
Sitting for too long can kill you, even if you exercise - malingo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sitting-for-too-long-can-kill-you-even-if-you-exercise-study-1.2918678
======
KerrickStaley
This is an observational study, and therefore has the usual "correlation does
not imply causation" shortcoming. Maybe people with poor heart function or
prediabetes don't enjoy standing as much, and tend to do it less (i.e. reverse
causality from what the article suggests). Or maybe impoverished people don't
have jobs that allow them to stand or move at regular intervals, and also
don't have easy access to nutritious foods, causing poor health (i.e. a
lurking variable).

~~~
LiweiZ
Any further reading recommendations for concept of "correlation does not imply
causation"? I always look for a concise way to describe this (there are just
too many reports concluded in this way, I hope I could let others understand
this point sooner to avoid being trapped in the details for too long if not
forever) but have not been successful. Your words seems the best I can find.

~~~
downandout
Every time I bring this concept up on HN, I get massive numbers of
downvotes....I'm shocked that the parent comment is currently the top comment.
Maybe it's me. Anyway, here's one of my favorite applications of the concept:

[http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/superbowlindicator.asp](http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/superbowlindicator.asp)

~~~
wutbrodo
Hm, this and some of the other comments being mentioned are the much less
interesting instances of "correlation != causation". Specifically, these
examples (including the Superbowl indicator) are assumed to be cases of
coincidence (with enough data, certain slices of noise will look like signal).

By contrast, the much more interesting and relevant examples are things like
hidden variables: a third factor that has causal relationships (in whatever
direction) with both of the correlated variables being described, even though
the two correlated variables have no such causal relationship.

For an extremely trivial example, the data likely supports the conclusion that
you're more likely to get into car accidents when you have an umbrella with
you. This obviously doesn't imply that having an umbrella in your car causes
more car accidents: but rather that the hidden variable of rainy weather
causes both "people have umbrellas with them" and "people get into more car
accidents". Controlling for rainy weather (i.e. examining the correlation
during sunny days only or rainy days only), you'd likely find that the
correlation vanishes.

------
nkangoh
I've read quite a bit on standing desks and I'm curious if there is any
study/research that shows, experimentally, that it's actually [standing] that
leads to some of the proposed benefits. I only ask because I wonder if simply
exercising while sitting [1] or in general [2] lead to the same benefits or if
the very sedentary nature of the circumstances surrounding sitting that lead
to these poor outcomes (which then are solved by standing).

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/FitDesk-v2-0-Desk-Exercise-
Massage/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/FitDesk-v2-0-Desk-Exercise-
Massage/dp/B00CM9CBZY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421725283&sr=8-1&keywords=fit+desk)

[2]
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B1VDNQA/ref=psdc_3407781_t3_B00C...](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B1VDNQA/ref=psdc_3407781_t3_B00CM9CBZY)

EDIT: Forgot to mention, when I say exercising, I mean during the same time
where you would be sitting (e.g. during work, continuously)

~~~
analog31
I waste a lot less time at my desk when I'm standing. I've also experienced a
reduction of neck and upper body issues.

But I definitely have to wear more comfortable shoes.

~~~
onedev
Get a standing mat off of Amazon. You will thank me.

------
cseelus
So what are good measures for people that need to work in front of a computer,
like to read a lot, etc. to avoid/minimize that risks?

So far I know of:

\- Getting a standing desk (which is no alternative suitable for everyone)

\- Walking around/exercise every ~30 minutes for a short while

~~~
fenomas
When I was in an office, I made a habit of constantly drinking water, from a
fairly small cup. Every time I needed to ponder something I'd reflexively
wander off to get more water, then stare out the window a bit (apparently
focusing on something far away once per hour or so reduces eye strain).

Having just started working at home, after a few months I'm feeling the loss
of this habit.

~~~
chetanahuja
Ahh... the good old staring out the window with a drink in hand. My father
invented that.

~~~
fenomas
Thank heavens he didn't patent it.

....did he?

~~~
chetanahuja
Don't worry.... the patent's expired.

------
malingo
Source article is behind a paywall [0]

Sedentary Time and Its Association With Risk for Disease Incidence, Mortality,
and Hospitalization in Adults: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

Conclusion: Prolonged sedentary time was independently associated with
deleterious health outcomes regardless of physical activity.

[0]
[http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2091327](http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2091327)

------
reasonattlm
Some past items on this topic for consideration:

Sitting Time and All-Cause Mortality Risk in 222 497 Australian Adult [1]

Curb sitting time to protect aging DNA and possibly extend lifespan [2]

Television Viewing and Time Spent Sedentary in Relation to Cancer Risk: A
Meta-Analysis [3]

Take a stand and be active to reduce chronic disease, make aging easier,
research finds [4]

[1]:
[http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=11088...](http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1108810)

[2]: [http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-09/bmj-
cst090114...](http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-09/bmj-
cst090114.php)

[3]:
[http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/jnci/dju098](http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/jnci/dju098)

[4]:
[http://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/jan14/rosenkranz11...](http://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/jan14/rosenkranz11514.html)

------
kenrick95
Nowadays, the science news are more and more becoming this:
[http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?n=1174](http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?n=1174)
or maybe this [http://xkcd.com/882/](http://xkcd.com/882/) :P

------
logicallee
Whatever doesn't make you immortal literally can kill you, even if you do
other things.

------
kendallpark
I would like to see a study done that factors in the type of exercise.
"Moderate to rigorous exercise" is a very broad definition. That could be
anything from pumping iron for an hour to running six miles.

Standing is a weight bearing activity which has a great effect on bone density
and muscle mass. These in turn effect one's long term health. Weightlifting
can do more to compensate for the loss of lean body mass due to sedentary
living compared to cardio. I'd be curious to see whether weightlifting is more
effective than cardio in offsetting the effects of sitting most of the work
day.

------
userbinator
How about lying down, or even sleeping? The article mentions "sedentary time"
and not just sitting in an upright position - presumably that includes
sleeping too...

~~~
rab_oof
Moderation in all things including moderation excluding ricin, botulinum,
radioactive polonium and militant extremism.

------
memracom
If you can't remember to get up from coding, there are timer apps that you can
get to remind you to walk around. Besides, it is good for creativity and
debugging to get away from the screen and go somewhere else, even if it is
only to another part of the office or to stare out a window. In fact, staring
out the window also relaxes the eye muscles which helps prevent vision
problems and/or migraines.

------
desireco42
While there is definite correlation with sitting and not being super healthy,
going to other extreme, using standing desk all the time would also give you
varicose veins.

Some healthy balance of being active and also being knowledge worker and smart
Alec would definitely be best.

------
Pxtl
Dangit I need my drawing table back. Loved being able to stand or sit at my
desk as needed.

------
anaphor
relative risk increase != absolute risk increase, and I hate when news
articles say "20% higher chance of X" without saying the absolute risk.

------
accurrent
Correlation doesn't imply causation

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unnikked
I should be dead

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notatoad
"a higher risk of ... death"

is there really a higher risk of death? i think my chances of dying are
already pretty close to 100%.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
yup, and skydiving without a parachute doesn't change your risk of death
either since it is 100% anyway!

"higher risk of death" means on average people who engage in the behavior die
_faster_.

~~~
gboss
Actually not 100%:
[http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/ffallers.html](http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/ffallers.html)

~~~
ssully
I understand that the use of aircrafts in WW2 was incredibly high, but I would
have thought maybe 1 person survived a free fall and lived, not 6(recorded on
that site). Thanks for sharing that.

