
Joy of using linux - minhajuddin
http://minhajuddin.com/2011/06/09/joy-of-using-linux/
======
roel_v
I like Linux as much as the next guy, but his argument is basically 'Linux
couldn't open a file that everybody else could, but by dicking around with
random half-assed documented tools we could do it anyway!'. Basically, 'we
managed to do something that is absolutely trivial for everybody else by
jumping through hoops and spending a bunch of time on it to do it the
convoluted way.'. Hmm right, not exactly a compelling argument for Linux's
superiority.

~~~
edoloughlin
He managed to find free, command-line tools to read a proprietary data format.
This means he could potentially wrap a simple script around them and automate
the process if he needed to do it on a regular basis.

Would this be free & scriptable on Windows? It's been a while since I had to
do anything comparable on Win, but I think he would have had to buy MS Office
(Pro?) with VB or Visual C++ to do it.

~~~
roel_v
It would be completely trivial on Windows since mdb files are accessed with
the Jet database engine, one would set up a database connection string just
like when accessing an Oracle or SQL Server database through ODBC and then use
whatever database api is available in one's language of choice (vbscript,
javascript (both of them available as 'standard' cscript engines on any
installation of Windows since 2001), powershell, visual basic, C++, ...) to
extract the data.

Or, one would google for 10 seconds like I just did and find for example
[http://timothychenallen.blogspot.com/2007/08/vb-convert-
any-...](http://timothychenallen.blogspot.com/2007/08/vb-convert-any-access-
table-to-csv.html) which does that for you and converts the file into a csv
file, and then process it like other csv files. No Office or Visual Basic
required.

So his claim 'this would have taken a couple of hours' (about converting the
mdb to csv on Windows) is a load of bollocks and FUD. He didn't even search
for it I'd wager, and let his ideologically myopic view cloud his pragmatic
judgement. I'm not sure why people are defending this sort of juvenile
fanboyism, it's drivel like this that makes the rest of us serious users who
propose Linux in situations where it actually _is_ better than the
alternatives look like nutcases.

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davidw
The real joy of using Linux and open source software is that you realize that
_you_ are the only limitation, and that you can hack anything and everything.
It's like a huge, enormous box of legos to play with:-)

~~~
rjbond3rd
Right on. There are no secrets in Linux. You can drill all the way down and
then some.

------
pistacchio
my joy of using linux gone away long ago when i realized that i was spending
more time searching forums, hacking drivers, trying solutions, paying more for
compatible hardware, not having my laptop extra buttons work or trying to
speed up a virtual machine just to have a usable photoshop than actually
_using_ it.

i'm a happy mac user now (user, not fanboy) that enjoys having a posix
compliant terminal in a window and photoshop in another, all working out-of-
the-box.

i'm happy to pay for this.

~~~
Wickk
You're just proving the point that linux ( and this can be said for ANY os )
is not for everyone.

For the past 6 years, I've been much happier with my experience using Linux
and the several distro's I've tried my hand at while no it night be perfect
I've learned a lot and have been generally more please.

I don't require or use Photoshop, however you do so your wants and needs are
different than mine.

I can list problems I've had with windows, that had me run into driver issues,
searching through forums and the many many mishaps ( not virus/malware related
) that I've run into. But in the end it would just boil down to my bad
experience vs the millions of windows users who would protest to the contrary.

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deno
My experience opening .mdb file on Linux:

0\. Make sure Kexi is installed.

1\. Click on it.

It's numbered from 0, because Microsoft Access isn't a standard part of
Windows either.

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brown9-2
I think this story speaks more to the joy of excellent package managers,
something I am sorely missing in OS X.

~~~
mnutt
While not integrated into the OS, Homebrew is an excellent package manager on
OS X.

~~~
brown9-2
Thanks for the suggestion. I've had better luck with Macports so far, I just
wish that a package manager was as seemlessly built-in as it is in Ubuntu or
Fedora.

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mironathetin
Well, this is also my experience with linux: many things you want to do just
don't work out of the box. There is always (nearly) a way to do things,
though.

But if you really want to do work and not always fight against your tool of
choice, linux is not the thing to use.

For coding, I replaced it with Mac OS. This saves me 98% of the problems I had
on linux.

To be fair: I wouldn't know an out-of-the-box way to convert a MS Access file
to csv on the Mac either.

~~~
Newky
I'm not trying to start an argument, but in regards to coding, I take your
point completely if your talking about iOS development or something specific
to Mac Programming, but if not, what exactly were the obstacles for
development in Linux.

I use Linux mainly because of its ease of use in terms of development. I would
be interested in hearing your arguments for the Mac. My friend recently got a
Mac, and unbeknown to himself was forced to download a 2.something GB download
for the developer pack just so he could get GCC, Now I know there are better
ways to achieve this, but this to me seems counter productive.

~~~
Derbasti
You know, he could have inserted his installation DVD and installed it from
there. Also, Ubuntu ships without make, Ruby or Python, too, so I can't really
see that Linux is at an advantage there.

After that, both Linux and Mac are Unix systems and have package managers that
can install stuff (third party on Mac). Personally, I spend most of my time in
Chrome, a terminal and Vim. On OSX. Because I like it that way. But I could
certainly replicate that same development process in some Linux distro.

Also, many Linux applications work just fine on OSX but not the other way
around. So there is some argument for choosing OSX. Also, all that basic stuff
like connecting to networks, having MS Office, etc. just plain works better on
OSX. But to each his own.

~~~
Wickk
>Ubuntu ships without make, Ruby or Python Since when does Ubuntu ship without
make and python? Python 2.X has been included in standard installations for
quite a few releases now. I also can't remember the last time I had to
manually install make.

~~~
mbubb
A barebones install might not have ruby or python. When I install it as a
server I try to reduce the packages to a minimum and build up from there. I
usually try to a network install as well (for Ubuntu or CentOS).

I would rather put on whatever I want later.

A default Ubuntu install I think has Python on board. Not as sure about Ruby.

------
flocial
Linux users are mostly lost without Google, myself included. It gets you into
a yak-shaving mindset. Ditto with Emacs. If I can stop fiddling I'm sure I'll
be more productive.

~~~
Hawramani
"The same technology that simplifies life by providing more functions in each
device also complicates life by making the device harder to learn, harder to
use. This is the paradox of technology." -Donald A. Norman, _The Design of
Everyday Things_.

------
zwieback
My main take away from this post is that you shouldn't make bad assumptions
about data formats.

However, my Linux experience is much like the author's: assume you'll get
something to work, find out what's missing, apt-get to the rescue.

The problem for me is when things go out of date. I try to install something
and it triggers 250MB of seemingly unrelated updates. In all fairness, that
usually happens when I build stuff from source, not when installing packages.

~~~
mbubb
I hope for your sake that yo are not letting it get that much behind on
security updates.

I recommend that you do at least this:

<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates>

The idea that Linux does not need to be updated is a dangerous one.

~~~
zwieback
I do try to stay up to date on my desktop systems. The embedded Linux systems
are usually hopelessly out of date, though.

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minhajuddin
For guys who say it would be easier to do this on windows: I have worked on
windows a _lot_ but nothing on windows would stand against the simplicity of
_mdb-export myfile.mdb marks > marks.csv_, this is obviously subjective.

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imojito
Or use best of both worlds

[http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/prefix/bootstrap-
ma...](http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/prefix/bootstrap-macos.xml)

~~~
lloeki
Or MacPorts [1], or Homebrew [2]

[1] <http://www.macports.org/>

[2] <http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/>

~~~
imojito
Quite not the same (full distro repository vs small amount of ported apps).
Easier and useful, though.

~~~
lloeki
_Small_ is not quite exact. MacPorts has 8,000+ ports. Homebrew has 1600+
formulae but this is an awful metric due to the distributed nature of its
development (2000+ forks, with some very specialized) and it is barely two
years old!

Take the package count for Debian as a reference: <http://ftp-
master.debian.org/users/joerg/pkg-nums>

------
Joakal
Wouldn't using the synaptic package manager work better? I've heard it touted
as one of the reasons for Linux being superior than Windows and Mac (except
for App store) by having a central repository of many programs. Want Gimp?
sudo apt-get install gimp or mark Gimp in the package manager and it'll
download and install all the related packages and dependencies.

My only gripe is that the search is not good but Google spoiled me.

~~~
brown9-2
Isn't Synaptic just a GUI front end to apt-get?

~~~
mbubb
Yes somewhat and apt is a wrapper on top of dpkg ...

So on a Debian/Ubuntu or related system your common options are:

* dpkg

* apt-get and apt-cache

* aptitude

* synaptic

All the apt-based programs use the same /etc/apt/ files. There is a lot of
overlap but specific reasons I might use one or the other.

I use aptitude to do global updates as in:

    
    
        aptitude update && aptitude safe-upgrade
    

Apt-get has the most commandline options.

I have not figured out how to do the following two on aptitude - so just use
apt-get:

    
    
        "apt-get dist-upgrade"
    
        "apt-get -f"
    

(which is not to say it doesnt - just havent found it in 'the fine manual')

Synaptic is fun to browse. almost like an android app store. I use it looking
for a fun new game for my kid to play on my laptop, etc.

And dpkg is useful for local installs (dpkg -i) and also for dpkg-reconfigure
when you have to change something in the config of an installed package.

I also deal with yum/rpm (which is a similar pairing as apt/dpkg). I first
learned on Debian so I have a fondness for apt.

In my experience it is pretty stable and easy to use. When I read the OP I
thought the 'actually this shows how cool apt or yum can be to use'.

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skbohra123
neat, but not worth being on front page.

------
alopes
as they say "Linux is only free if your time has no value".

