
0 XP: The Zynga Counterrevolution - rrbrambley
http://www.mediumdifficulty.com/2012/07/11/0-xp-the-zynga-counterrevolution/
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comex
The article inaccurately represents TF2: you _can_ buy weapons for a few
dollars (not 10), but random drops are common enough that even a new player
can fairly easily trade them for any weapon he wants, and eventually you'll
end up with most of the weapons in the game with no effort, so you never
really need to pay. (I've made a point of never buying weapons simply because
I think trading is fun.) High-end items like hats _are_ highly priced in
trading, making them more attractive to buy, and the rarest ones are worth
hundreds of dollars, but they are (with minor exceptions that are around for
historical reasons) purely cosmetic.

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neutronicus
I would really like to play a Role Playing Game without any kind of XP
mechanic. I think it'd be really cool to play through an epic storyline that
my character came through about as strong at the end as it was at the
beginning.

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klodolph
I want to make an RPG with a reverse XP mechanic. You start the game at level
99 and a full suite of skills, and they disappear as you progress. You fight
the final boss with nothing but a few HP, your wits, and a wooden sword.

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lmm
So at the start of the game, when you're new, your battles are about choosing
optimally between 20 different powers. And at the end, with maximum
experience, the battle is about pressing "sword attack" repeatedly until the
enemy dies.

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rrbrambley
"There may be no shortage of commentators ready to decry pay-to-win grindfests
as 'evil' design, but what’s still needed is a code of ethical game mechanics
that provides a yardstick to measure which games and which game designers can
be trusted not to unduly manipulate their audience."

Couldn't agree more. It's easier than ever to get games in the hands of
eager/bored people via mobile and Facebook, and companies are thus
capitalizing on these users by building shallow experiences while optimizing
for revenues _instead of_ fun.

Additionally, I think more game devs need to speak out against the "evil"
design. I hear a lot of tech-savvy people talking about this stuff verbally,
but is the common person really aware of the amount of time that is spent
trying to engineer them into being addicted? I realize that as developers, we
don't necessarily benefit from spending a lot more time building something
just to end up making less money, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

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njharman
> It's easier than ever to get games in the hands of eager/bored people via
> mobile and Facebook, and companies are thus capitalizing on these users by
> building shallow experiences while optimizing for revenues instead of fun.

Change some of the nouns and that describes most capitalist consumerism.
Entertainment, cloths, cars, starbucks et al, etc. (rest of it is based on
fear/shame).

The root cause is much, much deeper than Zynga or Facebook.

~~~
hopefully
"Creating a need" is certainly an often employed strategy.

I love technology. I'm not very good, I'm not very clever or a great coder,
but I'm still more geeky than non-geeks. Now, There are plenty of people who
are not deeply fascinated with it, but use technology to make their lives
easier.

Why can't we just built good things for them, and everybody can go home
knowing they haven't been ripping off or been ripped off -- ??

This focus on profit and fads, it's doing my head in. When I was a kid I was
ashamed because computers weren't cool, now I'm ashamed because they _are_ ,
and because of what is done with them without blinking. They're just tools,
but he haven't improved much, so we just use them to do BS faster. Come on,
there has to be more. /rant

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_delirium
Wow, Zynga seems to be proving a Poe's Law for videogame design. Cow Clicker
seemed like funny satire, but it can no longer compete with this apparently
_earnest_ game design, which is literally a slot machine game, except that
after inserting your "Bucket of Coins, $19.99", you don't even have a remote
chance of getting it back.

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uvTwitch
Zynga aren't really designing games, they're designing drugs.

~~~
mikescar
But what's the difference really? Zynga games vs. non-Zynga games, slot
machines vs. WoW, and games vs drugs?

All of these things are designed to let you go somewhere else for a while. I
partake in all of them, but also spend time volunteering and going outside.

I don't get the author's argument about how much better he is than slot
machine players because he spends his free time using more intricate games
than they do. Not to mention he gets about half his assumptions wrong, as
pointed out in this thread. As in, which casinos charge money for drinks to
anyone who's playing a game?

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tatsuke95
> _"As in, which casinos charge money for drinks to anyone who's playing a
> game?"_

Every casino I've been to, ever.

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recursive
I went to Vegas once. One night I hit a few casinos. I drank a fair amount,
and didn't pay for one.

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tatsuke95
I think Vegas is the exception, to be honest. And it's ruined my perception!
Before I was old enough to visit the casinos, I assumed they all served free
drinks. I've never experienced it (though 90% of my trips are within Canada).

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Groxx
Nitpick alert: Minecraft lets you "manually adjust the number of farmable
resources in your inventory"? I wasn't aware cheating tools should be factored
into this game ethic. Unless something has radically changed since I last
played it?

Honestly, I can only _hope_ that this is accurate, and that the downward
trends for slot machine games is real and will continue. It's ruining gaming
and _fun_ in general, and replacing it with causing - and then satisfying - an
addiction.

I remain unconvinced that it will actually _happen_ , though. This current
crop of Zyngaville gamers may be tiring of the shenanigans, but I expect it to
merely be replaced with something equally draining that people aren't
desensitized to, hooking the next generation. We're still addicted to the TV,
last time I looked. If anything, games provide _more_ opportunity than one-way
media, I would expect them to strictly out-last TV in lifespan and damage.

~~~
mdonahoe
If you play on a server that you control, it is trivial to 'give' resources to
anyone in the game. You type 'give <username> <item_id> <quantity>' and that
resource will drop in front of the desired player.

I find that this instant gratification quickly spoils survival mode. You can
give yourself thousands of diamonds without the thrill and danger of mining
them the real way. Inevitably I just give myself tons of TNT and blow up the
world.

Similarly, if you play chess against a stupid computer, it gets boring.

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dsirijus
I doubt that Zynga's decline has anything to do with their flawed mechanics
(I'd argue that it's flawed too), and everything with Facebook effectively
killing it (specifically, 'Requests') in feed.

There's no feedback loop in there anymore for Zynga's cows.

