
Reddit has shut down its nascent cryptocurrency project - lelf
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/feb/02/redditcoin-quietly-killed-off-and-lead-developer-fired
======
alexis
Not sure where the author got "redditcoin" but here's what we're actually
doing with redditnotes (I said the same thing to fortune when this rumor first
arose):

We will be issuing redditnotes.

Our research leads us to want to wait until the law and technology around
cryptocurrency are further along before deciding exactly how. We want to make
sure we can give the community the full value of the equity when they receive
it in the future, and today we haven’t been able to find a way to do that
within existing regulations.

Edit: here's the last official blog post on the subject.
[http://www.redditblog.com/2014/12/announcing-reddit-
notes.ht...](http://www.redditblog.com/2014/12/announcing-reddit-
notes.html?m=1) We were not contacted by this guardian reporter didn't contact
us for comment. So it goes.

~~~
minimaxir
You should be issuing an official blog post stating this in explicit,
unambiguous terms, as there's a lot of confusion around just what exactly are
RedditNotes.

EDIT: A new post, to reflect the fact that the current cryptography plans have
been halted.

~~~
alexis
We did in December. This is still a work in progress. Thanks, I've updated my
comment.

~~~
minimaxir
Ah, I meant issue a new post, to reflect the fact that there are no
cryptographic plans currently.

If you read the corresponding Reddit thread to that blog post
([http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/2pt25f/announcing_redd...](http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/2pt25f/announcing_reddit_notes/)),
there's a lot of skepticism on whether RedditNotes is actually legal
(including in this very HN thread), and there is speculation that the laying
off of the one person who could actually implement it indicates that the
project is dead.

~~~
loblollyboy
don't tell alexis what to do

------
vectorpush
I'm glad they killed this project. I can't see how integrating a crypto-
payment system into reddit would have worked out into anything other than a
disaster.

First of all, if it became commonplace that reddit accounts might contain some
sum of crypto-money, the bustling onslaught of salivating hackers would become
so tremendous that the site would likely be crippled under the weight of user
grievances and brute-force traffic. I'm sure mandatory MFA would be put in
place to increase security, but it wouldn't change the fact that reddit would
become a major target for hackers, and many people would lose their money,
despite MFA.

Next, I think the incentives for shit and spam posts would rocket off the
chart as scammers, beggars and cam-models would likely flood the site with
crap so that they can extract tips from anyone willing to toss penny shavings
in their direction. Karma is already a sufficient reward mechanism, adding
money into the fray is totally unnecessary and would almost certainly lower
the quality of discussion.

Finally, this may be a stretch, but I fear that integrating crypto-money into
the site would open the door for pay-to-subscribe/pay-to-view/pay-to-
comment/pay-to-vote subreddit mechanisms. I understand that reddit is a
business, but I think that this would be objectively bad, and even worse if
subreddit mods were able to get a cut of it.

In the end, I don't think reddit needs crypto, it doesn't make the site better
in any conceivable way.

~~~
1ris
Quite a while ago i saw a thread "How to make Reddit worse". Besides adding
avatars, signatures, etc, one of the most popular suggestion was to give karma
a monetary value. I'm really glad it didn't happen.

~~~
pluma
Gold is kinda that. Reddit has started encouraging users to "gild" each other
for outstanding posts, so it's essentially used like karma.

~~~
potatolicious
Gold is thankfully not exchangeable for any goods or services though - it's
really just another tier of karma.

With just karma/gold alone there's already a lot of people who spend a
ridiculous amount of time farming it. Imagine if Imaginary Internet Points
were redeemable for actual things.

------
harvestmoon
Reddit is a great site in what it does. And due to its nature, it has
tremendous amount of niches, some of which are worth a lot of money if handled
properly.

For instance, /r/watches is an active area for discussion of watches. The
people who post there often share their new Rolex or their treasured Patek
Phillipe. /r/watches is just one of many, many such niches on the site which
have a lot of potential value.

My thinking has been that reddit could focus on developing the value in its
many product oriented subforums.

Also, interestingly enough, reddit has already sort of created its own new
cybercurrency - dogecoin. Though it may not be doing well, I think most of the
value in dogecoin was how easy it was to use on reddit.

reddit does need to find a way to monetize. I think it could do so quite
successfully due to the nature of it having many high value niches.

I say all this as a big fan of the site and have even been considering making
a subreddit finder (so that someone who is a fan of the TV show Suits, for
instance, can know that there is /r/suits to discuss the show, which they
would have simply no way of knowing if they just landed on reddit's homepage
with pictures of Very Round Eggs, to use a current example).

~~~
sharkweek
To your first point, I always wondered if there was a way to monetize the
individual subs and allow moderators of these subs to somehow take a part of
the cut. There are a million risks in this, and I assume the biggest fear
would be that it would destroy a lot of the current culture and increase "MOD
CONSPIRACY" fears; but it would still be interesting to test.

Regarding the subreddit finder, Pinterest has the perfect model for your first
login where it asks you about your interests and subscribes you specifically
to those types of things. Reddit should most certainly do the same thing as it
did take me a while to get into the site, and the best day on Reddit was
discovering that I could unsubscribe from the defaults I didn't care much for
and find the communities I cared about.

~~~
bhayden
My issue is most subreddit moderators are young guys who, for the first time
in their life, have some small authority over a group of people and are total
shitheads about it. They have no credentials other than having thought to make
the subreddit before anyone, and have done nothing to deserve a cut of profits
of anything. If I owned reddit, I wouldn't want these people to work for me.

~~~
Phlarp
This is essential-- mods already have way too much power, and are constantly
found to be doing naughty things on a very reliable basis. Selling sidebar
links, keeping funds from "charity drives", squashing certain domains,
outright selling mod accounts to industry marketers (/r/android) and these are
just the things we know about! Moderator powers need to be restricted with
constant vigilance by the admins and community.

Adding the potential for monetary rewards will not move this problem in the
correct direction.

------
yafujifide
Ryan X. Charles here. AMA.

~~~
ivraatiems
Why isn't this being brought to Reddit's userbase? This seems like something
where a lack of transparency will really hurt the company.

~~~
yafujifide
Why isn't what being brought to the reddit userbase? That they fired me? That
reddit notes is now paused? They are probably waiting for the right time to
make an announcement I guess. They probably didn't realize that by firing (or
letting me go, whatever) that they would draw the interest of the media.

~~~
ivraatiems
Sorry - it's really all of the above. To be more clear, I will break this into
some sub-questions that are hopefully less obsequious.

The "reddit is giving 10% of its shares to its users" thing was very
positively received. My understanding was that redditcoin was part of that
effort. Is the 10% thing still going to happen in some way? If not, why not?

Regardless of the answer to the question above, hearing that redditcoin is
being cancelled would likely lead members to conclude the new leadership
doesn't want the community shares system that was so touted previously. Is
that the case, if you know?

And then the final, more meta question is: Why would Reddit's staff, of all
people, think they could do something involving Reddit quietly?

~~~
yafujifide
> The "reddit is giving 10% of its shares to its users" thing was very
> positively received. My understanding was that redditcoin was part of that
> effort. Is the 10% thing still going to happen in some way? If not, why not?

I think they intend to make the 10% thing happen eventually, although the
project is currently paused. I estimate 1+ year before any aspect of the
project resumes. However, I am not privy to the conversations the executives
have had about it, so I don't really know.

> Regardless of the answer to the question above, hearing that redditcoin is
> being cancelled would likely lead members to conclude the new leadership
> doesn't want the community shares system that was so touted previously. Is
> that the case, if you know?

I don't know.

> Why would Reddit's staff, of all people, think they could do something
> involving Reddit quietly?

Ha. No idea.

~~~
ivraatiems
Interesting. I appreciate your candidness!

------
danso
How far did the implementation of the currency go, and will what remains of it
be released as OSS, if it's worthwhile to do so?

~~~
yafujifide
If you know much about the bitcoin world, implementing a new "cryptocurrency"
is not exactly a technical challenge. I never created one because I could have
done so during any one-week or so period of time. The problems were entirely
legal.

Also note that my primary goal, misunderstood by everyone but Yishan, was not
just to make reddit notes work, but build reddit's cryptofinancial system. p2p
payments on reddit had enormous potential, now substantially delayed.

------
banderon
Only 125 days since I posted this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8390136](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8390136).
I thought it was a cool idea... but I also thought BTC was a worthy investment
at $400.

------
muyuu
Reddit seems a bit without direction lately. Maybe they cannot make as much
from their popularity as they expected.

~~~
diminoten
Why do they need direction?

~~~
muyuu
Because they are a for-profit company. Generally investing in stuff and then
scraping it immediately before it could possibly work, is not a very good
idea.

~~~
lazyjones
> _Generally investing in stuff and then scraping it immediately before it
> could possibly work, is not a very good idea._

Seems to work for Google... and Microsoft.

~~~
muyuu
It doesn't, they just can afford to bleed cash all over the place do that
thanks to their monopoly money, which is virtually an endless resource.

