
We don't need a thinner iPhone if that means killing the headphone jack - edward
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/30/9820416/apple-rumors-headphone-jack-lightning-port-iphone?utm_campaign=theverge&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
======
hoodoof
Apple made the last iPod shuffle so small that it was a bad design. The super
tiny design couldn't be operated easily when running and it was hard to press
the buttons. The "next track" button was moved so close to the headphone jack
that my fingers couldn't actually get in there to click it (the headphone jack
used to be on the other side of the device).

They trimmed a few millimeters off the edge of the device so that the clip
used to clip it to your clothing could no longer be operated easily. My
fingers kept slipping off the clip when trying to operate it.

The previous model iPod shuffle was, I think, one of the finest designed
consumer electronics ever - it didn't need anything changed. But Apple just
had to go make it smaller.

Apple seems to have come to believe that smaller is better when in fact there
is an optimal size and any smaller is detrimental to usability. Apple doesn't
understand the concept of "the right size", all it wants to do is stroke its
own ego by making things smaller.

I miss that old iPod shuffle design. I would have kept buying them buy they
are no longer available, and I'm not going to buy the crappy new useless super
tiny design.

~~~
ctdonath
Apple briefly made a Shuffle even smaller - no on-device controls. That didn't
last long, and the Shuffle returned to it's current size.

(Small size remains a problem. I've lost 3 Shuffles and a Nano in my house.
The Touch disappeared for 6 months too, reappearing in the bed frame.)

~~~
hoodoof
I felt like no-one at Apple had bothered to wear a shuffle and go for a run.
So much for the greatest usability team on earth.

~~~
JohnBooty
What do you mean? I think the clip-on shuffle is fantastic for exercise.

Edit: Thanks, I didn't realize there were multiple clip-on models

~~~
hoodoof
I agree. Yes there were two models - one with an awesome clip that worked
beautifully, the other with a reduced size clip that was a nightmare.

------
JustSomeNobody
I don't understand the desire to get ever thinner. I truly don't. I never ever
hear anyone saying their iPhone is too thick. What I hear is that the 5S had
the best design of all iPhones to date. I also hear that people would not mind
a couple millimeters thicker if it meant a larger battery.

Who is Apple listening to? Are there people out there who think the iPhone
should be thinner? (That was a rhetorical question. Of course there's someone
reading this that is going to say yes. I get that. But I don't believe for a
moment that most iPhone users want a thinner phone.)

~~~
JohnBooty

        I don't understand the desire to get ever thinner. I truly don't. I never ever hear anyone saying their iPhone is too thick.
    

This is my experience as well. I have heard people complaining about battery,
screen size, and/or durability but never thickness.

To me (an adult male) there are only really two sizes of portable objects:
things that fit comfortably in my pants pocket and things that don't. The
iPhone has passed that test for years and years now and making it thinner will
make no difference to me.

~~~
kawsper
I have a 6S which is a nice phone, but the size of an iPhone 4S was perfect
for fitting in your pocket, and you could easily use it with one-hand.

I can't one-hand my 6S.

------
vladgur
Whats being overlooked in most of the comments here is that Apple is killing
off the only non-licensed hardware input that their iDevices had since the
beginning, and the one without which a number of companies, including Square
would probably not exist.

Im not sure about this day in age, but as someone working on hardware adapter
feeding a stream of data into the iPhone in 2009 and 2010, the cost of getting
into an MFI(or whatever the licensing term for hardware/bluetooth
interoperability with iDevices was) was cost prohibitive and largely NDA-d out
for smaller startups. So we went with the audio input just like Square did.

Unless something has changed in Apple's attitude to licensing and
interoperability, the door has just been shut close for companies trying to
innovate with other hardware products interacting with iDevices.

~~~
saurik
I agree with you, but still feel the need to point out that Bluetooth LE (as
opposed to "Classic Bluetooth") is, as far as I understand, allowed to be used
by any developer without going through MFi.

------
mschuster91
If you want to develop a new connector, just use fucking MagSafe. Watertight
phones without a way for water to enter, easier cleaning because no dirt in
your pants can sneak into the connector, and if you trip on your headphone
wire (or the cat plays with it), the phone won't go down with the headphones.

~~~
celticninja
Why is there even a question over this? Combined with an adapter for existing
headphones this is the solution.

~~~
mschuster91
Because Apple owns a patent on any MagSafe technology. I do hope it expires
soon...

~~~
celticninja
Does the patent cover any use of magnets in an accessory on power cable?

------
mesozoic
Hey Apple when you start making my life more complicated (gotta carry around a
lightning to headphone adapter) it's time I stop upgrading.

~~~
austenallred
If that were truly the case you would have stopped upgrading 5 years ago

~~~
KirinDave
If only there was evidence that a lot of units of a different kind of phone
get sold and that the proportion of the market they carry has grown over the
last 5 years...

------
davnn
Product manager meeting at Apple: x: Guys, Tim told me we have to expand our
ecosystem asap. y: Yea right.. I mean we have already evaluated a few ideas
last time but im not sure if we truly understand our customers. x: Why would
that matter? y: Maybe it would then be easier to find things that could expand
our ecosystem. x: No (y), it doesn't work that way. Look at those unicorn
startups with ultra short feedback loops - they are their customers' slaves
and you should have read that in our book. We are innovators, we know what our
customers want before them. y: Oh yea that was in the book sorry. I just think
that we did not come up with promising ideas yet. x: Let's see.. where do we
have the biggest margins? y: Beats! x: Thats right! We just have to find a way
to integrate them into our ecosystem. ......

~~~
chrisdbaldwin
Ah! You caught the hook. Apple can get away with removing the 3.5mm by
packaging the iPhone 7 with (likely Beats) wearables.

------
kevin_b_er
I figure thinness is secondary. The headphone jack is not controlled by Apple
and Apple demands control. It now owns a headphone manufacturer that
manufactures devices at very high markups, so why would it continue to permit
competition on its devices with other companies? The adapter will cost enough
and be inconvenient enough that it will prevent 3rd party manufacturing of
headphones.

You say bluetooth, but that requires another battery and is much more
expensive to make that a pair of earbuds. Also Apple is now a top tier member
of the Bluetooth SIG, which controls the bluetooth standard and trademarks.
Expect your Extend phase for bluetooth soon. I personally expect nothing less
from the anti-standards anti-interoperability Apple.

------
mathgeek
"... famously killed both optical and floppy drives with no remorse — doing
things that upset people in the name of progress isn’t new for the company."

The difference with floppies and optical drives was that many people were
using alternative delivery and storage methods already. Many of us welcomed
fewer moving parts in our computers. That doesn't apply here.

------
Joeboy
Phones have been plenty small enough for some time. If there's spare space,
stick more battery in it rather than making the phone smaller.

~~~
tetraodonpuffer
not gonna happen with every reviewer oo-ing and aah-ing about the phone being
0.1mm thinner and leaving the battery to a back page where it says that it
lasted them all day therefore it's fine.

Look at Samsung having to get rid of replaceable batteries (very user friendly
and environmental) and move to glued/sealed phone because every single time a
new phone came out the reviewers complained about how it didn't feel "premium"
enough due to the plastic back (which personally I think is a lot more user-
friendly than glass anyways)

If the market continues to reward style over substance, that is what we will
get, people will keep grumbling about the too-low battery life but will still
upgrade every year or two to the latest-and-greatest.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
If Apple switches to USB-C for the iPhone and friends, then this would make
sense, because with USB-C EarPods they could replace the headphone jack on the
MacBook with a second USB-C port.

~~~
sneak
Ash port durbatulûk, ash port gimbatul, ash port thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi
krimpatul.

------
6stringmerc
Look, I'm not on some big high-horse about audio quality in the modern era
(cough Pono cough), so I really don't see any reason to be upset with Apple
deciding "thinner" is an improvement by way of ditching support for a widely
used industry standard. We're talking about consumer electronics, an industry
where (subjectively speaking) over-priced, under-performing headphones like
Beats command significant status and market share. iDevices are nice-to-have
items, and after having several, I can honestly say I care less about
upgrading for 'features' and more about build quality concerns (having various
buttons giving out across different models, etc) so I'm really comfortable
viewing Apple products as expensive yet disposable items. _Shrug_

Oh, and anybody who is surprised by such a mentality might want to refresh a
few historical examples. CD-Rom drives, gone. Final Cut? Turned into consumer-
class software. Now they have a high-priced laptop with a single connector
which really doesn't make sense for live performers and professionals. It's
kind of how the company does business, so yeah I buy this rumor somewhat.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Apple dropped the Ethernet port from the MacBook Pro because it was too big,
and the MacBook Air couldn't have an HDMI port for the same reason. But they
replaced both of those with WiFi and Mini DisplayPort (now Thunderbolt).

~~~
kayamon
They didn't "replace" the Ethernet with WiFi. The WiFi was always there.

The Ethernet port was for people who _needed_ to plug into an Ethernet socket.
If you still have that need, WiFi doesn't replace that. So now you're in a
situation where you _need_ to plug in an external adapter every single time.

------
mmariani
The next headphone connector standard is Bluetooth. No messy cables, great
quality, and good battery life (I get 20+ hours with my headphones). I don't
get all the fuss. Just make it thinner already.

------
revelation
How does the author go from "Apple shouldn't get rid of the perfectly fine
headphone jack" to "The truth is we need a new standard for headphones, and we
haven’t figured out what that is yet."?

~~~
darkstar999
Author also fails to explain _why_ the 3.5mm standard "needs" to be replaced.

------
massysett
I thought it crazy to make the iPad Air 2 so thin. But now that I have one I
see the benefit. Just reducing the effort required to pick the thing up is a
big benefit.

I rarely use corded headphones and would not miss the jack.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I really appreciate that I can relatively easily pick up my MacBook Air. But
it still requires quite a bit of effort. The MacBook dropped all ports bar two
so it could be lighter and thinner, and while that bothers some people, I'd
love a laptop that lightweight.

------
nik_0_0
"Apple is reportedly planning on shipping EarPods that connect through the
Lighting port with the next iPhone"

Good proofreading Verge. Also blanket statements like "no one is clamoring for
a thinner iPhone".

I look forward to iPhone removing the headphone jack, making a thinner,
lighter phone, and also propelling forward the market demand for bluetooth
headphones. I love my Jaybirds, but there needs to be more players in the
market.

I mean, it would also be great if it also shipped with a lightning -> 3.5mm
adapter, but there is almost no chance of that happening. You can buy one for
40$.

~~~
KirinDave
I look forward to more people joining me outside the ecosystem of iPhone, so I
think we are aligned.

Apple is systematically strangling the ecosystem to force their short-term
prosperity. Their price setting, app store review model, NDA on developers
(the fearful silence devs are forced into) and their increasingly bad mobile
UI are things worth killing.

So I hope Apple continues to isolate their ecosystem, because while the upshot
is you can make more money selling the entire ecosystem (or licensing it), the
downside is that it gets easier and easier for people to start ignoring you.

~~~
zarify
I'm with you on the price setting and App Store stuff, but it was my
impression that they had gotten much better about the NDA issue over the last
couple of years.

I would love to see the 3.5mm jack disappear though. I have mixed feelings
about consolidating on Lightning though considering that it'd mean the end of
auxiliary in car trips for those of us not BT enabled. Regardless of how you
feel about the quest for thinness, the headphone jack is unreasonably wide,
and something thinner would make it easier to get other components in there,
as well as opening it up for other control methods beyond the simple clicker
found on many headphones without the need for any hackery to do it.

I think it'd be inevitable that they would then license it rather than making
it an open hardware spec, which would be a crying shame though.

------
frou_dh
Not that I'm advocating doing away with wired earphones completely, but I'd
just like to mention how _ridiculously_ inexpensive passable bluetooth
earphones have become. "Bluedio N2" stereo bluetooth IEMs (incl mic/remote)...
_SUB-$10!_ Delivered! From China!

No, the sound quality is not as good as my wired Etymotics, but being
unattached to the phone is often preferable. These things are head and
shoulders the best bang/buck I've ever had in consumer electronics. Stockpiled
3 pairs.

~~~
mrcrassic
Word. My Qy8 IEMs from some no-name Chinese electronics company were $25
shipped and sound just as good as Jaybirds! I was shocked that they've gotten
this good now.

------
crunchiness
Well, there was a time when phones didn't have headphone jacks, but could play
music and would often ship with proprietary shitty earphones, and everyone had
their standard (same as for chargers). And I'm pretty sure people just used to
use mp3 players more rather than buying adapters.

But somehow everything went the standardization way, so why on earth would
this (alleged) Apple's move be considered progress, I have no idea.

Also don't really see why 3.5mm jack "needs to be replaced". MicroUSB is worse
imo.

------
rabboRubble
You know, I have my original iPhone3GS with the original charging cable. This
ancient cable is in perfect shape.

Meanwhile, my much younger iPhone5, I've gone through 3 Lightening cables and
of the 3, 2 have fully blown out. They are complete crap.

The iPhone5 headphone cables are okay-ish and better quality compared to the
Lightening cable.

Get rid of the stupid crappy made Lightening and keep the headphone jack.
Figure out why the Lightening cables are such crap and fix them!

------
jinushaun
I'm fine with ditching the headphone jack for lightning. Whatever. I use the
stock EarPods anyway, and an adapter won't be the end of the world. High end
headphones are already stupidly bulky for mobile usage and an adapter won't
make it worse. And headphone manufacturers will probably start shipping with
adapters like they already do with multiple earbud sizes if there is a
lightning/usb-c split anyway.

What I do have a problem with is thinness for thinness' sake. I upgraded from
an iPhone 4 to an iPhone 6—skipping the 4S, 5 and 5S—and noticed no
improvement in battery life! We're talking brand new day-one battery
performance comparable to a busted 2 year old phone. I can't go a whole day
without needing to recharge my 6. I can't believe Apple hasn't gotten into the
battery bank game yet since I now own several of them and can't live without
them.

Stopping me making phones thinner. Make the battery bigger!

~~~
massysett
You need the Plus. It can last two days on a charge, and will last a day even
if you're doing battery burners like GPS. Now there's the best of both worlds:
for small, get the 6; for big and battery, get the Plus. Some folks like small
and don't want their phone fattened.

------
JohnBooty
Possible alternate explanation: maybe Apple is promoting Lightning headphones
not because they want to eliminate the headphone jack, but because they intend
to start pushing some kind of smart functionality to headphones and audio
devices.

That's pure speculation. No clue what that functionality might be. What if
they were leveraging the processing power of the iPhone to achieve some kind
of adaptive noise canceling on any headphones? I don't know.

I do know this: this isn't like dropping the floppy drive or optical drives on
Macs. By the time those were dropped, hardly anybody was using those features
on their Macs. But a casual glance around any plane or public transit tells
you that a lot people use their headphone jacks all the time.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
EarPod cameras?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcPhMqLPuvQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcPhMqLPuvQ)

------
Spooky23
This is solving a problem that nobody has, and replacing it with an obvious
set of real problems.

Who wants to buy expensive certified headphones or wireless in all cases?
Headphones are pure commodity -- they can be had for $3.

I wouldn't buy another iOS device if this happens.

------
JoshTriplett
As long as there's an adapter that provides a headphone jack, I don't see a
problem in removing the onboard headphone jack.

The bigger problem lies with the use of Lightning to begin with, rather than a
standard like USB type-C. That would solve the power problem: adapters exist
to split out power and other ports from a single type-C port. It would also
solve the "only works with" problem, since normal USB headphones would work,
or analog-over-type-C devices; that, unfortunately, makes it far less likely
to happen on an iDevice.

I look forward to incredibly thin Android devices with nothing except type-C,
though.

~~~
panic
_As long as there 's an adapter that provides a headphone jack, I don't see a
problem in removing the onboard headphone jack._

Well, you have to keep track of an adapter, which you can easily lose or
forget to bring with you.

~~~
baldeagle
Or you could just attach it to the end of your headphones, and store it with
them. That would cover the bulk of the cases, except people that need to plug
into multiple AV outputs throughout the day.

~~~
gambiting
What do you do if you need to charge your phone but also want to listen to
some music at the same time? Another special adapter that allows you to plug
in both?

~~~
sb23
Bluetooth headphones, or wireless charging would both solve this issue

~~~
gambiting
1) Audio over bluetooth offers mediocre sound quality at best. It's really not
ideal.

2) So....I'm on my bed, 3% of battery left, and I want to watch something on
YT on my phone. Right now, I simply connect the power cable to it + my
headphones. With wireless charging I can't be watching anything because the
phone has to stay on the charging cradle. Or if I connect the cable, then I
can't connect headphones.

------
dragonwriter
> How could you charge your phone and listen to music simultaneously?

The _could_ have things like existing microUSB-to-HDMI adapters for mobile
devices, where the adapter also has a charging-only microUSB port.

Or it could use wireless charging.

Or Apple, who is great at optimizing for what they perceive to be the most
common use case and selling it as all people need, might just consider
simultaneous charging and headphone use as an unimportant niche case.

------
bhauer
I am no fan of Apple's phones, last I used being an iPhone 2. But this
argument is nonsense to my mind. I cannot remember the last time I used the
headphone adapter on my phone. It was probably at least two phone upgrades
ago, making it an early generation Android device (I have since dumped Android
for Windows).

Modern mobile headphones, speakers, and automobiles attach to the device via
Bluetooth. If am doing high-fidelity listening using good headphones, I'm not
playing the audio from my phone anyway; I am at home with my proper audio
equipment. I don't know anyone who uses the headphone port on their phone.

That said, I _agree_ that I'm not clamoring for an ultra-thin device,
principally because I don't find it particularly easy to hold a super thin
phone. I'm not ruling out the possibility that an ultra-thin device could be
designed that is easy to hold, but of all the problems I have with mobile
computing, _thickness_ is not in my top 50 complaints. In fact, subjective or
apparent fragility is more a concern than thickness, and reducing thickness
will inevitably (I feel) increase apparent fragility.

~~~
JohnBooty
I don't think your experience is representative. The wired headphone business
is booming.

    
    
         If am doing high-fidelity listening using good headphones, I'm not playing the audio from my phone anyway; I am at home with my proper audio equipment.
    

Audio quality over headphones is typically a thing that Apple does really
well. Objectively measured, the iPhone's DAC and headphone amp are darn good:
[http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6-plus.htm#measureme...](http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6-plus.htm#measurements)

The built-in amp may be lacking in power if you're using hard-to-drive
headphones.

    
    
        Bluetooth [...] high-fidelity
    

I've read that Bluetooth headphones that support the AAC codec sound great
(theoretically this can avoid transcoding if your music is AAC) although
they're few and far between.

------
post_break
Apple will make millions for licensing MFA lightning to 3.5mm adapters. The
only reason I would want something like this is if the lightning port was more
like magsafe, magnetic. Break away headphone jack? Yes please.

~~~
KirinDave
Apple has billions. Why are they going to pick a fight with everyone to make
millions?

~~~
JohnBooty
Yes. Of every possible reason to eliminate the headphone jack, the idea that a
$200bil company wants to make a few extra _million_ dollars is literally the
only reason I'd conclusively rule out.

It would take a $2bil product to even change their revenue by 1%. They're not
going to make a big strategic move for a few million.

~~~
post_break
They make more on peripherals than the Mac or Software.
[http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Screen-
shot...](http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Screen-
shot-2011-01-25-at-1-25-11.33.04-AM.png)

~~~
JohnBooty
No, you're reading that wrong. That's a stacked graph.

------
martin_bech
i have a solution for a headset which would work with a thinner iPhone, Mac,
Macbook and so on. It's already a standard and its called bluetooth.

[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MKLD2AM/A/beats-by-dr-
dre-...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MKLD2AM/A/beats-by-dr-dre-
solo2-wireless-headphones-gold?fnode=7a)

------
awqrre
Apple is planning on going in the headphone business?

~~~
derefr
They already are; they own Beats.

~~~
awqrre
I should have looked it up first, but I'm surprised that so much time elapsed
between the 2 actions. Maybe some other reason is the root cause of this
decision then (some people use this port for other purposes for example).

------
panglott
Still bitter about killing off the 3.5" floppy, huh? I for one would like a
thinner iPhone eventually. It's ridiculous to think that the thickness of the
legacy headphone jack is such a sacred cow that it should limit all future
hardware designs.

~~~
scott_karana
Pretty sure that "universal interoperability of a still-useful interface with
a 100+ year legacy" was the sacred cow, balanced against the "usefulness" of
paper-thin, flimsy, low-mAh-speculated phones. Not its size.

~~~
panglott
I love the stereo minijack, too. But as the author concludes "The truth is we
need a new standard for headphones, and we haven’t figured out what that is
yet. The shift from 3.5mm to whatever the next standard may be will be
painful..."

And yet, the first step will require a first step. Apple could take it, and
catch hell for it, but hopefully a better future standard would be the result.

~~~
scott_karana
I don't hold out any hope that Apple will be the harbinger of an open,
interoperable format.

I think other comments here have the right idea: they want to remove the last
uncontrolled, competitive port on their device.

------
oneeyedpigeon
It's alright, you can just use an iPod.

...

Oops.

------
LinkDJ
But... bluetooth exists!

~~~
niels_olson
Genius. I can carry batteries on my ears. Oh, that sounds heavenly. /sarcasm.

~~~
LinkDJ
I've had bluetooth headphones for 18 months, they get 13 hours of battery life
and I charge them about once a week. It's really not an issue.

------
celticninja
Non issue.

One word - adapter.

~~~
krisdol
on adapter vs thicker phone, I'd much rather choose thicker phone.

~~~
celticninja
I would take a thicker phone with a longer battery life over a thinner phone.

------
tambourine_man
Like the floppy disk, we will be thanking Apple for killing the headphone jack
in 5 years.

Sure, it will be a bit of a pain in the mean time, but worth it in the long
run.

~~~
krisdol
All it will do is create yet-another-strandard.gif. The recording,
performance, and production industry isn't throwing away wired headphone jacks
any time soon, and is not swayed by apple trends -- and neither are
audiophiles, but they're a smaller market driver. For the most part, it will
lead to more fragmentation and higher markups on proprietary devices.

Frankly, I don't see the pain with the headphone jack. It's raw sound
delivered in the simplest possible circuits. I don't understand what we gain
by complicating the transport of soundwaves, as it's certainly not quality. I
wish historic search was easier, because this whole "apple is getting rid of
the headphone jack" gets repeated and squashed year after year.

~~~
tambourine_man
_The recording, performance, and production industry isn 't throwing away
wired headphone jacks any time soon and is not swayed by apple trends_

Yeah, Apple is not an influential company in this field at all, and not a
trend setter in general.

 _…and neither are audiophiles…_

I'm sure audiophiles would hate the demise of an analog format in favor of a
purely digital one.

~~~
krisdol
>I'm sure audiophiles would hate the demise of an analog format in favor of a
purely digital one.

Are you being sarcastic?

~~~
tambourine_man
Yes

~~~
krisdol
Audiophiles are strange people. I wouldn't be too sure on them preferring
digital.

------
dkrich
_How could you charge your phone and listen to music simultaneously?_

There could be two lighting ports. After all, there is currently a lighting
port and a 3.5mm jack, so why would replacing the jack with a lightning port
be out of the question?

 _But what if I want to play music at a party?_

Use Bluetooth.

 _But my current set of headphones won 't work!_

Get a new pair. Think that's ridiculous? Most people buy new headphones pretty
often, it's not that hard to imagine that in a year's time when the iPhone 7
comes out that people who don't currently have Bluetooth headphones (which
would work anyway) or a lighting port compatible set of headphones that aren't
satisfied with the set that ship with the iPhone (probably not an overwhelming
percentage) wouldn't buy a new set.

~~~
bweitzman
Bluetooth is tolerably good but a headphone jack works so much better if
you're listening on headphones IMO

Not to mention that most companies making medium-to-high end headphones are
not even dealing with bluetooth.

~~~
KirinDave
Can I just be honest for a second?

No one actually cares about the "I want to DJ at a party!" usecase that badly.
Those people that do will carry the right cables, like they already probably
have to.

Seriously, pretending that's an important use case is what lead Google to
invent the Nexus Q and no one cared about that even though it was a stunning
device.

------
Animats
_" We need a new standard for headphones, and we haven’t figured out what that
is yet."_

Bluetooth stereo headsets have been available for years. It's time for the
all-wireless phone - wireless charging, wireless everything else. Waterproof,
too.

Are people still using iDweebs with their silly white wires?

~~~
spdionis
I want to see wireless waterproof :D

