
Apple Targets Launch of Apple TV+ in November for $9.99 - MBCook
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-19/apple-is-targeting-launch-of-apple-video-service-by-november
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jumelles
I will be very surprised if Apple manages to grow this into a bona fide
Netflix etc. competitor. Disney's Disney+ / Hulu / ESPN+ bundle is four
dollars a month more than Apple TV+ - with just Marvel, Star Wars, and Disney
classics, I'd expect it to be a winner, but there's even more than that. What
does Apple hope to offer better than even smaller streaming services like
Crackle (Sony) or CBS All Access?

Amazon, like Apple, has plenty of money to pour into entertainment if they
decide they want to. But if it's not profitable why should Apple keep spending
on its own service? Netflix, though, is in the biggest trouble, I think;
anecdotally people seem to think of Amazon and Hulu content as better-quality
on average than Netflix. Disney is spending a massive amount of money on its
upcoming original shows obviously trying to compete with Amazon or maybe even
HBO. (And meanwhile who knows whether Warner has any idea what they're doing
with HBO - look at their DC Universe compared with Marvel.)

In the end it's an amazing time to work in the entertainment industry. And to
pirate media.

~~~
throwamay1241
I still don't understand why services don't attempt to bundle more. All my
media is pirated, which conveniently ends up in a single app.

I'd probably consider a $10-15/AUD streaming service if it included _all_ the
music, movies and party-music-video playlists I need /in one app/. It'd be a
pretty tactical move to bundle that all into a decent internet plan, too.

But judging by the TV shows my sickchill server and automatically nabs and
pushes to my plex server my tastes would require 4-5 separate services and be
in the range of $40-60/month, so I guess I'll keep doing what I currently do.

~~~
dageshi
I don't imagine $15 for all that is enough to keep producing content, they'll
happily lose you to piracy in the hopes of keeping and retaining a larger
audience who will pay.

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mark_l_watson
I watched Apple’s live presentation with Oprah and other stars, and I was very
enthusiastic about having another platform.

Since then, we got Amazon Prime for the bundled media (I had been on my
brother’s business Prime membership that did not include video).

Amazon did a good job of integrating other paid services like Netflix, HBO
Now, and CBS streaming. The user experience is actually pretty good, and the
only hardware needed is a very inexpensive Firestick that our daughter and son
in law gave us.

With no cable or satellite service, good internet, and monthly costs of $10
Prime, $15 Netflix, $6 CBS (for Star Trek), and $15 HBO Now, we have way more
entertainment than we could every watch, and a reasonable cost. Friends who
can’t give up cable are stuck because they are addicted to channel surfing the
“news” shows, which I argue is a really unhealthy activity. No new and no
commercials works for me.

~~~
biztos
FWIW Amazon Prime has been brutal about VPNs over the last few years, at least
the ones I've tried. I'm still a Prime customer but even some Prime Originals
can't be viewed in Europe and I haven't had much success with the standard
(paid) VPN experience.

Apple, on the other hand, is happy to sell me anything from the US store and
let me download or stream it anywhere in the EU when I'm there.

I imagine people affected by this make up a negligible part of the market, but
I find it a compelling differentiator. Not that I'd give up Prime... in
addition to the whole "ship to nowheresville" thing, Patriot[0] bought them
this cinephile's loyalty for at least a few years.

[0]:
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4687882/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4687882/)

~~~
tinus_hn
Amazon Prime, like Netflix, streams a lot of licensed content. Part of the
license is about territory which forces these companies into policing VPNs.

~~~
biztos
Yes, but is it not odd that this applies to some original content, and that
Apple apparently views things differently?

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joegahona
> Analysts have suggested Apple TV+ could top 100 million subscribers in the
> next half-decade, which would make it a major challenger to Netflix and
> Amazon.

Doesn't Prime have 100 million US subscribers now? And Netflix is something
like 60 million. I guess these analysts predict they'll both stagnate while
Apple will grow from 0 to 100 million in 5 years?

~~~
stanmancan
Prime is an odd one though since nobody subscribes to Prime Video
specifically, it’s a value add included with their Prime membership. Is it
fair to compare that number to Netflix or Apple TV when they’re both stand
alone products?

~~~
dewey
I know this is just for the US but just to clarify. The Prime Video included
in your Prime subscription is only available in a few countries (US, DE,
GB,...) all other countries have primevideo.com which is a stand-alone video
only subscription.

~~~
mrweasel
That may be because Amazon Prime doesn't make sense in some countries.
Example: Free two day delivery doesn't make sense if you can expect free/cheap
next-day delivery from local webshops.

Other Amazon Prime benefits requires that Amazon have a local presence in your
country or area, so it makes sense that it's limited to countries where Amazon
at least have distribution centers.

~~~
CamelCaseName
Just to add to your comment, Amazon Prime also doesn't make sense in countries
with a fairly poor Amazon presence / high shipping costs. E.g. Canada.

~~~
stanmancan
I'm in Canada (lower mainland) and have Prime. The free same/next day shipping
makes it worth it for us. We don't order a ton, but probably 15-20 times per
year is enough to justify it.

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pcurve
Well, there you have it. Back to paying $100/month for tv/video

~~~
coding123
If internet was 50 of that you would have to be subscribed to 5 of these to
pay that much. That seems like way more than I've ever had since cord cutting.
On top of that it's highly likely people will drop one or two a lot more
easily when their current fav show is done.

~~~
nickthegreek
I think there is a large portion of people who already have netflix and a
streaming music service. A good portion of those already have Prime as well.
I'd imagine most cord cutters would be comfortable doing 2 video+1 music.

I do $15 for netflix (4k, allows 4 streams. mom & bro use extra). I use
Youtube Premium as it provides the best value to me (access to google play
music & ad-free youtube/originals). That is another $11. I'd love to have CBS
All-Access but thats not happening just for Star Trek. Maybe they will be
changing their service after the CBS/Viacom merger which would give them a
HUGE back catalog of good snack content to appease subscribers as they grow
their originals.

The new disney+ bundle (with Hulu ad supported, and espn is $15 i think).
Unbundle is $7.

Then you have HBO Max coming which should be AT LEAST $15 (the current price
of HBO go).

I'd bet there will be a new crackdown on account sharing with these services
to maximize subscriber count. Piracy is going to be coming back in a big way.
Access to a friends PLEX account is gonna be the new happiness.

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Epopeehief54
They should’ve bundled this into Apple Music or at the very least made it a $5
upcharge to bundle the two.

~~~
anthony_doan
I rather have the second option.

Amazon Prime went up around the time they bundle their online streaming. IIRC.

I'd like to have more choices and if I wanted a service or not.

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oflannabhra
The current rumors point to Disney+ being fully interoperable with a Apple’s
ecosystem (Apple TV channels, launching on Apple’s platforms, etc), and _not_
interoperable with Amazon’s platform or devices.

I’m curious whether Apple has worked out a Disney bundle.

$10/mo seems high for their initial launch.

~~~
dragonwriter
> The current rumors point to Disney+ being fully interoperable with a Apple’s
> ecosystem (Apple TV channels, launching on Apple’s platforms, etc), and not
> interoperable with Amazon’s platform or devices

What I heard (and I thought it was announcement, not mere rumour) was that
Disney+ was actively working to be available not only on Amazon devices, but
actually as an add-on in Prime video the same way HBO Now and a number of
other streaming services that are also standalones are.

~~~
gamblor956
Actually Gizmodo and Engadget are reporting this as well. Amazon is the only
media device company that Disney+ isn't launching on.

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clay_the_ripper
Well there seems to be a lot of negativity tomwards this launch. 9.99 seems
reasonable, and their lineups of originals sound pretty good. I’d rather pay
$10 for this than Netflix to be honest which has tons of content most of which
is absolutely terrible. Between hbo and Apple, I could have an amazing lineup
of shows and movies for $22/month. Sounds like a good deal to me.

I for one am excited about this and will probably subscribe. I spend a heck of
a lot more than 120/year on a lot of random stuff that doesn’t provide nearly
the value of this.

~~~
jayd16
The Apple originals aren't out yet so why do say it's an amazing lineup? While
not everything is a hit Netflix does have solid original content but Apple is
not a content company. I'm taking more of a wait and see approach here. Good
content is not easy.

~~~
ehsankia
Yeah, all we have so far is the names attached and a few words said on a big
stage. We know very little about the shows, and obviously the people working
on it will try to make it sound as good as they can. If I had a penny for
every time some actor hyped up a movie or show that ended up being awful...

And I agree, Netflix goes for a wider breadth, but they have a significant
number of quality and original content. Shows like Maniac, Our Planet, Russian
Doll, Master of None, Ozark, Stranger Things, American Vandal and so on.
There's something on there for everyone, and enough that you're never out of
shows to watch.

~~~
wolco
I invest a lot of time with netflix and watch everything possible (tv series
wise). I'm down to a handful of series but I'm ignoring certain categories
(superheros, kids, teen and period pieces, some cooking/gameshows).

I find the libruary is getting thinner. Quality shows produced outside of
netflix are disappearing and no new replacements. Popular netflix shows are
cancelled or the next season takes 1.5 years. Seasons are usually the minimum
(10 shows or less).

Not sure netflix is going to win in the content war and may lose in the
usability arena when other providers start launching have better browsing
experiences.

Two under the radar shows: Bruno and Brownsville

~~~
ehsankia
I agree that a lot of shows are cut off after 2-3 seasons, and that there are
fewer external shows, but I disagree that there's no replacement. There are so
many new shows added every week or month. Sure most of it may not appeal to
you directly, but generally I've found that there's at least 2-3 good new
shows/specials/movies per month for me.

Again, most of the shows I named in my previous post were from the last year
alone. It is sometimes hard to find good stuff though in the huge pile of
shows.

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OrgNet
We need this space to become so fragmented that, in its final phase, you end
up paying the copyright holder directly... just need to find a way to make the
process easy for the user

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chrischen
I don't get why they don't just slowly ramp up this model to figure out how
and if it works. I assume Netflix has troves of data on viewer preferences and
what types of shows would work. Apple is just dumping half of Netflix's budget
blindly into a bunch of shows.

~~~
MBCook
I suppose they know what people buy in the iTunes Store. That’s something.

~~~
chrischen
I woulds say that people buying things in itunes stores is << Netflix views
and ratings.

~~~
eridius
Why? When people buy things in the iTunes Store it means they think it's
actually worth money. Once you have a Netflix subscription, watching shows
there is free, so views is a signal of interest but not a great signal of
whether the viewer meaningfully values the show.

~~~
skinnymuch
Lots of diversity with who watches Netflix. Not as much with iTunes visual
media buying.

~~~
eridius
What's your source on diversity of people who buy things on iTunes?

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vallismortis
I knew this would be coming eventually, I just expected it 10 years ago, not
now. The one non-subscription device I own finally goes subscription.

They are so late to the game. Just yesterday there were articles here about
subscription fatigue. After GoT ended, I dumped everything except a minimal
Hulu subscription, and I'm starting to wonder why I'm keeping that around.

I have a lot of questions about this, including how they plan to sell me on
their subscription model, which will clearly compete with the backlog of shows
and movies that were already bought on iTunes at a price they were notorious
for commodotizing, in addition to the other streaming services that they offer
over their own hardware (Hulu, Netflix, HBO, CBS), all of which have their own
content monopolies. The one thing that might do it for me is if they managed
to get a monopoly on BigTen Network, that would get them a dedicated customer
for 6 or 7 months out of the year, depending on how the season goes.

~~~
wlesieutre
I know Apple had some history with Disney (well, Steve Jobs had history with
Pixar), so I wonder if they'll have some sort of deal to include Disney
content in this.

Because if they don't, I have a really hard time seeing Apple's content
library at $10 competing _at all_ with Disney+ at $7.

An alternate theory, Apple has other subscription services (Music and upcoming
Arcade) that could be bundled together at a discount to give them a
competitive offering.

Since they're finally trying to make a serious push on Apple TV as a gaming
platform (in that it's getting PS3/XB1 controller support) it would make some
sense to try and rope people into both subscriptions. If music rides along and
gets people to switch from Spotify, that's a bonus.

~~~
lancesells
But isn't Disney+ only Disney properties and family-friendly content? Apple
seems more like a HBO or Netflix.

~~~
andyfleming
You have to remember Disney includes Pixar, Marvel, Star Wars, and 20th
Century Fox, which includes the Simpsons. They advertise 30 seasons of the
Simpsons on the Disney plus landing page.

~~~
lancesells
So Disney+ will have original content for mature audiences content from Fox? I
totally think it'll be a monster hit but it seems like if you're not
interested in the franchises and want to watch truly original series / content
you need an HBO or Netflix.

~~~
cududa
Family friendly will be Disney+ everything and the kitchen sink will be Hulu

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wyldfire
They're producing original content, too. I saw a trailer today for a feature
film from Apple w/an A-list cast.

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ryanschneider
Has Apple ever really pursued being an ISP? I feel like competing with bundled
cable Internet at least in the US is going to be the main thing holding back
potential cord cutters sometime soon. I don’t have cable but still pay Cox
$100 for my internet, and every time I go looking for alternatives nothing
really looks much better.

~~~
caymanjim
YouTube TV is fantastic, and even after they raised the price to $50, it's
still cheaper for me to use YouTube TV + Comcast internet. YTV is better and
cheaper than any cable TV package I've got access to, even if I bundle.

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ptah
it would only be worth it if they provided entire itunes movie catalog. prime,
netflix, disneylife and nowtv covers all other bases already

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dxxvi
I'd like to have somebody compete with YouTubeTV. They are very expensive now
($50/month).

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pram
Actually it's only $9.70 a month with 3% back on Apple services with your
Apple Card! You're practically getting 1/3rd of a month for free every year.

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ProAm
Stopping innovative hardware to focus on subscription services is a sad day
for Apple. Banking on people forgetting to cancel a monthly subscription to
keep profit margins up is certainly a way to make a buck but for a company
that used to be a world beater this is a whimper.

~~~
caymanjim
Apple has infinite resources. There's no reason they can't do both.

~~~
ProAm
Im not sure if you have seen their keyboards lately (for starters) but they
are definitely not doing one of those things anymore.

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burke
Unless they're killing one or more of Netflix, Prime, and Crave, they're just
making the world a worse place with this.

Remember that brief period when that thing where you had to decide which cable
channels you wanted had died, and all you needed was Netflix, before the
present day where you have to decide which of a whole handful of streaming
service you should subscribe to?

~~~
dymk
> that brief period when that thing where you had to decide which cable
> channels you wanted had died, and all you needed was Netflix

This was never the case; Netflix always missed a huge chunk of content that
cable providers had. Apple is just providing another service that provides
_more_ content. They're not "taking away" from you with this new service.

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ishan1121
Ah one more paid subscription service to consume more content and waste more
time...no thanks! I think as more of these services are launched, torrents
will gain more popularity. Not everyone is going to subscribe to everything.
Maybe a group of friends will share accounts but that is it

~~~
dymk
Lucky for everybody, you only have to subscribe to one or two of these
services to have more content than you could possibly consume in a lifetime

~~~
ishan1121
It doesn't matter if a platform has more content than anyone can watch on
their lifetime. What matters is, how much content worth watching a platform
has.

Think about this - for watching GoT I had to subscribe to HBO and to watch
some Marvel movie I go to Disney Plus. I keep on switching.

