

Apple fined $368 million after losing FaceTime patent lawsuit - Suraj-Sun
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/402444/20121107/apple-fined-facetime-patent-infringement-case.htm

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calinet6
Apple will probably get little press for this, but it was just as unfair to
them as the Samsung lawsuit was unfair to Samsung. Software patents (and
ultra-cooperative courts) are a problem no matter which angle you look at it.
It is not Apple, nor Samsung, nor VirnetX (wow that name sucks)—but the
_system_ which allows them to take advantage of patents that needs to be
fixed.

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michaelhoffman
If Apple takes some expensive licks in this system it is less likely that they
will advocate to keep it. I'm all for entities that use software patents as a
sword to be hit hard financially as often as possible.

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kamjam
_Apple lawyer Danny Williams told the jury that the iPhone maker does not owe
money to VirnetX, adding that the company is "not entitled to money for things
they did not invent. The VirnetX technology, if used, is a small part of very
large, complex products."_

That's the line I like the best. Considering the kind of crazy lawsuits going
on between Apple, Samsung et al, I wonder if this can be used by lawyers of
defending parties in their next patent lawsuit! :)

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LaGrange
What makes me curious is whether this lawsuit has anything to do with Apple
never actually submitting FaceTime to the standard bodies.

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ryandvm
I was beginning to think that I had completely hallucinated Steve Jobs telling
the world that FaceTime was going to be an open standard.

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tammer
I read somewhere that the FaceTime developers learned that fact from Steve's
keynote as well.

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LaGrange
Yes, that happened, at least according to one dude:
[http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/05/11/facetime-
standar...](http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/05/11/facetime-standard)

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bobsy
How much time do developers spend looking at patents? If I want to build
something, I will figure out how it should go together and make it. Does a
patent still apply if a developer can prove they discovered how to do it
separate from the person who originally patented it?

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jws
The general recommendation for developers is to not look at patents ever.
Infringing a patent you know about is more expensive than getting blind sided.

Yes, the patent still applies.

As John Carmac (Doom/Quake engine writer) said:

 _The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve
it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be
legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years
ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying._

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vitalique
But on what basis can a developer be accused of knowing something if he
chooses to deliberately deny knowing it? Or, put it another way, is there a
reliable method for a developer to prove that he knew nothing about the patent
in question? Because, if there is such a method, I don't understand why not to
look at patents. Also, if there is _no_ such a method, then again - I can be
accused of anything, so why not to go look at it anyway?

The idea of patenting paths of reasoning is such a nonsense.

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jws
If you are willing to lie under oath for unlawful personal gain, then the laws
will guide your actions in a different manner.

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vitalique
This is not exactly what I'm trying to understand. Is the oath enough (when
we're talking about $368 million)? Will there be no investigation of what I
said under oath anyway? What do you mean by 'am I willing to lie under oath'?
If I'm infringing, but there is no certain (more or less) way of proving I
knew about the damn patents, I am willing to lie. I am _going_ to lie, and I'm
not announcing it to the court, of course.

The whole concept of oath seems to be very weak.

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madrona
How soon until we hit the patent abuse endgame, where all technology companies
lay off everybody but the lawyers and just sue each other into oblivion?

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genwin
Maybe Apple and other corps. should offer subsidized housing in this part of
Texas, to outsiders, with the criteria being that you must be against patent
trolling.

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Daniel_Newby
Flagged. Patent awards are equitable compensation. A fine is a punitive
measure.

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bryanlarsen
Most patent awards include a punitive component, so fine is not a completely
inaccurate term.

