
Brazil’s Love Affair with Uber Has Been Ruined by Kidnapping, Robbery and Murder - MilnerRoute
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/brazils-love-affair-with-uber-has-been-ruined-by-kidnapping-robbery-and-murder
======
soneca
I dont like Uber as a company, but I feel this journalist is trying to hurt
the Uber brand more than reporting the facts and inform people.

Brazil has a very high crime rate. Our northeast capital cities (where Uber
started to accept cash as customers were asking for this) are among the most
dangerous in the world regarding murder rate.

The "express kidnapping" is very very common here in São Paulo.

If you consider the crime problem in Brazil, Uber is quite irrelevant on all
of this. And it is fairly obvious that if have a big enough operation here,
crime will happens to you too.

I am not saying that Uber has no responsibilities in supporting its drivers
and passengers (preventing before and supporting after the crime). But this
story seems to just want to capitalize on Uber bad reputation.

And the title is quite exagerated and click baity

~~~
manarth

      "I feel this journalist is trying to hurt the Uber brand more than reporting the facts"
    
      "Brazil has a very high crime rate."
    
      "If you consider the crime problem in Brazil, Uber is quite irrelevant on all of this."
    
    

The article is pretty clear about these points.

 _" It's undeniable that Brazil has a crime problem, regardless of Uber."_

 _" The problem was that Uber started allowing cash payments without upgrading
its weak registration system for passengers."_

 _" Data showed a massive increase in the number of attacks against Uber
drivers since the unveiling of cash payment"_

The article also publishes Uber's counter-argument:

 _" The company says they can't be held accountable for incidents that could
happen to any other driver, including non-Uber taxi drivers"_

On the whole, it feels a fairly balanced article, discussing facts, and
providing rational, articulated, reasoned perspective.

~~~
markovbling
I spoke to some Uber drivers in Johannesburg (also insane murder rate) and
they said the same thing - things got dangerous when they started having to
carry cash.

Worst thing is they were sold on becoming Uber drivers with the promise that
it would be less dangerous because it was cashless...

~~~
buyx
There have been serious incidents involving Uber in a South Africa, including
a rape and robbery, by an Uber driver.

[http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/two-held-for-
brutal-a...](http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/two-held-for-brutal-
attacks-on-uber-passengers-2066912)

------
aianus
I don't see how Uber is special in this regard vs. traditional taxis. If
you're willing to rob a taxi driver you can rob an Uber driver too and vice
versa.

At least Uber gives the police more to go on during their investigation (GPS
logs, ID info).

~~~
alphonsegaston
Maybe, but I think the point of this article is that networks are agnostic
barring intervention to protect them from certain kinds of "traffic". It's
easier/more efficient to coordinate crimes on Uber's network in the same way
that it's easier to serve malware through ad platforms. Criminals in Brazil
are turning Ubers into a real world botnet and Uber is shrugging it off.

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rapfaria
Living in Sao Paulo, I only take Uber when it's really hot and I don't feel
like using the subway.

Uber drivers are constantly at war with taxi drivers, to the point that if I
know there's a taxi stand close to where I'm going to, I'll set the
destination a little further away.

I can't remember a single Uber driver telling me he started making more money
when he started accepting cash. Most of them said they would never accept
anything besides credit card, for safety.

~~~
Semaphor
> Uber drivers are constantly at war with taxi drivers

Currently living in Pretoria, South Africa (close to Joburg). Drop off and
pick up points can't be where there are several cabs and when we went to
Joburg directly there was even a police presence to prevent violence towards
uber drivers.

------
alister
> _Recently, Uber announced that another layer of security would be added.
> Users who want to pay in cash must also provide their date of birth and
> CPF._

Uber is under pressure to do _something_ , so they did something that is both
ineffective and frustrating!

Name + CPF + birthdate is not an effective security measure in Brazil because
anyone can find a valid combination on the web. And visitors to Brazil
obviously won't have CPF numbers, so this security measure is going to be a
hassle for them.

I'll explain a little bit more about why the CPF is so easy to discover and
misappropriate:

Brazilians are asked for their CPF number everywhere. (The CPF is the
Brazilian equivalent of the U.S. social security number.) You're asked for it
when taking an inter-city bus, special ordering a book at a bookstore, or
signing the register in a building lobby. Birthdate is asked less often but
still much more commonly than in the U.S. The reason is often _not for
security_ but to _disambiguate_ people.

In Brazil, 10% of the population has Silva as a last name[1]. An incredibly
large percentage of people have Maria, Ana, Jose, Joao as first names. If
you're American, a name like "John Smith" sounds so common that it's the
subject of jokes ("you made up that name?"), yet you might not actually know
any John Smith's. But a Brazilian probably knows a bunch of Maria Silva's,
Jose Da Silva's, and Ana DaSilva's.

You need a way to reliably differentiate between two Maria Silva's, so
Brazilians ask for the CPF (and sometimes birthdate). And universities and
governments regularly publish lists with peoples' full names and their CPF
numbers to show graduations, admissions, fines, licensing info, whatever. All
you need to do is google for <any name> \+ CPF, and you can find thousands of
PDFs files with thousands of CPF numbers and birthdates (examples: [2][3]).

Furthermore, this is terrible for law-abiding visitors to Brazil because it
becomes impossible to use services that demand a CPF number. For instance, as
a visitor, you can't buy a ticket on any of the Brazilian airlines through the
web[4]. The only exception is TAM (now LATAM) that has a portal for foreigners
that charges 50-100% more than a Brazilian would pay for the same flight. I
don't know how Uber has implemented their new security procedure, but I'm
betting that it won't be convenient for visitors!

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_i...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_South_America#Brazil)

[2] [https://www10.trf2.jus.br/ai/wp-
content/uploads/sites/3/2015...](https://www10.trf2.jus.br/ai/wp-
content/uploads/sites/3/2015/08/sjrj-res-102-sjrj-anexo-v-ref-2015-07-.pdf)

[3]
[https://www.esteio.rs.gov.br/documents/Editais/secretaria/SM...](https://www.esteio.rs.gov.br/documents/Editais/secretaria/SME/2014-02/edital_02-14_notaspreviasefinaisprofessores.pdf)

[4]
[http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_fl...](http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_flight_within_Brazil#Difficulties_of_airline_booking_for_visitors_to_Brazil)

~~~
homakov
I've easily bought flights Rio-SP and to Iguaza with Expedia. Using airline's
website is always a bad idea, anywhere. From broken JS to 500 web server, they
just suck. Always use proper aggregator.

~~~
alister
Oh, I beg to differ. Although airline websites are frequently awful, I always
prefer to avoid a middleman if I can. There are things that can go wrong
between an aggregator and the merchant. More than once in Brazil I've seen a
guest arguing at the check-in counter of a hotel -- he's showing a printout of
his payment through an aggregator and the hotel manager is saying that they
never got the payment and that if he wants to stay, he'll have to pay again
and take up the problem with the aggregator himself.

~~~
homakov
Airlines aren't like hotels. Aggregation systems are very mature and I never
ever heard someone booking and not being able to fly. Plus the price is nearly
the same. Plus you don't need to expose your CC to local airline website full
of holes.

------
grumpynumpy
Seems like Brazil is in dire need of electronic payments systems, like wechat.

~~~
Gys
I am in Rio now since a week. I think this country has much more urgent needs
then electronic payment systems...

Anyways, card payments are more common here then in some European countries,
like Portugal or Italy (many EU countries can be traveled cashless). So I was
surprised Uber accepted cash payments in Rio (nowhere in Europe, I think).

Maybe its because of the tipping ? Adding 10% service fee to any bill seems
extremely universal.

EDIT: thanks ufo for the comment. I thought it extended to other services as
well.

EDIT: I also found this background article on Uber cash payments in Brazil:
[http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uber-cash-
pol...](http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uber-cash-policy-
brazil-spikes-robberies-against-drivers-2017-2-1001747769) It says: 'Just 20
percent of payments in Brazil are made digitally' \- so that is why cash was
introduced

~~~
ufo
In Brazil, tipping is only common on restaurant bills and it is very uncommon
for other services. I have never seen anyone tip a taxi.

~~~
yuriks
I'm native from Rio Grande do Sul. I often tipped taxis (usually by "rounding
up" the value to make change easier too) and I don't think I've ever tipped at
a restaurant. Might depend on the region, but I was under the impression that
this was pretty universal.

~~~
alister
What you and the parent say are not inconsistent.

You tip taxis by "rounding up", but the parent says he never tips. By
_American standards_ , rounding up (i.e., up to 50 cents) is not tipping. Taxi
drivers in the U.S. and Canada expect 10-15%, or even more in New York City,
though their expectations have probably gone down since Uber arrived.

The parent say "tipping is only common on restaurant bills". I'm pretty sure
that the parent is referring to the 10% service fee, which is always optional,
but that everyone pays unless the service was really bad[1]. You don't call
that tipping but since it's optional, it's very similar to a tip.

[1]
[http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Tipping,_fraud,_and_s...](http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Tipping,_fraud,_and_shop_etiquette#Tipping)

~~~
literallycancer
>By American standards, rounding up (i.e., up to 50 cents) is not tipping.

How would you call it?

------
aml183
I took Uber while I was in Rio. It was perfectly safe. Uber Black is much
different in Brazil than it is in the United States. You aren't getting into
an Escalade, but typically a Toyota or Honda. Also, you could only pay via
credit card. Maybe this is limited to Sao Paulo, but most Brazilians I spoke
to were happy that Uber was in Brazil.

~~~
cesarbs
> You aren't getting into an Escalade, but typically a Toyota or Honda.

Keep in mind that popular cars in the US can be luxury cars in Brazil. My
Brazilian friends' first reaction when I tell them I have a Honda Civic here
is "damn, freaking awesome, you're loaded!"... and then I tell them that's a
pretty basic car in America :)

~~~
ascorbic
This is probably in part because import duties in Brazil are insane, so an
imported car is much, much more expensive than it would be in the US.

