
Helsinki Tries Self-Driving Buses in Real Traffic - denzil_correa
http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/helsinki-tries-selfdriving-buses-in-real-traffic
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ptaipale
These "buses" are actually about the size of a minivan (9 persons fit in),
they travel on a route with not much frequent traffic at a maximum 11 km/h,
and there is always an attendant monitoring them, although he/she shouldn't
need to drive.

They were trialed at a housing fair last year; there they traveled in a closed
area not open to other vehicles.

Finnish law does not state anywhere that a vehicle must have a driver, so this
trial is legally not that challenging.

It might turn out to be challenging technically; the local metro was supposed
to be driverless now (like Docklands Light Railway was almost 30 years ago)
but that has been postponed indefinitely, and is a partial reason for a delay
in the extension of the metro line to the west which even has its own "is it
already ready" page akin to BER airport [3] and which messed up e.g. my public
transport connections.

The following links [1], [2] are in Finnish but there you have some more
pictures of the things.

[1] [https://forumvirium.fi/itseohjautuvat-robottibussit-
helsingi...](https://forumvirium.fi/itseohjautuvat-robottibussit-helsingin-
kaduille-sohjoa-hankkeessa/)

[2]
[http://yle.fi/uutiset/tassa_ne_tulevat_suomen_ensimmaiset_ro...](http://yle.fi/uutiset/tassa_ne_tulevat_suomen_ensimmaiset_robottibussit_kurvasivat_helsingin_liikenteeseen/9099002)

[3]
[http://www.onkolansimetrovalmis.com/](http://www.onkolansimetrovalmis.com/)

~~~
radarsat1
> there is always an attendant monitoring them

I actually highly question the efficacy of this approach. Humans are good at
driving (for some values of "good") partly (imho) because it is an active
task. As soon as we enter the "monitoring" zone, and not actively engaging in
the task, it is very easy to become quickly bored and have attentions wander
and miss important details, like getting too close to other traffic, veering
the wrong way, etc. This is not the fault of the person doing the monitoring
being bad at their job, but rather simply how humans work, and this needs to
be taken into account when designing systems that are automatic but "require
human monitoring."

Really, humans are better at the active task, and computers are better at
monitoring, but we are constantly trying to reverse these roles, sometimes to
dangerous effect.

~~~
sandworm101
Forgetting that this is a bus, it is still a confined space containing members
of the public. You need an attendant of some sort to deal with unusual
situations (ie fires). Even the most advanced and sensor-filled Disney ride
still requires a human being to monitor the behaviour of the other human
beings.

~~~
radarsat1
That is true. I've used the computer controlled metros in Paris often enough
and there don't seem to be too many problems but I suppose there are guards
around. As for buses, I find there are two cultures, either the bus driver has
some amount of responsibility for what happens on board his vehicle, answering
commuter questions, announcing stops, checking tickets etc., or he completely
dissociates, and just drives, sometimes not even being the one to check your
ticket. In the latter case you tend to have a lot more theft no buses. (In my
limited experience. I'd love to see data on that, actually.. although the
distinction is perhaps a bit hard to define.)

~~~
ptaipale
There's always the concern about calamitous fellow passengers.

This story concentrates on women suffering from perverts, but I expect that
most life-threatening violence is, as usual, experienced by men.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/will-the-night-tube-
pr...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/will-the-night-tube-protect-
women-against-public-transport-perve/)

------
tjic
"Their purpose is to supplement but not to replace”

The social behavior where person X lies because it's expected of them, and
everyone else pretends to believe the lie is...odd.

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dotcoma
Do we really need buses that go 7 mph? Bikes, anybody? Walking? (Or are these
buses intended for the elderly?)

~~~
gambiting
Helsinki can get as low as -30C in winter. I don't know if you've ever
experienced it, but if it's -15, -20C or lower, you really don't want to be
walking or cycling anywhere, the cold just bites through any clothing and it's
really uncomfortable on your face.

~~~
ptaipale
In -20C, I prefer biking to buses. (I live in Helsinki region).

You generate some heat when you ride, while when waiting for a bus...

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cm3
Do these need sensors to detect and adapt to icy roads in Helsinki?

~~~
Jommi
You would think so, as even snow messes most selfdriving setups right now.
Because of legislation, Finland is actually aiming to be the foreground of
testing for these kind of environments. "Lapland Proving Grounds" is building
a own highway in Lapland, just for test purposes.

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loeg
7 mph is pretty limiting. You can literally run to your destination faster.

