
The Hard Truth About Boiled Eggs (2014) - MrJagil
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/the-secrets-to-peeling-hard-boiled-eggs.html
======
AceJohnny2
Tangentially, I recently bought Kenji's new book [1], and my friends and I
have been having tremendous fun reading through and trying out the recipes
therein. Kenji's empirical approach and attention to the science behind
cooking (not to mention sassy writing) really appeals to our inner geeks.

[http://www.amazon.com/The-Food-Lab-Cooking-
Through/dp/039308...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Food-Lab-Cooking-
Through/dp/0393081087)

~~~
ThePhysicist
I really hope that the book uses metric units. I recently read "The Science of
Good Cooking", which was interesting but unfortunately used US units
throughout, which makes it quite unscientific in my opinion.

"On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee is another great book about the
chemistry of cooking, and I especially like it since it doesn't try hard to be
hip or cool as opposed to some other books about cooking chemistry I could
name.

~~~
ThePhysicist
Since this is getting downvoted a lot by "imperialists":

I do not say that one cannot work scientifically using non-metric units, I'm
just saying that it has a non-scientific appeal since even in the US
scientific publications normally use SI units (kg, m, s) since they are well
defined and easy to calculate with.

Imperial units, on the contrary, are based on the length of body parts and
sticks or the volume of some arbitrary measurement cup. Granted, the meter is
a bit arbitrary as well (but at least based on the geometry of the planet),
but the nice thing about metric units is that they can be converted easily:
100 cm = 1 m, 1000 m = 1 km. 1000 g = 1 kg. Try that with inches, feet, yards
and miles.

So I really stay with my assessment that working in non-metric/SI units is
contradictory to professional scientific work.

~~~
AceJohnny2
Good thing he's a professional american cook, not a professional scientist.

~~~
ThePhysicist
Again, I'm not trying to devalue the work of the author here, I just say that
his choice of units is non-scientific.

------
mkesper
Be careful with statistics: In this experiment, 3000 eggs were boiled, showing
a difference of 10% versus 12% cracked eggs with/without pricking before
cooking.

Statistically, this does not have _any significance_ at all, though:
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.wdr.de%2Ffernsehen%2Fwissen%2Fquarks%2Fsendungen%2Fei132.html&edit-
text=&act=url) (Sorry, that translation is hilarious).

~~~
tokenadult
From the article: "Here's the truth: there is no 100% fool-proof method, and
anybody who tells you different is selling something. And I do believe I've
tried them all, many, many times over. The number of eggs I've boiled over the
last several years in carefully controlled circumstances numbers well into the
thousands, but despite that, the best boiled egg I cooked this year is no
better than the best boiled egg I cooked twelve years ago in that Beacon Hill
kitchen."

------
optymizer
II am a big fan of soft-boiled eggs and I've always thought this was common
knowledge since my mom taught me how to prepare them when I was young.

My recipe:

1\. Boil water 2\. Place eggs in boiling water 3\. Cook eggs for 5 minutes 4\.
Place pot with eggs in the sink and let cold water run to replace the hot
water, don't let the water get warm in the pot. 5\. Wait for eggs to cool for
a few minutes 6\. Peel eggs easily now.

Total time: about 15 minutes

~~~
forgetsusername
> _Cook eggs for 5 minutes_

Thing is, it's difficult to apply a _time_ to the process. Different stoves,
different water starting temperature, different pots..these these will all
affect how quickly you can cook the eggs.

I think it's a matter of having some idea, some "recipe", and tweaking it.
Currently I warm my eggs by running them under tap water, then put them in the
water on the stove, set a time for 14 minutes, bring the water to a boil, turn
it down to medium, remove from stove when timer elapses.

It works for me. Judging by the article, and the comments, almost no two
people do the same thing.

~~~
HeXetic
> Different stoves, different water starting temperature, different
> pots..these these will all affect how quickly you can cook the eggs.

No matter what model of stove or pot or starting temperature you have, water
boils at 100C* . If the water is supposed to be boiling the whole time, the
5-minute cook time is completely repeatable.

You understand that it is physically impossible to have liquid water above
100C without applying pressure, yes?

* Depending on atmospheric pressure.

~~~
forgetsusername
> _No matter what model of stove or pot or starting temperature you have,
> water boils at 100C_

And? Does water boil instantly, or are there factors that can affect how long
it takes to get water to boil? Things like, say, your stove, pot and starting
water temperature.

> _You understand that it is physically impossible to have liquid water above
> 100C without applying pressure, yes?_

Wow, thanks for the physics lesson.

I was referring to the OP stating "the process" takes X minutes from start to
finish. Well, different stoves are going to heat water at different rates.
Colder water from the tap will take longer to heat that warmer water from the
tap. When I'm the one cooking my eggs, these things matter. Time-from-boil
isn't relevant to me when I'm getting ready in the morning.

Learn to tame your nerd-rage and give people the benefit of the doubt that
they aren't as stupid as you think.

------
ryandamm
Kenji is awesome, and probably the best reason to read seriouseats. But for
anyone who enjoys food science, you really have to start with Harold McGee's
classic "On Food and Cooking":

[http://smile.amazon.com/Food-Cooking-Science-Lore-
Kitchen/dp...](http://smile.amazon.com/Food-Cooking-Science-Lore-
Kitchen/dp/0684800012/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446716055&sr=8-1&keywords=on+food+and+cooking)

(Sorry for the enormous URL.)

Also, I binge-listen to Dave Arnold's podcast, "Cooking Issues" on Heritage
Radio network. A treasure trove of food science facts, going well beyond eggs:
sous vide meat, hydrocolloids, liquid nitrogen cocktails, etc.

[http://heritageradionetwork.org/series/cooking-
issues/](http://heritageradionetwork.org/series/cooking-issues/)

(You really have to give the show a chance, though -- it's very
conversational, and less... polished than your typical show.)

Also, anyone interested in food science should really consider an iSi whipper
for booze infusion and other experimentation. No really, please do it, your
life will be better (or at least boozier):

[http://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=4463.html](http://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=4463.html)

(Arnold has progressed the technique a lot since then, but this primer is
pretty good nonetheless. The FCI blog is basically dead; the podcast and
Twitter are his current outlets.)

But yeah, I screw around in the kitchen a lot (though cook less _useful_ food
than my wife does). Pressure cooker, weird enzymes, hydrocolloids... but the
iSi whipper booze-infusion technique is my all-time favorite kitchen hack. You
can drink toasted hazelnut bourbon in a Manhattan like, six minutes from now!
(I hope it's nighttime when you read this.) Four minutes to microwave toast
the nuts, plus two minutes to nitrous-infuse them. You might want to chop them
in between and filter through a coffee filter after.

Sorry, my nerd is showing. I hate eggs, especially boiled eggs, but this post
hit a fun nerve for me.

~~~
bambax
_On Food and Cooking_ is a great book (and so much cheaper than Myhrvold's
_Modernist Cuisine_ \-- although there's a "light" version of this which is
quite good).

Never heard about the iSi infusion technique before now, but am going to try
it straight away! Thanks! ;-)

~~~
dagw
If you're just primarily interested in quick and helpful cooking tips and less
interested in the background history, anthropology and science that On Food
and Cooking covers, you really should take a look at McGee's other book Keys
to Good Cooking. It is a collection of useful techniques and tips broken down
by ingredient.

Or to put it in HN terms. If On Food and Cooking as comprehensive guide to the
fundamentals of computer science, then Keys to Good Cooking is Javascript: The
Good Parts

~~~
lfowles
And which would be an analogue to The Javascript Cookbook?

(I'll show myself out)

------
mikekchar
There is one method he didn't mention. Put the egg in a pot. Cover with cold
water. Bring to a boil. Turn off the heat and cover. Wait 10 minutes. Shock
cool immediately under running water.

I only boil eggs now and again, but I have a 100% success rate on peeling with
this method. I also don't do anything special while peeling. Just crack the
shell any old way and peel it. Never once had a marred surface. Never once had
dimples in the eggs (probably the shock cooling, as he suggested).

Some variables: Gas stove on medium high heat. At sea level (well, technically
4 meters above sea level...). Very fresh eggs (probably only 2-3 days on
average). Eggs started at room temperature (although exactly once I started
with a cold egg with no perceived difference).

I'd be interested to see if anyone else has used this technique.

~~~
samstave
This is the best egg toaster, I have this and love it:

[http://www.amazon.com/West-Bend-TEM500W-Muffin-
Toaster/dp/B0...](http://www.amazon.com/West-Bend-TEM500W-Muffin-
Toaster/dp/B008YNFB3Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446747309&sr=8-1&keywords=toast+and+egg+toaster)

------
rickdale
I own a hard boil egg maker. Takes less than 20 minutes to make 7 perfect hard
boiled eggs. If I am patient enough to wait another 20 minutes after that the
eggs peel perfectly and are still warm and delicious.

[http://www.amazon.com/KRUPS-F23070-Cooker-Indicator-
capacity...](http://www.amazon.com/KRUPS-F23070-Cooker-Indicator-
capacity/dp/B00005KIRS)

~~~
kobayashi
Contraptions that are single-purpose and do their job well are defensible,
IMHO, yet I still dislike the space and specialized cleaning requirements of
devices like this.

~~~
logfromblammo
My household hard-cooks all of our eggs in a rice cooker with a steamer tray
insert (Zojirushi NHS-10). The cooking time is set by the amount of water you
add. We mainly err on the side of overcooked (more water), because nobody
likes soft yolks.

The rice cooker and convection/toaster oven have been the two most universally
useful appliances in our kitchen, and they are both still operational after an
average of 15 years in service. Other gadgets have come and gone, and they
remain. They have even outlasted four microwave ovens, three slow-cookers, and
one full-sized range-top oven.

A rice cooker is useful enough in every home kitchen that I consider it a dire
omission that they didn't even get a mention in the article. Ours can cook a
dozen eggs in 15 minutes, most of that time can be spent doing something else,
and there's no boiling water to pour out.

~~~
ctb_mg
Just to add, Zojirushi are top of the line rice cookers and I would expect
that they outlast most other appliances.

------
pedalpete
I once did a day cooking class with Herve This (the Godfather of Molecular
Gastronomy) and he talked of cooking eggs in a 'boiled style' in an oven on
low heat.

His comment was that the oven style at low heat allowed a restaurant to cook a
large quantity of eggs and have a consistent product which would be good over
the course of a few hours.

------
zwily
I eat a lot of boiled eggs, and this is what I've been using for the past 6
months:

Nordic Ware Microwave Egg Boiler
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007M2BN0](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007M2BN0)

Works surprisingly well, consistent, etc. it basically steams them.

------
jschwartzi
I have a Betty Crocker cookbook from the sixties that gives exactly the same
cooking advice, right down to time, boiling start, and shocking in ice water.

------
jerf
If the pressure cooker is inferior to boiling water, I wonder if that means
the optimal temperature is actually below boiling. Perhaps a sous vide setup
could be even better. Be a fun experiment for someone to run.

It also occurs to me that there is significant evidence of numerous "cooking
myths" that lasted for decades or centuries before falling to the first person
to finally put them to the test. Seems like fertile ground for some
interesting high school science projects that could get some interesting
results.

~~~
gvb
Optimum temperature from TFA:

Egg white:

* At 180 degrees: The main protein in egg whites—ovalbumen—will cross-link and solidify, giving you a totally firm egg white (see the whites of the 7 and 9 minute eggs).

Egg yolks, on the other hand, follow a different set of temperatures:

* At 145 degrees: They begin to thicken and set up.

* At 158 degrees: They become totally firm, but are still bright orange and shiny.

\----

A sous vide setup might work, but it probably isn't worth the effort for eggs.
You would want to set the temperature to 145..158 degrees, depending on your
desired yoke consistency and then drop the egg in boiling water to finish the
whites to 180 degrees.

TBD is whether the 145 degree sous vide temperature hurts peel-ability
(likely) and how long to cook the egg to finish the whites properly without
overcooking the yoke.

~~~
jerf
"You would want to set the temperature to 145..158 degrees, depending on your
desired yoke consistency and then drop the egg in boiling water to finish the
whites to 180 degrees."

I was unclear about what I was thinking. I was thinking using the sous vide
hardware to prep water at 200F or 190F and try boiling in that, since trying
to maintain that temperature by hand is very hard, or at least, very labor
intensive. But my failure to communicate that well produced another
interesting strategy from you.

And I have to admit I'm more searching for perfection in the abstract sense
than interested in changing how I cook them. If perfect turns out to be
"individually microwave the egg for 6 seconds, then cook in sous vide bath at
185F for six minutes, then boil for 3 more, then dump in ice bath
immediately"... yeah, I'm not going to do that. But I'm intellectually
curious.

~~~
gvb
The basis of sous vide is to cook the meat to the desired level of "doneness"
(directly related to temperature of the inside of the steak) and then sear the
outside. Searing the outside is mostly decoupled from the inside cooking
because it happens fast and thus only on the very outside layer of the meat.

I mapped this strategy directly to eggs, but it probably would work poorly.
With a steak, "sear the outside to your preference" is easy. With an egg,
"cook the whites without overcooking the yoke" is likely to be difficult.

Your suggested method of using the bath to maintain the water temperature
would probably work well and probably result in less "rubbery" whites, but
probably is overkill compared to maintaining the water temperature at 212
degrees (trivial) and control cooking via time per the article (and
tradition). Plus you would have to boil 3,000 eggs to scientifically establish
the new cook times. ;-)

------
ThrustVectoring
I'm lazy to a fault, and I cook eggs by cracking them into a bowl of water and
nuking it in the microwave until done. No peeling, no cleaning up the pot,
much less waiting.

------
adamconroy
Strange. Maybe I don't do it that often, but I don't recall having much
trouble peeling hard boiled eggs. My method is to boil them for desired time,
run cold water over them for a bit, then drop them gently on the bench
probably 3-5 times per egg so that the shell is consistently shattered, then
peel. Maybe the problem is that I can't get fresh eggs.

~~~
adamconroy
On the other hand, getting a perfect soft boiled egg so that the whites are
cooked but the yolk is completely runny is something I struggle with. I
probably get about 1 in 3 perfect. I use a timer of course, but then the size
of the egg seems matter and goodness knows what else.

~~~
4ad
I've found that steaming them makes this much more consistent:
[https://www.americastestkitchen.com/recipes/7279-soft-
cooked...](https://www.americastestkitchen.com/recipes/7279-soft-cooked-eggs)

Sorry for the paywall (I hate that!), there's an official youtube video you
can watch for free, but I can't find it now. (Youtube history doesn't have
search!)

------
geomark
What he says about the age of the egg is contrary to my experience. I usually
get fresh eggs from the farmers market and they peel easier than the store
bought eggs which aren't as fresh. Maybe it's the fact that the eggs here
aren't washed - they can be kept at room temperature quite a long time, no
refrigeration needed.

~~~
Jedd
The washing is an important and fascinating distinction.

I'm in Australia, and as I understand it the unwashed egg is the default in
most parts of the world (certainly here and in the UK, and I think in most of
the EU). In the US the default is a washed product.

But (!) this is why the default in the US is to have eggs refrigerated from
soon after they leave the farm - and they need to remain refrigerated. IIRC
this is because eggs that come from ~3C back to room temperature (~21C) will
condense, and on washed eggs this massively increases the risk of pathogens
penetrating the eggs.

On non-washed eggs, this is less of a concern - but here we still recommend to
not relocate eggs from the fridge to room temperature unless we're about to
eat them. The membrane, though, will prevent spoilage of eggs that haven't
been washed (or refrigerated) for weeks, if not months, if kept at a
reasonable room temperature. (I qualify reasonable as here in AU room
temperature in summer can often reach 35C.)

~~~
geomark
I am originally from the U.S. and when I came to Thailand I was initially
taken aback by the sight of eggs being left out for days or weeks at a time.
But they don't spoil. I later learned about the washing affect. Also, it's
predominately brown eggs over here. Not sure if that makes a difference. At
least as far as appearances go, unwashed brown eggs don't look as dirty as
unwashed white eggs.

------
peterwwillis
Actually, the easiest way to peel eggs is with a spoon. I use this method on
new eggs, old eggs, cold eggs, hot eggs, soft-boiled, medium-boiled and hard-
boiled. As long as you push the spoon against the inside of the shell only and
move slowly, you can get the whole thing in about 30-60 seconds.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV9ytMg_fi4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV9ytMg_fi4)

------
a_c
Of all the egg tutorials, none of them address the amount of water they used
in boiling the egg. It is hardly convincing that the amount of boiling water
won't affect the final product. The temperature of water might change once the
egg is dropped in depending how large the pool is. Would love to see a
comparison of using different pool size

~~~
tr352
That, and the temperature of the egg itself. Did it come from the refrigerator
or is it at room temperature? Furthermore, not every egg has the same size or
weight.

~~~
bwohlergo
the temperature has been addressed in that article.

~~~
tr352
True but I am European and therefore, as mentioned in the article, often store
my eggs at room temperature. The hardness of a cooked egg is a function of the
size and/or weight of the egg, the cooking time _and_ the temperature of the
egg.

------
kijin
I've been using this method [1] successfully for several months now. Instead
of cracking the shell and then peeling under water, you take both steps at the
same time by cracking the shell _in_ the water!

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkWISKfgqZ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkWISKfgqZ0)

------
mironathetin
Very funny and useful.

Seems that the scientific method can and should be applied to nearly
everything successfully :o).

~~~
treehau5
You would very much enjoy the book, "The Science of Good Cooking" by the same
folks who do the show "Americas Test Kitchen"

------
bash-j
Big fan of Kenji's food lab work. I like his trial and error methods of
finding the facts. From him I've learned to steam my eggs, bash and brine my
chicken, and the right way to cook a steak, not that I eat much red meat
anymore - too expensive!.

------
gadders
I would just say that for people that love eating eggs, if you have the space
get a couple of chickens. They are about as hard to look after as rabbits, and
once you have proper, fresh eggs you won't go back to store-bought.

~~~
MC7447a
> once you have proper, fresh eggs you won't go back to store-bought.

Placebo

[http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-eggs-
ca...](http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-eggs-cage-free-
organic-omega-3s-grocery-store-brand-the-food-lab.html)

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2010/06...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2010/06/01/AR2010060100792.html)

~~~
Spooky23
Not really. Cage free vs. caged or organic corn vs. non-organic corn is a feel
good thing.

It all depends on what they eat. Both articles actually say this, but bury it
for some reason.

Hens in a barnyard eating high quality feed supplemented by insects, etc have
a different flavor and texture than hens just fed feed. "Eggland's best" taste
different because they are supplemented with flax.

Similar phenomena exists with beef and pork. Grass fed beef tastes different
due to more Omega-3 in grass. Danish pork tastes a little different because
the pigs eat fish.

------
PepeGomez
>As you can see, not one of them is a perfect hard-cooked egg: the eggs go
directly from having slightly translucent centers to having rubbery whites.

This happens when you cut them in half when they're still hot. The trick is to
let them sit in the water until it cools down after cooking, or at least don't
cut them until they cool down considerably.

------
Sealy
>But of course, there's still a lot of eggsplaining to do.

Upvoting this share just because of this pun!

------
suprjami
Damn, I read this article a couple of weeks ago when making my own eggs.
Little did I know there was so much delicious HN karma to be had. I'll just
submit every site I visit in future.

