
Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline - happy-go-lucky
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/20/524896256/louisianas-governor-declares-state-of-emergency-over-disappearing-coastline
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adolph
The first two comments seem to associate anthropogenic climate change with the
changes in Louisiana's coastline. A more likely culprit is hydrologic
mismanagement. The coastline was formed by waterways that periodically changed
channels and dumped sediment in different areas. In relatively recent times
cities on the existing waterways became politically influential enough for the
federal government to build a series of controls to prevent waterway changes
that would otherwise distribute silt more evenly along the coastline.

Given the long-running chronic nature of the coastline change, I'm surprised
this is being raised as an "emergency." Given that the principal cities of
government and commerce in Louisiana would likely be extremely negatively
affected by an honest root cause analysis (without the Mississippian waters,
they won't work so well as ports), I'd bet the powers that be will play up
climate change and ask for lots of money to be pointlessly dumped in the gulf.

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OliverJones
Thirty years ago, John McPhee wrote about this very issue. At that time a ship
on the Mississippi river could go through a lock, drop FIFTY FEET, and take a
shortcut to the ocean via the Atachfalaya river.

[http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya)

Just because it's not a new situation doesn't mean it's not an emergency.

~~~
hyperpape
Can someone explain the following bit from that article to me:

"As the mouth advances southward and the river lengthens, the gradient
declines, the current slows, and sediment builds up the bed. Eventually, it
builds up so much that the river spills to one side."

I'm having a little trouble understanding it. What does it mean for the mouth
of the river to move southward? Does sediment build up and create new land
near what used to be the mouth?

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snowwrestler
Sediment carrying capacity in water is affected by current speed. Even a slow
moving river slows down when it hits the ocean. Then the sediment it is
carrying settles out to the bottom.

Over time this creates an underwater mound that acts like a barrier to the
current. So it deflects to one side or the other (or both). Then the sediment
builds up in that new location until the current deflects again.

Over time this builds up a fan-shaped extension of the shoreline called a
delta. The river might flow out through any number of channels through the
delta, and it might change often.

The bigger the river, the bigger the delta. The Mississippi has a huge one...
which New Orleans sits on top of.

~~~
sizzzzlerz
For now, any way

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AnOscelot
Here's an extensive article on the subject of the Louisiana coast, and how the
usually seen map silhouette of the state needs to be fixed.

[https://medium.com/matter/louisiana-loses-its-
boot-b55b3bd52...](https://medium.com/matter/louisiana-loses-its-
boot-b55b3bd52d1e)

~~~
aaron-lebo
...as a lover of maps I thank you for this link. Really fascinating.

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ryanmarsh
At issue is deteriorating coastline due to projects by the army corps of
engineers. Don't confuse this with global climate change (although I'm sure it
doesn't help).

~~~
lbhnact
While the ACOE has a complicated role in all this, they must serve many
competing interests. The State of Louisiana, the needs of the maritime
industry, oil and gas interests, and the federal government that allows the
situation to continue, because of the temporary economic benefits we all reap
from inaction.

An incredible overview of the problem was written 20 years ago by John
McPhee[1], as part of his book "The Control of Nature". Unfortunately, solving
the problem in the long term means essentially undermining the entire economy
of South Louisiana, and leaving the City of New Orleans destitute.

I served in Baton Rouge for 3 years and spent a lot of time on the Mississippi
River. It's an extraordinary resource that much of America silently takes for
granted. I with there were better solutions to save it and protect the people
of Louisiana, but I don't feel like I have better answers to these questions
that anyone else. It's a tough situation.

[1]:
[http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya)

~~~
scythe
I think you've got this backwards. Sometime in the 15th century, the
Mississippi's course drifted westward and crossed with the Red River (now
called the Atchafalaya River) at Turnbull's Bend. From that point forward,
according to the laws of hydrology, the Old Mississippi was inevitably doomed.
The ACoE's ORCS acts to prevent the Mississippi from being completely diverted
along the Atchafalaya.

It's the parts of the delta which are fed by the Old Mississippi which are
disappearing, and this is a totally natural process. The same river is what
serves the port of New Orleans. The natural course of the river can only be
temporarily stayed; it will find a way around the ORCS eventually. If the
river is allowed to flow naturally, the majority of Southeast Louisiana,
including New Orleans and Lake Ponchartrain, will disappear under the ocean.

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mythrwy
So Louisiana's governor requests a bunch of money from Washington.

I often cynically wonder if the true aim of some of these "emergencies" is
boosting the local economy and adding jobs which presumably allows the
governor to claim economic growth.

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Skylled
(Louisiana resident) I remember being taught about this issue in 2nd Grade, 15
years ago. So I agree with everyone's confusion to suddenly calling it an
emergency.

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vinchuco
Here's an example of the change:
[https://earthengine.google.com/timelapse/#v=29.7616,-89.7909...](https://earthengine.google.com/timelapse/#v=29.7616,-89.7909,10.02,latLng&t=0.08)

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tda
You can nicely see where land turned to see and vice versa with the aqua-
monitor: [http://aqua-monitor.appspot.com/](http://aqua-monitor.appspot.com/)

A lot of the Louisiana marshes have disappeared

~~~
pdelbarba
How does this work? I don't see any explanation of the colors.

~~~
grok2
It was on the main page: Green and blue colors represent areas where surface
water changes occured during the last 30 years. Green pixels show where
surface water has been turned into land (accretion, land reclamation,
droughts). Blue pixels show where land has been changed into surface water
(erosion, reservoir construction).

~~~
pdelbarba
Very cool, thank you.

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zentiggr
I have looked at this situation for more than 12 seconds and although I see
that it is a horrendously complicated mess, given all the competing interests
and opinions and careers involved, it really does come down to "trying to
harness the river was a fool's game, and you're going to have to back off and
rethink this completely. Nature is taking the pieces away."

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tajen
Not to diminish the terrible situation of the victims, but looking at maps and
pictures [1], it seems to me like a very unstable land: It dried over time,
diving under the average sea level, and it's been kept free of water only by
humans' constant work. Didn't we do a mistake here by considering it habitable
in the first place? Imagining humans as a single entity, should we have
settled there, climate change or not?

[1]
[http://www.nola.com/katrina/index.ssf/2015/09/hurricane_katr...](http://www.nola.com/katrina/index.ssf/2015/09/hurricane_katrinas_wetlands_de.html)

~~~
splawn
Profits have a way of making what would normally be considered an
uninhabitable place, habitable. Look at a map, pick a place that seems crazy
to live and look it up on wikipedia.. there is usually a natural resource
being the reason there are people there and it is usually oil.

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fra
I cannot help but feel some schadenfreude as we watch the majority of the US's
oil refineries get threatened by rising sea level.

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arbuge
Meanwhile, on CNN's front page today:

[http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/us/louisiana-climate-change-
sk...](http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/us/louisiana-climate-change-
skeptics/index.html)

~~~
bkkssnn
>Dotson gets red in the face, repeating that scientific studies showing
climate change as affecting weather patterns or warming the Earth are simply
wrong.

This godly redneck can tell yearly temprature average fluctuations by 0.1
degrees, and using it as anecdotal proof that climate change is a fraud.

>"The climate is exactly the same as when I was a kid. Summers hot, winters
cold."

~~~
MisterBastahrd
My dad is 70. Growing up, he'd show me all the places he used to fish with his
dad where they could fill their ice chests in a couple of hours. These were
canals on the side of the road, mind you. Now, you're lucky to get a bite at
any of them, and unless the wind is blowing just right and the tides are
perfect, you aren't filling your limit, much less your ice chest, at any of
the prime fishing spots in the area. And if you ask him, he'd say "I guess we
caught too many fish," completely ignoring the ecological and climate impact
we've had on the area.

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edibleEnergy
Related ProPublica data visualization:
[http://projects.propublica.org/louisiana/](http://projects.propublica.org/louisiana/)

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delinka
"The state has a plan to implement more than 100 restoration and protection
projects — like rebuilding marshes and barrier islands..."

Sounds like a terrible plan to me. Treating symptoms instead of the disease
won't solve the problem. Just because we humans are "determined" doesn't mean
fighting nature like this will be successful. I'm sure the locals will feel
better about their politicians for a few years and probably just long enough
to 'forget' until the next time this exact problem needs to be solved.

The true options in this case are: 1) prevent rising sea levels, 2) move away
from the coast. Wasting money "rebuilding" barrier islands is just folly.

~~~
criley2
Actually when you consider the global implications of climate and the local
effects of shore, a local area using local money to protect local shore in the
face of global inaction they are powerless to change makes perfect sense.

It is actually your position which makes no sense. "Hey 4.6 million
Louisianans, sure you're only 0.00063% of world population, but protecting
yourself and your land from what the other 99.9994% do is futile, you must
instead convince the other ~7.1 billion humans to change so your land will be
safe!"

~~~
delinka
And what about moving industry and residences away from the current coastline
over the next 50 years? Make a plan to prevent new real estate development
within a certain distance of the current coast; plan the obsolescence of
currently developed areas and over time reclaim them for the environment.

~~~
ItsDeathball
That's a problem when the coastline is the reason for those industries and
residences being there. It's not exactly feasible to relocate the oil refining
and shipbuilding industries of New Orleans and Baton Rouge to central
Mississippi.

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erentz
I have real issues with states like this where it's leaders deny climate
change and prevent action on it, yet cry when issues like this occur. Similar
when the BP oil spill occurred and they cried about the affect on their coast
and fishing industries. They seemingly are fine with destroying their
environment so long as it occurs over 50 years rather than 5 months.

~~~
dnautics
Isn't most of the coastline damage a result of creating shipping canals and
pushing brackish water further inland?

~~~
erentz
Today. My issue is with the ongoing support for actions that will lead to the
eventual destruction over decades anyway, while complaining about current or
historical destruction. If the coastline is important to them today, why don't
they care about it in the future?

~~~
philipov
'I'll be gone; you'll be gone.'

~~~
bkkssnn
The thing i still don't get is that most of these people have kids right? How
can it not be a relevant issue for them ?

~~~
philipov
I suspect there is a lot of "If I don't do it first, someone else will, and
they'll be the ones to make all the profits" going on. In that kind of
environment, the best thing you can do for your kids is make as much money as
possible so at least they will be rich enough to enjoy whatever's left.

~~~
self_assembly
Isn't that the definition of a race to the bottom. I have no idea how far away
the bottom is, but it seems like once we get there that money might not be all
that useful.

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gumby
Good for the governor. Compare that to North Carolina where the legislature
passed a law sticking their fingers in everybody's ears:
[http://blogs.cuit.columbia.edu/culr/2016/03/21/north-
carolin...](http://blogs.cuit.columbia.edu/culr/2016/03/21/north-carolina-
denies-and-defies-science-in-house-bill-819/)

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intrasight
The article doesn't specify who, if anyone, is adversely affected by the
disappearing coastline.

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jakelarkin
privatize the profits (oil), socialize the losses (coastline)

