
Show HN: Dating Site Without Pictures - gieoon
https://ohmyperson.com/
======
firefoxd
Close to two years ago, there was a show HN for a dating app posted here. I
signed up, found a couple bugs, reported them, then deleted the app. Couple
month later, I got an email saying that I got a match. Downloaded it again,
had a very nice conversation, but I was not attracted.

I went to the settings, selected 25 miles radius and Black only. The next
match I got was not Black, and over a thousand miles. Now we are married with
children.

I think dating apps all look for a trick, a gimmick, or a twist. We will find
you the perfect match. The real issue is as we get more disconnected from one
another, we don't know how to deal with another person.

Here is what the dating app I won't build will do. It will tell you how to
start a conversation. Help you get dressed on a first date. Help you hold a
conversation. Teach you étiquettes. Tell you what to do when you don't get an
answer. These are all real relationship building tips that dating apps don't
bother with.

~~~
UweSchmidt
I propose a paid service with a human operator who suggests matches and sends
people on appropriate dates. You get one match, go on the date and report back
how it went, and get a new match based on both of your feedback. "That person
was a little crazy" -> get someone more boring next time.

The date you get sent on is engaging and topical: a dance class or a tennis
class or a guided tour in a museum, something that's engaging in the right way
and avoids restaurant first date awkwardness.

~~~
robjan
We've gone full circle and reinvented the dating agency. If technology fulfils
its original promises we would ideally be in a world where people didn't have
"too little free time to meet people" and relationships would happen
organically again.

~~~
SenorSourdough
Is the problem that we have too little time to meet people?

It strikes me that the problems are more related to increased
isolation/individualism, increased distraction, degradation of real-world
communities, and increased fear of making unwanted/unexpected advances. People
who have free time just aren't choosing to use it in ways that encourage the
creation of organic relationships.

------
dinkleberg
I applaud the attempt to innovate in the dating world which tends to be solely
focused on looks.

But sexual attraction is an important part of relationships, so going in blind
is inherently risky (from a time utilization perspective). With old school
blind dates, your date is friend/family selected so some level of filtering is
already done for you.

I guess a good portion of dates are disappointing anyway and there are even
those that get catfished, so it's always worth trying something else out.

~~~
gamegoblin
Potential solution: make photos and text bios disjoint.

That is, imagine a tinder-like app where 50% of the things shown to you are
photos and 50% are bios. But they are all mixed up so you don’t know whose
photo matches to whose bio.

You only “match” with someone if you swipe right on their photo _and_ their
bio.

~~~
Guest0918231
In that case people would swipe on just the attractive users and on every bio
without reading them.

A simple fix would be to only allow users to swipe on 20% of the photos and
20% of the bios.

~~~
sandoooo
I am going to defeat your system by swiping on the top 20% looks and bottom
20% bios.

And everybody else will follow suit once they realize it's an effective
strategy. And you'll have a race to bottom.

~~~
Guest0918231
What's the bottom 20% of bios? "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't
deserve me at my best"? Are you suggesting that attractive people have
terrible bios? If so, you're probably right and it would be a decent strategy.

That being said, it seems silly to try and force people that only care about
looks into caring about bios. Who are we to tell them how to select a partner?
Maybe they would be most happy with an attractive partner that doesn't share
any of their interests. If that's who they want to find, then instead of
telling them they're wrong, we should help them do it.

~~~
im3w1l
He is saying that he only cares for looks, so he'll go for the less in-demand
bios to improve chance of a match.

------
dlkf
Props for building this! The online dating market is a complete mess. It's
basically an oligopoly, and has a pretty obvious misalignment of incentives.
Novel ideas and competition are sorely needed.

As regards all the brilliant psychologists here who are commenting "looks
matter to most people!": it's not as though you will find every person you
meet on ohmyperson unattractive. The issue is that meeting people you find
attractive might happen less frequently than it would on eg Tinder. How much
less frequently is an empirical question. It's worth noting that edited,
filtered, selection-biased Tinder profile pics are not always useful.
Sometimes they're worse than nothing. I've been on a bunch of internet dates
in the past year, and half the time my date looks nothing like their photos.
At least with ohmyperson I won't feel duped.

The problem I see with this model is that it might naturally lead to the
situation where people develop a strong connection over messages and then feel
disappointed when they meet IRL, only to find that they are incompatible for
reasons of physical attraction. This happens sometimes and it's a real bummer.
(It's for this reason that I think you should meet - or pass - after sending a
couple messages, rather than having a protracted convo).

Just as the Tinder model provides a coarse grained filter for looks, I can see
ohmyperson providing a coarse grained filter for interests, values, and
relationship goals. Some apps (bumble, okc) have various filters for these
sorts of attributes, but in my opinion none have really figured it out all
that well.

~~~
chillacy
This is basically what happened when Ok Cupid tried this as an experiment for
one day. Long conversations were instantly abandoned.

~~~
iudqnolq
Can you expand? I'd like to learn more about this. Ok Cupid used to publish
lots of interesting blog posts, so I'm assuming you got that from one, but I
can't find it. Do you have a link?

~~~
c0nducktr
I wonder if the old blog posts are even still up.

After they were bought by Match Group, all those experiments stopped, and the
site became one with the borg. It's depressing that one shitty corporation,
controls every fucking dating site, and has the money to buy pretty much any
competitor at this point.

~~~
disqard
Somebody archived them here [0]

[0]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gwern/comments/aapn1l/okcupid_blog_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwern/comments/aapn1l/okcupid_blog_archives/)

~~~
iudqnolq
Thank you. The one top of chain was referring to was
[https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/weexperimenton...](https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/weexperimentonhumanbeings.html)

~~~
yorwba
That doesn't seem to show that "Long conversations were instantly abandoned."
The graph of "conversation life expectancy vs. normal" vs "where in the thread
the photos came back on" does show a dip in life expectancy of 20%-30% if
photos appeared after just a few messages, but the gap grows smaller the more
messages had been exchanged.

In other words, the longer a conversation had been going on, the smaller the
influence of learning what the other person looked like was.

------
bjornlouser
In 1 month: Dating Site Without Pictures, But With Voice Recording

In 3 months: Dating Site With Pictures, But Only Of Eyes

In 6 months: Dating Site With Pictures, Eyes and Nose

In 12 months: name change to ohmymember.com (adult site)

~~~
mgarfias
13 months: profit

~~~
m463
1 month: sells personal data of people with poor judgement: profit

------
daliwali
Hahaha this will never work for an obvious reason that isn't socially
acceptable to state. As soon as looks get involved, it's over.

~~~
StavrosK
Why isn't it socially acceptable to state that looks are important? I feel
like people are conflating "external appearance matters" and "external
appearance is all that matters" and demonizing the former in their attempt to
ward away the latter.

~~~
crooked-v
Also, putting the "X out of 10" scale aside, some people are just drawn to
certain looks more than others. Tall, short, certain facial structures,
different body types, beards/no beards on men, etc.

------
nikkwong
> "References: He was really nice to me, and one of the nicest guys I've ever
> dated. We had some issues with his parents not liking me, that eventually
> caused us to break up. but otherwise I'm envious of the next person who gets
> to be with him!"

The juxtaposition between dating and references.. doesn't work, at least to
me. I can't imagine actually writing this about an ex. Especially, curious as
to the circumstance in which this type of interaction would even occur. "Hey,
sorry we didn't work out, now can you write a reference for my dating
profile?"

~~~
mirimir
That sounds pretty good to me.

Funny story. Good references from one of my ex wives got me in bed with two of
her friends. However, they didn't want me, just my sperm. But it was still
fun.

~~~
plemer
That’s more of an overt brag than a funny story.

~~~
mirimir
Maybe. But I did say that they didn't actually want a relationship, which
isn't such a brag.

~~~
plemer
I read it mostly as “sex with me comes highly recommended and I have desirable
sperm.”

But if you were looking for a relationship, I can see how that wouldn’t have
felt as...victorious? I didn’t get that context from your original comment
though.

Anyway, good night.

~~~
mirimir
I was lonely. But also way too angry for a relationship.

So yeah, it was bittersweet.

Also, said ex wife was professionally quite awesome, so I think that sort of
rubbed off on me.

~~~
saagarjha
You’re still bragging.

~~~
mirimir
OK, maybe so.

But it's by no means purely a brag.

I mean, what. Divorce. And feeling used. Not fun.

As I recall, one of them was about to leave her husband, but a grandmother had
offered her $1K if she had a kid. Which I learned just after sex.

~~~
55555
offered 1k to have a kid. lol. It took a while to find a funny part but this
will do.

~~~
mirimir
I have a better one. Former lover stops by to say that she's pregnant, and
needs a green card. But says that she's going to tell some other guy that it's
his. Because he can support her, and [unsaid but implied] I'm just another
itinerant hippie.

But hey, dodged one there, didn't I?

------
Razengan
Current dating apps/services are little more than ad platforms; you advertise
yourself to the pool of members they claim to reach, and you pay to have your
ad shown to more people more often (Tinder's Boost, OKCupid's A-List.)

Apparently they actually _hinder_ matches unless _both_ people are paying.
Some of those prices are laughably ridiculous, like Tinder's $40 for a 3 hour
"boost", with no indication of effectiveness, and sadly prey on desperation.

I'd love to see a modern service that aims to meaningfully connect people
instead of perpetually preying upon them for cash.

On the other hand, the dating industry may be like the lightbulb cartel; if
you're _too_ effective, your customers will no longer need you. :)

~~~
burfog
They do need to make money. How would you have them do it?

My preference is a markup on the cost of validating alleged attributes. If you
claim to be 6'2" tall, that might be validated with a notarized statement from
a doctor. If you claim to have a degree, that can be checked via the usual
electronic clearinghouse non-profit that universities use. If you claim to own
property, county records can be checked. All this costs money. Apply a markup,
and that gives a profit that will seem reasonably fair to most people.

Another way is to sell the obvious products, ranging from condoms to wedding
rings.

------
anonytrary
Although the physical component of sexual attraction may not be sufficient
(which is your premise), it is definitely necessary and cannot be ignored.

Tinder is suitable for hookups, but not for dating. Your site is suitable for
friendships, but not for dating. Both of these sites could create
relationships that evolve into dating, but I don't think either of them are
the path of least action for this purpose. Tinder focuses too much on physical
attributes, text-only sites focus too little on physical attributes. Both
solutions are at the poles of a spectrum. "Dating" is somewhere in the middle
of that spectrum.

------
duelingjello
I’ve thought about this a lot. I think it’s important that dating people match
based on relative attractiveness, health, energy level, tidiness,
age/maturity, mental attitude, goals and standard of living.

Also, dating sites should facilitate meeting, not pen-pals or “virtual” phony
“relationships.”

Perhaps a more palatable way to approach this is to legitimately screen/curate
each applicant and rate them honestly so that there’s less disappointment on
blind matching. Also, you don’t what a Philip DeFranco moment of moving to NYC
for a would-be significant other that is actually a 16-year-old con artist in
Idaho.

~~~
octorian
> Also, dating sites should facilitate meeting, not pen-pals or “virtual”
> phony “relationships.”

This. So much this. Above all else.

Playing the whole game of an online back-and-forth "relationship" before the
first meeting is annoying and exhausting. Honestly, it feels like a complete
waste of time as well.

There will be a yay/nay decision made by at least one party, within the first
FIVE MINUTES of that first in-person meeting, that will render EVERYTHING
previously exchanged online to be completely irrelevant. Better to just get to
that point as quickly as possible, and not kid ourselves about it.

~~~
crooked-v
This kind of thing is why I feel like there's an untapped market in some kind
of facilitated speed dating that does some kind of basic prescreening on
mutual preferences (age range, want/don't want kids, general interests, etc)
and sets up events when there's a sufficient 'pool' of people whose Venn
diagrams all reasonably intersect.

------
progval
Although I'm personally done with dating sites, I'm glad to see someone else
had this idea, and actually made it.

But please consider not making all data go through Google (analytics (which
can be blocked) and firestore (which is required)) and allow logins without
Google or Facebook accounts. Sharing browsing data of a dating site with a
third-party should be considered a privacy issue.

~~~
WarOnPrivacy
I get a blank page w/ an empty header. When I allowed google-analytics in UBO,
I get a blank page w/ a more populated header and 2 sign-in options.

I tried it in IE11 (where broken things go) and I get the You Need Javascipt
message on an otherwise blank page.

Guessing this page just can't live in a decrapified world.

~~~
progval
There was an error in the web console that they exceeded their Firestore
quota. They probably didn't provision enough money for hours of being on HN's
frontpage.

------
crca
What’s the incentive for attractive people? Why would you voluntarily give up
a competitive advantage in a highly competitive market? If you’re ugly like me
this is great.

~~~
riversflow
Being attractive brings its own host of problems when it comes to finding a
mate, especially if you are looking for someone you really relate to at a high
level rather than someone who just scratches some primal itches.

~~~
globular-toast
Rubbish. Being attractive only makes things easier. Why on earth would a less
attractive person have a higher chance of finding a soulmate than a more
attractive person?

------
me551ah
Looks are always a factor and some people on this site will find it out the
hard way. Imagine being matched with someone on this website and chatting with
them for a few weeks before meeting. If they ghost you after that meeting for
your looks, it's going to be a lot more painful than being swiped left .

------
undefined_user6
Is it normal to provide relationship history on dating sites nowadays? I would
feel extremely uncomfortable just giving out that info.

------
overgard
Nothing screams romance like a dating profile designed to look like a resume.

------
m0ther
I have a lot of professional experience in this field. If you want some help
refining your system through my experience, provide some method for me to
contact you directly.

~~~
gieoon
Hey thanks, much appreciated, my email is jun.a.kagaya@gmail.com

------
eat_veggies
This UI looks exactly like LinkedIn hahaha

~~~
gieoon
It is!

------
rahulchhabra07
Looks cool.

Supper simple, attractive as is.

Found missing:

\- Qualities the person might be seeking in a potential mate; the existing
user profiles signal that need.

\- The button to go to the next profile seems out of place. Could enjoy more
focus.

\- Completing my own profile could be a little more nudging.

~~~
kitsuac
The site should be unattractive but functional. Gotta drink your own koolaid.

------
swiley
Looks really aren't that important but context is. Dating sites don't create
the environment where this building up context and friendships is possible,
maybe chat sites are better? Although I haven't found an online community
around something I enjoy that _also has lots of women involved._ which is kind
of frustrating.

------
tempsy
It just seems like wasted time if you end up meeting and there’s no physical
attraction. Perhaps something like this would make sense if you only saw
pictures after mutually matching based on something both people liked about
each other’s written profile.

------
Bostonian
People do filter based on education. College graduates usually marry college
graduates. I am married and don't have a direct interest in dating sites, but
I suggest that people be allowed to state SAT/ACT scores and to filter based
on those scores. My wife's relatives looked on her behalf and chose me partly
because I graduated from a famous university. I chose her partly because of
her profession (physician).

The Rick Singer scandal has dramatized how non-academic criteria affect
college admissions. Graduates from HYPS/MIT are on average smarter than other
college graduates, but a more granular filter based on test scores would be
helpful.

------
icebraining
The "without pictures" concept is fine, but why did you choose to model the
user profile after a CV? What do you think are the benefits over, say, OKC's
approach?

~~~
ta999999171
Probably less subjectivity in how to answer.

------
avirajkhare00
This is LinkedIn without photos.

------
anonu
I've had this exact same idea. The difference was there was a bit more tech or
"AI" behind the scenes. You would still upload a picture of yourself. You
would also build a model of what features you were looking for ... Maybe like
choosing who you like better between two different pictures.

Then your matches would be made if both sides had high "similarity scores" for
each other's pictures.

~~~
gieoon
That's a really cool idea, it would be cool to compare profiles (maybe even
using images generated from a GAN like thispersondoesnotexist.com) to figure
out what kind of features are attractive, then choose from a pool of narrowed
down candidates on both sides.

It just seemed like a bit of a hurdle to launch with

------
samat
There is a super app like this called Lex, but it’s for non-straight people
only.

[https://apps.apple.com/ru/app/lex-
app/id1436964232?l=en](https://apps.apple.com/ru/app/lex-
app/id1436964232?l=en)

------
adventured
The little two person icon in the top right apparently generates a random
result. It's very much not obvious what that does at first glance, it appears
to be a user account or login type icon. It needs a clear, random element
indicator to it.

------
crow996
Just thought I'd mention that I was once on a Dutch dating website, where you
could read the profiles straight away, and each other's photos would gradually
fade in (from blurry to clear) for each chat message you exchanged.

------
braindead_in
Just signed up. The website needs a UI overhaul. I think this will work. All
the best.

~~~
gieoon
What kind of UI do you suggest?

------
yellow_lead
From the guest view, it looks like people are only described through their
name, job and relationship history. I might suggest a by-line or other
information on their profile, but understood if it's only available to
members.

------
RomanBob
Dating sites are female-driven, and females select primarily on looks, as has
been shown on plenty-of-fish and tinder data analysis.

So a dating sites without pictures would never work. I hope to be proven
wrong, but I don't think so.

~~~
devit
They select on looks because that's all they have on dating sites.

People (especially women in mainstream society) mostly ignore looks when they
have already had a real-life pleasant interaction; however, it is very
challenging to replicate that online, since it's very hard to give incentives
to be genuine.

~~~
rubidium
No women (and men) don’t. Looks matter. It’s eons of biology that’s too much
to completely suppress. Looks always matter... but the degree can change.

~~~
vonseel
The funny thing I noticed when living in Switzerland and traveling other
European countries is due to the _way lower_ obesity rate, most people are
generally attractive.

The American obesity rate is something absurd like 40% among adults. A bunch
of these people aren't actually half-bad looking if they were able to drop the
weight.

------
lanius
I could see this being popular with blind users. Perhaps prioritize
accessibility.

------
devit
This is awesome, please make it succeed if possible.

Dating sites are simply horrible at actually creating awesome interaction, and
one of the first reason is the fact that obviously looks are pretty much
irrelevant for that, yet most seem centered on photos.

The site is empty for me other than the top bar though, so can't give any more
advice for it.

IMHO the most important thing though is to match people that want the same
thing out of dating.

I.e. if someone wants to have a one night stand and the other wants a long
monogamous relationship they should not even see each other's profile, yet
pretty much all dating sites don't even let you state your goals!

------
idclip
As Others said, sexual attraction is important, as much as i want to believe
in text adventure love, heh.

Simply allow the photo to be viewed after a mutual text-like occurs

------
superqd
I only see a mostly empty web page. Nothing does anything. Just checked the
dev console, and there was a FirebaseError: quota exceeded.

------
nazgulnarsil
Imagine one founder starts a company based on stated preferences, the other on
revealed preferences. Place your bets.

------
scotty79
As okcupid becomes more like tinder I think there's a place now for more
thoughtful dating site.

------
presstumer
I logged in with google but am unable to see any profiles on the main page

~~~
presstumer
I've opened up the console and seen that it's just your Firebase quota being
exceeded. Doesn't seem like a problem at all on client end

------
littlestymaar
Just so you know: the website is totally broken on Firefox for Android.

~~~
gieoon
thanks

------
Smithalicious
Just like how social networks without censorship attract people who say things
nobody wants to hear, this will attract people with faces that nobody wants to
see.

There might be value in a dating site for really ugly people, but it's niche
at best.

------
keyle
Props for trying something new. Also the savings on bandwidth.

~~~
steve_taylor
And easier to seed with fake profiles to solve the chicken and egg problem.

------
fwber
Here is my adult matching site with generated avatars, would like feedback:
[https://www.fwber.com](https://www.fwber.com) (nsfw)

------
buboard
kind of sad that political orientation has become romantically relevant. Other
than that , why not add a bidding layer on top? like, everyone starts with
1000 dollars and bid for their favorites.

~~~
Bostonian
I am a staunch member of one the two main parties, and if my wife donated lots
of money and campaigned for candidates of the other party, that would be
difficult for me to accept. Avoiding a lifetime of political conflicts within
a marriage may be wise.

------
sandoooo
Let's avert our eyes from the tire fires for a second: how would you actually
fix this idea so that it actually works?

Let's define two win conditions, and you have to hit just one:

1\. How to make this actually profitable without being more dark-patterny than
Tinder?

2\. How to help at least some of the people who are not finding what they need
on Tinder, while expending only a reasonable amount of resources?

