
The End of Food? - beniaminmincu
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/05/12/140512fa_fact_widdicombe
======
beejiu
> One of Silicon Valley’s cultural exports in the past ten years has been the
> concept of “lifehacking”: devising tricks to streamline the obligations of
> daily life, thereby freeing yourself up for whatever you’d rather be doing

Well, to be frank, I'd rather be eating. What's the point of your life if you
don't have time to even eat, let alone enjoy yourself.

~~~
hayksaakian
I suppose the argument is that you derive some amount of enjoyment from eating
due to hunger.

If you were never hungry, would you eat for enjoyment?

Soylent's premise is that you have time to do other fun or profitable things
instead of making time for a meal.

~~~
rosser
_If you were never hungry, would you eat for enjoyment?_

Absolutely, I would. The range of sensations available through the consumption
food is second only to sex in its breadth and power and sensuality. Anyone who
would forego that because it's "inconvenient" utterly baffles me.

~~~
jmduke
I think a helpful parallel for this is alcohol consumption. I'm a huge
cocktail nerd: I love tinkering with them and admiring them, finding
complexity and nuance in slight variances in recipes and ingredients, admiring
the deep levels of possibility in preparing a great drink. If anything, the
drunkenness is a distraction from the mixology.

And at the same time, there are people who drink only when they want to get
drunk -- or who abstain altogether, not liking the bite of alcohol or the
consequence it conjures. And that's totally normal.

I think it's more likely than not that at some point in the future, eating
food will be the same way -- there will be a pronounced spectrum of interest
once it's decoupled from the need for subsistence.

------
maguay
Somehow that title, contrasted with the chart
([http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/business/economy/changed-l...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/business/economy/changed-
life-of-the-poor-squeak-by-and-buy-a-lot.html)) showing how the price of food,
especially has gone up in recent years while tech prices have fallen, makes me
worry about a future reality where real food is so expensive it's only for the
elite, and everyone else subsists on supplements like Soylent.

~~~
joeperks
This is part of the plot of "Soylent Green".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_green](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_green)

~~~
maguay
Right. Disconcerting to see its namesake being a foreshadow of said plot
becoming quasi-reality.

------
zizee
I find it annoying that whenever Soylent is discussed, people always take such
an extreme view of it. Why do so many people frame the discussion with "you
will replace all meals with it".

It's similar to stories about electric cars. Someone will always comment about
how electric cars won't work for people who have to drive 500 km non stop on a
daily basis, therefore they are doomed to failure.

~~~
corysama
Agreed. The stated purpose of Soylent is not to replace all meals. It is to be
a convenient replacement for inconvenient meals. But, that idea doesn't grab
enough attention to sell ad space. Therefore, pretty much every article I've
read about Soylent tries to manufacture controversy around the idea of giving
up on food entirely in favor of brown paste.

That said, when my month's supply arrives, I'm looking forward to giving up
food for a month entirely in favor of brown paste. I see it as a fun
opportunity for an interesting cleanse --not a permanent lifestyle change.

Every report I've read from people trying out a 100% Soylent diet has been
consistent: You feel fine. Your jaw gets stiff from underuse (chewing gum is
recommended). You poop less and less often. The biggest problem is really
social awkwardness. Eating with people is important. It's awkward being the
guy at the table with a bottle of brown paste.

~~~
hessenwolf
Do, please, keep us updated on that experiment. I did not even realise that
Soylent was an actual product (presumably, not made of people) until I read
your comment.

------
BadassFractal
I would personally be happy if I had the option to have a convenient liquid
meal replacement, but I'm also skeptical Soylent is going to be the solution
to it.

There's still too much we don't know about how we get nutrients from food to
be able to fully replace fresh unpackaged products with powders. I suspect
we're still at least a few decades away from being able to do that safely on
the long term.

Nutrition research has been terribly inconclusive for the past century and
there's no indication that this is changing anytime soon. It's not the
researchers' fault: the domain is incredibly complex when you take in
consideration various timespans, all the various human generic permutations
etc.

~~~
meowface
The way I see it is that so many people get by on nutrient-low, unbalanced
diets that it's impossible to know exactly what the optimal combinations of
food to eat really is. Humans are pretty resilient.

I doubt Soylent will be better or worse for you than the diet of a typical HN
user if taken in the long term. Time will also tell: if after 5 years no
adverse health effects are reported after a sufficient number of heavy users
begin drinking it, then that's probably as best a "green light" as one could
ever get.

------
zizee
_Rhinehart is not a fan of farms, which he refers to as “very inefficient
factories.” He believes that farming should become more industrialized, not
less. “It’s really the labor that gets me”_

This seems a little ignorant to me. Farms (at least in Australia) are
amazingly industrialized. I visited my cousin's dairy farm recently and one
person was working at milking dozens of cows at a time.

I walked away with the image that modern farmers are technical early adopters,
looking at ways technology can improve their return on investment.

~~~
phpnode
This is definitely true, look at the rise of John Deere's GreenStar - GPS
controlled tractors and implements which dramatically improve yields. Farmers
are like hackers in many ways.

~~~
dagw
I guy I knew years ago used to work for a software company that sold software
to farmers, and he said he was always surprised by how incredibly high tech
farming and farmers where.

------
bridger
I've been making a homemade version of Soylent
([http://www.cookingfor20.com/2013/06/18/hacker-school-
soylent...](http://www.cookingfor20.com/2013/06/18/hacker-school-soylent-
recipe/)) since September. It makes up one or two of my meals each day. I've
got to say, I really really like it. I think it has a good chance of catching
on. I still love eating out socially, but it has replaced all my my mediocre
meals. I can imagine it replacing those aisles and aisles of junk, easy food
(cereal, canned soup, mediocre pasta).

That said, I quickly had to come up with a better name than Soylent. I call
mine Science (for human consumption). It makes it distinct from food. "Did you
get lunch?" "No, I just had Science today."

------
majkinetor
I hope people do understand that this is short term solution only. Replacing
your all food indefinitely with this is most certainly going to damage you in
a ways you can't know or imagine. Just by looking at the content I can see
that the mix is seriously lacking essential fats, is using very low doses of
some vitamins, particularly C and probably contains substitutes to others like
retinol (beta carotene).

The idea is great in specific context. People have been living on single food
item in multiple occasions so far. CBB to find references for all now, its
easy if you need them but there are known cases of

1\. Potato only for 6 months ([http://goo.gl/XqxMx](http://goo.gl/XqxMx))

2\. Bananas only for months (i.e. extreme '30 bananas a day' diet)

3\. Meat only for a year (Vilhjalmur Stefansson)

4\. Water only for > year (in extreme obese case).

5\. Protein powder only (i.e. Last chance diet, case to the point of what
could get wrong. )

6\. Synthetics only (I am sure Kurzweill probably experimented with this with
his 200++ pills per day).

7\. MC Donalds for a month

... and so on

Its important to note that inventors are young people. Young people are very
resilient - they also have full reserves of stem cells that are used to repair
damage. Soylent might speed up this process because it certainly doesn't
contain 'everything body needs' (because we don't know this at the current
technological level) in which case one theory is that body will use its triage
system (Ames) to redirect resources to the systems that are most important and
shut down or reduce output in less important systems for immediate survival
(such as reproduction). More appropriate would be to say 'everything body
tolerates for a period'. Its certainly far better move then eating only pasta
or rice for entire day.

One may hope that whatever is the eventual damage that could be done to you by
use of this food surrogate is going to be fixed by the future medicinal, yet
to be discovered, techniques.

~~~
ohwp
Also: he ate fastfood for some time, started with 'healthy' Soylent and
noticed he felt better. So I think he got the wrong reference. But ofcourse
there is also a lot of sweet marketing talk in the article.

------
infoseckid
It's like saying sex toys will eventually replace having sex because why waste
time dating, courting and then having sex :) when you could just use a toy +
redtube and get it over with in 10 minutes.

~~~
frik
Watch the Demolition Man " _sex scene_ ":
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80UQWWUIYs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80UQWWUIYs)

[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106697/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106697/)

------
frik
Previous discussions on HN:

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6175079](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6175079)

his blog: [http://robrhinehart.com/](http://robrhinehart.com/)

A short documentary style video:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NCigh54jg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NCigh54jg)

------
Axsuul
This screams link bait title, similar to "The End of the PC". Who knows what
the longterm effects of Soylent are. At best, it's a supplement, and at
worst... I don't even want to know. With that said, Soylent has a potential to
make a big impact. But you can't scream that this is the end of food just
because there is a cheaper and more efficient way of getting your nutrients.
Eating food is a staple of our culture and the way we socialize revolves
around it.

~~~
M4v3R
The article addresses your concerns. First - the author lives almost entirely
on Soylent for the past year and half. The reporter wrote that he looked and
behaved really healthy. Sure, there could be some side effects that will
manifest much later, but to this date it seems that there are none. Second -
he doesn't believe that Soylent will, or should, replace food entirely. He
calls everything else "recreational food" and says that Soylent is a
replacement for frozen stuff that you eat because its cheap and gives you
calories, not for meals in restaurants that are meant to socialize.

~~~
insaneirish
> First - the author lives almost entirely on Soylent for the past year and
> half.

In other words, a sample size of one.

I haven't an opinion on the safety of the product, but a sample size of one
only proves it's not an outright poison. It's likely not actively harmful, but
still, nutrition is a complicated thing.

I just think the whole idea of it couldn't be more depressing. People who
don't get enjoyment out of food freak me out a bit. There are few things I
enjoy more than cooking and eating well prepared food.

~~~
papa_bear
Whether or not it's a sample size of one, it's the longest soylent trial I've
read about so far. You have to start somewhere.

------
jqm
I think Soylent is great idea.

It doesn't have to be either/or and certainly the end of food. I love to cook
and take a lot of care about what I eat. This probably is never going to
change. But on occasion I would love to be able to slurp down a meal and not
have to worry about it. I wouldn't consider living on something like this
though and I don't know why anyone else would either.

------
edanm
_NSFW_

Whenever discussions of Soylent come up, I always wonder - would the same
people who want to take Soylent also agree to taking a people that made their
sex drive disappear? It will definitely save time and money to not have to
worry about sex, after all.

NOTE: This is not a pro- or anti- Soylent sentiment, it's a mind experiment.

~~~
seth1010
Food is more expensive and time consuming than sex.

I've never heard anyone say that sex is a chore, but I often feel that way
cooking food that I don't want to eat, but have to because I'm hungry.

~~~
sz4kerto
Sex is way more expensive. Most of your life's spending is spent indirectly on
sex.

------
sreya
Assuming that it doesn't taste as bad as it sounds, it's likely that this will
just end being a quick meal replacement here and there. I.e. you're pulling a
long night at work and you _could_ order pizza but that's unhealthy so you
whip out a Soylent shake.

It's certainly not a revolution by any means

------
dirktheman
I'm a little concerned about the long-term effects. The article states that
the founder looks and feels healthy, but since he's the only person living off
Soylent for an extended period, this is anecdotal evidence at best. It reminds
me of the death of Seth Roberts, a couple of days ago.

~~~
zavi
Many people eat nothing but unhealthy crap for years and still stay relatively
healthy. Human body is really good at metabolising even a limited variety of
food into many different chemicals it needs. Well-balanced diet hasn't really
been a thing in human history until recently. Mix of nutrients designed to our
best knowledge can't be any worse than eating pizza/fries/burgers/soda 24/7.

~~~
dirktheman
You're reasoning that eating fast food isn't all that bad for you, and for
that Soylent can't be worse? Because there are countless clinical trials and
scientific researches that prove a correlation between fast food and heart
disease, cancer et al. All I'm saying is that for a product like Soylent the
long term effects haven't been studied yet.

To be clear: I'm not biased against Soylent. If it's indeed just as healthy as
regular food it can save a lot of time, and maybe it can even solve some
hunger issues in the third world. I'm merely saying it should be studied more
before jumping on the bandwagon. I mean, it's made by a 25 year old electrical
engineer who failed a cheap cellphone tower startup. In an apartment in The
Tenderloin. If you want to put your life in his hands by all means go ahead,
but I'll just stick with actual food for now, at least until I see the results
of some clinical trials.

On a side note: food as a business is hard. Medicin is even harder. There are
so many rules, regulations, government agencies, etcetera. They're mostly
there for a reason: to keep food and medicine safe. I hope these guys realize
what they're getting into. If there's only a hint of claiming something is
'just as healty as regular food' you're opening a giant can of worms...

~~~
glenra
You know how something gets studied? People _try_ it. There are no "clinical
trials" proving eating grapefruit is safe. Or hot dogs. Or bread. Or any
specific cracker you find in the cracker aisle. Soylent is food. People eat
food; if they like it they sometimes eat more and if they crave something else
they eat something else. This is a non-problem.

> I mean, it's made by a 25 year old electrical engineer who failed a cheap
> cellphone tower startup. In an apartment in The Tenderloin. If you want to
> put your life in his hands by all means go ahead

When you buy a burrito at Chipotle you're eating something that's made by a
19-year-old who's probably failed at something too, but it'd be weird to call
eating that burrito "putting your life in his hands".

------
emilsedgh
I love this idea not because I like to replace my meals with this, but the
fact that it could improve world hunger problem in a big way. Couldn't it?

~~~
DanBC
No.

The world food programme already have a wide range of supplements that are
produced in developing nations and are much cheaper than Soylent.

Note that Soylent requires clean water to mix, and a large proportion of the
world don't have clean water.

------
baddox
The article is dated May 12, 2014. Is that because it's going to be in the
print edition that will be released that day?

------
zizee
money quote from the article:

 _Perhaps the main difference between Soylent and drinks like Ensure and
Muscle Milk lies in the marketing_

It's amazing how taking an old product and repackaging it for a different
purpose can be a source of business success and glory. I believe this is the
story behind both Coca Cola and RedBull.

------
infoseckid
These are what I call "Get me some Press" companies from a VC / YC
perspective. Will make the cover of WSJ ... get a ton of attention to the
company and investors and eventually be dead in 3-4 years.

------
juggty_dev
Food was such a large burden.

------
sanatgersappa
Tasty Wheat.

