
Where did all the cod go? Fishing crisis in the North Sea - pseudolus
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/18/where-did-all-the-cod-go-fish-chips-north-sea-sustainable-stocks
======
hanche
Reading _The unnatural history of the sea_ by Callum Roberts really blew my
mind. It is almost impossible to imagine how rich the seas were – in fish and
other life – before we started large scale fishing, centuries ago. This is a
stunning example of the problem of shifting baselines: We tend think that the
normal state of the world is what we grew up with, when we really should use
the world as it looked to our great-great-great-grandfathers (at least) as the
baseline.

~~~
preommr
There's a heritage minutes video
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds8G9sFOK5w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds8G9sFOK5w)
~1 min long) about John Cabot who's ship got slowed down because there were so
many cod in the water. It ends with him going back to england and saying that
there's enough fish to feed people until the end of time.

We really fucked things up.

~~~
hanche
Correction: Our _forefathers_ really fucked things up. _We_ are merely
continuing what they started.

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post_break
Makes me think of that documentary on netflix. Cod industry were jumping up
and down screaming that limits would kill the industry and put people out of
work. Saying the scientists were lying there were way more cod than they were
accounting for.

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Kaibeezy
Soon it will be squid ‘n’ chips.

 _The traditional British fish supper could be replaced by the likes of squid
as the waters around the UK 's shores grow warmer, say government scientists._

[https://www.bbc.com/news/science-
environment-38265395](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38265395)

~~~
dalbasal
Takeaway fish suppers in England go back a long way. As the legend goes, fish-
n-chips (sans-chips, since potatoes, still hadn't arrived) was established by
Jewish migrants (around 1500) exiled from Spain. The UK was getting more
nautical att, so I assume the trend dovetailed with increased commercial
fishing.

This new, cosmopolitan fish n chips thing would hundreds of years before it
was more popular than the more traditional jellied eel n peas. I think that
was the most popular takeaway supper until eel numbers started to hurt from
industrial pollution.

Industrial-scale cod fishing started producing as freshwater and shore fish
stocks declined. I imagine the batter's job was to mask the "weird" texture
and flavour.

These days, picky eaters in the UK will _only_ eat cod (or stuff dubiously
labeled cod). No freshwater fish that isn't a trout is considered edible in
the UK, even though Americans and Europeans eat pike, eel, perch, etc.

Anyway, preferences and availability always play on each other over time.
Kalamari n' chips works for me. Make mine sweet potato please.

~~~
chrisseaton
> I imagine the batter's job was to mask the "weird" texture and flavour.

I thought the batter was originally there as a crust in which the fish would
steam in its own moisture, and some people claim it was originally discarded
after cooking, until people started to eat it as well.

~~~
mc32
I recall hearing somewhere tempura was introduced into Japan by the Portuguese
in the 1500s.

I wonder if they had an influence on British battered foods as well?

~~~
phpnode
it's simple enough that it has probably been rediscovered independently many
times throughout history.

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grandinj
Nothing much will change (unfortunately) until the fish population crashes,
the fishing industry is decimated, and thus there is no-one left to complain
when sustainable fishing laws are passed. I really wish it were otherwise.

------
ArtDev
Cod should not be difficult to farm like any other animal. We have the
technology.

I was a fisheries observer before I changed careers to programming.

Longline fishing is insanely unsustainable. Seeing and recording the bycatch
is both heartbreaking and makes you incredibly angry.

~~~
jimnotgym
I once heard trawling and dredging described as, "like cutting down the forest
to kill a squirrel".

~~~
goatinaboat
I’ve dived areas that have been dredged. There is is literally no life for
miles. Whereas before it was teeming with life... that’s what attracted the
dredgers.

------
hprotagonist
“We ate them all.”

Pretty terse answer, really.

~~~
klyrs
"...and destroyed their breeding ground."

I'm not sure about the fishing industry but there's an odd phenomenon among
loggers. Loggers hate tree-planters. It's as if it's a war on trees, and
hippies are supporting the enemy. The notion that today's saplings are next-
generation loggers' income never seems to take

~~~
DennisP
That's sadly unsurprising. If you have a source talking about that, I'd like
to share it with others.

~~~
klyrs
Nope, personal experience in a logging town

~~~
bshipp
Growing up a family friend owned a tree planting company and I got to know
many of them before they headed north to start the season. My memory (in the
early 80's) is definitely a large group of young, university-aged, smelly,
bearded men (and a few non-bearded young women) camping in tents and showering
in the open.

I can imagine the distaste for professional loggers was more for the foolish
behaviour of transient young people compared to the "professional" loggers
than the actual act of tree planting. But that's just a guess.

------
melling
Atlantic cod was overfished years ago:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_cod](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_cod)

When will humans learn?

~~~
sebazzz
Though the movie "Matrix" is obviously fiction, these lines from Smith always
hit home to me:

> Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium
> with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to
> another area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural
> resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another
> area.

No areas left.

~~~
chr1
The first matrix was a good movie but this quote is not a good one.

All the mammals (and other animals) multiply as much as they can, only not
having enough to eat, or another species eating them can stop that. In most
cases populations fluctuate around some equilibrium, but that's caused by
dying off in other cases, not by some instinctive virtue.

Humans multiply because they can increase the amount of available resource
with technology, not by moving to new area.

~~~
jetrink
It's interesting that Agent Smith (mis)conceptualizes nature as a sort of
machine like the Matrix. Nature maintains a stable equilibrium (like the
Matrix is designed to) and animals plug themselves into this machine and help
maintain stability using feedback loops.

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simonhughes22
Did anyone else read that first sentence as 'Where did all the codE go?" And
then do a double-take? Maybe I need more coffee....

