
Amazon Camper Force - brownbat
http://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/camperforce/
======
red_admiral
This is how a lot of the world used to work (ok, minus the wi-fi, and the
accomodation was even more basic). Unskilled laborers and anyone else out of a
job would move around, taking jobs as and when they were needed and often
living "on site" for a while. Much of the work was seasonal such as
harvesting, although some places like dockyards and coal mines you could turn
up and work by the day or week most of the year. No such thing as benefits if
you fell ill, of course.

Here's an article about hops pickers in England [1] and the related Wikipedia
article [2]. I also recommend Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath".

[1] [https://mashable.com/2017/06/03/hop-
pickers](https://mashable.com/2017/06/03/hop-pickers) [2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopper_hut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopper_hut)

~~~
linkmotif
Should we consider this, then, a regression?

~~~
blobbers
Acknowledging the way the world works and trying to improve conditions without
addressing the root cause is sometimes one of the best possible outcomes.

When a doctor helps you with the arm you broke because a car hit your bicycle,
a doctor doesn't try to improve road conditions for cyclists.

~~~
craftyguy
That's a bad analogy. Doctors very much participate in trying to prevent
injuries and chronic disease through educating and planning with patients, and
lobbying government (ASCRS, AMA, etc).

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tristanj
I haven't heard of this program before so I did some digging. According to
this source [1], Amazon Camper Force seeks to hire people who live in Campers
(aka RVs) as item pickers for Amazon warehouses.

 _" As part of the CamperForce program, Amazon hires workers on temporary
contracts from early October until December 23, paying them near minimum wage
while covering the expenses of staying in an RV park._

 _The company targets older workers, who they believe have a stronger work
ethic than their younger counterparts._ "

The program has been around since 2008. Apparently Amazon does not work them
as hard as regular hires, as they only need to hit 70% output (in items per
hour) of year-round employees.

[1]
[https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/11/06/camp-n06.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/11/06/camp-n06.html)

~~~
Overtonwindow
Drove past a parking lot full of RVs next to the Amazon facility in
Campbellsville Kentucky. Quite startling to see.

~~~
bardel
I worked at that facility up until last year. It's one of the oldest Amazon
buildings around.

~~~
Overtonwindow
Half my family is from right there. Amazon and Walmart. The modern day fruit
of the loom factory.

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benatkin
Health insurance after 90 days, for a program that runs from early October
through late December. Returning campers welcome. I wonder if returning
campers get to count last year's 90 days.

It kinda feels like Amazon is bragging about not paying health insurance, just
like they list frugality as one of their company values, and are looking for a
place with a low cost of living and tax breaks for HQ2.

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nngrey
There is a book out about this phenomenon. More info here:
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/02/nomadl...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/02/nomadland-
living-in-cars-working-amazon)

~~~
aphextron
So it seems Hobo'ing has finally made a comeback in the US. If this isn't a
sign of the times, I'm not sure what is.

~~~
josephjrobison
The US is hitting new record highs in median income:
[https://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2018/08/july-2018...](https://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2018/08/july-2018-median-
household-income.html?m=1)

~~~
jarcane
Medians are a meaningless statistic in a country with such a massive gap
between top and bottom earners.

The ratio of income bracket to income growth is literally a hockey stick
graph: [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2017/8/8/16112368/pi...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2017/8/8/16112368/piketty-saez-zucman-income-growth-inequality-
stagnation-chart)

~~~
tormeh
It's meaningful if you don't care about the top and bottom earners.

~~~
jarcane
Not if there's no actual data points left in the middle.

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jrockway
Kind of low on details, but I guess they're looking for warehouse workers that
can drive somewhere, live in an RV for a few months, and then get another job?

I am not sure who can do that that is also willing to work 12 hours a day
lifting boxes.

~~~
pmorici
Folks who retired at 50 and want to earn a little extra cash occasionally? I
doubt most Amazon packages are that heavy.

~~~
jrockway
It says the minimum workday is 10 hours. Who would retire at 50 and want to
spend 2 months intensely working 10 hours a day? You obviously had the work
ethic and happened to find the right line of work to both afford an RV and
retire at 50... why go back to what is the most entry level of entry level
jobs to get a little extra cash? What would you use the cash for? $13/hour *
60 hours a week * 8 weeks = $6240 * 30% tax = $4368 for your entire duration
(plus free utilities). I don't see how that's worth it. That's less than two
weeks of an 8-hour-a-day job for pretty much any professional in New York
City, and they get a 401k, insurance, etc.

I'm not sure I'll retire at 50, but I am sure I won't be working 60 hour weeks
out of a van. Unless something changes dramatically, of course. You never
know.

~~~
pmorici
I think there are two types of folks. In one camp you have those that retire
early because they are wealthy and buy an RV to travel. On the other hand
there is a segment that is normal folks who are sick of the rat race or got
laid off and have enough money to retire if they live extremely frugally and
living in an RV is a way to save money and forgo the expense of a house.

I imagine this Amazon thing is attractive to the latter type of situation.

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RyanShook
Hourly wages listed are $11-$13. Is the website just out of date?

~~~
benatkin
My guess is that it's accurate, and that Amazon still considers it to fall
within their promise of a $15 minimum wage, just like the federal government
and some states allow restaurants to pay less than minimum wage to servers who
get tips – only in AMZ's case instead of tips it's RV parking.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage)

~~~
gonesilent
Wifi and power extra, shit pump and water free for prime members.

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brianbreslin
I thought their wages were all supposed to be at $15/hr. I see several $11/12
listings on that page.

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MIKarlsen
I'm not from the US, so I don't know about that "RV Culture". But if I'm
cynical, it sounds like Amazon is looking for people who can't afford to say
no (which is why they live in a camper van for starters...), which is
unethical in my opinion.

If I'm being optimistic, they're engaging with a community, who actually loves
the RV lifestyle, and wants opportunities like this for limited periods, so
they can save up for their "next adventure". I just don't know how working 12
hour shifts while living in an RV is called an "adventure". But hey, that's
marketing these days - everything should be (over)sold.

My gutfeeling tells me, that the first is more likely to be the case than the
latter, which is just another bad mark in the book for Amazon...

~~~
Mediterraneo10
> I'm not from the US, so I don't know about that "RV Culture". But if I'm
> cynical, it sounds like Amazon is looking for people who can't afford to say
> no.

Plenty of people outside the US, too, live in caravans for a considerable
portion of the year. Go to southern Morocco or Western Sahara in the winter,
and you will see many hundreds of camping cars owned by German, French, and
Italian pensioners who want to spend the cold months in warm, sunny weather.
If there actually were seasonal work down there, I would totally expect some
portion of them to take it, since some people do feel the need to make some
extra money or to do something "productive" during the day.

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yardie
When we were sailing there were times where we were hunkered down at a marina
or anchorage. Most of our neighbors were white hairs and they enjoyed the
independence. These boats were kitted out to go months between provisionings.

Anyway, jobs like these seem dystopian, but unless your career was already
highly mobile it’s very hard to make a consisten income and be a nomad.
Corporate remote jobs are extremely rare and the few that exist are being
pushed towards expensive city coworking spaces.

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throwaway13337
Not just packers. Airport/airline employees also can live in RVs nearby.

[https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106970...](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106970003)

It seems like in both cases, they profile divorced old men who have economic
woes as a result.

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Havoc
Strikes me as a little bit dystopian frankly.

~~~
giobox
Me too. My first thought was that the title used on HN was some kind of joke,
but nope, there really is a staffing initiative called “Amazon Camper Force”
at Amazon.

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rangersanger
Having a semi-itinerate workforce seems like an extremely effective way to
avoid any risk of labor activities.

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stevespang
I don't believe these temp workers qualify for the $15 per hour wages. It's
interesting how the Amazon web page puts such a "cheerful spin" on this
slumlording . . . "They also list witholding a part of their wages until
they've successfully completed the season"

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fit2rule
Whoa, this has Snow Crash all over it. What's next, some Gillionaire is gonna
tie a few ships together out in the plastic gyre?

I mean, doesn't the dystopian nature of having a mobile workforce like this,
you know .. with their entire lifestyle hinged on the warehouse-de-jeur ethos
.. isn't this just really not kind of creepy?

Maybe its me, but I'm seeing this as the sprawl, sporing.

~~~
anoncoward111
Warehouse-du-jour, and from the looks of it, it seems that laborers are
willing to accept these conditions, which sound pretty average to me.

