
210k-year-old skull in Greece is earliest sign of modern humans in Europe, Asia - XzetaU8
https://www.latimes.com/science/oldest-modern-human-skull-in-eurasia-story.html
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losvedir
Can someone link to a kind of summary of the current best understanding of
human evolution and dispersal? It's really fascinating to me.

Until recently, I had naively understood "Out of Africa" to mean that _homo
sapiens_ evolved in Africa from some sort of ape like thing and then went out
and conquered the world. But the idea that _homo sapiens_ is just one of many
kinds of human species, and that other ones like Neanderthals and Denosivans
left Africa earlier (or evolved from _homo erectus_ who left earlier
still...?) is really mind blowing. It's weird to me to think of multiple human
species living at the same time.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
The general consensus up until now is, roughly:

Homo Erectus: 1 million B.C. to about 500,000 B.C.

Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens split off from common ancestor: 500,000
B.C.

Homo Sapiens dominate Africa until about 70,000 B.C. when they spread into
Europe, Middle East, and Asia.

Neanderthals dominate Europe, Middle East, and Asia, until 70,000 B.C. when
Homo Sapiens return out of Africa.

There are a few other variations of humans in the 300KYA to 70KYA period,
including: Denisovans (found in Siberia and other places), the "hobbits" found
in Indonesia.

It's possible and likely that around 100KYA, there were several species of
humans cohabiting the earth, including modern humans (H. sapiens),
Neanderthals, Denisovans, a few remaining H. Erectus, the hobbits, and some
mixtures of the above.

Each discovery sheds new light and sometimes, as with this possible modern
human skull, shatters old theories about the timeline.

It's fascinating to think that at one time in the not-too-distant past, there
were multiple species of humans in existence, of which only one survived,
though most non-African humans today carry 2-4% Neanderthal genes, so in a
sense, some traits of the Neanderthals survived. We are the Neanderthals.

It's time we stopped using the term "Neanderthal" as an insult. They were
possibly as smart as modern humans, had larger brains, had tools, ritual
burial, weapons technologies, and art work. Their anatomical structure
indicates that likely they had language. It's possible that they were gentler
than H. Sapiens which would explain how they got gobbled up and made extinct,
despite their vast strength (Neanderthals bone structure and muscle
attachments indicate that they were many times stronger than modern humans.)

~~~
Razengan
> _Homo Erectus: 1 million B.C. to about 500,000 B.C._

Can you imagine the period of sheer.. _uneventfulness?_

It's an indescribable unease for me, imagining a planet where nothing _really_
happens, just animals doing their thing... Even worse if you're a semi-sapient
species, with _just enough_ awareness to know that things could be better, but
not seeing any improvement in your entire life..

I mean, imagine _us_ staying basically the same for the next 50 years, with
nothing really changing in human society, let alone a 100 years, let alone a
1000...

> _there were multiple species of humans in existence, of which only one
> survived_

If there were other sentient species on this planet co-existing with us, we
probably killed them all.

~~~
kevml
If someone traveled from 1200 AD to 1700 AD their lives would not be much
different. The biggest change would be the New World.

If someone traveled from 1919 to 2019 their mind would be blown.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
and imagine traveling from 2019 to 2119. It will probably be almost
unrecognizable to us.

My daughter was born in 2004; she _might_ live to 2119. Almost certainly,
barring accidents, will live to see the 22nd Century. I only hope that she'll
like it. There are so many dystopian predictions -- nanotech killers, evil AI,
war.... I just pray that the world she and future generations inherit will be
worth living in.

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quadcore
To have a feel of long period of time, I always use one metric: my grand
father. He's lived 93 years, so almost 100. 2000 years ago was then 20 grandad
away. Not so long ago after all. 200K ago is 2000 grandad away. Quite some
time but nothing astronomical yet.

~~~
Swenrekcah
You can also think in terms of generations. If everyone has a kid at 20 then
you can draw 100 stick figures in a line to go 2000 years back. Not so long
when you look at it.

~~~
eloff
So this person 200k years ago was roughly 10000 generations ago. That's long
in human terms and very short in the history of the earth.

~~~
lm28469
The entire history of mammals is already quite small when you compare it to
the history of earth. Protohumans/humans history is a drop in the ocean.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Earth#/media/File...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Earth#/media/File%3AGeologic_Clock_with_events_and_periods.svg)

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chubasco
Does it strike anyone else as odd that the two skulls found practically "nose-
to-nose" are 40,000 years apart in age? How do two humanoid skulls
coincidentally end up right next to each other with 40,000 years gap between
them?

~~~
EliRivers
Sea mines placed miles apart during the second world war sometimes end up
settling right next to each other, several miles away. Sometimes tens of miles
away. Sometimes next to a leftover mine from the first world war that arrived
the same way.

The environment in which they exist subjects them to varying pressures and
forces, making them move. When do they stop moving? When they reach a point at
which those pressures and forces cease. That point is the same for all items
that get swept there. Wait long enough, and if another one is part of the same
system of forces that directs towards the same null point, it'll turn up.
Happens with sea mines over the course of a few decades. Could it happen with
skulls over tens of thousands of years? Sure could. Happens with lots of
objects.

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zarathustraa
> _When it comes to figuring out how old something is, archaeologists are
> interested in one element in particular: uranium._

I though fossils were dated with Carbon-14. Did that change?

~~~
ergothus
C14 dating loses precision dramatically past a certain age (~50k years, IIRC),
because of the nature of half-lives. Since this is in the 200k range, C14
wouldn't be the go-to.

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iamgopal
It's scary what humankind set to achieve in next 210k.

~~~
sneak
Extinction?

~~~
astrodust
Yeah, there's basically a zero percent chance of surviving that long intact.

If we do survive it will be by changing and adapting to the point of not being
human any more.

~~~
yellowapple
I wonder if humans/hominids from 210,000 years ago had similar speculations?

~~~
trendoid
I doubt they had the ability to speculate about the future of their (or any)
species.

~~~
astrodust
They weren't stupid, they just had very limited knowledge and experience to
draw on, and very limited tools.

Most importantly they didn't have the ability to directly edit their own
genes.

------
Yajirobe
> When bone is buried in the ground, it can absorb U-238 from the environment.

How? Is there traceable amount of Uranium-238 in every handful of dirt around
the world?

~~~
checkyoursudo
I don't remember specifics from college, but yes, I think there is uranium
pretty much everywhere. Oceans, rocks, dirt, maybe not airborne, but
everywhere else.

~~~
eloff
There is actually enough in the oceans that people have proposed concentrating
it for commercial extraction. Probably not viable, but surprising to think
about.

~~~
bpicolo
Same goes for all sorts of elements, like Gold.

~~~
astrodust
Or mining platinum from the shoulder lane:
[https://hackaday.com/2016/06/06/mining-platinum-from-the-
roa...](https://hackaday.com/2016/06/06/mining-platinum-from-the-road/)

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/8qW4B](http://archive.is/8qW4B)

------
JoeAltmaier
...if the DNA testing proves out. Which hasn't been done yet?

------
est31
Also discussed here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20410982](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20410982)

~~~
dang
Thanks. We'll merge that thread into this one.

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otabdeveloper4
Take the dates with a grain of salt.

Nobody ever got a grant or a paper published for revising towards a younger
date. No discovery in that.

~~~
vkou
> Nobody ever got a grant or a paper published for revising towards a younger
> date.

Really? Is there a published paper with evidence supporting this claim?

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jhare
Nice try, Satan. First dinosaur bones are planted to trick us, and now this?!

~~~
dang
Please don't do this here.

