
Monkey the Cat Hunts for Dinner - benjaminfox
http://benjaminmillam.com/cat-geek/monkey-the-cat-hunts-for-dinner/
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ggambetta
There's a small typo in the title of that article, it should read _Urban cat
makes human slave build contraption so he can play hunter whenever he wants
and then have some food_

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delinka
You remind me of this: "What if we are all just pawns in corn’s clever
strategy game, the ultimate prize of which is world domination?" \--Michael
Pollan in
[http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pollan_gives_a_plant_s_eye_...](http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pollan_gives_a_plant_s_eye_view?language=en)

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rogeryu
But Don't Shoot the Dog! ;-)

[http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog-Teaching-
Training/dp/05...](http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog-Teaching-
Training/dp/0553380397)

This is actually a very fun read about conditioning - no matter if you have a
cat or dog. I've read it quite a while ago, and I remember that conditioning
cats is not that difficult, as long as you stick to positive rewards.
Punishment doesn't work.

For those who think this will be abused for manupilating people - that's what
we do all day no matter if we read this book or not. It's just the way you do
it, and that probably won't change by reading this book. It will teach you a
lot about your own behavior.

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mrbig4545
I've taken a chance and decided to trust you. So I've ordered this book, don't
let me down random internet stranger!

~~~
rickdale
Book recommendations from random hn users has changed my life. 4 hour body in
particular.

For dog training I really like Michael Ellis from Leerburg.com. His free
videos are really all you need, some of the paid dvds can be repetitive, but
ultimately he keeps up with the latest trends and I think is amazing with
dogs. Everyone has their own theory it seems though..

~~~
noskynethere
Would you recommend 4 hour body to someone who is generally put off by
Ferriss' writing style and ego-centricity?

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acqq
I've never read the book but searched for it on Amazon, "8,283 of 8,919 people
found the following review helpful":

[http://www.amazon.com/review/RKBQAAIIRUO5X/ref=cm_cr_dp_titl...](http://www.amazon.com/review/RKBQAAIIRUO5X/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=030746363X&channel=detail-
glance&nodeID=283155&store=books)

"(1) It takes more than 4 hours a month in the gym to have a great body. I'm
sorry, it just does. Mr. Ferriss recommends performing 2-3 SETS, for a total
of less than 30 reps, per WEEK, to get a great body. Ask any athlete,
bodybuilder, trainer... not enough. Not even close."

"(2) Almost all the supplements recommended in 4HB have never been
scientifically proven to do what Mr. Ferriss claims they do."

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ulisesrmzroche
The first review is pretty terrible though. You don't need exercise to have a
"great" body. Abs are made in the kitchen. It literally requires 0 hours at
the gym to get to 10-15% body fat. Exercise helps burn more calories but it's
still about consume less than you burn.

The reason why four hour body and other related diets work is mainly because
proteins and fats are more filling than carbs and not as calorically dense so
you throw yourself into a caloric deficit.

The rep argument is a red herring. Doing 40 reps on a 10 pound dumbbell is
insignificant. Doing 10 reps on a 40lb weight is a workout all on its own.

Supplements like fish oil work great!

I read the book and I recommend it! It's like a good basics guide. If you want
to learn more it get under 10 percent body fat you may want to read into the
topic further (read into ketosis) but just as a

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teddyh
This is awesome, but the training schedule seems overly complicated. One would
think it would be easier to have the balls initially positioned so that they
fall into the feeding mechanism at the touch of a feather; probably at a place
where food used to be served, so the cats are likely to be there and search
for food. A cat should be able to figure out the procedure after knocking the
balls in accidentally a few times. After this, it would just be a matter of
moving the balls gradually further and further away from the feeding apparatus
over time.

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INTPenis
Or just cover the balls in catnip at first to make the cat take an interest in
them and realize what they're for.

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gwern
That wouldn't work on the quarter or so of cats who are immune.

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hoopism
This is super awesome.

About 5 years ago I built my own SSHable/Camera cat treat dispenser. We'd dump
food on my cats head from work and laugh... it wasn't nearly as kind to the
cat as this is.

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soggypretzels
Using RFID to detect the presence of the balls feels like overkill. Why not a
light sensor, or a hair trigger switch out of reach of the cat. Sure The cat
can now be fed by finding random objects, but maybe the training of using the
ball will stop the cat from figuring that out.

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schoen
Did anyone notice that the batteries powering the device are "9 Lives" brand?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eveready_Battery_Company#/medi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eveready_Battery_Company#/media/File:Eveready_9_lives_Super_Heavy_Duty_D_cell.JPG)

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scoot
(Unintentionally) misleading title. This is not about a monkey being hunted by
a cat...

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mst
Confusing for a moment, sure, but not really misleading - 'The Monkey the Cat
Hunts for Dinner' would've been that, without the leading 'the' the sensible
expectation is that it's a cat name.

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apalmer
hmmm wonder if this actually is beneficial to the cat in any way? The theory
is the cat is more 'actualized' because he is actually hunting his food. But
this doesn't smell, taste, or behave like food.

Generally in animals the 'reward' is triggered at a sensual level. Meaning
take sex, yes there is a sex drive and a very strong drive for
'actualization'. However if you remove the smell, taste, feel, visualization
but kept the 'mounting' behavior it probably wouldn't satisfy the drive, as
the satiation triggers are wired to the senses.

Basically, I think actually bother to hiding the food is going to satisfy the
cat on a far more deeper primal level than training him to redeem food tokens.
But maybe it will, interesting.

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cautious_int
I'm trying to think of a useful thing to teach a cat, using this technique,
that would be helpful at home.

~~~
morganvachon
Some people train their cats to use the toilet instead of a litter box, using
similar methods. Less mess and no litter to buy.

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dkersten
I considered doing this with my cat, but from reading up on it, it sounds like
its not less mess because cats don't understand the concept of aiming into the
toilet... Maybe it depends on the size of the cat though?

I'm going to try teach my cat to fetch using clicker training. When she was a
kitten, she used to fetch things I threw and then drop them at my feet.

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eternalban
I have strays from backyard that get to stay in when it is very nasty out.
There guys are not trained but uncannily each has managed to somehow id the
bathtub as the 'emergency place'.

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morganvachon
Every cat I've ever had has been like this; if their litter box is full or for
some other reason they don't want to use it, it's always the tub. I think it
has something to do with the relative privacy the high bathtub walls afford
them.

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dkersten
I've seen cats use the shower too.

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evo_9
Fun read but I'm really against keeping a cat inside all day, for most of its
life.

Granted you may not have a choice, depending on your location. But generally I
think more effort should be placed on slowly getting a kitten acclimated to
the outside world than something like this. I've done it with all my cats,
basically starting to let them outside around the time they are neutered.

The kitten will naturally take a very cautious approach as they slowly explore
their environment. It's actually fascinating to watch as they slowly gain more
confidence and move farther into the brush and edges of your yard/property
(provided you have the space). Eventually getting into tree's and exploring up
as well as out.

They are happier, they are healthier and they live longer. My first cat that I
raised this way lived until 18.

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dragonwriter
> and they live longer.

Every source I can find indicates that, on average, strictly indoor cats live
much longer than indoor/outdoor cats who in turn live much longer than
strictly outdoor cats.

(My own experience aligns with this and further with the there being a much
wider distribution in lifespans as you go further down the strictly indoor to
strictly outdoor continuum.)

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slayed0
Do these sources include premature end of life from accident/injury/predation?
It seems, at least intuitively, that these factors would significantly drag
down life expectancy for outdoor cats. However, I think it would be useful to
see the estimates with these factors excluded (noted of course) to just
compare life expectancy assuming death from natural causes.

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simcop2387
I don't know of any sources, but wouldn't injury and predation actually be
natural causes for these outdoor cats? Saying that they shouldn't be counted
because they "weren't natural" sounds a lot like the No True Scotsman fallacy.
We don't tend to consider predation and injury as natural causes in humans
mostly because we consider ourselves the apex predator so there's nothing
seriously that can prey on us. And injuries in humans are typically caused by
accidents and not our natural state; in a cat however they can get injured by
the prey they're hunting or the environment without it necessarily being an
accident which I would consider a natural cause.

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Serow225
That is one hard-to-parse title! :)

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goblin89
‘Prey balls’ with cat detection and evasion capabilities seem like a potential
development of the idea, if it weren’t so technically challenging.

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Akkuma
I think this has already been accomplished by
[http://getshru.com/](http://getshru.com/)

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muP
I thought the article would be about a monkey hunted by a cat for dinner.

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Serow225
That is one hard-to-parse title!

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nkrisc
I was expecting to read about the unfortunate monkey some feline dined on.

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norea-armozel
My cat would just poop in my shoe if I tried to make her do anything. LOL

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dominotw
don't feed kibble to your cat please.

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xsmasher
I've heard both "don't use dry food, it causes issues" AND "don't use wet
food, it causes issues" so... You're going to have to provide some citation
for your opinion.

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Nadya
Wet food causes dental issues but isn't a problem with regular checkups unless
your vet prescribes dry food to a cat especially prone to dental issues caused
by wet food.

Dry food is tied to obesity due to being higher in carbs, and obesity ->
higher chance of diabetes.

As for nutrition - high end dry food will always be better than cheap wet food
but overall, from what I've gathered from many vets, is that wet food is
better.

So I can see the argument for "wet food is taking better care of your cat"
but, unless you notice your cat getting overweight, I don't think kibble could
be considered harmful.

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jusben1369
I thought the lack of any moisture in dry food can create other issues too?

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Nadya
Some studies cite that, although with small sample sizes (making the
difference between 11% and 39% only a factor of 8-12 cats).

The often cited danger is urinary obstructions and studies like [0] that show
wet canned food treats the condition. Another study [1] show it happens less
frequently with cats who eat wet food as opposed to dry food. So many people
make the conclusion that wet food prevents and treats a potentially fatal
condition, therefore wet > dry.

I don't find either study entirely convincing, most vets and studies don't
seem to cite dry food as the inherent problem, but rather free-eating cats,
overweight, and indoor-only (lack of exercise specifically). (No citations
this time, sorry. I don't keep all this stuff handy!)

When the studies themselves aren't blaming dry food (entirely) and vets don't
seem to overwhelmingly condemn the use of kibble, I don't see reason to do so
myself. I trust the studies and vets.

[0]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10023397](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10023397)

[1] Paywall, but I think this is the study.
[http://jfm.sagepub.com/content/suppl/2014/03/12/16.4.DC1/JFM...](http://jfm.sagepub.com/content/suppl/2014/03/12/16.4.DC1/JFM_16_4_US.pdf)

