
Arrested by Undercover Officers After Trying to Sell His Laptop Online - dankohn1
https://twitter.com/i/moments/731957349640867840
======
djrogers
Wow, I am really looking forward to finding g out more about this. What agency
were they with? How often do they do this? Was it random or targeted, and if
the latter at the person or device?

Side note - he wasn't arrested, he was handcuffed, had a weapon stuck in his
back, was detained, had an illegal search performed on his possessions, and
all by purported law enforcement officers who refused to identify themselves.
In many ways this is worse than being arrested - with an arrest there are
other layers of law enforcement to appeal to and receive justice. With an
arrest at least we would have officers names, charges, etc, which if faked
could theoretically result in discipline or firing of the officer. I know it
doesn't always work that way, but at least the checks and balances exist.

With this kind of officer-level illegal search and detainment, there is very
very little that can be done to seek any sort of justice. If this kids mom
wasn't a reporter, _nobody_ would have heard or believed the story.

~~~
joe_the_user
_Side note - he wasn 't arrested, he was handcuffed, had a weapon stuck in his
back, was detained, had an illegal search performed on his possessions, and
all by purported law enforcement officers who refused to identify themselves._

I have some news for you. Arrest means _nothing_ but detained/held/stopped.
Most people imagine an arrest action has something formal to it, like having
your rights read or someone announcing you're arrested. But it doesn't. You've
been detained? You have been arrested. The cops zero obligation to tell you
anything and they never have had such obligation.

As to whether it was illegal? The police have wide latitude to determine
probable cause for whatever. You're right this kind of thing happens all the
time, you're right it's despicable. But sadly, it's broadly legal and more or
less the "normal" way the law works.

If you read the wikipedia article, it describes rights but you will notice the
only limits in the US is how long you can be held and whether your statements
can held against you (at which point you are supposed to be read you're right,
except for limitless exceptions to this requirement).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest)

~~~
DrScump
<The police have wide latitude to determine probable cause for whatever>

No, they have wide latitude to try to _claim_ probable cause but cannot create
probable cause out of thin air. If a court later decides there was none, the
evidence is tossed anyway (and permanently tainted).

~~~
joe_the_user
Police are indeed prohibited from claiming probable cause based on no evidence
at all but no-evidence-at-all is about the only no-no. A wide variety of vague
actions can be taken as evidence, such "acting nervous", not seeming like you
belong in a location, reaching into one's pocket, moving quickly, etc, etc.

------
gsklee
I once dreamed of immigrating to the US and working in the Bay Area... but
it's become apparent to me now that there's something inherently wrong with
that country. I guess I'll go to Australia or Canada instead.

~~~
pravda
Canada is cold. Australia is expensive and its government is corrupt.

But getting to the point, you really shouldn't allow isolated acts like this
to influence you.

You're much more likely to be killed by the next earthquake in the Bay area
then you are to be killed by dopey police officer.

~~~
schwarrrtz
> Canada is cold.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic here... In Vancouver, the summers are
gorgeous without being sweltering. The winters are mild.

Affordability is definitely an issue, but if you work in tech then it
shouldn't really be a problem.

~~~
gozur88
Even if you're in tech... my impression is with Vancouver you get the high
cost of living without the high salaries you find in SF.

------
geierdmtr
i got arrested, jailed and beaten by police after calling them to help me with
a car accident resolution. 4 month and $15000 spent on lawyers later they are
still trying to frame me although by now all blood results show that i wasn't
under the influence. and the beating, they claim it never happened and are not
releasing the surveillance video of the beating. and it happened in my
community into which i pay over $100k in taxes, annually. i was treated like
an animal, and nobody cares since they don't believe it can happen to them.
and i am white, although a european with an accent. the jail i was beaten in
had 8 suspicious inmate deaths just last year, only one of them is a confirmed
killing by police and 3 guards are being sued. all other deaths are written
off, since the killed inmates don't have family and nobody cares to dig.

~~~
joesmo
Your fist mistake is expecting anyone in America to care about your suffering.
Your second mistake is not realizing that the cops don't give a shit about
your money or your color once they've targeted you. Yes, they certainly do
prefer to target individuals of color because that's been their primary
objective in this country for its entire existence and before it was even
founded as a country. But make no mistake about it; they will target you, they
will beat you, they will kill you if they so like. And they _will_ get away
with it and probably with some additional vacation (paid leave) during the
investigation.

This is the price we have to pay to keep oppressing blacks, latinos, Muslims,
and whomever the undesirable group of the month might happen to be. Your third
mistake was underestimating the cowardice of Americans especially the
cowardice and fear of white America towards blacks, Hispanics, and recently
Muslims. Americans have given up most of their freedoms in exchange for a
brutal, oppressive police force whose sole purpose is oppression, racism, and
cruelty. What happened to you is totally fucked up, but if you think paying
$100k in taxes makes you immune or somehow protected from this brutal
oppression machine, you simply do not understand the forces at play here in
America.

~~~
teddyh
While most everything you say is true, that is a _terrible_ attitude. Becoming
a negative, hate-filled cynic is the _easy way_ to mentally cope with the
situation, but it doesn’t help and actually only makes it worse by accepting
it. Acknowledging these things as true but _still_ expecting people to behave
like civilized people, and speaking out when they don’t, is much harder, but
it needs to be done if anything is to improve.

~~~
joesmo
I expect civilized people to behave in civilized manners, but police are not
civilized in this country--they have too much power and no consequences.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and what's more absolute than being able to
murder pretty much anyone you want and get away with it? That's not a person,
that's a fucking tyrant with a badge and expecting someone like that to behave
in a civilized matter is what leads one to be beaten up or murdered and your
relatives wondering why the cop got a nice, paid vacation for murdering their
son. I'm just speaking from purely a pragmatic, survivalist point of view. If
what you say works for you, that's great. But after having almost been
murdered by an officer for peacefully having a conversation on a sidewalk, I
can no longer believe these creatures are even fucking human anymore. And a
lot of America thinks this way because a lot of people are oppressed and
targeted by police here.

~~~
geierdmtr
sorry it happened to you. i like your writings.. i guess the more of us office
gerbils get hit across the face with reality, the more light we shine on these
issues and cause some changes.

~~~
joesmo
Yup. I think things have to get bad for non-poor whites before there are any
changes. You can see this happening right now with the opiate pandemic. When
that negativity outweighs the __perceived __positivity of our de facto
segregationist system to white people, a system mainly enforced by police, we
might see changes.

For now, I think a good start toward this goal is to start seeing people--all
people--as human. That's not just something the police have to do, but
something I have to do vis a vis the police, and everyday people have to do
vis a vis both police, convicts, and "criminals". I'm personally willing to
let go of my hate for the police and the justice system in this country if and
when we start treating all people like humans. That means we don't use the
threat and actuality of rape, torture, and murder in jail as a punishment when
the actual punishment is going to jail. To me, it means police and government
officials are held not only accountable, but to a higher standard than normal
citizens (worse penalties and certainly no immunity from liability). It also
means not criminalizing everyday activities.

Until then, the only thing we can do is speak up, bring awareness, and hope
the police don't target us. And probably one of the most important things,
teaching our children the truth about police, not the fairy tale of "serve and
protect."

~~~
geierdmtr
there is a police conduct complain procedure. but it can only be used within
30 days of the incident, not an option when you are in enthralled in
proccedings. also mountain view PD for example hides the complaint forms from
you, and only provides them on demand. Also many Califiornia PD use an anti
constitutional clause on the complaints forms, which states that any complaint
can land You in jail if found unfounded. And almost every complaint will end
up unfounded when filed, still worth it cause it stays in the police officers
file indefinitely and if those complaints add up the officer will not be
trusted by courts. Point is everybody is discouraged to complain about police
misconduct. Myself, i can't dedicate my life fighting this one incident.

------
DrScump
This sounds far more like a robbery or mistaken-identity case (or a theft
victim thinking that the subject was himself a thief of _that_ person's
property).

There is nothing about this indicative of actual police procedure. Craigslist-
originated robberies are fairly common in urban U.S. CL regions.

In any case, there are contradictions in her account. For one, she expresses
concern about his "personal files" being probed, copied and taken (with no
indication why any would be of any interest to any level of law enforcement),
yet this was a computer he was _selling to a complete stranger_ as it was --
why would any personal files of any value or vulnerability be left on it in
the first place?

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troisx
This whole thing seems a little fishy. It supposedly happened on Friday and
the only news article I could find about it didn't have any independent
verification.

~~~
jerrycabbage
Yes. Cuffs "cut his hands". They apparently sold the laptop with the evidence.
Gun "in his back".I hate cops more than these geeks but even I can figure out
BS. The "buyer" blamed it on the police but sounds like he wasn't a cop? Why?
ycombinator is a sharpish crowd but they tend to not underestimate how many
random liars there are. Thats why this account has a -1 score.

------
xupybd
Twitter is the worst way to communicate a story like this. Is there an article
on it?

------
ryandamm
This is a good reminder of the various bubbles I live in -- geographic,
racial... okay, those two.

Appalling. I wish it were more unbelievable.

~~~
HillRat
Every time I think I can't be shocked, someone steps up to prove me wrong.
Evidently "computing while black" is now a thing.

~~~
gdix
How did the police know he was black from the Craigslist post when they set up
the sting?

~~~
coverband
Why are you so stuck on this? How the police acted after showing up for the
purchase is being questioned here, not the concept of a sting operation.

------
beardog
Government in general in the US doesn't have much accountability, that
includes law enforcement.

~~~
solipsism
Are there any governments which _do_ have high levels of accountability?
Honest question.

~~~
beardog
No, not really... although Iceland seems good...

------
proyb2
Seriously, either Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore are safest countries than in
USA. Need more startup in Singapore.

~~~
selestify
Sadly, Hong Kong doesn't seem to have much tech.

~~~
proyb2
OSSIC X headphone started one and some Kickstarter campaigns I have no backing
on their products, a few amazing technology they can do. Rarely seen startup
tech in Singapore.

------
senectus1
this sort of crap is what keeps me from letting the wife book a holiday to the
US.

Damn, US you a scary country.

~~~
segf4ult
And what country are you in where things like this don't happen?

~~~
redcap
From Australia, live in Japan. Having a gun pointed at you by police would not
happen in the situation described.

~~~
krapp
On the other hand, Japan's justice system has a 99% conviction rate. That
doesn't happen without blatant, systemic corruption.

I'd rather deal with cops who might shoot me than cops who will definitely get
a confession out of me if they want one.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
AFAIK a big chunk of the 99% conviction rate is because police will not pursue
a case that isn't easy open and shut.

~~~
Trill-I-Am
It's very disturbing to me that there are any qualifiers that could make that
statistic acceptable. It's like explaining the FISA court's approval rate.

------
nathancahill
Fuck everything about this.

------
chisleu
I was with her until she started talking about Trayvon.

~~~
tristor
Same here. What happened to her son is terrible and I hope she gets justice.
But people should also know that the Trayvon Martin Foundation has not
adequately reported their financials as they are legally obligated to do.
Currently, while unsubstantiated (because nobody knows), it's been stated in
several places that the Foundation is being used as a funnel for money
directly to Trayvon's family personally, without any uses that correspond to
the Foundation's stated purposes. Since they've failed to properly file their
Form 990 with the IRS, there's no public record of their finances.

I understand why the incident could have resonated with Ms. Taylor, but I also
think as a journalist she has a responsibility to not promote an organization
which is flagrantly failing to follow the law around nonprofits. Instead Ms.
Taylor could have promoted several other charities with better track records
if she felt this was the proper moment and venue to use to promote charities
focused on civil rights. For instance [1][2][3][4] all received 5 star ratings
on Charity Navigator and have purposes in line with those stated for the
Trayvon Martin Foundation.

1\. The Southern Center for Human Rights:
[http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...](http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=8582)

2\. The National Center for Law and Economic Justice:
[http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...](http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=10541)

3\. The Institute for Justice:
[http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...](http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=5454)

4\. Futures without Violence:
[http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...](http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6436)

------
dumptheram
LE here. First, who releases something like this via Twitter? Second, her
story makes no sense in regards to how LE operates. I suspect this will turn
out to be all false or at least a half-truth.

------
brett40324
I hope she and her son get justice. Theres another story here somewhere. Those
agents were looking for someone specific. Perhaps even a specific macbook.
Who? Why?

------
_ati
Would there be any cc camera recording of the entire incident probably that
might help in identifying those officers

------
kelukelugames
So that's what a Twitter moment was. Cool. Does the tweeter set it up or
Twitter automatically figures it out?

------
gdix
So the subtext here is that the cops are racist, right? How would the police
know the seller of the Macbook was black from the Craigslist post?

How did her son know it was a weapon pressed against his back?

How could the handcuffs possibly have cut his wrists? Handcuffs don't have,
like, blades on them that just cut you as they're hanging off your wrists.
Seems like something added to punch-up the narrative.

And then tag it with a couple "Trayvon" mentions at the end. This screams
"hoax" to me.

~~~
thedz
> This screams "hoax" to me.

Healthy skepticism is useful, but if you think that the editor-at-large of a
well known U.S. media publication would conduct a public hoax involving her
son, well, you do you.

~~~
gdix
Or it could be her son did not give an accurate account of what happened. You
keep doing you as well. We'll see how this shakes out.

~~~
thedz
Her son being misinformed, assuming that was true, is not a hoax. By
definition, a hoax is an intentional deception. You claiming that it is a hoax
explicitly means you think there's an intent to mislead on the part of the
editor.

~~~
gdix
Nope. If the son lied, then that is intentional deception.

