
Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You - HigginsNinja
http://thecodist.com/article/why_i_don_39_t_do_unpaid_overtime_and_neither_should_you
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AnimalMuppet
I'm an "exempt" employee. That means that I'm exempt from the fair labor laws.

It means that, for example, I don't get docked in pay if I work a few _less_
hours this week. It means I don't punch a timeclock.

We just had a bit of a big deal about this at work. Some of us were taking
parts of days off, and marking them as such in our system: "I took two hours
off today." HR told us to stop. Apparently, there's some kind of a
legal/liability issue they were getting into, where exempt employees don't
have to do that. We can just take a couple hours off, without using up
vacation time to do it. (I don't know the details about it. I can't tell you
how to make your HR department see it this way. To me, it was just one more of
those random HR policy changes. But the point is, exempt is a different set of
rules, and some of those rules are pretty nice.)

Exempt also means, once in a while, that I get called in after hours, or that
I work unpaid overtime. I accept that, as long as it doesn't happen too often.
I accept the bad part of the deal in order to also get the good part.

If you refuse to work unpaid overtime, are you also willing to let go of the
good parts of the deal?

~~~
hwstar
It would depend on company policy. If company policy requires you to take PTO
for a doctor's or dentists appointment, then I'd only work 40 hours at that
company. If the company doesn't account for exempt time, then they may get
more than 40 hours of work out of me.

Regarding exempt employees having to take PTO, recent court challenges in
California have come out in favor of the employer. See Rhea V. General
Atomics. [http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-
appeal/1673316.html](http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-
appeal/1673316.html)

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CamTin
I used to have difficulty explaining to people why I was unwilling to work
unpaid overtime, but I've finally settled on just saying "It's a moral issue;
I think it is wrong." This seems to shut people up, at least, though they
probably think I'm some kind of nuts Marxist.

Asking for more labor in return for no more pay is _wrong_ and allowing this
kind of immorality to happen by willingly participating in it is also wrong.
Therefore, living a moral life is incompatible with unpaid overtime.

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lsiebert
It's interesting to note that, in california, even if you are salaried as a
programmer, you may still be due overtime if you earn a little less then 86k a
year.

[http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/LC515-5.pdf](http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/LC515-5.pdf)

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hwstar
This article is spot on. American businesses are not hanging by a thread, they
are beating a horse drawing an overloaded cart, and don't care if the horse
drops dead. They think they can just get another.

In today's business environment, everything seems to be both urgent and
important. I think that a lot of that is due to who is in charge and what they
think is pressing at the time. Everything cannot be urgent and important, only
some small percentage of what needs to be done should be labeled as such.

The only way to fix this in the short term is for everyone to start saying
"No" to chronic overtime. I define chronic overtime to be a work week which
exceeds 48 hours over a 6 week average. Maybe then, companies will decide
which tasks are really worthwhile and only direct efforts to them, or if they
are understaffed, hire enough staff to get the important stuff done.

In the longer term, we need to reform the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 to
eliminate unpaid overtime except in unusual situations. The European Working
Time Directive is an excellent example of model legislation. We just have to
keep nagging our congresspersons, and beat back the US Chamber of Commerce's
lobbying efforts.

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angersock
It's especially due to the lack of desire to be contacted outside of work
hours that I do not have my work email configured to forward to my personal
emails or to alert me on my phone or any other damn fool thing.

You've got to train the bozos that, once you're off, you're _off_.

~~~
tedchs
IMHO emails shouldn't be raising notifications no matter what time it is. If
you need to reach me synchronously, that's what chat is for.

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tedchs
For all the stories saying "I was forced to do 80-100 hour weeks for months",
I wonder how often these employees say "I'll do it for one week because I want
to support this team, but I'm sorry I have other obligations beyond that that
limit me to working only a regular week with an occasional 2-3 hours overtime
if needed". Maybe I'm biased but I have trouble envisioning an environment in
which a manager would fire somebody for that.

~~~
csixty4
I had an employer chide me for only working 40 hours a week. I was told "come
on, there's programmers in Silicon Valley who sleep under their desks every
night!".

At drinks after work, the co-founder of a startup complained about people
leaving the co-working space at 5:00 every day. "What's the matter with them?
Don't they like money?"

If you're having trouble envisioning that kind of environment, it means you're
a good, empathetic person. And it means you've had the luck of only working
for managers who believe in work/life balance and a healthy approach to the
job. Hopefully their example sank in, because if you're not a manger already
you're well on your way to being one of the good ones.

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brador
The idea of unpaid overtime for salaried employees is you do the overtime then
take the hours off later in the week, so work 3 extra hours monday, take
thursday morning off.

If you're not taking the hours off later than you're just working for free.
Which, yes, is silly.

