
Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug - mortenjorck
http://cdm.link/2019/02/apple-2018-glitch/
======
docker_up
Apple appears to be coming to some sort of head at this point. This is
speaking as someone heavily invested in Apple products and shares.

Their iPhones have reached a peak, where it appears people are no longer
willing to pay so much for them. They are too damn expensive, with nothing to
justify their costs. I am one of the morons who upgraded to the XS, but only
because I needed the 512GB storage. If not for the increased storage needs, I
wouldn't have upgraded and I know for a fact there is really no difference
after using it for several months. I have no plans on updating to the next
one, the first time since iPhone 3.

MacBooks are worse now than they were since 2015. I won't upgrade until they
get rid of the TouchBar. I would rather go back to Windows than use that
stupid TouchBar.

Apple software is terrible. iTunes is still the worst piece of software that
I'm forced to use. The bugs they've had are inexcusable.

Apple is the richest company in the world, and instead of paying their
engineers top wages, they are wasting it on stock buybacks. Until their
revenues decrease year-over-year they won't change their ways.

To put it bluntly, Apple is extremely, extremely arrogant and I hope they will
pay their price in the next few years. It feels like all product lines are
either too expensive and/or worse quality than even a few years previous. Many
people unhappy or unimpressed with their products, but they don't give a damn.

~~~
matwood
> Their iPhones have reached a peak, where it appears people are no longer
> willing to pay so much for them.

They may have reached peak growth, but the numbers show that outside China
(which in hindsight appears to have larger economic issues), millions of
people buy iPhones.

Are all the current iPhone users going to suddenly switch to Android? Very
unlikely.

By all accounts the XS is a great phone. If I had anything other than the X, I
would have upgraded.

> Apple is the richest company in the world, and instead of paying their
> engineers top wages, they are wasting it on stock buybacks.

You realize that Apple has so much money they can do both. This is not a
binary decision.

A much bigger issue for Apple is that they need more stores. They have a huge
advantage over any other phone maker in that people can walk in and get
service and support. The stores are so busy now, that it has become a
challenge. Hopefully the departure of the head of retail shows that Apple has
realized they have not grown the store base fast enough.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
_> You realize that Apple has so much money they can do both._

Not with the same dollar. We shouldn't forget what giving money back to
shareholders means. It means that Apple cannot think of anything to invest
that money in that's more promising than what investors can find elsewhere.

You could say it's prudent and honest. Instead of wasting all that money on
stuff that never yields a return they're handing it back their owners.

But I still find it surprising that a company like Apple with the enormous
leverage of billions of (the wealthiest) users and a brand name second to none
doesn't think that it can make great things happen with that money.

I don't think I'm best placed to tell them what that could be. But there are
clearly some huge gaps in their strategy.

For instance, they keep pushing AR, because AR is an area where latency
matters so much that you need expensive devices for it.

But AR would be so much more valuable in combination with all the information
that only Google Maps and Google Street View has. Even more so if you think
about the data that's going to be needed for (and generated by) self driving
cars.

I imagine it's hugely expensive to gather that information. Apple Maps is
second rate. They have nothing like Street View and no self driving car
project. I think owning information that makes high end devices far more
useful than low end devices is exactly what Apple needs.

There aren't going to be many players in that market exactly because it's so
expensive. Only the biggest global tech companies can really do it. That moat
will be one of the widest and deepest ever.

Gaming is another area where expensive devices make a difference. Playing
games is something almost everybody does on their iPhones. I find it baffling
that Apple isn't one of the biggest gaming companies.

Where are Apple's contributions to new user interaction paradigms? The touch
bar? Is that it? Apple just isn't thinking big enough. That's why they have so
much money left to pay back.

Anyway, you can completely disregard _my_ ideas on what they could do with
that money and still be surprised that _they_ can't think of anything.

~~~
matwood
Again, thinking binary is incorrect here. Apple is spending 10B+/year on R&D
[1]. They clearly can think of _something_. I guess it could be argued they
should be the top R&D spender (they are trending that way), but even if they
were they would still have enough money do stock buy backs and pay dividends.
The amount of money they make is staggering.

Apple has traditionally not be an acquirer of large companies. I know many
people argue for them to do some big acquisition. I'm not sure that's a good
idea.

Apple Maps specifically has improved a lot since release. I can't remember the
last time I used Google Maps. Apple is also collecting street view data [2].

Apple has plenty of areas to improve, but it is not from the lack of R&D
spending.

[1] [http://dashboards.trefis.com/no-login-
required/MCeJl2Yc?from...](http://dashboards.trefis.com/no-login-
required/MCeJl2Yc?fromforbesandarticle=is-apples-soaring-rd-a-sign-of-good-
things-to-come)

[2] [https://maps.apple.com/vehicles/](https://maps.apple.com/vehicles/)

~~~
fauigerzigerk
_> Again, thinking binary is incorrect here._

They can only spend each dollar exactly once. In that sense it is binary. But
of course they can decide to do buybacks and invest in stuff. That's what
they're doing.

My point is that I don't get why a company like Apple doesn't see great
investment opportunities for every last dollar they earn. Especially as they
have really huge gaps in their strategy.

They are not on a great trajectory right now. The services business they want
to expand on does not look that strong to me in spite of growing reasonably
fast right now.

------
komali2
That's a weird glitch, and generally I'm not a fan of apple hardware (I think
it's overpriced, that their keyboards suck, that they don't have enough ports,
and I don't enjoy working in osx), but this article comes off as almost
biblically haughty. Apple should have tests around clock updates affecting
external audio quality? I mean, maybe after this bug being discovered, sure,
but before, was that a connection that could have been made in a QA engineers
mind? Maybe it is, maybe it's fair? I don't know anything about manufacturing
hardware, but I just find it surprising.

Like, off the top of my head, the x1 carbon is still loved by most Linux users
(that I have encountered) despite the fact that out of the box, sleep
literally does not work on it for Linux systems. You have to install a BIOS
update. Yet Lenovo doesn't seem to get nearly the attention that apple does
for this and the myriad of other mistakes I have discovered with them.

~~~
mastazi
The article comes from CDM which is a music production website, MacBooks are
very popular in that field, and basically all audio producers use external
audio interfaces, it's not an uncommon use case. This is not the first time
that this type of issues happens (from memory, last year an OSX update broke
compatibility with Native Instruments Maschine, a very popular music
software). So I think the point that the article is trying to make, is that
music producers are one of the most Apple-leaning crowds, and yet they feel
like they are being ignored by Apple. But at the same time I understand your
point, this is a small market in the grand scheme of things.

~~~
iainmerrick
_music producers are one of the most Apple-leaning crowds, and yet they feel
like they are being ignored by Apple._ [...] _this is a small market in the
grand scheme of things._

This is the same point that’s often made about developers. But if it’s not
developers and it’s not music producers, what _is_ the large market for Macs
that dwarfs everything else? And are they at least getting the products and
features they want?

~~~
duado
The main market for Macs are people who want an expensive-looking, high
perceived quality machine for emails, Facebook, and Slack.

~~~
isostatic
Pretty much what I use my macbook air for - £900 back in 2013, battery still
lasts several hours. The electrical tape over the webcam reduces the
'expensive looking' part.

For real work on the road I use my t410s and ubuntu (although the hinge has
now gone, which is a right pain), but most of the time I do real work I'm at
home and use my z440 HP workstation (also with ubuntu)

------
rock_artist
I'm a former full-time musician working as an audio dev those days.

Developing audio-plugins (AU) make you use a lot of DAWs (digital-audio-
workstations). There's some issue with Logic Pro X that has been logged for
quite a while now.

A few days ago I heard the reason it isn't addressed for more than a year
now... The developer in-charge on that feature isn't allowed to access other
parts of code needed for fixing the issue.

Apple quality-control in the past years has been totally wracked. What
concerns me isn't this issue, but the future of it: \- it might won't be fixed
at all! (arghghgh) \- it might be fixed after very long time (and who know
maybe they'll break or regress something else).

~~~
jamesb93
Did you ever come across how they map parameters inside the VST/AU standard?
Everyone else does 0 -> 1\. They do 1 -> 120 or something completely boffed.

~~~
missjellyfish
AFAIK it‘s 1 to 127 because of MIDI.

~~~
jamesb93
I distinctly remember it being not the MIDI standard, and it was really
frustrating. I'll report back if I look at it again.

------
mrinterweb
I have a 2017 MBP, and it regularly has audio issues, among other issues.
Sometimes I'm able to kill the audio daemon, and get my audio back. Other
times I have to reboot (sometimes I have to reset the PRAM in order to get
audio back). I have audio problems at least once a week. I know two other
people with 2017 MBPs that have the same regular issues I do. I assume there
are many more.

I feel that recent Apple laptops are no longer premium machines regardless of
the premium price tag.

~~~
jonaswouters
I had a 2017 MBP and the USB speakers I had caused issues. I sold them
thinking it was an issue with the speakers, but the next set of USB speakers
had the same problem. Eventually, I just used AUX to connect them.

~~~
mrinterweb
The sound issues I've been running into are not limited to a single type of
output. When the sound is out on my computer it is out for internal speakers,
Bluetooth, HDMI, USB, and 3.5mm AUX.

------
dharma1
Honestly, I'm really disappointed with Apple for pro use lately.

1) not testing stuff thoroughly - the i9 mbpro overheating saga ("fixed" by
firmware upgrade), this T2 usb2 dropout (which probably isn't fixable at all)
- unacceptable.

2) releasing significant GPU upgrade 2 months after a flagship mbpro release -
I and many others were screwed by buying the latest and greatest (the most
expensive laptop I've ever bought) only to be obsoleted 2 months later by 90%
faster GPU that doesn't overheat, with no chance for customer exchange at that
point.

Inexcusable, I pay the Apple premium to avoid crap like this, now I'm
wondering what I am paying 2x for?

~~~
013a
Most recently, I'd also include the "iPad Pro Shipping Without A Headphone
Jack". It's different than ditching the headphone jack on the iPhone, which is
mostly just an inconvenience and wireless headphones are becoming more popular
anyway. Music production is literally one of their big advertising markets for
the iPad, with a vast array of applications available. Wireless headphones are
unusable for music production (not just quality, but also latency) (not
Apple's fault, its just bluetooth). So if I want to mess around and make some
sounds, I need a dongle for my headphones; and most often, I need a full
expensive USB-C hub because I need a second USB-C port for charging.

So now, you've got a hub to get two USB-C ports, then you've got a USB-C ->
3.5 dongle on one of them (some USB-C hubs have built-in 3.5 ports, but these
don't generally support audio passthrough, and the DACs inside the hub are
shit compared to Apple's official ones). If you've ever owned a big USB-C hub
like this, you'll know that they get Hot. Like, "that's uncomfortable to
touch" Hot.

All they had to do is put two USB-C ports on it. That's fine; I get that
headphone jacks are thick and "last gen". But they couldn't even do that.

~~~
ahakki
> the DACs inside the hub are shit compared to Apple's official ones

Nevermind the fact that Apple's official $9 audio dongle also only has a
barely acceptable DAC in it.

------
adrianhel
What is happening with Macs?

My butterfly keyboard repeats keys. This easily halves my typing speed. (Or
rather "Itt easily halves my ttyping speed")

Yesterday my machine got stuck booting with a black screen after running out
of battery with the backlight turned off.

Also, the keyboards have gone from making virtually no sound to making loud
clicking sounds.

I have also had a glitch where the sound gets distorted.

~~~
MattBearman
Depending on your Macbook's age and your location, you may be able to get the
keyboard replaced due to sticking keys. I ended up getting a brand new MBP
when they repeatedly fucked up repairing my sticking keyboard.

Obviously it would be better if the keyboards didn't break so easily to begin
with, but at least you may not have to put up with it :)

~~~
rbanffy
Once I entered an Apple store with a cracked case (white MacBook fell from the
table). I left with a brand new lower part (hard disk excepted - they moved
mine to the new machine) for free. There was a recall for the case, IIRC, one
for the upper palm rest (something to do with magnets that made the plastic
crack) and they replaced the keyboard for no reason.

I have to say Apple's support experience is stellar. I can't imagine having
that with a Dell or Lenovo.

~~~
rerx
With Lenovo you would get the 3 years onsite warranty with accidental damage
protection at the time of purchase. Then a technician will come to your office
or home and to replace the broken parts of your Thinkpad. That beats having to
go to an Apple store IMO.

------
sramsay
From the article: "Issues with the way the new chip synchronizes timing causes
dropouts and glitches in the audio stream. (It seems basically all USB 2.0
audio interfaces will be impacted. This of course unfortunately leads users to
blame their interface manufacturer, but the fault lies with Apple.)"

As someone who works with a lot of pro audio gear on the Mac, I can say that
it's hard to describe what a show stopper this is. Glitches and dropouts are a
catastrophic problem for almost anything involving sound, and they're right:
If you're having those kinds of problems, you run immediately to the interface
manufacturer.

Still, I'm not sure many people using _pro-grade_ audio interfaces (mine cost
almost as much as the computer itself) are still using the USB 2.0 bus.
Thunderbolt has been pretty enthusiastically embraced by the industry.

~~~
pier25
> Still, I'm not sure many people using pro-grade audio interfaces are still
> using the USB 2.0 bus

Audio AD/DA hasn't changed a lot in the past 10-15 years. A good USB 2
interface is still perfectly valid as long as the manufacturer provides
drivers. For example the legendary RME Babyface Pro.

~~~
sramsay
That's true. RME (definitely on the high end) is remarkably good about
supporting a wide variety of connection technologies. Include Firewire.

------
ipsum2
Thought this was regarding Macbook Pro speakers being blown out due to audio
glitches that was reported last week:

[https://www.dpreview.com/news/2610969677/some-macbook-pro-
ow...](https://www.dpreview.com/news/2610969677/some-macbook-pro-owners-
report-speaker-damage-after-experiencing-adobe-premiere-pro-audio-bug)

(RIP my 2018 Macbook Pro speakers, they sounded great when they worked)

~~~
ms013
I think I got bit by that last night - working with sound in Mathematica, a
simple MIDI tune was playing and then my MBP made a horrendously loud noise.
Didn't damage the speakers, which surprised me given how loud it was. Probably
the fastest I've mashed CMD-Q to quit a program though.

------
_asummers
Semi-related: But does anyone know why unplugging headphones while audio is
muted causes the audio to become unmuted? This is easily my least favorite bug
and results in a 10 second shuffle of frantically finding the mute button
again, sometimes with the laptop closed. It seems like something that would
never pass QA in previous iterations of Apple, though I could be remembering
the past more fondly than was true.

~~~
godzilla82
Have you tried reproducing this with other headphones, 2 channel ones etc.

~~~
PascLeRasc
Not sure if it's present in OS X, but I know at least iOS has impedance
memory, so it'll recognize specific headphones and set the volume to what it
was last at when they were plugged in. It's a really nice feature.

~~~
shorts_theory
TIL. That's really cool.

------
satysin
Interesting as I don't seem to have this issue on the two 2018 MBP I've had.
Originally I had a release day i7/32GB/1TB/560X model but it had a
power/charging issue so Apple replaced it with an i9 model which has been
perfect.

I have worried a lot about the keyboard breaking but so far it has been fine.
I actually really like working on it now with the exception of the TouchBar
which is the most useless change to keyboard design in years.

I really enjoy this laptop. I bought it after two years of pain buying,
replacing and ultimately returning sub-par Windows laptops from Dell, Lenovo
and Microsoft.

Apple gets a lot of hate in the tech press (and regular press sometimes)
whereas people seem to accept far worse issues from only-slightly-cheaper
Dell, Microsoft, etc. laptops.

The Dell XPS 15 9570 has far worse audio issues (DPC latency,
crackling/popping speakers), coil whine on the majority of units shipped,
keyboard issues (ironically I had more keyboard issues with my XPS 15) and
much worse thermal throttling compared to the MBP 2018. Sleep issues (honestly
just support S3 ffs)

I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. From thermal
throttling, constant BSOD/crashing when de/reattaching the performance base,
pen input skipping and a whole host of silly-but-annoying software issues and
of course sleep issues because not even Microsoft's own hardware works
properly with their new S0i3 Connected Standby crap.

The MBP isn't perfect. The constant anxiety that something will kill the
keyboard sucks but on the whole it is without a doubt the best modern laptop I
have used in that it has the least issues. It sleeps when I close the lid, it
also comes back on instantly, it never _needs_ to be rebooted to get things
working again, screen is stunning, runs cool and quiet when not being pushed
with no random spinning up of the fans for a few minutes, etc.

~~~
endorphone
It seems like people are comparing current Apple products with a mythology of
Apple products that never actually existed -- an invented fiction where in the
past the hardware and software was the height of perfection.

Every Apple device and software product ever has had a number of issues, many
significant. As you mentioned, however, the competitors hardly do better --
the litany of absolutely devastating faults with Dell devices I've experienced
(paramount being that they never lasted more than a small fraction of the
promised battery life) makes Apple look untouchable.

Apple should do better. For one MBPs should have something better than a
cheesy 1 year warranty, especially given the fears about keyboards et al -- it
essentially forces an AppleCare+ purchase. But the claims that this is a
deadly direction seem dubious.

~~~
satysin
Yes this is how I feel also.

I constantly hear the phrase "This wouldn't have happened under Jobs" and it
pisses me off. Apple had _loads_ of problems with hardware under Jobs.

You're right Apple should do better. I always factor AppleCare into the
machine cost the same way I used to with Lenovo's 3 year on-site warranty
upgrade after they changed it to depot by default and Dell's Plus warranty
option, etc.

IMHO Apple isn't any better or worst than they have ever been but they are
getting _cheaper_ with things like removing the AC extension cable, not
including a USB-C to USB-A dongle like Dell, etc. do

Considering how much of a lottery it is buying a Dell, HP, Lenovo, Microsoft
laptop is though there isn't much you can do. Apple is usually 20-30% more
expensive but I have easily wasted 200+% in time waiting around for Dell
engineers or shipping a unit back to Microsoft (as they don't even offer on-
site in Europe!).

------
ascar
Can someone provide a good quality example of code that would bug on system
clock updates? I have a hard time thinking about one. Especially as these
system clock updates shouldn't change the time for more than a few seconds, at
least if you have automatic updates turned on (and the fix in the article is
to turn that off). I'm not interested in examples that shouldn't have made it
through a merge request in the first place. It's not about the actual bug that
happened here, but more about general things to think about that can go wrong
with system time updates.

I can think about two main use cases for system time: Measuring time elapsed,
most notably for timeouts, and scheduling something in the future (which can
be done with a timestamp instead of time elapsed). Maybe I'm already missing
some important ones here.

In the time elapsed use case a time shift into the future might delay
something for these few seconds, which shouldn't result in more than a lag. A
shift into the past might trigger a timeout, but a timeout that triggers on a
few seconds should be a handled error.

In the schedule use case a time shift into the future shouldn't make any
difference. You can't assume it's run at exact times anyway and always use
"should happen after", i.e. greater than timestamp. A time shift into the past
might only delay it a bit, still no reason for a bug.

What am I missing?

~~~
vortico
This bug is caused by the Mac time daemon stealing 10ms+ of resources from the
scheduler (perhaps because of it being a wrong thread priority, or the clock
hardware taking a very long time to respond to an update request? who knows),
not because audio drivers use the real time value for any reason (they don't).

------
crazygringo
I'm curious... since it seems like a number of high-profile bugs often tend to
be with clock- or date-related things... is there a set of best practices
somewhere around creating time-related tests? A complete list of situations to
test under?

I'll confess that testing that my software works while a user (or daemon)
changes the system clock is something that I don't think has ever occurred to
me, and now I'm wondering what other edge cases also haven't occurred to me.

~~~
panic
Part of the problem is that it's hard to determine all the possible situations
you could be in -- changing the time during a DST transition while using the
Islamic calendar and so on. Formal methods are relatively inaccessible in
general, but I wonder if you could make an easy-to-use verification tool
specifically focused on date/time code.

~~~
ascar
You are right that it's near impossible and unpractical to test all edgecases.
But your example goes into the wrong direction. Shouldn't you build your
system completely agnostic of time interpretation changes? A DST transition is
not actually changing the time. The bug here seems to be coming from system
clock updates. I honestly also never thought testing against system clock
updates. If I schedule something to happen in 10 seconds I never expected the
system clock might be shifting backwards and 10 seconds might become minutes
or more. But that should be so super rare.

What is a realistic code example that might have problems with system clock
updates?

~~~
gmueckl
Not all parts of a system can be independent of changes to how time is
interpreted or displayed. E.g. in a calendar: what happens to the time of a
recurring meeting after a DST transition? What if participants are in
different time zones with different DST rules?

But as long as you only need to track time for dealing with time intervals in
an abstract fashion, you can get away with a nice continuous and monotonous
scalar representation of timestamps.

------
ngngngng
I had a different glitch but this reminded me. I have a 2017 Macbook Pro.
About a week ago, the left speaker randomly started blasting odd rhythmic
white noise. It stopped after a few seconds, but it appears to have blown the
left speaker. I've no idea if this is common, or how to prove it and get a new
one, or if I even care to go through the hassle.

~~~
kalleboo
This happened to me as well a few weeks ago. Same model MBP. Left speaker got
blown out. Haven't had time to take it in to Apple yet (my right hand USB-C
ports are also dead so I'm overdue anyway). Googling it, it seems we're not
alone

------
innocentoldguy
The article tries its best to sensationalize the fact that Apple, _gasp_ of
all people, has a bug it its stuff. The reality is that all software and all
devices have bugs. I would prefer a more journalistically honest, non-
sensationalist approach to writing. Tell me what the bug is. Tell me what it
affects. Tell me how to fix it. Done.

~~~
iceninenines
Maybe they're expressing their frustrations with Apple in general, but it is
weak to exaggerate.

And I'm unsure if you're an Apple fanboy or not, but you maybe missing the big
picture aside from this article: Apple is now just like supermarket produce -
pretty, tasteless garbage. The facts are:

\- Those low-profile keyboards are loud, uncomfortable and frequently break

\- Glued in batteries basically destroyed if removed

\- Overpriced

\- Many MLB failures causing all sorts of random problems

\- Many overpriced dongles required to do anything

\- Non-Apple USB-A to -C adapter disconnects WiFi, but works fine on all other
brands. Not just one adapter, multiple peripherals cause this issue.

\- All sorts of other random quality issues and first year breakages

\- No official parts channel

\- Hidden/proprietary tools for diagnostics, repair and dead MLB SSD transfer

\- Soldered in RAM

\- Soldered in SSD

\- No available schematics for repair

\- Apple declares almost every model "vintage" at six years, preventing
repairs and further OS upgrades

In conclusion, if someone is willing to take all this abuse when Apple clearly
tells them "FU," what should an observer think? To me, it says: _SJ is gone, a
bean counter and a Bentley-chauffeured designer don 't have a clue, so it's
time to give up on Apple's computers until they find some vision and
awareness._

~~~
innocentoldguy
Hello,

I can see why some of the things on this list might be frustrating for some
users. To offer a different perspective, I actually like many of the things
you consider "tasteless garbage." For example:

1\. I like Apple's low-profile keyboards. As I get older, I find myself
suffering more and more from RSIs unless my keyboard is absolutely flat and I
don't have to lift my fingers too much to hit the keys. Before I started using
Apple computers, I'd buy TypeMatrix and low-profile Logitec keyboards for the
same reason. Apple's low-profile keyboards feel pretty good to me. I cannot
use mice anymore either, and there isn't anything on the market that compares
to Apple's trackpads (both built-in and external).

2\. When I buy a laptop or desktop, I always max it out with memory at the
time of purchase, so I don't really care about removable RAM. Even on machines
I build myself, I max out the RAM and never touch it again. Since soldered-on
memory (and batteries and SSDs for that matter) result in a slimmer profile
and less weight, I prefer this in a laptop. I can see why this would be an
issue for some though.

3\. I think, the "Apple products are too expensive" argument is largely a
myth. Maybe other people have different experiences but I've used both Windows
and Apple computers throughout my career and my Windows machines are always
more expensive over time. When I buy an Apple laptop, the OS and all supported
updates are free, productivity tools and all supported updates are free, the
best version Apple has to offer of its development environment is free, and
most of the other software I use is a lot cheaper than similar Windows
products. Apple machines may cost me more up front (which isn't always the
case), but Windows machines have always cost me more in the long run due to
the cost of software and upgrades. For example, buying VisualStudio's standard
subscription alone adds $1,199 to the cost of my Windows computer the first
year and $799 every year after, easily eating up any savings I may have had at
the time of my original purchase. If I want to update Windows at some point,
that costs more as well. Productivity tools are now subscription based and add
to the cost over time, too. I typically use a laptop for three years and then
buy a new one. I've always spent more on my Windows laptops during those
three-year periods than I have on my Apple computers. My use case is probably
different that other people, so this may not hold true for everyone.

4\. I've been using Apple laptops since 2007 and never had a problem. I know
there have been publicized failures (just like there have for Dell, HP, and
components for DIY computers), but I'm pretty happy with Apples 12 year track
record with me personally.

5\. I've never used a dongle on my MPB. I do have some USB devices (e.g. audio
interfaces), but I just bought a couple of cheap USB-C to USB-B cords. No need
for expensive dongles. I guess that's the price of progress. I don't use my
serial/parallel port cords anymore either.

I'm not saying you don't have some legitimate complaints. I'm just saying my
experience and opinions have been different. I've always been satisfied with
my Apple purchases.

------
sbr464
I hope that fix mentioned works! I just changed the time setting now.

I use an iMac pro, I’ve definitely noticed it over the last few weeks,
typically when several chrome tabs are open or heavy use it seems. I also
noticed it pretty bad when using a Universal Audio Arrow device, and web midi
also.

Currently I close chrome and reopen to fix. Happens every 1-2 days.

~~~
tmikaeld
As mentioned in the comments on the link, it doesn't work. It just lowers the
amount of "clicks". I noticed the bug the same day the Mac mini 2018 came out
and have found no solution.

~~~
sbr464
Ah, that sucks. It’s definitely pretty bad, especially for a 6-8k+ machine.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Certain applications - Sibelius seems particularly bad - cause audio glitches
that can be cured by restarting coreaudiod.

The other glitching problem I've had is in Ableton Live, where every thirty
seconds or so the sound from the audio inputs glitches and breaks up, which
makes Live useless for any kind of recording.

This is a known Live bug that has been around for a long time. It seems to be
caused by the built-in audio devices competing with external hardware.

Certainly Apple are a long, long way from "It just works" now.

------
lowlevel
Generally, pro-audio users lag behind on OS updates and hardware updates.
Apple generally has problems with audio with every new generation, and this is
nothing new. When you count on something to work, you tend to buy the old
models.. you tend to run the previous known good OS... you tend to avoid
updating anything as much as possible. This is only getting worse as apples
software and hardware quality are severely degrading over the past few years.
Pro users are leaving left right and center.

------
doktrin
Apple's latest macs have all kinds of bugs and glitches that I can't remember
_ever_ being present in ~2010-2015 MBPs, including but not limited to what's
mentioned here (the already-shoddy keyboard being taken out by a spec of dust,
speakers blowing out entirely, screen develops massive artifacts / heat damage
from closing lid "too early", fan is a permanent 747 ready for takeoff, on and
on and on).

The quality of their laptops is sub-par relative to the price point. At this
point, the software / OS is the strongest selling point (to me, at least), but
my patience is wearing thin and at a certain point I'd rather just go back to
Linux rather than deal with this absurd form-over-function design-uber-alles
paradigm they've embraced.

------
mmfl
Apple definitely have a major issue here - I upgraded from the 2016 MBP to
2018 MBP (max'ed out specs in both cases apart from SSD size) and audio
dropouts etc when using Mainstage for live performance with virtual
instruments (sound sources) have increased greatly. I'm a (piano) keyboard
player and low buffer sizes and latency (<5 ms) are essential for turning my
MBP into a responsive and expressive musical instrument. Unfortunately such
settings reveal harshly the huge degradation in audio performance that has
occurred and I am not any longer be prepared to use my MBP in a live
performance situation. (Even if a larger buffer size reduces the dropouts I
don't want to play an unresponsive instrument.) It's just ridiculous to see my
powerful MBP running at very low percentage CPU utilisation and performing so
badly.

Interestingly yes I experience issues with my USB2 interface (RME Babyface
Pro) but also when using the MBP's headphone jack or the interface via USB
ports on my LG Ultrafine 5K monitor (which has its own USB chip). I do wonder
if the root issue may be along the lines of this poster's theory about poorly
written Apple driver code (since Apple probably wrote new driver code to
accommodate T2):
[https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=13492144&post...](https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=13492144&postcount=4)

------
uvu
Generally, Apple MacBook Pro suck since 2017!

~~~
siquick
Not sure why this getting downvoted.

Had my MBA for 6 years and worked perfectly the whole time, just needed to
install a new battery after 4 years but that was a personal preference.

I've had my MBP w/o touch bar for 13 months and I seriously regret spending
$2300 on it.

\- The keyboard is continually sticking, the left Command key is now
completely separated from the keyboard and falls out all the time. I make so
many typos now compared to the MBA and people also complain about how loud the
keyboard is when Im typing. \- The battery life barely lasts more than 2 hours
while the MBA lasted 5 hours for exactly the same use case. \- If someone
trips over the power cable then the whole laptop moves, on the MBA the magsafe
just disconnected and no harm done. \- Having to use adaptors for USB devices
is now getting really tedious.

Im at the point where I doubt my next laptop will be a Mac unless they do some
serious adjustments to these ridiculous keyboards. I just want the old
keyboard back.

~~~
csomar
I might be the exception here but the 2018 Macbook Pro keyboard is the best
I've typed on. It is accurate, quiet, requires very little effort to push the
buttons. I don't feel muscle fatigue typing on it.

> and people also complain about how loud the keyboard is when Im typing.

We must not be using the same keyboard. The mbp is quietest I've even used to
date. Everything else doesn't even come close.

> The battery life barely lasts more than 2 hours while the MBA lasted 5 hours
> for exactly the same use case.

That's weird. Mine lasts 8-10 hours. It lasts a good 6-7 hours of daily work,
watching videos, compiling C code, playing an intensive game and extensive
Chrome browsing.

> \- If someone trips over the power cable then the whole laptop moves, on the
> MBA the magsafe just disconnected and no harm done. - Having to use adaptors
> for USB devices is now getting really tedious.

The mbp is supposed to be a desktop replacement computer. Get a usb-c hub.
You'll be able to charge the device, connect all your devices (and screens!)
from one single usb-c. Put the hub close to the Mac. But yes, I do miss the
magsafe.

I've lots of complaints about the new MBP but none of the points you mentioned
above. I suggest you take it to an Apple shop for some diagnosis.

~~~
Rebelgecko
I like my USB-C/Thunderbolt dock (when it works... for some reason my 2
monitors get flipped about 20% of the time), but when it fell off my desk it
took my MBP with it :(

------
dep_b
The advice to just run to Windows for pro audio uses is really something I
wouldn't like to be accounted for. Sure, I had a stable rig with tight MIDI
and audio decades ago but I was a pretty huge geek and started with quality
components to begin with (the Asus P2B was almost godlike in performance and
stability) with of course just a bit of good old luck.

------
tsp
I am / was heavily invested in Apple hardware as well (MacBook Pro, iPhone,
iPad).

I recently switched to an Android phone, because the price-point of buying a
new iPhone is just not justifiable any more. Android feels a bit spammy, but
overall it does what I need it to do. I will stick with Android for now.

I was looking at the iPad Pro recently, because I could need a second screen
when I’m working e.g. from a co-working space. It looks beautiful, but things
like no-headphone jack makes it too much trouble for me. I don’t want to bring
my dongles all the time. As others have mentioned using Bluetooth headphones
for music production just isn’t good enough because of latency. Also I prefer
having devices without a battery. Less to think about when leaving the house.

I am using my MacBook Pro 2014 daily for 10+ for work and as a private
computer. It’s about time to upgrade for me, because I could save quite a lot
of time with a faster CPU. While I would love to have a more powerful device
running macOS (so a newer MacBook Pro), from what I heard they are just worse
than my 2014 MacBook Pro. I still use a lot of USB 2/3 devices, I want a
keyboard, which feels good and does not get broken easily. I don’t care about
it being thin at all. I want performance and an SD slot.

Because it is clear that there is no such machine produces by Apple right now
(and probably in the future) I had to look for alternatives. The Surface Book
2 by Microsoft is really interesting. They even have a Nvidia GPU, which can
be used for Deep Learning and graphical experiments. A big advantage over the
GPUs used by Apple imo. Sadly from all what I hear Windows 10 just isn’t good
enough to use it daily as a programmer. I spend many hours researching and
found a lot of comments from former macOS user who switched. Windows will
(still) drive you nuts if you are used to things just working they say.

The only alternative, Linux, would mean a serious commitment to figuring out
stuff by myself, spending time making my system work. I am currently stuck
with macOS, and therefore my laptop from 2014. I’m quite sure I will switch to
another OS in the next two years, but it is hard to figure out which is the
better option for me.

~~~
bndw
In my experience I spend most of my time in a terminal emulator or a web
browser. Windows runs Docker these days, so theoretically you could avoid
toolchain annoyance. Windows also has Firefox.

But, YMMV (written from a macbook)

~~~
tsp
Could be an option. But then I have to take care of two operating systems
instead of one. Maybe WSL will be worth a shot after the next update of
Windows 10. So far I did not hear too much good about it.

------
dwrodri
If you've never read Andrew Grover's "Only The Paranoid Survive" I highly
recommend it. It really appears that Apple has reached an inflection point
where they need to fix the core product design lifecycle. I think it's very
possible that the C-level execs and the board of directors don't realize the
pressing issues from the outside.

Sure, the typical software engineer isn't their target demographic. But I
would argue that tech-oriented users should be the bellwether for key issues
related to performance and usability since as a demographic they tend to do
things that will identify the flaws of your product.

------
graeme
As someone who just bought an imac pro for audio/video recording, this is
deeply disappointing.

Has anyone found that this workaround on reddit solved the issue?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/anvufc/psa_2018_macs...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/anvufc/psa_2018_macs_with_t2_chip_unusable_with_external/)

On a forum linked in the cdm.link article someone mentioned blocking the time
services via firewall: is there a list of everything needed to be blocked?

------
obituary_latte
I just bought a new Mac Pro after spending over a year trying to fix
audio/performance issues. Posting on stack exchange, apple forums, and endless
googling proved fruitless. I tried every possible reset (nvram et al) and even
created a new account (which seemed to help for a while until the issue came
back after a month or so oddly).

I had such a spark of hope when I saw this title. Alas, my fix for coreaudio
HALC_ProxyIOContext::IOWorkLoop: skipping cycle due to overload Audio still
eludes me.

------
imdsm
I recently bought a new MacBook Air, and it had an absolutely terrible
keyboard, and had a horrible high pitched whine. I sent it back within a few
hours and got a refund. So now I still have my Late 2013 MBP (top spec) but I
really want a new work machine. I've looked at a few Apple alternatives with
the intention of putting linux on them but they are all so ugly or bulky.

Is it so hard for laptop designers to create decent looking machines?

~~~
andmarios
I have a Huawei Matebook X Pro and I like it. There are many things to like
about it but the one that stands out for me is the 3:2 ratio screen.

No matter how much Dell and Lenovo call their offerings professional, I just
can't see a professional working on a 13" 16:9 screen.

Things I don't like about the Matebook is that the warranty and repair
services are basically unknowns, there is no next business day, on-site
warranty and of course, they aren't battle tested —though quality issues seem
to be all the more common for Lenovo, Dell an Apple nowadays. Had a friend
joke the other day _your Huawei is the only one sure to keep working, its main
purpose is surveillance and if it brokes down, it can't perform its duty_. :)

------
geden
Have had many issues with USB2 RME pro audio interfaces and recent Macs, the
most serious of which RME was able to overcome (for us) in the v3.13 driver.

More of a long term problem is the fact that USB C/TB3 is a totally unsuitable
connector for professional use. It's far too prone to coming out of the port
through lack of locking mechanism, insufficient friction. On MBPs the ports
also wear very quickly.

------
tempodox
> But more alarming is that this is another serious quality control fumble
> from Apple. The value proposition with Apple always been that the company’s
> control over its own hardware, software, and industrial engineering meant a
> more predictable product.

I can't believe they don't know that themselves and act accordingly. How much
more incentive do you need? What the heck is going on at Apple?

------
rachelbythebay
Guessing here, but ... CLOCK_MONOTONIC for the win?

~~~
Slartie
Would guess that as well. Very common error, which comes in many fashions and
which can be made in practically any language. I'm mostly working in Java,
where it's the same thing with System.currentTimeMillis() used instead of
System.nanoTime() to measure and/or enforce timespans (because "you know,
nanoseconds are so unwieldy, and milliseconds are so nice on the eyes, and I
only needed millisecond precision...and anyway, who on earth would change the
clock while our software is running...").

------
rbanffy
Isn't this being blown out of proportion? Can't it be simply repaired by a
firmware update?

------
StreamBright
Among other problems. IPv6 is not impossible to be disabled and few other
minor annoyances.

------
aqibgatoo
I have been frustrated by it..as of writing this comment the speakers have
gone dumb...

------
fcvarela
As frustrated with Apple as the next person, but I have never experienced this
using a bunch of interfaces and devices with their own clock source...

------
exabrial
Every mainstage user :/

------
iceninenines
Not surprised after watching Louis Rossmann's rants and demos of brand new
MBP's failing. Glad I bought a Lenovo T480 on-sale rather than deal with an
overpriced loaf Apple pinched out lately.

