
Double life as a KGB agent - whitenoice
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/11/thought-smarter-everybody-kgb-spy-jack-barsky
======
Pyxl101
A fair number of sleeper agents like this have been outed over the years.
Another example that comes to mind is the KGB agent couple on which the TV
show "The Americans" was based:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-
our...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our-parents-
were-russian-spies-tim-alex-foley)

FBI Operation Ghost Stories arrested 11 people back in 2010.
[https://vault.fbi.gov/ghost-stories-russian-foreign-
intellig...](https://vault.fbi.gov/ghost-stories-russian-foreign-intelligence-
service-illegals/images)

What I'm wondering is: how many other agents are out there and haven't been
caught yet? Or were here and left without being caught?

I wonder if this type of agent is still in active use, in the sense of seeding
more of them. Given the arrests just 7 years ago, I'd guess so. But perhaps
not, since hacking and electronic surveillance can be so effective. You don't
necessarily need an agent within a country's borders to penetrate a lot of
their networks, email, and other communications.

But you never know ... what lengths would Russia go to to get an agent TS/SCI
clearance and access to a SCIF?

~~~
ethbro
One of the inefficiencies of embedding agents like this seems to be that
they're subject to the same vagaries of chance as all of us.

What are the chances of an agent being hired and then promoted to have access
to an SCI file you're interested in?

It seems a pretty poor bet compared to turning individuals already in relevant
positions.

~~~
im3w1l
You can provide them with covert help. If they have a team of 10 people
helping them out, they will seem like a 10x performer...

~~~
nradov
Any help the Soviets would have provided those agents would have also
increased the risk of detection due to the unavoidable contacts with the
helpers.

------
pjc50
For people who like this sort of thing: [https://www.lrb.co.uk/v10/n16/paul-
foot/the-great-times-they...](https://www.lrb.co.uk/v10/n16/paul-foot/the-
great-times-they-could-have-had) (on the British Royal family being
infiltrated by fascists).

The TV series _Deutchland 83_ is also well worth watching for a snappy spy
drama about a young man from East Germany being coerced into being a double
agent.

~~~
piplgobde
Lovely series, but first thing I thought of when reading the article was _The
Americans_ , it's about two spies in the Soviet illegals program living in a
DC suburb.

Would definitely recommend it if you liked _Deutschland 83_.

~~~
DerekL
Jack Barsky was interviewed for the behind-the-scenes podcast for _The
Americans_. I think he might work as a consultant for the show, but I'm not
sure.

[http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/03/24/a_former_kgb_...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/03/24/a_former_kgb_agent_on_how_the_americans_compares_to_his_own_experiences.html)

------
CalChris
In the end, it all seems so mundane. Secretive to be sure, but a talented life
accomplishing nothing. Well, maybe an improvement on East Germany in the 80s
but that's it.

~~~
RealityVoid
I remember reading a book about Gunther Guillaume, an east-german spy in
Germany. The same feeling resonated throughout the book, the job is, as you
said, secretive, but mundane. Interestingly, I would expect people that choose
to go into this line of work to know this, since most all realistic books and
media leave show how utterly lonely and boring it is. On the other hand, I
guess there are spy handlers ane their life might be more... exciting?

~~~
meowface
Being a spymaster sounds far more fun and interesting than being a spy.

~~~
mathattack
It seems worse to me. Just sorting through all these memos trying to figure
out which people are and aren't important, and which data may be relevant. id
the business is mundane, middle management isn't exciting.

~~~
meowface
I don't know, I'd find that kind of analysis a lot more fun than living a
mundane line for decades just for a chance of learning some interest info.

------
akoster
60 minutes produced a segment about him. Here is the transcript:
[http://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-kgb-spy-jack-barsky-
steve...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-kgb-spy-jack-barsky-steve-
kroft-60-minutes/)

------
diebir
This sounds true and similar to what I thought it would be, based on how
laughably bad were the Russian "illegals" caught in 2010. It is virtually
impossible to fit in having been born and raised in a different culture. Even
simply the accent is almost impossible to overcome (women seem to have better
luck defeating the accent than men and you have a chance up to the age of 17
or so).

The Americans is a cool show, but the real life illegals could not fool
anyone.

These days Russia probably has no need for this type of presence, since there
are enough Russians living in the US and enough of them support Putin that a
small percentage may choose to work as spies. Same for China.

Another interesting detail that came out of the 2010 illegal bust was that
America is so diverse and people are so respectful of privacy, that one of the
spies was doing just fine with an American name ("Jack Ryan" or "Patric Foley"
or something like), fully American "legend" and a heavy Russian accent. People
wondered but nobody asked any questions.

P.S. And who needs spies when you can have a whole administration? :)

~~~
TezlaKoil
> Even simply the accent is almost impossible to overcome (women seem to have
> better luck defeating the accent than men and you have a chance up to the
> age of 17 or so).

Accent reduction does not work for everyone (see e.g. Bela Lugosi), but its
success rate is much better than what your post would suggest.

Three of the 2010 illegals (Chapman, Mills and Zottoli) had Russian accents.
Their neighbors knew that they were Russian, and said that they never tried to
conceal their national background. On the other hand, nobody could tell that
Heathfield and Foley weren't real Americans.

------
EternalData
Crazy story. It's amazing what a state power can get individuals to do for it.

------
walterkobayashi
Amazing story!

------
kev009
I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But
wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by
Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism
right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence
community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty
comical.

~~~
arkades
I lost my respect for the Guardian a while back. They were reporting on
hostilities in Israel.

They had a side-bar for "Related Articles", which were one after the other -
critical of Israel as being an unprovoked aggressor. Fine, if that's the
truth, except:

Every article I opened had a long lead-in about Israeli aggression, its
consequences, etc. Every article had buried in the last paragraph, practically
mumbling under its breath, "The IDF moved in because they were repeatedly
being attacked by RPGs &tc." Nothing was provided to suggest the IDF was lying
or incorrect about being provoked - so why was one headline after the other
all about characterizing unprovoked unilateral aggression?

I was done. It's fine to be critical of Israeli policies and military
posturing; it's another to essentially lie through your teeth and then cover
your ass in postscript.

~~~
markdown
Israel is occupying Palestine. When Palestinians fight back, Israelis can't
claim to have been provoked, when their occupation is the original
provocation.

It's like claiming Hitler just justified in killing 6 million jews because
after he killed 1 million, a few jews tried to fight back, and he had to kill
another 5 million because he was provoked.

~~~
angry_octet
I think "original provocation" is a little hard to claim when we are talking
about Jerusalem. Even in recent history, the '48 Arab-Israeli war, pan-Arab
forces attempted to crush the nascent Jewish enclave.

Also, I find your Holocaust allusion extremely tasteless.

~~~
markdown
> Even in recent history, the '48 Arab-Israeli war, pan-Arab forces attempted
> to crush the nascent Jewish enclave.

If you're going that far back, why not just a handful of years earlier?
Palestine getting flooded with immigrants whose sole purpose was to replace
the incumbent population and establish their own state.

The American far right is terrified that muslims are going to take over an
establish sharia law... all based on nonsense. The Palestinians _actually had
that happen to them_ , and you don't think they were justified in feeling
invaded?

> Also, I find your Holocaust allusion extremely tasteless.

Of course it was. That was why it was said. I find your defence of the Israeli
apartheid and their continued occupation of Palestine and brutal oppression of
a hopeless people to be just as tasteless.

EDIT: In any case, thank you for explaining the original downvote, unlike the
others.

~~~
angry_octet
The Jewish flight from Europe and concurrent Zionism is significantly
different is character to the current Israeli behaviour, which is undoubtedly
seeking to illegally expel Palestinians from the West Bank. But to say that
the Palestinians and their allies had no role in this process is also absurd.
The plight of the Palestinians is dire, but their actions must also be
weighted. In many ways they have the Israelis they deserve, and the Israelis
have the Hamas they deserve.

The American far right is so disconnected from reality and humanity as to
render their arguments null and void. I am not arguing their positions.

I don't think though that any mass migration of a persecuted people is an
invasion, no matter how much the current inhabitants don't like them.

When the state of Israel was attacked by an existential threat it defended
itself, and it now occupies the terrain required to defend itself. The
continual threat from Syria more than justifies holding the Golan Heights. The
rocket attacks from Gaza on heavily populated areas (and control by Hamas)
certainly justify some blockade. The West Bank territory squeezes so close to
Tel Aviv that ceding it to a regime that might rocket them is impossible.

The Israelis use of heavy weapons on Gaza is indefensible, as are the
continued growth of West Bank settlements. But they fall short of being
comparable in any way with the Holocaust.

~~~
markdown
Well argued. Thank you for sharing your opinions on what is obviously a very
complex issue.

------
myf01d
Just like engineers, they think they are smart and they are changing the world
and blablabla but it is actually all about billions and power going to the big
guys

~~~
warent
This comment comes across as small minded and pessimistic without real
evidence. Scientists and engineers typically help the world, with or without
money. See Gates, Stallman, Page & Brin, Clair Cameron Patterson, etc

~~~
quakeguy
To expand, Oppenheimer, Turing, Feynman and even Gauss come to mind. Really
stupid comment.

~~~
sn9
Those weren't engineers. Mathematicians and physicists, really.

~~~
patrick_haply
The KGB spy from the article itself wasn't even an engineer, but a chemist.

