
Apple Isn't Your Friend - coldseattle
https://gizmodo.com/apple-isnt-your-friend-1826611293#Bro
======
scarface74
It's not that I think Apple is my friend, thier business and my interest
align. I pay them money and they give me stuff. My iPhone doesn't have carrier
crap, the Mac doesn't have any crapware on it.

~~~
jayd16
I don't really get this logic. If your usage and data is worth something to
Apple's competitors, its worth something to Apple too. Sure, "if you're not
paying you're the product not the customer" but you could pay and still be the
product all the same.

~~~
jorvi
I find this pretty strong proof:
[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2018/05/04/as...](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2018/05/04/asked-
apple-everything-had-me-heres-what-got/558362002/)

For those not clicking: the article writer did a (I think, not entirely
certain) legally binding request for the data Google, Facebook and Apple have
on him. Google delivered a 243Mb zip, Facebook a staggering 881Mb and Apple
just 9Mb.

~~~
bitmapbrother
Proof of what? That Google includes your Gmail, Gmail attachments, Photos,
Videos, Music, Drive files, etc in their data exports.

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googlemike
_Let’s just get the obvious stuff out of the way and acknowledge that multi-
billion-dollar companies don’t have fundamental values outside of doing what
best benefits their shareholders. There’s no reason to believe Tim Cook lacks
his own genuinely held beliefs that are nice and altruistic, but major
corporations are more like nation-states today._

Agreed. Anyone who thinks of corporations (or nations) as their personal
"friend" is most likely a tad confused. However, corporations are still
entities with which you can interact in the real world. This means the level
of trust with which you interact with said corporations is up to you. I am
personally far more comfortable sending messages on iMessage w/ an iPhone,
than with say Skype or Facebook Messenger.

~~~
bradgessler
One should not assume Apple is taking a strong position on privacy and
security for altruistic reasons.

I assume they are competitively positioning themselves against Google,
Facebook, etc. and will hopefully be rewarded by the market as more people
wake up to the importance of privacy and security being designed into their
hardware and software.

Apple is simply betting that privacy and security is great for business. No
more. No less.

~~~
crazygringo
Which is what makes me trust it the most.

When someone takes an altruistic stance, it's easy for them to change their
mind later if they decide $$$ is more important.

But when I see that an organization's actions align with their profit
motive... then I find it much easier to rely on them, at least as long as I
expect their position relative to the market/competition to remain
qualitatively the same.

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saagarjha
Sure, Apple may not be my "friend". But its competitors clearly make money by
violating my privacy, and Apple doesn't, so it's clear why I would choose
them.

~~~
wolco
It's competitors include linux. That surely is the most privacy friendly
option. You have to trust apple but when you use open source you can trust
yourself or the community.

~~~
saagarjha
Would you really consider Linux to be a serious competitor? Sure, it's the
most privacy friendly, but that's ignoring the fact that privacy is a sliding
scale. Apple has generally shown itself to be on closer to the Linux end of
the scale than the Android one, so I compromise some of that trust for
increased convenience.

~~~
reitanqild
> Would you really consider Linux to be a serious competitor?

Can only speak for myself but I much prefer Linux and even if I had to pay for
it that would be my preferred choice.

As for why I'm a heavy multitasker and a keyboard addict and in my three years
with a Mac I realised it wasn't for me. (If anyone is interested, feel free to
ask.)

Do I say Mac is bad? No. I guess more people should use Macs.

Is Linux a serious competitor? For some of us: definitely.

~~~
themoat
Hey, I'm curious now. I'm a keyboard addict, but I typically use a mac at work
and windows at home. I have previously used linux, so I have nothing but love
for it, but how does it enable me as a keyboard enthusiast in a way I'm not
getting with osx or windows 10?

~~~
reitanqild
Windows have been very easy for me to use wrt keyboard. (I had other issues
with it.)

On Mac I had three big problems and one small:

\- ctrl and fn was swapped on the laptoo and I configured a lot of non Mac
machines as part of my job so I could never relearn that part permanently.
Also their own full size keyboard had ctrl in the usual spot

\- cmd-tab made me think way to often. I might be a bit impatient yes, but
there is something good about being able to go back to any window with just
one keyboard combo instead of alt-tabbing to the correct group then alt-| to
the correct window.

\- the "jumping a word at a time" shortcut was inconsistent between apps. IIRC
some used alt-arrow, some fn-arrow, some cmd-arrow, some ctrl-arrow. Also the
lack of home and end keys broke my workflow. (I think some of these are fixed
now and I also hear rumors that fn and ctrl can be swapped with some tool now)

\- inside applications I'd struggle to access settings etc without reaching
for the touchpad.

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cromwellian
I think better evidence is just to point out what Apple is doing in China when
principles and money go head to head. Apple has acquiesced to censorship of
VPN apps by the government as well as turned over iCloud to be hosted on
servers owned in part by the PLA.

Apple could have refused, and gotten banned from the domestic Chinese market,
but they made a decision to damage the liberties and privacy of their
customers there, because the market is worth a lot to them.

Cook even IIRC, humiliated himself by praising the CP management of the
internet in China at a conference there.

Edit, QUOTE: "During his speech, Cook declared that China’s vision “is a
vision we at Apple share.”

“The theme of this conference — developing a digital economy for openness and
shared benefits — is a vision we at Apple share,” he proclaimed. “We are proud
to have worked alongside many of our partners in China to help build a
community that will join a common future in cyberspace.”"

~~~
tfehring
Frankly, as an American, why should I care about this as far as my own privacy
is concerned? Of course Apple has a price for which they’ll “sell” user data,
but all that this says is that that price is less than the profit that it
makes off of those users...and that seems like a pretty obvious upper bound.

~~~
pritambaral
As neither an American nor a Chinese national, I think you should care because
if Apple can do X with the Chinese government, Apple can do it with America
too.

I'm not saying it has. I'm not saying it will immediately begin doing so. But
there's clearly a limit where they will, and all America has to do is push it
to that limit. American governments and American intelligence agencies have
shown repeatedly (via gag orders and secret courts) that they're not above
making companies spy on their users (domestic and foreign) and forcing them to
stay mum about it.

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zaroth
I love to see Cook doubling down on their branding as a privacy-centric
company. The work Apple has done to bring usable security and end-to-end
encryption to the masses is, IMO, Nobel worthy.

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Dravidian
Guys, please don't be so naive to forget Apple was indeed part of PRISM
program.

If Apple gets free chit because they said they didn't know about the program,
then so does Google & Facebook.

IMO, any multi-billion $ company with cash balance higher than several
countries put together; does have bones under their rug.

~~~
saagarjha
Like you said, there are very few companies who have done nothing wrong. But
there certainly are companies who are better than others, and it's fine to
praise them for that, just as it's fine to call them out for their mistakes.

~~~
Dravidian
You're correct. But I feel that the innate californification of Apple along
with systemetic PR showing Apple to be saviour of privacy is stopping privacy
enthusiasts from putting Apple into same rigor as we do for Google, Facebook.

~~~
saagarjha
> the innate californification of Apple

?

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shiverflame
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get what this is doing on HN. as far
as I can tell this is just a long winded rant about the ad industry. The
writer of which assumes he knows Apples morals, motives & business schemes. It
doesn't give us any good reason to distrust apple other than that they are
profiting from Facebooks recent scandal(s)

& I say this as a Linux user, I am no fan of Apples closed system ideology

~~~
saagarjha
It's a privacy argument: Facebook has a track record of violating it, and
Apple has done things to protect it. It's your choice if that's something that
matters to you.

~~~
pritambaral
Apple has also done things to violate it (see Apple's compliance with the
Chinese government). The difference between Facebook and Apple is that
Facebook's primary business objective is making money off people's data, not
that Apple will never violate their users' privacy.

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satyajeet23
Gizmodo is still not over with Apple! I noticed this so many times. After the
lawsuit between Apple and Gawker media - which is the parent of Gizmodo -
they've been acting like this.

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jeffbax
In what deranged worldview is US Telecom an example of the “free market” at
work? I think the author needs to look up what that term means and how tightly
related and crony the industry is.

Another sterling example of millennial clickbait “journalism”

------
ytch
>To be clear, we have no certainty of what Apple’s grand plan is

Sp, the author don't know what apple want, just a conspiracy theorist? But
under the same argument or deduction, any company isn't my friend, this author
is not my friend, too.

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lord_ring_11
Didnt the article just say iAd failed because apple held high standards unlike
cheaper ad prociders like g and f? Now he is comapling that apple lets
customers down?

