
Is The Silicon Valley Talent Shortage Getting Worse? - kacy
http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/09/arms-race/
======
iamelgringo
Running Hackers and Founders Silicon Valley, I get asked all the time if I
know of people who are looking for work, and startups are having to work
increasingly hard to hire. A few months ago, I was offered a $5k referral
bonus for a Python/Django engineer. ( That's not the business I want to be in,
btw. And it's not why I do H&F. )

There's easily been 100 startups getting angel money in the Valley in the last
5 months. And, if all of those are looking for 2-3 RoR/PyDjango/JQuery/iOS
devs, that means startups alone are competing for 300 engineers. And, that's
not mentioning Yelp, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Zynga, Google. The Valley
could easily accomodate 1000 new engineers in the next 6 months.

From what I've seen of the Hackers and Founders NYC scene, the situation is
similar, except startups have to compete for engineering talent with finance
companies, which pay a lot better than your average startup.

What does that mean? Founders, always be hiring. Devs, our value as an
engineer is going up. Founders, build on more productive languages/platforms.
Dev, consider joining a startup as an angel investment where you're pouring in
time and effort instead of cash. So, interview a lot, and join carefully.

~~~
lbrandy
I suppose by the mathematical nature of the situation, people and their social
graph end up at one of the two "equilibria". 1) either they know a bunch of
people who can't find any good people to hire, or 2) they know a bunch of
smart people who work at crappy jobs they'd love to leave.

I have a group of friends (from University of Florida) who mostly graduated
just before the west coast was really recruiting there. One works at HP doing
server stuff, but that's about as "far" as they got. Another one is the
smartest dude at his job at bigco where he puts out fires of bad devs every
day, cleaning up $20,000 contracting messes with one SQL query that no one
there thought could be written.

To these people, trying to get a "cool" job is borderline impossible because,
first, they don't know anyone (their social graph converged the wrong way),
and second the combination of being far-away and having to blindly email
resumes into the blackhole that is domain.com/apply is just plain discouraging
(not to mention ineffective).

I don't know of a good solution to this problem, but if anyone is willing to
relocate some of these people, I might be able to refer some really smart
people ;)

~~~
rgrieselhuber
The best advice I can give to people looking for a "cool" job in the valley is
to simply move there and get to know people. If they aren't willing to take
that admittedly risky step (almost a rite of passage) then the valley might
not be the best fit for them. From what everything on this thread is saying,
this is a great time to do it.

------
nhashem
I have a theory that the dot-com bust in 2000 and the outsourcing/offshoring
hype in 2004ish basically wiped out two generations of computer science
students. I graduated in 2004 and I remember the number of students in my
major decreased dramatically between my freshman and sophomore year (some of
that is the usual engineering major attrition, but I didn't see nearly the
same decline as my friends in electrical/mechanical/etc). A coworker who
graduated in 2007 told me his friends kept telling him to change his major
"because all the jobs are going to India anyway." Meanwhile, the exact
opposite thing happened. Growth on the web continues to explode and the demand
for skill workers to support that growth continues to climb. Could this by why
the shortage seems especially pronounced?

~~~
hga
Could be. For hard numbers, the dot.com/fiber-telecom bust caused MIT's EECS
enrollment to crash from 400 students per class, a number that had been stable
for more than 2 decades, to less than 200. It's now gotten a bit better (a bit
over 200), but no one expects a return to the glory days. As I recall reading
somewhere recently, overall nationally the effect was the same, from 20,000 to
10,000 majors annually granted.

I'd also add one big factor: despite the poo-pooing by some of age
discrimination, it's very real and when your parents or friends of your
parents tell you from _harsh_ experience that your career will be over when
you reach 35-40 years of age, you listen if you have any sense.

Of course, now the name of the game is to get a good starting job, period. I
suspect that has more than a little to do with the slight recent upturn.

------
carterac
The valley?? The real story of talent drought is in New York City. Recently
there has been a gigantic explosion of startups with lots of funding, but
_very_ few great engineers available.

As CEO of a just-funded tech startup, I am budgeting ~70% of my time to
personally recruit a Lead Developer and Senior Software Engineer (despite
having a technical background myself).

~~~
wyclif
It could be because you are not paying enough. NYC is an expensive and
unpleasant place to live for some people, esp. if they are from other cities
in the US.

~~~
jswinghammer
Yeah this was the problem I ran into when I was being recruited by a few
companies in NYC a few years ago. I live in Boston but they weren't willing or
able to help me relocate and weren't willing to pay me anything close to what
I could make at another job here in Boston.

------
seldo
The national unemployment rate is over 9% while Silicon Valley is fighting
tooth-and-claw to hire. What's wrong with this picture?

Software engineering is technical, sure, but it's not _that_ hard -- if some
of the idiots I've worked with in the past could hold down jobs, then anyone
can. Which dying industries should we be looking at to fill the gaps in the
software industry?

~~~
jscore
I have never met anyone who was not technical and then became a coder.

In pre-2000 dot.com you could've gotten a job with a word 'Internet' on your
resume, but nowadays you should at least know decent coding.

~~~
iamelgringo
Mind you, I was programming Basic when I was 7, but I left it behind for
years. I went back to school for software engineering when I was 33. I've been
working as an ER/Critical Care nurse for 18 years.

I'm currently bootstrapping a search engine for economic/financial news at
<http://Newsley.com>. (alpha of search is here: <http://newsley.com/search> )

~~~
benmccann
Your tagging is pretty cool. How'd you figure out for each tag whether it was
a person, country, city, etc.? Did you just look them each up on Wikipedia?
E.g. [http://newsley.com/articles/eu-threatens-to-block-chinese-
bi...](http://newsley.com/articles/eu-threatens-to-block-chinese-bids-for-
public-contracts/24095)

~~~
iamelgringo
It's a semantic web api from Reuters: <http://www.opencalais.com/>

Frankly, it's amazing. There's a sandbox where you can play with it here:
<http://viewer.opencalais.com/> Copy and past a couple paragraphs of text into
the text box, and you can see some of what the api can do.

------
jmspring
As someone who has been an early engineer (sixth employee at two and ninth at
most current) at a couple of startups, watching the current talent situation
is interesting. Companies are definitely hiring with smaller or more agile
companies being more proactive about the diversity of people the bring in.
Some of the larger networking/software firms are continuing to stick to their
laundry lists.

I enjoy seeing the plethora of dmaller startups and the ideas and enthusiasm
they bring. Things definitely have a different feel than dotcom bubble one. I
hope that this job recovery is longer and more sustained.

For me, it is an interesting crossroad - having a house and marital
responsibilities, do I jump on someone else's startup bandwagon again, try and
get an idea funded (knowing angels, etc) or go the big company route to give
personal time to flesh out ideas.

There certainly are options out there.

------
awt
As a programmer it's always fun to be in a good job market. However, I do get
a bit concerned about bubbles when things get overheated like this. I suppose
the best one can do is save for the downturn and build up some great
experience for when the market inevitably gets tougher and the rounds of
layoffs start.

~~~
rrival
Bubble? Overheated? Aren't we recovering from a broader downturn? Or are you
suggesting that we're in the 3rd or 4th quadrant of the VC investment-ease
curve (~2000, ~2007)?

~~~
illumin8
The federal reserve is printing almost $1 trillion in "easy money" that will
be lent out to businesses at close to 0% interest rates. Don't fool yourself
into thinking that this money won't end up creating a bubble somewhere. It
might not be a tech bubble, but it very well could be.

------
mindsetlabs
Companies need to start taking on the virtual office model and start hiring
developers from remote cities and even countries, you miss out on the social
interaction of an office but good developers tend to get more done quicker
when they can work from home and with flexible hours.

------
aberkowitz
If startups branched out from Silicon Valley more often, new technological
epicenters would form, alleviating the shortage.

~~~
LogicX
Right... like the talent shortage is any better in Boston. We've been trying
to hire a Ruby on Rails developer for nearly 6 months: Everyone is happily
employed, or doing their own startup.

~~~
chopsueyar
Have you tried increasing the salary offering, or advertising the position on
the website itself?

------
steilpass
So how do I benefit back from Europe?

~~~
iamelgringo
The engineer shortage will spread. It's hitting SV and NYC first, but give it
a year or two, and you'll see it as well.

------
kacy
Is it time for this soon-to-be computer science grad to move to the Valley? Is
this a good or a bad thing for new grads?

~~~
cageface
If you're looking for a first job then probably yes.

Quality of life for a young, single male in the Valley is pretty low though.
After 10 years in the Bay Area I'm moving to NYC where women actually exist.

~~~
queensnake
'Sunnymale'; 'Man Jose'. (Well /I/ laughed when I heard them :) )

------
flacon
Looking for a developer with startup exp?

I am a developer with startup experience and skill in Ruby, JS, and frontend
technologies. I have 6+ years experience and a BA from UC Berkeley. I created
a post related to this: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1786901>

~~~
percept
If you haven't already, check out Authentic Jobs--they appear to have a number
of remote jobs listed with your skillset:

<http://www.authenticjobs.com/>

Good luck with your search.

~~~
flacon
Thx. Authentic Jobs looks useful. I am currently employed at
wellknownstartup.com and looking for a change. Thanks for the tip.

------
rgrieselhuber
I had emails from 7 different recruiters today so people are definitely hiring
experienced developers right now.

------
Orca
I've noticed a surge in contacts from recruiters, almost daily now from
linkedin asking if I'm looking. Last year was a very different story.

------
colinsidoti
This article seems to imply that "acqui-hires" are a tool to bring in great
engineers, but I feel like Facebook and others are after great entrepreneurs.

Perhaps the final sentence should be changed to: "Now might be a good time to
leave school and start a company."

------
arnorhs
I was contemplating moving to the US to join a startup, but getting a visa is
pretty hard, isn't it? I can get a 3 month traveler's/business visa. Then
there are work permits, etc, right?

So currently, I'm just working on my own project.

------
untamedmedley
There is no pipeline. I see lots of comments about how entry level developers
are useless. No one wants to train the next gen of developers, so companies
are fighting over a smaller and smaller pool of people.

The only way to get any experience seems to be to start your own company.
Which is great for the person who goes off and does it, but not smart for the
company trying to hire them.

If employers don't want to waste money investing in entry-level positions, why
waste it investing in someone who has made it clear they want to work for
themselves?

Pay less, train more.

------
aneth
The developers I know are mostly trying to be founder level at a startup. I
actually feel sorry every time I run into a company trying to hire a Rails
developer because I feel their pain.

What's the solution for you companies desperate to hire? In my opinion, your
outlook on equity needs to change. It's regular practice to offer a "rock
star" developer 0.25% of your pre-diluted shares when you have $2M dollars in
the bank. I've had this debate a number of times with arrogant founders and
been told how that's just the way it is - investors this, B round that, $1B
exit blah. Fine - but your offer is not appealing to me. I can make
$100K+/year consulting part time, usually with a small equity stake, plus have
a founder share of my own startup. Why would I take $100k plus 0.1% to work 12
hours a day at your startup?

Offer several percent, maybe 10% if you don't have a product yet. Get a few
good people committed to your company on the inside. This is particularly true
if you are very early or have a less "cool" startup. You are going to wallow
in crappy developer misery and your product will fail if you don't have
awesome techs who are TRULY dedicated to your vision.

~~~
GFischer
"What's the solution for you companies desperate to hire?"

How about looking abroad? I know, it's fraught with perils, but as someone
from "abroad" from the U.S. point of view, it needn't be that bad.

And your dollars will go a LONG way in hiring top talent (of course, you need
someone local or whom you trust to choose the top talent. 90% of the local
programmers are crappy too!).

~~~
illumin8
You can't hire an H1B unless you are willing to document that you were unable
to find local talent that had the required skill set. HR departments usually
work around this by wording the job requirement in such a way that only their
hand-picked H1B applicant has every exact skill. "Oh, you need a
Python/Django/Ruby/Java guy with 2 years .NET? I just happen to have a resume
with that exact skill set in front of me; so strange that we wrote the job
opening like that...<wink wink>"

Expect to pay about $10-20K extra just to hire an H1B because of all of this
extra paperwork and documentation, as well as hope he wins the H1B lottery.

~~~
hga
WRT to the lottery: it hasn't been so competitive lately:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Quotas_and_changes_in...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Quotas_and_changes_in_quotas)

E.g. (note that the fun begins on April 1):

FY 2009, quota used up in 7 days before beginning the lottery (and as you
allude to, this sort of thing used to be the norm).

FY 2010, quota not used up until December 21, 2009.

FY 2011, quota projected to used up right about now.

------
aneth
I'm an RoR/Java/etc developer/entrepreneur. I get recruited heavily 2-3 times
a week, and yet half my non-tech friends (which comprises most of my friends)
are under-employed or jobless. That dichotomy is disturbing and very difficult
personally to deal with. Here I am making 10 times what the employed ones make
hourly, while talking about making millions on a startup. I try to encourage
them to get some product or internet marketing skills, generally to no avail.

Even so, I feel that web development is a commodity and that to stay ahead I
need to develop a better design and product background.

~~~
Sukotto
I suggest you try to add some high achievers to your circle of friends. People
who are successful in the way you you dream of becoming.

If your current group of friends are not interested in actually working hard
to make those dreams a reality, there's a very real danger they will
inadvertently poison your own chances of success.

~~~
gte910h
He's not exaggerating the market there for people of other skillsets.

Fresh new young people trained in other professions are having a very hard
time of it as their more experienced peers in industry are taking the entry
level positions rather than nothing at all.

Now his friends might be unmotivated tools, have the wrong skillset for the
area in which they live, or any number of things, but the economy is hard for
some highly trained people even these days.

------
sabat
Definitely been seeing a serious uptick in hiring around here -- and I've been
on and off the job market for over a year. Things were looking up last Spring
(around the time I picked up my current consulting gig) but things are
noticeably better now.

I should point out that in normal, 'healthy' years, November is a time of
declining job openings. Companies generally wait until January for budgets to
turn around, etc. Not this year, though.

