

PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs - nathanpc
http://www.indiegogo.com/pengpod

======
CJefferson
I don't want this to just sound like "this is a terrible idea", but I'm
interested -- why not just make a good linux distribution for something like
the Nexus 10? I already want to get one of those, and would be happy to dual-
boot traditional linux, or even just have access to true linux under the
android hub.

Unless there is some serious restriction, it seems easier to get software
right, than hardware + software.

~~~
vidarh
Interestingly, their pictures are of existing Allwinner based Android products
that are available for purchase now from any number of sources, and that there
are plenty of documentation on getting Linux running for.

So making a good Linux distribution seems to be what this project is for. It's
very unclear what they're actually offering - it seems that any donations will
go towards work on a very limited set of missing functionality for existing
Linux ports for these devices.

Personally I found the page very misleading.

EDIT: Here's details on Linux on the MiniPC they show:

<https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/2/topics/1>

And here's details on Linux on one of the LY-F1 tablet models they show
pictures of:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyVarHgHMWg>

~~~
subsystem
Seems fairly close to a scam to me.

"By using crowd funding to consolidate the orders we will be able to achieve
the prices listed in the rewards and upgrades to the hardware become
possible."

Then why is the PengStick/Mini MK802 twice the price of Amazon?

~~~
vidarh
If they're actually planning on specific improvements of the Linux distro, I
might be willing to pay extra for it... But, yeah, it does seem like they're
at the very least not doing anything at all to prevent confusion over what
this is about.

~~~
drachensun
Things move fast in China, when we started planning this project the cost was
based on a bulk order. In the 6 weeks or so since the retail prices have come
much closer the wholesale price. This is typical of Chinese goods once they
are available long enough.

So the order quantity is not as important now but we still need the bulk to
provide enough funds for the software work.

~~~
vidarh
You're addressing the wrong issue: The price is not the problem. The extremely
misleading page is.

And with regard to price: I bought one of the tablets you list from Amazon in
the UK for less than your stated price many months ago. A single one, via a UK
reseller.

------
esolyt
I have to disagree with some points made here.

> free of Google and Android's restrictions

Well, we have an OS that is completely open source. An SDK that can be used on
any platform and with any IDE without paying anything. Freedom to write and
distribute applications to any device without anyone's approval.

> Hey, it's Linux right? It'll be open, run all the programs I'm familiar with
> and let me hack around and have some fun right?

Linux is a kernel. No, it won't run the programs made for desktop operating
systems just because they use the same kernel, which are likely to offer poor
user experience on a tablet anyway.

~~~
vidarh
Yes, it _will_ run the programs made for desktop operating systems, as long as
they're recompiled for ARM:

This is an example of Ubuntu running on the LY-F1 (which is incidentally one
of the tablets these guys show pictures of, so it's not very clear what
they're actually planning on _doing_ for this money other than passing orders
on to distributors and chucking in suitable Ubuntu image):

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyVarHgHMWg>

The poor user experience part I agree with, though.

------
adventureloop
This is a strange reveral of the gnu/linux debate. The linux kernel is not the
important component, the windowing system is.

I dont want to run X applications on a tablet, I have tried that before with
the n700. I want a fully finger friendly user interface, the one that comes
with android works pretty well.

I can understand the appeal of a community owned FOSS user interface, but why
attach the linux tag as a selling point.

~~~
vidarh
Because some people would like to be able to attach a keyboard and use it as a
makeshift netbook now and again.

And because there's a lot of work ongoing to make X apps "finger friendly".
E.g. Ubuntu 13.04 has making Ubuntu work better on tablets as a major goal.

And these devices are not just tablets. The MiniPC (which is just a MK802 or
MK803) has HDMI out and full HD.

------
mganon
IIRC the A10 specs are closed (and at a time I've been involved with a project
including a A10, I've even been reported the A10 designers did not even have
written one...), so this might not be the best SoC to start with, especially
to target Linux geeks, promising them openness.

Also $50k of funding seems quite light for this project.

I hope anyway that it succeeds, because it would still be an interesting
device.

~~~
sciurus
Linux already runs fairly well on the A10's, see <http://linux-
sunxi.org/Main_Page> for more information.

------
mefistofele
Really disappointing screen resolution on all of these. Haven't they been
paying attention to what's been going on in tablets - at least, in the tablets
that people are actually buying?

The tablet form factor is, at its base, a minimal container for a screen. If
the screen isn't good, then there goes the whole thing no matter how many
other goodies you throw in. Low screen resolution means not good screen.

What's more frustrating is that I share the goals of this device. I want a
linux tablet. That is, I want a tablet that will integrate into the workflow I
have on my other computing devices, which are all linux.

I don't have very complex requirements for that; I don't need appliKations or
Gancy Gesktop Genvironments. I just want a nice high res screen that talks to
a bluetooth keyboard when I want, run a standards-compliant web browser, a
bunch of tiled terminals, and most importantly Emacs. Android doesn't fit the
bill. I can only see appreciating the way Android runs emacs if I was a
devoted Buddhist and embraced frequent segfaults as a lesson in patience and
discipline.

~~~
vidarh
They're not making the hardware. The units they list are run of the mill
lowest-end Android tablets you can pick up on Amazon (or directly from China
via Aliexpress etc.) that more standard Linux setups have already been ported
to.

EDIT: At least that's what the pictures are of. I have that keyboard case, and
at least one of those tablets, already.

------
fafner
What about the Vivaldi: <http://makeplaylive.com/> It's a "True" Linux Tablet.
Running on Mer and KDE.

~~~
vidarh
The indicated 200 euro for the Vivaldi is nearly twice that of Android tablets
with the same specs and a range of Linux ports available...

~~~
tluyben2
Do you have links for those?

~~~
vidarh
I'm in the UK. 200 euro is about 160 GBP at the moment. Here's a selection of
~80GBP comparable tablets:

At least this one is an A10 based one (it's one of the many incarnations of
LY-F1 tablets): [http://www.amazon.co.uk/M009S-Capacitive-Android-SANDWICH-
Re...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/M009S-Capacitive-Android-SANDWICH-
Responsive/dp/B008MKBWF2/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&qid=1353335829&sr=8-34)

Another LY-F1 variation (A10): [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Superslim-Multi-touch-
Capacitive-all...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Superslim-Multi-touch-Capacitive-
allwinner-Compatible/dp/B0077HAS0G/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&qid=1353335784&sr=8-28)

And another: [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fineslate-MULTITOUCH-Capacitive-
Ice-...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fineslate-MULTITOUCH-Capacitive-Ice-cream-
Processor/dp/B007L9YZP4/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&qid=1353335784&sr=8-30)

Dual core Rockchip, Jellybean: [http://www.amazon.co.uk/A1CS-RAPID5%C2%AE-
DUAL-CORE-1-4-TABL...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/A1CS-RAPID5%C2%AE-DUAL-
CORE-1-4-TABLET/dp/B009ON0NF6/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1353335784&sr=8-27)

[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-StarPAD-Processor-
performa...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-StarPAD-Processor-performance-
Capacitive/dp/B0064CVXS6/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1353335682&sr=8-11)

[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Android-7SE-Capacitive-
touchscreen-F...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Android-7SE-Capacitive-touchscreen-
Fantastic/dp/B008PRRNO6/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1353335784&sr=8-21)

There are cheaper ones around too, but ~80 is the cheapest I'd consider in
terms of build quality (unless for a child - one of the things you see on a
lot of the cheaper tablets is that instead of a glass edge to edge face plate,
there's a plastic shell that protrudes out from the screen, and
perspex/plastic instead of glass covering the screem, and from look and feel
those tablets seem a lot more likely to withstand being dropped - none of
these cheap tablets use Gorilla glass as far as I know, after all)

------
quarterto

      Add $5 to have Linux installed on the on board flash.
    

Wait, what? It doesn't even ship with an OS?

~~~
rjbond3rd
Android is on the flash by default, Linux on the SD card. So you're getting
two OS's. The $5 is to overwrite the flash with Linux.

~~~
quarterto
Linux on the SD is an $8 extra.

~~~
rjbond3rd
Ah, thank you. That is indeed confusing then but I'm leaning toward supporting
it.

