
Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? - bookofjoe
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/06/health/conference-room-air.html
======
JohnJamesRambo
I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two
people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410.

In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that
impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on
fresh from now on.

I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in
CO2 as the meeting goes on, and that would explain a lot of the horrible
decisions and thought processes that happen in there. :) I’m going to bring my
meter to the next meeting and see what it gets to. We are a group of
scientists so it won’t be awkward or weird. If nothing else it will spark
discussion and reflection on the decisions that are made there.

~~~
Klathmon
I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was
having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was
easily over 1000ppm IIRC.

Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for
15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house,
and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake
up easier in the mornings now.

Another surprising place that really high CO2 concentrations show up? The
inside of full face motorcycle helmets when at a stop. IIRC they quickly reach
as high as 20,000ppm! There is also some speculation that full-face motorcycle
helmets that stay closed in an accident are more dangerous in some ways, as
the high CO2 concentrations in the helmet can be really dangerous to an
unconscious person's brain function.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Helmets? That's interesting; I tend to open the visor a bit when at a stop, it
gets really warm in there really fast. I know you shouldn't try to take off a
helmet in case of an accident, but is opening the visor at least okay?

~~~
blattimwind
> I know you shouldn't try to take off a helmet in case of an accident,

At least here in Germany this advice is considered outdated and people in
(mandatory for driving) first aid courses get taught a simple technique to
remove a helmet safely (ideally with two people).

Reason being is that with the helmet on it is harder to monitor breathing and
impossible / very difficult to do CPR, and the helmet will also interfere with
the stable side position.

~~~
GuiA
It’s interesting to see how differently first aid is taught across countries.
Eg the last training I did in the US (California), I was surprised by two
things that I had not encountered when I was trained in France:

\- a big concern around pathogens - always have gloves with you and put them
on when administering first aid especially if the person is bleeding; use a
mouth dam for mouth to mouth and if you don’t have one don’t do mouth to
mouth, just chest compressions, etc

\- training first aid responders around what to do when a person needing
medical attention tells them not to help because they don’t have health
insurance (this point was repeated numerous times by the EMT training us,
saying it was routine for them to have to deal with it)

~~~
Diederich
Can you expand on your second point, if you have a moment?

I knew someone (in California) who crashed his bicycle on a curb in front of a
number of people. He picked himself up and had a bloody but minor wound on his
arm. But overall he was unharmed, just some surface bleeding.

"Of course" multiple people called 911, and an ambulance arrived in short
order. He had insurance, but he wasn't interested in getting in an ambulance,
he wanted to look after his bike while wrapping up his light wound, and then
treating it later.

I'm told the exchange was awkward to say the least.

~~~
HuShifang
Interesting. I'm an American, and once sustained a bloody but minor scrape of
my knee when playing basketball in China. I went to the campus
clinic/dispensary to obtain some bandages, since I couldn't find any that were
the right size at the nearby convenience store; there, the staff practically
tried to admit me, telling me that I had sustained a very serious injury and
that I needed to take it seriously and start a course of antibiotics. After an
awkward conversation concerning my refusal to take antibiotics without (what I
deemed to be) sufficient cause (being mindful and wary of the resistance risks
of an unnecessary course), and their belief that I was being disrespectful of
their medical expertise, I left with a bottle of antibiotic pills that I never
took. My knee was as good as new in a week or so.

Point being, medical cultures can differ quite a lot, even from locality to
locality, and the differences can be seen even in the handling of minor
scrapes.

~~~
Double_a_92
In China it's much more common to take antibiotica for minor reasons.

Also big (area wise) skin wounds can get infected even if they are not
bleeding.

~~~
Diederich
Correct me if I'm wrong: I think that a wound that is bleeding is a wound
that's, at least in part, being protected from infection by 'internal positive
pressure'.

My grandpa taught me that; to let wounds bleed freely for a while, if
possible, to reduce the chance of infection.

I wonder how valid that is.

~~~
Double_a_92
Sounds plausible. At the very least it's a mechanical cleaning. Small pieces
of dirt get washed away by the liquid blood.

------
ggreer
If it is, it's not due to CO2.

The US Navy's submarines are run with CO2 levels varying from
300-11,300ppm.[1] The military did plenty of studies in the 60s and 70s and
failed to find significant cognitive effects in environments as high as 4%
CO2.[2]

> Thus, CO2 at 40,000 ppm for 2 weeks did not affect performance on multiple
> tests of cognitive function in physically fit young airmen, a population
> probably not unlike submariners.

> A number of studies suggest that CO2 exposures in the range of 15,000-40,000
> ppm do not impair neurobehavioral performance. Schaefer (1961) reported that
> 23 crewmen exposed to CO2 at 15,000 ppm for 42 days in a submarine showed no
> psychomotor testing effects but showed moderate increases in anxiety,
> apathy, uncooperativeness, desire to leave, and sexual desire.

> In a 5-day exposure of seven subjects at a CO2 concentration of 30,000 ppm,
> Glatte et al. (1967) reported no effects on hand steadiness, vigilance,
> auditory monitoring, memory, or arithmetic and problem solving performance.

> CO2 exposure did not affect performance on the tracking task or any of the
> six RPM subtests (Storm and Giannetta 1974).

There's also an argument from biology. When sitting around, people exhale 4-5%
CO2. That's 40,000-50,000ppm. An extra 2,000ppm is far less than the variance
across a typical breath, and it won't increase ppCO2 in the blood stream
nearly as much as standing up and walking around. If CO2 hurt cognition as
badly as these studies claim, then even minor physical exertion should turn
people into drooling idiots.

It's for these reasons that I am extremely skeptical of the recent claims
about CO2 impairing cognition.

1\.
[https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5#47](https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5#47)

2\.
[https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5#54](https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5#54)

~~~
ComputerGuru
Thanks for that info and the links! I'm curious: Did you know about this
report prior to researching this particular paper's claim?

~~~
gwern
Yes. The question of CO2 and the difficulty reconciling Satish with
practically all other CO2 studies has been a question of interest to ggreer &
me since it was first raised on LW years ago:
[http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/nk0/what_is_up_with_car...](http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/nk0/what_is_up_with_carbon_dioxide_and_cognition_an/)

~~~
inflatableDodo
Was just reading that through and idly wondering, if that was the only
experiment getting such a result, and there is nothing obviously wrong with
the methodology, was there anything else by accident in the tank or gas lines
they used for the CO2?

~~~
gwern
Not the first explanation I would reach for. (What would have to be in those
tanks? Nitrogen would be very noticeable and wouldn't do anything, oxygen
would presumably help rather than harm, and so on.)

------
ccffph
Back in college, I worked on a project whose goals were to examine the effects
of closed room vs. fresh air cognition. The solution was a partnership between
the Architecture and Biotech departments to develop so-called "living walls"
to continuously recycle air. In accordance with this article, test subjects
showed improved cognition and memory working in fresh, low co2 ppm air.

I unfortunately do not have a paper but I did find an article about it and it
seems they've deployed it in real life with success:
[https://www.architectmagazine.com/technology/breathe-in-
case...](https://www.architectmagazine.com/technology/breathe-in-case-puts-
its-green-wall-system-to-the-test_o)

~~~
netcan
Is average outdoor air optimal?

~~~
Symmetry
I'd be surprised if it was, especially given that we evolved in a C02
concentration between 180 and 280 ppm, as opposed to the 410 ppm outside
today.

~~~
gvd
We are ending up being to stupid to solve climate issues

~~~
leadingthenet
too _

~~~
notJim
Oh god, it's already happening.

~~~
_Nat_
Plus the comment 4 levels up had "C02" rather than "CO2".

<rant>

I searched for why people do this 1337-substitution [1], and apparently the
justification's that "C02" can be quicker to type on some mobile keyboards
since "0" is a single press while "O" requires hitting Shift too.

But in chemistry, we'd often write chemical formulae in linear format. For
example, "H2O" is water while "C6H12O6" refers to some simple sugars. The
basic rule is that digits after any letters are in a subscript position, while
digits before any letters are a scalar multiplicand.

So, when I see "C02", I immediately parse it to "{C}_{02}" rather than
"{C0}_{2}". This reduces to "{C}_{2}", which obviously doesn't make sense, so
then I have to figure out what's going on. Obviously it's not too tough to
figure out from context that "CO2" was meant, but since I have to infer that
from context rather than from direct parsing, it comes off as an obnoxious
typo. For example, if someone wrote "C2O", I could figure out what they meant
from context too, but it's still annoying to have to be like, "What?".

Then I don't even know why it exists. I mean, who talks about CO2 so much more
than other chemical species to memorize a 1337-alteration that saves them
having to hit a Shift key? It seems like a rather niche micro-optimization
that certainly can't be worthwhile to too many typists, even if we ignore the
obnoxiousness it imposes on readers.

Which, _tl;dr_ , my point's just that "C02" might be a cute 1337 substitution
if you don't usually read a lot of chemical formulae, but if you do, it
invokes a parsing error that you either have to consciously resolve or else
memorize a new slang term to avoid.

</rant>

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet)

~~~
bsmith
Plus, the comment 1 level up had "CO2" rather than "CO₂."

------
mettamage
I just want to plug a client that I worked for that solves this problem:
Healthy Workers.

Healthy Workers is a Amsterdam-based startup that measures thing such as: air
quality, CO2 and consented employee data (e.g. their sleep and focus) and
makes an analysis what parts of the building have an unconductive work
environment and how this can be improved.

Conference rooms with bad air are the first problem they look at.

They are hiring for a head of sales and a product designer:
[https://healthyworkers.recruitee.com/](https://healthyworkers.recruitee.com/)

~~~
puzzle
Google has tracked office air quality for years, e.g. through the Aclima
partnership.

That's basically because Larry Page really, really cares about it. He's kinda
like your friend with a Kubrick obsession that can't stop bringing up facts:

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/727189428142235648](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/727189428142235648)

He was on to something! Jokes aside, I think he just has a heightened sense of
smell and that's why he had air filters stronger than law requirements
installed everywhere, at least in Mountain View.

~~~
Raphmedia
> I think he just has a heightened sense of smell and that's why he had air
> filters stronger than law requirements installed everywhere

Quite possible. I have a very strong sense of smell ever since I started
hormone replacement therapy and it's driving me crazy how people can put up
with some bad smells.

\- I can pinpoint mold with a surprising accuracy -- it's everywhere, you'd be
scared.

\- I can tell when a bathroom is not properly ventilated -- had the office
test it out and they changed the entire air ventilation system of that part of
the building because it was not up to code.

\- I could even smell if the driver in front of me is smoking in their windows
closed car while I'm driving behind it with my own windows closed -- changed
my air filters.

I'm absolutely certain that a lot of buildings are lacking in air quality and
if I were the owner of any industrial or commercial building I'd make sure to
invest in top quality air filter.

------
mrfusion
What if all of humanity’s bad decisions are caused by this?

Imagine if we started holding board meetings, etc outdoors and we fixed all
our problems. Maybe an idea for a book?

~~~
wlll
Also, it's a great way to make sure meetings don't go on too long, hold them
in the rain :)

~~~
sigwinch28
This reminds me of privy council meetings in the UK.

The monarch traditionally does not sit, and therefore nobody else can,
ensuring the meetings remain short.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privy_Council_of_the_United_Ki...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privy_Council_of_the_United_Kingdom#Meetings)

~~~
jonas21
The original standup?

------
wishrider
When I was a student I had a little room and one time I had a co2 monitor in
my room for a few days. The monitor had 3 leds, green yellow and red. While
sitting in the room for three consecutive hours (at the computer) the co2
would slowly rise from green to red and after opening the window for a while
it was back at green. Now the interesting part is that I felt a strong
correlation between tiredness and high co2 levels (I was surprised how strong
this effect was) and that opening the window really did help. Since then I
thought that every classroom needs such a device.

~~~
faceplanted
Would definitely be an interesting longitudinal study to put a sensor in a set
of classrooms, some of them with a your light system to suggest opening a
window, and some of them not being told about the sensor, which would just log
data as a control. You could compare grades and long term success in people in
those classes.

Even in the short term it would be interesting to see if it affects any
education metrics.

~~~
antcas
We should also pump in enough CO2 to equalize an open window room and control
for CO2 level vs psychological affects of a breeze and an open window.

------
TornTongues
I subjectively noticed that a "stale office building" environment prevents my
thinking, while a breeze in the open air is more intellectually stimulating.

Attributed this to the richer environment of nature, but it turns out that
there is scientific research that finds a correlation between cognitive
ability and airflow:
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S036013231...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360132318307406)

Short answer: yes.

~~~
closeparen
My office building is clearly capacity-planned for cubicles. As we pack it
denser and denser, the overload shows up in obvious places: elevators,
bathrooms, cafeterias, parking. But I bet we are also overtaxing the air
handlers. Might help explain why it feels so much more stifling now.

------
mcculley
I did some research on this:
[https://enki.org/2018/06/06/co2-monitoring/](https://enki.org/2018/06/06/co2-monitoring/)

I now am very conscious about keeping a door open and getting some fresh air
into the room. This is a challenge in modern, well-insulated buildings in
Florida in the summer.

~~~
drivers99
> Yesterday I carried my CO2 monitor around to various meetings in different
> places (much to the amusement of those with whom I was meeting). Every place
> I checked was at least 200 ppm higher than outside. In one office, two guys
> are working in a room that read over 1,500 ppm. I wonder if they would be
> more productive with proper ventilation.

That's worrying. Did you let them know? What was their reaction?

~~~
mcculley
Yes, I let them know. They are moving into a new office very soon.

------
neilv
I try to always have windows open at least a bit.

Boston winters sometimes make cracking open windows impractical, but if you're
in a typical old multi-unit building with old steam/water centrally-controlled
heating, there's a good chance that your unit is too warm anyway (though some
other units might be too cold). I've heard that some of these old heating
systems were even designed assuming cracked-open windows.

The main downsides I'm aware of to open windows here usually are outside noise
and seasonal pollen. For the pollen, you can run an air filter and HEPA vacuum
robot and/or (supposedly) install special window screen material for the
pollen. If you're in a very noisy area, that sometimes means opening and
closing window based on noise at the time. If outside noise at night or early
morning can be bad where you are, that might mean frontloading bedroom fresh
air in the evening before bed, but shutting window before bed.

I don't know about air pollution from fossil fuels, industrial, etc.

~~~
graeme
For anyone considering this in a winter area: you only need a window open a
crack to ventilate a whole apartment. More circulation happens due to the heat
differential (I think?)

In any case it has little effect on heating bills. My canadian grandma
actually used to have a window cracked open all winter, and she was rather
frugal. My own heating bills changed little since I started.

~~~
marcosdumay
There must be some shape that can work as both air filter and heat exchange,
so one could have ample air circulation while keeping the heat inside, at the
cost of having to wash it once every few months.

I wonder how expensive that would be.

~~~
graeme
There are heat recovery ventilators, but they require central ducting. Unsure
if any solutions exist for other dwellings.

~~~
l4yao
There exists ductless HRVs too. HRVs are generally quite expensive.
[https://foursevenfive.com/lunos-e/](https://foursevenfive.com/lunos-e/)

------
ctoth
I would have assumed Gwern would have come through and shared his results
already. If you're interested/scared about this, you could do worse than
replicating [https://www.gwern.net/zeo/CO2](https://www.gwern.net/zeo/CO2)

------
graeme
I have two of these. They seem pretty accurate, and respond quickly to
breathing on them, window opening, etc [https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-
Autopilot-Desktop-Monitor-L...](https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Autopilot-
Desktop-Monitor-Logger/dp/B01FYWU2IS/)

Can anyone confirm if they are actually measuring co2 directly? Some people in
this thread say actual co2 sensors are more expensive than this.

~~~
Open-Sourcery
That price seems about right. Many "CO2" sensors are actually measuring VOC
levels then extrapolating what the CO2 level probably is rather than measuring
it directly. You can see in the specs that this sensor uses NDIR (Non
Dispersive Infrared ) to measure the CO2. NDIR fires an infrared laser at a
specific frequency of light which falls into the absorption spectrum of the
C-O bond of CO2, this scatters the light; This dispersion is measured and then
turned into a PPM measurement of CO2. This sensor says it uses this NDIR
technique and so is probably measuring the CO2 directly.

------
pts_
Conferences which make you talk more and think less might make you dumber
orders of magnitudes more than any air.

------
cylinder
Funny. I feel weird for saying I can't be in our Quiet Rooms for long. They
have no ventilation. They are tiny. I start to feel sick and exhausted if I am
in there too long. Some people have groups of three meetings in there for
hours! How do they not pass out?

------
LinuxBender
Every property management company will set the recycled percentage in the HVAC
system to a different amount based on climate and budget. In my opinion, folks
should bring a Co2 sensor to work and then ask their facilities team to work
with property management to lower the recycled air percentage if the ppm is
too high.

You can expect them to push back and cite OSHA guidelines [1]

[1] -
[https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pel88/124-38.html](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pel88/124-38.html)

------
CodeCube
In a house with central A/C, does the crack under the door of a closed
room/office suffice for properly ventilating and circulating the air?

~~~
iscrewyou
That’s a subjective answer. I suggest you get a sensor and measure it
yourself.

I plan on doing that for my place.

------
w-m
How are CO2 sensors built? Can you make them small and cheap enough to put in
a phone, so I'd get a notification if the CO2 levels are rising?

~~~
humblebee
Most co2 sensors I've seen on Amazon are in the $100 range.

I found some good information though[0], and the smallest form factor (CozIR-
LP) retails at $109 [1].

[0] [https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/6010192-how-does-an-
ndir...](https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/6010192-how-does-an-ndir-
co2-sensor-work)

[1] [https://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-lp-ambient-air-
co2-s...](https://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-lp-ambient-air-co2-sensor)

~~~
w-m
Interesting links, thanks! So it's mostly an IR lamp, an IR sensor with an
optical filter and the air to test in between. I don't understand from the
article how long the waveguide actually is. Is this just a cylinder that is a
few mm long bent around a corner, or is this some hollow tube much longer
wound around the center of the sensor many times?

------
everyone
Hmm. I tend to always have my window open, no matter what the season (If its
winter I will just wear some jumpers) I can't abide stuffy rooms with no
window open. I also like to think and read and create and use my brain a lot.
I wonder if subconsciously I have been seeking out enough oxygen. I once went
on a very low carb diet, apparently the brain needs to burn glucose. Mentally
I did feel dumb / dull / numb after a while on it. Perhaps the same way I'd
feel in a stuffy room for an extended period of time.

ps. This is just more damning evidence to add to the case against working in
an office as opposed to remotely.

------
viburnum
Atmospheric CO2 will be 800 in what, 30 years?

~~~
antisthenes
No, but 500 easily. I believe it's growing at about 3ppm/yr.

800ppm is looking plausible by 2100, though, unless we take major steps to
curb emissions.

~~~
viburnum
Adam Tooze posted this on twitter just now:

[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5_zaDzWwAActB6?format=jpg&name=...](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5_zaDzWwAActB6?format=jpg&name=large)

------
CM30
Wonder what the effects would be like in a coworking space/open office
environment? Would the levels of CO2 be higher in the likes of a WeWork than a
typical office setup? I remember coming across one similar setup where about
30 startups were working from a basement with pretty much no windows.

Then again, wonder what it'd be like in the average subway train or something.
Even with decent ventilation systems it feels like the issue would be worse in
a packed train/station during rush hour, though the effects would be limited
due to no one actually doing any work there.

------
jedberg
I've worked in modern steel and glass buildings in the Valley, and I've also
worked in old (and drafty) converted warehouses in SF. I never really thought
about it, but I definitely get more tired in the steel and glass buildings
(which usually have inoperable windows).

I work at home now, and while my home is well sealed, I always try to crack
the window in my office to let in some fresh air. I'll have to make an effort
to do that even when the weather isn't as nice.

~~~
eveningcoffee
I feel sorry for you.

Sealed rooms only work with mechanical ventilation. Sealed room without proper
ventilation is a design failure.

------
rcthompson
I remember in high school, there were certain classes in which I always got
really tired. Eventually I realized they were the classes with the most
students stuffed in the smallest rooms. The worst offender, for example, was
health class (ironic in hindsight, I suppose), which took the place of phys.
ed. for one quarter and therefore had to fit an entire gym worth of students
into a single classroom.

------
HocusLocus
1\. It is not enough to win. Someone else must lose.

2\. Learn the distinct odor of fear. Pinpoint the source.

3\. Ask everyone to pull their own fingers before the meeting begins.

4\. If you have a video whiteboard, train the camera on it with a bit of zoom
and give your presentation in front of it so your moving form is surrounded by
a throbbing infinity of fractal shapes.

5\. Place a slow incrementing digital up-counter on the table and say it's a
CO2 sensor.

------
satyrnein
My kid will get nosebleeds if the air is too dry, so I run humidifiers.
Ventilating means I lose my hard won humid air. Any solutions?

~~~
goda90
Get your kid used to drinking more water. I used to get nosebleeds all the
time in winter as a kid and teenager, but I've since been a very avid water
drinker and my rate of nosebleeds has gone down considerably.

------
christophilus
Reminds me of this talk by DHH:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRqh8oLY7Ik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRqh8oLY7Ik)

His wife was literally being poisoned by the off-gassing in their new home. A
relatively inexpensive air quality detector (Awair) now helps them keep tabs
on things.

I've got an Awair in my office, and love it. When CO2 gets too high, I step
out and work from my porch.

For those asking about house plants, the answer in my experience is that they
don't make a difference. You have to have a _lot_ of plants to offset the CO2
that you produce.

------
newswriter99
I live in a badly-ventilated room in a converted loft with no windows and
constantly worry about this sort of thing.

Other than buying oxygen-producing plants (which tend to die on me when my
back is turned) I'm not sure how to alleviate the situation.

~~~
graeme
The only solution is moving. Your place probably violates housing code from
the sounds of it.

But if you want to be sure, you can get a decent co2 monitor for less than
$100. I use this one: [https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Autopilot-Desktop-
Monitor-L...](https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Autopilot-Desktop-Monitor-
Logger/dp/B01FYWU2IS/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=co2+monitor&qid=1557334844&s=gateway&sr=8-3)

People on this thread mention co2 monitors can't be so cheap, but I'm under
the impression this is actually measuring co2 and not o2/vocs. Can anyone
confirm?

You're likely living there as your economic circumstances compel it. I would
say that if the sensor shows a high co2 number, you should carefully consider
all options you have in your life and see if there is any way out of this
situation.

If the studies are correct about high co2's effect on cognition, sleep etc
then this home environment is likely contributing to keeping you in whatever
situation you struggle to escape from.

(If $90 is too much, you can perhaps borrow one from someone local)

~~~
ksplice
Have you tried running one of those near major road intersections, with lots
of cars idling?

I spend all day in the office with windows looking on a parking lot with two
intersections nearby. Considering how much it always stinks of car exhaust
right outside, I have a strong suspicion that ventilation that everyone so
praises here might not be all that beneficial. But $100+ for CO2 detector is
too expensive for where I live.

There are tons of papers on this subject (thanks Sci-Hub!), but the results
they report vary so much that it is difficult to draw any conclusions.

~~~
graeme
An idling truck on my street will fairly quickly raise my indoor co2 levels
unless I shut the window. You also get particulate pollution.

My guess is you’re right, and in your local area ventilation may not help.
Though it depends on distance from the road. Dissipation happens fairly
quickly with distance iirc.

Haven’t been able to test at a freeway, mm co2 meter requires an electric
outlet.

------
unwary_querier
Edutainment run down on cognitive function during high CO2 consumption
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nh_vxpycEA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nh_vxpycEA)

------
xfitm3
In my area make up air is required in commercial spaces, but it’s uncommon in
residential unless there is a giant kitchen with 1000+ cfm range hood. Air
circulation is running all day in most buildings I’ve worked in.

------
pastor_elm
One of the reasons I refuse to workout in a gym.

Would love to see what the numbers are for a rush hour subway car in NYC. Can
imagine it's a great way to juice your brain before the start of a workday.

~~~
graeme
Any idea what typical gym numbers are? I would have guessed they aren't as bad
as office buildings, as they are large spaces and generally have ventilation
systems. I'll bring my co2 monitor when I try the new gym in my neighbourhood
though.

~~~
pastor_elm
I would imagine it depends on the ventilation system. Not all gyms choose to
invest in installing something high quality.

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dontbenebby
I see lots of mentions of co2 monitors, anyone have any suggestions on good
models?

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xocder
"While the results are inconsistent..."

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beat
Is conference room air making us dumber?

No, the stuff we do in conference rooms is making us dumber.

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blago
A long time ago I received advice that if a news title ends with a question
mark the most likely answer is NO. Does this still hold?

~~~
NullPrefix
> Is .. Making Us Dumber?

NO! we were already dumb before the meeting.

~~~
ndusan-hn
Agree :)

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brilee
No. I wrote up the computations explaining why. See
[http://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/co2_closed_rooms/](http://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/co2_closed_rooms/)

~~~
Raphmedia
> At 5 millibars (5,000 ppm), you would start breathing at a 10% elevated
> rate, which you probably wouldn’t notice.

Wouldn't you? Won't you subconsciously notice and want to end the meeting
faster?

Imagine breathing at an elevated rate in a crowded room that lacks proper
ventilation. There's more than co2 coming from the human body. People will
begin sweating, farting, etc., and fill the air with all kinds of pollutants.
The computers, screens, dry erase board, etc. will make the situation even
worst.

I know that such a room will make me want to make quick decisions to leave
quickly.

~~~
duckymcduckface
You're referring to a psychological effect, he's referring to an autonomic.
It's the same way the you don't tend to notice your heart rate increase and
decrease as you move around unless it's major.

~~~
Raphmedia
The opening post was about a psychological effect to which this poster
responded "No. I wrote up the computations explaining why." and linked to a
paper which had as a conclusion an increase in breathing rates.

My point is that a crowded room likely has more than one causes which could
explain why productivity is lowered and decisions making worsened.

You won't notice an autonomic response but your brain likely will and it might
very well answer by releasing adrenaline, cortisol, etc., and make you more
anxious and stressed to encourage you to leave the environment that is causing
the increased breathing rates.

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exabrial
Please, not the open air movement again.

Edit: for the non-stewards of History that have no idea what I'm talking
about: [http://digg.com/video/what-was-the-open-air-movement-and-
how...](http://digg.com/video/what-was-the-open-air-movement-and-how-did-it-
almost-stop-air-conditioning-from-catching-on)

~~~
neom
That was fascinating. Little did I know the cinema is to blame for AC.

~~~
exabrial
Another interesting topic is the movement's impact on steam heating capacity
in the skyscrapers from the era. Has lasting effects to this day because of
overcapacity.

