

Many in Japan Are Outsourcing Themselves - credo
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/business/global/22outsource.html

======
patio11
Great, more jobs for me! (Wait.)

Seriously, while this is a bit oversold, you've got to feel for Japanese
twenty-somethings. I nearly killed myself with overwork as an intermediate
engineer, and my salary would just about pay for a US English major their
first year out of school. And _I had one of the best jobs in Japan_.

Japanese twenty-somethings are being promised jobs with similar hours, worse
working conditions, more work, no guarantee of lifetime employment (oh ho,
there's a biggie), etc etc. Those that can get jobs, anyhow: un- and under-
employment are pretty bad here for twenty-somethings. Meanwhile, there is a
looming public benefits crisis because the intergenerational transfer is
ultimately unsustainable. (True everywhere, but in Japan the demographics are
particularly bleak.)

Is it any wonder that opting out of The Offer is so popular right now? Work
holidays (i.e. go to Australia for a year, work in hospitality/food
service/etc) are quite popular in my social circles: after all, if you're
going to make restaurant wages regardless of what you do, might as well get a
vacation out of it.

There are something like half a million Japanese single twenty-somethings with
no jobs or decent prospects of getting them, and the traditional solution
(marry her off to a salaryman) runs into the problem that a) increasingly it
is a "him" and b) there are insufficient unmarried salarymen to go around.

~~~
berntb
Considering the "gambatte" spirit and long work days, lots of Japanese ought
to do very well in the western world. They would be better rewarded and the
understanding of their customers' cultures ought to be valuable, if they
returned in the future.

Australia and New Zealand should be quite close, too.

So why aren't Japanese expatriates more common? Language?

~~~
donw
The first problem is language. Even though the Japanese spend a fortune on
English education, both in the public and private sector, very few people can
actually communicate.

This is because nearly all of the language education focuses on rote
memorization, and oftentimes students who go 'outside the box' and learn to
speak properly are punished.

My fiancee, a Japanese national, was bullied in high school for her 'weird'
English... because she was the only student in the entire school who took
advantage of the American teacher provided through the JET program.

Friendships are the second problem. Japan is a country where your friends are
dictated by and large through group affiliation, although that's slowly
changing. Making friends by talking to, say, the stranger next to you at a
Starbucks is pretty unthinkable.

Third is arrogance; the idea of 'when in rome...' doesn't seem to exist here.

For example, I once had a group of Japanese 'friends' insist that it was
totally okay to be _amazingly_ rude by American standards, because their
actions were fine by Japanese standards. Things like making plans and then
never showing up, 'forgetting' to pay for their fair share of the beer, etc.

Fine logic, except we all happened to live in California at the time. Needless
to say, I don't associate with these people anymore, but it's worth noting
that few of them stayed in the country, and that even the two that kept on in
the U.S. spend all their time with 'Japanese' friends, and have made zero
effort to really integrate into the local culture.

~~~
T-R
I think your third point can go for any group living in a foreign country.
I've seen foreigners living in Japan do this kind of thing as much as I've
seen first and second generation Americans do it, regardless of where they
came from. The common thread was that they mostly only associated with others
who didn't integrate.

I don't think it's a cultural thing - some people just decide to stay
outsiders, and a subset of those people are rude by anyone's standards.

~~~
yummyfajitas
I think integration is definitely a cultural thing, since in my anecdotal
experience, the level of integration seems to vary wildly with country of
origin.

When I was in grad school, the Chinese students formed their own secret
society to the extent that non-Chinese might never even know their name.
Indians also had a secret society, but unlike most of the Chinese, they
individually interacted with the outside world. Israelis, Russians, Koreans
and various flavors of African all integrated more or less completely with the
outside world.

In concrete terms, Chinese math students joined the Chinese soccer team and
had Chinese advisers. Indians had secret Indian parties, but they played on
the Math soccer team. Russians invited people of every nationality to the
Russian vodka drinking parties.

~~~
stcredzero
_Russians invited people of every nationality to the Russian vodka drinking
parties._

Yes, but Russians have been using the ploy of "getting the foreigners drunk"
for centuries! This has been a key element of their government's diplomatic
strategy forever, and I hear that it's often used in business.

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jac_no_k
One reason operating costs are so high in Japan is that the white collar jobs
are only available in the metro areas like Tokyo. Outside of the metro areas,
the cost of living is much lower, probably never as cheap as living in
Thailand. If the companies would set up these call centers in the outlying
areas, they would get access to unique Japanese talent, without leaving the
country.

I think this kind of talent drain is going to cause problems for an island
country whose only real resource is people. I wonder if the government has any
real long term planning... /me smack head. Oh that's right, Japan has had 5
different prime ministers in the past 5 years.

~~~
MC27
I tend to think the problem is related to whomever is assigning CEO-style
positions to short-term thinkers. The sort of leaders that will bend to the
will of shareholders, even if it disables or destroys an organisation in the
long-term.

~~~
donw
The problem is a mix of 'tradition über alles' and a culture that virtually
reinforces top-down management.

In Japan, you simply Do Not Question the people above you, and those people Do
Not Question the culture that's been handed down to them from whoever ran the
company last.

This is not a culture of innovation.

------
fookyong
Overblown.

Name me a 1st world country where 20-somethings with generic degrees and zero
experience _don't_ have a hard time finding a job.

Disclosure: I work in Japan and have been here since graduating uni. I started
with a low-paid design job, worked hard, changed jobs a bunch of times and now
am comfortably in 6-figure land. That 20-somethings have to take shitty
salaries should come as absolutely no surprise. You work up from there. That's
life.

------
drinian
I'm in Bangkok right now, and I can tell you that just about anything
available in Tokyo is here as well, for a considerably lower price. Most of
the big Japanese food chains are here, even. It's not surprising that there
are Japanese companies doing this, then; in fact, I can think of more than a
few HN commenters, including me, who have temporarily relocated to Thailand to
get work done.

~~~
donw
If you've got Matsuya, I'm on my way!

For those who don't know, Matsuya is a chain restaurant that serves a variety
of rice dishes, and is amazingly cheap -- you can get a bowl of donburi and a
salad for less than 300 yen.

They keep costs down by cutting out ordering; you place your order by buying a
meal ticket from a vending machine at the front of the store.

~~~
elai
Just purchase anything from a street vendor for around 100 yen equivalent.
Japanese food is 'prestigious' and costs about 300 to 1000 yen for a meal.
Traffic is a nightmare in inner Bangkok. Subway, canal boat or sky train only
if you value your time. It can be difficult to find computer and camera stuff
for newegg.com prices

~~~
drinian
I live on the Skytrain.

My experience, shopping for electronics on my round-the-world trip, is that
the US (especially Newegg) is the cheapest place in the world for quality
electronics, thanks to a combination of competition, large market, and low
sales tax.

Note I said _quality_ electronics, not the horrible knockoff stuff you can buy
in the developing world.

------
autarch
It seems to me that anyone taking such a job may be embracing permanent exile
from Japan.

Even though the salary is probably quite good for the new country, it seems
unlikely these folks could ever save enough money to go home and start a life
there.

------
known
Eventually you'll have to face
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H1B#Criticisms_of_the_program>

