
Rising California Gasoline Prices Highlight Growing Divide in U.S. - spking
https://www.wsj.com/articles/rising-california-gasoline-prices-highlight-growing-divide-in-u-s-11571832001?mod=rsswn
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burfog
"The price at the pump was more than $4 a gallon in Vista, Calif., when Scott
Hissem recently embarked on a trip to Texas [...] Gasoline cost just $2 and
change. The gap has Mr. Hissem considering a move to escape California's high
cost of living."

Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting
to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the
connection between policy and the cost of living.

~~~
IvyMike
> Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start
> voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the
> connection between policy and the cost of living.

Is that actually true? They are a self selecting group, not a random sample,
and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a
liberal state.

The one piece of data I've seen is that had native Texans been the only ones
to vote, Beto would have won.
[https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-t...](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-
texans-voted-for-native-texan-beto-o-rourke-transplants-went-for-ted-cruz-
exit-poll-shows/)

~~~
mmmeff
I lived in LA for a while and knew a few very liberal friends that moved to
Austin because of the cheaper cost of living, for what its worth.

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FreedomToCreate
As bad as it is, the positive is that alternate methods of transportation are
boosted when gas prices go up. The current trend of buying large SUVs to
commute an hour or two a day is supported by the cost of gas. Gas prices go
up, cars get smaller and public transport gets a boost, congestion goes down,
air quality improves and people do more things in there local community.

I do understand that the negative effects on people who rely on long commutes
to work, but difficult positions can spur positive change if people work
together.

~~~
burfog
This is all about consequences of regulation.

People buy large SUVs because the fuel efficiency law encourages it.
Calculations for CAFE involve the vehicle mass and the area of pavement
surrounded by the tires. Large SUVs have an advantage in the calculation.

People commute an hour or two because of laws that make it unreasonable to
move closer to work. Taxes would reset, fees would need to be paid, and so
many people would get their cut of the sale.

~~~
Johnny555
Regulation is one way to force people to drive more fuel efficient cars
(because the less efficient cars will either be priced out of reach or be
unavailable completely). But so are fuel taxes as the parent poster pointed
out -- make gas more expensive and people will demand more fuel efficiency. I
think both have a place -- make less efficient cars more expensive to buy
_and_ operate.

It's not just zoning laws that keep people from living close to work, some
people just don't want to live in a city so they are happy to commute for an
hour if it means they can have a 2400 sq foot house on an acre of land. No
amount of zoning can provide large numbers of big single family houses on
large lots that are also close to large urban work centers.

Though I just wish those people would stop complaining when cites repurpose
streets for transit and bikes for those that _do_ live closer to work and can
more easily use alternative transit.

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jwr
The elephant in the room, which nobody seems to mention, is that the real
price after adjusting for externalities like the climate crisis (largely
caused by the burning of fossil fuels), should probably be closer to
$10/gallon or even more.

I find it strange that we still have articles which discuss the new
interesting arrangements for chairs on the deck of our Titanic.

~~~
chrisco255
The climate crisis being what exactly, other than hyperbole? It's 2019. Not
one month this year has been higher than the highs of 1998. Over 30 years have
passed since the global warming hypothesis was presented and we have yet to
see runaway global warming. Northern hemisphere snowfall totals are more than
one standard deviation above average, presently.

[https://globalcryospherewatch.org/satellites/trackers.html](https://globalcryospherewatch.org/satellites/trackers.html)

There was exceptional amounts of snow in 2018 across the northern hemisphere:
[https://m.phys.org/news/2018-03-exceptionally-large-
amount-w...](https://m.phys.org/news/2018-03-exceptionally-large-amount-
winter-northern.html)

We are on track for similar if not higher levels of snow this year.

That being said, you should worry more about cold temperatures than warm
temperatures, because cold temps destroy crops.

~~~
pintxo
Guess you did not read the linked articles?

From the second (the first is purely about the technical measurements):

> „... Examination over a longer period (1980-2017) shows that the total
> amount of snow in all winter periods has decreased on average.

The ice cover on the Arctic Ocean has grown thinner and the amount and expanse
of perennial ice has decreased. [...] Extreme weather phenomena including
winters in which snowfall is quite heavy, and periods of little snow, will
increase in the future.

The Arctic area is warming at twice the speed as the rest of the world, and
the impact of climate change can already be seen in the Arctic regions. And
the changes are affecting the rest of the Earth.

~~~
chrisco255
I guess you didn't hear about the little ice age scare in the 70s?

Take Leonard Nimoy's word for it:
[https://youtu.be/mOC7ePWCHGk](https://youtu.be/mOC7ePWCHGk) hard to argue
with Spock.

It's not surprising that ice loss occurred over the last few decades. Is this
unprecedented in geological history? Not at all. The medieval warm period from
950-1250 was as warm as today if not warmer. It was followed by a little ice
age that lasted 600 years, followed by the modern warming period which began
in 1850, well before internal combustion engines took off.

The loss or gain of ice in the Arctic occurs regularly. It's been happening in
spurts since the end of the last glacial period 20,000 years ago. There are
natural cycles like the Atlantic Multi-decadal Oscillation that have a huge
influence on Arctic ice extent.

~~~
pintxo
According to [1] we are already way beyond the temperatures of the medieval
warm period. So not sure your argument holds. Also, apparently this effect was
localized, not global.

I guess there is no one disputing that Earth climate is driven by multiple
sources, so that’s not the point. The question is: are we driving climate
change to a large enough extend that we could have an impact on it by changing
what we do? And the consensus seems to be a strong yes. The other question is:
is climate change a net negative? And again the answer seems to be a strong
yes.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period)

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drak0n1c
Newsom tweeting in outrage at rising gas prices soon after signing gas tax
hikes is interesting. Aren’t higher gas prices good for the environment and
one of the reasons voters wanted him?

~~~
saboot
No, the outrage is that accounting for gas taxes, the price of gas is still
higher than what market analysis would predict. Newsom is studying why (eg
price coordination).

Most voters supportive of the gas tax, including myself, voted because the
revenue is improving road infrastructure and commutes.

Until electric cars are available for low income people I don't really care
much for statements implying we should actively looking to increase gas prices
for the sake of doing so.

~~~
Gibbon1
California has programs provide grants and financing for low income drivers to
by new and used EV's (and hybrids as well).

[https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/](https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/)

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millstone
An interesting idea is a “gas ratchet”: set taxes as a dynamic floor so that
the price of gas never decreases. This would increase predictability for
businesses, and lead to economic pressures to switch off of fossil fuels.

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hellisothers
Non-paywall version via MSN: [https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/rising-
california-ga...](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/rising-california-
gasoline-prices-highlight-growing-divide-in-us/ar-AAJdUPz?ocid=spartanntp)

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senectus1
the current price of petrol in the use equates to about .98c a liter
Australian.

We currently pay about $1.46 a liter....

so cry me a river US... you get it cheap.

~~~
Symbiote
Since this story is primarily interesting to Americans, the price abroad per
gallon is more helpful.

In Germany, the average price is $5.87/gal.

The price varies in the EU, but mostly reflecting average income. No one is
surprised that it's more expensive in Finland ($6.38) and cheaper in Romania
($4.32).

[https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices/](https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices/)

~~~
xyzzyz
Worth noting that with what people make in Romania on average, $4.5 feels like
$10-$15/gallon would feel like to Americans.

~~~
cnst
I'd imagine most folks in Romania can also easily get away with never owning a
car in their lifetime, without any perceivable negative connotations to their
quality of life, whilst it's not really a possibility in most parts of the US,
especially in California.

~~~
Tade0
I paid around $4.79 the other day in Poland - a country which is experiencing
rapid growth in car ownership, because public transportation outside of cities
has been all but dismantled.

All in all I think it wouldn't hurt to start driving either smaller or more
fuel-efficient vehicles.

~~~
xyzzyz
Poland is experiencing rapid growth in car ownership because people are
getting wealthier and can afford cars and gas, while public transportation
outside of dense cities is slow, inconvenient, expensive, or all of the above.

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cryptozeus
Just filled up gas in San Mateo $4.39/ gl

~~~
masonic
If people are downvoting you because they think you exaggerate, they should
first go to an objective source like Gasbuddy.com.

