
More Fires Now Burning in Angola, Congo Than Amazon - adventured
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-23/more-fires-now-burning-in-angola-congo-than-amazon-maps
======
guhcampos
I see many fellow Brazilians have already made their points here, but I feel
some clarification is due.

First of all: forest fires are common here, and they are part of the natural
cicle of the forest themselves. The real problem is not the size or count of
those fires, but where they are happening. Deforestation has been blatant in
Brazil for decades, but years of increased regulation had them on a continuous
decreasing trend. Under the new government, however, it has surged again. Some
sources mention deforestation areain 2019 might reach double the amount of
2018, although it's hard to trust any such information these days due to
political appropriation of data and information channels.

So with more deforestation, these fires are cutting deeper into the forest,
into areas previously not touched by fire, some of which may never recover. As
I mentioned: such fires are common, but at the edge of the forest where plant
and wildlife are adapted to them. The ecosystem of the deeper jungle is
completely different, and species from the edges, when not dead, are forced
into areas they did not live before, either in or out of the forest. The
impact of this movements is hard to predict, but bound to be disastrous.

It would be bad enough if this was related to a more global climate trend or a
natural cicle of things. What really hurts though is the fact that many of
these fires are, however, intentionally started by people, driven by
commercial interest in either developing or farming the land, almost always
illegally, and as of recently encouraged by our very government officials.

So, yeah, things are pretty bad, but hey have been so for a while and even if
the numbers are worse in Angola and Congo, the conjunction of natural and
political causes need to be taken into account.

~~~
yostrovs
How are the fires encouraged? What does the different do exactly to promote
them?

~~~
guhcampos
There's this rethoric of blaming environmental laws for slowing down
development or shrinking the economy, along with an almost childish "Europe
has burned down their forests now they want ours" too.

Justified by that, the government has aggressively cut budgets for multiple
agencies responsible for environmental enforcement and monitoring, including a
few high profile cases which led to the heads of INPE (Brasil's NASA) and
ICMBio (which manages all National Parks) to resign in frustration.

------
Spoppys
I found these live maps while researching the Brazilian fires earlier. Not
sure if anyone will find them interesting

[https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/](https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/)

[http://viirsfire.geog.umd.edu/map/viirsMap.php](http://viirsfire.geog.umd.edu/map/viirsMap.php)

~~~
squarefoot
Thanks, they're so useful. It would be fantastic if one could draw some graphs
indicating the amount of fires in the same area for the same time frame (say
mid summer) but in different years. Does anyone know if there is such a
feature? It would help to investigate politically motivated arsons by finding
correlation with various events. The amount of fires we had in Rome/Italy in
2017 raised too many flags in my head; I recall days during that summer where
one couldn't turn in a direction where there weren't one or more fires in
sight, and I for myself got intoxicated while helping friends to fight one
that was getting very close to their home. Some of those arsons were started
in mid morning, before 11 am, when the already dim chances to have a
spontaneous fire drop below zero, and I perfectly recalled the smell of smoke
bombs (very often used at the stadium) while passing by near one just put out
by the firefighters. My theory is that some "entity" wanted either to send a
message to the new mayor or make her waste as much as of the city funds to
fight fires (firefighters, trucks, helicopters, planes etc cost a fortune) so
that she and the council would be much easier to fight at the following
elections. Putting time and events on paper could help to connect the dots.

~~~
chrisco255
This site has the data from 2003-2019 in the Amazon region:
[https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html?fbclid=IwAR1PLY...](https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html?fbclid=IwAR1PLYS0eIDttSqnJECMaGu-2E7IEZdQ35KVs7wwYAZ8Zz0fKQv-
LKmj4wk#totals)

------
millisecond
Anyone have a reference for fire area in all these places? All the stories
I’ve seen use “number of fires” which seems useless to figure out
severity/comparisons.

~~~
dredmorbius
I've been keeping tabs on various atmospheric (and ocean and space) conditions
via the Nullschool Earth viewer:
[https://earth.nullschool.org/](https://earth.nullschool.org/)

Different conditions and sensors can be selected, including both particulat
(PM2.5 especially) and CO concentrations, both of which are strongly (though
not exclusively) associated with wildfires. SO4 is another combustion-related
emission, though also associated with power plants, shipping (major shipping
lanes are _very sharply_ visible), and volcanic erruptions (see especially the
Kiril Islands, north of Japan).

Looking at PM2.5, Here's the current view over Brazil:

[https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/24/1700Z/particulates/...](https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/24/1700Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=-75.77,0.43,388/loc=-55.642,-11.192)

And over Congo:

[https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/24/1700Z/particulates/...](https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/24/1700Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=23.56,-8.13,776/loc=21.239,-8.998)

And a year ago, 24 August 2018, over ...

Brazil:

[https://earth.nullschool.net/#2018/08/24/0500Z/particulates/...](https://earth.nullschool.net/#2018/08/24/0500Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=-61.03,-14.64,776/loc=-63.600,-10.920)

Congo:

[https://earth.nullschool.net/#2018/08/24/0500Z/particulates/...](https://earth.nullschool.net/#2018/08/24/0500Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=23.56,-8.13,776/loc=21.239,-8.998)

You can see other sensor information or skip forward or back a few days or
weeks to see what trends are like.

I'd not done this until just now, and frankly, it appears that last year's
smoke activity was actually greater, though the 2019 fires may have been worse
several days ago (there's been pronounced global political backlash).

The "day of burning" was the 19th as I recall, let's look back a few days ...
OK, unlike the timeslices above, this one is selected as a more active
capture, on August 19, 2019, though a few later periods are comparable:

[https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/20/0300Z/particulates/...](https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/20/0300Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=-74.71,-28.19,776/loc=-63.600,-10.920)

OT: Watching for unusual activity can be interesting. For example, it appears
one of the East African Rift volcanos may just have lit up in Ethiopia,
_probably_ Erta Ale (the most active continuously errupting volcano on Earth),
though there are others in the general vicinity:

[https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/24/1500Z/chem/surface/...](https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/24/1500Z/chem/surface/level/overlay=cosc/orthographic=44.66,10.16,3000/loc=41.263,13.130)

(All Nullschool links should be to date-anchored snapshots. You can expand the
controls by tapping "Earth". "Now" will show current / most recently reported
conditions.)

~~~
fromthestart
Wow, side note, compare China/SE Asia PM2.5 to the rest of the world.

~~~
dredmorbius
Yeah, that's pretty stunning. Sulfur Oxide emissions also.

Though if you hit up January and look at SO4 emissions over the US and Europe,
they're pretty terrifying as well.

Spotting wildfires by PM2.5 emissions is a part-time hobby, as is looking at
MSLP and watching cyclonic storms developing. It looks as if the Atlantic
hurricane season may start cooking off in the next week or so.

Not all channels have forecast values, but temps, winds, pressures, and precip
do, so you can roll out a few days to see what the models are projecting. I've
followed (and anticipated) most of the big storms over the past few years.
Some false starts (a lot of swirls never really develop), but it was painfully
obvious that Harvy and Florence were going to be massive storms.

In the Pacific, the unrelenting assaults on the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan,
and mainland China are impressive.

~~~
steve19
What is a good source of data for spotting wildfires? Any APIs that can give
me hot spots in a region?

~~~
dredmorbius
Generally, I'll take a look at the PM2.5 channel on occasion. Swapping that
for CO (carbon monoxide) is usually a good confirmation.

While wood smoke contributes a lot of PM2.5, other sources can as well -- dust
over the Sahara (and much of the Atlantic), salt spray from hurricanes, and a
few others, which aren't direction or at all combustion related.

CO tends to hover near urban areas -- you'll spot concentrations especially
near Los Angeles, New York, and Chicago.

Sulfur Dioxide is also related to combustion, usually heavy fuel oils.
Shipping traffic lights up especially, but so do industrial sources
(generators), many volcanos, and some others I haven't worked out.

Nullschool doesn't have an IR channel, but Nasa's Modis can turn that up.
There are generally national or regional wildfire websites, particularly for
the US, Canada, and Australia, as well as California and other western US
states.

(Fire activity so far this year has been pretty low in the US.)

If you spend a few weeks looking at data (or browsing through historical
data), you get a pretty good idea of what patterns are typical.

Note also: some sensors / channels get recallibrated from time to time. There
was a _big_ adjustment in CO2 measurements a year or so back, which kind of
freaked me out. Whilst CO2 concentrations are gradually increasing, they did
_not_ take a massive jump in the past 5 years, despite appearing to do so from
the Nullschool history.

Also, as noted, sometimes stuff shows up that's not fires. The current
Ethiopian volcano erruption would be a case in point (I _think_ it's a
volcano, seems very likely).

------
wtdata
Besides this, there are reports from serious agencies (NASA is one of them)
stating that what is happening on Amazon is on par with what has been
happening at least in the previous 15 years (I think that's how far their data
goes). [1]

I am lead to believe that all the media attention in this past week to the
problem, is a mix of political staging and sensacionalism. If it was really
due to environmental concerns, the same responses we are seeing now, would
have already happened many years ago under Lula and Dilma governments, given
that the scale of the problem is the same.

[1] [https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-
bra...](https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-brazil)

~~~
Kye
When would be an appropriate time for people to become aware of the problem
and start caring? I don't see how the motivation matters. The problem is real
even if most people weren't aware of it until now.

~~~
wtdata
My point is that, at least other governments, were aware of it for a long
time. In my opinion they are only raising the concern now for political gain
(at least in cases like Macron).

But I agree, let's do it now, it really needs to be done as soon as possible,
but, it can't depend its continuation and the countries it gets applied to, on
whatever political wing is in power there.

The action needs to be global, with clear rules, and applied on every case, no
exceptions.

------
modo_
Is there any discussion around the extent of the macro climactic effect of
many wildfires burning simultaneously around the globe? How much will these
events contribute to warming?

~~~
bsaul
I may take your comment wrong, but i feel like everybody’s becoming a bit
hysterical regarding climate warming. I feel like media are surfing on
population fears ( as usual) but that for some reason, the scientific minds
are completely unable to take a step back, and keep their cool.

Why do you think a small percentage increase on natural forest fires happening
every year or so will have any kind of meaningful worldwide effect on
temperature ?

~~~
situational87
Coastlines are surging and eroding. Today. Right now. This is not a fictional
problem.

~~~
chrisco255
Just to give you some perspective on the scale of sea level rise, which has
been occurring since the end of the ice age:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post-
Glacial_Sea_Lev...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post-
Glacial_Sea_Level.png)

------
dictum
The Minister of the Environment of Brazil tweeted the same article.
[https://mobile.twitter.com/rsallesmma/status/116526244201383...](https://mobile.twitter.com/rsallesmma/status/1165262442013835266)

(Yesterday, he said the Amazon should be _monetized_. With no other business
plan besides a vague desire for increased ecotourism, the fires are the first
step towards monetization.)

~~~
hu3
> Yesterday, he said the Amazon should be monetized. With no other business
> plan besides a vague desire for increased ecotourism, the fires are the
> first step towards monetization

Mind sharing the source?

~~~
dictum
Paywalled (FT)
[https://www.ft.com/content/f791bbc6-c2c3-11e9-a8e9-296ca6651...](https://www.ft.com/content/f791bbc6-c2c3-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9)

> “The fact is that laws and regulations that were enacted and used for the
> past 10 or 20 years were too restrictive to the development of Amazon areas.
> That is why people go over to the illegal activities, to the criminal
> activities, because they don’t have a space to do something within the law,”
> Ricardo Salles said in an interview with the Financial Times.

~~~
hu3
I like the idea! Tourism is a great way to fund preservation.

~~~
dictum
This can work for smaller areas. Tourists get to see the result of
preservation because can experience almost the full extent of the territory.
However, for a larger area of which most parts are boring, unsafe and hard to
reach, it's hard to cover preservation with such funds.

Bolsonaro is unhappy with one such arrangement, covering a much smaller area:
visitors pay a $50 fee, collected by the federal government, to enter the
archipelago of Fernando de Noronha for a 10 day stay. He wants to the abolish
the fee.

Given his general outlook on taxes, I don't see how tourism could fund
preservation, except for increasing its scale to a predatory level.

[https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/cotidiano/2019/07/taxa-de-
fern...](https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/cotidiano/2019/07/taxa-de-fernando-de-
noronha-e-roubo-diz-bolsonaro.shtml) (in Portuguese)

------
lostlogin
I’m picking it’s something automated that’s gone astray as immediately below
the article is a link to Amazons stock price. “In this article AMZN AMAZON.COM
INC 1,749.62USD-55.98-3.10%”

~~~
knolan
I’d imagine the recent sale of Amazon Fire products is having similar
unfortunate behaviour.

------
tomohawk
It's always interesting to see what gets put into the news ahead of the big
meetups like G7, and how that dovetails with the narrative that is being
pushed.

Of course, this destruction of rainforest is not a good thing, but it is not a
new thing.

------
Jedi72
I hear there are people protesting outside embassies about the Amazon fires. I
agree with that, but I hope people carry it through to protesting Australian
embassies aswell. We're just as guilty of destroying the Great Barrier Reef
for profit (I'm Australian). Seems unfair to single out Brazil.

~~~
mycall
I thought the bleaching of the GB reef was due to higher nitrates in the water
runoff as well as temperature rising.

~~~
Sendotsh
Probably referring to this:

[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/16/why-
adanis-...](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/16/why-adanis-
planned-carmichael-coalmine-matters-to-australia-and-the-world)

------
olivermarks
I think we are seeing the weaponization of climate hysteria being used for
regime change of the Jair Bolsonaro government. Not a fan of Jair Bolsonaro or
burning forests, just making that point.

~~~
scythe
I doubt there will be any regime change, it’s just a few loudmouths on twitter
overestimating the EU’s ability to bully Brazil, much like Trump overestimated
the US’s ability to bully Mexico. China, Japan, India, and maybe even a post-
Brexit UK will have no problem picking up the demand if Europe “retaliates”.
Dictatorships thrive on this kind of conflict and mistrust.

------
buboard
I can't read the article, what's up with fires? Fires are also a natural part
of wild forest renewal. Are there unusally more fires worldwide this year?

~~~
seltzered_
They aren’t necessarily naturally triggered, and post-burn the land may be
misused into industrial agriculture rather than restorative/forest regrown.

Start here: [https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/leaked-
do...](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/leaked-documents-
show-brazil-bolsonaro-has-grave-plans-for-amazon-rainforest/)

------
fortran77
Why do you think they're getting less attention?

------
bsanr2
Torn between, "Glad to see that, 'This news topic concerning death nd
destruction is nearing the end of its cycle, let's see if we can extend it a
bit by finally highlighting the problems that have sorely needed solving even
longer in Africa,' is still a thing" and, "Someone wants to take the heat off
of Bolsonaro using the tried-and-true method of exclaiming, 'Yeah well African
governments are doing even worse!'".

~~~
eloff
Not everything is a grand conspiracy. In fact, most things are not. This is
most likely getting attention now, because it's related to the Amazon fires
which successfully got our attention.

~~~
bsanr2
It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. Just an annoyingly prevalent viewpoint
among journalists. (See also: referring to things happening in specific
locations Nigeria, Sudan, DRC, etc. as happening in "Africa".)

