
Tech Jobs without a Degree - kevinze
https://techjobswithoutdegree.com/about
======
keiferski
If your only definition of "value" is "monetary value," I think you have
larger issues. To quote Oscar Wilde (over a hundred years ago, to boot):

 _Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing._

To me, college was extremely valuable. College forces you to interact with
people and ideas that you either disagree with and/or were completely unaware
of. It's the single best way to reduce the number of "unknown unknowns." Was
it overpriced? Yes. Were the loans "worth it"? Not sure. But the solution to
this societal problem is surely to make attending college more affordable, not
to erode the fundamental importance of an educated society.

~~~
tannhauser23
"College forces you to interact with people and ideas that you either disagree
with and/or were completely unaware of. It's the single best way to reduce the
number of "unknown unknowns."

So does getting a job, volunteering, traveling the world, doing a mission
trip, serving in the armed forces, etc, etc.

There is a social cost to having people spend 4-6 years in college. And
colleges are increasingly becoming government-subsidized vacation from the
real world. We should ask whether the core benefits of college that we want to
actually subsidize - education, training, etc. - can be done cheaper and
faster through other means. Cut the cruft.

Look, I was a humanities major in college and I loved it. But looking back,
the four year experience seems like an extremely expensive exercise in upper-
class cosplay. It was a luxury that the taxpayers, in effect, paid for.

~~~
petraeus
"humanities major in college" \- i think i found your problem

~~~
notfromhere
you can learn skills outside of your classes and come out with the benefits of
both. college isn't a job training program outside of a few majors

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alansammarone
I often see people pointing out that college has other pros other than just
teaching people technical skills, which many can learn from other sources.

My 2 cents: College has also many cons. Apart from the monetary issue, college
forces talented people to learn things way more slowly than they could, in a
much less efficient way than its possible. College also forces you to go
through some very uninteresting classes. Some people would argue that this
good, since in the "real world" that is often what happens. I don't like this
line of reasoning: that is part of the problem. You shouldn't do what you
don't like, and college shouldn't teach you that. From a biological point of
view, college is the most productive time in your life.

Should we really be forcing (and by that I mean: should the people hiring
engineers require a degree) people to sit through slow, sub-optimal, boring
classes during their most productive years, in the hope that they get used to
being unhappy most of the time?

College may be good to some people, but it may also hurt a lot of talented
people, who waste their valuable time and become used to the fact that its ok
to be unhappy with what you're doing. It's not.

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johnmaguire2013
I didn't go to college. I started teaching myself when I was 10 to write
PHP/MySQL/HTML/CSS/JS. I got my first "real" job when I was 18, fresh out of
high school. I'm now nearly 22, making more than either of my parents, with no
student debt, and I am so glad I didn't decide to go to college.

My advice is to take a gap year before college. If you can become gainfully
employed during that gap year, why bother?

~~~
vog
This is mostly a US issue, though. In many European countries, for example,
you can get a decent education without being left in large debt.

I prefer to live in a society where, when in doubt, people are usually more
educated than they actually need to be. This is far better than the reverse.

The bad thing is the debt, not the college.

~~~
nxsynonym
>The bad thing is the debt, not the college.

To add to this: the bad thing is that college is being peddled as necessary
for career placement/advancement, when it's just another big business looking
to profit off of young people who don't know what to do with their life.

College level education is great. The more educated and well-rounded a society
is the more it will benefit from each other. The fundamental problem is
exploitation for profit (much like our health care/insurance industry here in
the US).

~~~
notfromhere
universities aren't for-profit institutions. the increase in cost was because
states cut back funding for universities, forcing higher tuition and higher
debt loads on students

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jones1618
I'm a self-taught senior developer that has worked successfully without a
diploma for decades.

Is bypassing college a viable path in tech? Yes, definitely.

Is college worth it? Hard to say. If you are going strictly to have a piece of
paper and learn "job skills", no. If you are going for a wider education,
connecting with other people and a world of ideas, absolutely. Those are
experiences that I regret doing without.

However, there is one directly career-related reason to get an undergraduate
degree: While many tech jobs don't require one (especially in the first few
years of your career), many of the jobs you may want mid-career will
increasingly require a _graduate_ degree.

For example, you can get pretty far doing User Experience work without a
degree but I've noticed that more and more senior UX positions or UX architect
positions strongly recommend, if not require, a Master's Degree. Likewise, you
could be doing everything required of a Data Analyst at your current job but
when you go to apply to other companies for a DA job you will likely be
competing with and interviewing with people with graduate degrees.

So, my best "old timer's" advice is: Skipping college could very well be the
best strategy for some, at first. After you've settled into a few years of
work, though, go to night school and get the degree. That way, a graduate
degree will be within reach a few years later when you want to pivot into a
different or higher career.

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leereeves
Where'd the title come from? This doesn't have much information about the
value of college.

> Are companies willing to hire tech people who do not have a degree?

> I don’t know, but I want to get some answers.

~~~
nxsynonym
This seems more like a re-hash of the questions that have been asked hundreds
of times already. There's not much critical thought beyond

>"I would recommend taking a few humanities and social science courses, even
though most tech employers do not list them as job requirements."

I think at this point most people are skeptical of the viability of a
traditional 4 year degree and the debt it creates. Non-traditional paths have
been peddled and marketed extensively. Bootcamps, community colleges, DIY
approaches.

It's been made clear that companies are willing to hire non-traditional
students. The biggest question, in my mind, is what is cap for these types of
students? Where does the career trajectory end, and how does that stack up to
regular 4-year-degree holders?

What is the real value of college these days? Connection building? Prestige?
It certainly isn't job security or prospects. Not to mention the dollar-cost
trade off of average debts.

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RSchaeffer
> For these reasons, people should consider the possibility of starting a
> career in tech without going to college, and employers should consider the
> viability of hiring such candidates.

How does this differ from the status quo?

~~~
LyndsySimon
That's a good question.

I believe that a lot of people see not having a degree as an impediment to
getting a job "in tech", and therefore never set out down that path. In my
experience, the reality of that is much different: I don't have a degree and I
know many others in my situation. What I _do_ have is professional experience.
I don't think my lack of a degree has held back my career or limited my
earning potential.

~~~
notfromhere
The problem is that many employers will toss resumes without a degree on them
without a second thought.

~~~
LyndsySimon
First, why would you want to work for an employer like that? Second... why
would you just submit a resume and do nothing else? If you're looking to land
a job you need to be networking and making yourself known. The path here isn't
to find a way through the HR filter, but to simply go around it.

~~~
notfromhere
This isn't just an HR filter, or something you can email your way around. Not
having a college degree looks like risk, so unless you get lucky, your resume
will not be considered. It sucks, but that's how things are at the moment.

Kind of how IBM stuck around for so long because 'no ones ever been fired for
buying IBM'.

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allthecybers
Some companies require a degree, others will hire you but hold you back from
some Senior level positions/professional advancement until you get a Bachelors
degree.

It comes down to what is an HR filter and what is nice to have for negotiating
advantage/advancement.

However as the industry evolves it would be nice for the entire pipeline from
grade/highschool to career to facilitate a techcentric education and not even
require 4 years in a college setting to prepare an individual for a career in
tech.

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LyndsySimon
Note that this post links to the "about" page, and clicking on the page's
title will take you back to the home page. It's a job board.

~~~
drivingmenuts
For me, at the moment, it's a "Loading ..." board. Nothing shows up.

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Tade0
Education is not necessarily something that has value to the employer, but it
certainly is valuable to the individual.

I for one value tremendously the fact, that I met so many people much smarter
than me who had the time to have all those conversations with me and weed out
some of my more ridiculous ideas.

That being said I studied in Europe, so I didn't have to shoulder the burden
of student debts.

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vog
The title is pure link bait. Why not use the original title "Tech Jobs Without
Degree"?

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amalfra
Atleast here in India a degree from a top tier engineering college matters the
most

