

Nexus One - tshtf
http://www.google.com/phone

======
blasdel
Why the hell are they so insistent on fucking up the storage situation on
Android phones?

The N1 has just 512mb flash built in, and while it has a Micro SD slot for
your media, Android will only use the system flash for storing the OS, apps,
and app data. They screwed up earlier with the G1 which only had 256mb, not
enough to install any official OS updates, and instead of learning their
lesson they just bumped it up one notch.

While users may plead loudly about how they want expandable storage, they
fucking hate it when you make them manage what's stored where, and this is not
a UI area you're going to be able to polish. 4gb of flash is the bare minimum
you can get away with, and premium SKUs with 32gb+ are a given -- this is your
chance to pile on markup without anyone complaining.

Apple's abhorrence towards removable storage isn't just because Jobs is a
dick, or the form factor compromises, but simply because it's a usability
nightmare.

~~~
mtinkerhess
The kind of person that picks up an Android phone is tech-savvy enough to
handle manual file storage. I like it, actually, because it lets me use my
phone as a flash drive.

Regarding app data, from the Gizmodo liveblog:

 _They store apps in the internal ROM and not on the SD card now, for piracy
reasons, but they will offer an upgrade soon for installing apps on the SD
card._

~~~
jrockway
The piracy reasons are silly. It is trivial to copy Android apps from one
phone to another, "private" or not.

~~~
durin42
Without rooting the phone, how is this trivial?

~~~
callahad
Does buying the dev phone count as rooting?

~~~
houseabsolute
You betcha.

------
jluxenberg
FYI, for AT&T customers considering making the plunge:

 _The currently available Nexus One device is unlocked and will recognize SIM
cards from any mobile service provider using the GSM standard, but is
incompatible with the frequency band used by the AT &T and Rogers networks for
3G data (see below)._ (
[http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?answer=1...](http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?answer=166507)
)

No 3G data on AT&T! Shucks.

~~~
j_b_f
I can confirm this. Stuck my AT&T SIM in my N1 and no 3G. Here's the deal:

Most of the world = 3G 2100, AT&T = 3G 850/1900, T-Mo USA = 3G 1700/2100 MHz,
Nexus One = 3G 900/1700/2100. (For reference, iPhone 3G = 3G 850/1900/2100).

~~~
cliff
It's actually a little more complicated than this and the terminology makes it
very confusing. The key to this is that the frequency band is different from
the actual frequencies used for the radio.

Much of the world's 3G usage is on the 2100 frequency band. This actually
operates on two frequency ranges, ~1900 uplink and ~2100 downlink.

In this same vein, AT&T has 2 separate frequency bands, 850 and 1900. 850
operates on ~824/~869 and 1900 operates on ~1850/~1930.

T-Mo actually only has one 3G frequency band, 1700 MHz. This operates on
~1710/~2100, but actually this is not compatible with the world-wide 2100
frequency band.

Most, if not all, 3G T-Mo USA phones support at least the 1700 and 2100
frequency bands. Nexus One also supports 900 MHz, which makes sense since
Vodafone uses that band in Europe and Nexus One will soon be on Vodafone.

See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands> for more exact
details.

~~~
j_b_f
Sure, I get that. But the description above should suffice for most people.
It's the same terminology used by the GSM Association:
<http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml> (this link is awesome in
that it shows you what bands the different carriers use for various services)

~~~
cliff
The description might be sufficient, but it's inaccurate. You can't say AT&T
850/1900 and T-Mo 1700/2100 in one sentence. It's not the same context. You
can say AT&T 850/1900 and T-Mo 1700.

The point is it's more difficult for phone manufacturers to make world phones
for AT&T because they have to use up two bands just for AT&T, and those two
bands are not commonly used in Europe or Asia.

~~~
j_b_f
Okay, yeah, you're right. But the takeaway is that while the two American
networks are incompatible both the N1 and the iPhone should support world
roaming equally well.

------
kenshi
How different to the days of working at Symbian (many years ago).

There:

Engineers: "We should do X, Y and Z!"

Technology Managers: "Our owners/partners don't want us to do any of that. We
have a five year lead on the competition, we don't need to do this stuff."

Google Nexus One announcement:

"Together with those partners, we have increased the rate of innovation. The
volume [and] variety of Android phones... have exceeded our expectations. But
we want to do more and one of the questions we asked ourselves a long time ago
was, 'What if we worked even more closely with our partners to bring devices
to the market that are going to help showcase very quickly the technology
we're working at on Google."

My prediction for the mobile industry: further disruption.

------
jwr
"Sorry, the Nexus One phone is not available in your country."

Oh, well. Another boring phone which isn't even available. Let's move on,
then.

~~~
electromagnetic
Agreed, give me a blackberry, at least their new phones come out in all
countries within a reasonable time. I'll say hello to the Nexus One in about
two years when the american companies decide to get their thumbs out of their
collective asses.

~~~
borism
Haven't seen Blackberry in my country or any neighboring country, EVER.

Maybe by all countries you mean both US _and_ UK? :)

------
mcantor
Still holding out for a similar phone with a hardware keyboard. BTW, I've
heard tell that the Droid has a hardware keyboard, but you can't feel the
difference between keys, making it less usable than the G1's keyboard. Can
anyone corroborate that?

~~~
j_b_f
I have a Nexus One and I have to say I've quickly become ALMOST as good at
typing as I was on the iPhone. Sometimes the lack of multi-touch (pressing one
key while you're letting up on another) bites you in the ass but it's pretty
rare.

My primary issue with the keyboard is that it's very close to the four un-
beveled buttons below the screen. I'll quite often hit "back" when I mean to
hit "?123" which is pretty annoying.

I've also had good success with the new voice recognition feature for short
emails and text messages.

Overall the keyboard is much less polished than the iPhone but I was
pleasantly surprised at how usable it was.

~~~
s3graham
Why's the pressing one key while you're letting up another a problem?
Presumably it's either registering on press or release, but not both? Or is
there more complicated fancy business going on?

~~~
j_b_f
If you type fast enough you'll often be pressing the second key with your
other thumb before the first thumb has quite left the keyboard. The iPhone
allows for this but the N1 doesn't (or doesn't appear to in limited testing).

------
symesc
I love the approach here: unsubsidized or subsidized, your choice.

~~~
mrkurt
If only they were selling it at sane unsubsidized prices.

~~~
cmgarcia
Seems pretty sane to me, compared to other HTC phones' unsubsidized prices.

~~~
jluxenberg
Seriously? Parts can't be more than $200 for this. I mean, they sell the iPod
Touch for $200 which costs $155 to make (
[http://iphonetouch.blorge.com/2007/12/19/ipod-touch-bests-
ip...](http://iphonetouch.blorge.com/2007/12/19/ipod-touch-bests-iphones-
internal-design-costs-155-to-make/) ). Is a GSM radio IC expensive? Hell no.
They're in bed with the carriers, and they're even worse than Apple because
they're trying to say that they aren't.

~~~
numbchuckskills
Seriously? I despise this worn out arguement.

Sure, the parts might cost $155; but you can't do much without knowing how to
connect the parts together, and without spending millions on finding the right
combination of parts.

And then there's the software on top of that which others have noted.

~~~
mrkurt
The parts are the variable cost, software and know how are largely fixed. In a
normal market, prices would trend towards the variable cost. The US cell phone
market, however, is an oligopoly of large carriers that push the "retails"
prices on phones high so they can lock people into contracts by selling the
"subsidized" phones. Thus, prices won't trend towards the marginal cost.
They'll stay high.

That's a long winded way of saying: if carriers (and handset makers) didn't
have a massive chubby for long term contracts, prices on handsets would be
much, much lower. The iPod Touch is a good example of that. It's obviously
worth Apple selling it for a ~30% margin, assuming the $155 parts cost is
correct. What do you suppose the margins on the actual iPhone are?

------
acangiano
As usual, not available in Canada.

~~~
notaddicted
I'm in Canada as well.

Could someone tell me: what is the unsubsidized price?

~~~
teuobk
The unsubsidized price is US$529, but it operates on a frequency band that is
incompatible with the Rogers 3G network, so that won't really help you
Canadians, eh.

~~~
acangiano
But it should work with Wind Mobile (<http://www.wind.ca>).

~~~
MikeCapone
"Home Zones" only in Toronto and Calgary right now, though.

<http://care.windmobile.ca/Support/CoverageMap/roaming.aspx>

------
pelle
The interesting thing that I haven't seen many talk about is that the
subsidized phone is still apparently unlocked. Which makes it great for
traveling etc. This alone would be a really big deal for me.

This also means that as long as you stick with the plan for at least 120 days
you can get out of the contract and still use the phone for TMobiles $200
early termination fee.

While I love my iPhone it really annoys me that there is no way I can pay AT&T
to unlock it like I would be able to in most European countries.

~~~
eli
T-Mobile has unlocked all my subsidized phones for me. Unlike most providers,
you just have to ask and they send you the code. I believe you have to be a
customer in good standing for a few months first.

------
brown9-2
I was hoping that as an existing T-Mobile customer, I'd be able to use one of
those "upgrade discounts" for the Nexus One. The good news is that I can, the
bad news is that as an existing customer I get the unsubsidized price:

 _Congratulations! You qualify for an upgrade. There may be changes to your
service plan and your contract will be renewed for 2 years from the activation
of your upgraded phone.

Phone $529.00

Service Plan Discount - $150.00

Total: $379.00 (excluding tax and shipping)_

~~~
JshWright
If you're eligible to upgrade, are you eligible to cancel your service?
(Followed by becoming a "new customer" 5 minutes later)

~~~
eli
You want to keep the same phone number, right?

~~~
JshWright
Isn't that what Google Voice is for (assuming you've generated a new number in
GV)?

------
riobard
The screen is a 3.7 inch AMOLED 480x800@250 DPI!! Awesome!! This is better
than laser printing resolution!

~~~
handelaar
For values of 'better' meaning '30% lower', sure.

~~~
riobard
No. 300 DPI printing is not the same as 300 DPI on screen, because one dot on
screen can be multiple colors (depending on the color depth, typically
16,777,216 can be expected), while one dot on paper is, well, either black or
white. So for the same DPI, screen outperforms paper. 250 DPI on screen will
definitely beat 300 DPI on paper.

~~~
DougBTX
After a quick search, I see you can get a 1200 dpi black and white laser
printer for less than $100. Colour printers can overlay colours or pre mix the
ink.

~~~
rbanffy
And modulate the size of the dots.

------
whalesalad
I just ordered one myself for $529, free overnight shipping and $0 tax to
Honolulu, Hawaii. I couldn't be more excited!

~~~
j_b_f
I heard that T-Mo just got their 3G up and running in HNL. Great device to
test it out on!

------
nick-dap
This is quite bland... I'm trying hard to see how this particular device is
innovative and I just don't see it.

Different branding, ok, better screen, ok, you can get it unlocked for an
astronomical price and use it with a carrier of your choice, ok. So is every
other new phone.

It's Android and Android is the future or something? What am I missing?

------
pibefision
I bet Nexus One has a problem on battery usage, and this is one of the most
critical things on smartphones, and RIM's guys know this very well.

You cannot get an out of battery in a middle of the day. If you work outside
as many of you, this is an essential feature.

This happens often on many new smarphones, specially with processors so fast,
they run out of battery.

I can use my BlackBerry Bold all day without a charge (using 3g), I doubt can
do the same thing with this.

Also the price is prohibitive outside USA.

~~~
davidw
I've been doing lots of BlackBerry hacking lately (working on the Hecl port),
and compared to Android, those guys just don't "get it". Everything is a pain
in the neck, very fiddly, Windows only, and often quirky. They're nice
devices, but RIM just doesn't strike me as being able to turn around and
produce a development experience that's pleasant.

In terms of that price, it's 368 euros at current rates, which is certainly
high, but about what you'd see for other high end phones, and a lot lower than
you'd pay for an iPhone.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
Usually vendors "forget" to use proper exchange rates and instead use
something closer to the nominal USD price in euros.

~~~
davidw
Yep. Apple prices recently have been pretty much one to one even though the
Euro was hovering around $1.50. It will be interesting to see what they do
with this.

------
carbocation
From David Pogue (
[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/technology/personaltech/06...](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/technology/personaltech/06pogue.html?hp)
)"The Nexus can accommodate memory cards up to 32 gigabytes (a 4 gigabyte card
comes with it) — and yet, inexplicably, the Nexus allots only the tiniest
sliver of that (190 megabytes) for downloaded apps."

If this is a hard limit, this will be a total dealbreaker.

~~~
technomancy
What is this term "hard limit" of which you speak? Is it something related to
proprietary software?

~~~
vetinari
Yes and no.

The "No" part: Android system has (at least) three partitions - system, cache
and data. Data is where applications get installed. Cache is used, well, for
caching data and it must be at least the same size as system (because it holds
system image when updating over the air).

I don't know for sure how it is partitioned in N1, just guessing: the data
partition is 192M, leaving 160M for system and 160M for cache.

The "Yes" part: android partitions on proprietary hardware (and N1 is
proprietary hardware, just as G1/ADP1 is) are defined in proprietary boot
loader. There is currently no way to change them without going through the
risk of having $500 brick on your table.

------
bdmac97
I really do not understand what all the fuss was about. It's just another HTC
Android phone. What does Google really even have to do with it (any more than
all the other Android phones)? It seems like HTC could've just held their own
press conference without involving Google but of course then there'd be no
hype!

~~~
borism
There you are answering your own question.

It seems another difference is that this time HTC is just a subcontractor,
while Google really takes over marketing of N1.

~~~
bdmac97
I guess from that viewpoint it's moderately interesting but as a phone it's
really not much to get excited about compared to other modern Android phones
like the Droid. Bah... I was expecting something huge!

~~~
technomancy
The Droid is CDMA, which is a deal-killer for anyone travelling
internationally. Also it's the first time in the US that a major phone has
been sold with an option to buy it without a contract. This is fantastic from
a user freedom perspective as Telco contracts in the US are typically quite
abusive.

------
martythemaniak
Too bad there are no plans on offering this as a development phone along with
the G1 and G3

------
charlesju
Does anyone know if I can buy a Nexus One and use it without a cell phone
plan? Or if not, is there any Android phone that I can buy to use without a
sim card?

~~~
lliiffee
You could certainly buy one and use it with a non-contract pay as you go kind
of plan. To use voice, of course, you would need _some_ sim card. Or do you
want to just use it with wifi, like an iPod touch?

~~~
joeyo
But you could use Google Voice without a sim card, right?

------
swolchok
So the Google Voice app doesn't do any fancy VoIP, it just uses the phone as a
phone? What happens if you just have WiFi and try to use GV?

------
billybob
I'd say that, although this is the best Android phone yet, the phone itself is
not revolutionary.

The most important aspect of this story will be if the sales model catches on:
buying your phone one place, and activating it another. The more people shop
for the best phone, then for the best network, the more competitive pressure
is on both to improve.

------
tfincannon
Does anyone know if the speech recognition for text fields is done onboard the
phone, or uploaded to Google?

~~~
s3graham
I have no knowledge or hardware, but I'd bet on it being server-side.

~~~
pbz
I hope that's not the case. If you're out of a 3G area it would not work
(right).

~~~
s3graham
Hmm, good point. I was assuming that it'd be too slow on the client, but maybe
the opposite is actually true.

------
tvon
It no doubt is the nicest Android phone to date, but for the most part it
sounds like it has been wildly over-hyped.

The only thing that seems to make this a "Google Phone" is that Google is
selling it.

~~~
jonknee
... And Google made all the software for it. What more do you want? Google
Fab?

~~~
tvon
Well, if Microsoft was selling a "Microsoft Phone", you'd expect something
more than just a phone (albeit a nice one) with Windows Mobile installed,
wouldn't you?

~~~
jonknee
Not at all. Just like when I use a "Microsoft mouse" I don't expect it to
navigate for me. It's a mouse.

------
ryanelkins
I have a T-Mobile plan right now - went to check on upgrade pricing through
google's site but apparently their servers have crashed. I'm thinking I may
wait for Verizon to get the phone...

~~~
brown9-2
Getting the same thing as of 3:54pm EST:

 _We are currently unable to process your request for service with T-Mobile.

T-Mobile's servers are busy or unreachable.

You can try again later, or you can purchase the unlocked phone without
service._

------
muriithi
"Sorry, the Nexus One phone is not available in your country."

------
alanl
Definitely doesn’t beat the iPhone IMHO, but Google are moving at such
lightning fast pace, I'm guessing we might see a Nexus 2 before the end of the
year.

------
adatta02
Really disappointed there isn't Verizon support yet :(

~~~
txxxxd
Spring 2010 is only a few months away =)

------
bithaze
Tech specs indicate 802.11n; does anyone know if there's actually any
noticeable difference in n over g when using a mobile processor/device?

~~~
jsz0
I doubt it but it's allows you to run your N access point in native mode with
no B/G compatibility if your SmartPhone was the last device holding you back
from going straight N.

------
waterlesscloud
What's the monthly price of the plan with tmobile? For unlimited voice/data or
whatever their closest option is?

~~~
bithaze
If you buy the Nexus One with the T-Mobile plan, $79.99/month includes 500
minutes and unlimited data. It's detailed on the first step of the order
process: <https://www.google.com/phone/choose>

~~~
kylec
Isn't the "T-Mobile Even More individual 500 Plan" $39.99 + $30 for unlimited
data? This would come to $69.99, not $79.99.

~~~
bithaze
Unlimited Domestic Messaging is an additional $10.00 not included in Android
Unlimited Web.

------
gcb
Sorry, the Nexus One phone is not available in your country.

------
jqueryin
As usual, a crappy carrier unless you want to shell out the $530. God I hate
all these contractual obligations. AT&T bends over backwards for the iPhone,
where's my Nexus One love :(

~~~
whalesalad
I'm not sure why T-Mobile is so hated on. I've never had problems with them,
and haven't had any dropped calls I can think of. AT&T is total garbage,
especially with iPhone users supersaturating the network. The "Even More Plus"
plans basically translate to contract-free. I pay $59 a month for unlimited
data/text, unlimited nights and weekends, unlimited t-mo to t-mo, and get 500
minutes. I don't talk a ton, so it's perfect. My equivalent iPhone plan was
$99 a month, for lesser service.

~~~
technomancy
T-Mobile is also significantly less evil than other carriers in that they're
the only ones who are willing to unlock phones for their customers. Of course
in a perfect world they wouldn't have the gall to sell you a locked phone in
the first place, but if you explain that you're travelling internationally,
they're usually quite obliging.

