
The Rise of the Electric Scooter - idoco
https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-rise-of-the-electric-scooter/
======
eldenbishop
I rode a non-electric kick scooter (Xootr) for three years working in downtown
SF. It is by far the best form of transitional transport there is and superior
to bikes for 99% of actual real world travel. It was easily 4-5 times faster
than walking and more importantly suddenly made the entire city open due to
how insanely efficient it was for "glueing" together various forms of public
transport. I could hop from transport hub to transport hub insanely quickly
and the entire system suddenly worked in a way that did not happen with
walking or biking. Some people say walk, but it's too slow and a 1/2 mile
"walk" section on a complicated transport route would be impractical on foot.
Biking is fast enough for long trips but massively inconvenient for quick
trips to a store or park or restaurant. A scooter on the other hand could be
with me all day, I can take it into the store with me, I can take it on the
bus. Transition cost from arrival to getting on the bus or walking into a
store was seconds instead of minutes with a bike. The scooter had tons of
upsides and the only downside was, at the time, that it was kind of
embarrassing to be seen on. People talk to much about the "last-mile" as if
the only travel people do is on massive transport corridors to and from work.
The scooter solves the transport mesh, the hops and transitions of actual day-
to-day living.

~~~
umvi
> It was easily 4-5 times faster than walking

I can walk a mile in 20 minutes which is 3 mph. This implies these scooters
can maintain 12-15 mph?

Am I just underestimating how fast you can get going on these things? That
seems kind of fast unless you are going downhill both ways.

~~~
aveni
I ride an electric scooter approx. 4 mi each way Caltrain <-> work everyday. I
regularly maintain 15mph+ trip average.

~~~
umvi
Right, and the guy I was replying to was claiming that speed on a _non-
electric_ "Xootr".

------
com2kid
I am amused this is still a topic of discussion in America.

Visit China sometime, electric motor scooters (larger than the kids versions
we have here[1]) and motorbikes are everywhere, the large majority of small
vehicles on the road there are now electric.

It is super nice, the streets are far cleaner and quieter than just a few
years ago.

One huge benefit China has is an existing infrastructure for smaller vehicles,
there is either a grade separation or a fence that differentiates small
vehicles from larger ones.

On narrow urban streets speeds are lower so the separation is not needed. This
is actually a great example of how making streets smaller can increase
throughput, if bikes + electric bikes + motor scooters + cars all share the
same road, more traffic can fit on the street once people who would be in
individual occupancy cars feel comfortable moving to more space efficient
forms of transportation.

Meanwhile in America we paint a tiny narrow bike lane on the road and pretend
the white line is going to stop accidents.

Bonus: Electric motorbikes / motor scooters can have canopies on top, helping
alleviate some of the weather issues.

[1] [https://wiztem.en.made-in-
china.com/product/hygJHVvFMlcN/Chi...](https://wiztem.en.made-in-
china.com/product/hygJHVvFMlcN/China-Best-Selling-EEC-
Approved-1500W-60V-Electric-Scooter-Harley-City-Coco.html)

~~~
dmix
> Meanwhile in America we paint a tiny narrow bike lane on the road and
> pretend the white line is going to stop accidents.

Separated bike lanes can be equally dangerous and more inconvenient for
cyclists. If you can swing around a slow/stopped hazard then it’s not much
better. It’s only good for the newbie riders who are scared of the road.

The best arrangements are sharrows where both parties are sharing the road
with constant reminders to cars to be aware of their surrounds and respect
cyclists.

Otherwise I 100% agree with you regarding electric vehicles.

~~~
com2kid
Depends on the speed limit.

Around here, on larger streets the speed limit is 35 mph. Riding a bike is
considered a rather dangerous activity.

Drop the speed limit to 20 mph and maybe sharing the road becomes possible.

Seeing how other countries do it though, true separated bike lanes are the
best. I agree that studies show painted bike lanes are actually more
dangerous, but a physical barrier between cars and bikes is going to be the
safest solution.

~~~
NewsAware
The dangerous place is not the straight road, but crossings where cars turn
right and hit cyclists going straight. So the way these spots are handled is
way more important than painted line vs fence.

~~~
com2kid
This is true, but putting the stopping line for cars back a few feet largely
fixes this. (Source: HN post a few months ago ;)

------
dognotdog
Back in ca 2001-2005 I used to work my summer nights for a tiny electric
scooter rental place that had about 10-20 working scooters at a given time,
renting them out to tourists at a lake, and they were fun, especially after
learning how to tune the controller for a nice speed boost (for staff use
only, of course). There were no serious accidents in all the time I worked
there, even though the main customers were flip-flop wearing tourists and
kids, driving these for the first time in crowded pedestrian areas.

For all intents and purposes, they worked and felt like the modern scooters,
except that they had quick swap, fast charge AGM batteries. If we wanted to
run an errand the next town over that would exceed a 30-40min ride (30min was
a typical rental period), we'd just pack some extra batteries!

Those scooters were custom inventions, but larger scale commercialization
never got anywhere and the business eventually died because of the battery
tech being too cumbersome for consumer use, and the same legal questions that
still plague us today, though it seems like electric bike usage the past 15
years has allowed at least some legislatures to give alternative powered
transport a chance. As they should, as replacing large lumps of metal moving
through our cities at unsafe speeds with much smaller lumps of metal moving a
lot slower can only be a good thing for residents, pedestrians, and the
environment.

------
Zenst
Here in the UK they are illegal (unless used on private land), which is sad as
whilst they are illegal as technically a motor vehicle, needing some form of
test, insurance, mot.... That has not happened and in limbo as clearly a need
for some standards control etc, but an unwillingness to address that and more
so a periodic fashion stopping of people upon such vehicles in an apathetic
way that causes many to get one, go months, even years without knowing they
are breach of the law and driven past many police/traffic wardens, then
suddenly one day they stop you and caution you saying you can't. They then go
back to ignoring it as a low-priority issue and the limbo of not legal as no
formal way to allow one, yet readily sold and accessible.

So for the UK, such rise is randomly curtailed and no progress upon legal
avenues to use them as you would intend beyond private land - which many do
not own in London, an area in which such modes of transport are most suited.

[EDIT ADD] A better read upon what I said :-
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48106617](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48106617)

~~~
Blackstone4
I agree that it’s sad that e-scooters are banned in the UK. I take the train
to work and I have ~20mins of waking either end (1 hr 20 mins per day total).
An electric scooter could save me ~40 mins per day....

Why are electric scooters banned when e-bikes are fine? What if they were
capped at 20mph? Below the 25 for bikes

~~~
smashah
Ebikes are technically restricted to 15mph here. The micromobility laws in the
UK are a complete joke and driven by car and tier 1 manufacturers lobbying
(e.g Bosch via EU).

EBikes and scooters are hands down the best solution to London's pollution
issue yet people are getting fined for using them.

There is a complete lack of logic in the rulings. The reason why escooters are
illegal whereas EBikes are not: throttle. An ebike with a throttle is
technically not legal and in the same boat as an escooter.

This distinction is ridiculous as an ecyclist/scooterist with a throttle is
safer than someone going the same speed under their own effort.

The law in the UK should be: \- throttle is allowed \- fine if not wearing
proper safety equipment \- Speed limit increased to 25 mph or current vehicle
speed limit (e.g 20 near schools) \- no power limit (this allows heavier
people to go the same speed as others, and it allows heavier cargo-type bikes
to be much more useful) \- Innovate UK/BEIS grants specifically for electric
micromobility projects (right now EBikes and scooters are generally barred
from these grant competitions)

~~~
ljf
The speed limitation is down to the fact that they don't need insuring. Like
pedal bikes the idea is that they will cause limited injury or damage to
property in the event of a crash. Up things to 25mph, plus the frame/battery
weight needed to add strength and safety to accelerate and brake swiftly, and
suddenly you have plenty of energy to damage a car or other piece of property
or hurt a human (yes I know cyclists also occasionally hurt humans).

So therefore they will need insurance, and therefore need registration. And
guess what, you can ride an electric scooter or bike at the speeds you
mentioned, you just need to register and insure it. It is entirely possible
and people do.

What you are suggesting is a way to ride fast vehicles without the social
contract of insurance and traceability.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
The fact that you're suggesting insurance and registration are to be expected
for any class of vehicle short of a moped is completely foreign to me.

~~~
ljf
Yup, it all needs insuring here - even the 35cc autocycle I used to have
needed it - but it only needed a cheap daylight mot (no lights, indicators or
speedo) and tax was £15 insurance was just £50 at the time.

Being hit by a moped could easily cause life changing injuries, so I'm pleased
to see them insured.

~~~
smashah
No it doesn't.

There is already voluntary insurance for (e) cycling here. Making it mandatory
for some makes no sense.

Ebike is not a moped. Mopeds can go much faster than the proposed limit of
25mph.

Mandatory insurance is a band aid.

------
throw0101a
Perhaps it's because I have a motorcycle, but every time I come across the
word "scooter" what comes to mind is a Vespa-like vehicle.

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter#Vehicles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter#Vehicles)

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_scooter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_scooter)

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_(motorcycle)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_\(motorcycle\))

I'm curious about the etymology for each type, and how both ended up using the
same word.

~~~
notJim
This is something I rant about from time to time. The word scooter is
ridiculously overloaded. I'm semi-interested in an electric vespa type
scooter, but it's hard to Google for it, because everything about electric
scooters online refers to kick scooters.

~~~
ikeyany
If you call them mopeds that should clarify any ambiguity.

~~~
hcho
Mopeds are sub 50cc motorized bicycles though.

------
rvanmil
I've been riding a Micro Falcon X3 for a few months now. Almost all electric
scooters are illegal here in The Netherlands, but Micro sells two models which
were adjusted to be legal; the throttle has been disabled and you have to
actually kick to start moving and keep kicking regularly to keep the electric
motor going.

My experience with it is it's a very fun way to commute and I prefer it to my
bike. Most of the time I'm moving faster than all bikes, but just like the
article I do agree with the 15 mph speed limit, because I really don't want to
be going any faster with this thing. When I just started riding and was still
learning how to stand and keep in control, a couple of times it shot away from
under my feet and I hit the road pretty hard (on my feet luckily).

I'm not wearing a helmet or any other protective gear, I don't think that is
necessary anymore than when riding a bike in NL (we have bike lanes
_everywhere_ ). But if I had to travel on the road with cars then I probably
would wear a helmet.

As for the goofy look mentioned by others in the comments, I don't know if
that's true and I'm not the type of person that cares. I do get a lot of
people looking at me though, but that's probably because they hardly ever see
an electric scooter around here, or they think I'm doing something illegal and
in NL the rules are the rules and deviation is not acceptable! ;)

------
molodec
Ok, I understand that there is a lot of benefits to electric scooters. They
are fun, convenient, and allow to navigate quickly, and great for the
environment, or at least better than cars. Why not driving regular bicycles?
Obesity is a growing problem, because people don't exercise enough. Mechanical
bicycle is a great low impact activity for modern life. Also, bicycles aren't
generally allowed on a sidewalk, but I have seen people ride on them
sidewalks. The author of the article, who is by the way the indoor
enthusiasts, feels that scooters shouldn't be disallowed on the sidewalks. We
need to place for people to walk without worrying about being hit by a
scooter. We have roads for motor vehicles and we have side walks for people.
Let's keep it this way.

~~~
Goronmon
_Why not driving regular bicycles?_

Where do you put the bicycle when you get where you need to go?

~~~
outworlder
> Where do you put the bicycle when you get where you need to go?

Aren't there any light posts close to where you need to go? Not even talking
about dedicated bike spots or racks – which may be available on your location.
If you are not a bicyclist, you may not have noticed them even if they are
present.

If you are commuting, surely there is some place at your place employment
where you can leave it?

More worrying is multi-mode transportation. If you location's public transport
doesn't provide space for bikes, then it is a big problem.

------
mturmon
Honest question: How do people lock these things if visiting a shop for a
half-hour?

(Edited to add: Sorry for confusion! I'm talking about an owned model like the
one in OP, the Xiaomi Mi M365 - I looked at some product imagery and it wasn't
clear if this was possible.)

~~~
mikestew
Depends on the scooter. On the Xiaomi in question, yes, I've found it to be
problematic. The solution is the Masterlock handcuff lock. One end around the
tube between deck and bars, the other end around a post.

The Boosted Rev I have now has exposed frame rails so you can use your
favorite bike lock.

~~~
flavor8
One of these?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SZiI2KhWfU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SZiI2KhWfU)

~~~
mikestew
That's the one. Weighs a chunk (maybe a bit more than a Kryptonite cable
lock?), but it's solid and it solves the "lock up my Xiaomi" problem. Super-
quick to lock and unlock, too.

------
mips_avatar
I recently bought a Boosted rev and have been using it for my 1.8 miles
commute. I strongly disagree with the author's 15mph limit. I think 25 mph is
a more reasonable limit, otherwise you have cars aggressively trying to pass
you on roads. At 24 mph (my scooters max speed), the cars on my commute (25mph
speed limit), still try to pass me sometimes but it's a lot safer.

~~~
Steltek
Or maybe cars should obey the speed limit, pass at a safe and reasonable
distance, and not road rage at people? I mean, why does every new alternative
travel mode need to work around the unacceptable and lawless US driver
behavior?

That all said, 25mph on scooter wheels sounds terrifying. I've seen some
escooters with tiny adorable disc brakes. What's your stopping distance at
that speed?

~~~
mikestew
_That all said, 25mph on scooter wheels sounds terrifying._

Meh, you work up to it. Time and place, though; I tone it down through the
downtown part of the trail.

 _What 's your stopping distance at that speed?_

Faster than my car or motorcycle. And that's just using the regenerative
braking of the motors. I've never tried a full-on-drop-anchor stop with both
the mechanical disk and regen brakes.

~~~
luu
> > What's your stopping distance at that speed?

> Faster than my car or motorcycle. And that's just using the regenerative
> braking of the motors. I've never tried a full-on-drop-anchor stop with both
> the mechanical disk and regen brakes.

Do you have a heavily modified scooter or something otherwise unusual? I
looked up braking tests for cars, motorbikes, and e-scooters, and couldn't
find a single e-scooter that's been tested that has the same stopping distance
as a normal car let alone a sports or a motorcycle.

I don't think this is super surprising considering the relative size of the
contact patch and what the "tire" is made of on most scooters.

In another comment, you said you have a Xiaomi scooter. In this brake test
([https://www.zdnet.com/article/mi-electric-scooter-review-
com...](https://www.zdnet.com/article/mi-electric-scooter-review-complete-
that-last-mile-commute-with-ease/)), it has a 13 foot stopping distance from
12.4mph even when using the disc brakes. This is similar to what other scooter
tests show.

NACTO's suggestion for a conservative car stopping distance is 11 feet from
15mph, not including reaction time, which is the same as in the scooter test
([https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/vehicle_stopping_distance_and_ti...](https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/vehicle_stopping_distance_and_time_upenn.pdf)).

How are you getting your scooter to stop more quickly than a motorcycle?

~~~
mikestew
Better brakes. The Xiaomi’s stopping power isn’t even close to the Boosted
Rev, mainly due to weak regen braking on the Xiaomi.

But you caught me, it’s all been measured on the seat-of-the-pants dyno.
</shrug>

------
melling
The last mile has been solved?

Now we simply need to make the 50-75 miles in-between more bearable.
Hopefully, someday soon we’ll be covering that vast distance at the incredible
speed of 100 mph (160 kph)

[https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-
maglev-t...](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-maglev-
trains/index.html)

~~~
masklinn
> Hopefully, someday soon we’ll be covering that vast distance at the
> incredible speed of 100 mph (160 kph)

> [https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-
> maglev-t...](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-maglev-t…)

Intercity / regional trains are already a thing, and 160kph or so is a
standard top speed for them e.g. Class 387, SNCF Class B 81500, …

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Régiolis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Régiolis)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_B_81500](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_B_81500)

~~~
altoidaltoid
In the US , the problem is dedicated Rail ROW to run intercity trains at a
frequency where they are actually competitive with the car. Otherwise ROW
acquisition tends to sink most proposals, and this not counting the actual
construction costs

------
trenning
I'd love to get an electric scooter for commuting but my commute is a little
long (and very hilly in Seattle). I occasionally commute on my electric bike
though and it's a blast. It's also the fastest mode of travel hands down in
the city, second only to my regular motorcycle.

The biggest thing with these low end electric bikes/scooters is that they have
a hard time with the hills and really slow down and burn through power on
them. My bike will do ~45mph but there's hills on my commute where I top out
at ~19mph (with a running start of ~30mph).

But if you're commute in <5mi I think the scooter might be the best because as
other have noted it's the most convenient, being able to take it inside with
you to stores or hop on the bus or toss it in a car are extremely valuable
features to me. Theft is my biggest concern but again with a cheap scooter you
aren't out too bad if it gets jacked.

~~~
walshemj
I think with hilly areas having regenerative breaking helps as you can regain
some of the loss on the way down.

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
Regen is fairly common with direct-drive hubs, but it's not beneficial for
range. You get something like 5% more range on a hilly route. The _vast_
majority of energy goes to drag unless you're puttering along at 10mph.

It is very useful, but more for saving brake wear.

------
impalallama
As much some cities are struggling to figure out how to regulate them I think
my city has basically nailed it first try. Give a license or two to certain
companies to allow their scooters and other wise just use them like bikes.
Keep them off side walks that are for pedestrians and otherwise use bike
lanes. Just makes sense.

~~~
notatoad
>Keep them off side walks that are for pedestrians and otherwise use bike
lanes.

this makes the assumption that your city has a functional bike lane network,
which is the problem in a lot of cities. If you have bike lanes, it's really
easy. If you don't have bike lanes, suddenly you have this friction where
there's suddenly a whole lot more people trying to use the streets but not in
a car.

------
raintrees
I watched the same battery technology improvement play out in tools at the
hardware store. There are now whole kits for the mobile contractor they call
"wireless"...

------
squarefoot
I would buy one right now if it had larger wheels and proper brakes. In my
area such small wheels would turn any speed bump or road irregularities
(pretty normal over here) into a fatal accident waiting to happen.

------
segmondy
Lots of places are not even bicycle safe and walkable. So I don't even see how
Electric scooter will work in those locations. I notice it's adopted in places
where people can walk and bike.

~~~
TulliusCicero
It's become somewhat popular in the US, despite the US having no cities with
good bike infrastructure. Convenience is a hell of a drug.

The way I see it, this increased uptake could help drive greater investment in
bike lanes and walkability. Politically, it's always easier to spend money on
things people already do than on things they _might_ do if you spent enough.

~~~
beatgammit
Ideally, we'd have carless urban centers, with only buses, light rail, and
small vehicles (bikes and scooters) allowed in a certain radius. This would
allow greater density in the downtown area, eliminate most pollution, and
promote general health, yet for some reason, nobody seems to propose it. It
could even be coupled with free mass transportation in that region, since
costs for running such a service would likely decrease (could probably even
have it driverless since there aren't as many hazards).

The toughest nut to crack would be replacing trucks, which could probably be
handled with either light rail handling goods or truck-only roads completely
segregated from the rest of the roads (say, tunnel or overpass).

~~~
ars
> The toughest nut to crack

And you somehow managed to completely forget that families with small children
exist.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Every time we put my son onto or into a bike, I'm reminded of the
impossibility of our existence.

~~~
ars
"children" is plural not singular.

------
russellbeattie
Got my kid a FreeGoUSA.com scooter a year or so ago before he had his driver's
license. This scooter is a dual motor version with a massive battery - it
weighs 75 pounds, goes 30mph and has a 20-30 mile range. Once he got his
license, I assumed he'd probably want to just drive a car, but he much prefers
the scooter: Faster in traffic, no need to fill it with gas. In fact, the
scooter has completely reshaped his perception of gasoline and cars - it just
seems like a horrible waste of money while also polluting. Can't say I
disagree with him.

------
clairity
not sure where jeff got the the initial $800 price of the m365. even his
camelcamelcamel chart shows a $600 ceiling. i bought mine at $500 and can
confirm that getting it at $350 is a no-brainer.

as he says, it absolutely extends your range for all kinds of situations (yes,
even carry one in your car). it’s not very rugged so put slime in the tires as
he says and expect some other things to break. i disagree about taking it in
stores—it’s awkward but totally acceptable in most places you’d ride a scooter
to (grocery store, cafe, target, etc)

definitely looking forward to the pro!

------
ZoomZoomZoom
I ride a regular non-electric scooter regularly and the biggest problem with
it is the weather. The scooter solves the "last mile" problem for me, but I
can depend on it only for ~7 months in a year, which means I can't really plan
my commute, choose the places where I live and work.

I don't see this problem discussed enough and can't imagine anything better
than public transport for the winter. It's a real bummer.

------
mrwww
I have lived in Shanghai and had an electric scooter as my main mode of
transportation for several years, its incredible for city traffic and i miss
it.

However, I dont get why everyone is using these standup kickbike type
scooters... those suck, clearly.

Scooters like Niu is where its at:
[https://www.niu.com/en/](https://www.niu.com/en/)

~~~
tekkk
I saw the scooter/motor bike craze in India and I have to say I was not
impressed. It was a necessity, yes, but instead of everyone riding million
scooters public transport should be the main mode of transportation for
majority of people in big cities. The traffic is already too congested and
with every oil-burning vehicle out there unsustainable.

------
Yuval_Halevi
I'm living in Tel Aviv

It's crazy to see how in 2-3 years there are thousands of people using
electric scooters and bikes.

The only problem is that it grows in such a rapid pace that the city is not
built to it. There are many small incidents, and in many cases, those
incidents are pretty risky.

------
6gvONxR4sf7o
It's weird how so much of the conversation about these is how they look. If
everyone rode them, they'd look normal. If the looked normal, more people
would ride them. Is the only solution to have early adopters who don't give a
crap?

------
dawhizkid
I wonder why mopeds have never taken off in the US. Seems more practical than
a scooter for medium to long distances within a city. I have relatives in
Taiwan and mopeds are everywhere there (and other parts of Asia).

~~~
walshemj
I think cars a cheaper relatively in the USA also a lot of places I believe
you need to pass the test for a full bike licence. That is a 900 -1200cc super
bike that can do a very good time round the TT course or the ring.

------
lacker
How steep of a hill can you get up with these things? My street is pretty
hilly and I would hate to shell out for a cool device that I have to lug the
last two blocks to my house.

~~~
ProfessorLayton
Not very TBH, I use one to commute to head to the train station. On the way
back I have to climb back up the hill omw home and its maybe ~5% grade, and I
have to peddle to keep going uphill.

My scooter is rated at 250w (600w peak, which is on the low side) but is
incredibly compact when folded, which is a huge plus. Considering upgrading to
a more powerful one, but losing the compactness might not be worth the trade
off to me — I can fit this scooter between my legs in a packed uber pool (!)

------
Slimbo
Isn't the best solution for "last mile" for all of us is to walk it?

~~~
AstralStorm
Or bike it. Also healthy and infrastructure and laws are there.

People with disabilities cannot use these scooters anyway, they need something
different.

~~~
Slimbo
I cycle a lot, but bikes are a pain in that you need somewhere to park them,
something to secure them to prevent them getting robbed, they're horrid in the
rain and you have to ride on the road or a bike path. I can see the attraction
for scooters that avoid these problems, but for the length of journey they're
good for, why not just walk?

~~~
ses1984
How do scooters solve any of these problems? Do you not have to park scooters?
Do they not suck in the rain? Do they not need some surface to ride on?

~~~
BurningFrog
The great thing about the scooter is that it isn't mine, so I don't have to
worry about it getting stolen.

That's it. That's the killer feature.

~~~
AstralStorm
And a rental bike does not have this feature?

~~~
phil248
Sort of, but most bike rental places will charge you a fairly hefty fee (some
places I know charge around $200-$300).

With the scooters, you just have to find a different scooter and continue
about your business.

~~~
ses1984
That's not a problem inherent in the bike or scooter.

------
Sephr
Personally I've enjoyed this new micromobility solution:
[https://uniscoot.com](https://uniscoot.com)

~~~
istorical
Is this a new class of PEV of it's own? I've seen electric unicycles but not
one you sit on and that seems like an unusually wide wheel.

------
paulpauper
a segway is not like a scooter at all.The segway uses gyroscopic technology to
be stable even if it not moving or moving very slowly. This makes segways
ideal for malls or anywhere there are a lot of people and speed is not
paramount

------
taylorlapeyre
I wish they didn't look so silly to ride. I know that scooters will slowly
become more ubiquitous and, as a result, will be considered more normal and
less goofy to ride.

But for now, it just kinda looks goofy to a lot of people.

~~~
mikestew
One looks like a complete idiot riding an 1880s highwheel bicycle (well, in
the 1880s for sure, at least). Bicycles still caught on.

\--

Owner of an 1886 Columbia bicycle and 2019 Boosted Rev scooter

~~~
whenchamenia
To use your own example, bicycles only caught on once they started looking
reasonable. The huge front wheel on pennys was a huge damper to adoption.

~~~
6gvONxR4sf7o
Or is it that the modern version of a bike looks reasonable to you because it
caught on and you grew up with it?

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jossmexico
if we take the quantum of transportation how small can it get? A scooter?

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cdnsteve
I'm sorry but really? Unless you live in California under a direct and major
urban center, this is a joke. Canadian winters are -30 celcius. Future of
transportation, no. Large vehicles and smaller forms of transportation should
in no way "share the roadway". It's complete madness and dangerous. The
Netherlands and Amsterdam in particular have this figured out long ago,
smaller, separate lanes - not a white line. North America still doesn't get
it.

~~~
outworlder
I'm sorry but really? How many locations in this planet have -30 celcius
winters? Just because it may not work for you doesn't mean it can't work for
others. Plus, you are not in a permafrost area, are you?

> Large vehicles and smaller forms of transportation should in no way "share
> the roadway". It's complete madness and dangerous.

Nah. It's only dangerous if traffic laws are not respected nor enforced.

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ocdtrekkie
As a suburban dweller who doesn't go into the city much, it's still surreal to
hear so many stories about the electric scooter craze, to know its happening
thirty or forty miles away... And I've literally never seen it.

I do feel its a good companion to public transit in theory, though it still
lacks everything I want from you know, just having a car: Somewhere to put
stuff. I never commute light enough to live off a scooter.

~~~
peterwwillis
This is a great point. I see people bringing up lots of questions and concerns
about these devices, but it's missing a critical point: these were designed
with specific use cases in mind. They are only useful for people in cities to
go short distances. And within that scope, they are an excellent addition to
other transportation options.

What you mention is actually what I want to build next: micro-mobility for
larger errands. If I buy a trunk load of groceries from the Wal-Mart 6 miles
from me, I want to be able to bring it home. I'm hoping to start designing
devices that fit this use case. Once they exist, they'll provide tons of
benefits: more affordable than a car, the ability to perform trips faster than
with public transit, and more compact "traffic" on roads compared to cars (to
say nothing of emissions).

Another use of these devices is actually changing people's life decisions. I
moved to my current address because it's very close to a subway and trolley
line. But now that I use an electric scooter to get to work, I could move
anywhere that's the same distance. I think there'll be tons of these little
wins found as the devices expand more. (I should note, my city does _not_ have
any rental scooters, but I see people riding their own all over the place)

As batteries get better, I think we're going to start seeing more variety of
devices tailored for more use cases. The scooter will own the short trip into
work, whereas larger devices will be used for cruising off-road, even hauling
a sheet of plywood from Home Depot.

~~~
egypturnash
> If I buy a trunk load of groceries from the Wal-Mart 6 miles from me, I want
> to be able to bring it home.

Have you considered an electric bike plus some kind of trailer, or an electric
cargo bike? Or even an electric trike.

~~~
peterwwillis
Yes, and that's a great general purpose solution. The problem comes when you
try to market this as a replacement for a car, and then it doesn't work. The
platform is too narrow, some require lots of fiddling to get right, you don't
have a comfortable seat, you're open to inclement weather, you have to already
have a decent e-bike, etc. Taking a lot of time to find your own solution is
one thing, but providing everyone a one-size-fits-all (remember, the intention
is to prevent people from needing a car) involves a lot of considerations.
With every change you have to reconsider the whole design, because even small
changes significantly affect the ride.

