

European startup scenes compared - grn
http://www.whiteboardmag.com/european-startup-hubs-compared-tel-aviv-london-paris-moscow-berlin/

======
swombat
This is just an extract from the Telefonica startup ecosystem report that can
be found here: [http://blog.digital.telefonica.com/?press-release=country-
hi...](http://blog.digital.telefonica.com/?press-release=country-highlights-
startup-ecosystem-report-2012#filter=*,media=The-Startup-Ecosystem-
Report-2012-–-Global-map)

It's an interesting report, though unless there's actionable information in
this for you (there is for me, actually), it's probably infoporn rather than
anything worth reading...

------
jmcdowell
Quick question: Do people think the rising cost of living in a place like
London will have a negative effect on start ups?

Currently it doesn't look like it from that report but I'm currently on an
intern's wage and have struggled to live here, I can only imagine how hard it
is to potentially work for a small wage maybe even just equity whilst being a
bit older than I am and potentially more responsibilities.

~~~
jmcdowell
N.B. I have heard the cost of living in other European cities is a lot lower
which is why I thought they would be in a similar shape to London before
reading that article.

~~~
troels
Yes, but for legal/tax reasons, UK is much more attractive than most other EU
countries.

~~~
corford
Good point. I've come across quite a few Berlin based startups that are
actually incorporated in the UK e.g. Soundcloud. Someone said to me that one
of the reasons for this is share capital requirements. You only need £100 to
incorporate an ltd in the UK whereas in Germany it's apparently in the
thousands.

~~~
ValentineC
There's actually no minimum capital requirement for the UK. You can
incorporate a company with £1 in capital, if you wanted to.

~~~
corford
Ah yep you're right. Don't know why I had £100 in my head.

------
corford
I'd say the UK certainly has the lead in Europe in terms of talent pool size,
legal services, tax regime and government support.

I'll shortly be moving back to there and incorporating a company for my
bootstrapped startup. I live in France at the moment and the decision to move
and kick it off from the UK was a no brainer.

One of the major attractions is the SEIS scheme and the potential this gives
me to attract funding via a crowd funding platform like
<http://www.crowdcube.com> This sort of startup friendly business environment
just doesn't exist anywhere else in Europe (at least that I'm aware of).

Edit: in connection to the above, would love to know if any UK HNers have had
any experience with <http://www.vwv.co.uk/> ? I need some legal advice before
I incorporate and I've heard they're good and very startup friendly.

~~~
pilooch
Interested in the reasons behind the 'no brainer' move. We're in France, and
the regime for startups, with innovation tax cuts and other security nets is
pretty favorable. The engineers are pretty good too!

~~~
corford
YMMV but for my specific setup, it was just easier on all fronts. My French
isn't terrible (my partner is French) but English is my mother tongue and what
I'm most comfortable in (especially for business stuff). It's also much easier
to get quick, good access to startup focussed legal advice. Then there's the
SEIS scheme which is very attractive if I run out of runway after launching
and need to look at additional seed funding. Company incorporation is easy and
inexpensive. Rent is cheap if you aren't in the South East (and I'm not locked
in to a long contract as is standard in France). If my startup turns out to be
successful and I need to employ people it's much easier and more cost
effective to do this in the UK than in France. And the list goes on.

I'm currently under the Auto-Entrepreneur scheme here and frankly it's a
bordel :) I'd like to kill URSAFF sometimes...

Edit: I should also say that I'm out in the sticks in the Limousin region. I
imagine things are a bit better in Paris. Where are you guys based?

~~~
pilooch
haha, everyone would like to kill URSAFF, but they are your life after your
biological CPU has turned into a good old Pentium :)

And yes Limousin, may not be your startup hub of choice, but after all, it is
probably cheaper than everywhere else. Probably good enough while you are in
the coding phase, not that good afterwards for sure.

The language problem is real though, and I understand your move much better
now.

We're in Toulouse, some other startups I know are in Paris. Ping me if you
ever come down South (everything above Bordeaux is Great far 'beyond the Wall'
North for us :) ).

~~~
corford
Haha je connais bien "la ligne de Bordeaux"... My partner is Catalan and we
lived near Perpignan for 3 years before moving here - she thinks of the
Limousin as another country!

Would be great to meet up for a beer/wine/ricard and talk startups the next
time I'm in the South. I can't see your email but mine is in my profile.

------
nuromancer
Last time I checked Tel Aviv is in the Middle East not Europe.

~~~
j_col
> As the only “European” startup hub, Tel Aviv...

Indeed! Use of quotes in original piece says it all.

------
yyqux
Tel Aviv is in Europe now?

~~~
duggan
Enough to be in the Eurovision (it's a more complex question than you might
imagine).

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93European_Union_r...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#EU_membership_for_Israel)

~~~
qompiler
Except that Eurovision has as much to do with the European Union as the UEFA
champions league (read: none).

~~~
duggan
For some purposes, Israel is grouped with Europe; that's all.

------
Peroni
There's no question that London is suffering from a funding gap however some
of the excerpts seem incredibly difficult to quantify:

 _They are more motivated by building a great product than by changing the
world compared to SV entrepreneurs_

I also don't really understand how a preference towards mobile orientated
start-ups is indicative of quality:

 _London has been slow in adopting mobile as a new trend. It has 30% less
startups than SV or NYC in the mobile space_

~~~
LeonidasXIV
Because the less it is like SV the less intersting it is. I am joking
obviously, but I found the article strange: it compares all these places with
the be-all-end-all bay area and obviously concludes that it is not the same.
It doesn't seem to consider that being different can also be an advantage.

------
nicholassmith
Depending on what happens with UK politics over the next 3-5 years that might
change dramatically due to the constant drum beating on immigration and EU
reforms.

~~~
freyfogle
Agree, as an non-British EU company founder based in London I can not think of
a better way to discourage investment. Berlin will be the beneficiary.

------
qompiler
Tel Aviv scores fairly high in the funding and support index but poor on the
performance and trendsetter index. Kind of proves the point that $ isn't all
it takes but sure helps you become visible.

------
croisillon
The Berlin pin looks more like Bremen.

