
Show HN: TagSpaces – An open source personal data manager - tagspaces
https://www.tagspaces.org/
======
cyxxon
Looks nice, but for personal use I don't like the idea of a tool like this
changing the file names, and then I see the option in the Pro version to use
"sidecar files". Nice! It then brought up another question I have often had
with projects like these that start out on Unix like systems and are then
available for Windows as well: why do they use dot files on Windows and tell
the user to hide them manually, instead of using files with a "hidden"
attribute? Part of porting should be adhering to the local conventions, should
it not? Since this is not the first time I stumble upon dot files in Windows
Explorer I am left wondering there is a real reason for it?

~~~
kijin
Even worse are Unix utilities that leave dotfiles in every single directory
they touch. Just because they're hidden doesn't mean that they're not dirty!
Pleas keep your crap restricted to ~/.config, which exists for this very
reason.

~~~
pjmlp
> ~/.config, which exists for this very reason.

On GNU/Linux systems maybe, it isn't part of POSIX.

~~~
qznc
It does not conflict with POSIX though. Why not do it on BSD as well?

~~~
pjmlp
There are more UNIX systems out there.

How will you enforce something like that to all UNIX eco-system?

~~~
scrollaway
Convention. The concept of configuration in dotfiles is no more posix than the
concept of configuration in ~/.config.

~~~
pjmlp
The point was _enforcing_ UNIX applications to use ~/.config.

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Motomorgen
Wow! I've been looking for something exactly like this for a long time. I am a
motovlogger (which is someone who rides a motorcycle while vlogging) and I
generate tons of small videos that I've always struggled to organize. I'll
need to use random videos from months and months ago sometimes and it's so
easy to lose track of them when you have thousands upon thousands of small
short video clips.

One question/request I might have is if it is possible to attach a general
note to a specific file. It's helpful to know what a video is about without
having to watch the whole thing.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
FWIW KDE does metadata for files, eg comments/tags/star rating, that you can
see in the dolphin information panel and search using their standard toolset.

(You can see the add comment "link" in the images here
[https://userbase.kde.org/Dolphin/File_Management#Information](https://userbase.kde.org/Dolphin/File_Management#Information)
.)

------
mrmondo
I like it (even if it is a js app), but I don't like how it renames my files,
especially without asking me if that's alright first.

It broke several other scripts and shortcuts I had due to the file name
changing without me knowing.

------
jonathanoliver
Camlistore is another open source project which works well. It's a bit more
technical than this one appears to be.

~~~
fizzbatter
I love Camlistore but have been hesitant to use it. They're just doesn't seem
to be enough tracking behind it.. if more people were into it, i would be
really happy.

------
njd
Instead of renaming the file, TagSpaces could create a symbolic link and
preserve the original file name. All such links could be managed in a
TagSpaces folder.

> ln -s ../fluffy.jpg "fluffy [cat].jpg"

Tags could be added by linking to the latest one:

> ln -s "fluffy [cat].jpg" "fluffy [cat] [yarn].jpg"

This would allow TagSpaces to have temporal knowledge as to when tags were
added or removed.

If the links are cascaded as I have shown, then when the original file is
moved, TagSpaces will only need to rebuild the first link. The rest will still
work.

The issue of the tags causing the name to be too long can be addressed by a
different tag naming strategy.

> ln -s ../fluffy.jpg "fluffy [+cat].jpg"

> ln -s "fluffy [+cat].jpg" "fluffy [+yarn].jpg"

> ln -s "fluffy [+yarn].jpg" "fluffy [-yarn].jpg"

This would require TagSpaces to have some simple logic to determine which tags
were relevant at a particular point in time.

~~~
cyphar
That system won't work for very many tags. Unix systems have limits on the
number of symbolic links you can resolve when trying to access a file. I can't
remember the limit on GNU/Linux off the top of my head but I'm fairly sure its
something ridiculous like 32 links.

~~~
njd
Thanks for pointing that out. Instead of the endless cascade, just cascade
once off of the first link. That way, there would never be more than two
references to resolve and you still get the temporal benefit.

> ln -s ../fluffy.jpg "fluffy [+cat].jpg"

> ln -s "fluffy [+cat].jpg" "fluffy [+yarn].jpg"

> ln -s "fluffy [+cat].jpg" "fluffy [-yarn].jpg"

------
kijin
The screenshots look nice, but they only contain a couple dozen files and a
similarly small number of tags.

I've got a good fraction of a million files on my home partition, and I'm
likely to end up with hundreds if not thousands of tags if I were to go about
organizing them. I'd like to know whether this tool will work on such a scale
without inconvenience. Too many similar tools fall apart once you hit a
hundred tags or so, not to mention a few hundred thousand entries. It's a lot
of wasted effort to start using a tool like that, only to realize that it
doesn't scale.

------
leni536
I think git-annex's metadata[1] support and metadata driven views[2] aim to
solve a similar problem.

[1] [https://git-annex.branchable.com/metadata/](https://git-
annex.branchable.com/metadata/) [2] [https://git-
annex.branchable.com/tips/metadata_driven_views/](https://git-
annex.branchable.com/tips/metadata_driven_views/)

~~~
fiatjaf
I wish there was a git-annex metadata browser and editor like this.

------
d0100
I've always wondered what would happen to an OSS project if someone sat down
and implemented all the PRO features and PR to git.

~~~
rando832
You expect to type PRO and have people know what your talking about? I
certainly don't, and unless you are talking about the wikipedia entry
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRO_%28category_theory%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRO_%28category_theory%29),
which it doesn't sound like, I don't think it's reasonable.

~~~
raquo
They mean the Pro version, as in – the paid version of the app. I think only
the free features are open sourced.

------
type0
As tags end up in file names how can you do backups with this? rsync creates
duplicates when tags are added since filename changes

~~~
gregwebs
The pro version offers saving tag in metadata instead
[https://www.tagspaces.org/products/pro/#tagSidecarSaving](https://www.tagspaces.org/products/pro/#tagSidecarSaving)

But it won't recognize if an external tool moves the file

~~~
mistermann
I'd much rather it stored it in a central "database" of some sort, but I'd
also want automatic detection of renamed files.

~~~
glennsmith88
That is what we do at
[http://www.cloudfindhq.com](http://www.cloudfindhq.com), picking up the
renamed file issue from the underlying Cloudstores was quite a challenge to
implement. A lot of subtleties to get right with not always helpful API
endpoints.

------
raquo
I assume only the regular version (non-Pro) is open source? If not, I'm really
curious how this works together with Pro version being paid.

~~~
th0br0
Looks like the license is AGPL so that nobody can clone them and do a similar
'pro' version.

Now, when you contribute to their OS project you need to sign a CLA which
pretty much consists of the usual 'all your base are belong to us'.

    
    
      You hereby grant to the Owner and to recipients of software distributed by the  Owner a perpetual, worldwide, non- exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable  copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display,  publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute Your Contributions and such derivative  works.

~~~
icebraining
_Looks like the license is AGPL so that nobody can clone them and do a similar
'pro' version._

Well, they can, they just have to ship the source to the buyers (and no, they
don't need to give it to non-buyers).

~~~
cben
But that source would also be AGPL and a buyer could share it with the rest of
the world.

But the odds of someone except the original developer wanting to work on a
paid version are low anyway.

------
markatkinson
Funny how sometimes you think "You know 'x' would be really useful, I would
use an application like 'x'." Then the next day its the top link on Hacker
News.

~~~
lucb1e
Or worse: "You know 'x' would be really useful, maybe I should build that."
Then you decide to let it rest for a few days (most of my projects have been
bouncing around in my head for a while before I have a good idea of what
product I want to make) and the next day it's on Hacker News.

Tagging is an old one for me. I settled on using tmsu but never actually got
around to use it. The photo organizer sounds like something I should be doing,
I start losing more and more photos. Problem is, Tagspaces either renames my
files or leaves hidden directories in every directory (what is this, OS X?).
Guess I might give tmsu another spin or, if that isn't satisfactory, write my
own after all.

------
royka118
Sounds like these guys [https://cloudfindhq.com/](https://cloudfindhq.com/)
expect they don't modify the file name

~~~
glennsmith88
Yeh, come and check out Cloudfind - we have just launched a new product that
integrates nicely into Dropbox and Google Drive - free to use for personal and
small team use. Lets you organise the tags into logical groupings to help you
organise your stuff.

~~~
roryisok
I notice the free version only allows 100 tags. I'd hardly have more than that
but it might be a limitation some people should be aware of

------
mxuribe
I actually would not mind having a simple database (that is cross platform
like SQLite) which would act as a separation layer from the files (and store
any tags, and minimal meta data)...only because I'm not crazy about any system
changing file names on me. Call me old fashioned ;-) That being said, the UI -
especially the editor - looks pretty neat.

I've seen comments for git-annex, but the lack of a neat gui/browser gives me
pause. Can anyone recommend an alternative to Tagspaces but which does not
alter filenames...and is of course cross platform (because i work with a
couple different machines every day), and is open source?

------
ClayFerguson
Tagging the filesystem and making a personal-cloud manager is very similar to
one of the directions I'm headed in with meta64.com, which is built on the
Java JCR, Lucene, Solr Cloud, Polymer, and is a sort of tree-structured
repository that does lots of these types of shenanigans.

------
mikevin
I have to say that it would be nice if the sidecar functionality was available
in the free edition. I don't want to try the free version because I'm unsure
of the effects that renaming will have. I'd be afraid of losing potential
customers because they didn't know about the renaming. I will still buy the
Pro version because I definitely need somethings like this and this looks like
a nice project to support.

p.s. is it possible to upgrade to Pro Unlimited if I like the Pro version?

------
daemonk
Most people aren't very diligent with naming their tags and organizing their
data. I am definitely guilty of this.

Are there any data management services out there that can use some kind of
semantic understanding to let you search through your own data? In essence,
"google" my own personal collection of data? For example, I might make quick
notes throughout the day and tag them with vague or maybe even incorrectly
spelled tags. Can I type something like "note I wrote yesterday about dogs"
and get correct results?

~~~
WorldMaker
Cortana / Siri / Google Assistant?

Seems to be a place all of them are trying to head, with varying degrees of
success thus far.

------
dj-wonk
I'd be more interested if this integrated with macOS tags.

~~~
ilian
TagSpaces aims to be a cross-platform tool, implementing such a feature will
be very restrictive for the use cases supported by the application.

~~~
dj-wonk
When I hear "X is impossible", I like to reframe the issue. Instead of making
a statement, why not ask a question such as "What would make X possible?" I
write more about this at [https://medium.com/@xpe/reframing-the-
impossible-42c588abcba...](https://medium.com/@xpe/reframing-the-
impossible-42c588abcba7)

------
Nelai
Is there a trial for the pro-version. In case somebody wants to test the
sidecar functionality, full text search capabilities...

------
vongomben
I've been using TagSpaces for a while (mostly ass desktop note taking app).
Nice project, but went back to Tomboy for two main UX reasons:

* no ctrl+n for new file

* no auto-saving of the file itself (I have to say last version I've been using was 2.1.1. I've downloaded / updated the software on my computer and will check this soon (apparently is missing)

------
kmcb
I have been looking for something similar to this that would allow me to also
share the files with other people using a group permission structure per file.
Has anyone seen something like that?

------
gamesbrainiac
Am I the only one who read this as TabsvsSpaces?

------
stephenr
So, for someone using only macOS/Mac OS X, how is this an improvement over the
built-in file tagging?

~~~
ilian
Other operating systems don't posses the easiness of the tagging system build
in OS X. The issue we see in the OS X tags is that they are locked to a
particular operating system. Ones you copy/move your files on some other other
platforms or the cloud you are mostly loosing the tagging information. BTW,
TagSpaces is not only for tagging, we use it for example as a Evernote
alternative.

~~~
stephenr
So, given that my question was:

> for someone using only macOS/Mac OS X, how is this an improvement over the
> built-in file tagging?

The answer is "it doesn't"?

I'm not saying it doesn't have a market, I'm trying to understand if it offers
anything above the OS included functionality for someone purely in the Apple
ecosystem.

------
jasonkostempski
The title I got in my RSS reader was "File manager supports over 100 file
extensions(Open source)." I was expecting a recent discovery of something from
like the 60's being the earliest known document using the term "Open source."
Shining example of the over-overloading of terms in tech.

------
galfarragem
Why organize files by massive manual tagging if you can organize them with a
simple system based on conventions [1]?

You can predict where something is most of times.

[1] [https://github.com/galfarragem/hamster-
gtd](https://github.com/galfarragem/hamster-gtd)

~~~
ilian
In order to organize files with tagspaces you could use tags, but is not
mandatory. You can still relay your local file and folder structure, which is
displayed in the application. In a way you can use any conventions with
TagSpaces, without a bounding to any file sync cloud service or Evernote.

------
roryisok
I've been wanting to build something like this for about a decade but never
bothered, and this looks so much better than anything I could have built.
Thanks Ilian!

------
db48x
That must be the slowest webpage I've ever used.

From the comments it sounds like I'd prefer the way git annex handles tagging.

~~~
knotty66
Really fast for me, here in the UK.

~~~
db48x
It's still loading...

~~~
db48x
Hah, it's sitting there waiting for several fonts to load from
fonts.googleapis.com, but I have my browser set to ignore any font choices set
by webpages. Apparently it's just going to leave the dom empty forever.

~~~
lucb1e
I have fonts.googleapis blocked in my hosts file, loads fine for me in
Firefox. Maybe it's your browser? Or the method of blocking?

~~~
db48x
I checked that last night, actually. A traceroute showed packets winding their
way through comcast's network, hitting google's, and then vanishing. Whatever
the problem was, it's been fixed. The moral of the story is to never rely on
third-party assets, especially for synchronous stylesheets that block the
browser from even parsing the rest of the page.

