
Tell HN: Please continue offering your services (goods, rooms etc) - jacquesm
I've read and taken in swombats post to 'stop offering your services', and I think that he may have a point in the general sense, that some may abuse this format to gain a business advantage.<p>That said, I think it is much too early to make the call to stop doing this, let's fix problems if and when they appear.<p>The way to deal with that is to take any Offer HN at face value unless there is proof that it is not what it seems to be, and to indcate that if and when it appears.<p>From what I've seen so far all - or at the very least most - of the offers that have been made are both genuine and heartfelt, and at some personal expense in terms of time, effort or even goods to the person offering.<p>So please do keep them coming those 'Offer HN' postings and let's hope they will put HN on the map as a place where people do more than just talk.
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swombat
For what it's worth, I've upvoted this too. I certainly didn't mean to kill
the trend completely (which is what seems to have happened :-/). There is some
obvious value to it.

I wouldn't want to see the Offer HN thing become a lasting trend at the
current levels... that said, the odd "Offer HN" doesn't bother me, and I
certainly wouldn't want to think that all offers stopped completely just
because my post got upvoted.

That said, to elaborate on the point jacquesm singled out, many/most services-
businesses (from tax consultancies to seo consultants and web developers) use
free consultations as a way to generate leads. My suggestion to people who
want to offer something to HN is, don't do it just to generate leads, and try
to make it clear to the readers that it's not something you're doing to
generate business for yourself. It'd be a shame to see some percentage of this
site become basically a lead-generation site for the brazen few willing to
take advantage of it like that.

PS: I'm not suggesting that any specific "offer HN" post was like that,
despite mentioning examples above.

~~~
camz
I created the HN Offer: Tax Help for Startup Entrepreneur thread and I wanted
to reflect on how I went about it.

Maybe it would've been better if I didn't show my website. I wanted to show
that I've been doing this for a while as a career and hoped that it would help
lend credibility. I hope that it didn't come off as a gimmick.

I'm keeping my offer open and standing. I was thinking about posting an offer
hn tax help for startup entreprenuiers thread once a month just to show that I
would consistently help people and that I wasn't looking to be a scammer.

But maybe that was a bad idea. Let me know and I'll act accordingly. I was
just hoping to interact with the hn crowd and maybe meet some cool people and
discuss interesting tax subjects hopefully. I can say that I definitely got a
lot out of it myself. I learned about a new tax strategy i didn't know about
from RDL in ROBS 401ks. I'll be looking into that myself and sharing what I
find with everyone else since it could be an awesome way for people invest in
their own companies.

Let me know your thoughts and ill definitely take them into advisement.

~~~
thetrumanshow
Well, I can tell you that your advice definitely helped me get over my small
irrational fear of taking/holding money as an ad network. Everyone else I
asked those questions just shrugged and said "You should ask an accountant".

I know it will seem odd to many of these grizzled veterans around here, but,
just a few sentences from you, and I feel like I've overcome something
significant. Thank you.

~~~
camz
Thanks truman. I have that your business takes off

I really appreciate the turnout and how receptive the whole community has been
to me. I know that I'm like the odd man out in the group haha. But, its
awesome cause I've had a lot of people have reached out to me by email, phone
and skype.

Like I said, I'll keep this offer standing and post an offer once a month to
field all the questions people have. But, you dont have to wait. You can reach
me at contact@thekenggroup.com. They'll all get forwarded to me directly so
they're not going into some black hole =)

------
intended
2c - Please Bear with me, I am not the best at conveying ideas.

The Offer HN trend is of great value, its inspiring, collaborative, and
genuine. I think it deserves to be encouraged because, well... its more like
the world I think most of us would want to live in.

I was thinking about how this trend would play out though, and being a cynic,
I am certain that at some point this will be abused. All systems can be bent,
broken, or subverted and for a human system like the HN community, the
inevitable abuse will damage the trust being built up on the site. I hate to
be negative, but I have to point out that there are people who do NOT
subscribe to the DNA of HN and assume that some other human beings are just
marks. Offer HN is an ideal target for such individuals.

At the same time, for a successful community, Good faith needs to be assumed.
The alternative is, well, suspicion of most offers, which I think would be
corrosive to HN.

From here, it suggests to me that a separate system to ensure transparency and
good faith would be required to support Offer HN requests. A simple way to
identify affiliations, skill level and so on would perhaps be useful, and
would also help address any further concerns that people may have. At the same
time it could take away from the spontaneous nature of the help which would be
a shame.

\- Ok, complex rambling thoughts over! Hopefully someone finds something in
this useful, it would be a shame to see Offer HN dissipate. -2c.

------
tobtoh
I think there is a big difference in an 'Ask HN' post and a 'Offer HN' post.

In general terms, an 'Ask HN' post is the HN crowd helping an individual.
Everyone can participate to help that individual. An 'Offer HN' post is one
person helping one other person (or maybe a small handful). I enjoy seeing the
occasional Ask HN post because I can participate/contribute in some way to
most of the requests. For Offer HN posts, I can't participate unless I have
that specific need that needs addressing.

To me, there is less 'value/participation' to the HN community from the Offer
HN posts to the Ask HN ones for that reason. Offer HN type posts are better
serviced by other specialists sites of which there are no shortage. Yes - I
understand 'value' is subjective, but this I think my point is reasonably
objective from a 'whole community' point of view.

------
curt
I'm going to add a design and manufacturing guide for consumer electronics.
Stupid question but to add a thread do you use the submit or is there another
way? I know stupid question but my connection is acting up and I want to make
sure it's just me. I keep getting <http://news.ycombinator.com/r>.

~~~
jayphelps
I experienced that too a couple days ago. Strange. Came back after a couple
hours and then it worked.

------
petercooper
I like the "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" maxim in the
FAQ, but perhaps it needs to be rewritten or clarified. Maybe "anything that
gratifies one's intellectual curiosity or gives one a nice warm feeling on the
inside (and still gets upvotes)."

------
Silhouette
> That said, I think it is much too early to make the call to stop doing this,
> let's fix problems if and when they appear.

When I logged in for the first time and saw a home page full of these, I
assumed HN had been gamed and went away without a second thought.

A few hours later, I tried again, and while by far the most upvoted topics are
this one and the corresponding "please stop" thread, I can at least see some
potentially interesting topics as well this time.

So I think a problem did appear, very obviously and immediately, and getting
rid of anything to do with Offer HN is a very good thing. Much as I appreciate
the sentiment, this just isn't a sensible forum for that kind of interaction,
as even a few posts cluttering up the home page rapidly made obvious.

------
jedwhite
What about an "offers" link in the top nav to group these together, like
"jobs" and "ask"?

It strikes me also that this could be a valuable part of the community here. I
think the HN has an ethos of startups helping each other out (albeit with a
good dose of skepticism).

~~~
nicholaides
<http://news.ycombinator.com/offers>

~~~
jedwhite
Yep I was aware of the page being added. I'm just suggesting however that it
gets added to the top nav bar of the site to encourage people to continue
posting these items in an ongoing way (although hopefully at a more reasonable
frequency than today). Someone downvoted the suggestion which seems a little
harsh. :)

------
csomar
The real value isn't actually in the money, but in exchanging it. Money is
made to exchange wealth. Even though there isn't any money in these free
offers, there is wealth which is being made. At a large scale, I'm curious to
know how this will result.

~~~
jacquesm
I can see some potential for awesome things to come out of all this. Where
people meet and start exchanging ideas and simple services bonds are being
forged and where bonds are being forged the seeds are planted for a higher
level of collaboration in the future. So even if all of these are totally
altruistic I do not doubt that there indeed will be some real world pay-off,
if not for the individual than definitely in the aggregate.

I'll be watching this whole development with great interest, it is one of the
most exciting things I've seen on HN in a long time.

~~~
camz
On that note, I was contacted by a start up that is working in the field of
tax in the NYC area. So I'm definitely meeting people from the hn community
and hopefully I can help provide some insight or just make a new friend.

So I think that offers on hn is definitely having that effect of exchange
ideas and helping forge (or at least create the opportunity to forge) bonds.

~~~
csomar
Let say you helped 25 startups a year. After 4 years, that 100 startups.
Probably, 10 of those goes big and at least 3 or 4 will remember your work (it
should persist in their code base if it's quality work). So you got a job
offer or consulting work.

Dual benefit for short and longer term.

------
iamdave
I think these Offer HN posts are a great way to see junior startup groups
pitch their services to the community, and the passerby audience as they grow
closer to (a) launch or (b) YCombinator! application process.

It gives them a real, tangible idea of how well their application/product/idea
will do, and it's an excellent way to test the waters, get feedback and make
even the most minute refinements to their services that could mean acceptance
or rejection from prospective investors.

Good luck to you all!

~~~
rewind
I totally disagree with this. If someone is going to put up an "Offer HN"
post, it should be because they kick ass at something and want to share their
expertise. The last reason should be because people with limited experience
want to get their feet wet and use HN as guinea pigs.

------
sz
Why is this a separate post?

~~~
jacquesm
Because of a discussion in #startups.

I should have made that clear, thanks.

~~~
sabj
Where is #startups?

~~~
jacquesm
It's an IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

See: <http://jacquesmattheij.com/The+Unofficial+HN+FAQ#altuis>

------
duck
_let's hope they will put HN on the map as a place where people do more than
just talk_

Really? I think HN was already a lot more than that. People are always helping
each other on here in one way or another, from advise to reviews. I think the
"Offer HN" is great, but it really is just an extension of what was already
there.

------
paulnelligan
Offering HN something relevant (e.g. design, programming, business advice) is
really cool.

Offering something irrelevant (e.g. your apartment, your bike, your girlfriend
for a night) isn't so cool.

