
Ask HN: Before accepting a job or interview, what are red flags to look out for? - kevindeasis
Bonus round: Is it worth it to spend $100 just to travel for an interview?<p>At least once a week some of the companies interviewing me for jobs have their offices located four hours from where I am situated
======
pandaman
This reminds me of an old joke. A guy travels to the USSR for the first time.
He arrives to the airport, takes a taxi to the hotel and, as he walks from the
taxi, falls into an open manhole. In hospital he tries to complain about this.
"What do you want us to do?" somebody asks, "Well, put something around it,
maybe some red flags?", "Did you get here by plane?", "Sure", "So you have
been to the airport, right?", "Of course", "Did you notice a giant red flag
flying over the gate?", "You mean the USSR's official banner?", "Here you are,
that was your red flag".

The point is that you need to research the company. There are sites like
glassdoor, there are forums and blog posts, news about layoffs, acquisitions,
contracts etc.

~~~
kevindeasis
What if it's almost hard to find information about the company? Like if they
are a new startup, that is profitable and their team doesn't have any info
online?

~~~
pandaman
Research people then, especially the management. If people are fresh grads
with no info too then, here you are, it's your red flag.

------
rdtsc
> Bonus round: Is it worth it to spend $100 just to travel for an interview?

As someone else mentioned, there is your red flag. If a company can't put up a
good face for the interview and compensate your for your time to travel there,
that is a good sign they'll be stingy with bonuses, benefits or other things
in the future.

I was impressed by one company I interviewed with, there were prepared to pay
me for gas for visiting them because I drove there. Other company which flew
me over, gave me an extra $50 for the cab on the way back and for getting a
dinner at the airport when I flew back. It is a small, relatively cheap token
of appreciation that makes a good first impression.

My advice is don't ask explicitly as the first thing about it, but as they
invite you, when picking a time, ask the person making arrangements, what
company will compensate you for amongst other questions. This should probably
not be the deciding factor and if you really like the company otherwise, still
go, but it is just another heuristic to use.

Other red flag -- they give a very small decision window. They don't want you
to have time to get more offers in and compare. In that case, ask to midify
the date to think longer. That is a good test how agreeable they are. If they
don't want to, that is another red flag.

~~~
kevindeasis
About your last point what is a reasonable timeline to get more offers and
compare? I'm asking as I have some companies wanting to hire me, but I've been
recently given a shot to interview with great companies.

------
flukus
This is specifically for dev jobs, c# in particular:

1\. The biggest red flag is that they talk about agile a lot, often they list
it in the job title. I like agile, but they ones that talk about it the most
are almost always the worst at it. Interviewing at these companies it becomes
quickly apparent that they don't have a clue what agile means (or they think
it means stand up meetings). The ones practicing agile don't have to talk
about it.

2\. A short list of OSS libraries in use. They are probably either doing a lot
of things sub optimally, or even worse, reinventing a lot of wheels poorly.

3\. They use TFS for source control. Much like VSS before it, the only reason
it gets used is ignorance on behalf of the developers/company. Quite
frequently you'll find that they use it because it's all they've ever known.

2 and 3 are both great indications that when they run into a problem google is
not the first port of call.

------
zerohp
I once interviewed with a company that would not pay for travel. I saw it as a
red flag but I went anyway. They are in a city I was interested in visiting,
so I scheduled a half day interview for a Monday and took a long weekend. The
trip was a lot of fun and I was happy to have a weekend away. I don't regret
the trip.

Every interview went well and we had a good lunch before I left. Two hours
later I got a call from the team lead. He was very excited to tell me that an
offer was being put together and I'd have it by the end of the day. On my way
to the airport the salary offer came. It was lower than the ballpark figure we
discussed before I came in for the on-site interviews and lower than my
current salary. I immediately declined and declined further negotiation.
Lesson learned.

------
probinso
Recent acquisition means that employees often have culture changing underneath
them. This often results in high attrition.

Fad perks, like kegs.

Open work spaces that are also quiet.

Large number of new hires.

The overuse of the word startup from large companies.

The use of the phrase drink from the firehose as if it is positive

Companies may be better set up for new employees of specific skill levels. If
you are fresh out of school, then be aware that some companies will have poor
onboard support.

Lack of age diversity, diversity is potentially difficult to come by, age
diversity is not. This requirement may not apply to startups that cater to
persons without children.

Bonus question: in general the company should pay for your travels. If you
feel weird about asking and you can afford it, then drive out for the
interview. Getting good interview practice is worth time and money investment.
Do not feel that they owe you something because you made this decision. The
company should also be willing to pay for your move to their location. This
should be a requirement if you are going to accept an offer.

~~~
kevindeasis
>Large number of new hires

If they are hiring lots of people, count how many empty cubicles they have;
sometimes it's a sign they've laid off lots of people recently

Yea I've done lots of interviews and some companies offered me a job on the
start. I passed their interview because they've asked me generic questions
that I've been asked numerous times.

Your point about getting interview experience from doing interviews is great
advice!

------
AndreyErmakov
As a rule, never travel to a job interview on your own expenses, unless it's
just a few USD/EUR for a local bus/train ticket or something similar. That
would demonstrate to them that you don't value your time and money and that
they can potentially abuse you further down the road. You will also encourage
them to continue with that strategy in the future.

As for the red flags, google the names of the people who you will be working
with and also of those who manage the organization. Go through their public
activities and get an idea of their personalities. Sometimes you will find out
that your potential colleagues are real jerks, and it can happen that the
organization (especially if it's a startup) is run by a 24-year-old arrogant
kid. In both cases I would skip that "opportunity" and would look for
something else.

~~~
kevindeasis
I agree, in a way it kind of is a bad precedent.

That second advice is gold. I've been doing it since day one and it definitely
helped to paint a picture the type of culture a company has. Luckily, most of
the people that have been interviewing me seem like genuinely nice folks.

------
mamurphy
A good article on this:
[http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html)

Joel goes into depth on these 12 points:

"Do you use source control? Can you make a build in one step? Do you make
daily builds? Do you have a bug database? Do you fix bugs before writing new
code? Do you have an up-to-date schedule? Do you have a spec? Do programmers
have quiet working conditions? Do you use the best tools money can buy? Do you
have testers? Do new candidates write code during their interview? Do you do
hallway usability testing?"

~~~
kevindeasis
I've noticed most companies posting jobs on StackOverflow have information
which checkboxes they've checked in Joel's list.

I think it would be even better if there was another complementary list about
culture and the company's motivation.

------
bparanj
Too many changes in who will interview. This shows that they are not
organized.

They expect you to use your magic wand to make their problems go away.

~~~
rdtsc
Ha, Amazon's AWS fits. Didn't call on the agreed date for phone interview.
Then when visiting on-site, future manager, probably the main person I should
have been talking to, wasn't there. Quickly assembled together an interview
schedule in 20 min with people who , except maybe two, seemed distracted and
just wanted to go do something else. Forgot about me during lunch. So was left
sitting in an office for an hour without anyone checking on me (eventually got
up and started wondering the hallways hoping someone would stop me and ask me
-- "Hey I don't think you belong here" and I was hoping to reply with a silly
joke about trying to steal AWS's root CA private keys). Then of course they
promised to call back with a decision in 2 days, which was more like 2 weeks.
Didn't get an offer, no surprise (I did get snarky about the "leadership
principles", they probably didn't appreciate that), but it did make a good
story I like to tell every time interviews come up.

~~~
bparanj
If you have to pull their head out of their ass during the interview process,
you will have to do it everyday several times. It is better not to work there.
If they give you an offer, give an outrageous salary range as your
compensation to work in that kind of environment.

------
JSeymourATL
> what are red flags to look out for?

Ask to speak with the actual hiring executive first for 30 minutes via Skype.
Have good, solid questions prepared for them. That's YOUR initial scorecard.

If they won't grant access, or can't give satisfactory answers-- those are Big
Red Flags.

Incidentally, it's customary that the party requesting an interview cover
reasonable travel expenses.

~~~
kevindeasis
What you've mentioned crossed my mind during the trip. I agree that I
should've done those beforehand

------
cakes
If you have to pay more than you would to normally commute, they should
compensate you for the travel expenses.

Personally when a company goes through the effort of organizing an interview
(especially with travel) and I get there and some amount of
chaos/disorganization is apparent I get extremely cautious and is a big red
flag for me. Nothing like flying across the country (paid for) to arrive and
have the person I'm interviewing with change and leave me waiting in the lobby
30 minutes.

~~~
kevindeasis
I've just realized this yesterday. I've noticed that I've started to burn out
when I had to travel 8 hours to the company and back to my city in one day,
which does not include the four-hour interview.

It's taxing to the body and mind, especially to the pocket :/

------
pattle
I think asking to be compensated for travel is more acceptable in the US. In
the UK if you were to ask for compensation I think the answer would always be
a resounding "No". It just seems to be something you generally don't do.

I may be completely wrong though, is there anyone from the UK here who has
asked for travel costs to be covered and been successful?

~~~
DanBC
NHS will sometimes pay travel costs for interview if you ask for it, they
don't always offer.

Some trusts will also pay transport expenses for candidates to make a visit to
the trust to talk to people about the job before interview.

------
aphextron
Always check glassdoor.com reviews. Those have saved me from even wasting my
time on quite a few companies.

Also, watch out for interviewers who are more focused on asserting their alpha
nerd status than communicating effectively.

~~~
kevindeasis
I've had companies interview me with an employee count of greater than 600,
but no glassdoor review :/

------
imauld
So you have a 4 hour drive there, an interview that could be anywhere from 4-6
hours (if they are through) and a 4 hour trip back, 12-14 hours all told.
Adding in time to eat and whatnot you are talking about a 12-16 hour process.
After a long day a 4 hour drive home could be a little sketchy. They should
probably be offering to put you up somewhere for the night.

For comparison, when I interviewed at Amazon I told the recruiter I was within
walking distance and she still sent me an expense form.

------
isuckatcoding
This may be relevant:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11449133](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11449133)

------
codeonfire
Expert beginners. Expectations that I can't wait to work under their
superstar. "You'll get a chance to work with our Lead Principal Engineer Matt
as closely as you like!" Looking at Linkedin Matt has less than five years
experience.

~~~
aphextron
This one kills me. I've had recruiters pushing me to interview for senior/lead
positions with 2 years of experience.

~~~
probinso
'Senior Developer' Is a useless title.

If you want a title that reflects your expertise, use 'Subject Matter Expert :
<TOPIC>' somewhere on resume. This makes very clear to future employers where
your strongest skills lie.

