

Show HN: Skimling - A Platform to Help Kids Improve Their Writing - jjets718
http://skimling.com/

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dvdhsu
I just sent an e-mail to you. There might be other people contemplating
starting a service like this, so as somebody who also considered it, I'll post
the important parts here:

1\. Most teachers are willing to help out students. Why would a student pay
for your service?

2\. An obvious answer to the above is "we'll focus on the students that have
teachers that are unwilling to help". From my experience, that's a small
market.

3\. You also have to consider that the ones who would be interested in this
service are ones who really want to have a good essay (I'll come back to this
later); the union of the two sets is even smaller. I'm not entirely sure you
would be able to churn profits from just this subset.

4\. Moving beyond teachers, how will you compete with EssayJudge? They offer
an amazing service for nothing. The quality of their service is hard to beat
already, and their price impossible to overcome.

5\. How will you vet the quality of your "teachers"? If a student isn't happy
with the response, will you refund the money? What if your customers are
immoral? (I've found that the union of immoral people and students is quite
large.) Looking on HN, I see somebody mentioning "chargebacks"; that would
indeed be a big problem.

6\. What is your target market? Are you aiming for people who want to buy
ghostwriters, or are you aiming for people who simply want to get a good grade
(from "Doing well on essays is part of doing well in school, and doing well in
school leads to a better life!", that seems to be your target audience), or
are you aiming for people who really want to improve their writing? It seems
that you're focusing on the penultimate, but is that really a good decision?
Why wouldn't they just hire a ghostwriter instead?

7\. An easy answer is "they're pretty good writers already, they just need
that little bit of editing". If so, it looks like you're focusing on the last
group. That's where the money lies, but your advertising doesn't seem to be
targeted towards them.

This is by no means a complete list of the problems you'll face. You should
probably have answers to many of these before starting/going forwards though.

~~~
Kluny
I agree with your opinions, and wish to point out that your are using the word
"union" when I think you mean "intersection".

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory#Basic_concepts>

~~~
dvdhsu
Doh! You're absolutely right. I'm sorry I got them mixed up, I probably
confused a lot of people.

I'll fix It as soon as I get home. Thanks for pointing it out!

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thejteam
I don't think the math works out well for you. The cost is 12 dollars per
essay. If I understand stripe's fees, you will pay 65 cents per transaction.
You are paying teachers via paypal, I do not know their fees but it will
probably be in the ballpark of 50-60 cents to transfer 10 dollars. So 12 -10 -
0.65 - paypal fees = 0.75 to 0.85 profit per transaction. Not sure how
automated everything is, but it seems like you will be doing a bit of work for
what amounts to a large pack of gum.

Now consider chargebacks. Stripe charges a 15 dollar fee per chargeback. So
for each chargeback you lose (15+10+1.25(transaction fees above) = 26.25 or
so. I have a feeling you will have a larger than average number of chargebacks
due to children borrowing their parent's credit card to get their essay
graded.

I assume you are paying the teachers as independent contractors? Are you
prepared to issue 1099's to all of them at the end of the year?

And not to sound too harsh but nothing on this site looks professional at all.
It reads like it was written by a Nigerian scammer.

EDIT: fixed my math

------
HardyLeung
This is a nice idea. However, I would suggest a better name. Skimling is
derived from the word "skim", and "skim over" means to READ SUPERFICIALLY.
This is not a good message to prospective students.

You need to think harder about quality control. A simple email-based dispute
process is a start, but you need more. How about teacher rating? Teacher
credentials, etc.

~~~
jjets718
Improving quality control is probably the most important feature I'd like to
add for the next iteration of the product. Each teacher that signs up is
approved by me individually; so I go the website of the teacher's current
employer and confirm that they are in fact a teacher. A rating system is
definitely a critical next step for the product though. I also appreciate your
input about the name. I always thought of it as being catchy, but will work on
finding one that promotes a better message. Thanks for checking out the site!

------
jjets718
Hi everyone! I'm the sixteen year old founder of Skimling! I'm going to be
launching this weekend, but wanted to get feedback from the HN community! Let
me know what you think, and feel free to email me at jack@skimling.com if you
have any questions!

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smalter
I like the concept.

I would work on improving the copy, especially because this is a writing-
related startup.

Fewer exclamation points and fewer words will help.

~~~
jjets718
Thanks for checking it out! I will definitely make changes to the copy before
I launch!

~~~
dmbass
_Doing well on essays is part of doing well in school, and doing well in
school leads to a better life!_

That line is particularly appalling and represents one of the many things that
is wrong with our education system. That logical progression is what
encourages people to cheat (plagiarism and paying for essays count).

Maybe try something more like "Getting feedback and incorporating it into your
thought and work process will help you get it right the next time for your
whole life."

~~~
theorique
What kind of appalling? There's definitely a correlation between education
level and lifetime earnings, life satisfaction, etc.

(Yes, many people do fine with low levels of formal education. However, many
or most of them are curious, self-educated,and self educating people with good
habits.)

------
sequoia
I understand that everyone does what they can to get ahead in school and as a
parent I know everyone wants their child to succeed, but I can't help but feel
that a service like this, especially if it becomes common, will be put kids
with limited means at an _even greater_ disadvantage compared to their more
well heeled peers. OP: I know this is probably impossible, but any chance of
"scholarships" or a pro-bono service for poor kids? In any case if it
genuinely achieves greater understanding and isn't just a "pay a teacher to
clean up my essay" service, I hope it's a success!

~~~
dvdhsu
I mentioned EssayJudge above. Basically, it's the same service, but free.

The founder is also the one who goes over the essays. His comments are
amazing, and his price can't be beat.

<http://essayjudge.com/>

~~~
sequoia
"We are trying to provide a _servivce_ to self-motivated learners."

Ruh roh! :p

------
djb_hackernews
Great idea.

Copy is dense.

Price seems off. Maybe $12 per semester or something.

How does it compare to the competition?

~~~
jjets718
Thanks for checking it out! I haven't done much research on competing sites,
but am sure competitors exist. I may look at changing the price as well. The
conundrum that I'm in is the fact that I would like to make the service as
inexpensive as possible, while giving value to the teachers as well. The price
of each essay is something I have to think about more and talk to customers
about more, and I will definitely change the copy before I launch.

------
epikur
You might consider adding a "skilled writer" option for non-teachers to apply.
This would allow people like grad students and retired teachers to
participate. Just have an "upload resume" field.

~~~
jjets718
Allowing "skilled writers" is something I want to do soon! If you are a
skilled writer, you can still sign up! I may send you an email asking for a
resume before I verify your account.

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dvdhsu
Bah! I've had this idea for a long time; I just never took the time to build
it.

Anyways, I would love to talk to you about some ideas I think would be
helpful. It doesn't seem like you have any contact information on the site (a
_big problem_ ), nor on your profile. If you want to talk, you can find my
contact information in my profile.

I would definitely suggest adding your contact information on the site first.
That'd be helpful for anybody who wants more information.

------
highace
Do teachers not provide feedback if you go to them with your work (during
their office hours) prior to the hand-in anymore?

~~~
badhairday
They still do and I actually prefer doing this instead of using a service like
Skimling. I try to write for the professor that is grading my paper, some of
them have different styles they prefer. Writing to their style usually ensures
a good grade, especially if you ask them for feedback and adjust your work
accordingly.

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fitztrev
Interesting concept. Just a piece of advice that might improve conversions: I
know you're using Stripe.js but you still should have an SSL cert on a payment
page. And another thing with Stripe.js, don't use name attributes for the
credit card input fields. That way they don't get passed through on the form
submission.

~~~
jjets718
I bought an SSL cert, and the payment should be encrypted over SSL. I'll check
it out later though, and will look at the name attributes on the credit card
field. Thanks so much for checking Skimling out!

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caublestone
I think an idea that could really push this over the top would be, for the
teacher registration allow anyone with a .edu to register, let them identify
their expertise (history, english, poetry etc.). When a student uploads a
paper, the student identifies the category of the paper (history, english,
poetry etc.) and that'll make it easier to match an editor. You could even let
the student see a list of teachers, and select them based on the teachers
profile.

Under this system, an important feature, down the line, is a rating system for
the teachers to help students find quality editors.

Really cool idea that I definitely see scaling to even more complex project
assistance. Maybe you could create a healthy teaching consulting ecosystem?
Good luck!

~~~
jjets718
Thanks for your suggestions! The problem with allowing anyone with a .edu
email address to register is that there are plenty of people who work for
universities that have .edu addresses, but aren't teachers. There is a
matching algorithm that matches students who are taking a certain course to
teachers that teach courses similar to the one they are taking. The rating
system is a very important feature, which I hope to get to work on soon!

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sequoia
Informal poll: is it within a teacher's rights to forbid the use of such a
service on their assignments? You know, "I want to see YOUR work, not an
underemployed English major's work." If I were a teacher and I thought my
wealthier students were turning cash into better essays not thru tutoring
(learning) but simply paying someone to spruce it up, I'd do what I could to
ban the practice. It's not fair to other students and it makes it difficult or
impossible for a teacher to accurately gauge a student's _own_ skills.

~~~
pigbucket
Teachers consider the practice you describe (paying someone to spruce up an
essay) cheating, but it's not clear that that is the kind of service that OP's
site offers. Many teachers also encourage students to get critical feedback on
their essays, and so they should. Many professional and academic writers seek
out the same kind of feedback. I share your desire for the democratization of
online education (that's the point of essayjudge) but there are so many sites
that appeal to the baser instincts of struggling or just lazy students
(selling pre-written or custom written essays) that I think any site that
provides legitimate feedback to students, even if it's for a modest fee,
should be welcomed.

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iNate2000
I like the simplicity of the model. $12 seems a little high for input from
only one reviewer. Perhaps I'm thinking of shorter papers than you are?

~~~
jjets718
The papers can be of any length for the minimum viable product. For the next
iteration, I'd like to adjust the pricing of each essay that is graded based
on the length of each essay. As a teacher though, if you don't grade a paper
that you've been given within a few days, I can resend it to another teacher.

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sb1752
Love the concept. Getting graded early is so important for students. It shows
they really want to know what they are doing right or wrong before they hand
in their assignments. After all, that's what learning is all about right? The
grade itself is not as important as understanding what you can do better. This
might shed some light on grading standards across different teachers as well.

~~~
jjets718
Thank you so much for the positive feedback! I'm going to be very interested
to see the trends as to what teachers look for when grading essays.

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shykes
This looks like a great product, but am I the only one to cringe at such an
abuse of the word "platform"? Last I checked, a platform was a combination of
hardware and software capable of running other software. Examples of actual
platforms include iOS, Java, Windows and the Web.

There's no shame in building an amazing product that isn't a platform!

~~~
jjets718
Thanks for your feedback! I'm going to change the copy tomorrow, and will
incorporate your suggestion into it.

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mukyu
Most universities have free tutor services, including for writing. Also, most
professors are willing to take a look at your work ahead of time and give you
advice.

Given those two options why would a student pay for this service and why would
the grad student work for you instead of their university's program?

------
jjets718
Hi everyone! I'm in school right now and have to go to lunch, so I will not be
able to respond to any additional comments until later. Thanks so much for
checking out Skimling, and if I don't respond to your comment right away, I
will have responses later tonight!

