
Carol Dweck Revisits the 'Growth Mindset' - SpaceInvader
http://qz.com/587811/stanford-professor-who-pioneered-praising-effort-sees-false-praise-everywhere/
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tokenadult
Thanks for posting this follow-up on Dweck's research. I had earlier read the
Education Week version of this report (but that is now behind a paywall for
most readers), so I'm glad to see that Quartz is also publishing about Dweck's
follow-up research.

As a teacher, I find that the number-one thing that too many learners in
school settings need to learn is that just because a learning task feels hard,
that doesn't mean that they should stop trying to learn. That's especially
important in mathematics.[1] "Problems worthy of attack, prove their worth by
hitting back,"[2] so anyone who is still learning-problem-solving will have to
show courage while feeling stupid many times along the way. Most school
lessons (especially in mathematics, these days) are appallingly easy, and
don't help learners learn how to deal with the frustration of being stuck
while solving a problem.

As a parent, I've learned how hard it can be to get this message through to
children. It works best if you start VERY young. My oldest son, a hacker, told
me during his last visit to see us at the home where he grew up that he just
recently finished reading Dweck's original 2006 book _Mindset: The New
Psychology of Success_.[3] He remarked that he could have saved himself a lot
of learning by crashing and burning repeatedly if he had read it sooner. I
smiled, because I remember recommending the book to him soon after it was
published, but the fact that he tried again after the first few dozen times
that he crashed and burned and never gave up showed that he picked up the key
part of the book's message years ago. By contrast, growth mindset thinking is
second nature to our daughter, eleven years younger than he is. She has heard
about it literally for as long as she can remember.

[1]
[https://www.facebook.com/MathCircles/posts/171401072987768](https://www.facebook.com/MathCircles/posts/171401072987768)

[2]
[https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Piet_Hein](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Piet_Hein)

[3] [http://mindsetonline.com/](http://mindsetonline.com/)

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jernfrost
Interesting read, but I got to say that getting it right isn't easy. I do
struggle with my kids to find the right approach. Sometimes I can see my kids
keep trying but with no effort because I just told them to not give up. There
is a sort of defiance. Then you know it is a failure.

I think effort usually works best when it comes with inspiration and want.
People who do something a lot because they enjoy it will advance faster than
people who do something a lot because they are just told to do it a lot.

But what I think the growth mindset can help with is to make kids not so
afraid of failing and not getting stuff or make them seek bigger challenges.

My son was given 3 texts of different difficulty level at school. He didn't
get why he should pick the longer more complicated one. We read through the
simple one and I told him, "You made no mistakes reading this. That isn't
really good. That means this is TOO EASY for you. You are not learning
anything reading this. You are only learning when it is a bit difficult and
you make mistakes. I think you should read the harder text. Don't worry about
making mistakes. You are supposed to do that. That is what learning is about."

That "speech" did seem to have some effect. It took down a sort of mental
barrier where he felt secure and comfortable about texts he found easy to
read.

I also try to point out to him when other kids are good at something. I tell
him, Peter is really good at that. He must have practiced a lot to get that
good.

Although I am very well aware of many skills being inherent, I don't want him
to think that skills are completely intrinsic to people.

Ultimately there is only so much you can do. You can make kids not afraid of
trying, but you can't make them enjoy something they really aren't interested
in.

~~~
ido

        I also try to point out to him when other kids are good 
        at something. I tell him, Peter is really good at that.
        He must have practiced a lot to get that good.
    

I think this can backfire (with them hearing "why are you not as good as
Peter?").

Aside from trying to encourage productive mindsets, I think it's _also_
important that they know that they have intrinsic value _as people_ ,
regardless of what they accomplish.

~~~
germinalphrase
As someone who works with youth, _everything_ can backfire depending on you
kid, circumstance, tone, and so on. This is one of those sometimes inscrutable
skills that parents/youth workers develop over time. I wish we had a better
way to teach these soft 'people skills' as so many have no idea the effects
they can/do have on those around them.

Saying the right thing, at the right time, can have an amazing effect on a
kid.

OTOH, it's so frustrating and sad to see that some insidious/self-destructive
idea has been beaten into a kid's head. Hard to break those things,
particularly when they become self-reinforcing (e.g. dad calls me an idiot > I
do poorly in class > I must be an idiot > I do even worse in class ...)

~~~
cJ0th
> As someone who works with youth, everything can backfire depending on you
> kid, circumstance, tone, and so on.

Amen.

Dweck's thesis is alright in that there are worst things you could teach a
kid. But the overwhelming support that she receives for her work imho rather
stems from what our capitalistic society currently wants to hear then a
magnificent scientific breakthrough.

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dang
This article points to [http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2015/09/23/carol-
dweck-rev...](http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2015/09/23/carol-dweck-
revisits-the-growth-mindset.html), but also includes an original interview, so
we haven't changed the URL. We have taken the title of the other article,
though, because it's more informative.

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westoncb
Summary of the follow-up: the heart of the 'Growth Mindset' is believing that
one's intelligence is changeable; the other aspects of the theory are
consequences of that central proposition. So, while the choice to praise
effort (rather than immediate ability) is a natural consequence of believing
that intelligence can improve, it's not enough to skip over the point about
changeable intelligence, and only praise effort, for example.

This makes a lot of sense: if people believe their intelligence is changeable,
they'll understand the value of effort on their own. More than anything,
praising effort is just another way of getting across the point that one's
intelligence can be improved.

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devinhelton
Can someone explain to me what claim Professor Dweck has demonstrated that is
both novel and true? I've heard a lot about growth mindset but I still don't
know what claim she has proven that is not already pretty obvious.

~~~
chrismanfrank
Fixed mindset is the belief that qualities like intelligence are fixed and
can't change. Growth mindset is the belief that these qualities can be grown
through effort.

Dwecks research shows that a) kids with a growth mindset do better in school,
especially in math, and b) kids can learn to have a growth mindset through
relatively small interventions like reading and discussing a short article
about the brain.

I think point a) is obvious, but point b) was not until Dwecks research.

~~~
tbrownaw
(b) is not only not obvious, it also has some rather absurd implications due
to the size of the effect and doesn't seem to replicate to the real world.
Both of which imply it's bunk.

