
Alan Turing to feature on new £50 note - hanoz
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48962557
======
danharaj
Chuang Tzu with his bamboo pole was fishing in the Pu river. The prince of Chu
sent two vice-chancellors with a formal document: We hereby appoint you prime
minister.

Chuang Tzu held his bamboo pole still.Watching the Pu river, he said:“I am
told there is a sacred tortoise offered and canonized three thousand years
ago,venerated by the prince, wrapped in silk,in a precious shrine on an altar
in the temple.

What do you think? Is it better to give up one’s life and leave a sacred shell
as an object of cult in a cloud of incense for three thousand years,or to live
as a plain turtle dragging its tail in the mud?”

“For the turtle”, said the vice-chancellor,“better to live and drag its tail
in the mud!”

“Go home!”, said Chuang Tzu.“Leave me here to drag my tail in the mud.”

~~~
lern_too_spel
How does this story apply? Turing has no life to live whether he is on the
notes or not, and _somebody_ will be put on them.

~~~
danharaj
It would have been better for Turing if the government left him alone instead
of chemically castrating him and driving him to suicide, then venerating him.

~~~
pinkfoot
You do realize it’s a completely different government? Indeed, it’s a
completely different population - the castrators are quite dead.

Unless inherited guilt is your thing.

~~~
danharaj
It's not about guilt or justice. That's not the point. But, of course, you're
wrong. It's not a "completely different government", unless you think you're a
completely different person because most of the atoms in your body have been
replaced by now since your birth.

~~~
Nurw
I think he means that it is a completely different government, not because
just the people it has changed, but because the ideals and morals it
represents are completely different. And the people it represents are
completely different. And the methods it uses are completely different. And
the land it represents are completely different. And so forth. I don't know
how much have to change in order for it to be a different government, but I
would say that the last 60 years have completely changed it.

I would also prefer it if you would write down a bit more on why you are
disagreeing with the first point and not just that you disagree, it doesn't
seem very productive to me.

------
jgrahamc
Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of England, came to the Cloudflare London
office opening party recently and he told me that it was entirely the
Governor's discretion to choose who is on the bank notes. This was the first
time the public had been solicited for ideas, and a committee had whittled the
suggestions down to a short list.

Ultimately, Carney made this call. Thanks!

~~~
chongli
Mark Carney is Canadian and was previously the governor of the Bank of Canada.
We've been doing this sort of thing with our money for a long time now. Looks
like he brought the tradition to England.

~~~
hanoz
If you mean the tradition of choosing historical figures to feature on bank
notes, rather than the tradition of boasting about it at office parties, we've
been doing the former sort of thing a long time before Mark Carney's arrival.
Probably the latter thing too.

~~~
chongli
No, I mean the tradition of having a public consultation of which historical
figures to include on the currency.

------
Someone1234
Alan Turing is a good choice. There were many good candidates on the shortlist
(Paul Dirac, Rosalind Franklin, Dorothy Hodgkin, Ada Lovelace and Charles
Babbage, James Clerk Maxwell, etc) that hopefully get their day.

I will say Stephen Hawking absolutely deserves it, one day, but I feel like
the notable person should be dead for a certain period before we throw them on
currency (certainly longer than a year). Conceptually I like the "50 year
rule." Helps mitigate populism or overly politicizing it.

That results in the Queen (or King) being a remark on today, and the Scientist
or other note-worthy contributor being a remark on our history (and values?).

~~~
fortran77
Stephen Hawking would not be a good choice. He wasn't a major force in saving
a whole nation, and he had hateful, controversial political opinions.

Alan Turing was truly a great man.

~~~
widowlark
I would love to know what hateful opinions Stephen Hawking held?

------
folli
The £50 note was described (...) as the "currency of corrupt elites, of crime
of all sorts and of tax evasion".

I recently dealt with a 1000 CHF (= £811 = $1018) banknote in Switzerland.
It's not very commonly used, but it exists.

~~~
sigwinch28
Although not commonly used, it seems the Swiss do not have such skepticism of
high-value notes.

I would routinely pay for things (groceries, electronics, etc.) with 100CHF
and 200CHF notes without the cashiers batting an eye, while I used the 1000CHF
note once or twice for large purchases.

~~~
julianwachholz
Down payments with 1000s on big things like cars is very much accepted here.

~~~
interestica
Where's here?

~~~
travisjungroth
Switzerland. They’re talking about 1000 CHF (Swiss Franc) notes.

------
ddalex
Awesome recognition! I just wish people weren't such dicks to Turing in his
lifetime.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I feel like people would still react negatively to a 40-something picking up
unknown teens (19, in the one case I know the details of) for casual sex?
Particularly if that person were considered a security risk?

People [wrongly] get called a paedophile for such behaviour and get pilloried
in the social press.

Aside: it always seemed like the simplest explanation for the strangeness
around his arrest was that he was compromised (in the national security
sense).

Of course none of that relates to his fantastic achievements in computing.

Fry (Christian fundamentalist) and Newton ( Christian fundamentalist writer)
-- both of whom have been on bank notes -- probably wouldn't fair well in the
court of public opinion nowadays either. Not sure Churchill would make it on
anymore either tbh.

~~~
tialaramex
Newton's thinking was not broadly acceptable to Christians in his day either.
He was a Unitarian! He specifically didn't believe in the Trinitarian
understanding of God that had already been essential to mainstream
Christianity for centuries by that point.

Churchill was a drinker. There's plenty of evidence into the 21st century that
functioning alcoholics are able to maintain status in most walks of life
including politics. Or were you thinking of something else?

~~~
MrsPeaches
His role in the Bengal Famine [1]

His order to bomb Dresden [2]

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943#Debate_a...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943#Debate_about_causes)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_Wa...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It was specifically the publicising of his role in the Bengal famine that was
my primary motivation to contend that Churchill's character is no longer -
since the last couple of years even - held quite so highly.

Dresden is a much trickier call AFAIK, I don't think this is used widely as an
indication of Churchill being morally deficient.

------
arctangent
For the benefit of some below, the design shown in the news article is only a
concept image [1]. The final design will be revealed nearer the time the new
note is issued.

[1] [https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/news/2019/july/50-pound-
bank...](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/news/2019/july/50-pound-banknote-
character-announcement)

~~~
tripzilch
Oh, good! :) because the white glow looks like a really bad photoshop cutout
job ...

------
physicsguy
It’s cool, but the circulation for these notes is really low - I only ever
used to see £50 notes when working in a shop that sold timber to builders!

~~~
jacknews
Perhaps shows the state of Britain's economy/relative worth compared to the
rest of the world, since I used them (true, only occassionally) late 90s/early
2000's, but they must be worth much much less now, due to inflation, not to
mention that referendum thing. It's not because prices are low in Britain aka
Treasure-Island, that's for sure!

$100 bills are more than common, for example, and similar (actually quite a
bit more) in value.

~~~
aembleton
Where would you even get a £50 note from? I've never seen a cash machine
dispense them.

~~~
jacknews
That's just what I'm saying though - if £50 ($65?) is still considered
excessive value for a single note, it's perhaps a reflection on the relative
wealth of Britons. I'm British but have been expatriated since early 2000s

~~~
xxs
Alternatively it can be a shift to cashless transactions for a bit larger
sums.

------
dalbasal
Well deserved. War hero (possibly the greatest of the war) & science hero of
the highest order. Mistreated terribly by the state for his efforts.

~~~
arcturus17
Hate to be that guy, but the Great War is WWI

~~~
dalbasal
oops, fixed

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sygma
A bit off-topic: last time I tried to use a 50 GBP note in London I got
strange looks and it was refused. Apparently anything beyond a 20 GBP note is
seen as "too high". A worrying turn of events…

~~~
drcode
I think this is true in most countries now, in that ATMs are more and more
designed to just spit out a single denomination, which raises the statistical
likelihood that any larger denomination note could be counterfeit.

------
DominikPeters
The table on the mock-up banknote shows a fragment of a Turing Machine, taken
from his paper introducing TMs
([https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Turing_Paper_1936.pdf#pa...](https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Turing_Paper_1936.pdf#page=11)).
Unfortunately, the chosen fragment is just used by Turing to establish
notation and is otherwise meaningless. I hope in the final version they use
better formulas, for example from the construction of the universal machine.

------
duiker101
The more surprising thing is that they are making a new £50 note at all. I
haven't seen one in a very long time and many shops don't even accept them any
more.

~~~
iforgotpassword
That's interesting. In Germany I might get a strange look if I pay for my
coffee with a 50€ bill but it's usually accepted unless they actually don't
have enough change. It's certainly no problem at a supermarket, even paid with
100€ bill a few times (because there is this stupid ATM near my workplace that
doesn't ask which bills I want and just gives me 100 if I chose that amount
and I forget almost every time). Judging from other comments here it seems
outside London you really have trouble paying with that 50£ bill. I have seen
one supermarket had a sign up saying they don't accept 200€ bills so far.

I'm curious about other countries now because I never really gave that a
thought. I was surprised though when I was in China for the first time and
learned the largest one is 100rmb which was around 10€ at that point. It's now
more like 15€ and China is rapidly changing to a completely cashless society
anyways but it was really weird back then; since using the ATM included a fee,
you would get like 4000 bucks at once (depending on how long you stayed) and
run around with 40 bills in your pocket.

~~~
physicsguy
I find travelling to Germany a nightmare for cash.

In the U.K. it’s almost at the point of being cashless - indeed I ate at a
restaurant on Saturday night which didn’t accept cash.

In Germany it’s like going back to the UK in the early 90s in that regard.
Charges to withdraw money from ATMs, the newly built canteen at the office of
a large experiment doesn’t accept card, but also wouldn’t take a €50, which
was also what the ATM gave me!

~~~
lukut
I live in Germany and the problem is, people (cashiers) still haven't
understood that they don't have to pay a minimum fixed amount (like €2) to the
bank, like you have to do with Visa. That's why shops require you purchase
stuff for usually at least €10 or look at you weirdly if you want to pay by
card for a €2 hamburger at McDonalds. Which of course makes no sense, because
they have to pay a percentage, not a fixed amount.

It's frustrating.

(Paying a fixed amount to the bank was a thing in Germany like 10 or 20 years
ago.)

------
panpanna
People on Reddit wanted him on the £10 notes instead.

Makes sense to have ones and zeros for the father of electric computers...

------
bufferoverflow
Good choice of Alan, but what a trainwreck of the design and the typography.
Ugly as hell.

~~~
jw1224
Pretty sure this is only a mockup — the note itself won't be out until the end
of 2021.

I remember seeing a preview of the redesigned £5/£10 notes a few years ago and
thinking exactly the same thing — seeing Trebuchet MS on a bank note was a bit
of a surprise, but thankfully the end result looked far better.

------
sytelus
Isn’t this unusual for British tradition? If I understood correctly, the bank
notes are issued under the authority and guarantee of monarch which is why
they carry her picture. This applies to any country which has also accepted
her as their queen as well (Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc). It is being
said that the queen doesn’t carry passport or banknotes because both are
issues under her name. So there is big symbolism there which will be gone?

~~~
npad
The Queen is on the other side of the note.

------
wlll
The last time I saw a £50 note was in about 1997. I pay with cash a lot. I
think it's fair to say they don't get used all that much.

~~~
epanchin
Why would you receive a £50 paying in cash?

There’s larger note for which you could be receiving it as change.

~~~
travisjungroth
If they pay for lots of things in cash, they must also receive lots of cash
somehow. Otherwise they’ll be out of cash pretty quick!

~~~
epanchin
Cash machines don’t often dispense 50s though, so unless they’re going into a
branch they would never encounter one.

I know people who get out their cash for the month from a branch and do get
50s.

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lamby
Given the hostile stares of disgust and suspicion that result from trying to
pay for anything with a £50 note, the tragic irony that it will now be adorned
by the face of a man who suffered homophobic discrimination is not lost on me.

------
billpg
For context, the £50 note is worth around 63 USD.

(Used to be around $80 a few years ago. Thanks Brexit!)

~~~
criddell
Do you know if the bank sells new notes specifically to collectors? I'd love
to buy one of these if I can get one that is in great shape.

~~~
cr0sh
> I'd love to buy one of these if I can get one that is in great shape.

What you want, IIRC, is known as an "uncirculated proof note" \- at least,
that's what I know it as when it comes to US currency.

They are fairly easy to get from the US Treasury, I believe - as they will
typically sell low-denomination proof sets (with coins too) as "collectibles".
Whether other countries do the same or not, I am not sure.

If you go to the Bank of England's website:

[https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/)

There's a contact link at the top - I believe they are the organization that
releases Britain's currency, so I would contact them to find out how you can
obtain such an uncirculated note.

Indeed, I want to do the same, and that's where I plan to start. Hopefully, we
can get it for the face value (about $63.00 USD at current exchange rates),
plus maybe a tad more for shipping, handling, it being uncirculated, etc. I'm
expecting - well, hoping - to not pay more than $100.00 USD for the note.

Seems a bit crazy, but then again, I've paid a lot of real money for a fake
money note (it was something shot out as "confetti" into the crowd of a
concert, and it was in great condition - I never went to that concert because
I didn't know the band then - plus I doubt I would have been in the pit where
those notes landed - price and danger (mosh) would have deterred my older
self).

~~~
criddell
I emailed the bank and they replied that they do not sell notes to collectors.
They go into circulation.

There might be a nice little side-business for somebody that wants to get
fresh new notes and sell them to people like us.

------
_bxg1
Not only is he an important historical figure, but England owes him a great
debt (and reparation). Previously they'd only "pardoned" him; this is a
stronger gesture.

------
codeulike
The formulae and the binary ticker tape are a nice touch.

~~~
thom
Shame he didn’t make it onto the £10 note tbh.

~~~
mises
Is there any thing that makes the $10 more prestigious than the $50? Not an
Englishman, so I may not know something about this.

~~~
wlll
It would at least get seem more. Last time I saw a £50 note was I think around
1998.

~~~
travisjungroth
All these comments about how rare £50 notes are really make me want one.

~~~
Symbiote
If you're in the UK, just go to your bank and ask to withdraw £50. Job done.

If you're somewhere else, go to your local money exchange place with the
equivalent of £50. I almost guarantee they will have some.

------
smcl
Just a shame that this bank note is basically unusable

~~~
maffydub
Can you elaborate on why they're unusable?

~~~
diggan
If it's anything like using the 50 euro bill in Spain, it's hard to use them
in everyday transactions as usually places don't have enough change (or want
to loose that change) for 50 euros if you order a coffee for example.

~~~
Symbiote
Assuming you have two €20 notes, which have no other purpose, making change
from €50 is no different to making change from €10.

It's more likely a concern about a counterfeit note, although I've never had
that problem with a €50.

~~~
michaelt
Right, but if at the start of the day you've got no €20s but 4x€10 in your
till, that could be change for 4 customers with €20s - or a single customer
with a €50.

And a policy of "no €50s" is simpler and clearer than a policy of "€50s
accepted only if we have at least 2 €20s in the till" which means customers
won't know if they can pay until they reach the till.

The reasons a small business might not keep a large float of €20s in their
till is probably obvious!

------
dwighttk
They should put "There's no such thing as _The_ Turing Test" somewhere on
there.

------
arethuza
_“This is only a foretaste of what is to come, and only the shadow of what is
going to be.”_

What a great quote.

------
univalent
Great recognition!!! Excellent design as well. Well done 'Bank of England'.

------
dannykwells
Wonderful choice!! Hoping for Rosalind Franklin next!

------
ptah
that picture of him is remarkably high-res for a £50 note

------
schnable
Nice, but a click baity headline for HN...

~~~
julianwachholz
It's fixed now

------
golergka
Aside from the excellent choice of Turing, this is some godawful design, with
all the worst Photoshop cliches from the 90s.

~~~
suaveybloke
It's just a rough mock-up, the final design should be much better (at least
that's what happened with the redesigns of the £5/£10 notes).

------
robert_foss
It is funny how the article doesnt mention him committing suicide as a result
of being chemically castrated by the UK authorities for being gay.

~~~
wlll
TBH if it was me I think I'd prefer it if not every single mention of me in
the future brought up what is ultimately a rather personal and unpleasant
thing. Yes, it was an appalling thing to have been done to him, but if I were
successful I think I'd rather my successes were celebrated standing alone.

~~~
robert_foss
I think there's value to not sweeping these things under the rug. In the
shockingly recent past we've committed atrocious things, and there's nothing
stopping us from doing it again apart from us learning from our past.

As for a society honouring it's heroes, it rings a bit hollow when it through
persecution killed said heroes. Being honoured when you're dead does you very
little good.

~~~
GarrisonPrime
Not beating a dead horse about something isn’t the same as sweeping it under a
rug.

I’d rather not have every single bit of communication contain a reminder of
some past horror.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
I tend to assume when a past horror is reiterated that it might be new
information for someone else. I'd much rather new historical nuance be
introduced to a new person over the unpleasant information being privately
mine and others left ignorant.

------
jeffwass
Title should probably be updated to explicitly say it’s Alan Turing who will
feature on the note.

~~~
dwardu
And lose clicks?

~~~
quickthrower2
Or gain clicks, given the audience. They’ll care more about Alan Turing than
about a fiat currency.

------
rolltiide
they using bootleg Photoshop 6 at the Bank of England? yeesh

~~~
random42
How do you know this?

~~~
rolltiide
just a reference to the low quality look of the composite image

~~~
C1sc0cat
Probably deliberate don't want to give forgers a high quality image to work
on.

------
henntipular
Is it a picture of before or after the government betrayed and mutilated him
in a homophobic witch-hunt?

Thanks for helping win that war.. shame about your sexuality tho

------
anticensor
Adolf Hitler could have been a good choice.

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colordrops
Ironic considering some countries have already transitioned to mostly digital
payments.

