
Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data - vancanwin
I&#x27;m Van Duesterberg, and my cofounder is Min FitzGerald. We&#x27;re the founders of Nutrigene (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mynutrigene.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mynutrigene.com</a>). We ship tailor-made liquid supplements based on your body composition and scientific research.<p>I&#x27;m a biophysicist and epigeneticist who spent more than 10 years studying how environmental factors influence the expression of our genes, focusing on the mechanism of metabolites (including vitamins) in both plants and humans. Min has spent more than 10 years as a personal trainer, health coach and behavioral scientist working in the food and consumer product goods space.<p>This all started because I wanted to be healthier and was frustrated with a lack of answers from our healthcare system, which only sees our data through a “survival” lens (oh you don’t need to be in urgent care or surgery now). I wanted to live beyond just surviving to truly thrive, by reducing chronic pain and fatigue and feeling more energetic. As a PhD in Biophysic and Epigenetics, my natural state to a frustrating, unsolved problem is to start conducting experiments and collecting data on myself. So I started getting involved in tracking and monitoring (using many Google sheets), through collecting blood panels, heart monitor data, and wearables for my activity and sleep. I’ve experimented with different remedies and diets to recover my health after a relatively difficult pregnancy. Eventually this led to the idea for a startup that would make it easy for people to take action based on their health data, by coming up with tailor-made products for the individual. We&#x27;re beginning with high-quality liquid vitamins.<p>Why vitamins? Despite trying to eat as well as possible every day, I found it tough to do as a startup founder and new mom. And the data showed it’s not just me. Almost 90% of Americans are deficient in something or another, because we can’t eat perfectly every day, and recent research shows from NHANES and CDC shows that more Americans are not reaching their recommended daily allowances.<p>Why liquid supplements? The supplements industry is broken - there’s lack of quality, transparency and attention to purity. The majority of the vitamins and supplements you buy through Amazon, or Walgreens degrade, 50% after 6 months on shelves. Our goal is to send you the freshest, ready-made liquid supplements in our lab that are 1) unadulterated (no fillers such as starch or sugar), 2) pure liquid to maximize absorption (not breaking down any sort of tablet or softgel coating e.g. gelatin), and 3) an easier form factor to swallow than a pill. Plus, it’s easier to measure the purity of the supplements on mass spectrophotometry and HPLC in liquid form.<p>Why tailor-made? One of our advisors, Professor Bruce Hollis, has spent more than four decades studying Vitamin D deficiencies that show how we should be taking more Vitamin D than the RDA, in particular Vitamin D3, but off the shelf producers still use outdated information. The isoform of the vitamin matters, and we’ve incorporated hundreds of other papers across other vitamins, minerals and amino acids to provide the right unique mix to each person. We &quot;tailor-make&quot; it for you based on two factors. (1) Body composition. A 150lb man should not be getting the same dose as a 210lb man. Different fat and muscle composition determines whether fat soluble gets stored or how vitamins get metabolized. Most of this research is done in the nutritional sports space. (2) Genetics. The type of vitamin matters (isoform). Certain people who are more Vitamin D deficient should take Vitamin D3 which is one step away from metabolizing to its active form, 25-hydroxycholecalciferol, in our bodies. Another common vitamin that has been an issue for many women in particular is folic acid. A set of SNP mutations prevent anyone from properly methylating folic acid and hence many practitioners recommend taking methylfolate and same goes for Vitamin B12 (cobalamin), which its methyl form is methylcobalamin.<p>Degradation&#x2F;oxidation is a big issue and we try to resolve that by making it just-in-time and capping it immediately after production. We also experiment with different formulations to prevent digestion of vitamins so they can be absorbed further down the line in your gut. No fillers, no starch, no sugar. Just vitamins.<p>High quality liquid vitamins are just the beginning. We want to see if vitamins do work using trackers, wearables, blood work, and even quantifying improvements in performances. Anecdotally, I’ve been seeing a drastic decrease in my base heart rate and more frequently see this low base heart rate during the day. My aortic heart stiffness has become less stiff giving me an age heart of 31 (I’m 33). These data are preliminary, but even blood work says I’m all good which isn’t indicative of whether I’m performing better or feeling healthier. We continue to find other ways to biohack ourselves but most importantly create a community of people who also want to take control of their health. And of course, my qualitative feedback is that I feel more energetic even with all the fatigue that comes with running a startup and being a first time mother.
======
noisefridge
Pardon my skepticism, but the whole "supplement" industry seems incredibly
bogus.

Yes, there might be some benefits from little tweaks to our nutritional
profile. But is this a priority compared to the massive benefits one gets from
simply cutting out refined sugar, refined carbs, and other junk foods, and
doing moderate exercise?

The idea of a supplement tailored to the individual seems to

a) vastly overestimate what we know about the body

b) be suspiciously aligned to marketing. It's easy to flatter people by saying
they are unique individuals and need specialized tests and an expensive,
specialized program to be healthy. Like, that the reason why you're unhealthy
is because you've got this blood type and you can't eat beets on Tuesdays but
you can correct it with this expensive supplement. And it doesn't have to do
with your entire lifestyle.

~~~
vancanwin
I truly understand the skepticism especially when starting this company.
That's why we are putting standards and QA processes to make sure our vitamins
are pure and not filled with 99% fillers as most vitamins do.

We are targeting people who have taken a step towards reducing their refine
sugar, carbs, and proper exercise. Our customers typically work out and eat
healthy, but are finding that supplementation is working for them to reach
their health goals. So they aren't replacing a meal, but adding on top of
their current habits and diets to boost their energy, for example. But if you
look are high-quality liquid vitamins on the market now, it's about on average
$20 per bottle per vitamin that would last you about month. And you'll
probably have to buy a micro-scale to properly weight out the right amount.

The body is super complex, and at the moment, the field of nutritional science
is still making strides in becoming a more validated science. What we are
doing is bridging this gap between research and consumers who are currently
hacking and see if we as a community can provide more insights into
nutritional science.

~~~
faitswulff
> not filled with 99% fillers

Personally, my doubts about the supplement industry aren't about the purity of
the vitamin supplements, but the effectiveness of supplements in general.

~~~
blevin
You may enjoy reading Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet's book _The Perfect Health
Diet_. It includes an approachable survey of results for many supplements, as
well as a considered take on why multivitamins seem less crucial than
advertised.

One reason: metabolic interactions mean that proportionality matters, for
example between A and D. Multivitamins are sometimes optimized for cost and
pill size at the expense of this. Another reason is that people have varying
baselines based on their diet, as well as how much micronutrient synthesis is
happening in their gut. Because each vitamin (aka crucial micronutrient) has a
dose-response curve, both too little or too much is bad; the book tries to
chart out what is a good range for each and how you can achieve that through
diet, lifestyle, and supplements. It is by no means a perfect book, but it is
the best combination of approachable, credible, and well-researched
information that I've come across.

The complexity of untangling these kinds of interactions is why nutrition
research often seems to yield results that contradict earlier results. Biology
is complex, but that does not mean progress in understanding it is impossible.

------
aaavl2821
I've worked with people who have started companies in this space and raised a
lot of money, and also with lawyers who have represented some of the most
prominent companies in this space.

I'd be cautious around even "anecdotal" statements around decreasing base
heart rate and aortic stiffness. FDA takes these kinds of claims very
seriously, and it costs a LOT of money to get the kind of data FDA requires to
back these claims up. Essentially every company that has tried marketing "non
drugs" to improve clinical outcomes without complying with regulations and
generating rigorous data has been shut down, either temporarily or permanently

~~~
vancanwin
Greatly appreciate the caution. Yes, we are working doctors who are making
these claims with supplements and their device. However, I will tread
carefully on my anecdotal statements as well.

~~~
aaavl2821
In the US there is a very big difference between a doctor making a
recommendation to a patient and a company marketing a product, even if the
company is run by doctors.

As you know doctors can make suggestions based on their medical expertise,
even for non FDA approved drugs, and in many cases malpractice is the
mechanism by which "bad advice" is regulated

Companies are not doctors and do not have that same sort of leeway when giving
medical advice. If patients complain, or if your company gets to the point
where it is marketing drugs (even if you call them supplements) based on
unfounded claims and it seems like it can cause reasonable public health
concern, FDA can shut you down overnight

plus if you get some visibility and doctors get the sense you are marketing
overly aggressively and making unsubstantiated claims that could hurt
patients, they can be quite vocal

you probably know this but based on your answer i couldnt tell. dont mean to
be overly critical, but ive seen many companies fail because they are glib re
this issue, and when this happens it reflects poorly on the whole sector

not a lawyer or doctor, just an observer

~~~
minfitzgerald
Thanks for the feedback, yes, we've taken the feedback on this and are careful
about claims and marketing.

------
treis
Wow, I played around with this more. An active 6' 195 lb man gets the exact
same recommendation as 5' 50,000 lb (Yes, fifty thousand pound) woman.

You're not actually doing any analysis or customization are you?

~~~
treis
Nope, it posts the answers to the survey to:

[https://vp9eae2gvh.execute-api.us-
west-1.amazonaws.com/test/...](https://vp9eae2gvh.execute-api.us-
west-1.amazonaws.com/test/adduserdb)

which responds:

"Hello from Lambda"

At which point it shows me my "recommended" packages which are supposedly
"tailored to my body". Picking one of those sends me to a payment screen.

This isn't shady or false advertising. This is an out and out scam.

~~~
crsv
This is pretty mindblowing for a YC company, pretty damaging to their brand as
well being associated with this type of snake-oil product.

~~~
oligopoly
Reminds me of the days when facebook peddled vitamins on their site when no
one else was willing to do business with them. Not the best PR for YC or the
company. I would imagine the thread gets nuked.

------
caio1982
Quite interesting business idea. I would suggest a few changes to the page
though: make it clear you only accept US customers before we waste time
figuring it out in the end of the purchase, your dietary restrictions
checkboxes have possibly their ID not an user-friendly name (i.e. lower cased
with underscores), I did not understand which package I should purchase at the
end (maybe a simple comparison or an actual practical reason instead of a
business description? I would guess I wanted all of them? or not?). Congrats
for the launch! This is a sensitive niche but I suppose it has a lot of
potential :-)

~~~
vancanwin
Thank you for your feedback and we are always trying to iterate on our ability
to be more transparent with our customers.

What we are attempting to do in the next few weeks is:

1) Adding a feature that includes comparisons in dosages with our service
versus standard multi-vitamin pills.

2) And yes to the US only customers. Do you suggest we put it on the home
page? That would be easy to do.

~~~
caio1982
I sort of guessed about it being US-only when I saw inches and lbs so perhaps
in that same page should be okay :-) I hope I can try it someday!

~~~
vancanwin
We are looking to expand into other countries this coming year in particular
possibly Canada and Australia. Where are you hoping for us to ship?

~~~
listic
Why not ship worldwide all at once?

~~~
qume
The US is notoriously unregulated. Why bother in countries with strong
consumer protection and health claim laws? Ride the wave of corruption while
it's still possible. Its not going to go anywhere under Trump.

~~~
listic
iHerb ships to over 150 countries, somehow. As well as many online stores that
ship almost everywhere.

I am not sure what kind of problem there can be in shipping supplements, which
are unregulated by definition.

------
diN0bot
vancanwin, this is a cool premium service and product. i would be more
inclined to pay the premium price if the first step was getting blood/bone/gut
work done. ordering the elixir based on a 10-second form didn't seem much
better than me buying recommended vitamins at the store. it's not very custom
is it!

it is the data about myself that i really struggle with.

i have health insurance and a doctor, but i don't know what tests to have done
or what to do with that information afterwards. i don't even know if i can
have these tests done simply by asking?!

does my blood show a deficiency in some vitamin or mineral? do i need to take
calcium? is my gut doing great things for my mind and body?

i would pay premium price to figure out the above questions, and would be more
likely to pay for a truly customized _treatment_.

ps - it's a lot of trust required to enter in birthday and personal
information for a form. whereas i'd happily take a test with my doctor and
then pay for a consultation with a certified medical specialist who puts my
results in context of a solution - perhaps needing my weight and age and
gender to do that. i it's hard to have that kind of trust with a new startup.
in fact it made me trust y'all less to have to enter that info up front just
to buy a standard mix of vitamins...

~~~
minfitzgerald
Thanks for the feedback, diNObot. You've provided us good feedback to include
the communication of what's included in our new 3-month program that includes
blood and other lab work on top of the genetics. All of your information is
kept confidential to facilitate this customized program.

~~~
acct1771
If you're a customer sending anything besides mailed cash or cryptocurrencies
for any private service, it has the potential to not be private one day.

------
kayhi
Supplements feel like one small step above homeopathy

I've interacted with hundreds of elite level athletes who are always looking
for an edge. These athletes do not depend on supplements and many avoid them.
I would expect these athletes to be on the cutting edge and results to trickle
over to 'normal' people. If these athletes who are more in-tune with their
bodies than most are avoiding supplements than am not seeing a lot of upside
for the average person. If you are deficient or have a medical condition then
sure, but the focus should be on healthy eating. Supplements are not going
make up for eating poorly and likely just results in expensive urine or
placebo effect for most people.

It's hard to debate since everyone is using anecdotal evidence.

~~~
minfitzgerald
Hi Kayhi, thanks. You're right, the evidence, even clinical research that does
exist is drowned out in the noise of anecdotal evidence. But there is clinical
evidence showing effectiveness in supplementation (see some at
[http://www.mynutrigene.com/the_science](http://www.mynutrigene.com/the_science))

We've been frustrated too - because there weren't other supplement companies
that were trying to help customers modify dosages, or find out what works for
them using a scientific approach. We're not saying we have all of the answers,
but that we will discover new findings with you, that can help many more
people and fills a gap that the medical system and current off-the-shelf
solutions aren't providing.

I also agree with you that elite level athletes typically would use minimal or
no supplementation. However, when we interviewed pro athletes, they are also
backed by a team of nutritionists, dieticians and coaches that enables them to
closely monitor and implement a very strict diet and exercise routine that
everyday busy people find impossible to do. We aren't saying everyone needs
supplementation, but since 9 out of 10 Americans are deficient according to
the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) under the Center
for Disease and Control (CDC), it might be you, and to investigate for
yourself. Our customers currently are seeking us for that support as a better
alternative than current off-the-shelf solutions.

~~~
kayhi
Can you link me to the reference that states people should use supplements who
have a normal diet?

My point was that athletes are using their bodies in the extreme do not
require supplements.

Discovering new findings with me is usually fine, but am nervous when it
involves my health.

~~~
minfitzgerald
I agree with you, kayhi. This is our health, and we want to make it so that
everyone in the world not only top-tier athletes are never deficient.

Sure, here's a CDC report:
[https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/Nutrition_Book_compl...](https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/Nutrition_Book_complete508_final.pdf)
as well as this secondary study that summarizes some of the findings
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822995/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822995/).

~~~
kayhi
Thanks, but these references are reporting demographic and biochemical
indicators. They do not state that people with a normal diet need
supplementation.

Summary reference:

"The Nutrition Report has limitations. First, it does not cover information
beyond biochemical indicators, such as dietary intake, supplement usage,
hematologic measurements, and anthropometric body measurements, which are
generally used together with the biomarker information to comprehensively
assess nutritional status."

"forfeit insight into the association between variables unique to each
individual biomarker"

~~~
vancanwin
Hi Kayhi, quickly, what do you define people with normal diet? There is an
array of different diet and different health spectrum that doesn't constitute
a visit to the doctor or even have the thought of getting a blood panel. As
mentioned above, the scientific rigor for each supplement efficacy on some
human clinical trials are sometimes over-simplification of findings from very
short trials that don't look into more longitudinal studies. And this is just
the non-healthy populations. Most clinical trials that do work on healthy
populations tend to focus on athletes. We are still looking more studies that
focus on "average" populations that aren't necessarily unhealthy and pro
athlete population.

In the end, what we are doing is using data to see if controlling for purity
in supplementation improves people's definition of health. If we can control
parameters (purity, vitamin active form, etc.), can we see those changes
quantitatively rather than qualitatively.

Thanks for your inquiry.

~~~
kayhi
Controlling for purity should not be a major problem and should be a baseline
for being in the food business. Lifestyle (diet, sleep, stress, alcohol
consumption, disease, genetics, etc.) will far outweigh the variable of
supplement purity.

I hope you find more studies, but the variables such as those mentioned above
will make it very difficult to determine causation.

------
qume
As a vegan I take B12 (liquid) supplement which costs a few dollars and is
available anywhere.

Vit D supplementation can be useful for some people but only really needs to
be a relatively blunt instrument in terms of dosage.

Thiamine is important especially for people who drink alcohol, but it is
widely supplemented in food.

Im interested in the subject and supportive of any effort to improve peoples
health before problems occur, but in a market which is 99% bullshit,
misinformation and basically outright fraud, the bar is pretty high to claim
to be legit and not be associated with all the scammers. Unfortunately the
publicly available information and this post about this company don't even
come close.

Good luck but you will need to significantly up your game to come across as
legitimate and actually useful.

This is the first time in a while ive questioned the selction of a YC company.

~~~
vancanwin
Thanks for you candidness. We definitely do realize that we need more content
on our website about our process and we are looking for more feedback.

It sounds like what you're looking for is more scientific research to back our
claims.

As a PhD myself, it's been hard to not get tangled in the technical details
and learn how to convey a simply but very informative information the public.

As for thiamine available in food, my PhD was studying thiamine production in
plants and it's heavily regulated depending on what's available in the
environment. Even then I've seen people thiamine deficiency in developed
countries, which is sad really because people just don't eat properly.

And this is becoming more common with Americans not meeting their RDA (see
references below)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2937576/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2937576/)

------
mmmmchipotle
same recommendations whether I put in my actual weight or 350 lbs.

combine the outright lie of customization with the baseless claims (10X?) and
I have no choice but to be extremely disappointed in the ethical choices of
you and (sadly) ycombinator for associating themselves with you.

The supplement industry is mostly scams, silicon valley is supposed to do
things "differently". Obviously that is not the case here. Same shit business
model making money off of ignorant people, different wrapper.

~~~
minfitzgerald
Hi mmmchipotle, sorry for the misunderstanding here. We currently don't show
the degree of customizations online, but do this offline in our lab, so it's
not viewable directly online after the questionnaire is filled out just yet.
We wanted to take the extra step to get you a fully tailored physical product
(which includes insert sheets showing the dosage levels), and the online
materials aren't yet showing how much we do tailor or the better absorbed, the
higher bioavailability liquid supplements we've been shipping.

------
nessup
The people who can biohack are the ones who actually suffer from malnutrition
the least. I love the experience your team brings to the table -- it is very
well needed in such a shitty industry -- but please please please consider
making this affordable from the get-go. Malnutrition is a self-reinforcing
problem that hurts the United States' health care safety net in so many ways
(the cost is obviously the biggest hot-button issue, which is why it's nearly
impossible to change anything). On top of that, it's estimated there will be
more 1099 contractors in the next 10 years than ever before -- meaning there
will be more people who voluntarily choose to forgo health insurance than ever
before. Until health care costs go down, decentralizing preventative care is
needed more than ever. If you make this affordable from the get-go, you have
an opportunity to make a real impact on those who are actually malnourished
and have no practical way to fix that.

------
jdpedrie
See price info without filling out the forms:
[http://www.mynutrigene.com/products](http://www.mynutrigene.com/products)

I kind of like this idea, but it seems so half-baked. Why not wait a while to
get the product working before posting here?

~~~
minfitzgerald
Thanks jdpedrie, our line of reasoning was to get a better product than what's
there on the market today out first and learn what customers really needed as
we went along. We thought we would build a better product that way. But if we
did that, we may have created a bloated solution with features people don't
ultimately find as useful. We know that we're just at the start of the process
and take all customer feedback to heart.

------
ComodoHacker
Nice idea, but... Do you realise that if you do succeed, sooner or later your
customers' health data will be owned by some big corp like Google and very
likely misused/abused?

Do you have any plans about protecting them?

~~~
vancanwin
Our vision is to keep your data as your personal insights. My data is on there
as well, so I hope this doesn't end up in the wrong hands.

What we are doing now is further developing our encryption and HIPAA
compliance service to make sure your data at least stays secure.

------
SquirrelOnFire
How do you measure the gene-expression effects of your supplements? Can you
track certain disease causing genes and see how they're impacted by your
supplements?

~~~
vancanwin
To your first question, that was done on PhD work in human cell lines and
plants. What you observe is the production of the active metabolite (E.g.
thiamine converted into thiamine pyrophosphate) or breakdown of the
metabolite.

We are looking into that research right now with our advisors. This is
definitely an ongoing research topic especially related to inflammatory
diseases and cancer. We aren't making any of those claims yet since it's still
hard to interpret these studies in human cell lines and small population in
some of the clinical trials (E.g. the study that saw increased efficacy of a
cancer drug with vitmin c). We are conducting further investigation and
research with PIs that are doing this type of work. But for now, we do not
have a consumer product that can measure epigenetic changes dynamically.

------
harigov
Where do you list the vitamins that are included in the vial? Also, do you
take into account genetic differences like MTHFR or vitamin absorption issues?

~~~
vancanwin
First, we include the vitamins base on a per package basis and that feature
pops up after you've taken the metabolic assessment.

Second, yes that's the first genetic differences we are accounting for. My
cofounder and I are both female founders with a set of MTHFR SNPs and have had
issues with proper methylation of folic acid and even cobalamin. We currently
include methylated cobalamin, but have had issues finding manufacturers that
provide methylfolate (and not other derivatives such as methyltetrahydrofolic
acid).

------
lcalculus
Please correct original post to link to
[https://www.mynutrigene.com](https://www.mynutrigene.com) as otherwise,
you're redirecting folks to the non-https version which will probably put off
at least a subset of this audience for security reasons ( actually , given the
type of info you're collecting, all should use https).

~~~
vancanwin
Yes thank you. Will edit it now.

------
yaacov
The 'how it works' section of your landing page is broken on iOS safari.

This looks like a good product and one that I will consider trying when I have
more disposable income. I would be more likely to use it if it included blood
tests for vitamin deficiencies before coming up with a custom formulation. Is
there a reason you aren't doing that?

~~~
vancanwin
We are launching that feature through our genetics option in our metabolic
assessment as of recent. What we are having more people do is get a blood
panel done before and after our product. Please contact us at
support@mynutrigene.com to discuss more about it as a service.

We don't provide the test directly, but we recommend blood panels taken
through life extensions.

------
avs733
Just a minor pedantic FYI...

The last answer in your FAQ starts with 'yes' but the question is not a yes or
no question.

~~~
minfitzgerald
Thanks for the feedback!

------
jamesshamenski
The game has been changed. Society will look back at the 'health isle' in a
drugstore and wonder how anyone navigated through a sea of labels and white
lies.

The next step is to hook up with HealthKit and monitor my activity and use to
inform what to send me next month.

~~~
vancanwin
That is the vision - using data to track changes in health rather human
psychology.

------
jaggs
What would be the difference between your formulations and Liposomal vitamins
for example? In terms of bioavailability? And surely 'freshness' is more than
just rapid packaging? It also involves things like temperature etc?

~~~
vancanwin
Yes! Absolutely and other factors from oxygen radicals to light exposure.

To address the difference between our formulation with liposomal vitamins, the
difference is in the formulation of the vitamins working with each other not
in the encapsulation. For example, most of packages includes Vitamin D3,
calcium, and Vitamin K because calcium and vitamin K helps increase the uptake
of Vitamin D3 through interactions with vitamin d receptor.

Ideally, we want to find manufacturers that produces liposomal vitamins, but
haven't found any that doesn't use other fillers such as starch and sugar as
well. Also not all supplements require an encapsulation process. The rate of
vitamin C degradation is the fastest, hence why most vitamin c on the market
is sold with liposomal encapsulation.

------
robhunter
When I filled out the form, I noticed there were a few "free response" fields
- do they factor into the recommendations? What's done with the free-response
answers?

~~~
vancanwin
We are looking to improve our assessments by getting a sense what other
lifestyle factors to include. A lot of customers and people going through the
site has been helping us add other factors such as smoking, for example.

------
lcalculus
site's not having TLS - given info it's collecting - and Chrome's upcoming
lockdown - you probably need to fix this asap.

~~~
vancanwin
Yup totally working on it now. We are working through Cloudflare to setup the
certificates. Thanks!

------
DoreenMichele
I would get rid of the "10x more effective" claim. Effective at what? That
sounds like a vague hand wavy health claim. If you mean it is more readily
absorbed, say that.

You are operating in the wellness space. I blog in this space and have for
years. You will get compared to really crappy, shady companies. You need to do
all in your power to sound nothing like them.

I realize you are a recent convert, so you are enthusiastic, but you need to
come way, way down on the gushy tone. It is a serious problem.

Start a blog. Fill that blog with reliable studies, historical information on
conditions like scurvy and how vitamins C and D were discovered, etc

Acknowledge up front that a well rounded diet is best. Blog about how to get
that well rounded diet. Then let people know that if they can't manage to fit
a well rounded diet into their hectic lives, supplements may be able to help
make up for your inability to eat right. Always say _may help_. Don't make
promises that it _will_ do anything at all.

There are multiple conditions where diet alone is insufficient. People with
cystic fibrosis are routinely subscribed ADEK vitamins because of
malabsorption of fat soluble vitamins. Pregnant women need lots of extra
stuff. Athletes need extra stuff.

I would talk a lot about that stuff and completely drop any biohacking
language. I would go very conservative with this.

The alternative remedy circles I used to hang in would not care one bit about
your spin here. They would want to know the chemical names of the specific
vitamin forms you sell. They would also want links to studies and other
respectable sources backing up your claims.

Some vitamin forms are inherently more bioavailable. Bioavailability is a big
deal. Stop talking about biohacking. Start talking about why their
multivitamin isn't doing what they hoped it would.

I have no idea if you are producing a multivitamin. I and most people I know
who are serious about alternative health approaches do not consume
multivitamins. People who are serious do their own research and they buy
individual supplements. If they need vitamin D, they buy vitamin D, not a
multivitamin containing D.

The only exception is where you need certain things together. Off the top of
my head (therefore possibly filled with inaccuracies), you need to take
magnesium and calcium together and you also need vitamins K and D for proper
absorption, plus you need twice as much of one of those minerals as the other.
Plus it needs to be bioavailable.

If you came up with a formulation with that set of nutrients and backed up
your logic as to why you combined it that way, there is a market for that. I
used to spend $300/mo on supplements. I am not the only one.

I would blog in the vein of "Did you know that the most commonly available
form of calcium supplement is calcium carbonate, the same thing coral is made
of? Yup, you are basically eating coral. No wonder it doesn't do much for you.
Humans don't absorb it very well. Calcium citrate is substantially more
bioavailable. That's a big fancy word that means your body can readily put it
to work. It also means that more of it gets put to use."

Etc.

Target markets include athletes, people getting older and trying to maintain
an active life, people with specific conditions, etc. You can cite the latest
research on staving off osteoporosis and the risk of injury if you are an
athlete with a deficiency, etc.

Healthcare and nutrition is nothing new. You are doing yourself no favors by
talking like it is.

I would talk about how healthcare has been evolving in this direction for a
long time and this is the next incremental step in vitamin efficacy. Take it
way down. If you need to start every reply with "I understand your
skepticism... " you are doing something wrong.

~~~
vancanwin
Appreciate the advice on how to message this. This is exactly what we are
trying to convey, and we are working on conveying that.

Currently, I've only posted one medium article, but working on to expand into
different topics.

I would like to connect to you, if possible. I'll reach out to you via
twitter. Let me know if there is a better way.

[https://medium.com/@mynutrigene/vitamins-help-fight-
diseases...](https://medium.com/@mynutrigene/vitamins-help-fight-
diseases-a3e7c46fa910)

------
orliesaurus
if off the shelf vitamines degrade, liquid dont? Or do they but the different
rate -

~~~
vancanwin
All vitamins degrade within weeeks / months and that's why we are delivering
just in time.

We make the supplements the week we plan to ship it. And you should consume
our monthly vitamins with the month.

Most of the vitamins right after production (including capping) would degrade
on average 50% 6 months after. That's why we are taking the subscription model
approach.

------
lgats
Your app doesn't link to 23andme? I must to upload the file?

------
handbanana
Can they be injected?

~~~
vancanwin
Our vitamins cannot be injected at the moment since most isoforms of vitamins
are usually in an inactive form that requires absorption through the gut.

~~~
timlimfimbim
A more appropriate answer here would be "no, our product is not
certified/approved for that use". If someone asks about injecting your product
(and your product is not specifically intended/designed/ _approved_ for that
use), then a response about isoforms seems to be the wrong way to go.

------
trevyn
Here's an obvious question that you seem to have utterly utterly failed to
answer: WHAT SPECIFICALLY ARE YOU ACTUALLY OFFERING TO SEND ME.

~~~
dang
Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. It's basically yelling, and the site
guidelines ask you not to:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

~~~
trevyn
I'm sorry. I am angry.

~~~
dang
I hear you. This is offtopic, but it's amazing how hard and rare it is to just
make that simple a statement about it.

------
Numberwang
I think this may be a good thing. But I've heard overdosing on Vitamin D
increases some cancers and cardiovascular issues. Why should I trust you and
not government funded research?

~~~
vancanwin
Our work is based on government funded research as well, but it's more up-to-
date. We work with world leading experts such Dr. Bruce Hollis who has spent
more than 40 years researching the appropriate Vitamin D consumption. He's
started the Vitamin D council (see link below) to inform people how we as a
population should be taking more Vitamin D and in particular Vitamin D3.

[https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/](https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/)

------
HorizonXP
Hi Min, say hi to Greg for me!

Check out LabDoor (YC W15), they might be able to help with a lot of testing
and insights as you guys grow.

~~~
vancanwin
We are definitely checking you guys out. We've spoken to Neil to set something
up soon. :)

~~~
HorizonXP
I’m not LabDoor, but great to hear you’ve already reached out!

