
The CIA's Reckless Breach of Trust - lvevjo
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/01/opinion/The-CIAs-Reckless-Breach-of-Trust.html
======
TeMPOraL
You know what's CIA's _even more_ reckless breach of trust? Organizing fake
vaccination campaigns[0]. Now the efforts with eradicating Polio in some parts
of the world meet with resistance of people who don't trust the vaccination
campaign isn't a cover for US clandestine operations[1]. Hard to blame them,
to be honest.

 _" The edict by the Islamic militants to ban immunization was in response to
the CIA's setting up a fake hepatitis vaccination campaign in Pakistan."_

And now thanks to CIA stunts many dozen (if not hundreds) Polio workers _got
killed_ and we risk not being able to eradicate the disease.

[0] - [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-
vaccin...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-
osama-bin-ladens-dna)

[1] -
[http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/07/28/330767266/t...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/07/28/330767266/taliban-
in-pakistan-derails-world-polio-eradication)

~~~
tomjen3
Shouldn't be difficult to fix. The programs should just be financed and
controlled by Saudi Arabia or some other ME country.

~~~
scott_karana
> The programs should just be financed and controlled by Saudi Arabia or some
> other ME country.

Hopefully a country that doesn't collude with the USA, since that'll hardly
alleviate their suspicions. :-)

------
higherpurpose
How come nobody in the media is calling this _treason_? We're talking about a
government agency _hacking_ and _spying_ on the US Senate. This is like a Will
Smith movie plot about the government "bad guys".

"Improper access"? Are you kidding me? I guess Manning was a fool for not
"apologizing" for his "improper access". That would've definitely saved him.

What's worse is that even after Feinstein accused them of hacking and spying,
_they still did it_ afterwards [1]. And if they get away with it now, they
will most definitely continue to do it.

[1] -
[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140731/18065928080/cia-s...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140731/18065928080/cia-
spying-senate-went-much-further-than-originally-reported.shtml)

~~~
krapp
It's not the media's purpose to declare something treason - doing so would
make them look like partisan hacks.

~~~
scott_karana
How is this an issue of partisanship?

This is the CIA hacking the Senate. It's not GOP vs Democrat or even Executive
vs Judiciary vs Legislative.

Besides, I think it can be entirely fair for newspapers to pose the question
of "Is this tantamount to treason?", and let people decide for themselves.

~~~
krapp
The issue itself may not be partisan, but it will still be interpreted that
way. The media has been a political strawman for both parties for a long time.
Each accuses the other of essentially controlling it to further their agenda.
Once accusations of 'treason' are made from a media source, then inevitably at
least half of the country will dismiss it as propaganda.

If a media outlet did, I think they would probably have to do so carefully.

~~~
scott_karana
Ah, fair enough. I see your point. Thanks! :-)

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secstate
Well, I wrote my congressmen. What else can we possibly do? This is, however,
a fucking travesty of justice. How can you possibly be caught committing a
crime and have the higher-ups formally apologize, and say they wont do it
again?

This is high treason against the United States Senate. What the hell is wrong
with this country? I feel like the US is one big democratic tease, pretending
to be a bastion of free thought and high ideals. When in reality it's no
different than any other relatively peaceful, horribly corrupt government that
has ever existed.

Reading a history of the Roman Republic and eventual Empire recently, I have a
suspicion we're headed down pretty much the same path, simply with better
access to current information. That could change everything. But it probably
wont change anything.

~~~
aaronblohowiak
> relatively peaceful

[citation needed]

The US has seldom had a decade of peace in its history:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States)

~~~
poof131
The US Military has seldom had a decade of peace, New York and San Francisco
have had centuries.

~~~
sp332
Well, SF has had about 1 century.

~~~
barce
There are bullet-ridden and blood-stained flags in San Francisco's City Hall
that beg to differ and were carried by this city's sons to different wars and
conflicts. I cried when I first saw them.

~~~
simoncion
This is a gentle reminder that when someone says "Place X has known peace for
period Y" they mean "There has been no significant military action in Place X
for period Y.". People from Place X can engage in military action in other
places during period Y, but Place X is still in a period of peace.

~~~
sp332
Well my City Hall has blood-stained flags too, they're from the Civil War
[http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/201312...](http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20131219/NEWS06/131219180&template=printart)
which didn't happen anywhere around here. I wouldn't say NH was "at peace"
during the civil war though.

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forgotAgain
So we know from recent history that the US Justice Department thinks accessing
a computer network without authorization is worth 35 years in prison.

I was going to pose the question what the over / under line would be on
charges for those members of the CIA who did this but then I realized that it
would be a silly question. When it comes to the US Government the corollary of
too big to fail is too powerful to jail.

~~~
opendais
It was CIA computers accessed by the CIA. :)

------
kyllo
No surprises here, of course this is what happens when you create an agency
whose mission is to lie, decieve, and break the law, and then give it limited
oversight and almost unlimited funding. The CIA's entire history is just one
scandal after another.

~~~
Alupis
The CIA's charter forbids any domestic campaigns...

~~~
pessimizer
But defines "domestic" as something that never touches the internet, and never
once does business with or makes a phone call to a foreign national.

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DanielBMarkham
The nation needs an intelligence community. In the modern world, that's non-
negotiable.

But having said that, there are a few breaches of trust that warrant extreme
action, and this is one of them. This isn't some low-level analyst using his
pull to get out of a parking ticket. This is the executive branch of
government running an intelligence operation _against another branch of the
government_.

There's no known universe in which this is anywhere near being acceptable. And
even if you buy the lone wolf scenario thrown out here, it still means that
the agency had an atmosphere in which it seemed okay to do this -- and it was
done with little or no oversight. In fact, this is a much _worse_ scenario,
because it implies that lone wolves all over the agency are doing all sorts of
things on their own initiative. God knows what.

Congress, kicking and screaming, is going to have to grow a set of balls and
publicly tear apart the intelligence apparatus again. We are probably going to
need new constitutional amendments to address property rights and the idea of
"personal papers" in the digital age. Computers are extensions of people's
minds. They are not like music players or VCRs. Not at all.

This whole mess has been an example of how the political class will put off
making a decision that might involve risk as long as possible. I keep
wondering what more has to come out, and how much is enough.

Sadly, I think we're not there yet.

~~~
sroerick
What do you think about the open intelligence movement?

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Never heard of it. The title sounds interesting.

~~~
ianstallings
Here is some more info on a figure behind the open source intelligence
movement below. It's not just intelligence that they want to reform, it's the
entire system.

[http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-
insight/2014/ju...](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-
insight/2014/jun/19/open-source-revolution-conquer-one-percent-cia-spy)

------
jobu
_" The committee has been working since 2009 on a comprehensive history of the
agency’s antiterror program during the George W. Bush administration"_

That makes it sound like the investigation is politically motivated, which I
find disappointing. It seems highly likely that some of those practices
continued under Obama, and if there's any hint of political leaning in an
investigation like this then most people will just ignore it as more partisan
bullshit.

~~~
mullingitover
> That makes it sound like the investigation is politically motivated, which I
> find disappointing.

No, what's politically motivated was that the chain of command that authorized
and enacted torture was never prosecuted. This is not just a simple violation,
but a _Grave Breach_ as defined in the Geneva Conventions. In an effort to
avoid what would be an inevitable partisan shitstorm, the heinous acts
committed by the CIA and authorized explicitly by the White House were
whitewashed. This report was the _only_ thing that remained in the arsenal to
hold these perpetrators accountable, and the CIA was actively attempting to
thwart its work.

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pasbesoin
In this as other spheres of recent, catastrophic failure (i.e. the financial
crisis): I'm down to saying to TPTB:

"No jail? You fail."

If Brennan can't be prosecuted for perjury, then a very public and (really)
career-ending firing is in order.

As for the Congress that has been soaking up these lies and dissemblance,
well, if you're a U.S. citizen, don't forget to vote. Also in local elections,
where candidates grow into future Congress-critters -- or used to, before they
started simply buying their way in.

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state
I recently read "Legacy of Ashes"[1]. If you're interested in the extremely
long list of breaches of trust that the CIA is responsible for it's a great
resource.

[1] -
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Ashes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Ashes)

------
ajmurmann
I am of the opinion that nothing is worse for a society than corrupt law
enforcement of any kind. I am generally against death penalty, but think it
should be applied for even minor breaches by law enforcement. If we cannot
trust the people who are supposed to keep us save the entire system is broken.

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shrnky
"Bush derangement syndrome?" At some point during the Bush years the New York
Times seems to have been hit with said syndrome and devolved into nothing more
than another partisan rag.

Bush is mentioned three times in the article. Guess how many times Obama is
mentioned? Not once. The most powerful and influential person in this issue,
Not Mentioned Once.

So what if Bush implemented these policies. So what if by some miracle they
were able to prosecute and convict him. We'd still have the status quo.

Articles like the one above are the very reason I hold "The Paper of Record"
in almost as low esteem as outlets such as Fox News.

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farseer
So now you know how it feels like to live in a banana republic?

~~~
happyscrappy
While that may make you feel better about whatever country you happen to live
in, if the most powerful nation in the history of the world qualifies as a
banana republic then the phrase has no meaning.

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jseip
Pardon Snowden Now.

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steveax
And why isn't anyone calling for Brennan's head on a stick for lying about
this? Really, I'm mystified.

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dickinurass
It's hilarious, if anyone else was caught infiltrating senate computers .. but
the CIA f'n seriously they were trying to interfere with a torture
investigation .. ridiculous where are the repercussions what country am I
living in?

~~~
shitlord
But nobody infiltrated senate computers to begin with...

