
What does a Director of Engineering do? - shalotelli
https://www.hashtagcoder.dev/blog/director-of-engineering
======
lliamander
> I used to think hard work leads to promotion. This is because I didn't
> understand why different positions exist outside of a title change. Now I
> see things a bit differently. If an individual on my team is working hard,
> I'm going to keep them where they are because they're getting the job done.
> Rather, I'm looking to elevate my 10x engineer - not the one that's the
> doing their job well but the one thats mentoring those around them to do
> their job well too.

An excellent point. This misconception that hard work leads to promotion is
widespread, and management doesn't often do enough to dispel it (if they are
even aware of it themselves). I think an important step here is to identify
the concrete behaviors and competencies needed to advance. In the words of
Randall Koutnik: "What does it take to succeed at [your] company beyond 'hard
work'?"[0].

[0][https://rkoutnik.com/articles/Questions-to-ask-your-
intervie...](https://rkoutnik.com/articles/Questions-to-ask-your-
interviewer.html)

~~~
Traster
I'll tell you what amazes me: If you look at any reasonably large engineering
organisation they will likely have guidance published from HR stating what the
criteria are for different job roles, and they'll actually be pretty similar
across different organisations.

You might be a Senior Software Engineer at one place but called a Staff
engineer at another place, but they're broadly comparable, and the seniority
criteria show a very clear progression: the more senior you get the more
influence you are showing across the organisation, whether that means managing
larger projects, mentoring other staff, consulting with other teams on best
known practices, or influencing other parts of the company inter-discplinary
projects.

Almost every large organisation will have a neat table telling you exactly
what attributes you need to show. They all show that progression - more
influence on the organisation as a whole.

And yet every single review cycle there's always a portion of engineers who
think they deserve a promotion because their personal work was high quality.
It's like they haven't read the job spec of the job they're applying for. It's
amazing.

~~~
bluGill
What is more amazing is their managers who have figured out how to work the
system are not telling people that. Your job should be helping your people get
where they want to go so if they can't get there tell them why.

I've wasted years working hard and trying to gain influence only to realize
that the areas I was getting influence in didn't matter to anyone so I was
condemned to get good jobs but no promotion. It has been hard to let go and
find a path with real influence. Where I was going is one of those areas that
only seen if not done. Lesson learned though : the guy who created the bad
design requiring them to come in right before release and work a weekend is
rewarded above the guy who wrote good code that works...

~~~
nogabebop23
I tell my developers this repeatedly, in the form of "making yourself 10%
better is not as good as making everyone you work with 1% better".

A few get it and shift towards a "rising tide floats all boats" mentality, the
rest do nothing and are perfectly adequate, or agree with me then turn back to
solely focusing on self-improvement.

The kicker? That 1% universal imporvement is soooo much easier than 10% or
even 5% personal improvement. You can help your team become more effective
just by (1) commiting to the act of (2) giving a sh!t.

~~~
dchyrdvh
The 1% contribution to others is good for the manager, because he gets to take
credit for the entire team. The 10% self improvement is good for that
individual, because he can leverage that into a better paying role.

~~~
ebiester
It depends on where you are in your career. If you are a below average
developer, do like they say in the airplane and "put on your own mask before
assisting others." If you are an above average developer, you will be noticed
by being the person who helps others more than solving every problem.

At some point in your career, your influence by your own two hands reaches a
plateau. You are a senior engineer. How are they choosing the tech lead?

I can speak by experience that the tech lead is often not the most technically
proficient on the team. They are the one who helps others the most. They are
the one who talks with the most people beyond their team. If I am looking for
a lead, I am looking for the person who people look to for help.

~~~
dchyrdvh
I've been there and only learnt that this "wait to be chosen" attitude never
pays off. It's rewarded, but the reward is a pittance compared to what that
energy could buy.

My advise to myself 20yo would be: learn how to deal with people, learn how
organizations work, build capital and get onto the money side of things; but
don't let your ego get tricked into the shiny tech lead and manager titles as
those are only mirages of wealth.

~~~
_jal
If what you care about is money, why do tech at all? Sure, it pays well, but
not ibanker-well. The replacement-level investment banker is doing to make a
multiple of all but the best-compensated engineers.

~~~
dchyrdvh
It was an easy way to make some initial capital. I would've done that in the
banking sphere if I could.

------
nathanaldensr
The answer varies wildly based on the size of the company. At smaller
companies, they tend to oversee hiring, technical work, and act as managers,
but don't necessarily have budgetary authority. At larger companies, they tend
to have more authority and involvement in larger strategic efforts; they tend
to be "managers of managers."

~~~
seattle_spring
Absolutely this. There's a huge difference between a real Director of
Engineering at a FANG-size company versus a "Director of Engineering" who is
just some kid who decided to call their side-project a startup and give
themself a hugely inflated title.

~~~
dkarl
There are also FAANG-sized corporations that give director titles to
individual contributors because it's the only way to get them into a salary
band where they can be paid a competitive rate.

------
bojo
Good insights.

Small nitpick, I have no idea what the terms "EOS" and "L10 meetings" mean.

~~~
sunnyP
EOS = Entrepreneurial Operating System [https://www.eosworldwide.com/what-is-
eos](https://www.eosworldwide.com/what-is-eos)

L10 = Level 10 Meeting [https://www.eosworldwide.com/blog/what-the-heck-is-a-
level-1...](https://www.eosworldwide.com/blog/what-the-heck-is-a-
level-10-meeting)

~~~
ttymck
Unless I'm missing something, the "WHAT THE HECK IS A LEVEL 10 MEETING?" post
doesn't actually answer "what the heck is a level 10 meeting?".

~~~
barbecue_sauce
It looks like managerial consulting claptrap. Don't trust a methodology with
an ® next to its name and an accompanying book series.

~~~
shalotelli
haha! once you get through the nonsense the concepts are actually really
useful

~~~
folkhack
> once you get through the nonsense

I'm not going to trudge through clear marketing/sales copy to get down to a
few common-sense nuggets of information. Stuff like this is clearly a sales
pitch for books/courses/etc vs. any sort of real-world education around
management and entrepreneurship.

Typically when it gets implemented in an org it's just a cargo cult "Simon
Says" game that'll get ya fired if you don't drink the koolaid.

------
bobbytherobot
I don't see "retention" of talent in here but "recruiting" is. Is your team
rapidly growing, or do you have high turnover? Recuriting is a costly activity
compared to retention.

~~~
shalotelli
Really good observation. I think retention has become a side effect of
happiness, culture and efficiency. We've had low turnover so it really didn't
cross my mind because I'm not actively trying to convince people to stay. My
takeaway here though is to not take people for granted. Although we have
regular 1-1s, sometimes people don't talk about the little things that chip
away at them and become big unless they're explicitly asked.

------
emmanueloga_
> My personal mission is to create a world class engineering team that create
> world class products. This starts from the individuals

How do people in positions like this manage to keep track of individuals when
the numbers could be in the lower tens to hundreds? Perhaps is one of the
traits that makes one a good director? It seems like something like [1] but
for tracking office relationships could be a good idea.

OTOH, it maybe that people that matter the most naturally flow to the top of
the director line of sight, or that they are making a bigger effort for that
to happen :-).

1: [https://www.monicahq.com/](https://www.monicahq.com/)

------
lasermike026
Foster teamwork and communication. Fix or help fix problems as they happen.
Engage teams to plan and deliver. Deliver on organizational responsibilities,
objectives, and goals. Listen then speak.

------
blanchoir
Titles, titles, titles... 90% of companies don't need 80% of the titles they
use. We like to mimic the giants and the unicorns but the reality is those
positions overlap so much in smaller / medium sized startups where one guy is
doing the job of 2. We need to grow our organizations and the culture
strategically and only when necessary. This will also save people a ton of
money.

------
john4532452
> "If I have strong executors but am lacking in people leaders, I bring in
> someone who has that focus"

I don't understand how people who can not execute and lack technical expertise
will be a better fit for engineering leadership than those with strong
technical skills ?

------
yibg
Doesn’t most of this also describes an engineering manager? What’s the
distinguishing role of a director vs a manager?

~~~
shostack
In many orgs a director level role manages managers. And there is definitely a
different skillset as it goes beyond management into leadership.

~~~
yibg
Right, but the article doesn't really talk about that aspect of the role. So
to me it seems to just describe the role of a manager and part of the role of
a director.

------
rejschaap
Nice write-up, but it feels like I'm missing some important parts of the
picture. The company seems to have a lot of layers for its size. How big is
the company and how is it organized? What does this person consider to be
their team and their peers? How many direct and indirect reports do they have?

------
stuff4ben
I really enjoyed this post, thanks for the writeup! Wondering if I can
shoehorn some of these concepts (EOS, L10) into my dev team which is a part of
a large enterprise?

~~~
shalotelli
It fits really well into agile because they deal with different aspects. For
me it's just a way to empower my team and keep them unblocked to do what they
need to do. It starts with trust and goes from there. If you know your team,
you trust them and they're the right people in the right seats you know you're
heading in the right direction. We've created a culture where they manage me
(meaning they tell me what they need from me not the other way around) and
they're accountable to each other not to me (if the DBA needs time off, he
makes sure his team mates have what they need - it doesn't effect me except
for tracking outputs and if I'm setting them up with what they need then this
is already handled anyway). If you use some of these concepts properly success
will become a side effect of having an efficient and happy team.

------
encoderer
Great write up on a vaguely understood job.

I would add, at a larger company, the director also takes on a lot of the
burden of organizational navigation/representation.

------
reesef
Great piece explaining a poorly understood role. What tool did you use to
build and export an SVG mind map?

~~~
shalotelli
It’s a cool tool called markmap
[https://github.com/dundalek/markmap](https://github.com/dundalek/markmap)

~~~
reesef
Thanks!

------
atlgator
Posts like this are why I love HN.

------
musicale
TL;DR: not much.

------
birdyrooster
> Owneship

Director of Engineering does not use spell check

~~~
d3ad1ysp0rk
Why the snark?

~~~
jackcodes
Because what would hackernews really be if not for constant superiority
complex in the comment section

~~~
birdyrooster
Guilty as charged

