
Huawei expected to surpass Apple to become world’s No 2 phone maker - phate004
https://cntechpost.com/2019/12/20/huawei-smartphone-shipments-expected-to-reach-230-million-this-year/
======
Nokinside
According to Counterpoint Research Samsung is #1, Second is BBK Electronics
with 20% of the global smartphone market and is close to becoming the largest
manufacturer in the near future. Brand comparisons ignore BBK Electronics
because they sell multiple brands: One Plus, Oppo, Vivo and Realme.

Huawei is ahead of Apple because Huawei sells also HONOR branded smartphones.

    
    
              2019Q3
    
        Samsung  21%
       (*BBK     20%)
        Huawei   18%
        Apple    12%
        *Oppo     9%
        Xiaomi    8%
        *vivo     8%
        *Realme   3%
    
    

[https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-
share...](https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/)

Chinese brands have almost 50% global market share.

~~~
dep_b
Good info. Still I think that they're not making a lot of money and the
market's contracting too. Looks a bit like the situation with laptops about 10
years ago. They were dirt cheap and abundant.

\--- edit ---

[https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/12/19/apple-
earned-66-o...](https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/12/19/apple-earned-66-of-
the-entire-smartphone-markets-profits-in-2019)

66% to Apple, 17% to Samsung and the rest is fighting for the scraps. Which is
actually better than a while ago where Apple + Samsung > 100% because the rest
was losing money. Already quite a few brands have left the market.

~~~
eloff
When people ask me if they should buy Apple, I tell them it's overpriced for
the hardware you get. Your linked article proves my point quite nicely. But
then I follow that up with the value is in the software, if you like/are
familiar with Apple software, then buy Apple despite the cost.

I prefer Android and Linux, so I avoid Apple products for myself.

~~~
jandrese
Some of it is the price premium, but Apple also enjoys some efficiencies that
the Android clone makers don't. The more efficient iOS and smaller variation
in hardware over their more limited number of models means they can lower
costs while still putting out a top shelf product.

Tight control of the supply chain from top to bottom pays dividends over the
years.

~~~
taobility
Are you living in the dream California? There are lots of places out of
California they can't afford iPhone, or can't afford any phone more than $200,
and that's the reality world. So, let Apple make money from those rich
consumers, and let Chinese manufactures to make money from the other non-rich
consumers.

~~~
rstupek
I think the point is the Chinese manufacturers are making minuscule amounts
from non-rich consumers. Most of the money is being made by Apple

------
dr_dshiv
I use a Huawei - it takes surprisingly great photos and is generally well
made. Some annoying software pop-ups, though. I guess the worst part is that I
feel the need to loudly state that "I support the actions of the Chinese
government" on a regular basis, just to be safe.

~~~
euix
Huawei is just like Apple in my mind. An overly expensive premium phone with
bells and whistles I don't need. I had a ZTE for many years that is finally
bricking. After this I will probably get some $100 phone from one of those
millions of unknown Shenzhen OEMs, UMIDIGI or something.

~~~
ChrisSD
Huawei have long done good phones in the roughly £100 to £200 range. They tend
to be arguably the best hardware for their price. But as mentioned, the
software isn't perfect so you'll either need to put up with some annoyances or
be willing to hack around it.

~~~
jandrese
How is the Cyanogen/LineageOS coverage on Huawei?

It seems like if you want updates after a couple of years you'd best make sure
your phone isn't locked out from aftermarket ROMs.

~~~
yorwba
LineageOS supports 5 different Huawei devices:
[https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#huawei](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#huawei)

The last time I bought a phone, I consulted that list first and compared all
recent entries without fixating on a specific manufacturer. I ended up with a
Xiaomi Mi A1 that's been holding up well so far and already went through one
major Android update without problem.

------
bhouston
So the US sanctions on Huawei, that were intended to be crippling and were
fairly abrupt and harsh, had only a minor effect on Huawei. That should scare
the shit out of the US government. It means that China is much more self-
sufficient in technology than they figured.

The future of high technology at this time does seem to be in the hands of
China with the rest of the world contributing a bit. I suspect OSes and
architectural chip designs are one of the last things that China hasn't really
developed home grown in a successful way, but it is likely next. Thus taking
on directly Microsoft Windows, Android, ARM and Intel.

~~~
ses1984
I thought the sanctions on Huawei were about stopping the penetration of
Chinese devices into American networks and businesses for security reasons.

~~~
LatteLazy
No one has actually managed to find and actual security reasons not to accept
Huawei devices. There were some really poorly informed stories that listed
standard features (telnet support in routers) and tried to play them up as a
sinister commie plot but they were all pretty laughable. Most countries (for
instance here in the UK) assess infrastructure equipment, providers can only
buy from the approved and have for decades. Huawei always passed those tests
with flying colours.

But I guess "chinese spies eat telecoms babies" is a much more dramatic
headline...

~~~
matthewdgreen
It's important not to shift the goalposts. Western security establishments are
concerned that _once Huawei has overwhelming marketshare_ in systems like 5G
networks, they will have the ability to use these against target nations. They
(at least the credible agencies) are not claiming that current Huawei devices
are backdoored now.

Even if you believe the worst about China and Huawei, it wouldn't make the
slightest bit of strategic sense for them to implant backdoors into products
_now_ , when marketshare is still small and growing rapidly. You'd add the
backdoors once you had network dominance, like the US did.

------
codedokode
The good things in Chinese smartphones are their price and that they sometimes
have clean Android version without bloatware. Why do vendors like Samsung make
their ugly buggy shells and pre-install software I don't need? Do they think
they have better designers and developers that Google has? They are horribly
wrong. Stop pretending that you are making something unique and maybe I will
consider buying a non-chinese phone next time.

~~~
akmarinov
They do it do differentiate their phones. If all phones look the same and
basically have the same hardware - why bother buying Samsung, when a cheap
Oppo is the exact same phone?

Then Samsung won't make lots of money. This way you can have Samsung fanboys
that'll swear that Samsung stuff is better and will keep buying it.

~~~
aianus
> If all phones look the same and basically have the same hardware - why
> bother buying Samsung, when a cheap Oppo is the exact same phone?

Because Samsung is made outside of China and will not be tariffed.

~~~
akmarinov
Countries outside of the US exist.

------
rotten
LA Time article on Huawei that came out this week with lots of background on
the sanctions and issues with their technology:
[https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fg-huawei-
timeline/](https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fg-huawei-timeline/)

~~~
rotten
I work for Finite State, one of the companies mentioned in that article.

Here is more information on that report:
[https://finitestate.io/2019/06/26/report-finds-
cybersecurity...](https://finitestate.io/2019/06/26/report-finds-
cybersecurity..).

And here is a video of our CEO talking more about it:
[https://finitestate.io/2019/10/03/security-weekly-
podcast](https://finitestate.io/2019/10/03/security-weekly-podcast)

------
itg
Not surprising when phones coming from Chinese brands have on par/better specs
for a quarter of the price.

~~~
andreilys
Yes not surprising when Huawei and others have been accused of stealing trade
secrets. Why invest in R&D when you can just steal the IP from others?

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/huaweis-yearslong-rise-is-
litte...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/huaweis-yearslong-rise-is-littered-
with-accusations-of-theft-and-dubious-ethics-11558756858)

~~~
ASalazarMX
Would you expect any developing country to not take advantage advantage in the
same situation? At a state level, it would be stupid to attract manufacturing
with cheap labor, materials, lax ambient laws and low taxes and not copy the
technology.

Only an inept government would willingly stall the development of its own
country to honorably respect those trade secrets. Everybody doing business
with China knew, but the economical incentive was too great to pass.

~~~
riversflow
“Developing”. They are the #2 economy.

~~~
yorwba
It doesn't make sense to look at the absolute size of an economy to determine
development status. A country full of subsistence farmers can be #1 economy if
they're numerous enough. China's GDP per capita (PPP) is still less than a
third of that of the US, somewhere between Azerbaijan and the Dominican
Republic.

~~~
riversflow
I couldn’t disagree more. We live on a finite planet with limited resources.
It hardly matters what the PPP is if they destroy the oceans we all use. The
planet is only capable of sustaining so much. Having more people doesn’t give
a nation some sort ethical imperative to have a higher GDP.

~~~
yorwba
That you think China achieving a standard of living like current developed
countries wouldn't be sustainable doesn't change anything about the fact that
they're still developing.

FWIW, polluting water ecosystems is more common in developing countries
(because they don't have the money to care about luxuries like environmental
protection) and they've been slowly regenerating in developed countries, so
from that perspective you should hope for China to become developed faster
rather than slower.

~~~
riversflow
I didn’t say that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth that make this
somehow about nationality. I said that achieving a target PPP before expecting
some restraint on the environment is a ludicrous goal in the face of the
impending environmental cliff. You basically aren’t arguing, but telling me
I’m just wrong and then making me out to really be on about keeping China
down. Maybe try some intellectual honesty.

My point has everything to do with what the global ecosystem can take, and how
much of an impact any nation has on it. As a species we need to figure out how
to develop societies and countries without poisoning the planet.

The concept that because a country hasn’t reached PPP with the US it’s
developing and can do what it pleases is patently insane. The Earth just
doesn’t have the environmental resources for that, it’s already painfully
apparent if you aren’t covering your eyes and ears. The human race can’t wait
for countries to completely develop to play by the rules. Sucks.

Meanwhile China has demonstrably better infrastructure and more development in
terms of cities than the US. I think by a lot of measures the US is still
“developing”, we certainly lack the rail infrastructure of other “developed”
countries for example, and our cities lack the dense, efficient urban cores of
highly developed old world.

To boil my argument down, if China can build an extensive high speed rail
network and capture the global electronics and PV markets they’ve moved beyond
a “developing” economy, regardless of how well off or not the majority of
their populace is.

------
adriantam
Lego is the world's No 1 wheel maker. Michelin is far behind Lego in counts.
But when you need a wheel for your car, you look for Michelin. Same here.
Huawei phone and Apple phone are for different market. You shouldn't compare
like that.

~~~
davidy123
That's a very clever but insulting comparison. iPhone and Android (and etc)
are both clearly smartphones with the same general features. I have to use an
iPhone for work. I try to get the most out of it, but am constantly surprised
how primitive and clunky it is compared to the Android experience.

~~~
saiya-jin
Never had an Apple product so no personal experience - colleague recently
bought an Apple flagship phone (I think previous gen before current gen came).
After few days he was hugely disappointed how little he can tweak the device.
What is there works fine, but that can be also said about phones for 20% of
the price. For him, there was nothing more that would justify the price.

When he sees how much horsepower I have with my Xiaomi mi 9 for 1/3rd of the
price, he wants to cry. It makes better photos too. His biggest regret in
electronics shopping so far.

That comparison must obviously disregard privacy concerns, but I find it
foolish to expect any kind of privacy, on any phone, Apple included. Hence no
critical, single point of failure apps there.

~~~
mrlala
>disappointed how little he can tweak the device. What is there works fine

So.... if it works fine why do you need to tweak it?

As someone who is moving from android to iphone shortly, I am highly excited
to have a device that "just works" and will stay updated. The last thing I
want in a phone is to have to manage it. I have my PC for that part of my
life.

~~~
soylentcola
I guess (as someone else pointed out) it comes down to a difference in
requirements and expectations.

I've mostly used Android for phones since they do the same general things as
iPhones, they work fine out of the box, and stay updated since I only buy
phones with good update policies.

The main difference isn't in how well they succeed, but in how they "fail".
It's true that current iPhones have added most of the features I found lacking
in the past, but there are still a few that have no real workaround. Changing
default apps is still limited, browser restrictions are annoying, and there's
no easy way I know of to enable system-wide ad blocking.

When a phone "just works" as I want 98% of the time, the difference to me is
how able I am to get it working as I want the other 2% of the time. Obviously
this is only based on _my_ needs and expectations so I don't expect anyone
else to share them.

I just bought a new phone for my partner and she has always used iPhones so
that's what I bought for her. She prefers them and that's fine. Only real
annoyance there was paying $750 for a phone with a 828x1792 LCD and 64GB
storage when I paid $550 for my phone a year ago and it has a 1080x2280 AMOLED
display and 128GB storage.

I know "specs don't matter" but it was still surprising. Even with Apple's
market cachet and whatnot, I expected the higher price but also expected a bit
more parity with a year-old phone. It's no surprise that some buyers are
looking toward Chinese and other OEMs.

