
Google Hangouts goes HD - Kilo-byte
https://plus.google.com/+VicGundotra/posts/XY9GGhBCPKP
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nrivadeneira
I think more interesting than the HD is the fact that they're dropping H.264
for the open sourced VP8

[http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/google-hangouts-
upgra...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/google-hangouts-upgrading-to-
hd-video-chat-switching-to-vp8-webrtc/)

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jrabone
...thus pissing off everyone using Hangouts for tech support to people who are
only ever going to have Internet Explorer installed. Thanks a bunch, Google.

I really want to crack some skulls together over the state of video
compression codecs and OS support. Same thing happened with all the circle-
jerking about HTML5 video - Flash had AS STANDARD a bunch of useful codecs
(eg. Screen Video) for which there is no HTML5 good replacement if you want to
do a lossless screencast.

~~~
devx
If IE will ever support WebRTC, then they'll have to support VP8, too, which
is the standard codec for WebRTC.

So how about Microsoft moves quicker in adopting open standards, instead of
backing proprietary ones, or dragging their feet? It took them 2 years to even
decide they will use WebGL, finally. I guess it will take them another 2 years
for WebRTC.

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masklinn
> then they'll have to support VP8, too, which is the standard codec for
> WebRTC.

It's not. There is no mandatory video codec in WebRTC at this point, only
mandatory capabilities namely:

> o MUST support at least 10 frames per second (fps) and SHOULD support 30 fps

> o If VP8 is supported, then it MUST support the bilinear and none
> reconstruction filters

> o OPTIONALLY offer support for additional color spaces

> o MUST support a minimum resolution of 320X240

> o SHOULD support resolutions of 1280x720, 720x480, 1024x768, 800x600,
> 640x480, 640 x 360 , 320x240

Source: [http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cbran-rtcweb-
codec-02#secti...](http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cbran-rtcweb-
codec-02#section-3.2)

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zanny
Still hoping Daala can mature and take the throne. If its mathematics truly
produce a next generation of compression efficiency in video, and it is open
from xiph + Mozilla, that is the biggest kind of win.

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ashishgandhi
Is there are reason why this is a link to Google Plus which essentially links
to GigaOM? The comments on Plus aren't what you would call top quality either.

Orignal link: [http://gigaom.com/2013/08/28/hangouts-hd-
vp8-webrtc/](http://gigaom.com/2013/08/28/hangouts-hd-vp8-webrtc/)

~~~
thurn
Presumably because it's official confirmation of the feature. The gigaom piece
seems more speculative in nature (no official sources).

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raldi
Indeed, the person who posted it runs G+.

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Daiz
So they "go HD" by switching to a format with worse compression quality.
Sounds like a recipe for victory! (I can certainly understand switching to a
royalty-free format, but I still found this funny nevertheless.)

On another note, I find it really annoying how people equate video resolution
with video quality, when the only thing the resolution really tells is how
much detail the video could potentially have. Bitrate and encoding settings
will matter much more - if you're using low bitrates (like what you'd tend to
see in real-time video calls) a HD video can easily end up looking worse than
a lower-resolution video at the same bitrate. This dual move to HD and the
switch to a worse format (compression-wise) might just end up doing exactly
that (though I haven't actually used Hangouts myself so I can't speak for its
current video quality).

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netrus
I am a huge fan of Google Hangouts, however I am pretty sure my current
bottleneck is the upload speed of the people talking with me ... how realistic
is it to upload HD video content in real time? [I am on all kind of European
DSL connections, most of the time].

~~~
shubb
For a lot of people there is going to be an encode (CPU) bottleneck as well.
From trying to do webcasting a while ago, I can tell you that encoding HD
video in realtime on last years PCs was a major problem.

Then again, it takes this kind of thing to push hardware makers and ISPs
forward. If a lot of people want to use google hangouts with HD, it will
create a call for internet connections with fast upload speeds (rather than a
bias towards download as we see now).

~~~
selectodude
Were you webcasting in 1080p? This only supports 720p, which will be
substantially less intensive. I think my phone can encode 720p in real-time.
I'm pretty sure a mid-range laptop from the last couple years can do 720p at a
reasonable bitrate.

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plorkyeran
Your phone has a dedicated h264 hardware encoder. Most new computers do as
well these days, but not the older ones that actually need it.

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eitally
Yep. Even 2 year old machines (especially laptops) are unsuited. We have
recently been testing Hangouts, Vidyo, Bluejeans, Polycom, Skype, Fuzebox....
and it was a lot of fun trying to diagnose degradation of user experience.
Almost never was it network-related (except in cases with 8-10++ endpoints).
It's much more common to be CPU-constrained than anything else.

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awakeasleep
I'd like to plug the logitech c920 webcam that not only has beautiful optics
and a terrific auto-focus, wide viewing angle, and dual microphones, but also
does the transcoding onboard.

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AceJohnny2
That's nice, but it won't make me forgive them for removing presence
information from the mobile app.

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darkstar999
You mean how you can't see who is online on Hangouts? That is super annoying.
I may decide how to contact someone based on their status. Are they
idle/offline/busy?

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patrickaljord
most people don't use status and most of those who do abuse them (always away
or busy or invisible etc) so I've always found them unreliable and useless. If
you need to contact someone, just send the message, he'll answer when he can.

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cpursley
Sigh...

Dammit Google, quite making amazing products. I'm trying to move away from
using American products with NSA backdoors.

~~~
mahyarm
At least they spin out a good part of it into an open source library you can
use called WebRTC!

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skore
Will be interesting to see whether this will allow for realtime streaming of
your desktop for "webinar" application. That's a market I would love to see a
little disruption in from a big player.

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lostsock
You can already screen share with hangouts. Are you just asking if they intend
to keep that feature?

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skore
No, but the resolution is terrible for sharing screens.

The other thing I should have mentioned is that I'm also concerned with
sharing a hangout to YouTube for later viewing. That, right now, is only
supported for 480p, which is completely unusable for screencasts that contain
text.

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ZeroGravitas
The article suggest that use case (Live hangouts that are going to be
published to Youtube) will be the first to see this rolled out.

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michaelt
Does anyone know if Hangouts has any ability to work with people who don't
have Google accounts? IMHO that would be a useful feature.

~~~
zanny
Hangouts runs on a Google proprietary protocol. They are depreciating their
foss Jingle library for xmpp video and audio conferencing for Hangouts, to
force people to use their entire stack to use Hangouts.

I'm hoping Daala + Opus conferencing and streaming can enter Jingle in the
next few years, see it mainlined in jabber, and that could be a good
alternative. Self-host your own xmpp server if you want, or use a web service
that provides it (like Talk did).

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mdesq
But I'm still waiting for full screen.

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zurn
Did Hangouts start enforcing the true names policy recently or was it ilke
that from the start? It makes it pretty useless especially if you want a multi
party hangout and/or don't know all your contacts to be full-on G+ believers.

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kayoone
last time i checked it didnt support full screen which is a deal breaker for
screen sharing. Hopefully they change it, who needs HD if its not even full
screen anyway.

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jordanthoms
Hangouts supports full screen, along with sharing individual windows which is
actually really useful

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kayoone
How to activate fullscreen ? The video is always in a frame with the chat and
navigation bar etc.

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short_circut
I can't wait to see the Virtual Star Party in HD.

