

Square mobile payment system goes live on iPhone, iPad, and Android this week - there
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/11/square-mobile-payment-system-goes-live-on-iphone-ipad-and-andr/

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BigZaphod
Square is pretty cool. I dislike the SSN requirement, though, and haven't yet
setup my account because of it. I know some of the actual people involved with
Square, and I trust they did a good job protecting this stuff, but it still
seems wrong that I need to register an SSN to accept payments from a card but
not if the person happens to be using, say, cash or a check. Why is accepting
a card so different?

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ivankirigin
The difference is credit. When processing a credit card, because fraud is so
rampant, Square needs to at least somewhat vet the merchant.

In fact, the defining characteristic of Square seems to be how LITTLE you need
to do to get a merchant account. You have almost certainly never tried with
conventional systems if you think this is bad.

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jarin
Exactly. Setting up a conventional gateway and merchant account takes weeks at
best, complete with several contracts, credit check, authorization forms, and
several rounds of changes to your website if you're taking payments online.

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staunch
Yeah, but not with PayPal's "Website Payments Pro". It does usually take 2-3
days, but it's really quite painless. It certainly doesn't require a credit
check.

PayPal probably already has an App too, so all they need is to give you is a
reader.

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ivankirigin
Paypal was also revolutionary. Square is doing in the physical world what
Paypal did online.

In both cases, fighting fraud makes or breaks the service.

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staunch
Square is operating online too. That's what the mobile internet-connected
computer is, that their reader is attached to. PayPal App + iPhone + reader =
Square except cheaper, more reliable, and probably accessible to more people.

PayPal was revolutionary. The only thing I see here from Square that's even
kind of new is the reader component, and that is hardly novel.

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jarin
It's up on the App Store for iPhone/iPad already. Found something interesting:
you have to pass a credit check to get a card reader dongle.

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johnrob
That device would be very useful for crooks.

[EDIT] Combined with some custom software, that device could be the easiest
way to copy someone's CC information. A waiter could swipe the card on his
iPhone, before running it on the restaurant's POS machine.

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lanstein
and prostitutes.

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BigZaphod
and drug dealers.

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dmix
Drug dealers do love proof of purchases.

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BigZaphod
How else would you prove your eligibility for the bulk discount?

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nostromo
I am enamored with the spokesperson in that video. He's very mellow, seems
trustworthy, and non-marketing. More companies should use people like this in
their commercials and web videos.

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hboon
I think he's Cameron Kenley Hunt. See the Birdhouse video
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8yRaWY1xV8&feature=playe...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8yRaWY1xV8&feature=player_embedded)
(plugging for a semi-competitor, hah!)

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ivankirigin
Nope, he is Adam Lisagor aka <http://lonelysandwich.com>

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hboon
You probably know him (I don't), but bear with me a little. What about -
<http://cameron.io/about/> ?

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elliottkember
It's very much Adam Lisagor in this video. Funnily enough, Cameron Kenley Hunt
designed Adam's website.

If you don't trust me, trust Gruber.
<http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/02/11/square>

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hboon
I just can't wrap my head around the photos. Like I said, I don't know them.

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jsiarto
I installed and applied for the dongle yesterday. It's pretty quick and
painless--the credit check is a little much, but if it keeps the quality high
I'm ok with that. Plus, this service is just too damn cool to pass up.

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BigZaphod
How could the credit check keep quality high? It's not going to change who I
can accept payment from since the payer doesn't have any connection with
Square. Square isn't lending me any money that I somehow need to pay back when
I accept a payment. So... why check my credit again?

~~~
jsiarto
My understanding is that they use it to verify your identity and it's also
used to set your daily and per-transaction limits. My guess is that this is
just fraud prevention and a way Square can keep scammers off their service.

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stevenwei
Congrats on their launch, but I honestly can't see too much of a market for
their product. I would expect most businesses to get a proper merchant account
and maybe a mobile payment device from Verifone or Visa.

Square can't compete directly with those companies which have established
brands and a long history in the payment industry. They might be able to
target the folks who only occasionally need to process credit cards - say at a
farmer's market, food cart, or when selling something on Craiglist.

But are there really enough people doing that are:

    
    
      - Too small to get a full merchant account
      - Not willing or able to use PayPal
      - And wanting to take credit cards instead of cash/checks and eat the fees?

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BSeward
I'll definitely have mine next time I have a garage sale. I think semi-
licensed SF street cart vendors should be overjoyed. Et cetera. I think
there's a long tail of uses for debit/credit for which an easy solution has
not existed.

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bshep
One of the uses I thought of was when a waiter does not want to or cant split
a bill, simply pay for it and have your friends pay you. You still need to
cope with fees but whats a couple of $$ between friends? ( If you are cheap
you can take the 3% off the tip for the waiter )

Its also a great use for people who do on-site IT work they can charge on the
spot. Just swipe the customers card and you're done.

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Maascamp
This is really cool tech. However I'm not sure if I'd ever be comfortable
swiping my credit card through someone's phone.

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tcdent
Why? Even if someone stores your number and uses it fraudulently, most (all?)
credit card companies will reverse the charges that you didn't approve.

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dhyasama
Care to share a few of your credit card numbers?

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tcdent
I actually thought about dropping my AMEX number just for giggles, but
intentionally exposing it would probably invalidate their guarantee.

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Maascamp
It's still a hassle though. Dealing with fraud and replacing your card is
something I imagine most people would rather avoid having to do.

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1tw
Watching the video it took me a while to work out what was 'wrong' with the
system: it works with cards you swipe, and there's no PIN entry, something I
haven't seen in five years (and won't work with any card issued by my banks).

Of course, the US is a big enough market to support a product like this, but
it still seems odd to launch something that ignores the current standard in
hundreds of other countries, EMV. Not to mention the increasingly popular
contactless payment systems.

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JangoSteve
Usually debit cards require PIN entry and credit cards require signatures.
Even most debit cards can be used as credit cards without requiring PIN entry.
That is one of the reasons the risk is higher for credit cards.

And to that end, Square's screenshot has a line where the customer signs their
name.

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1tw
In the US, perhaps. Chip and PIN is the standard for new credit and debit
cards in the UK - swipe and sign isn't quite obsolete, but it's certainly on
the way out.

This can be a big inconvenience for travellers from the US to the UK (having
worked in a theatre box office at the Edinburgh festival, I can testify to
this). If Square takes off in a big way in the US - I imagine it will - it'll
be similarly inconvenient to visitors from the UK, Europe and elsewhere.

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JangoSteve
Square is meant to be an entry-level credit-card terminal, meaning it's
targeted toward businesses that previously did not accept credit or debit
cards of any kind. It's misleading to say that Square causes an inconvenience
for foreign travellers, since the businesses using it previously did not
accept any kind of plastic payment whatsoever. It only adds convenience,
though not as much convenience as foreign travellers may desire.

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poppysan
I'm glad to see more innovation coming out of St. Louis. I just moved back and
wish there was more of a startup community.

