
The Nest Cam Outdoor is a $199 camera with an easy-to-install magnetic base - shawndumas
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/07/the-nest-cam-outdoor-is-a-199-camera-with-an-easy-to-install-magnetic-base/
======
veidr
I have the $200 old regular indoor Nest camera.

It's so horrible, in more ways than I would have imagined that a camera could
possibly suck, that it's completely redefined my understanding of awful.

It's caused me to rethink many other purchases way outside of the category,
from blenders to TVs to cars.

Absolutely don't ever buy a Nest product, unless your aim is to do
experimental anitmaterialism therapy.

~~~
wepple
curious to know why, I have one and really like it, but maybe I'm missing
something?

~~~
goldenkey
I gave my experience and even provided screenshots but it appears that the
above commenter downvoted me for having a conflicting opinion. Downvotes are
supposed to be used for offtopic or malignant comments. I hope we can get a
reply so I can see the shortcomings of dropcams -- because so far they've
worked very well for me, but little do I know, maybe there are some real big
issues that are just not in my regular routine use cases.

~~~
mcphage
> but it appears that the above commenter downvoted me for having a
> conflicting opinion

I may be mistaken, but I don't think you can downvote replies to your
comments.

~~~
goldenkey
Thanks, I didn't know that, I am mistaken then. I do wonder who downvoted me
for providing objective information even if it is in support of a product from
a company that has gone to shit internally. I agree that the CEO who recently
got dumped was a real piece of work, and that the culture in the company
became toxic. But Dropcam is still decent, can't really screw something up too
badly that worked well to begin with. It's still something that I find worth
it because its one less thing to worry about. I love my cats and it helps me
watch them when I am on vacation or away.

------
Overtonwindow
A broader question I've had as I've been looking into these is: are there any
low-cost alternative is that do NOT involve the cloud? I really don't want to
send video from inside and outside my home across the Internet. I don't mind
that I can't check it remotely. I'm more interested in giving my wife the
ability to see what's outside without spending an arm and a leg or letting it
go out onto the Internet.

~~~
mseebach
Pretty much any other IP camera? D-Link has a range.

~~~
pavel_lishin
And that range dips down into the valley of crap.

The smartphone software that came with the camera will frequently lock up, so
it's nearly impossible to tell whether our baby is actually sleeping quietly
or the image has just frozen. Ditto for the browser-based cloud garbage. I've
resorted to just accessing the feed directly (via
[http://192.168.1.xx/video.cgi](http://192.168.1.xx/video.cgi), which is a
streaming jpeg) but that tends to lock up as well.

~~~
knz
That has been my experience with foscam IP cameras as well. The UI was
horrible, they routinely lost the static IP's I had assigned, and it reached
the territory of being something that caused more stress than it was worth.
The only appeal of Nest for me would be a potentially more reliable
experience.

------
antsar
Save yourself $50 and the monthly subscription fee. Recording software runs on
any networked machine, and there's no cloud dependency.

[https://www.ubnt.com/unifi-video/unifi-video-
camera-g3/](https://www.ubnt.com/unifi-video/unifi-video-camera-g3/)

(Not affiliated)

~~~
braum
they use resellers, is it available to order online somewhere?

~~~
ubercore
You can order most of their products through Amazon Prime.

~~~
braum
that is ideal! I guess their reseller's would not appreciate having that link
listed along side their names. I understand the reseller model but it seems an
ancient practice.

~~~
narrowrail
For products of some sophistication, OEMs still use value-added resellers
(VARs) because they want to address a larger market than those that can setup
Linux VMs, configure advanced firewall rules, etc. Many businesses also want
some sort of local support if something goes wrong.

------
awqrre
For $200, you would expect to be able to use your camera as you wish and be
able to record on the local network.

~~~
JshWright
What...? it's not like Nest would ever shut down a service, leaving its users
with nothing more than an expensive piece of plastic and silicon...

Anyone who buys this is nuts.

~~~
jasonellis
I really regret buying into the Nest Cam ecosystem. I have 3 now. Sure, it's
convenient to view things remotely, but I also run a NAS and I hate not having
the option to record locally or serve the camera streams myself instead of
relying on Nest's service or paying an outrageous price for recording.

The only reason I went with them in the first place is that they have a very
good picture and viewing range.

~~~
toomuchtodo
If you ever want to escape: [https://www.ubnt.com/unifi-video/unifi-
nvr/](https://www.ubnt.com/unifi-video/unifi-nvr/)

I've deployed them for my uncle at some of his rental properties in less
desirable parts of town for the security of his tenants.

------
macleanjr
I used to be a big fan of Nest. I've owned the thermostat, protect, Dropcam
Pro, and a Nest Cam. This product announcement leaves me very underwhelmed.

Since Nest took stewardship of the Dropcam products, there has been a
noticeable decline in quality. The Nest App is not as fully featured as the
Dropcam one was previously, and I seem to be having more and more connectivity
issues, despite having improved Internet connectivity.

There isn't anything compelling about this new product that will lead me to
"upgrade". One of my cameras is already pointed outdoors and it gets the job
done for monitoring my entrances.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
>Since Nest took stewardship of the Dropcam products, there has been a
noticeable decline in quality.

Oh, there's a reason for that. Fadell's leadership was so horrible that a lot
of the dropcam team ended up quitting after being acqui-hired.

------
Mister_Snuggles
Does it require a cloud service to operate? Will it work if I put it on a WiFi
network that can't access the internet? Does it present an MJPEG stream that I
can consume with other tools to do recording and monitoring locally?

My current cameras meet all this criteria. They've got a cloud service
available, but they work just fine even if they are unable to phone home.

------
radoslawc
Magnetic mount only? Access trough cloud service? $200? Seems like something
that should be marketed in TV Shop shows. Anyway I highly recommend
[https://zoneminder.com/](https://zoneminder.com/) even old laptop with built
in camera can be decent playground for it then buy some cheap Chinese IP
cameras with WiFi and make separate VLAN for them on router cut off from
internet access (some of those cameras are doing home ping back or even
sending images to Chinese servers). For $200 you can buy 2 to 4 of them, old
lappy and you're done.

~~~
elithrar
I don't think the Nest cameras (or others like them) are marketed at the same
people who want* to set up their own VLANs, install software onto old laptops,
and find a bespoke way to monitor the whole thing remotely.

* Want meaning 'not just technically capable, but who want to expend the time to set up & maintain this'

------
danielpal
One of the biggest issues with Nest is that they pretend to be a serious
company that takes cares of your home needs (security/monitoring, fire & gas
prevention and heating) but their products are toy like in that respect.

However I own 3 cameras and the fire alarm. The fire alarm, is worthless, I
eventually disconnected it given the large amount of false positives. Then
there are the cameras. I travel a lot so wanted a system that allowed me to
monitor my home remotely for security purposes. However, I soon found out they
are pretty much gimmick and any burglar will by-pass their security. If you
own a nest cam, be aware that if the cam is disconnected from your Wifi, it
will take 30 MINUTES FOR NEST TO NOTIFY YOU.

What did I learned? Burglars will power off the electricity in you house upon
entry - to prevent alarms etc from sounding. This will bring you Wifi and your
cameras down. Don't worry, 30 minutes later, or approximately 20 minutes after
burglars have left, you'll know.

You'll also only be able to set notifications via email and push, so if you
are sleeping you're out of luck. I was thinking of hacking a system with
Twilio to do an automated call upon the email being received, but after
finding out that it would take 30 minutes to even be notified I gave up.

Nest is cool, easy to setup and the cameras look nice, but they are toys.
Other products might be hard to setup, look uglier but work. I'd rather they
did both, but if I have to chose between ugly and works, and beautiful but
doesn't - i'll take the first.

~~~
ebcase
Fwiw, a few UPS devices (for battery backup) could help out in this scenario.

~~~
goldenkey
This is what most security companies do if they are any good. A battery backup
with cell connection. Can easily replicate it yourself using a mobile hotspot
on an old phone. Along with some usb battery packs. Pretty cheap and easy to
make a solution. (Under $50)

~~~
danielpal
The premise is that having this on the cloud is supposed to make it easier and
not require this complex setups. For instance, not needing a recording station
in the house that can be stolen or a Telco chipset with an alternative power
source.

If you do this on the cloud, you can call from a cloud provider and record
outside the house. Nest could easily call you from Twilio after 1 minute of
being disconnected and it will achieve the same.

~~~
goldenkey
Dropcam isnt a security cam. Its for checking on cats or kids. If you need
security UPS then you can rig up a battery pack and a backup mobile hotspot
with an old phone. I dont see how Nest could reproduce this anyways without
adding a simcard and gsm to their cams.

------
ascorbic
Would've been nice if they'd made a battery-powered one. I've a couple of
Netgear Arlo cameras and am a big fan. They're wireless and battery powered
and I was pretty dubious about the claimed battery life. However I've now had
them for four months and they're still showing as 3/4 full.
[https://www.arlo.com/](https://www.arlo.com/)

------
ceejayoz
> The magnetic base attachment potentially makes the Nest Cam Outdoor very
> easy to steal, but Nest claims the screwed-in, permanently attached power
> cord will prevent people from walking away with your $200 camera.

Nooooooope.

~~~
wepple
Yeah that seems the most dubious claim, that a power cord will protect the
device, really?

stating that the fact the thief will be on video is IMO a stronger deterrent
if there's one at all.

------
emsy
The question is: will they get people to actually buy Nest products anymore?

------
heywire
I don't know, after seeing the video [1] from Brad Fitzpatrick about his
experience with Nest products, I'm not sure I'd ever consider them.

Side note: if you watched the season premiere of Mr. Robot last night, there
was a scene that reminded me of Brad's video (I'll say no more for fear of
spoilers)

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY)

------
dvcc
A question more out of unfamiliarity more than anything, but is the market for
at-home security cameras really that large? Then to overlap that with the
market that can afford to pay the $10+/month to support it, I would guess you
run kind of low on customers?

I mean I guess not since the product is coming to market -- I just personally
don't know of anyone who uses one.

~~~
mseebach
I would not underestimate it. My immediate thought is "security moms" \--
suburban mothers whose overarching priority is security (they came out pretty
strongly for Bush in 2004, IIRC, which is when the name was coined). A similar
demographic makes up a substantial segment of the SUV market.

It's clearly marketed to a not-technically-skilled market (the magnet is
pretty brilliant - tool-free installation, if you can find a bit of metal)
which probably intersects the above market to a certain extend.

~~~
knz
> It's clearly marketed to a not-technically-skilled market

I'm not sure that is entirely true. I know of several people who work in IT
and use them. Any decent outdoor IP camera is going to cost at least $100 and
$10/month is worth the convenience for some people.

My own experience with cameras was using a foscam IP camera as a baby monitor
a few years ago. Setup was fine but the UI was horrible - very slow and filled
with lag.

> My immediate thought is "security moms" ... voted for Bush... substantial
> segment of the SUV market.

I think the market extends beyond a stereotype. None of the other people I
mentioned above voted for Bush or even have kids. Personally, I've been
looking for an outdoor camera to deter the random kids we have had try to
break into a hot tub in our yard and to deter someone breaking into a car
parked outside. I don't have time these days to mess around with a self hosted
solution so this is a potential option.

------
dogma1138
I have a feeling that these cameras are more likely to be stolen by bored
teenagers than actually help in preventing any crime.

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peterbonney
Can anyone explain the value of a magnetic mount when the power cable has to
be screwed down? It's not like you need to be able to quickly detach and move
the camera, and it could still look nice and sufficiently "Nest-y" with a
mechanical base. Am I missing something?

~~~
qyv
Well, it will be waaaaay easier to steal.

------
deedubaya
I've been enjoying my Homeboy for quite some time. Why would I go with a wired
version?

I have to recharge my Homeboy about once every two months.

[https://www.homeboy.com/](https://www.homeboy.com/)

~~~
lurkinggrue

      * No Wires.
    

Dammit.

------
univalent
Monthly subscription fee? No, thanks. I'll just run my own NVR for no cost.

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dmritard96
so a security camera that I can easy pull off the wall or clip the exposed
cable. Yeah, I dunno.

------
lurkinggrue
Still wifi only ... dammit.

