
One of Apple’s Best Ideas Ever — Made Worse - adrianmsmith
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/one-of-apples-best-ideas-ever-made-worse/
======
danso
This is a rebuttal comment to Pogue:
[http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/one-of-apples-
best...](http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/one-of-apples-best-ideas-
ever-made-worse/?comments#permid=61)

> The ''L'' shaped conductor covers the Ethernet and the Firewire port
> completely on the Macbook Pro if any type of protective cover-clamshell is
> installed on the 15 or 17'' designs. Reason being, the ''L'' shaped
> conductor hugs the body so closely it cannot establish a connection if 3/64"
> clearance is not provided...Anecdotal evidence supports the view that the
> 90º magsafe connector design that Apple has reverted to using is the safer
> of the two designs in terms of accidents as it reduces the chances of a
> 'shear pull' which made the ''L'' clip vulnerable to pull downs when the
> Macbook is left on slick or glass like surfaces.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Yes, yes, yes. My friend regularly pulls his Macbook Air off of the coach,
table, desk via the L-magsafe.

I've owned two MBPs and a MBA (long stories) in the last two years. T-magsafe
-> L-magsafe -> back to the new thin T-magsafe. The T-magsafe annoys me in
that it's harder to use in my lap, but it's vastly superior in the reasons I
like it: it keeps me from ruining my laptop and/or the female power adapter
slot.

I recently acquired a Samsung Series 9 by fortune and am horrified at how the
AC bit goes in the side and is already incredibly flimsy. On non-Magsafe
laptops, you have the same issue, it's just that instead of disconnecting,
it's ruining the internal AC adapter bit. It's annoying as all-get-out when it
breaks, especially if it's out of warranty and you don't know how to use a
soldering iron.

~~~
ktsmith
The Samsung Series 9 is a good example of bad design not just for the AC port
but for many of the ports. We have a couple of the 15" models in the office
and the ethernet adapter and mini-hdmi adapter are too big to effectively use
at the same time with how close together the ports are. When both are plugged
in, the ethernet adapter will typically be at a slight angle and not always
completely connected. I realize they are meant for portability and so wi-fi is
going to be used most of the time but if you've got big files to transfer it's
a huge pain in the ass.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Haha. The left-side USB port and AC power adapter can't even be used at the
same time. Pair that with wonky USB3 drivers for the right hand ports and you
have a laughable situation.

Don't get me started on touchpad drivers.

~~~
TwoBit
PC laptop touchpad drivers and hardware are so pathetic, they alone make we
want to get Apple laptops. You'd think that at least one of the PC makers
would realize this and distinguish themselves by making a quality touchpad and
driver. This baffles me. Why some company would make crap and wonder why Apple
is beating them.

~~~
eropple
This is a case where Windows is more of the problem than any individual
touchpad manufacturer. If you Hackintosh most reasonably recent laptops, the
touchpad acts predictably in OS X. The biggest thing Apple does right in
hardware is that they make the touchpad comfortably huge.

~~~
MBCook
That's something that continually surprises me. I've been on the Macs for
almost a decade at this point. The touchpad on my 15" 2010 MacBook Pro is
quite large and comfortable, it's basically 5" diagonally.

Now my sister's 11" MacBook Air has a much smaller touchpad for obvious
reasons. But I see recent 15" or 17" PC laptops with touchpads that are just
as small, maybe 3" diagonally. Having the large surface is so nice, I don't
think I could go back.

Maybe that's a driver thing too. If large touchpads were always producing
false input from being brushed by the palms, using the smaller touchpads may
actually be beneficial for users.

------
vailripper
I have one of the new retina MBP's and have had no such issues. In fact I've
been a bit surprised at how hard it holds at times.

~~~
cracell
Same here. I'm curious if maybe some of the early manufacturing runs perhaps
had weaker magnets?

~~~
kstenerud
berberous, your account has been hellbanned as of 23 days ago here:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4224422>

~~~
vacri
Why does this happen to fairly neutral comments? I've never understood it.

~~~
kstenerud
It's a sign of decay. No forum can last forever.

------
guelo
Personally I hate Magsafe in all its incarnations, it's always been too weak.
Many times I thought I had been powering my laptop for a few hours but I had
accidentally unplugged it and the battery was dead. At one point I had a
laptop that had some kind of battery problems and I figured I could just use
it as a desktop machine and leave it plugged in all the time. But Magsafe
would just randomly detach when I moved the machine and it would immediately
power down. I really don't understand the giant benefit that people see, I've
never had the theoretical someone-tripping-on-the-cord-crashing-the-whole-
laptop-to-the-floor problem actually happen on non-Magsafe machines.

~~~
mqzaidi
Magsafe is the thing I hate the most in a MacBook. Maybe this is a third world
problem, but this connecter is a dust magnet, and it routinely attracts so
much dirt that I have to clean it up before the circuit is established. I so
much prefer the PC connectors.

~~~
cwb71
I think you mean first world problem.

Third world problems include poverty, epidemics, and starvation.

~~~
hollerith
No, he means he lives in the third world and it is very dusty where he lives.

------
ak217
David Pogue can speak for himself. I find the new magsafe to be a lot better
than the old, if only because the sideways design sucked (it's harder to
rotate into place when plugging in, harder to take out, and places extra
strain on the connection between the wire and the plug).

~~~
dfc
With the exception of PR people everyone speaks for themselves. Before this
post did you think Pogue spoke for mac enthusiasts everywhere?

~~~
jessriedel
He just meant that Pogue's experience didn't jive with his own. Since we're
talking mostly about objective facts (the number of Newtons needed to pull out
the wire), it's not obvious that Pogue couldn't be making a claim about
everyone's wire. Jeez.

~~~
xrt
jibe

------
mistercow
They probably weakened the magnet to make it detach more easily to prevent the
point where the plug connects to the wire from weakening over time, which is a
battle that they (and other laptop producers) have now been fighting for many
years. They've had _multiple_ class action lawsuits about this same issue, and
multiple recalls, and they still haven't been able to get it right. I
personally owned multiple models that ended up producing sparks because the
wires inside had gotten so badly frayed.

I reckon it's a genuinely tough engineering problem, since besides
unintentional yanks, a laptop power cord gets plugged in and unplugged and
hauled around in bags. But it's pretty surprising that they haven't been able
to make this enough of a priority to solve it, given how much they charge for
those adapters and how much they must have lost on recalls and lawsuits.

But honestly, the solution is simple enough: make the side that gets easily
damaged replaceable, and let customers have free replacements every 6 months
(and build that trivial cost into the original price of the adapter).

~~~
dfc
I do not think your solution fits well with Apple's transition to "lifestyle
gear."

------
bmr
Sometimes I wonder if we should all just take a walk outside.

------
mgkimsal
T connectors are better than L.

<https://plus.google.com/107376902684111594494/posts>

Had an L connector - I can either cover my ports or have it dangle towards the
back. Towards the back, it picked up a lot of heat from the heat vents,
because they run a lot because I use the laptop for heavy duty computing quite
often.

I got some crap about "potential abuse - we'll switch it this time, but
they're not meant to withstand abuse" (or something like that). This is
_normal_ every day use for 1 year. Old T style - have had multiple of them -
never had this problem.

------
jsz0
I haven't used MagSafe2 yet but MagSafe1 on my 2011 Macbook Air 11" is too
strong. When you pull from an angle it just slides the laptop with it. I would
guess that's what Apple is trying to fix with MagSafe2. It may not be much of
an issue for the heavier laptops but going forward it's likely laptops are
going to continue getting lighter -- not heavier. I think the benefits
outweigh the drawbacks here.

~~~
brackin
I agree, I've got a retina MBP and far prefer the cable. The cable on my
MacBook Air was too strong.

------
tsunamifury
I assume that the lightness of the connection has to do with the fact that the
'perfect balance' Pogue describes depends on the weight of the computer to
counterbalance the break-away point of the magnet. New new 11-inch Air's are
so insanely light that the old magnet could drag them all over the room
(almost hang from it), thus defeating the break-away purpose.

A near feather-like connection seems required to balance such a light
computer.

~~~
DigitalJack
The magnet is in the computer. The power adapter part is just iron. If the
connection is too strong with the air, the problem lies with the laptop and
not the power adapter.

------
StavrosK
I'm sorry, but I'm confused. Is the new MagSafe connector exactly the same as
the connector two generations back? I have a white plastic MacBook and the
connector looks like the first photo.

~~~
msbarnett
It's thinner than the old MagSafe connectors, but has the same T-Shape as the
"two generations back" connector you're referring to.

~~~
StavrosK
Hmm, I liked that adapter. The newer ones don't disconnect if you pull
laterally.

------
aroman
I've been using the 2012 MBA near daily since it came out. I have definitely
noticed that the magsafe feels significantly weaker than it should, but I
think it's simply a matter of Apple not cranking up the magnetism.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the T design (at least, in that it
would outweigh the pros vs. the L design), and as others have pointed out, it
has a number of advantages.

Speaking from personal experience, his exasperation is very over exaggerated.
Sure, it's annoying, but I would much rather have it too weak than too strong.

------
MBCook
I haven't tried the new connector, but I worry Pogue is right.

My last MacBook Pro came with the old T connector. It was a massive
improvement over standard laptop connectors, but I did run into the crossed
legs problem. If I had my legs crossed and set my laptop between them, I had
to angle the laptop to be parallel to my left leg; otherwise my leg would
dislodge the connector.

My current MacBook Pro has the L style connector. It doesn't have the lap
problem, but it bugs me that it covers some of the ports. I usually plug it in
so the came comes towards me (more convenient the way I have everything
positioned), but that blocks the FW800 port, so I have to swap it around if I
want to plug a FW800 disk in.

I like the idea of going back to the T connector, but the idea that they
weakened the magnets makes me think the cross-legged problem would be even
worse.

I guess I'll find out when I replace this machine with a newer one, probably
in a year or two.

------
thoughtsimple
I just received a new MacBook Air and my MagSafe connection is pretty much the
same as the last two notebooks. It sounds to me like Pogue has a physical
problem with the magnet. He should get it looked at by Apple.

I can drag the 11" Air across my desk by pulling on the power cord. It doesn't
disconnect unless I pull up or down.

~~~
Happer
I just tested this on my mid-2012 MBA, and indeed. Pretty amazing detailed and
"small" design feature. Great.

------
stcredzero
_> It’s the worst Apple design blunder since the hockey-puck mouse._

Looking back at Apple mice and their acceleration controls, I think Steve Jobs
had a blind side here. Perhaps he was more coordinated than most people, so
could compensate and was unaware of the various shortcomings of Apple mice.

------
rickmb
I had hoped that Apple had finally got it's power cable plug shit together
with the L-shaped Magsafe. Before that, my wife and I have managed to kill
every type Apple has produced over the past decade, but the L-shaped Magsafe
has survived.

Why on earth did they have to mess with that?

------
salman89
Just bought a MBA yesterday, and my relatively unbiased impression (from a non
Apple product user) is that the power adaptor is awesome. In fact, I would
worry if it were more securely fastened in there - I don't mind if it falls
out, if it means that there will be less damage over time. I've had one too
many chargers ruined on my PCs... I remember buying 5 or 6 for an old Dell I
had.

"The beauty of the MagSafe connector was that Apple had found precisely the
right balance between attachment and detachment. Strong enough to hold the
connector in place, weak enough to detach if it gets yanked."

Pretty subjective I think.

------
cefstat
Just one more datapoint. I had an older MacBook with the T-Magsafe and I now
have a MacBook Pro with the L-Magsafe. I love the L-Magsafe. With the T type
the cable near the connector would fray every year and a half or so. I had it
replaced once for free. The second time I had to buy a replacement. Never had
a problem with the L type. For me the return to the T type is a regression but
I read in this thread that people had fraying problems with the L type. Is it
a huge technical challenge to make a laptop charger that will withstand normal
wear and tear for at least 3 years?

------
DigitalSea
Is it just me or everyday is there a new story about Apple failing in some
way? Whether it be a Microsoft-esque advertisement, patent lawsuits with
Samsung, failure of a newly designed Apple power connector. I'm not an analyst
so what I say should be taken with a grain of salt, but something is changing
over at Apple. I honestly believe whatever magic Steve left at the place is
now depleted, what we are seeing are ideas, products and ideals of a post-
Steve Jobs Apple and by the looks of it, it is not doing so well.

My next question is: what's next?

~~~
bpatrianakos
This is only perception and not reality. If Steve was still alive this post
would have still come out and the T shaped adapter would still be used on new
Mac laptops.

There are a few fallacies at play in your comment and you're far from the only
one to have said similar things. First off, both the L and T shaped adapters
have their pros and cons. I personally prefer the T shaped adapter. The author
of this piece has taken his opinion and turned it into an indictment of Apple
which I get because it is an opinion piece after all but as readers we should
be able to see that this isn't true for everyone. The reality is that both
have their pros and cons and Apple chose T shaped adapters. For as many people
out there that complain there are just as many who prefer it (myself
included). The product pipeline isn't going to go downhill for years. It's
well known that Jobs left the company with several years worth of products
that'll be rolled out. What there is to worry about is when that pipeline
ends.

The last thing that people forget is that Apple has always made mistakes. Even
while Jobs was at the company. For as many hits as they have they have a ton
of misses. Overall they do a great job and the ratio of hits to missed hasn't
swung in favor of misses at all yet. It's just that now that Jobs is gone
people understandably wonder if "this is it" for Apple whenever they miss.
Considering that it hasn't even been a year since Jobs passed and how strong
an influence he had at Apple it's only natural for people to take criticism
that would have happened with or without Jobs and frame it in the context of
Apple going downhill since Jobs died.

Apple is as strong as ever. They make amazing products as usual. They fuck up
sometimes... Also as usual.

------
jscheel
I always felt that the L-connector was way to strong. There are plenty of
times where it should have disconnected, but it didn't. It feels like it's
only safe for really sharp tugs.

------
jamesu
Personally I found the "L" shaped connector to be far worse since it blocks
ports and encourages one to bend the cable when inserting and removing, easily
leading to a frayed cable.

------
TwistedWeasel
I haven't really had any problems with my Magsafe 2 connector.

I was upgrading from an older Macbook that used the older T-shaped Magsafe, I
never owned any of the L shaped ones.

------
btbuilder
I haven't tried the new magsafe, but I know that my existing L shaped magsafe
is prone to fraying on the cable just below the L. I have had one replaced at
the Apple Store after I was told that they don't normally replace due to
"physical damage". I have a second at work that is starting to fray. I am
someone who has a high level of mechanical sympathy so I don't believe I have
abused these adapters.

------
calebjohnclark
The old style magsafe adapters is one of the best features of mac laptops. I'm
still surprised that other manufacturers haven't followed suit.

~~~
AlexandrB
Other manufacturers have! Just not laptop manufacturers:

<http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/07/03/deep.fryers/>

[http://www.amazon.com/Presto-09982-Magnetic-Deep-
Fryer/dp/B0...](http://www.amazon.com/Presto-09982-Magnetic-Deep-
Fryer/dp/B000EPKB3W)

Edit: Incidentally, I always assumed this is where Apple got the idea in the
first place.

~~~
k33l0r
Don't magnetic connectors on deep fat fryers famously pre-date MagSafe?

MagSafe (according to Wikipedia): 2006 The above CNN article: 2001

~~~
eugenekaneko
The concept of MagSafe has been around for decades. My old water pot from
Japan had it. The only innovation here is Apple repurposing it for laptop
computers.

~~~
pooriaazimi
And maybe (I don't know nothing about magnets) the fact that their magnet are
very close to other silicon chips inside the MacBook AND the LCD display (It's
LED, but technically they're almost the same).

~~~
vacri
Magnets in laptops aren't a problem - spinning disc hard drives have strong
magnets in them.

------
bluesnowmonkey
The L connector suffers from the problem that you usually have to twist it a
little to line it up with the laptop, and eventually that torque causes the
connector to break off the cable. I'm on my third Magsafe in two years because
of this. Thankfully, they just hand me a new one when I bring the broken ones
into the Apple Store, though I'm out of warranty.

------
nicholassmith
I've been through several iterations of Apple power packs now, from the
straight pin plugs of the iBooks, t MagSafe and and L MagSafe. In my
experience the L is much, much better.

I've had several issues with cable fray and connector damage with T shaped
ones, mine grips fine and comes out when caught fine. Maybe I've got lucky.

------
RBerenguel
Well, a MacBook Air weights far less than a 2008 MacBook. If it is not weaker,
it will fly if your cat runs around

------
RyJones
I have a new MBA (13"), and the power cord falls out constantly. I've
developed a tic of grabbing the connector and holding it in if I adjust the
laptop in the slightest way to prevent coming unplugged.

------
pan69
"I think the MagSafe connector is one of Apple’s best ideas ever."

If you're saying that Apple invented this, my mother had this on her deep-
fryer in 1979. Nothing new. However, it's a good idea to add it to a laptop.

~~~
rsl7
doesn't matter. along with getting rid of the latch it's one the best things
apple has done to laptops.

~~~
AlexandrB
Wow, I forgot about the latch. Been using a MacBook for 3 years and I guess I
take it for granted. Was Apple the first to ditch that?

~~~
arrrg
I think that came with the switch to unibody, so for some Macs in 2008.

~~~
henderson101
The plastic MacBooks never had latches. Not sure about the iBooks, but
possibly they did too - at least, post clamshell.

~~~
rsl7
just for the record (very late, wow) the first laptops to ditch the latch iirc
were the original iBooks, the "toilet seat" macs.

------
robomartin
I don't know. In twenty years of owning many, many laptops of all kinds of
brands and designs I have never had one yanked off the table like that. I have
never even had anyone trip over the cord and break-off the connector. I've
used them at home, in the garage, at the shop, at the office, on airplanes, at
trade-shows and while camping. To me the mag-safe idea is simply a "feel-good"
marketing checkbox rather than a real need. Again, that's my experience. I've
seen people that are simply not carful and don't take care of their stuff. And
some that might be more accident prone than others. So, I'll admit that this
is just one data point.

~~~
adgar
To summarize: either MagSafe is a solution to a made-up problem, or you're
more careful, value your stuff more, and are less accident prone than most
people.

~~~
robomartin
This is the way I look at it. When you write if-else-then statements all day
long for a living you should probably be trained to think that way about
everything. That's what happens to me all the time. I tend to consider the
"else" and "else if" conditions almost instinctively. So, for example, if I am
using a laptop at the diner table, I'll be sure to drape the power wires such
that there's slack in the event of a tug. I'll also place a chair over the
cable going to the wall so that there are very few ways for the kids to run
into the cord and rip it out of the wall or computer.

I am, by no measure, infallible. Maybe I've just been lucky with notebooks.

------
spiralpolitik
I have noticed no difference between the MagSafe 1 connector on my 4 year old
Macbook Pro and the MagSafe 2 connector my week old 13" Macbook Air. Both feel
equally snug.

------
lysol
I wonder if he took it into an Apple store to have it looked at. Based on the
amount of variability it seems like it should be covered by warranty.

------
tlow
This is about the future of the connectors, at some point they have to abandon
legacy. It is thinner, that's obviously a future move.

~~~
myhf
It was already thinner than a USB port. This is a change for the sake of
selling adaptors.

~~~
jasomill
Or for the sake of giving away fewer MacBook Airs? Not that the warranty
covers accidents _per se_ , but Apple's advertising the MagSafe's "safety"
benefit leaves them at least somewhat exposed to potential liability. The
profit on the adapters is going to be offset significantly by the increased
inventory required to stock and service twice as many port and PSU
configurations and the cost of bundling an adapter with every Apple display
sold in the foreseeable future at no extra charge.

------
niels_olson
Three retina macbooks (one bad, one loaner, one replacement) and I have not
experienced this problem.

------
jaytaylor
I posit that if Steve Jobs were still alive, the new mag-safe adapter design
would not have been approved. It seems worse in every way.

Has there been any explanation from Apple on why they changed the design?

------
thekungfuman
I'm not much of an Apple fan, but I do have a used MBA and I have to say, the
old style magsafe adapter is one of the greatest features of any laptop I've
ever seen. If having a laptop that is 10mm thicker meant leaving this
brilliant bit of engineering alone than it's no question to go with the
thicker machine.

~~~
kevhsu
The only thing is.... this year's MBA uses Magsafe 2, but its the same
thickness as last year's model with OG Magsafe.

