
3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average - LiweiZ
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/health/milk-children-height-1.4149832
======
schoen
Some non-dairy milks are labeled "not a substitute for infant formula". This
is important because infants fed them in place of formula or breast milk have
suffered severe malnutrition and even died. Babies' and small children's
nutritional requirements are different from adults'.

This study is looking at "children aged two to six" (ages at which formula or
breast milk would no longer be necessary to sustain life), and the article
highlights that non-dairy milks' nutritional content is different from dairy
milk, which may have developmental consequences. One possibility is that non-
dairy milk meant to consumption by small children should be fortified more (or
differently), or that vegan diets for children commonly require more
supplementation. I think there's evidence that fortification of dairy milk has
had great health benefits, while apparently for particular purposes non-dairy
milks are starting out at a disadvantage even if they have some health
benefits in other ways.

In the course of my first decade of veganism, I developed significant D and
B₁₂ deficiencies which I've recently successfully cured with dietary
supplements. I don't think that vegan advocates will do ourselves or our cause
any favors by pretending that these deficiencies are rare or difficult to
acquire; in fact, they're relatively common and often associated with a vegan
diet. (I'm thinking of all the effort that John Robbins spent pointing out
that adults can easily get adequate proteins and amino acids from vegetable
sources, because this is something people reflexively call into doubt. From
what I've heard since, I think he was right on that point, but the same can't
be said for B₁₂!) The good news is that these deficiencies also easy to detect
and, for many people, they're also easy to cure.

When we're talking about childhood nutrition, the stakes are higher, and it's
essential to be better informed and more attentive. A few years of deficiency
in these vitamins in my 30s has probably not hurt me for the long run, but it
might be a different story if the same thing had happened when I was three or
four.

~~~
Swizec
> while apparently for particular purposes non-dairy milks are starting out at
> a disadvantage even if they have some health benefits in other ways

It's almost like alternative milks have around 30 calories per cup and real
milk has 160 calories. That's a _huge_ difference because you're likely to
give your child "a glass of milk", not ask them to drink 5 glasses because the
alt milk has basically no nutritional value.

Source: my gf swears by alt milks so I have a fridge full of them. I borrow
them sometimes when I run out of real milk.

PS: Yes I'm comparing to "full" fat 3.5% milk. Not that watered down stuff
that seems to be super popular for some reason. And while I'd love to use real
full fat milk, 3.5% is the most I have easy access to in the absence of owning
a cow.

~~~
schoen
It varies quite a bit: Silk Unsweetened Almondmilk is 30 kcal/cup, while their
Unsweetened Soymilk is 80 kcal/cup (still less than dairy milk, but by a
factor of 2 instead of over 5). As maxerickson pointed out, sweetened ones
also have more calories, but that's not necessarily a great nutritional
improvement (e.g., Silk Chocolate Soymilk is 120 kcal/cup, with a whole bunch
of refined sugar in there).

I think you can choose a nutrition profile quite a bit closer to dairy milk in
many respects if you specifically want to, but it's going to depend on how
your particular product was processed, sweetened, and fortified.

------
empath75
It's sort of criminal that they're even allowed to label bean juice as milk.

Im not 100% convinced of the necessity of drinking milk or that height is
particularly a good proxy for health as a metric.

But vegans should be under no illusions that almond milk or soy milk is any
kind of milk substitute. And if they're giving it to infants instead of
_breastfeeding_ or formula, it's borderline neglect.

I think that there a valid uses for them - soy milk is good for lower calorie
lattes for example, and almond milk is delicious in oatmeal. But as a source
of nutrition for growing children, they're pretty poor.

~~~
moskie
> But vegans should be under no illusions that almond milk or soy milk is any
> kind of milk substitute.

When it comes to feeding infants, sure, but my usage of soy milk as an adult
is definitely as a substitute for milk. I use it in virtually all the places
cow's milk is typically used: in my cereal, coffee, mixed with chocolate
syrup, in most recipes that call for milk.... No need to get so up in arms
about call things like soy milk a "milk" drink/substitute. In the vast
majority of cases, it functions exactly the same.

~~~
jonknee
If you use tofu in place of beef it is not correct to call it "soy beef". Milk
is a specific thing, no kind of milk comes from beans.

~~~
colanderman
"Milk" has been a generic term ever since coconut milk has existed.

Heck, Wiktionary even cites 14th and 15th century uses of the term "almond
milk". [1]

Not to mention "milk of magnesia", which isn't even a foodstuff.

Just because you personally have not heard the non-dairy sense used until
recently does not mean it is incorrect or should be "illegal" as the GP
suggests.

[1]
[https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/milk](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/milk)

------
eagsalazar2
Lumping all of soy, rice, almond, goat milk as "non-cow" is pretty unfair to
goat milk.

Does their study indicate all milks in "other" independently showed similar
difference in height of 1.5cm? Or are they saying the average for all other
was -1.5cm in which case maybe kids on almond milk were -2cm and breast milk
+1cm? And goat's milk some third number? My strong hunch is it is the latter
in which case the 1.5cm is completely meaningless.

Here is another clue, the one example they give of nutritional differences
cites soy milk's low protein while failing to mention that goat's milk has
_more_ protein than cow's milk.

Didn't read the original research but either the research is bad and possibly
biased or this is very misleading reporting.

[edit] removed mention of breast milk since article didn't say that

~~~
nbanks
I suspect that goat milk would be a reasonable alternative but the sample size
was too small to draw any conclusions.

~~~
eagsalazar2
Then the study should have omitted any reference to Goat milk at all. Why did
they just include Diet Coke on the list and then afterward say there wasn't
enough data to exclude it? Still seems like bs.

------
emmelaich
The girl pictured (blue eyed, fair hair) is especially suited to cow's milk -
it's in her genes. That's how people were able to live north of certain
latitudes; by cattle meat and milk.

Perplexing.

[edit: link to HN discussion on the lactose tolerant mutation]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4710596](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4710596)

------
llovan
The average height has been increasing steadily all over the world for the
last century or so, perhaps since industrialization. Though malnourishment
played a part in not letting people reach their genetic potential in height,
there is evidence linking taller heights with disease such as cancer and
shorter lifespans.

I do not think it has been conclusively proven that taller statures are
desirable. I would think adequate nutrient intake from a variety of food
sources that leads to a sufficient and healthy height would be better than
attempting to maximize for greater height at the expense of health in later
years.

~~~
imron
> I do not think it has been conclusively proven that taller statures are
> desirable

Not conclusively proven but there have been studies done that suggest taller
people earn more money [0].

Taller people are also generally considered more attractive.

So there are at least 2 factors where taller people have an advantage in life.

0: [http://www.businessinsider.com/tall-people-are-richer-and-
su...](http://www.businessinsider.com/tall-people-are-richer-and-
successful-2015-9)

~~~
llovan
Yeah I've seen those but I was referring more to the potential health
downsides not earnings possibilities:
[http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/07/height_and_longevity_the_research_is_clear_being_tall_is_hazardous_to_your.html)

------
lucidguppy
[https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/mar/dairy.htm](https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/mar/dairy.htm)

>IGF-1 promotes undesirable growth too—like cancer growth and accelerated
aging. IGF-1 is one of the most powerful promoters of cancer growth ever
discovered for cancers of the breast, prostate, lung, and colon.6
Overstimulation of growth by IGF-1 leads to premature aging too—and reducing
IGF-1 levels is “anti-aging.”7

------
cjbprime
Your regular reminder that it's almost never worth it to pay attention to one
single study, because of publication bias, lack of multiple hypothesis
correction, and the many other ways for a study -- even one performed to best
practices -- to be incorrect.

Wait for the meta-study, especially if the result is at all topical or
exciting.

------
mping
I've read somewhere that cow milk accelerates growth in the first few years
but the other children will eventually catch up. We would need a longer study
to validated this.

------
kawsper
There is this article[0] from 21 hours ago that mentions that children should
eat an egg a day to grow taller. Childrens height has surely been a popular
topic the last 24 hours.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40158358](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40158358)

------
baursak
Are there similar studies of kids' heights comparing vegetarian/vegan and meat
diets?

------
danielmain
I would change the title of the article: "Human kids drinking Milk of a Cow
are 1.5 cm taller than normal ones"

Who knows what kind of hormones the Diary Industry puts on the Cow-Milk you
are drinking.

Cow=> Not your mother, not your Milk!

~~~
zocoi
The title is a bit misleading. Those 3-year-olds are 1.5cm shorter than
average growth percentile. It doesn't mention the effect on adolescent height
on the same diet, since most adult growth spurt happens on teenager age.

------
marricks
Is shorter always bad? With all the growth hormones given to cows it'd make
sense some would go through to the milk and likely affect kids, wouldn't
really be a good thing...

~~~
ThrustVectoring
Yeah. All else equal, I'd rather have a taller child. If I could have invested
$1M in the S&P 500 at birth or be seven feet tall, I'd take the height.

~~~
imron
7 feet is in the range where you'll encounter daily inconveniences for being
tall - from having difficulty finding clothes and shoes that fit, to always
having to duck your head, to having feet always sticking off the end of the
bed, to having to squash in to bus, plane and car seats - or you'll have to
pay a premium to avoid such things.

I'm 6'3 and still get that to some degree. I like being this tall, but I think
6'1 or 6'2 are probably around the ideal height to reap the benefits of being
tall, without being too affected by the drawbacks.

------
wslh
Take it anecdotically or not. My two daughters almost never consumed milk
because of allergies and have an average height and will be taller than their
past generations women.

~~~
ovao
I believe the only possible way to take that is anecdotally.

~~~
wslh
I don't think so. Have you read [https://www.gwern.net](https://www.gwern.net)
? Also scientific research is validated much later with different studies,
including meta-analysis studies.

