
Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him - ProAm
https://petapixel.com/2020/02/21/amazon-let-a-fraudster-keep-my-sony-a7r-iv-and-refunded-him-2900/
======
canada_dry
This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other
shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package
shipping certification.

If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a
shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up
as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In
turn the shipper would get an extra fee.

For high value items (i.e. like OP's camera) it would certainly _be in
everyone 's best interest_ and platforms like ebay, Facebook, Amazon could
insist that all parties use this type of service or relinquish their ability
to dispute.

Too over simplified??

~~~
jrockway
At least for camera equipment, this does exist. You can take your camera to
B&H's used department, and they will buy it from you. You can also go to B&H's
used department and buy a used camera from them.

The advantage of this over Amazon is that as a seller, you know B&H isn't
going to screw you over in any way, and if they do, you know where to serve
your lawsuit. A trusted business with a physical location is the counterparty
in your transaction, which makes it pretty low risk. As a buyer, you know B&H
is trustworthy and you can come back to the store and have a problem resolved.

Amazon offers nothing in a typical Amazon.com transaction beyond matching
buyer and seller. They can't trust the buyer, and they can't trust the seller.
So they can't really help with the transaction in any way, they are just there
to take a cut for basically nothing. B&H takes a larger cut, but they actually
do something.

Of course, people like money, so Amazon is rolling in it while most people
don't even know that they can sell their camera to B&H. (I've bought used
stuff from them because I don't trust random eBay listings, but never sold
anything because the amount of money they offer wasn't worth it to me.)

~~~
URSpider94
Sure, but B&H is probably going to take a good 30% premium in that
transaction, if not more. Which is certainly better than losing a camera and
getting 0% back...

Over 1000 transactions, you’d do better selling on Amazon. On one transaction,
your statistical outcome is still the same, but you run the risk of hitting
that one bad outcome.

~~~
Godel_unicode
How can you possibly know what the expected value is of selling high price
commodities on Amazon?

------
ebaySucks123
I had the same exact experience the last time I sold on ebay, in 2017. I sold
an $800 item. One day before the claim window closed, the buyer filed a claim
saying it had never arrived and claiming they emailed me several times and I
never responded. I submitted proof of delivery from UPS and pointed out the
simple fact that I had received no messages from the buyer through ebay
messaging. Ebay gave them a full refund and refused to speak to me about it.
When I called them and waited on hold for several hours, they literally just
hung up on me. I closed my ebay and paypal accounts and I’ll never use them
again.

~~~
amatecha
Yeah, I've heard stuff like this for years and years and long ago decided I
will never sell anything online. Craigslist in-person only.

~~~
grecy
I've even got friends who are scared of that - apparently it's a real thing
that when you show up to sell something (camera, lens, phone) multiple people
will be there to distract you, snatch it and run. Even in broad daylight in a
crowded area.

~~~
amatecha
Oh yeah, I actively assume such a setup is in place every time I go to make a
Craigslist exchange. Thus far has never happened, but even if they tried it
wouldn't succeed. Multiple family members in police services has helped me
know the "tricks of the trade" from a young age, hahah ^_^

~~~
Ghjklov
Can you expand on what tricks they use and what to look out for ? Would love
to know

------
milankragujevic
Similar thing happened to me with PayPal, buyer got to keep the item, and got
a refund (by doing a chargeback on their CC) and I got billed the amount + 15%
of fees and punishment. I provided exhausting proof of delivery and that there
was no contact or complaints from the buyer, but they didn't care. They said,
since it's a chargeback, they HAVE to give them their money back. The buyer
was a client of Commonwealth Bank of Australia.

Ironically, when I tried doing a chargeback on a transaction as a buyer, I got
denied after waiting for 30 days for a reply, and had to pay a fee for an
"untruthful claim". The bank is Erste Bank in Serbia. In my opinion my claim
was valid, as the seller did not reply to me at all.

~~~
nicolas_t
Interestingly about chargeback, I've noticed the same. I tried to file a
chargeback with my bank in France and got denied despite it being a valid
claim and me providing all the documentation for it.

But, when I used my US credit card to file a chargeback it went through fine
and there was no issue. I wonder if some countries are more lax with charge
backs?

~~~
milankragujevic
Yes, it seems to me that USA (and in my case Australia) have extremely pro-
customer payment protection. Europe, especially outside of the EEA, is very
pro-bank and anti-customer in the specific niche of card payments.

The explanation I get is that if a card payment was verified by the customer
with 3D Secure, it is considered valid and cannot be challenged. Which is
true, the customer did enter their personal password on the page, and then the
code received by SMS that's valid for 30 seconds. What the banks neglect to
consider is a non-cooperating merchant that refuses to return money that was
paid under a sales contract and specific conditions, i.e. "I am buying a light
green colored desk lamp with frosted glass", and receiving a broken product,
or "Item significantly not as described" \-- counterfeit product, or a pink
ceiling lamp with transparent glass. Banks in the USA almost always take the
customer's side.

Interesting to note (because of the proximity and similarity between Canada
and USA, vs. say Germany or Spain or Russia), Canadian banks, as far as I know
(from friends there), do not take the customers' side if there is no doubt in
the security of the payment process and the validity of the authorization,
regardless of the claims by the customer.

~~~
AnssiH
> The explanation I get is that if a card payment was verified by the customer
> with 3D Secure, it is considered valid and cannot be challenged.

Was this with a credit card or a debit card?

At least with my (European) bank the above is only true for debit cards, while
credit card payments can also be chargebacked on contract disputes with the
seller.

~~~
milankragujevic
In Serbia it is the same, the protections fall under the card issuer
(MasterCard/VISA). I then went ahead and read up on MasterCard's Zero
Liability procedure, and asked the bank again. They again lied and pretended I
misunderstood the document. So, yeah, protection is apparently the same for
credit and debit cards, and it's basically none.

To submit a chargeback you physically have to go into the bank office, and
write a statement, sign at least 5 papers, and wait 30 days for a REPLY. If
they approve it, wait 15 days to get the money back, but they can extend it up
to 45 days, for a total 75 days of agony and hell.

What is the worst thing to me is that MasterCard/VISA rules should be the same
worldwide, and at least for MasterCard, the rules are the same on the Serbia-
specific website ([https://www.mastercard.rs/sr-
rs.html](https://www.mastercard.rs/sr-rs.html)), yet every bank lies it's way
into non-compliants with hand-wavy statements about their own terms.
Additionally, I pay for a MasterCard Gold which is 3x the price of the regular
card, so I could evade this bull __it, yet I 'm in the same problem as
everyone else.

------
ikeboy
>I denied the return.

And that's your problem. If you deny a return within the return period, you're
in violation of Amazon policy, and the A-Z team will rightly rule against you.
The correct response is to accept the return, then deny a refund after it
comes back to you because it wasn't sent back with the same accessories you
sent it with.

~~~
scottlamb
Why do they have a "violate policy and eventually lose dispute" button then?

~~~
ikeboy
Frankly, because the team that sets policy is different from the team that
makes the buttons. The policy has lots of exceptions - e.g. some categories
can't be returned, like groceries. To disable that button, they'd have to
check for all the exceptions and constantly update it whenever a policy
changed.

They did change to automatically approving returns a few years ago, but with
an opt-out ability. My guess is either OP's product fell into an obscure
exception to that rule, or OP opted out, or something similar.

~~~
thaumasiotes
It seems like there's room for a confirmation/warning on the button, though.
("If this is a returnable product, accepting the return is mandatory."
"Disputes occur at a different stage of the process.")

~~~
ikeboy
I'm not an active seller anymore so I can't check how it currently works. I
believe it did show whether the return is in or out of policy. I'm also not
sure if there's actually a deny return button, or only an accept button and an
option to close the return (which you could if you resolved the issue without
returning, which sellers are encouraged to do).

------
jfim
Wouldn't that be a good small claims court case? There's good documentation
that the item has been shipped, and the seller is out of both the money and
the camera.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
But when you use Amazon you agree to binding arbitration...

~~~
kube-system
Why not take the buyer to small claims? Or at least, have a lawyer draft them
a nice letter.

~~~
tedivm
How? All they have from Amazon is a last initial.

~~~
kube-system
And an address. That's probably enough.

[https://www.whitepages.com/reverse-
address](https://www.whitepages.com/reverse-address)

~~~
ChoGGi
Could just be a reshipper (or whatever they're called) address which then goes
to the actual address out of the country?

------
node1
I have heard many stories online where customers bought new graphic
cards/cpus/camera gear from 'Sold by Amazon.com' but instead receive used
ones. Or receive different cheaper (older generation) products.

It does not seem to be a good place to buy or sell expensive items.

~~~
simmers
I've received two used products from Amazon (bought as "new") in just the last
year. First was an espresso machine. It wasn't even cleaned - coffee grounds
were everywhere. The second was a robot vacuum that had a full dust bin. After
turning it on, I could see the previous owner's home layout in its memory. In
both cases, the product still worked and it wasn't worth the hassle of
returning. Whenever I buy something, I make sure to check for non-Amazon
alternatives, even box stores.

~~~
jimmaswell
Going off Amazon's just not worth it in my experience. Slow and/or expensive
shipping (week/weeks vs 1-2 days), no/limited returns (4wheelparts for example
deducts shipping costs from a return if you had free shipping, which is
already factored into thw price so they're double dipping), no canceling often
(4wheelparts again), worse search/interface, and no 5% back from my card. I
only order outside Amazon as a last resort these days.

------
crmrc114
Did you sell it as used? If you opened the package and touched the product it
can no longer be sold as new. I have called out sellers on this crap before
and gotten my money back. When I order new I expect a factory sealed box.
(Also illegal in the US
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/20.1](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/20.1)
)

So assuming you sold this as used, that sucks I feel for you. However if your
one of those scumbags who sells used things on Amazon as new I have no
sympathy and I would happily report you for my money back. (I have encountered
this maybe twice in all the electronics I buy on Amazon)

If you want to sell used things you have opened, flag them as such on Amazon
or go to Ebay. I buy from both places and will always take a deal on a cheaper
gently used item if its disclosed up front.

Edit: For clarity, FTA > "To this day, I have no idea what he claimed was
“missing” from the package. I even included all the original plastic wrap!" He
opened a factory box and unwrapped the product. How else would he photograph
all the parts with the kit?

~~~
tempestn
Does Amazon not have a "New, open box" option?

~~~
CamelCaseName
Almost. The correct condition would be "Used - Like New" [0]

The reason why this matters is because "New" items are grouped in a separate
tab/link on the product detail page.

Frankly speaking, selling anything other than sealed products in perfect
conditions as "New" opens you up to misery.

[0]
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201889720)

~~~
tempestn
I don't know, that page seems a bit ambiguous to me:

> New: Just like it sounds. A brand-new, item. Original manufacturer's
> warranty, if any, still applies, with warranty details included in the
> listing comments. Original packaging is present for most New items but
> certain items like shoes may be re-boxed.

> Used - Like New or Open Box: An item in perfect working condition. Original
> protective wrapping may be missing, but the original packaging is intact and
> in good condition with minor damage possible. Instructions are included.

Reading those two descriptions, and considering a brand new, never used item,
which has had the box opened and then the items re-packed into it as they
originally were (in perfect condition, in their original wrap, unused, no
fingerprints, etc.), I would definitely consider that "new", not "used - like
new". As a buyer I would also have no problem receiving such an item.

~~~
crazygringo
There is _zero_ ambiguity in that.

If the box had any kind of shrink wrap, adhesive seal, or anything else that's
now missing or broken, it is _unambiguously_ "Used - Like New or Open Box".
That's _literally_ what "open box" means.

As I buyer, I would _absolutely_ have a problem buying, say, a new MacBook on
Amazon that was missing its original shrink-wrap.

It's simple: is there _any_ detectable difference from how you bought it, or
any packaging replaced? If so, then it's _not new_. Period.

~~~
totalZero
When I bought my Canon camera new from an authorized dealer, it didn't come
with a seal nor overwrap. I do agree with you, but not all products are
sealed.

------
saurik
Is Amazon even supposed to be a reasonable place for small scale sellers to
try to operate? The entire mechanism of credit cards and large scale markets
is based on the idea that you reduce user friction in order to get more sales
en aggregate. Can you imagine Best Buy caring "Visa let a fraudster keep the
refrigerator they purchased from us and even refunded them $3000"? Something
like that probably happens every week. If you care about every individual sale
you need entirely different sales apparatus and pipeline than something like
Amazon, for whom we have also heard stories recently here on HN of them
shipping multiple items to someone and just telling the customer not to bother
returning it as it will be more trouble for everyone than it is really worth
it to them.

------
CamelCaseName
Wrong takeaway.

If you're going to sell on Amazon, use FBA.

A-z claims cannot be filed on FBA orders.

If this is in fact your last sale on Amazon, and you no longer intend to do
business with them, email Jeff@Amazon.com as a last resort.

Keep in mind, that email should not be used lightly. Be succinct and stoic.
Provide proof that you have done everything else to resolve the matter.

~~~
lucasmullens
Does emailing the CEO really work? If I contact regular Amazon support, I end
up talking to a bot presumably since their employee time is so valuable. But I
can just hit up Jeff like it's no big deal?

Honestly asking, there might be some special team to go through the
jeff@amazon.com emails.

~~~
fossuser
There's a history where people email Bezos and he'll forward that email along
to someone responsible for that thing with a single '?'. [0]

[https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/5-years-later-jeff-
bezos-...](https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/5-years-later-jeff-bezos-just-
confirmed-jeff-bezos-question-mark-method-that-scares-heck-out-of-everyone-at-
amazon-heres-how-it-works.html)

~~~
justsid
TIL: My boss works the exact same way as Jeff Bezos.

------
sevenf0ur
> If you’re going to sell on Amazon or elsewhere, take an actual video of you
> packing the camera. You need all the defense you can get against items
> mysteriously disappearing.

Isn't this evidence just as bad as the buyer's account that he didn't receive
any accessories? One could just unpack the box right after filming.

~~~
_underfl0w_
I think this every time someone suggests filming _part_ of the transaction.
Nowhere does video of an action imply that it was not _immediately undone_
right after filming.

~~~
lstamour
But the same might be true if you filmed the entire transaction. The only way
you’d have proof is if you hand deliver it the entire way and as you validate
with the buyer that everything works at that point and the transaction is
over. Even then, the third-party holding the funds in escrow has to be
satisfied or you could have a buyer disagree and say that was a different
transaction than the one it applied to, a different camera...

------
laurentdc
Similar thing happened to me with eBay and PayPal. I sold a Marantz CD player,
well packaged, took plenty of pictures. Buyer claimed that the RCA connectors
were "slightly bent" (he refused to send pictures of that - but it's a normal
thing, there's some PCB flex) and that there was a scratch on a certain side
that I hadn't photographed, using this to imply that I wanted to hide the
scratch.

I offered him to return the item even at my expense, he refused. He threatened
of negative feedback, made a claim with PayPal and got half the amount back
pretty much instantly, and kept the item of course.

Since this I've decided that when I don't need something anymore I'm just
better off donating it or simply trashing it. Dealing with dishonest buyers
and everyone siding with them by default is just not worth the hassle.

------
akurilin
Startup idea: create a high quality camera gear buying and selling experience
for the web, with many protections and conveniences built in. Selling your
gear on Craigslist and meeting with random strangers at McDonald's and
Starbucks is pretty much the only real alternative right now and gets old
pretty fast.

This was an issue for music gear too, but somehow reverb.com managed to
address it and make it a pretty painless experience. Their customer service is
excellent, and if one of the two parties are unsatisfied, they'll intervene
and try to find a compromise. They send you boxes to ship your gear in, they
set up shipping for you, they automatically track the shipment as it gets
picked up etc. I've been hoping to find something similar for camera gear, but
have had no luck so far.

The only downside is that the prosumer camera equipment world seems to be
rapidly shrinking, so it might be not a great idea to step into this space
right now. Whereas there doesn't seem to be a dearth of people buying guitars,
drum kit pieces and effects pedals.

~~~
y2bd
Keh ([https://www.keh.com/](https://www.keh.com/)) is sort of like this,
except that they function more like a second-hand shop--you sell them your
gear, and they hold inventory that other people can buy, meaning you never
actually interact with the eventual buyer. Because of this though, I imagine
they take a larger cut than Reverb does (and certainly more than eBay).

As a buyer I've had zero problems with Keh the couple of times I've used them.

~~~
akurilin
I've gotten quotes through a few of these sites in the past, and I was getting
at best 50-70% of the value I would have gotten by selling in person through
CL. I imagine it's in part because you ship it over to them, they have to
inspect the items etc.

I think those services can be useful for buyers, but sellers who want to get
the most for their gear will avoid them. Like you said, something like Reverb
could compete on taking a smaller cut.

~~~
mcyukon
Yeah its a good concept and I would love an easy, secure way to sell items
however they are quoting $965 USD for my Nikon Z6 which is out-of box new and
retails for $1,996.95 USD. That's pretty hard to swallow. For that I'll put in
the time to sell it locally, meet and try in person, cash only.

------
abbot2
I totally get the frustration and such, and not trying to protect Amazon, but:
author's web site intercepting browser history to trigger "checkout this
content before you leave" when back navigation is clicked is outright evil.
Just don't do that, be kind to visitors.

Edit:

1\. Dictionary: evil, adj.: morally bad, cruel, or very unpleasant

2\. To get the prompt you need to stay around on the page for a while, scroll
around, pretend to read it. Triggers at least in mobile chrome browser.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
I did not get that prompt. I even tried disabling my ad blocker and did not
get that prompt.

EDIT: Also, I think "outright evil" is a bit strong. A dark pattern for sure,
but not quite evil.

~~~
abbot2
Try staying on the page for a while and scroll around. Pretend to read it.
Triggers for me on mobile chrome browser.

------
TravelTechGuy
Sad story, though not uncommon. I heard many eBay horror stories involving
buyers' scams.

Frankly, selling anything on Amazon is crazy. But if you do have to, vet your
buyer. Look at their previous purchases and feedbacks. Avoid the quick deal
that will blow in your face.

The bottom line is that eBay (and Amazon too) are more focused on the buyers.
Buying on eBay is great, because you have 100% buyer protection. There's no
seller protection at all.

I'd recommend sticking to either local selling apps (like Craigslist etc.)
where you can verify the buyer (though stay safe and do it somewhere public),
or through online communities that manage access and feedbacks (there are
several on Reddit and Facebook).

~~~
city41
I was surprised the article mentioned eBay as a better alternative as a
seller. It really isn’t, eBay will side with the buyer pretty much every time.

------
tus88
There is no perfect system that protects buyers and sellers. Change the rules
and buyers will be complaining. The reason it is skewed towards buyers is:

1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no
protection (sellers aren't the same as they _have_ to sell somewhere to make a
living).

2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a
buyer is a lot more work as they need to resell the item to gain currency,
which is risky (both from exposing themselves to stolen item investigations as
well as being a victim of fraud themselves as a seller).

3) imagine if sellers could just ship rocks to buyers instead of cameras
without consequence. Every scammer and his dog would be in on the gig without
5 seconds. (1) becomes even more bleak.

The general view is sellers need to take fraud into their overall operating
expense budget, just like department stored do with shoplifting.

~~~
briandear
> The general view is sellers need to take fraud into their overall operating
> expense budget, just like department stored do with shoplifting.

How’s that work when selling a single item?

~~~
tus88
Well it becomes very difficult. Allowing sellers to cancel purchases from
buyers without a strong and long history of positive feedback is a start - I
believe eBay technically allows this.

But naturally sellers are then cutting down their potential buyer pool - it's
a dilemma they need to deal with.

Of course one easy way to do this is cut out the entire online buyer pool
altogether and sell your camera at a pawn shop - near-zero chance of fraud
there.

Why don't sellers just do this? Because they want more money than the pawn
shop is willing to offer, so they take the risk of selling online.

It's always important to remember what we are actually buying and selling a
lot of the time is risk - the value of the item is often just a fraction of
the overall purchase amount.

------
allovernow
Similar story on eBay. I shipped ≈10k worth of goods to a buyer. He tore a
hole in the box and claimed half of the contents were missing, _after signing
for the package_. Despite this eBay refunded his money and refused to listen
to our story until we took it to Twitter and pinged some high level manager.

------
heavyset_go
I'm getting ads that state if I buy the ad-purchaser's product on Amazon and
leave a good review, they'll refund my money. Basically, they're ads that say
"Free [Product]!" and when you click them, they ask you to purchase the
product, leave a positive review and then they'll refund you.

I tried to look for a way to report the seller to Amazon, but from what I
found, I need to have a seller account with Amazon to do so, which I don't. As
a customer, I can't report the product without buying it first. Does anyone
have a link or email I can use to reach out to someone at Amazon about this?

Some of these products have thousands of positive reviews[1]. I find it
misleading, and to be a nuisance to consumers who rely on these reviews to
guide their purchases. I don't know why Amazon makes it so difficult to report
these fraud schemes.

Since I found it difficult to reach out to Amazon, I reported the seller to my
state Attorney General's consumer protection division and to the FTC. Since
then, I've gotten even more ads like this, and I don't have the time to report
them all to agencies that may or may not follow up on my reports.

[1]
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NRGR9LL](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NRGR9LL)

~~~
RandomBacon
jeff@amazon.com

~~~
heavyset_go
Yeah, this is the email that a lot of the Quora-esque answers have. The
product I put in my OP is still up with the reviews, despite sending a message
containing the link + evidence to that address. I was hoping for a way to
reach out to a real human being, and it doesn't seem like that address is the
way to do it.

But thanks anyway.

------
freepor
Ultimately when you mail something there is no way to prove what you mailed.
You can mail a brick and say it was a camera or you can mail a camera and the
buyer can say it was a brick. There’s an opportunity here for companies with
big real estate footprints like UPS store or Office Depot to offer verified
shipping and/or receiving, where you hand them the items and they pack them up
and ship them with a certification of what’s inside.

~~~
onemoresoop
Good but not scam-proof, there can be a brick in a camera case in a box. The
verified shipping says camera in a box. I don't really mean brick here but the
item could be a defective item, a different model or something the
verification process could miss.

~~~
davchana
The UPS or something can take a photo of the product or item they received.
They are not verifying what's inside. They are just verifying the weight, a
photo from few angles, available only in case of dispute.

Seller can also do that, but a third party doing it with no horse in the race
can act like a notary. We are verifying what we saw. A camera box with X
pounds of weight.

If seller wants them to verify the inside contents, he needs to Show them the
inside contents. Then UPS will be confirming by photos that yes, an item with
this serial number is there inside and we packed it.

Its kind of slippery slope. What if its just a empty camera body? What is its
a junk camera? What if buyer says these above falsely?

------
BooneJS
I got ripped off on eBay where the fraudster kept my gas RC car and got the
refund. It was only $300, but I haven’t sold anything on the internet that I
wouldn’t be uncomfortable giving away since.

------
matsemann
Not the first time Amazon is on blast here for expensive camera gear scams: I
Fell Victim to a $1,500 Used Camera Lens Scam on Amazon [0]

[0]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14993216](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14993216)

~~~
CamelCaseName
Unfortunately, there are plenty of categories that are absolute breeding
grounds for scammers. Camera lenses is definitely one of them.

As a general rule, if the main differentiating feature of the product is hard
to verify, or if the product is expensive and easy to resell, stay away.

------
deadmetheny
Sounds about right. Amazon's return policies have always heavily favored
customers, even after creating the marketplace.

~~~
jacquesm
No, _especially_ after creating the marketplace. Before that Amazon would had
a much stronger incentive to treat the customers and themselves in a more
balanced way.

------
jseliger
I can't imagine buying or selling most high-value items on Amazon: the buying
side has already been covered in various places
([https://seliger.com/2017/01/09/tools-continued-careful-
buy-a...](https://seliger.com/2017/01/09/tools-continued-careful-buy-
amazon/)). I've sold cameras and lenses on Craigslist, which can have its own
challenges, but never one as expensive as an A7R IV.

~~~
koolba
At least on Craigslist you can restrict the sales to meatspace.

Asking to meet on the steps of a police station does a great job of filtering
out scammers.

~~~
Ididntdothis
And you can ask for cash. They can’t ask for a refund of that.

~~~
cortesoft
Sucks as a buyer though, if the item turns out to have issues (or it was
stolen).

------
hrdwdmrbl
Amazon is awful for sellers. Buyers can return items used, including underwear
and single-use items as well. There are no question asked. A person could live
their life buying toilet paper from Amazon, using it, and then literally
returning it and Amazon would never stop this behavior. The same goes with
clothing or anything else you can use within the return window provided by
Amazon.

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bitxbit
Paypal is not a good solution for secondary markets. I wish someone would
start a payment company specifically focused on P2P where you can have escrows
and third-party reviews for expensive items. Instead of sending your item
directly to a buyer, you send it to a third-party who then signs off on it. I
am sure people will gladly pay 5% fee to get that peace of mind.

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durpleDrank
Amazon FBA is a joke. I tried it for a year. Experienced a couple of instances
like OP. Customer service at Amazon is an ineffective joke when it comes to
these matters as well. Fees are too high etc. Believe the hype of YouTube
"entrepreneurs" at your own peril.

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onetimemanytime
Bottom line: the buyer can claim that a lot of things are missing, item is
broken, scratched etc and since there's no definite proof (for example: you
can video...but then remove items before shipping) Amazon has chosen to trust
the buyers. As others pointed out an outside party might be needed to keep
both sides honest, but otherwise Amazon has to trust one side...

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ornornor
> Investigate more even-handed selling services, like eBay, Fred Miranda, or
> other online retailers.

I do t know what Fred Miranda is, but eBay will also always side with the
buyer.

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themagician
Funny that everyone assumes the buyer is the thief.

I’ve had FedEx steak from me twice. Caught both times, but only because I
really pressed the issue.

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tolidano
Step 1: only sell the body, a single item. Keep the rest.

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neycoda
Wow, looks like a great way to get free stuff on Amazon!

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Schnitz
Amazon is as fraud ridden as eBay at this point.

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hartator
Well his blog hijacked my browser history. Injecting the homepage of his blog.
Which is not appreciable.

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malka
> 2020 > trust Amazon

?????

