
Researchers claim hydrogen energy advance - Istof
http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_358595_en.html
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mnw21cam
Slightly more information:
[http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_358595_en.html](http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_358595_en.html)

Full paper:
[http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6202/1326.abstract](http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6202/1326.abstract)

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jobu
Any details on what the energy density is of this "liquid sponge" they're
using?

If it isn't corrosive or difficult to store then it may be an option for
large, stationary batteries, but it would be a really big deal if it's energy
density is even comparable to ethanol. Pure ethanol is 76,330 Btu/gal and
gasoline is 116,090 Btu/gal:
[http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf](http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf)

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maxerickson
The editors summary at the Science link says it's silico-tungstic acid.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicotungstic_acid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicotungstic_acid)

The university press release talks about replacing fossil fuels in fertilizer
production, from that I would guess they aren't pushing it as a storage
solution.

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jrapdx3
This sounds interesting. Not real clear about details, but apparently it uses
silicotungstic acid, a common oxidative catalyst. Water electrolysis produces
oxygen, which would be catalytically oxidized to peroxide, binding O-, and
presumably the H+ is bound somehow as well. Later hydrogen (as H-H) and oxygen
are recoverable without further energy input, much as oxygen is released from
hydrogen peroxide because it's already at a higher energy state.

That's as much as I can glean from the paper's abstract. Perhaps some folks
out there can read between the lines better than I'm able to.

I gather the utility of the technology is not so much for high demand
applications, like electric cars, but more for large scale electricity
generation, replacing (or augmenting) current fossil-fuel sources feeding the
electric power grid.

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higherpurpose
I don't think hydrogen has any chance of working in cars anymore, not when
through the combination of solar panels and batteries, cars can run virtually
for free. That said, it's probably good to see research continue on this,
since we might end up using it for other purposes.

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seren
I am not sure that battery production could scale up to 50 millions vehicle
produced each year, without mentioning we will also need to replace a
significant part of the installed base regularly. We can however hope that
self driving car would significantly reduce the number of car needed.

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lkesteloot
Self-driving cars would not reduce not number of cars produced. If anything,
it would increase it, since going somewhere would become easier.

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ceejayoz
Self-driving cars may change the model from "everyone needs one" to Uber-esque
"there's a shared fleet, one shows up when you ask" model.

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schiffern
>Currently, industrial production of hydrogen relies overwhelmingly on fossil
fuels to power the electrolysis process.

Currently 95+% of hydrogen is produced from natural gas via steam reformation
(releasing just as much CO2 and fugitive methane as burning it), which also
uses lots of heat (read: coal). With such an enormous factual inaccuracy, it's
hard to take the rest of the article seriously.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming)

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wmeredith
Uh, coal and natural gas are both fossil fuels.

Edit: As long as we're using wikipedia links for citation, here's the one on
fossil fuels.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel)

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beambot
They are fossil fuels, but extracting hydrogen from natural gas does not use
electrolysis. So the article is factually incorrect, yes?

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wmeredith
Ah yes, I see. I thought you were saying that coal wasn't a fossil fuel and
that's what the error was.

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schiffern
That was a different person who replied, but their explanation is correct!

Furthermore, the distinction is much more than just pedantic. Hydrogen
production from electrolysis (which theoretically _can_ be carbon neutral) is
about 3x as expensive as hydrogen production from steam reformation (which
realistically _can 't_ be carbon-neutral). And I'll give you one guess which
method all the hydrogen articles talk about…

When put in those terms, it becomes quite obvious that the whole operation is
a fossil fuel bait-and-switch.

[http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/hydrogen/basics/producti...](http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/hydrogen/basics/production.htm)

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jstsch
When you have cheap hydrogen it is relatively easy and cheap to use the
Sabatier reaction to produce methane (and capture co2 from industry in the
process). Basically natural gas. Easy to store and handle. Carbon negative.

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3rd3
Isn't there still the problem that storing hydrogen is impractical?

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valarauca1
Yes and No.

Storing liquified gasses is a _solved_ problem. The auto-industry at least has
been experimenting with Liquid Propane Gas for a while, without issues.
Actually most automobiles in Turkey run on LPG.

Hydrogen is a slightly different animal, colder temperatures, and more
_explosive_. We know the materials that will work, we know how to produce
them. Its more of an engineering/production/economy of scale issue then
anything else.

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oillio
Hydrogen storage is significantly more difficult than LPG.

The pressures need to be higher, which means stronger and more expensive
tanks. It also means we must input more energy to compress the gas for
storage.

Hydrogen is also significantly smaller and more reactive than NG. Which also
means the tanks are more expensive as they need to be resistant against
corrosion. Additionally, the valves and seals in the system need to be of a
higher class as hydrogen is more prone to leak.

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revelation
And then of course, since you can not stop the hydrogen from leaking, you have
to make sure that the storage for the hydrogen storage is sufficiently secure.

Can't keep the car in the garage.

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amaterasu
Also the density of liquid hydrogen is extremely low, meaning you need a huge
tank to store more than a little bit of it.

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integricho
How long will it take to put this technology into production?

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yeureka
I hope this makes my childhood visions of ocean floating hydrogen production
factories come true!

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huherto
How would the hydrogen be used? Directly as a fuel, or as a means to create
electricity ?

