
Forget Basic Income – We Need Guaranteed Employment - noego
https://outlookzen.com/2016/12/17/forget-basic-income-we-need-guaranteed-employment/
======
mimixco
Why should people be guaranteed employment if they don't offer skills
employers want? Out of kindness?

If you own a business, would you like to be forced to hire someone because the
government says you have to? If you pay taxes, would you like them to go to
otherwise unproductive people just because those people feel they should have
jobs?

The competitive nature of the work world is necessary to keep people motivated
to strive to do better and to make them adjust to the needs of today's market.
Otherwise, we'd still be paying telegraph operators. We can't all put stairs
on Morrow Rock or join the Peace Corp. Someone has to do work that provides
value, not just a handout.

~~~
ddingus
There is a ton of work that needs to be done. The Federal and State
governments can commission that work, and employ people to do it, and do so
paying living wages.

Private business can get involved on a contract basis too.

All our national parks could use a second round of WPA / CCC type treatment.

Massive cleanup basically almost everywhere.

Infrastructure is a real mess. Let's get on that, Interstate Highway Project
style.

Do all of these things as public works, no tolls and BS, and let's capture the
economic gains we got last time we did this kind of work.

Everyone will benefit, and the labor applied to the nation makes it worth
more. The wages are direct economic stimulus, which will improve demand.

In terms of basic competition, wages will come up. People can point to the
good, basic jobs, improved demand and ask for the same from their employers,
and have some reasonable expectation of getting it.

I do not want any business forced to do a damn thing, other than comply with
the regulations necessary for equitable market rules and public /
environmental safety.

I do want the government to put people to work and in the course of doing
that, add a lot of value to the nation, stimulate the economy (which we all
benefit from), and pull down the poverty numbers by paying reasonable, living
wages.

We are a monetary sovereign. I'm tired of being told we can't put our own to
work, do so in a manner that makes sense for everyone, and labor our way right
out of this funk we are in. Done right, the new opportunity created will prove
attractive for private investment, just like it did last time when we did the
Interstate Highway Project, the improved wage expectations and people earning
it will improve demand, and, and, and.

Business can do whatever it wants.

The two things you mentioned do provide value, along with many other similar
things and it's long past time we start valuing those things. As a people,
through government, we can do that, and we should.

~~~
mimixco
So, taxes, then?

You can see where the problem is here. Sure, there's always work to be done.
But who wants to _pay_ for it? You said business doesn't want to. So it would
have to come from the Treasury. I don't think you'd find wide support for
taxation for those kind of projects.

~~~
ddingus
Depends.

Things like sane health care policy, this public labor, are all priority
questions.

If we continue with huge military, then yes, but we do not have to play it
that way at all.

Unlike a great many military actions, public works are investments that pay
themselves off. We can absolutely spend, and let those returns pay the debt.

We should only be raising taxes on costs, not investments. And the public
needs to understand which is which too.

Might begin to question the military actions. They are a massive drain, and
given a priority discussion, an honest one, just may not be found necessary.

New priorities could yield insights like green energy infrastructure is needed
like the Interstate Highway System was, and will pay itself off like that
system did, and once paid off, will contiune to deliver returns that can pay
down other past spends, that were costs, not investments, that did not deliver
returns too.

Spends that make us worth more, are investments, not costs, and do not require
an increase in taxes to do. They never have.

We will find support for doing those things. We will find more support when
education on the differences is done too.

Right now, there is not much. I call that a disservice and manipulation for
profit, as well as short sighted.

We need the new opportunities. The outcome does benefit everyone.

------
WheelsAtLarge
Basic income does nothing to help since most people will fall in a hole where
good enough is good enough so there won't be any reason to move forward in
life. Free money leads nowhere.

Guaranteed employment makes a lot of sense. Create something similar to a
Peace Corp where people are paid to help out different communities or work at
public works that need to be done. No matter how much automation can be
created there will always be things where humans will be the prefared way to
accomplish a job.

------
nutcracker46
What? You can't guarantee employment. You can guarantee death and taxes. Do
the efficient thing: eliminate the vast welfare bureaucracy and simply pay
basic income. While you're at it, eliminate a great deal of tax bureacracy and
change to a flat tax on consumption.

------
wmf
Counterpoints: [https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/16/basic-income-not-
basic...](https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/16/basic-income-not-basic-jobs-
against-hijacking-utopia/)

