

Teenager facing terrorism charges for something he posted on Facebook - rpledge
http://cms.fightforthefuture.org/teenager/

======
btilly
This sounds to me like nothing more than an abuse of power by a DA. Those are
much more common than people realize.

As an example, in a recent case that I'm familiar with in Oregon, a man that I
personally know was unjustly charged with 4 criminal charges that the DA knew
were unjustified. He fought. He won. He now has, in addition to a crushing
legal bill, a bill for the time he spent locked up in prison on trumped up
charges?

Why did this happen? Various reasons. When bf unexpectedly comes home to find
his gf having sex with the husband of the house that they're house surfing at,
the upset bf can get the gf to make up a rape case. (The guy shouldn't have
been having the affair, but it wasn't rape.) When said husband is a Native
American in a rural area, the DA knows that given racism and the fact that the
guy was doing something dislikable, there is a reasonable chance of winning no
matter what the facts happen to be.

But in my opinion the biggest single factor is that the DA in question is an
investor in the private jail to which he sends people. When the DA can use the
powers of the state to send people to prison, and PERSONALLY PROFITS from
this, abuse of power is only to be expected. And even when the DA loses - as
in this case - the prison still gets paid. And if the bill doesn't get paid,
care to guess whether a hard line will be taken...?

I have no idea how widespread this type of conflict of interest is. I suspect
that it is much more widespread than most people think (because the people who
run private jails are well aware that getting the DA on board generates
profits). But as long as it mostly impacts poor people that nobody cares
about, it won't be a political issue.

~~~
LaurelCrowned
>But in my opinion the biggest single factor is that the DA in question is an
investor in the private jail to which he sends people.

This is happening more than it should. Lots of hands are reaching into the
private prisons industry's resources (cheap labor). Some towns are investing
HEAVILY in private prisons. The prisoners that are "good" get to work making
products that can easily undercut any competitor.

When a whole county is dependent on a private prison, well, the whole system
in the county has a vested interest in throwing as many people in jail as
possible. Corruption all the way up AND down.

~~~
btilly
Absolutely. The USA is #1 in the world for portion of our population in jail,
and I'm generally not in favor of increasing that. But yet I would personally
heartily support a law to criminalize this type of conflict of interest with
severe jail time. And while we're at it, apply it to politicians as well.

As an example, Arizona's immigration policies were written by lobbyists for
the private prison system, and said lobbyists that they hired have pushed for
similar bills in every state that they can get to listen.

Another travesty is that the people impacted by this become felons and in many
places lose their right to vote. (In many states - Florida being a star
example - this is because Republican politicians did the math and see it as an
easy way to get rid of Democratic voters. Voter suppression is supposedly
illegal, but it has been happening forever and nobody seems to care as long as
it happens to dislikable people.) Thus the people who are most painfully aware
of the extent of the abuse are removed from the democratic process - and those
close to the victims wind up with an entirely rational fear that if they speak
up too loudly about it, they will get targeted as well.

And as Aaron Swartz famously discovered, even if you have reasonable financial
resources, you probably don't have enough to even try to defend yourself
against this machine. Just think of how much worse that is for people who
start out poor!

------
mintplant
> "(Expletive) a boston bominb wait till u see the (expletive) I do, I’ma be
> famous"

> The actual line is:

> "(Expletive) a boston bominb wait till u see the (expletive) I do, I’ma be
> famous _rapping_ "

[http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/05/...](http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/05/teen_methuen_rapper_held_without_bail_for_facebook_bomb_threat)

> An accused teenage rapper pleaded not guilty today to making a bomb threat
> on Facebook he warned _would eclipse the horror of the Boston Marathon
> tragedy and make him “famous.”_

That's absolutely disgusting. The media should be ashamed of themselves for
twisting the words _of a kid_ like that.

~~~
l33tbro
Well, they say that it is China's century. Didn't realize this extended to us
replicating their domestic media model and forwarding the State's interest of
total civilian control. Silly me.

~~~
alttab
Don't worry l33tbro, its a lot less "messy" when pesky civilians can't get in
your way with their own thoughts, agendas, and behaviors.

------
mc-lovin
"Terroristic Threats" are one way that free speech is under attack. Another is
harassment laws.

Law student Anya Bargh was arrested for sending an email saying "Let’s
celebrate diversity by having the next dean NOT be Jewish."

If that isn't protected speech I don't know what is.

[http://www.volokh.com/2013/05/03/law-student-arrested-
chiefl...](http://www.volokh.com/2013/05/03/law-student-arrested-chiefly-for-
anti-semitic-and-racist-e-mail-to-student-government-and-for-offensive-posts-
about-professors/)

~~~
rexreed
In reading the above link, it's obvious that her arrest stems from more than
just that one email, but rather a series of email messages and online comments
that some had claimed were harassment.

That being said, it most likely is still protected free speech, as odious as
those messages and postings were. I think the case will be dismissed, but her
future in law school is probably over.

~~~
mc-lovin
You are absolutely correct that her arrest relates to a number of actions on
her part, apart from the email that the quote comes from.

However, without having seen the arrest report or other documents, it seems
from the news articles that the quote in my post is considered by the police
to be in itself harassment.

Also, to be arrested for protected speech is bad enough, even if the charges
are dismissed. Imagine if every time you held up a banner you could get
arrested for harassement, it took a court case to acquit you.

------
mindcrime
_Cam's facebook and pointing to "disturbing" posts like "Fuck politics. Fuck
Obama. Fuck the government!"_

What's disturbing about any of that?

~~~
Perceval
Man, if everyone who had posted "Fuck politics. Fuck Bush. Fuck the
government!" were prosecuted as terrorists, there would be no one left on the
internet.

~~~
n3rdy
Maybe that's where all the anti-war protesters went?

------
DigitalSea
Wow, this is disgusting. Is this kid really being held without bail because he
posted rap lyrics on Facebook? I feel like we're not hearing the full story
here, but either way given his age and the fact they supposedly found nothing
to support the claims they're holding him on, this is atrocious and I hope
this story comes to light, so it can play out fairly in the public eye under
fair scrutiny.

~~~
adventured
From what I initially read about it, he also posted a video to youtube
verbalizing the rap lyrics.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press will be obliterated under the boot
of the fake war on terror. You've got both sides of the political aisle
working 24/7 on it.

------
D9u
This is on par with a cannabis activist being held without bail because a
Federal Magistrate found the accused to be "a danger to the community."

<http://the-last-marijuana-trial.com/author/roger-christie/>

------
meric
The government should, in addition to this teenager, put Epik High, a korean
hip-hop group, into jail as well.

<http://www.jpopasia.com/lyrics/10708/>

Take a look at these incinerating words, I find them very threatening:

"my flow! I'm a mother f _ckin criminal! my flow! on your TV and radio! my
flow! come and check out my video! here we go everybody say f_ ck the
president! my flow! I'm a mother f _ckin criminal! my flow! on your TV and
radio! my flow! come and check out my video! everybody say f_ ck the
government!"

~~~
D9u
Kindly point out the criminal aspects of the _incinerating words?_

~~~
qwertzlcoatl
He confessed repeatedly to be engaged in motherfcking criminal activities.

~~~
hamburglar
We need to get Eric Clapton in jail for shooting that Sheriff pronto.

~~~
justanother
I'm more concerned about the lady who gave Bon Jovi severe chest trauma,
thereby giving love a bad name.

~~~
hamburglar
That was mere accusation. Clapton confessed.

~~~
nitrogen
Should confessions in the absence of evidence really be taken seriously?

------
protomyth
The Supreme Court case to look up is Virginia v. Black (2003). It has the
definition of a true threat as "those statements where the speaker means to
communicate a serious expression of an intent to commit an act of unlawful
violence to a particular individual or group of individuals."

------
barabaraphil
If the facts on the web site are correct, than this is really something that
needs more attention. One hand you have people looking to hurt this country
which must be stopped, but then on the other you have stories like this. It
seems this would be a story that I think it would be good if it were picked up
on by larger media to either help ley this boy go, or bring up the true facts
of this case.

~~~
rpledge
Too bad it just got flagged to death. HN seems to be getting worse for burying
anything that anyone might disagree with lately

EDIT: Seems to have come back from the dead... :)

~~~
Pinckney
The title is written as if unlawful statements are somehow made legal when
posted on Facebook. The site then goes on to make a big deal about that: "all
for something he posted on Facebook".

Of course statements made on Facebook can be criminal. Threats against another
are not neutralized because they happen online. Neither is a criminal
conspiracy. So the article blithely pretending that this alone should make us
outraged is frankly insulting.

The statements in question don't appear to be criminal, but the submitter
should link to something that doesn't start out trying to convince us of this
with meaningless tripe.

~~~
rpledge
Certainly criminal statements can be written on Facebook, but could you point
out what that is in this case? Should Ice-T have been imprisoned for Cop
Killer?

~~~
Pinckney
Absolutely nothing, which is why it's all the more absurd that the article
pretends they cannot.

------
DanBC
Trying to avoid political discussion and ask something about startups and law:

When you run a site that allows users to post stuff do you have an obligation
to hand over details when the law comes knocking?

What do you do if this teenager posted stuff like this on your website under a
pseudonym, and law enforcement came to you asking for his identifying
information?

Do you wait until they come back with correctly formed court documents signed
by a judge? do you go further, and take it to court yourself? Do you risk jail
time to protect anonymity of your users?

I guess this is different based on what country you're in and what your
product is.

------
westicle
If those are actually the facts of this case, sounds to me like he just has a
terrible lawyer.

For what it's worth I'm not a lawyer in Massachusetts. However in most
jurisdictions I'm familiar with it would NOT be a difficult or expensive task
to get him before a court to test the basis for the charges against him.

The facts are straightforward, there isn't copious amounts of evidence to work
through. Simply interpretation of a statute which could be sorted in a
morning's hearing.

~~~
dmix
It's not the court system post-arrest that is to be worried about. They
usually have rationality in cases like this. Such as the young girl who was
charged for using explosives at school when it was only a small experiment
with a water bottle.

It's the fact he was arrested by the state at all in the first place.

------
rlpb
[http://valleypatriot.com/methuen-police-arrest-high-
school-s...](http://valleypatriot.com/methuen-police-arrest-high-school-
student-on-terrorism-charges/) says:

“We took this very seriously,” Chief Solomon said. “He posted a threat in the
form of rap where he mentioned the White House, the Boston Marathon bombing,
and said ‘everybody you will see what I am going to do, kill people.”

The word "kill" does not appear at all in this rebuttal. Is the rebuttal being
selective in what to rebut, too? Are the police misquoting him? What did he
really say? Why does this rebuttal not cover this?

------
riggins
there was a similar story with an ex-marine last year.

[http://www.nbc12.com/story/19396255/marine-brandon-raub-
spea...](http://www.nbc12.com/story/19396255/marine-brandon-raub-speaks-out-
following-confinement)

Its certainly shocking to see people being arrested over facebook posts. No
sure what to do. Maybe start a campaign to encourage people to post
'terrorist' messages in protest? What can they do with 10 million terrorist
messages?

~~~
dragonikola
Arrest the poor ones, ugly ones, minorities, people they don't personally
like, etc.

~~~
jmadsen
not enough prison space

~~~
dragonikola
Then arrest just enough to fill up the prisons. You think America could ever
run short on prison space? Prisons are our fastest growing form of housing.

~~~
jmadsen
not gonna sit and go back & forth, but prisons are growing because of current
state levels of 115% capacity & federal levels of 136% (
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate)
)

I'd say they are "all filled up"

------
ahallock
So, the kid's flow is weak and he used a metaphor, maybe in poor taste, but
that does not constitute a tangible threat.

Maybe he actually is trying to be like Eminem who made a controversial
reference to Bush that got him a visit from the FBI.
[http://www.mariamagic.com/music-games-media/eminem-bush-
fbi....](http://www.mariamagic.com/music-games-media/eminem-bush-fbi.html)

------
bachback
"I’m not in reality, So when u see me (expletive) go insane and make the news,
the paper, and the (expletive) federal house of horror known as the white
house, Don’t (expletive) cry or be worried because all YOU people (expletive)
caused this (expletive),"

Perhaps this guy is really smart and a political activist?

------
bachback
US turning into lawless police state and even some people even on HN are more
than okay with it. Very scary.

------
mtgx
You should check this out if you have a Facebook account. It shows you the
crimes you're guilty of, all over the world, just for posting stuff on
Facebook:

<http://www.trialbytimeline.org.nz>

~~~
kstenerud
I think it's broken. It's been repeatedly spinning through my contacts for 30
minutes so far, switching between 0 and 10 in line as it goes.

------
edwinjm
"The land of the free" - Unfortunately that's more and more just a dream, in a
world where more and more countries are more free than the USA.

------
hobs
The comment section on the local newspaper article is comedy gold.

~~~
darxius
Which article?

~~~
KayEss
Here [http://valleypatriot.com/methuen-police-arrest-high-
school-s...](http://valleypatriot.com/methuen-police-arrest-high-school-
student-on-terrorism-charges/)

At least most of the commenters seem fairly rational.

------
fixxer
This kid is 100% idiot and deserves some major ridicule, but he isn't a threat
and doesn't appear to have done anything actually illegal. This DA is wasting
time and money, which offends me far more.

I wish terrorists actually did post their intent on Facebook.

~~~
Intermernet
What qualifies him as "100%" idiot, deserving of "major ridicule"? Do you know
him personally and just thought you'd insult him, or are you basing your
derision off one article and a couple of posts online?

~~~
fixxer
Here is his quote:

"F __* a boston bomb wait till u see the s __* I do, I’m be famous rapping,
and beat every murder charge that comes across me!"

You're telling me this is intelligent? You think this is free speech?

The punishment, in this case, should be community service with victims of the
Boston bombing. I'm not saying this kid doesn't have potential, but putting
that online shows a lack of sense and/or empathy. He can learn that while
helping people who have lost limbs.

Prison time is rediculous, I'll agree (as I did in my previous post)... still
think he's an idiot, though, and this is not a free speech issue that I'm
going to defend. We have bigger problems here in the States, Mike.

~~~
Intermernet
They're lyrics. Admittedly puerile and tasteless, but every lyricists from
Shakespeare to Springsteen (and lots of others that don't alliterate as well)
can be accused of stupid lyrics in at least some of their works.

I don't like blanket value judgements of people's intelligence based on a
ridiculously small sample group of their behaviours. It's sensationalist,
reactionary and half of what I see wrong with society.

EDIT: I'd also like to say that you, sir, are responsible for one of my
favourite HN comments in the last few weeks
(<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5702566>). I beleive that made me
giggle while drinking tea, and almost burnt my sinuses :-)

~~~
fixxer
What is more wrong with society, in my opinion, is that we interpret "the
right to free speech" as "the right to say nonsense".

You can call his words whatever you want. I'm not signing a petition or going
to war to protect Cammy Dee. This is not free speech.

I'll save my energy for Ai Weiwei,

EDIT: Thanx!

~~~
icebraining
_This is not free speech_

"Free" is not a characteristic of the content of the speech; it's a
characteristic of the consequences of such speech.

You're right that this speech wasn't free, but that's because the kid's in
jail, not because it's "nonsense".

 _What is more wrong with society, in my opinion, is that we interpret "the
right to free speech" as "the right to say nonsense"._

When you say that some speech doesn't deserve freedom because it's "nonsense",
you give those who want to silence speech an easy way - just label it as
"nonsense". And after all, ideological dissent is almost by definition
"nonsense" to those who believe in the status quo.

~~~
fixxer
By "nonsense", I mean inflammatory speech with no defined purpose. I base this
on social norms because this is a society.

I get the argument you're trying to make. 99% of the time, I'd roll with you.
The real exercise of free speech in this whole thing is our dialogue, which I
will fight for. I'm not going to fight for Cammy Dee, however.

