
Lavabit needs your help to fight for the right to keep emails private - rebelidealist
https://rally.org/lavabit
======
Xylakant
I'm willing to contribute but I'm interested in details before doing so. I'm
aware that lavabit obviously can't go into details of what they're fighting
against, but some breakdown on what the money will be used for would be nice -
is it all for lawyer fees or does it cover other costs? How far is the sum
expected to reach, will the 40k be enough to fight until the last round or
will we get another fundraiser in a year? What happens to any money that's not
being used up for the defense?

~~~
ladar
The lawyers setup a non profit and applied for status as a 501c3. All the
donations are going towards legal expenses and any related travel...the team
is spread out between San Francisco, NYC, DC and of course myself in Dallas.

~~~
Xylakant
So who are we actually (legally) donating to: You personally, lavabit as a
company or the nonprofit? What does legal expenses include: are the lawyers
paid full wages or are they working pro bono or at a discounted rate? Please
note that I'm totally fine with all people involved being paid, they do have
to earn a living. It might influence the amount of money I'm willing to give
though.

~~~
dmix
Agreed, I donated without a second-thought. But for $30k, we should have a
clear explanation (more than a one-liner on HN) on where the money is going
exactly.

Online donations are notoriously lacking transparency. Nearly as bad as the
FBI/NSA (:P).

~~~
rdl
As long as it's being done through attorneys, that's enough for me. What I
cared about was knowing this was legitimate at all, vs. someone just
impersonating him, but that seems pretty clear. No member admitted to the bar
is going to fuck up something as simple as a legal defense fund, and certainly
not over 40k. I'd feel comfortable up to 250k or so without more
documentation.

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sethbannon
134 upvotes but only 34 contributors. If you truly support privacy rights,
please support those fighting for them. Donate.

~~~
wazoox
It asks me to log in with Facebook (oh, the irony). I don't have an FB
account, and I suppose I'm not alone among the potential supporters.

~~~
bdg
Super. I'll just neatly put my name next to a list of people (which the NSA
has connected to) who oppose the surveillance state ... and hope I don't get
black bagged to your fancy Cuban torture prisons if I ever cross into the USA.

~~~
mjolk
>"and hope I don't get black bagged to your fancy Cuban torture prisons if I
ever cross into the USA."

Oh give me a break with the hyperbole. The NSA likely doesn't give a fuck
about your activity of pissing and moaning on hacker news.

~~~
bdg
People have been detained for pissing and moaning on twitter about the
president.

But thanks for being so pleasant about sharing your assumptions.

~~~
ics
You mean this? [http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3521473/man-
who-...](http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3521473/man-who-tweeted-
threats-to-president.html#.UkncfyR56QM)

...

~~~
bdg
That's one of many. The first one that comes to my mind is
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-
Buntin...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-Bunting-
Leigh-Van-Bryan-UK-tourists-arrested-destroy-America-Twitter-jokes.html)

------
rmc
Is it only "the American people" who this person wants emails to be private?
That's what they're title says, and they talk about the US Constitution whose
privacy restrictions only apply to US citizens (AFAIR). Go beyond the fourth
amendment.

~~~
ladar
Personally I think bulk collection is wrong regardless of where a person is,
or what passport they carry. But the constitution only protects our right to
privacy on American soil...

Since Lavabit operates in the US and we can't tell which of our users is an
American, and which are foreign, I'm of the opinion they all have the same
rights.

~~~
rmc
_Personally I think bulk collection is wrong regardless of where a person is,
or what passport they carry._

I agree.

 _But the [US] constitution only protects our right to privacy on American
soil..._

I know. ☹

------
tehwalrus
I had just paid for a years subscription when they shut down - I had signed up
because they cared about privacy, and boy was I not disappointed.

Join me in donating (even/especially you other non-US citizen HN'ers), to
prove PRISM et al unconstitutional, and preserve all our rights!

------
pvnick
Just gave $25, I hope to see Mr. Levinson succeed! It would definitely be a
very meaningful symbolic victory against the surveillance state.

------
dingaling
The contents of e-mail hosted by third parties will _always_ be subject to
legal demand.

Even if Mr Levinson wins his action against NSLs, that will remain true. Non-
NSL warrants conform to the Constitutional protections and will continue to be
served and fulfilled.

~~~
fennecfoxen
Oh, come now. It's not as simple as that and you know it (or you should know
it). The Lavabit design - its entire premise -was that the service stored all
the emails in an encrypted form that even Lavabit couldn't access. It was
especially constructed that way to be different from other services, at the
cost of considerable time and expense. The Lavabit threat is universally
considered to be a government order to (in essence) stop running the service
that way. This is different from previous government demands in which Lavabit
did turn over information which they had.

So the question is: should encrypted-hosting service designs be illegal unless
they have a backdoor for the government and the service provider to get in?

~~~
betterunix
It _is_ as simple as that. If you are not encrypting your email locally you
are relying on the service provider to be honest. Claiming that Lavabit could
not access your email is silly; Lavabit could easily access it, at the very
least when you next log in (presumably this is why the service was shut down).
There is no meaningful difference between Lavabit's design and Hushmail's
design, and both services had responded to previous government requests.

If you want private email, you need to encrypt locally before the message is
sent and decrypt locally after the message is received -- end of story.

~~~
fennecfoxen
You state a natural consequence of information theory. The original poster
states that "non-NSL warrants conform to the Constitutional protections and
will continue to be served and fulfilled." Both these statements are true.

But does that mean that because you can compromise a system then the
government is allowed to force you to compromise your systems to utterly
betray the purposes for which they are designed and then lie about it?

~~~
ladar
This is vague and I apologize... but it has to be that way... for now.

I couldn't compromise the system... but as it turns out the feds have a few
secret capabilities the public doesn't about... they still need certain things
in order to break the security though and that's what I'm fighting. Both for
the ability to tell people what those secret methods are and the right to not
be forced into helping the feds compromise my system/service...

------
sdoering
What strikes me odd is the notion, that I as a foreigner do not have any
rights and nearly nobody in your country seems to care (at least so it seems
to me).

Even the Lavabit-Founder just wants to fight for the "rights of the American
people".

Don't the American people get it, that what this form of Chauvinism really
brings is bringing the world up against your country? Until America
recognizes, that it is not the pride of creation, this sentiment will only
grow and Americans worldwide will be regarded critically.

With every politician, that promotes this chauvinism, being elected, everyone
in the US is seen once more as a supporter of these views. Not the best idea
in the long term I fear.

------
prirun
From whois lavabit.com, ie, already public info:

Domain Name:LAVABIT.ORG Created On:21-Jul-2005 21:45:20 UTC Registrant
Name:Ladar Levison Registrant Organization:Lavabit LLC Registrant Street1:3930
McKinney Ave #576 Registrant City:Dallas Registrant State/Province:Texas
Registrant Postal Code:75204 Registrant Country:US

Mail him a check if you want to help and don't want to use electronic means.
Sure, it could in theory be a scam or waste of money. But we KNOW the NSA is a
scam, a waste of money, and a danger to our values.

Personally, I trust him. I received a hand-written note thanking me for a
donation. Good luck Ladar!

------
Zoepfli
"Let's rally for Lavabit to fight for the privacy rights of the American
people."

What about the privacy rights of the 95% of the world's population that are
not American people?

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mukundmr
Why spend all that effort in restarting Lavabit as an American firm? There is
plenty of room outside of the US for running a secure email firm.

------
jhh
I would contribute if I didn't need to give out my credit card details. I wish
that they supported paypal or payment via amazon.

~~~
gr3yh47
lavabit.com has a paypal donate link

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rocky1138
"Let's rally for Lavabit to fight for the privacy rights of the American
people."

What about the rest of us?

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asn0
How do I contribute using Paypal or a CC#, without having to give rally.org
all my personal info?

~~~
ladar
Their is a Paypal donation link on lavabit.com...

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gr3yh47
He should contact the ACLU + EFF instead of asking for donations.

But hey maybe the donations will help too

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mnml_
Lavabit didn't even bother refunding clients, why should we help them now ?

~~~
tkellogg
Because constitutional protection and human rights are greater causes than the
few bucks you lost. Lavabit didn't have to shut down, they could have handed
over your private emails, but they didn't. I'd say they've more than earned
what you paid.

~~~
danielweber
There's no part of "constitutional protection and human rights" that forbade
them from refunding customers' money for a service the customers paid for that
they then stopped offering.

(NB: I have no idea if they did/did not refund any money; I'm taking it as a
given for this comment but I'm completely relying on the comment chain for the
unverified story.)

~~~
smtddr
In lieu of what's going on, I think anyone expecting their money back should
re-examine priorities. Clearly Lavabit needs the money for a cause that,
frankly, trumps anyone's concerns about getting their money back. I completely
support them taking any cash that's available, risking the anger of the people
who would dare to be upset about it. In short, I think making the OP upset is
a negligible problem compared to the USgov to getting their way.

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l33tbro
I'm trying to get in contact with Ladar or somebody from Lavabit about
fundraising. Does anyone know the best way to conact him?

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joshlegs
> What if you filed for bankruptcy, and your emails to your lawyer became
> public, humiliating your family?

bankruptcies are public anyway.

------
fnordfnordfnord
I sent a few bucks his way a month or so ago, but it was returned to me.

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olleicua
What does lavabit actually do?

~~~
ufo
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit)

