
Michigan Police Search Cell Phones During Traffic Stops - dpatru
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp
======
patio11
Friendly reminder: the magic words for dealing with the police are "I do not
consent to a search. Am I free to leave?" It's just business: you never need a
reason to ask for more money in a negotiation and you never need a reason to
avoid waiving your Constitutional rights.

If they need your iPhone address book they can get a search warrant. (Our
historical understand is that they _do_ need a reason for asking for that sort
of thing, and that your papers and effects enjoy a strong presumption of
privacy.)

~~~
shpxnvz
_If they need your iPhone address book they can get a search warrant._

While I agree that's our right as protected by the 4th, some states have
determined that only probable cause is required to confiscate and search cell
phones (e.g. California). In those states refusing to consent will not help
(except of course if you plan on taking the case to SCOTUS).

~~~
evilduck
Curious, what about password protected cellphones?

"Sure officer, here's my phone, you're welcome to fiddle with the password
screen until you wipe the device."

~~~
manvsmachine
In the article, it said that the device used could extract data regardless of
whether the phone was password-protected or not. Looks like it's time to start
encrypting our cellphone data as well.

~~~
evilduck
To clarify, I was curious about California's situation.

~~~
shpxnvz
I don't recall any mention of the specific methods used in California, but in
this case the officer took the phone when he arrested the person, so
presumably the police had quite a long time to muck about with it. Here is one
of the original articles covering the California Supreme Court ruling:

[http://arstechnica.com/tech-
policy/news/2011/01/warrantless-...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-
policy/news/2011/01/warrantless-cell-phone-search-gets-a-green-light-in-
california.ars)

------
rflrob
> The state police responded by saying they would provide the information only
> in return for a payment of $544,680.

Anyone know what Michigan's Freedom of Information laws are like? Half a
million seems ridiculously high for a FoIA-type request.

~~~
r00fus
[http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17337_18160-51242--,...](http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17337_18160-51242--,00.html)

Relevant text: A government agency may charge a fee for the necessary copying
of a public record for inspection or providing a copy of a public record to a
requestor. A public body may also charge for search, examination and review
and the separation of exempt information in those instances where failure to
charge a fee would result in unreasonably high costs to the public body. _The
fee must be limited to actual duplication, mailing and labor costs._ The first
$20 of a fee must be waived for a person who is on welfare or presents facts
showing inability to pay because of indigency.

( _italics_ mine) Translation: The $500k "fee" is another denial/delay tactic

~~~
ceejayoz
> The fee must be limited to actual duplication, mailing and labor costs.

All they have to do to drive up the costs is pay a secretary to duplicate by
manually transcribing digital data as ones and zeroes.

------
blargherson
Because the citizenry are complacent. 60 years ago, my grandfather would've
led the charge to hang these traitors from the nearest convenient lamp-post.
Now, I'm too busy waiting for the next American Idol to be bothered with the
whole messy business. Vote from the rooftops, its our only hope.

------
1010011010
Never help the cops. This includes never talking to the cops.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik> \-- Part 1

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE> \-- Part 2

~~~
colomon
Thanks for the reminder.

~~~
1010011010
It's like preaching the gospel.

------
Stormbringer
Wow, this is outrageous. Is this the same state that declared war on it's own
teachers? Why are they so messed up?

~~~
Harkins
Yes, you're thinking of the right state:
[http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-04-15-detroit-
te...](http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-04-15-detroit-teacher-
layoffs.htm)

~~~
rmason
Check the date in the article. This started under the previous Democratic
governor Jennifer Granholm. I live just outside the capital and trust me this
was done quietly, very quietly never making the papers until the ACLU lawsuit.
Judging from my friends this is opposed by people in both political parties
and I doubt will be allowed to stand.

------
mikeknoop
How do these traffic stops work? I think someone is exaggerating something.

"Hello I stopped you because you were going 85 in a 70 mph area. Please give
me your license, insurance, and cell phone"?

What laws govern police asking for things?

~~~
AndrewMoffat
_What laws govern police asking for things?_

From what I've gathered, police can ask for all kinds of things that they
legally have no right to (searches, being let in, etc), but you can still
ignorantly comply. They can even legally lie about shit to persuade you.

~~~
jshort
They can also do things that are illegal and then lie about them after if
needed. Or just make up some false probable cause to warrant a search.

~~~
stretchwithme
One ought to be able to consult a lawyer or ombudsman during these attacks on
your civil rights.

You haven't committed any crime. Who's supposed to be serving who here?

~~~
notyourwork
Have to disagree with "You haven't committed any crime" because these to my
understanding occur during traffic violation. Not saying I agree with the
practice but am saying cops are not pulling over perfectly legal drivers and
saying "Sir/Ma'am please handover your cell phone".

~~~
pmichaud
Traffic violations are mostly civil matters, not criminal matters.

~~~
ams6110
No, civil matters are things like contract disputes, medical malpractice,
negligence, etc. I.e. disputes between two private parties.

Traffic violations are violations of the law and thus are criminal matters
(though generally misdemeanors).

You can tell the difference by whether there is a County/State/Federal
prosecutor involved. Prosecutors don't bring civil claims to court.

~~~
pmichaud
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_ticket#United_States>

First sentence reads: "In the United States, most traffic laws are codified in
a variety of state, county and municipal ordinances, with most minor
violations classified as civil infractions."

------
softgrow
Could we use a more reliable source? Thenewspaper.com is anonymous. Try
[http://www.aclumich.org/issues/privacy-and-
technology/2011-0...](http://www.aclumich.org/issues/privacy-and-
technology/2011-04/1542) A bit more believable.

------
davidandgoliath
Android phone encryption: <http://www.whispersys.com/> \-- the good sire
@moxie_ makes it. I believe it's supported on the nexus one and nexus s.

They all at some point will have the source code available, though until that
occurs I've only got redphone / textsecure installed. Great apps., great
developer.

~~~
shareme
all encryption always has source code..

and encrypting folks are not real smart..they make human mistakes like all of
us..

------
morganpyne
The Cellebrite website is here: [http://www.cellebrite.com/forensic-
products/ufed-physical-pr...](http://www.cellebrite.com/forensic-
products/ufed-physical-pro.html)

Wonder if they sell to private individuals?; they only seem to list military,
law enforcement and intelligence agencies as their target customer on their
site.

To defeat over 3000 models of phones it would need to have about 2000
different connection types, based on my experience trying to plug in and
extract information from various manufacturers extortionately priced dongle
custom connectors.

I found myself inadvertently helping a friend today who's abusive manipulative
ex-partner has been sexting their 14yr old daughter and I was helping her
recover the messages to present to the police; could seriously have used one
of these and avoided a heap of hassle with drivers, cables, custom software.
(The NZ police don't seem to have these devices yet)

~~~
noonespecial
I'm thinking I need an app that immediately encrypts the flash should it ever
detect its been placed in a "Faraday bag".

I've actually tried to isolate a phone from the network for testing. Its much
more difficult that it seems like it should be. I'm wondering if such a thing
works or if this more of a gimmick.

The only reliable way I've found of making sure my iphone is truly off the air
is to take it to San Fran _(1)_...

 _(1)_ I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

~~~
morganpyne
You could take a lesson from the Mozilla Foundation about isolating phones in
Faraday Cages:

[http://oduinn.com/blog/2010/02/11/unveiling-mozillas-
faraday...](http://oduinn.com/blog/2010/02/11/unveiling-mozillas-faraday-
cage/)

Or you could stick it in a microwave. (I've used this to test if my home
'repaired' microwave is leaking radiation. Stick your phone in it and close
the door. Call it. If it rings, chuck your microwave out :-) If it doesn't,
well, I wouldn't stake my life on it not leaking and I'd still get it tested
professionally.

Only problem with this microwave trick is that it's hard to push the buttons
once the door is closed! You can use it to test your microwave, but not your
phone unless your app doesn't need any interaction. Also, an app that encrypts
on loss of signal would be of limited use where I live in NZ. The Vodafone
network drops in and out so often you'd flatten the battery on the phone real
fast with all that encryption action.

~~~
jemfinch
If your phone doesn't ring and you're not feeling _warmth_ when the microwave
runs, you're fine.

Microwaves don't do much more than excite water molecules. Those excited
molecules would manifest as a simple perception of increased heat if there's
somewhere your microwave is leaking. If you're not feeling that, you're safe.

------
morganpyne
Just reading some more about the device in question. The downloads section of
their website has some interesting information.

<http://www.cellebrite.com/ufed-support-center/downloads.html>

The "Apple iPhone Passcode Bypass instructions" document explains that they
can bypass your iphone User Lock, but they need access to a plist file from
the iTunes installation on the machine which the phone syncs to, which is
often unlikely to be available at a routine traffic stop.

------
colomon
One point which I haven't seen come up in any discussion of this: Michigan now
prohibits texting while driving. So at least in theory, checking your cell
phone could determine whether or not you were violating this. I wouldn't be
surprised if that is a major part of the justification for this.

Of course, even that wouldn't justify anything but getting your last few
minutes of chat log off the phone...

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alexqgb
Looks like the phone in the picture was on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.

~~~
joshu
Huh? It looks like a myTouch.

~~~
hartror
Kinda looks like the opening to _A New Hope_.

------
cookiecaper
Pretty crazy, and a great argument for device-level encryption on mobile. I
really hope someone gets it together and exposes Linux's encryption support on
Android devices. I think it'd be pretty difficult to grab the key from memory
with a device like that, but you should be able to turn the device off or pull
the battery when you get stopped anyway if that's a concern.

~~~
CWuestefeld
Just got an Android two weeks ago, and I'm shocked that so far I haven't been
able to find TrueCrypt or similar software available for it. Does anybody know
of a solution?

------
Nate75Sanders
Any word on how this device works?

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jijoy
This is a free country ? Iran , is better I must say

