
The Knife Maker - rglover
http://thisismadebyhand.com/film/the_knife_maker
======
patio11
I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The
handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in
China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social
superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an
efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic
makes me positively Marxist. There was a time when only wealthy folks could
afford goods. Capitalism happened and now everyone can afford goods. This
_really discomfits some people_ , so they get very creative at inventing
reasons why the goods they are using today are the right goods and the goods
they were using ten years ago are now the wrong goods since poor people now
have access to them.)

~~~
mapleoin
So you're saying that fair trade coffee benefits "the white man" rather than
the producers in the third-world country? That's exactly the opposite of what
fair trade means.

Also, hand-made isn't fighting against capitalism, it's fighting against mass-
production, sweat-shops and machine-people jobs like the ones portrayed on
Chaplin's _City Lights_ or even Discovery Channel's _How It's Made_.

~~~
dangrover
No, but the price difference between buying normal and fair trade (as a
consumer) is much larger than the price difference between the underlying
coffee crop used in each.

Tim Harford wrote about this: [http://timharford.com/2008/04/business-life-
fair-trade-or-fo...](http://timharford.com/2008/04/business-life-fair-trade-
or-foul/)

In some cases, he says, fair trade is 10X the margin!

Fair trade exists to segment the market and collect more consumer surplus
(more than it exists to improve conditions).

~~~
fennecfoxen
Also, the Fair Trade people will only certify certain business structures
(they're really big fans of cooperatives), leaving a number of small family-
owned businesses out of their world-view. Not that cooperatives are bad or
anything, just that it's kind of a narrowing thing to do. They're opinionated.
You may or may not agree with all those opinions.

Fair-trade coffees are also subject to adverse selection. The really good
beans can be sold to coffee fanatics on their own merits, at a price above
generic fair-trade costs, leaving the inferior beans to be branded fair-trade.

This isn't to say Fair Trade is _evil_ , just that it's... limited and has a
few issues, and it's probably better these were discussed rather than covered
up in the name of promoting an abstract unspecified good which may or may not
actually justify the price premium. You may get better results by buying
normal and giving the savings away.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _You may get better results by buying normal and giving the savings away._
> //

Kinda like beating people up and then paying their hospital bills? Nice.

~~~
fennecfoxen
Yes, because buying something from a non-fair-trade coffee farm is "kinda
like" beating up an employee. In fact, for each dollar you spend on any non-
fair-trade coffee farm, the owner not only whips an employee, he makes fun of
the employee's daughter and calls her ugly. They'd all be better off if you
didn't spend any money on coffee at all. Also this is true of every coffee
farm everywhere in the world, except those few saintly coffee farms certified
by the experts at Fair Trade, who always thoroughly research and monitor every
operation and all sales of fair trade coffee to make sure that there's never
any abuse or fraud ever.

... Sorry. Cause-and-effect doesn't actually work that way. A facile equation
of non-fair-trade spending and employee abuse does not meaningfully contribute
to understanding or remediation of the many and varied problems facing the
many and varied nations of the developing world today.

Please. Can't you come up with a more meaningful, nuanced critique? The third
world deserves it.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
There has been ongoing evidence of both child and [child] slave labour being
used in chocolate production [in West Africa]. For example.

> _coffee farms certified by the experts at Fair Trade, who always thoroughly
> research and monitor every operation and all sales of fair trade coffee_ //

Research it yourself; and that's the Fairtrade mark (I've not personally
researched other fair trade certifying bodies). I did. What I found was a
rigorous system of monitoring. Once a firm has been well established and
proven to be providing the proper care to their employees, providing safety
equipment for example, I think they only send a person to inspect every 3
years - but, like I said that's after a long history of passing the rigorous
testing.

Never any abuse? Doubtful, there's abuse in countries with strict labour laws
that obviates (or should) the need for fair trade certification.

So then we come back to my metaphor (you understand the term and function
presumably, even though you used it as a direct statement). I don't see why
buying a chocolate bar should have me being part of a supply chain that
includes child/slave/below poverty labour and abuse of the workforce (like
spraying crops with pesticides when workers are working on them). Nor do I
feel that we're in such a state of poverty as a species that we need people to
be worked hard without access to sufficient funds to cover basic health and
education needs.

So, you feel Fairtrade fails? That we shouldn't support people working out of
poverty by preventing multinationals working for us from offering below
subsistence prices for crops? That we should exclude people from getting
educated and staying healthy in the name of greater profits for wealthy
capitalists?

You _appear_ to be worked up about my metaphor being imperfect; I couldn't
care less about the metaphor. From everything I've seen Fairtrade works.

I've seen it before, it amazes me really, that HN has railed so hard against
those that are trying to outlaw exploitative labour practices. Perhaps there
are too many people here making a profit off electronics put together in Asian
factories by underage workers who eke out their existence living amongst toxic
chemicals working hard every day to remain in poverty?

\--

<http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/producers/default.aspx>
[http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/business_services/product_certif...](http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/business_services/product_certification.aspx)

------
snikolic
This series really got me thinking about the programmer as a craftsman or an
artist. I know pg has written about this before, but I felt the connection for
the first time as I watched these videos. I really empathized with these guys:
the obsession, the passion to perfect some skill, wanting to create utility
for others, the risk of failing or looking crazy, the excitement of using
something you've built, chasing perfection. It all clicked for me. I think
we've all caught the same bug, in some way.

Check out the other video in this series about a distiller:
<http://thisismadebyhand.com/film/the_distiller>

All in all, this series is really beautiful and really well done. I'm looking
forward to what's to come.

~~~
3pt14159
Great site. Even the HTML looks like it was made by hand, except the weird
obfusticated javascript at the bottom.

Edit: it looks like he is using expression engine for the site.

~~~
there
i noticed that too. it builds the contact link, so the obfuscation is to hide
the email address from spammers.

------
kitcar
I don't totally get the thought that handmade is always better.

Specifically, reminds me of a skit from Portlandia (IFC) about hand made light
bulbs - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P85vZpYF3Yg> .

~~~
diego_moita
> I don't totally get the thought that handmade is always better.

This. I live in a 3rd world country (Brazil) and see a lot of truth in what
you say. This film talks about art, not about consistent production of
quality.

Take a man with passion, resources, intelligence and immense dedication and he
will produce a work of high quality; doesn't matter if it is shoes, painting,
engineering, suits or knives.

But it just doesn't scale. You won't find many more people with the same
skills. You won't be able to produce as much as 15 robots in Germany. And you
also need an extremely up-scale market for your product (NY food scene, in
this case). And you also need very efficient marketing (in this case a
photographer to introduce him to the chefs community).

Bottom line: this guy is like a panda living in a extremely rare and delicate
niche environment. Once the NY food scene vanishes he is toast. Find someone
in India or China willing to do the same for 1/10 th of the price and he is
toast. Have smarter knife making robots in Germany and he is toast. Any tiny
little perturbation can get him out of the market.

There's a reason why industrial revolution succeeded. There's a reason why
families of hundreds of years of pottery makers in India are going extinct
(lighter, cheaper and uglier plastic bowls). There's a reason why my wife's
father gave up on beautiful handmade carpentry. The reason is that ugly but
cheap and good enough is what almost everyone wants.

~~~
timwiseman
* cheap and good enough is what almost everyone wants.*

The key word was almost.

Some people are willing to pay much more for something that is hand-made by a
craftsman, even when there is something that is as good (or even better!) made
by a factory. Their willingness to pay goes up dramatically if the craftsman
is well known and signs or stamps his work, and can also go up if the
craftsman in some engages directly with the buyers and the buyers can get to
know the craftsman. Many value the authenticity and the connection to the
craftsman. Some, in the right context, value being able to show the object and
say "This was hand-crafted by xxx".

That is why, even though swords hardly ever see practical use anymore and you
could get a machine to manufacture a sword to high standards you still have a
few skilled craftsmen making a living hand-forging swords. Similarly, you can
get software to play Go for free, a cardboard Go-board that works well enough
for $25, and a decent bamboo machine-made set for under $100. But there are
still plenty of people paying substantially (sometimes _very_ substantially)
over $1000 for a hand-carved Goban made of kaya wood.

I do not think this trend will change any time soon.

------
willyt
These are nice knives, but is this not also a really slick piece of lifestyle
marketing?

Also, these knives are quite expensive. I'm not so sure if they are really up
there with the handmade japanese knives[1], seems like theres a bit more to it
than just sharpening a piece of hardened stainless?[2] Please correct me if
I'm wrong.

[1][http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/KNIVES/LAMINATEDSTEEL/JK...](http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/KNIVES/LAMINATEDSTEEL/JKC63LAYERDAMASCUS/SANTOKU160MM.aspx)

[2][http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/VIDEOS/KnifeMakingProces...](http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/VIDEOS/KnifeMakingProcess.aspx)

~~~
PonyGumbo
He's doing stock removal rather than forging (buys steel stock, cuts, shapes,
and sharpens it).

~~~
rdl
The only interesting part of these knives, IMO, are the pins (which he sources
from someone else). In addition to merely being stock removal, it's pretty
lame steel.

I far prefer Global (<http://www.global-knife.com/>) for mass-produced knives,
and Kramer (<http://kramerknives.com/>) for custom kitchen knives.

~~~
willyt
Global knives are good, I've got some, but apparently they reduced the
proportion of molybdenum in thier alloy a few years ago making the cutting
edge more brittle and therefore requiring more frequent and intensive
sharpening.

------
mapleoin
This is the most inspirational/life-changing video I've seen all year. I
really think that there is a huge amount of stuff that we could start building
or making locally, individually with skill, craft and dedication.

I would love to be able to work with my hands in a workshop, learning to make
unique and masterful things from a master craftsmanship instead of sitting for
8 hours a day in the office dealing with things so abstract that they
disappear when you switch off the electricity.

~~~
jerf
So do it.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I imagine that he can't afford to lose income for the time it would take to
train.

~~~
timwiseman
And worse,there is a good chance his income would be much lower than currently
even after he finished his training.

With that said, I used to go to some of the SCA meetings while I was in
college. I met more than one excellent craftsmen that did their crafting on
the weekend while maintaining a "normal" job during the week. Some made a
decent second income off it.

You can do both.

~~~
einhverfr
Here's a shameless plug for a friend of mine. Of course he is more interested
in art than functionality, but I am commissioning at least one piece from him:

<http://www.jloose.com/>

------
wmat
Just watched both available videos in the series and can't help but be
inspired. The point that the "art is in the details" of a hand made item
really resonates with me with respect to handmade guitars. Factory made
guitars, from the big manufacturers such as Fender, Gibson, Martin, etc. are
excellent guitars, but there's something about the attention to detail in a
hand made guitar that makes it special, makes it art. I really hope they plan
a film focusing on an small, independent luthier.

------
pcestrada
I found this fascinating. I love seeing people develop and demonstrate their
craft in a authentic, passionate way. There is a physical component to his
work where you use all your senses, such as when he feels the edge of the
sharpened knife with his thumb, that you just don't have with programming. To
produce a physical artifact that has the right balance, heft, lines, and
finish requires the integration of a lot of different skills that when done
properly, is deeply satisfying.

~~~
puredanger
I have rarely gone wrong in being a consumer of someone passionate about what
they are doing or in doing something I feel passionate about.

------
efsavage
A small part of me wishes that I didn't enjoy coding so much, or that I wasn't
good at it, or that it didn't pay so much better than woodworking, which I
find just as enjoyable.

------
e_g
Reminded me of this post <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2646501> about a
guy who created a knife from scratch, starting with the construction of this
own smelter.

------
codeslush
The part that struck me was when he said something along the lines of: It
takes 10,000 (or 15,000) hours just to get the necessary knowledge. Then, you
are at step one. You may or may not be good, but don't know until you've put
in the required time.

Also, the immediate authenticity I felt by this man and this story is
something amazing. Great way to start my day.

~~~
marisela_arias
_"10,000 hours of training, according to Malcolm Gladwell’s book Outliers.
Gladwell based this assertion on the work of Anders Ericsson, who studied
classical violinists and found that, in every case, it had taken a regimen of
2-3 hours a day for 10 years to develop their abilities. Later research by
Ericsson and others confirmed similar results in other fields."_

[http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/on-luck-
success-a...](http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/on-luck-success-
and-10000-hours.html)

~~~
jeira
I don't think it is as straightforward as that. Imagine you're learning chess
and you have a chess master as your teacher, you are going to annihilate
someone who has putted the same amount of time, even more, but who doesn't
have such a good teacher.

~~~
bricestacey
Yeah, the original states that the practice must be deliberate. Of course,
generally better practice would prevail.

~~~
pegasus
And that little side-note unravels the whole argument: how much better can
practice be? Can it be so focused that one reaches mastery in 5k hours? 1k? To
what degree is being a fast learner in a field a talent?

[http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/08/training-
talent-1000...](http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/08/training-
talent-10000-hours-and-genes.html)

------
davidjhall
If anyone finds this interesting, I recommend trying a
blacksmithing/bladesmithing course in your area. I took a weekend course in
knife-making and, while nowhere near the quality in these videos, it was a lot
of fun to create a knife to my specs from a thin scrap of steel. In the US,
take a look at ABANA.org.

Shameless plug: I've tried to start a new stack exchange on blacksmithing
here:
[http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/36172/blacksmithin...](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/36172/blacksmithing/)

------
webnrrd2k
I'm a hobby blacksmith, as well as a professional programmer, and I love
making physical things, too. This film strikes me in a very personal way. I
see a lot of intellectual discussion on this which, while interesting, I think
misses the point. This guy found a trade that he really loves, and is making
sacrifices for. He's making a living, but he's certainly not getting rich off
of it.

I do a lot of different things with blacksmithing, but I've been really
getting into kitchen knives, as well as spoons, ladle, forks, cleavers, etc...
I like combining copper work with blacksmithing.

I can't tell you how much I enjoy it. Mostly because I like making functional
and unique things. There is a great sense of satisfaction that I just don't
get from writing code. Also, blacksmithing uses a wonderful combination of
technical ability and visual/artistic skills. Also, it's hard to find good
friends and a good community that you feel comfortable in.

That film did a good job of expressing the emotional side of making stuff. It
really is just a _huge_ amount of fun. Thanks for posting that.

------
holdenc
This video reminds me of why I loved living in New York. And, it epitomizes
what is great about that city -- many people who believe that great art is
worth the sacrifice.

------
apechai
Beautiful knives.

I hope the handmade movement really takes off. Maybe people could consume less
but unique artifacts that have a real story behind them rather than
accumulating mountains of mass produced, generic stuff that ends up in a trash
heap a couple of years later.

~~~
culturestate
There is a happy medium with mass production - the main issue is that many
people (in my observation) no longer value quality equally to price, e.g. the
cheapest pot from WalMart will do, and when it chips or warps next year we'll
just spend $15 on another one instead of buying a single $50 version that will
last. One of the greatest lessons that I've ever learned in business is that
you shouldn't spend extravagantly, but you shouldn't be afraid to spend a
little more for quality where it matters.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
_you shouldn't be afraid to spend a little more for quality where it matters_

It's more likely that they don't see any reason to spend more than $15.
Someone knows they can get a pot that looks OK for $15, whereas the $50
doesn't have any immediately obvious benefit.

I love tools, but I'm far from a tool snob. I have lots of cheap tools because
I'm never going to wear out, e.g., a screwdriver. It's worth more to me to
have five $3 screwdrivers than a single $15 one. But I just spent $200 on a
wire crimping tool because I know that the $15 ones won't do the job right.
But if they did, then there is no way I'd buy the more expensive one. Most
people are just like that: they won't spend more than they have to unless
there is a clear benefit.

~~~
culturestate
> I know that the $15 ones won't do the job right. But if they did, then there
> is no way I'd buy the more expensive one

That's a matter of perspective. If you cook often and have had an opportunity
to use the two, you'll notice a stark contrast; just like you notice the
difference with crimpers. The guy spending a weekend to redo his home theater
wiring is probably going to opt for the $15 option.

How many people research purchases like pans and wire crimpers in order to
gain a proper perspective of where the price vs. quality lines cross, and how
many just go to the store and get the one with the prettier package? I think
that's where you start to see the trend I mentioned.

------
rkalla
Did anybody else get absolutely electrified when he described working in that
warehouse of shops with other creators and how the creative energy was
amplifying itself?

That sounds intoxicating. I would love a dev environment like that with a
small team. I have experienced this one time professionally in its truest
rawest sense... A small team hacking on fun problems. It was phenomenal,
literally hopping out of bed in the morning just to get to the office.

Anyone else experience this before? (not necessarily with dev if you have a
good story)

------
js2
In the same vein, but I found <http://devour.com/video/moroccan-woodturner/> a
lot more satisfying to watch.

------
mml
The thing that struck me about this film, is that he's not wearing safety
goggles. Stupid move.

------
evlapix
Making something from nothing has always given me the greatest high. This
video reminded me that it is that high that got me into software development.

When I was young (and had no money):

    
    
      - Made origami
      - Learned sailors knots
      - 3d sculptures of science fiction aircraft from index cards
      - Bow and arrows from q-tips and underwear rubber
      - Sailboats from 2x4's, coat hangers, plastic garbage bags, and fishing line
      - Skateboard ramps (usually bigger than I was capable of using and with
          none of the right tools)
      - A workbench
      - Peg board (hand drilled from scrap wood)
      - Dozens of hand drawn replicas of video game/anime art
      - Repaired the broken fin of a surfboard purchased at a garage sale (never used)
    

In high school I exploited my auto shop classes:

    
    
      - Replaced the rear differential on a 80's Mustang
      - Removed a motor from an early 90's Camaro
      - Built and installed a roll cage in an early 90's Camaro
      - Taped and sprayed flames on a fiberglass replica 32 Ford hood 
          as a demonstration of a new paint line for local body shops 
      - Completely dismantled the engine of 87 honda civic
      - Resurrected an 80's Volvo with 300k miles on it
      - Made a functioning 6" cowl induction hood for my 89 SR5 Toyota Corolla
    

From there I got a job at a hot-rod shop:

    
    
      - Teardown of a 52 Chevy Bel Air
      - Teardown, body work, and assembly of a split-window Corvette 
      - And countless others
    

In college majoring in Mechanical Engineering (what a joke):

    
    
      - Built a marshmallow launcher
      - Convinced a big angry muscle man with a knife to my throat not
          to hurt me, and steal a keg from a party instead
    

Once admitted to college, I was given a computer:

    
    
      - Pirated software
      - Converted drawings to vector graphics
      - Made techno songs
      - Made 3d models
      - Designed album covers
      - Frankenstein'd countless scrap computers
    

After I dropped out of college I became a restaurant server:

    
    
      - Documented everything I could about HTML/CSS
      - Created custom MySpace themes (and never made a dollar for it)
      - Built my profile in Flash to overcome MySpace's limitations
      - Hid all of the generated MySpace content (minus comments) 
          and built my profile from scratch
    

From there I became a developer. Software has been an incredible way for me to
create and learn. Sadly, the projects my employers provide aren't always
challenging enough. Additionally, the complimentary benefits of working with
my hands versus sitting at a computer have drawn me to other projects:

    
    
      - Built an engine lift
      - Restored a 1987 19' Galaxy boat that I bought 
          for $200 on CL (engine had collapsed into the floor)
      - Bootstrapped a prototype analytics app for the last year (not launched)
      - Insulated, ran electrical, and drywalled my garage
      - Built a workshop (bench, storage, etc) in the garage of my new house
      - Buy/restore/sell furniture on CL
    

Currently I'm restoring a pool table I bought for $100 on CL:

    
    
      - Built strong/true cabinet from cheap construction grade lumber
      - Carved, antiqued, and stained the cabinet to make it not
          look like cheap construction grade lumber
      - Built a slate sled for moving the 1" thick slate pieces up to the 3rd floor

~~~
mikecarlucci
Exactly. This is the sentiment I expected to see on HN, where there is always
praise for the hacker "building" and sticking it to the man because he/she can
make something on their own.

~~~
einhverfr
After reading books like "The Servile State" by Hilaire Belloc and "Birth as
an American Rite of Passage" by Robbie Davis-Floyd, I think there _should_
always be praise for this sort of thing.

Our culture has become extremely centered on mechanics, whether social
mechanics and processes of businesses or automation of manufacturing, and to
make humans again the center of society will take a lot of effort, but I
believe it is a worthy task.

------
jjanzer
The parallels between Joel Bukiewicz's passion and many startups are striking.
Some people understand that extreme amounts of money isn't what makes them
happy, rather being able to completely explore their own medium in the ways
they choose is where the love is.

Amazing film, very well done.

------
tonyedgecombe
In a similar vain:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGMj7o6AwnM>
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM0VnL30rDc>

------
trigger
Reminds me of the Irish TV series Hands,
<http://www.irelandstraditionalcrafts.com/> . These programs were shot during
the seventies and eighties and record traditional craftsmen at work. It was
perfect timing because they were probably the last generation who lived off
their trade.

------
pkamb
Hope you didn't have anything to do today:

<http://fuckyeahmadeinusa.tumblr.com/>

------
keiferski
There's a lot of similar material on <http://www.coolhunting.com/video>

There's actually one about this same guy from 2008:
<http://www.coolhunting.com/tech/cut-brooklyn-kn.php>

------
chrislloyd
There's another great interview with Joel as part of the Chow.com Obsessives
series (all of which are worth a look for themselves):

[http://www.chow.com/videos#!/show/obsessives/55121/obsessive...](http://www.chow.com/videos#!/show/obsessives/55121/obsessives-
knifemaker)

------
brador
Aside: What is with the proliferation of vimeo usage? I've found it more
likely to crash my laptop, making me reluctant to click. Never had a crash
from youtube.

~~~
blehn
That's easy. Better video quality. More attractive controls/player. A
community that enjoys this type of thing.

Note: Youtube has been improving with respect to the first two.

Also, does it really lock up your whole system?

~~~
brador
Not the whole system, just crashes firefox. I also don't like that I can't
reduce the resolution as finely as I can with youtube.

------
powertower
The other video is here: <http://vimeo.com/28408829>

I can't view it through their website in IE8.

------
ambertch
These comments are so fascinating because they illustrate with a fair degree
of uniformity, the personality profile of the HN crowd.

Two kinds of people we're all aware of: logical/rational vs.
emotional/creative. That whole left vs. right brain stuff.

Remember, you need to think with both points of view to tackle the big
consumer tech problems (where a looooot of the $$$ is) in the coming years...
so

------
xbryanx
It's important to remember that he's not entirely making these tools by hand.
He's use mass produced drill presses, sand paper, lumber, and metal alloys. I
think what he's doing is nice and pretty, but let's not wrap it too much of a
handmade ethos.

~~~
evlapix
Most crafts require tools. Where do you draw the line?

Even with bushcraft you start with a knife and axe which are likely
manufactured, not handmade.

~~~
bch
I'm reminded of Dick Proenneke <http://bit.ly/s2VFdu>.

Here's a start to "Alone In the Wilderness": <http://bit.ly/uAcBsD> ,
documenting his work and time spent building a life in Alaska, very much
"handmade".

------
marcamillion
Where can I see the price and/or link to buy a set?

~~~
sjm
<http://cutbrooklyn.com/home.html>

