
A French Novelist Imagined Sexual Dystopia. Now It’s Arrived - Melchizedek
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/books/review/michael-houellebecqs-sexual-distopia.html
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mcv
The problem with incels is not the lack of sex, it's the belief that they need
to have sex, and that women owe them sex. It's a problem of entitlement, not
of sexual revolution.

Well, maybe a bit of sexual revolution: in particular, of the idea that you're
a loser if you're not having sex. That is a stupid notion that society needs
to get rid of. There are tons of people who aren't having sex. I didn't have
any sex until I was over 30, and I'm pretty sure some of my friends are even
later.

If you're really desperate to just have sex, find someone else who also just
wants sex to have sex with. Visit a prostitute if you must (but check if she's
legal and voluntary, and not forced into it; there's sadly a lot of human
trafficking, slavery and other crime in prostitution, depending on where you
live).

And if what you really want is a fulfilling relationship, then become a better
person who is a safe and interesting person to have a relationship with. There
are plenty of people of the opposite (or same, depending on your preference)
who are also looking for a relationship, but they're not going to date an
entitled creep who doesn't respect them. You really don't have to look like
Brad Pitt, just being a decent person is enough. Respect people and they will
respect you. But see women as sex vending machines and you're not going to get
any.

~~~
HappySweeney
From what I understand, inability get laid is not the issue. The problem is
that these guys believe/know they are top quality in everything except
appearance. Therefore they deserve top quality women, which to them means
physically attractive. As these women are not falling over themselves to get
with the incel, there must be something wrong with society. So, they rage at
society for brainwashing their women to fuck the Chads (their word for men
that successfully date the attractive women - which they call Stacy).

To me, the whole thing just looks like narcissism.

~~~
Communitivity
Agreed on all points. For me the most telling part is 'these guys believe/know
they are top quality in everything except appearance. Therefore they deserve
top quality women, which to them means physically attractive.'

That's how I might justify getting the best laptop bought for me at work..it's
how you justify getting a possession. Women are not possessions, and that is a
concept incels just don't seem to get.

The other thing that punches my buttons is that some self-styled incels use
bad looks as an excuse, a reason why they cannot get a partner. For many women
attractiveness is based on some combination of confidence, success, and how
central to your current reality you treat the woman. That's according to a
number of studies and based on my personal experience, so YMMV. Looks are a
distant factor behind those mentioned above. There are women who are the
exception and place looks above everything else as an initial discriminator,
but that's true for men too. I think they are in the minority, and I think
I've seen studies before that agree, but I don't have the study references at
the moment to back that up.

~~~
mcv
Anyone who believes they are "top quality" and therefore deserves "top
quality" women, is not in any way top quality. That possessiveness and
entitlement does not make them good people, it makes them creeps. And most
women don't want to date creeps.

I don't pretend to know what women want (I suspect they all want something
different), but my impression is that "no creeps" tends to be pretty high on
the list of requirements for many women.

The solution for the incels here is to learn to recognise their own creepy
behaviour and to stop doing that, and start treating women as real people.

~~~
HappySweeney
From my experience, they believe the difference between creepy or not is
simply how good-looking the guy is.

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tuesdayrain
I was an incel for a long time. I wasn't mad at anyone for not being attracted
to me, just upset with myself for having some genetic conditions that are not
yet curable. I think a lot of people in my position would be almost completely
satisfied with legalized prostitution. Some romantic female contact, even if
it's done purely as a financial transaction, can really change people's lives
for the better.

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hnuser355
I feel like people are so extra about sex. I had more sex than I probably need
to in my lifetime when I was younger and I’m not sure there was a point.
Sex->restaurant->sex->work just makes you fat and unhappy. Now my life is not
that stable and I work all the time so I don’t want to find a partner if I
don’t think I’ll be a good one. Also not interested in dating or having sex
with randoms or friends. So I guess there we have it. I wish incel guys would
just focus on having a fulfilling life and learning to socialize normally and
then they’d probably get a girlfriend anyway.

~~~
rc_hadoken
Just curious...are you female or would you consider yourself extroverted?

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hnuser355
No & yes. But I feel like a lot of guys confuse extroversion with being
“alpha” or successful or whatever when in reality you can just be socially
normal and not have such weird hangups.

~~~
rc_hadoken
I see well I learned by reading and a lot of trial and error not innate
socialization. Extroversion means you get what's going on with social games
and you care enough to play them. Also, you are energized by socializing with
others. I get the games...mostly but most of the time I avoid playing them
(stay quiet) or I simply am not present to be a participant. So when you say
"hang up" us non-extroverts think (and im trying not to speak for everyone
here) "Sure, but I bet you can't be alone by default." Typing this in a slight
rush so not sure if my point comes across.

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squozzer
I think some of what hampers young guys love lives is the assumption that only
"perfect" \- in situations as well as looks - girls are worth dating.

Generally, "peer" women - that is, women of the same age and social standing -
are "sleeping up." Because they can.

That said, plenty of niches exist for the enterprising -

1) Single moms 2) Older women 3) Girls you knew in HS / college

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lourenchord
So basically inequality in any facet of life leads to dystopia (really winners
and losers at extremes), but I also think trying to force equality in every
facet of life will also lead to dystopia.

So what do we do when people have real grievances ? Is there any way for
technology to solve it ? Lately I don't see technology has solving our human
problems, but exacerbating them to incredibly dangerous levels.

We need to become post-humans.

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Something1234
We should all take a look at Shimoneta. It's a great concept of a world where
speech is restricted and knowledge dies out.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta)

