
New gaming laptop with innovative UI by Razer - zeratul
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/08/razer-to-release-stylish-2800-gaming-laptop-complete-with-dynamic-buttons.ars
======
ianl
I think you are all missing the point. There already is a massive market for
high end gaming pcs and laptops. Compare these prices and specs to what is
available from Alienware or MSI.

This laptop only misgiving is the fact it does not have an SSD. However, it is
competitively priced in comparison to its competition and with a sleek sexy
design this is a very interesting entry into the market.

~~~
phaus
There is no way this laptop is competitively priced with Alienware and MSI.
For about $1200 you can get an Alienware with the same GPU(which accounts for
90 percent of your framerate). For under 1500 you can get an MSI or Asus
laptop with a GTX 560M which is significantly better than the GT 555M. If you
actually wanted a high-end gaming system you could go all out and get a M18X
Alienware with dual 6990M GPUs. Just so we can rule this out as a gaming
computer once and for all, here is a performance comparison.

$2880 Razer "gaming" computer - GT 555M Bad Company 2 Ultra Settings - 17-20
FPS $1799 Alienware M17X with single 6990M - Bad Company 2 Ultra Settings -
57-59 FPS $2499 Alienware M18X with dual 6990Ms - Bad Company 2 Ultra Settings
- 110 FPS

[http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comparison-of-Laptop-
Graphics-C...](http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comparison-of-Laptop-Graphics-
Cards.130.0.html)

[http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-
HD-6990M-Crossfire.5...](http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-
HD-6990M-Crossfire.58862.0.html)

So price/performance wise, the Razer laptop offers about $550 worth of gaming
performance, but it is lighter and also has a $2200 dollar trackpad that no
one in their right mind would use to play a real video game.

~~~
falcolas
Owning one of those Alienware M15X Laptops, I can say that they are heavy and
bulky. The form factor of this new laptop is a lot better, and would make a
huge impact on my desire to buy it if I actually want to take it anywhere.

Hell, I about broke my back trying to lug my Alienware around a conference.
I'll never do that again. I'd pay quite a bit for the ability to actually have
my notebook computer be portable, and yet still able to play games.

~~~
phaus
I agree that gaming laptops are a huge pain to carry around, but Razer's
system is outrageously expensive for what you get. You could still save
hundreds of dollars by purchasing a normal laptop for 300-500 to take to the
office and then buy an Alienware or Clevo with a 6990M in it for about
1500-1800. If you decide to buy a desktop instead of the Alienware, you can
save another 1k. If one is happy with a GT 555M's performance, you can find a
5.5 lb laptop for about 700-800 dollars which has the same card and the same
CPU.

~~~
old-gregg
"CPU... GPU..." who cares? The laptop is composed of a shell, battery,
keyboard and the most importantly - the LCD. Nowhere in your post you
mentioned the quality of those 4 critical difference-making components.
Comparing computers based on irrelevant commodity (chips) is like comparing
automobiles by how many wheels they have.

~~~
phaus
Please allow me to address the "4 critical-difference-making components."

1- Shell - I love the idea of having a gaming laptop with apple's build
quality, but its hard to fit a decent GPU and cooling system in such a slim,
stylish case. Gamers know this and are generally willing to compromise. While
I hate the way alienware computers look, many reviewers gush about their
excellent build quality.

2.-Battery - High-end GPUs use a lot of power. Unfortunately, current
technology only allows for the battery to act as a glorified UPS. This is
unfortunate but anyone who is purchasing a gaming computer should understand
the limitations of such hardware.

3.-The keyboard is very important. Alienware keyboards aren't the very best
keyboards, but they are better than the overwhelming majority. On the other
hand the Razer has a "chiclet" keyboard which is considered by many to be
inferior to traditional laptop keyboards.

4.-The LCD - If you purchased a gaming computer, would you rather play a game
at 17 FPS on a beautiful screen or play the same game at 60 FPS on a computer
possessing a marginally worse panel.

When you are talking about a gaming computer, the GPU is pretty much the only
thing that matters. If you want battery power, a nice shell, and a nice LCD
you can get a SAMSUNG laptop with the same specs as the Razer for 2k cheaper.

~~~
potatolicious
#4 is a bit disingenuous no? There is a _ridiculous_ gap between the shittiest
laptop panels and the best ones. The difference is anything but "marginal".

If I'm going to push 60fps in Crysis 2 on a laptop I want good screen
contrast, proper color rendition, proper brightness, no light leaks from the
edges, etc. What is the point of the world's most powerful mobile GPU if it
feels like I'm looking at the game world through a bad Photoshop filter?

------
pkamb
_"Today, there hasn't been a single PC laptop that anyone has been passionate
about for the longest time. It's not because there's no innovation, but
[because] the big PC guys just don't want to innovate anymore," Min-Liang Tan,
the CEO and Creative Director of Razer, told Ars._

Completely true. For example Lenovo/Thinkpad stopped producing the 4:3 screens
that all their business users loved. Too hard/expensive to produce, 16:9
screens are the future, etc.

Until Apple produces millions and millions of 4:3 iPad displays. Now can we
reopen the discussion?

I don't think Razer's expensive hardware and new UI is the answer, but that
doesn't mean every PC laptop needs to ship with a just a shitty touchpad and 2
buttons. How about a 3rd button? A mousewheel? Start small and build from
there.

The part I really don't understand is how the PC _mouse_ industry is so
innovative/over-the-top. 7 buttons, independent DPI controls, lazer tracking,
ergonomic designs, etc. But then every laptop has the same terrible small
touchpad and two badly-designed buttons. Seems like adding a 30-cent
mousewheel to your case would instantly differentiate you from all your
competitors.

~~~
zdorab
I think part of the reason for the insane PC mouse industry is the relatively
low cost of the periphreals and the (perceived) direct impact it has on the
skill of the player playing a game. Where the PC gamer will drool over the
500$ amazing graphics card he can't afford, he can placate himself with a 70$
crazy ten-thousand button mouse.

Why there isn't any innovation in laptop input devices I'm without a clue. It
seems like there are so many better ways to input data than a touchpad and two
buttons.

~~~
tomkarlo
Because it's a poor risk to take - you have this whole product you've
designed, and if you built in an unproven pointing device and it flops, the
whole product is a dud. At least with desktops a mouse or trackpad is cheap to
replace, so a user might be willing to buy a computer with an unconventional
input device knowing that it's only $50 to replace. Buy a laptop and find out
you hate the pointing input, you're out 2 grand.

------
amelim
The last thing the PC gaming community needs right now is another insanely
expensive piece of hardware with a gimmick attached. I really cannot see this
going anywhere within the community. I'm guessing that those who largely play
the PC games that would require such high specs aren't likely to want to play
them outside of their homes. Besides you can purchase a comparably spec'd
desktop system for a quarter of the price.

Heck, the most popular PC game at the moment (World of Warcraft) can be played
on relatively cheap laptops already.

~~~
51Cards
I would definitely consider buying one. Why do people think that high priced,
high design PC's can't sell when Apple has been selling exactly this with
great success? The PC crowd has been lulled into cheap hardware but not
everyone wants that. I typically buy high end Sony Vaio's just because of the
sheer elegance of the product. I have raved on here about my Vaio Z, portable
"workstation" power in 3 pounds of 13" goodness. I think there is a market for
this.

~~~
Bud
People think that because the high-end PC gear can't compete right now on
price, design, longevity, toughness, etc.

For instance, this laptop can't manage to hit the MacBook Pro price point, and
it's in a plastic case, as opposed to a single-piece slab of aluminum. Which
do you think will hold up better? Who would you rather deal with for warranty
repairs and replacement? Which company is more likely to still be alive at the
end of the machine's life?

~~~
51Cards
I have to add a comment that personally I dislike Apple's aluminum slab
design. I have friends with MacBooks who's legs are red from the heat transfer
after it's been on their (insert irony here...) lap. Also I have never had a
problem with a well designed "plastic" cased laptop standing up. The Thinkpad
is generally considered one of the the toughest laptops around and it's in a
plastic case.

~~~
goatforce5
Apple sells "notebooks", not "laptops".

Edit: ooh - feel the downvotes! Go to apple.com and count the number of
mentions of 'notebooks' vs. the number of mentions of 'laptops'. The only
place you really see the word 'laptop' is in quotes in the customer success
stories.

~~~
ori_b
Yeah, weasel words are wonderful things.

------
samlevine
This is a great marketing gimmick for the keyboard they're selling:

<http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/keyboard>

At around $200 this is a lot more likely to sell.

~~~
DannoHung
Yeah, I'm a fool with too much money, but that keyboard looks SOOOO cool, like
an almost reasonably priced Optimus.

------
artursapek
_"The hardest thing was convincing a manufacturing partner to consider our
designs," Tan said. "No one wanted to do it. They all said there's no market,
it's too expensive, no one wants this. Gamers would want something big, thick,
and cheap."_

Serious gamers actually flesh out a lot of money on their setups. And I don't
know much about any scenes except Starcraft 2, but I know those tournaments
give out products from certain companies who sponsor the event as prizes, I
could see this computer fitting in that way. SC2 game "casters" have been
doing the same thing on their own, and it's normally equipment of this sort of
high end pricing.

The question here is can the gamers who build their own custom set-ups piece
by piece be convinced to buy this kind of all-in-one package instead?

------
phaus
The laptop looks very nice as far as design goes, but as a 3k gaming machine
it leaves a lot to be desired. I am starting to wonder if some of these
technology companies are intentionally trying to lose money.

The GT 555M is a mainstream consumer video card. It can be found on laptops
around $700 and I doubt it will run BF3 well at anything higher than medium
settings. As a $3000 gaming machine that hasn't even been released yet, it
should have a 6990M or a GTX 580M.

Finally, what kind of gamer who is willing to spend $3000 on a laptop is even
going to use a trackpad? I wonder how much this ridiculous, unnecessary
addition adds to the price of the system.

To put things in perspective, an Alienware M17x with a 6990M starts at 1799,
and an identical clevo/sager would run about 1600.

~~~
dekz
So one has to fork out $3000 every 6mos/year instead of $700 to just upgrade a
graphics card?

Looks cool, doesn't seem practical to replace a gaming rig.

------
typicalrunt
This is a nice looking laptop. It's expensive, but it's the first of its kind
so there's not market price set for it yet.

I hope it's easy for programs to change the look of the multitouch display
buttons. It almost bring the Optimus keyboard into the mobile realm!

------
Shenglong
I can't believe it took this long to make a non-apple laptop that isn't ugly.
Simple, sleek and smooth. It really isn't that difficult.

~~~
jinushaun
Reading the quotes from Razer in the article, it really makes me angry at the
big PC manufacturers and happy that HP got out. Nothing Apple does is truly
that amazing or innovative. The difference is that Apple actually has the
balls to try to produce a high quality product. Not expensive for the sake of
being expensive like Sony, but quality worth paying for. HP and Dell would
rather sell low margin crap at high volume than try at the high quality game.

Go Razer! Glad they're the only PC company out there will the balls to compete
on quality and innovation.

~~~
MaxGabriel
"Nothing Apple does is truly that amazing or innovative."

That's absurdly unfair, companies like RIM didn't even think the iPhone was
possible before it came out [1]. The iPad completely changed the "slate"
market in an unimaginable way. People may or may not be wrong about a post-PC
era, but its undeniably closely related to the iPad and its predecessor the
iPhone (especially given Android's UI before and after the iPhone [2]). If
your comment referred specifically to the laptop/desktop market, go back to
the original Macintosh GUI, unibody design, the high battery life and
relatively low cost of the Macbook Air (sure, they existed in the 90s as slim
as an MBA but not with equivalent design or battery--and the rest of the
market was into netbooks when the MBA came out anyway), touchpad gestures, and
MagSafe. And when other companies announce these features, like Razer here, it
usually ends with a $2800 Sure, you can name prior art on alot of these
innovations but having 'balls' is PART of innovation--execution is just as
important as the idea.

[1] [http://www.razorianfly.com/2010/12/28/rim-we-thought-
apple-w...](http://www.razorianfly.com/2010/12/28/rim-we-thought-apple-was-
lying-about-the-iphone-in-fact-we-didnt-think-it-was-possible/) [2]
[http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-
looked-l...](http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-like-
before-and-after-the-launch-of-iphone/)

------
kprobst
I love the idea of having a touchscreen instead of a touchpad. The
possibilities! Just that one aspect of this box seems like highly innovative
and hopefully a harbinger of things to come in the PC world.

------
ConstantineXVI
I've always found the idea of a secondary display on a laptop intriguing.
Would be nice to be able to look down at the keyboard and have docs for
whatever I'm working on already there, without having to page over to another
screen or such. I would presume the screen has some sort of API (or at least a
WebView mode) so this sort of thing would be possible.

On the flip side, a 17" display means you have room to keep both on the screen
at once, negating the extra display. 15" model please?

~~~
Shenglong
You know what would be really nice on a gaming laptop? A foot pedal. It would
actually be really nice for browsing too. As it is, I don't use my feet for
anything... it's only intuitive that a foot pedal should be developed.

~~~
dman
Theyve been around for a long time - <http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/fs-savant-
elite.htm>

------
axxl
I understand they say they don't care if there's no market, but I'm curious
who's going to buy it. Pro gamers will not care about a trackpad, or dynamic
key-screens, as they don't want to spend time looking at the keys when they're
looking at the screen. They have everything memorized anyway. But they are the
ones who can justify spending ~$3000 on a laptop. Casual gamers would like
these features, but don't spend $2800 on gaming.

~~~
zeratul
I would buy it if I had the money. I was looking to build a gaming desktop and
that's what I would end up paying anyway.

You're right it's not for a casual gamer but all Razer's products are not for
casual gamers and somehow they can make living.

------
kuviaq
More info from engadget (including lots of pics):
[http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/26/razer-blade-hands-on-
with...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/26/razer-blade-hands-on-
with-17-inches-of-gaming-greatness/)

~~~
joss82
The pictures look like real ones here and not like CG.

Thank you!

------
mambodog
The dynamic keys remind me of Art Lebedev's Optimus keyboard designs:
<http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/>

------
watty
Their advertisement took a stab at PC gaming vs console gaming and then they
release a $2,800 device? This puts it in a different market (one that I don't
think is very big).

~~~
redthrowaway
Their advertisement had nothing to do with consoles. It was simply a statement
that PC gaming is not dead.

If you want to spend $400 and play games, buy a console. You're not the target
market for pc games.

Alienware made a name for itself selling $5k gaming rigs. They were incredibly
successful at it. Since Dell bought them, their products have gotten crappier
and crappier. If Razer wants to fill that void, more power to them.

~~~
theBobMcCormick
I certainly hope they succeed. Not only has Alienware's quality reputation
been slipping, but they've always been absolutely hideous eyesores. This razer
actually looks pretty sexy.

~~~
redthrowaway
Indeed. Compare the razer to Alienware's comparable offering, the m17x:
<http://www.thelaptopauthority.com/image/m17x.jpg>

The Razer Blade may be a fairly blatant MBP ripoff, but at least it looks
good. Alienware seems to be pursuing the clunky F117-inspired look, complete
with superfluous LEDs. This is, unfortunately, not unique to Alienware. Asus
teamed up with Lamborghini to offer the VX7:
[http://rumors.automobilemag.com/files/2011/04/asus-
vx7-lambo...](http://rumors.automobilemag.com/files/2011/04/asus-
vx7-lamborghini-laptop-rear.jpg)

Lamborghini makes beautiful cars, but I'm not keen on plopping one on my desk
in the middle of class. The Razer looks like something I'd actually feel good
about being seen with.

------
glhaynes
I bet this'll be as successful as Windows SideShow.
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow>)

Games could already hook up to the pocket-sized multitouch high-res color
screens that we all carry with us already. Why not start with that and, if
there are actually some usages that work well, then consider building it into
the device itself?

Innovation != just stick another screen on there.

------
sbov
Whenever I play a game with a laptop I use a real mouse. Anything else is a
bit painful for me. Because of that, as a righty I'd rather have the dynamic
buttons on the left side of the keyboard.

Heck, make the whole keyboard dynamic. Then when you're playing a game,
instead of an alphanumeric symbol on the key being displayed, the action it's
bound to can be displayed.

~~~
artursapek
A person using hotkeys probably never has to look at the keyboard, I don't
know how useful a fully customizable keyboard would be.

~~~
sbov
I always have trouble remembering my lesser used hotkeys (e.g. if you have
20+), but maybe I'm the only one. A quick glance at the keyboard could make it
easy.

------
pazimzadeh
Apple's legacy lives on in Razer. Finally, a company not afraid to build a
quality product for fear of raising the price.

------
moe
I can't really imagine anyone in the FPS/RTS crowd wanting to look down on
their keyboard during gameplay. Normally you have to set their chair on fire
if you want them to break eye-contact with the main-screen...

Perhaps there are slower paced games where this makes sense, though.

~~~
njhwang
For gaming, mostly agree. Although I think that the pretty graphics are mostly
for show, the real power will be the ability to customize gestures for any
application, and the utility you get out of these gestures can well be worth
looking down at a "mouse screen."

I'm imagining being able to manipulate a CAD model in isolation, freely
rotating items in PowerPoint, redistributing power among
throttle/lasers/shields using sliding bars (X-wing, anyone?)...I'm sure there
are many more.

I'd almost argue to keep a normal track pad for dedicated cursor navigation
and have the awesome set of touchscreens as a peripheral. Then have an amazing
API for software developers to do creative things with it, and have an amazing
UI for the layman to create their own mappings. That might get adoption for
this type of thing going faster.

------
zerohp
Instead of a handful of keys with tiny LCD's inside of them, I'd like to see a
full keyboard that has e-paper on top of every key.

~~~
ImprovedSilence
god, thats a sexy idea. but then again im the kinda person who choses laptops
based on what their keyboard looks like. (ifi could get macbook pro style,
with ubuntu, for not quite macbook prices, life would be good.) and by macbbok
style, i mean yes, metal case, sexy keyboard, and awesome track pad features
go a long way with me. and I dont think im too much of an outlier when it
comes to asthetics. the pc world needs more innovation in this direction, and
even if razor doesnt hit exactly the bullseye, its not giving up without a
fight.

------
daeken
Anyone know if you can buy just the touchpad or the keyboard+touchpad? I don't
want the laptop, but that looks awesome.

------
sandGorgon
question - why is everyone making alumninium unibody notebooks ? Is carbon
fiber not lighter and (arguably) just as strong. Is it just the design
aesthetic that everyone is trying to reach out for or is there something else.

~~~
jinushaun
Because CF is still ridiculously expensive. It's cheaper now to make than
before and you might see it around more often, but it's still an exotic
material. Otherwise, we would see it everywhere.

~~~
sandGorgon
sony makes laptops using carbon fiber -
[http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisp...](http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&identifier=S_Z_SERIES_PAGE)

same ballpark pricing ~2000 USD. Is unibody aluminium that commonplace a
manufacturing process that it is much more feasible than carbon fiber ?

~~~
pearle
Oh nice. That looks like a pretty slick laptop. I like the lightpeak
integration w/ external video card & BluRay support.

------
zobzu
Incredibly thin and light for a gaming laptop mm? Arstechnica got paid to
write that I guess. I can fit 4 light AlienWare gaming laptops of 13" for the
weight of that 17". Even a big MBP is lighter... Odd.

~~~
darklajid
You are really comparing a 17" gaming laptop with

\- 13" gaming laptops (really? Those are lighter?)

\- a popular 17" laptop that lacks in gaming power

Why the snark?

------
tomkarlo
What if you're left-handed? Seems like you're kind of screwed on this one.

~~~
xenophanes
razer makes quite a few right handed products. it's a trade off to make it
better for 90% and lose some customers. i think in this case it's even more
important than with mice. trackpad below keyboard instead of to the side is
not so good for gaming.

------
teashorts
I don't get why they didn't produce the Switchblade [1] instead of this
expensive overpowered monstrosity.

[1] <http://www.razerzone.com/switchblade>

~~~
Kenan
From the looks of the pictures in the article I was certain it was the
Switchblade, but now looking back at the old pics on their site, I realized
that it's not the same Switchblade I saw months ago. In the article they even
named it "Switchblade User Interface". They said from the beginning that the
Switchblade was a concept, so I'm just glad they are releasing it earlier than
I though.

------
iam
But what will the battery life be? At least when the gaming laptops are big
and bulky they also have a huge battery. This thing looks like it'll run out
of juice flat in 1 hour.

~~~
windsurfer
Depends on what you're doing. It's got a 60Wh battery, so it should last a
little less than a macbook pro, so 2 to 7 hours.

~~~
unavoidable
Not while gaming it wont

~~~
windsurfer
Well gaming will make it last about 2 hours. It _depends_ on what you're
doing.

~~~
iam
Gaming laptop is for gaming.

------
icebraining
A $2800 laptop without an SSD and with a smallish (by current standards) hard
drive?

------
crag
:) No love for left handers. That's another reason trackpads are centered.

------
gcb
eeekeyboard had this. was a total failure.

i still want one. but the price point was just crazy.

------
blhack
These guys took out an ad in The Wall Street journal drumming up hype for this
release.

Guys: I can buy a Sony Playstation 3 for a little over $200. Call it $300.

I can then buy an large television for $1000, and a solid set of speakers for
$200.

That's $1500 all-in, for something that will play every single PS3 game
flawlessly.

Why would I spend $2800 on this? What I am getting for $1300?

If it's the variety of PC games like minecraft, I can throw an additional $500
at a low-end gaming PC, hook it to my television, and play console _and_ PC
games.

A gaming _laptop_? Why?

~~~
dstein
Selling expensive products to rich people is a lot easier than selling
affordable products to poor people.

~~~
AdamTReineke
And usually more profitable, I bet.

~~~
lallysingh
I doubt it, you don't have that many rich people to sell to.

------
bitmover
It also looks to have an innovative lawsuit inducing ID. Seems pretty lazy to
just anodized a MacBook Pro black, swap the logo and call it a day.

~~~
icebraining
I didn't realize MacBook Pros had touchscreens on the keyboard...

~~~
bitmover
Look at this gallery of product shots:

<http://www.engadget.com/photos/razer-blade-0/>

That is Apple's industrial design language. They could have made it look like
anything and they chose to ape apple, that's lazy.

~~~
imgabe
Are you seriously proposing that Apple has some monopoly on the idea of a
rectangle with rounded corners? There's only so many practical shapes that a
laptop can be.

