
Mental health in startups - jd_routledge
https://medium.com/@anonent/mental-health-in-startups-14726f22c5d1#.n7ftx6d5i
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jd_routledge
Hi,

I just wrote a piece about mental health in startups.

This is something that has been covered by a few others in the past, but I
still don’t think it is talked about enough.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I am trying to raise awareness and
getting people to talk about their struggles more and more.

If you think that this is a topic we should be talking about more please could
you like and share my post around?

Also if you know of any other great resource on the topic please can you share
it with me?

Thanks so much, James

~~~
a-guest
I would argue many of the mental health issues you describe in your post can
be found in more traditional corporate environments as well when the mindset
you bring as an employee to your job is one of extreme ownership and personal
investment from the standpoint of time and effort.

~~~
markeroon
Not sure why you're being downvoted, but yes, of course. The same issues can
be found everywhere.

It isn't just startups themselves that cause these issues, there's a
predisposition. My cofounders way back when could handle the pressure just
fine.

I'd recommend anyone who is experiencing mental health issues to talk to a
therapist. CBT is good for panic, and psychotherapy is good for anxiety and
depression (imo.)

~~~
malsun
To me it seems like a mindset issue rather than a predisposition - having gone
through it.

Employment is mostly about taking on the burden of someone else's stress and
handling it. When your stress becomes too much the employer hires peers and
perhaps gives you some minions to make things better.

If you were never taught how to manage stress and your family hasn't ingrained
stoic values into you (because they themselves were never taught them) then
the body is going to become overwhelmed, give up and switch into protective
mode, also known as burnout, anxiety, depression, breakdowns etc.

~~~
jd_routledge
Great comment - thanks for sharing. I think I agree - it's not just about the
environment you work in (although I think certain environments bring it out
more), it's a certain type of personality/mindset maybe.

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mark_integerdsv
I just really like to see more of the startup related stuff on HN.

I know that talking about content and your preference of things posted to HN
is discouraged but I need to mention that for me personally, it's really
helped me in the past to see other people talking about this stuff.

I live in South Africa and there isn't a huge startup scene here.

Checking out HN every couple of days and seeing stuff about other people going
through the startup phases played a role in getting me to the point where I
believed I could do it.

I failed but even then, I knew that failure wasn't the end. I learned that
here. I saw Eric Reis book recommended here and I lurked on several thread
where people discussed the trials and tribulations they were going through.

I discovered fakegrimlock here and he showed me the importance of being on
fire, why I must burn.

Nice post, thanks.

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johnward
I've never run a startup so I don't know exactly how you feel but I do feel
many of these things in my corporate job day to day. There is even some creep
from startup culture finding it's way into corporate life. Now megacorps are
launching new product/divisions/whatever and treating them as a "startup".
What that tends to mean is "we expect you to work more hours than you are now,
for the same pay, even though we're already making billions of dollars a
year".

~~~
jd_routledge
I knew these issues would be in the corporate world too but obviously I can't
relate. These problems reach further then we'll ever know I think.

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beat
Ah, the panic attacks. If I don't wake up with one at least once every three
weeks, I feel I'm not working hard enough. Besides, 3am is a good time to get
work done.

That said, I believe pacing yourself is a big part of managing the mental
health issues. Make sure you eat, sleep, exercise, and take appropriate
breaks, even if you feel you _have to work_. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

~~~
jd_routledge
I hope you don't really think like that.

Your second point is completely true and much more sensible. It's about
working sustainably.

~~~
beat
I actually do think like that. It's a way of coping positively with the
reality of the panic attacks. Recognizing that they're just a physical
reaction to the stress of doing something that is both difficult and important
is a way of not letting them govern my thinking.

What's different is depression. I don't know of a way to make myself feel
positive about the bouts of depression. Then again, I've dealt with depression
all my life. It seems independent of my founder life. Panic attacks, on the
other hand, are very much a product of my founder life.

Treating panic attacks (which generally only occur at night, waking me up from
sleep) as a natural result of the work is just a coping mechanism. It may not
be the best one, or even a good one, but it works well enough for me.

~~~
taurath
In my experience, whatever reason you are working for what you're working for,
what you do to get there matters, because those are the skills you are
building. If you are having bi-weekly panic attacks then you're as likely to
drop dead in your early 50s than enjoy the fruit of your labor. Is what you
are doing more important than your life? It may be, but I would hope you're
making that calculation. Living your whole life building up health debt is the
same as building a system with technical debt - it WILL come calling someday.

~~~
beat
I'm already in my early 50s (today is my 51st birthday). One of the things
I've learned after a couple of years of trying to build a startup is that I
_love_ working on my startup. I'd put twenty years into a career in enterprise
IT, and it made me miserable. I realized that it's not the work itself I don't
like - it's working for others, working on things I think are stupid and
pointless and doomed.

The problem is this means for now, I'm working two jobs, and I'm heading for a
rough transition to working just one and the financial implications of that.
That's a lot of stress.

On the other hand, doing a job I have come to despise until I'm too old to do
it anymore, instead of doing something that _matters to me_ , that makes me
feel meaningful and accomplished... that's a whole different kind of stress.
That's the kind that grinds you down and wears you to a nub. Once you hit a
certain age, perspective really starts to set in. I look around at people in
their 40s and 50s, and they're broken. They think their best years and best
opportunities are all behind them. I look at mine, and they're ahead of me.
That keeps me alive.

~~~
taurath
I think there'll always be groups of people like that. In my 20s there were
big groups of people who's "best years" were in high school. Now approaching
30 and finding a lot of people bemoaning how good life was in their 20s when
they were in college or traveling the world. For me life has gotten better and
easier as I've gotten older, so far. Most of my enjoyment comes out of
exploring and finding new places and getting to know people. I take any work I
do seriously and try to do things that I think will matter and make a
difference but I also realize I'm a small fish in a very big pond. I still
have ambition and I'll always strive to be my best, but there is always the
possibility of my health failing or other circumstances. I intend to be
flexible with whatever life throws at me. I hope I'll be able to share your
perspective when I'm your age!

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jkxyz
I think that mental health and work is something that's not talked about
enough as a whole. If I don't feel safe making the journey to work in the
morning then that's something that I want to be able to talk about with my
manager. And if I'm not capable of doing anything more than staring at emails
for a few days then it shouldn't be shameful to say that I'm suffering in ways
that aren't physically obvious. It's so much easier to cope if you have a
support network that includes your employer. Otherwise the shame and fear of
being accused of making excuses to skive off of work can escalate very easily.

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jean_cajuzzi
Optimize yourself until exhaustion. (tired eyes)

I would also like to frame this issue as a symptom of neoliberal capitalism,
where mechanisms of the global markert are internalized as one's own needs and
wills: investing in a better future, without ever ending up there, being
creative and flexible nonstop for economical reasons.

I think it's important to deal with one's own anxieties and stresssymptoms
also by sharing the knowledge and experiences.

But above that I also wonder, what we all together are keeping up, by asking
of ourself and our collueges to exploit ourself (in academia, in start-ups, in
traditional corporate environments,...)

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gonyea
Regading sleep: IMO it's vital to stop working at least 2-hours before bed.
Your brain never stops and you never sleep well. Maintaining work/life
boundaries and having a routine will help in keeping you sane.

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nwah1
I mistakenly thought this would be about startups addressing mental health. We
need more of those.

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Joof
Replace startups with research and you had me for a while. I had to ban myself
from even reading academic papers (it's like my cocaine) and get a regular
job.

Academia? Naa, I don't touch the stuff anymore.

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calibraxis
Not just bad feelings. Lashing out and various forms of abuse are (partly) a
result of such mental health problems. (And partly intrinsic to the forms of
organization.)

