
Ask HN: How do tech companies typically use job references? - guacamoleSoda
Hi folks,<p>I&#x27;m planning to leave my current position soon. This position is my first job out of college. I&#x27;m looking for senior SDE roles. I&#x27;m aware that I&#x27;m going to be asked for references by a number of companies. I have some questions:<p>- How important are references, typically? Are they just a sanity check after a successful round of interviews? Or are they more important?<p>I understand it&#x27;s different depending on the company. I have no insight into how tech companies use references. Historically, for internships I&#x27;ve accepted, my references have never been contacted.<p>- Is providing solely peers (including senior peers, like team leads) or direct reports (e.g. interns I&#x27;ve managed and mentored) as references okay? Is not including a manager a red flag?<p>I don&#x27;t want my manager to know I&#x27;m leaving until I&#x27;ve accepted an offer elsewhere and have given notice. On top of that, our relationship has been a bit cool as of late. I don&#x27;t think I can trust him&#x2F;her to give me a glowing reference. My relationship with my current co-workers, however, is excellent (as well as past interns I&#x27;ve mentored&#x2F;managed). I know they&#x27;ll give me some great and truthful references. In addition, I think my co-workers are better positioned to assess my skills as a software engineer; we do code reviews and design reviews and talk shop together daily, but my manager rarely participates. Moreover, I rarely see or speak to my manager and I honestly don&#x27;t feel he&#x2F;she has an accurate picture of me or my skills.<p>Thanks folks!<p>Edit: When I say tech companies, I&#x27;m referring primarily to Bay Area companies (e.g. Google, Facebook, mid-sized startups, unicorns, etc...). I&#x27;ll be interviewing for offices located within the US.
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giaour
I've never given a current manager as a reference. Not wanting to alert your
current employer that you're seeking a new job is pretty typical, and the
hiring manager should understand. Senior peers are a good substitute. In my
experience, your references will usually be contacted.

~~~
guacamoleSoda
Ah, I see how the wording can be confusing. I'll edit the post for
clarification I'm not a contractor. I'm a full time SDE.

By "true" job, I meant to imply I've had short-term jobs, like SDE
internships, during college. I suppose I could use references from those
positions. However, I wouldn't want to as they were quite a while back and my
personality and skillset and responsibility has grown substantially since
then.

Anyways, my main concern was not including any sort of manager in my pool of
references. Ideally, I'd just want to use current peers. They know me well and
have a lot to say. I'm afraid anyone 5+ years back whom I only worked for 3
months would barely remember me.

~~~
bigiain
> I'm afraid anyone 5+ years back whom I only worked for 3 months would barely
> remember me.

Pick one you had a good relationship with. Call them up and talk to them, tell
them you want a reference, and tell them what you've done since you worked for
them.

That's what everybody else is doing...

~~~
guacamoleSoda
Got it. My plan right now is to use:

\- An intern who I managed.

\- A current co-worker who I've collaborated closely with on a number of
projects.

\- Our current team lead who I regularly collaborate with on architecture
design, but I don't report to him.

These people already know that I'm looking for a new position and they've
agreed to provide me with a reference. They should be able to confirm any
projects and contributions at my current job, where I've been for 4+ years, as
well as speak highly about my performance. Is this set of references good
enough for a mid-level SDE position or should I look further back into my job
history to add an actual manager [1]?

[1] I know I said I wanted senior SDE earlier but I realized I'm better suited
for mid-level right now.

~~~
bigiain
If it were me, I'd still put in someone who'd been an actual manager - even if
it were from 4-5 years back - there's a few questions hiring managers ask
about what you were like to manage that can only be answered by someone who's
managed you - things not related to your current skillset, but more about
thins like attitudes to authority, curiosity, adaptability, teamwork,
willingness and speed of learning - stuff like that.

~~~
jackgolding
Yup over half of recruiters or HR I've dealt with have wanted a current
manager as a must have.

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bigiain
1) Everybody in the hiring process knows that people are _super_ selective
about who they choose to use as references. When checking them it's
fantastically unusual to get anything less than a completely glowing almost
certainly pre-arranged set of answers.

2) Everybody in the hiring process knows that candidates mostly cannot put
their current manager and often even cow orkers down as references, due to the
sensitivity/privacy of the job seeking process.

3) If you've made extraordinary claims in your resume or the interview - those
will be checked probably both with your given references, and possibly with
random ex-colleagues the recruiter or hiring manager will discover from
LinkedIn, Googling you, or asking their own network of contacts to suggest
names of people who might have worked with you. This is lots more relevant the
more senior the role is - if you're going for a C level role, you should 100%
expect board members to be reaching out several levels deep in their networks
to find out more about you.

I'd suggest going for Senior SDE roles as your second job might trigger #3
there. While giving contact details for your direct reports will help - I'd
consider checking your LinkedIn and social media profiles, and your top page
or two of google search results, and ask yourself what the people revealed
_there_ will say about you if a recruiter calls up...

(I've seen this from all sides: I've had recruiters cold-call me to ask about
ex colleagues, I've had friends/acquaintances get in touch asking about people
they're considering hiring and if I know them or know any of the people
they've given as references, I've Google/LinkedIn stalked candidates I've
considered hiring, and I've asked my network of friends/acquaintances if they
know anything about people who've claimed to work with them or at places they
work...)

~~~
guacamoleSoda
Thanks for your detailed response! It helps a ton. I've been feeling a bit
neurotic because I don't have a large network to fall back on for references,
but really want to get out of my current job.

------
eggie5
Actually, I've never been asked for references by tech companies. I've
interviewed at most of the big ones in the last couple years. The only time
I've been asked was back when I worked in finance.

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ig1
Someone you report to on a day-to-day basis (i.e. team lead) is fine as are
managers at previous companies.

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dozzie
From the complete lack of information on your location I conclude that you
live in South Africa and you assume that everybody else live there. Am I
right?

~~~
guacamoleSoda
Bay Area, probably like a good majority of contributors here but, you're
right, I should add that info.

~~~
dozzie
Probably like the rest of the world is a quite big place, you know. I wouldn't
bet a beer on Bay Area being a majority here.

