
Do you think we are stupid? - pius
http://blog.obiefernandez.com/content/2008/01/if-theres-a-pos.html
======
jawngee
Yes, I think you are stupid.

Not because you use rails or ruby, but because you even care about such
trivial bullshit. I use PHP everyday, but do you see me crying about the
insane amount of whipping it takes on my blog? Well, I don't have a blog
because I'm too busy building shit, but you get my drift.

Yes I think you are stupid because you are polarized on the issue to the point
that you can't see any validity in an opinion outside your own. You are
religious about something where agnoticism gets you paid better and more
frequently.

Christian vs Muslim vs Jew == Java vs Ruby vs PHP vs ... I think the smarter
people are the ones who can set aside differences and gleam usefulness from
all things.

Sorry on a 2 day code bender so I'm a little disjointed in my thought process,
but this is pretty close to how I feel about it. Apologies for the cursing.

~~~
sspencer
+1 Hell Yes.

I am so sick of Rails advocates. Take a page out of Theo's book: "Shut up and
hack!"

~~~
tbmcmullen
And yet you're not sick of the, probably equal number of, idiots who can't
seem to stop shouting inflammatory, misleading, and often -wrong- things about
it?

Frankly, I wish both extremes would just kill each other off.

------
bfioca
This entire argument frustrates me. Let me just go on record as saying this is
childish. Hype or fad is never a reason to use or abandon any programming
language or framework. Rails is useful, period. It has an extremely broad
community of libraries and plugings, and it makes developing applications
CHEAP and FAST and, yes, even GOOD. That's why people use it - so they can
start startups lightning fast, or compete with the bigger companies who are
using heftier languages and frameworks.

------
samson
Me thinks there's too much self love in the ruby community. Build more great
stuff and you'll have done a better job of convincing me then with these weak
arguments I keep on reading.

------
imsteve
After watching the hype bubble that surrounded java implode, could you really
blame us for saying yes?

~~~
jimbokun
Java is on a very short list of the world's most used programming languages.
This strikes me as another case of "people overestimate a new technology's
effect over the next five years and underestimate its effect over the next 10
years."

Java did not replace existing desktop software. But it took over most
enterprise web server-side development and in the process helped to make most
enterprise desktop software development irrelevant.

So, perhaps the initial hype did not play out exactly as expected. But the
success of Java does suggest the level of hype was justified, if misdirected.

~~~
bfioca
When I started using Java in 1996 - people looked at me funny and asked why I
wasn't using C++. Everyone said Java was a fad and that it wouldn't scale.

~~~
tx
It was. And it didn't. Very few applications have been created in Java. Java
stuck in the isolated server environment, but _everything_ survives there,
since servers are like zoos: easily controlled environment where animals get
exactly what they need without losing body parts in the wild. You can build
your own toy language and it will work perfectly fine on your server.

~~~
cstejerean
Java doesn't scale? Really? A lot of work has been put into java since the
beginning to make it fast. Jruby for example is faster than C Ruby. Java might
not be adequate for web development (I never liked the initial model and by
the time better frameworks came out I had given up) but there are many
applications where it really shines.

~~~
tx
Jesus... "Java is faster than C" argument again. Inferiority complex aside, I
did not mean scaling in a technical way. Java did not scale out as a general
purpose programming language - it remained foreign and inadequate on all major
platforms and, as a result, no software (in comparison to C family) has been
done in it, with a notable exception of zoo-like server environments. Go into
Debian packages repository and see for yourself. Or, for Windows users, into
your C:\Program Files folder.

I hope nobody will be stupid enough to start listing (one by one, literally)
Java software projects, like Eclipse, Lucene, etc.

------
mattmaroon
In what universe has Rails eclipsed PHP? It sure isn't this one.

~~~
icky
The moon eclipses the sun, but it's still a lot smaller... :)

~~~
derefr
Is there a Dark Side of the Rails? And is that in any way similar to the Wrong
Side of the Tracks?

~~~
sbraford
I know you were mostly kidding, but it made me think.

Yes -- the Dark Side of rails is the (obvious) realization that it's still
just a framework (built on the ruby language), in which just as crappy code
can be written as any PHP, Python, Java, C++, etc application.

There is no panacea. No escape 100% from the ability to shoot yourself in the
foot. No silver bullet.

Nor has any rails fanboi (to my knowledge) said rails was ever any of that...
but Yes, the Obies of the world really should just ignore the flameboys at
this point in the RoR lifecycle.

------
rapind
Who cares

