
Why Successful Games in China Rarely Obtain the Equivalent Success in the West - douche
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MantinLu/20160916/281528/Why_Successful_Games_in_China_Rarely_Obtain_the_Equivalent_Success_in_the_West.php
======
idra
Easy answer: because they suck.

Players in China are used to outright horrible software (QQ, Qihoo 360, and in
fact the majority of Chinese-produced software installed on a Windows computer
of a typical user), bland repetitive art, bugs, grinding and paying to win.

A strong nationalistic sentiment makes Chinese players favour games based on
their culture and history, which is mostly unknown outside of China because of
how closed the country has been for centuries and the "foreign barbarians
can't possibly understand our culture" attitude. In addition, the content is
usually limited to the Four Great Classical Novels because that's the only
thing a Chinese layman is familiar with. But also, due to censorship, it is
impossible to use more interesting settings without getting unwanted attention
from the government. A recent development in censorship is [1], which bans the
use of Traditional Chinese characters (as opposed to the simplified ones in
use after the Communist Party takeover and which are in use in all Chinese-
speaking countries outside the PRC) and English words.

Combined with a large potential player base and lack of foreign competition,
even the most atrocious abomination of a game can make some money in the
internal market.

[1] [https://www.techinasia.com/mobile-game-devs-pissed-chinas-
ce...](https://www.techinasia.com/mobile-game-devs-pissed-chinas-censorship-
rules)

~~~
phoebus
Not sure about other things you said, but is it true that QQ sucks?

QQ supports over hundreds millions online users every day, and numerous group
chat rooms at the same time. QQ is far more advanced than any IM softwares
outside of China.

~~~
kkarakk
why is this thread full of people saying "this thing in china is not bad, it
supports a lot of people" ofc their stuff has to scale, if it's successful
there are a guaranteed hundred of millions of people ready to crash their
service and render it un-useable. also please name things that this software
is more advanced than? the only reviews [1] i can find name it as a middling
piece of software

[1] [http://qq-international.software.informer.com/](http://qq-
international.software.informer.com/)

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xiaoma
This ignores the elephant in the room: international competition. Top western
games such as World of Warcraft have done extremely well in China without
having to rewrite the stories or change their artwork.

A huge issue is that the Chinese gaming companies are accustomed to very
little international competition for Chinese themed games and in the last five
years or so, limited competition at all. It's similar to how Youku thrived in
China (especially after YouTube got blocked) but can't compete
internationally. Winning in China and successfully entering a market where US
and Japanese game companies are unrestrained are two very different
challenges.

~~~
bsder
> This ignores the elephant in the room: international competition.

I would attribute most of the difference to this, but I would go further in
that there just aren't that many successful international games _period_.

Any game which requires language for cooperation is a non-starter. So, you
either have to be individually based or competition.

Most of the really successful ones are individual: Angry Birds, Candy Crush,
Clash of Clans, Puzzles and Dragons.

Some competition ones do exist: Hearthstone, Clash Royale, Words with Friends.
However, you have a bootstrapping issue for competition--how do you have
competitions until you have competitors and vice versa?

~~~
rangibaby
I would say Counter-Strike (especially GO with it's matchmaking) is a good
example of a successful international game. It was not uncommon to have
Chinese, Russians, Japanese, Koreans, etc. on the same server. A lot of people
have learned a few words from other languages like "thanks" or "fuck you".
There is some basic coordination of tactics too because the goals in the game
are "A" and "B", or asking a teammate to buy a weapon for you, a "drop".

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pjlegato
So why have Japanese games been so extremely successful in the west? They
suffer from all of the same supposed drawbacks, which were even more marked
during their period of peak success in the 1980s and 1990s -- think Super
Mario Brothers, Final Fantasy, Legend of Zelda, Street Fighter II.

These games, all huge successes in Japan and in the west, have all the issues
described -- radically different art styles, very different pacing, and
complex and unfamiliar user interfaces compared to what westerners were used
to. Even worse, during that period, Japanese games got little if any
localization for the US and European markets, beyond hastily done and poorly
proofread translations of the text.

So what's different about Japanese games?

~~~
idra
They're actually good games.

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yakult
>For example, some female characters in game from China show too much skin to
be appealing, which would be offensive to both female and male players in the
West.

Oh the many ironies. Things have truly come full circle.

~~~
DrStalker
Are the skimpy female outfits used in some Asian games really offensive to a
majority of Western players, or is that just what people say when asked
because it's become socially unacceptable to promote sexualisation of female
characters?

~~~
yongjik
I don't play games these days, but I can totally see how one can be put off by
female "warriors" wearing glorified G-strings. Not necessarily in "Oh how dare
they objectify women!" way, but more like "Do these idiots take me for a horny
teenager?" way.

~~~
allendoerfer
A quick view into one of the darker corners of the web confirms that "horny
teenager" is by far one of the less disturbing scenarios.

This is also why I do not like the culture around cuteness (e.g. from Japan).
These thoughts just give me chills.

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bottled_poe
This article makes some very broad statements without any examples to back
them up. Much like this comment.

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runeblaze
The first paragraph of the "Art Style" section seems like overstatement to me.
Chinese seem to accept western styles just fine (WoW for example), so I just
do not think art is really worth putting as the first section along with more
important design decisions like world background.

The image caption "Popular Art Style among Game Players in China" could be
much better phrased as "The Art Style of popular Chinese games" imo. The
original caption gives the impression that the art style led to popularity,
which is not true: it is probably because the settings of these game, of
ancient China, fill a niche that few foreign competitors are interested in.

~~~
douche
How much is the art style of something like WoW already adapted to a style
that is more compatible with the Asian markets? Warcraft has definitely gotten
considerably more cartoony and almost anime-inspired since it's original
incarnations.

It only makes sense that they might be influenced in that direction, given the
runaway success StarCraft, for instance, enjoyed, and still enjoys in Korea.

~~~
runeblaze
I do need to admit that I did not consider that these game could have adapted
more to the Asian markets. I guess I need to reorganize my thoughts and
perhaps do more research.

I do not know much and this is pure speculation, but I feel like WoW's art
change is a result of constant tweaking while in the Asian markets instead of
a deliberate trend. This intrigues me into asking if Chinese games'
traditional style (not the anime ones) will have any luck in western markets
at all or it will be force to be westernized to gain popularity in western
markets in the first place.

edit: grammar

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Noos
From what I understand, Chinese love the pay-to-win model of
microtransactions. They don't mind at all if you can spend your way to the
top, whereas western gamers tend to flee that type of game fast. I don't mean
the usual "you get some advantage if you subscribe" types, like restricting
inventory space, but pure power for money.

One thing I would add is that from the little of mass-market stuff that has
reached the west, is that Chinese writers are really bad at story. The
Detective Dee films are a great example. Nice aesthetic, fun action scenes,
but the story is barely Michael Bay Transformers level at best. They you get
into the horrid nationalism, like in Ip Man.

~~~
kkarakk
This is really true and chinese companies exploit it to the hilt, there is a
game i tried called "Revelation Online" that mixes player vs environment(PvE)
and player vs player(PvP). It instantly becomes very clear to you as a player
that play to win is the theme of the game as you get slaughtered quite easily
while trying to accomplish anything in the game. quite frustrating but the in
game community treated it as quite common and was blase about it

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Animats
The note that games in China have a more complex UI is interesting. Is this
for PCs, consoles, or mobiles? Since computing in China tends to be mobile-
first, I would have expected simplified touchscreen-type interfaces.

Here's a recent Chinese kung-fu movie, (mainland, not Hong Kong) fully
approved by the government and Party.[1] This has a game-like look to it. It's
a sense of the style expected. Even though this is set present-day, it looks
like a historical drama.

[1] [http://www.gooddrama.to/chinese-movie/the-bodyguard-
movie](http://www.gooddrama.to/chinese-movie/the-bodyguard-movie)

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johngalt
Koei has had no problem making games set in the three kingdoms period. Romance
of the three kingdoms is a great series. So is Dynasty warriors.

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kkarakk
Lot of pro-chinese propaganda in this post without data or even anecdotal
experiences to back it up. paid astro-turfing on hackernews?

