
The iPhone dongle is still my fucking nightmare - NN88
https://theoutline.com/post/4745/apple-dongle-still-bad
======
carlivar
> Why don’t you get an Android phone, to which I reply: I’m not turning my
> texts green.

So the author is complaining about proprietary tech on his iPhone (Lightning
port analog audio adapter) when open alternatives exist (3.5mm jack), while
also claiming other proprietary tech (iMessage) in the face of open
alternatives (standard SMS) keeps him using the iPhone.

~~~
Kratisto
I understand the sacrifice though. I've always been an Android guy, but I'm
left out of a lot of group chats because of it. I play on multiple sports
teams where I'm the only one without an iPhone. They have a group chat for the
team, and I'm the only one left off. Same with just difference friend groups.
I try and get people to use whatsapp, hangouts, groupme, or just anything else
and no dice. I've considered switching to an iPhone just for social reasons,
but can't bring myself to do it.

~~~
sametmax
I have the same problem because I don't have a facebook account. I'm left out
of a lot of discussion and miss out on invitations because of it.

But if I really look back, I can't remember any of it. Nothing was actually
that important. It seems like it is on the moment, but the really important
stuff, people make the effort to reach out to me for it.

It's actually a good social filter.

~~~
Kratisto
That's fair. It's just annoying for things like a soccer team. If someone has
an update about game time or something, someone has to text me specifically.

------
birken
I was formerly a dongle-hater, having gone through at least 3 or 4 of them,
all of which broke under what I consider normal usage. I didn't realize you
could get them replaced for free either so I spend like $30-40 on them.

Then I finally gave in and got airpods, and now I see the light. Airpods are
just amazing. I was skeptical at first just like the author, but he is
fighting the wrong battle. Holding onto wired headphones and complaining about
the 3.5mm jack is completely missed out on how amazing wireless headphones are
(note: I have no idea if other wireless headphones are as good as airpods).

I can now be charging my phone and walk around my house listening to music. I
can seamlessly transition my headphones from my computer to my phone with one
click. When I'm working in the shop the cord so longer snags on things and
rips the headphones out of my ears. When I'm biking I can just wear one
headphone and leave the other one in my pocket instead of having the other
headphone dangling down. When running there is no cord bouncing around.

And airpods don't even fit my ears, I have to put a little silicone wrapper
around them every time I take them out of the charger and I still love them.

~~~
hbosch
And yet... imagine my abashment when I sit down for my 5 hour flight across
the country and suddenly realize the airplane TV's don't support bluetooth.

~~~
tcskeptic
I don't know which airline you were flying or which country you are flying
across, but in the US all the major carriers that I am aware of that have (or
had have, they are being phased out) seat-back video now have the ability to
stream to an app on your device. (Though most times I travel I take a pair of
Sony WH-1000 MX2s with me. Great noise cancelling, bluetooth or cable
attachment to standard ports, overall excellent, lousy touch controls)

~~~
cptskippy
Of the last 5 flights I took on Delta out of Hartsfield, zero had that
capability. The same goes for Southwest, Britsh Airways, Alitalia, Aerlingus
and United.

Oh and the Alitalia flight I was on just last Friday still had those dual mono
jack atrocities while the flight attendants only had those crappy stereo ear
buds. I think one guy on the whole flight had an adapter while the rest of us
got one channel of audio from a stereo signal for 8 hours. The meal was decent
though.

~~~
mackmgg
All of the recent Delta planes with WiFi support streaming to a phone with
their app, but some of the older planes still don’t. Southwest offers
entertainment exclusively through a phone though, they don’t have anywhere to
plug headphones into on any of their planes.

~~~
nathanaldensr
You should see the permissions the United app requests of you on Android.
(Hint: Nearly all of them)

------
sarreph
As I much as I am growing tired of HN discussions about Apple products
descending into a circle-jerk of "no more innovation" and "dongle-gate", I
must state my two gripes that I remain astounded by:

\- A new iPhone and a new MacBook — out of the box — have no way to physically
connect to each other.

\- A new iPhone comes with earphones that cannot be used with any other device
than other iPhones (e.g. not your new Mac).

Why have Apple's peripherals been broken for more than 2 years?

~~~
fetus8
I think this point is vastly understated.

Though it's rumored the 2018 iPhones will include a Lightning to USB-C Cable
in the box... [https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/02/iphone-x-2-fast-charging-
bund...](https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/02/iphone-x-2-fast-charging-bundled/)

------
martin1975
I despise the removal of the 3.5 mm jack to this day... and I still do not get
why Apple removed it. What exactly did it get in the way of and what was made
available by its removal? Worst move ever.

~~~
tunesmith
better water resistance? I've read that the 3.5 mm jack was the previous
limiting factor, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

~~~
Yetanfou
Highly inaccurate given the number of waterproof devices with headphone jacks.
$150 'airpods' should give a hint as to why they chose to remove the audio
jack.

------
taylodl
Hmmm. I'm still using the dongle that I bought two years ago - and I use it
every day. I don't even _have_ to use a dongle, my phone is an iPhone SE and
it has a 3.5 mm audio port. So why do I use the dongle? Because the rest of my
family has iPhones without the 3.5 mm audio port and so all our audio devices
utilizing a 3.5 mm audio jack all have dongles on them. So it's easier to use
the dongle rather than take it off and have to keep track of it.

I do use bluetooth headphones while working out and mowing the yard so I don't
have the continual distraction of the wire. Though they sound pretty good it's
a drag to have to keep them charged and they have a tendency to cut in and out
when working outside. So I'd say bluetooth isn't quite there yet.

------
orand
For those saying Bluetooth is the answer, that may be true for the vast
majority of users, but for musicians using iOS to make music, Bluetooth audio
latency is too high in many situations. Additionally, if you're connecting the
USB adapter (Camera Connection Kit) to plug in a MIDI keyboard and/or audio
interface, you'll need to pass those through a USB hub and add a USB DAC to
plug your wired headphones into.

~~~
Roboprog
Something the “just get an Android” crowd needs to understand - Android isn’t
good enough for making music. A $650 Pixel 2 lags behind a $160 iPhone SE in
terms of latency and drop-outs:
[http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/02/17/10-years-
later-...](http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/02/17/10-years-later-
android-audio-quality-still-lags/)

I wonder what the latency is on Bluetooth audio with Apple’s newer
peripherals? My experience using Bluetooth speakers at home was “not for
playing music” (on a keyboard).

At least my ‘SE still has a headphone jack, as does my iPad Mini 2. I usually
just use the headphone jack, even if there’s a little bit of noise bleeding
across it. OTOH, I do have a powered USB hub with a built in DAC in it, like
you mentioned, for plugging in multiple controllers.

Thanks for pointing out this latency issue. Hopefully Apple just might
reconsider the needs of a somewhat important customer subgroup. Cuz, musicians
are cool :-)

(And Apple is all about being “cool”, right?)

------
DoofusOfDeath
Do we really need this kind of language in the title?

It's the difference between me being willing to read this site in front of my
little kids vs. not.

~~~
iron0013
I agree, the word "dongle" is fucking scandalous.

------
peapicker
"Bluetooth audio is not that great" \-- that used to be true, but not anymore
with the modern editions of the standard and its implementations. I can't
really tell a difference anymore.

I also have >$100 bluetooth headphones, so that actually is one of the biggest
factors in sound quality and lack of cutting out -- the $20 ones off Amazon
etc sound not bad, have cutting out issues, etc.

~~~
mutagen
Do you or anyone here have suggestions on the happy versions of the standards
and protocols that result in 'can't really tell a difference'? I tried a few
years ago and my middle aged 14 kHz roll-off happy with v0 VBR mp3 ears could
tell a difference, I finally understood what people were talking about with
listening fatigue and the like. Now admittedly it's been a few a few years and
my car isn't likely to be able to negotiate a happy protocol but I'd love to
get a reasonably priced stereo bluetooth headset that sounded OK.

------
staunch
My guess is that most everyone at Apple has Airpods and that's why they think
it's an improvement worth pushing people towards.

I stuck with my wired earbuds for quite a while because I didn't imagine the
Airpods were much better than the various bluetooth options I had tried. It
turns out that they're _much_ better in terms of range, quality, battery life,
etc. They improve the experience of using an iPhone dramatically.

Apple should include Airpods with every new iPhone even it means raising the
price of the phone by $50-$100. It's the best improvement since high
resolution displays and making it non-standard means most people won't even
try it.

Going back to using a wired earbuds after using the Airpods is a stark
reminder of the many small annoyances, like untangling the cable, having the
earbuds yanked out of your ear when the cable gets caught, not being able to
leave your phone on your desk while you use the phone, etc.

I would never choose to go back to wired earbuds after using Airpods and I
expect most people would have the same experience.

------
yadakhov
Just like hoarding Macbook Pro 2015, I have a brand new iPhone 6S Plus with
headphone jack as a spare to my current iphone iPhone 6S Plus.

~~~
cm2187
Did exactly the same (6s #3 is waiting in storage). And preparing myself
psychologically to have to retrain my muscle memory when switching to android.
Samsung doesn't seem to have given up. The audio jack is just one of many
problems. A highly dysfunctional iTunes (critical to sync my mp3), constant
nagging for apple paid services, etc.

I have more of a problem with the ipad. If they also ditch the audio jack on
the ipad, I don't think there is a decent competitor to the ipad pro 10.5
(i.e. bigger, high refresh rate screen).

------
j45
The poor average battery life of in-ear headphones is a huge problem over
time.

It doesn't seem possible to be able to use wireless headphones long term, or
for long periods - battery life is simply too short for the amount we use
digital devices today.

5 hours of continuous use over time, is useless. 10-15 are likely a better
goal. I can't just wear in-ear headphones without thinking about having to
recharge my headphones. So I own 2 pairs. And then eventually forget to keep
them charged too.

I've used bluetooth headphones for about a decade before the first phones lost
their headphone jacks. The use case was convenience. Connecting to a laptop
and phone at the time with some compromises: battery life, and sound quality
(less so now). But, there was always a backup to a wired headset.

Maybe we'll start to see phone cases with a headphone jack, and a
lighting/usb-c case integrated into them. Or a way for bluetooth headphones to
wirelessly charge. I'd buy one.

~~~
Bud
You clearly haven't tried AirPods.

~~~
j45
Based on.. them falling out easily?

Battery life on them is 5 hours each.

They have a great experience when they have battery life. Just can't charge
them 2-3 times a day.

~~~
Bud
You clearly haven't used AirPods, as I said earlier to the other commenter.
They charge so quickly that if you remove them for 2-3 minutes for an
occasional commercial every few hours, they stay charged all day. They charge
_shockingly_ quickly. The only reason you would not know that is if, as I
said, you had not tried them. Everyone who tries them and uses them for
extended periods instantly discovers this.

~~~
j45
The thing with this comment is the assumption that there can be no valid use
case possible if you can't see or imagine it. Not sure if you see it. Since
you insist on beating the Airpod drum, let's unpack it.

The quick charge on Airpods is 15 minutes for 3 hours. My BeatsX are much
quicker and provide a longer use - 5 minutes of charging for 2 hours.

Still, Airpods only have 5 hours talk time, which guarantees and require a
recharge for 15 minute in the middle of each day - that doesn't work for many.
I regularly end up on 4-6+ hours of back to back calls, plus other listening.
Can't have sound cutting out during calls.

My daily drivers right now are BeatsX (8+ hours), which can be charged quicker
than Airpods using a 2.4A power source. Still, a dealbreaker when they cut out
in the middle of a call on the same day.

There seem to be 2 headsets worth looking at beyond AirPods or BeatsX
currently that offer in-ear sound, and 9+ hours of sound:

New Apple Powerbeats 3 (12h): [https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/18/beatsx-
powerbeats3-and-airpod...](https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/18/beatsx-
powerbeats3-and-airpods-comparison/)

Plantronics 6200 UC (up to 9 hours) with in-call noise cancellation:
[https://www.plantronics.com/ca/en/product/voyager-6200-uc](https://www.plantronics.com/ca/en/product/voyager-6200-uc)

I've owned more BT headsets (easily over a dozen) than most folks I know,
including Airpods, which were promptly returned.

Airpods are very nice for casual listening of short commutes, etc. They may
make people feel space age, but they are still not the 3rd or 4th gen where
it's worth paying attention to most of Apple's products. They are overpriced
and underpowered, but cool tech, especially the W1 stuff. I bought and
returned the Bose QC30's too, only because they don't apply noise cancellation
to calls.

In-ear Bluetooth sound has to evolve be forgiving enough to provide 10-20
hours of use to allow charging every other day.

------
pbuzbee
I just want to listen to music on my phone using the same set of headphones
that I use for literally every other device that I own, without much/any
hassle.

But without the headphone jack, this use case becomes harder. Now I suddenly
have to accept a trade off: either I (1) spend a lot of money for fancy
headphones (e.g. Airpods), (2) deal with cheap Bluetooth headphones, or (3)
deal with dongles.

My use case used to be simple, but now it costs me money, convenience, or
both.

------
makmanalp
My main problem with the jack removal is that not only did it make life worse
for many people, but there's really no reason for the removal. You want to
convince everyone to use bluetooth headphones, fine! You don't need to get rid
of the jack for that.

And the space excuse seems like a silly one: They managed to fit one in the
quite thin and small iphone 6. The 5 / SE is plenty thin (my preferred phone
right now) and has one. Really, I don't need a phone to be smaller than that,
and phones keep getting getting larger anyway!

More generally with apple products, I don't need them to keep "innovating" all
the time. My 2013 retina macbook pro is the best laptop I've ever used, and
they had to make it thinner and remove a bunch of stuff for no good reason.
_sigh_ The latest iphones are marginal improvements over their previous
iterations, especially in comparison to how huge a leap each one of the first
few iterations were. And this is fine! It means you're approaching a stable,
mature product. Stop rejiggering everything. :-(

------
nathantotten
I was initially skeptical, but optimistic about the removal of the jack. I
thought maybe this would lead to some new headphones with really good DACs or
lossless wireless headphones. But alas, it is not so. I’m stuck with my same
headphones and a dongle.

------
themgt
What I don't understand is why you can buy a usb<->lightning cable for like $5
at any gas station, but afaict all lightning-based headphones are stupid
expensive. Couldn't some company just start selling $10 lightning headphones?

~~~
Bud
Uhhhhhh, Apple includes free Lightning headphones with every iPhone sold.

------
TYPE_FASTER
I've had a LifeProof case on my iPhone for four years, so needed an adapter to
use headphones anyway. I recently bought a $25 pair of Anker Bluetooth
earbuds.

I'm not going back to wired music on my phone. This is better.

------
Seanny123
I absolutely adore this style of "gonzo" writing. It's like a film directed by
Wes Anderson. It's not ideal for every topic, but whenever it shows up I'm
delighted.

~~~
NN88
This was particularly effective.

Its risky, but when done well...you get this.

------
Dramatize
If the Macbook Pro had a lightning port, it'd make swapping from the iPhone
much easier. Having the dongle floating around while using your Mac is a pain.

------
ag56
AirPods are great. Best headphones I've ever had. Totally solve the day to
day.

But clearly no-one at Apple ever gets on a plane.

~~~
jvzr
You can try Airfly (haven't used it, don't work for them)

[https://www.twelvesouth.com/product/airfly](https://www.twelvesouth.com/product/airfly)

------
coldseattle
Meh. _Real_ headphones have 1/4" or 4-pin balanced XLR connectors, like my
Grado or Oppo headphones do.

------
jasonm89
I lost my dongle two weeks ago, haven't bothered to buy a new one yet. My bus
rides have been silent. :(

------
fragmede
I'd like to be smug about Android, except that the Pixel 2 removed the
headphone jack as well. There are other Android phones, but now that Apple's
removed it from the iPhone, the rest of market is free to copy them. See also:
user inaccessible battery, floppy drives, USB (over serial) ports...

~~~
aarmenaa
Google has you covered on the smugness:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rykmwn0SMWU&t=42s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rykmwn0SMWU&t=42s)

They specifically called out Apple for losing the jack, and a year later the
Pixel 2 didn't have one either.

------
Overtonwindow
The 3.5mm jack was just fine, and I truly believe Apple removed it to sell us
something, to further lock us into an ecosystem. It was a business decision.
So is mine to switch to Android. I’ve got a 6 plus with the jack and I’m
holding on to it, gently, for the day when I’ll go to the store and say give
me the best phone with a headphone jack, knowing it likely won’t be the best
phone on the market.

~~~
Bud
You'd best prepare for the time when all major Android phones have dropped the
1/8" jack too, then. It's coming. Rapidly.

------
mr_nobody_jr
I suspect its a multi-fold corporate strategy move. A) It pushes people to buy
Airpods. B) It helps push the image that Apple is avant garde. C) It will make
the transition easier when they remove head phone jacks on their laptops.

That being said, I agree its not very consumer friendly. There is no reason
they couldn't have done this in multiple steps.

