

The Face of Facebook - ssclafani
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/09/20/100920fa_fact_vargas

======
loewenskind
You are the sum of the choices you make. You can't say "oh, well I'll just
screw over friends, coworkers, etc. to get rich but once I am I'll be nice."
All the habits you form getting to the top will stick with you once you're
there. And there is always more to want.

Of course one learns from past mistakes but the question is _what_ you learn.
From all his actions, it seems to me that what Mark learned was to not be so
obvious with his actions. Now he claims to want to make the world a more open
and honest place. Why would making all this information about yourself public
make the world a better place? We've spent thousands of years developing
social protocols for how and what we reveal to others about ourselves, our
families and our friends. Now we should just forgo all that because some guy
thinks that would somehow make the world a better place? Does he really even
believe that? Whether he does or does not, it sure would make things more
convenient for him if people would just voluntarily give out more information
about themselves so he can sell it.

~~~
philwelch
"Now he claims to want to make the world a more open and honest place. Why
would making all this information about yourself public make the world a
better place? We've spent thousands of years developing social protocols for
how and what we reveal to others about ourselves, our families and our
friends. Now we should just forgo all that because some guy thinks that would
somehow make the world a better place?"

That's not an argument against Zuckerberg, it's a fully general argument
against _any_ social change. You have discovered the Fully General Social
Conservative Argument. It wouldn't take much work to adapt your argument to
critique the birth control pill or desegregation (at least before they each
became a _fait accompli_ [1]).

(The rest of your post questions Zuckerberg's motives, which is not of
interest to me so I'm not addressing it.)

[1] (Edit) At this point, social conservatives have to argue that the change,
which has already happened, hurt society. Segregation is too taboo to argue
for anymore, but you'll still find some committed social conservatives still
resisting the Pill, the Catholic Church for instance. If the world really
becomes more open and transparent, we'll have at least a generation of pro-
privacy social conservatives saying the world is going to hell because your
uncle isn't keeping his leather fetish a closely guarded secret anymore.

~~~
yequalsx
I would distinguish between incremental change and radical change. Yes, it's
in the eye of the beholder. The loss of privacy is a radical change from the
past for those who live in cities. (Privacy is a different beast in a village
life.) The argument the OP presented is general but applies to radical changes
and I think it applies to Facebook and Zuckerberg.

Is this change in privacy a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. Is
Facebook (and Zuckerberg) the right agent to bring this change about -
definitely not in my mind.

~~~
philwelch
Was a eugenicist who favored compulsory sterilization the right agent to bring
about social acceptance of contraception? [1] It's a misguided question--
changes like this happen for reasons much bigger than one individual,
movement, or corporation, or any ulterior motives they may have.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics_and_eu...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics_and_euthanasia)

~~~
yequalsx
Apparently yes. At the time I would probably say no. It depends on the
argument being presented and not on who is presenting it. Though the messenger
often times becomes the focus of the debate. In the case of Zuckerburg I don't
trust his motives and - here's the rub - he's in a position to abuse trust.

Now if a dictator is in favor of eugenics and starts talking about increasing
contraception one might reasonably fear what comes next. When someone is not
in a position to takes things to the next level then their ulterior motives
are not relevant.

------
loup-vaillant
Man in the Middle _non_ attack:

    
    
      ZUCK: yea so if you ever need info about anyone at harvard
      ZUCK: just ask
      ZUCK: i have over 4000 emails, pictures, addresses, sns
      FRIEND: what!? how’d you manage that one?
      ZUCK: people just submitted it
      ZUCK: i don’t know why
      ZUCK: they “trust me”
      ZUCK: dumb fucks
    

Eben Moglen: _"Zuckerberg is the Man in the Middle of everything."_
<http://penta.debconf.org/dc10_schedule/events/641.en.html>

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faramarz
I read the whole thing and walked away even more impressed than before. I
think if this 'social network' was created by anyone else, they would have
settled for the billion dollar and essentially moved on to other things.

I admire his conviction. Don't worry Zuck, people will forget this movie just
as fast as they _forgot_ to delete their facebook account.

~~~
lelele
> Don't worry Zuck, people will forget this movie just as fast as they forgot
> to delete their facebook account.

Is this sentence ironic? Care to paraphrase it? Thanks.

~~~
lelele
So I've got 5 down-votes so far for not having grasped a sentence because I'm
not a native speaker, right? HN has become a very friendly place, hasn't it?

However, I've investigated further the issue and, as far as I understand, many
people forgot to delete their Facebook account, thus the sentence means: the
movie will not be forgotten. Am I correct? Thanks.

~~~
lazyant
Yes, HN can be pretty harsh. I've been here since the beginning and lately I'm
coming here less and less :-(

The previous comment was ironic (kind of. He's mentioning a movie (film) they
are releasing now based on Zuckerberg's college days and apparently it's
pretty negative towards him. "People forgot to delete their FB accounts" is
making fun of the people that criticize FB but don't still use it.

~~~
lelele
Thank you for your kind words and explanation. Are you preferring some other
sites over HN? Could you please tell us more?

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dschobel
“He stole the moment, he stole the idea, and he stole the execution” --Cameron
Winklevoss

Stealing the execution, that's rich.

~~~
natrius
If he was supposed to be doing work for hire for them, but instead implemented
the same idea for himself, I think that can be accurately described as
stealing the execution.

~~~
dschobel
The facebook v1.0 code is not what made it an empire, it was the decisions
they made there after. They weren't building a shed, but a company.

------
RyanMcGreal
One of the more alarming phenomena to come out of the internet is the idea
that we will continue to pay the price for our youthful transgressions, now
that they're all on permanent record.

It's more than a little ironic that the founder of the world's most prominent
social network is himself subject to the same attack vector.

~~~
yellowbkpk
Or maybe the "Facebook generation" that has grown up with the assumption that
this sort of information is public will learn how to deal with it just like
any other generation has learned to deal with any other new technology or
cultural change.

When the telephone and telegraph came around did we suddenly stop hiring
people because we could check their references without so much as lifting a
hand to dial the number or send a telegram?

~~~
Setsuna
> _When the telephone and telegraph came around did we suddenly stop hiring
> people because we could check their references without so much as lifting a
> hand to dial the number or send a telegram?_

I don't understand how this is as dangerous as online records.

------
sushi
Great work by the author in telling the side of Mark that we have rarely heard
or read before. His refusal to sell facebook for billion dollars to yahoo was
something I can't think many founders have done or can do.

Also it must have taken a hell lot of time to research for this article.

~~~
retube
Yeah his refusal was an interesting one. But was it his choice? Who owned how
much at that point? It's possible the VCs wouldn't let him.

~~~
byrneseyeview
Zuck dominates the board. He can pretty much do what he wants.

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endlessvoid94
How would people react if they knew the real story behind Steve Jobs and
Apple? Or Microsoft?

This is just the new age. Mark Zuckerberg has vision and he has balls. I
admire him for both of those qualities.

Nobody's perfect. His imperfections exist, and he doesn't care. He's giving
the world what they want and telling the naysayers "fuck you" because he can.

His life has been, and will continue to be, an interesting and inspiring
story, IMHO.

~~~
stuhacking
I'm personally hoping that ``The Social Network'' has the same style of
storytelling and drama as ``Pirates of Silicon Valley''.

------
phwd
His girlfriend's commitment is something I like alot. The amount of dedication
to follow him through with his ideas and travels is just amazing.

As much as Mark has gone through mountains and valleys, I am sure Priscilla
has had her hills and dips as well (no comparison intended).

------
tzury
single page version
[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/09/20/100920fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/09/20/100920fa_fact_vargas?printable=true)

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rblion
"This is a philosophical battle. Zuckerberg thinks the world would be a better
place and more honest, you’ll hear that word over and over again, if people
were more open and transparent. My feeling is, it’s not worth the cost for a
lot of individuals."

------
annajohnson
Funny, I read this and found myself intrigued and wanting to know more about
what makes Mark Zuckerberg tick. Having witnessed Facebook's rise, reading
Accidental Billionaires, hearing about the various lawsuits, seeing the
instant messages, waiting in anticipation for the Sorkin movie, and now
learning that Mark is a Classics nut... well, this guy is nothing if not
interesting. It's a shame the article didn't dig a little deeper. On that
note, does anyone recommend David Kirkpatrick's book The Facebook Effect for a
credible portrait of the story behind Facebook?

~~~
kmavm
_The Facebook Effect_ is about the product and company Facebook, as opposed to
Zuckerberg, per se. In tone, it more closely resembles business non-fiction,
or long-form journalism, than the celebrity biopic style of _The Accidental
Billionaires_ , on which the film is based. So it's less fun as beach reading,
but in my opinion more accurate, and probably of more use to somebody in the
business.

Kirkpatrick had unprecedented access to much of the early team, including
people who were no longer with Facebook. He does come off as slightly star-
struck at times, and not just at Mark Zuckerberg, so keep your salt-shaker
handy.

Disclaimer: I work at Facebook, and am proud to call Zuck a friend.

~~~
annajohnson
Thanks kmavm. I love a good business page-turner (think 'Den of Thieves' and
'Barbarians at the Gate' as classics in this category)... but also appreciate
books I can learn from so I can apply those lessons to my own business. Sounds
like I might get something out of The Facebook Effect.

------
philk
Being the target of a hatchet job masquerading as a Hollywood movie has done
what I thought impossible; made me feel sorry for Mark Zuckerberg.

------
jdp23
Excellent article. I was really struck by Zuckerberg's reaction to Jose's
hesitancy about publishing some of his personal information.

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bld
Spoiler alert: don't read this article if you haven't read Ender's Game (and
want to).

~~~
Revisor
What the article spoils is actually only a - not that important - surface of
the story.

