
Help zenbilling find a new name – backstabbed by $85M-in-VC-funding zendesk - atjonasnielsen
http://calvinconaway.com/2013/06/20/help-zenbilling-find-a-new-name-backstabbed-by-85m-in-vc-funding-zendesk-friends/comment-page-1/#comment-5842
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rurounijones
Devil's advocate:

Your software is often used in conjunction with zendesk, you say it yourself
and they both use "zenX" branding.

To me that could easily lead to confusion as a customer might believe they are
are part of a suite of SaaS offerings under the "zen" brand (i.e. zendesk
branching out).

I make no comment on the rest of the story, just that specific bit.

[Edit]: Maybe I should have said 'low-ranking imps advocate' instead :p

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bobsy
This is what I popped in to say. He say's it himself.

> Yes, we both use the “zen” moniker as part of our names, yes both are SaaS.
> But we’re not targeting the same customers or solving the same problem.

> On the contrary: Both I and many of my customers use zendesk alongside
> zenbilling.

There is an overlap between what they do and both using 'zen' can easily be
interpreted as affiliation between the 2 companies.

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nmcfarl
I don’t know - I use zencoder and zendesk. Just because your product has a
wide and diverse user base, like zendesk’s, doesn’t mean it’s easily confused
with every other product who’s name is related.

I don’t assume there is an affiliation between the zencoder and zendesk.
Personally I wouldn’t think there was much overlap between Billing and
Customer Support, either - and I would not be confused in the least. (From the
names - branding could clearly connect the 2)

Plus the number of startups with Zen in their name is huge:
[http://www.crunchbase.com/search?query=zen](http://www.crunchbase.com/search?query=zen)
(which is a bad query as it excludes zen embedded in the name like we are
discussing - but good as the number of relevant results is still ~30. And it’s
the best I could find on short notice.)

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epaga
This is one of the more reasonable trademark defenses by one of the "big guys"
that I've seen - one they are _required_ to defend in order to keep. So,
though it hurts, you pick a new name and move on. Very possibly the lawyers
told the CEO to not respond to those emails until a decision was made.

As an aside, the post starts by saying "it's not something to get worked up
about" \-- and then proceeds to do nearly exactly that, detailing even his
email "exchange" with the CEO.

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JungleGymSam
Lots of the comments here seem to be missing the point.

I think he pretty clearly states that it's not the technicality, or
legitimacy, of the trademark dispute that is bothering him, it's the fact that
his friend of 12 years did not treat him like the friend he thought he was by
speaking to him like a normal human being. Instead, the "friend" hid behind
his lawyers to do the deed.

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markdown
Apparently they think they own zen _and_ desk.

See [http://www.ripoffornot.org/](http://www.ripoffornot.org/)

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andyhmltn
That is ridiculous. I was considering using zendesk for a product of mine but
not any more. anythingdesk is a naming convention I've seen many times.
Because it's a _helpdesk_ hence the name. To claim that anybody using that
little play on words is ripping them off is shameful. Maybe zendesk should
look at who they 'ripped-off'
[http://www.helpdesk.com/](http://www.helpdesk.com/)

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vbrendel
If I was Zendesk, I would do exactly that, fight your trademark. Not that
their objections will necessarily hold up. You could arguably defend it, but
why bother?

If you say you are friendly with Zendesk, why did you name your product Zen-
something if there is no strict affiliation between the companies, it doesn't
make any sense, it should be lesson for others. The thing is that "being
friendly" is not really tangible in legal terms. In fact it's the "being
friendly" part that probably brought this on because if Zendesk hadn't heard
of you and their customers weren't using Zenbilling then your application
would probably have done through without hassle.

I know, and probably Zendesk do too, that what they are doing isn't strictly
"nice" to you. But there wasn't any official partnership or other deal or
agreement in place and that ultimately means there is no relationship between
the companies.

What you are doing is right, find a new name and move on. But don't let it
spoil your "friendship", and although probably there's no room for "favours"
anymore, keep your mind open for mutually beneficial agreements instead.

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thejosh
What if Zend comes out with software called Esk? That would be super confusing
between Zendesk and Zend Esk, so it would be better if you changed it before
Zend does that.

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Stratoscope
That's certainly a zendesque way to look at it.

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curiouscats
I think if people believe that anyone using names that have been used for
hundreds and thousands of years are going to preempt everyone else from doing
so (zen, book...) they should not have used those names in the first place. If
you want to prohibit all derivations of your name the rule should become that
you have to make up a completely new word. If you chose a commonly known word
then don't expect to prohibit everyone else from doing so.

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marijn
Maybe consider yourself lucky that you'll be prevented from ludicrously
associating your business with the word Zen although said business is, as a
provider of rationalist technology, almost by definition completely at odds
with the school of Buddhism by that name.

In any case, the victimized tone of the article is about as un-Zen as it gets.

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_pmf_
> as a provider of rationalist technology, almost by definition completely at
> odds with the school of Buddhism by that name.

Why would you say this? Gautama Buddha was a very pragmatic leader (not
allowing sick and handicapped to seek refuge in his temples because this would
drive away wealthy supporters), and Buddhism is still very much rooted in the
present and in the actual reality when contrasted against religions that rely
on some concept of "afterlife".

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logn
Well, the author changed his name once. He can change it now to Ben Zilling
and get the .com.

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djt
Zen has been around since the 6th century, I understand from a legal
perspective but it's a terrible position to be in.

Its a pity for innovation that this can be done through financial means rather
then hashed out between the parties.

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mavaso
Do you have any interest in my domain name, boip.com? Send me an email:
elijah@elijahchancey.com

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jacques_chester
It sucks, but he can't win this fight.

Register trademarks early. They trump domain names.

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holyjaw
Rule 1 - Never air your dirty laundry in public.

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gridmaths
zedbill.com ?

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jdmitch
I was just thinking zedbilling - it sounds close enough (to my american
pronounciation) that most people won't even think you've changed your name.
Then you can have a tagline like "all your billing solutions, from a to zed"
:)

