
Homemade IC (2018) - modinfo
http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-ic/
======
baybal2
Leaving it here: [https://libresilicon.com](https://libresilicon.com)

A guy in HK is making a 1um fab with own process and open tooling.

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squarefoot
Freaking cool! 1um might seem a lot for today industry standards if we think
modern processors and peripherals, still more than adequate for analog stuff
(opamps, regulators, matched transistor pairs, VCOs and VCAs, simple glue
logic etc.).

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jimktrains2
What was the mask size for the original z80, 6502, and 8080?

~~~
kjs3
Mask size or fabrication geometry size? I'm guessing you mean the latter. It
depends on the generation of these chips (moving to a smaller process) but I
know the 6502 used a 10 um process at introduction, and I think the 8080 used
a 5 or 6 um process. Don't know about the Z80.

For comparison, the 80386 was fabricated with a 1um process.

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sanxiyn
HN discussion when this was first posted:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16955549](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16955549)

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ZoomStop
[https://web.archive.org/web/20191013094507/http://sam.zeloof...](https://web.archive.org/web/20191013094507/http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-
ic/)

In case anyone else is getting slow response times loading.

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pstuart
No backyard RISC-V foundries, yet!

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phkahler
That will take something like 20000 transistors.

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ofcourseianal
0 0 0

Here, I think you dropped a few zeroes.

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jabl
The Pulp project claims to have designed a RV32E core in 12 kGE. Which, I
believe, implies around 48k transistors with CMOS logic.

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agumonkey
Anything similar for homemade LEDs ? (I only found one hackaday article)

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shakna
I assume you mean this [0] hackaday?

There's plenty of similar guides to making Silicon Carbide LEDs. [1][2] It's
basically recreating Round's discovery.

[0] [https://hackaday.com/2012/06/05/homemade-silicon-carbide-
led...](https://hackaday.com/2012/06/05/homemade-silicon-carbide-led/)

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHjPCzNxb8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHjPCzNxb8)

[2]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20170704125554/http://www.dlip.d...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170704125554/http://www.dlip.de/?p=99)

~~~
agumonkey
Thanks a lot

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netfl0
How far away are we from printing something like this at home?

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jononor
What you mean "printing"? From the article: There are 66 individual
fabrication steps to make this chip and it takes approximately 12 hours for a
full run. Automate all 66 fabrication steps into a fully integrated device is
not exactly trivial.

~~~
qaute
Lots more detail for the uninitiated:

The most complex parts of phones and computers (e.g., the CPU) are integrated
circuits (ICs)[0], which are (nowadays) billions of nanometer-sized
transistors on top of a piece of silicon. The way these are made is arguably
the most complex, high precision manufacturing process in the world, and is
usually done in multi-billion-dollar "fabs" (fabrication plant) by huge
companies (e.g., Intel).

Even the most basic IC fabrication, like in the article, absolutely requires
maybe ~5-10 complex tools (furnace, sputterer, etc; $1000-$10k each at current
eBay prices and very low quality, if you know how to rebuild/fix all of them)
and a host of supporting equipment (fume hood for seriously dangerous[1]
chemical work, etc). To get reasonable results, you also need to understand
the device physics and then test multiple times to get the process right. I
have some serious respect for Sam Zeloof of the article for getting this to
work: it's at least an order of magnitude more difficult than other home
manufacturing (3D printing, woodworking, welding, sewing...), even if you're
already an industry expert. And his device used 6 transistors; you'd need to
get the transistor manufacturing reliability up significantly to make a useful
microprocessor (instead of small analog circuits), which probably starts at
several thousand transistors [2].

If (GP post) you want an automated device that makes an IC for you given a
digital design file, well, hm. The closest things we have today are companies
that manage and run the equipment for you (fabless semiconductor companies
(Qualcom, AMD...[3]) give their chip designs to, e.g., TSMC to manufacture).
Academic researchers often send parts in together to reduce costs[4], in which
case you could get tens of identical (reasonably simple) chips for several
thousand dollars. Someone linked to [5], which looks like an attempt at a more
open, hobbyist-friendly version of the same thing. I did run across [6] once,
which _does_ seem to be attempting to make an easier to use, very small,
automated system. I've no idea what their status is.

A desktop device as simple to use as a 3D printer is barely even on the
conceptual possibility level at the moment, and then only when people start
talking sci-fi self-assembly and molecular nanomanufacturing and a century of
R&D.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit)
[1] [http://lnf-wiki.eecs.umich.edu/wiki/Piranha_Etch](http://lnf-
wiki.eecs.umich.edu/wiki/Piranha_Etch) [2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count)
[3]
[https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/manufacturin...](https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/manufacturing/top-25-fabless-
companies-2010-01/) [4] [https://www.mosis.com/what-is-
mosis](https://www.mosis.com/what-is-mosis) [5]
[https://libresilicon.com/](https://libresilicon.com/) [6]
[https://www.minimalfab.com/en/](https://www.minimalfab.com/en/)

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netfl0
Thanks for the detailed response.

