
 Snowden distributed encrypted copies of NSA docs around the world - titlex
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/snowden-distributed-encoded-copies-of-nsa-docs-around-the-world/
======
rosser
I'm just going to leave this here:

“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in [Rio de Janeiro] via Skype
and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,”
Greenwald noted. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was
stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has
happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the
possibility exists.”

~~~
e3pi
ASK HN: How Does Edward's Dead Man Switch(EDMS) Function?

How?

So, there are these remote backups/sites out there, encrypted. Say, every week
ES has somebody Bob post a keyword somewhere, a forum, pastebin, etc. The
owner(s) Alice, Doreen, Glen, etc... of these backup sites manually or 'auto-
crontab' for this keyword, or coded sequence of keywords, if so, fine, steady
as Edward goes.

If not, .... ES released his hand(See hyperventilated Dyson's DMS in
Terminator II film) sprung trigger. NOT good:

This interrupts the auto-cron periodic keyphrase(word) update and the
toothpaste tubes are vigorously flattened, and you can't get the toothpaste
back in.

(How? ie, How does EDMS trigger release become known to remote system trigger
manager Bob or crontab daemon?)

Neighbor Bob check's local lampposts for Ed's new white tape once a week?

Can Bob be automated?

~~~
jlgreco
This is needlessly complex. Just find people that you trust to hold onto the
key, and a few other people to hold onto the file. People who's priorities are
aligned properly and are use to being leaned on (journalists and/or
activists). When they read in the New York Times that Edward Snowden is dead,
some or all of them publish.

If you are worried about one of those people colluding with another to get the
secret sauce too early, then split the secret. Give it to 50 people and
require any 10 of them to release their material. Or whatever, you can tune it
how you like depending on how many people you trust and how much you trust
them. Automation is unnecessary.

~~~
staunch

      # cat /etc/cron.daily/dead-man-switch
    
      #!/bin/bash
      wget -O latest https://raw.github.com/asdf/feab/data.txt
      if [ ! grep `date +%m%d%Y` latest ] ; then
        echo "The key is uRYB9vCT53jCSkjzaf9b" | mail -s "I'm dead." glenn.greenwald@...
      fi
    

Wouldn't be hard to run this on a few random computers around the world pretty
anonymously. The NSA getting the key isn't too big of a deal.

Of course, you'd want to test this and make it more fault tolerant.

~~~
danbruc
Find one, know the page, obtain the logs who accessed the page, find all. Or
catch Snowden and keep updating the page yourself. Not that it can not be done
in a similar way but it is non-trivial to get it right.

~~~
pyre

      | it is non-trivial to get it right.
    

But malware writers / botnet owners have been doing it for a while.

~~~
e3pi
POST EDMS triggered launch, a simmering autonomous viral botnet, foisting ES
plaintext onto infected email address lists, pastebin, etc., anything else it
can fool CAPTCHA registration, with generating SHA256 signatures, new
passwords, the whole open source kitchen sink of paranoidal-crypto-craft to
effect public-at-large propagating whistle-blaring incriminating secrets,
successfully leaked.

------
sami36
I'm starting to think the freakout we've seen in the media up to now is for
much more than the Prism disclosure. This guy is the real thing, he's got
serious insurance to bargain for his life & he's taken all precautions to
safeguard it. No wonder they're scared shitless.

~~~
drivebyacct2
The "freakout" in the "media" outside of the HN/reddit/internet bubble is
mostly obsessed with "Where in the World is Carmen, I mean Edward, Snowden?"
and not so much in the whole PRISM, constant universal wiretapping scandal.

~~~
k-mcgrady
I'm in two minds about this. Focussing on this issue is obviously important
but I think the general public gets bored of it after a few days. They are
much more interested in the human story. Keeping them hooked on that with the
obvious regular explanation of who Snowden is and why he's in the news might
get people to want to look into the actual story more. And if there is a big
'break' in the story (Snowden captured, makes it to Ecuador, etc.) people will
be hooked and then the story of the spying will hold their attention. People
(and I include myself) are much more interested in a story about other humans
than a computer hacking/spying story that doesn't really involve many specific
people directly.

~~~
graeme
I agree. Outside of Hacker News, no one is talking about PRISM at all.

The drama regarding Edward Snowden's whereabout is the only thing keeping the
story going.

For most people, PRISM was one of 100 stories on their newsfeed that day.

~~~
samstave
Amazingly happy to see that HN and /r/news|politics|worldnews now looks like
/r/conspiracy exploded all over them.

I am happy that the worries of echelon, which was treated as rumour, hearsay
and conspiracy theory are now 100% proven to the entire world.

I am looking forward to seeing what further revelations Snowden's files will
show.

~~~
DanBC
Not sure if you're using sarcasm[1] or not, but Echelon is accepted fact and
has been for many years.

The European Parliament held reports on the capabilities of Echelon.
Industrial espionage has been linked to Echelon.

The purpose of Echelon (intercept communications data) is the stated purpose
of GCHQ. Really, it's on their website and in their recruiting material. They
monitor all communications, anywhere in the world, from DC to light.

Echelon isn't fantastic weird conspiracy theory.

[1] Sarcasm is not useful in text and it's especially not useful on a forum
like HN, where there tends to be a higher number of users who are more literal
than the regular population.

~~~
samstave
No sarcasm at all.

For the majority of the population, they have either never heard of echelon,
never took it seriously or have outright dismissed it as a crazy conspiracy
irrespective of the previous proof.

I think of all these things are coming out now as an opportunity to have a
serious discussion about wtf the US (and humanity) is doing.

It's time to work as a global civilization. Our resources are squandered on
creating truly a prison planet (no reference or credit to Alex jones).

------
jpdoctor
I hope Glenn has also thought about what should happen if he has a sudden car
accident.

~~~
quackerhacker
Just for the uninformed that may not know what your referencing.

[http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/21/email-sent-by-
mic...](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/21/email-sent-by-michael-
hastings-hours-before-his-death-mentions-a-big-story-and-a-need-to-go-off-the-
radar/)

~~~
kamjam
Woah. The scene of that accident looks straight out of a movie scene, looks
too unreal to be a normal car accident!

~~~
thenewkid
Michael Hasting's friend was just interviewed on TV:

 _" His friends and family that know him, everyone says he drives like a
grandma, so that right there doesn't seem like something he'd be doing,
there's no way that he'd be acting erratic like that and driving out of
control"_

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEIjna7672Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEIjna7672Q)

~~~
codex
Do people who drive like grandmas spend bread on a 200 hp Mercedes coupe?

According to this article [1], Hastings describes himself as a "a recovering
drunk/addict/screw-up." In another True/Slant piece, he says, "I have smoked
crack." He crashed a car in a drunk-driving accident at 19.

It's funny how geeks, who pride themselves on rationality, throw Occam's Razor
out the window at the drop of a hat.

[1] [http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/06/21/LA-
Weekly...](http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/06/21/LA-Weekly-
Michael-Hastings-car-speeding-had0history-of-drunk-driving)

~~~
MRSallee
FWIW, 200 HP is not a lot and is, as far as I can tell, Mercedes' least
powerful engine (201 HP 4-cylinder). In a 3,500 lb. car, it will not be
especially fast.

(I used to have a 3,500 lb. coupe, a Pontiac GTO. Now that was fast. It had a
400 HP V8.)

------
contingencies
Headline should be _CIA burgles house in Brazil?_

 _“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in [Rio de Janeiro] via
Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the
documents,” Greenwald noted. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his
laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that
has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the
possibility exists.”_

~~~
Kylekramer
That would be a terrible headline based on that quote. Speculative,
sensationalized headlines are undesirable even if they push an agenda you
support.

Makes it very easy to dismiss.

~~~
contingencies
_Speculative, sensationalized headlines are undesirable_

Oh, I agree completely! Unfortunately, copywriters for almost every popular
newspaper in the world do this by rote.

I added a question mark. :)

------
quackerhacker
This is definitely the only reason I think he is still alive. The NSA has
probably done forensic analysis on the workstation that he utilized to
transfer the intel...and as Snowden has noted, he does not want to be careless
with the information or it's distribution in contrast to Manning.

To make it simple, I think he released to the public the appetizer, and has
withheld any main course or desert (sorry for the analogies...lunch time).

------
wyck
Wikileaks made their "insurance" available to everyone via torrent... in other
words they have safety in numbers. Snowden having distributed to file to "many
different " people is vague and if the # is small could put them in real
danger.

~~~
jlgreco
On the other hand, he's been to both Hong Kong and China now. Government
officials from either country may be among those people with the encrypted
data. Whether or not they release the encrypted data when/if the key is
publicized doesn't really matter.

Publicly distributing the encrypted data _does_ seem to be better to me, but
making it ambiguous as to whether or not foreign governments have it seems
like it could be a decent second best.

------
pvnick
I wonder to what degree Wikileaks held Snowden's hand through all of this? For
those who remember, Assange's organization distributed a large encrypted
archive through bittorrent around the diplomatic cable leaks, presumably with
a dead-man's switch [1] set up to reveal the key. I'm sure that Snowden had
some procedures in place before departing to Hong Kong, but I also recall
Assange saying they were trying to reach out to Snowden a week or two ago, and
perhaps (hopefully!) they were able to give him some insurance tips, including
potential pitfalls that Snowden may not have thought of.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man's_switch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man's_switch)

~~~
mpyne
If it's at all true that Assange had foreknowledge of Snowden's attempt to re-
penetrate NSA via B-A-H, that would be very bad news for Wikileaks IMHO.

~~~
pvnick
Not saying it goes back that far, but referring to more recent times. Like
over the past couple weeks. I don't think anybody in the world other than
Snowden himself knew of his plans to penetrate BAH. But even if they did, who
cares? As long as they didn't help him, I do not believe that knowledge of an
impending crime is in-and-of itself a crime (someone please correct me if I'm
wrong). What are they gonna do? Trump up some sexual assault charges?

~~~
mpyne
Well it would be conspiracy to commit a felony for starters. And how do you
think the American people would handle the idea of a foreign-born spymaster
using his acolytes to infiltrate the national security apparatus, however
angelic he claims his motives to be?

~~~
morsch
Plenty of other countries around whose residents are happy to find out in what
kind of ways we rightless non-residents are being informationally manhandled
by you.

~~~
mpyne
Then feel free to try to spy on us like all the other foreign countries do. In
the meantime if you have better ways to detect and track violent extremists
that could be literally anywhere in the world without accidentally scavenging
data belonging to our allies then I'm sure the NSA is all ears; you could
probably make your suggestions on any web forum, in fact.

Perhaps there's an RFC forcing AQ to set the "evil bit" on their IP packets?
That's a feasible technical solution, I suppose, as long as AQ is RFC-
compliant.

------
pmorici
So all anyone that wants access to the whole of what he has recovered needs to
do is kill him and then it will all be released? That doesn't seem like a good
position to put ones self in.

~~~
TillE
Snowden isn't carrying military secrets or anything. Details about
internet/phone surveillance are of relatively little consequence to foreign
governments, who certainly have a good idea of what's going on already.

------
babesh
He's no ordinary system administrator. This whole thing seems very well
thought through.

~~~
mratzloff
If you were going to put your life in jeopardy and go on the run, you would
probably think it through very carefully as well.

------
thufry
This is the kind of thing which may help keep him physically safe, but
massively hurts him both in the court of public opinion (which matters a lot,
if his actions are to have any positive effect for the public), and should he
stand trial in the United States (although, one could argue that if it gets to
that he's lost either way). It puts the people arguing for a pardon for him in
a much tougher position.

~~~
corford
Why? The data is encrypted so unless he divulges the key, it's useless to
whomever has it.

Also, we don't know what the data contains. So even if he does give out the
key and the media start publishing, who's to say what comes out wont be in the
public interest?

I think it's a bit early to say this strategy has massively hurt him.

~~~
thufry
It doesn't matter what the data is at this point, since it's encrypted, but
what it says, to a disinterested observer, is that Snowden is the sort of
person who would gladly wield the threat of disseminating classified US
information as a way of protecting his own skin. This directly contradicts the
falling-on-my-sword, leaving-my-girlfriend-and-highly-paid job martyr/hero
positioning he's been going for.

Snowden is coming to light as a complex character, not some altruistic
idealist who expects a pardon and a ticker-tape parade. Phrases that come to
mind are "David vs. Goliath," "Catch me if you Can," and "John Le Carre." I
love it because it's a more interesting story this way.

~~~
corford
I see your point. I guess I feel that the majority of people _are_ capable of
realising real life doesn't imitate Hollywood and Snowden quite rightly needs
to take some sensible precautions if he is to have any hope of sustaining this
story and effecting the public debate and ensuing policy changes he's fighting
for.

~~~
thufry
No, this is in fact real life _imitating_ Hollywood -- Snowden has turned
himself into a Doomsday device! I am hooked on this story like some people are
hooked on "Keeping Up With The Kardashians."

~~~
djloche
No, this is a guarentee the information gets out regardless of what happens to
him. Snowden is going to get the information out. Or, if they kill him, the
information gets out. This puts those who don't want that information getting
out in a difficult position, but it doesn't change his own situation very
much.

------
smegel
And just like Wikileaks the trickle of information will gradually dry up and
we never hear anything again. The thing I hate most about these leakers is
that they have huge stores of documents but only release a tiny fraction.

~~~
kintamanimatt
That makes sense. As Snowden said in one of the interviews, the reason he
doesn't want to release everything is so that other countries don't have a
blueprint from which to develop their own PRISM.

~~~
mpyne
Is Snowden still focused on PRISM alone? The blueprint to that is already out,
it's called FISA and FISA Amendments perhaps sprinkled with a bit of Ruby on
Rails and web services magic.

~~~
kintamanimatt
I just assumed he was talking about the technical, not legal, blueprint. I
highly doubt a full stack web framework would be the right hammer to spy on
the world's communications!

~~~
mpyne
PRISM doesn't spy on the world's communications. It automates FISA warrant
compliance, you're probably thinking of one or more of the many other NSA
systems out there.

~~~
kintamanimatt
Probably! It's easy to lose track!

------
gesman
This is double-edged sword! While USA/NSA does not want Snowden dead to keep
secrets for as long as possible - suddenly half of the world might become more
interested in exactly that to happen rather sooner than later.

------
ryanhuff
If it was known (assumed) that Snowden sent Greenwald files, don't you think
every intelligence group in the world with an interest in obtaining US
classified information would be very motivated to obtain that chip?

------
rdouble
I wish Greenwald would share these documents that are so shocking and
revealing. I would like to see what all this fuss has really been about.

------
leeoniya
wasn't this kind of assumed? to go this far and not cover all bases would be
incredibly stupid and he doesn't strike me as such.

~~~
bcRIPster
Agreed and I think the move to travel through China and Russia had to have
been part of his plans at the start as this just drags all of the
International parties into the fray whether they want to keep it quiet or not.
It also then behooves everyone to keep him safe so they don't get escalate the
finger pointing game on who might have had him killed.

I'd personally like to see less focus on the guy and more on the message
though.

~~~
Avalaxy
Interesting view. Hadn't thought about it like that :) For now China seems to
be pretty happy about Snowden.

------
thomasjames
I wonder how he was able to amass thousands of documents within two months of
being in his current position while still screening them for information
beyond the scope of what he was trying to leak. The possibility that there is
confidential information about foreign operations outside of the internet
surveillance makes me lose a great deal of respect for him. I also don't trust
someone who wasn't even able to manage a GED to read through thousands of
intelligence documents... just putting that out there. I feel like many have
been too quick to give this guy a free pass.

