

Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work? - sachitgupta
http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/could-the-rebellion-against-traditional-publishing-actually-work

======
stillhatin
I think Sebastian really _is_ the next Tim Ferriss, but not at all in a good
way. I think he's all talk and almost no results, and he's trying to spin that
into a success that then justifies him tooting his own horn as a "strategist"
(what the fuck?). All over his blog, all over his comments on HN, he makes
himself out to be this amazing business guru, juggling 27 world-changing
projects at a time, upending major industries with a stroke of his pen. This
is from a comment in this thread:

 _In the last four weeks, I was able to hire like 30-40 people or so, keep six
or so projects running, do a deal with a top hotel chain and top jeweler, put
out a book in a week, lead a struggle for reform against traditional
publishing, made $38,500, shot a bunch of videos, had a bunch of fun, hired an
architect to build an orphanage in Ulaanbaatar, and so on._

I call bullshit on all of it. Well, almost all of it; maybe he had fun.
Sebastian is always waving his hands and declaring things like this, but
there's just no evidence. None. Zip, zilch. Why doesn't he ever post any proof
of his results? Why no links to any of these projects, no naming of the major
companies he's helping change? He clearly has no problem with self-promotion,
so it's not out of a sense of modesty. Anyone who has ever hired knows that if
you managed to hire 30-40 people in a month, you don't have time for anything
else. My guess is that he emailed 30-40 people on the internet and maybe hired
one or two for some small contract work.

Even in this whole thing with S&S, he seems to miss the possibility that not
only might they not really care that they lost him, they might be _glad_.
Maybe they took a hard look at the drivel he was churning out and realized
that they were better off with the relationship severed.

Enough talking, Sebastian. Put your head down and fucking build something,
then you can write a book in ten or twenty years and tell us about it. We
don't need another vapid self-promoter selling books exhorting people to
manifest themselves to greatness.

And if I'm way off and you really are what you portray yourself as, post some
fucking proof. Don't just give us the old "you're free to believe me or not"
bullshit that every scammer says. You want some real personal brand equity?
All it takes is some proof of the results you're constantly harping on.

~~~
lionhearted
This is the most important line in your comment -

> Put your head down and fucking build something, then you can write a book in
> ten or twenty years and tell us about it.

Because it shows how you think. "How dare you! Put your head down and grind
_for 20 years_!! That's _how it's done!_ "

No, really. It doesn't take grinding for 10 to 20 years to make a meaningful
impact on the world.

> And if I'm way off and you really are what you portray yourself as, post
> some fucking proof.

Ok, I tell you what. How much are you going to donate to my orphanage if I
post some proof - a contract, a bank statement, something like that. You tell
me what proof is, but you also tell me what you're going to do to eat shit
after I give you your proof, and you're on.

~~~
stillhatin
Sad. You won't stop running your mouth about how impressive you are, but when
asked for some proof or evidence of any kind, you immediately go on the
defensive. Why don't we already have the evidence? It's definitely not
modesty. And the publicity would only help your projects. The only reason you
haven't posted any kind of proof or evidence of your outlandish claims of
building an empire is because you're all hot air. All hat, no cattle.

So I'll donate whatever you like to your orphanage, if it exists. As in, if
you have an orphanage that you own or created or sponsor at least mostly by
yourself. But you don't. You probably have plans for one, but that's all.

Seriously, you're a smart guy with a lot of passion and ideas. But you haven't
actually done anything, and every time I read a word of what you've written, I
roll my eyes because you're such a blowhard. And with no justification.

The biggest thing in all of this S&S story that makes me think the publishing
industry might be on the verge of collapse is that they agreed to publish the
first book of a self-described strategist with no track record, no experience,
no nothing. But it sounds like you helped them solve that problem.

~~~
lionhearted
> So I'll donate whatever you like to your orphanage, if it exists.

How much?

When?

Write that up and sign in your real name.

It's not built yet. I just hired an architect for $17,000. What do you want to
wager here, say, $1,000 of your money?

You can write the check directly to her. She's got all those wonderful
credentials and degrees that you worship.

Write it up and sign it, man, and it's on. The reason I don't post company
names by the way is I'm talking about going to whorehouses, doing videos
without my shirt on, etc. If I was working with, say, Goldman Sachs, you think
they'd like me publicly posting that on the internet for your sake?

Anyways. Duh. But if you're in for a grand, I'll go get my architect's info
for you, and you can have a nice conversation with her. Write it and sign it
your own name, put it into escrow contingent on... whatever stage you like of
the orphanage getting there. It's for charity. I'll put my money where my
mouth is, you do the same.

~~~
stillhatin
Haha...awesome. So there actually is no orphanage. What a surprise.

~~~
DennisP
Hmm. Although I haven't watched the videos myself, and am reserving judgement,
I'll note that your own quote says he "hired an architect to build an
orphanage in Ulaanbaatar," which is exactly what he repeated in the above
comment.

------
russell
Charlie Stross, top SF author and HNer, has a series of articles describing
the publishing process: [http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-
static/2010/04/common-m...](http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-
static/2010/04/common-misconceptions-about-pu-1.html). He argues that printing
and distributing books is only a small part of the process. A polished book
still needs literary agents,editors, proof readers, etc. Recommended for the
curious.

~~~
Turing_Machine
Others have pointed out that all of those services can be purchased for a flat
rate, i.e. without handing over 90% of the revenue from your book.

------
lhnz
Yes, "the rebellion" against traditional publishing might actually work. But
whose rebellion are you actually talking about? Most people that are turning
to self-publishing are doing this simply because it is a cheaper way of
getting their books out, not as a rebellion at traditional publishers... On
the other hand, you've clearly got no choice: few are going to want to publish
your work now, so how can what you're doing be considered a rebellion? It
appears to be your only option.

Aside from this, I'm pretty sure what I'm looking at is an extremely
weird/negative way of marketing your book. However, this might actually work.
I'm honestly feeling pretty curious in what you've written...

That said, I'd like to point out:

1\. Why are you attempting to market your book using your private business
drama? The whole sale depends on me trusting in your personality, acumen and
ethic. You're not coming across as a strategic thinker. You're coming across
as a hothead. Pause and think about that.

2\. Why are you picking a fight with a far stronger animal than yourself? Be
realistic: settle the score and do something of value. Don't start fights that
you're not resourced to fight. Don't.

~~~
lionhearted
> 2\. Why are you picking a fight with a far stronger animal than yourself? Be
> realistic: settle the score and do something of value.

You're talking about rational self-interest, I'm talking about forcing an
industry that's crucial and operating badly to step their game up.

It's not rational self-interested, that's for damn sure. It's a principled
stand.

(Also, this is just a hobby, I have multiple day jobs.)

~~~
lhnz
> I'm talking about forcing an industry that's crucial and operating badly to
> step their game up.

No you're not. They're not banging on your door to work with you. They don't
care about your business and they certainly won't want to hear your advice.
Self-publishing your book is not some big, noble game-changing stand that is
going to topple the publishing industry. A disinterested observer might call
all of this a tantrum...

It's simply not that easy to get people to "step their game up". It generally
requires higher status: a powerful negotiating position, sense of shared
purpose or dictatorial leadership over them. You have neither. What you do
have is your own time and your own life. Use this wisely: don't waste any of
your effort reacting to people in this way. If you truly wish to get them to
"step their game up" then create a startup and directly compete with them.
Self-publishing will take a while to scale but a startup could act as a
catalyst...

Distilled, here's my advice:

When you're angry at people but lack an actionable plan on how to deal with
them ignore them. Instead: find what you can control and use it to create
value.

------
nbashaw
Why does this guy keep getting upvoted on HN?

~~~
phoboslab
I read a few paragraphs of this blog post, but gave up eventually. I didn't
understand what he was trying to say at all. I thought this was because
English is not my first language, but after looking at a few other posts in
his blog, I'm now convinced it's just bad writing.

Everything is horribly out of context. I don't know any of names mentioned.
This post - his whole blog really - sounds more like a (badly written) email
to the people who have more insight in this exact situation.

Word of advice: if you write a blog, don't assume your readers read all your
previous posts. Took me a few years to realize this myself.

~~~
lionhearted
Didn't realize this one would get so popular.

It started with this -

[http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-simon-
and...](http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-simon-and-
schuester-ceo-carolyn-reidy)

~~~
peterarmstrong
Sebastian, I really liked: "The book isn’t right. It’s like, 20% mine, 20%
Matthew’s, 10% Jim’s, and 50% corporate clusterfuck."

This was why I'd tried to convince you to use Leanpub :) Obviously your
current book is done, but if you do another book I'd encourage you to use the
Lean Publishing process of publishing a small in-progress version and
iterating in public with feedback from your readers...

------
kghose
I read about 50% of the letter ([http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-
letter-to-simon-and...](http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-
simon-and-schuester-ceo-carolyn-reidy))

What I felt was unprofessional behavior on the part of the publisher was not
sticking to deadlines for payment.

However, I did feel that the author complaining his ideas for jacket design
were not taken seriously is a bit diva-like behavior.

I do think, that with all the software tools we have out (spell checker,
grammar checkers etc) it should be quite possible to self-publish (using a
print on demand service for example, and for ebooks, perhaps you can even
design your own site).

The only thing I think is how will your book get publicity if you don't have a
publisher behind you. Perhaps Cory Doctorow's model (of putting samples on
line) is good, but how do you get your initial break?

------
mkramlich
In a world where free blog software and PayPal buttons exist I just don't see
the need for drama and hand-wringing over the publishing industry. Write
stuff. Put it out there. Charge for it. If its any good it will catch on,
enough, eventually, and in proportion to how many people like it. The only
bureaucracy or industry inertia or "bad treatment" you potentially expose
youself to are the ones you knowingly and voluntarily involve. Get over it,
move on and concentrate on writing and delivering.

------
jackfoxy
Sebastian, may I ask what your return on the _one week book_ is to date?

~~~
lionhearted
Initial costs were around $10,000.

The cash return is negative.

The art, doing cool stuff, working with good people, and changing the world
return is massive.

(And my share goes to charity anyways, so my personal financial return is
capped at zero. This isn't a money thing for me, I had a 180 degree flip
recently where I started despising money. Interestingly, I started getting
paid a lot more too. Strange world.)

------
SemanticFog
Is this guy for real? Or does he transcend our limited notions of "reality"?

~~~
acangiano
I'm afraid that in its current incarnation, your comment doesn't amount to
much more than an insult towards the author. I would elaborate on what makes
this crazy in your opinion, and others may discuss your argument.

~~~
SemanticFog
This is the tech equivalent of being trapped in a Portlandia skit. You guys
are taking his parody seriously...

------
keeptrying
Self publishing maybe the future but it's going to take a while to happen.
This article on the other hand is pure marketing.

~~~
sathishmanohar
I read, "All of his cut is directly going to charity". It kinda nulls the
argument, even if its marketing.

------
skrebbel
Damn. Got to this link from an HN twitter bot. Didn't notice I was reading a
Sebastian Marshall page until halfway through.

------
lionhearted
I'm heading to bed. Merry Christmas everyone, thanks for all the support _and_
for the criticism too. The former means so much to me, the latter gives me an
opportunity to check my facts and sincerity and either win you over or have it
out in some virtuous conflict :)

------
xinjiang
Sabastian, this battle with S&S is nothing. The real battle is inside of you.

You are a smart and interesting person with a lot of weapons. Call a cease-
fire. Refocus your mind and observe your inner space. Then make a decision
that will help as many people as possible.

Happy holidays and a peaceful 2012!

