
Ask HN: What laptop do you use? - billylindeman
I&#x27;ve been a proud macbook user for the last 10 years, but I&#x27;ve been using the latest touchbar model for the last 5 months and I&#x27;m starting to lose my mind with it.  I have 200 dollars worth of dongles, and yet I constantly find myself without the one I need on hand (usually a usb-a to usb-c). Its frustrating as hell .  The lack of SD card slot is nothing short of infuriating as well.  And.. on top of that OSX on this is a load of garbage and crashes nearly every time I undock from my external monitor.<p>For the first time in 10 years I&#x27;m considering trading in my shiny aluminum slate and going back to using a linux&#x2F;windows machine as my daily driver (or maybe just buying a used 2015 model).<p>What are you using and are you happy with it?  What are your recommendations for a good linux daily driver machine with good build quality?  Is there anything out there on par with a macbook?
======
zwayhowder
Lenovo X260 running Linux (doesn't matter which one really, I am happy with
Fedora (25 to 27) for desktop, though I've been a Debian/Ubuntu user for far
longer than I like to think about). I use i3 Window manager and now find
anything else intolerable. (And I'm sure everyone near me now finds my
attitude towards i3 intolerable).

I fully tricked the X260 out: i7, 16gb, 2tb ssd (aftermarket addon) and most
importantly the Lenovo WWAN card for Internet everywhere. I just picked one up
on Ebay for $900 AUD second hand with 8/512 for my sister. Brand new mine was
only $2200 in one of Lenovo's rare sales (The ones that only happen when their
website is up, does anyone pay full price?).

Everything "just works", sound, sleep/resume, hdmi, mini DP, etc.

I've replaced everything I had on Mac except for: Readdle Tools. I'm a student
and find the PDF reading markup invaluable and I have an iPad. Though now I
have the WWAN I am leaving the iPad at home this semester. Evernote. Why oh
why don't they have a native client for Linux. NixNote is not up to my size
Evernote folder. Karabiner (Elements), Better Touch Tool & Typinator. Open to
suggestions for shortcut management and text expansion for i3. Mac Automator:
I know I can do most of it in Python, but for some GUI things this was
amazing.

Gripes: Proprietary charging port. (Oh for USB C.). Random crashes that turned
out to be because the plastic case was flexing and touching the RAM. A
strategic piece of foam solved that. (My sister's one didn't have that issue).

I didn't get the fingerprint reader so I don't know if it works on Linux.

~~~
billylindeman
Yeah the ThinkPad X260/270 series seems to be _exactly_ what i want from a
laptop.

~~~
zwayhowder
I forgot the 3 USB ports, RJ45 & SDcard reader too. (And the 24 hours I can
get with the extended battery).

The X280 doesn't look as good to me. More limited range and IIRC soldered
memory.

------
mattkrea
I use the a late 2016 MacBook Pro and had similar issues (even had the
keyboard replaced with a 2017 keyboard and it's great now) but overall I'm
still happy as the crashing seems to be entirely related to the external
monitor usage and that's no longer something I do. FWIW if you have the laptop
open when you connect and disconnect the external monitor(s) it doesn't seem
to crash in my experience.

That said, some of the people at our office love some of the latest Lenovo
ThinkPad models and are running Linux.

~~~
amitutk
I have a 2016 MPB had the same issue with the external monitor when I was
using a 3rd party dongle (which was half the price of Apple's dongles). I have
now bought Apple's dongle and no issues with the monitor.

------
flavoie
I switch my old old MBP for a HP Spectre x360 running Fedora.
[http://store.hp.com/CanadaStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=2SP85U...](http://store.hp.com/CanadaStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=2SP85UA&opt=ABL&sel=NTB)

Build quality is good for a PC, but doesnt match my old MBP (a bit less
robust). Also Apple put an anti glare on the screen, I don't think HP ever
heard of that. Even if there the screen can be brighter, end result is worst.

Everything works fine except the webcam.

But if you're a Mac OS power user, there is some things you'll greatly miss.

First, the keyboard shortcut. OS X uses emacs shortcuts all over the place,
consistently. CTRL-K will do the same thing in the terminal, in your mail app
or in your web app. Same thing for CTRL-E, CMD-[XCV], CMD-Arrow(s) etc... When
you are use to this, it's quite powerful and convenient. Also you're Mac
keyboard has less keys because it doesn't required them.

On linux, it's the same shortcut you'll find on Windows and its mostly
inconsistent. To do the same action the shortcut changes depending on the
running application. Emacs’ in terminal, windows’ in Mail. Sometime copy/paste
is CTRL+[CP], sometime you need to add the Shift key. Same thing for all
shortcuts. When you're used to Mac power and simplicity, this is quite
frustrating.

Plus, if you write in multiple languages, on the Mac keyboard you can write
letter like è, ñ, ... only by using the option key. On linux you have to
switch the keyboard layout or remember the hex code.

After 8 months, I’m still more efficient on a mac keyboard.

One other thing to keep in mind is the trackpad. On linux it's painful. There
is two software solutions, none works correctly. Palm rejection doesn't work
well or it doesn't work at all. The only partially usable solution is to use
disable the trackpad when the keyboard is in action. This is a Linux
limitation, not a trackpad issue. Terrible! Simply terrible.

I don't know how much these details worth, but in the end I'm not sure I made
the right decision to switch.

~~~
billylindeman
I'm sure some of those keyboard issues could be resolved with some
customization with xmodmap.

[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xmodmap](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xmodmap)

It'll be a pain in the ass but once its done you can save the config and have
it forever.

I hear you on the trackpad though. Its sad how far everyone else lags behind
on trackpad quality. The trackpad on the touchbar laptops is immaculate.

------
dvt
The Razer Blade[1]. Excellent build quality, aluminum unibody, bad-ass matte
black color (but admittedly cheesy green Razer logo on the back). I highly
prefer it over the MacBook Pro I had to use at my last job. I also prefer
developing on Windows (or Linux) over OSX.

[1] [https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-laptops/razer-
blade](https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-laptops/razer-blade)

~~~
kelnos
Ugh, "excellent build quality"? Hardly. I bought a Razer Blade Stealth at the
end of 2016, and one of my USB-A ports is dead, the front rubber striping on
the bottom has separated from the body, the body itself has warped (lid
doesn't close flush anymore), one of the body screws has fallen out (exposing
circuit boards to the air, because of the warping), and the backlight for the
leftmost 16 keys on the keyboard no longer works.

I suppose the larger Razer Blade Model might have better quality, but I'm
skeptical given my experience.

I never had any problems remotely like this with Apple laptops (which I used
for ~11 years), which I still consider the gold standard for build quality.
The only real positive I can attribute to the Stealth is that Linux support on
it has been easier than with most Apple laptops I've owned.

~~~
dvt
That's unfortunate, I've had mine for ~2 years and haven't had any major
issues with it. Sometimes mine wakes up randomly (but I think that's a Windows
issue).

------
analog31
For me, it's cheap, cheap, cheap.

My "desktop" is an Asus 11.6" cheapie running Win8. I've got a keyboard,
mouse, and monitor, plugged into it. I can also disconnect it and use it as a
conventional notebook. It was on sale at Best Buy for under 300 bucks, don't
remember exactly how much.

My "notebook" is an Asus 10" convertible, where the screen detaches from the
keyboard and becomes a tablet, running Win10. It's one of those things with no
hard disk, and a relatively small amount of flash storage. It was a refurb,
for around 100 bucks.

Touch screen, wireless mouse, and decent keyboard shortcuts have pretty much
eliminated the need to care about the quality of the trackpad. I love the
touch screens.

I don't need much by way of performance: Browser, Python, Jupyter, for
interesting but relatively lightweight computation.

Now back to the cheap thing. I've decided that starting with a really cheap
computer is basically my "insurance policy" against the thing getting lost,
stolen, or crushed.

------
charlieegan3
It doesn't help much with your dongle frustrations but I've been really happy
with my new Dell XPS 13". It's all usbc like the new MacBooks but you can buy
it with Ubuntu installed - Dell even have a compatible Ubuntu iso on the
website you can download. So far it's been a great MacBook replacement.

~~~
neverminder
What about the infamous XPS coil whine, the 2018 model doesn't have this
problem anymore? Otherwise it's looks like a top notch piece or hardware.

~~~
charlieegan3
The laptop's really quiet in general, no coil whine so far (3 weeks in). Fans
rarely kick in loud enough to be heard (for all I'm doing anyway).

------
bulbousR
Dell XPS 13 9350 qhd+ running arch Linux. The battery life is fantastic! I
used to average 6.5 hours on windows with thermal issues but on arch without a
de, I’m getting a solid 10 hours and my laptop stays cool!

------
kelnos
I used Macs from 2005 to 2016. When the 11" MacBook Air came out, I completely
fell in love with it, and bought three of them over the span of ~5 years. I
generally ran Linux on all of them, except for a period of about 6 months when
one of my new laptops didn't have wifi or suspend-to-RAM support. The 11" MBA
wasn't perfect: maxing out at 8GB of RAM was a constant annoyance, and the
lack of a high-DPI display was disappointing. The low-power CPU was usable but
not great.

With the demise of the 11" MBA, and the ridiculousness of the MBP's Touch Bar,
I decided to try something new. I bought a Razer Blade Stealth near the end of
2016. Initially I was pretty happy; hardware specs were great, and the
industrial design was similar (though certainly not as good) as Apple's. But
then one of the two USB-A ports died. And then the rubber feet on the bottom
of the laptop (actually a long bar across the width of the laptop) started
coming unglued. The body of the laptop is warped for some reason now; when I
close the lid it doesn't sit flush with the body. Last month one of the rear
screws fell out (perhaps related to the warping), and I couldn't find it, so
part of the rear of the laptop is now exposed to the air. A few days ago, the
keyboard backlight stopped working for the 16 left-most keys on the keyboard.

I'm considering going back to Apple later this year after the MacBook gets its
next round of updates, though I'm of course afraid about Linux compatibility
(the MBPs for the past few years, at least, are very poorly supported). I have
a friend who has a Dell XPS 13 and really likes it (he also runs Linux on it),
but I'm not a huge fan of their design. Ditto for Lenovo (and I'm not sure I
trust Lenovo as a company anyway). I might look into Sony, though I'm confused
about what's going on with them -- quick search for "sony vaio" turns up a
press release from them from 2014 saying they're selling their PC business,
but [https://us.vaio.com/](https://us.vaio.com/) exists with a copyright year
of 2018. I'm not particularly impressed by HP's offerings. So... we'll see.

------
kitsunesoba
What generation of touchbar model is it? YMMV, but my observation has been
that the first gen was problematic, but models since are much better. I use a
(I think) second gen 15” touchbar at work and generally speaking it’s not been
a problem at all. It’s about as stable as my own personal 2015 15”.

Additionally, I’ve had no issues with external monitors, but I use Dell and
ASUS monitors exclusively, and it seems that USB C/Thunderbolt 3 flakiness
often comes from the monitor/adapter in question rather from the computer or
OS.

------
jkmcf
Flavoie's comments
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16593355](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16593355))
are really good. Some questions you might ask yourself:

1\. Do you live in the CLI? 2\. Is your desired software available for Linux?
3\. How much do you like tinkering with your desktop/system? 4\. Are you
bothered by features being possibly unreliable or unavailable?

I'm waiting for the next MBP revision, but I might just bite the bullet and
get a refurbished 2015 MBP.

My work computer is a 2017 15" MBP and I use this "dock" to make the dongle
problem significantly less annoying:
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0746381W6/ref=oh_aui_deta...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0746381W6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Work would have preferred me getting a Linux laptop, CUDA would have been a
nice-to-have but isn't a necessity for my work, but after some research these
were the Linux options: System 76 or RazerOne. You might find this
interesting: [https://fossbytes.com/best-linux-laptop-razer-
blade/](https://fossbytes.com/best-linux-laptop-razer-blade/)

------
rabboRubble
I don't have a specific recommendation for you, but I feel your pain and agree
with all the issues you've raised.

My 9 year old Mac finally died, and I thought long and hard about buying a new
Mac as a replacement. I decided against a new Mac because I just couldn't
bring myself to buy another machine with something like the touchbar.

My old Windows machine had something like it, and I kept spending mad amounts
of time debugging WiFi problems only to realize I had accidentally turned off
WiFi with an errant touch. Totally stupid.

My solution was to use my old (hated) Windows machine rather than spending
more (lots) of money on a new hated Macbook. The Windows hardware stinks and
feels chintzy but I already had it, and only needed to buy some software to
bridge a functionality gap between the OSX and Windows X experience.

Then Spectre / Meltdown news broke, and I realized I won't be buying anything
new until Intel and manufacturers have a reliable fixed new product line on
the market. Anything purchased now will still need a microcode update to fix
this issue.

------
Yetanfou
Older machines: Thinkpad T42p, Hp/Compaq 6910b, HP 2230s, etc. All of them
running Linux, mostly Debian. The 2230s is used as a stationary machine,
connected to a monitor and an M1 keyboard.

Why older machines? Because developing on older machines makes sense: if it
works well on those, it flies on more modern hardware. Also, the things just
keep on working. For heavier workloads I have some servers to offload to so
the (by 'modern' standards) relatively anaemic performance of e.g. the Pentium
M 1.8GHz in the T42p is not a problem. The screen on the thing is still better
than on most 'modern' hardware, as is the keyboard. It still gets around 3.5
hours on a battery charge as well.

The servers are connected to gigabit fibre (a recent addition to our farm here
out in the Swedish countryside) so as long as I have a good connection I can
access anything as if I'm home on the ranch. Everything goes through a VPN to
the router here at home, both laptops as well as phones and tablets, making it
possible to use public WiFi without giving up the keys to the kingdom.

------
spondyl
My personal laptop is a Macbook Pro 2015 but for work, I've got an HP ZBook
Studio G3 (i7-7820HQ/32GB RAM/256GB SSD) which is quite nice.

The ZBook is Windows 10 Enterprise but surprisingly, it's been not bad to use.
I run the Linux subsystem which has come a long way since the beta.

My only real complaints are no support for hardware keys (ie if Git signs w/ a
private key on your Yubikey) and, by default, no support for the open command.
There's way to get it to work on the Windows partition but no dice for the
Linux dirs.

There's quite nice interoperability too like the Linux docker CLI being able
to connect to the Windows daemon. Annoyingly, there's a bug where it fails so
you gotta restart Docker once on boot up.

As a CLI fan, all 3 flavours (Win/Mac/Linux) feel the same at this point. It's
basically your pick of OS around it (file explorer/window chrome etc) if you
ask me.

I like the Macbooks but as someone who has run one for a while, I kinda miss
having a mobile GPU and like you mentioned, the slimming down of ports and
that is a pain in the butt.

------
Kluny
I've got a 2011 MBP and I'm going to upgrade to a 2015 model and pray that
they stop doing stupid things to the MBP line eventually :(

------
Someone1234
I use a Microsoft Surface Book (1) with performance base. After Microsoft
ironed out the firmware bugs it is a fantastic laptop/3-in-1, with a good
weight, good keyboard/trackpad, and very good battery life (when docked). I
use it 80% of the time as a laptop, and the touch is for content consumption,
laziness, or testing touch interaction.

I think Microsoft's Surface Laptop is likely a slightly superior device for my
uses but the loss in battery life (from 81.0 Wh in the Surface Book
w/performance base to only 45.2 Wh in the Surface Laptop) is a shame. It is
one of the costs for that 0.68 pound (20%~) weight saving.

Biggest downside of the range is the lack of ports/adapter usage, which is
legitimately obnoxious day to day. I still type meeting notes (often in
OneNote ironically) even with the pen right there, it is simply faster. The
fact this still has MagSafe is super nice (miss that).

I'd particularly recommend the Original Surface Book right now as they're
clearance prices (due to the 2), and still highly premium hardware/experience.

~~~
billylindeman
I heavily debated getting the surface book vs this macbook and I somewhat
regret it. I just wish windows was a bit more enjoyable for development for
me.

WSL is pretty awesome, but IMO its just not quite there for me to use it as my
daily driver.

------
akerbeltz
After using a MBP 2011 17" during 4 years I returned to Windows because I
never got used to macOS. I love the myriad of apps in Windows and since I love
gaming (both play and develop) Windows is the platform to go.

Back in 2015 I bought an MSI GS60 2PC GHOST and it worked great, but the build
quality wasn't that great. The aluminum case wasn't that good comparing to a
MBP and the rubber feet unglued quickly. Since I needed Linux for app
development, I installed a VM. After WSL was launched I was in heaven.

I used it for 2 years without any major issue and a year ago I bought another
MSI, an GS73VR 7RF Stealth Pro and the build quality was improved for sure.
After a year the rubber feet are still there and the aluminum case is great. I
haven't had any issue with it. I love it and my next one will be an MSI again.

I upgraded the RAM to 32GB and changed the secondary HDD to a 512GB SSD drive,
since I hate turning off the computer every day, and I burnt 3 HDD drives this
way xD

------
MichaelGG
Everyone I get to try a real ThinkPad loves them and can't imagine how they
operated before. The new ones even come in white so you can look cool.

Personally I like the X250 (12”). The newer models get a bit hot. The X1 is
often enjoyed. I'm also good with the T4x0s which are slim but have even
better keyboards.

Unfortunately you're forced into choosing between the models which force
tradeoffs as far as screen resolution, heat, keyboard off-centre (15" models
have a numpad which unbalances things). Lenovo refuses to allow you to get a
no compromises model.

Linux suppose is good, though I'd suggest Windows as host OS then run
everything in a VM. Less hassle with drivers that way.

Other competitors are worse than Lenovo. I find MacBooks unergonomic with
horrible heat issues. Asus makes cute stuff but feels sorta cheap. No one
seems to ship great keyboards.

------
jboggan
MacBook Air 2012 11" for text editing. The dual-GTX 1080 Ti rig in the corner
does the heavy lifting.

~~~
peterburkimsher
Choosing between an 11" or 13" MacBook Air took me a while. I like the
portability and light weight of the 11" \- it's great for language exchange in
a café (my Mandarin tutor uses one).

In the end I chose the 13" because it has longer battery life and an SD slot.
I have a 512GB SDXC card, and it's helpful to have extra capacity without a
hard drive hanging off/falling on the floor.

------
ac29
I'm using a ThinkPad X270.

Pros:

Excellent Linux support, zero issues even on day 1

Performs very well

Good battery life (my fans never even turn on during normal use)

Inexpensive (mine was about $850, you can spend more if you want PCIe storage,
or other high end upgrades)

Expandable (standard 2.5" SATA, upgradable RAM, upgradable WiFi)

Full port selection (2xUSB-A, 1xUSB-C, HDMI, Ethernet, SD Card, Headphone)

Good keyboard, TrackPoint mouse (touchpad is also a "precision" touchpad,
though I dont use it)

The 1080p IPS screen is pretty good, and standard, unlike the last ThinkPad I
had

Good BIOS update support, ThinkPads are supported for many years including
very fast turn around on things like BIOS level security updates

Negatives:

The build quality could be better (its not a MacBook), but it feels solid and
I've yet to break a ThinkPad. If plastic bothers you, look elsewhere.

Other computers fit a 13.3" display into the space Lenovo fits a 12.5"

~~~
MichaelGG
Is the heat as bad as reviews say? The X250 seems to be the last X2x0 with a
reasonable heat signature. In can't stand having the keyboard be even warm.

------
acmecorps
I have two - a 2015 MBP and an Acer Chromebook R11.

I absolutely adore this Acer Chromebook R11. For $250, you get almost tablet
like battery life, very light and an 11" touch screen. I just wish it's a bit
more powerful. If anyone know such a laptop exist, recommend one for me.

------
shurcooL
An Apple MacBook Pro (15-inch, Late 2011), with a high-res anti-glare screen,
maxed out CPU and GPU options, 8 GB RAM (can be upgraded to 16), and a Samsung
850 Pro SSD. Very happy with it. Otherwise I would’ve upgraded it by now, but
I’ve not had a need to so far.

~~~
bdcravens
You should be able to upgrade that machine to 16gb of RAM (official line is
8gb max, but I had that machine with 16gb with no issues)

~~~
shurcooL
Yep, I’m aware of that, thanks. 8 GB is enough for my current needs; I’m not
doing anything memory intensive or running many VMs.

------
rufius
2016 MBP 15” for home. 2017 MBP 15” for work.

Pretty happy with both overall. Meets my battery life, perf, and size
requirements. For work, I spend most of my time in VMWare Fusion developing in
Windows right. Eventually that’ll shift to developing in macOS as work shifts.

------
BlackLotus89
I'm using nothing comparable to a macbook.

I'm using: W520 thinkpad as my daily driver. It's bulky and heavy but gets the
job done. The cpu and gpu are nothing to write home about and using an
external monitor for gpu intensive tasks can be a pain, but I'm quite happy
with it.

T420 for the couch and on the go. Solid little laptop you can get for cheap.
Works great with coreboot.

Dell Latitude e5550 for work. Shit reflective screen, medium battery life and
some problems when using multiple displays. But it got rather stable over the
last kernel upgrades and is a okish laptop for work. Ok keyboard and
trackpoint, but like I said reflective screen which is normally a nogo for me.

------
aries1980
A Clevo N130BU for about a year.

\- Core i7-7500U

\- 32GB RAM

\- 1TB Samsung NVMe

\- QHD+ IPS display, 13.3". QHD is a pita on Linux, I have different xrandr
magics for different 2nd screens, I'd happily downgrade this to a normal HD
screen just for the convenience, which would also increase the not-so-great
battery life (it runs for about 3 hours on batteries).

\- No additional GPU (this was a pro to me, because I've never made it work
the nVidia Optimus under Linux).

\- USB-C, HDMI, USB 2.0, MiniDP, SDCard reader, 4G modem, Ethernet UTP socket.
Needing no adapters was a big pro to me.

\- Purchase price of this rig was £1290 last year, UK VAT (20% sales tax),
shipping included.

Without a hardware failure, this rig will be fine for me for the foreseeable
future.

------
dlahoda
If you need light weight machine than will get (thermal or artificially)
throttled(slow), few ports. Like MacBook, Dell XPS, MS Surface. Are you fine
with more heavy weight option?

If you need ports than 2015 is not for you I guess, better to have Thunderbolt
3 or USB 3.2 gen 2 Type-C, so may be starting from 2017 I guess.

And you forget to mentioned price range.

I have bought cheap `Dell Inspiron 15 7577`: \- 1000 USD \- 2.6 KG \- official
Ubuntu Linux \- 2x8GB DDR4 \- 1 NVMe and 1 SATA \- i7-7700 \- GPU NV 1050 Ti
\- mid range IPS 1920 display

There is more pricey with NV 1060 and high end retina display.

It is possible to wait for summer to see next gen laptop models on
i7-8650U(20W) and i7-8700HQ(6 core, 45 W).

------
CO-VAX
Dell Precision M6600 [0] purchased used for $250. I especially like the 17.3"
anti-glare display.

I don't buy new PCs anymore--I buy used from someone I know, or wait until
Dell Refurbished [1] has a sale.

[0]
[https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/precn/en/prec...](https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/precn/en/precision-M6600-spec-
sheet.pdf)

[1] [https://www.dellrefurbished.com/computer-
workstation?filter_...](https://www.dellrefurbished.com/computer-
workstation?filter_category=313)

------
jtl999
2015 Macbook Pro with i7-4870HQ, AMD R9 M370X graphics, 16GB of RAM and a
512GB SSD.

It's my primary machine. I've normally been a "PC" guy but picked up the
Macbook because of a visual impairment where most cheap laptop screens hurt my
eyesight. It's much better now that I've gotten medical treatment for it, but
I don't regret purchasing this laptop anyways.

It's still early days but Chinese companies now manufactor NVMe to Apple SSD
adapters. Once that stabilizes I think I'm going to pick up a 2TB SSD and
continue using this laptop.

Still plan to build myself a new desktop for home after the whole GPU
shenanigans get better.

~~~
peterburkimsher
Is there any reason you'd rather get the NVMe adaptor instead of the OWC Aura
2TB SSD?
[https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/S3DAPB4MB20K/](https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/S3DAPB4MB20K/)

The OWC one is expensive, but I'd rather get TRIM and avoid risking data loss
if an adaptor goes wrong (not sure how likely that is).

------
rayj
I am currently using the MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015) with 16gb
ram and a 250gb ssd. I have had to have the screen replaced for the lamination
unsticking, and the fan replaced since it was starting to sound like a trash
compactor.

Apart from that these are decent laptops, I'd recommend the macbook air though
which is what I had before, the screen is about the same for normal use
(excluding photo editing) and it is much cheaper. Use either of these with a
good 4kp60 monitor/mouse/kb and you're set. Get a desktop box with a couple
1080ti if you need to do number crunching and set it up in the corner..

------
PaulBGD_
Thinkpad p51s. Very fast, two batteries, great battery life on both
windows/Linux, and when I use it docked it feels like a desktop with how
smooth it is. It's very lightweight and thin too, can't recommend it enough.

------
adrianN
I'm using a 2009 Macbook Pro with El Capitan on it. I'm pretty happy with it,
but when it breaks I'll probably switch to a Thinkpad X200 with Linux. I've
also heard good things about System76 laptops.

~~~
CyberFonic
I too am using a 2009 MBP. Installed a SSD ages ago and replaced the battery
about a year ago. Running Mavericks. Good for browsing, emails, etc. Use a
beefed up Ubuntu desktop system for serious development work.

Anytime I walk by an Apple Store, I test out the latest systems. The keyboards
don't feel right for me. And the touch-bar hold very little appeal for me.
When this MBP bites the dust, I'll probably get a PixelBook.

------
bdcravens
If it's an option, I would go with display port to Thunderbolt 3; at home I've
had no issues. (At work I have a Apple Thunderbolt display and OWC Thunderbolt
2 dock; the HDMI display that goes into the dock is always giving me fits
syncing)

However, if I were to go with a Linux machine today, the newly released t480
or t480s would be my choice. I'd even strongly consider running Windows again,
since multi-DPI with Linux is still a challenge (I experimented with using a
maxed out XPS15 with Linux, and that's what drove me back to Mac)

------
obiwahn
I use the X1 Carbon and I am pretty happy with it. Compared to older models
the keyboard and mouse (red dot in keyboard) are not as good as they used to
be and the case does not shut in a way that the lid fits 100%. But other than
that the laptop is a beast and I am happy that Lenovo gave up on stupid
keyboards. The above made me consider to install Linux on a MacBook. Maybe
that is something for you. It will not fix the keyboard issue but maybe the
crashing when you connect external screens. Hope you find a satisfying
solution!

~~~
billylindeman
I actually do have ubuntu installed on it but its not usable atm due to a bug
in the broadcom driver [https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux#wi-
fi](https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux#wi-fi) The solution is to use a
usb wifi dongle... With obligatory USB-A->USB-C adapter >.<

~~~
BlackLotus89
Ok can't say if this works for your macbook, but have you tried ndiswrapper?
If the windows driver is usable it should work.

------
ibz
Been a Macbook user for 8+ years. I used to like their products, but recently
I can't stand them. The MagSafe chargers are very unreliable, and yes, USB-C
with the extra dongles is annoying. The overall build quality seems to have
gotten much worse recently. 2 weeks ago I bought a Thinkpad T440p and
installed OpenBSD. Love it! The one thing I miss is Sublime Text, which I have
gotten quite used to, but I'm sure I'll get used to Emacs again.

------
lokedhs
I'm using the Dell Latitude E7470. It works great with Qubes OS, and the only
reason that I haven't upgraded to the E7480 (which supports 32 GB RAM) is
because I'm waiting for the next model.

Pros: Good keyboard, decent touch pad, 32 GB memory support (for the E7480),
great Linux compatibility.

Cons: Somewhat costly, poor GPU (the latter doesn't matter to me since I'm
using Qubes which doesn't allow you to use the GPU anyway).

------
scrollaway
I use Linux exclusively I currently have an Asus Zenbook, one of the higher
end ones with a touchscreen. I like it in general, but the touchscreen has a
lot of glare. Additionally, the one I got my mom (a lower-end one) has an
unhinged screen now, and I've been concerned with the screen's seating ever
since.

My next one will be a Dell XPS 13. I've seen two of my colleagues use it and
it looks fantastic.

~~~
cozzyd
I've been using Zenbook UX305ua (with Fedora) for the last year and a half
with a matte screen and I pretty happy with it, although some recent kernels
have had some issues now fixed). No USB-C and micro-HDMI is annoying (since
you need a dongle), but otherwise it works well.

~~~
BlackLotus89
The frigging ux305ua! Oh hell no I know what issue you are talking about since
I had to bisect the kernel to find it. The bios had non standard vbt handling
(to put it mildly) and the newer implementatiin which didn't have defaults set
and relied on the hardware simply stopped booting.

Also the keyboard backlight needed dsdt fixed or acpi parameter to work
correctly and the touchpad kinda worked randomly (the keys). It was a great
big hack to get everything working and even thought it's a light kinda nice
looking laptop I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Additional disclaimer: everything seems to work fine with the newest kernel
revision

~~~
cozzyd
Oh... well thanks for doing that! It was a minor inconvenience for me running
with an older kernel for a bit. My keyboard doesn't have lighted keys and I've
never had any issues with the touchpad, so I guess there must be some variance
in those parts...

------
thrill
Lenovo Yoga 4K 16G 1TB - $1500 right now at their site. I used to use Linux
exclusively on my older system, but needed Windows 10 to be onsite for a job -
so when I got this one I installed Ubuntu via the WSL, and it does exactly
what MSFT intended - work well enough for my mostly command line world that I
left Windows on the machine even after I didn't need it for the job any
longer.

------
throwaway_80bf3
2017 15" Macbook Pro with Touch Bar.

I can barely stand to use this busted keyboard. 90% of the time I use a full
size magic keyboard. I routinely hit the touch bar and mute the computer. The
trackpad is too big and will catch my palm.

Would rather have a Thinkpad running Linux or an old MBP/MB Air. This likely
could be the last Apple laptop I get, 14 or so years after I bought a 12.1"
Powerbook G4.

~~~
jetblackio
In the same boat as you. If Apple doesn't fix this horrible keyboard in the
next release, I think I'll finally switch to ThinkPad.

~~~
billylindeman
Yeah. I'm also leaning towards a thinkpad.

------
wpietri
Thinkpad 25th Anniversary Edition. I'm very happy with it, but picked it
specifically because of the keyboard. If you prefer the Mac-style keyboard,
I'd instead suggest you look at the X1 Carbon or the T Series. I've used
Thinkpads for years and am very happy with their durability and reliability.

------
pan69
A mid 2012 MacBook Air with a Core i7 and 8Gigs of ram purchased early 2013 at
a discount rate. Had the battery replaced once and it could use a new screen
(a few blotches and some bleeding at the edges). Other than that, works fine.

Edit: I use this my main development machine. Mostly NodeJS and PHP based
work.

~~~
ElCapitanMarkla
I’m still using my mid 2013 i7 13” air as my main dev driver. only thing that
really holds me back is the 8gb ram. I’ve worked around that by grabbing a
cheap i5 pc which I run my work vm on and ssh into it etc

------
bunfunton
Dell Chromebook 2 with the i3 and 4g of ram running Fedora. It's sleek and has
fantastic battery life, as well as enough processing power to compile stuff /
watch HD videos. It was less than $400, highly recommended if you can find
one.

I have a new Ryzen PC and all I use it for is PUBG...

------
apexalpha
Got an HP Studio g3 through uni, with discount. But it doesn't run Linux
well... Have to disable the dedicated (nvidia) gpu and even then there are
numerous annoying little bugs.

It said on the website RHEL was officially supported but there's nothing of
the sort.

Hoping to go XPS13 next.

(Anyone want a Studio g3?)

------
dima_medvedev
Still using 2011 Lenovo X220 i7-2640M. Excellent Linux (NixOS atm) support,
best keyboard imo, kinda lacking 768p screen. Only had to replace battery, one
ram stick and cpu fan. Dunno what I'll do when it dies, considering laptop
mods from sites like 51nb.

------
senorsmile
Lenovo P51s. It's basically a T570 with discrete graphics. Compatible with
same external batteries. This thing is a monster. I got it with a 1 TB SSD and
32 GB of ram. Immediately wiped windows and put Ubuntu 16.04 server + awesome
wm.

------
jack_pp
The Thinkpad t4xx line are one of the most durable and ergonomic laptops out
there. They won't work for graphics worloads but for programming they're
exquisite. I can find a t470 "used" model for only 800$, retail price is like
1800$.

~~~
ajross
And they remain expandable in an age of integration. A 2.5" drive bay means I
can throw in a 2TB SSD. A removable battery means I can carry 16 hours of work
time. The memory is even on DIMMs.

------
drivingmenuts
Macbook Pro 2015 maxed out running Sierra - no issues other than I'd like a
larger SSD. I probably won't buy another until there is a significant speed
upgrade or something fails.

All things considered, I might wind up taking this laptop to my grave.

------
FabianBeiner
Currently, I'm using a MacBook Air (because I'm working on a heavyweight
Desktop machine at home). But I'll replace it anytime soon. Probably with an
ASUS ZenBook 13 UX331UN or Lenovo YOGA 920.

------
ocdtrekkie
I have a Surface Pro 4, but am considering upgrading to a Dell Latitude 7285,
because it has a hard base keyboard (like a Surface Book), LTE, and a few nice
features I can't get from the Surface line.

~~~
billylindeman
That latitude looks very slick, but I couldn't find any info about linux on it

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I suspect running Linux on it would be a pain in the rear, since it's not one
of the PCs Dell natively supports with Linux, and as a detachable, I'm sure it
has a handful of "weird" drivers that make it work right.

------
lowlevel
HP ZBook Studio G3 - Windows 7. Wonderful as long as you never attach a
thunderbolt dock. Probably the closest thing to a MPB they make. (I manage a
fleet of 50 of them... complete shit show for 9 months.)

------
monksy
Portable: Asus Zenbook UX301F

Non-portable(less used): Sager NP8657-S It's still pretty sweet. Doesn't
outperform new laptops but it keeps me happy.

Both are running Archlinux, the Sager is a dual boot for games.

~~~
realusername
Same, a Zenbook as well, I can't find any better than Zenbook, they run so
well.

------
valbaca
One at work and one at home:

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015)

But I'm glad this thread is here, because at some point these will both die
and I'm not sure what I'll replace them with.

------
wtf_is_up
Thinkpad T540p. Nothing fancy, but it's really solid. I'm also completely
dependent on the nub for navigating. I disable the trackpad completely.

~~~
sjruckle
I'm sorry for you. I bought the same laptop and you're right. The touchpad is
gar-bage.

I purchased it with a 2.4-only wifi card. Did you know the bios enforces a
whitelist restricting which wifi cards you can install? I didn't, now I'm
stuck.

It wasn't cheap, but this was the first (and last) Lenovo I'll ever buy...

~~~
MichaelGG
The 440 and 540 have the ridiculous no-button trackpad. So bad even Lenovo
reversed position for the next gen. You can buy a 450 or 550 trackpad to
replace it for under 100$. Will make a huge difference.

~~~
sjruckle
Holy guacamole. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

------
nemasu
I've got an Asus ZenBook with discrete graphics card running Linux. Everything
works great. No complaints.

------
echevil
2015 Macbook pro. I switched to Mac as I was not happy with Windows Vista, and
never looked back

------
Rinum
Acer aspire r7 372t - touch screen, transformable, very unique. I hope they
continue this line.

------
pravula
Closest one is Dell XPS 15 as long as you can live with its weird web cam
placement.

------
plessthanpt05
Thinkpad t4X0p (e.g. t470p) w/ your favorite Linux flavor (I prefer Debian).

------
ajdlinux
For work, 2016 ThinkPad X1, 14".

Works great, would recommend, runs Debian just fine.

------
filereaper
2015 Thinkpad Lenovo w550s.

Has all the ports I need, including VGA! No USB-C though...

~~~
peterburkimsher
It looks like a good laptop! Screen resolution of 2880x1620 is a little lower
than the MBP Retina 2880x1800, but it's close. It has VGA & Ethernet, and the
MBP has HDMI & dongles. I've used the HDMI connection several times, although
I think VGA would've sufficed at those moments. It looks like a good series
though; I hope Lenovo doesn't buy into Apple's port-removing craze.

------
handbanana
dell precision 5520 dual boot windows 10 pro/ubuntu. I hardly ever use windows
on it though

------
peterburkimsher
I'd like to hear more about the non-Apple options, but this is my research
before buying a spare laptop last week.

This is the last year when you can buy the 2015 MacBook Pro with AppleCare
warranty. Go to the Apple Refurbished store, and you should be able to find
the old model. Refurbished means it was serviced by Apple during the warranty
period. There's a maximum of 3 years warranty, therefore now is the last
chance to buy the 2015 model. You can then add another 3 years AppleCare at
checkout, and have Apple keep supporting it until 2021.

My main laptop is/was a 2014 Retina MacBook Pro, 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM. I
accidentally booted into Diagnostics mode one day (holding down D on startup)
and found a battery error PPT004. The warranty expires at the end of this
week, so last Friday I took it to an AASP repair shop to try to get them to
replace the battery before my warranty runs out.

While it goes away for 2 weeks, I decided to buy a spare laptop. I agonised
over this choice for 2 days.

The MacBook Pro 2008 model can be bought for only $300 on eBay, and can take
two 2.5" SSDs (one in the optical drive bay). The largest 2.5" SSD is 4 TB
from Samsung. I really want that space. I could also recycle it as an external
drive. The old keyboard with no gaps between the keys is really appealing. It
can run macOS 10.12 (although I'd rather have 10.9). It has a replaceable
battery (and I already have a spare), so I'd get 5 + 5 hours = 10 hours
battery life. However, I'd need to buy an ExpressCard adaptor to add USB 3 or
SD reading. It also only has a maximum of 6 GB RAM. The screen is 15", but the
resolution is only 1440x900. It's also heavy.

My other option was the MacBook Air 2013-2014 model. I specifically wanted
those years, because they can run 10.9 (and even 10.8, so I can sync Notes
without iCloud). I'd buy it locally, and get a Taiwanese keyboard with lots of
special characters. It's also super light, and has SD and USB 3 built in. The
screen is only 13" (not 15"), but has the same resolution as the 2008 model
(1440x900). The battery can be replaced by unscrewing the case - it's not
glued in like the Retina MacBook Pro. The battery life is 12 hours. The SSD is
compatible with the Retina, so when I get my main laptop back from repair and
buy a 2TB upgrade, the Air can take the hand-me-down 512GB. MagSafe 2 (which
is great) is also going to be compatible between my 2013 Air and the 2014 Pro,
unlike how it would be if I bought the 2008 Pro. The Air needs dongles for
Ethernet and FireWire, but I have those for my Retina already.

If you want the MacBook Pro with an optical drive, only buy the 2012 model.
Older models only have USB 2 and no Thunderbolt. The prices I found were much
more expensive though, for lower battery life and comparable screen
resolution.

In the end, I bought the 2013 MacBook Air. Downgrading the OS was hard! I had
to mount in Thunderbolt Target Disk Mode, partition the drive, use DiskMaker X
5 to make one partition into a Mountain Lion installer, then reboot, install
Mountain Lion on the other partition, backup with Time Machine, reboot into
recovery mode, erase the drive again to make a single partition, and restore
the Time Machine backup. It was hard, but it was possible, and I'm now typing
this from the Air running 10.8. There's a few issues (Safari 6 doesn't let me
see Github because of HTTPS issues, Skype doesn't run), and I might upgrade to
10.9 if those issues bother me too much.

If anyone has comments about running Linux on the MacBook Air - I'm also
expecting to hop platforms soon, and I'll be using this spare laptop as a
testing ground for that. Thankfully I resisted "upgrading" to a newer macOS
that would change my drive to APFS. Linux should still be able to mount my
HFS+ drive, because I stayed with the old OS. When my killer apps (iTunes &
AppleScript) are ported, I'll be ready to jump, and start developing for Linux
instead.

~~~
mercer
What are the security implications of using an old version of OSX?

~~~
peterburkimsher
Security from whom, against what threat?

Years ago, I tried to help a friend transition from Windows on a white MacBook
to Boot Camp. She didn't tell me that the NTFS partition was using security
features. I ignorantly made a DMG of the disk, and tried to restore that as a
partition. It wasn't bootable, so I tried again as a virtual machine. Mac OS
can mount the DMG, but only read the non-encrypted files. I still think her
data is lost, although I keep the DMG on my external drive just in case tools
come along one day when I can rescue her data. I was embarrassed at my mistake
(don't just image a drive and expect it to work), and now I just tell people
to make their own backup.

Local security isn't about protecting yourself from PRISM. On Windows it's
about viruses, but those are less common on Macs.

I'd rather have a machine using HFS+ that I can mount R/W on Linux, with root
login, with an easy way to set up a local web server. Worrying about hackers
when I'm behind NAT just doesn't seem proportional - if they're on the same
network, they can probably just walk over and get hardware access. Security is
like DRM; it makes life for everyone more difficult, and those who are truly
determined will get in anyway.

------
orcul
An oldish ThinkPad T420

------
sutterbomb
Rose gold MacBook ;)

~~~
shurcooL
How are you finding typing on that keyboard, assuming you do it more than just
a handful of hours per day?

~~~
sutterbomb
Late to this... when it works, no problems at all for me. But then a random
key sometimes ends up sticking, which I’ve heard elsewhere too and is a pain
in the ass. Click it enough and I’ve been able to unstick them each time but
still an issue.

