
I tried to pay with Bitcoin at a Mexico City bar. It didn’t go well - headalgorithm
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/08/i-tried-to-pay-with-bitcoin-at-a-mexico-city-bar-it-didnt-go-well/
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nabdab
I had the exact same experience at the bitcoin only cafe paralelni Polis in
Prauge. Only since they refuse to take cash I was left in a pinch. One of the
people who worked there offered to spot me.... only to then adjust his balance
which was registered on a piece of paper denoted in czk. Because as he said
“the rate fluctuates so much and it takes so long to transfer that most who
here just do one large transfer at some point and then run off the tab”.

Af far as proving that a bitcoin only cafe is viable it’s nothing but a PR
scam. And I truly doubt that the people who’s balance was on that sheet
actually went to the trouble of converting czk to bitcoin and then have the
staff jot down the current rate equivalent czk. Most likely they just pay
cash, and keep the facade up so media can’t claim their bitcoin only cafe is
failing at being bitcoin only.

Good coffee though, just not worth the hassle.

~~~
solotronics
I already had bitcoin (and lightning) on a few different wallets on my phone
and was able to pay at Paralelni Polis without any friction. It was easier
than using my card because I didn't have to sign anything, scan the QR code in
my hot wallet and it was done instantly. I think the step of getting Bitcoin
is usually where the friction happens because you usually have to wait for a
certain number of confirmed blocks (10 minute intervals) before you can send
bitcoin from a new wallet.

I wished they had Lightning set up at Paralelni because to me this is even
cooler for Point of Sale systems.

~~~
toolz
It doesn't matter the age of your wallet. Without waiting for other blocks to
write your payment you run the risk of a double pay leaving you with nothing.
e.g. I buy some coffee and then immediately send all funds from that wallet to
my other wallet. If the 2nd transaction gets recorded first, the first tx
won't happen.

~~~
heptathorp
This requires colluding with a miner, since nodes will reject a transaction
that spends the same output as a transaction they've already seen. For a small
payment like a coffee, it should be enough to check that the transaction has a
reasonable fee and wait 1 second to see that it has propagated through the
network.

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sharperguy
Making traditional payments at places like bars and coffee shops isn't really
a good usecase for bitcoin in today's environment. It can be fun for
enthusiasts, or useful for people who get paid in bitcoin and want an easier
way to spend it aside from just selling it. But for people paid in local
currency it just adds unnecessary complication.

There are some retail use-cases that make sense, mostly when whoever you're
buying from isn't well supported by the banking system. E.g. gambling sites,
marijuana dispensaries , VPN services, countries that don't have paypal or
VISA etc.

Other than that monetary sovereignty, censorship resistance, evading capital
controls and speculation are the name of the game.

~~~
panarky
Exactly.

It's like complaining about how difficult it is to get a cup of water to drink
from Niagara Falls.

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bitxbitxbitcoin
Arguably, these institutions aren't failing at the accepting Bitcoin part -
which is usually a seamless transaction as the restaurant/bar should accept
the money on zero confirmations. Rather, they're failing at the getting
bitcoin to people who don't already have it portion.

If this author had bitcoin ready to use on a mobile wallet with him already,
he wouldn't have run into the delayed-receipt-of-bitcoin issue with the
Bitcoin ATM - which is a well known and documented issue that won't be solved
until layer two solutions reliably allow for "zero confirmation" transactions.

What institutions like this should/could be doing is ringing up the total in
btc and including the restaurant's bitcoin address on the receipt and having
the first-time-bitcoin-using patron go to the Bitcoin ATM to pay cash to the
Bitcoin ATM and send the resulting bitcoin to the restaurant's wallet - that
way it doesn't matter if the transaction doesn't fully clear until later.

Typing it out, that sounds like a nightmare that might not be worth the 10%
discount (especially as the ATM is likely taking a cut, too) and is it really
paying in bitcoin at that point?

I guess this just shows my point that these places are meant for people who
already have bitcoin to come in and use.

~~~
microtherion
> If this author had bitcoin ready to use on a mobile wallet with him already,
> he wouldn't have run into the delayed-receipt-of-bitcoin issue with the
> Bitcoin ATM

But wouldn't he then have run into the confirmation delay of his transaction
with the bar, i.e. either he would have to stay behind after payment until
confirmations rolled in, or the bar would have had to eat the transaction
risk?

~~~
nybble41
The bar would have to eat the transaction risk, at least until the first
confirmation (typically under 30 minutes). On the other hand, if they accept
any other form of payment besides cash in hand then they are already accepting
that risk in the form of chargebacks—which can occur months after the
transaction.

The scenario in this article is akin to opening a brand-new account at your
local bank and then trying to spend from it with a debit card immediately
afterward. You're likely to incur an overdraft penalty, if the transaction
isn't simply declined. If you want to pay with Bitcoin you need to _have_
Bitcoin—confirmed—at the the time you make the payment. This is not a problem
in practice but it can trip up people experimenting with the system for the
first time.

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SOLAR_FIELDS
So what was the problem here? Taking a guess as to how the ATM servicer
responded to the author’s support ticket, it seems like the ATM servicer is
batching small transactions into a larger daily transaction on their end to
either cut down on fees or do some sort of rate arbitrage.

Bitcoin as a payment system is pretty much untenable these days due to fees
and confirmation times but why couldn’t the bar just accept a different
cryptocurrency that is in semi wide use, has near instantaneous confirmations,
and sub-cent fees? There are several of these but Ripple is the first one that
comes to mind.

~~~
corodra
If you own a business, one of the worst things to manage is all the different
payment systems you have to maintain. Both logistics and tax tracking. Theres
a very good reason why merchant service companies exist. They still suck, but
they're easier by orders of magnitude, of dealing with all the cards yourself.
I can only imagine how much more difficult it can be for companies outside the
states. Unless you're in Greece. Then you don't pay any taxes.

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makz
That’s why stuff like bitcoin cash and lightning network exist.

Also walking into a bitcoin bar without having some bitcoin already is like
walking without cash into a normal bar that only accepts cash but has an ATM
and it’s the only ATM in miles: plenty of things can go wrong.

------
majewsky
tl;dr:

\- The bar had a vending machine for Bitcoin which the author used to convert
Pesos into Bitcoin, but he couldn't pay his tab because it took two days for
the Bitcoin to show up in his wallet.

\- The bar's manager, a Bitcoin evangelist, could not really name any
practical usecase for Bitcoin.

