
Turkey blocks use of Twitter after prime minister attacks social media site - JumpCrisscross
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/21/turkey-blocks-twitter-prime-minister
======
SixSigma
"Everyone will see how powerful the Republic of Turkey is."

At least he is right about that. His, and by extension Turkey's, impotence
will soon be there for all to see. It reminds me of "Consequences will never
be the same"

"We won't allow the people to be devoured by YouTube, Facebook or others"

The people are willingly placing their heads in the mouth of these lions. It
is revealing how much world leaders are freaked by the concept of really free
communications. Observers of political life already know that while there may
be an illusion of press freedom, the collusion between media barons and the
powerful (entered into willingly or through the pressure "no interview / early
access for you") has a chilling effect.

~~~
sentenza
Turkey is kind of special, though. Atatürk managed to glue together the
remainder of the Ottoman Empire by streamlining culture and society (by
force). You have the culturally suppresed Kurds who were even prohibited from
speaking their language for decades, then you have the backlash against the
decades-long marginalization of religion (Islam), you have the Alevite
religious minority, and then the ardent defenders of Atatürks vision.

It is hard to see how somebody could hope to "keep the lid" on all that. There
will be more unrest in Turkey.

~~~
atmosx
The problem is not diversification IMHO. It's - as always - lack of education
and democracy. With a little bit of respect and tolerance for each other these
fractions of a society could live peacefully together.

~~~
ihsw
Exactly. Few nations lack these problems, but many are able to achieve
stability and wealth through providing comprehensive and unbiased education,
and supporting a democratic political process.

Erdogan has not been shy about his feeling that democracy is a means to an
end, that it is a tool to be used for his convenience, and that such tools can
be cast disposed of when their usefulness expires. This will be his downfall.

------
JanneVee
If 140 characters is a threat to your government, then most probably the
problem is your governing.

~~~
venomsnake
Turkey is a neighboring country. Erdogan has been busy dismantling what Kemal
Ataturk built (don't go into how he built it), for more than a decade under
the banner of religious freedom. But he is getting more and more resistance
because seems a lot of young Turks read religious freedom as "right to be as
secular as one wishes" and his government has a lot of corruption going on and
the West really managed to sell the whole freedom of speech ideal across the
world.

So he, Putin, and all known and unknown cronies will wrestle with a lot of
insubordination for years to come. The millennial all around the world see
government differently. Unlike the elites. So they just cannot grasp why stuff
like Gezi happens.

~~~
Kiro
> But he is getting more and more resistance because seems a lot of young
> Turks read religious freedom as "right to be as secular as one wishes"

What's the definition of religious freedom?

~~~
bayesianhorse
Actually the concepts of "religious freedom" and "islam" don't have the same
presumptions.

Islam contains aspects that aren't "religion" from the western point of view.
Many muslims will say Shariah law is an essential part of the religion, handed
down by god. Shariah does not guarantee religious freedom, nor is it
compatible with most constitutions.

So without restricting religious freedom to a smaller "common core" of
religious practice, or a bigger part of the muslim world lowering the
importance of shariah, there is always a conflict between islam and democracy.

------
mxfh
The stream of few turkish friends I follow currently consist of little else
than DNS change instructions.

[https://twitter.com/irisherself/status/446946548807524352](https://twitter.com/irisherself/status/446946548807524352)

Yet "some people" still get it wrong:
[https://twitter.com/odtuogrencileri/status/44681745427084902...](https://twitter.com/odtuogrencileri/status/446817454270849025/photo/1)

~~~
seqizz
This is joking about minister's son Bilal, who can't understand most of the
things which his father wants on the recordings.

------
mrtksn
Here is english-dubed version of the leaked phone conversation between the PM
Erdogan and his son, allegedly when trying to get rid of evidence:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htUIHJuDNzk&feature=youtu.be](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htUIHJuDNzk&feature=youtu.be)

------
mrtksn
I would like to post a comment from previous discussion, explaining what is
this all about:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7439602](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7439602)

\------------

Background info:

This is hypothesized to be a reaction to a series of audio recordings that
were anonymously released over time. These were ridiculously damning, clearly
someone is tapping phones without anyone else's knowledge.

Previously:

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/27/turkish-pm-
corr...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/27/turkish-pm-corruption-
youtube-recep-tayyip-erdogan) [http://www.al-
monitor.com/pulse/iw/contents/articles/origina...](http://www.al-
monitor.com/pulse/iw/contents/articles/originals/2014/02/erdogan-corruption-
audio-bilal-graft-probe-police-money.html)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_corruption_scandal_in_Turk...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_corruption_scandal_in_Turkey)

Some highlights from the "alleged" recordings so far:

\- PM calling to get news about an opposing party removed from a TV channel
multiple times

\- Modifying political poll results to manipulate public opinion

\- Getting people of opposing opinions fired

\- Buying a large paper shredder to destroy documents

\- PM calling son to ask how much money there is at home, son replies saying
about 1 trillion, then switches to 3-5 kurush (cents in turkish).

\- PM calling son to say "they're raiding the houses, zero out the money". Son
says there's only 30 million euros left.

\- Call to order the judges to be fixed, and says that a specific person is to
be imprisoned.

\- Trying to manipulate who goes on the supreme court.

\- Says "ignore the prosecutor who's running the corruption investigations".
Orders documents ripped up.

(source:
[http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/25981622.asp](http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/25981622.asp))

The official reason for the shutdown is that there were sexual photos of some
poor citizen released on twitter against her will, and she complained but
twitter refused to take them down. So they decided to shut down the entire
website. Yeah, right. Of course this is ominous that at the end of this month,
the local elections will take place. No coincidence. It's surreal how all this
is going down. It's like watching a conspiracy theory movie. Blatant shills
everywhere, media manipulation abounds, blatant lies heard on TV from the
horse's mouth. We were all skeptical already, it's inevitable when you live in
a third world country for years, but wow. When you hear the insiders actually
talking to each other, it's a whole new level. more news on this specific
event: [http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-blocks-twitter-
after...](http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-blocks-twitter-after-
erdogan-vowed-eradication.aspx?pageID=238&nID=63884&NewsCatID=338)
[http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/turkey-
erdogan-...](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/turkey-erdogan-
threatens-ban-twitter-2014320165956732467.html)

Related old post here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7189577](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7189577)

edit: Erdogan stated a few days ago that he didn't care what the world
thought, and he would eradicate twitter. He said "how dare they listen to our
encrypted phone conversations". It's expected that on the 25th, something huge
is going to be released that might sway the elections bigtime. Whoever is
posting these are doing it slowly and deliberately, a few days at a time,
building up anticipation. So people think that twitter getting shut down is
probably related to this.

edit2: All recordings were put on youtube by someone:
[https://www.youtube.com/user/haramzadeler333](https://www.youtube.com/user/haramzadeler333)

a reply:

\------

I just want to add few things: Most of the leaking tapes are from the
corruption investigation that was effectively blocked by the PM. His son was
to be detained too but he shuffled or dismissed any prosecutor or police force
that would dare to. Later he restructured the Supreme Board of Judges and
Prosecutors and did everything to stop the investigation and arrests. The son
of the Interior minister was arrested too but the Interior minister himself
remained in power till he helped out Erdogan to restructure judiciary and law
enforcement forces. The legal files were leaked too. Turns out the Interior
Minister knew about the ongoing investigation,so he created a team in the
police to surveillance the other policemen who were after his son. It's
surreal.

~~~
mercurial
Clearly, Turkey is not really a democracy anymore. As an outside observer, the
Turkish "deep state" was a major problem, but having a nationalist network
replaced by a conservative mafia is even worse. But if I understand correctly,
this only comes out as a result of a power struggle between Erdogan and his
former ally, the preacher Fethullah Gülen. If that's really the case, then it
shows Turkish institutions have been infiltrated by two distinct Islamist
networks, as well as the remains of the deep state network.

Isn't there any secular, non-nationalist political movement in Turkey?

~~~
atmosx
I wonder which country _is a democracy anymore_. Clearly not the UK or the US,
absolutely not Greece (laughable), Italy (3 PM's in row without elections
whatsoever! Napolitano, Italy's President should commit suicide out of
embarrassment IMHO), Spain (I think they are in a better shape?!)... Who has a
democracy these days?

~~~
voicereasonish
You talk about democracy as if it's a fantastic system. It's not. One vote per
person? So a guy who has a political degree has the same voice as a guy who
votes depending on which candidate has the nicest eyes?

~~~
booruguru
> So a guy who has a political degree has the same voice as a guy who votes
> depending on which candidate has the nicest eyes?

What is the alternative? Yes we are NOT all equal. Some of us are more
rational and intelligent than others. But how would you go about determining
one's intellectual and moral worthiness? (Education? IQ?) And who gets to
decide the criteria for superiority?

If you were as smart as you think you are...you would have considered these
issues before making such a shockingly elitist statement.

~~~
voicereasonish
I don't consider myself especially smart. But giving everyone an equal say in
the running of a country is pure madness. The better alternative is a friendly
dictator, or a good monarchy.

My original comment was to point out that "Democracy" is not some perfect
utopia that every country should strive for.

~~~
booruguru
Democracy is not perfect, but it's the best option available.

Also, I can't tell if you're being facetious or if you truly believe we would
be better of with dictatorships...because there are plenty of real-world
examples to choose from and they're quite horrible.

------
yawz
Of one the last ripples caused by a collapsing tyrant. A shameful, a very
shameful act but unfortunately just another link on a long chain of despotic
measures.

There are regional elections in Turkey at the end of March. The governing
party is expected to receive a major blow. Latest scandals have certainly not
helped their cause.

I wish changing government were as easy as changing DNS settings.

------
buzaga41
I wonder if the US will apply it's moral here this time? Seriously, if
Venezuela or some other country like that did something like this the US gov
would be up against the 'regime' in no time. Let's see.

~~~
cLeEOGPw
I doubt they will confront Turkey now. Because there's enough confrontation
with Russia already.

~~~
toyg
I doubt they will confront Turkey _ever_. It's the door to the Middle East,
and there will always be "enough confrontation already" in the ME, one way or
the other.

------
ctekin
Earlier discussion ;
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7439128](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7439128)

------
higherpurpose
They should use Twister. Try to shut that down.

[http://twister.net.co/](http://twister.net.co/)

------
n0rm
Rumor has it that a sex tape of this wanker will be spread on the 26th.

Coming to a screen near you.

~~~
mrtksn
Actually many people expect that it's probably not a sex tape but evidence
about a political assassination and the PM himself is involved.

Since a while the whistleblowers are talking about it, giving teasers and so
on.

------
xyproto
Streisand effect in 3..2..1..

------
jules
Turkey blocks use of Twitter after prime minister attacks social media site.
Why do journalists always use these kinds of titles? They seem to be so
terribly afraid of pronouns that they make titles that make no sense. Which
social media site was the prime minister attacking, and why is twitter blocked
because of it?

------
iuguy
Turks looking to access an unrestricted Internet should install Tor[1], or
where not feasible use something like lahana[2].

[1] - [http://torproject.org/](http://torproject.org/)

[2] - [http://lahana.dreamcats.org/](http://lahana.dreamcats.org/)

------
wil421
I wish we could hold some of our politicians accountable in this fashion. A
phone conversations wiki leaks type website would be a killer.

Does anyone know of websites that dedicate themselves to find corruption in US
politicians?

------
tehwalrus
This is bizarre behaviour, can they not see how badly this will end for them?

------
batuhanicoz
Turkish President (@cbabdullahgul) just told his opinions about the ban to
public. On Twitter. Oh, I love this country sometimes.

------
dexter2016
It is like he want a revolution

------
mendicantB
I'm not sure how anyone can take this douche seriously after the leaks.

~~~
mercurial
In other news, Nicolas Sarkozy, the former French president, was recorded
talking with his lawyer on burner phones bought under a fake name, discussing
about a mole they have who keeps them illegally informed of the investigations
currently going on (such as having had Gaddafi fund his political campaign).
The tape was leaked to the press. In spite of this, he is still the favourite
would-be candidate for the presidential elections of the French conservative
party.

See also Berlusconi. The wonderful thing about the combination of democracy
and transparency is that the majority of the population gets exactly the
leaders they deserve.

~~~
coldtea
More worrying is not the BS they (Sarkozy and Berlusconi) have done, but who
is the arbiter of "truth" who makes the recordings and the leaks.

Perhaps some foreign power or some large interest group, that seeks to replace
them with some equally scum candidates, but who will be more willing to cater
to them, and who will not have leaks on him...

Leaks are not providing transparency, but the illusion of it. You only have
transparency if you either have leaks for everybody and all their ill actions
(which you don't have a way to check if is the case) or if you also know who
makes the leaks and why.

~~~
mercurial
You have a point here. The recordings in France were made by the police as
part of the investigation, as for the leaks, it's not clear. Other tapes, this
time recorded by a former advisor, were leaked to right-wing newspapers and
websites, possibly as a symptom of internal struggle. The police recordings
being leaked may be due to the work of the Mediapart website, leaked by the
current government before the upcoming elections, leaked by left-wing
sympathizers in the police/justice, leaked by right-wing opponents of
Sarkozy... your choice. I doubt any foreign state plays a role there.

The situation in Turkey is much more worrying though. That's different
competing conspiracies.

------
pinkskip
prick.

