
Backpage.com Pleads Guilty to Human Trafficking in Texas - aviv
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/backpage.com-pleads-guilty-to-human-trafficking-in-texas
======
openmosix
Honest question: does it mean they were really guilty of it, or simply they
have been offered a better deal than going through the trial? I guess if
somebody accuses me of 93 indictments, which potentially leads to a life
sentence vs plead guilty and you'll only make 5 years, I'll plead guilty. I'm
asking because there is an implication. If I run a website which does not
facilitate human trafficking - but I can get accused and risk 25 years - I'll
also plead guilty, even if my website is a fantasy football website.

~~~
tptacek
I can't find a NY indictment, but the CA one is easy to find. Backpage
principals are charged with:

* Systemic _knowing_ commercial promotion of prostitution.

* An elaborate internal management process focused on concealing evidence of their knowledge of prostitution, including internal employee training.

* _Knowing_ commercial promotion of child sex trafficking, in ads that included photos, in which their policy was to strip out keywords indicative of child sex trafficking _while still running the ads_.

* A long series of money laundering schemes to collect money from sex traffickers without routing those transactions through banks and credit card processing services.

* An elaborate series of financial moves designed to conceal their assets from prosecutors.

This isn't Craigslist. They ran the site like a criminal conspiracy, which is
what it was.

I imagine they've plead guilty because they would have lost calamitously at
trial, and the sentences they'd have received after a jury conviction would
have been horrific. I'd imagine that if you were Carl Ferrer, you'd be
thinking, "the prosecutors are going to show the jury a bunch of ads depicting
children known to have been trafficked, with evidence that we knowingly
massaged the ad to ensure it could be published for our profit".

~~~
woah
If you're not of the opinion that prostitution is immoral and must be
outlawed, then the only problematic bullet point is the one about child sex
trafficking.

But looking into it, they were stripping out hundreds of words from ads. This
was being done to avoid prosecution for allowing prostitution ads on their
platform. However, the senate's report and all the media focus on 5 or 6 words
that have underage connotations, in an effort to scandalize you.

Read for yourself:
[https://www.mccaskill.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017.01.10%20...](https://www.mccaskill.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017.01.10%20Backpage%20Report.pdf)

It sounds like you are morally outraged and quite shocked to imagine that such
a thing as prostitution could exist, and that you are clamoring for the
government to sweep it under the rug. Banning and hiding prostitution does not
make it go away, it just makes it more dangerous for the prostitutes. Your
analysis here is based on moral outrage and your credulous reading of a report
sensationalized to make some prosecutor's career.

~~~
jakelazaroff
_> If you're not of the opinion that prostitution is immoral and must be
outlawed, then the only problematic bullet point is the one about child sex
trafficking._

I support legalizing prostitution, but that "only problematic bullet point"
(where they knowingly covered up child sex trafficking) is reason enough to
take down the site and prosecute the owners. It's ridiculous to say the focus
on that is "an effort to scandalize you" — that alone is both legally and
morally wrong, regardless of the rest of the charges, and they should be
punished for it.

------
paxys
And the CEO himself pleaded guilty to money laundering. I remember people here
were coming out in droves to defend the company against big bad government
when the site was first seized.

This line is particularly condemning:

> It was involved in 73 percent of all child trafficking cases reported to the
> National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

~~~
orbitingpluto
Unfortunately all this might mean is that child trafficking cases not reported
on Backpage have a much higher chance of never being reported.

So I don't view the statement particularly condemning RELATIVE TO (note the
emphasis!) non-Backpage child trafficking cases. Furthermore, the age
distribution of victims between Backpage vs non-Backpage victims probably
differs considerably.

~~~
azinman2
It also cuts off a significant channel. Only time will tell, but chances are
it could make a large impact in reduction.

~~~
pfisch
That is bullshit. I'm sure there are already 100 other sites doing this.

This is like shutting down piratebay. No one really cares except the owners.

As if you would shut down your very profitable human trafficking business
because backpage.com is down. You already have your dungeons and people or
whatever is entailed in this sick shit. You would just go to another site.

~~~
creddit
This argument is so often used; that shutting down access to one means of
doing an illegal or negative act doesn't matter because there are other means
and it's always false.

Any time you increase the cost of doing something by a non-trivial amount you
are almost certain to decrease the amount that thing is done. The assumptions
you make that you lead you to your conclusion aren't clearly based in fact:

1) It is effectively costless to move to a new service 2) Any new service has
equivalent demand 3) The profits are significant ( _your very profitable human
trafficking business_ )

The first is clearly false. You'll need to move all your workflows to a new
platform, learn the new platform, understand how to market on it, etc.

The second is also clearly false. These are marketplaces meaning there are
strong network effects. Backpage was likely the _best_ marketplace meaning it
had very large portions of both the supply side and demand side. Now, how do
you what service to move to when no service is dominant yet? You don't. You
almost certainly see decreased marketplace effects in the "100 other sites
doing this".

For the third, is there any reason at all to believe the human trafficking
business is "very profitable"? It seems like a very small market with very
high costs.

Of course, a further effect here is the deterrent that shutting down such a
website will be to developers who may wish to replace backpage.

A further example of what I will call "the fallacy of costless transfer" is in
suicide prevention. Removing access to easy means of suicide, prevents the
likelihood of committing suicide. Hence why there is to be a net around the
golden gate bridge to catch jumpers.

~~~
busterarm
Yeah, prohibition has worked out lots of times.

~~~
jakelazaroff
When people refer to prohibitions failing, they're generally referring to
consensual or victimless crimes: drugs, alcohol, (non-coerced) prostitution,
gambling, etc.

That's not the case here. Coercion and violence are component to human
trafficking. Taking down Backpage and similar websites isn't "prohibition" any
more than laws against murder are.

~~~
busterarm
And I think you missed the point completely and that's exactly why my comment
had to be made.

The fact that you use murder here is a perfect example.

Prohibition measures are all about restricting the availability of something
to curb the desire of it.

With the sole exception of the Quaalude, it has never worked. A single
government had to convince a global industry to stop its production entirely.
There were only like 7 or 9 labs making it though. Oh and with designer drug
labs in China, you can actually get ludes made now if you're clever.

Human trafficking, coercion and violence is a side-effect of a desire creating
a market. Driving that market underground will not eliminate the market, you
have to eliminate peoples' desire for that thing.

You can't globally stop the production of human beings to curtail this market
like they did with Quaaludes...

Murder is just about the freest, easiest thing you can do if that's your
desire. Murder rates are on the decline because it's just something not that
many people want to do anymore.

~~~
jakelazaroff
The crux of the prohibition argument is this:

> Human trafficking, coercion and violence is a side-effect of a desire
> creating a market.

 _But this will never be a legitimate market._ We're talking about money being
exchanged for _sex with children._ That is inherently violent, and has
absolutely nothing to do with whatever market may or may not exist.

The argument against prohibition is that making the thing illegal is more
harmful than regulating it. That's not the case with murder, and it's not the
case with human trafficking — _any_ occurrence of it is harmful, regardless of
how you regulate it.

------
written
Everyone's repeating the 73% number, like it's some shocking statistic.

It's meaningless number in isolation. For example if backpage.com captured 70%
of the sex ads market, I'd expect it to also capture the sex ads related crime
at the similar rate.

If craigslist has 90% of ads for selling beanie babies, it will also have a
hand in significant majority of beanie babies selling related crime.

So the question should be how big backapage was when it came to sex work ads,
to make sense of this number.

------
mattsfrey
These guys were undoubtedly sleazeballs but I find it shocking to see this
sudden wave of legistlation and enforcement against prostitution and its fa
cilitation regardless. Craigslist, backpages, et al have been around for
decades practically and everyone knows what the deal is. I thought we'd be on
the edge of legalization, not doing a 180 in 2018.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't think any of this has anything to do with the
declared intent, and commentary from those in a position to actually know
about the issue are virtually universally against shutting down these mediums.

~~~
warent
Legalization of exploiting women and children? I hope I'm misinterpreting what
you're saying

~~~
lighthazard
Legalization of sex work where consenting adult individual(s) gets paid to do
things with other consenting adult individual(s).

~~~
azinman2
The motivation was those held against their will, not some small percentage of
victimless women with healthy psychies and great childhoods and no drug
addiction who consciously chose sex work because they think it empowers them.

~~~
hackinthebochs
Hell of a false dichotomy you constructed there.

------
sebleon
> It was involved in 73 percent of all child trafficking cases reported to the
> National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Wouldn't this make Backpage an incredible asset to law enforcement? I'm
surprised they're taking it down, instead of cooperating.

I can imagine the site could have facilitated countless sting operations and
collected user data to identify traffickers.

~~~
paxys
It says right in the article that they have been cooperating. And Backpage has
been under investigation since at least 2016, so law enforcement has a ton of
data to work with. Who says they haven't been using it for further arrests
already?

~~~
borski
I think OP meant leaving it up and continuing to collect data / track the
players.

~~~
SubiculumCode
Its quite possible that that part of the play dried up.

~~~
lostcolony
More likely that the forces driving the legislation (which are very anti-sex,
period), and the Congress critters willing to jump on board (who know their
base), don't know and/or don't care about whether the boon it provides to law
enforcement outweighs its visibility re: trafficking.

A lot of morals based legislation is driven by worldview, not by data.

------
isaachier
To understand the story a little more regarding Backpage and its criminal
activities, I'd highly recommend watching "I am Jane Doe" on Netflix. It is a
documentary exposing the child prostitution and human trafficking Backdoor
facilitated.

------
colorincorrect
I saw a reposted Facebook post: "I got contacted by 4-5 of my former pimps
guaranteeing work safety"

This is only driving sex work underground, something that sex workers have
suggested would happen years ago

------
jamestimmins
"It was involved in 73 percent of all child trafficking cases reported to the
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children." If true, this is
staggering.

~~~
Johnny555
What I don't understand is that if all of this blatant child trafficking was
going on, why the authorities weren't using the information to actually hunt
down the traffickers. Driving them farther underground seems like it will make
them harder to find.

I doubt that losing backpage ads is going to make a big dent in the trade --
child trafficking is so abhorrent and so clearly illegal that the people
involved will find other ways to connect.

~~~
jstarfish
> What I don't understand is that if all of this blatant child trafficking was
> going on, why the authorities weren't using the information to actually hunt
> down the traffickers. Driving them farther underground seems like it will
> make them harder to find.

They were trying. Backpage has a history of being completely unhelpful in
investigations (for reasons which are now quantifiable), and the amount of
time it takes to conduct investigations and secure convictions far exceeds the
time it takes for a pimp to ditch his burner phones and set up shop the next
state over. Local PD can't chase them and the FBI doesn't have time to deal
with this shit parade unless it's of sufficient scale.

When there's a website that makes it as easy to buy a night with a 14-year old
as it is to buy a used toaster, nuking that cesspool and making it more
inconvenient for buyers and sellers alike creates chaos and denies service.

~~~
Johnny555
But they are selling something that has to be delivered in person, what's so
hard about setting up undercover sting operations on both sides -- setting up
meetings with pimps, and advertising to catch the johns? They don't even need
backpage to help - like you said, the people placing ads aren't using their
own phones or credit cards, so it's not even clear what help backpage could
offer.

Seems like police should be able to make a steady stream of arrests just from
this one website.

~~~
jstarfish
> what's so hard about setting up undercover sting operations on both sides

There are not enough qualified investigators or time in the day to run down
every prostitute with an ad while Backpage plays shell games with the ones
featuring children.

~~~
merpnderp
You don't need enough to catch them all in a single day. If 1 in 100 ads was a
sting, in a few years all the pimps will be locked up and all the johns in the
system.

------
gremlinsinc
Wow: It was involved in 73 percent of all child trafficking cases reported to
the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. ... and the CEO only
gets 5 years...

Pot smokers go to jail longer. He'll probably get off in 6 months, I'd
imagine... if he pays the right judge enough $$. He should go to prison for
life without parole.

------
sp332
Is this different from the previous indictment? It mentioned trafficking a lot
but they weren't actually charged with trafficking.
[http://www.businessinsider.com/backpage-
executives-93-count-...](http://www.businessinsider.com/backpage-
executives-93-count-federal-indictment-2018-4)

~~~
jackthetab
It seems to be a plea deal rather than an actual indictment.

Someone please feel free to show me the actual trafficking indictment; I
didn't find one on a cursory look.

~~~
sp332
It seems odd to plead "down" to trafficking when the original charges were
facilitating prostitution?

Edit: It looks like TFA might be factually wrong. Here's the DoJ's version of
it: [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/backpage-s-co-founder-and-
ceo...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/backpage-s-co-founder-and-ceo-well-
several-backpage-related-corporate-entities-enter-guilty)

------
noobermin
Does anyone have any more info? Did he really believe he facilitated sex
trafficking?

~~~
wavefunction
They stripped terms out related specifically to children from the listings and
still posted them.

~~~
noobermin
Something like a dumb wordfilter? Or did they just ban words and traffickers
posted ads that didn't include them?

~~~
jovrtn
According to the Senate report on the matter[0], Backpage would systematically
help posters reword illegal ads to appear less so:

"Backpage has publicly touted its process for screening adult advertisements
as an industry-leading effort to protect against criminal abuse, including sex
trafficking. A closer review of that “moderation” process reveals, however,
that Backpage has maintained a practice of altering ads before publication by
deleting words, phrases, and images indicative of an illegal transaction."

[0]
[https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Backpage%20Report...](https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Backpage%20Report%202017.01.10%20FINAL.pdf)

~~~
noobermin
Scanned the executive summary. That does sound like they aren't good guys. As
I posted above, putting down backpage as a whole puts a lot of sex workers at
risk, but this gives me mixed feelings about backpage in general.

~~~
jovrtn
Yeah—not arguing the overall wisdom of law enforcement's approach here, but
it's important to understand how much these guys were aware of the illegal
activity on their platform and chose to actively facilitate it.

------
yters
So many people willing to go to bat for backpage, but why? It's supposedly a
moral opposition to censorship or what not. IMHO, it's really a fear that
there will be a general crackdown on sexual content online. Great in my
opinion, since porn has done so much to destroy our society. The sooner we
censor porn the better.

~~~
Johnny555
Ok, I'll bite -- what has porn done to destroy our society? Granted, I think
our society is far from perfect, but pornography seems way down on the list.
Then again, I'm out of my porn-buying days, so maybe the proliferation of free
porn has more of an effect on the younger set.

------
philip1209
> Backpage facilitated the sex trafficking of innocent women and children [ .
> . . ]

I'm surprised that the government is so exclusive of adult male victims. I'm
uneducated on the subject, but I can imagine that there exist a non-zero
number of male victims of human trafficking.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
From what I understand many trafficked males are children.

------
lilililili
As a buyer of commercial sex from consensual adult women, this is some
background information:

* Consensual sex work doesn’t mean that they’re thrilled to be doing it. Just like you can hate your job you’re consensually employed at. Most of the women I see are doing it to simply make a lot more money in a lot less time and get to see their kids more, do other things, etc.

* Backpage was the bottom of the barrel in online sex work. More drug addicts (whom I consider borderline consensual to nonconsensual depending on the severity of their addiction) and pimped girls there than elsewhere, but also some less attractive or less put together consensual sex workers.

* Backpage was almost entirely about prostitution, unlike Craigslist.

* Post all of this, girls are harder to find for sure. The winners here are people with access to clients (pimps) as well as good escort agencies, as well as well established girls with regular clients.

* Internet prostitution brought a higher socioeconomic class of prostitute and client to the marketplace, and took some girls from street sex work to much safer online sex work.

* Likely long term impact is a big reduction in the overall volume of commercial sex work with the higher socioeconomic class women and men deciding it is not worth the risk. Markets will return to the street, with fewer participants, higher prices, and more danger for those who remain.

* From the utilitarian point of view, whether this is an improvement or not depends on how much more harm you think a pimped girl being raped in a car is compared to a college student getting fucked in a hotel room for $300 to help her pay bills rather than working 30 hours that week in the campus bookstore.

