
The Fake Meat Revolution - noondip
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/20/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-the-fake-meat-revolution.html
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wodenokoto
Wow, people are really missing the big picture. These are great developments
towards reducing environmental damage, increase animal welfare and long term
increase health (as we can much better tweak nutritional content of meat, when
we construct it ourselves)

~~~
omginternets
>as we can much better tweak nutritional content of meat, when we construct it
ourselves

Hmm, I heard something vaguely familiar not so long ago... Have people already
forgotten trans-fats?

To call meat, let alone nutrition, complex is an understatement that borders
on comical. To think the first hundred iterations of artificial meat will be
anything short of carcinogenic strikes me as an opinion ill-informed by
history.

~~~
CamperBob2
As somebody pointed out in a comment on another story, your CPU executed about
a dozen instructions while the light from your monitor traveled to reach your
eyes.

So I think we can make meat.

~~~
coldtea
> _Your CPU executed about a dozen instructions while the light from your
> monitor traveled to reach your eyes. So I think we can make meat._

Argument from non sequitur?

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CamperBob2
Argument from "When there's a will, and a lot of money, there's a way."

~~~
omginternets
So an argument on faith, then? That's not any better.

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Jayschwa
I think I'll pass on plants processed to look and taste like meat. What I'd
really like to see is real meat that is grown without being attached to a
conscious animal.

~~~
coldtea
You'd love Soylent Green then!

~~~
puredemo
mmmm Cadmium

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pbreit
The fake meat stud is certainly interesting but I think we (Americans) could
get pretty far, if not the whole way, by simply moderating meat consumption.
For example, just tonight my group of 5 adults and 5 toddlers claimed they
were satisfied with just 16oz of beef for all.

My sense is that meat does tend to be harder on the body and that vegetarians
are healthier and live longer.

~~~
geomark
Are there decent studies that show that vegetarians are healthier and live
longer? I've seen nothing but anecdotes. And my own anecdotal evidence is the
opposite. But I'm comparing healthy vegetarians I know to healthy meat eaters
I know. The vegs spend a lot of time and effort to get enough balance in their
diets to remain healthy, but they still seem a little weaker and a bit puny
compared to the healthy meat eaters. And a few people I know who are into
ketogenic diets eat lots of meat while avoiding carb rich foods and they seem
the strongest of the bunch. Everybody says their blood work is good, no
cholesterol issues, etc.

~~~
eimai134
Look up the "China study" for an incredibly detailed study on plant-based
diets, or the research that's been done on the "Blue Zones." In addition there
have been quite a number of studies on diet that show people who follow plant-
based diets live longer and have fewer health problems. Being vegetarian
doesn't require a lot of effort if you learn a little bit more than the
average American about food. Eating fruit, veg, grains, and beans is not
difficult and provides all the nutrients one could need - even more,
considering how unhealthy the standard American diet (SAD) is. Look up vegan
body builders - you will see that they are not puny at all!

~~~
com2kid
The China Study has been debunked numerous times[0].

I'm currently on a high fat, medium protein, 0 carb diet. It isn't
environmentally friendly, but the weight falls off and I feel _great_.

The Standard American Diet is High Carb, Medium Fat, with some tasteless white
meat (turkey breasts) thrown in at random.

[0][http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-
Study.html](http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html)

~~~
DanBC
> and I feel great.

That's not a good way to assess a lifestyle that has long term consequences.

If a lifestyle increases your risk of bowel cancer that's going to happen this
week, it'll happen after you get to fifty. UK screening for bowel cancer
happens at 55.

[http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/red-
meat.aspx](http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/red-meat.aspx)

(90 g is 3oz.)

~~~
Evgeny
[http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/red-
meat.aspx](http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/red-meat.aspx)

So ... not a single link to a scientific study on that very long page?

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663065](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663065)

 _Collectively, associations between red meat consumption and colorectal
cancer are generally weak in magnitude, with most relative risks below 1.50
and not statistically significant, and there is a lack of a clear dose-
response trend._

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174014...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174014000564)

 _Meat contains a number of compounds of nutritional benefit and may not be
carcinogenic as such but rather, when consumed in very high amounts, may
result in an imbalanced diet and thereby increase the risk of developing CRC._

 _Products formed in cured or heated meats may further enhance such damage._

So, basically, do not eat so much meat that your diet is unbalanced, and avoid
processed meats and you'll be fine.

~~~
noondip
>
> [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663065](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663065)

 _This work was partially funded by the Beef Checkoff, through the National
Cattlemen 's Beef Association (NCBA)_

>
> [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174014...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174014000564)

 _D Weed has received consulting fees from the National Cattleman 's Beef
Association in the past._

So, basically, you have been mislead by industry lobbyists.

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p1mrx
I just noticed yesterday that my local grocery store was selling Beyond
Chicken, and decided to try some. It does have some vaguely chicken-like
properties, but it's still too dry and rubbery to fool anyone paying the
slightest attention.

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hyperbovine
> it's still too dry and rubbery to fool anyone

"Dry and rubbery" is all the chicken I ever experienced until moving to the
Bay Area and getting way more into food. At the top segment of the market
sure, it's going to be many decades before people plow into a SynthSteak™ with
the same verve that they would a dry-aged porterhouse. But I think you
underestimate what many people are willing to put up with as their daily
protein source.

~~~
grimman
> But I think you underestimate what many people are willing to put up with as
> their daily protein source.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not even about putting up with anything. Real
meat is cheaper _and_ tastes better.

That's two reasons to keep eating meat, and depending on your beliefs it's
either one or zero reasons against.

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eimai134
This is fabulous news! Great for animals, good for the environment, good for
world hunger, and good for people's health and well-being.

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hyperion2010
This or mealworms. Test tube beef will be made from serum albumin from
slaughtered cows.

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itachi444
I think the problem is the people who says my dream is the change the world.

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guard-of-terra
I'm not sure that growing veggie burger consumes much less water than its
animal counterpart.

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eimai134
There is a chart in this article that shows how significantly lab-grown meat
decreases water use compared to meat from cows, sheep, pigs, and chickens. And
this is referring to a process that is in very early stages!
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/20/me...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/20/meet-
the-future-of-meat-a-10-lab-grown-hamburger-that-tastes-as-good-as-the-real-
thing/)

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iofj
I do hope people realize that fake meat is plant food and thus requires
nutritional supplements (or an -extremely- varied diet) or it will cause
serious health issues.

Meat has no such requirement. While it may not be good for you in the long
term, you can survive purely on meat for decades.

~~~
nikatwork
Someone please tell India's ~40% of their population of 1.25 billion that they
have serious health issues and need to change their diet or they might die.

And no, this is not a poverty issue. I work with some very successful expat
Indian developers who are strict vegetarians.

~~~
DanBC
Malnutrition is incredibly common in India.

[http://wfp.org/content/malnutrition-widespread-indian-
childr...](http://wfp.org/content/malnutrition-widespread-indian-children-
report-finds)

> Roughly 42 percent of all Indian children under age 5 suffer from
> malnutrition, a sobering reminder of the persistence of poverty and hunger
> in the world’s largest democracy,

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nikatwork
Vegetarianism in India is partly driven by religious and cultural values. That
article does not link vegetarianism with malnutrition.

My city has a flourishing expat Sikh community who are largely (though not
exclusively) vegetarian, they are for the most part robust and successful
individuals.

To categorize vegetarians as intrinsically at risk of health issues needs
evidence before I'll buy it. And I say this as a meat eater.

~~~
eimai134
Great point! According to research done on "Blue Zones," the healthiest
community in the U.S. is a group of Seventh Day Adventists who are vegetarian.
It would be so interesting to see what their diet has in common with
vegetarians in Indian and Sikh communities.

