

Recruiters can't tell great programmers and flakes apart [comic] - kranner
http://blog.codeboff.in/2010/07/22/programmers-and-recruiters-are-from-different-planets-3/

======
gte910h
Considering the way recruiters are paid, I can understand that no matter how
good this guy is, he is worthless to the recruiter to recommend him

Recruiters are paid based on salary of the guy _and the fact he stays there
for a certain period of time_.

~~~
leelin
Does anyone have concrete data points on how and what recruiters are paid?

The data point I heard for the finance industry was 25% of base + guaranteed
bonus (but not signing bonus or discretionary bonus). I have no idea how the
rules change if the employee flakes and quits within X months.

~~~
kranner
I know at least one place that doesn't pay anything until an employee has
stayed 3 months.

------
wheaties
The problem is most recruiters have absolutely no idea how to judge a
candidate so they come up with their own heuristics. It's much the same way
that an accountant might measure lines of code for productivity. They can only
go with what makes sense to them.

------
rpledge
In my experience recuiters are used to staff long term positions. If a hiring
company is looking to hire someone for a position that will take many months
to learn an existing code base it is reasonable to expect that person stay
with the company for some multiple of that amount of time.

That said, recruiters should ask potential candidates about their work
preference. If the person is open to a long term placement they shouldn't
dismiss them based on previous short term engagements. But don't get upset if
"Large Corporation A" isn't interested in you because you like to do 3 month
freelance projects.

------
acgourley
Assuming they could stomach doing it, how much money cold a technical person
with good interviewing skills make as a head hunter? Perhaps after a year when
they had time to build up a rep as being a good filter?

~~~
byrneseyeview
You would do better as an in-house recruiter at a technical company. That way,
you're in more direct contact with hiring managers.

Build your rep there, and go out on your own.

My first real job was working for a recruiter who used to be a programmer. He
didn't really need to use his programming knowledge, though, because
recruiting means sending candidates who won't make the hiring manager look
like an idiot if they don't work out. If your choices are a) brilliant
dropout, or b) someone who went to Princeton but is really lazy, your
incentive is to send b). If a) works out, you get no direct benefit; if b)
doesn't work out, well, who could have predicted that?

------
giardini
Why should recruiters be better than anyone else at hiring? It should be
common knowledge by now that there is no way to differentiate great
programmers from flakes other than hiring them. Even then, a great programmer
in one environment may become a helpless flake in another. It's a _relation_,
not an attribute.

~~~
acgourley
Great recruiters would know both ends of the equation, and knowing that, make
good calls. I'm actually of the opinion that most technical companies are bad
at hiring. The only strategy that can be formalized and generalized is to
error on the side of caution, but this can be a problem in the current job
market where it's hard to find good people and you can't afford false
negatives.

------
inerte
And that`s why you should say you have worked on three well defined projects,
with tight schedules and scopes, and were able to deliver the client
requirements with awesome quality (insert anecdote about when a customer said
you did something incredible).

But now you`re looking for a different type of work (whatever the job
description says). That means you have to research the job/company/ask
questions before answering the recruiter.

You can`t change an industry. Leave the pragmatism aside when trying to get
money and play the game.

~~~
jongraehl
You mean idealism, not pragmatism.

------
javery
If you are talking to recruiters you are doing it wrong 90% of the time.

~~~
DeusExMachina
Not my experience.

I was looking for a job out of my country and through a recruiter I was able
to move and get a job with double the salary I had in my hometown.

Three months has passed and due to a stupid policy I don't like I'm switching
job again. A second recruiter found me a better position in another company,
with a higher salary (which is already quite high).

~~~
javery
Sure, most recruiters can get you good money at usually large companies that
may or may not actually be a good fit for you. It kind of speaks for itself
that you are leaving after a couple months.

I believe the best way to get a job you will love and get paid well to do it,
is to aggressively pursue companies that you want to work for. This is really
pretty easy nowadays, you find an email for the company and you write a great
cover letter and you send it off with your resume. Doesn't matter if they have
any openings or not. You should already know the companies products, how they
work, contribute to relevant open source, etc.

------
rman666
Start your own company and do your short-term projects through that company.
Then you can say you worked for one company over the past 14 months instead of
saying you worked for three.

