
Lego Helicopter Kit Cancelled 10 Days Before Release - rbanffy
https://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2020/07/lego-helicopter-kit-cancelled-10-days-before-release/
======
doe88
First, I think Lego are right to protect their brand and cancel this release
if they think this project will be attacked by some groups. Not worth it.

However, on the merit, I think it is a shame, it's a fine piece of equipment,
presented by Lego in a respectable use case, painted with rescue colors, not
militarized at all in this role.

~~~
rozab
To be clear, this aircraft is only used by the military. Making some bits
orange is a huge stretch.

I think the big issue is that this set would be directly funding arms
manufacturers (Boeing and Bell), and goes against the companies own stated
policy (despite the feeble attempt at circumvention). I am glad that fans are
holding the Lego Company accountable.

~~~
ethbro
And I suppose these were rescue pirates?

[https://brickset.com/sets/1481-1/Pirates-Desert-
Island](https://brickset.com/sets/1481-1/Pirates-Desert-Island)

[https://brickset.com/sets/1970-1/Pirates-Gun-
Cart](https://brickset.com/sets/1970-1/Pirates-Gun-Cart)

[https://brickset.com/sets/70413-1/The-Brick-
Bounty](https://brickset.com/sets/70413-1/The-Brick-Bounty)

~~~
codezero
Good point probably, except we can accept the difference between distant past
fantasy, and current state of technological warfare. In three hundred years, I
bet there will be little controversy over a historic flight series including
the Osprey.

I'm sure there are other cheeky examples of past things LEGO released without
responding to or hearing customer complaints. I could even argue the Apollo
program was fundamentally a military program, this isn't the point.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
The osprey is used by the Coast Guard. It's hardly weaponized by other
services. It's used much like other helicopters, for transport. I would get it
if this was an Apache with guns designed for one thing only, but it's not.

~~~
rozab
The Osprey is not and has never been used by (EDIT: 'operated by', for the
pedants out there) the coast guard, as far as I can tell. From LEGO's own
statement in the article:

>While the set clearly depicts how a rescue version of the plane might look,
the aircraft is only used by the military.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
Wrong, the Osprey has been used in numerous Coast Guard operations, notably in
joint efforts with the DEA. Just because you don't see every story publicly
doesn't mean it's not used. Their statement doesn't contradict this, while the
Coast Guard falls under the Treasury, it is still considered a component of
the military.

------
tantalor
Just rebrand it as a AW609 instead of V-22. Easy!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW609](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW609)

~~~
therockspush
Or make it a CV-22, the Air Force variant. These things have already been used
in search and rescue missions.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
The issue is apparently the BOEING name.. Because it would be funding the
military indirectly.

It's ok though because anyone that has flow commercially has indirectly funded
a military. It's nonsense.

~~~
hajile
Boeing doesn't give Uncle Sam a discount because a LEGO project pays them
money. If they do work for the military, they will bill it directly to Uncle
Sam.

I doubt the amount of money even matters to them. It's most likely linked to
retaining their trademark or something similar.

Finally, the V-22 isn't an attack craft. All experiments into the idea have
been outright rejected and the only weapon it carries is a single browning
machine gun which is _optional_ (and could easily be mounted to basically
anything). This is like protesting the creation of a truck model because
technicals exist.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
Thank you, glad to see i'm not alone in this.

------
kuroguro
But.. why? It's a great piece of engineering and it looks cool! I couldn't
have cared less if it was used by the military when I was a kid and I sure
don't care now.

I honestly don't understand what's the point of these campaigns - it's not
like much will change about armed conflicts just because you hide it from
retail shelves...

~~~
baddox
Maybe LEGO _do_ care about what children’s toys represent and the consequences
of that in the real world.

~~~
racl101
and they're now just realizing it 10 days before release? Now they realize
they have values and morals?

Lol. Please!

They just don't want to be on the wrong side politically. That's all. They'd
have released this thing if no one had complained, because like most
companies, all they really care about is making money.

Pure pandering at its most blatant.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
100%. It's just modern virtue signaling outrage.

No one pressed them to cancel these sets when released? How many kids bought
these and decided to go out and attack people with Bi-Planes?

[https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/sopwith-
camel-10226](https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/sopwith-camel-10226)
[https://brickset.com/sets/10024-1/Red-
Baron](https://brickset.com/sets/10024-1/Red-Baron)

~~~
baddox
Both of those sets seem to be no longer sold.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
Yes, they discontinue them after a year or two. The point made is this is a
2010 policy everyone is referencing about a vehicle that has no overt military
connection in design.

Where as the Sopwith for example, is a set released in 2012, that is
explicitly related to the military and specifically to WWI.

I'm just pointing out that the Osprey isn't a big deal. It's a VTOL that
happens to be used by the military. There are hundreds of sets that could be
seen as more violent that are made today, many you could argue break this
rule.

------
codezero
It says a lot that I'm turning 40 and it never occurred to me that I never
played "war" with my LEGO bricks... I owned GI Joe, so it's not as if I was
unaware of the possibility. It never occurred to me that the lack of weapons
as built-in components would have such a profound effect on how I played with
them. It's obvious in hindsight, I guess.

Obviously, if I were more creative I could have created things that were
weapons/war like, but wow, without being prompted, I guess I didn't.

I made a lot of airplanes, boats, and exploration type vehicles.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
Interesting, I was of the other side. I often had space battles with the space
sets (White vs Blue) as well as my pirates sets (often colored blue or red
based on their sails). Both sets came with weapons of sorts with pirates
having over guns, cannons, etc. But I also built giant dinosaurs, volcanos,
and everything else. I was a kid and I was playing.

As an adult I build giant battle scense from Star wars. Recently I build a
Pirate combat moc with the re-released Pirate bay set (one assembled as the
boat, the other as the cove).

None of these have made me more or less violent, just as I assume you playing
with GI Joe didn't you. Playing with things is a healthy way for the mind to
work through right and wrong, to conceptualize thoughts in your mind. I would
argue repression of these behaviors is far worse.

Lego has never made modern war items, I totally get that and am fine by it.
They do however make toys that allow you to play out violence. Jurasic Park,
Marvel, DC, Star Wars, hell even Minecraft, all have components of violence. I
don't believe in the slightest that any child playing with these toys is
predisposed to turn out violent. Just as I wouldn't expect a kid playing with
a VTOL craft too.

I would argue part of our problem over the past 15 years has been the result
of too much limitation of how we raise children and allow them to interact
with the world around them. It's why every thing is blown into a huge issue,
because to them it is, when the reality of it is that it just isn't.

I will say being of similar ages, our experiences may have been different than
the more younger HN crowd, but I'm glad you had legos and enjoyed them the way
you saw fit. I would imagine the creativity and ability to be rewarded for
solving challenges played a great impact on you.

Maybe i'm misplaced in thinking that proper parenting is a key to everything.
Besides, I would argue kids are exposed to way harsher or riskier things on
television / movies / the internet, than they ever would be by building the
Osprey.

~~~
hatsunearu
Violence has always been a part of "play"\--and we as a human race seem to
have survived thus far without breeding a massive army of cold, unforgiving,
killing machines who see murder as childplay.

~~~
rbanffy
> Violence has always been a part of "play"

I've had a lot of time to observe my 7-yo with her friends playing in our
shared lawn (I can see them from my home office) and I find it fascinating
that the most "violent" weapon-like toys they have are water guns and there is
no sign of good x bad roles in their games or even the notion that the main
goal is to shoot at each other.

My own childhood was much more violent, with cap guns and always present roles
of deadly antagonism.

We may be succeeding at producing better humans.

------
crtasm
Reminds me that I own this helicopter, it shoots missiles and rebuilds into a
spider (which also shoots missiles): [https://brickset.com/sets/4895-1/Motion-
Power](https://brickset.com/sets/4895-1/Motion-Power)

~~~
tantalor
Those are rescue missiles \s

~~~
ganoushoreilly
<3 Bombs are best bombs

------
TheSpiciestDev
Is this helicopter exclusively for war, though?.. are these not used for
rescue missions or other humanitarian things? If not then should anything that
is used for battle or violence be retracted?.. I had a lot of Legos with guns
(westerns), blasters (star wars) and other tools.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
It's not and it's a Transport vehicle. That's why this is nonsense. An apache
would make sense because it has one function, this is a utilitarian vehicle.
It's just stupid all around. The fact that a large company like lego bows to
this ridiculousness is stupid. I'm an AFOL and probably spend around 5k a year
on Lego. I've been a pretty consistent purist with exception of some Moc Cars
(mould king). All this does is push me away from the brand.

~~~
TheSpiciestDev
And I'm over here imagining a Max Max Lego set :)

~~~
ganoushoreilly
They sort of had some of them in the lego movie 2 sets :)

Lots of MOC sets out there, if you google image search mad max lego, there are
some really impressive sets.

------
coleifer
Anecdotally, my Aunt had banned all guns and violent toys from her house. One
morning, after serving breakfast, she noticed that my cousin had bitten his
toast into the shape of a gun and was making "pew-pew" motions. They laugh and
laugh about that. It is what it is.

~~~
wetmore
Toy guns of any form were banned in my house growing up and I just made them
out of Lego.

------
sesuximo
I’m sure this is what the world wants but....

I love the Osprey! One of my all time favorite aircraft. I probably wouldn’t
have bought this, so I guess they don’t care what I think, but I thought this
was super cool.

------
MrBuddyCasino
Another banger from the same folks that brought you evergreens such as
"unilateral disarmament will bring world peace".

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
I disagree with unilateral disarmament but I don't see there's anything bad
about world peace.

------
boublepop
... just put some laser cannons on it and give the pilot a lightsaber and it’s
perfectly within their regular branding.

------
phnofive
Can’t wait to see those few sets which escape the supply chain on auction.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
There's a bunch of them out there, I hope to snag one before they go too
crazy. If you're a small shop and you got your shipment, sit on them for a
couple years, thats new house money.

------
slap
The "cancel culture"'s new victim : LEGO helicopters. Well done everyone.

~~~
qayxc
Wait, please help me out here, if the product is clearly in violation of the
company's own policy, how is that "cancel culture"?

~~~
irrational
The fact that the product was already shipping to stores implies that the
company did not consider it a violation of their own policy.

~~~
qayxc
That doesn't compute: if they see it as a violation, they remove it, if they
don't they ship it anyway.

Sometimes things just slip through and mistakes are made - this is pretty
normal and product recalls happen all the time. What makes a policy violation
different from a defective product in this regard?

~~~
ganoushoreilly
It wouldn't have gone through the year + process of becoming a product without
this discussion and being over-ruled. Plenty of documentation out there on how
lego selects a theme / item, designs, plans production, and releases a
product. It passed theses rigors, but not the "mob".

~~~
qayxc
> Plenty of documentation out there on how lego selects a theme / item,
> designs, plans production, and releases a product. It passed theses rigors,
> but not the "mob".

Again, the same can be said about recalled products as well - years of
development and planning and even post-production QA, yet f-ups happen all the
time.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
So what's the argument for the mob putting pressure on them for the Firemen
and Police sets? How about the White House architecture set?

~~~
qayxc
That was not addressed by the article and thus is isn't relevant in this
context.

Also - Firemen and Police sets as well as the White House set are still on the
shelves, so what even is _your_ argument here? If the company deems themselves
in the right, they ignore "the mob" as you call it.

~~~
ganoushoreilly
I highly doubt that in this day of cancel culture "companies ignore the mob".

The context of the above is relevant, they too were products approved, that
were then backtracked because a small few expressed concerns about how they
saw the products.

It may not be in the article, but given it is two instances of this happening
in a short period, it's very much relevant.

------
gfodor
"Star Wars" \- it's literally in the name.

~~~
rbanffy
True, but it's framed as a war between good and evil. Nobody remembers every
storm trooper killed, every Tie pilot shot down is the parent, child, or
sibling of someone else that'll mourn them in their home planet and condemn
the terrorists who blew up the Death Star and countless other installations.

My grandpa fought in WWII as the commander of an anti-aircraft artillery
group. He never talked about it. After Alzheimer's took over and his memories
came back vividly and uncontrollably, I learner how much he was haunted by the
people he killed while protecting his land.

~~~
gfodor
My point wasn’t that they should support war based toys, it’s that if your
argument is that LEGO should not produce toys that glorify violence and death,
then Star Wars clearly qualifies.

~~~
rbanffy
I don't think that's the argument Lego is making. Their attitude seems to be
that this toy glorifies _actual_ war and death many kids experienced first
hand instead of a fairy tale of a clearly defined good versus a clearly
defined evil.

~~~
gfodor
It's quite a deep rabbit hole, frankly, since LEGO is metaphorical by nature:
it's a blocky model of something. In this case, the chain of metaphor is
shorter than that of Star Wars, but I'm sure there are many with PTSD who
cannot handle certain scenes in Star Wars given the analogs it may have to
their past experiences in actual war.

In other words, one needs a more objective standard I think if such a policy
is going to be seen as a moral value. It is not hard to imagine someone whose
parents were killed in gun violence from having a visceral reaction, no
different than the ones you mention, from watching a gunfighting scene in Star
Wars, or seeing blaster battles played out on commercials for LEGO products.

------
the-dude
It seems Boeing can't do anything anymore ( not a native speaker, sure there
is a canonical way of saying this ).

~~~
ethbro
That's pretty canon. I might put a comma after anything, but that's more
personal preference / feel than grammar.

------
aplc0r
I was looking forward to this kit, but I applaud Lego for standing by their
values.

I also appreciate that they haven't taken action against companies like
Brickmania[1] which cater to those looking for kits like this.

[1] [https://www.brickmania.com](https://www.brickmania.com)

------
christiansakai
Next, RPG games are banned because they use swords. Next, Action movies are
banned because they use guns. Next, Fantasy books are banned because they
contain catapults.

~~~
me_me_me
"In August 2020, LEGO will release the LEGO Technic set “42113 Bell-Boeing
V-22 Osprey”. This is a model of a military vehicle that is deployed in
ongoing armed conflicts. For this set, your company cooperates with Boeing and
Bell. In 2018, Boeing sold military equipment worth of US-Dollar 29.15
billion; it is the second largest arms manufacturer in the world. Bell is
number 27th of the world.

    
    
        Due to the deployment of this military aircraft all around the world, innumerable civilians were killed. That is why parents, LEGO customers and brick fans disapprove of the vehicle’s replication.
    
        Companies that produce weapons, which in many countries of the world cause human suffering and death, should not be cooperating with LEGO. Because of this, you stopped LEGO’s cooperation with the controversial oil company Shell in 2014. With the new set, you violate your own company’s basic principles.
    
        We urge you to stop the cooperation with Boeing und Bell and not to produce any further modern military vehicles."
    

This sound very reasonable to me.

~~~
waiseristy
So this is a problem with the branding? They didn't have a presser for their
F-35 clone [https://brickset.com/sets/31039-1/Blue-Power-
Jet](https://brickset.com/sets/31039-1/Blue-Power-Jet)

~~~
me_me_me
The problem is that LEGO doesn't want any association with anything that would
endorse ongoing war/killing etc.

They produce kids toys and don't want to glorify current violence.

There is no LEGO Osama Mountain Hidout + Spec Ops blackhawk attack team.

Only pirates, knights, police and robbers.

Of course they could rebrand it, and they will in few years. For now its
probably not worth the risk of backlash.

