

Cisco To Shut Down Flip Video Business; Will Give Pink Slips To 550 Employees - bossjones
http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/12/cisco-to-shut-down-flip-video-business-will-give-pink-slips-to-550-employees/

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krschultz
I really think the GoPro killed them. If I want good quality video, I need
something better than a Flip. If I need a durable, small, device for getting
some OK video, I'll get a goPro. If I need OK video quality and don't care
about durability, I'll use my smart phone.

When I'm out skiing, I see half the teenagers with GoPro's mounted on their
helmets, their ski poles, chest harnesses etc video taping each other hitting
jumps to put it up on youtube. When I'm at a car race, half the guys have
GoPro's mounted on their rollcage. Flip just kind of missed the niche.

~~~
dr_
Mmmm...I think it's more likely all the smartphones out there that now have
decent enough video capabilities for most people.

~~~
jsavimbi
For most people, yes. I think the all-in-one packages of phone, mp3 player and
camera has put a dent in the bottom line of any low-end single-use device. I
bought a Kodak Zi8 back in '09 and to be honest I've only really used it once.
The camera on the iPhone can't compete with it, but for a multi-purpose device
I'd much rather have a GoPro. I guess Flip failed to take notice that a niche
was driving the market.

~~~
bbgm
I have a Zi8 which I haven't used in a long time and didn't use that much when
I had it. Now I take video with my iPhone4 all the time.

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xinsight
Did the HD video capability of mobile phones (e.g. iPhone 4) kill the Flip? If
so, this has happened before; Pure Digital's first product was a cheap point-
and-shoot camera that you'd take in for processing, but it was also beaten by
the rise of (equally poor quality) cellphone cameras.

Interesting take-away from a user experience perspective. A dedicated device
that is famously easy to use, still loses out to more complicated devices that
do everything.

History of Pure Digital and Flip:

[http://techcrunch.com/2009/03/19/flip-video-wrong-wrong-
wron...](http://techcrunch.com/2009/03/19/flip-video-wrong-wrong-wrong-and-
then-so-so-right/)

~~~
roc
> _"A dedicated device that is famously easy to use, still loses out to more
> complicated devices that do everything."_

There's something of a gadget axiom in there. Casual users are, by definition,
not interested in the fiddly bits. Thus they value the results over the
process, the tools or the craft. Thus they are most-willing to abandon a
dedicated device for a good-enough multifunction, if for no other reason than
to cut down on extra gadgets for endeavors they don't have a deep interest in.

I think you might be off on 'complicated' though. Note that Flip didn't have
any real competition until the latest versions of modern pocket-OSes brought
(comparative) simplicity to video. 'Feature-phones' were packing video
capabilities for pretty much all of Flip's rise to prominence.

It's the two-tap "upload to youtube/vimeo/facebook" that did them in.

~~~
xinsight
> It's the two-tap "upload to youtube/vimeo/facebook" that did them in.

Great point. For sharing, connecting to a computer via USB isn't nearly as
nice as tapping a couple of buttons. (But Flip was easier to point and shoot.
No hunting for the photo app, loading it, switching to video, etc.)

re: gadget axiom - I've also heard about the "pocket exception": Devices with
many functions lose out to specialized devices - except when the device can
fit in your pocket. (Sorry, can't find the source.)

------
daniel_reetz
Imagine if they had bothered to put an ethernet jack on it, or wifi in it, or
made it time-lapse capable out of the box. Or made the whole thing USB-stick-
sized. There are so many things you can do with cheap cameras that you can't
do with an expensive camera phone - the problem here is a total lack of
vision.

(and yeah, I'm aware of IP cams, and their wretched ActiveX-only interfaces,
and their price range, and they don't fill the spaces I'm talking about).

~~~
xinsight
I agree, they could have gone in a lot of directions with an inexpensive
camera. I guess the problem was that Cisco wanted the mainstream market - and
they weren't going to go after the various niche markets like: timelapses,
infrared, fast shutter cams (e.g. skateboarding tricks), sport cams (e.g.
mountain biking, longboarding)...

Or maybe Cisco didn't want any competition for their line of rather plain,
low-quality home security IP cameras.

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dools
I'm glad I got my flip before they shut it down! It's been a tremendous asset
in catching all my daughter's big moments so far. The value for me is in how
quickly it boots up and starts recording, the fact that it's on a completely
separate battery to my phone, has a good picture, steady cam and plays nice
with iPhoto. It also came with a nice little tripod that we set up at
christmas/birthday to catch the opening of presents. Whilst one could
certainly solve the problem with a smart phone I've enjoyed having a dedicated
device for all this.

EDIT: accidentally submitted half finished last sentence then went through a
train tunnel hence delay in completion :)

~~~
jseliger
I'm glad I did too—I've had one since 2009, and it's been one of those
delightful and unexpected gadgets. The video quality is still far higher than
my iPhone.

This is particularly distressing because, even though phones might make Flip
cameras irrelevant _in the future_ , they haven't yet. Buying Flip only to
shut it down seems cruel and stupid.

------
brown9-2
I wonder if the executives who spent $590 million on Pure Digital will also
get a pink slip?

~~~
akent
Did that acquisition EVER make any sense?

~~~
maukdaddy
The acquisition made sense if they wanted to diversify into the consumer
space. What did NOT make sense was the astronomical pricetag of $590 million.
How many flips + services would need to be sold to generate $590 mil in
revenue?

~~~
ippisl
So they acquire talent + brand for a large part of $590 million ? seems pretty
expensive.

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RBr
Really? We're surprised by this?

Camera phones with video recording capabilities are almost ubiquitous. More
then that, they're cheaper and solve the primary usage case better then the
portable Flip cameras do. Flip cameras provided better quality portable video
and now that embedded mobile technology has caught up to that quality,
justifying the price to carry around another device is difficult.

~~~
klenwell
Camera phones probably made it inevitable. But Cisco certainly accelerated
matters.

I got a Flip camera phone 3 or 4 years back for Christmas. Great impulse buy.
I think there was only 1 model. Less than $100. Didn't use it that much but
still loved it. Girlfriend, too. Great for trips.

Loved it so much that when it crapped out, we decided to get a new one this
year, even though we both have good smartphones. Now there were 2 or 3 models
of Flip. None less than $150. I just wanted what I had before. Simple, cheap,
works.

I think I got a discounted one on Amazon for a little under $150. Get it in
the mail. Doesn't work out of the box. Neither Linux nor Windows computer
recognizes it. Won't charge. After an hour on the phone with a woman in the
Philippines, we finally got it charging. First time we try to use it, it just
shuts down. It was on the next flight back to Amazon.

There was still a market for the old Flip: me. Cisco screwed the pooch on
this.

~~~
bmj
Agreed. We got one from our ISP when we signed up for fiber. Not sure I would
actually buy one, given that my wife has an iPhone, but the Flip has been very
useful.

------
jrockway
I guess Cisco realized that they couldn't sell licensing entitlements to
consumers. "If you can afford it, it's not Cisco."

------
eddmc
The Flip's strength is it's simplicity. Sorry, but I don't buy the idea
elsewhere on this thread that Camera phones (w/ video recording) or GoPro's
have captured this market. Yes, they both cover some of it, but lets face it
we're the geeks - we're likely to spend money on the latest gadget.

The use case I want to suggest is my parents (in their early 60's). They both
have cell phones, but they are not smartphones (they're as likely to get an
iphone/android device as they are to go base jumping). They got a Flip about 2
years ago and have recorded over 1,000 hours of their grandkids (my kids) on
it so far! It's easy to keep in a pocket or a bag, there's an on/off switch
and a big red button to record, and of course it easily plugs in to their
laptop (mom) / PC (dad). It had made a massive difference to them, and I think
they're more likely to record stuff on the Flip than to take a picture of it
:-)

Sad to see the Flip go.

~~~
tomkarlo
Smartphones don't have to be directly comparable to the specialist device in
order to make them uneconomic. Even if they're only 50% as good, for people
that own one, they're essentially free. So for a lot of folks who might have
gotten a Flip but didn't really have a pressing need for one, they're now
going to just limp along with the non-dedicated device and save $100. Suddenly
your market is 25-50% smaller and you can't sell at as low a price any more...
so you raise your price and make your market even smaller, or get out of that
business.

------
senthilnayagam
I own 2 flips and I love the simplicity, I share it with my kids and extended
family for all occassions.

Cisco is positioning itself as enterprise networking company.

They should not kill the Flip business, selling it is a good option.

~~~
martincmartin
As the article says: "In a world where consumers can now record and stream
video directly from their iPhone, Android or BlackBerry phone, Flip’s video
camera business is no longer novel or useful."

~~~
nitrogen
I would much rather record video with a Flip camera than my Android phone. The
Flip is instantly ready to record when I turn it on, and it boots in at most 3
seconds. There is very little delay between stopping and starting, so I don't
miss what's going on if I pause/restart to create a new file. My Epic takes
several seconds just to load the camera app, several seconds more plus a
stupid "MMS vs. normal" question to switch to video, and has an annoying UI.

~~~
RickHull
I think the real issue is that the phone video experience will continue to
improve, so the market for a dedicated video device is decidedly more about
prosumer features than gee-why-not convenience.

i.e. the Flip still has a niche today, but it's clear that the story doesn't
end well

------
LordBodak
Flip built an interesting product, but it just doesn't offer anything anymore.

I came close to buying one a number of times, but never pulled the trigger
because it would have been another device to carry and I wasn't sure how much
I'd really use it.

Now, both my phone and my iPod Touch offer everything the Flip did, and I'm
already carrying them around with me.

------
advancingdagger
I got the Kodak video cameras:

Playsport - waterproof Playtouch - for non waterproof and editing video

Love them both - I have two smartphones and do take pics and record video too
- but for taking video or pics of my babu, recreation, or just fun - the
dedicated device is actually really useful. Sure, when I'm out and about I
record on my smartphone and send the video up to Facebook, but for anything
business related or just seriously good video quality and long recording
times, I'm back to my Kodaks.

The Kodak's are far better than my Flip by the way, for quality and
reliability. So I'll keep my Kodak cameras for those purposes and it's nice
not having an incoming call interrupt my recording.

As you say - we are tech geeks. Krschultz is wrong, nobody but the small
community of us geeks care about these cameras. It's the smartphone that
killed the pocket video market.

~~~
japherwocky
mostly unrelated: why is your name green?

~~~
jseliger
I believe new user accounts are now green.

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cisco_nolove
So, Cisco guys aren't really the toast of engineering hiring on HN? No,"If you
are an affected,motivated Cisco employee,ping me" posts? Interesting...

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simpleenigma
I use 3 Flip cameras to create a video podcast for my church each week. I'm
not going for great quality, I'm going for good enough with a simple form
factor and and ease of use. This is really disappointing and after what they
did to Linksys I'll reconsider any product that I use or am looking at using
after Cisco buys them ...

------
xbryanx
Flips are a pretty great tool in an informal educational setting where you
wanna just hand some one a dumb simple device with a record button. I
understand that this was never a big enough market to sustain the product, but
the ed. world will mourn the loss of these devices.

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savrajsingh
Wow, flip appeared and disappeared fast. I wonder how the camcorder makers
feel.

~~~
metageek
The product lasted 5 years (though with a name change).

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atacrawl
Even when the Flip was hot (I got one for Christmas a few years ago), the
thing felt like a cheap toy. Once smartphones with decent video capabilities
came out, it REALLY felt like a cheap toy.

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callumjones
Woah, couldn't they at least try to sell it?

~~~
josephb
You would imagine they would try to sell it off.

They may have already and failed.

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cliveholloway
And they were so close. If only they could have worked out the missing
piece...

HINT: SD Card support.

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bennesvig
Are there any alternatives that let you custom design the camera?

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epynonymous
i'm quite surprised about john chambers resolve and speed of execution here.
too bad for the 550.

