
The war to sell you a mattress - pastalex
https://www.fastcompany.com/3065928/sleepopolis-casper-bloggers-lawsuits-underside-of-the-mattress-wars
======
mwexler
The business models for pricing aggregators and reviews sites are completely
absent. Even Consumer Reports struggles to meet the costs of testing and
staffing. The BBB is a mess. The "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" hasn't
meant anything for decades.

It's a sad state of affairs: We all want unbiased reviews, but we won't pay
for them. We all want to know the spread of prices so we can balance
service/trust with cheap, but price aggregators are all either blocked out of
existence or become affiliate listings.

While so many things have come true, there are still a few internet dreams
like free-flow price summaries and wisdom-of-the-honest-crowd which are sadly
still just beyond our grasp.

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
The problem goes deep.

I recently decided to get a Consumer Reports subscription after not having one
for 10 years. I used it to find the absolute BEST dishwasher.

But because their rating system is a little strange, and they don't exactly
tell you BUY THIS, DONT BUY THAT, I ended up with a Dishwasher I hate. It was
the most expensive, and best according to CR, but I cannot express how
miserable this piece of junk makes me.

Then I look at the FREE reviews on Amazon, where I see many people who have
the exact same issues as me. Why did I pay for Consumer Reports? According to
their "tests" this dishwasher might last 20 years or something amazing like
that, but for what I care about it sucks, its hard to use, and it doesn't dry
dishes AT ALL.

I want to fund unbiased reviews, but I also need Consumer Reports or others to
step up their game on providing information that is actually useful and
changes my experience as a buyer.

~~~
TheRealDunkirk
A dozen years ago, I had a house built, and I bought all the appliances
myself. I thought I would research the market, find the sweet spot, and get a
good deal through a specialty appliance store because I was getting everything
at once. Boy, was I wrong.

I subscribed to Consumer Reports online, and came up with what I thought was
the right brand: GE "Gold". I bought everything in the line: stove, microwave,
dishwasher, refrigerator, washer, and dryer. Within 5 years, the washer and
dryer had both been replaced, almost all the plastic accessories on the fridge
had broken, the stove's convection fan failed, and one of the rails on the
storage pan fell off, several screws fell out of the dishwasher before I ever
started noticing, and the silverware tray broke, and I couldn't keep microwave
lights working.

What I finally figured out was that ALL of the stuff CR is reviewing is made
by a few companies, and it's ALL crap. They make it seem like you can buy
something "good" by paying twice as much, but even if CR is truly impartial,
there's no material difference. I got more years of service out of the second-
hand, refurbished, mismatched washer and dryer that I bought from the ratty
converted house/shop on 3rd street than I got out of the "higher" end models,
and paid 1/4 of the price.

And I'll tell you something else for free: it was damn refreshing to hear the
guy who FIXES UP appliances for a living tell me he wouldn't even take my old
units off my hands to refurbish -- for free -- because they really were total
junk. Talk about salt on the wound! Find a local guy who does this and ask HIM
what you should buy; not Consumer Frickin' Reports.

Before I was born, my parents went to Sears, and bought a "good" Kenmore
washer and dryer. They lasted almost 30 years, till they couldn't get some
replacement part for the dryer. I've concluded that the only way to get this
level of quality is to buy "commercial" kit, and pay TEN times as much.

~~~
dv_dt
> I got more years of service out of the second-hand, refurbished, mismatched
> washer and dryer that I bought from the ratty converted house/shop on 3rd
> street than I got out of the "higher" end models, and paid 1/4 of the price.

I think that's one misperception. High end anything models aren't high end
because they're more reliable - they're high end because they have more
features or more expensive finishes, but have more complexity to go wrong.
It's true of cars too.. My pet theory is the most reliable model is the
highest volume model because the company doesn't want to get eaten by support
costs.

I bought a low-end GE twenty years ago and it kept going with fairly easy
parts repair on anything that wore out. But it was a very basic washer. I did
eventually replace it with a higher end washer from another company - but I
had to make my peace that I was getting low-water use and more complexity
while likely giving up reliability. My wife and I have fantasized about
starting an appliance company that values repairability and reliability
without high-end features, but quality materials ...

~~~
gurkendoktor
> they're high end because they have more features or more expensive finishes,
> but have more complexity to go wrong

Sigh, this describes my recent tech purchases to a T. New wireless headphones?
More trouble than I had with wired cans in five years, at 3.5x the cost. My
first laptop with a dedicated GPU? More glitches than my Intel-only MacBook
Air ever had, at 2x the cost. €120 speakers? Their wired "desktop remote" was
so dumb that I returned them and bought used €11 speakers on a craigslist
clone. (I actually think they sound better.)

I spent at least a day reading reviews for each purchase, too.

On the upside, I will save lots of money by never treating myself to "nice
tech" again.

------
PhilWright
Amazing to see people stumbling upon millions. Most techies are trying to come
up with clever technical solutions to try and build an online business. Whilst
elsewhere there are people making millions from reviewing mattresses. Or
whatever the next accidental hot market will be.

~~~
cyberferret
Review sites in any niche industry can be extremely popular. I am a guitarist,
and there are a LOT of blogs and Youtube channel reviewing guitars, amps and
pedals. Most are pretty boring, technical reviews which aren't all bad, but
get a handful of views.

Then there are the channels that thrive on drama and conflict. One particular
guitar reviewer is an older chap, with questionable playing skills and
knowledge, but he excels in riling up companies, which in turn leads to more
publicity and views for him.

He is well known for taking expensive electronic gear apart and saying things
like "I can't believe they charge $2000 for this guitar effects processor when
I know the motherboard and DSP chips on here only cost $200... etc.". When the
company refutes these claims or tried to explain, he shuts them down with
demands for payment to remove his negative reviews etc.

We cannot expect much more though - a whole generation of audience has been
trained to seek out such drama and negative energy and latch on to it like a
remora to a shark.

~~~
Ascetik
Yeah basically he is committing extortion and blackmail, pretty sad.

~~~
whamlastxmas
More accurately, he's accepting bribes to silence his freedom of speech. He's
entirely in his right to have negative reviews as long as they're truthful.

~~~
graeme
That’s blackmail. Making a legal threat and making a legal money request
combine into an illegal act.

~~~
saimiam
What law says I can’t give you an incentive to stop badmouthing me?

According to this link, defamation - written (libelous) or verbal (derogatory)
- is a civil matter and not a crime.

[https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-
made-...](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-made-
simple-29718.html)

~~~
gamblor956
See this page[1] for a detailed explanation, which explains that under most
extortion laws, the threatened act may be perfectly legal (like leaking photos
of someone in a compromised position). It becomes illegal if the threatened
act would "harm" the victim and you demand money in exchange for not doing it.
(Legally, harm has a _very broad_ scope, and can include loss of reputation.)

[edit] Note that what this YTer is doing would probably not be extortion under
California law as long as his claims are truthful, as he has _already_ posted
the videos, and is only demanding money to take them down.

[1]
[https://www.shouselaw.com/extortion.html](https://www.shouselaw.com/extortion.html)

~~~
saimiam
Agree (regarding your edit.)

The guy posted an opinion. The company weighed the costs of refuting his
opinion or paying him to shut up. I don’t think this is blackmail or
extortion. How an opinion can be construed as defamatory I fail to see.

------
sixdimensional
The irony here being, after I read this article, I'm now seeing ads for
mattresses all over the web due to the embedded ads in the article. Marketing
and advertising feels more like a virus than anything these days.

~~~
alecco
The only way is to blur your analytics. Move out of Google/Facebook. Install
Ad Nauseam extension to not just block tracking but click on everything in the
background. This will ruin the information they gather about you with noise.

[https://adnauseam.io/](https://adnauseam.io/)

~~~
manigandham
Not really, just use a real adblocker and move on with your life. Adtech has
plenty of problems but this kind of silly abuse is easily caught and filtered
out with no effort. You might even cause yourself more annoyance with fraud
and spam prevention tools used with common services.

~~~
yipopov
>this kind of silly abuse is easily caught and filtered out with no effort

Not an AdNauseum user myself, but how can we tell this isn't ad industry FUD?
They would certainly have a vested interest in discouraging the practice.

If nothing else at least AdNauseum can contribute somewhat to bandwidth and
administrative costs.

~~~
manigandham
Because it’s one of the most data driven industries with petabytes generated
everyday of actual user behavior so abnormal usage, especially wild clicks,
are among the easiest to catch.

Bandwidth costs would be a few extra bytes and you would likely only hurt
yourself if using a metered connection. There are 0 extra admin costs.

If you don’t like the ads then avoid the site, but if you must still access
the content the use an ad blocker because loading ads just to falsely click on
them only generates a stronger signal than usual.

------
Animats
The whole mattress industry is a scam. Actual manufacturing cost is $75-$300.
Mattresses are even cheaper on Alibaba. Vacuum-packing memory foam shrinks
mattresses for shipping, and now they can be imported easily.

If you really want to annoy the US mattress industry, set up a review site and
review sub-$100 mattresses off Alibaba.

(Personally, I have an air bed which cost about $200.)

~~~
r00fus
Personally I question visco-elastic foam. Sure, it's cheap and may be ok for a
lot of people, but _I_ personally sleep better on an standard spring bed.

Foam mattresses don't breathe, they stink (some mattress I've seen are 1+ yr
old and continue to stink) and aren't firm enough for me.

Do any online retailers sell standard beds? Or am I a dinosaur?

~~~
tcj_phx
My brother has a foam mattress in his guest room. He found it on Craigslist
(it was someone's unused guest bed), used it himself for several years, then
replaced it with a larger spring mattress.

I can't stand sleeping on the foam mattress for more than a night or two. When
I wake up it's like I've sunk into the foam and have been immobilized for
hours. People are supposed to be able to move when they sleep.

He's since gotten an air bed for the other room, and I choose that one when I
go to visit.

~~~
scotty79
Memory foam seems like terrible idea to me unless you are immobilized for some
untelated reason.

But I absolutely love latex foam. You can move easily during sleep and every
position is comfortable. It lasts forever.

------
mi100hael
I've found Ikea to be a great place to buy a mattress. No shady sales tactics
or aggressive salesmen, several models you can physically try out in the
store, and good quality/value.

~~~
pcthrowaway
I went in there a couple of years ago, and bought a full-sized Sultan Havberg
after trying a few out (it looks like they don't sell this anymore, but you
can find it in their product catalog -
[http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/pdf/buying_guides_fy15/Mattress...](http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/pdf/buying_guides_fy15/Mattresses_bg.pdf))

At the time it felt fine, but when it arrived I found it nearly impossible to
sleep on. I could feel the springs pressing into me as I inevitably rolled
around over them. I guess you get what you pay for.

Fortunately a friend of mine whose girlfriend was moving in was giving away a
memory foam mattress topper, which has turned it from one of the worse beds
I've owned into the best bed I've owned.

It's really hard to anticipate how a mattress will actually feel when you try
to sleep on it, and I recommend not skimping on one.

~~~
xapata
Next time ask the IKEA staff which one they buy. I forgot the name, but I
bought one after a clerk in that department said, "We all own this one." It's
amazing. Sometimes I wake up in the morning marveling at how comfortable I
was.

~~~
scotty79
Not sure if that's the one but I bought Hamnvik there. It was so nice that
right after carying it up to our 3rd floor me and my girlfriend fell aslep on
it in the middle of the day for no reason. Unfortunately it lasted just few
years. They have 10 years warranty though.

~~~
gknoy
> me and my girlfriend fell aslep on it in the middle of the day for no
> reason. Unfortunately it lasted just few years

I love that an un-careful reading of this accidentally implies a Rip Van
Winkle style experience, where you and your GF fell asleep for a few years.

------
JoshuaEddy
There is similar situation in the diamond engagement ring market, of all
places! NiceIce, Beyond4Cs, Yourdiamondteacher, ProsumerDiamonds -- all
affiliate marketing blogs that drive a lot of sales. No lawsuit yet to reveal
the inner workings, but undoubtedly there is the same shadiness.

~~~
rypskar
The whole jewelry diamond market is shady and should be boycotted. It is a
shame that many still fall for the marketing and think diamonds are rare

~~~
msla
The fact diamonds can't be tracked means they're all, effectively, blood
diamonds, given that everyone in the chain has a huge incentive for people to
believe they're not and absolutely nobody has any incentive to tell the truth
about them if they are.

Lying about whether a diamonds is a blood diamond is the only move which makes
sense, so everyone must assume every diamond is a blood diamond, as it is
impossible to prove otherwise.

~~~
Retric
Owners of non conflict diamonds have an incentive to demonstrate otherwise.

However, the massive diamond glut means DeBeers has an incentive to buy up
conflict diamond using proceeds from regular diamond sales. Which arguably
makes all natural diamonds blood diamonds more directly.

~~~
msla
> Owners of non conflict diamonds have an incentive to demonstrate otherwise.

Right, but because diamonds can't be tracked, they're indistinguishable from
the good liars who want to pass off blood diamonds as good ones.

> However, the massive diamond glut means DeBeers has an incentive to buy up
> conflict diamond using proceeds from regular diamond sales. Which arguably
> makes all natural diamonds blood diamonds more directly.

This is also a very good point.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>diamonds can't be tracked //

That's a little surprising to me, don't minerals usually have characteristic
chemical fingerprints that allow them to be located once the "fingerprint" has
been established?

Doing a quick search now, eg
[https://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i18/Fingerprinting-
Conflict-...](https://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i18/Fingerprinting-Conflict-
Minerals.html), suggests I'm right in this assumption?

~~~
msla
That's a proposal, one, and, two, it doesn't mention anything about diamonds
being tracked that way, only other ores. An important thing to do, but not
entirely relevant to the discussion at hand.

My knowledge comes from my knowledge of what people have said about Brilliant
Earth, which charges a premium based on the notion that its diamonds come from
Canada.

[https://iwantwhatitsworth.com/blog/brilliant-earth-
diamond-s...](https://iwantwhatitsworth.com/blog/brilliant-earth-diamond-
scam/)

> Small problem: Everyone who’s worked in the diamond industry—for more than a
> week—knows tracking diamonds all the way to the mine is flat out impossible.

The only other info I can find says that diamonds _could theoretically_ be
tracked, but not in any way which implies they'd be tracked _chemically_ ,
just that they could be tracked through a supply chain, in a way ultimately
dependent on the goodwill and honesty of the diamond industry

[https://www.jckonline.com/editorial-article/brilliant-
earth-...](https://www.jckonline.com/editorial-article/brilliant-earth-and-
that-video/)

> Second, the video is incorrect when it states baldly, “Diamonds can’t be
> tracked.” It is true, there is nothing gemologically in a diamond that
> offers any proof of origin, as there sometimes is with colored stones. But
> there is no reason that diamonds can’t be tracked. Bananas are tracked.
> Coffee is tracked.

> If a manufacturer buys directly from a specific mine, establishing a
> diamond’s origin should be relatively easy. All it has to do is segregate
> those specific goods and then make its systems open to audit. For an extra 2
> to 3 percent, I can’t imagine many manufacturers would have much problem
> doing that. (There are probably some manufacturers that would eat the
> diamonds if it meant an extra 2 to 3 percent. But that’s another story.)

> So just because diamonds haven’t been tracked traditionally doesn’t mean
> that is not possible—or that companies aren’t currently doing it. In
> addition to Brilliant Earth, the Forevermark, Canadamark, and Rio Tinto’s
> new Canadian and Australian diamond programs all make provenance claims.

I think I've made my case as to why I doubt this would be sufficient.

------
whitepoplar
The mattress industry is a total scam. Nest Bedding's CEO, the one that was
quoted in the article, even goes so far as to threaten people who post
negative reviews on Yelp. I left a one-star review on their website, but it
doesn't even appear in their product ratings. The ratings distribution on
Nest's website is statistically impossible!

Other companies aren't any better. Casper cheapened the materials used in
their mattress, but is still riding on positive reviews for the original model
which used latex (more expensive) as a top layer.

------
vijayr
Why is everything a "war" in the American media? war on obesity, war on
diabetes, war on this, war on that...?

It is just businesses competing to sell products - maybe a little too
interested in suing, but business nevertheless.

~~~
sjbase
It's really unfortunate. There's a great book called Metaphors We Live By [1]
that digs into this same observation, using "arguments" as an example: you
"attack" another person's argument, you "defend your point." You either win or
lose. We could have just as easily chosen arguments to be a dance instead of a
war.

A lot of narrative here in America eventually turns into good vs. evil, and
War on X is an example of that. I've heard people attribute this to anything
from religion, to the revolutionary origin of the country, to military-
industrial conspiracy.

[1]:
[http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/M/bo3637992...](http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/M/bo3637992.html)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>We could have just as easily chosen arguments to be a dance instead of a
war.//

I don't see how that works - partners dancing together are cooperating to
improve the outcome. Those competing in business are (unfortunately, in
capitalist systems) almost always trying to profit and destroy their
competitors. It's perhaps a bit like moshing?

War fits as a better metaphor for companies under capitalism.

If the companies were helping each other and targeting better products with
less profit, that would be more like dance partners.

~~~
icebraining
Companies help each other all the time; it's called "collusion," and it's
usually frowned upon.

------
hutzlibu
Now this made me thinking of other online review sites. Are they all like
that?

I couldn't give an honest review, if I get more money from B than A. So if
they state otherwise, I call it fraud And I know that's what people call
marketing in general and there might be some truth in it - but that's why you
go to these review site to get a neutral view.

So normally the customer should pay the reviewer, he is doing work for him,
because when the company pays the reviewer ...

~~~
skewart
Yes. Any online review should be taken with a huge grain of salt. The vast
majority are influenced by affiliate payments.

Some, like credit cards and other financial products, are especially bad since
the payments per conversion (i.e. person who looks at the review site and then
signs up for the credit card) can be massive. But even seemingly innocent
niche markets, like light-weight backpacking equipment, can be full of
affiliate marketing.

That said, just because a blog or website is influenced by affiliate marketing
doesn't mean they don't have useful information in their reviews. They usually
are accurate when describing a product's basic attributes. Where they
typically bend the truth is when they're comparing products against each other
(the one with higher affiliate payments is almost always better), or they
simply won't talk about genuinely better products that don't pay for
conversions.

~~~
madcaptenor
And they certainly won't tell you "don't buy any of these things". I recently
came across BabyGearLab ([http://babygearlab.com](http://babygearlab.com)),
which has nice reviews of, say, different car seats or different strollers,
and will tell you which one is the best if money is no object, which one is
the best if you're on a limited budget, etc. But what I really want is the web
site that will tell me "you don't need a smart sock". Yes, that's a thing.

Of course I can just not buy a smart sock. But I pretty much know that at some
point I'm going to buy some thing that's almost as useless because it's for
the baby.

------
z3t4
If you want to make a lot of money - place yourself between the consumers and
the producers.

~~~
b3lvedere
Why isn't everybody doing this then?

~~~
z3t4
I did not say it would be easy ... Only that it's easier then producing and
selling the products/services/needs yourself. It will take much less work if
you figure out a clever way to stand in-between.

~~~
b3lvedere
Ah. Sorta like consultancy.

------
CoryMO
I'm shocked that no one has posted
[https://www.themattressunderground.com/](https://www.themattressunderground.com/)
yet. It is totally worth a look. The amount of technical detail is right up
HN's alley.

Full disclosure: I paid nothing to the site, but used it to find a local
mattress shop (and manufacturer) and purchased a mid-range queen mattress at a
good price. Apparently the shop owner had received quite a few referrals from
them, but he never paid them or received any payment from them.

------
mrfusion
How do you make the switch to foam mattresses? They just feel so strange and
different compared to regular mattresses?

~~~
mrhappyunhappy
Foam actually lacks the support of a traditional mattress. If you do end up
making a switch, take a look at your typical sleeping position. Medium firm is
good for side sleepers and firmest you can find is better for your back but
honestly inner spring is best for your back.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I've suffered with backpain for almost a decade, a new foam mattress (Ikea)
replacing a spring mattress seems to have helped a lot. It's a supportive foam
with a memory foam top; firmer than the sprung mattress.

The only downside is, err, it doesn't bounce when you want to bounce, if y'
catch my drift.

It feels quite different, definitely warmer (not a problem in UK), took a few
days to get used to.

------
cyberferret
The whole online mattress industry has a bit of a stink to it. Here in
Australia, I have been stalked for months by a particular brand of online
mattress, Koala(?), on my Facebook feed, which I ignored, but on the past few
weeks, I see the SAME ads on FB with the SAME girl in them etc., sold as a
completely new brand.

I assume the original company either went bankrupt or received a C&D from
somewhere and had to change their name. But this does nothing at all to
increase my confidence in these online sellers. Welcome to the Cialis of
2017...

~~~
robbiep
Koala is still about. But seems like lots of similar ones popping up as well.
Apparently all made in same factory? No idea if that is true or not

------
dzink
What does YC think of companies that make affiliate revenue? Is it a positive
or a negative in the VC world?

~~~
b3lvedere
Isn't affiliation a sort of a pyramid scheme? Oh sorry .. multi level
marketing .. ?

~~~
zbentley
No. Affiliate sales is just a basic "every sale you send my way, you make some
money" arrangement, different only from traditional commissioned sales in that
the affiliates usually don't work "directly" for the company selling the
product.

Multi level marketing (MLM) schemes are situations in which people make money,
or are promised money, based on their ability to _recruit additional affiliate
salespeople_. The typical MLM pitch is "if you sell product X, we'll give you
a (typically huge) sum of money, and also if you convince someone else to
enter into this same agreement, we'll give you a different (usually smaller)
sum of money, and what's more you'll get money for every sale that recruit
makes, any people they recruit, and any sales they make, recursively on down
the tree."

The con is usually in the fact that product X is difficult née impossible to
sell, and that entering into such an agreement in the first place requires
payment into the scheme. Those factors result in the people towards the "root"
of the tree making tons of money simply from the fact that more people are
getting recruited and paying in at lower levels. They make money from the tree
growing, even though the leaves are not making sales.

This is widely considered unethical (and illegal, in some cases) since its
primary profit engine is recruitment under usually-false pretenses. MLM can be
practiced ethically _between a given two parties_ , but usually only makes
money due to subsequent unethical practices (e.g. one seasoned affiliate
marketeer agrees to be a recruit of another such seasoned salesperson in a
multilevel scheme, knowing full well the behavior of the scheme; they then
both go on to enrich themselves and each other by shilling unsuspecting rubes
with the typical "you can work your own hours, get tons of money, and, if you
grow your network big enough, rake in the cash while your recruits do all the
hard work!" sell concealing the "...for a nominal [signup|monthly|etc] fee"
hook).

Edit: removed accidentally repeated repeated words.

~~~
b3lvedere
Great reply. Thank you very much!

>based on their ability to recruit additional affiliate salespeople

If Casper took owership of every outstanding matress review website there is
and ever will be (or made some of their own in the pocess and have it high
ranked, whichever is the cheapest form of tactics), affiliation would never be
an issue. Wouldn't be ethic, but eh...

------
commenter1
This just proves it: the worst thing a company can do is to underestimate the
stupidity of its customers.

------
justboxing
> Much of this traffic went to Amazon (when Derek lacked a direct affiliate
> relationship, he sent traffic to a brand’s page on Amazon, with whom he
> did).

Something is not not right here. Was Derek banned from the Amazon affiliates
program? How else does he "lack a direct affiliate relationship" ? I made a
viral cat videos site for kicks and was approved by amazon affiliates to link
to cat product reviews... so why wouldn't someone like this guy be able to get
a direct amazon.com affiliate account?

~~~
mifreewil
I think the author meant he lacked a direct affiliate relationship with the
mattress websites. So instead of linking to the mattress websites, he linked
to Amazon.

------
gadders
This article kind of makes Casper sound like the Uber of mattress companies.

------
greedo
Many podcasters are in the same boat, though they try to mask it. I only
listen to probably 3 podcasts, but I hear the same sponsor reads on a daily
basis. Casper, Fracture, Betterment, Warby-Parker, etc. The reads given by
these sponsors are only guidelines, the better podcasters personalize them to
make them sound like real endorsements not just ad reads.

~~~
mrhappyunhappy
Sadly some people can’t tell the difference between a sponsored read and an
endorsement precisely because they make it sound like an endorsement.

~~~
greedo
Even when you can tell the difference, it's hard to ignore the effect of
someone you enjoy listening to do the read. With my favorite podcasts, I enjoy
the "company" of the hosts, and have an implicit bias towards what they say.
So an ad read by them is extremely effective. If it was a canned commercial
like on TV, I'd be able to tune it out much more effectively.

~~~
colmvp
I can't help but laugh when the guys at Pod Save America plug Square Cash and
other companies

~~~
rsynnott
They advertise one of the non-Casper mattress brands, though. Internet
mattress hipsters!

Also, two brands of internet razor. Podcasts seem to specialize in advertising
things that I definitely would want to buy in an actual shop and not the
internet.

------
CM30
This reminds me a lot of the web hosting industry, which also has a huge issue
with questionable review sites set up for affiliate payments and hosting
companies owning supposedly neutral sites about the industry.

There are at least a few active forums you can ask about good hosting
companies on (which is something the mattress buying process seems to lack),
but then you have to deal with astroturfing and companies 'hinting' that you
should use their service in every post.

Either way, I think these industries (and many others) are in this situation
because the internet has just made good, high quality journalism unprofitable.
Along with clickbait and actual lies, it seems affiliate commissions are where
the money is in writing nowadays, meaning there's a huge incentive to write
pandering crap and an equally large disincentive to care about being a truly
helpful source for this information.

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gbbr
This article is way too long.

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mckoss
Felt about right for the complexity of the story and the thoroughness of the
research. I think we should be encouraging long form journalism, not falling
back to click-bait news.

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mrhappyunhappy
Sad thing is even with full disclosures there are vast numbers of people who
will not read the disclosure. Some sites do a bang up job of making the
disclosures so unnoticeable that they never lose a referral.

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markbnj
I really knew very little about the whole affiliate marketing economy before
reading this. My primary reaction after reading it is just to SMH at the
fundamentally greedy acquisitive dishonesty of the whole mess. I realize it's
nothing new, but still.

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marinman
Really interesting article but he really zoomed past the "I got a free
mattress" part

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Overtonwindow
Fascinating read. Who would've thought to roll a massage and ship it? I grew
up and still sleep on spring mattresses. No rolling here.

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R_haterade
No, they can do it with inner springs now too.

That tech is relatively new.

~~~
Overtonwindow
Oh wow thank you, I had no idea.

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chaoticmass
I got a $5000 queen sized latex mattress for $300 because I bought from the
clearance section at [popular mattress store chain].

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joelrunyon
This was fascinating.

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deepsun
Article sounds like infotainment to me, made to advertise mattress advertising
websites. After reading that article you certainly going to remember their
name.

Everything in the article is probably true, however.

