
Samsung Stops Galaxy Note 7 Smartphone Shipments as Safety Suspicions Spread - Doolwind
http://www.wsj.com/articles/samsung-stops-smartphone-shipments-as-safety-suspicions-spread-1472726756
======
peterjlee
Samsung just announced that they will replace all 2.5 million Note 7 sold so
far.

[http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/02/reuters-america-brief-
samsung...](http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/02/reuters-america-brief-samsung-says-
will-replace-all-problematic-note-7s-sold-or-shipped.html)

~~~
bArray
That's not going to be cheap! Must be pretty serious for them to come to that
conclusion. No doubt somebody will have some stern words said to them over
this, been in one of those meetings.

------
_Codemonkeyism
Got mine 5min after @Samsung told me they stop delivery.

Now unopened package on my desk.

Very angry at Samsung, their ecommerce shop (3 tries until ordering worked),
delivery notification (10 hours late for every update), delivery (wrong
delivery address from their system to DHL) has been very bad already. For an
850 EUR premium device. I will never buy from them again.

And now this.

Probably returning and getting an iPhone7.

~~~
blub
You really have no idea how much crap Samsung is doing. Their entire business
model is basically copy what the established players are doing, but not
obviously enough to get sued and then undercut them on price. They screwed up
once with Apple, but otherwise it works fine for them.

Then there's the bizarre sexist ads, refusing to pay the return flight for
bloggers if they don't praise Samsung and other stories.

I wouldn't buy anything from them even if their customer support were great.

~~~
kuschku
Yet, they absolutely dominate the smart phone market outside of the US, having
not just a relative majority, but an absolute majority.

~~~
neotek
That's true, but market share is a pointless metric, since ultimately all it
takes to get market share is money - the more you spend on advertising, the
more you discount your product, the more people will own it regardless of how
good or bad it is.

What matters is profit share, and Apple vacuums up nearly 100% of the profit
in the smartphone world, and meanwhile Samsung silently prays that some day it
will be within earshot of just breaking even.

~~~
Nursie
Matters to who? Why?

I don't give much of a crap if my vendor makes a profit, I care about user
experience and app support. A big market share certainly impacts the latter.

Samsung do make profit on their smartphones, by the way, not sure what makes
you think otherwise.

( Edit -- 1Q 2016 they reported a profit of around 3.3 billion dollars on
their mobile operations, source - [http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/28/samsung-has-
got-its-mojo-back...](http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/28/samsung-has-got-its-mojo-
back-as-smartphone-profits-surge-42.html) )

------
milankragujevic
My, rather cheap, Samsung phone had it's battery puff up and after I put the
battery in a metal container for a month, it did catch fire and burn for a
short time inside the container. That's a rather known problem for a Galaxy S3
Mini and such. I had to buy a new battery. So it might not be surprising that
a same problem has occurred with the Note 7, it might be a bad battery
supplier.

~~~
behnamoh
The surprising part is that Note product line is supposed to be pretty mature
after all these years, but we still observe these childish issues in the final
product. If you're copying from Apple or others, at least do it right.

~~~
dingo_bat
Apple has copied more from the note series than vice versa.

~~~
ceejayoz
Like what?

And no, Android features Apple copied from _Google_ don't count.

~~~
Nursie
Well, the phablet form factor - the Samsung note range did create (or perhaps
reveal) that particular market, which Apple eventually decided to move into.

Software-wise, I have no idea as I've never really used an iPhone.

~~~
ceejayoz
If you're going to credit Samsung for the phablet form factor then you need to
credit Apple for the iPhone and iPad form factor it built off, and so on and
so forth.

~~~
Nursie
I'm not the initial poster and have no interest in defending the initial claim
about who contributed more, I just wanted to give one example where Samsung
lead the market and Apple followed.

Presumably we should also be giving credit to MS for their early pushing of
the tabletpc form-factor. It's all evolutionary...

------
chubs
The timing re the iPhone 7, which is coming out in a few days, is terrible for
Samsung. I imagine customers will have to return their Note, and then many
will strongly consider the new iPhone. If this happened even a month ago, that
would be far less of an issue.

------
nradov
I feel a sense of schadenfreude over this after Samsung decided to disregard
their loyal Note series customers and put a non-removable battery in the Note
7. Terrible decision.

~~~
rorykoehler
I'll never buy Samsung again after owning Note 2. Memory failed after 2 and a
bit years. I found out it was a known issue. I had bought it with the
intention of using it 4-5 years. When spending that kind of money I'd expect
only the best components. The fact that they used poor ones in their flagship
product doesn't speak well for them.

~~~
jdavis703
How do you handle security issues with such an outdated phone?

~~~
rorykoehler
I'd root it and install latest Android.

~~~
nradov
That only works if you can get device drivers.

------
taspeotis
Reuters has a short article (sans any named source) that Samsung will issue a
global recall [1].

[http://www.reuters.com/article/samsung-elec-smartphones-
reca...](http://www.reuters.com/article/samsung-elec-smartphones-recall-
idUSS6N19U01C?type=companyNews)

------
sengork
Unfortunately the last two release cycles of the Note series have been feature
downgrades ever since Note 4.

Fun fact - this is not a maths error, Samsung skipped Note 6 branding and went
straight to 7 to match their S7 release names.

~~~
dingo_bat
What features did the Note 4 have that the Note 7 does not? I think the IR
blaster is definitely missing.

~~~
sengork
UV light sensor which for some reason needed location data to measure
correctly. I've never understood why this is required as it should be able to
read raw data based on incoming light.

~~~
sengork
And less megapixels for the camera, although this is not a conclusively bad
thing...

------
exorcet
If they'd just made the damn thing with a removable battery like the note4 and
older this would be a much easier, and cheaper, problem to deal with.

~~~
mixedCase
I might have actually have bought one in the first place. I don't buy any
phone I can't get a replaceable, extended battery for.

I'm still rocking a Galaxy S3 with a Hyperion 7000mAh battery which easily
lasts 3 days without recharging and am only looking to replace it because I
got the international version, with no LTE and only 1GB of RAM. If I had
gotten the South Korean version I would keep on using it until it broke.

~~~
vthallam
Didn't knew until today that there are 7000 mAh batteries which can fit in
samsung phones, interesting. Why do you think the companies are not going for
these kind of batteries in the first place?

~~~
mixedCase
Fashion, mostly. Skinny jeans and thick smartphones are a problem.

Also the mentality that thinner==better being mainstream.

What boggles my mind is companies like LG, who offer phones with replaceable
batteries not selling their own high-capacity batteries. Maybe they fear
people will see someone with the extended battery and believe that is the
regular phone?

------
jobigoud
Aggravating is the fact that this device goes into the new GearVR, so strapped
to your head and just a few centimeters from your eyes.

------
mschuster91
I hope Samsung (and others) learn from this clusterfuck and decide to employ
user-replaceable batteries in the future.

I had my Note 1 battery also expand in volume - probably due to a crappy
charger and the electronics didn't filter voltage fluctuation enough - and had
to get rid of it before it exploded.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
> I hope Samsung (and others) learn from this clusterfuck and decide to employ
> user-replaceable batteries in the future.

Na. Won't happen and honestly I'm fine with it. Replaceable batteries are a
very tiny niche that the vast majority of users not only don't care about but
don't want to have to deal with. It also further complicates waterproofing.
You can even shove a larger battery in the phone if it's not replaceable.

> I had my Note 1 battery also expand in volume - probably due to a crappy
> charger and the electronics didn't filter voltage fluctuation enough - and
> had to get rid of it before it exploded

To be fair it's supposed to expand versus catching fire / exploding so it
doesn't necessarily indicate that it _will_ explode though you should most
certainly get rid of it ASAP.

~~~
mschuster91
> It also further complicates waterproofing.

I own a CAT B15Q, which sports a replaceable battery and is waterproof enough
to have earned back its price by betting random people in bars "can this phone
survive dunking into a mug of beer".

> To be fair it's supposed to expand versus catching fire / exploding so it
> doesn't necessarily indicate that it will explode though you should most
> certainly get rid of it ASAP.

Yes, but with a fixed backplate you won't see the battery expanding until it's
too late. Also, phone vendors can't ship the battery separate from the phone,
which has two issues:

1) no more "take out the battery" to reboot the phone, as vendor you have to
rely on a secondary processor to monitor a key combination for rebooting - and
if this goes wrong, no way short of disassembly to force a reboot.

2) as Samsung is experiencing right now (and various manufacturers before
them), extremely expensive callbacks in case of battery defects. With
replaceable batteries, just give any store (or the consumer!) a way of
checking if the battery is vulnerable (a simple web interface with a serial
number input), and a stock of replacement batteries, and it's done in under 5
minutes. Disassembling will usually require specially equipped stores (clean
rooms, replacement glues, special training for nondestructive opening, ...)
and time, both of which are expensive and reduce the number of service points
available to the consumer.

------
consto
I have to respect Samsung for doing a recall correctly, not like how
Whirlpoint are bungling their dryer recall. Years wait for someone to come
around and fix it! In the mean time do they really think that people can just
stop using the dryers.

------
obihill
Never liked Samsung phones (Google Nexus 5 user still), but this is really
annoying for their customers. I'm even sadder for those who buy these
expensive phones unsubsidized.

------
pcurve
wonder what they're going to do with 2.5 million phones they take back. I
don't think they would dare sell them as refurb units.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
Replace battery, sell them as new is what I bet on. Fishy yes. Compared to
taking a 1B$ hit easy for excecutives.

~~~
taspeotis
> sell them as new

That's what they did for their washing machines that also caught on fire [1].

[1]
[http://www.samsung.com/au/washingmachinerecall/](http://www.samsung.com/au/washingmachinerecall/)
"Did Samsung apply the rework to machines prior to sale? "

------
shimon_e
Will airlines ban carrying the Note 7 on board?

~~~
peter303
The might ban putting them in luggage. Most people carry theirs.

------
bArray
__EDIT: __The Korea Herald indicates that the issues appear to be originating
from faulty ITM battery packs [2].

 __OLD: __

Going along with the assumption there is some fault with the devices...

Essentially they should just sit there in shipping unless there is an
external/internal battery short, extreme temperature or puncture. I assume the
batteries were not punctured sitting in their target package after all the
testing they must do and the fact these batteries can handle the temperatures
of shipping (this is done all of the time).

"Sister company Samsung SDI Co Ltd (006400.KS) said that while it was a
supplier of Galaxy Note 7 batteries, it had received no information to suggest
the batteries were faulty." [1]

These batteries are made and tested all of the time, I would hope the
technology is quite well understood my now which for me would rule out the
likelihood of internal battery failure. Samsung also tend make quite high
quality equipment in general in my personal opinion.

For me that leaves two likely possibilities, the phones were somehow switched
on during travel (potentially through vibration or bad software) or bad
circuit design meaning some current draw in given scenarios allowing the
batteries to warm up.

My money would be on the devices turning on during shipping due to a crate
knock or large shock. If a pallet fell of a fork lift or some semi-large force
to the devices, I wouldn't be surprised if the low-profile power button was
pressed inwards, switching the devices on.

If I remember rightly, Samsung devices ship in cardboard, acting both as
insulation and something to get the fire going. A nice large hot display and
hot battery well insulated would be enough to do a bit of thermal escalation.
I would imagine it would only take one to turn on to do the trick. If I were
Samsung I would switch one on, stick it back in it's packaging and wrap it in
bubble wrap to simulate the condition of being in the middle of a pallet.

[1] [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-
smartphones-i...](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-smartphones-
idUSKCN1161BL)

[2]
[http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160901000855](http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160901000855)

~~~
ghshephard
That theory (issue with shipping) doesn't seem to be consistent with a global
recall.

~~~
bArray
I stand corrected.

After reading "The Korean Herald" [1], it does appear you're right about them
considering a global recall.

"Thus far, explosions have been reported on the phones using the ITM battery
pack." [1]

"Amid growing concerns among consumers, Samsung is considering recalling all
the Note phones and exchanging the battery free of charge." [1]

I'm really surprised, seems like the suppliers of the batteries have some
lacking quality control. This isn't something I would expect from a major
competitor to Apple, usually there is ridiculously over-the-top quality
control from these companies.

[1]
[http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160901000855](http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160901000855)

------
hetfeld
My Samsung Galaxy S7 heats up aswell while charging and using phone.

It's not okay too... I fear that it will blow up someday.

~~~
majortennis
not sure whether to worry

~~~
hetfeld
well, it will some day blow up.

i'm glad that i don't play Pokemon anymore, because it's turning off everytime
i've played it after 15 minutes or so.

------
bArray
I know news sites making viewing a paid-for experience is relatively new, but
it feels kind of wrong to bring closed source information onto HN. Regardless
of quality, it's generally frowned upon.

This link could be replaced by the link below without sacrificing quality (it
may actually be the original source too):

[http://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-
smartphones-i...](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-smartphones-
idUSKCN1161BL)

~~~
aembleton
\- Add refcontrol[1] for Firefox, or some alternative for Chrome.

\- RefControl > Options > Add Site

\- Enter site as www.wsj.com and Action as
[https://www.google.com](https://www.google.com)

You can also use this trick for ft.com and probably a few other sites.

1\. [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
GB/firefox/addon/refcontrol/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
GB/firefox/addon/refcontrol/)

~~~
nacs
Thanks for the tip!

Works for me on Chrome with "Referer Control" extension:

[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/referer-
control/hn...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/referer-
control/hnkcfpcejkafcihlgbojoidoihckciin?hl=en)

