
India’s civil servant exam - kareemm
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/09/07/are-you-smart-enough-to-pass-indias-civil-servant-exam-no.html
======
thewarrior
This exam is possibly one of the most difficult in the world. You need an
almost encyclopaedic knowledge of history, geography, economics and everything
in between and the ability to marshal all those facts to answer a question
like :

"The internet is a manifestation of Max Weber's iron cage of rationality.
Discuss"

In just 10-15 minutes.

Here's a question paper :
[http://www.upsc.gov.in/questionpaper/2013/CSM%202013/GS%20I....](http://www.upsc.gov.in/questionpaper/2013/CSM%202013/GS%20I.pdf)

And

[http://www.upsc.gov.in/questionpaper/2013/CSM%202013/GS%20I....](http://www.upsc.gov.in/questionpaper/2013/CSM%202013/GS%20I.pdf)

And this is just one of the subjects. You have papers on English, an Indian
language and also a paper on your subject of specialization and more ..

Some people question the merits of choosing civil servants based on such an
exam but getting through a pretty impressive feat. I'd compare it to being a
polymath Jeopardy champion or something. I'm pretty sure Indian Civil Servants
are among the sharpest in the world.

In terms of effectiveness however , our bureaucracy is amongst the worst.
Quite the paradox.

~~~
balladeer
As someone with quite some civil servants (IAS (admin), IFS (foreign), and IPS
(police)) in close circles (mostly acquaintances and alumni) I would beg to
differ, not much, but would differ nonetheless.

It's not that much about sharpness as much it's about rot learning. As a
matter of fact civil services is one of those important Indian institutions
that has retained the idea of rot learning as a measure of one's ability in
all rounds of life. So the bureaucracy being worst is not at all a paradox.
It's a result of a failed method of recruitment coupled with other
institutional and social handicaps like systematic corruption and general
greed (in most cases barring rare exceptions) as the solve motive of these
candidates.

Go to Delhi's Mukherji Nagar area (centred around Batra Cinema) and you'll see
thousands of youth (some already past their youth) toiling the midnight oil
mugging volumes with no interest in any of those subjects whatsoever and many
of these midnight oil toilers would be declared "crème de la crème" of our
country around the middle of every year and with that result would come a
lifetime of power, its abuse, and other largesses in life that mere mortals of
this large country can't even dream of. Actually some of those luxuries would
be unattainable to even the moneybags of India.

If you go to them as an interviewer from a newspaper (either before or after
their success/failure) you'll get all the grandiose ideas they have for the
mother nation and why they are going towards this path of being a civil
servant "sacrificing" their lives. On the other hand if you are a friend or
family, you'll hear on dinner tables, during smoke breaks "Aah, I should have
taken IRS (revenue) and not waited for IPS/IAS last year; there's enough money
right there" and right then maybe the father intercepts, "that's what I was
saying. Look at Sharma Ji, he recently bought 3 flats in <insert a posh
locality in India>". Needless to say Sharma Ji is an IRS officer. You get the
drift.

As a side note, I would like to add that I have seen honest ones "turn" just
for survival. I am not giving them any brawny points for at least trying
before corrupting, but I can't blame them either seeing the precedences[1].

[1] [http://www.siliconindia.com/news/general/7-Civil-Servants-
Wh...](http://www.siliconindia.com/news/general/7-Civil-Servants-Who-Paid-
Heavily-for-Being-Honest-nid-180346-cid-1.html) "indian civil servants killed"
gets a lot more results on google.

~~~
chiph
So, they spend all that time cramming for the exam, and presumably pass it and
enter the civil service. Is there any requirement for follow-on and continuing
education? Because I can see that if someone does all that learning, but then
just _stops_ , that could be a problem.

~~~
zunlun
They are put through a rigorous program at the National academy of
administration before entering service. Considered to be an extremely fine
institution.

~~~
chiph
What about 15 years later? Things in the world have changed. Are they required
to stay current with the changes, or do they continue to work using old
information?

~~~
balladeer
As I've said earlier - it's an "enter one, you are set for life" job. After
the interview, which is the last stage in selection, you are set. Even the
training is not somewhere people are rejected.

------
vshan
On similar lines is the Joint Entrance Exam (or JEE), the entrance test for
admission into the Indian Institutes of Technology (and a toned-down version
for admission into less selective institutes).

This year over 13 lakhs, or 1.3 million students appeared for the exam.

Being an applicant in the past year, I can state for a fact that the last pre-
Uni year is one of the most stressful years for an Indian student aspiring to
go into tech.

Sample JEE question paper:
[http://jeeadv.iitb.ac.in/sites/default/files/2013p1.pdf](http://jeeadv.iitb.ac.in/sites/default/files/2013p1.pdf)

[http://jeeadv.iitb.ac.in/sites/default/files/2013p2.pdf](http://jeeadv.iitb.ac.in/sites/default/files/2013p2.pdf)

Source: [http://indiatoday.intoday.in/education/story/jee-
main-2015-n...](http://indiatoday.intoday.in/education/story/jee-
main-2015-number-of-aspirants-appearing-for-the-exam/1/413277.html)

------
simula67
The author does not pose the most important question.

Do we need the brightest minds in India doing foreign affairs ? Or should they
be entrepreneurs, scientists, engineers and politicians ?

~~~
free
With a population of more than a billion I think India has enough bright minds
available for all of them.

Also, with India trying to increase its influence and assertiveness in global
affairs having bright people in foreign affairs seems a good thing to happen.

~~~
witty_username
> With a population of more than a billion I think India has enough bright
> minds available for all of them.

Nope, most people aren't educated fully.

~~~
free
India has a literacy rate of 90% as of 2015[1], so I think the point holds.

1\. [http://www.uis.unesco.org/DataCentre/Pages/country-
profile.a...](http://www.uis.unesco.org/DataCentre/Pages/country-
profile.aspx?code=IND&regioncode=40535)

~~~
notahacker
There's a bit more to being well educated than basic literacy though, and it's
only among the young that literacy almost reaches 90%

Your link also notes that there are 255 million illiterate people in India,
which is around the _total_ population of the world's fourth most populous
country.

------
trextrex
One hypothesis that I have to explain why India is doing reasonably well in
terms of economic growth in spite of the pervasive corruption is that the
civil services, full of really really smart and driven people, are getting
things done, and done right, in spite of the incompetence and disinterest of
politicians.

Or maybe I've been watching one too many episodes of "Yes Minister".

------
brudgers
This makes getting funded by YC look relatively less daunting and positively
straight to the point.

------
chki
Isn't it an enormous task to correct all these tests? If there are actually
500k+ applicants that write a three hour test with up to 5k words, that would
probably take a staggering amount of man hours.

~~~
garrettgrimsley
The 500,000 initial applicants take a preliminary test that consists solely of
multiple choice questions. [0] This year only 15,000 applicants passed on to
the second round of testing. [1]

[0]
[http://www.webcitation.org/604rj8vNB](http://www.webcitation.org/604rj8vNB)

[1] [https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/09/07/are-you-
smart-...](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/09/07/are-you-smart-enough-
to-pass-indias-civil-servant-exam-no.html)

~~~
chki
ok, thanks.

------
known
I'm told that UPSC discriminates BC/SC/ST aspirants for 300 marks in Personal
Interview; Govt must ban personal interviews in all its recruitment;

------
al2o3cr
It's like the F2P/IAP dynamic but in real life - "here's an incredibly
difficult grind to get where you want to go. Or, you can slip me a few bucks
and make this all go away..."

