
Weight Lifting for Hackers - jcnnghm
http://littlebitofcode.com/2010/03/01/get-in-shape
======
jadence
I don't see the "for Hackers" angle in this article.

Yes, you can think through problems while lifting but that's hardly unique to
weight lifting. Ditto for books on tape.

I'm not hating on weight lifting here (I've been lifting consistently for 9+
years) but I just don't see this as being Hacker News.

PS - I think you meant to write "read" instead of "ready" here: "In
particular, the Freakonomics audio books are quite good as they are ready by
the author, as is Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell."

~~~
marknutter
The "for Hackers" angle is in the fact that most hackers (and I admit I'm
generalizing here) don't lift weights regularly. He's basically saying, "if
you have written off weightlifting because you think it's just about vanity or
because the gym is full of asshole jocks, you might want to reconsider because
it can actually help your confidence in business, help you to solve problems,
and isn't that hard to get into after all."

~~~
philk
I think it's mostly a gimmick to make this article popular on sites like HN.

In a similar vein, stay tuned for my next two articles "Making a sandwich for
Hackers" and "Cleaning your bathroom for Hackers".

~~~
marknutter
For sure. I can think of no better traffic for a site's google adsense
revenues than the highly tech savvy and ad-wary HN crowd...

To reiterate my point, making sandwiches and cleaning bathrooms is something
most hackers do regularly. Lifting weights is not. A better analogy would be a
"learning calligraphy for hackers" article that explained how learning
calligraphy can be a benefit to hackers and how, given hacker's programming
knowledge, one should go about it.

~~~
starkfist
? I've never met a hacker who regularly cleaned a bathroom.

------
philk
Good stuff although the rep scheme isn't optimal. I'd stick to sets of fives.

A few additional points:

a) Form, particularly on Squats & Deadlifts, is key. If you do them wrong
you'll fuck yourself up. The stuff by Mark Rippetoe, particularly Starting
Strength, is awesome for this.

b) If you want to make progress you'll need to consume a surplus of calories.
A good way to do this is to add full fat milk to your diet (a liter of full
fat milk is approximately ~700 kCal). If you aren't gaining, eat more. If
you're a young, skinny guy just starting out it's very easy to put on 15 lbs
in a month[1] from squatting three times each week and drinking a fuckload of
milk.

c) The advice on lowering the bar slowly then exploding upwards is mostly
crap. Just move the weight under control.

[1] Some of this will be fat but most will be muscle.

~~~
starkfist
Does anyone know of a good book or web resource for training legs and back
with a back injury? I would like to get into Olympic lifts but I have three
slipped discs from overloading a hip sled in high school. I'm pretty strong
otherwise, but my legs are messed up. My injury is under control but when I do
the wrong thing I can't walk for a week.

There is a dedicated olympic lifting school blocks from where I live, but in
my experience almost nobody knows anything about how to train with a back
injury. I'd like to go in at least prepared with the right questions to ask.

I know that Paul Chek has rehabilitated many of my favorite athletes. For
instance, Danny Way broke his neck surfing, and Chek got his body back in
shape for his crazy mega ramp stuff. I was thinking of finding a Chek
certified trainer, but unfortunately it seems that whole scene has veered off
into borderline cult territory.

This is really NOT hacker news but since the topic is here I thought I'd pose
the question. At least it seems like there are some smart people here. Fitness
forums are always bonkers and loaded with bad advice.

~~~
giardini
Here are a couple of recommendations from someone in a similar situation:

a) use a "Roman Chair", but only a particular type of Roman Chair: one that
allows the footrest to be at the same level or above the hip/stomach rest.
That is this (good) <http://www.sport-n-goods.com/acatalog/92625w.jpg> rather
than this (bad)
[http://www.donoliver.co.nz/images/CT-2072%2045%20Roman%20Cha...](http://www.donoliver.co.nz/images/CT-2072%2045%20Roman%20Chair.jpg)

And don't use it the way they usually illustrate here
[http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=op...](http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=roman+chair&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0)

Your back should never be hyperextended (effectively, leaning backward) as if
in orgasmic bliss, as they so often show.

Instead use it like the leftmost 2 photos here <http://www.fitsugar.com/Roman-
Chair-Explained-946313>

The "bad" Roman Chair, the one that puts you at a 45 degree angle with your
head above your hips, will likely injure your back if you have any pre-
existing problem.

Instead use a Roman Chair that puts your feet and hips at the same level and
allows you to hang with your head down and your torso vertical. Once you're in
position (head straight down), lift yourself slowly to 45 degrees from
vertical, no more, lower and try to and relax the back spinal muscles. The
whole point is to use your upper-body weight to stretch out those tight spinal
muscles.

Over time you can add weight. Put the weight on the floor, get in position
(head down) and only then pick up the weight. The greater the weight the more
your back stretches. Increase weights only slowly over the weeks.Always warm
up with no weight first.

b) there are good lower back exercises from the Royal Canadian Airforce 5BX
Fitness Plan at <http://www.corvedale.previewurl.com/5bx/>

chart 1, exercise 2

chart 2, exercise 2

chart 3, exercise 2

Read about 5BX before starting. The chart 1 exercises are intended to be done
for awhile before starting chart 2, etc. That is, don't start at chart 2.
Otherwise you may hurt yourself.

------
polymath21
I wholeheartedly agree with this article. A great blog I recommend is
musclehack.com. For each exercise, I do 3 sets of 8-12 reps and increase if I
can get to 12 or decrease if I can only do 8.

I think one of the biggest errors I see at the gym are people NOT pushing
110%. No gains will be made unless you push yourself to the max. The way I
judge a successful workout is how hard it is to lift my arms up to shampoo my
hair in the shower afterward, how much my legs feel like jelly walking down
stairs after, etc. I also love feeling sore the next day. It equals muscle
fiber recruitment. Diet also has a big impact, but... I won't delve into that
here.

I'm also starting to add in a bit of cardio post-lifting so I can get below
10% body fat (post lifting is the best time to run as your body is in the
optimum state to burn fat), and just bought a pair of vibram fivefingers in
preparation. Excited! Research barefoot running if you haven't heard of it, it
is enlightening.

~~~
polymath21
Oh, and I also totally agree about the audiobooks. I have gotten through
numerous Malcolm Gladwell books on my drives btwn socal and norcal. I can't
get myself to listen to anything at the gym though, as wires annoy me to the
max.

~~~
Psyonic
wireless headphones? pricey, but might be worth it

------
mark_h
I love lifting and exercising, but I don't get at all how you're supposed to
listen to audio-books or think through problems (consciously anyway; that
wasn't made explicit) while you're giving it proper effort. I've always found
that it clears the mind like nothing else, and often found that you have a
better perspective on an issue afterwards, but it's the last thing on your
mind when you're under the bar or gasping through a set of burpees (as another
poster recommended).

Also, since people are recommending their personal favourites, I think you can
do a lot worse than 5/3/1:
[http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_train...](http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength)
He sells (very cheaply) the program, but it's actually almost all in that
interview. One thing not included is his own method for estimating your 1RM,
which differs a bit from the article's: weight + weight * reps / 30. It has
been a pretty useful approximation in my experience.

------
JesseAldridge
Or you could keep things simple and just do this:
<http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/burpeeclip.htm>

It's my favorite exercise by far. Except the way I learned it is you bring
your knees to your chest when you jump (that forces you to jump high).

I do 1, then 2, then 4, etc, taking about a 30 second break in between. It
does both muscles and cardio. It's super-intense. Just go until you collapse.
It gives you a solid workout in around five minutes.

~~~
mark_h
Second that. Ross sells a few training manuals that are all excellent value;
they're quite scientific too, albeit distilled down to what you need to know
(+ citations).

Check out any video clips of him in action if you need any further inspiration
-- the guy is a machine.

------
deutronium
I've recently started Bouldering (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouldering>,
"rock climbing undertaken without a rope and normally limited to very short
climbs over a crash pad") in a Uni bouldering wall and am finding it a good
way to increase muscle strength, whilst also enjoying the strategy aspect of
deciding how to complete a particular route (which to me is more appealing
than the repetitiveness of lifting weights).

~~~
khafra
Most of the fittest geeks I know either do bouldering or martial arts.

------
marknutter
I'm glad to see this article on Hacker News. I started lifting weights way
back in High School for the same reason most people start - to get girls. I
went through a long cycle of going hard for 3-4 months and not lifting at all
for 3-4 months. It took me a long time to realize that it's much more
effective (as in it actually works) to go medium for all 12 months out of the
year.

The most important bits of advice I ever got came from an ex-Olympic weight
training coach: don't rely on a partner to spot you and motivate you and don't
make the workout so hard that it's not enjoyable. The former is important
because your motivation is not tied to someone else's. Over the years I've had
weightlifting partners come and go, but in the end my success has been tied to
my own motivation. The latter is really the key: if you go extremely hard and
kill yourself working out, this will be what you remember on the days you
don't so much feel like lifting, and ultimately it will cause you to
procrastinate.

Consistency is the most important thing, not intensity. Once weight lifting
becomes something routine that you "just do" every day, and not part of some
major life changing period of your life, it starts to work.

~~~
pstevensza
I agree with you on the spotter/partner. I started lifting about six months
ago, and specifically built a program that didn't require a spotter, ramping
up as I get stronger. Lifting is my time to zone out and relax, and I'm not
dependent on other people's scheduling problems or requirements. I also find
that at a certain time of day, I just grab my bag and go to the gym. Fortunate
to have one on the campus where I work, which helps.

------
patrickgzill
I will say very frankly that you should NOT be lifting weights.

I have exercised both with weights and without, and I think for the time
spent, and given that like me most of you probably sit at a desk, you will get
more benefit with less chance of injury, by doing calisthenic/pilates style
exercises.

The reason is that posture and the use of small muscles to make adjustments,
plus working the abs/core, are more important when sitting down, and help you
avoid injury.

The simplest plan is Canada's "5BX" plan designed for their air force.

A more complex set of exercises are the series done by John Peterson, such as
"Pushing Yourself to Power" that focus on using your own body resistance plus
variations on pushups and what are variously called "burpees", "Hindu squats",
etc. (I have no financial or other interest in his company, which is at
<http://www.bronzebowpublishing.com/> )

------
seanos
"...emphasize the lowering of the weights... This helps strengthen the inverse
muscle, your triceps for arm curls, and improves your overall control."

Not true. Lowering the weight works the same muscle as lifting it.

~~~
darshan
Indeed -- it's called eccentric contraction, and the reason you do it is that
it works the same muscles in a different way. Exercise routines that combine
eccentric and concentric contractions (where the muscle shortens as it
contracts) are probably more effective at increasing strength than ones that
focus only on concentric contractions.

This is a really big error, and I don't see how it could be a typo. Agonist
("doer") and antagonist (opposing) muscles contract simultaneously when
stabilizing a joint, but when lifting weights, the antagonists of the primary
action (triceps and to some extent anconeus for curls) are relaxed both during
concentric and eccentric contraction of the agonists (biceps, brachialis, and
to some extent brachioradialis and a few other muscles of the forearm for
curls). That is to say, the author's claim is absolutely wrong.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Eccentric_co...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Eccentric_contraction)

------
nazgulnarsil
ugh....the large number of reps at low weight meme has spread because people
want to believe that they can do an easy workout. if you can do more than 5
reps your weight is too light. there's no such thing as "toned instead of
bulk". lifting casually a few times a week is not going to turn you into a
hulkish freak. and if you want toned you do CARDIO. treating weightlifting as
cardio is stupid.

for the average person doing weighted dips and pullups is more than enough. do
those combined with jogging up hills a few times a week and you'll be in great
shape. if you want to take it further you should be doing olympic lifts.
anything else is really for professionals with specific needs or people with
medical problems.

~~~
bombs
If you're lifting for hypertrophy, more reps is better than more weight, e.g.
15 reps of 100 lbs instead of 6 of 150 lbs or whatever your maximums may be.

~~~
nandemo
No, it's the other way around. See my other comment and this:

 _Physical education students were matched into three groups; G90 (n = 9)
trained with a load of 90%, G35 (n = 11) with 35%, and G15 (n = 10) with 15%
of 1RM (1 repetition maximum). Training consisted of three to five sets,
performed three times a week for 9 weeks. Each set consisted of two, seven and
ten repetitions in G90, G35 and G15, respectively. Training was performed with
the nondominant arm, and the dominant arm served as control. The 1RM increased
15.2 (SD 4.5)% (P < 0.001) in G90, 10.1 (SD 5.9)% (P < 0.001) in G35 and 6.6
(SD 7.9)% (P < 0.05) in G15._

This bit was surprising to me:

 _In the untrained arm, 1RM also increased for G90 and G15. In contrast to
G90, G15 showed a similar increase in 1RM in both arms._

<http://www.springerlink.com/content/qwwpy506jtmdt7v6/>

------
greenlblue
In my experience cardiovascular exercise is way better for almost everything
he mentions and for strength training one doesn't really need weights, various
push-up routines are more than enough.

~~~
philk
I'm having a hard time imagining how push-up routines can match the muscle
building power of heavy squats and deadlifts.

~~~
TNO
Stand on your head and start pushing.

~~~
tjogin
And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the
resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you _can't_ even do a
single pushup like that)?

It's well established science that you should be doing about 5-15 repetitions
per set, depending on whether you're focusing on hypertrophy or strength
(overkill for non-professionals to even make the distinction, just stay
between 8-12) — if you can do more than that then the exercise does not offer
enough resistance, and if you can't do enough repetitions then likewise it's
suboptimal (just like trying to lift a truck is a suboptimal exercise).

So, whenever your exercise using your own body weight as resistance offers you
just the right amount of resistance to keep you within that range, then it's
great. Most of the time though, it will be well outside of that range — so in
the general case, using body weight as resistance is bad advice.

~~~
stonemetal
_And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the
resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a
single pushup like that)?_ Incline and Decline Pushups. At the top of a
standard pushup you are holding in the mid 60s % of your body weight on your
hands. At the bottom in the mid 70s % of your body weight. Changing the angles
changes that value. Of course that still doesn't work out your legs but squats
and other exercises with out weights do pretty well for most general purpose
needs.

~~~
tjogin
It also changes what muscles you are exercising. A 100% inclined pushup works
your shoulders _significantly_ more than your chest, while a normal pushup
exercises your chest more.

It makes it a completely different exercise altogether — the shoulder press
exercise is not a substitute for the bench press and is nowhere near as
efficient an exercise to build your chest muscles.

------
CoachRufus87
made a quick excel spreadsheet using the formulas from the article. i plan on
using this as i (hopefully) get back into shape.

<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3095590/Workout.xlsx>

------
80billion2010
I know first you should disipline your mind and body to be the best what ever
you want to be in life!

------
punkrockgeekboy
"So you’re sold on weight lifting and are ready to put a little pride in your
stride, a little strut in your stuff, but you don’t know where to get
started."

After reading that, I didn't need to look at his about page to know he worked
in marketing. What a douche-bag.

