
Why a ‘paperless world’ still hasn’t happened - charlysl
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/29/american-reams-why-the-paperless-world-hasnt-happened
======
whack
Anyone who thinks the world hasn't gone paperless, really needs to recall how
it used to be in the 80s and 90s.

\- We don't send physical letters in envelopes anymore, we send emails.

\- We don't send documents via fax or courier, we send them digitally.

\- We don't apply for jobs by mailing in resumes, we apply online.

\- We don't file taxes or other applications using snail mail, we send them
online.

\- We don't receive statements and invoices in our mailbox, we get them in our
inbox.

\- We don't send photocopies, we send pictures.

\- We don't use checks or even currency notes, we use credit cards.

\- We don't read physical newspapers, we read articles online via HN.

\- We don't read physical books, we read e-books.

Yes yes, I know people still do some of the above things. But the quantity of
paper-use for the above has fallen precipitously, and it's falling even
further everyday.

I still use pen-and-paper occasionally to sketch out my thoughts in an
unstructured way, and I do like sending letters as a gesture of my extended
effort. But for any kind of business dealing or inter-person interaction,
paper is on life-support, and is going to be DOA in another decade or two. And
everytime I think of paper statements and requests for photocopies to be
mailed in, all I can say is good riddance.

~~~
closeparen
Why would anyone e-file their taxes? It's at least $25 for the most basic
e-filing software, or 49 cents to drop in the mail.

~~~
nickonline
There are more countries than America.

I do it each year for free.

~~~
rimliu
Yup. There you do it in your browser, which is free.

------
vinceguidry
It's quite simple. Paper is a near-perfect technology. What replaces it has to
be similarly perfect. When people look at what replaces paper, they think
screens. Screens are pretty-near perfect too. But screens are not what replace
paper. Files are. Screens merely display information, files store it.

And file storage and manipulation is still in the Stone Age. It's about as far
from perfect as any technology can be. To kill paper you have to make it
perfectly easy for people to design applications without it. Because it's
already perfectly easy to design applications and systems that use paper.

We have to fix software development before we can truly kill paper.

~~~
BjoernKW
While paper used to be the near-perfect technology for storing and
distributing non-ephemeral information nowadays this has been turned on its
head to the extent that using paper for these purposes has become downright
detrimental:

Information stored on paper in some filing cabinet in some office for all
practical purposes simply doesn't exist. It can't be easily searched,
retrieved or accessed by someone who's not in the same room and doesn't
exactly know what he's looking for. In other words: That information is lost.

Old habits unfortunately die hard, which is why people still seem to be
thinking that storing non-ephemeral information or knowledge on paper is a
good idea.

~~~
vinceguidry
Information locked away on some local user's desktop also doesn't exist. If
information isn't stored on a dedicated application-specific storage system
staffed with people skilled in it's use and repair, then it's the exact same
thing.

We can't just take information and dump it on a block storage device. It needs
proper archival. This is the same with paper, only if you lose the key to your
file cabinet or the drawers stop sliding so easily, you can still get at the
information.

If your RAID backplane dies and you don't know how to fix it, you're in for a
bad day.

There is a skillset you can learn to work with paper more efficiently. But
most people can muddle through without those skills. Not so with digital.

~~~
jamesjyu
I was recently researching some of things archivists have to do, and the
general consensus is that their skills are needed _even more_ in the digital
age, not less, because it introduces a whole host of new problems: files that
fork, forgeries, losing the ability to read old file formats, etc.

There was also a project by MoMA (I can't find the original article), where
they had to get a whole team together to create formats that will ensure
survival in the future by doing things like including the instructions to view
the format in a readable way.

~~~
reaperducer
Reminds me of a quote from the early days of the internet. It went something
like "The internet is like a library with every book in the world. But all the
books are on the floor."

------
TipVFL
It's kinda funny, I worked for years as an artist and never used paper and
then I became a programmer and I'm drowning in paper. I use post-it notes,
notebooks, and loose sheets of paper to track progress, work through concepts,
sketch layouts, etc...

I'm not sure what it would take to replace that. Working on paper allows me to
disconnect from the digital world and concentrate on logic, it also allows me
to organize my information physically.

Maybe a very advanced augmented reality system could offer me everything there
plus the ability to hang my post-it notes in mid-air. I'd give that a whirl.

~~~
askafriend
If you've tried the new iPad Pro with Apple Pencil then you'll have your
answer. It's fantastic for sketching and taking notes - the new display
eliminates all lag between the stylus and the screen.

It is an expensive solution for sure, but as that kind of technology becomes
cheaper, the use case you describe for paper will be reduced as well.

~~~
TipVFL
It wouldn't really replicate my multiple notebooks scattered precisely across
my table, unless I had like 5 ipads. Also, not really a fan of Apple's mobile
ux, so it's not the solution for me.

I have managed to get rid of some paper usage by having multiple dry erase
boards of various sizes. One digital solution I have considered is something
like the boogie board. If you're not familiar, it's basically a 10 inch
digital whiteboard that can save the screen to an image and costs around $20.
That's cheap enough I could have a pile of them and mostly replicate my
current process.

~~~
askafriend
iPad UX has changed a lot with iOS 11, I think you’d be surprised at how
easily you can switch between notebooks on an iPad or have them side by side.
One thing I would suggest is to go to the Apple Store, buy the 10.5” iPad Pro
and try it out for 2 weeks with an app called Notability and then return it
before 14 days is up if you dislike it. They have a great no-questions-asked
return policy at the Apple store. If you end up liking it, you can look for a
used model if the new one is too expensive for your tastes.

I think it’s a better long term solution than the boogie boards because it has
handwriting recognition and it’s seamless + synced to the cloud without you
doing anything. Also, the 120hz refresh rate on the new displays make it
behave closer to the physical experience than on past displays where there was
a short lag between your stroke and the stroke appearing on screen.

The boogie board is also a great solution if most of your notebooks are meant
to be throwaway scratchpads. It might be a better solution than iPad if you
don’t intend on keeping the stuff you sketch out. Plus it’s cheaper like you
said.

All I’m saying is that it’s something worth trying out at the very least since
you can try it with no cost. It’s been working very well for me.

------
TheAceOfHearts
Paper is high-tech. We tend to look down on certain technologies just because
they're older, but paper and paperless both have pros and cons.

There's a chasm of complexity between paper and its alternatives. In addition,
we already have tons of experience using paper, along with the knowledge of
how it should be handled and preserved.

I suspect that much data will be lost due to bit rot, proprietary formats,
legacy adapters, DRM, etc. AFAIK, we're still figuring out how long data can
be safely stored in many of these newer mediums.

IMO, it's highly desirable to have both options available. I don't really want
everything I do passing through computers over which I have no control.

------
tyingq
Part of it might be generational. I'm older. Any time I'm in a meeting with a
presentation, I print it out and make margin notes while the discussion
happens.

This really increases my recall and understanding of what was discussed. I've
tried digital equivalents of this and it just doesn't work the same for me.

I have noticed that this type of thing is more prevalent with people in my age
group (40+). Writing things down, even if you throw it away right afterwards,
seems to increase recall more than typing it.

~~~
scroot
> Writing things down, even if you throw it away right afterwards, seems to
> increase recall more than typing it.

Your intuition here is spot on and backed up by actual research:

[https://www.npr.org/2016/04/17/474525392/attention-
students-...](https://www.npr.org/2016/04/17/474525392/attention-students-put-
your-laptops-away)

------
charlysl
TLDR: sales decrease in paper for printing & writing more than being offset by
Amazon effect (packaging; food and drink too) & tissue.

------
cube
On a side note, I am still looking for a simple solution for paper to
archivable, searchable PDFs. The tools coming with my printer/scanner are
horrible.

Something without the need to compile a million dependencies and setting up a
DBMS.

Ideal process would be: scan to folder, tool runs cleanup and OCR, creates
searchable PDF (perhaps with a nice file name) moves to archive folder, done.

Ideas would be more than welcome :)

~~~
jansho
Now this is a startup that I would totally be evangelist for.

------
ashark
See also: attempts to replace whiteboards/blackboards.

~~~
pavel_lishin
We bought some Cisco whiteboard thing at work. Great! Collaborative
whiteboarding with our team in Austin.

Guess what _one fucking feature_ it didn't have?

That's right! You couldn't just dial another whiteboard on the network and
start immediately drawing together with another person.

(Ironically, when I tried to demonstrate this issue to one of our IT folks,
the damn smartboard refused to start right up because it needed to install a
firmware upgrade - that provided this functionality.)

------
thaumaturgy
I'm glad the article mentioned ReMarkable. Mine arrived about a month ago and
I love it -- carry it everywhere now. It's done a great job of taking care of
my need for scratch paper to jot notes on, and it's really kind of an
improvement over keeping track of lots of bits of paper or having a separate
notebook.

It's so far the best of both worlds of paper and electronics.

Bit pricey though.

[https://remarkable.com/](https://remarkable.com/)

(I haven't been paid, reimbursed, or otherwise incentivized for this in any
way, except that I think it's cool and I want it to be successful.)

------
thisacctforreal
What do you intend to replace it with? PDFs?

If there's to be a universal "digital paper", it would need a lot of planning
and agreement. With the amount of churn of stuff in technology these days I
don't see anything stable enough to "replace paper" anytime soon.

Thinking about this problem reminds me of the transition from linotype
machines at the New York Times, to fully computerised systems in 1978.

The computer systems are shown at the end of the wonderful documentary
'Farewell, Etaoin Shrdlu'
[https://vimeo.com/127605643#t=24m55s](https://vimeo.com/127605643#t=24m55s)

The amount of thought and preparation put into those systems, and the thought
and preparation put into the change from ink-and-metal to pixels-and-bytes
seems remarkable. Perhaps the (lack of) co-ordination between hardware and
software today is to blame? Many industries have their IT problems handled
with software-only solutions, generally with little thought for what the
solution will look like 10--or even 5--years down the road.

I would love to hear from people in industries like medical software, and
flight software; where thought and preparation is--hopefully--given some
budget and priority.

------
cmurf
I blame the lack of good open source tools for creating and verifying signed
PDF (or an alternative format).

Faxes are deeply misunderstood, I still occasionally have vendors and clients
say "we need an original" or "we need a signature" or some other brain
damaging excuse. And these aren't companies in the sticks that don't know it's
2018, these are large (legacy) companies in big cities.

------
maxxxxx
When I look at banks they incentivize you to go back to paper. I signed up for
paperless for a while only to realize that they allow you to retrieve online
statements only for the last 2 years. If you have a business and need to be
ready for an audit, you are better off with paper statements.

------
basicplus2
Why I don't go Paperless..

1\. Only My paper bank statements posted to me are correct.

My bank statements printed off from the internet and replacement ones posted
out are incorrect.

The interest income earned is only shown on the correct dates on the original
paper copies posted out, all the others the interest dates are shown in the
incorrect month and thus don't match up what should be shown in my income tax
return and don't agree with the interest summary by the bank.

2\. Only my original posted Credit card statements are guaranteed correct.

I have had changes made by the bank IN PREVIOUS FINANCIAL YEARS!!!! on the
online versions of my statements, such as changes to amounts paid!!!!

Without the original paper copies I could never argue my case.

------
kazinator
A "pay per less" world has happened; each year you pay the same, but get less.

------
t1o5
Whenever I fill up PDFs for my work visa to the US, I saw paperwork reduction
act or something written on the PDFs. I thought it was to reduce paper usage
or was it paperwork ?. But in the end, there is always a pile of paper. I
would say in the last mile of the process paper is used. I applied for
Canadian immigration fully online. But in the end they asked "signed certified
photocopies", statements, declarations, consents, affidavits everything in
paper with notary's ink seal and sign.

Maybe the laws has to change too. Many laws & processes still needs ink seal
and signatures. A digital signature or a digital photo is not enough.

------
unangst
Analog will always be practical.

------
mentos
If we could snap our fingers and have ultra thin flexible paperwhite lcd
sheets how would they be best put to use?

I could see binding 100 of them together that you could 'flash' to create a
true e-book

~~~
crooked-v
Star Trek comes to mind for me. PADDs, though (ironically enough) bulkier and
clunkier than any real-world tablet device today, are treated as basically
disposable. Characters are usually shown with one at a time, but it's implied
they can get as many as they want, with a few scenes where a character has
five or six PADDs laid out to compare different texts in a physical way
despite them (presumably) all accessing the same data source.

------
ArchD
Paper seems to have greater weight in court than electronic records, so people
keep everything on paper in case they need to show documents in court one day.

------
spondyl
Could you imagine how much wasted paper comes out of a supermarket in the form
of receipts? Most are printed by default then discarded.

I reckon at least 10 garbage bags worth of paper a day at least from one store
alone. Maybe I'll run some quick numbers later on.

Paperless in that case would be gold. Just email my receipts so I can archive
'em because I'll only ever need them in the future, not the present.

------
robbrown451
If it were up to me I'd shut down the postal service. Everything I get in the
mail could come digitally (such as bills), not at all (freaking junk mail), or
via Fed Ex/UPS/Joe's Courier Service (anything someone really, really thinks I
need to have physically and wants to pay for).

I hate dealing with paper. I especially hate it when it is redundant. Hate it
with a passion.

------
post_break
I just want fax to go away.

~~~
tehlike
What did you use it for last time?

~~~
jseliger
In healthcare, all the time: [https://www.vox.com/health-
care/2017/10/30/16228054/american...](https://www.vox.com/health-
care/2017/10/30/16228054/american-medical-system-fax-machines-why) . Faxes
help impede competition and raise provider profits.

~~~
notlikethis1994
Our healthcare industry seems to be unwilling to leave the 20th century.

~~~
tehlike
The only aspect that left 20th century is the cost of it.

------
pasbesoin
As both an interface (including actively functional, not just passive, e.g.
mark-up) and a data store, it still has advantages.

Of itself, and in the way we function, cognitively (e.g. spacial orientation).

P.S. Thank god they still haven't managed to make it blink at me. Harry Potter
and his animated pictures, be damned! ;-)

------
htkibar
When new mediums appear, usually they don't get rid of the previous ones but
coexist with them. Besides, paper is really good at some things, changing it
just because it is more techy is not something valuable to anyone.

------
pacifika
The aim is not to get rid of paper but to use the best tool for the job. So
paper still is the best tool but for less and less jobs. We won’t ever need to
get rid of paper though.

------
known
I've noticed eGovernance increases paper usage

------
throw6555
Majority of paper is used as toilet paper while rest of the paper usage is
being slowly replaced by digital means. So stop using toilet paper. Use
bidets. Having diarrhoea equals many trees ! As long as there is demand for
toilet paper, there won't be a paperless world. Western world will find this
difficult to admit this, but any counter arguments are welcome.

------
mmcnl
My world has been (near) paperless for almost a decade. Perhaps I'm special?

