
After discovering he has at least 17 kids, man sues fertility clinic - close04
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/10/father-of-at-least-17-kids-sues-fertility-clinic-says-he-agreed-to-only-5/
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quaquaqua1
I was conceived in this manner and I only found out thanks to Ancestry DNA.
There's at least 20 of us out there who are in contact with each other. It's
really cool to have so many siblings, and I am very happy to be alive.

It is said to think that my biological father is probably dead. He was
apparently a Vietnam vet who needed some extra money. I'm glad he did what he
did.

~~~
buboard
High numbers though. Do you know why they used ur biological father's sperm
repeatedly? Not enough sperm donors or ... strong sperm (resulting in more
viable IVFs?)

~~~
quaquaqua1
I was told that the mothers were able to choose from a catalog which donor
they wanted to use-- they listed things like race, ethnicity, occupation,
height weight etc. So I suppose that some donors were used more than others.

A lot of us siblings live in the same area so while its conceivable that
inbreeding is an issue, it's probably like a 1 in a few million chance that
you meet a sibling randomly.

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bradlys
I find it interesting that people can even find this information out. It seems
he found out from putting his DNA in but I hear other states allow that
information to be accessed almost freely. It does make sense from a public
health perspective (if everyone started using this service a lot in small
communities). If this guy didn't put his agreement in writing then I don't
know if there's anything he can really get out of it. Wouldn't it just be he-
said/she-said? I didn't see any mention of a written contract.

Somewhat related: I was conceived in Germany in 1989. It's really unlikely
that I'll ever find out any information about my biological father. Clinics
there (until recently) only had to hold some info for 10 years. I don't think
my parents even knew anything about the person - as when I came out... I
looked nothing like my parents and I don't think they intended that. Brown
eyes to their blue. Every facial feature completely different. Olive skin to
their paleness. And this extended to the entire family - I always looked out
of place. They didn't tell me until I was about 24. I wasn't shocked -
clearly.

I've never done any DNA testing mostly because no one can place my race and I
like the mystery! Sadly - I'm the perfect mix where most white people treat me
like I'm brown and most brown people treat me like I'm white. Never got to fit
in - lol. I still have a genuine curiosity but not knowing is all the more
interesting. Your experience of race is mostly what people think you are
anyway.

~~~
tbyehl
> no one can place my race and I like the mystery!

I had a friend in Germany who had dark hair, dark eyes, and a complexion that
always made it appear as if he had a real nice tan. His family and the people
of the small community he originally came from were all similar as far back as
anyone could trace.

Likely some inter-mixing or resettling of tribes a thousand or more years ago.
They're as Bavarian / European as just about anyone, and probably you are,
too.

~~~
bradlys
Do you have any idea where these people are or names associated with them? I
am very intrigued!

~~~
tbyehl
It would be awkward for me to reach out after many years to ask for more
details about his genealogy on behalf of an Internet stranger.

I just happened to live there for a while and thought it worth pointing out
that the people of Germany are more genetically diverse than the stereotypes.
In retrospect, it was kinda shitty to do when you said you enjoyed the
mystery. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

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hn_throwaway_99
The article says he found all these kids through Ancestry.com. Surely there
must be many, many more whose DNA isn't in that database, no?

~~~
Cthulhu_
It also highlights (once more) how scary Ancestry.com is.

~~~
gojomo
Isn't this a non-scary consequence of _Ancestry.com_ -like registries?

It's delivering a value people want – relative discovery – and uncovering
malfeasance, and further may be helping to prevent undesirable incest.

That _offsets_ these registries' other scary potential uses, like the risk of
them being used to disadvantage certain genetic subgroups, or find wrongly-
persecuted individuals.

I would agree that this highlights how scary _gamete donation_ is, when
handlers/recipients may not be trustworthy.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Isn't this a non-scary consequence of Ancestry.com-like registries?

It's gonna be non-scary to some, scary to others.

Plenty of people donated sperm thinking they'd stay anonymous forever, back
before the Human Genome Project was a $1B undertaking.

~~~
umeshunni
If you want to stay anonymous, perhaps they should not send their DNA to an
Ancestry service?

~~~
jasonjayr
Sure, but if a sibling or another direct parent does, your DNA can be
inferred, or close enough to pinpoint you.

~~~
paulddraper
Not really.

If a sibling or parent sends DNA sample X, they do not know what your DNA is.

If someone also provides DNA sample Y, they can know that it is the DNA of a
relative of X.

But...is that really worse than normal life? That's approximate not admissible
in court. And DNA or not you can already figure out someone's associates a
hundred different ways.

~~~
ceejayoz
> But...is that really worse than normal life?

For an anonymous sperm donor, potentially from the other side of the country
decades ago? Absolutely.

~~~
paulddraper
At the point you are donating...IDK all bets are off no?

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dahdum
So far all we have his word that he was assured it would be a limit of 5
people and out of state.

There’s no signed contract that he’s produced, and doesn’t remember how many
times he donated. It was decades ago, he could easily be misremembering
someone saying the “average” donor is used 5 times. It wouldn’t make sense for
a standard contract to include those limits either.

I’m interested where this goes. I’m guessing he’s trying public pressure to
force a settlement, knowing he’d lose in trial.

Also, if it wasn’t a cash grab, I think he’d have already committed to giving
any settlement to those children.

~~~
teej
Do you keep your contracts from 30 years ago?

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xenonite
What if you go on a date with someone who turns out to have the same
biological father?

~~~
glitchc
You get the House of Windsor.

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benj111
What's the situation with anonymity?

If I left a donation, I wouldn't want a knock on the door 18 years later, let
alone 15 knocks.

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intopieces
The connection I’m having trouble making is why having 12 extra kids means he
should get $5m. Does he owe child support or something?

~~~
e2le
Perhaps to punish the clinic for not fulfilling their contract to the donor?
It's a pretty egregious failure on their part. I doubt 5m is going to sink the
clinic.

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dopamean
I dont understand why he cares? Also how could a clinic guarantee a specific
number? Don't they normally implant (wrong word?) more embryos since they
don't all take and that's how people sometimes end up with twins or triplets?

~~~
mmjaa
Why should he care? Because there is clearly a lack of regulation over the
sperm-donor industry. It is _extremely_ dangerous for men to make these
deposits.

A friend of mine made a deposit in a sperm donor bank prior to getting a
vasectomy. Two years later, he met a woman, who he dated for a few weeks
before breaking it off.

9 months later, he was presented with child support demands from the state.
She had stalked him, determined he had made a deposit in the sperm bank, then
specifically chosen his profile to get pregnant.

He is now liable for child support, whether he likes it or not, for the rest
of his life (California, in case its of importance). They didn't have sex -
she stalked him, got artificially inseminated, and then went to the state to
extract money from him. He now has a kid he never wanted, and is resigned to
being a father to the child, even though he never planned it and it was forced
upon him by a criminal stalker.

This highlights just how dangerous it is for men to use these services.
Clearly, more regulation and oversight is required - especially if sperm banks
are making their own decisions about how their resources are applied.

~~~
lalaland1125
Either your friend was lying or he should get a better lawyer.

The relevant law in California states that sperm donors are not legal parents:
“The donor of semen provided to a licensed physician and surgeon or to a
licensed sperm bank for use in assisted reproduction of a woman other than the
donor’s spouse is treated in law as if he were not the natural parent of a
child thereby conceived, unless otherwise agreed to in a writing signed by the
donor and the woman prior to the conception of the child,” states California
Family Code 7613.

~~~
mmjaa
My friend didn't lie. The reason he is liable is because he dated her, a fact
she kept evidence of, in order to present at the alimony hearing. The judge
assumed this was enough to prove his responsibility for the child she then
conceived (without him). That's the crux.

~~~
lalaland1125
This is why you have the right of discovery in court cases. He could simply
show that she was lying by demonstrating that she got sperm from the sperm
bank. (Alternatively, he could have proven that he had a vasectomy before they
dated). Both of those two things leave hard medical records.

Like I said before, either your friend lied or he needs a better lawyer. Given
the story that you stated, the law is definitely on his side.

~~~
mmjaa
He did all that. The judge decided he needed to pay child support anyway. The
rights of the child were greater than that of my friend.

Anyway, he fought back and is now a very dedicated father. He has visitation
rights, and soon enough the childs decision to move in with her Dad, because
her Mom is a criminal, will be ratified in court ..

