
Suicide Prevention Hotline Number Should Be 3 Digits, 988, Agency Says - pseudolus
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/15/us/suicide-prevention-hotline-988.html
======
jaclaz
As a side note, in Italy (and in some other countries) the "emergency" numbers
have historically been 112 and 113 for two reasons:

1) you could dial them also on old rotary phones with a lock on the dial disc
(the lock was put on the "three finger hole") but of course now it makes no
sense anymore

2) they were easier to "dial" without dialing but tapping on the "hang"
buttons

Nowadays 112 is the "unique" emergency number across all EU and many nearby
countries:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_nu...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers#Europe)

~~~
alexis_fr
> but just tapping on the “hang” button

That looks like a hack. I understood it at 7 years old, but it is typically
the kind of hack I’m told other adults wouldn’t understand. Do you think it
was much used beyond technical-minded people who always wondered how things
worked?

~~~
klondike_
People who needed to make a lot of phone calls would often do this because it
was faster than waiting for the rotary wheel to return to the start

You sometimes see it in old movies

~~~
logfromblammo
As I recall, there was a movie where someone was in jail, the CO dialed the
phone number for their free phone call, and then when the CO locked the number
pad and left, the "hacker" immediately hung up and redialed a different number
by tapping on the cradle switch.

They might have just tapped 10 times (dial rotary-0) to get an operator and
then requested manual completion of the call. I don't remember, exactly.

I don't even know if you can still also do pulse dialing instead of solely
DTMF dialing now.

~~~
mindcrime
That was from "Hackers"[1][2].

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers_\(film\))

[2]: [https://youtu.be/h_Awe6CI91k?t=41](https://youtu.be/h_Awe6CI91k?t=41)

------
M2Ys4U
The EU has designated six-digit numbers starting with 116 as "harmonised
services of social value"[0] which are reserved for a specific purpose.

For example:

116 000 is for missing children;

116 006 is for victims of crime;

116 111 is a child helpline;

116 117 is for non-emergency medical assistance; and

116 123 is for people in emotional distress.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonised_service_of_social_v...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonised_service_of_social_value)

~~~
louiechristie
Too bad in the USA's FCC 70 page report there are 0 mentions of the number 116
123.

([https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-359095A1.pdf](https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-359095A1.pdf))

116 123 is the new standard for emotional support helplines in the 28 EU
countries and has already been implemented by France, Germany, Ireland and
United Kingdom.

You would've thought 116 123 at least deserves consideration by the USA, even
if they didn't adopt it?

Also, while they are at it, it's a shame the USA don't fully implement 112
alongside 911 as their emergency number, because Americans are starting to
look like the odd ones out - see this world map
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_(emergency_telephone_numbe...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_\(emergency_telephone_number\)#/media/File:Emergency_telephone_numbers_in_the_world.svg)

I heard, these days, people go on holidays & vacations abroad, and emergencies
& illness don't care about national boundaries.

On a positive note, it's nice to hear about Americans caring for sick people.

~~~
schoen
I think GSM has some kind of mapping for emergency numbers internationally, so
it should work if people dial either 112 or 911 on a GSM phone. (Of course,
this wouldn't work on a land line.)

------
LinuxBender
Great idea. B-number routing changes are straight forward. Some questions they
would need to figure out is:

\- Where are we routing this

\- When the target is full, which hotlines do we route to and in what order
(load balancing)

\- Will this use e911 coordinate forwarding? i.e. what privacy controls will
be in place

\- Will this get priority override on cell networks? i.e. bump non 988 calls
when cell site is full, but not bump 911 or first responders. (GSM capability)

There are probably a few other details that would need to be sorted, but it
should be easy from a technical stand-point.

~~~
0xffff2
Please don't use code formatting for things that aren't code. The side
scrolling makes it annoying to read on desktop, and borderline impossible to
read on mobile.

List above with line breaks:

\- Where are we routing this

\- When the target is full, which hotlines do we route to and in what order
(load balancing)

\- Will this use e911 coordinate forwarding? i.e. what privacy controls will
be in place

\- Will this get priority override on cell networks? i.e. bump non 988 calls
when cell site is full, but not bump 911 or first responders. (GSM capability)

~~~
LinuxBender
Updated. I've never owned a smart phone, so I suppose I've never taken that
into consideration.

------
Taylor_OD
I've heard that calling the Suicide Prevention Hotline can cause some pretty
terrible unintended results (like cops showing up at your home and being
placed in a mandatory medical hold) if called. Especially if one is not
actually contemplating suicide but rather needs to talk.

Does anyone have anything that backs this up?

~~~
pizza
Somebody once called the suicide hotline at my dorm and the cops showed up.
This lead to everyone in the dorm knowing she called the hotline, probably not
the outcome she intended at all.

~~~
fiblye
There really should be an offering for people who just need to honestly talk
to someone without consequence or follow up (barring cases involving harm to
others).

I think a big reason so many people deal with depression in silence and end up
committing suicide is because they don't want the attention or being put into
the mental health system. They need someone who'll listen to them be
completely honest about all the problems that they can't be open about with
friends and get it all out without the whole neighborhood knowing or being
fucking detained.

Plenty of people are going through temporary troubles and don't want
"depressed/suicidal/a risk to themselves and others" tacked onto their name
forever. But as it is, a lot of our mental health frameworks are set up that
way and it leads to people choosing a quieter way out.

I know loads of people will defend wellness checks or putting people in a
hospital for a while. For some people going through extreme crises, it is
good. But we need a very clear and obvious option for people who aren't a
danger to others and just need an anonymous chat once in a while and want to
be left alone the minute they hang up the phone. I think men in particular,
especially since a large number have nobody who they can honestly vent about
their problems with, are in need of something like this. They don't want to be
seen as weak, they don't want to be thrown into the system, they just need
someone to talk to.

~~~
nspl_anon
> There really should be an offering for people who just need to honestly talk
> to someone without consequence or follow up.

The vast majority of people who call suicide hotlines do it for this purpose.

~~~
fiblye
I know people who called and got a 1 week trip.

A problem is there's a "risk" in calling. There's no 100% guarantee that you
won't get a knock on your door 30 minutes later.

I know people will say that suicide has a clear and obvious risk, too. The
problem is that people fear the embarrassment of being paid a visit or people
knowing about their troubles more than they do death.

------
mbrd
I recently heard a segment on the radio which discussed suicide, and it ended
with the host giving the common "If you are in crisis, then resources are
available..." statement.

The contact details were a 10-digit phone number which wasn't easy to
remember, or to text a 5-digit number to a different 5-digit number. The
specifics went in one ear and out the other. I was driving at the time, but I
would have struggled to remember them long enough to find a pen if I was at
home!

If instead, it was to call or text 988, then that would have been much more
memorable! I hope this saves lives!

------
btown
For a satirical look at why brief emergency service numbers are essential,
there’s always this gem:
[https://youtu.be/ab8GtuPdrUQ](https://youtu.be/ab8GtuPdrUQ)

In all seriousness, there is possibly no better domain where reducing friction
leads to lives saved. I applaud this decision and hope it comes with
sufficient funding to handle increased call volume.

~~~
Waterluvian
I think this move is a no-brainer. But I'm also curious just how effective
these hotlines are. Feels like something that's quite difficult to measure.

~~~
randrews
Look at the ratio of calls they get vs. suicides? Seems pretty easy to measure
to me.

~~~
DanBC
What does that tell you?

A suicide hotline might be called only by people who have no intent to die. If
we measure how many people die it's not going to be many, but that doesn't
mean the hotline works.

------
wallace_f
There are real stories of cops doing "welfare checks" on people and ending up
killing them. More often, all they know is escalation of force and the person
ends up roughed up and in some facility.

I don't trust authorities so much that I worry people in need of help are
dissuaded from calling them.

~~~
rahkiin
Maybe in the US, but in parts of europe de-escalation is an important part of
their 4+ year education

~~~
arcticbull
I believe the average US police program is under 6 months, so probably not a
lot of time to learn things like how to de-escalate.

------
cphoover
I think more dire is staffing the hotline appropriately. Routinely people have
to wait upwards of an hour to connect with anyone.

~~~
chapium
You make a good point, but I wouldn't frame these two ideas as dependent upon
each other.

~~~
cphoover
truth.

------
primer42
This is a great idea. I'm happy to see the FCC proposing something good for
once.

~~~
ejefz
If you think this is the only good thing the FCC has done, you're probably
getting your news from the front page of Reddit.

~~~
paranoidrobot
I'm not in the US, and I don't follow the FCC's news briefs. What I do tend to
hear (yes, from Reddit, and also other tech news) tends to be the more
controversial things.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with examples?

~~~
Derek_MK
Recent highlights sourced from [https://www.fcc.gov/news-
events/headlines](https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/headlines)

* FCC Improves Access to 911 and Timely Assistance from First Responders - This is more-or-less explicitly requiring that phones in hotels, campuses, office buildings, etc be able to directly dial 911 without having to do any sort of prefix, that could be unknown or confusing in an emergency.

* FCC Bans Malicious Spoofing of Text Messages & Foreign Robocalls - This makes it easier for the FCC to pursue action against scammers who spoof caller ID (previously there were loopholes so that they couldn't take action if it was a text, or if the call originated from outside the US, or if it's a one-way VOIP call.

* FCC Authorizes $121 Million In Rural Broadband Funding In 16 States - Pretty self-explanatory

* FCC Reaches $550,000 Cramming Settlement with CenturyLink - This was in response to CenturyLink placing "unauthorized third-party charges and fees onto consumers' bills"

* Chairman Pai Recommends Approving T-Mobile/Sprint Merger - This one's more controversial, but you can make a strong case that allowing T-Mobile/Sprint (two relatively small providers) to merge would allow for them to compete at a higher level against Verizon and AT&T, increasing consumer choice and competition for most Americans. It also requires for them to sell off Boost Mobile to address competition concerns at the lower level, and to also invest a lot into pushing 5G technology.

So, in short, the FCC has been focusing on the following to improve the
consumer experience with communications in the US:

* Pushing 5G tech

* Fighting back against robocalling and scams

* Increasing access to broadband in rural areas

~~~
beatgammit
I don't really understand why they're trying to push 5g. 4g is pretty fast,
and it's still not available everywhere. I'd much rather have more 4g than
start another arms race for faster cell towers.

If the FCC pushes anything for wider access to fast internet, I think it
should be in low orbit satellites, which offer alternatives for everyone
instead of just people who live in cities (5g) or people who live in rural
areas ($121M investment you talk about).

Are they doing anything related to satellite internet? I know SpaceX and
OneWeb are developing tech in this space, and I would absolutely love an
alternative to cellular networks for internet outside my house, and I think
it's reasonable to invest in it in exchange for allowing ISP competition with
a shared set of satellites.

------
fortran77
They'd probably get a LOT of misdials. Especially on phone systems (like mine)
where you dial 9 to get out, and 888 is a common toll-free prefix. So if I'm
dialing on a phone that's not on my phone system, I'll accidentally get the
suicide hotline.

------
jdietrich
The EU has standardised the 116 prefix for helpline services - 116 000 for
missing children, 116 111 for child helplines and 116 123 for emotional
support/suicide prevention.

[https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/content/eu-
rul...](https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/content/eu-rules-116)

------
gumby
Suicide is a profound issue so in that sense I support this.

But how many short codes can we have before we can't remember what they stand
for? IN this sense 988 is a better choice than one of the unused [2-9]11
numbers -- I can only remember one of them.

~~~
avip
e-numbers cross-dispatch so it’s not really an issue. You can call 911 in case
of fire, it’ll be relayed.

~~~
0xffff2
Huh? 911 is the number for emergency services (police, fire and paramedics),
not just the police. There's no relaying involved, 911 is who you're supposed
to call to get the fire department.

------
Clubber
I agree with the sentiment of the article. I think the suicide hotline should
also include a mental health hotline, or make a mental health hotline a
separate number. I think that would help prevent some of these mass shootings.
Perhaps a potential shooter, between planning and action, might have a moment
of clarity where they know what they are doing is wrong and could call the
number. The result could be a simple conversation along with a notification to
local or federal authorities.

Here is an interesting take on the profiles of mass shooters. The part that
jumped out at me is we need to be profiling these people as serial killers
rather than domestic terrorists. He is basing his opinion on a study of mass
shooters from today back to 1966.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht5ldqQdioM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht5ldqQdioM)

~~~
TheLastPass
> along with a notification to local or federal authorities

I think that might dissuade a lot of them, but one of the biggest problems I
see with some of the red flag laws that have been implemented is the mental
health professionals who have been involved are the only people who aren't
allowed to report you to the cops. Anyone else can, with impunity, but not
them.

~~~
Clubber
Yes, I agree. It would have to come with the contention that there wouldn't be
an arrest, punishment, etc, or that any confiscation would have a limited
term. Perhaps someone, in their moment of clarity, would understand that
confiscation is the best solution at the time. I think it's at least worth a
trial run.

Also, I believe mental health professionals are allowed to report incidents
where the patient has indicated they plan on committing a violent crime.

------
hanniabu
This seems like a no-brainer and something I thought already existed.

------
inlined
I think this is a great idea as someone who should probably have called a few
times. Silly Q though:

Are all numbers starting with 9 reserved or will we need some people to give
up their numbers?

~~~
0xffff2
988 appears to be the area code for Saginaw, MI. I assume anyone who has a
number in that area code would have to change.

------
VLM
To determine if this meets the target market or is just virtue signalling, it
would be interesting to rub the stats together to see if there's any positive
correlation.

If there's any use at all, thats nice, but higher use rate strategies should
have money spent on them first. For example if tumblr use or reddit use or
instagram use correlated higher, which seems likely, then spend the outreach
money there first to save the most people.

------
kiba
I have never even considered this. This seems to be a good idea with little
downside.

~~~
VLM
Cleaning the national number plan of 911 took a lot of work and time.

Right off the top of my head the 513 NPA (Ohio-ish) has a 988 NXX so there's a
thousand potential phone numbers that have to change. There's going to be a
ton of incoming traffic from people trying to call a dominos pizza in ohio who
manage to get themselves routed to the hotline because they dialed 988 as part
of the number.

Some people program some PBX dialplans such that pretty much any stream
including the regex _911_ goes to 911 (dial 9 for outside line and 911, dial
911 without a leading 9, etc) and they're going to try that with 988 with
predictable results (try to call your buddy who used to be extension 9889 and
you're mysteriously connected to a hotline).

The international phone dialing country code for Bangladesh is 880, that
country code will have to change because some fraction of PBX programmers and
users are going to F it up (as usual) and route all "9 for outside line 880
for Bangladesh then 123456 for the lnum" calls to the hotline.

The massive incoming call volume will require laws to reduce the massive
volume involving expensive fines and fees. That'll scare people away from
calling. Well, they say fake or repeatedly incorrectly routed calls will
result in a $1000 fine, so if someone's feeling down, they're not going to be
into a $1000 fine...

In the end it seems like it would be ridiculously cheaper, simpler, more
reliable, and safer to simply have people dial 911, and the 911 ops can read a
sticker stuck on their phone with the transfer number on it.

Overall the idea adds complication to a dangerous situation which is never
advisable. Only someone very sarcastic could say, I know what stressed people
need, is a larger more complicated decision tree when they urgently need
help... Not exactly aerospace engineering going on here. We already have a "I
need help" phone number, 911...

~~~
RKearney
> Right off the top of my head the 513 NPA (Ohio-ish) has a 988 NXX so there's
> a thousand potential phone numbers that have to change.

They can just require 10 digit dialing for that area code. It's already been
required on may others.

> Some people program some PBX dialplans such that pretty much any stream
> including the regex 911 goes to 911 (dial 9 for outside line and 911, dial
> 911 without a leading 9, etc) and they're going to try that with 988 with
> predictable results (try to call your buddy who used to be extension 9889
> and you're mysteriously connected to a hotline).

That would break so many things if they did that today. Numbers can contain
"911" within them and have nothing to do with 911. If they've made it this
long with a broken dial plan, adding another broken match for 988 won't change
much as they're already used to not being able to dial thousands upon
thousands of numbers.

> The international phone dialing country code for Bangladesh is 880, that
> country code will have to change because some fraction of PBX programmers
> and users are going to F it up (as usual) and route all "9 for outside line
> 880 for Bangladesh then 123456 for the lnum" calls to the hotline.

Generally you have to dial an international call prefix before the country
code, so this is a non issue. Without it, the phone system won't know if
you're trying to reach country code 44 for the UK, or area code 440, 441, 442,
443, or 445 in the US.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> Generally you have to dial an international call prefix before the country
> code, so this is a non issue. Without it, the phone system won't know if
> you're trying to reach country code 44 for the UK, or area code 440, 441,
> 442, 443, or 445 in the US.

...are you in the US? That isn't true at all. You start with the country code.
You can't reach any of the area codes you mentioned by dialing a number
starting with the area code, because you have to start with 1, the US country
code.

Outside the US, you can use the more unambiguous country code 001 to reach the
US. (e.g. I had difficulty calling the US from China because normal American
11-digit numbers starting with 1 are processed by Chinese carriers as 11-digit
Chinese cell phone numbers. But there, like here, there was no "international
call prefix". You just start right off with the country code.)

~~~
RKearney
> You can't reach any of the area codes you mentioned by dialing a number
> starting with the area code, because you have to start with 1, the US
> country code.

You absolutely can. 443, and 445 allow for 10 digit dialing. 442 requires a 1
prefix.

[https://nationalnanpa.com/enas/npasRequiring10DigitReport.do](https://nationalnanpa.com/enas/npasRequiring10DigitReport.do)

In the USA you need to dial 011 (the exit code) before dialing a country code.
You can't just pickup the phone and dial any countries country code and expect
it to work. If you're on a phone system that supports it, you can dial
+[country code] where the phone system will translate + into your countries
exit code.

> Outside the US, you can use the more unambiguous country code 001 to reach
> the US. (e.g. I had difficulty calling the US from China because normal
> American 11-digit numbers starting with 1 are processed by Chinese carriers
> as 11-digit Chinese cell phone numbers. But there, like here, there was no
> "international call prefix". You just start right off with the country
> code.)

Only in countries where the exit code is 00. The Country Code for the USA is
1, so in a country where the exit code is 00 that would translate to 001.

In Hong Kong, the exit code is 001, so if you wanted to reach the US you would
dial 001 1 then the US area code and number.

