
Startup hopes to hack the immigration system with a floating incubator - llambda
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/11/startup-hopes-to-hack-the-immigration-system-with-a-floating-incubator.ars
======
law
Blueseed needs to tread carefully here. While 12 miles is generally safe for
most activities, there's a 'contiguous zone' beyond 12 nautical miles
extending up to 24 nautical miles where a coastal state may "exercise the
control necessary to: (a) prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal,
immigration or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or
territorial sea; (b) punish infringement of the above laws and regulations
committed within its territory or territorial sea."[1]

While 24 nautical miles is the upper boundary per international treaties,
coastal states are free to adopt a contiguous zone less than 24 miles (such as
to respect other coastal states' boundaries). In 1999, however, the United
States announced that it was extending its contiguous zone to 24 nautical
miles to protect against the infringements mentioned above.[2]

[1]
[http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/uncl...](http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm)
Sec. 4, Art. 33.

[2] <http://clinton4.nara.gov/CEQ/990902a.html>

------
jerfelix
I wonder if this idea could be mimicked on land, for Midwesterners who want to
move close to Silicon Valley, but can't tackle the housing prices. I know of
several - no, many - entrepreneurs who would love to move to SV, but the
money's too good back home and the risk is too high simply because of the
difference in cost of living.

Maybe you Californians can give me your opinion. Would it be possible to set
up an incubator's Headquarters outside of Silicon Valley, in some cheaper
area, and still get the benefits of the SV culture, by commuting periodically
(much like the boaters would do)?

I see on Zillow [1] that the average home cost in San Jose metro is $552K,
while it's only $130K in Modesto (90 miles away).

Or is there another cheap area a little closer? Pleasanton? Fremont? (any
other suggestions?) Maybe the incubator could get a bunk room apartment in SV
for overnights or when there's an early meeting or a late-evening event.

Would that make any sense? Or do they just need to bite the bullet and move to
Santa Clara or Sunnyvale, and pay outrageous prices for housing?

And if it wouldn't make sense, what does that say about this floating
incubator idea?

[1] <http://www.zillow.com/local-info/CA-home-value/r_9/>

~~~
SeoxyS
Not only is Modesto 90 miles away which would be pretty damn awful as a daily
commute, but it's also not the nicest spot to live in. If you're getting paid
a Silicon Valley salary, you can easily afford Bay Area housing. You could
find spots like Modesto, Fremont or Oakland that are much cheaper… but there's
a reason they're cheaper. For the most part, they're pretty crappy places to
live.

I say this having lived in Oakland for a year, and trust me when I say that
it's a huge shithole. Insane crime, crappy acomodations, and a very depressing
atmosphere. I got mugged at gunpoint there once, too.

~~~
oaklandisfun
I have lived in Oakland for 8 years, dont drive a car, take public transit,
walk, shop, and work here. Never been mugged. Perhaps the problem was with you
and not the city. Anyways, with that attitude Im glad to hear you left. Dont
come back.

~~~
logic
I see this sentiment a lot, and I appreciate that your visceral reaction is
because of the tone of the post you're replying to, so please don't take this
too personally.

But, and I say this as a happy resident of the East Bay, you're simply
sticking your head in the sand if you ignore the fact that Oakland and some of
it's neighbors are very good places to become a victim: ranked fourth in the
US, actually. 2010 FBI crime rate data; sort by "violent crime":

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_r...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate)

I love living over here, but this is a _terrible_ statistic, and Oakland has
more than earned it's reputation. Expending all your effort telling people
they're wrong to be afraid feels like such a waste; there are so many more
productive things that could be done with that energy that might actually
address the problem.

~~~
oaklandisfun
True that. I didn't mean to insinuate that Oakland is the safest place to
live. I simply found the comment calling it a "huge shithole" mildly
offensive. It may be more dangerous than other cities but I do believe, going
on years of personal experience as well as observing the experiences of
others, that the danger can be mitigated by one's own attitude and actions. I
expend much energy in my community and leaving even that aside I believe I
make Oakland a better place to live for everyone by smiling and saying hello
to my neighbors every day. Perhaps not, just my take.

------
tryitnow
This will probably fail. But many if not most ambitious startups fail.
However, it's something that must be tried at least for the sake of forcing a
reconsideration of the US's draconian immigration restrictions on highly
skilled workers.

There are a few criticisms that have popped up in regards to this project: 1)
It will lead to the exploitation of workers. Nonsense. This only make economic
sense of those non-US citizens who are skilled enough that it's worthwhile to
be in proximity to SV. The "low-skilled" niche is already occupied by
companies outsourcing to Bangalore et al. and entrepreneurs outsourcing to
oDesk, eLance, etc.

2) Successful passage of the Startup Visa would undermine the business plan.
Maybe, but once this gets underway, who knows what other opportunities could
arise. The Startup Visa has some requirements:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startup_Visa#Requirements> It could be possible
for this project to actually help non-US entrepreneurs get the needed funding
to qualify for a Startup Visa.

Overall, I think it's worth trying, just not with my money. If they do
succeed, my bet is that it won't be with the business model proposed in the
article (charge for rent + some equity), it will be with something nobody is
predicting right now.

~~~
westbywest
Further counterpoints to the 2 points of criticism you raise. 1) Exploitation
of immigrant workers (especially undocumented) is already common place within
this country's borders, tho primarily for low-skilled jobs. I don't see any
inherent economic incentive to worker exploitation on boat, above what
unscrupulous employees already take advantage of on-shore. 2) Should
legislation like the Startup Visa actually come to pass, the population on
this boat could then simply move on-shore, and probably enjoy cheaper
operating expenses. That population would already be rather unmoored, so to
speak, so relocating shouldn't be too much of a hurdle.

------
mtviewdave
Some questions:

While the floating incubator will be in international waters, it's still
within the U.S.'s exclusive economic zone. Is there legal precedent that
travelling to a floating platform in the U.S.'s EEZ count as an "exit" for
visa purposes?

The map in the article suggests that the ferries will go to/from Half Moon
Bay. But Half Moon Bay is not a Port of Entry. Is the expectation that the
U.S. government will set up HMB as a Port of Entry? And if it doesn't, is this
project still practical if the ferries are required to travel to San
Francisco?

If the U.S. decides to bar someone on the platform from entry, doesn't that
mean that person is stuck on the platform? How else would someone get from the
platform to, say, the U.K., without going through a U.S. airport?

~~~
law
It's actually within the contiguous zone, which offers even more regulatory
abilities by the coastal state. The ship could just sail outside of the
contiguous zone, but would still be within the EEZ. In that case, the issue
becomes more tricky.

Article 56 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea [UNCLOS]
provides states with sovereign rights to exploit the resources contained
within the EEG. If Blueseed wants to connect to undersea cables (or provide
another mainland direct link), the ships become artificial islands because of
the connection to the seabed. Because the provisions of Art. 60 of UNCLOS
apply mutatis mantandis to artificial islands, it might not matter whether the
start-up is an Art. 56 installation or a ship exercising its "high seas"
freedoms. This protection extends to up to 200 nautical miles from the coast,
so to be "truly" free, you'd have to go past the EEZ and likely operate an
offshore airport for ferrying your employees.

As for the point of entry issues, I'm afraid I don't know anything about that.
They'd likely be rendered moot by the need for an airport, though.

~~~
ims
Keep in mind that the United States, while observing UNCLOS in many of its
particulars, has not ratified it.

~~~
law
That's an extremely good point that I really should have mentioned, since some
of the United States' issues with it pertain to the exclusive economic zone.
Although a non-issue when dealing with the contiguous zone, moving a
ship/artificial island outside of the contiguous zone may implicate it. I'll
have to look some more into the United States' stance on Articles 56 and 60,
which deal with the EEZ and artificial islands, respectively.

------
jasonjei
Honestly, if you've got a good product and you have access to the Internet,
does it really matter where you are physically located? I understand the
energy that being physically present in a particular locality gives, but what
confuses me is that this solution seems counterproductive. Look at Mojang and
Minecraft; they're in Sweden of all places and they're not on some boat trying
to crank a product out. If you want that kind of life, you should join the
Navy.

It's a lot like moving to Hollywood waiting tables/washing cars. The
immigration problems are easily solved once the MVP is out...

In programming, the simplest solutions are often the best. The more
complicated they are, the less thought out they are.

------
mmaunder
This removes the workers from their local economy, drains the value they have
to offer and plops them back where they came from with a meager wage to show
for it.

Creating local jobs in an economy - even outsourced jobs - has a wide variety
of ancillary benefits that this will lack.

As an immigrant to the USA (now citizen) I've had plenty of experience on a
B-1 visa and I can assure you that life with a B-1 visa and an immigration
official between you and the nearest terra firma will be miserable.

~~~
yummyfajitas
_This removes the workers from their local economy, drains the value they have
to offer and plops them back where they came from with a meager wage to show
for it._

Allowing people to immigrate to the US has the same effect.

~~~
anigbrowl
That doesn't strike me as a very credible statement. A significant proportion
of FDI in emerging markets comes from migrants either returning home or
investing through personal social networks.

~~~
yummyfajitas
This would be more or less exactly the same with migrants living and working
on a ship.

The only point I'm making is that I can't see a substantive difference (for
people in the home country) between migration to SanFran and migration to the
USS SanFran.

~~~
anigbrowl
Well, consider someone who immigrates and subsequently has a family. One
doubts this ship would have appropriate medical, daycare, or school
facilities. Sure, most startup minded are likely single and focused on
business, but non work considerations are important to many people. Under
current immigration law, family members of green card holders and naturalized
US citizens get preference in visa allocations; whatever you think of this as
policy, it's certainly a significant benefit for some people in the country of
origin which wouldn't be available with the sea borne approach. Likewise
potential business or investment partners in a non-US country would probably
prefer to deal with someone who has a secure foothold in the US capital or
retail market. Speaking as someone who has lived in several different
countries, the difference between being a tourist and being properly plugged
into the local and legal infrastructure you are working with is huge.

------
angdis
It is kind of sad in a way. News like that makes me think the days where one
can expect a long career doing satisfying work, whilst having a normal life
with family and your own roof over your head are slowly drawing to a close.

Now people are going to be crammed into cabins on a boat? Real nice.

~~~
vosper
I don't think "a long career doing satisfying work, whilst having a normal
life with family and your own roof over your head" has been a realistic
expectation for some time now. Outside of a handful of rich-world countries
it's never been realistic.

Personally I think this is an exciting project, and it needn't be a miserable
experience; if done right this little floating village could be the kind of
high-tech melting pot that leads people to do great things.

~~~
zeratul
I think "a long career doing satisfying work, whilst having a normal life with
family and your own roof over your head" is possible only in academia if you
can get faculty position quickly. Although, the probability of getting grants
is so small that it hardly can be called "normal life".

It's just sad that you create new technologies for U.S. and getting cold
shoulder from Uncle Sam.

~~~
_delirium
I don't think it's uncommon in technology or engineering. There are tens
(hundreds?) of thousands of "normal" engineering jobs at places like IBM and
Lockheed that have fairly good job security, pay well, and don't involve
insane working hours.

------
huherto
Easier option. Move to Ensenada Mexico. It takes 2 hrs to get to San Diego.

<http://g.co/maps/35bqv>

Reduce your expenses, Live in the beach, enjoy Mexican hospitality.

~~~
marquis
Are there any existing startup communities by the beach in Mexico? I can't
think of a more ideal way to work for a few months (for those of us without
families or who otherwise can't move around).

~~~
huherto
Not that I know. Most start ups in Mexico are in bigger cities, but in any
case we still lack an entrepreneurial culture.

~~~
WildUtah
>>we still lack an entrepreneurial culture<<

Which Mexico are you talking about? The one with millions upon millions of
independent taco stands, repair shops, tianguis, ciber cafes, roving
traditional music bands, and drug cartels?

Sure, internet startup culture hasn't taken the place as far as Silicon Valley
yet, but entrepreneurial culture isn't what's lacking.

------
orbitingpluto
This might be a creative way to deal with immigration issues. But it's
obviously wrong. Maybe it's not wrong as a business plan. Maybe it's not wrong
with the legality of the venture. But it's wrong to have people resort to
this. It's not really solving a problem, it's creating a new set of problems.

How long before foreign workers are kept on a similar boat outside of
territorial waters? Imagine living on a vessel where you can't leave because
you're not allowed onto the nearest land mass, you're forced to pay rent to
live there, and quaint little things like labour and safety laws don't apply.
Indentured servitude, slavery, fear, children born with no rights as citizens
anywhere - welcome to (just outside of the) United States of America.

Think I'm being melodramatic? Who do you think is going to be serving meals,
cooking and cleaning? Why bother with Americans when you can keep a Filipino
locked in the bowels of the boat?

Dario Mutabdzija and Max Marty are obviously world class assholes.

~~~
binarybits
Don't the same issues apply to the cruise ship industry?

~~~
orbitingpluto
Yes. Although they do hit a port now and then. So at least there's a chance to
get off once in awhile. Also this reminds me of the cruise ships docked during
the Vancouver Olympics. Many of the workers on the cruise ships were not
allowed to touch land.

------
marcamillion
This actually doesn't solve the problem it think it does. If this is an
'incubator' like YC (i.e. only lasts 3 months) this doesn't make any sense,
because I can get a visitor's visa (B-2 I believe) to go and participate in
YC.

If this is a more long-term solution, and given that they are renting office
space for $1300 - $3000/mo, you can actually get an E-2 Treaty Visa assuming
that you can prove that your company will employ 10 people over 2 years and be
setting up office locally, and investing a minimum of at least $200K I
believe. This was even before relaxation of H1-B rules that allowed foreign
workers to start their own companies.

So I am not sure how far this will go...they should re-examine what they are
trying to do. It sounds like they are just trying to experiment with a
Seasteading exercise and have it subsidized by funded tech startups.

If the real aim is to solve the immigration problem for startups, this
particular solution might not be the best.

~~~
binarybits
B-2 is for tourists. You're probably thinking of the B-1, but as I understand
it that precludes "productive work" and only allows meetings.

The idea is to provide a platform for companies that aren't yet large enough
to take advantage of visas that are available to larger firms. So startups
that got traction would eventually transfer over to being normal SV companies.

~~~
marcamillion
> The idea is to provide a platform for companies that aren't yet large enough
> to take advantage of visas that are available to larger firms. So startups
> that got traction would eventually transfer over to being normal SV
> companies.

That would make sense, except their offering doesn't sound like that's what
they are aiming at. For a company to reach the point where it is spending
$3K/mo just to be within 12 miles off the shore of SV, with crappy satellite
inet...they would have to already be at the point where they can transition
into being a 'normal SV company'...thereby making this point moot.

------
kabdib
A better option that is unlikely to sink: Vancouver, BC

~~~
mahyarm
It is a 2.5 hour drive. It might take the same amount of time to go from
blueseed to a meeting (with a NEXUS card) as it would from vancouver to
seattle.

~~~
justinhj
2.5 hours plus border wait time, plus more time if you don't have a Canadian
passport and need a visa to enter the US. On the other hand Vancouver has a
startup community so you don't need to go to Seattle to find an incubator.
Plus we have vastly more sane immigration laws in Canada

~~~
mahyarm
Border waiting times and visas will be similar or worse with this scheme too.
At least with the car border crossing, you have the option of a NEXUS card and
your not prone to the TSA style procedures due the xray scanner you driver
through.

I was going on travel times alone comparing the two, treating the border wait
times as identical in both schemes. I've lived with ferries, the trip from the
cruise boat to the shore will be 1 hour typically plus an extra 30 minutes for
boarding/disboarding procedures and then another 45 minutes driving minimum to
get from half moon bay to palo alto. So you'll be half an hour faster on
average compared to vancouver-seattle. A helicopter taxi would be faster, but
they typically cost $100 per one way trip.

------
Shenglong
I have a relating question, for anyone law-inclined:

What's stopping someone from setting up a "consulting" company in various
countries to act as a shell? If a company wants to hire an immigrant, that
immigrant could grab a B-1 visa (or whatever else is applicable). The company
would then in turn pay the shell company, which would operate at a $1 profit,
and pay the salary to the worker.

Am I missing something entirely?

~~~
VladRussian
sounds like you have never been to the interview in the American Consulate
abroad. If the company isn't well known, the amount of paparework you'd need
to bring will be impressive, like tax, balance sheets, etc... reports for a
nice number or previous quarters/years. And they seem to employ, at least in
the Consulates in Russia, pretty smart nice people who like to ask very
specific and targetted questions.

So while it isn't impossible and there are various arrangements out there
along these lines, it isn't an easy exploitable scheme and once this
particular worker is "caught" in such a scheme, his future visas/immigration
chances become much more slimmer - this is even if the scheme is setup and
operated by somebody else. As a result for hi-tech people the "white" ways
like H1/L1 are much more preferrable. The H1 numbers for the last years even
wasn't exhausted for example.

~~~
dandv
Vlad, good points.

Just a minor correction, the H-1B cap has been filled every years since 2003,
at least.

[http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-cap-reach-dates-for-
fy-2004-20...](http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-cap-reach-dates-for-
fy-2004-2011-h1b-2012-filing-decision/)

(which needs an update for FY2012 - the cap was reached last week)

------
ericdykstra
Anything that helps attack the immigration problem is a good thing. Even if
it's far-fetched hacks like this, hopefully it will give people some
inspiration on how to solve the problem without waiting for the slow, slow
process of the government changing immigration law.

------
matlaber
When I saw the link title I thought the boat was going to be for expecting
mothers from other countries to live on and then deliver their babies in US
waters (making them US citizens). Needless to say, I was quite confused for
the first couple paragraphs...

------
anigbrowl
Not a lawyer, but when I am immigration is the area I plan to practice in.
This is a terrible idea; even if the floating platform is conjured into a
fully operation existence tomorrow, anyone who goes to work there will more
likely be effectively barred from future entry to the US by the rather
draconian criteria that currently govern the immigration system. This would be
viewed as something akin to economic piracy and the list of legal things that
could go wrong is growing exponentially the longer I think about it.

I know this is a pretty broad-brush criticism, but where I think the
architects of this project are going wrong is in their mechanistic/formalist
assessment of immigration and admiralty (maritime) law. You can look at things
in the US code and say a particular legal approach should work, but in doing
so you're assuming a purely neutral implementation and arbitration process. In
reality, immigration is highly politicized for a variety of reasons. Most
obviously, there's the general spirit of labor protectionism and xenophobia
that reflects popular nationalistic and economic anxiety. Then there's the
fact that immigration is one area where Congress exercises plenary power, and
uses it to effectively exempt some immigration rules from judicial or
executive review. On the administrative side, you have an executive that has
repeatedly set records in enforcement (highs for deportation, lows for
unauthorized entry) and has set out a fairly clear policy of prioritizing
enforcement activities against violent criminals rather than undocumented
economic migrants who are otherwise law-abiding; but the union that represents
immigration enforcement officers is diametrically opposed to these goals,
takes the position that 'the administration refuses to enforce the law', and
its spokesperson has consistently aligned the union with the most hardline
conservative stance imaginable on this issue. I don't know whether this is
because the union leadership considers more aggressive enforcement to be
economically beneficial to its membership or because the persons involved
simply hold reactionary political views, but it's no exaggeration to say that
there is open bureaucratic warfare between the uniformed and legal staff
within ICE.

Under these circumstances, and bearing in mind that in immigration matters,
the burden of proof rests with the non-citizen rather than the government (in
contrast to criminal procedure), how long will a daily offshore ferry service
on the doorstep of Silicon Valley be allowed to operate before being shut down
as a 'suspected people smuggling operation' or similar? Aside from the obvious
risk of maritime accidents when you have daily 'ferry' journeys going 12-24
miles into oceanic waters, visitors from an offshore labor platform are going
to have about the least user-friendly experience it is possible to have when
they come in contact with the coastal ICE agents. As in, being taken into
custody and deported to their country, not their point, of origin. We're
talking about an agency that has an occasional habit of deporting US citizens
by accident, for example: [http://www.lexisnexis.com/community/immigration-
law/blogs/ou...](http://www.lexisnexis.com/community/immigration-
law/blogs/outside/archive/2011/11/21/another-u-s-citizen-arrested-jailed-
almost-deported-by-ice.aspx)

So, A+ for good intentions and drawing further attention to the economically
self-defeating nature of current US policy, but F- for real world
practicality.

~~~
WildUtah
To add to the excellent summary by anigbrowl about the power of existing
interests to make the immigrant ship into a disaster, let's consider the
competition.

Vancouver and La Paz (or possibly Ensenada or Los Cabos) offer urban
amenities, affordable living, first world infrastructure and quality of life,
plenty of space, and -- most importantly -- easy work visas. They're all
within two to three hours of SJC and SFO airports in Silicon Valley, probably
about as close in total travel time as the offshore ship.

If you really need to import a complete team from Durka-durkastan and can't
get all the H1B's you want, just stick 'em in La Paz and spend a day taking in
the Baja ocean breezes any time you need to see them in person. Any team the
boat would work for, Mexico would work better.

(note: Mexican immigration law is much harsher on the undocumented than US
law, but much easier on legal immigrants so get your papers in order when you
try this; it's pretty easy.)

~~~
anigbrowl
Thanks for your kind words!

 _(note: Mexican immigration law is much harsher on the undocumented than US
law, but much easier on legal immigrants so get your papers in order when you
try this; it's pretty easy.)_

Actually, Mexico reformed its immigration regime a few years ago, such that it
is now decriminalized and involves only a nominal fine. Not that you'd know it
from reading US media, which doesn't cover Mexican politics very well.

<http://www.cronica.com.mx/nota.php?id_nota=562826> or
[http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/02/28/176511/mexico-i...](http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/02/28/176511/mexico-
immigration-reform/) for a quick overview.

------
adrianscott
This is a great idea. It doesn't need to be the answer to everything for
everyone. It just needs to work for some folks.

Immigration is just one aspect to this. I hope that blueseed is not just
looking at this as a tech incubator, as I believe there are a number of
complementary markets they could go after.

I could imagine a lot of high net-worth families in Asia being interested in
this, if it's marketed properly (and the proper package of services is put
together etc).

Another regulatory area that could be arbitraged nicely is the inefficient and
irrational processes in the FDA approval programs. Take a little trip to
Blueseed to get your stem cell injection (etc.).

------
PakG1
You know what first came into my mind when I heard about this? Pirate Radio.
:)

~~~
phatbyte
That and "I'm on a boat" from Lonely Island ;)

------
mrpollo
the fact that there's American people trying to get Immigrants into the
country playing in grey areas of the law ( or "hacking" if you want to call it
that ) should be enough for US Lawmakers to fix what they currently have,
theres a big opportunity for the US to exploit its tech culture converting it
to a big incubator, instead they want us to bring money from abroad to get a
"Startup Visa" or they want us paying taxes landing already hired with H1's or
TN's. I dont know much about law and immigration, but in my experience (having
a TN for a year moving to the US only to have it denied after the 1st year and
having to come back to Mexico) the system is really broken, and since no one
from the US has to go through it, it will remain so, until they review and
test it.

------
sendos
This is a terrible, stupid, idea and will never work. Ever.

In addition to the myriad other problems, the logistics alone of keeping that
ship at sea, and keeping everyone fed, healthy, and sane for months if not
years on end will doom this to failure.

------
mattdeboard
This would be a medical nightmare. People from all over the world commingling
their exotic (relative to their shipmates' immune systems) diseases,
infections, virii, etc., is a recipe for huge, huge medical issues.

------
lojack
There's a development company based out of Cleveland that already has a boat.
All they need to do is make it sea worthy...

<http://leandog.com/>

~~~
krobertson
Their boat seems more lake worthy than sea worthy. I couldn't really picture
it out in international waters.

------
VMG
This is also interesting from a libertarian perspective. See
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading>

------
tyler_ball
I guess I'm too isolated from business jargon, but it took me half this
article to realize they weren't talking about a _medical_ incubator.

------
sathishmanohar
> 200-300 crew members in total

That doesn't sound much like a startup to me.

------
Maro
I don't think this hacks the immigration problem.

It just puts people on a boat which happens to be close to Silicon Valley, so
I suppose it's comfortable for VCs to come onboard and see the action?

------
forcer
certainly very creative way of dealing with the imigration problems. But what
if the Startup Visa gets support and will pass? Then surely this project is
doomed to fail and therefore hard to get an investment.

We are thinking of moving to US with our startup (well, more like a business
already with 10 employees and profitable) but I would rather wait for the laws
to change before deciding to live on the boat for extended period of time.

~~~
westbywest
12miles off shore is not terribly far. Telecommute would be quite possible,
assuming this ship would have fast wireless Internet service via some
terrestrial band. (100Mbps+ is quite possible with off-the-shelf unlicensed
equipment in the 5.8GHz band over that distance, faster for licensed.)

I wonder if employees fortunate enough to be granted a visa could then move to
the SF area an then actually commute via high-speed shuttle boat. Telecommute
would suggest that such employees' actual commute need not be daily.

------
eli
Hey, what ever happened to Sealand anyway?

------
moocow01
Ooh neat - when the bubble pops, this could be a fun thing to remember the
stupidity of the bubble by. Kind of like pets.com of the first one.

~~~
grantc
Indeed -- I remember multiple firms trying to do the exact same thing on
mothballed cruise ships during the height of the dotcom bubble (v1).

------
101010010101
This is a rather old problem isn't it? As in early 1990's.

The fact that it has come to this leads me to believe things have not
improved.

Seems to me that either you find a way to get these skilled workers into the
US or they will just form pure plays and compete with American companies from
abroad. Is that true?

------
mkramlich
software startups on land: piracy is annoying or irrelevent

software startups at sea: piracy is deadly or worse

