
Linux on Dex - MikusR
https://www.linuxondex.com/
======
elipsey
I have pretty much given up on the prospect of running a full fledged FOSS OS
on devices that don’t give access to the bootloader’s root of trust, or give
you a userland that works with a kernel you can’t control (eg Crouton). It all
sounds great until you start trying to do actuall work. As soon as you need
anything that’s not provided by the manufacturer software image you start to
notice all the foundational things you’re not allowed to do with your system.

Need a kernel option or module not provided? Nope, can’t build/sign it.
Remember, not all modules are for new hardware (no VMs for you!). Current
version of OS? Distro security updates for kernel? Um maybe if they get around
to it lol.

It kind of reminds me of Doctorow’s thing about war on general purpose
computing.* Like how is it in the interest of handset manufacturers to let you
have a general purpose computer that could run unsigned (by them) code?

To have a real linux distro, you would have to be able to run unsigned
privileged code, but that would make it possible to do all sorts of naughty
things like unauthorized disk encryption, subverting DRM, mucking around with
the radios, etc. You can’t really have have one without the other.

* [http://opentranscripts.org/transcript/coming-war-general-com...](http://opentranscripts.org/transcript/coming-war-general-computation/)

~~~
esotericn
Indeed.

I'm on the lookout for a solid system that can boot a vanilla Linux kernel
(something like an x86 laptop or ARM laptop, sub 10 inches preferably) that
can make phone calls, receive SMS, and has a built in 4G modem.

Does such a thing exist? I'd rather have a crap phone attached to a powerful
computer, than a powerful phone that locks itself down so much that it's a
crap computer.

~~~
nedp
Seems like what you describe is Purism's upcoming phone, the Librem 5.

~~~
kossTKR
That project makes me happy.

Also just looked at their computers that are beginning to resemble an actual
alternative.

I remember another "libre" project some years ago which was very expensive and
extremely clunky, probably because they wanted to use pre ME intel chips,
which it seems they have compromised on now.

Anyway it's good to se alternatives catching up. I am so ready to ditch the
big-data/fashion companies and i think many people are too, if just the design
and eco-system catches up.

Personally i think we are less than 10 years from total dystopia if we don't
create an "alternative" internet, which is actually just the standard internet
without walled gardens, without tracking and with out corporate and state
controlled ID systems that will end up imprisoning us all very soon with no
escape.

I am from Scandinavia and here the state already tracks and cross references
all kinds of data on you from health to taxes to criminal record, just as
private big-data does in the US. Everyone has a state provisioned login card
with serious sec flaws.

We are no doubt headed for china-like rating systems and pre-crime drone
fuelled nightmares.

A large organisation that pushed both free hardware and software for the
masses fast is sorely needed to avoid the ultimate tech nightmare that only
the coming climate/resource collapse can otherwise save us from.

All hail either free private computing or a deus ex machina Carrington Event.

~~~
meko
Let's be honest, it's either socialism or barbarism.

------
i_phish_cats
For those of us who don't have a supported device, there's an android app
called [Termux]([https://termux.com/](https://termux.com/)) which provides a
surprisingly linux-y experience. I sometimes code on my 10" tablet with a
small (60%) keyboard.

~~~
minikomi
This + emacs + org-mode + a heavily customized doom emacs means I can track
money using ledger, generate workouts using a python script outputting org
tables and a lot more. Even worked out how to sync my folder to Dropbox,
called from an emacs shortcut.

~~~
xte
With a free/standard mobile device (that actually do not exists) you can do
whatever you want without limit. Unfortunately OEMs do not want that. And
"this" is another Trojan horse to let people think the can run free software
hiding the details that their software run in a proprietary jail. With enough
time and marketing we will have a new generation of people who find pretty
natural download GNU/Linux from an OEM store, forgotten another piece of IT
freedom we have till now.

------
tinyvm
This is really cool.

I've been looking for such thing for a long time now.

If you have a corporate Job like consulting or something equivalent it's very
likely you are packing an awful laptop with you everywhere you go, a DELL or a
Lenovo or something like that.

DEX opens a door for next generation Mobile Desktop , where you SmartPhone is
also your Desktop Computer.

I really hope Apple does something similar in this area , the new iPad can be
connected to a screen, but the real deal would be using the iPhone with as a
laptop...

~~~
Jaruzel
> _DEX opens a door for next generation Mobile Desktop , where you SmartPhone
> is also your Desktop Computer._

Remember, Microsoft tried this with Continuum for Windows 8/10 and Windows
Mobile, it failed. No-one actually wanted the core of their desktop inside
their phones. People have partitioned off different use-cases for their PC and
smartphones, and the overlap is smaller than designers think.

~~~
gcb0
we still need the pc revolution on mobile devices.

we are still in the mainframe/timeshare stage.

~~~
wolfgke
> we still need the pc revolution on mobile devices.

The PC revolution happened because of very open hardware specifications and a
non-monopoly on the firmware (the IBM BIOS was reverse-engineered by Compaq).

------
wanderfowl
I _love_ this idea. With insane mobile processors, terabyte storage on phones,
external GPUs, and USB-C docking, we're tantalizingly close to "I do my
computing on this device. It's in my pocket with a phone interface right now.
But once I plug it in at my desk with the GPU dock, it's my computer. And
later, I'll throw it in the tablet and use it on my couch."

Backups will need to be good and easy if your main computing device can fall
out of your pocket on the subway, and an OS which is happy doing this will
need to exist. But for many people, this could be a beautiful world.

------
camelNotation
I want a laptop with a hole where the mouse pad should be.

I want to be able to put my phone into that slot, dock it, and use the screen
of my phone as the mouse pad for the laptop.

I want my phone to do all the processing and work. I want the laptop dock to
be an extension of my phone, running something like DEX to make the laptop
experience work. The only thing I want this laptop dock to do is give me a
screen, a keyboard, and maybe extra battery and ports.

Please, someone make this happen. I could use my phone for all computing at
that point.

~~~
solox3
Something like Project Linda then?
[https://www.razer.com/projectlinda](https://www.razer.com/projectlinda)

It is still a concept, but Razer's two phones have been the same size, so it
remains a possibility.

~~~
52-6F-62
That's very cool as a concept. I'd like to see Apple get all over something
like this as well.

Is it just me or would something like that sell like wild?

~~~
icebraining
I very much doubt it. It doesn't run Windows stuff, so it's more of a
competitor to Chromebooks, and those haven't sold like wild (less than 5% of
new sales in 2016). Coupled with the fact that it restricts you in the choice
of phone, and I think it's basically DOA.

~~~
yellowapple
"less than 5% of new sales in 2016"

Given how saturated the laptop market is, that's actually not terrible.

~~~
icebraining
How so? It's new sales, not marketshare.

------
andrey_utkin
With all the ugliness of Android-first computing, I percieve it as a good
thing that major brands are waking up for the public request of native
GNU/Linux UX on mobile computing devices.

------
mr_overalls
> Samsung DeX is supported on Galaxy S8/S8+, Note8, S9/S9+, Note9, and Tab S4.

> * Phones should be connected to an external display to use Samsung DeX.

> * Selected Samsung HDMI adapter/cable is recommended to use Samsung DeX.

> * Samsung DeX using a HDMI adapter or cable is only available on Note9 and
> Tab S4.

\------ So really, DeX only works well (with HDMI cable) on Note9 and Tab S4?

~~~
wvenable
Older phones require the Dex Dock or Pad (which adds HDMI and other ports).
With the Note9, you can plug a USB-C to HDMI cable right into it.

~~~
voltagex_
There was/is a "C-Force" branded hub that was smaller and (slightly) cheaper
than the DeX dock that put the S8/\+ into DeX mode just fine.

------
Jonnax
I wonder what container technology they use.

Also whether there'll be GPU acceleration or just framebuffer.

Can we play a 4k YouTube video out of the box in Firefox?

Also there's two SoCs. In most of the world there's a Samsung Exynos and in
USA there's a Snapdragon.

There's surely going to be differences here. Especially GPU-wise.

~~~
gshulegaard
Since the partner is Canonical, I would speculate it's LXC based. Also since
they are looking to put a whole OS experience in a container it probably
wouldn't be a good fit for Docker which really wants to push single process
containers with no init systems.

------
sigmonsays
Linux on DeX currently supports one customized Ubuntu image (Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
version provided by Canonical) which only operates on selected Samsung
devices. (Note9 and Tab S4). :(

~~~
24gttghh
It also says just before that:

"Only use authorized images provided directly through Linux on DeX. Other
versions or unauthorized images may not operate properly."

Seems to imply, to me, that it is not _impossible_ to run other images in this
container.

------
SeriousM
UserLAnd is doing the same as open source and on any device.
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tech.ula](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tech.ula)

~~~
nine_k
Did anybody compare the performance of this and UserLAnd? The latter is not a
speed demon, for obvious reasons.

------
MrMember
Depending on how well this works it could single handedly convince me to buy a
Note 9. I've been wanting something like this for years.

~~~
MikusR
As this project (then called Linux on Galaxy) was first shown on Note 8, but
now turns out Note 8 is not supported, I'd wait for them to officially release
it and then get a device that explicitly supports it.

------
craftyguy
> Linux on DeX currently supports one customized Ubuntu image (Ubuntu 16.04
> LTS version provided by Canonical) which only operates on selected Samsung
> devices. (Note9 and Tab S4).

A crappy distro on a couple of old devices? No thanks. I'll just wait for the
Librem 5 [0]

0) [https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/](https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/)

Edit: Misread "Note9" as "Note7" (don't ask). Ooops. My conclusion still
stands.

~~~
tehduder9
Note 9 is an old device? What world are you living in? Note 9 will probably be
years ahead of that Librem smartphone

~~~
craftyguy
Oops, for some strange reason I read that as "Note 7".

In any case, in terms of what you are capable of doing to _your_ device (e.g.
running Linux distros, controlling radios, etc), the Librem smartphone is
years ahead of anything else in the market.

~~~
throw2016
This is not about running Linux distros on your phone.

This is about your phone doubling up as a Linux PC and being able to use your
phone as a PC seamlessly when required by simply connecting it to a monitor.
This can be super useful for a lot of users.

Current 8 core SOCs with 4 to 8 GB RAM should be more than usable and its
great Samsung has been trying to make this happen. And there is nothing
'crappy' about Ubuntu 16.04 especially given all distros are the same
underneath. Why this name calling against Ubuntu?

~~~
craftyguy
> This is about your phone doubling up as a Linux PC and being able to use
> your phone as a PC seamlessly when required by simply connecting it to a
> monitor. This can be super useful for a lot of users.

Something a phone that supports running arbitrary Linux distros will naturally
do without having to depend on random projects like this one which try to give
similar functionality by shoehorning a Linux distro on top of a mobile OS.
You're also at the whim of mobile OS 'manufacturers', who may make changes to
the OS which then break the shoehorning effort.

> And there is nothing 'crappy' about Ubuntu 16.04 especially given all
> distros are the same underneath.

This isn't even remotely true. Here's a few ways distros differentiate from
other distros: custom kernel patches (or not), custom patches (or not) for
applications they distribute, package management (!!!), response time to
security issues, support they offer (official, community, etc), upgrade model
(rolling release vs big crap dump of updates every X months).

> Why this name calling against Ubuntu?

Ubuntu does a lot of the above differentiation stuff wrong, IMHO.

------
danans
2011 is back! Meet the Motorola Atrix + Lapdock

[https://www.cnet.com/news/how-does-the-motorola-
atrix-4g-lap...](https://www.cnet.com/news/how-does-the-motorola-
atrix-4g-lapdock-compare-with-a-laptop/)

~~~
codezero
Didn’t that and the Samsung Ativ Q get destroyed by some patent?

------
xutopia
I'm pretty sure that 90% of computer usage could be handled by the computers
in our pockets.

~~~
nine_k
...Except for the tiny screen and barely-usable keyboard.

Desktops and even laptops make sense exactly where phones don't: large
screens, large keyboards, a lot of CPU and battery. This can't fit in a
pocket.

~~~
zeppelin101
This is why Samsung created the DeX docks. You connect your phone to the DeX
device and then connect all the peripherals to the DeX pad: monitor (via
HDMI), and mouse + kb.

~~~
ekianjo
it means you need to have your monitor and keyboard ready in several
locations. at some point if you work on the go it does not make sense anymore.

~~~
wtracy
I expect corporate HR departments to love this, actually. Give everyone
identical cubicles with docking station and accessories. People can be
shuffled around, and they can easily take their devices with their work with
them. Send someone to headquarters for training or whatever, and they just
have to bring along a pocket device and find a station to plug into when they
arrive.

------
pdsouza
Happy to see more efforts to make your phone a PC!

Another option is Maru:

[https://maruos.com](https://maruos.com)
[https://github.com/maruos/maruos](https://github.com/maruos/maruos)

Maru is an open-source project and has been well-tested for nearly three years
now. We've also been featured on HN quite a few times actually.

Speaking of Samsung, Maru already has early builds available for the Samsung
S9: [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maru-os-
dev/YVkUiwuKMRQ/fOQY...](https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maru-os-
dev/YVkUiwuKMRQ/fOQYRB9cAgAJ)

I'm the creator btw.

------
eletious
Would you like to know what I'm not doing?

I'm not spending $700 on a locked-down linux tablet with 4GB RAM.
Unfortunately I don't think I will ever be at a point where a tablet is worth
more to me than 440 double cheeseburgers.

------
xte
DeX, WSL, Crostini, all experiments for a simple purpose: steal users freedom
and offer FOSS code in a proprietary jail to avoid direct competition against
FOSS.

IOW be prepared to find in the next 5/8 years PCs with Windows kernel and
basic userland as a UEFI fw and "Linux" (GNU actually) software available and
offered via Microsoft store. Also be prepared to find mobile devices dockable
with the same offer from Samsung etc. The end of freedom.

That's is a clear demonstration of the need of mandate by law free software
and open hardware: having free software is not enough if we do not have hw to
run it directly.

------
raihansaputra
Honestly, if this works well I might migrate to this. I've always thought the
laptop is an ergonomical nightmare; moving the central processing bit to the
phone always makes sense yet not always possible. There has been mentions of
Project Linda here, but I'd be far more interested in having a portable,
ergonomic, computing solution. I have not found it. The closest one is having
a laptop on a roost stand (which still needs an extra mouse and keyboard). I
think modern smartphones are powerful enough, what they need is a sensible
display.

------
voltagex_
Hah - I thought this was originally going to run on the S8/S8+ but they've
bumped the requirements up to the Note 9/Tab S4.

------
LeonM
What is the reason this works on the note 9, and not the S9/S9+? The S9 seems
to have Dex support as well, can anyone explain?

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
So does the S8/S8+.

~~~
LeonM
But that's a different generation of hardware, I can understand why the
project currently focuses on current gen hardware. The S9+ and note9 share the
same processor and amount of RAM, so that's why I asked.

------
bubblethink
I find the terminology used by all these similar projects (linux on chromeos
too) amusing. Both, Android and ChromeOS run the linux kernel. So it's like
that Yo Dawg meme. On the other hand, MS is even more creative. What could be
a legitimate use of "linux on windows" is called windows subsystem for linux.
Marketing these days.

~~~
danans
You might find the whole business of VMs and containers amusing also, as they
are often running aLinux kernel and up (VMs) or a Linux app in a sandboxed
Linux environment (containers) on top of ... Linux. So the names are pretty
much true.

------
mark_l_watson
As other people here mentioned, something like this for iOS would be nice: an
Apple app that ran Linux in a secure sandbox. I find using Prompt for multiple
SSH shells to remote servers, Raskell (Haskell) and Pythonista (Python) IDEs
to be very cool and somewhat useful - but, having an option for a sandboxed
Linux would be better.

------
jake_the_third
Unless they allow the same kind of control a user can get with normal x86
machines or better, I can't see this being taken seriously by developers. I
can't see developers jumping on a closed, locked-down platform other than
apple's (and even those folks are starting to get tired).

------
mousecorkkey
I just use an external SSD and take that with me.

It's rare that I'll find a monitor and keyboard, but no PC.

I do look forward to the day when we all have phones that we can dock into
terminals, but until that day comes my portable drive does the job pretty
well.

------
pi-victor
woha, ubuntu edge flashback! [https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-
edge#/](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge#/)

------
pankajdoharey
I hope eventually Apple produces something of this sort, atleast on the
surface it seems they are onto something with Marzipan. Someone should solve
this problem completely.

------
nunodonato
I just want a tab like the S4 with that keyboard and mouse to ship with a
proper linux distro, customized and optimized to it. Would buy it in a flash

~~~
izacus
Something like the Google Pixel Slate, which can run Linux apps?

~~~
petecox
That's a Chrome OS device.

So what is preventing OEMs from releasing a Chrome OS phone which runs both
Android apps and desktop Linux apps out of the box without this Dex/Canonical
vendor-specific solution?

~~~
snazz
As far as I know, the compatibility layer for running Android apps on Chrome
OS is closed-source, which means that any OEM wanting to do this would need
Google’s blessing and access to their source code. However, if there were a
phone that did this, I’d buy it for sure.

------
colobas
I was hoping this would allow me to ssh into my phone to make/take calls and
send/receive texts. Does anyone knows if that's possible?

~~~
voltagex_
Texts are probably possible. (I use Pushbullet, but Android Messages would
also work).

Only Apple seems to have got the control over the stack to get calls through
iPad/macOS. I was hoping that Dell Connect would be an option but it's not
clear that voice is pushed through there.

~~~
int_19h
> Only Apple seems to have got the control over the stack to get calls through
> iPad/macOS.

If you're on Google Fi, you can make (and take) phone calls on your desktop
via Hangouts.

------
j45
Owning the Note 1, 2 and 4, I ultimately left because Samsung is very poor at
updating phones regularly with current patch levels. I was forced to get a
Pixel 2 which, minus the stylus I've been happy with. It still wouldn't hold a
candle to a Note with bare Android.

If Samsung could adopt native android installation, like some LG devices are,
this is an exciting possibility.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
Why not just put bare Android on a Note then?

~~~
voltagex_
I'm pretty sure a QFuse gets blown when you OEM-unlock a recent Samsung. Also,
I don't think "bare Android" (AOSP or Lineage) supports the S-Pen.

------
j45
I was about to get rid of my superbook by sentio and this may have changed my
mind.

Having owned the note 1, 2, 4 and now a pixel 2, I left because of the poor
history of timely and current updates by Samsung.

If Samsung could provide the option of running native Android like LG is, this
would be a compelling option.

------
reacweb
"4GB RAM is required in your device for downloading a Linux image". This
remind me the requirements when I was student: 4MB RAM were required for Linux
kernel compilation from command line, 8MB if X server was running. My PC had
120MB of hard disk. Other times ...

------
z3t4
The galaxy note, and other "note" phones have a "touch" layer ontop the
screen, which make it possible to use a high precision stylus. And the screen
has a lot of pixels already, so you could already use it as a PC. Typing with
a stylus is pretty fast.

------
voycey
I would love for the time to arrive where I can just walk to work with my
phone in my pocket, dock it and run everything I need to in one place on one
device - unfortunately as someone said above the restrictions manufacturers
put on the devices are too hardcore.

------
akhilcacharya
I'm curious as to how well ARM64 Chrome/VS Code/Node.js will perform on this

------
sammorrowdrums
I'm excited by this if I can do basic dev work from just my phone with a
couple of accessories. It might mean for example, I don't need to bring my
laptop home from work, in case of an urgent issue.

~~~
sammorrowdrums
Full disclosure though - I am party of the incredibly small population who
have the compatible phone. I really hope the amount of device support
increases significantly if this works out.

------
esotericn
I'd love to use this, but my 8 month old Note 8 is apparently unsupported.

Has anyone tried it? Does it work anyway, but just "unsupported"? Or do you
get gated at the registration step?

~~~
ReverseCold
I was able to register but haven't received an email (yet). Hopefully it works
on the Note 8 as well, but given that it is mentioned a grand total of 0 times
on that website - I'm not holding my breath.

------
nickpsecurity
Reminds me of Nirvana phone:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_Phone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_Phone)

------
qwerty456127
Looks cool essentially but...

> Linux on DeX currently supports one customized Ubuntu image (Ubuntu 16.04
> LTS version provided by Canonical) which only operates on selected Samsung
> devices. (Note9 and Tab S4).

What a waste. Hardware vendors can never produce a really good piece of
software. If something as humble as RaspberryPi can run fully up-to-date
unmodified Arch I'm pretty sure my Note3 has all the hardware power to run it
too yet they require a super-duper-recent device produced exclusively by
themselves and would only let us run an almost 3-yr-old distro they have
modified.

------
owaislone
I wish they partnered with Canonical to continue their work on Unity8. Would
be great if they could adopt the project and build on top of it.

------
progdown
I'm confused--is this really running a VM on your device, or is it somehow
cloud run or cloud accelerated?

~~~
binomialxenon
It's on the device. I assume there must be some overhead, but devices like the
S9 are several times more powerful than the RasPi, which can already handle
software pretty decently.

------
rzr
Has anyone been able to test it on his/her own devices ? I only touched it in
a showcase...

------
shmerl
Is it running on the hardware with upstream drivers, or it's libhybris based?

~~~
binomialxenon
It's a container using the same non-upstream kernel and proprietary drivers
from the Android OS.

~~~
shmerl
Too bad then.

------
jcelerier
they didn't even bother set up a GTK+2 theme for geany in their screenshot :p

------
luckymerlin
I wonder how long it would take intellij to index my 1GB project on my
phone...

------
fiatjaf
What is Dex? I've read a lot on that page but still don't get it.

~~~
Jonnax
When you plug a hdmi cable into a Samsung phone you can either use screen
mirroring or go into a desktop mode thats designed for keyboard and mouse.

~~~
bepvte
Specific samsung phones, with special docks (I tried it )

------
jyriand
I guess I'm missing something here but I'm failing to understand why would
anyone want to set up work environment using their phone? As I understand you
would also need a monitor, keyboard and a mouse? Isn't it easier to just use
your laptop?

------
1023bytes
Why Ubuntu 16.04 when 18.04 LTS is already out for a while

------
profalseidol
Don't we have foldable monitors and keyboard yet?

------
whydoineedthis
that's cool, but no way I'm giving up the projector on my indestructible Moto
Force for this particular phone.

------
gcbw2
This (and the internet in general) is pretty anemic on details.

Is this a VM on top of dalvik? I assumed DEX was deprecated in favour of ART
[https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/gc-
debug.html](https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/gc-debug.html) I
mean it is still compatible bytecode (i think) but who knows anything about
android roadmap anymore?

~~~
Jonnax
DeX is Samsung's brand for connecting their phones to a monitor and having a
desktop mode.

It's not related to dex/art of Dalvik.

------
amelius
Questions:

Will Samsung have access to my data?

Does this have a SaaS cost model?

Will I have root access?

Can I apt-get install any package, or only selected packages?

