

Lisp machines - l0stman
http://collison.ie/blog/2008/04/lisp-machines

======
leoc
KLAXON KLAXON KLAXON

Dodgy Genera binaries are one thing - pirate Genera _source_ could be poison.
Any future project to implement anything resembling a Lisp Machine* might be
vulnerable to accusations that the contributors had taken advantage of it.
Reading or downloading or disseminating or advertising it seems like a Really
Bad Idea to me. Though the article suggests that "the current legal status of
the IP around the Lisp Machines is unclear", it seems that there's at least
one institution with (at the very least) a good chance of vindicating
proprietary claims to a large part of Genera in court - new Symbolics:
<http://www.symbolics.com>

* Quite loosely, perhaps. For example, I don't think that "but my persistent, dynamic runtime doesn't implement Lisp!" is necessarily going to be a sterling defence against claims that it swiped architectural details from Genera.

~~~
pc
Agreed that there are risks here. I'd be interested to hear from anyone with
specific knowledge of the Symbolics situation -- my email address is
patrick#collison#ie. I've tried to contact David Schmidt (the listed contact
at symbolics.com) a few times, but without success.

Note, though, that Symbolics machines shipped with the source code (I own one,
and have been reading and editing bits and pieces for quite a while). Using
this emulated version of Genera is pretty much an orthogonal issue: to the
extent that reading the Symbolics source causes IP issues, you're just as
screwed if you read it legally.

~~~
leoc
(proggit crosspost: <http://reddit.com/info/6hd0k/comments/c03uonk>)

Hm, I think my IANAL reflex didn't trigger strongly enough when I was writing
my original comment. But I still believe it's a Good Idea to play safe until
broader legal fallout is definitively ruled out one way or another. After all,
once the genie escapes the bottle it's not going back in no matter what the
consequences turn out to be.

> to the extent that reading the Symbolics source causes IP issues, you're
> just as screwed if you read it legally.

Very likely, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. Partly because - well, if there
is a plausible impression that Project Foo's shiny new VM is based on their
study of other people's old code that they gleefully pirated all over the
intertubes, then they're practically _begging_ a judge to put together some
interpretation of the law under which to hammer them. Ask Corley what being
technically in the right guarantees you under those circumstances.

~~~
pc
_I still believe it's a Good Idea to play safe until broader legal fallout is
definitively ruled out one way or another_

Ok, then don't use it.

 _Very likely, but I wouldn't bet my life on it._

Indeed. But do these "I wouldn't bet my life on it" concerns warrant "KLAXON
KLAXON" hysteria?

 _then they're practically begging a judge to put together some interpretation
of the law under which to hammer them_

There's enough legal issues to worry about in life without inventing new
scenarios in which you could fall afoul of hypothetical laws.

