
How Silicon Valley is dealing with mental illness - pshaw
http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/10/technology/silicon-valley-depression-austen-heinz/index.html
======
taurath
People don't talk about having anxiety or depression in the office, or mood
changes. Its expected that you just hide it. Tech gives you more leeway to do
your own thing most of the time which I'm thankful for, but I can't call out
to work because I'm feeling extra anxious one day. I DO end up working at home
those days, rare as they are. The stigma that would be attached to me as a
"weak-willed" person that sometimes has anxiety issues would be devastating
for my career - people do not allow others leadership positions unless they
can demonstrate a steady hand. Simply the suggestion that you are facing
internal strife enough to mention it in the workplace can be a very large hit
to your perception as a solid worker.

Managers want consistency in the work output above all else frequently,
despite all of our emotional hardware. Simply admitting that you have good
days and bad days can sometimes feel like quite a feat.

~~~
whitegrape
Daily standups and a fear of being "caught" on those days where you maybe
spent the whole day getting around to doing something that would take you 30
minutes in the zone add to the stress. Standups become vague/dishonest to
further hide the issue. The truth is sometimes you just need to blow off the
whole day, maybe even a whole few days. A lot of devs actually understand
needing to take random days off here and there even without having underlying
issues. But it's hard to justify to managers taking those off, even if unpaid
(let alone a random week off after you've determined Monday morning you're
just not into it at all). I suspect a culture of open slack would make the
stressed out employees a lot less stressed out, but it probably isn't great
for the business. There was a startup that was hiring in the Seattle area a
few months ago that stated upfront they only sort of want you to work 20 hours
a week, very loose, I wonder how it's going.

This is even worse when you're recovering from burnout. If you reveal you
suffered from burnout and are still recovering, you're effectively admitting
your productive output is some percentage of what it used to be. Even if you
used to be above average, you're implying that you're probably below-average
now, and it'd make more economic sense to replace you or at least pay you much
less. (And I bet a lot of devs actually would probably give up half their
salary in exchange for only being expected to be around half the time, which
may be a good compromise.)

From the business owner side I sympathize with wanting to have a workforce
full of Carmacks. But realistically speaking, that's very hard to accomplish,
and there's something to be said for giving even us somewhat defective mortals
something constructive to do so long as we're not contributing negative value
that isn't based on pure economic utility.

~~~
sandworm101
>> Daily standups and a fear of being "caught" on those days ...

Standups are mental health minefields. They are a hack evolution of an
educational process best left out of the workplace. Law/med schools employ
such tactics to deliberately create stress. That has a place in education, but
to see it continue at a location where people work year after year is
disturbing.

Startups that use standups also often miss the physicality of what they ask.
They do not realize that they are disadvantaging people based on totally
irrelevant criteria. There is a reason that, throughout history, people have
sat down together to discuss important matters. Sitting is an equalizer.
Sitting removes the threat of immediate physical violence. Save the standup
confrontation junk for the courtrooms.

~~~
Negitivefrags
Do people actually take the standing part of the standup literally?

All the standups I've been in the majority of the people were actually sitting
down.

~~~
aedron
Absolutely, that's part of the point. The standup is supposed to be short,
standing up emphasizes this.

~~~
fapjacks
I find a lot of humour here in the "standup is supposed to be short, standing
up emphasizes this" as a kind of fradenscheude commentary on the typically
unhealthy office workplace environment of sitting down in front of a computer
screen all day. I have a stand-up desk and spend most of my day standing, and
I realize this is a luxury most people do not have, but I do find humour in
the implicit space in your comment about standing being a kind of chore.

~~~
fredrik-j
Yes, we're all simply unfit sloths, standing up is physically demanding and
that's why standups must be short. :)

Seriously though, my impression is that standing up encourages brevity in
other ways.

Standing implies that the meeting must be short because there apparently isn't
even time to sit down before you start. It really does save time when you do
not have to find a suitable and available conference room and let everyone
pick a chair.

Standing also makes subtle signals of loss of focus very visible. You easily
pick up on the small things, like when people start shifting their weight,
look at their phone, turn around to look at other things, etc. Things that
aren't as visible when sitting down.

There is also a implied invitation to walk away at any moment. You're already
standing, walking away requires little effort, at least physically.

------
grimmdude
I post a lot of dumb comments on HN, mostly because I find too many people
take things too seriously here. But anxiety is something that I can very much
relate to being a work from home developer. I'm still learning the best ways
to cope/treat, but I can't say enough about getting enough exercise. I
definitely don't do it enough now, but when I do there's an unmistakable
decrease in my anxiety level the following day. But I'm talking like running,
or something else that really gets me exhausted; not just a walk around the
block. I'm a skinny guy too, which for me is another excuse to not have to
exercise; which I think is not uncommon amongst developers.

~~~
such_a_casual
Not to start a flame war with you, but in the hope that maybe I can make this
panacea a little less popular I want to get something off my chest. Every time
someone has a problem with mental health, whether it's depression, anxiety,
drug withdrawal, etc the answer from the audience is always exercise.

I'm only one data point, but I've exercised more days of my life than not and
have observed absolutely no difference in mental health between the me that
exercises and the me that doesn't.

What about athletes: students-athletes, NBA players, olympians. Do they show a
significantly lower rate of mental health issues?

This argument has been floating around in my head for a while. The reason I
think this suggestion is harmful is because it is the most vocal and popular,
and yet excludes anyone who already exercises.

Who is recommending this? My hypothesis is people who only exercise every once
in a while and so they get a huge hit of endorphins and think, "Man if I did
this every day I would feel great." Maybe, some people with mental health
issues use exercise as an escape and are really recommending it for its
temporary relief. But I'm just in denial about the majority of people being
people who didn't exercise, were miserable/anxious/whatever, started
exercising and now they're happy/normal/perfect.

Again, I'm not trying to start any arguments here. For those of you who have
been saved by exercise, I'm envious. I would really just like to see more
answers than this instead of seeing it as the go to answer. It makes the
assumption that people who have mental health issues don't exercise.

~~~
bjwbell
What actually made a difference, for me, was changing my work. My dad
experienced this too. If you're depressed maybe you need to change your life,
this is hard. It was for me.

~~~
dytrivedi
Out of curiosity, what was the change that you made?

------
andrewvc
I've lost 2 people I know to suicide in tech. I've known others who've come
close. We need to do something about it. What, I don't know, but mainstream
psychiatry isn't that effective.

~~~
TTPrograms
Why do you claim that mainstream psychiatry is ineffective? How do we know
that people simply aren't taking advantage of mainstream psychiatry (to the
degree necessary)?

~~~
mysticlabs
A lot of people who commit suicide are typically on antidepressants and seeing
therapists. Yet they never report this in the media. Antidepressants even
carry a black box warning they can increase suicidal thinking.

Wouldn't surprise me if half the valley was on meds of some kind.

Psychiatry is mostly based on an unproven hypothesis of chemical imbalance in
the brain. Of which there's no actual scientific evidence to back up this
claim. In fact, studies have concluded antidepressants can cause imbalances
where nonexisted before, and can cause severe life threatening withdrawals if
you stop taking them suddenly.

Psychiatry is a pretty flawed practice in my opinion as well. I'm sure it
helps some people, but it also does a lot of harm as well.

~~~
gcr
Which studies?

I'd be interested in reading your references.

~~~
messick
Those are pretty much Scientology's talking points, so here's a reference for
you: [http://www.scientology.org/faq/scientology-in-society/why-
is...](http://www.scientology.org/faq/scientology-in-society/why-is-
scientology-opposed-to-psychiatric-abuses.html)

~~~
gcr
Oy. Are any of these references accepted by well-respected scientists in the
community?

~~~
DanBC
No, obviously not. But "don't just stop taking your meds" is on the patient
information leaflet for every ssri / snri / nasa / etc style anti-depressant
because suddenly stopping is significantly risky. (For some of them, eg
venlafaxine, it's pretty unpleasant too.)

------
BananaPelican
I wish that I could be more vulnerable with my coworkers. Last year I grappled
with intense impostor syndrome that ballooned into generalized anxiety and
depression, exacerbated heavily by the feeling that I couldn't let any sign of
weakness through. Eventually I reached a breaking point and had to say
something to my manager; fortunately he was understanding, but I still worry
that his confidence in me has been eroded. My breakthrough came when I was
given an important task. It seemed logically inconsistent for someone who was
hanging on by a thread and really not an effective employee (my self-
narrative) to be entrusted with a task that genuinely mattered.

I still feel weak for saying this, but hearing another person say, "It was
hard for me when I first joined this team too. Don't worry, you're doing a
good job." was all I wanted.

Is Silicon Valley unique in lacking this openness? I suspect not, but have no
basis of comparison.

~~~
Infinitesimus
I think it's up to us to begin to make that change in our work environments.
I've made it a point to be a bit more vocal with new devs whenever I can about
the reality of impostor syndrome and that it's 100% normal. Use your
experience as a way to guide new hires on your company and slowly, change will
come

------
20years
I may get down voted for this but I wonder if this is partly due to the false
hype that is associated with being a software developer in Silicon Valley.
Young kids with stars in their eyes go out there thinking they are going to
hit it big with their startup or working for a hot startup only to discover it
is not so easy.

It would be interesting to see stats of suicides or attempted suicides for
tech workers in Silicon Valley vs other areas. If much higher in SF to the
ratio of workers then that should be something to look at.

~~~
pmorici
When you get out of college and enter the work force it is also the first time
a lot of people will really see the world as it is instead of how they were
taught it was. That can be depressing.

------
MollyR
My cousin used to work there as startup developer. He attempted suicide due to
depression and loneliness. He was on SSRI's and Klonopin?. He had trouble with
relationships, and was isolated from family (all on the east coast). My uncle
brought him back, and our extended family has been taking care of him. He's
doing a lot better.

I don't mean to be an armchair psychiatrist, but I think loneliness and or
stress can exacerbate depression, and family or something like it can make a
world of difference.

~~~
Theodores
Yay! I like what your family are doing, that is fantastic. Keep up the good
work. Those pills cannot and will not ever be a substitute for what you guys
can do with the love that you are offering this cousin.

Hopefully it is not a one-way street, maybe through helping this wayward
cousin your wider family have seen this 'getting better' and found reward in
that, to be a happier family, even if there have been set-backs and
disappointments along the way.

------
Outdoorsman
Jobs in our industry are "intense"...

Speaking for myself, I chose this profession, years ago, because I loved
problem solving, absolutely loved it...

I also knew I was the type of person who needed a certain amount of time away
from other people, for long stretches of time, to "recharge" my social self...

Which means I am, at heart, an introvert...I need time away from people to be
at my best....my wife loves me for that...I can't explain why, but she
does...I married better than she did in my opinion...

Nevertheless, as our industry "speeds up" I wonder how many excellent "problem
solvers" will be pushed beyond their "mechanical limits"...?

~~~
askafriend
She probably loves you for that because she gets her own space too, to do
things that she likes without having to constantly always think about this
anchor of another person.

I'm horrified at the idea of being in a relationship where people don't get
their own space to pursue their own interests and grow/learn together but also
independently.

------
gerbilly
I myself now know that I self selected for software development _because_ of
my anxiety, and I think anxious people might be over-represented in the
profession.

As we all know programming is complicated, and even the simplest algorithm can
produce wildly unexpected results. Anxiety makes you better at detecting
danger, and in the realm of software the danger is bugs and bad interactions
and so on.

We all approach programming differently, there are some deliberative types,
some who wing it etc, but I expect that anxious people may be a big sub-
population.

(Also if someone is anxious, it doesn't necessarily mean they are socially
anxious or shy. I myself seem 'normal' and can be gregarious and give talks,
but I do have trait anxiety.)

------
goodJobWalrus
It seems to me that suicide in tech is talked about a lot (more than in any
other profession, except for maybe armed forces), but I have never seen data
that it is any more common than in other professions. Can anyone point to some
actual data on that?

~~~
awqrre
I've heard that the more that you talk about it, the more it is likely to
happen...

~~~
tedks
This is getting downvoted, but it is in fact true. Copycat suicides are a very
real phenomenon. In general, anything that heightens the mental availability
of an action (how easy it is to recall) increases the probability of that
action occurring. This causes news reports on suicides to increase incidence
of suicide, news reports on mass shootings to increase incidence of mass
shootings, and last but certainly not least controversially, violent actions
in video games to be causally related to (though neither necessary, nor
sufficient for) increases in violent behavior.

This is a basic fact of human neurology that many people have trouble
accepting because of the illusion of free will they like to indulge in.

~~~
jonesb6
I believe you were down-voted because you made a somewhat bold claim without
providing evidence. The idea that mass-shooting copycats === suicide copycats
is extreme, because they are two very different phenomenas.

Do you have anything that could back it up?

------
mettamage
Perhaps this link is slightly relevant. I just received it last night through
an IFTTT alert.

exercise + meditation one hour for two days per week --> 40% reduction in
symptoms of major depressive disorder.

To me the results sound a bit too staggering but the most interesting idea is
that the researchers believe that exercise + meditation have an additive
effect. So meditation or exercise alone is less effective than doing
meditation first (breathing meditation, they didn't body scan) and then
exercise right after it (running). In my humble opinion, that's an idea worth
considering and that's an idea worth implementing in the company's culture.
Provided that this study replicates well and is actually true ;)

[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160210134834.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160210134834.htm)

Sam Altman suggested in Startup School to "fix it" (w.r.t. burnout) because
when doing a startup you don't have the luxury of taking time off. This is a
way of how to fix it, and if you don't have the luxury to take an hour off to
boost productivity, then there's an uneven trade going on (more hours working
for less productivity). It's not a silver bullet unfortunately, but then again
what is?

~~~
thephyber
I always find it curious to treat "exercise" as a boolean.

I have played basketball, football, ran cross country, multiple events in
track & field, jogged, lifted weights, snowboarded, played ultimate frisbee,
and done daily situps by the hundreds (a la American Psycho).

They all have a different affect on your body and they require differing
amounts of preparation and concentration. I don't think all forms of exercise
are considered equal and I suspect that different kinds of exercises would
likely yield different results.

Notice that many of the examples of exercise I used are team sports and others
are individual activities. I don't think this distinction can be ignored.
Also, having concrete goals for exercise gives a person a different level of
motivation than just a vague "allot X minutes in my schedule for some sort of
exercise".

The idea of the combination of exercise + meditation is interesting. I feel
like this would also lead to better sleep habits and more concentration and
self-regulation of your schedule, which are both beneficial in their own ways.

~~~
mettamage
Good points. In addition to team vs. alone the other distinction could be
aerobic vs. non-aerobic (emphasis on heart/cardiovascular system vs. emphasis
on muscles).

------
eruditely
A mental illness that is actually dealt with perfectly with the line of
medications on the shelves is ADHD, in which you get symptomatic remission as
long as it's in your bloodstream.

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3568402/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3568402/)

It's not only severe, but will pretty much screw you up(not being able to
perceive time and act on time across long distances and all), but hey it
works!

Nothing else works as well as what's available for ADHD for other mental
disorders.

[http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/289931.php](http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/289931.php)
<\-- Showing that adhd doubles your mortality rate compared to the general
population. Here is the abstract

[http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67...](http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(14\)61684-6/fulltext)

~~~
unimpressive
>It's not only severe, but will pretty much screw you up(not being able to
perceive time and act on time across long distances and all), but hey it
works!

The medication, or the disorder? Because that's a pretty succinct description
of ADHD.

~~~
eruditely
The disorder.

------
orionblastar
I was doing alright until from the stress I developed schizoaffective
disorder. I ended up on disability. Once people know you are mentally ill they
don't want you around as an employee and find reasons to get rid of you. HR
finds out when a doctor diagnoses you and you get psyche medicine on your
health insurance. Then you are seen as a liability. So a lot of people don't
seek help for fear they might get fired and not be able to work again.

This has to change in the industry so that mentally ill people get help and
support so they can keep their jobs and contribute to the company.

When companies think about disabilities they think about people in
wheelchairs, the deaf, the blind but not the mentally ill who have a hidden
disability and still need support and accommodation.

~~~
nradov
I find it hard to believe that your health insurer informed your employer
about a prescribed medication. That would be a serious violation of federal
law and most insurers are careful about compliance. More likely your employer
found out some other way, or fired you for a different reason.

~~~
orionblastar
Maybe they found out another way? When I got sick I filed for short-term
disability in June 2001. I had doctor's excuse notes, and one of them was from
a psychiatrist. I returned in November 2001 and was fired after being back on
the job for two weeks. They claimed to have lost my doctor's notes and claimed
I did stuff at work during the days I missed. When it went to unemployment the
state sided with me as their days conflicted what they claimed, including I
was in a hospital for some of the days they claimed I did stuff at work.
Someone visited me at the hospital and asked me questions and wrote things
down about me. I never knew who they represented. They might have found out by
that way.

Anyway since they had the conflicts in the dates, I should have filed a suit
with the EEOC. But somehow they knew I was mentally ill and tried to get rid
of me because of it. At work I had an episode where I heard two airplanes
crashing into the building, so people knew I was hearing things. That could
have tipped them off as well.

------
lettergram
There's a good book/presentation by Greg Baugues I saw a while back about
developers and depression. Essentially, it's about how he had a lot of issues,
how he dealt with it, and how we as a whole culture need to help improve
repport about mental health.

[https://vimeo.com/72690223](https://vimeo.com/72690223)

------
gizi
Many things can help you to overcome feelings of depression. It is not an
issue impossible to address. However, what certainly contributes to it, is
social isolation. Therefore, the rampant individualization of western/urban
society badly exacerbates the problem. Nowadays, many people do not even have
something like a wife or a husband. Gone are the days when people would share
their lives with someone special to them. They are too immersed in hardcore
individualism for that. Another issue contributing to the problem is the lack
of spirituality. People often underestimate the therapeutic value of things
like religion. Growing levels of atheism and skepticism concerning the meaning
of life take away this resource and in that way prematurely terminate lives
otherwise worthwhile to live. Medication can obviously do its part to assist
with depression, but not on top of the ruins created by hardcore
individualization and totalitarian de-spiritualization.

------
sarciszewski
Warning: Autoplay video.

~~~
chillwaves
You da real MVP

------
timwaagh
I suppose they don't. but its still much better to dislike your life and be
rich than to dislike your life and be poor. after all one can always get
treatment after getting rich and retiring.

------
tbrock
Oh my gosh, Austen was in my class in college. I didn't know he had passed
away until reading this article.

------
Theodores
I would like to invite some hackers out there to apply the 'hacker approach'
of problem solving to the task of helping others that have depression. Please
do so out of your own self interest (rather than pity, charity, guilt or
social obligation).

At time of writing I only have two people that I go out of my way to 'level
the playing field' for. This costs me time and money, real time and real
money. For one of my 'clients' I have taken time off work to help them find a
proper roof over their head and I covered a few bills to make sure that worked
out (things like furniture and food in the cupboards had to be magically paid
for). Notionally they are expected to do some work in my sister's allotment
when the weather gets better to repay the favour. Obviously I won't hold them
to that, this was just a creative device to move things along a bit without
there being any feelings of pride getting hurt. Importantly I don't pass on
silly advice, e.g. 'you should get a job...' blah, blah.

In this example, why bother??? I could have bought myself toys, or I could
have gone on a really exciting city break given the time + money outlay.

Well, to answer that question, yesterday, this mystery 'client' of mine sent
me through some jobs that they really wanted to go for. I was hoping that
might happen in about 3 months time, no pressure though. But yes, I was
delighted that, out of the blue, they should send this stuff through to me. We
don't normally talk work, I assumed it was not what they were ready for.

I would describe my approach as fairly hands off, we text/message most days
but not all. We do things together about once a week - meals, cinema, gigs,
galleries and all those normal things that normal people do as well as just
hang out in the reasonably appointed flat.

At the moment I am on a bit of a winning streak with this mystery 'client'.
Health has been restored, which to me is quite a miracle, something I did not
expect to see. Mystery 'client' also has friends and other social invites out,
again quite miraculous given the 'no mates' start.

My 'clients' can be from any walk of life, any age, any gender. I mentor
difficult teenagers too, one at a time, with work placement stuff. I am truly
stoked with the success I have had on that front, the last two have been no-
hopers, total worries to their respective mums. One of them is now at Oxford
University, the other at Imperial College. I played a little part in that,
helping them become sons their mums are truly proud of. I would say the
process was 'osmosis' with no expectation of such stellar results.

Furry animals and elderly neighbours are also on the books from time to time.
I am proud of all of them.

Sure I choose carefully, I do not reach out to those with alcohol dependency
problems (I have tried though...). However, both of my current 'clients' would
possibly be actually homeless without my on-going help.

So, for anyone reading this, please do reach out to others, even if it costs
real time and money with no promise of results. Just imagine what the world
would be like if everyone able to do so did go the extra mile to help out a
couple of others with depression related problems. Imagine how inspiring the
world could be.

------
donretag
I find this article ironic since every time I visit San Francisco, I see loads
of homeless people, many with mental illness, on the streets. I guess Silicon
Valley only cares when it is their own.

~~~
dang
"Only" is a bit uncharitable. The one doesn't exclude the other.

------
hackercomplex
I'll tell you an open secret: Focusing very intently on difficult maths for an
extended period of time can make almost anyone begin to experience aspects of
mental illness.

The physics community has dealt with this, DOD code breakers deal with it, the
manhattan project, etc. It's a well studied phenomena because of how it
related to the war effort and much of the research documentation is
declassified, in the public domain, and is a matter of the historical record.

My point is software development is just another domain where this research
applies. This information is generally recognized by the pop culture as
evidenced by the fact that there are several blockbuster movies about it, for
example the film 'Pi' by Darren Aronofsky and 'A beautiful mind'. However this
phenomena is generally not accepted by the startup community. I assume that
the reason for this is because recognizing it could theoretically lead to a
rise in insurance cases by engineers who developed serious mental illness over
time due to prolonged exposure to what were known to be unsafe working
conditions. In my opinion it should be thought of as a high risk job akin to
scuba instructor, or roofer.

So the whole thing is swept under the rug. Never the less I will give my
recommendations as a developer who works all the time and has wrestled with
this phenomena in the past:

\- Force yourself to hike/walk/bike outdoors for at least an hour per day. I'm
convinced that merely jogging on a tread mill or gym excercise does not have
the same benefit. Think of the outdoors (and the sun) as a relief valve for
the "cabin fever" effect.

\- A daily Zazen practice (15 minutes+) This is the kind of meditation from
Japanese buddhism where you're not trying to accomplish or "do" anything, you
just sit, in a good posture. I think of this as putting your overclocked CPU
in hibernate mode long enough for the heat sync to do it's thing. I think this
can provide a similar effect to having had a couple extra good hours of sleep,
and all it costs is a few minutes of your day. The more you practice it, the
better it works.

\- healthy diet and exercise

\- yoga (or just plain stretching)

\- Do not under-estimate prolonged caffeine consumption as a likely co-factor
for many symptoms. Always eliminate this as a possibility whenever you can

\- As a relaxation excercise take a break during your day and spend a few
minutes in a quiet place directing your attention to any area of your back,
neck, shoulders, or even your face whereever you expereince a sensation of
pressure or weight. Sometimes just stopping to pay attention that these muscle
groups are becoming tense is enough to help them relax some.

\- super mellow music at a low volume even if it's not what you prefer
generally can help when writing software. Classical music, downtempo, ambient,
chill-out, atomospheric drum and bass, even unusual stuff like gregorian
chant. It can be slow and boring, after all it's less about entertainment and
more about the cumulative effect it has on your brain when used as background
music.

example of downtempo genre:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYdebVcZDPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYdebVcZDPw)

soma.fm/groovesalad plays a good mix imho. There's good studies on this on
mice. A good rule of thumb is asking yourself this question "could this song
be characterized as 'intense' in any way ?" if so then save it for some other
activity

------
lr4444lr
... Let me guess, by moving those afflicted into management? As for the
founders, isn't it expected to some degree?

------
aswanson
A lot of it comes down to exercise and diet. Skipping breakfast after a night
of drinking can lead to a low level of blood sugar; this gets worse as we age
and has the effect of depression. You have to closely monitor your blood sugar
level, even if you have never been diagnosed as having any psychiatric
precondition.

~~~
gizi
Besides diet and exercise, there is also the issue of social hygiene. Many
people have become hardcore individualists. They do not even have a husband or
a wife, let alone have meaningful interactions with other family members. You
see, regular sex is not just a way of having fun. It is also something that
contributes to your mental well being and assists in keeping you out of
depressions and other mental issues. The same holds true for meaning-seeking
spirituality such as in religion and meditation. It is one of the things that
helps keeping you mentally healthy. For hardcore individualists and anti-
spiritualists is their entire lifestyle that is in question.

~~~
xxpor
So not being married is a sign of being mentally ill?

~~~
humanrebar
I think the point was that regular sex is good for mental health.

------
jorgecurio
hey guys I hope to offer some words of comfort.

The delusion is that life is infinite. It is not.

Especially so when we are young. As we get older, we feel like we are running
out of time, we haven't done enough.

This is why I think some people commit suicide when their startups dont take
off. They can't accept a reality that everything they are doing is ephemeral.

So when your startup fails, or some software you worked on for 4 years without
any pay goes to shit because you couldn't get enough customers, brush this
shit off because life and universe is ephemeral and even more so ephmeral are
the failures to meet your own expectations and others. So what? Failing at
startup isn't a fucking crime? There's no Russian mob coming to reclaim the
"equity" that you owe them. Similarly if you succeed, the world just goes on.
You might get cover, you might serve as inspiration, you will have changed
your life and everything money can buy. But I think that in the end, if you
think about it, money is important but not the entirety of our human
existence.

At age 29, having boostrapped to failure for the past 6 years, I'm no longer
hung up about it. Now this might sound like the fox claiming that the grape is
sour because he can't reach it, but money, a single fixation on success or a
particular product that you built (and you fall in love with your own
creation), is unhealthy and frankly a waste of pure fucking energy.

This is why I've given up on chasing one idea or marrying myself to one goal.
I'm also slowly turning my back away from bootstrapping and focusing on how I
can raise money. The only painful realization is that I could've done 6 years
of work in just 6 months with 6 engineers. Now that I've done the entire shit
myself from the ground up, I have a pretty fucking good idea how to build
something from scratch and turn it into a product. Startup is not a one man
game, it's really coming together, sharing the pain and growing as individuals
and as a group. Success should be the goal but I believe the process is
equally important in getting to that goal. I may not ever reach it and that's
fine. What's important is that I've tried the best I absolutely can and being
proud of what I've built. That's all you can do and just walk away and keep
going.

And don't get caught up with trends, noise, techcrunch and other non-essential
activities that adds to the anxiety. Just do you.

Remember that life is ephemeral. Suicide is a permanent approach at a
temporary problem! This failure, the stress, the depression, the mania, all
this, even the lack of money...all of this is just temporary. Nothing lasts
forever.

------
PragmaticPulp
The comments here are a great example of why mental health treatment is such a
difficult problem for the tech crowd: Most of the comments are from people who
believe they have a better handle a mental health diagnosis and treatment than
actual psychiatrists, and many of them are quite wrong. Some of them
dangerously so.

Depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, ADHD, and other mental health issues
are extremely complex issues that can't be universally explained away by blood
sugar or lack of spouses or loneliness as some of commenters here confidently
claim. Every case is different, every person has their own complex set of
issues and maladaptive coping behaviors and external stressors, and everyone
responds to medications and lifestyle changes differently. Perhaps more
importantly, navigating all of those individual variations is best left to a
close patient-doctor relationship, leveraging each patients' feedback against
the doctor's years of clinical experience.

The mistake many people make is trying to map others' mental health disorders
on to their own prior experiences. That's why you see so many comments from
people confidently declaring that curing depression is as simple as exercising
because they felt sad a few years ago but felt better when they started
running. That's great, and exercise is likely to help everyone, but that
doesn't mean that another person's depression is simply a lack of exercise.
Don't ever discount or downplay another person's mental health suffering,
because that's only going to make things harder for them. Mental health
sufferers often feel significant guilt about their symptoms, and having
someone dismiss or downplay their suffering only compounds that.

Modern psychiatry isn't perfect and has plenty of room for improvement, but
frankly it's a whole lot better than the comments here make it out to be. If
you're struggling with mental health issues, make it a priority to see a
professional. Get a second or third opinion if you're not happy with your
treatment. But whatever you do, don't get sucked in to the misinformed
internet commenters trying to discourage people from seeking treatment.
Psychiatry can take some time, but the area under the curve of even marginal
mental health improvements can add up to a huge difference over the course of
your life.

~~~
bcarlyle
I'm a clinical psychologist who was in charge of the largest randomized
controlled trial of online cognitive behavioral therapy for depression
(n=500).

There is nothing that annoys me more then the every person is a special
snowflake argument for why we can't use standardized treatment for mental
health problem.

Exercise works really well for curing depression. I talked to a depressed
patient yesterday who had no idea what he could do to combat his depression. I
finally convinced him that if he couldn't think of anything else to do he
should just try going for a walk and he told me later that it really helped.

I've had that exact conversation a hundred times.

Almost all patients I meet have the faulty belief that they are special. That
they function in a way that is different from others and that often make them
resist treatment.

Your head is connected to your physical body and therefore we can figure out
what helps for everyone in the same way a doctor knows what to do about a
broken foot.

Did you know that almost half off patients who suffer from anxiety take too
shallow breaths and this creates respiratory alkalosis that creates a lot of
the anxiety symptoms.

Did you know that by breathing calmly you will cure yourself from panic
attacks? Forever.

Did you know that psychologists know how to cure insomnia in a single session?

The biggest hurdle to overcome is the idea that there exists a magic barrier
where your disorder goes from being something that you can cure yourself to
something you need a professional for. The barrier is an illusion.

You always have the power to change your mood for the better.

I'm not saying that therapy isn't useful. It is extremely useful and helps
people tremendously.

I'm saying that every single individual can make a conscious effort to focus
on improving their mental health irregardless of the fact that they are seeing
a therapist.

Also. Almost every single person is illiterate about how to treat mental
health problems.

I've been a fairly happy person all my life and I believe I owe it to the fact
that I developed excellent coping mechanisms.

If you haven't got those you need to learn them. Once you have them it gets
much easier to have good mental health.

I'm actually working on building free online treatment for depression right
now. It is a work in progress but if anyone is interested they can check it
out here.

[https://getpsychologistsnow.com/cbt/depression/](https://getpsychologistsnow.com/cbt/depression/)

~~~
alanctgardner3
> I'm a clinical psychologist who was in charge of the largest randomized
> controlled trial of online cognitive behavioral therapy for depression
> (n=500).

Peer-reviewed study, please?

> every person is a special snowflake argument

Right off the bat, you sound like a condescending asshole. I would never go to
more than one session with you if this is how you treat patients.

> Exercise works really well for curing depression.

You really think you _cured_ someone's depression by telling them to take a
walk sometimes? Granted, I find strenuous exercise is really helpful, but
there are also days where you cannot will yourself out of bed to go to the
gym. Having some asshole psychologist tell you that it's your fault just makes
things worse.

> Did you know that by breathing calmly you will cure yourself from panic
> attacks? Forever.

Yeah, tell this to my girlfriend, who gets _more_ anxious when she's trying to
take deep breaths.

> I've been a fairly happy person all my life

Because you never experienced significant trauma, you don't have an imbalance
of chemicals in your brain, basically you just won the goddamn lottery. Do you
take advice from people who win the Powerball about how to get rich?

> I'm actually working on building free online treatment for depression right
> now

This sounds really admirable. Looking at the website, it's so cluttered and
confusing I don't think anyone could benefit from it. And it seems like you're
recommending that people contact you over Telegram? Like anyone? Just your
formal patients? This is a giant ethical and HIPAA minefield, offering
professional medical services via text message.

~~~
dang
I understand why you feel strongly in response to that comment, but please
don't cross into personal attack.

------
trafficjam30125
It's disgusting and inconsistent that Y Combinator is claiming to be taking a
stand against this when it sends people like Buchheit out to attack one of our
most talented people, just because Paul Graham doesn't like what he says
occasionally.

~~~
cpncrunch
What are you referring to?

~~~
coddingtonbear
I'm supposing he's referring to the public dispute Paul Graham and Michael
Church have been having for some time.

~~~
dang
There's no such 'dispute'. It's 100% imaginary.

~~~
consz
Is this why michaelochurch account hasn't been posting as much lately? I
always thought that was the most interesting user that posted here, why push
him away?

~~~
dang
We banned michaelochurch because of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10017538](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10017538)
after a long history of abusing this site and countless requests to stop.
Since then he's made up all kinds of things, such as the comment upthread.

