

Nokia sues Apple for infringement of multiple patents - mustpax
http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1349562

======
Shooter
Nokia has always been fairly quick on the IP lawsuit trigger, I think. They
sued one of my earlier companies (biofeedback and health monitoring in
phones/PDAs, etc.) after we demonstrated the devices at a very small (<50
people, including startup teams) conference. They have ridiculously _broad_
patents in the mobile area. And they have _very_ ambitious plans.

Of course, they still have no device on the market that does what our devices
could do, and probably never will. I hope Bilski changes some of the patent BS
for the better.

~~~
kenshi
It's going to be interesting to watch how Nokia squares up their Pro-Open
Source message (see: maemo) with their IP enforcement strategies.

Nokia have of course every right to enforce their IP, but PR wise they look
very lame for this move. The timing (just as Apple announces a record quarter)
and the fact they clearly have failed to make a competitive product to the
iPhone, just makes them look desperate.

------
jacquesm
sent to communication.corp@nokia.com :

Dear Nokia,

For more than a decade I've been a loyal user of your products, pretty much
every year or so I would upgrade my phone to your latest model.

Today that comes to an end.

My reason is that I think that companies should compete on quality and price,
not to use software patents as a means of stifling competition.

Software Patents were a mistake when they were granted to begin with, to see
the proud company that Nokia once was stoop to the use of the dirtiest weapons
in business is really sad.

I realize that my voice hardly counts in issues like this, but I figured that
by letting you know, you are aware that there is another price attached to
this lawsuit.

best regards,

    
    
       Jacques Mattheij

~~~
pwmanagerdied
Doesn't Apple abuse patents too? In Job's original iPhone presentation, didn't
he say something like "and we've patented the hell out of it"?

Unless you don't but Apple either, which makes sense.

~~~
axod
The system is broken. If a company had a successful product, and didn't
"patent the hell out of it", others would get those patents, and sue it.

So personally, I don't blame companies for patenting. I do blame companies
that sue.

But the system needs fixing.

~~~
borism
You like to have rules, but don't like them to be enforced?

~~~
axod
No, I'd much rather not have the rules at all :/

With the rules setup how they currently are, it'd be irresponsible for a
company such as Apple _not_ to patent things incase they get sued.

I'd rather see that changed so that _no_ _one_ can get silly all-encompassing
general patents, and certainly not software or UI patents.

------
cromulent
"We like competition because it makes us better, but we will not stand for
companies infringing on our IP and we will use whatever weapons we have at our
disposal."

Tim Cook, Apple COO, Jan 21 2009.

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zokier
Well, atleast Nokia has done quite a lot of research on that field, so its not
just patent trolling.

~~~
protomyth
Unfortunately, a lot of these patents are the overly broad variety. I wonder
if this is just Nokia's attempt to get a cross licensing deal with Apple. The
amount that was quoted ($200mil) is extremely low.

------
jacquesm
Ok, I just bought my last nokia phone.

Screw them and the horse they rode in on, this is just a bid of weakness. If
you can't compete with your product line in fair ways then you should revamp
your product line, not turn to your lawyers.

What a bunch of losers.

I've been using Nokia phones for the last decade, with a two week 'diversion'
to Samsung (talk about bad firmware). Nokia has an 'ok' product but it could
be a whole lot better, I'm as loyal as can be but software patents are a bad
thing and using them like this is just plain dumb.

Bye Bye Nokia, you once were an outstanding company.

~~~
zacharypinter
Eh. Apple has continually played the patent game to the detriment of others. I
don't feel any particular animosity towards Nokia for playing the same game
with Apple. With any luck, this will be another example of why our patent
system is flawed and needs to be revamped.

~~~
mikedouglas
When has Apple sued another company for patent infringement (not including
countersuits)?

~~~
noste
"Apple Inc. v. Atico International USA Inc. et al" looks like it would fit the
bill (see
[http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/delaware/dedce/1:2008c...](http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/delaware/dedce/1:2008cv00283/40240/)
)

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pistoriusp
If you can't beat them, sue them?

"The patents cover wireless data, speech coding, security and encryption and
are infringed by all Apple iPhone models."

I would love to know exactly what they are suing for?

~~~
stdan27
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Am I too pessimistic in thinking
they're suing for a 'slice of the pie'?

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mtarnovan
Launching this lawsuit at a point where Apple stock is at an all-time high
might not be a coincidence.

~~~
chaosprophet
Yeah and apparently Apple stock fell after the announcement.

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srn
Isn't apple just as bad with itunes and the palm pre?

<http://www.technewsworld.com/story/67615.html?wlc=1256230659>

Google isn't immune either

[http://phandroid.com/2009/09/25/cyanogen-gets-cd-from-
google...](http://phandroid.com/2009/09/25/cyanogen-gets-cd-from-google/)

None of these companies are golden. Buy what works for you.

~~~
protomyth
Well, Apple hasn't sued Palm for a patent violation and Palm is the one
violating the USB IF's rules on device identification.

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bshep
The release is not clear where the infringement is, but AFAIK the GSM
compatibility is in the GSM modem.

I dont know if Apple is liable if the infringement is by the modem in the
iPhone since Apple doesnt make the modem, they buy it from another company.

------
stevenbedrick
What I don't get: the iPhone came out in, what, 2007? Why is Nokia only just
now getting around to suing Apple over these patents?

~~~
jacquesm
Because they just realized they can't make something that will compete with
the Iphone without violating apples patents ?

So they figure rather than to wait they should sue first, hope to get apples
attention in a way they can't ignore and 'settle' for cross licensing. And so
the madness continues.

Nokia should give up their software patents and simply make a stand instead of
going out of their way to look like losers here.

They were one of the most r&d driven companies in the world after Xerox, the
stuff they did was pretty groundbreaking, unfortunately in the field of
software that allows you to take out patents. That should have never happened.
Nokia was one of the parties lobbying the EU very hard to allow software
patents:

<http://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Software_patents>

Now you can see why.

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rimantas
Repeating the bit about spending "EUR 40 billion in R&D during the last two
decades" adds more weight to it?

~~~
andreyf
Yes, the idea is, they spent 40 billion creating IP, now they get the
government to enforce a monopoly on that IP for them. That's the point of
patents.

~~~
tumult
If I flush 50 million dollars down a toilet, can I too have the government
enforce broad patents on software practices that are obvious and have existed
for years?

~~~
chaosprophet
I believe the patents Nokia speaks of were neither obvious, nor existed for
years when Nokia originally patented them. Nokia's IP is present in every GSM
phone.

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johng
[http://www.talkiphone.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-s...](http://www.talkiphone.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-suing-apple1.gif)

------
lispm
they are getting desperate

~~~
buro9
Nah, they're probably out to implement something that Apple has patented and
that Apple isn't willing to licence. I'm betting they'll settle on a patent
sharing agreement.

~~~
launic
Yes, it can be this, or it might be as well exactly what the press releases
says. In other words, Apple is to arrogant to pay licensing fees for what
other are already paying.

"Nokia has already successfully entered into license agreements including
these patents with approximately 40 companies, including virtually all the
leading mobile device vendors, allowing the industry to benefit from Nokia's
innovation."

~~~
lispm
I wonder which patents Nokia wants to have access to.

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shiranaihito
What the hell.. ? I thought us Finns didn't do lame greed-lawsuits.

~~~
jonknee
Maybe it's not a lame greed lawsuit? Nokia has IP in every GSM phone...
Perhaps Apple isn't licensing like they are supposed to? We'll have to see how
it pans out.

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omouse
Fucking A. This is going to be awesome :D

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noonespecial
While I strongly disagree with this at best destructive, at worst _childish_
use of our legal system, lets not forget that apple has been only too quick to
use similar tactics whenever it suits them.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/apple-sues-
woolwort...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/apple-sues-woolworths-
ove_n_309450.html)

What do the say about those who live by the sword?

~~~
tumult
That was a suit to defend their trademark. They just had to stop using the
logo.

Nokia is suing Apple because they've been beaten at handsets and are losing
money, and someone decided this was their best shot at getting back.

~~~
noonespecial
Yes but despite the downvotes, I'm sicking to this one. There was litte danger
of confusion between brands, Apple basically just made a nuisance of itself.

Apple has a long history of heavy handed legal tactics against much weaker
entities, including bloggers and critics. Apple innovates. They have a real
product, so they often find themselves on this end of the stick when it comes
to patents. In other matters however, they seem quite comfortable swing it.
Especially at small heads.

I suppose there's no small element of schadenfreude here to see the tables
turned and Apple unfairly harassed by a perversion of the law.

