
Ask HN: What Is the Absolute Cheapest Car to Own and Drive? - peter_d_sherman
Let&#x27;s suppose I wanted to buy a car.  But I&#x27;m brand agnostic and mileage agnostic.  That is, I&#x27;m willing to buy any car regardless of its make and model or how old it is.  Now, I&#x27;d like to buy a car which is going to cost me the <i>absolute least money</i> of any car new or used, that I can buy, over its lifetime, including repairs.  How would I determine which car that would be?  Now, in thinking about this, I see quite a lot of problems, which include, but are not limited to:
-Fluctuations in price of the used car market
-How to calculate the cost of future repairs
-What the cost of gas is and that related to how many miles will it be used in an average week
-Tax deductions, if any
-What the future cost of gas is projected to be
-How much insurance would cost (sub-problem, what would the cost of the cheapest insurance be?)
And of course, how to monitor <i>all</i> of the cars from <i>all</i> of the vendors&#x2F;markets for a given area.
Now, I don&#x27;t have an answer.  It seems like a problem involving multiple domains, requiring huge amounts of statistical data, recurrence relations, data from multiple sources, etc.
But... in thinking about it, I think this would shine as an interview question for my future company (assuming future applicants don&#x27;t read Hacker News). But, what does the HN community think?  What additional things need to be accounted for if I wanted to find and buy <i>the absolute cheapest car</i>?
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summadat
Honda. New or "CPO" certified pre-owned. Spend the money up front for new or
CPO, save the hassle later of buying used and the previous owner never
changing the oil. All of my (3) Honda's have never required anything more than
gas and maintenance, brake pads, tires, etc.

~~~
ux4
I agree. I was recently in the market for a car and I think the best bang for
your buck would be a certified pre-owned Honda, 3-5 years old, less than 50k
mileage, and last year of its body style. A CPO 2015 Honda Civic with ~35k
miles could be had for $11-14k in California. 31/41MPG, cheap to repair,
extremely reliable.

~~~
samfisher83
I think toyota beats honda in quality. If you go here:

[https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Accord/](https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Accord/)
you can see that when you compare cars with similar sales volume like the
accord and camry at least the last 5 or 6 years toyota has won.

We studied the Toyota quality system in my business classes. They put a lot of
emphasis on quality. They use the teachings of Edward Demings
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming)).

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SQL2219
Domestic, high volume production car with a timing chain, not timing belt.
I've spent thousands of dollars at repair shops on timing belt replacements. A
typical replacement will set you back $800-$1,000.

High volume production helps with finding parts when you need to repair,
finding folks on Craigslist that are parting out cars etc.

In my county I have a huge tax advantage driving older cars (2002, 2009). I
had to pay my annual personal property tax in Dec. and it was $140, I was able
to check online what a friend of mine paid, and his tax was $1,400. He likes
newer cars.

Stay away from digital dash do-dads. When electrical stuff goes bad, can be
expensive to repair and difficult to trouble-shoot on your own.

The other cars to look at are the nerd-mobiles: older mini-vans, Crown
Victoria, larger 4 door domestic cars that have a reputation for being uncool.
You know the stereotype: older person with Crown Vic, one owner...

My opinion on Japanese cars: quality and reliability are probably 5% better,
but sellers always over-reach and ask for a 50-80% higher price. So unless you
find a smoking deal, steer clear.

~~~
punchclockhero
Can you explain the benefits of a timing chain instead of a belt? Stumbled
upon a Suzuki Liana while looking for cheap used cars and there was a large
emphasis on the chain in the ad. Possibly related, a car rental business near
my home has a Liana-only fleet.

~~~
SQL2219
Timing belts have to be changed around 100,000 miles, timing chains will
usually last the lifetime of the car. That is an expensive repair, like
$1,000.

~~~
codebeaker
To add a bit more info, most ICE engines are separated into "interference" and
"non-interference", basically it's the shape of the piston heads and the valve
clearance when the piston is in the top position and the valves are open.

If you have an "interference" engine and your timing belt/chain fails you
smash your engine to pieces, if you have a non interference engine it just
stops because the cylinders lose compression because the valves aren't being
actuated.

Timing belts/chains can also damage ancillaries when they go, and as most
timing belts tend to be external, they can fail and take alternator, water
pump, fan, radiator, etc, with them when they catastrophically fail, a timing
chain tends to be inside the engine block and when they fail one _tends_ to be
more lucky, but they can also puncture the block and cause fatal damage to the
engine.

AFAIK nearly all modern consumer cars are non-interference engines, barring
maybe some higher-end performance engine options in otherwise pedestrian cars.

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roryisok
I'm assuming you're in the USA but geography is relevant to this question. For
example, here in Ireland, older cars can be considerably more expensive to tax
and insure. I'm trying to sell a 15 year old VW Golf at the moment which costs
€700 per year in road tax. The same car with a post 2008 number plate would
cost less than half that

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HermitJohn
It depends on how many miles you want to drive per year. How much time you
have. How mechanically inclined you are. If I had long commute every day, I
would say something like cheapest new honda civic with a 5spd or Nissan
Frontier with 4cyl and 5spd.

But as a retired person that drives couple times a month for groceries,
actually mechanically simplest vehicle you can work on, gas mileage is
immaterial since the basic liability insurance will cost you more in a year
than fuel you put into it. So even something like a F150 with carbureted 300-6
and granny four speed be great. One old enough to be emissions exempt so you
arent chasing around trying to find funny little pollution dodads that no
longer are available anywhere.

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CyberFonic
In my experience middle of the range second-hand cars have either been driven
hard or were unreliable and thus for sale. Of course, it depends greatly how
much driving you are planning on and the sorts of conditions.

I have had the best experiences buying new and keeping the car for 10+ years.
Of course, I do a lot of research to discover the sorts of problems that are
common for the models that I am interested in. I find Japanese mid-sized cars
the best for my purposes, specifically Toyota. Buy the most basic model with
the least amount of fancy electronics. And avoid CVT like the plague.

~~~
ljk
> _And avoid CVT like the plague._

why is that?

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hluska
I have a couple of points:

\- If you want the absolute cheapest car, the optimum strategy would be to
learn to do as many repairs as possible on your own. Then, while selecting a
vehicle, you would want to pick one that you can actually repair yourself.
This introduces the first major snag. If you're looking to buy a car that you
can repair yourself, you likely want to stick to American cars built before
the mid-1980s or early-1990s. So then, let's say that you pick a car from that
era and your country suddenly makes a technology like ABS (anti-lock brakes)
mandatory for all vehicles that are licensed? That could force you to buy
another car, simply to stay on the road. Or, more likely, what if you buy a
vehicle then suddenly have to move to a place with stronger emissions
regulations?

\- With fixing your own car, there is a huge gap between "I know how to do it"
and "I'm confident enough to do it, knowing that my daughter will get in the
car tomorrow." I'm an excellent example of this. When we bought our van, I
resolved myself to do as many repairs as possible. I had great plans of being
able to do all the consumables (oil changes, brakes, etc) by myself. Great
idea, right? Then, my fucking brakes actuallu went. In the end, while I'm sure
that I could have done the fix and it would have worked out, I was simply too
nervous to do it with Lauren being my most regular passenger!

~~~
tudelo
To be fair, fixing your brakes on an old car is an absolute nightmare IME. I
did it on my early 2000's Mustang and even though there are very few steps
every bolt was rusted together and I spent the better part of the day in the
rain. And I only got the front done :). Oil changes are often the same price
or more expensive to do on your own given the cost of oil. I guess if you want
a specific brand of filter/oil it might make sense to do it yourself, but
other than that, it always seemed like a waste of time to me.

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psyc
I've spent a lot of money on bad car decisions. The best TCO I ever had was
for a new Hyundai Accent. Bought it new for $10k in 2004, and spent less than
$2k on repairs over 13 years.

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sunstone
The correct answer to this question depends quite strongly on how much you're
planning to drive.

Assuming you plan to drive a lot the answer is that the lowest Total Cost of
Ownership (TCO) is the Toyota Prius. Yes it costs more upfront but if you own
it for 10 years and you drive 600k miles then it's the cheapest especially if
your driving includes substantial freeway miles.

First it can get close to 70mpg (mine often does) with a mix of careful
city/hwy driving. It's rated at 60mpg highway.

Maintenance on this car is very low. Oil changes are about every 10k miles and
brakes are about every 150k miles (regenerative brakes do not eat much brake
pad). The engine is almost always running at its favorite RPM which reduces
engine wear a lot.

A Tesla 3 might have an even lower TCO but that's not proven yet and it
definitely won't have a 750 mile range with the convenience of filling up at
the nearest pump.

Definitely worth breaking out Excel and running the numbers on.

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foopod
I think this depends heavily on the driver too..

\- Location and conditions in which car is driven. In a city? or bumpy roads?
Near the sea?

\- Driving style. Heavy footed? Drives slowly? Could make them more prone to
certain types of accidents that have different costs associated with them.

\- Mileage. Does this person only drive 10km a week? Or is it a lot further?

\- Weight even. How much of the vehicles capacity or weight load do they use?
How often?

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potta_coffee
I've had two cars that were excellent buys. One was a 2000 Camry. That car
went to 275k miles before I sold it. It cost me very little maintenance - two
timing belts and two sets of tires, plus oil changes etc. Camry has a non-
interference engine so if the timing belt breaks, you won't damage the engine
(Hondas mostly have interference engines and if the timing belt blows, you're
screwed). Now I have a Miata, 1997. This car has a non-interference engine,
decent on gas, resale values are good, and the thing is bulletproof. I've used
and abused this car and it takes it like a champ. The Mazda 323/protege used
the same engine but is FWD, those things are bombproof as well. They don't get
sexed up like Civics so you can find them dirt cheap as well.

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tabeth
Buy a used electric smart car. Approximately $6000 to drive home. Maintenance
will be near zero. Amount per mile will be less than any non-electric car. If
your commute is less than 50 miles daily it's the way to go.

~~~
roryisok
Until you have to replace the battery

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gesman
Cheapest to pay upfront or cheapest to end up after you get rid of it?

Is quality of experience matters?

IMHO, get new car that comes with 10 yr warranty, like Hyundai.

You'll enjoy it right off the bat, feel safe about any future repairs and be
able to resell it at (check the price for 10 yo same model now).

We spend in car hours per day - and quality of experience matters a lot (well,
to me at least).

Hence cheapest junker in town won't cut it for me.

Sorry, not much statistics here :)

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SQL2219
Nissan Leafs to be had for $6,500

[https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=niss...](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=nissan+leaf&_sop=2)

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tonyedgecombe
I always go for the basic model in the range, in particular I try and avoid
too many electrical gadgets. I even skipped air conditioning in my last car
although I think that would be harder to do now.

------
book_mentioned
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16160947#16162079](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16160947#16162079)

> _CA was basically paying you $1000 to take the car_

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pkamb
A car with a broken odometer that's >25 years old to qualify for your state's
Collector Vehicle Registration + vintage car insurance at around $200/year.

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shyn3
TSLA. Lower insurance. No maintenance. Save time filling gas. No oil changes.
Nothing beats it.

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potta_coffee
Miata Is Always The Answer

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SirLJ
from personal experience: the "company car" is the cheapest to own and run...

