
Starting a Hardware Company with $60K - gwintrob
https://cobattery.com/blog/how-to-start-a-hardware-company
======
ShirsenduK
The Da Vinci is _not_ a Makerbot knockoff. Its a printer based on open source
designs of Reprap.

Makerbot should never get credit for it after they chose to leave the
community. Markerbot is actually a Reprap ripoff!

That said, I will be waiting for the next set of articles. This is good! :)

~~~
vpontis
Ha you are clearly more knowledgeable about 3D printers than I am :).

Reprap for anyone reading this is totally awesome. I didn't include it in my
post but Reprap is an open source 3D-printer that can make itself...

It's basically the hardware version of the singularity:
[http://reprap.org/](http://reprap.org/)

~~~
marcosdumay
Well, it can kinda "make itself".

Electronics and strong materials (steel mostly) are not included, and it takes
quite a bit of assembly.

But yes, it awesome.

~~~
marianov
Lathes had been making themselves for ages before 3D printers.

~~~
vpontis
That's a good point! I guess the iteration cycle has gotten an order of
magnitude quicker and cheaper with 3D printers.

------
my_username_is_
The problem with relying on "security through obscurity" for developing your
initial CAD models is that you won't be able to patent these designs. You're
making a public disclosure about your concept before you file, so if you
intend to protect your hardware concepts through patent protection you'd be
better off using something like Autodesk Inventor Fusion 360 (which is free
for hobbyists, students, and even startups making less than $100k/year, if I
remember correctly). I think OnShape made a big mistake by removing the
ability to keep any of your designs private without paying.

That being said, if you're working in the open source hardware space or just
don't plan on patenting your work, OnShape could be a good option.

~~~
tzs
Disclosing before filing would indeed, I believe, preclude obtaining a patent
in most of the world. In the US, though, there is a one year grace period
after the inventor publicly discloses the invention during which that
disclosure does not automatically make the invention ineligible for a patent.

Of course it would still be better to keep it private until you file, so as to
not lose the possibility of patents outside the US, and so as to not subject
yourself to the risk that it might take more than a year to get to the point
that you are ready to file.

------
jwr
As a hardware developer, I'm surprised you actually bought a 3d printer. I
found that Shapeways and Materialise work really well, and the quality of
their SLS prints is basically impossible to match using a desktop FDM printer.
Plus, there is no fuss: upload a model, click "order" and get your print in a
couple of days.

I'm really interested in the next chapters, especially about dealing with
manufacturers, working on injection molding design, choosing your materials,
etc.

Also, thanks for writing this! There is too little information on building
hardware out there. Nothing like the software world, and each beginning
hardware developer has to start on his/her own.

~~~
vpontis
Hey jwr!

We found that buying a 3D printer was _essential_. They only cost a few
hundred dollars and instead of getting a piece for $50 in a couple days, we
can print something for a couple dollars in a few hours.

For testing the final design, we still use 3D print services to get really
nice prints. But for the initial iteration it's nice to do it as quickly and
as cheaply as possible.

Sidenote: We also rigged up a system so that we can run the 3D printer over
night and print multiple parts. We will probably write a post on that.

~~~
jwr
Interesting — I found that given the amount of stuff that I actually needed
printed, I am still below the cost of a decent-quality 3D printer. Also, I
would not be able to print what I needed with a desktop FDM anyway, and I
figured I will save time by not having to fiddle with 3D printers myself
(usually the cheaper the printer, the more fiddling is required).

So, that's interesting that you found otherwise! Please definitely write more
about that.

~~~
joshvm
Another perspective here. At work we use a mixture of desktop (Form 1) and SLA
printing (outsourcced). They have pros and cons. The resin printer is probably
better resolution, but the SLA printers can do things like support-free
printing which is really really useful for clean designs.

One problem with using printing companies is that they charge by volume,
whereas most makers are concerned with the amount of filament they use up.
This is cool if you can pack your volume with lots of designs, but it means
that even a slight height increment on a big model adds a lot of the price.
Then you have order minimums: 3DPrintUK, for instance, has a starting order of
£40 which adds up fast.

Time isn't immediately obvious. We can rush an order online to around 3-4 days
regardless of size. For small parts it's a no-brainer doing it in the lab, but
for big prints there are print reliability issues, it still takes ages at high
resolution and requires a ton of cleanup. And yes, fiddling is a pain, I don't
mind doing it, but it can take hours to get repeatable prints.

~~~
joshvm
Edit: meant to say we outsource SLS (selective laser sintering) rather than
SLA (stereolithography - i.e. the Form) :)

------
gadgetoid
I was surprised your step 1 wasn't "build a working (but ugly) prototype out
of pre-existing breakout boards and components."

I might have a pencil sketch or two, but I wouldn't be doing anything in CAD
until I knew my idea was feasible and had some grasp of exactly how it might
fit into a finished design.

What stages did you go through for the conceptualisation and prototyping of
the idea? As someone in the hardware business, I know the circuitry involved
is common and simple enough that you probably had little difficulty. But I'd
still love to hear how you discovered what you needed where to source it.

Good effort anyway, we need more guides like this on the web!

~~~
vpontis
Yea, that's actually a great point!

I glossed over that pre-CAD prototyping in the post since we built those first
"duct-tape prototypes" a long, long time ago. So we don't have pictures
readily accessible and it was harder to remember the exact process.

To start with, I think we modified another battery case and basically stuck
batteries on the back to try out swapping.

I'll think about how to incorporate that step into the post and see if I can
dig up some old photos.

~~~
gadgetoid
Would love to see that, thank you.

------
rebootthesystem
You need to put this through UL, FCC, CE and TUV testing before selling it.
Depending on where you intend to sell it you might need to pay for acceptance
of the above certificates. For example, Brazil has it's own certifications but
they will accept CE for a fee, etc.

Have you gone through compliance testing?

~~~
slededit
You don't need to do FCC testing if you don't have an oscillator.

~~~
rebootthesystem
This device should have a switching regulator in order to manage the variable
voltage coming out of the battery to then power the phone, which means FCC
testing is required.

Generally speaking testing labs will run a series of common tests that satisfy
the various regulatory agencies. In other words, you don't have to run four
separate sets of tests to obtain UL, FCC, CE and TUV. I've done this dozens of
times over the years.

~~~
tzs
It should be noted that if they don't themselves design any of the modules
that would require certification, but instead just use already certified third
party modules, that greatly reduces the amount of testing their product needs.

I've read that can get the cost of FCC certification down $1-2k and the
certification time us under 5 days.

If you design your own module, then it is $7-20k, and will take 4-6 weeks.
(Once you've certified that, though, then if you reuse that same module in
other products it is like using a third party certified module, so $1-2k for
each subsequent product).

------
SwellJoe
Thanks for writing this up, and I look forward to more!

My first company did hardware, and it was kind of an awful experience, and I
swore to never do another hardware company. I got burned out from sourcing
things, dealing with revisions, and working with manufacturers through the
language barrier. But, things look so much nicer ~12 years later, and there
are several products I wish existed that I think would have a solid niche
market. But, it's still pretty intimidating.

Also, I love the connector. The case is a bit weird, though, with seemingly
exposed battery? But, I'm not the target market, anyway (I have an Android
device).

~~~
vpontis
Thanks!

Yea, as I said in the post, I think it's drastically easier to start a
hardware company now vs 10 years ago. And it's still pretty hard, ha! So I can
just imagine what you went through.

Yep, the battery is "exposed" in that we don't have a cover over the battery.
But each battery does have protection.

And you aren't the target market, yet! Making cases for just iPhone made
things easier, but we are hoping to expand to the most popular Android phones.

~~~
frakkingcylons
You really need to add an email signup for people interested in CoBattery for
Android. At least by the time you write the next part of your blog post.

~~~
vpontis
That's a great idea!

------
syntaxing
Hmm, the post shows that the case was designed in OnShape but the screenshot
shows that's its an imported STEP file from Solidworks(?). Admittedly though,
I haven't used OnShape since they removed the private project options so I
might be wrong.

Understandably, OnShape and Fusion360 (the HSMWorks/CAM integration in it is
awesome.) is great for startups and hobbyist. But if you're trying to design
some large assemblies or things with complex organic shapes, Solidworks is
significantly superior in every way (I'm extremely bias since Solidworks is my
favorite CAD software). I know the price is a lot for a startup but I highly
recommend any company trying to get into the hardware side of things, to stick
with the "foundational" CAD software because in the current CAD software
landscape, the investment into these software would pay off in less than a
year.

~~~
vpontis
Wow, you paid attention to the details! Yea, the screenshot was just for the
purpose of the post.

We did some of the original design in OnShape and some of it in SolidWorks. I
didn't want to recommend SolidWorks for cheap work because at the time we only
got it free because we were students.

We've found that it isn't that hard to start off a design in OnShape and then
move it into SolidWorks as things get more complicated. It isn't ideal, but
it's definitely cheaper.

~~~
tonylemesmer
Financially cheaper yes. I've tried Onshape for 6 months and I didn't find it
as immediate or as fast as Solidworks. Particularly when modelling multi-
component assemblies.

Onshape monthly price for a pro licence is about 1/3 the price of Solidworks
monthly (on finance), for me Solidworks is a clear winner here even though it
costs more.

But, Onshape is a revolution in the free CAD space. Perfect for simple
products like this ;)

Edit: added last sentence

------
vpontis
Hey everyone, I wrote this post :). I'm happy to see that it's getting some
traffic here.

Let me know if y'all have any questions. I would love to see this post help
other people start hacking on hardware, so I'll answer anything I can.

------
JoblessWonder
Is that a certified lightning connector? I'd be curious about that process or,
if it isn't, the decision to forgo it and whether or not you did any user
testing around it.

~~~
vpontis
It's not!

We have some info on the connector here:
[https://cobattery.com/connector](https://cobattery.com/connector)

Apple doesn't actually let you buy a chip that will allow for the right angle
connector that we have. So we decided to design our own. It was a pretty time
intensive process and we had to search for a while for a good factory. But we
are happy with the way it turned out.

------
nik736
Well the idea is obviously OK but it looks really bad in my opinion. Who buys
an iPhone and uses this gigantic, bad looking case for day-to-day usage?

How many of those have you sold already?

~~~
vpontis
Ha, well I'll take the first part as a compliment!

We are actually proud that our case is slimmer than most other battery cases
on the market. We didn't want our case to be bulky so we designed our own
custom lightning connector that snugly fits the phone:
[https://cobattery.com/connector](https://cobattery.com/connector)

What don't you like about the case's look?

~~~
sillysaurus3
Everything. The case looks like a giraffe's tongue, and giraffes suck.

Just kidding. The case looks fine. I'd briefly wonder whether dropping it on
the metal connector at the bottom would damage it, and I'd prefer the battery
color match the case, but those are just nitpicks.

~~~
vpontis
What!? Giraffes are awesome...

We have found the metal connector to be pretty resistant. But we have one year
full warranty, so if anything breaks for any reason we will send you a
replacement immediately. :)

~~~
htima
Can you write more about how you provide a warranty? Is it simply guessing x%
of the products will fail within the warranty period and set aside some money
to cover those failures. Or is it more complicated?

~~~
vpontis
Hmmm, it's actually much more simple than that. We want to provide a good
product that makes people's lives better. The warranty is a forcing function.

In my opinion, if we can't make money while ensuring people's CoBattery cases
works, we shouldn't be in business.

~~~
sillysaurus3
Hey, I just wanted to say it's cool to see ideology in business. It's
relatively rare. Best of luck to you!

------
yial
Cheers and best luck to you!

Once I upgrade to the 7, I will be buying one of your cases. You've solved all
the issues I hated about previous battery cases, which actually had me go back
just a "normal" slim leather case.

I.e. no lip, and that I don't have to tether my phone back to the wall when
I'm charging it.

Additionally, I believe this will solve the issues I've had with lighting
connector wear.

I'm very excited to read about your alibaba connections and sourcing however.

~~~
vpontis
Thanks for the kind words yial!

We've found that a big reason people upgrade is due to a failing battery. So
if that's why you are upgrading, I would just save $$ and get CoBattery now
;).

------
zitterbewegung
Your product looks interesting. I like that you can swap out batteries without
removing the case. Also that you aren't blocking the headphone port. (You
should list that as a feature ). One thing that I feel that is missing from
your site is how many maH the battery is. I wouldn't know this is a good deal
unless you listed this.

~~~
vpontis
Yep, that's something that accidentally got removed on the most recent re-
design...

The batteries are each 3,000 mAh.

------
jpm_sd
Good effort, but the "battery" part seems like it is still in need of some
attention. Developing a good relationship with a reliable cell manufacturer,
and staying on top of quality control issues, is going to consume your life.

Also, get UL certified, or you're wasting your time.

~~~
vpontis
Thanks jpm_sd!

So for the battery, we are actually using a modified version of an older
Samsung battery (not the Note 7 haha).

That's something that we didn't want to reinvent. So we are working with a
factory who has made these batteries in the past.

I didn't include more about the battery in this post. Is that something you'd
enjoy reading more about?

~~~
annerajb
I would!

~~~
vpontis
Sweet! I have some blog posts planned about how we are designing a new charger
and our 3D print iteration set up. So I'll think if we have anything else on
the battery.

I also wrote up a basic, but goofy, post on "What is a battery":
[https://cobattery.com/blog/what-is-a-
battery](https://cobattery.com/blog/what-is-a-battery)

If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me at
victor@cobattery.com

------
somesaba
Thanks for writing this, the post is super helpful! I didn't see anything
about the circuit design/iteration process. Would be great to hear what
software was used to design the circuit (if any) and how that eventually
translates to mass production.

~~~
vpontis
The circuit is actually really simple in our case. It is just a voltage
converter and then an adapter for the lightning connector.

Getting the custom lightning connector and chip was more of an ordeal though!
I'll see what I can dredge up on that process.

------
nojvek
This is great. It's been a long term goal if mine to do a successful kick-
starter robot. This give me confidence that a hardware noob has some chance of
making this work.

~~~
vpontis
Awesome! If you end up making something, send it over :). I'd love to check it
out.

------
joshvm
No love for FreeCad? It's certainly comparable to other desktop software for
simple designs. The constraint solver is actually better than several I've
used.

~~~
vpontis
I haven't tried it, but it definitely looks cool!

~~~
cr0sh
I played with an older version of it a few years back - it has a bit of a
learning curve, but well worth the effort.

If you are into coding - there is an interesting tool out there for creating
3D CAD files using a software-based paradigm (that is, you "code" your
object):

[http://www.openscad.org/](http://www.openscad.org/)

If you prefer something browser based:

[https://openjscad.org/](https://openjscad.org/)

Also:

[http://www.implicitcad.org/](http://www.implicitcad.org/)

Finally - if you want something closer to freecad (mouse/gui) but browser
based:

[http://shapesmith.net/](http://shapesmith.net/)

There are a few other solutions out there as well that are open source (and
note - not all of the above can really be considered "CAD" in the strictest
sense of the work - freecad is really the only one, honestly) - but these are
the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

------
jamesred
Is the battery held in by friction and the connector? If so does it ever fall
out?

How do you deal with the lightning port being used the headphone jack?

~~~
vpontis
> Is the battery held in by friction and the connector? If so does it ever
> fall out?

Yea, it's just friction and the pogo pins at the bottom! It took us a long
time to get that fit quite right but now it never falls out. I'll give you a
refund and let you keep CoBattery if you buy it and can shake out the battery
:)

> How do you deal with the lightning port being used the headphone jack?

I actually have the iPhone 7 and I've totally switched to Bluetooth earbuds.
And you can actually pull out the connector if you do want to plug in, but
it's definitely a better experience to just move to Bluetooth.

We are working on a version of CoBattery that will have an old-style audio
jack. But it's tough to source the audio-lightning components!

------
gonzo
We actually started smallworks.com (LEGO compatible iPhone cases) for less,
but went through a similar process.

~~~
louprado
We would all appreciate if you had anything to share about the following:

> 3\. Find manufacturers using Alibaba (coming soon)

> 4\. Picking the right partner factory (coming soon)

> 5\. Scale up production at a Chinese factory (coming soon)

How much time did you spend in China to get through steps 4 and 5 ? Thanks in
advance.

------
TamDenholm
I'd love to hear about how you developed the connector.

~~~
vpontis
Ooo, yea the connector, that was tough! We have a proprietary design there so
we can't share _everything_ but I will include some info on the connector in
the next posts of this blog series :).

