
After Journalist’s Alleged Murder, Tech Execs Distance Themselves from Saudis - djrobstep
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ryanmac/silicon-valley-leaders-disassociate-saudi-arabia-board-neom
======
40acres
It was sad to watch so many "intellectual elites" fawn over MBS' "reforms".
Wow women can drive and go to football games. Wow folks can watch Black
Panther at the movies. All the while the Saudi government is bombing the hell
of out kids in Yemen with bombs that have the US flag painted on em. Hopefully
this will be the beginning of a thorough re-evaluation of our relationship
with KSA but I highly doubt it.

~~~
firasd
I was also suspicious of MBS' 'anti-corruption' drive last year. There is no
doubt that there's corruption among the rich and powerful but a sudden purge
seemed more like a power consolidation move
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge)

~~~
onetimemanytime
That's smart for him to do. If you want absolute power you need to scare the
crap out of the competitors(1). Remember, the way he got power is new, and
could be there for 50 years. Lots of super rich, but unhappy cousins and
uncles. No doubt the Marriot family meeting will happen again and again.

(1)...of course after you've made sure no coup d'etat happens in response.

He's consolidating power but if recordings come out on how the journo was
murdered, this guy will no longer meet Bill Gates or Bezos in his next US
trip. He'll be treated like mad African dictators were.

------
walrus01
Saudi Arabia also indefinitely detains womens' rights activists:

[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/saudi-
arabia...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/saudi-arabia-death-
penalty-ubc-graduate-1.4797113)

[https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=lou...](https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=loujain+al-
hathloul&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

They pay lip service to modernization and liberalization (like the legal
change allowing women to drive), but in actuality it's one step forward, two
steps back.

There is extensive documentation on the fact the Saudi Arabia and other states
in the region fund fundamentalist, Hanafi / Wahabbist madrassas in Pakistan.
Where do all the Pakistani jihadis fighting in Afghanistan come from? It's
been known by intelligence agencies for _years_.

[https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=sau...](https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=saudi+arabia+funding+madrassas+pakistan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

~~~
nahalz
There is a certain, big attack on US soil that is also known to be the work of
certain people

~~~
aaronbrethorst
_MbS: First of all, this Wahhabism—please define it for us. We’re not familiar
with it. We don’t know about it.

Goldberg: What do you mean you don’t know about it?

MbS: What is Wahhabism?

Goldberg: You’re the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. You know what Wahhabism is.

MbS: No one can define this Wahhabism.

Goldberg: It’s a movement founded by Ibn abd al-Wahhab in the 1700s, very
fundamentalist in nature, an austere Salafist-style interpretation—

MbS: No one can define Wahhabism. There is no Wahhabism._

[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/mo...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/mohammed-
bin-salman-iran-israel/557036/)

~~~
walrus01
I bet his intentional ignorance would have been just as forceful if the
interviewer had asked him if he knew who Sayyid Qutb was, and the history of
his association with certain wealthy saudis.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb)

------
senderista
So the Saudis can be responsible for the worst cholera epidemic in history and
the direct killing of thousands of civilians in Yemen, but killing one
journalist is suddenly a bridge too far?

~~~
rgbrenner
That's the way the world is. People only seem to sit up and take notice of
terrible things on occasion. The answer isn't to be critical of them taking
notice now, but to use it to make them aware of the other terrible things the
same group is also doing.

~~~
jiveturkey
they were aware. these are smart people. they don’t live under a rock.

------
hendzen
$45 billion (soon to be 90) in Saudi money sloshing around in SV via SoftBank.
Everyone is complicit.

~~~
i_am_nomad
Seize it and distribute to the 9/11 survivors, first responders, and troops
who served subsequently in Afghanistan.

~~~
bilbo0s
Do that and foreign investment in the US would collapse.

Very tangible difference between an asset _FREEZE_ , and an asset _SEIZURE_.
And it's a difference wealth prez guys take deadly seriously.

~~~
fjsolwmv
Perhaps it's good that blood money isn't used to invest in the US.

------
minimaxir
> Just got word that Y Combinator's Sam Altman is suspending his involvement
> with the board of Neom. His statement: "This is well out of my expertise, so
> I don't plan to comment on the case until the investigation is finished."

[https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1050541832126455809](https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1050541832126455809)

~~~
mercer
On the one hand I really try to be mindful of the concerns someone like Altman
faces that I don't, but then on the other hand I don't understand how anyone
with any conscience, integrity and basic knowledge of history/politics would
be able to have anything to do with the Saudi government.

Furthermore, if something is 'out of your expertise', why get into this
situation in the first place? "ich habe es nicht gewusst" should at least not
be valid approach/defense anymore.

------
dawhizkid
It is deeply uncomfortable working in the tech industry knowing how much Saudi
money has been sunk into VC funds and VC-back tech cos (some of which I've
worked for).

~~~
walrus01
If that makes you uncomfortable, research how much Saudi money was already
invested into US real estate and major financial companies when 9/11 happened.
The deal since the post WW2 era has basically been:

a) US and UK provide military equipment and military power to guarantee the
security of the house of Saud. (Example: US reaction to the Iraqi invasion of
Kuwait, operation desert shield/desert storm).

b) Saudi government and ARAMCO extract a shitload of oil and sell it, while
using technical services of US and UK oil companies

c) Saudi government re-invests a certain huge amount of the proceeds from
their post-1940s oil wealth into the US and UK economies.

~~~
dawhizkid
Sure, it's just much more tangible when you actively _choose_ to work for a
VC-backed tech co that has accepted Saudi money, especially coming off the
news that Saudis are funding a large percentage of Softbank's newest fund.

------
forapurpose
> some of Neom’s advisory board members, including ... [Sam] Altman, who sat
> down with the prince in April, declined to comment on their involvement

I hope he comments relatively soon (I'm not criticizing him for not commenting
in time for this article). His leadership has a large influence on many,
including in this forum. Tacit opposition and tacit support are the same
thing.

~~~
pinewurst
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna919331](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna919331)

Sam Altman, the president of Y Combinator, a startup incubator that has
nurtured Airbnb and other well-known companies, suspended his involvement
advising Saudi Arabia on a mega-city project there known as NEOM.

------
phs318u
I cannot help but think that before this century ends (possibly even as early
as 2050?), the KSA will have been reduced to that from which they came (before
oil) i.e. not much. They will wield virtually no geopolitical influence.
Within another hundred years, they will be a historical footnote.

~~~
propman
They have significant geopolitical power. The entire Sunni realm is
essentially under their rule. They blockaded Qatar and every Sunni nation
followed suit. They don’t have nukes but technically can call on Pakistan for
their nukes anytime they want. The avg Saudi lives like an upper class
westerner and by upper class I don’t mean upper middle class like the majority
of us tech guys. The poor in KSA are all foreign workers, the Saudis barely
work at all and are rich with servants and cushy govt jobs.

They have the most influence in OPEC and they are now diversifying. KSA is
invested all over SV. Uber, Tesla, Snapchat, biotech firms, SoftBank. Probably
only 2nd to Russian oligarchs in terms of SV money. A bunch of princes are
multibillionaires exclusively from American and British assets.

~~~
phs318u
True, but the excess of their riches is matched only by the profligacy of
their spending and protected by the USA. Once the oil is gone or irrelevant
they lose the protection of America, and become merely a bunch of rich
oligarchs. Some will manage it well, most wont.

EDIT: Forgot to add that their geopolitical power doesn’t come from their
money but from their control of a global resource. If the unfortunate deaths
of various Russian expat oligarchs has proven anything, it’s that no amount of
money can buy you protection from a tier-1 state that wants you dead.

------
exabrial
We've needed to for awhile, for a lot of reasons; from 911 passports to
weapons proliferation.

------
jlj
Saudi PIF has a large stake in SoftBank. SoftBank has large stakes in a wide
range of unicorns in the US and globally.

[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/softba...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/softbank-
group-launches-investment-fund-1476398189)

[http://www.arabnews.com/node/1324941/business-
economy](http://www.arabnews.com/node/1324941/business-economy)

------
lenkite
Well, we can rest safe and assured that our human rights are assiduously
guarded by Saudi Arabia as the chair of the UN human rights commission. You
have the _right_ to be beheaded - chop! chop!

------
pimmen
Saudi Arabia introduce some progressive reforms like women being able to vote,
companies feel like the coast is clear for business, Saudi Arabia does
something terrible, companies shy away.

Reforming a country takes a long time, especially an absolute monarchy where
the government owns the means of producing by far the most wealth in the
country. So, my question is; if Western businesses keep doing this, is Saudi
Arabia going to take two steps forward and one step back, inching their way
towards progress, or just one step forward one step back staying in place?

------
yasserd99
the problem is most of of US citizens judge Saudi Arabia without knowing what
is really going on, adopting an opinion based on what they see on the news -
which is in English -

I laugh when I see some of the comments, especially from seemingly
intellectual people.

~~~
jnaina
As someone with relatives who live and work in the KSA as expats, the
perception that Americans and the world has about KSA is pretty much on point.
It’s a country ruled by a brutal kleptocractic family, which uses a
particularly ultra conservative strain of Islam (Wahabisim) to keep themselves
and their elite cronies in power.

