
Scientists discover virus with no recognizable genes - HarryHirsch
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/scientists-discover-virus-no-recognizable-genes
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danieltillett
When I was an academic working in the bacterial virus (phage) field my lab
used to find these viruses with no similarity to anything in the databases all
the time. We would find virus after virus that had a totally unique genome.
The only way we could identify the genes that encoded the structural proteins
was to extract the virus proteins from purified viruses and get them mass
speced.

The really amazing thing is if you looked at these viruses under an electron
microscope they looked exactly like known viruses (most looked like a lambda
phage [1]). There seems to almost an infinite number of ways of making viruses
that look just like lambda.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_phage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_phage)

~~~
rolleiflex
The more I think about this, the more distressing this gets. I'd love to hear
a little more about this.

Does this mean lambda phage form is some sort of biology's equivalent (or as
close as it gets) of a universal constant, or rather — was the genes that
encode the 'container' (apologies for my lack of correct terminology here) the
same, and the viral payload different, or is it also the case that the
'container code' is also unique between these viruses?

~~~
danieltillett
Yes I think the “lambda” form is close to the most efficient structure that
bacterial virus can take. The really interesting question is if this common
form is a case of convergent evolution, or if the lack of similarity between
all the viral genomes is due to the ancient origins of this virus.

One thing is certain and that is that we have barely scratched the surface of
genetic diversity on this planet.

~~~
ampdepolymerase
Not to mention the entire T-series of virii.

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fpgaminer
TIL discovering viral novelty is common:

> Viral novelty doesn’t surprise Elodie Ghedin of New York University, who
> looks for viruses in wastewater and in respiratory systems. More than 95% of
> the viruses in sewage data have “no matches to reference genomes [in
> databases],” she says. Like Abrahão, she says, “We seem to be discovering
> new viruses all the time.”

You don't know what you don't know, I guess. That also means there is an
invaluable wealth of genetic knowledge out there that we haven't recorded yet.
I can't wait to see what insights are revealed once we've catalogued that
missing 95%.

~~~
pm90
As a species we've barely scraped the surface of understanding this earth.
Consider: we haven't even scratched the crust of the planet. Not to mention
the infinite space beyond.

This is sorta why it makes me even more mad that our species is more concerned
about silly political arguments rather than investing large fractions of our
GDP into Science, educating more scientists and unleashing them on the
mysteries that the world has to offer.

Instead the greatest minds of our generation are now focused on selling ads.
It feels so pointless.

~~~
rayiner
> This is sorta why it makes me even more mad that our species is more
> concerned about silly political arguments rather than investing large
> fractions of our GDP into Science, educating more scientists and unleashing
> them on the mysteries that the world has to offer.

Science costs money and resources. Politics enables money creation and
resource extraction. The capacity of our current society to do science is
greater than in any society in history. That’s no accident. It’s the direct
result of the environment created by our political decisions.

The Soviet Union is a great counter example. For a short time, it was at the
forefront of science, thanks to the state directing resources to science. It
was only due to the untimely death of the head of its space program, for
example, that the Soviet Union didn’t beat the United States to the moon. But
did the Soviet Union cure AIDS? Create the Internet? Create smartphones? No.
It’s politics weren’t sustainable, and it collapsed, and in the long run, its
capacity to do science turned out to be quite limited.

So maybe our “silly political arguments” serve a function after all?

~~~
pm90
I think the point you’re trying to make is that political stability of the US
is a necessary condition for the promotion of sustained scientific activity,
and I agree with that.

What I disagree on is that the silly political arguments have anything to do
with that political stability. Arguments about abortion, tax cuts and gun laws
seem to be the thing that animates most Americans which I would argue aren’t
really things that make the country stable; on the contrary they actively harm
the populace (if the conservative position on these issues is to be taken).
Again the scientific consensus tells us what is the right choice (increase
access to improve women’s health, increase taxes to reduce inequality and
decrease availability of firearms to reduce gun violence).

What I’m sad is that the issues that animate most Americans aren’t that of eg
discovering the vastness of space or combating climate change (perhaps this is
changing?).

~~~
heavenlyblue
Abortion law, however, is a direct efficiency tax on the populace due to
having to raise disowned children.

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carapace
I recommend "A Planet of Viruses" by Carl Zimmer. It's really short but almost
every page is a mind-blower.

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10840041-a-planet-of-
vir...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10840041-a-planet-of-viruses)

There are viruses that go into the hosts DNA, replicate along with it over
generations, then wake up and start being viruses again!

The oceans are Grey Goo.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_bacteriophage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_bacteriophage)

> Marine viruses, although microscopic and essentially unnoticed by scientists
> until recently, are the most abundant and diverse biological entities in the
> ocean. Viruses have an estimated abundance of 10^30 in the ocean.

Marine bacteriophages kill about 40% of all bacteria in the ocean every day.

(I don't know why you don't explode into viruses ten seconds after you enter
the ocean, there must be a way that the maelstrom of evolution doesn't create
monsters, eh? Or maybe we are playing Russian Roulette every time we go in the
water?)

~~~
mirimir
> I don't know why you don't explode into viruses ten seconds after you enter
> the ocean ...

Basically, none of our ancestors did. Or _vice versa_ , _mutatis mutandis_ ,
and so on.

~~~
thaumasiotes
If you're just slinging random Latin phrases around, you really missed your
opportunity to end with _et cetera_.

~~~
mirimir
Ha.

There was actually an obscure point. That is, the people who turned into
viruses didn't become ancestors.

It's also an even more obscure reference to a Burroughs' schtick, which I
won't repeat here.

------
mirimir
I know "no recognizable genes" is in the title, but it's misleading. They're
recognizable as genes, but never seen before:

> When the team sequenced its genome, none of its genes matched any scientists
> had come across before, the group reports on the bioRxiv preprint server.

~~~
keanzu
I was mislead by the title. "unknown genes" would have clued me in but I
interpreted "no recognizable genes" completely differently.

~~~
mirimir
Right. I was expecting something like prions.

~~~
XFrequentist
As was I, terrible title.

~~~
mirimir
The people who discovered prions thought that they were discovering a new
virus. Except that it didn't contain DNA or RNA.

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effingwewt
When I was a child I read a book of short stories, I think it may have been
Ray Bradbury. Anyway a cosmonaut leaves earth at near-light speeds and returns
what are a few months to him, I dont remember how many years had passed on
earth. The world was covered in green goo and the only people left were
Americans and Russians living in submarines and still trying to kill each
other with biological warfare. I believe anyway, this was about 25 years ago.
It made me very afraid of all arms races. Does anyone happen to know the name
of the author/book/story?

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sci_prog
Viruses might as well be alien nanobots created to spread and "engineer" life
around the universe.

~~~
0xTJ
It's a fun sci-fi idea, but it's completely detached from reality.

~~~
thaumasiotes
Specifically, it is the idea behind Speaker for the Dead and a theme of the
following books.

~~~
viscanti
Great point. There's enough research there to show it's not just a fun sci-fi
idea. It's not something that should be dismissed so easily.

