
Hacked kinect Brings Futuristic User Interface - dkd903
http://digitizor.com/2010/11/15/hacked-kinect-brings-futuristic-user-interface/
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dkokelley
As far as Microsoft is concerned, 3rd party drivers and applications are the
best thing to happen to the Kinect. Remember the original iPhone pre-app
store? Jailbroken apps paved the way for what is now the billion dollar iOS
app industry.

I don't think Microsoft is planning on running their own app store (at least
not with the Kinect), but like with the iPhone, users "voiding the warranty"
so to speak may usher in a wave of innovation in terms of accessibility and
user interaction beyond the Xbox. Microsoft should know that watching what
people do with the Kinect outside of the (artificial) design limits is one of
the best (and least expensive) form of product-market research.

Here's an idea for use that Microsoft could create and profit from: Kinect as
a remote control for a media center PC. No more losing the remote or replacing
batteries. That one's free, Microsoft.

~~~
piotrSikora
Best thing? Microsoft isn't making money on selling Kinect (or Xbox, for that
matter), they are making money on selling games for Xbox.

How can making Kinect work without Xbox (and even without Microsoft's OS) can
be a good thing for them? If this would let to increase in Xbox sales then
sure, but the thing works without Xbox now, so I don't see why anyone at
Microsoft should be happy about it.

~~~
wccrawford
Source?

Last I heard, someone estimated the cost of the parts in a Kinect at $56,
which is quite a bit less than the $150 they sell for. Even with all the
related costs, they're making pretty good money off every Kinect they sell.

~~~
piotrSikora
Simple Google search will reveal various sources quoting costs at either $56
(parts only) or $150 (manufacturing). Even if it would be indeed "only" $56
for parts, then you need to account for R&D, assembly, testing, packaging,
worldwide delivery, marketing, not-so-small retailer's margin, import duty and
VAT (where applies) and I'm pretty sure it would sum-up nicely to sub-$150.

Also, this is something that I consider "common knowledge" and I cannot point
you to any sources, but for years console makers (Microsoft, Sony & Nintendo)
has been selling consoles for (or even below) the manufacturing costs to allow
for wider adoption.

From what I recall, Microsoft in the beginning was breaking-even after they
sold at least 3 games for given console. That's why piracy is so big problem
in the console world, not only is the console maker _not making money_ , but
they are actually _losing money_ on pirates that only buy console.

~~~
icegreentea
The Wii is not a loss leader. Only the original xbox, ps3, and 360 are loss
leaders. It's entirely possible for the kinect to be break even, or just
barely loss, in which case I think Microsoft is willing to take the hit for
more mindshare/market share.

Maybe their PHB and marketing drones won't get that, but I think their real
managers and marketing people (they have to have exist for the xbox division
to get where they are) are going to see how valuable this is. I mean, MS threw
an entire hardware generation as a loss-leader, I think they'll happily take a
break-even to make Sony look silly.

~~~
piotrSikora
Yes, I completely agree with you... However, my point was that people who only
buy Kinect (at break-even or some loss) without any intention of buying games
or even console, cannot be the best thing (or even a good thing) for
Microsoft, like _dkokelley_ said.

~~~
dkokelley
Reread my original post. I said that the Kinect could bring innovation in
other areas (beyond the Xbox), which in turn could sell more media center PCs,
for example. I imagine that without the drivers, the Kinect would have
remained a game controller novelty at best. I didn't intend to imply that the
drivers would sell more Kinects or Xboxes.

------
burgerbrain
"Minority Report" interfaces look really cool when demoed, but I have yet to
see a solution to gorilla arm syndrome. No matter how good the technology
gets, nobody is going to want to wave their arms around in front of them for
anything even close to "an extended amount of time".

This technology has a lot of potential, but this particular application is a
dead end.

~~~
lukifer
Another commenter called out a use I hadn't thought of: operating media center
PCs without a mouse or remote. Since you only need brief interactions, the
fatigue wouldn't a big deal.

~~~
emzo
Personally, I'd rather tell my media centre PC to change channel with a voice
command than wave my hand at it. Seems more natural to me. I'm sure flicking
through channels would be easy enough with some kind of motion commands, but
navigating to specific channels, how would you do that? I guess you could have
a specific gesture for each individual channel, but even then, it would me
much easier to just say the name of a chennel. Another idea would be a
specific gesture to go to the list of channels, which you could then scroll
through and select, but this is still more work then voice commands. I'm not
saying this technology sucks, I think it's fantastic, but it doesn't solve
every UI problem.

~~~
Dn_Ab
Ive read a commenter here in HN remark on how the Voice recognition of the
Kinect is something that is seriously being slept on/not paid enough attention
too.

~~~
wccrawford
That's because it's just 4 microphones. You STILL have to do the speech
recognition yourself, and that's tough.

The new part of the Kinect is the 3D stuff, so that's what people are playing
with.

~~~
dazzawazza
That's odd, the XBox SDK had a speech recognition library build in to it. I
presumed that shipped as part of the XBox 360 SDK?

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rbanffy
If Microsoft is losing money on every sale, the simplest solution to this is
to stop selling it separate from an Xbox (feasible as soon as the original
Kinect uptake approaches 100% of active game-purchasing consoles) or build it
into a next-generation console.

OTOH, Microsoft could just as well keep selling it. I bet the fraction of
purchases that will end up in Linux boxes is tiny when compared to the part
that goes to Xboxes and generate game sales.

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ThomPete
Sorry but that is not a futuristic interface.

That is a current interface in need of a futuristic application.

------
pilif
What really pains me is that Microsofts response to all this innovation and
geek love is to threaten people working on the drivers to make this possible
with jail.

I understand that they want to protect their investment. Especially if the are
selling the hardware at a loss (I don't know whether they are), but a bit more
open mindedness could be so helpful in getting geeks excited (and maybe
selling more consoles in the long run)

Look at the Wiimote. Did nintendo lose anything as the community began doing
crazy stuff with it? I know of at least one case where the Wiimotes hacker-
friendliness sold a console.

~~~
nlogn
Isn't the obvious solution for Microsoft in the case of the Kinect to just up
the price so they aren't selling it at a loss (assuming they are)? Hobbyists
will still buy them and do innovative things with the device, especially if
there appears to be less risk of C&Ds down the line.

~~~
Natsu
They may also have had plans to do some of these things themselves and the
projects people are publishing could count as prior art, preventing them from
patenting various things.

This is pure speculation and I have no information to support it, though. It's
kind of sad that they appear to be hostile to the notion of people hacking
this nifty device into something even greater.

I don't think they're selling it at a loss, but who knows? Apparently, they've
been shoveling profits around to hide weakness in the Windows division, or at
least InformationWeek thinks so.

Source:
[http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/showArti...](http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=228200850&itc=ref-
true)

