
The End of Gangs - ern
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/politics-and-law/the-end-of-gangs-los-angeles-southern-california-epidemic-crime-95498/
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corysama
There was a BestOf'd comment on Reddit giving another perspective on this
article.

[http://np.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/2qpqh9/the_end_of...](http://np.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/2qpqh9/the_end_of_gangs_cleaning_up_los_angeles/cn8j95t?context=3)

[http://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/2qqujj/ucalvindehaze...](http://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/2qqujj/ucalvindehaze_explains_why_gangs_are_declining_in/)

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ThrustVectoring
The lead exposure angle and the removal of lead in gasolines needs more weight
than the throwaway mention it was given.

Simple biology is a ludicrously heavy lever on human behavior.

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IndianAstronaut
>Simple biology is a ludicrously heavy lever on human behavior.

Seemingly small biological factors can have huge social consequences.

For example not having clean water and getting parasites can mean a lower IQ
for children and hindered development.
[http://www.economist.com/node/16479286](http://www.economist.com/node/16479286)

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new299
The article makes that assertion, and implies that their is more evidence
beyond correlation, but never shows this. Clean water, is likely to be so
highly correlated with IQ due to any number of other factors I think it will
be extremely difficult to disambiguate.

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IndianAstronaut
It might likely be a causal factor.

[http://repository.unm.edu/bitstream/handle/1928/17471/CEppig...](http://repository.unm.edu/bitstream/handle/1928/17471/CEppig%20Dissertation.pdf?sequence=1#page=75)

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new299
Could be, but I don't think the report shows that. In fact it states:

"Many scientists, both critics and supporters, have expressed concern that the
experimental methods we have used have not adequately established that
causation exists between IQ and infectious disease, and that its direction is
the one we predict. The use of longitudinal studies could answer all of these
questions. Such studies would track children from as early an age as possible,
documenting the intensity, duration, timing, and types of infections they
acquire, and track their cognitive development through the use of culturally-
appropriate IQ tests."

In fact I'd think that so many other potential causative factors, such as lack
of education, freetime, skilled employment etc. are likely to be correlated
with incidence of infectious disease, that it's hard to draw any strong
conclusions without a more detailed study.

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joshuahedlund
For anyone interested in urban gang dynamics I highly recommend David
Kennedy's book Don't Shoot. I recently read it and it contains some amazing
insights into misunderstandings that communities of law enforcement and urban
neighborhoods have about each other and gangs which leads to rational but
wrong behaviors that perpetuate those misunderstandings, along with some
brilliant ideas to change those dynamics with examples of those applied ideas
working in multiple neighborhoods across the country.

[http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Fellowship-Violence-
Inner-C...](http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Fellowship-Violence-Inner-
City/dp/1608194140)

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mathattack
_This has created the only-in-L.A. phenomenon of commuter gangs: guys who
drive a long way to be with their homies at the corner where the gang began.
(In the 204th Street neighborhood in the Harbor Gateway, I met gang members
who drove in from Carson, the San Gabriel Valley, and even Palm Springs.)_

The joys of living in California. I wonder if this will happen in East Palo
Alto too.

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learc83
What about decriminalizing possession of small quantities of marijuana that
went into effect in 2011? Or medical marijuana that is also fairly recent.

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code_duck
Indeed, this takes potentially a lot of money out of the hands of criminals
and into less violent hands.

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jimmaswell
If possessing it is decriminalized and legitimate sources aren't made a more
attractive option than otherwise, then people are still going to end up
supporting cartels etc. when buying it.

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code_duck
Legalization changes that because it makes it a lot easier to cultivate in the
US, safely and legally. Illegality encourages actions like smuggling from
Central and South America, and guerrilla grows in National Forests. With
decreased legal pressure, more savory elements of society produce high quality
cannabis in the US. So, even if that produce is sold on the black market its a
better situation than violent gangs from Mexico smuggling bricks of marijuana
with theI meth, cocaine and heroin.

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techwatching
I wonder to what degree technology has played a role. The article references
gang taunting etc. via the internet instead of on the street - would be
interesting to know to what degree social networks, video games, etc. have had
an impact on gang activities, and also the degree to which drug sales have
moved off the street - i.e.: you don't need people hanging on the corner to
sell drugs anymore.

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balls187
> I wonder to what degree technology has played a role.

Since 2008, other than smartphones, what has really changed in tech?

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toolz
Online drug sales from sites like silk road, for one.

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apt-bunt
I have to disagree with you on this point. I doubt Silk Road or people buying
drugs online with bitcoins have affected the market for street drugs at all.
Two completely different socio-economic markets.

Most who buy drugs in the inner city do not have access to bitcoin and/or Silk
Road, and even if they did they would scoff at the inflated prices compared to
the price on the streets.

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tsotha
This is just the normal transition every successful street gang makes to a
more sophisticated organized crime like you see in big East Coast cities.
"Gangs" like MS-13 are huge, with more than 100k members in the US and a half
dozen other countries. The Crips and Bloods can't stand up to that kind of
organization - they either get coopted or destroyed.

When a handful of guys in Guadalajara have a piece of every drug transaction
in Southern California it's all going to look pretty peaceful unless you cross
them.

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cranklin
In my opinion, it's simpler. Gang culture is cyclic. It's simply not "cool" to
be a gangster nowadays, therefore insecure kids don't aspire to be gangsters.
But like all things, in time, it will be "in" again.

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spydum
perhaps it's the rise of social networks, facebook, flappy bird, etc which has
neutralized all gangs.. kids nowadays can't put their phones down, get off the
couch. they've gotten lazier?

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re_todd
That has also probably helped police track them and stay on top of the
problem.

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gaius
No mention of biker gangs like the Hells Angels, I wonder if their popularity
ebbs and flows on the same cycle (no pun intended).

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spiritplumber
Now gangs are bigger and their members wear badges. Sort of like the ending of
A Clockwork Orange...

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programmarchy
They also have colonies, fraternal lodges, round tables, and front groups.

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jlcx
> “Before, they were into turf...now they’re more interested in making money.”

So they switched from a zero-sum game to a positive-sum game?

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skc
I'd wager that kids are probably making smarter choices nowadays since
information is more freely available with regards to what options are out
there besides joining a gang.

