
Cancelling all student debt – giant welfare program for the upper middle class - SQL2219
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/18/opinion/student-debt-forgiveness-college-democrats.html
======
dragonwriter
This analyzes the benefit by a flawed mechanism; yes, _per capita_ , the upper
middle class has a higher load of student debt than lower economic classes.
But the real drag of student loans on quality of life and opportunity is
revealed by ratios like student loan debt to net worth it student loan debt to
income; the people who would have the most weight lifted off of them aren't
the upper middle class.

OTOH, I don't think any of those pushing simple universal student debt
cancellation would be mind limiting any windfall for the rich that would
result ( _not_ exempting the debt forgiveness from income tax for borrowers
above a set income level would be a dirt simple way to do that.)

------
anoncoward111
Can I get a partial rebate for the loans I've paid? I feel like a chump for
paying back $35,000 in under 2 years. Perhaps a tax rebate instead of cold
hard cash in my hand?

Doesn't make sense to punish those who made honest attempts to pay. Also, I
completely support the forgiveness for people who went to scam schools like
ITT Tech and Everest.

~~~
sharemywin
I've been paying my loans for 15 years. And why where at it let's bump up the
social security and medicare ages. So, I can get f'ed coming and going.

And let's do s't about healthcare costs for families because that is something
that's spiraling out of control.

------
skh
From my experience of teaching at a community college for 18 years it will not
be a giant welfare program for the upper middle class. It will benefit the
upper middle class but the ones who really suffer from student loan debt are
the poor students going to college who have no realistic chance of ever
getting a degree. They get saddled with unforgivable debt and it becomes a
lifelong burden to them.

We need a new system. College should be free or nearly so for those who are
qualified to go.

------
isoskeles
I don’t understand why there isn’t something more of a middle path discussed.
Limit the amount of interest that can earned by creditors maybe. I do find it
unethical and strange that we allow 18-year-olds to take out crippling debts,
and I find it predatory that anyone can profit off of this.

However, canceling all the debt messages a big “screw you” to anyone who made
the sober decision of not going to a more expensive school (or not going at
all). Sorry to say, I think it’s unfair given this is the system we have and
we can’t go back in time and undo poor decisions.

~~~
maps
There is a middle ground, it is rolling back the bankruptcy exceptions. If the
burden is too high, let these people bankrupt out of them with the cost of
having your credit/name tainted for years. Bankruptcy seems to be a 4 letter
word no one dares speak anymore but it is the root of the issue here.

~~~
blake_himself
Right - it should be harder to get money for less-productive specialty degrees
in the humanities. Creditors would have to decide whether to risk their money,
and become gatekeepers.

------
slowhand09
Three significant paragraphs from the article-> \------------- Most people
struggling to pay off their debts are not graduates of four-year colleges.
They are instead non-graduates — people who attended college (often a for-
profit college) but never received a degree. They have the worst of both
worlds: debt and no degree. [...] The average four-year college graduate who
takes out loans ends up with less than $30,000 in debt. That typically
translates into monthly payments of about $300 — or about 7 percent of the
starting salary of a brand new college graduate (which is more than $50,000 a
year). Over time, this percentage declines, as the graduate receives raises.
No wonder the overwhelming majority of college graduates repay their loans on
time. [...] A recent Brookings Institution study by Judith Scott-Clayton found
that the loan-default rate for borrowers with a bachelor’s degree was less
than 8 percent. The default rate for borrowers without any degree was a
miserable 40 percent.

~~~
ID1452319
How do people attend and not receive a degree? Are they implying people have
dropped out or is there some kind of course which doesn't result in a degree
certificate?

------
nickthemagicman
This article is so...wrong.

>"The average college grad makes 50k every year."

He's defining 50k as upper middle income? That's not upper middle income by
any measurement or common sense.

And that's the average. Many college graduates or non-grads with loans make
LESS that that.

That's millions of people.

Student loan forgiveness would help them alot. Not to mention stimulate the
economy.

Also, the designation between upper middle income and upper middle class is
important. You may have upper middle income but still be middle class. In some
third world countries upper middle income is 500 bucks a year. That's not
middle class.

>"For one thing, college graduates come disproportionately from higher-income
families. Most of these families don’t make enough to pay for college
outright, so their children take out some loans."

Higher income. Can't afford public school tuition. Pick one. Also, citation
needed. 'Higher income' and 'Disproportionately' are qualitative words.
Without citations and a point of reference they are useless. Is it 1% higher
or 90% higher?

>"Most graduates of four-year colleges, by contrast, are doing just fine. I
know you’ve probably read stories about liberal-arts college graduates who ran
up enormous debts and now can’t find decent work. But they are the rare
exceptions."

Wheres the citation?

This article is solidly in the OPINION piece category. It's kind of
distressing to see that this person went to Yale.and considers themselves a
real journalist but provides no citations to base his arguement. Instead he
seems to rely on qualitative measurements to base his reasoning. It's scary
how rich parents can help incompetent kids reach positions of power in
America.

------
slowhand09
[https://outline.com/nLwL5D](https://outline.com/nLwL5D)

