
Ultra-low-energy consumption ultrasonic clothes dryer - darrennix
https://energy.gov/eere/buildings/downloads/novel-ultra-low-energy-consumption-ultrasonic-clothes-dryer
======
spodek
It's not the fastest clothes dryer, but I often use one that runs on fusion in
outer space.

~~~
ergothus
For apartment goers (or those that live in uncooperative climates) the
reliability of such a system is a bigger problem than the speed.

But for those that can use it, it is indeed a great system.

~~~
jdavis703
Can you put your clothes on a fire escape? Or in your bathroom (works great if
you have a bathroom with a window).

~~~
ergothus
Every apartment complex I've lived in has had rules banning hanging clothes
(no idea about enforcement). Also, for any group larger than 2 I imagine the
clothes would not dry fast enough to keep up.

And most bathrooms are small and often without a window.

Not a complaint, just pointing out that sun-drying is often not a real choice.
Often it is.

~~~
jasonmp85
Many management types will attempt to tell you that you can't hang clothes on
a line. In nineteen states, such rules are explicitly prohibited by state law:
[http://www.sightline.org/2012/02/21/clothesline-bans-void-
in...](http://www.sightline.org/2012/02/21/clothesline-bans-void-
in-19-states/) . They have the cheeky name of "right to dry states".

A related thing often banned is external over-the-air antennas, protected by
US federal law.

~~~
vitus
Well, the focus in that particular article is on HOA bans, not apartment ones.
For instance, the Hawaii law (the first one I clicked on that seemed
particularly cut-and-dried) is restricted to single-family homes and
townhomes.

"The purpose of this Act is to prohibit real estate contracts, agreements, and
rules from precluding or rendering ineffective the use of clotheslines on the
premises of [b]single-family dwellings or townhouses[/b]." [0]
[http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2009/bills/SB1338_CD1_....](http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2009/bills/SB1338_CD1_.pdf)

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kurthr
Why not just use a vacuum pump and pull the water vapor out at a constant
temperature. You can flow 33C dry air (use a condenser before expanding and
heating, if you like) across the clothes as they tumble to keep them from
freezing.

You wouldn't have to pump below a 10% of an atmosphere to quickly dry your
clothes (vapor pressure of water is 5% of an atmosphere at that temp).

To give an idea of how fast: With a 1liter/sec STP air intake, you would
extract ~1gram/sec of water so in 15min you would remove ~1kg of water.

~~~
kortex
And with the air mostly removed, you can spin the drum really really fast! I
think you're on to something here. :P Maybe not.

I've done hundreds of solvent evaporations under vacuum (rotovap). The problem
is you need a trap, or else solvents condense in the pump which causes your
efficiency to go down. So now you need a heat pump or similar, now you're
talking about a really complicated dryer. But it'd be efficient.

~~~
kurthr
Yeah, thanks for the comment on the condensation.

The output pump would really need to mostly pump water and vapor at the input
and liquid at the output, but not to very low pressure... even a peristaltic
might be doable (no rotary vane/blower needed). It was just a thought, I used
to rotovap too so running through the calculations seemed like a fun idea.

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ams6110
A bit puzzled why GE needs government funding to do research -- they make a
lot of money already.

The idea sounds pretty neat but I wonder about longevity of the piezeoelectric
transducers. A clothes dryer needs to last at least 7-10 years, minimum. A
resistive heating element is about as simple as you can get, and it's cheap to
replace if it does burn out.

~~~
awqrre
Batteries don't last this long, why does a dryer have to? it's not all about
longevity ...

~~~
rosalinekarr
Because dryers are expensive appliances. If they're going to make one that
only lasts one tenth as long, it better cost one tenth of the price too.

~~~
StephenConnell
Take operating costs into account also.

~~~
cmdrfred
And time lost waiting for a new one to be delivered, disposal fees...

~~~
Arizhel
Don't forget delivery and installation fees too. They don't deliver them to
your house for free.

~~~
awqrre
Who cares about delivery fees? it's the total cost that matters.

~~~
Arizhel
The delivery fee is a significant fraction of the total cost of a modern dryer
in the US. Saving a little money by getting crappier dryers will likely have a
larger total cost because of the delivery fees, and also the cost of your time
in taking time off from work to accept delivery.

~~~
awqrre
that dryer costing $180 at Home Depot has free shipping, by the way...
[http://www.homedepot.com/p/Magic-Chef-Compact-1-5-cu-ft-
Elec...](http://www.homedepot.com/p/Magic-Chef-Compact-1-5-cu-ft-Electric-
Dryer-in-White-MCSDRY15W/301134985) .... and by the way, you are paying for
shipping even if you by at the store (it is just included)

~~~
Arizhel
WTF? We're talking about real dryers here, not dorm-sized dryers that you can
dry maybe 2 shirts in.

However, if you select the Samsung 7.5cf dryer, it also has free delivery. Of
course, this is built into the price, and $550 for an appliance isn't pocket
change.

~~~
awqrre
here is a pocket change dryer that is slightly larger:
[http://www.homedepot.com/p/Amana-6-5-cu-ft-Electric-Dryer-
in...](http://www.homedepot.com/p/Amana-6-5-cu-ft-Electric-Dryer-in-White-
NED4655EW/206029544) and of course it also has free shipping.

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kaosjester
Does this mean the socks won't come out of the dryer warm? That's sort of a
deal breaker for me.

~~~
oniony
Can't you stick them in the microwave?

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smaili
> At the end of the project, appliance manufacturers including GEA will be
> ready to invest in this technology and commercialize it. This will result in
> the U.S. becoming the leader in the clothes drying industry and generate new
> jobs and innovative applications of the technology.

Pretty sure as soon as China is aware of this idea (if not already), they will
have something in production and out the door faster and at a much larger
scale than the US. Could someone explain why innovative ideas like this have
to be published _before_ they're actually built?

~~~
seren
GE appliances is already a Chinese company so pretty sure they have some
chance to be the first to actually commercialize it. So no need to worry about
China copying it..

~~~
seanmcdirmid
As if I could ever find a clothes dryer in china.

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blarghh
What's the effect on the clothes themselves? I won't let anything but
underwear, gym clothes, socks, and tees in a dryer because it's generally
considered bad for them. I hang dry all of my wovens.

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sandworm101
And how will my cat react to this thing? Something with enough sonic energy to
vaporize a significant volume of water is probably loud enough to wake every
animal in the area.

~~~
bpicolo
Looks like they calculated the optimum as ~500-600 Hz? That's in human hearing
range too.

~~~
sandworm101
Give it a try: "600 Hz Sine Wave Sound Frequency Tone"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERHcqYNLHyg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERHcqYNLHyg)

and 500:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEfshsoyZk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEfshsoyZk)

If that really is the range they are targeting, this product is doomed. That
will be one heck of a noise to cancel. "Soundproof box" is right up there with
perpetual motion, zero-point energy, and spherical chickens in vacuums.

~~~
derefr
A 'soundproof box' is hard because most of those boxed things we want to quiet
down (say, pets) still need to be a _part_ of our environment, breathing air
and the like.

A clothes dryer, meanwhile, is a near-ideal case for vacuum isolation +
elastic dampening. Build a box with a door; hang an airtight motorized barrel
in the box from a bungee cord, with a _second_ door, and electrical
connection; and then, whenever both doors are sealed at the same time,
[slowly] evacuate the air from the box.

~~~
sandworm101
If you are going to go through all the effort to create a proper vacuum, and
then isolate all the little penetrations needed to maintain whatever is
inside, just throw the wet clothes into the vacuum and call the thing a freeze
dryer. No sonic required. A heat lamp inside a vacuum chamber would probably
dry stuff using much less energy than either sonic of hot air.

~~~
derefr
I'm not sure whether organic materials would be very happy with all their
water content getting sublimated out of them due to the sudden drop in
pressure. The result would probably look more like cotton jerky than fluffy
towels. (If anyone has a Youtube link of such a reaction, though, I'd love to
be proven wrong!)

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scarlac
The demonstration seems to assume that physical contact is possible. For
layered clothes it may not work that well, if at all. But! Even if we assume
there's no progress in that area, I can still see this being used in an
industrial laundry. I've worked in one and there are machines specialized for
different types of garments. With automation, it may actually make economic
sense. So while use in a consumer market may seem far out, industrial
applications are still possible.

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somberi
Electric ceiling fan in a small room dries a stand full of clothes in 4-5
hours in a 70%RH climate and costs a LOT less than drum dryers and is safer
for the garments.

~~~
iplaw
This is how I dry all of my cycling kits, gloves, socks, warmers, etc. I have
a four hanging drying racks [1] that I hang on the four ceiling fans in my
home gym. The lycra dries in only an hour or two since there is airflow on all
sides of the items. It makes for very efficient drying and it wholly prevents
heat degradation of the lycra.

[1]: [https://www.containerstore.com/s/stainless-steel-lingerie-
dr...](https://www.containerstore.com/s/stainless-steel-lingerie-drying-
rack/d?productId=10035031&q=drying)

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tim333
The video showed a small bit of fabric touching the transducer. I'm not sure
how well it's going to work with a big heap of jeans, jumpers and the like.

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beagle3
Depending on the ultrasonic frequency used, and the spacing of seams/tailoring
of the clothes, it's possible that some clothes will come out of the dryer in
pieces, and you will have to sew them back together... Although I suspect wide
availability of these dryer will quickly eliminate that kind of sewing, much
like the prevalence of dishwashers has almost eliminated non-dishwasher-safe
kitchen stuff.

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Tharkun
So this project ran from 2014-2016. Any word on whether anything was
accomplished?

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Scoundreller
> DOE’s Building Technologies Office is seeking new clothes dryer technologies
> that can increase the energy factor (EF) from 3.7 to 5.43 lb/kWh without
> increasing drying time by more than 20% over baseline units.

They're concentrating too much on kWh. One could use the same technology and
focus on variable electricity pricing. I want a dryer that I turn at night,
and it dynamically turns on-and-off as electricity rates go up and down. It
ends at a smooth tumble in the morning so I can put on my day's clothes and
fold the rest at it's lowest wrinkle-point.

~~~
duncan_bayne
In Australia, that's very hard to achieve because the residential energy
market is heavily regulated specifically to _avoid_ exposing low-end consumers
to spot pricing.

~~~
caf
In at least WA, NSW, QLD and ACT you can go on time-of-use residential
tariffs.

And driers (and washing machines - which use a considerable amount of energy
particularly if they heat the water internally) typically already have timer-
start functions.

~~~
duncan_bayne
Sure but time of use is _far_ less volatile than actual spot pricing. Hell, in
WA and QLD it's not unknown for AEMO to post _negative_ energy prices.

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marak830
I saw something like this demoed on Australian TV about 15 years ago. I was
always wondering what happened to it!

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zubat
Will it kill bug infestations?

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jostmey
I want to see a study done on such a devices safety. The sound waves it emit
are able to desiccate clothing. What is the effect of these sound waves
escaping the device? Would it desiccate living tissue?

~~~
djrogers
Probably the same ultrasonics hat are used in humidifiers. Hint, they don't
travel far.

~~~
iamatworknow
They mention that in the video.

It also mentions that they're thinking of creating a tumble/drum dryer with
these piezoelectrics. As opposed to a traditional tumble dryer that spins to
aerate the cloths, I think the spinning motion would instead be required to
pin the clothing against the piezoelectric lined drum (though I imagine it
would need to stop and change direction periodically in order to expose
different areas of the fabric to the drum wall).

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gravypod
If these go mainstream it would be thousands of times more handy to the small
shop then for cloths. Vibratory cleaners with that kind of volume are crazy
expensive!

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didsomeonesay
I sincerely hope this is no vaporware...

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basicplus2
Vibration of molecules... sounds alot like heat energy

~~~
jdhendrickson
As but the difference is in the amount of energy expended vibrating them no?
It sounds to me more like vigorously shaking the water off the cloth fibers
and then hoovering them up, which is much more energy efficient than heating
said water until it turns into a vapor and hoovering it up.

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uncensored
The logical next leap is to cook food with ultrasound which will hopefully be
somewhat faster than conventional cooking and less harmful (no protein
denaturing [1]) than microwave cooking

1\.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11088227](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11088227)

~~~
chroem-
The whole _point_ of cooking food is to denature proteins and kill pathogens.
Denatured proteins have exactly the same nutritional content as functional
proteins: they're just not folded into their original and potentially
dangerous shape anymore.

~~~
uncensored
"denaturing" does sound scary and bad -- It's a dumb way to describe what
happens in any cooking process.... it sounds like turning food into plastic
before eating it (take the nature our of it) LOL.

Anyway, there are real health risks according to the World Health
Organization:

"Food safety: Food safety is an important health issue. In a microwave oven,
the rate of heating depends on the power rating of the oven and on the water
content, density and amount of food being heated. Microwave energy does not
penetrate well in thicker pieces of food, and may produce uneven cooking. This
can lead to a health risk if parts of the food are not heated sufficiently to
kill potentially dangerous micro-organisms. Because of the potential for
uneven distribution of cooking, food heated in a microwave oven should rest
for several minutes after cooking is completed to allow the heat to distribute
throughout the food."

That sounds like nuking the surface of the food then waiting for it to cook
after it has ben microwaved which may or may not fully achieve thorough
cooking.

[http://www.who.int/peh-
emf/publications/facts/info_microwave...](http://www.who.int/peh-
emf/publications/facts/info_microwaves/en/)

~~~
db48x
That's why your microwave oven has a power setting. It toggles the magnetron
on and off during cooking, so that your food cooks more evenly.

~~~
uncensored
Yet it never does, unless maybe you have a $2000 microwave oven?

~~~
db48x
Yours doesn't toggle on and off when you use the power level controls? Maybe
it's broken; this is a feature that all microwaves have, because it's so cheap
to implement. Note that the lights and fans and things keep going; it's only
the magnetron that turns on and off. You might hear a difference in the sound
of the microwave, or a relay clicking when it toggles, but that's all.

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tiatia
Ultrasonic Dryer? Who needs this? And DOE dropped nearly a million on it? Was
it an SBIR grant with nice kickbacks? :-)

I found a washing machine with ultrasonic much more interesting:

[http://www.tovatech.com/blog/3759/ultrasonic-
cleaner/ultraso...](http://www.tovatech.com/blog/3759/ultrasonic-
cleaner/ultrasonic-washing-machine-looks-like-it-is-available-in-japan)

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/21/dolfi-washing-
devic...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/21/dolfi-washing-
device_n_6510494.html)

Would be a little worried about stress on your clothes AND/OR Ears.
[http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/09/sounds-you-cant-
hear-...](http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/09/sounds-you-cant-hear-can-
still-hurt-your-ears)

~~~
rotten
Maybe it will keep mice and bugs away while it is running.

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peterwwillis
Advanced clothesline technology, now available with WiFi.

