
Whole Foods CEO on plant-based meat: good for the environment, not for health - Xixi
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/21/whole-foods-ceo-john-mackey-plant-based-meat-not-good-for-your-health.html
======
strict9
Compared to a diet of pure fruits and vegetables and grains as the guy says?
True, Beyond/Impossible aren't as healthy as that.

But he's literally comparing a veggie burger to a salad, not what it's
replacing: ground up cow meat that's reassembled in a factory. You won't find
everything in ground beef listed on a label.

Fake burgers are a transition and off-ramp for people looking to eat less
meat. Not people living a purist lifestyle like the Whole Foods CEO.

Beyond Meat/Impossible serve as nice punching bag for people denying the
impact of the beef trade has on the environment and this article is catnip for
them.

~~~
balls187
Actually misses the point entirely.

Comparing a Beef patty to a Beyond Meat patty shows roughly comparable macro
nutritional values. [1],[2]

Beyond Meat "wins" in that it does not have any cholesterol, and no trans
fats. But each has comparable calories, and fat levels. (Though it should be
noted that Beyond Meat is most likely much better for the environment oz for
oz).

The issue that the Whole Foods CEO is taking is that Beyond Meat is marketed
as a healthy alternative to meat. It is only marginally more healthy _at_
best. Replace a cheese burger with Beyond Meat and you still have something
that is unhealthy.

I'd liken this to the same diet fad marketing that vegetarian food was
healthier. This lead to Americans believing they were being healthy while over
consuming pastas and other processed grains simply because they omitted the
meat.

1: [https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/the-beyond-
burger/](https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/the-beyond-burger/)

2: [https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/ground-
bee...](https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/ground-
beef-\(85%25-lean---15%25-fat-patty-cooked-
broiled\)?portionid=46541&portionamount=4.000)

~~~
coder4life
How is "marginally more healthy _at_ best" defined?

Vegetarian food is healthier, and reduces all cause mortality. Here's one of
many studies that say so:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31387433](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31387433)

~~~
rhinoceraptor
That study does not say a vegetarian diet is more healthy, it says that people
who self-report following a vegetarian diet are more healthy.

And you would expect people who eat a vegetarian diet to be more healthy on
average. They're likely more affluent, educated and aren't drinking, smoking
or eating junk food as much as the general population.

------
vzidex
One of my biggest frustrations as a 95% vegetarian (for environmental reasons)
is this misconception that's emerged about plant-based burgers being healthy.
It distracts from the actual benefits of plant-based burgers - environmental
and ethical benefits - and gives meat eaters another reason to discount a
vegetarian diet. It's a hamburger after all, it's not _meant_ to be healthy.

~~~
klmr
> _It 's a hamburger after all, it's not meant to be healthy._

Hamburgers aren’t _inherently_ unhealthy (though I’ll concede that in practice
they often are). A well-made hamburger contains part protein, vegetables and
carbs. It’s a whole meal. A bit too heavy on the carbs maybe, but not
extremely so. It can stand on its own with very few additional flavour
components, and has the potential of being a more wholesome meal than many
others.

The issue, rather, is twofold. First, almost all burgers skimp on the veggies
and generally use low-quality ingredients, instead relying on other flavour
components (i.e. too much sugar and salt, and often added fat in the form of
low-quality cheese and bacon). And secondly, burgers are umami bombs and lead
people to overeat, both in terms of quantity (serving size) and frequency.

~~~
jniedrauer
> A bit too heavy on the carbs maybe

Fat and protein would be the problem. The typical American diet is very high
in fat and protein. _More_ carbs (low GI carbs with fiber) would make it
healthier. To make a well balanced burger, you'd probably need to eliminate
cheese, reduce the size of the patty significantly, use a whole wheat bun, and
add plant fiber. You're basically replacing all of the ingredients.

~~~
nightski
Hmm, I think you have it backwards. The fat and protein are the healthy parts
(including saturated fats). If you take the bun out of the equation you
actually have an incredibly nutritious meal - something my family does all the
time. We've been on the keto diet for 8 years now and our blood & overall
numbers look better than they have ever before in our lives.

~~~
jniedrauer
I don't think encouraging a keto diet as the de facto "healthy diet" is
responsible. Is it _un_ -healthy? Maybe not. There's not enough research to
say that conclusively. It's certainly not the standard though.

I have been training hard for about a year now, trying to get my body into as
ideal shape as I can get it. During that time, I've experimented with a wide
range of diets, including keto. I was on keto for about 4 months. I was
decently well fat adapted by the end of it, but I did not feel healthy. I was
also not making progress in my training. I plateaued for for months.

I switched to a "high carb" plant based diet and I haven't looked back since.
My performance has skyrocketed, my fitness is building at a mind boggling
pace, I sleep better, my skin is clearer, and I just _feel_ healthier.

~~~
nightski
I never said that keto was the de facto healthy diet. I said that fat should
not be demonized. There is a huge difference.

Just because an athlete at peak performance can utilize carbs effectively does
not mean the average person does.

------
flyGuyOnTheSly
>Whole Foods CEO on plant-based meat: good for the environment, not for health

That's literally not what he said, though.

The quote from the article is:

>“As for health, I will not endorse that, and that is about as big of
criticism that I will do in public.”

Not endorsing something as being healthy as the CEO of a health foods chain
and saying something is "not good for health" are two completely different
statements.

There are probably insider trading implications holding him back from making
absolute promotional statements for a company that he most likely holds stock
in.

I agree the Beyond burgers could be "less processed", but IMHO the main health
benefit from eating Beyond Meat burgers is because they're "not meat".

That's the main point people seem to be missing.

They're perhaps not as healthy as eating raw nuts and berries for dinner,
sure.

But if it's a choice between traditional beef patties and a beyond meat burger
of the same size and weight, the beyond meat burger is "healthier" hands down.

------
la_barba
Actual headline:

Whole Foods CEO: Highly-processed food not good for health.

~~~
jefflombardjr
Ideal headline:

Highly-processed organic matter is not food.

~~~
rc_kas
Sadly, it is food. I hate processed foods as much as anyone, but it would be
irresponsible to print this headline.

------
chrisBob
What is it exactly about "processed foods" that make it bad for you. Is it
just that they tend to be the ones with high sugar and fat content, or is
there something about the processing of processed foods that is unhealthy?

~~~
javagram
Ultraprocessed foods produce taste and nutrition combinations that we didn’t
evolve to eat healthily.

It’s incredibly easy and tempting to overeat when consuming ultraprocessed
foods compared to consuming more traditional foods.

[https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-
find...](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-
heavily-processed-foods-cause-overeating-weight-gain)

------
subculture
WHO has details [1] about the carcinogenic impacts of animal meat consumption.
There's nothing of that sort for any plant-based burgers. The arguments in
these types of articles seem to ignore what I think are more serious health
risks from animal proteins.

And animals don't subsist on air. In terms of 'processed', the types of
nutrients fed to factory-farmed animals are terrible, including massive
amounts of antibiotics. Cows are regularly fed the cheapest carbs available,
including Skittles [2]

[1] [https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-
meat/en/](https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/)

[2] [https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/19/health/spilled-skittles-
road-...](https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/19/health/spilled-skittles-road-
trnd/index.html)

------
tmountain
FWIW, John Mackey has a pretty warped view on the environment, so I have a
hard time lending him credibility regarding his opinions on the topic.

"We’ve been in a gradual warming trend since the ending of the “Little Ice
Age” in about 1870, and climate change is perfectly natural and not
necessarily bad. In general, most of humanity tends to flourish more when
global temperatures are in a warming trend and I believe we will be able to
successfully adapt to gradually rising temperatures."

[https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/whole-
foods-...](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/whole-foods-market-
john-mackey-interview-conscious-capitalism/)

~~~
javagram
Seems like a perfectly reasonable opinion to have? Humans have adapted to
climate change before and now we have better technology than ever before to
help us deal with it whether that’s by transportation, new construction,
irrigation, and so on.

~~~
tmountain
When I hear the phrase, "climate change is perfectly natural and not
necessarily bad", it comes across a denial that human beings are the cause of
climate change. Rhetoric that dilutes the message that we're facing the
biggest existential threat in the history of humankind is universally harmful.

------
mnm1
Having been a vegetarian for fifteen years, I simply don't see how it's
possible to eat vegetarian healthily without cooking for yourself from
scratch. Of course these burgers are not healthy especially compared to meat
burgers whose worst ingredient is the bun (which could be replaced by healthy
beard instead of the sugar cake it is at most places). Since I started eating
meat again, I dropped fifty pounds without even trying (exercise helped a
bit). I agree, eating processed foods is terrible and as a vegetarian that
doesn't cook there are few alternatives. It's easy to eat garbage and get fat
as a vegetarian.

------
ropiwqefjnpoa
It's not meat that's bad for the environment, it's the large scale factory
farming methods. There are plenty of veggie farms that damage the environment
too.

~~~
the_gastropod
Eating from a lower trophic level is generally more efficient than eating from
a higher one.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I thought it was the other way, that the further up the food chain the more
concentrated nutrients were and the higher the energy density.

Eating a cube of lamb is more efficient than eating grass, surely?

~~~
belltaco
More efficient if you're starving and need some calories immediately without
having to gather grass.

Not efficient in terms of environmental resources invested.

How much grass being eaten by the lamb resulted in a pound of lamb? How much
water did the lamb consumer per pound of weight?

From the article:

>a plant-based burger generates 90% less greenhouse gas emissions, requires
45% less energy, has 99% less impact on water scarcity, and 93% less impact on
land use than a ¼ pound of traditional U.S. beef.

------
nefitty
I became vegetarian because of the ethical aspects. I really missed Carl's Jr.
burgers for a long time until they introduced a burger with a Beyond patty.

I totally empathize with meat eaters who say, "I could never go vegetarian."
That's how I feel about the Whole Food CEO's diet. Fifteen fruits and
vegetables every day? Unfathomable!

~~~
sprafa
Lol, even in his worst case he’s saying you get one out of two predicted
advantages from it. That doesn’t sound too bad, particularly if you eat veggie
meat in moderation.

------
vemv
I might be wrong, but last time I visited the US (coming from Europe) I
couldn't find in Whole Foods _fresh _ veggie patties.

Those are kept in the fridge, not in the freezer. They are somewhat processed,
but surely not as heavily as BM/Impossble.

Seems a nice middle ground. Not as intense as meat / meat imitations, but I'm
quite sure they are healthy (given their relative simplicity) and provide
sufficient protein.

Have consumed them non-stop over 6 years, and I've kept myself in shape and
energetic.

Here are some examples [https://www.vegetalia.com/categoria-
producto/vegeburgers/](https://www.vegetalia.com/categoria-
producto/vegeburgers/)

------
tluyben2
This again; is there seriously anyone who ate these things and thinks they are
healthy? Or anyone who eats burgers and thinks they are healthy? As vegetarian
I like them once a month and it would be great if they were extremely good for
us; I think we will get there, but for now; if you bake one, smell one, feel
one; it definitely does justice to the original; it feels fatty and unhealthy.
Which is great as it is better for the world, but healthy, nah.

~~~
nightski
Yes, we eat burgers all the time sans the bun and it's an incredibly
nutritious meal with a perfect mix of macro-nutrients. Great protein, good
source of fat, and tons of nutrients. Hard to beat honestly.

~~~
shlant
I wonder how many non-keto people would be making this claim...

> "a perfect mix of macro-nutrients"

What is this "perfect mix"? who is determining this? Macronutrients say very
little about how good a food it for you.

> "Great protein, good source of fat, and tons of nutrients. Hard to beat
> honestly."

Hamburgers contain trans fat[1], cholesterol[2], Neu5Gc[3], heme iron[4] and
other cancer causing compounds from cooking/charring[5]. But yea, it's the bun
you need to worry about...

1\. [https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/plant-based-
fats...](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/plant-based-fats-better-
for-the-heart-than-animal-fats)

2\. [https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/heart-disease-
lowe...](https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/heart-disease-lower-
cholesterol-risk#1)

3\. [https://www.sciencealert.com/evolutionary-story-of-red-
meat-...](https://www.sciencealert.com/evolutionary-story-of-red-meat-cancer-
cmah-gene)

4\.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3261306/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3261306/)

5\. [https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-
prevention/risk/d...](https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-
prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet)

~~~
rhinoceraptor
> Hamburgers contain trans fat

This is pretty misleading. Animal fat has a very small amount of trans fat.
The main source of trans fat is hydrogenated vegetable oil, which was invented
to be a cheap, "healthy" alternative to lard and tallow.

~~~
shlant
> Hamburgers contain trans fat

> This is pretty misleading. Animal fat has a very small amount of trans fat

I'm sorry, but what was misleading? I didn't say "most trans fat in hamburgers
is from animal fat". Pointing out that a main source is probably hydrogenated
vegetable oil does not negate the animal fat source or the amount of trans fat
overall.

------
simplecomplex
Uhh nowhere in the article does the CEO say that.

He says:

> “I don’t think eating highly processed foods is healthy. I think people
> thrive on eating whole foods,” Mackey says. “As for health, I will not
> endorse that, and that is about as big of criticism that I will do in
> public.”

------
tracer4201
I’ll continue buying lean ground beef and steaks from the local butcher. I
tried the impossible burger. It wasn’t for me.

------
donclark
Is Impossible Meat GMO? Any details/studies on if GMOs are healthy/unhealthy
for humans/mammals?

------
rgrieselhuber
Seed oils and pesticides, how could that possibly be bad for your health?

~~~
imglorp
That's kind of a false dichotomy, because the animals eat that too, which
means you eat it, plus you eat the steroids and antibiotics they're given.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
The animals actually digest it. So no, you don't eat it. You eat meat, which
is obviously a different thing from seed oils.

~~~
imglorp
Not true, for all compounds at least. Meat does indeed contain pesticides,
hormones, and antibiotics. We might not test for it, is a different problem.

[https://medium.com/center-for-biological-diversity/does-
meat...](https://medium.com/center-for-biological-diversity/does-meat-contain-
pesticides-c587f6b252e7)

~~~
avmich
The argument was, I believe, against this -

> the animals eat that too, which means you eat it

It's not true in general, as some things animals eat get digested into other
things and don't exist in the animals anymore. Their components do exists, but
we don't consider atoms of meat the meat itself.

