

Ask HN: Got unexpected feedback - where do I go from here? - helen842000

TL;DR - Had overwhelmingly positive feedback on an idea, not sure how to take it to the next step!<p>Hey HN,<p>I usually build small projects that tick along nicely. The feedback I usually get is that they're useful, neat or fun ideas.I recently scoped out, wireframed, sketched and planned a new web &#38; mobile app. It's something that distributed teams &#38; startups might like to use.<p>It would be of use in my day job and I usually start at that jumping off point for my ideas.<p>I've spent a bit of time &#38; money working with a designer to go through each screen and mocking it up properly. I figure getting it to that point makes it easier to share. I usually put the ideas into a working file then as my technical skills improve or if I have a bit extra cash I can hire a developer for the bits I can't do myself.<p>However with this project, the feedback has been like never before!<p>I've had 5 offers of pre-order (even without me asking "would you buy it") I've had several business cards with people saying "let me know when I can sign up" or "get in touch when your prototype is ready".<p>I've even had people tell me it's a "fundable idea" - which is something I had never even considered, I've always just bootstrapped my projects.<p>There would be a very steep learning curve for me to build a prototype for this, probably would take me months. While I'm eager and willing it defeats the object of a quick prototype that gets thrown away.<p>I'm building a mailing list of those who have registered their interest &#38; I'm still gathering as much feedback as I can.<p>What kind of numbers are convincing enough to push this forward? What matters most in this situation? Quickness or proof of concept, showing the full potential?<p>Or do I take it all with a pinch of salt and let it rest in my project folder?<p>Thanks!
======
blrgeek
Take a pinch of salt - you've crossed the first barrier - you're looking at
something people want.

Ask the magic question - 'Will you pay $X for this per month?' That
differentiates ppl who find it 'nice' vs people who are desperate for it. This
will also give you baseline pricing. Pitch it high and come low. If you think
it's worth $100/m, start asking at $250/m.

What's an interesting revenue number for you from this? Say it's $10000. Say
your price is $50/m [Are your customers ready to pay this much?]. Then you
need 200 customers. Is the market big enough to support that? Can you reach
this many customers?

Meanwhile, do the pipeline research. What do people look for when they want
this product? What search terms do they use? Use Adwords Explorer to find out
how many people in which region are searching for this -
<https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer> . See how many competitors
exist in this space, are they easy to find, are they targeting the right
keywords [semrush.com]

If everything is positive, create a landing page, start doing some basic SEO
or even SEM [if the price is low enough], to get signups, and if you're up to
it, pre-orders.

Then build the product :)

P.S. I've done bits and pieces of this before - not done all the way. If you
want to chat abt this, I'm prasanna 79 at google's email service.

P.P.S. I'm surprised this is not on the front page. I'd have thought this is
clearly the most pertinent of HN material.

~~~
wpietri
Excellent advice. But I don't like the question, "Will you pay X?" People
spend imaginary money differently than real money.

Instead, ask for them to write a letter saying that when the product is
released, they intend to sign up and pay X. Wikipedia has more:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_intent>

This does not legally commit them to paying; if you deliver junk, they can
pass. But it's serious enough that people behave much more like a real
purchase.

Or, given that there are good mockups, the initial website could test prices.
If they select a plan and click "sign up" you can capture their email address
and plan selection.

~~~
blrgeek
I very much like the 'Will you pay $X question' since it pushes them into
whether they will really buy this. This question may be less useful in a B2C
context where it's more of an impulse and less well thought out. But makes a
LOT of sense in B2B, where the budgeting and RoI processes are much better
thought through.

P.S. LoI's make more sense in a very big business context. But I doubt they'd
mean much for a small SaaS offering. Also, not many potential customers will
be so needy that they'd go to the trouble of a formal LoI. An email should be
sufficient at this stage.

~~~
wpietri
I'm not suggesting a formal paper LOI; if they're email people, email is fine.
But I think there's a big psychological difference between somebody saying,
"Oh, we'd pay X" in response to an interview question and them saying in
writing that they will pay X when the product is available if it meets their
needs.

I agree that not many potential customers will be so needy that they'll do
that. But not many potential customers will be so needed that they'll actually
sign up and pay, so I think that's fine.

------
steve8918
Start building it now.

That's the only answer. Get off your butt, stop taking in more feedback and
other excuses for you to actually do something, and start building the
prototype now. There are always reasons for you to wait, gather more data and
feedback, etc, but all that will do is stall you and make you lose momentum.
Start coding now, and don't worry about what you do or do not know, just do
it.

~~~
helen842000
I wish I had the skills to make a good attempt at it! I'd be on it.:) I'd be
taking unpaid leave from my day job and getting it done! That would be
awesome.

I totally agree I should be doing what I can, even if that is just finding out
where I get stuck and then outsourcing the bits where I fall short.

I just want to make a good job of it.

~~~
jpdoctor
> I'd be taking unpaid leave from my day job and getting it done!

If you take the risk, there is an x% chance of success with your new venture.
(You fill in x.)

If you continue to work your day job, there is a 100% chance you will continue
to work your day job.

I suspect you already know which path you want to take.

~~~
helen842000
Haha this is so true. Thank you.

------
CookWithMe
Before you let it rest in your project folder, you can try to pitch your idea
at a startup weekend or similar event (basically, hackers, designers and
business people spend a weekend trying to "create" a startup, usually building
a MVP and doing some customer validation).

If your pitch includes "I have a mailing list of X persons who are very
interested in this and would love to spend money on it", then it is going to
stand out. It is usually possible to build a really rough proof-of-concept in
that time, and you can use that to validate your idea, to a certain extent. If
you are lucky, you might even find some developers who find this project
interesting enough to continue working on it after the weekend.

But you'll need some luck for this to work perfectly, so if you are super-
serious about it, try the paths outlined by others here.

~~~
helen842000
I have actually been to Startup Weekends before. They're awesome!

They always say you can't work on things you've already started on - so I'm a
bit dubious about it sounding like "hey build this for me guys".

They are a great way to build stuff no doubt.

~~~
CookWithMe
I don't know the exact definition of an idea being started on, so yeah... I'd
say it's fine. If you had build a prototype, that would have definitely
crossed the line. But you don't even have a landing page up, right?

I have only been to one (in Berlin) before, and there have been a couple of
pitches where people did spend time previously researching. It's fine with me,
if you are willing to leave some creative freedom and not force everything
pixel-specific onto people.

------
rincebrain
Check your day job's rules on who owns things you work on before anything else
happens.

~~~
helen842000
Yes, good point. A lot of people I work with are open about their other side
projects, books, businesses etc and the management are supportive of it.

I know all of that goodwill can go out of the window easily so I will
certainly check.

------
startupstella
First of all, congrats! That's awesome :)

I would follow startup framework and try to think about what an MVP would be
just to test and make sure people would really, actually pay for this instead
of just taking their word for it. I had a similar situation with my project
(matchist) where freelance developers were really excited about the idea, so
my partner and I put our heads down, built it and then realized we spent way
too much time building and not enough time getting feedback all along the way
and making something much much more basic.

~~~
wpietri
Yes, yes, yes!

The number of possible products one can make from an initial idea is very
large. Some of those products will be great; some ok; most will fail. (Look,
for example, at the ocean of to-do lists in your favorite app store.)

Most of the information needed do build a great product resides in the world
and in the heads of future customers. Releasing early and often is the best
way to test the many hypotheses that are generated while creating a product.

It also lets you probe the equally important market space. What are people
willing to pay for? How much will they pay? Who are those people? How do you
present your product? How can you help them engage their friends?

As a developer, I'd rather just go build the thing in my head. But that would
be the product that satisfies me, not my future customers.

------
CookWithMe
Another idea - have you heard of a concierge MVP? If you can pull it off, you
can validate that your idea really solves a pain of the customer (right now
you have probably validated that your customers have a pain).

I'll also recommend the book Running Lean by Ash Maurya, he gives very
concrete instructions on what to do and it is a very guide with a lot of
practical tips (vs. a high level description).

~~~
helen842000
Huh, I've not heard of that before. That's really interesting.

I'm looking into it now. I need to scale back from current polished design to
the root of the offer.

I know that in my day job we manage these tasks with whiteboards, flip charts
& paper and it's rubbish! Everyone hates it & it takes too long!

I might ask those that are interested how they currently manage it and how my
solution will improve it. (faster, more fun, distributed responsibility) That
would really be valuable information!

------
quesera
You need a partner, or funding to hire a team, or both.

Without the technical abilities, all you have is an idea that you're unable to
execute on. Valuation of ideas can vary, but no one here will argue that
execution matters less.

It might be possible that your idea is adequately novel that it can wait six
months or a year for you to develop the technical skills yourself. Actually,
I've found that ideas from people who lack the technical skills to build them
often _need_ to wait because the underlying tech/infrastructure/market doesn't
exist yet. This is especially true for ideas that generate big enthusiasm.

Also, you will want to be in California, if you continue to work at your day
job while thinking about this project. Someone please correct me if there are
any other US states with clear company-time delineators.

~~~
helen842000
I do have SOME technical skills and I know I can learn anything I need it's
just in what timeframe.

I don't think it's that novel, just presented simply which would make using it
each day and improvement on the current method.

I'm not even in the US, so being in California is even less likely. Though I
do plan to spend some time there next year.

------
RobAley
Bear in mind that far more people will tell you its a good idea than will buy
it (usually) so adjust any projections accordingly.

If the time to code the prototype yourself, or the money to outsource the
coding, is too much of a risk to take in your personal circumstances, consider
finding a technical co-founder to work with to do it. You'll have to give up
part of your potential gains, but remember that 50% of something is (usually)
better than 100% of nothing.

Edit: also remember that the longer you leave it to do _something_ , the more
chance someone else will come along with a similar idea and steal your
thunder. Though that may be useful for someone else to test your market for
you..!

~~~
helen842000
Totally! I pretty much ignored the first couple of people that voluntarily
said they'd like to try it out. I thought "I'll come back to you when it's
time to put your money out there"

After more and more people say the same thing, it gets hard to ignore. I've
never had that before with other projects!

I've realised if I do it myself or if I save up & outsource it then it will
take the same time. The outsourced one would probably be more effective and I
could use my time on building a list. Yet part of me is stuck on at least
building a part of it!

There is already a big player in this market but they offer a much more
complicated solution & miss out on a tool that I think is fundamental. So mine
is more aimed at small teams. The competition out there already has tested the
market which is good! I calculated that 1% of their sales is like $4mm per
year and I don't expect anything near that. It just proves that the market is
big.

As good as it would be, I don't understand why a technical co-founder would
work on my idea. Though having expertise on the team would bring me
technically up to speed so I could pull my weight. I don't even think I'd
deserve 50% in that scenario as they'd have to be the lead.

I wouldn't mind if someone came in with a similar idea, so long as it got
built properly. First to build it owns the idea, I don't have anything yet.

~~~
wpietri
Your last couple of paragraphs really bother me. I see a lot of very smart
people talking the same way. Ask yourself if this rings any bells:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_Syndrome>

The reason a technical co-founder would work on your idea is that you have a
great idea, solid feedback, and the drive to figure out what that idea really
means. Plus the skills necessary to deal with all the mushy, human side of
product development, producing a clean stream of things to build.

The last time I started something, my co-founder did all of that, plus all the
fundraising. I got a lot less than 50%, and thought it was a fair deal. As the
founder and visionary, you should avoid giving up more than 49% for as long as
possible, hopefully ever, because then you give up control.

At startup events I see plenty of arrogant idiots who have done no more than
you (and often less) looking for co-founders and investment. Your natural
humility is an asset when it comes to building products, because it means you
will listen to your users and serve them well. But in the realm of
entrepreneurship, it will hurt you, because you will reflexively defer to
people who act more confident.

This is your idea. Nobody will ever love it as much as you. Take it and run.
As hard as you can. It may work and it may not, but don't let it be because
you didn't believe in yourself.

~~~
helen842000
That's very kind of you to say. I appreciate it.

I like to be super-realistic, which may come across as lack of self belief.
I'm happy to celebrate my successes, however with this project - I'm keenly
aware that little has been achieved yet. From my point of view, I would be
reluctant to join someone elses idea, so I presume there's a limited number of
people that would be willing to take that kind of risk.

I do feel that I have a lot to bring to the table in a partnership,in lots of
areas, including technical thinking & ability. Right now what's needed is
everything I don't have and I'm respectful of that. A few months & a self
built prototype down the line it would be a much more equal partnership.

I've been to those events and I'd hate to ever be pigeon-holed as someone who
wants someone else to do the work for them based on little proof.

They are often oblivious to the learning, planning, effort that goes into
building something. I only know because I've tried and will continue to try.

I've been careful to outline what I've done so far, as I welcome the advice
given by the HN community.

I agree that instead of being quietly confident I should push myself forward
more.

------
premchai21
As it happens, I'm currently in a slow period and looking around for side
projects that might lead to money. The other posters have some reasonable
general ideas, but if you're willing to provide more detail, I can see whether
it's the sort of thing that I'd be able to either help with or find someone
else for—right now I can't determine enough from your post to say anything
useful that hasn't already been said. You can send me email at my HN username
at mailforce.net, if you wish. :-)

------
huhtenberg
Explore and investigate this further before committing.

Specifically make sure you can deliver _exactly_ what these eager beavers are
willing to sign up for, and that you can do it on time and within budget. They
might've got the wrong idea, your mockups might've been too optimistic in
their feature set, etc. Just make sure to re-validate your idea and confirm
you are on the same page with these people.

Cheap - fast - good, pick two.

~~~
helen842000
Thanks! I've tried to keep the feature set simple so maybe they are imagining
it having things it doesn't.

I need to start taking more detailed feedback from people but I don't want to
sway them by asking leading questions.

Even though it only has a primarly and secondary features, it's certainly
still beyond what I've ever built before.

I'm considering all angles really. Even if it means selling the idea on, I'd
rather it get built properly.

~~~
biggitybones
I'm assuming the grandparent comment is sarcasm (if it's not, it should be).

Leverage this enthusiasm to build the MVP. If you don't know how or it's
beyond your capabilities, there's plenty of resources available now to learn
how. Get something in the hands of these early adopters and move on from
there.

~~~
huhtenberg
No, it's not sarcasm.

------
raheemm
All those people who have expressed interest, ask them if they think others
might be interested; demo it to them and start building your list. Hire a
developer. Watch this video interview of Dane Maxwell on Mixergy for many more
ideas -- <http://mixergy.com/dane-maxwell-zannee-interview/>

~~~
helen842000
Cheers for the link, I will take a look at that.

------
eranation
Find a co-founder, build an MVP (if technically possible) in a month or two,
keep it secret from your employer. keep your day job until you get seed money
or you have lot's of savings. Be very nice and buy a lot of nice things to
your spouse, as spouses are the biggest partner that can make / break your
startup. Especially if you have kids.

~~~
helen842000
No kids but my partner has his own side-project that I help with, so I know
he'd be really supportive of anything I wanted to start.

------
apedley
Outsource the initial prototype, then develop onwards from there if showing
signs of success.

Also people saying they are willing to buy and actually handing over their
credit card details are 2 different things.

It looks like you are on to something good, get the MVP asap, and see what the
real response is.

~~~
coldpie
Sorry, what is "MVP"?

~~~
followben
Minimum Viable Product: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product>

------
ianpri
Have you thought of approaching someone else at your work if side projects are
allowed? Add me to the list of interested but not quite sure what it is, if
you're looking for a hand, let me know - contact details in profile - just
finished an MVP for a client and about to start another.

~~~
helen842000
I've looked within my group of friends but not at work. My colleagues have
side projects but they tend to be products & services and not tech based. It'd
be good to discuss further if you're interested. I'll drop you a mail.

