
U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain - mudil
https://www.hhs.gov/surgeongeneral/reports-and-publications/addiction-and-substance-misuse/advisory-on-marijuana-use-and-developing-brain/index.html
======
nenadg
I smoked weed heavily from my ~16 to ~18.

And I stopped because it was so overwhelming experience that I could not stand
any more. I couldn't function normally and had really tough trips, thinking
about so many end results in the same time. Minutes took hours and basically
it was an agony, while everybody had pretty joyful time laughing.

Now, I'm 38. I'm functional (so far), I have family with kids. I haven't
developed schizophrenia, but I have (had ever since my 18) the problem
focusing on (for example) - dates, lists (for when I have to go to buy
something), simple calculations etc. similar trivials, but I have no problems
working on abstract stuff - I work as software engineer.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, based on my experiences, but it seems that
majority of others had quite the opposite experiences than me.

~~~
graphememes
Being in the bay area, I have witnessed what you expressed happen to many
engineers since the legalization. They burn out quickly as well. They swear
it's not weed since everyone else tells them that's all tinfoil hat stuff.

It's very unfortunate.

~~~
sharadov
That's profoundly sad. But I don't blame the drug, people need to figure out
boundaries.

~~~
donw
That requires clear and honest guidance as to where those boundaries might
lie, though.

Broadly speaking, I am pro-legalization of Pretty Much Everything, on the
basis that proper education and appropriate treatment programs for heroin
users are better for society than jail time.

But that comes with the need to implement pragmatic, evidence-based policies
for how we approach drug use as a society.

A lot of neural development happens before your mid-20s, with a very large
chunk happening during your adolescent years. Recreational drug use before
your mid-20s, which includes alcohol and nicotine, really has a massive impact
on your entire life.

I would argue that "soft" drugs, like low-percentage alcohol (beer and wine),
maybe cocoa tea (not purified cocaine), and possibly low-percentage CBD should
be relatively safe for adolescents from sixteen onwards.

Medical professionals, feel free to chime in if I'm wrong here. :)

Hard alcohol, nicotine, cocaine, and such, on the other hand, should have some
access barrier for those under the age of twenty-five (90th percentile for
complete neural development).

I wouldn't advocate an outright ban or criminalization -- if a teenager wants
some weed and vodka, they're going to get it -- but putting some barriers in
place to discourage consumption for the under-aged would be wise.

All of this, of course, needs to be coupled with comprehensive education.

The abstinence-only approach of "Just Say No" doesn't equip kids to really
understand the full impact of the drugs they choose to use, and because of
that, there's a lot of misinformation out there, ranging from "weed will make
you crazy" to "it's completely safe for kids".

Neither of those things is true, and if we want to empower people to make good
decisions, we must first be honest with them about the impact and trade-offs
of the options on the table.

~~~
sharadov
That's the libertarian approach, which says legalize everything, tax
everything. Am with you on it, although am not sure, how that would work with
hard drugs ( cocaine,mushrooms,LSD, ecstasy,heroin). Again within hard drugs -
cocaine is vastly different from doing LSD. A single dose of LSD in a bad
setting could mess your psyche up for life. What you are doing is choosing the
better of two evils.I would rather buy a pure form of LSD from Pfizer that one
from a street dealer with a nefarious source and containing crap knows what!

~~~
donw
I'd say more pragmatic than purely libertarian. :)

You still need a regulatory framework, and I would strongly argue for
compulsory education on drug use, not to mention treatment programs, all of
which should be funded through use taxes.

Otherwise, though, I agree very much with the libertarians that that
empowering individuals to make their own life-choices is far more beneficial
to society than criminalization and prohibition.

~~~
sharadov
I think when you give people the facts and remove the stigma and the "mystery"
surrounding drugs, you will get people to start making wise choices - to
counteract it you need a sound education policy, not the fear-mongering that
goes in the name of education now.

------
hprotagonist
The national academy has a very nice writeup on "The Health Effects of
Cannabis and Cannabinoids: The Current State of Evidence and Recommendations
for Research (2017)" which is by far the most comprehensive guide I'm aware
of.

[http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/reports/2017/health-
effects...](http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/reports/2017/health-effects-of-
cannabis-and-cannabinoids.aspx)

The conclusions summary PDF has the highlights:
[http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20File...](http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2017/Cannabis-
Health-Effects/Cannabis-conclusions.pdf)

Personally, i first used weed when i was 22 and figure that's about right. I
continue to use it in moderation. I would not be comfortable with its use by a
minor child or a pregnant mother.

~~~
djsumdog
In ever US state where it is legal (Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado,
Alaska, Mass., and 2020 Illinois and Michigan) I think the minimum age is 21.
Sure people underage can get it, but there is an attempt being made to limit
it to people at least 21.

I knew parents who let their teenagers know they used it, but also told them
they didn't want their kids using it until they were at least 18 (but if they
wanted to try it; to ask them and not do it at a party or anything).

I generally agree.

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
> In ever US state where it is legal

I'm assuming you know that marijuana remains illegal due to (a) federal law
and (b) the Constitution's Supremacy Clause.

I mean this with complete sincerity and genuine curiosity: Why did you choose
wording that suggests the activity is wholly legal in those states?

~~~
romansul
Unless the federal government wants to get into a serious fight over state’s
rights, weed is effectively/wholly legal in states like California (I don’t
know the specific laws outside of CA)

If you’d like to argue that the federal government - through the supremacy
clause - has the power to override States that legalize marijuana, perhaps
you’re right in theory.

But I think it’s a fantasy that the federal government will want to die on
that hill. There are politically valuable reasons to avoid addressing the
tension between state’s rights and the federal government’s power.

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
It sounds like we're using different definitions of the word "illegal". It's
unfortunate that English makes it cumbersome to draw the necessary
distinction.

~~~
LocalH
Given that the federal government has consistently grabbed more power than our
founding documents actually gave them, forgive me for not really giving a shit
what the federal government's opinion is.

------
meiraleal
I smoke heavily for 10 years and if I could say something about the cognitive
changes, it was for better. I learnt two foreign languages, more programming
languages that I can count with one hand and got out of depression by means of
self-awareness and meditation after a joint. Weed+Youtube surely is harmful,
but so it is only Youtube (with less fun).

~~~
ksaj
You didn't say anything about your age, which would be important given that
the article is about the _developing_ brain. It's already pretty understood
that the negative impact is significantly less in the adult brain.

The majority of people I went to HS with that were potheads are in exactly the
types of jobs and whatnot that the Surgeon General suggests is most likely. Of
course there are a lot of outliers. Nobody said this was 100%. The musicians
are still pumping out great music. The artists are still doing artistic
things.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
Correlation, not causation

~~~
ksaj
That doesn't apply in this case, because the causation is well documented. The
developing brain _can_ suffer various types of delays when thc or just about
any other intoxicant is distracting said developing brain's ability to
actually develop.

Problems occur when the brain is too preoccupied in La La Land to develop
optimally for the real world. There's a huge difference between the "thinker"
and the "space cadet" when it comes to how one's brain handles thc in their
youth.

Space cadets tend to stay space cadets. Thinkers tend to stay thinkers. The
space cadet is who the Surgeon General is concerned about, because thc pretty
much obliterates their chances of getting out of La La Land mentality.

Nobody says pot _stops_ the brain from developing. You're going to get a
notable Bell Curve. Some potheads go total 70's/80's movie revival mode.
Others become Carl Sagan. Almost everyone around these people can identify
which one is the Carl Sagan and which is the Tommy Chong (character) pretty
early on. That's half of the pot humour in those movies, so it's not like only
non-users notice this.

~~~
meiraleal
Funny point: I do think that we have a better ratio of Carl Sagans/Tommy Chong
in the universe of pot smokers than in the non-smokers universe. Maybe the
tommy chongs that don't smoke are a little bit smarter, but they probably are
more sad/depressed.

~~~
ksaj
That's actually why I suggested Tommy Chong's character. In real life, he's a
smart guy - which you can tell when he's interviewing, versus when he is in
character.

He definitely understands the dichotomy, and as an ironic twist, has become
one of the most successful professional potheads in the world. He's a thinker
who is very good at emulating the opposite side of the Bell Curve.

------
0000011111
If we compare the effects of Marijuana on people to those of alcohol and or
Oxycodone, I think it is clear to most that the latter two are more
destructive.

I agree more research is needed on the effects of Marijuana use on people in
general.

And we need to keep the risk factors in perspective. Many more people will
die, hurt others and become addicted to alcohol and or Oxycodone than
marijuana.

So put that beer down before the bong.

~~~
wannabcodr
You would think this to be universally good advice based on the risks related
to alcohol intoxication and alcoholism, but it’s not. Some people would do
better to not smoke weed and instead drink moderately and socially.

~~~
LocalH
It's almost like instead of outright banning all of these substances, there
needs to be heavy research into them, with a goal of harm reduction.

------
habosa
Reading the comments here is a bit disappointing. There are a lot of
legalization advocates seeming to take the position that because weed is
mostly fine for most people it's always fine for everyone. It's not.

Anyone here who has a friend who smoked too much when they were young (and we
all have that friend) knows that weed, like so many things in life, can be
dangerous when you use it too much or when you shouldn't be using it.

Yes it should be legal. Yes adults should be able to buy it. We should also
watch, very carefully, how our children use it.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
That friend was already a deadbeat, with or without the weed. The weed didn’t
make them that way. Deadbeats are often attracted to weed, as are many others
who want to self-medicate.

The deadbeat examples are just more readily available, because the upstanding
successful folks are aware of this misconception and the stigma. They tend to
keep quiet about it, except among their own.

As I get older, I keep discovering “addicts” in my social circle that I’ve
known for years, or in some cases decades, who I’d have never guessed have a
habit. I don’t have any deadbeats in my social circle. These people all range
from moderately successful to wildly successful. A lot of the daily users I
can think of are _far_ more productive than I am. At least two of them have
founded and sold companies and no longer need to work. But they loathe feeling
unproductive, so they still do, and they’re the first ones in the office every
morning.

Personally, I have tried working under the influence, but it doesn’t work that
way for me. It’s not addictive though, so I simply stopped using it.

Just like owning a bed doesn’t make you lazy and tired, and it doesn’t cause
you to develop an excessive sleeping habit. Just because some people choose to
remain in bed to avoid responsibility, doesn’t mean there is a causal
relationship.

~~~
silvat
You're characterization of these people simply as deadbeats trying to avoid
responsibility is both extremely insensitive and simple minded. How deep a
person can gets caught up in addiction is usually a reflection of their
emotional health. They're not trying to escape responsibility, they're trying
to escape being alive.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
We’re saying the same thing. I am not concerned with being sensitive, sorry.
Facts don’t care about feelings. I think this mentality that we can’t speak
the truth out of fear that we’ll hurt their feelings, and encouraging a victim
mentality only makes things worse.

Recognizing that you are a deadbeat, and deciding that you don’t want to be is
the _only_ way to even begin recovery. I’ve seen this up close. Anyone who has
any experience helping addicts will tell you the same thing. That’s why forced
treatment doesn’t work and will never work.

Trust me, you’ll look at this differently after you have pulled family members
out of crack houses that you thought only existed like that in the movies, had
them steal your motorcycle and sell it for drugs, had them give your address
to their crackhead friends where your wife and kids sleep, etc. Some of us are
way past worrying about hurt feelings.

And this isn’t something that happens with weed users at all, which is why I
don’t think people really understand what it means to be a drug addict when
they mention weed. There is just no comparison.

~~~
dijksterhuis
I agree with what you’re saying, factually. I completely disagree with the way
you’re saying it unfortunately.

The important point to remember is that addicts already punish themselves
waaaaaaaaay more than anyone in the real world ever could.

Like, in my own experience, it’s like having a spade in my head that
constantly smashes me in my face me every few minutes. It’s absolutely
punishing.

I genuinely thought I was one of the worst human beings alive.

Referring to them as deadbeats is not the right way to go because it:

a) reinforces those punishing beliefs even more

b) reinforces the isolation and separation, which is a key element in the
problem

c) provides an excuse to keep going through stereotypes and stigma (“once an
addict, always an addict” etc.)

d) addicts, by our very nature, fight. Pushing an addict is like poking an
angry snake. It doesn’t help anyone. Playing the snake calming music does
though (ie being nice).

Edit:

One of the reasons I’m still clean is because of the guilt and shame I felt
about how badly I treated people. People who were genuinely very nice to me.
It takes time to see it, but it’s very important to be kind and to not judge.
It’s tough, especially when an addict hurts someone so much and so often.

Of course what you’ve been through sounds like hell. And Addiction doesn’t
just affect the individual. It affects _everyone_ around them, unfortunately.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
To be clear, are you saying _nobody_ is a deadbeat? And anyone avoiding
responsibility is a victim of something? Some might be, but _100%_ are? I find
this view of the world very naive.

Weed isn’t the reason that someone isn’t taking care of their wife and kids.
There could be many reasons, perhaps some legitimate and some not so
legitimate. But the reason is never that the weed got a hold of them like
people unfamiliar with it seem to think. It just doesn’t have that effect.
Some drugs do, though.

Edit:

BTW, although my connection to the situation was quite stressful, I would not
call what I went through hell compared to what his (now ex) wife and kids went
through. But yes, the blast radius is large there. And the people who got the
worst of it were the compassionate ones. They’re so easily manipulated, and
the addicts know that.

Now that I think about it, the individual who helped him and his family the
most (and who is currently not speaking to him) is actually one of the biggest
weed users I alluded to earlier. That guy gets more done in a day before most
people even get out of bed.

So yeah, I just can’t take people seriously when they talk about victims of
weed addiction, especially when their opinions are formed based on that
pothead from high school that didn’t go anywhere. It’s comical sounding if you
have any real experience or understanding of these issues.

~~~
dijksterhuis
Not at all. I was well on my way as a deadbeat before this recovery I’m now
in. My point was that being _referred to as a deadbeat_ would incite those 4
points above in varying forms and make me much less willing to seek help.

And no. I’m not a victim of any massive trauma (I’m guessing that’s what you
mean), came from a decent enough middle class family. So not all addicts are a
victim of anything - except the disease.

And, to be clear, whilst I was avoiding responsibility throughout active
addiction, I was avoiding _reality_ far more. That is by far the bigger
problem.

Weed can totally be the reason why someone doesn’t look after their wife and
kids. I’ve caused the exact same problems in my own life! Just because _most_
people can smoke weed fine, doesn’t mean some people don’t completely screw up
their lives with it.

Weed is like the beer of the drugs world. An alcoholic will still ruin lives
even if they can only drink beer. It’s what I’ve done!

FYI, hash was one of my main drugs of choice (alongside cocaine and alcohol).

...

So this is probably most important thing for anyone related/involved to/with
an addict to understand. And I actually came back to add this to the above
when I started rethinking about what you said:

 _SET BOUNDARIES /LIMITS, DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN DRAMA AND DO NOT WAIVER._

Protect yourself first. Then be compassionate/helpful (not overflowing with
sympathy, that’s not compassion) when it is appropriate.

Getting involved in my drama is like crack for me. “Attention from other
people, yeeesssssss!!!”

An addict rarely asks for help honestly. When it happens (honestly), there’s
always something different about how I would be asking. It’s at those moments
when I was totally desperate that the magic could happen.

It doesn’t always work out, unfortunately. But they are the only opportunities
where I’d be willing listen to other people and maybe, just maybe, be willing
to change.

And those moments are where the compassion pays absolute dividends.

At least that’s my experience.

Patience, firm and consistent boundaries, and then compassion as and when
applicable.

...

On a personal note, the whole thing sounds super rough. Maybe not hell, but
still rough.

It’s a horrible disease to live with - as an addict and as someone who cares
about an addict.

My thoughts are with yourself, your extended family and the husband.

------
Medicalidiot
THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) activates cannabinol receptors in one's brain
whenever they smoke cannabis. These receptors are responsible to stimulating
hunger (why you get munchies) but they also stimulate something called long
term depression, which is the process by which your brain forgets memories.
The effects take years to decades for anything significant enough to
precipitate.

Now, I'm not against smoking cannabis just like I'm not against drinking
alcohol. I'm for people understanding the risk factors and being fully
informed before they make a decision.

~~~
MiroF
Source? I would love to be fully informed but I don't think the science is
nearly as settled as you are making it out to be

~~~
Medicalidiot
I was going off my undergraduate neuroscience course when I asked my professor
who has his doctorate in neurophysiology about long term cannabis use. Looking
at Wikipedia ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-
term_effects_of_cannabis#...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-
term_effects_of_cannabis#Memory_and_intelligence)) you're right that it's
fairly inconclusive and there may be some cofounding variables at play which
are preventing us from assigning a firm sequela. Active cannabis users will
have memory deficits.

------
40acres
My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed
schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to
see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine
now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked
a couple of points off his IQ.

I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for
long term studies to better understand marijuana's effects. Unfortunately the
politicization of marijuana has led it, similar to guns, to be woefully
understudied as a topic of public health in the US.

~~~
djsumdog
> as a result developed schizophrenia

I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can
cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are
people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective
conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact
cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

~~~
hartator
Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5%
of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref:
[https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-
reports/mari...](https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-
reports/marijuana/there-link-between-marijuana-use-psychiatric-disorders)

~~~
bregma
Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is
going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

~~~
bduerst
Which of their cited sources are wrong?

[https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-
reports/mari...](https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-
reports/marijuana/references)

Specifically, these peer reviewed science articles:

* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22831980](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22831980)

* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26886046](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26886046)

* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15866551](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15866551)

~~~
bregma
Citing a source doesn't make your message unbiased.

There is a saying "even the devil can quote scripture."

~~~
bduerst
And then even the devil gets pointed out how they used the scripture wrong.
The point being that the data itself is addressed, rather than just ad hom'ing
the devil.

------
mrpigeonpants
For me, teenage recreational cannabis use helped to cure another severe
disease I was struggling with. Unfortunately, since I've gotten older I've had
to slow down a bit. Since then, there's been a gradual progression to the
point where my Dorkinson's has almost fully returned.

~~~
peteradio
Unfortunately Dorkinson's comes for us all.

------
errantspark
In general it seems like a great idea not to use drugs when your brain is
developing. I wish this signal was louder in the zeitgeist. Drugs are just as
much fun at age 25.

------
yodsanklai
I have a very close friends who has been smoking cannabis daily since he was
15 years old. We are both in our 40s now. I have the feeling he is quite fast
thinking and that he has better memory than me. That being said, he isn't a
happy person, his whole life revolves around cannabis and it seems he missed
so many things in his life because of that. It's pretty sad actually. He's
aware of it, but it's such a central part of his life that he just can't stop.

It's always difficult to say if the substance ruined his life, or if he uses
it because he has other problems. Probably both.

I'm all for legalization, as long as people are well informed of the negative
effects of chronic use.

~~~
anon9001
It's a subculture. Being a pothead is culturally very similar to being a gun
nut. If you take a restricted or poorly understood item that provides
enjoyment but is a bit taboo, and give people space to
modify/grow/experiment/etc with it, it's spawns a subculture and people
associate their identity with it.

It happens with hackers too, and porn, and weird nicotine vape culture, and
I'm sure many other things.

~~~
chillwaves
People identify with their hobbies and their consumption habits (music, movie
tastes), or the things they own (car, house, electronics).

I'm not seeing how the pot culture is especially destructive compared to say,
binge watching Netflix.

------
numakerg
> Edible marijuana takes time to absorb and to produce its effects, increasing
> the risk of unintentional overdose

No citation for this. Do they mean a larger than intended dose or a dose that
results in a serious toxic reaction or death?

Better source:

Median lethal THC dose for a 70kg human estimated to be 4g [0], which is
slightly over 1300 full joints (at 3mg per joint) [0]. I won't link them here,
but a cursory web search showed me stores claiming to sell edibles with up to
1000mg of THC.

Also a good read [1] [2]

0\.
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/0095299930900161...](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00952999309001618)

1\.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/srep08126](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep08126)

3\. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/cannabis-overdose-
tox...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/cannabis-overdose-toxicity-
marijuana-1.4816654)

~~~
djsumdog
Is there a listed Median Lethal Dose (LD50) for THC or CBD?

It is possible to overdose on nicotine if it's ingested (50mg ~60mg for a
150lbs adult, according to the CDC's website), but I'm not sure if there is
such an amount defined for THC ingestion.

~~~
SimbaOnSteroids
It's a comically large amount of THC to reach the LD50. 192mg/kg.

~~~
bigguy0720
192mg/kg is on the higher end of estimates, which do range widely because they
are based on animal studies. However, it's not comically large. Do the math,
and it comes to just over 14 grams for a 75 kg (165 lb) adult. That's more
than most people would ever consume in a day, but it's far less than the 600
gram lethal dose of alcohol for that same person. Alcohol kills far more
people because it takes 100 - 250 grams of alcohol for a 75 kg adult to get
drunk, so the lethal dose of alcohol is only about 5X the intoxicating dose
vs. 100X the intoxicating dose for THC.

------
VeninVidiaVicii
One of the implications of this report is absurd. Why does the Surgeon General
feel the need to clarify that one particular aspect of cannabis is
deleterious, when their stance is that the substance is Schedule 1?

~~~
SargeZT
Ultimately because of the CSA the attorney general is responsible for all
decisions on scheduling substances. By the letter of the law, they're supposed
to consult with HHS and by extension the surgeon general, but in reality, it's
a rubberstamped process largely controlled by the DEA.

------
wolco
Talking about Marijuana as this singular substance is demeaning the details.
Different types, strains, turpen profiles, cbd levels, cbn levels all change
the effects.

Does a higher cbd amount change the data? What about changing the levels of
thc. Does hindu kush provide less anxiety vs purple haze over time?

It feels like it's way to early to draw grand conclusions.

------
apl002
Ive smoked for about 15 years now. Started heavy through highschool and
college and after college usually just a rip before bedtime. I cant say I've
experienced anything negative. No issues focusing or memory problems, or
dealing with stress/anxiety. I've quit for months at a time cold turkey with
no issues. I'll probably never fully quit but I am doing it less just cause I
worry about the effects on my lungs more than anything.

~~~
mdorazio
Anecdote like this is bad for two reasons:

1) How do you know you wouldn't have done _better_ had you not smoked starting
in high school? You can't go back in time and A/B test yourself

2) Your personal physiology may be fine with marijuana use, but that's not a
guarantee that the same applies to everyone else. I'm sure plenty of HN
readers (myself included) knew people in high school who _did_ suffer from
marijuana-related focus, effort, and studying problems

~~~
whateveracct
> 1) How do you know you wouldn't have done better had you not smoked starting
> in high school? You can't go back in time and A/B test yourself

It's just high school :) if GP passed and moved on, who cares? High school
success becomes more and more of a boolean outcome as you get further away
from it imo. And tbh even boolean is generous.

"I wish in the past I had tried more things 'cause now I know that being in
trouble is a fake idea."

~~~
monktastic1
> It's just high school :)

What? The parent comment is asking: how do they know they wouldn't have done
better _for the past fifteen_ years if they hadn't started in high school.

------
tempsolution
This sounds weird. It is linked with suicides and decreased life
satisfaction... I wonder how all the other drugs fare, even alcohol and
smoking. How did they factor in the bias that is obviously at play here?

If I am super happy with my life, I will likely not take an excessive amount
of drugs. I would say I am reasonably happy with my life and I like taking
drugs every now and then just for fun and because it feels nice.

The story goes totally different for people with shit lives (which is the
majority of the population unfortunately). If I am already in some sort of
depression, drugs will aggravate these problems. They will show how nice you
can actually feel, just to go back into your sucking life afterwards. Who
wouldn't want to take drugs all day in this scenario?

But that doesn't mean that drugs themselves cause these problems. Same as meat
itself is not unhealthy. The link by statistics is very much against
"Correlation does not imply Causation".

------
bobinaz
These results are, for better or for worse, almost right in line with the
stereotypes.

I smoked occasionally when I was younger, but many of those friends of mine
I’d classify as stoners are noticeably unmotivated and have short attention
spans.

------
DaniloDias
As a teenager- I decided I would wait till I was 22 before I tried Marijuana.
All of my friends were heavy users- and while that made me feel like a bit of
an outsider, I had come to the conclusion that it was better to wait and see
how using turned out for them before I joined in.

That decision was profoundly informative. My high school friends personal and
professional trajectories have been severely hobbled. I don’t believe that
weed is the sole factor, but it certainly didn’t help them become more
ambitious or contribute to their fortitude.

~~~
wannabcodr
Indeed, I succumbed to the habit as a teenager, when I was indoctrinated by
full time users who were also my peers who abused my physically in pre teen
years. Upon starting marijuana usage with these peers, they saw that I reacted
to the substance and proceeded to abuse me psychologically. This planted the
seeds necessary to catalyze a lifetime of delusion and exploration of waste
and dipping my toes into counter culture. Now almost entirely alone and
disconnected from any meaningful social roots, and suicidal much of the way,
I’ve long since disconnected from such malicious people.

The group of friends from high school who didn’t use marijuana ostracized me
by 18 and I stopped being alive since then. Now I’m in my 40’s and have been
preparing for suicide with increasing inevitability since starting weed. I
“gave up” on a fulfilled life as a teenager and have coasted my way to an
inevitable suicide as a “stoner”.

~~~
vangelio
You'd feel a kinship with the author of Psalm 13.

For every time I've been caught in the place described in the first four
verses, Christ has gifted me to see the other side in the last ones.

There's only one way to be sure you'll never have a chance to rejoice like
that, and I pray both that you'll seek help before it comes to that, and that
you'll be granted the same joy it describes.

------
true_tuna
I’m glad this came out. It’s easy to forget that weed causes harm. Just from
my own experience, when I’m on it I can’t think straight, can’t track a
sentence from beginning to end. I can’t imagine where I’d be if those effects
had applied long term as my brain was developing. Actually I can imagine. I’d
be incapable of doing the high-paid, satisfying work I do now. I’d be stuck
doing toilsome work with nowhere to go and a feeling that there’s more but I
can’t quite grasp it.

~~~
zzddffgg
I sometimes I have a feeling this is the case, as a regular user. But to
clarify, I'm struggling with understanding differential geometry, and work as
an se. Not trying to humblebrag but just trying to establish context. Should I
be worried? I ask because I experience some of the same symptoms you do.

------
philip1209
> Marijuana is also commonly used by adolescents, second only to alcohol

I wonder if nicotine has exceeded this since the cited study (due to
e-cigarettes)

~~~
hsk823
Nicotine has never been considered an intoxicant, thus not relatable here.

This advisory isn't about telling people drugs are bad, it's about our society
still frowning upon recreational intoxication and trying to scare people out
of even seeing if cannabis or other substances can be beneficial to them.

------
stevev
I’m curious, has there been any related deaths to cannabis usage? Why is this
plant illegal when Alcohol has killed millions?

~~~
umvi
Alcohol is legal because it's impossible to ban it seeing as you can make it
from anything that has sugar in it, which is basically all foods.

If cannibis were used as much as alcohol in driving settings, I'm certain
there would be thousands of annual DUI deaths.

~~~
lawlessquestion
I'd be willing to bet there's overall more miles of people driving stoned then
drunk.

------
anon234345566
I decided to share a bit. Some of you already shared about differents effects
of THC in different people. This is an example. We need this drug intensively
tested, without any political or cultural bias.

Well, I'm the mother of a 5+ years old kid, and we are using THC oil with him,
under medical control. My kid had been early diagnosed with a case of extreme
anxiety at the age of 2-3 years old (you can't precisely diagnose this),
imagine it as a case of autism without several syntoms; he was already well
into the second year being medicated with risperidone + carbamazepine which
allowed him to have a more or less standard life.

But, starting at 4 years old the stress related to extra requirements in
school began to be highly crippling for him again. Then we asked our
neurologist about THC.

We were advised by him, and then contacted a parent of an autistic adult who
regularly use THC to be able to function (preventing extremely violent
reactions).

So we tried it, precisely dosifying the oil, without leaving the other drugs.
THC works in my kid allowing him to remain calm under extreme stress.

It is really a process but the main - under the table, because is illegal here
to use THC, not talking about giving it to kids - medical advise is to use THC
like ibuprofen. If you see the kid is having a bad time trying to control
himself, you give him a dose of oil. If the kid is going to have a stressful
day in school, you give him a stronger dose.

I have personally never consumed drugs previous to THC. That was because when
I buyed the oil, I tried it to know exactly what effects would be going
through my kid. With new batches of oil we use to test it in minimal doses
(this is a requirement from the neurologist: we buy oil specifically made for
medical purposes - more expensive - but the process is handmade, and different
batches could be slightly more soft or stronger in its effects).

If you have a medical issue with a kid, and you're out of solutions, then you
usually get to this point. That was my case, and the cases of several parents
with I have contacted since we started this path.

THC as you could probably read in many sites in the internet could have a lot
more effects in people than causing anxiety and delusional states of mind.

What the article says could be just true, but as with many legal drugs, for
example diazepam, the effects are REALLY different if "standard" person
consumes it, than when a person with extreme anxiety uses it.

------
momow
I'm surprised nobody caught that the Surgeon General's advisory text mentions
"physical dependence", a term that is not used once in the referenced source.
I'm no doctor, but physical and psychological difference seem quite different.

~~~
cgb223
When you quit smoking weed users will frequently experience insomnia,
depression, anxiety, etc

It’s not a death sentence, but it’s definitely incentive for people to keep
smoking to avoid those effects

------
imvetri
People complain about the bad sides of it. - memory dysfunction is the root of
all effects.

If you loose memory why do you care. Did you worry about memory when you were
kid?

Practice learning by self experience not by reading other researchers work. It
works only for them.so discard it.

It's a holy herb and cleans your mind.

If you had memory issues it probably removed things that you don't like.

Now start looking what else you are. You can't. Because you wasted your time
with social influences.

Instead practice meditation.

Worship your mind. Keep it disciplined.

One man's took another man's weapons.

If you are a fool, you will remain a fool.

Stay cool, and think what you can do.

It changes perspection. If you don't embrace it, you will see it's a loose
shoe lace.

Be original, learn to be good and right. Expand your knowledge from there.

Memory is killed because it kills unhealthy influence you had and you forced
yourself to be that.

Be grateful that it gave you memory issue.

Rebuild yourself from cleaned mind.

Being Grateful comes from meditation.

Once weed kills bad memories, being grateful helps you grow knowledge from the
pure memory.

------
telaelit
When I was 16 I started smoking weed almost everyday until I was 20, I took a
break until I was 22, and now I live in a legal state and I enjoy a joint or
two on the weekends. I haven't had any problems whatsoever. I work as a
software engineer and I got all As throughout school.

I realize this might not be the case for everyone, but that has been my
experience.

~~~
jimbokun
So sounds like its Russian Roulette, some adolescents may not suffer many ill
effects, and for others it will be really bad.

So probably better not to take that chance.

~~~
ozzmotik
well i mean you can frame any question of probability as russian roulette if
you were determined to. the difference is, you go into russian roulette where
absolutely dying is a guaranteed possible outcome, whereas what you were
responding to exists more on a spectrum of possibilities, all subject to
different risk factors external to this metaphorical game of russian roulette.
im js that in terms of the game parameters, i think it's difficult to map
something with so few to something with so many effectively.

------
superkuh
These are all reasonable things. Legalizing it will drastically mitigate the
ability for minors to get a hold of any just as was done with the much more
dangerous and deadly drug, alcohol.

~~~
umvi
> Legalizing it will drastically mitigate the ability for minors to get a hold
> of any

I can't tell if you are joking or not (sorry). But I simply don't believe
this. Why would legalizing it make it _harder_ for minors to get ahold of it?

~~~
Broken_Hippo
When one is underage, it is easier to get illegal drugs than legal ones. The
legality makes different sorts of barriers and different sorts of penalties
for selling to a minor. I'm not sure it mattered if you were (are) selling pot
to a 18 year old rather than a 30 year old - you were still selling pot. You
would get in trouble for giving an 18 year old alcohol, though, but not the 30
year old. And a bunch of things like this.

~~~
umvi
On the other hand if you were a minor that wanted to use illegal drugs, you
had to have the right friends/contacts to know _where_ make illegal purchases.

Legality makes it so that now _everyone_ knows where to buy it (at any store)
and now minors just experiment a few times until they find a lax vendor just
like they do with Juuls. After all, minors are not penalized for merely
_attempting_ to buy something.

And, like I put in my other comment, it doesn't really matter if the barrier
for minors buying drugs is higher if the act of legalization increases the
number of minors attempting to buy the drug by an astronomical factor.

------
pubgforme
Smoking weed for me, at least in my early years (16-18, I'm 29 now) yielded a
ton of anxiety. At the time I didn't know, but I would get full-blown anxiety
attacks when I'd smoke weed.

I've since heard that it depends on the strain, sativa vs indica. Indica ==
'in da couch'; anxiety attacks. Sativa is supposed to be a more mellow high.

While I don't smoke often now, I do on occasion. I've found that I tend to get
anxiety in the beginning, but I've learned to sort of brush it off/ignore it
and enjoy my trip.

Food for thought.

------
sarcasmatwork
Been around for thousands of years for 1. No one has died from an OD of it.
Also, Patent No. 6,630,507

------
HillaryBriss
another risk factor for cannabis users is contamination by pesticides. many of
the illegal grow sites in California national forests have been contaminated
by Carbofuran, a banned pesticide. this chemical is applied to the plants.
these operations still supply a large fraction of consumer marijuana demand.
if you're gonna toke, know your weed supply chain.

