
Apple removes game after Chinese company cloned, trademarked, requested takedown - mastazi
https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/bs6n3l/apple_removed_my_game_from_the_app_store_because/
======
mytherin
There is a lot of misinformation about the situation here, mainly because of
the misleading title. The game created by the Chinese company is not a clone
of the game created by Playsaurus.

Here is the game created by Playsaurus:
[http://www.clickerheroes2.com](http://www.clickerheroes2.com)

Here is the game created by the Chinese company:
[http://m.7k7k.com/android/11525.html](http://m.7k7k.com/android/11525.html)

The games look nothing alike. The dispute is about the title of the game
"Clicker Heroes", specifically the Chinese translation of this title "点击英雄". A
Chinese company created a game with this (rather generic) name and filed a
trademark for the name.

The company was granted the trademark because they were first to file for the
trademark and China trademark law works on a first-to-file basis. The same law
applies in many countries (including countries in the EU). Playsaurus made a
mistake not filing for the trademark in China before and was punished for that
mistake.

The actual controversy here has nothing to do with Chinese law or the Chinese
company. The controversy is that Apple took down the game in all regions
despite them only violating the trademark in China.

~~~
stordoff
It may not be a clone of Clicker Heroes, but it does appear to be extremely
close (visually) to Tap Titans:

点击英雄:
[http://n.7k7kimg.cn/m00/6f/37/01b6d018a2f7485ea9de55f4b02bf2...](http://n.7k7kimg.cn/m00/6f/37/01b6d018a2f7485ea9de55f4b02bf251.jpg)

Tap Titans: [https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BfZpbHHc_htTbIla-
wzdj1BFtS...](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BfZpbHHc_htTbIla-
wzdj1BFtSDZ_h65EykahBfFwEhW22sSGVjV8SB8EqSNRK2SAxk=w1536-h722-rw)

~~~
Freak_NL
The Chinese link leads to a 403 Forbidden message.

~~~
RIMR
Depends on your ISP it seems - here's a mirror:
[https://imgur.com/kW2GnJH](https://imgur.com/kW2GnJH)

------
phren0logy
The game in question is Clicker Heroes (a pretty popular idle/incremental
game), and the post is by the CEO of Playsaurus.

From the thread:

> It looks like we can't challenge it. After reading the comments and doing a
> bit more research, it appears that China's trademark/IP laws are completely
> different from any Western countries, and Apple just has to do what they
> say.

>It sucks but that's how it is. If you make a game, unless you have ridiculous
resources to spend on registering properly in China in advance, you just have
to accept China to be a loss. Someone there will steal it.

~~~
Creationer
You need to read the details more carefully. Playsaurus messed up:

1\. They launched in China without registering a trademark

2\. A competitor registered the trademark after 3 months of their launch

3\. They continued to sell for _4 years_ under a name trademarked by another
company, making $73,000+ yearly from that one country

Now, they complain about it on Reddit, even though China is a 'First to File'
company.

The fault lies entirely with Playsaurus, nothing illegal occurred here.

[https://www.trademarknow.com/blog/first-to-file-versus-
first...](https://www.trademarknow.com/blog/first-to-file-versus-first-to-use)

This situation could have occurred in many other countries - the difference is
probably that the competitor is content to just sell in China, under a Chinese
name, whereas products sold anywhere else would need to use the English name.

Edit: Apple taking down the game worldwide is unusual though.

~~~
lambdasquirrel
A Google search seems to reveal that they were targeted by a patent troll in
2018 as well. Seems this company can’t get any slack from life.

I would strongly hesitate to blaming the victim. You can easily make the case
that they had poor business ops. But this shouldn’t have happened to them.

And all the same, I have a hard time empathizing with the anti-China rhetoric.
Zynga’s Pincus has been quoted by multiple sources as saying along the lines
of: “copy them until you get their results.” Gaming is pretty brutal in that
regard, but no one complained when Samsung or LG copied Apple’s designs.
There’s _a lot_ of selective bias and double standards here.

Although I could fault China’s tech industry for other things, it’s really
hard to stand up for the US in the broader context given the hypocrisy with
which we apply our ideals.

~~~
rangerpolitic
> no one complained when Samsung or LG copied Apple’s designs

Apple and Samsung were locked in a legal battle over this very issue and in
several countries. It was massive news at the time (circa 2011-2012) and even
went to the US Supreme Court.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electron...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co).

And here is a sample of some of the discussion in the tech community.

[https://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/04/18/2053241/apple-
sues...](https://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/04/18/2053241/apple-sues-samsung-
over-galaxy-phones-and-tablets)

There were a lot of people angry at Apple (and some at Samsung). A common
refrain at the time was "There are only so many ways you can design a
rectangle."

~~~
thaumasiotes
I tend to see "there were a lot of people angry at Apple" and "there are only
so many ways you can design a rectangle" as supporting the idea that no one
complained when Samsung or LG copied Apple's designs.

~~~
rangerpolitic
From the linked thread:
[https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2089310&cid=35860...](https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2089310&cid=35860610)

> I find things about both platforms that are unique and that I prefer to the
> other. However, when you look at what Samsung did with their UI... It's
> pretty pathetic to be honest. They literally copied entire app UIs wholesale
> (even icons).

------
denverkarma
This is the kind of stuff that makes me feel the trade conflict between the US
and China is overdue. The world’s two biggest economies operating on such a
different standards of IP was bound to lead to conflict eventually.

~~~
xwdv
It is very overdue and close to reaching a flashpoint. The markets have been
getting slammed recently over trade war rumbles. Not sure how it will all end,
but China really needs to fall in line with the RoW and adopt sane standards
for intellectual property. This cannot go on.

~~~
lone_haxx0r
Do you really think the rest of the world has "sane standards for intellectual
property"?

~~~
markdown
> "sane standards for intellectual property"

You mean US standards for intellectual property... which are really Disney
standards for intellectual property.

I'm not a US citizen and think that "US standards for intellectual property"
are absolutely disgusting. A US company with no connection whatsoever to my
country or its indigenous people has trademarked our word for
hello/greetings/life/health.

Life plus 70yrs for copyright? WTF?

How about this for "sane standards of intellectual property":
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19997848](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19997848)

~~~
hhjjkkll
> A US company with no connection whatsoever to my country or its indigenous
> people has trademarked our word for hello/greetings/life/health.

What's the word? Curious.

~~~
brandonjm
Not parent commenter but they may mean this: Bula (Fijian greeting) [1] The
same article also mentions Aloha being trademarked followed by cease and
desists being sent restaurants in Hawaii using the word.

[1] [https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-
news/366621/bula...](https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-
news/366621/bula-trademarked-by-us-businessman)

~~~
markdown
That's a bingo!

[https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-
news/367452/fiji...](https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-
news/367452/fiji-government-to-fight-trademarking-of-bula)

------
makecheck
So this indicates a few troubling things:

1\. It is way easier to steal something and resell it convincingly, than it is
to prove original ownership convincingly. This tilts the market in favor of
thieves, as they need to do none of the investment and still reap maybe half
or more of the total potential income.

2\. Apple pulling something from a store should affect only a fraction of a
normal market; instead, it affects literally everyone.

3\. Gatekeepers such as Apple win regardless of _who_ sells an app. If a
developer complains and Apple has millions of alternative developers/apps, why
would they even listen? The motivation is simply nonexistent.

These problems would all be nullified by abolishing the concept of a single
gatekeeper store.

If you can easily steal something but there is no easy place to publish it to
get stolen revenue from “nearly everyone”, the value of the theft is reduced.
(Imagine if you had to find a way to propagate your stolen app to 100 stores.
Would it be worth it?)

If you can convince one storefront to accept your stolen app as legitimate but
you still have to convince a bunch of other stores, the value of the theft is
again reduced.

If each store has a relatively smaller chunk of the total market, none of them
would want to become known as _that store where crappy apps make it into the
list_ so they would be more motivated to curate a decent catalog.

~~~
comex
> If you can easily steal something but there is no easy place to publish it
> to get stolen revenue from “nearly everyone”, the value of the theft is
> reduced. (Imagine if you had to find a way to propagate your stolen app to
> 100 stores. Would it be worth it?)

The same obstacle would also apply to all legitimate app developers…

------
ikeboy
I've heard multiple horror stories of this happening with physical product
brands.

Someone buys their products from a factory in China, sells on e.g. Amazon US
with their own brand, trademarked and everything. Then some Chinese entity
trademarks it in China. The clincher is that since they have a Chinese
trademark, they can put an export block on anything bearing that trademark,
and so the US buyer can't ship their goods out of China anymore.

Because of this, people are being advised to register in China even if they
never plan to sell anything there.

~~~
whenchamenia
Or produce locally where possible to avoid that altogether. The risk is higher
than then higher production costs in many cases. Its not nationalist drivel to
support your own area when it is feasible.

~~~
neuronic
Local means worse. The West has terrible production infrastructure when
compared to places like Shenzen. It's a serious disadvantage on many fronts.

~~~
ebog
That's not entirely true. The US is good at capital intensive or high skilled
manufacturing like most other countries aren't. That's why it's viable for a
lot of car companies to open plants in the US. It's just that most of the
supply chain requires more labor and less capital, which the US economy is not
suited towards.

------
RussianCow
Wait, I'm confused. Why did Apple take the game down worldwide instead of only
in China? They only "violated" Chinese copyright law, but they're punished for
it globally?

~~~
bdowling
My guess: (1) It's probably a violation of Apple's terms of service to
distribute an app that infringes another's trademark and (2) the app probably
still displays the infringing mark "点击英雄" somewhere, for example if a user
sets the phone language to Chinese.

~~~
OJFord
Trademark jurisdiction is geographic, not linguistic.

~~~
bdowling
Jurisdiction limits where a lawsuit can be filed. It does not limit what Apple
can put in its terms of service for the App Store.

------
dahfizz
To everyone who has an iPhone: not only can Apple decide what you can and
can't run on your device, but any random Chinese company now also gets to
decide what software you get to run on the device you dramatically overpaid
for to "own".

~~~
noncoml
What’s the alternative you propose?

~~~
dahfizz
At least on Android you can install and run any software you want. Google
provides an app store but it does not lock you in like apple does.

~~~
neuronic
I take long-term security updates over running Clicker Heroes and an adtech
OS.

~~~
loup-vaillant
Valuing security over freedom, huh? Remimds me of a quote about deserving
neither… (Besides, I have a Nexus 5 from six years ago, the updates are still
coming…)

Okay, Google's privacy's suck. I'm definitely unhappy about it. But let's not
forget Apple's lock down sucks just as hard. I'd even go as far as saying that
this exclusive store thing should be forbidden. People should have root rights
over their phone, and Apple should be forbidden to prevent them. Instead,
people can get in legal trouble from sharing information about jailbreaking.

~~~
neuronic
> Valuing security over freedom

If I do banking on my mobile device, then yes, I value security. I also value
security, when the device contains a non-negligible amount of personal
information that tends to be valuable in certain scenarios.

It's not some ephemeral boogeyman threat management you seem to make it out to
be. For me, this IS freedom (from Google's invasive practices and questionable
business decisions). I choose Apple because due to their business model they
at least have far less motivation to sell my data to the Chinese or other
entities. Of course we cannot know the true behind-the-scenes.

> Apple's lock down sucks just as hard

Does it for the vast majority of users who don't need to ssh into their phone
for (at best) tinkering reasons? How many people are seriously feeling the
negative impact here? I'd argue that the majority of non-tech-savvy users are
better of this way.

Even as a developer, I am not missing anything in the App Store. Questionable
decisions by Apple have so far not collided with my interests but that is too
selfish of an argument to make, I suppose. Although I do assume that it holds
true for a very high percentage of users. I am open for opposing points.

~~~
loup-vaillant
> _Does it for the vast majority of users who don 't need to ssh into their
> phone for (at best) tinkering reasons?_

That's a hard question. Probably, I'd guess. See, what happens with tinkerers
has influence over the other users. Stuff happens in an open platform that
just doesn't, in a closed one. Though the biggest effects tend to be seen 10
years down the line, when tinkerers turn professionals (or not, if they didn't
get to tinker at all).

> _I 'd argue that the majority of non-tech-savvy users are better of this
> way._

Non-tech-savvyness ought to be wiped off the surface of this planet. For the
tech illiterate's own sake. Yes, it means less time to do some other stuff. No
that other stuff is not more important. Even when you are busy saving lives,
tech is too pervasive to ignore. I'm not asking for much. If people just
stopped treating their computers like sentient beings that should be pleased
with voodoo magic, if they just understand that bugs come from _human_ errors
somewhere up the production chain, that viruses can only go in through such
errors (or the user themselves), that would be a huge step forward.

I know the market doesn't work that way. It's more efficient at capturing
attention than it is at educating people (which is probably why the best
school systems tend to be public). If the people were properly educated, many
shady practices would simply not have flown. Malware would be much less of a
problem.

~~~
neuronic
> Non-tech-savvyness ought to be wiped off the surface of this planet.

Oh I agree, although I wouldn't formulate it this way. An ecosystem like
Apple's still has a place in an ideal tech-savvy world because it takes away a
lot of micromanagement here and there.

Back in my Android days I constantly had to micromanage and adjust everything
to work the way I want it to. Widgets, changing Google app landscape, flashing
some custom Cyanogenmod because the manufacturers Frankenstein Android flavor
was a hot mess, reign in unwanted background processes, etc etc. Much has
gotten a lot better since then on Android but I made the switch before that.

On Apple's system I get to decide less but I also get to worry less as long as
I am ok with their decisions. It just feels convenient and barely anything
ever gets in my way. I enjoy the mostly seamless integration of iOS and macOS.

If I wouldn't be ok then I thankfully have the OPTION to go back to Android.
That's what we should be happy about, right? You can use Google products, I
can use Apple products. And if we discover some issue with our choices we can
always change them.

> If the people were properly educated

I often feel like many people have no interest in being educated and that is
what feels truly frustrating. Anecdotally, I have setup Netflix for relatives
and they had zero interest in how it was done. Actively rejected my attempts
to show them the setup steps - they just want to be able to press the Netflix
button on the remote and have it play something.

Since then, I had to fix simple login issues once or twice again because that
step is too techy/nerdy/boring. Of course passwords were never
remembered/noted/securely stored...

------
sjwright
They’ve set the precedent that a Chinese trademark has worldwide effect. This
move could come back to bite Apple if a Chinese company ever does the same
thing to them directly.

~~~
EdwardDiego
Which wouldn't be upheld by any Paris Convention state. (And China agreed to
the Paris Convention in 1984).

But yeah, international filing is a lot easier now, China is a member of the
Madrid System, so it's relatively streamlined.

~~~
Mirioron
Still costs several thousand dollars.

~~~
EdwardDiego
If he's losing $200 - $300 per day because of this, it'd pay for itself pretty
quickly.

------
RickSanchez2600
China does not respect US trademarks, but the US respects Chinese trademarks?
Someone explain it to me like I was 5, please?

~~~
bdowling
It is not a matter of respect. U.S. trademark law applies in the U.S. and
Chinese trademark law applies in China. The laws are just different.

The U.S. does more to protect a user of a mark who neglects to register. For
example, there is a "Burger King" restaurant that used the mark prior to the
well-known international chain. That business continues to use the mark for
its restaurant and can even exclude the well-known company from a limited
territory.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burger_King_(Mattoon,_Illinois...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burger_King_\(Mattoon,_Illinois\))

The Chinese system, by contrast, seems very unforgiving to a prior user who
neglects to register.

~~~
adinobro
Part of the reason for this is that the US system uses common law which means
that it changes over time based on previous cases.

The Chinese system is based more on the German system where courts have less
leeway and follow the laws more than interpret the laws.

The Chinese civil law is more common worldwide:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law)

~~~
bdowling
It's a bit more complicated than that. For trademark law, U.S. law is a
hybrid. _Federal_ law is always codified in a set of statutes, which makes it
a bit like a civil law jurisdiction, except that higher court decisions are
binding on trial courts. _State_ law is often codified, but sometimes it is
based on a common law history of judicial decisions.

The particular complexity for U.S. trademark law arises because the federal
law did not completely preempt state laws. Federal law applies generally to
marks registered with the federal government through the trademark office, but
there can also be rights based on state law.

------
majia
Seriously this issue has nothing to do with Chinese IP system. Any trademark
troll can register their trademark and send a takedown request to Apple. In
this specific case, Apple decides to take down the app because the trademark
is registered in a first-to-file juristication. It probably will make the same
decision if the patent troll registered the tradmark in most EU countries.

Trademark trolling is a big problem. Making this a China specific problem
doesn't help to solve it.

~~~
product50
The problem is that the Chinese company copied their app, trademarked it and
then petitioned Apple to remove the original app. And the general consensus is
that it is not surprising a "Chinese" company did this. That is where the
challenge is - the trust for Chinese companies is pretty low especially given
they do these types of activities.

~~~
majia
The Chinese company certainly deserves the blame and shame, but Much criticism
focuses on Chinese trademark system. What can we reasonably expect it to do
anything here? Should it check with every foreign company when a trademark is
filed? Should it intervene and regulate apple’s takedown action?

There are plenty of patent trolls and domain squatting all over the world but
rarely people blame US patent office or domain name registrar.

~~~
product50
At the very least they shouldn't have petitioned for the app to be banned
globally given they blatantly copied it. And Apple should have known better.
The current situation looks pretty bad on them.

------
brettnak
It seems to me like this is going to come up in the future "everyone who
bought an iDevice" vs Apple antitrust lawsuit.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/supreme-
court...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/supreme-court-
antitrust-apple.html)

------
zacurry
Chinese companies are bad, but are American companies any better ? They have
done the same with many traditional indian ayurvedic recipes.
[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2003/sep/08/wto.fair...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2003/sep/08/wto.fairtrade3)

~~~
mannykannot
Even the largest US companies will appropriate IP that isn't nailed down.
Cases appear here every few months.

In the 19th century, American entrepreneurs took the same attitude to European
IP as China now does to America - if anything, IP appropriation was even more
blatant than it is now.

------
polskibus
Registering trademarks etc. should be a part of the added value that an app
store brings. Don't forget that they take a heavy 30% cut per sale.

------
zachguo
This is just an example of trademark/copyright troll, which is becoming more
and more common in China since the IP system there is maturing.

------
diziet
About 2% of downloads & revenue (out of a total of $2~ million revenue and
6.6~ million downloads) came from China.

I wonder if filing for a trademark in the US (where they could prove first
use) and leaving the Chinese market would be a way to solve this.

~~~
mattnewton
They have a trademark in the EU and US according to the reddit thread. The
problem is their app was removed internationally instead of just in China, and
they are having trouble appealing it.

~~~
shekhardesigner
Feels like a lesson to be learned. You invent first - trademark it first as
well.

I wonder if the original game developer was in watch mode while all these
trademarks over EU, US and China was granted.

~~~
terramex
You misunderstood, original game developer has trademark registered in USA and
EU and still their game was removed form sale in those markets.

~~~
shekhardesigner
My bad,

@mastazi, If you have trademarks over EU, US - why not start a petition and
let community help you bring down Apple to reinstate you?

~~~
delfinom
Both Apple and Google rarely reinstate an app, they don't care, they hide
behind the corporate machine, they have plenty of other apps to take their cut
from.

------
nydel
I use an apple mobile; is there any way* to download the Playsaurus game
Clicker Heroes? I know it has, at least at times, been possible to install an
app via, say, a web browser like firefox where that app would not appear in-
store. I am not sure whether such a thing is possible anymore but would like
to support the game and its developer/s.

*without rooting or unjailing the device

~~~
morpheuskafka
You're talking about sideloading, that requires the game's IPA file and
signing with Cydia Impactor (or building it yourself from source in Xcode).
Unless you join Apple Dev Program for $99/yr you can only sign five apps for
up to seven days each (same if you are developing your own apps).

~~~
Wowfunhappy
> Unless you join Apple Dev Program for $99/yr you can only sign five apps for
> up to seven days each (same if you are developing your own apps).

That is, unless you use a gray market enterprise certificate, which is
probably what the GP is thinking of. It has gotten significantly harder to do
this in recent months, particularly after it came out that Facebook was
engaging in the practice...

~~~
morpheuskafka
Yes, but that will lead to the eventual revocation of the certificate at an
unpredictable time, which will render the app and all of its data
inaccessible.

------
inflatableDodo
I wonder if there might be any trademark Apple terms that haven't been
properly trademarked in China yet? Ponder, ponder...

------
indigodaddy
Why wouldn't Apple do better research before boneheaded actions such as this?

~~~
awakeasleep
The law often doesn't follow 'common sense' rules that laymen imagine.

You can think of it like a semantic error in your code. The computer/legal
system does what it was programmed to do, not 'the right thing'

~~~
techntoke
What law? Aren't they primarily an American company? Does this mean that they
will give up customer information to the Chinese government if required by law
there?

~~~
threeseed
Just because a company is American doesn't mean they can flout the laws of a
country they are selling products into.

Think about it in reverse. Would you accept a Chinese company ignoring US law
if they were selling something to US consumers.

~~~
skinnymuch
But the app was taken down worldwide. Your example is if the app was only
taken down in China, no?

------
mensetmanusman
This has happened to lots of mediums sized businesses operating in China that
didn’t have the resources to fight it.

Wups!

------
B-Con
I'm confused as to why the takedown is worldwide. Does China threaten the
company if they don't apply Chinese IP law apply outside of the country? Since
their IP laws are terribly primitive they clash with the rest of the world, so
that seems impossible.

~~~
aflag
I don't think taking it down worldwide has anything to do with China. It was
an Apple decision.

------
joelrunyon
One thing I haven't seen anyone say is that he should be FINE in the US. He
likely has recourse in the US given common law rights - no?

~~~
imtringued
Apple can just block you for any reason. Even if you win the lawsuit and the
copycat gets taken down, they won't have to host your app on their store.

------
ngcc_hk
standard chinese play. Someone may check Jordan the basket guy (the chinese
one I meant), cookie, ... many funny one. Not sure all real but must be a lot
as these kind of news just keep on coming up

------
founderling
Is the "first to file" topic even relevant here? It seems to be a way of
handling patents. But this case is about trademarks.

~~~
abdelm
It is relevant for trademarks as well. In the US, it's a first to use with
regards to trademarks, but China has a first to file trademark system.

------
tempodox
Being at the mercy of an external entity without recourse secured by a fair
bilateral contract is just no sound basis for a business.

------
duxup
They took it down worldwide? Or just in China?

Worldwide, I have the st00pids.

~~~
perennate
But is it worldwide under just the Chinese name "点击英雄" or also the English
name "Clicker Heroes"? The only relevant reply I saw was not definitive on
this:

> We can re-name it in China, yeah. With a ton of effort changing all of the
> artwork we created with the old name. But renaming "Clicker Heroes" (which
> we already trademarked) in the U.S. and EU would be senseless

Initially I thought it was the latter but now I think it is the former (only
the Chinese name affected).

Edit: this reply from the reddit thread but not be the game author suggests it
is the former as well:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/bs6n3l/apple_remov...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/bs6n3l/apple_removed_my_game_from_the_app_store_because/eokkp52/)

~~~
PakG1
This. Everyone's downvoting my comment below, but they're not understanding
this. People who say this is not the issue need to explain why.

~~~
perennate
I read your comment now but I don't see the relation, I'm just wondering
whether they are banned by Apple from selling under both the Chinese and
English names or just the Chinese name.

In regards to your comment below, a Chinese name doesn't indicate that they
are targeting China -- there are other Chinese-speaking markets like the
sovereign countries of Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. But I agree that they likely
were in part targeting sales in China, and that they ought to have trademarked
the Chinese name in China (along with other Chinese-speaking markets).

~~~
PakG1
I'd have to understand Malaysian IP laws before I can comment on that, may or
may not agree. For Taiwan, I disagree, as Taiwan uses traditional Chinese
characters, not simplified Chinese characters. IANAL, so maybe simplified vs
traditional doesn't matter either in IP matters, of course.

------
mapcars
But does someone expect something different from Apple?

------
rmbeard
Usage doesn't give you the rights to a name you need to trademark it to obtain
legal protection. This is business 101. I feel sorry for the company but this
is really an elementary error on their part.

~~~
odensc
They did trademark it in the US and EU. Then Apple removed it from _all_
countries because someone trademarked it in China - this is obviously Apple's
fault, not the business. If they removed it from only China, no one would
care.

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Iv
I laughed when someone predicted to me that US would get interested in fixing
stupid IP practices once China gets better than them at it. Looks like we are
nearing that point.

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vectorEQ
why if u have a huge game going on not trademark it yourself?

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ga-vu
I wish everyone would just ban Chinese goods already

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duxup
Did the non Chinese have any trademarks? Anywhere?

~~~
inflatableDodo
They will have had it automatically.

~~~
EduardoBautista
You are thinking of copyright. Trademarks are not automatic.

~~~
inflatableDodo
>'The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) defines a trademark as a "word,
phrase, symbol, or design, or a combination thereof," used to identify and
distinguish a company's goods. A service mark is essentially the same thing
but pertains to services rather than goods. Your mark (either trademark or
service mark) is legally protected through common law once it goes into
commercial use, but sometimes it makes sense to register your mark.'

[https://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/intellectual-
property/trad...](https://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/intellectual-
property/trademark-protection-by-use-or-by-registration.html)

~~~
fabianhjr
This is an argument similar to "China is odd for using the metric system; to
prove it here is the US using Imperial"

> Let’s start with how the U.S. is different from other countries. In the
> U.S., just using a brand in commerce will grant you some legal rights over
> the brand. Many jurisdictions, however, are “first-to-file” countries. That
> means whoever registers a trademark first – regardless of whether they’re
> using it – is the owner of the mark. For example, both China and Japan are
> “first-to-file” countries.

[https://thestartuplawblog.com/trademarks-file-outside-
u-s/](https://thestartuplawblog.com/trademarks-file-outside-u-s/)

~~~
inflatableDodo
Given I was ultimately writing in answer to;

>'Did the non Chinese have any trademarks? Anywhere?'

May I take this opportunity to say; 'Huh?'

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narnianal
I don't know why this is discussed on reddit and not in court, tbh.

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csyszf
Why some Americans all naturally consider the whole world should and will
follow US law...

And if not, they need to change their law as the US told. Kind of
supercilious, isn't it?

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everyone
In fairness mobile / idle / clicker game is one the dodgiest genres. All your
dev peers are gonna be money grubbing philistines. I dont know of any great
game-makers striving to make such a game for its artistic merit / innovation
or its contribution to the medium.

~~~
MRD85
The makers of this game have said how much they despise the money grabbing
tactics commonly used. The sequel has a retail price of $40 AUD and doesn't
contain ANY pay to win.

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shekhardesigner
You are in loss of $200 to $300 a day? if that's just a loss what's your
revenue? It must be very good unless I am missing something here.

YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN YOUR TRADEMARK first. You invented the game, hard
worked and put it out there FIRST.

I dont think getting a Trademark would have cost you fortune.

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blazespin
First to file is reasonable. Chinese trademark costs like $200

Geez, give it a break. Huge biz screw up, but just release under a different
name.

~~~
negrit
That's not the issue here. The problem is their app was removed
internationally instead of just in China, and they are having trouble
appealing it.

~~~
blazespin
No it’s not the issue. That’s just a communication problem. Apple has a basic
appeal process.

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supergirl
I don't understand the outrage. just because it's China? the same thing can
happen in any country, especially in the US. some random company can trademark
your game name. you don't like it? fight it in court? don't have money for
court? too bad. nothing new here. and if now your game infringes an american
trademark you can be 100% sure apple will pull the game worldwide.

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PakG1
Wait, they targeted China, released in China, made money in China, but didn't
register trademarks in China? I'm sorry, when in Rome.... If they were going
so heavy into China, they should have researched Chinese trademark law. Why
does the naive entrepreneur get to play the victim here? Yeah, China has bad
optics, but this situation was avoidable. The buck should always stop with the
entrepreneur, no?

edit: As I've written below: Right in the reddit post, he writes they were
marketing it as 点击英雄 in 2014 on a Chinese website. It does look like they were
targeting China. There is nothing on that post to indicate otherwise. If I am
missing something, let me know. I'm going based off of what I read in the
Reddit post.

What is likely happening here is that a peon at Apple is acting as a finite
state machine in a faulty process without thinking. Marketing it as 点击英雄 would
make that easy. Hopefully, Apple gets this right for the rest of the world and
reverses their decision, but I mean... it's marketed as 点击英雄! In China! On a
Chinese website!

~~~
duxup
The app was taken down worldwide, not in Rome.

~~~
PakG1
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_in_Rome,_do_as_the_Romans...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_in_Rome,_do_as_the_Romans_do)

~~~
inflatableDodo
I never liked that phrase. Which Romans in particular? Rome was complicated as
hell and regularly ruled by unpredictable incestuous madmen.

I'd rather not do as the Romans do, whilst in Rome, lest they mistake me for a
Roman and I end up dead in some strange political intrigue, possibly featuring
a drunken goat.

~~~
duxup
Yeah but if you act differently you might end up entertainment...

