
The Pirate Bay up again - bandwidth provided by Swedish Pirate Party - micaelwidell
http://thepiratebay.org/blog
======
stse
This is of course a political move. The Swedish general election is in four
months and the Pirate Party's greatest threat is not getting enough attention.
As the other political parties in Sweden doesn't really understand technology
and won't actively engage in these issues. In the EP election last year, two
unpopular laws had gone into effect the same year and also the Pirate Bay
trial had just been held months before the election.

This time around technology related legislature seem to have been postponed
and the continuation of the Pirate Bay trial has conveniently been placed just
weeks _after_ the election. If the Pirate Party's ISP now decides or get
forced to cut off the Pirate Bay from the Internet, they will also censor the
Pirate Party, which (of course) is a political party. Sparking a lot of
outrage and controversy, which previously has shown very effective for the
party.

~~~
jacquesm
I'm fine with that. If the other side can play politics then so can the pirate
party.

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tbrooks
Notice the easter egg in bold letters, when put together it says "assclowns ov
teh riaa."

~~~
madmaze
nothing better than publicly poking fun at the RIAA/MPAA's continuous failure
=)

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fnid2
I was searching for some legitimate software the other day and a link to the
pirate bay came up on google. I was shocked.

As a producer of software and content including movies and pics, I am also
shocked that websites like this find so much support from this community. I
believe producers of content should be able to reap rewards for that
production.

It takes time, energy, passion, dedication, and practice to create something
of value. These products are of value if someone is downloading them and
filling up hard drives.

The people supporting the copyright violations the pirate bay support, don't
also support piracy off the coast of Somalia or theft of hard drives to store
those songs. The argument is that bits aren't property.

But those bits are the mechanism that supports the creators of the content
that has improved their lives throughout the years. If you don't believe that
-- take all your lines of code, databases and photos and delete them. How much
will it cost you to replace them?

I know I am in the minority around here, but I am not a supporter of the
pirate bay. I acquire the content I consume legally and legitimately and in a
manner consistent with how the producers have agreed that content should be
consumed. Anything less would violate the golden rule. I don't want people
using the software I create without helping _me_ pay the bills.

~~~
JeanPierre
I think we've all heard the arguments against piracy, and we've all heard the
arguments for torrenting over and over.

The main reason people download/torrent copyrighted material is because that's
the simplest way to get it, and there's literally no risk to get caught.

In order to avoid downloading and torrenting, find a simpler way than
downloading and torrenting, use a monthly subscription, or a mix of both. This
works perfectly fine for World of Warcraft and Spotify, and they've taken
people by storm. I dare say Spotify has made music torrenting unneeded and a
thing of the past, because it's so great.

~~~
fnid2
I don't think "that's the simplest way to get it" is a valid argument. The
simplest way to get flowers is to pick them out of someone's flower bed, but
we don't advocate that.

For me, it's more philosophical. Consumers need to some self control. We are
consuming everything without conscience -- because that's the easiest way.
It's easy to eat fish, so the oceans are going to run out. It's easy to
consume oil, so the gulf is polluted. It's easy to bit torrent content so
people do. But it does cause problems. Some people don't want their content
consumed in that way.

To respond to some other commenters below, it doesn't matter if studies show
only the middle men are hurt, middlemen are important for the distribution of
content and much content wouldn't be known if it wasn't for the middlemen --
they need jobs too.

As for the argument that "people pay after they download it" -- that's simply
not true. I know tons of people who download thousands of movies and
redistribute them on limewire and never pay for a single one.

If you want to watch a movie and the only way to get it is to use netflix or
blockbuster (both middle men) then go there and get it. If you can't get it
there or you're too lazy to drive there or you don't subscribe to netflix,
then don't watch the movie! Do something productive with your time. Control
your desires to consume stuff you haven't supported.

~~~
hxa7241
> it's more philosophical ... We are consuming everything without conscience

The crucial difference is that, unlike most physical things, informational
copies are an infinite resource. The only essential moral action is to share
them freely. Whether that causes problems is entirely conditional on
particular economic systems.

It is indeed also true that supporting production is moral. But producing and
sharing are not negatively dependent. If you don't do one, it doesn't do any
good to then not do the other. They are mutually supportive: you should do
both, and doing either you indirectly support the other.

~~~
fnid2
1) Informational copies aren't infinite, they take server space, electricity,
and maintenance.

2) and more importantly, how do you overcome the hurdle that production itself
requires resource consumption? Stuff at the lower level of Maslow's hierarchy:
Food, Shelter?

Producing quality content requires investment. How is a producer of that
content to get a return on that investment if people don't pay for the product
after it is produced?

I agree that we should all produce and share, but not all sharers produce.
Just because you have the bits on your hard drive does not mean the product
those bits define are _yours_ to share. Those bits are not simply bits, they
are the definition of something that creates value. It takes risk to create
the order of ones and zeros and if that risk is not rewarded, then the
risk/reward ratio becomes too high and there is no incentive to take the risk
to create the product.

I know that many people create for the love of the game, but those creators
have to make money somehow. They have to have day jobs or something that
distracts them from the many hours it takes to create quality content. If they
could get paid for the content after it is produced, then they could spend
more time creating more quality content for us to consume.

There was a quote from Ayn Rand about money where she describes money as a
battery that stores labor so we can benefit from that labor over a longer time
than it takes to perform the labor. Well, those bits are just like that. Bits
are a battery that stores the labor required to create the order of bits.
Content production is the opposite of entropy and to defeat entropy, we must
take energy from outside the system. The artist in this metaphor is the closed
system -- the artist's brain is the system that creates the content. The
consumer is outside that system and must put energy into it in the form of
food so that artist can use that energy to create order from a disordered set
of random bits.

Money is that energy required to oppose entropy. Without a transfer of energy,
there is no way to create order. Without order, there is no content. It's just
white noise and consumers don't want that...

If consumers don't pay for the content, where will the energy to produce it
come from?

~~~
hxa7241
> How is a producer of that content to get a return on that investment if
> people don't pay for the product after it is produced?

That is the question! Now copyright is looking very inappropriate we need some
good answers. I expect it is a matter for evolution: try lots of things and
see which work best. There are already some incipient examples out there.

> _yours_

(With information, it can only mean acknowledgement -- 'ownership' doesn't
make sense.)

> those creators have to make money somehow.

Broadly, yes, just not by old copyright-oriented ways.

The point is seeing the two things separately. We need only pay for
production, not for copies. That is economically optimal, and more practically
fitted to current technological circumstances.

~~~
fnid2
If you aren't paying for the music, you aren't paying for the production. If
you were paying for the production, you'd pay what the artists' time was worth
to create it, the studio time to record it, the post production editing...

But you'd _never_ pay that much. That's why the artists/record labels/whoever
spreads out that cost over _all_ the copies of the of the recording. Then they
account for risk, some cash to reinvest, and profit.

When you buy a book, you aren't paying for production either. Nor when you buy
a piece of art. Or watch a movie.

All this arguing on behalf of the people who think stealing music is okay is
really immature. Everyone knows it is wrong and no one would want someone
taking their livelihood away from them -- yet plenty of consumers argue, "oh,
it's fine to 'pirate' music... because of yada yada"

Everyone knows it's not okay. It's not okay.

Look at the arguments you make:

    
    
      A) It's not stealing -- it's a copy
      B) Record labels deserve it
      C) Piracy is actually *good*!
      D) Everyone else is doing it!
      E) It's so easy!
    

Seriously! These are piracy proponents arguments! It's a pity really. Pathetic
that people of rational minds would stoop to such irrationality when it suits
their wants.

~~~
hxa7241
You sound like a corporate astro-turfer: you don't appear to have understood
anything I have said, and counter with non-arguments such as "is really
immature" and "everyone knows it is wrong. It is wrong".

Neither what I have said, nor the rather odd and hardly even oblique
caricature you offer of me, are irrational.

I suggest you actually learn something about copyright.

------
TerminalDummy
When I was younger I was a pirate for one reason and one reason alone. Lack of
funds. Now that I am older I take pride in supporting the developers and
content creators. However, without the internet and pirate downloads I never
would have gotten interested in graphic/website design or discovered so many
great genres of music and film - which then translated into sales later in my
life. I guess art and education tools should only be for the rich?

------
nixy
Where does it say that the Swedish Pirate Party are providing the bandwidth? I
can't find anything about that, maybe my Lolcat isn't what it should be.

~~~
cpach
Straight from the horse's mouth:
[http://www.piratpartiet.se/nyheter/piratpartiet_levererar_pi...](http://www.piratpartiet.se/nyheter/piratpartiet_levererar_pirate_bays_bandbredd)

~~~
micaelwidell
I didn't want to link to that one, as it is in swedish.

~~~
wizard_2
From google translate.

 _We got tired of Hollywood's cat and mouse game with the Pirate Bay and
ordered us to offer the bandwidth side, says Rick Falk Vinge, leader of the
Pirate Party. It is time to take the bull by the horns and stand up for what
we believe is a legitimate activity._

------
chime
Hmm. What does "assclowns ov teh riaa" mean? Is "ov" Swedish for "of"? I know
"teh" is just leetspeak for "the".

~~~
mmelin
It's not Swedish. I think it's just lolcat speak for "of".

~~~
chime
Thanks. Wasn't sure. I don't know why I was downvoted for asking a simple
question concerning the linked article.

~~~
puredemo
Because just say it out loud. "Ov" is pronounced "Of."

~~~
Qz
Or is "Of" pronounced "Ov"?

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tzs
When a country has enough people that think getting music and movies without
paying for them is the most important political issue (ahead of foreign
policy, the environment, poverty, world hunger, and so on), that's a country
that needs a war to knock some sense of perspective into people's heads.

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not_an_alien
Has it ever gone down? I remember people talking it was closed and stuff, but
I'd go there to test and it'd always be online. Did that just apply to some
servers or what?

~~~
Qz
It was nonresponsive for me for a while yesterday (checking in response to the
other post).

------
textfiles
As someone whose content is on The Pirate Bay, I must protest these unneeded
downtimes preventing people from downloading my movie (The BBS Documentary).

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agentultra
When will the suits get it? Even China can't censor the 'net. If people want
it, they will get it. Simple.

~~~
kingkilr
It's not a question of censoring the internet. It's a question of whether
piracy (copyright infringement) is illegal and unethical. The fact that we
can't stop murder except by draconian measures (outlawing picking up a rock
even...) doesn't somehow mean we shouldn't be opposed to murder.

~~~
snsr
" The fact that we can't stop murder except by draconian measures (outlawing
picking up a rock even...) doesn't somehow mean we shouldn't be opposed to
murder."

Murder is in no way comparable to copyright infringement, which is a civil
offense.

~~~
kingkilr
No, it's not. But the measures that would be necessary to actually stop it are
identical, as they are for just about anything: completely draconian laws.

------
ivenkys
Why can't the TPB folks actually write in proper English ? It might make other
folks take them seriously.

~~~
paulnelligan
because they're pirates ... why is it so necessary to be taken seriously all
the time?

~~~
jared314
There is a song in there, somewhere.

