
Ethiopian Airlines plane crash: No survivors among 157 on board - niyikiza
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/ethiopian-airlines-flight-nairobi-crashes-deaths-reported-190310082515738.html
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unionemployee
In response to future 'trim system/AOA sensor' comments: Transport aircraft
have a procedure to cut out a runaway/malfunctioning trim or stick pusher.
Usually, this procedure is to press and hold the autopilot disconnect button
on the yoke/stick or the trim switch and then, later, deactivate the system.
The pressing of the autopilot disconnect button or trim switch is a 'memory
item', meaning that it should be performed immediately, without a checklist,
upon recognizing that there's a problem. Previously, this malfunction has been
a rare occurrence, and so can be startling to pilots or not immediately
recognized. I've seen pilots fail to apply the procedure and crash many times
in the simulator, even after being told it was coming. It could be said that
the pilots of the Lion Air aircraft and, potentially, this Ethiopian aircraft
should have known the procedure and reacted properly, however, for Boeing to
put them in this situation is, in my opinion, also quite hazardous. With so
many hastily trained and low-competence airline pilots flying around, should
we really rely on them to understand the technology and react properly?

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tinus_hn
Or should we not have hastily trained low-competence pilots flying around?

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CydeWeys
You could make the same faulty argument to obviate the need for all safety
features on everything. Safety is about defense in depth. Ideally we'd have
all planes flown by perfect platonic human pilots, but such a thing does not
actually exist. All people are flawed (some more than others), and we should
design technology to be resilient in the face of the inevitable human failings
to the fullest extent possible, especially when lives are on the line. Boeing
has simply failed to do so here.

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JshWright
> Ideally we'd have all planes flown by perfect platonic human pilots, but
> such a thing does not actually exist.

Until we teach spherical cows to fly planes, that is...

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appleflaxen
I predict that this is going to end up being a software error related to the
angle of attack sensor (Boeing reported possible problems with the AOA on
11/7/2018)

basis: none whatsoever; just a guess.

[1] [https://www.businessinsider.com/airlines-that-fly-the-
boeing...](https://www.businessinsider.com/airlines-that-fly-the-
boeing-737-max-2018-11)

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JshWright
The incident definitely bears a lot of similarities to the recent Lion Air
crash that prompted that report (control issues shortly after takeoff,
followed by a high energy impact).

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stackola
Second 737 Max to go down within the span of a few months.

I hope it's a coincidence, but that can't look good on Boeing.

E: Removed the word 'sure'

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StreamBright
As I wrote earlier, I am not flying with 737 Max until this issue is going to
be addressed.

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leesalminen
I have 4 flights on 737MAX8 in the next couple weeks. Not feeling great about
it.

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cjbprime
I wonder whether those flights will happen on those planes. There are only a
few hundred MAXs in existence, and now two new ones have failed. Grounding the
fleet wouldn't feel like an overreaction to me.

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leesalminen
Agreed. Debating booking a refundable ticket on another airline that doesn’t
fly MAX in case of a grounding this week.

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cjbprime
Looks like China's grounded all of theirs now.

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cjbprime
I just read that the software update for MCAS (the Lion Air crash cause) had
been delayed and isn't rolling out until next month. If that's true, seems to
raise the probability of this being a similar MCAS issue.

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blantonl
Way to early to speculate as to the cause. You could raise the possibility as
to a number of reasons as to what happened.

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JshWright
The parent comment merely said delayed MCAS training would make it more likely
that it was the cause. That seems like an obviously true statement... If the
training had happen, that would obviously make it less likely.

Given the number of other similarities to the Lion Air crash, I think the
parent comment was being pretty conservative in their speculation (at this
point, I'd be surprised if it _wasn't_ MCAS related).

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cjbprime
Quick clarification: it's a software update to the plane's MCAS (I think
automatically disabling it when the pilots are trying to adjust trim
themselves) that's been delayed, not training.

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vonholstein
Does someone here know offhand the fatality rate for the Max per flying hour
at this time?

[http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm](http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm)
lumps max together with other 737 models, which of course turns out to be very
safe.

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sligor
theses high Flights numbers seems to be incoherent with the fact that Max is a
new plane with small number delivered, it is surely a mistake with the 737NG
(next gen) introduced in 1997

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segmondy
If this is a software error should someone be held responsible? Developer? QA?
Manager? Did they follow their process? Kind of scary for us to think of...

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davesque
Honestly, I know people often jump in here with technical comments on stories
like these, but posting this stuff on HN always just feels like rubbernecking
to me.

