
Amateur Sleuths Aim to Identify Charlottesville Marchers, but Sometimes Misfire - duck
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-doxxing.html
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nemo44x
In no uncertain terms this is libel when they misfire. This is not a crime but
it is a tort. Those who have been libeled on twitter and other written mediums
(or slandered on Youtube, for example) should take immediate and full action
prosecuting those that offended. Fierce civil punishment should be put forth
to discourage this type of discourse in a lawful society.

We have laws for this kind of stuff.

Saying that, those that were properly identified should be willing to face the
consequences of their repugnant actions. If that's not desirable then simply
reject associating yourself with an uncivilized public mob of any sort.

~~~
taneq
It's a crime if the accusations are accompanied by any sort of call to
violence against the accused.

~~~
ThrustVectoring
Accusations of being a Nazi are inherently a call to violence. The amount of
"bash the fash" and "it's O.K. to punch Nazis" means that people can
reasonably expect violence to be inflicted on folks named-and-shamed as
fascist.

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jacquesm
This is no different than vigilante justice and could easily get innocent
people in a lot more trouble than it would be worth for a guilty party to walk
without being id'd. I sincerely hope the authorities will throw the book at
those that go about this in a half assed way and cause actual damage.

~~~
Overtonwindow
It's coming.. I fear this is the end of this terrible moment in our history.
Something will happen, and then the mob, be it the right, or the left, but
possibly both, will mobilize and people will begin killing one another. A true
riot like we've never seen. I am afraid, but resolved that it will likely take
death and destruction before society gets a collective slap of sense.

~~~
jacquesm
I fear with you but hope that cooler heads will prevail before then. Way too
much frustration has been building up it needs some kind of release but I'd
rather not see war or civil war. Even a 'true riot' I'd rather avoid.

The problem is that a 'true riot' could easily be the spark that provides the
activation energy for a 'true civil war'.

Most of these things are about activation levels being crossed and then there
is really almost no way back.

~~~
jamesmp98
I don't think a civil war is possible.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I think it would require the military to become divided.

This seems unlikely.

~~~
jacquesm
That depends on who heads up the military. And that could be a bit of a
problem with the present day leader.

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aaron695
Most humans get enjoyment from hurting others at a base level, but decent
people try not do it because of a higher level of functioning and because of
cultural values.

Unfortunately many parts of society, accept/encourage this behavior in certain
situations. (IE the way smokers are treated by many people, what a turn
culture has had there)

Even if it was him, he should not have been doxxed. A decent human would try
and help him if he was wrong and it also sets us up for a decent society.

This conversation really should not be around guilt or innocence, it should be
around doxxing and attacking individuals.

Stick to zombie movies. That's what they are there for, we get to hurt
'people' but not 'real' people.

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ahugebeach
Misfire is an under statement.

Ruining the lives of innocent people because of mob bloodlust is wrong.

Hopefully the doxxers get sued for defamation.

~~~
lightedman
Twitter has shown that they can and do exert control over what's posted on
their platform. No service provider immunity for them, they're aiding and
abetting this. They need to get sued, too.

~~~
nemo44x
The law specifically says they are not liable. Either is someone who
perpetuates the info by retweeting, for instance.

However if you modify the retweet at all then you too can be held liable.

~~~
lightedman
The law states they are not liable as long as they do not demonstrate
effective control on what happens with their service. They have demonstrated
that they do indeed control what happens on their service, and what gets
posted there.

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DrScump
Nothing was learned, apparently, from the massive misidentification lynch mob
on Reddit in the wake of the Boston Marathon bombing.

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Overtonwindow
There was an interesting book recently called "So You've Been Publicly Shamed"
by Jon Ronson which explored what happened when the mob mentality doxxed
someone, for better or for worse. I think this unfortunate situation is clear
evidence that you should avoid publishing your photo, and personal details
online, and do all that you can to build a firewall against the casual mob.

~~~
smsm42
That sounds like cure worse than the disease. So I can't share my memories
with friends, can't have normal public presentation for work, can't speak
publicly and have public persona to communicate with others - out of fear that
one day a mob of idiots could randomly target me for something I didn't do
because some idiot published something on some idiotic forum? Is that really a
way to live?

~~~
quuquuquu
As someone who has been doxxed, ridiculed, harrassed, hacked etc

I can absolutely confirm that life is better now outside of the public eye and
I am very glad that google searches of my name has dropped off over the years

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0xbear
Dude himself has been doxxed by 4chan already, and confirmed his identity on
TV. I figure that twitter account has at most couple of weeks of life left in
it, until the wrongfully accused serve the guy with legal paperwork. Just to
save you a search:
[https://twitter.com/LoganJames](https://twitter.com/LoganJames)

~~~
tanilama
Doxxing works both way. Without some brain gymnastics, it is hard to persuade
oneself that some cases of doxxing are good, while others are bad.

~~~
maxerickson
Is it doxxing to provide a tip to law enforcement?

(An indictment would end up having the person publicly identified with the
actions in the indictment)

~~~
CodeWriter23
No. Doxxing quite specifically is the PUBLIC disclosure of personal details.

~~~
maxerickson
Yes, note the parenthetical. Police generally publicly disclose the names of
people that are charged with crimes.

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BadassFractal
But hey, remember kids, it's just a bit of unfortunate collateral damage,
totally justified when you gotta punch a nazi. After all, punching nazis
worked well in the 40s.

/s

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mythrwy
"The internet vigilantes claimed some successes over the weekend. One rally
participant, Cole White, was fired from his job at a hot dog restaurant in
Berkeley, Calif."

Hmm.. so is that actually a win?

What is wrong with people? I seriously want to know. Both sides. How dumb do
you have to be to march around with torches across the country because they
are going to take down a statue of a Confederate general. And how much dumber
have you got that you to be to try to prevent people from expressing
themselves. Let them have a ball, march around all night with torches if they
so please. Then buy a plane ticket home after the statue gets taken down
having accomplished nothing but being a laughable buffoon. Why does it have to
degenerate to intolerance and shocking stupidity in all directions? Has
humanity always been like this? Or is it just spoiled moderns who don't live
in the real world and think little tiny stuff is worth getting in a huff about
because the vacuum of modern life has removed real problems from their
conception? Anyway, the whole thing is disturbing. And unbelievable in
juvenile foolishness. Very hard time conceiving what either side hopes to get
out of their behavior here. The solution to people acting silly isn't to act
silly yourself. It's laughter.

~~~
bassman9000
I understand people wanting to keep what they consider part of their history.

If it was just for the pure symbolism or credentials of the person
represented, shouldn't the Seattle Lenin statue be removed too?

~~~
tacomonstrous
Lenin wasn't the proximate cause of generational misery for an entire
community of Americans (and yes, I realise there is also a sizeable group of
escapees from Soviet communism here, but I hope that I don't have to point out
the obvious differences in scale and effect).

~~~
matthewmarkus
As a Lithuanian-American, I'm appalled that you would shrug off the hate
implicit in that statue.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Lithu...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Lithuania)

"Deportations of the civilians served a double purpose: repressing resistance
to Sovietization policies in Lithuania and providing free labor in sparsely
inhabited areas of the Soviet Union."

~~~
tacomonstrous
While I certainly wouldn't 'shrug off' anything, there is a very material
difference between a privately held statue to a foreign historical figure with
a ruinous effect on a large segment of the world's populations and a public
commemoration of an actual traitor to the nation, responsible for attempting
to defend the actual enslavement of a large population of Americans.
Especially when the main utility of the former in this context appears to be
to distract from the latter.

~~~
matthewmarkus
If it is a distraction to the latter, then shouldn't it come down? Next,
you're going to defend the Gandhi statue on the Embarcadero in San Francisco,
I suppose!

[http://www.gandhism.org/san-francisco/](http://www.gandhism.org/san-
francisco/)

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lightedman
Boston Marathon all over again...

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davidreiss
These people have to stop. They are the first to complain about doxxing and
the first to label others as violent. But they themselves turn around and are
violent and actively pursue doxxing.

Can you imagine how outraged these same people would be if the right doxxed
people who attended LGBT parade and got them fired?

Also, their behavior isn't helping. It's just giving the right more power,
attention and sympathy.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the extreme left going crazy over these marches,
nobody would have cared. Let them have their silly marches. But they can't
because they want attention and notoriety just like these marchers.

~~~
rhcom2
Attending a LGBT parade and attending a white supremacy rally are not
equivalent.

~~~
davidreiss
Depends on where you are in the world. In many places around the world,
attending an LGBT parade will get you fired, arrested and even killed.

I'm not saying they are morally "equal". I'm just pointing out why we have
freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and rights.

Even in the US, 50 years ago, attending an LGBT parade would have been far
more damaging than attending a white supremacy rally.

The point is that having rights and protecting everyone's rights is what is
important. Even those of white supremacists.

Otherwise, rights are meaningless and we just have tyranny of the majority or
public opinion.

