
The U.S. Is on the Verge of a Major Nursing Shortage - prostoalex
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/02/nursing-shortage/459741/?utm_source=QuartzFB&amp;single_page=true
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danjayh
Also the medical industry is phasing out the use of 2 year (Associate's RN)
and LPNs, which makes the problem worse. They do not like to hire new grad
nurses, which makes the problem worse. They haven't given significant raises,
which makes the problem worse. 100% of the behavior of nursing employers leads
me to believe that there is not actually a shortage, and that everybody just
likes to claim that one exists.

My wife is currently in nursing school and is planning on working an unpaid
internship for the better part of a year because otherwise when you graduate
... you can't get a job.

This article stinks.

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mrcactu5
I was going to ask... are there enough people in Nursing school? Other
professions complain of a shortage of talent, and yet schools are full of
capable students who can't get hired.

This is true... for example in software development or Law.

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DIVx0
My wife is a Nurse Practitioner. When she started down that path she had to
get into nursing school to earn an RN. Just getting into a school, any school
was extremely difficult. The programs are very competitive with limited space.
She made it work because she is brilliant and tenacious but that period was
really rough.

If 'they' were really worried about the nursing shortage they would introduce
more tiers of qualified nursing to cover the gap. Like it was said earlier,
places are not hiring LPNs anymore and are putting the squeeze on RNs. The
shortage is not because there are a shortage of people who want to be nurses
but it is because it is so difficult to get to a level where you are
desirable.

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madaxe_again
Just keep immigration and education low, and this'll be sure to fix itself,
because market forces!

No amount of freedom and patriotism will create nurses if you're neither
training nor importing them.

Over here in the UK we have a perennial nursing shortage - so we'll be kicking
a load out of the country come April, because the scurrilous auslanders are
stealing British jobs! That no British person will fill! But hey! Patriotism!
It's the principle of the thing, right?!

But, worry not - when you and I are elderly and in need of nursing care -
there will be no way of meeting capacity, unless half the population is in
elder care, or old folks are looked after by Robots, or just euthanised as
they're no longer productive to the state that owns them.

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dazc
> That no British person will fill!

Do you have some evidence to back up this statement?

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madaxe_again
The stats are out there - and in short the pay is considered too low by most
who would want to nurse to actually pursue a career - starts at 21k, tops out
at 35k - and bursuries and grants for educational and training costs are
unavailable for most - the means test requires you and your family to earn
less than a living income to actually get funding.

Apocryphally, my other half wanted to be a nurse, but couldn't get any
assistance to fund her studies. She went to work as a carer instead, which
requires less in the way of qualifications, but if you're earning minimum wage
and having to spend most of your income on fuel to reach your patients, it
doesn't make sense to pursue.

No - nursing roles tend to be most readily fulfilled by those who have trained
overseas, have a favourable purchasing parity power in their country of origin
compared to the UK, and have a modest cost of living, what with that being
prepared to work your nuts off to achieve your aspirations thing that has
largely been washed out of the West. A growing number of folks seem to be
waiting for lightning to strike, as everybody eventually wins the lottery or
becomes a pop star.

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DanBC
> She went to work as a carer instead

A minor point but if she's paid she's not a carer, she's a care worker or care
assistant or personal assistant or personal care worker or etc.

Carer is a term reserved in English law for someone who provides care but who
s not paid to do so. (Usually a spouse, or parent, or child.)

This sounds like a minor quibble, but we know it takes a long time (average 2
years for adult carers, average 5 years for under 18 carers) to identify
people who are carers. We also know that often people don't self-identify as
carers because "I don't get paid to do this".

(But I agree with the rest of your post).

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endymi0n
If you want a preview of a market failure, look at midwifes in Germany. Low
pay and skyrocketing insurances drove most out of them out of business and no
one adjusted the rates. Lots of them aren't working anymore in the job they
learned and loved. It's next to impossible now to get one - and you don't even
know or appreciate that job until you're getting kids yourself: A target
demographic that's just too small by now to make enough noise to bring them
back.

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icebraining
From Spiegel: _The midwives are demanding 30 percent greater pay for the
services they provide that are covered by insurance providers with the
national healthcare system. However, the pay rise faces an uphill battle since
it would require that an exception be made in German legislation limiting the
payments made by insurers for certain types of care._

How is this a market failure?

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pbreit
You hear about stuff like this and it never comes to fruition, does it?

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noonespecial
"The US is on the verge of having to pay nurses a little more" is the
fruition.

~~~
kazagistar
It sounded like nursing schools are just turning away nurses. "Less qualified
nurses will be hired" seems like the real outcome.

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randycupertino
Exactly. There are TONS of new grad nurses out there who can't get jobs. Some
of them go to medical call centers or outpatient clinics because they can't
get any actual clinical or hospital experience. I know about 25 people just
like this in the Bay Area.

What hospitals want but can't hire is some nurse with 3 years ER experience, 4
years ICU experience, who teaches ACLS and is willing to work for 65k.

It's just like the "engineering shortage" ... if they increase salaries, they
can get what they claim they need/can't get.

Otherwise, they just need to hire and train new grads, which they totally
don't want to do.

~~~
nickpsecurity
Same here. In my area, this is one of the top professions to go into. All of
them complain about how hard it is to get in and the obstacles along the way.
It's so difficult that the senior ones feel a lot of pride in their position.
Seem to earn it, too.

So, the solution is to reduce or remove those obstacles where possible so
people can get the jobs and experiences they need. I mean, 80-90% of most
nurse activities I see are more about effort than arcane knowledge or skills.
Could let new hires mostly do that while bringing them in for other stuff
several times a day to gradually build up their experience. Hand more stuff
like that off to them over time.

A bunch of institutions doing this with just a handful of people at a time
should make a huge difference in the availability of qualified talents
starting after a few years.

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f3llowtraveler
These kinds of problems don't happen in a free market.

~~~
lostlogin
Actually they do. There is a similar problem in New Zealand with radiology
staff. Employers are trying to get staff but without offering more money. They
can't find any staff. They are now pushing to change laws such that staff who
currently aren't qualified to operate the equipment will be allowed to. The
staff they want to operate the equipment have no training. Zero. The employers
who are keen on the changes have not tried offering to pay more. They are
ideologically opposed to those low down in the ranks being paid more.

