
Patch's new owner lays off staff in 1:39 conference call - coloneltcb
https://soundcloud.com/jim-romenesko/sounds-from-wednesday-morning
======
arethuza
I had to lay quite a few people off in 2002 when the company I co-founded in
'95 was acquired (post IPO) by another company who then tanked. I was the only
founder/exec who stuck with the acquirer and I got the dubious pleasure of
laying off everyone in our office before I was myself laid off by the roving
HR manager.

One thing that I'm slightly proud of is that when I had to lay people off at
least I did it myself to their face - quite a few thanked me for the time
they'd had and some even wished it had turned out better for _me_ \- which was
rather humbling.

~~~
Touche
Wait, did you know you were going to be laid off too?

~~~
Gracana
I don't think so. As I understand it, they wished things had worked out better
for him because he was a founder/exec and a bunch of layoffs means it's
already going down the drain.

~~~
arethuza
What happened was that post acquisition there were 3 or so rounds of lay offs
each removing about 50% of staff until there was maybe a dozen of us left from
the original acquired team. In an attempt to save the team we pitched a new
product, which actually had customer interest, to the CEO of the acquirer and
he promised he would think about it and come back with an answer.

On the day when we got the call from the CEO to tell us whether our proposal
was good or not rather than it being myself and our Director of Engineering on
our side of the call we had all twelve in the room (although the guys on the
other side of the call had no idea).

We were told it wasn't going to happen, so everyone knew at that point what
was going to happen next. I seem to remember something like laying most of the
remaining people off, going to see the HR manager - finding out that my
severance package wasn't going to be what I thought it was and I could take a
cheque there and then or fight it in court.

By that point I was so tired of the whole thing I took the cheque without a
fight and moved on....

[NB I was involved in actually doing a substantial portion of the lay offs in
each phase - after a while people really did _not_ want to have 1 on 1
meetings with me].

~~~
gaius
I think in your situation I would have made HR do their own dirty work.

------
codegeek
This kind of behavior (promoted by HR/Legal) needs to stop. Period.

It is not about firing people by conference, phone or whatever. It is about
the thanklessness and the attitude that sucks. Does it really hurt to
genuinely feel and say "sorry we cannot keep you any longer. Hope you
understand". No one is going to sit and whine about being laid-off but the
manner of layoffs (in america at least) is getting shameful, appalling and
disgusting.

However, not shocking at all. Companies have too become risk/lawsuit averse
when it comes to firing/lay-offs that they all have scripted things to say
because they don't want to risk a potential lawsuit. My friend was laid-off by
my ex-boss (I referred him and left). I know that my ex-boss was a really nice
guy who would at least apologize. During the lay-off, all my friend got was
"Your position has been eliminated. Please do not use any company device and
leave immediately. We will ship your stuff to you". He was even told not to
talk to any co-worker while leaving. Poor guy was so heartbroken that he could
not even say bye to people he worked with. You know what he was not sad about
? Finding another job.

May be I am overreacting but this is when Capitalism starts to bite. I am all
in for profits, competitions, fierce business but if I _ever_ have to layoff
someone specially for no fault of theirs, you bet I will say sorry in
person.It may not mean much but it is called "being human".

~~~
protomyth
Its not Capitalism, its Lawyerism. The sad fact that you can get sued for
being something other than a robot is horrible. The HR / Lawyer part of our
economy is one heck of an anchor compared to the legitimate wrongful
termination and employment discrimination.

~~~
001sky
What's crazy is that the US is an "at will" employment law. Which means you
can get fired (or quit) for any trivial reason at all what so ever (the
meaning of 'at will'). The only people with legal recourse are protected
classes (ie, minorities). But it would be both improbable and abusive if mass-
lafoffs were only legal fodder in this context. Who the heck else is suing and
for what? Or is it just the threat of lawsuits (bad pr) and no-fee lawyers
(1/3 ransom) that facilitates this as some sort of "greenmail"? What an odd
system!

~~~
protomyth
> What's crazy is that the US is an "at will" employment law.

I live in an "at will" state and it hasn't been a problem. I believe in
freedom of association.

~~~
TheCoelacanth
The crazy part is that it's virtually impossible to successfully sue for
wrongful termination, but companies still go to extreme lengths to cover their
asses.

~~~
erichurkman
I can see going to heavy lengths at certain company sizes, like Wal-Mart. A
flaw in your HR policy at that scale can escalate to a class action or large
case that district attorneys lust after. Wal-Mart, for instance, has paid out
hundreds of millions in legal suits stemming from HR practices in the last
decade alone.

------
jere
I had a recruiter send me an email exactly 5 months ago today claiming "I've
placed ten folks with AOL in the past year, and Patch is the most profitable
and exciting division especially for the engineers."

First time I've ever had to respond to a recruiter to tell them they were full
of shit.

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/08/09/layoffs...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/08/09/layoffs-
begin-as-aol-looks-to-close-or-sell-400-patch-sites/)

~~~
badman_ting
Well, I guess you could call this exciting.

~~~
notahacker
Potentially profitable too, if you're a recruiter looking for job
candidates...

------
pvnick
Wow. That was incredible. The monotonous way in which the message was
delivered, the complete lack of emotion and empathy, is appalling. Notice she
did not apologize nor express any condolences beyond declaring the new
unemployed state of those people to be "unfortunate." Without knowing much
about the situation (I only listened to the recording), and leaving myself
wide open to be corrected by someone with more insight into the background, I
believe the word _cowardice_ would be a pretty good description of what's
going on here.

~~~
sneak
I heard it as coldly professional. What, do you think they'd want a hug? I
object to your use of "appalling".

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo7zkd0kRS4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo7zkd0kRS4)

~~~
codegeek
Why do professional and being nice have to be mutually exclusive ? Why do we
have to be "coldly professional" and not "morally/humanly professional" ? No
one is complaining about layoffs here. What is being complained about is the
_way_ companies are treating their employees. I don't expect a handout or a
hug and can find my own work if I get fired. But if you fire me the way these
guys did, you will surely never be on my list of good people. May be that does
not matter to some.

~~~
swayvil
professional = I want to eat you

nice = I want to help you

professional + nice = I want to eat you and help you?

Now that doesn't work at all.

~~~
codegeek
An analogy like that can be used in many ways. Here is my version:

professional = I have to eat you (not want)

nice = I am sorry (being nice is not only about helping)

professional + nice = I have to eat you and I am sorry.

~~~
daemin
I am sorry but I have to eat you.

?

~~~
brianmcdonough
I drank your milkshake, ha ha ha.

------
wlll
The next one is a gem too:

~1:55 in: "Abel, put that camera down right now. Abel, you're fired, out."

[https://soundcloud.com/jim-romenesko/aol-ceo-tim-
armstrong-8...](https://soundcloud.com/jim-romenesko/aol-ceo-tim-
armstrong-8-9-2013)

~~~
Zancarius
I like how just 30 seconds prior, he mentions somewhat off-handedly that he
doesn't care if anyone leaks anything to the press.

~~~
mikeg8
I noticed that too, I guess he does care.

------
rdl
In addition to the "firing people by conference call is a douche move", her
voice is an excellent argument against hiring any non-Australian with the high
rising terminal mode of speech.

~~~
sp332
I would say "American" (edit- instead of "non-Australian"). It's pretty common
in other English dialects. There's a great series called "The Story of Film"
which is narrated by an Irish guy who uses rising inflection on nearly every
sentence. It's difficult for me to get used to but I wouldn't give anyone a
hard time about it.

edit2 - fixed title.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Film:_An_Odyssey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Film:_An_Odyssey)
It's available on Netflix

~~~
JonnieCache
The irish and welsh accents have always been like that. The welsh accent in
particular modulates in pitch strongly throughout sentences, going up at the
end is just part of it.

There's a thing where it plunges right down in pitch and timbre at the end
too, for a different kind of emphasis. I love welsh voices.

~~~
keithpeter
I just heard great nana Parry telling me off when I read that (Nana spoke
Welsh and a few words of English). If she was alive now, she would be about
140. Thanks.

Reporters. Local. Might not be so easy for them to find jobs. But hopefully
_new media_ skills will help.

------
chubot
I don't think it's that bad. It was formal and distant, but not insulting.
It's more insulting when someone _pretends_ they are sorry, but actually
aren't. If she's not actually sorry, and there are perfectly valid reasons not
to be, then it actually shows more spine to just say it like it is.

Actions speak louder than words, and we don't know what the "separation
packages" are. They could actually be good, for all you know.

We don't have the context on what it was like working there. Some
places/professions are more "mercenary" than others. In Silicon Valley people
are used to "company culture" and "team building", but not all companies need
that.

------
xutopia
I didn't hear of Patch until today. This seems like a private call between
employees and someone responsible for HR. Why is this news? Is Patch a big
name?

~~~
bchjam
In spite of the fact that some group of people lost their jobs, the audio
track is kind of funny in the sense that this real HR department sounds like a
parody of what tech people think of HR departments.

~~~
scrabble
I don't know. I got laid off 18 months ago. HR did it to my face (bringing in
a small group of people at a time). It sounded almost identical to this, tone
and everything. More realistic than parody.

~~~
Gracana
No matter what they say, you're still losing your job and it's going to sting.
I think the message was pretty reasonable, it just sucks that they did it by
phone.

------
talove
I don't see anything wrong with this. It conveyed all the information you'd
probably need to know right away. It was direct.

From my experience the worst thing you can do is empathize and apologize. Just
break the news, and move forward.

It's a business.

------
IvyMike
The fact that it was over the phone is a legitimate insult.

The fact that it was 100 seconds long is a mercy.

~~~
aaronharder
Honest question, why is a phone firing such an insult? I may need some
sensitivity training, but putting myself in the shoes of the person being
fired I think I'd probably prefer phone. Maybe someone can help me see the
other point of view more clearly.

~~~
IvyMike
As smackfu says, it is not always possible to do a layoff or firing in person,
especially in this case. I still think they should have been done in one-on-
one phone calls at a minimum.

But people have a spectrum of reactions to being fired, and I think being able
to address their immediate concerns one-on-one is important. They may have
done it this way in the name of efficiency, but some times it is better to
just take the hit and do things the old fashioned way. Nobody is happy about
being laid off, but six months from now both employer and ex-employee will
feel better about it than the impersonal conference call.

------
knodi
Laying people off is never easy. I'm sure many people will poopoo this call
but this is a clean and a clear message.

~~~
tylerlh
Except it wasn't delivered face to face, which in my mind is worth
'poopooing'... and my goodness, the monotone voice...

~~~
TeMPOraL
Sounds like something I'd expect to hear in Aperture Science (seconds before
the floor gets flooded with neurotoxin), not in a company staffed by human
beings. Poopoo well deserved, IMO.

------
Frostbeard
It seems pretty harsh to do it this way, but from the sounds of things these
were pretty sweeping layoffs ("hundreds" is what's being said). Doing it on a
personal level probably wasn't even remotely viable, even just in terms of
time.

~~~
munificent
If you have hundreds of employees who can find the time time to work for you
day-in and day-out, every week, you can find the time to let them go in
person.

~~~
Tehnix
>who can find the time time to work for you day-in and day-out, every week

It's not like they do it out of good will. They get paid for it. That said, I
agree that it should be done face-to-face.

------
sdegutis
I bet this woman was really upset that she had to layoff that many people at
once (she probably lived in another state so she couldn't do it in person). I
imagine that's the reason she said it like she was ripping off a bandaid.

------
snydeq
"Hello, and welcome to AOL Moviefone. To be acquired and laid off, please
press 1."

------
Yver
This would be funny if it wasn't so infuriating. I tried to listen to it but I
cringe too easily so I'm waiting for a transcript. Based on the first few
sentences of the call, here's how I expect the rest of the speech to go:

 _"...you no longer have a role in the company. And by role I meant job. You
no longer have a job. Unless you had another job, in which case you still have
at least one. Point is, you're fired. From this company. It's Patch calling by
the way."_

------
omegote
Could any of you transcript the call? My english is not good enough for
<48kbps transmissions.

~~~
smackfu
"Hi Everyone, it's (HR person). Patch is being restructed, in conjunction with
the creation of a joint structure with Hale Global. Hale Global has decided
which Patch employees will receive an offer of employment to move forward in
accordance with their vision for Patch, and which will not. Unfortunately,
your role has been eliminated and you will no longer have a role at Patch, and
today will be your last day of employment with the company."

The rest is just general termination junk like turning in laptops and turning
off email.

------
dgrab24
Love it. A great HR-scripted call.

~~~
callesgg
They should have used text 2 voice software.

That would have made it seam a bit more personalized.

~~~
sgt
Agreed, I would have preferred:

$ say -v "Bad News" "Unfortunately your role has been eliminated and you will
no longer have a role at patch. Today will be your last day of employment with
the company"

~~~
dgrab24
That's what happens when lawyers and HR people get involved. Can't get sued,
so read the script...

------
ciokan
Up in the air anyone? :))
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1193138/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1193138/)

~~~
mrjatx
I was thinking of Company Men, another great movie.

------
aabalkan
What is Patch?

~~~
timmaah
Site that the CEO of AOL founded before joining AOL. Then bought once hired at
AOL and poured millions into before being forced to cutback/sell to keep his
AOL job.

~~~
zmanian
Tim Armstrong is the current CEO of AOL and former senior Google Executive. He
is reputed to have been the driving force behind the success of Google's Ad
Words business.

He seemed to become less effective at Google as his responsibilities expanded
and moved on to AOL.

Patch was his big play to make AOL relevant again and has proved to be a
complete economic failure.

Highlights an unfortunate reality of the Silicon Valley that past success can
sometimes just mean a longer rope to hang yourself with.

The reality is that running AOL is thankless job.

------
bonemachine
Soulless and robotic, to be sure. And eerily so.

But what else should we expect from the owners of a news portal that was, from
the outset, itself nothing other than soulless and robotic, to its very core
-- and whose passing almost no one is likely to mourn?

("No one", that is, except of course those who've recently found out they "no
longer have a role with Patch", along with their unlucky dependents).

------
sergiotapia
This made me sick to my stomach and I don't even work there.

"Hey you're fired tomorrow, thanks for your work!"

------
mkr-hn
I stopped using the local Patch when they broke the commenting system. I don't
know what broke, I just can't comment, and no one else does either. The
comments were the best part.

A lot of the bad news out of Patch seems to have started around the same time.

------
rjv
I've never heard of Patch. It's unfortunate that I had to learn of them this
way, because the premise seems useful. I don't think I would participate now
based on these bad vibes.

------
czbond
To do it via a conference call? What a piss poor leader and dick move.

~~~
EdwardMSmith
I'm assuming this was a call with all the remote staff that edit the
individual sites and live in the communities that the sites cover.

I don't think they were going to fly them all into a central location to fire
them.

~~~
saalweachter
For a small company, I wonder how much that would add to the wind-down costs.
Fly everyone to Las Vegas for a company offsite/conference, announce the
firing at the 10am meeting, give everyone $X00 in extra termination pay up
front and tell them to hit the slots.

If you're already planning to spend $5-20k per employee for X weeks severance,
an extra $1-2k per employee for the offsite firing might only increase your
wind-down costs by 10%.

~~~
SamReidHughes
Wow, good one, I've never seen as evil an idea as this.

------
joeblau
OUCH! That hurt me and I don't even work there. That was as cold as a block of
ice, but I'm sure workers at Patch had to see this one coming after the last
fiasco.

------
orsenthil
How many people are working at Patch? Sounds like an internet startup with
less than 30?

~~~
smackfu
They had 1100 people in August 2013, at which point they laid off 500.

------
coldcode
I'm guessing they were not covered by the WARN Act.

------
CompleteMoron
Patch was kinda rocking at first for me - especially when I was over in
Broooklyn. It was showing up in my feeds or when i went searching for stories
in some states.

Then AOL got them and suddenly I saw no posts from The Patch on my feeds - for
like all of 2013.

What happened?

~~~
aaronem
Sounds like AOL happened. As far as I can tell, they've never been all that
comfortable with this new-fangled "inter-web" nonsense.

------
benched
I think I would be literally incapable of saying those words in that way under
any circumstances. I know that everybody is different. Things like this just
make me really, really curious what it would be like to be inside the mind of
someone capable of speaking like this, seriously.

