
Microsoft starts shipping Windows 10 mixed reality developer kits this month - T-A
https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/01/microsoft-starts-shipping-windows-10-mixed-reality-developer-kits-this-month/
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gallerdude
In a mind-blowing revelation, I learned my university had a Hololens to try.
Before trying it, I'd always believed that AR would be the future. After
trying it, I believe that AR will be the _future_ \- the tech isn't quite
there yet.

The finger clicks work like 60% of the time, and the windows seem to vary in
opaqueness which really threw me off. (And yes, the FOV is pretty terrible
right now). But for minutes at a time, I'd be fully immersed.

Mixed reality will be one of the biggest transformations, I think. The digital
world used to be restrained to our desks. Right now, we carry it around with
us in our pockets (and maybe even on our wrists). But with augmented reality,
it's going to be joined with our real world - the two are finally going to
truly merge. It's impossible to know what will develop from this.

We live in interesting times.

~~~
roywiggins
Unlike VR, AR is going to be a lot easier for people to jump into. VR is
disorienting and isolating and I can't imagine, like, my mom spending hours
inside it.

But AR is a lot more straightforward. Put the headset on and hey, there's new
things floating around in your vision. Simple as that. You're not locked away
into another world. VR could be a great gaming and movie platform, but for
day-to-day life AR seems so much more useful.

~~~
TwoBit
What exactly are people going to do in AR that's so compelling?

~~~
kriro
It's amazing for sales of heavy/bulky products. We're selling rather simple
apps that just visualize a product on a nicely produced marker to
manufacturers of all sorts. Workflow for their sales teams is pretty
much...take marker to customer or event, use iPad or another tablet to show
it. Sometimes we add simple interactions like tapping on things to change
colors and the like. We keep raising the price and still haven't reached the
point where sales get hard.

This is pretty much the simplest possible AR (one object via marker and
handheld device). Decent AR glasses are quite good in warehouses
etc...basically think heads up display. Mixed reality seems to be focused on
meetings/conversations in all the samples but I'm sure there's other
interesting applications. We've experimented with tracking buildings and so on
and I can see adding stats and info to real world objects.

The tech isn't quite there yet (FOV), interaction will remain a big barrier
for quite some time (imo). There will also be some interesting ethical
questions that need to be asked once we really "get there" and the objects get
so real that they are hard/impossible to distinguish. Think about facial
recognition+overlays of different faces etc.

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ChicagoBoy11
We seem to have converged on a consensus that people will more quickly
gravitate towards AR than VR. I don't understand how that came to pass. All of
the AR experiences that I have seen -- including the examples in the article
-- are potentially interesting, but far less compelling than what we have seen
so far in VR.

Yes, the promise of true AR is great. But so far I have seen no example of an
AR application that does a wonderful job semantically understanding the world
around you and correspondingly attaching things into your view. Every
experience I've seen for the Hololens so far does a great job with tracking,
but there is no true interaction with the physical world -- the applications
are simply aware of some general constraints on what the surfaces of the room
look like.

In VR, on the other hand, a demo like Zuckerberg's I think convincingly showed
just how powerful a VR experience can be and how seamlessly elements from the
real world can be integrated into it.

I honestly am curious as to why people are so readily seeing much greater
potential in AR. Perhaps in the VERY long term, but for a good long while I
can only see VR applications dominating the market.

~~~
fsloth
"All of the AR experiences that I have seen ...are ... far less compelling
than what we have seen so far in VR."

The point of AR is not to offer compelling experiences, it's point is to
expedite real world industrial and service processes and planning.

Don't think of how cool it's supposed to look. Think how much it saves when
the maintenance crew can navigate a new building as easily as in a video game.
The selling point is not to have some cool experiences. The selling point is
to have for the repair crew a navigation track to the maintenance item, and a
red arrow pointing to it.

~~~
ChicagoBoy11
I completely agree with you -- I just haven't actually seen any AR yet come
close to doing (for real) what you describe

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Eridrus
The pricing listed on the MSFT website is interesting "the upcoming Windows
Mixed Reality headsets starting at $299" \-
[https://developer.microsoft.com/en-
us/windows/projects/campa...](https://developer.microsoft.com/en-
us/windows/projects/campaigns/windows-mixed-reality)

Especially compared to the Oculus Rift which still starts at $499.

~~~
AnotherHustler
This is very interesting, the current price of VR hardware is too high for the
average consumer (based on research from EEDAR). $299 is a move further
towards mass adoption for PC based VR - excellent!

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roywiggins
It's not clear from the article, but this headset does not do AR like the
HoloLens does, it's a VR headset with fancy inside-out markerless tracking.

I had a chance to try a HoloLens, and the AR was impressive but the head
tracking was even more so. Just very, very solid.

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helb
Wow, Microsoft Bob [1] in augmented reality. :)
[http://imgur.com/a/eWpG0](http://imgur.com/a/eWpG0)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob)

~~~
tribby
ha. nice catch. that's rover the dog alright!

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staticelf
Recently tried a HoloLens, after reading some articles and seen the marketing
videos I thought it was going to be as immersive as Vive or Rift.

But that tiny window ruined it completely for me. It just isn't immersive at
all. Sure it is functional and cool, but I don't honestly think that it's
going to be all that useful until the field of view is much larger. Another
thing that annoyed me was that I couldn't get close to the holograms. You had
to stand at least 1-2 meters away. Maybe it was incorrect settings or
something, but kind of disappointing when MS had led me to believe it would be
as immersive as VR.

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throw20161123
Any suggestions on how to best get started in AR?

What I have is an XPS 15 with a GTX 1050 with 4GB ram.

~~~
josephpmay
Learn Unity (if you don't know it already).

Don't spend too much time on Windows holographic, as it won't become the
defacto standard in AR

Create some pass-through mobile games/experiences with Vuforia or Kudan. Hand-
held AR isn't that compelling IMO, but many of the lessons you learn from it
will be applicable for headset AR

~~~
kriro
Agree (handheld AR with Unity, won't need killer hardware either just you cell
phone+your PC is fine). But be aware that if you ever want to ship something
Vuforia is kind of costly. For quick prototyping Unity+Vuforia is pretty
great. ARToolkit is decent but the tracking isn't as good (imo) and there's
more hands on with extracting features from the markers yourself etc. Eagerly
awaiting v6 which has been "coming soon" for quite some time now. You can also
search for OpenCV tutorials, iirc there's a Unity plugin.

If anyone has recommendations for a more open stack I'm listening (own a Unity
license but think it's meh-ish for AR). Most certainly would like to migrate
from Vuforia since I don't want to bet on something that could just go Mataio
and be gone (+licensing cost is pretty prohibitive but acceptable for my use
case).

~~~
iamcreasy
In the video of Vuforia, they show a headset, but I don't see anything about
it on their website. Could you share more details?

Microsoft Hololens is 3,000usd. Is there any cheaper AR headset?

~~~
josephpmay
The Vuforia video shows a concept headset from ODG and BMW.

Right now there aren't any cheaper AR headsets (worth buying), but there will
be later this year. (and now a plug for my own startup:
[https://www.miralabs.io/](https://www.miralabs.io/))

~~~
iamcreasy
Can you share more details about mira AR headset? The website doesn't say
much.

~~~
josephpmay
There's a bit more information on our Facebook page
([https://www.facebook.com/MiraLabs.io/](https://www.facebook.com/MiraLabs.io/)),
but we're purposefully not sharing much at this time. What I can tell you is
it's a consumer-targeted mass market augmented reality headset for under $100.
Apps for the platform are built using Unity.

~~~
iamcreasy
That's nice. And about roughly when the developers will get one?

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ourmandave
_It’s also going to be stepping up its efforts with mixed reality on Windows
10 on PCs, which is a core feature of the forthcoming Creators Update for
Microsoft’s desktop OS._

So another update that will fail to install on my force-upgraded laptop from
2009, but will still try every day, _no matter what_ , whenever it feels like
it?

Anybody in the market for a laptop shaped brick for cheap?

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hackuser
Is there a difference between "mixed reality" and "augmented reality"?

~~~
T-A
The terminology is a mess (cue laughter from the audience as Abrash tries to
float "Augmented Virtual Reality" [1]). I would say:

\- Augmented Reality: you have a see-through display which lets you see the
real world with virtual objects added to it.

\- Mixed Reality: you have an opaque display which shows a model of the real
world, updated in real time using cameras, with virtual objects added to it.

[1] [https://www.wareable.com/vr/michael-abrash-what-vr-will-
look...](https://www.wareable.com/vr/michael-abrash-what-vr-will-look-like-
in-2021)

------
jordache
are there examples of successful industrial application of AR? Out in the
field, not just inside a lab?

~~~
test9753
Saw this video on youtube:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0t1wAkjFBo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0t1wAkjFBo)

    
    
      <quote>

NASA's Use of HoloLens Puts St. Louis Scientist on Mars with Curiosity Rover

If anyone sees Raymond E. Arvidson, PhD, walking the halls of Washington
University wearing Microsoft HoloLens, then he's not entirely walking on
Earth. HoloLens combined with OnSight, a software tool developed by NASA's Jet
Propulsion Laboratory in collaboration with Microsoft, allows Arvidson to be
absorbed in the Martian landscape conducting 'field' research. Arvidson may
actually be walking on university flooring, but the software is allowing him
to virtually walk on Mars with NASA's Mars rover Curiosity. In his role as
Curiosity Surface Properties Scientist, Arvidson is planning Curiosity's next
move.

    
    
      </quote>

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marsrover
Does anyone else get a Fahrenheit 451 vibe from mixed reality? No doubt it is
completely awesome and I'm very excited. I can't help but feel like we'll all
end up like Millie Montag.

~~~
marsrover
Wow, I didn't expect that comment to go over so terribly.

