Ask HN: Prefer job matching site to exclude 3rd-party external recruiters? Why? - mgav
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Rekaiden
Yes. In my experience such recruiters consume job-seekers' time without
providing any increased chance at employment, and are of generally poor
quality.

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mgav
Thank you @Rekaiden.

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chrisbennet
Recruiters ads are fine _if_ they include the name of the company they are
hiring for. I think stack overflow jobs has that policy.

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mgav
Thank you @chrisbennet. The site I'm working on isn't a job posting board
approach. Instead, job seekers create anonymous profiles (like LinkedIn, but
very different content) and get anonymously pinged 1x when recruiter has a
position that fits. Do you prefer only internal recruiters, or would 3rd party
recruiters be welcome?

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chrisbennet
I don't use recruiters anymore but when I did, I didn't care as long as they
represented the company. I didn't like the ones who would call from 1000 miles
away and didn't know about the position they were recruiting for and didn't
know or care if I was a match - no I am not interested in moving to another
state for less than I make now.

Sounds like your idea is to provide "sales leads" to recruiters. The thing is,
when I was a job hunter I wasn't interested in throwing my info out there for
every recruiter to spam me. I wanted to talk to them first or at least see the
job description and _then_ decide if I wanted to work with them.

Suppose you were looking for a car; would you want to give your information to
a 3rd party to sell to car dealers so they could call you and try to sell you
a car? You might but you'd also be very leery of how that information would be
used (you know it's going to be sold to anyone who will pay for it). "Oh, we
would never sell it to people that will call you at 9pm from and Indian call
center."

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mgav
Thank you @chrisbennet. Your point distinguishing recruiters representing a
company for a specific job is very helpful. Stack Exchange has this (great)
requirement.

You're 100% right about concern over how job seekers' information is used. I
know that's why so many developers aren't on LinkedIn - to avoid all the
inquiries.

That's exactly why every profile is anonymous on Enlightened Jobs, and why
profiles are based on exactly what a candidate is good at and interested in
doing, what they want to learn, technologies & industries they're drawn to,
and what they want to avoid in their next job. No resume.

The idea is that if recruiters sift through anonymous profiles and find a
terrific fit, based on these key factors, the recruiter then shares details of
the job with the (still anonymous) candidate.

ONLY then, IF the candidate chooses, do we connect them (a "handshake").

Having recruiters pay a healthy amount per handshake discourages spamming.
Ratings of the recruiters by candidates should help too (similar to Google's
quality score).

Any thoughts or advice?

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chrisbennet
Sorry for the delay, just noticed your replay.

So what you're offering is more like an escrow (not a perfect analogy I know).
That sounds much better to me as an applicant than the "sales lead generator"
as I previously pictured it.

I see a couple of challenges:

1) As an applicant, at the end of the day, it all comes down to trust. When a
company harvests something of value from one party and sells it to another,
the tendency is to do what the (paying) customer wants. "We'll pay you big
bucks if you give us _all_ your sales leads."

2) Chicken and egg problem: For the service to valuable to either party, there
needs to be a certain critical mass. Even with the trust and reach that Stack
Overflow Jobs has, it might not be enough. I've had my profile on SOJ for a
year or 2 and I've never heard a peep from anyone.
[http://stackoverflow.com/story/chrisbennetcv](http://stackoverflow.com/story/chrisbennetcv)

I think people think about fixing the "hiring problem" from the perspective of
job seekers. The simple fact is if job seekers aren't paying you, _they aren
't your customers._

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mgav
Thank you (yet) again, @chrisbennet. I feel like I owe you tuition.

I'm getting "page not found" text on your profile at
[https://stackoverflow.com/story/chrisbennetcv](https://stackoverflow.com/story/chrisbennetcv).
Maybe I need to be logged-in as a hiring person on SO, instead of just as a
user (with my unimpressive 84 rep points).

I hadn't thought about this enough, but you're right about trust being
critical and very hard to establish. I don't have a good solution yet, but at
least you've helped me see this key problem.

While money matters, I don't fully agree that "if job seekers aren't paying,
they aren't your customers." Instead of money, they are paying with their time
and coveted profile information, without which EJ's is worthless.

IMO, Airbnb has done a good job solving from both sides of their market, even
though (I think) the renter is who pays them.

Thank you again. Please let me know if I can ever help you or your friends
(user testing, survey, car wax, etc.) - mgav [at] enlightenedjobs.com

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chrisbennet
Good luck!

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mgav
Disclosure: I'm NOT a recruiter, but I have a startup in this space -
[https://enlightenedjobs.com](https://enlightenedjobs.com) \- and I'm
wrestling with this question. Thanks for your help.

