

Electric Velomobiles: fast, comfortable, and more efficient than cars - maurits
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/electric-velomobiles.html

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awjr
So from what I gather and the various photos in the article, you are put into
a 'low slung' vehicle weighing only 35kg and drive along with other road users
in their 1-2000kg vehicles. Sounds fun. I give you two weeks on a highway.

My daily commute (3km by bicycle) includes 100m of main road (and optionally
an amazing two tunnels (<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltsADGmrjVQ>). The
rest is a shared use path. I now take the lane on this section because so many
cars/vans have tried to pass me dangerously. I was seriously thinking of
buying a head cam.

If you really want to make a change and get people out of cars you need to
make the infrastructure you provide safe enough for a 10 year old to cycle it.
This means not putting different types of transport in conflict. Have
segregated car/cycle/pedestrian lanes. Prioritise cycling over all other forms
of transport. Recognise it as a transport 'service' and make it core to
government transport policy.

This stuff is beginning to happen in the UK. (See London.) Studies are showing
the massive benefits to a city (financially) putting in segregated cycling
lanes and the long term benefits these bring to companies (cyclists don't have
as many days sick). There are also the obvious health benefits.

The problem with America is that it loves the car (as does the UK) and is only
just beginning to wake up to the fact that converting your city into a massive
parking lot just doesn't work and is socially/financially a bad thing.

So make it safe enough for a 10 year old to use, design out conflict (seperate
out cars/cycles/pedestrians) and put cycling as a priority above everything
else. Do not give me a 35kg vehicle where I am forced to queue with all the
rest of the cars.

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bryanlarsen
I mostly agree with you about segregated infrastructure. But something going
over 50KM/h belongs on the highway with cars and not in the bicycle lane.

Sure, it's dangerous, but how much worse is a velomobile with a flag than a
motorcycle or scooter? Lots of people drive those. (And lots of people die on
them too...)

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SoftwareMaven
Much, much worse.

First, my head is typically above the level of cars on my motorcycle and can
easily see, with peripheral vision, around 300 degrees, meaning I can have a
broader view of what's happening. Situational awareness is critical to staying
alive around cages...err...cars.

Second, my cross-section for a car next to me is much thicker than a flag. It
is at least the depth of my body and the depth of my fairing.

Finally, a flick of the wrist puts me far in front of the idiot trying to kill
me. Acceleration is a crucial tool to staying alive on the streets around
cars.

All of those are impacted by a velomobile. It's unfortunate, too, because I'd
love to ride on.

~~~
Someone
On the other hand, on a motorcycle your head hits that car/wall first. On a
velomobile, your feet do.

Also, the protection may be flimsy relative to that of a car, but it probably
is a lot better than that of a motorcycle, for instance if you flip over and
slide over the Tarmac for a few meters.

Your concerns are valid, though. The best way to cater for them probably is
through a culture change. Having separate bike paths _and_ car drivers who are
always on the lookout for cyclists because they always are there (example:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlQYP4WN-5w) will help a lot.

And no, fast bikes need not go on the highway; they just need a fairly wide
and straight flat surface (example:
[http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/03/14/f35-high-
speed-...](http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/03/14/f35-high-speed-cycle-
route-twente/))

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yread
Unfortunately they cost close to a car ~5000 euros. Here is a couple of links
related to bicycles like that

<http://www.dutchbikes.nl/pagina/links.htm>

I've met them on the street a couple of times and while they are really fast,
I would be worried about the safety - you're really low - you don't see much
from there and what's worse you're almost invisible behind a line of parked
cars. Some of them have a pole with a little flag for this reason.

~~~
tga
I keep coming across velomobiles and they are slick and all, but I would find
it hard to justify the price when, as a casual user, all you get over a good
€1000 bike is some protection from the elements, while also losing a lot of
mobility and parking convenience.

I would rather like to see (recumbent) bikes with a cheap nylon-like soft
cover against the wind and rain, that would probably shave a lot of the cost
going into the body.

~~~
bosie
> all you get over a good €1000 bike is some protection from the elements

and speed. <http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm> at 200w i would be
50% faster (with no wind) than with a road bike. with wind its far more.
imagine going 50km/h or 60km/h with a bicycle

~~~
tga
Make that a €2000 good electrical bike then, you're still paying €3000+ for
the fancy body.

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jchrisa
My e-assist cargo bike is more practical but tops out at 20mph. Picture:
<https://twitter.com/jchris/status/312728928919896064>

It was pricey for a bike but cheaper than the car I replaced with it.

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FilterJoe
I'm a bike commuter, and in the past 3 years electric bike commuter. I had leg
injuries and the electric bike I purchased enabled me to continue commuting by
bike with light peddling. For the past 3 years my commute is 4 miles each way,
with 1 mile of climbing on the way home.

I did not find the arguments laid out for velomobiles all that compelling. All
but 2 advantages of a velomobile can be had with a US $1000 electric bike,
such as:

* pedal assist for acceleration and hill climbing

* not arriving sweaty

* very low fuel/electricity cost

The velomobile could potentially give me:

* rain protection

* faster speeds

But it would also lose me:

* portability (can carry up stairs, take in commuter rail train, etc.)

* storage space (barely bigger than a regular bike so home: garage, work: office).

* multiuse paths

Even at the SAME cost these disadvantages would outweigh the advantages for my
use case - it currently only takes me about 3 minutes extra to get to work and
about 6 minutes extra to get home over a car. The roads to work are all 25 MPH
with lots of stop signs and traffic lights so being able to slide by cards on
the right is an advantage of a regular-sized bike. And it doesn't rain that
much where I live - I commute via bus 5-10 times/year due to rain. I really
don't like taking a bus so that would be a time I'd love to have a velomobile
- but not at a cost of thousands of dollars so I can skip taking a round trip
bus ride 5-10 days a year!

On the other hand, I can certainly imagine a use case for a velomobile: If you
live in a flat area with lots of rain and snow and a commute that uses roads
that go faster than 25 MPH - perhaps the Midwest of the U.S.

edit: formatting

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jepper
Another bicycle innovation, the sailing bike: <http://www.whike.com/en/>

~~~
pqs
That looks very fun, but not very practical, at least where I live. I guess
that most users would mostly use it as a normal recumbent, except during the
weekends and holidays, when it is easier to go to a large and flat area to
sail.

edit: spelling, and other small edits.

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PeterisP
I would feel scared in it on the streets due to low height - rinding a bicycle
is fun, efficient but a tad risky; but riding a recumbent or this one feels
like a deathwish since a SUV or truck wouldn't notice a 90cm high vehicle
right in front of them, it would be obscured behind car front hood.

~~~
jepper
I see quite a lot of these vehicles in fly by on the dutch roads, they use the
road and not the bicycle lane. They are becoming quite popular. Luckely we
don't have that many "tractors" as we call the big SUV's. Drivers already have
to mind the bicyclists so the velocycles are just another road user.

When i'm on my racing bike i can barely keep up with the non electric
velocycles, often driven by 40 year old or so professionals commuting. They
are incredibly fast for little energy expended.

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twelvechairs
low tech magazine is one of the best reads on the internet. every post is
something really in depth (huge amounts of research) and interesting. good to
see this on hn

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Shivetya
Efficient simply because of how much you have to be willing to do without. The
most obvious is climate control. Sure you might not get wet but damn I would
not want to be that close to the road in the dead of summer and I cannot
imagine the fun on cold days either. Top it off with no real crash protection;
just versus normal objects; most likely very little standards in
manufacturing, and then there is visibility; both for the user and others.
Storage, well as long as it fits on a bicycle it should fit here, maybe.

So yeah, its more efficient than an automobile but it does not compete with
automobiles. Why compare not compare it to something in everyday use, like
bicycles? Price most likely. So they went with an absurd comparison.

~~~
bryanlarsen
A scooter or motorcycle is the best comparison. Similar levels of safety &
cost & climate protection & fun, IMO.

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bryanlarsen
The OP spends a lot of time on the licensing issue. They complain that they
cannot be licensed as an electrically-assisted bicycle and in some places
cannot even be licensed as a moped.

Not licensing as a bicycle means that it must use the road and cannot use
bicycle lanes and also means that a driver's license is required to use it.

Which seems totally reasonable. These things move at 50km/h+. They would be a
menace on the bicycle paths and belong on the road. I also have no qualms
limiting them to people old enough to get a driver's license.

Electric velomobiles have a speed and safety profile similar to a scooter --
they should be licensed as one, and be required to follow the same laws as
one.

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Egregore
Put photo-voltaic cells on top and we have a dream vehicle.

~~~
k__
What, on a velomobile, would profit from this?

~~~
Egregore
These are electric velomobiles, so you can charge the batteries from solar
energy.

You can go in the morning to work, put them in a sunny parking lot and in the
evening you have it fully charged.

~~~
k__
are those cells really that strong? :o

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JOnAgain
I can totally see those catching on. Personally, my choice of car has nothing
to do with how people perceive me. This is especially true of women who always
say tell me they don't care what kind of car I drive, and I really believe
that's their honest opinion.

Oh no, I'm late for work -- no worries, rather than walk today I'll just hop
on my segway.

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jdevonport
Reminds me of the Sinclair C5, Sir Clive Sinclair maintained it was the most
successful electric vehicle ever until recently when it was overtaken by the
Nissan Leaf. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5>

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amalag
How are velomobiles different from a covered moped?

~~~
bergie
Cleaner and cheaper power source. Moped cars (which I assume you meant) are
quite popular in Europe for rural 16-18 old kids, as they can't drive regular
cars yet:

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/20451602>

~~~
amalag
I meant a two wheeled motorized bicycle. Some have been around since WWII
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9loSoleX>

The laws vary state to state in US. No car likes being stuck behind a low
powered slow moped though.

