
Can a $9 Computer Spark a New Wave of Tinkering and Innovation? - evo_9
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/01/21/463592334/can-a-9-computer-spark-a-new-wave-of-tinkering-and-innovation
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zoidb
Sigh, I believe the answer is "no". Cost is not the problem with tinkering. I
don't think access to computing gizmos is an issue at all in the US. For me I
surfed in on a wave of tinkering and innovation by building things that my
friends were impressed by and played with (programming calculators, text
adventure games, even some electronics). Where is it now? I'm not sure (and I
would love to know) how kids these days are building things that are able to
compete for valuable attention span. Especially if they are going head to head
with psychologists who design smartphone games.

~~~
superuser2
I think children having _their own_ general purpose computing devices is
pretty important. Time sharing and the obligation not to break "the family
computer" make it pretty useless as a tinkering platform, unless your parents
are technical and comfortable with it. The individual devices children own are
compilation targets, maybe, but they can't run text editors and compilers.

Cost _of the actual computer_ is not the problem. All of these $50, $20, $5
computers conveniently ignore that fact that you also need $150+ for a
monitor, USB hub, keyboard, mouse, WiFi adapter, etc. This quickly raises the
price from "something a low-income family can easily spend on a child" to "no
fucking way." I found OLPC a lot more compelling.

Still, I'm thankful for cheap hardware on which to run pirate AirPlay targets
and homebrew IP cameras :).

~~~
Hupriene
> Cost of the actual computer is not the problem. All of these $50, $20, $5
> computers conveniently ignore that fact that you also need $150+ for a
> monitor

Chip has an answer to that.[1] Not sure whether it is really usable enough for
kids to work on, but I'd did a lot of work on my TI calculator, which didn't
even have a qwerty keyboard.

[1] [http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip](http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip)

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tyingq
Olimex, who are in a strong position to know, say that the cpu alone
(Allwinner R8M) costs $16, direct from Allwinner[1], in volume. That's just
the CPU. None of the other components, the PCB, the labor, etc.

The $9 price just isn't sustainable. It appears the the CHIP team is doing a
combination of padding shipping prices, and probably taking a loss for the
sake of initial marketing.

[1][https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/how-to-get-in-the-
ne...](https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/how-to-get-in-the-news-tell-
people-that-you-will-make-and-sell-something-which-cost-you-20-for-9/)

~~~
lorenzhs
This article gets brought up in every post about CHIP. Maybe there's something
to it but coming from a competitor this sounds a bit fishy. It was also before
the Raspberry Pi Zero (made in the UK!) launched, which lacks quite a few of
the CHIP's features but at $5 sets a high bar in any case.

~~~
tyingq
The bom cost for the RPI zero is clearly lower. No flash, no wifi, much
cheaper cpu, etc.

It is almost a certainty that the BOM cost alone for the CHIP exceeds $9.
That's the unassembled pile of parts.

------
saintfiends
For the lazy:

    
    
       - 1 GHz processor
       - 512 MB RAM
       - 4 GB Storage (No SD card support)
       - WiFi b/g/n and Bluetooth 4.0
       - Composite output by default but HDMI and VGA are supported with an adapter (Sold separately)
       - 1 USB Port and 1 USB Micro with OTG
       - 8 GPIO

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
If you're not using the display pins, you can use at least 23 more pins as
GPIO.

------
ck2
We've had cheap computers in every generation, remember the Sinclair ZX81 ?
($100 when a PC was $1500+)

What sparks tinkering and innovation is open minds and creative thought
processes.

(as well as laws that don't get in the way of tinkering)

Those kinds of minds find the tools, not the other way around.

~~~
protomyth
> We've had cheap computers in every generation, remember the Sinclair ZX81 ?

I would dispute that. That was the 8-bit era. An entry level programmable
computer in the sub $100 price range has been missing for a long time.

~~~
ck2
A $10 smartphone today is as powerful if not more powerful than most of these
attempts at low end computing.

Just needs a keyboard and HDMI output.

~~~
ghkbrew
Do $10 smartphones exist today?

~~~
ck2
In the USA there is a $10 smartphone sale practically every week of one brand
or another.

This week: [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/tracfone-alcatel-onetouch-
pixi-g...](http://www.bestbuy.com/site/tracfone-alcatel-onetouch-pixi-glitz-
no-contract-cell-phone-black/4427501.p)

It's very low end for a smartphone but can run almost any android apk and use
wifi even without airtime. Some $10 phones can be rooted and then you almost
have a full linux-like system.

For $20 you can get quad-core with 1GB of ram:
[http://www.walmart.com/ip/Straight-Talk-LG-Prepaid-
Destiny-L...](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Straight-Talk-LG-Prepaid-
Destiny-L21G-Smartphone/45822123)

~~~
protomyth
I'm not sure a $10 smartphone is going to be bought for a elementary school
child to learn to program on. Nontechnical parents are not going to buy
something like that, root it, and teach their child to program. The glory of
the 8-bit era was the ready to go nature of the programming environment and
the cheap price.

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DaveSapien
I really don't have any faith in the company, I have an otto camera. They
abandoned all support and development for it as soon as it was shipped to
backers. (one update) Felt like, "we've got your money, here is the minimal
amount of stuff to keep us legal....now go buy or other stuff"

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tracker1
The problem with these kind of articles and releases is that for most people,
$9 vs $100 isn't that big of a difference... At least in the U.S. and other
first-world countries where an initiative kid can earn either in a relatively
short period of time, and most parents could gift it to them if not.

As others have and will point out, it isn't just $9, there's the need for
another system to be able to read documentation, and work on while doing
projects on said $9 computer... there's also the peripheral costs, kb, mouse,
monitor which would likely run it up to close to $100 anyway.

I think the issue is sparking ideas and interest in younger people... most are
more interested in writing phone/tablet apps than they are in touch with
tinkering. There's a reason that Radio Shack had to shift gears, and in turn
died off...

Don't get me wrong, the availability of cheap computers with decent i/o pins
is really nice, and for anyone interested in integrating electronics and
software, there's never been a better time... But having yet another <$100
option really isn't going to spur extra tinkering at this point... And getting
exposure into schools is particularly difficult given that most people with
the skills to actually work and teach for these things are likely employed at
a much higher salary than they'd get in a K-8 role (at least 2-3x).

~~~
noam87
> The problem with these kind of articles and releases is that for most
> people, $9 vs $100 isn't that big of a difference.

What world do you live in? Median _household_ income in the U.S is $51k.

~~~
whoiskevin
I think you are missing the entire picture. I have to agree that it is not a
big enough cost difference because if you go spend the $9 and then try and use
it without $100 more in equipment or already existing computer you will be
disappointed. So it simply is not going to spur that much more interest.

~~~
ddingus
Actually, that isn't true.

People lacking basic means can often work, trade, scrounge, repair, etc... to
get a working, usable system. And they will do that too.

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brianclements
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not the price of the electronics
(which are very cheap), or the availability of them (they are plentiful), or
even the knowledge to learn (this is the age of the Internet on mobile
devices), but is actually the price of another thing that that is going up:
time (and by extension, focus).

I feel that students have to start planning for college earlier and earlier
these days, even planning how courses line up as early as middle school. When
all academic scheduling decisions (sports, classes, extra curriculars, clubs,
etc.) are always viewed through the lens of college admission, there is very
little time to turn brains off and just play with the knowledge they've gained
thus far. If an activity isn't directly linked to job training of one or two
strong focuses that could potentially lead to a major in college and a job
afterward, they aren't seriously considered as an activity worth spending time
on, and that is a pity.

I would add lastly that as a counterbalance to this extreme need for academic
focus, instead of seeking invigorating hobbies to which students at the end of
the day will lack the energy for, they instead seek more mindless and passive
activities which are readily available on their mobile devices. The harder
they work, the dumber they want their hobbies to be.

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LordKano
It certainly lowers the bar to entry.

Somewhere out there, there's a kid with an idea that will one day become the
next Zuckerberg or Woz. Whereas it was next to impossible for my peers to
convince our parents that we needed a $3,000 computer setup just for learning,
these young people can earn the money for their own supplies with a summer
job.

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tlrobinson
I think the biggest improvement of the CHIP over the Raspberry Pi, besides the
price, is it's got on-board WiFi and flash storage, and is pre-loaded with an
OS. Those are nearly always the first 3 things I need to take care of when
starting a new Raspberry Pi project.

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antoniuschan99
I think these computers (Rasp Pi, CHIP, Beaglebone, BBC Micro) are doing what
the one laptop per child couldn't do. That is to be the affordable computer to
the 3rd world. Almost everyone in the west can afford a $100-$500 computer,
but that is still beyond the reach of many people in the 3rd world. That means
basic computer and programming skills will be within reach for a large number
of the population in the world.

Also, currently, most of the development work available are for PCs, Mobile,
and Tablet devices. These chips are the building blocks of the Internet of
Things, meaning development work needed in the future will go beyond just
programming for PCs, Mobile, and Tablet devices.

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barkingcat
I think the biggest positive aspect of widespread distribution of raspberry pi
and devices like it is to ward off the fear from adults in the school system.

If the school board comes out and says, we're purchasing these things for an
entire district - this is an official movement from the school board top down
- the governor signed off on this and we're getting these out to every single
kid in our schools, teachers can no longer point to microelectronics and say
that it's a bomb.

Hopefully fewer students get sent to the police station for tinkering with
electronics.

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rorykoehler
People do know it's possible to get $1 ones on alibaba?

~~~
lorenzhs
an Arduino clone is something like $1.70 on aliexpress and has a fraction of
the processing power so it's not exactly a fair comparison

~~~
blhack
An arduino clone is almost infinitely more useful as a teaching tool than
these arm based computers are, though.

Source: I teach people to program microcontrollers every day.

~~~
TickleSteve
completely agree, the complexity of Linux actively hinders learning. Much
easier and useful to learn on a bare-bones microcontroller.... I certainly
learned on a 4MHz z80 and have a much more in depth understanding of software
and hardware as a result.

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ArkyBeagle
I believe I would have been better off with better math courses in junior high
and high school than I would have been learning computing. Perhaps that's too
path dependent, and based too much on the sheer level of pain experienced as
an undergrad having to learn it properly.

But I was hacking (analog) electronics ( at a very shallow level ) so maybe
the little RasPi class machines make up for that.

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ageofwant
A $9 computer that cannot be shipped for less than $10 is a $19 computer.

~~~
lowboy
From getchip.com, shipping to Canada comes out to $6.22 for a single CHIP, and
$11 for 5 CHIPs

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mcguire
The VGA/HDMI converters ($10/$15) cost more than the computer. (!)

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jedberg
> And unlike Microsoft products, CHIP has both open-source software (Linux)
> and hardware.

That seems like an unnecessary dig.

~~~
bluehazed
Not really? It's a valid point, it's generally easier to tinker with open
source software.

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mblumberg
NPR covering the news in true NPR style... Five years too late.

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spullara
No

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gregimba
No

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mrcactu5
doesn't this still require a monitor and keyboard? they should provide
"starter-kits" for the uninitiated... but yeah $9 once you know how to use it
is great.

~~~
corysama
Self-contained handheld version. $49

[http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip](http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip)

