
The food industry’s new favorite protein source: peas - pseudolus
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-14/the-mighty-pea-is-everybody-s-new-favorite-plant-based-protein
======
LordHeini
Is it only me or is this whole preprocessed food stuff the most American thing
ever?

Why has everything to be some powder in a bucket or some goop in a tube?

It is so strange that people replace animal products with chemistry.

I can understand not to eat animal based products on moral or environmental
grounds but replacing those with Monsanto soy and chemistry does not strike me
as the proper way to do it.

Do you think the bucketized bean protein powder extracted from peas might be
bad for you? Well eat the freaking peas I bet those taste better as well.

~~~
jjjensen90
The tone and content of your post are both unhelpful and needlessly
dismissive.

American has a rich, diverse, and passionate food culture that includes many
whole foods and innovations created there. A lot of processed food is eaten,
but so are a huge variety of unprocessed foods.

Replacing animal products with plant protein (beyond burger, impossible
burger, many others) is an excellent trend for many reasons, with the
potential environmental impact being the foremost benefit in my opinion. I
look forward to the day where lab grown and/or plant protein sources are much
more mainstream.

And lastly, "Monsanto soy and chemistry" is a ludicrous implication that plant
based protein sources are somehow inherently scary or even that they're worse
than mass-agriculture raised animal products.

~~~
LordHeini
I never intended to imply that there is no rich american food culture there
certainly is.

The point still stands. Why would you replace a meal made out of plants with
basically the same plants run through a blender and their ingredients
extracted by some odd process? Especially if there are concerns regarding the
health implications this might entail.

An yes those genetically modified plants are somewhat scary not only for the
plants themselves but the awful business practices of the companies producing
them. I never said that antibiotics laden mass animal production is any
better.

I hope that the eating habits would change towards less animal products. Which
would make much more sense then replacing those with artificial products for
basically no reason other than habit.

~~~
Fnoord
The word 'artificial' is, well, basically bullshit. There's no such thing as
'artificial' (or 'natural'). It all boils down to molecules and atoms, in the
end.

What matters is (lack of) toxicity, harmful, LD50, food safety. 'Artificial'
however does not and should not imply any of that.

As for

> Is it only me or is this whole preprocessed food stuff the most American
> thing ever?

I wouldn't say so. There's innovation regarding this throughout the world.

On top of that, cutting down on meat saves the environment. Is saving the
environment an American thing...?

I'd wager that fast food is mostly an American invention, but it got picked up
throughout the rest of the world. Like preprocessed food it isn't good or bad
per definition.

~~~
forgotmypw
The difference between natural and artificial is the difference between
substances we've been exposed to, and thus evolved to deal with, for millions
of years, and ones which are completely new to us, and we are essentially
beta-testing on our bodies.

Of course, the official meaning of the world "natural", as it relates to the
list of ingredients on a package, has been diluted to be meaningless, as you
say.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Of course, the official meaning of the world "natural", as it relates to
> the list of ingredients on a package, has been diluted to be meaningless, as
> you say._

It's been restricted to be meaningless, IMO. If we go by your definition of
artificial, then a lot of what doesn't qualify as "natural" on food labels
isn't artificial either. Many "chemicals" added to food are substances that
we've evolved to deal with. GMOs in particular aren't artificial by this
definition, as they're mostly about making some food contain stuff that was
previously found in other food.

------
lemming
My family has been trialling various alternative meats recently, and one we
liked was the Sunfed chicken-free chicken, made here in NZ. Pea protein is the
main ingredient. Their advertising claims that people can't tell the
difference between it and real chicken, which I find hard to believe, but it's
not bad and it basically serves an equivalent function to chicken for me - it
soaks up whatever tasty thing I'm covering it with and gives me a bunch of
protein (much more than real chicken, actually). It's not like actual chicken
is really super tasty unless you smother it in something yummy.

~~~
code_duck
I cook whole chickens frequently. People make the mistake of cooking boneless
chicken breasts, which are the most flavorless in every way possible. If I eat
some white meat at about 3-4 hours of simmering it’s fairly dull, but other
parts are more flavorful. Then after about 12 hours it all becomes quite rich
tasting. Only seasoning needed is salt.

~~~
tomp
Serious Eats disagrees with you - apparently chicken breast makes for the most
_chicken-tasting_ stock (though thinner than using bones or wings). Unless of
course you meat "cooking" as in _just_ chicken breast (not soup).

 _> Instead of tasting flavorless and washed out, the chicken breast produced
the cleanest-tasting stock, with the most intense chicken flavor. But it also
produced the thinnest stock in terms of body.

> The thigh meat also produced a light-colored stock, but it had a muddier,
> less clean flavor than the breast stock.

> The wings produced the stock with the most body, which makes sense, given
> the number of cartilage-rich joints in each wing. But the flavor was also
> not as chicken-y as that of the breast stock.

> Bones also made a stock with a less distinct chicken flavor, but they
> contributed some bass notes that were pleasant.

> The whole chicken produced a middle-of-the-road stock: not as tasty as the
> chicken breast stock, but not as muddy as some of the others. _

[https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/10/how-to-make-rich-
flavorf...](https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/10/how-to-make-rich-flavorful-
easy-chicken-stock.html)

~~~
code_duck
But what is a chickeny flavor? I think the article refers to quality of
flavor, and I’m referring to intensity and richness. Their conclusion makes
sense, that stewing a whole chicken would be like an average of all the parts.
The article uses a pressure cooker, which I haven’t tried.

I read some articles like this when I started out making bone broth. Wing
broth is this way, thighs are another, they said, etcetera. Since my goal was
bone broth I didn’t consider boneless breasts - turkey breasts are great,
though. Since my goal was health and allergy avoidance, I went for whole
chickens as they’re my ally processed.

I’m mainly now basing my analysis on plucking parts of that whole chicken at
different times. Sometimes when I’m hungry I’ve bought a breast or two, boiled
it, and compared to the normal stew I make, it was rather flavorless. I
haven’t tried extended simmering, I admit.

Surely this is opinion-based, but my belief is that making soups or saucey
dishes from chopped up chicken breast with no bones is much less rich than
from a whole chicken stewed overnight. Countless grandmothers through history
would likely agree.

------
acconrad
Pea protein is incredibly chalky and earthy. It's a tough one to stomach. The
other thing that people don't realize is that peas are incredibly high in
iron. So much so that you actually need to watch your intake or you'll get way
too much iron. As an example, 1 scoop of pea protein powder, roughly 20-25g of
protein, will also provide 40% of your RDA of iron. An 8oz ribeye steak
(something people generally think is very high in iron) only has 20% of your
RDA of iron with 40g of protein.

~~~
mhb
The iron comparison is slightly misleading since the steak contains ~40% of
heme iron vs. none in the pea protein.

Heme iron is more readily absorbed (20% - 30% absorbed) than non heme iron (5%
- 12% absorbed).

~~~
YUMad
Not to mention comparing a dry concentrate to a raw ingredient.

------
transreal
I like Ripple's plain un-sweetened pea milk. It's got a thick consistency and
while not actually tasting like milk, doesn't have the "off" plant flavors
like soy or almond milk.

I use it as a milk substitute in coffee/tea/hot chocolate and it tastes pretty
good.

I also like the Just egg free mayonnaise, that one really tastes just like
mayo.

------
vfc1
The science seems to point in the direction of whole plant foods, without any
processing.

As an example, peas themselves are likely very healthy, but pea extracts like
protein powder and pea-based fake meats are likely not.

This reductionistic nutritional approach where we are trying to extract from a
food the one compound that makes it healthy simply does not work.

The food has thousands of compounds, that interact with each other in
thousands of different ways. It's not the fiber either, that is another
reductionist view, it's the whole food.

Just take a bunch of veggies, put them in the microwave for 10 minutes without
any water and add your favorite seasoning: balsamic vinegar, tahini, miso
paste, something sweet, and eat the whole food as it comes from the grocery,
as fresh as possible.

You can do this to carrots, onions, broccoli, potatoes, onions, garlic,
eggplant, pumpkin, butternut squash, almost any vegetable will steam in the
microwave without any added water.

You can do this to pears and apples also, they are delicious in the microwave.
Add beans, lentils, seeds, oats with red fruits for breakfast, and you are
good to go.

The move to consuming more plant-based foods is a step in the right direction
in terms of public health, but I'm a bit afraid of the backlash that will
inevitably come when studies start coming out saying that these highly
processed plant foods are not exactly healthy either.

~~~
andrewksl
What evolutionary advantage would plants have to be healthy for humans when
eaten as a whole food? Even agriculture, the start of which is a mere blip on
an evolutionary time scale, would be enough to destroy any symbiotic
relationship (which, AFAIK has never been tested let alone proven).
Agriculture tends to select for flavor/taste and not long term health
benefits.

Also, are tahini and miso paste not processed foods? Does heating food not
modify a food's chemical makeup?

~~~
sonar_un
Well, tahini is just blended sesame seeds and miso paste is just fermented
soybeans and rice. Hardly what I would call processed in a modern sense.

~~~
azeotropic
Would you consider these more or less processed than butter, yoghurt, cheese,
peanut butter, pickles, or chocolate? Why?

~~~
HeadsUpHigh
The same or similar. Well, chocolate is probably more. The point OP is trying
to make is that yogurt has most of the stuff found in milk( different yogurts
vary of course). But e.g. eating greek yogurt is way better than whey isolate.

------
chepaslaaa
Split green peas are a big element of survival in my dirtbag mountaineer diet
along with oats, eggs and peanut butter.They kick ass.

~~~
pen2l
When you say 'dirtbag mountaineer diet', do you mean it's the diet you observe
when you're climbing a multi-day mountain? Oats, eggs, PB, and SGP is what you
take in your bag, to cook, when you are climbing?

~~~
twoheadedboy
Dirtbagging refers to those who are usually living in a van or something
similar in and around climbing areas. So no, not up on the wall.

~~~
Phithagoras
Not necessarily true. Split peas, peanut butter, rice, oats, chocolate chips
and powdered milk are awesome food, whether on the ground or on the wall. They
don't freeze in winter, they don't go bad when its hot, you don't need to wash
your pot with soap, you can soak them for hours so you need only cook them for
a few minutes. These make for ideal characteristics when on a multi-day climb.
They're also cheap so dirtbags eat that same stuff when they're not on a big
climb. Saves a lot of money.

------
simonebrunozzi
Serious question for healthcare/nutrition/chemistry experts: how healthy, or
not healthy, are milks based on alternative protein and fat sources? e.g.
Ripple's pea milk.

Is there any good, easy way for a consumer to know that a particular
alternative milk has been produced in an ethical, healthy way?

~~~
internet_user
Most allergens are plants. There is even a fruit-vegetable syndrome. LTP
syndromes are from proteins that are heat resistant and at times become even
more allergenic after processing/cooking. Allergies to nuts are often life
threatening.

But nobody is allergic to meat.

Buy the stock in whoever is making EpiPens.

~~~
fian
People can definitely be allergic to meat (animal protein):

[https://allergyfacts.org.au/allergy-anaphylaxis/food-
allerge...](https://allergyfacts.org.au/allergy-anaphylaxis/food-
allergens/mammalian-meat-allergy)

[https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/ConditionsAndTrea...](https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/ConditionsAndTreatments/shellfish-
and-fish-allergies)

~~~
internet_user
There are even people who are literally allergic to water. However, the number
of such people in practical terms is zero.

------
microcolonel
> _It’s become a hot commodity, but is there enough of it to meet demand?_

Come on Bloomberg, you know the answer to that question is yes. It doesn't
take a decade to ramp up garden pea production, the plants grow readily from
seed.

------
forthispurpose
oh god it's the most disgusting of all proteins. can anyone really consume it
without any additives? I thought hemp protein was pretty bad, but oh boy does
pea take the crown.

Rice protein tastes ok (a bit like mushrooms), but casein and of collagen
protein are the only ones that are actually tasty by themselves, just diluted
with water.

I really really wanted to like pea protein, but calling it wet cardboard is
really doing a disservice to the wet cardboard cuisine.

I fear with this kind of campaign behind it it will now find its way to the
majority of shakes and meals and the taste will be just everywhere.

~~~
keyle
Being forced to be lactose free... I can tolerate pea protein with powdered
fiber, 2/3 lactose free milk and 1/3 water.

But it took me a few weeks to 'enjoy it'. YMMV.

I mean the alternative, rice protein is absolutely :vomit_face:

On the positive side pea protein will keep you 'regular' ;)

~~~
colechristensen
Honest question: why don't you just eat peas and drink water?

~~~
keyle
Pea protein is in really high concentration to have that much protein in a
drink. It's also so refined that the fructose in the pea won't be a problem to
digest.

------
viburnum
I kinda like pea protein, but you know what’s really great? Fresh peas!
They’re delicious.

~~~
lemming
This protein doesn't come from the green peas that most of us are used to,
they come from the yellow split pea variety. It's a while since I ate them as-
is, but I recall them tasting more like lentils than green peas.

~~~
fsloth
I thought yellow split peas are just dried peas? Wikipedia seems to think so
too.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_pea](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_pea)

~~~
lemming
They're dried, but I thought they were also usually field peas
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea#Field_peas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea#Field_peas)).
However it looks like they're actually yellow peas, which are still not the
green ones that most people are used to. I don't know how different they are
when they're fresh though, I've never seen fresh yellow peas or dried green
ones.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea_protein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea_protein)

------
ycomagfarm
I've come across water lentils (also known as duckweed or lemna) in a growing
number of products. A hydroponic solution, but interesting nutritional
profile. Bringing it up due to the fact the crop doubles in size every day.
Not sure if it can be used in burgers but there's no shortage of plant protein
supply anywhere.

~~~
chrisweekly
"the crop doubles in size every day"

for a brief spell, that is. otherwise it'd be jack's freakin beanstalk!

~~~
jsilence
Well, until it hits water surface boundary limits aka fully covered lake.

------
rsynnott
I’m not sure how new this is. I mean, people have been using yellow split peas
in daals etc for, I assume, basically forever. They’re not exactly an
innovative source of protein.

------
tyopiuy
What’s the result of the non pea-industry sponsored studies on fart production
for peas vs other protein sources ?

~~~
mxuribe
If cow farts contribute to greenhouse gas emission throughout the world
currently [0], what would happen if humans begin to emit ever more gas as a
consequence of a significant increase in gas-producing diets (e.g. pea-based,
etc.)??? (Only half-joking of course!)

[0] = [https://www.cattlefeeders.ca/project-clean-cow-reducing-
catt...](https://www.cattlefeeders.ca/project-clean-cow-reducing-cattle-
methane-emissions-half)

------
heederk
If pea protein constitutes a large portion of your protein intake, aren’t
anti-nutrient phytates still a concern?

~~~
paulcole
What issues do anti-nutrient phytates cause and how long does it take the
effects to become apparent?

~~~
Spooky23
Some info: [https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/anti-
nutrients/](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/anti-nutrients/)

"Phytates (phytic acid) in whole grains, seeds, legumes, some nuts—can
decrease the absorption of iron, zinc, magnesium, and calcium. [2,3]"

You'll see in a few years when people with these weird supplement focused
diets get older different complications. When you don't drink milk, and don't
eat meat, don't eat eggs, and rely on a couple of proteins, you're going to
have issues due to calcium and iron issues, especially if you are a woman.

~~~
_31
Thanks for linking this, it was an interesting read. One thing that stood out
to me was a paragraph towards the bottom of the article:

> "Studies on vegetarians who eat diets high in plant foods containing anti-
> nutrients do not generally show deficiencies in iron and zinc, so the body
> may be adapting to the presence of anti-nutrients by increasing the
> absorption of these minerals in the gut. [3]"

I do wonder how that differs with individuals on a vegan diet who don't eat
any animal products.

~~~
User23
Homeostasis is really quite incredible.

------
mgarfias
its in all high end dog foods.

that are killing dogs (degenerative cardiomyopathy).

------
CREwert
What happened to peanuts? eggs? Dead cow? Those are proteins; peas are what I
put in my food so my wife wont steal it.

~~~
code_duck
Peanuts are legumes, like peas, but present far more problems with allergies.
Eggs are far more resource intensive to produce than peas and also present
ethical problems (e.g. what to do with male chicks - throw them alive in a
grinder or suffocate them?). Cow production has similar issues, like water
usage.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
> what to do with male chicks - throw them alive in a grinder or suffocate
> them?

Let them grow to adulthood and then eat them?

~~~
ovi256
Like most adult male animals, they taste terrible and stringy. Even pre-
industrial societies didn't bother rearing male animals for meat.

------
MagicPropmaker
I eat some pea protein products, like "Pea Milk" and some veggie burgers, but
it always tastes like peas to me. OK in a burger, but not so much in milk.

It's a shame that wheat protein has been demonized. It's a very "neutral"
protein, and can substitute for meat well.

~~~
code_duck
As someone with celiac, wheat protein is absolutely demonic. With 1% of the
population suffering from celiac and up to 5 times as many from gluten
intolerance, which can be very serious, the less wheat and barley, the better.
Other proteins don’t have their very own autoimmune disease.

~~~
hdfbdtbcdg
I'm curious if celiac and gluten intolerance are so common because grain
proteins are so common? If pea protein ends up everywhere will a significant
proportion of the population end up at risk from it as well?

~~~
code_duck
Peas, lentils and beans are already quite common and don’t seem to pose a
major allergy or immune hazard. Some people have soy allergies and
intolerance, although problems with milk are far more common. Peas appear to
provide many of the benefits of those foods without the drawbacks.

There is no other disorder like celiac disease. It’s the only autoimmune
disease with a known trigger, which happens to be a food. There’s no way peas
would begin to do that.

It is possible to have a rare allergy to soy or other foods that causes a
delayed reaction with intestinal changes similar to celiac - I don’t recall if
it’s type ii or iv food allergies.

------
coldtea
Let's cheer for the latest fad of the industry of the annual fad, who has made
the planet obese, churning increasingly nutrient-less [1], and taste-less [2]
food-stuff to our tables, all the while sponsoring spin research ("breakfast
is the most important meal of the day", "fat is bad for you", etc).

[1] aside for injecting its products with the nutrient fad of the year, e.g.
this or that vitamin, omega-3, extra fiber, etc

[2] except for the nuance-less taste buds of teenagers and teen-adults hooked
on sugar and salt

~~~
sridca
> Let's cheer for the latest fad of the industry of the annual fad, who has
> made the planet obese, churning increasingly nutrient-less [1], and taste-
> less [2] food-stuff to our tables, all the while sponsoring spin research
> ("breakfast is the most important meal of the day", "fat is bad for you",
> etc).

Well, the industry cannot be blamed for what is ultimately the consumer's
fault in uncritically adopting strange beliefs about food, as hilariously
demonstrated by this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLk5AAKRem8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLk5AAKRem8)

~~~
coldtea
> _Well, the industry cannot be blamed for what is ultimately the consumer 's
> fault_

I, for one, can blame those with (a) the profit motive, (b) fake sponsored
studies and articles, (c) knowingly selling bad foodstuff, over those
misinformed and bombarded with ads, targeted by food chemistry to make crap
more addictive, and so on, that suffer the consequences...

~~~
sridca
Sure, you can blame them all you want, however blaming won't change anything.

As long as consumers remain gullible -- as evidenced by even the otherwise
intelligent folks here defending plant-based food (highly processed to boot)
and casually demonizing meat -- so will continue them being taken advantage of
by all sorts of groups.

