
A woman who doesn't feel pain - ducaale
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-47719718
======
chrisdone
I read in New Scientist that they've discovered a way in mice to turn off the
connection between pain receptors and the emotional response to pain in the
brain. So the mouse feels the pain in the sense of recognising it, but doesn't
have a negative feeling associated with it. That's like a half-way point; you
wouldn't injure yourself accidentally (as the woman), but you also wouldn't
suffer if enduring chronic pain.

[https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132143-900-silencin...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132143-900-silencing-
brain-cells-in-mice-can-make-them-no-longer-care-about-pain/)

~~~
maxxxxx
Experienced meditators are supposed to achieve this. I have read that they can
have surgery without anesthetics (Gandhi supposedly did it too). They feel the
pain but they do not suffer from it.

~~~
brm
source please.

~~~
jdietrich
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S152659000...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1526590009006919)

[https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-01983-012](https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-01983-012)

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439591...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439591000223X)

[http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5540](http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5540)

[http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/46/15307](http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/46/15307)

~~~
gotocake
Naively it makes sense, pain is just a sensation, but suffering is more
complex. I doubt that we can truly shit off sensitivity to noxious stimuli,
but meditation (and maybe some generic factors) seem like a way to manage
reactions to that stimuli. Having said that, and skimming the links, I’d guess
there’s a limit. A lot of what we’d naively expect to be excruciating is more
upsetting and distressing than purely painful. Some things however, like
inflammation of the trigemanal nerve, is really a source of intractable pain.
I have my doubts that meditation would be of much use in that context, or
extreme osteogenic pain.

------
iforgotpassword
I'm baffled by the fact she only realized it when she was 65. I understand
that when you were born like that it might just be normal, and maybe you don't
put too much thought into it, but it's just... Didn't she ever wonder why
other people scream like crazy when they touch a hot pan, hit their head, and
she doesn't? Didn't other people realize in those 65 years that _she_ doesn't
have any reaction when it happens to her? Did she maybe just "learn" to say
ouch when she hits her toe against the door frame, because that's what others
do?

Also how did she not die as a child? When you never get the negative feedback
of touching something got, cutting yourself, breaking a rib falling off a
tree... This is just crazy to me, more than the fact that this condition
actually exists.

~~~
fma
I read the same story from NY Times, which had a more detailed write up. She
likely inherited the genes from her dad. "Likely" because they can't test her
dad's genes since he's deceased. Her dad didn't really feel pain either, so
growing up it was not that abnormal.

Her son has a similar mutation but daughter doesn't.

NY Times Article: [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/health/woman-pain-
anxiety...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/health/woman-pain-anxiety.html)

~~~
mirimir
Right. You're normal, and everyone else are just whingers.

Reminds me of Ferro, in Abercrombie's _First Law_ trilogy. She felt no pain.
But she was not at all happy. More like always angry.

~~~
gotocake
That was such an amazing series, and I found it had a lasting emotional
impact. I still feel vaguely hurt and angry when I think about it!

~~~
mirimir
Same here. I've read that, on one level, it's a satire on the Ring Trilogy.
It's almost pure tragedy (with issues resolved through destruction) but has
some very sweet comedy (with issues resolved through friendship and marriage).

And there are virtually no pure heroes or villains. I mean, he gets you
feeling sympathetic with an expert torturer. And with a bunch of more-or-less
psychotic marauders. Because he gets to to understand what's shaped them. What
they've been through. And as well, it's loaded with great fight sequences.

If you haven't read his other books in that world, I highly recommend it.
There's one that's largely about Logen.

------
inspector-g
For anyone curious about why pain is an incredible predictor of/protector from
danger, and why lack of pain experiences often leads to massive injury and
early death, please watch this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCF1_Fs00nM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCF1_Fs00nM)

The lecture is given by a respected pain research scientist, and it also
covers much of modern pain science (including why the biomedical model of pain
is outdated and how the biopsychosocial model of pain is more representative
of observations of human pain experiences).

------
fbnlsr
Not feeling pain can have some really disabiliting effect on one's life. A
rather famous player in the Counter-Strike community suffers from a rare
genetic disease that make him feel much less pain than normal. He started to
scratch his nose out of habit when he was a kid, and eventually it came off
over the course of years of scratching. His name is lo0p__ :
[https://www.twitch.tv/lo0p__](https://www.twitch.tv/lo0p__)

Edit: You can see him explain the effects of not feeling pain in this video -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XalQkahQbpE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XalQkahQbpE)

~~~
elbrian
Here's an AMA he did, if anyone is interested in reading more about him
specifically:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4xmbu9/iama_16_year_o...](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4xmbu9/iama_16_year_old_who_doesnt_feel_pain_ama/)

------
bumbledraven
This seems to be the paper referred to in the article:

Srivastava & Cox, "Microdeletion in a FAAH pseudogene identified in a patient
with high anandamide concentrations and pain insensitivity" (22 Feb 2019)
[https://bjanaesthesia.org/article/S0007-0912(19)30138-2/full...](https://bjanaesthesia.org/article/S0007-0912\(19\)30138-2/fulltext)

------
HillaryBriss
Pain free I believe, but I call bullshit on this part of the story: _" When he
found I hadn't had any, he checked my medical history and found I had never
asked for painkillers."_

Ha!! Like you can just "check someone's medical history." Yeah right! As if
that history were in a single, easily queried database or something! Everyone
knows real human medical histories are spread out over thousands of dog-eared
pages hanging out of faded, worn-out folders located in dozens of doctors
offices and hospitals across this great country of ours! What planet does that
woman live on?!!

~~~
acct1771
The East or West coast of US?

------
ryanmarsh
You don't understand how important a feedback signal pain is until it's gone.

I dated a girl who had a brain tumor removed as a child. As a result of this
she had an incredibly high tolerance for pain. I don't mean stub-your-toe
tolerance. I mean beat-me-with-a-belt-so-I-can-feel-something tolerance.
Obviously it made for some interesting fun. Eventually I had to stop dating
her out of fear I was going to permanently injure her in her search for pain
sensations. She literally scared me.

~~~
domnonymous
I'm really curious... (I'm a sadist, but only with consent and permanent
injury is a hard nope) did you try electricity? I've played with several folks
with high pain tolerance, and electroplay really seems to "cut through"
everybody's defenses. But it's not obvious how that would go, if the
neurological signals are getting blocked...

~~~
lohszvu
Why do you get off on hurting people?

~~~
orthecreedence
I'm guessing the same reason people get off on, say, looking at big asses (or
feet). Why does anybody get off on anything besides regular, biological,
strictly-procreational sex?

------
kowdermeister
I knew a girl who couldn't get drunk (bottle of vodka and no effect), she had
to fake it sometimes not to look alcoholic. She said she wasn't the only one
in the family.

~~~
sigi45
Calling bullshit.

Probably a alcoholic or something.

~~~
skrebbel
A quick Google search yields people like these: [https://www.quora.com/Is-
there-anyone-that-cannot-get-drunk](https://www.quora.com/Is-there-anyone-
that-cannot-get-drunk)

~~~
scarcely
A quick Google search of "quora" can also yield numerous sources stating it is
full of bullshit. Of course, a quick Google search of any of those further
sources will probably lead to the same thing...

------
ChrisSD
What's also interesting is the other consequences of her condition. She
doesn't get fear or adrenaline response and might be able to heal faster than
most people.

~~~
mirimir
Right, I noticed that too. Also the "happy gene" thing.

I recall from Hofstadter the idea that feedback loops in consciousness rely on
some of the same components that mediate the senses. So anger and fear are
rather like mental pain.

------
crimsonalucard
Even more interesting there is also a a women who exists who literally cannot
feel any fear.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M._(patient)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M._\(patient\))

There is a radiolab podcast where they actually interview her.

------
jfk13
For some insight into the value of pain, and the hazards of being without it,
_Pain: the Gift Nobody Wants_ (also published as _The Gift of Pain_ ) by Paul
Brand & Philip Yancey is a fascinating read.

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pain-Nobody-Wants-Paul-
Brand/dp/006...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pain-Nobody-Wants-Paul-
Brand/dp/0060170204)

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gift-Pain-Hurt-What-
About/dp/031022...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gift-Pain-Hurt-What-
About/dp/0310221447)

~~~
cpncrunch
For people suffering from chronic pain, the benefits of turning off pain
completely would far outweigh the risks.

------
olalonde
Look up Gabby Gingras if you're not convinced how dangerous that condition is.
She became legally blind from scratching her own eyes as a child (among other
things).

~~~
watoc
There was a documentary called a life without pain a few years ago about her
and a boy from Norway with the same condition. Kids with this condition
usually die at a very young age due to injuries.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Life_Without_Pain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Life_Without_Pain)

------
edoo
This confuses me a little. I remember when I was a kid watching a documentary
about this condition. It is generally a severe danger to the person as they do
not naturally learn the penalties for a broken bone or severe burn. Pain is a
very important signal. The media articles on this at the moment are making it
sound never heard of before and possibly something we want.

------
fb03
Having no pain, okay.

But having no anxiety? wow, that sounds like true heaven to anxious me.

~~~
ZeroFries
You would think the same about pain if you were in chronic, debilitating pain.

~~~
fb03
I have chronic pain. I hate that it makes my anxiety even worse and it's
anxiety what really burdens me the most (feeling nonfunctional, feeling
anxious, having panic attacks or triggers)

------
xutopia
I'm surprised she didn't lose more limbs!

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baud147258
I remember reading about this condition in a natural science schoolbook, along
with an explanation that it's dangerous for the affected person, since they
are lacking the signals warning them their body has a problem.

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popotamonga
Can some one like this pickup a sport like running and run to death?

~~~
maaaats
Wondering as well. Could they be incredible in some cardio sport because they
could push themselves. Or would they push too hard? Or is the type of pain
different so they feel discomfort same as we do?

What about holding your breath? The pain is from co2 in your lungs, not a lack
of o2, so it is mostly your brain/will stopping you from holding it longer.

------
bashwizard
We have a small village in Sweden that is known for roughly 40 cases of the
same thing. They're basically made fun of because a lot of the village
population are related so it could be a case of inbreeding among relatives.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pa...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain)

------
ivanhoe
Sounds horrible actually, just imagine living with all those little risks of
hurting yourself everyday. I remember I was amazed when ophthalmologist warned
me not to touch my eyes 30 mins after the eye examination because anesthetics
numb the sensation enough that you can accidentally cause the cornea abrasion
without noticing it. This is like it, but applied to your whole body for whole
life.

------
drexlspivey
I can't find the condition name in the article but I remember a House MD
episode (3x14) that the patient had this condition and it was called CIPA
(Congenital insensitivity to pain with anhidrosis)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pa...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain_with_anhidrosis)

------
robocat
House MD had an episode about this condition in 2007:
[https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0917153/](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0917153/)

You would think a friend might mention it - I would think a close friend must
notice a complete lack of pain response.

------
genema
No pain during child birth. Can you imagine the look on those doctors' faces.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
They probably figured that she got a little too much painkiller. When
something unexpected happens the human mind usually tries to attribute it to
something that is already known.

~~~
Aromasin
According to the article, her medical records said never been given
painkillers (although it could well be she's never _asked_ for painkillers,
which I suppose is a different thing all together.)

In the UK at least, most women only use Entonox (a mixture of oxygen and
nitrous oxide) for pain relief, and painkillers are only administered during
lengthy pregnancy's. I wouldn't be surprised if the doctors/midwives were a
little baffled, but just figured she was a hard nut.

------
jccalhoun
"Jo Cameron only realises her skin is burning when she smells singed flesh.
She often burns her arms on the oven, but feels no pain to warn her."

Maybe stop cooking?

------
MagicPropmaker
She has to feel some pain, otherwise she would have severely damaged her
fingers, toes over the years like people with diabetic neuropathy or leprosy
do.

~~~
system2
Maybe she can sense or feel? This article didn't explain it in detail, what is
the tolerance of pain, is it just skin or muscle. How does it even affect the
sleep cycle since muscles don't feel fatigue? She could've broken many
Guinness records but she didn't.

------
hi41
I don’t think that this is a good thing to have. Leprosy patients lose their
fingers because of lack of pain.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
I know that's part of it, but there's got to be _something_ more going on with
leprosy patients. Random bruises and scratches do not normally fester until
things start falling off, even if you ignore them.

~~~
crooked-v
> even if you ignore them

But you _don 't_ ignore them. If you have a bruise on your shin, you may not
think much about it, but it's pretty unlikely that you'll bump your leg just
as hard again on the coffee table on the same spot.

------
zerop
Similar:

Indian chef dips his BARE HANDS in searing 200C cooking oil to fry street
food... and doesn't suffer any burns...

[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317037/Indian-
chef...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317037/Indian-chef-dips-
BARE-HANDS-searing-200C-cooking-oil-fry-street-food-doesn-t-suffer-burns.html)

~~~
GalacticDomin8r
This has to be complete BS or he doesn't have an organic hand. Protein WILL
NOT stand up to that heat.

