
U.F.C. Sells Itself for $4B - philangist
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/business/dealbook/ufc-sells-itself-for-4-billion.html
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seanalltogether
The success of the UFC is fascinating to me. I really disliked the culture of
MMA back in the early 2000s, but nowadays I love the sport. The technical
skill of these guys fighting is amazing, and the near monopoly of the UFC has
actually created a situation where big fights are constantly happening, rather
then the years of negotiation that some boxing matches have required.

As ownership now diversifies among several groups, so will the focus of the
UFC, and I'm curious how that will affect things going forward.

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partisan
I disliked UFC until I watched it. At that time, I was very much into going to
the gym and working out and that seemed to bring out some aggression that the
UFC absorbed. Lately, I just can't see it as anything more than brutality. I
guess I realize we live in such violent times and we are surrounded by it. The
last thing I can do now is kick back and watch a violent sport to decompress
from it all.

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oxide
I don't find the UFC brutal at all. Even when the fights get bloody.

I don't wince when someone is getting punched the UFC. But watching an
innocent man be killed in cold blood? That's brutality.

The fights usually end with a hug or a handshake, there is a mutual respect
for the sport, and for each other, that lessens the impact of the "violence"
IMO.

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carsongross
The long-term effects on UFC athletes (most of whom are throw-away, and will
never be known) is going to make boxing look like handbags at twenty paces.

Admitting the technical and athletic virtuosity of many of the participants,
and the honorable nature of many of the fights, it is a disgustingly violent
sport.

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oxide
I disagree. I can't think of a single sport where the athletes _aren 't_
throw-away. That's what sports do. They suck the livelyhood out of their
competitors for the pleasure of spectators.

American Football leaves people broken physically and mentally. Boxing causes
a slow-building brain damage that leaves legends like Ali a shaking,
stuttering mess until their dying day. You're only wanted in Basketball until
your knee gives out.

Injuries are career-ending for any athlete, in any sport. I personally find
Hockey more "disgustingly violent" than the UFC.

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carsongross
Do you see a moral difference between violence-as-a-byproduct of a goal and
violence-as-the-goal? If not, do you see how someone else might? Are you
familiar with the tu quoque fallacy?

I will of course not convince you of much via a HN comment thread, this is for
the others.

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oxide
>Do you see a moral difference between violence-as-a-byproduct of a goal and
violence-as-the-goal

Yes. I just don't think it applies to the UFC. Violence is not the goal of the
UFC. It isn't a bloodsport, it isn't cockfighting. Moral arguments hold no
water with me in regards to the UFC.

If you tune in to the UFC just to watch someone get the shit kicked out of
them, you're missing the point entirely.

Personally, I watch the UFC to see two athletes of equal skill compete in what
I consider a sport. Many fights end with zero blood. Some fights end in
seconds. Blood is a very much a by-product IMO, not the end goal.

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softawre
> That's like watching NASCAR in the hopes that someone will die in a fiery
> car crash.

You do realize that is exactly the reason most people watch Nascar, right?

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oxide
not my best analogy.

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jtuente
Honestly, it was a good analogy. GP is as outside of NASCAR as he is of the
UFC.

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rrggrr
Either the UFC $4B valuation is way too high, or Disney stole the Star Wars
franchise from Lucas films. The disparity in revenue on a historical or
annualized basis is huge.

[http://fortune.com/2015/12/24/star-wars-value-
worth](http://fortune.com/2015/12/24/star-wars-value-worth)

~~~
slg
Sports assets costs huge amounts of money and their value will only continue
to increase as sports becomes the only real televised media that requires live
viewing. In team sports, the top teams are generally valued in the $2-3
billion dollar range. This deal basically equates all of UFC to the cost of
two middle of the road NFL teams or two of the more valuable NBA/MLB teams.

~~~
wesd
The only difference between UFC and other leagues is that UFC only has 100
million per year guaranteed income from TV rights. Most of of their revenue
(600 million last year) is based on gate and pay per views which can fluctuate
based headlines and injuries etc.

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neves
I'm Brazilian. UFC is a big success here.

Sometimes we think that Humanity is evolving, but then we see that we are back
to the gladiators era. This stuff makes me really sad:-(

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atom-morgan
This is controlled, isolated, and voluntary violence. Why would it make you
sad? I think it's fantastic.

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powercf
I can't speak for the GP, but it's (apparent) popularity worries me. It is a
brutal sport, with some of the dregs of society participating at the highest
levels (here's an interview between two competitors:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTzhVVIjLCE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTzhVVIjLCE)).
I don't think I would have an issue with UFC etc. if the fighters could show a
little class and some respect for each other. As it stands I think it supplies
very bad role-models for teenage and 20 year old males it is surely popular
with.

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lightbyte
Those interviews are all for show and to build up hype, they don't actually
dislike each other.

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morsch
I'm not sure which is worse.

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chain18
I think the worst part is that the fake hype works :/

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samfisher83
I think the athletes in the UFC are kind of getting screwed. Floyd Mayweather
made more money in one fight than every UFC athlete has made combined since
the UFC started.

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paulpauper
Floyd Mayweather alone sells millions of tickets ..that's why he makes so much

~~~
bluecalm
Still, I think it's fair point that fighters in boxing capture more of a
revenue than fighters in UFC. UFC is very young though, unionization and
revenue % negotiations are bound to happen as they did in any other popular
professional sport.

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ourmandave
They bought it for $2 million. And then poured time and money into getting it
considered a legitimate sport, spun off a reality show, promoted it's stars,
and cranked out the merchandise. Branding 101, etc.

~~~
icpmacdo
They brought it to this point but my hope is now the new owners can turn it
into a more legitimate sport. As an example right now the UFC is setting up a
fighter named Dan Henderson to fight for the middle weight title just because
its a rematch with the current champ Michael Bisping and is a big money making
opportunity for the company. If you look at his record[0] though he's 3-3 in
his last 6 fights and is passing people much more deserving of a title shot[1]
if the new owners have a more defined system for championship fights it will
eliminate the biggest issue I think the UFC currently has.

These new owners are in a position to make buckets of money. There online
subscription service FightPass is apparently super popular and I could see a
new tier being added they would include the PPV cards for $30 or $40 a month.
I hope Joe Rogan stays as a commentator even though he has said he will leave
if the company sell's.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Henderson#Mixed_martial_ar...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Henderson#Mixed_martial_arts_record)
[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo_Souza#Mixed_martial_ar...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo_Souza#Mixed_martial_arts_record)

~~~
proc0
This is why currently the UFC is more like WWE in that respect. They care more
about the marketing then about the sport. No big league team sport would do
this in a championship. The pairing of contestants has to happen in a
predictable system that rewards skills within the sport itself.

Unfortunately whenever this is mentioned, fanboys like to argue that it comes
down to selling tickets etc., which is true unless you care about the sport
and its integrity. As a martial artist I would much rather have an unpopular
tournament that stays true to its core values for the sake of promoting the
sport as an art form, even if this means that the champion will have the most
boring style of fighting (in fact, if there ever is a champion that has a
boring style that would indeed be interesting).

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aljones
So about 2 NBA teams.

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mrtron
Yes, so pretty amazing. And potentially a really high ceiling from here.

~~~
dajohnson89
Without knowing the balance sheet, etc, I consider $4B kinda low for what is
effectively a pop culture phenomenon.

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ctvo
I'm an MMA fan who grew up watching Pride (Fedor, Shogun, etc.).

I never became a fan of the UFC. Little things like the lack of production
value for the graphics, the commentators (Mike Goldberg makes me cringe), to
the need to use ring girls bothered me. I couldn't get over how low class and
over commercialized it felt.

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cm3
I didn't know what UFC is, so looking it up I saw that there's a European
version which has teams competing. I can't tell how legitimate it is, since it
also has teams comprised of seemingly football(soccer) hooligans. If so, it
sounds like a better stress relief than engaging at a football(soccer) match.

[https://teamsfight.com/](https://teamsfight.com/)

[https://www.youtube.com/c/teamsfight77/videos](https://www.youtube.com/c/teamsfight77/videos)

~~~
sliverstorm
Never participated in MMA, but when I trained BJJ (which is a big piece of
MMA), was pretty stress relieving.

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salimmadjd
UFC is a bit like NFL except instead of just a 3-4 month season, it has a 12
month season and it has international appeal.

However, unlike NFL it doesn't have a league that can control expansion or
prevent others to compete in its market. In other words, UFC is a brand and
it's a brand that is not fully understood and it's hard to predict what the
loyalty to this brand is. So the buyers are taking a big risk. They're buying
into UFCs reach via FOX, etc. But the market is prime from other players to
take away market share.

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buckbova
UFC has worked hard to scoop up the competition like strike force and others.
They also have strict contracts with their fighters to keep them from
competing in other leagues. There's been several anti-trust lawsuits already.

[http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2299031-ufc-sued-by-
fight...](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2299031-ufc-sued-by-fighters-in-
class-action-lawsuit-latest-details-and-reaction)

[http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/12037883/antitrust-
lawsuit...](http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/12037883/antitrust-lawsuit-
filed-ufc-parent-company-claims-monopoly)

~~~
aidenn0
I'm surprised those contracts are enforceable without a CBA in place.

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unwind
Mods: please consider expanding the acronym (Ultimate Fighting Championship,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship))
for the title. I had to click just to find out what it was about. Thanks.

