
Show HN: Millow – Stay connected with your inner circle - jsherwani
https://millow.app
======
gomox
I find the pitch story compelling and the idea intriguing, but having people
download an app for it strikes me as frictional and a bit invasive.

Essentially you are asking me to volunteer relationships that are usually in a
somewhat fragile state (i.e. valued but undermaintained) to some impersonal
external system that's going to send growth-hack-like e-mails to them and ask
them to download apps.

How about something more akin to a personal CRM app where I could unilaterally
enter some of my friends and it could help me maintain engagement through
reminders or scheduling assistance (or say, location awareness?). I would have
downloaded that in a second, and I would posit that a lot of others would as
well since most people strongly identify with the "people I wish I had kept in
touch more" message.

Monetization might later come in from the business angle to the same idea
(maintain engagement with valuable contacts, using only an app).

~~~
JoshTriplett
Likewise! I would love to have a "personal CRM" if it was well done.
Preferably integrated with my phone's contact database, but also usable via my
computer with a real keyboard.

~~~
DiogoMCampos
It already exists:
[https://github.com/monicahq/monica](https://github.com/monicahq/monica).

I've never used it though, maybe I should actually try it out.

~~~
jsherwani
We looked at alternatives and chose to go a much more minimalistic route with
Millow. It does just a few things:

1) Single-player: set reminders for when to meet friends, and log when you do

2) Multi-player: share your availability with friends you add, and see theirs
(if they add you), so you can find times to meet. Especially helpful when
time-zones are involved (we show you their availability overlaid on your time
zone.

Other apps do a lot more, but in our opinion, are a lot more complicated. We
wanted to create a much simpler alternative and iterate based on feedback — so
we'd love to hear what you think, especially since you're interested in trying
one or more of these apps out.

------
apatters
The learn more page is brilliant and insightful. I haven't heard the term
"commemorative friends" before and I agree that this is a real problem with
Facebook (they have many, but the bottom line is they just fucked up the
signal to noise ratio in order to make an extra buck, and they're on the
defensive because of it now).

So I agree there's a real problem here that needs solving (help me nurture the
relationships that really matter, protect me from attempts to distract me
while I do this). But I wouldn't install an app for it under any
circumstances, my engagement with the brand ends immediately when I realize
that has to happen. The industry has simply betrayed our trust too many times.
It doesn't help that most people already have too many apps on their phone and
are trying to cut those down a bit. This is a challenge for newcomers I know
but it's real.

Maybe do a web version and make it feel more like a personal productivity tool
than a social network. I don't mean make it about being productive, but social
media has such a stink at this point and is so synonymous with "creep garbage
into my life after hitting critical mass" that I would try a different
positioning.

~~~
jsherwani
We will eventually do a web version (perhaps sooner than we'd originally
imagined, based on feedback here!).

At a high level, we want to be a tool that you use for a few minutes at the
most, perhaps not even daily. But as long as we're able to help you get out
into the real world and meet / call your friends, we will have achieved our
objective.

We aren't a social network — we have no feed, and employ no growth hacks (we
would love for you to invite your friends because you _want_ to). We don't
consider ourselves social media either. We're a tool closer to your calendar
app than to your Facebook/Instagram.

When we spoke with our initial users (friends and family), we found that there
were two main reasons why people didn't stay in touch with others as much as
they'd like:

1) They weren't sure if the other person (typically a dormant friend) was
interested in staying in touch 2) They weren't sure when the other person was
free (especially if time zones were an issue)

This is why we added the ability to share your availability with your close
friends — our first 'multi-player' feature. Everything else can be used
standalone ('single-player') — in fact, you could even manually add contacts
without even putting in their phone number if you so choose.

I'm curious to hear how you feel about the app if you were to try it and use
it. Please do reach out to us (support@millow.app) if you're up for it — we're
a two person team and are eager to engage with our users (and potential ones),
and are especially interested in critical feedback!

------
jsherwani
We're the founders of Millow (I previously co-founded Screenhero), and are
happy to answer any questions folks may have!

~~~
tom--
Nice idea, what did you write the app with?

On Win 10 Chrome the font is Times New Roman which makes the site look a
little cheap, but the graphics are cute.

~~~
jsherwani
Oops! Just deployed a temporary fix (we tested mainly on Mac!) and added sans-
serif. We'll improve the Windows situation in the next day or so.

It's written in Ionic (so we could iterate quickly on iOS/Android, and
potentially have a web version up without too much additional effort).

------
vongomben
Cool. I am checking your site. The topic is super interesting.

Which are the differences with Monica [1]?

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14497295](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14497295)

------
alkonaut
This doesn't seem to need any of the information actually uploaded anywhere -
it's just a list of my connections, used by me?

So does that mean I can be sure that none of my "social graph" or personal
information is ever used for any purpose such as advertising?

~~~
jsherwani
First, we will never use your personal information for advertising. We want to
be a personal productivity app, and not a social network.

On the specifics of your question, there are two ways to use the app:

1) Single-player mode: you add a contact (either imported from your contact
list, or typed in manually by you) and set reminders for when to meet, and log
when you do

(You could do this via manually adding contacts and be sure that none of your
social graph / personal information is put out there at all, other than your
phone number for account verification)

2) Multi-player mode: share your availability with your inner circle. You need
to use real phone numbers for this, so we can verify your friends if/when they
join (note: we won't contact them to join, that's on you) so we ensure we're
only sharing your availability info with verified friends you've added.

I hope that helps!

------
rc-1140
Why is this different from all of the other "stay connected with your _true_
circle of friends" apps that we (as a tech-based community) keep pumping out
as The Answer to Social Media™?

~~~
jsherwani
We haven't found any apps that did exactly what we're doing:

1) Single-player mode: let you add friends in manually, set reminders and log
when you do meet or call

2) Multi-player mode: let you share availability with your inner circle (and
vice versa) so you can more easily find times to meet or call (especially
useful across time zones)

We want Millow to be simple and focused on a very short list of use cases,
rather than trying to do too much.

------
mcny
Follow up question to the Facebook question should you answer no, how do you
expect to pay for everything?

How do you think you will be different from path?
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=path&sort=byPopularity&prefix&...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=path&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)

(Just to identify which path)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3563016](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3563016)

~~~
jsherwani
In the future, if we're able to help people make plans to meet up with their
friends, we envision being able to help make reservations at local restaurants
(also helping local economies thrive), and making a small amount of money from
the restaurant. Unlike Facebook, we don't want hours of your attention — we
want you to get in the app, and get out, and live your life with the people
that matter.

If you were asking about our specific practices w.r.t. contacts, we only
import 1 contact at a time when you pick one from your list, and if you prefer
to not give access to your contact list, you can manually type in your
contacts too.

------
d--b
Few thoughts:

1\. It sets a frontier between your “true” friends and others. What if I don’t
like someone anymore but don’t want to offend by removing them from my Millow?
What if someone wants to add me but I don’t think of them as close enough to
be on mine?

2\. I personally do this on Line and WhatsApp. So I really don’t feel like
adding yet another social app

3\. The reminder part is weird, if they really are close friends, I don’t need
a reminder to call them. So this feels more a “remember to call grandma”.

~~~
jsherwani
These are great questions:

1\. You can use Millow (in "single-player" mode) without anyone ever seeing
you've added them. You can set reminders for a friend, and log when you meet.
This is all private, and won't ever be visible to anyone other than you.

The only feature in the app that currently changes if you've added someone is
the "availability" feature. So if you add your availability, and you add
someone as a friend, and they add you as a friend, and they see your
availability, and then you remove them as a friend, they will cease to be able
to see your availability. However, this experience is also identical to the
act of deleting your account. So your friend may just think you deleted your
account. But yes, your point is still valid, and we don't have a great answer
for this. At the end of the day, we want you to only add friends that really
matter, and if someone ceases to matter, there's really no easy way for our
product to help with the difficult conversation you may have to have.

2\. Fair enough! We designed the app for those that need help, so we're happy
for you that you're doing this already :)

3\. The research (which we mentioned in our learn more section) talks about
dormant friends that you would want to reconnect with, but aren't actively in
your life. I grew up in Pakistan, and many of my best friends still live
there, but now that I'm in California, I don't get a chance to reconnect with
them anywhere as often as I'd like. And I also don't know when they're free.
Also, even for friends that are local, sometimes life just happens and a lot
of time goes by before people meet up. If you don't have friends of this sort,
that's great, but this is an issue that many people face, and they're the
app's target audience.

------
kshatrea
Here's my question off the bat: Facebook is known for using Onavo to find
networks that take off and then buying them (I forget names - tbh was it?). I
know of course this early in the process you don't know what the future holds,
but are you open to acquisition by Facebook? I place a very high value on
using the product depending on that answer.

~~~
Aeolun
Everyone is not open to being aquired by Facebook until they get a $10B offer.
Even if they say no now, that’s no guarantee for the future.

~~~
kshatrea
To be clear, I am not saying they shouldn’t be acquired - if they get acquired
by Twitter/Microsoft/AANG I am totally going to be a supportive user. It is
the F word I consider unworthy.

~~~
jsherwani
On acquisition, we would cease to be in charge of our destiny, whether by FB
or by Twitter/MSFT/AANG [1]. If we're successful in our product & business
strategy, we'll stay independent forever, and will monetize through restaurant
reservations at local businesses when we help you make a plan to meet up with
your friend. Glad to hear you'd be a supportive user even if we were acquired,
but we'd like to keep a direct relationship with you ourselves and never be
acquired :)

[1] [https://stratechery.com/2018/instagrams-
ceo/](https://stratechery.com/2018/instagrams-ceo/)

------
mistircek
I'm really glad that you pushed out this app, I was looking for something like
this. On the other hand, I'm really curious about how you'll make money. I
signed up, but if you were asking for some money (either monthly or app
purchase fee), I'd feel more secure.

~~~
jsherwani
We _just_ added a section to our 'learn more' page to address this important
question:

>Millow is not a social network. There is no feed, and no advertising. We
designed Millow to be used no more than a few minutes each week. We eventually
hope to sustain our business by helping you make reservations at local
restaurants and businesses, and making a sliver of revenue from such
transactions. This is in support of our goal to stay independent as a company,
so we can continue to provide this product for perpetuity, and maintain our
focus on our mission of helping you stay connected to your inner circle.

------
city41
Your website has dead scrollbars:
[https://i.imgur.com/xhNVAnS.png](https://i.imgur.com/xhNVAnS.png)

If you're developing on OSX, it hides scrollbars by default. Best to turn them
on to detect issues like this.

~~~
jsherwani
Wow, I had no idea! Thank you, I _just_ deployed a fix.

~~~
city41
Yup, they are now gone for me.

------
shrikant
Looks good, and I really appreciate the "single player mode"! (My friends
don't need to know that I'm socially inept enough to need an app like this...)

I alos love the name, assuming it's from the Hindi word for "meet"?

~~~
jsherwani
Urdu/Hindi, yes!

------
djvdorp
I like the idea, reminds me of the "Smart Contact Reminder"
([https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.barta.stayi...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.barta.stayintouch))
app for Android. Too bad this one is not available for Android (yet?).
However, there is definitely a market for a Personal CRM like this. Desktop
access would be great. Maybe even like a web-app like Tinyblue
([https://tinyblu.com](https://tinyblu.com))?

~~~
jsherwani
Update: we _just_ pushed out an update that enables access from web (albeit, a
desktop-friendly version of the mobile site). Let us know what you think!

------
winslett
I like it. I like that it encourages human-to-human meetings through
technology. I like the simplicity of it.

Given LinkedIn screw us with permissions to access contacts, I always cringe
when an app requires access to contacts.

~~~
jsherwani
So glad you like the app! We really wanted to encourage more human-to-human
connection and get people spending less time on social media. We're hoping
that Millow can do that :) Re: permission to access contacts: we're strongly
against spamming your contacts (we've had our own negative experiences with
apps that do). If you prefer to not give permission to contacts, you can
always add friends manually.

When you add a friend to Millow, it lets us know you trust this person and are
open to sharing your availability with them (availability is a feature in
Millow). If someone you didn't add as a friend adds you to their Millow
account, they are not able to see your availability because you did not add
them as a friend on your account. We also do not let people know if they have
been added to your Millow account, as we feel this is private information.

You can always opt to not share your availability as well, but we have found
it helps people break down barriers for communication in different time-zones.

Given the strong preference for desktop/web access here on HN, we will likely
be prioritizing this feature earlier than we were before!

Happy to discuss more at support@millow.app and thanks again for the feedback!

------
milesward
I think this is a great start. I like the scheduled time to connect, but I
want the opposite: a notification that RIGHT NOW I'm free and if folks wanna
yak I'm up for it. I sometimes find myself stuck in traffic, or driving way
out to an airport, and I'd love to opportunistically fill that time with a
great convo, but don't want to spam the world with my availability, or come
off as rude (hey, i'll talk to anyone!); maybe sharing this smaller tight-
friend community would allow that to not be weird :)

~~~
jsherwani
This is a great idea, and one we'll get to once we have enough of a user base.
The critical mass requirement for a synchronous "now" experience is much
higher than for an asynchronous one, so stage 1 is to build a user base, so
that we can support this in stage 2.

------
speps
Sounds good, but count me out if there's no way to access it from desktop. I
wouldn't use Facebook, Twitter, etc. if I couldn't access it from a normal
browser too.

~~~
jsherwani
We’ll open up desktop access if there’s sufficient demand. We’re a team of two
and we wanted to focus on mobile first and not dilute our efforts trying to
work on too many platforms early on, but can definitely do this in the future.

------
nwsm
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/catchup-keep-in-
touch/id1358...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/catchup-keep-in-
touch/id1358023550?l=es&mt=8)

Here's a similar app that is less of a "platform". It just gives you reminders
every day/week/month to keep in touch with someone.

iOS only right now.

------
3chelon
I don't know about anyone else, but my real friends are those I actually stay
in touch with. I have their phone number, email address, whatever.

The point is, I don't need another social network for that. Social networks
always grow to include everyone you don't care about.

~~~
dzek69
Yeah, their idea will fail on "add only your closest friends" guideline.

If one really cares - they may just do the same on FB or just add closest
people to the group designed for.. closest people.

Most people active on socials likes to see their counters grow. Likes,
friends, subscriptions.

Just another social network to register and install the app isn't going to fix
that.

------
finchisko
Trying to solve problem that I don't have (feel). But like the website and UI
of the app.

------
Aeolun
Swiping right gets me a half finished profile page. Is that supposed to be
visible?

~~~
jsherwani
Oops, that's a bug — just deployed a fix. Sorry about that!

------
afandian
This is something I've been coming to miss since turning my back on facebook-
the-platform. Upvoting for the idea, but it's a shame it's for iOS only.

Does anyone have recommendations for something open source on Android?

~~~
jsherwani
It’s available for both iOS and Android. If you visit the page from Android,
the button should take you to the Google Play Store.

~~~
afandian
Ah, great just saw the 'android' and 'web' links. I'm sure it didn't say that
yesterday...

Without a direct APK download I'll give it a miss, thanks. But it's a great
concept. I supplied my phone number (why?) to try out the web version but it's
clearly designed for touch-screens, not mice.

I did discover Monica from elsewhere in this thread, which looks like a good
fit.

------
philipkiely
Looks awesome, I appreciate the simple signup and signin process. One tiny bug
report: the signout button is misaligned vertically on an iPhone 8 in portrait
mode. The button still functions properly.

~~~
jsherwani
Thanks! We just deployed a fix.

------
vertis
I love the idea of this app, however I fell at the first hurdle. I don't have
a current phone number with which to receive texts.

Why is that a necessity to sign up?

------
Nerada
I'd be really interested in purchasing something like this as an Outlook add-
in. I try to keep all my contacts in Outlook and synced/backed up with CalDav.

~~~
jsherwani
We don't have plans to create a plug-in for Outlook at the moment, but this is
something we will keep in mind :)

------
twsted
Is there still a space for a platform / app like this?

Genuine question, maybe I'm living in my own bubble where privacy is (at last)
becoming more a necessity.

~~~
jsherwani
For the ultra-private, we've made it possible for you to add people without
actually sharing access to your contact list — just choose the 'add manually'
option when adding a friend, and enter anything you want for their name/phone
number. The app will still work as a single-player option.

There's only one feature you'll miss in this case. You just won't be able to
share availability with someone unless they log in with the same phone number
as what you've got stored in your contacts. This is to ensure that only
friends you add are able to see your availability.

------
smpetrey
Too bad I cant experience this in browser. That's a huge chunk of lost
marketshare.

~~~
jsherwani
We _just_ pushed a version that supports a browser (although it's basically
the mobile app exposed on the browser). Let us know what you think!

------
hagreet
I could be wrong but it seems like a simple habit tracker like habitloop would
do.

~~~
jsherwani
Here's a counter-example. For folks that do intermittent fasting, there's the
need to track when you start and stop your fast. It sounds like a simple
stopwatch app would solve this problem.

Yet an app like Zero (which is fantastically designed) is still incredibly
useful, and has 54k+ reviews, and an average of 5 stars on the App Store:
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/zero-fasting-
tracker/id11683...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/zero-fasting-
tracker/id1168348542?mt=8)

Apps designed for specific purposes often trump general purpose apps that
don't focus. We feel this is a similar space where a specific kind of solution
is better than a general purpose one.

------
iamwil
You should chat with the former founders of Etacts W10.

------
eximius
Can't scroll on mobile?

~~~
jsherwani
Could you give details on which device / which page you hit this issue on?

------
nuclx
Are you serious about the font choice on the website?

~~~
jobigoud
I think it's a bug actually.

According to the CSS the font is supposed to be "Helvetica Neue", but the user
may not have it installed. For me I get the Firefox default "Times New Roman"
instead.

~~~
jsherwani
Spot on — we just added sans-serif to our CSS.

