
The Britishisation of American English - noashx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19670686
======
cbs
_"that sort of London glottal stop", dropping the T in words like "important"
or "Manhattan"._

So I agree with the premise of this article, but the glottal stop is found in
many regional American accents.

The internet removes language barriers from lines drawn on the ground, and
this small difference has sped up a still very, very slow process started by
television. Language is evolving towards a single shared language, right now
we can see the regional differences falling away between nations. TV has
dissolved much of the regional differences within the US. The difference is
still there, and probably always will be, but its a lot weaker than it was a
few decades ago.

~~~
untakenusername
The use of the glottal stop for the /t/ in "Manhattan" is how New York City
natives born throughout the 20th century generally pronounced it, other than
possibly elite class speakers. And you're correct that such glottalization
occurs in other contexts in many regional US accents. The suggestion that this
might be a result of recent British English influence is absurd.

~~~
Vivtek
It's actually more likely to be a holdover from _very old_ British English
influence - the Irish and Scots press-ganged white slaves who fled into the
hills of Virginia and became the rednecks of coal country. I know that's where
I get most of my dialect, even though I grew up in Indiana (so I also get a
Blues-Brothersish Chicagoan avoidance of theta, to end up with that unique
Hoosier accent that non-obsessives don't notice).

London doesn't have a monopoly on glottal stops.

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Vivtek
Cute. Their sidebar isn't all that accurate, though. "Called Joe" a
Britishism? 'Fraid not, chaps. Booking a flight? Also not that British. And
"an American would say" is more than a little offensive, although surely not
intentionally.

Also they missed "wanker" - which has been used a lot lately. It's a good
word.

~~~
malvim
Non-American here, and I failed to see how "an American would say" is
offensive. It seems to me that it's just pointing out the differences, which
doesn't ring as offensive at all. Would you care to explain? (I am genuinely
asking this question out of curiosity, not criticizing)

Also, +1 on "wanker". It is indeed a good word.

~~~
Vivtek
Sorry - in politics, the worst possible thing one American can do to another
is to imply that they're not really American. I'm a liberal from Indiana -
that may or may not mean anything to you - but somebody identifying me as a
not-quite-American based on something I say that maybe sounds too posh really
raises my hackles, even as I realize, full well, that it's a really stupid
reaction.

Even then, I didn't really notice it until I'd read three things I say that
_an American wouldn't_. Dammit. It's like the time that chick in Germany tried
to tell me I don't speak English, just American. I may not know everything,
but by God and St. George I am the utter master of my dialect and precisely
how and when it differs from whatever we Anglophones deem "standard".

~~~
malvim
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were implying that BEING called an
American was offensive, instead of the other way around. I understand now.

I also didn't see the implication of being "not really American" if you don't
say it that way, but I see what you mean.

Funny story about the girl in Germany, though. :P

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nicholassmith
Maybe eventually the Britishisation will extend to returning the 'u' to colour
so I make far, far fewer typos.

Although it's interesting see the cross-pollenisation that seems to be
happening linguistically thanks to media shifting both ways across the pond.
Often used to be American imported media flowing into Britain with very few
things leaving, but it seems like there's more American Doctor Who fans than
British ones now.

~~~
npsimons
I still think it's funny that for a culture that was so at odds with the
French that their slang for toilet is named after a line of French kings, they
still spell things like the French ("colour" being one example, "theatre"
another).

As to Doctor Who, well, it's more soap opera than science fiction these days
(and has been for a while), so it's no surprise that it's wildly popular in
the states.

~~~
heyitsnick
> I still think it's funny that for a culture that was so at odds with the
> French ... they still spell things like the French ("colour" being one
> example, "theatre" another).

But the word descends directly from the French language; 30% of English is
from the French, it's largest influence (another 30% is from latin, 30% from
Germanic, and the rest from other sources). So it's not that we are choosing
to 'spell things like the French': the word IS French, as are countless other
words. It's our biggest source of vocab.

~~~
gmac
Also, we don't. Colour =/= couleur.

~~~
melg
and "theatre" is not spelled like "théâtre"

------
tokenadult
From the article: "She sees this as clearly tied to the publication in the US
of the first Harry Potter book. Dozens of words and phrases were changed for
the American market, but ginger slipped through, as did snog (meaning 'to kiss
amorously') - though that has not proved so popular." I think this is one of
the correctly described mechanisms for the spread of British terms into
American English. The Harry Potter novels are wildly popular here in the
United States, and as I recall the later novels (which were published
simultaneously worldwide to prevent pirate editions) were less edited to match
United States usage than the earlier United States editions of the novels.

"The use of university, rather than college or school, for example, may well
be used by Americans to make sure they are understood outside the country." I
definitely consciously use the term "university" (which was the proper name
for my undergraduate institution of higher education) when I want to be
understood by Canadians, who don't read "college" with the same implication as
Americans do

Here in Minnesota, anyone can regularly hear BBC broadcasts by rebroadcasting
on Minnesota Public Radio, and there are other parts of the United States
where BBC is available over the air, besides much of British broadcasting
being available over the Internet.

For college-educated adults, a great way to pick up interesting bits of
British usage in English is reading The Economist, one of my favorite sources
for new submissions here to HN. For many young people across the United
States, one big source of exposure to (regional) British speech is
participation in youth soccer programs, which are often coached by British
expatriates.

For all that, we would have to describe the expected future path of English to
be further koineization, with more simplification of structure and worldwide
spread of useful words and phrases, as an astounding variety of mash-ups of
second-language speakers use English as an interlanguage all over the world.
In other words, sometimes the American way of speaking will join the pattern
of world English, and sometimes the British, and no doubt sometimes Caribbean
or African or south Asian or southeast Asian varieties of English will join in
as well.

~~~
Gormo
The "university" vs. "college" usage in America is also influenced by the
increasing trend of local community colleges initiating four-year degree
programs and dropping the word "community" from their names.

Despite offering a limited set of bachelor's degrees, these schools are still
regarded as somewhat low in prestige, so those who obtained their bachelor's
degrees from more traditional institutions have begun to emphasize the
difference by saying "university" instead of "college".

IIRC, the distinction in usage arose from the fact that when the first
"institutions of higher learning" were founded in America, they were initially
quite small, and intended to merge together into larger universities as
additional institutions were subsequently founded; instead the individual
colleges ended up expanding as independent institutions and ultimately
dividing themselves into multiple "departments". It wasn't until the 19th
century that the term "university" began to be used by American institutions.

------
diazamet
I think in British English it is more common to say 'best before date' rather
than 'sell-by date'.

One 'Britishisation' I wish the US would get is 'I couldn't care less',
meaning I care about some thing as little as possible, yet in the US they
insist on say 'I could care less' which makes no sense.

~~~
freehunter
I don't think that's British vs American, that's more proper grammar vs
improper grammar. You wouldn't hear anyone of any stature seriously trying to
suggest that "could care less" is American English. My opinion is that it's
one of those things people hear spoken more than they see written and the
tendency to say "could'n care less" (without the hard stop on the 't'). Kind
of like something I see on HN quite often, "kind've".

~~~
nollidge
It's got nothing to do with grammar. "I could care less" is a perfectly
grammatical sentence - it follows all the rules of English sentence
construction. Similarly, "colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is also
perfectly grammatical, it just doesn't make any semantic sense.

~~~
dpark
And so we move from discussing pedantic points of language to discussing
tangential points that are even more pedantic. :)

~~~
nollidge
If we're going to talk about language, then it's far from pedantic to insist
on using it properly while doing so.

~~~
dpark
I was poking fun, but complaining about the use of the word "grammar" here is
quite pedantic. Swapping the word "grammar" for something more strictly
correct would have yielded no improvement to the conversation.

~~~
nollidge
> would have yielded no improvement to the conversation

thats true freehunter didnt need to use the most best word in order to get
acrost the course grain jyst of his thaughts but at sum point the lak of exact
language use does become a hinderance to smoothe discorse and i guess id
rather air on the side of accurasy and preciseness and ask the same of others
even if that meens i risk being thaught a pedant

~~~
dpark
Yes, that's exactly what the conversation looked like when he said "grammar"
instead of "semantics". I'm glad you've saved us from such dereliction of
discourse.

------
droithomme
I have acquired many of these by means of exchanging email with British
customers. It's nothing worth getting anyone's knickers in a twist about, I
rather fancy some of the phrases. Cheers.

------
jacques_chester
There's also the distinct English dialects spoken in the various former
colonies. These tend to more closely follow the original English and so, by
way of analogy with a certain international institution, people talk about
Commonwealth English.

It's interesting how the entire shape of Australian English was set by the
early settlers -- you can still distinct dialects of Strine spoken in
different parts of the country. Or the way that the vowel-lotto that New
Zealanders play with "Unglush" has a lot to do with the heavy settlement of NZ
by Scots.

I guess eventually we'll all speak the same English. It'll give the French
something even bigger to hate. _Manifique_.

~~~
Gmo
I know it was a tongue in the cheek comment, but if you want to attack the
"French", try to at least do it correctly.

It is "magnifique".

~~~
jacques_chester
Quelle horreur, my mother will be mortified.

(I know I am)

------
smcl
There's a good semi-serious rant by comedian Brian Limond on the reverse
(though I have a feeling that there are plenty of other rants on this topic):

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnGPgCVJUsI>

I would claim not to mind it, but when I think for a minute I realise that the
spelling of various words like "fibre" annoy me, as well as the mm/dd/yy
format (and "November 15th" instead of "November the 15th"), and describing
football/sports teams as "it" instead of "they" (i.e. "Real Madrid is on an
amazing run of form" vs "Real Madrid are on an amazing run of form").

~~~
iuguy
I really wanted to like Limmy's show, I really did, but after 3 episodes I
found I'd barely laughed, and even then only at Deedee's overanalysis of what
the hardest item in his kitchen was.

~~~
smcl
Yeah some of the sketches are a bit tough, but overall I like him. His twitter
is ridiculous though, worth following for at least a week or so - you'll see
what I mean.

------
grose
"Unlike in the UK, there is no anti-ginger prejudice in the US, she says -
Americans think of warm, comforting things like gingerbread."

As someone who grew up in America (with not ginger, but slightly reddish hair)
I find this to very untrue. There's even a whole South Park episode* making
fun of gingers, and there's few things more American than that. Maybe it's a
relatively new thing, but I doubt many young Americans think of warm ginger
bread.

* [http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e11-ginger-...](http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e11-ginger-kids)

~~~
nollidge
The gingerbread comment is silly, but I think that any supposed anti-ginger
prejudice in the U.S. is firmly tongue-in-cheek. I don't think I've ever heard
anyone _seriously_ disparage red-haired people here.

------
dpark
> _The same thing might be influencing a trend that Yagoda has spotted for
> Americans to use the day, month, year format for dates - 26/9/12 rather than
> 9/26/12._

Is this actually happening? I see YY(YY)/MM/DD sometimes (that's what I use,
albeit with hyphens), but I've never seen an American use DD/MM/YY in the US.

~~~
kbenson
My wife always rolls her eyes when I fill out forms with dates in YYYY-MM-DD
(ISO 8601) format. I feel it's my duty to help in this small way to liberate
people from crappy date formats. :)

For electronic record keeping, the benefits over the American standard of
m/d/yy or the British standard of d/m/yy are plain.

~~~
dpark
My wife doesn't seem to care too much, though I think she's asked me about it
before. The big benefit is that it's nonambiguous. No one is going to see
YYYY-MM-DD and be confused about the date (YY-MM-DD is a different story for
at least a few more months). Natural sorting in electronic systems is a huge
plus, though.

~~~
Vivtek
My wife is Hungarian, and so does YY-MM-DD anyway. (Although rolls her eyes
that the MM isn't a Roman numeral.)

------
Vivtek
What disappoints me most about this article, though, is that it failed to
point out _why_ this is happening. More than any time in history, people using
different dialects of English are in regular, day-to-day contact on the
Internet. We may not share time zones (especially those crazy Aussies) but
it's telling that we turn out to like each other a lot, and trade our favorite
words and insults.

So in closing, the authors of the article are a bunch of wankers.

~~~
mc32
What a naff article. That girl in Gilligan's island wasn't called "ginger" for
nothing.

Sodders!

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vacri
I wonder if there'll be agreement on 'irony'. In British English, the ironic
happening must necessarily be unintentional. It doesn't have to be unknown,
just go against the intentions of the act (eg: an anticrime bill that the beat
police know will raise crime)

In contrast, Americans often use 'irony' in an intentional manner. Selecting
an ironic t-shirt to wear. Or the phrase that clued me into this: "The
photographer has arranged the model's foot ironically".

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itsmequinn
You mean Britishization? USA USA

