
Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs - duggieawesome
http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/boston-man-invents-straws-and-cups-detect-date-rape-drugs
======
Nursie
1\. Awesome invention, straws that detect adulterants and change colour

2\. Obviously people do get drugged occasionally, the inventor seems to have
had it happen to him

3\. Unfortunately there seems to be no real evidence that GHB or ketamine are
often used in sexual assaults, and even Rohypnol which has the worst
reputation has not often been detected. A straw that could detect a drink
that's stronger than you think it is might be more useful, AFAICT the number
one date-rape drug is alcohol.

(I want to be absolutely clear here, I'm not saying date rape doesn't happen,
I'm not saying that some really nasty people don't deliberately get others
into pliable states to take advantage of them, but AFAICT the use of drugs in
the way the media likes to run scare stories about is very uncommon)

~~~
keevie
None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol.

It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really
objects to people using it for that purpose.

Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once
you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's
something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do such a
thing.

~~~
Nursie
>> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./

It is, sorry.

There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed
together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's
inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them.

>> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really
objects to people using it for that purpose.

You've now gone beyond creepy.

~~~
jmduke
I'm giving the commenter the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he means that
"there's nothing wrong with getting someone hammered to try and sleep with
them", he means that "society seems to have a much smaller problem with
getting someone hammered to try and sleep with them despite it being the same
basic idea as GHB."

~~~
Nursie
Dunno. To me there's a vast differnce between getting pissed and falling into
bed with someone as a mutual "WAHEY! let's go for it!" thing and "if I keep
buying her drinks maybe she'll get drunk enough to take her top off". The
latter seems little better than spiking them.

\--edit-- OK so I've read his other comments and it was clearly a comment on
society and meant to be taken at anything but face value. I'll be the first to
admit that in discussions like these I can easily suffer from a sense of
humour failure, if not a complete lack of sarcasm detection.

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incision
Clubs and bars tend to be dark and the patrons inebriated. I have to imagine
that those factors would go an awful long way toward nullifying any benefit of
this stuff.

Also, if the technology involved is anything like the color-changing "field
test" kits that cops use, false positives will be a problem.

An associate of mine was booked for "heroin possession" when an overzealous
cop decided to test his aspirin during a traffic stop - he was released the
instant he got a hold of a lawyer.

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eggbrain
This is a great invention that can help prevent abuse, but I'm worried bars
won't buy in for a few reasons:

1) I assume the cups have to be disposable, as the strips probably don't work
multiple times. Most bars I've been to don't use disposable cups.

2) Even if they did, it has to be cost effective for the bar to consider using
them. If 1000 cups is $250 (0.25/cup) and you can get 10,000 normal cups for
that price, that's going to probably factor into their decision.

3) The bar might be worried that having these cups might reflect poorly on
their reputation. I can imagine people saying to themselves "Why is the bar
using special glasses that detect date rape? Is date rape a problem at this
bar?" When you introduce an item like this it might lead to speculation that
there is a problem when really you're trying to be safe. It's like if you
installed a metal detector at a club and put bars on the windows -- you might
be doing it just to be safe, but your patrons might think "do things happen
here that warrant security precautions like this"?

~~~
hfsktr
On number 3, people might think the opposite too. "We can go here and not have
to worry!" I wonder how that would factor into how much someone drinks "Since
there are no drugs to worry about, the people must be trustworthy enough to
get blackout drunk around!"

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Millennium
It seems to me that, rather than making straws and drinks that do this, it
would be better to see if it could be incorporated into some kind of nail
polish that, once dried, could detect this.

I suggest nail polish for two reasons. One is that it removes the need to
carry specialized tools: once you've done your nails, you can test 10 drinks
and leave the bottle at home. Not having to carry a tool is somewhat more
convenient, but it also means the tool can't be forgotten, lost, stolen, or
tampered with.

The other advantage is discretion. It's not difficult, with a setup like this,
to test a drink without others knowing what you are doing. It could be argued
that people shouldn't mind being tested, but from a pragmatic standpoint, the
kind of person who spikes a drink is the kind of person who could very easily
become dangerous if they know they're being put to the test. A discreet test,
therefore, is a safer test, and since these tests are supposed to be all about
safety, it follows that a discreet test is also a better test.

~~~
tinha
The idea is good, but it would be more targeted to women than men.

~~~
jsymolon
A clear coat will work with both sexes.

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bluetidepro
> "Boston Man _Invents_ Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs"

Invents? I thought this has been around for quite awhile now? I remember
hearing about things like this years ago. Maybe it was just the idea, and had
not yet been actually a physical product though?

~~~
diydsp
heh. it was "new" in Dec 2012 as well. Same inventor:
[http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2012/12/11/new-straw-
detects...](http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2012/12/11/new-straw-detects-date-
rape-drugs-drinks/w9zDzE3blWz8COnfnWWh8L/story.html)

It was also invented by scientists in Tel Aviv in August 2012:
[http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/08/24/tel-aviv-researchers-
de...](http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/08/24/tel-aviv-researchers-design-straw-
to-detect-date-rape-drugs/)

Apparently also in August 2011 by the same scientists:
[http://www.geekosystem.com/straw-detects-
drugs/](http://www.geekosystem.com/straw-detects-drugs/)

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andrewhillman
These drugs are without consistent ingredients and are always changing. He
will need to stay ontop of drug trends and the constant iteration will side
track the project. His biggest challenge will be scoring the actual drug to
test the sensors... The chances that he will be able to produce these cups for
an amount equal to the current cost of a regular plastic cup is doubtful.
Etch-it cups can't even come close to the price of a regular plastic cup so
how can these sensor cups be priced to attract bulk orders from bars and
clubs?

My guess is that he is banking that the patent has value to cup manufacturers
but the cup manufacturers probably don't want to hire a slew of scientist for
R&D. They just want to make and sell cups.

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adamio
Invent me a cup that tells me if my Diet Coke is actually Regular Coke, then
we can talk

~~~
semiprivate
Taste buds?

~~~
adamio
An indicator with fewer false +/\- than taste buds

~~~
venomsnake
Even coke zero tastes nothing like regular coke. Aspartame has very distinct
after taste - almost rotten like.

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venomsnake
Now I know I may be stupid engineer but isn't much simpler solution to have
someone trusted who to call from time to time. With everybody having
smartphones an gps app that for given period of time sends messages to trusted
3rd party about your location and being able to call if something is out of
order is also a solution.

Just before going upstairs she just calls to the "warden" and if she is
speaking coherent ... do whatever you like. If not - the trusted party can
take a cab or signal the police.

~~~
VLM
"Now I know I may be stupid engineer but isn't much simpler solution"

I'm with you on this. Nothing stupider than slapping a technical solution on a
social problem and calling it good.

Hmm, going out to drink unknown substances out of other peoples cups and
letting other people mix potions for you and drinking out of cups people leave
laying around unsupervised for others to mess with, is unsafe now, so "open
mouth and out comes ridiculous cross between rube goldberg, life magazine
predictions from 75 years ago about the future, and star trek technobabble".
No, its just an obsolete, dangerous, dumb way to spend your time. You wanna do
something stupid, fine, have fun, but don't come crying to me about how us
smart people "have" to do something about your dumb decisions.

Kinda like free love was cool before HIV. Or going drunk driving was a great
idea when you drove your own horse, but really dumb idea after cars. Sorry to
break it to all the whiners but like it or not we live in the 2010s so deal
with it or suffer. Going out drinking means pretty scary odds of date rape. So
unless you're dense as neutronium, don't do it.

Before the chorus of how dare I blame the victim, well I have the right to
blame them because I'm not an idiot. Going out drinking might have been fun in
ye olden daze but its not ye olden daze anymore, its dumb and dangerous and
THAT is why I have the right to blame the victim. I didn't get this brilliant
knowledge from a reveled religion or a secret sauce, but from incessant
whining of journalist reports, any other moron out there should be able to
figure out the same thing I figured out, which is not to go out drinking
anymore. Too bad for the victim if they're too dumb or lazy to think like the
human being they are. Actions do have consequences.

I do have genuine pity for like "the first" date rape victims, how could she
have possibly known and she'd not to blame. But we've had a lot of journalism
since then. Not for some idiot who went out last night with a virtual bullseye
painted on their fun parts, knowing fully whats probably about to happen,
knowing that when the inevitable happens, they can just blame "society" or
maybe blame the "techies for not inventing a cure"... anyone to blame but
themselves.

There are perfectly good social solutions to this social problem. BYOB. Carry
a fashionable hip flask. Strange as it may sound, you can socialize with
friends without consuming liquids of any sort (insane concept, huh?). Take up
an intoxicant that's safer than alcohol and harder (impossible?) to spike,
like weed. "Back when I was a kid" we got totally drunk BEFORE we went out,
who wants to repeatedly pay $7 a glass for something I can get drunk on at
home for 75 cents/can, especially when you're a poor student. Only get drunk
with actual friends at home instead of criminal strangers at a bar who want to
take advantage of you. We're all smart here, its not very hard to figure out.
These "revolutionary" ideas might negatively impact someones entrenched
profitable business model? Tough cookies. Cry me a river.

But don't spew random tech all over an outmoded idiotic behavior and call it
brilliant. Its just obsolete thrashing about. Wanna suffer? Fine go out and do
it. I'm not going to feel any pity when the inevitable happens.

Don't worry, people are still going to find the numerous other ways to act
stupid and hurt themselves.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Or going drunk driving was a great idea when you drove your own horse, but
> really dumb idea after cars.

I don't think the danger to self is a big differentiatory between drunk
horseback riding vs. drunk driving, rather, the difference in the external
costs is.

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diminoten
Instead of every cup or every straw doing this, some random and unknown
percentage would do it. Combined with advertising, it could be an effective
deterrent in a place where this is a real problem.

People keep mentioning a bar's reputation, but at the end of the day if this
is a real problem for your bar, your reputation is already screwed. This seems
to me like a very pro-active way of working on fixing an already broken
reputation.

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doingitwrong
If you find yourself going to a venue where you think one of these would be
handy, shouldn't you just not go?

~~~
zerovox
It can happen anywhere, it's not just in seedy bars, I've know it to happen(at
least here in the UK) in clubs with otherwise good reputations.

~~~
gknoy
That makes sense, for the same reason that pickpockets rarely look like seedy
hoodlum types, and instead blend in with the crowd.

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pjscott
When the drink isn't drugged, these look just like straws and cups that _don
't_ detect drugs. This suggests an obvious attack: swap out the straw or cup
for a plain plastic one. (Countermeasure: make the cups and straws look
distinctive.)

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xsmasher
Wonder what the false positive / false negative rate is?

Either one could lead to a dangerous situation.

~~~
ukapu
One of those situations is more dangerous than the other, I would say.

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codebeaker
I happen to know (no time to look up the patent number now, sorry) that this
is covered by a US, and EU patent. A friend of mine lost more than €30,000 to
being sued by a firm that already holds the rights to this.

I hope he figures it out before they start trolling him. My friend's
“invention” also covered a product on beer-mats and serviettes that would
change colour under the same circumstances, unfortunately the patent he was
facing down was so broadly written that it covered basically anything that
could be used to detect daterape drugs in a drink by indicating it somehow.

Surely the patent could have been battled, but he wasn't in the financial
position to do so.

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jkoehler
\- how many cups contain a drug (i.e. 0,1%; 99.9% are drug free)?

\- is the problem big enough for bars to care about?

\- do cup producers increase their rev/profit with this cup?

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newbie12
I want a straw that tests for adulterated alcohol-- specifically for a bar
serving filtered rubbing alcohol instead of the real stuff.

~~~
NegativeK
15g of isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol will kill you.

There's a chance, though, that you may be calling low quality ethanol alcohol
rubbing alcohol, and I'm just missing it.

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JulianMorrison
A better solution is to learn the behaviors that rapists use - being pushy and
overbearing, not taking no for an answer, cutting out of the herd, stuff like
that. If your buddy behaves like that, don't let him get away with it.

And it's useless to detect rape drugs because the biggest rape drug is
_alcohol_.

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asdasf
Why does this frequently "invented" useless item keep getting press every time
it is "invented" for the dozenth time? These are really misguided devices,
that give people a false sense of safety (it is even labeled "safe" on the
non-spiked drink) when alcohol is far and away the most used and most
dangerous date rape drug.

~~~
jwoah12
You could always invent your own strip that detects alcohol and displays
UNSAFE. That way people will be reminded before they drink their vodka tonic
that it contains alcohol.

~~~
asdasf
The point was not that we need to detect alcohol. The point was that these
things are counter productive to the goal of preventing date rape.

~~~
jwoah12
Sorry, I was being sarcastic. The goal of these things is to prevent date rape
by someone unsuspectingly taking particular drugs. There's not much you are
going to be able to invent if your goal is to stop date rape by preventing
people from knowingly drinking alcohol.

~~~
asdasf
But you just repeated the same thing. Again, I am not suggesting "stop date
rape by preventing people from knowingly drinking alcohol" should be a goal. I
am saying these devices are harmful. They have the opposite effect from what
is intended. They create a false sense of security in regards to the problem,
convincing people that as long as their drink hasn't been spiked they are
fine. But 99% of date rapes involving drugs aren't from drink spiking, they
are just from drinking.

~~~
VLM
Perhaps both of you would understand each others position better, by
meditating on the phrase "security theater".

A straw that detects a handful of numerous dangerous substances is about as
useful at its claim of producing "safety" as TSA agents molesting grandmas and
teen girls at airports. I'm rather proud of this analogy.

~~~
jwoah12
I understand the position (and enjoy your analogy), I just simply disagree
with it. I find it hard to believe that anyone who is drinking an alcoholic
beverage is going to be tricked into thinking the effects of said alcohol are
any different just because a straw or cup says "SAFE."

~~~
asdasf
Go ask some college aged women about it and see what you find. Ignorance of
the effects of alcohol is incredibly widespread. Thousands of women a year
swear they had their drink spiked but actually just got black-out drunk.
Convincing women that all they need to worry about is the 1% case, and that
the 99% case doesn't exist is harmful.

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celwell
It's genius!

