
Chinese scientist who edited twin babies' genes jailed for 3 years - LinuxBender
https://lite.cnn.io/en/article/h_a23f39996d9c239544ae6130989a63f1
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lxe
What is up with these comments? State sponsored behavior modifications?
Eugenics? Public propaganda while hiding some sinister truth? China isn't some
kind of dystopian conspiracy-laden techno-thriller enemy state. The team
simply wanted to sneak this experiment past medical practice laws and
scientific ethics -- they probably would have been fined and punished in a
similar fashion have they done it in the U.S or Europe.

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danmg
People really like sino bashing for some reason.

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Huycfhct
Complete mystery. No human rights abuses in China...

Quick reply with a false equivalency!!

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fasicle
It will be interesting to see if the babies grow up with any side affects from
the editing. DNA is hugely complex and changing some elements of it could
easily effect other parts (I imagine).

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baybal2
Very unlikely. For a conception happening from people around 30 years, they
will be passing 20 to 30 thousand DNA mutations to their offspring, and around
100-150 _genetic_ mutations.

Statistically cas9 is barely worse than just be born to a late parent.

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Barrin92
>Statistically cas9 is barely worse than just be born to a late parent.

Depends on what's being mutated. It seems likely that 1. random mutations with
catastrophic outcome would be negatively selected for evolutionary, 2. Humans
try to meddle with genes that may be disproportionately important.

So I'd put the risk of gene editing quite a bit higher.

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ZhuanXia
Interesting. I still roll to disbelieve on China shunning human enhancement.
The gains are just too great, the fruit too low hanging. Several standard
deviation increases in polygenic traits are on the table, including the most
important economic trait, intellectual ability: [https://www.gwern.net/Embryo-
selection](https://www.gwern.net/Embryo-selection)

Given China’s almost unique state capacity to think long term, history of
eugenic policies in sport, an ironically less Lysenkoist population than
America, and a cultural focus on educational achievement and competition, this
seems overdetermined.

In fact, animal breeders are getting very keen on iterated embryo selection.
So the technology will get investment even in environments where it is illegal
for humans.

We live in interesting times. Even a 2 standard deviation increase would allow
a small population to produce the vast majority of genius-level intellects. 2
standard deviations is on the way low end of what iterated embryo selection
offers. Should we find the causal variants, direct editing offers vastly more.

A world-wide ban on this technology is not on the table. Plan accordingly.

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hutzlibu
Well, if human gene editing really would work, than china (and others) would
not only select for intellect, but also for obedience. Which is scary.

Apart from that I do believe, that in the future human gene editing makes
sense. Once it is actually understood. (until then volunteers are allright
with me, but experimenting with babys ... is a bit off)

Because we are successfully eliminating natural selection in various ways. But
evolving works naturally through selection. Degeneration would be the long
term effect, unless we find other ways. And improving our genes as we see fit
... seems to be a solution.

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r00fus
There was recently a story about a "Paean to Alpha Centauri", so I'll leave
you with an appropriate quote:

"My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack.
Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for
his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire
nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize
someone who cannot feel pain?"

\- Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"

I have no idea how you'd manufacture both a loyal and genius breed - what/whom
are they loyal to?

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zer00eyz
The whole first chapter of Brave New World comes to mind as well...

"Bokanovsky's Process"... x-ray, and alcohol to clones of the "worker class"
to make them slow and stupid to do your bidding.

[https://www.huxley.net/bnw/one.html](https://www.huxley.net/bnw/one.html)

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baybal2
I do feel this follows the same genre as what was going under Xi's hounding
campaigns.

Not content with simple fraud charge, those guys always go for complete
demonisation of the persona accused and self-denunciation.

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cltsang
Surprise surprise, he has 3 million yuans to be fined.

Had he given more of those to the government officials and/or jurisdiction, he
wouldn't even have to face the charges in the first place.

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JadeNB
1 million yuan, apparently:

> Zhang was sentenced to two years in prison and fined 1 million yuan
> ($143,000), while Qin was given a suspended sentence of one year and six
> months in prison and fined 500,000 yuan ($71,600).

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eganist
Whoa, lite.cnn.io is back?

(context:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21804160](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21804160))

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LinuxBender
It comes and goes. I have no idea who maintains it. I check it every day and
it is up at least part of the week. Some weeks it stays up.

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corporate_shi11
Surely I'm not the only one who thinks this sort of research is necessary. The
sooner we are able to genetically engineer improved humans - first eliminating
the incidence of genetic disease and second making overall healthier, happier
and smarter people - the better the world will become.

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JoeAltmaier
Shall they try your children first? Oh so sorry - they died young and in
agony, from unintended side effects. But Science!

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corporate_shi11
Of course we wouldn't try on humans first. Animal trials precede human trials.

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PunchTornado
animals are not humans so something that works on a mouse or a pig could have
unknown bad side effects for humans.

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ggreer
That is a fully general counterargument against animal testing to show the
safeness of any drug or treatment. Clearly humans and other animals have
enough in common such that successful animal trials are evidence of safety in
humans.

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quotz
We are gonna look back on this just how we look back on Giordano Bruno. Future
generations would find it ridiculous that he was jailed for technological
progress and science.

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JoeAltmaier
He was completely irresponsible, did no do what he advertised he would do, and
endangered the health of many people.

Don't get seduced by the dream he was selling. He was in fact a fraud, not a
researcher.

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quotz
You could say that for any invention ever. Even the internet, our greatest
invention so far. However, the net benefit is a non-negative value.

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JoeAltmaier
You can also say that for any fraudulent enterprise ever. He added no benefit
whatsoever, having done wrong what his betters could have done right.

