
Got a sweet tooth? Your gut bacteria are asking for some sugar - dazosan
https://massivesci.com/notes/gut-brain-axis-sugar-microbiome/
======
11235813213455
I know fruit contain still a bunch of sugar, but a bunch of fibers and a
treasure of nutriments

If only more kids were raised with more fruit and vegetable in mind than
processed products.

What's a better treat than an apple, an orange, a persimmon, fig, kiwi (tip:
don't hesitate to eat them with the skin, above all if they are organic), and
spinach, salad and all sort of herbs, or even a raw scallion or leek for the
adventurous?

~~~
lurquer
>What's a better treat than an apple, an orange, a persimmon, fig, kiwi...?

If 'better' refers to taste, the answer is simple: an Oreo.

~~~
jacobush
For someone who really likes sweet chocolate etc, an Oreo is too vulgar even
too me. I feel sick to my stomach. Powdery sugar with something brown in it.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Are there different Oeros? What you described doesn't seem to fit the
description of a the North American Oreo. It's artificial sweetened shortening
wedged between two chocolaty "wafers". No powdery sugar involved.

~~~
ebg13
> _Are there different Oreos?_

In fact...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oreo_varieties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oreo_varieties)

But I suspect they are describing the texture of the classic wafer when
chewed, which does seem like an apt description.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Oh yeah there's a ton of varieties, but I was wondering if there was a
regional thing here where the products are totally different even with the
same name, like chips.

~~~
jacobush
No I mean the classic (I assume) dark wafer with white shortening in it. Now I
also remembered how vile the white stuff is too - it kind of sticks to your
upper palate.

There are sugar overloaded competitors [0], which are pretty shameless too.
But at least they taste like an honest lot of sugar, flavouring, fat and
flour.

I feel bad for kids getting fat on Oreos. If you get fat on real sweets, at
least you taste something decent in the process. Oreos are vile. I have given
them the benefit of a doubt!

I have even tried putting them in ice cream, thinking maybe they are just too
sweet, and that their sweetness will fit better together with something else
not as _intensely_ sweet. But no, the ice cream just diluted the Oreo vile-
ness. The perverted, gone-one-step-too-far industrial wiff of Cthulhu was
still in there, carefully masking the fun from each spoonful of icecream.

Vile.

0:
[https://www.goteborgskex.se/products/](https://www.goteborgskex.se/products/)

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
That's a lot of vitriol for a tasty vegan snack.

~~~
jacobush
Uranium, selected from the finest natural ore, carefully enriched, is vegan
too. :)

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Harder to chew though.

~~~
ebg13
Just grind it fine enough and mix it with vegetable shortening.

------
AnonC
> One of the key things in the study is that all of the action is happening
> away from the tongue. This shows that there are circuits inducing our love
> for sugar, beyond our love for sweet tastes. _This also helps explain why
> artificial sweeteners have not changed our consumption of sugar,_ since they
> fail to activate this new gut-brain circuit.

Could this be (yet) another explanation of why people who use artificial
sweeteners don’t control their weight or real sugar intake in the long run?
Developing habits is quite hard for many people. Any advancement in handling
sugar addiction (without other negative side effects) could prove to be a good
thing for all humans (except the ones running corporations whose purpose is to
create, maintain and increase such addictions).

------
silviogutierrez
Maybe. Or maybe you're just bored and looking for a distraction. I'm certainly
guilty of that.

HN + Ice Cream is 200% more interesting than HN without Ice Cream.

When you are craving something, ask yourself: "Would I eat boiled tilapia
because I'm so hungry?"

If the answer is no, you're not hungry. Just bored, or thinking of food.
Reductionist, but it works for me.

Writing it down _before_ giving in to your craving also helps immensely.
Shameless plug, I do run a nutrition tracking company at
[https://www.joyapp.com](https://www.joyapp.com). But even a handwritten log
will help.

~~~
foxyv
I've found I crave food for the reduction in anxiety. Fasting makes me feel
panicked and anxious. (Like I need to get outside and chase down something to
eat RIGHT AWAY.) Eating relieves that anxious feeling. It's not true hunger,
just pain and suffering. Exercise and controlled breathing help a little. But
mostly just make the effects happen faster.

~~~
ta17711771
Sounds like withdrawal (sugar).

See: white bread intake, sugar intake.

~~~
foxyv
Yeah, seems to not be a problem after 2 days of fasting. I kind of focus on
protein and fat before a fast to try and get there a little earlier.

------
iruix
Why does this article talk about _bacteria_?

I don't see any mention of bacteria in the original article
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2199-7](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2199-7)
Instead, if I understand it correctly, it seems to say that it's certain
intestinal cells (not bacteria) that sense sugar. Do I misunderstand, or is
the news article wrong?

~~~
greenyoda
The Nature article's abstract says:

> _neurons in the vagal ganglia and brainstem are activated via the gut–brain
> axis to create preference for sugar_

Wikipedia says:

> _Broadly defined, the gut–brain axis includes the central nervous system,
> neuroendocrine and neuroimmune systems, including the
> hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis (HPA axis), sympathetic and
> parasympathetic arms of the autonomic nervous system, including the enteric
> nervous system and the vagus nerve, and the gut microbiota._ [1]

Having access to only the article's abstract, it's hard to know how or if the
microbiota (bacteria, etc.) are involved in nerve activation. E.g., are the
neurons activated directly by glucose, or are they activated by some chemical
that the bacteria produce in the presence or absense of glucose?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut%E2%80%93brain_axis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut%E2%80%93brain_axis)

------
digitalsushi
I've had this sticky note on my monitor for 2 years that says 'what do my
intestines want for lunch'

I'm very one dimensional and being in opposition of something trying to
control me has helped me get much more in shape this decade. I basically got
fit because of a personality flaw but I am happy with the results

~~~
voisin
Can you elaborate on how reminding yourself of this has changed your
behaviour? How do you action this?

------
tuatoru
Rule of thumb: If you don't think carrots taste sweet, you're eating too much
sugar.

------
blakesterz
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2199-7](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2199-7)

"...these findings reveal a gut-to-brain post-ingestive sugar-sensing pathway
critical for the development of sugar preference. In addition, they explain
the neural basis for differences in the behavioral effects of sweeteners
versus sugar, and uncover an essential circuit underlying the highly
appetitive effects of sugar."

------
freedomben
The article doesn't mention whether giving those bacteria the sugar they want
is a _good_ thing. I am not an expert by any means but I have researched this
extensively as a lay-person. I would be very concerned that this sugar is
feeding the wrong kind of bacteria (or fungus) and would ultimately be
harmful. That's before you consider the negative effects of consuming sugar.

------
themodelplumber
> These neurons are stimulated in response to sugar but not artificial
> sweeteners

That kind of sucks for those who reach for e.g. stevia to add to their tea
when feeling the sweet tooth?

> Brain stem and vagal ganglia

So would it be appropriate to guess that this sugar benefit has something to
do with the brain processing more primal pressures, like really harsh
treatment by a boss at work?

------
_curious_
"The scientists directly injected either glucose or an artificial sweetener to
the guts of mice, and saw an activation of different regions of the brain when
glucose was present, but not with the artificial sweetener. "

How do they directly inject?

~~~
NortySpock
In humans this would typically be an oral or naseo-gastric tube that runs down
to the stomach, effectively bypassing the mouth.

Of course you could use a needle but that's generally rare.

Not sure what is considered standard for mice.

~~~
uoaei
Maybe an artificial, intentional fistula like they do with cows to study and
monitor their digestion.

------
pier25
> _they genetically silenced that specific brain region, which completely took
> away the mice’s preference for sugar_

Hopefully it will not come to that in humans and someone finds a way to "re-
educate" gut bacteria :)

~~~
forgotmypw17
It's easy to re-educate them with fasting.

~~~
AnonC
That mostly works if one is able to stay away from other humans and social
events forever. For the rest, there are ditches everywhere to fall into.

~~~
strobeflier
Self-discipline. Impulses and social pressure are more like brightly lit
billboards than ditches. You don’t have to fall for them.

~~~
forgotmypw17
I think our current culture over-emphasizes "self-discipline" or "willpower"
and doesn't admit the influence of our environment enough.

Personally, as a nearly-life-long sugar junkie, I know that if I'm around a
pile of cookies, it is difficult to resist, and will wear me down until I eat
one, and then another, and then another...

On the other hand, if there is no pile of cookies, there's no temptation or
possibility of that happening.

I have had much more success with adjusting my environment than with trying to
exercise willpower.

