

Microsoft disconnects modded Xboxs   - dan_the_welder
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8354166.stm

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DarkShikari
Whenever I hear about mod chips for pirating games, I think of this story:

<http://www.actsofgord.com/Chronicles/chapter24.php>

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robin_reala
Gord! Forgotten all about that site. Apologies for the fluff comment but I’d
recommend a read if you’ve got time, he’s a funny man.

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dan_the_welder
Man, I accidentally spent an hour there. Thanks for the link though.

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stingraycharles
That is weird, especially given that modding console is completely legal over
here in The Netherlands: using it to play games you don't own is illegal. I
would've guessed Microsoft would target the users playing pirated games
instead of playing on modded X-Boxes. Now it seems like they're also targeting
users that prefer to play using a backup DVD instead of the original, which to
me seems like a pretty fair use case.

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robryan
In this case the legality of modded consoles to play backup isn't an issue
because it sounds like Microsoft have something specific in the Xbox Live TOS
to cover all modded consoles.

Pretty smart move really, something has to be done to get on top of this
before there is no longer a video game industry.

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stingraycharles
_In this case the legality of modded consoles to play backup isn't an issue
because it sounds like Microsoft have something specific in the Xbox Live TOS
to cover all modded consoles._

IANAL, but I believe that over here, that doesn't matter: if something is said
to be legal by law, no company can forbid its customers to do so. Just like
with renting an apartment: a landlord can demand all kinds of ridiculous
things, but if there is a law that explicitly protects certain rights for
homeowners, a landlord simply cannot take those from you.

It's the same with a TOS: a company simply cannot take certain rights away
from you if a country's laws explicitly protect these rights.

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ErrantX
I think that because it is the online service they have a much more solid
footing - they can say under what circumstances you are allowed to connect to
their network.

I cant comment on the specific Netherlands law but I am fairly certain most
laws have solid provision for companies deciding what they consider
right/wrong on their own networks.

If you want to consider another example what happens if a cheat hack appears
that gives you a big advantage over other online players; would M$ be within
their rights to ban you then? Is the only difference that gamers believe one
to be morally wrong (cheating) and one to be floating somewhere in the middle
(chipping)

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stingraycharles
_If you want to consider another example what happens if a cheat hack appears
that gives you a big advantage over other online players; would M$ be within
their rights to ban you then? Is the only difference that gamers believe one
to be morally wrong (cheating) and one to be floating somewhere in the middle
(chipping)_

I get your point, since one is a software mod and the other is a hardware mod.
The difference is that our law says nothing about software modifications,
while it does explicitly allow a consumer to mod consoles: you have the right
to be able to make a backup disc of any game you purchase, and use those
backup disks to play the games. You need to mod your console for that, and you
can literally walk into any computer store and ask your X-Box to be modded.

But, I think you made a good point: the hardware in essense makes the software
function differently, so if you would convert a certain software cheat to a
hardware mod (if it were possible), you have a problem.

So I think the (legal) matter, in the end, is intent. This is why I think it's
weird that Microsoft chose to ban all people that modded their console,
instead of all the people that pirated games. One targets the fact that a
hardware modification was made, the other targets the intent.

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ErrantX
Well I guess the answer (and I dont necessarily support it) they'd give is
that there is no real way to tell what the intent is and so better safe than
sorry.

There is also an argument that chipping could introduce unknown bugs or weird
factors that affect online games - or indeed other users. So a sort of
unintentional hacking.

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nzmsv
I'm amazed that in 2009 you can still find this line in a news article:

"Xbox Live allows gamers to play against one another"

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Splines
I wonder what how much noise would generated if Apple (or AT&T) did something
similar to iPhones.

