
Ask HN: How to Be a Decent Manager? - nobodyandproud
As a technical person who’s likely on the spectrum and who’s very poor in the verbal communication skills department:  I recently started a position to lead a small development team.<p>This is my first foray into managing; after many, many years of development.<p>I have little in common with my charges—I don’t really expect to be chummy with people at work—but it’s 100% my goal to help my underlings succeed in their careers.<p>Any targeted advice?<p>There was a former topic that highlights the end goal: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20230133<p>But do I account for poor verbal skills?
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FranzFerdiNaN
Your number one role is to be a shit umbrella, protecting your team from all
the shit that gets flung at them from all sides.

It’s you who will have to say no to the higher ups when they demand that you
drop everything and start working on quantum computers because their brother
heard about it on a birthday.

It’s you who will have to argue with other managers and team leads when they
want to push work on your team.

It’s you who will have to step up when team members get into bad arguments
with each other.

You will have to accept that your job will leave less and less time for the
technical side you’ve done before.

You are no longer the same rank as your team members, never forget that.
Because they won’t, and if you get into technical arguments with them they
might follow your idea because you’re the boss, not because you are right.

If you can’t or won’t want deal with these kinds of things, please don’t take
the job. Management is a real skill.

~~~
artsyca
Not to mention exemplifying the 'company values' for whatever they're worth

~~~
Delmania
Yes, the manager’s sheen. No matter how you’re feeling you should always
strive to exude and instill positive energy into any interaction you have with
the team.

~~~
artsyca
Actually, most of my managers have dragged their asses behind low hanging blue
jeans and shown overt contempt for the brand and any form of idealism; at one
company I learned 'initiative is punishable' \-- they seem to squirrel
themselves into a cozy position with a director and the 'sheen' you describe
is more of a greasy film to which on accountability can ever stick

------
davismwfl
You will need to work on your verbal communication (most everyone need to) as
it is one of the most critical aspects of being a good leader. But that
doesn't mean you have to be super wordy or buddies with everyone.

You do need to be able to read people's body language and understand their
motivations, goals and comments even when maybe poorly communicated (this is a
learned skill). Good part is generally leading engineers is helped by having
solid technical skills yourself as they will respect you more than just a
people manager to start and give you more latitude.

I'd also start off with them one and one, and tell them humbly but direct that
you sometimes can struggle with verbal communication and that if they see an
issue or have a concern to just raise it with you so you can work on it
together. Treat everyone as equals with respect and care, don't feel as the
manager/leader you are above them, think of being a leader as it is your job
to serve your team. If they need a bridge to accomplish their task, you build
the bridge for/with them to facilitate.

You can be super successful as a leader, just takes practice and time. Be
humble, honest and human and you won't have issues getting people to follow
your lead. That said, do not allow people to take advantage of you, being kind
and humble is important but that does not mean you are anyones doormat. :)

~~~
BOOSTERHIDROGEN
How do you tell difference between being used and being kind/humble ? Any
references ti improve this

~~~
artsyca
'humbly' would come from nonverbal cues, and boy oh boy you're not ready to
hear the truth but sometimes it's appropriate to dress up at work

~~~
pts_
What does dressing up achieve? I mean I probably already know it but your
opinion is welcome.

~~~
artsyca
There's no rational explanation but it's the right thing to do

Computing professionals trace their roots to primarily home computing
enthusiasts, academics and video game nerds all of whom seem to prefer casual
dress in their professional pursuits --

Look at the people working on UNIVAC
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_software#/media/Fil...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_software#/media/File:Grace_Hopper_and_UNIVAC.jpg)

Do we all have so little in common with them we have to absolutely shun
professional dress every day of the danged week?

Nowadays a bunch of half baked adolescents in hoodies would be moving fast and
breaking tubes all over the linoleum, is it a wonder there's no diversity left
when all one is allowed to wear is Jeans and printed T's in order to 'fit in'?
T-shirts have no place in the professional world, they're the opposite of
professional

The way I see it, there's a confirmation bias in place here which states
'software developers are a casual lot, to be become one I gotta be casual'

Of all people software developers should be aware of the central limit theorem
as applies to these sorts of heuristics and end the games already, before
we're walking around in togas and flip-flops looking look ancient romans at
the agora

~~~
pts_
To me dressing up is suits as compared to business casual. I hate suits.

~~~
artsyca
Anyway, I view dressing up more as to the `impeccableness` of the outfit and
various outfits can only achieve a certain level before they plateau --

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rusteh1
Don't call your direct reports underlings for a start.

How do you have little in common with them? You've just spent many, many years
performing their role. The key to success in this role, as is the case is most
is to display empathy for those around you. Once you are able to do this, the
correct choices with regards to the administrative particulars of the role
will be easy to see.

Read How to win friends and influence people.

~~~
nobodyandproud
Yes, that’s a classic. It didn’t help me years ago.

But maybe with age, it’ll be easier to practice.

------
artsyca
You should know, as a technical person, that the 'manager' can be considered
an anti-pattern: [https://blog.codinghorror.com/i-shall-call-it-
somethingmanag...](https://blog.codinghorror.com/i-shall-call-it-
somethingmanager/)

You should also know from your education in technical matters that Conway's
principle applies in practice and the software you create will ultimately
reflect the communication structures within your organization

You'd better get hip to the the idea that people expect real human
relationships at work and not some false corporate signalling disguised as
casual engagement

I'm sorry but I don't like your prospects at all and it sounds like you're
arrived at your Peter principle moment

~~~
nobodyandproud
Not very encouraging, but the coding horror post refers to the name. Not the
underlying need for the code.

One of my jobs is to mentor, which is something I liked doing in my prior job
(different company).

I also understand the business reasonably well so hopefully there’s something
I can offer my people.

~~~
artsyca
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here' is my best advice to you fellow, but that
you actually care is a promising sign. Most managers I've had the displeasure
to work with have gamed the heuristics until they've lost all meaning as if
they'd never even stumbled upon Goodhart's law

------
artsyca
I'll explain something as a technical person to another technical person,
assuming you have some level of civility and you weren't born in a cave and
raised by an algorithm

Human beings communicate in many ways outside of words, so you're in luck, you
don't have to have good verbal skills, you have to have better non-verbal
skills

If I were in your position I'd rise to the challenge and understand that
although becoming a manager is not a promotion in many senses of the word,
there is an additional level of responsibility, and some people will consider
you to be in a position of 'leadership' or even a 'boss' whether you like to
admit it or not

As such, it is helpful and humble to apply a semaphore, a visible, definite
cue that you accept this duty and wish to make the most of the opportunity,
and that you're aware that people's careers are now interdependent with yours
even more than before

One traditional cue that has been lost to the sands of time is the humble
necktie -- it has been worn by such giants of computing and computer science
such as Alan Turing, Vint Cerf, and Steve Jobs, Hewlett and Packard..

The reason I call it humble is because it is, contrary to popular opinion,
wearing a necktie is not haughty or entitled, on the contrary it can also be
humbling and genuine if done with a pure heart for the right reasons (of which
I assure you there are plenty --)

It's a way to signal in a definite, visible, nonverbal way that you take your
role seriously and are willing to put in that extra effort and expect more of
yourself than your 'charges' 'underlings' 'reports' 'resources',
'assignments'.. call them what they are: 'people'

You can consider my words of advice to you and I'm sure you'll go with the hoi
polloi and make a million excuses as to why it's inappropriate to wear a tie,
as a manager, as someone who openly admits your own deficiencies

I say it's better to rise to the occasion

You'd think technical people would've figured these things out by now but I
guess in some cases it's one thing to read about things in books and another
to understand context still matters in real life

~~~
nobodyandproud
Thanks.

It definitely helps to have some pointers. I can’t wear a tie, but there are
analogues that accomplish the same.

I took this responsibility on (new company) because I really want to take on
the additional responsibility.

I know I have a steep learning curve—complicated by learning a somewhat
different tech stack—but trial by fire is the only way to see if I can rise up
to the challenge.

~~~
artsyca
Yes, of course you can't

~~~
artsyca
Let me guess at the analogues:

\- dusty old blazer with jeans \- socks that match your watch strap \- aloof
haircut \- sweater vest with dress shirt \- T shirt with tuxedo printed on it
\- pocket square in dusty old sports jacket \- button down dress shirt with
crewneck t-shirt underneath \- canvas sandals \- tonsure \- facial tattoo

anything except an actual in fact necktie is equivocating in my view but ymmv
as the young people say

------
silveroriole
As someone who is similar to your description, my honest advice is to set a
date in the future where you evaluate whether you actually like this role.
Think about what your plan is if you don’t like it (can you step down or will
you have to move companies?). Don’t get trapped in it for years because you
don’t want to give up... if you’re not that interested in people and talking,
this role will probably make you miserable.

------
Trias11
I had a stint as a manager in my company at which i miserably failed. Team
started leveraging technologies I didn't understand and some developer
suddenly develop consistent passive aggressive attitude toward me which i had
to deal with. Upper management eventually scrapped the project and critisized
choice of technologies to build the project.

I survived.

Then my manager gave me a budget to hire outside consultants to do project.

I greatly succeeded in that because i didn't have to play politically correct
diplomacy and follow infinite "proper" BS processes, standups, babysitting
team, sprints, do agile scrum crap, etc...

Basicaly i found consultants, negotiated rate to fit available budget and told
them to do shit or else.

They came back with shit done.

I reported to my boss that shit is done and ready for more.

Rinsed and repeat.

Skunkworks does wonders.

------
openlowcode
Hi,

I think you should start by making sure you set clear directions, and
everybody understands. Then, just also be open to listening when people have
something to say.

A surprisingly low part of your time will be spent as a 'policeman'. Most
people do not try to cheat or be lazy, they just want to understand and be
listened to.

As a manager, you are not the dictator of a small country. You are a sailing
boat captain who is looking at the waves, and asking his team for the state of
the boat.

------
Rainymood
Read: The Making of a Manager by Julie Zhou (VP of product design at FB)

It clearly explains what a manager is and what he is responsible for and how
to be a good manager. It also reads easily as it's a well-written book.

She defines the main job responsibility of a manager as follows: to get better
outcomes from a group of people working together.

------
Irishsteve
Ask your manager / HR for support and training on how to manage.

Read up on 1:1s and ways to manage people performance I.e make sure they are
working in things they are engaged with.

------
seanhunter
Well firstly, congratulations! This is a fun and interesting opportunity to
grow as a human being. You will make mistakes and learn a ton. Your most
important job is to be an enabler/force multiplier supporting the success of
the team.

1) Make sure the team fully understand the goal and are directing their
efforts at the simplest possible way to achieve the objective. Engineers are
famous for spending time on bikeshed arguments that don't matter and making
heroic efforts to do interesting wrong things rather than boring things which
lead to success.

2) Related to the above, but try to ensure that people are pointed at tasks
which enable them to grow while still leading to team success overall. This is
an incredibly interesting optimisation problem that will occupy your mind and
hone your judgement.

3) Act with absolute integrity. Don't succumb to the temptation to weasel out
of tough situations. If you've made a mistake, own up to it. If something is
hard, say it's hard, but don't use that as an excuse to not take the important
decisions you need to take. You got the title now you need to do the job.

4) Your poor verbal skills are going to be present some challenges but here's
some specific tips \- always start with a verbal conversation whenever you can
(even if doing so makes your skin crawl) and immediately follow up by email
setting out specifics and allowing them to comment. This prevents all kinds of
misunderstandings and ensures you are in complete sync. The harder the
conversation, the more important you do it face to face first \- Learn some
patterns which help to ensure people don't misunderstand key conversations. \-
Start with the important part and state it as plainly as possible. \- Don't
attribute intentions, but talk about impact. Say "When you do x, the effect on
the team is y and that's bad because z", not "you're always x, I think that's
because a b c". \- Be as specific as possible about what your expectations are
and what people need to do to fix things. eg "I need to see x by Friday and if
that doesn't happen, the consequences will be y". \- If you're giving someone
a verbal warning or other feedback that could lead to changes to comp, affect
future promotion or lead to dismissal _make sure the person can not possibly
be in any doubt as to the gravity of the situation_ even if it seems heavy-
handed. I have started conversations with "thanks for coming. We need to talk
about something that will affect your future at Yoyodyne Inc." and follow up
with an email ccing HR.

5)Following on from that, don't surprise people. They should always know
whether they are doing well, poorly, what they need to do more, less of, what
your expectations are etc. Don't assume they know. I always assume people can
read my mind and they really cant.

6)Think strategically about your team and how they can be even better than
they are: more/less/different people, more/different support and interaction
with other teams, fewer meetings wasting time/more investment in getting in
sync preventing time wasted doing the wrong things.

7)Think strategically about your people: What they like/hate doing, what they
are good/poor at, where their blindspots are, what the right next step should
be for them. Getting good at this will make you into a superhuman zen master
of a manager.

8)Read "Managing Humans". It's fun and you'll find it helpful, and I consider
Rands (Michael Lopp) to be a friend so you'll be giving him a small royalty.

9)Get really good at interviewing and learn from your hiring mistakes. You're
looking for people who add to your team which means not everyone is going to
have the same strengths and weaknesses. Try to think about where the gaps are
and what the missing jigsaw pieces look like. Recruiters will try to influence
you to hire someone who looks exactly like the last person they placed with
you. That leads over time to a team who all do and think exactly the same.

The fact that you understand the job of a developer is great. Try to avoid the
easy temptation to play up "us vs them" ("team" vs "management" or "product"
vs "sales" or whatever) and instead help your team to see how their work fits
into the broader mission and how the work of non-technical colleagues (eg
salespeople) is important too.

Finally: Having stuff in common with your team is completely unnecessary and
often unhelpful, leading to groupthink and bro-management nonsense in the
worst case. As you grow your team it should become less and less of a
uniculture over time anyway. I make it a rule to seldom if ever socialise with
my team- their downtime/drinks/whatever can be spent moaning about me and
blowing off steam if they want. I'm not trying to be people's friend- this can
be very uncomfortable and as the power dynamic widens can lead to lots of very
difficult situations that are best avoided entirely.

~~~
BOOSTERHIDROGEN
> leading to groupthink and bro-management nonsense in the worst case I'm not
> quite sure how to interpret this, could you give examples ?

