
Ask HN: Best developer laptop under $1700? - factorialboy
I'll use Ubuntu / Debian based Linux. Looking at System76, any other options?
======
graue
What kind of developing and what are you looking for in terms of specs?

I run Xubuntu on a 13" MacBook Air, which is only ~$1100 and does everything I
need. For web developers, I feel like the Air is almost the default option.
That your budget is so high (“under $1700” would seem to include the vast
majority of laptops) suggests you may be doing something that needs serious
CPU/GPU performance, in which case our goals are different.

For me, portability was paramount (otherwise why get a laptop?), so I wanted
it lightweight and no bigger than 13". Second, I wanted it to have an SSD so
it'd be fast. I had read that replacing hard drives with SSDs makes a huge
difference in responsiveness and that turns out to be absolutely true. All
other specs (CPU, RAM, ...), I didn't care about because I felt confident they
would be good enough.

Those goals narrowed it down to either one of the PC ultrabooks (which
System76 does not make, unfortunately) or the Air. Out of the PC ultrabooks,
the ThinkPad X1 Carbon was the best contender, and w1ntermute's comments in
this thread: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4849781> have convinced me
that if I were buying a laptop today, I'd probably pick the X1 Carbon over the
Air. Either one's great, though, and supports Ubuntu just fine.

~~~
factorialboy
I can't seem to get a good display with any Ultrabook.

~~~
zcrar70
The Asus UX32VD has a 1920x1080 resolution. I have one and love it. You'll
have to change the default HDD to an SSD, and upgrade the RAM to 10GB though.

Jeff Atwood also has one - his review is here:
[http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/09/the-last-pc-
laptop....](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/09/the-last-pc-laptop.html)

~~~
Jean-Philipe
Also have it and did the same upgrade. It seems the only (or one of the few)
upgradable Zenbooks. Others have SSD or RAM soldered on the board. Needed some
special screw drivers though (torque 5) in order to open it.

Ubuntu is running on it, has some quirks currently, but runs quite well,
although I had to remove the splash from the UEFI boot options to have it boot
from a USB stick. Without any special power saving options used (like having
the dedicated graphics chip turned off) I get between 3 and 4 hours of
battery. Once I have time I will try to tweak the Linux a bit to consume less
energy, turn a few things off (keyboard backlight, bluetooth, lower screen
brightness) , I should be able to get up to 7 hours of battery or so. On text-
mode only I might even get more.

The screen is really bright and has nice colors.

Only thing I didn't like was the trackpad, so I'm mostly on keyboard.

------
gavanwoolery
Going to throw this out there, you decide if it is viable:

You can use a Nexus 10 or iPad with Linode or other VNC software, and a
bluetooth keyboard/mouse. It is also possible to rig a tablet with an ethernet
connection directly to a host Mac/Linux/Windows device to eliminate any
performance issues that a wifi connection might present, although for this to
work effectively the device needs a USB 3.0 connection (some newer tablets are
sporting this), both for speed and full duplex communication. Android supports
IP over USB (even outside of the debugger, but requires some trickery if I
remember correctly).

    
    
      Advantages:
      Cheap: ($400-$500)
      Potential to use satellite connection (if whatever tablet you are buying supports it).
      9+ hours of battery life in some cases.
      2560x1600 resolution (slightly less for iPad 3).
    
      Disadvantages:
      lag/performance issues
      portability (carrying more pieces)
    

Other than that, you kind of have to prioritize what is most important for
you. In my case, portability is not such a big issue, as long as the device
can easily be set up in a hotel room or office I am set. This means I don't
really need to limit myself to devices that are battery-powered, and I have
considered using a Mac Mini with a portable monitor/keyboard, or even modding
a 21 inch iMac to fit in a suitcase (I am unfortunately limited to Apple
devices as I do a lot of work with iOS). The performance difference between my
iMac (27) and Macbook Air is night and day (and both are new).

In general, there are many hacky ways to avoid buying a laptop, and I
recommend it because laptops are often over-priced and under-powered.

~~~
jlgreco
I would add "having to carry two things around now" to that list. That is what
keeps me from adopting a setup like that.

~~~
gavanwoolery
fixed :) Although I should add you can create any number of mods that convert
the pieces into one cohesive device, although obviously that is not for
everybody.

------
NateDad
You don't need $1700 for a laptop to develop on. Especially if it's going to
be Linux-based. Get an SSD, a midrange CPU, and 8 gigs of RAM. The rest is
totally personal preference and has no real impact on development. What
hardware you're running is almost completely irrelevant for most development
jobs.

~~~
derrida
Agree... I have an i5, 8gb of ram with an SSD for $500. Save the $1200. Look
for Thinkpads on Ebay & just buy the SSD and extra RAM separately. 4gb of ram
is $20 at my local store.

~~~
krenel
I recommend you to buy the SSD and the extra memory at Crucial. The price is
very competitive and the hardware very good. I have both 8 gigs of memory and
128 SSD and I'm very happy with it.

The other think, that is a personal preference, is the size of the keyboard
and the keys. There are some laptops that have a small size of a key and this
is not the best kind for programing. The Lenovo keyboard are one of the best
out there (well, in MO, but it's the opinion of a lot Lenovo owners) and you
shuld really give it a shot.

I recommend you the series X of Lenovo and the X230[1] if you want a small but
powerful laptop (12.5''). This is the one I'm using and I'm very happy with
it. And if you want something bigger take a look at the X1 Carbon[2]. If you
buy the SSD and the extra memory in Curcial instead of Lenovo you will save
some bucks.

[1]
[http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo...](http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-
catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-
id=42D5009B1EABB377BFC4965EE083D306) [2]
[http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo...](http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-
catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-
id=0E6E3D0084869C3EB4172DA2F965A301)

------
nnnnnn
Macbook air 13", just uninstall Mac OS and install Ubuntu. I switched from PC
Laptop to Mac and will never look back. OS aside, the hardware is phenomenal,
easily the best hardware on the market. The ultrabooks are catching up but
they're still nowhere near the air.

I've been doing all my dev work on here and have been impressed with the
snapiness of the processor and SSD.

Good luck!

~~~
ziziyO
I wouldn't say easily the best hardware in the market. The zenbook prime
outclasses it in raw power, though the touchpad gets bad reviews.

I'd also give OSX a fair shot if you buy a Macbook Air. Most of your linux
tools are available for it.

~~~
jessedhillon
_Most of your linux tools are available for it._

Basic tools are available, like 'ls' and 'grep'.

Getting anything a little less popular requires what I would term "jumping
through hoops," as is the case with many Python dependencies I've encountered.
It's especially horrible if the thing needs to be compiled. For a platform
where the hardware always conforms to one of a set of fixed profiles, it's
bizarre that there isn't a binary package manager for these things.

~~~
eshvk
> it's bizarre that there isn't a binary package manager for these things.

There are three!

* Fink

* Macports

* Homebrew

There are countless articles on the internet on which one is better than the
other. The summary is that it depends on how closely you want the environment
to look like Linux.

~~~
hollerith
Macports installs everything from source. That is, it is not a _binary_
package manager.

------
zodiac
There was a rave review of the Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A by Jeff Atwood
recently

[http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/09/the-last-pc-
laptop....](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/09/the-last-pc-laptop.html)

~~~
minhajuddin
The zenbook has a 1.7 GHz processor. Most ultrabooks have processors with
speeds 1.5 to 1.8GHz, which might not be the best for development. A T430 with
SSD would be a much more compelling dev laptop.

~~~
b6
It looks like the T430's best resolution is 1600x900. The ZenBook is
1920x1080, 1.44 times as many pixels. This is the main reason I'm thinking
about getting the ZenBook.

~~~
zcrar70
I have a Zenbook and love it. Would recommend the UX32VD over the UX31, as you
can upgrade the SSD and the RAM. (Jeff Atwood actually uses the UX32VD - he
gave the UX31 to his wife.)

------
binarysolo
Going through Craigslist/eBay/Amazon, you can get a 17" MacBook Pro 2011 +
256GB SSD for about that price. Slap Ubuntu onto the 2nd partition or just
wipe it completely. I personally enjoy development mobility and need to crunch
data so I need the horsepower.

Alternately getting a 13" Macbook Air + a 27" LCD (Catleap/Yamasaki/Shimian or
another Korean flavor) + Apple display connector works beautifully as well,
having the options of mobility as well as a good home office screen.

~~~
cmsj
The 17" isn't what I would call portable ;) The thing is a wall of metal!

~~~
taligent
Actually you get used to it pretty quick. I regularly use it in bed for
coding, surfing websites etc. I think it just looks intimidating.

The best bit though is that it doubles as a breakfast tray for those Sunday
morning bacon, eggs and coffee.

------
eLobato
Asus S56CA + 180GB SSD + extra 4GB RAM (it only has two slots and one of them
comes with a 2GB memory).

<http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Superior_Mobility/S56CM/>

Would be around $1000 and its a beast. It's powerful enough for everything you
will want to do, battery is about 4.5 hours, and it has this NVIDIA Optimus
technology that switches between a powerful GT 635 and Intel Ivybridge
depending on your graphical needs so battery doesn't drain out that quickly. I
play Counter Strike: Global offensive on high res and it works perfectly. 4
different VMs? The SSD handles it. Need to develop 3d stuff on Android? No
probs. You'll need Bumblebee (OS project) to handle both GPUs but it's easy as
pie to install.

Also its an ultrabook so pretty thin. Not as lightweight as I'd like it to be
but still very portable.

~~~
Legogris
I have a GT 555M and last time I checked, I was not able to use two external
displays (one through VGA and one with HDMI) under Linux, even with Bumblebee.
Also, I don't think you get much of the actual benefits from Optimus through
Bumblebee. Mostly because of nVidia being douchy with their drivers.

My current solution is to boot to Windows and then work in Linux trough a VM.
It works, but if I would by a new laptop for Linux today I would try to avoid
Optimus.

------
mattspitz
Dell just released "Project Sputnik", which looks like a beast of Windows
ultrabook repurposed for Linux.

<http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx>

I'm also looking for a developer laptop. I'm not too thrilled about my
experience with OS X and I don't really feel compelled to dig through config
files to make basic things like the fan work. Sputnik looks interesting, as
it's configured with its own PPA for drivers specific to that machine, meaning
that someone else is looking at those config files for your specific setup.

You might be stuck with Ubuntu and have to clean out some "instant cloud"
features, though.

------
kushti
Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook NH570 - The real power(but 18'')
[http://www.notebookcheck.net/Fujitsu-LifeBook-
NH570-MF012DE....](http://www.notebookcheck.net/Fujitsu-LifeBook-
NH570-MF012DE.41623.0.html)

~~~
tluyben2
Fujitsu laptops are fantastic and their support is amazing. However; low
res... They need to spruce up the resolution to stay relevant. I would never
buy anything else if they do.

~~~
manveru
I'm using my third Fujitsu now, never had a single problem and the first one i
bought in 2004 still runs fine :)

I love their keyboards the most, but yeah, resolution isn't something they can
be proud of. Been thinking of getting their new ultrabook,
<http://www.fmworld.net/fmv/pcpm1210/uh/spec/> (around $1400 USD) but
resolution is only 1366×768, the same as the machine I already bought in 2010.
And if you look closely, even external monitors via HDMI are limited to
1920×1080 which is just mean.

------
antoncohen
For $1699 you can get either:

13" MacBook Air with 2.0GHz i7, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, or

13" MacBook Pro Retina, 2.5GHz i5, 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD

Don't worry about the Air's CPU speed, the i7 actually Turbo Boosts to 3.2GHz,
vs the Retina i5's 3.1GHz, plus it has an extra 1MB of cache. The choice is
basically crazy good display vs larger SSD.

Try using Mac OS X (depending on the type of development you are doing). It
can run almost anything Linux can, plus a lot of stuff Linux can't (Netflix,
WebEx, MS Office, Photoshop). Don't pretend your laptop is a production
environment, it will lead to problems, use Vagrant to run a realistic
production environment.

~~~
antihero
Window management on OSX is utterly hideous if you're used to a proper tiling
WM.

------
tzury
ThinkPad X1 Carbon.

------
cmsj
$1700 is retina MacBook Pro territory!

~~~
phaus
The retina Macbook Pro would be a good choice, but I haven't seen a single
review that didn't mention that the machine gets choppy even during web
browsing. Apple should have never released a retina Macbook with only
integrated graphics. It's a real shame because I really wanted a retina
machine that was roughly the size and weight of a Macbook Air, but not if it
struggles to run even the most basic of programs.

~~~
onetwothreefour
Any Apple v1 is usually going to have one downside. That's the rMBPs.

I was crazy enough to buy a v1 MBA. That thing ran so slowly due to
overheating it wasn't funny. Now they're the most awesome portable notebook
you can buy. :)

The v2 of a 13" rMBP might be the perfect laptop. :)

~~~
phaus
Yea, I know that it's technically a V1 for the 13", but you would think that
Apple would have noticed that the discrete graphics on the larger model (which
has only a slightly higher resolution) were barely getting the job done as it
was.

I have high hopes for the next version, I'm hoping that they can work out the
performance issues and at the same time implement retina screens into the
actual Macbook Air product line.

------
rileya
Thinkpad x230

I've had one for a few months now and it's been excellent, good keyboard,
great Linux support and really good battery life (with the 9-cell battery I
can get 8hrs+). It's nice and compact, and pretty darn light, if a little on
the thick side.

With 8gb of RAM, 128gb SSD, and a midrange Core i5 it runs about $1200-1300,
but you could probably buy the RAM/SSD separately and save a fair amount.

The one weak point is the screen resolution (1366x768), but the screen is IPS
and very good quality otherwise.

------
pajju
If portability is your primary concern go with - Macbook Air 13" or any Asus
ultrabook's with i5 3rd generation and 13" screen size, considering you are
fixed with Debian.

Your feature checklist should have 8Gigs or more expandable RAM + Excellent
display resolution + Battery backup + at least minimum 128GB SSD.

A checkpoint - Most ultrabooks have many many driver issues, esp graphics, so
do a research.

Best safe bet is to go with Mac Air 13", they run perfect! Worth mentioning
the huge community of users.

------
ixacto
You can get a thinkpad off of ebay for <700 that will run debian or ubuntu +
compiz if you want it.

------
6d65
My next development laptop will certainly be thinkpad x1 carbon. 8GB of RAM
and 256 SSD are enough for running development virtual machines. My current
machine is good enough but i will buy it when they'll upgrade to Haswell CPU's
and maybe some higher resolution screens.

------
kyriakos
Whatever you get make sure its display is high res enough. Coding in an IDE
like Eclipse or Visual Studio on screen resolution smaller than 1080p is a
pain. I still don't understand why most laptops nowadays still have 720p
screens.

------
18hrs
I recently learned about these guys: <http://zareason.com/shop/Laptops/>

If I were on the market for a dev machine today my choice would be between
their UltraLap 430 and Dell's XPS 13.

------
general_failure
XPS 13 easily.

[http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/dell-releases-
powerfu...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/dell-releases-powerful-
well-supported-linux-ultrabook/)

------
RivieraKid
Samsung NP900X3C, probably the best ultrabook. It has slightly higher
resolution than the newest Air, matte screen, is slighly lighter and thinner.

------
SanjeevSharma
My vote for the MacBook Air 13'. Hands down. I installed Windows 8 on it
(bootcamp) and have Ubuntu running in a VM.

------
z3phyr
I have hp mini 1000 netbook, with Ubuntu + XMonad. Everything under $300.

