

Ask YC:  Anyone actually making money selling ebooks/digital goods? - iamelgringo

So, this article seems to have gotten traction on HN:  http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516215<p>It's not a new idea.  Tim Ferris has been preaching that since the Four Hour Work Week was published, and affiliate marketing programs are  clearing houses for people doing this sort of thing.<p>Is anyone on HN doing this, or have you done it in the past.  I'd love to hear some anecdotes from this community.
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lionheart
I do this. I have been since about 2004. I don't make eBooks though. I'm a
programmer so I make software, usually things to help with web-design, and
then sell it using a similar site format.

Its been my sole source of income, and its not a bad living, although I
personally know people who are making $1-$10 million a year in profit from
sites like this.

They're not one-man shops though, they usually have about 5-10 employees to
help run everything, but its still very profitable. Digital goods cost pretty
much $0 to copy and distribute, so the profit margins are amazing.

It really amazes me how a lot of people, especially in a community as open-
minded as this, are quick to label everybody who has a strange-looking site a
scammer. I use the salesletter format for most of my sites, and it works. I
don't care what it looks like as long as it gets results.

As for the Parrot guy, I know nothing about him so I have no idea if he really
does ignore refund requests. I use <http://www.clickbank.com/> as my payment
processor, and they handle all that. They honor all refund requests, with or
without an explanation, so I couldn't even deny one if I wanted to.

I'd be happy to answer any questions anybody has about this market. It's
basically an evolution of the direct mail market from before the Internet. Its
looks a little strange to the Web 2.0 people here, but its a valid market.

~~~
bprater
I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling digital products since '97.
It really works.

However, the challenge for folks new to the game -- is NOT the product.
Product is simple.

Repeat after me: don't worry about the damn product, worry about the
salesletter.

It is that salesletter that separates the winners and lowers.

Often, it takes me longer to write the salesletter than it takes me to create
the product.

I jest not.

And that's why we are all discussing the parrot's salesletter.

I've seen many folk stumble because they can't twist their brain to write good
long-form salesletters.

If you want to win at this game, print out dozens of these letters, get out
your pencil and highlighter and study them like your life depends on it.

Follow this simple step and I promise you can make money in the info-product
game.

Most of you won't follow that simple step, will go out and create "the most
amazing product ever", crank out a lame salesletter and won't make a nickel.

Seen it over and over and over and over.

And then you'll poo-poo info-product marketing the rest of your days.

(Notice how you are more apt to read a post when it's short paragraphs? That's
just one "hacking for humans" technique we use.)

~~~
eli_s
It's really weird that you say "you are more apt to read a post when it's
short paragraphs". I was actually annoyed by the short paragraphs as I was
reading and ended up skipping to the end.

~~~
ahoyhere
You'll never succeed at selling if you can't recognize that the world is full
of people almost entirely unlike yourself.

------
callmeed
A little over a year ago, we created a DVD and companion ebook on the topic of
SEO for photographers. We serve that niche market and were finding that most
photographers a) had Flash sites and b) had no clue how to get on Google at
all–let alone rank well. We were doing service work for people and they were
lining up faster than we could help them. So, we decided to sell the info.

I decided to do a DVD because I wanted to include a lot of screencasts. The
companion PDF is more of a checklist/workbook. We did a 1,000 DVD run at
DiskMakers and also let people access it online.

We're pretty much sold out of the initial run of DVDs (I have a few left in my
closet) and we've sold the online version to a lot of overseas photographers
who didn't want to wait for it to ship. We charged $79 for the DVD so you can
do the math there. <http://www.photographyseo.com>.

One thing I want to emphasize is that we did absolutely no marketing other
than linking to it on our main website and blog. No AdWords or other online
campaigns. If I had tried hard, I imagine we could have sold 2 or 3 times the
amount we have by now.

I'm considering doing a revised version that is an online/ebook version
only–or possibly doing a version that has a slightly broader audience ("SEO
for wedding vendors" for example).

If anyone wants to see the PDF or browse the videos, drop me an email.

~~~
sqs
How long did the DVD take to create?

~~~
callmeed
About a week of planning/writing and 2 weeks of recording screencasts ... all
side/extra time, though

------
paraschopra
I will tell you my story. A few months ago, I got all excited about these
ebooks and all. So, I picked up a topic I could write an ebook on 'How to
Start An Online Business' <http://paraschopra.com/business/>

First I tried launching it as a premium ebook, priced at $65 with some 6-7
pages long copy (see the source code of the page, the long copy is still
there)

I didn't sell even a single copy. (Though I must admit, the traffic was really
low, not even 5-6 visitors per day as I didn't do Adwords)

Then I dropped the price to $5, and did a short copy of the sales letter.
Still nothing happened.

Now I am offering the ebook as free download and I get 2-3 downloads per day
thanks to Google First Page Result for the term 'How to Start an Online
Business'. Nothing sells like free stuff!

Maybe it was the ebook or maybe it was the sales letter or maybe it was both,
but the fact is that I didn't sell even a single copy. With stories of an
ebook making a million, there are a million (untold) stories of ebooks making
zero.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
I'm no expert, so take this with a grain of salt:

1\. Find a niche. "Start an online business" is not a niche.

2\. Try affiliate programs and SEM to drive targeted traffic. These work best
in a smaller niche (see #1)

3\. You've got a lot of links on your page that take people _away_ from the
page, which drives down conversion, which drives up your cost per conversion,
which hurts your ability to do #2

4\. You're selling the steak, not the sizzle. Why do I want to start an online
business? What's my core goal? What problem does your book solve?

5\. A "huge list of resources" sounds like a lot of work. Google provides me
with millions of links on this subject for free. What's valuable to me is that
someone has culled those millions of links down to just what I _really_ need
to know, not 11,000 links that I then have to pick through.

There are other issues, but fixing those would be a big step in the right
direction.

------
izak30
Personally, I don't. I've worked very closely with someone who does (managing
their campaigns and websites)

Here's what I know.

Pick a niche, be an expert, outsource everything but the content creation, and
spend your efforts selling.

Pick a payment gateway that handles charge back procedures well, even if you
can get it cheaper somewhere else (use paypal)

Price Higher than you think it's worth.

I've seen some really incredible results. Lots of money being made here.
People do buy this sort of stuff, but I think that most of us at HN...don't;
which is why it seems foreign.

------
menloparkbum
I sell software, digital images, digital videos and digital audio files. Do
they count as digital goods?

~~~
russell
Could you (and others) elaborate a little more? Are you a reseller for for a
large number of titles? Are you a generic site or a very focused topic
specific site(s)? Are your materials self produced or exclusive?

I am interested because I am looking for different monetization models for my
GF who is a fine art painter and photographer.

~~~
menloparkbum
I plan on writing up some thoughts about this in a series of blog posts over
the summer. However, maybe I should make it a paid e-book? I kid, I kid...
maybe.

------
TY
Have a look here - there is a whole interview with the CEO of ClickBank (the
company that specializes) on this subject that might be useful to you:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516821>

The value of services such as ClickBank is that they provide you access to a
large established affiliate network - something that is very hard to build
yourself...

------
fatbat
Where do these people get the testimonials? Are they even real or is it
another Betty Crocker?

I would think that faking a testimonial is a snake oil salesman tactic.

~~~
izak30
Testimonials are mostly real (from what I know), exchange free copies for
testimonials (and use the good ones); use 'personal' testimonials over again,
rather than 'product specific' testimonials. Those are just a couple tricks.

------
steveplace
I'm actually releasing one in 1.5 weeks, so we'll see how it goes.

I've also done affiliate marketing and that's done well also.

 _But_ I view this as means to cash rather than means to a true business. More
like a springboard, I suppose.

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idont
(On my classified website) I only see scammers active in MLM who are making
money with ebooks... ;) Sad...

The perception of ebook is pretty negative (low quality)... Amazon will
improve this perception I hope...

~~~
russell
Could you elaborate? I know people here are looking for positive models, but
advice on how to avoid the perception of being a scam could be useful.

------
ahoyhere
Just like everything else, it can work, but most people don't put the
requisite effort into it to make it work. That means research and
understanding people / the market first.

------
shaqir
Guys what do you think of Carbon Copy Pro

