
Ask HN: What do you do to avoid back pain? - evex
I get upper back pain when I sit for ~1-2h writing some code,<p>Even when I take breaks and walk or do back exercises, I still get pain when I get back on the chair.<p>It&#x27;s taking a toll on my productivity, I waste all day trying to find a comfortable position to sit in.<p>How do you prevent back pain from stealing away your focus?
======
nabla9
When you sit in the front of the computer your hands on the keyboard, your
pectoral muscles are being shortened, your shoulder turn inward and posture
becomes hunched. --> upper back pain.

If you want just one exercise to do just now it's 'supine gross-leg spinal
twist'
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L41eyPmXhIQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L41eyPmXhIQ)
It's a core exercise for upper back pain and helps neck, pecs and spine.

You gradually stretch until you get knee to the ground and the hand is on the
ground also and you can look at the hand.

You should really get short program 10-15 mins you do daily, but that one
exercise is the best single exercise for upper back pain IMHO.

~~~
evex
Wow, I just done this and my whole upper back started cracking!

How does this fix my pain long-term?

> your pectoral muscles are being shortened

Does this move stretch the pectoral muscles? or shorten the back muscles that
are stretched?

~~~
nabla9
> Wow, I just done this and my whole upper back started cracking

You have had bad posture for a long time.

> How does this fix my pain long-term?

Doing it daily may or may not fix the problem. It surely has fixed my upper
back problems. I do it and just few other back stretches. I also go running
frequently.

The way they do it in the video is not perfect in my opinion. I could not find
the way I do it anywhere. So here is instruction:

Take the same posture but instead of letting knee stay up and hand on the
floor, push knee to the floor and let the hand hang palm upward above the
floor (it really stretches your pec). Gradually you should be flexible enough
to have both knee and hand on the floor.

>or shorten the back muscles that are stretched?

Short time stretching can't shorten muscles. Muscles shorten when they are
never stretched.

Do the following test: Stand straight look forward. Have a pencil in your
fist. When you are standing relaxed, look at where the pencil points. If it
points inward, your shoulders are turned inward. Pencil should point directly
forward.

~~~
evex
> Pencil should point directly forward.

Pencil __does __point directly forward(yay!)

> Short time stretching can't shorten muscles.

So basically what this stretch does is, elongate/stretch the pecs and
extend/mobilize the thoracic spine? (I think thats more than enough!)

------
Kagerjay
Its probably just your desktop ergonomics

Ideally, your monitor's central point to your eyes should be parallel to the
ground. You can slouch in your chair slightly so long as your back is
straight. Elbows should be supported by the desk or armpad. Feet should touch
the ground fully, if not get a foot restpad

If you want to reduce backpain from prolonged sitting / standing, I usually do
deadhangs. Basically a pullup, without pulling up. Also foamrollers on floor/
massageball against wall reduces need to do any massage therapy

~~~
amorphous
I use a tennis ball against the wall, very effective.

------
LinuxBender
I sit up straight when I can. It is easy to end up sitting wrong when I focus
on the terminal too much. I get up and walk around. I take garlic extract
which makes me have to use the restroom hourly and keeps my BP lower.

I walk around the parking lot / complex a couple of times a day and drink
water while doing so.

If my back gets inflamed, I use a topical anti-inflammatory creme (penetrex),
but do so carefully, as it dumps all the buildup in the muscles into the blood
stream which puts a heavy load on the kidneys and spikes blood pressure. It
contains no warning about this.

If things get really bad, I pay a local massage place to walk on me and spend
2 hours working on my back. That also requires drinking a lot of water and /
or sugar free cranberry juice to keep toxins flushed.

I am contemplating a standing desk, but not sure that I would use it as often
as I should.

------
swatcoder
If you get upper back pain _that_ quickly, I'd be most suspect of your
workstation ergonomics. Are you crunching over a laptop?

There are a thousand drawings out there, but basically, you shouldn't have to
hunch forward to work on a computer. Your back and upper arms should be
roughly vertical, your forearms and thighs should be roughly horizontal, and
your monitor should be at about eye height.

Since you're already having problems, treat yourself to the things you need
(monitor, keyboard, desk, chair, whatever) that help you get closer to that
alignment.

And _then_ work on strengthening and habit-training. I'd vouch for Pilates and
the Alexander Technique, but you'll get a hundred equally valid
recommendations. The _what_ is probably less important than the _that_ \-- so
pick what excites you enough to stick with.

~~~
evex
> so pick what excites you enough to stick with.

Great advice!

I've picked a couple of exercises before, but they were too hard that I
stopped doing them.

I set my workspace according to what you and the guys here are saying, and I'm
already feeling way better.

tho a bit sore in the back.

------
tboyd47
You need to make the back pain go away if you intend to continue your career
in programming.

The good news that it's entirely possible to fix. The bad news is that it
takes time and money. I couldn't even type for more than 15 minutes before
losing my breath from intense jolts of back pain, and then I would be in pain
for the rest of the day. Now I code for 8 hours a day again, pain-free.

The answer is probably going to be some combination of ergonomic equipment,
posture adjustments, and physical exercises.

Frustratingly, I've found that conventional medicine gravitates more towards
wonder cures like muscle relaxants, dry needling, posture straps (which are
basically glorified rubber bands), etc. I found the best advice came from
other programmers, ergonomic specialists, and physical trainers and involve
significantly changing the way your body interacts with the equipment.

If you want to have a career going forward, you need to devote some serious
time and energy into this right now. Literally, stop everything and fix it.
It's probably affecting your work more than you realize, or want to admit. Be
completely transparent with your employer, too. They will help you out
financially if you have note from a doctor.

------
redmaverick
I had mild chronic back pain for years. I was browsing a similar thread like
this one on hacker news. Someone replied saying that they took up lifting and
it resolved the back issues.

I took the advice to heart and paid up for 2 months of personal training
before I could change my mind. My best investment so far. It got rid of my
back pain completely.

Also, it improved my posture and body language automatically and also gave me
quite a few unexpected benefits.

------
amorphous
Try the "foundation method". For example
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI)
I started doing those exercises a few months ago and I feel much better. Also,
my posture has improved significantly, I even got a compliment from a fitness
professional who saw me sitting in front of my laptop in a cafe :)

------
nverba
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1luKAS_Xcg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1luKAS_Xcg)

I found this Ted talk helped me with some lower back and leg issues. I don't
do exactly what she demonstrates in the video, but I find focusing on the
'tail out' posture helps a lot. Also regular breaks and going for walks.

~~~
evex
Hm, this tail out thing is very controversial, I've heard physiotherapists say
you should tuck your pelvis.

actually there is this postural issue called APT(short for anterior pelvic
tilt), it looks the same as "tail out", and people are getting a lot of lower
back pain out of it.

not sure if APT is exaggerated 'tails out' or it is the actual 'tails out'.

Have you asked any physiotherapist about this 'tails out' approach?

~~~
nverba
No, this is purely anecdotal. I found that it helped when sat up straight and
adjusted my hips. But, pushing out too far does put a different pressure on
your lower back, and I agree, is just as bad. I think it's about getting the
right alignment for the best support for your whole back.

------
cimmanom
Are you using a laptop without an external keyboard? If so, you have to hunch
over at an awkward angle to see the screen. No amount of stretching or
exercise will make that comfortable in the long term.

Get an external keyboard and mouse/trackpad. Make sure your desk is low enough
and your chair high enough that your hands rest comfortably on the keyboard
with your shoulders down, elbows at a right angle at your side, and wrists
straight. Raise your monitor until its center (for a laptop monitor) or a
point 2/3 of the way up the screen (for a large monitor) is level with your
eyes when sitting fully upright and looking straight ahead.

~~~
evex
Doing this right now, I feel like my back is getting sore!

is this normal?!

~~~
cimmanom
I have no idea if you're doing it right without being able to see.

With proper posture, your back will be nearly vertical, and your vertebrae
stack directly on top of one another with almost no support from your muscles.
You should be able to sit up in your chair and let your chair support your
back (your butt should be at the back of your seat instead of slouched to the
front).

This is a decent illustration: [https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-
vector/correct-spin...](https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-
vector/correct-spine-sitting-posture-at-computer-vector-9357307)

------
Ibethewalrus
Check recent submissions about Feldenrakis method.

I’d recommend exercise and take breaks every hour.

~~~
evex
Here it is

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18316917](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18316917)

Thanks for pointing it out, seems like a good thread

------
ha470
I had upper and lower back pain (and RSI in my forearms) for years with tons
of physical therapy, meds, and acupuncture to fix, but nothing stuck.
Eventually what fixed it all was eating healthy, lifting, and now CrossFit. I
know this is an unsatisfying answer and I don’t know what you’re doing atm,
but for me having a generally healthier and fitter body pretty much fixed all
my chronic pain issues.

~~~
evex
> I don’t know what you’re doing atm

I'm doing weighted exercises for the posterior muscle chain(back, glutes, and
hips), I'm skipping working out the anterior muscles(chest, shoulders, biceps)
until I get rid of this back pain issue.

> lifting, and now CrossFit

I've seen a lot of people fixed their backs by lifting, I'm giving it a try
today,

I know nothing about lifting other than bench presses and dead lifts,

I'm thinking about starting with deadlifts at first until I have a good
posture, and then start doing both deadlifts and benchpresses.

Do you think its a good route that I'm taking?

~~~
abledon
Athlean-X YouTube

------
estilos
When not in work: weights, or swimming, or rowing - something that strengthens
the muscles that you don't hate and will do.

When in work: make sure your desk is set up sensibly and your chair is decent,
but if your back still hurts, stand up and work like that.

------
bsvalley
Quick tips for you: [https://www.nbcnews.com/better/health/5-adjustments-you-
need...](https://www.nbcnews.com/better/health/5-adjustments-you-need-make-
your-desk-right-now-ncna813726)

~~~
evex
Thanks, feeling better already

------
jakobegger
Things that help against back pain:

\- physio therapy

\- Ibuprofen

Things that prevent back pain:

\- any type of exercise (running, biking, rock climbing, anything that you
enjoy)

\- good chair

\- desk at correct height

\- ergonomic mouse/keyboard/screen

Things that are pointless:

\- exercises that you do once and then don't bother anymore

------
DanBC
[https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/lower-back-pain-
exerci...](https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/lower-back-pain-exercises/)

------
akulbe
Walk. Move.

I have a treadmill desk. Walking covers a multitude of sitting sins. :)

I find standing desks alone trade one mobility problem (sitting) for another
(standing in one place). Moving is a _much_ better solution.

~~~
BorisMelnik
yep this - any time I have a meeting that doesnt involve impressing a client
or being in front of a PC, I do it via walking around outside.

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jryan49
Using a standing desk part of the day and weight training worked for me.

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kojeovo
How's your setup? Do you sit hunched over at a laptop? Do you use a monitor
but look down at it?

But in general: proper posture, foam rolling, mobility exercises.

------
auganov
Got a better chair years ago and it consistently works. When I'm traveling etc
the first thing I miss is having a comfortable chair.

------
eastbaydev
i do the exercises from the 30-day Posture Makeover app. I was in a really bad
car accident years ago. My car was totaled when a truck delivering heavy
equipment to a construction site, hydorplaned and rear-ended me. I have had
all kinds of jacked-up nerve damage and pain from it over the years, but this
seems to help.

Also standing up and walking around, even for 30 seconds every once in a while
helps a LOT.

~~~
eastbaydev
oh and one more comment -- i sw that other people posted about RSI. Im
convinced that the number one reason I dont have incapacitating carpal tunnel
is the I frequently switch the hand I use my external mouse with.Try it out,
if you dont already. I also use a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse.
Crunching forward all the time to huddle over a laptop takes a real toll as
years go by.

------
shanecleveland
Standing desk helped me. I still have the option to sit, but rarely use it.
Going on four or more years now.

------
JonSanderson
Stand up desk, walking around, and not sitting in the same position too long
unless the posture is perfect.

------
sunstone
Walking, an hour or two a day, is almost always a good way to keep your back
in shape.

------
k0t0n0
deadlift

~~~
anitil
I was going to also recommend this. Nothing works as well at improving my
posture

