

Most profitable movie ever was also most pirated of 2010 - Bud
http://torrentfreak.com/avatar-crowned-the-most-pirated-movie-of-2010-101220/

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quanticle
In other news, the most popular car is also the most stolen one.

I'm not trying to draw a comparison between piracy and theft, but is this
article telling us anything other than popular things are, well, popular?

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sigzero
No...but piracy IS theft none the less.

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kbutler
> No...but piracy IS theft none the less.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property
belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of
it." (English Theft Act 1968 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft>)

"Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner as
provided by sections 106 through 122 or of the author as provided in section
106A(a), or who imports copies or phonorecords into the United States in
violation of section 602, is an infringer of the copyright or right of the
author, " <http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html>

"copyright infringement" != "theft"

kb

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mtw
I believe this tells us a lot. The torrent crowd does not represent exactly
the moviegoers audience. Lots of downloaders would never go to the movies,
even if they crave a movie, it represent different age groups, different
behaviours

For instance, "Kick Ass" which is largely a film designed for geeks, is #2
even though it only did $98 million at the box office. You've got to wonder
why it's ahead of Inception. In the same way, "Alice in Wonderland" did $1.02
billion in 2010 but it's not on the top 10. The torrent demographic is
probably the same one that'd jailbreak the iPhone or use Android more than the
rest of the society. A demographic immune to marketing, which can sort out
good movies from bad perhaps better than the press, but also biased towards a
certain type of movies (Kick Ass, action hero etc.)

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klbarry
Certainly not immune from marketing! They are immune from marketing that's not
targeted towards them, and perhaps from movie studios, but everyone has their
actions affected based on some form of mass persuasion.

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BrandonM
An interesting note about _Kick-Ass_ is that it's pretty widely known* that
director Matthew Vaughn is planning to release an extended cut which has over
18 minutes of deleted material. I loved the movie and would definitely
purchase an extended cut, but it doesn't make sense to purchase both. So until
then, I don't feel too bad about renting it once and then watching a pirated
copy.

It seems to me that the people who are likely to know about the upcoming
extended cut are both (1) fans of the film and (2) likely to know how to get a
movie via torrents. I'm betting that in the case of _Kick-Ass_ , there is a
large source of revenue that is currently untapped pending the release of the
extended cut. This could certainly be a contributing factor in the abnormally
ratio of downloaded copies vs. revenue.

* at least within a more technical demographic. See [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kick-Ass_%28f...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kick-Ass_%28film%29#Home_media)

 _In an interview Matthew Vaughn said, "There is about 18 minutes of [deleted]
footage, which is really good stuff. If the film is a hit, I'll do an extended
cut."_

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trotsky
We can all agree that pretty much every movie is pirated to some degree,
correct? So then it's just a discussion of how popular it was to pirate the
content. Most popular for the year at the box office has a strong chance of
being the most popular for the year on bittorrent. What made it the biggest
earner? Popular + 3d novelty + increased 3d ticket prices.

It seems obvious that piracy must reduce income to at least some degree. If TF
was trying to make any kind of serious argument they'd have to be able to
point at a similarly popular movie that wasn't pirated at all and show it
didn't do significantly better. Since everything gets (heavily) pirated, we
have nothing to compare it to.

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Bud
You might find it obvious that piracy must reduce income, but I don't think
that's obvious at all. I don't pretend to know one way or the other. I think
it's approximately just as likely that, at least in some cases, piracy can and
has INCREASED income, by increasing hype and interest in a given movie or
recording, which drives more awareness of it, which then eventually leads to
some sales. Anecdotally, speaking only for myself, I'll admit to having
pirated some media, gotten very interested, and then purchased that same
media, either to reward the creators, or because I wanted a legit copy or a
higher-quality copy, etc. I've also pirated some media, gotten interested, and
then recommended it to many others, some of whom have then purchased it.

Why do you think it's obvious that piracy will always reduce income?

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gmjosack
I can't say whether pirating media will lose or gain money for the
studios/producers/etc. but I know one thing for sure. You are not entitled to
that media and if you don't like the methods in which these studios provide it
then your only legal option is to not consume it. I'm over peoples use of the
same tired excuses to justify piracy.

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seabee
You can say that about any law that people disagree with and/or break. But
being tired of the argument is irrelevant to whether it has validity. If you
don't want to participate in it, then perhaps you shouldn't participate in it.

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gmjosack
I've edited my post to more clearly reflect my opinion on the matter. I agree
that people have the rights to disagree with and attempt to change laws.
Though I haven't seen any arguments that are more than people feeling entitled
to things. If someone uses their time and effort to create something it is up
to them to distribute it as they see fit. I see piracy as nothing more than
denying the owner of content the distribution method of their choice. Of
course they may pick a method that isn't the most profitable, but that is
their choice to make.

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hxa7241
> I haven't seen any arguments that are more than people feeling entitled to
> things.

* Economically: [http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfi...](http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm)

* Morally: [http://www.hxa.name/articles/content/ethical-case-against-ip...](http://www.hxa.name/articles/content/ethical-case-against-ip_koepsell_2009.html)

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AlexMuir
Interesting to look at the potential revenue lost through these downloads:

 _Kick Ass_ \- Heavily pirated, not a huge commercial success If everyone who
DLed it paid $8 it would have doubled its revenue (and pretty much all of this
would have been profit). That's obv impossible to achieve but $2.99 a DL would
make a big difference.

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KC8ZKF
It is available as a $3.99 rental download from iTunes and Amazon VOD.

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thezilch
I'd be interested to see the gross effects on Media (DVD and Blu-ray) gross,
in addition to the Box Office gross, in this comparison. Anyone know where one
could find those numbers?

I would think that BitTorrent downloads would have more of an impact on Media
purchases than Box Office purchases.

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sukuriant
While the most profitable movie was the most pirated, if you'll notice, the
second most pirated movie was far from the second most grossing movie. I would
like to have seen a more consistent correlation for pirating vs grossing, but
second place breaks the trend.

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getonit
Exceptions don't break trends, they break rules. Claiming a trend is not the
same as claiming a rule.

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Bud
To me, this gives the lie to MPAA. I like things like that. ;)

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vitolds
they would just multiply the number of downloads by the average ticket price
and ask for the compensation for the lost revenues caused by piracy.

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daten
What if those downloads were by people who already paid to see the movie in
theaters and downloaded it later to watch it again?

If they waited for the DVD or Blueray to be released they could watch it an
unlimited number of times after paying once. Should each time they watch it at
home on a legally purchased DVD be considered a lost theater sale?

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EGreg
How come people can pirate Chuck Norris movies, given what they say about him?
It seems impossible.

Chuck Norris doesn't type, he thinks. And the internet comes together.

You know the stuxnet worm? That was chuck norris randomly mashing some keys.

