

YC: Tales From the Startup Crypt - angstrom

I'm currently working for a startup that has lasted 6 years without a series B. I was talked into joining it 7 months ago by a friend, but ever since then things have been downhill. Recently the VCs brought in a consultant who basically was the CEO of another failed startup which died before it got off the ground. He in turn connected us with another consultant who was key in turning a couple of startups around that are now major companies (if you've ever bought anything online you've used their services).<p>This guy was given the task of forming contacts with other companies that would be interested in our technology. We receive a forwarded email about a month later by our CEO (who has now basically given up most control to the VCs). In it is an email forward from this consultant to an interested company. The email is chock full of features and promised to be beta ready by June 1st. Our CEO sent this out to us and has denied in emails going back and forth that there is anything to worry about.<p>Engineering is ticked because none of this information was even checked with us to see how much work would be involved. Meanwhile, our CEO founder keeps saying we just need to get this one feature and this other company won't care. It really sounds more like a case of overpromise, under sell. Whether he realizes it or not, 4/5 of the engineers are actively seeking new employment.<p>Unfortunately, it gets more dysfunctional than this.
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gscott
All salespeople overpromise, if they could have made the sale without doing so
they would have but that is not usually the case. It's your job to support the
salespeople who bring in the money by making what seems impossible, possible.
You are not angstrom any longer you are now "Super Angstrom" who pushes out
web apps as easily as you breath.

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angstrom
All _bad_ sales people overpromise. A real solution would not be shopping a
list of 'could have' 'should have' 'currently have' 'will not have' to the
partner company as 'already implemented and will have' so that the
requirements are realistic on both sides.

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gscott
Customers have custom needs. You have to give the customers what they need and
if you don't have it then you have to build it. That means promising things
and hiring people to create those things you promised. You can't tell the
customer "take what we have or nothing" and you can't tell the customer "come
back in a year". Sure there is some stress in getting the programming done and
tested and yes there are bumps along the way, but so far the "take it or leave
it" approach has not been working out and it seems like someone at least is
trying something new... its the "pay us and we will build it" approach.

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edw519
I agree completely, gscott.

You do whatever you gotta do to get the sale.

That's no excuse, however, for sales people to operate in a vacuum. It's
better for everyone if the entire team understands the plan.

And it'll be a lot easier for angstrom to become "Super Angstrom" if he has a
clue about what's going on instead of being nailed with an unreasonable demand
at the last minute.

If you want anyone to do anything "above and beyond the call of duty", doesn't
it naturally follow that you should do everything you can to help them do it?

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angstrom
Agreed. The problem with over promising is that in every case that I've seen
it done (I've seen this 3 times in my short 4.5 year career) the promises were
made without analyzing if the agreement fits what's _needed_ not what's
_wanted_. And in every case the cost to satisfy a customer that has been
deceived was higher than the profit from the sale that was made.

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gscott
That is funny because that is what I do, I fill the gap between what is needed
and wanted. I believe it would be uncommon for the customer to spec out
everything down to what each screen looks like and the logic behind each page
and it would be uncommon for the saleperson to do that too. Someone has to be
the "interpreter" between the customer vision and the salespersons vision
(both of which are valuable) and come up with a working prototype or at least
page by page html screens.

I guess that begs the question who in your company is the interpreter. Sounds
like you would be a good fit for that position. An approach would be "Hi my
name is x in x position, great job on the sale with x company. I would like to
help define the x features that will be released upon launch and a timeline
for the customer to launch as quickly as possible and help define launch dates
for the remaining features".

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swombat
That's interesting. Why do you think he's doing this? Assuming the guy isn't
an idiot (and there's no reason to assume he is), why would he do this? Has he
gotten enough of a payout that he wants to bail out? Or have you misunderstood
the situation? Or both? Or what?

Daniel

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angstrom
I'll know more come Monday when our CEO gets back from a meeting.

He didn't want to explain things over email...which is probably a good sign
that whatever he has to say needs to be fluffed in order to sound right. I
honestly think that if you can't make your argument in text, you can't make
your argument. We'll see.

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babul
Unless you are able to seriously influence things for the better, you should
also consider your options and leave if need be. 6 years is a long time in the
startup world and they have had lots of time to get things right.

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noodle
take a cue from the other engineers and start looking. you don't need to jump
ship, but find out what your options are, and if you do actually like them
better, get out of there.

edited to add: if you find a good option but don't want to necessarily leave,
you can then have a heart-to-heart and try to direct the flow of things back
on track, or jump ship.

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musiciangames
While Larry Ellison built an empire on over promising+, it doesn't sound like
you have much chance on even getting close to delivering, if all of
engineering is on the point of leaving.

There are two sides to the phrase "don't confuse selling with installing".
Delivering custom solutions, that can be productised, to key reference
customers, in a valuable niche, is good strategy (see "Crossing the Chasm").
Promising anything to get a sale to get some money, and worrying about how to
deliver later, is usually a sign that people's jobs are on the line and they
are taking desperate risks.

+Causing the SEC to rewrite rules on revenue recognition, and hence causing
headaches for every sales rep in the IT industry ever since.

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ericb
Sounds painful, but I have seen startups succeed by over-promising before.
Most salespeople will do this, and when you don't have much, it's often the
only way to get by. You can get mad, or you can try and make it work.

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patrickg-zill
Get out now.

