
Video game execution watched by 325K players - cpeterso
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/08/video-game-execution-guild-wars-2-arena-net
======
minimaxir
> _This week, a player named DarkSide was caught using a cheat program to
> teleport into buildings, kill powerful characters and make off with all the
> loot._

To those familiar with Guild Wars 2, that's not remotely how Guild Wars 2
works. The hacks occurred in the World vs. World area, which is one of the
designated PvP areas of the games. The hacks only bypassed player stronghold
defenses via teleport, he didn't "make off with all the loot."

More info: [https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wuv/Blacktide-
Thi...](https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wuv/Blacktide-Thief-Hacker-
Strikes-again-part-10/)

Note that "public executions" were also a tradition in Guild Wars 1, where the
game's "god of death" killed those caught selling gold:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B6bZSpQHxU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B6bZSpQHxU)

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sidcool
I don't see anything earth shattering here. Am I missing something? I thought
that always happened in Guild Wars 2. And the title makes it sound like 325k
people assembled online to witness the event.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
Wholly uninteresting. And it's not really unique to GW2, of course. Banning
after players are caught cheating happens every day in online games.

I guess the difference is normally players are simply banned and maybe a forum
post lets everyone know if the player was famous, instead of an admin logging
in, removing gear, suiciding and then deleting the character and then banning
the account which is 100% for dramatic effect. I guess this was congenial for
the 'journalist' who likes to use dramatic effect in his titles himself.

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comrh
> There are of course moral questions surrounding the use of humiliation and
> “execution” as a form of public punishment within virtual environments.

Is there?

~~~
atmosx
Of course. As time goes by and online games become omni-present, along with
the profits, social responsibility increases too.

I would expect the developer to patch the server/software instead of killing
the character _for all to see_. If the player is a 14 year old Italian, living
in Napoli for instance (where the mob is stronger then the state) he just
learned about a _code of conduct_ that might stuck there throughout his
lifespan leading to some seriously fucked up situations (because real world
crime repercussions are different). Some people are seriously _hooked up_ in
online gaming. Some of them are kids for Christ's sake.

What this company did here is plainly ridiculous. You don't respond to bullies
with bullying if you don't want to promote violence. If you respond violently
(by humiliating your opponent) you are effectively promoting violence and
unethical behaviour, although indirectly.

Closing the account and making a statement would be more than enough. What I
see here, is just an 'ego' hurt... But the developer's and/or security-
whatever-officer's ego should be feeling more for the 'problem' than the
'messenger'...

~~~
xyzzy123
Well... it's a tricky one. It's a game, right? I credit gamers on the whole
with the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality.

Since the whole narrative of the game is combat in the first place, with
thousands of virtual deaths per hour, you could say it's appropriate in
context. It's also arguably more fun - and that's why people play.

~~~
atmosx
Maybe this is where I disagree and didn't make it clear. I have no problem
with banning an account. No one would even notice that _this_ account was
banned probably.

What I have problem with is the stance of the admin/dev/supervisor/whatever
towards a user who fund and exploited a bug.

Humiliating publicly a game character was never in the context of the game.
The character didn't lose a battle, the admin took over the account by force
and eliminated the character, then he published the video for other users to
see. Imagine if the death sentence in the US was not an electric chair but a
Colosseum-like show with lions eating men alive, broadcasted on national TV.
They were going to die anyway, so why not make up a show, use the money for
... I don't know, public education/research? :-) - would that make the action
appropriate/ethical/understandable?

This is not _another virtual death_ otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it,
would we?

~~~
hueving
>Imagine if the death sentence in the US was not an electric chair but a
Colosseum-like show with lions eating men alive, broadcasted on national TV.

Except this isn't real death. It's a game! The fact that you're having so much
difficulty distinguishing between the two is a little worrisome.

~~~
atmosx
I'm ready to be held accountable for what I write and say. But under no
circumstances am I to held accountable for your poor understanding...

------
Steko
Millions are familiar with the less dramatic but more entertaining Lyte Smites
from LoL where kids questioning their bans on the forums and professing
innocence are confronted with their in game chatlogs by Riot's lead social
designer Lyte (Jeff Lin).

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
That sounds entertaining. Can you link to some examples?

~~~
Steko
[http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=...](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4713390)

[http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=...](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4911009&page=2)

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matxip
There are a lot of people in this thread who are taking about the morality of
killing a character while not understanding how death is framed in the game.
Things that happen when you die:

You need to WP (way point). It costs a negligible amount for most player and
is instantaneous (sans load times). In towns, like in this case, it's free.
They cover all maps, and are normal two minutes or so walk apart from each
other. In the videos, the character would literally have been alive and where
he was in less than a second at no cost.

If you're in combat when you die, you're armor will slowly break (after
numerous deaths one piece eventually will). This is free to fix and not a
difficult NPC to find. Aside, falling to your death when not in combat will
not cause this effect.

Another point to bring up is that players are falling to their death nonstop
everywhere. The game has hidden areas, "jumping puzzles" and generally
encourages players to make risky jumps just for the fun of it. Seeing a player
fall and die, even in the middle of a town, would go fully unnoticed unless
maybe by a few who might resurrect the player on a whim.

Finally, I didn't see anything of real in game value on that account and the
player only had one other low level character. I'm guessing they purchased it
during the resent 75% off sale with the sole intent of hacking. Further, it
was probably an alt account that the person was expecting to get banned
eventually.

In other words, the videos doesn't really show in game value being destroyed
or lasting damage being done as punitive cruelty. Rather, it's a just a funny
twist on the normally mundane task of banning. This scares no reasonable
player and, rather, actually is reassuring to know they're dealing with
hackers.

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jmount
[http://www.juliandibbell.com/texts/bungle_vv.html](http://www.juliandibbell.com/texts/bungle_vv.html)

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sergiotapia
> _There are of course moral questions surrounding the use of humiliation and
> “execution” as a form of public punishment within virtual environments.
> Despite this – or perhaps because of it – the video of DarkSide’s demise has
> already been viewed by over 300,000 people, hungry for a peculiar display of
> gaming justice._

Really? I think if I were to ask anybody I know this question they would
straight up laugh in my face.

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perfTerm
I wouldn't be surprised if this would make players want to cheat more. "Hey
hey! Look at my character! 300,000 people watched him!".

I don't really think making the ethics of an in game execution a big deal is
really the right tact though. Aren't there better things to do?

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djhworld
If a normal player jumped off that bridge, would they also die too?

~~~
icebraining
I can't tell you about that particular bridge, but you can die from falling¹.
That said, I don't think it would have had any penalty, the character would
just be reborn somewhere else.

¹
[https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Fall_Damage.jpg](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Fall_Damage.jpg)

