
The design of the Strict Haskell pragma - lmartel
http://blog.johantibell.com/2015/11/the-design-of-strict-haskell-pragma.html
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ch
Does the bang pattern have the opposite semantics when Strict or StrictData
pragmas are in use? Can one recover lazy semantics inside a Strict module?
That would be convenient/confusing!

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tome
You can use ~ to get lazy semantics, apparently.

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b6
Back when I was way into Haskell, Johan Tibell was the guy I tried to be most
like. I learned a lot from him not only about Haskell, but good software
development practices in general, and how to work better with others. Great
guy.

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haskeldownvot5
Idris is strict by default and has a stronger type system than Haskell that
supports dependent typing and in effect forced the hand of the GHC developers
and the wider Haskell community by showing laziness, one of the most unpopular
aspects of Haskell, to be completely unnecessary for a modern, purely-
functional language.

The strict pragma is a tacit admission that default non-strict evaluation was
a mistake, and all of those who defended it here and on proggit for years
should come clean and apologize for having done so, especially those who
dishonestly tried to pass it off as an optimization while knowing full well
that "spaceleaks" are one of the biggest performance concerns with deploying
non-trivial Haskell code in production. I wrote off Haskell entirely for that
very reason, and I'm not alone in having done so (search HN comments).

In fact, I would wager that if Haskell had not adopted such an unusual
evaluation strategy, GHC would have required only a tenth of the manhours that
have presently gone into it. Yes, you CS PhDs who secretly wish you were math
PhDs wouldn't be able to write toy programs with infinite lists, but that's a
small price to pay for lowering the language's skyscraper-steep learning curve
and giving it predictable, easily reasoned-about performance characteristics.

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haskeldownvot5
The Haskell community is by far the most abrasive and hostile to criticism of
any programming language. You can get away with voicing trite complaints about
too many parentheses in a thread on Lisp, but nearly any comment here critical
of Haskell ends up at < 0.

Attempting to shutdown your critics is a great way to alienate the
unconverted. "Avoid success at all costs" indeed.

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johncolanduoni
Perhaps you are being shutdown because you are combining your criticism with
condescension and personal attacks? Like deciding that people were being
"dishonest" because they don't agree with you and argue for their opinion? Or
levying insults against CS and math PhDs?

I haven't done enough Haskell to be part of the community (and to have bought
into whatever hostile groupthink you think surrounds it), but I down-voted you
just the same for being a complete jerk.

~~~
dpratt71
Indeed. There is something very familiar about the tone and content of these
posts from haskeldownvot5. There was another individual that achieved a degree
of infamy within the Haskell community for posting similar screeds to various
forums. The claims that the Haskell community can't accept criticism, the
accusations of the same 'lying' about performance, the referring to 'lazy
evaluation' as though it were a carcinogen, the aspersions cast against the
education of various individuals, both specific and non-specific...yes, all
very familiar.

I think there's some interesting psychology at work here. haskeldownvot5 is
clearly inviting downvotes by his/her choice of username as well as the
contents of his/her posts, but I think haskeldownvot5 has managed to convince
himself/herself that there is some cabal within the Haskell community that is
responsible for the downvotes. There must be a name for the phenomenon where
an individual brings things upon themselves and then uses the
criticism/persecution they receive as evidence to the fact that they were
right all along.

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AnimalMuppet
> There must be a name for the phenomenon where an individual brings things
> upon themselves and then uses the criticism/persecution they receive as
> evidence to the fact that they were right all along.

I believe that "persecution complex" is the phrase you're looking for.

