

Microsoft patents "avoid ghetto" feature for GPS - spking
http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/01/06/microsoft-patents-avoid-ghetto-feature-for-gps-devices/

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prodigal_erik
EVE Online would seem to be prior art. The system keeps statistics on players
killed recently, and the autopilot has an option which avoids dangerous routes
(or those where you are _persona non grata_ for some local NPCs).

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hermannj314
This patent was filed by Microsoft in December of 2007 and according to
Wikipedia the feature you describe was added in March of 2009 to EVE Online
(at least 'change to auto-pilot features...' [I don't play the game so I don't
know])

Would that mean they are in violation of the patent?

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ovi256
Only if the patent applies to general navigation technologies, and not only
GPS.

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monochromatic
> The patent, written in a combination of tech-speak and legalese, was awarded
> to Microsoft earlier this week.

This must seriously be the first patent the writer has ever looked at.

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gerggerg
Wait, I thought you couldn't patent abstract ideas. This is a big bummer for
more than just the businesses that will be routed around. The patent is
essentially on just the thought of delivering a route based on anything other
than shortest or fastest. No novel or non obvious inventions are described. In
fact, no inventions are described at all.

This is saddening.

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monochromatic
Did you read the claims?

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gerggerg
They're comprised of a bunch of abstract ways of getting a route other than
fastest or shortest to a pedestrian. States no inventions. Just the concept of
route finding based on criteria other than shortest or fastest.

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monochromatic
They seem relatively concrete to me.

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gerggerg
Care to elaborate?

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monochromatic

        Claim 1. Computer storage media having embodied thereon
        computer-useable instructions that, when executed,
        implement a system, the system comprising:
    
        a search component that locates at least one information 
        source, retains pedestrian history from a plurality of
        pedestrians and addresses of at least one information
        source that has a history of providing reliable 
        information, identifies low quality information sources 
        that do not provide information used in route 
        generation, and blocks information obtainment for the 
        low quality information sources;
    
        a gather component that obtains information related to
        pedestrian travel including security information,
        weather information, and terrain information, wherein
        the gather component obtains the information from the at 
        least one located information source;
    
        an artificial intelligence component that makes at least 
        one inference regarding a route based on a previous 
        pedestrian behavior;
    
        a filter component that determines, based on the at 
        least one inference, the information that is likely 
        relevant and deletes information that is commonly of 
        little value in part through examination of previously 
        produced routes;
    
        an analysis component that determines an importance of
        the information to a user, estimates how likely the 
        information is to change, and chooses if the user should 
        reach a destination through a pedestrian route and/or 
        through a conventional route;
    
        a generation component that obtains the information from 
        the gather component and produces a direction set for 
        use by a pedestrian based at least part upon the 
        obtained information; and
    
        a resolution component that resolves a conflict between 
        an information source with a financial interest and an 
        information source without a financial interest and 
        instructs the generation component to produce the 
        direction set based upon the information source that 
        does not have a financial interest in providing the 
        direction set.
    

That sure seems like an awful lot of structure and detail for a vague,
abstract idea.

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gerggerg
Every one of those is an abstract component. Making up an abstract system.
There are no algorithms, no methods, no inventions. It's a collection of
abstract ideas.

The purpose of patents is to give incentive for the inventors to publish their
inventions publicly. So that after the patents expire the public can benefit
from the knowledge contained in the patents. This patent circumvents that by
only stating a collection of abstract ideas. Then they can actually invent
something and have the best of both worlds. They get a legal monopoly on the
concept as well as obscurity from the public of the actual invention.

~~~
anamax
> Every one of those is an abstract component. Making up an abstract system.
> There are no algorithms, no methods, no inventions. It's a collection of
> abstract ideas.

It's unclear why you think that "abstract" ideas shouldn't be patentable or
aren't useful knowledge.

Suppose you were the first person to conceive of a wheel, which is surely
something where disclosure would be of great value to the rest of us.

What would be acceptable-to-you claim language for a wheel?

Mine would be something along the lines of a description of the distance
between the closest point on the axle and some point on the contour of the
wheel, which is pretty abstract.

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nahname
That is actually quite specific. Try thinking of patenting the ability to move
objects via reducing the coefficient of friction. Not even specifying that you
are using a wheel or what a wheel is.

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meepmorp
Jesus. They really got a patent on abstractly using computers and data to
route pedestrians places in scenarios beyond time and distance based routes.

This isn't an invention. This is a conversation you have over drinks after
work that maybe becomes a product idea.

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monochromatic
They got a patent on the claims, not the abstract.

~~~
meepmorp
I read the claims. That's still not an invention.

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lesterbuck
At SXSW 2007, I attended a talk about Python code for Symbian phones. One idea
that the speaker threw out was having the phone start to vibrate if you were
approaching a high crime part of the city. I wonder if that counts toward
prior art or public disclosure of the basic idea of routing around dangerous
areas?

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paulhauggis
After driving across the US this past summer (and finding myself in some not
so nice areas), I thought of this exact same thing.

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Canada
How is stuff like this patentable? There should be fines for owning a patent
that has claims revoked.

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tryke
I would be interested to see if this works at all here in Baltimore.

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ChuckMcM
I was wondering if that was a statement on Baltimore :-) So if you're in the
bayshore (a pretty rough part of SF) and you ask for directions does it simply
say 'shelter in place'? Or maybe 'call for an escort'?

I totally agree with the sentiment that this isn't a patent any more than
patenting a TV that doesn't tune in Adult channels, oh wait, damn.

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seagreen
How hard would it be to provide drone support to out of their depth
pedestrians? That would be an interesting startup.

... Whoever does this please don't sell to Apple or FB.

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moheeb
You mean kill the civilians nearby the pedestrians? That would be an
interesting startup!!

Someone has been beta testing in the Middle East for some years now...this
tech can't be far off.

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seagreen
I was actually semi-serious, and thinking cameras and tear gas, not firearms.

CONTINUED Basically a private protective service for people that don't have
the money to afford live security guards.

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zmonkeyz
I'm pretty sure it triangulates by a combination of liquor stores, nail salons
and pawn shops.

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larrik
From reading the title, I imagined a fix for Google's habit of telling me to
get off the highway in the middle of the downtown of certain cities around
here. I always think "no, Google, that is definitely NEVER the fastest route,
no matter WHAT the speed limit supposedly is."

This is just for pedestrians, though.

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fedd
they'd better invent 'minimize number of left turns', novice drivers would
thank them

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daxelrod
While I can't be sure, I believe that my TomTom Go 730 gives left turns a
higher penalty than right turns when calculating a route.

I've seen it pick different roads to go A->B than to go B->A where the only
reason I could discern for the difference was minimizing the number of left
turns.

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LargeWu
It might be minimizing driving time, which would in fact give preference to
right turns over left, since you often have to wait for left turns.

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roguecoder
I remember seeing a paper that suggested outlawing all left turns except onto
cul de secs or where at least one road is one way would shorten driving times
for everyone. Every time I get stuck behind a huge long line of jerks trying
to turn left I think of that and seethe.

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lansing
Link-bait title conflates "ghetto" with "high crime areas". It's disrespectful
to the millions of individuals of various groups who have been forced to live
in ghettos.

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chc
That is the common meaning of the term nowadays. Many people are actually
surprised when they first encounter the original usage as the name for a place
where Jews were forced to live. I'm sorry if you consider it disrespectful,
but I don't think we should blame the editor for using words as they are
commonly understood. The modern usage does derive from the traditional
meaning, though — the idea is that certain groups are forced there by
socioeconomic conditions over which they have very little control.

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lansing
I disagree. The respectable "modern" variant of ghetto is still to refer to
people or things of a group that are constrained to a limited area. There is
the "gourmet ghetto" in North Berkeley, for example.

It seems like you're referring to the slang usage of the term, which is mainly
used by upper middle class youth when referring to things outside their
economic class and daily reality, is pejorative, and is often tinged with
racism.

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noduerme
I don't understand why lansing's being down-voted here. He's absolutely right.
It's pejorative when used as a way to reference a place where black people
live now, and it's historically inaccurate. The "modern" usage is all since
the late '80s; and it came from a term based on enforced ethnic divisions. The
fact that a lot of readers here live in parts of the country or the world that
don't enforce ethnic divisions along geographical boundaries does nothing to
change the fact that those still exist, even in the US, and they are still
enforced by white-on-black violence in many cases. The first question that
comes to mind is who puts the boundaries of these ghetto into the database?
What's Fairfax south of Olympic? What's 120th and Broadway? And the second
question is, would stores and businesses within those areas suffer as a result
of decreased traffic; what recourse would they have; and what hope would
blighted areas have of economic improvement if everyone followed a GPS that
steered them around the zone?

This is a disgusting concept and an insult to human dignity. It will turn
"ghettos" in the slang sense into more genuine ghettos in the historical
sense. And lansing is right to take issue with the term as it's used now,
because it's become a light, casual, racist and derogatory way to talk about a
certain area, which is definitely used by the white middle class as a stand in
for other racist words they don't feel comfortable saying anymore.

[Edit: The fact this was downvoted in _less time than it would take a speed
reader to finish what I wrote_ is pretty much proof that either someone's got
it in for lansing, or someone's a fuckin racist dipshit. Either way, fuck
you.]

[Re-edit: Not only do I stand by my comment, I think the people who downvoted
me are cowards. Respond if you have a response, and you speak enough English
to communicate it.]

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chc
Your comment, even with the edit, takes me about 15 seconds to speed-read (I
timed it), and it's short enough to skim-read in about five seconds. And I'm
not a particularly good speed-reader. And a lot of people will downvote
without reading the whole thing if they feel they've got the gist, though I
hope not too many. I think you need to calm down and treat people who disagree
with you more respectfully. Your reply is extremely heavy on negative emotion,
fairly accusatory and low on solid reason, and that kind of thing does tend to
get downvoted here. Hacker News tends to value knowledgeable, factual
commentary and reasoning on relevant topics over outrage.

Also, now you're complaining about getting downvoted, which is generally
against the rules here and will often lead to further downvotes (because you
getting downvoted is _always_ off-topic).

Personally, I think I would find some of what you're saying interesting if you
presented it in a way that's more informative and actionable and less angry or
defensive. Could this have a negative impact on those neighborhoods? That's an
interesting question. I'm not sure if it would (most of the people who travel
in the area _frequently_ will already be avoiding them), but it's an
interesting question. Unfortunately, rather than exploring this interesting
topic, you decided you'd rather hunt racists, which might make you feel all
high and mighty but doesn't really advance the conversation.

