
Law suit shuts down Olson TZ database servers. - fanf2
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/4133
======
apaprocki
I've pulled the court documents via Bloomberg Law. The issue at hand is that
Astrolabe owns copyright to the "ACS Atlas", consisting of both the "ACS
International Atlas" and the "ACS American Atlas". Olson tz files specifically
reference the "ACS Atlas" as a source for some tz data and allegedly
incorrectly asserts that it is in the public domain. They sent a takedown
notice in May 2011 and it was ignored. The FTP site is listed in the court
filing and they are requesting a temporary injunction, a permanent injunction,
and award of damages and attorney fees.

EDIT: The registered copyright they're referring to is here:
[http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-
bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=tx...](http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-
bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=tx0002101059&Search_Code=REGS&CNT=25&HIST=1)

~~~
acqq
The relevant quotes in tzdata are in the files (tzcode and tzdata are public
domain):

northamerica:

    
    
      # From Paul Eggert (2006-03-22):
      # A good source for time zone historical data in the US is
      # Thomas G. Shanks, The American Atlas (5th edition),
      # San Diego: ACS Publications, Inc. (1991).
      # Make sure you have the errata sheet; the book is somewhat useless without it.
      # It is the source for most of the pre-1991 US entries below.
    

europe:

    
    
      # From Paul Eggert (2006-03-22):
      # A good source for time zone historical data outside the U.S. is
      # Thomas G. Shanks and Rique Pottenger, The International Atlas (6th edition),
      # San Diego: ACS Publications, Inc. (2003).
    

As far as I know, even if the book is copyrighted, the raw information
contained in it shouldn't be?

~~~
jellicle
> the raw information contained in it shouldn't be?

That's correct. Supreme Court decision. Said decision is the reason why you
occasionally read news articles about the U.S. considering some form of
database protection laws - to make those databases protectable under law (and
therefore to make this lawsuit legitimate).

~~~
rickmb
Most European nations have database protection laws. Although limited in scope
and doesn't prevent you from compiling an identical database from other
sources, it has insane side-effects. In the Netherlands for instance, the zip-
code database is copyright protected.

~~~
joelhaasnoot
As is the train timetable info for the bizarre reason to block competition for
a new tender.

~~~
strictfp
So that's why the journey planners in NL are a complete fail (ns, 9292ov).
Always wondered, since NL is quite up to date in general when it comes to IT.

~~~
joelhaasnoot
Actually, there's a lot of work being done, as we speak to change the
situation on various levels. In 2013 I believe there will be a public tender
for a "National Public Transport Data Warehouse", 9292ov will be supervising
it I think, not bidding though.

Then there's the openOV project, a new project bringing together data from
lots of sources and talking to lots of transport companies and agencies. Most
transport tenders include a clause requiring data to be supplied to "national
journey planners", so there's hope. Just today they're working on GTFS feeds
for most of the Netherlands.

The Dutch Railways (NS) now has an API but it's mainly consumer facing data,
and nothing truely helpful.

tl;dr: Our transit APIs are stuck in 2005 but making headway.

------
dochtman
This is the guy who has been tirelessly maintaining the timezone database for
the past 25 years. You might not know about this, but timezones change a _lot_
, so it's quite a bit of good work. If you use any Linux or OS X system today,
chances are you're using the ADO timezone database.

~~~
koenigdavidmj
Java includes it too. Even if your system has it natively, Java includes a
separate copy.

~~~
bch
Tcl includes it too.

I wonder how this really _impacts_ ACS Publications. If they're just defending
their work for the sake of exercising their copyright, perhaps they should
have chosen to license the work to the DB. Especially considering the
volunteer effort that the freely available Olsen TZ DB has been.

~~~
harel
I think its exactly that. Its just copyright for the sake of copyright. As if
Olson got stinking rich from tz_data.

~~~
bch
I understand the copyright issue. It could be freely licensed though, and in
fact generate goodwill rather than friction and lawyer fees.

------
harel
I think its safe to say that each and every one of us, directly or indirectly
owes Mr. Olson a pint of his favourite ale. I have a few projects using
tz_data directly to maintain DST changes across multiple time zones and to be
honest I don't know what I'll do if that database goes away. Its been taken
for granted by many until now but I remember being screwed once just because I
didn't update it to account for some changes in DST times. So if those updates
are stopped we'll all be affected.

------
fanf2
The court case is Astrolabe, Inc. vs. Arthur David Olson and Paul Eggert

[http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/copyright-
lawsuits/massac...](http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/copyright-
lawsuits/massachusetts-district-court/82641/astrolabe-inc-v-arthur-david-
olson/summary/)

ETA: and here is a link to the complaint:

[http://www.scribd.com/doc/67760407/ASTROLABE-INC-Vs-
ARTHUR-D...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/67760407/ASTROLABE-INC-Vs-ARTHUR-DAVID-
OLSON-and-PAUL-EGGERT-Complaint)

------
manuscreationis
Wow, I am eagerly awaiting more news on this lawsuit.

I've seen this DB pop up a few times in my trials of having to deal with
implementing timezone support, and it seemed like it was always referred to as
the defacto standard lookup for TZ info...

As another poster mentions, Timezones are constantly in flux, especially DST
rules, and so for this guy to spend his time keeping it maintained is an
incredible service to the community. If you've never had to work with them,
consider yourself lucky (and start learning now - cus you will sooner or
later).

Any information on exactly what the lawsuit is actually about?

------
johng
Where can donations be made for his legal defense fund?

------
rbanffy
Is Olson adequately represented?

~~~
harel
Canonical/Red Hat/Novell or any big commercial Linux outfit should stand up
right now. Its their problem too.

~~~
fdr
These guys are small fry compared to other users of the Olson database
software:

IBM, Oracle, Apple, Google. There's your $500bn in market capitalization right
there.

------
zikzikzik
Where is EFF now?

------
canbuffi
Well, I think we have to fight this absolute nonsense. If Astrolabe prevailed
in this case, which they will not, because their claim is ridicoulous,
douchebag companies all around the world would try to do the same thing with
other opensource projects.

If you want to set up a mirror yourself, to help spread around the data all
over the world, have a look here: <http://github.com/canbuffi/tzmirror>

------
derleth
The Archive Team made a mirror of the files in question:

[http://www.archive.org/details/archiveteam-munari-oz-
au-2011...](http://www.archive.org/details/archiveteam-munari-oz-au-20111006)

