
Want: The airbag scarf that replaces a bulky bicycle helmet, inflates in 100ms - sethbannon
http://sub.garrytan.com/want-the-airbag-scarf-that-replaces-a-bulky-bicycle-helmet-inflates-in-100ms-to-save-your-noggin
======
DanBC
With safety equipment I tend to prefer simpler designs. A lump of polystyrene
in a shell is pretty good, and doesn't have loose wires or flat batteries to
worry about. It's a lot cheaper too.

But the problem with traditional helmets is that they tend to be built to pass
a safety standard. Some people want the helmet that is much better than that
standard.

So it's nice to see someone experimenting with new techniques.

~~~
brianwawok
Helmets do not do as much as you think. They are not really very good for the
types of accidents that bicycles have. For example, see:
[http://www.bicycling.com/senseless/index.html](http://www.bicycling.com/senseless/index.html)

~~~
gambiting
I don't know, I have personally fallen off a bike travelling at around 25km/h
and hit the side of my head on the pavement. If I wasn't wearing my helmet(and
that was a regular, $40 helmet) I don't know if I would be still here - the
helmet cracked,but my head was still completely intact,so I guess they have to
work to some extent.

~~~
apendleton
Argh, this kind of anecdotal evidence makes me crazy. Helmets aren't skulls.
You have no idea whether the forces that caused the helmet to crack would have
caused similar injury to your head had you not been wearing the helmet, nor do
you have any idea whether the forces the helmet managed to absorb before
failing are a significant fraction of the forces your head experienced during
the accident. Nothing about your experience is sufficient grounds for the
conclusion you draw at the end of your comment (that "they have to work to
some extent"), nor can any single accident experience provide such grounds.

~~~
kennywinker
I personally know people who object to helmets, and refuse to wear them even
though we have a helmet law in my city.

I'm not entirely in agreement, but there is logic to this line of reasoning:

1\. Helmets, and helmet laws give the impression that cycling is a dangerous
activity, and discourage people to cycle.

2\. the biggest thing you can do to increase the safety of cycling, is create
cycling infrastructure and put more cyclists on the road (I believe this is
backed up by hard data, but I have no citations).

3\. It follows from 1 & 2 that helmet laws make cycling less safe for all of
us by decreasing the number of cyclists on the road.

There is more to their argument than that, but that's the one I personally
find most convincing. I still wear a helmet though, so clearly I'm not
entirely convinced.

~~~
001sky
As a side note, research has shown it may be safer in the sense that drivers
give more birth to helmet-less cylclists. They see those with helmets as more
professional and better equipped, and apparently pass them at higher speeds
and closer clearances.

[http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf](http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf)

As for a more broad discussion on the topic, outlining both sides of the
debate:

[http://www.cycle-helmets.com/helmets-uk-dec-2012.pdf](http://www.cycle-
helmets.com/helmets-uk-dec-2012.pdf)

~~~
vectorjohn
I don't give 2 shits about the drivers that pay enough attention to see what
I'm wearing. I care about the drivers not even looking.

------
melpomene
Working at a local hackerspace in Malmö (Sweden) a few weeks back a girl came
in with one of these and complained that it was annoying that it kept poking
her in the neck all the time. When she pointed to where it was itching it
accidentaly exploded around her head. Sounded like a gunshot. No one was hurt,
many where shocked. Better safe than sorry I guess.

------
js2
Articles about this helmet have made it to the front page a few times. Here
are a couple submissions with comments:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1828134](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1828134)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4388056](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4388056)

And apropos, "Bicycle helmets haven't changed since their introduction" \-
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5901164](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5901164)

------
PhasmaFelis
As a cyclist, I could point out that relative to a normal helmet this thing is
hugely expensive and very prone to user error (must be charged, must be turned
on). But I could live with both of those things. The real deal-breaker is that
it doesn't look any more _comfortable_ than a regular helmet.

Cycling on a hot day, my scalp gets all sweaty and uncomfortable, but at least
the helmet has big air vents to minimize overheating. You want me to replace
that with a thick, bulky _scarf_? No. In July, I'd be miserable after 10
minutes.

------
msvan
[http://hovding.com/en/](http://hovding.com/en/)

This is the official site. They seem to have tested the safety rigorously.
And, best of all, it's Swedish design!

~~~
scoofy
As someone in the cycling community, this isn't actually a new thing. It's
been for sale for years.

------
imgabe
That doesn't seem all that less bulky than a regular helmet. Plus, you have to
keep it charged. Sometimes low-tech is better.

~~~
specialp
Not to mention that if I were riding in the summer there is no way I would
want something wrapped around my neck as it would decrease my ability to cool
myself down. Sure, having something on your head is not much better but
helmets these days have quite good ventilation.

~~~
vacri
There is a social problem with helmets in that people who don't want to mess
up their hair or makeup don't like wearing them. I don't particularly like the
idea of relying on a battery-powered barrier device, but for someone who won't
wear a helmet, this product is better than not wearing anything.

------
revelation
Bicycle helmets are just bizarre. No one wants to admit that the problem is
with 5 ton liquid fuel propelled potential wrecks and their woefully
inadequate (both in what nature has granted them for the task and their
attitude) drivers.

Give me proper streets, not pyrotechnic strapped to my neck.

~~~
btgeekboy
Helmets have saved my life not once, but twice. Both times were off road, at
slow speeds, doing things that shouldn't have been a big deal. Neither
involved any cars, but one resulted in a concussion and the other a severely
sprained neck and a root canal. Both helmets were shattered.

Cars are _a_ problem, not _the_ problem.

------
hengheng
What if you land on a pointy surface ... gravel, sand or sharp stones? Sure
it's good protection, but let's think this through first.

(I am convinced that regular bicycle helmets are crap, as there are no decent
standards or crash tests being done with them. The least I would call an
improvement is a downhill helmet, a motorcycle helmet would be preferred as
speeds for severe crashes are quite similar.)

~~~
DanBC
What is wrong with all the various standards? Are they just not rigorous
enough? Or is there some other problem?

Here's a quick list of different information I found
[http://www.bhsi.org/index.htm#standards](http://www.bhsi.org/index.htm#standards)

~~~
brianwawok
See my link above. Normal helmets do nothing to prevent concussions, which is
one of the major outcomes of a bike crash.

Stop broken skulls, great. But concussions are still very possible, and
current helmets do not do much for it.

~~~
patdennis
No helmet can stop concussions. If they could, the NFL would redesign football
helmets and save themselves a lot of trouble. G-forces are G-forces, whether
you're in a helmet or not.

EDIT: There are a lot of very smart people working on this problem. But it's a
hard problem.

From the Associated Press:

In a series of interviews with The Associated Press, representatives of the
NFL, its players' union and the four equipment companies that make every
helmet worn in the league all agreed there's no football helmet -- in
production or on drawing boards -- that can eliminate concussions. And there
might never be one.

[http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5797046](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5797046)

~~~
SamReidHughes
Helmets could spread the impulse over a longer period of time, reducing
G-forces.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Doesn't a [more] deforming helmet like that in the OP do just that?

------
MichaelGG
Very very cool. Although it seems it wouldn't help if something runs into your
head before impacting your bike or body. Like a truck with a high bumper. Or
entering a free-fall and landing on your head. But I suppose those are
relatively few of bike incidents.

~~~
crisnoble
Yeah I thought about hitting a tree branch across your forehead, the collar
would not be aware of the impending impact.

------
snitko
And that's why we have regulations. So people can only purchase an innovation
that not only looks great, but is actually more effective, in like 2 to 5
years which it will take to approve it.

------
xbryanx
I'd be really curious to see video of how this works with some common "updo"
hairstyles. My girlfriend wears her helmet most of the time. But if we're
going out for a nice dinner, she'll wear her hair up in a bun on top of her
head. If we're on bikes ( a common event ) she generally skips the helmet to
accommodate her hairstyle. I wonder if this inflatable helmet would get hung
up on this wad of hair and prevent full deployment.

------
arjn
This is neat but some potential problems with it.

\- Will not protect from things falling on the head

\- May not protect in a direct impact (head-on) collision where the head may
hit something before the person falls because it may not deploy in time.

------
beloch
The website raises a few red-flags about Hovding for me.

1\. It must be charged to operate.

2\. It has an on/off button even when charged to ensure it doesn't
accidentally inflate when you're putting it on, suggesting this is a problem.

3\. Once inflated, it's done. You have to buy a new one. The website suggests
your insurance may pay for this, which implies they definitely won't even if
it did not inflate in an accident.

This is certainly an interesting concept, but it's expensive, has two
additional points of failure vs a helmet (must be both charged and switched on
to work), has a high probability of inflating when it shouldn't, and isn't
reusable. Technically, most bike and snowsports helmets aren't reusable after
an impact either, but you can certainly wipe-out in a way that would trigger
the Hovding but wouldn't cause a head-impact, thus wasting the Hovding in an
accident a helmet could come through unscathed. I can certainly see why this
isn't catching on.

This kind of helmet, with modifications, _would_ be good for back-country
skiing, more for avalanche protection than for impact protection. Suffocation
is a major cause of death in avalanches. When you are pulled under, snow
generally gets everywhere and, once you stop, freezes fairly solid. Even
wearing very warm gear you don't have much longer than 15 minutes before
hypothermia will kill you (being packed in snow crushes your insulation and
greatly increases the rate of thermal conduction to the ice surrounding you),
but you can easily suffocate before that. This is why things like avalungs are
fairly popular. However, avalungs are basically useless if you aren't very
careful about keeping them in mouth-range (if not actually in your mouth) at
all times, because you will _not_ think to move it over from its convenient
spot on your shoulder when an avalanche is bearing down on you, and you will
_not_ be able to grab it from your shoulder once you're immobilized by snow!

An inflatable hood that covers the face during impact and then deflates could
automatically produce a bubble of air large enough to keep an avalanche victim
from suffocating for 15 minutes, which is hopefully long enough for his AST
trained buddies to find and dig him out! There are currently avalanche air-
bags on the market which can be user-triggered. These air-bags supposedly help
one float on top of an avalanche in addition to providing protection, which is
obviously a good thing! However, they _must_ be triggered, and generally don't
come over the head. Something that would trigger automatically would be
invaluable, although the difficulty of only triggering when appropriate is
immense! If hovding's triggering system could work reliably in avalanche
conditions it might be worth adding to avalanche air-bag units. I'd love to
see radio controlled airbags in addition to automatic and manual controls
though. This way, if your buddy is being swept away by an avalanche you might
actually be able to trigger his bag even if he doesn't think to. This would be
fantastic for heli/cat-ski operators as well.

Avalanche safety is a _much_ higher price-point market than bicycle safety.
It's a better target market for bleeding edge tech like hovding. If you could
deliver a system that is reliable, even at a price-point in the thousands of
dollars, cat/heli-ski operators would go for it immediately.

~~~
ScottBurson
(1) Yeah, like a headlight, like a phone, ... keeping widgets charged is a
routine part of modern life.

(2) Remembering to turn it on after putting it on doesn't sound difficult to
me.

(3) I've done a fair bit of bike commuting, and though I always wear a helmet,
I've never been in an accident in which I needed it. Statistically, I would
expect this would never go off while I owned it; maybe once. The fact that I
would have to replace it if it did is not a barrier at all.

I think you're dismissing it unreasonably.

~~~
mikeash
Regarding #1, how many items do you have to keep charged where their charge
state does not affect their normal operation, but can be life and death in
certain cases? Both this and #2 are recipes for screwing up, because there's
not much indication when you've done so most of the time. Even if we dismiss
operator error, what are the odds you'll fail to notice it if the charger or
the power switch break?

~~~
ScottBurson
> Regarding #1, how many items do you have to keep charged where their charge
> state does not affect their normal operation, but can be life and death in
> certain cases?

I have something that is not at all life-and-death, and only needs to be
charged once a month. I've been pretty good about keeping it charged. In the
case of something more consequential, I have no doubt I would keep it charged.
The device has a charge state indicator that looks like it would be a pretty
good reminder.

Did you see the part where it makes a sound when you turn it on? Looks to me
like Hövding have thought this through pretty well.

~~~
mikeash
All that, and you're not going to even say what the device is? Don't make me
guess....

~~~
ScottBurson
It really doesn't matter what it is. I hardly ever use it. The only reason to
charge it every month is to keep the battery from going bad.

All that, and you're not even going to say whether you looked at the Hövding
website?

------
melpomene
"Testing by the Swedish insurance company Folksam that compared Hövding to 12
conventional helmets found it performed at least three times better than the
other helmets in a drop/hit test for shock absorbance"
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2013/04/04/meet-t...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2013/04/04/meet-
the-girls-who-want-to-sell-you-an-invisible-bicycle-helmet/)

------
probably_wrong
Given that the general idea looks fine, and I'm all in for anything that
improves safety, I'll nitpick.

In the last test, the dummy' face (if it had one) ends up all over the floor,
as the helmet only protects the forehead and, furthermore, slides a little.
Given that regular bike helmets are longer on the front and rigid, in theory
only the chin would hit the floor. Thus, a regular helmet would be better in
that case.

Can anyone confirm or deny if that would be the case?

------
wazoox
Funny, I've just finished Neal Stephenson's "Snow crash" and that's what the
skaters are using instead of helmets in the book.

------
xj
Watch the video again.

Go to 00:38, and assume that the dummy was hit by a lorry with flat face. The
lorry would make a direct impact on the back of the head, before the helmet
inflates.

Go to 03:55, and assume that the cyclist had hit a wall. This time too, the
cyclist's head would hit the wall.

I wouldn't buy this helmet.

------
headgasket
This would be awesome if it had a detector of coughing patterns indicative of
water entering lungs (quite distinctive if you think of it): it would be
selling like hotcakes to parents of young children learning to swim or going
to camp.

~~~
toomuchtodo
An accelerometer would be able to detect the unique thrashing signature of a
body trying to stay above water; it differs greatly from swimming or kicking
to stay afloat.

~~~
patdennis
If you're putting it on a toddler, why not simply have it activate when it
detects water?

~~~
magoldbe
this exists. [http://www.safetyturtle.com/](http://www.safetyturtle.com/)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
If they want to actually sell any they should put a video demonstrating the
product on the front page and not limited by being Apple Quicktime only nor
hidden behind a "super nanny" logo.

------
dchichkov
Interesting. I can see how it may work for deep powder skiing.

As to biking, there is a pretty nice alternative available based on
plastic/gel materials that harden on the impact! Lookup 3DO beanie.

------
skreech
Here is a user test from an early adopter:
[http://alfabravo.com/2011/11/hovding/](http://alfabravo.com/2011/11/hovding/)

------
caycep
OK, did anyone else think that crash test dummy was cool? There are now
bicycle crash test dummies!

And they fitted it out with Portlandesque hip bicycle clothing too....

------
scoot
Innteresting concept, but I'm even more interested in what sort of valve
technology can contain a gas under pressure, and release it electrically.

------
Segmentation
Are Swedes actually that concerned with their cycling appearance?

A nice helmet (I use the Giro Aeon) and cycling glasses looks good enough.

~~~
potatolicious
Part of it's practicality. In NYC we now have a bike share - grab a bike from
any station, ride around, return to any other station. Frequently I'm out and
about and feel the need to grab a bike and do something - but I don't because
I don't have my helmet with me.

At the same time, I really don't want to have to lug my helmet around
everywhere just in case I want to take a short ride.

Having a compact "helmet" all the time that takes up next to no space (and is
inconspicuous to boot) would be very nice.

When cycling is a sport/deliberate activity, rather than a transportation
method/incidental activity, the dynamic changes.

------
websitescenes
The only purpose I can think of for this is to keep your hair all pretty. No
serious cyclist would use this. Specifically, I ride downhill bikes and can
guarantee I'd be dead already if I were to wear this for protection. With a
real (full face) helmet, I have already endured multiple concussions, a broken
neck and countless other injuries to the head/neck area so consider me a
qualified test dummy.

~~~
jzwinck
Obviously you are not the target market. Impacts are expected in downhill
riding, unlike most forms of cycling. You don't see off-road car racers
relying on airbags either--they aren't fit for the purpose.

~~~
websitescenes
It's just not safe. To use this would be trading safety for looks. If you ride
a bike at all, you should plan on going down.

~~~
ScottBurson
I commuted by bike for years (though not so much in recent years) and have
never had an accident at speed.

I do wear a helmet, but not a full-face helmet, and it looks like this thing
would actually be more effective in protecting against concussions.

~~~
websitescenes
From this comment, it is obvious you do not do a real commute. I have worked
at various bike shops throughout my life and most recently I own one. Almost
every commuter or road cyclist I have ever spoken too has been hit by a car,
hit a car or been in a serious wreck at least once. If they had been wearing
this silly contraption then many of them would not still be riding today. It
is just absolutely ridiculous unless your priority is looks.

~~~
ScottBurson
> If they had been wearing this silly contraption then many of them would not
> still be riding today.

What are you basing that on? Did you actually look at the product's website?
Do you have some reason for thinking the product doesn't work as claimed?

~~~
websitescenes
I checked it out pretty thoroughly. All the wrecks they test are best case
scenarios. Put some obstacles in the way of the fall and results will
dramatically change. Anything remotely sharp would end this holiday.

~~~
ScottBurson
> All the wrecks they test are best case scenarios.

I didn't see a comprehensive list of scenarios. Are you referring to the
3-minute video? I don't think that was intended to show "all" the cases they
tested.

I guess the thrust of your criticism is that it doesn't protect against all
possible accidents. Surely you're aware that a helmet doesn't either. (A
friend of mine died in a bike accident -- his helmet was insufficient. I don't
know enough of the details of the accident to hazard a guess as to whether
this device would have worked better.) Probably, there are some accidents
where a helmet would work better, but I have no problem believing there are
many where this device would perform better. (It's much larger, when inflated,
giving it much better cushioning ability. Helmets, as noted elsewhere in this
thread, aren't very good at preventing concussions -- I expect this device
would be much better.)

~~~
websitescenes
Precisely my point. Not even a real helmet is 100% and there is no way this is
as good as a real helmet. Just no way. Also there is a chance of failure if
your power source or gyroscope malfunctions. Why would you take that chance?
For nice hair? Not a good idea.

------
mllobet
Anyone knows if it is legal in Europe? I've searched extensively to no result.

------
kirk21
Should be placed in the steer. Would forget to wear it after 5 times...

------
lquist
Why not have this cover more of the body? E.g. a vest or something?

------
alex_doom
Only thing I can't figure out is if it's reusable?

~~~
sukuriant
real helmets aren't reusable after a real accident, so probably not; that
said, I have no idea

~~~
alex_doom
Sure a bad accident they get destroyed. But what happens if you fall off your
bike over something simple and not even get a scratch. Helmet will still work
fine. Will this get set off for minor things? And if there's no damage can it
be reset? Seems like an expensive $500 helmet that would only be useable once.

------
brianbarker
Just don't forget to keep the batteries fresh, I guess.

