
Off-Facebook Activity - stclaus
https://www.facebook.com/off-facebook-activity
======
mattkevan
Hmm, a clear history feature that does nothing of the sort. Sounds like
Facebook!

The product manager in charge said: “people were able to mentally connect that
with how their browser controls work, where they can clear their history. We
clearly state that … the information isn’t connected to your account.” [0]

So, they deliberately designed it to make people think it works like a
browser's clear history feature (which does delete everything), but instead,
it 'disconnects' the data (but doesn't delete anything).

Such a bunch of weasels.

[0]
[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/20/facebook-...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/20/facebook-
launches-clear-history-tool-but-it-wont-delete-anything)

~~~
gaogao
That's why it's not called clear history anymore...

~~~
flattone
propose the original comment was more about the behavior of Facebook being
mechanized both at interface and internal product culture to be anti
traditional Western/free thinking human from the bleeding edge of our ever
emerging attention capital economy.

------
6gvONxR4sf7o
Ugh, this just reads so slimy. Like, "Occasionally, businesses share that data
with Facebook." or "We sometimes receive information from businesses that use
third-party data..." Like it just happens to occur. 'Yep, It's just a natural
process, buddy, like the sun rising. It just happens. But we're here to help
you deal with this mysterious problem, because we're the good guys!' There's
so much grossness to opt out of in the modern world. Thank god for GDPR and
CCPA.

------
high_derivative
'The off-Facebook activity setting isn't currently available to you right
now.'

Smart, announcing it without it being usable, so when it's silently rolled out
later people will have forgotten about it. Never change, FB.

~~~
moneil971
It’s rolled out in Ireland, South Korea and Spain to start, more countries are
coming soon.

~~~
high_derivative
Sorry, but my point stands. In Facebook's case, there is absolutely zero
reason to assume good intentions, give the benefit of the doubt, have general
good-will, or believe its employees regarding privacy aims.

~~~
la_barba
Which social media company would you believe regarding privacy?

~~~
fghtr
Purism: [https://librem.one/](https://librem.one/)

~~~
rtkwe
Any social with a monthly fee is not going to hit the same network criticality
that makes Facebook reign supreme. Attracting people to a new service is hard
enough tell them it'll cost 50$ a year and it's hopeless.

~~~
gregknicholson
The network is not the same thing as the provider. Anyone can use Mastodon for
free, so Purism is part of a larger network than just Purism.

------
pesenti
This is the clear history feature that was announced a year ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16969325](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16969325).
See also the engineering post that explains some of the challenges in
implementing this: [https://engineering.fb.com/data-infrastructure/off-
facebook-...](https://engineering.fb.com/data-infrastructure/off-facebook-
activity/)

~~~
bubble_talk
Since no one else has asked yet: You seem like a nice guy who could probably
get a job elsewhere easily. Why are you still at FB?

~~~
krn
Maybe the position of VP of AI at other FAANG companies was already taken, and
there were no other alternatives at the similar level of prestige and
compensation in the job market.

~~~
bubble_talk
>>similar level of prestige

Assuming this isn't sarcasm, this is how the word prestige is defined -
"denoting something that arouses widespread respect or admiration".

Facebook lied to ad buyers (customers) about video views

[https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-
inaccu...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccurate-
video-metrics-inflation-lawsuit)

Facebook lied to users about their spying app

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-
caught-lying-about-spying-on-teenage-users-data-yet-again/#b5b53b142888)

Facebook lied to regulators about its ability to combine user data

[https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-
whatsapp...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-whatsapp-
instagram-third-party-user-data-combined-banned-germany-fco-competition)

Facebook lied to journalists about the CA issue

[https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-
to-j...](https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-to-
journalists-about-how-bad-the-cambridge-analytica-scandal-was)

They don't mind doing mood manipulation experiments

[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-
we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/)

They have absolutely no qualms stooping low enough to steal money from kids

[https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-
fr...](https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-fraud-
scandal-what-parents-need-to-know/)

Based on the definition above, there is only one prestigious job left at
Facebook. Whistle-blower.

~~~
krn
> Assuming this isn't sarcasm, this is how the word prestige is defined -
> "denoting something that arouses widespread respect or admiration".

"Prestige" in terms of the scale of technical challenges that very few other
companies can match at the moment. For many career-focused individuals that is
the only thing that matters.

------
jbaudanza
Lately I've been thinking that the phrase "your data" is a deceptive use of
language. It encourages the fantasy that you have some kind of ownership over
the data that your actions produce. And that you have some natural right to
control how it is used.

The reality is that once data leaves your device, it's not yours anymore. It
will almost certainly be used to track and manipulate you. If someone is
talking about giving you control over "your data", it should be a signal that
they intend to do the opposite. (like the OP).

Maybe we need to give up this fantasy of "your data" before we can embrace
technologies such as ad-blocking, encryption, and frankly abstaining from
using abusive software.

~~~
jasonjayr
Digital rights holders very much hold tightly to the fiction of "your data",
and use the teeth of the law to fight anyone claiming otherwise, or copying it
in a manner they did not authorize.

(IANAL) At what point can we claim that Terms of Service statements are agreed
to under duress, and regain rights to our data as the rightful copyright owner
of such data?

------
typicalfacebk
This seems nearly useless. It doesn't remove the data when you clear it. It
simply "disconnects it from your user ID". But we've seen before that the
collected data has so much personally identifiable information in it, that the
user ID isn't needed anyway. So in reality, this does nothing. And Facebook
absolutely knows this.

~~~
timgilbert
Yeah, if the personal (or shadow) profile has a phone number, and the same
phone number is in the tracked data, removing the personal profile's user ID
seems a little beside the point.

------
tobr
So how will this work if I don’t use a Facebook account?

~~~
givinguflac
That's my question as well, they aren't saying anything about shadow profiles.
It seems like a ploy to get people to create accounts just to 'stop' tracking.

~~~
megous
If you read the article linked in the comments, it looks like this works by
creating a special tracking ID for each user that can be disconnected from the
real UID, if the user chooses to.

So if you don't have FB, presumably you already don't have UID, so you're on
equal footing with Facebook users that use this future. They are tracked, but
tracking data is not connected to their UIDs.

~~~
raquo
If you don't have a facebook account, facebook likely has a shadow profile for
you. Which would carry your phone number, full name, and whatever else they
could extract from your friends' phonebooks and whatever other sources they
use. There is no opting out of that, and there is no opting out of facebook
getting third party data that lets them connect your shadow profile to a
cookie, or to information collected by third parties.

~~~
6gvONxR4sf7o
Yeah, but it's not connected to your UID, so it's okay!

------
beshrkayali
In the video she said that the website sends data about you to Facebook. This
is incorrect. Facebook is the one doing the collecting or the purchasing of
your data from 3rd party collectors.

I try to post this on every Facebook related post: Leave Facebook. You'll
thank yourself a year from now.

~~~
olliej
If you leave facebook you can't access the "clear history" feature, so they
can track you and keep that information forever.

Facebook is a morally bankrupt company and the only real fix is to black hole
their _many_ domains.

~~~
beshrkayali
Yes of course. Blackholing is step 2.

------
cameronbrown
This is a good step but it'll probably be something that won't be pushed
widely by Facebook themselves but pointed to by them to regulators, saying
'look, we do care!'

~~~
CaptainZapp
_This is a good step_

I disagree. It's a typical Facebook step.

Sneaky, shifty and weasely.

------
llamataboot
All I want is a clear answer from someone at facebook. Why can't I choose to
delete data about me from your database? I don't even nec need to be able to
see it or do it at a granular level, though that would be nice. All I want to
be able to do is say delete this.

Can I delete a private message from your database?

Can I delete your record of a status I wrote from your database?

Can I delete access logs from a website that was using a FB pixel from your
database?

------
tareqak
I'm glad Facebook chose the name that they did. Hopefully enough people will
ask, " _why does Facebook care about my activity off Facebook?_ "

~~~
gregknicholson
If you don't read it too closely, it sounds like an advert for the very
concept of doing activities away from Facebook, which made me chuckle.

“Exciting features include: Cycling through woods! Reading a story in a book
made of paper! Now _you_ can control what you see, do and think!”

------
kd3
I just recently stopped using Facebook, Instagram and Whatsapp. Taking
everyone close to me to Signal.

------
elicash
Facebook deleted a ton of the really valuable ad settings controls I used to
prevent bad advertiser behavior somewhat recently. I'd rather have that
ability to block advertisers uploading data I didn't give them than this
feature.

And all they'd have to do is turn it back on.

------
ben7799
Wait how can I set my preferences for the activity they're tracking on me if I
don't have an account?

I'm not under any illusions they're not trying to track me despite me not
having an account with them.

~~~
daphneokeefe
We know that FB tracks us just as much as the people who have accounts. But we
have less access and fewer rights.

~~~
CaptainZapp
Actually if you're in the EU you have more rights (but may have a hard time
enforcing them).

Data collection, according to the GDPR, requires a reason. If I have a
Facebook account you're in a relationshio with the company and so they can
argue that you agree to providing your data (it's all there in the 12000, or
so, "User Agreement".

If you do not use Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp you are not in a business
relationship with the company and they have no right to collect and store your
data.

I have a feeling that there's a very nasty legal fight with the EU brewing
here in a few years time.

------
newscracker
As a good practice, does the user have to go to this page and “clear history”
everyday, akin to brushing one’s teeth? Who’d even do that (not taking about
brushing one’s teeth)?

Why not make it like a permanent toggle that says “never associate off-
Facebook activity with my account (to advertise to me and sell me stuff I
don’t need)”?

I don’t see anyone being creeped out or annoyed by “backpack ads” (as seen in
that dramatization video of this feature) and still being ok with seeing
continuous creepy and annoying ads for shoes or something else later.

------
dredmorbius
"Disconnected".

Data Re-Identification:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-
identification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-identification)

------
kbos87
This sounds so similar to the engineering of the notifications UI they have
done over the past few years. When they say they’ve “given users more
control”, yes, they’ve added toggles to that screen, but they’ve engineered
the whole thing to take control away and force people into an all or nothing
decision where Facebook has the ability to serve you a notification when they
feel like you should be engaging.

------
samschooler
So I've all but given up on trusting these big corporations to delete all of
my data when I turn off data collection/clear history.

However, I think these activity tools are extremely useful. They allow me to
see all (or at least most) of what Facebook/Google has on me and it allows me
to practice and implement strategies that prevent the corps from collecting
the data in the first place.

------
shafyy
Honestly, it pisses me off that I even have to THINK about this.

------
danpalmer
Translations from their FAQs:

> If I disconnect my activity, will I stop seeing ads?

No.

> Does disconnecting my activity mean that it's deleted?

No.

> Why am I seeing businesses I don't recognise?

Because they are creepier than you thought.

------
werber
Who is going to see this that isn't a nerd checking out places like HN like
all of us? This doesn't seem like a real effort to aid user privacy, if it was
it should be something that pops up in every facebook user's face, not an
article you have to search for.

Facebooks attempts at making up for their mistakes almost always leave me
feeling worse about the company

------
mosselman
For Android, privacytools.io advises Blokada. It is an app that runs a sort of
local pihole which enables it to block trackers in any app, not just a web
browser. I don’t have an android phone myself, but I was very impressed when I
tried it out on someone else’s.

Is there a similar for iOS that anyone is aware of?

~~~
skonteam
DNSCloak ([https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-
client/id1...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-
client/id1452162351)) seems to do the job.

~~~
mosselman
Thanks! I have been trying it out and it seems to work well.

------
romaaeterna
Here is a dirty GDPR secret: HDFS is an append-only filesystem. It's way too
hard to delete things in big data projects, so they get disconnected instead.

------
roddux
>If you'd like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it
will not be associated with you personally. Specifically no mention that they
will delete the data, helpfully combined with no mention that it's trivial to
deanonymise such data.

TL;DR: This is a bullshit PR piece to assuage worries that Facebook data-
mining the internet. They still are. Move along.

------
nappy
Facebook just happens to get sent data... yeah, more like Facebook buys data.
And invests heavily in tools to make it easier for its customers to send
Facebook data.

------
rolltiide
> If you’d like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it
> will not be associated with you personally.

“But we still keep it and the entire unique fingerprint”

------
gukov
Social media has became incredibly complex. Facebook now has a mini-site to
explain the purpose of a single button.

------
sandeshd
What will happen to people who are already opted out of ads based on data from
facebook business partners.

------
olliej
Please create a facebook account so we can track you^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h help
"you" can "control" how we make ads from our abuse of your privacy _.

_ We aren't going to stop tracking you, and "bugs" and "inadvertent" changes
may "accidentally" reset your settings.

------
sgt101
Firefox, firefox, firefox!

((facebook containers -> it looks after you))

ironically, posted with Chrome

------
tsjq
as a non-FB user, do these browser settings keep FB from tracking me?

block all 3rd party cookies, block all trackers, clear cookies on exit, uBlock
Origin extension,

and blocking FB related sites in /etc/hosts file

~~~
bravoetch
It's hard to know for sure, and I think you're doing most of what you could
do. More layers would be using TOR browser, noscript, and using a VPN for Al
connections on your phone and other devices.

------
plodman
How does this work in terms of GDPR? If it’s only rolled out in a few
countries, surely this is Facebook admitting they collect this data but we
have no way to access it right now?

Shouldn’t this incur a rather heavy fine?

------
lwh
Does this block react CDN hits?

------
ProAm
So creepy.

------
winternett
Hey Guys,

We here at Facebook realized you don't trust our apps, so we made another app
that makes you think our apps are safe. Despite this just being another app
within our portfolio of tracking tools. Please download and install, otherwise
the other apps may not work eventually. Trust us. ಠ_ಠ

~~~
_bxg1
And just look at that lovely, friendly new shade of blue! There's no way a
company using that color can mean any harm!

~~~
mattkevan
And such an open and trustworthy font. No one using a typeface like that can
be shady, surely?

------
pictur
Why do people keep using facebook? I don't want to see this shit anymore.

~~~
ilikehurdles
It's for kids to share memes under fake profiles and boomers to share fake
news under real profiles.

A hard cut from facebook is surprisingly easy. The biggest challenge is
getting over the mentality of fear that it will somehow be challenging.

~~~
Semaphor
It’s to keep a loose connection with distant people and organize private
events and find out about non-personal events and happenings.

Just because the people you added on facebook filled it with bullshit, doesn’t
mean it’s like that for everyone.

I’d love to get away from them, but I have yet to find a workable alternative.

~~~
ilikehurdles
My connections I cared about simply switched to other forms of communication.
Private events, I still find out about. People care about others attending
their events (quelle surprise). I just now keep in touch with others in a more
personal way instead.

"Non-personal events and happenings" are something whose value is worth
thinking about. They were one of those things I'm very happy to have optimized
away. If it's important, I'll find out about it. Rephrased, I will not make it
my responsibility to find out about something you yourself didn't find
important enough to tell me about. Reacting to a post is neither taking part
in the event nor engaging with the people involved in it. It's this
artificial, vicarious interaction that people convince themselves is a
valuable addition to their life when in reality it's a fleeting sentence on an
infinitely scrolling newsfeed. It replaced the tv show we'd have on in the
background but never quite watch. Something mindless yet just engaging enough
to take our focus away from doing absolutely nothing at all.

I used to spend my time on facebook finding out about these "non-personal
events and happenings", like my cousin's husband's sister's graduation that I
never would have attended or been invited to anyway, my aunt's trip to the
beach, and some anniversary party a friend and her partner had. Was any of
that important? The only difference between being on facebook and being off
facebook, is that the former is full of one-way communication where I show
minimal engagement with 90% of people's statuses, while the other is a two-way
communication where I personally socialize with the 50% of those people who
added value to my life. Magically, almost as if humans have evolved to be able
to communicate in more ways than one with no effort, I still find out about
the significant events.

In my newly-found free time I've become a board member of a large local non-
profit, met more of my neighbors and a large chunk of my local government
officials, and found time to regularly exercise hard and explore the outdoors.

~~~
jpamata
I don't understand where this Facebook takes up a lot of one's time is coming
from. You can always minimize it further. Nowadays, it just takes about 2-10
minutes of my lunchtime. I log in, skim the notifications for events and
invitations, and that's it for the day. I don't check a post unless someone in
real life tells me about it. While reacting to a post might not seem engaging,
I'd say leaving a comment to a friend is. The only feature that kills my time
is messenger, but that's because it's pretty much the de facto platform for
communication in my country. Apps like telegram, wechat, and whatsapp aren't
popular here since they ask for your phone number. The traditional phone call
and text are expensive, especially when you're travelling internationally. It
also becomes a problem when your contact switches their number. Messenger is
free, can be used without the phone, no collecting of phone numbers required -
just an easy friend request, and you don't have to worry about spam from
people you don't know.

~~~
Semaphor
I said it before on HN and it’s still my impression. Those who say loudly how
liberating it is to be off facebook always seem to have had an addiction of
some level or another.

Personally the most I read on FB is when I’m on the loo and already checked
HackerNews ;)

------
drinchev
Facebook can receive whatever they deserve, but let's clap our hands on their
development team. React is what currently puts bread on my table and it seems
like it will do so for a long time. I can't think of a single big win from a
social network in spending their money for R&D than FB ( look at LinkedIn for
example ).

~~~
sgt101
Kafka?

~~~
drinchev
Good point! :) Thanks for sharing that.

> Apache Kafka is an open-source stream-processing software platform developed
> by LinkedIn and donated to the Apache Software Foundation, written in Scala
> and Java. [1]

1:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka)

