
The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors - gadders
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45117163
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lucb1e
This specific case aside, I don't understand what the big deal with euthanasia
is in more clear-cut cases. Why is it not possible for terminal cancer
patients (or similar terminal diseases) abroad? It seems we have run this long
enough to prove that, yes, it is possible to run this system without apparent
abuse.

And in this specific case, please keep in mind that it is so exceptional that
it made international news. Both the Netherlands (RTL, as mentioned) reported
on it as well as apparently the BBC. It's not as if we go along with every
teen's death wish, and as the article says, "the process can take years". It's
on the long side rather than short, as you have all the time in the world to
reconsider, but also all the time in the world to suffer more. My grandfather
had it finally arranged and was looking forward to it, but it was scheduled
for a week after he died naturally. Poor man. This really _is not_ about
giving up on someone or saying someone doesn't deserve to live.

~~~
klondike_
The main argument I've heard against euthanasia (excluding religious ones) is
that it may induce an obligation or pressure for terminally ill people to die.
People with terminal diseases can be a financial and emotional burden on their
family and society, which may cause family members or doctors to coerce
patients to be euthanized.

So far, in places where euthanasia is legal, this isn't the case. I doubt it
ever will be, but I can understand how people can fear widespread euthanasia
for that reason.

~~~
candiodari
Worse than that, it can provide an avenue for people who commit crimes to ...
shall we say encourage what, for them, would be a solution.

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zdragnar
_" How could I know - how could anybody know - that her death wish was not a
sign of her psychiatric disease? The fact that one can rationalise about it,
does not mean it's not a sign of the disease,"_

Words cannot express how grateful I am that suicide was not an endorsed or
approved option for me in my younger years.

~~~
PastaMonster
What was it that helped you?

~~~
peterburkimsher
Rather than pretending suicide isn't an option, putting it in its rightful
last place is helping me manage my emotions. I'm a conscientious objector. If
someone gives me a gun and tells me to shoot someone else, I'd rather turn it
upon myself than kill another person.

Life sucks. Right now I'm going through a really tough time. So bad that I
wanted to Shut Down. But instead I chose to Reboot. Got a plane ticket, flew
on Wednesday, and now I'm 10,000 km from the problems and very relieved. I
really, really hope that I can find a new job and restart life soon - my
savings won't last more than a couple of months. But this is an emergency.

If it doesn't work out, becoming a monk is another possibility to retreat from
the world. And if that doesn't work out, then perhaps prison. And extremely
dangerous career choices, such as war zone photography. Bad circumstances will
drive me to those first, before I'd hurt myself. If you're not afraid of
death, you're fearless! You're free! That courage can be used to help people.
Please try that first.

For people wanting to help, don't ask "What happened?" \- that focuses on the
problem. Say "Are you OK?", "What can I do to help you?" if you care about the
solution.

~~~
throwaway8879
I didn't get the chance to reboot, it was more like a hard reset. Good luck,
friend. :)

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lootsauce
I know someone who has survived multiple suicide attempts, BPD, Bipolar,
Clinical Depression, etc. They went through hell, had convulsive shock
therapy, a decade of therapists and experimental drugs that could kill you.
They now live a perfectly normal happy life.

There is light at the end of the tunnel. There is so much good in this world
it is worth all that and more to hang on and see it through.

We should have headlines that read "Troubled 29-year-old helped to live by
Dutch doctors" We should not embrace euthanasia we should embrace every
individuals inherent worth, they deserve love not poison.

I know exactly how people feel for them and say it is their right. Indeed it
is the open door. It is always available, you need to simply walk through it.
I would hope that we on this side of it would be begging people not to go
rather than shoving them through it. It is no great thing to put someone to
death, no matter how it makes us feel about it they will never have the chance
to feel anything.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Yet for every story akin to this there is one of someone who's unable to get
desired help, despite years of trying. Of mental health services that are
unavailable or under-funded, or go through shit for most of their life. All
the while living in countries that don't have euthanasia available, even for
terminal cases.

We are already "begging" people not to go - that leads to the efforts to turn
it into a huge guilt trip as often practised by church dignitaries when
discussing euthanasia - both in the specific or abstract. Also, as described
in the article, they have to validate their state of mind with others first.

Neither should we be shoving them through it.

Can't we just accept that sometimes someone has actually had enough and let
them make their own minds up? Their life might _actually be shit,_ and it is
they that have to live it.

The fact that it rare enough to be headline worthy, yet the thousands of cases
who go through a temporary acute crisis and hang or shoot themselves aren't
speaks volumes don't you think?

~~~
lootsauce
I know exactly how you feel, I get that argument. I choose to disagree on
moral grounds. I know it is so easy to disregard my position. But here is just
one thing to consider.

It is far cheaper to provide assisted suicide than to provide social support,
medical support and guidance. When we have all these baby boomers headed for
infirmity and assisted living lacking the funds to pay for it, make no
mistake. You will see suicide made out to be heroic, it will be lifted up.
Death with dignity will be promoted with unassailable stories. But you will
never hear of the lives, of those silenced ultimately because of an economic
reality. We should choose to lift up life even when it hurts to affirm the
great dignity of each person. Because an emotional story can become the
authorization in a bureaucratic system to wipe people away to save money.

[http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-
dignit...](http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-
dignity/assisted-suicide/to-live-each-day/assisted-suicide-videos.cfm)

~~~
NeedMoreTea
No disregard of your personal position - I respect your right to choose your
own outcome and hold life sacred for you and yours.

I get uncomfortable when it's others imposing the belief that a life is
"sacred". I might then be forced to die slowly, and extremely painfully, over
some years having been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Having seen that with
my father, though he received superb palliative care, no thank you.

I've heard the killed for cost argument many times over the thirty or so years
since it became a regular media topic in the UK. It;s roughly 20 since
Netherlands legalised euthanasia, maybe more. The reality doesn't seem to bear
any resemblance to your predictions; the vast majority in the Netherlands are
still in favour of the law (over 90% I think), yet the numbers taking
euthanasia are still low. The requirement for medical second and third
opinions should prevent unpleasant relatives pushing granny under the bus or
the state seeking to save cash. A universal healthcare system undoubtedly
helps distance the patient from the cost implications.

Even having passed all the the hurdles, with an advance directive completed
beforehand, it's not guaranteed euthanasia will result. If you haven't
completed an advance directive and are not in sound mind, it's simply not
available. In other words it's not a policy decision, it's a personal and
medical one.

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xmb
What is and is not a psychiatric disease seems as subjective as what is and is
not a crime. A growing understanding of psychiatric illness has yielded at
least some good. But claims of psychiatric disease have also been abused for
great evil. What constitutes mental illness will continue to evolve. Perhaps
if the future is dystopian, suicidal tendencies will be treated as a normal,
healthy reaction to everyday life. What should and should not die will remain
a difficult question, but maybe suicide will be treated as a liberty. The
human condition is far more than the labels we place on kinds of people and
the kinds of lives they live.

~~~
flukus
> but maybe suicide will be treated as a liberty

It is a liberty, it's the closest thing we have to a truly inalienable right,
mostly by virtue of being un-punishable. Short of strapping someone to a bed
permanently it's impossible to forcibly prevent.

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sasaf5
As a non-lethal alternative, couldn't we have a "social suicide"? Maybe some
mechanism to erase all non-criminal records of a person and restart them on a
different place, with a different name? Perhaps it couldn't cover cases of
severe mental disease, but it could help many.

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basicplus2
Saying "yes ok lets kill you" just says "yes you are not worth saving"

~~~
dang
Please don't post unsubstantive comments, especially on a difficult topic like
this one where emotions are guaranteed to run high.

~~~
jazoom
Although I'm pro-euthanasia in a medical sense, I don't think it's fair to
dismiss GP's comment like that. There was definitely substance to it, and that
substance is worth thinking about, even if you sit on the other side of the
fence.

If you disagree, say why you disagree. Don't just say "your viewpoint has no
substance".

~~~
dang
It's not a question of disagreeing. That comment was glib and reductionist.
People need to do better than that here, especially on divisive topics. The
replies to my objection were far more substantive than the original comment,
proving that this is easy enough to do if people want to.

~~~
jazoom
Those replies also appreciated that "glib and reductionist" comment.

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thomble
Was she killed because she was incompatible with society?

