
When Introverts Act Like Extraverts (and Vice Versa) - laurex
https://www.learningandthebrain.com/blog/when-introverts-act-like-extraverts-and-vice-versa/
======
maverick2007
One thing I don't see mentioned very much is that introversion/extroversion is
a very different axis from shyness/outgoingness. I feel like these two axes
get conflated really often (like in this article) but they really are two
different things. I'm an introvert, I get energy being alone, but when I need
to I can be very outgoing and make small talk and all of the things that
introverts supposedly hate. I just need time to recharge by myself afterwards.
On the other hand I've had friends that got energy from others but tended to
be a wallflower (for lack of a better term) when they were around others. I
hope people recognize it's more subtle of a distinction than just
introvert/extrovert and don't let their self chosen label define them.

~~~
wgerard
> I just need time to recharge by myself afterwards

Yes!

The way I've started explaining this to people is it's like going to the gym:
I like going to the gym. I make sure to go to the gym regularly. But I can't
spend all day at the gym, and if I spend many hours at the gym I'm going to be
very sore and tired and need a day or two off.

~~~
flatline
Good analogy, and I find it slightly ironic, because the introvert will go to
the gym, focus for an hour, and be tired out, while the extrovert will go to
the gym, talk to people half the time, and not put in nearly as heavy a
workout...

------
20years
Trying to force introverts into pro-longed extroversion is exhausting. It is
not how we are built. I think oftentimes people view introverts as anti-
social, which is not always the case. We are just differently social.

Instead of trying to force introverts to be more like extroverts, encourage
them to share their skills/talents in a positive way. This is where you will
see us shine and you might even forget that we are introverts.

Throwing us into a party with 100 strangers and expecting us to thrive, is not
gonna do it. Asking us to teach a large group of strangers something valuable
or lead a project that we know a lot about will energize us like nothing else.
This is how we connect with people and how we make our mark in society.

A lot of introverts are quiet leaders and have a way of making a huge impact
in ways that extroverts just don't understand. Don't get me wrong, I love the
extroverts in my life, but I don't want to be like them :)

~~~
tehlike
I think I agree with you. I am an introvert, but have vast variety of interest
in science, technology, startups etc. I don't like at all to do small talk
with friends, i get bored and tired really fast, unless the topic hits one of
these areas. I liked to socialize on forums on programming, and made a bunch
of friends sincr when i was in middle school or high school that way. I gave a
bunch of talks and raised enthusiasm on some programming concepts back in the
day. Everything else was too boring.

~~~
anyfoo
I'm an extrovert, and I am also interested in "science" and "technology" (but
not startups). One of my primary hobbies is very math-heavy, and involves
hours and sometimes days of intense focus. I also gave talks in the past, e.g.
on functional programming.

The point is, I have no idea how any of this is related to being introvert or
extrovert (and was wondering the same in the post you replied to).

People can shut themselves into their room with only oscilloscopes and MATLAB
as company on one weekend, and meet up with friends on the next one.

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twerkinggumby
More inane pseudoscience about the moronic introvert/extrovert dichotomy. A
two week study with 130 students and we’re supposed to learn something? Change
our behavior? This is just astrology for people who love Ted talks.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _the moronic introvert /extrovert dichotomy_

Why is that dichotomy moronic?

~~~
tokai
There is no scientific foundation for it. Jung dreamt it up with an extremely
literary approach. Then the swindlers Briggs and Myers popularised it with
their 20th century astrology.

~~~
thaumasiotes
The introversion-extraversion personality axis is the only part of the MBTI
that modern psychometrics accepts basically without reservation. It lives on
as the introversion-extraversion factor of the Big 5 Personality Model.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits)

I find it interesting that the rest of the MBTI is so thoroughly rejected --
in particular, I read in work that accepts the MBTI (uh-oh, red flag!) that
males tend to split 75% T / 25% F and females do the reverse, 75% F / 25% T.

It seems to me that this very large difference in responses should be
sufficient to show that the T / F axis is capturing _something_. If the T / F
distinction were meaningless, it wouldn't be able to predict anything, but it
clearly can predict the respondent's sex.

~~~
tokai
It is capturing something right. But it is flatting down a much more complex
reality.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indicator#Correlates)

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rhizome
This reads like a jumble of fragmented maybes.

The first thing that bugs me is the casual spelling of "extravert," where
"extrovert" is the common spelling unless you're referring specifically to the
Jungian interpretation of the trait(s).

The second thing that bugs me is the "acts like" construction. The students in
the experiment were indeed acting when they explicitly adopted traits they
don't usually express for a period of time, but to also use "acting"
throughout the rest of the essay as a fundamental organizing principle is to
assume a person's motivations absent evidence, vs. sometihng like "appears
to," which maintains the relationship that a person's motivations are a matter
of interpretation by the observer.

He gives a nod to neuroplasticity toward the end, which...fine, but it appears
to be a euphemism for "nobody is really anything" when balanced against the
rest of the text.

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jasode
I'm an introvert and this writer (though well-intentioned) completely
misunderstands what introversion _is_.

A sample of his misleading analysis:

 _> , this framework rests on the unspoken assumption that introverts and
extroverts remain constant in their identities. [...] What if that weren’t
true? What if we could deliberately act more one way other the other?_

 _> That is: am I promoting extraversion simply because I’m an extravert? The
answer is: I am a little bit of both. [...] I think we’re all a bit of both._

No, introversion is _not_ how one voluntarily acts in solitude for a little
while and if that same person is later eating lunch with friends, he does
_not_ become an extrovert.

And no, you can't be "a little bit of both".

The way I like to explain introversion vs extroversion is it's an underlying
personality trait _that doesn 't change_ such as being left-handed or right-
handed. When we say we're "right-handed", that "right-handedness" trait
doesn't go away just because we play the low bass notes on the piano with the
left hand, or flick the turn signal levers of the car steering with our left
hand. Just because right-handed people use their left hands some of the time
for many tasks doesn't mean they are a "little bit of both". Our category of
"left-handed" vs "right-handed" is specifically labeling the _underlying
tendency_ of which limb is favored and not about the cherry-picked tasks that
use the opposite limb.

I've been to hundreds of parties and yes I do hang out with friends from time
to time. I'm still an introvert. I'm not a little bit of both. The author's
article does more harm than good in understanding what true introversion
actually is.

~~~
caseysoftware
> _And no, you can 't be "a little bit of both"._

This is absolutely untrue.

Extroversion - Introversion is a spectrum and people can exist anywhere along
it.

From personal experience, I am an introvert. I recharge from time alone or
with a very small group of good, close friends and colleagues. Regardless, I
was developer evangelist #3 for Twilio (circa 2011-2013) covering literally
all of North America at some point where a major part of my job was to speak
in front of large groups regularly (spoke at 15+ confs/year, no clue how many
user groups) and spend every spare moment trying to understand every person,
project, and community I came across. I can thrive and get recharged (much
more slowly!) from that too. I've continued similar things at Okta for the
last 3 years.

After most of those trips - I found 3 days is my threshold - yes, I need to
stop and be back among that small group/alone to recharge. But those quiet
times alone are when I came up with the best solutions to the ugliest problems
and helped me do my job.. and many others do their own better.

Like anything, it's a balance.. but it's not one that most people can adjust
without significant work.

~~~
jasode
_> , it's a balance.. but it's not one that most people can adjust without
significant work._

Instead of engaging your other points, let me focus on that one I quoted. Does
"significant work" mean you agree with the author's idea that we can change
our introversion?

If so, you're using the term very differently from me and it's not productive
for us to even debate it because we're not even on the same page of what
introversion _is_. Because I'm saying this: if I go to another social
function, and even if I _enjoy_ that social function, that does _not_ make me
"less introverted" and I have not become "more balanced".

~~~
caseysoftware
Yes, I'm using it as the author did, not as you've defined.

Introvert vs Extrovert is where you draw your energy or what recharges you,
_not_ what you enjoy though those things often overlap.

It's not a switch, it's a slider. People operate at different points along it
and can even shift or operate within a range depending on a variety of things.

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randomsearch
What’s the supporting scientific evidence for the idea of an introversion-
extroversion personality trait?

~~~
0xcde4c3db
Extraversion is one of the "Big Five" personality traits [1]. As far as I
understand it, this means that it's been verified that it empirically exists
as an independent-ish variable based on statistical analysis, but it's also
not based on any underlying psychological or neurological model that's been
independently validated. Also, the descriptions of this variable in Big Five
literature don't always match popular ideas about what the term means.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits)

~~~
randomsearch
That covers about all I’ve heard too. Wonder how solid / convincing /
replicable that really is.

------
Invictus0
I don't think there is really anything substantive in this article, but if
there is one thing we can learn from it, it's that we need to be much more
clear what we're talking about when we use the words introvert and extrovert.
I prefer the definition that introverts gain energy from being alone, and
extroverts gain energy from being with others. People often make the mistake
of coupling other things to this: shyness and introversion tend to be
associated, and it leads to people saying things like "I'm an introvert there
I can't (it's impossible) be a good socializer". The fact that
introversion/extroversion is a spectrum certainly doesn't do us any favors
either.

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sn41
I guess one test of introversion is whether being in a group is invigorating
or tiring. I am tired after interacting with most groups except with my
closest friends.

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clairity
this seems pretty straightforward. "introvert" and "extrovert" are grammatical
traps that lead to fallacious reasoning, because these are not things that we
_are_.

introversion and extroversion are just groupings of behaviors we each
_exhibit_ based on social context. sure, some people tend to skew one way or
another statistically, but it's not an intinsic attribute.

(it's more interesting to examine the specific situations in which one
exhibits one or the other set of behaviors.)

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mnd999
The author references Quiet, which is a great read but it doesn’t seem like
they understood it at all.

------
Insanity
Coincidentally I started reading 'Quiet' this week. Really recommend it,
interesting book!

------
foobar_
Humans are not that different from animals but surprisingly show mixed
behaviours, unlike other animal species. Are we even one species and not many
subspecies pretending to be one?

A cooperator engages prey both when it is alone or with a companion. Most
common behaviour of extroverts.

A cheater only engages when it is the first to find prey, but lets another
individual make the kill if it arrives second. The author of the article in
this case. Plenty of extrovert cheaters too pretend to read books by citing
cliff notes. Ambiverts I suppose.

A scavenger and a solitary hunter never hunts and waits for another individual
to make a kill. A solitary avoids others and always hunts alone. Dangerous
l33t hackers on the loose.

Taken from [https://doi.org/10.1086/284844](https://doi.org/10.1086/284844)

