
Los Angeles spending $40K/mile painting city streets white to combat climate chg - masonic
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/10/los-angeles-painting-city-streets-white-in-bid-to-combat-climate-change.amp.html
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brohoolio
“Construct a new 2-lane undivided road — about $2 million to $3 million per
mile in rural areas, about $3 million to $5 million in urban areas. Construct
a new 4-lane highway — $4 million to $6 million per mile in rural and suburban
areas, $8 million to $10 million per mile in urban areas.”

$40k isn’t cheap but it’s a fraction of the cost of the roads. I can see the
value of experimentation.

Just imagine if it reduced crime. A charge that puts someone in jail for a
year costs society well over $40k. Heat definitely can lead to anger, riots
etc.

~~~
wallace_f
I wonder why countries like Taiwan and Korea are so good at building things
like roads, metro railways, etc, while around Boston a lot of it is basically
atrocious crap that comes at multiples, to orders of magnitude, the cost.

Edit: also in Hokkaido, I never saw a single road as bad as around Boston.

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b34r
Are they dealing with the same climate issues? The extreme hot/cold cycles
really tear up Boston’s roads.

~~~
craftyguy
Korea definitely experiences temperature swings. For example, the average
highs for Seoul[0] are very similar to the average highs of Boston[1].

0\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul#Climate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul#Climate)

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston#Climate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston#Climate)

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scarface74
I don't get it. Why is "climate chsnge" needed as a justification? Isn't it
enough of a reason that it can cool temparatures in the surrounding area 10
degrees if it helps reduce AC costs?

~~~
adjkant
In this case, it's possibly the spin of fox, or at least their intentional
inclusion, to act as a dog whistle to conservatives about liberals (mentioned
as possibly running for president) wasting money to fight some imaginary
thing, at least how their viewers will see it.

The closing of the article is quite telling:

> "Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, who may make a run for president in 2020,
> has used the project as part of an overall plan to reduce greenhouse gas
> emissions in the city by 45 percent below 1990 levels by 2025.

> "Climate change is a fact of life that people in Los Angeles and cities
> around the world live with every day. It is a grave threat to our health,
> our environment, and our economy — and it is not debatable or negotiable,"
> he said in a statement last year after President Trump said he would walk
> away from the Paris Climate Agreement."

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poulsbohemian
Anybody here have knowledge into why it wouldn't be possible to just formulate
the pavement itself to be lightly colored? I'm wondering out loud here why you
couldn't mix something into it that would alter the color and be a more
permanent solution than a top coat.

~~~
newnewpdro
I'm no expert but asphalt is bitumen for a reason, and bitumen is blacker than
black.

If you were to mix in something in sufficient proportion to lighten the color
of the asphalt, it seems likely you'd change more properties than just its
appearance, like its durability and water resistance.

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newnewpdro
This strikes me as incredibly dumb from a safety standpoint, especially when
it comes to motorcyclists.

When painted parts of the road become wet they're slick as ice.

Motorcyclists quickly learn to avoid a variety of operations on painted
sections of the road, especially in the wet, because the grip is severely
compromised.

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hclalpha
I bet this is not to combat climate change rather than to combat hot spots in
the city...

~~~
emilsedgh
If they manage to reduce the temperature by doing this, then it would help
climate change by reducing energy usage during summer.

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lykr0n
I remember a story where Phoenix painted a parking lot turquoise to try and do
the same thing.

If you look past the cost, it's not a bad idea. Parts of LA are asphalt
jungles, and this might be one way to relatively easily reduce the
temperature.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> If you look past the cost, it's not a bad idea.

Depends how you feel about snow blindness.

~~~
mitchty
Hopefully this stuff isn't as bad as snow and is more matte white versus
shiny/reflective white.

The photos I found look like its more matte than new snow reflecting light
into your eyes like a jj abrams movie.

Better photos here: [https://www.demilked.com/white-streets-heat-climate-
change-l...](https://www.demilked.com/white-streets-heat-climate-change-los-
angeles/)

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quickthrower2
$5700/mile-year, based on the maintenance period of 7 years.

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diogenescynic
How is this not a driving hazard? I’m all for fighting climate change but
won’t this make driving during a sunset basically impossible and dangerous? I
can only imagine how horrible the glare will be.

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ebbv
Far more balanced and informative write up of this story:

[https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-
weather/blogs/how-...](https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-
weather/blogs/how-los-angeles-beating-heat-white-painted-streets)

~~~
jkingsbery
There was nothing but statement of fact in the original link, taking
everything that everyone for saying at face value. Do we just assume that
anything from Fox News is biased here on HackerNews due to its source?

~~~
oldcynic
Yet the piece parent links is far more detailed and informative than Fox's
short summary. It would be the better HN link.

It's unfortunate they wrote balanced as I don't think it's about balance or
bias. Just amount of information content.

~~~
masonic
The MNN story is totally mute on the cost, which is relevant.

I don't think the _concept_ is a bad idea, but I would like to see a
representative trial first before assuming it is a consequence-free benefit.

That's how sound walls along freeways came along. Nobody considered that the
materials were not at all sound- _absorbent_ and therefore would just
_displace_ noise a bit farther away from the freeway.

~~~
oldcynic
They both mention the cost and life.

Fully agree that some representative trials would be sensible first. Far too
much of what we do turns out to have unintended consequences.

Maybe they should explore possible glare from a white, coated, road surface.
It'll be a poor scheme if it turns out to lead to an increase in auto
accidents or pedestrians being run over because they're getting lost in heat
haze.

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thrrrowwy
LA is mismanaged today at epic levels.

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nodesocket
Am I the only one who thinks this is a gigantic waste of taxpayer money? Those
funds surely could be used more effectively to combat climate change. This
can't be the best solution they came up with.

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mayneack
Depends on how well it works. If it actually brings down the temperature a
noticeable amount in the summer, it might be offset by the saved air
conditioning costs. LA gets some fun blackouts every summer from everyone
using their AC at the same time. As a resident, I don't have any problem with
the experiment.

~~~
nodesocket
I used to live in southern California, and LA is just hot. Always has been,
always will be. $40,000 per mile to paint roads white is a waste of taxpayer
money that could otherwise be used for more fruitful causes and initiatives
(food for the poor, infrastructure, healthcare, housing).

~~~
mayneack
How long it has been hot seems irrelevant to the question of "will this make
it less hot?". _IF_ this makes it less hot, it still _might_ be a waste of
money, but it all depends on how much less hot.

