
Tesla Model Y - kiddz
https://www.tesla.com/modely
======
leesec
Amazing to me the knee jerk response from most people is to criticize this
company. Yes they have issues (as does literally every brand/company), but on
the whole aren't we glad people are leading the charge towards electric
vehicles? They've sped up the advent of electric vehicles by at least 5 years,
possibly more like 10.

Looking forward to seeing this company continue to thrive.

~~~
gamblor956
It's quite possible to support the goal and criticize the players, especially
when those players repeatedly fail to execute and use the lofty goal as an
excuse for their failings instead of learning from their mistakes and getting
better.

And why should Tesla get the credit for making green cars a thing? True credit
belongs to Toyota for introducing the Prius 2 decades ago when gas was king
and getting consumers to see alternative engines as viable options, and to
California for its green vehicles incentives for making possible the financial
structure that has kept Tesla alive.

~~~
confiscate
ya but neither of those 2 things (Toyota's Prius 2, and California's green car
incentives) were successful in making car manufacturers wake up and go
electric. It was only when Tesla started making money that every car
manufacturer is being serious about competing in this space, and even then
they are behind.

Curious to see why you think credit goes to Toyota, instead of Tesla?

~~~
gamblor956
Car companies started going electric because California and Federal fuel
standards require increasing fuel efficiency on a fleet basis, and the only
way to achieve those goals is now through zero-emissions vehicles like
hydrogen, fuel cell, or EV. Hydrogen tech and fuel cells are still too
inefficient and expensive for consumer vehicles (especially given the rare-
earth materials required for high-efficiency fuel cells). Batteries happened
to get much cheaper due to their increasing use in non-vehicle electronics
like cell phones, which made EVs the best choice from a tech and cost
perspective.

In other words, Tesla didn't actually make car manufacturers "wake up and go
electric." They were going to go electric anyway because it was the obvious
tech choice.

Tesla's accomplishment was to show that people were finally ready to buy green
cars that looked like normal cars. (The first hybrids and EVs from Toyota and
Nissan looked like normal cars, and sold horribly. Toyota and Nissan
introduced the butt-ugly designs because green car buyers back in the day
_wanted_ distinctive cars to show off their greenliness.)

 _t neither of those 2 things (Toyota 's Prius 2, and California's green car
incentives) were successful in making car manufacturers wake up and go
electric._

California's green car incentives and fuel efficiency requirements are what
drove most car companies to invest in green car tech in the first place.

~~~
m463
I suspect some "compliance cars" are ugly so they don't sell too many of them
(since they lose money on each one).

And as to the leaf, I think it was actually modeled after the Prius, and it
sold well since there are 400,000 of them out there.

------
a13n
I gotta give it to them, it's insane how fast they're moving.

In less than a decade they've gone from one highly niche electric supercar to
a luxury sedan, a luxury SUV, a mid-range sedan, and a mid-range SUV.

And in sales they're crushing competition that have been building cars for
literally a hundred years.

So excited for the zero-exhaust future.

~~~
kop316
"So excited for the zero-exhaust future."

Is it zero exhaust? Where do you get your energy from? Is it from a caol
plant? A nuclear plant? Its more you don't see the exhaust.

~~~
TheTruth1234
Boring argument.

In the medium/long term, the trend is towards renewable energy power.

In the short-term, these cars, whether running on renewable or dirt-power,
mean that we, and our children, don't have to suck up exhaust fumes.

"Thank you" are the words you're looking for.

~~~
martin_a
> Boring argument.

No. Valid argument. For the moment we are shifting emissions from one place to
another. While that might change in the future, for the moment the
environmental impact only happens somewhere else. This should not be
forgotten, therefore those uncritical claqueurs are misplaced.

~~~
maxsilver
> For the moment we are shifting emissions from one place to another.

No, we aren't. There are lots of renewable energy sources already on the
market, and more coming online every day. You just have to be willing to use
them.

In Michigan, as one example, for just one extra cent per kilowatt/hour you can
have 100% renewable electricity in your home _right now_. No new wires, no
extra setup.

~~~
phkahler
>> In Michigan, as one example, for just one extra cent per kilowatt/hour you
can have 100% renewable electricity in your home right now. No new wires, no
extra setup.

Not really. The electrons all go through through the same wires regardless of
where they come from. I think the extra cent does in some way incentivize
renewable power, but you don't literally get 100% renewable energy.

~~~
maxsilver
> you don't literally get 100% renewable energy. The electrons all go through
> through the same wires regardless

Yes, you actually do. Consumers Energy literally generates that amount of
renewable energy instead of the equivalent from Natural Gas.

You are technically correct that my home does not get the specific "renewable
electrons" that the wind farm itself generated, since the grid is all
interconnected. But that doesn't change the fact that the power company burned
less Natural Gas that month, for every user who opted instead for renewable
energy.

------
Rebelgecko
_Model Y will have Full Self-Driving capability, enabling automatic driving on
city streets and highways pending regulatory approval, as well as the ability
to come find you anywhere in a parking lot._

Pending regulatory approval, and also they need figure out how to make it work
first.

Off the top of my head I remember similar claims being made about the
summoning feature of the model S. Has it lived up to the marketing promises?

~~~
simonebrunozzi
I call BS on this. EVERY autonomous driving expert agrees that Tesla is years
away from Waymo or GM, and years away from their own claims.

~~~
tim333
For what it's worth Musk says he's confident:

>I think we will be feature complete full self-driving this year meaning the
car will be able to find you in a parking lot pick you up take you all the way
to your destination without an intervention. This year. I would say that I am
certain of that, that is not a question mark.

>However people sometimes will extrapolate that to mean now it works with one
hundred percent certainty we're requiring no observation perfectly. This is
not the case. Once it is feature complete then you're sort of kind of the
march of nines like how many nines of reliability do you want to be and then
when do regulators agree that it is that that is that reliable so this feature
complete post full self-driving this year with certainty.

>This is something that we control and I managed autopilot engineering
directly every week in detail so I'm certain to this.
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8dEYm8hzLo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8dEYm8hzLo)
10 mins in or so)

And that you can probably sleep while it drives around end 2020

~~~
Game_Ender
The common theory is that additional 9s for self driving are not inremental,
they require more like exponential effort. Possibly and probably needing new
sensors or additional compute power to handle those corner cases. So you
cannot linearly extrapolate progress.

------
rmason
I was a bit shocked at the price being as low. They're putting in a
Supercharger two miles away. Before today I appreciated what Musk was doing
but never considered getting a Tesla. As of tonight I am reconsidering. My
only unknown right now is going to be service.

~~~
samcheng
Service with Tesla has been pretty good. For small things (like problems with
those notorious doors) they will drive to you and fix it, even if the car is
in a parking lot at work. You can schedule over text message and in the app.
It's a refreshing improvement over your average luxury car dealer, who treats
service as a profit center.

The issue is with parts - delays for some body parts mean your car may be
sitting in the shop for MONTHS waiting for key pieces.

~~~
rmason
OK so the nearest branch is in Cleveland which is like five hours away. What
do I drive while it's in the shop for MONTHS waiting on parts?

~~~
praneshp
> it's in the shop for MONTHS waiting on parts

tbh, if I got a, say, BMW, knowing the nearest branch is 5 hours away, I would
factor the possibility that it can be in the show for WEEKS, if not MONTHS,
waiting on parts. (my 3-series has spent 2 weeks at the dealership at least
twice)

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
This puts me off buying a new car.

I’d like to see vehicle manufacturers, for the purpose of regular retail
owners, extend the warranty of a vehicle if it spends more time in the
workshop than the allotted time set out in the repair manual.

If remove and replace engine is, for example, 10hrs, then the car should be in
the shop for no more than, say, two to three days. If it sits there for days >
weeks > months waiting for parts the new car warranty should be extended by
the same amount of time.

My guess is that’d go a long way to fixing the spare parts waiting times.

What are the possible reasons for such long waiting times on spares? It can’t
be freight delays; it can’t be that the part isn’t available.

~~~
setquk
It’s just as bad at Citroen here in the UK. I had to replace a wheel on mine
after I dinked it. Citroen had a two week wait time for this. I managed to get
a wheel off eBay next day for £60 and took it to the local hooky tyre outfit
who put two new front tyres on and this wheel in 30 minutes while I waited
without an appointment.

~~~
bluedino
eBay is great for items like wheels. I got a like new one for $70, the
dealership wanted $390 for ONE, it woudl have been cheaper to buy 4
aftermarket wheels at the tire shop.

------
legitster
It is hard to describe exactly the niches they are trying to fill with the
designs. I don't see the Y suddenly appealing to someone who didn't already
want an X or Y or 3. The differences between models borders on what other
companies would consider trim levels.

They are only cannibalizing the same market, as opposed to producing a pickup
or a hatchback or a van on the same chassis. Are they limited by tech or
capital? Or are they really attached to an idea of what a perfect car is and
have trouble extending the vision?

~~~
mft_
Tesla is just being sensible here, given the dynamics of the car market.

Point 1 - the car market is shifting heavily to sell more SUVs. (For some
reason) buyers are preferring them to traditional saloons. [1]

Point 2 - as a result, many car manufacturers have a range of SUVs, which
absolutely cross over with --and cannibalise-- their saloon options. For
example:

* Audi has the Q3, Q5, Q7, and Q8

* BMW has the X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, and X7

* Mercedes has the GLA, GLC, GLE, GLE coupe, and GLS

 _All_ of these are SUVs, and all of them cross over with other (saloon)
models from the manufacturer.

If Tesla wants to sell more Model 3-sized cars to consumers, it needs a small
SUV alongside the Model 3. This is just good basic sense, on their part.

[1] [https://qz.com/1344537/by-2020-suvs-could-make-up-50-of-
us-c...](https://qz.com/1344537/by-2020-suvs-could-make-up-50-of-us-car-
sales/)

~~~
kurtisc
Does this extend outside the US car market?

~~~
Bad_CRC
VW in Spain has like 4 or 5 different SUVs

~~~
arethuza
VW Group has a vast number of SUVs models - must be nearly 20? (Skoda, Seat,
VW, Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini and Bentley all have SUV models).

------
radium3d
Base model prices including destination charges without gas savings
discounted.

Tesla Model 3 - $31450 right now after CA + Fed rebate

Tesla Model Y - $48200 likely no rebate available at release

Tesla Model Y premium over 3 = $16,750

Keep in mind the Model Y also includes the premium interior features which
cost an additional $3500 to get by upgrading to the Model 3 mid range,
bringing the premium over the 3 to $13,250. The Model Y also gets 80 miles of
additional range over the base Model 3.

~~~
atomi
The pricing page says, "pricing includes gas savings." It's likely more than
$48200.

~~~
radium3d
No I didn't use the price with the estimated gas savings bs. Click "details"
to view the actual purchase price.

------
sidcool
Glad to know Tesla is going to focus on Solar Roof and Powerwall this year.
Quite honest of him to say that Model 3 caused delays there.

~~~
mikorym
Solar roofs in Johannesburg, South Africa would be _huge_.

Power supply is a big problem as the state owned utility Eskom is very
unreliable. We have "load shedding" at least every week at the moment.

Yesterday the power was down from about 08h00 to 12h30.

~~~
dragontamer
Solar Roof is form over function. It doesn't seem to deliver as much
electricity as a regular solar panel, it costs tens of thousands of dollars
more, and generates less electricity.

IMO, Tesla should just quit the Solar Roof project. Just keep it to regular
solar panels.

~~~
tachyonbeam
Wouldn't you say that the original iPhone was also form over function?
Blackberries had e-mail, a browser and a built in camera, didn't they? People
do care about looks, and personally, if people buy a solar roof because they
think it looks cool, I'm glad to see more people buying solar. The fact that
Tesla can also sell them battery technology is great as well. I don't think
that all solar vendors can sell you a compelling energy storage solution.

~~~
dragontamer
iPhone didn't go from 30%+ US American solar panel marketshare (SolarCity
circa 2015) to 9% marketshare. Tesla is being a very, very poor steward of
SolarCity's business.

[https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/sunrun-beats-
ou...](https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/sunrun-beats-out-
solarcity-on-residential-system-installations)

Sunrun is now the #1 solar company in America, because its offering better
tech these days. Also, SolarCity lost its deal with HomeDepot, and the
Gigafactory2 (Solar Panel Gigafactory) is idling / wasting money.

All in all, Tesla is running SolarCity very poorly, by any measurement. You
can only buy SolarCity products from Tesla stores, and those few Tesla stores
are closing down (or maybe not, depending on the mood of the company...)

> People do care about looks, and personally, if people buy a solar roof
> because they think it looks cool, I'm glad to see more people buying solar.

Virtually no one is buying Solar Roof. Last time I checked, the number of
installations was under 1000, maybe under 100. There's no market for $100,000+
Solar Panels that fail to generate electricity.

EDIT: Looking into it more: the Solar Roof does generate electricity decently.
But to make it fit and look more like a normal roof, almost 60% of the tiles
do NOT generate electricity. Any tile that needs to be cut to size is a pure-
glass tile without any solar panels inside of them. This means that you get
far less solar at far higher costs than a typical installation.

------
lettergram
“Full self-driving capabilities”

One of the items listed is your car finding you in a parking lot. I gotta
day... I really don’t want to get hit by a self-driving Tesla in a parking
lot.

Having experienced some of the auto-pilot issues first hand... I have serious
doubts about this one.

~~~
mikejb
"pending regulatory approval"

They won't get that for a long time. Autopilot is a driver assist feature. The
step to "the driver doesn't have to pay attention/be present" is gigantic, and
I'm not holding my breath until Tesla will get that right.

~~~
seniorsassycat
Aren't many parking lots private land and therefore not regulated?

~~~
mikejb
That's a good point, and I guess highly dependent on location. I honestly
don't know how this works in the US, though in Germany pretty much every
private parking lot has signs that the road traffic regulations apply, which
would then result in the same limitations as on the road. I think (read: hope)
that there is some regulation for traffic on privately owned parking lots in
the US, and at least a superficial skim of what information the internet has
to offer, there are some rules of the road that may also apply to private
property (e.g. reckless driving, impaired driving, vehicular homicide, ...).
This might limit what Tesla can (or is willing to) do even on privately owned
parking lots.

But I'm not a lawyer (obviously), so this is just an idiots' take. I guess
this question goes on the list of "problems modern technology presents that
regulations need to prepare for".

------
Cyclone_
Is it just me or does that thing not really look like an SUV? Looks a little
small, when I heard it was being called an SUV I was a little surprised.

~~~
gambiting
It's probably the same size as a Nissan Qashqai, maybe Skoda Karoq since it
can seat 7.

~~~
amyjess
Closer in size to the Rogue/X-Trail, I think, and probably a little larger.

I can't find dimensions for the Model Y, but it's based on the Model 3 which
has 113.2" wheelbase and 184.8" length. The Qashqai has 104.2" wheelbase and
172" length, while the X-Trail has 106.5" wheelbase and 182.7" length, much
closer to the Tesla.

Probably a better comparison would be to another premium SUV coupe: the BMW
X4, which has 112.8" wheelbase and 185.4" length.

------
mythz
Excited, a Tesla Model 3-like SUV at a 10% premium sounds like my perfect car.
As nice as the Model X is, it's prohibitively expensive and I'm not a fan of
the falcon wing doors so I'm hoping the Model Y hits all the sweet spots.

------
samcheng
The website is up:
[https://www.tesla.com/modely](https://www.tesla.com/modely)

300 mile range, seats 7, looks a lot like a model 3 (so I guess kind of like a
Mercedes GLC?)

$51,000 for the all-wheel-drive version, although Tesla is notorious for
playing games with their pricing...

~~~
tqi
That third row looks like it will have 0 headroom

~~~
alkonaut
If it fits 4ft humans that would be plenty so long as there is somewhere else
to fit a 6ft human

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
_' This is an announcement from Genetic Control: "It is my sad duty to inform
you of a four foot restriction on humanoid height."'_

[https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/genesis/getemoutbyfriday.htm...](https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/genesis/getemoutbyfriday.html)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp-
TwWnn0dk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp-TwWnn0dk)

(not arguing, just reminded ...)

------
myself248
Snow-land wants to know: Front-wheel drive, ever?

I'm not driving rear-only, ever. Did that once, not again.

I'm not paying another $11,000 to get the dual-motor version when all I care
about is the front. That's a whole 'nother car worth of money.

Keep on building California cars, Elon. I'll buy one as soon as it fits both
my budget and my climate. Some models fit one or the other, but nothing does
both.

~~~
sliken
FWD has a reputation for being good in the snow, I grew up with a FWD Saab
that was pretty awesome in the snow. Mostly because it had tall narrow tires,
FWD, and well over 60% of the car's weight over the front wheels.

However RWD is actually better... assuming the car has a good front/rear
balance near 50%... like the Telsa. Any FWD gets LESS traction when climbing
than driving on the flats. A RWD gets MORE traction when climbing than driving
on the flats. Of course when driving down hills you can always throttle off
and just use the brakes.

Additionally your limited traction budget in a RWD allows the front wheels to
be dedicated to steering only. On a FWD you have to spend part of your
traction budget on acceleration.

So get the RWD, it's cheaper than AWD, and better in the snow than FWD.

~~~
lagadu
The problem is the tendency to fishtail on long, light corners, nothing to do
with going up or downhill.

~~~
sliken
Oversteer (RWD without enough traction) and understeer (FWD without enough
traction) are two sides of the same coin.

Personally I'd rather have oversteer, which is easily compensated for (a bit
of steering and let off the throttle), but doesn't impact your path around the
corner. It's also quite fun.

Understeer on the other hand does impact your path around the corner, the car
plows straight ahead as you ask too much of it. Additionally the threshold for
understeer is lower since it's the front tires trying to handle acceleration
and steering. So a RWD has more traction at a given speed than FWD.

Keep in mind that the that RWD in terrible in the snow comes from things like
empty pick up trucks (no weight on the rear wheels) or old American sedans and
sports cars that had large engines in the front and not much weight out back.
Generally even with a perfect 50/50 weight distribution that the RWD is going
to have the advantage.

~~~
dragontamer
I've always seen it as a thing of habit.

If you're used to understeer (FWD loss of traction), then for safety reasons,
you should stick to understeer. If you're used to oversteer, then stick with
oversteer.

Its not like it snows every day. Your opportunities to practice loss of
traction are few and far in between.

~~~
sliken
Dunno, it's not rocket science. Sure if it snows a few times a year, ignore
it.

But if it snows often there's a simple choice. Do you want to lose the ability
to accelerate (oversteer), or do you want to lose the ability to accelerate
and steer (understeer)?

Even a single hour in an abandoned parking lot should get you familiar with
either, and it's quite instructive to spend significant time over the
threshold of sliding to help prepare you for the occasional surprise on real
roads.

------
ernesth
In the hope to get standard unit, I pretended to be german.
[https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/modely?redirect=no](https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/modely?redirect=no)

Tells me 65 cuft cargo, 540 km range.

I asked wolfram alpha what 65 cuft meant. I now know that it is 1/10 the
volume of a gray whale. Or 1841 L.

Compared to the american version (66cuft, 300mi), the german has a marginally
smaller cargo volume but a far greater range (480 km vs 540 km)

~~~
rypskar
>(480 km vs 540 km)

Probably because of different standards for calculating range in USA and
Europe (EPA vs NEDC)

~~~
rplnt
And the cargo difference would be something like mandatory warning triangle.

------
thomasfl
Why can't the specs be in the metric system? It's only one large country left
on the planet that still hasn't adpoted it.

~~~
ihuman
Because that one large country happens to be where the company is located? It
is normal for US-based companies to use the measurement system the US uses. I
don't know what you were expecting.

------
statictype
Note how the links are arranged on the website:

S 3 X Y

~~~
sjwright
It was a moderately funny lame joke 8 years ago. Today it might be the most
drawn-out lame joke in corporate history.

~~~
db48x
But he actually went through with it, which is unique.

~~~
sjwright
It's great he made it happen, but he doesn't have to pretend like it's still
funny.

~~~
regnerba
I find it to still be funny...

------
matz1
I guess I'm not much a car person but I can't see much difference between all
the model.

~~~
azhenley
They certainly have a common theme but they are fairly easy to distinguish in
person. The 3 and S are really close until you compare their size or interior.

~~~
matz1
Yea I can distinguished them but as a non car enthusiast I would consider the
S3X model as one category.

~~~
Joky
Without being a car enthusiast these are clearly not in the same category to
me. I have hard time believing anyone being close to an X would not feel it:
it is _much_ higher. You feel much higher on the road seating in it. It is
less clear cut between S and 3, but driving them is making you feel how much
larger/bulky the S is (having to fit luggages in the 3 is also making you
realize how smaller it is). And S wouldn't fit in my garage while my 3 is
fitting just fine :)

I mean unless you're not a car person to the point of "it has four wheels, it
is a car"...

------
davedx
This is the electric car I’ve been waiting for. We’re a family of 6 and for
the longest time the Model X or some huge hybrids were our only options. This
is half the price of an X. I can afford it. Bring on the 7 seat version... in
Europe... (starts waiting).

~~~
koonsolo
I'm also looking for a 7 seat model. But does it look like the 3rd row has a
lot of space?

A quick search didn't show me any details on this. Not even a single picture
of the rear part inside.

~~~
davedx
Not much information available yet. I found one photo showing the rear seats
don’t have headrests, but we’ll see. I think it still ticks all the boxes for
me. Seriously considering putting a deposit down.

------
dlgeek
How can you actually call that an SUV? (I guess they got away with it for the
X)

~~~
zaroth
They say it has 66 ft³ of cargo space. An Audi Q5 has 53 ft³ of cargo space
and Q7 has 69.6 ft³ (with seats folded), so...

If it comfortably seats 7 adults and can actually haul that much cargo,
without being a lumbering hulk of an actual vehicle, I'd say that's a feature.

Admittedly some people want to drive a lumbering hulk of a vehicle down to
their local elementary school or shopping mall, but perhaps they have to stick
with ICE for now.

~~~
7e
The Model S has 60 cubic feet of cargo space. Is it an SUV?

~~~
function_seven
I'm reminded of _Meet the Parents_ ("I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?")

I'm sure my parents' Caprice station wagon had more volume. That's also not an
SUV.

But car categories are definitely blurring these days. A lot of so-called SUVs
just look like cars with the roof bulged up a few inches and a juice to the
ride height. It's weird. The BMW X6 is an ugly abomination in my book ("let's
take a car, and just... inflate it a bit, yeah?")

~~~
wazoox
I think all of SUV "coupes" are horrible. Each one is uglier than the next.
They scream "I have inferiority complex and fantasize a coupe but milady wants
a truck". A incredible display of vulgarity.

------
pdq
Overlay of the Model 3 vs Model Y:

[https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/1106412707211866112](https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/1106412707211866112)

~~~
trixie_
aka Tesla short seller posts a tweet that makes the 3 and Y and look the same
size, that is now being retweeted by tons of people spreading misinformation.

[https://twitter.com/NumbersNerd2/status/1106422454434582529](https://twitter.com/NumbersNerd2/status/1106422454434582529)

~~~
computerex
You are the one spreading misinformation. You can superimpose the images
yourself if you don't trust the "short seller".

------
redindian75
He just announced the prices (took a screengrab)

Standard Range (230miles) -> $39K (Spring 2021)

Long Range (300miles) -> $47K (Fall 2020)

Dual ($51k) Performance ($60k) (Fall 2020)

~~~
mortenjorck
The first question in my mind is "are these retail prices, or are they gas-
savings-spitball prices?"

~~~
cloudwalking
They are retail prices.
[https://www.tesla.com/modely](https://www.tesla.com/modely)

~~~
hellcow
Every price listed on that site has an asterisk pointing to "Prices include
gas savings." So no, these are the gas spitball prices GP was asking about.

~~~
zdrummond
No, they are the actual price. The price with incentive plus "gas savings" is
about 5k cheaper. As for the website, look down and to the left for the full
retail.

------
isolli
Touch screens should be banned on security [edit: safety] grounds. You need to
take your eyes off the road to perform simple operations such as adjusting
heating. Relying on muscle memory with physical knobs is much safer. And it's
not just Tesla, it's a worrying trend for many car manufacturers.

~~~
martin_bech
How do you explain Teslas higher safety record if that was true?

Its absolutely no problem using a Touch screen, have been for 4 years and
100.000km in my Model S.

~~~
netsharc
Sigh... "This car has a higher safety record, it has a touch screen, that must
mean touch screens are safer!".

~~~
wrve
I think the argument they try to make is that the car is safe despite of the
touchscreen.

~~~
stingraycharles
But that could be because of all the safety features. How do you know it would
not be even safer without the touchscreen?

------
lisper
"Production is expected to begin late next year."

I'll give long odds against.

~~~
tristanperry
Their new Shanghai factory (Gigafactory 3) seems to be partially built with
the Model Y in mind so I wouldn't count against this actually being true.

------
radium3d
Model Y vs Model 3 Schematics
[https://imgur.com/a/eVzAhEs](https://imgur.com/a/eVzAhEs)

------
londons_explore
Really surprised me they would make a big announcement so far in advance.

Surely they'll just be canabalising sales of the Model 3 while people wait for
the Y.

Making a big announcement 1 or 2 months before availability seems far more
sensible.

~~~
carlivar
I agree. I think they need the cash from orders now, and to show it in their
q1 financials.

------
pdovy
Will be interested to see what the standard range pricing ends up being, they
would really be on to something if they could make a version of this that is
closer to Model 3 pricing. It seemed weird to me that when other car makers
are abandoning the sedan style entirely that Tesla would pick it for it's stab
at a more affordable model. As a city dweller that still needs to tote around
kids / pets / supplies a hatchback / crossover is a great combo of utility and
not being ungodly large.

------
RickJWagner
I'd like to think this is going to be a smash hit for Tesla, propelling us
into an electric car future.

But I really have fears it's a last-ditch effort to raise operating capital,
at $2.5k a pop.

Time will tell.

------
elchief
I want my Tesla truck

~~~
biswaroop
Check out Rivian: [https://products.rivian.com/](https://products.rivian.com/)

~~~
joering2
I think Scaringe is super undervalued at the moment. The company is brilliant!
Scaringe seems to like rockets too so I wouldnt be surprised if he starts his
own space company at some point.

------
neop1x
I am a fan of electric cars but why no one seems to care about SW and HW
inside, especially for always-on, always-connected HW? I've heard they had to
SSH into customers machines to fix something. And that one day they kept
Kubernetes cluster insecure and let someone run mining on it. I won't trust
the software - I need a device where I can at least set up the firewall. But
an open firmware would be even better. But it won't happen because of how
these industries work. That is a pity because it's up to you how you secure
your home pc. But it's up to manufacturer to secure your connected devices and
they are not always doing maximum. Over time, there will be many connected
cars and IoT devices with outdated, broken, wrongly-configured firmware (look
at routers nowadays). And don't tell me you can remotely control driving
servos in such cars. Because if you can, a hacker can become a serial killer
or a hitman soon...

------
vcavallo
How is that an suv?

~~~
trymas
What is an SUV?

------
cjbenedikt
Amazing amount of nativity of mist comments. Completely ignore environmental
impact of batteries: [https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-
environmen...](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-
impact)

------
phil9987
So they thought before being able to produce the other models in a reliable
way, why not release yet another model?! Great idea publicity wise, I doubt
that this can be sustainable in the long term though. Why not focusing on
getting one thing right?

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
"Fire and motion", probably, as in
[https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-
motion/](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/)

 _' In infantry battles, he told us, there is only one strategy: Fire and
Motion. You move towards the enemy while firing your weapon. The firing forces
him to keep his head down so he can’t fire at you. (That’s what the soldiers
mean when they shout “cover me.” It means, “fire at our enemy so he has to
duck and can’t fire at me while I run across this street, here.” It works.)
The motion allows you to conquer territory and get closer to your enemy, where
your shots are much more likely to hit their target. If you’re not moving, the
enemy gets to decide what happens, which is not a good thing. If you’re not
firing, the enemy will fire at you, pinning you down.'_

------
willvarfar
I don't get why Teslas have bonnets! The Y even has a flat panel where the
radiator traditionally is! They are trying to look like a conventional car
from the distance!

I remember when the first Renault Espaces turned up. Suddenly a car without a
bonnet! (Okay, technically, perhaps it wasn't the first. But it was the first
different-looking car to suddenly be everywhere that I remember!) That was
revolutionary and different.

Its a pity that Tesla feel the public need them to disguise their cars. I want
an electric car which can seat 6 but on a normal 4-person footprint. I want a
people-carrier!

~~~
ec109685
The bonnet is additional storage and also the motors protrude into that area
so it's not like they could eliminate that space completely for at least all
wheel drive vehicles.

~~~
willvarfar
The mclaren f1 put the driver in the middle, forward. There's lots of
innovative ways to better use the space. Putting the 'additional storage' in a
low bit with nothing using the space above it is just squandering footprint.

~~~
Zanni
What are you going to put in the space above it? You don't want to put the
driver or passengers there, they need the protection of the crumple zone. And
anything else impedes the view of the driver.

~~~
willvarfar
I don't get it. If Tesla announced an estate or a people-carrier everyone
would go "wow!"

But Tesla announce a small coupe with big wheels and its 'wow! there must be a
good reason it has a big flat bit at the front where a traditional radiator
goes!' ;)

The market is full of cars that manage to not have noticeable bonnets and yet
all my replies seem to suggest that cars are unsafe without the bonnet.

------
bryanlarsen
Did the announcement say whether the first Y's would be built in Fremont or
Nevada? In January Elon said "most likely" Nevada, did that get updated?

That Nov 2020 date is a lot firmer if Fremont than Nevada, which is the main
reason I'm asking.

I would have expected the first line to be set up in Fremont -- that's where
they have the experienced assemblers. And while that would slow production of
the 3, it would also allow them to adjust the ASP up towards the more
profitable models.

~~~
sliken
Fremont has no more room. I think it's 6 assembly lines for the S, X, and
model 3 (except for batteries and motors which come from Nevada). So they are
at capacity and not changing anytime soon.

The model Y will use the battery and motors from the model 3 and Tesla is
building a new assembly line in Nevada based on their experience building 3
assembly lines in Fremont. Given that the y shares 75% or so of the parts of
the model 3, it shouldn't be nearly as hard as the first model 3 assembly
line. I don't believe the model 3 shared any parts with the S and X, and
obviously are targeting a much simpler and efficient production line to hit
the much lower price points.

So given they are producing 5k a week model 3s and have learned quite a bit in
the process it doesn't seem nearly as risky to start a new line for the Ys in
Fremont. Time will tell of course.

~~~
bryanlarsen
"Fremont has no more room"

Yes, they'd have to switch a line.

~~~
sliken
I'd love it if they did, seems like a retrofit for the 25% different parts
would be MUCH faster than building a new line from scratch. I suspect the USA
market no longer needs 5k m3s a week, but so far the Europe and China market
demand seem to be healthy.

------
jcfrei
"Production is expected to begin early 2021". So first major deliveries in
2022, I wonder how much excitment will be left at that point.

~~~
leesec
Where does is say that?

~~~
spankweasel
Spec out a car. Go through the options and in the summary page it says:

"Your Model Y Production is expected to begin late next year"

~~~
dagw
When I did it (in Sweden) it said production expected to begin early 2022, so
it also depends where you are.

------
kabes
Just me who thinks the front is very porsche cayenne?

------
abhisuri97
Is it supposed to be a midway point between Model 3 and Model X? Or is it
supposed to be the cheaper version of Model X? I can't tell exactly where it
fits into the lineup since "midsize SUV" can mean a lot of different things
and is pretty vague (especially since the model X is considered a "compact
crossover SUV" per wikipedia).

~~~
Gaelan
Y is to X as 3 is to S

~~~
ralusek
Garth, that was a haiku.

~~~
mikekij
Best comment.

------
modzu
ugh the dash. in canada we wear gloves :(

HUD yet?

------
omar3550
I am not a fan of Tesla nor electric cars. The future of transportation is not
electric, (please get yourself out of Elon’s reality distortion field) it’s
Hydrogen- one of the most abundant elements in the universe. Once the
challenges are solved, we will use saltwater as a fuel. (Water aka H2O has 2
hydrogen molecules and 1 oxygen molecule, the salt can be used as a catalyzer
in hydrogen extraction.

------
dxxvi
The cheapest 5-seat Model Y is $51k, 7-seat is $54k. I bought a 2018 Acura MDX
(7 seats) with 3k miles for $42.3k. At $3 per a gallon of premium gasoline and
$60 for each oil change, I think I'll spend $11.7k in about 3-4 years. So, the
7-seat Model Y sounds better, doesn't it?

~~~
leesec
The base model will start at 39k, it is just not yet available.

------
jnaddef
After models X and Y, can't wait for models Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon

------
roland35
I am surprised that the cost is as low as it is!

I am debating whether to go the used EV route and get a 3 year old Nissan Leaf
at $13,000 or a new Tesla at $30,000, but with over double the range...

------
mark-r
Is there anyplace on the site that gives an overview of each model and how
they're different? After seeing the page in the link I'm still left wondering
what's new.

------
rado
Awful glitchy site, hopefully not a reflection of the product.

------
theDoug
Are there any photos of the Model Y with seven adults inside?

------
nickhalfasleep
This reminds me of my Mazda 5, which is a "micro-van" in the US. They don't
sell them in the US anymore, but a small vehicle with a 3rd row.

------
probablyexists
I have been saying I was holding out for the Model Y for years, but I just
can't get past the cost of the software upgrades on these..

------
wincy
I’m not sure if anyone else noticed this and maybe it’s too juvenile for
Hacker News, but Tesla now sells the models S, 3, X, and Y, S3XY.

------
jordache
Their design team is literally a one trick pony.

~~~
tshannon
Possibly, but I wonder if it has more to do with prioritizing drag over
everything else including unique design.

Don't all jet's pretty much have the same external design?

How many different ways can you design a car if you goal is to lessen drag as
much as possible? I'm asking honestly. I have no idea.

~~~
jordache
that goal doesn't influence the shape of headlights, tail lights....

------
zmix
Too bad, one can't FFWD a live event...

~~~
compsciphd
youtube live has a back buffer so come in late

------
nwah1
The flex circuit technology is the most interesting aspect of the Model Y, if
the plans haven't changed.

------
option
because of range, design and autopilot, I can’t imagine my next car to be
anything other than Tesla

------
mothsonasloth
Jaguar are going to be worried about their I-Pace now.

This price will also undercut Audi and Mercedes too.

------
Nanocurrency
Do I understand it correctly? People buying this now, hope to receive the car
in 2022?

------
VikingCoder
Towing capacity? Anybody know?

~~~
jpgvm
Probably more than you would expect. Electric motors have frankly insane
torque compared to their ICE equivalents.

~~~
sunstone
If I recall correctly the Model X can pull 5000 lbs. It would be nice if this
Model Y can do the same.

------
dgzl
The program is complete: S3XY

------
userbinator
I wonder what will come after the Model Z (if they do make one.)

~~~
newnewpdro
I presume the next model is the 2: 2S3XY

~~~
DecoPerson
Well with the new Roadster coming, it'll be S3XYR

~~~
azhenley
Semi S3XYR!

------
mrharrison
Pretty neat, except it says production begins late next year.

------
obilgic
I don't know how I feel about those random cheerings .

------
SamuelAdams
Is it possible to buy a version without self-driving capabilities? Personally
just having a nice EV would be great, especially if that reduces the cost by
5-10k.

~~~
robotresearcher
Autopilot USD $3k option, FSD $5K option.

------
dmix
Stream is down.

------
mikorym
So I skimmed the page, am I right that TL;DR is:

1\. This is to the model 3 what the x is to the model s.

2\. Expect to pay around model 3 price point + 25%.

3\. Range for high end models is further than high end model 3's.

Missing anything important?

~~~
sliken
I was looking at the Model Y AWD, is 5.1% more expensive than the model 3 AWD.

The Model Y range is 280 miles vs 310 for the model 3 AWD.

There's no model Y that matches or beats the model 3 LR which has 325 mile
range.

------
mgoetzke
but will it have a trailer hitch ?

------
hoorayimhelping
S3XY.

heh

------
vowelless
Here is the direct, unlisted YouTube link:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I)

~~~
drilldrive
Is there any way to just receive the audio for these sorts of things? Live
video is too hard on my bandwidth.

~~~
spookthesunset
How is this a helpful comment on a tech forum? What speed is your internet
connection that video is such a problem?

~~~
ehnto
Broaden your world view. HN is a worldwide community and internet is not
universally good. Some people live in rural places as well, or on sail boats,
or only have satellite internet, but they all love tech just the same.

I live in a first world country (Australia) with notoriously slow internet.

------
sidcool
[https://youtu.be/3ydPFR6xb3I](https://youtu.be/3ydPFR6xb3I)

------
samcheng
Here's the unveil (over an hour into the video):
[https://youtu.be/3ydPFR6xb3I?t=4775](https://youtu.be/3ydPFR6xb3I?t=4775)

~~~
emehrkay
They're lined up by model S, 3, X, Y. Mature. Oh he says it multiple times at
the end. Dork

~~~
mieses
the design of his cars has always been about sex. he's a smart guy but also
vulgar and boring.

------
dlgeek
Elon Musk is many things, but a charismatic public speaker is not one of them.

~~~
sbr464
Idk, I appreciate a sincere, non-corporate spokesperson in our current
climate.

~~~
djanogo
It's more of a unorganized ADHD filled stutter delivered to Tesla fans. I am
not discounting how smart he is to make the $ he made, but his skill level in
public speaking is very low.

~~~
sjwright
It gets the job done. Perhaps it would be nice if his delivery was as slick as
Steve Jobs, but I think it's disputable whether him being a better speaker
would have any practical benefit to the company. Would it have any effect on
Telsa product sales?

My problem with his delivery wasn't the stuttering—I doubt most of us could
speak any better than him in public—it was him interacting with randoms
shouting in the crowd. It's cute once or twice but you couldn't hear what was
being yelled so Elon's responses were often devoid of context.

------
LeoPanthera
I refuse to sign up for spam just to watch their announcement.

~~~
datainplace
Youtube Live:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I)

~~~
Animats
Is he drunk? High?

~~~
JshWright
He's Elon... He's always been a terrible public speaker

------
nodesocket
This video is unavailable.

??

~~~
dang
We changed the URL from
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I),
since that video seems to have been taken down.

------
sanguy
I find him extremely annoying and flippant. And what’s up with the hooting
fanboys?

~~~
basementcat
Cult of Personality.

~~~
Godel_unicode
Aren't most tech announcements like this, though?

------
dannylandau
model Y looks like a real let down.

