
Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday - leptoniscool
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/11/32-percent-of-workers-run-out-of-cash-before-payday.html
======
mattbillenstein
It's amazing to me how people well above the poverty line find a way to spend
it all -- a house they can't afford, cars they can't afford, student loans to
the tune of hundreds of thousands... It's a damn shame financial skills are
not taught in this country.

~~~
hurricanetc
Basic math and arithmetic are taught. We give people rope and if they hang
themselves with it that’s on them.

~~~
mattbillenstein
Incorrect - 30% of households don't live paycheck to paycheck because "math
and arthmetic are taught" \-- basic financial literacy isn't even taught at
the college level which leads many into school loans they will have a very
hard time paying back.

~~~
hurricanetc
Financial literacy is arithmetic and basic math. Addition of pay, subtraction
of monthly expenses. Interest is not difficult to calculate, either.

We give everyone the tools they need. If they are still incompetent that is on
them.

You have to take an online course about understanding student loans and
interest before you can accept a federal loan. The idea that students don’t
know what they are getting into is absurd.

~~~
malandrew
I can't help but wonder if everyone downvoting people preaching personal
responsibility are also part of the problem. As a society today (in America at
least), we're increasingly condemning those preaching personal responsibility
in almost every venue, or at least every liberal venue. There's still some
push for personal responsibility amongst conservatives.

In a way, this appears to be a result of recency bias and our collective
forgetting that preaching personal responsibility was once the norm in western
societies. While I'm an atheist myself, long before there was any government
social safety net, the church provided this safety net, but when it did, that
safety net came with the expectation of learning lessons like "God helps those
that help themselves".

As a society, yes it's important to have empathy for other who have made
mistakes. Even Judeo-Christian religion makes room for this lesson through
stories like the prodigal son. But you can't just have empathy without
accountability unless you're willing to accept that more people will become a
burden on the productive than if you have a culture of accountability.

You've got to have a balance between both empathy and accountability and
squelching voices promoting accountability, but downvoting for example, throws
this balance out of whack.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
>As a society today

This isn't new, most religions have something to say about usary. If anything
has changed it's the increase in media manipulation, marketing and easy
credit. My parents didn't have a credit card because they didn't exist at that
time.

At an individual level if you are over spending then yes, sort it out. But
when half the population can't deal with a financial emergency then the
problem is clearly systemic.

------
plastic_teeth
This shows financial education is needed, but more important it shows that the
basic income is too low for the temptations available. In my opinion there are
way too many temptations and people aren't thought how to resist them. When I
say temptations I'm referring to gadgets, travelling, fashion. Everybody wants
to be part of the newest trends and that's the main issue. Also, nobody wants
to live in a studio or with a roommate up until 35, but I feel like a house
isn't a priority anymore.

~~~
trixie_
is 200k too low? The data clearly shows the problem is mostly income agnostic.

------
heartbeats
— Will, did you really make two and a half million last year?

— Yeah, sure.

— How did you spend it all?

— It goes quite quickly. You know, you learn to spend what's in your pocket.

— Two and a half million goes quickly?

— All right, let's see. So the taxman takes half up front, so you're left with
one and a quarter. My mortgage takes another 300 grand. I send 150 home for my
parents, you know, keep 'em going. So what's that?

— 800?

— All right, 800. Spent 150 on a car. About 75 on restaurants. Probably 50 on
clothes. I put 400 away for a rainy day.

— That's smart.

— Yeah, as it turns out, 'cause it looks like the storm's coming.

— You still got 125.

— Yeah, well I did spend 76,520 dollars on hookers, booze and dancers. But
mainly hookers.

— 76,5?

— I was a little shocked initially, but then I realized I could claim most of
it back as entertainment. It's true!

(Margin Call, 2011)

~~~
malandrew
While this story might be about someone making 2.5 million. It's as relevant
for people making $200k or even $50k. You learn to spend what's in your
pocket.

~~~
heartbeats
"Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law)

------
nesky
Will teaching basic financial skills in school actually help? We teach basic
health skills like nutrition and exercise but look at America as a whole,
we're unhealthier than ever yet we still teach health in school. We can teach
basic financial literacy but I don't think by and large it'll change anything.

~~~
malandrew
It boils down to a common mistake: knowledge != habits

You can teach people things, but if they don't actually apply them and make
them habits, then no benefit is gained from that knowledge.

What's worse is we now have a body positivity movement now de-emphasizing
classes like physical education that helps form those habits and is part of
having a balanced life. Besides physical education, we have de-emphasized home
economics as well, which is also a class where one learns how to prepare meals
at home, which is another key component of being able to make healthy
affordable meals.

Coursework needs to move on from theory and into the realm of practice. Maybe
we should require students to maintain a budget as part of passing each grade.
What did you earn? How did you spend it? What did you do to increase the
amount you earn and what did you do to increase the amount you spend. It
wouldn't be a bad idea to have students maintain bank accounts and finances as
part of their basic education. It's not that you can't spend it or make unwise
investments, but doing so should require thoughtful reflection put down into
words on paper and the idea that you need to demonstrate that you've learned
something when you make a mistake of spending money on something you shouldn't
have or when you make an unwise investment that doesn't produce returns.

------
newlikeice
Practical Advise. If this is you, you should ___________ to start building
your income and and a buffer zone? I cannot seriously answer this question.

~~~
gshdg
Make a budget.

------
downerending
Not sure why heartbeats' comment was flagged, but if you haven't seen it, you
should definitely watch Margin Call (the movie).

------
HocusLocus
[Here's some free advice for you that only applies to me]

