
CTRL-Labs: demo of human-computer control using electromyography [video] - startupsilike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WtM1yz34co
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fapjacks
Previous discussion about CTRL Labs [0].

I am very interested in this technology, and I actually went in on the Myo
armband Kickstarter, hoping for something like this. As I've stated in the
previous discussion, I generally like the Myo, but its range of gestures is
narrow and it unfortunately increases my movement cost quite a lot compared to
using some hotkeys.

For input devices, my number one concern is a cost function based on movement.
And a huge penalty is applied to any device that makes me move my wrists off
of my keyboard to use it. So an external mouse on a mousepad? Fuckin' hate it.
The trackpoint on a Thinkpad, though, for example, is at the top of my list of
"novel" input devices that I consider as essential to my computing happiness
as having a keyboard (or any kind of mouse for GUI input). The Myo armband
increases my movement cost quite substantially, so even though I like it and
it's not a scam and it generally does what it says on the tin, it's not
something that I'll use very often, let alone supplant the ole keyboard and
mouse/trackpoint.

I think this technology -- miniaturized and maximally efficient for input
(meaning it has nearly perfect ratio of desired-inputs to actual-inputs with
very few errors) -- could potentially become as useful for me as the
trackpoint. For example, drawing this concept out on a line, I would consider
it a masterpiece of an input device if it were precise, accurate and sensitive
enough to allow me some range of finger motions that allowed me to "type" text
into my phone with one free hand. I'd pay one thousand United States dollars
for that device.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17330239](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17330239)

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anonytrary
> I'd pay $1,000 United States dollars for that device.

That price point probably won't be good enough for the majority of people --
$1000 to do what you can already do with touch on a screen. Maybe $100 would
do it, like a nice pair of earbuds.

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fapjacks
Yes, but I would pay a thousand dollars for that device. And given the
mediocrity principle, I am certain I'm not the only one willing to pay that
much. And if we apply a layer of abstraction and talk about a Google Glass-
like device, then, where there _is_ no screen, I think the number(s) go up,
both in potential customer base and price capacity.

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ethn
Title is incorrect, it uses EMG signals.

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tomhoward
According to this article, it's sensing nerve signals as distinct from muscle
movements:

[https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/6/17433516/ctrl-labs-
brain-c...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/6/17433516/ctrl-labs-brain-
computer-interface-armband-hands-on-preview)

~~~
ethn
That article states over and over that they use EMG.

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tomhoward
Yeah - I wasn't disputing that.

But this paragraph in the article is interesting and noteworthy:

 _CTRL-Labs’ work is built on a technology known as differential
electromyography, or EMG. The band’s inside is lined with electrodes, and
while they’re touching my skin, they measure electrical pulses along the
neurons in my arm. These superlong cells are transmitting orders from my brain
to my muscles, so they’re signaling my intentions before I’ve moved or even
when I don’t move at all._

The point is that it's sensing neural signals, not physical gestures.

So you're right that it's not a brain-computer interface in the sense that EEG
is, but it is still arguably a brain-computer interface, given that what it's
sensing is neural activity generated by brain.

This question is discussed in the article:

 _If CTRL-kit doesn’t directly connect to your brain, is it still a brain-
computer interface? Reardon argues that the armband is giving people better
versions of the same functions they’d get with a headset or implant, using the
same kind of neural signals you’d find in the brain. CTRL-Labs obviously reaps
some publicity benefits by using a hot technological buzzword, but by claiming
the term, it’s also implicitly questioning whether “true” mass-market brain
interfaces even make sense._

It just seems that it's a matter of nuance and interpretation rather than
being clear-cut.

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juancampa
This could be awesome in a connected home. Point-and-think to turn the lights
on or off.

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person_of_color
Interesting. I never thought you could get this much information from EMG,
which is just basically muscle activation amplitudes?

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singularity2001
Can't wait for Apple to make this mainstream in Watch 1X. Together with Apple
AR/VR sunglasses.

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tyger11
Useless description, but it is pretty cool tech.

