
Lyft gaining on Uber as it spends big on growth - timr
http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lyft-gaining-on-Uber-as-it-spends-big-on-growth-7251625.php
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ktamura
There's one area where Lyft is ahead of Uber, the whole "we are nicer" thing
discounted: investment from an auto company (Lyft took money from GM).

If you take a truly long-term view, the marketplace for on-demand drivers will
become obsolete once autonomous driving becomes good enough to be adopted
everywhere. At that point, Uber's biggest edge -financing and supply-side
field logistics- will erode very quickly against companies that own vehicle
production (auto giants) and AI (autonomous driving)

Uber knows this, and that's why they have been investing a lot of money on
robotics and AI around their partnership with CMU. However, they still do not
get the kind of data Google can get from their Maps and Waze (It's interesting
to note that Lyft and Waze partnered) to enable their AI researchers.

Uber is still going to be a very successful company in the next few years: For
technical and legal reasons, self-driving, on-demand vehicle services will be
at least a decade out. But I'm not as sure about Uber's survival in, say, 20
years.

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afarrell
> legal reasons

Keep in mind that AARP is excited about driverless cars because for millions
of seniors, losing their ability to drive means losing their independence.
Also, by age 50, everyone knows somebody killed by a human-driven car. AARP's
members vote at very high rates even in non-presidential elections, so they
are a very powerful lobby.

[http://www.aarp.org/home-family/personal-
technology/info-201...](http://www.aarp.org/home-family/personal-
technology/info-2014/google-self-driving-car.html)

~~~
ams6110
Not clear to me how a driverless car has any advantage for a senior vs. Uber
or Lyft with a driver. In fact it seems less desirable, as the human driver
could help the elderly passenger in and out of the vehicle, help with walkers
or wheelchairs, etc.

~~~
aab0
The hope is that autonomous cars will be much cheaper once you take out the
human element; when a taxi costs $30 for a routine trip, and Uber/Lyft still
have to pay their drivers >minimum-wage, you cannot cater to the elder niche
of doing groceries and making regular doctor trips, not to mention the useful
aspect of 24/7 coverage.

There's also the psychological issues: elderly people don't want to be a
'burden' or rely on strangers, and autonomous cars neatly solve both issues.

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nemo44x
I've used Lyft a few times recently. I'm a little suspicious Uber is using
surge fair tactics on users that have agreed to the pricing in the past when
there is in fact no surge occurring.

When traveling for work I often use Uber and recently there was consistent
surge pricing. The first day it made sense since it was raining. But then the
next few times I used it there was surge pricing - not much, like 1.1x or
1.3x. I agreed because it wasn't too much more and I needed to get to my
meetings and it can be expensed. I mentioned to my Uber driver there was a
surge and he said it didn't come up as a surge for him. The next trip later
that day the surge was 2.2x

But then when I got back home I noticed every time I've brought the Uber app
up there is a "surge". Even during fine weather and non-traditional surge
times. I look outside and there are taxis available (NYC) and I opened Lyft
and there were plenty of options without any surge.

It was probably bad luck (I don't really think they'd get that greedy that
quickly) but it made me try Lyft and I had the exact same experience as Uber.

I suppose this is the market at work.

~~~
twoodfin
I strongly suspect that Uber has (or will, depending on a particular market's
maturity) smooth the curve on surge pricing.

I think most customers are initially averse to ever paying more than 1x, but
once you've gotten used to paying 1.1x or 1.2x, you realize it's still
typically much cheaper than a taxi. It's ultimately in everyone's interests
for prices to adjust quickly and smoothly to demand.

~~~
throwaway2048
Its also in uber's best interests to charge more money if possible.

~~~
twoodfin
Well yeah, by "everyone" I meant to include both Uber and the drivers, along
with their customers.

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imbeau
In Boston at least I've had a far better experience with Lyft than Uber. I
know the driver pool is very similar so it's probably the result of a small
sample size on my part, but Lyft drivers have just been better, happier, and
more conversational.

I've heard Lyft pays them slightly better, so perhaps that's part of it.

~~~
kirykl
It's weird because in a way they should be the same company because they share
the driver pool. But the experience is different I think it's a positive
feedback loop because drivers expect a happier and more engaging customer with
Lyft. And Lyft offers in app tips.

~~~
dwg
I avoid using Lyft specifically because it has tips. Lack of tips is one of
the best things about Uber.

~~~
kirykl
Drivers aren't aware of the tip until the next day and only have a time
reference for it, so there's no pressure to tip

~~~
dwg
Didn't know that; thank you for pointing it out. If you have to have tips,
that’s a good way to handle it.

Nonetheless I prefer doing away with tips for other reasons:

* It’s just one more thing I have to decide, and I’m tired of doing it. I don’t even do a good job. I often tip people based on completely irrelevant things.

* Tips don’t lead to better/friendlier service. Taxi drivers regularly get well over 20% tips but I’ve had very few good experiences in a taxi. Rather, they just expect a tip and get quite made if you leave a small one.

* Tipping is gamed by service workers who learn what to do to get bigger tips and then focus on those things. Other aspects of service are often neglected.

* In Japan service is far superior to America in all the ways I care about, but tipping is virtually nonexistent. Having spent time there, I just can’t get behind tipping.

~~~
ipsi
I think Gett (a Black Cab app I use in London) improves upon tipping somewhat
as well - your choices are 0%, 5%, 10%, or 12%. That's it. No giving a 20% tip
(or a 100% tip because you were drunk-typing or whatever).

I've always just set it to the maximum tip amount, because I figured (a) It's
not that much, and (b) it would result in me getting better ratings, though
after what GP said, maybe they have no idea how much I tipped :-/

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blt
I often ask drivers whether they prefer Uber or Lyft. I've never heard anyone
say they prefer Uber, and I've heard lots of stories about how driving for
Uber is a ripoff. Neither one is a very good deal for the driver, but I'll
continue to prefer Lyft as long as I keep hearing the same opinions. I still
think drivers barely break even once you account for vehicle purchase and
maintenance costs.

~~~
dmix
> I still think drivers barely break even once you account for vehicle
> purchase and maintenance costs.

This is the case in most cities for brokered taxis with or without Uber/Lyft.
It takes working long hours and good luck that your car doesn't break down to
make a decent wage.

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lpsz
Uber has been a lifesaver, but main gripe with UberX as of recently is that
they don't seem to screen cars very well, at least in the Bay Area. Dirty
seats, older cars, noxious air fresheners, etc. all seem to be the norm. Yes,
I do try to leave feedback but wishing the baseline was a notch higher.

~~~
msoad
Lyft requires drivers to go to a mentorship process but with Uber all you do
is sending pictures of your driver license and car to become a driver.

Lyft also sends training videos and material to drivers. Because of the
possibility of the tip drivers are trying their best.

It's a good idea to tip to drivers that do a good job. They are low income
people and deserve that extra $1 more than your bartender that usually earns a
good chunk of money each night.

~~~
yesiamyourdad
With Uber I had to get a vehicle inspection and medical certificate which
required a visit to the driver center. I believe the medical certificate is
legal requirement in my state.

Lyft's mentorship process wasn't much of a process in my experience. I met a
guy at his house, we talked for about 45 minutes, it was kind of helpful but I
felt like Uber's onboarding was more organized.

Uber also has a number of training videos and I think they do a better job
than Lyft at providing information to drivers.

I agree that the tipping thing is huge. When I drive, I get out of the car and
open the door for the passengers, that kind of thing. I also make a point of
keeping the car clean; at least vacuuming before I work a shift. I keep Armor
All wipes in the car too so I can give a quick shine to the dashboard and the
door frame (it gets scuffed up from people getting in and out and shows dirt
quickly).

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jayzalowitz
“From everything I’m looking at, we’re gaining share in all top 20 markets,
which is where 80 percent to 90 percent of rides happen,” 80% of your
ridership, not uber's.

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rorykoehler
I'm looking forward to hailing a self-driving Tesla directly with no middle
man. All the money Uber, Lyft etc are throwing at building a network will be
for nothing.

~~~
batbomb
Wrong, Uber and Lyft will be the operators. You think Google really wants to
get into fleet management?

~~~
vasilipupkin
why not, if it's a profitable activity?

~~~
stcredzero
They'll try to automate it to an even greater extent than their other
endeavors. The only way to ever reach a human will be through lawsuits.

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onewaystreet
Alternative headline: Despite big spending Lyft struggling to keep up with
Uber

~~~
sahaj
That headline doesn't work since they were never head to head to begin with.

~~~
chrisseaton
Struggling to keep up doesn't imply you were ever head to head does it? You
could struggle to keep up with someone for an entire race and always be behind
them.

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jackinmyshoeb
This part of the article is particularly interesting:

"Meanwhile, Uber has been working to fulfill a promise to shareholders and
employees that it would achieve profitability in North America by the second
quarter of 2016, a milestone it says it has now reached in the U.S. and
Canada."

The effects of this are being felt in engineering, there is a freeze on any
new hardware purchases at the moment. You need a new server? Too bad, make do
with what you've got. They've also reduced perks for new hires, and new hires
are being stiffed in terms of compensation compared to what employees were
getting just a few months ago, both in terms of stock and base salary and Uber
credits.

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kombucha2
I just hate tips....

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Stryder
This is a race to the bottom.

The real survival struggle is against Apple, Tesla and Google.

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Tycho
Uber has no moat.

