
Interface Design with a Homeless person  - MIT_Hacker
http://www.delian.io/post/26331301430
======
weego
This rather confused me. Even more so because some of the details seem to
being live edited.

A cycle courier for legal documents that gets to read the documents. He crewed
on a sub (initially im sure it said commanded) yet doesn't get on with
computers yet even though he is homeless he knows about the square product,
and also having never worked in design knows about Dieter Rams, someone with
almost no designers I've ever met have ever heard of.

Just a weird story over all.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
About the wording, I actually had a friend in the Navy who reached out and
told me to change the verb. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think it was
a strange experience to have!

~~~
jawr
It is a very strange story. I'm also quite surprised you didn't know about the
two bike valves on a pump! At least it led you meet this cool person.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
Yeah, it sounds like I was out of the loop with these reversible hand pumps.
Things you learn from homeless people!

~~~
polynomial
I definitely appreciated the story, thanks! Now, having said that, I find the
continued overuse of the "homeless people" label somewhat fraught. Not just
you I mean, but in general I think it's a particularly lazy figure of speech
that does less good than harm to our understanding of the problem.

------
hdkmraf
Being homeless myself I can say most homeless people I have met do it on
choice. Not sure about the USA, but here in Tokyo people become homeless after
realizing they are wasting their lives working for goals and objectives that
benefit nobody. Eventually you realize you don't need most of the
"commodities" and "comfort" of modern life. Maybe it is my engineering
background speaking, but you learn to maximize output and minimize input in
all aspects of life. Sure, sometimes simple pleasures as sleeping can be hard
sometimes (some hot nights, some cold ones). But on the other hand there is a
feeling of freedom that comes from the lack of material possessions, nothing
to take care of, nothing to protect, no attachments, no home to go back, no
bills to pay, no future to worry about... just freedom, and it feels great :D

~~~
keithpeter
"Being homeless myself I can say most homeless people I have met do it on
choice."

Not so much in the UK. Usually psychiatric illness or drug dependency coupled
with a catastrophic loss of income. Perhaps the causes are different in
different places. I understand your idea of freedom, but I'm sure you can stay
free in a small room somewhere!

~~~
yaix
I hope even in the UK, the gov't would pay your housing and basic needs?

~~~
keithpeter
State benefits are payable, but the statutory right to be housed is for
families, not single people. There are not huge numbers of homeless people in
most cities, London is the worst of course as might be imagined.

I think there is more of a safety net here than in US, but there are holes in
it still.

------
rwhitman
What this guy didn't say is that he figured out an alternative occupation -
wandering the streets of san francisco saying intelligent things to young
middle class people in the hopes that they will give him disproportionate
handouts.

I've encountered this more than a few times when I lived in Berkeley. I think
its a technique thats somewhat endemic to the bay area homeless population.

~~~
kylebrown
The assumption I didn't appreciate, even more than "even MIT_hacker can learn
something from the homeless", was that Larry "could easily get a job at a bike
shop." The OP should read the recent article in Rolling Stone, The Sharp
Sudden Decline of America's Middle Class.

But it does sound like there's a demand from the upper-class for urban guide-
service through Tenderloin.

~~~
rwhitman
Exactly. In reality, guiding stranded bikers through the tenderloin might
actually earn the guy _more_ than working at a bike shop

------
anigbrowl
_Larry had actually been the messenger for the first documents in the Barry
Bonds perjury case. Larry had been the first member of the public to know
about the doping. He told me how reading those documents had ruined baseball
for him._

I find this a bit unlikely. Then again, it might explain why he doesn't have a
job as a bike messenger any more.

~~~
jschuur
On the other hand, he could have just heard about the contents without reading
them at the time, and later read them when they were publicized.

~~~
anigbrowl
He wouldn't have been the first person to read them then (middle sentence).

~~~
icebraining
It doesn't say the first person, it says "the first member of the public".

------
mmcnickle
Am I the only one who found the whole thing extremely patronising? "A homeless
man who could teach _me_ something, who would've thought. I went to MIT!"

~~~
cgoddard
Yeah i don't see what the story was here either. It sort of disgusts me to
think anyone would read this and be enlightened or surprised. If you've never
had to worry about being out on the streets yourself you've led a very
privileged life.

~~~
vpontis
And, that's the point. The poster in the story realizes the privilege of his
life and gains insight into the life of others. You really expect him, at 19,
to understand homeless people when there is so often a sensationalized
stereotype.

About his username, it is absurd that you cannot admit to going to a good
school without being pretentious. The classic example is how Harvard students
say where they go to school, "in Boston". Hiding information about your
successes because they might impress people is much more pretentious than
making a username "MIT_Hacker".

Think before you attack people.

------
ivasilov
I lived in the Tenderloin for 3 months during the past summer, one block from
the shelter on Polk st. I've had conversations with numerous homeless people
(while waiting for a bus) and all of them had an interesting story to tell
(whether it's true or not, that's another issue). What really struck me was
that every homeless is homeless by his own choice. They have families (which
could help them) and money and yet they choose to sleep on the street. I've
never had an incident with any of them.

One thing I didn't noticed until I moved out is that Tenderloin really teaches
you to be humble. I would recommend anyone considering to start the next
(insert buzzword here) startup to spend a month living in Tenderloin. You'll
learn a lot about real-life problems, not just 1st world problems.

------
guynamedloren
I like this story.

But this part baffles me: he 'wants to be his own man', so he won't work for
somebody else. Instead, he doesn't work _at all_ and accepts money from
strangers... and somehow that is better and more prideful than working for
somebody else?

~~~
cgoddard
Getting employed and staying employed when you're homeless is a lot more
difficult. Psychiatric and substance abuse problems don't help either; even if
you're a homeless person and lucky enough not to be struggling with one of
those, jobs available are often patronizing and demeaning (shit jobs).

------
bambax
Why be surprised that a homeless person knows a lot of things. Many homeless
people are not "losers" -- they're winners of sorts.

Not winners in the sense of being successful or in control of one's destiny,
of course, but in the sense of being slave to no one and fooled by no
ideology. They're real-life Diogenes.

~~~
sopooneo
I am surprised by this view. Most homeless people I've met who would not jump
at the chance for a decent place to live are either mentally ill, addicted to
something, or both. The other kind, the middle class kid having a time of
exploration I don't really consider homeless. I think it's a wonderful thing
to do, but is a very different situation.

------
joshma
A good anecdote re: the value in (not being afraid of) striking up
conversations with strangers. I think a lot of people, myself included, have a
tendency to shy away from such encounters - ask the right questions, and you
can get really interesting stories.

On the other hand, the man's comment about "wanting to be his own man" got me
thinking about doing startups for the sake of not working at a large company.
While it's probably a nice touch, I think I'm getting more cautious about
letting that be a determining factor.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
This is exactly what I was thinking. I was angry for myself that for the first
30 seconds of the conversation I could feel adrenaline pumping and my heart
racing.

In regards to your second point, I worried that I saw that same aspect in
myself :)

------
Comrade
I am glad you had a positive experience with The Tenderloin. I had quite the
opposite experience: I was nearly attacked.

He was spouting off stuff like "Stupid Americans!" and saying he was not
afraid to get sued and that he would just return to his home country. Needless
to say, I was pretty terrified. This dude was scary, and my friend (SF local)
warned me about The Tenderloin.

Anyhow, I think it's great that you met such a positive and interesting
character in one of the most unlikely places.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
I've been biking through the Tenderloin for the last couple of weeks since I
started at Square. I've always been really scared as I bike through and have
had a decent number of people yell at me. This was quite the opposite of that
:)

~~~
Comrade
I gathered it's mostly OK during the day. We were (stupidly) walking around at
2am after a night out.

Tourists. ;)

~~~
potatolicious
The TL is terrifying when there's no one else around except some ne'er-do-
wells. Anything goes in that situation. Where it's busy it's usually just
unpleasant, running the Tenderloin gauntlet of a million aromas (the more
belligerent cousin of the Mission gauntlet of a thousand aromas).

During the day time I'd be more concerned about stepping in human excrement or
rivers of piss. In fact, walking to the BART tonight from the Tenderloin I
dodged 3 piles of human shit and near-missed another.

The Tenderloin and Twitterloin are blights on this fair city, and its toxic
presence is oppressively pervasive if you spend any amount of time downtown
(or even further out, like Hayes Valley and the Castro). It's a startling
example of complete public policy failure at all levels of government.

------
Confusion

      and found that my hand-pump was made for a different valve
      than on my tire.
    

With all handpumps I know, you can unscrew that top part and reverse it, so it
fits the two most common kinds of valve (of which I don't know how you call
them in English).

~~~
MIT_Hacker
I didn't know about this! This is was my first-ever hand-pump

~~~
pgrote
Don't feel stupid. The same thing happened to me in the middle of a planned 50
mile ride. I was sitting on the side of the road, bike upside down trying to
watch a Youtube video from the pump maker on how to inflate my tires. Never
once did they mention flipping it around ... they sort of assumed everyone
knew that.

It is a great lesson to remember when designing software. Not everyone has the
base knowledge we assume.

------
brettcvz
Interesting - if only he had square, you wouldn't have needed to go to the ATM

~~~
MIT_Hacker
For a second I thought about signing him up on the spot. At one point during
the conversation I did walk him through the entire payment flow of the Square
app. That's what got us on the topic of humanizing computers!

~~~
Daegalus
This just gave me a thought that could potentially be great but also scary at
the same time.

What if homeless people signed up for square? They will now be able to accept
Credit Cards. As people don't carry cash anymore, the common thing people say
is "I don't carry cash." because they don't, but then he whips out a device
with square and says "No problem, I accept Credit Cards too!"

Though, getting an Android or iOS device plus be near Wifi or pay for cell
service and have a bank account. Sounds a bit tough to set it all up for a
homeless person.

Great story, btw. Sounds like you met a nice guy. Most of the Homeless I run
into in SF are pretty nuts.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
This was actually the first thing that occurred to me as we got talking. I
then realized it wouldn't really work since he probably doesn't have an active
bank account to receive the money.

I'd love the day when there are beggars using Square. It would mean that our
designs are simple enough for a homeless person to use!

~~~
ejfox
Dude, I really liked the story. I'm glad you wrote it and had this experience.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt while reading the comments, but your
phrase "It would mean that our designs are simple enough for a homeless person
to use!" really, really, REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Whether you notice it
or not, whether you intend it or not, you are sounding incredibly patronizing
to other human beings. It makes you sound sheltered and ignorant. Both in the
way you phrase your story (Homeless people can be interesting?!?!) and in this
concept that designs would need to be "simple" or someone who is homeless to
use.

I suggest spending a LOT more time outside talking to strangers if you think
you need to "simplify" things for homeless people. Talking to and helping a
homeless person does not make for a blog post in my life, and many other
people's lives.

Imagine replacing "homeless" for any other adjective. "It would mean our
designs are simple enough an asian to use!" "It would mean our designs are
simple enough an MIT student could use it!"

It's offensive.

------
youssefsarhan
"here I was being schooled by a homeless person". Get off your fucking high
horse.

Nice story otherwise.

~~~
TheSOB88
This experience is part of the process that will get him off his "fucking"
high horse.

Why blame a person's ignorance on the person, rather than their upbringing?
Ignorance has to be resolved somehow.

------
rayyy
congrats, you helped a homeless guy buy drugs.

------
DanBC
> _I asked him how he knew to reconfigure bike pumps_

This is the most interesting part of the story.

Why do smart people come to weird conclusions such as "I have the wrong pump"
rather than "This pump has a simple tweak to work with both popular valve
types"?

And then "This was not obvious to me, and thus it is an obscure piece of
knowledge, so anyone who does know it must have some weird experience" when
really anyone who's used a bike pump knows this, especially if they've read
the box.

------
kdsudac
The most unbelievable part of your story: you didn't know how to use your
_own_ bike pump! From your description it sounds like a pretty common design.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
It was the valve on the pump. Made for mountain bikes rather than my street
bike and it was the first time I had to use it.

------
Mz
I am homeless and pretty open about that fact, as well as the expensive
medical drama which led to my current situation. I am kind of offended. This
piece sort of sounds like "wow, homeless people are actually human and once
had a life off the street. Whoda thunk! (pat self on back for being so
humane)"

Replace "homeless" with black, gay or similar words and see how you feel about
announcing they are human and everything.

------
dabeeeenster
Is this satire?

~~~
MIT_Hacker
Is this real life? Yes, yes it is.

~~~
jdale27
Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality..

Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see...

~~~
coolnow
This isn't reddit.

------
aniketpant
I really enjoyed the encounter.

It really makes one think about so many things. Who would have thought that a
homeless guy would know about Square and even after that, you would be in a
conversation with him about interface design.

If that guy has a good understanding of design by chance, I really think that
he can actually do well in the industry :) [Just a thought]

~~~
MIT_Hacker
I'll put him through the design loop @Square :P

------
DividesByZero
I enjoyed this story, even though I'm unsure about the message I should take
away, it does make me think.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
This experience really made me step back and think about humanizing design.

It also got me thinking about stereotypes and the way I classify people as I
walk down the street.

~~~
DividesByZero
Is it really about humanising design? The man's expert knowledge came from
very specific experience - despite the fact that you're a long time bike
rider, he still had many tips and tricks to show you that you were unaware of.

Maybe the real lesson is that good design comes from experience more than
theory?

------
steinhmr
Thank you for reminding us to be open to the unexpected. Life is a beautiful
gift and so often I live in my "shell." I am sure I have missed many
opportunities to meet the Larries of the world--thank you for the reminder to
be present.

------
dushra
"I’ve been riding since I was 12 years old and have done several long-distance
rides. Here I was getting schooled by a homeless person."

How is his being homeless related to his knowledge of bikes?

------
djvv
This reminds me of last year when I had a chat with a homeless professor in
mountain view. He knew way more geography than the average person.

------
machbio
The story seems to be untrue.. though there were no details of any design
principles they talked about..

~~~
vpontis
Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction. And I think the experience and re-
thinking interactions is more important than the specific design principles
they talked about. In addition it shows how interface design is universal and
how one can gain insight from even the most unlikely sources.

------
feralmoan
$100 for some TL crackhead giving $5 worth of service? Homeless guy clearly
had you figured out.

------
jhuckestein
This is great, I just bought a hand pump and found it didn't work on my bike!

~~~
MIT_Hacker
Ask a homeless guy how to fix it! Turns out most handpumps are reversible :)

------
tagx
I had a similar experience with someone in Palo Alto last summer. Good stuff

------
keville
OP's nick is "MIT Hacker" and he never disassembled his bike pump?

Revoke that handle, STAT!

------
derpmeister
The site is ybombinator'd, is there a mirror?

~~~
MIT_Hacker
I think I got it back up? Scaled instantly on heroku :)

~~~
jrockway
You needed to "scale" a static page?

~~~
MIT_Hacker
It's actually loading dynamically from tumblr. I should probably implement
some caching onto the site

------
karatekidd32v
I know OP in real life. Class of '15!

------
abalone
You must be new here.

------
wilfra
I'm sure he was a really smart guy with an interesting story but you sound a
bit naive in believing everything he said i.e. about the Bonds papers and his
tours and all of that. Likely a lot of exaggeration, some straight bullshit
and a little bit of truth.

Great story though. And kudos to dropping a c-note on him. Giving a lot to
them rarely is far better than $2 here and there, which will likely just go to
beer or a small meal. $100 they can actually do something important with.

~~~
MIT_Hacker
You know, I thought about this throughout the entire encounter. I wasn't sure
if I could believe any of his stories. He seemed so genuine and so excited
throughout the conversation that I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

In terms of how much money I gave him, I decided that $100 was probably the
minimum amount that could actually help him pursue the idea and as a college
intern, I'm not sure I could have spared much more!

~~~
chmike
What are the odds that such guy would be given a chance to share a piece of
himself like he did ? I really don't think the OP was naive. I think there
should be more people like him.

Y Combinator gave a chance to people who would never have a chance at seed
investors or Angle investors. It appeared that YC found few very valuable gems
though. Surprised ? You shouldn't because seed investors and Angel investors
have strong bias to what a high potential candidate or project would look
like.

I assume we have a similar strong bias regarding homeless, close to consider
them as hopeless. Though I believe that there are gems in this group of people
as well, that need only to be given a little push and help to shine out.

And as for Y Combinator, people would consider it all normal and obvious
afterward if someone does it for them too.

My impression is that it was a kind of surprise for the OP to discover that he
had a bias regarding such kind of homeless guy.

BTW a bike shop looks like a good long term investment considering the energy
crisis. In Greece, a business that is very flourishing in this strong crisis
period is selling wool ! In Italy they raised gasoline tax so that a litter
cost 2€ (because of debt)! We'll all reach that point soon or later. Beside,
real lean startup founders ride bikes !

~~~
alex1
> _Y Combinator gave a chance to people who would never have a chance at seed
> investors or Angle investors._

Do you really believe this? I think most, if not all, YC founders are capable
of raising a seed round and making connections in the Valley with or without
YC. YC just expedites this process.

------
jsavimbi
Anyone who has spent time in San Francisco, worked in the industry or ever
spoken to a person who writes like that knows the story to be a fabrication.

