
How I learned to stop giving advice - javery
http://jamesavery.io/how-i-learned-to-stop-giving-advice/
======
soneca
I like some kinds of advice. I am a very recent founder who knows very little
about a lot of things. But sure, there are two types of advice that annoys me,
for one I learned to have patience for the other I learned to ignore.

I learned to be patient with who knows absolutly nothing about my business, my
sector, my technology or startups in general. Friends of friends and relatives
in general. It is good to have patience because most of time they give you
ridiculous ideas (because they know nothing of your business), but every few
times you realize you got a very interesting idea, something that you would
never thought, precisely because they have a completely different background
and experiences.

But the type of advice I learned to ignore are the ones from "experts". Such
as the case of the OP. They are usually founders and _mentors_ , both
experienced and newbies. The problem is that they think they _know_ what is
your problem, and they _know_ what would be the solution. And worst, usually
the solution comes with a lecture about how you suck on doing something you
obviously should be doing, ie, following a famous advice from a famous person:
"get out of the building", "do something people want", recently the "do things
that don't scale".

TL;DR If the advice comes from some random person and starts with "What if.."
or "Have you tried...", be patient, you will hear a lot of nonsense, but
sometimes it will pay off. But if the advice comes from someone who think they
are better than you on what you are doing, and starts with "You are not doing
X right.." or "you must do <famous advice> more", forget it, it is BS.

~~~
mathattack
I like the term "Idea Fairy" \- people who toss ideas that cost you time to
analyze and refute, but who don't actually provide anything like time or money
to implement them. It is good to keep an open mind, but if you pay too much
attention to too many Idea Fairies, you'll never get anything done.

------
onion2k
That's all very well, but often people _haven 't_ thought of whatever you
might tell them. By saving them from possible offence[1] you're limiting what
ideas they have available to use. When I was running a startup I was more than
happy to hear the same advice and ideas over and over again from mentors
because just occasionally you got something that was new that you'd not
considered before. That was far better than being saved from listening to
people who might be suggesting things I'd already considered.

Advice and ideas that came from proven and experienced people were often
better and more useful but only because that meant I didn't have to spend so
much time researching them to see if they might work for me or figuring out
the potential pitfalls - the ideas themselves were no better or worse than if
they'd come from someone "unqualified".

Regarding the 'impostor syndrome' problem, that doesn't really enter into the
equation if the person listening to your ideas and advice is sensible. No one
just blindly goes and does what someone outside of their startup tells them to
do, regardless of how much respect they might have for that individual.

[1] Anyone who gets offended by someone offering well-meaning advice is an
idiot and probably wouldn't have listened even if that advice was based on a
mountain of prior experience.

~~~
jdmichal
> That's all very well, but often people haven't thought of whatever you might
> tell them.

I don't think the point was, "Don't tell them about things that might help
them." I understood it more as, "Tell them things, but do it in reference of
what worked in your experience. Then let them decide whether that might work
in their experience."

Before: "You should try (this thing). It's awesome for (whatever it does)
because (x, y, z)."

After: "At (my place), we use (this thing). It's been great for us at
(whatever it does) because (x, y, z)."

Basically, you're removing the implicit assumption that you know better than
the person you're speaking with about what would work for their business.

~~~
indlebe
>Basically, you're removing the implicit assumption that you know better than
the person you're speaking with about what would work for their business.

Bingo. I feel that that from a psychological perspective the way you word
advice can dictate how well it's received.

"I think you should do X", or even worse "You're doing that wrong, you should
be doing X" isn't generally something that people digest hearing that well.

"I've done X in that exact situation and it worked really well for me" can be
much more palatable.

------
yoha
Main quote from the article:

> "Members don’t give advice; they speak from priorexperience, letting you
> draw your own conclusions on how to best proceed.”

I can totally relate from when I was teaching programming or explaining math
related stuff to other people. Telling what to do is like giving the solution
right away: they will solve the problem but without making the mental
connection for it to be able to reproduce the reasoning.

As a wannabe teacher, I just try to make sure people I teach encounter bugs,
or make wrong computation, or biased proofs. He forgot a semi-colon? Good, let
the compiler throw an error at him so that he actually gets negative feedback;
if he does not understand what the compiler says, I'll help him get it and,
when he fixes the typo and get the source to compiler, he'll get the positive
feedback for himself.

There is a common bias when teaching. You don't expect to be waiting, so you
try to drive people's thinking in the right direction. But good teachers make
sure you don't give up in front of an error. Great teachers make you want to
get errors.

Algrith, it was not exactly business-related, but I think it connects someway.

tl;dr: teaching is about catalyzing the process of encountering errors, not
avoiding them

~~~
mkr-hn
I remember a class back in tech school. The teacher sent us off for a break,
mangled the insides of our work computers, and had us fix them. I think I got
a loose video card. Someone else had to reassemble the whole thing.

We learned a lot from experience and observation. This was the same class
where we had to plan a new server room together even though the course was
aimed at desktop support. And the same teacher who had us break our Fedora
installs just to see if we could fix them. That was where I got comfortable
with Linux.

------
aragot
I have the same problem. I'm an asshole. I pray every day that I won't get
anyone angry.

Last in date: I subscribe to a coworking space, and on Sunday I couldn't find
the IP of the printer. The next Monday when the agent gives it to me, I
immediately write it on a label on the printer, to help the next guy who would
have the problem. She hates me since then.

Previous one. Accepted in a (young) incubator. I sat there and there's a cold
stream of air in my feet. On day 3, I asked the president (they're just 6
volunteers) to take care of the heating (Well, members participate 350€ to the
fees so I feel entitled). I has ass-kicked out and she discredited me to other
colleagues.

So yes, I give advice, tell opinions, take initiatives, have requirements and
more generally feel entitled when I should. It really is hard to balance
between taking the room that you're entitled to while not hurting others. If
you have experience to share, I'm listening.

~~~
polarix
Why would the agent hate you for labeling the printer with its IP address? I'm
confused.

~~~
themckman
I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that he labeled the printer and
everything to do with how he did it.

~~~
LordIllidan
Agreed - a simple "Do you mind if I write this down? This way I won't need to
bother you again next time!" wouldn't have done any harm..

------
wpietri
Giving advice like this is awfully tempting. But I've learned that even if I
am right, which I probably am not, it doesn't do any good. When I take my
hard-won rule and follow it to a good outcome, it generally works not because
of the rule, but because of all the thinking and experimenting I took to get
to the rule.

What I try to do now is to ask good questions. If I suspect something is wrong
with their business model, instead of saying, "You should do X", I'll try to
ask questions that help them uncover the flaw in their thinking. Sometimes
that actually happens. Sometimes they just aren't ready to learn the lesson,
which is fine; maybe they'll remember the question. And sometimes I uncover a
flaw in _my_ thinking. That's valuable twice over: not only did I learn
something about the domain, but I learned to be a little more humble.

~~~
wpietri
And for the record, I started out writing that very comment in advice mode.
I've been trying to correct that habit for maybe 3 years at this point.
Changing behavior is hard. Especially behaviors with a short-term win
(asserting status, getting to feel smart) and a long-term loss (irritating
people, not helping them as much as I'd like, feeling like an asshole when I
think back on my blowhard behavior). But given that I spent 30 years building
the habit, as long as I break it in less than that I'll count it as a win.

------
thelogos
Not just with startups, but with life in general.

It's good practice to not give out advice unless someone specifically ask for
it.

The only time I break this rule is with my parents. Most people will not feel
any gratitude if your advice turns out to be good.

They will, however, mentally blame you if it turns out to be bad advice,
whether justified or not.

~~~
aestra
>It's good practice to not give out advice unless someone specifically ask for
it.

Most times people just want to chat or vent. As engineers and hackers we tend
to want to "fix" things, to come up with solutions. Most of the time people
don't want unsolicited solutions or to be told what to do, they just want
someone to listen.

------
bane
Slightly off topic, I have a very dear friend who calls me up all the time to
talk about his constant life drama. It seemed to me for a long time he was
framing the conversation as looking for advice, since when advice was given
the conversation seemed to move along rather well.

The thing about advice is it almost requires you to invest yourself a little
in the other person's problem and advice starts turning into involvement,
which can be frustrating when the other party doesn't follow the advice, as my
friend almost never does. Over the years I found that he'd typically ignore
good advice, get himself into trouble, come back for more advice/a way out of
his disaster and then repeat until I was getting way too involved in his
business. Which left me in a foul mood and our friendship on the rocks.

It's tempting for the receiver to take that advice/involvement as most people
are looking for a little bit of help through problem areas.

But I've learned from him that it's often better to not get involved at all in
other people's business, even if it's just advice,...no matter how tempting it
is. They have to make the mistakes and learn from the experience themselves.
And if they can't learn from that experience, maybe they shouldn't be involved
in doing whatever it is they're doing.

This is really hard to do though, especially for engineer types who view the
world as a sequence of problems. There's a lot of pop-sociology that men like
to fix things and women like to talk about things, which is used to explain
the constant need for guys to give advice, and often results in relationship
counseling like "just listen to your girlfriend/wife, that's all she wants,
she's _emotionally_ processing".

I think it's a bit too gender biased so I've taken that idea and reworked it
to "most people just want to vent or verbally process their issues". Just
listen to them, nod a bit, if you have a similar situation try and and talk
about it too, but don't focus on how you solved it, just dialog. For _many_
people, it's about ordering their thoughts so the solution presents itself to
them.

For my friend, he's started to realize where lots of his life faults are, and
is _slowly_ coming to the realization that they aren't good long-term things
to carry around. He's looking at lots of digging to get himself out of some
bad problems he's gotten into, so he keeps looking for an easier
alternative/other way out. But letting him talk things out helps him see that
he's really only got one choice, and it's going to take a long time to do it.

~~~
hosh
It is gender-biased, since generally _everyone_ is emotionally processing in
some way or another. It's just that, _typically_ (but not always), men have a
habit of "fixing the problem" as a way to avoid emotional processing.

Before you can solve a problem or take action, you first have to accept that
there is a problem and action needs to be taken. That acceptance is an
emotional thing. It isn't a product of reason or intellect. It's not so much
that men do not emotionally process, but rather, people who are not in tune
with their emotions and suck at it will try to use reason to talk themselves
into acceptance. And it never works.

For people who are more in tuned with the heart of things, watching someone
like that is like watching someone going around and around in circles, using
the wrong part of their consciousness. Furthermore, the only way to be in tune
with your emotion is to acknowledge and experience those emotions. You cannot
force someone to fully experience something. The powers of human denial and
aversion are very creative.

However, once you've emotionally accepted that there is a problem and action
needs to be taken, it is from there that reasoning and problem solving skills
allows you to quickly get stuff done.

Mindfully listening to someone as they speak allows them to feel safe to touch
those emotions within themselves. It's called "holding space". And this
practice requires you to stop "waiting for the other person to speak". You are
simply witnessing someone work this stuff out.

~~~
hosh
So here's an example of what I mean.

There have been countless times when I wanted to go up to an attractive woman
and just start talking to her. But, I feared rejection. So usually I sit
there, mulling over about it while watching her from the corner of my eyes.
(Which is really creepy for the women). My mind comes up with any number of
scenarios, reasons, narratives to try to get me to go talk with her. Or,
perhaps, I try to come up with worst case scenarios.

I recognize now that, those thoughts I come up with are ways for me to avoid
feeling fear that is arising in that moment. It was much more comfortable
coming up with ideas or thinking about things than it is to touch that fear of
rejection. I'm used to thinking.

These days, the attitude I have is simply that I'm being friendly, and there's
no expectation of that. I'm making an invitation to be friendly and leaving it
at that superficial chit-chat. Someone might decline the invitation, and
that's ok.

To get to that point though, I've made deep dives into the fear, into the
things this touches.

Being able to chit-chat with strangers is nice. What is nicer is when I come
to a technical decision that involve things like cutting out code I've vested
a lot of effort in, because it does not work. Rather than trying to come up
with why it does not work, I now know how to emotionally accept that this
needs to happen. Then I cut it away and move on to getting it done.

~~~
bane
I've actually found tremendous comfort in the Litany Against Fear. One of the
greatest verses in literature IMHO.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_is_the_mind_killer#Litany...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_is_the_mind_killer#Litany_against_fear)

 _I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that
brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over
me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see
its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain._

After I hear it or say it, I feel icy cold and extremely rational. I'm aware
of emotion, but it fades into the background and I'm "freed" of it to make
decisions and think through complex problems.

~~~
hosh
I know. Lots of folks feel the same. The description itself is more or less
how you learn to let fear arise and pass when practicing Vipassana.

Just reciting the Litany has never worked for me, but that has more to do with
obscurations from my own mind.

------
krmmalik
I mentor alot of startups. This is exactly how I work. Also the peer to peer
coaching i did with Joel from Buffer uses similar principles. we only asked
each other prodding questions but never gave an actual answer. It was all
about leading them to a discovery that could work for them.

~~~
seren
Are you describing a kind of socratic questioning ? I am just curious about
your method.

~~~
mdda
How would you rephrase your question so that your suggestion of Socratic
Questioning isn't pushed into the answer?

eg: I'm curious about your method, could you give me an example or two of a
prodding question?

~~~
krmmalik
To be honest our method sounds similar to the socratic method.

A simple example would be:

Person A: I have to fire my new employee, i dont feel i can do it

Person B:

\- Why do you need to fire him? \- Can someone else do it? \- What would
happen if you didn't? \- Is it the method of firing, the person, or you?

etc etc

But obviously the questions adapt based on the responses.

Does that help? Happy to explain further via email or on skype if you like.
Contact details in profile

------
peterwwillis
How I learned that HN-whoring bloggers are deluding themselves to keep
blogging.

------
alabut
Paul Buchheit said something similar at startup school years ago and I watch
the video every once in a while to remind myself not to be similarly
prescriptive when I meet new people.

His key takeaway slide was a simple equation:

Limited Life Experience + Overgeneralization = Advice

The full video has more info on how to get past the advice you hear and
actually process feedback:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZxP0i9ah8E](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZxP0i9ah8E)

------
richardjordan
I'm very careful with advice. Even more so in personal contexts. The challenge
is that there's a four square matrix of outcomes: they follow vs they don't
follow; the outcome is a success vs a failure.

If they follow and have success they're a genius for evaluating options and
coming to proper conclusions. You don't get any credit for the advice.

If they ignore your advice and it works out well then they just remember
you're an idiot who can't be trusted.

If they don't follow your advice and things work out well they can resent you
for the imagined "I told you so".

But worst is if they act consistently with your advice (or at least believe
they have) and have a negative outcome. Your advice can cause people to avoid
accepting their own agency in the outcome, and fail to learn key lessons while
passing the blame to you.

Giving advice offers little upside with a lot of downside particularly in
relationships you value. I like the suggested approach of talking anecdotally
about similar situations in my own life or career, and my thinking and
choices, and as far as possible some objective accounting for outcomes.

Humility and support is better than overconfident prescriptions.

------
chris_wot
This is a confusing article. He's giving advice about the best way to stop
giving advice?

~~~
ralmeida
I didn't seem to find any imperatives even saying that you should follow the
same method. So, in essence, he is doing exactly what the article says:
telling his experience (about telling experiences instead of giving advice),
and letting the readers figure it out if they will take any action based on
that by themselves.

~~~
chris_wot
Fair comment.

------
6cxs2hd6
This reminds me of _Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus_. Stereotype Woman
wants to talk about her problems, for the sake of venting. Stereotype Man
wants to offer solutions and fix things. Hilarity ensues and sitcom writers
get rich.

I wrote "Stereotype" because all of us can be in either role. As a founder,
sometimes you just need to vent to someone who can empathize. The only "help"
you want is for someone to listen. You're not asking for fixes.

Whereas engineer/founders are especially likely to go into problem-solving
mode automatically. Even when that's not really what someone wants, or needs
from you.

EDIT: After writing this, I realized it's a bunch of unsolicited advice.
So....yeah.

~~~
auctiontheory
The older I get, the more I understand and believe the stereotypes in that
book.

------
ntaso
_This is one of the reasons I decided to start up this blog again. I stopped
blogging largely because I learned how much I didn’t know and felt I had no
right to be telling others what to do when there are more knowledgeable people
out there._

Thanks for that. I never started blogging although I wanted to, because
whenever I write a blog post, I feel it's kind of obsolete already, because it
has a view point that's too limited, too narrow. I "outgrew" my blog post in
the moment I finished it.

Maybe by framing it as stories and experiences, they get more valuable.

------
badman_ting
I appreciate the humility in this post. I have often had much the same
reaction the author mentions - annoyance with some asshole's "obvious"
suggestions after thinking about something for three minutes that other people
think about for large portions of their lives. And of course you can always
come up with ways to make a fundamental lack of humility and empathy sound
anodyne ("well who knows, maybe they didn't think of it!"). Good post.

------
jhwhite
A couple of things come to my mind when I start reading this.

It frustrates me when I start telling a story and people interject to try and
solve a problem that I don't have based on a partial story. Sometimes I'm just
relating an anecdote, there is no overall problem, I don't need 3 suggestions
on what to do next. The next is already solved. You just haven't let me finish
the story.

This is possibly not related but the article says to speak from experience.
Can this be applied to job interviews? In previous interviews I've started
with my experience stating what I've done in the past only to be interrupted
and told they don't care about what I've done in the past, how would I do it
in the future. When I explain my approach to Project Management or QA Testing,
or whatever, sometimes I get asked if that's how I've done things in the past
and when I say yes the interview is very short.

Maybe that second paragraph is how I phrase things, but if you've got
experience in a subject matter you're going to base what you would do, on what
your experience has taught you.

Sometimes it sounds like people want a completely new process that's never
been done before, or at least isn't attributed to some other company having
done.

------
marincounty
I don't take advise from guy's who come from rich families. Yes--it might
sound like envy, or class warfare, but I have found their world is very
differnt than mine. What worked for them usually won't work for me. My world
is loaded with wealthy know-it-alls. They always leave out the part where
Daddy paid for this, or that--or the family lawyer quietly set up everything.
I have found one truth; It seems like the most ingenious ideas, and talent
came from individuals with modest upbringings. This goes 10 fold for artists
and writers. I once hear George Soros complain that his writing isn't taken
seriously because of his wealth. I read some of his rants and that's not the
reason George. At least you were honest about how you made your money though?
(George Soros is one of the 1 %'s). I once heard the best advise is no advise.
I think that is way too extreme. I just wish people with the real talent, or
insight would step forward. But no, they always seem to be at the back of a
room, or quietly trying to hold on their own sanity. Yea--but this is about
programming, and basking in the glory of a great Start-Up. The Gold Rush?

------
levlandau
The following kinds of interactions are useful to founders:

1) Simply talking about another person's startup with them for more than an
hour makes that person feel like they are not alone in a world seemingly
filled with Googlers and Facebookers. I think the feeling of solidarity here
sometimes even trumps whatever silly advice you might be giving.

2) Making meetings feel more like brainstorm sessions helps. I think there is
value in "experience" and "expertise" or even just raw intelligence. I'm
pretty sure that it's wise to listen to PG's thoughts on your idea even if
it's to sharpen your views and beliefs. But the key to these being productive
is people asking questions, thinking from first principles and being honest
about the experiences they are trying to relate to each other. Needless to say
people shouldn't force things on founders and founders should be smart enough
to test things quickly and discard them if they are silly.

------
mindcrime
Good stuff, @javery. But you know I'm always down to hear your advice, or
stories, or whatever!

That said, the biggest thing I agree with here is this: You can't _really_
gain a proper appreciation of someone's problems, their thought processes, and
the full context of what they've already tried, thought of, discarded,
considered, reconsidered, etc., in a few minutes. Of the "annoying" advice
I've gotten, it's usually been the kind that leaves me going "Dude, that
totally has _nothing_ to do with the business we're in" OR "Yeah, yeah, we
already tried that and it doesn't work" or whatever.

That's why I like your (current) approach. I pretty much never mind hearing
somebody relate a story, and if it isn't helpful, well, whatever. But at least
it doesn't present the air of presumptuousness and arrogance that just
blasting into "oh, do this" and "oh, do that" does.

------
hosh
Furthermore, narratives are powerful ways of communicating. In the old days,
we had teaching stories around the campfire. We have folklore, myths, and
origin stories. These days, they are now novels, and inspirational speakers
relating experiences.

It's fun to sit around a campfire in the dark, though I suppose the smell of
coffee is a good substitute :-)

~~~
hosh
To followup on my comments above and respond a bit to some of the other
comments. I used to do exactly what that guy did a lot, though the advice I
dispensed were not with startups.

Now, I am relating from my experience, partly because I have experience to
relate to, and partly because the attitude I assume is one of _offering_ or
making available the experience. It's an invitation to hear it, rather than me
trying to be a hero and fix something that's wrong.

One tricky thing is that it doesn't appeal to everyone. There are a class of
people who are so inside their own narratives, they resent it when someone
brings up their narrative. They feel that I am trying to horn in on their
drama.

Typically, these days, I've been practicing the acceptance of people as they
are, right now. If someone _actually_ asks me for advice, I do the best I can.
I still sometimes slip and say something, but (with the kind of inner work I
am doing) that has been becoming less and less frequent. It does screen out
the people who are still inside their drama; I watch them, practice
compassionate witnessing, and just let 'em be.

~~~
ZenoArrow
I like your approach, and you've helped me understand something just now about
the 'invitation to hear'. The 'inside their own narratives' makes sense too.

------
mtrimpe
The talk "How I learned to stop fixing and start facilitating" from DareConf
2013 [1] really describes the core issue here very well.

No matter how much you want to, you just can't always fix things for people in
the small interactions that you have with them.

And even fixing it for them isn't actually helpful unless you'll be there in
the long run to take that responsibility for them.

That's why, even though it's hard and will make you feel less powerful, all
you can do in these small moments is facilitate.

It's about not asking the question "How should (s)he fix this?" but "What can
I do in this amount of time we have together to have the greatest positive
impact on you?"

[1] [http://2013.dareconf.com/videos/wachter-
boettcher](http://2013.dareconf.com/videos/wachter-boettcher)

------
davmar
I'm a member of EO (entrepreneurs' organization) to which he referred in the
article. He's referring to the "gestalt protocol". You can read more about it
here: [http://www.chiefoptimizer.com/357/entrepreneur/gestalt-
proto...](http://www.chiefoptimizer.com/357/entrepreneur/gestalt-protocol/)

Another value is, when speaking in a group (we call it 'forum'), experiences
benefit everyone who listens whereas advice is only applicable to the intended
listener.

An illustrative example is "I did X and Y was the outcome" vs. "You should X".

Sometimes we find it limiting however, and ask that people not use the gestalt
protocol. That's the exception to the rule.

~~~
arnarbi
That link is a 404, both in your comment and in the updated post.

~~~
davmar
odd. it worked when i posted it and it's still in google search results. maybe
they pulled it today. here's another one:
[http://www.stathakis.com/blog/leadership/bid/320702/What-
is-...](http://www.stathakis.com/blog/leadership/bid/320702/What-is-Gestalt-
and-Why-You-Need-To-Know-It)

------
jcampbell1
I believe I learn nothing from failure, and a ton from success. When something
fails, I don't know if it was a bad idea, bad execution, bad timing, the wrong
people, etc. When something works, I generally learn a ton and it inspires
other good ideas.

It is not until you have racked up a bunch of failures and successes that you
realize an idea braindump isn't particularly helpful. When someone starts
offering a braindump of ideas, I generally assume the person just hasn't had a
bunch of success and failures that are relevant.

I think the author's change is natural, as you can't say "Here is what worked
for us..." until you have actually had some wins.

------
plg
isn't this actually veiled advice-giving, i.e. "don't give advice" ?

~~~
stevesearer
I think the author's point is more along the lines of "don't offer ideas
veiled as advice" and that advice is rooted in experience.

------
bigchewy
EO (where the OP first heard of this concept) was life changing for me.

The key thing that I learned was that gestalt (as Don't Give Advice is called
in EO) helps conversations stay positive rather than defensive. When I receive
advice, I sometimes perceive it as "why haven't you done this yet" and my
internal response might be "hey, I'm friggin' busy'

Experience sharing gives me the opportunity to say, "hey, that makes sense.
I'd like to do [X] and can you help me explore how to do it?"

Since EO, my conversations, both on the giving and receiving end of advice,
have been far far more productive.

------
incision
_> "such an asshole", "had the nerve", "What an asshole"_

In my experience, only the most cocksure of people would react to the kind of
simple brainstorming suggestion cited in that way.

Perhaps those people are over-represented among those who have self-selected
as entrepreneurs and this is appropriate for that context.

For dealing the rest of the world I'll go ahead and be a flaming asshole by
advising that learning to stop being mortally offended by well-meaning, benign
suggestions might be worth looking into.

------
dragontamer
I dunno. If you don't know what you're talking about, its that much more
important to talk about it. Otherwise, you'll forever be ignorant.

It sucks when you talk about something and then learn that you're an idiot.
But more importantly, you _learn_ that you're a dumb idiot, and then you try
to do something about it.

Teaching someone else (even if they know the subject better than you) is
sometimes the best way to learn a subject.

So continue being the dumb guy who gives advice. It helps you become smarter.

------
IvanK_net
His whole post is one long advice :D

~~~
javery
Actually it isn't - it's a story about how I learned to better help others. :)

------
richardw
It's great advice not to be that type of asshole when you've done nothing, but
it's also true that one of the pillars of YC success is someone who doesn't
necessarily know your niche telling you what you're doing right/wrong.

Sometimes advice is about the niche, sometimes it's about time management,
time-to-market, hiring, firing, whatever. The answer has to be about balance -
sometimes you know better, sometimes you don't.

------
ZenoArrow
Is it just me, or does any one else here actually enjoy brainstorming
solutions to issues, even if the issues are my own?

I think the difference is that if someone gives you advice you don't agree
with, it's important to (politely) say why you see things differently. Perhaps
the problem is less that people share their advice, and more that there is a
reluctance to engage with others to work something out. I really enjoy a good
debate.

------
andykmaguire
This is a really good, thoughtful article. I've had the same experience as
more founders reach out and seek advice, but rarely do I strongly suggest a
path that hasn't already been considered. Even if they disagree, just telling
them to go a different way for xyz conceptual reasons isn't going to change
their mind. Given them specific experiences to compare against is much more
effective.

Thanks for putting this out there.

------
agumonkey
This impatience to project my own point of view onto everything cost me a lot.
I don't dismiss my ideas now, but I try to investigate people's history and
current state of affairs. Maybe they didn't think about it, but even then,
they're not in a position to handle a change, or even the idea of a flaw that
may be fixable.

------
arfliw
This is probably why speakers at YC tell stories based on their experiences -
and thus do not just give blanket advice.

------
Cowicide
This is very similar to the tactic Ben Franklin would use to avoid mindless
back-and-forth arguments with people that put ego ahead of rationale. He'd
simply try to show by example and leave it at that. I'm not sure it works very
well online all the time, but in person it does work, IMO.

------
brianmcdonough
Giving advice doesn't make OP an asshole. In fact, listening and making
adjustments to a life strategy is one of the hardest things to do on a
personal level, in my opinion.

Glad to see you are blogging again and quite effectively at that. This was at
the top spot on HN this morning.

------
pothibo
Unsolicited advice are a pain in the ass 99% of the time.

The biggest problematic with advice is that you gave them against information
you have received. Vision is much more than a few sentences.

Outsiders' short-term advice are most of the time contradictory to long-term
vision.

------
MyNameIsMK
"But the key point is that is always BS when the person you are talking to
thinks he knows better about your business than you. And that there are some
obvious thing you should and you aren't doing it that will fix your startup."

YES. YES. ON POINT.

------
jpdavy
James, have to say that I have shared this notion. I stopped taking meetings a
little while ago for this reason. I think this is a great experience that you
have related here, and I love the conclusion you arrived at.

------
3minus1
I don't think this guy was being an asshole for offering advice when people
sought him out as an expert. Perhaps he is being more tactful with his new
approach, but he definitely wasn't being an asshole imo.

~~~
Zmetta
Though I agree, I think many people mistakenly interpret direct suggestions as
being commentary on the junior-person/company Y's flaws and might be seen as
more aggressive (asshole-ish)than having a senior-person/company X point out
their own flaws. That makes X seem more humble, and more importantly, depicts
success in the face of struggle as more attainable. I really think that's what
provides the most benefit from his new approach; successful person/company X
is not some mysterious deity that simply exists, it is the product of actions
taken throughout the same process junior person/company Y has recently faced,
is facing, or will face. Junior person/company Y may make, or have already
made, different decisions or actions at various steps and, for better or
worse, will be different because of it.

------
bharatFNS
Listen to everyone and do what I find best, this has been my philosophy in
life. I hate self-helps, I think you are better off not trying to tell people
your way of live thinking them to follow. Crap!

------
xivzgrev
Wow. This is a really interesting article, probably the most I've seen for a
while on here (guess you can see what I value). I've been on both sides of
this issue.

Thanks for the post.

------
udkl
You sir need to read "How to Win Friends ... " ... what you describe/realized
is but a basic communication rule .... though you describe a nice result ...

------
dinkumthinkum
I guess this is good advertising for Adzerk, I never heard of that and never
knew there were that many people banging down the door to get at its founders.
Interesting.

------
batoure
Irony?

------
elwell
I saw a lot of advice in that article, but not one recount of an actual
experience where it worked well.

/tongue-in-cheek

------
vonnik
isn't this a sort of indirect form of advice? reminds me of this:
[http://imgur.com/NIqQB](http://imgur.com/NIqQB)

------
piyushpr134
Adzerk ? Seriously!

------
mhaberler
fixable by sticking to a simple rule: never give help (including advice)
nobody asked for.

------
fring00
One last one to end them all.

------
hyp0
advice is opinion, experience fact

------
seanhandley
Good advice +1

------
andyl
There is a related phenomena called 'well actually'.

[http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html](http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html)

~~~
badman_ting
Heh. Some people I follow on twitter often get people responding to their
jokes and intentionally non-factual tweets with "Well, actually…". Which led
to their labeling this practice "#ACTUALLY" and the people who do it
"#ACTUALLY twitter".

I really dig how people are starting to nail the social tone-deafness and
misplaced pride in trivial knowledge this involves. It doesn't mean you're
smart, it means you're dumb in a way you probably don't even grasp.

------
raymondduke
Nice diary entry. How'd this get to the top of HN?

~~~
roryokane
I’m guessing a lot of readers feel that this is helpful information to keep in
mind when _they_ are asked for help by others.

