
Strict new curbs on life in UK announced by PM - ivanmaeder
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52012432
======
user5994461
All non-essential shops are closed and it's not allowed to go out anymore, at
the risk of getting fines from the police.

Worst thing is. I have to move flat in two weeks. Don't know if will be able
to move? or even get the keys? or get the inventory done?

Out of all the government measures, in any country. There is nothing about
extending letting contracts or freezing rents.

~~~
lvturner
No, the worst thing is that this was avoidable and the rest of the world
pleaded with the a UKGOV to abandon its criminally insane herd immunity plan,
take its head out of the sand and take evasive action.

This is nothing less than a complete failure of leadership.

Apologies for being strong worded and political, but it really boils my blood.

~~~
arcticbull
The herd immunity plan was probably the most rational plan any government put
forward. Instead, due to the irrational panic of the population, we've got
this. I'm fairly confident time will show leadership was right, and the people
wrong, as they tend to be in times of overwhelming uncertainty.

The average age of COVID-19 fatalities in Italy is _80_ , median 82.5, and 99%
of them had co-morbid conditions (an average of 3 comorbid conditions). In
China the average age was mid-high 70s. Almost nobody outside a risk category
has died so far. [1] These folks were on death's doorstep as is. If I'm not
mistaken the plan was, rationally, to lock _them_ inside while the problem
sorted itself out.

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-
tho...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-
died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says)

~~~
maverick2007
Honest question (I initially reacted strongly against their herd immunity idea
but I've started to rethink my position):

Isn't there evidence that a high enough proportion of those low risk people
would require hospitalization too and that would overwhelm the capacity?
That's my only remaining concern about the idea.

~~~
patrec
Great, then you must be the perfect person to alleviate the following
additional concerns I still have:

\- Isn't there a significant risk that immunity after infection might wear of
too soon after infection for herd immunity to be practicable, at least without
driving up the deaths yet further?

\- Isn't there a significant risk that we end up with a lot of people who
survive but have long term health problems?

\- Wouldn't the fact that no one else seems to think herd immunity is such a
hot idea any more mean the UK faces a high risk to be completely quarantined
off by other countries? Brexit probably doesn't reduce the chances of that
happening either. Could that not have a few bad economic and other effects?

\- Isn't there a significant risk that isolating vulnerable people or the
infected in ICUs may not work as well as intended? What if a lot of nurses and
doctors get infected and pass it on to other people who have no chronic
problems but are temporarily weakened? What if it turns out that seeing a lot
of people die miserably without being able to do much about it for weeks on
end takes its toll on the current crop of health care professionals or the
UK's ability to recruit future generations?

\- Wouldn't that most likely mean giving up on eradicating Covid-19
completely? Is it really desirable to permanently reduce life expectancy by
keeping it around forever?

\- What if the virus changes in an unanticipated direction? Would the herd
immunisation strategy not put exactly the type of evolutionary pressure on the
virus that you don't want? Namely to become more virulent? Is that not a bit
risky?

~~~
arcticbull
> Is it really desirable to permanently reduce life expectancy by keeping it
> around forever?

That ship has long since sailed.

~~~
patrec
People keep saying so, but I have yet to see compelling evidence. Can you
provide some?

For what it's worth, I think eradicating something world-wide that has already
spread widely beyond the relatively competent and affluent countries is going
to be tough. But personally, I'd much rather see it eradicated in just
competent and affluent countries than not at all.

~~~
arcticbull
> But personally, I'd much rather see it eradicated in just competent and
> affluent countries than not at all.

With something this infectious all it takes is one visitor from one of the
have-not countries to put the have-country into total lockdown. That's not a
realistic plan moving forward either.

~~~
patrec
Two points:

1\. People don't just start to magically teleport around if you restrict their
travel. I know that defies common wisdom, which is presumably why the UK and
others kept (keep?) importing people from disease Epicentres like Milan or
Teheran en-masse right up the point of total lockdown. But if, for example,
Japan, the UK or Australia decide they don't want Iranians to visit their
shores for a while, at least not without on the spot testing, automatic two
week quarantine or other heavy restrictions: what is the would be Iranian
mass-infector going to do about it? And is greatly restricting travel from
incompetent countries really going to wreck your nation?

2\. Vaccines are cheap. If it's possible to create a vaccine that is
sufficiently safe and covers enough strains of the virus, you can just
vaccinate enough of your population that the disease will, effectively, no
longer be very infectious. Then you can intelligently spend some comparatively
trifling sums to make such vaccination programs available to countries that
genuinely can't afford them.

------
rvz
Good. This was expected and also unprecedented by the prime minister. The
people who tested him on the weekends, by having a non-essential stroll-about
in the park and treating this as a joke now can't do that again for the next 3
weeks or else they will get fined.

Nobody wanted this but since it is for the urgency for the country to protect
others then, such measures are needed to stop the spread somehow.

~~~
benchtobedside
> a non-essential stroll-about in the park

Both the article and the video mention daily exercise as essential.

~~~
rvz
Exactly true. But I didn't mention or say 'exercise' anywhere. But even with
that being allowed, it has to be on your own and not with others, which the
latter had happened over the weekend in the UK with mass gatherings and
ignoring the previous measures. [0]

[0]
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51999864](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51999864)

------
gumby
What about walking pets (dogs and horses mainly I assume)?

California's rules are interesting (well Santa Clara but I believe they are
mostly the same). Some points that caught my attention:

\- explicit exceptions for visiting elderly or other relatives who need help

\- explicit permission to exercise pets including visiting homes where pets
are alone

\- home construction is exempt, with a meaningless request for low income
housing. While SC has a serious housing shortage and low income housing is
crucial, the latter is not going to change in a few weeks while its mention
might piss off (ahem) certain people unnecessarily. Also I notice Palo Alto's
building permit office is shut.

\- you're encouraged to go hiking but not to ride a bike, scooter etc in case
you end up in the hospital. As there are hardly any cars on the road I'm not
sure if this restriction is really worth it.

When I walk the dog in the middle of the day I see _more_ people than usual as
they are stuck at home. Dogs seem pretty happy. Driveways are full of course.

~~~
slenk
I am confused...are you asking and answering your own question or was this
supposed to be a reply for something?

~~~
gumby
UK seems to exclude it, which seems odd for the country that gave us the
rspca. Appears in fact more restrictive on several dimensions.

~~~
mantap
Walking your dog comes under exercise. You're allowed to go out for a walk as
long as you stay 2m away from people who you don't live with.

------
ac2u
These measures have little teeth compared to European mainland measures.

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
Don't talk crap. Italy's been in harder lockdown for longer.

~~~
ac2u
I fail to see how that’s a response to my comment.

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
Neither do I on reflection. I guess I totally misread it somehow. Apologies.

~~~
ac2u
No problem, stay healthy!

------
JulianMorrison
It's frustrating because we would have been fine without this if people
weren't choosing to be selfish jerks. Honestly I feel the people taking
holidays by the seaside and congregating in parks should have been arrested
for reckless endangerment.

------
davepmichael
And, I still don't know if I should turn up to work tomorrow!

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
Are you a florist or an intensive care operative. What do you think.

~~~
DanBC
The UK key worker list is detailed here. It's not particularly clear:
[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-
covid...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-
covid-19-maintaining-educational-provision/guidance-for-schools-colleges-and-
local-authorities-on-maintaining-educational-provision)

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
That's quality, thanks! (even if a little vague)

