
Retina MacBook Pro review as a Mac Pro owner - rkudeshi
http://www.marco.org/2012/08/26/retina-mbp-review
======
forrestthewoods
"The long-standing performance gap between the Mac Pro and the MacBook Pro is
now effectively moot"

That's what happens when the Mac Pro product line is allowed to stagnate and
run 2-3 year old parts. The difference is infact moot, and that's a damn
shame. =[

~~~
cageface
A good friend of mine that really wanted a modern OS X workstation went the
Hackintosh route. He built a machine that's not only much more powerful than
the current line of Mac Pros but also considerably cheaper.

I can understand why Apple is neglecting this segment for financial reasons
but I do think they're slowly losing their exclusive cachet with the creative
set.

Edit: misspelling.

~~~
w1ntermute
Check out this guide, it's got a full walkthrough for purchasing the parts for
and assembling Hackintoshes of various calibers:
[http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/2012/08/building-customac-
buy...](http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/2012/08/building-customac-buyers-
guide-2012.html)

~~~
cageface
I assumed that building and maintaining a hackintosh machine would be a pretty
major pain in the ass but my friend says it was no more difficult than
building a bespoke Windows machine as long as you did a tiny bit of up-front
research on parts.

~~~
w1ntermute
It's no different from building any other PC, except for the restrictions on
parts, like you said.

Nowadays you don't even have to worry much about that - there are high
quality, in-depth guides that will walk you through the entire process step-
by-step, if you need them: [http://lifehacker.com/5841604/the-always-
up+to+date-guide-to...](http://lifehacker.com/5841604/the-always-up+to+date-
guide-to-building-a-hackintosh)

------
cheald
I recently picked up a retina MBP for work-related purposes, and it's a good
machine, but I wouldn't review it nearly as breathlessly as this particular
review does.

It's attractive, it's got a great build quality, and it's decently fast. I
can't really tell the difference (in terms of "omg, teh pixels are invisible")
between the Retina display and my HP Envy's 1920x1080 screen, but that might
be because I don't sit with my face six inches from the screen. Text looks
better on the MBP, but I credit most of that to the fact that OS X's font
engine just blows Linux's (I run Fedora 17 on the Envy) out of the water.

Despite that, my daily driver is still my Windows desktop, running an i5 at
4.3GHz, with an SSD for my OS and programs, 2TB of magnetic storage, and 16 GB
of RAM. That particular setup ran me well under $1k. My actual dev happens on
a Fedora whitebox on my LAN, again with an i5 and 16GB of RAM, which I built
for about $400.

The retina MBP is a nice piece of tech, but it's not the orgasm-inducing
Jesus-box that some people seem to think it is. I probably couldn't justify
the cost of one versus the competitors if I were buying it for personal use.

~~~
colmvp
Well yes, of COURSE you could build a desktop for less money than a laptop.
Unlike some people I've seen at Starbucks though, I don't feel comfortable
lugging desktops from place to place. Not to mention it'd take up a bunch of
space while I'm trying to get work done on the flight in economy class.

~~~
cheald
There are plenty of comparable laptops for far less money, too. It's not like
the only options in the laptop market are $2200+ MBP or nothing.

I like the MBP. It's a great piece of hardware. I don't think the retina
display is the quantum leap in laptop technology that it's made out to be. I
don't feel any particular need to justify my purchase by citing the need to
have top-end specs, because if I need maxed out specs, I can get them in my
desktop for an order of magnitude less money. I enjoy working from the comfort
of my desk with my big monitors and my mechanical keyboard and my nice
speakers (and frankly, dislike working elsewhere without them), so laptop vs
desktop is a moot point for me.

~~~
shrughes
> There are plenty of comparable laptops for far less money, too.

What do you mean by "comparable"? The only decent quad core laptops in the
same weight class are the Vaio Z, Panasonic CF-B11, and 14" EliteBook -- and
with those (or any heavier modern computer) you have a 16:9 aspect ratio. If
you need maxed out specs and don't want to work from a desktop, these are the
kinds of computers you want to get. Take a Thinkpad T520, remove the optical
drive, give it a 1920x1200 screen and the X1 Carbon's trackpad and you'll have
a comparable laptop. Or if Panasonic would just go for the 16:10 screen ratio,
you wouldn't even have to drop the optical drive.

------
jrockway
For another unbiased review, we go live to John Gruber!

~~~
mitjak
Indeed! "Scrolling sucks but here's a quote from another review on why that's
OK". I'm not saying competitors' offerings are better, nor am I failing to
realize that's just _his opinion_ but come on, this is clearly from someone
who's only bought Macs for years. Just saying, lets stick to the larger grains
of salt, and upvote actual professional reviews instad.

~~~
jamesaguilar
Where did someone say it was OK? As far as I can tell they just explained the
reasons it occurred.

~~~
mitjak
That's really not the point.

------
adamtaylor
I'm always intrigued by these claims that you can get something basically the
same as a Mac for much cheaper. When I've investigated in the past (but in the
OS X era---it seems generally accepted that Macs were sold at a hefty premium
in the 80s and 90s), I've generally found the price difference to by in the
~10% neighborhood.

I just priced out a grossly-similar laptop to the Macbook Pro Retina at Dell's
website, and came up with a Latitude E6520 with a price of $1931. Less than a
Macbook Pro Retina by about 15%. The Latitude has a slightly faster processor,
a graphics chip with half as much video memory, no retina display, weighs ~1.5
lbs more, and (I suspect) lacks Apple's all-around build quality.

However, a System 76 laptop with similar specs as the MBPR costs $1153. But
that's with only the Intel HD 4000 graphics (no NVIDIA chip), and, again, no
retina display.

So, I don't know. Can anyone offer some insight into why the System 76 system
is so inexpensive compared to the base-model MBPR and the Latitude above?

I know that Dell sells, for instance, Inspirons, which are much cheaper than
Latitudes, but my understanding is that these machines are essentially
composed of whatever components can be bought most cheaply this week, and so
they pose maintenance headaches, because it may be difficult to obtain a
component that dies a year after purchase. Also, my personal experience with
Inspirons is that they have very poor build quality.

------
srgseg
Intel's roadmap for how long it'll take for everything to go retina: (png)

[http://media.bestofmicro.com/M/F/333879/original/Intel-
Roadm...](http://media.bestofmicro.com/M/F/333879/original/Intel-Roadmap-
to-4K.png)

------
akurilin
I just recently got hold of an older MacBook pro after years of Windows/Linux
laptops and I got to say that I've been really impressed by the both the
hardware and the user experience that's created through the amazing touchpad.

I feel that the OS itself might be a bit too heavy/slow for what I'm used to,
and so I'd love to have the option to install Ubuntu on a MBP Retina and still
have that awesome user experience. It's my understanding that getting any
distro to work perfectly with Apple's laptops has been a neverending uphill
battle.

I read that Gnome and Unity don't quite scale properly for the new resolution
and I also don't think you get quite the same awesome gesture-based navigation
you expect from every app running on OS X.

One can dream though. It would be unfortunate to let such wonderful hardware
go to waste. I've always been that guy, carrying a wireless mouse around with
me because all of the laptop trackpads were absolutely atrocious, always in
the way, always accidentally clicking for me when my palms would be over them.
After trying a MBP, I finally figured out why I would never see Apple
customers carry around mice.

------
jonah
This.

"I used it at the scaled “1680 × 1050” resolution the entire time, since the
native “1440 × 900” resolution isn’t enough space..."

Now, granted, I've only used it for 15 minutes at the store and not a week
straight, but the poor IMHO software scaling required to get more "usable"
space is a huge bummer for me. (I went for the high-res 1680 × 1050 display
when I bought my latest MBP last year to get the greater screen real estate.)

~~~
ropiku
This is my main issue too, but I played around at the Apple Store with scaled
resolution and decided to go for it.

~~~
jonah
And how is it in day to day use? What display settings are you using?

------
Void_
Maybe you should get another MacBook Pro Retina and use it as an external
monitor.

------
lubos
$2,200 for a laptop? Post-purchase rationalization anyone?

~~~
aaronblohowiak
I spent 4k for maxed out ram and a larger SSD. I'll spend more time
interfacing with this machine than with anything else in my life over the next
3 years. I advocate spending a lot on your Computer, chair and bed, and
spending little on your car.

~~~
RegEx
It seems a good portion of the HN crowd is obsessed with spending more money
than necessary. I totally get the "Put money into things that matter" idea,
but overpaying for outdated specs is not some honorable trait.

~~~
shinratdr
Because a computer is nothing more than a list of specs right? It's the same
quality logic behind "My number is bigger than his, so therefore my computer
is better."

~~~
RegEx
> Because a computer is nothing more than a list of specs right?

What else would it be? If my computer is faster, cheaper, and lets me
accomplish the same things in the same amount of time, how could it be worse?

~~~
AllenKids
Oh. There are a thousand ways it could be worse.

~~~
RegEx
Could you share some? I use a MBP at work, and if I'm not "doing it right",
I'd like to know how I can get the most out of my machine.

~~~
ricardobeat
It's all about getting the most of _your time using the machine_ , unless
you're doing CPU-intensive work (and why wouldn't you offload that to a server
farm?). Convenience, reliability, usability, efficiency, etc.

After obsessing over pc parts since childhood, these days I don't give a shit
about specs and am happier for it - unless I'm trying to play Counter-strike,
even then I only wish I could use my PS3 and forget about it :)

~~~
RegEx
My work MBP is fast enough for what I do. I don't need 16gig 2133 DDR3, or an
i7. My problem, though, is that you're paying PC i7 level price for an i3/5,
for example.

~~~
shinratdr
That's like saying by buying a Smart Car you're paying V6 price for a four
cylinder engine. In other words, you couldn't be missing the point more.

~~~
RegEx
I guess I just view things from a different perspective, not having the
disposable income of the average HNer (where 2200 is a "rounding error", as
seen in this thread)

------
swah
I'd go for a lower resolution one now that I read about the slow scrolling
thing, that would really bother me...

------
Yhippa
Before I clicked the link to read the review I worked out in my head what his
review would be like. I figured it would be gushingly positive with minimal
criticism.

What a joy it was to read the first sentence of that second paragraph.
Vindication.

------
apress
And of course he leaves out the far more damning day to day problem with the
rMBP right now -- many popular non-Apple programs including Word and Photoshop
look _worse_ than they do on a non-retina display. Anandtech has the story
[http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-
pro-w...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-
retina-display-review/6)

~~~
WaltFrench
“We’re obviously in the middle of two awkward transitions: toward all-Retina
screens…”

Maybe you didn't read the same review I saw. In what _I_ read, he chose the
right resolution for different uses, his unique choice out of many potentials.
Yes, I'd rather that apps for Macs be written to be apps for _ALL_ Macs. But
life has a way of sorting that out.

~~~
apress
Maybe you didn't read the same link? Arment did not mention that text in some
apps looks worse on the rMBP than on a non-retina screen, which is true
regardless of the chosen resolution on the rMBP and is a pretty big issue
right now if you use one of those apps frequently -- stopped me dead in my
tracks when I saw it at the Apple store. He was using the lower resolutions to
avoid the lagginess problem. Eventually this will be sorted out -- although
Microsoft's early signals and Mac track record indicate it might be a long
wait. But it's relevant information that many potential buyers would want to
know.

------
cromwellian
or, you could buy an AlienWare Aurora mid-range, where $2200 gets you the
following:

4.1 Ghz 4 cores. 16Gb 1600Mhz memory Dual 1.5 GB Nvidia 660's 1TB SATA. If you
want to spend $75 more you can get a 1TB RAID0 SSD/HD hybrid.

Of course, if you're willing to spend about $4000, you can build a Linux PC
that will smoke any Mac product by a 2:1 margin in performance. This is coming
from a Mac Pro user, Apple's neglect of this line has disappointed me. When I
bought my 2005 Mac pro, it was the best quad-core system you could buy from a
cost/performance. Now high-end rigs are ridiculously overpriced.

The only thing you lose with a high end Linux PC is the Retina display and
portability, but I do most of my coding at my desk, and I'll take a 30" non-
Retina display any day of the week until someone can ship a 30" Retina
display. I prize actual number of readable windows I can cram onto the screen
over minor improvements in e-Book reading.

Honestly, I'd buy two machines. The cheapest MacBook Air for moving about (or
just use an iPad), but a Linux Desktop for real work.

~~~
notJim
> The only thing you lose with a high end Linux PC is the Retina display and
> portability

This is far, far from the truth, based on my current experiences trying Linux
from an OS X/Windows world. Other things you lose: sane GUIs and desktop
environment, quality font rendering (both Mac and Windows do it better),
reasonable design sensibilities out of the box, stability, just general
freedom from constant frustration.

I'm working on a post about my experiences that will provide more details
about my experiences (and for what it's worth, I have not given up on Linux
yet), but if you're used to OS X or even Windows, switching to Linux is _not_
an easy trade off. I'm trying to remove the angry from the post so that it can
be more constructive, which is proving to be difficult :).

~~~
cromwellian
I've been developing on Unix for 20 years, I don't have many frustrations with
it, about the same level as OSX, certainly not "constant frustration"

There are two things I like to do with a powerful computer:

1) Play high end performance sensitive games like Battlefield 3. Apple gets
crushed in gaming performance.

2) Write code. The slower my computer is, the less productive I am.

I spend 99% of my time in the command line, IDE, and in the web browser.

Look, you are talking to someone who is a big fan of OS/X (but HATED non-Unix
Apple OS). OS/X was the Unix I always wanted. But Apple simply is not
competitive at the bleeding edge of computing power, they are making devices
for consumers, overpriced devices. I care about buying the most amount of
computing power I can for a given $. I like getting under the hood of my
hardware. With the generic PC, I can build my own systems to spec, I can tune
it the way I want.

I'm not saying that this is for everyone, but if you are someone who owned a
Mac Pro, a Retina MacBook is not a replacement when other desktops with far
more power for the $ are available, and the Retina screen is mostly irrelevant
when people with Mac Pros typically had giant monitors attached.

I'm not saying the Retina MacBook is not a good laptop, in fact, it is a
great, if not the best laptop. But I don't believe in desktop replacements.
Portability trades off power due to weight, size, battery, and heat
constraints. People with highend desktops usually don't want to make those
tradeoffs, in fact, they typically make the opposite ones: 1000W power
supplies, liquid cooling, ultra heavy heatsinks, etc.

~~~
notJim
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I have some extra requirements,
and Linux doesn't come anywhere close to meeting them, at least not out of the
box. I suspect that many OS X users have similar expectations to me.

I do the same things as you with my computers, except with the addition that I
am very picky about aesthetics and usability. The reason I wanted to use Linux
was because I wanted to use my powerful gaming system as a development
machine, and didn't want to go the hackintosh route, but my experience seems
to indicated that it's going to take a lot of work to bring the Linux install
to an acceptable standard.

------
tomlu
One thing to keep in mind for prospective buyers that already have a MBP is
that the keyboard is really quite different. The travel is a _lot_ shallower.
I loved the MBP's keyboard, so for me the redesign was a bit gratuitous. You
do get used to it, but it may be best to try before you buy.

------
uptown
How's the Retina MBP heat-wise compared to prior generations of the 15" MBP?
That's my only complaint with my 2011 MBP - the thing is an oven on my lap -
even with a laptop cooler attached, it's warm.

~~~
nacs
I multitask pretty heavily (Eclipse, lots of browser tabs, XCode and such) and
haven't noticed it getting hot at all.

I've only noticed it getting warm when the NVIDIA card kicks in when a game is
running (not an uncomfortable level however).

------
celerity
Oof, here's a list of things I can buy with $2200: A $600 1080p tablet, a
$1200 slightly-heavier-but-beefier laptop that runs Linux, a small telescope
with the rest.

Give me a break.

