

Women's quest to be 'romantically desirable' conflicts with scientific pursuits - makeramen
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110815101540.htm

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Almaviva
Is this different than for men somehow? I don't remember seeing math and chess
teams having the most romantically desirable boys at my high school. Yet I
(for instance) did these things as well as programming just because I needed
to and liked it so much. If it was the reason I was picked on and a social
outcast, it didn't really make a difference. I don't see many women like this.
Why not?

It didn't change much in adulthood either, at least for me. Yet if programming
has any connection to my complete inability to attract a woman (it's clearly
not the whole story) it still doesn't matter because it's such a great career
and hobby for me that I love passionately. So why are there so few adult women
like this too?

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antimora
One of the points the article made was that women "experience backlash for
violating societal expectations", which might play a big role why there aren't
many female programmers. This also could explain why I often come across
female programmers from India, which is possible they are encouraged more.

But regardless, I personally don't entirely agree with the article's
conclusion that the difference is purely dependent external factors like
culture. I think guys like to tinker with tools more often than girls, and
this interest is influenced by genetics.

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Eliezer
I seriously wonder what would happen if we ran a similar test on women who'd
read lots of Hermione Granger-centric shipping fics in which the male romantic
interest is attracted to her because of her intelligence. Of course this
wouldn't disentangle causality from correlation.

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zach
A great counterpoint experiment would be to similarly expose young men to
images, verbal cues and goals of physical fitness and competitiveness and then
measure their interest in STEM achievement.

If there is no negative impact, you overturn the long-presumed jock-versus-
nerd social paradigm. If there is a negative impact, you overturn the presumed
masculinity and gender norms cited here as being associated with STEM and
force a little more nuance into this argument.

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sitkack
While I have obviously self selected my population ... I don't know a single
guy that doesn't find female intelligence enticing. Women that use their
brains to do what they want are attractive and albeit in short supply.

Women in the US aren't allowed to smart or funny. They can be hot, but not
smart or funny. This isn't true in other places. Eastern Europe for one afaict
doesn't discriminate against female intelligence.

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bluekeybox
> Eastern Europe for one afaict doesn't discriminate against female
> intelligence.

Former Eastern European here -- not sure I would single out Eastern Europe as
being "better" in gender norms. How do you explain the Devushka phenomenon?
[http://www.carpetblog.typepad.com/carpetblogger/2006/07/devu...](http://www.carpetblog.typepad.com/carpetblogger/2006/07/devuskha_style.html)

Going into STEM fields may anticorrelate with pursuing romantic interests --
but it doesn't imply that it correlates with intelligence/strength. I have
encountered many more women with strong personalities who think for themselves
among art students than among math grad students, for example. As a matter of
fact, as a male, I am attracted to the "strong woman" type -- but
paradoxically I find more women of that type among those who have liberal arts
degrees. I believe this has something to do with engineering degrees being
perceived as ones that "train you to be a corporate slave" rather than ones
that strengthen your personality.

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sp332
So, women don't know how to express themselves romantically using math. The
answer seems simple enough: a few romantic mathy role models should fix that
quickly. We could start with Vi Hart's videos.
<http://www.youtube.com/user/Vihart#g/u>

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klipt
The study is likely specific to the country where it was conducted (I'm
guessing the USA). I believe there are studies showing that while girls in the
US are socialized to think of math and science as "masculine", which
consequently affects their willingness to learn said subjects, things are much
more equal in countries like Japan.

