
Amazon to acquire video doorbell maker Ring - arishi
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/amazon-acquire-ring-video-doorbell-maker-cracking-open-door-home-security-market/
======
cavisne
Not an original thought but its fascinating how much extra information Amazon
has in these acquisitions than a normal company. When such a big part of
Ring's sales are through amazon they can figure out things like

* How many people search specifically for the brand Ring

* If a knockoff appears first do people buy that instead

* What is the growth in searches and purchases overall

* Why do people return the product

These are things even Ring wouldn't know. Its not too far fetched to think you
could build a valuation engine off the information Amazon has and compare the
cost of cloning the product line to acquiring the company automatically.

~~~
Waterluvian
Is it legal to manipulate the market to test signals?

Eg. We may want to buy this company. Let's make their product appear after
competitors and see how strong sales remain.

~~~
paxys
Manipulating search results for any reason is illegal and Google has faced
heavy scrutiny for it in the past, so I would think it would be the same for
Amazon.

~~~
dingaling
Illegal? There may be scrutiny in a monopoly context, but there is no law that
states that search results have to be fair and equitable.

How could they even be? For example Amazon might only stock four of six brands
of video doorbell, so they're not going to be able to return neutral results.

------
marlonbarz
Ring was on the TV Show Shark Tank, and all the sharks passed on the deal. It
was $700K for 10% of the company. And now it sold for more than 1 billion $.

~~~
jbob2000
You have the wrong idea about the show. It exists to promote the shark's own
businesses and products under the guise of a contest reality show. To keep up
the facade, they allow other companies to put their products up for a price,
and intersperse a couple of silly products to keep people watching.

It's just dressed up advertising, it's not about investing or business by any
flip of the coin.

~~~
devscreen
This isn't true, the only thing that is "fake" is how much time they spend
asking questions. From speaking to a "dragon", they spend about 45-60 minutes
assessing the product/idea. After that, if they choose to invest, they invest.

~~~
timcederman
Not true. Many deals change or don't go through.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilycanal/2016/10/21/about-72-...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilycanal/2016/10/21/about-72-of-
deals-that-happen-on-shark-tank-dont-turn-out-as-seen-on-tv/#60b30bda4ed1)

------
cs702
Amazon and Google -- and Facebook and a handful of others -- seem to be in a
never-ending race to learn everything about everyone everywhere: who you are,
where you are, what you do, when you do it, and why do do it.

Having cameras and microphones in your house and your neighborhood is a small
part of that.

~~~
willow9886
Don't forget they're also monitoring people who interact with you (a.k.a. the
user of services).

When I walk into a friends home who has an Alexa, or a Ring system, it is now
tracking me too.

The purchaser consented, but I never consented to being monitored in a
residence/dwelling where I would otherwise have the reasonable expectation of
privacy!

There was a good Gizmodo article about this called The House That Spied on Me
[1].

[1] [https://gizmodo.com/the-house-that-spied-on-
me-1822429852](https://gizmodo.com/the-house-that-spied-on-me-1822429852)

~~~
prostoalex
Do you have expectations of privacy on someone else’s private property? Seems
fair to assume surveillance in retail establishments or banks. The only
exception I can think of is rented private property (hotel rooms, airbnb’s).

------
Slansitartop
Crap. I guess I won't be buying one then. Amazon also just gobbled up the
maker of my home security cameras (Blink). I really would prefer my home
monitoring devices to be separate from the giant tech companies that I'm
trusting less and less.

~~~
jd20
You could always invest in IP cameras, and manage where the data goes
yourself. No reason a 24/7 video stream of your home needs to be sent to a big
tech company's data centers, anyway, or any data center for that matter.

~~~
Mister_Snuggles
This is the approach I take. It’s not for everyone, but it can range from
simple to complex depending on what you want to do.

I have a variety of WiFi cameras, all of which are on a dedicated WiFi network
that cannot access the internet. I use Zoneminder to handle the recording,
motion detection, etc. Zoneminder is pretty versatile, but it’s ultimately up
to the camera to provide a compatible method of access - RTSP works well for
cameras that support it, but if you have a URL on the camera that will return
a JPEG that will work too.

Most of my cameras are low-end D-Link models, they work fine with Zoneminder.
I recently got an Amcrest camera which, after some cajoling, works very well
with Zoneminder. Using a JPEG URL that Zoneminder polls never worked for some
reason, but RTSP worked perfectly.

If you want to go this route, look for evidence that other people have gotten
the model you’re interested in to work with software like Zoneminder, Blue
Iris, or iSpy. Generally this means that the camera supports open standards
that you can use in your system.

If you don’t want to go the Zoneminder route, some cameras can do a lot of the
work internally. All of my cameras, for example, have some degree of motion
detection and the ability to upload files to an FTP server or send an email.
The biggest challenge here is that none of these cameras can be configured to
do this without either a Java Applet or a vendor-provided browser plugin to
view the live video and define the detection zones and parameters.

~~~
cloakandswagger
>I have a variety of WiFi cameras, all of which are on a dedicated WiFi
network that cannot access the internet.

> All of my cameras, for example, have some degree of motion detection and the
> ability to upload files to an FTP server or send an email.

Am I missing something?

~~~
Mister_Snuggles
The email and FTP features are available on my cameras, but I don’t personally
use them. I only included it as an option to use a camera without relying on
the vendor’s cloud service and without setting up something like Zoneminder.

Upon rereading my comment, it could have been structured differently to make
that clearer.

------
kraig911
"How would you subject the world to constant monitoring at all times?" Winston
asked O'Brien.

"I'll make them pay for it. Enjoy it even." replied O'Brien

That's how the book should've ended.

------
arishi
More details from Axios - "..although a source calls this Amazon's second-
largest acquisition of all time (behind Whole Foods). That would seemingly
mean it's above $1.2 billion (the amount Amazon paid for Zappos), which is in
line with earlier reports that Ring was fundraising at around a $1 billion
valuation."

[https://www.axios.com/amazon-buying-video-doorbell-
company-r...](https://www.axios.com/amazon-buying-video-doorbell-company-
ring-1519763306-7c7fb313-0bc7-4fbc-a50e-7dbe4a6ab0dd.html)

------
gnicholas
What does this mean for existing Ring customers? Considering the privacy
implications and the fact that Amazon can/will do a lot more with this data
than Ring did, is there a way for Ring customers to opt-out of future
integration into the Amazon ecosystem?

I imagine there are a decent chunk of Ring customers who would have not
purchased the device had it been sold by Amazon in the first place.

~~~
notatoad
>I imagine there are a decent chunk of Ring customers who would have not
purchased the device had it been sold by Amazon in the first place.

I have a hard time feeling too much sympathy for these people. The inevitable
conclusion for most of these heavily-vc-funded home automation startups is an
acquisition by one of the tech giants. If you are boycotting the tech giants
for whatever reason, you should therefore be boycotting any startup that might
be an acquisition target.

also, if you're putting video cameras in your home that push footage to a
server you don't control (or even one that you do) i'm not sure you can call
yourself privacy conscious.

~~~
gnicholas
> _The inevitable conclusion for most of these heavily-vc-funded home
> automation startups is an acquisition by one of the tech giants._

You're right that this was an obvious outcome, in retrospect. I wonder what
percent of their customers saw this coming. My sense is that they're not just
selling to early adopters now—my retired aunt has been telling me about Ring
for quite some time.

> _If you are boycotting the tech giants for whatever reason, you should
> therefore be boycotting any startup that might be an acquisition target._

Huh, so if I avoid FB then I shouldn't use anything that they might acquire?
Seems kind of tough, since they go out and buy things like Oculus, which was a
bit out of left field.

~~~
notatoad
if you're going to feel betrayed when a startup gets acquired by FB then you
should avoid all startups.

if you can be understanding about a company you don't like acquiring one you
do, then buy whatever. just don't be shocked when a startup follows the same
route as literally every other startup.

------
Osmium
Perhaps a stupid question, but where does the $1bn. valuation come from?
Amazon already make hardware, including cloud cameras, would it have been so
hard for them to make a doorbell in-house?

~~~
prostoalex
Ring has some existing cash flow through their video monitoring business.

There’s also some premium to be had for tight integration options - current
Ring doorbell owners would likely opt for a Ring indoor camera (if one
existed) versus competitor’s, just to avoid the hassle of dealing with two
apps and paying for two subscription plans.

~~~
evgen
Given that Amazon just bought Blink a few months ago you can see the shape of
the Amazon smart home ecosystem coming together...

~~~
prostoalex
The Blink acquisition is less obvious to me, considering Amazon already had a
branded Dropcam competitor at pretty competitive price
[https://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Amazon-Cloud-
Cam/dp/B01C4...](https://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Amazon-Cloud-
Cam/dp/B01C4UY0JK)

------
SmellTheGlove
Amazon now has Blink and Ring. I wonder how soon "You're out of paper towels"
and "Your paper towels are on the porch" will come about?

Bonus points for "the neighbor kid just stole your package" alert.

~~~
JoblessWonder
They have the ability to unlock your front door, so "your paper towels were
replaced on your holder" is a legit option.

~~~
xkjkls
When am I just going to have a person come to wipe my butt?

~~~
TheGrassyKnoll
With 10000 baby boomers turning 65 every day, a butt wiping robot might be
very successful.

------
cwperkins
Makes sense, as Amazon gets further into delivery this provides a
complimentary service to help keep packages secure and let customers see who
shows up at the door. It would be interesting if someday you could also let a
courier in remotely.

~~~
lozaning
Someday is long past, they've been offering to unlock your door if you've got
their lock and cam for some time now.
[https://www.amazon.com/b?&node=17285120011](https://www.amazon.com/b?&node=17285120011)

------
fernly
Sudden vision: you request Amazon home delivery -- the delivery person comes
to the door, holds up a smartphone showing a nonce QR code, the Ring doorbell
checks the nonce with Amazon, says, "Checks out" and unlocks the door.

~~~
freeone3000
Yes, this is an actual service they offer -
[https://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Amazon-Key-In-Home-
Kit/dp...](https://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Amazon-Key-In-Home-
Kit/dp/B00KCYQGXE)

------
leggomylibro
Didn't they just buy another remote video camera company?

Or was that Google? It's so hard to keep track of all the new toys that big
tech companies keep buying. Either way, talk about a full-court press on
getting devices into your home.

~~~
Digital-Citizen
Perhaps it was about purchasing the copyrights and patents Ring controls, or
purchasing the company most likely to cause problems for Amazon when Amazon
rolls out more of their ridiculous home invasion plan marketed as an inside-
the-home delivery service. This is the service apparently everyone has been
perfectly fine to do without since Amazon began doing business.

------
KiDD
RIP HomeKit Integration Promises

------
KiDD
This sucks... Ring has been providing subpar service and promises that remain
unfulfilled. It was Cleary working on cutting costs to get ready for a sale.

~~~
xkjkls
Why wouldn't an acquisition from Amazon help them achieve scale and meet some
of those promises?

------
alant
Seems like a defensive move against Google's Nest Hello video doorbell
[https://nest.com/doorbell/nest-
hello/overview/](https://nest.com/doorbell/nest-hello/overview/) no?

~~~
megy
Yes, clearly video doorbells are going to be the next smartphones.

------
elipsey
We were just talking about this at a lock picking meetup (lots programmers
there too). The consensus seemed to be that if it has all the security
problems of IoT plus all the security problems of doors... that would be a lot
of fun for us.

------
clarkbw
There goes any hope of the HomeKit support promise coming through in the Ring
Pro.

~~~
KiDD
First thing I thought too... I'm glad I've been investing in real IPcams and
setup my own security system. HomeKit will never come to ring

------
fma
I had just recently purchased a Ring doorbell. I debated between Ring and
Skybell. I should have gone with Skybell. Trying not have 1 company know
everything about me (I know...probably impossible).

------
coss
I wonder if this is for their in home delivery. Have ring devices recognize
valid amazon delivery employees and let them in to drop off packages/food. VIP
service - stock your fridge.

------
tostitos1979
I'm surprised this isn't at the top of the frontpage. This is big vindication
of all hardware startups. Will VCs go big in this category after this series
of exits?

~~~
whoisjuan
I don't think this validates this space at all. If your only exit strategy is
to get acquired by a big 5 you're already in trouble.

Hardware is pretty freaking hard. Just look at recent examples of public
hardware companies: FitBit / GoPro. Both doing like crap, struggling to
maintain their grab on the market and looking for acquirers.

Honestly, I think this is a very unattractive sector, at least in this side of
the world. Most serious hardware contenders are and will keep coming from
China (DJI, Xiaomi, Yi, etc).

~~~
brlewis
Business is hard, whether it's hardware or software. I think a lot of
software-based companies wish they were "doing like crap" the way Fitbit is --
navigating through a couple years of unprofitability using a large pile of
cash gained through years of profit.

Disclaimer: I work for Fitbit but speak only for myself.

~~~
tostitos1979
I've generally been impressed of FitBit's business savvy. They get hw well
(keep BOM/per-unit costs under control). It was particularly instructive to
see the fate that befell Pebble (glad that fitbit hired a lot of those folks,
etc.).

------
blackrock
What is Amazon's angle here?

To get a video and photo ID of every person, living at an address? Then they
will run this through a face recognition deep learning AI, to get a digital
facial ID of everyone.

Now, they just one-upped Facebook. Where they know who lives where, and what
type of person they are. Male, female, young, old, skinny, fat, short, tall,
ethnicity, clothing style preferences, music preferences, healthy or sick.

Now, you don't even need to fill out those advertising questionnaires on who
you are. Amazon will just collect it automatically from this Ring doorbell
camera.

Now, they have a definitive demographic information on you, for targeted
advertising. They can either email you, or snail mail you. Since now, they
know exactly who you are. As well as who else lives with you.

And when you sign onto Amazon, the ads will be targeted directly at you.

1\. Hey, it looks like you have a daughter at home. Do you want to buy her a
nice little necklace for Christmas? We have a nice selection on sale here.

2\. Or if you are black. Hey, if you spend $20 on Amazon today, we can get you
free movie tickets to see the new Black Panther movie.

3\. Or if you are Asian. Hey, there is a new Chinese restaurant opening up in
your area. Spend $50 on Amazon today, and we can get you a free lunch special.

~~~
deegles
This isn't an apocalyptic scenario to a lot of people... Facebook and Google
are doing very well selling ads.

------
Apocryphon
August Home really missed the boat:

[https://seekingalpha.com/news/3332326-information-amazon-
off...](https://seekingalpha.com/news/3332326-information-amazon-
offered-100m-august-releasing-key)

------
blang
While I do think I understand why Amazon would want to purchase Ring (the
company), I don't fully understand why consumers would want to buy Ring (the
product).

The number one use I seem to see from it is people taking video and posting it
on nextdoor (package thief alert, car prowler alert, etc.) followed by other
people talking about how the neighborhood is going downhill and lamenting
about how the police don't do anything with their Ring video.

I guess this is my attitude on most of the home security field. It always
seems like the devices have a ton of false positives that just give the owners
something else to worry about, and the companies that sell these things
continue to do so because it gives owners the illusion that buying these
devices give them some sort of control.

~~~
ehsankia
Do you really not see the value of a live feed of who's at your door and a
clear 2 way audio feed?

The current existing solution either have really poor quality, are complicated
to install (require technician), and don't integrate with your smartphone.

I'm not talking about the Ring specifically, there are other competitors too
such as Nest Hello, but the idea seems pretty straight-forward and valuable to
anyone with a door.

~~~
freeone3000
How is it valuable, exactly? What's the gain?

~~~
cthalupa
1) Theft deterrent. Not getting your house broken into is more about not being
the most attractive target than anything else. Video cameras, motion detector
lights, no bushes blocking vision to windows, etc, all make an impact.

2) Seeing who is at the door without potentially having let them know that
you're there. In my house, there are glass windows to both sides of the door.
I cannot go look through the peep hole without them know I am there. I
purchased one after I had several days of a person (people?) ringing my
doorbell in between 3 AM and 5 AM, then driving around the neighborhood slowly
in their car. I certainly wasn't going to go answer it or announce my presence
in case something sketchy was going on.

3) Communicating with someone at the door if you need to. I sleep late on
weekends - sometimes I need to sign for a package. With the ring, I can let
them know that I'm there and just need to throw on some clothes, rather than
them leaving. Or if I'm in the restroom.

4) I want to keep an eye on the front porch while I'm gone, and get alerts on
motion detection. I can catch some neighborhood kids being stupid, or
something stealing a package, etc etc.

5) If they're leaving a package that isn't signature required, and I'm not
home, I can ask them to put it behind the bushes, etc.

------
KiDD
I assume Ring will never give the promised HomeKit support now...

~~~
marter
I just asked them on Twitter and they said it was “coming soon”

------
demoo
Interested how this plays into the best in class vision that Amazon pursues.

Does this acquisition allows them to take their Amazon Key service (Cloud Cam
+ service + tech) to the next level?

------
test6554
I had to return several of these after finally figuring out that the voltage
on my doorbell was higher than the maximum supported by ring.

------
aviv
On a side note, I believe this year we will see them acquire either
RingCentral or Dialpad.

------
elvirs
the word 'privacy implications' gets thrown around here so much and I'm
wondering what exactly can amazon do with a video of mailman walking up to
your doorstep that could violate your privacy?

------
bingobob
i guess no google assistant support now for ring products

------
tehlike
Curious if amazon would buy irobot.

~~~
yorby
irobot has lots of sensors (spying potential)

------
runwerks
safe to assume homekit compatibility is not going to be released?

------
aqsheehy
Home login system

------
Jyaif
inb4 SkyBell stops being sold on Amazon.

------
amarant
Wait, THE ring? Of another ring?

------
908087
So in the future it won't even be possible to visit a friend's front door
without being tracked by Google/Amazon/Facebook/etc?

A while back a friend of mine bought one of these "cloud"-connected doorbells,
and hadn't even considered the privacy implications. After I explained it to
him, he thankfully returned it and went back to using a normal doorbell.

People who install these should be forced to install a sign just outside of
the camera's view informing visitors that, by proceeding to the door, they
agree to Amazon/Google/whoever's privacy policy and ToS.

