
Opera is Reborn - riqbal
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2017/05/opera-is-reborn/
======
eis
The main driver for innovation and growth of the open web was that it is open.
The diversity we got from that was tremendous. Anyone could make a website
with whatever content they could think of and people all over the world could
access it. There was some kind of "web neutrality" in browsers. They didn't
prefer one site over the other. The second big boost came from extendability
and customizability of browsers through extensions which gave people even more
control over what they would consume. And on top of that, the browers became
open source, a big win all around.

Opera is going the other way. They have a closed source browser that directly
integrates some specific products into the browser. You can't completely get
rid of them, you can't integrate another product in the same way and I'd guess
an extension can't mess with these pre-packaged addons. It's nice that you can
have a messenger in a sidebar next to your current browsing page. But it's
taking control away from users and that's not the way forward in an open web.
Why can't this be an extension? Why can't it have a feature that lets me run
two tabs side by side so I can choose what products to use there?

In general I think this Opera Reborn is still far behind say Firefox or the
official Chrome. Just now you can change the filter lists in their Adblocker
something that adblocking extensions could do for years. Now you can change
Operas theme, i could make Firefox look like whatever I wanted forever. For
all the love that the old Opera deserved, I don't think Opera is the future of
web browsing.

~~~
ReverseCold
Vivaldi is a pretty good replacement for old Opera. Its based on the latest
chromium (updated within a day or so of downstream updates), and has a lot of
the "power user" features Opera had.

~~~
james_pm
I've been using Opera Beta for about a year now but with Vivaldi adding some
more of the core features that were missing in earlier releases (bookmarks),
it's probably worth another look.

~~~
aepiepaey
I tried Vivaldi recently and found it unusable. Much slower than other Chromes
(Chrome, Opera), and the "open new tabs adjacent to current" functionality is
buggy (something causes the tabs to open in an unrelated location).

------
Falkon1313
>desktops and laptops, while theoretically more powerful multitasking tools,
have been left behind

>Browsing and chatting simultaneously is cumbersome and inefficient now, as
you need to switch between tabs when responding to a message

Or, since we all have widescreen monitors (and often multiple monitors) you
could just have your messengers in a window next to the browser instead of a
sidebar within the browser. Seems like a solution looking for a problem. What
good is allowing messengers to reside within your browser other than that it
lets the people who are tracking your browsing habits simultaneously spy on
your messages?

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Or, since we all have widescreen monitors (and often multiple monitors) you
> could just have your messengers in a window next to the browser instead of a
> sidebar within the browser._

Except that - unless you're on a tiling WM on Linux - your window manager
sucks, and solution like this is barely usable (hard to keep the windows
properly aligned, hard to have them simultaneously on the foreground when
other windows come into the mix, etc. etd.).

I agree that solutions like that shouldn't be in browsers. But it's cheaper
this way for the app vendors...

~~~
tnone
I'm on OSX and it magnetically snaps windows together as they get close. Makes
it easy to divide ad hoc.

As for messengers, what would be revolutionary is if you could actually use
all these fragmented messengers in a single app.

~~~
marcus_holmes
This. So much this.

I want an app that remembers which of the messaging apps each of my friends
prefers, and routes messages appropriately.

If I block someone, it blocks them on all the apps I've ever talked to them
on.

I think I use over 5 messaging apps (including sms) on a regular basis. Too
many.

~~~
brianwawok
Considering most apps these days are a closed api that sounds terrible to
code.

~~~
oblio
Terrible to code? Possibly. Terrible to maintain? Definitely!

Look at Pidgin's struggles.

------
lucb1e
I'd like to try, but I'd probably not end up using it because it's not open
source. I feel silly for rejecting a product based on that, but openness is
important to me. Here's for hoping they open source it soon!

~~~
amiga-workbench
I don't think you should feel silly for rejecting it for that reason, its a
very valid complaint.

------
gagabity
This reminds me of an interesting thing that happened when I uninstalled Opera
VPN on my Android. After uninstalling it automatically opened up a browser to
one of those "Tell us why you uninstalled" pages that you normally see on the
desktop, this shouldn't be possible on Android.

I think they are doing this by having Opera Browser watch for uninstallation
of Opera VPN and possibly vice-versa and when one detects the other has been
uninstalled it launches the page, clever but annoying.

~~~
pawadu
How would this even work? The app cannot listen to system events.

(I also think what you said is against Google ToS)

~~~
zserge
I know that launchers normally detect when the package was
installed/uninstalled. That's how they refresh the list of app icons. And
launcher is just a regular app with no special permissions. I think some kind
of an intent is broadcasted when the list of apps is changed.

------
Kholo
Hey opera folks who might be reading this - work on simplifying offline access
to web content. I want to be able to maintain ~100 GB of offline data store,
full text searchable. Wikipedia, stackexchange\stackoverflow, khan academy,
zealdocs and whole bunch of other sources of useful browser renderable web
content provide dumps of their data.

And then they end up having to build spl apps and extensions and other garbage
that work around and hack cross domain/local file policy, just so the content
already on my disk can be read and searched by the browser.

When such a treasure trove of web content is accessible offline the browser
can and should be the way to access it.

As the web becomes more and more a corporate sponsored attention sink strong
offline support can be a valuable browser feature.

~~~
bigbugbag
There was a time when Opera was not a google chrome skin and offered indexed
full page search of local cache of visited page. This was incredibly useful
and practical. It also had the option to save the whole web page in a single
file.

Sadly this kind of feature disappeared when opera moved to a quarterly profit
based strategy.

The kind of feature you want is achievable today but requires a set of tools
beyond a web browser and some human work. It's also a bit tedious to maintain
up to date.

~~~
zacmps
This would be possible with a chrome extension. They can implement their own
search engines.

------
Jedd
> Social messengers completely changed our lives, by allowing us to work,
> discover new things and communicate at the same time.

Nope.

> One of its novelties is the ability to seamlessly hop between discovering
> new content and chatting with friends, or even share online discoveries
> while browsing.

Happily I know no one that uses, or will use, this new version of Opera - I
can imagine few things that would disrupt, annoy, and / or reduce my
efficiency (or enjoyment) at my computer than being subject to even more
random thoughts from the easily distracted.

~~~
sangnoir
> > Social messengers completely changed our lives, by allowing us to work,
> discover new things and communicate at the same time.

> Nope.

Considering how much HN loves Slack (especially when paired with working
remotely), I think you and I are in the minority. Some people _can_ chat and
work at the same time, apparently.

~~~
pwdisswordfish
People who don't like being distracted probably don't spend all their time on
HN.

~~~
sangnoir
There's a world of a difference between planned "distractions" (mental breaks)
and random interruptions: HN even provides a handy no-procrastination timer.

------
jug
I don't dare to use this since Opera got bought by that Chinese consortium of
companies I'm not accustomed with. Not sure if I'm overly cautious? I'm
thinking of especially Opera Link (which had a recent security breach to
boot!). Wouldn't that leave out my passwords to China? And I do want to use
some sort of syncing, I'd go crazy without anything there or some iffy third
party addon.

It's not even just about a trust issue with Chinese company culture. It's that
the Chinese government have ways of getting into even resisting companies at
their whim that are judged alright in completely different ways than in
Norwegian law. So; even if I trusted Opera Software, even if I trusted this
consortium that I don't know, even then...?

~~~
hd4
Let's say, worst-case scenario and this consortium of companies is heavily
linked to the Chinese govt. So what? Why would a foreign govt care about me, a
citizen in a Western country? For what purpose (other than to maybe sell me
stuff)?

It's for this reason I have considered using a Chinese/Russian email service
rather than Gmail, at least there is a chance they _won 't_ cooperate with the
local authorities if they ever want to clamp down on my ass for some reaosn.

~~~
brianwawok
Do you own a business? Perhaps have some closed source software product? Many
state actors would happily lift it from your inbox and pass it to some local
startups.

~~~
hd4
I think most people who either own or work at businesses _hopefully_ would be
smart/careful enough to not take this risk (for business purposes I personally
would only use open-source software whenever possible, and at least try and
encrypt sensitive emails or just use something with E2E like Whatsapp), but
people using internet/email for non-commercial purposes (i.e. the majority of
users) would probably not care what state actors did.

------
toyg
Funny for this to happen on the same week I switched my default browser from
Firefox to Vivaldi [1]. _That_ is really "Opera reborn", since it's built and
owned by the original team of Opera developers - which is probably why it's so
good.

[1] [https://vivaldi.com/](https://vivaldi.com/)

------
JimDabell
Why would I want a messenger application embedded in my web browser? What
advantage does that have over simply having it as a separate application?

~~~
TeMPOraL
If I can have it as a sidebar to the web browser, this actually solves
multiple problems, biggest of which is screens themselves.

Someone, somewhen, had that bright idea of popularizing 16:9 and 16:10
screens, which are now de-facto standard, and that leads to _huge_ amounts of
screen estate being wasted. Most of the users (i.e. those not using tiling
window managers on Linux systems) don't have proper tools to manage screen
space, and especially web browsers when maximized waste most of it.

So TLDR; yeah, I could use a messenger tab side by side with rest of the
browser tabs, because I have a shit ton of useless screen space with a
maximized browser window.

~~~
AlexAffe
Rotate it 90 degrees. 16:9 then becomes 9:16 which is a dream come true for
coding for example.

~~~
Shorel
It is not. It is too thin. I have done it.

It is also too thin to read comic books. Wasted space at the bottom.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
Yep, that's why I always buy 16:10 or 4:3 monitors, which work fine vertically
to read PDFs which is my main activity as an academic...

------
kmfrk
Opera's been rebooted more times than the Spider-Man movies at this point.

------
symmetricsaurus
Ok, so I installed it to try it out.

Trying to get the WhatsApp widget running it seems like I must allow access to
the camera and the microphone on my computer.

This is ridiculous.

On mobile, this is not needed, and is maybe even fine. When the app is turned
off you know it isn't listening or taking pictures.

On a desktop computer there is no such guarantee. On the other hand this
applies to all software I'm running. Maybe it's time to put a piece of tape
over the camera.

~~~
devopsproject
does your camera have an LED? It is supposed to be wired up in a way that the
camera cannot be powered up without also turning the led on so you know it is
active.

~~~
symmetricsaurus
Sometimes the LED can be turned off even if the camera is on. But that may
require some extra sneakyness.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
There's​ simple flag you can set now to control most LEDs on Linux.

Eg [http://www.0xf8.org/2009/09/the-shortcomings-of-the-linux-
le...](http://www.0xf8.org/2009/09/the-shortcomings-of-the-linux-leds-api/).

FWIW didn't work for my WiFi, had to use an alternative (modprobe.conf
maybe?).

------
romanovcode
Closed source software owned by the Chinese.

I'm no tinfoil-hat but this combination doesn't really strike as "privacy
focused".

------
Sagane
I wonder why [.* ]baidu.com, [.* ]facebook.com, [.* ]google.com and [.*
]yandex.com are in the default list of exceptions when blocking ads. Any
ideas?

~~~
funnyfacts365
Money.

~~~
Sagane
IIRC Opera has an agreement with Google to make it the default browser. I
wonder what they have with Facebook, Baidu and Yandex. Maybe the default
browser is region-based.

~~~
jacobr
Very much so. Google is less dominant in many markets where Opera is strong,
so the bidding between Google and the local search engines is probably tough.

------
aloisdg
Did they open the Opera's source? They are still more place for more foss
browser.

~~~
bigbugbag
They did not, but someone did it for them:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13417307](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13417307)

------
sprafa
Opera used to be amazing, a few years ago it had a built in RSS, mail and IRC
client, then even later (and right before the acquisition) they were still
ahead with their UX by having a "Read Later" section to the browser and
allowing you to easily customise and make folders in your "first page".

Now its just a mess and Vivaldi is not much better.

~~~
red_hairing
opera is not a mess--it is the best of the browsers...i use it as default
browser on my desktop...opera is easily better than chrome or firefox...has
far far fewer issues and slowdowns and freezes and crashes...opera is a great
browser...

------
T-A
_we bring you Opera Reborn, the first browser to allow messengers to reside
within your browser, without the need to install any extensions or apps_

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockmelt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockmelt)

~~~
8draco8
Vivaldi is doing that out of the box. Just drag and drop messenger.com on to
left app bar, then right click and select Show desktop version. Voila!

------
retrac98
Where to Opera get their money? Building and maintaining a browser seems like
an expensive undertaking, and yet despite nobody I know using or even testing
their websites on Opera, they've been actively developing and maintaining
their browser for years.

~~~
asherkin
Opera is licensed as the embedded browser that powers most set-top boxes.

~~~
pawadu
And gaming consoles and smart TVs

~~~
bigbugbag
Which gaming consoles ? Nintendo dropped opera a while ago.

------
eps
So chatting while browsing is the future of desktop browsing? Sounds rather...
unambitious.

~~~
toyg
It's also a simple rip-off of what Vivaldi already had, thanks to customisable
side panels - which, to be fair, is itself a simple update of what Mozilla had
back in the '90s.

If this is the best Opera has to offer today, they won't last long.

------
niftich
Are the FB Messenger, WhatsApp, and Telegram integrations official (i.e. known
by, approved by, and/or supported by their respective companies)?

Asking because I can't find a reverse-shoutout to Opera on either Facebook's,
WhatsApp's, or Telegram's blog. This is not altogether unusual (especially
given the recency of the Opera announcement) but it still makes me curious.

~~~
jacobwg
I believe Opera is simply loading the webapps for these services in a web
panel, so it's "official" in that it loads the official UI, but unofficial in
that it's not a corporate partnership.

------
TomyMMX
How is it possible that Opera got all my saved passwords and sh*t from Chrome?

I did not authorize this during install.

~~~
puzzlingcaptcha
You probably clicked Accept and Install. "Import bookmarks and data" is under
options in the first screen of the installer and ticked by default.

~~~
TomyMMX
Could be... but the design is such, that almost anyone will do that not
knowing what it all means.

~~~
9BillionMistake
This could be said about almost any technology.

Just because you did not look at the settings does not mean there was no
option. I get this from the elderly all the time, "Well how was I supposed to
know to click that menu first?"

------
LordKano
I guess it's time for me to be a crotchety old man again.

Opera lost me when the followed Chrome in the elimination of the menu bar. If
they haven't rectified that, I'll stick with Firefox.

~~~
xphx
What is a menu bar offering you that makes or breaks a program for you versus
several political, philosophical, ideological, practical, and technical other
differences?

~~~
LordKano
UI Consistency.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
You're not alone. Opera lost me for that reason as well (no menubar plus no
-even simulated- MDI), and it's also one of the main reasons why I use Otter
and not Vivaldi (Vivaldi does have a menu bar, but with non-native behavior).

------
steinso
So the chat program has to be on the left side, what if I want to move it
somewhere else?

Perhaps it could reside in a little "window", then it could be moved anywhere!
....wait, this sounds familiar.

/s

------
FridgeSeal
Pretty sure Opera is part owned by a Chinese consortium now, and to my
knowledge their revenue comes from ads and adtech. So not super certain how
private it is likely to be...

~~~
nomercy400
FTFY: Pretty sure Chrome is part owned by an American consortium now, and to
my knowledge their revenue comes from ads and adtech. So not super certain how
private it is likely to be...

~~~
H4CK3RM4N
That's why I don't use Chrome.

------
rcgs
I think this is the 3rd or 4th time Opera has been reborn in recent memory? I
actually quite like where they're going with the user experience. But who owns
Opera now?

~~~
bigbugbag
A mix of google who owns the engine opera runs on and a consortium of chinese
investors called Golden Brick Capital Private Equity Fund I Limited
Partnership who bought it from Opera ASA summer 2016 after they were prevented
from buying the whole Opera ASA company.

------
arca_vorago
Until they open source it I will not be touching Opera, despite some of the
features in it I really like. The future is open source, and Opera is not.

------
nonsince
I really like the concept of bringing i3-style tiling management to the
browser space, but why is it specific to messengers? Since most well-designed
websites work at any size, couldn't you just have a permanent tab at the side
of the screen of, say, twitter, or some browser-based IRC client? Admittedly,
I'd probably use facebook messenger as this tab anyway, so my needs are
covered, but it seems like a missed opportunity. Obviously more technically-
inclined individuals on more technically-inclined OS's have this already with
proper tiling window managers but Windows and MacOS users probably don't want
that system-wide and the browser would be the perfect place to introduce it.

~~~
nly
Opera had tiling some 12-15 years ago. By default tabs were just 'maximized'
to the full window, and they made it harder and harder to access with
subsequent versions. I'm not even sure if it made it to the latest presto
release (version 12).

Edit: the Wikipedia page shows tiling in Opera 1.0 in 1995...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Opera_web_brows...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Opera_web_browser#/media/File:MultiTorg_Opera.png)

I'm with you though. I dumped Opera the moment they became a featureless skin
around Chrome. Such a sad event

Operas best days were the early to mid 2000s

~~~
bigbugbag
Just fired up the real opera (v12.16 b1860) I still have around and use
occasionally to this day to test this.

Sure enough the tiling feature is there. Right click the tab bar and go to the
arrange menu.

~~~
maaaats
Vivaldi (by the original Opera people) has tiling.

~~~
bigbugbag
I find vivaldi is not really suited for my several hundreds opened tabs
navigation style yet. But I have good hopes for vivaldi and encourage people
to try it and even use it as their main browser.

~~~
thablackbull
> I find vivaldi is not really suited for my several hundreds opened tabs
> navigation style yet.

What is the solution you are currently using that you want them to implement?

Is quick commands (F2) + typing the tab name to navigate around not sufficient
on Vivaldi?

~~~
filchermcurr
Unfortunately the quick commands window is very slow. It definitely doesn't
live up to its name.

I love it, though, and I truly hope performance is something they tackle soon.

~~~
thablackbull
This may or may not be a problem specific to your own installation though.
While I don't have 100+ tabs, I've been using quick commands for everything
since I started using Vivaldi without any issues - it is very snappy for me.

~~~
filchermcurr
Could be. I've noticed it slows down more when you have a lot of bookmarks.
Ideally you could choose what type of results quick search would return. I'd
be perfectly happy only searching tabs and commands.

------
forvelin
Looks nice, but doesn't it look like that Opera is tend to reborn every few
years or so ?

Still, I was long time Opera user but so far it didn't feel same after they
went for webkit. This seems promising, time to try again.

~~~
nikita2206
If only they decided that their awesome email client should live in a browser
again. I still use Opera 12 solely for emails as their new dedicated email
client was lacking a large number of features in comparison.

~~~
pawadu
How secure is that?

------
polskibus
Slightly offtopic, did entire Opera development moved to Poland? Is that part
of new strategy under new owner or was it like that for a long time?

~~~
kleff
The core team in Oslo got laid off after the webkit switch in 2013, not sure
how many remained in the other teams. But as far as I know there is nothing
but sales and admin left in Norway now.

------
theprop
Reborn?! What!

Opera is now a combination of the Epic Privacy Browser and the Vivaldi
Browser. They copied Epic's privacy features and in-built VPN/proxy and
Vivaldi's social networking sidebars (which incidentally Opera pioneered and
Vivaldi's founder is the Opera co-founder).

------
mathw
Or even better, they could have made the side-by-side feature work for any web
pages at all as a more general layout feature, with some kind of easy access
toolbar to allow you to pop them in and out as desired.

I think "Reborn" is a bit of a stretch here.

------
znpy
Considering how much I use the web-browser, how desperate for market share and
money Opera is, and the fact that opera whatever it's called now is closed
source, i would never even install it.

------
fiatjaf
Why hardcode WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger instead of allowing multiple tabs
showing up at the same time -- two of them could be WhatsApp and Facebook
Messenger like a tiling window manager?

------
d--b
"the future of the browser" and the first 3 features mentioned are "integrated
chat", "new color schemes" and "new logos". Uh?

------
JustSomeNobody
> Browsing and chatting simultaneously is cumbersome and inefficient now, as
> you need to switch between tabs when responding to a message. We believe
> this needs to change.

Then:

>If you use more than one messenger, you can easily switch between them by
using our shortcut key for quicker access (⌘ + ⇧ + m on macOS, CTRL + SHIFT +
m on Windows and Linux).

So, why would this be any better than switching tabs? One thing about a
browser, I usually have my hand on my mouse and not the keyboard.

------
mrmondo
I wouldn't be so cavalier about promoting VPN as a potential way to improve
user security...

------
felixsanz
Cool, Opera innovates but Chrome is still the way to go. I want a browser not
a social app...

------
xbenjii
Some shady stuff going on in an injected browser.js file:
[https://gist.github.com/xbenjii/2048d8edf135b04790be593ee69e...](https://gist.github.com/xbenjii/2048d8edf135b04790be593ee69ec5e0)

~~~
Macuyiko
Not really. All of these are mostly user agent modifications to pretend to be
Chrome to make certain sites work, as well as some JavaScript event
modification (with a similar purpose).

The only "shady" thing is hiding the Chrome ad on Google's home page, though I
guess you can consider that as a convenience once you decide to switch fully
to another browser.

I don't know how easy it would be to pull an update for that file however, in
which case it could become shady in an instant.

~~~
neotek
Why would they need to update browser.js to do something shady, they can just
drop in a brand new binary that does whatever they want it to do and the vast
majority of users would be none the wiser.

------
ivanhoe
These moves that Opera now makes remind me a bit of how back in a day WinAmp
didn't know how to fend off the competition, so they've started integrating
tones of "extra functionality" out of sheer desperation... it never works

------
Markoff
Chinese browser with access to all my data I visit during surfing? No thanks.

~~~
tertans
American browser with access to all my data I visit during surfing? No thanks.

Especially because I live in America.

------
antisthenes
As a non-techie, this just looks like a closed source Vivaldi clone.

None of the listed features are relevant to me ("Animations", "fresh look and
feel", etc.) and my adblock performance is already adequate.

~~~
yoasif_
Isn't Vivaldi also closed source?

------
neillyons
I think if Opera had a price that would be a major distinguishing point from
the other browsers. Tailor to those users IMHO.

~~~
dorian-graph
It used to.

------
la_oveja
Telegram, FB Messenger, Whatsapp... No Slack?

~~~
steanne
presumably, slack didn't pay them.

~~~
la_oveja
I highly doubt that Telegram paid them either.

------
metehan
great solution to the the problem not exist

------
debuggerpk
how does opera makes money now? as per my understanding, pre iOS and android
era, opera dealt directly with device manufactures and sold their browser as
default on them. Since andriod, how are they even making money now?

------
ruleabidinguser
RockMelt 2?

------
tiku
I've used their browser since a year now, because it has better battery saving
than Chrome and some other cool features, like detaching video windows, built
in VPN. You can now even use all the chrome plugins with another plugin, in
Opera.

------
denzil_correa
blogs.opera.com throws me a security certificate error on Firefox

------
hoschicz
EasyPrivacy by default means blocked Google Analytics on Opera.

------
flamedoge
Looks like Edge browser with UWP sidebar

~~~
bloaf
I bet it can at least create bookmarks to arbitrary URLs though.

[http://imgur.com/FrXs6U6](http://imgur.com/FrXs6U6)

------
lilbobbytables
I feel some MSN Explorer nostalgia.

------
jameskegel
I was under the impression that the rebirth of Opera Browser was Vivaldi, but
it seems I was wrong. Bravo, guys. Nice work.

~~~
mih
True. For fans of Opera 12.x, Vivaldi is the reborn Opera. Though resource
heavy and lacking a few features compared to the original Opera, Vivaldi is
now stable enough to be my daily driver.

------
baby
No tabs on the side :( ?

------
b0rsuk
Browser for extraverts.

------
9BillionMistake
On linux desktop can my Opera Tabs be at the top for the screen yet?

No? Oh well, back to chrome.

------
zmix
Tragic Fail ;-)

------
goosh453
they should open the source already

------
bigbugbag
Hey this google chrome skin has made some progress since last time I heard
about it. It's still light years behind opera 12 and sadly will never regain
what it lost.

If you're interested in the actual reborn opera experience, it's vivaldi
you're looking for, opera co-founder and many for the original opera team is
making vivaldi and though based on blink engine too, hence limited and unable
to do exactly what opera used to, it has the same philosophy and vision.

The other alternative is the free software otter[1] browser aiming at
recreating the opera 12 experience.

[0]: [http://vivaldi.net/](http://vivaldi.net/) [1]: [https://otter-
browser.org/](https://otter-browser.org/)

~~~
nachtigall
> it's vivaldi

which is, well, another google chrome skin ;)

------
mtgx
I gave up using Opera for good once it was acquired by the Chinese.

~~~
robjan
Why do people say "the Chinese" as if Chinese people are some scary, out of
this world concept or they are some kind of James Bond villain.

~~~
jug
I don't really blame the Chinese people myself, it's the ways the Chinese
government is embedded in their industries whether they want it or not that
worry me, especially with a software like a web browser.

~~~
bigbugbag
You could have similar criticism of the US, see patriot act.

