
Ask HN: Any advice for a disillusioned young developer? - 265358
I am currently working as a full-stack engineer at one of the &quot;big&quot; tech companies in the bay area. I also happen to be the youngest FTE (hired at 19). I always held a romanticized notion of what it would be like to relocate here and work at a large tech company.<p>However, since coming here, I have struggled to find purpose in my work, and have also failed to locate any professional or personal allies. I am not challenged by my current role, and I&#x27;ve also found it nearly impossible to gain any leverage or visibility within the company. Despite being given consistent positive feedback, I&#x27;m always being told that promotion &#x2F; recognition is just around the corner, or I just need to complete a few more projects, while my peers are moved ahead. This pattern has negatively affected my self confidence and job engagement, as well as my attitude towards software development and &quot;tech culture&quot; in general.<p>I&#x27;m not necessarily trying to identify the cause of this issue as much as I am trying to decide whether it&#x27;s worth staying in SV and potentially facing many more years of unhappiness, or whether I should relocate elsewhere and accept that Silicon Valley and I just aren&#x27;t meant for each other.<p>Has anyone else faced a similar situation?
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ljw1001
For the average employee, the main benefits of working for a tech giant are
what management theorists call 'hygiene' factors: Pay, benefits, prestige.
What makes a job good or bad, though, is intrinsic to the work itself, and the
people around you- especially your manager. It sounds like you need to find a
job doing work you like, with people you like. You can do that.

Getting work you like generally means something that is challenging, but not
overwhelming, in a place where it's safe to make mistakes. Make sure you go in
knowing what you'll be working on. This is a lot easier in a small co.

Consider the utility of the product you're making: Is it a net plus for the
world? But be realistic. It's the nature of capitalism that most are in it
only for the money. If they claim to be about changing the world, you can ask
for examples where they went above and beyond for their employees, community,
or customers.

On finding a company with good people, do your homework, starting with
glassdoor. Avoid any company where more than a few people criticize the CEO or
work-life.

For the rest of it, the hygiene factor that matters most is probably commute
time. Get a gig where you have some balance in your life, or at least aren't
wasting three hours a day going back and forth.

Finally, ask yourself if your expectations are realistic. 19 is pretty young
to be disillusioned.

Oh, And see PG's Startup School lecture. And really think about going back to
school.

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JSeymourATL
> I've also found it nearly impossible to gain any leverage or visibility
> within the company.

How have you asked?

Can you make a short list of 6–10 senior individuals in your company that you
can get access to? These might be Director or VP types.

Ask them (in-person preferably) if they have any projects or assignments you
might be able to assist them on. Tell them you're reaching out, looking for a
new challenge and professional growth.

They will likely welcome your initiative and assertiveness. And you might be
surprised what new opportunities this creates for you.

Ultimately, changing companies and moving away is easy. But the challenge of
raising your visibility and getting career traction doesn't go away. You can
get what you want, by helping others get what they want.

~~~
CyberFonic
+10 ! Your suggestion is great! A good strategy to follow for anybody who is
seeking to accelerate their progress through the hierarchy.

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calcsam
Yes. Get a new job.

Go to Hired or Indeed Prime, list yourself, and watch the offers come in.

This is your first full-time job, right? Some jobs are good. Some jobs are
good for a while. Some jobs are never good. It seems like this one was good
for a while.

I suspect that as the youngest FTE, there's a lot of internal politics around
promoting you. Possibly it involves you not having a college diploma (I assume
you don't). So leave. Go somewhere else, where your talents will be
recognized.

Incidentally, a friend of mine is 21yo, was hired at 19 as a full-stack dev at
his fast-growing startup in SF, promoted, and is now leading a team. I'm sure
you guys would enjoy meeting each other. Email me (email in profile) if you
want to be connected.

~~~
265358
Thanks for your input. I probably should've mentioned that I've been working
full time for around five years now, albeit at smaller companies. I will
definitely be reaching out!

~~~
_RPM
How do you work full time for 5 years if you're 19? 19-5 = 15 years old.
Wouldn't you have had required schooling to do as required by federal law?

~~~
265358
I dropped out of high school with parental consent at 15 (beginning of
sophomore year)

~~~
calcsam
Wow, cool! Yeah, while I'd hire you in a heartbeat, I'd guess that
discrimination due to your lack of traditional education is pretty real.

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jcr
Going from what you wrote, you have a sample size of only 1 company.

You're definitely smart enough to know a sweeping assessment of silicon valley
based on a single, isolated sample is a mistake.

Since you are talented enough to get hired by a "big tech company" in silicon
valley at the age of 19, then you're definitely talented enough to find tons
of other work here. There is _TONS_ of fascinating and rewarding work being
done here.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring](https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11012044](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11012044)

Before you go hopping into a new job, realize that nearly every task, paid or
personal, can occasionally feel like an unrewarding slog. Heck, even
contributing to fun stuff, like open source or HN, can occasionally feel like
a frustrating struggle, annoying hassle, pointless toil, or thankless grind.
When those lackluster moments happen and you can take a short break, just
divert your attention to something interesting for a while until they pass.

Also before you go hopping into a new job, have you been rewarding yourself
with spending free time doing interesting side projects?

Is there any technical itch that you've always wanted to computationally
scratch?

If you pick the right itch, you may end up creating your own startup. As John
Belushi once said, "If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your
own." The same applies for jobs.

Of course, having a full time engineering job will keep the lights on so to
speak, and it gives you the opportunity to spend your free time experimenting
on side projects you love. Lastly, don't forget that the Bay Area has _TONS_
of different types of user groups, maker sites, and enthusiast clubs with
regular meet-ups. There are also plenty of conferences and professional groups
here. All of these groups, places, and events are a humongous asset to the
curious and are thoroughly enjoyable.

Silicon Valley is what you make of it.

~~~
265358
I probably should've mentioned that I have been working full-time for around
five years, albeit at smaller companies. I do have a side project that I am
very passionate about, but I can never seem to find the time or get motivated
enough to work on it, unfortunately. I very much appreciate your insight into
having side projects, and will definitely put more effort into that.

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sebastianmck
Hey, I'm 18 and currently work fulltime at Facebook in London. I can
definently relate to some of the things you touched on, feel free to reach out
if you'd like to have a chat. Email should be in my profile.

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SFjulie1
The fact big companies in SV have been caught in a no poaching pact gives an
indication of how workers are considered by the owners: just lemons to be
pressed. They even strip you from your moral and patrimonial rights on any of
your inventions in exchange for some ridiculous equities that give them fiscal
advantages. And they call it "advantage". For whom? You do the valuable
original part of the job.

In exchange, like a kid you have free lolipops and you have a nice
kindergarten kind of ambiance, where immaturity and attitude prevails. You are
distracted from thinking.

I faced your situation. I find modern IT mildly innovative nowadays and
promises made at hiring often never held, IT culture often toxic. Especially
the lack of critical thinking.

Take some vacations. Whatever you plan next. You may have good reasons to be
disillusioned. (or none, the thinking is up to you)

Sometime just enjoying life is the right solution to a lot of problems.
Because, fuck the IT. Your life and the search for your own happiness matters
more than anything else.

By being honest, you are proving to be mature: trust yourself.

EDIT: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11009956](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11009956)

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woolybully
"full-stack", you say... Do you respect your stack? I've found that not only
do I have to respect the customers I'm building for, and believe in the
product we're making, I also have to believe in the technology stack we're
using. Part of that is a desire to keep my skills current, but a another,
large, part is a desire to build something well, something that will last. And
that's difficult to do with crappy tools and materials. Also, do you respect
the people you're working with? Maybe form a cohort within your company to
eventually break off and form another team/project/company.

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Cypher
Yea I resonate with similar experience, I've been working for a tech company
for 8 years. I found myself worked into an agile silo and my confidence
dwindled to an all-time low as the once creative problem-solving tasks turned
to maintenance. I tried to solve the issues by tinker a lot in my spare time
and exploring new technologies and ideas. However I'm finding it eats up all
my spare time and I get burned out and mentally drained. My plan is to save up
enough to support my family for 6 months and take a break to find a new path.

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CyberFonic
From what you write it appears that you are referring to a "big" yet new (aka
Startup) company. It is not unusual for promises being made and endlessly
deferred.

Look outside of your company to build up a network of allies. There is a
variety of opportunities, so you need only make an effort to get out there and
socialise.

The fact that your peers are promoted from around you suggests that you might
be showing you negativity at work. You might want to consider that the same
negativity could be making it harder to cultivate friendships.

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invalidOrTaken
I do not have any advice for the issue you're worried about.

I do have some advice that is still good, though.

It is: save up some money.

Being broke sucks. I don't advise it. If any of your plans involve "Be broke
for a while," I would advise against that plan.

That's all. I wish you good luck with the rest of it. It's just that the
problem you're complaining about is an ambiguous one that I can't help with
very well from here. But the one I mentioned is _not_ ambiguous, so I
mentioned it.

~~~
265358
This strikes me as extremely valuable advice. Thank you so much.

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visualsearchsv2
Have you considered going to a college/university, assuming you did not go
since you were hired at 19. College is a fun experience. There is nothing
wrong in taking a break and studying/partying. Since you are already good
enough to get an FTE position, you shouldn't have trouble when you
graduate/leave university.

~~~
265358
I don't really see much value in it at this point. Taking a break and pursuing
other interests or starting a company, maybe. But academia has just never
suited me. Which is a big part of why I dropped out. While I can't say I know
I wouldn't enjoy it, I do know that conventional education is not something
I'd consider a worthwhile investment.

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danjoc
It sounds like your gut is telling you to bail, but your heart is wanting to
hang on to that "big" tech company for prestige or whatever other reasons.

I agree with the other posters. Look for a better offer. In my experience, big
raises or promotions don't really happen. I've gotten my two biggest salary
bumps by changing employer.

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nartz
Im just reading into it, but you sound both depressed, and also like you are
finally growing up =D.

Things aren't always beautiful and rosey. You will find eventually how to take
a longer-term view of the world, to slow down, to start enjoying the day to
day by living it. Or you wont.

