
Urine in Portland reservoir: How dangerous is pee in drinking water? - tokenadult
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/04/17/urine_in_portland_reservoir_how_dangerous_is_pee_in_drinking_water.html
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chimeracoder
If this is an open-air reservoir, chances are all sorts of animals have done
all sorts of nasty things in it already - the only difference is that this kid
got caught.

With an open-air water reservoir, I'd be much more concerned about things like
Dracunculiasis (Guinea worm)[0] than urine. Thankfully, the Guinea worm poses
a low risk to the US due to how easy it is to prevent[1], but it's a problem
elsewhere in the world.

Dracunculiasis only occurs in four countries (and the US is not one), but the
reason it spreads/persists there is due to improper practices regarding
drinking water.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculiasis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculiasis)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculiasis#Cause](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculiasis#Cause)
\- each generation of worms needs a human host, so even if a single water
supply were contaminated, it would not be able to reproduce again unless the
water supply were re-contaminated.

~~~
nhebb
Portland has open air reservoirs in Mt. Tabor and Washington Park. They're
both fenced off, but I do know that dead animals have been found in the
Washington Park reservoirs before. what was surprising to me is that this is
the first time I realized that the water in these reservoirs has already been
processed. I always assumed that they held pre-processed water.

Oh well, at least it isn't as bad as when sewage overflows get released into
the Willamette River every few years.

~~~
31reasons
>>what was surprising to me is that this is the first time I realized that the
water in these reservoirs has already been processed

I don't believe this. If that was true the entire city would face massive
health issues. What is your source of the info?

~~~
ben1040
>I don't believe this. If that was true the entire city would face massive
health issues. What is your source of the info?

The city of Portland says so:

[http://www.portlandoregon.gov/WATER/article/330807](http://www.portlandoregon.gov/WATER/article/330807)

 _A finished drinking water reservoir contains water that has been through all
the treatment steps required by the federal Safe Drinking Water Act and can be
delivered to the public without further treatment. Five of Portland’s finished
drinking water reservoirs are uncovered. Three are located at Mount Tabor Park
and two are located in Washington Park._

The Mount Tabor reservoir was the one in question.

~~~
sukuriant
That sounds like an altogether terrible idea. All it would take is several
birds to fly over the water and it'll have fish in it. And then they'll go to
the restroom and so on. :/

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anigbrowl
Apparently the water commissioner is running for re-election, so dumping 38m
gallons of water seems safer than behaving like an adult and explaining the
actual risk factor (virtually zero).

This epitomizes the flawed nature of our political system. I really think that
we have far too many elected officials and not enough commissioned ones (EDIT:
I should have said appointed) who can be fired or otherwise held accountable.
As I age I'm more and more inclined towards technocratic government.

~~~
waterfowl
"water commissioner" is an elected office? Who knew

~~~
eyeface
Sarcasm? Can't tell.

If it is, then it's ill-placed. A commissioner is someone who is granted a
commission and is _appointed._

~~~
ewoodrich
That's not true. There are many elected positions with the title of
commissioner. For example, Port commissioner, County commissioner, or a PUD
commissioner.

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dchuk
Wait, is this reservoir one of the large, open, lake-like ones? If so, aren't
they already susceptible to tons of other stuff naturally getting in there,
like dirt and bird shit?

What did everyone expect, that the water would just naturally stay clean?

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pessimizer
We regulate by concentration, but the danger would be in the amount of
nitrates consumed. I don't think it would be dangerous for a single individual
to drink the entirety of someone's (type 1) restroom visit, unless there were
blood in it.

edit:

I forgot that urea is what dominoes are made of.

The internet is too big:
[http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v32je16.htm](http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v32je16.htm)

"Four healthy male human subjects received an oral dose of 15 grams urea
(approx.250 mg/kg bw), blood urea rose from 30 mg/100 ml (mean level prior to
treatment) to a mean level of 42 mg/100 ml (range: 40-46) within 15 to 60
minutes. The increased blood urea levels returned to normal after 3 hours.
Fifteen patients with renal impairment, after similar oral treatment with 15 g
urea, showed a rise in blood urea from 50 mg/100 ml (mean level prior to
treatment; range: 26-220) to a mean level of 75 mg/100 ml (range: 38-299). The
increased blood urea levels returned to the levels observed prior to treatment
after more than 4 hours (Archer & Robb, 1925)."

So 15 _grams_ wouldn't be enough to poison a single person with kidney
impairment.

funnier:

"Since urea is a natural end-product of amino acid metabolism in humans, and
that approximately 20 grams/day is excreted in the urine in adults
(proportionately less in children) the Committee concluded that the use of
urea at levels of up to 3% in chewing-gum was of no toxicological concern."

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jchrisa
The people who stand to profit from building underground tanks have been
pushing hard on this one for a while. Locally there is this movement in
response [http://peopleswatertrust.org/](http://peopleswatertrust.org/)

~~~
bitJericho
Pushing for what? Pee in the drinking water?

~~~
cratermoon
Pushing for a privately-controlled water bureau.

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ColinDabritz
Good analysis in the article. Along another line of thought, let's hope its
not especially dangerous, as many animals and birds regularly deposit waste in
the reservoir. Our first instincts maybe 'eww, icky' but the system is
designed to handle it. On the other hand, maybe he was a homeopathic
terrorist.

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brianbarker
Utah relies on mountain reservoirs, some of which you're not supposed to swim
in. That said, some people do. Our water is great. This is beyond silly.

~~~
bencpeters
Not to mention that most of our reservoirs are clogged full of motorboats all
summer...

(another Utahan here opposed to silly regulations like no dogs in the
Cottonwoods when ski areas dump all sorts of petroleum products, animals and
backcountry users are everywhere doing all sorts of things)

~~~
sukuriant
Not electric boats? I've heard of electric boats being allowed in reservoirs,
but not gas-powered ones.

~~~
Raphael
An electric boat would still presumably run a motor.

~~~
sukuriant
Yes, but there's no oil or gas to trickle into the reservoir. I wanted
clarification because the colloquial term for mechanically powered boats is
'motorboat'.

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dmishe
I mean, he's for sure not the first one to pee in there, he just got spotted
:)

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semerda
Oh come on. This is stupid. Drain the whole reservoir! The city of Portland
should also consider animal & ground waste run off.

Geez. Those folks should come down to lovely Pacifica in SF where about 4
major drain pipes sit facing the beach next to a creek flowing into the ocean
while about 100 surfers catch waves every weekend.. me included :P

We should be more concerned about human consumption of drugs which end up
passed by the body and into our toilets.. probably ending up someplace in
Pacifica into the ocean. Ok I think I just gave myself a reason to stop going
there. lol

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null_ptr
Still, where did society go wrong with the knucklehead who peed in the water
reservoir? What causes anyone to commit such an unwarranted antisocial
gesture? Is it disdain for fellow people? Disdain for the city? That's the
same kind of guy that slashes public transit upholstery and smashes public
restrooms - potentially dangerous to other people, and surely poisonous to
society as a whole.

~~~
bitJericho
The same kind of guy that would ban flourine no doubt. Oh wait no that's a
different kind of anti-social.

~~~
dTal
You probably meant fluoride. You don't really want fluorine in your water.

~~~
bitJericho
Good catch. :D

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chinpokomon
Isn't Portland in a drought right now? I know California and Washington don't
have a typical snow pack in the mountains this year so I assume the same is
true of Portland. Considering conditions this year, doesn't this seem like a
poor decision?

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meritt
This is almost as horrendous as someone adding fluoride to Portland's water
supply!

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Ryel
I think the trial-by-media may have been far more dangerous than any health
effects

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orblivion
What if he had a disease?

~~~
anigbrowl
What if he did? The water is already chlorinated, urine is sterile thanks to
the way kidneys work, and the concentration is still on the order of billions
to 1. If you want something to worry about, worry about bird poop and animal
carcasses - if chlorination is good enough to deal with those, it's good
enough to deal with some sick guy's water.

~~~
orblivion
Ah right, forgot about chlorination. Then yeah I agree it's silly. I knew it
would be diluted but I wasn't sure if the disease would multiply in the water.
I guess it needs a host's nutrients to feed on. EDIT: or not? maxerickson
below cites an example.

And yes the thought of drinking bird poop is disconcerting. Does this
reservoir hit some sort of treatment plant or other sort of filter before
hitting Portland's faucets?

