
Dan Grigsby (Mobile Orchard) abandoning iPhone development - mtrichardson
http://www.mobileorchard.com/goodbye/
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tptacek
Telling: Grigsby can support himself independently by working in the iPhone
ecosystem, but to work in Android he may need a job at Google.

~~~
emmett
Even more telling, he's willing to abandon the iPhone platform _despite this_.

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tptacek
I like Dan (we worked together, him as a contractor, a long time ago). He's
first rate. But all _that_ tells me is that "Dan Grigsby feels very strongly
about something".

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pclark
For as long as the iPhone has millions of users willing to part with their
cash, there'll never be a shortage of developers.

~~~
viraptor
There are developers who care and developers who are in it for money. If
there's only money left and no joy in iPhone development (when people who
blogged, taught and promoted leave), the quality of apps in general might fall
down a lot.

~~~
codyrobbins
And then there are developers who aren’t ideologues—that simultaneously care
and are in it for money. You’re implying a false dichotomy.

~~~
mrkurt
Yeah, but the ones who care seem increasingly likely to get violated by Apple.
Thursday I was "someone who cared and was in it for the money", today I'm not.
:)

~~~
bombs
Maybe they don't care, maybe they just like to complain loudly?

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wallflower
This is very signficant because Dan Grigsby makes his living off of teaching
iPhone development courses.

Mobile Orchard, "the number-one ranked iPhone developer news site and
podcast", was one of the first resources that made me comfortable with iPhone
development, and I am sad to see Dan take this 'crossing the Rubicon' stance,
especially since it is such a shock (one of the leading podcasts for indie
iPhone devs).

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CitizenKane
I think Dan has an interesting point of view. Many startups are born through
exploiting interesting new technologies or opportunities within an ecosystem.
However, it does seem that Apple is making that increasingly hard to do. They
want to ensure that you're locked into their platform completely.

To me, the iPhone as a platform is becomingly potentially more dangerous to
make a living on. The application approval process has become increasingly
arbitrary and it would really suck to lose your means of living because Apple
decided they didn't like something you did.

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jasonlotito
It's down for me! And "It's not just me!" =)

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobileorchard.com%2Fgoodbye%2F&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=)

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100k
Apple is really hurting themselves with the developer community. I don't know
if it will matter (as pclark points out, they have millions of users willing
to part with cash) but it is really painful for me as a fan and a developer.

Glad I'm not invested in the iPhone platform...

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wallflower
"muchosmedia Just Letters

Application Description

So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, Goodbye!

Hi, My name is Just Letters and according to the mothership I'm no longer
worthy to be part of your mobile experience. The powers that be have yesterday
announced that only tools made by god himself shall be deemed worthy to build
iPhone apps.

I'm sorry, but I was built using one such evil programming language which goes
by the name of ActionScript. For this reason it is probable that I will soon
be banished from the walled garden of Eden. How tragic.

Maybe this platform has not been the right place for me anyway since clearly
the mothership believes games or my type provide no value whatsoever. And I
agree - this platform adds no value to me either so I'll pack my bags and
return to the wild wild web I came from. It was a lot cosier there anyway.

On that note, farewell mothership, and farewell to your products and services.
May the walled garden of Eden take good care of you."

<http://itunes.com/apps/justletters>

<http://www.muchosmedia.com/blog/?p=113>

~~~
stevenp
At least Apple doesn't pre-approve App Store descriptions! I commend them for
their openness! :)

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cpr
Sounds to me like he was on the verge of looking elsewhere, anyway.

So he gets to exit in a blaze of glory and also make his move.

Hmm.

~~~
malbiniak
This isn't about Dan, it's about principle. Dan just happens to be one of the
guys going to the other side of the line in the sand.

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davidedicillo
I'm sorry to hear about Dan, but I personally disagree about this crying about
Apple decisions. Nobody complains about Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo
restrictions as far as consolle games.

Also if you are a really creative person, you should be creative enough to
deal with restrictions. Good developers will pickup the obj-c (I know good AC3
developers who now develop just in obj-c).

It's against Apple's interest lower the entry bar to create their application,
because that would mean make life easier of those people who focus on develop
low quality apps. That doesn't mean that Flash developers are bad. But the
good ones won't have problems learning a new language.

~~~
randrews
> Nobody complains about Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo restrictions as far as
> console games.

People complained about Sony just last week killing Linux on the PS3, and have
complained about breaking firmware cracks on the PSP forever. There was a
minor amount of outrage when Nintendo broke some homebrew stuff with the new
DS.

But it's funny you should mention Microsoft. They let anyone publish things in
the Indie Games store for the Xbox, and distribute free dev tools. The
approval process is run entirely by the community, and solely exists to rate
apps (for violence, sexual content, etc), nothing gets rejected (within
reason).

And while I may not have spent more money on indie games than disc-based ones
(since I bought Dragon Age new) I bought my 360 originally in order to play
them. Lowering the barrier has worked out very well for Microsoft.

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ten7
If this goes against his principles, then why did he start the site in the
first place? It's hard for me to believe that the "only native apps" reason is
what pushed it passed the line of being principle. I smell something else...

~~~
mbrubeck
I can't speak for Grigsby, but many of us have been waiting to see whether
Apple would eventually loosen restrictions as the platform matured, or tighten
them further.

The new SDK agreement and other recent changes (like the removal of "adult"
content except for select companies like Playboy) make it clear which
direction Apple wants to move. Now we know their vision for the future is more
centrally controlled than the present, not less.

~~~
arvid
1984

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8>

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maxklein
I subscribed to his blog, and looking at the very low posting frequency, and
the fact that the blog in recent times offered very little insights or new
information, I thought he had quit a long time ago.

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khelloworld
While I understand his arguments, I fail to understand how not letting people
use x or y language hinders innovation. If they were blocking people from
using certain APIs (which they are btw, but its their platform -- they do what
they want), I can understand that you wouldn't be able to make so and so
products...but not letting people use .NET or actionscript, I dont see how it
really affects people's creativity.

~~~
jonknee
If you're most creative in .NET or ActionScript, not being able to use them
really affects your creativity.

~~~
khelloworld
If people are are that enthusiastic about developing for the iphone os, is
learning objective-c that big of a deal. Really?

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probablycorey
Objective-C is a just a tool, and most of the time it is overkill for creating
apps. If you are just creating a single app, you are right, it is not a big
deal. But if you do iPhone contracting for a living, and the money you make
correlates to how quick you can create an app, Objective-C isn't always the
best tool for the job.

Also Dan isn't saying "I'm too lazy to learn Objective-C", he is saying "I
don't want to be forced to use Objective-C"

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allertonm
If you are only able to make a profit by cutting corners on app development
time, perhaps that means you aren't charging enough for your services.

At least one benefit of this change is that it levels the playing field for
developers such as yourself - all of your competition is in the same position
as you are, and you can't be undercut by someone who is building their apps
using a Flash compiler or whatever.

~~~
ibsulon
If you need Lisp, Python, or Ruby to increase your productivity to cut corners
on web development times, perhaps that means you're not charging enough for
your services.

Java or bust! Level the playing field.

~~~
allertonm
Yes, just completely change the context from one where the code runs at the
user's expense, to one where it runs at the developer's, and my comment sounds
like nonsense. Aren't you the clever one.

~~~
ibsulon
This assumes that a non-apple compiler will yield an inferior result. Unity3D
is one example to the contrary. ActionScript may or may not be another, but
efficiency is our secret sauce as developers. It is our inherent value.

~~~
allertonm
I'm pretty certain that ActionScript is not an example to the contrary, and
I'm fairly fond of it as a programming language.

I'd go so far as to suggest that the majority of the non-Apple tools that
people are proposing to use instead of Objective-C _will_ produce an inferior
result, and that's why Apple is clamping down on them.

(BTW, love the kneejerk downvoting in this subthread, keep em coming.)

~~~
ibsulon
Do you believe that Electronic Arts would use LUA if it produced an inferior
result? Do you think it would harm their efficiency and portability if they
weren't mystically "excepted" from the policy?

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allertonm
Firstly, that's a call to authority argument, so automatically suspect.
Secondly you don't present any evidence that EA uses Lua on the iPhone or that
it receives an exemption from Apple to do so.

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flyosity
Maybe I'm in the minority here but I'm a developer who works on iPhone & iPad
apps, loves Objective-C & the Cocoa frameworks, loves the App Store, makes a
decent amount of money from iPhone & iPad apps, and doesn't have much of a
problem with Apple's latest restrictions.

Anyone else in this boat?

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nexneo
Site is not appearing. I think, he is serious about goodbye!

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sunchild
Rule #1 of the Internet: Never announce that you are leaving. Just go.

