
Facebook Ads don't suck - DivByZero
http://blog.adespresso.com/facebook-ads-dont-suck-bashing-great-marketing/
======
jmathai
I don't think it's about Facebook Ads sucking or not sucking. That's the
narrative but the underlying issue is people feel that Facebook Ads are a rip
off.

I wonder how much of Facebook's ad revenue (and Google's for that Matter)
consists of less savvy marketing efforts that don't understand or even care
about the metrics which matter. The long tail?

I don't believe the argument in favor of Facebook Ads can be that you need to
understand marketing better or differently.

The majority, I presume, of people using these platforms have little to
mediocre experience. The disappointment in Facebook Ads comes from this large
group.

I've talked to plenty of people and no one has been happy with Facebook Ads.
The details of why don't necessarily matter - they've taken their $ elsewhere.
Winning them back will be tough.

~~~
DivByZero
Agreed but doesn't this apply to every Advertising platform? Are you going to
get much better results if you spend $50 with no expertise on Google AdWords
or display advertising ?

Would be really interesting to know how much the long tail account for :) But
guess we'll never know!

For sure both Facebook and Google should do a better job training users with 0
expertise to better use their platform. I don't think in the long term they
have much space to grow more in the enterprise, SMBs, the long tail are the
segment where the future growth is ... and if they loose them after the first
$50 it will be tough!

~~~
htk
So what you are implying is that one cannot talk about his bad experience with
Facebook ads because other platforms have the same problems?

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pseudometa
This guy's company helps people tweak their facebook advertising is rallying
to promote facebook ad effectivenes. Not exactly an impartial voice.

And yeah, why not hop on the thread and get some SEO links of your own.

This guy is no better than the people he is slandering.

~~~
DivByZero
Never claimed to be better :)

But if you like to bash something based on data, at least let's do it with
some reasonable data set

~~~
pseudometa
Fine, but don't complain about people getting SEO marks when you are doing the
same.

~~~
DivByZero
I don't, I've written in the post I envy them for the great outcome they had
out of $50 spent in Fb Ads ... that's what marketing is all about, getting the
most out of your time/money :)

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shostack
Interesting post and you are spot on with this from a high-level.

For advanced digital marketers, the next step of course is looking beyond last
click data. The attribution model you view your data through plays just as
large a role in determining the success of it as many of the other factors
that this article and others focus on.

Since you have conversion tracking setup for FB, FB conversions will obviously
be higher than what GA shows in its standard reporting since FB's own
conversion data is the equivalent of awarding 100% attribution to all assisted
click conversions.

What would be more interesting is to see how this stacks up along with your
other channels with various attribution models.

For those that are wondering if FB is working for you and looking at last
click conversion metrics, you're doing it wrong. For a large % of scenarios,
Facebook tends to play a much bigger role at the beginning of the conversion
funnel, ie. the "Awareness" stage. This is also true of many forms of display
advertising. To expect it to perform strongly on a last click model is unwise.
First click models are likewise not great, but even that stark comparison will
give you a sense of the contribution, and the GA multi-channel reports can
show you that overlap.

I'm constantly blown away by how many amazing attribution tools Google gives
away in the free version of GA and I'm always disappointed that none of the
marketing articles that hit HN focus on that piece of the puzzle.

~~~
DivByZero
Thanks for the comment. Great considerations.

Totally agree that overall Facebook Ads is great for demand generation while
Google Adwords is much better for demand fulfillment. Also you're right on the
attribution model, Facebook clearly attribute to itself every conversion from
people who clicked the ad no matter of the last click.

In the future I'll try to make a followup post playing with GA various
attribution models and checking how they change the data!

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ry0ohki
This is the original author, you only targeted Desktop, so your analysis does
not refute my original point (that mobile clicks are accidental).

I did learn after I wrote my post how to target Desktop only and am running a
follow up experiment, but if you're going to talk shit, at least do a valid
comparison. Also I'm not sure what SEO you think I care about for my random
Tumblr... (I specifically did not post it under my company blog)

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jscheel
Normally you would expect marketers to know that when you are dealing with a
low amount of traffic (probably from a low spend), one or two errant clicks or
a bot can totally throw off your numbers. This article does a great job of
showing proving that you need larger datasets to get a better understanding of
what's going on. It does a great job of showing the discrepancy in numbers
from tracking platforms, but that's probably just because I'm sensitive to
that right now, since I've been dealing with it myself fora while.

~~~
DivByZero
Thanks :) Yep ... I wrote it exactly out of frustration for reading post after
post here on HN bashing Fb Ads because of Fake clicks ... people should stop
caring about clicks and focus on real metrics. Then a platform may not be a
good fit for you, but still you cannot know if you test with a $50 budget

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calbear81
I think you make a good point about ignoring the visits because at the end of
the day it all comes down to the effective CPA (cost per action) or conversion
rate. Much of the misconception and disappointment in Facebook ads come from
folks who don't have a nuanced view of the differences in marketing channel
effectiveness. It doesn't really matter what you pay as long it works out to
the same ROI - better channels can charge more per visit, worse channels
charge less. The only downside to having lower quality channels is that they
blend down your overall metrics so you have to segment your reporting
appropriately.

In the last Facebook bashing post, the author compared the CPC on Facebook to
the cost on AdWords which is a terrible comparison because the intent of a
directed search on a search engine is so much more legitimate than just being
somewhat interested in something on Facebook.

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hagbardgroup
It is not that Facebook ads suck. They are fantastic for particular, specific
business goals. Companies that have access to expensive and effective software
outside of Facebook can make even better use of their platform in conjunction
with others.

The problem has to do with the messaging to small business people by the big
online advertising platforms. The messaging is that it is easy, fast, and has
a small minimum spend. It's akin to the '90s era messaging around discount
stock brokerages that encouraged average bums to become day traders. While
yes, the average bum can day trade, it is not a good idea for the average bum
to day trade. It is the same for online ads for people unwilling to spend the
time/effort to study, filter out the junk information, and practice.

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amaks
Ads may be not suck, but fake clicks and overcharging for them seems like a
common theme lately.

~~~
DivByZero
That's true but actually Facebook now try to charge for CPM not clicks so that
soften the problem, and still, you should check your CPA ... if that makes
sense some fake clicks are acceptable.

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cloudwizard
If you are advertising FB ad services, your conversion would obviously be
higher in FB. The fact that it is only 63% better that Google Ads seems poor.

My experience with FB is that the conversion rate is essentially zero and
limited by your ability to donate to FB.

~~~
DivByZero
This is partially true ... but still promoting a b2b service on FB is always
tough ... I see many of our customers with b2c products getting crazy
conversion rates and spending more and more.

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NikolaTesla
Kind of reminds me of:

Customer: "But using it, I'm loosing money on every purchase." Vendor: "Don't
worry, buy more, you'll make it up on volume."

~~~
DivByZero
Sorry that what the post remember you of. Was not the intention.

I'm the first to say that Facebook Ads don't work for everyone. And in
advertising you should immediately stop spending on anything that don't have a
positive ROI.

Still before stopping you should learn a bit how to use the platform and give
it a fair try.

Then if it does not work ... stop it immediately and move on testing another
channel :)

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DivByZero
I'd love to hear what the HN crowd think about my comments on FB Ads after so
many stories trending bashing Fb Ads :)

~~~
ambiate
"Facebook Ads Are OK, but supporting them on HN is great!" You have just
followed suit and created backlinks, conversions, ad views, etc. Don't worry,
we all do it! It's the cycle of internet flow these days.

I'm with you. There are far too many variables ranging from audience, timing,
ad setup, money, etc to even begin measuring in any scenario. The million
dollar per month investment may see a better conversion rate than the ten
million dollar per month investment. There are just far too many variables at
play.

While American Idol was becoming a thing, I acquired #1 ad placement on the
keyword 'dance' for 2 cents per click through Adwords. I was getting 100,000
impressions an hour. For me, Adwords was the greatest thing known to humans.
Then, I attacked more keywords for other sites. Horrid conversion/CTR. Just
different sides of the spectrum. You win some, you lose some.

