
A little-known airline has linked Cairo and Tel Aviv for decades - CaptainZapp
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/air-sinai-ghost-flight
======
9nGQluzmnq3M
I've actually flown Air Sinai once! And not from Cairo to Tel Aviv, but to
Yasser Arafat International aka Gaza Airport (GZA).

The plane was a standard 737, but completely unmarked, sitting in a remote bus
bay far from the terminal. Load was abysmal, maybe 20 or so people. Service
was the usual surly Egyptair (aka "Misery Air", _Misr_ being the Arabic name
for Egypt) experience, but it was a short flight of only an hour or so.

On arrival at GZA, we were driven over to the nearby Rafah border, herded into
a holding area, instructed to identify and open our luggage, and then moved to
a different room to be frisked and interrogated by Israeli security while
another set of guards pawed through the bags, sight unseen. All staff involved
were very much not in a hurry, and all in all, it took about four hours (!)
for the 20 of us to go from wheels on the ground to getting into the airport
terminal, through Palestinian immigration and then Gaza proper. And I didn't
even get a passport stamp. (I did get one from the Erez border when crossing
by land into Israel proper later, which raised some eyebrows later when
leaving Israel...)

At the time, the airport served around 2 flights per day (Cairo and Amman,
Jordan, IIRC), but the departures board optimistically listed a whole slew of
fantasy flights from all over the Arab world and Europe (Milan! Istanbul!). I
remember seeing a school group on a tour through this airport and thinking
that odds are very high that all these kids here will live their lives without
ever leaving this 40x6 km slice of land (large chunks of which are off-limits
buffer areas), packed with 2 million Palestinians living cheek to jowl.

Shortly thereafter in 2000, the al-Aqsa Intifada started and the airport was
bombed by Israeli fighters. It's been in ruins ever since.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat_International_Ai...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat_International_Airport)

~~~
fortran77
There's plenty of other places where people are living much denser:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_popul...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population_density)

Monaco's density is higher, and it's considered a paradise:

[https://www.infoplease.com/world/population-
statistics/popul...](https://www.infoplease.com/world/population-
statistics/population-density-square-mile-countries)

And many people can and do take vacations. In fact, that's how coronoavirus
entered gaza -- from someone returning from Pakistan on Vacation:
[https://www.geo.tv/latest/278852-gazas-two-confirmed-
coronav...](https://www.geo.tv/latest/278852-gazas-two-confirmed-coronavirus-
patients-attended-tablighi-ijtema-in-pakistan)

~~~
yoavm
It's unclear to me what are you trying to suggest. The parent comment never
said Gaza was the densest place, or even that density == hell. Are you saying
that Gaza is a sparsely populated paradise?

Yeah, some people take vacations. It's often impossible to do, and those
people are by far not even close to being the majority.

~~~
fortran77
The post I was responding to said:

> that odds are very high that all these kids here will live their lives
> without ever leaving this 40x6 km slice of land (large chunks of which are
> off-limits buffer areas), packed with 2 million Palestinians living cheek to
> jowl.

I was giving some other information. Don't assume bad intent. One of my 4
grandparents was born in Gaza City in 1909, and left in 1929 when he was
kicked out.

------
MichaelApproved
The article said the planes were unmarked but I went looking for pictures
anyway and found some photos.

Here’s one from the 1980s with markings. [https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-
Sinai/Boeing-737-266-Adv...](https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-
Sinai/Boeing-737-266-Adv/0472889/L)

Unmarked photos are here. [https://onemileatatime.com/air-
sinai/](https://onemileatatime.com/air-sinai/)

------
z303
A trip report of flying them

[https://youtu.be/v8O0WUwiweQ](https://youtu.be/v8O0WUwiweQ)

------
LatteLazy
I wonder if it's profitable...

~~~
chx
The prices are crazy high but also I would suspect a route which props up
peace at the Middle East would have no trouble finding secret government
subsidiaries...

~~~
wolfgke
> I would suspect a route which props up peace at the Middle East would have
> no trouble finding secret government subsidiaries...

I am not so sure about that.

If all (or at least most) sides wanted peace, we already would have. The
problem is: all sides only want peace _on their terms_ and there do not seem
to exist "common peace conditions" which all (or at least most) involved
countries and organizations are okay with.

~~~
toyg
You are making a general point, but this is an actual issue in a treaty two
countries already signed and that both sides (by which I mean Egyptian and
Israeli governments, nobody else) want to stay valid. Chances are that there
are dedicated budget items somewhere in the bowels of both governments, far
from prying eyes.

~~~
chx
> by which I mean Egyptian and Israeli governments, nobody else

Oh there a LOT of other players, most importantly the USA here. If you want to
paint a 10000 ft picture of the last few decades, it's the USA stuffing the
Israel with enough money so the real crazies can't raise to power. Unleashing
the full military might of Israel in a traditional war again would be
absolutely horrible: they have armed unmanned ground vehicles, main battle
tanks which can intercept even the most advanced MANPADS and more.

~~~
dogma1138
I'm pretty sure that's the US policy for Egypt and Jordan, US aid to Israel is
about 2% of its GDP and comes with a lot of strings attached, Egypt gets
pretty much the same deal. Jordan relies heavily on US support for stability.

Israel's public has a very strong aversion to casualties, much more so than
when the state's survival was at risk.

The Israeli public couldn't tolerate the 120 soldiers killed in the 2nd
Lebanon war there is absolutely nothing to back that there is any political
will in the general public or the politicians to pursue an actual traditional
war not to mention that there is no one to wage war against.

Waging war against Egypt would serve no strategic purposes Israel is rather
happy selling them gas.

Waging war against Jordan would be taking over 8 or so million Palestinians
which again for what purpose?

Lebanon it's in Israel best interests for Lebanon to sort it's shit out
internally the last time it formed an alliance with the Free Lebanon
Government during the Israeli-Maronite alliance it didn't end up well. Lebanon
is slowly but surely heading into another civil war and Israel would likely
stay the fuck out of it unless Hezbollah would drag it in.

Syria is a failed state there is absolutely nothing for Israel to gain by
going beyond the Golan Heights that provide a good natural defensive barrier
and Israel has absolutely nothing to gain by potentially dragging Russia into
the conflict since Syria is their only open warm water port.

Yes Israel has a very capable army, it likely cannot be matched in a true
traditional war in the region but it has nothing to gain from waging one.

Israel always had goals in each conflict and war it engaged in (regardless if
you agree with their goals or not) and unless there will be a drastic
geopolitical shift in Egypt, Jordan, Syria or Lebanon there would be no reason
to wage an all out war against any of them.

P.S. MANPADS stands for man portable air defense systems these aren't anti
tank weapons. While Israel has deployed active defense systems for ground
vehicles these surely won't be used against MANPADS.

~~~
chx
> The Israeli public couldn't tolerate the 120 soldiers killed in the 2nd
> Lebanon war

as if a (un)healthy dose of good ole' propaganda couldn't fix that

~~~
dogma1138
I don’t know what you’ve been smoking but the bulk of the Israeli army relies
on reservists they literally cannot go to war without it having a major
economic impact.

Also the benefit of having a mandatory conscription is that nearly every
household would be affected all of a sudden propaganda doesn’t work anymore.

------
sam_goody
There was also a bus route from Tel Aviv to Cairo, opened in 1977 as a result
of another peace treaty between Egypt and Israel.

It didn't last very long (a few years), though you can still technically go
the whole way by multiple busses.

[https://www.egged.co.il/Days-Article-10228-A-tale-of-two-
cit...](https://www.egged.co.il/Days-Article-10228-A-tale-of-two-cities-Egged-
s-historic-line-to-Cairo.aspx)

------
throw93232
Such ghost flights are relatively common, for example from London

[https://simpleflying.com/the-story-behind-london-
heathrows-g...](https://simpleflying.com/the-story-behind-london-heathrows-
ghost-flights/)

~~~
furyg3
This is quite different. The ghost flights you describe are empty flights,
only flown with a skeleton crew to avoid losing an airport slot. The ghost
airline in the article is one that flies actual paying passengers, but isn't
advertised, has no markings, has (basically) no online presence, and isn't
clearly listed on airport departure screens.

~~~
ForHackernews
Sounds similar to Janet,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_(airline)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_\(airline\))
the non-existent airline that flies area 51 employees from Vegas.

~~~
notahacker
Again, similar but different. Janet is private jets owned and run by a
government which only people invited by that government can travel on.

Air Sinai is a regular passenger airline flying regular scheduled passenger
flights available to the public using Egyptair staff and aircraft, just one
which is only kept open for political purposes and isn't actively marketed
[except, apparently by an overseas GSA] due to conflicting political
sensitivities.

