
Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets - notlukesky
https://m.economictimes.com/tech/hardware/apple-starts-shipping-india-made-iphones-to-european-markets/articleshow/70166859.cms
======
rorykoehler
I have mixed feelings about the move of manufacturing to India. Whilst I would
like Indians to be economically successful I can't ignore the ecological
disaster that is happening in their country. It is absolutely terrifying. The
air in Mumbai was unbreathable when I visited and it wasn't even ranking
remotely near the top in the most polluted city air in India at the time
(Delhi's was 3x as bad). Adding to this the much publicised water shortages,
growing population putting strain on the already way over-burdened
infrastructure, accelerating pace of urban development and a healthy
democratic culture which doesn't instil confidence of them being able to
quickly rectify these problems once Chinese style growth has been achieved I
can only predict a disaster of biblical proportions for India in the not too
distant future. I hope I'm wrong but I fear I'm not.

~~~
unexpected
Let's use your reasons, but look at it from the opposite side: 1) The largest
contributor to the poor air quality in India is the practice of burning to
clear fields, cook stoves that use wood, and the burning of cow dung
[[https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-
levels...](https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-
delhi-health)].

One easy way to bring these people out of poverty is to provide them with good
economic opportunities (like factory jobs!). High-tech factories would demand
cleaner, more stable power (natural gas, nuclear instead of coal, wood, cow
dung).

2) India's totally overpopulated, agreed. One way to decrease the population
growth is to bring these people out of poverty. Every developed country has
seen their birth rate decline once they move to the middle class. These guys
need jobs, college, etc, and people will start having less kids!

~~~
sandGorgon
This is super accurate. Fyi - new Delhi has the most stringent vehicular
regulations in India. All commercial vehicles in Delhi run on natural gas -
both petrol and diesel are banned.

India's pollution levels are not industrial or vehicular - they are
agriculture waste burning. And they are timed with agricultural harvesting
cycles.

We have super fragmented farmlands who are really poor and this causes bad
practices of disposal .

We are a service based economy - but to be able to bring the bottom of the
pyramid out of poverty, we need to accelerate manufacturing and bring
modernisation into agriculture. Not to mention education.

~~~
kshacker
Is that really true? Delhi has banned "registration" of such vehicles sure,
but vehicles from nearby states (Haryana, Punjab, UP) and others are aplenty
on the roads and allowed to fill petrol or diesel. Yes the ban has led to
significant impact just pointing out that significant sources of air pollution
remain.

~~~
lozf
I'd noticed that most cabs have out of state plates, and now I know why -
thanks.

------
new299
I’d be curious to know which parts of the manufacturing process are carried
out in India. I assume it includes “final assembly”. But does all CNC work,
PCB assembly happen in India?

PCB assembly in particular, seems unlikely? The supply chains are all in
China, and it’s a largely automated procsss.

~~~
rubyn00bie
It's been hard for me to find a definitive number [1], and what that actually
means, but it looks like to labeled something as "made in India" companies are
required to have 30% of the final product locally sourced.

[1] [https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-
techn...](https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-
technology/xiaomis-make-in-india-strategy-to-include-30-local-sourcing-
criteria-2826436/) I linked this article because the bit at the bottom:

> According to the foreign direct investment rules [...] “sourcing of 30 per
> cent of the value of goods purchased will be done from India, preferably
> from MSMEs, village and cottage industries, artisans and craftsmen, in all
> sectors”

~~~
mikepurvis
I feel like getting to 30% of the value would be a stretch if the ICs, PCB
assembly, and possibly screen are coming from China and Taiwan/TSMC. Like, the
case and battery are worth something, but not tons.

~~~
londons_explore
It's pretty easy to value custom built components whatever you like.

They are either very cheap components, but you paid a massive r&d grant to
have them designed for you, or they are very expensive components but you paid
no r&d costs.

Choose whatever suits to best avoid taxes, quotas, fees, and regulations...

~~~
mikepurvis
I guess that's true. If you're not actually selling them other than in your
device, you can argue that they're basically worthless as bits of plastic and
metal, and all the "value" is being created by the India-based assembly
process that turns them from parts into functioning phones.

~~~
fastball
Not if you're paying X to produce these parts.

You can't say "this part is only worth $10" if it's costing you $100 to
produce.

~~~
mikepurvis
Does it actually cost $100 to produce an IC, though? Like, the manufacture of
the device itself is relatively cheap, especially in volume— all the cost is
R&D, test harnesses, simulation, license fees, etc.

------
Arun2009
Just an aside: one thing people who harp on India's population problem seem to
miss is that the fertility rates in India are on a steady downward trend.
Indeed, it's _below_ replacement level in several Indian states. See here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_terri...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_territories_of_India_by_fertility_rate)
. The literacy rates too are improving (
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India))
as are the poverty levels
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India)).
It's no coincidence that India's poorest states are also its most populous and
also most illiterate. They also happen to wield the most political power in
India.

The trouble is that India has a social bootstrapping problem. India's
governance depends on the leaders Indians elect, which means that the
electorate sets the policy followed by the leaders. And this electorate is
largely poor and illiterate. This means that vastly sub-optimal policies get
followed than what would be ideal. Often religious, casteist and nationalistic
tropes are an easier sell than those based on science, commonsense and reason.
But it also has the advantage that draconian policies that oppress the
citizens don't get implemented.

~~~
baybal2
Very analogous to China.

The wealthy south is a political wasteland despite all notions of "powerful
southerners running things," while Henan has has mere county level cadres on
the committee (an extremely unlikely posting)

In is both a blessing and a curse that the political process happens largely
outside of here.

------
etaioinshrdlu
It would be Courageous to move all production out of the PRC, or any other
totalitarian state.

Interesting to note the article mentions iPhone 6, 6s and 7. I wouldn't have
guessed these were still in production!

~~~
dirtyid
>move all production out of the PRC

...

>Interesting to note the article mentions iPhone 6, 6s and 7

This is pretty much why Apple or other OEMs can't move all production out of
PRC. Mainland supply chain and expertise is critical to rapidly refining and
launching new products. Once manufacturing matures, the process can be
exported to other countries. Apart from Indian, I don't think any other
country can replicate Chinese scale and specific expertise, the latter being
particularly limiting due to demographics. Both would take generations to
develop.

~~~
etaioinshrdlu
Exactly, it would be a courageous move for the richest company in the world
(by cash on hand, seems to still be Apple by a wide margin) to risk losing $$
for standing up with its moral values.

~~~
dahfizz
It would also be great if they donated 50% of profits to charity. Companies
don't throw away money for the fun of it.

For all it's 'courage' and self righteousness, Apple is a profit seeking
entity like every other.

~~~
etaioinshrdlu
Some Apple core values:

[https://www.apple.com/environment/](https://www.apple.com/environment/)

[https://www.apple.com/diversity/](https://www.apple.com/diversity/)

[https://www.apple.com/privacy/](https://www.apple.com/privacy/)

[https://www.apple.com/supplier-
responsibility/](https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/)

Those are some fantastic values. It's our job as the public to demand
companies stick to their values and to cause a ruckus if they act like
hypocrites. And it's our job to pass laws to encourage better values. My 2
cents.

------
techie128
While this is great news for India, it is sort of expected. Chinese mobile
companies have been manufacturing in India and produce 80-90% of their phones
locally.

There are clear benefits for Apple here. China, as a manufacturing
destination, has become less attractive due to rising wages and US-China trade
war. Higher wages are good for Chinese people but not great for manufacturing.
India is a cheaper destination and the recent government has been very
business friendly. India now ranks 77th in the ease of doing business compared
to 130th a few years ago. India has heavily invested in building out basic
infrastructure like roads and power. It has also cracked down on corruption
and a lot of government services have been digitized to reduce opportunities
for corruption. Combined with a cheap labor force that speaks English is a
great recipe for anybody looking to manufacture goods at a cheap price.
Escaping the US-China trade war is a side benefit for Apple.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
Water scarcity is going to be a problem.

~~~
techie128
India has plenty of water. The problem plaguing South India, specifically
Chennai, was anticipated. The central government was fixing it. However it
lacked sufficient support from the state government.

~~~
option_greek
Chennai is sitting next to a Ocean and has sunshine 95% of the days. If they
can't figure the solution to their water crisis it is due to their
politicians.

~~~
oska
Desalination is not a panacea.

~~~
option_greek
Why ?

~~~
gingabriska
I guess because of the high cost involved, middle east has same sunlight, same
ocean and only thing which differs is the money they posses due to
petrochemical exports.

------
fmajid
It’s a bit strange: the EU has not levied tariffs on China, so it would make
more sense to ship Indian iPhones to the US in partial replacement of Chinese
ones and send the Chinese ones to Europe instead.

~~~
lovemenot
It would be strange indeed if US Govt and Apple were the same entity.

If USG wants more of these non-China phones in US markets, what concessions
will Apple get in return?

------
rajekas
It's possible without being patronising or racist to say that India needs to
follow a different model of development than the western one. In fact, that
idea was central to the Gandhian independence struggle - just read the great
man's Hind Swaraj!

There are many reasons for doing so. For one, we don't have colonies we can
screw over - i.e., India's India - while enriching ourselves. Assuming we
would want to do that at all.

We also don't have the window of opportunity that China had for becoming a
manufacturing hub. That's been done and while we can compete for a percentage
of the spoils, it will never be the gold rush that took manufacturing to
China. The politics of globalization alone will ensure that.

Second, we don't have the luxury of several decades of uninterrupted
"development" before thinking about the environment. Climate change is going
to hit us hard well before that, and one look at the water crisis should tell
you that the basic necessities of life will need to be carefully managed.

I have nothing against assembling iPhones in Bangalore. Or becoming the world
capital of CRISPR technologies. However, those can't become the driving forces
of a future India. We need to think boldly beyond those constraints. I am not
saying returning to a romantic conception of an ideal past, but a detour
around the mess that industrial capitalism is already creating and will
continue to create if we don't think of alternatives.

------
jorblumesea
Is there any concern that the PRC issues are just a symptom of a developing
nation bootstrapping? What are the chances that India does the same?

Obviously China has some specific cultural issues but it might be hard for
developing nations to resist the temptation to steal Western tech.

~~~
mc32
There are two main issues with IP and China. One is outright theft (the old
fashioned way), Two is forcing local ownership and IP sharing. It's the latter
that's most problematic for foreign businesses mfg in China. India AFAIK,
unlike China and Russia, doesn't contractually force foreign concerns to hand
over IP.

~~~
rasz
other than drug patents

------
mindfulplay
If anything this will help lift a lot of people out of abject poverty and
disease.

Yes money will get filtered through politicians and corrupt machinery, but the
people and their children will have the tools and education over time to
course-correct their own country.

------
tsjq
is this the signs of beginning of end of 'Made in China' era ?

~~~
jaimex2
Depends if China caves to pressure or not.

------
kitcar
I wonder if these are refurbished units (as they are the older models)

------
codeisawesome
How do giants deal with the lack of a fast moving courts system?

~~~
caymanjim
Mostly through bribery and the use of influence pedalling. I'm not saying that
Apple will directly engage in these practices, or condone them, but whenever
you have a poor country and an inefficient bureaucracy, someone is paying
someone to keep things moving. In the US we've largely legalized bribery and
buying influence, via unlimited campaign contributions and lobbying. The same
thing happens everywhere else in the world, but it's still more under the
covers there.

------
lota-putty
Is there any Ideal-Developed-Nation out there now so that we can compare
others to it?

------
hourislate
Hope it works out for them. It was a disaster for NOKIA.

[https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/features/nokia-
chennai...](https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/features/nokia-chennai-
plant-nokia-tax-dispute-vrs/story/208580.html)

~~~
toast0
I don't think Nokia's many problems were connected to manufacturing phones in
any particular place, or connected to them manufacturing phones in many
places.

------
margeatwork
As a mother who recently found out that the Chinese communist party has been
snatching kids away from their Uighur mothers and fathers and placed in
Chinese concentration camps to be brainwashed, and thus have decided to stop
buying any and all ‘made in China’ products whenever possible.

I just want to say

Thank you to any and all corporations that are moving out of China. It will
make my shopping easier.

~~~
dang
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