
Nematode Neural System Uploaded to a Computer and Trained to Balance a Pole - r4um
https://www.tuwien.ac.at/en/news/news_detail/article/125597/
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gambler
I first learned about C. elegans neuron-mapping project from this Society of
Mind video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Px0livk6m8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Px0livk6m8)

My immediate interest was in seeing the differences and similarities between
real and simulated worm. I haven't spent much time searching for resulting
papers, but it's been 7 years since then and I'm not aware of any ground-
breaking publications on the subject.

Unless I'm missing something massive, describing this paper as training the
worm to "balance a pole at the tip of its tail" is highly misleading.

In this paper researchers use an external algorithm to tweak parameters of a
part of worm's neural model until that part can perform a certain task. The
neural circuit effectively serves as a controller for a mechanism that has
nothing to do with the original worm. The task, the setup, the subset of the
model and the training algorithms are all chosen by the researchers.

~~~
mr_toad
From the summary, they’re not altering the topology of the network at all,
just the connection strength between neurons.

While this isn’t the way a natural neural network would learn (I’m not sure a
nematode can learn), it’s still interesting that you can take a copy of a
natural neural network and force it to learn in this way.

~~~
lurquer
I would expect there is an enormous set of random topologies that could be
trained to balance a pole. Indeed, part of the elegant 'magic' of neural nets
is that the topology is fairly irrelevant... the number of layers, the number
of nodes, the manner in which they are connected... pretty much any
configuration can get you into a mid 90% accuracy on MNIST (and emulating a
basic PID algorithm is simpler than MNIST). Of course, I'm referring to basic
tasks; clearly topologies matter a great deal with more sophisticated things.

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grondilu
I vaguely recall that experts consider artificial neural networks to be a very
gross approximation of biological ones. They often state that one reason we
don't have AI today is that we don't really know how the brain and the neurons
it is made of work.

Then I wonder : how does openworm deal with that lack of knowledge? Is there
any chance progress in modeling C. Elegans could be used to improve machine
learning?

~~~
tzahola
We believe that the underlying implementation (biological neuron vs logistic
function) doesn’t matter as long as it has the fundamental properties from
which intelligence can emerge. Like how you can build computers from gears,
relays, vacuum tubes or silicon - as long as you have a transistor-like
nonlinearity to work with, you’re good.

~~~
akvadrako
From what I understand, the complication is that each neurone acts behaves
like a complex neural network by itself, so to get the same overall behavior,
you would need many more fundamental units.

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molyss
It’ll become interesting when we can teach the worm before “uploading”it, and
the resulting NN already knows how to balance that pole without any further
training. As is, The article sounds underwhelming

~~~
gambler
The worm isn't "uploaded". Scientists painstakingly mapped out the physical
structure of its neurons using some genetic engineering and lasers. This
structure does not change from worm to worm.

~~~
molyss
I'm clear. That didn't prevent the authors from using that term anyway. And in
their title, just to make sure not to confuse anyone.

EDIT : the author(s) of the press release used the word "upload". That term is
nowhere to be found in the original paper as far as I can tell.

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gargarplex
Wait until we can 3D print a C. Elegans. A new kind of matrix printer.

~~~
egeozcan
Maybe The Great Filter (in the context of the Fermi paradox) is this: People
printing their own organisms? (only half-joking)

~~~
sudhirj
More likely people uploading themselves into a virtual world, securing the
planetary data center and dialating time to feel like everyone lives forever
in the manner of their choosing.

~~~
booleandilemma
There’s something sad about a civilization closing its eyes and turning inward
on itself instead of exploring the vast universe that it has been presented
with.

~~~
jonathanyc
“Conquering the galaxy is what bacteria with spaceships would do—knowing no
better, having no choice.”

From Diaspora, by Greg Egan :)

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pwks
A very well written article, simple to understand and short!

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Y_Y
Neural network balances pole while programmers mumble something vague about C.
Elegans. Non-story.

~~~
anewhnaccount2
This uses a more accurate neuron model than your everyday neural networks.

~~~
gwern
Nevertheless, Cartpole is a trivial RL task which only requires a few neurons
to solve, much less hundreds. Since they're training it in silico, I'm not
sure what this demonstrates other than you can cudgel a vaguely spiking-like
neural network into learning a simple task. It's not a C. elegans behavior.

~~~
guskel
Cartpole solved with 1 neuron, no weights.

[https://gym.openai.com/evaluations/eval_A7rFUDisQiOsADyvqYhV...](https://gym.openai.com/evaluations/eval_A7rFUDisQiOsADyvqYhVSA/#reproducibility)

~~~
gwern
I rest my case. :)

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ggggtez
What a confusing title.

Tldr; NN based on real life nematode learned a simple thing.

~~~
mgiannopoulos
This is why I always read the HN comments first. Thank you.

~~~
goblins
Me too, I tend to decide whether to read an article based on the comments. I
find I hardly ever read an article.

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gasull
"Uploaded" no, copied into a perfect or near-perfect simulation.

A perfect copy of an organism is still not the organism, but a copy. Just like
your twin brother is not you. You won't live forever in a computer.

