
Millions of Americans Flood into Mexico for Health Care - howard941
https://truthout.org/articles/millions-of-americans-flood-into-mexico-for-health-care/
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noonespecial
The rhetoric in this article is disingenuous. Regardless of your political
persuasion, there is an enormous difference between someone walking across the
border for a single day to purchase a good or service in another country and
an economic refugee seeking permanent or semi-permanent resettlement in a host
nation.

Americans heading for Cancun are not "vacation refugees" either.

~~~
pacofvf
We have socialized health care, so you may think that you spend some dollars
on the Mexican economy but, the American Caravan distorts our markets and
drive prices up.

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kingofhdds
All kinds of foreign tourists drive prices up for a lot of things, but
nevertheless they really bring money to Mexican economy.

~~~
pacofvf
But tourists drive prices up for markets that aren't regulated like hotels or
restaurants, Healthcare is regulated and we will probably see some kind of
legislation towards this issue with the new Mexican government, it probably
will make it even cheaper for you guys to come here but you will have to
enroll on our socialized healthcare.

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theredbox
I am from Central Europe and I opt for a private doctor (meaning I pay for all
of it) and while it is insanely cheaper here compared to the US trust me that
the "free healthcare" is a myth in a sense it is not a silver bullet.

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dominotw
> I opt for a private doctor

curious. why?

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conanbatt
Socialized systems can engage in agressive cost-cutting, meaning that the poor
use the public system and the better off private system. Thats how it is in
argentina as well.

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r-s
I am a Canadian and I have traveled to Mexico for dental care multiple times.
It worked out way cheaper cheaper, and I got some nice vacations out of it. I
have heard horror stories but my experience has been great.

For those unaware, Canadians do not have universal dental care. It can be very
expensive here, when the Canadian dollar was stronger I knew people traveling
to the USA.

~~~
shados
I lost a few teeth because of lack of dental insurance in Canada. Some
companies provide it as a benefit, but they're far and few in between.

It's not too surprising, either: since you have universal healthcare, a lot
more companies don't provide insurance (which would be complementary). In the
US, it's definitely not the norm to have dental insurance, but it is to have
insurance as a benefit, at which point dental is just an add-on for companies
to provide (I'm obviously oversimplifying).

I've never worked for a company in the US that didn't provide dental (even
though I know it is common-ish), but in Canada I only worked for a few in the
same field who did provide it.

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kazinator
Extended insurance is not free; your employer has to pay that, and it comes
out of your salary, effectively.

"Insurance" for recurring items like dental cleanings, massages and whatnot
isn't "insurance" in the regular sense of the word; it is pure overhead.

It's gamed so that the insurance company makes money, otherwise why would they
do this. You pay them $5 so they give you back $4 and send you to the dentist,
massage, or whatever.

There are yearly limits, and you cannot get any left over cash back that you
have not used!

Since I started contracting, I put away 300-something dollars each month into
a health insurance bank account, and then I go to the darned dentist as I
would under extended health insurance. Whatever is left over in that account
is mine.

I have a basic emergency insurance for 300-something per year, that doesn't
cover any routine, recurring services. It will cover emergency dental, like
having teeth broken in an accident.

Anyone who doesn't have coverage, but otherwise has a good job, yet doesn't go
to the dentist because of "I don't have coverage" is purely a victim of
psychology, not of any actual economic circumstances.

~~~
shados
> Extended insurance is not free; your employer has to pay that

Maybe, except now I make more money than any company that doesn't have such
insurance would offer me, AND I have the insurance. So it's all win. My
employer didn't have an option for "if you don't take the dental insurance
we'll give you more money".

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baldfat
I had my big toe have surgery done when I lived on the border in California, a
LONG time ago. It was a 25 minute drive from my house and a friend used the
doctor prior.

1) US Doctor wanted $600 and in Mexico it was $85. Everything went well and I
was happy I did it in Mexico.

2) I had to buy my needles and all other medicine that was used on me. Cost me
$15. Weird buy that stuff, but back then people were afraid of used needles
and cheap meds.

3) I also bought my antibiotics off the shelf and got 500 pills for $8. Meds
in Mexico are so much cheaper.

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adolph
The article focuses on dental care specifically, not healthcare in general.

 _Most dental plans don’t cover much at all beyond regular check-ups,
cleaning, X-rays and fillings. Beyond that, patients are expected to fork over
much of the cost of large but common procedures like crowns, root canals and
implants._

 _One of the reasons dental care is so expensive in the United States is
insurance._

 _Another cost for US dentists is malpractice insurance, which is not required
in Mexico._

 _Dental work in Mexico is on average two-thirds less than in the US and
customers may save 80 percent or more on some costly operations._

I've gotten a cleaning in Nuevo Laredo 10-15 years ago while in school. It was
very straightforward and I'd do it again if the circumstances warranted.

~~~
wahern
> Another cost for US dentists is malpractice insurance, which is not required
> in Mexico.

Sad that this article perpetuates this myth about costs. Malpractice insurance
for a dentist is about $3000/year. At $250/month the malpractice insurance is
paid off after the first couple of patients on the first day of the month.

Another way to look at it: The average revenue for a dental practice seems to
fall somewhere between $500000-$700000. So even if malpractice insurance were
$5000/year, that would still be less than 1% of revenue.

In the supposedly grossly litigious United States, it should raise some eye
brows that a professional who is widely feared for causing pain and
discomfort, who's interventions are often destined to fail sooner rather than
later, pays so little.

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ausbah
>The government provides basically tuition-free education. “When we get out of
school, we have to pay the government, but we do it by one year of free
service, and that’s it,” Miguel Ibarreche of the Sani Dental Group...

Can anyone speak about this as a model for college tuition?

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headcanon
Americans call it ROTC - free college but you have to march around campus for
4 years, and do (5 years?) when you graduate. GI bill also pays college
tuition in exchange for military service. some NGOs like Peace Corps and
possibly Teach for America will also provide tuition reimbursement.

Changing the model to adopt more civilian alternatives would remove a big
incentive to join the military, so I doubt thats going to happen anytime soon,
they're already having a historically hard time recruiting.

~~~
moate
While that's valid, it's possible an outside organization could do that
themselves. IANAL, so there may be regulations in place relating to
apprenticeships, etc. on the matter, but it seems like trade organizations
could do this.

We offer you a scholarship, in exchange you agree to X hours of work over the
first Y months after you graduate.

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UncleEntity
I've been thinking of taking a trip south of the border to get the teeth fixed
up, turns out it isn't so good for them to not go to a dentist since '92\.
Talked to a few folks who've done it and they were happy with the costs and
quality of work.

Since my socialized healthcare (through the VA) doesn't do even emergency
dental it's starting to become a pressing issue if I want to save my teeth so
why not?

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ssalazars
As a mexican living in the US couldn't agree more.

Need an ultra sound? Wait for 3-4 weeks. Want an MRI? Wait for 2-3 months.

Why can't I get immediate care when I need it without having to step on the
emergency room and pay (probably) thousand(s) USD?

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hourislate
As a Canadian Expat living in the USA I have never had to wait for any kind of
Medical attention. I could get an MRI or Ultrasound in 30 minutes in DFW. My
doctor can call ahead to the hospital and by the time I arrive they will be
ready for me.

When I lived in Canada I waited 8 months to see a Neurologist for a slipped
disk in my neck. During my visit he asked how long I waited because it had
healed on its own, I told him 8 months and he shook his head and apologized.

~~~
shdh
In Canada you need to game the urgency of your ailment.

Your mileage varies everywhere.

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paleotrope
Nice deceptive picture of the traffic trying to get into the US.

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arbuge
What exactly is deceptive about it?

From the article: "According to Mayor Christian Camacho, up to 6,000 dental
refugees make their way to Los Algodones every day in the temperate season
between Thanksgiving and March."

That is just one border town in Mexico...

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paleotrope
The picture is of the Mexican side of the crossing.

~~~
arbuge
The article is about Americans going to Mexico for cheaper healthcare options.
It gives an accurate picture of that situation, and the title is an accurate
indication of what the article covers.

It is not about the separate issue of "traffic trying to get into the US", so
even if that happens to be your primary concern, attacking it for not covering
that seems rather nonsensical to me.

~~~
paleotrope
The article and headline is about people "flooding into" mexico for dental
care. The photo with the article shows people trying to get into the us. There
isn't traffic or a wait going into mexico. It was an editorial choice to show
that picture.

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rootusrootus
Well, everyone going over has to come back eventually...

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Juliate
Ha.

Maybe the wall is not so much about keeping people out, but also about keeping
people in? and monetize the doors either way?

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QuantumAphid
Huh? Americans needing healthcare are walking into Mexico? And outside the
standard ports of exit/entry?

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suyash
Land border is a legal port of entry/exit that thousands of people cross
everyday in this country.

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QuantumAphid
There are 328 official legal points of entry into the United States where
documentation is required. 9-11 changed a lot of things in the US, and this is
one of them. Border patrol agents (of any nationality) are not fun to spend
time with. Also immigration attorneys are expensive.

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everybodyknows
An older relative lives in San Diego. Badly neglected his teeth, and later in
life needed implants for all 28.

A few years after having the work done in Tijuana, decay was discovered at the
roots. All 28 have now been replaced, by a stateside specialist, and his
retirement savings are considerably depleted.

~~~
everybodyknows
Hmm. Local, factual anecdote, actionable information -- downvoted. What sort
of HNer would do such a thing?

