
Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation - brudgers
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50322553
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lordleft
In the context of the (european) New World, this is positively ancient. It's
actually a bit disorienting (I'm betraying a bit of an US-centric perspective
here, apologies) to think of Havana thriving for HUNDREDS of years before many
American metropolises. Very cool.

~~~
eesmith
I've lived a lot of my life in ex-Spanish territories which are now part of
the US.

This includes visiting St. Augustine, FL as a kid (founded 1565), and living
in Santa Fe[1], NM (founded 1610), which is an hour or so drive south of Taos
Pueblo where you there are multi-story buildings around 600 years old.

I think these should be part of a US-centric perspective of US history, but I
recognize that most people -- including myself -- learn an English/British
flavored perspective of that history.

I also know what you mean. I grew up in Miami, and as a kid there were still
people alive born before the city was founded.

[1] Full name: La Villa Real de la Santa Fe de San Francisco de Asís

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xrd
At one point Cuba exported 60% of the world's sugar. If not for a trade
embargo with the US (its most important trade partner) for the last 70 years,
Cuba would be a very different place. Who knows if many of these architectural
relics would be in better shape (arguably "progress" might have meant they
would have been demolished for newer buildings). They have an amazing literacy
rate (99.7%, one of the highest in the world) and incredible doctors, but yet
have terrible poverty and a repressive state. I always wonder whether this
will be the year that the country opens up and connects with the rest of the
world.

~~~
jariel
There is no 'blockade' of Cuba, they are free to trade with the other 186 or
so nations on planet earth, and can buy/sell most American goods via other
destinations. They are a member of the WTO (!!) Since commodity markets are
fungible there isn't a huge reason for sugar to be seriously devalued.

It's hard to 'blame America' for the totalitarian rule of Castro Inc. in Cuba,
this subject makes me wonder deeply about the nature of perspective of
populist leftists, anti-Americans etc.. Cuba is always an interesting litmus
test for those who are willing to completely look the other way so long as the
'red flag' is on the pole.

The revolution made a few leaps and then failed miserably, as so many do,
which is a real shame, because it's such a wonderful country otherwise. It'd
be amazing to see what that country would be under some kind of normal
leadership - I suggest it would be the richest in Latin America.

~~~
selestify
That is simply not true — see the 180 day rule that prevents any ship docking
in Cuba from entering US ports for the next 180 days. It’s not like the rest
of the world is just free to trade with Cuba without repercussions from the
US, and given the much smaller Cuban market, it’s not surprising that many
operators would rather avoid the trouble of unloading cargo there. The
revolution has done pretty remarkably well given the adverse circumstances it
was placed under.

~~~
dsign
It is true. Just try to take about anything into the country which is not for
personal use, and you will see it confiscated by Cuba's customs. Only a
handful of entities strongly affiliated with the Cuban government can import
goods for commerce in Cuba. You can check it here:
[https://www.nordeatrade.com/en/explore-new-
market/cuba/custo...](https://www.nordeatrade.com/en/explore-new-
market/cuba/customs) under the "Import Procedures" paragraph.

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billfruit
Panama City is 500 years old too this year.

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AwesomeFaic
Just spent a long weekend in Havana with my fiance, it's a fantastic place to
visit. As an American, super surreal visit.
[https://wanderandponder.com/2019/11/04/a-weekend-in-
cuba/](https://wanderandponder.com/2019/11/04/a-weekend-in-cuba/)

If you're into art, keep an eye on the contemporary Cuban art scene. Got to
see some really impressive pieces during our visit.

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blondin
umm, can someone explain how significant this is?

~~~
jariel
These are the oldest 'Western' cities in the colonial New World. They were
established just after 'contact', just as Byzantine (i.e. E. Roman Empire)
finally fell to the Ottomans, at the dawn of the Reformation, before the
Enlightenment ... just at the very start of the 'modern period' in Europe. To
give some context, Napoleon was 100 years closer to 'our time' than he was to
'that time'. The last English king to die in battle was about this time. The
French were not yet a real power. Europe's borders as we know them were just
taking shape, and the 'Americas' were entirely Aboriginal.

So they are very intesting cities born at a major turning point in
civilisation.

~~~
jcranmer
> just as Byzantine (i.e. E. Roman Empire) finally fell to the Ottomans

The Fall of Constantinople was in 1453, the Empire of Trebizond fell in 1461,
and the Principality of Theodoro in 1475, which marked the final end of any
state claiming to have been the "true" successor to the Byzantine Empire after
its defeat in 1204 in the Fourth Crusade. All of these dates markedly predates
Columbus's contact voyage in 1492.

~~~
tyri_kai_psomi
Byzantium still existed, it was just under Ottoman domination, and relatively
speaking of course, the Ottomans were relatively more tolerant than Christians
than other Muslim empires, and the heritage of Byzantium was transferred to
Russia, the connections with the West were still strong. This may just come
down to it depending on which history books you read.

Fun fact: The Patriarchate of Constantinople still exists today!

~~~
arethuza
I always found the idea of Moscow as the "Third Rome" quite fascinating:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome)

[Also the derivation of Tsar from Caesar]

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dm3730
500 years of foundation? I guess the history of the Mesoamericans who lived
there prior to their genocide by the Europeans isn't available?

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iguy
They didn't found a city called Havana, that's all.

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dm3730
You clearly missed my point. But that's okay since I presume your intentions
and support of colonialization is clear.

~~~
iguy
This may surprise you, but I wasn't around in the 16th century to either
support or oppose anyone's actions, let alone their intentions.

~~~
dm3730
You are here now supporting past actions and intentions.

