
Fitbit will lay off 110 employees amid challenges in wearable market - happy-go-lucky
http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/30/14439028/fibit-layoffs-q4-earnings-report-weak-holiday-sales
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CydeWeys
I've said it before and I'll say it again: A big part of Fitbit's problem is
the poor hardware quality of their products, especially considering the high
price. A lot of people, me included, will never buy another Fitbit after
having been burned.

Their warranty only lasts one year, yet I've had to replace both Fitbit
devices I've had twice within that one year. I'm now Fitbit-less because the
latest, a Charge HR, failed for the third time, and it's out of that one year
warranty.

To give you an idea of how bad the Charge HR is, its charging plug attaches
with metal prongs, but it plugs into a slim plastic housing that is only glued
to the rest of the device. The obvious result is that the plastic housing
eventually gets pulled off with the plug. That's how two of my three Charge
HRs have died. It'd be like if your laptop were ruined within four months
because the power cable pulled off an essential piece of the laptop housing
rather than detaching cleanly, and now it won't attach in order to charge. The
third Charge HR bricked itself during an unprompted firmware update, which
started randomly and then I guess got interrupted midway through when I moved
my phone too far from the device. It never recovered.

I don't know what the hell they're optimizing for over at Fitbit HQ, but
they're trying to sell $10 throw-away quality devices for >$100. It's
outrageous. I actively discourage everyone I know from ever buying anything
from them, and many other people I know have also completely sworn them off
for the same reason. Their product just sucks.

~~~
nemild
Is your experience emblematic of the that for most customers? Some of the
things you mention seem like fundamental design flaws, so I'm curious if most
customers have issues?

~~~
theli0nheart
Been using Fitbit devices since 2010, and using a Charge HR since it came out.
Never had a problem like OP's.

~~~
CN7R
I've had mine for more than a year and a half -- my charge hr hasn't failed
yet. But my cousins' have, which leads me to wonder what if the issue is user-
caused.

~~~
CydeWeys
I wasn't rough on it. I wore it 24/7, except in showers/water and when
charging it. I don't tend to break anything else in my normal life; I'm not
one of those people who's rough on things. I just had repeated Fitbit
failures.

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dkonofalski
So long, farewell! Don't let the door hit you on the butt.

Fitbit totally killed itself for me when it decided to launch its own
ecosystem without integrating itself into HealthKit and Google Fit. I
understand that they thought they were creating an ecosystem for their users
but by choosing to ignore the platforms that the major OS manufacturers had
created, they essentially locked everyone out of integration with non-Fitbit
devices. I bought a Fitbit Aria scale and a Fitbit device and was furious when
I found out that I couldn't integrate that data with MyFitnessPal or RunKeeper
or Strava without buying another app to allow syncing to the Fitbit website.

Now I have an Apple Watch and we traded our scale for a Withings scale that
works with HealthKit and Google Fit and everyone in the family is happy
whether they're on Android or iOS. Walled gardens are fine but not if they're
locked, walled gardens.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Fitbit totally killed itself for me when it decided to launch its own
> ecosystem without integrating itself into HealthKit and Google Fit.

They launched their own ecosystem before both HealthKit and Google Fit
existed; there was nothing for them to integrate with.

~~~
dkonofalski
While that may be true, Fitbit was one of the launch partners for HealthKit
and debuted their web interface at the Apple Keynote where HealthKit was first
shown. Google had info online that Fitbit was working with them from the start
to include integrations. They pulled out of both _after_ they had already had
a functional integration.

Edit: Fitbit launched their web integration in 2012 and there are mentions of
a partnership from both Google and Apple from the same year. It doesn't sound
like your statement is as truthful as you may think.

~~~
snuxoll
The lack of HealthKit integration and needing to use half-assed hacks like the
sync apps on the iOS AppStore really turned me off fitbit. Since their API
doesn't let you pull anything but basic data like steps walked you were
effectively locked into their little garden with your data.

I'm much happier with my Apple Watch as a fitness tracker, I wish the battery
was better and it had sleep tracking support because that's the one feature I
seriously miss from my Charge HR.

~~~
macintux
Fairly confident there's sleep tracker software available. People have had
success in charging it for ~15 minutes at night before bed, then charging it
in the morning while getting going.

------
Periodic
Nine months ago I had an offer to join Fitbit's engineering team. When I first
started interviewing I didn't even realize the company had gone public a six
months before. I guess I missed the news.

Looking at the stock price and talking a little with the employees, it was
hard to get excited. It had gone from an initial surge of $47/share to
$14/share. It looked like an overeager IPO to raise funds for a company that
really hadn't quite figured out its market yet. We've seen them many times,
but I'm not yet sure what the commonality is. Not having a lasting market? Not
having the growth potential?

Most people at the company had an optimistic outlook, but it would be hard to
work there and do recruiting otherwise.

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diego_moita
Wearables only have 2 "killer applications", so far: notifications and
fitness. To broaden their appeal they need to find others. I don't think that
will happen this year.

The next likely killer application for wearables is probably automation,
authentication and interaction with other devices. However the problem in this
area is that the standards are too fragmented (AllJoyn, Homekit, Google's
Brillo, etc) and the devices didn't reach critical mass, yet.

But you can be sure wearable devices won't fade away.

~~~
Analemma_
The Apple Watch can do authentication to some extent: Authy has an Apple Watch
app, and there's Apple Pay. This is the kind of stuff I don't think Fitbit can
easily duplicate, which is why I think they're going to struggle in the
future.

~~~
stcredzero
_The Apple Watch can do authentication to some extent: Authy has an Apple
Watch app, and there 's Apple Pay._

I'd love it if I could securely store all of my passwords on an Apple Watch,
which would require my fingerprint to unlock. But only if there was Bluetooth
integration for macOS and USB devices for integration with random computers.

~~~
kejaed
1Password has an Apple Watch app, and you can choose the passwords you want to
have on your watch. With a PIN on the watch that locks it when taken off one's
wrist, I'm pretty happy with that sort of security.

Another step would be a extra 1Password pin, of some other kind of something
you know code. A 4 pad touch screen that could use a combination of short
press, long press, force-touch press as a combination would be pretty cool,
come to think of it.

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r0muald
So buying Pebble was nothing but their previous try at surviving in a
challenging wearable market? It's really difficult to wrap my head around
these two recent moves in a way that makes sense.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I think its pretty easy, Pebble adds some additional "watch" market, and if
you lay off the people you've added more customers without adding a lot of
additional cost.

Long before it was 'trendy' the monitoring your hearbeat etc market was there
for serious athletes. That is, and continues to be a niche market. So there
are too many players chasing too few customers who aren't going to upgrade
their equipment every year and aren't willing to pay a monthly service charge
for reading that equipment so the market seems quite a bit smaller than it
once appeared.

~~~
sundvor
At the same time, you've got disgruntled Pebble fans such as myself who were
dying for the Pebble Time 2, and majorly upset about not getting it.

Unless they actually launch a revised Time 2 under a different name, I'm
flummoxed as to how they'll capture my interest.

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sremani
I have bought my share of fitbit, Band etc. The only way to make wearables
tolerable is making them less smart and more accurate.

Accurately measure my heart rate and stop bugging me about a stupid text!

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
This is why I've been eyeing a Garmin Vivoactive HR. I know people slam Garmin
because they feel behind but if there is one thing they know it's accuracy.
There's a reason they're the goto brand for cyclists, runners and triathletes.
It's because they work reliably.

~~~
noyesno
Consider also the Fenix 3 - it was plagued with software bugs when launched
but the firmware is now stable and delivers what it says on the tin. You get a
nice smartwatch and fitness tracker with GPS/GLONASS and good integration to
other sensors (Bluetooth and ANT).

Plus, as the icing on the cake: you can easily get a week or more of use with
a single charge, if you don't use the GPS.

~~~
asimilator
I have a Fenix 3 HR, and unfortunately I couldn't disagree more. I wouldn't
recommend it to anyone.

Automatic sleep tracking is abysmal (regularly off by >4 hours, sometimes
more). The wrist heart rate monitor tends to have inaccurate spikes at least
once a day, and when the watch doesn't detect motion the wrist heart rate
sensor is essentially turned off (sampling rate goes to greater than once
every 30 minutes). Resting heart rate is calculated in at least 3 different
ways in various parts of the UI (and none of them seem accurate). And then
there's the tons and tons of bugs (and terrible iOS companion app).

Honestly the hardware is ok, but I get the impression that Garmin just hasn't
invested in (or doesn't know how to do) software. It's not worth the (very
high) asking price in my opinion.

~~~
gamblor956
I have the Fenix 3 HR, and I couldn't disagree with you more.

It works almost flawlessly. GPS pickup is less than 30 seconds in nearly all
situations. The wrist-based HR is accurate to within 1-2 BPM during activities
when measured against Wahoo Tickr and Polar heart-rate straps (but the flaw:
it's slow to pick up sudden jumps in HR, such as during intervals). The
battery lasts at least a week with 2 hours of active GPS use a day (and almost
2 weeks with battery saving features enabled and GLONASS off). I've dropped it
on asphalt, concrete, and rock and it doesn't even have a scratch.

My guess is that most of your problems are on the iOS end. Apple is notorious
for breaking interoperability with wearables through iOS "updates" since the
iWatch was released. Polar and Suunto watches also seem to have issues for
iPhone users that don't crop up for people syncing their watches with their
computers or Androids.

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akshayB
Even if you are a premium fitbit user and use their customer API you don't
have access to some data point for heart rate, cardio time-frames and
performance stats. They not only need to catch-up but also provide people
their own health data forget HealthKit and Google Fit integration that is like
step 2.

~~~
snuxoll
They don't _WANT_ to provide people their own health data, I'm guessing. They
demoed a full integration with HealthKit years ago but canned it, I'm guessing
for the exact same reason.

And honestly, I think this is exactly why Fitbit ended up failing. They tried
to create a walled garden where you would collect all your data into their
service, the hardware wasn't what they wanted to sell you, but their premium
services.

~~~
akshayB
I am a developer and I was a fitbit premium user for long time but I cancelled
my subscription. I went over all their APIs but failed to get data where I can
export my detailed workout and cardio stats. My main purpose was train myself
for even more intense workout looking at the data. It was just a very
disappointing experience.

~~~
mholmes680
FWIW, I set up IFTTT to export to a Google Sheet daily. Not sure if it will
give you the level of detail unless the API is already providing it though.

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phhlho
After 3 Fitbit Charge HRs dying on me within a year, I've left FitBit and
moved on to Garmin. It's a shame because my Flex was solid for multiple years.

~~~
CydeWeys
I've had the exact same problem both with the Flex and then with the Charge
HR. Their hardware quality is just terrible, especially given that they're
expected you to pay >$100 on their devices! I now go out of my way to actively
dis-recommend Fitbit (as I've done in this comments thread).

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nfriedly
Bummer, I hope they can recover from this. I just got my wife a Charge 2, and
she really likes it. It definitely does a better job at tracking things and
encouraging fitness than any of the other devices we've owned (Flex, Charge,
Apple Watch, Huawei Watch).

I can't comment too much on quality yet, but the charging cable now grips the
entire device, so that should help avoid some of the issues they've had in the
past.

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clavalle
What is the most programmable wearable?

I'd love to have access to my watches display, sensor, and communications
features.

~~~
diego_moita
Android Wear is very open, it is very much the same api as normal Android. The
main limitations are on the UI and a few specific issues like bluetooth
advertising. Tbh, even Pebble didn't allow you so much access as Android Wear
(e.g.: Pebble's bluetooth api was very limited).

Samsung's Tizen and Garmin's ANT seem quite open too, but I just studied the
documentation, didn't actually wrote code for them.

Xiaomi's Mi band, FitBit and Apple Watch are very restricted.

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hboon
Relevant to those mentioning the build quality of Fitbit devices:

FWIW, my wife and I used several generations of Jawbone UP over a few years
and, we roughly go through 1 every 3-6 months. It's certainly not Fitbit only.

Compared to the Apple watch, we have a pair of 1st gens, one of them's battery
and display spoilt after 12-13 months, the other is still going strong at
~14/15 months.

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throwaway_374
I always thought this was simply nothing more than an overpriced step counter
and nothing changed the perception for me - if anything, the glorified
marketing felt quite deceptive. Strangely, on the contrary, I find myself
addicted to the "step counter" on my Galaxy S6 everytime I go for a run.

~~~
teach
I have a Fitbit for exactly two reasons: sleep tracking and heart rate. The
step counter is _interesting_ , but I wouldn't have bought a device just for
that.

~~~
CN7R
I have a charge hr -- mostly for silent alarms to wake me up without
disturbing my roommates, and timer function in case I need to track something.
Oddly enough I don't care about the step counter or the heartrate sensor.

~~~
teach
They used to say that most people only used 40% (or 80% or whatever) of
Microsoft Word's features, but that each person used a different 40%.

I suspect that fitness trackers and smartwatches are like that, too, but that
it's more like 20% of the features.

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samblr
To me it looks like only big Internet companies or companies in CE space can
pull of in this space. Because both have an unbelievable advantage in terms of
ecosystem. If outsider fails to integrate into this existing space - there is
likelihood of they not making into longer runs.

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brunoluiz
I am quite curious to see what will happen with Android Wear devices and Apple
Watch, as the weareable hype is kinda declining (and once it was "the next big
thing").

~~~
grzm
My impression is that Fitbit is seeing a lot of pressure from devices like the
Apple Watch. Though I've encountered people who still like and use a Fitbit
even after purchasing an Apple Watch, I can see that declining in the future.
I think wrist devices like the Apple Watch and similar Android devices are
here to stay, especially as they get smaller, have added features, and the UX
improves.

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shanemhansen
I'm surprised. It seems like for the last several months I've been noticing
fitbits on the wrist of several prominent people.

Maybe their product is just too simple and does it's job too well. Judging by
trends in the market, people won't be satisfied until their watches have about
8h of battery life and are privy to all the 0-days of android.

Ignore my grumbling, I'm just an old fossil who wants phones to at least be
phones and watches to at least be watches. Call quality on my phone seems to
drop every year, and my wife's $500 smart watch barfs on syncing her music
library.

------
supergirl
I'm not surprised. fitness wearables turned out to be pretty bad quality. sold
only because of the buzz.

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tsaoutourpants
I just saw job ads from them last week. WTF?

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ffef
Well, that was fun while it lasted.

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omouse
Why not let people work but for fewer hours instead of laying them off? This
is ridiculous.

