
Ask HN: One of my coworkers accused me of sexism, should I tell HR? - deep_concern
The other day my team was doing a small release. A female coworker, let&#x27;s call her Sarah, reviewed and approved my PR for it. After deploying, someone else noticed some minor issues, and we decided to fix them. Sarah walked over and asked what&#x27;s up so I told her.
She realized a particular story was included in the release and was annoyed that I didn&#x27;t &quot;inform&quot; her of it and implied I was sloppy. 
Surprised, I said I thought we were all on the same page and that now wasn&#x27;t a good time because I was fixing stuff. She continued. I said I understood, but &quot;you don&#x27;t need to lecture me on this right now&quot;, and we could discuss afterwards.<p>The next day Sarah and I discuss. I pull up the PR and point out how obvious the story was. The discussion became increasingly heated and she said I had an attitude problem, and said my remark was &quot;demeaning to say to a woman&quot;, and it&#x27;s already bad enough in tech.
This set off alarms to me. I immediately denied it having anything to do with her gender, or anything about her except the way she was acting, and to please not imply that I&#x27;m sexist or I&#x27;d have to walk away. She sort of backtracked, but it was already out there.<p>I admit I used a poor choice of words, but I don&#x27;t believe I am sexist, nor do I have a history of making sexual remarks or advances on women.<p>Now I&#x27;m concerned she might tell HR or my manager and I don&#x27;t want to be on the defensive. I&#x27;m afraid this could ruin my career. It&#x27;s worth noting that she&#x27;s a physical person and pats or hits me on the arm frequently in jest (I don&#x27;t reciprocate), and has made a few sexual jokes privately, which I didn&#x27;t think were a big deal at the time but now I&#x27;m rethinking it.<p>I&#x27;m not even sure WHAT I should tell HR, if anything at all.
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Jemaclus
I would not say anything at all. I would keep all interactions with Sarah as
professional as possible, including not reciprocating physical contact or
jokes. I would also keep a log of any times she engages in physical contact or
inappropriate jokes, and document any interaction in which you felt
uncomfortable or were accosted by her. Accusing you of sexual harassment is a
non-starter, and that should immediately terminate any friendship you may have
between each other. Friends don't accuse each other of creating hostile work
environments. Sarah might let it slide this time, but next time you say
something she deems inappropriate, you might be having a meeting with HR about
"repeated patterns of sexism" or something.

Like others have posted, HR is not your friend. Do not voluntarily talk to
them unless they have specific questions or concerns to ask you. If they do
that, what you want is to have a strong enough paper trail that any complaints
Sarah brings against you are properly rebutted.

One thing I would not do right now is apologize. An apology can be seen as a
confession. You want to do what you said you did: assert your innocence in the
matter, ask for a retraction, and walk away if none is given.

I have other thoughts on this (e.g., start looking for a new job), which I'd
be happy to expand upon if you want, but I think the safest thing for you to
do right now is just cease any non-professional contact and document the crap
out of everything she says or does to use in case of an inquiry.

Good luck.

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osullivj
HR are not your friends. The clue is in the name: human resources. You are
just a resource to be managed. And managed out if you become a problem. HR's
main function is reducing legal exposure risk due to harassment lawsuits etc.
That, and removing human resources that have become a liability. IMHO you
should write up a set of notes on the jokes and physical behavior, and
anything else that you can think of that will make HR think that firing you
will cause them more legal grief than keeping you on.

~~~
mattbgates
HR, bosses, co-workers are not friends .... when it comes down to it: they
will save their own asses over yours, no matter what. I had run into a bunch
of problems at work.. when other people joked, it was fine, but when I'd
joke.. very similar to everyone else.. nothing that was sexual or would be
deemed inappropriate, yet it somehow turned into a big deal always. It got so
bad that I was called into a meeting by my supervisor and boss and I almost
got fired.

So I pretty much stopped joking around, stopped joking with everyone, no
longer trust anyone, and now I just show up to work, put on my headphones, do
my job, and go home when my shift is done. At company parties, I go for the
free food, talk to whoever talks to me, and then I leave. It's safer this way.
I'm not sure what it is about me, but I feel I was targeted. So they've shaped
me into exactly what they wanted me to be: a coding machine who does his job
without question, without emotion, and that's pretty much it.

Fortunately, I did fine one or two people at work that I can joke with in
private messages, so that keeps me somewhat sane.

~~~
corporateslave3
This is how you never move up to high paid positions. You need to develop
relationships with people across the business to do well.

~~~
mattbgates
Nice name LOL.

Good advice... but I've accepted that where I work, I'll never move up in
higher paid or any company positions. Like I said, I was targeted and they
were trying to get rid of me for a long time.

I've already been passed over for promotions and my fate was already sealed...
this was very clear to me when I was going through my ordeal for months.
Several female co-workers noticed what was going on, actually stepped in, and
defended me, until finally the bosses and supervisors left me alone. These
female co-workers are now in senior positions and I'm happy for them as I feel
it was well deserved. It sucks that these women had to protect me, but even
when I stood up for myself, it is probably what nearly got me fired.

Don't get me wrong, I love my job, I love what I do and I'm not miserable
where I work, but I've tried to make relationships happen, but the damage is
done, and so is my branding. While I've been able to repair some of the
damage, it can never fully be mended. I do get my daily raises and bonuses per
company standards, but anything besides that will probably never happen.

While I've accepted what is, I'm not just someone who accepts the fate of
such, and I've started up a few side businesses that have helped compensate me
for what I will never "make at work". I see it as my opportunity to make more
money. Eventually, I hope that my main job will be a secondary job for me.

------
uptownfunk
Don't say anything if you're a guy.. with all the pro-feminism talk these
days, especially post Damore-gate at Google, the tables could possibly be
turned on you. Document everything and keep it strictly professional, you
don't have much of a choice at this point.

~~~
romanovcode
Well, well, well, how the turn tables

But seriously I would start looking for a new job. Next thing you know you
will be accused of rape.

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Jugurtha
Maybe you truly weren't being sexist and you were so shocked as to create this
thread because it deeply wounded you. Then again, maybe you are sexist and
created this thread to have a trail that makes you appear distraught and
violated when this thing blows up and say "See! Would I be so vexed as to
create an HN thread if I were sexist!", playing the long con (it takes a
special kind of mind to think like that)..

Joking aside...

Have you read Robert Ringer's "Winning Through Intimidation"?

As the name doesn't imply, it's not about winning through intimidation, quite
the opposite, it's about how to detect attempts to intimidate, manipulate, and
take advantage of you, and what to do about it. It exposes some patterns many
abusers use (appeal to honesty, accusations to entice apologies and guilt,
etc).

The author talks about many instances where he got screwed and what he learned
from his master manipulators.

A good week-end read.

------
dudul
If you have a few witnesses of your interactions who can confirm that she
tried to play the sexism card while you were behaving perfectly appropriately
then yes you should mention it to HR to be proactive.

HR doesn't care about you or Sarah, they care about helping the company. If
you already have a "case" (ie witnesses) and approach them first, then they
will see you as the "safer" party to side with.

If you don't have anything solid to back your story, then it's a bit more
risky and it may be a better move to not do anything and hope that she won't
take any action.

In the future, you should definitely be very careful to properly document your
interactions with her though.

------
bartvk
> "you don't need to lecture me on this right now"

> discussion became increasingly heated

Are you sure you don't owe her an apology? I have the feeling she felt hurt
for some reason, and just wanted your understanding.

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NumberCruncher
[sexism on]

>> she's a physical person and pats or hits me on the arm frequently in jest
(I don't reciprocate), and has made a few sexual jokes privately

Is she physical and makes sexual jokes to her other co-workers too or only to
you? In the latter case

>> [she] said my remark was "demeaning to say to a woman"

reads like "I want you to recognise me as a woman you dumbass". It's a "women
say something and mean the opposit" thing.

[sexism off]

Anyhow, listen to the advice of Jemaclus and don't fuck the company!

------
borplk
Don't talk to HR.

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twobyfour
This is a tough situation, and the dialog about gender in the tech scene this
summer has only made such situations more fraught and adversarial than they
might otherwise be.

Remember that just as many thoughtful and considerate men are frustrated
because they feel like they're being tarred with the same brush as VCs who
abused their power to get away with sexual assault, many women are feeling
like they're being told they don't belong in the jobs they've been doing well
for years, like their complaints that they have to struggle daily against
subconscious bias are being dismissed without even being considered, and like
if they want to even pursue their careers they're expected to accept
everything from subtle disrespect to outright abuse.

You have a choice to make, and your choice will contribute in a small way to
whether the conflict - in your company and in the industry - escalates or de-
escalates.

The approach I would suggest depends on several factors:

1) prior to this incident, did you have a good, friendly professional
relationship with Sarah?

2) prior to this incident, has Sarah demonstrated a tendency to take
professional critique or social/political commentary personally, or does she
usually take things in good faith (even if she presents counter-arguments)?

3) do you want to approach this issue in a way that's adversarial, or do you
want to repair and possibly further your working relationship with Sarah?

If your answers are 1) "yes", 2) "good faith", and 3) "repair", then I would
approach it as follows:

First, ask Sarah if she'd be willing to talk over lunch or coffee or even just
to take a walk outside. This sort of discussion is best had in a setting
that's public but allows for private conversation and is less formal than the
office but is not easily mistaken for a romantic overture.

Tell Sarah that you're sorry that you said something that came across to her
as sexist. Without trying to justify anything you said, tell her that a) you
didn't intend to say anything sexist; b) that although your initial reaction
was to be hurt that she would accuse you of sexism, you c) realize that you
may have said something that was hurtful to her without realizing why it would
be hurtful; and d) you would like to understand what it was about that
interaction that she felt was sexist, so that e) you can learn from this
experience and be better in the future.

If she's a decent human being and if you're willing to be sincere and more
importantly to really LISTEN, this is the sort of conversation you can learn a
lot from -- both about Sarah as a person, and about the sort of subtle
frictions and obstacles women face in the workplace on a daily and weekly
basis.

If you do this right, and if you mean it, Sarah will learn that you're someone
who means well and is willing to make an effort to be a good colleague to the
women in your office. The next time you say something that perhaps could be
taken the wrong way, she'll be more likely to give you the benefit of the
doubt and instead of accusing you of sexism, merely point out that what you
said might not have come across the way you intended.

You'll get to understand that she reacted the way she did not because she's an
unreasonable person looking for excuses to fly off the handle at her
colleagues and get them in trouble, but (probably) because she had a real
reason to interpret a situation differently than you did, even if she was
having a bad day and didn't handle the situation as well as she could have.
You'll discover what it was that set her off in the first place; what the
(almost certainly not malicious) reasons were for her interpreting it the way
she did; and how to avoid repeating such an incident.

An open and honest discussion like this can add a great deal of strength and
trust to your working relationship, in both directions.

If you're not willing to be humble and to listen; or if Sarah is not a person
you're willing to trust, then I would do the following:

Document, document, document. Write down _your_ take on what happened. Put a
date on it. Do not turn it in to HR. If anything like this recurs, also
document it immediately. Then, if and when an accusation or confrontation does
occur that does get HR involved, you will be able to show them your side of
the story instead of just babbling that you didn't mean to offend anyone.

------
SirLJ
start looking for a new job, the PC crowd will get your head...

------
pottersbasilisk
Lawyer up asap. Hr will throw you under bus especially in she said he said
situation.

