

Return of the Mac (2005) - unwantedLetters
http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html

======
jot
_[2] Y Combinator is (we hope) visited mostly by hackers. The proportions of
OSes are: Windows 66.4%, Macintosh 18.8%, Linux 11.4%, and FreeBSD 1.5%. The
Mac number is a big change from what it would have been five years ago._

I'm interested to know what the proportions of OSes are today.

~~~
akent
Results of a HN poll from a few months ago:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2303726>

Total responses: 1539 Linux: 564 (36.65%) Mac: 557 (36.19%) Windows: 365
(23.72%) Other: 53 (3.44%)

~~~
officemonkey
Polls can be aspirational. I'd rely more on the server logs say.

~~~
bostonpete
Well, I would have answered Linux on that poll, because I use it as my primary
work environment. But I almost exclusively use Windows for web browsing. Maybe
I'm atypical though.

~~~
officemonkey
Not really. I do most of my HackerNews surfing at home on OS X, but I spend
most of my workday on Windows.

------
walexander
OK, someone convince me to go Mac.

I've had essentially zero issues with Windows. I do 99% of my development in
Linux (access my devbox through VNC). For desktop use, I have absolutely no
problems. I work very fast zooming around with keyboard shortcuts. I don't get
viruses or bloatware. Everything is calm and familiar.

Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I
immediately hit issues. Paste is crazy squiggly hash v (or maybe apple v?), I
can't right click, I can't win+d to the desktop. I'm sure all of these things
are possible, but I'm fumbling around like my grandpa when I taught him to
email.

At this point, I'm pretty sure it can't all be brand hype (my thoughts a few
years ago). I'd really like to know what the incentive is for throwing away
years of muscle memory, familiarity, and tweaking ability.

So, go ahead, someone sell me on Macs.

~~~
masklinn
> Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I
> immediately hit issues.

You seem to hit issues because you _want_ to hit them.

> Paste is crazy squiggly hash v (or maybe apple v?)

The key is called "command". Does "Command V" not make more sense than
"Control V"? And free up the Control key for more interesting stuff?

> I can't right click

You can, unless it's a 4+ years old machine it's just a preference (if you're
using a trackpad). Any 2+ buttons mouse will natively "right click". Even on
older machine, Ctrl+click will open a contextual menu.

> I can't win+d to the desktop

"Show Desktop" is natively bound to Command-F3 on modern macs, on older ones
it was on F11. It may also be bound to an active corner.

> So, go ahead, someone sell me on Macs.

Don't know if that will sell you. For me it was a combination of several
things:

* Unix environment with an actually useable terminal. By default. Even in 10.3/10.4 (and Terminal has come a long way since then). cmd.exe never "felt" right, I never found a windows shell worth using (even Putty is a pain), and if you're going to remote log into a _nix machine anyway why not use one in the first place?

_ Spotlight works much, much better than Windows Search, and dedicated
launcher applications (QS, Alfred, QSB, Butler, etc...) take that a step
further

* 99% of the time, managing applications is Simply Easier. No fudging around with installer or painfully browsing to your Program Files folder (and wondering if the soft is 32 or 64b and in which program files you should put it and if you should create a shortcut so the bloody windows search can find it and...). Instead, open your archive (zip or dmg), drop the .app bundle in the Applications directory (via the dock or your finder sidebar) and launch it whenever. You can even launch it right there, nothing to do, no time wasted.

* A thriving indie community with loads of good software at fair price. I did buy licenses one Windows, but not many, and I did not find much which made me go "damn I have to give these guys some dough back for their work", even after I stopped being a poor student.

* Package managers. Whichever your pick is between Macports, Fink and Homebrew having one is invaluable.

* The machine is generally useable as is. Even if you don't download anything it can be used, you have a good PDF & image viewer (Preview is fairly amazing), lots of serviceable software, and it does not "feel" as clunky as windows long did.

Only negative I've found is that Finder is not as good as the Windows
Explorer. Though with Windows 7, they've become significantly closer in that
search has become shit in 7's explorer.

Essentially, OSX is a full unix with a bearable interface, softed by people
who care.

Now if you don't do any dev on your box, it might lose some of its appeal.

~~~
Jach
Good points. Though it seems like you and the other repliers are selling him
based purely on downsides of Windows. A modern Linux such as Ubuntu has more
or less all of the things you've mentioned, and as a biased Gentoo Linux user
I'd argue in many cases Linux does it better. (
[http://www.thingsfittogether.com/2011/08/start-developing-
fo...](http://www.thingsfittogether.com/2011/08/start-developing-for-os-x-in-
just-68.html) ) So it seems like you're arguing "Mac is a better environment
to use VNC for your Linux than Windows is." Unless you want to convince him he
also should switch to Mac for development? I'm actually curious how much the
GP does on his Linux box besides development. Personally I only use Windows
for games and the occasional x-to-exe conversion. (Oh and Flex development at
work with Adobe's Flash Builder.)

~~~
evilduck
Until you want to go mobile. Linux on a laptop is still a hit-or-miss
experience w.r.t fully functioning power management, wifi without workarounds,
and integrated/discrete graphics cards. I know there are perfectly working
laptops available out there, but it's still a hassle to track down, find
reviews, verify compatibility as stated, then actually install linux since
almost nothing ships preinstalled. Then you might want to run QT/GTK/Wx/Tk
stuff all side by side on the same machine and that lacks cohesiveness and
makes a linux desktop feel very hacked together.

Also, trackpads.

------
djacobs
I switched from a Dell laptop to a PowerBook G4 in 2005 as I was going off to
college. I remember very clearly the initial confusion I had dealing with the
radically different file setup ("What, you mean I have to distribute my Jar
files in 6 different directories? Windows just has the one!") and Unix
interface. I laugh now, but the documentation was actually pretty terrible
back then, and I couldn't initially figure out where to store files that I was
dealing with. (This was back in the day when Apple distributed its own behind-
the-times JDK and wouldn't support anything else.)

I was so upset the first week I owned my PowerBook that I actually wrote Steve
Jobs saying "Why would you ever separate Java externals into so many different
directories? Where's the documentation for this Terminal.app program? You're
going to lose my business if I find more shenanigans like this in your OS."

I got an e-mail back that week from Apple saying "You'll learn to love it, we
promise." I was skeptical, but I quickly realized that there's a sanity to
Apple's FHS (and Unix's moreso). I also grew to love scripting on the G4 far
too much to be able to return the computer as I'd threatened to.

Now, I can't imagine ever going back to the "Windows Way", or anything close
to it. I still have that G4, and it runs (Arch Linux) like a charm.

The one thing I haven't grown fonder with Apple's popularity is that customer
service now feels cold. In 2005, it was a legitimate pleasure to talk with an
Apple rep on the phone. Several of them were happy to explain the internals of
the OS to me my first time through, as they were thrilled to have any Windows
convert they could get.

Now, things are different, and I don't get the warm, fuzzy feeling I did 6
years ago.

------
mattraibert
I'm totally out of phase with other hackers. Apple user: 1985-2003.
Windows/Linux user: 2003-2011. I just recently (2011) got a MacBook Pro to
work on my first ruby project.

I was one of those hackers that stuck with Apple through the 90s. In 1996 I
learned how to install netBSD on my mac and in 1997 I installed MkLinux (an
Apple sponsored project). I was incredibly excited when Apple announced that
it was going to integrate this new (to me) exciting world into the next
generation of their operating system. In 2001 I finally got my first machine
that was powerful enough to run OSX. But I was a little disappointed. There
was no native software, my OS 9 software barely worked and the thing kept
breaking. When two power cords broke, the screen broke and the disk drive
crashed, I traded for a ThinkPad.

------
daed
Did this quote make anyone else think of the iPhone a bit?

"In the fall of 1983, the professor in one of my college CS classes got up and
announced, like a prophet, that there would soon be a computer with half a
MIPS of processing power that would fit under an airline seat and cost so
little that we could save enough to buy one from a summer job. The whole room
gasped. And when the Mac appeared, it was even better than we'd hoped. It was
small and powerful and cheap, as promised. But it was also something we'd
never considered a computer could be: fabulously well designed."

------
pclark
I have always used Macs and good lord, the days of Mac OS X being out but the
processors not being Intel were truly some of the most embarrassing years for
Apple computing.

I remember owning (and loving - for some reason) an iBook G3 that was
basically unusable for a few months whilst I awaited more RAM for it. I think
this was when their laptops had 64Mb RAM but Mac OS X really needed 512Mb. And
remember when Mac OS X had OS 9 built into it? Ugh.

It's crazy to think how dominant Apple is now, compared to those days, and the
even more pathetic days before that.

I cannot even think of a reason why any consumer wouldn't now go out and
purchase a Mac or iPad for their next computer.

~~~
TheEskimo
There are many valid reasons. For one, Apple computers are overpriced. The Air
is a good deal and the MacBooks themselves aren't too overpriced, but the
actual Mac computers are extraordinarily overpriced. They also offer hardware
beyond what most users need. A lesser quality computer can browse the web just
as well and can do it for a thousand fewer dollars. Price is just one minor
point though.

Windows still has dominant market share and, as such, is still supported far
better by developers. More programs come out for windows than for mac by a
long shot. The consumers are also familiar with windows which further
increases the chance of them not buying a mac.

Anyways, the point of this comment is to refute your last statement. I'll
first say that "purchase a .. iPad for their next computer." is completely
ridiculous. A tablet cannot fill the needs of a user yet. I'll focus on why
many consumers would not want to purchase a Mac. 1\. Software support. A large
amount of software is available only for windows. 1b. Video games 2\. .Net
developer/other developer. Many software developers will work on windows
because that's their target platform due to the market share. 3\. Familiarity.
That's a big one. People are familiar with windows and so they stick with it.
4\. Price. Because pcs are sold by various venders there are many pricepoints.
Apple doesn't allow that. 5\. Business relying on legacy software for windows.

Do I really need to name more? "I cannot even think of a reason" .. You really
couldn't think of any of the above reasons or one of the several more? Macs
are great and all, but they aren't the answer to everything. They still have
many issues. Apple's tight grip leads to higher quality but higher prices,
reduced variety, and reduced content. For now, a windows machine can do
_almost_ anything an apple computer can do at less cost. The consumer also has
far more choices. A mac can only do a portion of what a pc could do; if the
user installs linux than the mac has almost no features left that the pc is
incapable of. Perhaps you'll harp on hardware quality, but it's perfectly
possible to get machines of similar or better quality to any mac aside from
the macbook air.

~~~
olivercameron
"I'll first say that "purchase a .. iPad for their next computer." is
completely ridiculous. A tablet cannot fill the needs of a user yet"

You'd be surprised by how many people just use a computer to check their email
and browse the web, all of which can be handled on an iPad simply and
beautifully. My Wife and Mother have both stopped using computers altogether,
iPad is all they need.

~~~
jonnathanson
This. The percentage of laptop users out there who actually seem to "need" a
laptop is a lot smaller than we might think it is. Maybe even a minority of
all laptop users.

Pretty much everyone I know who isn't a hacker, gamer, or Excel jock can get
by with just an iPad for the sum total of their computing needs (web,
Facebook, email, Angry Birds).

~~~
swah
Also, anyone who writes long documents probably wants a laptop, so everyone
who is in college.

~~~
jodoherty
If you have Pages for iOS, an iPad stand, and an Apple wireless keyboard, you
can actually get by pretty well using the iPad for word processing, assuming
you sit at a desk to write.

------
tptacek
Did he buy like you recommended?

I've made a hobby of embarrassing myself with recommendations to friends not
to buy AAPL.

~~~
flurie
Why is that? Just swimming against the current, or do you have particular
problems with them? Have you been making other positive recommendations
instead?

~~~
tptacek
P/E.

~~~
ewanmcteagle
If you back out the $30/share in cash the P/E looks to be around 12.

~~~
tptacek
Uh, look at the AAPL chart since '05. You don't need a carefully constructed
argument to refute my investment thesis. :)

------
albertzeyer
One important phrase: _When it comes to computers, what hackers are doing now,
everyone will be doing in ten years._

This really often explains upcoming trends in the computer / tech world.

------
ludwigvan
Here is the change of Apple stock from 2005 to 2011:

[http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AAPL&a=08&b=7&c=...](http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AAPL&a=08&b=7&c=2005&d=07&e=8&f=2011&g=m&z=66&y=0)

------
pizza
Why do hackers like Macs that much? Wouldn't it be better to use cross-
platform tools?

~~~
lallysingh
Macs are high-end machines and come with a sane OS on them, with support from
the manufacturer.

The last two issues together: sane OS, manufacturer support, basically knock
out the rest of the market.

~~~
r0s
A sane OS would let me delete a file with the delete key(!).

~~~
alanfalcon
You use the command key to issue commands and raw keys to type. So: command-
delete means it's fast and easy to delete a file without the worry of
accidentally losing a file when your cat jumps on the keyboard.

~~~
jorisw
> I should have the option though

No. This is what good software design is. The designer chose this path,
offering you the option to change this is what makes software bloated and
unmaintainable.

~~~
r0s
No options in software, gotcha.

~~~
ugh
Not too many at any rate. If a minor detail like the key to delete files is an
option pretty much everything else has to be an option.

Options should only be there as a last resort, not in any other case.

