
Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons - tosh
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-economic-history/article/origins-of-the-sicilian-mafia-the-market-for-lemons/52B18A611BD8AE26B4FDE3814A4239F1
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xr4ti
I really don't like the authors shoehorning a linear model into this work. I
perceive it as an attempt to give the article an undeserved veneer of
statistical/mathematical rigor.[1]

I think their hypothesis would be much better supported by typical social
science approaches, such as citation and quotation of primary sources and
comparative study.

For example, how does the Sicilian Mafia compare with the Camorra (Naples) and
'Ndrangheta (Calabria)? Did these organizations undergo a similar expansion
during the same time period? Were their origins and expansions rooted in
similar phenomena?

[1] [https://aeon.co/essays/how-economists-rode-maths-to-
become-o...](https://aeon.co/essays/how-economists-rode-maths-to-become-our-
era-s-astrologers)

~~~
bertil
It’s less a way to come off as “sciencey” and more a way to get your ideas
accepted at this point. The people I know in the list of thanks would
wholeheartedly agree with your the regression is forced but it gets neo-
classic economists (when I was studying the vast majority and presumably still
holding the reins of key publications) to not dismiss you as “psychologists”.

I’m not sure if the right approach is to use basic maths to illustrate the
idea makes sense but doesn’t need that formalism to make it acceptable or to
refuse the charade. I genuinely think the smarter people I know are also
uncertain about it.

~~~
toyg
_> it gets neo-classic economists [...] to not dismiss you as “psychologists”_

Lol, that's funny - I'm pretty much at the point of dismissing "fundamentalist
neoclassic economists"... As much as they try to deny it, economic studies are
just social studies with a couple of simplistic graphs on top to look "mathy".

~~~
jstanley
As far as I'm concerned, economics is just supply and demand, and the
efficient market hypothesis. Anything beyond that is some combination of
politics, psychology, and social studies.

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muse900
Where I grew up (Crete), I kept on listening to stories by elders about how
their grandfathers and family members left the place due to vendettas between
families and all went over to Sicily.

Judging by the mentality of people around me, even those days I'd say they pay
too much into respect, and disrespecting someones honour by any means could
lead into the start of a vendetta. Bear in mind we are now in 2018 and those
things are still happening.

My sort explanation is that obviously people that resided in Sicily, Southern
Crete etc were not afraid to use force to defend their honour, and make a
living. Later on people that left Sicily and went to e.g New York were a bit
toughed up by living in a place that vendetta was a very common phenomenon and
while they saw an opportunity where they could force fear into the other
racial groups in new york, they took it.

~~~
ethbro
Social scientists seem to dislike it (possibly because it's a singular answer
and thus cuts off future PhD papers), but Frontier Thesis and similar
frameworks of people-as-reflection-of-environment seem one of the more solid
results from those fields.

As you noted, how can the entire culture and environment around someone not
shape their person and way they go about living?

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Thesis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Thesis)

~~~
muse900
I can reflect to that. As a person that lived over 10 years abroad, coming
back to Greece and Crete has been difficult. I can see myself and some
foreigners that resided here after their pension came in, doing things that we
wouldn't do e.g in the UK. (I can see changing in the way I drive, interact
etc and that has been paved by the surroundings, given the fact that I got my
licence in the UK and have been driving for 10 years there, without any prior
driving in Greece. Now that I am back I can see how I've changed the way I
drive and its mainly cause of the other drivers, you have to adapt. Driving is
just an example to show that even people that ain't willing to change their
mentality based on their surroundings, do change in order to accomodate.)

~~~
ethbro
Related question, as 10 years seems a good time: do you think it changed you
as a person?

I.e. If you imagined yourself _never_ having moved away, do you think you'd
react / think differently now than you do? (in a broader sense than driving)

~~~
muse900
Definitely.

Been away for 10 years and lived a bit in New York and the rest of the time in
London, changed me a lot.

Now that I am back, I am having trouble communicating with people around me,
as they can't believe nor understand some experience am sharing with them.

My funniest moment so far is an Expo I went to in Athens which is supposed to
be the top Expo for balkans, and they had a smart room for the hotels of the
future. The narrator that was running the whole story went and picked up an
alexa echo, putting it right infront of his mouth, giving a command like
'alexa night mode'. I couldn't believe in my eyes. I do happen to use alexa
and have it all around my house, so that came out as a shock to me as to what
they believe as groundbreaking tech here.

On other fields I'd say workplaces, while I work remotely, I can definitely
see my wife and close circle on how unprofessional they are with their jobs.
Also discrimination is another thing here, people advertise for jobs only for
women or jobs only for men and specific ages which is definitely
discriminatory.

As an example, if I ever start my own company here, I am going to run it by
the book and I'll definitely use a model closer to London or even Scandi
countries, I'd never discriminate against anyone etc.

So yes if I imagine myself never having moved away, I'd definitely be a
completely different person right now. (Don't get me wrong, there are still
nice people here, and some parts of the lifestyle are way better compared to
big cities)

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Nuzzerino
For anyone else interested in the subject, here is another paper you might
like:

Economic Origins of the Mafia and Patronage System in Sicily (2009)

[https://web.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-03160...](https://web.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-031609-103313/unrestricted/JSardellMafia.pdf)

~~~
erikb
This sounds very reasonable to my personal observations. It's basically a type
of government, that is not officially recognized as such. And yes, people are
worse off under it than under most official governments. However even without
mafia like governments, due to the chaos of whatever change is happening, they
are already worse off even without any mafia.

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nwatson
A similar development underway in avocado-producing area of Mexico ...
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/cities/2017...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/cities/2017/may/18/avocado-
police-tancitaro-mexico-law-drug-cartels) ... likely not to the extent of the
Mafia but shows the same environment and incentives.

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simo7
Well maybe that's one of the first "application", but it's a well know fact
that Mafia's rise was fostered by the Italian unification.

Southern Italy was for the most part a feudal system controlled by a
traditional aristocracy.

The unification prompted by one of the Northern Italian states meant the
wiping out of the existing Southern Italian aristocracy.

Northern Italian bourgeoisie and aristocracy became the new ruling classes of
the new unified Italy.

Although they tried to replace the Southern Italian aristocracy with a new
class of bureaucracy, the traditional feudal structure of the South and the
sudden void of power made it easier for an organization like Mafia to arise.

~~~
aaron-lebo
This is related to what you are speaking about:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Democracy_Work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Democracy_Work)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_southern_It...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_southern_Italy)

Crazy how something that happened 8 centuries ago can still have an effect.

~~~
simonebrunozzi
The "unified Italy" only happened in 1860/1861, and the Northern Italian state
was the "Kingdom of Sardinia", which comprised mostly Sardinia, Liguria and
Piedmont. Only 1.5 centuries ago.

What you are referring to is the Norman conquest, which is different.

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deanclatworthy
This book [1] goes into great detail on the history and origins of the mafia -
including the lemons. It's a great read.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Cosa-Nostra-History-Sicilian-
Mafia/dp...](https://www.amazon.com/Cosa-Nostra-History-Sicilian-
Mafia/dp/1403970424)

------
raides
I am confused. Wasn't this part of the statement in the Godfather with what
happens at a fruit stand on the street?

~~~
aduric
There is a well-known association between the Godfather movies and oranges.
For example, Don Vito has an orange slice in his mouth when he dies in the
garden. And yes, the fruit stand scene. There are many more examples.

I'm not too familiar with Mario Puzo's novel and use of oranges but it would
be fascinating if there was somehow an innate link between the use of oranges
in the movies and the origins of the mafia (what this paper is claiming).

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hownottowrite
It isn't about the mafia, but it is about Italy, Lemons, and life...

The Lemon Gardens by D.H. Lawrence from Twilight in Italy (which in it's
entirety is an extremely beautiful and meditative book):

[https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/l/lawrence/dh/l41tw/chapter2....](https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/l/lawrence/dh/l41tw/chapter2.2.html)

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heydenberk
I strongly recommend this podcast to learn more about citrus and the history
of Italy: [https://www.eatthispodcast.com/citrus-in-
italy/](https://www.eatthispodcast.com/citrus-in-italy/)

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fibo
I saw an historic video in Italy that said Mafia arises around the control of
water.

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b3h3moth
This work is really outrageous.

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eadmund
> According to the detailed description of lemon production in Harold G.
> Powell (1908), the production of lemons in nineteenth century Sicily started
> with the sowing of bitter orange seeds in spring in small seed beds under
> the bearing lemon trees. After one year from the seeding, the small trees
> were transplanted in small clumps at a distance of about 60 cm from each
> other. When the plant reached a height of almost a meter, the tree was
> transplanted to the groves at 3–4 meters of distance from each other.

Curious. Wouldn't those still have been bitter orange trees? Perhaps the
authors left out a step where the bitter orange trees were cut down and their
rootstocks used for grafting on shoots from the lemon trees? If so, I wonder
why they were planted near a lemon tree to begin with — to acclimate them to
lemon wood or something?

~~~
antirez
Something odd going on indeed... Either the bitter oranges were later grafted
with lemon plants, or the reason to plant near the lemon tree was in order to
produce, by hybridation, other seeds that had mixed attributes, some of which
would be very similar to lemons. The former makes more sense however.

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tesseract
I was kind of expecting something to do with the classic economics paper "The
Market for Lemons", but in this case it seems to be actual literal lemons, for
what it's worth!

~~~
bertil
During my PhD on Institutional economics, the confusion was common -- even
more so when we had a conference in Corsica. With this article, I’m assuming
it’s going to become a joke and a shorthand.

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45lifdluycas
interesting

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jeffdavis
"hampered economic development in Italy for more than a century"

Hamper compared to what? A magical utopia without crime, or a realistic
counterfactual with another set of criminals?

Speaking of which: is organized crime worse or better than disorganized crime?

~~~
erikb
Why are the best discussion points these days always downvoted? One doesn't
have to agree with someone, but one should appreciate reading something one
hasn't thought to be correct oneself.

Also some people really, and reasonably, argue that government is nothing else
but a kind of Mafia that simply one the competition for being called
"government". You also know the discussions of "freedom fighter" versus
"terrorist" declaration, right?

~~~
hutzlibu
"Herschel I. Grossman (1995) and Stergios Skaperdas (2001) both consider mafia
as an alternative enforcer of property rights. Using a model with two actors
(a self-governing community and mafia) and potential robbers, Skaperdas (2001)
shows that in the absence of an enforcer of property rights, mafia can
represent a sort of second best solution"

I do agree, that mafia act as a government. But there is still quite a
difference to a democratic government. It is more a olygarchy/despotism.

But I believe our roots of government back in the middle ages, when feudals
conquered new peasants to profit from them, were very alike. And there might
be still characteristics in our institutions from that legacy. People
definitely view it that way, when they pay taxes ...

~~~
erikb
Absolutely agree. Mafia is not a democratic type of government. And even most
despotic governments are probably better than the average mafia, for the
people they rule. Reason being that you can't rule a big, stable country if
you are too tyrannic. Other government-types will compete with you, and even
foreign governments will try to take your land and people.

~~~
cs1717p
Democratic != good.

~~~
erikb
Also agreed. However: democratic >= mafia

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cjbenedikt
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia)

