
Estonia e-residency application now online - sytze
http://apply.e-estonia.com/
======
Katre
Hi everyone, this is Katre from the communications team in the e-Residency
program. Thank you so much for your interest! We are proud to launch the first
government-backed digital identity in the world. Here in Estonia, we view the
e-Residency program as someting of a "governmental startup," and appreciate
your thoughts and feedback.

We will soon redirect the HTTP page to HTTPS (thanks for catching that!). For
now you can simply visit
[https://apply.e-estonia.com](https://apply.e-estonia.com). We are also
working to update the country lists.

After being approved as an e-Resident you are welcome to apply for a bank
account and payment providers. As noted on the site, we are working on easier
ways to facilitate this.

Benefits for US and global entrepreneurs include access to EU and European
markets, and truly hassle-free online company administration. We are working
on expanding services for individuals as well, which currently include two-
factor authentication, document signing, and encryption.

Thank you again -- we are truly excited to launch this programme in open beta
and welcome further questions at e-resident@gov.ee!

~~~
benkant
Calling this e-Residency is a mistake. It's confusing enough that a commenter
here was unsure if they were eligible because their country does not allow
dual citizenship.

It's a government identity you can apply for and use online that allows you to
register companies, among other things- right?

As an electronic resident of Estonia what are you entitled to that you can't
do in Singapore, Hong Kong, the UK, etc? The only difference I can see is that
in those places you likely need to visit the country to setup the company.
Those countries certainly wouldn't call that process airplane-Residency.

Electronic mail is mail that you send electronically. Here, e-Residency is not
residency in any definition of the word, even the ephemeral kind. An
e-Residency does not afford the bearer any entitlements not offered to a non-
bearer, save for not requiring a flight to Estonia.

That said, I appreciate the innovation in an online government ID card for
foreigners. The name is a mistake. More accurate would be to call it
e-Airplane.

As I haven't read everything about this, I'm willing to admit there's a chance
I'm wrong.

~~~
dragonwriter
Residency in the usual sense isn't the same thing as citizenship -- lots of
people are citizens of one country and residents of another.

And while the initial set of benefits don't seem a lot like residency (except
insofar as being eligible for a digital ID of this type -- in countries that
offer them -- is, itself, typically something that requires citizenship or
residency, so in a sense calling the program that provides access to it to
non-citizen non-physical-residents "e-residency" may be reasonable on that
basis alone), its overtly an initial "beta" set with planned expansion.

~~~
benkant
I'm aware of the difference between residency and citizenship, that's not the
issue. I deny what they are offering is typically something requiring
residency. Anecdotally- I don't have residency (or citizenship to be clear) in
Singapore but have government ID there I use for their services.

If they plan to expand the program to allow things typically afforded to
residents of a country then that would be something. I doubt it however.

------
yc1010
"0% company income tax means more money to invest"
[https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/services-and-
benefits/](https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/services-and-benefits/)

I dont get it, does this mean there is 0% corporation tax in Estonia? What are
the taxes on wages then as in if your estonian company pays you? What other
taxes should one be aware? what is the VAT rate

so many questions but their answer is "talk to a professional" which means
visiting Estonia, answering some of these questions up front would make things
clearer and make it easier to decide whether to apply for one

BTW has anyone here done it? a blog post on experiences pros and cons would be
great...

~~~
kasparloog
Yes, the corporate tax is 0%.

There is a dividend tax, making this business environment expecially lucrative
if your plan is to reinvest profits.

VAT is 20%

Income tax for physical person is 20% and the company has to pay on top of it
roughly 33% of social taxes. There's a plan in place to reduce social tax by
1%

No other catches.

~~~
geomark
Other than being able to establish a company in Estonia there doesn't seem to
be anything compelling about this. Those tax rates - 20% VAT and 33% social
taxes - are not friendly. You have to rely on a third party for a mailing
address just to open the company. And if you want to _try_ to open a bank
account you have to visit.

What is the attaction of this?

~~~
ddeck
_> Those tax rates - 20% VAT and 33% social taxes_

I would expect that VAT is only relevant for products sold to Estonian
residents and income/social tax only relevant if you employ residents of
Estonia.

Income tax is typically based on residency, I believe the US is the only
developed country in the world that taxes non-residents on income.

Disclaimer: I have not looked at Estonian tax law

~~~
reidrac
EU VAT doesn't work like that, Estonia is in the EU sigle market (and the
Euro).

[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_ta...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax)

You may be right in the income and social tax, but I suspect establishing a
business in Estonia may require visiting the country at some point.

~~~
ddeck
As I understood it, as of 2015 EU digital goods VAT must be paid based on the
VAT in the customers country, regardless of whether the sellers business is
located inside or outside the EU.

If so, what's the downside of having your business based in Estonia vs the US
with respect to VAT?

~~~
jarek-foksa
If you and your small business are based in the US then you could ignore the
VAT nonsense when selling to the customers from the EU [1]. It's not in the
interest of the IRS to make you pay taxes in Europe.

[1] [http://www.happybootstrapper.com/2014/im-us-whatll-happen-
ju...](http://www.happybootstrapper.com/2014/im-us-whatll-happen-just-ignore-
eu-vat-changes/)

------
Katre
Hi everyone, this is Katre from the communications team in the e-Residency
program. Thank you very much for letting us know about the HTTP and form
submission errors -- we were able to resolve the issue 6-8 hours after
receiving your feedback. We are still working on the country lists, and hope
to have an update shortly.

Please stay tuned for news on .ee domain registration! :)

Thank you again! We appreciate your interest in the world's first
transnational government-backed digital identity, and hope to continue this
level of quick feedback and support. Please keep sending us bug fixes and
feature suggestions!

------
mhuffman
I've read the "about" and "services and benefits" pages, and still don't get
it. Why would anyone (from the US, for example) be interested in this?

~~~
draugadrotten
"To this point, foreigners have found it complicated to participate in
managing Estonian companies. The e-resident’s digital ID provides the needed
flexibility"

[http://www.grantthornton.ee/infokiri/en/the-digital-e-
reside...](http://www.grantthornton.ee/infokiri/en/the-digital-e-residency-
card-for-whom-why-and-how/)

------
Joona
Interestingly the application page/subdomain is not HTTPS, but the main site
is.

~~~
sushimako
Maybe the mods can change the submission's URL to
[https://apply.e-estonia.com/](https://apply.e-estonia.com/)

------
zura
Is it possible to publish paid apps on Google Play store with this? From the
unsupported country (While Estonia is supported as a merchant country).

~~~
monort
I think you will need to register an Estonian company. You can do it online
after getting e-residency card:
[https://ettevotjaportaal.rik.ee/index.py?chlang=eng](https://ettevotjaportaal.rik.ee/index.py?chlang=eng)

------
siscia
Other than taxes, what are the cost associate with having a company in estonia
?

Has any of you already open one ? How was the experience ?

------
siilats
Hey everyone, I am an Estonian entrepreneur residing in Silicon Valley and can
set an Estonian company up for you. As a U.S. resident you are subject to
controlled foreign corporation taxation if US residents own over 50 pct of
Estonian corporation, but there are ways around it. If you are a minority
owner you need to understand how the boards work with the b-card system
(digital board of directors). Reading congressional testimony on how apple
avoids taxes describes a system of avoiding CFC. Estonian eresidency is a cost
effective way to implement it. I am at keith@siilats.com

~~~
beagle3
> As a U.S. resident you are subject to controlled foreign corporation
> taxation if US residents own over 50 pct of Estonian corporation, but there
> are ways around it.

I have no idea what "ways around it" you might be referring to - but
generally, unless it is an IRS accepted structure, even if it is compliant
with the letter of the law, you can expect tens of thousands of dollars in
costs of proving that compliance if you are audited.

I recommend everyone who considers this option to get a really good
international tax professional on board. Those are hard to find, and very
expensive - but totally worth every penny.

------
ajdlinux
Have submitted my application - I'm not planning on starting any businesses
right now, though it's a possibility in the future. More interested in how the
Estonian government is actually experimenting with technology in a way that
other countries are yet to try - am hoping for more services to become
available eventually.

(To be fair, they also do internet voting, which I'm not a huge fan of...)

------
koyote
A bit disappointed that the combo box for citizenship has 'Great Britain'
instead of 'United Kingdom'.

~~~
viraptor
Why? I mean, I know the difference between them, but why was it disappointing?

~~~
nicksellen
The full name of the country is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland" \- calling it "Great Britain" is just wrong (it excludes Northern
Ireland and all other smaller islands). You would also hope an official
website can get it correct.

Although entire languages get it wrong - in German the UK is translated as
"Großbritannien". Edit: they do have translation for UK ("Vereinigtes
Königreich") but I've never heard it said/written yet... I think I'll start
using it.

A worse version is when "England" is used to refer to the UK. It's very
common, maybe less so in official contexts.

~~~
Tomte
No, calling it "England" is totally fine.

Just as we call The Netherlands "Holland".

Or the United States "Amerika".

~~~
ghostberry
It really, really isn't.

~~~
Tomte
I really, really hate, when people try to force other people to speak in the
specific manner they are speaking.

You have no right to demand that.

Additionally, you have no idea about the connotations. You may find it
offensive, but it is not. Not at all.

~~~
k-mcgrady
It's not offensive. Of course it's not. It's just blatantly incorrect. Your
taking a group of 4 countries + some islands and referring to them by one of
the 4 countries names. It'll confuse people. They now have to think: when he
says 'England' does he actually mean England - which would be the obvious
meaning - or is he one of those people that has no understanding of geography
and is actually referring to a group of several countries? If you refuse to
use the correct terminology, even when you are very obviously wrong, you're
just confusing people unnecessarily.

~~~
Tomte
It doesn't confuse people.

This distinction has traditionally never been very important in Germany, so
people didn't habitually make the distinction.

That's exactly the point: you have no idea about usage and connotations in
German, but still consider yourself an expert who should have the power to
prescribe a foreign language.

As an aside: we're also lumping together (dancing) balls and (foot)balls. And
lots of other things.

And how do we survive that? Context.

~~~
k-mcgrady
This is the first Germany has been brought up in the conversation. At no point
was I discussing use in languages other than English and at no point did I
argue that. It seems you argument has fallen apart and you have resorted to
changing it.

~~~
Tomte
That's wrong.

I was clearly replying to "Although entire languages get it wrong - in German
[...]".

The poster I was replying to was claiming that other languages are _wrong_.

And I resent your accusations.

~~~
nicksellen
The political country I have citizenship in has a name, it's written on my
passport - it is not "England".

Maybe you can see the problem if I explain it in this way: you can become
British (meaning "UK-ish"), but you cannot become English.

Not only is it technically wrong, but it also contributes to perpetuating the
dominance of England over the other parts of the UK.

I try to clear midconceptions/misunderstands of other countries when I know
better, I would invite you to do the same now you know more :)

Hopefully I can soothe some your resentment of my accusation too - I have been
learning about Germany and the forms it existed in before the unification of
the states in 1871 - the culture goes back a lot further than this, I am
currently learning German and planning an extended tour by bicycle (when I
have learnt enough) so I can get more deeply into this topic.

------
siilats
Being eresident means you get a smart card that generates a private key on the
chip and public key is stored in a public ldap server. There is also a cross
platform actively used client "digidoc" that makes it easy to send encrypted
and signed docs between residents.

------
arsalanb
Indians can't hold dual citizenship. Does this count as an actual citizenship?

~~~
izolate
Serious question, if you were to never disclose your dual nationality, would
the Indian government ever find out? Any idea how the government stores the
data, and if it's cross-linked with any other services?

~~~
Spooky23
I would be more concerned about the consequences of not complying than the
probability.

~~~
izolate
If there was ever a time to slip through the cracks, it would be right now.
From my pretty limited experience, the data held by the Indian government is
in a transition to digital form, but isn't standardized yet.

There's an incredible opportunity for Indian nationals (and former nationals)
to take advantage of the transition period.

------
benologist
Can you use Stripe with an Estonian company?

------
jugbee
wow, it's not even an HTTPS and they expect me to fill my most sensitive data
here?

~~~
necrodawg
Switching to https might help
[https://apply.e-estonia.com/](https://apply.e-estonia.com/)

