
Kathy Sierra - ingve
https://deprogrammaticaipsum.com/kathy-sierra/
======
mrzool
> On the other hand, they also triggered a horrid revelation, the darkest
> nature of online harassment, with abject levels of abuse and misogyny. Maybe
> they played a minor role as catalysts opening the door to the decade of the
> Me Too movement.

The article closes with this surprising allegation without explaining anything
about it. What did these books have to do with harassment, abuse, misogyny and
MeToo? I'd be curios to know.

EDIT: Never mind, I've found what I wanted to know:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Sierra#Harassment_and_wi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Sierra#Harassment_and_withdrawal_from_online_life)

~~~
RickJWagner
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why someone would attack Kathy Sierra,
a mere book author. Incredible.

~~~
mrzool
Wait until you find out about wars and genocides!

------
nemesisj
I was lucky enough to hear Kathy Sierra speak in what I believe is one of her
last public appearances. I had never heard of her before. It remains one of
the best talks I’ve ever heard, not only because of the content, which was
excellent, but her delivery was incredible. She had something like 150 slides
that she bulldozed through flawlessly and she was really funny. After that I
learned about the harassment and I find it so disappointing That people can be
so cruel and that we have missed out on more contributions from her. I really
hope one day she’ll return but I completely understand if she doesn’t.

~~~
dmarinoc
BoS 2012? I was there and that presentation changed my way on how to (re)think
about users interactions with products. I don’t exaggerate if I say that the
ROI of attending that event (if only for her session) has been well over 1000x

~~~
bartread
She also did BoS Europe in 2014 but not sure she's been back since
unfortunately: [https://businessofsoftware.org/2017/08/kathy-sierra-
motivati...](https://businessofsoftware.org/2017/08/kathy-sierra-motivation-
matters/)

I saw the above talk first hand: well worth investing the time to watch.

------
archagon
Surprised this hasn’t been posted here yet:
[https://www.wired.com/2014/10/trolls-will-always-
win/](https://www.wired.com/2014/10/trolls-will-always-win/)

Kathy Sierra on online harassment, betrayal by her own community, and why
“don’t feed the troll” is not only ineffective, but a slap in the face to
those who face this kind of abuse.

------
doomrobo
That spurred a memory! I remember reading the pictured Head First HTML book
cover to cover when I was younger. A big part of it was the jokes. I remember
laughing out loud while reading the book, and I think it definitely positively
affected my idea of how difficult content could be presented. Humor is an
effective backdoor to get people to engage with otherwise difficult content.

------
mjw1007
« The third era actually started [...] in 2005. In this era, books are no
longer dry sequences of pages, with code snippets to run on a nearby computer;
their pages are full of examples, pictures, and fun. »

I haven't seen the "Head first" books this article is about, but the above
could be a description of any number of books from the 70s and 80s, like the
Leo Brodie Forth books.

~~~
raducu
I've read a couple and her books are amazingly good. I especially liked Head
First Design Patterns -- I've read 4-5 books on the subject, but the Head
First examples are the ones that have stuck with me after all these years.

Her SCJP books were also exceptionally good/the gold standard as far as I
remember.

~~~
bJGVygG7MQVF8c
I'm honestly surprised it was a woman behind Head First books because the
aesthetic of the series (in particular, the covers featuring a cute white or
asian girl looking up toward the reader supplicating pose) seemed (and seem)
like a kind of sexist fan service for the same online-troll demographic that
drove her out of the industry.

I still think the design accommodates the industry's demographics at the time.
Terrible what happened to her, but those books are embarrassing. To be fair
the specific decisions around what to put on the cover may not have been hers.

------
kace91
> On the other hand, they also triggered a horrid revelation, the darkest
> nature of online harassment, with abject levels of abuse and misogyny. Maybe
> they played a minor role as catalysts opening the door to the decade of the
> Me Too movement.

That's a strange way to end the article.

What happened? It is kind of weird to talk about the different eras as a
description for people who didn't live through them and then drop that
reference expecting the reader to know the context - just my two cents.

~~~
ColinWright
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Sierra#Harassment_and_wi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Sierra#Harassment_and_withdrawal_from_online_life)

~~~
kace91
Wow.. I was expecting random sexist comments, not lynching threats ( not that
the former are good, but that's a whole different league).

~~~
ColinWright
I've thought hard about saying anything here, but what the hey, let me make an
observation.

HN is a pretty good community. It's got a lot of smart, knowledgeable people
who share freely. They are generally curious, inquisitive, and interested in a
wide range of things.

And yet, I've been watching this item. It did well to start with, and even now
the number of upvotes it's had should have it on the front page. Why is it not
there?

My guess (as someone who's been around for a while and watched the dynamics,
but with no insider knowledge) is that people are flagging it.

I've seen similar submissions about people thrive and stay on the front page
for hours, but this one is being flagged. The primary differentiators are that
(a) this is a woman in tech, and (b) she was harassed by the tech community.
This is all hypothetical, hand-waving, "You Have No Proof!" territory, but
I've seen this played out before.

What happened to Kathy is vile, horrendous, and all-too-believable.

~~~
skinkestek
Another explanation: certain people - or an algorithm - will do anything to
get hot topics off the front page.

The moment any discussion starts to get "interesting", regardless of who it is
about, that moment it drops like a stone.

I guess it happens to any post where a number of people get lots of both
upvotes and downvotes or where a number of answers are flagged.

In that regard this site is like a young child of mine who has grown up in
such a happy home that when I sometimes say no to some idea my wife has that
child is wondering if we are going to divorce :-/

In the same way, on this site people are so polite that either the flamewar
detector or a number of users has become way too sensitive.

(That said: IMO it is a good thing that my children never see their parents
argue in anger and it is a good thing that people are used to everyone being
polite here, I just wish we could be a tiny bit less sensitive. Some hot
topics actually should be discussed some times, like this one.)

There's a link to contact the mods at the bottom of the page. They (most often
dang) usually reply, and it seems they use the feedback to tune the system.

(Yes BTW, this account is young, but I have been here a long time)

~~~
ColinWright
> _... either the flamewar detector or a number of users has become way too
> sensitive._

This hasn't triggered the flame-war filter, because the number of up-votes is
still higher than the number of comments.

> _... certain people - or an algorithm - will do anything to get hot topics
> off the front page._

Or not necessarily hot topics, just specifically topics that highlight, even
if only tangentially, that women are often driven out of tech by harassment,
including threats of rape and death, including to their families.

> _The moment any discussion starts to get "interesting", regardless of who it
> is about, that moment it drops like a stone._

There are many, many discussions that get "interesting" without that
happening.

> _... any post ... lots of both upvotes and downvotes ..._

You can't downvote a submission.

> _Some hot topics actually should be discussed some times, like this one._

Yes, although the evidence suggests that rational discussion about this topic
isn't possible, especially in a forum like this one. I genuinely long for the
day the topic can be discussed constructively, and even more for the day it's
a complete non-issue. I doubt I'll see either.

> _There 's a link to contact the mods at the bottom of the page._

I suspect the mods are happy to see this sink, because the alternative is that
it will erupt into an unpleasant cesspit of people thinking/claiming that they
are being logical and rational, when really they aren't.

> _... [the mods] ... usually reply, and it seems they use the feedback to
> tune the system._

They are the reason the site remains even remotely interesting and useful.

------
zby
I hoped she has a blog again - but this is only about her books.

~~~
akdas
It also barely touches on the harassment she encountered that caused her to
withdraw from technology and her online presence. The reason that's relevant
is I remember her blog fondly, and it's sad we lost someone who was so clearly
invested in teaching others.

I hope we can learn from that lesson, though given the negative response I've
seen to Codes of Conduct and the calling out of sexism within our industry, I
can see growth being a very slow process.

~~~
skinkestek
Codes of Conducts shouldn't be necessary to tell people not to break the laws
which seems to be what happened here.

Codes of Conduct also has a number of downsides, first and foremost the
creation of more meta games.

Also, for the record:

This very site, one of the nicest forums there is, together with lobste.rs and
others: none of the have stupid CoCs and they are still among the nicest sites
there is.

~~~
akdas
HN has a form of a Code of Conduct
([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)),
and strong moderation to remove truly bad-faith comments. These two aspects
are really important to the level of discourse here.

And while I would say HN is often times civil, I've definitely seen
misogynistic or otherwise demeaning comments here.

~~~
skinkestek
HNs guidelines are totally OK and the moderators have proven ywar by year how
reasonable they are even to us who don't always agree.

If CoC were like HN guidelines and enforced the same way I guess almost nobody
worth listening to would care at all if every project had one.

------
rvanmil
I loved the Head First books, looking back I kind of owe my career to them
because these books helped me level up my programming skills from hobby to
job. I used to recommend these books all the time to both junior and
experienced colleagues.

------
jzer0cool
Summary of article (I estimate some dates):

3 eras of programming books.

1: (1970's) - Booked produced by megacorps (e.g. IBM), and possibly dry
content format.

2: (1980's - 1990's) - Rise of Hello World era, books with hello world
introductory examples.

3: (2000's) - Effective books - (e.g. effective c++, effective java)

~~~
metaphor
> _3: (2000 's) - Effective books - (e.g. effective c++, effective java)_

The author refers to that as the "2.5 era".

~~~
jzer0cool
Thank you for pointing that out, you are right. I had intended to complement
with dates with 3 bullet points and missed that fine point.

2.5 era: " ... some might argue that the third era was the “Effective” era,
with books such as Meyers’ Effective C++, Bloch’s Effective Java or Wagner’s
Effective C# as flagship examples. But I consider these books, as useful as
they are, just an offspring of the second era; a much needed upgrade. Let’s
say, then, it was the 2.5 era of programming books".

3.0 era: "... at a time where the dot-com boom opened the door for new ideas,
right in the middle of the Web 2.0 craze, and right before the rise of the
smartphone and social media. Through the use of comic images, unusual text
layout, and a fantastic sense of humor, Kathy Sierra argues, readers can learn
the concepts easier; tricking the brain into the proper levels of dopamine".

At barnes & nobles / borders I always grabbed one of these books which made
content enjoyable to read. She sparked a new era of genres produced by other
authors, for example, an anime version of learning python.

