
HP drops Windows 7 from 'Slate' tablet, will use WebOS - raganwald
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/05/02/hp_drops_windows_7_from_slate_tablet_will_use_webos_variant
======
swernli
I wish I could downvote articles. This is a shoddy regurgitation of the
Techcrunch article from last week, with slightly more formal language (and
thus misleading with its implied certainty). Let's compare:

Techcrunch: "But our source tells us that HP is not satisfied with Windows 7
as a tablet operating system and has terminated the project (something
CrunchGear mentioned months ago). HP may also be abandoning Intel-based
hardware for its slate lineup simply because it’s too power hungry. That would
also rule out Windows 7 as an operating system."

AfterDawn: "Sources say HP was not happy with the overall performance of
Windows 7 on their unreleased tablet, saying the OS was too power-hungry...
TechCrunch says also that HP is set to drop the Intel processor used in the
tablet, which would completely kill off any chance of Windows 7 being used."

Funny how the echo suddenly changes it to the OS being too power hungry
instead of the chipset, huh? It saddens me that this is how "news" often gets
reported. People keep repeating mistaken versions of what they heard without
doing any investigation of their own, until the facts get completely muddled.
It's like a giant game of telephone...

~~~
krschultz
It is a pretty awful article.

But isn't it Windows fault that it requires a power hungry x86 CPU? You can
run other OSes on multiple types of hardware and have your engineers pick the
best hardware for the device's needs. Or you decide "We're going with
Windows!" and now your engineers are trying to figure out how to stretch the
battery long enough to run this x86 CPU. If not for Windows being stuck on one
platform I don't think we would have ever had the Atom.

~~~
swernli
An interesting point, though I don't think it justifies the way the new
article chose to change the meaning of the original by rephrasing it.

I don't think it's just Windows that encourages x86 use; it's also the fact
that the ecosystem is richer for that chipset anyway (hardware compatibility
for things like the webcam and card reader come to mind). If you decide to go
with a linux distro on top of custom hardware, then you might have to develop
drivers yourself, as well as build up some UI paradigms customized for touch.
WebOS gives them a great starting point to do just that, so in the end their
actions still look consistent with their goals.

~~~
Kadin
> it's also the fact that the ecosystem is richer for that chipset anyway

Well, it's richer mainly _because_ that's the platform Windows runs on
exclusively (or near-exclusively; there are probably a few non-x86 Windows
installs out there still) and thus dominant. If you had more competition in
processor architectures I would expect that you would not have such an
unbalanced chipset and onboard-hardware ecosystem.

Also, I'm not really sure why things like webcams or card readers would depend
on processor arch; most webcams (even built-in laptop ones) that I've worked
with interface over USB. Same with most recent card readers. It's not like
they're plugged right into the FSB or anything.

------
ableal
Wishlist:

\- Pixel Qi or similar screen (<http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/the-
pixel-qi-display/> ). 1024x768 (instead of x600) would be nice.

\- Thrifty CPU/chipset (e.g. 1GHz ARM, etc.), for day-long battery.

\- Video out (e.g. mini-DP, for presentations, etc.)

\- Easy to install your own OS. Seems there's already Linux underneath WebOS;
if HP is not selling hardware at a loss, it might as well profit from
unsupported (software wise) customers ...

~~~
thmz
Sounds like the Adam from Notion Ink:
<http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php>

~~~
tsuraan
Except for the resolution (which is 1024x600 for that one as well). I don't
know how you can claim "Full High Definition Multimedia" without offering even
a 720p screen.

------
jimbokun
"Additionally, a Windows 7 license will bring up the price of any final Slate
product, and now that HP owns WebOS, the move makes sense."

"TechCrunch says also that HP is set to drop the Intel processor used in the
tablet, which would completely kill off any chance of Windows 7 being used."

This gives HP more negotiating leverage over Microsoft and Intel. Now that
they have their own OS they can put on new form factor devices, Microsoft will
have to give HP a good deal to get Windows on those devices. Windows is tied
pretty tightly to Intel, so owning WebOS gives them more flexibility in
processor architecture. Negotiating over new devices could lead to lower
prices from Microsoft and Intel all around.

This alone could justify the price they paid for Palm, over time.

~~~
loiuygthyujik
I can't see the price of Win7 license being an issue on a $550 PC. Normally
the pay-back for including anti-virus and other trialware is more than the OEM
windows license.

I suspect this is a negotiating point with Redmond. If MS is serious about
remaining relevent in the smartphone & table era - the price of a Win7 license
might well be negative.

~~~
ptomato
Yes, because HP will totally think it's a good idea to continue pre-installing
that shit on something they want to compete with the iPad.

~~~
loiuygthyujik
You think HP care about the customer experience!!!!!!!

HP has been the graveyard of a lot of OSes - VMS, HPUX, Tru64, Compaq, Tandem
now BEOS and WebOS

~~~
ptomato
That's quite a lot of exclamation points.

And I just think it's possible that HP is finally getting a clue. Buying Palm
is a good sign, because really, why _else_ would they buy it if they're not
planning on actually using WebOS?

------
Keyframe
Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense for HP to take that cool billion
to microsoft for an initiative to further 7 for tablets... OR microsoft to buy
palm and further the initiative themselves? HPs business is not OS (we'll
leave HP-UX out of this).. I really see no point in them controlling their own
OS for devices like these, unless they want to open source it eventually or
something I'm not seeing.

~~~
rbanffy
Not a great idea to find development of an OS you don't control and that can
(and will) be used by your competitors.

By buying Palm, HP gets:

\- immunity from Apple lawsuits (through MAD)

\- a decent patent portfolio on the mobile space

\- a decent OS comparable to Apple's

\- a reasonable stick with which to coerce Microsoft

Not a bad deal, IMHO

~~~
Keyframe
I understand, but here is what they also get:

\- headache and commitment of OS maintenance and advancement on OS that nobody
but them uses \- virtually no app eco system

Basically what they are getting is bootstrapping an OS onto the market in
their own closed loop of hardware+OS which is an epic endeavor IMHO. They
don't have (anymore) tablet nor OS nor apps on the market and now they will
try to try to do all three at the same time. I was just saying it might have
been better to rely on someone whose job is OS rather than allocate resources
themselves.

~~~
glhaynes
Yeah, it sounds like webOS could make a great tablet OS. But I'm not sure
about the market reality... apps are so important on these things, and when
you've got iPad appealing to the design-centric crowd and Android appealing to
the open/hacker-crowd (and no doubt, soon a broader variety of hardware than
Apple will ever offer), what place is there for a third OS unless it's leaps
and bounds better than one of those two competitors?

Considering it in comparison to the PC market: iPad has both the
"cool/design/ease-of-use" of the Mac and the large 3rd party app market of
Windows; Android has the openness/choice/capability of Linux. Those both seem
to have a very obvious niche and I'd think will continue to see much success.
So what room is there for a 3rd OS? And it doesn't help any that Microsoft's
going to want a big chunk of 3rd place, too...

Still, it's nice to see more vendors attempting to sell/take responsibility
for "the whole widget".

~~~
blasdel
WebOS is a real Linux, it uses vanilla kernels (close to stock linux-omap, the
hardware platform is basically a beagleboard), standard drivers, and a
mainstream userland with glibc, gstreamer, pulseaudio, etc.

Android is none of that. It's a Linux that's been bludgeoned to death by
Sidekick developers, and then run through the meat grinder by a bunch of
Taiwanese hardware idiots. Everything their code had to touch directly was
needlessly reimplemented in boggling ways that are neither useful nor
portable.

The fucking iPhone is more recognizably Unix than Android is! You get about as
much of the "openness/choice/capability" of the Linux kernel on Android as you
do with a TiVO.

------
mark_l_watson
Who could not have predicted this, after the Palm acquisition?

I love my Droid phone and was thinking that a tablet droid (no phone service,
just Wifi) would be really nice. The HP tablet with WebOS will also be worth
considering.

I read that in a few years that half of Internet use will be mobile devices so
HP's acquisition of Palm may prove to be a good gamble.

------
lurch_mojoff
As you were everyone - "...sources say..."

------
evo_9
This is just awesome news. All my initial excitement about webOS is coming
back now that it's not turning into (hopefully) another BeOS situation. Kudos
to HP, I want one bad!

~~~
bradlane
it's funny you mention BeOS, since it's now/will be HP's with the Palm
acquisition.

~~~
Teese
BeOS is believed to have gone to of Palm in the hardware/software split. That
means ACCESS owns Be.

------
jsz0
WebOS should make a nice tablet platform but I think HP is still going to face
an uphill battle building up good third party applications if they don't take
a more active role. HP needs to throw some money at developers. There just
aren't enough WebOS devices out there for support to happen naturally. 1%-2%
of the sticker price for Palm going into developers pockets would greatly
improve the situation.

------
Auzy83
Drops Windows 7? More like RUMORED to do so.

Please use accurate headlines people... Unless you want hacker-news to become
like Digg?

------
stcredzero
HP should host webOS on Android. That could give them an app ecosystem that
can draw from JavaScript and Android together.

------
mattmaroon
Sigh. I have a Pre and I love it, but I don't want a bigger one. I want
Windows 7 on a tablet (if any tablet at all). I want access to Roboform and
Zumodrive and Dropbox and Trillian and full fledged Outlook/Exchange. I want
Flash so I can play Facebook games (oddly more for work-related reasons).

I can't imagine trying to use a browser without Roboform for anything other
than the most casual Googling on the go. All my media is in the cloud in Zumo.

------
jrockway
The only thing worse than being in distant second place is being in distant
third place. HP is weird, their laptops aren't the best, their netbooks aren't
the best, and now they are rolling out tablets with a proprietary, untested
operating system. My prediction: fail.

~~~
kevingadd
In the event that they use WebOS, How is Linux more 'proprietary' than Windows
7? How is it untested when it's shipping on real phones right now?

~~~
jrockway
Where can I download the WebOS source code? Where is a WebOS-only laptop that
I can test?

~~~
jmtulloss
<http://opensource.palm.com/packages.html>

~~~
jrockway
That's not the WebOS source code, that's their hacked version of ALSA (etc.)

~~~
ori_b
Yes, that's what webos is built from: alsa, the linux kernel, webcore, etc.
It's a linux that contains those packages, customized for their hardware.

You might as well complain "I wanted a forest, but all I got were a bunch of
trees!"

~~~
Auzy83
Well, we also have the base of OSX (Darwin). Does that mean it's useful? NOPE.
Because all the core libraries (and aqua) are missing.

The packages provided by WebOS are useless too. It's built from a lot more
than that.

Anyway, it's just some silly rumor masquerading as fact. It's more likely HP
will offer something like expressgate, and offer 2 OS's, so that people can
use WebOS for basic tasks, and Windows 7 for complex ones (at the cost of
greater battery usage).

