
Ask HN: Is it ok to quit without notice? - potta_coffee
Hey HN, I&#x27;m looking for an opinion. I&#x27;m in a terrible company...the environment has become incredibly toxic, almost my entire department has quit, the company is hiring a new CEO but the &quot;interim&quot; CEO has acted purely out of self-interest and in his maneuvering, has gutted half the company, ruined some relationships and destroyed the project I&#x27;ve been working on for a year. I have an offer for a much better job coming in, and I don&#x27;t feel like I can manage another day in this environment. How bad is it for me to just walk away? I&#x27;ve already documented all of my code and processes and handed most of my responsibilities to the overseas contractors that are apparently intended to replace me. Thoughts?
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bigiain
It's a bit bridge burning, but from your description it's not like there's
people you'd be leaving behind who wouldn't either understand and sympathise
with you (possibly even be jealous of you), or who you quite rightly don't
care about burning bridges with.

If it's "toxic", and you don't have other (financial or visa perhaps) reasons
to stay, I recommend you just walk out today. Shitty companies aren't worth
losing sleep over, never mind losing friends or enthusiasm or health over. Not
in this industry.

~~~
potta_coffee
There are no more bridges to burn - it's only me and one other developer. By
"toxic" I mean that the "interim" CEO, who was not selected to be the CEO, is
now ramping up rhetoric that puts the blame for his bad decisions soundly on
me. I know the score - whether I leave now or in two weeks, every bug, design
flaw, or bad business decision relating to the software will be my fault. I
don't want to play into that any longer. It feels like staying in the house
with an ex after the relationship has ended.

~~~
bigiain
Yep. Get out. Sooner rather than later. Like today - just pack up your stuff
and walk out. Interim CEO isn't going to talk any nicer about you if you spend
any more time there...

Go sit in a cafe, or the park, or in a bar, or by a river. Way better use of
your time than getting blamed for shit at work...

~~~
potta_coffee
The end of the story: I received an offer, accepted, and ducked out. My rival
was as happy to see me go as I was to leave.

~~~
bigiain
Congrats, and best wishes in your new gig!

~~~
potta_coffee
Thanks!

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lioeters
In my opinion, you have as much right to fire them as they do for you.
Sometimes an immediate termination is the right decision, especially if the
situation is an on-going cost on your mental well-being. You can just walk
away, if that's what you need to do.

As others have noted, there are financial, legal, perhaps moral and
reputational aspects to consider. If the estimate of total "loss" you may
incur is less than what it costs you to stay, well, you owe it to yourself to
fire them.

Speculatively, one gets to burn bridges like this only a handful of times in
their life/career, even if it's for a reasonable cause.

It would be ideal if you can do it "politely", as in, give the minimum
required notice (2 weeks?). That would remove/reduce any guilt you may feel
about the decision.

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JSeymourATL
> I have an offer for a much better job coming in...

WAIT until you have this offer buttoned-up and in writing. A change in your
employment status may trigger a red flag with the offering company.

Relative to your notice-- It's generally good form to give them 2-4 weeks
heads-up. That being said, you can also suggest "or at your earliest
convenience". Informally, say I can wrap things up here and be out by close of
business today.

~~~
matt_the_bass
Ditto. It this new gig doesn’t work out, then you will be unemployed.
Unemployment is a strong negative bias for future employers.

~~~
taurath
It’s not that strong in software, at least not in this market. But yes,
companies prefer to get people with jobs now.

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BrentOzar
If you're in the US, give two weeks' notice.

It's less about the company, and more about your reputation with those around
you. Other people are probably fleeing the sinking ship too, but you want them
to remember you as a person who at least tried to do the right thing. Walk out
with no notice, and that'll be something they remember - and not in a good way
- not something you want when they're about to hop into the hiring pool too.

~~~
undulation
While two weeks is the norm, there are circumstances under which it need not
be followed.

I've worked in a toxic work environment in the past. I don't think any less of
the people that I watched quit on short notice after continued mistreatment
from management; in fact I respected them for not putting up with any more
crap when the didn't need to. Assuming this environment is as toxic as
described by OP, it's important to remember that many of your coworkers around
you will empathize with your decision and respect you standing up to the
manager that they too resent.

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duxup
I don't think of notice as a requirement anymore as most companies don't do it
themselves, or will walk folks out the door regardless. Personally if it
works, I'll give notice (and of course I will if I feel they've been good to
me), but I don't think of it as a requirement.

As you said you documented everything, that seems very responsible.

If the company is how you say it seems like they might not like it, but you're
not required to operate your career to satisfy people you don't trust / don't
want to work with.

~~~
potta_coffee
Thanks. That's how I feel about it, but I don't like to make decisions while
I'm upset and/ or angry. Seeking opinions just in case there is a significant
downside that I'm overlooking.

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bradknowles
First off, let me be clear that I am not a lawyer, and nothing I say here can
be construed as legal advice.

That said, your location matters a lot. Many states in the US are “right to
work”, which actually means that legally you can be fired at any time and for
any reason, without notice. But it also means you can do the same to your
employer.

Other states are not, and there are actual legal requirements for terminating
an employment contract and severe penalties if you don’t follow the rules.

Regardless, I feel that you almost always want to give them at least two weeks
notice, and you want to try to avoid burning those bridges.

But I must concede that there are times when that is simply not possible.

If you’re seriously contemplating this situation, then I would urge you to
find a local employment law specialist and pay them to go over your situation
with you. A small amount of money invested in getting proper local legal
advice can save you a great deal of pain and suffering.

In other words, a months worth of coding can be very powerful — it might even
save you a full hours worth of planning!

~~~
potta_coffee
Thank you. I am in a right to work state and in fact I have never signed a
contract with my employer.

~~~
gtsteve
That's interesting, and a big mistake on their part. Perhaps look at your
local laws and see if the copyright of the work you performed for them belongs
to you and not them. This could be helpful leverage if you run into problems.

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gt565k
Get off the sinking ship. If you can afford to give notice, do 2 weeks. If you
think your sanity will be better off leaving immediately, then do it. There's
no right or wrong answer. Do what feels right without feeling like you owe
anything to anyone.

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jdauriemma
What you're describing is not morally wrong since you'd probably be shown the
door unceremoniously if the shoe were on the other foot (turnabout is fair
play, after all). It's a risky career move to leave without notice, though.

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rajacombinator
If it’ll help others who are still there, and you care about them enough to
help, then give some notice. Otherwise fuck em. Employers who treat employees
like shit deserve the same.

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Gustomaximus
Have been there. Ultimatly you have to decide who you are. Are you a person
that acts to their word (I assume your contract has a notice period). Or
decide you will act badly if others act badly around you.

In my situation I'd gave them my minimum notice and did the job with full
effort til the last day.

And at least in my case, it was a much easier enviroment once I had handed
notice in. You can see the end of the tunnel and toxic behaviour washes off
more easily.

Good luck.

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Rainymood
I'm in Europe and I have a 1 month's notice in my contract. I give my notice
and then I have to stick on for 1 month for handover etc.

edit: Actually I just checked, it just says termination is effective at the
end of the month. Nothing about a notice. Note this is a Fortune 500 company.

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saluki
y, your company wouldn't think twice about letting you go without notice so if
it's a sinking ship jump to your new gig right away.

Unless they have a history of escorting you out and paying you the final two
weeks. You could test those waters with a two week notice.

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d--b
It depends a lot on the country you live in...

