
Senator Josh Hawley's Open Letter to Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom - baylearn
https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senator-hawley-zoom-pick-side-american-principles-and-free-speech-or-short-term-global-profits-and
======
coldcode
Explicitly difficult to serve both China and US interests without pissing off
one side or the other (or both). Zoom clearly built a system based on an MVP
idea, not imagining that security and being able to block internationally was
important, yet it is. Having worked for a bit on a game that had to have
Chinese government restrictions in it, I know how hard it is to make their
government happy. Even worse is it can change at any time. Zoom should have
had someone there who had worked in a similar type of Chinese environment;
perhaps they did and no one listened.

~~~
varjag
Or _maybe_ it should have not, and should've just cut off the whole China, how
ever offensive to capitalist sensibilities it is.

Let the free market come up with another alternative for massacre-silencing
needs.

~~~
throw4453232
Why not just license the software to a local company?

Or incorporate in Europe and then license it local providers around the world.
Let the local providers deal with it.

------
baylearn
Note: I couldn't fit the entire title in HN's title character limit, so
replaced it with what it is.

Original title:

Senator Hawley to Zoom: “Pick A Side: American Principles and Free-Speech, or
Short-Term Global Profits and Censorship”

~~~
fxtentacle
I'm surprised that he even has to ask. Profits it is! Or else you better
prepare for a lawsuit from your shareholders.

~~~
ycombonator
Or the Chinese Communist Party which can make him obsolete as they have done
with other Chinese billionaires who don’t two their line.

~~~
mwerty
Examples?

~~~
robotnikman
Liu Han might be an example

~~~
mwerty
Thanks

------
mola
Kinda funny that it's ok for zoom to become a platform for US to monitor it's
own civilians but then complain that it's cooperating with Chinese law. Seems
to me senator wants zoom to pick sides alright, but it has nothing to do with
values or principles

~~~
thecureforzits
Speaking as someone who isn't American or Chinese, is it too much to ask for
both sides to stop spying on the rest of us?

~~~
afrojack123
This is too idealistic. It would never happen. You either build it yourself or
choose your spy.

------
carls
Have there been any info shared by Zoom explicitly about this decision?

And are there any HNers who work at Zoom, or know someone who works at Zoom,
who can speak to how this situation is perceived internally?

~~~
mfer
Zoom blogged about it... [https://blog.zoom.us/wordpress/2020/06/11/improving-
our-poli...](https://blog.zoom.us/wordpress/2020/06/11/improving-our-policies-
as-we-continue-to-enable-global-collaboration/)

------
specialist
It's unreasonable to expect any single company to act alone in this. Some
pundit (Scott Galloway?) recently made the point that USA flag corporations
need the US Government to make this law. I'd be fine if FAANG et al presented
model legislation.

------
tqi
Senator Hawley also introduced legislation that could be used to block efforts
to implement end-to-end encryption, so maybe this is more about American
nationalism than American Principles.

"Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has slammed the bill as a 'Trojan horse to give
Attorney General Barr and Donald Trump the power to control online speech and
require government access to every aspect of Americans' lives.'" [1]

[1] [https://thehill.com/policy/technology/487372-bill-to-
protect...](https://thehill.com/policy/technology/487372-bill-to-protect-
children-online-ensnared-in-encryption-fight) [2]
[https://morningconsult.com/opinions/a-backdoor-attempt-to-
re...](https://morningconsult.com/opinions/a-backdoor-attempt-to-require-
backdoors-to-encryption/)

------
orf
> company to choose a side: American principles and free-speech, or short-term
> global profits and censorship

Or both. Like most other companies.

~~~
mikestew
_Or both._

You're assuming there was ever a dichotomy to being with. Many have
demonstrated that a company can have "American principles" and short-term
global profits and censorship at the same time. Companies have been doing it
since China "opened up" in the 70s and 80s.

I would also request that the Senator from Missouri give me a specific list of
what constitutes "American principles". I'll bet his list is at least
_slightly_ different than my list. But there _I_ go, assuming that a solution
was being sought and not just posturing.

~~~
orf
> I would also request that the Senator from Missouri give me a specific list
> of what constitutes "American principles"

You can get a great picture of his (parties) principals by his press releases.
Yada yada relgious freedom, police are good, "radical left" is bad, planned
parenthood is the devil etc.

1\. [https://www.hawley.senate.gov/press-
releases](https://www.hawley.senate.gov/press-releases)

~~~
mikestew
I was being ever so slightly facetious (I'm sure a MO Republican's views
differ greatly from those of my West Coast Liberal(tm) arse), but thanks for
the list as it solidifies what I was merely guessing at. :-)

------
atarian
Do open letters from legislators really accomplish anything other than
negative media attention?

~~~
Leary
Looking at the cases of the NBA and Blizzard, no.

Next step will be hours of Congressional hearings where politicians invoke
fiery rhetorics and company executives use verbal jiu jitsu to dodge out of
any legal liabilities.

------
sneak
Is he going to be writing a similar letter to Apple?

[https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/28/17055088/apple-chinese-
ic...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/28/17055088/apple-chinese-icloud-
accounts-government-privacy-speed)

[https://sneak.berlin/20200604/if-zoom-is-wrong-so-is-
apple/](https://sneak.berlin/20200604/if-zoom-is-wrong-so-is-apple/)

------
mandeepj
Choose American principles and free-speech or face cease and desist

~~~
thinkingkong
Oddly enough Im fairly confident its an American Principle to make as much
money as possible as a fiduciary responsibility. So. Pick one.

~~~
sukilot
That's a complete myth.

------
awillen
I just don't understand how US government officials can criticize private
companies for kowtowing to China because of its importance in the world, when
the US government unequivocally does the same thing every day to a much
greater degree.

~~~
mips_avatar
I think Senator Hawley addresses your criticism head-on. China and the United
States both have requirements for domestic companies to be in alignment with
certain domestic goals. The Chinese and United State domestic goals are
absolutely incompatible. A lot of companies think they can find a balance
between these two sets of requirements, but Hawley is pointing out that
increasingly this is impossible.

------
aaron695
Relevant XKCD - [https://xkcd.com/1357/](https://xkcd.com/1357/)

------
michaelyoshika
Lesson learned: change your chinese name when your company goes public.

~~~
dx87
That has nothing to do with it. Similar letters were written when
Activision/Blizzard punished a Hearthstone player for supporting the Honk Kong
protests.

------
massaman
Suppose Zoom exits China (1.39B potential users) in response. This would
almost certainly constitute a breach of fiduciary duty.

Censorship is legal. Failing to act in the best interest of shareholders is
not.

Perhaps legislators should stick to writing laws?

~~~
duxup
>This would almost certainly constitute a breach of fiduciary duty.

Would it? I'm not sure simply operating in a big market or not operating it
would qualify as 'breach of fiduciary duty'.

