
Google confirms Play store will continue to function for existing Huawei phones - jmsflknr
https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3010879/google-confirms-its-app-store-will-continue-function-existing-huawei
======
dx034
So how long will it take until Asian Phone companies using Android get
together to develop an alternative Android ecosystem? They could set it up in
a neutral nation with profits going to all companies. So far, these always
failed because it was only one company involved (e.g. Amazons app store) but
will all major manufacturers involved, it would be much more profitable for
developers to be on that app store than on Google's (they could be compatible
at the start anyway).

In the end, the one loser from this action is more likely Google than Huawei.
And I believe they know that very well but had no alternative but to act this
way.

~~~
throw20102010
Most Chinese versions of Android are completely de-Googled[1]- no Play store,
no Maps, no GMail, etc. They have their own app store, web browser, and
everything else. They are still based on Android, but it's not a stretch to
think that most Chinese phone manufacturers could fork the open source project
tomorrow.

As soon as Google goes too far against the Chinese government, the
manufacturers will receive a notice that Android is no longer welcome as an
operating system and they will flip the switch. Most Chinese citizens wouldn't
care or even notice.

Other Asian companies are working on alternative OSes in case Google ever
"pulls a Google" and kills off Android. Samsung has Tizen, which sucks, but
could be better with some work.

[1] I bought a Xiaomi phone with a Chinese ROM and it took three days to get
unlock permissions from Xiaomi to put the Global ROM on it that had Google
apps. In that time I didn't feel like I was missing anything huge- except for
being able to get directions since the maps app didn't have US street maps.

~~~
dx034
In the end, the only superior system Google offers outside of China is Search
(and to some degree Mail). Search can be integrated without the need of an app
and GMail can be accessed by any mail client. All the other money making
products (Maps, Play Store, Pay) could probably be replaced without users
complaining much.

~~~
logicchains
Bing's not banned in China, and it's not _that_ bad.

------
zmmmmm
They don't seem to be doing a very good job of communicating whether this is
voluntary or mandated by the trade sanctions. It would seem to be terribly
damaging to Google and Android if they can't convince OEMs that this is
something extraordinary that no other OEM will need to worry about.

~~~
panpanna
According to the article they think this is mandatory but they are still
reviewing it.

~~~
dx034
Which would mean that it could hit any Chinese company within days and
companies from other nations within weeks/months. I doubt the US government
will put a ban on South Korean manufacturers but I'm not sure if Samsung wants
to take that risk.

~~~
product50
Samsung is a top OEM in US unlike Huawei. Also South Korea is a big US ally.

~~~
jsgo
Currently, but the US has already chastised South Korea for not spending
enough on its defense as it relates to the US. South Korea capitulated I
believe, but there remains the possibility that in South Korea's goal of being
on agreeable terms with North Korea, it could have negative ramifications on
the US/SK relationship.

I don't think it is highly likely it'll play out like that, but if I'm
Samsung, I'm either throwing resources into Tizen or forking AOSP into a
tailored version of the OS.

~~~
product50
To suggest that China and South Korea are at the same receiving end of US'
wrath tells me how twisted your thinking is.

Also, why don't you spare Samsung your strategy. Both you and they will be
better without it.

~~~
jsgo
you're taking that to an oddly personal level.

Obviously, the views of China vs SK are different in the US right now. Who is
to say what the future holds if South Korea tries to make stronger ties with
North Korea (considering NK blames the US for their current stalemate)? I'd
argue that Samsung probably wants to have a contingency for things that are
outside of their control, but yeah, out of wack thinking.

~~~
product50
Apologies for my tone. However, I find your assertions pretty flagrant and not
any basis in reality. South Korea has been a US ally for 50+ years. Samsung is
even the top mobile OEM in US. I don't understand why suddenly Samsung now
needs to build another OS because of US threats. This is so unfathomable to me
that it is coming out in the caustic remarks I typed above.

~~~
jsgo
> Apologies for my tone.

Okay, guess we can circle back...

> that it is coming out in the caustic remarks I typed above. > I find your
> assertions pretty flagrant and not any basis in reality.

And we're done here.

------
josteink
First Google time-bombs their Nest-devices, and now they’ve created precedent
for time-bombing huge swaths of Android-devices too.

All in less than a week. You’d be crazy to invest deeply into anything Google
at this point.

Edit: This clearly shows the weakness with the android software update
delivery mechanism and architecture.

If you install windows on a Chinese laptop, there is no way Microsoft is going
to block updates for your laptop in any way in the future.

However if you buy a Chinese android phone, there is no generic update pushed
to everyone equally, but there has to be a specific update tailored for your
device. And everyone (Google, vendor, telecom service providers) can block
those updates from reaching you.

If Google wants Android to remain a viable platform in the future, they’ll
need to fix that.

Make all devices use UEFI for ARM and boot genetic OS images made equally for
everyone. Or anything else. Whatever works.

I don’t care how, they just need to fix this mess.

Edit 2: I was about to replace my iPhone SE with a Samsung Galaxy S10e (3.5mm
jack, wireless charging). I'm now reconsidering and might just end up with a
new iPhone instead.

~~~
v7p1Qbt1im
It‘s not like it was their choice to make. Intel, Qualcomm, etc. are doing the
same. The US and Chinese government are to blame.

Edit: Quite possibly Windows will not receive updates on Huawei laptops
anymore.

~~~
emptyfile
As a European customer I couldn't care less if Martians were to blame...
simply put I won't ever put a penny in Google's pocket if they brick my phone.

~~~
andygates
That's why they're not bricking any phones.

"No more updates" ain't bricking.

~~~
emptyfile
If no more updates means no more up to date security patches then as far as
I'm concerned they killed my phone...

I know that's not what the word "bricked" means.

------
maxdo
I don’t support the decision to ban android for Huawei but ... how many
companies in China been kicked from their market including Google , Facebook
etc . Most of Chinese still saying that was right decision, so what’s wrong
with kicking out one company due to espionage. No issues with let’s say one
plus which is more popular in US and still Chinese.

~~~
logicchains
>how many companies in China been kicked from their market including Google

For the record, Google voluntarily withdrew from China as a form of moral
protest (it didn't want to help the government censor/spy on its citizens). It
wasn't just banned as a means of protecting local companies, since Bing isn't
banned, nor for that matter is Azure or Outlook/Hotmail.

~~~
leavjenn
Google didn't withdrawn. They stopped censorshipping sensitive keywords and
moved their servers to Hong Kong. Then China blocked their sites. You can't
withdraw from the Internet by simply move your servers. Bing censor sensitive
keywords so China allows them to stay.

------
gcatalfamo
Warning: Personal opinion, so treat it as such.

Regardless of this being mandated or not, they are sacking the best Android
flagship representative thus leaving the market open to others.

Huawei is huge outside US and their latest phones are a better purchase than
Samsung, more performant but most importantly they age slower which is a
critical thing for an Android device.

~~~
dagaci
This has been mandated by a US government decree. The US president has
declared a "National Emergency" which gives him this kind of power. They have
placed Huawei and 70 linked partners on a trade blacklist saying Huawei is a
danger to national security.

So it is now effectively an offense for US companies to trade with Huawei
directly or indirectly.

[https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3010403/us-
commerce-...](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3010403/us-commerce-
department-places-chinas-huawei-and-70-affiliates-trade)

I hope it leads to competition, but i doubt that will happen any time soon.

~~~
craftyguy
> The US president has declared a "National Emergency" which gives him this
> kind of power.

When everything is a 'national emergency', nothing is.

> I hope it leads to competition, but i doubt that will happen any time soon.

Are you living under a rock? There is already a LOT of competition in the US
smartphone market (both domestic and foreign brands) and now, with this new
'national emergency,' there is less competition in the US. Mission
accomplished?

~~~
dagaci
The choice is between a very expensive and heavily walled garden Apple iOS or
Android where your experience can vary.

While Apples growth rate has fallen, i'm am sure there is a reason why it can
charge over 2 x high-end premiums. Hint: It has nothing to do with the
hardware.

~~~
craftyguy
Meanwhile, banning a handful of Chinese phone manufacturers does absolutely
nothing to address your "only 2 phone OSes" concerns. In fact, it further
validates my previous comment, because now there are fewer OEMs operating in
the US who could introduce an alternative to Android or Google.

~~~
dagaci
You have to go beyond this kind of limited view. A new OS which has momentum
anywhere is an opportunity to weaken the chains of monopoly everywhere.

As i said i originally: I hope it leads to competition, but i doubt that will
happen any time soon.

There is an absolute requirement for Huawei to build new technology and
actually any other successful firm which has dependencies on US imports.

~~~
craftyguy
I'm not sure I understand the argument you are trying to make here. I agree
that having new OS opportunities is a great thing, but removing competition
from the US market means there's less incentive for companies still in the US
market to create alternative operating systems. Are we basically saying the
same thing?

------
fauigerzigerk
This is ominous for Apple as well, being the poster child of American
industry.

China could retaliate by disrupting Apple's supply chain, but I don't think it
will happen as it would put a huge question mark over China as a component
supplier for every single industry.

~~~
adventured
It's not ominous at all. China can't retaliate in that manner if they want
Huawei to remain a functioning business.

The US controls nearly all aspects of the global technology industry. It can
rather smash Huawei any time it chooses to, ZTE style, by entirely revoking
Huawei's access to critical components (and a lot of markets).

Without China, Apple remains the most profitable company on earth and can
safely, entirely abandon China. Taiwan I'll note is not China.

Huawei on the other hand can't survive as is without US technology. They'd
lose at least 3/4 of their business and most likely end up in bankruptcy.

~~~
greatpatton
Can you please tell us which part of US technology Huawei will need at all
costs? CPU? Based on a European company design Memory? Chinese and Asian
companies already in charge of most of this market Modem? They have their own
design OS? They are already using open source Android without Google
technology for Chinese use Screen? Same local and other asian sources dominate
this world etc.

No the only way, US can impact these company is by preventing them to trade
with the rest of the world. But after ZTE, this will be seen as full war by
China, and the global economic impact of this will make 2008 looks like a
great year for the economy.

------
novaRom
I don't know how is it in US, but in Europe recently Huawei is very successful
and growing. All big smartphone stores have now special tables with Huawei
show-cases, lots of TV Ads.

~~~
product50
"was"

Without Google, users will just shift over to Android. Agreed Huawei's phones
are good but are they as good for users to not care about GMail, YouTube, Play
Store etc.? On top of that, will users trust an OS by a Chinese company?

~~~
pjmlp
The same way we as Europeans, have to trust an US company, foreign to our
countries with its own agenda.

So if this comes to US versus the world, maybe Android or Google services
wouldn't be that relevant, long term.

------
gonvaled
Does this apply to phones being currently sold? If I buy today the Huawei P30
Pro, in amazon.de, will I have (and keep) access to Google services?

~~~
sigmar
my (well-informed but not expert) opinion is that you'll be able to use google
services and the play store indefinitely, but that phone will not receive any
more _system_ updates that maintain access to google services (since any
android update w/ services baked in require google's cts and vts
certification, which they will no longer perform for Huawei)

~~~
gonvaled
Are you saying that:

A) all Huawei phones (old or currently being sold) with Google services will
keep access to the services, even in the long term?

B) the only effect fo the ban on current Huawei phones (old or currently being
sold) will be that updates will be stopped?

A is good news, but B is catastrophic. This means that the effects of this ban
will be to put Huawei customers at risk.

One thing is to prevent customers to access a given service. Another thing
completely different is to allow access to a service, and then let those same
customers down regarding security updates.

I hope that _at least_ security updates will be allowed.

~~~
NolF
Apparently they won't get CVEs ahead of time, so they'll have to patch them
themselves once they are made public.

------
bad_user
And this is the danger of having so much power concentrated in a single
country.

Google might not want to do this, but they might need to, because they are a
US company.

Unfortunately this affects everyone. Why should Europeans care about US’s
trade wars?

And don’t get me wrong, I would never buy Huawei devices because they are made
by a company owned by a communist party, but that’s my choice to make, not
that of some random US government that will be remembered as one of the worst
ones yet.

~~~
mandelken
Huawei is not owned by a communist party. Even google will tell you that
much..

~~~
kitchenkarma
Basically an owner is who can make key decisions about the "thing" in
question. If US government can dictate Google what to do, then Google is
partially government owned (Government shares profits and participate in
decision making by enacting legislation). Then same is with Huawei.

------
jbk
The Play Store and current Play Services, on the existing devices, sure.

Anything else, including OS security updates (the security they talk about is
Play Protect, not updates), or new major versions of Android (Q) for existing
devices, or other services that need hardware integration (wallet/pay?) is
probably out of the question.

------
codedokode
This case shows how "open" Android is and how free is "free trade".

------
zuron7
I'd be really happy if this leads to app developers making apps that can work
without Google Play Services.

~~~
rando444
Pretty much all android apps can work without google play currently.

If you don't want to use google play, you can download the APK from any number
of apk mirror sites and install the app yourself manually.

~~~
Matt3o12_
Google Play Services != Google Play Store

The play services is a framework that many (and probably all "western") apps
require because they use push notifications, maps, google ads and probably a
lot of other google services. An android phone without those services
installed isn't able to run said apps. And while it is possible to emulate the
play services, I don't think this would work on a huge scale because they
would still be accessing private google cloud apis and google could shut it
down very fast. You have to remember, Apps don't send your notifications to
your device directly, they send it to google, who then forwards your push
notification to the device (if every app would regularly pull an notification
server, your device would run out of battery way too fast).

The only reason google currently doesn't ban those emulations is that the % of
users who use those is so low that it doesn't cause them any harm.

~~~
jmkni
From a developer perspective, the Google Play Services are so damn convenient,
and they work well.

When it comes to push notifications in particular, I don't know of an
alternative which works quite as well as Firebase (if there is, please tell
me!)

It seems like developing apps without the Google Play Services will take
longer, and be more expensive. Maybe that's just psychological, but it's risky
to decide not to use them, especially when you are time constained/on a
budget, and you know how to use them etc.

~~~
zuron7
There isn't. I have had to self host Gotify to send myself push notifications
cos some proprietary apps do not have support to keep an always on connection
to the server.

------
edoloughlin
It's nice to know my Nexus 6p will continue to function, then. I dug it out of
a drawer a month ago and it updated. It can no longer see my WiFi. It can see
my neighbours' WiFi no problem, just not mine. Looking on the bright side, I
guess that means I don't need to worry about the Huawei baseband.

------
skc
Only reason I didn't buy another Huawei device when I lost my phone is that
there was a special on Xiaomi phones instead.

Looks like I dodged a bullet, for now at least.

------
HenryBemis
Money talk, bs walks.

Of course "Play store will continue to work". To use the Sex Pistols lyrics:
God save the queen, _' Cause tourists are money_, And our figurehead, Is not
what she seems.

Huawai may be 'evil' (or any other justification) but the money of the
millions of Huawei phone owners are more than welcome.

System update is a money-losing function. You get people to work and
collaborate with vendors, but this doesn't add to the bottom line what Google
Play Store adds.

Edit: added "the money of" phone owners...

~~~
product50
What is your point?

~~~
HenryBemis
That it makes perfect sense to stop supporting those devices. The effort costs
money. So if they want to put their foot down and force 'change' (and
everything else in the trade-wars/political agenda), you stop spending your
money on them, but you continue milking the profit from their users.

This is partially correct as a responsible business stance, because in the end
of the day, you support the users, who in the end of the day, are not at fault
for Huawei's bad doings.

And with that said, I do agree that China is in need of major democratic
reform that will never come, as the autocracy (I don't want to use a harsher
word). I also recognize the maladities that China has caused and is continuing
to cause.

This was not a pro-Chinese-gov message. This was a Google-loves-the-revenue-
and-the-foothold message.

------
King-Aaron
... For now

------
NotPaidToPost
This is really an appalling decision by the US government that brings us back
to the darkest days of colonialism and Western exploitation: Gunboat diplomacy
in full swing.

China is lucky to be too big to be actually bombed these days...

I think this will prove extremely significant because all the recent history
of China (last 150 years) has been about freeing themselves from that.

In the short term this decision will likely harm China but it will also make
them double down on developing their own tech and thus may end up hurting US
companies in the long term: When China doesn't need Google, Intel, etc. then
what leverage will the US have for blackmail? None.

Time is on China's side.

~~~
tekkk
Colonialism? Western exploitation? Really? I do not think that this was
necessarily a smart or moral choice by the US's part, but I guess they know
more about the issue than I do, based on which this action was made.

But I am curious how you can draw a line between alleged espionage accusations
and the need for the US to secure its own telecommunications networks by
forcing out a possibly hostile actor and colonialism? Protectionism yes, but
not colonialism. It really irritates me when people start extrapolating
hyperboles based on their own _emotions_ of how things are, with logical
reasoning only an afterthought to validate their raging desire to feel certain
way about something. The platform for doing that is Twitter or Facebook, not
HackerNews.

~~~
NotPaidToPost
Enough with repeating the official propaganda of "espionnage", etc. This is a
transparent pretext.

The real issue is the US facing the end of their status of top dog with the
rise of a superpower that does not answer to them (which is an emotive
subject).

It's no hyperbole to state that they are fighting for their empire and
resorting to gunboat diplomacy. Nothing less, nothing more.

This is an extremely sensitive, and indeed emotive, topic in China. People
should really realise the level of anger and long term effects this can only
have in China. Amd for what? Short term feeling of power for US...

~~~
tekkk
Perhaps so, and as my emotional input I'd still rather have a bad-democracy
ruling over the world as supposed to a totalitarian state. Actually I even
prefer China losing influence on global scale, what do you have to say about
that? Yet I still don't resort to over-extrapolation or forming my opinions
based on how I feel about the subject. My personal values do have a play on
how I view the world, but I try to be as unbiased about them as possible.

But I am curious how do you know so deeply Chinese emotional landscape? This
is a part of US's economical and political push-back against growing Chinese
influence, which you assume makes Chinese feel insulted? Sounds pretty
childish, that people would get such a strong feeling of hurt-pride when the
cause is purely a political power-play, and not at all a snub at China's
technological or other capabilities. On the contrary, I think this flatters
China that US fears Chinese influence so much that they feel this is a
necessary action for them to take.

~~~
yourbandsucks
Childish? Mobs of people regarding politics? You don't say.

I mean, would you say the US body politic has been acting particularly adult
lately?

Trump has painted himself into a corner with all the trade war stuff, the only
move he knows is escalation, and this is obviously a dumb idea.

Chinese companies are big enough to fork Android, and now they're supremely
motivated even if this were reversed tomorrow.

One more bit of influence down the drain.

~~~
tekkk
Can't argue with that, but I felt the original author I replied to took it way
too personally. US politics is a joke of a democracy and more so now that they
have elected a true buffoon as their president. I would argue as a nation,
Trump was one of the worst options they could have picked, but since they have
long since descended into tribality and unsound rhetoric I guess that's their
equilibrium (with Russian aid or not).

While I think the original idea of fighting Chinese influence is a relevant
point and much in the US's interest, it seems a little rash and foolish to
extend that animosity on Huawei's ability to use Google Android. Like,
seriously. If they are not using Android, they'll be using something else
which will, with high probably, be not American. Oh well, not my headache.

~~~
NotPaidToPost
The US are conducting themselves like a "rogue state" that they like accusing
others of being.

People should accept that and that being the rhetoric nothing has changed
since 200 years.

Clearly this requires to challenge one's belief, judging by the comments.

------
firekvz
Of course, where else they gonna get money from

~~~
nightfly
In the US Huawei has a tiny market share, and worldwide only about 8%.

[http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-
share/mobile/united-...](http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-
share/mobile/united-states-of-america)

[http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-
share/mobile](http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile)

~~~
busymom0
Is this site missing css for anyone else too?

~~~
busymom0
Seems like the css is missing for their mobile version of the site on iOS
Safari

