
The secret of Finland's stellar schools - chrismealy
http://theweek.com/article/index/249613/the-secret-of-finlands-stellar-schools
======
rayiner
This is an excellent article, but may I suggest an alternative theory: the
lack of emphasis on education in the U.S., at least historically, has been a
sign of the strength of the U.S. economy, not a weakness of the culture. From
World War II until the 1990's, Europe's economy was stagnant, while the
American economy was dynamic.

From 1975 to 1985, Finland's annual GDP growth rate averaged from 0-2%,
peaking at 4%. The U.S's averaged around 5%, peaking near 15% and nearing 10%
several years. You can use this site to compare:
[http://www.tradingeconomics.com/finland/gdp-
growth](http://www.tradingeconomics.com/finland/gdp-growth).

Fast economic growth means that education isn't as necessary to differentiate
yourself and get a good job.

~~~
dragonwriter
> This is an excellent article, but may I suggest an alternative theory: the
> lack of emphasis on education in the U.S., at least historically, has been a
> sign of the strength of the U.S. economy, not a weakness of the culture.

A better theory might be a synthesis of those: it has been a sign of a
weakness of the culture _produced by_ the long-term strength of the economy
(and which, itself, produces a prospective long-term weakness that threatens
to counteract the long-term strength that produced it.)

~~~
drzaiusapelord
This. A bunch of meatheads who don't feel compelled to be part of their kids
education because they managed to buy homes and get solid jobs at 18 with a HS
diploma is the legacy we need to correct. Fleeing to private schools or the
best suburban districts has been the plan for a long time, which is nice for
those who can afford it.

~~~
wyclif
Meh. I think the "meatheads=people with only HS diplomas" equation is facile.
If you're speaking specifically about blue-collar workers, it's still pretty
insulting, but you could probably make a better case with that differentiation
up front.

Practically speaking, there is nothing sacrosanct about a college degree. It
is the educational system, with its bureaucratic filtering mechanisms,
elitism, and status-consciousness that has turned it into a humanist
sacrament. Education need not be formal for it to be both valuable to the
student and the society he/she lives in.

~~~
dragonwriter
I think by "meatheads" GP means people who undervalue education on the basis
of "I succeeded without much of it" (failing to understand the contribution of
a particular social context to that success) and thereby promote a culture
which undermines the context which allowed them to succeed. (The specifical
example he gave was people _with only_ a HS diploma, not people _without_ one,
but I think that example was, in any case, illustrative of the problem, not an
exhaustive equivalence; nor do I think "blue collar workers" is the right
generalization from the example.)

There's plenty of people (blue collar and otherwise) that succeeded with only
(or even without) a HS diploma that _don 't_ undervalue education, and they
don't meet GP's description of the meatheads he is talking about.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
Well it's not like American education teaches people about social context and
how much it matters.

That would be _Communist_.

~~~
tptacek
What does this even mean? Is this a Markov criticism, or do you really think
US public schools don't teach kids about "social contexts"? From what I can
tell, as the parent of a high schooler and a middle schooler, social contexts
and algebra problems are the core of the curricula.

------
InvisibleCities
There is another very glaring difference between the Finnish and American
educational system that the article ignores - there are no private schools in
Finland. Everyone in Finland, no matter how wealthy or politically connected,
sends their kids to the same schools. It shouldn't be surprising that powerful
people in Finland care so deeply about the quality of their public school
teachers when those teachers are responsible their own children's education.
In America, nearly all of the upper class send their children to private
schools, so why would our congresspeople/senators/grovernors/mayors/etc. care
about public schools when their own kids don't go there?

~~~
AndyNemmity
In my opinion a more important effect of this is that the upper class children
with better role models do not become role models for the other children.

~~~
Kudzu_Bob
In my opinion a more important effect of this is that the lower class children
do not become role models for the other children.

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bostik
I did my junior high ("lukio") in one of these schools that also double as
teacher graduate training ground. There's one thing in the article which I
feel bares a mention.

 _" For one full year of her master's program, Stara got to train in one of
the best public schools in the country. She had three teacher mentors there,
and she watched their classes closely. When she taught her own classes, her
mentors and fellow student teachers took notes."_

There's one very important bit missing: the _students_ also give their own
feedback. In writing.

I didn't understand how valuable this is while I was still in the school, but
have begun to appreciate it in later age. These schools the teacher graduates
are mentored in are among the elite in Finland. So not only are the mentoring
teachers some of the best in country, _the students are too_.

And believe me, in the ripe age of 16-18, we're a cruel bunch. Feedback from
that kind of target audience, on what works or doesn't, and why... That's
valuable. Even to the current staff.

The best feedback we got in turn was that some of the other graduates had
actually changed their teaching plans. And the mentoring teachers were _proud_
of that!

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shoraishi
These "news" of giving Finland's school system praise seem to surface all the
time and every time they do, they are also big headlines in Finnish yellow
press news, glorified to a massive extent "C'MON, WE CAN DO IT!". I'm a 25
year old finnish man, my only education is grade school, I've been to high
school twice, both times resulting in my dropping out, because I just haven't
had a clue what to do. This isn't rare, most of the people I know have no
education . Even companies such as Rovio have made a program of recruiting
specifically people who've fallen off the education system, teaching them from
ground up what to do for the task they are hired for. Not even going to talk
about youth employment in general.

Every time I read these news, I become sad, like there's some hidden secret
that's never been told to me.

My assumption is that news reporters or whatever are taken to few elite
schools, so, pretty basic journalism.

~~~
kyberias
I'm sorry, what was your point again? Tens of thousands graduate from high
school every single year in Finland. From all kinds of backgrounds. If you
didn't graduate, are you sure the system is to blame?

~~~
shoraishi
My point is that these news and/or articles are bullshit propaganda and their
sole purpose is reassign the blame of the decline of American or whatever
education system elsewhere. Whatever the ulterior motive is.

And no, the system isn't the only thing to blame, if I would've gone to the
summer long paid coaching courses, I'm sure I would've done a lot better.

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atlanticus
If you compare Finland to Massachusetts, which is a more reasonable
comparison, it does not look quite as stellar. Conversely if you compare
Massachusetts to all Europe including the south and east then Europe looks
pretty bad.

------
newnewnew
The secret of Finland's stellar schools is Finns[1], combines with an
immigration policy that borders on xenophobia. Why do Finnish students score
better than Swedish students?

[1] [http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-
is...](http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-
in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k)

~~~
sampo
This blog [1] claims, and the reference 11 therein (or directly [2]) shows,
that the Swedish-speaking Finns score lower than Finnish-speaking Finns. It
pretty much cannot be explained by socio-economic status, as Swedish-speaking
Finns have higher socio-economic status than Finnish-speaking Finns. So the
blog conjectures that it might be related to the languages.

[1] [http://finnish-and-pisa.blogspot.fi/](http://finnish-and-
pisa.blogspot.fi/) [2]
[http://ktl.jyu.fi/img/portal/8317/PISA_2003_screen.pdf](http://ktl.jyu.fi/img/portal/8317/PISA_2003_screen.pdf)

------
Florin_Andrei
> _In Finland, all education schools were selective. Getting into a teacher-
> training program there was as prestigious as getting into medical school in
> the United States._

Immediate implication: teachers are actually paid well over there. The job is
actually desirable and respected.

> _At the education college, Bethel discovered that he didn 't have to major
> in math to become a high school math teacher. So he didn't. Nationwide, less
> than half of American high school math teachers majored in math. Almost a
> third did not even minor in math._

Quick note: I've a degree in Physics. They pumped so much math into us all in
college, I could easily teach high-school math. Easily.

~~~
kami8845
Easily?

~~~
TheCraiggers
I presume he means he has the mathematical aptitude to teach high-school math,
which (at least in my area) maxes out at trig in most schools and Calc 1 in
the bigger ones.

To teach as an adjunct, that's about all you need to teach. If you want to be
good at it, some genuine compassion for your students will help there. If you
want to be awesome at it, you'll typically need the above plus some training
in the proper ways to educate, motivate, etc.

Source: married to a college math teacher.

------
gima
Small tidbit of info: In Finland students don't pay for studying. Instead, the
government pays money to the students for studying. I've heard this is not the
case in US.

------
dventimi
Let's throw a cold splash of reality onto the treasured fairy tale about
Finland's "stellar schools." What do the data say? One place to look is at the
standardized assessment tests designed to (among other things) make
international comparisons. The National Center for Education Statistics relies
largely on three: the Program for International Assessment (PISA), the Trends
in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS), and the Progress in
International Reading Literacy Study (PIRLS). For brevity, let's pick math
using PIRLS, which is also nice because it breaks out some U.S. states
separately. Cherry-picking the data, consider these scores for 8th-grade math
students in 2011.

Finland: 514

U.S. White, not Hispanic: 530

Massachusetts: 561

Massachusetts Black, not Hispanic: 516

Massachusetts Hispanic: 507

"Stellar" Finland's 8th graders are bested in math by America's white 8th
graders overall, by Massachusetts 8th graders overall by a wide margin, and by
Massachusetts black 8th graders, and Massachusetts's Hispanic 8th graders come
close. Why choose Massachusetts? Partly, because I'm cherry-picking one of our
best-performing states. But I think that's defensible because it also closely
matches Finland demographically. The U.S. has 300+ million people, Finland
only 5+ million; Massachusetts has 6+ million, and it approaches Finland in
terms of racial homogeneity.

Now, before anyone gets excited, I am NOT making a racial argument, saying
that white kids are somehow "better." However, it is an unfortunate,
incontrovertible fact that in the U.S., white and Asian kids outperform Black
and Hispanic kids currently. We can argue about why that might be and long for
the day when it's no longer true, but while we've made great strides and hope
to make more in the future, we're not there yet. Given that, comparing tiny
Finland with its greater ethnic and socioeconomic homogeneity to enormous and
diverse America (with, by the way, 400+ years of institutionalized racism) is
intellectually dishonest.

I am also not claiming these few data points to be definitive. There are other
tests (PISA and PIRLS), other subjects (language and science), other grades, a
patchwork of yearly coverage, and other measures. Certainly, on some Finland
does come out on top. On others, the U.S. does.

I am also not criticizing Finland or saying we have nothing to learn from
them. No doubt, they have some wonderful teachers, delightful kids, and some
important lessons for the rest of the world. But we also have some wonderful
teachers, delightful kids, and given our unique challenges we're actually
doing quite well (though we can and will do better).

What I am claiming is that there is a myth about Finland's educational prowess
that gets told and retold, that is much too simplistic, that evaporates when
confronted with actual data, that probably serves the interests of certain
"educational reformers", and that is not a helpful part of an informed,
rational debate about education policy in the U.S.

~~~
Jhsto
Do you have source on this, since I cannot recall any standardized assesments
which would have been done nation wide in Finland on 8th grade.

~~~
dventimi
Unfortunately, the best I can do is provide a link to the TIMSS Data Explorer
(click the link for "TIMSS IDE"):

[http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/international/ide/](http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/international/ide/)

After agreeing to the terms, you can choose:

1\. Subject matter (I chose math)

2\. Grade (I chose 8th)

3\. Jurisdiction (U.S., Finland, Massachusetts, etc.)

4\. Variable (ethnicity, income, etc.)

5\. Years (not every year has data for every variable)

Not every combination of year, jurisdiction, and variable has data (e.g.,
Finland doesn't seem to disaggregate by race).

When I built the report for Finland, it included a caveat about issues that
"interfere with proper trend analysis", presumably by year, so I avoided that.

------
denzil_correa
Finland also doesn't have any homework for its students. There's a very nice
Infographic which offers an in-depth look about Finland's educational system.

[http://www.onlineclasses.org/resources/no-homework-in-
finlan...](http://www.onlineclasses.org/resources/no-homework-in-finland/)

Edit - It seems they have "less HW" and not "no HW".

~~~
shoraishi
Finland does have homework and it is a part of getting your grades (ie. don't
do homework, you'll fail). I wonder what their source is.

~~~
denzil_correa
Thank you for your correction. It seems they have "less homework" and not "no
homework".

------
Gravityloss
Maybe also because other professions in the private sector don't pay so much
better, compared to US.

~~~
jlgreco
Probably fairer to instead say _" Maybe because teachers aren't paid so much
worse than other professions in the private sector"_. This emphasizes that
high private sector salaries are not the problem, rather low teacher salaries
are.

~~~
konstantintin
what evidence is there that teachers are underpaid in the US when you look at
total compensation?

~~~
jlgreco
Have you ever talked with a young teacher? Ask them how they're doing on
paying back those student loans.

~~~
kyberias
Is that evidence?

~~~
jlgreco
_My edit that didn 't go through for some reason:_

We're not talking about total compensation, we're talking about salary.

Have you ever talked with a young teacher? Ask them how they're doing on
paying back those student loans. Several people I went to highschool^ with are
currently working as teachers (several more are still _looking_ for teaching
jobs. The surplus of people looking to get into education certainly doesn't
help...). While I had my student loans paid off quite some time ago, they are
still floundering. Although they love 'their kids', more than one has confided
in me that they don't know what the hell they were thinking.

Salary, specifically how it will enable them to pay back their loans, is the
sort of thing that young people in university consider when they are decided
whether they want to go into industry or education. Total compensation doesn't
really enter the equation at that stage.

When the best and the brightest can get starting offers with a salary two or
three times as high as starting teacher salaries, that is going to take a toll
in the grand scheme of things. You'll still have a few very bright chaps (such
as my highschool friends) who swallow the bullet and go into education anyway,
but you cannot expect that to be typical.

^ We still talk a few times a year, and they are all closer with each other
than any of them are with me. Incidentally, nobody I know from my (rather
over-priced) private university has gone into education...

 _End previous comment._

The point that you should get here is that total compensation does not pay
student loans. _Salary_ is the relevant number when you are trying to convince
students straight out of school with student loans to come work for you.
Starting teacher salary is undeniably _remarkably_ low.

Or to answer your question directly and succinctly: My comment _is not
evidence_ of low total compensation, nor was it meant to be taken as such.

------
Kudzu_Bob
Could the secret to Finland's excellent schools be...Finland's excellent
students?

~~~
pavlov
Having spent the better part of my life in various Finnish schools, I would
say "no". It's nothing like in many Asian countries where students are either
strongly motivated or strongly pushed by their parents to do well in school.

But perhaps it's this relative lack of individual ambition that allows the
system as a whole to perform well? I.e. the Finnish school system delivers a
high mean with fewer of the excellent outliers. (Personally I think that's a
reasonable goal for an educational system because measuring students doesn't
work all that well, so it would be dangerous to optimize for exceptional
performance on a broken metric.)

~~~
Kudzu_Bob
I'm confused. If you're saying that Finns do well in school even though nobody
forces them to, then they would seem to fit the definition of excellent
students to a tee.

~~~
Jhsto
It's worth noting that the students in the article have already expressed some
level of interest towards school. Unless they wouldn't be in 'lukio'.

The other part consists of students who are normally thought to be worse in
school. In contrary to their lukio peers, they do not have matriculation
examination and therefore do not contribute to the statistics shown on the
article.

------
amerika_blog
What works for a tiny Scandinavian country that's ethnically homogenous, has a
strong culture and is geographically isolated, might just work for ANYONE.

Or, not.

