
A Calculator for the Billionaires – Elizabeth Warren - gscott
https://elizabethwarren.com/calculator/ultra-millionaire-tax
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davidu
Here's a scenario of punishing the American dream:

Imagine you're a startup founder who has a high-flying startup. You own 20%.
It just got valued at $800,000,000. Now you're worth $160,000,000 ON PAPER.
That's awesome. But it's not the same is being rich.

Imagine your salary is $150,000. With the Warren plan you now owe $2,200,000
PER YEAR in taxes from cash you don't actually have. So you now what, sell
your company? Try to secondary? Congrats you just got taxed real money on
fantasy paper gains that you never realized.

~~~
msteffen
At the point where a startup is being valued at 800M (and therefore raising
rounds of ~100M?) are the founders still making 150k? At this point, wouldn't
your business have hundreds of employees?

Also IIUC startup equity value (for tax purposes) is typically based on the
startup's 409(a) price, which I think is pretty different from investor
valuations, since investors get preferred stock (among other differences)

~~~
maxk42
> At the point where a startup is being valued at 800M (and therefore raising
> rounds of ~100M?) are the founders still making 150k?

Yes.

> At this point, wouldn't your business have hundreds of employees?

Also yes. Why does this imply you'd be making more than $150k?

In most places outside of SV, $150k is enough to qualify as "Affluent".

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bernierocks
I have great idea. Since poor people can't pay very much in taxes, how about
we have required government work programs to make up the difference? IE: you
won't get paid, you will work your tax bill off in the form of labor..during
your free time and on weekends.

Many countries have tried taxing net worth. The result is always the same:
billionaires leave the country and investors think twice about building a
business there...which means less jobs and a worse-off economy for the rest of
us.

The government just isn't good at innovating and will waste that money on
'administrative costs'.

The funny thing is that the rich already pay the majority of federal taxes in
the US. This isn't including all of the people they employ that are also
contributing taxes to the government till.

It never seems to be enough because all of that money is pissed away and
nobody is ever held accountable.

~~~
yummypaint
> This isn't including all of the people they employ that are also
> contributing taxes to the government till.

>Since poor people can't pay very much in taxes, how about we have required
government work programs to make up the difference?

Maybe we should have a living wage. If the threat of wealth taxes is the
catalyst that gets us there then good. The extremely wealthy will always hire
people to hide their assets and minimize their tax burden regardless of
whether the govt implements an appeasement policy. Hoarding capital and
removing it from the economy also harms everyone, taxing that effect seems
entirely reasonable.

~~~
bernierocks
"Maybe we should have a living wage"

We already have a living wage. Amazon is paying at least $15/hour in all their
warehouses and many other companies pay well over minimum wage for jobs that
require little to no education. The amount of truly minimum wage jobs is
miniscule.

"If the threat of wealth taxes is the catalyst that gets us there then good"

A wealth tax won't get us there. The wealthy will move to a country that has
less-restrictive tax laws (and most of these countries would be happy to have
the new income) and the customer and the middle class will end up paying more
out of their pockets.

a "living wage" is always a moving goal post and doesn't really mean anything.
If I'm single and have 3 kids to support, my 'living wage' will be much higher
than a person that is single with no kids.

Why should a company pay for the poor life decisions of all its employees?

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rdlecler1
I wonder how many people would leave the US and give up citizenship.
Alternatively this could spur investment into more risk capital as capital
preservation might not be a sufficient strategy.

~~~
undersuit
Yes, renounce your citizenship. Don't forget to pay your expatriation tax and
get used to the 30% taxation the US applies to many countries that don't have
tax agreements with us.

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baconforce
One of the greatest lies perpetuated in America is that billionaires should
pay less taxes than the average person because one day, you too could be a
billionaire, and you wouldn't want to become less of a billionaire because of
taxes.

~~~
bnjms
One of the greatest lies perpetuated in America is that people's objection to
things like a wealth tax is based on a belief they could one day be
billionaire's. It isn't. See Davidu's comment.

There are better ways to do what the wealth tax candidates want but they
aren't imaginative enough for that task.

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grapeses
This "calculator" is a political stunt. Billionaires have their own financial
advisors. They don't care about this calculator, and they're definitely not
confused.

