
Ignore No More – lock your child's device until they call you back - juliann
http://ignorenomoreapp.com/
======
blueskin_
Products like this are great, as they teach children how to get around stupid
arbitrary restrictions from a young age, so are less likely to end up as
drooling passive consumers poking at a tablet and more likely to become
hackers.

~~~
austenallred
My mom installed a program on our computer when I was younger that only let
you use it for a limited amount of time (my limit was usually 30 minutes a
day).

We broke through that thing so many times that the company gave us a refund
and hired me as a "security contractor" to find ways around it. I found a few
that they never figured out how to beat - for example opening a document in
Word, typing some stuff, and telling the computer to shut down. Windows would
shut down all of the other programs (including the computer time monitoring
one) before it shut down Word. Word would come up with it's "save/don't
save/cancel" prompt and you could just click "cancel." That was arguably my
first foray into "hacking."

~~~
gwbas1c
It's because companies that sell products like this sell what makes a good
sales pitch; they don't understand that things need to actually work as
advertised.

------
dm2
If you thought your kids didn't like you before, wait until you install
something like this on their phone.

Emotions are weird, if you're sitting around worrying about your child then
you need a hobby. If it's really a problem that your child goes somewhere
without texting you if you asked them to then don't let them go out next time.
If they are in college and don't answer your calls, then leave them alone,
find something else to do, send them an email if you need to inform them of
something or have something you want to discuss.

Kids go through weird phases, they lash out at parents for different reasons
such as being unhappy with themselves or struggling to find purpose. Talk to
them in person, ask difficult questions, if they don't have an answer, ask
again later or ask different questions.

Be a good roll-model by being calm, rational, humble, and honest. I can
picture the mom who had the idea for this app, controlling, slightly crazy,
comes off as bitchy.

What if your significant other installed a similar app on your phone? Would
piss you off, right?

If you want to restrict the games kids play or the sites they visit on their
phones, that's probably for the better, be sure to inform them of the logical
reasons such as the fact that game companies exploit human psychology to
create addiction and many apps upload private information that could harm them
later in life. But locking their phones because they haven't called you back,
I just can't see how that'll do anything but harm in the long-run.

"Because I said so.", "Do as I say, not as I do.", "Say it, say I love you."

If you kid doesn't answer their phone they are either in class, busy, have it
on mute, in jail, dead, getting high, in a loud car, at a party with friends,
having sex, eating somewhere, or they just don't want to talk to you at the
moment. If they are in jail, they'll call you, if they're dead, then there is
nothing you can do about it, you'll find out soon enough. In every other
situation it's not that critical that you hear their voice, send them a text
message and find something to do.

It might just boil down to positive verses negative reinforcement.

Just my 2 cents about actually using this product as a parent. Looking at it
as an app idea, it's a good idea and looks well executed. I'm sure many
parents will purchase it.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _What if your significant other installed a similar app on your phone? Would
> piss you off, right?_ //

Attempting to equate spousal (or similar) relationships with parent-child
relationships suggests you either have no clue about how adults in such a
relationship should relate to one-another or you have no clue about parenting.

I've never said any of those unwanted idiomatic phrases but can still see a
place in which I would want a child who relies on me to buy their phone and/or
keep them safe to be coerced to respond to a contact request.

> _In every other situation it 's not that critical that you hear their voice_
> //

That doesn't appear to be the point of the app, the point is to coerce a
response instead of allowing a person to ignore you but keep using the phone
you purchased.

Suppose my child has absconded, ie gone off without telling me where they're
going, I'm about to start my shift at work. Do I miss work and try and find
them, or do I use this app and "force" them to respond indicating they're safe
& well? This app means you can give your kid a smartphone but enforce a usage
pattern coterminous with a single-number phone if required. Having a
smartphone isn't some sort of inalienable right for a minor.

If you're an adult (eg at university) then buy your own phone and refuse to
let people install apps on it; or not, your call.

~~~
Padding
> Suppose my child has absconded, ie gone off without telling me where they're
> going, I'm about to start my shift at work. Do I miss work and try and find
> them, or do I use this app and "force" them to respond indicating they're
> safe & well?

This is the equivalent of jerking a dog's leash. It's sad how ready some
parents are to deny their children basic human dignity.

If you need to get to work and can't find your child, then whether you go to
work or whether you run after your child is a simple matter of setting
priorities and following through. Also, if your child takes off without
telling you, and you have genuine reason to worry, then there's little reason
to think this app will actually be of any help.

The only situation in which this app would "help" would be one where the child
is not in any real danger/distress, but you'd still want to reassure yourself
of the non-existence of danger (i.e. just calm your nerves), but are too lazy
too actually take the steps necessary to do it properly. So lets trample that
little human's dignity, for our own selfish desires, since there's only little
they can do in return anyways, right?

This is disgusting.

The real tragedy here however is that children don't realize that they're
actually the ones with the power in any parent-child relationship, until
they've stopped being children and lost the respect for their parents. If they
grasped the amount of power they hold, and occasionally jerked their parents
around the same way, then these sort of apps most likely wouldn't exist.

~~~
true_religion
> This is the equivalent of jerking a dog's leash. It's sad how ready some
> parents are to deny their children basic human dignity.

Basic dignity? It's not their phones.

If you possess a work phone, and never respond to your bosses call there are
consequences: you get fired, lose your income, and may soon find yourself on
the streets in destitution.

If you possess a family phone, its not yours either and so you might expect
consequences if you don't respond to the owners of it.

The alternative to this app is just taking away the kids phone, or grounding
them (i.e imprisoning them). This is a bare slap on the wrist compared to all
that.

~~~
Padding
> It's not their phones.

No, it's not - because they have no sensible way for providing for themselves
and you have a legal obligation to provide them with the things they need for
everyday life.

The food they eat also isn't theirs, but that doesn't make it alright for you
to first spit into it, before serving it to them, in order for you to blow off
steam.

The roof over their head also isn't theirs, but that doesn't make it alright
for you to make them sleep on the street because you're too tired of them
keeping you up at night.

> If you possess a work phone, and never respond to your bosses call there are
> consequences

Not responding to calls on your work phone may result in you getting fired,
but it will not result in you being humiliated (at least not directly). From
what I've seen there's a fair amount of people not responding to some calls in
some situations as a way of playing the "office politics" game - so it seems
for many people this is a reasonable tradeoff they engage in at times in order
to advance their interests.

Also, for better or worse, there's no formal way to "quit" your family and go
be the child of other, possibly better, parents. Hence, parents don't really
compete on who's able to provide the best family. (Though for some reason some
of them seem to compete on who's got the most obedient child.)

> The alternative to this app is just taking away the kids phone, or grounding
> them (i.e imprisoning them).

The analogy is lacking.

There are humongous barriers to actually get someone into prison. Simply
talking back to someone, or failing to pay attention to them won't suffice to
land in prison, but may very well suffice for getting grounded. Also, there's
no due process for children when being grounded (There's not even any official
written record of the rules that can get you grounded). But then again,
grounding really is a very very mild version of imprisonment, so there's not
much issue with leaving it up the parents discretion - it's just that it's a
bad analogy.

But still, imprisonment, as you might have noticed, actually is a valid
disciplinary measure in modern societies and at every point throughout its
enforcement care is taken to protect the prisoner's dignity as a human. Of
course, in reality things aren't always that rosy everywhere.. but at least
the theory is sound.

Putting people on a leash, on the other hand, isn't a valid disciplinary
measure - or at least it hasn't been any more for quite some time in civilized
societies.

> This is a bare slap on the wrist compared to all that.

No, humiliating someone is not alright, regardless of circumstances.

If proper punishments need to be dealt out (like grounding), or proper
safeguards need to be put in place (like taking away the phone), then do that.

But deluding yourself that putting someone on a leash, because you feel that
the infraction doesn't actually warrant the punishment, but you're also too
lazy to actually educate your child on why not to do it again, or deal with
the consequences of it happening again, is not alright.

~~~
true_religion
I think you're being a bit hyperbolic if you say that locking someones cell
phone is the same as putting them on the leash.

You make a few valid points there, but in essence I think we disagree on the
severity of punishments.

I'd say being grounded is far worse than having your phone locked, yet you'd
call it a fair punishment that should come first.

I'd also say that a cellular phone isn't essential to life, like food is.
While you might see many middle/upper class children with phones, they're
still a luxury item.

------
jzwinck
Danger: the front page says the child will always be able to call "first
responders," but the FAQ reveals that 911 is the only built-in one which the
child cannot change. If you live outside the US, 911 may not work, leaving
your child unable to dial emergency services.

Adding 112 and 999 to the list would help, but perhaps it's better to just let
the kid call whomever they like, and just block "fun" things like texting and
other apps. After all, if your kid is out with friends and gets a bit lost,
the best person to call will be one of those friends, not the police.

~~~
ElliotH
Hilariously, there's actually nothing stopping the kid phoning whoever they
want. It's controlled by a contact group on the phone, that the child device
can edit at will. Step 1 would be to add all friends to that group.

~~~
sbierwagen
Kids don't use phones to make _voice calls_ , grandpa, for much the same
reason they don't use morse code, or smoke signals.

~~~
StavrosK
"Kids"? Hell, I'm 31 and the only people I ever call are my parents.

------
martiuk
The perfect app for helicopter parenting, be sure to tell your child you don't
trust them as they leave the door.

I'm sure this would be a good product commercially.

The FAQ is a bit jarring, most of it seems to be self praise.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _The perfect app for helicopter parenting_ //

Alternatively the perfect app to allow you to let your children have freedom
to go out by themselves but still to coerce response when it's needed.

It seems a reasonable _quid pro quo_ to me - I give you this tool which is the
pinnacle of consumer communication devices but if I need to talk to you then
it's locked until you respond.

Doesn't it mean that children who aren't so trustworthy get the benefit of
being allowed out when otherwise they wouldn't?

------
philbarr
What I find more interesting about this, besides the fact you can block your
kids' phones, is the amount of effort put into the creation and marketing of
it.

I mean - as far as I can tell [0] this is the only app this person has done,
but they've created the website, set up a company, and I even heard about this
on the UK BBC news! And at the moment they only have about 100 downloads?!

It would be interesting to hear the story behind this and how much this all
cost. Does anyone know more? How did they manage to get such exposure on
launch day/week?

[0] reading [http://ignorenomoreapp.com/mountaineer-technology-
ventures](http://ignorenomoreapp.com/mountaineer-technology-ventures)

~~~
quaffapint
They should sell their marketing services rather than this app. To get such
quick publicity for something like this, either they have great marketing
skills, a bunch of $, or both. Either way, it would be nice to see how they
did it.

------
fidotron
In my experience many adults (meaning everyone over 35 at this point) seem to
have an irrational attachment to phone calls, when texting or email would
suffice or be better. This is just a manifestation of that mentality. If you
encourage your kid to text you it's much more likely they'll communicate,
largely because it can be done quickly and discreetly.

Given the problems I've heard about with app store purchases from parents in
this target market there's zero chance of this actually working, and I'd be
surprised if any parent in the target group even believes it would work
either.

------
crunchcaptain
The developer must have hired a great P.R. company because yesterday our local
TV news was covering it. Now it's on HN!?!

Read the FAQ and you'll get an idea of the brains (or lack thereof) behind
this app: [http://ignorenomoreapp.com/faq](http://ignorenomoreapp.com/faq)

"Q: My child ignored my instructions and selected “OK” to the pop-up request
to “Disable Device Admin”. How do I restore Ignore No More on their phone?"

"A: I know, I know let me guess the child said, “It was an accident”. First
you need to check to see if Ignore No More is still on their phone. If it is
then that’s great news. All you have to do is select the device’s Settings
icon>Security>Device (or Phone) Administrators where you will then see an
empty box beside of Ignore No More Device Admin. Select the empty box; a pop-
up will appear, select “Activate”. Ignore No More is now restored on the
child’s phone. On the other hand, if the child deleted the app entirely from
their phone you will need to download again from the app store."

------
exodust
This app would put whatever rocky relationship I had with my mother on even
rockier ground.

The biggest flaw is that the child may not be ignoring the parent, but simply
can't call at that time. Perhaps the kid's phone is in their bag or they are
in class or something.

To lock the kid's phone based on an assumption of guilt is like punishing the
kid for not eating his vegetables before dinner is served.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Not to mention you may be preventing them from getting important help from
other sources.

------
rrrx3
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN, YOUNG MAN? WHY WERE YOU IGNORING MY CALLS?

 _checks GPS log, sees school_

 _does child 's homework for him_

 _applies to college for him_

 _goes on job interviews for him_

~~~
untothebreach
you forgot, _wipes butt for him_

~~~
rrrx3
I thought that was implied :)

------
walterbell
Ransomware improves parent-child communication?

Better: analytics dashboard on latency of response.

Suppression of emotional signals (response latency) is unlikely to improve
communication and could lead to second-order consequences "If you treat me
like ___, I will behave like ___".

------
DoubleMalt
I like these projects to get more children interested in hacking!

------
jacquesm
Kids will have to explain to their parents how to install it.

Or show them how they removed it.

------
inglesp
Shouldn't parenting be about trust?

~~~
blueskin_
Agreed.

Also, going to be funny when they work out how to uninstall it.

~~~
ElliotH
Hell, uninstalling is mild. Set the parent phone to a child phone and vice
versa, all you need is to guess that password. I wonder if it's the same as
their email account?

~~~
blueskin_
From their FAQ, looks like that would need you to deregister and reregister
the phone. Still, as in my experience most parents (mine and others I'm
familiar with) leave their phones lying around without a password so much of
the time (or else likely use weak ones such as their date of birth or
similar), that isn't exactly hard.

I've also accidentally shoulder surfed dozens of random people's (patterns on
android are particularly easy as by default it shows the full trace; ios7 is
also easy as the buttons are very high contrast) where I had zero intention to
just because they aren't careful about who can see the screen when they
unlock.

Of course, given the poor security of so many mobile apps, I wouldn't be
surprised if there's a way to reverse engineer the protocol to lock a 'parent'
phone. Then, of course, the child can feign ignorance with "but I thought that
wasn't possible".

------
cpwright
Or you take their phone away when they don't call you back; or ground them. It
seems to me that having an enforced version of that won't actually promote
responsible behavior as much as more traditional punishments.

------
taternuts
This is ridiculous - really more like "Teach your child how to jailbreak his
device". I know this holds true of me, but I truly can't stand talking on the
phone with anyone - I much prefer just a simple text message. My parents/baby-
boomers can't stand this, in my experience - for some reason they need the
actual call. I think this would be more effective if it unlocked after a text
message back.

------
hluska
It's very rare that an app inspires as much rage in me as this one has. I'm
not sure if it is the over the top self praising tone of the FAQ, or the fact
that this will be such an amazing tool for abusive parents, or the fact that
this is a great way to condition children to obey unconditionally, but
seriously, this app makes me irrationally angry.

Some parents are assholes. Some kids have other things going on and don't need
a helicopter constantly hovering over top of them. And some media outlets need
to learn to be critical of the crap that they flog.

Even if the FAQ included some child abuse/help lines, I'd be significantly
less angry. But seriously, this app looks like a red flag for extraordinarily
controlling parents. And, there is a bunch of research that indicates
extremely controlling behaviour is a sign of abuse. What if, as an entire
industry, we decide to always err on the side of protecting kids??

Sorry for the rant. I've edited this several times to tone things down, but
this app makes me intensely angry. If there is any justice, the app store will
remove this garbage.

------
anotherevan
I often feel when reading discussions about parenting that posters should be
required to list the number and ages of their children. If you're spouting off
about how terrible and awful this is, lack of trust, etc, etc, and you haven't
been there, your opinion on the matter has a value approaching zero to a
stressed out parent.

That said, I don't think this is the greatest of ideas, but I can see cases
where it could be a useful tool in parenting. And it is a tool, not a solution
that replaces an open dialogue with your kids. Grayclhn said it best[1]: "Of
course, a parent could also install an app like this as part of a long process
of discussion and negotiation wherein the child repeatedly blows off
commitments to check in, blows off even lenient curfews, and struggles to hold
up his or her side of the agreement."

Agreed that it is something that is ripe for abuse and helicopter parenting.

(Parent of girl 15, boy 12.)

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8197401](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8197401)

------
ck2
I find the negativity about this surprising.

I live in a low income area - you would wish many parents around here cared
this much and would helicopter their kids. I fear many of them are doomed from
the start.

I think this app is a last resort measure, not like a block on computer use
but if the kid is being bad about something to get them to respond.

~~~
nknighthb
Being controlling is not the same thing as caring.

------
steventhedev
While it's nice to see other applications using the Device Administrator's
API, I fail to see what advantage this provides over Google's implementation
[1].

[1]:
[https://www.google.com/android/devicemanager](https://www.google.com/android/devicemanager)

------
xg15
_Q: Why won’t the message “Ignore No More!” go away once my child has used the
password to unlock their phone?

A: Don’t worry their phone is unlocked. “Ignore No More!” stays visible to
your child to help you. The message is a constant reminder to them to answer
your calls and texts or else you will lock their phone. If you don’t want to
use this feature and want the message to go away, simply open up the parent My
Household page and press “Unlock Phone” for that child. Once the child
refreshes their screen the message will be gone._

If you market to helicopter parents, that's one thing. If you market to
parents who actively enjoy being mean to their children, you should maybe
overthink your business model.

------
jasonkester
Language is weird, and it's always interesting to see the way people spell
things that they've only ever heard, often picking completely different words
to construct sentences that sound kinda right but don't actually make any
sense with the words they've used (there's a guy here who says "properly"
whenever he means to say "probably" for instance).

This is the first time I've seen anybody substitute their own made up word
(notta') for nada though.

------
tux3
Wow that's disgusting.

------
tinco
Looks great! one thing, you have a nice carousel going on, and maybe I'm a
slow reader but I had to make it go back to the last slide three times before
I finished reading it. Consider either making the carousel change slower or
better yet, make the story vertical.

------
murbard2
Another way to do it would be to stop offering a free phone plan, or free rent
for that matter. What kind of self respect do you have if you're letting a
teenager whose lifestyle you're subsidizing treat you like this?

------
rational-future
Hmmm, here's a business idea - install the app on as many phones as you can
(remote exploits, free apps in stores) and demand monthly payments to keep
them unlocked.

------
dataminded
The solution to poor parenting is not an app.

~~~
yourad_io
but it could be PaaS

------
michaelmior
I haven't tried it, but isn't this trivial to disable by just booting into
safe mode and uninstalling the app?

~~~
blueskin_
Yep. With root, you can even just disable administrators without allowing them
to hijack the attempt.

Actually, letting apps hijack the normal disabling of their administrative
functions is a massive vuln, as then any piece of malware can do that to
prevent it from being removed.

The funny thing is, Android's safe mode isn't that well publicised (I knew it
existed, but would have to look up how to enter it), but if apps like this
ever proliferated, it definitely would become well known. See how in the UK,
since TPB got censored, there are now literally hundreds of reverse proxies
available, and since the government pushed 'opt-out' censorship, there are now
dozens of proxies explicitly marketed for defeating them, and more and more
sites are switching to use TLS.

------
jpfielding
if you have this problem with your child, an app is not the solution. you have
serious discipline problems.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
I agree the app isn't a solution to disicpline problems, but the problem of a
child not calling back is not really a discipline issue. If you have proper
trust and be sure to not over-check the child, this isn't as much of an issue
- 'hey, that's my mom, she doesn't usually call, i better answer this' is Very
easy when the kid has proof. It is also pretty easy to talk to a child to see
why they might not have called back and explain why answering from parents is
important It also seems that perhaps parents should try switching to text or
whatever the child's preferred method of communication - being flexible might
bring better responses. None of this is due to actual discipline problems,
just miscommunication or inflexible parenting.

~~~
aurelius
I don't think you or jpfielding have any real experience raising kids. That's
pretty clear from your smug assumption that children are reasonable people who
will see the error of their ways if only their parents took the time to
explain it to them and pander to whatever way the child wants to go about
subverting parental authority.

Let me clue you into reality. When kids pop out, they are uncivilized savages.
It takes a good 25 years (on average) before they stop acting like savages and
start resembling a reasonable human being. A reasonable person does not
require an explanation as to why answering a call from a parent is important,
they just answer it because they are reasonable and civilized and know
automatically that answering such a call is the right thing to do in the
civilized world. A reasonable person also does not require others to pander to
their "preferred method of communication", they just pick up the phone and
deal with whatever's on the other end.

Teenagers with phones are like hungry cavemen with shotguns. There has to be a
way to pull the plug before things get out of hand and dumb stuff happens.
This app is part of the solution. If a teenager's trumped up, uncivilized
sense of independence is telling them to disrespect their parents and not
answer their call, then this app is a useful tool for parents. The correct
mode of operation, of course, is to prompt the child to call their parents so
the parents can then tell the child that they're coming to pick them up
immediately, and to have the phone ready to hand in because they're never
going to see it again. The child should also prepare to have their wings
clipped.

Unreasonable savagery can not be made civilized through reasonable discussion.
That's why economic sanctions, bombs falling from airplanes, and smartphone
crippling apps are still effective tools for civilized people.

~~~
xorcist
It's strange. Everyone who's had a child is an expert on parenting.

Yours is just one data point. Here's another: it's perfectly possible to
actually trust teenagers without regarding them as savages, while still
catching the bad stuff that inevitably happens.

Different cultures tend to raise their kids differently. Many North American
disciplinary actions are downright illegal here. Our kids still turn out fine.

~~~
aurelius
Oh, look! Another Hacker News pedant come to pick meaningless holes in
someone's comment.

I didn't say I was an expert on parenting. Did I?

Did I also say that teenagers are always and everywhere uncivilized savages?
No. I made one over-the-top statement equating teenagers with cavemen, so I
guess that's worth pointing out because it obviously proves that my entire
comment was wrong, especially since that one statement can't be applied
universally across time and space. Jeez...

Look, I've seen more than a few reasonable teenagers, but that's only because
I roll with orthodox Catholics who actually believe what the Catholic Church
teaches (without whining about it), and believe it's important to teach their
kids how to be civilized. It's noteworthy that those teenagers only have
dumbphones, if they have a cellphone at all.

So what if different cultures raise their kids differently? How does that
negate anything I said? The children of one culture are born just as
uncivilized as the children of any other culture. Civilization comes only from
hard work. If you're a parent, imparting civilization to the uncivilized
requires the right tools. If you're ok with giving your kid a smartphone, then
it makes sense to have a tool to reel them back in when they can't resist the
urge to abuse the freedom you've given them.

So, go take your pedantic inability to reason clearly, and participate more
fully in whatever culture of deficient civility into which you were
unfortunate to be born. I'm sure it'll turn out fine.

~~~
pedrosorio
"I've seen more than a few reasonable teenagers, but that's only because I
roll with orthodox Catholics who actually believe what the Catholic Church
teaches"

Today, like in the 1500s, Catholicism saving the world from the "uncivilized
savages". Hilarious.

~~~
aurelius
That's right. In all of history, the single most civilizing influence on the
world has been the Catholic Church. Even with all the abuses and excesses, I
don't think this can reasonably be denied.

------
diminoten
I should come out with an app that disables this app, and charge something
like $5 for it.

------
lttlrck
Somewhat surprising there is no Facebook backlash yet... this is a horrible
product.

------
StavrosK
Hah, the FAQ reads like you're trying to keep pests out of your house.

------
ck2
Very very clever. Grew up before mobile phones existed so it is hard to relate
but I guess if a kid has to have a phone, this helps.

Of course nothing stops the kid from lying to their parents which I guess 99%
of all kids do.

