
Review: Tesla Model 3 lives up to hype - randomname2
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2018/02/26/tesla-model-three-test-drive-detroit/110880692/
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kbenson
Is anyone else not enthused about the single screen for all instrumentation? I
was talking to friends about it this weekend, and as someone that works in
technology I have quite a bit of distrust in the idea of one screen for all
your essential driving information, including fuel capacity, speed, warning
indicators, etc sharing space with the entertainment and navigation system
when operating something as fundamentally dangerous as an automobile (even if
we often forget how dangerous it is).

* I don't want to be at the whim of some designer's ideas as to whether when I switch navigation screens my fuel gauge and current speed should shrink or move to a separate area for better design flow. I want them at the same location no matter what.

* I don't want the added complexity of the entire entertainment and navigation system working against the stability of the system. I don't want poor quality of some random widget crashing my only information display.

* After the Jeep hacking a few years ago where there wasn't enough separation between the internet connected devices and features essential to operation of the vehicle, many commenters here were saying anything without an air-gap between the internet and CAN-bus is a security problem.[1] That may or may not be extreme, but putting everything together like this means I _really_ want to know what steps they've taken to segregate and secure high-importance data channels in the car. I _really_ hope the answer isn't "we have software that is responsible for firewalling access." When it comes to something like this, I really want some physical and/or hardware level separation.

1:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9921557](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9921557)

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Yep, I've commented on this before. It's a safety hazard and is bad UX.

Having seen and dealt with the Model S screen before, no thank you, not
interested.

~~~
greglindahl
It's worth noting that Model S can control a lot of things from the steering
wheel buttons. (You may already know this, but many commenters in the past
haven't.)

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dmart
Having to look down at a center-mounted console to see your current speed
seems dangerous.

Really, the whole "remove all tactile console controls and slap in an iPad"
thing seems lazy and tacky.

~~~
keymone
disagree. having buttons and knobs just because it's the norm and auto
manufacturers don't want to risk changing annoys the crap out of me.

remove every single tactile element. have convenient touch interface. have
usable voice control. that's the future. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd
like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes.

Edit: what is it with people not reading the message before commenting on it?
_that 's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and
see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the
pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an
exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it
stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing
there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like
the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes._

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
Knobs are safer, a flat screen by definition requires your eyes to be on it to
use since there is no tactile component. And if your eyes aren't on the
road...

~~~
dmode
You are thinking about this based on your experience with traditional cars.
When you drive today, think about all the moments of interactions that you
have with the car while driving. It is fairly limited. You would change volume
controls, turn on wipers, skip music, call someone etc. And almost all of
those controls are either available via the steering wheels knobs or readily
available on the giant screen (e.g., climate controls). The touch screen is
really there for secondary controls such as vehicle settings and user
preferences. Most people are thinking that you have to navigate some menu to
increase volume. But that's not the case.

~~~
icebraining
But even if they're right on the giant screen, you still have to look. A
dashboard knob can be used without ever taking the eyes from the road.

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t0mbstone
I'm sorry, but the big flatscreen in the middle of the dash is just moronic.

I don't want to have to take my eyes off of the road to see my speed.

Humans like controlling things via touch. Ironically, since touch screens are
smooth, there is zero tactile feedback. It's impossible to use it without
looking at it, and if the driver is looking at the screen, they aren't looking
at the road. This is especially true because of the touch screen's position
relative to the driver.

A head up display projection directly on the windshield, directly in front of
the driver (with control buttons on the steering wheel) should be the bare
minimum for any modern car.

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derekp7
I'd like to see some real-world reports on how useable having most of the
controls in the screen are. My first concern is being able to accurately
interact with it while the car is moving -- personally my arm would be
bouncing all over the place from car motion when the arm is extended that far.

As a point of reference, my Ford has their new Sync 3 system, and I often need
to steady my hand by resting the thumb just past the edge of the screen. Many
controls are available on my car as physical knobs, levers, and buttons, in
addition to the screen, but some things like setting dual-zone climate control
or manually moving the vent between floor and dash are screen only. And I
typically can only mess with that at a stop light.

Now the counter-arguments on the Tesla would include that their self-driving
capabilities decrease the risk of looking at the screen for a few seconds, and
the screen placement probably helps too. But I'd still like to see some long-
term reports as situations arise, such as when a passing truck sprays
water/mud on the windshield and you need to quickly increase the speed of the
wipers to high and put the windshield wash on. Or a rapidly changing climate
condition causes the windshield to suddenly fog over (doesn't happen that
often, but it has for me periodically), and you need to take a glove off to
get the screen to work.

My other gripe is that the screen isn't molded into the dash, but on a stem
sticking out -- it doesn't really look like it is part of the car. And looking
at the pictures, the only thing I can think of is that this was a cost cut, as
it is probably expensive designing and manufacturing all the normal dash
controls.

But then again, I could be wrong, but if not, I really hope the rest of the
industry doesn't follow. And I hope that this isn't a trend for Tesla, and
future models will have more driver friendly controls.

~~~
mikecleach
I suspect the rest of the industry won't follow because we have many decades
worth of research into why tactile buttons and knobs are a good thing while
piloting vehicles. This just reeks of Musk overriding his designers in service
of a pure vision, and frankly it's reckless and I plan to give Teslas I see on
the road a wide berth so they don't murder me while trying to change the
airflow via touchscreens with zero feedback.

~~~
derekp7
From a "visual" statement, at least from the pictures, something about that
dash (at least to me, others may differ) screams out "cheap" and "cost cut".
I'd really like to know if this was the case (cost cut), or if it really was a
design choice.

~~~
mikecleach
My suspicion is less cost cutting and more designers not being allowed to do
good work. A lot of the interior decisions feel like the results of edicts
from the top by someone who has no design sense.

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tammer
All these comments about hardware buttons will in a few years inspire the same
chuckles reading comments about how hardware keyboards are absolutely
essential for cellphones from 2007.

~~~
xyzzyz
Somehow almost all phone manufacturers in 2018 still include hardware buttons
in their phones, precisely when the UX of a hardware button is better.

~~~
voodooranger
The Model 3 also has some hardware buttons.

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matte_black
Should I cancel my Model 3 reservation and get my $1000 back?

Or could I sell it off to someone who now wants a Tesla Model 3 faster?

~~~
kjksf
Tesla doesn't allow that without written consent ([https://teslanomics.co/can-
i-sell-my-model-3-reservation/](https://teslanomics.co/can-i-sell-my-
model-3-reservation/)).

That being said, you can try buying the car and re-selling it immediately.

Whether someone would take you up on that offer is another question.

~~~
rorosaurus
Additionally, in the agreement you sign when you take delivery, I believe
there is a clause requiring you to not resell for a profit.

~~~
dawnerd
Good luck enforcing that. Sell the car at cost and sell a token item for the
remainder...

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dmode
I don't understand everyone's complaints about Model 3 missing tactile
buttons. I went from BMW (which had buttons everywhere) to Model S. I have had
the S for 2 years and have never missed any tactile button. Nor have I met any
Model S owner who has said "I missed those buttons". Tesla allows for an
overnight test drive. Try the S. You will not miss any buttons.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Nor have I met any Model S owner who has said "I missed those buttons".
> Tesla allows for an overnight test drive.

The second sentence helps explain the first: people who would miss the buttons
don't become Model S owners.

~~~
dmode
I don't think it explains anything. A car purchase decision is based on a
number of different factors. Availability of buttons is certainly one of them,
and it is reasonable to believe that many Tesla owners have bought their
vehicles despite lack of physical buttons as a compromise. For example, in the
Model X forum, you would see a lot of X owners buying the car despite and
Falcon Wing Doors and complaining about it later. This doesn't happen at all
about the lack of physical buttons.

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SubiculumCode
If the Tesla model 3 was really shipping with an advanced UI, it would feature
real tactile dumb buttons. Instead, it removes utility for 'clean' lines. I
appreciate the approach (e.g. it worked for Apple), but soft buttons are a
bane, IMO.

~~~
jamiegreen
Perhaps each to their own, but I find the maze of meaningless buttons on most
steering wheels to be far worse

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nilkn
For anyone interested, Doug DeMuro's video on the Model 3 is probably the most
informative I've seen:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6VqldjTT8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6VqldjTT8)

~~~
AlimJaffer
One of my favourite reviewers. He can be a bit hokey at times, but he truly
understands and appreciates cars.

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maxxxxx
The instrumentation probably won't age well. In 10 years the screen will look
like a relic from the stone age.

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mandeepj
Tesla now has a ton of experience. Can someone please help me understand why
Model 3 production has been so challenging? I get this part that it requires a
new production line and have its own part list. Is that the challenge?

Btw, detroitnews.com is a navigation nightmare - popup after popup, auto play
ads

~~~
jacquesm
> I get this part that it requires a new production line and have its own part
> list. Is that the challenge?

Yes. Making cars is hard. Making them with a low defect rate is harder still.
Making a completely new car on a completely new line is super hard, especially
if the cars have to be relatively cheap.

~~~
yorby
Hopefully the Model 3 has a lower defect rate then previous Teslas

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mozumder
Need comparison to GM Bolt EV, probably it's most direct competitor. My bro
just got one of those, and it seems to live up to the hype as well.

~~~
jbuild
I’m curious if the average Model 3 buyer is the same as the average electric
car buyer. The Model 3 isn’t just an electric car the same way a GM Bolt EV
is, the Tesla has all the self-driving features that are still relatively
unmatched by other offerings in the market. The Autonomous Bolt EV doesn’t go
into production until next year.

~~~
telchar
I would consider another EV - for me that's the main I'm looking for in my
next car. The reason I'm waiting for a model 3 rather than already driving a
Bolt or Leaf is largely a matter of battery longevity. I want to have some
assurance that the battery will not need replacing in the first 5-10 years.
Tesla so far seems to be the best in that regard with their large packs and
active pack management. The beauty and performance of the car are a nice plus,
but even with that I'm not certain I'll wind up with a 3.

~~~
elago
What data have you found regarding superiority of the Tesla Model 3 battery
pack vs the Bolt.

From my research, the Leaf is far behind, but the Bolt and Model 3 seem very
similar almost to the point where I'd guess driving style and heater usage
would make up the difference.

~~~
telchar
I was basing that concern mostly on bad reports of the Leaf battery, good
reports of the Tesla battery (someone put together a data set of range loss vs
mileage) and lack of data on the Bolt.

I haven't seen data yet on the Bolt. The other child comment suggests it's
favorable, though. If new data shows the Bolt as having similar longevity to
the Tesla then it's more of a contender for me, although I don't think highly
of GM or their cars in general.

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mwilliaams
I just want to add that the car doesn't totally lack hardware controls. There
are some buttons and up/down sticks on the steering wheel.

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RickJWag
I wish they'd make one with less premium content and minimal weight, priced
and competitive with something like a GTI or Civic Si.

I'd also like a Civic Type R, but the wait-list on those is just as silly.

They're making great cars, but you have to wait for them.

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giarc
Although not professionally taken, those interior shots make it look terrible
inside. The back seat looks like it might before a base model Dodge Dart or
something. The dash looks like it is a vehicle driven by Robocop.

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paulcole
Holy cow, I didn't realize they were missing production by so much.

Estimated 20k in December and ended up being just 1,500. May as well have said
they'd make a million of them lol.

~~~
kjksf
"missing" is relative.

The original official (from Tesla/Musk) estimate for mass production (5k /
week) of Tesla 3 was 2020.

In 2014 they moved that back by 2 years to early 2018.

In late 2017 they moved that forward by 6 months, to mid 2018.

So depending on which official estimate you're looking at, they are either 6
months late or 1.5 years ahead.

~~~
fmihaila
> The original official (from Tesla/Musk) estimate for mass production (5k /
> week) of Tesla 3 was 2020. In 2014 they moved that back by 2 years to early
> 2018. In late 2017 they moved that forward by 6 months, to mid 2018.

A friendly correction: funnily enough, the terms 'moving/pushing back' and '
moving/bringing forward' in time work in the opposite way to how non-native
English speakers (such as myself) tend to understand and use them. The mental
image I use to remember it has the event looking at me from the future, so
bringing it 'forward' moves it closer to where I stand, in the present.

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lafar6502
iPhone of the cars? Does it mean you will have to deal with some stupid or
inferior solutions forever because Apple thinks it’s so perfect that nothing
can be fixed?

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ckastner
Was the product hype ever a "hype"?

I thought it was the _production_ hype that had investors worried.

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peg_leg
"Unless you’ve been living on Mars, you know the Model 3’s production launch
has been a pickle "

And if you're living on Mars...your Roadster is on its way

~~~
russellbeattie
That launch had some issues as well... You'll have to head over to the
asteroid belt to pick it up.

