
Sanctimoniously self-made - baweaver
http://baweaver.com/blog/2014/10/18/sanctimoniously-self-made/
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MartinCron
_By listing so much on a requirement, you may well be scaring off some truly
brilliant people with a greater than average amount of modesty, a trait this
industry sorely needs more of._

Going a bit deeper on this, men and women tend to have a very different
threshold for applying to jobs when they don't meet 100% of stated
requirements. If, when you look around your team and see a bunch of self-
aggrandizing dudes, realize that is what your job listings and hiring
processes are optimizing for.

~~~
baweaver
OP here.

Which really gets me, and I mention it in another comment on site. It's
probably a good portion of the reason we don't have a great deal of women in
the tech industry.

They tend to have a lot more modesty on their resumes, and a nightmarishly
disturbing amount of impostor syndrome dragging them down like cinder blocks.
What's annoying is that without a woman on team, it legitimately feels like
you're missing something.

Put simply, we think differently, and that manner of different thinking is
critical to preventing some really unruly code and architectural patterns from
happening. I get worried every time I see an all-male team because there's not
that dissonance there to keep things more on the level.

~~~
Kalium
It's worth remembering that the number of women in the tech industry tracks
pretty well with the number of women in the tech industry training pipeline.

~~~
MartinCron
There are a lot of men in the industry who come from an alternative training
pipeline. Brash men without CS degrees (like me) have no problem applying to
listings having "CS or equivalent" as a requirement.

~~~
Kalium
And yet the net percentage of women tracks pretty well with that in the
training pipeline. So perhaps that doesn't skew things as much as you might
think.

~~~
MartinCron
I don't understand your (repeated) point. Are you defending the status quo?
Are you claiming that nothing done in industry matters?

~~~
Kalium
I'm saying that the gender gap manifests well before issues in industry can
reasonably be expected to take their toll.

Which is not to say that there are not major problems in industry. Just that
there are problems upstream of those.

EDIT: In other words, how you word a job posting definitely has an effect on
who applies. It probably doesn't have a huge effect on the decision of a
sixteen year old girl considering taking a computer course.

~~~
MartinCron
Got it. I read the story about applying to jobs with overbroad requirements
more of a "glass ceiling" thing than a "glass wall" thing. Even if you've got
a tech industry job, you might be less eager to try a lateral move.

------
Link-
People in general have an inherent need for 'heroes'. This need for an
idolized leader, the protector of all and the 'savior of humanity' has
manifested itself across the ages and I don't think there's a need to
enumerate the instances. This recurrent phenomena will not fade away soon. I'm
sure that in many cases these self-made achievers have thanked and
acknowledged those who got them there, whether in public or in private. The
problem is that the masses want only one hero and can only remember one.

Edit-- This might be relevant: [http://ed.ted.com/lessons/what-makes-a-hero-
matthew-winkler](http://ed.ted.com/lessons/what-makes-a-hero-matthew-winkler)

~~~
baweaver
Interesting point. Really it seems to be something ingrained in our mentality
that would take something truly significant to change.

~~~
Link-
I personally believe this is an evolutionary trait that has stuck with us
across the cycles. I can't find scholarly articles that discuss this topic at
the moment but I'm quite sure many have studied it.

