

Ask HN: College Advice - alecbenzer

tl;dr: incoming cs freshmen at uiuc. Is it worth transferring, what are my chances, I think I might have been able to fair better.<p>I'm an incoming cs freshmen at UIUC. UIUC was a bit of a safety for me (though in hindsight maybe it should've been a safety/target). My feelings about going there are really sort of mixed, for various reasons, and I'm, very idly at this point, considering possibly transferring to a different school.<p>1. Should I even bother? I'm very serious and passionate about going into CS - from what little I've seen of the school so far I'm fond of its overall student community and the CS community - the very fact that there is a noticeable CS community is something that's important to me, and part of why I picked UIUC over my other main option, NYU. Anyway, my point is that there are few schools that beat UIUC in CS anyway. In my mind, the places that are better than it for undergrad cs are MIT, Stanford, probably CMU, and possibly Berkeley - I think UIUC is better or at least on par with any other CS department, and none of the ones close to UIUC have other qualities (eg, being a better overall school) that would make me want to transfer there. So, given that those are my choices, should I bother transferring? I hear MIT and Stanford have very very low transfer accept rates. CMU and Berkeley seemed a bit more promising, but the figure I saw for CMU was overall, not for SCS, and I think I heard somewhere that Berkeley only accepts junior transfers. Are any of those departments better by enough to make it worth disrupting my time at UIUC and readjusting to a new place?<p>I have anecdotal bias against this: my dad had been rejected from Wharton as a high school senior and went to NYU. He was pretty happy there, had pretty good grades, liked the people, but he still wanted to try for Wharton and got in as a transfer. He then hated it at Wharton - it took him 5 years to graduate, his grades were pretty bad, and he couldn't get any jobs. He says he would've been much better off going to NYU, which was at the time pretty far behind Wharton for economics and business, what he was interested in. So I don't want this to happen to me - I don't want to leave somewhere I may be perfectly happy at and doing well in for a "better" school where I'll end up doing worse for unforeseen reasons.<p>2. What are my chances, at any of the places I mentioned (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Berkeley)? My junior GPA was a 3.933 - it's probably going to drop a bit from my senior year grades, but hopefully not too much. SAT was a 2270 (super score from 2 tests - 690r, 780m, 800w). If I begin to seriously consider transferring I'd probably retake them and actually study this time. SAT II math2c was an 800, chem was a 680 (I'll probably retake, and study this time). My ECs were okay, not terrific, hopefully I'll have some research or an internship at UIUC to talk about.<p>As far as how I faired this year: my two main choices were MIT and CMU - I got rejected at MIT and waitlisted at CMU (I know some people from this year and last who were about as or possibly less qualified than me who got in to SCS at CMU, but they had applied ED - I applied regular decision). I also applied to Princeton, Columbia, and Cornell kind of randomly (ie, without having shown any kind of interest in them) - got rejected from them. Like I mentioned, I also got in to NYU, and also to Rutgers. I had also applied to UMich and got wait listed, though I'd say that was probably because I applied right on the deadline and also had shown no interest - a friend of mine who did get into UMich (and had applied earlier) got flat out rejected from CMU (while I got wait-listed). I hadn't applied to Berkeley or Stanford. I doubt I would've gotten into Stanford, and relatively optimistic about Berkeley, based on how other people from my school faired.<p>Friends of mine were sort of surprised that I didn't get in to MIT and CMU. A friend of mine who did get into MIT had once told me: "You're definitely getting into CMU. I'm willing to bet that you will get into every school you applied, with the possible exception of Princeton." Me: "And MIT?" him: "No - you'll get in. I am 100% sure". He seemed pretty convinced at times that I was going to keep him out of MIT - ended up working out for him, though. A teacher of ours said to me (in private): "[MIT] took [him] and not you? Well, maybe they only wanted to take one person from our school" (which wasn't the case, but anyway). Another friend (the one who got in to CMU), also told me (after I had heard from my schools) that he had been sure I'd get into MIT. I'm mentioning this stuff just to explain why it's sort of in my head that I might want to try to transfer.
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gexla
As a web developer, I got started by being passionate in my field. I have
never gone to college though, so my advice is somewhat limited.

If I were to go to college today then I think I would either skip CS and go
into something like statistics or do something like a double major. My choice
would depend on how long I would have to spend in school vs. how quick I could
get out into the wild.

The idea here is that programmers who have some sort of niche specialization
are more valuable than those who are only programmers. If I'm passionate about
CS, then I can learn some of the subjects taught in CS on my own. Something
like statistics is not the same case, I would probably benefit from the more
structured framework.

Given a choice between self teaching a major, I would probably try teaching
myself the subjects taught in a CS major. Programming by itself is much more
vocational (and likely easier to self teach as a result) than something like
statistics. Programming is also relatively easy to prove competency through
publishing written code, working on open source projects and building a
reputation. I know that CS is a lot more than programming, but I think
learning the programming portion is good enough when combined with another
major.

I'm not sure about specific schools. I get the feeling like there are a
certain number of schools where the name will help sell its graduates and then
anything below that level is just relatively more money and not necessarily
more return. Another twist is that entrepreneurs and start-up workers may
never get asked about college degrees. Personally, I have never been asked for
a resume or college degrees.

~~~
alecbenzer
Well, down the line I think I might want to eventually become a CS professor,
so having a degree in CS is pretty important to me. I do do some web
development occasionally, and could see myself making money off of it for some
time, but I think/hope I'll ultimately be going into areas where a CS degree
is more important/relevant.

I also really value community; I tend to learn a lot from my peers and also am
often inspired by being around other intelligent people. Honestly, education
from coursework is only a part of what I'm looking for from college, and maybe
even a small part. I'm looking forward more to research opportunities and
being around people with similar interests and passions than I am just
attending classes.

And I'm interested in math, too, and was considering double-majoring in it,
but UIUCs system for double majors is kind of weird, and I might just end up
with a minor.

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kevinrpope
As I grew up in the same town as UIUC, I'm admittedly biased on this, but if
you're just looking to get a top-rate CS education, there aren't many better
options.

However, if you do end up putting in for transfers to other schools, you
should make sure you're not misusing homonyms in your essays. You consistently
used 'faired' in your post, where in the context you meant 'fared'. This would
likely be a huge red flag to anyone reading your entrance essays, and is akin
to saying something is a 'waist of time' or 'arrow-dynamic'.

Anyway, the point is that you're already enrolled in a top CS program. I know
a number of people who tried to transfer schools, and it rarely worked out as
they planned (similar to your dad's situation with Wharton) - as the new guy,
it's often difficult to break into set circles of friends.

~~~
alecbenzer
Ak - I'm bad with a lot of homonyms.

Also, just curious, why were you brought up in Champaign-Urbana? Did your
parents teach at UIUC or they just happened to live there?

~~~
kevinrpope
My dad grew up there, plus both my parents got their undergrad degrees at
UIUC.

If you're worried about having access to cool research, you can also apply to
be an intern at NCSA while an undergrad. I interned there while I was in high
school, so I know you don't need to be at any specific level of education for
them to take a look at you.

The homonym issue can be subtle, and I don't think many spell-checkers will
pick it up (maybe Microsoft Word, but I don't use that anymore). It might be
best to have someone you know who is more aware of these things have a look
through anything you send in with an application.

~~~
alecbenzer
Yeah, I tend to give college essays more care and review than I do posts on
hacker news.

~~~
kevinrpope
Best of luck with whatever you decide.

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joshu
UIUC is a top 10 CS school. Not sure you need to sweat it.

(CMU BS ECE '96 here)

Reading resumes, the right school helps but is not enough to get my attention
alone.

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logjam
Just find a place where you will be _happy_ for four years, and work and play
hard there...and try not to overanalyze. If I had my education to do over, I
wouldn't have worried about name recognition _whatsoever_ (it's just not that
important in the real world), and differences in what programs offer (or
don't) are _nothing_ compared to the drive to learn that you have (or don't).

~~~
alecbenzer
The thing is, though, that I find that my own drive is often affected by what
kinds of people are around me. I got into CS on my own, but I noticed my
passion for and skill in it developing a lot when I was around other people
who were strong in CS.

