
Alibaba’s Jack Ma Tells U.S. Companies to Stop Whining About China - w8rbt
https://www.wsj.com/articles/alibabas-jack-ma-tells-u-s-companies-to-stop-whining-about-china-1512476279
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3pt14159
You mean the China that hacked the shit out of Nortel when I was a teenager to
get global dominance of telecom?

The China that's building artificial islands to get access to the South China
Sea / East Sea?

The China that tries to have trade both ways by forcing Hollywood to portray
China positively just to get 50% of what they should at the Chinese box
office?

The China that quietly supported the DPRK, destabilizing global peace, to get
an edge on their interests?

The China that walls off their own internet completely then whines when
politicians start to question their involvement in our (Canada's) newspapers
and other media?

The China that disallows foreigners to purchase their currency while
stockpiling greenbacks and buying western tech companies?

I don't think we should disengage from China, I think they're liberalizing
(over the long haul anyway; rich, educated people figure out a way to get
access to the truth) but don't for one second think that we should stop
"whining" about China. If anything we should be more vocal in our responses.

~~~
radarsat1
> The China that tries to have trade both ways by forcing Hollywood to portray
> China positively just to get 50% of what they should at the Chinese box
> office?

What's this one about?

~~~
stuffedBelly
that probably refers to the large amount of capital from China instilled into
Hollywood over recent years.

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JumpCrisscross
I've done a good deal of business internationally. A common experience in
repressive regimes is the characterization of democratic discussion as
whining.

~~~
analog31
That's a debate tactic for authoritarians in the US as well.

~~~
matthewmacleod
This is doubtless true in many countries (see the current clusterfuck in the
UK as a prime example). But it's still a valid point.

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stuffedBelly
I don't think Jack Ma is at a place to tell other companies what to do given
Alibaba itself benefits from the government's shield that keeps foreign
competitors away. In the long run, an Alibaba monopoly formed of protective
policy will be detrimental to the Chinese consumers.

P.S. I am Chinese and hold a neutral stance on US/Chinese political systems,
but economics common sense tells me Jack Ma spat out quite some hypocritical
BS there.

~~~
guiltygatorade
There's no doubt that Jack Ma is smart and hard working. But he and his
success is also a product of his environment. I don't have any direct evidence
but no companies in China achieves the kind of success Tencent or Alibaba does
without some sort of government officials silently nodding their heads behind
them.

That means they're likely complicit in any information gathering the
government wants to perform on its citizens as a precondition to their
continued operations. The Chinese government is probably all too happy to see
these "monopolies" that are effectively playing ball with the government,
since the more users that adopt their platform, the more data they have on
their citizens.

And this is not even touching on how they can exert themselves on these
Chinese internet companies to shape the conversations that are happening
online.

Of course you probably already know all this :P

~~~
stuffedBelly
The younger generation (born in 80s/90s) in China is usually aware of the
amount of censorship imposed and take the government policies and
billionaires' success stories with a grain of salt. There are smart ways to
get their voices out through music, art projects and onion articles, and
escaping the censorship has become a fun game to play (hidden political memes
are everywhere right under the big brother's eyes).

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obscurantist
It's profound what utter doublethink (not cognitive dissonance, because these
people can literally say two egregiously hypocritical and contradictory
statements in the same breath and not consciously recognize the inconsistency)
people in China often have about what standards they should hold their own
country to, versus standards for other countries.

~~~
j_jochem
The same can probably be said about US citizens’ relationship to their own
country.

~~~
aaavl2821
there is, and generally has been, a very healthy level of self-criticism
within the USA. based on polling numbers most people dont approve of the
current administration, and the primary messages of both the democratic and
republican parties are essentially "the leadership of our country is screwed
up and we are a morally deteriorating society"

not to say that people in the USA aren't ignorant or arrogant, but there
certainly is a lot of expressed disdain for the government / politicians

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qiqing
A few excerpts re: what Jack Ma actually said (although "whining" is in the
title of the article, it's not even one of the words he actually said):

“I gave advice to Jeff Bezos 10 years ago,” Mr. Ma said, referring to
Amazon.com Inc.’s chief executive. “I said: ‘Please send people with
entrepreneurial spirit, not professional management. Because wherever you go,
doing business in another country is very difficult.’”

...

Mr. Ma spoke out against the perception that U.S. companies can’t succeed in
China, citing Microsoft Corp. and Coca-Cola Co. as businesses that have
thrived here.

“Give me five examples of Chinese companies that succeed in America,” he said.
“Or Asian companies that succeed in America. Because it’s not easy to do
business across nations, it takes time.”

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tyingq
Meh. I'll continue whining about things like UPU subsidies.
[http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-
chinese...](http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-chinese-
shipping/)

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rrggrr
The complaints are a dead end.

\- The global supply chain is inexorably tied to Chinese raw materials (eg.
rare earths) and manufacturing.

\- US and European employers are dependent on Chinese inputs for all manner of
domestic jobs.

\- Financial markets are dependent on Chinese overseas investment and
repatriation flows.

Its simply too late. Any disorderly rebalancing of China's economic model is
likely catastrophic on a global scale. If Ma's point is that we made our own
bed and have to sleep in it - he's right. And none of this is to detract from
@3pt14159 point because China has not demonstrated any interest in becoming a
responsible global power/steward.

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seanmcdirmid
China is the biggest importer of raw materials; they have some, but so does
Australia and South Africa. Also, rare earths aren’t really that rare, just
messy to process leading to higher costs (in the west) or severe environmental
damage (in china). Environment protection will have to change regardless, or
china simply won’t exist as a viable place to live anymore. Sure, we will need
to pay more for rare earths as more responsible production comes online, and
china loses its environmental 差不多 advantage so that capacity doesn’t have to
be there.

Chinese investments are pretty focused in speculative asset bubbles (like real
estate). When that bubble pops, there will be similar pain to Japan, but the
world will recover fairly quickly.

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baxtr
Could anyone summarize this article? I can’t access it. Thanks

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stuffedBelly
The title pretty much summarized it.

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DelightOne
Attempt to redefine perception.

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mtgx
More whining please. It seems to be working, if they're becoming defensive
about it.

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bilbo0s
Only they aren't getting defensive.

In Chinese cultural terms, this is Jack Ma's equivalent of a "victory lap".

I'm not entirely certain why our congress would have even given him a platform
to do that?

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rrggrr
This. Its with great interest I read about 30,000 Chinese troops entering
Syria to aid the Assad regime. 30,000 troops projected 6,900km is power
projection on par with anything the US or Russia can accomplish.

