
Dutch MoD appoints 72 citizens to cyber-military reserve force - seelt
https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/brieven_regering/detail?id=2019Z20386&did=2019D42637
======
chrisseaton
This is a strange title. Why did they use the word 'citizens' rather than just
'people'? Does it imply something important? As opposed to what else? Foreign
mercenaries of some kind? Or was it mistranslated and it's actually
'civilians' and the news is they're using non-military personnel for this?

And isn't this a really small appointment? Is the story actually that the MoD
has _created_ a cyber reserve force? It's a very small one if it's just a
company's worth of people.

~~~
tluyben2
You cannot just be resident in the Netherlands; you need to be a citizen. The
whole point here is that you get to work 'in the army' while you do not have
to be physically fit to do so, so basically any citizen (but not residents)
with relevant knowledge & experience can apply for some of these positions
(the ones that are non combat and do not require physical training or
fitness).

~~~
ddalex
What if I'm Romanian and move permanently to the Netherlands with my job,
family, house, etc, as I can under UE law?

I would be a resident, but not a citizen, correct?

~~~
jascii
Correct. for a quick run-down of Dutch immigration law see:
[https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/how-
beco...](https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/how-become-
permanent-resident-or-citizen-netherlands)

I suspect op refers to a requirement to be a citizen to join the military, but
can't be sure.

~~~
tluyben2
The terminology was specific mentioning 'citizen' which is because you cannot
join any of the state security positions, including military, if you are not a
citizen but 'only resident'. The letter written by the secretary of defence
notes specifically that they are looking for people in the corporate world to
join but that these people must be citizens.

~~~
jascii
Dank je wel voor de verklaaring! (gosh my dutch is rusty!)

------
jacquesm
You may want to think twice before showing off your skills here. Keep in mind
that there are a ton of unsolved cybercrime cases and if your skills happen to
match an unsolved case you should not be surprised to find yourself added to a
list of suspects. If you're unlucky there are no other suspects...

~~~
pc86
Luckily in free areas of the world you don't get imprisoned based on process
of elimination.

~~~
jacquesm
Hah. You'd be surprised how often 'anonymous tips' end up implicating people
that otherwise were not on the roll at all.

Welcome to the very slippery slope.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction)

I would not at all be surprised to see equivalents in other jurisdictions.

The idea here is not that the tip is evidence, but that the tip leads to an
investigation focused on an individual that was otherwise not a suspect. Given
how hacking computers often leaves no suspects having _any_ suspect is already
a step up from having none. Motive, means and opportunity right? Means -> you
are able to hack, we found your application to this ultra elite hacking thingy
the good government put out, you aced it, therefore you have the means. You're
a competent hacker, you were near a computer the night this stuff went down
that gives opportunity. Which leaves motive, and it won't take much to tag
some hacker type with any motive you care about maladjusted miscreants that
they are.

~~~
sailfast
This is a totally pedantic meta comment but I think you mean motive here, not
Motif. In English, motif typically means more like a design pattern or theme,
which is confusing since it’s so similar to motief in Nederlands.

~~~
wjnc
This is great. When German, English, French and Dutch go through a tumbler and
no easy logic can be seen explaining the different uses and spellings. Motief,
motive, motiv, motif.

So motif [Eng] is based on motive [Fr] for repetitive (something). And motive
[Eng] is similar in meaning to motief [NL], motive [Fr] and motiv [De]. All
based on the same root in Latin.

~~~
sailfast
Agreed - so interesting to see which words now have meanings tied to certain
contexts in different languages (well, mostly English probably since it makes
little sense at times!) over time. It was an interesting exploration.

------
tasogare
What's the novelty here? There is a cyber-defence reserve in French army since
a few years, and quoting Wikipedia, its composed of 4000 citizens reservists,
400 operational reservists and 40 soldiers.

[https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9serve_op%C3%A9rationnel...](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9serve_op%C3%A9rationnelle_de_cyberd%C3%A9fense)

~~~
jascii
The novelty here is that they are waving the physical requirements of military
personnel while still enlisting them as military allowing them to engage into
certain offensive actions that would, under dutch law, be prohibited to
civilian personnel. I have no idea whether that is at all unique in europe or
globally.

------
PanosJee
If you are Dutch civilian train at hackthebox and apply :)

------
mxuribe
As far as government programs go, now THIS is a good idea!

------
prof_mm
A Word document? Are you kidding me? Would a truly cyber-security conscious
(i.e.: slightly paranoid) citizen download and open that, from the open
internet, with a nation-state actor behind it?

~~~
pearjuice
Which format would you have preferred?

~~~
rejschaap
Plaintext would have sufficed

~~~
ddalex
how can you inject an exploit from a plaintext file?

~~~
oneplane
Didn't someone do that with notepad.exe recently? The demo spawned calc.exe
from notepad.exe.

