

Courtney Love does the math (2000) - ssp
http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2000/06/14/love

======
Tichy
One other thing this reminds me of: it is possibly to royally screw up your
life by simply signing the wrong contract. Seems to be very common, too.

I've had it happen, too (not life-screwing, but bad contracts): back in the
day a publisher sold my J2ME app and I decided I wanted royalty shares instead
of a fixed sum. The app sold 20000 times for 5€ each - I got 1000€. The thing
is, they didn't actually sell the app. They gave it to a TV company for almost
nothing in exchange for free advertising. So my royalties weren't a percentage
of 5€, they were a percentage of maybe 30 cents... For the publisher, it was a
way to promote themselves.

On the other hand, I see it relaxed: I had been toying with the idea of that
app for years, and only when the publisher got interested did I really kick
into gear and finish it. So at least I have to thank them for one
published/finished project. Also, who knows what the sales would have been
like without the TV advertising. And, I almost expected something to go wrong
the first time I did something like this, so I chalked it up as a learning
experience.

~~~
WalterBright
This kind of thing happens a lot. A favorite trick is to "bundle" your app
with some useless add-on, and then split the revenue between your app and the
add-on, halving your royalty. The way to get past that is to have a minimum
royalty per unit, and a minimum aggregate royalty per quarter.

~~~
Tichy
I was even vaguely aware of this possibility, but of course the publisher
refused to agree on a minimum royalty per unit. Somehow I still agreed on the
contract - engineers and negotiation... They actually mentioned the bundling
option as an argument, but it was supposed to be a long tail thing for later
on.

At least I insisted on having a fixed share (percentage) of the actual sale
price, because I had read before that it is common to have so much losses by
accounting that there is nothing left to have a share from. It didn't occur to
me that they would give away the app for free.

Of course it is almost impossible to disentangle: they could have given the
app away for free to some other company, but actually have some shares in that
company. Maybe I should have evaluated the value of the advertising they
received and demand a share of that.

------
jfb
A direct rip of Albini's much better "The Problem With Music" (1993 in MRR,
IIRC):

<http://www.negativland.com/albini.html>

~~~
wyclif
You beat me to it. However, to give Courtney Love her due I would simply add
that it's not really a direct rip. She was certainly influenced and inspired
by Steve Albini's rant, but she expanded upon it and added a lot of material.

------
Tyrannosaurs
It's getting worse. Record companies are beginning to add clauses into
contracts entitling them to a percentage of all future live performance
revenues. They won't just own the recordings, they'll own a share of every
time you play the songs.

------
agentultra
I started a business in my early twenties to address everything she mentioned
in this speech.

It failed.

If artists are slaves to the system, then it's a very good system. In my
experience there's still a strong Stockholm Syndrome between artists and "the
industry." Many young musicians still think they will sign a deal, get fronted
a million dollars, and go right on tour across the country. It's a real shame,
but I couldn't convince them to sign with a small company focused on
leveraging the Internet and file sharing.

I came close, but they all ended up wanting that "shot."

I still have ideas after some years about how to do it now... but it's a
matter of hearts and minds. The idea of the mythical "record label," is still
deeply ingrained in our culture. If you can convince the artists to go grass-
roots rather than over-night success then you might have something. If there
are any artists (or interested parties) reading, get in touch.

~~~
nerme
How much did you know about the industry? Did your company know any promoters
or booking agents? Could you get a band that signed up to do business with
your company an opening slot on a tour? Could you get them a write-up in a
music magazine? Did you know where to send them when they got kicked out of
their practice space?

See, that's the thing. Music isn't just distribution of content on the
Internet. There's a lot of other shit going on.

~~~
agentultra
I do know a lot about the industry. I was an audio engineer and session
musician at the time myself. I knew people and had lots of friends in various
places. That wasn't the problem.

I said "levaraging the Internet and file sharing." That's an intentionally
simplistic description of what I was up to. There was much more to it that I
just didn't feel the need to go into to make my point.

------
mitjak
Not to aim at the credibility or truthfulness of her words, but I'm rather
surprised Courtney was able to write something that long, let alone with such
proper grammatical and vocabulary choices. I thought she's always on crack.

EDIT: I just watched the video of herself getting another tattoo while smoking
and miming the lyrics to her new single "Skinny Little Bitch". I stand by my
words.

~~~
erikpukinskis
I'm continually amazed how many people think rock stars' stage personas are
their actual personalities.

What about Gretchen Carson: huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/09/jon-stewart-calls-
out-gre_n_385158.html ? Do you think she's dumb too?

The truth is the world can be incredibly hostile to smart people, and it's
particularly hostile to smart women... _particularly_ in show business. It's a
supremely smart woman with a very sharp, dark sense of satire who creates a
persona like courtney love in response to that hostility.

Also, I know you probably think your doubts come from her drug use, but i'm
pretty sure you only doubt her because she's a woman. Would you question Tom
Waits if he put out that article? Do you often question the authorship of
Salon articles? How carefully have you checked your sexism here?

~~~
slay2k
Meh. I don't consider myself sexist but I had a similar reaction as the author
of the comment you replied to.

This is the first time I've read something this profoundly insightful and
moving about the music industry, and Courtney Love is the last person I would
have expected to see as the author.

------
SeanLuke
This is HackerNews is it not? Land of VC opportunity?

Hunter S. Thompson was dead-right when he said "The music business is a cruel
and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run
free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." It seems to
me the jet-black reputation held by the music industry provides a business
opportunity for an enterprising person on HN.

It seems to me that the fundamental problem is that no one has set up a
distribution clearinghouse for artists which is paid for services rendered
rather than treating artists as work for hire.

Someone should set up a record company which provides services and maintains a
meticulously honest and above-board reputation:

1\. The Artist owns his own work.

2\. The Artist is presented with various options, none of which are permanent.
For example, he can enter into a limited-time exclusive distribution agreement
with the company in return for studio time to produce the work and a fixed
rate of return on proceeds. No advances are provided. If the artist has
produced the work himself, the amount of exclusive time may be decreased or
the return may be increased to compensate.

3\. The company does not require managers, lawyers, or engineers. However it
may make recommendations to the artist as to how to find good ones on his own.
If the artist wishes, the company can provide them for him, again for a cut of
the rate of return.

4\. The company also can also arrange for the artist to go on tour but again
does not require it: it's an option available. The artist has an up-front
negotiated rate on the proceeds.

5\. All contracts are simple, honest, temporary, modular, and cover exactly
and only the particular item the Artist is essentially purchasing from the
company (record distribution and studio time, touring, etc.).

Obviously the hairiest issue would be dealing with distribution firms. But
that particular business is changing very quickly, and indeed distributors may
be entirely gone in ten years. The time is ripe, gentlemen.

------
InfinityX0
Can someone explain, then, how the transient scale period happens where an
artist goes from not being able to eat to being worth 400 million dollars,
like 50 Cent? Is that when they suddenly become successful enough to create
demand -- that it creates some kind of wealth atom bomb? Or is it not that
simple?

~~~
nostromo
Endorsements. He made a big chunk of that from getting a share of Vitamin
Water when they were trying to appeal to more men. Ironically, he probably
made more from that than any of his records.

~~~
loewenskind
Ironically? Have you actually heard his "music"?

~~~
borism
no, I haven't heard it.

However what is "music" for you might be The Music for many other people.

~~~
loewenskind
Taste is subjective, sure. But he just talks. No emotion or interesting tempos
like other rappers. Even the music is like a 30 second sample repeated for 3
minutes. Painful to listen to.

------
devin
10 points just for mentioning David Foster Wallace.

Long read, but worth it... I don't have much comment -- it sounds pretty much
spot on.

------
retroafroman
This is spot on, and it is appalling that so little has changed in 10 years
since. Luckily, things are slowly changing.

------
docgnome
Maybe I'm a little confused but...

'Writing and recording "Hey Jude" is now the same thing as writing an English
textbook, writing standardized tests, translating a novel from one language to
another or making a map. These are the types of things addressed in the "work
for hire" act. And writing a standardized test is a work for hire. Not making
a record.'

In what way is this not a work for hire? (I mean legally it or this would not
be an issue) In what way is writing and recording a song some how magically
different from creating a map? Or writing some program? Not that I disagree
that Big Record is probably raking it in hand over fist while the content
creators receive a comparitivly small amount, but I fail to see why music
should be in it's own category separate from other works as she stated.

~~~
makmanalp
When you write a standardised test, you're working for the test company. When
you translate a novel, you're working for the publisher. When you write "Hey
Jude", you're working for yourself. You created the song by yourself, and it's
your song, and the record company is providing a service for you. The power
dynamic is backwards. They should be serving the artist, not the other way
round. If record companies go around hiring artists to make music for them, we
should fear for the quality of music.

~~~
electromagnetic
So what's the difference between a jingle writer, or a sound track artist, and
a 'musician'? They all write music, they all sell it to a company who makes a
greater profit off of it, why? Because they can't sell a jingle for nothing,
they can't make a sound track for a movie they don't own and own the music. So
why does a musician assume they're special in this industry?

No upstart artist can afford to make 2 million+ albums for a debut hit, so
they'd never sell 2 million albums and they could never be a hit, so they'd
never chart and never get the free advertising and air time that hits are
given, which means they wouldn't be getting the huge tours with stadium
concerts. Artists inevitably as a _performing artist_ make their money from
their live _performances_ , which the recording industry aims for. The more
fans at a concert mean more record sales, which means more money in the record
companies pocket, which means the artist gets more advertising, gets to charge
higher ticket fees and make more money from their touring.

Given that so many big artists have established their own labels, they must be
making their money _somewhere_. Although too many of them seem fully occupied
with boohoo crying that they're rich and famous, but not nearly as rich nor
famous as they deserve.

~~~
wikyd
A jingle writer or a sound track artist is basically creating something 'on
spec.' Also, you can bet that good jingle writers charge a lot more money than
bad jingle writers.

Recording artists (who incidentally are 'musicians', although some rather
loosely) contract with the label to promote and distribute their record. The
record company pays them an advance on future earnings as a way to sweeten the
deal to get the artist to sign with them instead of another label. They aren't
paying them to make the music, but rather just paying upfront some of the
money from the sales of the album.

Most artists do not make money off of album sales (even big-name artists).
They make money off of ticket sales, merchandise (e.g., t-shirts), and
licensing their songs for commercials, movies, etc. _After_ they have become
very successful, they are in a position with more power to negotiate better
contracts (I struggle not to say fairer). Or, sometimes they create their own
label and release their music themselves. Usually, though, when an artist has
their own label it's really a "vanity" label that is under the major label.

I think big artists (and little ones) have every right to complain about a
system where they can sell ~200mm albums and come out of the process bankrupt
(the article mentions TLC and Toni Braxton as examples of this). They created
~$2 billion of gross value and probably netted upwards of $1 billion for the
record label. The label certainly took a risk on them and should be
compensated for that, but shouldn't the artist as well? I'm not arguing that
the artist wasn't naive or poorly informed when signing the contract, but they
have every right to complain that the contract terms were onerous and others
should think carefully before negotiating. Even Apple re-negotiated their deal
with AT&T once they had a hit.

Also, you are completely wrong that no upstart artist can afford to sell 2+
million albums for a debut hit (I realize you say 'make', but contract terms
aren't changing because it suddenly became cheaper to sell albums digitally).
One example of the top of my head is the band Train. They created their first
album on their own for very little money and it was certified platinum. With
advances in recording software and digital distribution, record labels are
starting to look very obsolete. Especially when they charge you for the actual
expenses of their promotional campaigns out of your royalties.

------
jacquesm
A _much_ better piece about the same issues:

<http://www.janisian.com/reading/internet.php>

------
brc
It's interesting - but nobody saw anyone like Apple or MySpace coming along
and getting involved in it all. The future back in 2000 looked very fuzzy
indeed for all involved in music. They knew it as changing, but had no idea
how.

However, you'd have to bet against the record industry going forwards. They no
longer have an iron grip over the distribution, which was their great
monopoly.

~~~
dualboot
I think everyone pretty much saw that distribution was going to become
digital.

It was easier to steal music than buy it legally. That itch (instant
gratification) would be scratched sooner or later.

------
efsavage
The system is obviously flawed, but the example is not very convincing. $85k a
year to do what you love, for alot less hours than a regular job (it doesn't
take 2000 hours to make a record), whether the record is a dud or not? That
seems pretty good to me.

So give me 85k salary, a half million dollar budget to spend on production,
and tell me I need to make a website of my choosing sometime within the next
year, which you'll then spend potentially millions of dollars promoting. I
don't have much upside in this unless it's a mega-success, but I have no
downside and can choose to shoot for the stars or make something important and
useful. Is it me or does this sound like a far better deal than most
developers have?

Perhaps musicians should stop feeling that being able to sing or play is a
golden ticket and anything that blocks them from being a member of the idle
rich is the acme of economic injustice.

~~~
gwern
> $85k a year to do what you love, for alot less hours than a regular job (it
> doesn't take 2000 hours to make a record), whether the record is a dud or
> not?

If it takes that little time to make a good record, why aren't there artists
or bands churning out dozens of records a year? Surely they can't _all_ be
libertine sybarites.

> "It is known that Whistler when asked how long it took him to paint one of
> his 'nocturnes' answered: 'All of my life.'"

\--Jorge Luis Borges, "Gauchesque Poetry", <i>Discussion</i> (1932)

~~~
efsavage
I'd guess that there are strongly diminishing returns on putting out albums
frequently. And who said anything about good?

By Borges' logic, the hibernate mapping file I just wrote took me "my whole
career" to write.

~~~
gwern
Borges then goes on to point out exactly that; but his philosophical point, as
valid as it was, is not the point of interest in this discussion.

