
The Asus MacBook Air, sort of - aaronbrethorst
http://www.marco.org/2011/11/09/the-assbook-air
======
forza
How is it that when someone takes inspiration from an Apple product it's
stealing, but when Apple does the same thing it's either genius (to the point
of being one mans creation) or the importance of original invention is
trivilized? Being inspired is the foundation of creating new things, as almost
everything new is actually taking one or more known things and combining them.
What bothers me is when you take inspiration from something, claim it's your
own unique invention and try to prevent anyone else from doing something with
it.

~~~
gmac
Easy. When you do something that's been done before _and do it better_ , you
get credit. When you do something that's been done before _and do it worse_
(e.g. this Macbook Air clone), you don't.

~~~
dman
Have you used the Asus UX31?

------
tikhonj
Asus may not have "done it right", but that doesn't mean there aren't good
lightweight laptops to rival the air.

I have a Sony Vaio Z. It weighs less than the corresponding 13" Macbook Air
(carbon fiber! Like a Ferrari!), has better specs and an innovative design.
For one, it does not look like an Air--it does not taper to a point, which is
something that annoys me in both the Asus and the Air. It has an actually
minimalistic design and looks gorgeous in black.

However, the real innovation is in the "Power Media Dock" which--despite the
silly marketing name--is actually a brilliant piece of hardware. The laptop
itself does not have a DVD drive and uses an Intel HD 3000 graphics chipset.
However, it comes with a dock using Intel's LightPeak protocol that contains a
discrete ATI graphics card and DVD drive. This lets you have a meaty graphics
card at home and a mobile one on the go--very useful. I can also plug my extra
monitor and various peripherals into it so that I only need to plug one thing
into my laptop when I come home.

There are a couple of problems: the keyboard is "not brilliant" at best,
although I've gotten used to it. I've tried the Air's keyboard and, while it
was better, it was also not brilliant. Additionally, the Linux support on the
laptop is spotty. However, from what I've heard, this is also true of
MacBooks, so it isn't a differentiating factor.

The last issue, of course, is the cost--it is closest to a 15" MacBook pro
rather than the Air. However, for this, you get specs equal to a MacBook pro--
including either a 1600x900 or 1920x1080 resolution. Even the lower-resolution
screen--the one I have--looks fantastic.

Overall, the Vaio Z is exactly what the poster is deriding the Asus for not
being--innovative, capable and well-built. It is "radically better" than an
Air and the only really significant downside is that it's correspondingly more
expensive. It even has a rather good touchpad. Oh, and raid-0 ssds. Oh yeah. I
do not regret splurging on it at all.

~~~
nikcub
the best non-Mac laptops are the X300 thinkPad series. you probably have at
least one friend who is a secret fan of them.

~~~
masklinn
The best non-mac laptops are Panasonic's Toughbook C1 (inheritor of the T
series). They double up as weaponry, too.

~~~
tikhonj
Back in my high school robotics days, I did use a Toughbook and it was
actually very good. The ergonomics are not compromised on too much, and I
suspect there are _tools_ that are less durable than Toughbooks.

However, in my current incarnation as a dainty EECS major, the closest I get
to a machine shop is the CS building beside it, so a Toughbook--while
indubitably awesome--would be a bit of overkill.

Also, the tacit assumption that macs are the best laptop is, I think, flawed--
there's no question that they're _good_ , but there are plenty of cases where
there are better options...

~~~
masklinn
> However, in my current incarnation as a dainty EECS major, the closest I get
> to a machine shop is the CS building beside it, so a Toughbook--while
> indubitably awesome--would be a bit of overkill.

Beware, Panasonic has a bunch of different toughbooks series. I'd expect what
you used for robotics was a "fully rugged" series: looks like a small case and
can be rolled over by trucks (basically what they use in combat fields, truck
shops and whatnot).

Those are pretty much indestructible short of using explosives (and even
then), but they're big and heavy. Panasonic also has lines of wimpier
"business-rugged" laptops built merely to withstand being dropped from tables,
thrown against walls in fits of fury and having mugs of tea dropped on them.

They're also much more lightweight, and somewhat better looking. The one I was
talking about is the C1:
[http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/business-
rugged-...](http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/business-rugged-
toughbook-C1-convertible-tablet-pc.asp) which sports pretty standard laptop
look (apart from the trackpad) and while pretty solid (certified for 30"
drops, 6 ounce of liquid and 225 pounds of pressure) is nowhere near a fully-
rugged MIL-STD-810G-certified Toughbook 19 or Toughbook 31.

The C1 is for carrying your laptop a lot and not really caring if it happens
to fall or encounter bad juju.

~~~
tikhonj
Ah, you have a good point--the model I used was definitely one of the really
tough ones. It definitely had its own charm but was more reminiscent of a tool
box than a laptop (not to say that's a bad thing).

I suspect the one you're talking about is one of the few models with that sort
of hinge not to fall apart immediately--the others I've seen were very weak.

------
fuzionmonkey
The trackpad on MacBooks are the greatest thing. I got my first Mac about a
year ago and I'll never go back to a PC notebook simply because the trackpads
are always terrible.

Now whenever I use a PC trackpad, I'm astonished at just how bad they are,
even on premium PCs.

Why can't PC manufacturers get it right?

~~~
old-gregg
_> Why can't PC manufacturers get it right?_

They do get it right. In fact I find Macs very limiting since they lack this:
[http://notebook.pconline.com.cn/testing/0504/other/we1net_ib...](http://notebook.pconline.com.cn/testing/0504/other/we1net_ibmt43_12m.jpg)

A laptop without this is not worth buying. See? Who knew than another guy's
opinion can be so different...

I can type and operate "mouse" without moving my palms from the typing
position. I can do all three types of mouse clicks with my thumbs! Moreover,
Thinkpad's touchpad provides the most direct feel when moving the cursor [more
on this later]. Having the central "pin" for quick cursor jumps (while typing)
is absolutely invaluable.

Now, about the directness and precision of the touchpad. It's all about
drivers. Early white Macbooks had a terrible lag of cursor movement but Apple
fixed it later in software. My Thinkpad had somewhat inadequate "cursor feel"
under windows 7 which came with it, but under Ubuntu it has the most
satisfying "mouse" money can buy, called Ultranav.

Lenovo gets it right.

~~~
X-Istence
I've owned several laptops that only featured "the nipple" and I had one where
it every so often would get stuck in a single position whereby it would always
go off to the top left. This seemed to happen after having owned and used it
for a year or so.

I have also owned several laptops, both Windows and Mac OS X based and my
MBP's trackpad is far superior over any other trackpad I've used.

~~~
mrud
The best feature of the trackpoint is scrolling. You can scroll with it by
pressing the middle button and move the trackpoint around. I'm using this all
the time and i like it more than two finger scrolling.

------
zmmmmm
I find the snide and cynical tone of this kind of post sad. We seem to be at
the point where offering any competition to Apple in any category is tagged as
as a "rip off" when a short time ago it was just seen as healthy, even
essential competition. We the consumers are the beneficiaries of competition.
Why we (or this class of person) have chosen to deride it I don't understand.

~~~
gnaffle
I don't think so. It's a rip off when they copy everything, and copy it badly.

For instance, the keyboard design on the Mac has "separated" keys because it's
needed to give better structural support to the unibody frame. It's not just a
"cool design thing". Jony Ive talks about it here:
<http://youtu.be/t0fe800C2CU?t=2m46s>

Watching other companies copy this keyboard design in many ways resembles the
first people trying to fly by flapping their cloth covered wings. "It looks
exactly the same as what the bird does, dammit, why isn't it working?!"

Now, imagine how many different, _better_ products one could have if only more
companies had someone as obsessed with product design as Ive, and gave him
some authority.

What if some laptop manufacturer made a thinner, more sturdy ultraportable
design that for some reason didn't need this keyboard design? It wouldn't have
to look anything like the MBA, and it wouldn't be accused of being a rip-off.

~~~
dman
<http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/> \- designers at other companies
sweat the details too.

~~~
gnaffle
They sweat the details, but sadly not enough. I guess there might be some
great designers in many other companies. The big problem, of course, is that
they don't get the resources to do great work. That was true of the Apple pre
Steve Jobs as well.

Some companies are better than others, but I don't know of any that takes
attention to detail to the extremes that Apple do. The underside of the X1
very "clean" compared to other laptops:
[http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/img_lib/products...](http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/img_lib/products/splitter/notebooks/ThinkPad/x-Series/gallery/X1-13L.jpg)

But it wouldn't be good enough for Ive: <http://guide-
images.ifixit.net/igi/hQs2dpxbDLwekWTm.huge>

Of course, only design freaks worry about something like this. But it's
attention to detail that has gotten Apple to where it is today.

~~~
jarek
Yes, that is also why iPhones have no gratuitous text about things like where
they were _designed_ on their back.

~~~
gnaffle
Not sure what point you are trying to make. Do you disagree with what I said,
or do you think this text (or the Apple logo) is any proof that I'm wrong?

~~~
jarek
I'm implicitly wondering whether you think the back side of the iPhone is good
enough for Ive, why or why not, and what that implies about the amount of
details Apple "sweats."

It seems to me Apple "sweats" details until they don't, and the classification
under which the underside of the X1 wouldn't be good enough but the back side
of the iPhone - complete with FCC and CE logos - is seems rather arbitrary.

~~~
gnaffle
I'll try to explain the difference.

Without a battery cover to hide them, I think those logos need to be there. It
certainly seems like they have put thought into the placement, font size etc.
Given the constraints, the designers did the best they could.

The underside of the X1 has many "arbitrary" vent holes and screws. Why are
they placed like that? Well, probably because the internal components demanded
they be like that. The designers did the best they could given the
constraints.

Now, why were the internal components designed like that? Who knows. Could
they have been designed in another way to make the vent holes look more
symmetrical? Yes, but it would probably be very expensive. That's one of a ton
of decisions that are made, where someone at Apple said "screw it, lets spend
the money and do it the proper way".

So, to me, the X1 backside tells a deeper story about the design process of
the product, how engineers and designers worked together to create the
product, and how compromises were made. The iPhone backside only tells you
that some regulators wants their logos on products, and that some marketer
(maybe Steve Jobs) wanted you to feel good about owning a product assembled in
China.

~~~
jarek
To me, the iPhone backside suggests a compromise between aesthetic properties
of a "clean" backside and engineering, manufacturing cost, and user experience
properties of not having an ordinarily-operable battery cover, and is in fact
quite interesting to think about. Consider what would have had to change had
Apple wanted the logos off the backside but to still comply to relevant
regulations. Do you think someone hadn't said "screw it, lets spend the money
and do it the proper way" about an Apple-grade cover that would allow for the
logos to be hidden? Is it not interesting to think of why that decision was
not made?

~~~
gnaffle
I do agree it's interesting to think about. The decision to not have a battery
cover was a controversial one, and probably one that was not taken lightly.

I'd be wrong to say that this isn't a compromise, but they thought a clean and
thinner design and fewer parts was more important than keeping the logos off
the back and allowing the user to easily replace the battery.

If a battery cover was important to them, they would have spent the resources
to make it work. Likewise, if a clean backside was important to the Lenovo
designers, they would have fixed the ugly vent holes.

------
thomholwerda
The internals of the MacBook Air were designed by Intel, not by Apple. The
same goes for the internals of the current ultrabooks. It's basically a
reference design.

~~~
akavlie
Then why does the Asus version look so much cheaper?

That may explain the similar layout, honestly. But what strikes me the most
about those pics is that the Asus internals look like a cheap toy version of
the Air.

~~~
nikcub
because they want it to be cheaper. if they went with aluminium unibody it
would have ended up costing at retail more than the Air, which doesn't make
sense, does it?

~~~
thomholwerda
The Zenbooks ARE unibody aluminium.

~~~
nikcub
didn't see that - for the rest it comes down to wanting to be cheaper, still

the Asus and the Air probably do come off the same line

------
sgt
"It’s sad, really, that the state-of-the-art in the PC world is attempting to
copy Apple. Why isn’t Asus trying to blow the MacBook Air out of the water
with something radically better?".

I have an answer for this. I don't think they _can_ create something that
blows the MacBook Air out of the water. The bar has been set too high for the
PC manufacturers to properly compete in design, at least for the moment.

~~~
tikhonj
I really don't see why this is the case unless you have a very strong affinity
for Apple. As I said earlier, the Vaio Z is really a much better machine
overall, but has a price to match. The Lenovo X1 is also very good and I think
looks better as well.

Of course, I'm probably a little biased against Apple--although I seriously
considered getting an Air as my new laptop recently--and have found their
recent laptop designs a little garish. There is a gigantic, _light-up_ logo in
the back! My roommate had a Mac Book Pro last year and it would light up our
room if he used it at night. I favor a more minimalistic, muted aesthetic--if
I could, I'd get an all matte black laptop with no labels _at all_ (including
the keyboard), but I do not think anything like that exists. The new Vaio Z is
close though.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
_"I seriously considered getting an Air as my new laptop recently--and have
found their recent laptop designs a little garish. There is a gigantic, light-
up logo in the back!"_

That's not a recent design. Apple notebooks have had a lit logo on the back of
the lid for the last 13 years[1], starting with the PowerBook G3 Wall Street.

In any case, this 'problem' is easily remedied by covering it up with a
sticker. That's what production companies do[2] when they want to use a
notebook in a TV show or motion picture that doesn't have 'promotional
considerations'[3].

 _"if I could, I'd get an all matte black laptop with no labels at all"_

Apple's black MacBook[4] and Google's copy[5], the CR48, came close. Matte
black, barely any labels.

[1] [http://denniswever.dyndns.org/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2008/0...](http://denniswever.dyndns.org/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2008/09/IMG_0823.jpg)

[2] [http://www.geeksugar.com/TV-Shows-Cover-Up-Apple-Logo-Mac-
La...](http://www.geeksugar.com/TV-Shows-Cover-Up-Apple-Logo-Mac-Laptops-
Desktop-Computers-2835550)

[3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement>

[4]
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/MacBook.j...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/MacBook.jpg)

[5] <http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20025349-260.html>

~~~
tikhonj
I don't actually keep track of Apple's designs, so I guess you're right--
they've been garish all along. Covering the logo up with a sticker would make
sense if there were no alternatives without annoying logos; happily, there
are.

I have seen the black MacBooks, and they are better than the normal ones--
rather good looking, actually--but I'm not sure if they sell them any more and
I was looking exclusively at thin, light laptops akin to the Air. As far as I
know, matte black Airs do not exist.

I remember seeing the beta Chromebook and really liking the design;
unfortunately, the ones they actually sell now look different and too much
like normal netbooks.

Where both fall short is the keyboard--in a perfect world, there would be a
version with unlabeled keys. It would match my DasKeyboard :).

The Vaio Z I currently have also comes close. From my perspective when I'm
using it, it's actually almost exactly what I want (except for the annoyingly
omnipresent labeled keys). The back of the screen is a dark blue with a metal
(not lit) logo. I rather like that effect as well, although it doesn't quite
have the appeal of a completely blank laptop. Having a plastered-over Apple
logo wouldn't do either--all this would ruin the effect I want.

Of course, I recognize that the laptop I picture is incredibly silly and can
never be more than a _very_ niche product, but I am perfectly content being
silly.

------
thomasz
> What to Submit

> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes
> more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the
> answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

Could anyone explain why this is on the front page? The only piece of
information in this rant is that there is some new Asus notebook that looks
like a MB Air.

Apparently at least 75 people's intellectual curiosity is very easily
satisfied...

~~~
anemic
I was wondering the same thing.

To give my opinion on the matter I like the 13" Zenbook's 1600x900 resolution
better than MacBook Air's 1440x900. The 13" Macbook Pro has 1280x800 which is
useless to me.

When running Visual Studio or Eclipse I definitely like the extra 160 pixels
to have the sidebar wider without sacrificing space from the editor.

------
zobzu
One the one hand, Apple takes pride in copying and enhancing themselves (then
claim they did it but ok)

On the other hand there are radically differently designed ultrabooks, so
don't take Asus for the general norm?

Oh and as many on this page I'm typing from a Vaio Z21 running Linux and of
course, everything just works. Of course its way faster, yet lighter than the
MBA. And while you may hate Sony because "its not hype to have a Sony dude!"
its well built and works perfectly well, 20h a day so far.

------
eliben
I want a Macbook Air like laptop, but I don't want it so expensive and
designed for Mac OS. I want a cheaper machine running Ubuntu? What's so bad
about making this available?

On a different note, the attempt to show how the internal design of Asus
copies that of Apple is laughable. The PCBs look completely different, except
for maybe the main fan placement. But think about the space constraints in
such a device and it becomes obvious there aren't too many options!

------
moondowner
Not all 'ultrabooks' look like the MacBook Air, as the article states.

For example the Lenovo IdeaPad U300s:
[http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/8/2546923/lenovo-
ideapad-u30...](http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/8/2546923/lenovo-
ideapad-u300s-ultrabook-review) [a review from The Verge]

------
Newky
I know the ultrabook project is taking a lot of flak in a lot of area, but the
idea excites me. A lot of people would argue that cloning is not the way to
go, and even in the article the writer states that its a pity asus didn't try
to do something better than apple.

Why not make something equal first, we seen it with android, although I'm not
saying that Android is built as a clone of iOS, but they got feature parity
and then went onto more innovation.

Personally as someone who loves the look and feel of the MacBook, but who for
a number of reasons won't be purchasing one ( expensive for a college student,
not a fan of Mac OS). An entry into the market like this appeals to me
greatly. Keep it up Intel and partners!

~~~
tikhonj
I think I have to chime in to try and counteract Apple's marketing: the world
isn't actually divided into Mac/PC. Just because you buy Apple hardware--which
really isn't bad--doesn't mean you have to use their OS--which is. You could
install Windows or, even better, use Linux. Of course, if you're not into Mac
OS, you might as well get the Asus, which means its entry into the market
benefits you.Even some non-Apple clones are competition and make the market
much better for everyone.

As a college student, I think you'd get almost the same utility out of a nice
netbook running Linux as you would an Air unless you're a heavy gamer. I have
several friends who went that route and their uniformly happy and productive
(unlike some of the people I know using Mac OS, although that is more a
function of their not being CS people).

Of course, I say this almost hypocritically as a college who did splurge on a
laptop and doesn't regret it. I just had some money left over from an
internship--that's my excuse.

------
dotemacs
Interesting discussion. I had to buy a laptop recently and as much as I like
the look of Mac's Air it didn't have a right Control key. That just frustrated
me as I use Emacs and I rely on a working right Control key so much. I know
that there are tools to remap keys. Tried various ones, but at the end of the
day I was trying to make Mac act as X Windows and it just wasn not smooth. So
I bought Samsung's 900 3XA. Just as light, has the right Control key and all
of the hardware components are supported with the latest FreeBSD 9.

------
joshu
Apple actually acquired FingerWorks, which made flat touchpad keyboards. The
quality is much higher than what most companies are able to use (Synaptics or
whatever?)

------
kayoone
Apples trackpads really are one of the main selling points for me. I got my
first Macbook Pro in 2009, liked it, got used to it but somehow wanted to go
back to a rigid business laptop where i dont have the fear of scratching it
etc. So i sold the MBP and got a Dell Latitude only do realize how much of a
difference the trackpad on a MBP makes and how much i got used to its
awesomeness. Today i use a MBP again ;)

------
imran
No doubt apple (read steve jobs) has taken inspiration from a lot of products
and features. But apple is more onto tweaking and making it better with even
effort on design and user friendliness. Everyone knew touch but apple made it
useable. Take an idea or inspiration and tweak it to perfection so it becomes
revolutionary and apple become genius! Think you can do it?

------
reidbradford
As an owner of one of Asus's early precursors to the Ultrabook which also has
serious trackpad problems (UL30VT), this makes me wonder how long Asus is
going to go without correcting these basic problems.

Until then the Samsung Series 9 is probably a better choice.

------
ajanuary
The trackpad on a Windows Air-style laptop could be a big win. As amazing as
the Macbook trackpad is on OS X, it's still incredibly flaky on Windows.

------
SandB0x
Look at how many models Asus makes:
<http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/AllProducts/> . Around 55 distinct designs.

Look at how many models Apple makes: <http://www.apple.com/why-mac/compare/> .
Five distinct designs.

True attention to detail is surely impossible with Asus' scattergun approach.

------
ssn
I view this as a positive thing -- imitating the best seems an excellent
approach. Inovation comes next.

------
atarian
I chuckled at the URL. I wonder if the misspelling was deliberate.

------
dman
Good artists copy, great artists steal

~~~
demallien
Expanding on this, the idea is that a great artist takes someone else's idea,
but executes it so much better that the idea ends up being associated with the
great artist, not the original inventor of the idea. The iPod versus other mp3
players is a good example.

In this case, it suffices to look at the title of the article - the Asus is
being seen as a copy of the MacBook Air, and _not_ the definitive form of
Ultrabook that all other makers are going to try to copy. If they had
succeeded in stealing the idea, the article would have been talking about how
the Asus was going to be the benchmark all other Ultrabooks were going to be
judged against, and it would have highlighted how the Asus had filled in the
weaknesses of the current champion, which is the MacBook Air.

Clearly a case of copying.

------
icarus_drowning
What is particularly sad here is that Apple responds to market pressures just
like any other company: when faced with serious challengers, they are forced
to innovate and improve.

When faced with a $300 million dollar movement to basically rip-off their
product? I doubt they'll move nearly as quickly.

~~~
forgottenpaswrd
"What is particularly sad here is that Apple responds to market pressures just
like any other company: when faced with serious challengers, they are forced
to innovate and improve."

What made Apple Apple until recently was an intrinsic force(from within the
company) to innovate an improve(a perfectionist and angry force that will
insult and denigrate you if she did not wanted what you made, that will demand
the best of you whenever the company is well or not).

In life you don't have to wait for others to force you when you could force
yourself for your best. E.g students that choose careers their selves (even
hard ones) are way happier than those that let others to decide for them.

"I doubt they'll move nearly as quickly."

Your opinion is based on a prejudice "Apple responds to market pressures just
like any other company".

Apple had made very good products without "market pressure" that comes when
things go bad, sales and. stock go down. The last decade had no pressure on
Apple so your prejudice is not true.

~~~
icarus_drowning
Eh, I'd argue it responds much more aggressively and quickly when it has
serious competition. Note that I didn't say Apple _doesn't innovate_ when it
doesn't have competition, I said it _innovates more_ when it responds to
market pressure, which, I think, shouldn't be controversial. Why exactly that
statement is controversial is perplexing.

