
On Self-Delusion and Bounded Rationality (2001) - jeremynixon
http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/selfdelusion.html
======
lukas099
"Actually, I was asking you if you wanted to see a play with me. It was your
sick mind that went straight to fucking. I can see that I don't really want to
have anything to do with you anymore, since you don't know how to have a
normal human conversation. See you in class."

Have some self-respect, man.

------
overpaidgoogler
_Despite his verbal ineptitude, at six-foot-two Eric is one of the more
desirable seniors, and many sophomores would, I suppose, have been flattered
by the attention... [I asked] "What you're saying is tantamount to saying that
you want to fuck me. So why shouldn't I react with revulsion precisely as
though you'd said the latter?"_

If she found him attractive, why would she react with revulsion at the
suggestion of sex. The problem is not with rationality, but rather with her
half hearted commitment to it. If you are going to think critically about the
true meaning of asking someone on a date, then you should also think
critically about the true reasons why asking for sex directly is considered
rude.

------
gernerz
It should be noted that this is fiction, but still a very interesting read.

~~~
ctdonath
Having read the intro, methinks I'll wait for a few more positive reviews
before taking it further. Not sure I want to get that far into the mind of
someone that crass & abusive.

Don't get me wrong. On our third date (being 5 hours apart in different
countries, getting together was...difficult), my future wife asked "so what
are we doing?" Having been considering the same thing, and whether to tell her
unprompted, I proceeded to explain that our brief but deep discussions showed
me she might be someone I'd like to spend the rest of my life with.

The subject can be well addressed without getting rude & crude immediately.
Two people _can_ "get to the point" politely.

~~~
gernerz
That part was extremely cringy. But I think that was intentional.

------
ctchocula
"Ah, yet is not dancing merely a vertical expression of a horizontal desire?"

I thought this line extremely witty. The part on love and how Richard Dawkins
can be considered a Type-0 genius but a Type-1-and-higher retard was also
quite fascinating.

------
pazimzadeh
The beginning of this reads like it was written by a 13 year old but it turns
out that is intentional and the essay is worth reading as a whole.

~~~
evo_9
I think you mean ends like it was written by a 13 year old, which was one of
many devices the author used to show the devolving intellectualism of the main
character. At the start her language/grammar skills are impeccable. By the
end, yes, it's typical teen speak, broken grammar, nonexistent punctuation,
etc.

~~~
DannoHung
I think both parts sound like they're written by a thirteen year old. First
with the force of mind of someone convinced they are right and know more than
everyone else, and then with the uncritical eye of someone who accepts
everything. Two sides of a thirteen year old unable to reconcile the
irrationality of human existence in a world made of matter. An adolescent who
cannot accept the contradiction of worldviews that makes for a balanced life.

~~~
pazimzadeh
Agreed. The first part reminds me of my high school years as an atheist, when
I knew that I was right and thought it was my job to enlighten everyone else.

------
joe_the_user
It's fictional exploration of the intersection of everyday interactions and
concepts of truth.

When I read this kind of thing, I usually seems to me that it's bringing out
how people generally stumble on a whole range of philosophical and moral
assumptions inherited from the Western philosophical tradition when they start
talking about "telling the truth".

A simple "riposte" to the fictional "What you're saying is tantamount to
saying that you want to fuck me. So why shouldn't I react with revulsion
precisely as though you'd said the latter"

\- "Well, the niceties here might be called 'protocol' \- I'm not definitely
saying that X but rather beginning a 'handshaking' process that may let us do
that if each of us are comfortable with. Protocols are what grease social
interactions. Which is to be say that if a mature adult is disgusted by a guy
saying 'I'd like to fuck you', it's because they are inherently disgusted by
sex but rather they're disgusted by someone making an intimate demand with no
protocol, IE making the demand at the wrong time"

Which is to say our everyday interactions don't involve the rational
constructs of true-false logic but rather are more like game-theoretic
maneuvers.

And for the last question, "You're saying you wouldn't fuck me right now", the
answer would be "So you're saying you would like to know all of my reactions
to a rather extreme hypothetical situations, without say, letting me know any
of your reactions. Well, that's what protocol is for, letting two people
demonstrate their range of range reactions equally, so one person's maneuvers
aren't just available for the other to use without that first person getting
compensation".

But anyway, the thing that makes the hypothetical girl's actions compelling is
that however out-of-line they might be, they are using the true-views coming
from Plato - statement are either true or false, their truth or falsehood
doesn't depend on circumstance, etc. Of course, if you view the "I'd like to
take you to see a play" thing as protocol, then the game is just silly.

\-- And this is to say that the hypothetical solutions to the dilemma just dig
the hole deeper by trying to modify mathematical logic for inappropriate
purposes.

Instead, I'd recommend an evolutionary-game theoretic approach to
understanding everyday interactions.

See:
[https://books.google.com/books/about/Game_Theory_Evolving.ht...](https://books.google.com/books/about/Game_Theory_Evolving.html?id=XuqhzQb3pmgC&hl=en)

~~~
gernerz
I think there is a lot more to the story than just what was in the first bit.
Very interesting analysis of that part though!

~~~
joe_the_user
Well,

It's a fairly complete solution (imho) to the dilemmas in the first part,
which is to say that I don't find the failed-efforts at solution contained in
later part to be that interesting.

------
azraomega
reminds me of harry potter and the methods of rationality

~~~
amatus
Thanks for mentioning it. I love Eliezer Yudkowsky‘s writings on quantum
physics. I look forward to reading this:
[http://hpmor.com/](http://hpmor.com/)

~~~
azraomega
woo. goldmine! thanks! :-)

