
Two Months of Soylent - caublestone
http://robrhinehart.com/?p=474
======
markerdmann
After reading the first Soylent post, I felt inspired to try and come up with
a recipe for a "nutritionally complete" soup. I used an online tool that
calculates the total nutrients for a recipe and came up with this:

3 potatoes 1 onion 500 grams of wild alaskan salmon 1/2 cup of mushrooms 3.5
tbsp of olive oil 30 grams of sunflower seeds 1 tbsp of dried parsley 2 tbsp
of ground thyme 50 grams of parmesan cheese 3 cloves of garlic 20 grams of
sesame seeds 1 medium oyster (from a can) 1 tbsp of ground mace 1 tsp of cod
liver oil

To cook it I just added everything to boiling water in order of cooking time,
starting with the potatoes and onions and ending with the salmon.

I tried making it last night and ate it for dinner and breakfast, and it was
delicious! I also feel amazing. I guess I should track the effects of the
recipe on quantified-mind.com. :-)

I was actually surprised by how hard it was to fit all of the daily nutrient
requirements into a recipe with about 2000-2500 calories (while also avoiding
nutrient overdoses). It would be great if someone would create a website for
"nutritionally complete" recipes, especially recipes that are cheap and easy
to make with a good blender or crockpot.

~~~
MrBra
Could you share the name of the online tool you used? Thanks

~~~
markerdmann
Sure, it's at:

<http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recipe-calculator.asp>

------
gojomo
Crazy name. Grab-bag, ad-hoc nutritional doctrine. Still, I'm glad such fringe
self-experimentation happens.

My biggest concern would be that healthy adaptive systems benefit from
variety, challenge, and chaos.

Intermittent fasting is good. A little contamination from things that are
normally unhealthy is good. (See, for example, the hygiene hypothesis or the
idea of hormesis.) Chewing is good -- as is the somewhat random mix of very-
chewed or less-chewed foods you swallow. Triggering your body's reactions
(including your gut biome's reactions) to different extremes of nutrient mix
will keep the systems 'practiced'...

..unless you're sure you'll spend the rest of your life like a brain-in-a-vat,
and then you might as well take nutrition by IV.

~~~
dangero
"Intermittent fasting is good."

Can you provide a reference for that and define what you mean by
"intermittent", "fasting", and "good"?

~~~
gojomo
"Fasting" is not eating. It's usually done for the span of a few meals, or a
full day (24-hour period or simply daytime), or even a few days.

"Intermittent" might mean fasting once every few weeks, or once a week, or
every other day, or even every daytime (as for Muslims during Ramadan).

"Good" means a longer life with fewer diseases and less physical or mental
decline.

Some references:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Benefits>

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19112549>

<http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/health/he-fasting2>

~~~
dangero
Thank you.

~~~
pbreit
Did you really need someone to point that out for you or were you being
difficult?

~~~
crusso
Always keep the <http://lmgtfy.com> link in a copy/paste buffer for these
kinds of emergencies!

------
Steko
Via Wonkblog:

 _For those of us who generally don’t like food, consider it an annoyance, and
yearn for a way to avoid eating it, Soylent sounds immensely promising. But is
it safe?

Surprisingly, the answer from nutrition experts seems to be, “Yeah, probably.”
Jay Mirtallo is a professor of pharmacy at Ohio State and the immediate past
president of American Society for Parental Enteral Nutrition, which focuses on
the science and practice of providing food to patients through both
intravenous injections and feeding tubes. His main concern with Rhinehart’s
plan is that he’s making the concoction himself, rather than buying it from
reputable suppliers.

“He basically made medical food,” Mirtallo says. “If he wanted to switch to a
liquid diet, those are already available.”

Indeed they are. Companies like Abbott Nutrition and NestléHealthScience sell
dozens of medical food products.

...

I asked Mirtallo if I could live a healthy life just drinking medical food
from here on out. “You can completely,” he says. “But I don’t know why you’d
want to. There are so many social aspects to food in what we do.”

One potential downside is cost. Rhinehart claims that he only spends $154.82 a
month on Soylent. By contrast, a case of 24 eight-ounce cans of Jevity 1.5cal,
a high caloric density product Abbott sells for feeding tube patients, costs
$57 from Abbott’s Web store. As each can has 355 calories in it, you’d need
six cans a day to top the 2,000 calorie a day mark used in FDA nutrition data.
So a 24-pack would last you about four days. That works out to 7-8 packs a
month, which could cost up to $456._

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/14/r...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/14/rob-
rhinehart-has-a-crazy-plan-to-let-you-go-without-food-forever-it-just-might-
work/)

~~~
recuter
Previous discussion: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778>

Nestle produces something called Modulen specifically for people with IBD. The
idea is for people with Crohn's to switch to a liquid diet during bad flare
ups to settle things down as digesting food causes inflammation.

It is rather expensive. Luckily for me, my insurance covered it (I'm from
Israel, so YMMV). The hard part is that you have to pound a dozen glasses of
the stuff every day. Some people can't even drink that much water and this is
a heavy drink.

Soylent may be an improvement in terms of price and preparation because
Modulen comes in powder form and doesn't mix well with water and goops up
quickly. It is simply not easy getting it down.

To those of you suggesting this sort of thing can solve world hunger -
doubtful. I'm the only one my doctors know of who actually was able to adhere
to a liquid only diet for a stretch of multiple months, people simply don't
have the willpower.

You _miss_ food quite badly and are never satiated. What I think Soylent could
possibly be is an ultimate supplement, like a protein shake - in fact, fitness
companies like Beachbody (P90X) hawk all kinds of dubios concoctions, it is a
lucrative market. One that actually works would be neat.

~~~
FaddiCat
Abbott Nutrition has a range of nutritionally complete drinks called Ensure.
If you just can't be bothered eating that's probably the best way to go.

[http://www.abbottnutrition.com.au/Portals/0/img/Oral%20Nutri...](http://www.abbottnutrition.com.au/Portals/0/img/Oral%20Nutrition%20April%202012.pdf)

No idea how much it costs though.

~~~
duskwuff
Ensure is available over the counter. About 200 calories per dollar, if you
want to do the math that way.

~~~
schiffern
At the costs given, Soylent provides over 500 Calories/dollar.

------
confluence
This guy is effectively popularising something that has existed for ages in
the medical/weight loss industries: namely medical food/meal replacement
drinks. The difference is that he is using them daily, without paying the
premium for an off the shelf, tested, and regulated version by doing it
himself.

My question for those more experienced in this area is:

What well tested, off the shelf, medically regulated products could I buy
today that would allow me to eliminate the consumption of solid food
altogether - and of those products, which ones are the best value for money?

I really can't be bothered doing all the leg work required to make my own meal
replacement drink (reasons being: the chance of not measuring correctly + work
+ forgetting nutrients + risk) - I'd like to just grab a product every month
or so and just go.

~~~
pbreit
This all kind of sounds like the Jevity that they gave my dad in ICU.
Apparently you can stay on it for quite some time.
<http://abbottnutrition.com/Products/jevity-1_2-cal>

~~~
TheAnimus
Or _Scandishake_ which appears to be a popular brand in the UK. I always
remember trying to get my grandfarther to drink some when he was in the
hospice, I used to bribe him by talking about an analogue circuit from the Art
of Electronics, as he was mostly still in the mind of valves, but only if he
finished the drink. :(

------
bsmith
> Some people tell me going "ketogenic", or reducing carbs is healthy. I am
> now skeptical of this claim as lowering carbs makes me feel hungry and
> tired, and the drink taste less sweet. Perhaps it would be possible after an
> unpleasant transition period, but I don’t see the ultimate gain...

Their advice seems to fall in line with the paleo/primal philosophies—in a
nutshell: man only started eating a significant amount of carbohydrates after
the agriculturalization of cereals (grains) about 10,000 years ago. They argue
that wasn't enough time for us to evolve enough to adapt.

But to your point about feeling hungry and tired—I think it's because you're
addicted to carbs and sugar (like almost all of us are), but you don't NEED
carbs, at all. I tried primal for a month, and yes, the adjustment took a few
days (maybe a week). However, after I got over the sugar/carb cravings, my
energy levels where much more even throughout the day, sans-grains.

~~~
andrewfelix
_"in a nutshell: man only started eating a significant amount of carbohydrates
about 10,000 years ago."_

This is a myth and patently wrong. Anatomically modern humans evolved on a
diet of cooked food, the bulk of which was tubers and other root vegetables.

EDIT: 'tubas' -> 'tubers' derp.

~~~
onan_barbarian
This is also patently wrong; a paleolithic human could not have subsisted on a
diet of tubas, as they were not invented until the mid-19th century.

~~~
LaGrange
Parent said "modern", not "paleolithic". You are not a paleolithic human, and
if you are, welcome, time traveller.

~~~
cynicalkane
Modern humanity evolved to eat tubers in the last few centuries?

~~~
XorNot
We evolved to drink milk in only about a thousand years. It was evidently so
successful that huge swathes of the population are now lactose tolerant - but
only if they descended from particular groups which had access to it.

------
geoka9
Sorry, but after reading the following (elsewhere on that blog), I'm hard-
pressed not to dismiss this as an elaborate troll.

"I read a book on Number Theory in one sitting, a Differential Geometry book
in a weekend, filling up a notebook in the process."

~~~
vinceguidry
How is that implausible? He's an engineer by trade, mathematics is close
enough to computer science that most half-way decent programmers should be
able to read that level math casually given a good 'brain day'. I spent most
of my twenties neglecting math, decided one day to learn calculus, found it
pretty easy.

~~~
juiceandjuice
Comparing basic calculus to number theory is like comparing long division to
calculus. Saying "oh I know how to take the derivative" is a bit different
than knowing how to take the derivative of a complex expression by applying a
taylor expansion to estimate the rate of change within .01%.

For number theory, there's a few things you could pick up fairly easily, like
understanding what 1 and 3 mod 4 primes are, but there's no way you could do
the homework in 1 weekend unless you've aced real analysis, and then maybe you
could finish 10-20% of the homework (proofs) in a book in a weekend or so.

Many engineers I've met can't even handle using proof by induction to solve a
proof.

~~~
vinceguidry
If you read his words carefully, he said he "read a book on number theory." He
didn't claim mastery. Ditto for differential geometry. He simply absorbed
source material and took notes. Quite feasible.

------
aroberge
This is just a marketing ploy - otherwise, the ingredients and instructions as
to how to make it would have been provided for free on the blog. And no, I
don't buy the excuses that have been made as to why the list of actual
ingredients can not be provided.

~~~
kkwok
Not disagreeing, but a previous post does list the ingredients:
<http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424>

~~~
Udo
Exactly. This is most likely a marketing ploy, but the ingredient list is
there, anybody could mix that up and try it - no magical sauce here.

I have to admit it's interesting to follow this experiment, though. As
bootstrapped marketing schemes go, I've seen much worse.

~~~
alex_doom
Marketing for what? There's nothing being sold, he lists the items he uses and
amounts. Why would a marketer give away the secret sauce.

~~~
lutze
He just gives nutritional information, not an ingredients list.

In the latest post he mentions that several chemists have figured out how to
make his concoction, but he explicitly states he's not making the recipe
public yet.

~~~
Udo
He gves a list of ingredients, each with the precise amount used, doesn't he?
I thought that was pretty self-explanatory. Sure, he didn't say where he got
them from or how he mixes them, but someone dedicated would be able to figure
it out. It's not rocket science, uh, chemistry!

------
m_d
I have a great deal of respect for self-experimenters, no matter how crazy
they seem.

That said, I'd like to see him compare two months of Soylent to two months of
eating solid meals with a similar nutritional profile. Most of the benefits he
has experienced are probably just a result of extremely well-balanced diet,
not anything specifically related to Soylent.

~~~
gnaritas
> Most of the benefits he has experienced are probably just a result of
> extremely well-balanced diet

That's rather the point of Soylent, to deliver a well balanced diet.

> not anything specifically related to Soylent.

This statement makes little sense, he merely claimed Soylent was a way to
achieve good nutrition, not that it was magic.

~~~
gwern
> That's rather the point of Soylent, to deliver a well balanced diet.

Comparing a well-balanced diet with Soylent is not a waste of time: if nothing
else, it's evidence for the debate about whether all the micronutrients and
random stuff in 'real' food is subjectively noticeable in the short-term or
whether you really can get away with just macronutrients and a few other
chemicals.

~~~
gnaritas
I don't see how what you said related in any way to what I said. Where did I
say anything was a waste of time?

~~~
jongraehl
To recap, m_d wishes to see a comparison at the same protein+fat+carbs (normal
non-junk food) vs. soylent.

gnaritas objects.

gwern supports m_d.

gnaritas has an opportunity to qualify his objection, but chooses not to.

(fwiw, I'm also extremely interested in all manner of "are there valuable yet-
to-be-identified substances in real food" experiments.)

~~~
gnaritas
Bad recap, I didn't object, try again.

------
paxtonab
"I didn't give up food, I just got rid of the bad food."

After reading the 1st HN abut this I was skeptical, but this sentence fully
convinced me that Rinehart is on to something. Imagine a world with a quick,
healthy, affordable lunch substitute that negated the 'need' to eat fast food
when you feel pressed for time at work... Thankfully this only happens to me 2
or 3 times a month , but I'm guessing that for most of America that's more
like 2 or 3 times a week.

~~~
eru
Couldn't you just fast those days? (And I mean you as in you, not those other
Americans.)

------
tantalor
How exactly does Soylent solve world hunger? I've heard we produce more than
enough food to solve hunger already, and much is wasted. Is the food too
expensive?

Is Soylent much more shelf stable?

~~~
ChuckMcM
The components of Soylent (as listed in an earlier blog post) are chemically
stable at room temperature. (caveat the probiotics). (this from looking them
up in the 'rubber bible' [1]) I would expect you could spoil them if they got
too hot (oxidizing) but other than that doesn't look too bad.

Assuming the $150/month calculated, that's still pretty pricey for someone who
makes $1-$2 a day in wages. Its not clear to me how to calculate how that cost
compares to sending sacks of wheat or rice.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC_Handbook_of_Chemistry_and_P...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC_Handbook_of_Chemistry_and_Physics)

~~~
jff
If I could keep myself fully nourished for $5/day ($150/month), I'd be pretty
damn happy. We don't even have to talk about the third world to see possible
benefits. We're always hearing about how America's poor don't have time to
prepare food and are thus "forced" to buy, essentially, McDonald's. Well, you
can feed yourself 3 sandwiches off the dollar menu a day on that budget, or
for $5/day you can get (theoretically) everything you need with no more effort
than mixing up a glass of Tang.

~~~
ChuckMcM
You may or may not be old enough to remember "instant breakfast" [1] but it
was a "week 2" meal in my dorm in college, meaning if your stipend/outside
income was limited to a bi-weekly paycheck you could "get by" if some of last
few meals in week 2 were just instant breakfast. Rice/beans/tortillas were a
better choice but had more prep time.

That said, it's an interesting question on the market for food products the
broader desirability for a product like Soylent. As a minimalist I'm
intrigued, as a foodie I'm appalled :-) But could it put a dent in the
McFranchises of the world? Perhaps. Could it, or a similarly engineered
product provide the missing nutrition for at risk populations? If so what
prevents it? (I'm watching for similar ideas to appear on the market if this
gets any more press than it has)

I note however that 'feeding the poor' with a product like this might not get
the reception an engineer/scientist might expect. As others have mentioned
there are some cultural stereotypes built up around food and meals which are
not well supported by an engineered food product that is designed merely to be
nutritious.

[1] <http://caloriecount.about.com/tag/food/instantbreakfast>

~~~
jff
Yep, I've had "instant breakfast", it can even be tasty if you don't have it
very often.

When writing my comment, I wasn't really considering the sociological
implications of where I was going, I was simply thinking that _I_ , if living
on a $5/day food budget, would be pretty happy with something like Soylent,
especially since I presumably wouldn't get that general feeling of malaise
that overtakes you after a few McDonald's meals in a row.

You're right, you can't simply go in and say, "Dear poor people, please
consume this nutritious gloop". It could be effective as a form of rations in
case of emergency, but attempting to put it out there as a basic staple food
would be more challenging.

If Soylent is actually as awesome as the creator makes it sound, and it were
available in a tub or in pouches at the grocery store, I'd definitely buy it.

------
jheimark
I'm confused. Is soylent the same thing as soylent green? In which case, this
is a satirical post (but I don't find it very funny)...

If not, isn't soylent just about the worst possible name for a real food
product (with unknown/nonspecific ingredients), because of the movie?

~~~
Cyranix
I can't find the link where I read this now, but apparently Soylent was
largely composed of soya and lentils in the book version. See also the
published list of ingredients to assuage your fears.

------
lnanek2
Couldn't you just buy Ensure or some other meal shake at the local pharmacy?

~~~
dandelany
You could, but what fun would that be? :) In seriousness though, much of OP's
intent was to make Soylent as affordable as possible. To that end, a quick
cost comparison:

You can buy 24 8-oz Ensure drinks _on sale_ from Amazon for $42.50. Each drink
contains 350 calories, so: (24 * 350) / $42.50 = 198 kcal/dollar.

Rob claims to get 2629 calories a day from Soylent, and his monthly costs were
$154.82, so: (30 * 2629) / $154.82 = 509 kcal/dollar. Soylent is 2.5x cheaper
than Ensure (based on calories alone).

~~~
stan_rogers
That's WAY overpriced. I live a good part of my life on the stuff (swallowing
problems arising from Parkinsonism) and at local pharmacies it's regularly on
sale for $9 for a six-pack (bottles, not cans—they're almost always more
expensive in cans, and the cans and bottles are the same size), or $36 for 24.
But that's if you buy the Abbot-branded stuff; most of the large pharmacy
chains sell a house-brand version for a little less ($7/six-pack, or $28/24,
in Toronto is not unusual for Shoppers' Life Brand, and there's a President's
Choice version in the Loblaws chain as well). Note that there are three
versions: regular (intended as a top-up supplement for people who are eating,
just not well), "plus calories" (mostly more fat), and "plus protein", each of
which is aimed at people with different requirements.

And no, it's not an adequate diet replacement for the average case. If you
really don't like food and consider it an inconvenience, maybe—but that ain't
normal. And it's not just a matter of getting used to it (goodness knows I've
had enough of the stuff); normal people actually enjoy the tastes and textures
of good food.

------
shurcooL
I can't wait for the Kickstarter.

But, it seems strange that this is coming from one guy rather than big
companies. If it is possible to sell food/food replacement for cheaper this
way, why hasn't anyone jumped on the chance to outsell others by selling for
less?

~~~
rodly
This is a good point. My thoughts are that Soylent and other cheap concoctions
have a large acquired taste that most consumers can't get over.

------
dustinupdyke
"I also stopped running 7 miles, which is really unnecessary and potentially
harmful to the heart and joints"

Source?

~~~
manmal
I found this:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1837113/pdf/bmj0...](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1837113/pdf/bmj00240-0029.pdf)

Long-distance running is reported to predict hip joints degeneration. But it
does not find out which distance is good and which is bad.

~~~
NuZZ
I think he was after information concerning the heart and running as join
degradation from running is, afaik, common knowledge. I was under the
impression running improved heart strength.

[http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/heart-attack-risks-are-
great...](http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/heart-attack-risks-are-greater-for-
athletes-who-compete-in-endurance-sports-263)

Such articles state that endurance running (as opposed to sprints) , or any
edurancy activity, increase heart attack chance.

No exercise is purported as the greatest heart risk, so perhaps high intensity
low endurance is best for heart health? I'd imagine it wouldn't build stamina.

------
juskrey
This guy is becoming a prominent fragilista.

~~~
jaggederest
This is an interesting comment, prompted me to look up what that term
'fragilista' means.

So you're saying he fails to anticipate a future negative consequence of
present behavior? I guess we'll find out!

------
paduc
I wonder if this guy realizes his teeth are going to fall off. Since he has
very little chewing action, the gums and underlying bone are going to go soft
and eventually the teeth are going to begin falling off.

But who cares, right? He doesn't really need his teeth.

He should be prepared to accept a new and maybe uncommon physical shape.

~~~
zen_boy
Someone proposed chewing gum as a way around this. This gives the jaw some
exercise as well.

------
auctiontheory
All this talk of chemical drinks and medical foods and intermittent fasting
reminds me of the saying about another diet regimen: "Do vegetarians live
longer, or does it just feel that way?"

------
sukuriant
I think the biggest thing I want to remark here is that he needs to go to the
doctor frequently while he's running these experiments. Once every couple of
weeks or once every month. He could be doing serious harm to himself and he
won't know until it's too late. Blood work might also give some interesting
insights, such as "his bad cholesterol levels are lower than I've ever seen,
this is amazing!" which would be useful in helping to push his encouragement
of it.

~~~
caublestone
In his previous blog posts, he discusses doctor visits. His cholesterol levels
were unhealthy before he started the diet, now he is in the normal range. In
order to sign up to be a tester, you must provide blood test results.

------
5partan
I see he has done his homework by adding choline. well done.

------
duck
Other HN thread from a couple days ago:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778>

------
nazgulnarsil
Easy version (not nutritionally complete but a decent meal replacement) if
anyone is interested, comments welcome.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdG5...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdG56UTZoLVBEMHBqM0VJQUt6YmV0dUE)

I always add whey to this for additional protein, which I didn't list because
composition varies and it is micronutrient poor anyway.

~~~
batgaijin
Is he using whey right now? I think it'd be insanely cheap online.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
2-3cents/gram of protein is usual if you shop by price. The whole shake comes
in around $2 with a scoop (25g protein) of whey.

Been getting ~50% of calories from this for the last year. Blood panel so far
looks very very good, but I'm due for another one.

------
stephengillie
While your project is crazy, you've inspired me to try eating 1/2 of a
600-calorie sandwich every 3 hours. The points about disconnecting our energy
source from our entertainment resonates with me, and I'm becoming more aware
of the benefits of a consistent calorie supply.

The FDA recommends a crazy amount of potassium. Most people don't get that
much potassium in their diets.

~~~
eru
Interesting. Why would you want to have a constant calorie supply? Our bodies
are very adapt at buffering. (Especially if you abstain from the simpler
carbohydrates.)

------
rms
I don't question the premise here, but I question the research and specific
formulation.

I'm more specifically intrigued by the formulation behind something like Chori
bar. [http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Chori-bar-nutritious-
pu...](http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Chori-bar-nutritious-punch-for-
poor-eating-habits-3571765.php)

------
jilted3
The problem with this idea long-term is that the body will 'plateau' and what
may happen is decreased immunity and inability to adapt to natural seasonal
and/or drastic weather changes. The body is not so simple as to be relegated
to some normalizing diet. Food is as much about energetics than just
protein/carbs/calories.

------
NuZZ
"Scars that I'd had for years are barely visible now."

Anyone have any idea whatthe root (ingredient) of this subjective observation
may be?

~~~
illuminate
Agreed with lilsunnybee, but these claims make it incredibly hard to take the
rest seriously. The author is an unreliable narrator.

------
nathan_f77
Hopefully moving to San Francisco in a few weeks. Very keen to get in touch
and try it out.

------
goggles99
This product would never work for me (I can't speak for everyone else) because
such a thin, denatured substance transfers into the intestines (digests)
rather quickly. This leaves the stomach empty and me feeling hungry. My brain
starts to make me feel bad at this point. Even if I have consumed 4000
calories, it does not care. My brain wants some food in there.

This is one of the same reasons why babies who can't eat solids yet need to
eat so often? They can't even sleep all night because they wake up hungry. The
day you start to feed them some cereal for dinner, they sleep much longer.

~~~
crusso
Have you tried going on a low-carb diet? I found that after passing through
the induction phase, my very healthy appetite was dramatically reduced. It was
like flipping a switch. Suddenly, a normal salad felt satisfying and enough to
be considered "a meal".

------
humanspecies
All the time you "save" with this sort of bullshit diet will be spent in a
hospital sooner than later.

You need your fucking vegetables, you need fruit, you need to chew and you
need to sleep. It's as simple as that.

------
workbench
> For those of us who generally don’t like food, consider it an annoyance, and
> yearn for a way to avoid eating it

Words fail me

------
magnetikonline
It's people?

