
I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life - SmkyMt
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-made-my-son-cannabis-cookies-they-changed-his-life/2017/01/06/699b1d20-d1ef-11e6-a783-cd3fa950f2fd_story.html
======
patrickaljord
The war on drugs is probably one of the biggest crime against humanity since
WW2 with millions of deaths, millions in prisons, and trillions of dollars and
human resources wasted, mostly affecting the poor and minorities everywhere.
This needs to stop. Sadly, it looks like it will go on for a few more decades.

~~~
hasenj
Really? I have a very deep suspicion that drugs destroy society by making a
majority of people lethargic and unmotivated to do anything in real life.

A case could be made for exceptions here and there (like the child in this
article) but I don't think it works so well in society.

~~~
throwaway729
_> by making a majority of people lethargic and unmotivated to do anything in
real life._

Almost all of the drug users I know are highly motivated and very successful
people. Even if you include illegal drugs.

Perhaps this is just selection bias at work, but that knife cuts both ways.

~~~
vinay427
(Not the OP)

There isn't just the selection bias of people you tend to know potentially not
being representative of most drug users, but the need for comparing how those
same drug users would do without drugs (I'm not sure how this is possible to
evaluate). It isn't enough to say that some drug users are highly motivated
and successful, which I don't contest.

~~~
baddox
That would be an interesting study, but it's not relevant to the discussion of
the war on drugs. The comparison you'd need to make it how those people you
know would be doing if they were in prison for using illegal drugs. I'd wager
they'd be doing worse.

~~~
vinay427
I agree about that study being more relevant to the war on drugs, but my point
was simply in response to the anecdotal claim about the motivation and success
of drug users. If it were possible, it may provide more insight into how drugs
should be viewed in society, regardless of legality.

------
jimnotgym
Is the opposition to cannabis as a therapy at least part rooted in the fact it
is not patentable? Large Pharma can't make enough money from something people
could grow themselves?

A parallel story is the guy in the UK researching treating depression with
'magic mushrooms' in small doses (too little to be psychoactive). As I recall
it took him 10 years to get a license to do the study! These things grow in
your lawn in the UK! The results seemed good when compared to the poor
outcomes for people on _patentable_ anti-depressants

~~~
joatmon-snoo
> Is the opposition to cannabis as a therapy at least part rooted in the fact
> it is not patentable?

The IP is certainly fuzzy but that's no argument. If it can be commoditized
and involves some form of creative/innovative work, there's pretty much always
some way to create legal protection for it. Besides, just because there's
potential for competition doesn't mean that people won't try to enter the
market.

> Large Pharma can't make enough money from something people could grow
> themselves?

As the article itself explains, growing weed is _not_ simple. A sophisticated
operation requires a _lot_ of resources and dedicated man-hours.

The primary reason that no big, entrenched players are moving on it (or that
anyone who does it hasn't gotten too big) is that the fact remains that
marijuana is illegal. (This is true in a lot of countries, not just the U.S.,
but the rest of this comment is going to be U.S.-specific because I don't know
the situation in other countries nearly as well.)

No matter what the states say, federal law overrides state law, which means
that anyone that grows pot has huge legal exposure. There's also a secondary
problem: pot growers have a lot of trouble using the kinds of services that
are traditionally available to businesses, because B2B's (1) want clients that
are not at risk of getting shut down by a DEA investigation and (2) do not
want to expose their own businesses to legal risk, which they would be by
working with a pot-growing op.

There's a lot of stories about dispensaries in Colorado who are denied, for
example, _banking services_ , because of the litigation it would expose banks
to.

------
tunap
I spent the majority of 2012 in hospitals with two family members fighting
cancers. I had a lot of conversations with doctors/nurses and often enough MMJ
was discussed. "Off the record", of course. The general consensus was CBDs
have many apparent benefits, it was even posited they may inhibit malignant
cell formations(further study required). The consensus also was that the THC
race to get the most 'chronic' high from a strain is actually eroding the
medicinal benefits of MMJ by sacrificing the THC:CBD balance for the greater
psychoactive effects. This was a year or two before I saw the documentary on
these guys who go the other direction for a non-psychoactive strain( more
CBD,less THC).

[https://www.cwhemp.com/](https://www.cwhemp.com/)

~~~
tptacek
On the other hand, the strain mentioned in this article is famously high in
THC.

~~~
fourstar
Here are some strains that are high in CBD:

[https://leafist.com/news/2016/12/19/which-cannabis-
strains-h...](https://leafist.com/news/2016/12/19/which-cannabis-strains-have-
the-highest-cbd-percentages)

------
ra1n85
Wow. The title is click-baity, but the article does make me empathize with the
mother's position.

I remember being a young kid in school and seeing the few students that just
seemed so mentally imbalanced that they couldn't even exist comfortably, let
alone study. My school became a center for "emotionally disturbed" children
for the county. For the half-dozen of these students, they had 3 (very strong)
teachers.

When there's no respite for a condition that is potentially dangerous to your
child as well as others, what do you do? What happens when the medication
fails to work or has worse side affects? This sounds like desperation. I'd
have an open mind towards about anything if I were in this woman's position.

~~~
openforce
I believe it sounds like desperation because of the societal constructs that
make it a stigma to use this drug. If one looks at it from a purely medical
point of view, I don't see why this should be construed any different from any
current treatment that exists out there. As with most drugs - this would sound
true - "The benefits of this treatment outweigh the potential side effects".
For the woman's position, she has reached a point to see this truth clearly.

------
roystonvassey
In Singapore and a few other neighbouring SEA countries, there's a death
penalty for the possession of cannabis.

Possession. Death. Unbelievable.

~~~
ensiferum
AFAIK, In Singapore it's not for possession but for trafficing. The difference
being the amount you can have on your person. For possession you only face
(severe) prison time and trafficing is a mandatory death sentence.

~~~
roystonvassey
Well, that is true but would anyone really take that chance of trying to prove
it wasn't trafficking when their neck is on the line for a joint? I don't
think so. At least from what I've experienced in Singapore.

------
jimnotgym
How can a society that allows drinking alcohol and caffeine ban a plant you
can grow on your window cill?

How can a society that will give Ritalin to a child, dogmatically refuse to
give a child cannabis based therapy?

Why is the state so keen to _control_ cannabis? Is it simply that the state
associates it with hippies? Still? In 2017?

------
pizza
Currently trying some CBD oil with my moms. Prognosis: groovy. I spend less
time anxious, irritable, hyperactive, distant, incapable of eating. It's quite
nice. She likes it for going to sleep better and staying asleep longer, and I
suspect its helped decrease her allergy/inflammation symptoms that wake her up
in the middle of the night, coughing.

~~~
eli
I'm keeping an open mind, but these all sound like things a good placebo could
accomplish

~~~
pizza
I don't disagree.

~~~
jimnotgym
And without the hysteria about cannabis we might have more double blind
studies to find out.

------
ensiferum
The crimininalization of marijuana and classification as illicit substance is
such a tremendous stupidity.

~~~
SFJulie
Imagine I live in a country where discussing the law is illegal and can send
you to jail for years and worth 70000€ of fine. You can criticize any laws but
these one... like google did in order to avoid taxes.

Even if the constitution grant the right to discuss and modify the law... and
the country claims being the country of the Human Rights.

Vive la France. The country where some animals are more equal than others.

------
mcguire
" _We left Rhode Island [and moved to New York, where they cannot get medical
cannabis] with almost a liter of cannabis-infused oil, but, even though we
measure it out in drops, it won’t last forever. And because my son had to turn
in his medical-marijuana license when we moved, we can’t go back to get more._
"

I hate to point this out, but that one quote nullifies the rest of the
article. When they moved, they would have checked the school district. They
didn't check their son's medication?

Or is it the case that it's not as bad as it appears?

~~~
uiri
_I wanted to cry, thinking that I could buy bags of White Russian but I
wouldn’t be able to take them out of Colorado. If we bring our son’s marijuana
when we travel, we worry that we’re committing interstate drug trafficking._

Isn't moving the oil from Rhode Island to New York the same thing?

~~~
mcguire
I would assume so. And a liter?

------
mazlix
I'd advice caution on giving any developing brain cannabis.

Although it seems cannabis is fairly harmless in developed brains– there's
some evidence it can interfere with development.

~~~
tankenmate
Constantly banging your head off an iron bath also interferes with brain
development; this is a clear case of trade offs, not only medical but also
legal and social. I don't think any reasonable mother, probably including this
one, would suggest giving cannabis to an "average" child; but this is far from
an average situation and so in all likely hood will require a non average
treatment.

~~~
mazlix
That's totally true! In this case the child's brain isn't "healthy".

Hopefully this works for the child's benefit, and clearly it's a case of a
desperate parent grasping for anything that may help. However, it does sadly
have potential to do further harm as well.

------
linuxhansl
It is interesting how sledgehammers like Risperdal and friends are legal and
prescribed by doctors, while Cannabis is/was vilified for decades, in a
infantile and ineffective "war on drugs".

------
jameslk
Although the relief may be worth it, the drug is not without its potential
side effects over long-term use:

On short term memory:
[http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article...](http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-
abstract/2484906)

On dopamine levels:
[http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcolleg...](http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_1-7-2013-11-49-21)

and the development of brains in adolescents:
[http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyt.2013.00...](http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyt.2013.00053/full)

So the real question is whether it's worth the potential side effects? Perhaps
in this case, since it seems the parents have researched their options and
hopefully continue to research future options.

A cure should be counterbalanced with its negative side effects. That seems
obvious to say, but often I hear the misguided statement or see the attitude
that marijuana is not associated with any problems. Sure, it's not lethal and
shouldn't be Schedule I, but it's not something that should be taken lightly
as a long term treatment.

------
wolfspider
I find it strange in this story that anyone would suggest Risperdal for a
child. Risperdal is an antipsychotic which comes with long term neuroleptic
damage to the person taking it (flat affect, shuffles, etc..). I had a rather
unsuccessful time with Abilify which is prescribed to people with depression
but also comes with the same drawbacks. I somehow got a neuroleptic disease
from taking it called 'akinesia' which I can only describe as a living hell. I
promptly quit taking it and the disease ran its course. Psychiatry is in its
dark ages and in a lot of cases does more harm than good. The harm just can't
be immediately seen or measured and we tend to write the patients off as
hyperbolic.

------
shoefly
A great article. There is one thing the author got wrong. Pot IS addictive. My
brother can't go more than 3 hours w/o smoking it. If he does, he starts to
sweat like crazy. He once went an entire weekend without it and he had a very
rough time.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
Pot isn't physically addictive, though. Those things are his brain causing the
symptoms.

Seriously. I've smoked heavily for years, with sudden breaks, and at most I
get a couple days of off appetite and bad sleep. No big deal.

I've met exactly one person that had withdrawals from pot: In his case, he was
self-medicating with it. It wasn't that he got withdrawals from pot, but that
mental illness simply reared its head more when he stopped.

~~~
random_upvoter
TBH I never understood this "it's not physical" subtlety. Last time I checked,
the brain was a physical entity with physical processes running around in it.

If it looks like addiction, walks like addiction and quacks like addiction,
then it is addiction. And it exists in marijuana users.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
The difference is in the way the body acts - and the treatment is completely
different for the two. I'm not a doctor, so do a bad job of explaining the
difference between the two, but the general gist is that with physical
addiction, your body needs the drug to function correctly.

People who want to live die from physical detox.

It isn't that psycological addiction doesn't have physical symptoms: Indeed,
many psychological problems have them - anxiety and an upset stomach,
depression and aches. Not to mention panic attacks. But the treatment isn't
the same at all. You don't actually have to wean someone off of something
psychologically addictive - that's why folks aren't weaned off of gambling,
for example. And they won't die if they don't have it (suicidal is a different
issue).

Pot generally has mild withdrawal symptoms. I'm pretty sure a few get in a bad
situation with it - just like folks do with anything else - but underlying
psychological problems kind of mess that stuff up.

Yeah, the sweating? Could be anxiety as well, for example. And to the
layperson, it would seem like withdrawal symptoms instead of the anxiety
coming back. Before his diagnosis, my ex would use about anything to get the
voices inside his head to shut up. Friend of mine? Had a lot of trouble not
smoking, but also was a bit... off. Brain damage from a car accident + a few
psychological issues to boot. In all my years, I've never seen this sort of
stuff from a reasonably balanced person.

------
exDM69
I can't believe no-one in the comments here or the original article suggest
growing their own. It takes 10 square feet of space, about $500 one-time
investment, a day or two to build and about an hour per week of maintenance.
It can be done safely, discreetly and odor-free.

Sure, it would be illegal, but the chances of getting caught are pretty
miniscule. Although I don't know how severe penalties are in place where the
author lives or are there any secondary repercussions that make it not
feasible (such as children taken into custody if caught).

~~~
op00to
I believe everything except odor free. Got a link to evidence?

~~~
exDM69
No, I have not (only anecdotal evidence) but getting odor free is a matter of
getting an active carbon filter (big enough, 3-10 kg) and a good ventilation
system (required for cooling anyway). This ensures that the grow space is
slightly underpressurized and all the exhaust air is odorless. Without these
measures, it will stink.

It needs a bit of investment and some time to get the build right, but it can
be done.

------
sakabaro
Allowing MJ with other drugs is a no brainer. I also very glad the author
found a way to help his son and it should be let alone. However, saying things
like that is not very responsible:

> But Lester Grinspoon, a psychiatrist and professor at Harvard Medical School
> who has been researching cannabis since the 1960s, reassured me that the
> worst we could do was make our son fall asleep.

One study had shown that even if there is no long term effect on adults on IQ,
teenagers experience on average 10% less IQ than no consumers - even after
stopped completely taken it for years. Another study has shown that if you are
DNA predisposed - less than 3% of the population - MJ can induce schizophrenia
reshaping the brain long term even after years after taking it. I don't fully
get this is not common knowledge. Maybe, this is not hype enough and people
want to not being perceived as reactionary. But, facts are facts.

------
smoyer
Without getting into the debate about the recreational use of marijuana ...
we've classified it as a drug so I don't see a reason we can't agree that
there might be some legitimate uses for it.

~~~
throwaway729
It's classified as schedule 1. A criteria of schedule 1 classification is "The
drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in
the United States"

So, at least the folks who wrote down those schedules disagree that Marijuana
has legitimate uses.

Note that "accepted" here basically means whatever the person in power wants
it to mean. There's absolutely no criteria that "accepted medical use"
corresponds to doctors' opinions on the matter.

------
legulere
I think this article is irresponsible. Cannabis might cause permanent damage
to cognitive functions in the developing brain:
[http://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/11/marijuana-
brain.aspx](http://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/11/marijuana-brain.aspx)

~~~
jimnotgym
Fits of rage 300 times a day, and constant pain might cause permanent damage
to cognitive functions in the developing brain.

Conventional medicine has no treatment available. What would you do?

------
tempcrap
So, it works like medicine for some cases, and you say now everyone grow in
their backyards? Doesn't make sense, though I'm not against it.

------
gragas
I'm for the legalization of marijuana, but I really hate the arguments these
articles present in favor of it; I'm sure your raging 9-year-old kid would
chill out on a strong dose of heroin, too. We should not falsely elevate
marijuana as some wonder drug. Surely, there's a better argument that can be
presented for legalization?

~~~
thesmallestcat
This article is propaganda. It doesn't contain any interesting data, just a
rehash of the policy landscape and a single, heart string-tugging anecdote.

~~~
jptman
Unfortunately, it's the heart string-tugging anecdotes that make policies
happen in the US, not data.

~~~
tunap
After 80 years of ignoring the data, I do not know how else one would effect
change other than employing the same tactics. Empirical data is available,
anecdotal data is available, historical harm has accrued for non-violent
"offenders". The rarely spoken facets of the hemp plant's superiority to pulp
derived paper and cotton fabrics have been ignored for almost a century.
Before "reefer madness" was invented, the aforementioned products couldn't
compete, hemp was common and priduced superior products. The reasons for
demonizing _hemp_ , not marijuana, were economic forces and lobbyists pushing
their agendas at any cost.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#The_campaig...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#The_campaign_against_marijuana_1930.E2.80.931937)

------
kahrkunne
You know, I'm not at all opposed to weed (I smoke weed myself on occasion) but
I don't think we should encourage experimenting with drugs on 9 year old kids
by people who are not medical professionals...

~~~
phreack
Article says it was a last resort option suggested and approved by medical
professionals.

------
factorialboy
So the child had temper tantrums and the parents drugged him? Wait what? I
hope I am mistaken.

~~~
pharrington
You're getting downvoted because you didn't read the article.

------
loblollyboy
I was a little brat as well. Lot's of tantrums. My parents punished me
(probably not enough). My grandma once said: "how old are you?" This works.

Nobody ever gave me drugs. I don't think it is ideal to give kids weed (I'm an
adult who can barely handle weed). It is linked with psychiatric problems.
That's not anti-drug propaganda, that's a fact. All that said, I don't think
this is any worse than giving a kid ritalin.

~~~
adrice727
Did you also undergo multiple surgeries on your spinal cord as an infant, have
a chronic pain condition and severe autism like the child in the article?

~~~
loblollyboy
No, and in fact I did not really read the article. Point taken.

------
thesmallestcat
> Then, a couple of years later, the medication stopped working. And his
> aggressions exploded.

> Once, when my son was late getting his cannabis oil after school, he put his
> head through a window and cut his face in a frenzy of pain. We gave him his
> medication, and he calmed down enough that we could bring him to the ER.

Any reason to believe history won't repeat itself here?

~~~
unethical_ban
Different medicine with completely different bodily interactions. Different
age of the child.

Any reason to believe it will, other than it being a cliche?

~~~
thesmallestcat
I used medical marijuana _heavily_ for many, many years. Tolerance builds and
it ain't the same, trust me. There, now we have an anecdote against the one in
the story. See where this sort of journalism gets us? At some point there are
demons you have to tackle head-on, or cope with otherwise. Anecdotally, for
me, cannabis was a quick fix and a mistake.

~~~
mistermann
How much research have you done into the science involved here, do you have a
strong understanding of the fundamentals?

------
gravypod
If you're ok with this, ask yourself if you'd be ok wih a parent giving a kid
bourbon to put it asleep. This used to be a common household trick before
people decided it was probably not a good idea.

Granted I think the war on drugs is stupid but I also think a failed parent
shouldn't be the one championing the anti-war-on-drugs movement as that's only
going to give the opposition ammunition.

I'm also not a developmental psychologist or a medical professional but I
don't think this is the best thing for a young developing mind. I'm probably
wrong because I've done limited reading on it but giving a young kid any drugs
that haven't been exceedingly studied by the medical community doesn't sound
like a smart idea.

Edit: I read the article a little further and I don't think the parent is
"failed" anymore. It's sad that the kid had such an already tramatic
upbringing and I understand why you'd do this but I don't think that it's the
best of ideas for most people alive.

~~~
throwaway729
_> I'm also not a developmental psychologist or a medical professional but I
don't think this is the best thing for a young developing mind._

TBF the parents _did_ talk with a neurologist and medical experts at Brown,
which is hardly a backwater.

I understand what you're saying, but I also think that this is a _tough_
parenting decision that should be left to the parent and their family doctor.

Experimenting with dosage and type in a home pharma lab is pretty terrible.
The people refusing to reschedule marijuana despite widespread medical support
really are terribly evil for putting a parent in that situation...

~~~
gravypod
> Experimenting with dosage and type in a home pharma lab is pretty terrible.
> The people refusing to reschedule marijuana despite widespread medical
> support really are terribly evil for putting a parent in that situation...

I agree on all accounts.

> TBF the parents did talk with a neurologist and medical experts at Brown,
> which is hardly a backwater.

> I understand what you're saying, but I also think that this is a tough
> parenting decision that should be left to the parent and their family
> doctor.

I did see that and I didn't read that until after I wrote the post. I mainly
kept my post up in whole (despite my edit at the end) because I don't belive
in covering up my mistakes.

My position given the new information isn't exactly as hardline. I don't think
they are moraly or ethically at fault but I think their methods are very
flawed. Just trying random things at home isn't a good idea.

I'd rather have seen them contact, and I know this is going to sound really
stupid, but someone who is an expert at creation these confections. Going to
someone who works with canabis every day at a medical dispencary (or even
writing them and CCing your doctor who talked with you) would have probably
lead to better results. It's still very irresponcible to just mix and match
with a person's life.

I wouldn't want someone who couldn't consent entering drug trials so I
wouldn't want someone doing it to their kid. But then again it ended up going
well.... this time that is. If it happens again and someone mentally scars
their kid then I think people won't be too happy with it then.

All that being said (and I think this needs to be spelled out) I don't think
what I think should influence the parent in this case. I don't belive in
interference unless directly requested by an effected party. That's just
butting your nose into some place you don't belong.

------
exwebtina
I recall in 70s/80s Denmark and Netherlands made pot legal in parts of
Amsterdam and Copenhagen. The areas quickly turned into dumps. I'm fine with
Slab City but do we wan't this for all of US?

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
Amsterdam is very far from being a dump. Sure, the (very small) red light
district might not be the kind of place you take your mother-in-law, but
outside that it's a wonderful, picturesque, friendly, vibrant city.

~~~
sehr
Such a ridiculously gorgeous city. And besides, it's not even legal in
Amsterdam anyways...

------
DanBC
Mildly disturbed that she medicates him against his knowledge with something
that we think may be harmful for young brains (although we don't know, because
drug laws make research impossible).

We excuse this because she's in a desperate situation and there's a lack of
support. But other people in her situation resort to more harmful forms of
quackery.

The answer shouldn't be "quackery is fine so long as it doesn't result in
terrible harm", but "we as a society fail people with autism and learning
disability, and we need to do better".

~~~
jimnotgym
>against his knowledge

He is a child, they are his parents. They have every right to choose his
treatment

>quackery

If medical science had an alternative you may have a point. These parents ran
out of options

~~~
DanBC
No, parents don't have the right to do what they like to their children.

> If medical science had an alternative you may have a point. These parents
> ran out of options

Exactly the point I made above. Lack of options does not mean parents can just
try anything else. Some parents with no options chose bleach to treat autism.
[http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-
families/...](http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-
families/health-news/autism-potentially-lethal-bleach-cure-feared-to-have-
spread-to-britain-a6744291.html)

This mother has no idea what harm might come to the child as a result of her
experimental treatment. If she's doing it to herself that's one thing, but
she's inflicting it on a child.

~~~
jimnotgym
That is not what I said, I said _choose treatment_ not experiment. The mother
states that she consulted with various medical professionals in the article.
Once you have consulted you have the right to choose treatment.

The article says She consulted with people specifically about the risks
involved and was advised they were extremely low. How is that equivalent in
any way to experimenting on children????

