
Escaping San Francisco - mysticlabs
https://techpost.io/escaping-san-francisco/
======
tempsy
This story makes no sense. $3700 can get you a nice 1 bedroom anywhere in SF,
so it’s unclear why they couldn’t have found another place. If you’re renting,
you find mold, and your landlord does nothing then by CA law you have the
right to break your lease for unsafe living conditions.

The author’s LinkedIn is filled with executive/founder/CEO roles (and claiming
a 7 figure exit) and yet still needing to use GoFundMe for $50k?

Also don’t understand how his existing health insurance through his work would
not cover him. He claims he doesn’t have it anymore because they wouldn’t
treat him? I’ve never heard of a situation where you get insurance through
your work and you are dropped because they won’t treat you for some reason.

Lastly the mold is clearly visible in all the videos and pics he linked! It’s
not like they four years later decided to pull out some carpet or something
and only then discovered the place was filled with mold. They seriously lived
there for 4 years without questioning that at all? If the story is true
(questionable, really) then I would have to question their mental capacity if
they thought nothing of all the clear as day black mold all over their
apartment while getting sick without thinking twice about it.

~~~
keiferski
The doorbell story made me stop and question the article.

You can get a digital door bell on Amazon for $15. It didn’t occur to the
author to do so for 9 months?

Edit: I didn’t want to imply that the author is lying. Hopefully he is able to
get healthy again. But when someone is asking for money and their story has
some odd holes in it, I think it’s only natural to be skeptical.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
Tenants shouldn't pay to maintain the property, that's what they're paying
exorbitant monthly fees for.

~~~
chrisseaton
Shouldn't, yes. But why would you choose nine months of inconvenience over
paying $10 for a new doorbell yourself? What kind of rational decision is
that? How are they valuing their time here?

------
CPLX
This article is literally nonsense, it’s at the same level of medical rigor as
an anti-vax rant, and appears to be crafted intentionally to get people
susceptible to this kind of narrative to give them money.

I can’t believe it’s being taken seriously here.

~~~
candiodari
Mold can definitely cause long-term medical symptoms. People not realizing
this is happening because they're cheaping out is also not that rare.

------
Daniel_sk
It's really sad that in US you have to ask for donations for your healthcare,
this is absurd in a country on this level. I live in EU and I have been to US
(and SFO) and I feel like live a more comfortable life here in EU. And I live
in the "poorer" Slovakia (compared to west EU). I don't need to think about
costs if I get sick or injured (+ I get social support in case I can't work
during that time).

~~~
qnsi
How long do you wait for medical stuff? In Poland wait is sometimes >1 year

~~~
yulaow
In Italy it's, for low urgency, ~6months in public hospitals, 3days - 1week in
private public-affiliated clinics paying the same as in the hospital (which
are the main used solution to not overcrowd hospitals), <1day in full private
clinics paying a bit more (eg ~ 80euros for a low abdomen eco, instead of ~ 15
in the public and affiliated)

If you have an high priority you get served by an hospital the same day.

------
kristianc
> We eventually discovered the apartment building we were living in was built
> in 1908.

Come to England, we have houses built in 1600. Growing up in one of the
wealthiest neighborhoods in the entire country, living in SF and having to
wait for a few fixes (fix your own damn doorbell?) to your apartment is not
Victorian level penury.

But man if I’m not enjoying the juxtaposition of Mr Crypto Blockchain Free
Thinker with ‘why won’t someone fix my doorbell for me’:
[https://trentlapinski.com/](https://trentlapinski.com/)

~~~
huffmsa
It is the legal obligation of the landlord to fix the bell, but sometimes
you've got to threaten to sue / ruffle a few feathers to get shit done. Or do
it yourself.

Guy's allegedly been building and selling since '01.

Where's the money gone?

------
chrisseaton
> We eventually discovered the apartment building we were living in was built
> in 1908. Yes, we were living in a “sick” building that was over 100 years
> old, and never knew. We even found photos of our former apartment in
> historical archives dating back to the 1920’s.

Is being just a hundred years old some kind of inherent problem? Obviously
rotting is bad but they talk about discovering that it existed in 1908 like
they found out that it’s a time machine, or that people didn’t take photos in
the 20s. What’s the big deal about the age?

~~~
AllegedAlec
American houses are made with cheap wood most of the time. Especially when you
live in an older home, these are highly attractive to moulds when the building
isn't maintained.

~~~
MisterTea
They are highly attractive to molds when plumbing leaks all over. Otherwise
they are dry as a bone and sag in places. They're also built like shit so
floors are wobbly and uneven and bowled in spots. A ball in the living room
will roll to the center from any point in the room.

My mother's house was built in 1927 here in Queens NYC and the place is a shit
box. After redoing the living room and fixing up the kitchen I can safely say
that once that house is sold it will be knocked over. They're just a cheap
rickety mess thrown up by the dozens.

------
cowsandmilk
> after we finally called the city, their inspectors discovered a number of
> safety, structural, and health violations

They probably should have called the city on day one of moving in. Did they
really go years believing this place was inhabitable? Did they never have a
friend stop by and see the shitty conditions and insist they should call the
city?

There is an inspection department who can haul your landlord into court. You
can also withhold rent when your unit is in these conditions and if you show
up to court with the photos from these posts, your landlord will be in for a
bad time.

They claim the building suffered from lack of oversight from the city; and
sure the city didn’t know it was being rented out. But it also suffered from
lack of someone actually notifying the city.

------
ojagodzinski
> At one point our doorbell stopped working, resulting in at least a half
> dozen packages being stolen (..) It took us over 9 months of emails and
> complaints to the landlords to finally get the doorbell replaced

Is this a fucking joke? Remote doorbell costs like 4USD. You should just buy
it yourself...

> 3,657 USD per month for an apartment

It is cheaper to go to EU by plane, get a job for like one month, get proper
healthcare and come back ;)

------
thatfrenchguy
> We were paying $3,657.60 per month for an apartment built in 1908 that got
> us and our dog severely sick

Why did you not move ? $3600 will get you a nice 1bd in San Francisco...

------
prpl
I’ve been paranoid about how bad places in SF can be, and have had some issues
with mold occasionally. I have a rent controlled apartment I’ve been in for 8
years, but I’ve done the maintenance myself to improve the place and keep
health issues down, which largely boils down to making sure surfaces are
sealed and cleanable:

Paint the bathroom and use a mold killing primer.

Refinished hardwood floors.

Wash walls with TSP and paint using an oil-based primer (only one room so far,
this was more for lead-based paint sealing)

Keep the windows cracked often

Clean the bathroom walls with bleach often (several times a year)

Clean some other room walls with bleach occasionally (once a year)

Clean window sills a few times a year

Bought a dehumidifier (I will actually buy another soon)

I don’t pay $3k+ a month though. One of the reasons I did all that work is
precisely because I have been worried about moving to a new place, spending s
fortune, only to find the landlord has never maintained it or knows how
terrible it is.

~~~
gregors
regarding bleach and mold - tldr don't use bleach on drywall

[https://homeguides.sfgate.com/bleach-thing-clean-mold-off-
wa...](https://homeguides.sfgate.com/bleach-thing-clean-mold-off-
walls-105077.html)

------
chkaloon
9 months of stolen packages because of a broken doorbell? Here, I'll help
[https://www.amazon.com/Zeapa-Receivers-Transmitter-
Indicator...](https://www.amazon.com/Zeapa-Receivers-Transmitter-Indicator-
Waterproof/dp/B07G9XYF8N)

------
habosa
The only thing more toxic than the mold in the apartment are the comments
here.

Yeah it sounds like Trent could have handled the situation better. It also
sounds like he didn't and is now pretty screwed. There's no need to pile on.

In the end I just don't think this post belongs on HN but I guess upvotes
don't lie.

------
mikece
I am no lawyer but it sound like the landlords are liable in a huge way.

~~~
8draco8
Even if they are it's USA, everybody have to pay their lawyer bills. It's not
like in UK or many other countries where the side that looses pays up all
costs. So if you have to choose between paying for healthcare and paying for
the lawyers you'll obviously choose your health.

------
berniepebbles
This is promoting victim culture. Many red flags and many GoFundMe links.

If you can’t afford a lifestyle, move. If you can’t afford the lifestyle, but
continue to live there, don’t create a gofundme and craft a sob story
highlighting your negligence.

On a positive note, you can get a job, graduate high school, and not have kids
out of wedlock (dogs are not cheap either). You have all 3 of those going for
you. You are tougher than you think.

You should reject all of those GoFundMe dollars or have a plan to repay people
who donated.

------
baybal2
For $3700 a month you can live like a king in a 300m²+ serviced mansion
apartment here

------
sizzle
"We are both suffering from lingering neurological damage, chronic fungal
infections on our skin, GIs, sinuses, and even my ear canals. I’ve even lost
some hearing (possibly permanently) in my left ear. Our health and immune
systems are still compromised and _we need regular access to a low EMF
infrared sauna, hyperbaric oxygen chambers, and may even need stem cells to
make a full recovery_ so we can regain our stamina, mental faculties, get
married, and hopefully if we still can, have children. The clock is ticking on
our recovery so we can try to have children and we simply can’t wait or rely
on the possibility of the courts to rule in our favor a year or two from now."

Gonna need to see some peer reviewed medical journal citations regarding
effects of mold in humans to take any of these claims seriously.

"low EMF infrared sauna, hyperbaric oxygen chambers, stem cells..."

Stem cells?!... to treat what exactly?

You can't exactly stroll into a pharmacy with an Rx for a petri dish of
freshly harvested stem cells for self administered intracerebral injection.

------
flak48
As someone planning to move to San Francisco from outside the US soon, is
living in SF really as bad as all the blogs make it to be?

I chose SF mainly because of its proximity to the outdoors (which I value
highly) and relative lack of a concrete jungle feeling compared to NYC

EDIT: I have visited SF a few times for work before, and found the
homelessness and filth to be confined to a few neighborhoods..

~~~
keerthiko
One of the cliche transplants from SF to NYC: The lack of concrete jungle, and
that desire from people both who predated the tech deluge and those who
arrived because of it (like you are planning to be) is _precisely why_ it has
become as bad as the blogs make it to be.

I think some things are not as bad as the blogs make it be, and many things a
lot worse. In the latter category:

\- there is now a "fire season". Yes, those precious outdoors, swathes of it
gets burned and the beautiful CA air gets filled with smoke from burnt
forests, houses and people

\- the city is politically paralyzed. Everyone now treats their SF stay as
even more temporary (moreso than the natives already complained about before,
because now it's crappy to live in for everyone, not just the poor people) =
limited investment in political future

\- diversity shrinks every year. It gets more white/asian, more male, more
single/childless, more tech, and more techie-centric entertainment, and less
everything else everyday

\- offline businesses are narrowing operation. Not merely "local" and "small"
businesses dying, but even chain stores are not able to find staff or attract
enough foot traffic because...the city simply doesn't have that many people
out and about anymore. Business hours are shrinking, stores are receding to
the downtown center streets, and service staff is disappearing. There are
hardly 50 stores left in all of SF that are open 24 hours, even my podunk
hometown in Oman, Middle East has more.

\- the tourist industry is dying. People used to visit and fall in love with
SF. Now, they get embarrassed about the state of the city (the more obvious
stuff like homelessness, cost of living, filth) and leave trying to forget
about this city.

I still love SF, and would love to move back if they can turn the ship around.
As a non-US citizen I cannot even vote, and felt utterly helpless in the face
of rampant NIMBYism preventing any development, upzoning, housing reform,
transit reform, tax reform, homelessness relief, police retraining, non-tech
subsidies, etc. But over the course of the 6-7 years I lived there, it went
from a "this city is wonderful" love to the kind of love you have for a drug-
addled suicidal family member.

It is incredibly relieving to see NYC being run _extremely_ competently in
contrast, and while I vaguely miss the weather, imo the summers here are
better, the winters perfectly tolerable, seasons are a nice way to keep track
of the passage of time, and I can enjoy nature more every time I go out of
town.

~~~
csomar
> \- the tourist industry is dying. People used to visit and fall in love with
> SF. Now, they get embarrassed about the state of the city (the more obvious
> stuff like homelessness, cost of living, filth) and leave trying to forget
> about this city.

Not true. From [https://www.sftravel.com/article/san-francisco-travel-
report...](https://www.sftravel.com/article/san-francisco-travel-reports-
record-breaking-tourism-levels-2018-gives-projections-2019)

> San Francisco Travel is reporting a total of 25.8 million visitors to the
> city in 2018 (with minor adjustments expected as final data is received), up
> 1.2 percent over 25.5 million in 2017.

Total spending by visitors was $10 billion, up 2.3 percent over $9.8 billion
in 2017 (including spending on meetings and conventions).

~~~
keerthiko
One can argue conferences and conventions and business travel is still
tourism, but not the kind that comes to appreciate the city, people, culture
or history. SF will remain a destination for the starry-eyed tech grad and
entrepreneur despite everything, that is not what I am commenting to here.

As for total spending, 2.3% is not even inflation in a normal place, let alone
the most rapidly inflating city in the world. If you adjust for 2017 vs 2018
dollars, that is definitely a decline. By my estimate the cost of most things
a visitor would spend on has gone up by at least 5% on average between those
years (as the report you link posted, hotels up by 6%, and airbnbs up by far
more than that, and similarly with ticketed entries, transportation and food).

This report paints a far rosier picture than what is actually happening when
you account for the rate at which prices of things tourists pay for are going
up relative to the tourism revenue numbers themselves.

More viscerally, if you live in SF for 2-3 years and hang around tourist spots
often enough, you can just feel this viscerally as the lines outside shops
have shrunk, numerous shopkeeps are just dusting their shelves with no
customers, and gifts look unpurchased for years.

~~~
csomar
Inflation for 2018 was 1.9% in the US. So that's still above inflation but
also the number of visitors have increased. You should also probably take into
account that the city is saturated and thus there isn't any room for growth.
(which kinda of the equivalent of the city costs inflating more than the
average city in the US).

> you can just feel this viscerally as the lines outside shops have shrunk,
> numerous shopkeeps are just dusting their shelves with no customers, and
> gifts look unpurchased for years.

Or maybe consumers are changing their behaviors for lack of a better word. It
never made sense to me, why, as a tourist I should go shop through the city
stores. The brands are the same back home, the prices are x2 what you pay in
Amazon and the logistics are not that great (flight/taxis/trains/bags/etc...)

I don't think tourism is dying in SF or any city in the world (Tourism growth
is so strong that even if you are a sucker-city you'll still beat records) but
there is little value-added in these shops that tourists will stop and drop $$
at them.

------
scottmcleod
This is the most san francisco thing ever..

------
JDiculous
The toxicity in the comments section here is revolting. Seriously disappointed
in HN here.

Anyways back to the post, it would seem like the landlord should be liable for
all these damages.

San Francisco has a ton of problems that literally just don't exist in other
first world countries. From overpriced low quality apartments with toxic mold
to so much poverty and financial desperation that one's grocery delivery gets
stolen in 10 minutes, SF has never appealed to me in the slightest bit even as
a software engineer.

I hope they're able to find the help they need, and I appreciate their bravery
in speaking out. Don't let the oddly defensive anonymous keyboard warriors
silence you.

------
the_svd_doctor
So interesting (and sad). Is there a simple way for people to detect mold in
apartments without opening the walls ?

~~~
detaro
You can buy test kits, which either provide a growing medium and you'll see if
airborne spores cause something to grow, which you then can get tested for
what it is exactly, or let you take air samples that you mail to a lab.

------
lewisflude
Is GoFundMe really a popular way to pay for healthcare costs in the US?

~~~
parrellel
God, unfortunately, yes.

~~~
Bostonian
Let's be realistic. Do you think even 1% of health care expenditures are paid
by Go Fund Me appeals?

~~~
parrellel
I doubt it, but, I have been hit up for Go Fund Me money multiple times by
people trying to cover unexpected medical expenses. They included friends,
neighbors, and my literal actual boss. So, while I doubt it's an appreciable
amount in absolute terms, it definitely seems normal.

------
X-Istence
For $3700 you can have a brand new apartment in the Dogpatch of SF... if I
find mold I am not staying, especially if the landlord won't fix it.

There's a lot about this story that just doesn't seem to add up... its weird.

------
RickJWagner
Author should have posted a 'Roast me' article on Reddit. It would've been
faster.

------
op00to
I feel stupider for having read this, but I get solace from the idea that
fools are giving other fools money. Keeps the fools from bothering me.

------
csomar
I hate to say this seeing what the OP is going through: But this seems largely
their responsibility. While the landlord, in theory, should provide these
baseline services of cleaning and repair, sometimes you got to take matters
with your hands.

I have been in this situation before and there were either one of these two
solutions: Fix things yourself if you can't afford a new place; or find a new
place and make sure things are fixed. I prefer finding a new place but
sometimes you can't afford that and need to take matters with your hands.

Where should I start?

> It took us over 9 months of emails and complaints to the landlords to
> finally get the doorbell replaced.

Replace the doorbell yourself. Should be easier than the endless contact with
your landlord. Should be fixed in 1-2 days. Return the old doorbell when you
are leaving the property.

> We ran home, but by the time we got there the box was gone.

I'm not really sure. But if I got a package stolen, I'll probably stop
ordering delivery. I thought delivery is mostly useful for those living in
suburbs but if you are in the city, just walk to the nearest store? And that
would help preserve the community too, right?

> the gold rush mentality of the tech industry, which is mostly a lie.

Which sounds like the OP profile?
[https://trentlapinski.com/](https://trentlapinski.com/)

If you think it's B.S. don't do it for the sake of money or fitting in. It'll
just make you miserable.

Let's look at the photos:

> [https://techpost.io/uploads/mold-
> document-4.jpg](https://techpost.io/uploads/mold-document-4.jpg)

This is "inside" the house. It'll take months for such a mold to develop. They
probably have a problem with water but hell sure they have a problem with
cleaning. Mold is easy to remove from my experience. Just clean the damn
thing.

Tip: Paint is cheap. Buy a bucket and paint it yourself.

> [https://imgur.com/a/VCFLDxz](https://imgur.com/a/VCFLDxz)

I might be wrong here but this dust looks like it built up over a very long
period. Looks like the guy and his girlfriend don't clean up?

> [https://techpost.io/uploads/mold-
> document-2.jpg](https://techpost.io/uploads/mold-document-2.jpg)

Jesus. Did it ever come up to your mind that this doesn't look healthy? If you
didn't see it, do you ever change your bed sheets?

You are paying $3500/month. The repairs could have been done by you in the
weekend or the end of the day. Probably costing you less than $1000 for a one
year value worth until new repairs.

Here is a tip: If your landlord is non-cooperative, tell him you are fixing it
yourself but will invoice him later. He might/might not accept that but at
least you get it fixed.

tl;dr: Time to grow up?

~~~
marcinzm
>Mold is easy to remove from my experience. Just clean the damn thing.

External mold is, mold inside the walls is not. And if you have mold inside
the walls then no amount of cleaning outside the walls will fix the situation.

~~~
csomar
Then regularly clean the outside until you can move to another place.

