

Why there are no children and we should think less - LeonW
http://leostartsup.com/2012/01/why-there-are-no-children-and-we-should-think-less/

======
tsunamifury
Just because children and adults are both part of superclass 'human' doesn't
mean there aren't extremely important differences between subclass 'child' and
subclass 'adult'.

Also I don't seem to understand what that has to do with 'think less and do
more' -- which I patently disagree with. While we can get in analysis
paralysis, so many of the problems I observe from big systems, whether they be
digital or social come from improper decomposition of problems due to not
enough thinking and a whole lot of rushed doing.

~~~
ams6110
Well obviously there was the observation that children tend to operate more in
a "think less" mode. They learn by trial and error: do something, evaluate
consequences, do or don't do again. That's fine when you are learning things
like fine control of your motor skills, or how to speak the language your
parents are using. Even as adults, some things are only really learned by
doing: developing skill at playing a sport or a musical instrument for
example.

But I agree with you. The consequences get to be more painful and can affect a
lot more than just oneself if one carries this too far.

~~~
davidw
Sometimes they operate like so: do something, evaluate consequences, realize
it's not to their liking, and pitch a huge hissy fit. Preferably in public, in
front of lots of people. Bonus points for attempting to smash the object of
their frustration.

They are definitely different from most adults who have their shit together.

~~~
gridspy
Just because children haven't yet learnt to control their rampant emotions
doesn't mean that they deserve your insults.

My little ones have tantrums. Considering how many things they cannot do or
control, I empathize with them.

Tantrums only become a means of control when combined with weak and
inconsistent parenting.

~~~
davidw
Whoever said anything about insults? I'm just pointing out that, in important
ways, they are quite different from adults.

~~~
gridspy
I totally agree that children are different from adults. Sorry about my
comment re 'insults'.

I guess I just get a bit defensive since tantrums are a natural part of
growing up.

:)

------
wvenable
I appreciate the conclusion of this post but biologically it is somewhat
incorrect. We know that humans go through specific stages of mental
development and brain growth (the last of which happens in the early 20's).

It's true that children have no filters -- very young children experience
everything. The more they learn, the more they are filter out the irrelevant
details of the world and can then use their brain power to deal with ever
increasing levels of abstraction. You can't turn back the clock on that.

~~~
WiseWeasel
Sure, you can turn that clock back. Living in different countries or cultures
can help break down perception, exposing misconceptions and the fundamental
beliefs you took for granted. In a more dramatic fashion, LSD and a few other
substances, as well as strong spiritual and near-death experiences can lead to
a sudden shift in perspective. After such an experience, you might find
yourself spending a lot more mental effort observing the world around you, as
the filters you've relied on are removed from your field of view.

It might even be observed that abuse of certain substances, such as alcohol,
could at least temporarily reverse a person's level of mental development
(Woot, happy new year!).

It's far from being as tested and documented a science as developmental
biology and psychology, but there are various commonly practiced methods for
disrupting the progress of that mental development clock from a smooth arc to
a more tangled shape.

------
jonmc12
I was surprised to read this in Wikipedia:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child#As_a_non-adult> \- "Recognition of
childhood as a state different from adulthood began to emerge in the 16th and
17th centuries. Society began to relate to the child not as a miniature adult
but as a person of a lower level of maturity needing adult protection, love
and nurturing. This change can be traced in painting: In the Middle Ages,
children were portrayed in art as miniature adults with no childish
characteristics. In the 16th century, images of children began to acquire a
distinct childish appearance. From the late 17th century onwards, children
were shown playing."

However, reading the source article
(<http://www.elizabethi.org/uk/essays/childhood.htm>), I would say that this
point of view (Lawrence Stone, et al) is not well supported. First, realize
that this insight was made only to studies of the UK from 1500-1800 (a period
very likely marked more strongly by society's ability to express notions of
childhood through art - the renaissance, than to evolve the definition of
human childhood so rapidly). Second, Stone himself abandoned the thesis of his
work in the 1980s (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Stone#Ideas>) as
more evidence about this time period was presented by his peers.

I suspect that some of these theories would not have emerged at all if
evolutionary psychology, our understanding of the mammalian brain, and studies
of mammals in their natural child-rearing environments had been readily
available at the time when "The Family, Sex and Marriage in England,
1500-1800" was written.

Anyhow, I challenge that wikipedia probably should not quote the work in this
context in the 'Child' page, nor should it be treated as a credible theory in
the discussion of this article.

~~~
ams6110
I don't think that point of view even makes sense. Humans and lower mammals
are all born more or less helpless. They require caring parents for
nourishment and protection in order to survive. Certainly you can argue that
the period of "childhood" has been greatly extended in recent centuries, but
it makes no sense that the concept of a child as something other than just a
physically smaller adult emerged in the 16th century.

~~~
chipsy
If the vocabulary doesn't exist(or isn't predominant), it becomes hard to
point out the distinctions. Certainly, humans recognized from pre-civilized
times that there were children, but expectations of children were going to be
different - in a smaller tribal society, for instance, each one would be a
unique person.

A more recent concept is the idea of the "teenager" in western culture -
people who aren't adults and aren't children either.

------
j_baker
So much to say here. I think this is an important issue. Being kid-like is
central to being creative. But at the same time, being adult-like is central
to being productive. The key isn't to become a creative kid who does nothing
productive any more than it is to become an adult who does a lot but
accomplishes nothing[1].

A few other thoughts on this subject:

I don't think that being child-like necessarily means one should think less.
You just have to think _differently_. We adults have lots of experience that
makes us think a certain way. Part of going back to being a kid is in learning
to think in ways that bypasses that experience. For example, experience has
taught me that Java is the best language to use for a team of 100 programmers.
But I'm going to use Python for reasons x, y, and z.

Nor do I think it's a _compliment_ to be called overly kid-like. Bear
something else in mind: kids are fairly self-centered. They're at the stage in
life where everything is about _them_. Everybody drops what they're doing to
take care of them. Narcissists are people who are essentially frozen at this
stage in time. This is why some people have noticed that there's a correlation
between narcissism and creativity[2].

All the above noted, I _do_ think that we as adults need to remind ourselves
that we can't be adults all the time. It's just a question of when the time is
appropriate, which can be _very_ difficult to determine.

 _Did you know that we invented children? Children don’t exist._

I realize the irony in my _thinking_ to refute a statement that's intended to
point out why you _shouldn't_ think. But this is a non-sequitur. We invented
laptops, and there's a laptop right in front of me to prove that it exists.
Race and gender are invented concepts as well, and they have a very real
impact on our day-to-day lives.

[1] Shameless plug, I've already written on this subject:
<http://jasonmbaker.com/how-to-be-creative>

[2] [http://www.fastcompany.com/1701676/narcissism-and-
creativity...](http://www.fastcompany.com/1701676/narcissism-and-creativity-
intriguing-and-troubling-findings)

------
fourspace
I really enjoyed this post. In fact, this philosophy is behind not only the
way I treat myself, but the way I parent my children. Treating them as human
beings instead of little people "growing into adults" has proven to help me in
more situations than I can count.

~~~
LeonW
Hey, so glad you liked it! Yes, absolutely, whilst I don't have kids yet, this
is absolutely the mantra I want to use too. And it is fantastic to hear that
this has proven to help you on so many occasions.

------
tete
I still prefer to be a thinker, but I have also been as a kid. So maybe that's
why. Probably means I do less and make fewer decisions, bur I decided for the
other way. I know both kinds of people. Often they prefer to be the other
kind, but isn't it always like that?

Reminds me of a quote from Rob Pike though:

 _Eventually, I decided that thinking was not getting me very far and it was
time to try building._

------
SoftwareMaven
I disagree. The physiological differences between children and adults is
large, particularly in the brain.

 _However_ , I think that adults who make the effort to continue to work on
neuroplasticity into their adult years will likely be more intelligent,
probably be more successful, and maybe be happier. I also think if _all_
humans did that, we would all be smarter, more successful, and happier.

------
edw519
Great post. Actually got me to thinking about my own upbringing. My parents
were either brilliant or lucky (probably somewhere in between).

I was brought up in a style when people were expected to "do their best",
regardless of age. I walked a mile to school at age 5, did my own laundry at
age 7, cooked for my mother and younger siblings at age 9, and starting
working at age 12. I didn't think much about it until I went to college and
realized how helpless most people my age were.

Sometimes I think that this upbringing, more than anything else, has been most
responsible for my success. To this day, when I'm debating whether or not to
do something, I imagine my father saying, "That code isn't going to write
itself." He treated me like that at a very early age and I continue to treat
myself that way now.

The concept of "there are no children" is just another way of looking at the
same thing. Thanks, OP, for the new perspective.

~~~
pkghost
Your father's mentorship style reminds me of Gotama Buddha's style of
teaching: not imploring, cajoling, threatening, or demanding, but simply
laying out the consequences of any given action and leaving the decision up to
the individual. He also suggested that students test his offered truths and
develop a first-hand understanding rather than taking his words on faith.

People can get very receptive when you offer help without implying they should
take it.

------
rayditutto
The closer you work with kids (or have kids) the more you will realize it is
not as simple as you portray. Hmm, another parallel with people who talk vs
people who do.

------
Qz
I'm not really a fan of the whole 'no children' idea, but the point about
thinking less is absolutely true. When it comes to coding there is a bit of a
distinction that is easy to trip over: the difference between thinking and
processing. If you've watched Notch code you can probably see this at work -
people often remark about how he's continuously writing code rather than
sitting there thinking. But it's also obvious that he's not just blindly
typing code -- he's processing the code while he's typing.

But for life in general, thinking is a trap. Your brain has already done all
the important processing for you, because that's what it does. Do what your
gut tells you, but pay attention to what happens because that's the only way
your brain can improve it's process.

------
uniquejosh
I really enjoyed the post too. The older I get, the more I feel I can learn
from a kid. Usually we over-complicate things, and kids can remind us how
simple happiness can do. Stop over-think, and do the things we enjoy!! :)

~~~
LeonW
Hi Josh, so glad you liked it! Exactly, I felt I was on a path to
overcomplicate thinking the older I get, while it works much better completely
the other way round - thinking less and simplifying the holder we get! :)

------
zerostar07
Developmentally, children have no alternative; that's all they have to wire
their brains (from learning to walk to learning to talk and on). Part of the
things you learn as young person is to delay gratification, and think before
you act because it pays off in the end. Adults are perfectly justified to use
that acquired skill. Overanalysing is usually pointless, but the opposite, not
doing so at all is ... childish.

------
DragonHo
Think less, do more :) is the right way

~~~
LeonW
So true, exactly my thinking in this post! :)

------
pnathan
Thinking, reflecting and reasoning from the insights are key to improvement.

------
pents90
Would everybody please stop saying 'whilst'? Seriously.

~~~
dasil003
Not everyone is from the US. If you are from the US then I agree, don't use
it.

------
waterhouse
Time for me to post an excerpt from a... love letter I wrote at some point.
(Yeah, I'm probably a weird person.)

\--------

 _"Discovery is the privilege of the child: the child who has no fear of being
once again wrong, of looking like an idiot, of not being serious, of not doing
things like everyone else."_

This quote, from a great mathematician who made large strides in his field
[Alexander Grothendieck], was brought to me by the man who serves as a kind of
mathematical mentor to me. Let's take a look at it. It's true that if one is
fearful of being wrong, of looking like an idiot, etc., then one will spend
mental energy on worrying about avoiding these things (and possibly change
one's behavior too), and this obviously interferes with thinking about and
working to understand the problem at hand. Conversely, to the extent that one
is _free_ of such fears, one's mind is free to make discoveries.

Now, not all children are fearless, and not all adults are deeply concerned
with how others see them. But there's a correlation, and it's easy to see why:
Children are born curious, and they're not born afraid of... losing others'
respect. That's something you have to learn to be afraid of. Furthermore, to
the extent that an adult is absorbed in his topic of study, is excited about
the things he's doing, and is unconscious of whether he looks silly or makes
embarrassing mistakes in front of others, we might say that he seems
childlike.

There are other things that can interfere with discovery. If a child has
unreliable access to food, shelter, clothes, etc., he will have to divert his
energies away from learning about whatever he was learning about, and toward
addressing those needs. We can say in general that if a child's access to any
particular thing that he wants or needs is uncertain, then he will worry about
it, and this will _distract_ him from discovery. It's clear that this is true
just by the phrasing. (In this case, I'd distinguish a "want" from a "need"
like this: if he doesn't get it for a while, and he stops worrying about it,
then it's a want; if he doesn't stop worrying about it, then it's a need.) And
again, conversely, if we want to help the child grow and learn and become
strong, then the way to do this is to provide solidly for the child's needs so
he isn't distracted and can focus on growing.

And here we see another reason the quote talks about _children_ : adults,
usually parents and relatives, provide food and shelter and do laundry and so
forth for kids, while they usually don't do that for adults. But adults aren't
necessarily doomed. An adult might have a steady income and a routine for
dealing with all the basic needs, and this might leave him with time to forget
all his worries and focus and learn like a child. This seems like a good thing
to aim for, as a prospective adult. I'd hate to stop growing, or at least to
be slowed down a lot, just because I've become an adult.

All this is generally applicable to one's life. But there's one need in
particular that I'd like to address.

Love. I think children, and adults too, have a strong need to feel loved; what
it means to be loved is probably somewhat different for every person, but some
common things include tending to one's other needs, giving physical affection,
displaying trust in various ways (such as accepting physical affection,
sharing secrets, and accepting one's help in performing an important task),
and promising to do these things (of course, the promise must be believed,
which means it must be kept). We can apply what I said earlier: If one's
access to love is uncertain, then one will worry about it, and it will
interfere with growing. Conversely, if we wish to help someone grow, then
giving them unconditional love is a powerful way to do it.

I think I can offer you my unconditional love[....]

