
Show success before asking for help - danielh
http://sivers.org/success-first
======
mdasen
Most definitely. But it isn't like people are out to get you. Once you've
shown success, people think (rightly or not) that you can duplicate it again.
And they want in on that. They want to invest their money there because it
seems more assured.

If you haven't shown any past success, then you're a risk. What makes you more
likely to succeed than any random person?

This is why I like to have a few nice, running web apps of my own. When
applying for jobs, they show that I've "succeeded" on my own (beyond what I
might have contributed to on a team at my previous jobs). Sure, there are
probably many people much smarter than me who don't have such apps to show
off. However, my past "success" (at writing code and bringing it to
production) is there.

The problem with the $15,000 songwriter that the article mentions is that they
were a risk when first signed and so they only got a little. Even as they've
proven themselves not to be a risk with their weekly submissions, they already
accepted the bad terms and there's little reason for the record company to be
"nice" and give them more. Likewise, if the $500,000 advance person is
terrible, the record company has agreed to certain terms and there's no reason
for them to be "nice" and renegotiate down because they're crap.

The largest part of this is that if something looks like it will succeed with
or without help, it seems like a sure thing. Sure things don't require the
rewards of high risk things because the chance of loss is low.

~~~
Alex3917
It's generally less that people think that you'll be able to do what you did
last time again, and more that people believe that you're the kind of person
who delivers on their promises. If you want to get a promotion at work to best
place to start might be doing something as simple as taking everyone's lunch
orders and getting them right. The point isn't to show that you're really
talented in one specific area, but rather to create an asset, that asset being
a group of people who trust you'll deliver on your promises.

~~~
blader
" If you want to get a promotion at work to best place to start might be doing
something as simple as taking everyone's lunch orders and getting them right.
"

Dang, that is good advice.

------
jasondavies
This is what happens on the Dragon's Den. The Dragons are much more likely to
invest in someone who can prove that they can make a small success on their
own, and who has the balance sheet or sales statistics to prove it.

Even if someone has a stellar product or service, if they have only sold a
meagre amount to friends and family in two years the Dragons start to get
tetchy and either ditch them, or ask for a huge chunk of the company in return
for their investment.

Of course, I'm sure the Dragon's Den isn't necessarily much like the real
world, but it's interesting to note the things they look for.

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marcofloriano
The lesson is good and true for us, IT guys. But the idea behind getting help
is exactly that, to show success. If you can show success by yourself why you
need then ? So even your trust grows up when you have a happy past, but the
problem with new "good" guys is that they don´t have sufficient confidence to
pursuit the success by the lack of a past success history. So maybe the big
trick is to trust until the end that you can be a success by yourself and then
get the world.

------
noonespecial
Its just like the first rule of bank loans. The best way to get a loan is not
to need one.

------
edw519
"I quickly took it to the Xerox machine, made a copy, and put it back."

1\. Don't leave anything confidential out on your desk.

2\. Don't let this guy loose in your office.

3\. Ethical behavior should be a prerequisite to blogging :)

[EDIT: This was downvoted within 2 minutes of posting, _exactly_ what I
expected. It happens every time. Why do people here have such a problem when
someone mentions ethical behavior? Is is because they don't want to be
preached to or is it because they want to do whatever they want, consequences
be damned? Either way, a down vote should be accompanied by a comment. AFAIC,
nothing OP had to say mattered once I understood _how_ he got his raw data.]

~~~
anamax
> AFAIC, nothing OP had to say mattered once I understood how he got his raw
> data.

Why does that make sense?

~~~
axod
Perhaps data is only correct if it was acquired ethically? :/ Maybe the
unethical collection of data introduces large margins of error from the ethic-
goblins.

~~~
edw519
You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with the correctness of the
data, and everything to do with the means used to collect it. See also:
torture & search warrants.

~~~
axod
Torture introduces possible error into data. So it's an extremely bad analogy.

Picking up a sheet of paper doesn't call the validity of the data into
question. It's still the same data.

------
udekaf
With a fixed amount of money, people tend to invest less money to risky
business. People without past success are more risky. They just follow the
common sense.

------
known

        	Show success before asking for help.

This is exactly what VCs always have in mind.

------
infinibuy
I can't believe so many people are missing the moral of the story and focusing
on the ethics part of it. Its not like he was harming anyone by making the
copy and I'll bet he thought ethics was the last thing people on the blog
would be talking about.

Now for the meat and potatos of the story: I think that you can apply this
lesson (making it on your own before you ask for help) to many other areas
other than the music business. Lets say you were looking for VC funding, don't
you think the people funding it would be more impressed if you got your idea
up and running without any help? When you do things with little or no help it
shows determination and a will to succeed no matter what the odds are.

~~~
Lagged2Death
It could be that people are focusing on the ethics because the "meat and
potatoes" of the story are stupid.

The author's main point is: if you're rich and famous, people are more likely
to treat you as if you're rich and famous.

The author says you have to "make your own success," and as an example, he
points to a "really bad metal" songwriter who was "in a band with a major rock
star" and who helped to sell 20M records.

But surely not even the author believes for a second that this songwriter
managed to sell 20M records "on his own." Surely there were publishers,
promoters, record companies etc. involved, yes? If the songwriter in question
was a surprise indie hit, surely the author would have said so?

I think the very idea that a business deal involving an advance payment is
somehow a charitable cause ("asking for help") dramatically illustrates the
the arrogance, the star-struck cult of fame and money that's brought the music
business so low.

~~~
menloparkbum
In the music industry, don't you have to pay an advance back?

Wouldn't that mean an already rich songwriter can pay it back, even if he
bombs?

