
Why Isn’t Native American Food Hip? - dpc59
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/why-its-hard-for-successful-native-american-restaurants-to-expand/489449/?utm_source=atlfb&amp;single_page=true
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bpodgursky
As a lot of the comments on the Atlantic article point out, a ton of new-world
foods are so embedded in the American diet now that we don't even think about
them

\- Potatoes

\- Salmon

\- Tomatoes

\- Chocolate

\- Corn / hominy

\- Bison (less common, but it's not something I'd think of as "native american
food"

If I got served grilled salmon with potatoes and cornbread at a "normal
American" restaurant, it's not something you'd think of as Native American
food, but it would be totally new-world sourced. Obviously there are losses in
recipes / preparation / traditions, but it's not unrecognizable.

~~~
maga
Fun fact: corn and cornbread is so embedded in the cuisine of the North
Caucasians[1] that it's perceived by locals as historically theirs as opposed
to wheat and white bread that is thought of as "Russian". Older, less-educated
locals don't even believe when you tell them it had been imported from America
just few hundred years ago.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Caucasus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Caucasus)

~~~
Turing_Machine
I've known people from India to react in disbelief to the idea that chili
peppers historically didn't exist in India (or anywhere in Asia).

~~~
taejo
Same in Ethiopia.

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marak830
(note: head chef here). Most of my customers don't want traditional. They want
something with a twist, or a full fusion.

Authentic is interesting the first few times, but if you take that authentic
and mix it up well, you can get a much better end product. (the story did not
that the chef tried this, and had complaints, imo the conplaints are from
people who wanted to try our authentic - so he should have had both on his
menu).

It has piqued my interest though, I think I'll see what traditional recipes I
can find online and give them a go :-)

~~~
dragonwriter
> Most of my customers don't want traditional.

Most of your customers probably don't know the relevant tradition, and if it
didn't seem a complete novelty, it would seem like a twist on something
familiar to them (because you'd be backing out later twists that the customer
was used to.)

OTOH, even if you _did_ add your own twist to it, it would still be a new base
to work from.

~~~
marak830
Yes and no. Some do, and those that Doe know the traditional are more likely
to leave recipes(imho), so now I run a dual system. I'll offer the fish as
both traditional, or the 'restaurant name' special version to add a twist. (As
long as it's not adding too much overhead to my chef's, if it is, I'll drop
whichever one i think isn't as good).

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williamstein
I always wonder about this. Many Navajo people I know view the whole idea of
selling traditional native foods to the general population as basically
selling out, and just fundamentally won't do it. There are s lot of
restaurants and stands on the reservation though (and at events) which target
natives. I recently heard my mother in law (who is Navajo and a cook for her
job) tell me her work regularly tries to get her to make Navajo food (which is
very good) but she absolutely refuses. Nstives have strong views about
protecting their culture and view everything from food to religion to music as
a part of that...

~~~
nthcolumn
They think that if they share it / sell out that it will be somehow changed or
diluted and ultimately lost? That is probably 100% correct. This is the first
defensible argument for closed source I have ever heard. I came to say I was
surprised the company used the the term 'Indian' taco but maybe that is better
than say 'Navajo-style' taco which might just become Navajo-taco. The term
'Indian' is not useful generally. That taco looks so tasty.

~~~
williamstein
Yes, if you try to see things from their perspective, regarding how they have
been treated over the centuries, it makes sense. Regarding closed source -- my
wife is teaching a class on indigenous intellectual property in the iSchool at
Univ of Washington right now, and it is mostly about protecting traditional
knowledge from exploitation. A lot of what she says and her perspectives takes
me a while to process, since I'm a big open source software advocate (e.g., I
founded SageMath).

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boomboomsubban
All the ethnic cuisines aren't actually that old, and the period that they
range from has been full of mass migration, cultural genocide, and actual
genocide.

Most people live in cities, and likely their only contact with large groups of
Native Americans involves tribes lucky enough to have a reservation nearby
where a casino can flourish. It's still a bitter ongoing thing in rural areas,
where we take their children and send them to boarding schools for most of
their childhood, robbing them of a family experience and robbing the community
of good paying jobs and opportunities.

This probably isn't the right place for this, but I grew up in the same town
as one of these schools, and the more I learn the more ridiculous it is. They
are a Catholic charity so don't have to reveal their spending, they've had
multiple scandals for lying on donation requests, basically everyone running
it is rich and white. Yet no one seems to care.

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CPLX
I'm going to go out on a limb and say because it doesn't taste very good. I
lived in Colorado for years and spent a lot of time in and around the four
corners area, Shiprock, Kayenta, Monument Valley, etc.

The traditional dishes are typically bland, and are very simple with not much
room for improvement. Looking good on paper isn't really enough to launch a
culinary trend.

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batbomb
Well, for Navajo food:

Mutton is too strong tasting

Elk is hard to come by

Fry Bread is greasy

Chicos (smoked corn) is impossible to find outside the four corners

Navajo Cake is like a weird sweet tamale

Piñon nuts are expensive and seasonal.

~~~
chrisseaton
Americans don't eat a lot of lamb or mutton at all do they? I once had a
shepherd's pie in the US that was made with beef! Presumably because they
weren't able to source any lamb at all.

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evincarofautumn
American shepherd’s pie tends to comprise ground beef, corn, and mashed
potatoes, sometimes with the addition of other veggies (peas, carrots) and
cheese. Using lamb would generally be considered unusual.

Lamb & mutton aren’t very popular in the US. In my experience, people who are
used to beef expect lamb to be more or less like beef—and since beef
_definitely_ should not taste like lamb, they end up thinking lamb has an
“off” taste and dismiss it without letting it stand on its own merits.

Thankfully here around San Francisco there are some butchers where you can
source good lamb, and the ethnic cuisines include enough lamb that local
Westerners are perhaps a bit more accustomed to it.

~~~
chrisseaton
> American shepherd’s pie tends to comprise ground beef, corn, and mashed
> potatoes, sometimes with the addition of other veggies (peas, carrots) and
> cheese. Using lamb would generally be considered unusual.

But that's a cottage pie then.

~~~
Digit-Al
That's what I was going to say. Shepherds pie is called shepherds pie because
a shepherd is a sheep herder. If it's made with beef, as you say, it's cottage
pie. Those crazy yankees :-)

~~~
gommm
Speaking about names, I still don't understand why Americans insist on calling
main dishes as Entrées. An entrée is a starter, it's based on the verb entrer
which is to enter. Drives me crazy...

~~~
chrisseaton
Because the main dish makes the big entrance. I believe French cuisine used to
use the same meaning and it diverged when people stopped always having a roast
as well as an entrée.

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gommm
When they used it as that meaning, the next dish was called the "relevé" which
was a larger dish that replaced the entrée. So, the entrée wasn't the actual
main dish.

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Fomite
Ironically, for those that live in DC, one of the great open secrets is that
if you're on the National Mall, by far one of the best places to eat is the
National Museum of the American Indian.

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jhbadger
I think it was better ten years ago or so, though. I had a visitor recently
and I took him there and it was just okay, but I remember when it really used
to be one of the best places around.

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c517402
Kai restaurant in Phoenix has the following the following 2 tasting menu
options.

Short story - $145/$250 with wine

Journey - $245/$375 with wine and must be ordered by the entire table

Maybe price has something to do with the lack of popularity.

Link to Kai menu:
[http://c12d8f7925c6939ef765-69128410dff90197ed724116b2713034...](http://c12d8f7925c6939ef765-69128410dff90197ed724116b2713034.r44.cf1.rackcdn.com/lps/assets/u/kai_dinner_Spring-2017.pdf)

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rjbwork
I would love to try Native American food, but there does not appear to be
anything in my area (Atlanta) that serves it.

Kind of a chicken and egg problem, it would seem.

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smoyer
When our family visits the Smithsonian Institute, one of our favorite places
to eat is "Mitsitam Cafe" [0] which serves a variety of authentic native
american foods.

[0] [http://nmai.si.edu/visit/washington/mitsitam-
cafe/](http://nmai.si.edu/visit/washington/mitsitam-cafe/)

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rfrey
For Toronto folks reading this, an Anishinaabe restaurant called NishDish just
opened on Bloor. It's quite tasty, about 10-15 dollars for a meal.

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pinaceae
Because strong spices never reached them?

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adultSwim
Genocide?

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rootsudo
Really don't care. Food is food and to pay markup for flair, location, vibe,
history, assortment, arrangement, reservation for daily substance is against
nature.

~~~
twic
You're doing it completely wrong. Eating good food is a leisure activity.

~~~
jungletek
Hey maybe they enjoy their Soylent and flavorless nutrient blocks!

Edit: Guess it hit someone close to home. Thanks for contributing no feedback
other than hitting the "I don't like this post" button, really makes debugging
easier /s

