
Apple’s Jony Ive Pushing iOS Interface Team For ‘Flat’ Design - Katelyn
http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/apple-jony-ive-ios-design-interface/
======
larrydavid
The relevant paragraph from the original WSJ article:

"Some suggested that in Apple’s next mobile operating system, Ive is pushing a
more “flat design” that is starker and simpler, according to developers who
have spoken to Apple employees but didn’t have further details. Overall, they
expect any changes to be pretty conservative."

I wouldn't exactly say that switching to a completely flat design as implied
in the headline is a 'conservative' change.

It's quite obvious that they are unlikely to go down the overly skeuomorphic
route as seen in the Podcast app, so this is a fairly 'safe' rumor to spread.
But of course, it incites the usual skeuomorphic vs flat arguments with the
added bonus of accusations of 'copying' the Metro style.

There are many misconceptions in regards to categorizing flat vs skeuomorphic
design, here is a good article that explains the differences pretty well.

<http://sachagreif.com/flat-pixels/>

~~~
xsmasher
>they are unlikely to go down the overly skeuomorphic route as seen in the
Podcast app.

The worm has already turned - the reel-to-reel tape deck is gone from the
podcast app, replaced with a simpler cover art + buttons view.

~~~
Lewton
swipe up

~~~
twoodfin
No, in the latest update it's really gone. I sort of miss it.

~~~
Lewton
Yeah, I'm an idiot. I didn't get the update till after I wrote that comment.
(and then noprocrast kicked in so i couldn't edit)

and I too sort of miss it, now the app looks lifeless

~~~
smith7018
That's the real benefit of Apple's gloss; it makes apps feel welcoming and
friendly. Apps with only function and utility in mind end up feeling cold.

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VeejayRampay
Why do I have the impression that if they go flat, they'll be hailed as
geniuses and Microsoft will be forgotten forever? (This comment guaranteed
100% conspirationist and crazy)

~~~
acchow
Why do you think Microsoft invented flat UI design?

I for one will miss the current iOS design. I'm 1 year into Android and I'm
still way faster on iOS. There is a clear distinction between what is
interaction vs. what is not and my eye instantly maps out the interactive
elements on the screen.

~~~
da_n
Each to their own, I am the complete opposite. I came from an iPhone and
switched to Android. I am much faster on Android, task switching is worlds
apart, animations are faster and smoother, the apps I use follow Holo design
language (this is by choice) meaning the UI is consistent and beautiful. I'm
not saying it's perfect, there are some things I miss from iOS like unread
badges (easy to get back with Nova Launcher however) and I did like Airplay,
Android certainly has plenty of room to refine and improve, but it would take
some massive and fundamental changes for me to consider switching back to iOS.

~~~
coldtea
> _animations are faster and smoother_

This is incorrect, and cannot be so for technical reasons. Even the Android OS
team agrees on that.

Perhaps you had the "new toy" effect?

~~~
fpgeek
Citation please? Cannot seems like an unreasonably strong claim.

Given the way older iOS devices are often sluggish on newer OS releases, it
seems entirely possible that the animations on the switched-from device were
slower and less smooth than the animations on the switched-to device.

~~~
coldtea
Citation? Here, both sides actually:

[http://www.inspiredgeek.com/2011/12/07/why-android-
graphics-...](http://www.inspiredgeek.com/2011/12/07/why-android-graphics-are-
laggy-while-ios-is-smooth-facts-practical-reality/)

[https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJ...](https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS)

[https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x...](https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s)

[http://appadvice.com/appnn/2011/12/android-lag-attributed-
to...](http://appadvice.com/appnn/2011/12/android-lag-attributed-to-core-
system-framework-here-to-stay)

~~~
scott_karana
The latest of those citations is December 2011. They may not reflect the
current state of the Android OS.

Android 4.1 and 4.2, codenamed "Jelly Bean", have been released since that
time, with a "Project Butter" specifically aiming at GUI smoothness.

I haven't had a chance to use anything newer than 4.0, myself, so I'm merely
pointing this out. It could be the same for all I know.

~~~
sbuk
Project butter did nothing for the Nexus S, which in my experience has been
mady worse with Jelly Bean.

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Geee
Sometimes skeuomorphism is useful, when used right. For example, Microsoft's
Fresh Paint app for Windows 8. Extreme skeuomorphism which actually combines
well within the flat W8 interface, screenshot:
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Freshpain...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Freshpaint.png)

~~~
oulipian
You have got to be kidding. That looks terrible and wastes half the space on
the screen. It's not even very good skeuomorphism, the drop shadows aren't in
a consistent direction, and the layering of the brushes and canvas doesn't
make sense.

~~~
jimbobimbo
It is very wrong to judge Freshpaint by the static screenshot.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iFAt78E7KF0#t=93s)

Note how the wet paint mixes up on canvas.

More on mixing colors:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=utbVYi8UurA#t=319s)

This app is really the best skeuomorphism out there.

~~~
warfangle
I remember mixing 'wet paint' on the canvas with Painter 7 around oh... ten
years ago. Not particularly innovative.

The rest of the UI is an abject travesty.

------
vacri
I've always thought that iOS elements looked like Playmobile gear, and clashed
horribly with Ive's sleek hardware design. It will be interesting to see the
changes Ive will make, and how much better they'll mesh with his hardware.

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meerita
I never pay attention to those rumors. And for sure they will never copy MS or
Google. They will craft something their own.

~~~
skc
You mean like Notification Centre?

~~~
meerita
That's not a copy, that maybe you can call it… inspiration. By no means is
identical in shape, color and functionality. But we're here discussing
something much more higher than a single feature, we're talking about the
entire GUI foundation.

~~~
warfangle
You're right. iOS notification center is uglier, less useful, and more
annoying.

------
ishansharma
And please get rid of that ridiculous blue! Anyone using Messages, Mail and
Contacts on iPhone has this eye soar sticking right in front. How in the world
can someone pick such a strange color and then add that stranger blue bar(I
know its automatic) at top.

I would be happy to see flat design, but in increments only. And maybe it is
time for Apple to leave "best for beginners" ideology and care a bit about
advanced users. Give us a little freedom, let me change my default apps, let
Siri do more things and small things like that.

~~~
lostlogin
You got me thinking - completely off topic. I think you mean eyesore. Eye soar
is probably what happens if something is big and good.

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Zigurd
The focus on flat vs skeuomorphic is partly due to designs being mainly static
drawings. Most UIs have additional dimensions. One dimension that goes
underused in Android is the ability to share UI among apps through the use of
intent filters. That hasn't advanced much since Android was announced. Both
Google and 3rd party developers under-utilize this powerful capability. Google
makes a vast suite of apps now, and how often do they "borrow" an activity
from each other?

Then there s the amount of direct manipulation in apps. Viewpagers are nice,
but there isn't a lot of drag-drop, especially on tablets where it provides
feedback and trains muscle memory. Audio ques, haptic feedback, animation,
etc. are all dimensions in which apps can expand interactivity where the
visual interface, on handsets, is tiny.

Skeuomorphism that is just pictures of things is obviously dissatisfying, but
so is a flat UI that doesn't go beyond simple touch.

------
jscheel
I'm not so sure I am all that excited about Ive getting into the UI design
that much. Flat, reductionist design sensibilities are good, but not when they
go unchecked. Is there anyone at Apple with the weight to say to Ive, "that
looks sexy, but no-one gets it"?

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gdubs
I'm gonna wager that "flat" will mean something akin to the google iOS maps
app -- very subtle affordances, gradients, etc, without being overkill.

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DigitalSea
The sad thing about this if it's true is that people will most likely claim
Apple are some revolutionary company that invented flat design when Microsoft
brought it to the commercial mainstream first before anyone else did. Flat
design is in my opinion, Swedish design. The swedes have been designing with a
flat perspective long before Microsoft or anyone else made it a trend.

~~~
sbuk
Even sadder is that you feel the need to take ownership on behalf of someone
else. Ultimately, it simply doesn't matter.

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lloyddobbler
Best watch out. I bet LayerVault will be pissed.

~~~
Y0L0
They are already typing out their DMCA request to Apple as we speak.

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isleyaardvark
Non-skeuomorphic design is not the same as flat design. The example the WSJ
gives to support their idea is the redesign of the lockscreen music controls
in IOS 6.1. Not only does the volume slider have a 3D look to it through the
use of drop-shadows, but when you tilt the phone the reflection on the button
changes.

------
mikecane
Show of hands: How many here recall Microsoft's "Palm-size PC"? It began with
a "3D" interface. It flopped and MS redid it as "Pocket PC" with a _flat_ UI.
(They also moved Start down to the lower left corner, like the PC Windows.)
The more things change...

------
paul_f
I never considered flat and skeuomorphic to be opposite ends of the same
design continuum. Those aren't the only options. I'd like to think the Apple
design team is going to wow us with something new. Something better.

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3amOpsGuy
Where's the "who cares" comment for me to upvote.

Really, it's apple, they've peaked already. Show me the new cool thing _.

_ Please don't read this as a suggestion apple is dead, it's anything but
dead, in the same way Microsoft is.

~~~
coldtea
> _Really, it's apple, they've peaked already. Show me the new cool thing._

That is just conventional wisdom. Who said they have "peaked already"?

Three objections:

1) People would have said the same thing pre iPhone ("oh, they have peaked
with the iPod"), and pre-iPad. And they indeed said it.

2) This iPad thing isn't even 2 years old. Yes, you read that correctly. It
was introduced LESS than 2 years ago (actually closing to 2 years any day now,
it was on late march 2010). Since then they have also established hi-dpi
displays for phones, tablets and laptops, and of course Air-style
ultraportables.

3) All the "new cool things" I've seen from third party companies all these
years have been ho-hum, me-too stuff (Surface, etc) or vaporware (Google
Glasses). It's like, besides Apple, nobody introduces anything that is both
successful AND interesting to the mass markets anymore.

Google, for example, had it's moments with Search and Gmail. Since then, what
exactly have they put out that's interesting AND has caught on with people?
Android: successful but not interesting. Glasses: interesting but not
successful (or even "a product"). Etc.

~~~
currysausage
> It was introduced LESS than 2 years ago (actually closing to 2 years any day
> now, it was on late march 2010).

? ;)

~~~
coldtea
Ooops, that should be "LESS than 3 years ago, closing to 3 any day now". It
was introduced on April 2010.

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anonfunction
So much for the "consistent UI" apple fans are always touting as a win over
android. Now it seems we will have some apps glossy, some flat, some skeuo,
etc...

This isn't new. OSX has many different apps that still reflect trends and
practices of the era in which they were made.

~~~
ebbv
Consistent UI on iOS isn't about all apps looking identical, they don't and
never have.

It's about functionality being consistent, and for the most part it is.
Certainly more so than Android. Whether that's something you care about or not
is up to you.

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revelation
Now thats skating to where the puck will be.

~~~
warfangle
....was a year ago when Jelly Bean was released.

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atesti
Why not use tiles with monochrome icons?

~~~
r00fus
Tiles look great if the content is great, but just like with file previews (on
Win7 or OSX), sometimes that's info that I don't need.

For example, using a desktop analogy, I'd rather not see the layout of my
first page of code. I would like to know the filetype (icon is great for this
often), and some other metadata so I can compare it with similar files.

