
Jeffrey Epstein’s Donations Create a Schism at M.I.T.’s Media Lab - furcyd
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/business/media/mit-media-lab-jeffrey-epstein-joichi-ito.html
======
duxup
>Nicholas Negroponte, a prominent architect who helped found the lab in 1985,
told the crowd that he had met Mr. Epstein at least once since Mr. Epstein’s
2008 guilty plea in Florida for soliciting a minor for prostitution, and had
advised Mr. Ito about the donations.

>“I told Joi to take the money,” he said, “and I would do it again.”

Was that supposed to....help?

~~~
dumbfoundded
It's a tricky subject. I lean for taking the money. I used to work in the
media lab and honestly, it seems like a decent place. Pretty much everyone
there is giving up a much larger salary at a FANG company to work on
interesting things.

Did the Media Lab help Mr. Epstein rape more children in any way by taking the
money? Probably not. Evil people can do good things. The world is complicated.

If people really want to start tracking the provenance of funding, perhaps we
should start with investigating larger sums. No one in Silicon Valley seems to
have any trouble taking money from Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund.

~~~
alexryan
If Jeffrey Epstein had preyed upon the children of the coastal elites instead
of the children of the poor, I suspect that the subject would be less
“tricky”.

~~~
dumbfoundded
It doesn't change the moral argument from my perspective but if that happened,
Epstein and many others may actually face punishment. I think I'd prefer that
hypothetical.

------
acbart
Negroponte really boofed up with the One-Laptop-Per-Child project. It had a
lot of good intentions, but it's such a textbook example of misguided tech
folks inserting themselves into an education setting. From this article,
sounds like another strike for him.

~~~
scruple
I would normally never tell someone this because it's generally very
unimportant... But, in this case I think it's probably warranted, so that you
know for the future. The word "boof" [0] has come to mean something very
different in recent times.

[0]:
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boof#Verb_2](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boof#Verb_2)

~~~
liability
Is this sort of slang not similar to _' fucked up'_ or _' screwed the pooch'_?

~~~
scruple
Slang as in the definitions given in the link I provided? No, that slang and
the common usage of the word you see associated with it today online and in
younger generations is not at all similar to 'fucked up' or 'screwed the
pooch.'

~~~
jacobolus
Where by “younger generations” you mean “people younger than 60” (source:
Supreme Court Justice Boofing Bart O'Kavanaugh’s high school yearbook)

~~~
scruple
Im thinking more of how the citations on the Wiktionary link start referencing
_this_ usage of the word as happening around the turn of the century, but,
sure. Though, I had no idea that (_this_ usage of the word or the apparent
reference from his yearbook) was a thing, either, and I'm a Xenial.

edit/ Read an article about the yearbook. I don't know how I missed that when
all of that was going down. Thanks for pointing that out!

------
johntiger1
If I was MIT, I'd be more worried about the connection between Minsky and
Epstein. Money is one thing, but can MIT dissociate from a (renowned) faculty
member who steered the field of AI?

~~~
geofft
Relevantly, Minsky is dead and Negroponte and Ito aren't. That means that the
form of disassociating with him is different (they can't fire him/ask him to
resign anymore, and there are no calls to do so), and moreover he's
subconsciously judged as a "product of his time."

------
gaogao
[https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-
jeff...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-jeffrey-
epstein-joi-ito-nicholas-negroponte-funding-sex-abuse/) has some more details
about the meeting. Found it a slightly better read than this one.

------
kwindla
MIT Technology Review article with more details about the Media Lab all hands
meeting referenced in the Times story:

[https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-
jeff...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-jeffrey-
epstein-joi-ito-nicholas-negroponte-funding-sex-abuse/)

------
Animats
_" Negroponte said that he prided himself on knowing over 80% of the
billionaires in the US on a first-name basis."_

He went to Choate, the prep school. "There is no door in this entire country
that cannot be opened by a Choate graduate" \- John Lupton, director of
development at Choate.

~~~
gumby
That was already set up by the time he got to Choate; e.g. his roommate at La
Rosey is now the Aga Kahn. He grew up embedded in that world.

Source: I used to work for Nicholas and in fact lived in one of his houses for
a while.

------
jaclaz
Not exactly a brand new doubt/question, only for the record:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet)

~~~
joelx
If you are doing something that is a good cause, you should take money
wherever you can get it without any ethical concerns. I would much rather have
the MIT media lab to have that money than Jeffrey Epstein.

The only thing to watch out for is to make sure you are not rehabilitating an
evil person's reputation. But if it donation is made anonymously or quietly,
it should be okay.

------
jtlienwis
Taking money from a man that was convicted of earning money from sexually
exploiting children makes taking money from a bank robber look virtuous.

~~~
stickfigure
Eh? He was convicted of _giving_ money to children in exchange for sex.

There have been accusations that he got his start by embezzling from Wexner,
but as far as anyone can tell so far, the bulk of Epstein's wealth is
"legitimate".

~~~
glangdale
As far as I know, no-one has any real explanation for where Epstein's wealth
comes from. Apparently real hedge fund guys were baffled as to where his money
comes from and the suggestion that the whole thing was an elaborate blackmail
operation isn't beyond credibility.

~~~
stickfigure
It pushes the extreme limits of credibility. It would be a decades-long-
running blackmail scheme, involving hundreds of millions of dollars. With
dozens of people involved. Overseen by accountants.

It's just a bit too "made for TV movie". This story is under a microscope. If
there was a conspiracy that elaborate, it would have come out by now.

I could be proven wrong, but I'm betting on "rich creep who thinks he can buy
everything" rather than secret-society mastermind pulling puppet-strings.

~~~
glangdale
Well, a lot of things about this push the limits of credibility - if you were
an author who told me about Epstein in a novel ('private sex island', 'hangs
around with royalty and famous scientists') I'd say you're overdoing it. Have
a look at:

[http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/hedge-funders-have-
so...](http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/hedge-funders-have-some-
thoughts-on-what-epstein-was-doing.html)

~~~
stickfigure
Anyone with enough money and libido can buy property and staff it with
prostitutes. Anyone offering enough grant money can hang out with famous
scientists. I don't see why that is hard to believe.

That article can be summarized as: "We don't know where he got his money from,
therefore let's speculate". It's good entertainment, but reality is usually
pretty mundane. It's easier to believe Hoffenberg's claim that Epstein made
off with the proceeds of the Tower Financial ponzi scheme. But that too seems
heavily investigated already.

------
stickfigure
This is dumb. If Charles Manson wants to give your institution money, take it
and do something positive with it.

~~~
diydsp
If the transaction stopped at receiving the money, that would be one thing.
However, ML donors visit the lab twice a year for sponsor weeks. It meant
putting other sponsors, faculty, and researcher assistants in the same room as
a convicted sex offender for several weeks of the year.

And he wasn't just a convicted sex offender, as in "streaked the incoming
freshman class." He was a world class scumbug who (seemingly) got a sweetheart
deal for ratting out some top brass at Bear Stearns. If he was little people,
he'd be away for life and destroyed by inmates.

And in retrospect it appears he was even not a reformed offender.

~~~
darawk
> And he wasn't just a convicted sex offender, as in "streaked the incoming
> freshman class." He was a world class scumbug who (seemingly) got a
> sweetheart deal for ratting out some top brass at Bear Stearns

Slightly off topic but do you have a source for that? Not because I don't
believe you, but just because I hadn't heard that little detail before and it
sounds interesting.

~~~
peter_l_downs
if you were to google "jeffrey epstein bear stearns" you would relatively
quickly arrive at this page
[http://miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html](http://miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html)
but they don't link a specific source and all other results just repeat this
information

------
Qo2
Say the media lab takes his money, and then decides that they don't want to be
associated with him or his alleged activities.

Should they give it back? Should they set it aside? Throw it into a temple?
Something else? Was it even really his (Epstein's) to begin with?

Genuinely curious, here.

------
ykevinator
The media lab is a self indulgent stain on an otherwise perfect institution,
and secondly, take the money. This morality contest has got to stop.

------
alexryan
I cannot think of anything more terrifying than high IQ sociopaths.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
Really? I'm more scared of the reverse: Sincerely well-meaning people who fail
to fully consider their actions and therefore end up pushing terrible ideas
with extreme force because they are so convinced that they're right. "Think of
the children!" (destroys privacy, institutionalizes censorship) "Save the
environment!" (switches to a product that turns out to have higher total
impact) "Stop the pedophiles!" (organizes witch hunt and throws out burden of
proof)

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims
may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons
than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may
sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who
torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with
the approval of their own conscience.”

― C. S. Lewis

\---

EDIT: Realized I should point out - the dig at pedophile witch hunts isn't
meant as a commentary on this article, it's just a generic example.

~~~
alexryan
It’s a fair point and a genuinely real phenomenon. However, in my experience,
people with low PCL-R scores who make bad decisions when in emotional states
are likely to change their position when they realize they have inadvertently
harmed the innocent. Genuine psychopaths, on the other hand, are incurable
predators.

~~~
Udik
> people with low PCL-R scores who make bad decisions when in emotional states
> are likely to change their position when they realize they have
> inadvertently harmed the innocent

Mass emotional behavior (arguably well-intentioned, for some definition of
good we might not share) can last an extremely long time and do enormous
damage- down to persecution, massacres and pogroms. And this is valid for
every people, any country and any time, and any degree of damage.

------
crb002
Sure the media lab can earmark the funds to human trafficking research. Got
lemons? Make lemonade.

~~~
geofft
Here are the results of some human trafficking research I did just now:
Epstein was awful, everyone knew he was awful, and nobody in polite society
should have associated with him.

OK, what do you want to do with the rest of the money? Develop an app that
tells you not to pal around with pedophiles? Maybe we'll make a green laptop
with an OLED screen and give it to children so we know who not to let the
pedophile near? Seriously, what needs to be researched here? The gap is not a
lack of research, it's a lack of moral resolve to do what everyone knows the
right thing is.

~~~
viraptor
> OK, what do you want to do with the rest of the money? ... Seriously, what
> needs to be researched here?

These efforts / organisations know and could likely use some help:
[https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/justice-policy-
center/p...](https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/justice-policy-
center/projects/human-trafficking-research-portfolio)

------
RickJWagner
"he used an earthier term".

Nice phrasing. It gets the message across, but allows polite consideration. I
hope we see more writing of this kind (again).

~~~
spraak
I'm left wondering what the term is

Edit: I did check the tweet. I was trying to point out that it's not clear
what the "earthier" term is, in disagreement with the parent post.

~~~
NateEag
The tweet they linked tells you:

[https://mobile.twitter.com/Joi/status/770625716?s=20](https://mobile.twitter.com/Joi/status/770625716?s=20)

~~~
spraak
Sorry, yes I checked the tweet. I was trying to point out that it's not clear
what the "earthier" term is, in disagreement with the parent post.

------
seph-reed
Why would anyone direct their anger in regards to the Epstein case towards
MIT? Surely, there are some billionaire child rapists more worthy of such
attention.

------
kelnos
I... kinda don't see what the big deal is? The article is kinda a mess and
it's really hard for me to see what actual justification (or anti-
justification) it's trying to push.

Yes, Epstein was a scumbag. Did Ito know he was a scumbag when he took the
money? And even if he did, would taking the money put him, the Media Lab, or
anyone who worked there in a compromised or awkward position in the future?
Was the money itself tainted in some way, derived from scumbag activities? If
not (I couldn't really glean whether or not this was the case from the
article), then... so what? Money is money, and it's hard enough already to
raise money for "out there" research, even with MIT's reputation. At the very
least, you could know that a scumbag's money was being used to do something
actually good.

~~~
ryacko
There are several ways to approach the matter. Negroponte took the worst
possible way to approach it after Ito made a long speech.

>“I told Joi to take the money,” he said, “and I would do it again.”

That statement implies he doesn’t care at all. There are other ways to handle
it, like he does care, but there’s nothing he can do about it, or have an
excuse that Epstein had no control over the use of the funds (if true), but to
say something like “Yeah, big deal, I’d do business with the guy again” is
tactless.

~~~
luckylion
> That statement implies he doesn’t care at all.

Not necessarily, he might care and weigh options and consequences and come to
a different conclusion than you, me or most people. If he still comes to that
conclusion today, "I would do it again" is the obvious answer.

~~~
ryacko
That is the difference of being in a position of authority versus the
opposite. When people look to people in authority, there are expectations,
that they are somehow responsive to an organization’s needs, that they make
the best possible decision based on the facts.

Negroponte took an action that proves he is unsuited for his position of
authority, by making the worst possible statement and also by rejecting
everyone’s opinion on the matter.

