

Sometimes YC gets it wrong Paul Biggar (NewsTilt) - iphoneedbot
http://blog.paulbiggar.com/archive/why-we-shut-newstilt-down/#disqus_thread

======
iphoneedbot
Its weird, I read this post over and over again to remind me of -i-dont-know-
exactly-what-

I guess it reminds me of: 1) Dont be arrogant 2) People that believe in you
could be wrong too 3) You dont know it all 4) Apologies need to be sincere 5)
Man up!

Im sure it reminds me of other things; but I cant think of it right now.

~~~
pbiggar
I guess you're re-reading in the bad ("what a moron") sense?

I'd love if you expanded on your points. I don't really know what to make of
them. Am I (we?) being criticized? If so, I'd love the opportunity to reply;
if you could provide your reasoning I'd give it a go.

~~~
iphoneedbot
oh, let me clarify. I dont think of you or your writing; or this episode of
NewsTilt to be "what-a-moron-sense". Clearly, you are a very smart guy -(and
thats just based on your writing) You've clearly outlined why NewsTilt didnt
work. And its not right to call someone a Moron for failing.

To expand my sentiments:

1) Dont be arrogant. <\-- Your post is a good piece that reminds me not to be
arrogant. ~You are a smart guy and very articulate -but your post came off as
very arrogant. there were people commenting on your post and your response to
their replys came off _defensive_.

2) People that believe in you could be wrong too. <-YC got it wrong this time
with backing NewsTilt. Smart guys get it wrong too. _and, thats ok._ we move
on and get better*

3) You dont know it all <\-- Thats pretty clear! Cuz people dont know it all;
and when people commented on your post, it felt/read like you were trying to
convince people how smart you are. _we already know you are smart_

4) Apologies need to be sincere <\-- I enjoyed your post because it was
clearly written and gave glimpse to the thought processes and circumstances
that led to the closure of NewsTilt. However, it felt like it was an apology
post without the apology. I felt like the post should have words -sorry- in
quotations. Just felt insincere _heck- even your apology to Matt of Wordpress
about wordpress was lackluster- you even footnooted that wordpress sucks at
the very end (very funny btw)

5) Man up! <\-- sometimes, I guys just gotta say: "Whoa, guys- I screwed up!".
You placed blame everywhere from the honeymoon, to choosing the wrong
platform. --You couldve just said "I screwed up" at the end of the post.

_hey, but Im not here to flog you; or belabor the point. _it was a good post
and I read it frequently. Lastly, the ONE THING that IS important to note
about why you guys failed is:_ You gave up* Three months is a very short
amount of time. ( _and when I say "you" i mean NewsTilt and not_ You*
personally) Everything else is just noise; the bottom line is: Never give up.

~~~
pbiggar
Thanks for clarifying. I'm glad that you got so much from my post that you re-
read it, even if not everything you got from it is positive.

1) I didn't intend the post to come off as arrogant, nor the replies to be
defensive. I guess it's very hard to know what impression you give to people.

3) I think I mostly wrote it as some kind of therapy (I certainly felt better
after writing it). The other part I think was to explain my side of the story;
the internet can be harsh and people made wild and inaccurate guesses in the
absence of an "official" version. And I think I wanted to help people learn
from my experience a little bit too, though since it's so hard to know what
people will learn, I took the focus off that early on while writing it.

4) I never intended to apologize in this post. I did apologize to the people
affected (YC, investors, co-founder, journalists) separately, but this wasn't
about that. I think there's a feeling that we should also apologize to some
community at large, which I didn't do, since I confess I don't understand the
sentiment behind it.

5) I don't really believe in assigning blame in life, just in figuring out why
something happened and taking steps to fix it and make sure it doesn't happen
again. Lots of people prefer to find the culprit or scapegoat, as if that
helps anything. So that's why I didn't do that.

RE "Never give up": I think this is a matter of perspective. I wouldn't use
the term "giving up". Rather, we balanced all of our options and took the best
one for everyone involved. "Pivoting" or continuing in some fashion would have
been worse for everyone.

I think you've fallen into a fallacy I see a lot on HN: that making the
startup work is more important than anything else.

~~~
iphoneedbot
Well let me first start of by saying I respect you and what you have done so
far.

\--but your response itself is symptomatic of what you have demonstrated on my
post and the sentiment I have initially outlined.

1) You said: I didn't intend the post to come off as arrogant, nor the replies
to be defensive. _I guess it's very hard to know what impression you give to
people._

Reply: This is the same notion you expressed about how people/press have
perceived you. Has it ever occurred to you that the way you are interpreted is
because thats how you portray yourself. The impression you give people are at
least 50% your responsibility and waving the flag of ignorance doesnt absolve
you from that responsibility.

Hey dont get me wrong. I love guys like you, because your confidence/arrogance
makes me sleep at night, cuz hiring guys like you is what its all about!

3) I agree with you on this. And I think its ok and great that you vented. But
you must at least concede that there was an undercurrent of emotion(such as
guilt) that motivated the post -and it eventually permeated thru the carefully
chosen words. _but yeah... sucks!

4) Maybe an apology enmasse would be good for therapy -maybe cathartic

5) But, you did assign blame. At least thats how it read. And I can only
assume that is what you intended, since you have demonstrated your
effectiveness with words.

_you did give up. you were three month in to it. you basically decided to do
something else than NewsTilt. And I think that is by definition giving up.
Theres no other perspective to it. there is no other way to interpret it. You
start to do something, and three months in to -you stop; thats giving up.

 __I think you've fallen into a fallacy I see a lot on HN: that making the
startup work is more important than anything else. __

\-- now, thats just condescending and disrespectful _though, im sure you are
very wise in your grey old age. -but; Family, friends, life and love are ALL
important. And yes, Startups too. Actually, theres a bit of irony that you
comment on the fallacy of "startup work is more important than anything
else".. because/// on your post.. you get chastised and you defend yourself
for saying:_ "...but startups need that kind of work ethic from very early
employees–exactly the reason that intrinsic motivation is so important. If
your first employee doesn’t love what you do, doesn’t wake up each morning
dying to work on HIS product, you have likely chosen poorly, and that’s
exactly what we did." *

Anyway...

~~~
pbiggar
> Has it ever occurred to you that the way you are interpreted is because
> thats how you portray yourself.

Yes, of course. What I'm saying is that I don't deliberately portray myself
like that. It's very difficult to get tone right in internet communication in
general, and I don't have that solved, and nor do most people.

3) Sure, there was lots of guilt at the time. We lost $25K that belonged to
small-time investors, as well as spending the $20K YC gave us. As well as
that, we promised lots of things to lots of people, which we didn't deliver.
I'm not sure it's what motivated the post though. The post certainly wasn't
targeted at the people we felt we had failed.

4) But who would we be apologizing to, and why?

5) I really wasn't trying to assign blame. I was rather trying to be as
forthright as possible about the causes of our failure. Assigning blame would
be ridiculously difficult anyway. Who would be to blame for the breakdown in
relationship between my co-founder and I? Both of us? Neither of us? Just him,
just me? None of those are really satisfactory answers, and even if they were,
there's nothing to be gained from them.

> you did give up. you were three month in to it.

We were about 8 months into it, but I think this doesn't affect your point.
What I'm trying to say is that you're trying to assign a pejorative label
("giving up") to something which doesn't merit one.

> \-- now, thats just condescending and disrespectful though

It must be possible point out stuff like this without the assumption that I'm
being condescending, which I'm not (at least not deliberately, see above).

> Actually, theres a bit of irony that you comment on the fallacy of "startup
> work is more important than anything else"

I didn't love what I did anymore, I was waking up dreading the days work, so
this seems to be exactly on point.

