
Ask HN: I'd like to learn vocals, any suggestion on how I can do this? - kevindeasis
I&#x27;m thinking of paying a tutor online, but I&#x27;m curious about other ways to go about it
======
brooklyn_ashey
I’m a professional musician in NYC. I perform and record classical and “jazz”
and compose music. I learned to code a while ago too. Here are a few vocalists
who “taught themselves” how to sing: Chet Baker, Stevie Wonder, Ella
Fitzgerald, Sheila Jordan, Blossom Dearie, Bob Dorough, James Taylor, Nelly
McKay... even Barbara Streisand. (at first) I’d say all great singers play an
instrument well, but Ella and Sheila didn’t, nor did Barbara. What do you like
to sing? What do you want to do with it? Since you didn’t say “opera” and you
called it “vocals”, I’m guessing you like pop or jazz or singer/songwriter
stuff. If jazz, who is your hero? If they are alive, call them up for a
lesson. I promise they will love to teach anyone with enthusiasm. I know,
because I know this crowd of vocalists well. Where do you live? Looking past
these times, it would be great for you to just go out and sing with a band
every week. Every city has such a thing and it is usually a supportive group
of people. Singers are great for that. But most impirtantly— apart from opera—
there is no wrong way. we have mics now. Don’t worry about doing something
“with bad habits”. The only important bad habit to avoid is to not try for
fear of doing something wrong. I promise that there is no wrong if you listen,
embrace mistake making and experiment with relish. That is how any great
singer or musician does it. You don’t “need a teacher” but it’s fun to have
someone to check in with. Better than a teacher— pick some songs you love,
learn them and find a fantastic, professional accompanist who will play them
with you once a week. (guitarist, bassist, or pianist— even vibes— a comping
instrument, not a melody one)I could recommend actual people if I knew where
you were. Just listen hundreds of times to great vocalists singing the same
song. For example: How Deep Is The Ocean— Sheila Jordan, Chet Baker, Ella, ...
anyone you love and imitate exactly how they sing it— note for note, bend for
bend, even the scatting parts- especially those. Get the phone app: The
Amazing Slow Downer and loop sections so you can sing exactly like them. This
builds your ear and your technique. Obviously, you don’t want to sing the song
like they do at all, but you want to learn from them. For more current
singers—I’ve been digging Natalia Lafourcade recently, her phrasing is
impeccable and natural. Nelly McKay is also such a natural singer- her If I
had You is so perfect. Just put a little set together w a friend and go
outside (10 ft apart) and sing to people walking by. That’s better than any
teacher. I wish you great fun and encourage you to get singing ASAP! Cheers!

You may want to check this out- online classes from Berkeley- I saw that you
were nearby... [https://cjc.edu/workshops/](https://cjc.edu/workshops/) I know
Kate McGarry and have heard Dena DeRose teach many times- both phenomenal
singers and teachers of singing. Both classes look interesting! You could also
email Kate or tweet to her to see if she might know a good accompanist or
vocal teacher or if she herself does lessons outside the music school.

There is also SFConservatory, but I don't know the whole faculty there.

~~~
brooklyn_ashey
BTW, this is how birds learn their calls! The only app or teacher or tuning
device you will ever really need are your own ears. We musicians develop
technique by training ourselves to listen and sing using our listening as the
guide— this is how we improve. No person or device can do this for you— this
is what singing is all about just like logic is what programming is all about.
There is no shortcutting this— it is myelinating those nerve fibers through
practice and listening and developing an opinion of your own about it. The
mindset is not about getting a badge from a qualified judge— that judge is you
and only you. The mindset is about adventure and experimentation and
creativity and expression of style.

------
mrxd
Getting a voice teacher made a huge difference for me. I wouldn't have been
able to make anywhere close to the same progress on my own.

Having tried it, I think singing is poorly suited to self-learning. In my
experience, vocal lessons are designed around identifying and overcoming
problems and habits that are unique to each person. Identifying problems is
done by ear or by observing subtleties in body posture, which require
experience and training.

------
jbms
I personally got a lot of benefit from singing teachers who posted daily vocal
warm-ups on Youtube that you can try and sing along to, and they tell you what
to do and what not to do. Exercises to separately work on and develop your
posture, airflow, vocal chord usage etc are useful as you can improve the
individual parts. I'd never had any vocal training and am not trying to be
amazing - just to improve and have some control and consistency. Some also
post classes, where you can see them coaching others and learn from them.

Particularly I'd mention Eric Arcenaux:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5hS7eukUbQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5hS7eukUbQ)

Listening to podcasts by performers about their daily routine might be useful
if you want to know what they need to do to care for their voice in order to
be able to perform daily.

~~~
rahimnathwani
Eric also has Udemy courses:

[https://www.udemy.com/user/ericarceneaux/](https://www.udemy.com/user/ericarceneaux/)

------
breakingcups
There are a thousand different techniques to learn how to sing and many people
stick to their "tribe". If you're smart, you'll look beyond whoever teaches
you first and stay open to other techniques with different approaches or
opinions. Stick with what feels good for your body. If your throat hurts,
stop.

Now, having said all that. I have had really positive experiences with a
teacher who teaches CVT (Complete Vocal Technique). I'm sure a huge part of
this was the individual teacher I found, but every lesson I walked away
feeling like I had learned something new and had improved my technique. If
there's a licensed CVT teacher near you, I'd highly recommend trying them.

~~~
vthommeret
I also highly recommend Complete Vocal Technique. It breaks down the voice in
a unique way that I think particularly appeals to engineers and teaches you
how to re-create any style safely by using correct vocal support, vowel
choice, mouth position, etc...

My vocal coach (Greg Delson) is incredible and teaches Complete Vocal
Technique. He does online lessons, group lessons, etc... that are worth
looking into:

[https://www.landlights.com/vocal-
instruction](https://www.landlights.com/vocal-instruction)

[https://www.instagram.com/landlights.music/](https://www.instagram.com/landlights.music/)

------
rednum
Music is my life-long passion, and I took rock/pop singing lessons for some
time so I feel I can relate to where you are and give some actionable advice.

There is only one thing you can do: find a good teacher. You don't have
experience related to singing, so you are not even able to diagnose what you
are doing wrong and start working on it. You accidentally start pushing
yourself into direction opposite to what you should be doing as I did at some
point. Also, it's important to find a _good_ one: if a teacher suggests
something, then you try it for a few weeks and nothing changes, then maybe
it's time to find another one. I'm not saying you can learn everything in a
month, but you should at least notice something is changing and and understand
what exactly you are working on. If the teacher can't explain what exactly you
should improve (and how) other than "sound better" then likely it's not a good
teacher. I cannot stress how important is finding the right teacher. Two
lessons with right guy I found were much more effective than everything else I
did beforehand for years (youtube tutorials, lessons with other people, trial
and error). Don't try to be cheap: few weeks with someone who knows what they
are doing can take you further than months with someone who doesn't (obviously
I'm not saying that all good teachers are expensive and all cheap are bad.
What I'm saying is that there is SO MUCH DIFFERENCE between an average and a
great teacher that it's often worth paying for example twice as much). One
more thing about teachers is try to get demos of their students and see if you
like how they sing.

Another piece of advice: get used to recording and listening to yourself. It's
frustrating, but it's second best thing I did after finding a good teacher. I
can't imagine making progress on singing without recording. And you can record
yourself on a smartphone/laptop/whatever for practice purposes, no need to buy
any audio equipment.

------
amelius
Join a choir! Find one with suitable level, and with the kind of repertoire
that you like, and with a teacher that actually teaches the technical aspects.

But it doesn't really matter actually, because once in a choir you will meet
people, learn from other people, learn about other choirs, and it's quite
normal that people switch to different choirs every so often.

Also, people say that a choir is important for one's musical development, and
I have to agree (having done solo singing before singing in a choir).

PS: the first few sessions may feel overwhelming but this is quite normal and
most choir members have learned that new people will need some time to get
accustomed to singing. In my experience, most new people will sing along very
softly, and then suddenly after a few weeks they will become more confident
and more audible. This is totally normal.

PPS: until the covid19 situation is over, perhaps "online" lessons as others
have mentioned are a better idea.

------
AlwaysBCoding
I used to make MIDI maps of songs in Ableton and then record myself singing
along to it. The I would use the "convert audio melody to MIDI" command and
get a MIDI map of my audio recording and overlay it with what the song should
be. Gives you good visual feedback to correct things that you might not have
noticed ... Oh wow I'm coming up flat on that 5 every time. etc...

Also, second everyone who is saying get a voice coach. Very valuable in
surprising ways.

~~~
hnspo
Hi, this is unrelated but I came across an old thread here where you mentioned
you had used SportsRadar's API.

Just wanted to as you how much that cost (approximately)? If you don't mind
sharing

------
r83
Depends exactly what you want to do. As a singer/songwriter myself, I'd
recommend checking Eric Arceneaux on youtube for some beginner lessons.

[https://www.youtube.com/user/EricArceneaux](https://www.youtube.com/user/EricArceneaux)

Start with the warmups, work on breath fundamentals, and sing for the love of
singing :)

A _good_ vocal coach in person is fantastic, but expensive.

~~~
m_fayer
Not the op, but say you're looking to pick up a minor hobby with the goal of
being able to sing campfire/karoake basics such that it's a tolerable or maybe
even pleasant experience for the audience. Inspiration being "not-pretty"
talk-singing singer-songwriters - John Darnielle, Bill Callahan, Will Oldham,
etc.

Difficulty level: starting from utter scratch, middle-aged.

~~~
brooklyn_ashey
Find a group ( or start one!) that likes similar music or all types and sit in
a room ( or zoom?) and play these songs together- everyone goes around the
room taking solos, singing the tune, or whatever they want to do one time
through the form. You will get comfortable with that, and you will learn new
tunes!

------
shams93
Get a tuner app like you'd use to tune guitar then try singing something and
check how close is your C, using a tuner as a cheat can shave years of agony
compared to guessing.

~~~
JshWright
I'm not sure I understand your suggestion. Are you saying that someone should
be able to sing a particular note, with no other frame of reference? That's a
fun parlor trick, but doesn't really benefit you when it comes to singing
actual songs (where the pitch is all relative).

~~~
im3w1l
Yeah you should give yourself a reference, then after that sing various stuff
and check how close you are.

------
GSGBen
Get regular Skype lessons with Kegan from
[https://www.bohemianvocalstudio.com](https://www.bohemianvocalstudio.com). He
also has YouTube videos up so you can get a taste for what he focuses on
first. Don't worry if he doesn't sing in the exact style you want, because
it's all about foundational principles. It's life-changing stuff.

If that won't work for you and you're set on in-person lessons, try to find
someone who was never a natural singer, and had to learn everything from
scratch. They'll be able to pass on more than someone who started with a basic
natural ability.

~~~
scottmcf
Agreed. I trained under an opera singer in college, which couldn't be further
from the genres of music I play in, but the underlying principles of bel canto
singing were transformative for me.

------
pougetj
Plug for my friend’s “start-up”/company that I’ve used to find online piano
teachers to great success, but they also do vocals as well as many other
instruments: ToneRow.com.

She is a piano prof at Juilliard and I believe runs one of their
startup/business courses, so she’s put a lot of careful thought into this (but
I’m sure would appreciate feedback).

Disclosure: I am completely unaffiliated with her company, but have been using
it during this period of SIP. If you have any questions or feedback about TR,
feel free to reach out.

------
BjoernKW
Yes, getting a voice teacher is both the fastest and healthiest way to go
about this.

While there are plenty of resources available online and there are countless
self-taught singers it's easy to acquire unhealthy habits, which in turn might
also limit your progress and ability over time.

Latency can be a problem with anything music-related in an online setting,
though. Apart from that, singing is very much a physical activity and some
feedback from your body might be missed due to limitations of the medium.

Nevertheless, it certainly is a viable and tested approach (with many teachers
and even well-known singers offering personal training online) and worth a
try.

------
pombo
I have had a tutor in the past, but I have been doing Yousician's singing
course for a few months and I am quite happy with it:
[https://yousician.com/singing](https://yousician.com/singing). I like that
their software is able to detect if you are in tune or not.

------
songzme
I've been paying a tutor to teach me korean for a year with a twist. I told my
tutor to not teach me anything, all I want is honest feedback about how I
sound. What accent I make and how to say things a certain way. She just
listens and tells me the impression I give off.

With her feedback I am able to self adjust to reflect my personality when I
speak Korean.

Personally, I feel like getting a tutor to "teach you" something in the artsy
space may slow down your search to find your own voice that resonates with
you. Maybe you can pay a tutor to just "listen to you" and tell you what you
sound like to the other person.

On the other hand, if your goal is to just to imitate other singers, I would
suggest getting a tutor to teach you like many other are suggesting.

------
paul7986
You can learn how to sing, but either your a good to great singer people enjoy
hearing via a talent your born with or not. A few amount of people in a crowd
of 100 possess such talent. No matter how many voice lessons you take the
tone/quality of your voice isnt going to change.

Not trying to discourage anyone, but if your goal is to become a singer people
outside of family/friends enjoy hearing for free or money learn how to sing on
key then sing for others. You will know then and there by their response to
your singing if you have that gift or not. Though many with that gift are born
with perfect pitch and can sing on key innately (lucky ones).

~~~
brooklyn_ashey
Paul, this absolutely breaks my heart. Anyone can learn to sing in tune. I’ve
taught kids and adults who are “tone deaf” to listen and sing/play in tune in
weeks to months. It isn’t a magic trick, just listening and singing and
listening and singing. Like algorithms- you break it down. There is no such
thing as a bad voice— the best voice is when you sound like yourself: natural.
No one is born knowing how to sing. we, all of us learn to sing by listening
and imitating and singing a long—- its hours of practice. We are not born
knowing how to talk either. Please try to sing again and don’t let the haters
get you down.

~~~
paul7986
So you have taught someone to change the tone/quality of the voice they were
given to the point where ppl pay to hear them sing?

A great To distinct singing voice like Kelly Clarkson, Norah Jones, Karen
Carpenter, Louis Armstrong, Barbara Streisand, Robert Plant, Allison Kraus,
Carrie Underwood, Jennifer Hudson, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion and many other
popular singers is a innate or god given talent. No vocal coach is going to
change that...they can help your pitch and breathe but they can't change your
tone/quality of voice that compels people to want and or pay you to hear you
sing!

~~~
brooklyn_ashey
I'm with you on "born with": Karen Carpenter, Barbara Streisand and Whitney...
we will never have another of any of these ever again. But Louis Armstrong?--
a great great singer and incredible, towering musician by any measure--
doesn't have a naturally "beautiful" voice like them-- he basically plays a
kind of voice trumpet using his vocal chords-- which is his personal,
developed style- and it is SO compelling and multi-textured. That is practice,
baby! That is being comfortable with your instrument and your own stylistic
ideas and making stuff up within a style and context. Robert Plant? That is
all about the gut of it- the raw impulse. The rock n roll. It's his commitment
to the story and the song, but I won't at all agree that he was born with a
gorgeous or even naturally interesting voice-- but he has developed a very
clear artistic one-- developed-- practiced and imagined. Bob Dylan? He compels
a lot of people to buy records and tickets. Tom Waits? Great singing is
stylistic and conceptual artistry like Picasso or Sophie Calle. Most important
thing about the singing: being comfortable with yourself and accepting who you
actually are and loving the imperfections. That is so difficult, I know - it
is what we all practice all the time. Once you feel comfortable- it is all
about being vulnerable (being totally cool with making mistakes and being
imperfect and unbeautiful) in front of many people and making them feel like
you trust them with your mistakes and your imperfections and your story.
That's the whole thing and the hardest part.

Incidentally, no matter how beautiful the "born with" part, some of those who
are most "born with" that impossibly gorgeous tone quality have a much harder
time than the rest of us with the accepting of themselves and their
imperfections (few, if any in the vocal department) and being vulnerable and
ok with who they are. In fact, in the case of Carpenter and Whitney- it killed
them —they were unable to sustain this vulnerability.

To your question: "So you have taught someone to change the tone/quality of
the voice they were given to the point where ppl pay to hear them sing?" Well,
not to _change_ it fundamentally, but to embody it and learn to enhance it and
present it with skill and generosity so that others (collaborators, audience
members) will be compelled/motivated/helped by its vulnerability, truth,
intention and whatever it's about-- this is essentially my job as a teacher of
music. Just an FYI--- music is not about who pays to hear it- that is not the
mark of its power or greatness. Does it change your life? That's it! (People
pay for some crazy bad stuff.)

~~~
paul7986
If you have rockstar And or making living off of being a singer go dream but
with reality in mind. You either have that gift that compels people to
stop/drop (also pay to)and listen to you or not.

Also, Louis Armstrong has a very distinct voice and no one I've heard sings a
Wonderful World better.

I pursued my dream as a kid I started to hear songs in my head I hadn't heard
before. That led me to Nashville to finish college and pursue my Songwriting
dream. There you have to be the best of the best and many of those don't make
it as they didn't get their break. While pursuing my dream I played/performed
in many guitar circles amongst 5 to 10 songwriters. People will let you know
if they want to hear you again vs. the next guy or my girlfriend at the time
who usually was the best in each circle we played in. That doesn't mean I
don't write Or perform anymore and enjoy it..I'm always just a realistic
person.

------
zeroxfe
You might enjoy this app I recently wrote:
[https://pitchy.ninja](https://pitchy.ninja) to assist you in your journey.

~~~
alok-g
Looks nice. I did but barely hear a sound during the 'listen' segment (had
tried on the phone with full volume).

------
MilnerRoute
I was in choirs growing up, and the one thing any singing teacher will start
you with is: learning how to breathe from your diaphragm.

If you need a place to get started, you might just look for a few YouTube
videos or tutorials about that. It gives you extra volumes of breath, so you
can belt out the notes and hold them longer. Everything else follows from
that.

------
ck425
Find a teacher. Generally as a rule Classical/Lyrical/MT styles require more
technique than Rock or Jazz (they require technique to not hurt themselves but
the style aspect is personal and harder to teach) so I'd recommend getting a
teacher who knows the former well.

~~~
brooklyn_ashey
Classical/Lyrical/MT (what is MT?musical theater??)styles do not require
"more" technique. They require _different_ techniques that have a long
pedagogical history. The style is not harder to teach. Classical music has
many styles (Renaissance, Classical, Romantic, Chanson, Bel Canto...) and they
are all as teachable as popular styles. I guess this bothered me because there
is this incorrect hierarchy people ascribe to classical- like it's a higher
art or something. This is misleading. I'm a classical musician. If anything,
the "training" makes people think they need to ask permission for everything
and keeps them chained to someone else's ideas and removes a lot of their own
confidence. Then, they spend the rest of their life trying to undo this damage
while they try to sing show tunes with some kind of relaxation "of the street"
and without constant judging of themselves. See: Dawn Upshaw's popular musical
recordings or Renee Flemming's.

------
alexilliamson
For everyone saying "find a teacher": what specifically will the teacher will
pick up on, that I can't pick up on my own listening voice recordings of
myself?

The situation is, I've known that I should find a teacher for many years.
However, I can be quite stubborn and have instead been recording myself
playing guitar/singing for the past several years. With debatable progress.

I know I should find a teacher, but what should I look for? My guitar is
fine.. I've played since I was 12 and had a lot of lessons back then. So I
feel better about self-studying guitar.

I've also been singing for that long, but without any actual instruction.
Help!

~~~
stannic_pidgeon
> what specifically will the teacher pick up on Singing is not at all
> intuitive, and it is likely that the actions to take towards a goal will be
> counter productive and place an upper limit on your progress.

For example, if you try to sing a note on the top of your range you will
likely resort to "muscling" the note by adding tension, but this approach if
far from optimal, and will limit the amount of range you can add.

This is coming from me as a semi-professional classical vocalist, but I will
also admit that my advice is likely much less useful for people interested in
the kind of singing common in country or indie/folk music, as these kinds of
music require much less technical complexity in their vocal production.

------
puranjay
You NEED to find a vocal coach. At least for the first few months. If you try
and learn through online courses, you will never learn what you're doing
wrong.

Worse, without the feedback of a teacher, you can easily neglect a major
weakness, develop a bad habit without knowing it, or even destroy your vocal
chords.

Quit seeing the vocal coach if it's too expensive and you're confident you can
do the exercises on your own

I also encourage everyone reading this to try and learn singing. It's
surprising what even a month of practice can do to your voice.

I truly believe that "bad singers" don't exist.

------
wildrhythms
Are you looking to improve in one area specifically? Placement? Range? Sight-
singing ability? I agree with another commenter that a voice teacher will help
get you started. I studied contemporary musical theatre in college, studied
music and took classical voice lessons from a young age, and
singing/harmonizing with a group was the most impactful on my own experience.
Take a look at local colleges offering sight-singing and similar voice
classes.

~~~
downerending
Personally, I just sing or hum along with music, and if there was one thing I
could improve, it'd be the ability to sing in tune. I do the "finger in your
ear" trick, but it's still quite difficult to hit a note right, or move
between several without sounding like a trombone (glissando).

I absolutely marvel at what pop singers can do with ornaments, seemingly
hitting a whole series of notes in rapid succession, in tune. Maybe they're
using an autotuner? :-(

~~~
rectang
Even if you have a good sense of pitch, melismatic singing may be beyond you.
Very few people can sound good singing Stevie Wonder covers.

For what it's worth, I've improved my ability to sing with accurate pitch, by
imagining the pitch in my head before I sing it.

~~~
downerending
Huh. Thanks.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melisma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melisma)

------
29athrowaway
Part of it is ear training. GNU Solfege helps with that part.

------
alok-g
Anyone having experience with Sing&See software for this?

[https://www.singandsee.com/](https://www.singandsee.com/)

There's also this which is useful but not great.

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tadaoyamao...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tadaoyamaoka.vocalpitchmonitor&hl=en_US)

------
n2dasun
I joined a barbershop chorus on a whim 12 years ago, and it was infinitely
beneficial. You can generally find a local chapter to rehearse with, everyone
is helpful, and you only have to become an official member if you want to
compete

[https://www.barbershop.org/](https://www.barbershop.org/)

------
bbulkow
I have learned most things myself my entire life, and I would even say get a
teacher. there are a set of things you have to know about tone and thinking in
tune and how to practice. once you get the key concepts, which might take a
few months say 10 lessons, you can do the rest yourself.

~~~
quickthrower2
Sounds like golf then

------
mellosouls
Whatever you end up doing wrt tutoring, prioritise _now_ your vocal health,
and your singing (?) while you are young.

[https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/taking-care-your-
voice](https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/taking-care-your-voice)

~~~
rectang
Depending on the style, this can be difficult. Human audiences respond to
vocals which convey passion. A lot of times, passionate singing strains the
voice.

Singing judiciously limits you creatively in the short term. Singing
passionately can limit you creatively in the long term, as you burn out your
instrument.

------
aczerepinski
Get a teacher for sure so that you can learn to sing without damaging your
vocal chords. I’m not a singer but my impression as an outsider is that opera
singers are particularly likely to know the physical/anatomical concerns,
since they learn to project without microphones.

------
laurieg
I started vocal lessons 9 months ago to improve my singing. I'm no expert but
I'll share a little advice.

Try out a handful of teachers and choose someone who matches your goals and
levels.

Try to practice little and often. Don't overdo it.

Expect progress to take a long time. Of the order of years.

Good luck.

------
swamy_g
Is there an app that can teach you proper vocals?

------
ecoled_ame
sing with the voice god gave you. listen to indie music. your voice doesn’t
have to be perfect to be good. practice all the time.

------
p0nce
Nothing mattered or made a significant difference until I found a good vocal
teacher.

------
nso95
Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy

------
swyx
learn vocals _to do what_? what are your goals?

~~~
scarecrowbob
This is likely the most important question.

I've been singing semi-professionally for the last two decades asas part of a
wide variety of musical endeavors.

What you need to do to sing in a choir is very different than what you need to
do to front a blues band. Singing in a broadway-style musical is very
different than singing, say, bluegrass harmonies.

There is a lot of overlap, but how you approach learning stuff varies quite a
bit.

------
spudlyo
If you want to learn to sing well, you're in for a lot of work. It means
practice, having a teacher, unlearning potentially years of bad habits, and
being disciplined. I like to write and record songs with a friend as a fun
hobby, and since he hates the sound of his own voice, I got stuck with singing
duties. I've learned to accept the rather frustrating limitations of my voice
and technique, and instead focused on using my engineering skills to improve
how my vocal tracks sound on recordings. I was able to learn this stuff on my
own.

* Tuning

Good tuning software is a vocalists best friend, even if you don't struggle
with pitch issues. Don't like the timbre of your voice? Good tuning software
has the ability to manipulate the "formant" of a voice, which if used in
conjunction with some pitch shifting can make a woman's voice sound like a
man's, or vice versa. Tuning software is also invaluable for visualizing the
notes that you're singing. I use tuning software to help me compose and
finalize my vocal melodies. I start with my scratch vocal take and push notes
around until I have a consistent result I'm happy with, melodically speaking.
These tuned scratch takes become "guide tracks" that I can have in my
headphones while recording new takes. You can also turn them into MIDI tracks
to aid in composing other parts.

* Comping

Comping is where you create a good composite track out of a bunch of mediocre
ones. I do like 8 takes of each part, and then I pitch correct all of them so
they conform to my official melody, referencing my guide track as needed. I
also clean up the timing of sung notes at this stage (another great use of
tuning software) to make sure that I'm not too far off the beat. Small slop is
OK.

I have 8 tracks now of tuned vocals that are mostly bound to the grid, which
makes it easier to select the best bits from each track to create a composite.
I try to focus on the notes/lines that convey the most emotion and feeling, I
comp those 8 tracks down to 3 or 4 decent ones. The best one I save for my
lead vocal, the rest I use for doubles and harmony parts.

* Double up

Choruses need big vocals right? You can use your extra tuned and tightened
tracks to double (or triple, quadruple) up your vocals and pan them left/right
to make them sound bigger and better. Because they're unique tracks and not
copies this will sound wide, and because you left in some minor timing slop,
it will sound tight, but not robotic. You can also use doubles in non-chorus
parts to emphasize certain words or phrases.

* Harmony

Harmony tracks can really sweeten and thicken a vocal. It'll definitely help
to learn some music theory to understand the right notes for your harmony
parts, but you can also just do it by ear. I take a one of my comps, and push
the notes around with tuning software so it becomes a harmony against the lead
vocal. Sometimes these extreme tuned artificial harmonies can sound robotic,
but if you blend them in subtly and/or play with the formants they can work
well. If not, you can use them as a guide track to re-record organic parts,
but that's more work. Use harmony parts the same way you might use doubles.

------
MrGando
I've been playing Piano for ~28 years, almost went professional (Jazz) but
ended up doing engineering. My advice would be to find a teacher, if you know
nothing about it you need a teacher that corrects you so that you don't
develop bad habits. Once you're no longer a novice, you can start learning
other things on your own.

When looking for a teacher, I wouldn't try to find "the best" or "most
virtuoso" around, but what works for you. Try several teachers, get some
sessions with 2-3 and find which one is the one that motivates you the most,
and understands you the most. A teacher is like a coach and a partner in an
adventure... the most important thing is that they can make you progress and
keep you motivated.

Good luck :)

~~~
pen2l
Where does one even begin to look for a teacher? Where do these guys publicize
their services?

For context, I'm an amateur guitarist with an interest in singing Sufjan
Stevens songs.

~~~
CSSer
Usually local music shops or chains that sell gear also employ or rent space
to instructors. Qualifications can vary a lot, which is why I strongly support
the suggestion others have made to try out multiple teachers.

For lessons particularly, err on the side of thinking you’re not the problem.
You’re paying hourly for this, and if you don’t click with the teacher it
could be fairly expensive to “make it work”. Some people are also great
artists but terrible instructors. That wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for
the fact that they are also often completely ignorant of that fact.

------
redis_mlc
I'm in show biz, so here's some pro advice:

\- decide if you have the confidence to sing or not. (Some intrumentalists
don't.)

\- after you want to sing, get a vocal coach. Singing for a career is the
hardest musician job. Your whole lifestyle needs to accommodate your voice wrt
food, rest, recovery. If you can't afford a coach, watch some intro Youtube
videos and practise for a few couple months.

Here are the problems:

\- every vocalist you know has had vocal cord surgery. Even Band-maid. Bon
Jovi had a nightmare of vocal problems.

\- because they yell at the mike, instead of talking to the mike musically,
and letting the PA amplify it. At the turn of the 1900s, this was well-known.
Somehow that fact was lost in the 1960s until today.

Seriously, get a coach or you will destroy your vocal cords and prematurely
end your career. The stress of deciding if you and your band can perform the
next booking or not is shattering.

(There's a video of Justin Bieber on Youtube talking to his mom and manager
backstage about throat problems and what to do next, with 20,000 paying,
screaming fans outside waiting. Talk about stress.)

------
som33
You should check out sygyt.com and get a copy of Voce Vista video.

They have a frequency analyzer that's great for looking at your voice output
and comparing it against notes.

[https://www.sygyt.com/en/](https://www.sygyt.com/en/)

There's also a cool java app for monitoring your tone

[https://www.singtherightnote.com/singtherightnote.zip](https://www.singtherightnote.com/singtherightnote.zip)

------
jariel
Singing is not something that someone teaches you, it's just something you do
because you're inspired to in the moment.

You need to just sing. Sing along with your favourite songs, sing with heart.

Then ... you may either want to get a bit of coaching, possibly sing with a
choir.

Most singers were really quite good before they had formal coaching, and many
have never had any coaching at all.

One of the more challenging things is pitch ... some people sing out of tune,
have no idea, and it sounds bad. Oddly, this is something a 'voice coach' will
have difficulty fixing. This tends to be something that people 'have' or they
'don't' \- it can be learned surely, but it's oddly not a 'singing specific'
issue. Playing around on a piano, singing the notes, trying to get them to
match. So if you have a pitch problem, it will be a separate can of worms, but
the more musical exposure you have, via anything, the better you'll get.

~~~
ck425
This is bad advice. Pitch does seem to be something you have or not (research
suggests most kids are pitch perfect and lose it to various extents) but the
other parts of singing well are highly technical skills and a teacher will
help significantly. Larynx placement, anchoring, muscle relaxation, breath
control... etc are all difficult skills to master.

There's a reason that so many pop/rock singers ruin their voices, it's because
they don't get training.

~~~
jariel
This is a little misleading, to the point of being wrong with respect to the
'health warning'.

First - unambiguously, the vast majority of people who sing learned to do so
reasonably well before any hint of real coaching, other than possibly little
bits that a student/church choir teacher may be able to help with.

It's misrepresentative to hint that an amateur singer, singing occasionally
for fun, will somehow how run into trouble, physically, without this. In fact,
the majority of people who 'sing a lot' will never have such problems. I sang
in a 16 part Jazz choir in my youth, and have always been involved in music,
and I don't even recall anyone in my circle losing their voice or having voice
trouble (I don't doubt that it's possible), and I don't recall anyone getting
specific voice lessons either, that said being part of a choir helps, but we
weren't hugely focused on technique in that kind of specificity. Most non-
famous pop act singers have not had any real formal training - it's simply
unnecessary.

Singing is a little bit like running, you just need a pair of shoes, if you do
it a lot and enjoy it, you will get better and it will mostly come naturally.
If you are part of any kind of singing group, like a choir, you'll pick up
some really simple things that will take you a really long way. If you want to
get even better, you can get some coaching, but you don't need it.

The other thing I will add is that a 'singing coach' might move you into a
more formal way of singing that might clash with your own creative
sensibilities. Many old-school rock stars sing 'terribly' from a technical
perspective, but they didn't know better, it's just 'how they do it' and it
enabled them to have their own unique flavour. A singing coach early on who
moved them into a more 'choral' way of singing ... might have taken that
uniqueness away.

In every children's choir, there are a handful of great singers who haven't
taken highly specific instruction with respect to technique, singing is
natural. Probably a 10 minute, basic youtube instruction would go quite far in
terms of basic things just as it might be for amateur running tips.

Big caveat: in my own personal experience, everyone grew up with music i.e.
choir, instruments, etc. which will lead to different outcomes and
perspectives than someone who has absolutely no exposure to music.

