

A Plan 9 Newbie's Guide (2008) [pdf] - pmoriarty
http://www.quanstro.net/newbie-guide.pdf

======
reirob
"Mouse usage is obligatory. You cannot use the acme editor, for instance,
without frequently taking your hand off the keyboard." \- in my opinion this
is a disadvantage and I wonder if this can be improved and if so, in which
way.

~~~
vezzy-fnord
Complaining about mouse chording in Plan 9 is one of those bikeshed arguments
that people love to raise all the time.

No, you can't "improve" on it without making it something that isn't Acme.

~~~
rcarmo
I haven't used a mouse on my desktop (any desktop, really) in over four years
- I use Apple's Magic Trackpad to get the same experience and precision I have
on my laptop.

That said, considering that many more people use laptops these days, mouse
chording is somewhat passé and hasn't caught up with the times. But I'd
actually rather have the window manager work more like other environments
(without using different buttons to get different behavior on window edges)
and would love an actual compositor and better font rendering.

~~~
smazga
I use a Magic Trackpad, too, and I wonder why the multi-touch can't be used to
simulate chording.

Aside from that, though, I don't understand why I can't separate Acme/Rio from
Plan9. I'd love to explore Plan9 more, but a proper 3-button mouse (when one
can be found) is $50+, and (as far as I can determine), I can't just login
through a terminal.

The UI is, to me, the least interesting aspect...but I can't explore the rest
of the system without going through the UI.

~~~
rcarmo
You can run inferno (which has a similar userland) as a process in Linux, and
I have plan9front on a Raspberry Pi that I use as a terminal (with vt and ssh2
to log in to other machines as well as VNC for using a browser remotely).

------
rcarmo
Even though I glance at plan9front now and then, I wonder if there is someone
else (anyone?) working on modernizing Plan9 somewhat.

~~~
stonogo
If by "modernization" you mean taking advantage of newer architectures, both
the nix and 9front people have produced 64-bit kernels and I think even EFI
support.

If by "modernization" you mean porting GNOME, then no. Nobody is doing that.
Thank God.

~~~
rcarmo
Yes, I am well aware of the EFI support. But the status quo in terms of UX is
hideous (barely above twm-grade), and it is currently next to impossible to
use Plan 9 on a modern laptop with a touchpad.

In short, my view is that chording your way through rio using a three-button
mouse is about as unfriendly as modern Gnome, and that someone ought to put a
stop to that without such tomfoolery as porting another DE to Plan9.

Technological modernization won't win Plan9 new supporters, whereas UX
modernization will, at worst, make it easier to use.

Edited to add: I have Acme running via plan9ports on the Mac, and even the
simple addition of Cmd+C/V/etc. for copy/paste made a world of difference. I
am positively thrilled with the notion of actually using it someday without
constant fiddling with the Option key and my touchpad.

~~~
stonogo
This situation speaks more to the prevalance crippled input devices and less
to the innate superiority of modern UI trends.

Admittedly I only use plan 9 for text processing and as a terminal to other
(both plan 9 and unix) systems, but I cannot imagine any work toward
buttonless-touchpad convenience that would do anything but cripple what is
currently a powerful interface.

I'm not sure there's anything to be gained from forcing different paradigms to
bend to whatever monoculture is currently in power.

~~~
rcarmo
What you're saying, in a nutshell, is that you based your expressed views
solely on your own experience and use cases. That, I think, is what made the
Plan9 community tank over the years -- I'll grant that a touchpad is
different, but then again I will cheerily admit that my view is that it is
vastly more powerful than a three-button mouse.

