
Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions - MilnerRoute
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45637826
======
dcole2929
This is absolutely great and needs to happen in many more places. One of the
worst parts about the draconian mandatory sentencing laws so many places have
is that prison turns otherwise good people into criminals. It's almost like
the entire process was designed to be that way. Not only is prison itself a
harsh environment that treats people like chattel, and often forces people to
make morally suspect decisions to ensure their own survival. But once they're
released they're given a scarlet letter that prevents them from integrating
back into society. They can't find jobs, and sometimes even housing. They're
finances and credit are generally in ruins from abruptly losing everything.
It's no wonder so many people re-offend and generally for worse offenses. The
system takes away everything and prevents them from even attempting to claw
there way back. And to top it off there are these ridiculously long
probationary periods where the smallest offense can land one back in prison.
Oh and lastly they take away you're right to vote so you become literally an
invisible member of society as far as politicians are concerned. But hey drugs
are bad, and anyone who does drugs is bad /s.

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hownottowrite
The actual motion from the City Attorney which outlines the rationale.
[https://news.seattle.gov/wp-
content/uploads/2018/04/HolmesMo...](https://news.seattle.gov/wp-
content/uploads/2018/04/HolmesMotionToVacateMarijuana.pdf)

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Symbiote
For comparison, what happened just after alcohol prohibition ended in the USA?

(I'm not American, so not too familiar with this.)

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bunderbunder
Things bounced back petty quickly. It only took about 80 years for us to start
having access to good beer again.

More seriously - I don't think organized crime went away. It was a big problem
before prohibition, and it continued to be a big problem after. However, it
may have been weakened by the loss of an extremely profitable revenue source.
Alcoholism dropped precipitously during prohibition, and started coming back
again after it ended. Given that the US has a huge problem with drunk driving,
one could probably make a cogent argument that, with the repeal of
prohibition, we replaced a relatively small but sensational amount of
organized crime with a large, but relatively socially acceptable, amount of
disorganized crime. One might presume that other crimes that tend to go hand-
in-hand with alcohol, such as domestic and sexual assault, also got a boost
from the repeal.

I'm not sure how well any of this applies to marijuana. With marijuana, the
worst (non-government-imposed) externalities seem to be related to how gangs
behave when they're financed by the illegal marijuana trade. With alcohol, the
organized crime was a problem, but the worst problems seemed (and seem) to be
a direct result of how people behave when they've been drinking.

One common thread, though, is that opposition to both bans seems to be a
reaction to government overreach as much as anything else. The penalties being
handed down for alcohol possession were every bit as outrageous as the ones we
see for marijuana possession nowadays, and that played a big part in public
perception of the law.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Excuse me but the wet lawn mower clippings mixed with cinnamon and spicy chai
with a shot of 5w40 for texture that is currently in vogue is not "good beer".
I want a beer I can drink, not one I have to endure.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
It's why I just drink cider now. Hard to find quality ones, but when I do they
don't involve getting punched in the face with hops.

~~~
stevehawk
I live in a tiny town with a surprisingly popular brewery with ~8-10 beers on
tap. IPAs. Every. Damn. One. Of. Them. And my local beer shop switched
distributors so now I can't get my preferred beer (Prairie Bomb!).

~~~
bunderbunder
Might as well continue this tangent. I haven't lost nearly enough karma on it
yet. :)

I think that, if you're going to be a very small brewery that has that many
different beers, they basically _have_ to all be IPAs. The high alcohol
content will help make the beer more resistant to going stale, and the
hoppiness will cover all the flaws and consistency issues that you're very
likely to have if your brewmaster is spreading themself that thin. By
contrast, if you're making something like a helles lager, any problems you
have with finicky things like the mash or the primary fermentation will to
have nowhere to hide.

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gpmcadam
What about the people who were convicted 15 years and 1 month ago? Or 16
years? Or 20 years?

Feels pretty arbitrary.

~~~
mysterypie
> Judges in Seattle have decided to quash convictions for marijuana possession
> for anyone prosecuted in the city between 1996 and 2010. Possession of
> marijuana became legal in the state of Washington in 2012.

Another question is why didn't they quash convictions between 1996 and
present, or between 1996 and 2012 when it became legal? Such _obvious_
questions that aren't addressed by the article -- and this is the BBC no less.

~~~
maaark
Why leave out 2011-(mid)2012?

~~~
TomMarius
Supposedly because they had a policy that caused them to throw out all cases
in the meantime, like it is done now in some jurisdictions.

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ams6110
"542 people could have their convictions dismissed by mid-November"

That's not the number I was expecting when I saw the headline. That's 36
people a year, in a city the size of Seattle. I was expecting it to be
thousands if not more.

Maybe shows that not very many people are ever convicted for simple possession
alone. It's usually an additional charge along with dealing, violence, or
both.

~~~
jjulius
The judge threw out convictions that occurred in Seattle between 1996 and
2010. In 2003, Seattle effectively decriminalized marijuana by making
enforcement of cannabis laws the "lowest priority". That covers half of the
window the judge looked at.

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drpgq
I wonder what will happen in Canada once October 17th, the legalization date
comes.

~~~
frockington
I'm hoping more Canadians become stoners and push wages up for people with
clean urine

~~~
mitjak
how exactly would having more stoners up the wages?

~~~
justtopost
Smaller hiring pool leading to higher wages for the sober drones is the
implied hypothesis here if I am reading it right.

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loeg
Here's an earlier source: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/politics/seattle-c...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/politics/seattle-court-agrees-to-vacate-misdemeanor-marijuana-
convictions-prosecuted-before-legalization/)

And the writing has been on the wall from about April:
[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/politics/seattle-a...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/politics/seattle-asks-court-to-dismiss-marijuana-convictions-from-before-
legalization/)

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kazishariar
If this happens retroactively, 2/3 of the jail pop[ulations would be free to
live their lives without pain, despair, the misery of 6x10 21 hours a day
even. Fact.

~~~
craigharley
Do you have a source for that? Not saying you're wrong but would be interested
to read.

I had a quick look but couldn't find one.

~~~
XCabbage
I'm not even sure what he's trying to say, but if he means to imply that 2/3
US prison inmates are inside for drug offences, it's nonsense. The real number
isn't even 15%. See [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/releasing-drug-
offender...](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/releasing-drug-offenders-
wont-end-mass-incarceration/).

~~~
craigharley
_According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in
federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses.
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in
state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious
offense. There were also 744,600 inmates in county and city jails. (The BOP
data is current as of July 16. From BJS, the latest jail statistics are from
midyear 2014, and the latest prison statistics from year-end 2013.) That’s an
incarceration rate of about 725 people per 100,000 population._

Looks like for federal prisons it's as high as 48.6%, but that looks like it's
for all drugs not just cannabis.

It's also probably too big a leap to speculate how many people are
incarcerated for drug related incidents (theft to get money to feed a habit
for example). Crimes which would probably be greatly reduced in a treatment
over prohibition system.

~~~
wccrawford
Your quote says that 16% are in with drugs being their most serious crime.

48% include drugs as a crime, but 2/3 of them have a more serious crime as
well.

So I'd say the parent is right that 16% are in for drugs and would be set free
if drugs were legal. The others in that 48% wouldn't be.

~~~
mbrameld
I wonder how often the more serious crime wouldn't have been charged had the
drugs not let to it? For example, carrying a firearm isn't necessarily
illegal, but carrying a firearm and weed in a place where weed is illegal is
most likely a separate, non-drug charge like "carrying a firearm during the
commission of a crime". Also how many non-drug arrests would have never
happened if the officer hadn't been able to manufacture reasonable suspicion
by simply saying, "I smell weed".

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geggam
Wonder if the asset forfeiture involved in all of those cases have to be
returned ?

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blairanderson
i was surprised that its only 500-ish people.

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mabbo
> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or
> charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and
> education," she said.

The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that
believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives
ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just
"good people" and "bad people".

~~~
Shivetya
No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may
be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who
are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society.

then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some
examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies
to filter people and stock crews each week. Why? Drug convictions can ban them
from some sites their company does work at. It can also jack their company's
vehicle insurance and health insurance cost. Plus, go figure, those with more
than one don't turn out to be good employees. They used to do direct hires,
they even tried VA recommended people. some just hang on long enough to start
collecting benefits again or meet eligibility requirements. they have good
jobs to offer as do thousands of small employers do but they cannot afford the
cost of that risk.

but ignoring their hiring issues, occupational licensing which prevents
competition in many fields can include clauses that block those convicted of a
crime from entering a field and drug convictions doubly so.

~~~
faitswulff
> many with criminal convictions are bad people

What do you do with "bad people?" Are they to be forever a drain on society? I
agree that it's a government issue, but we should be rehabilitating our
criminals instead of (just) labeling and punishing them:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/wh...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-
scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/)

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>What do you do with "bad people?

I think he's usually using it synonymous with "deadbeats you don't want to
hire anyway"

~~~
foxhop
I think our biggest problem is we bundle a huge part of the "criminal"
spectrum together.

The fact that we incarcerate for drug possession seems pretty strange. Petty
crimes have way too high of cost in and out of prison.

I associated with a boy in highschool who shortly after graduation murdered
two unarmed people in their home with a sawed off shotgun. I would consider
him a very bad person.

Both the petty and the extreme carry the same label. Each join the untouchable
class.

I'm not sure how to fix that, but it's an issue worth solving

~~~
photik
I use to work in youth corrections. A gang unit I worked on housed one young
guy who got behind the wheel drunk on his sixteenth birthday and accidentally
killed someone, and another young man who contracted an STI from his
girlfriend and decapitated her. These two young men slept 3ft apart and were
treated equivalently by the system.

You've pinpointed a major flaw that is mostly invisible to the public.

