
A Renaissance painting reveals how breeding changed watermelons (2015) - lelf
https://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9050469/watermelon-breeding-paintings
======
paulgerhardt
This article was from 2015 and debunked at the time. Both "starring" and
"hollow heart" are known conditions in homegrown watermelons. This is what an
under-pollinated watermelon looks like if you grow it yourself in non-ideal
conditions:
[https://imgur.com/gallery/YPojgFh/](https://imgur.com/gallery/YPojgFh/) \-
watermelon flowers should be pollinated at least 8 times(!) per flower to grow
a proper watermelon [1].

While not an expert, a quick search suggests that "starring" happens when the
watermelon isn't exposed to enough pollen. "Hollow heart" may be due to excess
water or nitrogen (though probably also pollen[2]). Both combinations seem
possible and as a casual gardener I'm not even sure they're distinct.
Commercial watermelon operations control for this. Google "starring
watermelon" for dozens of examples.

As Reddit later pointed out other contemporaneous examples of watermelons look
fairly modern: [https://imgur.com/a/zN8Kv](https://imgur.com/a/zN8Kv)

edit: Apologies for not seeing Vox later issued a bad correction to the
original article at the end. Reddit was divided into three camps saying these
watermelon's were under-watered, under-pollinated, or underripe. The
"correction" only addressed the "underripe" claim. Vox states Stanchi's
watermelons are not underripe - while technically true - they don't address
that they are not under-pollinated or under-watered.

[1] [https://homeguides.sfgate.com/watermelons-need-
pollinated-75...](https://homeguides.sfgate.com/watermelons-need-
pollinated-75613.html)

[2] [https://www.mashed.com/158254/the-false-watermelon-fact-
you-...](https://www.mashed.com/158254/the-false-watermelon-fact-you-always-
thought-was-
true/#:~:text=Though%20hollow%20heart%20in%20watermelons,Johnson%2C%20Cooperative%20Extension%20fruit%20and)

[3] The more "webbing" a watermelon it has the more it was pollinated, the
sweeter it is. That and more watermelon tips here:
[https://imgur.com/gallery/SN8jl](https://imgur.com/gallery/SN8jl)

~~~
luma
That specific claim is covered and debunked in the article. Short version: the
seeds in the painting are black, which means the fruit is ripe. This won't
happen to "starred" melons.

~~~
hyperbovine
Isn’t it also possible that the painter simply took some artistic license and
decided to render the seeds in the nice glossy black that everyone is familiar
with? This does not seem less plausible than the more elaborate hypothesis
suggested in the article.

~~~
garmaine
Seriously, it’s a painting now a photograph....

------
setr
I'm left fairly confused -- the crux of the article is that the original
watermelon was bred out of existence into the watermelon we know and love
today -- but the article also has readers pointing out that the modern
watermelon existed in the same time period.[0]

Which either implies it wasn't manipulated out of existence, but rather that
two variants existed and one went extinct, or it implies that the process had
occurred long before the paintings occurred, and after the paintings one went
extinct.

That is, with the readers' additions, this really shouldn't be an article
about breeding.. but about extinct varieties of fruits?

[0] [http://imgur.com/a/zN8Kv](http://imgur.com/a/zN8Kv)

~~~
austincheney
A good comparison is the domestic cat. The domestic cat comes from the African
wildcat. The two cats are genetically similar but distinguishable with the
domestic cat containing a noticeably low degree of genetic diversity. The
African wildcat is endangered for no other reason than being replaced in the
wild by the genetically compatible domestic cat.

~~~
Wohlf
There's also other simple explanations. Maybe people preferred this
watermelon, it was easier to grow, etc.

------
ciguy
There is an entire culture of Heirloom vegetables where many gardeners share
seeds amongst themselves and attempt to preserve some of the agricultural
diversity we had before modern monocropping took over. Obviously most of the
varieties don't date back as far as this melon but many can be traced back to
specific villages in Europe.

Heirloom tomatoes seem to be particularly popular probably because they look
really interesting (Different colors, shapes and flavors) and are pretty easy
to grow.

------
wondringaloud
The article basically debunks itself with the correction at the end, but tries
to hang on by claiming "Look! It has seeds!"

However, I don't see one mention of "artistic license" as a plausible
explanation of why it may have seeds, or why it may be depicted as being more
ripe.

------
throwaway_USD
Here is an article depicting a couple other fruits and vegetables pre/post
domestication.

[https://www.sciencealert.com/fruits-vegetables-before-
domest...](https://www.sciencealert.com/fruits-vegetables-before-
domestication-photos-genetically-modified-food-natural)

My favorite was learning the carrots weren't originally orange but purple or
white. Corn may be shocking to people. In my opinion the banana has many
similarities to the watermelon in terms of the "holes" and filling out post
domestication.

~~~
helij
White carrots are still around but they are kind of 'less' carrots and are
used to feed the pigs.

~~~
krisoft
Interesting. Where I’m from white carrots are absolutely for human
consumption. So much so that I can’t even imagine a proper Sunday chicken soup
without some.

------
austincheney
To be more precise all sugar melons are indigenous to various locations of
Africa with the watermelon coming from South Africa. Conversely, the distantly
related squashes, gourds, and pumpkins are indigenous to the area between
southern Texas and northern Columbia.

~~~
samatman
Not entirely accurate, the calabash or bottle gourd is an Old World crop as
well.

Some archaeologists think it may have even been carried across the Bering
Strait! It was in any case endemic in the New World at the time of contact.

~~~
AlotOfReading
I would use "think" in the loosest possible sense, as we're pretty much
certain it wasn't. Calabash can't be grown across much of that journey, and
there's no archaeological or ethnographic evidence to support it.
Additionally, the historic varieties are most closely related to African
crops, not Asian varieties (with no evidence of founder effect). Furthermore,
the seeds remain viable for years even in salt water, so oceanic transport is
completely realistic.

Fun fact though, it's found in the earliest domestication deposits in the
Americas, alongside squash.

------
filoeleven
Pro tip: try dipping watermelon in lime juice, but ONLY attempt this if you
are okay with never going back to eating it unadorned again.

------
deevolution
I wonder what the nutrient composition was for watermelons before they were
transformed into giant sugar orbs.

~~~
dhosek
Despite being giant sugar orbs, watermelons are apparently surprisingly high
in micronutrients, moreso than cantaloupe or honeydew melons even. The small
seedless watermelons that have appeared in recent years are the best source of
these. (Source: _Eating on the Wild Side_ by Jo Robinson
[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316227943/donhosek](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316227943/donhosek))

~~~
TylerE
There really isn't that much sugar in watermelon as far as fruits go.

The lowest sugar fruits are the berries - raspberries and strawberries are
both ~4.5-5g sugar per 100g.

Watermelon is 6g/100g.

On the higher end, apples and oranges are both ~10g/100g, Bananas 12, and
Grapes 16.

------
jb775
Maybe that's how watermelons grew in that specific yearly harvest? Or maybe he
saw one like that in his lifetime and painted it like that since it's more
aesthetically pleasing with the swirls?

------
zoomablemind
Curious but confusing. The article begins with stating the breeding
drastically changed watermelons of ole-days. Then after showing a very much
similarly looking one from the present day and also a seeded w/melon we know
now found in a painting from the same period as the one showing the "original"
w/melon. Conclusion I make: nature's diversity is amazing, better eat these
now before they morph into some cube or rindless-seedless-fleshless-all-year-
round powder.

------
SilasX
>"It's fun to go to art museums and see the still-life pictures, and see what
our vegetables looked like 500 years ago," he told me. In many cases, it's our
only chance to peer into the past, since we can't preserve vegetables for
hundreds of years.

Um ... not even by saving the seeds?

~~~
vikramkr
If people did then yes that's obviously the best way to do that, but an awful
lot of these are lost to history now. 500 years in the future we've got seed
banks people can pull from

~~~
SilasX
Right but it’s phrased in the present tense.

------
stx
Speaking of changed watermelons check out these Japanese square watermelons. I
almost want to try doing this in my garden.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JNSpMhJLvg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JNSpMhJLvg)

------
tgv
Renaissance is 15th and 16th century, painting is said to be 17th.

And all those fruits: are they really ripe at the same time? Peaches, pears
and grapes? Grapes are normally picked at the end of summer, and pears are
early.

~~~
kleiba
Wikipedia weighs in: _In addition to the standard periodization, proponents of
a long Renaissance put its beginning in the 14th century and its end in the
17th century._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance)

------
dekhn
my favorite story about intentionally bred plants: modern maize has a
predecessor, whose identity was uncovered by some of the leaders in genetics
in the 1950s (McClintock and Beadle). When they visited Mexico, they saw
locals collecting grains from teosinte growing on the side of the road, near
massive fields of modern maize.

~~~
selimthegrim
Not only that, they found more recently maize that fixes nitrogen in the air
instead of in the rhizomes below the soil.

------
jungletime
Many things in the past were made to a higher standard then they are now. I'm
sure freshly picked watermelon grown organically for royalty, was pretty
awesome.

~~~
bserge
It's more like _that_ was the higher standard. Peasants didn't even get to
taste it (on that note, they could barely even get meat, because hunting was
forbidden on royalty's lands, which was... everything).

You can trust me when I say organically grown (i.e. as nature intended, no
breeding, no insecticides, no pesticides, etc) is not something to admire.

I have fully organic cherries (ruined from a week of rain), raspberries and
strawberries (decent, but really small) and potatoes (frankly horrifying to
the eye, but edible) in my garden.

Apples, pears, cherries, strawberries, raspberries, sweet melons, watermelons,
yeah they taste good but not _that_ great, and they look much worse.

I guess it's a tradeoff between taste and looks, if you don't like the
occasional worm in a smaller than average fruit, you better just go with the
"non-organic" stuff.

~~~
jungletime
I'm not sure if you have ever been to Italy or California. The climate has a
lot to do with the taste of Fruit. I've had some awesome tasting fruit from
farmers markets in both places. Generally the stuff I'm able to get in the
grocery store here in Canada is unripe, and very poor quality. Looks good,
tastes bland 90% of the time. Has to do with the varieties being planted
optimized for shipping, refrigeration, and so on.

