
Rogue Airbnb listings still exist where short-term rentals aren't allowed - walterbell
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-airbnb-covert-listings-banned-units-1.5066673
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stephencoyner
Recently I rented an Airbnb that turned out to be nothing like the pictures.
The building that the apartment was in was falling apart, stank of cigarettes
and was on a sharp slant to the point where my suitcase would roll if I left
it standing in the apartment.

I left immediately, booked a hotel and messaged the host for a refund - they
said no. I had to get Airbnb involved and they asked if I would accept a
partial refund. I said no.

The Host asked me to cancel my trip, but I refused because I would have to
agree to not accept a refund of more than $30.

At the end of my stay I was asked to leave a review and I left an honest,
critical review of the apartment. Airbnb immediately messaged me asking if I'd
accept a full refund to take down my review.

This is the kind of sketchy activity that will keep me booking hotels instead.
I now have no faith in a place with all good reviews, as guests who leave
critical reviews probably removed them for refunds similar to me.

~~~
lugg
I thought Airbnb was supposed to cover the cost of your alternative
accommodation in this scenario as well?

If airbnb isn't giving you a full refund without removing a negative review
just issue a charge back.

No way they will fight it with that behavior on record.

~~~
dillondoyle
One should get a refund of the canceled booking but my last experience is they
did NOT cover the extra cost of booking alternative hotel.

Had a NYE reservation in London canceled hours before my flight. Had to get
hotel rooms ( I brought my parents on the trip ).

AirBnb support absolutely useless in rebooking (and no options, just one not
close to similar listing repeating multiple times from different 'hosts').

What makes me so angry though was that a phone support agent told me they
would give me 50% of a few days of the airbnb reservation cost to cover extra
costs. I asked them to push too manager to cover full difference. But instead
of offering to cover costs, over chat/email they claimed the phone person
never made a promise and only paid me $85 (the difference was multiple
thousands).

I asked for the recording but they never responded. I looked into arbitration
but the cost/benefit of my time wasted doesn't work out.

~~~
ashelmire
Why not have your bank issue a chargeback? Takes like 5 minutes, never had any
issues with it.

~~~
dillondoyle
Maybe I wasn't clear. I got a refund for the price of canceled airbnb. But I
had to get two hotels rooms, same day over NYE. Which was an extra few
thousand on top of the canceled amount. This is the contention, where someone
no phone told me an amount but then in the end I only got $85.

~~~
ashelmire
Ah, thanks for the clarification, I misread it.

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randomacct3847
It’s crazy to me that Airbnb is this massive company that derives most of
their revenue from illegal services. What other multi-billion dollar co is
remotely comparable?

Agree last thing I want to deal with is this feeling I’m not supposed to be
there when I enter a random condo complex in a new city.

~~~
wyattpeak
I wouldn't say they derive most of their revenue illegally without more data,
but regardless it's hardly alone. The ride-sharing services were the first of
the modern companies push this model of "implement first, work out legalities
later". Many of the scooter- and bike-rental outfits have operated on similar
profiles.

Arguably the granddaddy of all of them was PayPal, which substantially strayed
into banking territory without ever getting the appropriate accreditation.

Honestly, it seems to me the way much of this legislation moves forward. I
don't know that I love companies flouting laws, but when those laws are kept
in place against public interest (thinking especially of the state protection
of taxi services), it can be hard to muster any serious antipathy towards
them.

~~~
randomacct3847
Uber and Airbnb are completely different beasts. At least rideshare benefits
both residents and visitors alike and taxis are universally hated for high
rates and fees.

How does Airbnb benefits residents of a city outside of landlords/slumlords?
In markets with low housing supply they crowd out housing for permanent
residents and create safety issues for neighbors. I would be pissed if I lived
in an apartment complex with a steady stream of random strangers coming in and
out because my neighbor rented it out on Airbnb.

Residential zoning laws _are_ in the public interest. A city that made it
legal for any home, apartment, or condo to be turned into a mini hotel does
not benefit the people that live there at all.

~~~
nostrademons
They benefit their customers (who have a much wider and often cheaper
selection available than the old hotel industry) and their hosts (many of whom
keep their finances afloat through AirBnB revenue, or have been able to enjoy
life-changing increases in their standard of living - like sending the kids to
college - because of it). It's detrimental to the neighbors, who have to put
up with a stream of transients, parties, noise, etc; and of course to the
existing hotel industry (though many of them are adopting AirBnB as a booking
platform).

Similarly, zoning laws are beneficial to resident homeowners and detrimental
to renters, potential startups, real estate speculators.

There is no uniform "public interest". Any significant policy will have some
people it helps and some people it hurts.

~~~
randomacct3847
When I look at Airbnbs in SF, NY etc they are regularly more expensive than
hotels with none of the benefits of a hotel.

Why should a city prioritize the needs of landlords and visitors over most of
their constituents? Would love to see the number of mayors who love Airbnb. I
can’t imagine there are many, if any.

~~~
duado
They can’t be more expensive than hotels, worse than hotels, and still get
booked without offering something of value, unless they’re just a bait and
switch operation.

~~~
chillydawg
I suspect there are a group of Airbnb users who never look at hotels at all
because "they're more expensive" and so higher price worse units can and
probably do get sold.

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reustle
I've stayed at quite a lot of Airbnb over 4 years of traveling and every time
this happened I reported it to Airbnb and they were usually quick to help me
get into another place. The service got worse as the years went on, though.

I basically said I didn't feel comfortable being stalked by hotel / lux
apartment lobby staff every time I entered and left the building. Some
buildings were worse than others.

~~~
dawhizkid
Shouldn't you know that there's a good chance a listing _is_ illegal and/or
against HOA rules if you're booking a place in an apartment complex or condo?

I rarely book Airbnb's, but the only places that make sense as far as being
"least likely to be against the law" are single family homes or Airbnbs run by
a professional rental management co.

~~~
reustle
There are (were?) many lux condo buildings in Bangkok, at least a few years
ago, that had plenty of open inventory so they were putting the units online
themselves. The condo lobby would take care of your check-in process.

~~~
yakshaving_jgt
There are. I'm staying in one now.

It is somewhat concerning though, as there are big signs in the lobby of just
about every luxury condo building stating — in English — that short-term
rental is illegal, and you could face large fines and jail time.

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a2tech
Is this a surprise? I stayed at places in Vancouver and Seattle 2 years ago
that had prominent signs in the lobby straight up stating the building did not
allow Airbnb and the hosts had instructions about ‘community guidelines’ that
were really designed to keep renters from being noticed by other residents.

~~~
CountSessine
Well, if you want to Do The Right Thing, here is the webform to report those
hosts to the City of Vancouver:

[https://vancouver.ca/doing-business/short-term-rentals-
repor...](https://vancouver.ca/doing-business/short-term-rentals-report-
concerns.aspx)

Seattle doesn't seem to have an equivalent.

~~~
xfitm3
Is it really the right thing?

~~~
lscotte
Yes, the law is the law.

~~~
stickfigure
That's the kind of logic that kept Jim Crow going.

~~~
bsder
You just compared the fight against slavery to lining the pockets of a venture
capitalist by annoying the neighbors.

You might want to think about that some more.

~~~
drjesusphd
They did no such thing and its disingenuous to claim so. They provided a
counterexample that illustrates a flaw in the ethical model "law = right".

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Lucadg
In this Airbnb drama there's a company getting all the business and none of
the hate: Booking.com. They list apartments, don't perform any more checks on
the legality and are never mentioned. It's amazing to watch.

~~~
OJFord
In that case though the worse crime is its website...

~~~
Lucadg
Some will say the booking experience on booking.com is easier but that's not
the point. The amazing fact is how they are reaping all the benefits of this
growing market while being shielded by Airbnb getting all the bad press. Of
course Airbnb started it but now they are both doing the same thing.

------
king_magic
It’s super awkward & sketchy things like this that have prevented me from
really trying Airbnb in earnest.

~~~
dehrmann
Almost every Airbnb I've stayed in has felt a bit like this--like I'm not
really supposed to be there--and it's a reason I tend to stay in hotels.

I appreciate the premise of staying in a city a bit more like a local and
having a kitchen, but I'm at a loss for how people get over how it always
feels a bit sketchy and anxiety around the inconsistent process.

~~~
pishpash
How they get over? Saving a bunch of $ helps.

~~~
Spooky23
Every time I’ve looked at an AirBnb the prices are the same or higher than a
hotel or real bnb unless you compromise on location or sketch factor.

~~~
kenrose
I've noticed prices between hotels and Airbnb are closer. I think part of this
is cities have caught on and are either charging fees (like SF) or are
enforcing more regulations, which limits supply.

In the past (2014/2015), AirBNBs were generally 30% cheaper than hotels and
provided better amenities (like a kitchen).

~~~
pishpash
It's the same NIMBYism and real-estate-related corruption ring in many large
cities that should be upended. If they don't even care about reasonble-cost
housing for their own residents, even less so will they care about reasonable-
cost lodging for guests.

------
siberianbear
I used Airbnb for years, but after a lot of strange experiences like this I
was just tired of it. It was just constantly so much _grief_. And some of
Airbnb's policies and customer support was just plain useless or outright
hostile.

At one point I realized that if I just stayed in Marriott-branded hotels all
the time, I could get platinum status. Now I have it, and I'm much happier
with Marriott than I ever was with Airbnb. They give me lots of extra care and
free stuff because of my status with the chain. If anything at all doesn't
meet my expectation, I just ask them and they always fix it.

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mnm1
It's pretty shitty of hosts who know there are rules against Airbnb to Airbnb
their homes out, even shittier of the management of such buildings to lock or
kick people out (would they do the same to friends and family they didn't
recognize?), and shittiest of Airbnb to not take responsibility and at least
put up these people elsewhere and stop allowing listings in banned buildings.
Of course, if you're a multi billion dollar company, laws don't really apply.
After all what are the consequences to Airbnb? None.

~~~
LanceH
Some might say that multi-billion dollar companies got those laws passed.

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genericone
Airbnb, where the renter is not the customer, but the product being sold to
hosts. Airbnb is a middle man, they dont care about renters or hosts, they
only care about connecting the two and getting their cut.

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lancesells
I would like to know why the photo was taken that way and why it was used in
the article.

~~~
bemmu
It makes you feel like you are the person about to stay in the place, only to
find out that it's not allowed.

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TheLuddite
Can't the local governments use the homeless population to track such AirBnBs
- the homeless will have a place to stay, will earn money(like 20% from the
fine given to the landlord) and help detect an prove foul play.

~~~
humanrebar
If they are successful, the program eliminates itself.

What's to prevent the person from lying about visiting places? A failed career
and ruined finances?

Also if the government is going to gather evidence about a crime, even a minor
one, the evidence needs to stand up in court.

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fxfan
Can some people enumerate pros and cons of hotels vs airbnb?

I've always stayed at hiltons- granted my firm pays for it. Besides kitchen,
I've never felt anything missing.

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ximeng
Stayed in an airbnb and had someone come round and say the manager was
illegally letting it. No official response to a complaint to airbnb. Haven’t
used it since.

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rootsudo
This is nothing new, I've used airbnb since 2015 and had the same with hosts,
and also tell my guests the same sort of rules too.

Airbnb isn't banned at my condo, but - why tell people what you're doing?

Then again I have 100+ positive reviews, and I invite my guests personally
in/meet them in the parking lot, etc.

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NoblePublius
The head line should actually read, “Hotels are so bad, airbnb guests put up
with lying and sneaking”

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mmaccou
Stories like this is exactly why I've created Roamie (www.roamie.co)...for
those that want the safety and reliability of hotels, but also might be solo
travellers and want to meet others.

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mruts
Why is this women so scared? She seems kind of an idiot, tbh. Who cares? Just
play it cool, no one is going to kick you out.

