
Google Launches Sidewalk Labs - resmi
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LarryPage/posts/M1twDYHaui3
======
Animats
Someone needs to develop a public toilet that's self-cleaning but doesn't cost
more than some houses. The problem is making it homeless and drug dealer
proof. SF has had major problems with their self-cleaning toilets.[1] Portland
succeeded, but theirs is armored to contain a velociraptor and provides
limited privacy.[2]

[1] [http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/occupied-san-
francisco-...](http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/occupied-san-francisco-
understanding-the-city-through-its-toilets-yes-really/Content?oid=2948873) [2]
[http://www.citylab.com/design/2012/01/why-portlands-
public-t...](http://www.citylab.com/design/2012/01/why-portlands-public-
toilets-succeeded-where-others-failed/1020/)

~~~
avar
Hasn't this already been invented? With the problem being that most westerners
don't like the solution because it looks unfamiliar:

    
    
        * You install a squat toilet
        * It's cleaned by flooding the entire
          toilet area with water, which once
          turned off all washes down into the
          toilet
        * No toilet paper, you clean yourself
          with water

~~~
jacobolus
The biggest problem is not even that it looks unfamiliar, but that the
majority of “westerners” have insufficient ankle flexibility to squat, due to
a lifetime of sitting in chairs and no experience squatting.

You might be able to build a squat toilet where the feet rested on a ramp
(i.e. raised at the heel side), though I suspect most Americans would still
refuse to use it.

~~~
thaumasiotes
You don't need a ramp to squat on tiptoe. I squat with my feet flat on the
ground, but I have been told that doing that is hard for most (US) people.
Still, Americans do squat. They just don't do it with flat feet.

~~~
vlasev
Have you actually tried pooping while on tiptoes??

~~~
thaumasiotes
No, for multiple reasons. But if you're looking for people with that
experience, I suggest talking to some American backpackers.

------
abalone
I don't understand the desire to do vague announcements. Why bother announcing
at all until you have something more concrete?

What does "time to get to work" even mean here? Doing what?

~~~
sidcool
This is a huge undertaking where public support and co-operation is paramount.
They cannot come out one day and tell people what they have done and what to
do. They need to give a heads up.

Is it only me or does HN take all announcements cynically?

~~~
david927
This wasn't an announcement. It was the announcement of an announcement.

------
NN88
Google is going to start building infrastructure. Rail, fiber, cable, etc.

All the things the US Government should have been doing

~~~
nulltype
Why should the government be doing it?

~~~
derefr
There's no reason the government actually needs to _build_ the infrastructure
itself—but since infrastructure is a natural monopoly (only room for one set
of roads, one EM spectrum, etc) the government needs to "regulate it into
existence", setting laws to incentivize cooperative building of neutrally-
owned infrastructure by interested players, rather than the natural monopoly
leading to a real monopoly/oligopoly.

~~~
timtas
The notion of natural monopoly, while superficially plausible, is an
ahistorical ex post rationale for government intervention.[1]

Any day now some guy or gal will visit my home to hook up my Google Fiber. How
can that be if if Time Warner Cable has a natural monopoly? Oops, I should say
that TWC, AT&T, DIRECTV and Dish have an oligopoly. Before you protest that I
lump guys who launch satellites together with guys who hang wire on poles,
remember in a dynamic world supposed natural monopolies are not safe from
substitutes.

[1][https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-
monopoly](https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly)

~~~
untog
But you're comparing apples and oranges. Are you seriously suggesting that we
could duplicate or triplicate all the roads in the country to allow
competition between private road companies?

(and your example is a bad one - here in my area of NYC, Time Warner
absolutely _does_ have a monopoly, I have no other providers to choose from.
So it makes sens that _someone_ regulates them.)

~~~
barney54
But the reason that Time Warner has a monopoly because the city granted them a
monopoly--not because of technology. Plus, politics and regulation make it
difficult for new entry into their market.

~~~
untog
_But the reason that Time Warner has a monopoly because the city granted them
a monopoly_

That isn't the case. Verizon have rolled out FIOS to areas in the city, but
have decided to stop doing so.

------
outside1234
I wonder how much Google does this just to get positive PR to hire for their
main businesses. It gives the impression that you'll be working on cool stuff
like this when you join Google instead of the rest of the 99% that drives the
ad hive (which is where you'll really end up).

~~~
mvgoogler
I don't know where you are getting this from - do you have any personal
experience to draw from?

It doesn't match my experience. In almost seven years at Google I've worked on
amazingly interesting projects - from hardware to user-facing products.

I've never once, in my entire time, had any level of management tell me that I
should be worrying about selling ads or monetizing my projects. The consistent
message has been "build great products".

So the notion that 99% (or really any majority) of developers at Google "drive
the ad hive" is completely untrue - at least in my experience.

~~~
mvnoogler
I have the personal experience!

I'm a new hire, and I got assigned to somewhere that doesn't align with my
interests, at all... other than the fact that it's "not front end."

Hoping switching is as easy as everyone says!

~~~
varelse
Former Googler here: After an epic blind allocation fail, my attempt to switch
to a project that made use of my talents enraged my manager and he reported me
to HR. I left for greener pastures shortly thereafter and HR has apparently
banned me from ever returning now that there _is_ relevant work for me.

~~~
mvnoogler
Oi. Hope I grow to love my assignment, or can at least switch "cleanly."

~~~
varelse
If you're a new college grad or just new to the industry, Google rocks. But,
if you have "a very particular set of skills. Skills I^Hyou have acquired over
a very long career" then Google will most likely arbitrarily assign you* to
whatever arbitrary team needs seatwarmers at the moment. And FWIW, my skills
were considered irrelevant to Google the year I joined, but suddenly _very_
relevant barely a year after I left.

*Unless you're an acqui-hire, and then Google once again rocks because you get both the perks and the interesting work.

------
curiouscat321
At what point is Google going to officially become a consulting company?

Right now, they seem to be playing arbitrage with engineering talent. They buy
up engineers with large salaries and fancy perks. Those people, who now span
almost every industry, are then used on projects like these. This has nothing
to do with Google's core business or any branch of it at all.

It seems like Google is designing all sorts of products outside of its core
competency (medicine, cars, now this?) with the hopes of either spinning it
off, selling to the highest bidder, or...? I can't see shareholders liking
Google trying to enter every market in the world.

~~~
VikingCoder
> Right now, they seem to be playing arbitrage with engineering talent.

I think the actual problem is that very few other companies know how to make
appropriate use of engineers.

"Robert, you said this sprint that you would move the logo image 2 pixels to
the left. Can you PLEASE come to the morning stand-up, listen to 26 people
report their status, and then tell us if you have any roadblocks? kthx."

~~~
mariojv
I laughed really hard at this. Have been in some hour-long "standups." :) IRC
standups are pretty nice.

------
vicpara
*Larry Page said: “By improving urban technology, it’s possible to significantly improve the lives of billions of people around the world. With Sidewalk, we want to supercharge existing efforts in areas such as housing, energy, transportation and government to solve real problems that city-dwellers face every day. Every time I talk with Dan I feel an amazing sense of opportunity because of his passion for all the ways technology can help transform cities to be more livable, flexible and vibrant. And when you combine that with his experience as an investor, in NYC government, and as CEO of the large information company Bloomberg LP, I can’t imagine a better person to lead these efforts.”

Let's get serious. This initiative is not about toilets, smart flushing and
homeless.

I'm fine with it as long as I don't have to have anything always connected to
internet, sync data in the cloud and be forced to agree/manage/monitor
gazillions of privacy changes, terms and conditions where companies decide to
update and change their data protection acts, the ways the share, store and
manipulate my data.

Maybe we should firmly keep big technology companies, already in tune with the
NSA friends, get closer to our families and private lives. The last thing I'd
want is Google, Bloomberg, IBM, Facebook and Cisco circulating all my
activities (toilet flushes including) for the sake of my children, future
nephews and my neighbours to NSA, have my own cars or my own house lock me out
because Palantir discovered about my passion for Moroccan tea or my kid flies
a Chinese quadcopter in the backyard.

------
steeples
Without attacking Google, the consensus is that Google Launches {Project} is
not anymore news than it is a long sigh and a jaded response of "Oh Google
just launched another project, go Google. Now to work on my side project".

------
harigov
It's interesting that Google chooses to create new companies for problems
orthogonal to its core purpose, instead of choosing to diversify itself as a
company into multiple industries. Is this a common phenomenon or is it
something that is new?

~~~
colinbartlett
That is interesting indeed. You didn't see Apple Computer, Inc. spinning up
Apple Mobile Technologies, Inc. after the iPod and iPhone success. They simply
pivoted (to use a maligned term) their company and mission to Apple, Inc.

------
vowelless
Sorry for OT but why is google plus not responsive?!?

Sometimes I have to increase the size of the page to ease my reading. This is
what I get:

[http://puu.sh/iklL3/08aa3d3563.png](http://puu.sh/iklL3/08aa3d3563.png)

And I can't even scroll to the right! Is there something wrong with my chrome
configuration (maybe a plugin not playing nice)? Or can someone else repro
this on their mac?

~~~
jeremydw
I can reproduce it. In order to fix it, I have to refresh the page. Happens on
my Mac all the time when accessing G+ from a browser window that may be a
different size from the browser window I previously used to access G+ in
another session.

------
bsbechtel
So if you choose to live in X urban area, could you potentially be forced into
using Google technology because of where you live?

~~~
filiwickers
That is probably already true of other companies. The systems that run the
traffic lights may be run by IBM, train routes may be overseen by Cisco, etc.

------
therealmarv
So they targeting companies like Siemens now? They do not make public
transportation systems, they do not make energy systems, they do not build
houses.

[http://w3.siemens.com/topics/global/en/intelligent-
infrastru...](http://w3.siemens.com/topics/global/en/intelligent-
infrastructure/pages/intelligent-infrastructure.aspx)

[http://w1.siemens.com.cn/sustainable-city-en/sustainable-
cit...](http://w1.siemens.com.cn/sustainable-city-en/sustainable-city.html)

~~~
minthd
I don't think the word "Targeting" is correct. Google has unique innovation
skills, and they are willing to use them to collaborate with others who are
willing to innovate. Only unless said companies(say ISP's) aren't willing to
innovate, they'll be a threat.

At least that seems the general theme at Google.

~~~
Dwolb
Not sure you really addressed why 'Targeting' isn't correct. Just because they
have unique skills doesn't mean they can't target someone's business.

------
chvid
From their homepage: "By 2050, the population in cities will double,
intensifying existing socioeconomic, public health and environmental
problems."

Yes.

People move into a few big cities because companies companies like Google
congregate there, ultimately creating problems such as skyrocketing rents,
congestion, declining real living standards, homelessness.

Google holds an obvious solution in its hand. By altering their way of working
they could support remote working, creating clusters of specialized work
forces and communities online rather than in a narrow physical location.

~~~
vlasev
If you look at settlements from a scaling point of view you will inevitably
find that not only are larger cities more efficient structures but they lead
to an improved quality of life. This is not just because of "companies like
Google". Here are some slides
([http://www.complexcity.info/files/2011/12/BATTY-Scaling-
Laws...](http://www.complexcity.info/files/2011/12/BATTY-Scaling-Laws-For-
Cities.pdf)) and a TED talk
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyCY6mjWOPc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyCY6mjWOPc)).

~~~
filiwickers
Yes, large cities make humans more productive! It's not necessarily intuitive
but more interactions leads to more innovations.

(Shameless Plug) You can read a bit more about the research in the TED talk
here: [http://santafe.edu/research/cities-scaling-and-
sustainabilit...](http://santafe.edu/research/cities-scaling-and-
sustainability/)

Our research group (started by Geoffrey West & Luis Bettencourt) is also
trying to understand (and help address) the issues of growing cities in the
developing world, where the biggest issue are slums:
[http://santafe.edu/research/informal-
settlements/](http://santafe.edu/research/informal-settlements/)

------
sidcool
People comparing Apple and Google on everything forget that both companies are
very different in their missions. It's not about right and wrong, it's just
different.

~~~
skidoo
Making money is agenda number one for both companies regardless of what their
respective PR departments say.

~~~
rokhayakebe
If you must make money to pay for your living and take care of your spouse and
kids so that they may have a better future than the life you have lived, is
your agenda number one to make money regardless of what you tell your friends
you are working for?

~~~
skidoo
No it's not. You can support your family without enabling an evil corporation
in sneaking billions in tax evasion schemes. Greed destroys. Capitalism
destroys. No paint job fixes that.

~~~
zeroxfe
> Capitalism destroys.

All systems destroy. Destruction is a natural phenomenon. The difference is
that capitalism creates more than it destroys, and (empirically) creates more
than any other economic system.

> Greed destroys.

On greed:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A)

------
peter303
Google is bassically just five products- search, ads, gmail, youtube and
android. Anything else is just roundoff error, even though they may be very
interesting.

~~~
JCordeiro
and Google Maps

------
sharp11
This is visionary. We are becoming a predominantly urban species and there are
incredible tech opportunities both from a business and from a social benefit
perspective. Walkscore, Bikewise and Open311 are a few examples that come to
mind, but that's just tip of the iceberg. After the internet-of-things, the
internet-of-habitat is coming. It's brilliant that Google wants to help invent
it.

------
Swannie
Microsoft, IBM, GE, Siemans, and even companies like Cisco, Rockwell and
others have all been making moves here.

Nice to see Google finally joining the rest of the tech industry ;-) I have to
assume this was prompted by the sort of standards work Nest were doing, and
the sort of impact that Google Maps is having on traffic.

------
gull
From [http://www.sidewalkinc.com/](http://www.sidewalkinc.com/): _" By 2050,
the population in cities will double"_

Is the best solution a frontal attack? Or could it be moving away from
existing cities?

Could one design a new city from scratch?

~~~
jarek
> Could one design a new city from scratch?

Yes, but the result is Milton Keynes.

~~~
gull
Thanks for Milton Keynes but that can't be the only result in the whole world.

One proposal is Arcosanti, an urban laboratory focused on innovative design,
community, and environmental accountability.
[https://arcosanti.org/](https://arcosanti.org/)

~~~
jarek
With all due respect to the project, I don't consider a 150-person community a
city. Letchworth is closer but it's still not going to tip the scales or
become a second Newcastle or London anytime soon.

------
vuyani
Google: Serving you ads, in every corner of the city.

------
pjc50
They mention public transport. Does this mean "google buses" for everyone, or
is that still going to be a sore point in SF?

------
yalogin
When Google killed off a lot of its technology projects the assumption was
Page and Brin listened to the Jobs' advice to focus on fewer products. But
then they started announcing a bunch of these other projects that are not
directly related to their core products.

Isn't Google better off just running and maintaining those other projects they
killed?

I am not saying these are bad but from an investor point of view only a small
number of them make sense.

~~~
exacube
I don't think Larry and Sergey are interested in upping their $$$ status to
$$$$. They are pure technology enthusiasts and want to change the world with
it, and they use their money printing machine as the enabling engine.

