

Ask HN: are there tech jobs that require very little time? - BadassFractal

Having been in the startup gauntlet as a CTO for a couple of years now, I&#x27;m finally starting to feel the weight of 60-70 hours a week on my social existence. Having gone through major relationship changes recently (because of the work), and having spent this Thanksgiving, Christmas and NYE at the office working, I&#x27;m starting to reconsider my priorities in light of an ever-advancing age.<p>Hypothetically, if I were to quit and just try to stay afloat for a while <i>optimizing for me time</i>, what could I do? I&#x27;m fairly good at my role and I&#x27;m sure I&#x27;d bring a lot of value to any organization, but I just don&#x27;t want to work more than 5-6 hours a day. Having lived on savings for the past few years, I&#x27;m also very frugal, so I wouldn&#x27;t need much for sustenance. A room with a nice bed and a shared kitchen is probably good enough.<p>What kind of role would you recommend? Any companies out there that can accommodate for that kind of thing? Do I pretty much have to work on my own for that kind of lifestyle?<p>Tips would be really appreciated.
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dirktheman
It's not the role, it's the organization that's the problem. There's an
excellent thread on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7001929](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7001929)

It's more than just about vacation. It's about having a good work/life
balance, something that's oddly missing in a lot of American companies. My
current work/life balance is excellent (I'm Dutch, BTW): I work 4 days a week
as a dev/marketing guy, I get to work from home when I want to and nobody bats
an eye if I take 25 days paid time off a year.

The main thing in my opninion: be crystal clear when you're appplying for a
job that you value your free time. Motivation does not equal time spent at the
jobsite.

There are several companies that have a 4-day work week, Treehouse for
example. Other companies like 37signals also propagate a healthy work/life
balance.

~~~
BadassFractal
It's tough because, at least early stage, you're always on the brink of dying
as a company, so you're hoping that by putting in crazy hours you might have
more shots at survival you otherwise would have.

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andymoe
If you have the skills to charge 125-150/hour or more you could live very
comfortably on 80 hours of work a month (10-12k gross). As long as you can
keep your clients happy in that amount of time. There is other overhead to
this kind of business of course. I'm bootstrapping my startup this way and I
have a family as well.

I guess you could always go work for a big software company as an eng. manager
or whatever. There are orgs out there where 5PM is quitting time believe it or
not. Frankly, as CTO, you should set a better example at your startup. 60-70
hours a week is not sustainable and does not a better company make.

~~~
BadassFractal
Do you know where I could find out more about the kind of work you mention in
your first paragraph? Is this just general consulting or are you thinking of
something in particular? Any chance you might have a blog where you talk about
the experience? Also, any books / reading you might recommend to understand
the field better?

Regarding your second assertion, that's true, there's no denying that. Our
employees actually work normal hours, but as founders we feel guilty not
working insane schedules and it's an attitude I've so far been unable to
defeat at the company.

~~~
vitovito
My attorney is $250/hour, I think? patio11 talked about billing out at five
figures per week:
[https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/consultin...](https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/consulting_1)

My starting figure for freelancing was around $1000/day, as a designer. I've
developer friends whose base rate is $300 and $500/hour. (I've also friends
whose base rate is less.) You could probably go work as a CTO-in-residence
with an incubator, overseeing technology for a stable of startups, just being
a guiding hand. Or do freelance systems architecture design, partner up with a
project manager, oversee complicated system integration contracts for
companies without a lot of in-house skill and overworked IT departments.

But I think the real issue isn't changing jobs, it's changing you. Are you
really going to go work somewhere else and magically not feel like you have to
work an 80 hour week? Normally that's something we put on ourselves, and as a
founder, it's not like there's anyone who will fire you if you don't overwork.
(Practically, this probably means you don't know how to delegate; that's a
skill you'd have to develop, too.)

If you're going to overdo it, in the end, no matter what, then you have to
take the initiative to change that. You have to make it okay, starting with
you, to not do that, and you can do that just as well in your current job as
in a new job. There's a great lede in an old BW story about Best Buy's move to
flexible work hours (since rescinded):

 _One afternoon last year, Chap Achen, who oversees online orders at Best Buy
Co. (BBY), shut down his computer, stood up from his desk, and announced that
he was leaving for the day. It was around 2 p.m., and most of Achen 's staff
were slumped over their keyboards, deep in a post-lunch, LCD-lit trance. "See
you tomorrow," said Achen. "I'm going to a matinee."_

[http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-12-10/smashing-
the-...](http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-12-10/smashing-the-clock)
(they killed the program six years later)

When I work as an in-house designer, I set parameters from day 1, not by
asking permission, but through my behavior. I don't show up before 10am. I
decline any meeting scheduled for the same day. I leave meetings where we're
not getting anything done or there's no agenda. I leave the building for lunch
and I take at least an hour. I am comfortable leaving after my last meeting if
no-one's expecting anything from me, even if that's at 3 in the afternoon. I
show up after lunch or leave early on days when I'm hosting meetups. I book
multi-hour blocks in Outlook, and often also in meeting rooms, so I can focus,
which means if you want my time, book me in Outlook, because I have work to
do.

When I am working, I am _working_ , and I make sure I am able to be
productive, and the rest of the time, I may not even be in the office.

And for over six years, I get my work done, and no-one has ever cared that I
took a three-hour lunch to see Iron Man again.

~~~
BadassFractal
That's very interesting, thank you for clarifying. Those are pretty great
rates, even despite taxes and all. Something to look into for sure.

Even more, I like your attitude, I think that's key.

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karterk
There are lot of companies that hire project/engineering managers where the
work will mostly revolve around dealing with people - clients and your team.
They will still be 8h work days, but far less intense.

Some will suggest software consulting, but there is a lot of things to manage
there unless you're familiar with how the consulting world operates already
and you've done it in the past. You will have to spend a lot of time setting
up schedules, deadlines, prospecting for new customers etc.

