

Ask HN: What should I consider as I move into freelancing? - mavsman

I&#x27;ve never freelanced before but would like to very shortly. There are three things I&#x27;m really curious about.<p>1. How do I set my rate? I assume I consider how good I am and what skills I know, how much I want, and the market rate but I have no clue what those things might amount to.<p>2. How to get started. I&#x27;m assuming I&#x27;ll get started with Elance, freelancer.com, or a similar site but I really don&#x27;t know the negatives and positives of each. How else do I go about starting to get work?<p>3. Everything else. I know there are a lot of things I don&#x27;t know about this space that are completely unknown to me. I&#x27;m more curious about the first two items but I&#x27;m fully aware that I&#x27;m naive in this sense so open to any thoughts you have to offer here.
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kachhalimbu
I started freelancing 6 months ago and I'm doing ok. I've made the same amount
of money I would have made working a regular job but I only have worked 1/8th
the time (billable work anyways).

To answer your questions

1\. Popular opinion here on HN is to charge by day or per project (considering
what value you bring to the table). I found it hard to implement so I found a
rate that was reasonable for the kind of lifestyle I wanted. This is an
exercise you have to do it yourself. For me I figured out what was my
necessary expenditure (bills + insurance, what was enough for me to keep
myself happy (books,movies,outdoor day/weekend trips etc.). However as soon as
I get my head around actually implementing popular HN advice I'm going to
follow it.

2\. I started with oDesk and so far have only got 1 project out of it. It was
only 3 weeks effort. There is too much competition there and it is hard to
stand out AND get good rate. Rest of the work I found through my network. I
let everyone know I was freelancing, reached out to everyone I knew and asked
if they have any project or any of their friends needed any help.

3\. Following things helped

a. My spouse was working until recently so it was comforting to know we will
at least have food on the table and pay mortgage. If you don't have any
support I suggest build at least 6 months savings first before jumping in or
get a contract first.

b. When I was not working I was either constantly searching for work or
working on side projects.

c. I had a pretty good previous work experience to bank on but if you don't
have any make sure you have some sort of portfolio to showcase your skillset.

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cweagans
1\. Charge by the hour. Your rate is not high enough. IMO, start at around
$100/hour and see where that gets you. Don't fall into the trap of trying to
calculate your expenses and divide them down into 40 hours/wk, etc - that
simply doesn't work. What has worked really well for me is asking the
question: "How much would I want to get paid to not spend the next hour with
my family/dog/whatever is important to you?"

2\. Stay away from oDesk, elance, Freelancer.com, etc. You won't get quality
clients that way, and you'll constantly be competing with some guy that only
charges $8/hr for "expert" level web development. Gun.io has been very nice
for me, and going to networking type events in your area could help too. The
majority of my business comes from people that I've met in person at an event
like this.

3\. Make absolutely sure that you bill for each and every hour you work. No
freebies. You're running a business, not a charity. Get paid before you
deliver the final product. Always have a contract. ALWAYS have a contract. In
most cases, don't let your clients dictate technical solutions to their
problems. They're the client, but you're the expert.

Regarding a contract, you don't necessarily need to know legalese. Putting the
terms in writing is adequate. See
[https://github.com/cweagans/Contract](https://github.com/cweagans/Contract)
for an example. IANAL, YMMV, etc.

~~~
mavsman
All great information. I'd have no idea where to start with a contract so
thank you for that. And for my rate, I really appreciate that as well. There's
no way I'd ever start as "high" as $100 before I read what was said here so
that's really good to know.

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MalcolmDiggs
I've been freelancing on-and-off for about 10 years now. It's been a great
ride, but you're smart to ask about the pitfalls.

To your questions:

1\. The market sets your rate. For better or worse. You can argue a little up,
and a little down. But at the end of the day you can only charge what the
market will bear. In many cases however, that might be higher than you expect.

2\. Build your own projects first. Spend a few weeks cranking out side
projects and throw them up into a portfolio. Once that's done, start
networking. The marketplaces are too commoditized (lowest-bidder type stuff),
I'd stay away from there. Just go to business functions, social functions, etc
and make sure people know what you do and that you're available. Tell your
friends to refer _their_ friends to you. Once you get rolling on your first
client, your sales pipeline should be almost entirely referral based. Focus on
doing such an amazing job with your first client that they run out and tell 10
people, which gets you 10 more jobs.

3\. It's feast and famine. You'll have 6-figure months, you'll have 0-figure
months. You'll need to learn to budget differently than someone on a w2. Save
up a lot of "runway" (I'd recommend a year's worth of living expenses).
Otherwise you'll find yourself in "salesman" mode when you're not even done
with the last client's project yet.

I think the biggest mistake new freelancers make is to just take on any client
who shows up. It pays to be picky. You need to "qualify" the lead, just as
much as they need to vet you. Only take on clients who have demonstrable
ability to pay, are a joy to be around, and see eye-to-eye with you on project
direction.

------
davismwfl
My comments are assuming you are U.S. based.

Get clients through friends, co-workers, previous employers and by going out
and meeting people and companies. Start a blog or contribute to open source
projects etc. That always helps your credibility and also helps you get
recognized over time, but it doesn't happen overnight.

1\. In the U.S. most contract placement agencies will charge between $75 and
$135/hr per person, except in some of the higher cost locals where it will be
more. You are competing against them regardless of what people say, simply
because companies will talk to these agencies when looking at projects only
requiring one or two people to do over a short period. You compete against
them not by lowering your rate, but by offering a solution not a warm body.
Overall, I see rates typically from $100-$185/hr in the South East, some try
to get $225-250 but reality is I see those people losing deals and/or
constantly discounting their rate to get work. Your rate should constantly be
going up as you get more experience and successful projects behind you that
you can point to, but you'll find the point which it is in balance with the
market. Also, discounting your rate is generally a bad idea, don't do it if
you can avoid it. A couple of clients have told me before that they think a
discounted rate means you know you are overpriced and are just looking for a
sucker. Not sure I totally agree, but I don't discount my rate because I never
really have a fixed rate, I will vary it by the job, duration etc.

2\. Avoid these sites, unless you are outside the US in a low cost nation
where you can live on $1-2k USD/month. Use friends, co-workers and previous
employers as a first start and go out and talk to people and companies. We
have found work on Craigslist a number of times where companies were looking
for a "coder" to write their project. I don't get turned off by poorly written
ads, or obviously non-technical people seeking help and will call them up and
discuss their needs. I have walked away with $40-70k deals this way when some
friends looked at the same ad and said it was a waste of their time to call.
Fuck it, call them the worse you find out is the job isn't worth your time but
you can still use practice on your sales pitch and interviewing potential
clients. I have a client right now that I found on Craigslist and called up,
that contract ended up being roughly $60k over the next few months, not bad
for less than an hours work searching craigslist and calling him up. Of course
it took a couple of weeks to get the contract in place etc, but well worth my
time.

3\. There are a ton of things you need to know, get yourself insured, always
have a contract with clients, get paid by the hour, day or week. Demand
payments be timely and stop working when they aren't. Small clients I make pay
weekly or at worst NET 10, medium clients I go NET 10 and up to NET 30 the
larger they get. Accept you will get screwed over a few times with clients not
paying or paying slow, just learn from it and try not to repeat those
mistakes. Set expectations clearly, and avoid clients you feel are going to
have unrealistic expectations, no matter how desperate you are. Don't take on
more then you can do, it will just piss people off (rightfully), at the same
time, don't turn down work, just schedule it for the future when possible.
Don't let small clients drag out the project or let scope creep in. Every
client will try, but small businesses seem to be the worst, they will
call/email you constantly and always want more for free. Don't let people
devalue your time by getting your time for free, you don't have to be rude,
but make them respect that your time is worth money.

