
Farewell from Paradise Bay - jqgatsby
https://paradisebaygame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=524389
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jqgatsby
My wife has been playing this game on her phone for years, and is super sad
that they are closing it down. She's probably bought a fair number of "gems"
from them too, to beautify her island and trade fruit, I guess.

Some of the comments are funny, in a heartbreaking way. People really invested
a lot in this game, emotionally and financially. They are wondering who is
going to feed the pets they bought to live on their digital island.

The funniest/saddest thing about it is that, as a last hurrah, the maintainers
of the game gave everyone 10 million gems to spend as they see fit in the
remaining 2 months that the game is online. On the one hand, the players are
kind of pissed off at the belated awareness that the gems they were hoarding
were always fundamentally worthless, but on the other hand they want to buy
the final superpet or whatever for their island before the volcano blows up.

~~~
GuiA
Reading the comments is indeed fascinating. So many people claiming what a
waste of time they now feel it was. Which is interesting, because obviously
they didn’t think it was a waste of time when they played it the past few
years. Did they expect the game to last forever? As a game designer/community
manager, what would one do to make the shutdown of a beloved game be perceived
in a somewhat positive (if bittersweet) light to the players?

~~~
FussyZeus
This is specifically why I can't stand the idea of these "games as a service"
offerings. They're entirely dependent on some corporate hosted cloud service,
and corporations of course are known for long term support and sticking out
temporary setbacks- oh wait no, they bail at the first sign of a game not
being anything less than a meteoric success, fire the people who made it,
shutter the studio then find something else to ruin.

Mind you King is the chief scumbag of the late-stage-capitalism AAA game
industry scumbags, so I expect nothing less. Either a game makes all the money
conceivable and some inconceivable, in which case it "meets expectations" or
it gets chucked in the bin along with usually at least a few hundred people's
livelihoods for good measure, while the decision makers sail away on golden
parachutes to fuck up another good company with their nonsense.

But I digress, in answer to your questions:

> Did they expect the game to last forever?

Most casual gamers don't think about this stuff in this way. Hell, many of the
regular kind don't either. It's the new shiny thing and everyone loves it
because it's new and shiny, let's all play it for awhile until the next new
shiny comes out, then we'll all go play that and forget however much money we
sunk into the old one.

> As a game designer/community manager, what would one do to make the shutdown
> of a beloved game be perceived in a somewhat positive (if bittersweet) light
> to the players?

I wouldn't. I'd make a game with longevity in mind instead of just making as
much money as I possibly could as quickly as possible, and avoid setting
unrealistic goals so I didn't need to shut down a game hauling in what was
apparently a sizeable portion of 200 million bucks a year, which should be
more than enough to sustain a reasonably sized business, because I hadn't
managed to corner the entire mobile game market to make some investor cudhole
happy.

Sorry if the bitterness is strong here. I'm passionate about work like this
and I don't care how casual a game might be, it clearly had a lot of fans, was
making a lot of money, but now is shut down and 78 people are out of work
because some arsehole high in a company somewhere wasn't making enough gold to
put under his wings.

The whole thing is sad and stupid and unnecessary.

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danso
Apparently related to Activision's layoffs last months:

[https://venturebeat.com/2019/02/12/king-shuts-down-
former-z2...](https://venturebeat.com/2019/02/12/king-shuts-down-
former-z2live-mobile-game-studio-in-seattle-cuts-78-jobs/)

> _Activision Blizzard said it is laying off hundreds of employees today, and
> part of the fallout is that King’s mobile game studio in Seattle will be
> shut, resulting in the loss of 78 jobs, according to an unnamed source..._

> _...One of the studio’s games, Paradise Bay, was successful. The studio
> generated an estimated $200 million over the last few years, but it was
> still shut._

~~~
skellera
Oh what a coincidence. So I purchased a used MacBook Pro that is connected to
z2live’s device enrollment. I had to call King and make sure it wasn’t stolen
and stuff and it wasn’t in their newer system. They gave me the all clear but
I keep getting that damn pop up saying I need to enroll it with z2live.

I’m hoping this means I don’t keep getting that pop up as they should be
closing out their z2live Apple account... anyone have any idea if that’s how
it’ll work?

~~~
ChrisCinelli
I stumbled on this yesterday by accident: [https://duo.com/labs/research/mdm-
me-maybe](https://duo.com/labs/research/mdm-me-maybe)

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caymanjim
It's always sad to see a community you like disappear, but I think it's a good
lesson when freemium games with in-game purchasing go away. It's an evil,
terrible model that uses psychological trickery to slowly milk enormous
amounts of money from people. Losing that should make everyone think twice
before falling for that trick again.

At least with a monthly pay-as-you-go model, you don't feel like you're
investing in an asset. When a free game gets you to spend hundreds of dollars
on cosmetic trinkets, you feel like you're buying something permanent.

~~~
CaraLynn
I totally agree with you! :) I must admit I've been playing this game from the
start and I loved it, BUT (at least almost) the whole time I was very much
aware of my addiction and the senslessness of the whole thing..... :/

So in a way, thank God it's going to be over soon - just watch out not to fall
for the next “shiny new thing“, like you said already!!! ;)

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keerthiko
It always fascinates me when people see the end of a game they enjoyed for
hundreds of hours suddenly decide it was all a "waste of time" because the
servers are shutting down.

Why can't people fondly remember and cherish the memories with something or
someone they enjoyed spending time with? When a loved one passes away do you
decide all the time you spent with them was a waste?

It's understandable to be upset or sad or angry, but to think of your past
enjoyment and engagement as a waste?

This probably speaks as much to the addictive chemical nature of these kind of
perpetual slot machine games as much as the thoughtlessness in the expression
of the community members who are upset by it shutting down.

~~~
CaraLynn
Sure, it's somehow better to think of it this way, but the FACT remains that -
however much you might enjoy spending time with a game like this, say: in-game
;) --- there's no denying that it REALLY IS a waste of time, since everything
about it is totally virtual. I mean, if you look at it closely, doesn't it
sound somehow strange that people are actually upset about having to
“euthanize“ their beloved virtual pets?? ;P

I think it offers a glimpse at the critical direction in which our society is
heading... and that's what is truly miserable and sad.

Nowadays people tend more and more to give up thinking/using their brain,
instead they choose to follow brainless “influencers“ (what an expression!?)
and anything their phone spits out. :(

NB. Your comparison with the passing away of a loved one does not fit really,
since with loved ones our memories are real. ;)

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adamredwoods
Too bad there isn't a market for large game companies to "sell off" smaller
games, assets, or communication protocols (for self-hosted servers) to indie
developers who could find a way to make these games sustainable. It seems like
this game has a passionate base. Probably some monetary value in that.

~~~
mabbo
Zynga sold YoWorld to Big Viking Games this way.

~~~
CaraLynn
Yup, same story a couple of years ago with the game Bubble Safari... in the
midst of great gameplay, they shut it down just like that. Only difference to
Paradise Bay: There were no characters involved that you could get attached
to!

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lizzypoo
I sm so upset the game is being shut down. This is a classic game that would
have been enjoyed by generations to come. Just like the Monopoly board game
can be enjoyed by generations to come.

I am so sad the game is being shut down. It is such a waste to see the
enormous creativity the designers put into it just disappearing! I've played
for years. Have elaborately and beautifully decorated my island with flowers,
walkways, fences, arches, fountains, etc. It's truly a beautiful game. And I
feel proud to have designed such a magical place.

There were multiple challenges and fabulous pets which exhibited such nice
behaviors. It truly was a magical place.

I think I'm most sad because there really isn't a game to switch to. Playing
Paradise Bay wasn't just about completing challenges and winning prizes. It
was about beautifully decorating a magical land you created. And enjoying the
visually prettiness of the island. Butterflies abound, the characters were all
sweet, and the island was uber friendly.

Other games totally lack the estetics. I wish the owners of this gem would
reconsider shutting it doen. There is no game for us to move to. Very sad.

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forheartclover
I have played paradise bay since just after its launch. I have never been
captivated by a tablet game as I was this one, there were so many levels you
could play, but hard to explain in full detail if you weren't a long time
player and understood the resource management it needed.

You could stack your mills for one. Each mill would hold 999 items in the
order you put them in. I had several mills stacked to max capacity, this
helped with the all too frequent tradefests or retofests. I had 3 island 2 of
which 'fed' my main island. I had a huge notebook to keep a record of every
item in order in each mill. (Sad I know)

They had frequent builder events and then there were pet stickers, doubloons
and map pieces etc... I could go on and on.

You also collected pets, follwed by their stickers to lvl the pets up.

The ability to decorate your island was only limited by your imagination. You
could actually turn it into 'your paradise'

I'm not angry, I'm very sad. I didn't invest much money into the game as I
played strategically learnt from long term play. I was always conscious it
could also be gone any day! I don't think ppl playing these games think about
that much. Hence the shock and anger at losing their game and money.

This game took over my love for playing mmorpgs. I have played SWG, EQ2, Wow
from vanilla. I would of happily payed a monthly sub to keep Playing PB. No
timed raids or ppl evaluating your performance on your dps. You could pick up
PB for 5 mins or 5 hours. It truly will be a sad day on may 17th! I don't
think AB actually realised what a gem of a game they had.

There was also an awesome wikia that was maintained by awesome players because
they wanted to :)

bay.fandom.com/wiki/Paradise_Bay_Wikia

There certainly isn't a game out there to fill the void in my spare time. So I
just hope someone has the foresight to fill that very big hole in a lot of
ppls spare time.

~~~
gloflo
How much would you attribute to logic puzzling fun and how much for addiction
to a incremental, time-spent based reward system.

~~~
fourheartclover
It wasn’t a puzzle type of game at all. I just meant you could play it
casually or take it more seriously. Most of the serious players had maxed all
event builder items, pets, storage. They were proud of their efforts and
displayed it for all to see. (You could visit your friends islands and help
them out on dives etc)

The graphics are stunning. All the thought that had gone into the little
details was brilliant.

Even your pets look up at you through your screen and each one has at least 3
animations. They would interact with different items just for them.

The characters in the game all had storylines and you built up reputation with
them unlocking new recipes for the mills. I also think the story lines made it
more time consuming to add new levels as there was so much thought behind it.

Island space was a big issue with players. There was so much you could do to
decorate and never enough room with the pets constantly been added to the
game. In all it’s time there was only 1 land expansion. Maybe this was due to
high level of graphics?

I for one bought a new iPad in 2017 just to play PB so it ran smoother. I know
as the game progressed some couldn’t run it on their tablets. But as with all
games, as they improve we have to upgrade. PCs, consoles, tablets.

I maybe naive but I hope someone can take this game and keep it running. That
would be a bonus! If they don’t then I’m slowly coming to terms with another
gaming love been over.

~~~
CaraLynn
I feel with you, still you should accept that it is addictive nevertheless.
Let's start by spending some time with each other instead? ;)

I am certainly NOT going to look for another distraction, as I have cursed the
game at times for being all so sweet - and it is/was....! ;)

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mythz
Never heard of Paradise Bay but it's sad to see years of creative effort
disappearing from the face of the earth like that. A game of this quality
could've definitely have been sold off and kept running on a skeleton crew
which would've saved some jobs, so I'm assuming the decision to shutdown is to
keep it out of competitors hands or some other corporate or political reason.

From the forum comments you can see the conflict between the Users the game
has cultivated who are really emotionally invested in the game and its
corporate owners who are detached from it.

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b_tterc_p
Seems like activision acquired and is now axing it. I can’t imagine it isn’t
profitable, so it’s really going to be activision deciding that it’s not
profitable enough to meet some metrics. Frustrating.

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overgard
Surprised they didn't have a longer sunsetting period. Unless the server costs
are massive it seems like a year or so would be more appropriate. Maybe their
28 day retention is just low enough that they didn't think there were enough
long term players for it to matter.

~~~
caymanjim
The server costs are likely trivial compared to the employee cost. They'd need
to retain support staff, both for the technical side (server maintenance) and
in-game moderation and customer management.

I've worked on a number of medium-to-large systems. They're literally always
held together with duct tape and prayers. The entire thing would probably
collapse in a few days if someone weren't there babysitting the storage
infrastructure alone.

~~~
overgard
I suppose it depends on how robust your infrastructure is. I know one place I
worked, we sunset a game and essentially there was only one person supporting
it part-time; with events being automated through a calendar. I'm sure if
Apple or Google were to make some sort of major breaking change that would
require engineering time to keep the game running they'd shut it down, but
otherwise AFAIK it's still running on autopilot about 8 months after they made
that decision.

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lizzypoo
Can anyone suggest a replacement for Paradise Bay? I haven't found anything
that is as besutiful or rnjoyable.

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rwallace
Okay, I'm curious; does anyone have any idea why? Is there a way I'm not
seeing, that it can fail to be profitable to keep this game running? Or a
reason I'm not seeing, why a corporation – in the second Gilded Age, when
money is supposed to be the measure of all things – is throwing away profit?

~~~
dabbledash
Opportunity cost.

They believe whatever they’re expending on this game can generate higher
profits if used for something else.

~~~
rwallace
Okay. That leads to some other questions.

1\. This was basically a scenario of 'leave that computer turned on, and
people will keep sending us money.' (I know it's never quite as simple as
that, but it was as close to it as it ever gets.) What's the return on capital
of that, expressed as an APR? I would expect it to be far higher than anything
else ever gets in the real world.

2\. What, exactly, might the something else be? If this was four decades ago
when there were so many opportunities that interest rates were in double
digits, maybe I could buy it, but now? What else could they possibly be
spending the capital on, that would generate a higher return?

3\. Speaking of interest rates, they are currently practically zero, and the
world is awash in capital looking for good investment opportunities. If they
really had a better opportunity than leaving an already developed and proven
successful game running, they should have no difficulty laying hands on
capital with which to exploit that opportunity.

So I still don't see any way it makes sense. What am I still missing?

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rambojazz
They should release at least the server code as open source, and let users
download their data as well, so that people can keep playing.

~~~
falsedan
That server code is probably mostly third-party middleware and shared across
products

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VectorLock
I wonder how many people are going to be upset that their "in-game purchases"
are going poof.

~~~
pavel_lishin
The other posters on the game seem pretty mad.

> _So basically all the money we 've spent on this game is gone lmao wow_

Not sure what they expected, tbh. That money was _always_ gone.

It would be nice if they open sourced it, so that someone could take on the
mantle and run private servers. I wonder how difficult reverse-engineering and
patching it would be.

~~~
elsonrodriguez
> It would be nice if they open sourced it.

King was notorious for running popup ads and app-store redirects for years. I
don't think this is in their DNA.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Could it be reverse engineered?

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mesozoic
Apparently gone from the app store. Any way I can still download and play
until they shut down?

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ceejayoz
You've really messed up your Farmville clone if it's losing money.

~~~
xnyan
I didn't play (to be honest, I think the genre is exploitative), but knew some
people who did. The game was high quality in its category, particularly the
art. I imagine this was a big reason they are being shut down - Activision
Blizzard, Inc is panicking for a variety of reasons and this game was way too
costly, even if they were turning a profit, when you can have the same
developers shovel out crap at higher margin.

~~~
ceejayoz
"High quality in its category" doesn't really change my opinion that any app
offering a $99.99 "speed up the game" option is exploitative and gross.

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Thaxll
It's probably possible to re-implement a game server since most likely that
game is using a REST backend.

