
Gemini PDA: 20 years on, meet the all-new Psion Series 5 - cstross
https://jmcomms.com/2017/11/29/gemini-pda-20-years-on-meet-the-all-new-psion-series-5/
======
dm319
I had a Psion 3a, followed by a Revo and then a 5MX.

What was great about them was the ability to quickly flip them open and take
notes, or run a command-line program in it's OPL language, pretty much
instantaneously.

In the 90s this thing was in some ways more powerful than your regular desktop
computer - it had pre-emptive multitasking, SSD storage, ability to use email
and connect to the web via IrDA modem phones, as well as a built-in microphone
and digital audio. It's Agenda program has still not been bettered in my
opinion - giving you the confidence that your appointment is in the right
place in the calendar (having just had a reminder come up on my pixel for an
appointment meant for this time last year).

I tried to keep the dream alive with the Nokia E90 (which was too app focused
and slow, sadly), the N900 (a fantastic machine, hampered by a very limited,
tiny keyboard, and again, quite an app-focused desktop/phonetop). After
reading online people repeatedly saying that I should just give in and use any
modern phone with a bluetooth keyboard, I can now say conclusively that these
people had no idea what the Psion was all about.

My hope is that they can make Android or Linux work well with this form
factor. The hardware looks perfect (ok I'll admit I would have traded the
colour screen for a kindle-like screen for the discretion and battery life),
but the thing about the Psion was the speed and ease of operation. I really
hope they pull this off!

------
cstross
One thought:

Back in 1997-2000, the Psion 5 was anything but niche; it was the leading
paradigm for PDAs aside from the Newton/Palm tablet. (It died out due to a bad
coincidence: Microsoft pre-announced the Windows CE 3 "Jupiter" platform,
configured to look like a Psion killer on paper, right as Psion's CEO David
Potter became seriously ill. Psion was sold off and left the field; meanwhile,
WinCE 3 failed to set the world alight, and Potter survived.)

But back then, selling a million PDAs meant you were _huge_. Integration
between featurephone OS and PDA functionality still lay in the future; indeed,
the leading platform, Symbian, was a direct descendant of the Psion Series 5's
EPOC/32 OS.

Today, we've got smartphones _everywhere_ , but they mostly look very similar
— small tablets with cameras and multitouch screen UIs. Probably not that many
people will prefer a keyboard-driven PDA style of device. But there are so
many more smartphone users out there that even a 1% niche market is probably
bigger than Psion at their peak. Which is why Gemini is of interest: the
Android market has gotten so large that it may now support odd alternative
device formats.

~~~
Cyberdog
But is "mini-tablet with a usable keyboard" really that odd of a device format
these days? On Black Friday, I could have picked up something matching that
description at a superstore for less than a C-note. It wouldn't have had the
Psion lineage or perhaps not the build quality, but at the price point this
device is going for, I don't really see the appeal unless that lineage really
means that much to you.

~~~
timthorn
Finding a clamshell with a proper keyboard is still hard. This folds up nicely
and fits in a jacket pocket.

------
throwanem
Damn it, I don't _need_ another computer. I _really_ don't need another Linux
machine in my life, even if it runs Debian - which I like very much - and
probably runs it very well. I don't have a use case for a machine like this,
even if it does appear very much to be the pocket computer I've never quite
managed to stop wanting since earliest childhood. But I'm a grownup now, with
adult-sized responsibilities, and I don't want for more worthy purposes to
which to put the money I would spend on this.

And yet...

~~~
ianai
It’s like you read my mind. It might be easier to bang on with its keyboard
though. I’d definitely go with the Linux option over the android.

~~~
dm319
Have you tried termux?

------
ptx
My main worry about this device is that it will, like most modern phones,
quickly become useless due to lack of software updates.

They're building it with Android 7, which was before Project Treble[1], so
future updates are at the mercy of all the chip suppliers and their
willingness to port their ad-hoc drivers to newer kernels.

When the device stops receiving updates, it won't be safe to use on the
Internet anymore and things like out-of-date SSL certificates will break
things (see e.g. this video[2] for what browsing the web on Symbian and MeeGo
devices looks like today).

[1]
[https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble](https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGji6DPwIYY&t=820](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGji6DPwIYY&t=820)

~~~
thinkythought
It runs linux natively. Even if android stops getting updates, you can update
that as long as you like

~~~
ptx
Not if it needs a forked kernel to support the hardware (at least not without
a lot of work).

Also, most GUI applications designed for a traditional GNU/Linux desktop
system are not going to work well with a tiny, high-resolution touch-screen.

~~~
sbmassey
I wonder how convenient it would be to run i3 with a browser and an emacs
window or terminal on the thing. That would cover a lot of possible use cases
for me.

~~~
forapurpose
Is Emacs efficient with 2-finger typing?

With the handheld form factor revolution, we need text editors that use that
interface as efficiently as Emacs and Vim use the full keyboard interface.

~~~
michaelmrose
I would argue that the keyboard is already the optimal device to both input
and manipulate text to the point where touch adds little.

~~~
forapurpose
I wasn't clear: I meant that Emacs and Vim are optimized for 10-finger typing
on full-sized keyboards. We need something for 2-finger keyboards typical on
phones, or more broadly something optimized for phone input (maybe including
gestures, for example).

~~~
michaelmrose
2 fingers is so comparatively terrible that there is nothing on earth you
could do to make it better than connecting a keyboard.

------
devereaux
This is an ARM android device, with possible Linux support, available sometime
in the future.

If you want a x86 device shipping now with 2x the RAM and storage, and running
an operating system that gives you the freedom to run a wider range of
applications (ie Windows 10 or Linux) and if you do not care too much about
the keyboard springs (ie are comfortable with a macbook like "chiclet"
keyboard) check instead the GPD Pocket.

[https://www.slashgear.com/gpd-pocket-ubuntu-editon-
review-29...](https://www.slashgear.com/gpd-pocket-ubuntu-editon-
review-29502163/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/comments/6idnia/linux_on_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/comments/6idnia/linux_on_gpd_pocket/)

I am getting one to run statistical software and Mathematica. Costs about $450
from China, also available on Amazon prime if you need it now.

I considered waiting for the Gemini, because it has LTE and a better keyboard,
but the large bezel on the right of the screen made me decide against it. If
they fix at least the screen I could consider getting a Gemini, even if the
ARM cpu means I would need wine+Qemu to run some windows applications.

~~~
cstross
The GPD Pocket is, indeed, very nice. However, it's much larger and heavier
than the Gemini.

The Gemini has two obvious advantages over the GPD Pocket. One is LTE; the
other is its small size. Size restrictions were imposed on electronic devices
permitted in the cabin on flights between certain middle eastern airports and
the USA early in 2017 due to a specific terrorist threat.

While those size restrictions were not extended to cover EU/USA flights, and
appear to be being relaxed, if they're revived we can expect a ban on flying
with anything significantly bigger than a 5.5" phablet in the cabin.

The Gemini slips under the size bar; the GPD Pocket doesn't.

~~~
devereaux
These are valid objections, but premature optimization is the root of all
evil.

If these restrictions are extended, I do expect a GPD Pocket2 designed with
these restrictions in mind, to fly just under the radar.

At the moment, the GPD Win2 is being designed, with a M2 SSD slot as many
people complained about storage.

It is reasonable to expect a GPD Pocket2 after that. As many users are
complaining about the lack of WWAN, I do expect it will come with LTE (and an
outside screen to display the calling number) or at least a slot to add it in
the M2 slot.

~~~
tluyben2
I spent a lot of time with the Pocket; I think the Linux niche (Gemini has
that too) is a good one as there are plenty small devices with Windows 10
already, like the Mipad (very nice by the way and a lot cheaper, however you
need to get an external keyboard) but not so many Linux ones. After getting
used to the weird keyboard (few days) I find I love the screen, battery life,
pointer nob and build quality. What could be improved; a bit smaller, wwan and
keyboard backlighting. And possibly the keyboard itself. Then it would be
perfect.

~~~
devereaux
As a big thinkpad fan, I must say the Pocket trackpoint had a lot of influence
in my purchase decision :-)

Basically, I just want a device that I can use like my thinkpad (open it, and
use command line tools or x86 software though wine). The GPD pocket is the
first device that got me this "thinkpad" impression. Also, I do not want a
bluetooth keyboard. I do not want to fiddle with batteries/paring/any other
software issue.

The keyboard is my #1 concern. I tried an apple bluetooth keyboard with an
ipad for a while -- I think that is the highest available quality/ease of use,
but even that setup was not satisfying.

Besides storage issues (no removable storage!), the wwan and keyboard
backlighting other bother me.

I will certainly buy a GPD Pocket2 when they come out, and a Gemini if they
fix the screen. I am still looking for the right device.

~~~
tluyben2
> As a big thinkpad fan

I have a stack of X220's with big batteries , which are still my favorites,
but for travel it's not very good. If they break, they can be replaced for
$50-80 which is excellent, but they are just too bulky. But that, indeed, made
me a huge trackpoint fan. So much more comfortable than a trackpad imho.

> ipad

No 'unrestricted' OS is an issue when programming; I tried a lot of ways to do
coding on Android/iOS but it's just not very nice. Linux is more obvious for
me personally.

> I am still looking for the right device.

Yep. But at least choice is reaching us fast; it is possible to build the
perfect machine for a few $100k in small runs; that used to be hard. When the
OpenPandora came out, that was still a huge issue. Now it's actually possible.
So i'm thinking more people will push for perfection. In my world, battery
life is by far the most important; I don't care so much about cpu/gpu power
(if I need that, I login on a server for cpu/gpu or memory work and I don't
like 3d games; I like 2d games), but an empty battery is really annoying. As I
travel a lot, I find myself with fine internet but scarce power and I need 10+
hours to work. With the OpenPandora (too low resolution/not very good screen
and very annoying keyboard but removable batteries and good software community
/ hackers) or Pocket I am happy.

My dream setup would be:

\- l x w size of the Gemini \- h size more of the pandora (you need to give in
somewhere for below features) \- Linux (it's an expensive and full featured
machine; it needs a full OS imho, or at least the option for one) \- swivel
(2-in-1) of the zaurus (that would be a dream but probably very hard to do);
the zaurus was lightyears ahead of what they have now in that space imho; you
had a little tablet but no keyboard in the way like those 2-in-1/flips usually
have now \- sd card slots of the pyra/pandora \- ports of the pyra \- storage
of the Pocket (looking at the space inside the pandora _now_ and the internals
of, say, an Samsung ssd, it would be possible to fit swappable inards of an
ssd drive, so that would make it even more perfect) \- 4g/wwan of the
gemini/pyra \- usbc of the pocket (not sure about the pyra but the charger for
the pandora is annoying; you can them charge with usb but that's very slow) \-
keyboard of the gemini/psion \- screen resolution / quality of the Pocket (for
me touch screen is not needed ; that would only be handy if 2-in-1) \-
trackpad of the pocket \- hotswap batteries (aka little battery to allow for 3
minute swap window) of the x230+ \- backlighting of the macbook

The thing i'm not sure about is casing; aluminium (Pocket) isn't very sturdy
and plastic (Pandora/x220) cracks fast; I think I like the Pandora way better
though; it's easy to replace the casing and it's less bothersome if it cracks.
It looks far worse though. What would be a more rugged option?

The price could be higher as this is a niche device; only weirdos like me
would buy it anyway but there are enough of us to make a few runs as prices
fall for making this kind of thing.

~~~
devereaux
We share many opinions! I need Windows or Linux. I can't do with restricted OS
like android or iOS.

I also have a stack of thinkpads. When I need to travel, I grab one. At that
price, I am not concerned about forgetting it in the plane, or a thief. And
thinkpads do swivel!

I agree with your analysis of small computers ; besides all the things you
list, I would love to see an eink display. In fact, a swivel with 2 screens
would be ideal: one eink, one lcd.

A small run can now be done for cheap, and there is demand. Hopefully, someone
will want to make a nice profit and deliver what we want.

~~~
tluyben2
Yep; i was thinking that on a flight yesterday; if only this Pocket had an
eInk on the lid.... Kindle paperwhite fits nicely on there... And a physical
(w)wan switch, also for the airplane.

------
AnotherHustler
According to their IndieGoGo page, the Gemini is still in prototype stage - it
hasn't yet entered production. Is it possible they can go to manufacture and
ship devices in December?

[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-
linux-...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-
keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/)

I've been considering ordering one - I loved the Psion, although I am not sure
they will deliver on-time as promised.

Has anyone been following the campaign as a backer? What's the general
feeling?

~~~
FullyFunctional
I backed it and we've gotten regularly updates. I believe they are in
production now, or very close to it. Of course they are late, but so are
practically all crowd-sourced ventures. They have demoed prototypes on
multiple occasion (I haven't see it) so AFACT, it's for real.

------
maxxxxx
I loved my Psion. I could actually use it to write documents or spreadsheets
on a plane without problems. The battery also lasted really long.

I guess the success of this may be defined by the quality of the keyboard. The
Psion's was just phenomenal.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Exactly this, sort of a super calculator and simple note taker. Not a fan of
the price though at $600. I would have rather they had done a PS5 clone with a
200Mhz 32bit Cortex M CPU from ST micro and have the whole thing cost less
than $100.

~~~
cstross
I paid $369 for a wifi/LTE early bird special on the Indiegogo campaign site.
It's still available for $400 plus shipping; I don't know where you're seeing
$600, but that sounds like a scalper price from a retailer claiming early
availability.

~~~
lykr0n
the price is in the article.

------
Grumbledour
I am looking forward to this device because I really love the form factor. I
do think ti will fail however, the reason being why most of these kind of
devices fail today: lack of focus on software.

Just slapping some form of android on you device doesn't make it great. Even
if you do everything right, you are still just as good as all other major
players in the market. But of course, most companies can't even ship android
updates and start with old versions to begin with, so there is that. And
android apps often are not really optimized for every other form factor that a
phone in portrait mode.

So, then there are the ones with linux, like this one. Which is cool, because
you can run whatever you want. But also, linux is mostly an afterthought for
the device maker and even if it isn't, software is seldom adopted beyond
installing a lightweight desktop and switching out some icons. and even if it
were, linux really is not build for mobile usage today, so the UI will very
likely still be really bad.

I think unlike there is much more focus on adopting software to these form
factors, using these kind of devices will always be sub-par. And that's a real
shame, because I feel they have such as much potential as pure smartphones. A
portable computer that can really do some work and be nice to use for more
than watching video is a problem no one seems to really have cracked yet.

------
jdietrich
This looks super cool, but I'm not sure I'd use it.

When the Series 5 was launched, there weren't a lot of good options for text
input on mobile devices. The keyboard made a huge difference, because your
alternatives were a full-size laptop, Graffiti on a Palm device or the awful
resistive touchscreen on a WinCE device. The Psion 5 was the most useful
productivity device that could fit in a coat pocket.

Today, touchscreen keyboards work well enough that a Psion 5-sized keyboard
isn't a vast improvement. For less than $30, you can buy a folding Bluetooth
keyboard that is barely bigger than a phone when folded, but gives an almost
full-sized keyboard when unfolded. The Gemini's fixed keyboard makes it
impractical to use as a phone, but isn't as good as a folding bluetooth
keyboard. Loath as I am to admit it, I think it's simply an obsolete form
factor.

If the keyboard snapped on magnetically, I might have given it serious
consideration. As it is, I just don't see where such a device would fit into
my workflow.

[https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Portable-Keyboard-
Bluetooth-W...](https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Portable-Keyboard-Bluetooth-
Wireless/dp/B00YWLJNPQ/)

~~~
dingaling
> Today, touchscreen keyboards work well enough

They barely work at all, it's only autocorrection that makes them tolerable.
And if there's any moisture on the screen then the input will be erratic and
useless.

~~~
jdietrich
Autocorrect is part of the input method. It's damned near impossible to input
Chinese characters into a computer without some sort of predictive system. T9
was an integral part of text input on phones with a numeric keypad.

I've just checked and I can comfortably type on a phone at over 25wpm. That
isn't blazing fast, but it's within one standard deviation of the average
typist on a full-size qwerty keyboard.

It's not great, but I'd certainly call it good enough. The gap just isn't very
big between typing speeds on a touchscreen or a small physical keyboard. I
think the market bears that out - physical keyboards have all but disappeared
from mobile devices, because they just don't add enough value for most users
to justify the added bulk or the reduction in screen size.

Incidentally, wet finger tracking has improved massively over the last couple
of years. My current phone works pretty much impeccably even if it's soaking
wet.

[https://imlocation.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/how-fast-do-
peop...](https://imlocation.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/how-fast-do-people-type/)

~~~
throwanem
I can barely manage 20wpm on my phone, and that's on a good day; the next-
keystroke prediction and autocorrect both fail so often that I spend as much
or more time correcting text as I do entering it. Meanwhile, I easily hit
120wpm when typing on a real keyboard.

Typing on a phone feels like having both thumbs tied together behind my back,
with one finger broken. One reason why I'm so excited by the Gemini PDA is
that it might _not_ feel that way.

------
giobox
It's never a Psion without that sweet spring-loaded hinge design they
developed to contain the double A batteries on most of their PDAs, variations
of which were used on the great 3 and 5 series.

It was oddly satisfying just playing with the mechanism, easily one of the
most over-engineered parts I've seen on a clamshell style computer.

~~~
bestham
It was awesome. I’ve worn out a Revo playing with that. But the most over
engineered hinge design IMHO have to be the IBM butterfly keyboard on the
Thinkpad 701.

------
MrMember
I'm really looking forward to the release of this. Im hoping to replace my
phone with it, a device that dual boots Linux and Android and has a physical
keyboard is like my dream phone.

~~~
jff
Yeah, my phone died recently and I'm really considering replacing it with
this. I can hold out on an old spare iPhone until then, I think.

------
cnlevy
I had the Psion Revo+, I used to code and compile Java 1.1 programs on it.

Everything had to be cointained in 16Mb RAM, the Revo+ didn't have a flash
card reader

I even managed to include Swing and HSQLDB

------
protomyth
This machine falls into the same category as the TRS-80 Model 100 for me. An
amazing battery life machine that I get my thoughts down with a minimum of
fuss. The Psion 5 was a nice machine, but I would wish for a horizontal enter
key as opposed to the vertical. I really wish a few more groups would take a
look at this form factor because it is amazing.

On a side note, was there not a machine in this type of form factor from back
in the day that had APL for a programming language?

~~~
lproven
Are you thinking of OPL?

OPL -- Organizer Programming Language -- was the default Psion high-level
language bundled with all their EPOC machines. It's a block-structured BASIC-
like language.

~~~
protomyth
No, I was thinking APL. I gotta look, it might have been one of the ones jecel
showed in his comment, but I swear it was smaller.

------
throwanem
On further review, a concern: instead of a meta key next to 'q' which can be
conveniently remapped to Control, this keyboard has Tab.

In the abstract, it seems reasonable to suspect that that can be mapped in a
somewhat complex fashion, such that when pressed and released alone it issues
0x09, while when pressed and held in combination with other keys it sets the
Control meta bit. I'm certain Emacs can do this. Can it be done in a Linux DE
more generally? It seems like that should be possible, but I'm having a hard
time finding examples of similar things being done.

ETA: Or I _was_ ; at-home-modifier [1] looks like it'll fit the bill. Crud.
There goes what might've been my last reason not to buy one of these things...

[1] [https://gitlab.com/at-home-modifier/at-home-modifier-
evdev/w...](https://gitlab.com/at-home-modifier/at-home-modifier-
evdev/wikis/home)

------
Postosuchus
As much as I am a sucker for such gadgets (owner of Psion 5 in the past; those
memories of playing Infocom games on a Psion are difficult to forget), I don't
see a point apart from a bunch of enthusiasts...

It lacks the pocket factor of a smartphone, usability of a full-sized keyboard
and a screen size to support practical apps beyond basic browsing etc. Couple
this with a prohibitive price point (which can buy you a high-end smartphone,
a very solid Chromebook, or a "generally practical" laptop)... I just cannot
find a solid use case for this kind of device...

------
zuminator
I would consider this, although seems to me that instead of reinventing the
phone part, they could've devised a Psion-like keyboard attachment to an
existing premium phone.

------
arca_vorago
I've been trying to decide between the PS5 and the Purism phone, and my main
problem with the PS5 is that Linux is only a dual boot option. If I see
lineageos or another Foss android working (replicant?) On it I would greatly
prefer the real keyboard of the PS5.

------
Crontab
If NetBSD gets ported to it, I would seriously consider getting one.

------
baybal2
Sadly, their crowdfunding campaign was spoiled by the fact that they were
launching almost simultaneously with GPD Win, Onda, Chuwi, and Chiron Sigma

~~~
tluyben2
You mean GPD Pocket instead of Win? It runs Linux very well. With i3, i get
consistent 23 hours battery life while coding from it while on it the road.

