

IAmA HS teacher. This is a list of "suggestions" we got in our mailboxes today - jackowayed
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/dk8yp/iama_hs_teacher_this_is_a_list_of_suggestions_we/

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CWuestefeld
When I was in college, many exams allowed the student to bring in a single
sheet of paper with notes. You knew such tests would be hard, because they
wouldn't be testing your _knowledge_ (since you had that written down); they'd
be testing your _understanding_.

There were apocryphal stories of years past, when the rule had sometimes been
"you can bring anything you can carry" (this was decades before WiFi).
Supposedly, one test taker carried in a grad student on his back.

~~~
ajdecon
In my upper-level physics courses, where the exams were mostly derivations and
intense problem-solving, we had a rough guide to exam difficulty:

* One sheet of notes allowed: expect to take close to the full 2 hours alloted.

* Open notes and book: expect not to finish at all, and recalibrate to 75%==A+.

* Take-home exam: feel free to spend 40 hours on this. No one in this class is going to get over a 50% anyway.

~~~
Avshalom
I remember one particular take home test, 25 questions and the prof handed it
to us and said "if any question takes you more than 5 hours you should
probably move on and come back to it later." She full expected us to spend
80-100 hours on the thing (the week before finals too, oh we hated her). I
don't actually know any college student who doesn't cringe at the thought of
take home tests.

EDIT: just to be clear this is meant as commiseration not as a misery dick
waving contest. It was the largest time requirement of any undergrad class I
took in the 5 years I was there.

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mahmud
Let's hope future test packets come with a generic, tear-off job application
form accepted by fast-food chains and the welfare office.

WTF?

On the other side of the spectrum; Cambridge's A-Level course in pure maths
didn't allow us to use nothing more sophisticated than a 4-function
calculator. The test authority gave us trigonometric and logarithmic tables.

For English, you're given just _three_ (3) questions. You had to choose two
and write an essay response for each. You took 2-3 papers.

Here is the list of subjects, look at the curriculum for your favorite subject
and remember this is for high-school students:

[http://www.cie.org.uk/qualifications/academic/uppersec/aleve...](http://www.cie.org.uk/qualifications/academic/uppersec/alevel/subjects)

I tremble in fear every time I remember those days. I went to prep-school
after 2-years of American high school and was crushed by the sadistic
priestess that is British schooling.

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David
As a recent HS grad, these suggestions disgust me. I would have learned
absolutely nothing all four years if these guidelines were followed.

As it is, I could make it through a multiple choice/free response test (with 4
or 5 choices, and open-ended questions) in many subjects knowing less than
half the material going in. Getting an A, mind you. Granted, I'm not the
typical case, but the point is not to have everyone getting easy A's. That's
not why we have school.

School is supposed to be a place to learn to challenge yourself continuously.
It should teach the value of persistence and hard work, because those are
skills that can be learned and will seriously affect the life potential of an
individual [1]. This is a separate consideration than intelligence, which
according to some studies (that happen to agree with my point... don't you
love selection bias?) has a fixed, unchangeable component [2]. The effect of
these suggestions would be to lower the effort bar - more students will be
like me, and have to put very little effort into their schoolwork to get the
grades they want. I did not learn how to work hard (at least from school), and
neither will they.

[1] [pdf] duende.uoregon.edu/~hsu/blogfiles/sat.pdf according to University of
Oregon researchers, high college GPAs are not correlated with high SAT scores.
If we assume the SAT tests what it intends to, the implication of this study
is that hard work can lead to mastery at least as well as intelligence, in
most fields.

[2]
[http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020017191357data_trunc_sy...](http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020017191357data_trunc_sys.shtml)
Neural plasticity implies that you can learn new things, and the rate at which
connections can change determines a "general intelligence factor" commonly
called G.

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yequalsx
I'm a community college teacher and a member of the Board of Regents for my
system wanted to make our pay dependent upon how many people pass the class. I
was praying that his proposal went through.

We get pressure all the time to increase student success. There's no real push
to make sure people know what they are supposed to know. The administration
just wants a high passing rate. Every year my tests get easier. I let people
turn in late work. I give retakes on tests. I'm getting to the point where I
just want to give everyone an 'A' and not give any homework or tests.

~~~
auxbuss
Of course, you're adapting your behaviour to the the metric by which you're
assessed.

Any rational person can determine that the metric is the wrong one.

Except it isn't because the stated goal is to pass as many students as
possible. Probably because that is how the rewards up the chain are
determined, and because there are school league tables whereby the further up
the table you sit the more funding you receive. Or something like that.

Extrapolating your current course of action will result in you simply passing
all students simply for signing up for the course. No need to attend. No need
for the course. Job done.

When setting metrics it is critical to ensure that they provoke the wanted
behaviour. In reality, they very rarely do. Determining people's behaviour is
trickier than it looks.

For a good alternative, take a look at John Seddon's work and his System
Thinking ideas.

~~~
yequalsx
Well, yes the metric is a bad one and has very bad consequences. But I'm not
in a position to fight it. It's a fait accompli at this point. I've lodged my
complaints with my superiors and will continue to lower my standards. Society
- via our elected and appointed leaders - wants passing grades. They sign my
paycheck so that's what they'll get.

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desigooner
I took a course in the first semester of my masters. The professor talked
about the final being an open book exam and someone in the 1st row smiled
happily as soon as she heard that. THe professor noticed it and said "Smile
while you can. People who have taken my courses can attest that a smile's the
last thing an open book exam means here"..

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DevX101
This was brutal to read. The adminisTRators are basically making it "easier"
for students by doing things like changing the number of multiple choice
answers from 4 options to 3 and other such nonsense.

That 4 to 3 option choice reduction, by the way, will increase test scores by
33% for a kid who was just randomly picking answers.

~~~
jackowayed
I think the most appalling to me was open book tests _with page numbers_! I've
taken hard open book tests thanks to a combination of not knowing exactly
where the information is and a serious time limit that doesn't allow you to
spend much time thumbing through the book. But if the test gives you the page
number (especially since teachers probably aren't encouraged to put too much
time pressure on kids either), it's almost certain to be a joke

~~~
boredguy8
If you're testing comprehension, then having a page number doesn't matter. If
you're testing recall, then having a page number hurts.

I mean heck, reading comprehension in standardize tests has the entire
contents on the facing page! Get students used to the environment in which
they'll be tested.

~~~
David
Instead of the environment in which they'll be living?

~~~
boredguy8
Feynman famously bashes recall with his "map of a cat" story (web copied,
emphasis added):

The next paper selected for me was by Adrian and Bronk. They demonstrated that
nerve impulses were sharp, single-pulse phenomena. They had done experiments
with cats in which they had measured voltages on nerves.

I began to read the paper. It kept talking about extensors and flexors, the
gastrocnemius muscle, and so on. This and that muscle were named, but I hadn’t
the foggiest idea of where they were located in relation to the nerves or to
the cat. So I went to the librarian in the biology section and asked her if
she could find me a map of the cat.

“A map of the cat , sir?” she asked, horrified. “You mean a zoological chart
!” From then on there were rumors about some dumb biology graduate student who
was looking for a “map of the cat.”

When it came time for me to give my talk on the subject, I started off by
drawing an outline of the cat and began to name the various muscles.

The other students in the class interrupt me: “We know all that!”

“Oh,” I say, “you do ? Then no wonder I can catch up with you so fast after
you’ve had four years of biology.” _They had wasted all their time memorizing
stuff like that, when it could be looked up in fifteen minutes._

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niyazpk
I for one support the suggestions and I don't have anything against
implementing them in American high-schools, but that may be probably because I
am not American.

Now I would request these people to stop saying that the Indians and the
Chinese are taking their jobs. They are taking your jobs because they are
apparently better educated (for the job). </generalisation>

The new suggestions include some fairly ridiculous points.

>Weigh the merit of using any essay questions at all

Objective-type answering system will seriously affect the way students learn.
I suspect this will dampen creativity in students.

>Offer a maximum of 3 choices

This coupled with the suggestion to avoid negative-marking will make the exams
just a waste of time for everyone involved.

~~~
artmageddon
>Now I would request these people to stop saying that the Indians and the
Chinese are taking their jobs. They are taking your jobs because they are
apparently better educated (for the job). </generalisation>

Wait, so are they, or aren't they? ;)

American here, and software developer specifically. 5-6 years ago there was a
trend in the industry that companies thought off-shoring was the best way to
get the same product for a fraction of the cost. Nowadays, I find that anyone
who still believes that is probably not too bright themselves.

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adbge
If teachers are relying on any of these techniques to make their tests
difficult, they're missing the point of teaching altogether. You _should_ be
testing kids on their grasp of the subject matter and, if they demonstrate
knowledge of that subject, they should receive full credit. Don't penalize
kids for something you're not willing to teach them (complete sentences in a
Chemistry course, etc).

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px
No Child Left Behind aims to shed light on poor performing schools in part by
requiring them to elevate graduation rates in order to meet "adequate yearly
progress" goals.

Many schools are addressing the perceived urgency of these federal mandates by
doing whatever they can to get the kids out the doors in four years.

~~~
easp
Or even sooner, so they don't drag down the averages.

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frust
The suggestions seem absurd. Has anyone considered this being a hoax?

