
To-Do Lists Are Not the Answer to Getting Things Done - ingve
https://medium.com/personal-growth/to-do-lists-are-not-the-answer-to-getting-things-done-f38ff04c53d4
======
crazygringo
I don't know about most people, but this works _terribly_ for me. Motivation
is _huge_ for my happiness, so I want to do something when I'm in the _mood_
for it.

This means I _do_ keep a list of the things I need to get done, so whenever
I've got free time, I take a look at the list and see what I'm most in the
mood to do.

Of course, this is the real world -- sometimes something has a firm deadline
so you have no choice (so of course you do things you aren't in the mood for).

But I want to run errands when I'm in the mood to go outside. I want to go to
them gym when I'm feeling energetic. I want to wash dishes or clean my
apartment when my brain is conked out anyways. I want to work on a hobby when
I'm feeling creative. I want to read a book when I'm feeling relaxed.

Or at work, I might be in the mood for writing e-mails, or working on a
presentation, or chatting about a project, or catching up on reading. They'll
all get done eventually, but why not do the one you'll most enjoy at the
moment, as long as you can?

And I know myself well enough to know I _never_ have any idea what I'm going
to feel when. Will I be feeling energetic or creative or conked out tonight
after work? Tomorrow when I wake up? The day after on my lunch break? Who
knows!

Scheduling time to do my things is a disaster for my happiness. I'm sure it
can work for other people, but it's not for everyone.

~~~
coldtea
> _I don 't know about most people, but this works terribly for me. Motivation
> is huge for my happiness, so I want to do something when I'm in the mood for
> it._

That's a sure-fire recipe for never doing most things one needs to do, because
most of those things are not things that one looks forward to anyway.

Even for the core work someone does (e.g. writing for a writer), people
mention time and again that setting up times in advance and committing to them
works better than getting in the mood.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I concur. If you schedule in advance, it's much easier to break through the
initial emotional barrier of starting the thing you're anxious about.

I used to hate scheduling, now I swear by it. The change was entirely in my
understanding what "scheduling" means. I used to treat this as iron-strong
commitments. Those made me dislike scheduling because I felt I'm losing
autonomy over my own life. Now, I treat scheduling in advance as my best-
effort _plan_ for efficiently doing what I want, subject to revision at any
point I deem necessary. I found allowing myself to shuffle the schedule around
as I need made it feel liberating, and my worries about losing autonomy pretty
much disappeared.

~~~
setharb
You may want to try SkedPal. The Fuzzy Planning behind it works exactly as you
described. [http://www.skedpal.net/help/skedpal-basic-scheduling-
concept...](http://www.skedpal.net/help/skedpal-basic-scheduling-concepts/)

------
bootload
_" When you schedule things, you are forced to deal with the fact that there
are only so many hours in a week. You’re forced to make choices rather than
add something to a never ending to-do list that only becomes a source of
anxiety."_

Great observation. I get the feeling _scheduling_ is something that MBAs are
taught, where _" time is the restriction"_. What about JIT scheduling? In my
view, adding dates to every task is another BS and unnecessary task. Here's an
alternative restriction, tasks per day. _" Ivy Ledbetter Lee"_ (business
productivity guru 100 years ago) had another approach. Spend 15min at end of
day doing the following:

* specify six tasks you need to finish

* prioritise them one to six

* do each task, in order, till finished

* work your arse off

* left-over tasks are added to tomorrows list

* repeat

The restriction here is how many tasks I NEED to do TODAY. Read more about _"
Ivy Ledbetter Lee"_ below.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12999116](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12999116)

~~~
jetru
Oh, wow, JITing TODO lists, this is why I love Hacker News

------
tarr11
I create todo lists because I forget what I wanted to do within minutes, or
even seconds.

Having a todo list at hand to write these things down means I don't lose them,
even if I don't look at them again for weeks or months.

Not sure where you'd put this on a Calendar.

~~~
manmal
Are you overworked or super stressed? You should not forget things this easily
- I was the same in the first half of the year, and it was due to almost
unbearable stress.

~~~
Uw7yTcf36gTc
we are all overworked. todo lists are the only ways to add to the backlog.

------
kriro
The greatest insight I had when it comes to time management came from a
surprising source. I had played around a bit with Pomodoro for my typical
intellectual tasks (research, programming etc.) with no real success.

Then on a summer weekend my sister asked me to help her renovate her
apartment, specifically I was tasked with the removal of all the wallpapers. I
said sure, give me the key and I'll get going over the weekend and actually
dropped by Friday after work...by chance I had my Pomodoro timer in my work
backpack. I looked around and came to the conclusion that I had absolutely no
idea how long it would take me to tear everything down. So I guessed how much
I could do in 25 minutes, set the timer (25 minutes) and went to work. I got
less done than expected and I suppose you could say I started a Bayesian
process of sorts updating my priors but most importantly I realized that
knowing how much time something roughly takes is extremely valuable in
scheduling work.

I went on to calculate roughly how many tomatoes it would take to get each
room done and since there wasn't much time left on the Friday figured I could
get one of the tiny ones done. It worked, the estimation was fairly accurate
and I actually caught myself trying to beat my estimates. On Saturday I had a
great plan and a firm goal (get the living room and one extra room done). I
eventually settled in on 2 tomatoes followed by a 15 minute break. Worked
great.

tl;dr: Ever since that I get more done whenever I know how long it'll roughly
take. That means exploring is very valuable. For new tasks I estimate in
tomatoes, draw a circle for each and get going. When it takes longer I add
squares and once the task is done I update my mental image of how long it'll
take in the future.

Whenever I don't know how long something might take I tend to procrastinate a
lot until I force myself to timebox it. I think most interesting tasks tend to
fall in this category.

------
coliveira
I think the big mistake of people talking about productivity is the idea that
a single formula works for everyone. For example, I finally discovered that I
am most productive when I have no todo lists. I just work better by simply
picking whatever has highest priority in my mind and doing it. The point is,
if something is important it should be on your mind. If it is not, it probably
is not important or urgent. Of course, if something needs to be remembered you
make notes, but nothing similar to a todo list. Whenever I have a todo list I
instinctively start to slack off.

------
sixdimensional
How about this - different people respond well to different organizational
methods? Perhaps like many things there is not a one size fits all solution.

For me, todo lists in the form of a Kanban board with columns that hold longer
term "need to remember" tasks really help so I don't forget those things. And
when I am sitting idle wondering what to do next, I have a list ready (unless
something else pops up that is higher priority).

I think over scheduling might lead to its own inflexibility and paralysis as
well. But it might work great for some people!

------
pella
Steve Blank (2010) Strategy is Not a To Do List

[https://steveblank.com/2010/10/07/strategy-is-not-a-to-do-
li...](https://steveblank.com/2010/10/07/strategy-is-not-a-to-do-list/)

~~~
bootload
nice observation, understand strategy before todo otherwise it's a rudderless
ship

------
pacomerh
I've been trying having 2 lists. One I call the bucket, where I have things I
need to do but don't know when yet. And the other is for things I need to do
today. So when today is depleted I pull stuff from the bucket. The only
challenge here is putting realistic tasks for the 'today' list. I've noticed
that I can only put like 2 or 3 max to actually make this work. The best part
of making a very short list is that you can actually finish it, and it kinda
motivates you to do a little extra if you have time.

~~~
yodon
You may want to read up on Kanban, it sounds like you're well on your way to
starting to invent the Kanban process for yourself

------
chvid
Use a calendar instead of a todo-list because that's what the most successful
people do.

There. I saved you a bit of time so now you too can go be more "most
successful".

------
oddlyaromatic
I find that this fails if your job involves putting out fires and responding
to unpredictable client needs. I used to make a very concrete schedule at the
start of a week and by midweek most of it was out the window. I do usually
keep small must-do-this-week list, and the key for me in planning is
estimating the duration of each task so that I can take advantage of what time
I do get, and choose the right task for the time I have.

~~~
nhebb
When I was a manufacturing engineer, I used to have a short list of long term
projects, a fair list of medium term projects, and a long list of tasks. A
rolling todo list was the only way to stay on top of things.

You can't be the Pinball Wizard when the job requires you to be the pinball.

~~~
bigger_cheese
>When I was a manufacturing engineer, I used to have a short list of long term
projects, a fair list of medium term projects, and a long list of tasks. A
rolling todo list was the only way to stay on top of things.

I'm in a similar situation. This is what works for me. I use a spreadsheet to
keep track of what I'm working on currently and my progress so far. I don't
update it all the time - probably something like every 3 to 4 days. sometimes
it's as simple as adding a line to say "Emailed Phil with my recommendations,
waiting to hear back from him - call him if no word by 23rd".

I'm constantly having to jump between various projects. This is the only way
I've found to keep track of status of various things. Sometimes I'll be out on
plant dealing with an issue all day or supervising a trial or tied up with
meetings etc. Before I adopted this system it was a nightmare picking things
up again after a few days away from my desk.

~~~
cableshaft
A spreadsheet is an interesting thought for juggling status of a bunch of
different projects. I'll try that, thanks!

~~~
oddlyaromatic
Check out airtable- I use it for a similar purpose for long term things.

------
vaibhavsagar
There's a more comprehensive article here:

[http://rz.github.io/articles/2016/oct/time-on-your-
side.html](http://rz.github.io/articles/2016/oct/time-on-your-side.html)

------
lathiat
A little markety but seems like good advice.

Personally though I always need a back burner / ice box (think agile) but in
part its handling for the fact that I have bad memory and then can relax a
little more that I won't forget it.

------
renaudg
My personal experience is 100% in line with this, and it's beyond me why none
of the major todo list apps feature drag & drop calendar integration.

I'm reluctantly using Things, and the closest thing it has is due dates and
"hide this task until that date". Surely, it wouldn't be that hard to
implement a daily planner view that brings up your day's calendar in the right
pane, a list of upcoming tasks in the left one, and lets you drag them across
?

I feel orphaned ever since Google acqui-hired then shut down the only app that
really nailed this workflow : Timeful. Its AI-based autoscheduling was only a
bonus, the UI was marvelous. See [https://gmail.googleblog.com/2015/05/time-
is-on-your-sidewel...](https://gmail.googleblog.com/2015/05/time-is-on-your-
sidewelcoming-timeful.html) or for some background info:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-
leadership/wp/2014/08...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-
leadership/wp/2014/08/14/dan-ariely-wants-to-help-you-manage-your-time/)

Parts of Timeful have been added to the Google Calendar app but it's lacking,
and nowhere near as close to a complete, magical and satisfying system as
Timeful was.

More than a year later, I'm still desperately looking for good alternatives.
"Plan" ([https://getplan.co/](https://getplan.co/)) looks promising but not
quite polished enough, and "Skedpal" seems overkill.

Anyone else in this situation ?

~~~
ethiclub
IQTELL.com has 'virtual calendars'. Anything with a due date appears on the
calendar automatically. Unfortunately you can't sync these calendars with any
other app. Alternatively you can also add an action to an actual calendar
manually.

Yes, I have been looking for a split pane drag and drop solution too. No dice.
Regardless, IQTELL is so powerful though that no matter when I find an elegant
solution, it falls short in other areas anyway.

------
xiaoma
_" I’ve helped thousands of people — from NFL Coaches and Four Star Generals
to best-selling authors and hedge fund managers — feel less busy and get more
done.

I get asked for advice on improving productivity so much so that I’ve packaged
most of it into an online seminar that I call Insanely More Productive."_

Why is an advertisement for a $59 online seminar on the front page of HN? Nice
title aside, I'm flagging this.

~~~
kareemm
If you look past the ad, the author's main point is a great piece of advice. A
task takes time, so if you're going to do it you should schedule it. It's easy
to put something on a todo list because you're not committing to doing it;
you're just putting it on a list which causes anxiety.

~~~
xiaoma
When you look past the ad, there's yet another pitch at the bottom and it's
not along piece.

------
tra3
As an aside, an important facet of self organization is time tracking. Does HN
have a good way of time tracking? I dislike the stop/start method? Something
like stochastic time tracking
([https://github.com/dreeves/TagTime](https://github.com/dreeves/TagTime))
perhaps (but that actually works).

------
eukaryote
I use a simple version of a TO-DO list. I have a email folder ACTION, and
mails with a subject prefix of TODO are moved there with an auto-rule. My wife
also adds reminders to the TODO list as required.

This works well for me; I have weekly timesheet and billing to do, and it
keeps track of where I am in the workflow. An automated job on my server mails
me the weekly tasks required in the subject, and I delete each mail as the
task is complete. For example my weekly automated tasks are

    
    
       TODO: create invoice
       TODO: add invoice to finance spreadsheet
       TODO: complete timesheet
       TODO: save approved timesheet
       TODO: mail invoice and timesheet to customer
       TODO: confirm scheduled payment received
       TODO: perform weekly backup
       TODO: CAR1 check oil
       TODO: CAR1 tyre pressures
       TODO: CAR1 water jet reservoir
       TODO: CAR2 check oil
       TODO: CAR2 tyre pressures
       TODO: CAR2 water jet reservoir
    

This allows certain tasks to be performed when the weather is appropriate.

------
dosethree
The problem with using calendars is actually you're pretty flexible about when
you want to get most stuff done, you just have a deadline. But you don't want
to do it at the last minute, so for a weekend task you want to check in a few
times to see if you are not too busy to do it.

[http://www.dueapp](http://www.dueapp) lets you put a time to be reminded and
that has really clear snooze functionality. So I procrastinate a lot (snooze)
but I'm always aware of it in case I have a deadline, and I don't have to
worry about remember it.

(I'm unaffiliated with Due I just love the product)

------
hexsprite
The philosophy behind scheduling your to dos makes total sense -- if it’s in
your calendar, it’s actionable, realistic, and more likely to get done.

Only problem is that it's tedious and time consuming to actually schedule each
item.

I created Focuster ([http://focuster.com](http://focuster.com)) to solve this
problem by automatically scheduling your to dos for you.

An extra bonus is that it reschedules based on cancellations and new
appointments.

Would love any feedback you guys might have!

------
perlpimp
While scheduling is great sometimes you've really got to pareto your way to
whats important. It is important to keep near and far perspective at all
times, not to have your time be eaten by menial tasks... that something I am
guilty of. If I am slipping I would take a break and try to reframe what is
important as something interesting, ask yourself - how this can be exciting,
interesting to you?

my 2c.

------
spoinkaroo
Agreed - I personally have a giant running to-do list which I use to put stuff
down on and get out of my head, and then never look at it again.

------
paulsutter
I use a to-do list for things that are important but outside my focus. Prepare
records for my accountant, errands to complete before a trip, a random
deadline, etc. If it's inside my focus I don't need to write it down, and if
it's not important, it's not getting done.

I think these matters vary enormously for each person. Using a tool badly
doesn't make it a bad tool.

------
pdq
This is a repeat of the famous Getting Things Done book, which covers
prioritizing your life through organization and scheduling.

~~~
BeetleB
>This is a repeat of the famous Getting Things Done book, which covers
prioritizing your life through organization and scheduling.

Pretty much the opposite!

David Allen is against scheduling anything other than _hard_ deadlines. The
ones which if you miss, you really miss! The examples in the article are the
ones he tells you _never_ to put in the calendar (groceries, date night, etc).
Anything that you _can_ delay means it does not belong in there.

He does have a tickler file, but that's merely for reminding you, and only at
the day granularity.

~~~
starquake
I agree, this is the opposite of Getting Things Done. I've been using the GTD
method (quite obsessively) for about a year now and I love it. I've got clean
workspace where everything is waiting for me to do stuff. I have a system of
lists categorized by Next Actions, Someday/Maybe, Projects and so on. Both
digitally and with paper.

When I saw the title I was surprised. And my experiences are quite the
opposite of what I'm reading in the article. My life improved a lot by using
lists.

The problem of having to guess how long stuff takes and the cascading effect
of constantly having to reschedule everything was very depressing for me.

Nowadays I'm doing the important stuff from the Next Actions list and do
something from the Someday/Maybe list for fun. And my calendar and reminders
make sure I do the time critical stuff at the time it needs to be done.

This article sounds insane to me.

------
sdx23
This is totally in accordance with: "Work expands so as to fill the time
avaible for its completion." \- which I found to be very true. I'm so much
more productive, when time restricted. And even more so when schedule
restricted, because you can't just say you take a short break which then
extends for hours.

------
bsg75
The tricky part for this approach is knowing the order things can get done.
Days can be dynamic.

I'm wondering if a schedule without times but only durations would be an
upgrade from the ToDo list, showing how much can be accomplished in a day, or
how long it will take to complete a list.

Did I just describe a personal Gantt chart?

------
dsr_
Why, he's taken a to-do list and prioritized it and assigned deadlines! Then
put those deadlines in the calendar!

Just like pretty much every to-do list suggests you do.

~~~
aaachilless
The whole point of the article is that visualizing time as space on a calendar
is qualitatively different than adding todos to a list because it helps us
remember that our time is finite. While the finiteness of our time is an
obvious fact, it's the kind of thing that many of us 'forget'. I, for one,
found this short article valuable.

------
zilchers
_That’s how the most successful people use lists … under a specific time
block._

Wow, talk about a spectacular exaggeration.

------
hyperpallium
> SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE DON’T MAKE TO-DO LISTS.

Request for disproof: Any successful people here make to-do lists?

~~~
acjohnson55
My wife is ultra-productive and is a todo-list person. She does have a
tendency to overcommit, which scheduling would help with. But that hasn't
stopped her from being quite successful, and she works at a PR firm, which is
a job has all sorts of tasks that continually emerge and require
prioritization.

I'm less so a todo-list person, but I do use them help to clear my headspace,
more so than to run my day. I plan to experiment with more scheduling to
enhance my productivity. I don't think I'm the sort that wants to go to the
extreme with it, but I think I may find it helpful.

------
vorotato
I use a bullet journal, it has been lifechanging. So yknow, do what works for
you.

------
coleifer
Nor is reading (or writing) blog posts. Or comments.

------
sean_patel
Marketing Material. TLDR; Version: In order to get things done, you don't just
make a list. You also add Time (calendar) and Place (if applicable) to the
Task.

This is same thing someone (can't remember) said that TODO lists get done only
if you also put a time and place to each TODO Task.

~~~
ethbro
Personally, I like the Any.do approach of categorizing all ToDo items into
Today, Tomorrow, Upcoming, Someday.

It splits the difference between flexibility and awareness of time
limitations.

------
vishnubansal
The same old thing peope talk about thousands of time. This is just a
marketing article to promote the $59 seminar:
[https://www.bewaymoreproductive.com](https://www.bewaymoreproductive.com)

~~~
Kurimo
Came to the comments to post this, so thanks for beating me to it.

Any time someone says they have "the secret," they are selling you something.
And more often than not, there's a good amount of snake oil in that bottle.

~~~
ianai
Life hack: grab the important bits from the comments and skimming the post
here.

------
Neliquat
Good article, but a quarter page nag screen (on mobile) I can not dismiss is
pretty annoying and I nearly gave up reading.

------
coldshower
A hybrid of TODO, scheduling and contextual seems to work best for me. I'm
using Nozbe and it's about perfect:
[http://nozbe.com/a-jasoncomely](http://nozbe.com/a-jasoncomely)

------
adictator
Click bait title!

