

Edward Tufte's impression of Windows Phone 7 - coliveira
http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0003cy&topic_id=1&topic=Ask+E.T.

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yatsyk
duplicate: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1161922>

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macrael
This analysis seems spot on. Windows Phone Seven's low information density has
troubled me from the first time I saw it. On a small screen like a phone,
pixels should be precious. The fact that the contacts app uses a fifth of its
screen telling me that I'm in the contacts app seems objectively wasteful.

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Avshalom
Unless Microsoft decided to approach it as a phone first and a tiny computer
second, and from the homes screen being ~50% phone features I'm guessing they
did. Information density on a phone can be extremely low.

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keithwarren
The irony here is that Tufte goes on about bad interfaces etc yet his own web
site is hopelessly locked in 1995.

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bisceglie
perhaps you confuse style with design?

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keithwarren
His site definitely lacks style but I would argue the design is from that era
as well. To be fair, I doubt he designed the look and feel of his site - and
the truth is most great designers tend to have crappy sites because they are
busy with real work and dont need to market themselves that heavily. I would
guess he is probably in that boat, he doesnt really care about his web site
because he has much more important things to do.

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slantyyz
You have to remember that Tufte's area of specialty is in the area of
visualizing quantitative information. He's not a designer (although he is a
sculptor, apparently) or GUI guru even if he has opinions on them.

Clearly a "dated" design isn't enough to stop you from visiting a site. Hacker
News definitely has a dated feel too.

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Kliment
Does it? I think it's the wave of the future. Or at least I hope it is. It's
as close to pure content and zero chrome as I've seen anywhere. Tufte's site
may look old, but it's fairly information-dense, and the comment system is the
best I've seen anywhere.

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slantyyz
My comment was intended less as a critique of Tufte or HN than to point out
that the parent post's criticism on Tufte's site is a little off base.

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oloolo
Tufte's site is s piece of crap, completely ridiculous. Criticizing websites
is easy, making websites is hard. You're not an expert in user interface
design if you haven't done user interface design.

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slantyyz
Your first sentence sort of illustrates your second sentence's point, no?

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oloolo
Well, in contrast to Tufte, I actually have built a couple of Interfaces...

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slantyyz
Sure, but just because he hasn't designed an interface doesn't invalidate his
opinion. His opinions are mostly from the perspective of his field, which in
some ways influence user interface design.

Many user interfaces use elements (he did invent sparklines) and principles he
has talked about in his books.

I mean seriously, if Joe User criticizes a user interface is he wrong because
he hasn't designed an interface before?

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oloolo
The difference between an interface designer and a user is:

1\. The designer knows many opinions (and due to being exposed to an avalanche
of user feedback over the years you really see interfaces in a panopticum).
But you never get enough. It's like a drug.

2\. The user only knows his opinion. Every user opinion is important--to the
designer.

Tufte is just an intelligent eloquent user. His interface design competence is
as weak as his photography.

Without working in the field you don't get this perspective on interfaces.
Tufte has an intelligent riff, but it's always the same professoral top-down
"it-has-to-be-so-and-so", and sometimes he's just plain subjectively
irrelevant.

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slantyyz
Based on the tone of your commentary, I'm not convinced you believe the second
part to #2.

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code_duck
Microsoft definitely has a soft spot for blockiness and overly large fonts.
There were doing this with the Kin too - I agree that it is overstyled and not
the greatest interface from close-up.

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sp332
Yeah, but at least it's Frutiger. I'm not a hardcore type nerd, but I remember
that because it was the first thing about WinPhone7 that made me believe I
might like it.

Microsoft has made some fairly nice fonts like Calibri, Consolas, Cambria etc.
so the fact they went with a really good third-party font like Frutiger told
me that "NIH", seemingly endemic to Microsoft product development, was not an
issue. It was no guarantee, of course, but it was an indication that the team
was making a product that was seriously _designed_ instead of just checking
off features.

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crux
Edward Tufte's impression of Windows Phone 7: 'Ooh, look at me! I'm Windows
Phone 7! I think I'm so smart! Look at all my buttons! I'm Windows Phone 7!
Typography! A bloo bloo bloo!'

I'll take the karma hit; I couldn't resist.

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spot
If that's the lock screen, it leaks a lot of real information. Yikes.

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recoiledsnake
That's the home screen. The lock screen looks like this
[http://www.tech4mommies.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/Lock-...](http://www.tech4mommies.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/Lock-Screen-1.jpg)

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spot
same problem.

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Slimy
February 17, 2010? So he hasn't used the RTM build? He probably one saw
screenshots and blurry videos. Next!

