
Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit - howard941
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/01/766057380/how-magic-mushrooms-can-help-smokers-kick-the-habit
======
JonAtkinson
I used another psychedelic (DMT) to self treat my alcoholism. While it is
early days still, I am almost 600 days sober.

The drug allowed to me introspect and access my mind in a way which was
previously blocked. From the perspective it unlocked, it was easy to see the
harm I was doing to myself and others. It changed my life.

~~~
cheez
I've got a habit I'm trying to break as well and I pondered using drugs. But I
don't do drugs otherwise. How do you go about finding DMT?

~~~
magnamerc
You can buy pre-cursors (or known as analogs) like 4-AcO-DMT online from
Lysergi. They are sold as a 'research chemical', however they metabolize into
psilocin so it is indistinguishable to psilocybin. Obviously you should take
every pre-caution before ingesting any substance by doing your own research,
and looking into the authenticity of the supplier.

~~~
cwkoss
pedantic semantic quibble: precursors are molecules that are used to produce a
target molecule. Analogs are molecules which are a functional substitute for a
target molecule.

5-Aco-DMT is an analog to psilocin, and is believed to be a prodrug (converted
into target by your body), but I think precursor is a misnomer in this case.

~~~
magnamerc
Yeah that's why I added analog in brackets haha. But I believe you're correct

------
monktastic1
Why are they called "magic" mushrooms? Because they remind you that life is,
in a sense that we rarely recognize, truly magical. We can adopt the
materialist lens and say that they "rewire your brain" \-- and in a certain
sense, that's of course true. But the crucial point is that experientially,
you discover firsthand that life is precious _beyond belief_ \-- beyond what
the rational mind can contain -- and if cigarettes (or depression...) aren't
helping you express that transcendent truth, well, bye bye. And that's not
something you easily forget.

(And on a grander scale, if our modern way of living isn't helping _life_
thrive, well, maybe it's time to make some loving changes. So I'm glad this
research is being done.)

~~~
7373737373
After a decade of solitude, they helped me realize that I was living in a
machine world. It showed me how to love myself, other people and nature again.
Yes, it was like magic, a true perspective change, a reintroduction to the
human world.

It showed me what supreme contentedness and connectedness is after this long
time of seeing the world purely in differences - within myself, without myself
and in the relationships between me and my environment. Unity.

Understanding what love is. Why people go to parks. How they can enjoy life.
Why they bond. The beauty of life and subjectivity.

When you are in a state of happiness, everything in the past and present seems
meaningful and positive in some way, because all of it brought you to this
state of being. Even if it was terrible. Even if you didn't dare to consider
it. In this state, you can contemplate these things because you are overloaded
with serotonin.

I advise everyone to use a tripsitter when they experience this, especially
for the first time. Respect the drug and it will respect you.

If you don't know anyone and think you are alone, do not be afraid, there are
people who will do that for you

:)

~~~
benevol
> you can contemplate these things because you are overloaded with serotonin.

And while serotonin definitely is involved, it is only a part of it.

The real "magic" can happen because psilocybin/LSD/etc. allows you to increase
your frequency. This in turn allows you to tune in to other ("higher" and
immaterial) dimensions that surround us all the time. Most of us normally do
not yet perceive them in everyday life, but these special molecules can make
that happen for us - for a few moments at least. Some call this state
"heightened intuition", others call it "getting in touch with your guides",
others call it "opening your clear-senses". The benefit of such a short "peek
behind the veil" is that at least your subconscious will always remember that
there is an infinite profoundness to life that we completely ignore in our
current way of living/culture. This is why many people get out of their
deep/long-lasting/clinical depression, sometimes by experiencing only a single
dose of LSD. They have seen "it", maybe heard "it", or smelled "it", but most
of all, they have _experienced_ "it" and it will stay with them - "it" being
this mysterious force of pure joy, love and deep understanding (which is much
more profound that any intellectual understanding).

Word of caution: Before you go ahead with such an experience, make sure you
take all the time in the world to educate yourself about all of it. Then make
sure your source sells you the actual and pure substance; maybe test it
beforehand if you can. Plan your trip carefully. Do it in nature and
undisturbed.

~~~
voldacar
How do I measure this frequency? What would it look like on an FFT plot?

------
npo9
I think it’s clear that there is a push for magic mushrooms to follow the same
path as Cannabis has.

It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint)
one drug at a time. From my political position it’s personally insulting that
institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my
body. I’m an adult, I can either make those decisions for myself or hire
experts for consultation to help me make the decision.

~~~
SamBam
> From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such
> as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body.

I'm of two minds about that. While I agree that I ought to have full autonomy
over my own body, at the same time the state has a vested interest in not
allowing its population to fall victim to life-destroying drugs, especially
when those drugs target the most vulnerable members.

Russia's heroin problem has been rising and rising -- apparently 2% of the
population are addicted, and much higher rates for certain segments [1] -- and
people talk of a "lost" generation. And it may get even worse.

I think our social contract with the state involves not allowing that to
happen to its population.

[1]
[https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120792...](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120792687)

~~~
UglyToad
You might be interested to learn that heroin is actually quite a safe drug and
safer to self-administer than paracetamol [0]. While you're right that the
state has a duty to protect its citizens the war on drugs, all drugs, has the
opposite effect.

Drugs are a public health problem not a criminal one. People are taking things
like heroin primarily due to other factors in their life, which the state
should address. For drugs like magic mushrooms lack of availability is
increasingly looking like actively harming the availability/development of a
positive treatment for many conditions.

[0]:
[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/14/drugsandalc...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/14/drugsandalcohol.socialsciences)

(tldr the negative impacts of heroin all arise from its criminalisation, while
it is extremely addictive it's also extremely hard to overdose on when taken
on its own)

~~~
kragen
> the negative impacts of heroin _all_ arise from its criminalisation

This is something of an exaggeration; heroin withdrawal can happen even
without criminalization, for example, and is profoundly unpleasant, and
constipation can dramatically reduce your quality of life. But certainly those
negative "impacts" pale compared to the epidemic of drug-overdose deaths
caused by prohibition, or even prohibition-induced unplanned withdrawal
experiences.

~~~
UglyToad
That's a good point. I guess in addition poly-drug use is made more likely by
criminalisation but doesn't necessarily cease with legalisation.

------
carapace
Set and setting. The drug just rattles your cage.

I quoted Leary on 'set and setting' the other day on an LSD history thread and
mentioned Leonard Orr used to get great results with nothing more exotic than
oxygen, so rather than repeat that (
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21264919](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21264919)
) I'll say this:

If you have a modality of therapy that works, it will work without the drug
(which, at best, serves as an amplifier and a "convincer".)

If you _don 't_ have a modality of therapy that works reliably, then it's
irresponsible to add drugs and hope for the best. You're banging on the side
of the box hoping to reseat the vacuum tubes.

The "convincer" effect can be achieved without drugs. Not to be too mysterious
but I mean hypnosis. _You can e.g. quit smoking using hypnosis. It 's not even
hard._

I'm not against drugs _per se_ I'm just against using them in therapy. It's
irresponsible. It's like advocating zeppelins over bikes for personal
transport.

(I'm great friends with Mushroom, and a little 'shroom tea can be great fun.
But cramming 'im into a wee lil pill and then claiming "quit smoking" magic is
in it... That's bad science and lousy magick.)

~~~
anon192831
It's not just hitting the vacuum tube. If one just trips for the sake of
tripping, then there is not much to be gained except for several hours of
happy serotonin hits in the brain.

However, what we know about psychs is that there is a huge release of BDNF
(brain derived neurotrophic factor) and a shutdown of the DMN.

The BDNF enables a ton of new neural connections to be built. It's like you
have about 6-8 hours of a period where your brain plasticity goes back to that
of an infant, just absorbing everything. So in this accelerated learning
state, it's possible to work through one's emotions.

So it makes sense to prepare for several weeks to receive therapy and to
outline goals and memories to revisit to process them during this heightened
period. Then when the drug wears off, you're still left with the new neural
connectivity and perspectives and the other benefits that were derived from
the session.

Rather than hitting the vacuum tube, this is more like re-running the radio
scanner in your car to find radio stations when you've moved over to a new
city and the old radio stations are now out of range while one isn't tuned to
the current set of radio stations.

~~~
carapace
> So it makes sense to prepare for several weeks to receive therapy and to
> outline goals and memories to revisit to process them during this heightened
> period. Then when the drug wears off, you're still left with the new neural
> connectivity and perspectives and the other benefits that were derived from
> the session.

The you're describing sounds _great_. All I'm saying is, a sweat lodge (for
example) can take the place of the drug. The "magic" is in the "set and
setting" not the pill.

~~~
_lacroix
Yes, I would be very curious as to your sources for this. I did medically
supervised psychedelic treatment; I found the setting rather unpleasant
because it took place in a doctor's office and one of the many anxieties I was
treating was a lifelong phobia of germs and anything medical. This was a far
cry from a sweat lodge or from recreational psychedelic experiences I've had
with friends in nature etc. I did not enjoy all of my trips and some were
hardly even reflective experiences because they caused me so much anxiety in
the moment, yet I got massive psychological benefits from them nonetheless.

------
vlutton
This actually worked for me. I was a habitual marijuana user for several years
and it had very adverse effects on my productivity and motivation, but I
couldn't seem to quit. Then I did mushrooms with some friends and when I woke
up I simply did not have the desire to smoke anymore. It has been around 12
years and I haven't ever picked it back up.

~~~
QualityReboot
Just as another data point, I actually love weed with no desire to quit, and I
too found myself questioning if it's even something I want to keep in my life
after a psychedelic experience.

One of the weird things about psychedelics is that you'll often think "why
don't I take better care of myself?" which often includes not doing the drugs
or living the lifestyle that gave you that insight.

I also think I enjoy weed less since I've had that experience, which I'm a
little disappointed about, but I feel like I have a much better compass for
making good decisions now. I replaced grams in blunts with small amounts of
whole leaf vaporization after that.

------
krsdcbl
I can attest to that. In my early tweens i was in a severely depressive state
and would be actively rejecting psychotherapy and just keep going further down
the spiral - it all changed after a one or two experiences with magic
mushrooms.

Despite not using them in a clinical, supervised environment, or in
conjunction with therapy, the experience actually had me somehow understand
where my depressions came from and helped overcoming them like nothing else
did.

Of course it didn't "cure me", managing depression has been a way longer
journey - but for me it changed my life from "barely able to get up" to a
state where i was actually able to do things, start working, live my life and
care for myself almost overnight. Literally felt like it had re-wired my
brain, never since relapsed into quite such a dark and hopeless state i was
living in back then.

~~~
pddpro
>the experience actually had me somehow understand where my depressions came
from

While I realize that it is an entirely personal matter, I can't help but ask
if you can perhaps share some of your insights?

~~~
krsdcbl
It's really quite hard to explain as anybody who's had psychedelic experiences
will probably tell you - but for me it was something like this:

A major reason for my depressions where my fathers early death, which i hadn't
really processed up to that point. In my first ever trip, some hours in i fell
into a state where all that sadness and regret just overpowered my conscience,
quite literally myself. Yet at the same time i was calmly observing myself,
and i was able to reflect quite deeply onto my emotional state, ironically all
whilst beeing utterly unable to control it.

This "loss of ego", i could maybe describe it as an "out of body experience"
made it incredibly obvious to me how to put my regular emotional state into
context and understanding how rejecting the process of grief and feeding my
fears of loss had created the state i was living in.

Afterwards all those things that had an unshakeable grip on me started to
become understandable in a way you'd understand ANOTHER person going through
this, reasoning wasn't clouded anymore from my affection. I think that was the
tipping point

~~~
krsdcbl
Tldr; it quite literally "killed my ego" for a short time and allowed for an
unclouded view onto what was going on with me. And that way of reflecting my
emotional state stayed with me ever since

~~~
9HZZRfNlpR
A lot of the people using them mention killing the ego, I've never done
anything like that and wonder what do you think under the word ego? I know the
literal term obviously.

~~~
pshc
Way I see it, the ego manifests as a bunch of defense mechanisms that seek to
preserve the status quo of one's existing personality, by distorting one's
perception and generating sometimes-intrusive thoughts. The ego is also the
thing that always wants more... more adulation, attention, money, etc.

As an example: given that you have free will, at any moment you could say to
yourself, "hey, there are X and Y habits/traits I have, let's not do those
anymore and do Z instead." Maybe it's smoking, eating badly, you don't treat
people the way they deserve, being a doormat, whatever. You could absolutely
choose to become an entirely different person overnight. You might also change
your career/lifestyle overnight (not everyone is so lucky though).

Now the ego swoops in and says, "Hold on, let's not do anything crazy, it'll
be scary and embarrassing if I suddenly act differently, what will my friends
think? It's easier to keep on keeping on. These habits are just things that _I
would do_. It's okay when _I_ do these things because I'm _me_." and so on
like this.

------
happythen
Awesome. So the last two years I have asked people if they know anyone with
shrooms, I really wanted to quit dipping (Copenhagen tobacco), been dipping
for 15 years, and heard this really works.

No one I knew had any leads, not really shocked by that. But I quit dipping
anyways, about 6 months ago. Moral of the story: sometimes your friends don't
have illegal drugs and you have to suck it up and do right things the hard
way. Second moral: having friends that have drugs would have made all this so
much easier.

~~~
ojhughes
Can you not go and pick them where you are? I thought liberty caps were pretty
widespread over Europe

~~~
AllegedAlec
Just delete this comment. If you're not an expert on mushrooms, picking
mushrooms is basically playing Russian roulette. Telling people to do so is
wildly irresponsible.

~~~
codr7
Precious few mushrooms are truly poisonous.

And I've picked and eaten A LOT of supposedly dangerous ones, as well as other
plants; something I suspect most people speaking out on the subject haven't.

As a matter of fact, I just got some red amanitas out of the freezer that I
picked a few days ago. I'm going to fry them in butter with onions and garlic
and make a lovely shroom sandwich.

Like amanitas, liberty caps have a very distinctive look. Soak them in water
for a while if at all unsure, and only eat a small amount to begin with.

The really dangerous stuff is pushed by "science" and the people who come up
with this FUD to sell their artificial, truly poisonous and addictive chemical
cocktails for awesome profits instead.

~~~
amanaplanacanal
I love mushrooms, and pick and enjoy both edible and psychedelic types, but
this advice is frankly terrible. Russian roulette indeed.

------
jcranberry
There was a New Yorker article a few years ago about an experimental
psilocybin treatment program in NYU and Johns Hopkins. Obviously the numbers
were quite small considering government approval would be shaky and all that
but it found that it was effective in treating addiction and chronic anxiety.

Here it is:

[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-
treatment](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment)

------
eyegor
To anyone curious, this was studied at a small scale with promising results
across several psychedelics. Most notably lsd and mdma (in addition to
mushrooms and dmt). I can't seem to locate links to studies at the moment, but
I'd suggest reading _How to change your mind_ by Michael Pollan if you're
interested in this stuff.

~~~
aidos
I went to a talk last week by Robin carhart-harris who does deep research in
this area. The talk itself was pretty complicated but he was saying (I think!)
that they believe these drugs cause the brain to go into a state where it
becomes more susceptible to change. The same thing happens under extreme
stress / trauma. The context of the experience itself then determines how
that’s encoded. It’s like it opens the brain up to change.

~~~
09bjb
Yes. I've done a lot of reading on the subject trying to explain and begin to
understand how the incredibly positive changes I've experienced come
about...and "reverse PTSD" seems remarkably close. A guided, safe psychedelic
session is similar in that it's a one-time, extremely powerful event that
causes a lasting change in the brain--except in this case it's positive and
intentional* whereas PTSD is negative and wasn't sought out.

* There seems to be a large degree of choice in which changes one wants to take away from the experience but this is a highly subjective, personal conclusion.

------
krambs
I've only done mushrooms once, and I've never wanted a cigarette more in my
life than during that experience.

~~~
mikelyons
Why is that? What was causing the craving? Can you elaborate? I've heard that
alcohol and cocaine cause this.

IME mushrooms cause any low-consciousness activities like
smoking/drinking/mindless partying to seem repulsive.

~~~
QualityReboot
Repulsive is absolutely the right word for this effect.

Edit for one more thought on this: it also gave me an appreciation for vegans
and vegetarians. I was eating chicken while tripping once and really had some
inner conflict over if it was ok to eat another animal. I'll never be a
vegetarian, but for a brief moment I understood what all my hippie friends are
on about :)

------
devmunchies
I've been learning more about these psychedelics and they seem to have good
medical benefits but if anyone is looking for a psychedelic or spiritual
breakthrough, similar breakthroughs have been achieved through things like
kundalini yoga. Its the same as weight training vs steroids, but of course you
can do both. You might not be ready or even know how to process your
experience if you just take a drug. (I'm not talking about for medical
purposes)

~~~
magic_beans
Kundalini awakenings can be just as harmful (if not MORE) as psychedelics
awakenings without proper integration work. It always helps to work with a
teacher or guide when traveling through a shadowy psyche.

~~~
TaylorAlexander
Not disagreeing but clarifying that the big psychedelic medical studies also
rely on integration work as it dramatically increases the value of the
treatment. This I am paraphrasing from what I have learned from the
Psychonauts podcast.

------
potatofarmer45
If the active ingredient really temporarily "rewires" the brain such that
multiple "rewires" can help break dependency, it should be tested with video
game addiction. I know many people I grew up with who have a WoW addiction
that is highly detrimental to their lives.

~~~
acollins1331
I just started playing WoW classic. People always ask me how I like it, seeing
as I never played WoW before. I would describe it as not very fun, but
incredibly addicting. I'd continue to elaborate but I have to go do some
leatherworking...

~~~
easymodex
Oh god I fell into the trap as well. I hardly played games in the past few
years and strictly single player ones which aren't infinite time sinks. Then
WoW classic came and I just wanted to chill out a bit and experience some
nostalgia. Now I'm hooked again, doing about 3 hours a day while also juggling
work, family life etc.

BTW, the fun starts when they introduce PvP honor and battlegrounds. Other
than that it's a true grindfest.

As for the OP topic, shrooms are great, got me out of depression during my
late teens. No preparation or anything, just took some with friends and
embraced it with positive curiousity.

------
foobar_
From what I can say from experience - Psychedelics make you aware of the
internal sensation of the body a lot. So smoking actually gives you a negative
feeling as opposed to the usual feeling. This negative reinforcement is really
useful for kicking the habit.

Same with alcohol or even meat products in particular. You can feel becoming
stupid eating those. I think microdosing for 30 days is an effective way of
kicking off habits or forming new healthy habits.

------
Fnoord
My own (anecdotal) experience with magic mushrooms underlines this. When I
used magic mushrooms I was still a smoker. While on magic mushrooms, I felt
much less need to smoke, and when I did it tasted less good. FWIW, artificial
sweetened candy also tasted horrible. Also, Zyban (Bupropion) had a similar
effect on me regarding smoking cessation aid.

------
tfinster
A legal and safe psychedelic retreat center in the Netherlands is
[https://synthesisretreat.com/](https://synthesisretreat.com/)

They have experienced guides/facilitators who can help in case someone is
having a challenging experience while on psilocybin, and they have medical
staff on premise if anyone needs it. The one caveat to note is that even
though I'd say the retreat center is 90% secular/scientific, there's still a
10% remnant of non-scientific woo such as "shamanism" and "energy flows" and
"cosmic surgery" that might be a turn off for the atheistic scientist crowd.
Worth taking a peek though.

(And to second the warnings: please read Michael Pollan's How to Change Your
Mind first, and be extremely careful if there's any history of schizophrenia
in your family before trying any psychedelic)

~~~
Smithalicious
You might call the shamanic aspect of it "non-scientific woo" but it's
important to distinguish between "based on objective reality" and "actually
improves your life" here. Many beliefs are one but not the other; in fact, I
don't think they're that strongly correlated.

Of course, you can't easily alter your own beliefs, so if you have a lot of
trouble suspending your disbelief for these things it might still be a turn
off for you. But some such things can be useful to "believe" even if you do
not think they reflect objective reality.

------
_lacroix
Makes perfect sense to me. I used IV ketamine infusions to treat anxiety and
OCD. The effects I felt are very similar to what the patient in the article
(and many other commenters on this post) describes; it's like my brain rewired
itself in a way that allowed me to break out of negative patterns. I was
suddenly able to consciously tell my brain to stop when I could feel myself
going into a familiar anxiety spiral - and it WORKED. I had a sense of clarity
about myself and my life that I had never experienced before. As a bonus, I
went from being a frequent binge drinker to having literally zero desire to
drink at all. It's not like waking up with a hangover and never wanting to
drink again; I feel like I did as a child before I'd ever tried it at all and
wasn't capable of craving the feeling of being drunk.

------
phillc73
A similar story, with a sample size of one - me. Smoking marijuana helped me
quit smoking cigarettes.

One of the reasonably well known side effects of smoking pot is sometimes a
feeling of intense paranoia. Well, over a period of a few months, I was
regularly smoking pot in the evenings and convinced myself that smoking
cigarettes would kill me and while stoned I was able to exaggerate these
feelings to the point of paranoia (I was thinking very, very hard.
Overthinking, another well known side effect).

Subsequently, even during the day when I wasn't high, I could still "feel"
that paranoia whenever I lit up a cigarette.

It took maybe 2-3 months, but eventually I stopped smoking cigarettes all
together, and even now almost 20 years later, just one drag starts to make me
feel sick.

Of course, then I had a pot smoking problem, but that's a different story,
which required a different solution.

~~~
npo9
How did you quit heavy cannabis usage?

~~~
phillc73
I moved to another country where I didn't have the same network of friends and
contacts. Basically, changed my environment and was busy setting up a new
life.

I didn't move to another country to give up cannabis, it was just a happy co-
incidence.

------
anonymouswacker
Using Magic Mushrooms and Ayahuasca both made me more in touch with my body,
and pushed me to take care of myself more. I noticed, while on Ayahuasca, that
much of my anxiety was due to physical pain (or vice versa!), and that self-
medicating with alcohol & tobacco were ultimately causing me more pain and
dependence.

I was addicted to smoking, but not addicted to alcohol. Now, trying either
leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Although, for health reasons, ironically, I am
trying to pick up drinking Pinot Noir on occasion!

------
MichaelApproved
> _New research shows that psilocybin might be an effective treatment for
> diseases such as depression and addiction. While the work is still in its
> early stages, there are signs that psilocybin might help addicts shake the
> habit by causing the brain to talk with itself in different ways._

Interesting to see it might also help with depression because antidepressants
are sometime prescribed to help quit smoking.

~~~
Piezoid
Depression can be seen as protection mechanism that reinforce rigid thought
patterns in order to avoid runaway (psychosis, mania). So anything tiping the
balance in the other direction allows to deprogram those behaviors.

This is related to the "entropic brain" theory, see
[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.0002...](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00020/full)

------
icandoit
I think psilocybin (or patentable tweaks) has a future in medicine. Finally,
pharmaceutical ads I wouldn't mind. ;)

Psilocybin Lead to (permanent) Increases in the Personality Domain of
Openness.

1\.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/)

------
cat199
good news, but:

where is the control group for 'going into a special place with the
expectation of a spiritual/transformative experience and spending several
hours meditating on letting go of the problem'?

pretty sure that might also have a nonzero statistical success correlate.

~~~
tasty_freeze
I don't have a citation on hand, but I know one of the early psilocybin
experiments (of seminary students, so probably prone to spiritual response)
used niacin as the control compound. These were drug-naive test subjects so
having no response at all would have unblinded the experiment. Niacin, in
enough of a dose, causes tingling, flushing, and heart rate changes.

------
mikelyons
The culmination of many experiences with mushrooms over the last several years
has caused me to become completely sober from marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, and
soon I will likely go vegetarian.

It seems to help with my psychological and spiritual development and make me
more conscious, more purpose driven in life, and more aware of the
shadow/devil side of my selfish personality.

I've also had a few enlightenment experiences that vastly deepened my
understanding of what reality is and why we're here.

If anyone's curious; Elon Musk was right when he said:

"Love is the answer."

------
mikelyons
Addicts cannot give up their addictions without fundamentally growing as
people, raising their level of consciousness, and _boy_ will psychedelics help
you with that...!

------
Noos
This is the same fundamental dishonesty that pushed for marijuana
legalization: the idea that there are "medicinal uses" and the drug should be
legalized based on those, pushed by advocates of casual use. Medical use as a
trojan horse for recreational/casual.

I don't really think using a seriously psychoactive substance for smoking is
good at all; it is something that can be done by other means which involve
much less risk or even personality change

~~~
aaomidi
The risk is minimal while the risk of continued smoking isn't.

The stories of personality change or risks are so overly reported on you
forget that millions of people are using psychedelics daily without losing
their personality.

~~~
Noos
the personality change is touted here constantly as a benefit of using it, and
its promoted as a source for personal enlightenment. People here are talking
about undergoing personal epiphanies and transformations.

i don't think it's smart even granting their argument to have a drug with
powerful effects being used to solve problems. And this is assuming it
wouldn't also amplify and mental issues a person has or cause psychotic
breaks, etc.

~~~
aaomidi
It's not anyone's decision to tell someone what to do or not do in their life.

The argument about cost on society also doesn't hold up since we seem to be
fine with other "risky" behaviors. Such as extreme sports. Heck we actually
encourage it.

------
flycaliguy
I had one of the best mushroom trips of my life while smoking a cigar on the
roof of a downtown building. Never felt the need to touch one again, it was
that good.

------
tryitnow
This headline can give newbies the wrong impression. Mindset and environment
are just as important as the substance.

A a more accurate headline would be "Months of intensive therapy set the stage
for Magic Mushrooms to help smokers kick the habit"

I know people will see headlines like this, try to "cure" something with
psychedelics, end up getting themselves into some sort of trouble and then
blame the substances for their problems.

~~~
mikelyons
Doing meditation and other spiritual practices seriously seems to have a
potentiation effect on psychedelic outcome IME.

My later trips have been much deeper and more profound after lots of this type
of work.

------
avodonosov
Heroin helps from cough:

> ... Bayer marketed diacetylmorphine as an over-the-counter drug under the
> trademark name Heroin.[79] It was developed chiefly as a morphine substitute
> for cough suppressants that did not have morphine's addictive side-effects.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin)

~~~
ianjsikes
Are you... comparing psilocybin to heroin?

------
acdanger
I have a friend who participated in the JHU study. Unfortunately, he wasn't
able to quit smoking and is continuing his two-pack-a-day routine. From what I
gather though, 3+ years on, the majority of other participants in his study
have managed to quit entirely. Shame he wasn't able to do the same.

------
rpmisms
Currently quitting nicotine, planning to go back to pipe smoking only when I'm
"reset".

It's hugely psychological. I don't have the shakes or anything, but I'm
drowsy, unalert, and feel slow. I can definitely understand how a shroom trip
would "reset" my brain to a non-needy state.

~~~
mikelyons
Why are you planning to go back to pipe smoking?

~~~
rpmisms
Because it's very non-habit forming, and has a positive effect on my mental
well-being, as well as having been correlated to longer life.

I formed a vaping habit during a stressful period at work, which is much more
nicotine (a pipe gives you the amount of nicotine as about a quarter of a
cigarette, delivered over about a half hour), and I plan to go back to my
occasional enjoyment of a pipe at home, refraining from using vaping as a
coping mechanism.

------
ryanmarsh
The meme that quitting smoking is hard is manufactured to keep you smoking.
Imagine who might benefit from this.

If you want to stop smoking there's only one book you need, Allen Carr's Easy
Way To Stop Smoking.

~~~
mikelyons
Joel Spitzer recommends this book and his youtube channel on quitting smoking
is also fantastic.

------
imperio59
This is like saying "I had a problem with a small chimney fire so I poured ten
gallons of gasoline on it and now I don't have a chimney or a fire problem
anymore because everything burned down"

Seriously no. This is not science. Hallucinogenic drugs also make people
psychotic on occasion. Please don't take them, you'll be better off. Take the
word of someone who's worked with recovering acid addicts. This shit ruins
real lives.

~~~
rolltiide
> Hallucinogenic drugs also make people psychotic on occasion.

its like if prozac was a lab made compound where the anecdotes were that some
people experienced cognitive benefits and some people wanted to commit
suicide. except thats exactly what happened and instead of keeping this a
mystery with a few dismissive anecdotes from people with good experiences and
people with bad experiences, many trials were done and it came out with
warning labels for some people to objectively avoid it.

hallucinogenic drugs can be treated with the same standard.

------
clSTophEjUdRanu
These threads are always a trip. So many addicts in here.

------
blackflame
For people with addictive personalities often the best treatment is a
substitution with something addiction but less harmful

------
MichaelApproved
Time and Time again, we see how stupid the war on drugs had been for humanity.
Look at all the negatives:

\- Racist origins which disproportionately targeted minorities. It allowed
police and prosecutorial discretion to arrest more minorities and give them
longer sentences.

\- Stopped medical progress. Finally a flood of studies are showing us
mushrooms, marijuana, MDMA, acid, and more have positive medical uses.

\- Gave law enforcement massive budgets which are further inflated with asset
forfeiture. We see SWAT raids based on lies ruining lives and killing innocent
people.

\- Prevented people from relaxing with safer alternatives to alcohol.

The war on drugs needs to end.

 _No drug should be illegal._ Drugs are a health concern, not criminal.

Replace public funding of law enforcement with public finding of rehab and
other mental/physical healthcare services. It'll be cheaper and society would
be healthier.

~~~
elboru
I look forward for the US to decriminalize all drugs. I’m Mexican and I live
near the border, I’ve seen every day for the last 10 years how cartels gain
power with all the money sent from US consumers. That money and power has
corrupted not only police and politicians, but also some sectors of the
population, drugs and narcos used to be anathema to most people, now they are
part of our pop culture, thanks to news, TV series, movies and music.

~~~
MuffinFlavored
> I look forward for the US to decriminalize all drugs.

Is there evidence to prove that legal cocaine/meth/heroin being readily
available for citizens would be good for society?

~~~
zadkey
There is a difference between decriminalization vs making something readily
available. They are not the same thing.

Look at Portugal. They treated drugs as a social issue and are making great
progress.

[https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-
radic...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-
drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it)

[https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-
decriminalizatio...](https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-
decriminalization/)

~~~
MuffinFlavored
Am I wrong in feeling like comparing Portugal to the US is a bit different
because Portugal doesn't have many South American drug cartels looking to make
money/do business at such scale knocking at their borders?

~~~
cookieswumchorr
Portugal is within border-free EU and no so far away from Africa as well,
there is plenty of opportunity for cartels there.

------
avodonosov
Guillotine is very effective against headache...

~~~
mikelyons
Comments like this are effective against growing your understanding of
reality.

Unless I misunderstood and you were meaning to say that psychedelic
experiences can cause you to face your own death and have glimpses of
enlightenment, then yes, but the metaphor will be lost on most people.

~~~
avodonosov
You should ease up on mushrooms. To come up with such an interpretation...

I mean literally, guillotine heals headache 100%, but that's not a sufficient
reason to practice it.

The same with psychedelic mushrooms, even if they work against smoking, it's
not necceserily a sufficient reason to use them.

~~~
mikelyons
_How do you know_ that decapitation "heals" a headache? That sounds clever ...
you're not bad or wrong for this, it's extremely common and I am guilty of it
myself. But I'm pointing to the fact that you don't _know_ that.

 _" even if they work against smoking, it's not necceserily_ (sic) _a
sufficient reason to use them "_

This I can respect and agree with ^

~~~
avodonosov
I suppose the entity capable of perceiving headache stops to exist.

Of course noone can be 100% sure, the same as with existence if reality
outside of ones mind. We just suppose.

------
dpcan
What's far more terrifying about this practice is that it's a method of
reprogramming the way someone thinks. This is "Clockwork Orange" level
experimentation.

Imagine this being used in concentration camps or interrogations. Getting
people to a mental state where they have no choice but to confess or conform
because their minds will no longer let them "touch the cigarette".

This is very scary.

~~~
empath75
The CIA tried this with MK ULTRA. It doesn't actually work and they abandoned
it.

~~~
Smithalicious
Granted this did supposedly give us the Unabomber so there's reason to be
skeptical of such practices. Not to say that what these researchers are doing
is MKULTRA.

~~~
empath75
They didn't use psychedelics on the unabomber.

------
AllegedAlec
Technically speaking, smoking also helps smokers kick the habit, albeit over a
period of 40/50 years or so on average.

Good for that woman that this helped her, but, as the article said, it takes
you a few months and a whole lot of money to do this, as well as a host of
other factors. It's hardly a cure-all.

~~~
rocelot
I don't think the broader implication is that it's a cure-all, but there's
significant research being done that points to it being far more effective
than you may be giving it credit for. I'm at work and can't pull up sources
but there's a group at John's Hopkins as well as a number of others - Tim
Ferriss has a ton of links I believe, if you feel like looking into it.
Speaking anecdotally, I have a number of friends who make very compelling
arguments as to how remarkably transformative a single session (with the right
intention set and setting) can be to your broader outlook with regard to
addiction issues and depression. I wouldn't dismiss it outright or trivialize
it just yet.

~~~
AllegedAlec
> I wouldn't dismiss it outright or trivialize it just yet.

I wasn't planning to do that. However, I'm not going to be part of any initial
test-set either.

I will say, however, that I'm sceptical of the long-term prospects of this
technique vis-a-vis remission. Furthermore, I'm not a huge fan of solving
problems by taking strong psychotropic drugs.

