
Ask HN: How do you deal with after work fatigue? - zuzuleinen
I started working in programming 3 years ago. Ever since I got into 8h&#x2F;days programming, I feel really tired after I come home.<p>I&#x27;m not able to do the meaningless task, and sometimes I just get into bed at 7 and sleep.<p>I suppose that the nature of our jobs depletes our will and maybe that&#x27;s why I&#x27;m like this. I tried doing some push-ups, going by bike to work, quitting smoking, but didn&#x27;t solve much.<p>So if anyone was in the same position and found a way to get by, I would really appreciate some advices. I feel I live only during the week-ends.
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skylark
I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet:

Do you actually enjoy your current job?

I find that if you don't really enjoy what you're doing, you end up living in
this perpetual state of stress. And while that stress might be small at any
one given time (minor annoyances here and there), because you're working for
8+ hours/day, it really adds up. Bodies aren't meant to be chronically
subjected to cortisol (stress hormone).

I hate my current job, and I completely 100% empathize with the way you feel.
I shifted my sleeping schedule so I could get 2-3 hours of work in before
leaving for the day, but I just feel so beat down that I can't motivate myself
to do anything.

I'm getting ready to leave so I decided to take the rest of my vacation time
to prep for interviews. The difference is night and day - I've been studying
10+ hours/day without slowing down and I finally feel like I'm full of energy
and hope again.

Maybe you just need a change of scenery.

~~~
PopeOfNope
This. Cortisol is the enemy, so anything you can do to bring down the cortisol
will help decrease that tired feeling after 8 hours of work. That means doing
three things programmers aren't well known for: eating well ("close to the
farm" as my grandfather put it), exercising and sleeping at night. Vitamin C
and Omega-3 are supplements that supposedly help with reducing cortisol in the
short term.

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Jemaclus
This is kind of a long story, but bear with me, it's relevant.

I went to a book signing by Brandon Sanderson. Not a huge fan of him as a
person, but he's a fantastic writer and an incredibly smart man. He started
off the signing with a little story about creativity. When Brandon was in
college, he worked 3rd shift at a hotel. He'd go to school in the mornings,
sleep in the afternoons, and work all night. He tried to roll his own degree,
but they made him stick to the Creative Writing plan. Instead, he decided to
mix up his electives -- take as many subjects as he possibly could. A writer
needs to know about history, science, philosophy, technology, and so on. You
can't just spend all day in English classes and expect to be a well-rounded
writer!

So he took as many classes as he could. He'd go to class in the morning, sleep
in the afternoon, and then get to work around midnight. In between checking in
guests at the hotel, he'd work on his homework, and once his homework was
done, he'd write for hours. He wrote his first six or seven novels while
working at the hotel (the last one was actually picked up by a publisher or
publication).

He said that he had no problem with this schedule... except for his
programming class. He was taking a class that used Pascal, and he'd get to
work, do his Pascal homework, and then be completely unable to write. He took
dozens of classes at university, but the only one that left him completely
creatively drained was programming.

In other words, programming took just as much energy out of him as writing did
-- it exercises the same brain muscles, so to speak.

I don't really have much of a point to this, other than to say that a rather
well-known fantasy author commiserates. Programming is hard. It's draining.
It's being non-stop creative in solving problems.

My personal philosophy is this: everything can wait until tomorrow. When the
clock hits 5 o'clock, start wrapping up. Find a stopping place, and pick it up
tomorrow. Barring servers crashing, the work will still be there tomorrow. I
don't check my email, I don't open my laptop, I don't do anything work-related
once I get home. Home is _me_ time. Nine-to-five is company time.

I guess there are two things here: programming is hard work, and draw a line
between your personal and work life.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I have a different theory: programming shuts down half your brain, giving all
the juice to the other half.

When I stop for lunch, the world is in 2D for a while. Then after a few
minutes it springs into 3D. I have to guess, that half my brain has been
looking through its one eye mostly, coding with all its might. The other half
is idling away, not even processing much visually.

I know, the right-brain left-brain thing is not universal. But for me, that's
how it works.

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DanBC
There are some things you might want to investigate with a doctor.

1) get your thyroid levels checked.

2) sleep apnea.

3) possibly anemia

4) stress

5) etc

After that advice is around sleep hygiene, then food and exercise, and stress
resiliance

~~~
ccarter84
Good list. For me it was at least in part apnea ... still working on number 4.
I'm <160 lbs, 6 feet even, and diagnosed @ 29. It's not just for the 50+
community.

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uhwhat
Exercise, diet (avoid excess oils/fats, sugars, processed foods), loose leaf
teas (+honey) instead of coffee, side projects that motivate you. Following
through with improving these habits for at least 3 months.

Standing desks help some people as well but not nearly as much as the former
combined.

~~~
yetihehe
Exercise + side projects is apparently not enough, I've tried for about 4
months already. I have one VERY motivating side project, but somehow can't
find the energy to do it. Maybe it's coffee+sugars that's keeping me down.

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kfk
Friends. If I break the week to see people I like to hang out with in the
evening, things go better. My headaches, my mood and my overall tiredness
drops. I think that's because those moments allow me to focus on something
other than work. Doing the same tasks over and over is a good receipt for
feeling like crap at the end of the day. Plus, it is incredibly demotivating
entering this loop of house/bus/work-work/bus/house.

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meric
8h/day programming is exhausting. I have one hour lunch and spend two hours
doing non-programming work (e.g. discussing code with colleagues over IM). If
I program 8 hours straight I'd be sleeping at 7 too.

~~~
zuzuleinen
Sorry I wasn't explicit enough. I also have 1 hour lunch, and some discussions
with colleagues(although I don't think they cumulate to 2h).

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scelerat
I almost never program exclusively 8 hours in a day. When it does happen, it's
either because I'm uniquely inspired -- some insight to a problem that I badly
want to resolve -- or there is some crunch deadline approaching fast.

Typically I write code in chunks of time not exceeding two hours, after which
I shift to other tasks: catching up on emails; writing specs or drawing
diagrams; thinking about larger-picture issues; reading work-related documents
or instructional material; talking or IMing with coworkers.

Also, I take walks, go swimming, go for a run, go to the gym, do some pushups,
get a coffee, read a book, play a musical instrument in between programming
sessions.

Those context shifts make each programming block more meaningful and
concentrated for me.

My most productive days usually leave me energized, not exhausted.

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romanlevin
Are you sure the fatigue is related to work? Have you seen a doctor?

~~~
TheM00se
I agree with romanlevin, perhaps this isn't fatigue. Are you certain that you
don't have depression? All of the symptoms you are describing can certainly
point to it.

~~~
snowpanda
Also, look into sleep apnea and breathing disorders while sleeping, if you
don't sleep correctly, you will be tired all the time. I personally have this
myself and am waiting for treatment.

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ssivark
This recent article in the NewYorker was interesting:
[http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/a-new-
theo...](http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/a-new-theory-of-
distraction)

I think most people are not equipped to deal with monotony/drudgery. I find
that it really helps to have hobbies that will recharge you mentally. Double
plus if that hobby happens to involve physical exercise. Eg: I'm trying to
develop swimming and squash as hobbies. There will be days when I'll be be
listless and frustrated, but a couple of hours of these mentally relaxes me
enormously. Also, I often prefer more active to passive forms of relaxation,
like playing pool/carrom by myself. HTH; Good luck!

\----

Other responses on this thread have good suggestions (friends, etc. Spending
time with your partner, or dating might also help). Loneliness is often a
trigger for listlessness. Needless to say, get your health checked and ensure
you're having a healthy diet.

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ak39
Hi Zuzu

This sounds like the work you do in those 8 hours is either:

1\. Not challenging enough or

2\. Too much for one guy (you) to handle.

You're zoned out. Figure out which one it is. There are meditation techniques
to give your mind the space and time to think about this. A simple break (a
week or more) away from the work is often good enough for me while my mind
subconsciously processes things. (Don't do any work during this break!)

If you find that the work is not challenging enough, change your environment,
move slowly into more and more challenging work where you feel the feedback of
accomplishment re-energises you. If this move is based on a request to a boss,
client etc and it falls on deaf ears, start looking for another job/client.

If the work is too challenging, ask for sensible deadlines (fuk I hate
deadlines!), scope reductions and a kinder work environment. If this request
of yours falls on deaf ears, start making plans to quit for an alternative
that is better.

The fact that you picked this up is already a good sign.

Good luck!

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AdieuToLogic
Try introducing short breaks every hour or so. 5 minutes, perhaps 10 every
other time.

When doing so, walk around a bit. It is important to physically separate
yourself from the work area. I recommend going outside and taking your mind
off of whatever task(s) you are immersed in solving. Doing so with a coworker
you get along with often adds to the benefit.

HTH

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Morieris
It seems odd that nobody has mentioned this.. but take a nap.

I set a phone timer for 18 minutes, lay down in the dark, and nap for a bit.
18 minutes is completely arbitrary, but my body has adjusted to that time
specifically, for me.

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sharmi
I had issues similar to this twice. The first time when i was in college, i
consulted a doctor. He diagonised vitamin deficiency due to poor food at
hostel. The vitamin supplements helped a lot. It felt like a switch was
flipped on. Another time was quite recently. I had healthy diet and exercise
almost everyday. Yet i often felt drained. Adding a yoga session in the
morning made a huge difference. Around that time, i also stopping sitting for
long periods and moved a lot more. I am trying a make shift standing desk.
Maybe that helped too.

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miesman
I find that taking short breaks for intense things like studying and coding
helps. I shoot for 50 Min on 10 off. Time off will be something undemanding
like slashdot or hacker news. Tweak the times to find what works.

Also if you go wide open for any long period with no down time you are going
to burn out and start thrashing. 2 weeks is my limit.

Intention is important. If I start the day with the intent of having something
left over for myself at the end it really helps.

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mring33621
1) exercise before work (this should help, but it sounds like you've already
tried it)

2) eat breakfast before work

3) get out of the office for lunch, maybe even have a beer with friends, once
in a while

4) stand up for yourself while at work -- challenge silly tasks and try to
delegate 'crap' work

5) get a medical checkup

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junkri
4-5 years ago I had the same problem, I even fell asleep in front of the
computer at work! My solution is really simple: huge dose of vitamin. I use
"Scitec Multi Pro Plus" as my daily vitamin since then, and it works like a
charm.

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abledon
Try learning a form of relaxing moving meditation : tai-chi, or qi-gong.

It helps you to relearn to relax your parasympathetic nervous system, which
might get 'jammed' in the day being stuck at a desk for 6+ hours.

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s_kilk
my fatigue improved greatly once I improved my diet. Eat less sugar, get some
fresh fruit and veg, take a probiotic of some kind. Nothing too drastic, but
it makes a big difference

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oweiler
What has helped me was working on side projects during my commute.

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pullo
a) think about changing your job or even career. b) If you dont think the
fatigue is work related, you need to find a hobby and or a relationships that
help you feel energized. c)For many people work is not calling , but a means
to a good life, and that is OK. d)And regardless of what fatigues you ,take
frequent breaks. Make it a point to go on vacations. Sometimes, being away
from things helps to see them clearer.

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Anand_S
You may not be getting enough sunlight (Vitamin D). It is very common in such
professions.

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bewe42
walking home if possible. Some time ago I figured that I need around 45
minutes to completely disconnect and refresh from an intense day of work.

