
Portland’s Disgraceful Anarchy - Dowwie
https://www.city-journal.org/html/portlands-disgraceful-anarchy-15606.html
======
TheMagicHorsey
I've been to Portland, and I live in SOMA. SOMA and the Mission in SF are way
worse than Portland. The article author has no idea how much more anarchy
American progressives are capable of countenancing. SF is faaaaaar worse than
Portland, and there really isn't any political backlash against city
officials. The teenagers in the Bay Area call SOMA "pooptown". When I first
came to learn of this nickname, I was about to protest as a resident, because
I thought it was offensive and didn't reflect the neighborhood, with all its
restaurants and fancy employers. But then I thought about it some more. And I
remembered how on my first day at work in 2014, I stepped in human feces and
tracked it over the office. And I thought these kids are visiting the
neighborhood from other, cleaner suburbs. It makes sense that their primary
impression of the neighborhood would be the large amount of human feces
everywhere ... which would really stand out to them. As residents, we just
walk around the poo, and don't think much about it.

Anyway, I have to agree, we do live in a crime-ridden, feces smeared
neighborhood.

But there's a couple of positives too. First, the crime is almost all non-
violent. And, second, the city cleans up the poo very quickly, if you call
them.

~~~
yammajr
As a non-local, I had to look it up, but presumably you're talking about the
Mission District ("The Mission") and South of Market (SOMA) neighborhoods in
San Francisco, correct?

~~~
ameister14
Yep, that's what he was talking about. Here's the San Francisco poop map -
showing where people pooped in the streets the most there:
[http://mochimachine.org/wasteland/](http://mochimachine.org/wasteland/)

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spamizbad
Is the author aware that by cracking down on homelessness, all you're doing is
spending taxpayer resources to move them somewhere else?

It's not like you enact some anti-homeless policy and the homeless throw their
hands up in disgust, defeated by the swift arm of the law, then pull a resumes
out of their back pocket, and then land some middle-class job.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
Your comment assumes that relocation 1) is bad, and 2) is the only step being
taken to fight homelessness.

In response to the second one, the city may be taking a number of steps to
fight homelessness. Shelters, mental health facilities, drug rehab programs,
and counseling can all help the issue without relocation.

Also, I'm just not sure relocation is completely a bad thing. Portland is one
of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, with rent being
prohibitively expensive to the lower class unless several people congeal in a
single apartment. Not everyone can do that. How is it bad if they are
relocated to a cheaper part of the country?

~~~
spamizbad
> Your comment assumes that relocation 1) is bad, and 2) is the only step
> being taken to fight homelessness.

Relocation does not solve the problem, it simply moves it. Yes, technically,
mass-relocation of homeless could solve _Portland 's_ homeless problem, but it
simply shifts the burden somewhere else.

Second, the article specifically mentions the mayor's inaction to utilize the
police and to enforce a ban on tent cities. It doesn't talk about shelters,
mental health facilities, drug rehab, or counseling.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
> Relocation does not solve the problem, it simply moves it.

Why didn't you argue against my point that the cost of living varies massively
between regions? Why shouldn't we send homeless to a lower cost of living
area?

~~~
grasshopperpurp
>Why didn't you argue against my point that the cost of living varies
massively between regions? Why shouldn't we send homeless to a lower cost of
living area?

Why shouldn't we send you somewhere that you don't want to live? They're
people - not cattle.

------
1001101
Despite the title, this has nothing to do with anarchy in Portland. Disorder,
perhaps, anarchy, no.

~~~
mdpye
At several points, the wording also appears to suggest that being homeless is
in itself a criminal act. There may well be a big problem, but this active
seems quite callously written.

~~~
quasse
It's written by an Ayn Randian conservative think tank, so I wouldn't be that
surprised by the tone.

~~~
michaelvkpdx
They sell all those Rand books in Portland, at Powell's. Every one of them.
It's no wonder that Portland is a hotbed for libertarian thought and free
market propaganda. It's awful. Don't move there.

~~~
dang
What you did in this thread is vandalism in its own right. Trying to defend
one community by dropping crap in another doesn't seem very civil. Neither is
the ingroup/outgroup subtext that seems to me to underly this sort of posting.

Edit: since you've done this before on HN, I've banned this account for
trolling. If you don't want to be banned on HN, you're welcome to email
hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the site
rules in the future.

------
cybervegan
Surely homelessness is, in and of itself, a symptom of a much deeper rot? I'm
not trying to excuse the behaviour of these people, but if you feel that
society has shat on you, and robbed you of your dignity, might you not want to
return the favour? Homelessness is rarely a chosen situation; every homeless
person has a story, often a dire set of circumstances that landed them on the
streets. It may be personal problems, substance abuse, or mental issues - all
things people need help and treatment for. Many of these things are, at the
root, down to lacking education or social support structures; symptoms of a
society that doesn't care.

Don't get me wrong, the affected businesses are justifiably angry, but their
anger is misdirected; sometimes the perpetrators of crime are not the root
cause. In small part, maybe _they_ are part of the root cause.

~~~
aeorgnoieang
So, would you be okay with someone shitting in front of the front door of your
house or apartment? What would you do, personally, to help resolve the root
issues that led to that shit.

------
eric_b
Is it really this bad in Portland? (I've never been)

Based on the number of people moving there and the hype, I can't believe open
defecation and rampant crime are tolerated? Is it really so bad? (And is it
getting worse?)

~~~
40acres
Yes, Portland is both growing very fast (high rise condos are popping up
everywhere) and descending into a hell hole (Google springwater corridor) at
the same time.

Portland has established itself as a safe haven for homeless and down trodden
folks due to it's mild weather, abundance of services, and general lack of
enforcement. I've lived here under two mayor's and both have been horribly
ineffective at tackling this issue. I'm not sure there is another downtown
metro area as bad as Portland when it comes to homelessness.

------
thinkcontext
Better solutions for homelessness are badly needed. The best evidence based
solution is called "housing first", pay to get people into housing then
address their needs. It works out to be cheaper and also is more likely to fix
the problem w/o the quality of life issues talked about here

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First)

San Diego is dealing with a huge Hepatitis outbreak caused by open defecation
around homeless encampments, 20 deaths last I looked.

[http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/sd-me-
hepati...](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/sd-me-hepatitis-
update-20171031-story.html)

------
TYPE_FASTER
> Meanwhile, the city has been reluctant to deploy the crime-prevention
> resources that it already has at its disposal to address the homelessness
> wave.

...

> She added that, “the police came and then he came back four minutes later
> after they left.”

------
hyperion2010
The Bay Area's finest export. Rising property values and the accompanying
homelessness. Why not build some toilets? Has anyone tried? There are designs
for public restrooms that are essentially self cleaning (hole in the ground
with high pressure water nozzles in the ceiling). If you can't even have
enough decency to build a place for someone who has been thrown out by every
other part of society to poop, it seems entirely fair that they choose to do
so on your stoop.

~~~
idiot900
> Why not build some toilets? Has anyone tried?

Yes: [http://theloo.biz/](http://theloo.biz/)

------
akamaka
City Journal is published by the Manhattan Institute.

> The Institute's research seeks to develop and promote free-market ideas.

> [The institute] argued that the welfare state had fostered a culture and
> cycle of dependency that was to the detriment of both welfare recipients and
> the United States as a whole.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Institute_for_Poli...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Institute_for_Policy_Research)

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
How is this relevant? How does this fact invalidate any of what the article
stated?

~~~
_jal
Funny how attribution brings out defensiveness. Do you also think all bylines
should be removed from articles?

It doesn't appear to me that the OP was saying anything about invalidation.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
People naturally form us-vs-them tribal mentalities, and the fact that this is
the top comment of this post indicates that its a tribal mentality that's
leading it to be upvoted.

It's like saying on a Roy Moore post that the investigation was carried out by
CNBC: it leads to Republicans invalidating any finding of the investigation.
This default of ignoring any information from the Other Side is what almost
got Roy Moore elected.

This us-vs-them mentality needs to be noted. The fact that this comes from a
think tank does not immediately mean they don't raise a good point.

~~~
_jal
I agree that tribal bullshit has hit a dangerous fever pitch. I also agree
that the product of think tanks are not inherently incorrect.

But, if you wanted to bet me I couldn't guess what Americans For Prosperity
thinks of the tax bill without reading anything from them about it, I'd take
that bet in a heartbeat.

You don't fix this by ignoring attribution or yelling at people for noting it.
You also don't do so by attacking strawmen.

~~~
johansch
How about just, you know, addressing the points the article made?

~~~
_jal
\- Because nobody ignores attribution.

\- Not only is life it too short to pretend outfits that exist to promote a
particular agenda are, in fact, neutral arbiters _this_ time around, but doing
so is actively empowering bad actors arguing in bad faith.

Puzzle me this: a person you know to be con-artist wants you to do something.
You can't figure out an angle, but it is a weird-seeming thing to ask.

Do you ignore what you know about this person in making your decision?

~~~
johansch
The wonderful thing with multi-user forums like this is the crowd-sourcing
aspect.

------
michaelvkpdx
Portland is terrible. Don't move here. There's nowhere to park. There's
homeless everywhere. There's no real tech companies. There's no VC. And the
air smells like pot.

Don't move here. Trust me. Stay in California. You think it's bad but you have
no idea what happens here. Your children may be kidnapped by Sasquatch.

Did you know that meat might even be illegal in Portland by 2019? And they
still listen to rock music, cassettes, and guitars. Don't move to Portland.

Disgraceful anarchists. Car hating thugs. Dirty homeless people. It's
terrible. The author has no idea how bad it is.

They don't fluoridate water. You can't pump your own gas. They shut down roads
for cars and only allow bikes. It's going to be illegal to drive your own car.
You can't do anything to your property if there's trees in it.

And there's hippies. Real smelly granola types. They all smoke pot all the
time.

Don't move to Portland. It'll ruin your life. The homeless are everywhere.

~~~
cowmix
That's it.. NOW I'm moving.

------
michaelvkpdx
SOMA is So Mach Better than Portland. You can meet other people who work in
your field. No one looks at you weird when you get on the bus for work. You
can get a real burrito. You can find a bathroom. Don't move to Portland. It's
awful.

------
alphabettsy
Sensational title, and the article does not provide insights from other
business owners to show any sense of pervasiveness.

~~~
aplkorex
A friend of mine manages a large business on the outer edge of Portland. He
pulls into work early one morning to find a couple of the homeless living in
the community behind his office dragging a decent amount of power tools into
the vegetation of the greenbelt. We're talking weed-eaters, chainsaws, etc...,
that type of stuff. All rather expensive kit, organized and arranged in a very
methodical manner, maybe 20 items or so. A call to the police results in a
transfer to a third-party mediation team, as the police can't directly
interact with "campers" in a situation of this type. There are several
articles out there commenting on the "legal quagmire" that are Portland's
policies dealing with the homeless community.

~~~
alphabettsy
That may be the case, but I was talking about the article.

