
Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus - ninninhall
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/airbnb-s-loss-nearly-doubles-in-fourth-quarter-before-virus-hit
======
3pt14159
I have a friend who got into hosting AirBnbs pretty early. Bought a 4 unit
place in a rough part of Toronto that was still pretty close to downtown and
lived in one of the units while he AirBnbed out the other three. Occasionally
he'd go on a trip and AirBnb out his own unit.

It was enough money for him to cover his mortgage and not have to work if he
watched his spending. He's bleeding money now and it started about two months
ago. This virus is going to hammer leveraged AirBnb hosts for a while and I
think we'll start to see a wave of AirBnb bankruptcies.

~~~
fbonetti
That’s basically what I’m doing, except with a 3 unit building in Michigan. In
an average month, the two AirBnB units bring in 3-4x the mortgage in revenue.
Not enough to retire of course, but it’s a nice side hustle.

That being said, our bookings been hit pretty hard by the coronavirus. We’ve
hade multiple cancellations recently, and the month of April is basically wide
open. We usually have an occupancy rate for 85%. I think we’ll be lucky to
have 50% of the next couple months.

~~~
amiga_500
Paying off two dwellings at little effort is a nice "side hustle". No wonder
nobody in the west is working! Meanwhile the Fed pumps more money to protect
banks from rentiers blowing up, while taxes go unpaid and hospitals are
underfunded.

~~~
nostrebored
Why are you mad about buildings being used at over 85% occupancy on average?

~~~
unlinked_dll
Short term rentals to tourists isn't occupancy, it's occupation. Sorry for the
hyperbole I just thought that was good wordplay.

These rentals drive up rents for the people in the community and remove
housing stock from the market, making it more expensive and less likely for
people to purchase their home and build equity. Rent is non recoverable unlike
a mortgage, even if you ultimately take a loss.

Flooding the housing market with units for sale at a bargain would be great
for common people trying to build wealth.

~~~
austhrow743
Seeing housing as a vehicle for wealth building is what leads to policies that
increase or maintain housing prices. People don't need to put their money in
to housing to build equity, they can just build equity. You know, save. Put it
in diversified assets not chuck it all in to one asset and then leverage debt
to chuck even more in to that asset.

Home ownership is how the system keeps the common man down. It should
absolutely not be championed in his favour.

~~~
unlinked_dll
As a home buyer you aren't making the choice between a diversified set of
assets without leverage and one highly leveraged asset. You're spending money
for another month of shelter while making the decision to keep it when you've
paid for it long enough.

A lot of people would love to pump their savings into a diverse portfolio with
little debt. Unfortunately we still have to pay rent. Personally if I do the
math on it, putting savings into equities to save up for a 20% down payment on
a mortgage is by far the most sound plan I can have because it optimizes my
returns for my income.

And even without talking about returns, in terms of utility I don't want to
raise a family in my expensive and tiny apartment - basically I don't want to
save up so I can buy a nice house when I retire, I want to buy a nice house to
build my life in then sell it when I retire. You've got the incentives
completely flipped in my opinion.

------
alexandec
I've had bad experiences with multiple Airbnbs including:

    
    
      - showing up at night with the key not in the agreed location, and not being able to contact the owner until the next day
      - showing up and someone else was already in the unit
      - a webcam was plugged in and placed on the bedside table with no warning
      - conditions in the unit were significantly worse than those shown in the photos
    

All these listings had great reviews. Airbnb needs to make some real changes
or they will lose further trust among customers.

~~~
vizzah
Airbnb cheats with bad reviews, so their properties look more attractive.

I came to a rental apartment which was trashed and uninhabitable and left it
after a tiring few hours on the phone with Airbnb to convince them not to
charge me and finding a place to stay (hotel) in the meantime (They also tried
to find a 'suitable' replacement but nothing was comparable).

The host left me a negative review complaining 'I didn't want to vacate the
apartment' (!). I was shocked that the host received invitation to write a
review on a guest who hasn't stayed.

After numerous emails with Airbnb they confirmed that the host is able to
leave reviews in all cases, _as well as a guest_ , but they deliberately
didn't e-mail me an invitation. They claimed they did, but after further
investigations I found a proof this was deliberate omittance.

~~~
alexandec
I had an experience where an Airbnb host canceled on me at the last minute
because they "forgot" they had double-booked the apartment on a competing
service. I was unable to leave a bad review because I had not stayed in the
apartment. I contacted Airbnb and they confirmed that this is their policy.
They claimed an automated message would appear on the listing indicating the
host's cancellation -- but it never did.

~~~
CGamesPlay
I do see these “automated reviews” left all the time in properties I’m looking
to stay at. In this part of the world it’s quite common for that sort of
accident to happen.

~~~
blaser-waffle
Accident? More like deliberate fraud

------
ohbleek
AirBnB failed. I don't even check it out anymore when I travel because a hotel
typically costs about the same due to the fees charged by the hosts. I would
choose a hotel over AirBnB until the price difference is 15-20% lower in favor
of AirBnB because there are too many unknowns with AirBnB and the novelty has
worn off entirely. Plus since so many listings are owned by some company or
person renting out multiple locations, whats the difference any more?

~~~
exhilaration
What AirBnB has over hotels is locations inside neighborhoods. Take Montreal
for example, the hotels are clustered downtown, which is fine if that's what
you're looking for. But by staying in an AirBnB you get a local experience, in
a local neighborhood. It's like this all over the world.

~~~
teej
This is exactly what’s terrible about Airbnb. A listing in a residential
neighborhood creates negative externalities on that community.

~~~
drstewart
That's a failure of urban planning, not Airbnb.

~~~
fsh
The city probably didn't plan that someone puts a hotel in the middle of a
residential area. This is exactly why airbnb hosts tend to get into legal
trouble in some countries.

------
cgurke
In Croatia and a few other places, there are a lot of fake Airbnb listings.
You can instant book them but they are not available and the host never
answers. I once was stranded in a really dark and empty area of town because
of this. The host provided a fake number even...

These fake hosts are still active, I can see the green dot indicating they are
online if I look into the chat logs.

Airbnb did not pay for the hotel I had to book instead. I also couldn't use
the meagre reimbursement I got on top of the full refund (at least...) because
it was only valid for a month and I wasn't travelling at that time.

I still like the privacy and cooking my own food, but sometimes it's really
terrible.

~~~
thedance
One day I was just getting drunk with a pal in Istanbul and we decided to see
if we could get an Airbnb ... in Mogadishu. Sure enough there was one, a real
nice looking place listed dirt-cheap by a new account that seemed to be based
in Seychelles. Totally above board, I'm sure.

Croatia is not Somalia, but it doesn't exactly scream "rule of law", either.
Airbnb is not inherently safe so should only be used in countries where nobody
would even think of breaking a law, like Switzerland or something. I have
reservations about using it in America even.

~~~
jdm2212
I spent a week in an Airbnb near Dubrovnik, Croatia and it seemed like a
normal, if slightly touristy European city in pretty much every way. And the
Airbnb was really nice, too.

Not sure where you're getting this stuff about "doesn't exactly scream 'rule
of law'".

~~~
thedance
Croatia is a moderately corrupt mafia state. My personal view on this was
formed when a Croatian coast guard officer demanded a bribe from me. But also
[https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept...](https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017)

~~~
allarm
And still, Dubrovnik is safer than SF. I stayed close to Tenderloin there
once, unforgettable.

------
southphillyman
I have started using hotels more lately after almost exclusively booking with
airbnb for several years. 1 thing that I really appreciate about Airbnb still
is that it allows you to stay in areas that usually don't have a lot of
hotels, like Manhattan Beach CA or some other mostly residential area that
also makes sense for tourist to stay. I would hate for them to fail and lose
those options on a large scale

~~~
notyourwork
I stopped because the quality went way down. I used to get real hosts and now
it’s mass scaled corporate rentals without a front desk to go talk to. Hotels
at least have a front desk to go get help from and they are consistent in
quality.

~~~
southphillyman
Yup, this is why I'm using hotels more now. Too many random problems, hosts
who are in another country when I'm trying to solve issues, and accommodations
that are often inconsistent with what was portrayed in the listing.

With all of these factors I really need a good deal for it to be worth the
hassle

------
anigbrowl
They're doomed, and the collapse in travel and discretionary spending could
take a lot of property owners down with it. On the plus side this might clear
a lot of greed out of the property market, allow prices to return to a saner
median, and relieve the housing shortage that obtains in many places.

~~~
blaser-waffle
I don't think they're doomed. COVID-19 is a big deal, but eventually it will
pass, people will resume travel, and people will get back to work; the world
eventually resumed after the Black Plague and the Spanish Flu, and this isn't
anywhere near as bad.

Like, I hope the AirBnB trend slows down greatly for all of the reasons you
listed, but they exist because people don't have the need or ability to pay
for more expensive, temporary lodging.

------
danielovichdk
My experience with AirBnb has been good but often I feel I miss something. If
possible I always almost choose a hotel, because it seems cleaner, service
oriented, often has breakfast and a place to have a drink or a coffee.

There are places that is more suitable for renting a private place, but in
where there are tourists there are often better offers at hotels.

~~~
ThePhysicist
In the beginning it was nice, you could actually meet interesting people. Now
it mostly feels anonymous and impersonal, often you end up sharing an
apartment with two or three other tenants and the landlord doesn’t even show
up once. I prefer hotels now, price-wise the difference to AirBnB isn’t very
large.

~~~
fellowniusmonk
In Austin, TX Airbnb incontrovertibly revealed that hotel room volume was
insufficient for demand and was suppressing tourism and its inflow of outside
cash.

The common complaint about insufficient & overpriced hotels stopped being
theory and was proved out by an elastic federated supply that _at least
initially_ put more money in the hands of private parties.

High cost of entry for building hotels in the urban core & decrepit central
planning suppressed the cities growth for years. At first hotel companies and
their "advocates" complained, but then after they realized it wasn't going to
go away, the cranes showed up and started addressing the real problem.

I don't know if Airbnb will be forever, but things like it should at least be
cyclically introduced to reveal infrastructure and planning failures, then
local private parties can solve the problem and profit while planning
commissions try to keep up.

------
coleifer
The original idea was great, but people have gamed it so hard that it's
falling apart because of lack of trust (in my opinion).

------
baby
I'll preface this by saying that AirBnb lies about its prices/night, and that
really suck.

Having said that, I really really don't understand the other criticisms
against AirBnb here. I travel a lot, for leisure and work, and I constantly
stay at AirBnbs and have been for years.

Here is how it compares with hotels for me:

* I usually can't remember any hotel room I've stayed at (unless it's the marina bay sands), whereas I remember every single AirBnB I've stayed at.

* When I stay in an airbnb for tourism, I feel like I lived a bit in the city, never get that feeling with a hotel.

* Pick up never has lines, and is often pretty straight forward (they have more and more of these locks for self-checkin)

* The location is always better for the price, I've heard people saying otherwise, but I've travelled all over the world with AirBnB and always found a better place for cheaper. The bay area was pretty hard, but I switched to a room at someone's place (instead of the whole place) and I ended up staying in insanely nice places. (I definitely recommend trying this, it's always much nicer and I seldom run into the people living there.)

* AirBnBs have a kitchen

* I overall find hotels to be dirty. There's something about them that I really don't like. Unless the hotel costs a LOT of money (again, Marina bay sands <3) there's often that gross feeling. Especially in Vegas... Maybe I just think of all the people who've done stuff in the hotel room, as opposed to an AirBnB which feels like someone really lived there and respected the place.

So yeah, I don't buy the AirBnB has failed thing, because I'm a heavy user.

I might be wrong, but I hope not because AirBnB going bankrupt would be a real
bummer IMO.

~~~
onion2k
_So yeah, I don 't buy the AirBnB has failed thing, because I'm a heavy user._

AirBnB hasn't failed. It has plenty of users, and over $2bn in revenue. That's
not enough though, because the costs of running the business are higher than
$2bn and so we see articles about how it made a loss again.

It seems fairly clear to me that a large number of loss-making unicorn
companies need to get their costs under control, and the obvious way to do
that is to lose some staff, or pay them less. At the moment that's hard
because there's enough competition between companies that people can choose
where to work but _eventually_ the need to cut costs will outweigh the need
for "the best people", and salaries for new jobs will start to fall. The
result for many developers will be that they have to either stay in their role
for a long time or accept a pay cut to move company. It might be worth
considering that possible outcome if you work in dev right now.

~~~
tomhoward
From the article:

> "The company has been spending heavily on marketing ahead of its public
> debut."

Airbnb doesn't have _that_ big a problem with costs; not like Uber, Wework,
etc.

They were profitable in 2017 and 2018, and have been for most of their
existence, unlike their fellow unicorns.

I also don't think staff is that big a cost for them; again, they're not like
Uber, having to spend gazillions on both a huge on-the-ground workforce and
bottomless-pit R&D for autonomous driving.

Unlike their unicorn peers, they're a fundamentally a very strong company,
that has temporarily gone into deficit to accelerate growth leading up to
their IPO, but they're still in good shape.

The coronavirus is an unexpected hit, but they'll fare much better than the
rest of the travel industry.

------
djohnston
I will stay in airbnb if someone else manages everything, otherwise I'm only
in hotels now. I hate having to coordinate key pickups, I've shown up at
listed places that weren't supposed to be listed by some middleman company.

When I travel, the place I stay needs as few liabilities as possible, and
airbnb cannot provide that.

I still use the for the experience listings sometimes, but never for lodging.

~~~
prawn
Similar. I used to really like Airbnb and had a few great stays years back.
But now I almost never even check it because the extra costs pile up and there
are more disadvantages than advantages. I mostly stay in smaller motels where
it is often the owner at the front desk, you can bank on someone being there
to check you in at 10pm, etc.

------
jariel
COVID could break them. They're at 1B revenue and losing money, on a 30B
valuation?

This is bubble valuation, and with WeWork blowing up and now COVID hitting
_everything_ , the stock market in freefall - and that COVID will be
materially damaging specifically to AirnBnB - not just indirectly ... the
party is over.

This is the inflection point at which AirBnB becomes a 'real company' and has
to live within the confines of 'non-bubble-valuations'.

Which is fine, think they will survive but not without changes.

~~~
klyrs
I'm suddenly concerned about my booking in May...

------
corporateslave5
One thing I don’t see mentioned here is the out of control compensation Airbnb
has had for engineers. As an engineer I love to see companies pay more, but
Airbnb has been beating Facebook offers when they really don’t need to.
Companies like this are not rocket science. I get that the website is just the
top of the iceberg, but all those massive stock grants and base salaries are
going to haunt them.

~~~
analyst74
Not all startups are the same, but for companies that are bottom driven and
growing crazy, the skill, leadership, business sense, and amount of care
needed at IC level is unfathomable for someone who works at a more
traditionally managed company.

If they skimp on salary it'll be extremely difficult to attract the kind of
people they need.

~~~
corporateslave5
Maybe, but my point was that Airbnb is not one of those companies. Everyone
I’ve met working there says they do run of the mill web dev. Those same
engineers are making in excess of 450k, and are barely 30. Airbnb got into
some prestige employee game and hurt themselves doing it.

------
Brendinooo
I'd imagine there's a sizable group of people who think Airbnb is only worth
it if the price (and maybe location) is significantly better than a hotel, and
that seems to be less true as the company matures.

~~~
JenrHywy
It's also about facilities. Having a full kitchen and separate rooms makes a
world of difference when you're traveling with kids.

~~~
hkmurakami
There seems to be two market segments for solo/duo travelers and
families/large groups.

I’ve done the latter with big groups of friends and renting a nice house for a
week is a great experience. But I think vacation rental homes of this sort
existed well before airbnb

~~~
JenrHywy
They did exist, but they're far more discoverable with airbnb et al.

------
im3w1l
I have used Airbnb probably a little over more than ten times. And I've been
very pleased. From renting a room in an apartment with other airbnb renters to
renting a room in a hosts house, to renting an apartment to renting a whole
house with friends, it's always been a good experience.

The times we rented houses as a group were the best and most memorable.

My experience may be a bit atypical in that I don't care for the services a
hotel provides, but I greatly value having a bit more space than a typical
hotel room.

------
pucado
It's kinda surreal to see this happen. A lot of startups which were around the
lifestyle sector also the most fragile are possibly going to have a heavy
impact.

~~~
pucado
Do think WeWork would get hit as well

------
bosswipe
Is airbnb still a significant portion of YC's portfolio or did they cash out?
If airbnb crash and burns would it impact YC negatively?

------
technotony
There must be some difficult conversations happening at Airbnb
leadership/Board right now. IPO has to look like needing to be postponed and I
guess they will need to start figuring out ways to reduce their burn-rate
until market conditions improve.

------
nuggien
Airbnb is a shitty company. Last october we traveled to Seoul and couldn't
find the location of the apartment we booked. Even the local taxi driver
couldn't find it after circling the area for ~30 minutes. We called the host
during the entire 30 minutes and didn't get through to them.

After about 1 hour of time, we decided to call it quits and go book a hotel
because it was 10pm at night and our kids needed to sleep. We were just hoping
for a refund with Airbnb. What's their policy? "it's up to the host to decide
if they want to give a refund". What did the host say? "i have great reviews
and i haven't heard of anyone not being able to find the place." What about
the fact that you didn't answer your calls? WTF

Similar situation when we booked a place in Tokyo. We asked the host whether
it would be okay since we have two young children who are known to be
playful/wild/loud. He assured it was okay and assured us the place was big
enough to handle all four of us. We arrive in tokyo and and the place is tiny.
The bathroom is literally a 3x3 box with a shower right on top of the toilet.
The entire room is taken up by 2 beds with no place to move around, let alone
space for luggage and two kids. On top of that, the host's apartment is in a
building where the walls are paper thin and the neighbors are super sensitive
to noise. We did the hosts' neighbors a favor and went and got a hotel room.
Refund from airbnb? Maybe a partial refund? NOPE.

Seriously, I'm never booking anything on airbnb again.

~~~
Jommi
You're basically conflating different expectations in living conditions to
being dishonest reviews.

Your example of Tokyo feels absolutely tone deaf to me as someone who has been
there multiple times. That's just the reality of the Tokyo rent market. The
places are tiny and that's how the culture is there.

~~~
samatman
I had uniformly excellent AirBnB experiences in Tokyo, five out of five.

As a solo traveler. Nowhere I stayed was remotely suitable for a family of
four.

~~~
esyir
That's probably by American expectations though. Most of Asia builds much
denser (and smaller, roomwise) than anything in the states.

~~~
samatman
I also stayed with a family of five, so I'm familiar with what family housing
in Tokyo looks like.

Small, yes. But comfortable, and nothing like what the top of this thread
describes.

------
yalogin
Is Airbnb a fad? Or may be it provides a value in remote under served areas
only. For the most part if it worth setting up a hotel in the area, I found
hotels are usually better both in terms of options and price. I also seem to
be uncomfortable using another persons house and so walk and use stuff rather
gingerly always worried about breaking their stuff or spoiling it. In a hotel
I am somehow much freer. I don’t see the allure of Airbnb. I am only wondering
how big or small the set of people like me is.

------
jedberg
I wonder if this is just seasonality for their business. A lot of people
travel in Nov/Dec, but mostly it's to see family, so they often already have a
place to stay when they get where they're going.

I suspect summer is their big quarter. I wouldn't be surprised if they made
their fiscal year start in March so that they can get that strong quarter at
the beginning of the year, like how Apple starts their in September so they
get Christmas at the beginning of the fiscal year instead of the end.

~~~
teachrdan
Not according to the article:

"The world's biggest home-sharing company reported a loss of $276.4 million
excluding interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, compared with a loss
of $143.7 million a year earlier"

The loss increased by almost 100% versus the same time last year--and that's
before COVID-19. This really makes me wonder how their planned IPO this year
will perform.

~~~
linuxftw
Similar losses to SNAP. They'll probably be fine.

------
yumraj
I hope it's not the Groupon story repeating, where they went from funky-
accounting to GAAP and all numbers had to be re-reported, obviously not in the
company's favor.

~~~
jdm2212
It's not like Groupon. EBITDA is a totally normal metric to get a sense of how
the core business is doing, and positive EBITDA in tech is a good leading
indicator of profitability.

EBITDA is basically "how profitable would the business be if they had no debt
and their existing assets never lost value?". For companies with factories,
airplanes, etc. the physical plant deterioration matters a lot. For biotech
companies with patents that expire after 20 years, asset value loss matters a
lot too. But tech companies have neither physical capital nor TTL'ed
intellectual property, so EBITDA is a good approximation.

What happened here is that the whole travel industry is falling apart, not
accounting gimmicks.

------
monkeydust
Was literally just reading Airdna's report on covid-19 impact on Airbnb
revenue. Looks like things will get much worse for them.

[https://www.airdna.co/blog/coronavirus-impact-on-global-
shor...](https://www.airdna.co/blog/coronavirus-impact-on-global-short-term-
rental-
markets?utm_source=drip&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Here%27s+how+the+Coronavirus+is+Affecting+Short-
Term+Rentals+Globally&utm_content=1)

------
projektfu
I’ve had generally good experiences from Airbnb hosts but given that they
don’t support guests when things do go wrong I’m reluctant to use them again.

------
ahupp
I'm surprised to see the pessimism here. For a family of 5 AirBnB is _far_
better than hotels. I'd much rather get a whole house than cram everyone into
a single hotel room. And I can't remember the last time I had a bad
experience. Maybe the "whole house, multi-bedroom" segment is different from
the typical AirBnB experience?

~~~
balls187
For a consumer, AirBNB is at least a interesting alternative.

Consider the flipside. What would be a good home for a family of five, is now
taken off the market.

~~~
ahupp
It's a fair criticism when there's some restrictions on supply. In SF about
1.5% of housing is on AirBnB. Is that tiny? Lots? It's probably not enough to
move prices either way.

------
Tade0
I'm currently in an AirBnB which saved me from spending a fortune on a hotel
or trying to do the impossible - rent a place for one month in Zürich.

Both the app and website UX are horrid though.

In the long run I _prefer_ this over hotels. Not only the price is better, but
you also usually have access to amenities like a kitchen or washing machine.

------
t0ughcritic
Good Airbnb screws hosts and lies about their million dollar policy. We had
about 5 condos we managed and Airbnb never compensated us if the damage was
over 50$ They always found a way to deny it. Also always refunded guests when
guests lied about anything really.

------
lasgsf
Just putting my 2 cents here as a user. I love AirBnB and never have had an
issue at all so far. Once this gets over and yes it will I will continue to
use it.

------
Bombthecat
Also: quit a few people wont be able to pax there rent or mortgages anymore. A
few hosts i visited told that they do airbmb to afford to live in the citiy /
pay the mortgage...

------
antoniuschan99
Waiting for updates on We Work’s situation. With a potential downturn looming
and social distancing (wfh) from coronavirus it can’t be good.

------
hooande
is there a way to explain these losses other than "I had a bad experience at
an AirBnB"?

~~~
jariel
The growing loses are mostly likely, ironically due to their growth.

As such companies grow and see huge market in front of them, it makes sense to
take on loses to grab bigger market share.

Consider a company that makes widgets, profitably on a unit-basis. If margins
are thin and it costs a lot to make said widgets, then they need something
called 'working capital' which is the money to pay suppliers etc. before they,
themselves get paid by their customers. This 'working capital' is kind of like
a permanent need for some kind of debt, and weirdly, it grows as the company
grows! So in a similar way, a 'high growth' company can have an ever-
increasing need for debt as long as it's growing. Without access to this
working capital, it can starve and die. It seems like it's a paradox, but it's
not.

COVID will hit AirBnB pretty hard.

------
almost_usual
So COVID-19 ended all IPO hope?

~~~
jdm2212
IIRC they have to IPO because a lot of employees have expiring RSUs. Either
they IPO, or they find a way to buy out those employees' RSUs.

------
godzillabrennus
I’ve used them four times and only had one good AirBNB experience. Hotels are
so competitive in price in the markets I’ve visited that I never bother
anymore.

~~~
komali2
My girlfriend and I used to think the same until we started staying at
"shared" airbnbs, i.e. where you're staying at actual bed and breakfasts or
someone's house as opposed to just a random apartment held by a Chinese
superconglomerate filled with 1ply toilet paper.

Now we get to have really cool experiences - staying on a couple farms and
watching our hosts go to work milking cows or feeding horses, staying in a
really old Mexican woman's huge mansion and looking at pictures on the wall of
her and her family with presidents, popes, all sorts of other really cool art,
then having her cook us a delicious breakfast. That kinda thing.

If we wanna stay in a hotel and just have eachother to keep ourselves company,
Airbnb can't compete. But for a really cool side-experience to the main
vacation, that's something a hotel can't offer.

~~~
randall
This is airbnb's special thing. I wish I could filter for only these
experiences.

------
mrlanderson
good. Airbnb is a horrible co

------
CydeWeys
At this point I'm rooting for them to go bankrupt and fail, because they
continue illegally operating in my city. It is illegal to lease entire units
in NYC for <30 day spans, yet AirBnb does absolutely nothing to stop these
listings and indeed refuses to cooperate with the city government in shutting
them down.

~~~
carapace
Yeah. They're not a "home-sharing company" so much as a distributed hotel.

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rolltiide
Cant AirBnB just stop marketing and slow their runway burn to almost nothing?

They dont provide infrastructure or subsidies it should be okay

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foobar1962
Airbnb is a middle-man, they make money from the transactions (bookings)
between guest and host. The more bookings, the more money they make.

The number of bookings is decreasing, and they are refunding their cut from
bookings made months ago.

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jcims
Yes but to GP's point what are their costs? Marketing and a website? The last
place I went to book for 3 days had almost $90 in 'service fees'. ???

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cgurke
International customer service in many languages.

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wnissen
Serious question, have you ever used AirBnB's customer service? It's so spare
as to be nonexistent. They make Google look high-touch. The host is providing
95% of the service. AirBnB is only there if the host won't answer messages or
there is some colossal problem with the listing. I've had several dozen stays
and only invoved AirBnB service on maybe 5 of them. AirBnB should be making
money hand over fist since essentially they're providing a pricey listing
service.

~~~
foobar1962
I'm a super host and can be talking to a real person usually within 5 minutes.
I'm in Australia, it might be a time zone thing.

