

Google engineers: We're trying to fix Android fragmentation - tanglesome
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57584973-93/google-engineers-were-trying-to-fix-android-fragmentation/

======
obviouslygreen
_Device makers and the wireless operators that sell smartphones and tablets to
consumers haven't been able to keep up._

While you could call this trivially true if you assume that this is a goal of
theirs and they are actually trying, I think it misses the reality that
operators don't care, at all, whether your device is up to date in terms of
the OS once you've signed on for your plan.

It would be a very interesting challenge to attempt an OS that could be kept
up to date in terms of base functionality while still allowing carrier
bastardization at a different layer. However, this is a goal that, it seems to
me, would have best been addressed ten years ago.

~~~
kbenson
_I think it misses the reality that operators don't care, at all, whether your
device is up to date in terms of the OS once you've signed on for your plan_

I think it's more likely that they care, but in complex and conflicting ways
that aren't always obvious to the general consumer.

When you first buy the device (if it's close to launch), they probably care
because your opinions inform others quite a bit, so hey want to make you happy
and generate positive feedback.

Close to the launch of a new flagship device, they probably would prefer to
delay updates for other/older models, to help adoption and uptake of the new
model.

Throughout the entire time, they care enough to not generate too much negative
feedback about their products such that it affects the marketplace.

~~~
ianlevesque
Either way its evidence that rolling out OS upgrades to hardware shouldn't be
left up to them.

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cpeterso
Google's "Play Services" library is a long-needed end run around slow carrier
updates for delivering new APIs, but will it be available on non-"Google
Experience" Android devices that aren't allowed to pre-install Google apps or
the Google Play Store itself? Or is the Play Services library a way for Google
to lock Android app developers into Google's version of Android?

~~~
jmillikin
"Google Experience" means that the device is running regular Android, without
some weird TouchWiz or Sense skin. I'm certain the new services will be
available for non-GE devices because those are the ones that are "fragmented".

It seems doubtful that they'll be available on devices that don't have Google
Play installed, because Play Services is part of Google Play. Apps that
require Google Play (e.g. for in-app purchases or license validation) already
need to find some other option if they want to run on devices running
stripped-down Android distributions.

I don't think it's fair to characterize this as lock-in, because apps are free
to use some other mechanism to implement provided features (or just disable
them if not available).

~~~
bryanlarsen
You're describing what Google calls the "Nexus Experience". The parent was
describing "Google Certified" android devices, AKA non-AOSP devices.

~~~
jmillikin
"Nexus" is a device brand. "Google Experience" is a description of a software
configuration. All Nexus phones released so far have been "Google Experience"
devices, but there are also some non-Nexus devices marketed as "Google
Experience", such as the Motorola Xoom.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Ahh, you're right, I'd forgotten about the Xoom. "Google Experience" is the
old name, "Nexus Experience" is the new name they're using with the S4.

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threeseed
The other thing is that there is an additional type of fragmentation happening
on the Android platform: users. Samsung's aggressive advertising has brought a
huge class of users who are less technical but also more likely to buy apps as
opposed to pirate them i.e. more valuable.

Hence as a developer it would be wise to just test my apps on Samsung devices
and not worry about anything else. Likewise if Samsung were to have custom
APIs I would be forced to not instantly dismiss them.

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vy8vWJlco
I must have missed the memo about fragmentation being bad.

However, if the Android folks really do want to zip the stack up (from the
kernel to UI) all the way to a common interface, for example, they are going
to have to start with the kernel in a way carriers seem unlikely to get behind
- namely getting bleeding edge drivers into the mainline tree in a coordinated
way that would make desktop ARM distributions on phones much more likely. If
not, separate houses will just go on keeping their forks alive and maintaining
their increasingly separate interfaces, since the forks start lower. At the
moment, that doesn't seem to be what is meant by fixing fragmentation however.

IMHO, the Android UI should just be a packaged environment like Unity or Gnome
or KDE. It seems unlikely that we'll see a Debian package for Android any time
soon though, but that would be a move in the right direction.

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apendleton
This appears to actually be the chat in question:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5OOJDIrYls>

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salimmadjd
I think at this point it's too late. The genie is out! Fragmentation is a bit
like entropy, it's hard to put it back in order.

The main issue is, the largest Android hardware vendor has no inherent
interest to follow Google. Samsung sees itself as the next Apple and they want
to tackle both hardware/software differentiation to maintaing market
dominance. Unless google wants to follow Samsung, the fragmentation will be
around.

~~~
untog
I don't think it's ever too late. Sure, it's sub-optimal, a lot of people are
still on 2.x, but 4.x has finally overtaken:

[http://www.techspot.com/news/51862-android-4x-installations-...](http://www.techspot.com/news/51862-android-4x-installations-
overtake-23-gingerbread-after-17-months.html)

Assuming Android will be around for many years, they can fix the vast majority
if this issue.

~~~
krschultz
That said, Google changed the way those stats are recorded. It used to be
based on all phones that connect to their servers. Now it is based on logins
to the Google Play store "because they are more active". That's why the line
graphs of version share over time are no longer on the dashboard, because it
would show a big discontinuity where they changed their methodology.

That said, just like on the web it's all about what your users have. My app
has roughly 25% Gingerbread and 75% Ice Cream Sandwich or newer. I hope that
holds, but there really is no way to stop building for Gingerbread even with
the majority on the newer versions.

------
Tichy
Maybe there is a reason for not letting developers talk to the press. This is
not good marketing...

~~~
myko
This is developers talking to developers, at Google IO.

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yoster
With Samsung trying to create their own ecosystem, you would think Google
would be trying to make a Galaxy killer.

------
spoiledtechie
Having a Windows Phone, 8.0. Updates come in all the time from the
Marketplace.

Which in turn updates every thing on the phone. MSoft designed it so that
every function is an app. No need to update the entire os, but rather just the
app. Ive seen updates for Utils and diagnosis tools come in as well as your
regular app.

Maybe its something the Android Team needs to look into. Even though their is
carrier bastardization, it still allows for real partial updates of internal
Android Apps.

~~~
runjake
_> No need to update the entire os_

You're wrong.

[http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/how-
to/wp8/basics/windows-...](http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/how-
to/wp8/basics/windows-phone-8-update-history)

 _> Maybe its something the Android Team needs to look into._

How Windows Phone updates _actually_ work is exactly the same as how Android
updates work: the OS is updated, and these days, the apps (even Google's) are
broken out into separate updates. Google was doing this before Microsoft, so
Google would not need to learn anything from Microsoft, in this regard.

~~~
spoiledtechie
Before you attack me, maybe you should try owning a Windows Phone.

I am speaking from experience. You are just speaking from things you found on
the internet.

~~~
runjake
I wasn't attacking you, I was saying you were wrong -- and you were wrong.

And I actually do own two Windows Phones (one is a developer "HTC Mazaa" unit
given to me by Microsoft after being one of the winners of a Windows Phone
development competition, and the other is a WP8 Lumia) and I develop for
Windows Phone. Has Microsoft given _you_ a developer phone lately?

Seriously though, don't presume to know my experience level.

~~~
spoiledtechie
Not to toot my own horn, but yes actually. I was given a windows 6.0, 6.5 CE,
7.0, and I'm actually currently using the phone the gave me from their
developer conference. 8.0.

seems like there is a lot of presuming going around. I'll apologize now and
say I am sorry to have offended you.

