
A Design Lab Is Making Rituals for Secular People - raleighm
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/ritual-design-lab-secular-atheist/559535/?single_page=true
======
unethical_ban
Contrary to quite flippant and rudely opinionated comments elsewhere in the
thread, I was talking to a friend the other day about the benefit of ritual,
habit, and community. I think that there is something lost in society when we
are all shut away from our neighbors, with no bearing on expectations and
support from the community. I don't think God is needed for it, but I think
rituals are useful to society.

~~~
zer00eyz
Right, but there are other places to get this.

Casual sports for adults.

You local maker space.

Having friends over - for a while we used to host a Sunday dinner and have
guests over weekly (pasta and sauce is cheep and easy).

For myself kids, and their demands in modern America pretty much killed all of
these things off for me... Now my rituals are their activities.

~~~
GavinMcG
Most of the things you mention are relatively small scale and not necessarily
consistent or regular.

Church is every week, at the same time, with enough people involved to have a
consistent community – even if individual members don't show up consistently.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Church is every week

Every day, in many cases, though perhaps considered obligatory only slightly
more than once a week.

------
iamcasen
Hmmm, this seems a bit problematic to me. I agree, a majority of the big
religions and churches no longer fit with the times. People will always crave
spirituality, but these days they are rejecting religions. I think that's ok.

That being said, I don't think rituals can be trivialized in this way. Some of
the most powerful rituals are definitely packed with the wisdom of thousands
of years of practice, some of which is only now starting to be understood by
modern science (fasting, and how it boosts immune health comes to mind).

We are losing touch with that ancient lineage, and I think that's a mistake.

~~~
Numberwang
It's all bullshit and without wisdom. Just because you want to believe
something is true or holds truths doesn't make it so.

If you put all religion and ideologies ever invented in one hand and the
concept of washing your hands in the other, washing your hands wins without
contest.

~~~
learc83
I think you would benefit by spending a bit more time studying history and how
the various religions and ideologies shaped cultures and civilizations.

>all religion and ideologies

The rule of law is an ideology that is probably a bit more important that the
singular concept of washing your hands.

~~~
Numberwang
Well I did my masters in history of ideas, but I guess I didn't understand the
smart.

~~~
gaius
_masters in history of ideas_

That’s not a thing

~~~
Numberwang
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ideas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ideas)

wash your hands.

------
stephenhess
Love this. I'm as harsh of a critic of organized religion as you'll find but I
think secular culture has a lot to learn in terms of how religious rituals and
habits can foster human excellence, joy. And finding a way of reformulating
these to be consistent with scientific thinking (i.e. throw out the mythology)

Specifically, I've been really curious to understand the relationship between
faith and anxiety/depression. You see a surge of mindfulness and meditative
practices in the Bay Area that appear like secular replacements for how
"faith" in the Judeo-Christian tradition helps people face the unknown and the
fundamental uncertainty of the universe.

~~~
iamcasen
I agree. Mindfulness really is just another word for spirituality. Being
mindful of where your food comes from, and being thankful for the nourishment
it provides your mind and body, is just a different way of praying and
"thanking the lord" for your food.

Religions are a way of trying to package this mindfulness and disseminate it.
As you know, most organized religions have been coopted by power-hungry men
and twisted into the ridiculous displays we now know today. We should reject
those religions and what they've become, but we shouldn't reject the root they
sprung from.

~~~
GavinMcG
I think there's a pretty significant difference between mindfulness and
spirituality.

Spiritual traditions may well ritualize mindfulness, but there are many other
components of spirituality apart from it, and there are secular mindfulness
practices that don't intersect with the feelings and experiences many
associate with spirituality.

~~~
krageon
"mindfulness" is precisely the parts of spirituality that could nicely be
packaged and sold to people that feel there's something missing from their
lives. Now there is this commercial alternative that everyone appears to be in
to, and the word is used so much it's basically lost all meaning (to be fair
this happens to everything that is over marketed).

------
WalterSear

        It is by Philz alone I set my mind in motion. 
        It is by the juice of Arabica that thoughts acquire speed, 
        the lips acquire stains, 
        the stains become a warning. 
        It is by Philz alone I set my mind in motion.

------
gumby
Many rituals are really useful as I recently learned. E.g. when someone dies,
what do you do? If you do the prescribed process X nobody can tell you you
skimped and you don't have to worry about going overboard. Want to have a
wedding? Hey, there's a handy kit (vows, receiving line, cake, whatever) so
you don't have to invent it as you go along.

The big downside of course is, like so many things, they can be hacked as a
way of controlling people, including adding pointless ones. But if you see
them as opt-in toolkits you can take advantage of the pieces you want.

And they are hardly stuck in stone: a white wedding dress (or a specific
wedding dress at all) is a pretty recent invention (thanks, Victoria) that
spread into all sorts of odd corners of the world because people like it. Why
not?

------
lainga
"Millennials Are Killing Secularism"

------
rukittenme
> from _How do I celebrate the birth of my baby boy?_ to _How can I transfer
> my own sins onto a live chicken?_

The Atlantic seems to have a strong grasp on organized religion.

------
tenaciousDaniel
This should be a big hit among people who choose their tattoos from a clip-art
catalog.

------
Pamar
“Rituals are comforting: Rituals combat loneliness.”

(A Prayer for Owen Meany - John Irving)

[https://books.google.de/books?id=cW8Z_UfqnH4C&pg=PA296&lpg=P...](https://books.google.de/books?id=cW8Z_UfqnH4C&pg=PA296&lpg=PA296&dq=a+prayer+for+owen+meany+rituals+loneliness&source=bl&ots=R_rzhXrkL1&sig=a3kOfVFpuLC_nhbGwXiyGhFfKvU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG8cbhtPTaAhWFhSwKHWnACI8Q6AEISTAD#v=onepage&q=a%20prayer%20for%20owen%20meany%20rituals%20loneliness&f=false)

------
tomc1985
Why??????? Mercifully, being free of religious encumbrances means being free
of ritual and other pointless prescriptions.

If someone really needs the 'comfort' of a ritual so badly, they can make
their own, though, to me, allowing oneself to be bossed around by something as
mechanistic as prescribed rituals screams of contradiction.

It is sad that so few can stand emptiness, or boredom, or silence, and that
they feel the need to fill up otherwise perfectly good space and time with
fruitless endeavors just to be comfortable.

~~~
sewercake
I don't know how I feel about the approach presented in the article, but
there's a big difference between a personal ritual and one shared and
practiced by a community writ-large. This firm seems to be focusing on the
latter.

~~~
tomc1985
Both are pointless, and religion overwhelming sells the latter

~~~
toasterlovin
They are pointless to you.

Their universality points to their importance to humans, in general. I mean,
one of the key markers of our species is that we ritually dispose of our dead.
That feature of humanity goes back hundreds of thousands of years and it
_evolved_.

~~~
tomc1985
It is ritual attached to function. We also non-ritualistically bury our dead.

Ritual, alone, is fine. But human beings inevitably have to impose their BS on
other people, who don't always agree or want what is being imposed. If the
ritual-followers could keep to themselves that would be one thing. But no, its
'ooooh you must share in this!'

~~~
trav4225
"human beings inevitably have to impose their BS on other people"

Welcome to planet Earth! ;-) Humans do this with everything, regardless of
whether they are sincere believers, religious zealots, strident atheists, or
Silicon Valley humanists. :-)

------
neves
They should take a look at the Positivists:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/world/americas/nearly-
in-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/world/americas/nearly-in-ruins-the-
church-where-sages-dreamed-of-a-modern-brazil.html)

The "Science Church" was once very important in Brazil, to the point that the
words in Brazilian flags were from their movement motto.

------
gnicholas
I know the head of a newly-launched community who consulted with Stanford
D-School folks as part of his pre-launch process.

They urged him to look to religion and cults in order to come up with
practices/rituals that can build community and create enduring connections.

Based on what I know of this community's onboarding process, I'd say he took
them up on their advice.

------
cncrnd
Secular people have been making rituals since the beginning of time...for many
it's as simple as grabbing a cup of coffee before starting a pile of work.

The d school and the work that comes out of it is mostly BS. Out of curiosity,
has anyone attributed their success for the d school and have any of it's
projects been impactful?

------
anotherevan
I remember this[1] talk by Alain de Botton on "Atheism 2.0" talked a lot about
the benefits of ritual.

[1]:
[https://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0](https://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0)

------
captainbland
> "Now, if you’re really going to speak Millennial, ritual has to be
> fundamentally subjective in the sense that it has to be intensely personally
> meaningful and relevant. As soon as it speaks to my truth, that’s
> authenticity—that’s how we define authenticity now"

... This is how venture capitalists spend their money.

------
doctorRetro
Please, please tell me no one gets paid to do this. Please.

