
Sights and sounds of the final hours of World War I - lermontov
https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/war-done
======
sam_goody
The article is WWI but here is a relevant anecdote.

I have an elderly neighbor who served in WWII.

He was on a battleship when the news came from the radio room that Germany
surrendered.

In the midst of the celebrations onboard, the sea broke, and they found that
they had been followed and semi surrounded by U-boats.

The submarines were also listening for news, and their commander had said not
to torpedo the ship until they know if the war continues.

It hard to imagine the feeling of victory and relief combined with the feeling
that one was almost sunk, and only for the goodness of the German commandeer
that wasn't looking to kill indiscriminately..

He told me this emotionally, so I take his word for this, but am open to
hearing from those more knowlegable about the facts if his story makes sense.

~~~
lb1lf
I wouldn't say it is impossible, but it strikes me as unlikely (Though do keep
in mind that I am nothing but a guy with an above average interest in history;
I'm mostly throwing out my thoughts here to have them vetted by those more
knowledgeable than I!)

a) To listen to the radio, the German sub would've needed to keep an aerial
above water; this would create a wake which could've been observed, with
obvious consequences for the sub. I doubt a commander would have taken that
risk.

b) I also doubt he'd risk surfacing near a foe armed to the teeth so shortly
after cessation of hostilities - what if the battleship hadn't been notified
yet? Or, just as bad - if they had, but assumed the sub hadn't been, and acted
accordingly, just to be safe?

c) Further, in the last days of the war, Dönitz (head of the Kriegsmarine)
ordered all vessels scuttled, rather than having them fall in enemy hands. I
have no idea how many submarines were still operational and on patrol come V-E
Day, but presumably most would have been scuttled or headed for South America
by then.

So, while I find it unlikely, I wouldn't rule it out, and would love to know
more about the incident.

~~~
ransom1538
a) True, but most uboats needed air anyway. They were viewable by air. (Sure
there was a snorkel [1] but they couldn't endure hours using it).

b) "I also doubt he'd risk surfacing near a foe armed to the teeth so shortly
after cessation of hostilities"

Ok. This. I would say, yes, they would risk it on the German side. Germans
were known to run to American troops for safety. The 'bad war' wasn't between
the US and the Germans. The Germans weren't dumb they knew if they surrendered
to the US they would have international rights and be treated like POWs.

c) Sure. But that left each vessel to their own devices. I would imagine many
surrendering to the US (but still have arms on board).

"I have no idea how many submarines were still operational and on patrol come
V-E Day"

I would say not many. Many due to gasoline restrictions. Being a Uboat wasn't
hard, it was being an axis allied gasoline tanker that was hard.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_snorkel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_snorkel)

~~~
kazen44
Being on a Uboat (or any sub for that matter) must have been absolute horror.
I think das boot (the uncut version) does a good job of conveying the insane
boredom and long days or months with no communication with the outside world.

Also, the fact that your home also has an insane chance of being your coffin..

~~~
enraged_camel
Chicago’s Museum Of Science and Industry has a Uboat on exhibit. The first
uboat captured by allies during WWII in fact. I went inside it and yeah, it’s
pretty depressing. :)

~~~
kazen44
kinda cool! would love to visit suchs a thing sometime, sadly going to the
states is a bit of a large expense to see a uboat..

~~~
lb1lf
You can find the occasional showpiece U-boat several other places -

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_submarine_museums](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_submarine_museums)

------
janpieterz
Incredible! Listened to all the Hardcore History episodes about the first
world war again recently, very moving and just unbelievable in it's scale, I
still don't feel I grasp the immensity. Also saw this[0] colored photo
collection pass by on twitter this morning.

[0] [http://thechive.com/2018/11/07/ww1-in-color-for-100th-
annive...](http://thechive.com/2018/11/07/ww1-in-color-for-100th-anniversary/)

~~~
beat
I listened to that series too ("Blueprint for Armageddon"), and it's
_incredibly_ depressing. The big thing I pulled from it is to watch for the
Sunk Cost Fallacy everywhere. It was obvious by 1915 that trench warfare and
the defensive technology of the era meant that no one was going to gain the
upper hand. It was in everyone's best interest to just quit fighting. But no
one did, because they couldn't go back to their people and say "Yeah, we lost
a million of your sons for nothing, but at least we didn't lose millions
more". So instead, they lost millions more.

~~~
tomjen3
The "When diplomacy fails" podcast has a series on all the errors that were
made during the month before the war started: [http://www.wdfpodcast.com/july-
crisis-anniversary-project/](http://www.wdfpodcast.com/july-crisis-
anniversary-project/)

That war could have been prevented in so, so many ways it is not even funny.
Anyone here could have done it, just by not being able to speak German, or by
not getting the Czar involved, etc.

------
bklyn11201
"Since the armies tabulated their casualty statistics by the day and not by
the hour, we know only the total toll for November 11th: twenty-seven hundred
and thirty-eight men from both sides were killed, and eighty-two hundred and
six were left wounded or missing. But since it was still dark at 5 a.m., and
attacks almost always took place in daylight, the vast majority of these
casualties clearly happened after the Armistice had been signed, when
commanders knew that the firing was to stop for good at 11 a.m. The day’s toll
was greater than both sides would suffer in Normandy on D Day, 1944. And it
was incurred to gain ground that Allied generals knew the Germans would be
vacating days, or even hours, later."

[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/11/05/a-hundred-
year...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/11/05/a-hundred-years-after-
the-armistice)

------
lordnacho
My kid is doing a presentation today about his relative who died in the Great
War.

We did some research for him, and the guy had fought at Ypres twice, been part
of the first gas attack, and got shipped off to Mesopotamia.

A week before the war ended, negotiations were underway but the generals
decided they had to kill a bunch of Ottomans before it was too late. So our
guy got sent to his death to win a war that was already won.

I just think of the waste of life. Wilfred Owen, the poet who wrote about the
war, also died at the very end of the war. His stuff has done much to affect
the mood surrounding WWI.

~~~
arethuza
I happened to be looking at pics of the War Memorial in the village I'm from
(which I walked past multiple times every day for many years) and I noticed an
odd thing - WW1 is "The World's War" and 1939-1945 is "The Great War"

[https://www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/memorial/251345](https://www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/memorial/251345)

~~~
agurk
That's interesting, as in the UK I've always heard the term Great War for the
First World War. Sometime the Second was known as The Last War, which always
confused me as a child as I knew there had been wars since.

It's a shame that war memorials site doesn't have a copy of the inscription on
the memorials - it would be interesting to do a frequency analysis of the
terms used.

~~~
arethuza
I guess there have always been "Great Wars" in history - I remember reading
that the Battle of Brunanburh in 937 was called that for generations after
(probably in Michael Wood's superb book _In Search of England: Journeys Into
the English Past_ ). Now we don't even know where Brunanburh took place!

------
dfee
This is a fascinating article, but it really strikes me how quickly the past
fades.

To a friend who’s currently deployed I sent the following message (we’re both
Americans for context):

> I’ve always thought the civil war was a long time ago - it finished a bit
> over 100 years before I was born. I never thought that to our parents, they
> probably considered what their grandparent’s childhood was like - those were
> their grandparents first memories after all. For our kids, that’s about the
> same for WW1.

~~~
bonbob
And that’s why rememberance is so critical, the severity of WW1 is all too
often forgotten.

~~~
kazen44
i disagree with this, atleast from my experience. World war 1 is heavily
discussed in schools, (considering it resulted in massive social and political
changes around europe, that is not weird)

------
_djo_
Technically speaking, these were the final hours of the First World War in
_Europe_. Fighting continued in East Africa for a few more days owing to
delays in communication.

It was only on 14 November 1918 that the German commander in East Africa Gen
von Lettow-Vorbeck was informed under a ceasefire flag by Lt-Gen van Deventer,
the South African commander of all allied forces in East Africa, of the
armistice signing. His formal surrender only occurred some days later, on 25
November.

The Chambesi Monument in Zambia commemorates the moment the news was
communicated and thus the final cessation of hostilities of WWI.

------
yawz
I'm currently reading Martin Gilbert's "The First World War: A Complete
History". It's been a great read so far. Although there are very many sad and
tragic parts, one section put tears in my eyes:

 _“As [Friedrich] Feuchtinger’s regiment reached the Russian trenches, the
Russians turned to flee. One of them, being closely chased, and apparently
without his rifle, stopped all of a sudden, turned round, held out his right
hand, and put his left hand into his tunic pocket. As he did so, Feuchtinger
plunged in his bayonet. ‘I see his blood redden his uniform, hear him moan and
groan as he twists with the bayonet in his young body. I am seized with
terror. I throw myself down, crawl to him, wanting to help him. But he is
dead. I pull my blood-stained bayonet from the dead body. Wanting to fold his
hands, I see in the left hand a crumpled photo of his wife and child.”_

------
passwd
It doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere: the reason this article has emerged
right now probably has to do with the 100 years since the end of World War I
coming in a few days - November 11th according to Wikipedia (interpretation
varies), also Independence Day for many countries.

~~~
chrisseaton
Anyone who lives in the West who did not already that Sunday is the 100th
Armistice Day must be living under a rock.

~~~
tomjen3
I doubt most here in Denmark know it. The war ending was horrible for the
country (we were neutral war profiteers and sold to both sides at extremely
inflated prices). The war probably only matters to the older generations, if
at all, because for the rest of us it is overshaddowed by the second world
war.

------
claydavisss
One of America's most famous battles - the Battle Of New Orleans, was fought
well after the treaty ending the War Of 1812 had been signed

News travelled slow

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ForHackernews
If you want to hear for yourself, the Imperial War Museum has used
contemporary records to recreate the sounds of the end of the war:

[https://metro.co.uk/video/imperial-war-museum-approximate-
en...](https://metro.co.uk/video/imperial-war-museum-approximate-end-
wwi-1798600/) (audio)

[https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/arts/imperial-war-
museu...](https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/arts/imperial-war-museum-world-
war-one-end-a3982146.html) (more information)

------
epynonymous
great timing, i was actually reading a wonderful book about wwi called “a
world undone” by g j meyer, probably one of the best books about the war out
there.

