
Jury convicts brothers in H-1B fraud case, jail possible - bruceb
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3005272/it-careers/jury-convicts-brothers-in-h-1b-fraud-case-jail-possible.html
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xan92
This is not something new, It has been happening from a very long time, I am a
Indian myself I know many people have formed such Consultancies in US and hire
people from India filing for a position in their office, But eventually making
you find job with whomever you choose and taking a part of your pay until you
get Green card or some so called good ones just take your full net pay for 3
months in installments. And these type of firms also now create fake projects
have desktops setup fake clients setup, hire so called "IT Professionals" from
India stating he is a "Java |Ruby Specialist" creating fake documentation for
the project, Fooling the immigration panel and eventually bypassing a system
with wrong intentions.

On the flip side they also have gotten smarter now by hiring new grads from
India who come to US to pursue "MS in tech" add some fake experience to them,
train them for a month or two and leave them in the market for potential
suitors, only the people who have passion to learn and thrive get to the top
and are in the top currently in US markets.

Indian IT service provider companies are a different animal all together, they
abuse the system by putting up multiple applications (Here you get some
descent resources with no fake qualifications) but still it doesn't do justice
to a startup that wants to hire one good resource from abroad because these
sharks have already filled up the quota.

Ref: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/us/large-companies-
game-h-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/us/large-companies-
game-h-1b-visa-program-leaving-smaller-ones-in-the-cold.html)

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Friedduck
The H-1B program is a joke. I've witnessed hundreds of people at a single firm
who wholesale replaced the existing workforce.

Some were qualified but most weren't. Most had no experience and required
training.

The management of that firm told people point blank that there was no future
for developers, and to consider other careers. So when I hear that it's
difficult to find qualified resources I consider how many have moved on or
ruled out technology altogether because of experiences like that.

We've created our own problem by looking the other way when firms abused the
program.

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hackaflocka
Most Indian "IT Recruitment / Consulting" firms in the U.S. are exactly this.

There's a company in Houston TX that tried to snare me into a scheme like this
a decade ago. I'd love to name the company and the owner but this is not the
forum to do so.

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iamleppert
Why is it about the Indian culture that breeds these sorts of businesses? This
isn't the first time I've heard of this. Why do fellow Indians take advantage
of their own people for profit, instead of helping each other out?

This isn't the first time I've seen this scheme, and in the times I have it
has been all Indian people taking advantage of other native Indians.

~~~
steego
Let me ask a few follow up questions:

1\. What do you think it is?

2\. Do you think this is unique to the Indian culture, or do you do you think
it's shared by other cultures, including your own?

3\. What do you think about cultures that breed the type of businesses that
take advantage of other groups of people for profit?

4\. Compared to Indian wages, could an Indian business owner could easily see
themselves doing his fellow Indians a favor while making a profit?

Here's my point. Look before you leap before you turn this into a cultural or
racist conversation, because it's a much bigger issue than that and it
deserves to be looked at from a larger perspective.

My personal opinion is we need to overhaul to H1-B system to eliminate any
leverage an H1-B employer has over their employee. If we want to eliminate the
exploitation of immigrants, it's critical they share our freedoms to switch
jobs. If we don't grant immigrants that freedom, we're just inviting an
immigrant culture where immigrants will consistently earn less which will have
the effect of suppressing wages overall.

UPDATED: Formatting and grammar.

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iamleppert
I have no idea what the answers to your questions are. I'm simply stating what
I have observed in my own experiences. I've never seen anyone exploit the H1B
system for such personal gain except Indian people, and more often than not
they are looking to their own people for their sources of exploitation. I'm
just wondering why it isn't more common. Why don't we have Chinese or other
asian cultures doing this? What is the source?

~~~
steego
You might actually be right that specifically exploiting the H1B system is
statistically an Indian phenomenon, but the way you ask it makes it a huge
distraction when talking about the larger issue.

However, the way you asked it made it sound like you were suggesting Indians
are the only ones exploiting their own people. I'd argue most cultures exploit
their own in different ways.

Personally, I don't think that's an important question. I think the bigger
question is: How can we fix the laws and regulations so our government doesn't
inadvertently create an incentive for employers to set up IT shops consisting
of cheap immigrant labor tied to sponsoring employers? Can we solve that
problem while encouraging the best and the brightest people to work here, earn
good salaries, pay taxes and start businesses?

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mavelikara
Looks like the Nanda brothers had a fall out in 2012[1] and this might have
come out as part of that spat.

[1]: [http://600commerce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Dibon-
Solu...](http://600commerce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Dibon-
Solutions-v.-Nanda.pdf)

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revelation
This seems to be the same scheme that the other big consultancy firms you see
pop up on the H1B list (Infosys, Tata, Deloitte) use, why are they not being
charged?

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mavelikara
From the linked article:

> The government said that H-1B workers were only "paid for time spent working
> at a third-party company and only if the third-party company actually first
> paid Dibon for the workers' services.

> "The conspirators falsely represented that the workers had full-time
> positions and were paid an annual salary, as required by regulation to
> secure the visas," said the government, in a statement announcing the
> conviction.

Do you know if Infosys, Tata or Deloitte treat their employees similarly? Or
was it garden-variety-H-1B-hatred which prompted you to post this?

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humble_dev
Of course I agree that it was bad, but up to 20 years looks way to long for
this crime.

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rwallace
Calling it fraud suggests that; 20 years in prison is an excessive punishment
just for stealing money. But H1B is actually a large fraction of the way to
slavery, and slavery is a worse crime than murder. So in this case I'd be fine
with them getting the full 20 years.

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olalonde
You are comparing independent consultants/contractors to slaves, seriously?

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rwallace
Last I checked the terms of H1B, workers under it were not independent by a
very long shot. Not outright slaves, granted, but the term 'indentured
servitude' could reasonably be used.

