

Why a career in computer programming sucks - tkellogg
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/03/why_a_career_in.html

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EvaPeron
I think this author has confused "writing code" with "computer science".
Ultimately, what I love about computer SCIENCE, is that it is just that, a
science, a subset of maths. And maths are awesome. I would suggest he go back
and read about Godel, Wittgenstein, Hilbert, Turing, and their compatriots,
all of whose work influences computer science today. These giants were not
"geeks" or "code monkeys". They were scientists. If one keeps in mind the
august underpinnings of the field, one can remain inspired, even though surely
the author is correct in that working for non-technical managers sucks. But if
that is the case, then time to move to another job, or go into teaching, but
do not abandon the field just because of one sucky work experience.

Also, I did not like the nativist, xenophobic remarks in the article.
Literally half or more of the folks I work with on a daily basis are from
India or various parts of Asia and they are all brilliant, hard-working,
gracious people whom I consider it an honor and a priviledge to work for, and
I am speaking as a white American. Nativism has no place in any serious
discussion.

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PaulHoule
I'm amused at two things in his advocacy of law.

(1) Things have gotten much worse for law schoool graduates in the last 5
years, and (2) I actually ~do~ like the intellectual property lawyers I know.
As a class, they tend to be bright people who understand the intersection of
technology and business in a broad way. I just wouldn't want to be getting a
lawsuit from one of them. ;-)

~~~
smackfu
It's also amusing he thinks law doesn't change much. Grass is always greener.

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EzGraphs
As to the "Temporary nature of knowledge capital"

Some programmers want to learn a language or technology and continuously
repeat the same basic project over and over again. I have been at it for more
than a decade and am not using the same skill set that I started with -
although some (*nix and SQL) have been in heavy use for quite awhile.

I know programmers that started "back in the day" and tell horror stories of
stacks of punch cards being knocked to the floor. They are now coding in a
modern language or helping to port legacy applications. In programming - and
many other professions, you need to stay current and adapt.

Not to mention, you generally learn a lesson or two by simply dealing with
people, working through large scale projects, and seeing technologies come and
go. Some employers value this. Others opt for the cheapest salary available -
and have results that prove that this is their approach.

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Retric
Oddly enough, I find programming to move at a glacial pace. 10 years ago I
thought it was a fast moving field, but I keep seeing the same ideas remixed
over and over. If anything I think programmers should think like musicians at
the beginning it seems like things are constantly changing. But, that's all
superficial changes in style over time, after a while you focus on the ideas
and it takes less time to keep up with trends because you have seen those
ideas before.

PS: That and Google let's you leverage a lot of deep knowledge once you
understand how to ask.

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yessql
This guy should learn to program in C, and then find a job where software is a
profit center and not a cost center, and his whole perspective will change.

My first two jobs out of college were in engineering, and I made the switch to
software and have never looked back. Much better working conditions with much
better pay.

I do spend a lot of time learning new technologies, but the time spent
learning the old ones is not at all wasted, since the concepts are applicable
and make learning the new stuff really easy.

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smackfu
Oh wow, this article is 5 years old. Heh. (I was tipped off by his $900 21"
flatscreen.)

Kind of funny since the law field that he advocates has cratered in the
meantime.

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ufo
Could you elaborate? I guess many people here are not lawyers.

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smackfu
Basically, more students, more debt, less jobs. This is a couple of years old,
but I don't think things have improved that much:

"In fact, “The Deep End” was conceived in 2007, that halcyon era of $160,000
starting salaries and full employment even for law grads who had scored in the
150s on their LSAT’s.

Those days are over. As the profession lurches through its worst slump in
decades, with jobs and bonuses cut and internal pressures to perform rising,
associates do not just feel as if they are diving into the deep end, but
rather, drowning."

Source:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/fashion/17lawyer.html?_r=1...](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/fashion/17lawyer.html?_r=1&em)

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smackfu
This is so full of bullshit I don't even know where to begin. Has this person
never worked an actual job that sucks? Dude needs to watch some episodes of
Dirty Jobs.

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forensic
His problem is he's comparing jobs in completely different categories

Law, Medicine, Business are high-status and high-competition jobs. Somewhere
he got the delusion that computer programming is comparable in terms of social
status and now he's sad that the rewards are inferior.

In the grand scheme, programming is pretty high status. There are many jobs
that are lower status and only a handful that are higher status.

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tmh88j
I don't necessarily agree with the author. I'm not sure about anyone else
here, but after I learned a couple languages each additional language was
"that" much easier to learn. While the syntax and general structure may vary
from one to the next, the overall thought process is relatively the same.

In my opinion (and experience), a 60 year old with 30 years of programming
experience across various languages would probably be a better programmer than
a 27 year old of equal competence who only has, say, 5 years of professional
experience.

Just because you're using a new language doesn't mean you can't draw from
previous experiences. The same could be said for architects, animators or
graphics designers. New software is constantly coming out but the style you've
developed over the years is what can make or break you. Of course this isn't a
perfect comparison to programming, but it's still a new set of tools to learn.

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mmcconnell1618
My advice to the author: Learn the fundamentals of computer science. Learn
data structures and algorithms. Maybe he'll realize that there is a lot more
to a career in computer programming than simply knowing the latest language
hotness.

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sl4yerr
This is a pile of conjecture - devoid of any useful analysis or data-driven
conclusions.

If you have the Karma to, please vote this rubbish off the front page.

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z92
Instead of just claiming "these are all craps", why isn't someone addressing
the things what he is actually said. Point by point. Here are the points he
talked about.

\- Temporary nature of knowledge capital

\- Low prestige

\- The foreignization of computer programming

\- Project management sucks

\- The working conditions suck

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bjtitus
Here are my first thoughts on these (and, admittedly, I skimmed through the
post)

\- This argument is only valid on a surface level. It is extremely valuable to
have experience in any field not necessarily because the details of doing
business don't change but because the overall conceptual challenges in doing
the work require making mistakes and learning from this. This crops up in
system architecture, class design, etc. on a day to day basis for programmers.

\- Clearly the author has not paid attention to the startup community. There
are plenty of small companies and a thriving community of other programmers.
If this is a good argument, then the same could be said of nearly any other
field but athlete and rockstar.

\- Only time will tell if it is truly effective to outsource programming. I
think things seem to be shifting away from this, especially in the wake of
massive job losses in the U.S. (no company wants to be seen as the one
outsourcing) \- Project management is difficult but this is less important as
products become easier to build and platforms and languages evolve to make
things easier on developers.

\- The minute he mentioned his job in an IT department I just didn't bother
reading further. The author has clearly never worked in a startup or even
modern programming environment (many people I know who work in larger
companies get great perks and work in good office environments). His argument
that developers don't have the equipment to do their jobs has been totally
disproven by every company I've ever talked to. They all are most interested
in providing their employees the best tools possible.

It sounds to me like the author has had particularly poor experiences and
doesn't have a good grasp on the industry as a whole. However, the opposite
might be said about me. I may have had good experiences that were out of the
norm. Either way, programming is clearly becoming an important part of our
economy and I think that fact lends to the belief that the quality of a job in
the field will improve.

I have to say that his argument that accounting is a better profession made me
laugh out loud. 3 of my friends who are recent graduates entering the
accounting field work extremely long hours and are unhappy with their work
(two work for big firms). One of them is thinking of going back to school and
getting a computer science degree.

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tkellogg
A friend passed me this article. Despite that it has some serious holes, it
also has some serious truth to be reckoned with. Sure, if you learn the
fundamentals you can keep your skills from going stale. But statistics
indicate that it's probably more of a fantasy than true. I'm pretty young, and
I can carry far more credibility with older colleagues than if I was in a
different profession. I also can name numerous past colleagues that worked the
programming field for decades and carry absolutely no credibility. Personal
experience says that this link is not garbage.

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kayoone
Programming is about more than the Syntax of programming languages.

