
Can You Get Smarter? - dnetesn
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/25/opinion/sunday/can-you-get-smarter.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
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kator
My dad went from being an auto mechanic to learning to code when he was 63 and
he's 77 now and argues with me about Drupal vs Joomla over dinner. It's only
one sample but I'm convinced him switching careers extended his neural
plasticity considerably.

~~~
marincounty
I'm not saying you do, but I have found the general public vastly
underestimates the intelligence of many auto mechanics--especially today's
mechanics.

I guess they have always been an easy target in movies, etc.?

I have a feeling your dad could learn anything if given the right structure.
Mechanics are underpaid, expected to continually learn on their time, provide
$20,000-30,000 grand worth of tools; and the owner is the only one making a
real living.

~~~
mikestew
Once-upon-a-time-time auto mechanic, long time software dev here. It's not
just the owner making a living, when I was active it was a decent middle-class
living (25 years ago, could be different now). I'm talking professional, can
diagnose your problem without throwing parts at it, owns a torque wrench and
knows how to use it, not the vocational school students you find at Jiffy
Lube. No one I knew was making BMW payments on their salary, but plenty had a
nice house in a nice suburb, and a boat or other toy for the weekend. I would
have been content to keep at it, but I like making software, too.

It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence
do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most
likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what
you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong.

As with software, there are hot shots that just seem wired for the task, and
there are those that can merely competently do the job without screwing it up
(and, like software, there are those few you don't want anywhere near your
stuff). Just like software, I was one of those that fell in the middle. :-)

Tell ya what though, unlike software, I had very few bad days as an auto
mechanic. Decent money, I enjoyed the work, and when the weather was nice we
open the bay doors and you're practically working outside. Rarely did anyone
second-guess my decisions (and when they did, it was to make _my_ job easier
so I don't do it the hard way), and I rarely had to convince anyone of my
estimates as we had a big book that already estimated how long a competent
mechanic should take to do the job.

One big difference is that incompetence is harder to hide as an auto mechanic.
You're not going to be doing any copy-pasta from StackOverflow when you're an
auto mechanic.

Smart? Eh, like anything, it's hit or miss. Since the repair bays are right
next to each other, and you don't have to expend a lot of cycles thinking
through hash table algorithms, there's plenty of talking. Mechanics are a
reflection of the general population, some guys (and they were all guys back
then; girls worked up front behind the desk) I knew could probably write
philosophy books, others probably won't be moving to Microsoft to write kernel
code any time soon.

In summary, the public underestimates the intelligence of just about everyone
but themselves, so mechanics don't get a pass. Nor do the mechanics care about
what you think, at least this one didn't. I was happy where I was at at the
time, I didn't need anyone's approval. And the money was good.

~~~
agumonkey
Are there websites to discuss and teach mechanic repair informally like SO ? I
mean with a few tutorials I could probably fix a lot of things in cars by
imitating the video. One big difference though, initial cost. I can't download
a wrench yet, and most auto equipment is costly.

~~~
lsc
so I don't know about on the professional level, but on the amateur level...
just about anything you might want to do to your own car? you can find a
youtube tutorial. Last time some asshole busted out my window to steal my
laptop, I replaced it myself; took maybe an hour and a half and a $60 window
from ebay. And a youtube tutorial. Same with replacing brakes/rotors, though
those took considerably more time and effort. (have you ever replaced drum
pads? Jesus. The video makes it look so easy, and I'm sure it is if you know
what you are doing, but my god. Next time I'm letting the professionals handle
that one.)

Even if I'm billing out at my full sysadmin rate, the cost to me of replacing
the window was dramatically cheaper than the $400 my local repair shop quoted
me for a new window. and considering that I pay for car repair out of post-tax
money, the difference is even more dramatic. (now, this is silicon valley
prices, but the window was for a decade-old toyota sienna, so it's not luxury
car in silicon valley prices)

Especially if you are willing to go with 'craftsman' level brands rather than
'snap-on' level brands,[1] tools are pretty cheap compared to what you pay for
auto repair, even if you want things like air tools and compressors.

All that said, while youtube is great for figuring out how to do a thing, it's
less great for troubleshooting; but I think the reason why things like
stackoverflow/serverfault is so great for debugging is that our error messages
are printed out in text that we can search on.

And yeah, I've got an ODB2 reader, and for _those_ errors, the internet is
awesome. (I replaced my oxygen sensor at the request of my odb2 reader a while
back, and that was also easy, facilitated by a youtube video again.) - but for
"my car is making a funny noise" kind of errors, it's hard to search for the
problem without knowing the jargon, you know?

[1]for auto tools, I really don't see much difference between the craftsman
level brands and the better brands. I suspect this has to do with my skill
level; I am very solidly in the shade tree school here, and I'm not ashamed to
get the damn thing towed to someone who really knows what they are doing if I
get in over my head, and that does sometimes happen.

For screwdrivers and other things that you use to rack up or take apart
computers, I have strong opinions, and am significantly less happy if I have
to do the job with my 'backup screwdriver' \- also, I can tell you the
difference between a phillips, pozi-drive, and JIS drivers and become agitated
when someone assembles an object with fastener heads that are more than one of
those.

~~~
mikestew
_[1]for auto tools, I really don 't see much difference between the craftsman
level brands and the better brands._

The difference is that you don't use the same wrench a dozen times a day, day
in and day out. Same reason my home toolboxes don't have roller bearing
drawers: I don't open the drawers a dozen times a day anymore, so it's a waste
of money for me now.

As I said above, Craftsman is fine for the DIYer. It's the brand I frequently
buy. I haven't talked to a Snap-On driver since I left the field.

~~~
lsc
>The difference is that you don't use the same wrench a dozen times a day, day
in and day out.

yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to say with the bit about how I care
very much about the tools for dealing with rackmount computers and how I have
a favorite screwdriver. I didn't care about screwdrivers either until I
started using them a lot. I would bet money that you are right and that if I
worked on cars more, I would care more about getting a really nice set of
automotive tools, but I don't work on cars that much, so I don't really
understand how the really good tools are different from the merely "good
enough" tools, because that comes with experience.

But my main point was that there are tools that are adequate for the shadetree
mechanic that are cheap enough to more than pay for themselves after a single
use in a shadetree level project. If you can afford to have your car fixed,
you have the capital to buy adequate (maybe not really nice... but adequate)
tools to get started with your automotive hobby or the beginning of your
education as a mechanic.

I do imagine that like IT people, most, or at least a whole lot of mechanics
start out as hobbyists. The two seem similar enough to me.

------
birbal
The nature vs nurture debate will go on. But I think the question needs to be
framed differently. Its not about comparing one person with the other but the
approach that best maximizes ones own potential. When framed this way, the
answer becomes very clear - you have to believe that you can become smarter.
This is not just blind belief but is practically the way brain works
(neuroplasticity)and we see it every day. If you can learn to play the guitar
at 60 means you can change your brain. I am sure there are 60 year olds who
are smarter than 20 year olds just like there are 60 year olds who can run for
longer than 20 year olds. As engineers we tend to downplay psychological
factors compared to physiological factors. But the connection has been
established beyond doubt in neuroscience. It hasn't gotten to a point where we
can formulaically impact outcomes through calibrated intervention but the
linkages are clear. Our definition of smartness is very narrow. Here is a
conversation between a 50 year old scientist and a 70 year old poet
[https://www.brainpickings.org/2012/04/27/when-einstein-
met-t...](https://www.brainpickings.org/2012/04/27/when-einstein-met-tagore/)

------
mamon
"six weeks of brain training, with 10-minute sessions three times each week"
\- this seems so insignificant amount of practice that no reasonable person
would expect it to have any effect. More interesting thing would be measure
person's IQ before and after doing their quantum physics PhD studies - few
years of intense work should do the trick of making you smarter.

~~~
DarkTree
This isn't even enough time to significantly increase your strength at a gym,
which we know is possible and observable. Why anyone would think this is
enough training to produce noticeable effects baffles me.

~~~
TeMPOraL
More imporantly, unless there's a hidden software in brain that responds
precisely to that particular training, you'd expect that anything that can
yield significant results by doing it 3x a week for 10 minutes would be
already discovered purely by random chance.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Sure, but would they have recognized it? Would they put 2 and 2 together - "I
ate a hamburger every Tuesday night for a year, and now I'm smarter...Eureka!"

Heck, maybe they would - they're a genius now.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Of course they would, that's how we've invented pretty much anything,
scientific method included. People are pretty observant, there are lots of
them and they've been taking notes for many thousands of years.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Um, I meant the random chance part. If something happens randomly, folks are
rarely watching, right?

------
pella
Dual N-Back : mental exercise ...

* Gwern (unofficial) Dual N-Back FAQ: [http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ](http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ)

* Gwern: DUAL N-BACK META-ANALYSIS [http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20meta-analysis](http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20meta-analysis)

* Gwern: NOOTROPICS [http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics](http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics)

* Google group: Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence : [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/brain-training](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/brain-training)

* [http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/](http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/)

------
monort
This is more dreadful, than ageism. From linked paper:

For example, longitudinal studies have reported between 1% and 2% annual
hippocampal atrophy in adults older than 55 years without dementia (e.g., Jack
and others 1998). Other regions also atrophy in late adulthood, including the
prefrontal cortex, caudate nucleus, and cerebellum, at estimated rates between
0.5% and 2% per year.

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3575139/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3575139/)

~~~
DiabloD3
That is terrifying. I'm 32. That means in slightly over 20 years I am going to
slowly become brain dead.

By the time they cure death in my 70s, I will be too old to enjoy it unless
they also can reverse this.

~~~
Devid2014
The cure to death even partially is probably more that 100 years away from us.

~~~
x5n1
If that. Many people say the reason cancer kills everyone eventually is that
cells in our body wants to be free and it takes that this many generations to
declare their independence and rebel against the perfectly tuned totalitarian
system that is our body.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Maybe your body, certainly not mine. I'm not sure who is in control - not me.

------
neogodless
Does anyone else have a little bit of a problem with the assumption that the
"benchmark test" is enough of a gauge of general intelligence to be
determinative in studies like this?

Additionally, the discussion is mostly revolving around the physical size of
the hippocampus, but instead of measuring that (arguably a difficult task),
they instead rely on a "benchmark test" and base their results on that alone.

What are the indicators that the benchmark test and hippocampus size are
closely correlated?

------
nicklaf
I certainly agree with the author's concluding sentence: "Forget the smart
drugs and supplements; put on your shorts and go exercise." When he set up the
opposing viewpoint earlier in the article, it made me cringe:

"I know, exercise is work, so you undoubtedly want to know if there is a smart
pill, like Adderall or Ritalin, that will do the trick."

What an awful idea.

The mathematical and geometrical genius H.S.M. Coxeter lived to age 96. He
attributed his continuing mental agility through old age to never being
"bored", and to doing 50 push-ups a day.

~~~
lsc
Why is a pill that makes you more like what you want to be an awful idea?

I'm not making any statement about the effects of the drugs in question; if
they don't work or have bad side effects, obviously, that's bad, but my point
is that people seem to think that drugs, even when they work and have
reasonable side effects are a somehow bad or shameful route to self-
improvement, and I don't see why that is.

If we're talking about famous people, what about Erdos?

~~~
nicklaf
Sorry, I should be more precise. I don't think the pill itself is an "awful
idea". What is a bad idea (IMO) is relying on a pill specifically because you
don't want to exercise, which has been shown to work, and has too many
interrelated benefits to mention.

I think stimulants are fine--Erdős took amphetamines, lots of kids take
Adderall, and most mathematicians probably drink tea of coffee.

~~~
lsc
ah. yeah. From what I read nothing is as effective as exercise. I recently
stopped bicycling to work... and am a lot worse for it. Just sayin' if there
_was_ a pill that was as effective as exercise, I'd take it.

------
hypertexthero
To stay sharp, start and keep
[drawing]([https://vimeo.com/6986303](https://vimeo.com/6986303)) and
teaching.

------
paulpauper
_All subjects took a benchmark cognitive test, a kind of modified I.Q. test,
at the beginning and at the end of the study. Although improvements were
observed in every cognitive task that was practiced, there was no evidence
that brain training made people smarter. Scores on the benchmark test, for
which subjects could not train, did not significantly increase at the end of
the study._

That's what I suspected.

------
meow_mix
I wonder how necessity affects neuroplasticity? I think of foreigners who are
forced to to learn a new language and culture at an older age. I can't help
but think ones mind needs "jolt" to become smarter.

------
amelius
I'm interested in what medicines and supplements people are taking to improve
their brain plasticity.

~~~
chriskanan
Valproate supposedly increases plasticity for some skills:
[https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24831-learning-
drugs-...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24831-learning-drugs-
reawaken-grown-up-brains-inner-child/)

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848041/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848041/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valproate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valproate)

Taking acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, also may increase plasticity:
[http://dana.org/Cerebrum/2012/Re-
opening_Windows__Manipulati...](http://dana.org/Cerebrum/2012/Re-
opening_Windows__Manipulating_Critical_Periods_for_Brain_Development/)

Here is a list of acetylcholinesterase inhibitors:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholinesterase_inhibitor...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholinesterase_inhibitor#Examples)

There are a few other ways to potentially increase neuroplasticity:

Blood transfusions from young people or children to old people:
[http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v20/n6/full/nm.3569.html](http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v20/n6/full/nm.3569.html)

Transplanting inhibitory neurons:
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627315...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662731500286X)

~~~
DanBC
Mild warning about valproate: it's associated with PCOS (so only relevant to
women).

------
EGreg
So is this an example of Betteridge's law?

------
lukasm
>YOU can increase the size of your muscles by pumping iron and improve your
stamina with aerobic training.

How come? You increase the size of the muscles by lifting heavy.

~~~
tingol
That's what pumping iron means.

~~~
lukasm
I though he meant Fe

~~~
mhb
Great movie:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8aqP2NWk8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8aqP2NWk8)

