
A New Accent Is Developing in Southwest Kansas - DoreenMichele
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/new-accent-liberal-kansas
======
KAMSPioneer
Whoa, I never thought an article about Liberal would be on HN. I'm a Liberal,
KS resident since about 2005, and now that I think about it...people here do
have a kind of unique accent, but I don't know if it's really as striking as
the article makes it out to be. I don't know, maybe I've just gotten used to
it.

I was shocked when I opened the article and saw our welcome sign. Hahaha

~~~
CodeCube
fwiw, I grew up in Miami, and I 100% thought that me and my friends did not
have an accent of any kind whatsoever ... because for whatever reason, there
weren't really a lot of people born and raised in miami in popular media (at
least that I was aware of, days before Pitbull, etc).

Well, I moved away to central florida (very different demographics) at 17 ...
and it wasn't until a few years later when I went back to visit, that I
realized just how distinct (to my ears at least) my friends sounded. Nowadays,
I can hear someone start to speak, and within a few minutes of listening can
tell that they were raised in Miami. It's a few subtle clues that thus far
have almost always been right

~~~
oldcynic
> and I 100% thought that me and my friends did not have an accent of any kind
> whatsoever

I suspect everyone thinks that. It's all those people from other parts of the
world/country that have accents. :)

~~~
rconti
I'm 37 and I'm still perplexed that it rains some places in the summer.

~~~
pests
Here I am from Michigan thinking "When else would it rain?!?!"

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exabrial
Ah, an article about my home state. It's worth pointing out how isolated this
town is... Interstate doesn't even run through that part of the state, and the
nearest 'big city' is hours away.

~~~
baxtr
Isolation is probably an important factor for the development of an accent

~~~
arethuza
I grew up in a small fishing village in the north of Scotland - an area
notorious for its _very_ strong accents (to the point of some documentaries
filmed locally having to be subtitled in English!).

However, people who lived on farms spoke with a noticeably different accent
(at least to the ears of locals) - even though they might be physically on a
kilometer or two from the nearest village.

NB This was in the 70s - I suspect none of these communities are quite as
insular as they used to be.

~~~
ilamont
The movie "Hot Fuzz" played up variations in regional accents in England.
There's a scene (1) where the London cop (Simon Pegg) has to use two rural
cops in order to interpret the dialect of an old farmer.

1\. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-
LZvOTdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-LZvOTdw)

~~~
jdietrich
That scene is only a slight exaggeration. Rural West Country accents can be
almost totally unintelligible to users of standard English.

[https://youtu.be/WjTIFkWJctY?t=40s](https://youtu.be/WjTIFkWJctY?t=40s)

~~~
ilamont
Wow. There's a linked video of farmers from Kerry, Ireland as well. I can't
understand the first one, the second just barely.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsUvcjk8J5c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsUvcjk8J5c)

~~~
toomanybeersies
Haha, I ran into a couple of Irish lads in a club in the weekend.

I know it sounds like a stereotype, but with a few pints down them I swear I
couldn't understand a thing they said when they were talking to each other. I
had to check they weren't speaking Gaelic or something.

You definitely get used to accents quickly though. After a couple of weeks of
hanging out with a bunch of Scottish people, I could understand Glasgow patter
like it was normal English.

------
colordrops
Interesting. The "spanish influenced" accent described in the video sounds
like standard English in southern california.

~~~
baxtr
Yeah, I get the feeling they make a big fuzz out of it. In the video she’s
mentioning the different ways an “a” is pronounced. If you look at England,
every other towns has a different accent (that’s what I’ve heard)

[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/explore/what-is-the-
differ...](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/explore/what-is-the-difference-
between-dialect-and-accent/)

~~~
gadders
I'd say the rate at which accents change here as you move is probably higher
than the US due to the smaller size of the British Isles. You can see a few
videos like this that demonstrate it:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mzWkuOxz8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mzWkuOxz8)

------
joshuaheard
As someone who grew up in Southern California and the "surfer" and "valley
girl" cultures and dialects, I was hoping this article would provide some
insight into the formation of such things. However, the biggest takeaway
seemed to be the surprise that this was happening in the middle of Kansas. It
was interesting that the Hispanic population quadrupled there recently, but no
conclusions were drawn by the author.

------
danielhanlon
Strange-the pronunciation changes that she demonstrates with "hand" seem to be
bringing the accent closer to RP English!

~~~
petecox
Yes, I noticed the sounds in hat and hand still weren't identical but perhaps
she's exaggerating an 'RP-like' sound to emphasize the distinction with
general nasalized American English.

~~~
workinthehead
It's not general. It's purely a midwestern phenomenon.

------
peterburkimsher
Dialects are interesting. While it's still mutually intelligible, it's an
accent. I wonder whether the Liberal accent will develop into a separate
language like Louisiana Creole?

I made some graphs about the status of languages in
Windows/macOS/Ubuntu/Google Translate/Facebook/Wikipedia/IB, and included a
section about dialects of Chinese.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17344466](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17344466)

------
gammarator
The visual style of this map is overwhelming, but it's a great map of US
dialects with links to native speakers:
[http://aschmann.net/AmEng/](http://aschmann.net/AmEng/)

see also [https://www.daredictionary.com/](https://www.daredictionary.com/)

------
rnernento
Is there any audio of people speaking with the accent available somewhere?

~~~
saudioger
Linked in the body of the article, it's a very subtle variation

------
atomicUpdate
> “But we would find them not only among the Latinx youth but also among many
> of the white youth as well. It seems like these variants—because Liberal is
> now a Latinx-majority community—are just becoming the way this community
> sounds.”

People actually use "Latinx"? Up until now I'd only seen that in discussions
about it.

~~~
dmix
I was surprised to see that as well. I thought it was for particular group,
not as a replacement for 'Latinos'.

Similar to people getting upset at using "guys" which the dictionary defines
as referencing all genders, and only male when used as "guy". Latinos makes
perfect common sense in the same way.

This seems like a bit of activism by the author rather than entirely
necessary, especially considering it links to an article about "Gender
Inclusivity" from within an article about Kansas accents... Unless I missed
the notice that using "Latino-majority community" is no longer correct?

~~~
saudioger
Is using "guys" not plainly kind of dumb though? Once someone pointed it out
to me, I can't help but feel foolish using it to describe a group of women.

Conversely, if you call a group of men "ladies" you're being playfully
derisive...

~~~
toomanybeersies
In romance languages (French, Spanish, Italian...) it's considered standard
for a collective group of males and females to be referred to by the male
pronoun. A group of exclusively females gets referred to with a female
pronoun.

I guess the same applies to "guys".

------
AdamM12
Is it an old wives' tale that east coast news stations send reporters with
heavy accents to midwest stations to unlearn them?

------
toomanybeersies
Does anyone else find the whole 'Latinx' thing nonsensical?

I understand the reasoning, it's about being gender neutral. But why don't
they just knock the vowel off the end and just say 'Latin'?

~~~
TheCapeGreek
I agree it is nonsensical, but I'd rather it stay as it used to be.

Through the usual meme grapevine I saw a tumblr post on reddit about this.
Being gender neutral/genderless in this case is also actively ignoring Spanish
linguistics (and arguably culture). Spanish is a gendered language like many
others. It's not some patriarchal conspiracy to say Latino instead of Latina
or vice versa, it's just how the language works. If I remember correctly as
well, the gender neutral form would still be Latino.

Granted, they're being referred to through English here, which one could argue
could benefit from just being 'Latin' (confusion between actual Latin aside).
I'm of the opinion to keep loan words as close to the original as possible.
Language changes over time but some words are still explicitly from elsewhere.
So, keep it as Latino/Latina.

~~~
jakelazaroff
_> Being gender neutral/genderless in this case is also actively ignoring
Spanish linguistics (and arguably culture)._

That argument that conflates the Spanish language and Latin American culture
(which is not homogenous). Portuguese actually edges out Spanish in terms of
European languages in South America, and there are hundreds of indigenous
languages spoken there [1]. It's an appeal to the purity of a culture that is
itself a product of colonialism.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_America)

~~~
flyingfences
> Portuguese actually edges out Spanish in terms of European languages in
> South America

We're not in South America, though. In the context of this article, we're
talking about a town in the USA with a large number of immigrants from Latin
America as a whole, most of whom are Hispanic and comparatively few of whom
are Brazilian.

~~~
jakelazaroff
This subthread is an aside on the term "Latinx" in general, outside the
context of this article. I'm specifically responding to the meme described by
the GP, which ostensibly was not created in response to this article but to
address general usage of the term "Latinx".

~~~
flyingfences
> but to address general usage of the term "Latinx"

Which, again, in English, is usually used when discussing immigrants, most of
whom are Hispanic.

~~~
jakelazaroff
It sometimes refers to people who happen to be immigrants, but it's not often
used in the context of a discussion involving immigration. Broadly, it refers
to people and culture originating in Latin America. Many people use it to
self-identify.

------
mintplant
> Ironically, he adds, it’s a bit of an exclusive phrase itself: “It’s very
> rarely that I find someone from outside of Liberal using TFTI.”

What? A simple web search will show this is quite common.

~~~
code_duck
I think he means used in spoken communications.

~~~
mintplant
It's common in spoken communications among my friends here in California (both
NorCal and SoCal), with the same meaning and connotation as cited in the
article.

~~~
code_duck
It seems to me that everything in the article probably is. I suspected the
author of provinciality, but according to her bio, she is very well-traveled.

------
huangbong
Everyone and their mother uses TFTI. This is satire right?

~~~
drchickensalad
I've been on the internet for 6+ hours a day for the past 15 years and I have
literally never seen it.

~~~
freehunter
First I've heard of it too. The article says "thanks for the invite" but I
googled it and the top Google result says "thanks for the info", so it doesn't
seem like people agree on what it means.

Are we sure people in Liberal aren't saying it ironically? Most people who
pronounce Internet slang acronyms IRL are doing it ironically and the fad
wears off quickly.

~~~
KAMSPioneer
I'm from Liberal. I've never heard a person here (or anywhere) use the
pronunciation "tifty" in any context, but I imagine you're right -- I'm sure
plenty use the phrase ironically.

I've seen the initialism TFTI used in earnest, but I would consider the usage
that the article refers to as uncommon at best.

