
Lost Posture: Why Indigenous Cultures Don't Have Back Pain - miralabs
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/08/412314701/lost-posture-why-indigenous-cultures-dont-have-back-pain
======
defen
Squats and deadlifts are how I cured my back pain. I recognize that I tend to
have a missionary zeal about this subject because I think it has had so many
benefits for me...but seriously, if you don't have any health issues that
prevent you from doing so, you should be lifting heavy weights with a barbell.
Your clothes will fit better, people will be more attracted to you, you'll
have more confidence, and you'll be amazed at how strong you become. If you're
a healthy adult male under 40, 1 hour a day for 3 days a week will get you to
"pick up 400 pounds off the floor with relative ease" within a year.

~~~
542458
> 1 hour a day for 3 days a week will get you to "pick up 400 pounds off the
> floor with relative ease" within a year.

Do you have a link to a particular regimen that worked for you?

~~~
randlet
You will find quite a few beginner programs that you can make tremendous
progress on. Some of the most popular are Starting Strength[1], Strong Lifts
5x5[2], and Ice Cream Fitness (ICF)[3]. Anything with progressive
overload/linear programming (adding more weight to the bar almost every
workout) will work wonders for you.

[1] [http://startingstrength.com/](http://startingstrength.com/)

[2] [http://stronglifts.com](http://stronglifts.com)

[3] [https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-
ice-c...](https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-
fitness-5x5-novice-workout)

~~~
sremani
I would add "Simple and Sinister" for Kettlebell geeks (like me). Unbelievable
level of conditioning can be achieved with only 2 exercises, The Swing and
Get-up.

~~~
randlet
I own and enjoy kettlebells but I didn't actually start getting _a lot_
stronger until I started barbell training.

As you mention kettlebells are fantastic for conditioning but are not the best
tools for getting stronger because you can't (easily) progressively overload
the amount of weight you are lifting like you can with barbell training.

~~~
kendallpark
Yeah, I had a friend that did the most intense kettlebell workouts fairly
frequently. I was surprised at how small his gains were compared to
traditional weightlifting methods.

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rwhitman
The author mentioned in this article, Esther Gokhale, wrote a book several
years ago with the somewhat goofy title _8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back_ , which
I can't recommend enough, especially if you suffer from back pain. It really
transformed the way in which I think about my posture and ergonomics in
general.

One of the things she touched on in the book, which the NPR article seemed to
miss, was a hypothesis that poor posture in the Western world is the result of
a cultural shift in the early 20th century. Particularly that slouching and
unnatural postures were a sort of rebellious statement against the Victorians
for 1920's youth.

Bad ergonomics and posture became so hip that they found their way into
furniture design - something that became very clear to me after having a
herniated disc and a vintage mid-century couch in my living room..

~~~
Someone1234
Does one really need the book to learn the "secrets?" Is the entire book
basically "stand up straight and your back pain goes away?"

~~~
Darmani
That's a lot of it, except that it turns out that how to "stand up straight"
is very counterintuitive. You will hurt yourself if you just try. Really, the
book is not enough; you need the class, or at least the videos. They also
teach you better ways of walking and bending.

~~~
thenomad
_" it turns out that how to "stand up straight" is very counterintuitive"_

That sentence sums up most of my last decade or so's reading and learning on
posture nicely :)

Posture: it's harder than it looks.

------
Dirlewanger
>Everyone knows that weak abdominal muscles can cause back pain. In fact,
Mummaneni says, stronger muscles might be the secret to Gokhale's success.

Don't really need to say anything else. Get into weight training and stick to
it.

~~~
maccard
The problem with some back pain is you're unable to walk or bend over, let
alone actually exercise, until the pain is masked by something else.

~~~
rwhitman
If you're acute like that there are a lot of exercises that can make the
situation much worse, particularly if you don't have a diagnosis and are
unsure of where the injury is located.

Best course of action is go to a Dr and push them to prescribe physical
therapy over surgery or meds. Once you know the site of your pain and have a
good physical therapist they will give you safe exercises that protect from
additional injury. Some lazier doctors will often resort to pain killers or
worse, surgery, as a quick solution, but in most cases a few sessions with a
good physical therapist is all you need

~~~
maccard
If you're acute, and prescribed physical therapy but can't stand, it's not
going to work either though. There's no problem with being on opiods for a
short period of time to relieve the pain, and allow you to take on a proper
course of physical therapy, and get the exercise and movement you need.

------
abandonliberty
Author's book successful on Amazon: 4.6/5, 600 ratings, gushing reviews from
MD PHDs in the Mayo clinic.

Published in 2008.

------
WalterSear
"An acupuncturist in Palo Alto, Calif., thinks she has figured out why."

Ok, lost me right there.

~~~
tofupup
I agree ... my first thought when I saw the teaser was ... the average
lifespan for the pre-morden world was about 25. Back pain is a problem in your
40's - 50's I doubt if a culture will change for such a rare problem. It is
like us getting rid of all stairs because people in their 60's aren't as
mobile. But then if you are willing to believe in acupuncture you are willing
to believe in anything.

[http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/common-
pains-o...](http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/common-pains-of-age)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy)

~~~
rafd
FYI, even in the paleolithic era, if you lived past 15, the life expectancy
was 54. [1]

Using average lifespan in your argument portrays a world where no-one lives to
their 50s. When in actuality, most adults died in their 50s (but there was a
very high level of child mortality which brings down the average).

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy)

------
kendallpark
As one that is in and out of PT fairly frequently, I can tell you how
absolutely FRUSTRATED PTs and orthos get by people that have lower back pain
and want some medication or special chairs or stem, as opposed to buckling
down and strengthening their abdominal muscles.

Weak abs = lower back pain. For most cases. In my early years playing
football, I used to get lower back pain from the contact. I was weightlifting
regularly, but always skipped my ab exercises because I hated them. One year I
was like, screw it, I'm going to do these. Abs got strong, back pain
disappeared.

This posturing stuff engages your core and helps keep the spine supported
properly. If you want faster results, get in the gym and get an abdominal
routine going.

------
djc_tech
Plus look at toddlers and some Asian cultures. They can squat full dept with
no problem. My toddler can squat and stand up without issue. I can - but I've
retrained myself and opened up my hips/hamstrings and worked on core strength.
baby's mama cannot perform a full depth squat let alone with any weight on the
or front rack position. The old Asian lady down the street can and does when
she does her gardening.

I think that coupled with a lot of people have at least mild APT because of a
weak core is the major issue. It causes hip strain.

~~~
rpenm
I wouldn't be surprised if most of that flexibility in Asian cultures comes
from using a squat toilet (or open defecation) everyday.

------
Darmani
I took Esther's course in 2013, and it's had a huge effect on my life.

Getting into the correct position involves moving some muscles I didn't know I
had, but, once achieved, it feels amazing. Sitting feels like being massaged.
I can twist my neck further. When I practice karate, all my movements become
faster and easier. The only problem is keeping the posture once achieved, as
all your old movements can cause you to revert (and yes, it takes some core
strength, but that's a small part).

------
xchip
"An acupuncturist in Palo Alto, Calif., thinks she has figured out why."

Acupuncture is know to work (even if you put the needles randomly) Please
bring me a scientist :)

~~~
adamtj
What the article describes is real science. That makes her a scientist. She's
also does acupuncture, which makes her a pseudo-scientist. The two aren't
mutually exclusive, and here is a person who is both. That's the real story,
in my opinion.

~~~
xchip
To be a scientist you need to know how to research, thing that takes a minimum
of 4 years with the supervision of a senior professor. Also your results need
to be reviewed by other researchers... And even with all this process in place
many times we make mistakes... so imagine what can I tell you about an
acupunturist.

------
andrewtbham
Pro tip:

> take a deep breath in and grow tall. Then maintain that height as you
> exhale.

~~~
nate_meurer
Thank you, these sorts of cues are among the most valuable things trainers
provide in my experience.

------
towelguy
Maybe they don't have the luxury to complain that much.

------
a8da6b0c91d
Back pain in the industrialized world is overwhelmingly psychogenic. It's
Tension Myositis Syndrome as described by Dr. Sarno. Given only x-rays images,
spine specialists completely fail to identify the individuals who report back
pain. _Most_ people with no back pain have various structural abnormalities.

These people getting back pain and carpal tunnel syndrome were all getting
ulcers 60 years ago. Then the idea that ulcers are just an infection took hold
so the psychogenic manifestations of stress shifted.

~~~
mhurron
Are you suggesting that back pain and carpal tunnel don't exist?

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
They exist and are psychogenic. The nervous system, directed by the brain, can
induce localized inflammation.

~~~
greggman
I know it's just my own anecdotes but I find that really hard to believe given
how painful my back pain has been. It was so painful once and lasted for about
a week that I seriously considered that I would end my life if the doctor told
me there was nothing they could do.

For me, at least recently, the trigger seems to be lifting something heavy and
wrong way. It doesn't hurt that day but the next day I literally can't move in
certain directions without searing pain. Just turning in bed, getting in or
out of bed, getting in or out of a car, walking, using the toilet, sitting
down or getting up, all of it hurt.

The doctor claimed it was muscle spasms. She gave me some muscle relaxants and
it went away. I've since try to work out more. I haven't had an episode in a
while but I can't sleep on my stomach like I used to as curving my back that
way has been known to trigger it.

~~~
abandonliberty
[0][http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence)
[1][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_myositis_syndrome#Medic...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_myositis_syndrome#Medical_evidence)

The claim here is that a significant proportion of these illnesses are
psychogenic; even if your anecdote was convincing it would do nothing to
challenge the original argument, as you could easily be part of the 47%[1].

Furthermore, you base your conclusion on the severity of pain you experienced,
in your opinion, being beyond what's possible for a psychogenic illness. You
don't offer evidence to support this opinion, and, as there are many types of
psychological distress that drive people to ending their own lives, I find it
unconvincing.

In any case, I hope you keep an open mind and find an effective way to manage
and improve your health. The lifts recommended in other parts of this
conversation might be more in line with your values.

