
Workers fear returning to work – many are resisting the call - cornett
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-07-23/la-fi-reopening-california-businesses-covid-19-fears
======
twoodfin
I’m a little frustrated that ordinary people making a risk/reward calculation
in the absence of complete information are being described as in a state of
“fear”.

~~~
starkd
Not to be glib, but isn't that the definition of fear? Making risk/reward
calculations in the absence of complete information. It can lead either to
paralysis or action. Such is life.

~~~
elliekelly
Sure paralysis sometimes causes inaction but sometimes inaction is an
affirmative decision to take no action. That isn’t fear, that’s just strategy.

In fact the single best negotiation advice I ever got was to say nothing when
you make an ask and the other side turns you down. Often the uncomfortable
silence, even just for a few seconds, will cause the other person to
instinctively walk back their firm no and start offering other possible
solutions.

~~~
solinent
It may help to consider the opposite of fear, which is courage or daring, or
even foolishness.

You can be described as courageous by staying at home, sure, but you also
might be fearful. Are there more dangers at home? Is the risk & reward both
higher and the ratio higher? I think those are the questions that ultimately
determine the answer.

Given that there may be a huge negative to taking action however instead of
inaction seems to suggest that it is fear by that criteria.

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youeseh
For non-retail fulltime employees who have been successfully productive,
working from home has saved time, money, getting sick from fellow commuters
and colleagues. That time saved has gone towards living a much healthier life.

~~~
beervirus
Maybe for some people. I find myself drinking more than usual.

~~~
acituan
Sorry to hear that. Could it be related to pandemic closing down places you
usually go, people you see etc?

~~~
Zach_the_Lizard
For me, as an NYC resident, my apartment is small, most of my friends have
left the city, none of my usual hangouts are open, and life is utterly
monotonous. My wife was laid off and was in a field annihilated by the
pandemic.

Every day is the same.

Worse, we've already had the damn disease, and it was utterly mild if it's the
one I'm thinking of (testing was hard to get when I got sick so we took
antibody tests later).

So I'm having the joy sucked out of my life to protect me from catching a
disease I already caught.

~~~
paulryanrogers
Your sacrifice is appreciated by those with weaker immune systems and those
who would otherwise risk permanent organ damage. It is a very infectious
disease, so the mitigations are very serious.

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ISL
The thing that will restore trust: Clear and transparent daily reporting of
comprehensive contact-tracing results.

~~~
pmoriarty
You don't even need to contact trace if everyone gets tested every day.[1]

The most promising plan I've heard along these lines is detailed in a recent
episode of _This Week in Virology_.[2]

This is possible, practical, and affordable.

The technology for fast pregnancy-test style tests for COVID-19 exists right
now, and they could cost as little as $1 per test.

The reason these tests aren't being used yet is because of the FDA's misguided
requirements for extremely high sensitivity for COVID-19 tests. If these
requirements could be relaxed to allow lower-sensitivity tests, then these
tests could go out on the market... or, better yet, the government could take
over and ensure everyone gets tested with these tests every day for $1 a test.

Even a more limited plan of testing everyone in just highly affected areas
would be way better than what we've got now.

[1] - People could, for instance, get tested each morning, and be required to
present their daily test results upon arriving at work (or even online, from
home, before they start their commute). If they test positive, they just stay
home for a couple of weeks and then go back to work when they test negative
again. People at work will have confidence all their colleagues (and virtually
everyone else out and about) have tested negative.

[2] - Starting at about 6'20" in to episode 640:
[https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-640/](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-640/)

~~~
_jal
> You don't even need to contact trace if everyone gets tested every day

If you have a factory capable putting out 350M tests/day (let's not even get
in to logistics or the next steps), please hang out your shingle.

If not, then perhaps considering plans within the realm of possibility is a
better use of time.

~~~
pmoriarty
_" If you have a factory capable putting out 350M tests/day (let's not even
get in to logistics or the next steps), please hang out your shingle."_

From the above mentioned _TWiV_ podcast[1]:

 _" Take every manufacturing company that knows how to print paper, adapt
their tools to print monoclonal antibodies on to those sheets and just start
slicing it up and shipping it out. It's as easy as that, I mean, you know, I'm
simplifying it a bit, but..."_

And, as the host of _TWiV_ said in an earlier podcast[2]:

 _" It's not undoable. If this were World War 2, you would figure out a way to
do it! This is war. This is World War C19. I don't accept excuses. I got a
letter from a laboratory person who said 'You have no idea what it takes to
develop and execute a test, how many people, how much this and how much
that..' and I said 'You're missing the point. You gotta try. You can't say why
you can't do it. This is war. Let's do it!"_

In fact, I believe he's actually understating the point. This disease has the
potential to kill more Americans than died in all of the wars its ever been in
combined, if it hasn't already. The stakes are enormous.

Let's get it done.

[1] - from about 32 minutes in to podcast 640 -
[https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-640/](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-640/)

[2] - from about 1 hour, 47 minutes in to podcast 638 -
[https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-638/](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-638/)

------
zatel
Many people I know aren't really afraid of catching the virus, they go out to
bars, stores, and other places to meet people with abandon.

They don't want to go back to work because they have gotten to taste passive
income (unemployment money) and don't want to have to go back to trading most
of their time for less money then they can get for free by not going back.

~~~
negamax
Wow.. that's really cynical. Are you sure this article exclusively talk about
people on unemployment benefits?

~~~
daenz
Anecdotal, but I've seen people in my social networks on unemployment say
things to the effect of "If the government could afford to pay us this entire
time to not work, then why should we go back?" Implying that the government
has been withholding livable basic income from people this entire time, and
coronavirus lockdowns have proved it.

~~~
negamax
I am aware of such people too. Their worldview is skewed. But that doesn't
mean we should look down on them. Before knowing what I know now, I was
extremely ignorant too. It's possible for anyone to fill that gap

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jopsen
What is the hospital bill going to look like for 20 days on the ICU?

Say it doesn't kill you, I can see how it can easily wipe you out financially
(at-least in the US).

~~~
jschwartzi
That was one of the considerations for my fiancee quitting her job in retail.
We judged that her income as a commissioned salesperson at 50% of my income
was not worth the potential hospital bills. Plus the potential lifetime of
debilitating side-effects which would put an end to whatever lifestyle we have
planned. So we went to a single income.

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gburdell3
I can't wait to go back to the office since I'm not able to stay nearly as
productive at home. I work with hardware, so not having all my equipment right
next to me on my desk has been a bit of a roadblock. I'm expected to stay home
at least through the end of the year, though, and I'm willing to do it for the
safety of myself and my coworkers, but I really don't want it to last much
longer than that.

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k__
Can't blame them.

I heard about another big Corona outbreak in a German factory. I think that
eroded the trust in employers even more.

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neonate
[https://archive.is/MCql7](https://archive.is/MCql7)

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bfuclusion
People are giant transmission vectors. We're not going to be able to have
"safe" return to work until we get tests that can be done in minutes, by self
serve kiosks, and that cost less than the daily value produced by said
workers.

That or a vaccine, and requirements to be vaccinated to work.

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uberdru
What is a 'worker'?

