

Amnesty Int'l: Don't Call Female Genital Mutilation "Barbaric" - ishener
http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/female-genital-mutilation-barbaric

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redwood
It's not about censorship so much as what leads to real change on the ground
versus what leads to riled up westerners. If we want them to change we need to
lend them a hand. This is an especially complex issue... women become women in
these societies, by joining the other women, in this 'rite'. We need to
understand them, then help them.

~~~
adaml_623
This is indeed a really complex issue because everyone involved in this
practice believes it is the correct thing to do. And what's more 50% of the
people involved have had it done to them in the past.

To come out point blank and say this is barbaric is to tell 50% of these
people that they have been unnecessarily mutilated by their mothers and
grandmothers. And some of them will have done it to their daughters. It is
human nature that they would deny what you are saying rather than accepting
the part they have played and the harm that has been done them.

I and most westerners think this is barbaric but if you were trying to stop
people from doing this you might consider telling them that it's been
scientifically proven that it's unnecessary and could have a risk of
complications. And I imagine this is why Amnesty chooses their language the
way they do.

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silentmars
Abusive. Barbaric. Evil. Wrong.

These are all words I feel confident in saying are accurate when applied to
coerced female genital mutilation. While I appreciate Amnesty International's
position - it's obviously impolitic to call someone these things while sitting
at the table having a dialog - it's inappropriate to sacrifice our own moral
clarity everywhere else.

~~~
illuminate
"it's inappropriate to sacrifice our own moral clarity everywhere else"

Sometimes pride interferes with the ability to do good.

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logn
'Barbaric' stems from a group of people seeing foreigners at their state wall
and hearing them as speaking like 'ba ba ba baba baa ba' so they called them
barbarians. I can understand Amnesty wanting to avoid being linked with
calling people barbarians.

~~~
vmind
If you're going to use etymology as a reason to censor words, then I hope you
never use the word 'bad'.

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logn
Interesting. Had to google it: <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bad>

'Bad' is a pretty fundamental word in our language not easily removed.
'Barbaric' is different. We also don't sling around 'gay', 'retard', and
'ching chong'.

~~~
omonra
We don't call Asian homosexual mentally-challenged 'retarded ching chong fag'
because

a) those qualities are something a person is born with b) they do not cause
grievous harm to others

Meanwhile certain actions (such as practice of FGM) are both done by choice
and cause harm to innocent victims. Which is why it is our right to call them
barbaric.

Is there _any_ human activity that you would not call barbaric - cannibalism?
Slavery?

~~~
logn
That's not quite the same thing. A better comparison would be calling FGM
'retarded'. A more apt comparison would be, say, that sex slavery is so
'gringo' (although gringo doesn't really have a negative definition so it's
not the best analogy).

Anyhow, I don't truly care one way or another. I'm just saying I see where
Amnesty is coming from. Generally I don't modify my language until there's a
group specifically offended. That might not even be the case here and I might
not mind offending FGM practitioners. But Amnesty is not trying to dehumanize
people, because doing so in general leads to worse treatment of people.

~~~
omonra
I think your mistake is to suppose that we use the adjective 'barbaric' to
somehow demean or dehumanize its practitioners. Ie - because they are
black/brown/muslim that we allow ourselves to use this language.

That's 100% wrong (and is well addressed in the OP). Barbaric refers to the
_act itself_. If Hungarians or Swedes decide to chop their girls' labia off, I
will call that barbaric. And if it offends someone - I don't give a flying
fuck. Just like we do not care if slave-owners are offended because we
consider their practice barbaric.

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azundo
If there were a better balance of stories in the media then this would be much
less of an issue. In the west most of stories about the rest focus on the
"barbaric" aspects. FGM, despotic dictators, Islamic extremists. If there was
an equal representation of all of the kind, loving Muslims working for peace,
and all of the compassionate rural mothers and grandmothers that make up the
majority of Africans then people would be less sensitive on these issues. It's
not about judging individual practices, it's about our subconscious
application of those values to a much broader set of people than what is true
or just.

I don't think that censorship is the right word. But for every time you write
about FGM, find a story about an inspiring African grandmother and write about
that as well.

~~~
booruguru
> I don't think that censorship is the right word. But for every time you
> write about FGM, find a story about an inspiring African grandmother and
> write about that as well.

Oh, give me a break! Try writing posting that bullshit the next time someone
writes about American corruption.

FYI: I'm a bleeding-heart liberal.

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russelluresti
The most poignant aspect of the article is when they talk about words sounding
judgemental. This was something that was stressed in my Sociology course - how
practices and beliefs of other cultures should be observed but not judged,
because those practices "work for them".

Like the author, I agree that this shouldn't be the case. There are specific
things groups like Amnesty International are trying to change - and if you're
trying to change those things then you've already passed judgement on them.

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duaneb
"barbarian" is a highly pejorative term and should never be use outside of
demagoguery.

~~~
illuminate
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Jones_Barbarians> makes a compelling
argument that the Romans slurs on the "barbarians" were grounded in their lack
of Roman custom and not based on the qualities we associate with "savages".

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withoutthis
"Female Body Retouching"

