

Why Is Almost No One Using Apple Pay? - walterbell
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quickerbettertech/2015/06/01/why-is-almost-no-one-using-apple-pay/

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specialist
The retail (POS) experience is still inconsistent, frustrating.

Some POS always require a signature, which I don't understand. Some POS allow
"swiping" at any time, others fail unless done at just the right time. Some
POS are just flakey (please try again, while the line behind you glares).

Apple needs to publish a POS-side Human Interface Guideline (to compliment the
iOS side).

[https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/UserEx...](https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/MobileHIG/ApplePay.html)

They also need to create an exemplar POS for others to copy.

And since we seem stuck with the self-service checkout, Apple needs to fix
that experience too. Currently, they're two different UIs bolted together,
both terrible.

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jsight
Yes, everything about it is awkward. Is the timing right? Is the phone in the
right place? Does this terminal even work with mobile payments (regardless of
whether it appears to be one that _should work)? Does anyone even understand
what you are doing if you have difficulty?

It's not hard to see why this is having a difficult time gaining traction. The
payoff for the consumer isn't particularly large, even when it works well.

The notable exception might be vending machines. That has worked pretty well
on the few occasions that I have tried it, and is much easier than a swipe.

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PaulHoule
The elephant in the room is that from the consumer's POV there is nothing
wrong with credit card payments. Often now you can just swipe and sign no
signature for small purchases. Try to add contactless or contact or other
smart card tech and it screws up wastes peoples time and you become one of the
people George Carlin wants to kill.

Merchants have problems but apple pay doesn't solve them, in particular the 6%
fraud rate is even worse than the black card. The current model supports high
rates for the banks because they eat the fraud. A drastically cheaper system
needs to greatly reduce fraud and that ain't easy.

~~~
davidf18
Apple Pay does solve the fraud rate since it only uses a token and does not
pass the vendors POS terminal the actual CC number, thus the vendor can't
possibly be held accountable for the fraud -- only the bank which approves the
fraudulent CC can be held accountable.

~~~
PaulHoule
Hypothetically it does, but practically it is too easy to bind a card to Apple
Pay so that binding a card to Apple Pay is a great way to take advantage of a
stolen card.

Also note that the people who are most interested in new and exotic payment
systems are the scammers.

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robbfitzsimmons
The only place I regularly use it is at Whole Foods, where it actually works
quite well and is a bit faster than a card. And given the glares one gets in
the WF line, I would definitely be informed if it was inconveniencing
anyone...

However, this looks to have been the result of concerted corporate effort and
training (every clerk knows how it works, etc.). Can't see it catching on in a
small business.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Agreed. My sister owns a coffee shop/chocolate shop. There's no advantage for
her at all - its all for the customer. And most of her customers are making
small purchases, trivial to do with cash or a card.

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rgbrenner
I wanted to use Apple Pay so bad.. loaded several cards into it, and tried it
everywhere I shopped.. Turns out, not a single place I shop at regularly
accepted apple pay/nfc.

I know visa/mc/etc are pushing nfc and POSs are required to be updated soon...
so maybe next year.

I don't think anyone who has tried Apple Pay is wondering why no one is using
it.

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PaulHoule
I have been getting the smart cards with contacts from my bank, I think the
banks are pushing the contact standard because smart phones don't support
contacts and it helps them keep the card racket going.

~~~
rgbrenner
You're right.. that's EMV (not nfc).. that's what I was thinking of. Merchants
are required to update their POSs by Oct of this year for EMV.

But when they upgrade, newer terminals usually also support nfc.

~~~
PaulHoule
My understanding is that EMV is a protocol that can work over the wired
interface or over NFC. I have a contactless debit card I was issued some time
ago that definitely talks to the NFC radio in my Nexus 7

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davidf18
In Manhattan I use Apple Pay all of the time and it is more convenient than
using CC. Since it sends to the POS terminal a token instead of your CC
number, it is also far more secure. If Apple Pay were around and used at
Target and Home Depot those people who would have used it would not have their
CC numbers stolen by hackers.

When I tell people the extra protection of Apple Pay, it makes them far more
interested in using it. Who wants to be part of the next Target, Home Depot,
Neiman Marcus violation of security?

I tend to avoid if possible these places that demand cash payments for less
than $10, so in fact these places lose business because I know I'm not the
only one.

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breals
I've used google wallet for years and basically came to the conclusion, that
outside of novelty, it doesn't offer any benefits over a card. And it's often
faster to just use my card than to pull my phone out, unlock it, make sure the
app opens and the reader/phone do their connection thing.

As a partner in a small business, who uses a service like square, adding
mobile payments is something we'd like to do but we aren't buying hardware to
support it, it makes no business sense.

~~~
soylentcola
I've also used Wallet for a couple of years and for a while I was using it
whenever possible. Usually, my phone is quicker to grab than pulling out my
wallet and finding the right card, etc. Not by much but slightly easier.

Likewise, it was a minor novelty at first so I enjoyed using it. Just tap,
pay, and a receipt scrolls up the screen.

But then a bunch of my normal shops had issues when their POS provider
disabled Google/Apple options to push their own. Also, some places where it
should work, the terminal was broken and only accepted swipes. Then there's
the paper receipt that they still hand you on top of the one you already have
in your email. Still have to sign the slip. Basically the benefits of
electronic payment end up negated by the continuation of paper receipts and
signatures and are again relegated back to novelty status.

I think I mostly stopped using Wallet after a few attempts failed due to
faulty POS terminals or changing vendor policies and I had to put the phone
away and dig out the card. At that point, I wasn't just using a slightly less
convenient method. I was using it _after_ failing to use the slightly more
convenient method.

If POS vendors actually had any pressure to properly support Apple/Google
payment systems I'd go back to using it in a heartbeat but since they don't
directly suffer from poor performance (as if some chain store is really gonna
hound the POS company because a segment of their customers was mildly annoyed)
there is little pressure for them to improve.

Stores themselves might be pressured because they directly face the public but
there's not enough motivation to invest the resources when your customers are
Rite Aid, Best Buy, Safeway, and Home Depot. Those companies only care that
the POS works most of the time and doesn't cost too much.

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agd
In London, lots of shops/bars support contactless card payments, and everyone
I know has contactless bank cards.

Doesn't seem to be a strong reason for mobile payment right now.

~~~
shirro
In Australia and I pay the majority of transactions with a wave of a card. The
last thing I want to do is be fumbling for a phone and having to unlock it,
find an app etc. I think mobile payments are a complete waste of time.
Practically every modern country you have contactless payments for the small
stuff, petrol, coffee, meals and chip and pin for the larger amounts. I don't
understand why the idea still persists.

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alistproducer2
Like so much "innovation" coming out of the tech community, mobile payments is
a solution in search of a problem. Mobile payments are not faster, safer, or
more convenient than the existing system.

I understand the potential payoff for a tech company makes the development of
such a redundant technology worth the risk; it's still a sh __ty idea.

~~~
davidf18
Apple Pay is faster to use than CC and it confers the additional benefit that
since Apple only sends a token to the vendors POS terminal your CC number
can't possibly be hacked, unlike the cases of Target, Home Depot, and Neiman
Marcus to name a few.

It is faster since you simply hold your iPhone6 (+) over the CC terminal and
press your thumb down. This is certainly faster than fishing the CC out of
your wallet, swiping it and signing the receipt.

~~~
alistproducer2
I didn't know that about Apple Pay (not an apple guy). I concede that that
system is faster, more secure and more efficient. You win.

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drudru11
I like Apple Pay. I use it every time I can. I can't stand receipts and
signing.

What I think the reporter isn't covering adequately is why many small
merchants are cash only. I suspect they are doing this to avoid taxes. These
merchants know that once the txn is in a computer, there is easy visibility on
their cash flow.

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vosper
Another problem is that paying with your phone is only more convenient if you
have your phone in your hand already. Otherwise, men are probably going to the
pockets of their trousers (wallet in one, phone in the other). Women are
probably going dig in their purse, which has both their cards (often in a
smaller wallet) and their phone. At that point you may as well go for the
tried-and-tested, rather than the phone.

If you happen to have earbuds in (so many people, these days) and then moving
the phone around is annoying because of the cord.

If the smart watches can do payments then it should be more convenient,
provided the actual mechanics of holding or swiping the back of your wrist to
the terminal works.

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ksec
From what i have seen i think the experience is pretty bad.

Apple Pay is (comparatively )unreliable. It could be the terminal, it could be
the software, it could be the iPhone or Touch ID. I dont know, but you are 10x
more likely getting into problem then waving with your plastic card. People
dont like to risk and be embarrassed.

There is no real incentive to use it. If Apple could have an App and store how
i had spent the money with Apple Pay, abit like personal Finance organizer
then i would have use it just to keep track of my spending.

It is slow, when i saw the demo it took 3 seconds, ( actually in real life it
is likely to be 4+ ) I thought it was really slow. Compare to places like
Singapore, Hong Kong, or Japan where you get sub 1 seconds payment using NFC
card. ( Although they are not credit card based )

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paulhauggis
Many of my friends don't trust it and would rather use something like credit
cards with the new secure chips.

