

Ask HN: Is a 100% free (as in freedom) modern desktop possible? - ralmidani

I understand that for the time being, there cannot be 100% free phones (the graphics chip, the baseband modem, and the GPS chip) or laptops (the video BIOS, the webcam, and AFAIK, the SSD firmware), but given that desktops are composed of somewhat interchangeable parts, is it possible to build one that is completely free, all the way from the OS to all firmware to the BIOS?<p>Some preferences: AMD--not Intel, discrete graphics are better than on-the-motherboard, SSD is better than a spinning hard drive, and an optical drive is unnecessary.<p>Edited for typos and clarity.
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weinzierl
I guess Richard Stallman's setup is as close as you can get for a
Notebook/Netbook. You can read about his current setup on his website[1] and
about his previous setup on "The Setup"[2]. I doubt that it's easier to build
a 100% free desktop machine but would like to hear that I'm wrong.

[1] [https://stallman.org/stallman-
computing.html](https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html) [2]
[http://richard.stallman.usesthis.com/](http://richard.stallman.usesthis.com/)

I find this discussion incredibly important, because when it comes to security
it seems to me that the weakest link in the chain is currently the user facing
endpoint.

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rajeshmr
it is possible, libreboot / coreboot + debian or FSF recommended OS. You need
to lookup the supported hardware though :
[http://www.coreboot.org/Supported_Motherboards#Desktops_.2F_...](http://www.coreboot.org/Supported_Motherboards#Desktops_.2F_Workstations)

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ralmidani
I can't seem to find any info on Libreboot's page regarding which motherboards
are supported--only laptops.

[http://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/index.html#supported_list](http://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/index.html#supported_list)

~~~
rajeshmr
My Fault, i wrote that comment off memory. Should have checked about libreboot
before mentioning it for desktops. Apologies!

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DDuunnccaann
Yes it's possible, but not with current CPU from Intel or AMD.

Researched this recently after stumbling upon Librem 15:
[https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-15](https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-15)

Librem 15 sounded too good to be true, and reached the conclusion that it is.
Chatted with coreboot devs on IRC and read this article:
[http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/02/23/the-truth-about-
pu...](http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/02/23/the-truth-about-purism-why-
librem-is-not-the-same-as-libre/)

Gluglug is probably the best option right now:
[http://shop.gluglug.org.uk](http://shop.gluglug.org.uk)

Here's an email (March 2015) from Gluglug responding to some of my questions:

Hi Duncan,

> > 1) Libreboot X200 w/ 8Gb RAM and 120GB SSD is spec'd as CPU P8400 > or
> higher. Would it be possible to receive a X200 with T9600 > (2.8Ghz) at this
> price?

T9600 isn't available on X200. If you are in the EU, you can send your own
X200 for flashing if you like.

"Or higher" means that I can send one with any CPU. Most of my X200 laptops
(and most of what you will find online) have the P8400.

> 2) The X200 page mentions inclusion of ProteanOS. Is this available > now?
> If not, could you give me a rough estimate of when it will be > available? >

There is no ETA, but it will be available some time this year, as a kernel and
initramfs file which will go into the libreboot ROM images and be bootable
from the GRUB payload.

> 3) How does one update libreboot when it's already installed? Is > this
> something that can be done from within the operating system, > or does one
> need to open up the computer and flash via beagle board > or similar? >

No disassembly or external hardware needed. You can update it in software.

> 4) The list of supported hardware on the libreboot website is > limited to
> older laptops with low display resolutions. Would it be > possible to
> utilize libreboot on more recent hardware? If not, what > is the limitation?
> Chipset? It would be amazing to run libreboot > with a more modern CPU...i5,
> i7, etc. >

Those newer Intel systems will likely never be freed, due to the management
engine (ME). The ME was removed on GM45 (X200 uses this), but it is a lot
harder on later platforms.

At present, the plan is to now focus exclusively on AMD and ARM for newer
hardware platforms in libreboot.

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walterbell
_> the plan is to now focus exclusively on AMD and ARM for newer hardware
platforms in libreboot._

New AMD desktop CPUs include an ARM security co-processor which could provide
similar functionality to the Intel ME. The open security community will want
to take a close look at all code running on it.

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em3rgent0rdr
novena

~~~
ralmidani
Does the graphics processor have free drivers and firmware?

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miguelrochefort
Why exactly do you want that?

