
Ask HN: If you could live and work somewhere, where would it be? - bsvalley
If you could pick one place or city in the world where you&#x27;d live and work (software dev) for the next 10 years. Where would it be? And why would you pick that place?
======
Fnoord
Switzerland. High living standard and good wage, multiple languages to speak
(German, French, Italian, and English), neutral in the world (so I don't have
to bother with wars children disguised as adults are organising), great public
transport. Beautiful landscape, I'm very fond of mountains, YMMV (yes, I've
been in SV/SF, also very nice).

Alas, my parents weren't Swiss, but they were from a reasonably liberal (in
the sense of 'liberty') country which has a quite a bunch of the elements
Switzerland has so I could've roll'ed it far less fortunate.

Only downside for Switzerland is the weather, but its a double edged sword.
Sure, its generally cold. If you just work out regularly its not that bad. The
air however is crystal clear which is an advantage for me given I'm a former
smoker and have COPD and asthma in my close family.

~~~
snovv_crash
Salaries are high, but cost of living is also really high. If you are from the
US, expect to eat out less and have a smaller house/apartment, but have nicer
(and longer) holidays.

~~~
Fnoord
I would assume the balance is less ideal than US. Then again people from US
compare to EU while in EU you get pension, insurance, and generally a social
system to protect the weak (which might be you one day).

Quite frankly I wouldn't mind not having much money to live on. My living
standard doesn't evolve around e.g. eating out. I want my own apartment (for
two), a cheap car, a good laptop, a reasonable good smartphone, and some
interior stuff (the usual plus some expensive kitchen equipment as outlier).
That's pretty much it. You don't need a high income for all of that. The only
expensive one is the car and that's something you save up for (long term
investment).

Health is the most important to me; from which everything sprouts. I've been
in Switzerland a couple of times. The air in Switzerland is night and day
compared to where I live (NL), and I don't even live in a big city.

If enough IT people move to Switzerland (I know some known figures who have)
something nice can brew there. For example, Google has a lab there.

Even if you can't get an IT job there's non IT jobs available, including low
wage / low education. Perhaps Norway is a better country in that regard.
Postal service delivery, for example, earns a lot compared to NL. The weather
is Scandinavian, but due to the Mexican Gulf temperature near coast is higher
than Sweden and Finland (this also keeps fishing trade alive in winter).
Relatively clean air, and they're also neutral (tho less than Switzerland).

Obviously it'd be a backup plan. I don't think you can get a visa for that
anyway. Another option could be remote work.

~~~
mahyarm
Immigration isn't that great in switzerland. It takes even longer than the USA
to get citizenship.

A high income is also good for saving, so you can bootstrap your own ventures
in life instead of being beholden to a govt' retirement program or a specific
employer.

~~~
Fnoord
> Immigration isn't that great in switzerland. It takes even longer than the
> USA to get citizenship.

I assumed we were talking about a hypothetical situation because for one
reason or another in our current situation we can't fulfil that dream.

Is it that difficult to get a H1B visa in Switzerland?

> A high income is also good for saving [...]

Yes, but some rather costly business like chemo therapy is in the default
insurance in NL. So you will always have it. Besides, if you got too much
money, you end up paying more tax. So people end up saving, but also spending,
and if they don't they gotta pay more tax. All of which is good for the
economy.

One other thing I like about Switzerland is the direct democracy approach.
Although I think it also works so well because its a small country, we got a
non binding referendum, and its barely ever used because it requires a
petition. Last time it was used was Dutch Ukraine–European Union Association
Agreement referendum, 2016 [1]. Note, I voted 'for', but that doesn't mean I
want the government or EU to ignore the vote. Which is what pretty much
happened recently in action (not in words although those words, too, weren't
binding).

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Ukraine%E2%80%93European...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_Association_Agreement_referendum,_2016)

~~~
snovv_crash
>Is it that difficult to get a H1B visa in Switzerland?

If you don't have an EU passport, yes. There are regional quotas, so if you
want to live somewhere with lots of tech (read: non-EU people) getting in
under the quotas is really hard.

------
DyslexicAtheist
Vienna. In the heart of Europe and just short drive away from every one of
these: Italy Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Germany,
Switzerland. ranked best place to live [1]
[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-
name...](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-named-worlds-
top-city-for-quality-of-life)

I'm not saying that the best thing about Vienna is the highway that get away
from it (LOL), but as a foreigner it's the perfect "beach head" to explore the
continent (and Eastern EU is crazy fun, people are more can-do than can't-do.
There are a billion other reasons such as history, culture, cuisine, outdoor &
sports ... Taxes are high (like everywhere in EU) but you get decent
healthcare. Also salaries in IT are good especially if you are freelancing
pretty identical to Germany. (avg > €60,-/hrs).

Another one of my fav is Berlin. Salaries not as high but fantastic software /
start-up ecosystem. City is very affordable compared to other parts of Europe
so lower salary is not huge issue.

disclosure: I'm Austrian (though have lived outside Austria the past 20+
years)

EDIT: typos

~~~
ido
Lived in Vienna for 8 years, now in Berlin for the past 3. Vienna the _city_
is great but I'd definitely say the biggest downside are the _Viennese_ (I
know this is ironically the most Viennese thing I could say).

Basically everywhere in the German speaking world it's considered kinda weird
to talk to strangers and people are quite...Shy, I guess? It's always the
thing I appreciate most on visits to Canada, the US or the UK, just how
talkative and nice people are.

This applies more to Austrians than to (north) Germans, and the Viennese are
additionaly also grumpy and complain about everything, despite living in one
of the cities with fewest things to complain about.

Also personally felt a lot less accepting of foreigners than Berlin. I far
more often felt like a curious attraction and "obviously" you're not really
Austrian if you're not ethnically Austrian, even if you speak German and have
lived in Vienna your whole life.

~~~
musha68k
Just to offer another point of view here: What you say is true but IMHO things
have been improving on the "culture" side over the last 2-3 years especially.

~~~
ido
What specifically happened in the last 2-3 years?

~~~
kirushik
Eurovision-2015?

------
ThomPete
Already here. New York.

If you like urban life, as long as you can pay your bills it's the best and
most interesting city in the world.

It also helps with a good view :)
[http://000fff.org/uploads/PH6.jpg](http://000fff.org/uploads/PH6.jpg)

~~~
andreygrehov
Great view. I dreamed about New York since I was a kid. I moved here 4 years
ago (from Ukraine) and just recently started to realize how problematic this
city is. There are millions of issues:

\- Real estate. Of course, this is the root of all evil. \- Driving is a
bitch. My wife once asked me to go walk in a Central Park with a kid. I was
looking for a parking space for one and a half hours. Literally. I drove back
home. Because of the real estate, parking garage prices are ridiculous.

\- Restaurants. Overpacked with tables. Because of the real estate, owners
pack their restaurants with as much tables as possible, so they could fit more
people and be able to pay out rent/etc. Anniversary dinner? You'll have it
with your wife, a gay couple and several business partners.

\- Subway. Don't get me started here. People pee in the subway. Trains are
delayed all the time.

\- Medicine. I have a top-notch insurance. Every single doctor is scared of
everything he/she is saying. It seems like all of them think that my next
appointment is with a lawyer. Doctors are very "limited" in what they do. In
my case, I compare with doctors from from my native country. They are more
like engineers there, – never prescribe you anything, until the actual defect
is determined.

\- Emergency Rooms are terrible. Best hospitals of NY. My kid was at 104F+. We
came in at 12:30AM. Doctor saw us at 4AM. Same thing was with my pregnant
wife. We ended up leaving the ER at 5AM because their system was offline and
they couldn't get us anything.

These are just a very few things. There are much more. I'm still looking for a
place to raise my kids.

P.S. New York is amazing for doing business.

edit: formatting

~~~
ThomPete
Here are a couple of tricks :)

Sunday you park for free in Manhattan and should have no problem finding a
spot up around Central park. Was there yesterday myself.

Restaurants are something you need to kind of learn how to deal with. I can
honestly say that I am now mostly never having issues finding a right
restaurant for any kind of need. Read eater.com and use opentable plus become
a regular at a couple of restaurants and you should soon get access to easier
dining.

I take the subway everyday to work switching from L to R. Takes me max 30
minutes normally. Sure there are delays but it's not that bad IMO.

Healthcare here is very different than europe (i am from denmark) it's a long
discussion. I know what you are saying but there are drawback to european
style healthcare too.

Agree.

I Think New York is amazing for raising kids. They will get a perspective on
life that's hard to get anywhere else. But it's not for everyone :)

------
ironmagma
Switzerland. Strong economy, often considered one of the happiest countries in
the world [1], considerate culture, and lots of natural geographic beauty.

[1] World Happiness Report [http://worldhappiness.report/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2/2016...](http://worldhappiness.report/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2/2016/03/HR-V1Ch2_web.pdf) (pp 13)

~~~
holydude
Yes it's a good place to live. But...Industry is mostly composed of
banks,insurance companies, basically a financial sector. Meaning : OLD LEGACY
CRAP.

Also a little bit boring and if you are not a "german" speaking person you
will always feel unwelcome.

~~~
andrewhyde
I found it to be amazingly expensive (I was there in 2013) but a phenomenal
place to explore. Made amazing friends and loved the city but don't miss the
$44 burritos.

~~~
dbg31415
I didn't live there but I did travel for work. Totally common to get stuck
with a $50-70 bill for lunch. And, like a lot of places in Europe, getting
charged for a pitcher of tap water is really off-putting to Americans. Geneva
was by far the worst place I have ever been for charging for water.

------
lucaspiller
I recently moved to Vilnius, Lithuania, mainly because I have friends and
family (my wife) here. There is quite a good local tech scene (for the size of
the city), but I work remotely as the pay is higher and I don't like offices.

Compared to other EU countries it is relatively cheap, but still has a pretty
good quality of life. I'd say if you are earning a western salary, as long as
you like winter, you can have a better quality of life than living somewhere
like the UK (where I'm from).

There are direct flights to most European capitals, so if you want to work
semi-remote that's an option too. There are lots of lakes and it's not too
warm (max 35c for a few days a year), so it's nice to chill out here in the
summer.

------
mathgeek
It would be right where I am, which is where my extended family is. With a
wife and kids and being in my 30's, I've learned that who you're with is more
important than where you are.

~~~
cylinder
is your wife's family in the same location as yours? if not, how did you
select?

~~~
mathgeek
Although we're both from the area, my parents have passed on and my sister is
the only one who's not within a two hour drive (including most of my wife's
family).

------
aroc
Vancouver, BC. Supernatural beauty. Immediate access to incredible outdoors.
Great food and cafe scene. Fantastic arts and music scene. Clean. One of the
greenest (carbon footprint) cities in the world. Fantastic transit system.
Fast growing technology sector. + all the benefits that come with being a
Canadian city.

~~~
JonoBB
Can you explain we what you mean by "all the benefits that come with being a
Canadian city" please?

~~~
btbuildem
No guns and free healthcare are two things that come to mind.

~~~
ad_hominem
Canada has guns. In fact Canada has some guns one can't get in the US due to
import bans, like Norinco.

~~~
goodJobWalrus
Maybe, but homocide rate is on par with Western Europe, and people generally
don't walk around with weapons

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry#Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry#Canada)

------
rocky1138
Taipei, Taiwan. The friendliest people you will ever meet, living and working
in the most convenient country you will ever visit. Everything for daily life
is within walking distance but if you do need something a bit further out,
public and private transportation is exceptionally cheap and effective. The
weather is fantastic year-round (save for heavy rains sometimes coming from
the ocean) and taking a weekend to visit Kenting in the south by high-speed
rail is a treat. I'm already saving up to do it.

~~~
jenoer
My fiancé is from Taiwan and recently moved in with me in Europe. I've been
there a couple of times and can not agree more with what you say! We want to
live a couple of years together in my country and eventually switch to Taiwan
once I feel comfortable with leaving my family and current life behind (and
when she has (western) working experience & study that will grant her instant
"You worked/studied in the west? Take our money!" privileges) We will live
like king and queen together!

~~~
cylinder
Will it ever feel comfortable? I'm in the same position as you, on the brink
of moving far away (not Taiwan), but the anxiety of going somewhere new
(possibly permanently!) so far from family always restrains me.

------
bookofjoe
Charlottesville, Virginia.

Spectacularly beautiful area; small (40,000 city/100,000 Albemarle County
which is huge in terms of land area); University of Virginia (20,000 students)
anchors a wonderful college town vibe; very high-end options (Wegman's/Whole
Foods/Apple Store 1 hour away, etc.); 2-hour drive/2.5 hours train from
Washington D.C.; growing tech hub reputation/community (little Austin);
airport with lots of flights is 20 minutes from anywhere in town with ZERO
security lines; cost of living trivial compared to Washington/NYC/LA/SF; no
traffic jams ever; nice people.

I grew up in Milwaukee, then lived age 18-35 in LA with a year in Tokyo, moved
here at age 35 in 1983: I wouldn't dream of living anywhere else.

~~~
mathgeek
I lived in Greensboro for a time, and the similarities are quite large. While
the tech community there is less developed, you're 90 minutes from Charlotte
and have everything you listed above within a half hour drive.

------
jfroma
I moved four months ago from a very crowded city to an small town in the
province of Córdoba, Argentina called Mendiolaza. We have beautiful landscapes
and it is near (25kms) the big city.

I am a software developer like you and I work from home for a company based on
Seattle.

Anyway I am not here to convince you to move to this city in particular but
please consider low populated areas with green spaces.

This move has changed the life of my two kids, they went from being all day in
their rooms playing with ipad, videogames etc to play outside, riding bikes,
climbing trees, etc. Each one have like 10 friends they see every day. I feel
they have more self-confidence since they can go outside alone for hours.

It has affected me as well, everything seems to be faster in an small town.
There isn't queues when you go buy something, the services are better. Example
the car wash in this town will pick up my car, wash it and bring it home. If I
ask for a pediatrician home visit, the doctor will be in my front door 30
minutes after I call, compared to 4 hours. There are less places for food than
in the big city, but it is more handmade and better.

The people is friendlier and there is honesty and trust among the neighbors.
First time I went to buy something I ran out of cash and they didn't have
debit/credit, the owner say "no problem, pay me tomorrow" even if I insisted
to cancel the operation.

It took me a while to found a good internet service, I tried 3. Right now I
have a 20M connection.

Anyway I think it has been the best decision I made in 2016. I am very happy
to live here.

~~~
l33tbro
Thanks for this summation of small town living. I find it pretty inspiring
actually.

One question, do you honestly ever feel like you're "missing out" or feel a
sense of isolation by being so far away from a denser place? While I think
cities are over-rated, I do feel that there is a variety to my immediate
environment that I'd be missing if I moved to a small town and had a family. I
strongly suspect this could be a false perception though.

~~~
jfroma
To be honest I haven't had this feeling but maybe it is just because how I am
and because I am 30 minutes away of Cordoba, which is the second bigest city
in Argentina and has good nightlife etc. Most of my friends and family live
there.

I tweeted few weeks ago that I moved here and found another guy in IT few kms
away. Also the first week I invited two neighbours to a bbq (asado!) and turns
out one of the guys worked for HP. Not enough for a meetup yet but I am
considering havig some beers with them.

My wife didn't want to move out few years ago, two weeks after living here she
told me that she was very happy to live here and she suffer every time she had
to go to the city.

My 11 daughter has done more friends here in two months than in her entire
life living in the city and my son 4yo son is about to learn to ride a bike.

My advice will be at least to try it out, it will change your life for ever.

------
jomkr
Amsterdam. Love the people and the culture, the night-life is great (no, not
that sort!), cycle everywhere - never stuck in traffic jams. Reasonably easy
to fly back to visit family/friends in London.

Downsides: Expensive, I can't speak Dutch.

~~~
Fifer82
Me too. If I think about not working in Amsterdam, I get miserable. What a
place!

There is a wee cafe on the Singel which does BLTs which are so good, that it
the only food that i care about, everything else is mere mass. These BLTs
though...

Yes, I'd move for the BLT alone!

~~~
lawnchair
Just wondering which cafe?

~~~
mbrock
I'm guessing it's Broodje Bert.

~~~
Fifer82
This is the one! I don't even tend to go to small places, it was like a
calling.

~~~
adrianh
Thanks for the heads up. I've eaten at Broodje Bert before but haven't tried
the BLT. Lunch tomorrow! :-)

------
morgante
Hong Kong. I love the food, culture, and fantastic public transportation. It
has a nice mix of Asian and British influences. The city has tons of energy
and is always alive. Plus, despite being a huge metropolis, there are tons of
hiking opportunities nearby in beautiful natural areas.

Unfortunately I'm not alone in loving it so real estate is crazy expensive
(even more so than NYC/SF).

~~~
vinceyuan
Food, public transportation, beach, hiking in HK are good. But housing in HK
is super expensive. You can't find a room in any other cities smaller than HK.
People feel desperate because of the super expensive housing. The city's
economy is kidnapped by real estate. I am living in HK and thinking about
leaving.

~~~
morgante
Yup, that's really why I'd only consider living there if I'd acquired a decent
amount of wealth already (at least $1M USD).

Hopefully the boom will end at some point making it affordable again, but I
don't hold out much hope for that.

------
Xcelerate
Well, it depends. Do I have a remote job with all of the computational
resources and salary I could possibly want? Then Asheville, North Carolina.
Beautiful scenery, great food, plenty of high quality coffee shops, and close
to family.

If "close to family" wasn't a factor then: San Francisco, Seattle, Lyon
(France), Barcelona, and London (for a little while).

It's hard to beat the benefits of the massive tech ecosystem in SF. It would
be nice if some of that ecosystem moved to the South. Chattanooga and
Nashville are nice cities that I wouldn't mind living in either.

~~~
thenewwazoo
As a southerner who has moved West, I contend that the South needs to fix a
huge amount of its culture before there will be the thriving mix of industry
and creativity you can find in cities like SF, Seattle, and Boston. Let's not
forget that the south has not been the engine of the American economy since
slavery was (de jure) abolished.

The South's peculiar mix of dominionism and right-wing fervor makes strange
bedfellows of fundamentalists and rapacious capitalists. Low taxes starve
infrastructure and the social safety net, and those are what drives stability.
Without stability, entrepreneurialism cannot happen. Without
entrepreneurialism, the closest you get are places like Austin and RTP: big,
established companies moving people for tax reasons that does nothing to
foster innovation.

Atlanta really should be the next big tech hub, but it won't be so long as the
regressive politics and systemic racism of the south remain unaddressed.
Charlotte would be great except that things like HB2 make the prospect of
moving to NC a complete nonstarter for many in the already-marginalized LGBTQ
population. The list goes on.

~~~
ak217
I definitely appreciate your perspective on the South in general. But I'm a
westerner who has lived in Atlanta for a number of years. The gentrification
and densification of Atlanta's inner neighborhoods is unlike anything I've
seen elsewhere. I'm curious why you think Georgia will hold Atlanta back from
further success, instead of Atlanta dragging Georgia kicking and screaming
forward. As of 20 years ago I think nobody imagined the progress Atlanta would
make.

------
rockyj
Berlin. Live here and love it. Reasonably big, multicultural city with
excellent public transport. You can go anywhere within 1 hour by public
transport (average 25 mins). Eat any cuisine anytime, tons of startups,
meetups and social events. All backed by excellent German education,
innovation + social support.

------
andrewhyde
Melbourne, Australia needs to be on your list.

Pros: Most livable city in the world. Great startup scene. Phenomenal
transportation options. Great universities. Fantastic street art everywhere.
Amazing food. USD vs. AUD is quite good for USD right now so it is pretty
affordable.

Cons: Internet not blazing fast. Beaches elsewhere in Australia are much
better (it is on a bay = no waves).

~~~
praneshp
(As an Indian) Pros: The MCG

(As an Indian) Cons: India usually loses/struggles in boxing day tests.

~~~
BigJono
Every few years I consider moving somewhere else, and then I remember I won't
be able to go to the cricket and footy at the G anymore, or the tennis, or the
formula one :(

Melbourne has got to be one of the best cities in the world if you enjoy
sports.

~~~
praneshp
Ah, I forgot about tennis. I applied to UMelb and Monash back in 2011 when I
was applying to grad school, but was scared off by some attacks on Indian
students at the time. My sports watching life would've been so different if
that had gone well.

I'd put London slightly above Melbourne, it's got Tennis, Football and Cricket
among others.

~~~
cylinder
One thing to note is the accessibility and convenience of the events in
Melbourne. The MCG and other stadiums/arenas are all in a big complex right in
the heart of the city, with easy train, tram, bike, and walking access, and
this includes the Australian Open tennis. The Grand Prix is in Albert Park,
which is kind of like saying there's Formula 1 in Central Park NYC, kind of
nuts.

Not sure about London, but in NYC, the sporting events are far away and a real
drag to get to. US Open tennis is in Queens - take a subway for an hour from
Grand Central, then walk a mile on a boardwalk to the stadium, and when I
attended a couple of years ago the fan experience outside of the actual
matches was pretty poor (and this being the US, all about promoting corporate
sponsorships). NFL football is actually in New Jersey, you have to take a
commuter train from Penn Station out there and back. Madison Square Garden for
basketball is the exception, but the ticket prices are prohibitive. Baseball
is in the Bronx, which is not so bad, but I haven't done it.

~~~
pimlottc
You don't even have go to Albert Park for the Grand Prix, you can hear it from
the CBD! ;)

But I concur, I have never seen a city where all the major amenities are all
so closely located to the city center, it's fantastic. Etihad Stadium,
Melbourne Cricket Ground, AAMI Park, the Australian Open, Hamer Hall, Sydney
Myer Music Bowl, State Library of Victoria, Melbourne Museum, National
Gallery, Queen Vic Market, Federation Square, Birrarung Marr, Royal Botanic
Gardens, concert venues, theatre district, Chinatown, Greek precinct, Little
Italy, Little Saigon, University of Melbourne, RMIT, Docklands, South
Melbourne Market, the list goes on and on...

------
aloukissas
Already live there: Los Angeles. Why?

* Booming tech scene, with a healthy startup/VC ecosystem.

* Best weather + location (benefits of sun + proximity to the ocean are well-documented, e.g. [http://www.livescience.com/37819-health-benefits-living-near...](http://www.livescience.com/37819-health-benefits-living-near-ocean.html)).

It's no surprise that people from SF and NY are flocking here ;)

~~~
jobigoud
I come to Los Angeles a few times a year for several weeks and I really like
it. I'm normally based in a mid-sized European city. In L.A. One thing that
surprised me is the proximity of the mountains and Griffith Park for hiking,
that's fantastic. Beaches very close, awesome weather, movie theaters
everywhere, lots of diversity, etc.

Oh there are issues of course, lots of homeless, not bicycle-friendly, etc.
But it is definitely on my short-list of cities to consider living in.

~~~
aloukissas
The west side (Santa Monica/Venice/Marina del Rey) where most of the tech
companies and startups set base is extremely bicycle friendly.

------
3131s
For the last four years I've been in Cambodia, which I will always return to
as a home base. But in the future I'm also interested in extended stays in
Uruguay, Iceland, Czech Republic, Finland, Mongolia, Laos, and a few others.

~~~
ams6110
Eclectic choices. Are you Cambodian by birth? If not, how did you end up
there?

~~~
3131s
I'm from Minnesota in the US.

I felt like I was stagnating in the US. I wanted to pursue computer
programming but I didn't study it in college and didn't quite have the skill
set to succeed professionally at that point. My original plan was to buy a
van, drive around warm parts of the US, and live cheaply while I studied for a
year or so. Then I realized that I would have a lot more runway if I went
abroad. Three weeks later (on the day of my 25th birthday) I was in
Cambodia... for absolutely no planning whatsoever things have turned out very
well. While low cost of living was originally the main reason I chose to live
here, now there are many things that would make it hard for me to go anywhere
else. I have become a different person here and living a very simple lifestyle
(80$ per month apartment in an ultra densely populated neighborhood, no hot
water, no AC, no TV, walking everywhere, eating only healthy food, exercising
daily, etc.) has fixed most of my numerous neuroses :)

~~~
herbst
Thats very interesting. I am currently in cambodia (siem reap heading to
battambang tomorrow) and my frist impression is that this is not suited well
for online workers. But the last part of your comment explains it. For me its
really hard right now to let away some luruxy i am used too. Kudos!

~~~
3131s
The enormous hassle for me is transferring money in and out of the country. My
internet service in Phnom Penh is fairly steady fortunately. Let me know if
you need any advice, translations, or whatever while traveling!

~~~
herbst
I was surprised to see that half of the banks dont accept mastercard and half
of the rest was somehow out of service. I can imagine there is quite a banking
hassle. Thanks for the offer. Maybe i need to come back to it, but so far
everything is nice (except the internet, where both 4G and the hotel Wifi fail
every other hour).

From all the interesting dishes, what do i have to try?

~~~
3131s
Try all of the exotic fruits. Salak, jackfruit, sapodillas, dragonfruit,
rambutan, mangosteen, durian, custard apples, and whatever else you find. Any
of the familiar fruits are especially good here too (there are many types of
bananas and mangoes here, for example, that taste different from any that I
had eaten before). There are also fruits that I only know the Khmer names of
-- /pɲiev/, /lɔŋkɔŋ/ \-- that are very good and also unusual tasting (they
both look like longans).

I like a lot of Khmer food but tend toward simple vegetable-heavy stir fries
with okra, kale, bamboo, lotus stems, water spinach, etc. Rice porridge is
very common here and usually includes bean sprouts and coagulated cow's blood
plus added lime / pepper / chili (the cow's blood is great, but chicken blood
tastes terrible IMO). I also eat grilled fish and grilled chicken skin on a
near daily basis.

------
halfw0rld
My opinion is pretty generic as I would go to SF, since I am living there.
Even though it may feel that the hype is fading I think that it's just the
beginning. Although each individual is different and I would try to think of
other things you want to see in your everyday life as well. Do you like
nature, lots of greenery? Or do you prefer fast paced city life? The choices
are on the table and you just need to pick the one for you. You can see what
kind of answer does this tool give you
[https://teleport.org](https://teleport.org) I tend to use this site if I plan
to travel somewhere. Next month I plsn to go to Sydney to get a taste of a
remote lifestyle as well. All in all I think that San Francisco is the best
place to go as a developer. Loads of developers and open-minded people who all
have a startup-like mindset which really inspires me and has made me much more
confident so far. If you don't like the city you eventually go to, you can
always move. You sre never stuck in one place. Good luck on your searches :)

------
lukevers
Scotland (if I have to pick a city, Edinburgh). I don't really know what the
job market is there for software development though. NY is great because of
the huge market, but after traveling all over the UK (and Scotland twice),
both my wife and I would love to live there. There's not nearly as many people
as there are here in the US (which is a plus), and it's beautiful everywhere.

~~~
rossng
Edinburgh has lots of interesting technology companies: Rockstar, SkyScanner,
Amazon, Codeplay etc. The University of Edinburgh has an excellent CS
department and hosts the UK's national HPC facility, ARCHER.

It's one of the few cities in the UK that I would be tempted to move to from
Bristol.

~~~
dasboth
> _one of the few cities in the UK that I would be tempted to move to_

What are the others, out of interest?

~~~
rossng
Good question. Cambridge and Oxford have interesting technology but very high
cost of living. Bath is close to Bristol and part of the same city region. I'd
prefer to avoid London due to air quality, cost and commute. I would consider
other cities (e.g. Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle) if I find interesting
work.

------
thomasthomas
San Diego. Best coastal city that has warm weather year-round in America in my
opinion. Warm climate coastal city is my preference though. For the east coast
that really only leaves charleston and savannah. Those two aren't big enough
though. LA is too big for me. SD is perfect.

------
anon1253
Iceland. Clean water and air, plus practically "free" electricity. Developed
utilities and infrastructure. Small and mostly friendly population. The
natural beauty there gets to me every time I visit. There is nothing like
seeing a bright aurora, or driving through something seemingly other-worldy.
And…it might possibly survive nuclear or climate catastrophe.

~~~
handzhiev
+1. And I'd rather not go to Reykjavic but to some of the smaller cities. Much
calmer and more charming.

------
dvcrn
Seoul. The city is so damn modern and the energy of Korea is amazing. It's so
easy to get dragged into the fast-paced, high-energy lifestyle just by being
exposed to other people long enough.

Transportation is cheap, it's very easy to reach other places in Asia and
Korean people are very friendly (IMO).

If you like technology and shiny new things, Korea is definitely the place to
be.

~~~
ajkjk
Do you know the language? Is it necessary to in order to feel that life is as
fast-paced as you mention?

~~~
holydude
Absolutely. I would not say Korea is a good place to be in as a developer.
Mostly dominated by Korean corps. Some companies started my foreign ethnic
koreans. They are good and nice places but pay is ...mediocre.

Koreans are also a bit racist but if you do not mind it's fine.

~~~
dvcrn
> but pay is ...mediocre.

sure, it's no Silicon Valley but you can get decent/well paid jobs with a bit
of trying. My salary was even slightly better than what I made in Germany
before

~~~
holydude
I saw small/medium company offering 60k $ for normal position. How much do you
make ? What kind of company ?

------
madiathomas
Silicon Valley. High pay compared to where I stay. Companies based at Silicon
Valley are working on interesting products. Developers in South Africa with
University degree and 10 years experience and higher, earn less than $100k per
annum. No startups working on interesting products here in SA also. You are
stuck with big banks if you want to make money.

~~~
itake
my $0.02 on this is you can work in SV for 6-12 mo, then if you play your
cards right, you can transition into a remote role with your current employer.
Myself and other friends have done this resulting in 6-fig salary anywhere we
want to live.

~~~
abhimskywalker
Could you please elaborate a little on "play your cards right"?

~~~
toodlebunions
Be a good employee. Be valued. Be demonstrably more productive when you work
from home. Etc

~~~
itake
this ^. to add: Identifying a good company is also key. I work for a small
startup and am currently the only senior backend developer. I think being 20%
of the company and 100% of the backend helped my situation.

If you got a job at a large tech company, I suspect many wouldn't be as
flexible. If you want to work for a large tech company, I would find out if
they have any current remote workers.

------
CM30
If I could work anywhere? Well, in the middle of the countryside miles away
from absolutely anything. Always preferred rural life to city life. It'd
probably be much cheaper in regards to prices and rent too.

I honestly don't care what country, so long as it's at least relatively modern
in its conveniences and isn't a dictatorship of some kind.

~~~
jobigoud
> in the middle of the countryside miles away from absolutely anything.

This is usually synonymous with low bandwidth though.

------
fishnchips
Ireland. Lived there for seven years and I loved both the people and nature.
We eventually left to allow kids more time with their extended family, but we
miss IE so much. IT jobs are plenty and even though they don't pay as well as
in SV, you can still afford a comfortable two bedroom apartment somewhere
central, or a house 30 minutes (cycling) from the city centre. This is for
Dublin where most jobs are. If you manage to find a good job in Cork or Galway
you're even better off.

------
bevax
One place? I could limit my choice down to three for different reasons.

* Kazan, Russia. A big city with a great architecture, interesting people and a broad mix of cultures. Also, part of family is not too far away.

* Finland, mostly because I am interested in their education system and my child gets into that age… Otherwise it's also a tech hot spot, plenty great people and projects originated there.

* Crete, Greece, great climate, kind people, beaches, mountains (awesome nature), terrific food.

~~~
dmichulke
I advise Kazan (here pronounced _caution_ ) though:

Average low in Jan/Feb: -13 deg. C (~ 8 F)

Record low: -47 deg C (~ -52 F)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan#Climate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan#Climate)

~~~
uiri
Not that much worse than Minneapolis:

Average low in Jan: 7.5 F (~ -13 C)

Record low: -41 F (~ -41 C)

~~~
vram22
An ex-colleague (in a company I worked in earlier), who was based in
Minneapolis or somewhere in Minnesota, came for a visit, and told us that he
got frost-bite as a kid, and parts of his face were still sensitive due to
that, many years later.

------
gpvos
Canary Islands (assuming I can find work there). 20 degrees all year round is
the perfect weather for me.

~~~
vram22
How's the Internet speed and cost and uptime there?

~~~
joshvm
Internet is fine. The Canaries are a staging point for several transatlantic
fibres. There is also an extremely active astrophysics group on both Tenerife
and La Palma who shunt a lot of data around the world. You'll pay more for it,
but that's because Spanish telcos are a monopoly. You might not get 100Mbit,
but certainly 20M+ is normal.

Tourism isn't really a problem because the tourists stick to the resorts. The
upside of a flourishing tourist industry is that you can get dirt cheap
flights from all over Europe.

I've spent a lot of time in Tenerife. Santa Cruz, in the North, is a lovely
city. The weather is pleasant all year round, beaches nearby, the people are
friendly and the food is excellent. Accommodation is cheap and readily (and
informally) available, prices are generally lower than mainland Spain so for
most Westerners the cost of living is low. Most amenities are there - you've
got a cinema, large supermarkets, big brand stores and so on. Getting things
online may take a bit longer, I missed Amazon Prime.

You will almost certainly need a car if you plan on doing any kind of travel
around the islands. Gas is about the same as most of Europe, perhaps a little
lower.

The main downside for foreigners is that outside of the resorts fewer people
speak English, but Spanish is easy enough to learn. There is a large ex pat
community, though they tend to concentrate in the resorts for obvious reasons.

(Also Carnivals are great! Don't listen to the person who said otherwise. They
run for a week or two every year, everyone dresses up, gets drunk and pees
wherever they can.)

~~~
jaclaz
Actually gas is around 30 to 40% cheaper than - say - France or Germany:
France 1.42:

[https://gasoline-
germany.com/international.phtml?kontinent=E...](https://gasoline-
germany.com/international.phtml?kontinent=EU&land=53&einheit=Liter&waehrung=EUR)

Germany 1.35:

[https://gasoline-
germany.com/international.phtml?kontinent=E...](https://gasoline-
germany.com/international.phtml?kontinent=EU&land=238&einheit=Liter&waehrung=EUR)

Canary Islands 0.89:

[https://gasoline-
germany.com/international.phtml?kontinent=E...](https://gasoline-
germany.com/international.phtml?kontinent=EU&land=237)

Generally speaking I would say that overall prices are 10-15% lower than
continental Spain and 20-30% lower than other main EU countries (like the
mentioned France and Germany).

Of course it depends on where you go and which specific city you want to
compare with.

~~~
pvaldes
Yes, gas and gadchets (computers, cameras, phones, etc) are cheaper. There are
some fake imitations around also.

Respect to the car issue, even if its convenient to have one, you can probably
go everywere by bus or bike. Islands have a reduced sense of distances and are
a small world. Tenerife Island has around 70Km from one point to the other
extreme. Other islands are smaller. Some people love it, other go into
claustrophobic mode after a while. People often escape by ferry to other
islands or fly to the continent some days to reset.

------
Apreche
I'm already there. It's NYC. The only thing I would change is to give us some
tropical weather.

~~~
varjag
Been there only once for a couple weeks, but it's the best city ever, hands
down. A hub of many industries and the urbanite heaven. Having visited many of
the usual suspects referred in this thread plus some, nothing compares really.

~~~
cylinder
Believe me I don't mean this with any offense and condescension. But you do
need to live in NYC for a few years to decide. Most who do this will end up
leaving, but some really love it and give 100% effort to never leave it. I
would say it really depends on your job/career here. Good place to try either
way and it will open one's eyes and also help one figure out what they want in
life.

~~~
varjag
No doubt true, but same stands for about any megalopolis out there. In the end
it's up if the place has right chemistry for you, and yes, if you can support
the lifestyle to match. There's little point to live in NYC outside of
Manhattan ;)

~~~
omarchowdhury
So by your admission, the 6.8 million people living in the outer boroughs are
living pointless lives?

~~~
varjag
No, my point is that it's not worth moving to NYC just to live in Queens. You
can live purposeful life even in Aleppo, that isn't what the thread is about.

------
jraby3
Tel Aviv, Israel. Perfect weather and beaches. Beautiful girls. Amazing tech
companies and funding. Unbelievable nightlife.

~~~
carlob
What about the politics?

~~~
kelvin0
I hear the settlements are beautiful this time of the year. Seriously though,
it looks like an interesting place and quite polarized in many ways, I might
be wrong.

~~~
partisan
I don't have a dog in this fight, but why wouldn't this apply to the US, for
example? Sunny with a chance of drone strike and subsequent white wash, for
example. Have you followed the elections lately? Or the riots in various
cities? Or the record-breaking murder rate in Chicago.

Seems weird to me to bring this up here.

------
nunez
For me, that place was Texas. I finally made the move to Dallas and my fiancée
and I couldn't be happier. Great weather, great cost of living, great economy,
great driving and great people.

------
habosa
Philadelphia, PA

First of all, it's very reasonable. About 40% cost of rent compared to SF or
NY and food/entertainment are also much cheaper.

Second, I think it's secretly the best food city (per dollar) in the country.
Everything from the $7 cheese steak to a $50 dinner is great and you never
wait in lin or fight for a reservation.

Third, easy access to the whole east coast. Amtrak to NYC or DC before lunch.

Fourth, great history and a vibrant culture. The city is also very pro-growth
and seems to get better all the time. No NIMBYs.

Sixth, very solid infrastructure. Decent public transportation, great
hospitals, world class universities in the city, etc.

Finally, I like the people there. They have a reputation for being tough but
it's just a veneer.

------
gravypod
Middle of nowhere with an internet connection. I'd be pretty happy in Alaska
but living in Alaska is very expensive.

~~~
theli0nheart
I would love the same, but the the possibility of a sudden-onset life-
threatening health issue and lack of proximity to a high-quality medical
facility makes this a non-starter for me.

~~~
michaelhoney
Even five kilometres from a small town can feel like wilderness. These days a
town of 5,000 people can have enough to sustain life (medical and otherwise).

------
nathan_f77
My wife and I are quite happy in Chiang Mai, Thailand. I think I could
probably stay here for 10 years.

The cost of living is very low, and the climate is pretty nice all year.
There's a lot of good restaurants and cafes, and lots of variety. You can find
some pretty good Mexican, Indian, Italian, Japanese, etc. There's a lot of 24
hour coworking spaces and cafes to work from, and it's always very safe to
walk home at 3am. The crime rate is very low. There's also a lot of meetups
and things to do. There's a lot of cinemas with movies in English (and Thai
subtitles). There's bowling, ice skating, archery, paintball, and lots of
parks and hiking trails.

Major downsides are the "burning season" which lasts for a few months every
year, when the air is full of smoke. Also, the traffic is pretty dangerous.
It's nowhere near as bad as India, Cambodia, or Vietnam, but it's pretty bad.
Another downside is the lack of live music, theater, etc. You have to go to
Bangkok to see any international bands, and they don't come very often.

If visas and money weren't an issue, I have a big list of places that I would
like to explore before moving somewhere long-term. Examples: Hong Kong,
Taiwan, Andorra, Austria, Sweden, Estonia, Dunedin (NZ), Arrowtown (NZ), New
Haven (CT), San Luis Obispo (CA), Portland (OR), or Denver (CO). Maybe New
York.

------
mstade
Anywhere, anytime.

I'm generally based in Stockholm, Sweden; my home town and just generally a
lovely place to live. It's certainly not the cheapest, but everything works
really well and internet is fiber by default nearly everywhere these days, 4g
if wireless. People are friendly and the city is clean and beautiful. Driving
sucks, but public transport is great and runs all the time, so not a big deal.
I can take a ferry to get downtown, which is winning in my book. Plenty of
flight options out of Stockholm to go anywhere in Europe as well, including a
short hop to London, Frankfurt or Helsinki, which will basically take you
anywhere.

That said, I'm now currently in Florida, because January almost anywhere in
Sweden is cold, wet, and dark. I'll be working from here for a while before
heading back, at which point I might just go somewhere in south Europe for a
while.

My point is, I absolutely love Stockholm as a base of operations and summer in
Sweden is unbeatable in my opinion and I couldn't see myself anywhere else,
but I need the freedom to go where I want/need to be. Being tied down to an
office building again isn't something I could do and still stay happy – maybe
if I start a family of my own, but I have no such interest.

My life is generally more expensive and messy now, but I'm much, much happier.

~~~
jobigoud
Interesting. How does bandwidth work? For example when you are in Florida do
you rent a place just for a few weeks (can't stay more than 3 months) and
register with an ISP or do you stay at a hotel?

I'd love to have that freedom, I already work remotely, but I can't really be
offline for multiple days unless it's on purpose for vacations.

~~~
mstade
Typically I go to places like coffee shops and such that might have decent
wifi. It takes a couple of days of scouting to find a few good spots, but
there's always some. I also generally get a prepaid contract or hotspot with
whatever local cell provider is the fastest and/or has the best coverage.

I almost exclusively go to places where I know internet isn't going to be an
issue, for when I'm working. I do a bit of research beforehand when necessary,
but it's generally not.

~~~
mstade
I forgot to mention I have a couple of sim cards from various countries in the
EU that have generous roaming. Like Three UK which will give you essentially
free roaming (but not calls and texts) certainly within the union, but also in
places like the USA. It's not enough for tethering (indeed, it doesn't even
work) but it's good enough for keeping internet on your phone for things like
GPS, simple mail etc, holding you over between wifi hotspots.

------
davidmr
I'm genuinely surprised that this post is up to 214 comments and nobody has
mentioned Paris yet.

I have no idea what the practicalities of a life in Paris are, but it's still
at the top of my list. In maybe half a dozen visits, I've found Parisians to
be quite friendly for city dwellers (very much counter to the stereotype). If
I approach situations in my severely broken French, people figure out quite
quickly that their English is better than my French, and like most everywhere
else in Europe, nearly everyone under 40 speaks excellent English.

Maybe it's one of those things that looks better to an outsider than it is,
but the pace of life is very attractive to me.

I'm far less surprised that nobody has mentioned Chicago, but it's not bad
here. For a large city, it has most everything I want: great art, great
restaurants, etc. The cost of living here is obscenely low relative to NYC or
SF. For far less (monthly rent vs. mortgage payment) than friends who rent one
bedroom apartments in either city, we own a modest, but very nice detached
house in a nice neighborhood smack in the middle of the city.

Between the recent dramatic uptick in shootings and the truly shitty weather
in the winter (though spring and summer are glorious), it's pretty hard for it
to bubble up to the top of anyone's list.

~~~
blueline
nobody who is posting on HN will be living in englewood or east garfield park,
so the relative effect of crime increases in chicago is almost totally
irrelevant to their decision. It's a problem I want desperately to be solved
too, but not because I'm deluded into thinking it's going to affect me in any
way.

Other than the cold/hot weather, there's nothing more I could want out of
chicago. As you said, the cost of living in comparison to other big cities is
incredible.

~~~
davidmr
Maybe you and I have different interpretations of what affects us, but I'm
still affected if I live in a city with a dramatically increasing murder rate,
even if I'm not likely to be murdered. I have friends working in trauma care
at hospitals, for the police and fire department, I volunteer my time in
neighborhoods I don't live in, etc. More than that, I have a hard time saying
that the problems of people just a few blocks west of me aren't a) my problems
already, and b) likely to become bigger problems for me in the future. Maybe
it's all just misplaced liberal guilt, but I find it hard to ignore.

~~~
blueline
No, i'm on the same page as you completely, i just mean that the
representation of the issue as if the shooting is indiscriminate or random and
anyone is equally likely to be affected bothers me.

people that arent from chicago think it's a warzone. They're right, but it's
only that way for the people unfortunate enough to be living in the small
number of areas that are so disproportionately affected by it.

To me, it removes weight from the actual truth (that a proportionally smaller
number of people are being horribly affected by the violence) to represent it
as something that everyone is facing some comparable likelihood of being
shot/hurt.

It _is_ a Chicago problem, not just a south/west side problem, and I think
everyone here should feel empathetic and responsible for helping us all get
past the issue, but I guess I just don't like it being represented as if well-
to-do people face anything even remotely comparable to those in austin or
englewood etc.

------
tych0
I'm amazed nobody has said Denver, Colorado yet. The combination of big city
plus mountain geography is very unique in the US, but also anywhere in the
world I think (I've heard suggestions that Zurich is similar r.e. geography,
but the city isn't as big).

If you like being outdoors, this is the place. The culture here is exactly
that: to be outside all the time skiing, cycling, climbing, hiking, etc.

The only downside is that it's quite expensive :(

~~~
shostack
Visiting friends there in a week or so... Any suggestions for what to do in
winter there that isn't some outdoors sport or something that requires being
outside for long periods? Our friends have a young baby so we have a limiting
factor in our group.

Also, what is the tech industry like there and what neighborhoods are up and
coming but still super safe?

------
simonebrunozzi
I'm from Italy originally, and now live in SF.

I would go back to Italy in a heartbeat if I were retiring, or if I were a
software developer doing remote work. Great people, great food, great
history/culture, etc. I'd probably pick Venezia (Venice), one of the most
stunning places in the world. One of the tourist-free areas, of course.

The problem with Italy is when you have to deal with people for work.
Terrible. A nightmare. I would never do that again.

~~~
meekins
I'd pick some city in Veneto or Friuli-Venezia Giulia regions for remoting for
the exact same reasons you mentioned.

I was actually offered an on-site dev job around there once but had to turn it
down due to economic reasons and other commitments back home.

------
iammiles
Montréal. Having visited for a few weeks I fell in love with the city and the
province.

~~~
partisan
Montreal in the summer is really incredible. It feels like a big city with all
of the amenities. I've never been there during the winter, but thought of
several feet of snow makes me not want to live there.

------
illamint
I love and live in NYC right now, but I wouldn't mind moving to Salt Lake
City, UT. Political climate is a bit silly, but the outdoor recreation is just
amazing. Skiing, mountain biking, climbing, fishing... all in your backyard.
Cost of living is pretty low, but salaries/job diversity seem pretty low along
with it, so I'll probably stay with NYC for a while.

~~~
autotune
What are your like and dislikes about NYC?

------
sqrt
SF, Oakland, or Berkeley. My family and friends are in the Bay Area. The
weather is nearly unparalleled. The food variety is solid. Transit is not that
bad, if you compare the cities I mentioned to the rest of the US.

I guess the tech scene is decent, but the other factors I mentioned mean a lot
more to me. (I would almost prefer it if the area weren't as much of a
hotspot, actually...)

~~~
d1ffuz0r
Berkeley is really cool, esp downtown area

~~~
ryanSrich
Insanely expensive though, as is the entirety of the bay area.

------
alkonaut
For year-round stay: Southern France. Good healthcare, good food, nice
weather.

Alternatively (And this is something I'm actually going to try for software
dev in 2017): winter on the Canary Islands and summer in Sweden.

------
rsoto
Hiroshima, I just love the city. Although I would certainly not work there, as
the working conditions are a bit stressful.

I'll try to focus on my SaaS and have a nice, steady income to turn my dream
true.

~~~
dreamcompiler
Seconded. Hiroshima is a beautiful town. Small enough to be walkable and large
enough to be culturally vibrant. It has lots of water and great bicycling. And
even more (!) history than most Japanese cities.

------
bigmickey
Brilliant question I also would like the answer to. For context, I have lived
and worked in Ireland, UK, US, France, Germany, Cyprus, Japan and Singapore. I
really like Singapore for the low tax, great weather, amazingly safe and
crime-free environment (particularly appreciated by my wife) and tech-heavy
leanings - although if you are a political blogger it might not be the place
for you! It is also by some measures now the richest country on the planet
(GDP per capita). It has a reputation for being expensive but if you are
willing to live without owning a car (really not necessary in Singapore) and
not buying a property (artificially expensive for a non-local) it really isn't
that bad - certainly cheaper than central London or Manhattan. Hope this helps
:)

------
beowulf_cluster
Somewhere in Scandinavia. I don't know much about the area other than they
score among the highest on self-reported happiness indicies[0]. I'm curious
about what cultural differences are responsible for that result, and I suppose
I'd like to enjoy them for myself.

[0]: [http://www.medicaldaily.com/world-happiness-report-
scandinav...](http://www.medicaldaily.com/world-happiness-report-scandinavia-
worlds-happiest-countries-378453)

~~~
zoren
Living in Copenhagen, Denmark I'm not sure that moving here necessarily will
make you more happy. Maybe the results would be different if one looked at
what makes expats happy when moving to a new country.

------
micro_cam
I ended up in Montana. (Bitterroot Valley between Hamilton and Missoula
specifically).

Granite big walls and boulders to climb, powder to ski in winter,
microbreweries and relatively cost of living.

~~~
trafficlight
Oh hello fellow Montanan. I grew up here, so it's a little different for me.

------
formula_ninguna
No where in particular and everywhere at the same time because the beauty is
in moving around.

------
akvadrako
In a glass dome on Mars because the stars would look amazing.

------
rdl
If it were down to "had to work as an employee for companies in the local
area", I'd have a house in Woodside or Atherton, CA and work on the Peninsula
or SF. I hate the government of California and a lot of other things about
being in California, but for 10 years of betting on local companies only, SFBA
is the safest bet.

Bellevue/Kirkland/Redmond is my second choice, and I like Washington outside
of Seattle more than anywhere else in the US. Since I now have my own company,
I'm fine with it -- if I had to work for Microsoft, another startup in WA,
Google Kirkland, or something like that, I'd probably stay. Best overall blend
of startups, sane government, qualify of life, great culture, environment,
etc.

If I had the flexibility to leave, I'd be interested in: Beijing. Kharkov.
Israel. Berlin. Hong Kong. As it is, I just got back from a trip to Kharkov,
and if I had to hire a lot of ops/admin/tech people, it would be really really
tempting. I'm also interested in Utah and Tennessee in the long run, and
Montreal.

~~~
mrfusion
Where do you recommend in Washington?

~~~
rdl
Broadly, eastside -- Redmond, Kirkland, Bellevue, etc., but also looking at
Snohomish County. I nominally live in Redmond now. I don't like Seattle
proper, but do like the Seattle area.

(What I'm really looking for is a 5-10 acre property in King or Snohomish
County which has gigabit Internet, is not in a city with restrictive building
codes, permits shooting (hard in King County), ideally borders a hill or non-
buildable land on one or more sides, is on a decent road, ideally isn't too
far from SEA or downtown Bellevue and Kirkland, maybe is zoned Ag (I'd be
happy to do hobby farm ops on site), and is "affordable". That's possibly
overdetermined, though.)

------
justincooke
I just currently locked down a 12 month lease in Saigon, Vietnam. I've been
visiting here often the last couple of years and keep feeling pulled back to
the city, so decided to commit to being here for most of the time the next 12
months.

It's a "big" city in Asia without being massive. (Bangkok, Tokyo, Manila,
etc.) Great coffee shop scene, rooftop bars, restaurants, and friendly expat
entrepreneurial community/vibe. In fact, Obama came through a few months ago
and gave a talk at one of the co-working spots to some of the local
entrepreneurs!

Here are some good write-ups on entrepreneurship in Saigon:

[https://www.virgin.com/entrepreneur/the-worlds-best-start-
up...](https://www.virgin.com/entrepreneur/the-worlds-best-start-up-hubs-ho-
chi-minh-city-vietnam)

[https://www.coworker.com/lab/14-reasons-why-saigon-is-the-
ul...](https://www.coworker.com/lab/14-reasons-why-saigon-is-the-ultimate-
playground-for-bootstrapping-entrepreneurs/)

------
merb
Japan (not sure which city), at least for a while but only for a while (not
sure if I could keep up 10 years there). I love the culture.

~~~
dvcrn
Culture yes, but depending on the company, the working environment is not that
awesome :p Also it's very easy to feel isolated as a foreigner and seeing
thousands of people squishing themselves into the trains every morning doesn't
make it better.

Though the startup scene here is changing very strongly and bigger companies
from all over the world open offices here and consider Japan as the 'gateway
into the asian market'.

Give it a try! The dream of moving to Japan is really not that difficult,
especially if you're doing IT.

~~~
timr
_it 's very easy to feel isolated as a foreigner and seeing thousands of
people squishing themselves into the trains every morning doesn't make it
better._

I'm here now, have been for six months (on sabbatical; studying Japanese half-
time). It's interesting...sometimes I feel isolated (as anyone would when you
don't speak or read the language fluently), but folks here have been quite
friendly and supportive. I've found it easier to make friends here than in SF
(where I've lived for eight years). Inasmuch as you can generalize an entire
country, people here are forgiving and curious and friendly...just
shy/introverted and overworked.

The foreign people who do best here seem to be the folks who are a) at least a
little bit outgoing and well-adjusted, and b) don't have unrealistic prior
expectations of what "Japan" is. So many weirdo, socially isolated expats come
here expecting one long manga/anime/kawaii/samurai adventure that will fix
their broken lives, and they're disappointed to find a country of normal
people who work hard, have families and lives, and mostly don't do any of
those things.

Love the food and the baths and the transit though. Wish they would adopt
insulation. And decent cheese.

~~~
dvcrn
Let me elaborate on the isolated part a bit maybe.

I speak almost fluent Japanese but the problem comes more in the very strong
cultural difference that you are mostly not even aware of unless you are
indeed fluent and surrounded by people that tell you your mistakes (which
doesn't happen often).

It is (IMO) very hard to make 'good' Japanese friends (not talking about
occasional drinking buddies). People seem nice but (especially in Tokyo) often
don't tell you what they really think or feel. Being direct and honest about
certain things is just not the way things are done here, that starts already
at the language level and why you would rather say that something is difficult
than not possible (それは難しいです・・・, pretty sure you heard that already a few
times.)

Being direct as a foreigner and speaking in a direct way can work but is thus
because of the difference in talking and nuance further isolating you and
giving you the 'foreigner / 外人' stamp on your forehead, maybe without you
really realizing that it's happening. A side-effect of that is that you get
considered as, well, a foreigner. Maybe someone who is fun and weird to hang
out with but not actually someone who could become a deep friend.

Then of course you have the other group of people that are strangely open and
direct to you, but more than often that's the kind of people that only want a
foreign boyfriend or someone to practice english with and nothing else.

Sure, everyone is indeed very very friendly and supportive but that can easily
be confused with the polite nature that's rooted deeply in this country. That
can also come over as shy and introverted, but if the majority of the people
comes over as shy and introverted it's maybe not the people that's different
but rather you.

Not saying at all that it's bad here. I am still really enjoying my time with
a rough 4 years in total but it definitely depends if you want to be fully
integrated or always wear that foreigner hat.

~~~
timr
Yep, I'm familiar with everything you're saying. You definitely don't need
language fluency to know that you're being treated differently...just time,
and a bit of social awareness. They aren't particularly subtle about it. But
in my experience, this is also true of _any_ place where your foreignness is
advertised by your skin color or facial structure or height or whatever --
you're just going to be treated like a stranger, because, well, you are one.

I've met a fair number of long-term expats now, and there's a group who have
taken this personally, and now have a complex about never being "truly
accepted"; then there are the ones who have embraced their otherness. Those
latter folks are totally aware they're different, and they just decide that
they're going to be themselves, but in Japan. They seem to get along quite
well. I've met foreigners who run businesses, _many_ who are married, and even
a few who are involved in local government, organizing matsuri, and so on.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that it's easy, or that I'm in that latter group.
I'm just saying that I've seen it, and it's possible, and that it seems to
come most readily when you know and accept where you stand.

(Also...for the record, I've heard this _exact_ complaint from expats in every
country I've ever visited, including Europe. I was once considering moving to
the Netherlands, and I had a dozen lily-white expats telling me that the Dutch
are great and friendly and incredibly polite, but it's just _impossible_ to
make native friends. So it's not just Japanese people.)

~~~
spiderfarmer
> but it's just impossible to make native friends. So it's not just Japanese
> people

This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already
have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more
friends. There's also the problem that expats usually work in demanding jobs
with lots of competition and not a lot free time. It's hard to make friends
that way, especially if half of your colleagues are rushing to daycare to pick
up their kids.

If you were able to move out of that bubble, to a less populous / competitive
area, you might find much more laid back people.

~~~
timr
_" This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already
have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more
friends."_

This is always true, everywhere. Long-time residents of a place have a network
of friends/family that newcomers don't have. It's not unique to the Dutch or
the Japanese.

This brings up a point I forgot: most expats are young, and have zero
experience making friends outside of the social bubble of school. This is hard
enough if you're just moving in your own country, but it's worse if you're
moving to a place where you don't speak the language well. This is probably a
source of a lot of the complaints about cultures being especially closed or
unfriendly.

------
trgn
Leuven, Belgium:

small, international city, everything in arm's reach, looks stupendous,
young&sexy vibe, great college town rhythm, close to everything worthwhile in
Europe, high-tech job market, top notch culture in Brussels (20min trainride,
4x an hour). Expensive for Belgian standards, but it's a blueprint for
aspirational cities of the 21st century: human-scaled, wealthy, georgeous,
diverse economy, and centrally located in the global village.

Philadelphia, PA:

best urban core in the US: compact downtown, wonderful residential areas
surrounding it (old city, fairmount, society hill), great 19th century
grandeur, close to everything worthwhile on Eastcoast, top notch culture.
Primarily here because it is affordable and allows you to live a luxurious
city life on a normal income.

Lugano, Switzerland:

italian flair in Switzerland. No jobs, but you won't care in a place that
looks like the riviera nestled in the Alps. Great for outdoors people,
heavenly in all seasons.

------
smkellat
Pago Pago, American Samoa. Moderately good looking area, plenty of sharks in
the harbor. Lots of sun. I would need a satellite Internet connection to do
anything tech-based. There would be no hope of corporate espionage. Would
never be able to have time zones meet up for a teleconference ever again.

This would be as far south as I could go on the planet without being an NSF
scientist assigned to McMurdo and still be within US jurisdiction. Technically
would count as a very legal tax haven within the US defense umbrella. I
wouldn't be paying the IRS but rather the territorial government.

Yep, just need a good working satellite connection since the local broadband
isn't that great and I would be good to go.

------
legends2k
Hyderabad, India.

Great food (lots of multi-cuisine restaurants), warm for more than 9 months in
a year, cold otherwise but not freezing cold and a happening tech. scene. The
work isn't top-notch yet, but it's improving.

------
swah
While I would love to live on those places, I'm almost sure living close to
either mine or my wife's parents is a better strategy for overall happiness
and mental sanity... But maybe in 15 years?

~~~
cylinder
Heh, yeah. It is hard enough to have a dog without family around, I don't know
how people do it with kids. If grandparents are willing to help you save a ton
on childcare and both parents can continue to work, which increases your
income and savings. Fortunately my wife's family lives in a great city.
Unfortunately, it's 17hrs flight from my family.

~~~
swah
Mine is always around 8 hours (same country, no direct flight) :)

------
esalman
Boulder, CO.

~~~
dogismycopilot
I'm here. It's not that awesome.

~~~
avenoir
I moved to Denver about a year ago. It's all subjective of course, but I
really struggle to understand the benefits of living in Boulder outside of a
more vibrant tech scene and being a nice cozy town. The rent is ~$300-$400
more expensive. The trails are absolutely packed with people. There is beer
pong and loud parties on every corner in the summer. Yes, it's a little closer
to skiing resorts, but we're talking extra 20 minutes. Yet, whenever I talk to
folks there they seem to enjoy it while I can't help but feel out of place
surrounded by college kids everywhere.

~~~
saryant
If you aren't on the hill or a in a tiny handful of bars on Pearl, you never
run into the college kids. They mostly stay south of the creek, with the
exception of the dive bars on Pearl (and Absinthe House, but that place is a
dump anyways).

I've lived here for three years, go out every weekend and never once have I
seen anyone playing beer pong.

~~~
avenoir
Yeah, like I thought, it's a little subjective. I'm just hanging out at the
wrong places with folks there :)

------
kchoudhu
Granada or Cordoba in Spain.

Would need central air conditioning in summer though.

~~~
dasboth
+1 for Granada. Probably my favourite place I've visited to date, but the job
market doesn't sound great. If you can get a remote gig though, what a place
to live.

~~~
kchoudhu
My business goes where I go, so all I need is a stable internet connection.

The really difficult problem for us Americans is staying in the EU for an
extended period of time (90 of every 180 days only).

Other options I'm inclined to try: Santiago in Chile, and maybe one or two of
the smaller tiny towns dotting the Chilean coast as you head south to
Patagonia.

------
mindcrime
I'm pretty content where I am now (Chapel Hill, NC) but if I had Ludicrous
Money I'd love to have a condo in downtown Chicago. I wouldn't want live in
Chicago year round, mind you (too cold in the winter), but I love spending
time there.

I'm also partial to the Portland, Oregon region, as well as New Orleans. Both
of those would be pretty high on my list of potential places to live, if I
ever left Chapel Hill.

------
tim333
London. Dunno - I kind of like it here. It's quite an international melting
point. I hope brexit doesn't muck things up too much.

------
sadadar
I honestly love living in the Bay Area. There is a community for everyone that
fits their style, weather is good, food is great, lots of culture
opportunities, great for kids, all types of environments in driving distance,
international airport, best development community in the world, expensive as
all get up.

Live in Oakland and it's hard to imagine living anywhere else.

------
bnmfsd
I always remember the answer from my boss to this question 4 years ago.

I'm living in Europe and I'm working in the tech industry. We were in a
business trip in Asia with people from different countries and everyone had
his own different answer.

My boss, living and working in SF Bay Area, answered: "The Bay Area. I'm
already living and working in the best place."

------
pmontra
Anywhere with temperature between 25 and 30 C year long, no authoritarian
government, reasonable services. Remote working.

~~~
jobigoud
That's also my wish list, and I add "English, French or Spanish as primary
language".

That temperature range means Mediterranean weather, so the list of cities is
the following:

Barcelona, Marseille, Cape Town, Adelaide, Perth, Los Angeles, San Diego, San
Francisco, Santiago de Chile.

------
rdlecler1
I'd go to SF/Silicon Valley and look to buy a small starter apartment. Higher
wages can pay into high housing costs -- which translate into major savings if
you move to a low-cost city. You're also going to be close to some of the
world's best talent which should help you hone your craft.

------
rajathagasthya
London. A great city with amazing history and culture, tons of things to do,
other European cities are hours away if you want to travel and has a good tech
scene. Add to that, it has a fantastic public transport system and no language
barrier. And of course, you can watch Premier League games every weekend!

~~~
dijit
I don't know if you've lived there or not, but I'm going to assume you haven't
and give you my experience over 3 years.

1) Public transport is good, when it works. It often doesn't.

2) Public transport is good, until you have a job that has structured hours-
which is most jobs, as evidenced by the INSANE rush hour. 20 minutes in some
guys armpit feels like multiple hours.

3) You can't afford to live somewhere nice. I mean, I earned quite a bit more
than the average and was spending 50-60% of my take home salary on rent. And I
lived in a bad neighbourhood. (because I wanted to live alone).

4) Pubs have the same problem as the transport system, super crowded at rush
times.. spills into the streets, especially in the west end/theatreland.

That said, if I had the money to live well in London, it would be a great
place to live.

~~~
dasboth
That's a fair account of the reality of life in London. Of course the
abundance of jobs, great tech scene and endless things to do are all true, but
it's not all as good as it sounds.

I'd add one more:

5) Forget going to Premier League games every weekend, it's near impossible to
get a ticket if you don't know a season ticket holder!

------
russelluresti
Ideally, I'd work remotely and move around whenever I wanted.

If I had to pick a city, I'd pick Helsinki or Oslo. Scandinavia is beautiful,
socially progressive, has great education and health services, and is
conveniently located to the rest of Europe.

You just have to deal with the cold for 9 months out of the year.

------
jotato
Hanalei, Kauai (Hawaii)

it is my favorite place to be. The town is friendly. I love all the farms, and
there are plenty of outdoor activities to do.

Sure, it rains a lot. (Some houses are on stilts and the only road out of town
floods over a few times a year) But IMO, it is worth it.

Now to find an IT job where I can work remote...

------
cm2012
I live in NYC, but would probably want to live in San Diego or some other warm
pretty place in the usa.

~~~
partisan
I'm a NYC native who spent some time in San Diego for work. I was just
reminiscing about the weather there. I spent many weeks there over the course
of a year and had nothing but perfect weather to contend with. And the food
was great.

I'm not sure I could live there, however. The downtown area is limited and a
little run down. It also seems like you have to drive everywhere. The salaries
don't reflect the cost of living. The IT market was a little anemic, but
remote work could make these last points moot.

It's worth a visit all the same.

------
diego_moita
Victoria, BC, Canada. Fantastic food, great lifestyle, amazing scenery, close
to 2 big cities (Vancouver, Seattle), best weather in Canada, a growing
technology industry...

The only downside is that in 10-20 years it will probably become overcrowded.

~~~
joshvm
What's the cost of living in Victoria?

I was there last year and loved it (equally Van was lovely), but the rent
looked almost as outrageous as London.

~~~
turar
Ha, you haven't even seen the super-low salaries yet.

------
padiyar83
Bangalore. Great startup scene, amazing talent. The IT spirit of the city
almost feels like silicon valley in 90's. Also a lot of pubs and bars and
thousands of places to eat makes the city just a amazing place to be in.

------
coldcode
Hawaii, either Oahu or Maui. Provided I could afford a decent place to live.
There is something about green that I love. Other green islands like Dominica
would work too, though internet on some islands is not great.

~~~
jotato
Have you been to Kauai? Think Maui, but fewer people.

------
xj9
Seattle, WA. I've been in love with the Pacific Northwest since I visited my
great-great-grandparents in Eugene when I was a kid. When I visited Seattle as
an adult, I knew I had to live there.

tech + ocean + mountains = ️

------
PixZxZxA
New York. I fell in love with the city during my first visit this summer, and
even if I don't get to live there in the future, I really hope to get an
internship there or anywhere other in the US really.

------
tomdeleu
NYC. I think it's just a very inspiring place. But it's soo expensive so I'll
add a second; Barcelona. Why? Affordable, inpiring as well, and nice weather /
beach...

------
miguelrochefort
New York or San Francisco.

With their salaries, I could retire at 30 instead of 65.

~~~
cylinder
Have you looked into the rent and taxes in NYC?

As a determined single person chasing FIRE you probably could pull off some
arbitrage by renting a room somewhere far, but a more reasonable lifestyle and
raising a family, I doubt it.

~~~
miguelrochefort
Looks fantastic to me.

New York City:

\- Gross income: $150,000

\- Net income: $95,000

\- Rent: $25,000

\- Money left: $70,000

Montreal:

\- Gross income: $35,000

\- Net income: $27,000

\- Rent: $6,000

\- Money left: $21,000

Would you switch place?

~~~
hackerboos
Median developer salary is more like $45k in Montreal [1] and $93k in NYC [2],
according to Payscale.

[1] -
[http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Engineer_%2...](http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Engineer_%2f_Developer_%2f_Programmer/Salary/720cacaf/Montr%C3%A9al-
QC)

[2] -
[http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa...](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary/df029197/New-
York-NY)

Money left NYC: $40,000

Money left Montreal: $23,250

The apartment difference is going to be considerable. It's very cheap to rent
in Montreal.

~~~
miguelrochefort
My numbers are in USD.

$45,000 CAD = $33,500 USD

~~~
hackerboos
Mine too I did the conversion and Montreal's median salary is $60,000 Canadian
not $45,000.

~~~
miguelrochefort
My bad.

Looks like I'm underpaid.

------
profpandit
South Goa. Summer in Winter Beaches Low Traffic Afternoon siestas

------
dasmoth
Outside of cities, I'm pretty certain that I could be happy in most of the
not-stupidly-hot world. In practice, probably England/Wales for family
reasons.

------
ivcha
Belgrade, Serbia. A very nice city with balanced weather. Amazing nightlife.
Emerging opportunities in tech and startups.

------
hugs
Mill Valley (Marin County), California. Because of the Dipsea Trail. (One of
the best hike/run trails on the planet.)

~~~
uiri
I have to agree with you on the Dipsea trail. However, public transit is
infrequent and the commute to the city (nevermind the South Bay) looks pretty
bad.

~~~
hugs
The goal would be to not have to commute everyday. But if I did, take the
ferry from Larkspur to the SF Ferry Building.

------
ud0
Unites States of America. You are closer to more opportunities as a software
dev than any where else in the world.

------
askar_yu
Istanbul, Turkey.

Warm climate, fantastic food and friendly people. Modern city with developed
infrastructure. I lived there between 2011 and 2013 and enjoyed every bit of
it. Upon leaving, I knew that I would go back to live there again because I
loved it so much. However recent events and overall political direction Turkey
is taking is killing that wish within me. I really hope things get better in
Turkey.

~~~
jedilance
How did you handle the stress of traffic jam?

~~~
askar_yu
After one year, moved to a closer place to work (in a walking distance). Most
companies in Istanbul have shuttle services, so even when I had to commute it
was not that bad.

------
haskal
Mumbai, India.

~~~
sh87
Totally. Except its crowded. And expensive with the >10 year debt to buy an
apartment. And the insane traffic on undrivable roads and the daily squeeze in
the local trains. Hardly any tech scene here although tons of mediocre IT
work. And yeah the corruption you face to to even set up a LLC is mindnumbing.
Apart from these, its just great.

Great weather. Super supportive people. If you have the drive, you can get it
done here. Relatively safer than other parts of India.

------
md2be
Miami - only sub-tropical in the US. Not sure why tech and VC scene have been
absent.

------
karliky
Madrid or Barcelona, Spain

~~~
joelrunyon
BCN would be my answer.

Lived there for 6 weeks this summer. Hard to say how it will look in 10 years,
but it's an amazing place.

~~~
adnam
How do you think Barcelona might change?

------
d1ffuz0r
Moscow, NYC, Madrid - the most convenient places for traveling

------
nnd
Stay in the same place for 10 years? Sounds like jail.

------
wordpressdev
Dubai: because it is the nearest most happening place (in terms of innovation)
where I currently live. Although, it is very expensive to live especially if
you're self-employed.

~~~
vinaybn
AFAIK dubai has sales teams from different companies situated there but no
real innovation. Could you please elaborate?

~~~
wordpressdev
Dubai is doing a lot in the areas of digital technology, healthcare, solar
energy etc. There is a vibrant startup culture and entrepreneurs from other
countries are setting up shop in Dubai via the free zones.

Some resources on this:

[http://www.dic.ae/](http://www.dic.ae/)
[https://angel.co/dubai](https://angel.co/dubai)
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/suparnadutt/2016/08/22/is-
dubai-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/suparnadutt/2016/08/22/is-dubai-the-
next-big-tech-startup-hub/#aece33e3c33c)
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethmacbride/2016/12/29/dub...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethmacbride/2016/12/29/dubai-
has-300-million-to-entice-the-best-startups-to-worlds-fastest-rising-
city/#f3d127035d9f)

------
stevesun21
Hainan, China. Better air quality and weather.

------
daodedickinson
Wyoming. Only problem would be air quality.

------
andreyazimov
Bali

------
tempo-lempo
Bern

------
known
Nice

------
CptArmchair
Barcelona, best beaches with a fantastic city as a backdrop. One of the best
City's in the world. Great food, great nightlife, amazing vibe in general.

~~~
pzh
The pay is shit, though, if you don't bring a remote job with you. For
comparison, prepare for sth like 40k EUR vs SV's $200+k.

~~~
diggan
Well, where the cost of living is cheap, the salaries will follow as well (or
the other way around). Unless you work with a company in Barcelona and live
somewhere else, you're not gonna be poor (money-wise) as a developer there.

~~~
pzh
The point is that corporations practice geo-arbitrage all the time, and you'd
have to be a fool not to do it as well. Those $200k salaries are probably not
going to last forever, and it makes sense to maximize your earnings while you
can. For that reason, I wouldn't settle for a 40k EUR salary (especially in a
state where 50% of that will go toward failed social policies).

~~~
expertentipp
In case one is more location- than salary- driven, i.e. wants to live in a
non-ugly European city with decent infrastructure and human living costs (not
where fast-food pizza costs EUR 20) the salary EUR 40k (gross, annual) would
be considered a really good deal. Some remote companies let the employee to
choose the location but in this case they adjust the salary to local market...
and yeah the fact of very high social contributions in some EU countries on
failed social policies and with indistinct perspective of getting something
out of it in the future is really soul-sucking.

------
maverick_iceman
Santa Monica, California. Beautiful warm weather, next to the beach, big city
(LA) - everything that I love.

~~~
StavrosK
Multi-hour commutes, though :(

~~~
EduardoBautista
Don't live hours away from your job.

~~~
StavrosK
And your school, and your supermarket, and the good restaurants, and
everything. I don't think many people who live in LA would argue that you have
to drive for hours to get anywhere in the city.

~~~
CuriouslyC
I lived in west LA and I managed to find a place walking distance from
restaurants and a supermarket, and one short bus ride to Malibu/Venice. It is
doable.

