
How coffee took over the world - neonate
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/michael-pollan-coffee/606805/
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grecy
It's a shame an article like this doesn't tell the economic enslavement story.
Ethiopia and other poor countries are unable to reap profits from the coffee
they grow thanks to extremely restrictive WTO tariffs that essentially prevent
them from processing it before they export it. This means they're forced to
export raw beans for pennies, and they'll never really make much money doing
so.

It turns out coffee growing countries only receive about 8% of the total
coffee revenue annually and Germany is actually the fourth largest exporter of
coffee in the world, despite never growing a single bean.

Schoolyard bullying, on a global scale.

~~~
Stratoscope
> _Ethiopia and other poor countries are unable to reap profits from the
> coffee they grow thanks to extremely restrictive WTO tariffs that
> essentially prevent them from processing it before they export it. This
> means they 're forced to export raw beans for pennies, and they'll never
> really make much money doing so._

As someone who has roasted my own coffee for 20 years, I'm confused about what
you're saying. What are these "raw beans" that the Ethopians are forced to
export?

I do buy green coffee beans from Ethopia, and have about 25 pounds of Ethopian
at home right now. Are these the raw beans you're talking about? I certainly
wouldn't want to buy coffee that was _roasted_ in Ethopia; it would be awfully
stale by the time it gets here.

I mostly buy dry process beans, occasionally wet process. I've just never
heard the term "raw beans". Are you talking about raw unprocessed coffee
cherry? I didn't know anyone exports those as is. I thought they would go bad
in shipping, and no one would buy them. And the sheer bulk and weight of raw
coffee cherry should make it more economical to do a dry process or wet
process at the source, to separate the valuable beans from the husk.

I do buy a lot of my green beans from Sweet Maria's. They have a Farm Gate
program where they work directly with coffee growers to make sure they get a
fair price - generally more than the "Fair Trade" pricing.

If you can help educate me on what I'm missing here, I would appreciate it -
thanks!

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I also don’t understand where this is going:

> coffee growing countries only receive about 8% of the total coffee revenue

If we look at the price of, for example, white flour from the supermarket, it
should be immediately obvious that grain farmers are receiving some tiny
fraction of the total net value of all baked-goods / pasta / pizza / etc sold
annually.

It’s not immediately obvious that this is bad or unfair.

~~~
michalu
Yes it's misleading, I suspect purposefully. The cost of green unroasted
coffee cannot be compared with "global coffee revenue" ... roasting makes
coffee lose 30%, then you add packaging, shipping, labor to distribute ...
finally the cost of coffee cup adds in service, rent and more ... you buy a
kilo of green arabica for $4 after roasting and shipping you're on $8 ... so
sell a cup in a cafe let's say you make 20-100x per kilo yet cafes are still
the thinnest margin business and most go bankrupt.

It's equivalent to saying the oil producing companies only get x% of global
car sales. Simply, ridiculous statement.

~~~
dang
> I suspect purposefully

Please don't do that here. This is in the site guidelines:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
Your comment would be just fine without that bit (and the final bit).

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sbmthakur
That was a good read. There's an interesting discussion (and article) for
those who prefer tea over coffee :)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16129454](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16129454)

~~~
mensetmanusman
Just started drinking tea with freshly distilled water. So much smoother
taste! :)

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0xdeadb00f
This is a great video on the history of Coffee in Ethiopia, and how it was
subsequently spread throughout the world:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Uj6RPbUXQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Uj6RPbUXQ)

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irrational
How common are "coffee breaks" still in businesses? I've never worked for a
company with mandatory breaks (coffee or otherwise), but maybe that is because
I am engaged in more mental that physical labor?

Ironically, my company does have a number of fitness facilities on campus and
it is entirely kosher to take an hour plus break each day to workout, i.e.,
engage in physical labor.

~~~
TheGallopedHigh
A very common ritual in Sweden is the activity “Fika” which is essential time
to drink strong coffee and eat cake at work. Usuall mid morning. Said with
tongue in cheek: it’s mandatory.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
In Finland too. The ironic thing is that most companies worldwide would
probably claim that coffee breaks help employees share experience and news of
what is going on, but in my experience in Finland, no one actually talks to
each other during the coffee break. Everyone just enters, _maybe_ nods in
greeting to their coworkers, grabs their coffee, drinks it in silence, and
then leaves.

~~~
ochoseis
Aren’t Finns famous for avoiding small talk?

~~~
0xdeadb00f
Sounds like I'm moving to Finland!

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Dowwie
Worth repeating from the bottom of the article:

"Climate scientists estimate that at least half of the acreage now producing
coffee—and an even greater proportion in Latin America—will be unable to
support the plant by 2050, making coffee one of the crops most immediately
endangered by climate change."

~~~
zeveb
Would any acreage _not_ now producing coffee be newly-able to support the
plant due to climate change?

~~~
chongli
One of the major factors in growing high quality coffee is altitude. Coffee
beans grown higher altitudes are harder and denser because they have more
sugar. The coffee cherries have taken longer to ripen because the soil is less
rich and there’s more drainage at altitude. Longer ripening times means more
sugar and more flavour compounds.

If climate change makes these (already harsh) mountainous regions
indispensable to the coffee shrubs, then we may be forced to grow coffee in
lowland regions where the quality will not be as good.

~~~
enriquto
It seems that they are asking whether, due to global warming, some other
countries much further north may be able to grow coffee at the appropriate
height (while it is now impossible because they are too cold). For instance,
in advanced stages of global warming it may be possible to grow coffee in
northern Italy.

~~~
redisman
The US has a lot of mountains too in various different climates.

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econcon
I think coffee requires more skills/equipment (cost) than tea. It's much
harder to create good coffee than good tea.

~~~
vbezhenar
Cezve and grinder? That's not a costly equipment.

~~~
locuscoeruleus
If you want consistency that grinder is going to cost a lot. There are
diminishing returns and $60 grinder will get you 80% of the way. But going
from 80% to 99% you're looking at a price increase of about $1800. You're
obviously not going to buy that equipment for your home though.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Who are you kidding? Of course we are. I have a $2000 grinder on the way.

Edit: I don't buy that a $60 dollar grinder will get you 80% of the way. The
output of such cheap grinders that I have seen have very poor consistency.
You're looking at low hundreds to get anything decent and even then you will
have very clear differences when matched against a top end grinder.

~~~
locuscoeruleus
On the continuum from preground coffee to cafe quality pour over, a $60 wilfa
burr griner will get you 80% in my opinion. You'll have days when the brew
comes out very well, some days it's disappointing. The biggest advantage when
going from no grinder to cheap grinder is that you can buy quality beans
rather than supermarket coffee and that time from grinding to brewing is
minimized, so you lose less flavour. For me, that's 80% of the value for 20%
of the effort/money.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Ah, ok sure. I agree.

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nicholassmith
If anyone is looking for an interesting exploration of coffees history across
the globe the book The Devil's Cup by Stewart Allen is a light hearted
travelogue that digs into its history and impact on cultures across the
centuries.

~~~
lb1lf
-And, while taking a break from that (excellent, I might add) book, you could do worse - a lot worse - than picking up Sebastião Salgado's "Scent of a dream", a photographic tour de force documenting how coffee is grown, processed and enjoyed around the world.

Heck, you could do a lot worse than picking up _anything_ by Salgado...

~~~
nicholassmith
Thank you so much for this recommendation!

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ksec
Idly wondering, did Coffee really took over the world, or was it really just
Caffeine.

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mportela
Fun fact: in Brazil, "breakfast" is usually called "morning coffee" (café da
manhã)

~~~
OnuRC
"breakfast" in Turkish is "kahvaltı" comes from words for after coffee.

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thomasfl
Caffeine is unquestionably a drug. While you can even give caffeine freely to
kids, use of mostly all other substances may even cause death penalty in some
countries. Pure caffeine powder is actually very dangerous, even in small
quantities like 1000 milligrams.

"That chemical of course is caffeine, which is now the world’s most popular
psychoactive drug, used daily by 80 percent of humanity. (It is the only such
drug we routinely give to our children, in the form of soda.)"

~~~
LeoTinnitus
However, it's not addictive like many other drugs. Sure you'll suffer
withdrawal for a day or too with some bad migraines, but afterward you're off
it. I just make sure if I'm gonna miss a day to pack some aspirin to combat
the headache.

~~~
dionidium
Modern addiction specialists don't fetishize physical addiction the way many
lay people do. What really characterizes "addiction" is problematic usage,
i.e. continued use in the face of adverse consequences. Most (all?) caffeine
users do not suffer adverse behavioral or physical consequences. That's really
the distinction that matters.

~~~
s_y_n_t_a_x
Stimulants, including caffeine, cause irritability among other bad side-
effects.

The only reason it's not characterized by these "modern addiction
specialists", whatever that is, is because of both $$$ and how socially
acceptable it is.

Since you can get your caffeine fix in anyway for really cheap (or not so
cheap if you want) and you can drink it at work without any weird looks it
doesn't destroy your social life.

Just because it doesn't destroy your social life doesn't mean it's not
addictive, but I guess that's just the layman in me.

~~~
dionidium
> _The only reason it 's not characterized by these "modern addiction
> specialists", whatever that is_

As a sort of meta point, every time I use the phrase "modern addiction
specialist" in a thread somebody responds expressing skepticism that such a
thing exists or that the definition of addiction I've provided reflects
consensus opinion. This is...weird. The American Psychiatric Association leads
their "What is Addiction?" page with the following text:

 _" Addiction is a complex condition, a brain disease that is manifested by
compulsive substance use despite harmful consequence."_

[https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-
families/addiction/what-...](https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-
families/addiction/what-is-addiction)

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v77
Not enough uses of the word capitalism for my taste.

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MockObject
> the government launched a program of land privatization, forcing the Indians
> to either move to more marginal lands or find work on the new coffee
> plantations.

Government forcing people off their own lands is nationalization, which is
literally the opposite of privatization.

~~~
LeoTinnitus
It's more like the land cosolidation act Britain passed in the 1800s. The
peasant holdings making subsistence were forced out or became laborers. The
"privatization" is where a business takes over.

It's better on a production level simply because the focus is for people to
exclusively work on that as opposed to people living the complex life of a
farmer. Instead of 100 peasants being marginal jack of all trades, you have
maybe 50 be somewhat better at a select few tasks.

