

The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style - lionhearted
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/gangnam-style-dissected-the-subversive-message-within-south-koreas-music-video-sensation/261462/

======
steve8918
I've been traveling in Asia, and was in Korea this last week when Gangnam
style really took off, at least on my Facebook feed.

I asked one of my tour guides about this, not knowing anything about the
relevance of the video, and she basically echoed a lot of the comments about
how it was poking fun at Korean materialism and superficialism. She said that
Korean culture has really shifted in the last few decades. Her grandparents'
and her parents' generation, she said, were very hard-working, and transformed
their country from a post-war, 3rd world country into one of the powerhouse
economies in the world. But her generation (she said she was 27) wasn't nearly
as hardworking, and is enjoying the fruits of her parents labor without
putting as much in.

She said that the Korean culture had turned very materialistic and superficial
as well. Korean males have started to use a lot of the same makeup that
females traditionally wear, like foundation, etc. Many girls will have
cosmetic surgery done right after high school so that their college graduation
pictures will look good, which she said was very important to females. She
said her sister practices smiling in the mirror for 15 mins every day, in
order to get a certain crease in her mouth, which apparently is the sign of
wealth and good luck. She said "double-eyelid surgery" (I guess a type of
surgery to add a crease in the eyelids which many Koreans do not have) is so
common, that girls don't even consider it surgery anymore. Most eyelid
surgeries come with a 2-for-1 deal where they throw in a nosejob as well, and
new techniques are constantly being developed, like a form of injection that
will lift the nose up temporarily, like a nose job.

I found this absolutely incredible, and I said to the tour guide that it must
be very hard growing up as a female, with all this pressure. She said that it
was only 30% of the female population that engaged in all this
materialism/superficialism, and that left 70% of the females that didn't care
about it. It was a good attitude, but still 30% seemed awful high to me.

My guess is that this is just a phase that developed (or developing) nations
go through, and social commentary like this Gangnam style are the first steps
in seeing a "reversion to the mean", where things become a lot less extreme.

~~~
w1ntermute
> I asked one of my tour guides about this, not knowing anything about the
> relevance of the video, and she basically echoed a lot of the comments about
> how it was poking fun at Korean materialism and superficialism.

And this has upset many Koreans[0]. The the so-called "Korean wave", or
"hallyu", of Korean pop music has flooded all of Asia over the last decade or
so. If you're not familiar with K-pop, it consists of bland, but catchy, music
involving very attractive (by Asian standards, anyway) men and women who are
more of entertainers than they are just singers. All songs come with intricate
dance moves that people all over Asia, from Thailand to Indonesia to
Singapore, absorb and learn with great interest. The K-pop "idols" regularly
appear on TV shows and in commercials all across Asia.

Regardless of the lack of musical merit in their work, you can be sure that
these artists (with lots of help from their agencies) put an enormous amount
of work into producing and presenting a polished product, which is a
significant reason that they've succeeded all across a continent where half-
assing it has been the standard procedure since time immemorial. Yet all of
their attempts to break into the US market have resulted in absolute failure
(for a variety of reasons that I won't get into here). The fact that a "funny
guy" like Psy, who doesn't necessarily follow all the hallyu conventions, has
been the first to make headway in America, is really bothersome to them. It's
not the image that "they" (as a nation, and Korean national identity is _very_
strong) wanted to present.

The same is true of Korean TV shows ("K-dramas"). They've become extremely
popular across Asia, even among Korea's former colonial masters, the Japanese.
The plots are cliche, the characters 2-dimensional, and the acting horrible,
but damned if the cinematography isn't top notch, the sets beautiful, and the
actors/actresses even more beautiful (once again, thanks to the magic of
plastic surgery).

> She said that Korean culture has really shifted in the last few decades. Her
> grandparents' and her parents' generation, she said, were very hard-working,
> and transformed their country from a post-war, 3rd world country into one of
> the powerhouse economies in the world. But her generation (she said she was
> 27) wasn't nearly as hardworking, and is enjoying the fruits of her parents
> labor without putting as much in.

This is absolutely true. As explained here[1]: _no matter how long one has
lived in Korea, it is impossible to appreciate how deep the generational gap
runs among Koreans of different generations unless one has meaningful
interactions with Koreans in their teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and above. On
one hand you have your Koreans in their 60s who grew up in constant danger of
death from war and starvation, and on the other hand you have your Koreans in
their teens who are self-absorbed, battling obesity problem._

> She said "double-eyelid surgery" (I guess a type of surgery to add a crease
> in the eyelids which many Koreans do not have) is so common, that girls
> don't even consider it surgery anymore.

The medical term for what she was referring to is "epicanthoplasty"[2]. An
Economist article from a few months ago[3] confirms that South Korea tops the
plastic surgery charts. The epicanthic fold[4] is present in most
Mongoloids[5], which includes most East and Southeast Asians. In fact, South
Korea's plastic surgery industry has drawn customers from all across Asia,
including people who come with a picture of their favorite hallyu star,
expecting that the surgeon can make their face look exactly the same[6]:

 _Some have attempted to link the popularity of plastic surgery in Korea with
Hallyu, or the Korean Wave of pop culture, with Asian patients wanting to look
like Korean actresses Han Ye-sul or Kim Tae-hee.

“Kim Tae-hee’s features are the ones that are requested the most often by
patients from all over the world,” says Kwon._

> My guess is that this is just a phase that developed (or developing) nations
> go through

I think the issue here is that South Korea has seen an increase in wealth
faster than almost any other country in history. While they have become
economically successful, their society has yet to catch up. It's sort of like
the nouveau riche you see in America - they waste their money on things like
cars and clothes.

0: [http://imnopicasso.blogspot.com/2012/08/foreigners-taking-
ko...](http://imnopicasso.blogspot.com/2012/08/foreigners-taking-korea-on-
their-own.html)

1: [http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-do-expats-in-
kore...](http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-do-expats-in-korea-
complain-so-much.html)

2: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthoplasty>

3:
[http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/04/daily-c...](http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/04/daily-
chart-13)

4: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthic_fold>

5: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid>

6: [http://www.cnngo.com/seoul/visit/ideals-beauty-plastic-
surge...](http://www.cnngo.com/seoul/visit/ideals-beauty-plastic-surgery-
capital-world-389581)

~~~
Steko
"Yet all of their attempts to break into the US market have resulted in
absolute failure (for a variety of reasons that I won't get into here)"

'Absolute failure' only if your standards are impossibly high. Even without
Psy, Kpop was making legitimate inroads in the age of YT. TV appearances,
concerts, blips on itunes charts and of course they are all over YT.

[http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg...](http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg%2CSNSD&geo=US-
HI&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q)

~~~
uniclaude
Your google insights link points to graphs regarding Hawaii. How exactly is
this region relevant to this conversation (or to your point)? If you apply the
searches to the US[1], the results are less surprising.

Please describe by which metric do you mean impossibly high. Billboard
rankings?

[1]:[http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg...](http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg%2CSNSD&geo=US&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q)

~~~
Steko
"Please describe by which metric do you mean impossibly high. Billboard
rankings?"

What were the Billboard expectations for Kpop in 2011? If your expectations
were "about the same as in 2010" then they were drastically exceeded.

Were the expectations that they would "dominate the charts"? Then I will say
your expectations were impossibly high.

"Your google insights link points to graphs regarding Hawaii. How exactly is
this region relevant to this conversation (or to your point)? "

You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major metro
areas, etc. The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or
that Snoop Dogg if the biggest artist in the US. The point was that if you go
back more then say 18 months you don't really get much of anything for any
Kpop artists ever.

By those standards being as popular as someone who is a household name in the
US should be viewed as a huge success, not absolute failure.

~~~
w1ntermute
> You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major
> metro areas, etc.

And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-
American populations, they are basically unheard of.

> The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or that Snoop
> Dogg if the biggest artist in the US.

Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at
all?

~~~
Steko
"And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-
American populations, they are basically unheard of."

Yes I'm not claiming they are huge stars.

"Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at
all?"

Pretty sure the answer to this question was in the part you didn't quote.

~~~
w1ntermute
> Yes I'm not claiming they are huge stars.

They're not stars _at all_. They've gained popularity among Asian Americans -
no surprise there, K-pop is a pan-Asian phenomenon, and as recent immigrants,
many Asian Americans have strong ties to their home countries' cultures.

But among those who are American through and through? Nothing.

> Pretty sure the answer to this question was in the part you didn't quote.

Pretty sure it wasn't. Snoop Dogg isn't some kind of control you can use for
assessing the popularity over time of K-pop artists. If he's decreased in
popularity, then it would appear as if they've increased, when in reality the
increase was relative. In any case, past trends are not a solid indication of
the future. K-pop's popularity in the US will probably plateau once the Asian
American audience has been saturated.

~~~
Steko
"They're not stars at all. "

The 'failure' we're talking about is contingent on some level of expectations.
I didn't expect them to be stars. They are more notable then I would have
expected given the history of Jpop and Cpop and Bollywood etc. in America.
Obviously you're expectations of success were much higher so you can flatly
declare them as failures.

"Snoop Dogg isn't some kind of control you can use for assessing the
popularity over time of K-pop artists."

No one has suggested that is the case. Have mercy on the straw men, they've
got kids to feed.

"K-pop's popularity in the US will probably plateau once the Asian American
audience has been saturated."

I've seen conventional wisdom like this before. It's always supremely
confident and sometimes it's right but just as often wrong. Anime was supposed
to be a niche forever but DBZ is a part of every American kids upbringing now.

------
Mr24601
It's not exactly a hidden meaning... if you know what Gangnam is, then the
meaning is ridiculously blatant.

Also, it says that, "He writes his own songs and choreographs his own videos,
which is unheard of in K-Pop.". This is however pretty much the norm for YG,
the record studio he belongs to.

Big Bang's leader, G-Dragon, writes much of the music and lyrics for the
group, along with T.O.P.

Examples: 1) 38,354,253 views, "Fantastic Baby" -
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbokV76tkU>

2) 20,106,612 views, "Bad Boy" - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qnV55LUFVM>

3) 27, 084, 596 views, "Blue" - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GRP1rkE4O0>

Also, they don't write their own songs, but YG band 2NE1 has a video with over
50,000,000 views, but it took a few years to get there:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7_lSP8Vc3o>

~~~
batgaijin
Kind of like how Moby Dick is obvious to anyone familiar with the maritime
whale oil industry and New England politics in the 19th century?

------
morsch
Cut out of the cultural discourse again: "Unfortunately, this video is not
available in Germany because it may contain music for which GEMA has not
granted the respective music rights." Even if some may argue that it's not an
important public discourse, it's still annoying in principle. (You can still
find the video if you look around.)

~~~
maayank
Really, what's the deal with this? Why is Germany the most problematic in this
aspect?

Every country have such organizations but somehow it's always my German
contacts to which showing a video becomes an epic poem.

~~~
sek
They have rights for "every music", a reversal of the burden of proof and
demand ridiculously high royalties from Youtube.

------
D_Alex
Wow, I love this - I lived in Korea for about 18 months and can pick up a fair
bit of the culture specific messages.

For some reason, none of the translations I've seen cover the term "Oppa",
which is translatable and kind of important to get the song's meaning. "Oppa"
(as I understand it, and I might not be 100% correct) is used by girls to
refer to an older male friend, and so "Oppa (nun?) Gangnam style" would mean
something like "Daddy's got Gangnam Style", with "daddy" used in the sense of
"sugar daddy". At least that is my interpretation and I'd like to see any
native Korean speakers comment on this.

~~~
w1ntermute
> "Oppa (nun?) Gangnam style"

Between "Oppa" and "Gangnam" is the Korean topic particle[0], "는" ("neun").
Your translation is basically correct.

"Oppa" is the word traditionally used by women to refer to their elder
brothers, but younger Korean women have started using it to refer to their
boyfriends/love interests as well[1], although it can also be used between
non-blood relatives in a totally platonic manner (which can lead to plenty of
ambiguity about romantic intentions, which a lot of people of course thrive
on).

0: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_particles>

1: [http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/06/ask-korean-wiki-
oppa-...](http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/06/ask-korean-wiki-oppa-oppa-
oppa.html)

------
paulsutter
Hidden message? It's as plain as day. There's nothing subtle about it. My
Korean friends know instantly what it's about and why it's hilarious.

~~~
ceol
How I read it, the author's point was that it's surprising to see this at the
top of K-pop charts, and Western folks watching it really aren't getting the
true message; they're just laughing at him acting wacky.

~~~
CountHackulus
I'm fairly western, and my friends and I got the subtext pretty immediately.
All you really needed to know was that it's his 6th album, everything else
falls out from that given the absurdity and callbacks in the video. The
song/video is fairly similar in concept to Spela Mig På Radio in that it
directly confronts westernization issues using absurdity and cleverness.

~~~
eikaterine
I assume when he says "Western," he means people who had no idea who Psy was
before this video, much less which album of his this was, and don't know
"Spela Mig På Radio" from Adam. While I'm sure you're fairly Western, it
sounds like you have much more background in the Korean culture than the
average person who can barely find it on a map.

~~~
icegreentea
Yeah. I think it's fair to say that a good deal of the previously K-Pop naive
audience is going to miss out of a lot of things. After all, it's certainly
difficult to pick out everything if you've NEVER seen another K-Pop music
video in your life

That said, anyone who has seen a Weird-Al or Slim Shady (not Eminem...) video
can probably get the vibe that he's making fun of something. And that
something probably has to do with beautiful women, nice cars, and other
-money- things.

Edit: Forgot to add Lonely Island to that list.

------
wluu
There's a pretty good explanation of it I saw posted on Facebook here:
[http://www.kpop24.com/Article/ViewArticle.aspx?p=2&aid=1...](http://www.kpop24.com/Article/ViewArticle.aspx?p=2&aid=135)

------
sek
All this stuff reminds me of music from German speaking areas, only without a
hidden message. We have also really stupid culture, if you are interested you
can look that stuff up ;-)

Weird middle class youth culture from Austria:
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krocha>

You never know if it is a parody or not. Most of it is from Kontor records.

Really popular band: <http://www.youtube.com/user/atzenmusiktv>

Another example: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNUUCHsgRu8>

We say "Ballermann" music to really trashy party crap:
<http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ballermann+hits>

The texts are disposable. Mostly sex, money, party, drugs and sexy women (and
parts of their body).

------
blhack
Are we serious with this on, HN? Commentary on pop culture?

~~~
SCdF
"anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity." is the guideline. You
could argue it's intellectually interesting to see the artefacts generated out
of a cultural shift in a nation.

Personally I think a deep dive into the meaning of some piece of ostensibly
trivial pop-culture and what that means for the country it was produced in is
pretty interesting. Then again, I'm not exactly a 'hacker', so ymmv.

