
Ask HN: Where are all the Rails jobs? - grover_hartmann
Hi Hacker News,<p>Rails programmer here -- I&#x27;ve been working with Rails since 2008 and I&#x27;ve been doing remote jobs for a living since then.<p>Lately I can&#x27;t find any work at all with Rails, what&#x27;s going on? What happened? Where did all the Rails jobs went?<p>I remember during 2008 doing multiples jobs at the same time, I used to get lots of offers, lots of interviews and gigs, etc, things have been really nice. Nowdays I barely get any interviews, and if I&#x27;m lucky to talk to someone, they ask for Node.js&#x2F;Ember experience as well, etc.<p>Did all the jobs went to Node.js and other languages? Or I&#x27;m just doing something wrong?<p>It&#x27;s really depressing accumulating all the knowledge and skills I got since then and not being able to use it or find more work. Even more depressing that I can&#x27;t find work and my income depends on this.<p>Any suggestions or recommendations welcome. I&#x27;m only looking for remote work.<p>Sigh, please help. :-(
======
jandrewrogers
Welcome to the business, for better or worse. Technology stacks have a pretty
short shelf-life with very few exceptions. I've been in the business 20+
years, most of it in Silicon Valley, and with few exceptions, like Java, most
development platforms do not last even five years. It is one of the reasons I
have experience with so much obscure stuff. I am constantly moving through
technology stacks.

You might not like it but you need to follow the tool chains. Specific to your
situation, I do not know anyone doing Ruby anymore for new systems. I am sure
some people are but it is clearly on the decline. Continuous evolution of the
tool chain is the curse of our industry. Right now, Javascript is probably
much more valuable than Ruby.

If you do not like trading up, some skills are more durable than others. Over
the long term, I've seen C/C++, Python, and Java retain their value better
than most languages over the years. I think Javascript is likely to add itself
to that list.

While you might find it depressing, a lot of what you have learned is
immediately applicable in these other environments. You just need to figure
out how they map, which is not too difficult. Going from Ruby to Python or
Javascript is not that big of a stretch. In most cases, it is a weekend
learning syntax and tool chain differences.

~~~
digitalzombie
Javascript is a big stretch... the language is nothing like Python or Ruby.

At least if you want to properly learn the language...

~~~
VieElm
Programming languages are simply a problem of learning syntax and the build
environment. Scan through a couple of books, maybe read a specification, write
some code, and you got it.

The hard stuff is problem solving, understanding algorithms and their
applicability, implementing and using data structures, how computers work, how
they represent types and resources, how networks work, network protocols,
databases, processes, threading, asynchronous coding etc. All of this
knowledge is mostly independent from programming language and platforms and
will apply from one language to another. Learning the syntax of a programming
language is trivial when compared to other programming topics.

If Ruby and Ruby on Rails dies tomorrow or Python and Django or whatever, and
you know of the things I just mentioned picking up the next thing should be
not be a difficult task. I don't really care what language someone already
knows when it comes to hiring. If you don't know JavaScript, but you know Ruby
or Java or C#, and you understand Computer Science, have demonstrated being
able to write working code and are not afraid to ask questions picking
JavaScript on the job is OK with me. We'll do code reviews, explains things,
get you going.

~~~
crdoconnor
>The hard stuff is problem solving, understanding algorithms and their
applicability, implementing and using data structures, how computers work, how
they represent types and resources, how networks work, network protocols,
databases, processes, threading, asynchronous coding etc.

Yeah, and knowing which libraries to use to do all that stuff and what quirks
they have.

That type of knowledge doesn't translate overnight between programming
ecosystems. It takes years.

~~~
VieElm
It takes years because you learn about these things as you go, and you solve
them as you go and by looking at the source code of things you're using.
People started using and jumping right into scala, and go and and node.js,
solving the problems as they ran into them because they had the skill to do
so.

~~~
crdoconnor
Yet it still takes years.

It's almost worse when the stack is new because there is so much of the wheel
that has to be reinvented again.

------
johne20
Here is anecdotal evidence from my own company. As someone who is hiring
developers, my belief is more and more front end development is moving to js
frameworks like Angular/React/Ember and that means the backend becomes "just"
an API. Rails is still a very pragmatic choice for an API, but as SOA becomes
more popular, micro-services are very easily written in any language, golang,
js (node), etc.

Also, as a developer you better get used to "accumulating all the knowledge
and skills" but be willing to stay up to date on the trending technologies. It
is the best way to stay marketable, and I think its a lot of fun too!

PM me what timezone you are in and some brief overview of your experience and
contact info.

~~~
stanley
Similar situation and opinions here. We've launched on Rails and have since
invested towards SOA. One reason was the increased complexity of the frontend
solution as experience became more important in the minds of the consumers.
Another was the benefit of languages which previously weren't an option
because the open source community wasn't as interested.

One thing I'm curious about is how the growth in SOA popularity impacts the
software ecosystem around deploying and managing micro-services. Interesting
space to watch, for sure.

~~~
aurora72
When it comes to SOA, I think Node is one of the greatest examples. Btw, has
anybody noticed that npm has become extremely common? It looks like npm is
used even on projects which are not based on Node.js.

~~~
albertoleal
Is this true? Are there examples? I'm guessing client-side apps built with
browserify/webpack?

------
rebelidealist
As a freelance developer, the big opportunities lies in sectors outside of
internet startups. (manufacturing services, clothing, import/export, finance,
construction, home services, agriculture). Those are the areas where a skilled
programmer can provide the greatest needed value.

Most of the time, you pick your own programming languages and the clients
trust your expertise. Plus, these jobs are often less demanding than working
for startups.

Personally, I still find Rails as one of most efficient and fastest tools for
developing web apps.

~~~
bentcorner
How do you usually meet up with these people? Asking this in another way, how
do non-tech sectors find programmers? How do they know the _need_ one?

~~~
josephjrobison
I'll speak as a marketing director that has just enough of an experience with
languages (JS/PHP) to keep up so I'm not a complete dunce, but I/we can't do
the work internally. I found my current outsourced team from a very strong
recommendation. Why are recommendations so powerful? Because we're lazy. It's
hard to weed through random proposals from strangers when someone you trust
has used someone successfully. But referrals only happen after you, excellent
developer, have a few jobs under your belt. And that's given that you have
past clients that aren't trying to hoard you. Would they recommend you to
their friends if you're slow on the projects you're working on with them?

As a marketing director at a small travel company if I want my Magento website
upgraded for speed, or if I want the current theme made responsive, where do I
go? Well the CEO wants ROI, so I'm under pressure to find the balance of cost
and quality output. So that means I try to outsource to developing countries
for <$50/hr. What if you're a $100+/hr American developer? Well as a marketing
director that reports to the CEO, I have to completely cover my ass in order
to recommend something at $100/hr. Doesn't matter that the going rate for the
best devs in tech cities might bill out at $500/hr - he's comparing to the
Indian company from 2 years ago, to his sales team, and to his accountant.

If you want to bill at market rate++ you sure as hell better propose something
in such a way that the projected savings or new revenue is much higher than
your cost. A CEO or Director of Marketing WILL pay what you're worth if the
ROI is 125%+. You probably can't guarantee anything since so much is dependent
on the company you're working with. But you have to paint the picture of
possibility. In the perfect world, how well can what your proposing help the
company? If you cover all the technical bases and point out the other areas of
the project that the sales team, the marketing team, the customer support team
has to contribute to, well that's a much easier sell.

ROI, ROI, ROI. That's what people who hire you think about, especially in non-
tech industries. All business people think of this first. Business people
understand long term investment and don't expect your $10k project to product
$20k the next month, but you have to help paint the picture. Will it pay off
in 6 months? 9 months? 2 years? Make it easy for them, and the sale is easier.

How do non-tech sectors know they need a programmer? There's almost always the
techiest person at any company that is designated to hire the programming help
or falls into it. You don't have to convince the secretary, the CEO, the
accountant, the COO and the marketing director. You only have to convince the
person handling the project that tends to be the most tech-savvy. A smart CEO
generally won't put a 60-year-old secretary on the hunt for a genius RoR
developer. He'll designate the best staff he has available.

What triggers that moment where they go from mentioning it in passing, to
calling a meeting and saying "we need to hire a developer in the next two
weeks"? Usually it's obvious things that don't need to be uncovered by
developers. The ecommerce payment system stops working; someone looks at the
site on their iPad and realizes it looks like crap; they stop getting
automated emails.

The power you hold is painting a beautiful picture of what's possible with
technology, and making they understand, then believe your vision. And a shit
ton of ROI projections.

~~~
jevyjevjevs
Great feedback. How does a consultant do effective marketing/sales towards
these organizations? It really seems like a consultant has to "strike when the
iron is hot" and be there when there is a problem that needs a solution.

------
lunaru
Why are you married to Rails? Sure, it's pleasant to work in, but being so
tied down to one stack is an antipattern considering how quickly technology
moves. Sell yourself as more of a talented full-stack developer who can apply
knowledge and experience to any stack. If you think about it, all the things
you've learned in Rails (the ORM, the MVC paradigm, front-end/API separation)
all exist in other stacks.

------
jared314
You successfully caught a wave. This is to be expected in any area of
programming.

RoR was propelled forward by businesses trying "new" technologies in the hopes
that it would pay off in faster / cheaper software development. While RoR is
not getting any less useful, the 5 year hype cycle of web dev has made SPAs
and Node.js the new technology stack to experiment with.

My suggestion is to either secure traditional employment in the RoR stack, or
move to the JS and Node.js stack. The former will give you a few extra years,
while the latter will allow you to continue with the remote work you have
grown accustom too.

------
peteforde
I tell my consulting clients that there are only three ways to make more
money: get more clients, charge more, sell your existing clients more stuff.

Most devs are under-charging.

Getting more clients is expensive in terms of time and support.

What almost everyone forgets is that it's far better to sell your existing
clients more stuff than to get a new client. When was the last time you called
everyone you've worked with and asked them how they are doing, how things went
after you were involved.

Get in the habit of asking them which of their friends might need some work
done. It should always be your last question.

------
mattt416
There are tons of remote rails jobs on
[https://www.wfh.io](https://www.wfh.io) \-- in actual fact, it seems like
most jobs we get ARE rails-related.

See our crude search for more info:
[https://www.wfh.io/search?query=rails&commit=Search](https://www.wfh.io/search?query=rails&commit=Search)

Thanks!

\--Matt @ WFH.io

------
jhgg
Everything's trending to Node.js (unfortunately). Ruby has been steadily
declining over the years. The web development industry seems to shift really
fast.

Server side web technologies/languages change/shift in popularity really fast.
As a freelancer, the best thing you can do is learn how to learn things fast.
Most of the patterns translate over between languages and technologies though.

Client side work is even more wild. I remember when everything was just jQuery
spaghetti. Then things moved to KO/Ember, then to Angular in around 2012, and
now everyone I know seems to be moving towards React. A lot people were
disenfranchised by the Angular 2.0 announcements over the past month.

~~~
skaag
Frameworks are making the whole JS thing much easier now, and since you have
JS in the browser, on every device on the planet, it makes a lot of sense to
use node.js on the backend as well for certain tasks.

In 2014~2015, I can't imagine creating a web based backend system (or even a
mobile app for that matter) in anything other than JS. The costs of hiring a
C++/Java/Ruby engineer are not so easy to justify. Beyond the monthly costs,
it's also the amount of time it takes to create a powerful, reactive web
interface.

------
gaius
I'm afraid this is normal and will happen to you several times in your career.
It is just the nature of this industry, which is more driven by fashion than
anyone is comfortable admitting.

------
hkarthik
I've been hiring Rails devs for the past year and here are my thoughts on the
subject.

If you're a classical Rails dev (no frontend experience with Ember, Angular,
or Backbone) then you should have significant experience on the backend in
terms of building APIs, provisioning and configuring cloud servers, and
scaling databases. Ideally, you've done this work at a successful shop that
has reached meaningful scale to where you've learned where the framework works
and where it falls down.

If you lack those skills, then you better hop on the tech treadmill and get in
shape on the client side. Learn a frontend JS framework or get some native
mobile dev experience so you can remain full stack. Just being able to just
sling Rails Views around with jQuery simply doesn't cut it any more.

------
rtfeldman
If you're in the San Francisco area, please apply for our Rails position!
We're a small team (the whole company is 9 people, but we've been doing
extremely well) making an awesome product, and we're actively looking for
great Rails developers. :)

[https://www.noredink.com/jobs](https://www.noredink.com/jobs)

------
danso
A lot of the most popular/profitable U.S. bootcamps have seemed to focus on
Rails, so I imagine that might impact the number of available novice Rails
devs. But I'd be surprised if the market has simply crashed...In the past two
months I've gotten unsolicited recruitments from well-funded/known
companies...and considering I'm not a particularly noted Rails dev (but happen
to have a lot of Rails-related commits in my Github), I see it as anecdotal
evidence that things aren't completely saturated (though maybe the impact is
more on remote jobs?)

------
JimboOmega
I find it nightmarishly hard to find rails programmers with experience - not
just the latest App Academy/etc. grads. Maybe it's your market? In SF, there's
still fierce competition

------
chrisduesing
I am trying to hire Rails programmers and everyone I talk to from other
founders to recruiters to lead devs all report the same problem: too many
Rails jobs way too few available programmers.

Unfortunately I am not looking for remote workers though. Good luck in your
search, I am sure you will find something!

~~~
tolas
Yep. In the Denver/Boulder area I'd say we have a severe lack of talented
Rails devs with good experience. Between here and SF I get contacted for 1-2
jobs per week and I don't promote myself at all. Usually it's for mid stage
startups looking to expand their team or hire a senior dev.

All jobs that I hear about are full time and not remote. For startups looking
to build their team, having quality people in the office provides much more
than what a remote worker can offer.

------
haidrali
As you said that you have been programming with Rails since 2008. Do you think
the development support provided by the rails is present in any other
framework ? certainly not. According to me this is the reason that's why Rails
still is on top in web development because of development support in term of
gems, community support and internal rails features like ( easy integration
with other systems, deployments ) As far as rails jobs is concern i would
recommend to you have a look at [https://angel.co/](https://angel.co/) for
remote work with startup hope it helps you

------
reality_czech
Rails is soooo over. The new cool platform is COBOL on Cogs
([http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM](http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM)),
an enterprise-ready, full-stack agile paradigm.

~~~
mrgordon
I thought it was Haskell on a Horse, no?

[http://haskell.on-a-horse.org/](http://haskell.on-a-horse.org/)

------
alainmeier
We are looking for Rails people, hit us up!

[https://blockscore.com/jobs](https://blockscore.com/jobs)

------
untog
If people want Node, why not learn Node? It's all the same stuff - you're
taking HTTP requests, interacting with some data from a database and sending
it back down to the response. You already know what's going on, the language
you use to do so isn't that important in the end.

I went from C# to Node with few regrets. I play around with Ruby and Python
from time to time. Mentally they're all very similar.

------
ericbrooke
There are a bunch of jobs in Vancouver, BC, Canada, there is also bunch in New
York.

The jobs are there. It is true that Front End is moving to JavaScript
frameworks and this is something worth learning. Our knowledge will always
become obsolete.

To help you practically here are some recruiters looking for Rails/Ruby
Developers:

craig.ferguson@rht.com skhanna@edgrp.com

And a couple jobs:

[https://angel.co/wealthbar/jobs/43161-senior-software-
engine...](https://angel.co/wealthbar/jobs/43161-senior-software-engineer)
Sage one are looking for rails dev in both Atlanta and Vancouver
[http://www.freerunningtech.com/careers](http://www.freerunningtech.com/careers)

San Fran [http://socialchorus.theresumator.com/apply/YJtfIc/Senior-
Eng...](http://socialchorus.theresumator.com/apply/YJtfIc/Senior-
Engineer.html?source=SC_Nov_14&__4zmi_=4zmi)

To note also that I feel that people are moving away from Remote, maybe its
time to gear up those people friendly skills?

------
redmattred
I think its probably a combination of companies moving away from rails and a
huge flood of newer developers into the market who have picked up RoR.

Here are some stats on the demand trends:
[http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=rails%2C+django%2C+node%2C...](http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=rails%2C+django%2C+node%2C+angularjs%2C+ember&l=)

~~~
lucaspiller
Given Node.js was released in 2009, I don't think those stats are very
accurate.

~~~
droidist2
True, it should probably be "node.js" and not "node" since that can have other
meanings.

[http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=rails%2C+django%2C+node.js...](http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=rails%2C+django%2C+node.js%2C+angularjs%2C+ember)

------
headz
Did you try toptal.com? I bet that you will have no issues in finding remote
Rails job once you are in.

You can find more information about joining toptal here:
[https://medium.com/@jsuchal/getting-into-
toptal-7eecd8d21cd3](https://medium.com/@jsuchal/getting-into-
toptal-7eecd8d21cd3)

~~~
vic_nyc
Toptal has very low rates for US-based developers.

------
dejv
I found that it depends on type of jobs available. There are tons of full-time
rails jobs everywhere, but smaller/remote projects tends to be more on the
edge of things and more often use new, hip, technology. So there is less
smaller rails projects and more smaller Node projects.

------
tfranco
Aprox. every 5 years, the software industry moves from fat client thin server
to thin server fat client (and vice-versa).

In 2008 Rails had a great hype on the fat server era. We're on the fat client
now, with JS taking the lead. Give it another 5 years and something else will
pop-up.

------
smk
Hey! Dabo Health is always looking for solid Ruby and Rails engineers. We use
a variety of other technologies in our stack (Node, Backbone, etc.) and have
the healthiest engineering/company culture I've ever experienced. We're doing
big things—right now—with the Mayo Clinic to improve how healthcare is
delivered in the US.
[https://www.dabohealth.com/#/Careers](https://www.dabohealth.com/#/Careers)
\-- sean@dabohealth.com if you want to know more.

------
gokulj
1) Transfer your overall web development skills to another language/platform
(Go, Clojure, Elixir or JS/Node). For anyone 'spoilt' by the beauty of Ruby,
Clojure and Elixir are good choices. Given that you are coding professionally
since 2008, you should be able to move into 'adept' category quickly in any of
the above.

2) Utilize your Ruby programming expertise and become a Mobile developer !!
Check out Rubymotion.com. Code in Ruby for Android and iOS.

~~~
woah
Is it actually practical to use ruby for mobile apps as a contractor? I
imagine most folks will want you to code native, no?

------
BorisMelnik
We are in the midst of a record breaking bubble where billion dollar
valuations are getting handed out left and right & everyone is dumping money
into app development.

Many people are seeking custom solutions, and don't care what language it is
developed in. I've had several web app projects this year that just needed to
work. If someone wanted to use PHP, Python, or Ruby it wouldn't matter as long
as it was operable and functioned correctly with the front end.

------
skwp
If you're in Chicago and want to join a fast growing company focused on
building a marketplace for musicians come check us out at
[http://product.reverb.com/work-at-reverb](http://product.reverb.com/work-at-
reverb). We are only 2 years old and about to cross into the top 10 music
equipment retailers in 2015. if you play music and love clean code this is
your dream job.

------
marketingadvice
I see Rails jobs all the time, that being said you have to diversify. Your
skill set is the same as investing, diversify and you will be sustainable.

In this case expand out from Rails into JavaScript, PHP, whatever else and you
will be set for future jobs.

Also check out www.weworkremotely.com, StackOverFlow Careers, Dice.com, HN
Whos Hiring Dec 2014 and Reddit.com/r/forhire

I saw a handful of Rails jobs on each.

------
mateo411
I suspect that Nodejs is taking market share away from Rails and Django. It
makes sense though. You can do your entire stack in a single language and the
event loop in Nodejs scales better, than a Django WSGI deployment. I'm not
sure how you can deploy a Rails application, but I suspect that it scales
similar to a Django WSGI deployment.

~~~
crdoconnor
Django scales just fine. It wasn't a problem for instagram, disqus, pinterest,
washington post or the onion.

The nodejs model for high concurrency high throughput async applications is
also pretty easy to write in python using the (much more mature) twisted
framework.

No weak typing or yucky nested callbacks either.

~~~
mcosta
> The nodejs model for high concurrency

I keep reading this and I don't understand. ¿How can a single thread process
be concurrent?

~~~
mateo411
Twisted, Nodejs and all of these other frameworks use the select system call
under the hood. This works well when the process is IO bound. Processes that
are responding the HTTP requests or reading or writing to databases tend to be
IO bound.

The select system call takes a set of file descriptors and returns which file
descriptors you can read, because new data is available to read. These
frameworks read from these file descriptors and dispatch the new data to a
callback method. The event loop only processes one thing at a time, because it
is single threaded. However, since reading from the file descriptor and
processing the callback is usually fast, this scales very well. Once again, it
only scales well for IO bound operations. This uses less memory than having a
single thread for each HTTP request, and it definitely uses less memory than
having a single process for each HTTP request.

~~~
mcosta
That doesn't explain why people call node.js concurrent.

With your answer I understand it is not concurrent but scales well anyway.

------
maknz
I haven't noticed a particular decline in Rails jobs locally here in New
Zealand. In fact, a company has been looking for a Rails dev for over a year
and can't find anyone. I work in PHP, and there's quite a lot of opportunity.
On the other hand, there's no Node jobs around, perhaps because of its
infancy.

------
jbosse
In Washington DC, there are a ton of Rails jobs. The government is moving to
Rails and so are the consultants who fleece it. [https://careers-
excella.icims.com/jobs/1108/ruby-developer/j...](https://careers-
excella.icims.com/jobs/1108/ruby-developer/job)

~~~
nilbus
flock? :)

------
NovaS1X
If you're willing to move to Vancouver and work for an animation company on a
2D/3D animation pipeline in rails I may have a contact for you!

We've been looking for good ruby devs for a long time. They're impossible to
find up here... Or no rails devs want to work on an animation pipeline.

~~~
dvogel
What is the name of the company? Guessing it is Bardel?

[http://bardel.ca/now-hiring/?bd-
job=Ruby+on+Rails+Developers...](http://bardel.ca/now-hiring/?bd-
job=Ruby+on+Rails+Developers+\(+Multiple+openings+\)&bd-job-
id=job_20140714203101_UMRNAQU99LXYHQ5O)

~~~
NovaS1X
Yes it's Bardel.

------
skaag
As your lazy race flocks towards reactive platforms, they choose frameworks
that do more of the work for them. One of the better frameworks out there that
does this is Meteor.js

Some human once said: "Everything that can be written in JavaScript, will be".
So hone your JavaScript skills, my son.

------
chad_strategic
This company is looking for Rails programmer with more than +10 years.

[http://www.strategic-options.com/insight/you-cant-have-
more-...](http://www.strategic-options.com/insight/you-cant-have-more-
than-10-years-of-experience-on-rails/)

------
stevenwilkin
The demand for contract Rails devs here in London is showing no signs of
lessening

~~~
hackerboos
What are the salaries like? Rails dev in the North West here.

~~~
stevenwilkin
Here's a relatively recent post from the LRUG mailing list with a bunch of
jobs in it:

[https://gist.github.com/stevenwilkin/76cdb6a1680c18192c2d](https://gist.github.com/stevenwilkin/76cdb6a1680c18192c2d)

Another from the same guy from a while back outlining the market in general:

[https://gist.github.com/stevenwilkin/ad97636243757b03c25b](https://gist.github.com/stevenwilkin/ad97636243757b03c25b)

Average rate has been around £400/day the last year or so though if you can
tell your ass from your elbow it's not difficult to charge more.

------
bdcravens
At RubyConf this week the job board seemed pretty full:

[https://twitter.com/jstetser/status/535212851934560259](https://twitter.com/jstetser/status/535212851934560259)

------
esaym
I can't really find work either. Looks like in general IT is just dying:
[http://tinyurl.com/phy8bw8](http://tinyurl.com/phy8bw8)

~~~
kranner
Or maybe Indeed is just able to scrape fewer job postings.

------
poserdude
I've heard of these guys, but that's all:
[http://www.mirrorplacement.com/](http://www.mirrorplacement.com/)

------
Trissa
Check [http://devsdirect.com/](http://devsdirect.com/), I heard they have some
projects that need RoR dev.

------
mrgordon
In San Francisco. There are about a million of them.

------
karthik_ak
I am in India and Rails is still hot here. I got for ruby as it makes me
complete my task faster than any language I know of.

------
bluedevilzn
Can you tell me where all the Node.js jobs are?

------
nodelessness
Which country are you in?

------
notastartup
I'm also wondering what happened to PHP jobs. Now everything has some sort of
MVC in the browser and I am reluctant to learn "front-end" because jQuery is
not enough apparently.

What happened to good old php backend with jQuery ajax calls. Now everything
has to be asyncy and we have to use javascript in the server side as well.

~~~
flurdy
I popped along to Silicon Milkroundabout
[https://www.siliconmilkroundabout.com](https://www.siliconmilkroundabout.com)
last weekend and was surprised by how many of the startups was based on a PHP
stack. And slightly depressed on their behalf, especially the ones using PHP
as a service...

~~~
notastartup
what makes you depressed about it?

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doseomthingelse
What a surprise! You picked a fad platform and the work is drying up. I've
been working several large platforms that sit on top of the JVM for years now,
I charge over $850 (£550) and I've never struggled to get work.

I mainly work with big ecommerce platforms; Oracle ATG, SAP Hybris, IBM
WebSphere amongst others. They are built using Java and have made me somewhat
wealthy. No fads.

~~~
doseomthingelse
Downvotes not required - I'm raising a valid point about fads. At the time
people were saying it was a fad. HN doesn't like these kind of opinions.

~~~
orbifold
Think of the down votes as the internet equivalent of being ignored or walked
away from at a social gathering. You know, when someone says something
arrogant or self centred and people turn away not quite knowing how to react.

