
Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next? - jseliger
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-02/electric-bike-makers-woo-americans
======
URSpider94
The e-bike situation in China is very different from the US. These are people
who are moving UP from human-powered bikes, or walking, to their first vehicle
-- not buying them so that they can leave their car at home and feel the wind
in their hair. Here's a photo of a very typical Chinese e-bike:
[http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00zsrEyYQIYOqo/Chinese-
El...](http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00zsrEyYQIYOqo/Chinese-Electric-
Scooter-for-Men-and-Women.jpg)

As you can see, it has a second seat in the back for a passenger, and is built
much more like a very lightweight motorscooter than a bike. The batteries are
typically lead-acid, not lithium, so they are big and heavy, and probably
don't give all that much range. I'm curious how people charge and store these
vehicles, since most people in Chinese cities live in multi-story dwellings --
I guess they must lug the batteries upstairs with them at night?

The real reason these work in China is that in most of the cities I have been
in, they make up 30 to 40 percent of the traffic on the streets at any given
time, and so they become a force to be reckoned with in terms of traffic flow.
That makes a HUGE difference in terms of rider safety, especially when
compared with the US where drivers are often confused or surprised when they
encounter a single cyclist mixing it up with eight lanes of car traffic moving
along at 45 mph.

I think it's really admirable that China has been able to get a sizeable
fraction of the population riding these silent, lightweight e-bikes, instead
of polluting, noisy motorscooters or big, inefficient cars. However, I really
question whether this model would ever fly in the USA.

~~~
rakoo
Another _huge_ reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline
powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just
can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes.

Maybe one day we'll also see gasoline powered personal vehicles be banned in
the West ? I kind of doubt it, seeing how important the car is in our society,
even though there is some progress towards it (see for instance the car-free
days in Paris ([http://www.bbc.com/news/world-
europe-36243119](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36243119)), and I'm sure
in other places as well)

As always, more information on Wikipedia
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_C...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_China#Electric_bike_and_motorcycle_development_in_the_90s))

~~~
duaneb
This kind of ban only makes sense with dense electrical and infrastructure
penetration. Good luck convincing people in the country to give up four wheel
drive and switch to a vehicle where fuel cannot be stashed.

~~~
forrestthewoods
... because people in the country don't have electricity?

~~~
SerLava
...They have to drive farther.

------
rzt
Pretty serious MTB/cyclocross racer here that's done a lot of trailbuilding
and trail advocacy: a lot of dudes are scared that offroad ebikes are going to
kill access to hard-won trails. It's a not-unfounded fear as motorized bikes
are pretty dang close to motorcycles in most people's eyes.

That said, I'd love to have an ebike! I have a 26 mile one-way commute (that's
a 30 minute train ride) but every once in a while I ride my road bike in. I
arrive sweaty and have to clean up in the bathroom. Not ideal. If I had an
ebike, I could ride in assisted without sweating all over the place and then
on my commute home, turn the motor down and get a workout in.

~~~
websitescenes
Long time cyclist and bike shop owner here. I recently put an electric hub
motor on an old DH bike and have been riding local trails. I have to admit, I
did not expect the push back that I have received from cyclists. I get
trolled, called names and targeted all because I like to ride my ebike on the
trails. Funny thing is, nobody else seems to care. Only other cyclists.

~~~
tobltobs
Those other cyclists will be the ones who will loose access to the trails.
After two difficult decades of finding a balance between hikers and bikers on
the trails these new breed of trail ebiker destroy the hard found compromise.
As sooner as ebikes are forbidden on trails as better.

~~~
alrs
They're motorcycles, they are already forbidden.

~~~
tobltobs
In europe they are still allowed everywhere if they are constructed as a
pedelec with a top speed restriction.

~~~
digi_owl
25kmh with pedaling (you can go faster, but the engine will stop assisting at
that point) and 6kmh on just engine.

I keep seeing videos on /r/ebike and similar from USA where some yahoo has
ordered engine and battery from Ebay or China that can push the thing way into
motorcycle range.

~~~
masklinn
> 6kmh on just engine.

FWIW that makes it not a bicycle according to EN15194. EN15194 recommends a
bicycle classification for vehicles which

* only ever provide assistance

* below 25km/h (with progressive cutoff)

* with maximum continuous rated power of 250W

Anything beyond that is classified as a moped.

Though EN15194 is a recommandation, member states are free to follow it or
not.

------
doctorpangloss
eBikes are sincerely a great alternative to cars for me. I've been using an
electric bike (Stromer ST1) for about 3 years now in LA and Boston. It makes
perfect sense for these cities.

The total cost of ownership is way below a car, due to the low cost of Uber,
other people with cars, insurance and gas. In high traffic and hard parking
cities like LA and Boston, I get to my destination faster. And though a
bicycle is almost 7x as dangerous per mile ridden, I travel much less—maybe
1,000 miles a year instead of the 15,000 I did by car. While the weather is a
problem in Boston sometimes, some gloves and a warm coat tide it over well.
Besides, who wants to drive in a snowstorm? Overall, the experience holds up
to close scrutiny.

Conversely, I am pretty much subsidized by other people's vehicles. And in LA,
I nonetheless still owned a $1,000 Toyota with a $50/mo insurance and low
hundreds in parking tickets to keep it outside. While that ownership was only
a small part of time, it was necessary.

eBikes I think can really effectively complement ride sharing and car sharing.
It will save everyone money. And as more people adopt them, the danger of
biking will decline through changes in infrastructure like bike lanes and
lower speed limits.

Ironically, probably the least persuasive thing is pointing out how the
Chinese adopt eBikes. Americans don't want to emulate Chinese anything. It
needs to seem cool, organic, high class. Besides, a $3,500 eBike won't break
when you come to a fast stop the way a $500 eBike conversion will. Better to
keep it safe and expensive than mass manufactured and dangerous.

~~~
jean_claude
What's your source on the claim that bicycling is 7x more dangerous than
driving a car?

Most sources put it around 2.5x more dangerous than driving, and I'd wager
most of those deaths come from inexperienced riders who don't know the traffic
laws as applied to bicyclists.

Fatalities Per Mile

Motor Vehicle Travel.................... Bicycle Travel

42,000 killed........................... 813 killed

2.56 trillion miles..................... 21 billion miles

0.016 fatalities per million miles...... 0.039 fatalities per million miles

Data from Traffic Safety Facts 1997 and The Environmental Benefits of Cycling
and Walking

Pulled from
[http://www.bellboycott.com/cached/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages...](http://www.bellboycott.com/cached/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm)

~~~
nl
_Most sources put it around 2.5x more dangerous than driving, and I 'd wager
most of those deaths come from inexperienced riders who don't know the traffic
laws as applied to bicyclists._

Unsure about deaths, but it turns out that more experienced cyclists are
actually _more_ likely to be injured, even taking into account that
experienced cyclists generally ride more.

I can't find the paper now, but [1] shows a similar finding:

 _accidents were associated with.... cycling experience (curvilinear
association)_

[1]
[https://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=1356866](https://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=1356866)

~~~
jean_claude
That's interesting. Your comment jogged my memory on a study of how automobile
drivers act around bicyclists based on drivers' assumptions about the
appearance or perceived level of experience of the cyclist.

According to the research, overtaking vehicles drive closer to better equipped
cyclists (wearing a helmet, reflective vest...) than a woman with long hair
and no helmet.

Also, the bicyclist with protective gear might be more prone to engage in
risky behaviour. [http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-
true-h...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-helmets-
attract-cars-to-cyclists/)

"The implication," Walker says, "is that any protection helmets give is
canceled out by other mechanisms, such as riders possibly taking more risks
and/or changes in how other road users behave towards cyclists."

------
rckclmbr
I rode a manual bike for several years, and bought an e-bike about a month ago
for my 25-mile (round trip) commute. It's been amazing. I still get cardio
(albeit not as much), I don't have to change in my lycra, don't have to shower
when I get to work, and the commute is actually faster than driving (the 101
sucks). I'll still do the occasional ride on my old bike, but it's mostly
e-bike now.

~~~
kennell
What e-bike are you using?

~~~
rckclmbr
Stromer ST2

~~~
sk5t
Do these really sell for $6K+? I'd love to have an electric assist option for
my 30 mi round trip, but the cost is a tough pill to swallow... $3K I'd do in
a minute.

~~~
rckclmbr
Stromer ST1 is about that much. ST2 doesn't buy you much more tbh, it has a
GPS and theft protection, little bigger battery. $3k actually seems to be the
magic number where ebikes are good. Also, as others have said, building your
own is a cheaper option. At 30mi you would likely want to charge at work (I do
anyway, it's easier on the battery).

Also, FWIW, I was debating a second car (married w/kids) or the bike, and am
100% satisfied with my bike and the price I paid for it

------
totally
Daily (manual) biker here (~70 miles per week).

These ebikes are a clever hack. In China they skirt motorcycle laws. In the US
they can make use of bike paths. You can make good time and your commute is
generally the same duration regardless of traffic. At least, that's true in
Silicon Valley.

Last I checked (a few years ago) pedaling the ebikes is like pedaling a tank.
Batteries and motors a heavy bike make. So you're using the motor and there's
not a lot of cardio happening.

I ride my bike because I want to live longer/better. I don't think you get
that with these, but there's definitely a niche for them.

~~~
ams6110
If you're male, consider that long-term bike riding can cause infertility,
erectile dysfunction, and prostate problems esp. depending on the saddle you
use.

~~~
agumonkey
That's if he uses a saddle.

~~~
khedoros
What's the alternative? Standing on the pedals? Or are there other styles of
seat, not covered by the word "saddle"?

~~~
jean_claude
There are "noseless" saddles and saddles with a channel down the middle that
may help protect the sensitive bits. [http://www.thebirdwheel.com/noseless-
saddles-tested-updated](http://www.thebirdwheel.com/noseless-saddles-tested-
updated)

But my biased opinion is buy a recumbent! Fewer back, neck, and nether region
issues, plus, they have comfy seats! [http://www.bacchettabikes.com/recumbent-
bikes/](http://www.bacchettabikes.com/recumbent-bikes/)

VERY comfy seats!
[http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/scorpion_plus20/index_...](http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/scorpion_plus20/index_e.html)

A long wheelbase (crank behind the front wheel) and a more upright riding
position is perfect in city traffic. On my commuter, my eye level is about
even with drivers in crossover vehicles.

~~~
khedoros
OK, that's closer to what I thought. I was kind of thrown off by the previous
comment, which I read as implying "there are things besides 'saddles' that you
can use".

------
jawngee
I drive an electric motorbike/scooter in Saigon. It's bigger than the ones
this article is talking about; 6 batteries, 1800 watts, 80km/h top speed,
100km distance.

It's been great except for what it's doing to my electric bill and the fact
the batteries are lead acid. Hoping to convert to LiPo in a couple of months.

To charge it, I have to bring it in the elevator of my building which is fine
though it is the size of an actual gas motorbike and way heavier because of
the batteries.

~~~
ScottBurson
1800 watts isn't nearly enough to do 80km/h. Maybe 60km/h, tops.

Power goes as the cube of speed, so 80 takes more than 4 times as much power
as 60.

Of course, your speedometer could be lying to you.

~~~
jawngee
We tested it with a car and another motorbike.

It can only do that on a full charge and the bike shakes a bit too much for
comfort. But traffic in Saigon rarely goes above 30km/h anyways. When I have
free charge of the road, I average about 55km/h.

~~~
ScottBurson
My ebike maxes out around 1400W -- that's an actual measurement made with a
power meter -- and the fastest speed I've ever seen is 56km/h (and that was
with a tailwind). And this is with relatively fast tires (not racing tires,
but smooth road tires) and a big fairing!

Given the same tires and aerodynamics, the difference in top speed between
1400W and 1800W is the cube root of 1800/1400, or 1.087 -- you can go 8.7%
faster. That gets you to 61km/h. And I bet your aerodynamics and tires are
both worse than mine.

So something is out of whack here. My guess is it's a combination of things.
Most speedometers in cars read high, many by as much as 10%. So let's say you
were really doing 72km/h. Maybe with a full battery you're really getting
quite a bit more than 1800W. For my bike to do 72km/h would take at least
(72/56)^3 * 1400W = 2800W. It sounds a bit unlikely that you could really get
that much, but who knows, it depends on your controller and motor. (You'd
think they would have rated it higher, though, if it could really do that.) To
really get 80km/h would take over 3800W.

------
Spooky23
A: No.

Why?

1\. Hardcore cyclists are elitists in the US and will hate it and make life
miserable for the e-bikers.

2\. Non-cyclists will do dumb things in them like ride on the sidewalk.

3\. Many state laws require registration and plates for these things.

~~~
derekp7
1) That is changing, as the hard core cyclists begin to realize that more
bikes on the road period means more demand for proper cycling infrastructure
(or at least have roads that aren't bicycle hostile -- give me more than an
inch beyond the white line).

2) As it gets more popular, hopefully more education will happen. In many
cases, you have a seldom used sidewalk that runs for miles next to a bicycle
hostile road. Is that a sidewalk or a multi-use path?

3) State laws are catching up -- see the new classification system that
California passed (different regulations based on pedal assist vs. throttle,
max speed, power, etc). They seem to have struck a decent balance.

~~~
jessaustin
_Is that a sidewalk or a multi-use path?_

Is there a pedestrian present? If so, that's a sidewalk.

~~~
Spooky23
Unless marked as a multi-use path, it's a sidewalk.

~~~
jessaustin
Well sure I assumed that it's _actually_ a sidewalk, but there's no reason to
be authoritarian. If there really aren't any pedestrians around then cyclists
really aren't harming anyone. If one is cycling on the sidewalk and sees a
pedestrian, one simply hops off the bike and walks it until the pedestrian is
out of range.

~~~
Retric
Sidewalks are a lot more dangerous for bikes than you might think. The problem
is cars have expectations on how fast people approach and will often assume an
area is clear based on walking speed. Further even low speed collisions with
pedestrians can easily send a rider into traffic.

~~~
jessaustin
One might err in assumptions about what I think. Parent had " _seldom used
sidewalk that runs for miles next to a bicycle hostile road_ ". Obviously that
is different from a regular grid of streets, where _no one_ should cycle on
the sidewalk. As soon as crosswalks appear get your ass in the street. Even in
the situation the parent described, however, the presence of one pedestrian
makes it a sidewalk again so no cyclist will ride and no low speed collisions
will occur.

------
alvern
I ride 20 miles a day in Minneapolis on my e-bike.

My biggest fear is when we will ruin it for everyone. There just isn't the
proper infrastructure for them. Bike paths around here have 10mph speed limit
signs and are mostly mixed use. Not enough connecting roads have bike lanes.

It will grow wildly popular once a cheap US based lithium battery supplier
appears (Tesla/Panasonic).

~~~
URSpider94
Exactly, e-bikes are an odd tweener. They don't mix well on bike paths if
you're bombing along at 20 mph, and in a lot of places people still just don't
feel safe riding anything with two wheels on public roads.

I don't see a lot of people who aren't already comfortable cycling to work
(though maybe preferring to get there faster and with less sweat), going out
and buying an e-bike.

~~~
ghaff
That was one of the issues with Segways as well. A lot of people
(understandably) didn't want them on sidewalks. But they weren't really suited
for roads either.

~~~
chipsy
Likewise kick scooters. Fast and quiet enough to make pedestrians think "you
are like a bike and I should treat you like one," but in fact far too slow for
roads and unexpectedly agile on sidewalks.

Basically, all the vehicles that sit in the intermediate gradients of
speed/acceleration are in a position for their simple existence to offend
everyone else.

------
farnsworth
Tons of people rolling around Seattle on these long ebikes with some cargo and
a couple kids on the back. I love it! Although anecdotally, ebike riders are
much more likely to ride way too fast and pass dangerously close on trails.

------
yolesaber
Delivery guys use these all the time in NYC and I'm seeing more and more folks
riding on them, even fellas in bizness suits. I'd say they've arrived.

~~~
tln
When you consider e-bikes are illegal in NYC thats even more impressive

~~~
mapt
Yeah, laws about the lightweight end of the spectrum in powered transportation
came into being when we were talking about noisy, polluting two-strokes. They
make little sense in the context of lithium ion batteries and silent brushless
DC motors.

~~~
yaur
Having these things silently blasting down the sidewalk at 20+ mph is
incredibly dangerous.

~~~
mapt
People can bicycle at 20mph too using their legs. On paths and lanes where
these things are banned.

Common sense wattage restrictions (I have seen 1hp or 750W as a threshold, for
example, and apparently parts of Europe do 250W limits) are perfectly
feasible.

Apparently federal law on imports dictates that the class of 'low-speed
electric bicycles' is defined by a maximum of 750W and 20mph, which is a
surprisingly appropriate envelope - about as much as you'd want out of a
single-rider passenger bicycle with a heavy rider or cargo in a hilly city.

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Defined](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Defined)

* [http://www.alysion.org/ebiketours/power.html](http://www.alysion.org/ebiketours/power.html)

~~~
masklinn
> apparently parts of Europe do 250W limits

That's part of the EU recommendation for classification as an assisted bicycle
(pedelec) rather than an electric moped (e-bike): 250W maximum continuous
rated power, assistance-only (user must be pedalling for engine to engage) and
progressive cutoff _to_ 25km/h[0] (so the cutoff starts earlier, at 25km/h or
above there's no assistance)

[0] ~16mph

------
Pxtl
We see them frequently here in Hamilton, Ontario and it's quite unfortunate -
culturally, theyve ended up on the bottom rung of society. Idealists bike,
pragmatists drive, so e-bikes are the domain of drunks and the unemployable.

The perfect low-cost solution to traffic carbon emissions and we hate the
people who use it. Expect the same in USA.

------
jjcc
I believe e-bike (along with the quantity) is one of the secrete that
contributes to the huge eCommerce success in China.No media mention or notice
that yet. The cost of the last mile delivery makes a big difference, the
competition is flatten along with the whole China, the market is extremely
efficient.

------
rememberlenny
I lived in China, and I can say that ebikes is a cultural thing. The way that
people navigate, the average age of bikers who ride the ebikes, and the way
people navigate cities is not found in the US.

------
IIAOPSW
I'm an American living in China and I used to own one of these. Here are my
thoughts that I wrote down a while ago:

Why e-bikes are the next big thing

Like a car, they offer cheap on-demand transit to your exact destination.
Unlike a car they do not support long distances, heavy loads or more than 2
people, but often those features are not needed by the urban commuter.
Furthermore they lack many of the drawbacks of a car; getting stuck in
traffic, the need for parking, the need for insurance, licensing requirements,
high fuel requirements etc. Furthermore an e-bike is a signifigantly smaller
investment than a car. Having it lost, stolen or damaged poses less of a
personal risk to your finances. Unlike a classical bike, e-bike's do not
require the user to be in shape or even exert effort to operate. Thus we see
that in the personal transport market, e-bikes represent the best of both
worlds for the urban commuter. We can see proof by demonstration that in the
right conditions they can be enormously popular (China). Why haven't they
taken off all over the world yet?

1\. Topography. They are generally not powerful enough to go up steep hills.
Sadly this rules out San Fransisco which would otherwise be quick to pick up
on an eco-friendly trend.

2\. Weather. In the cold winter with icy roads these vehicles are unpleasant
to drive. A 40 km/hr wind chill on top of 0 degrees will make you sick. The
Chinese have invented a sort of bike apron/jacket that helps with this but
although it is an unfashionable solution. For this reason the bitter North
East and flat-but-frigid Mid West probably wont take to them (ruling out the
otherwise perfect market of New York).

3\. Regulation. These vehicles neither qualify as motorcycles nor bicycles and
thus are often ambiguous or de facto illegal in many parts of the states.

I think point 3 is a huge mistake. If the US is serious about green
technologies, deregulating e-bikes would be a huge boon.

Further thoughts: People initially think e-bikes are unsafe. That is because
of historisis. If e-bikes developed before cars then most traffic would be
e-bikes for the practical reasons cited. If most traffic were e-bikes then
they would be seen as enormously safe. In general they do not have the
momentum to seriously damage pedestrians or other e-bike users. It is actually
cars that are the dangerous vehicles. Furthermore if most traffic were e-bikes
then the throughput of a given road would go up because about 4 to 5 e-bikes
can easily drive in the same space currently used by a car. This effect is
partially canceled by the fact that e-bikes are slower than cars, but within a
city driving speeds are only about 30-50 km/hr anyway. The amount of parking
space available in the city would also go up for similar reasons.

------
wazoox
A friend of mine builds his own e-bikes and they're incredible. He made a very
stylish one, with big tires, that makes him meet lots of people who want to
know where to buy one :) He made another one with a suitcase-sized battery
pack and tremendous power (20kW) just for fun, but it's fugly with its big
boxy battery :) I should have taken pictures :)

------
simple10
Here's an interesting e-bike that recently launched on IndieGoGo and raised
$1.6M mostly in the US.

[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flux-electric-bikes-
with-...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flux-electric-bikes-with-
attitude/x/8982031)

~~~
driverdan
250W is on the low end. You'll notice the difference but it's not going to get
you up hills at 15mph+.

------
adamlett
They are also increasingly common in Copenhagen. Both regular style bikes and
three-wheeled cargo bikes.

~~~
xufi
Interesting. Besides the bike. I've read reports that Norway and Denmark want
to ban gas and diesel cars by 2025.
[http://www.renewablesinternational.net/will-norway-ban-
gas-d...](http://www.renewablesinternational.net/will-norway-ban-gas-diesel-
cars-by-2025/150/537/94287/) What do you think about this?

~~~
csours
I think you may see a rise in the number of "work" vehicles if the ban passes,
just like people in the UK buy "industrial" incandescent light bulbs.

I also think that a critical point, use will take off, and safety will go up.

I think that when someone rides a bike they become much more aware of
cyclists, so getting more people on bikes makes them safer from vehicle
drivers.

------
analog31
I'm a year-round bike commuter in the upper Midwest. I also use my bike(s) for
errands, recreation, etc., though I own a car for longer trips.

These days I'm seeing a growing number of e-bikes on paths that were designed
as bike infrastructure but are multi-use. My view is that they'll be OK so
long as the behavior of the riders doesn't get out of hand, which we'll find
out when the accident statistics start to pile up in bigger cities. For now
they're relatively few in number, and the riders tend to be quite courteous.

I'm supportive if it increases demand for bike infrastructure and awareness of
bike safety.

------
rdtsc
> Electrics “finally have legs to be able to take off in the U.S.,” because
> cyclists are feeling safer on the roads, battery and motor technology is
> improving, and retail prices are dropping, says Todd Grant, president of the
> National Bicycle Dealers Association.

I like the idea of bikes. I want to ride them on bike trails. But I wouldn't
ride it on the streets in suburbs, for example. It it just not worth the risk
to me. It would take considerable infrastructure rebuild, bike lanes, better
planned intersections, etc before I would consider riding a bike.

------
damian2000
In countries where the car is dominant, one of the most important factors is
safety. Cars can easily kill someone on a bike, scooter or motorbike just by
running into them from behind, e.g. if the bike is stopped at lights, and the
car driver is not paying attention behind them. In a car the most you'd get is
whiplash.

------
dzhiurgis
I like the idea of banning motorbikes, but it is probably impossible to ban
american-freedom-harley-wake-the-whole-neighborhood lifestyle in US.

IMHO ebikes are not less safe. You can manually pedal faster than most ebikes,
and just because their average moving speed is higher, that does not make them
intrinsically less safe.

------
intrasight
Make it expensive to own and park a car, and make it a challenge to drive it
in towns and cities, then absolutely ebikes will become popular in the USA.
But if the above is true, then regular bicycles will still be MUCH more
popular than ebikes - as they should be.

------
ck2
I loved my electric bike, especially when I went from heavy, slow SLA
batteries to an expensive LiFePo pack.

Then I got a car and got lazy and tired of the dangers of trying to travel
across town next to people texting on their smartphones in two ton SUVs

------
techthroway443
Wow. I would totally start biking to work if I had one of these. So cool

------
goldmouth
Does anybody know of a good, complete, ebike conversion kit for an older trek
mountain bike?

I have a 4.4 mile round trip commute but I don't really want to spend $1000+ ,
plus I'm pretty diy.

~~~
CompelTechnic
Mr Money Mustache recently posted a writeup for a conversion for _about_
$1000. I think you could do the same conversion for less if you source your
kit and battery cheaper- these same kits sell for less on ebay.

[http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/05/25/recipe-for-a-
badas...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/05/25/recipe-for-a-badass-diy-
electric-mountain-bike/)

~~~
fludlight
AliExpress (Alibaba for b2c) has a better selection and is generally cheaper
than ebay but shipping is literally the slow boat from China.

------
bambax
What's holding me back is what I read about batteries, how fragile they are
and how they self destruct if you don't keep them plugged in all the time. Is
this still true?

~~~
outworlder
Sort of.

Individual cells are usually fragile (as in, you can dent or puncture easily).
However, they are usually protected by their enclosure.

If you are talking about lithium cells, then you should not drain them
completely. Which means that they should be kept with some charge. But, unless
you intend to keep them stored away for months at a time (and maybe even then)
you should be fine.

There's also that fact that, when people think about batteries, they think
about laptop batteries. Those are optimized for power density above all else.
They are not the only type of cells available.

If you are worried about safety (and charging cycles), get a LiFePo battery
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery)).
This is the same kind usually found in electric vehicles and hybrids.

~~~
bambax
I'm not worried about safety, I'm worried about having to buy a new battery
every year (at a cost of >$500) because I would use an electric bike only 6
month a year at the most, and it would destroy itself during the time I'm not
using it, or if I forget to charge it for a week or two, etc.

~~~
Dylan16807
A lithium ion battery stored at half charge in a cool place should last
perfectly fine.

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Philipp__
I see more and more people in Belgrade too, which is weird. I am really
thinking about getting one. It could be healthy, fun and geeky.

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therobot24
Not quite the same, but before getting my license i had a small moped which
was a lot of fun. I wouldn't switch back to it though.

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artursapek
A lot of delivery boys use them here in NYC. I don't like riding among them
because they are quiet, and go faster than any man-powered bicycler can
conceivably go. They're kind of a hazard.

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Aelinsaar
There are very different safety implications when so many of the vehicles on
the road here wouldn't even notice when they creamed a biker.

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TelAviv_1
Everyone in Tel Aviv uses them--ordinary people use them to get to work. They
make a lot of sense, especially in places with good weather and bike lanes
(though there are many tricky places to ride bikes in Tel Aviv too because of
the traffic and motorcycles!)

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ronnier
Probably not. It's really safe to ride a bike in China anywhere at anytime.
Many cities in the US you'd be subjecting yourself to random beatings by
strangers.

