
Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is - ajdlinux
https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/765513662597623808
======
imglorp
His complete post (just in case) original 4:40 AM - 16 Aug 2016 from @Snowden:

The hack of an NSA malware staging server is not unprecedented, but the
publication of the take is. Here's what you need to know: (1/x)

1) NSA traces and targets malware C2 servers in a practice called Counter
Computer Network Exploitation, or CCNE. So do our rivals.

2) NSA is often lurking undetected for years on the C2 and ORBs (proxy hops)
of state hackers. This is how we follow their operations.

3) This is how we steal their rivals' hacking tools and reverse-engineer them
to create "fingerprints" to help us detect them in the future.

4) Here's where it gets interesting: the NSA is not made of magic. Our rivals
do the same thing to us -- and occasionally succeed.

5) Knowing this, NSA's hackers (TAO) are told not to leave their hack tools
("binaries") on the server after an op. But people get lazy.

6) What's new? NSA malware staging servers getting hacked by a rival is not
new. A rival publicly demonstrating they have done so is.

7) Why did they do it? No one knows, but I suspect this is more diplomacy than
intelligence, related to the escalation around the DNC hack.

8) Circumstantial evidence and conventional wisdom indicates Russian
responsibility. Here's why that is significant:

9) This leak is likely a warning that someone can prove US responsibility for
any attacks that originated from this malware server.

10) That could have significant foreign policy consequences. Particularly if
any of those operations targeted US allies.

11) Particularly if any of those operations targeted elections.

12) Accordingly, this may be an effort to influence the calculus of decision-
makers wondering how sharply to respond to the DNC hacks.

13) TL;DR: This leak looks like a somebody sending a message that an
escalation in the attribution game could get messy fast.

Bonus: When I came forward, NSA would have migrated offensive operations to
new servers as a precaution - it's cheap and easy. So? So...

The undetected hacker squatting on this NSA server lost access in June 2013.
Rare public data point on the positive results of the leak.

You're welcome, @NSAGov. Lots of love.

~~~
eeeeeeeeeeeee
Thank you for summarizing that. As others have commented, I wish Snowden would
simply blog about this sort of thing. Twitter is frustrating to digest for any
insightful commentary that is on the longer side.

~~~
wepple
if we're lucky, twitter will do what they did with the hashtag and other
things when they realised their users needs were 'inventing' new features.

The 1/n 2/n n/n tweets is a huge indicator of a feature need. Of course,
that's going to dilute their original value proposition of short direct
messages.

~~~
digi_owl
Twitter started out as an SMS repeater.

SMS has for ages, thanks to Nokia, had the capability of merging multiple
messages into a single large one.

Twitter could just make use of this and save themselves a whole lot of grief.

~~~
vanzard
Let's be serious. No one reads twitter over sms anymore. This isn't at all the
reason twitter continues to limit to 140 characters.

(Before some smartass replies "I do read over sms", well even without sms
merging, twitter could still split a tweet into multiple sms. 99.9999% of
their userbase wouldn't care.)

~~~
dmix
That's not relevant to the OPs point. The point is that even SMS clients were
capable of merging multiple messages together, yet Twitter has still failed to
do so. So whether or not they were SMS doesn't matter.

------
peterkelly
It also highlights the risks of NSA exploiting zero-days and creating malware
to conduct offensive operations, rather than reporting vulnerabilities to the
vendor to make everyone safer. Now these tools have been stolen by one of
their adversaries, and may make it out into the public for anyone to take
advantage of.

I just watched an excellent documentary called "Zero Days"
([https://weshare.me/823adb83b8e98628](https://weshare.me/823adb83b8e98628))
this morning about the whole Stuxnet (aka Olympic Games) debacle. They really
are playing with fire.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
Question: Does the NSA have an obligation to be ethical?

~~~
ajdlinux
Does anyone on earth _not_ have an obligation to be ethical? (Yes, I know
there is no universally accepted definition of "ethical".)

~~~
jdimov10
Yes, I don't. Because when you say "act ethical" you mean "do what pleases
me". This is why you can't put forth a definition, because if you did, it
would expose your hypocrisy.

And I'm not one bit interested in doing what pleases you. I'm only interested
in doing what pleases ME (as is every other person on Earth, although most
will never admit it out of cowardice).

So no, I don't have ANY obligation at all towards you.

Now, is it in my best interest to treat you nice and contribute to your well-
being? Yes, in most circumstances I'd have to admit that it is.

Have a lovely day!

~~~
matt4077
That's pseudo-intellectual hobbelgoggle.

"Pleasing" deals with emotions, so we can drop the facade of hyper-rationality
right there. Cooperation is beneficial for an itdividuums' survival, as you
rightfully state. It is indeed of such importance that the standards of
cooperation have been internalized long ago – for non-sociopaths, altruism is
an end in itself and creates positive feelings.

And if you insist on your way of looking at it you actually stopped half-way:
what "pleases you" is /also/ just a useful heuristic to maximize you
reproductive success. The warm feeling you get from winning the lottery is no
more or less real than the warm feeling (other) people get when they see
someone happily getting married.

For this whole system the borders between the individual and the group are
fluid. While certainly, all else being equal, the individual's need usually
trumps the group's, it is anything but clear-cut in most real scenarios. You
may be willing to sacrifice someones life to save your own, but that can
change if the other person is you daughter, when you get to old age or when
it's not a 1:1 sacrifice but merely an assumption of a non-zero risk of death.

~~~
woodman
Calculated actions that take emotions into consideration seem pretty "hyper-
rational" \- you acknowledged as much with examples.

> ... but that can change if the other person is you daughter ... old age ...

It isn't as complicated as you're making it out to be, the decision made by
the individual depends on the maximization of their goals. So that depends on
the weight they assign to the importance of genetic immortality, reproductive
years remaining, justice in an afterlife, etc. Sure, not everybody is a
perfectly rational actor applying game theory in their daily interactions, but
individuals are much more self interested than you're describing - even with
family.

~~~
matt4077
I don't really disagree that all human actions have self-interest as the core
motive. I'm just saying that in an interdependent social environment, a
phenomenon best described as altruism naturally emerges, either because
instincts initially developed for self-serving purposes develop a life of
their own, or because the still-existing individual benefits are obscured (i.
e. a sort of game-theoretic justification for a middle class person to support
welfare).

I'm mostly taking offense with the characterization of such "feelings" as "not
real" or of lesser value than the "pure" thought of rational egoism:

1\. If we take altruism as a highly developed extension of egoism, it's worth
to consider it an invaluable heuristic trained over thousands of generations
to intuitively make good decisions. Where a cold analysis may tell you that
giving money to a poor person is wasteful, I'd say that the warm fuzzy feeling
we get from giving is an encoding of results gained over millennia of
experience.

This also touches another point: I'd suspect that most altruistic behaviors
are actually net-negative for the individual but, when practiced by large
parts of the population are beneficial for everyone. Here, emotions serve as a
prehistoric solution to the tragedy of the commons. It's an idée fixe in some
circles, most notably libertarians and the Ayn Rand crowd to replace this with
a system of contracts or simply force but that disregards (amongst other
things) that almost no idea in psychology has more empirical support than the
beneficial effects of helping.

2\. If we consider altruism as an emergent behavior, a sort of instinctual
moral code, it should be revered as one of the highest achievements of
humanity on a level with art or science.

~~~
woodman
> ... "feelings" as "not real" or of lesser value ...

Well without getting into value judgement, you seem to be on board with the
idea that emotions are a much higher level of abstraction above the cold logic
of genetic survival. I'd welcome an emotional appeal in a public policy
discussion as much as I'd welcome a javascript based boot loader. There is a
time and place for everything, but emotion is given far too much weight.

Altruism is by definition a net negative for the individual, and I agree that
it is very likely deeply rooted in our gene pool. But I certainly wouldn't
hold it up as any kind of great achievement, especially considering how
frequently it is exploited as a weakness by those in power ("think of the
children"). I don't know if we'll ever get to the point where it can be
considered a vestigial adaptation, in the same way we have unused muscles for
controlling the orientation of our ears, but I hope that one day we'll be able
to survive without the genetic compulsion to self-sacrifice.

It has been a long time since I gave Ayn Rand any thought, but your
characterization seems pretty far off the mark to me. Have you read her books?
She hated libertarians, the use of force, and she didn't want to replace
altruism - she wanted it gone. Her reasoning is pretty well founded, as
history is full of well intended and ill-conceived calls for sacrifice - the
road to hell is paved with good intentions, etc. As far as contracts... I'd
love for the world to have that level of clarity. That is why the US is such
an attractive setting for business vs many other well developed economies
(Mexico for instance), businesses hate uncertainty.

------
jmnicolas
IMHO Twitter is the worst media for this kind of discussion : I would have
loved to read something more substantial but being limited to 140 char forces
you to omit a lot of details.

Why use something like 10 tweets where a blog post lets you have as many words
as necessary. You can still be concise but 140 char is too short, it's just
for people that have uninteresting things to say and Snowden is certainly not
one of them (unless he starts to comment about the weather in Russia).

~~~
chatmasta
I'm fond of tweeting a screenshot of longer text, e.g. from the notes app.

~~~
CWuestefeld
I hate when people do that. Much like I hate when people looking for support
send me screenshots - it's SO MUCH harder to transcribe ID#s, for example, or
to record the details of the issue for future search.

~~~
chatmasta
If it's a question of a lesser of two evils - tweetstorms or one screenshot -
which do you prefer? Consider also the fact that when people share a
tweetstorm, they may even take a screenshot of it.

~~~
Kristine1975
What about [http://pastebin.com](http://pastebin.com) or
[http://www.twitlonger.com](http://www.twitlonger.com) (latter requires sign-
in, though)?

~~~
nickpsecurity
Mine are Pastebin'd. Works fine for most writing.

------
ikeboy
>8) Circumstantial evidence and conventional wisdom indicates Russian
responsibility. Here's why that is significant:

Interesting that he's not afraid to point the finger at Russia while still
relying on them for protection. My respect for him just went up.

~~~
saint_fiasco
If Snowden is right then Russia wants people to know extra-officially that it
was them.

~~~
matt4077
That's not new, actually. Remember the Polonium murder? They take some weird
pride in their lack of humanity.

~~~
pluma
Unlike the US, which is busy creating narratives to justify their lack of
humanity?

------
jordigh
Ed was a Booz Allen Hamilton employee only for a couple of months. He wasn't
even out of his probation period as an employee. It's really amazing that in
such a short time he was able to siphon all this information out of the NSA.

I wonder what more information could he have collected if he had spent a
longer time contracting for the NSA. I wonder how much more about the NSA we
could know if people who have dedicated their entire careers to the NSA would
whistleblow.

~~~
chatmasta
If you want to put on your tinfoil hat for a second, consider the fact that
Snowden started his career in the military, then moved to CIA, _then_ moved to
Booz Allen.

It's entirely possible that Snowden is an ongoing CIA op to discredit their
rival NSA as part of a turf war.

~~~
BoringCode
It's also entirely possible that unicorns are real.

~~~
chatmasta
I really don't think it's an unreasonable possibility. It's a known fact
Snowden worked for CIA and even received deep cover training while working in
Geneva. Much of his behavior is not that of a hapless IT admin, but someone
well trained in HUMINT operations.

He comes from a multigenerational military family. That's the kind of
background that breeds strong loyalty to the state, and the exact kind of
background from which the CIA recruits its top spies.

I find it almost implausible that someone with that kind of loyalty would
suddenly resign from the CIA after they invested so much in him, only to jump
ship to a private contractor. If his reasons for leaving the CIA were purely
moral, why would a private contractor ameliorate any of those concerns? It
seems more likely the CIA _sent_ him to Booz Allen.

But hey, it's all a big conspiracy right? Don't believe anything you read on
the Internet, except what Ed Snowden tells you.

~~~
MisterWebz
Would the CIA willingly do so much damage to the US? Surely there are other
ways to sabotage the NSA instead of doing something as high profile as leaking
NSA documents to the public. Besides, I think leaking classified documents of
other intelligence agencies is something no agency does, because an escalation
of this sort would be disastrous for both agencies involved.

~~~
chatmasta
Has he really done that much damage? People are more afraid of the NSA than
ever. One could argue that's exactly what they wanted.

~~~
zghst
I don't think the majority of people in the US are afraid, but aware.

------
ianhawes
There was another article posted that pointed to the DoD-assigned IP of
(something like) "30.40.50.60" that was referenced in one of the files. I'm
fairly certain that was just a coincidence.

However, I did find that one of the autogenerated shellcodes for EXTRABACON
contained this DoD-assigned IP: 155.222.211.8
([http://whois.domaintools.com/155.222.211.8](http://whois.domaintools.com/155.222.211.8)).
The OrgName is "DoD Network Information Center". This appears to be run by
DISA which is also headquartered at Ft. Meade.

~~~
matt_wulfeck
I do appreciate your sleuthing, but the cidrs used by the government are
public, and including them in files like this is trivial and ultimately means
nothing for attribution.

------
msane
There are a lot of little gems in the wording of the auction message.
([http://pastebin.com/raw/JBcipKBL](http://pastebin.com/raw/JBcipKBL)) If it
is Russia there will be some content that only the US gov will understand. I
wonder which portions those would be.

The "message to wealthy elites" portion of the auction message is also
interesting.

 _" Do you feel in charge?"_ in quotes suggests a reference with a pretty
relevant top hit
([https://www.google.com/search?q="Do+you+feel+in+charge"](https://www.google.com/search?q="Do+you+feel+in+charge"))

~~~
matt_wulfeck
It's ridiculously written to the point of being a parody at guessing who did
it. That's my takeaway.

~~~
msane
Attribution security is the meta-message. Perhaps that's the best attribution.

It could be someone else taking advantage of the timing but that is definitely
the intended frame.

"Better than stuxnet" is also quite the claim.

------
coldcode
This is no different than the constant "war" between military offense and
defense. "Good guys" and "bad guys" constant try to get the upper hand leading
to temporary winners and losers. You build a fatter castle wall, I build a
stronger cannon. The NSA and its adversaries are no different.

~~~
ex_amazon_sde
Not at all. This are governments attacking citizens, both in the same and
other countries. Secretly, and without a declaration of war. Targeting
activists, political targets, financial institutions to exploit them, not to
win a war.

And the victims cannot even surrender.

------
clintonhalpin
Here's the full thread - [http://quote.ms/2bkM2HW](http://quote.ms/2bkM2HW)

------
shireboy
Where is the leak he's referring to?

~~~
ajdlinux
[http://pastebin.com/JBcipKBL](http://pastebin.com/JBcipKBL)

------
matt_wulfeck
O government, tell us again how you keep all of the dragnet data collected on
Americans safe from hackers.

------
sys32768
I suspect it was an inside job. The NSA.GOV site is down ATM probably as they
do a sweep. A Twitter user inactive since 2005 said it was an inside job and
the file naming conventions in the leaks are internal only.

~~~
fl0wenol
Why does the idea persist in this day and age that because the public-facing
component of an organization's website is down or being DDoS'd that it has
anything to do with the internet or non-internet facing operations otherwise?

The NSA, White House, and State Department currently use Akamai for their
public websites, for example.

------
em3rgent0rdr
The National Insecurity Agency is more interested in creating and trading
exploits than protecting citizens' security, which ends us putting everyone at
greater risk.

------
lucb1e
Many people complain about the Twitter format and I agree. Fortunately,
Twitter allows people to use about 2KB of text in a tweet, if you encode it as
a URL:

The URL:
[http://because.a.tweet.doesnt.fit.lucb1e.com/?text=From%3A+h...](http://because.a.tweet.doesnt.fit.lucb1e.com/?text=From%3A+https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSnowden%2Fstatus%2F765513662597623808%0D%0A%0D%0AThe+hack+of+an+NSA+malware+staging+server+is+not+unprecedented%2C+but+the+publication+of+the+take+is.+Here%27s+what+you+need+to+know%3A+%281%2Fx%29%0D%0A%0D%0A1%29+NSA+traces+and+targets+malware+C2+servers+in+a+practice+called+Counter+Computer+Network+Exploitation%2C+or+CCNE.+So+do+our+rivals.%0D%0A%0D%0A2%29+NSA+is+often+lurking+undetected+for+years+on+the+C2+and+ORBs+%28proxy+hops%29+of+state+hackers.+This+is+how+we+follow+their+operations.%0D%0A%0D%0A3%29+This+is+how+we+steal+their+rivals%27+hacking+tools+and+reverse-
engineer+them+to+create+%22fingerprints%22+to+help+us+detect+them+in+the+future.%0D%0A%0D%0A4%29+Here%27s+where+it+gets+interesting%3A+the+NSA+is+not+made+of+magic.+Our+rivals+do+the+same+thing+to+us+--+and+occasionally+succeed.%0D%0A%0D%0A5%29+Knowing+this%2C+NSA%27s+hackers+%28TAO%29+are+told+not+to+leave+their+hack+tools+%28%22binaries%22%29+on+the+server+after+an+op.+But+people+get+lazy.%0D%0A%0D%0A6%29+What%27s+new%3F+NSA+malware+staging+servers+getting+hacked+by+a+rival+is+not+new.+A+rival+publicly+demonstrating+they+have+done+so+is.%0D%0A%0D%0A7%29+Why+did+they+do+it%3F+No+one+knows%2C+but+I+suspect+this+is+more+diplomacy+than+intelligence%2C+related+to+the+escalation+around+the+DNC+hack.%0D%0A%0D%0A8%29+Circumstantial+evidence+and+conventional+wisdom+indicates+Russian+responsibility.+Here%27s+why+that+is+significant%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A9%29+This+leak+is+likely+a+warning+that+someone+can+prove+US+responsibility+for+any+attacks+that+originated+from+this+malware+server.%0D%0A%0D%0A10%29+That+could+have+significant+foreign+policy+consequences.+Particularly+if+any+of+those+operations+targeted+US+allies.%0D%0A%0D%0A11%29+Particularly+if+any+of+those+operations+targeted+elections.%0D%0A%0D%0A12%29+Accordingly%2C+this+may+be+an+effort+to+influence+the+calculus+of+decision-
makers+wondering+how+sharply+to+respond+to+the+DNC+hacks.%0D%0A%0D%0A13%29+TL%3BDR%3A+This+leak+looks+like+a+somebody+sending+a+message+that+an+escalation+in+the+attribution+game+could+get+messy+fast.%0D%0A%0D%0ABonus%3A+When+I+came+forward%2C+NSA+would+have+migrated+offensive+operations+to+new+servers+as+a+precaution+-+it%27s+cheap+and+easy.+So%3F+So...%0D%0A%0D%0AThe+undetected+hacker+squatting+on+this+NSA+server+lost+access+in+June+2013.+Rare+public+data+point+on+the+positive+results+of+the+leak.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou%27re+welcome%2C+%40NSAGov.+Lots+of+love)

Example tweet:
[https://twitter.com/lucb1e/status/765544321747718144](https://twitter.com/lucb1e/status/765544321747718144)

This uses a third party site to display, but the data is all in the URL.
Anyone could verify that the site (my site in this case) is not tampering with
the content.

~~~
matt_wulfeck
I actually enjoy the format. It's easy and fast to read, and forces the author
to distill their thoughts.

------
MichaelMoser123
in the early nineties all this security stuff was about writing mostly
harmless MS/DOS viruses. Who would have imaged that this business was going to
get politicized to such a degree - that could only happen once all these
machines got onto the net. Now its all as paranoid as 'Mother Night' by
Vonnegut.

------
then_you_wink
I posted about this in a different thread with a different throwaway, because
I had suspicions that Snowden knew about the whole EG auction thing anyways.
The writing has been on the walls.

This is why there is so much hype over what appears at a first glance to be an
obvious scam, because there is a lot of potential for civilians to learn a lot
about how state-sponsored hacking actually operates. It's very different from
how it's portrayed in the movies, and you really wouldn't be any wiser from
not having been tainted by the movies anyways just due to the ridiculous
amount of stealth involved in day-to-day operations.

If rumors are to be believed, then it means that EG can't possibly be crazy
enough to make such a (relatively) rudimentary mistake like leaving behind
binaries to tools that they KNOW only they have access to. These binaries
don't seem like such a big deal, but the real situation is this: these
binaries are the ONE thing that can tie all the dots together about all the
different attacks that have happened. IRATEMONK, Stuxnet, Flame, etc. All
these crazy "unprecedented" hacks that have just popped up out of nowhere
could potentially be linked together with these binaries that may or may not
exist. On top of that, with enough analysis, it's possible to even identify
different programmers just from their stylometry, even through code, so if
these binaries are detailed enough there could be the potential for
correlation of the author(s).

That auction is really interesting.

~~~
matt_wulfeck
Tying them together wouldn't be very interesting. Am I wrong on this? Don't we
already "know" that the US is behind stuxnet? I don't think that makes the
front pages.

Struxnet was used against a foreign adversary to disable nuclear bomb-making
capabilities. That sounds pretty useful to me.

What would be interesting is learning where these came from and how they were
used. If Ed's musing is right and there's evidence these exploits were used in
democratic elections here in the US then there's going to be hell to pay.

~~~
then_you_wink
I logged back into this one just for you! That is a big no-no, so I sure hope
I don't go mysteriously missing after this!

Anyways, I don't "know" anything that isn't out there to be found. It's a
reasonable assumption to assume that you've already assumed that I work
in/around the intelligence industry/community, but this is hardly the reason
I'm so interested in all of this.

Anyways, to your remark, yes absolutely Stuxnet was contracted or engineered
by the US. We're completely positive that our hands are dirty in that aspect,
but the real question is whodunnit. The beauty of all these state-sponsored
hacks is that they can be waved away as some """rogue""" like Snowden from the
outside-looking-in.

What we really want to know is how deep the roots of the tree go, and how many
of these cells actually exist. How many contractors are there? Where did they
come from? What are their backgrounds? What are their ethnic backgrounds? How
were they recruited? What changes in their online presence can we observe
around the time that they were recruited?

To be perfectly, brutally honest, I could give half a shit what happens in the
election. The clinton mafia has been writing on the wall for literally decades
at this point, what's another snippets?

On the other hand, somebody is out there issuing commands to potentially
DOZENS of the most elite, sought-after, highly-educated, intelligence-savvy
hackers. Maybe they report to a secret committee that controls them, and that
committee is composed of only perfect operators. People who wouldn't fuck up
and let slip that it even exists. That seems unlikely, and just from a
logistical standpoint, it's complex to organize that kind of effort. In the IT
world, there are project managers that went to university to learn how manage
teams effectively, there's a huge science behind it and I can't bring myself
to believe that a committee is capable of the watertight operations that would
be necessary for this.

That leads me to believe that one of several scenarios is the truth:

A) EG doesn't exist. It's another smoke-and-mirrors trick, and there are many
squads like mine that use the same name to avoid correlation, and "play
characters." There is no secret mastermind, just some intel-oriented director
issuing objectives, and that's it.

B) EG does exist, and is controlled by one single person, probably well-
guarded, and he/she manages other smaller splinter groups, and are doing their
own thing. Maybe they made a dirty deal with some USG official, and whomever
that was managed to not fuck it up.

C) EG doesn't exist, and the entire thing is carefully organized by some
special-purpose squad within the NSA or some such branch that we don't know
about. I think this is the most likely option given some of the tactics we've
seen so far, and the level of caution and just the overall "flavor" of how
these hacks seem to happen. Stuxnet for example, was ALL about collecting
information and guerilla operation within "hostile" nuclear environments.
Prevent danger and gather as much actionable intelligence as possible.

IRATEMONK, for example, was all about spreading through networks, through USB,
that sort of thing. Imagine a secure facility, guarded by soldiers, operated
by intelligence professionals or nuclear scientists, or some such "high-value"
people. IM was capable of spreading quickly, persistently, flexibly, etc. Just
digs in and gathers it all up.

That's how modern US intelligence work is done. It's how most government work
is done, period. OODA is as relevant today as it ever has been, and people
like me, people like snowden that have seen those environments and those sorts
of people, just recognize right out of the gate that something is a bit too
familiar about it all.

I don't know very much about the election side of things. I'm certain some
sneaky shit is going on, but it always has been. Nothing new.

What I really want to know, and what I think these binaries can tell us all,
is who is behind these hacks. Where the power is coming from. If even just a
single author is identified and correlated with something on the inside of the
intelligence universe, then this whole thing is blown wide open.

These guys know how close they're cutting it, that's why this auction is so
interesting because if it's real, if they're taking these risks to make money,
or just to get the binaries out somehow, then there are some HEAVY
implications that they might realize that they're in danger. If the auction
proves to be real, it'll speak VOLUMES over something that has been previously
unobservable. I'm assuming of course that the secret mastermind behind EG
doesn't want the binaries out to the public, and so if they somehow make it
out, then someone who had access to them did, maybe as a call for help, as
revenge, whatever. Regardless, it's a sign of unrest, and that the cat's claws
are indeed tearing the bag.

My handles are always snips from the Mary Poppins films. There's multiple
people, but you'll get the idea. It's going to be a very interesting couple
weeks!

Cheers

~~~
solipsism
Wait, important question.. there are multiple Mary Poppins films?

