

Ask HN: Would forcing everyone to know their IQ reduce overall ignorance? - amichail

As an example, there are many low IQ people who do not think evolution is true.  But if they knew that their IQ is low in unequivocal terms, then they might reconsider their opposition to well-established scientific truths.<p>There would be no requirement to disclose your IQ (e.g., when applying for a job, participating in a debate, etc.).  But you can if you want to and it would be socially acceptable behavior to do so.<p>Moreover, if someone claims to have a certain IQ, then his/her IQ test results would be made public for anyone to check.
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tokenadult
Okay, let me try to explain why this interesting proposal wouldn't help much
with the problem that you mention.

1) First of all, it is very possible for high-IQ persons to have irrational
ideas. It happens all the time. Most high-IQ people don't notice when they are
being irrational.

<http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/stanovich1>

The author of the article I have just linked has gathered numerous examples in
a very readable and impeccably referenced book

[http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Tests-Miss-
Psycholog...](http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Tests-Miss-
Psychology/dp/030012385X)

that I have had occasion to recommend here on HN before. Read the book at your
earliest opportunity if you would like to understand all the barriers to human
understanding and rationality besides IQ. You'll learn a lot from the book,
particularly numerous cases of high-IQ persons (including members of high-IQ
societies) believing things that are false and irrational.

See also

[http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-
Effect/...](http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-
Effect/dp/0521741475/)

for additional forms of evidence showing that wisdom and correct beliefs are
distinct from IQ scores.

2) Second, no one knows his IQ exactly, so no one can pull rank this way. All
IQ tests have error of estimation, and no one brand of IQ test will yield the
same score for the same individual on every occasion, nor will two different
brands of IQ tests necessarily sort the same group of test-takers into the
same rank order. Terman (the developer of the first widely used IQ test in the
United States, the Stanford-Binet) noted that error of estimation in IQ scores
increases as IQ scores are above the mean:

"The reader should not lose sight of the fact that a test with even a high
reliability yields scores which have an appreciable probable error. The
probable error in terms of mental age is of course larger with older than with
young children because of the increasing spread of mental age as we go from
younger to older groups. For this reason it has been customary to express the
P.E. [probable error] of a Binet score in terms of I.Q., since the spread of
Binet I.Q.'s is fairly constant from age to age. However, when our correlation
arrays [between Form L and Form M] were plotted for separate age groups they
were all discovered to be distinctly fan-shaped. Figure 3 is typical of the
arrays at every age level.

"From Figure 3 [not shown here on HN, alas] it becomes clear that the probable
error of an I.Q. score is not a constant amount, but a variable which
increases as I.Q. increases. It has frequently been noted in the literature
that gifted subjects show greater I.Q. fluctuation than do clinical cases with
low I.Q.'s . . . . we now see that this trend is inherent in the I.Q.
technique itself, and might have been predicted on logical grounds." (Terman &
Merrill, 1937, p. 44)

3) Third, a slightly different point from point 2), anyone's IQ can change
over the course of life. (Pinneau 1961; Truch 1993, page 78; Howe 1998; Deary
2000, table 1.3). "Correlation studies of test scores provide actuarial data,
applicable to group predictions. . . . Studies of individuals, on the other
hand, may reveal large upward or downward shifts in test scores." (Anastasi &
Urbina 1997 p. 326).

4) The best way to put this method to the test, I suppose, is to ask you which
of my opinions you would accept if I could show that I have a higher IQ than
you have. How much of a difference would force you to credit my opinions with
being true? If the difference in IQ score were slight, would you propose that
we each be retested?

5) Anyway, the suggestion, although interesting, is illogical, because what
someone's IQ score is has no sure relationship with the truth of a person's
beliefs, the adequacy of the person's education on particular matters of fact,
or the person's willingness to reconsider opinions based on new evidence.

REFERENCES

Anastasi, Anne & Urbina, Susana (1997). Psychological Testing. Upper Saddle
River, NJ: Prentice Hall.

Deary, Ian J. (2000) Looking Down on Human Intelligence: From Psychometrics to
the Brain. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Howe, Michael J. A. (1998). Can IQ Change?. The Psychologist, February 1998
pages 69-72.

Pinneau, Samuel R. (1961). Changes in Intelligence Quotient Infancy to
Maturity: New Insights from the Berkeley Growth Study with Implications for
the Stanford-Binet Scales and Applications to Professional Practice. Boston:
Houghton Mifflin.

Terman, Lewis & Merrill, Maude (1937). Measuring Intelligence: A Guide to the
Administration of the New Revised Stanford-Binet Tests of Intelligence.
Boston: Houghton Mifflin.

Truch, Steve (1993). The WISC-III(R) Companion: A Guide to Interpretation and
Educational Intervention. Austin, TX: Pro-Ed.

~~~
amichail
From your first link:

"Nevertheless, recent progress in the cognitive science of rational thought
suggests that nothing – save for money – would stop us from constructing an
“RQ” test."

So extend IQ tests to cover more cognitive function such as rationality. I
don't see any problem in that.

~~~
tokenadult
That might be a good idea, especially for certain kinds of employment
screening, but that could still fail to solve the problem you had in mind in
your submission.

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mixmax
IQ only says something about a persons ability to solve a subset of the
problems encountered in life. For a scientist, mathematician, programmer and
statistician IQ is important. For a politician, leader, teacher and
psychologist things like social ability is much more important.

I know high IQ people that are easily tricked by charismatic people, indeed I
know a person that is a member of mensa that _has_ been tricked by a
charismatic leader.

IQ isn't strongly correlated to a persons ability to deal with life and all
it's strange and interesting facets.

~~~
amichail
If the charismatic people you mention are not of high IQ, people would stop
listening to them. In particular, they would probably not disclose their IQ
and people would become suspicious of what they say.

~~~
poppysan
This is a crazy idea, in my honest opinion. IQ tests are not perfect, not
should they be used to create a class-ist society ruled by high testers.

Paris Hilton has a 129 IQ and Andy Warhol's was 86. But who contributed more
to society?

 __source<http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=4327>

~~~
tokenadult
_Paris Hilton has a 129 IQ and Andy Warhol's was 86._

For the reasons mentioned in the first reply I posted, I categorically doubt
statements in the form of "Mr. Smith's IQ is X," favoring statements in the
form "Mr. Smith obtained a score of Y on IQ test brand Z on [date of
particular occasion]." But I agree with you in disagreeing with the submitted
proposal as unworkable.

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mediaman
I'll ignore the question of IQ as it relates to its relevance to anything.

Humans suffer from a phenomenon called cognitive dissonance. It means that if
facts contradict what they believe to be true, they will invent reasons why
the facts do not matter. In this case, people would claim that IQ is
irrelevant, or a tool of elitists, or in violation of God's will, or whatever.

Read The Psychology of Persuasion by Cialdini for some interesting material on
this (all backed up by solid studies).

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sundeep
_IQ in unequivocal terms ..._

Thats your problem right there ...

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johnnybgoode
This would _increase_ overall ignorance by forcibly assigning more importance
to IQ than it deserves.

(This is not to say IQ doesn't mean something.)

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Hates_
They don't believe the proof that evolution is true, so why would they believe
the proof that their IQ test was true.

There are probably plenty of people who don't believe in evolution that have a
high IQ. If you are indoctrinated at a young age into your religion, would
your high IQ still mean you would be able to think your way free?

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Tangurena
I disagree. People would learn very quickly that IQ has almost no correlation
with wealth, happiness, and any other measure of success. Making IQ a public
measurement like height, weight or skull bumps would show IQ to be useless as
a measure of anything.

~~~
mverwijs
... and that would be a Good Thing. Perhaps we should have public IQ
measurements then.

------
dsil
"The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there
is such a thing as being smart." -Kurt Vonnegut

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amayne
The MENSA newsletter used to have a section on Astrology. What more needs to
be said about the imperfect correlation of IQ and understanding how the real
world works?

~~~
vicaya
Dude, these guys love analogies like: Astrology is to fortune as IQ is to
achievement.

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branden
This might result in a caste system with numbers.

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quizbiz
I couldn't care less about my IQ number and I don't see why anyone else would.

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nickfox
only if it was stamped on their foreheads...

