
Munchery CEO Tri Tran's harrowing journey to Silicon Valley - miraj
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-01-05/how-a-vietnamese-refugee-is-rethinking-food-delivery-in-america
======
jobrack
A bit tangential, but I grew up in an area with a lot of Vietnamese immigrants
- so many, in fact, that I was regularly the only white face in a restaurant
or store.

Watching the wider world grapple with unhealthy diets and the boring
('boring') healthy alternative, Vietnamese food has always struck me as THE
perfect solution.

I'd been waiting for a while for someone to start a Vietnamese food chain in
Australia and when it did - check out Rolld.com - it immediately blew up.

Taking Cuon (rice paper rolls), Bun, Goi, and the perennial favourite Pho, you
have the foundations of a week's worth of delicious and healthy meals. (My
mouth is watering just writing this)

Which makes me wonder why Munchery hasn't been pushing Vietnamese food harder,
given its origins. I just don't understand - in a world where Chipotle
dominates, where is its Vietnamese equivalent?

~~~
supahfly_remix
The founders of Chipotle started Shophouse which they describe as "the bold
flavors of Southeast Asia," so you're on to something.

Takeout food is generally unhealthy, though. The pho I've eaten has off the
charts amounts of sodium, but it does have plenty of vegetables.

~~~
viewer5
> Takeout food is generally unhealthy, though. The pho I've eaten has off the
> charts amounts of sodium

Is there something takeout places usually put in it that people who make it at
home don't?

~~~
jedrek
Most people have trouble adding MSG directly to their food, restaurants have
no such qualms.

~~~
greggman
MSG is not unhealthy AFAIK. Wikipedia covers that for one. For anecdata see
Japan. Highest life expectancy, most msg usage. And it's commonly used in home
cooking

~~~
kbart
Arguably, MSG itself isn't unhealthy (in limited doses), but it enhances taste
so much, that it's often used to cover up for poor quality or even expired
products. For example, lower quality hot dogs without MSG and other additives
are basically inedible, for the same reason junk food is tasty as well.

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rjett
Rethinking food delivery? Perhaps there's something novel with their real-time
routing algorithms, but that's a razor thin edge in food. The food game is an
old game. To put that much money to use in a food business, your best hope is
to buy distribution facilities where the real estate will appreciate and then
convince enough consumers to get out of the mindset of cruising the grocery
store freezer isle for convenient microwavable meals. So in the end, you're
some premium, made for urban environments, version of lean cuisine. I'm sure
there's a market for that, but is it a market worth this much investment?

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charleypyn
What struck me about the article is how much effort this company has gone
through. It equated the business struggle with the harrowing escape of the
founder from Vietnam. And after all that struggle (both the escape and
spending millions on the business), the company still doesn't have a real
business model. It left me with a feeling of hopelessness for the company, not
the feeling of triumph I was expecting.

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howeyc
What's the advantage of this compared to heating up a frozen dinner you bought
from the grocery store?

Doesn't a $10-$15 dollar frozen dinner have quality ingredients too?

Or does it taste a lot better if it's frozen for hours compared to days/weeks?

Honest questions. These services don't exist in my city yet, so I don't know.

~~~
overcast
I think the idea here, is that those traditional frozen supermarket meals
you're referring to, are just loaded with salt and preservatives. These are
meant to be more like mom freezing leftovers for you.

~~~
jonknee
Perhaps salt (depends on the brand), but because the food is frozen it doesn't
need a bunch of preservatives.

~~~
overcast
It doesn't matter, they are. Freezing isn't indefinite shelf life.

~~~
jonknee
Look at the label sometime, you will be surprised. I just opened my freezer
and looked at the back of an Amy's meal, it's not surprisingly real food:

[http://www.amys.com/products/product-detail/indian-
meals/000...](http://www.amys.com/products/product-detail/indian-meals/000058)

> Rice, onions, peas, garbanzo beans, water, paneer cheese (, distilled
> vinegar, diced tomatoes, tomato puree, expeller sunflower oil, carrots, sea
> salt, garlic, cornstarch, turmeric, paprika

They even have a line specifically for low sodium.

~~~
overcast
You're cherry picking an example of an all natural, organic, frozen dinner.
Yes, they exist, and that's what this guy is doing. But historically,
processed, frozen food, is all sodium and preservatives.

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LoSboccacc
healthy/gourmet food deliveries? innovative.

[http://londonist.com/2015/02/londons-gourmet-food-
deliveries](http://londonist.com/2015/02/londons-gourmet-food-deliveries)

[http://www.foodtechconnect.com/2014/04/12/omgfoodtech-the-
fo...](http://www.foodtechconnect.com/2014/04/12/omgfoodtech-the-food-startup-
fundraising-frenzy/)

I really can't see where there is the 'rethinking delivery' here - just eat
was interesting, as middle tier between me and the food - but I think there
still some margin for something like that but with a private fleet of delivery
guys, to bring the long tail of brick and mortar establishment over the
internet without changing their workflow (much)

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jzwinck
Pulau Galang, where the protagonist lived as a refugee, is fascinating. It's a
small island in a small chain which many people now call by the name of the
largest: Batam. Today there are bridges but when the Chinese-Vietnamese
refugees were encamped there, Galang Island was totally isolated. Foreign
missions built churches which today are very eerie, and the refugees built
their own informal economy and businesses at a moment when they had nowhere
even to apply for jobs. It took many years to discharge some of those refugees
(who numbered a whole lot more than the 10k suggested in this article).

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galang_Island](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galang_Island)

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jmorphy88
There is not much interesting about the business itself. More likely, the
article's purpose is to advertise for the refugee experience in America.

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habosa
I almost never get food delivery (SF is loaded with good food you can walk to)
but I have tried Munchery and it is impressive. The food is delicious and
tastes fresh, and they delivery it really quickly since there is nearly no
prep time on their side. The only thing is they tend to sell out by the end of
the day, you have to order before you're hungry.

I think there's a spectrum of food options, and Munchery fits into a slot
where I had not previously seen an option:

    
    
      * Shop and cook yourself
      * Get grocery delivery that you order, cook yourself (Instacart)
      * Get grocery delivery that someone else chooses, cook yourself (Blue Apron)
      * Have someone else deliver and cook a fresh meal for you (Munchery)
      * Have someone else deliver a restaurant meal for you (Seamless)
      * Go to a restaurant

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vkb
The stark difference in tone between the beginning of this article and the end
was startling. Judging from the set-up, I thought it was going to be a profile
of a company working to improve conditions in rural areas, or for immigrants.

But the inherent mismatch between the depiction of Tran's very hard early life
resulting from the aftermath of war and logistical difficulties in a third-
world country made the problem he's facing now, how to make food for middle-
to-upper-class households in America, seem laughable and trivial.

What problems are start-ups like Munchery trying to solve? Not the conditions
that created Tran and many like him, but the issue of those who don't have
home chefs.

I'm not saying clawing back time from the day and isn't important and isn't
valuable. It most definitely is, especially for parents working in the "second
shift"[1], after work.

But depicting the idea that Munchery is some great force with a vision while
ignoring the larger systemic problems in the story (poverty, access to clean
water, aftermath of war) that propelled Tran to arrive in America is a failure
of journalism.

Let's work on - and shed light on - the harder stuff.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Shift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Shift)

~~~
dang
I think it's uncharitable to take Tran's interesting story and turn it into a
criticism of him for not working on "harder stuff". You didn't phrase it that
way, but it follows from what you're saying, and that's unfair. A person with
his background is as free to work on what motivates him as anyone else is.

No one would disagree that "harder stuff" is important, but the trope of using
this in arguments to belittle what others are working on comes across as
finger-pointing. On an actions-speak-louder-than-words level, few of us are in
a position to judge others about this, and I have the impression that those
who are, tend not to.

~~~
charleypyn
Given how hard it was for him to escape Vietnam, I do think it's fair to say
that he should be working on something really impactful. And I'm not sure if
food delivery is it.

~~~
dang
It isn't anyone else's place to say what somebody should be working on.

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MichaelBurge
The article says they've raised $115 million to deliver in 4 cities. The
populations of those cities are:

San Francisco: 837,442

New York City: 8,400,000

Seattle: 652,405

Greater Los Angeles: 3,800,000

For a total of 13.6 million people, or $8.45 per person.

I looked at one example by finding an SF zip code, and found they were
charging $10.95 for 650 calories(if you assume 2000 calories, you might say
they're looking to raise $10.95 at a $33.69 daily food valuation). It's also
59 calories per dollar: [https://munchery.com/menus/sf/#/0/dinner/bbq-pork-
with-rice-...](https://munchery.com/menus/sf/#/0/dinner/bbq-pork-with-
rice-1/info)

I checked a couple other zip codes, and they do seem consistent with
$30-$34/day in food 'valuation' by calories.

Looking at San Francisco, it looks like people spend an average of $3,937 to
buy 48% of their away-from-home food(2000 * 0.48 * 365 / 3937 = 89 calories
per dollar), and $4,215 on 52% of their at-home food(90 calories per dollar)
[http://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-
release/ConsumerExpendi...](http://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-
release/ConsumerExpenditures_SanFrancisco.htm)

So their food is about 50% more expensive than the average in the region, per
calorie. If you assume people's expenditures rise with their income exactly,
and that the average income in San Francisco was $92,780 from that same link,
then you'd expect them to be targeting people who make 1.5 * $92,780 =
$139,170 which is the 74th percentile in San Francisco. Applying this
uniformly reduces the 13.6 million audience to 3.264 million(edit: Not sure
you can apply a percentile like that).

I'm not sure what their markup is, but if you assume it's the 50% rather than
them simply choosing more expensive restaurants, then they need to generate
$3x in sales to generate $x in revenue. So $115 million / 3.264 million =
$35.23/person * 3 = $105.70/per person on average to make revenue equal to
their investment. If you assume only 10% of its target audience ends up using
Munchery, then this rises to $1057/person, or about 96 overpriced meals. They
appear to outsource all the actual work to restaurants, but they might get a
bulk discount. Maybe that's eaten up by their operations.

You could reduce this by a factor of f by assuming that the valuation was some
fixed multiple f of their valuation. I've heard 3 is common for f, and
probably these are preferred stock so the multiple might be higher.

I don't know - it seems like the average yuppie would have to buy way more
overpriced delivery Chinese food than I expect is reasonable for their
business to make sense. My historical credit card statements show about $6/day
on all my food, compared to their 'valuation' of $33.69.

I'm not sure I understand where the investor money's coming from though: It's
traditionally hard to get money for a restaurant(loans require higher down
payments, etc.) since they tend to lose money. Buffets tend to be more
efficient than sit-down restaurants like they indicate here, and I've also
seen some restaurants hire delivery staff. If they sold it to investors as "We
want to set up a couple buffets three times as big as average with some
delivery staff instead of a sit-down area", I can't see them actually raising
the money. (The 3x comes from me looking at a local buffet in Portland, which
was 11,000 square feet, and comparing it to the 30,000 one mentioned in the
article. Admittedly theirs probably doesn't have any sit-down room).

~~~
prplhaz4
Your San Francisco Bay Area population is way off - I'm guessing you actually
mean San Francisco proper (not the entire SF Bay Area). Checking my former zip
codes it does not seem to extend out into the East Bay yet.

~~~
MichaelBurge
I think you're right. My method for that was to punch into Google 'San
Francisco Bay Area population' and write down the number that came up. 'San
Francisco population' gives the same number, so I guess it was just the city.

It's a good idea to try individual zip codes: It seems like you could get more
accurate population data by trying all the possible zip codes and summing the
associated census data.

~~~
triangleman
The Census actually measures city sizes in terms of "Metropolitan Statistical
Areas" or MSA's. Here are the populations for the areas in question:

    
    
      SF-Oakland-Hayward MSA: 4,516,276
      New York SA: 13,038,826 (according to [1])
      Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue MSA: 3,671,478
      Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim MSA: 12,944,801
    

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_statistical_areas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_statistical_areas)

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rajacombinator
Munchery has the best user experience/delight I've encountered since Uber and
Lyft.

