
Austria to make basic face masks compulsory in supermarkets - tosh
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-austria/austria-to-make-basic-face-masks-compulsory-in-supermarkets-idUSV9N286016
======
xkapastel
Masks _do_ protect the wearer! And you do not need an N95 mask to do this.
Even a simple homemade mask offers some degree of protection. This[0] was a
good explanation of both of these ideas.

tldr: There is reason to believe that large droplets, not the tiny droplets
that N95s are designed to filter, are the primary threat, and any sort of
physical barrier between those and your mouth/nose will help.

[0]: [https://medium.com/@Cancerwarrior/covid-19-why-we-should-
all...](https://medium.com/@Cancerwarrior/covid-19-why-we-should-all-wear-
masks-there-is-new-scientific-rationale-280e08ceee71)

~~~
rv-de
I think the idea that larger droplets are required for an infection is
congruent with an R0 of about 3. If super small droplets would be sufficient
then a single person would easily infect pretty much everybody taking a bus
with her/him together. R0 would be much larger.

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ornornor
It really doesn’t help that the WHO and various governments lied to people
about masks... many people already distrust these authorities and think it’s a
hoax/conspiracy. Good luck now that we know they lied about the masks! I get
why that was done, but maybe there would have been a better way like
explaining hospitals need the masks but you can make some yourself at home or
use a scarf to mitigate the effects.

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ginko
Ironically there's a law against wearing masks in public in Austria

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-
mask_law#Austria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#Austria)

~~~
b3n4kh
Masks are explicitly allowed. They cleared that up right aftre the law come to
effect.

""" kein Verstoß gegen das Gesichtsverhüllungsverbot vor:

Mund- und Nasen-Schutzmasken, Atemschutzmasken; Gesichtsverhüllung zum Schutz
vor Frost """

Roughly translates to:

""" It is no violation of the ban on face covering:

Mouth and nose protective masks, respiratory masks; Face covering to protect
against frost """

Source[1]
[https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/themen/leben_in_oesterreich/au...](https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/themen/leben_in_oesterreich/aufenthalt/Seite.120251.html)

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rini17
To everybody complaining about shortage: You really don't know anyone with
basic sewing skills?

Here in Slovakia masks or similar face-covering measures are semi-mandatory
for 2 weeks already (mandatory since today) and it's non-issue. Many people
know how to sew a decent-looking one using instructions from internet and some
leftover cloth.

~~~
Scarblac
I do know people with sewing skills but I can't go visit them during social
distancing :-/

~~~
jkadlec
Sew one yourself, it doesn't need to be perfect.

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franze
We (people in Austria) are under lockdown now for 15 days. Allowed to go to
the supermarket and short walks with the live-ins. It is clear that it will
not be enough to get rid of the virus. To get R<1 we need addition
restrictions and actions. This is just one of the next steps.

~~~
Tepix
Yes. Countries that have managed R<1 have their population wearing masks in
public.

------
pentae
I'm in Thailand right now and everyone even the expats are wearing them. Why?
Because the law in our local jurisdiction has mandated that if you are outside
you must wear a mask. And if you don't, the police will fine you and can
arrest you. They even set up checkpoints a couple of days after it was
announced and now everybody wears a mask. It's great, actually

~~~
revscat
How has Thailand handle production? In America, masks are nowhere to be found,
and ordering the online takes a month or longer.

~~~
mcjiggerlog
Asian countries already have a culture of wearing face masks in public. I
imagine they already have the supply chains set up whereas America is needing
to either import or build up the production capacity.

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m3nu
About time. The purpose of covering your face, even with a simple mask was
misunderstood for too long: It’s not protecting you, but others.

~~~
bitcharmer
Sure, but how are people supposed to wear masks if they can't buy them
anywhere?

~~~
HorkHunter
They will be provided at the doors of the supermarkets

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CHsurfer
This seems like such a no-brainer. 3Blue 1Brown did a video on epidemic
simulation, and central markets, places where people in the region congregate,
are major factors in the the rate of disease spread. Limiting the transfer
coefficient in these places has the key to reducing this impact, assuming you
can't prevent people from going there.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs)

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arkitaip
All of this confusion regarding the usefulness of masks simply because of
WHO's misinformation.

Lex Fridman made this research.based video about masks that you might find
useful [0]. Take a look at the data; even a lousy scarf can provide _some_
protection against virus particles.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFmaSNP6_z4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFmaSNP6_z4)

~~~
alkonaut
I think the important part of the discussion is to separate the concept of
protecting others from the concept of protecting yourself. As a population we
can likely protect each other somewhat by wearing poor/basic masks. If it
reduces spread by a few percent it's worth it _so long as masks are available
without starving supplies in healthcare_.

Healthcare staff must protect themselves as well, so need real protective
masks. So long as those masks aren't available to healthcare, we should avoid
buying them in the rest of the population. In the meantime perhaps a lousy
scarf can be used.

------
thesimp
Are there masks for sale then? Here in The Netherlands there are no n95 masks
available for the average person. I understand that hospitals and 1st aid
responders need them now, but in the short term I would like to be able to get
some.

~~~
jaclaz
JFYI, the N95 masks are NOT intended for the average person anyway. (in EU
they are called FFP2/FFP3)

They need face fitting and some basic usage instructions.

If not correctly fitted they won't be effective, as air (like in more common
"surgical" masks) will enter (and exit) from the sides.

~~~
jmkd
These masks are fairly standard consumer use in the UK for various DIY
activities in the home and supplied by hardware stores as such. Note P3/FFP3
are higher standards than N95.

~~~
jaclaz
They are just fine if the idea is to protect oneself from dust, but here we
are talking of protecting from a virus (and to protect others, so valved masks
are not suitable).

Rough correspondence:

FFP2 is 94%

N95 is 95%

FFP3 is 99%

Source (an UK firm):

[http://www.ashsafety.com/tips/filterClass.htm](http://www.ashsafety.com/tips/filterClass.htm)

> Finding a suitable respirator is not just a matter of choosing a model you
> like or by the cost of it. You may need to try different makes or sizes to
> find one that fits without leaking around the seal and letting dust in. A
> respirator that depends on face fit is ineffectual if you have a beard or
> thick beard stubble. The only way you can know if the seal is good enough is
> by having a proper respirator fit test. At present this is also the only way
> of meeting legal requirements.

And here is (again UK firm) how a fitting test works:

[https://www.xamax.co.uk/blog/how-to-respirator-face-fit-
test...](https://www.xamax.co.uk/blog/how-to-respirator-face-fit-test-
guide.html)

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choutos
They also said that "the medium-term goal is to wear masks everywhere".

------
rhipitr
Are there any companies in America mass producing basic cloth masks right now,
or at least distributing them at scale?Trying to buy one online seems to be
quite challenging right now (either back ordered from Amazon, or purchasing
from Etsy are the only options I have found). To be fair, I have not searched
too hard. I guess I can learn to sew as well.

------
netwanderer3
Supermarkets in South East Asia countries like Vietnam would not even let you
go in without a face mask. Similar to how lottery is a game of chance and to
win it requires you first buying a ticket, if life and death are too a matter
of luck then to cheat death due to this virus at least mandatorily you must
first be wearing a face mask.

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greendestiny_re
I applaud this measure. Please stay safe, wear the mask and think of the
elders!

------
gergelykralik
It's already compulsory in neighboring Czechia and Slovakia, not only in the
supermarkets, but at all public places

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kerng
The good thing according to the article is that supermarkets will hand them
out - I assume, for free.

------
mcsb4
Homemade masks made of a double layer of tea towel cloth are not only
protecting others but also protect yourself nearly as effectively as N95
masks.

The original research was made by PHE - Public Health England and the results
are:

 _B atrophaeus - ~1um :_

Surgical mask 96.35% filtering

Double layer tea towel 96.71% filtering

 _Bacteriophage MS2 - 23nm :_

Surgical mask 89.52% filtering

Tea towel one layer 72.46% filtering

The full paper is on researchgate, title: "Testing the Efficacy of Homemade
Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?"

Also every super market should have the use of hand sanitizer obligatory at
the entrance.

There is a pretty good video for simulations of the epidemic spreading [1] -
it is not going to stop until we either have a vaccine or ~60% of the
population have antibodies. So the choice is to sit the next 12-18months at
home or we fight the transmission of the virus.

Masks cost nothing compared to the economic disaster that we are running into.
The virus spreads via mouth and nose and secondary via the hands. So just stop
it at the source.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs)

~~~
gruez
[deleted]

~~~
mcsb4
As I wrote:

Bacteriophage MS2 - 23nm :

Surgical mask 89.52% filtering

Tea towel one layer 72.46% filtering

-> Thus still ~70% filtering of 23nm particles for the one layered towel. They didn't put the number for a two layered towel in there, I wonder if it did beat the surgical mask.

~~~
gruez
>As I wrote:

>Bacteriophage MS2 - 23nm :

oops, misread the units!

------
Markoff
so late? neighboring Czechia has mandatory masks (or anything covering your
nose and mouth) in every public space at least for a week, I think Slovakia
also already for quite long time

~~~
kubav
Czechia made it mandatory because government made really huge mistakes in
first 2 weeks* and they are scared and panicking because health care system is
underfunded for long time. There is no reason to wear mask in every public
space as everything except centers of big cities is empty during lockdown. It
makes sense inside but not in parks and empty streets. It just forces people
to waste masks which are not in huge supply globally.

* In February prime minister forbid hospitals to buy face mask and decided that he will buy them centrally and than distribute them to hospitals. In the begining of March when coronavirus appeared in Czech republic he also sent finacial control against face mask importers to ensure that they are not selling anything. He wanted to look as savior of the country but he wasn't able to buy any masks so for 2 weeks there were only 10 000 mask from reserves for the whole country. People started to sew mask at home and partially saved situation. After that prime minister made wearing mask mandatory which in my opinion is mainly PR to make the home made masks look like his own initiative. He also spreads fake news about Germany, Austria and other west European countries saying that they are not responsible and that they just copy Czech measures when it is too late. But in reality his administrative is really struggling without any plan and his main efforts go to PR.

~~~
Markoff
the point with wearing masks at all times in public space is you don't have to
take it off and put it on all the time you pass around someone, you never know
when there will be someone around you and even if you are alone you can still
cough the virus on surfaces where it can survive at least for few hours
touched by other people

I agree it's quite pointless for healthy not coughing person, but it's just
easier to order everyone to wear them than checking one by one who is sick and
who is not.

not sure how is mask wasted, if it's cloth mask you can just microwave it or
boil it, if it's medical mask you can just leave it on sunny surface until
it's for sure clean again or microwave it, same applies to respirator

~~~
kubav
Doctors in television told us that we should always throw away used medical
masks and respirators as they might contain viruses and you are risking
infection if you use them again.

~~~
Markoff
TIL virus in Czechia lives on surface infinitely

in rest of the world maximum 9 days

------
amelius
An obligation to buy something once you've touched it seems sensible too.

~~~
kubav
It is enough if you do not touch your face and clean your hands at home. It
will not go into your body through skin.

~~~
amelius
Ok, but theoretically the virus could end up on a box of cereals if someone
didn't wash their hands. At that point, having breakfast could be hazardous.

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Havoc
Right during a global mask shortage.

So how does that work? No mask, sorry no groceries for you.

~~~
HorkHunter
This is the basic cloth masks that are easily manufactured, wearing them can
protect -or reduce the chance- others in the same space from catching the
virus.

~~~
Havoc
>This is the basic cloth masks that are easily manufactured

I get that. Just saying I don't think I could easily obtain one without going
to a couple of shops (I'd need to try a few - no idea who stocks masks).
People running around without masks to obtain masks sorta defeats the point.

~~~
HorkHunter
Not really, they will be available at the doors of the supermarkets /
locations that are allowed to stay open.. so no worries of anyone looking
around for them.

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AzzieElbab
Are the masks available in Australia? They aren't in Canada

~~~
vldx
The thread is about Austria, not Australia; the article states that
supermarkets will be providing masks free of charge.

~~~
AzzieElbab
Whoops. Still ..

