
Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret - g3e0
http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb
======
galhara
I tried googling the author's username and found this:

[https://thedonald.win/p/4FWoXTT/so-why-are-we-being-
whipped-...](https://thedonald.win/p/4FWoXTT/so-why-are-we-being-whipped-
into/)

"It escaped the Wuhan BL4 facility and was likely a bug/bio weapon Chinese
were working on in that facility using our tax & trade deficit dollars"

Seems a reliable source!

EDIT: Also from the user's post history:

"I'm not an academic so fuck all that citation waste of time"

~~~
msunderl
I'm surprised you didn't just call the author a racist or some other slander.
If you wish to debunk his theory, by all means do so. Use research and make
your points. Attacking his character and accusing him of a conspiracy theory
is not very convincing to those of us who use critical thinking.

~~~
daedalus311
The top OP has zero sources and then says "fuck all those citation [sic]."

OP above you is merely revealing this non-reliability.

Top OP might be correct but zero sources makes me immediately question every
single argument. Dude can't be bothered to name ONE SOURCE! One! A paper. A
Person. An organization....anything. Nope! Nada. Zilch.

~~~
Darwin1999
It seems that your problem is with the content of the article, not the lack of
sources. Would you be objecting to the article if it said the drug was
ineffective? Doubtful.

~~~
brentonator
Yes, we would be doubting everything the article said when it was an argument
cast by a lunatic spouting numerous other conspiracy theories like Covid-19 is
a bioengineered virus that escaped a bioresearch lab.

------
mtmail
I'm with "Be aware that the author has low trust factor and may have put the
piece together from other sources without having a clue what he was writing
about." until I see credentials.

[http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/04/05/wuhan-f...](http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/04/05/wuhan-
flu-21/#comment-1304127)

"All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media
piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will
now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media
actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of
thousands of lives. Shame on them."

The media critique part reads more like a political rant than scientific
discourse.

~~~
jstewartmobile
If his methodology is not on point, his hypothesis should be waaaay off point,
and very easy to debunk.

If that is the case, why are you attacking his lack of credentials and
politics instead of his hypothesis?

edit: here is an actual paper saying the same thing the medium post is

[https://chemrxiv.org/ndownloader/files/22129965](https://chemrxiv.org/ndownloader/files/22129965)

~~~
lern_too_spel
Why not get your information from someone who cites their sources correctly
instead of a crank who doesn't and mixes conspiracy theories in for good
measure?

~~~
jstewartmobile
linked an academic paper... 33 citations... every actual MD I've shared it
with has responded with something along the lines of " _very interesting_ " or
" _compelling_ " or " _explains what some of the nurses are seeing_ "

if a crank takes the theory of relativity to heart, does that invalidate it?

strong pedants aren't necessarily strong thinkers

~~~
lern_too_spel
> if a crank takes the theory of relativity to heart, does that invalidate it?

Absolutely not. Reread my comment. There are experts who describe the theory
of relativity and link to papers supporting it. It is far better to link to
articles from those experts than to articles from cranks who happen to get
relativity correct but intersperse their articles with conspiracy theories.

A Flat Earther might write an article about geometry where the geometry is
valid and then mix in unsubstantiated claims about the shape of the Earth.
Would you say that is a good article about geometry? No. You would link to an
article about geometry that sticks to just the facts.

~~~
jstewartmobile
" _Why not get YOUR information from..._ "

I got _my_ information from the academic article
([https://chemrxiv.org/ndownloader/files/22129965](https://chemrxiv.org/ndownloader/files/22129965)).
Then I saw this submission on HN that I felt was an OK summary of it. Then I
saw your ilk flag it.

An interesting hypothesis is an interesting hypothesis--even when it does not
come from our pill-pushing, astroturfing, tell-us-more-about-harry-and-meghan-
while-the-bombs-are-falling mainstream media.

~~~
lern_too_spel
Nobody here is advocating upvoting articles about Harry and Meghan. Your error
in reasoning is almost as bad as saying we shouldn't upvote Medium articles at
all because a lot of articles on Medium are about frivolous hobbies.

You _are_ advocating upvoting articles from blithering conspiracy theorists
just because part of the article has something that is based in science. You
should have just submitted the actual science article instead.

~~~
jstewartmobile
How about responding to the words I wrote instead of the ones you imagined? I
did not advocate " _upvoting articles from blithering conspiracy theorists_."

I have advocated two things:

1\. Not flagging/censoring/de-platforming people for their screwy opinions.
Most people aren't stupid, and can assess statements well enough without your
assistance. If you downvoted him because you disagree, great! That's what
votes are for. However, flagging this is an abuse. His synopsis was mostly
consistent with the research, and there was nothing uncivil in his
"blithering."

2\. If an idea is incorrect, attack the idea, not the person. Going after the
guy's politics and his (lack of) credentials is just a lazy, thinly-veiled,
_ad hominem_ when the idea is of an objective nature.

And if you are going to ding him on credentials (not that you should), what
exactly are yours?

~~~
lern_too_spel
Where did I ding him on credentials or politics, and where did I say that the
post should be flagged?

I just said that it's a low quality article. There are many high quality
articles on hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin treatment
([https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin](https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin)),
some of which discuss additional treatments that are also undergoing testing
based on the blood disease hypothesis, so there is no reason to upvote this
one.

------
tomohawk
A family member is a nurse treating these patients at the hospital. She was
relating how the blood of covid patients has a very different color. It is
very dark. Is that related to this?

EDIT: She also noted that many of the patients were breathing fine, but their
pulse ox would just drop and drop.

EDIT2: really? downvotes for asking a questions and seeking info?

~~~
g3e0
I am not a doctor, but if true, that sounds completely consistent with this
hypothesis (deoxygenated blood is darker, and being able to breathe won't help
if your hemoglobin can't carry oxygen)

I would be fascinated to hear their take on this article.

------
newsbinator
I read this the other day (before it got blocked on Medium) and to my layman
eyes it sounded plausible.

But I'm not a medical researcher and this is not medical research- it's more
of a guess.

I'm looking forward to some expert comments here on whether this theory has
any basis in reality.

~~~
jstewartmobile
This modern tendency to purge instead of rebut is very disturbing.

If the man is talking nonsense, it should be easy to refute him. It would also
serve as a great " _teaching moment_ " to help everyone sharpen their BS
detectors.

~~~
brentonator
It's not easy to refute when there are 10000x as many uneducated people as
there are actual scientists who could be trusted to refute it.

This is how online communities work. Small number of moderators fighting off
an endless stream of BS.

We can't encourage discussion on life or death matters when they are shared
without even citing a single source! There is no debate, just emotional
pandering.

------
lizrn
I took care of a gentleman the other day in the icu and this seems plausible
but am also cautious as he was the first young man I took care of who had(?)
to be intubated due to a drop in SAO2 from little activity ....his recovery
was very slow but he also didn’t appear to be in distress the way I thought he
would. The doctors are proactively incubating to prevent an emergent or urgent
intubation. I questioned as I would normally being an icu nurse. This
information presented is interesting although there is no author or scientific
data. 🧐

------
freeulysses
this aligns with the story as well. I cannot fathom why, when lives are on the
line and the medical community does not have a sure-fire solution, that anyone
would be so crass to shut down civil questions and speech. If you disagree,
disagree, but don't downvote reasonable responses.

[https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/nyc-doctor-says-coronavirus-
ve...](https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/nyc-doctor-says-coronavirus-ventilator-
settings-are-too-high/)

[https://www.the-
hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/220301/c...](https://www.the-
hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/220301/coronavirus-updates/protocol-
driven-covid-19-respiratory-therapy-doing)

------
saminaustin
Based on this paper. There seems to be merit to the argument.

Essentially these researchers claim that they modeled the corona virus surface
proteins and found that they will bind to hemoglobin and cause it to release
the iron atom - making it non-functional. This leads to the other symptoms of
COVID-19. Given the severity of the outbreak it is certainly a hypothesis that
others should test to validate or discredit. But based on scientific analysis,
not just twitter snarking.

[https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surf...](https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173)

------
TonRoly
I am not a doctor... I am just a regular person who doesn’t understand why
articles and posts similar to this including videos on YouTube, Facebook and
other places are being removed.

I found this to be an interesting article and true or false Doesn’t it fall
under the Freedom of Speech... I sent this link to several people I know that
are in the medical industry one of which is a brilliant doctor on the front
lines saving lives at NCH hospital in Naples Florida... but before she sees it
it is no longer available...

I track this to this thread and see everyone debating everything from politics
to science... yet why was this removed I. The first place? I’m sorry but when
my mother raised me she was adamant about the point that we could say anything
we wanted to anyone that we wanted and as long as it didn’t hurt anybody we
were free to do so… Now I’m finding it very disturbing situation where
information that I felt was important and needed to be looked at by people
that I needed to trust to tell me if it was correct or not etc. etc. now it’s
gone and I come to this group debating… And thank goodness I found out about
this.

~~~
brentonator
This was removed because it was half-conspiracy and half-maybe-useful. In any
case you can't encourage people to "share and debate" half-biased articles.

Share the actual studies! Debate those. Don't encourage the very armchair
scientists the author derides in his article.... The author of the article is
one too!

You don't go to your friend and open a debate about how you should treat your
cancer, you go to your doctor and start the conversation there.

------
shahrukh8
You can read it at
[https://archive.is/ONUmi#selection-273.62-273.143](https://archive.is/ONUmi#selection-273.62-273.143)

------
cincijones
This is totally incorrect. First, the MOA of hydroxychloroquinoline (HCQ) in
malaria is completely incorrect. It works through lysosomal function regarding
the presentation of antigens to the immune system. Secondly, Covid-19 is not a
DNA virus but an RNA virus, DNA is not involved nor is an interaction with
hemoglobin involved in the anti-malaria activity of HCQ. There is nothing in
the scientific/medical lit as of today about any interaction with hemoglobin
and covid-19, nor any reason to think HCQ would interfere in such process.
(WKJ, Professor of Pharmacology)

~~~
SeekerOfOne
I believe this paper qualifies as scientific/medical lit:

COVID-19: Attacks the 1-Beta Chain of Hemoglobin and Captures the Porphyrin to
Inhibit Human Heme Metabolism SOURCE:
[https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surf...](https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173)

------
mensetmanusman
Let’s hope this is accurate! If we have a straightforward way to cope with
dropping O2 values in blood, this is great.

------
nunez
Not sure of the OP’s credentials but this has been discussed often in
/r/COVID19 and has some truth to it

------
freeulysses
[https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/nyc-doctor-says-coronavirus-
ve...](https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/nyc-doctor-says-coronavirus-ventilator-
settings-are-too-high/)

