

Ask HN: What's the value of consulting experience? - sabj

Hey all,<p>I'm a current college senior dealing with an existential 'post college' dilemma. One form of this question is, "Does working at a good consulting firm teach you skills valuable for running your own startup?" or - does it teach you something worth more than what you would learn by trying and failing at something else?<p>In my estimation, the best way to learn is to actually do something, but the chance to get exposure across different companies and industries does have a certain appeal to it. This being said, I am obsessed with the opportunity cost of such an action, especially in terms of my ability to task on more risk now (debt notwithstanding).<p>I'm passionate about tech and have worked in different capacities  within the industry to date from a business side. I do some web-based work for myself and continue to try to improve my coding abilities, but it's not my forte at the moment. Thus, I'm contemplating taking a consulting gig, killing my life with work, and trying to learn a lot in a year or so before poaching my CS friends from Google, Facebook, wherever they are and trying to get them to jump in the deep end with me.<p>Thoughts? I'm hesitant about taking such a 'path of least resistance,' but know that it's not quite as if I am selling away my soul forever. Curious for perspectives from the community here.
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patio11
My last two employers did consulting as their business model. I am a much,
much better engineer for having a few years of professional experience, and my
users are _much_ better off for it. It is why my website doesn't crash on a
daily basis. It was an opportunity to learn workflows, practical system
architecture, build processes, source control, disciplined use of
processes/tools, etc, all that stuff that the CS curriculum doesn't cover but
will totally wreck you if you ignore.

I also got web development experience, which I was severely lacking at
graduation.

Something which I didn't learn while working at the consulting firm but picked
up when I actually started consulting: selling stuff, negotiation, moving
orders through the pipeline, and the ability to look a CEO in the eye and not
be reduced to a quivering blob of Jello. These all help.

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jedwhite
Consulting is like a honey trap or golden handcuffs. The better you are at
what you do, the harder it is to get out. Plus the more you earn the more you
spend, and the more trapped you become.

All you'll learn at a big consulting firm (or any large corporate) is how to
enjoy a high income and learn to accept getting bogged down by corporate
bureaucracy. You'll pick up more useful skills faster elsewhere without
learning the bad habits.

Get out there and make something people want instead.

~~~
dustineichler
well said.

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variety
The main benefit you get from being a consultant for a while is that you get
to learn just how much BS lies at the heart of most "consulting", as well as
the companies that like to hire (tons and tons of) consultants.

That is, mostly consultants are hired for (as other have said here)
psychological / CYA reasons, rather than for the actual business value of the
advice they provide (which is often mediocre). And of course when it comes to
technology products, the actual (source code) contributions of consultants,
dollar for dollar, is often especially low, indeed.

Another nifty thing you'll learn when doing consulting, which is hard to learn
otherwise, is that the higher rate you charge, the more people value you and
you work, for some reason. Which is a very useful thing to have a visceral,
bone-marrow-level grasp for, indeed.

~~~
sabj
To be clear, these would be management consulting gigs, albeit in some cases
focusing on technology business problems. Some combination of strategy and
process/operations.

They also all charge quite high rates, I would imagine, so hopefully my work
would be valued - if not valuable.

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olalonde
You seem to have figured out the pros/cons very well already.

I'm going to be practical and suggest you take the job and save some money
(assuming you don't have tons of it already). You will need to survive a few
months without income if you're going to work on a startup.

PS: Make sure you don't get too comfortable with your new job! Try to keep an
inexpensive lifestyle or otherwise, you might never again get the courage to
jump in startup land.

~~~
sabj
This is a big problem, yes. The momentum that you build up. I say it's like
getting on a train. You can always get off later, it just gets harder and
harder, and you are less and less able to leave for riskier or less
immediately lucrative things.

For instance, I am probably trading away the chance to go spend a year doing
more intensive language study in China if I take such an offer.

One reason to try to do _something_ is that, as of right now, I really don't
have much runway to actually start something. I guess I could try to put
together some brilliant MVP in time for S'11 YC, but... :)

~~~
olalonde
Funny, I just came back from a 4 months stay in China. It was the best
experience I had in many years.

~~~
sabj
I was there last year for a semester and had a really great time. The window
of opportunity for 外国人 to come and really be entrepreneurial is less open than
it was in the past, I think, but there are certainly still opportunities. This
is one frame of opportunity where I think some previous experience could
really be helpful; working in a garage with friends on an internet something-
or-other, less so.

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CyberFonic
Large consulting firms deliver low value at high prices. The clients hire them
to cover their ass. The partners in the firm rake in huge incomes. You will
only learn how to work that system. Not bad if high income, high status are
your priorities.

If you want to make the world a better place in some way, then just jump in
the deep end now! You will learn more by doing. Keep reading HN, there's a ton
of great stuff to learn.

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hajrice
I dont do consulting as often now, but when I do need some money, I do UI
consulting. It's a little annoying IMO, especially with all the restrictions
and working with someone who has no taste in design whatsoever yet they still
keep on pushing their ideas forward....But, here are the somewhat positive
sides I've managed to branch out from it:

* The ability to keep on working even though you want to kill someone how annoying their project seems to be.

* The ability to keep on iterating small changes which unfortunately are just warm ups to even more iterations.

* It's very annoying, even though you are probably making a good chunk of money. Great thing about it, once you move onto your project/startup(which I really suggest you do as soon as you have a proven idea and market) you'll pretty much love it and become very good at building something good.

* Oh, not to mention that you'll have a better outlook on things after you've worked on a few projects for clients.

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damoncali
Depends on what you mean by consulting. Accenture, deloite and friends have
little to do with startups. Culturally, they may be a step backwards. You will
learn a thing or two about enterprise sales at a place like that, however.

If you mean freelancing or small company consulting, then yes, you'll learn a
lot of practical skills that will be directly applicable to a startup.

In a broader sense, working _anywhere_ will help you with a future startup -
some jobs will just be more useful than others. High end consulting, banking,
and the like are way down on the utility list.

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kingsidharth
If you really want to do a startup and want hands-on experience, clarity and
opportunity then go work with a startup. Can't find a job? Do it for free!
Post an 'Offer HN'.

Noting goes better than working at a startup.

Caution: Working at a startup is addictive and can hamper your employability
or comfort level at a corporate.

~~~
sabj
Problem here is that there doesn't seem to be a really good role for me
anywhere. Or, better put: Startups the size I want to work at are either not
on my radar, or don't seem to want my kind of services (since I don't have
_so_ much obviously on tap, though I think I offer a lot!), while those that
are bigger offer more narrowly functional (non-technical) roles.

On the other extreme, I did interview for a PM position with Microsoft, but
because of location issues wasn't really able to follow through there further.
I'd love a way to work while building out these talents more.

~~~
kingsidharth
Dude, beggars can't be choosers. What do you mean size of startups you wanna
work with? Are you referring to money invested in them?

Startup is a startup - regardless of size.

Do an OFFER HN with list of all that you can do. I am sure you will get enough
insight of what kinda people need you.

~~~
sabj
I mean by number of people, that kind of thing. Maybe money is a proxy for
that, but not necessarily. The key consideration is: where can I learn the
most, the fastest? I am happy to work 90+ hr weeks if I feel I'm working
towards something meaningful, or learning a lot. And I think I would be
learning more at a start-up than at an established company of any kind,
whether consulting or otherwise.

Good thoughts on making an Offer HN - I'll try that out and see how things
shake out. My strategy the last few months was to try to pitch myself to
different startups that I liked, mixed results. I should have networked more
the last two summers in SF bay!

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sabj
Also, article like this remind one that it's a great time to get involved in
the startup space... or maybe a bad time!
[http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2010/11/17/the-daily-
sta...](http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2010/11/17/the-daily-start-up-a-
bubble-by-any-other-name/)

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variety
BTW also: you're young, and most likely have neither a family, nor a terribly
serious relationship that can't buck the strain -- so go ahead, kill yourself
with work for a year or two.

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zuckerborg
What type of consulting firms are you talking about?

~~~
sabj
There is a fair gamut, from the very small ( < 100 people) focused on tech, to
the very large (~5000) and well-known, and some places in between that
emphasize fast development and advancement.

