
Ask HN: How do you deal with getting older? - dreifi
As hackers, do you feel like you can hack life and get more years out of it then the average joe?<p>Or do you feel lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming up the next big thing?
======
codingdave
Honestly, I feel like I've outgrown the whole "dreaming up the next big
thing." I know my dreams. I am already following them.

I feel like the younger folk tend to re-invent ideas that have come and gone,
and don't do enough research to see what has come before. They spin their
wheels figuring out things that us older folk already know. Sure, they do it
with newer toolkits than I know, and that is why I keep up on HN - because the
newer technologies are where the younger crowd can teach me something.

But I don't feel lost in the culture... I feel disinterested in it.

I also think that being older, with a family, and a full life outside of work,
I'm not interested in pursuing wealth the same way that young people are. I
have a nest egg, I have a good salary, I also have a wife, children, a small
farm that we run, mountains, deserts and oceans to explore, stars to look at,
etc.

I am no longer 23 and trying to establish my life. I am 43, have built a life
that works for me, and am far more concerned with raising my children than
with raising my wealth. To me wealth is binary - you have enough to live your
life, or you do not. At the moment, I do.

So can I hack life to get more out of it? I think I already have.

~~~
habitue
I agree people reinvent the wheel all the time, but instead of seeing it as
something naive people do, I see it as fertile earth that genuinely new things
can grow from.

I feel like "young developers reinvent what we already had 30 years ago" kind
of ennui gets espoused here on HN a lot. To me, this is less wisdom gleaned
from experience and more a preference based on shifting priorities. There's
nothing wrong with not being interested in new shiny stuff, but there's also
nothing wrong with being interested in it.

~~~
scott_karana
> and that is why I keep up on HN - because the newer technologies are where
> the younger crowd can teach me something.

------
modoc
I'm 35 and overall am feeling at the top of my game. I don't envy the 20 years
olds or feel lost. I've learned so much, not just technically but around user
and enterprise needs, inter-personal skills, and about myself since I was
18-20 that I absolutely feel better suited for success.

I've started eating right and working out, which has helped both body and
mind, and I've developed task and time management techniques that work for me.
While I admit my mind might not be 100% as quick as it was when i was 20, I do
feel remarkably more productive.

Although to be fair, I'm not in the SV ecosystem, and run my startup (although
after 8 years maybe not a startup any longer?) from outside of Boston (a
location where a strong business model still beats a profitless pitch deck),
so perhaps the environment is one reason I feel the way I do.

~~~
robotkilla
> my mind might not be 100% as quick as it was when i was 20

care to elaborate? I'm 34 and I keep hearing that my mind is supposed to slow
down but it hasn't yet. I drink 2 cups of coffee a day, don't smoke cigs, am
not overweight, try to go for a walk for 30 minutes minimum each day, go to
sleep by 9ish and am up by 3 or 4am. I also watch very little TV, read
regularly and push myself to learn new stuff on a near constant basis (python
> node > c# > cg within the space of the last 4 years, along with pixel art, a
bit of 3d art, loads of 3d programming + 2d game programming - all in addition
to being a web dev contractor).

The change I've seen in my brain as I've gotten older is that I seem to be
learning at an accelerated rate. However there are days when my depression or
stress gets the best of me and I have to just take half a day or so to "detox"
(binge watch netflix, play video games etc).

I wonder if some of the slow down people feel is artificially induced, or even
misperceived (it takes me longer to reply to questions, but that's because I'm
considering more answers or sifting through more knowledge that I have).

edit: Alzheimers / other brain related issues are absolutely terrifying to me
so I'm interested in understanding what people mean by slowing down
specifically... also there's a small part of me that worries I've slowed down
and just haven't noticed it yet.

~~~
modoc
For reference I drink 1-2 cups of tea most days, sometimes none. Have never
smoked, drank, or done drugs.

For me it's a couple areas I notice:

I have a more difficult time remembering names, specific words, etc...

I used to be able to do relatively difficult math problems in my head without
actually _thinking_ about it. Now I'm likely to use my phone to calculate
three digit+ sums.

I find it harder to get "in the zone".

~~~
sharmi
Maybe it's more to lack of exercising those specific skills? My language and
math skills were definitely better during college but then i don't use them as
much as I used too? This is something I would genuinely like to get an answer
for

------
randcraw
Amazing. For most of us, your career begins about 22 and ends about 72. So at
50 years, the midpoint would be 47. Yet most of the comments below start with,
"I'm 35 and...".

Jeez. At 35 you're still just a kid.

I'm 57 and I've _definitely_ seen brain changes. At 20 I could learn 80% of
new stuff in one pass. That ended by 35, when I had to take and review notes
to learn as well. Now at 57, I simply can't remember minutiae like I once
could. Proper nouns are especially tough to recall (famous names especially).
I don't retain entire 1000 LOC programs in my head any more.

Learning new computer languages still isn't too tough but breaking new ground
in math is. My ability to see multiple perspectives of a new concept all at
once is not what it once was. I have to work harder at concentrating and
distractions are more disruptive. I really _HATE_ working in an open space
without earplugs.

So yes, the brain ages. At age 50 I'll be much more impressed when you claim,
"Oh yeah, my brain hasen't lost a step since 20."

~~~
CuriouslyC
I would argue that the issue with math and perspectives isn't so much a
decrease in your raw brainpower, more like your brain has become more
"specialized" to the things you do very frequently. I'm sure there is a small
decrease in raw processing speed, but I expect the largest change is the
reduction in flexibility.

As for your reduction in memory/recall, one thing that can help is to learn
more diverse information. The connectivity of a network is a function of the
diversity of its inputs/outputs, and the more connected a network is, the
shorter the average path to any given node (in this case a memory).

------
pcmaffey
40 year olds today were the first generation to grow up with computers. 10
years ago, 40 year olds were "old" in computer parlance. The myth of the 20
year old hacker will go away over time, as more and more people grow up
immersed in technology (and thus possess the necessary skillset).

I would even go so far as to say that our culture's preoccupation with youth
presents an opportunity for disruptive ideas/startups, based in "wisdom and
experience."

~~~
bsenftner
Actually, that would be people in their early 50's. Born in '64, started
programming in '77.

~~~
Toenex
This reads like the start of a geek update to the classic Four Yorkshiremen
sketch
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1by0-nkKOTs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1by0-nkKOTs))

    
    
      "6502?"
      "Aye"
      "You were lucky.  There were 19 of us all crowded round a
       single Z80 processor with a hexadecimal display..."
      
      ...
      
      "Of course when I say keyboard I mean a 8 high voltage bootstrap
       connectors with rusty razorblades for switches.  But it was 
       a keyboard to us..."

------
sago
I can't write code nearly as fast as I used to. I am much better at writing
less code, though. And though it took a while (too long), I've figured out
that it's the code you _don 't_ write that makes you great. So I'm much more
skilled and competent as a 40 yo than I was as a precocious 20 year old.

The biggest change has been values though. My values and my criteria for
success are different now than they were when I founded my first business at
22. Now with a family, assets, residual income and a home, I'm far far more
interested in being interested than I am in numerical 'success', and much more
motivated by social justice. So I definitely don't have the hunger for startup
life. I don't feel lost in that culture. I just feel that I've been there, got
the t-shirt, and moved beyond, so I don't feel the need to go back for more
than the odd visit.

So yeah, maybe I'm getting over the hill in some ways. But that's not a bad
thing. I don't feel out-competed, I just feel like experience and perspective
have made me change what I value, both in code and in business (and other bits
of life: in relationships, in vacations, in hobbies, etc).

~~~
ak39

      I am much better at writing less code, though.
    

In other words, your thinking is organised.

Organisation is a skill you learn through experience. No other way. You can
attempt to teach a newcomer about the virtues of refactoring (basically
tidying up the kitchen after you've baked your masterpiece) but I can assure
you, the mind at early stages of doing new things is less interested in
tidying up the process than it is about seeing the exciting outcome.

That's by nature.

------
lavara
There's an (spanish) old saying that goes: The devil knows more because he's
old than he does because he's the devil. (Or Más sabe el diablo por viejo que
por diablo.) HTH.

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
Old sayings are so much better than young sayings.

~~~
spdionis
Agreed. In fact this sounded a lot better than "YOLO".

------
Nursie
Generally I wrinkle slightly more each year, moan about my joints seizing up
and grow more cynical.

On a more serious note I am becoming better at what I do because I understand
much more of pretty much everything in far greater depth than I used to. And
while I perhaps don't have the stamina or raw LoC output ability of a 21 year
old any more, I can usually achieve tasks much faster because I know what I'm
doing and I make fewer mistakes.

I'm definitely much more cynical about flavour of the week languages and
frameworks though. And I find it very funny that things get reinvented every
few years as a new generation decides some thing is too cumbersome (often SQL
or DMBSs) and needs to be thrown out, only to be slowly reinvented as all the
edge cases that lead to the abstraction are discovered...

And I'm only 36.

Career-wise, no discrimination noticed yet.

~~~
pmelendez
This... I have the same observation and coincidentially we have the same age
:)

~~~
logfromblammo
I'm just a tiny bit older, and I thought I noticed some age discrimination
last year. Do you both still have all your scalp hair?

~~~
pmelendez
I do still have my scalp hair :) but I have some friends that are bald since
early twenties so I don't think it is a major thing.

I don't and ever have worked in USA so it might be a cultural thing though.

------
jakejake
When I was young I told my friends that if they saw me in 20 years married and
not playing music full time to go ahead and punch me in the face. I honestly
thought that I would feel exactly the same at 40 that I did at 20.

At that age I probably would have looked at my older self and thought that I
had lost my passion, had sold out, become uncool, etc. It didn't occur to me
that I would still remember everything that I knew at 20, plus have another 20
years to figure out what actually is important to me and become twice as
confident and comfortable with myself.

I felt way more "lost" when I was 20 than I did at 40. I don't think I've
necessarily figured it all out. But, as much fun as I had when I was young, I
like my life more now.

------
rm_-rf_slash
I am less driven by the prospect of becoming an old expensive programmer, and
more concerned about missing out on gaining management experience. I have
conversed with many programmers who express concern that they have no
management aspirations, and yet the longer they remain pure programmers, they
find they have fewer options as they age, instead, as one might imagine, more.

Maybe it's because it's harder to convince a 40-year old programmer to work
bullshit hours for a few slices of free pizza.

------
ryandrake
As someone about to turn 40, it's creepy reading comment after comment here
and seeing A LOT to agree with.

Less lines of code per hour than when I was young: CHECK

More productive than when I was young: CHECK

Not reinventing wheels anymore: CHECK

Recognizing all the wheels I reinvented when I was young thinking I was so
clever: CHECK

Keeping up with new languages/tools/frameworks: CHECK

Skepticism at the people who think this new language/tool/framework is going
to CHANGE EVERYTHING: CHECK

Paying more attention to my health: CHECK

Hobbies outside of work: CHECK

A couple of things I disagree with though.

Employment opportunity:

I definitely am starting to see evidence of ageism. Job hopping is more
difficult, and the quality/appeal of available jobs is no longer what it used
to be. It's much harder to get the attention of recruiters now than it was 15
years ago, and I feel I'm at a negotiating disadvantage vs. younger people who
have no problem sleeping at their desks and subsisting on noodles and Mountain
Dew alone. Quite honestly, 90% of job postings I read are utterly
uninteresting to a 40 year old. Sometimes the company or product is boring,
uncompelling, or something I've already worked on. Sometimes the culture reeks
of bro-grammer. Or it's full of dog-whistle words that tell me I'll be working
80 hour weeks and not be compensated well for it.

Financial position:

Software engineering has not been very financially rewarding. I guess you can
always find someone and say, boy they're doing much better than I. I seem to
be permanently behind the people I knew who went into more lucrative careers.
I feel like I'm much less well established at 40 than my parents (who made
shit as school teachers) were when they were 40. The clock is ticking and I
feel it's going to run out before I'm able to retire. Time feels like a
predator, stalking me and waiting to devour me as punishment for not
making/saving enough.

~~~
logfromblammo
I can't find a single thing to disagree with.

Though my financial position might be worse, due to ill-timed property
purchases. Basically, the majority of my net worth was in real estate in 2007.
I have had to move multiple times to find sufficiently remunerative work for a
small family. So I'm just treading water now. I have been busting my ass for
16 years now, with literally _nothing_ to show for it. Everything I have ever
gained has been taken back, by circumstances beyond my control.

So when I see those Baby Boomers, retiring with nice, big nest eggs from
working 40 years at the same company, I just start to seethe in rage. They are
the ones who started pulling all the ladders up after climbing them.

I don't think it's just software. _Everyone_ born after the Baby Boomers is
worse off than their parents were at the same age. That generation just isn't
giving the same as they got, because they are such a large economic force,
they could get whatever they want. All I can say is that they had better fix
up the nursing homes while they still have the power to do so. Gen X and
Millennial won't have time to take care of them while still looking for new
jobs every 2-5 years.

------
jensnockert
I'm 25 and feels lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming
up the next big thing.

I don't think age is the important thing here, I have worked with people of
all ages (15-70 or so) that I look up to and learned a lot from. Experience is
important, and it is hard to have experienced a lot of things if you are 20.

On a semi-related note, all my best bosses have been parents, having kids seem
to teach you something about the value of time.

~~~
phkahler
>> On a semi-related note, all my best bosses have been parents, having kids
seem to teach you something about the value of time.

I once talked to an old (60) guy who was writing code down the aisle from me.
He said he tried management, but didn't want to mediate disputes between
children - he had his own at home. I thought his experience was probably
unusual, but I've asked a number of managers since then, and they all agree
that's an unfortunately large part of the job. I don't see it because they
keep it away from the team - as it should be. But then when I got my first
crack at "having a small team" I saw exactly the same thing. So yes, tech
skills are important but parenting can also be a relevant background ;-)

------
ffn
The same way you deal with getting older in any other profession, you learn to
accept that there will always be people better, faster, and younger than you,
embrace the fact that you suck, but still persevere in pushing forward at your
own best pace. You strip away the pride (i.e. the feeling that you somehow
deserve / need to win, to be the next big thing, to change the world, to be
loved / respected by everyone, to do better than your old high school
classmates, and to do it all in your teens and twenties) that covers the
youthfully inexperienced. And you accept that the most you can do is put
yourself on the path that you can enjoy and that you hope is right and commit
to walking down it clad in nothing more than simple stupid faith that
eventually you can get it to work.

Non-purple TL;DR: I deal with it by abandoning any sense of pride / shame I
might've had.

------
scotch_drinker
Your comment seems to bridge two things: hacking life and staying relevant in
technology. For the former, I'm 42 and doing just fine. I try to keep up with
the latest trends though I don't buy into everything just to keep my sanity. I
write as much code as I can. I've learned though that someone who listens with
empathy and attempts to understand a business' problems will always be
relevant.

For the former, I read a lot on diet, nutrition and exercise. I believe in 50
years, we will look back at the time when our diets were largely based on
sugary carbohydrates and wonder what the hell we were thinking. I experiment
with fasting. I do different kinds of exercises. We don't have total control
over our health but so many of us make regular poor decisions that even tiny
improvements have to help. Of course, I could walk out in front of a bus
tomorrow but attempting to improve each day goes a long way.

From a health perspective, I subscribe to Nassim Taleb's idea of reduction
instead of addition. High cholesterol? Don't start taking statins, start
eliminating things like sugar and processed carbs and wheat. High blood
pressure? Don't add blood pressure medicine, try exercising regularly, don't
smoke, eat vegetables. Etc, etc.

Long story longer, if all you do technology and health wise is exactly what
everyone else has always done or always told you to do, you'll get what
everyone else has always gotten. True, experimenting and hacking may not help
at all but there is plenty of evidence out there that walking a different path
can get you different results.

------
bischofs
Why do you have to be 20 to be doing something interesting? Also why is it
assumed that every new innovation that some 20 year old ivy league drop comes
up with is good for our society and our culture? To me most start ups are just
superfluous, these apps and such are created just to make our lives slightly
more convenient in most cases, they rarely improve the human condition or
outlook. Go ahead and glorify the startup culture but I have more respect for
the grizzled old devs that have created the foundation we stand on today and
the people moving things forward incrementally.

~~~
joesmo
You don't. Many successful startups are started by people over 30
([http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/235357](http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/235357)).

------
allsystemsgo
Friend of mine just got hired at Apple to work on HealthKit and he's over 40.
I don't understand why everyone is so preoccupied with their age.

~~~
VLM
SV has been funding the Mom 2.0 bubble where 20 yr olds provide Mom services
to other wealthy urban 20 yr olds for a generally rather large fee. Look at
startups that boil down to "Mom can you drive me to the mall" "Mom can you get
me a sandwich" "Mom can you do the laundry" "Mom can you adjust the
thermostat" "Mom can I crash in your livingroom overnight when I'm in town"
"Mom can you mail me a monthly care package" etc. Not all startups in the
current bubble are Mom 2.0 but enough are to make it a cultural thing.

Anyway the point of extreme youth focus in the Mom 2.0 bubble is it makes
sense when you're 20 and urban and rich and have never lived away from home
(aka mom 1.0), but once you're 40 and you have become the Mom (err, Dad, or
whatever), then it's kind of a hard sell and you're just not going to fit in
with the biz model.

There is also a mythology that kids will lock on to branding for their entire
life, so the most popular group to sell to is kids. It doesn't work, of
course, but its a very popular mythology and highly politically incorrect to
question it. If it actually worked of course, I'd spend my lunch hour driving
my Segway around to play Pog games in between gaming sessions on the
Colecovision or something like that.

------
hipsterrific
I'm 35 and I'm not at all complaining. Career wise, I've not only learned more
technically but it seems like I'm learning better/faster these days than 10+
years ago. On a personal note, it's nice to know I'm established with a decent
amount in my savings and retirement.

With friends, most of my friends are younger but it's nice to be able to
partner with them and go through life shoulder to shoulder. It's nice to know
that I have the means to be able to help people too, that alone gives me much
satisfaction and contentment.

The nice thing is, 35 seems to be a starting point for me. I've got a long way
to go and I'm re-evaluating my options. I used to think that getting older
meant that I would regret not having accomplished the goals I had in my youth
but now, I see it as refining my goals and I'm walking into things with far
more experience and knowledge which means more than just "getting it done" but
"getting it done, well."

~~~
joesmo
"The nice thing is, 35 seems to be a starting point for me."

Nice. I'm 34, almost 35, and I feel the same way. I'm actually seriously
thinking about starting a business now whereas in my twenties, I was more
interested in leisure activities. Definitely seems like a much better time to
start something than when I was younger.

------
dpcan
To me, it seems lots of the "big ideas" dreamed up by the 20-year-olds seem to
only cater to the 20-year-olds. I'm upper 30's, lots of kids, married a long
time. Too much of the new stuff doesn't interest me. Maybe I'm just bored of
it all.

I felt a little more comfortable doing what I do when I was younger, but
mostly because I had tons of energy, no fear, and little to lose.
Responsibility has made me move much slower. Plus, I've made mistakes, learned
from them, and now fear the thought of new problems.

Also, I used to think about business 24/7\. Sleep 4 hours a night. Work
because I loved it so much. I couldn't keep up with the new ideas, and I had
to implement them ALL or I was a mess!

Now... I need 7 hours of sleep, and I have a little fishing boat parked next
to the house. I'd rather be out on the lake with my wife, or the kids, and a
pole. These are the moments that make my life feel full. If I don't make the
"next big thing"... I'm good.

------
paulojreis
> As hackers, do you feel like you can hack life and get more years out of it
> then the average joe?

 _Hackers_ we'll die earlier, obese and with mobility problems, and probably
sitting, while trying to hack "life". :)

I'm not a big fan of the whole "hack life" mentality. We aren't used to deal
with complex systems, such as organisms or life. Despite the echo chamber we
live in, the systems we deal with are simple; way simpler than life, and
deterministic. Every time we think we "hacked life", we're just ignoring the
complexity of the problem at hand (just think about the "hack nutrition" ideas
around...).

------
alanlit
Man, what a weird question. I'm 61; been programming since 1968 (Ferranti
Atlas --
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_%28computer%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_%28computer%29)
\-- the first machine with a whole bunch of stuff). What have I learned?:

* Software isn't eating the world. Software is the world. * Software has very little to do with the next 'disrupting X'. That is just VC twaddle trying to pull one over on the rest of us. Do not mistake floozy business models for solid value add.

If you want to 'hack life' then solve really hard problems (or play really
hard music - your choice). Do not fixate on 20 year olds and their next big
thing. Finding and solving big problems will juice your Amygdala, and said
juicing will ensure a happy life hack above and beyond 'the average Joe'.
Though quite why that is such an important goal is beyond me (do you really
want to be the "last man standing"?).

------
digitalzombie
> As hackers, do you feel like you can hack life and get more years out of it
> then the average joe?

Yeah, sun screen, good diet, meditation and exercise.

> Or do you feel lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming
> up the next big thing?

I feel there's a rift.

The market is more competitive and requires people to go to school longer to
stay on edge.

For me, it seem you trade your social life, kinda, for a secured or better
future prospect by chasing the money instead of enjoyment of life. So the rift
I'm seeing is that there are younger people that are poor but more genuine in
characters and sociable. I find myself stuck being jealous, not envious mind
you, but at the same time working on this aspect of myself. I'm also using my
money to buy experiences such as trying new things and creating opportunity to
experience things.

As I am closer to 30, soon to be 30 this year, I find myself less risky and
more conservative in actions. In term of I now rather have a secure job with
better work balance life than a startup job with lots of overtime.

The next big thing for me is not the big thing anymore.

It's what is good enough to bring in passive income with minimum amount of
upkeep.

It's not, oh I want to be the next google, but more of I want to create a
service that people want -- at the same that enable me to work little so I can
enjoy more.

Sometime I feel lost or rather frustrated, the young kid in their 20s adopt
bleeding edge technology recklessly and they move on to new job and somebody
are stuck with maintaining their mess. Google have Mesos or Kubernetes or Big
data, we need it too!

If you young people are reading, please adopt boring technology. Or research
more throughly, I guess taking a risk in adoption can pay out, RoR senior are
making bank. I chose the PHP route...

------
aerovistae
"Hack life"...please, just stop with this. Can we coin a new phrase?

~~~
m52go
"live to the fullest"

or maybe just..."live"

so often it seems like we're so preoccupied with 'hacking' our lives that we
forget to live them at all...

~~~
phlandis
_survive_

~~~
m52go
are you just _surviving_? lighten up... _live_ a little.

------
CuriouslyC
How do I handle getting older? I'm dealing with it by becoming a bad-ass. Age
doesn't matter in the face of extreme competence. I used to just kind of wing-
it and shoot from the hip, that attitude leads to problems.

Now, if I am seriously about doing something, I pull out all the stops to be
the absolute best. I approach my interests like a scientist; I keep detailed
notes, meticulously measure and track progress, and come up with experiments
to expand my knowledge. I have an attitude of constant improvement, so I'm
always looking for new things to try and new ways to excel.

I have absolutely zero worries about a midlife crisis or any sort of malaise
associated with growing older. I'm killing it, and I know that as
circumstances change I'll be able to change and adapt with them to stay on top
of my game.

------
GnarfGnarf
I've been writing code since 1965 (yes, fifty years), run my own company, and
I can still support my family doing it. Best damn job in the world.

~~~
robotkilla
best damn comment too. very encouraging to hear someone has been at it for
this long. Only 13 or 14 years for me thus far.

------
api
I try to maintain my mental vitality by limiting nostalgia and intentionally
seeking out new things.

For example, I do this thing periodically with my music collection where I
create a playlist of only music made in the past 5 years. If that playlist is
too sparse, I go looking for more.

A lot of what's bad about aging strikes me as almost an ideology. The cynicism
of age is an ideology. It's like a belief system where you adopt a retrograde
view of time -- things are getting worse, they were better in the old days,
etc. This isn't how time actually works. Things _evolve_ over time. Some
things get better, some get worse, but mostly there's just change.

------
japhyr
If we don't die from an acute event or illness, we can expect to live
somewhere around 75 years. How many of those years do most people take full
advantage of?

My heroes are people like Fred Beckey [0], who keep living fully through all
their years. I've watched most people in my family stop living fully around
their 40's and 50's, mostly associated with the focus on raising kids. But
it's also an effect of not wanting to face the challenges of the world; I've
watched many older family members retreat into their own homes, and venture
out into the world less and less often out of fear of a changing world.

How do you live fully through all your years? Keep doing the things you love,
especially the things that require you to be mentally and physically active.
Don't give up everything for your kids. Learn new things, mentally and
physically. I started learning to drive a boat on the ocean at 41 last summer,
and it was deeply humbling but deeply renewing. I'm planning to pick up a
musical instrument sometime in the next few years.

It's not about living longer, it's about living fully with the years we have.

[0] - [http://www.thecleanestline.com/2013/01/happy-90th-
birthday-t...](http://www.thecleanestline.com/2013/01/happy-90th-birthday-to-
the-master-fred-beckey.html)

------
scarecrowbob
I'm 37. I keep getting new jobs on new technologies, but I don't think that
really helps me see the larger problems. I'm a lot better at doing things than
the 20 year olds I know are, even if they have some technical skills I haven't
yet mastered.

What I have had luck with is in hanging out with people both older and younger
than me. I am in a band with guys in their mid 60s (except the drummer, who is
in his 70s... and his old band got together and was able to open up for the
flaming lips this last may... how cool is that!!!).

These folks are older than my parents, but you can see how much longer you're
going to live when you know that hey, people in their 70s are often still
working on the same kinds of things that I work on.

It helped me realize that not only do I still (possibly) have another a whole
other lifetime ahead of me to do a bunch of things that I wanted to do, but I
can actually make progress even slowly if I work on things a bit every day...

it is a lot easier to spend a bit of time getting to really know a scale on
the piano when you realize you still might have another 40 years to enjoy your
fluency with it.

If you plan to keep getting better at things throughout your life and know
that you may have the time to enjoy using a bunch of skills you acquire
slowly, then that last half of a life appears to contain just as many
possibilities as the first half.

------
mindcrime
> do you feel like you can hack life and get more years out of it then the
> average joe?

The biggest thing I've learned about all that, is the importance of eating
right, staying active, and paying attention to your health. Oh, don't get me
wrong... everybody KNOWS that stuff, and at least pays lip service to it. I
did, for a long time. Then I had a heart attack at 41. Now I know, on a very
visceral level, the importance of this stuff. And I've read and learned a lot
about health topics, diet, etc. So I hope I will be able to live longer now
that I understand (I think) a lot more about how to eat well, and now that
I've renewed my commitment to getting outdoors and being active (which mostly
means bicycle riding for me, but also running and hiking occasionally as
well).

> Or do you feel lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming
> up the next big thing?

I don't see it that way anyway. There's a bit of a stereotype about the
"college kid in his dorm starting a startup" but I think that's a fairly
recent invention. And nobody I know thinks that entrepreneurship / startups /
hacking / etc. are the exclusive province of 20-somethings.

Anyway, I'm just going to do what I do, and I'm not terribly worried about
what everybody else is doing. Although I agree with what codingdave says about
keeping up with newer technologies. Yeah, I'm 42 and yeah I am most
comfortable with "old" tech like Java and C++, but I spend some time on
Javascript and Scala and Clojure and the like as well.

------
Encosia
Avoid cultures that hail 20 year olds dreaming up the next big thing. Outside
of a few (toxic) pockets, those cultures are in the minority in my experience.

------
PeterWhittaker
Q1: Exercise, eat well, do cool things. This month, I will consult for several
high-profile customers, act in a film, judge a BBQ competition, hang out with
my offroading buddies, go offroading, visit friends and family, and possibly
tinker with my Jeep.

Of course, it ain't all cool: I will also clean up cat shit stains in the
basement (older cat having problems), deal with troublesome weeds in the
backyard, pay way more than I want to to have the garage slab fixed, and get
caught up on my accounting (I've been a bit slack this year).

Qs2&3: False dichotomies, poorly phrased questions. I will be 50 in just over
a month. I live my life, not anyone else's.

I don't look at what others are doing and think "cool", I think about what I
like doing, what I think is cool, and, provided that I can afford it
financially, emotionally, intellectually, and physically, or that the
loss/gain in any of those areas is acceptable, I do it.

End of story. You don't _deal_ with getting older. You live. You keep living.
You live the life you want to live. The _dealing_ takes care of itself.

------
logfromblammo
How do I deal with it? Very badly.

When I first started in the software field, I didn't expect that it would come
to resemble a brothel. But now it does, and I don't feel all that young and
pretty any more.

 _Everybody_ is dreaming up the next big thing. The 20-year-old dreamers are
just the ones that sell their dreams most cheaply. This whole industry seems
like a continuation of the cool kid cliques in high school pretending to be
the nerds' friends, so that they will continue doing all the homework. We're
getting some money out of it, but no respect.

So I'm not really very motivated to "get more years out of it". The years I
have had haven't been all that great. As Lord Farquad said in Shrek, "It's
rude enough being alive when no one wants you, but showing up uninvited [to
someone else's party]?"

So, yeah, I guess I deal with aging by shriveling up and getting bitter. The
world will never lack for exploitable 20-year-olds, and I'll never be the one
to get to them early enough, or with enough capital, to profit from one.

~~~
mud_dauber
"...I didn't expect that it would come to resemble a brothel." Truer words
were never spoken.

------
pcsanwald
I'm 38, and have been working as a professional programmer for 18 years, since
I was 20. Here's what works for me:

\- Fitness: Eat reasonably and stay in good physical condition (I box and
run). I enjoy food but eating in moderation is important as you age.

\- Other interests: I've worked as a professional musician since I was 18, a
parallel career. After 20 years of working as a guitarist, I've recently
embarked on learning upright bass. it's wonderful, and mind opening.

\- Varied career: I've been very fortunate to have played a lot of different
roles, doing all kinds of development, management, etc. It's easy to get stuck
in a rut and not challenge yourself with new experiences, don't let this
happen.

\- Self awareness: I have a natural inclination to work on things I'm not good
at, but have also learned over the years to play to my strengths. This is one
of the great advantages of getting older.

------
zerocored
I personally think age has less to do with this 'culture'. It is mostly your
attitude towards new things that surface and whether you're willing to accept
the change.

Personally, I've lost interest in the past 4-5 years where there have been
significant changes.

------
outside1234
I feel like my programming career gets better and better with age - I really
have not felt the discrimination that others have (or worry about). I just
keep on keeping on and make it a focus to spend 5-10 hours a week improving my
skills and staying current.

------
criddell
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow said it better than I can:

    
    
      For age is opportunity no less
      Than youth itself, though in another dress,
      And as the evening twilight fades away
      The sky is filled with stars, invisible by day.

------
ebbv
> As hackers, do you feel like you can hack life and get more years out of it
> then the average joe?

I dunno what this is supposed to mean. I have known tons of older guys who
really know their shit and have been programmers their entire career. I'll be
37 next month and feel like I'm not only more knowledgeable and on top of
things than I've ever been, but also far more professional in how I conduct
myself than I was when I was younger.

And based on the 20-somethings I"ve interviewed, I have zero fear that young
people are going to make me obsolete.

> Or do you feel lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming
> up the next big thing?

No because being an entrepreneur has never been my goal in life. My dad had a
computer company in the 80s, and our family suffered greatly when it went
under. I have always prioritized stable income over a shot at becoming a
millionaire/billionaire. The company I work for now was actually started by a
friend of mine over 10 years ago, and has made him rich and made me
comfortable.

If I were going to quit my job to do a start up, yeah I might get passed up in
favor of young people by investors, but if they truly only passed me up for
another company just because they were younger a) I could sue them and b) they
wouldn't be the right partners anyway.

I think if you want to stay in this industry in later years, you should set
yourself up to be in a comfortable position for you, whatever that means. If
that means you do your start up when you're young and make a solid business
out of it, or if that means you get yourself the skills needed to be highly in
demand and well paid when you're older, you should plan for where you want to
be.

------
brianberns
I'm 48 and I've been developing software professionally since I was 21 years
old. I think I'm every bit as sharp as I used to be, and probably somewhat
more productive overall due to my experience. My only fears are degraded
eyesight (I have to wear reading glasses now), and age discrimination. Don't
believe the hype.

------
psycr
That cultural description is only true in so far as you believe it.

~~~
rubbingalcohol
Yes. By definition, hackers are not bound by rules others impose on them, and
I don't think a person's age _necessarily_ makes any difference to having that
mentality. Although age affects people in other ways. As people mature,
priorities shift, and this can affect how a person perceives the world or
their place in society, and this in turn could affect a person's willingness
to push the boundaries.

So there's definitely a bias towards people who are younger and have less to
lose, but it's not like any hard limits exist.

------
grokys
I'm 40 and I think I might be the only person who really just doesn't give a
shit?

I mean, I feel a bit different, sure - but do I really feel much different to
when I was 20? Not really. You do some things, then you do some other things,
life continues. Maybe if you stop thinking so much about it you'll feel
better.

------
ilaksh
I'm 37. I have been dreaming up the next big thing for 30+ years. That
includes today and yesterday. Your question implies that 20 year olds have
fresher ideas than myself. This is absolutely false.

Ageism is a real problem, just like racism and classism.

"Get more years out of it.. or .. feel lost..", what does that mean? Your
question is ageist.

I was never really part of any culture since I generally don't integrate
socially.

After a certain age, your brain chemistry or neural balance or something
changes so that you have a much clearer worldview. Maybe just from thinking
over and studying basic things for so long. On the other hand, I do feel that
I can incorporate new information into my worldview easier than most people,
including kids.

As far as 'hacking life', I think there is a limit to what exercise and diet
and other 'hacks' can do for aging. Certainly of course some drugs can
increase performance for both old and young. Whether there are downsides to
those drugs I am not sure. However, I do believe that comprehensive approaches
like SENS (as opposed to popular quick-fix ideas) to attacking root causes of
aging will probably eventually yield strong results.

As far as technology selection, most younger people are actually using an
outdated frame of reference that they adopted from either a few years prior
when they picked up a particular technology, or from older developers that
they copy on the basis of authority.

The trick to understanding and embracing the leading edge and inventing the
next thing is not being young. It is having good comprehension of technology,
being open, not deferring to authority or sunk costs, and being willing and
able to rebuild your foundations when premises fall.

The other trick to being the next big thing is popularity (which is often
quite disconnected from novelty), and for that it helps to be young and
pretty, but older people can win the social network popularity contests and
are good promoters also.

------
mlfisher
There's an old story, the punchline of which is an invoice that reads
something like this:

Pushing button: $1 Knowing which button to push: $9999

After almost 25 years in IT, the meaning is more clear than ever. Skills are
great, but experience is invaluable. For better or worse, experience comes
with age.

I've been pretty lucky in my career so far. I've not gotten rich by any means,
but I've been steadily employed and, with a couple of exceptions, have enjoyed
the work I do. I've also had the opportunity to work with some very smart
people in various fields, both young and old, and have taken every opportunity
to learn from them. Hack life? No. Just live it and learn from it. The only
thing the average 20-something has over me is more time to learn.

------
adregan
Granted, I'm only 30, so take my anecdotal experience as an older person with
a grain of salt, but I've found that getting older isn't so hard as everyone
seems to get nicer in their 30s. Life's easier when people are nicer.

------
brak2718
My body decays faster than the rate at which I change my unhealthy habits.

I have too much experience now to know that many ideas & projects will be
expensive or impossible ... kids don't have that limitation.

------
Sakes
Just make sure you get better as you get older and make sure to cultivate
relationships based upon mutual respect. Work should be guaranteed provided
our economy is strong enough to sustain it.

------
payne92
Each year: bigger fonts, more Advil. :)

------
sjg007
Your network matters more than you think it does. You can hire smart kids to
work for you for relatively cheap (this is how it always has worked). Ignore
the celebrification of the industry.

------
jwillis84
The older get the more original the ideas I seem to have.

Strangely the older I get the more unoriginal and older the ideas the younger
people seem to think up.. maybe its their inexperience.. but they always seem
to be wasting more and more time until its a zero sum game or they give up and
just have kids.. then stop doing anything.

It might explain the 10 percent phenom, only a very few people get more
original with age.. the rest just degenerate and give up.

------
issa
I don't think of getting older as something to "deal with". Maybe if you were
a pro athlete, that would be an OK way to look at it. But as a
programmer/thinker/business person, I get better everyday. And so do my peers
based on my observations.

Granted, I don't recognize pop culture references much but, aside from that,
and needing to sit for a minute before getting out of bed in the morning, not
much has changed.

------
DrNuke
Aging well in terms of skills, experience and exposure to the best practices
and the flow of technologies may be rewarding when teams decide strategies:
been there, done that is a way to spot and hopefully avoid common mistakes.
That said, reinventing the wheel is a learning process itself and success is
more often singular than the result of a plan.

------
paparush
Running. I logged 1600+ miles in 2014. I'll be closer to 2000 in 2015. I'm 48.
Started running again (I ran some in high school and a little after college)
when I turned 40. I weigh less than I did in high school. It keeps me
motivated. Keeps me sharp.

------
arisAlexis
Although IQ is a debated subject there are many researches claiming that the
ability to solve complex problems peaks at about 30 and remains like that
until 64. Speed declines. I am good with that because I am not taking part at
hackathons.

------
gorbachev
It's inevitable. Why worry about it?

There's nothing about age that prevents you from understanding or coming up
with the next big thing. Keep your mind open and eyes open for stuff that's
happening in whatever field you're interested.

------
0xdeadbeefbabe
Do 20 year olds feel lost when their next big thing is a derivative work from
the 70s[0]?

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-
zdhzMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY)

~~~
rbl
Just picking a nit here... The 'Mother of all Demos' is from the end of 1968,
so the '60s. I've been about 2 months old when that happened. :)

------
paulsutter
Old age is the single most surprising thing that happens to a person.

But I don't think getting hailed is the driver for success. What you
accomplish is a lot more important. And age definitely does not prevent that.

------
evo_9
I'm 48 and I do feel that I can get more years out of life because I'm more
aware and focused on making it happen. I've been fortune that I grew up
playing hockey and developed an almost religious belief in the power of
working out. It's the best way to stay sharp mentally, feel better physically,
and stave of the effects of aging as best we can right now. We are also
supremely lucky because our knowledge in this space has increased hugely; my
parents had no clue about eating right, or working out, or any of that. My
father at 48 looked like you would expect a 48 year old to look like; living
in colorado, which is a hyper healthy state full of cross-fitters, runners and
olympians trainers, it's striking how young older folks look. I often get
mistaken for late 30's, and growing up it would be unthinkable that someone my
age could play against 20-something Division 1 college players and be affect.
I do this regularly, and I'm grateful I'm able to do it still.

I'm also a big believer in vitamins and supplements, but I know that's a major
point of contention (I regularly get razzed by my surgeon buddy at hockey
about spending money to color my piss). I disagree though, and I'll spare the
lecture on why I believe so because ultimately it comes down to whether or not
it helps you personally. I've posted in the past about the positive effects of
fish-oil, ubiquinol w/ PQQ and Resveratrol in particular.

Bottom line, it depends on your goals. Mine is to live a 1000 years or so. I
started telling my friends this about 20 years back, I think I'd just read K.
Eric Drexler's Engines of Creation and probably one of Kaku's physics books
and the written to me was clearly on the wall - progress would work in my
favor, if I worked hard to keep myself in great shape, I just might make it
far enough in life to see these cascading breakthrough's that will eventually
propel man's lifespan into the hundreds and beyond. I do realize this is a
long shot, but at the same time have nothing to lose by using this to drive my
workout and health.

Regarding the 20 something culture... be careful on that... it's natural it
seems as one gets older to lament how things have changed, how the 'young
folks' are different and the world is changing. In reality we've changed, they
are mostly the same, just as angst driven, excited for the future and full of
hope and promise and probably a bit too optimistic. This is great, really,
don't let it get you down and try to remember/embrace that way of thinking.

I just started a blog on all this stuff, only a bit of content so far but I
plan to write a few pieces a week:
[https://existentialquandary.wordpress.com](https://existentialquandary.wordpress.com)

~~~
cryodesign
Live long enough to live forever(ish)... my goal as well - I missed soaking up
knowledge when I was younger and trying to catch up now.

In terms of diet, you might also be interested in Thrive Foods by Brendan
Brazier -
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0738215112/](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0738215112/)

~~~
evo_9
Thanks I had not seen that before.

------
GFischer
I'm 34 and I believe I'm dreaming up the next big thing.

Many entrepreneurs become succesful at an older age... the famous Coronel
Sanders became succesful in his 60s !!

In the tech field, Jeff Bezos started Amazon in his 30s.

------
aj__
I'm working on a time machine. This is how I'm dealing with it.

------
viach
Isn't any such a question really asks "how do you deal with the fact you'll
die quite soon"?

------
lawman508
I just turned 50. Get off my lawn.

------
mrbig4545
one day at a time ;)

but seriously, that's how i do it. i never worry about the future, it'll be
right. and if it's not it's not, no point worrying about what might be

------
magic_beans
I wonder how many people on this thread actively workout?

------
rfergie
I take it one day at a time

------
mud_dauber
Being 55 in Austin can be a real downer if you let it. I missed the last two
bubbles thanks to being in the semiconductor business.

The good news: I avoided most of the insanity. A nest egg, a paid-off house
(no mortgage for 6 years), my wife & dogs, my health, and the ability to
occasionally travel for pleasure. We put away ~25% of our earnings every
month. I go to the gym 4-5 times per week and sweat my ass off.

I've seen more than my share of layoffs so I spend _every_ _bleeping_ _moment_
learning other technologies. I won't be able to call myself a full-stack dev
or a data scientist, but I know enough to get the simple stuff done. It will
keep me in coffee and banh mi sandwiches when I tell my employer to stuff it.

As for "work fast and break things" culture: I know that 90% of this is fueled
by the media. Don't buy the hype. Just be a good human being and ensure that
your salary > costs.

I'm rapidly approaching the day that I won't have to wake up and read YC's
bullshit. I'll be on a mountainside with my dogs and my wife. Good effing
riddance.

~~~
fokinsean
I'm jealous of you having a paid off house in Austin right now as I'm sure
your property value has risen significantly in the last few years.

I just graduated UT with a CS and got a nice job, but now is the time to buy a
house and unfortunately that probably isn't going to happen for a little
while.

~~~
mud_dauber
It'll happen. It took me 10 years of not-so-glamourous jobs before I felt
ready to buy. Don't sweat it. (Pun not intended.)

------
it_luddite
Get off my lawn!

------
kentf
Acceptance.

------
notNow
Come on man, let me give you a hug. You seem to need it. Do you feel better
now?

