
Peer-to-peer sports betting inside the Bitcoin blockchain - stop_sending
https://xbet.io
======
kylebrown
> _Moreover, since the funds are held in escrow by the network and not by a
> specific person or group, your funds can 't be stolen or seized by anyone._

But who adjudicates the event outcomes? In other words, who is the
administrator that chooses the winning side of a bet when the event is over?

> _XBet.IO uses a one of a kind intervention mechanism to ensure that only
> verified results are broadcasted to settle bets. After every match, the
> results are displayed for the users to review and file an appeal if they
> think the result is wrong. If a bet is reported, it would be manually
> verified by an admin before settling the bet._

And who are the admins? An admin could steal all the funds placed on a winning
bet by simply placing a small bet on the losing outcome, then settling the bet
on that wrong outcome (and denying the appeal).

~~~
jpalomaki
Instead of the service administrator determining who wins or not it should be
a number of named and trusted outsiders who would make this decision.

Take 10 reputable sports journalists/well known figures. Pay them part of the
1% profit. In exchange for the money they would agree to provide a proof of
the result (signed with their key). Craft the transactions so that for example
4 out of 10 confirmations are needed for the transaction to go through.

~~~
kylebrown
The problem here is that "trusted" is not intrinsic to the character of some
third-party. I might trust someone with $100, but does that mean I would trust
them with $1,000,000?

The better solution is to not to rely on trust or semi-trust (i.e. trust
multiple parties not to collude) at all. Instead, incentivize people to act in
their own self-interest (the same game-theoretic assumption underlying the
blockchain). This is how TruthCoin incentivizes voters to adjudicate decisions
(voters are analogous to miners):
[https://github.com/psztorc/Truthcoin](https://github.com/psztorc/Truthcoin)

------
bainsfather
I use the betfair 'betting exchange' API +crude algos to place bets on the
final results of soccer leagues. My main risk, I think, is betfair going bust
with all my capital locked into season-long bets (I make many small bets on
unrelated markets).

They charge 5% commission on _net_ profits for a given event (would be reduced
to 3% if I had very large volume). They are floated on the stock market, have
a decent market cap and I think my funds are likely safe with them. That 5% is
a lot, and really reduces my profit, BUT at least I am fairly sure my capital
is safe. (Unlike e.g. intrade [0] who I really wanted to use (big arbs on US
presidential election vs betfair) but did not trust (rightly so, as it turned
out)).

The other positive thing is the market depth - many punters use betfair. This
is self-reinforcing - people don't use eg betdaq because people don't use
betdaq, even though their commission is currently 3%.

Another thing: I am happy having my capital tied up in bets because inflation
and interest rates are low. That is not true of bitcoin. For bets on a given
match, made and settled the same day, this might not be a big issue, but for
longer-term bets ...

I'm interested to see how xbet does, good luck to them.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrade)

~~~
hucker
Oh, I didn't know betfair had an API, that's interesting. Do you know if there
exists an open source implementation for any languages, or do you roll your
own?

~~~
bainsfather
Maybe [https://github.com/betfair/API-NG-sample-
code](https://github.com/betfair/API-NG-sample-code) is a good place to start?

Also: [https://developer.betfair.com/](https://developer.betfair.com/)
[http://forum.bdp.betfair.com/](http://forum.bdp.betfair.com/)

I was careful about using someone else's code for handling my money! So I used
basic example code that I understood (I no longer remember where I got it,
sorry), then extended it.

From various forums etc, there seems to be a big pool of people doing this
sort of thing. Also, from the betting market dynamics, you can see there are
other algo traders - watching the in-play betting on soccer matches is quite
amazing - the bettors work with such small margins and big volumes,
'predicting' the game in real-time. Most impressive.

~~~
hucker
Thank you very much. This looks like an interesting market to experiment with
:)

------
wwwwwwwwww
beware: this site's session cookie is scoped to "/", and can be hijacked by
any malicious page on their domain that you nav to.

also there's no httponly flag on the session cookie

gotta love bitcoin sites

~~~
kordless
> gotta love bitcoin sites

A good reason there is a lot of work being done to separate the two offerings
from each other. I'm supporting all sorts of features, but to pay, you gotta
send Bitcoin with a client - not my site. Safest that way. Also, see
Counterparty.

Edit: From the site in question: "Nowhere do we store or request any personal
information." [https://xbet.io/why_use_xbet](https://xbet.io/why_use_xbet)

Another thing: It's not a forgone conclusion that Bitcoin technologies will
get better over time, but there is a large amount of pressure to make that a
reality. People like their money, above all.

------
stop_sending
XBet.io uses Counterparty, a protocol build on top of Bitcoin, to match and
settle all bets: XBet never holds your funds (only you do).

~~~
kristianp
Is XBet.io's commission programmed into Counterparty somehow?

~~~
PhantomPhreak
Exactly. All bets are matched and all fees are handled by the Counterparty
protocol. The only thing that XBet.io does is broadcast the results of the
games (and provide a nice UI for making bets on those future broadcasts).

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wcummings
No BTC site is complete w/o the trollbox

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goeric
If you're in the U.S. don't get your hopes up, it won't let you bet.

~~~
CaveTech
You can bet anonymously, no?

~~~
trundlingtrain
Also, have you ever heard of Tor?

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globalpanic
offering poor odds on England beating Costa Rica right now. I can get better
elsewhere.

~~~
dagw
Somehow I get the feeling that this is primarily targeting people who, for
whatever reason, don't have easy access to those better odds.

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kolev
One of the best use cases of Bitcoin: illegal gambling... in addition to
online-enabling other vices.

~~~
laichzeit0
It might be illegal in your shitty country but not mine.

~~~
josephlord
But the point is that we don't need bitcoin to gamble. Only those in illiberal
countries countries need bitcoin to gamble online.

~~~
aianus
That's not true. Online gambling is legal in Canada but my bank has taken it
upon themselves to block deposits to Betfair.

