
Four in 10 Americans don't see retirement ever happening - onetimemanytime
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/retirement-four-in-10-americans-don-t-see-it-ever-happening-1.1269777
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drcross
I don't mean to sound mean but it seems to me as a European that Americans
value comfort and convenience over being prudent and thrifty. I hear stories
from people on massive salaries yet struggling to make ends meet due to a
lifestyle of extravagant food choices, car purchases and other material junk
which is not necessary. The saving grace of all of this is the recent trend on
the topic of FIRE- people who realise they don't need all that junk and prefer
financial freedom over a life of servitude.

~~~
notacoward
As an American, I'd say your statements have a grain of truth to them but
you're probably not looking at the right demographic. The people with "massive
salaries" barely make a dent in those statistics. Those numbers come from
people in the middle and working class. I have a lot of sympathy for them,
having been there myself a long time ago. It might not be their fault that
their means are more limited, and being poor shouldn't have to mean a lifetime
of unceasing self-denial. I don't begrudge anyone their occasional moment of
(relative) luxury. On the other hand, going into massive persistent credit-
card debt for the sake of having the latest phone or TV is just _crazy_ and
it's a common syndrome. There's something very sick about a society that
pushes that lifestyle on people who never got a good enough education to
realize that there are better alternatives. It's predatory. So your criticism
(if it was even that) is justified, but IMO misses the real point of _how we
came to be that way_.

~~~
cylinder
Nah it's definitely a thing. Generalisations are borne out of truth. Just look
at all the waste ... Living far from work, driving alone in an Escalade or
huge pickup 30 miles to work, cooling entire houses to 18C etc. It's in your
face everywhere you look. Even the toilets are wasteful!

~~~
notacoward
I'm not saying those things don't happen. I'm just saying they're the tip of
the iceberg. The part below the waterline - the part that does the real damage
- is the vastly greater numbers of middle-class and poor people, and the
reasons why they behave the way they do. The glittery ice on top barely
matters. The real problems are the advertising and finance industries which
were way oversized since long before tech came along, an educational system
that leaves most people vulnerable to their manipulation, and politicians who
make the whole situation worse with their misguided (or venal) policy making.
Maybe callous condescension makes some people feel better about themselves,
but it's really not very helpful.

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finaliteration
I’m one of the four, unfortunately. I fully expect to be working until I die
or at the very least until I am physically and/or mentally unable. I’m
starting to resign myself to that future and can only hope I continue to enjoy
the work that I do.

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temp129038
Personally I think the younger generation will rethink the entire notion of
what retirement is. The stereotype of counting the days til 65 and then all of
a sudden you’re playing golf every day for the rest of your life is just
comical.

~~~
bobthepanda
That version of retirement is extremely modern (postwar-Great Society ish). A
return to working life or poverty for seniors would be a return to form.

Until Social Security and Medicare happened most seniors lived in abject
poverty. [https://www.nasi.org/discuss/2015/08/social-
security%E2%80%9...](https://www.nasi.org/discuss/2015/08/social-
security%E2%80%99s-past-present-future)

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madengr
The majority of the remaining 6/10 have inadequate retirement savings. I
believe the average 401k balance of 45-50 YO is between $96k to $108k.

~~~
wutbrodo
Not disagreeing with you, but I don't actually know the answer to this
question: what's the proportion of retirement savings that's in a 401k? I'd
expect that someone with 108k in a 401k has a pretty substantial amount
outside of it too, right?

~~~
madengr
Probably not. 45-50 YO are still to young to have pensions. The fact of having
a 401k pretty much means no pension. Everyone I know with a traditional
pension is 60+.

I’m lucky to come in on the tail end with a 401k and employer funded annuity,
but any hires at my employer in the 21st century just have a 401k.

~~~
wutbrodo
Right, I didn't assume pensions (tbh I'm young enough that defined-benefit
pensions sound like a strange anachronism to me). I wasn't asking about
retirement flows but rather retirement stock: I would have imagined that
someone with that level of 401k savings would also have retirement savings
that didn't live in a tax-advantaged account. My parents never had enough
money to put in their 401k, and I've always maxed it out, so I don't have a
good model of how partial-contribution decisions are made, but I would've
thought that some level of liquid savings would (on average) come before
locking up money in a 401k

~~~
jogjayr
> I would've thought that some level of liquid savings would (on average) come
> before locking up money in a 401k

This is correct. But most personal finance wisdom advises keeping no more than
6 months - 1 year of expenses in liquid savings. After that, funding your 401k
to get the maximum company match, then your IRA and Roth IRA, and maxing out
401k, is preferred. If there's still money left over after that, it goes into
post-tax investments.

~~~
madengr
Problem is you can’t fund a 401k and traditional IRA at the same time. Then
you can’t fund a Roth IRA if you make too much (and it’s only $3k/year
anyway). The government has rigged it so they are getting a cut of your
retirement savings, one way or the other.

~~~
jogjayr
You can fund a traditional IRA and 401k up to a certain MAGI.[2] If your
spouse doesn't work, or their work doesn't offer a 401k, you can fund a
traditional IRA for them as well. Roth IRA is $5.5k/year.[0] If your 401k plan
allows in-plan conversions you can also do mega backdoor Roth IRA
contributions up to something like $37k. [1]

0\. [https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/roth-ira-
contribut...](https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/roth-ira-contribution-
limits/)

1\. [https://thecollegeinvestor.com/17561/understanding-the-
mega-...](https://thecollegeinvestor.com/17561/understanding-the-mega-
backdoor-roth-ira/)

2\. [https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/money-
finance/retirement/c...](https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/money-
finance/retirement/can-you-contribute-to-a-401k-and-an-ira-in-the-same-year)

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pvinis
But only one in 2 numbers in the title were in number form.

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jc01480
Frankly, the American Dream of retirement and ‘golden years’ has long passed.
The 2008 crisis wiped out everything people I know had for retirement. I’d
rather save my cash than put it into another person’s hands hoping for modest
interest returns at the risk of knowing we’re just around the corner from
another 2008-like crisis. I’m working to make something for my wife after I’m
gone. I’d be a horrible retiree anyway. Still to much of a kid at heart.

~~~
madengr
My 401k is now worth about 5x what it was in 2008, mostly due to compounding,
which is why I don’t understand “people losing everything”. They would of had
to sell it all at the bottom of the market.

~~~
thekyle
> They would of had to sell it all at the bottom of the market.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Unfortunately many people don't have the stomach
for the market and end up selling at the worst possible time trying to avoid
additional losses.

After all, if everyone was totally rational and held through downturns then
market crashes would largely be eliminated.

