

German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens   - mariuz
http://www.efytimes.com/e1/fullnews.asp?edid=109248

======
keithpeter
_" Lubuntu can comfortably run on as little as 256MB of RAM."_

It can although I'd call it jogging rather than running. It can work on a P3
coppermine class laptop very nicely. However, a stock Lubuntu live CD does not
come with LibreOffice.

Gnumeric is a nice spreadsheet, but Abiword _normally_ does not have built in
facilities for mathematical formulas, or for making drawings. There appears
[1] to be no presentation application.

I hope the City are making some training materials available along with advice
on installing LibreOffice. LO will jog on a 900MHz p3/256Mb _one application
at a time_.

[1]
[https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Setup#Applications](https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Setup#Applications)

Edit: I should say on P4 upwards or a Centrino laptop with 512Mb it will fly,
and run LO fine with multiple applications.

~~~
swah
Quite sincerely, I just tried switching to Ubuntu 13.04 (from Win7) on my
gaming machine (4GB Ram, some Nvidia card that I can play BF3 very well), and
it doesn't "Run" like Windows either.

Chrome is slow to start, videos don't load properly, ejecting the pendrive
fails...

~~~
NoodleIncident
Did you get the proprietary drivers for that Nvidia card?

They can't legally be included in the distro itself, you have to go get them,
which is a shame.

~~~
quaint-
The situation described by GP is so ridiculous that it's unlikely to be true,
which is why I wouldn't recommend anyone to waste their time trying to solve
the mentioned "problems".

I mean, really, why would _anyone_ switch from Windows to Ubuntu on a _gaming
machine_? Just think about it for a sec.

(Videos not loading or USB not working are issues the OEM are supposed to
handle. The fact that someone like GP can't tell even the series of their GPU
hints strongly toward them using a prebuilt computer - yet expecting to be
able to work as their own Linux OEM, which one could argue is more difficult
than being a Windows OEM.)

~~~
swah
(I don't really care about the specific model of the board, because there are
dozens to chose from. But I checked my email, its an Evga GTX650 1Gb DDR5. Oh,
I avoided ATI because of past problems with Linux.)

Why Linux? Because coding (web stuff) on Windows sucks. Expandrive hasn't been
working that well for me, makes explorer sluggish, etc.

Of course I didn't replace Windows - Ubuntu suggests you to install it _along_
Windows (that part works really well these days).

See, the other day someone posted on HN that their Unity experience was bad
because they had used a slow computer; I bought that idea and tried on the PC
this time. (Then I went to XFCE, as usual. Which also failed on me, as I
mentioned about the USB drive problem).

I should have videotaped myself installing and using Ubuntu - its just dozens
of tiny UX mistakes that make me mad.

The problem is that _everything_ has to work really well for a "power user" to
use a computer happily. I can't believe someone that says the
experience/aesthetics of Ubuntu matches that of OSX.

I absolutely don't want anyone to help me solve the problems (they were
examples, there were dozens)[1] which you consider imaginary - my algorithm
regarding Linux on the Desktop is to come back every 6 months and try it
again).

(BTW, VLC works very well, I meant web based videos.)

[1] Small example: When I clicked "Install" on Synaptic, the button state
didn't change until several seconds had passed, then the box asking for the
root password pops up. By that time, I had already clicked it again several
times.

------
saturdaysaint
There are some admirable intentions here, but most of the older people I know
that this would theoretically serve best are infinitely better served by a
light tablet. I want my grandma checking her e-mail and doing her reading in
the most comfortable environment/seat in the house; I suspect this will lead
to a lot greater usage/engagement. And portability means it's easier to ask
for help.

~~~
muuh-gnu
Tablets, like mobiles generally sufferer from planned obsolescence. They are
not meant to be used and receive updates for years and years, like people used
XP.

I want my grandma to not have to relearn to yet another UI every two years.
Canonical has commited to support the LTS releases for half a decade, which,
while not coparable to XP, is for older folks still a better bet than anything
the mobile world has to offer.

~~~
thaumasiotes
As I understand it, XP wasn't meant to do that either; the fact that it lasted
so long was more of a series of mistakes on Microsoft's part in getting a
replacement out the door. I'm happy to be corrected, though.

~~~
yuhong
Even if Vista wasn't delayed, XP would have received security update support
for at least 10 years after release.

------
jtome
Lubuntu is a fantastic choice, I install it on all of my friends' old, crapped
up, virus infested Windows XP computers and it has them running like new. The
interface requires almost no adjusting to coming from XP, much less so than
unity or xfce or even windows 8 for that matter. Throwing away old but
functioning hardware should be a crime.

~~~
jdeibele
Yeah, except that the cost of power to run those machines can be significant.
The most obvious difference would be reducing consumption by replacing a CRT
monitor with an LCD. That should have minor effect on Ubuntu ... today ...
maybe. But I do remember fighting to get a monitor configured a couple of
years ago (before I moved to a Mac).

Are modern desktops more efficient than 10 years ago? Hard for me to say
although Intel has a paper that says that Energy Star and other measures make
a big difference.

Probably the easiest thing to do would be to swap the old desktop for a modern
laptop. You'd gain all kinds of energy savings - LCD screen, automatic
sleeping, etc.

------
hiddenfeatures
Wait... That's what I am paying my taxes for? That's where my money goes?

I am NOT against Linux being more widely used. And I like the idea that the
city uses Linux to save money & more efficient.

But pushing citizens to use Linux is NOT government business

~~~
muuh-gnu
> But pushing citizens to use Linux is NOT government business

Why not? The goverment standardizes everything else, from screws to seat belts
to yogurts, why not stop the crazy update-planned-obsolescence cycle pushed by
commercial entities and agree on a "standard UI" for normal people?

The amount of unnecessary changes in UIs has become unbearably crazy. And
since those changes are forced from all sides, there is no way to vote with
your wallet.

Whoever wants to constantly relearn the same stuff over and over and over, and
today relearn the Ribbon, tomorrow Metro, and so on, is free to do it. But
normal, everyday folks should not have to deal with this shit. Computers are
supposed to be boring, everyday tools to accomplish everyday tasks, not
fashion statements.

If the commercial world is not willing or able to keep computers useful tools,
the goverment has to step in and slow down the amount of changes and prevent
the giant waste of tediously gathered know-how.

~~~
skaevola
Most standards are not set by the government, they're set by professional
organizations. See ANSI:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_National_Standards_Ins...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_National_Standards_Institute)

Safety standards ARE often set by the government, but more general standards
mostly are not.

By the way, the position you're arguing for is literally the opposite of
innovation. Imagine if, after Apple unveiled the iPhone, the government had
discouraged its adoption because it removed people's hard-won knowledge of
using Motorola flip phones. I guess Motorola would have been happy!

~~~
muuh-gnu
> the position you're arguing for is literally the opposite of innovation.

So what? I dont see any innovation here. It is haute couture like change for
changes sake masqueraded as innovation.

Computers have become too important tools to allow a few key players to
enforce a crazy planned obsolescence cycle.

> Imagine if, after Apple unveiled the iPhone

I was not talking about toys.

------
stinos
seems like a great idea, but knowing how older people can cope with change I
don't see this going so easily and nicely for them as the article makes it
sound?

Anecdote: 2 of my family members over 50 years old had XP running with
Office2003. I gave them Lubuntu and it took them literally months to adapt.
For an IT guy it's off course all alike, but actually it isn't. Especially not
if it already took you years to master Xp/Office in the first place.

Apart from that, while I applaud them wanting to reuse old hardware, it seems
most pc hardware lives for 10-15 years max. So I hope theay are prepared for
that with appropriate backup systsems so they can recover all the systems that
will eventually, sooner than later, shut down.

~~~
hnha
counter anecdotes: my 73 year old grandma switched to Linux mint 9 months ago
and loves it. and my 21 year old cousin tried the same and ran back to Windows
after days.

~~~
Everlag
The issue is, for a person as old as your grandmother, learning even the
barebones of how to use a computer can be a novel experience because they have
had a very small chunk of their entire life to attempt it. This is following
having access to many other modern forms of entertainment for far longer.

Whereas, in the case of the young cousin, they grew up with tech like this and
having to relearn something that is basically the same system but with a
different coat of paint and more inconveniences is a hassle.

------
sanbor
I would suggest the Trisquel distro, which is completely free software (it's
officially sponsored by the FSF) and IMHO the desktop is more user friendly
than Lubuntu. [http://trisquel.info/](http://trisquel.info/)

~~~
jtome
Some of the primary things people use computers for are watching flash videos
and listening to mp3s and I would rather people use 99% Free software and 1%
proprietary software than the other way around because someone zelously
recommended to them a 100% Free Distro, which they found unusable and then
switched back to windows. One of my worst experiences when starting out with
Linux was installing Debian on a laptop, when I was without ethernet, because
it didn't come with the proprietary wifi driver I needed, I don't wish to
subject a non-technical person to that.

~~~
tehwalrus
tried this recently on a macbook air without an ethernet port - it's actually
not even as simple as downloading the relevant .deb on a flash drive and
moving it over, as the default .deb will, sometimes, insist on downloading the
actual firmware blob from the manufacturer during the install process! I
refuse to pay for a USB ethernet adapter which I will use _once_ , so I'm
sticking with virtual machines for now.

I agree, normal humans simply don't put up with this stuff - in the end, even
I didn't!

------
jb17
The title is misleading: the city wants to distribute around 2000 linux CDs at
events -- that's hardly making it a norm.

------
lucb1e
Incredible initiative! Where can I donate :)

------
dfrey
2013: Year of the Linux desktop

------
e3pi
Another counterexample of the Hun typecast as being regimented and dutifully
obsequious, and further reinforcing evidence that Jerry is brilliant and
formidable.

