

Web sucks and here’s how we can make it awesome - blubblyboo
http://www.presslabs.com/blog/web-sucks-how-to-make-it-awesome/

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Bahamut
This reads more like a ramble than something that resembles an argument of any
coherency. For example, why not assign some blame that the consumer hardware
technology is not up to snuff, or why bring in CoffeeScript as a counterpoint
to JavaScript's flaws, CoffeeScript having some arguably worse problems? The
JS examples are particularly contrived, since most serious developers avoid
many of the approaches, if not all, laid out in the code snippets.

~~~
ianamartin
Yeah, but he linked to the most epic internet take-down of any language
ever[0]. So, you know: points++

But the brief section on SQL is just weird. It's so completely awful that some
people invented a shitty way to not use it? That's the argument? Huh. Command
Lines must be completely awful because someone invented a mouse and some
pictures, and those are a shitty way to not use command lines.

[0]: [http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-
design/](http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/)

~~~
hashberry
Using PHP to give an example of why the Web sucks is like saying MS-DOS sucks
because of QBasic.

~~~
blubblyboo
True, but people associate it with web development. Do a university course,
most likely they'll teach you PHP. Contract someone to do a small site for
you, they'll probably use PHP. WordPress uses PHP and it's the foundation of
some of the most popular websites on the web.

Even if you want it or not, PHP is part of the web, de facto or not.

------
ozten
There were many superior hypertext systems BEFORE and after the WWW was
invented. The WWW is the only one that has had phenomenal adoption, probably
do to a bunch of "Worse is Better" factors.

The WWW is more widely adopted than any previous or subsequent user facing
technology.

Thought experiment: I think a Smalltalk image running on Smalltalk-80 bytecode
is a superior web. You think python3 scripts running on it's bytecode is a
superior web. How will we have bytecode interop and battle it out, until one
of these bytecodes wins and is the de-facto bytecode standard on the "better
web"?

Today, developers make Native apps using a mix of REST and other IP based
protocols. This makes more sense than sending around bytecode.

~~~
pekk
Do you think that making Native apps (e.g., using Objective-C) makes more
sense than sending around Javascript code?

There are many languages better than Javascript. I think it would be great if
Smalltalk fans could replace Javascript with Smalltalk, if I even had a real
option of using Smalltalk (and the differences between Smalltalk and Python
can easily be overstated). Even in the absence of a standard bytecode, I have
no problem with better things battling it out, as a way out of an artificially
maintained monoculture based on a language with unusually many and severe
design flaws.

Meanwhile, asm.js is presented as a bytecode which just happens to be a
horrible kludge. Why couldn't we have designed a proper bytecode, again?

I can drag my feet through Javascript because I have had to for years, as if
it were a temporary arrangement, but why does anyone feel happy to think that
we are going to have to deal with the same horrible decisions in 20 years? Can
I see something that even tries to be better just before I die, at least?

~~~
ozten
In many real world circumstances, I don't think building a native app makes as
much sense as building for the web.

However... every project has different constraints and opportunities. There
are situations where native apps make more sense.

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ta_8UgB54G
Yes, by all means, let's take the web, written in human readable languages
which anyone can study, and write, without much if any cs knowledge * and a
compiler, and replace it all with closed source, probably proprietary,
binaries.

That would be so much better. God forbid the web remain free when it can be
_clean._

* excepting javascript, but that's not exactly difficult, and hardly _necessary_ , as opposed to having everything written in, say, python.

~~~
blubblyboo
There's clean _and_ open source. Look at some of the nicer Linux distros.

~~~
ta_8UgB54G
I'm not entirely sure there's any large and complex C/C++ application which
would be considered 'clean' by any generally accepted standard.

And in any case, i'm not sure that requiring anyone who wants to put up their
own webpage to know how to write an OS level application necessarily leads to
a web with freer expression than exists now.

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hashberry
The Web was built to deliver interlinked hypertext documents and it succeeds
at this goal.

 _" I see two things that could help the web ... a standardized and modern UI
API, like any decent OS has, and a means of executing any other programming
languages on the client side."_

The author is trying to redefine the Web as an Operating System.

~~~
X-combinator
Really?

