
The World's Lightest Electric Vehicle - zachallia
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/170315130/boosted-boards-the-worlds-lightest-electric-vehicl
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pg
This is one of those things that's like Google in the sense that it seems to
be just an improvement on existing technology, but in fact is enough of an
improvement that it's qualitatively different.

In all the startups we've funded I don't think I've seen one whose product was
so enthusiastically embraced by YC partners. Three bought one of these boards.
One says it "changed his life."

~~~
jonnycowboy
At a 1,000$ pricepoint I'm not so sure it will be good enough for the masses,
especially for such a standard powered longboard setup. Longboards can be
found for 100$, add two 50$ brushless motors, a belt-drive setup and a
controller, I don't think they can justify that profit margin. I'd expect that
with a BMW StreetCarver truck setup, it would be a much easier sell (in fact I
would probably buy one). With regards to the product design, I think you'll
find the unsupported belt pulley to cause motor failure in normal use (these
type of brushless motors are not designed for sideloading, even with dual ball
bearings).

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skdoo
We're starting with a longboard setup that costs over $300 retail. The reason
those sell is because they have lots of advantages over $100 longboards.

We are still refining our transmission design, but even in its current form,
we haven't had a bearing issue or motor failure in the past year of continuous
and rigorous testing.

~~~
Brashman
I've tended to find the $300+ price tags on Loaded boards to be a bit high,
but they are head and shoulders much better than anything you can find for
$100. This is really exciting to see a motorized version of an actual good
longboard.

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IanDrake
This sounds cool, but (IMO) it's actually a bad idea. When I was in my late
teens / early twenties, I essentially had a 180HP version of this.

It was a lot more expensive back then: $4,000 for the 1984 Chevy Blazer and $0
dollars for an extension cord we found in the garage, but going going fast on
a skateboard, no matter what the method, is dangerous.

The worst part of this idea is "braking". I can assure you the only good way
to brake a skate board at speed is a power slide, which you need to be an
expert to do.

I've hit sand at speed and, even knowing it was coming, the slight braking
power of the sand was enough to throw me. It's difficult to explain, but
between knowing how far to lean against the braking force AND managing your
balance side to side on the trucks, it ends up being harder to pull off than a
good ole power slide.

That said, a roller blade version of this would be cool.

~~~
njoubert
Are you suggesting that, because it takes skill to operate, it's a bad idea?

I commute on my longboard every day between the parking structure on campus
and my building, which is about a mile away - takes me 10 minutes of kicking
the board around and working up a sweat.

An electric longboard woud fit right into my current commute, except I'd
arrive at work without my shirt soaked through.

For this type of commuting, a couple of days practice in a empty parking
garage or lot gets you good enough to safely commute, and if the SF hills are
intimidating, you can always walk down them.

As for braking, they indicate that the remote does have a brake slider, and by
using regenerative braking, they can slow the board down (to some extent). You
would still need to know how to brake the board, but the board can stop
itself.

This would also be a super fun toy - I already take my longboard out to race
down hills, with this I get to ride up before I fly down.

But, a rollerblade version? Can you explain how that doesn't have the same
concerns you raised? Rollerblades are even more difficult to brake than
skateboards, and you're committed on rollerblades, while on a skateboard you
can jump off and carry the board whenever it's inappropriate or too difficult
to ride it. There's also zero cost to hopping on a skateboard, while
rollerblades involves sitting down and changing your shoes.

I doubt this product will fix all of the transportation woes of the US (which
their marketing seems to point to), but it's great for current longboarders
and people already interested in unconventional transportation options.

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IanDrake
>Are you suggesting that, because it takes skill to operate, it's a bad idea?

Jeeze, I guess I did, I must be getting old. It is a cool idea.

>But, a rollerblade version? Can you explain...

Setup aside, going fast on roller blades is much more controlled than on a
skateboard. You can't bail, sure, but you also won't get the death wobbles.

At speed, you can inline your feet (one foot in front of the other) and put
80% of your weight on your back foot, since the only instability is front to
back. This guards you against pebbles, cracks, and what not. You have the same
side to side stability as a someone riding a bike.

Skateboards at speed have instability front to back (obviously your weight is
back to guard against pebbles, etc..) but also side to side. Keeping the death
wobbles away takes a lot of practice.

Behind the Blazer I got up to 45Mph on my blades, but not even close to that
on a skate board (with tight trucks and soft wheels). At the time I considered
myself to be about equal in terms of skill with both.

(edit for line break)

~~~
barrkel
It was a surprise to me when I learned it on a motorbike safety course, but
it's useful to know that an impact with a solid object at 35mph is only 50%
survivable - a blow to the torso at that speed will tear the aorta. It's even
worse if the object is something small in profile like a lamp or sign post.

Here's a forum post by a guy who was lucky to survive a crash at 30mph (some
nasty post-op pictures - may be NSFW):
<http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=253168>

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noonespecial
I've been building that project over and over since I was 14. My first try was
a "Vision Gator" skateboard with a 35watt brushed dc motor and vacuum cleaner
belts for drive.

It is astonishing (and more than a little awesome) that you can pack 2kw of
motor power and so much range into so small a space now. Oh how I wish parts
like this had been available in 1989.

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thomas-st
Seems like it's illegal to use in California:
<http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21968.htm>

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skdoo
We're still researching all the legal issues that vary from state to state. So
far, we've never heard of a ticket being issued, and all the cops who have
seen it think it's a fantastic idea. I think the biggest factor will be how
responsible our new users are.

~~~
jonnycowboy
You might have luck in voluntarily limiting the power output to 1,000W and
trying to follow the California guidelines for electric bicycles. Then
gradually petition the government to delete the current motorized skateboard
law.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Californi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#California)

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typicalrunt
Great idea. I'm surprised nobody has done this before (but they probably have,
I'm no longer a skateboarder).

But I'm wondering about the prices. $10 stickers and $40 t-shirts are still
advertising, so people are paying to advertise for your company? That doesn't
seem right.

In reality, they are really trying to push people to spend $1200 for a board.
Even the $1099 pledge is a complete rip-off since you spend $100 less than the
pledge that gets you a board, and they only give you a $100 coupon when you
buy your first board for full price. That doesn't make sense.

A suggestion: create a small batch (5) of $500 or $700 pledges that provide a
board. That kicks everyone into gear to get that pledge as soon as possible
and fight over the $500 pledge spot.

~~~
avree
The pricing seems like a complete rip-off, to be honest. $10 for a sticker?
$40 for a t-shirt? $1000 for a skateboard?

For comparison, you can buy a top-of-the-line longboard for $200, full kit. An
essentially equivalent product [1] is selling for $500 a pop, half the price.
That's more in line with what I'd pay for a luxury product like this.

Also, I'm not sure how comfortable this would actually be to carry around.
Most longboards are around 7 pounds... this says "12 to 15" in the
description. So, basically, this is going to feel like I'm carrying two
skateboards around, not one.

[1] - [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1645804961/the-zboard-
th...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1645804961/the-zboard-the-weight-
sensing-electric-skateboard?ref=live)

~~~
sequoia

        $10 for a sticker? $40 for a t-shirt? $1000 for a skateboard?

You are not "buying a sticker" or a t-shirt. The offer is " _donate_ to this
project and receive a 'thank you gift'." This is referred to as a "premium"
and can be seen in the USA in Public Radio fund drives: "Give $60 and get an
NPR mug" they are not "selling really expensive mugs," they are soliciting
donations and giving gifts or "premiums" in exchange.

A premium is, basically by definition, worth much less than your donation.
Giving a premium with a $100 cash value for a $100 donation would not be a
good way to raise money. ;)

~~~
avree
My understanding is that Kickstarter is a _funding_ platform, not a _donation_
platform.

Funding and donation have very different connotations.

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sequoia
actually I'd like to hear more about this because it looks like a donation
platform to me and I'm confused about this. You give money -> don't
necessarily get anything in return, this alone fits the definition of
"donation" to me. When you do get "premiums", they are typically worth far
less than the value of your donation (stickers for $20, eat lunch with the
team for $5k etc.). Again this fits the donation model.

I'm referring to "donation" model vs. "goods/services exchanged for money"
model. I think both of those can be "funding." Anyway I am very interested in
this perspective and in particular why someone wouldn't consider giving money
in exchange for as little as nothing a "donation."

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ChuckMcM
Sounds cool, but even a 95% efficient 2kW brushless motor would be dissipating
100W of heat. Not easy to dump in a small package. I've never tried building a
skateboard but I've built quite a few mobile robots (and a few battlebots).
Wish they had a bit more detail on the tech.

~~~
skdoo
Part of our tech is very efficient, compact, and (relatively) cheap brushless
motor controllers. It's not easy.

~~~
jonnycowboy
How are you cooling the motors?

~~~
indiecore
I'd assume that you'd have a rad over the bottom of the board and the motor
housing that uses the air going by as it moves to dump the heat. At least
that's my first idea, since I'm not a skateboard engineer it's probably not
even close.

~~~
sbierwagen
They'll just be air-cooled: 2KW motors in a skateboard are going spend very
little of their time running at max load.

I of course have no idea what the average load is, but a reasonable wild ass
guess is ~100W.

~~~
ChuckMcM
My experience with DC motors was that they got hottest when starting and
stopping, that was the result of a high current demand for torque and
relatively low operating speed with meant minimal airflow. If you're going up
a hill you're easily burning 1 - 1.5 HP or a .75 - 1kW of power. They look
very cool, can't wait to see one 'in the flesh' as it were.

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skdoo
Co-founder here. Feel free to ask questions!

~~~
polshaw
2KW sounds a hell of a lot, when a 250W motor on a bike can get up to 20mph?
Do you actually use the full 2KW of power? it seems like it would throw the
rider to me.

I'm willing to bet from ebike knowledge that the regenerative braking is more
of a marketing feature, and may not even break even with the added weight.
Have you done tests on this?

Others have touched upon price so i'll ask if you had any concerns about
liabilities? and are you hoping to grow organically post-kickstarter, or a
funding round?

~~~
skdoo
The key is to have enough power for hills, but make it controlled enough that
you don't throw the rider. From the rider's perspective, the board has so much
power it's like the hill isn't even there, but it's still gentle on
acceleration and braking.

Regen braking doesn't add any weight for us.

Liability is an issue for sure, and we're handling it just like any other
vehicle or consumer product.

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massarog
Isn't this the same thing? Was launched on kickstarter months ago:
<http://www.zboardshop.com/>

~~~
MartinCron
The zboard is a different design in that you don't have a hand-held remote,
you press on footpads to accelerate/brake.

I would have to try them both out to see which is a better solution to the
control problem.

edit: another key difference is that this is 12 pounds vs the 30 to 37 pounds
for the zboard. That difference is HUGE.

~~~
zzzmarcus
Absolutely. The weight difference is definitely the biggest difference.

I've ridden longboards with both foot and hand brakes. All the hand braking
boards I've tried had a cable from the board to the controls and even with
that hassle, I much prefer them to the foot brakes. Moving your foot around
and trying to get even pressure at 20mph is a lot more tricky than squeezing a
lever.

~~~
MartinCron
I'm interested in getting into longboarding. Would you be willing to share the
name of the hand braking board you've used?

~~~
zzzmarcus
Looks like it's evolved some since I used it, but this is the company:
<http://www.skatebrake.com/products.html>

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liamondrop
`The last mile of transportation is this huge problem that hasn't been solved
yet`

Really? I think we've had it solved for at least several million years. Anyone
that isn't capable of walking or skating a mile is certainly not going to be
served by this. It looks like a cool toy, but I don't think it's going to
revolutionize transportation.

~~~
natrius
"Last mile" is a transportation (and telecommunications) term that doesn't
mean a literal mile. It's the last leg of your trip. Solutions to the last
mile problem _will_ revolutionize transportation, though this probably isn't
that solution. I'd bet on bike sharing systems.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_mile_(transportation)>

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moreati
I was surprised by 2 kW. I have an electric moped that's 2 kW - and in that
class 1.5 kW is more typical. Maybe a burst vs steady state spec

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cpeterso
Why is the only woman in the Kickstarter video little more than a prop
watching the boys play with their toys?

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asdfs
How many Ah is the battery? It seems extremely small for the quoted 6 mile (@
20mph?) range.

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Permit
Looks pretty awesome, but the price tag instantly puts it out of range for a
student like myself. Hopefully they attain some level of success such that
they can mass manufacture them and bring the price down.

I'd love to have one.

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Robby2012
I love it but isn't it freaking expensive?

~~~
stephengillie
Putting a skateboard on top of a $100 RC car would be less elegant.

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ricardobeat
Looks like a great technologic improvement, but not revolutionary at all. A
search for "electric skateboard" returns a dozen manufacturers, some with
similar specs, most much cheaper - yes, they have that bulge going on but it
doesn't change much in terms of feasibility. A skateboard is still not a
viable means of daily transportation unless your route consists solely of
smooth, untrafficked asphalt and you're a lucky person.

Why not sell it by what it is (a very cool electric longboard), instead of
making surreal claims about changing the world?

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orangethirty
My only concern is the belt driven drivetrain. I used to race R/C cars who
used the same time of layout (belts and plastic/aluminum gears), and the belts
did not last that long. Given that this board would be pushing a fair amount
of weight around, I don't see how it would last over a reasonable time frame.
Though I'm just speculating. If anyone can chime in with more data, I'd love
to know about it. Maybe the belts are kevlar reinforced? I know there are
suppliers making those and they are readily available.

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arikrak
It sounds like it could be dangerous enough to lead to lawsuits. I think
there's a reason why electric scooters are much more common than electric
skateboards: people can stay on them.

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ulyssesgrant
What exactly will/could change between the 1st, 2nd, and final production
runs? The board is compelling, and it does fill a spot that I and many
students likely have, but unless the price comes down I don't see how this
will take off.

edit: Also, after these boards do reach final production, do you plan on
expanding your tech to other loaded longboards? Never loved the vanguard, but
the tan tien is great.

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ck2
I think I've actually seen these on DIY electric bike boards?

I would recommend a direct drive motor though, less parts to break, direct
torque.

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HyprMusic
I can't help but think if you're willing to carry around a long board for your
journey, the extra effort in pushing it manually is not much and probably more
fun (I can't really judge, having not used the product).

If you were really against walking or pushing, then a foldable bike would be a
lot more useful, safer and cheaper.

~~~
muraiki
Where I live, there are many urban areas but also many hills / roads with long
inclines. Longboarding isn't that popular here because:

1) You can't longboard up a hill, or even much of an incline. 2) More
importantly, when you go _down_ a hill, it's pretty difficult to stop quickly
(this is why I personally stopped longboarding)

This device would help with both problems!

~~~
wwweston
> More importantly, when you go _down_ a hill, it's pretty difficult to stop
> quickly (this is why I personally stopped longboarding)

This might help you stop the _longboard_ quickly, but will it help _you_ stop
quickly (but not too quickly)?

~~~
muraiki
Good point! The stop will never be instant... and you'd better have good grip
on your shoes, too.

While I think this product will be pretty neat, I can't see it revolutionizing
transportation simply because longboarding requires a good amount of mental
energy in comparison to a scooter or bike. But I have to admit, it is
seriously fun, and the sensation of gliding is awesome.

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abecedarius
This looks like a fantastic product. But how about a video with at least a
minute of uninterrupted actual use? The video is very slick but only a small
fraction of its 3 minutes goes to people using it, with no clip longer than 2
or 3 seconds (as far as I can remember).

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duked
I went saw the descriptions the pictures and it looks awesome until I saw the
price, I'm not saying it's not worth it: I have no idea how much they have
invested in R&D/prototyping etc.. but it's too much for me $1000 for an
electric board :/ too bad.

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will_work4tears
This would be really cool if it was rechargeable by use rather than merely
plugging it in.

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BasDirks
Love the disclaimer, love the realism ++ the idealism. F __* the danger, let's
board.

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wheelerwj
As I scrolled up to kickstart it myself, I saw the price. Thanks but I can
walk.

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Toenex
In the UK all such novel forms of transport have to first shake off the C5
effect <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5>

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jazzdev
I got to ride one of these at Disrupt today. Inside, in a crowd, but still
impressive tech. Smooth acceleration. I do ride boards, so I'm not a newbie.
Loved it. I want one.

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Poiesis
Ok, I have a 5.6 mile commute each way, with 300 feet ascent worst case (just
under 100 ft descent). Charging at work is no problem. Is this going to be a
good fit?

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marquis
I have zero balance. If this were a scooter I'd be in.

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Datonomics
Maybe the following title would attract more people willing to invest:
Electric longboard: 12 lbs, 6 mi range, $1,099

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TomatoTomato
Are batteries quickly replaceable? i.e. If I had a spare battery in my pack, I
could change it out and continue on?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Or can it come with a larger pack to begin with? Avoid changing it at all.

~~~
TomatoTomato
If they don't do it, I'm sure someone will hack multiple batteries together
and post a how to.

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brianstorms
Great, empowering more idiots to set out on public thoroughfares and ignore
every basic traffic law (stop signs, red lights, for starters; look 'em up if
you're not familiar with the concepts) not to mention common sense.

Ought to produce a few Darwin Award winners.

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dredmorbius
Chiseled spam.

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ph0rque
Does it do regenerative braking?

~~~
ph0rque
Also, it would be really cool if a few years from now, the board became the
battery.

