
Kiteboat: sailing innovation on SF Bay - 205guy
http://project.kiteboat.com/
======
sailfast
Once again my two favorite things on the HN front page - technology and
sailing.

The combination of kite power and a foiling hull make for crazy speed. 31
knots on a relatively small craft, in 10-18 knots of breeze is incredible, and
must be a huge rush to drive.

As a racing sailor, I'd be interested to see how these boats could compete in
a fleet race setting, or even a match race / America's Cup style setting. The
more of these types of craft I see, the more I am hoping my kids will be
sailing cheap foiling kite dinghies at 20 knots in the next 5 years. Exciting
stuff!

~~~
205guy
Submitter here: I have the same excitement (though not a sailor myself, just a
spectator). I actually wondered about a kite pulling a boat a while ago
myself, and now someone goes and does it.

I was surprised how fast the foiling technology has been spreading after the
America's Cup. There were the foiling moths (small sailboats) before, but now
it seems to be more popular. Then recently, I saw something about kiteboarders
fitting a foil to their boards and gaining speed. Now this.

One disadvantage of the kiteboat is that it requires a bigger sail and thus
longer lines. That will increase the risks of entanglement in a race. And with
80-meter lines, this prototype already has to worry about bridge clearance on
the bay.

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JPKab
I'm a longtime sailor and did a bit of kiteboarding back in the early 2000's
when the kites were a lot less safe than they are now (they automatically dive
now when the rider loses control, which I would have loved instead of being
dragged onto a beach and into a fisherman's truck)

The amount of power generated is insane, but I would love to see a computer
controlled kite instead of relying on a human to keep the kite moving in a way
to maximize power. The margin of error can be small there.

------
Jemaclus
This looks nice, but I really don't like websites that make me click around to
find out what exactly they are.

Is Kiteboat a company that sells... kite.. boats?

Or is it a technology?

Why is on HN?

Is a kiteboat a boat that's sailed by kite? or is it just a cute name?

Are you selling something or just showing off your cool boats?

What's the goal?

Why am I looking at your site?

Who are you?

What's the Log In link for?

What would I be logging in to do?

I get none of that from the main page, and none of the links in Navigate look
anything like "About" or "FAQ" or "Who We Are" or "What is Kiteboat?". All I
see are videos (which I rarely watch for various reasons, but even so, few
look like they explain what the Kiteboat Project is), News (why should I care
if I don't know what Kiteboat is?), Advantages (compared to what?), Tests
(???)..

I wound up clicking around and got answers to some of those questions, but for
someone who just lands on your homepage, that's a lot of work to expect them
to do. Ideally, you would have something front and center that says "Kiteboat:
A Better Way to Sail" and then a button that says "Find Out More" or
something. Because otherwise I'm either just gonna navigate away, or start
clicking random links til I find something that explains WTF I'm looking at.

~~~
205guy
Why so grumpy? And why assume it's my website? I thought people could post
anything on HN, not just their own stuff.

I've been a commenter on HN, but this is my first submission to get any
traction at all. I thought it was self explanatory, had a descriptive title
(keyword: innovation), and gave a few links at the bottom for those that want
more than pretty pictures (try videos).

You know, I like websites to be clearer as well, I can't stand products that
don't show me what it is and how it looks (screenshots). But I thought this
was pretty straightforward:

It's a boat powered by a kite (see big pictures). It's existing tech applied
in new ways, but still requiring lots of innovation, prototyping, and testing
(notice the experimental nature of the craft). It's on HN because I like
sailing, the Bay Area, and people developing innovative things. I am not
affiliated in any way with the people or the website.

Do you write a comment like this for every submission on HN?

~~~
Jemaclus
I'm not grumpy at all! Just wondering, because as someone who is not an avid
boater, I have no idea what a Kiteboat is, and it was not exactly self-
explanatory. I did have to click around to find out the answers to my
questions. I'm just pointing out that the website could be better, and that as
a non-boater, I was confused.

As a techie and HN user, I'm interested in technology and websites, and one
thing I want is for websites to appropriately convey their messages. This one
simply doesn't convey necessary information to people who don't know what
they're looking at. Is that a problem? Not necessarily. It depends on the
audience.

Also note that at the end I offered a solution to the problems I mentioned. If
I were grumpy and a jerk, I would have simply complained. It just so happens
that I'm trying to help.

Thanks for the downvotes though! Carry on.

~~~
205guy
Twas not me who downvoted you. I did not even know before today that HN won't
let me downvote any comment on my own submission (unless you need more points
for that too). Only the upvote arrows appear for me here.

You may not be grumpy, but having many short questions with a sarcastic tone
("cute") or negative slant comes across very aggressively. I realize the
website may not provide all the answers to someone who has no knowledge of the
domain (sailing), but I think it provided enough visuals and information for
someone approaching it with an inquisitive mind.

------
guiporto
Hacker and kiteboarder here

This kiteboat is very impressive and powerful. The kite area is 25sqm and you
have a lot of powerful wind in SF. I kiteboard in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil -
where the wind is not so strong and my kite area is only 11sqm.

I wonder what were the decisions involved on choosing 80m flying lines
(regular kiteboard is 30m) and only 4 lines instead of 5 lines (safer and
easier to relaunch)

~~~
hamiltonkibbe
Me too. I'm guessing that 80m is for more altitude and better wind. There are
plenty of safe 4-line systems, you can always flag the kite on a single front
line. Maybe they're Cabrinha fans? I wonder how this would do with a 25m foil
kite instead of an LEI. 11m is my go-to most of the summer here in Boston

------
binarymax
There is a good New Yorker profile piece that came out May 2013, that gives an
interesting account of this innovation and potentially using it to harness
energy. Made for nice coffee reading.

[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/05/20/130520fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/05/20/130520fa_fact_specter)

------
VLM
Its easy to take a sail above the speed of the wind. Airfoil effect. Did it
all the time on iceboats as a kid (sailboat on ice skates, basically). Not
sure how or if that applies to a kite. A sail (at least a properly designed
one) is not a parachute... it pushes against the keel to go faster than the
wind.

I would imagine performance in calm to variable gusty conditions is
interesting. Could of course pop a very small mast and sail with that. I've
been stuck in the middle of nowhere and no breeze with a conventional sail, so
I suppose this isn't any worse other than dunking the kite and tangling the
wires.

For long distance sailing I was always hyper paranoid about bigger ships (duh)
and a fairly obvious safety feature that wasn't discussed (that I saw) is
lifting a simple tinfoil and styrofoam retroreflector up with the kite. I
wonder that no one sells small/tiny kites with retroreflectors to cruising
sailors.

------
ohwp
Reminds me of SkySails:
[http://www.skysails.info/english/](http://www.skysails.info/english/),
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails)

They claim a 10-35% fuel reduction.

------
fretless
This is pretty cool but lower-tech than i was expecting when i saw the link. I
went by their loft a few times in 2008 or 2009 but haven't followed them
since. I think Makani is a sister company.

[http://www.google.com/makani/about/](http://www.google.com/makani/about/)

There's also other companies working on e.g. computerized winches that can
react in hunderdths of a second, if I remember correctly

[http://inhabitat.com/power-your-boat-with-kites-wind-
power-b...](http://inhabitat.com/power-your-boat-with-kites-wind-power-by-
kiteship/)

------
junto
Cool idea. Love the speed.

Back of the napkin calculations with an average 25 knot speed would mean you
could cross the Atlantic from Ireland to Newfoundland [1] in about 3 days.

I wonder when Richard Branson will attempt the crossing?

[https://www.google.com/search?q=ireland+to+newfoundland+mile...](https://www.google.com/search?q=ireland+to+newfoundland+miles)

