
Poor Sleep Gives You the Munchies, Study Says - hvo
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/05/science/sleep-eating-craving-food.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=wide&state=standard&contentPlacement=4&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F03%2F05%2Fscience%2Fsleep-eating-craving-food.html&eventName=Watching-article-click
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ergothus
One thing that doesn't get a lot of attention is the _quality_ of sleep, not
just the duration.

After years of being a fairly thin kid and teen, I start packing on the
pounds. When I saw an allergist and got on allergy shots (plus antihistamines,
plus HEPA filters, plus dust mite covers on the mattress) my world changed. I
wasn't tired all the time. Everything was brighter, and I was in a better
mood. I wanted to snack less and had more energy.

Piecing it together over the last few years, I had near-constant drainage in
the back of my throat even when I wasn't showing stronger allergy symptoms
(e.g. itchiness, sneezing, watery eyes). As a result, I slept poorly even when
I was getting plenty of hours of sleep.

Now, I'm allergic to pretty much everything that doesn't kill you (no food
allergies, but dust, mold, our cats...) so I can't call this a solved problem,
but knowing about it lets me work on solving it.

~~~
ameen
I'd love to know more. How long is this process of determining allergies, etc?

Did you go back to your ideal body weight, BMI and body composition wise? Was
weight-loss easier?

How did this affect you psychologically? Did you get rid of depression, mood-
swings, etc?

~~~
ergothus
An allergist can give you a "scratch test", where they put a grid on your back
and/or arms, and prick each spot with a needle dipped in various common
allergens. If the spot swells like a bug bite, congrats, you're allergic! They
usually* hit you once, then do another round at 10x concentration on a
different spot for anything that didn't visibly, react, and then a third round
for any stragglers at 100x. They rate your sensitivity on a 0-4 scale, based
on the highly technical technique of measuring the size of the welt/bump.

*I've had it done twice, once on the east coast US, once on the west coast. They use local allergen blends so they can differ, and there are some candidates that they don't normally test for. I had to specifically request they test for "rat" the first time, as my fiancee had pet rats. (Turns out I was highly, HIGHLY allergic to them, but I reacted to basically everything). This does mean if you're allergic to something not in their normal regimen it will be missed.

The whole test took about 30 minutes.

After the first such test, I adopted anti-allergen mattress/pillow covers for
dust mite dust and HEPA filters in the apartment, but didn't do much else.
When I moved, I went from a terrible allergy place (Richmond, VA, where
springtime puddles are often yellow from the pollen) to a much better one
(Seattle, WA, which has molds, but far fewer pollens).

I had a pretty terrible time after the move though, and after a visit to
another allergist I got on allergy shots (my research said that Europe will do
doses under the tongue, but the US doesn't). Surprisingly, both allergists
(Richmond and Seattle) were reluctant to put me on allergy shots, as if the
cost was prohibitive ($1k-$2k/year without insurance. I've switch insurances a
few times and the costs have been from fully covered to ~$15/mo) but I find
happiness to be worth it. The shots themselves are, surprisingly, actually
diluted doses of the allergen, ramping up the concentration. I like to joke
I'm becoming immune to iocane powder.

Switching coasts messed up my progress, and I'm still working on controlling
my weight, but then again, I still have multiple cats despite being allergic
to them (my now-wife's happiness factors in, but she totally got rid of the
rats). I have swing periods - I tend to lose weight in the spring/summer, then
develop a cough that leads to seasonal bronchitis (= more drainage) that lasts
3-4 months in the fall/winter (had pneumonia once - I don't recommend it.) I
recently discovered that, um, recently legalized edible substances in seattle
taken before bed have prevented this months-long cough, so I'm working to see
what happens this year.

Psychologically, though, the impact has been huge. I went from being a
homebody that was basically tired all the time to someone that, though still
lazy, will actually go out and do things and be willing to endure some
exercise and effort. I snacked often, and craved sugar. (I suspect the latter
was for the feeling of energy - I had already cut caffeine from my diet to try
and improve the quality of my sleep). Now I still enjoy a soda now and then
but water is fine and my portion sizes have gone down. The last few years,
whenever the annual cough came around I started to get really exhausted by
month 2, and it made me very resigned over the season. This year I avoided
that and I can definitely feel the psychological benefits of not being worn
down like that, and expect that I'll be losing more weight and being healthier
over the next few months, but time will tell.

When I first went (with the rats), I had spent 6 months in a funk. It had
gotten to the point where I would simply sleep through my alarm clock, and
when I was awake I was extremely groggy. The effect was gradual, so I didn't
really realize something environmental had changed until I compared myself
then to myself months prior.

I've avoided going to a sleep therapist because I suspect they'll simply say
"Sleep apnea" and call it a day without examining the real reason, but as soon
as I'm out of other variables to tinker with that will be my next stop. As it
is, I'm currently on allergy shots (administered in their office weekly,
requiring 30 mins for them to make sure I don't have complications, until I
hit maintenance levels, then it's monthly), I take two benadryl and an allegra
before bed, and recently added a cookie to that mix. I also have a nasal
thing, though I've not had that for the past 6 months due to insurance
complications.

The hardest part at this point is controlling my environment when I'm not in
control of it. I have a wife, cats, and my mother currently living with us. I
can't just decide to eat only when I'm hungry (I am the main cook in the
family), I can't decide how late to stay up, and I can't control the
accumulation of stuff (and therefore dust). [Well, that's the "hardest" part
since I've already decided to not try and become a gym nut, so I'm avoiding
the parts that are hard because of me :)]

Hope that offered some of the detail you were looking for.

~~~
ameen
Thanks a ton that was more than what I'd been looking for. I'm sure many of us
would love if you were to blog about this somewhere, this bio-hacking sounds
really great and I'm looking forward to getting my tests drawn up as I've had
terrible issues that have impacted my professional life.

I've been planning to get started on Keto for a while but had been worried if
it would affect my NAFLD, I also have depression and concentration issues.

------
chishaku
Get good sleep and drink water.

Two of the simplest pieces of advice that can go a really long way for your
mental and physical health.

~~~
guelo
Is there solid research around water intake? Are there clear thresholds for
the amount of water to experience the health benefits? Is 8 cups a day backed
up by any research? What exactly are the health benefits?

I've always thought that my body should be able to tell me when it needs more
water and I shouldn't need to force down extra water.

~~~
Swizec
Don't overthink it. Have water available at your desk. When it's empty, refill
it.

Make it easy to drink automatically. Your body knows when it feels like having
a sip, if that doesn't involve breaking your mental flow, you will have the
sip. Simple as that.

There's a world of difference between being dehydrated and a bit thirsty. Try
going to the beach for a day and forgetting to bring any water. You'll know
the difference in a few hours.

The fun part is that you'll feel tired all day and all of next day too. I've
done this way too often in various combinations (roadtrips, plane flights,
marathon runs, surfing and forgetting to bring water, etc.)

------
JustSomeNobody
I thought this was understood for a long time. One of the TOP pieces of advice
for anyone wanting to lose weight has, as far as I can remember, been to get
adequate amounts of sleep.

~~~
zzalpha
The fact that lack of sleep correlates with obesity has been known for a long
time, but this study is about an underlying mechanism that might explain that
correlation.

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bcheung
I thought this was already well known.

To clarify, the effect of insufficient sleep is more generic than that. Lack
of sleep will weaken your willpower and has a cascading effect on your life.

* You will be more prone to overeat and eat junk food.

* You will not want to exercise.

* You will have difficulty concentrating.

* You will be more likely to give into temptations.

* You less be less likely to do things you need to do but don't want to do.

------
aidos
I've had one of those crazy weeks that I haven't had for a long time – up
until 5-6 in the morning and then back at it again a few hours later.

There were times where I almost forgot to eat and then would suddenly find
myself starving. A lot of the time I ended up raiding the house for chocolate
and other munchy food. I was surprised by the behaviour but put it down to the
lack of sleep.

Anecdotal, but I definitely noticed the low sleep = munchy behaviour in myself
this week.

~~~
endemic
As the father of newborn twins, I concur.

~~~
aidos
Congratulations!

Your first kids? I have 2 little girls and I find they help me focus the time
I have to be productive. Having said that, I had a friend with twins and every
time I saw her she looked like she hadn't slept in days. "Relentless" was her
description. Good luck :-)

------
hollander
Poor sleep results in stress, and to relieve stress, eating is a good remedy.
Good in the sense that it seems to work, but it's not healthy. Doing a short
workout is probably a lot healthier, but well, you're tired, and doing a
workout is not high on the list for most of us.

~~~
ep103
During sleep is also when your body prepares fat / food to convert into blood
sugar.

You literally get tired at the end of the day, when you run out of energy
that's easily convertible to blood sugar, so your blood sugar levels start
dropping, making you tired.

If you don't get enough sleep at night, your body doesn't have enough time to
prep your food / fat for conversion into blood sugar. As a result, your blood
sugar starts dropping way too early in the day.

Since your blood sugar is dropping too far, but its too early to go to sleep,
your body looks for other solutions, basically: "Get your blood sugar up now!"
So you feel a desire to eat, and often, foods your body associates with either
high amounts of calories and simple sugars.

Hence, munchies. And weight gain.

Source: I'm hypoglycemic, this is my life. Slight disclaimers as to the
specifics of the above, but the processes described are correct.

~~~
gohrt
By that logic, we should sleep instead of eating breakfast.

~~~
tdkl
There's no logic about breakfast beside being told by Kellogg's to eat it, so
there's that.

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ra1n85
I would imagine that in some cases this eventually leads to obesity, which
then becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. Those with obesity are more likely to
have sleep apnea, which disturbs sleep even further.

~~~
BurningFrog
Mercifully, the cycle ends with the eternal sleep of death.

~~~
spoiler
Maybe this was intended as a joke, but the sad truth is that more often that
not, sometimes people consider this option. I myself came relatively close to
committing suicide, but was pulled out of this vicious cycle by a friend.

A lot of people develop this depression this way, or they became this way
because of depression. It's concerning that people often underestimate
depression and consider it a synonym for sadness or melancholy. Depression
is—for the sake of simplification—an emotional and mental cancer.

------
Glyptodon
I already knew this as it's been so massively self evident in my life. (Not
that this is really a constructive comment, but every time I don't get enough
sleep I'm ravenous all day.)

------
panzagl
And one of the side effects of being overweight? You don't sleep as well.

~~~
mycroft-holmes
Gotta start at the source.

------
herbst
Fuck, and i thought it was the Weed the whole time!

------
300bps
_Fourteen healthy, non-obese subjects between the ages of 18 and 30
participated in the study._

Is this a representative sample warranting this level of attention?

 _Subjects who were deprived of sleep said that they felt hungrier, and had
more trouble controlling themselves when faced with the snacks. They ended up
consuming nearly twice as much fat and protein as the control group._

So people who were awake more ate more. This would seem to make sense - I have
literally never eaten while I was asleep.

------
brad_matheson
Poor sleep makes me feel ego depleted which I read about in Daniel Kahneman's
Thinking, Fast and Slow

~~~
stygiansonic
This happens with me as well. Thanks for the book recommendation, I will have
to add that to my reading list!

------
intrasight
Is the reverse likely also true: munchies will give you poor sleep?

~~~
ufukbay
I think almost anything (depending on the amount) you eat before going to
sleep will make it difficult for your body to relax because your stomach will
be processing the food.

Lately I try to avoid eating a lot after around 8pm.

~~~
intrasight
I am trying (not succeeding yet) to do the same

------
danesparza
Wow -- I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the size of the study is only 14
subjects. This seems incredibly small!

------
macjohnmcc
I slept poorly last night for the first time in a while and I've been starving
all day.

------
amelius
What types of food were the subjects craving for?

------
oldmanjay
Ignorance is not a terribly compelling way to make a point. The answer in this
case is to reflect upon why you don't understand that the world is not solely
composed of you.

~~~
EC1
You're reaching way too far into it. I don't understand the _mentality_ from
peers in similar life situations as me that are "so busy they barely sleep".
To me that just means bad time management, because no matter how busy you are
(all assuming you have free will, it's your will to be busy) you still have
room for great sleep every night. "I barely get any sleep" becomes a
substitute to reap the gratification from peers as if you actually
accomplished something.

~~~
oldmanjay
No, it seems I reached exactly to the right depth. Clarifying the extent of
your ignorance doesn't make it something other than ignorance. No one is
required to explain their mindset to you, and your opinion on it is not really
productive.

------
JohnBooty
Oh, that's easy to fix!

Sleep deprivation only gives you the munchies _at first._

Just sleep _so little_ that you actually feel sick, and food no longer seems
appealing! For added effect, drink _so much coffee to stay awake_ that your
stomach hurts.

Not that I am currently doing this or anything.

(Never again.)

~~~
stordoff
> Just sleep so little that you actually feel sick, and food no longer seems
> appealing!

Is this a common thing? I've been awake for 110 hours before, and was a mess
at the end of it, but definitely felt more hungry than usual for the entire
period.

------
heldrida
That's not true. I've been working hard on my side projects after work time
and I don't have much sleep unfortunatley. I feel exausted all the time and
not exactly hungry, plus to be honest I lost appetite. I'm quite skinny, lean
muscle, etc.

~~~
EC1
I never understood how people don't get sleep. Isn't it a net negative to be
dragged through the mud? No matter how rough my day is I _always_ make sure to
get 8-9 hours of sleep. The world can wait for me you know? Yeah, sorry Boss,
I went out drinking Sunday and I'm coming in at 1pm, too bad.

High energy all day with less time, or low energy all day with more time? I
think the latter is worse.

~~~
Raphmedia
I sleep 5 hours a night.

Even with flexible working hours, I still come to work in the early morning.

I work all day and then commute back home. I then do the chores and make
supper.

By the time I am done with all that stuff, it's already 8PM or 9PM. I then get
together with some night owls friends for a few beers, read all night, watch a
movie or a tv show, or spend the night awake talking with my signifiant other
(who is also a night owl).

If I have a really entertaining night, I might drop to 3 hours of sleep.

I don't have an energy problem and am wide awake. That being said, I have been
living that way for as long as I can remember. I take naps when I do get
tired.

~~~
matwood
Some people actually need less sleep. I think this has been studied. A couple
years ago there were a bunch of articles about Kobe Bryant and how little
sleep he needs while practicing polyphasic sleep patterns.

