
Next Generation Eclipse IDE - logn
https://eclipse.org/che/
======
moonchrome
I like the general idea of this.

Considering how much of a resource hog modern C++ compiler is for example (I
hear good things about Scala as well) it would be nice if I could use a
lightweight low powered front end machine to edit code and then have the
backend bother with parsing, compiling, etc. People do this already with
distributed builds so why not make it baked into IDE with code analysis as
well. Maybe the OS can even save memory if you run multiple instances on stuff
like executables, etc.

What I really don't like is how developers are pretending that HTML is the
only client side technology if you go client->server route. To me architecting
this as a HTML app shows 0 benefits - the install time is irrelevant - I am a
developer - I know how to install applications and I do this for all my other
IDEs, the time it takes me to install a thin client is irrelevant.

All this "use JS/DOM as front end" does is either :

compile to JS -> introduce an extra compile step, a shitty VM emulation,
worries with interop and leaky abstractions

use JS -> poor semantics

and both are abusing a layout model made for documents into application
development model that gets really inefficient at rendering.

IDEs are at the top of GUI complexity - why make shit even more complicated by
doing things that slow development down - if they would for example write the
frontend in something like JavaFX (not having used JavaFX I'm only speculating
here, but I heard good things) it would probably be equally good (if not
better) and at the same time it would make development a lot simpler.

~~~
PaulHoule
I think Eclipse was slow enough before the JS/DOM thing came a long.

Back in the bad old days GNU emacs was written in LISP but it always seemed
pretty peppy.

Today there are a lot of editors written in modern scripting languages and/or
the JS/DOM environment such as Atom and Light Table and they all seem just a
little bit laggy.

~~~
noxToken
I've only used three different IDEs/editors with regularity: Eclipse, IntelliJ
and Sublime Text. I've dabbled with others like Atom and Brackets, and you're
right, they all seem to have a bit of "heft" to them - except for Sublime
Text. It starts up quickly. It's closes quickly. It's always immediately
responsive. What makes it different from the others?

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
Sublime is an editor, not an IDE, isn't it? Afaik it does not have a complete
model of the code in my workspace, the way Eclipse would.

~~~
noxToken
True. It's only an editor. That's why I brought up Atom and Brackets. Neither
of them are slow per se, but they don't feel as instantaneous as Sublime Text.
No matter how many plugins I throw in there, the size of my project, the
number of files open, ST always feels like the most responsive thing I've ever
used.

I don't have any objective data, but perhaps it's due to the Kool-aid. It was
the second text editor I used (Notepad++ being the first). I fell in love
immediately.

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
No I agree, ST feels just right. Why anyone would want to use the DOM and JS
for the view layer in a project as demanding as an IDE is beyond me.

When I put my ear to the ground and listen really hard, I can hear the
vibrations of a herd thundering by in the distance. I think I know that noise,
I've first heard it when people were XMLifying everything back in 2000.

~~~
moonchrome
To be fair, Microsoft did a really really good job with VSCode - it can easily
search big files that Atom completely chokes on.

It does have a problem with files bigger than a few MB tho - but native
editors like gedit chooked on that too so I can't blame them too much.

And it has that smooth input animation that not many native editors have but
it adds so much to the feeling of responsiveness (other editor I've noticed
using this is latest intellij versions).

My point wasn't even so much about performance, with enough effort you could
work around most of the issues (at least in some browsers, kind of dumps on
the idea of "portability").

My point was that the whole GWT -> JS this took or the coffeescript Atom took
is such a pain on the ass to develop with compared to a real GUI toolkit -
just think of the developer productivity without the stupid GWT compile times,
special cases, etc.

Think how nice of a development expirience you would have with something like
Kotlin + JavaFX, or C# and WPF.

I really really wish Microsoft would open source GUI stack from Silverlight
and let community maintain it as a cross platform GUI framework for CoreCLR -
they already had it running on OSX meaning it can run on non-windows tech -
meaning the porting path exists, and a lot of work went into silverlight GUI
controls historically, plus it's WPF compatible. They could make "portable
profile WPF" from it if they wanted, and also target mobile and desktop, from
Visual Studio and Visual Studio Blend - the ultimate Enterprise app
development platform

~~~
TylerJewell
With vscode there are some clever architectural choices they made to create a
near native experience. They use stdin / stdout integration between native
services (like those for Go programming language) and the editor itself. It's
anothe form of reuse for the libraries that already do intellisense,
compilation, or other syntax-specific functions.

In the 2nd and 3rd generation codenvy systems, we tried to duplicate some of
the JDT capabilities for Java directly within the browser with webworkers. We
had to write that in JavaScript. I believe this is how C9 handles their
support for HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.

We had pretty decent support, but there were all sorts of issues: having to
rewrite JDT services is nearly impossible and really the domain of language
teams, the browser has limited context where many intellisense services need
access to multiple directories and meta information, and there were some
performance issues in certain edge cases that are hard to resolve without
having certain I/O and cache mechanisms (which are readily available on file
systems).

So the VSCode model of reusing the language services and then layering on a
stdin / stdout protocol is pretty smart. We are doing a similar approach with
Che, but instead of stdin / stdout, we are packing a restful interface on top
of the JDT & JavaScript services. We see some potential to consolidate vscode
& other approaches into a multi-language intellisence server, powered by REST
+ stdin + stdout. That would be really fun to have all programming languages
remotely accessible through a common protocol.

------
ivan_burazin
I know a lot won't agree, but seriously Cloud IDEs can be very useful.
Especially If you are a Web Developer, so if HTML, Node, PHP is you thing I
would definitely recommend try them out.

Of course I am biased as I am the cofounder of Codeanywhere.com which is a
Cloud IDE its self.

But just to make a point we actually built all of Codeanywhere inside
Codeanywhere. Welcome any comments...good or bad :)

~~~
k__
Why don't you do it like Chrome/Firefox sync?

There's one thing I really hate about coding and that is getting my
environment up and synced.

This is why I would consider using CodeAnywhere.

Throw your IDE into Electron and make offline counterparts to the online stuff
and it would be a nice package.

But writing a config sync plugin for Atom would be enough for many, I guess

~~~
ivan_burazin
You actually read my mind :))

~~~
TylerJewell
Yes ...

One of the key objectives that we are exploring with Eclipse Che is the idea
of workspace portability. The workspace itself is composed of two things: 1\.
The projects (and their source bindings), and: 2\. Their environments, which
are the stack of tools and runtimes that you need to perform work on the code
such as refactoring, debugging, compiling.

We have created an abstraction of the worksapce to the environment that it is
bound to. And then this entire definition is exportable and movable between
Che instances or to a cloud that is supporting Che, such as what Codenvy will
run.

Because the workspace definition defines its machines in the workspace object,
then we can recreate the exact machine you need to do the same work on another
node.

We use docker to implement this behavior.

We are not fully done with all of this work, but we have a lot of prototypes
that prove this can do well.

There are some challenges - if you want to "save" your workspace, do we
snapshot the machines every time, or only sometime? Do we force a remote
commit & push? it'll be up to the user. But once all of the commits are done,
then we have to push the images into a shared registry and ensure that
everything is remotely accessible.

Once all of this is done then any other machine can reproduce an identical
workspace.

------
meshko
Moore's law is going to stop working soon but humanity keeps piling up
abstractions as if we had an infinity of computing power growth in front of
us.

------
hphuoc25
Has anyone tried this? Is there any improvements in performance/code sense
intelligence? Is is anywhere closer to Intellij IDEA?

~~~
jakejake
I've been playing around with it for about 15 minutes so far. Eclipse is my
main IDE, so I would say I'm fairly a power user for Eclipse.

This is not a new version of the existing Eclipse (or Intellij). It's not a
desktop app at all, it's a web server that starts and then your browser opens
the EclipseCHE "web app." The IDE is merely a web interface - everything is
happening on the CHE server (which would make the most sense if you install it
on a separate machine altogether).

As far as the IDE, it's actually kinda amazing for a web app. If the browser
chrome was missing it would seem like a desktop app (except the menus are in
the wrong place for OSX). The intellisense doesn't seem to be working yet as
far as I can tell. Maybe this is just PHP, though? It shows valid PHP code
highlighted in red as if it were an error (edit - restart seems to have fixed
this). I wish so badly that one of the dark themes for Eclipse looked this
good, though. I've tried for days to get a decent dark Eclipse theme going -
they all suck.

It seems that it may be creating a docker container for your project. You
don't open local files on your machine (there is actually an 'upload' function
to add a file to your project though). The files don't exist on your normal
filesystem - they exist on the server, perhaps in a container, or just some
internal folder structure that the server controls..? It seems to want to
handle it all magically, which means I can't easily try it out on one of my
existing apps. This is not really normal for my PHP workflow, but perhaps it
would be perfect for those who have their app already in docker containers?

I can't get an application to run at this point. I have docker installed, but
it just hangs with the message "Your request is queued waiting for a node to
become available..."

Overall, it looks extremely interesting - especially for a team environment
where everything is containerized. Just point a new team member at a URL - and
the IDE and server environment is 100% set up, ready for them to start coding,
debugging and running the app. There would be essentially zero setup time for
working on your app.

~~~
diminishedprime
Have you tried Solarized Dark for Eclipse? That's the one I like best when I'm
working in there.

~~~
jakejake
I have tried it and it's not horrible. The difficulty is that the chrome is
styled one way, and the text inside the editors is styled another way. And
neither of them are quite able to style everything!

I found the dark themes to look great with certain, staged screenshots. But
then when you use it, the scrollbars are blaring white. Or the bar that shows
your code blocks can't be styled (controlled by the OS). So you wind up with a
mostly dark theme that has 2 or 3 blaring, ugly, mismatched elements that
defeat the purpose.

Styling the editor window is something I've spend days tediously trying to
tweak a nice pastel color pallet (that pretty much every app with a dark theme
uses). But all the included ones are bright neon colors or just radically
weird color choices. I've been able to get my code window 95% the way I'd
want, but then all of the other windows like the explorer or the console don't
match! The settings are all over the place and sometimes take a restart of
Eclipse to if you got the right setting or not.

Basically I just gave up with the dark theme because it seems there's no way
to get it consistent.

------
grizzles
I tried it out. My first thought is, I wish I had downloaded a binary version.
It was a 21min compile on my core i7.

Besides that, it looks very promising. The feature set is fairly humble, which
is imo a good thing.

The best thing the devs could do now (they may have already did this) is to
thoroughly document the server side API.

Most of the extensions I'd be interested in writing wouldn't really fit into
the standard IDE paradigm, and that's what I think could be really cool about
this. The ability to code an env (eg. in a seperate .html file) while I code
is a very appealing prospect.

~~~
TylerJewell
Hi - I am eclipse che project lead and founder of codenvy.

A couple of things: 1\. If you checkout che. 2\. Go into assembly-sdk 3\. mvn
clean install

If you do this directory, you just download the binaries - will take only a
couple minutes.

You will want to checkout 4.0 branch, which has all of the new capabilities
and design into it. We have swagger APIs that you can access for all of the
RESTful stuff. It should be at [http://localhost:8080/im-api-docs-
ui/](http://localhost:8080/im-api-docs-ui/). I am going to verify with the
engineers and get back to you if the URL has changed for Che 4.

------
johnhenry
I wonder if anyone can comment on how this compares to cloud 9 IDE?
([https://github.com/c9/core/](https://github.com/c9/core/))

~~~
jasonszhao
I thought for a moment that it actually said "Cloud 9 IDE". Seriously, why
does CHE look like a Cloud 9 + IntelliJ clone?

~~~
alttab
Because...

------
vineet
Seems like Codeenvy open sourced their IDE.

~~~
stephen
Huh; yep, the commit to relicense it as Eclipse/EPL was 18 days ago:

[https://github.com/codenvy/che/commit/db5b0bc2a1e2b4f3d7a7a2...](https://github.com/codenvy/che/commit/db5b0bc2a1e2b4f3d7a7a23210cbf34c2f15992f)

~~~
tuananh
they also updated the project description link

------
melted
Because writing an IDE in a real programming language wasn't hard enough.
<facepalm/>

~~~
thecatspaw
whats wrong with java?

~~~
hellofunk
I think many find Java to be quite inflexible and old compared to new
programming paradigms of the last decade. It's much harder to get things done
in Java than in many other languages due to how restrictive it can be (i.e.
the notion that all things must be an OO class, etc). It is also not an
elegant language, requiring lots of verbosity and boilerplate which tend to
get in the way.

~~~
chrisseaton
What new programming paradigms have been developed in the last decade? I can't
think of any.

~~~
hellofunk
Many of the older paradigms have been popularized and gone mainstream in the
last 5 to 10 years.

------
nickysielicki
This looks AWESOME. It's effectively going to replace eclim.

I just hope the backend is thoroughly decoupled from the UI, and that appears
to be the case from first glance. I can't wait to try to pair this with
neovim.

edit: the more I look at this the less this seems to be the focus of the
project. That makes me a little sad.

~~~
TylerJewell
We have worked hard to decouple the front end from the backend, which is
powering workspaces, enviornments, and machines.

The client side can interact with any server side component over REST or web
sockets.

is there a particular use case that you'd like some elaboration on?

------
stephenr
From that page I'm confused.

Is this an update of the "traditional" Eclipse IDE, or a new browser based
IDE? What does a "workspace server" mean?

~~~
gravypod
Che is a web based IDE from what I have heard. The github site is better
organized: [https://github.com/codenvy/che](https://github.com/codenvy/che)

~~~
gherkin0
> a web based IDE

This is exactly what I didn't want. Please tell me that this "next generation"
stuff is just inaccurate hype, and that this is really just some minor Eclipse
offshoot.

~~~
alblue
It uses the same Eclipse technology, but it isn't the next version of Eclipse.
Like Orion, it is an experiment at looking at what a web-based IDE can do.

The existing Eclipse IDE will continue for a long time yet - Eclipse Neon will
be released in six months time with full Java 9 support, for example.

~~~
Gibbon1
The great thing about web based IDE's and the reason we will see more of this
in the future is the opportunity for vendor lock in. Once you can control a
developers tool chain you can prevent him from moving to another vendor
because of all the stuff he can't take with him.

~~~
qznc
Hosting it myself would be a requirement for using a cloud IDE. Of course,
there is still some lock-in, but the lock-in is the same with a desktop IDE.

In general, a cloud IDE has some nice promises: Initial setup is trivial; More
efficient building and testing due to resource sharing in the cloud; Live
collaboration is simpler. However, so far I'm underwhelmed by everything
available.

~~~
gravypod
As Alblue says, Che seems to be a host-your-own alternative. I think this use
case is something that I have been looking for.

Writing some huge web/analytic application that needs a huge cluster? Throw in
a few docker nodes with applications that have APIs that are needed for
running the project.

Good luck starting that on your laptop.

For me, I want to ultimately have my laptop be downgraded to a chromebook or
something small, cheap, and with a long battery life. To do that, tools like
this really fill a nice area.

Something I've been looking for.

------
MrPatan
I use cloud IDEs, more for the cloud workspace than for the IDE, I guess.

Maybe I could have the same thing with VMs or containers (disclaimer: I've
never even set up docker or vagrant), but I still would like to have that in
the cloud where somebody else takes care of patching stuff, backing up data,
etc, and I can share it with a URL if I want to, instead of with a multi-GB
file.

I'm too lazy to care about my infrastructure anymore, and I'm happy I can pay
other people to do it for me.

~~~
lewisl9029
Specifying a Vagrantfile and Dockerfile is usually the first thing I do for
any non-trivial project these days. I find there's tremendous value in having
a fully reproducible dev environment on all of the different OSes and machines
I work on, and I suspect the benefits would be even more pronounced in a team
environment.

The cloud IDE takes this concept even further by only ever having a single
source of truth for the dev environment, but this comes at the cost of offline
access and choice of editors, which is a compromise I'm not willing to make
yet.

------
bobajeff
This looks like something that would be useful to me. As I've been wanting to
have a decent C++ IDE that I can run on my server and access on any machine.

I've tried to use Vim+ctags over ssh for this purpose but am not really
satisfied with the results.

~~~
jmcphers
I do this all the time. You want the Vim plugin YouCompleteMe[1]. It
integrates with clang and gives you real-time C++ code completion and linting,
plus a semantic jump-to-definition that outdoes ctags for most symbols (though
it doesn't go outside the translation unit so ctags is still useful for
finding implementations).

[1]
[https://github.com/Valloric/YouCompleteMe](https://github.com/Valloric/YouCompleteMe)

~~~
nickysielicki
In my opinion, neocomplete / deoplete are far better than YCM if you can be
bothered to configure it.

My nvim init.vim is here:

[https://github.com/sielickin/dotfiles_nvim/blob/master/.conf...](https://github.com/sielickin/dotfiles_nvim/blob/master/.config/nvim/init.vim)

~~~
Nr7
Are there any major issues with deoplete? The readme says it's not ready for
production.

~~~
nickysielicki
I have been using it for 1.5 months with zero issues. I recommend it if you're
using neocomplete, the configuration is nearly exactly the same so switching
to it and then back again is not a hassle.

Make sure you call :UpdateRemotePlugins

~~~
Nr7
Thanks. I use YCM currently, but I've been curious about other options. I'll
have to try deoplete.

------
martin_
When did PHP get demoted from language to framework?

~~~
erikb
PHP never was a language, actually. There is no language description, only an
interpreter. So I don't know if it's a framework, but a language it's not.

~~~
spacemanmatt
It's a scripting language in the classic sense -- limited such that you could
not write a real application in it, but useful orchestrating activities
delegated to it. And like all classic scripting languages it should be
replaced with a real language embedded or exposed such as Clojure or Python.
IMNSHO.

~~~
erikb
Not being a language doesn't mean you can't do meaningful things with it. My
car is also not a language but a very valuable tool. Just like something is a
car because it has 4 wheels, a motor and an enclosed space to sit in, in the
same way something becomes a programming language by having a defined grammar.
That's all. No reason to think I disregarded someone's favorite tool.

------
stshine
This is awesome, finally we can get a decent java develop environment in
emacs.

------
jMyles
Switched from Eclipse (LiClipe) to PyCharm in March of this year. Can be
convinced to switch back.

Anybody done it yet?

------
karussell
It is really funny how a very similar idea was in 2008 the April fool from
Roman Strobl / Netbeans:
[https://blogs.oracle.com/roumen/entry/netbeans_7_0_plans_unc...](https://blogs.oracle.com/roumen/entry/netbeans_7_0_plans_uncovered)

Already at that time I thought - why leave such a nice idea on the street?
Others will pick it up ...

~~~
karussell
And isn't stuff like this extremely helpful for pair and remote programming? I
like this and the self-hosted cloud IDE approach :)

~~~
stephenr
Remote/Pair programming is a feature of several desktop IDEs.

~~~
karussell
I knew one for Eclipse but others too? (looking for Java IDEs)

[https://karussell.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/real-time-
editing...](https://karussell.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/real-time-editing-with-
eclipse-and-netbeans/)

~~~
stephenr
Komodo IDE has it.

At the text-editor level, SubEthaEdit has it, and the same library is used by
Coda (and thus they are compatible)

I vaguely remember there as a company providing plugins for multiple IDE's to
accomplish some kind of pair programming - ah i found it:
[https://floobits.com](https://floobits.com)

------
Ciantic
I've used Eclipse for PHP/CSS/JavaScript for too many years, it is still the
only Open Source IDE than can do auto-completion, outline and Go to
definition, Go to reference reliably for PHP.

But things have gotten to boiling point. It can't handle newer technologies,
like LESS, there is no good extensions for anything relatively new.

I think Atom (and my preferred VS Code) is the future of IDEs, there is a lot
of people behind these working on new features and extensions for these. And
having HTML rendering engine behind the IDE does make it more approachable for
hacks, simple and useful ones.

~~~
VeryVito
I always opt for open-source when available, but after having used JetBrains'
PHPStorm for PHP/CSS/JS/etc, I can't even pretend Eclipse is still a viable
solution.

Although the community version of IntelliJ at PHPStorm's core is open-sourced,
PHPStorm itself is not. Regardless, the productivity gain it provides is WELL
worth the cost and inconvenience.

------
mathgladiator
Just briefly looking at this, I'm very excited. I'm going to start playing
with it tomorrow for sure.

~~~
mathgladiator
I was optimistic that this was going to be a good alternative to my current
VNC + IntelliJ setup, but I started playing with it with a bunch of real code,
and I hate to be a buzz kill...

(1) the folders break all the time. And refreshing the folder list doesn't fix
it. The hierarchy gets broken, and I regretfully can't screenshot it.

(2) where is the junit runner? One of the reasons I think IDEs are pretty
great is that I can run single junits, and I don't see this working in any
capacity.

(3) Why do I see menus for svn / git? What about hg? I prefer to use command
line for source control, can I hide these?

(4) Is the timeout for the build configurable? I have a build that takes
several minutes due to a large number of tests, and it is unable to build due
to a timeout

(5) the auto complete seems very broken; maybe it is my project (using maven).
It appears to import the dependencies just fine, but beyond that it produces a
lot of errors.

(6) I thought this would have the eclipse refactor support, but I do not see
it.

~~~
TylerJewell
I think you are usin the 3.x branch. We didn't expect to get HN or Scobled so
early.

Would you do a couple things: 1\. Check out the 4.0 branch. 2\. Go into
assembly-sdk 3\. mvn clean instal.

Now run the next generation version. We are a few months away from having it
fully stabilized, but many of the experiences you are seeking are in this
branch.

We are running the JDT underneath inside of your workspace machine, and we
have refactoring, debugging, find usages, etc in there.

~~~
mathgladiator
I am. And HN is kind of like the spanish inquisition...

As much as I hate being a buzz kill, I am wishing you guys my best. This is
pretty awesome, and I'm looking forward to more progress.

I'll start following trunk once I get time to set it up. I'm in the camp that
can't use docker since I have to mount eclipse to a sub directory of a very
large repository.

------
reitanqild
Interesting. Layout looks a lot like Netbeans, example:
[https://eclipse.org/che/img/che-
lighttheme.png](https://eclipse.org/che/img/che-lighttheme.png)

------
Nullabillity
Trying to launch the docker image seems to make my laptop require a reboot.

Ubuntu 15.04, Docker 1.9.1

------
mrmondo
Would be interested to see this working with puppet and test labs...

------
mbfg
How does one debug an application in a web based IDE? That would seem to be a
pretty stifling limitation.

------
stuaxo
Have they simplified the thing where you get about 8 levels of confirmation to
do things?

~~~
TylerJewell
Yeah - make sure you work on the 4.0 branch.

But the intellisense is pretty seamless. We use Eclipse JDT services and have
a lot of intellij-like experiences. so the experience is fairly similar.

------
luisrudge
really? che? as in che guevara? The executioner / mass murderer?

~~~
TylerJewell
as in Cherkasy, Ukraine, the city that originally wrote it.

------
rspeer
I'm wondering why the "meticulous design" still looks like an explosion in a
GUI widget factory.

In the screenshots I'm looking at, there are dropdowns inside panels inside
tabs inside more panels. There are _five tab bars_. There are completely
unnecessary icons for "cut", "copy", and "paste". There's a "Subversion" menu
and a "Git" menu at the same time. There's... a user switcher? I don't even
know what that means. The actual code takes up like 40% of the screen.

Is this actually what programmers want from an IDE, or just what they have
come to expect?

~~~
stephenr
I think this is unfortunately why people get a bad idea about an IDE.

I don't want a tab or button for everything. I _want_ to primarily write text
(i.e. code) but I also _want_ it to be intelligent about what I'm writing -
i.e. I _want_ the autocomplete, the parameter hinting, the type checking (i.e.
can't use the result of a void method, or can't do string ops on an array
etc). I also _want_ the option to have refactor helpers (moving methods,
renaming methods, changing argument order, etc).

I've found IDEA (and before that PhpStorm, but it supports less plugins) are
generally able to meet that need but you have to be careful about which
plugins you install. I want Lua support, that doesn't mean I want a Lua
console button in all projects.

~~~
sunnyps
You should have a look at QtCreator which follows a minimal IDE philosophy.
The only downside is that it's only for C++.

~~~
72deluxe
Most IDEs can thankfully be trimmed down to look like QtCreator.

I daily write in Xcode and that is very slimmed-down. In fact, Visual Studio
developers typically hate it on first using it because there is only editors
on the screen as opposed to property panes both sides of the editor!

And I would say that it is ONLY C++ is truly a benefit to QtCreator!! No use
trying to be everything to everyone. Plus, C++ is the best language for
everything isn't it? (I jest, I jest)

------
cognivore
What, it's not written in HTML/CSS/JS?! How antiquated...

------
frik
Can someone write a comparision of Eclipse vs Eclipse NextGen, and against
IntelliJ, VSCode, VS.

How is the UI latency if one opens a Java file with 1 KLOC or a 2MB XML?

~~~
alblue
This isn't "Eclipse NextGen", it's Eclipse Che. It's an open source version of
a prior project that was well received (codeenvy).

Re performance I've seen demos of Eclipse Orion (another web based IDE
experiment) where they had 100kloc JavaScript files and still be pretty
performant.

~~~
grennis
The hero banner literally says "Next Generation Eclipse IDE"

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dschiptsov
Even more bloated?)

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roflchoppa
next generation eMacs (previous gen actually)

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ivantsoft
This is definitely the future

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ivantsoft
This is definitely Eclipse future

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dsz
I give a try with docker, it works. IMHO both can co-exist, on/off line. Maybe
in near future we can use tablets to develop.

