
Low-earth orbit satellites threatened by debris from Indian anti-satellite test - ENOTTY
https://breakingdefense.com/2019/04/indian-asat-debris-threatens-all-leo-sats/
======
Abishek_Muthian
Blind nationalism would deter our progress as a species.

Ever since NASA chief's comment, the arguments have been very polarised. What
NASA said is scientifically accurate & being one of the major stake holder in
ISS it has a duty to tell its opinion. There are people in International Space
Station, don't forget that their family on earth would want an answer from
NASA for such incidents.

The issue in the country seems to be, not what NASA said; but why did it say
that!

Yes, US has conducted similar tests & its debris went further in apogee as
well & since it didn't change orbit[second application of delta-v is required
to do that]; it decayed eventually. Same will happen with the debris we caused
as there is not much change in perigee.

If ASATs renew new arms race across the planet & everyone starts blowing
satellites, it's not good for the humanity.

If Israel can enforce deterrence as a nuclear power without conducting or
acknowledging major nuclear tests, India can project space warfare ready
without indulging in such activities; after all there was no doubt about our
rocket engineering capabilities to start with.

Edit : Typo

~~~
yumraj
Blind idealism/pacifism will wipe out countries/races/societies.

India didn't choose it's neighbors, but it is what it is. On one side is a
country whose identity is defined by anti-India-nism. On the other side is
China, need I say more. Moreover, both these neighbors are ganged up by their
mutual animosity of India.

India doesn't have any options but to make sure there are deterrents in place.
It's a necessity.

~~~
guitarbill
> On one side is a country whose identity is defined by anti-India-nism. On
> the other side is China, need I say more

Two incredibly low blows, although I suppose this way you've made your
isolated point of view very clear.

> Moreover, both these neighbors are ganged up by their mutual animosity of
> India.

Another way of saying this is they've been successful in maintaining strong
ties via diplomacy and trade, to the benefit of their peoples.

> India doesn't have any options but to make sure there are deterrents in
> place. It's a necessity.

There have always been options; some of which India has rejected themselves,
arguably leading to the souring of other international relations. This weapons
test will hopefully lead to condemnations and repercussions, direct or
indirect.

For example, I would welcome the IRSO being excluded from further policy-
making as part of the Inter-Agency Space Debris Coordination Committee (IADC).

~~~
BurningFrog
Calling China "China" is an incredibly low blow?

~~~
glennpratt
You ignored the rest of the sentence.

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r3bl
Worth noting: India is the fourth(!) country that destroyed a satellite in
orbit.

While I would love nothing more but for it be the last country to do so, the
precedent was set some time ago. The one that China destroyed in 2007 (or
2008?) was by far the biggest, creating thousands of pieces of debris bigger
than a golf ball. 270 pieces (detected so far after India destroyed a
satellite) seems pretty insignificant in comparison.

~~~
tomrod
This smacks of a justification through tu quoque fallacy. Just because other
nations destroyed satellites doesn't mean this type of weapons testing should
continue. We should criticize nations that did this before AND India.

Polluting LEO to the point where we endanger our ability to get off the earth
is extremely myopic.

~~~
msravi
> We should criticize nations that did this before AND India.

Sure. Just that the "we" cannot be one of the nations that did this before, as
is the case here. That's hypocrisy and entitlement.

~~~
justin66
Plenty of people _within_ the US objected to ASAT testing when the US planned
it and then did it. We're not all blind followers defined by our citizenship,
in the US or in India.

------
kappi
[https://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2019/04/](https://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2019/04/)
most of the debris will stay on orbit for several weeks to months: by half a
year from now, most of it should be gone however, except for a few lingering
pieces.

Probability is very low similar to the one in the below article.

Odds of hitting is 1 in 300 Trillion
[https://www.livescience.com/61955-chinese-space-station-
reen...](https://www.livescience.com/61955-chinese-space-station-reentry.html)

~~~
dosy
Aside: Any idea what that Latin motto is on this blog?

TOTUS VESTRI ARCANA NOCTI NOBIS EST

Google translate refused.

~~~
figgis
Don't know latin in any way shape or form. Just was curious and used this like
a small puzzle. Added a bit more context to words that weren't very self
explanatory.

    
    
        TOTUS - all/whole
    
        VESTRI - your
    
        ARCANA - secrets
    
        NOCTI - night? - 'used in formation of compound words' [0]
    
        NOBIS - us/we
    
        EST - to be - "can be translated as 'it is,' 'he/she is,' or simply 'is.' It is the third person singular of the present tense of the verb 'to be'" [1]
    

Sooo my guess would be something along the lines "All the secrets of the night
belong to us?"

If someone knows any better I would love to be corrected.

[0] -
[https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nocti-](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nocti-)
[1] - [https://study.com/academy/answer/what-does-est-mean-in-
latin...](https://study.com/academy/answer/what-does-est-mean-in-latin.html)

------
glax
Pentagon says debris from India’s ASAT expected to burn up in atmosphere [0]:

[https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/mission-shakti-
pentago...](https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/mission-shakti-pentagon-
asat-space-debris-nasa-india-1494540-2019-04-05)

------
mips_avatar
Just wait until an armed conflict. China/Russia/US/India will take about 20
minutes to blast every satellite in the sky. Then space will be inaccessible
for decades at least.

~~~
kuzehanka
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome)

And that's how we close off our only window to expand beyond this planet as a
species.

~~~
gruez
From your link:

>The catastrophic scenarios predict an increase in the number of collisions
per year, as opposed to a physically impassable barrier to space exploration
that occurs in higher orbits.

~~~
kuzehanka
That's a really good point, thanks for highlighting it.

------
LargoLasskhyfv
Let's all reminisce about
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Ford](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Ford)
@
[http://stuffin.space/?intldes=1963-014AA&search=westford](http://stuffin.space/?intldes=1963-014AA&search=westford)
and hope for some really magic fairy dust sprinkling brighter through the
light shine of our frozen cityscape hells.

------
faiz7412
Be cautious of the stupid. That's all.

[http://www.zoon.cc/stupid/](http://www.zoon.cc/stupid/)

------
everyone
Anyone who works in space here have any ideas on how feasible they reckon this
Raytheon Space Debris Elimination (SpaDE) technique is?

[https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/niac_20...](https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/niac_2011_phasei_gregory_spade_tagged.pdf)

------
brij0102
Maybe the illustrious members of HN should stick to their strengths and come
up with a technological solution to the following two: \- how can a nation
achieve equivalent ability as this without actually destroying a satellite \-
how can such debris be rendered harmless

------
cm2187
What I don't get is that not only the surface in question is enormous (even
more vast than the oceans), but also in 3d (think tens of thousands of layers
of ocean surface). How can a few dozen 10cm debris be such a big deal? They
may be deadly if a collision occur but how likely is such a collision?

~~~
knolan
So a volume?

These are several hundred objects travelling with enough momentum to do
catastrophic damage to launch vehicles and other orbiting equipment. They’re
not icebergs floating on the ocean, they’re bullets whizzing through that
volume at incredible velocities.

Would you get on a plane if every airport runway doubled as an active shooting
range?

~~~
cm2187
A runway is a tiny place. My point is that we are talking about an immense
amount of space.

~~~
knolan
Through which we have to send all our launches. The debris field is growing
and this and other tests are contributing to it. The debris isn’t likely to be
homogeneous over this volume either.

Our launch sites are tiny spaces designed to reduce launch cost by getting a
boost from the earths rotation or to select particular orbits. That these
narrow corridors may be polluted with debris from satellites launched into
very similar orbits is frightening in the extreme.

------
ronsor
It was obvious that blowing up things in orbit is a bad idea.

~~~
petre
The military abounds with bad ideas.

------
CodeSheikh
After conducting such tests what was India’s plan to remove such debris? Just
because “they did it why can’t we do it?” rationale is not to support this
act. They should be hold accountable.

~~~
mritun
“They should be held accountable “.

Yeah, India should be held accountable to the same degree that others 3 were
held to.

------
angel_j
This is plastic in the ocean for earth's orbit. We'll never be able to remove
the debris. It's only a small amount now, but give it a few hundred years...

~~~
marcosdumay
> but give it a few hundred years...

A few hundred years is how long things stay on those orbits.

~~~
Dylan16807
Replace 'years' with 'days' for this one.

~~~
marcosdumay
Well, replace on a orbit with on any orbit on my comment, that's closer to
what I meant.

I was also talking about normal orbits, not the highly excentric stuff you get
after an explosion. Since the GP was about long term concerns, that's more
fitting. Yes, the debris of this one explosion will be almost all (or maybe
literally all) gone in a month.

And yes, hundreds of years is still an overstatement. But decades would be an
understatement for many of the objects we put into LEO.

From severity to probability, nearly everything on news or discussion sites
about Kessler Syndrome seems to be a severe misconception.

------
jalajc
Good attempt for discrediting a successful mission. The agressive title
couldn't be substantiated in entire article, ...and what about those 3 nations
that caused debris before, if so!

~~~
hutzlibu
"and what about those 3 nations that caused debris before, if so!"

They get no respect here for that either.

