
Jewish problems (2011) - replicant
http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1556
======
PRJIUS2
Posted last two times[1][2] one of these stories came around, comment
applicable here:

As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I
am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw
away account.

With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not
be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection
bias. Most of them came to the US as refugees who were recognized by the US
State Department as being discriminated against for being Jewish in
USSR/Russia. Secondly they have interest in maintaining the story anti-
seminitism because it validates their narrative and could potentially help
their relatives immigrate to the US.

Additionally many stories of anti-semitism that I heard were something a non-
jew would experience as well but attributed to anti-semitism. As a personal
example, I was at first denied admission to a specialized school in very late
Soviet period. They eventually let me in because my mother found out that I
had the highest score on the entrance exam of any one. Their excuse was that
they had to let the kids who were in the paid summer program at the school
first and now the class was full. A Jewish kid's parents would have been told
they already have too many Jews in the advanced program. Both cases are just
the admissions persons asking for a bribe.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047)
[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5340553](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5340553)

~~~
gist
"attributed to".

Reminds me of when I am in my car at a stop light and a man looks over at me.
I always think "wow if I was a woman or if I was black I would think that that
is the reason they are looking at me".

~~~
hackuser
> I always think "wow if I was a woman or if I was black I would think that
> that is the reason they are looking at me".

This statement imagines what an imaginary person would be thinking, and
implies that it represents the thinking of billions of people.

I wish my subjective imagination was so reliable. Think of all the time I
could save studying facts, improving my analytical skills, and most of all,
learning from and listening to other people who have different perspectives
and experiences than I do. 'I imagine, therefore they are.'

~~~
gist
Why the snark? What I said wasn't politically correct in some way? Use of
stereotypes? Please elaborate.

~~~
hackuser
My reasoning is what I said. But I agree, the snark was inappropriate. Sorry.

------
vkazanov
This is a well-known fact, actually.

My math teacher in Lithuania mentioned that back in his days (50-s) it was
practically impossible for a non-Jewish student to get into any math- or
physics-related faculty: Jewish families had a very strong multi-generational
tradition of both in-school and additional education. He also said he was the
only non-jewish in his group in Moscow State University that year.

So at some point it was decided to, ehm, discriminate jewish - they were
supposed to be a minority in all the main universities/institutes, under 10%,
I think, although this is not a precise number.

Note that I don't advocate anything or anyone, this is just the way it was.

~~~
Udik
Wouldn't that be called "affirmative action" in the US?

~~~
fennecfoxen
The differences:

In the US, they'd ask everyone the same questions, but have different
standards for the results. The practice would not be secret, and so there
would not be subterfuge of this scope (the plausible-deniability angle is
gone). Finally, the practice would be used to boost the effective scores of
the select less-qualified candidates, instead of damaging the scores of select
more-qualified candidates. (This is not strictly a difference of terminology:
in a competitive assessment affirmative action on a less-successful candidate
would consistently crowd out candidates from the bottom end of the
'successful' range, whereas the Jewish questions would sabotage everyone who
got them, including those who would otherwise be at the top of the field).

~~~
Udik
True, it's important, if ever a mechanism like this is applied, that it is
made official and mandated by law. I don't agree that the system described
works in a substantially different way from affirmative action, though, as you
can consider the current admission tests to already include the "Jewish
problems", for a number of points equivalent to the "score boosting" applied
to the other candidates.

Most importantly, if things were like described by the GP, the intended effect
is not to discriminate against an ethnic group, but balance its overwhelming
predominance in a particular field. Which is precisely the objective of
affirmative action.

~~~
_yosefk
How is "discriminating against a group" different from "balancing its
overwhelming predominance in a particular field"? The dictionary definition of
"discrimination" says there's no difference. Is the definition that says there
is a difference some sort of a moral standard? What are the thresholds of that
standard - at what point group members outdoing others warrants affirmative
action and by how much the numbers of those members should be dwindled by
affirmative action? Which groups should be punished by affirmative action -
ethnic and gender, or is religion a legitimate target, what about height,
family history, a preference to wear clothes of a certain color - whom is it
OK to count and then hold to a higher standard to balance their overwhelming
predominance?

Also - what cost should society pay in lost output due to the average ability
of people allowed to enter certain occupations having been lowered by
affirmative action (as it has to be if less capable candidates are admitted
instead of more capable)?

Perhaps most interestingly - how much cost should a group supposedly "helped"
by affirmative action pay for the dubious favor in (A) people being unable to
successfully function at institutions who admitted them, not because of their
abilities, but due to affirmative action and (B) perfectly capable people of
the "helped" group being stigmatized because "everyone knows they only got to
where they were due to affirmative action, and not due to their ability?"

(I guess you might notice that I'm not a huge fan of affirmative action, but
if we could at least agree that there's no reasonable way to distinguish
between "affirmative action" and "discrimination", that would be in itself
awesome, even if we disagree about the merit of, well, that one thing with two
names...)

~~~
fennecfoxen
> How is "discriminating against a group" different from "balancing its
> overwhelming predominance in a particular field"?

Since you ask, I'll repeat myself. Suppose you have lots of people applying
for 100 slots in the university. Affirmative action at a US university
designed to give you a quota of, say, 10% minorities could, in the worst case,
crowd out qualified persons #91-100. "Jewish questions" deployed against
highly qualified Jews in a Jewish-dominated field in Lithuania could have
easily excluded most qualified persons in the range #1-100.

I really don't like affirmative action either, but it differs substantially in
intent, technique, and impact. Considering them morally equivalent slights
against the ideals of fairness and merit is a very narrow, black-and-white
world view - and without abandoning the ideal of justice, I think it's
important to see that there are many shades grays in this world, and some are
much much darker than others.

~~~
matt-attack
I'm sure your argument makes #95 feel much better.

~~~
to3m
How would they know they were #95?

It's not clear why failed applicants would automatically leap to the theory
that they didn't get in because of affirmative action, rather than just
assuming they weren't good enough. Competition for good academic institutions
is generally stiff enough that this is the most likely reason anyway.

~~~
13thLetter
"It's not clear why failed applicants would automatically leap to the theory
that they didn't get in because of affirmative action, rather than just
assuming they weren't good enough."

Why wouldn't they? People generally look for an explanation of bad events that
doesn't put the blame on themselves. Even better, if it defines a specific
culprit and paints them as a villain. "I didn't get into X because they
discriminated against me, those racist bastards" is therefore a very appealing
narrative.

------
tacon
In the early 1900s, Harvard was on track to be a Jewish dominated university,
and they made the (then common) decision to limit Jewish enrollment.[1] In
reading that article, I learned that even Richard Feynman was affected by
Columbia's quota, and ended up at MIT instead. (Go MIT!) Non-meritocratic
quotas exist to this day at all elite US universities, with one exception:
Caltech.[2]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota)

[2]
[http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2010/12/why_caltech_is_in_a_...](http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2010/12/why_caltech_is_in_a_class_by_i/)

~~~
Chinjut
I was under the impression UC Berkeley was similar to Caltech in this regard?

~~~
WildUtah
It is supposed to be, but the administration organized a Massive Resistance
campaign against the California Civil Rights Initiative. [0] Through mass
'holistic' review of individual applications for racial background, the
University of California follows the same racial quota admission system that
nearly all elite American universities do.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_resistance)

~~~
Chinjut
Not sure what this is in reference to, but as you can see at
[http://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-
data](http://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data), UC Berkeley's
freshman enrollment in fall 2015 was about 43% Asian (and, for comparison, 24%
white), which does not indicate strong enforcement of racial caps in the
manner suggested by tacon.

The analogous numbers for CalTech are 45% Asian and 27% white; see
[https://www.registrar.caltech.edu/academics/enrollment](https://www.registrar.caltech.edu/academics/enrollment).

[I take no position in this post on whether the high representation of Asians,
low representation of other American racial minorities, and decisions
resulting in these outcomes are good or bad things (or deserve the label
"meritocratic", or so on). I am simply noting that UC Berkeley seems similar
to CalTech in all these regards.]

------
jasode
A similar story[1] was told by the mathematician Edward Frenkel. He was a Jew
in Russia and took an exam with "hard" math problems designed to prevent his
admission into Moscow State University. It's possible the problems shown in
the paper are the ones Frenkel saw since he was a teenager during that time
period. (The Cornell paper does not specifically mention Frenkel.)

[1][http://www.amazon.com/Love-Math-Heart-Hidden-
Reality/dp/0465...](http://www.amazon.com/Love-Math-Heart-Hidden-
Reality/dp/0465064957)

------
golergka
Having graduated math-oriented Moscow high school that, on one hand, had a lot
of graduates go to the math department (roughly translated as MechMath) of MSU
(usually, most of the math class alumni goes there), and on the other, had
untypical amount of jewish students, these rings so close to home. Hell, I
think they actually gave us most part of these problems in math lessons.

Edit: another curious source

> Mikhail Brin decided to study mathematics instead, and was offered a place
> although the entry exams for Jews were sat separately, in rooms that were
> notoriously known as "the gas chambers."

[http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2.209/google-co-founder-my-
fam...](http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2.209/google-co-founder-my-family-left-
russia-because-of-anti-semitism-1.246045)

------
jkot
US had something similar, Isaac Asimov started writing sci-fi, after he was
not accepted to medical university.

~~~
Kliment
I thought he was a biochemist and taught at a med school. Wikipedia says he
started writing scifi at 11, and I doubt even he was eligible for med school
at that age.

~~~
madcaptenor
Wikipedia says that he applied to med school, was rejected, went to grad
school in chemistry at Columbia (partially before and partially after World
War II), and then after getting his PhD he taught at the Boston University
School of Medicine. So he taught at a med school without attending a med
school.

------
guelo
Jews, and many other minority groups, form tight communities were they look
out for each other help each other out. So Jewish businesses and organizations
tend to discriminate in hiring, recommendations, etc. Happens all the time,
very overtly. Since at this point Jewish organizations and businesses in the
US are long established and powerful in many areas, this anti-gentile
discrimination is problematic to society at large. But it's a type of
discrimination that is rarely mentioned and complained about.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Evidence? Citations? (other than stormfront or other nazi or islamist
websites)

~~~
kurthr
I shouldn't even respond to this, because it can only cause problems, but
really... Hollywood? NY Diamond trade? I don't really have a problem with them
(not being in those industries), but that someone in the US could be unaware
is bizarre.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
So, the Jews control Hollywood? That canard's been around for a while. What's
bizarre is that you didn't include money lending.

------
jjoe
While we're discussing this subject, and hoping to shine a bright light away
from all the negativity, the solidarity of the Jewish people is amazing and
unequalled! Jews seem to show great compassion and provide unconditional help
for their own.

There's wisdom to be gleaned from this I'm sure...

------
hackuser
A bit preachy, sorry: Everyone frowns on discrimination by others, people in
different times and/or places, but much more important than criticizing others
is to do the right thing ourselves. We need to look in the mirror (myself
included!).

To choose a prominent example, open discrimination against people who believe
in Islam is socially acceptable in much of Western society. How stupid can we
be? We're blatently repeating the exact same mistakes as before, the exact
thing we frown upon. Some will say, 'but this time is different; we have a
valid reason' \- which of course is exactly what people said all those
previous times, it's just a justification for acting out on fear (and it's
just dumb reasoning). The old fears and rationalizations look absurd to us now
but seemed just as real at the time as our current fears. Ours will look just
as absurd in the future.

Why can't we just apply the simple, blanket rule? Don't discriminate;
prejudice is cruel, unjust and unfair, and it results in very bad things. It
provides no real benefits. It always ends up on the wrong side of history; the
accomplishments and heroes we honor are never hate and the hateful, but those
that stood up against them. When our descendents look back at us, which side
will we be on?

~~~
wobbleblob
> We're blatently repeating the exact same mistakes as before, the exact thing
> we frown upon.

I find it enlightening. Why did people let the nazis take the jews away? Why
did people support slavery, even turn escaped slaves in, for money? Why did
they allow lynchings to happen?

Well, now we know. Now we understand. Maybe we can view our ancestors in a
different light now.

------
bb101
Similar events happened in London in the mid-19th century. University College
London (UCL), now one of the best colleges in the University of London, was
founded to allow students entry through non-religious means. Consequently, it
was the first college in the university to allow equal entry to both Jews and
women.

~~~
david-given
This is why British fee-paying schools are called 'public schools', by the way
--- they're open to any member of the public who can pay, rather than being
open to only a certain subset of the population. Plus public schools were
under public management (a board of governors).

I believe there still are some private schools (UK sense) in the UK, but I
can't find any references.

~~~
jzwinck
Most any home school is a private school using that definition.

------
hiq
Without the alternative easier exams to compare with and the grading scheme
that were used, these problems do not mean much regarding the discrimination
that took place. It is quite common to give good grades even when the
exercises have not been solved completely, but interesting thoughts and ideas
have been exposed, especially in mathematics.

Off topic, but regarding problem 2, a math professor once told me of a PhD
student who started studying this kind of functions. He spent some time to
discover their many interesting properties, until the professor made him
understand why these functions were so regular, and that he had actually
wasted his time. Funny to see this again.

------
misiti3780
If you read the book Perfect Rigor, about Grigori Perelman (solved the
Poincare Conjecture - won the fields metal, but would not accept the 1MM
dollar prize on principle) they tell multiple tails of anti-semitism in the
Russian math departments at the time. According to the book, Perelman was
basically really lucky to be born when he was and where he was, and that is
really the only reason he was given a chance to get the education he got. The
world is obviously a better place for guys like this.

------
qrian
I found a site with some more background on this subject
[http://www.tanyakhovanova.com/coffins.html](http://www.tanyakhovanova.com/coffins.html)

------
RivieraKid
I wonder why are Askhenazi Jews apparently more intelligent on average...
seems that genetics is the main factor, not culture, but I can imagine
research in this area is discouraged and controversial.

~~~
WildUtah
Research is discouraged, but not impossible.

"Natural history of Ashkenazi Intelligence" by Harpending and Cochran is a
good start.
[http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbi...](http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf)

(Hint: It's all genetic.)

~~~
golergka
Interesting read, but I have some problems with it.

> Another theory suggests that there was selective breeding for Talmudic
> scholarship. This seems unlikely to have been an important selective factor,
> since there weren’t very many professional rabbis, certainly less than one
> percent of the population.

Although there are very few rabbis, majority of ultra-orthodox men spend most
part of their time in rabbinic studies until they're very deep into adult
life, and their level of success in that field is directly converted into
their social status. (Which also means that they don't work and depend on
their wives (who are also expected to care about the house and have a lot of
children) as well as welfare from state and charities to survive).

~~~
yissachar
This is a relatively recent development and certainly wasn't true for most of
Ashkenazi history.

------
drostie
Some answers:

    
    
        1. Solve for positive x: 
            x (8 sqrt(1 - x) + sqrt(1 + x)) <= 11 sqrt(1 + x) - 16 sqrt(1 - x)
    

The upper bound is clearly x=1 because the square roots cease to exist for x >
1 and and substituting in x = 1 - epsilon^2 gives to first order (8 e + 1) <=
(11 - 16 e) which works because 8 <= 11. Does this thing have a root in [0,
1]?

The inverse of y = sqrt(1 + x)/sqrt(1 - x) is with some work x = (y^2 -
1)/(y^2 + 1) so when we divide through by sqrt(1-x) which we know now to be
positive, and replace the above, we find:

    
    
        (y^2 - 1)/(y^2 + 1) * (8 + y) = 11 y - 16
    

Expanding out we're looking for a root of

    
    
        -10 y^3 + 24*y^2 - 12 y + 8 = 0
    

Dividing by -2 to normalize somewhat:

    
    
        5 y^3 - 12 y^2 + 6 y - 4 = 0
    

At this point I almost gave up (since it's a cubic and I had no guarantee that
x was rational) but got lucky, I started trying positive integers to see where
this transitions from negative (y=0) to positive (5y^3) and accidentally found
that y=2 solves the equation. Sending it back through I find 3/5, so assuming
that it doesn't double back somewhere in the interval [3/5, 1] that's the
interval that we're looking for. Phew!

    
    
        2. Find all functions F(x) : R -> R having the propery that for any x1 and x2, 
           F(x1) - F(x2) <= (x1 - x2)^2.
    

Yeah, if you're just entering a university you're probably not going to get
this one. Rewriting x1 as x + dx, x2 as x, then this says F(x + dx) - F(x) <=
dx^2. With some limits and the Squeeze theorem, this restricts the functions
to be differentiable with derivative zero, so they are constant functions. By
inspection that is not just necessary but also sufficient.

    
    
        3. Given a triangle ABC construct with a straightedge and compass a point K on 
           AB and a point M on BC such that AK = KM = MC.
    

This seems in general impossible except for some very specific triangles -- is
that true? For example if |AB| = 2 and |BC| = 1, it seems that the only point
on AB which could possibly be a candidate for K is the midpoint, with M being
B. But the only way that the distance from K to M is the same is if BCK is an
equilateral triangle, which requires furthermore that the angle BAC is 60
degrees, no?

    
    
        4. Solve 2 cubert(2y - 1) = y^3 + 1 for real y.
    

So y = 1 is an obvious solution. Cubing both sides we get

    
    
        y^9 + 3y^6 + 3y^3 - 16 y + 9 = 0
    

Then doing polynomial division by y-1 I get

    
    
        y^8 + y^7 + y^6 + 4 y^5 + 4 y^4 + 4 y^3 + 7 y^2 + 7 y - 9.
    

At this point I got stuck and turned to automated tools, which say that this
is factorizable as:

    
    
        (y^2 + y - 1)(y^6 + 2 y^4 + 2 y^3 + 4 y^2 + 2 y + 9)
    

Graphing the right hand side it seems to be consistently positive, so that
just leaves the left hand side, which is -1/2 +/\- sqrt(5)/2\. That's pretty
difficult.

------
gcb0
were those offered only to undesired applicants or to everyone and somehow
only the desired people knew how to solve?

~~~
replicant
Only to the undesirables students. Quoting the paper, "The Mathematics
Department of Moscow State University, the most prestigious mathematics school
in Russia, was at that time actively trying to keep Jewish students (and other
'undesirables') from enrolling in the department. One of the methods they used
for doing this was to give the unwanted students a different set of problems
on their oral exam."

~~~
kelukelugames
Which groups are the 'undesirables'?

~~~
pja
The Jewish students were regarded as the undesirables and given the 'coffin'
problems in order to eliminate them - read the links up-thread.

~~~
kelukelugames
Yes, thank you. I am curious if there were other groups or it's only limited
to Jewish students.

