
Hajnal line - yasp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
======
woodpanel
I don't want to nitpick, but the drawing is a bit off:

The line as it is drawn excludes Venice and Vienna. Correcting that line to
actually overlap with St. Petersburg and Trieste gets these epicenters of
European culture back "inside".

------
nyolfen
this recent paper is related:

[https://psyarxiv.com/d6qhu/](https://psyarxiv.com/d6qhu/)

The Origins of WEIRD Psychology

> Recent research not only confirms the existence of substantial psychological
> variation around the globe but also highlights the peculiarity of
> populations that are Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic
> (WEIRD). We propose that much of this variation arose as people
> psychologically adapted to differing kin-based institutions—the set of
> social norms governing descent, marriage, residence and related domains. We
> further propose that part of the variation in these institutions arose
> historically from the Catholic Church’s marriage and family policies, which
> contributed to the dissolution of Europe’s traditional kin-based
> institutions, leading eventually to the predominance of nuclear families and
> impersonal institutions. By combining data on 20 psychological outcomes with
> historical measures of both kinship and Church exposure, we find support for
> these ideas in a comprehensive array of analyses across countries, among
> European regions and between individuals with different cultural
> backgrounds.

------
lewis500
Is this still true? I’ve read some eastern euoprean countries are suffering
from very low birth rates.

Also interesting the US seems to have a sort of fertility zone right down the
middle
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/84g2n5/states_and_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/84g2n5/states_and_territories_by_fertility_rate_in_the/)

------
trhway
the stretch of the line along the east baltic i see as a result of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_Teutonic_Order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_Teutonic_Order)
. The Teutonic Order east conquest set up a lot of history there that is still
being played out almost 800 years later.

~~~
woodpanel
It would be interesting to know if footprints of past conquests/empires are
the reason for the line not correlating with today's borders. At least the two
pockets on the south Iberian Peninsula and as well the southern Apennine
Peninsula correlate with former Islamic Caliphates.

I wonder though why Ireland, Austria and Venice would be outside. In some
respects all of them played central roles in European history (Ireland in
Christianization).

EDIT: Just figured out, the drawing is off. If drawn correctly it would
include Vienna and Venice.

------
gpvos
The article links to the article on the Western European marriage pattern,
which gives as a major explanation the marriage rules instituted by the Roman
Catholic church. But weirdly enough, the areas in Western Europe where the
pattern does not hold (southern Spain and Italy, Ireland) are deeply Roman
Catholic. Does anyone have an explanation for that?

~~~
woodpanel
Maybe former Islamic Caliphates.

But if Catholicism plays a role:

a) why is Ireland outside?

b) why is the Non-Catholic part inside?

------
enriquto
The drawing makes no sense... there's a triple point in the blue boundary, so
there are at least three regions, not two. But the article talks about "two
sides".

~~~
dan-robertson
The Hajnal line is in Red. The blue lines highlight other regions, as
described in the caption of the image.

~~~
curtis
I was confused by the diagram as well. And it's only after reading your
comment that I discovered there were lines of two different colors!

