
Telegram removed from the App Store for 'inappropriate content' - wafflesraccoon
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/1/16958990/telegram-apple-app-store-removal-inappropriate-content
======
igloofoo
There may be political motive to this.

Why is Telegram X issued by "Telegram Messenger LLP" while the original
Telegram is issued by "Telegram LLC"?

Telegram LLC, which issues the original Telegram app on the App Store has been
undergoing litigation with regards to its ownership. It is based out of Russia
and a company called UCP with Krelim ties who 'bought' VKontakte has been
suing Durov for full Telegram ownership pursuant to VKontakte 'purchase'.

Telegram Messenger LLP however is based in London and seemingly wholly owned
by Durov crew. In 2014, Telegram Messenger LLP launched Telegram HD, a
separate app from Telegram-LLC-issued-Telegram. Now it is launching Telegram X
, another separate app (which was until very recently Challegram, an open
source Telegram client, winner of Telegram contest, and purchased by Durov) .

Draw your own conclusions.

EDITED for clarity and details

[https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/the-telegram-lawsuits-
ex...](https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/the-telegram-lawsuits-explained-
pavel-durov-58989)

[http://www.ewdn.com/2014/07/29/pavel-durov-has-cloned-
telegr...](http://www.ewdn.com/2014/07/29/pavel-durov-has-cloned-telegram/)

[https://rusletter.com/articles/ucp_requires_to_recognize_tel...](https://rusletter.com/articles/ucp_requires_to_recognize_telegram_as_the_property_of_vkontakte)

[http://www.frandroid.com/android/applications/securite-
appli...](http://www.frandroid.com/android/applications/securite-
applications/484643_telegram-fait-lacquisition-de-challegram-et-le-renomme-en-
telegram-x)

~~~
debt
Apple would be held liable if someone uses Telegram to coordinate a terrorist
attack or if it's used for human trafficking or whatever highly illegal
activity it could be used for. Potentially both in the court of law and the
court of public opinion; the latter Apple has no control over.

It's just not worth it financially for Apple to assume that liability.

~~~
bovermyer
So, to carry your argument to a slightly (but only slightly) more extreme
version, doesn't that mean that postal mail could be held liable if someone
coordinated a terrorist attack by letter?

Think about what you're suggesting.

------
mcguire
" _Telegram has risen in popularity thanks to its focus on advanced security
features and the ability to hold secret conversations with end-to-end
encryption. ... Telegram was forced to create a team of moderators in
Indonesia to remove “terrorist-related content” after the Indonesian
government threatened to ban the messaging app._ "

Wait, how does that work?

~~~
maxerickson
The secure chats are opt in. The normal mode shares everything with the
server.

~~~
dbrgn
This is probably mostly about the public channels, not regular group chats.

~~~
marksomnian
Correct. Moderators only intervene in public groups and channels, chats are
exempt and secret chats are impossible to be moderated.

------
goda90
It's back on there.
[https://twitter.com/durov/status/959094104822034434](https://twitter.com/durov/status/959094104822034434)

------
Animats
Because it allows users to _send_ inappropriate content?

What next, automatic voice censorship? That's technically feasible now.

~~~
morganvachon
It may have been triggered by one of the sets of "stickers" available as
alternatives to emoji. I've browsed through them and while they all seem PG-13
or tamer to me, I can see how someone with sensitivity towards suggestive
cartoons would be offended. There are a few with female cartoons showing
cleavage, and at least one that is obviously targeted at furries.

~~~
sli
Is there something inherently wrong with sticker packs of animal characters or
is this the standard internet conflation of furry content and characters
(which would include cartoon characters you likely grew up watching) with
specifically furry porn? Telegram promotes _a lot_ of sticker packs featuring
an animal character or multiple animal characters, and well as fairly risque
(to some) packs without animals.

~~~
morganvachon
I never said anything was wrong with pictures of animals and I don't think I'm
conflating anything. I was referring to the risque pictures of
anthropomorphised animals I've seen promoted there, which to me (as a non-
furry, so maybe I'm wrong) seems to be targeted at that demographic.
Specifically, I've seen two sets in the trending section that have "sexy"
cartoon rabbits and foxes with cleavage and other traditionally sexualized
human-like features.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with it, to each their own. I was just
offering a thought about why Apple might censor the app.

------
pentae
Ahh the app store. It's just like the internet, except the websites are mini
apps, and a mega corporation gets to control whats on it. And takes 30% of
everything you make. Brilliant.

~~~
danpalmer
Ahh the App Store. It's just like the Play Store, except no viruses, far fewer
scam apps, and there's a legitimate and thriving market for paid apps.

~~~
alex_hitchins
This is a big plus for me. A vetted walled garden where I can give things a
try without much fear of nasties is a big plus.

~~~
ufo
The problem isn't that the vetted app store exists. It is that the vetted app
store controlled by the device manufacturer is the only way you are allowed to
install applications

~~~
addicted
iPhone users (like myself) need to look no further than the Mac to see what a
better alternative might be. The Mac only allows App Store or signed apps to
be installed by default. However this setting can be toggled to allow any apps
for those who need that. You can also toggle it to allow only vetted App Store
apps if that’s what you prefer.

Apple could keep the default to what it is on the iPhone right now, but should
at least allow signed apps from other stores as a non-default option, even if
they don’t allow unsigned apps at all.

~~~
ApolloFortyNine
And Android has done it that way from Day 1.

------
thanatropism
Every social network has a "weird" subset. "Weird facebook" is circularly-
referencing visual memes. Weird Telegram is people who mix their Deleuze and
Bataille and come up with something like the Andy Kaufmann version of
witchcraft mysticism.

I mean, it's awesome.

~~~
Infernal
I've never tried/installed Telegram but thought it was just a messaging app -
not a social network. Now I'm /almost/ curious enough to try it.... but I
can't install it now.

~~~
eitland
Many use it for many-to-many family chat:

Pictures from birthdays and everyday life to aunts/uncles and grandparents
etc.

Many also use it for social/professional groups (again many-to-many) where it
offers simplicity but also includes moderation features in "supergroups" that
can have up to 100 000 users.

Lately I've also joined a few channels. Channels are one-to-many (or rather:
one or a few-to-many)

As for why Telegram it is super easy to use, it seems well aligned with my
interests in that it's owner already lost his previous company to authorities
and seems obsessed with preventing that from happening again.

That said: if your life or professional life depends on strong crypto I'd
think twice or more as certain bright and leading cryptographers seems to
distrust/hate it.

(Anyone who needs that should think carefully anyways but Signal seems to be a
good option that is also aligned with the users interests.

WhatsApp is often recommended as well and they also seem to have solid crypto
but I actively avoid them as they've broken too many promises already and also
has a owner that is not aligned with my interests.)

------
kragen
Any open communications network will have inappropriate content, more or less
by definition — if not immediately, then once it grows to have a lot of users.

------
nailer
From the article:

> Telegram has risen in popularity thanks to its focus on advanced security
> features and the ability to hold secret conversations with end-to-end
> encryption.

Isn't this wrong? I thought Telegram was famous for decrypting messages in
transit.

~~~
theon144
Nah; their biggest security blunder is: a) The secure chats are opt-in b)
Their (own) protocol hasn't been audited yet.

But it's a still valuable privacy-oriented app.

~~~
vesak
c) Group chats cannot be secured

------
shard972
Related?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16280713](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16280713)

------
lixtra
Pump and dump in Telegram groups was recently discussed here
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16252063](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16252063)

------
ohiovr
Isn't LibreTaxi based on telegram? My brother expressed an interest in making
his own one man cab company and i mentioned alternatives to uber and lyft and
one of them was libretaxi. I had no knowledge of what it did or how it worked
but we were looking at it literally just the other day and now it is gone. My
brother can't use lyft because he doesn't have a good enough car for them and
uber doesn't cater to our small town. So scrach libretaxi off too.

------
mahemm
Following all of the negative press Signal has gotten recently, I feel it's
unethical to let a Telegram post pass without a reminder that they don't even
bother to encrypt group chats, and that there is still no proof whatsoever
that their protocol is secure.

~~~
verytrivial
> Following all of the negative press Signal has gotten about security flaws

Sorry, what? Can you show me where _Signal_ has been implicated in flaws?
There are some stories about security agencies bypassing Signal, but that is
true on any hardware platform you didn't wire-wrap yourself.

~~~
mahemm
I worded that poorly and have edited the OP to reflect that.

I was referring to the recently re-discovered paper about group chats (e.g.
[https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2018/01/11/whatsapp-
signal-g...](https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2018/01/11/whatsapp-signal-group-
chats/) paper here:
[https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/713.pdf](https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/713.pdf))

~~~
Forbo
> “The good news is that in Signal the attack is very difficult to execute,”
> Green noted. “The reason is that in order to add someone to your group, I
> need to know the group ID. Since the group ID is a random 128-bit number
> (and is never revealed to non-group-members or even the server) that pretty
> much blocks the attack. The main exception to this is former group members,
> who already know the group ID — and can now add themselves back to the group
> with impunity.”

Sounds like making a mountain out of a molehill.

~~~
mahemm
It absolutely is! Which is why I felt like it was important to bring more
attention to the much lesser security stance of others in the space.

------
webninja
I still see the original Telegram app on Apple’s AppStore. I’ve been using
Telegram app for a couple of months and it matches the same app I have
installed. I don’t like waving the “Fake News” flag prematurely, but this
seems like an appropriate time to start waving it.

------
qwerty456127
Why not remove Chrome, Safari and E-mail clients for inappropriate content
too? Why not WhatsApp, Skype or iMessage? Telegram is just a wire, it's up to
the users if they want to use it to talk to other users that speak
'inappropriate'.

This is why I will never buy an iPhone (though I don't mind a MacBook as long
as root access and legal ways to install Linux have not been locked on them
yet) - I want to use the device the way I want, have full control over its
filesystem, run the apps I want without all that store bullshit (which hits
even harder if you live outside the USA by the way, in synergy with your local
government bullshit and with what corporations think about your region market)
and decide what is appropriate for me myself.

Today Apple is a fascist organization. Historical fascists did fairly good in
eye-candy design and hardware quality too but that's the only good part of
them and it's pretty much ruined by so much crazy fascist bullshit to tolerate
in exchange.

~~~
donarb
No fascism here, just a buggy program. All the developer has to do is to
follow Apple's rules whereby the user is given the opportunity to control
inappropriate content. As was mentioned in the article, the developer expects
to fix their filters and resubmit the program.

~~~
qwerty456127
Nice to know the details, thanks. But anyway, how can a messenger app know
what content is going to be inappropriate? What if I call somebody when I am
drunk and say something inappropriate - can the telephone app tell this in
advance? How is a messenger different?

