
Interview with Patagonia founder Yvon Chouinard - dsr12
https://www.fastcompany.com/90411397/exclusive-patagonia-founder-yvon-chouinard-talks-about-the-sustainability-myth-the-problem-with-amazon-and-why-its-not-too-late-to-save-the-planet
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wcarron
In some, ways, it seems like Yvon's trying to undo the damage Patagonia did in
its earlier days. Like... some sort of good act to absolve it and him of his
"environmental sins".

But, this is too shallow, and too pessimistic, to be true. YC is a bouldering
and climbing luminary. He put up some hard climbs and boulder problems, some
right in LA (Chouinard's Hole at Stoney point comes to mind, but it's an easy,
fun one). His attitudes have permeated down into the bones of climbing culture
today. It's a "nut up or shut up" kinda sport. Maybe that's why it attracted
him.

As another commenter said, he smithed his own tools and hardware. Little known
fact: the company Black Diamond was created by a group of people that bought
the department from YC/Patagonia as it transitioned to soft goods more.

It's awesome that he's still around, fighting the good fight, trying to save
our little globe. It's awesome that he's transitioning his company to ever
more sustainable practices; and pushing suppliers to do the same. I can see it
in other outdoor gear companies, too. They've seen what Patagooch is doing and
they're jumping on the bandwagon. Sustainability has never been sexier. Just
check out REI's website. They're hardcore pushing these principles, too.
Interesting, too, that the outdoor industries are rapidly growing.

I also think it's great that YC and Patagonia are unabashedly involving
themselves in politics. It's great to see a company...well, "nut up or shut
up" regarding climate change. Glad they're putting money where their mouth is
trying to oust climate-change-obstructionist republicans.

If only they still made climbing hardware. I'd buy it just to see my money go
towards good causes, like getting republicans out of office.

~~~
pfranz
> In some, ways, it seems like Yvon's trying to undo the damage Patagonia did
> in its earlier days. Like... some sort of good act to absolve it and him of
> his "environmental sins".

I don't know too much outside of reading his book (which is, of course,
biased), but it sounds like very early on (before Patagonia was founded) is
when he had a change of heart. Wikipedia quotes, "Around 1970, he became aware
that the use of steel pitons made by his company was causing significant
damage to the cracks of Yosemite. These pitons comprised 70 percent of his
income."

Unless you're talking about something else?

~~~
wcarron
No, not talking about pitons. That was what climbing was. When climbers like
Yvon realized the damage it was causing, new forms of protection were
invented, like spring-loaded camming devices and metal chocks that could be
removed and caused almost no damage.

Him pivoting when he learned is the only thing he could do. I was talking more
about building products from petroleum based fibers and whatnot. Calling them
a "sin" is a stretch, but I couldn't think of another phrase.

~~~
pfranz
Thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure if there was a specific incident where he
changed, but he does seem well aware any company with millions in revenue
isn't without blame. He also recognizes that preserving the environment is in
the best interest of Patagonia.

In the book he contrasts the culture of US climbers with European ones back
then; Europeans focused on conquering nature (climbing tall mountains), while
the US had advocates like John Muir, Ansel Adams, and Robert Frost focusing on
being in nature.

It does seem like his awareness of the long-term damage has been long-
standing. Patagonia started with importing rugby shirts because of their
durability, environmental tithing started in the 80s, and the push for more
sustainable materials in the 90s (with the realization it takes heavy
involvement in the supply chain to carry out and enforce). Along the way he
talks about repurposing old buildings instead (and adopting their quirks) of
building new and actively encouraging repairs instead of replacing garments.

------
hprotagonist
Chouinard has long been something of a personal inspiration.

\- Early advocate of Clean climbing

\- All around dirtbag hero and hardman (numerous FAs in the valley, the
bugaboos, patagonia, the gunks)

\- blacksmith, who made and used his own tools to climb.

\- by all appearances a bullheaded guy on ethics and best practices: “ The
whole purpose of planning something like Everest is to effect some sort of
spiritual and physical gain and if you compromise the process, you’re an
asshole when you start out and you’re an asshole when you get back.“

As it happens, the companies he founded or was involved in make very nice gear
and i’m happy to own an ethically appropriate amount of it. Preferably
preowned, and repaired instead of replaced.

~~~
look_lookatme
Also, avid fisherman and, previously, active hunter and proponent of naturally
raised or wild caught meat.

------
gerbilly
Good excerpt below on interplanetary travel:

FC: What do you think of Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk pursuing interplanetary
travel and Mars and moon colonies because they don’t seem to believe that we
can save our home planet?

YC: [Laughs] I think it’s pretty silly. And not just silly, but it’s really a
shame. The monies that are going to space exploration should be used to save
our own planet right now. We’re in a triage situation. Things are so grim.
It’s World War III. I lived through World War II, and I remember what the
country had to do to mobilize. You couldn’t buy sugar. You couldn’t buy meat.

~~~
jrbuhl
Good thing those companies are private, so that those of us who want to are
free to pursue this venture with money earned "saving our planet right now."

~~~
tryitnow
They are private, but I believe SpaceX depends heavily on government
contracts, so the fact that they're private isn't terribly relevant.

------
bryanmgreen
1% for the Planet is an incredibly positive and powerful collective of
businesses.

If you own a business, please join. If you're an employee, please share it
with your leaders. It's a small cost in the grand scheme of things, especially
for a crucial cause. B-Corp is another group I strongly suggest looking into.

1\.
[https://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org/](https://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org/)

2\. [https://bcorporation.net/](https://bcorporation.net/)

~~~
ajdlinux
I certainly applaud business leaders who are willing to make commitments like
this - though is it just me, or is it kind of sad that in the current business
environment, a 1% pledge is considered ambitious?

~~~
boulos
I think Patagonia actually still does max(10% profits, 1% revenue) which is
where their 1% project came from. For a retailer, 1% of gross can be huge. I
agree that in other industries with high margins, 1% (even of revenue) is
pretty small.

The FAQ says that:

> Our members have given more than $225 million back to environmental
> nonprofits since 2002.

which I think agrees, as that’s under $15M/yr average (though I assume heavily
weighted towards recent data).

~~~
ajdlinux
Yeah, that's a fair point - for high volume/low margin industries 1% of
revenue is quite a bit of profit. I'm much more impressed by a pledge to give
1% of revenue than, e.g.,
[https://pledge1percent.org/profit.html](https://pledge1percent.org/profit.html)
which commits to 1% of profit.

------
drej
I can highly recommend NPR's How I Built This. They have an episode with Yvon,
among many others, [https://www.npr.org/2018/02/06/572558864/patagonia-yvon-
chou...](https://www.npr.org/2018/02/06/572558864/patagonia-yvon-chouinard)

------
rainyMammoth
I love Chouinard and Patagonia. Chouinard is one of the early heroes and
giants behind the rock climbing scene in Yosemite.

That being said Patagonia is as a company that manages to perfectly brand
itself as a sustainable company in order to get all the PR and hype coming out
from it. They are surfing on the climate change and greenwashing wave more
than ever. Yvon has been out of Patagonia's management for a couple of years
now.

~~~
grzm
> _" That being said Patagonia is as a company that manages to perfectly brand
> itself as a sustainable company in order to get all the PR and hype coming
> out from it."_

If a company is doing good, should they be allowed to let people know about
it? Do you think they're doing this for craven purposes only? Or might they be
putting their money where their mouth is and are proud of it? That it might
encourage others to make similar decisions in their own lives, both personal
and business? I'd like to think that people (and that's what a company is, a
group of people) are capable of doing things for reasons other than pure greed
or profit.

Do you fault people for making purchasing decisions based on the actions of a
company in addition to the products or services they provide?

Sometimes I wonder what drives people to apparently only see the most cynical
view. In my more uncharitable moments I think that's because they can't
imagine others doing things because they think they're they right thing to do.
And if they can't extend that to others, what does that say about themselves?

But perhaps it's just that they've been burned too many times in the past.
Whatever the reason, I choose to embrace actions of others that are good. I
believe I'm capable of doing good, and that others can, too. There's so many
things we need to do _together_ , and cynicism gets in the way of us trusting
each other to do it.

~~~
rainyMammoth
You seem to have misunderstood that I meant it as a bad thing: Not at all.

I think that Patagonia is 100% committed to being sustainable because it is in
their value but also and mainly because it is their market niche and what
brings them business. still think it is part of a market strategy. I'm happy
that they managed to combine ethics, value and business. It is of course
extremely convenient for them that being so ethical is also what makes their
business so lucrative.

Most companies don't have the luxury to fit a market niche where the target
customer are the top 1% of the world (like Patagonia does).

~~~
grzm
In that case, I'd shy away from using language like

> _" in order to get all the PR and hype coming out from it."_

> _" surfing on the climate change and greenwashing wave"_

and

> _" It is of course extremely convenient for them"_

These are all phrases often used to signal that their primary motives are
something other than what you are claiming to praise them for. (Indeed, you
say as much: _" mainly because it is their market niche and what brings them
business."_)

Yes, they're a business and to stay in business they to be profitable. What
people choose to do to be profitable makes a difference.

[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/greenwashing](https://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/greenwashing)

> _" green· wash· ing ... expressions of environmentalist concerns especially
> as a cover for products, policies, or activities"_

[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hype](https://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/hype)

> _" hype: ..._

> _1 : DECEPTION, PUT-ON_

> _2 : PUBLICITY, especially : promotional publicity of an extravagant or
> contrived kind "_

------
robotbikes
The HN title doesn't really reflect the article, there's just one answer about
Amazon but it does have some insight into how he is trying to run a business
focused on sustainability over everything else to try to save the planet.

~~~
dang
We've taken that bit out of the title above.

------
blub
The outdoor wear companies have a micro-plastics problem. They tried to fix it
by using other materials, but failed - the products were just not as dirt
resistant or water repellant.

Patagonia introduced in the end a special washing bag for catching these
micro-plastics. The problem seems to be currently unsolvable.

~~~
justusthane
It says in the article that Patagonia is investing in companies researching
making artificial fibers out of plant materials. That's probably the answer.

~~~
mercacona
There’re wool and cotton that are not artificial fibers. Other companies sell
fleece and other gear without artificial fibers using those. May be those
fabrics are hard to scale to Patagonia numbers, but there’re alternatives.

------
janvdberg
Podcast with him, from a few years ago:
[https://www.npr.org/2018/02/06/572558864/patagonia-yvon-
chou...](https://www.npr.org/2018/02/06/572558864/patagonia-yvon-chouinard)

------
natrik
Relevant interview with Yvon -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHS2X-KoN_w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHS2X-KoN_w)

I really admire his philosophy.

------
Hoasi
The company founder sounds cool, and what he says makes a lot more sense than
the general corporate discourse on the same topics, yet his company ends up
selling recycled plastics. Not sure how great that is, to be honest.

~~~
ISL
They have displaced a meaningful chunk of an industry that mostly sells virgin
plastics. They were early pioneers in developing recycled-plastic clothing. I
still have a jacket of theirs made in about 1995.

------
jackgavigan
I highly recommend Chouinard's book _Let My People Go Surfing_. It's part
autobiography, part a history of Patagonia, part an explanation of his
business and management philosophy.

