
Startup behind chewable coffee created a performance-enhancing 'superhuman fuel' - louismg
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-ketone-ester-ketosis-hvmn-2017-10
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Chaebixi
> The drink comes in a bottle about the size of a 5-Hour Energy shot. It's
> clear and has no smell. The taste, however, burns like rubbing alcohol. It
> caused our eyes to tear. We gagged, loudly.

> Still, after a few minutes, our stomachs ached. A flavor like nail polish
> remover lingered on our lips long after drinking and was only extinguished
> with ice water.

Sounds great.

~~~
bdm
Hi, co-founder here.

Yes it does have a kick to it. It's made for performance (is > 98% ketone &
water) not to be the most delicious thing ever.

The writer's response here is totally legit -- but we've also demo'd with pro
athletes, Navy SEAL's, etc. and they just knock it back, no big deal!

~~~
joulesforaloop
So many questions...

Like: when you say "ketone" you mean what kind of ketone/ketone ester...? My
first thought when they complained about it tasting like nail polish remover
was that if it involves acetone, it _is_ nail polish remover.

Second, I wonder what this would be doing to metabolism of other carbs... I've
read that using these ketone esters without decreasing carb intake might
actually make things worse from a certain perspective, metabolically
speaking...

Not a criticism, just kinda thinkin out loud.

~~~
bdm
It is D-BHB, not acetone. [https://help.hvmn.com/hvmn-ketone/what-is-inside-
hvmn-ketone](https://help.hvmn.com/hvmn-ketone/what-is-inside-hvmn-ketone)

When taken with carbs, as was done in the athlete studies, performance output
increases because the body has access to both types of energy. The ketones are
used first, protecting the glucose for later use.

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Floegipoky
My understanding is that many elite-level athletes can still achieve ketosis
while consuming a significant amount of carbs (around what most people would
probably consider normal intake) because they're training so much and burning
so much glycogen.

What happens when it's an average person who doesn't have the same energy
expenditure and metabolic efficiency as an elite athlete?

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bjourne
Here is my personal "this will make you an uber human and you'll code like
Linus Torvalds" trick: whipped cream. Skip lunch, and instead drink 2.5 dl
(adjust according to body mass) of 40% fat whipped cream. You'll kind of feel
disgusting and almost nauseous for 10 minutes afterwards but then you'll have
amazing energy for eight hours or more. Awesome for times when you need to
deep study some complicated topics.

Of course, YOU are not ME. YMMV :)

~~~
bdm
Yes, this is a big part of why people like ketogenic diets and intermittent
fasting. Avoiding carbs, and initiating a state of ketosis, means your brain
is fueled on ketones -- many people subjectively like the feeling.

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noetic_techy
You can already buy KetoKaNa and similar products on amazon, so I don't see
how this is any different, nor innovative.

The article hints to studies, but so far I have not heard of anyone combining
ketone esters with carb rich diets. Typically they are only used to get you
through the slump in ketone production when you first start the keto diet.

It seems this would have been a natural evolutionary path if ketones were
meant to co-exist with carbs. Why is it that your body shuts off ketone
production with carbs present? Why not keep them both available. Circumventing
this without studying the effects first may not be wise.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
If the graph on their website is to be believed, then it (ketone esters)
should be a lot more potent than ketone salts. I have tried KetoCana and I
didn't notice any cognitive difference, or much of a difference in ketones as
measured by my Ketonix (although that measures breath acetone, not blood BHB,
and probably not super accurately).

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cvaidya1986
Seems like this effect can be reproduced by intermittent fasting or a keto
diet.

~~~
bdm
Sort of! You can enter ketosis through IF and keto diet (we run WeFast, a big
facebook fasting group, and I fast 36 hours every week).

What's special about HVMN Ketone is that you can get into ketosis with just a
drink. And it lets you maintain carb levels at the same time, unlike keto diet
& IF, which is a big plus for the sports performance gains.

~~~
stefantheard
Can you provide the research or documentation proving that this drink will
immediately get you into ketosis? How long does it last? Are you actually just
faking out ketone strips for some period of time?

Can I eat carbs every day but drink this and stay in ketosis? That seems
really unlikely.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
The graph on their website (if to be believed) shows a comparison between
their ketone ester and a ketone salt.

Also, if I remember correctly, ketone esters were originally developed for use
in rebreather SCUBA diving. The concentration of oxygen makes seizures much
more likely. Since ketogenic diets are useful for preventing seizures, the
military wanted a "ketogenic diet in a pill".

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pdog
A ketogenic diet stimulates your body to produce ketones, which seems
preferable to drinking something which tastes like "rubbing alcohol" with a
"nail polish" aftertaste.

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40acres
I've done Keto several times, and while the results were always fantastic the
hardest thing is that 3-4 day period where you need to watch what you eat to
enter ketosis, one false move can reset your progress and really discourage
you; however for me once I'm in ketosis I'm pretty disciplined at keeping it
up.

If this drink can get me into ketosis quickly and allow me to maintain it by
following the regular diet then I'm sold. I'll definitely be keeping an eye
out.

~~~
bdm
Good to hear about your experiences with keto. I do cyclic keto, going into
ketogenic diet for periods and then coming back to "normal" (still relatively
low carb). Cyclic keto has shown benefits, and it doesn't have the trade-offs
of going full keto.

For people who struggle with symptoms of keto flu (ie, those ~3 days ramping
up to the keto diet, and blood glucose is low but the body is not yet
producing ketones in high levels) the drink could help alleviate this as
people transition.

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neves
I've been going in the opposite direction. Last year I've bought an aeropress
coffe device to improve my coffee at work. Last week I've started to use a
manual grinder so I can use high quality whole beans. My morning and after
lunch coffees are my personal rituals.

A chewable coffee looks completely detestable. :-)

~~~
tedmiston
I've tried the Go cubes. I wouldn't really think of them as a replacement for
a nice cup of coffee. They're more "I need this caffeinated burst and I don't
want to deal with going to a coffee shop or grinding/brewing/etc". More like a
way to get effects of coffee or an energy drink without coffee.

It's sort of like how Soylent Coffiest is a coffee alternative with other
things that reduce the downsides of coffee, but it's "meta coffee", not
exactly coffee.

By the way, another alternative to preparing your own coffee by hand that's
good is Sudden Coffee. It's an instant coffee that's like a freeze dried pour
over.

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nxsynonym
As someone who practices IF semi-strictly, is there any benefit to taking this
while maintaining a low level of carb intake? Or is it's ideal use case for
someone who wants to get carb intake levels higher?

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sjg007
Man slow down and drink a cup of coffee.. enjoy life!

