

The Microfactory: A machine shop in a box - bshanks
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/327919589/the-microfactory-a-machine-shop-in-a-box

======
BryantD
In the interests of transparency, please note that one of the four founders
didn't complete fulfillment on his last maker-oriented Kickstarter:
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1738994529/kikori-
open-...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1738994529/kikori-open-source-
cnc-gantry-router/posts/560028)

~~~
storborg
It's amazing to me that Kickstarter allows delinquent creators to start
another project.

~~~
BryantD
I don't know how they'd track it when it's not the same account.

I pledged to the Kikori Kickstarter (which, btw, means I've got some bias in
this although I wasn't up for any rewards) so I knew who the guy was, and I
happened to notice that he was involved in this one. Even a human reviewer
wouldn't have caught that. Well, you could do simple name matching but I don't
think that's good enough -- compare this to the no-fly list, for example.

So I'm OK with word of mouth being the governor here. It's also a good
indicator that you should research before you pledge. I do a quick web search
if I'm backing something from someone I don't know. It helps set my
expectations.

~~~
storborg
Kickstarter campaigns do have to be submitted for approval, so theoretically
there is a human reviewer. I'd assume step 1 would be "Google the names of the
project founders".

~~~
BryantD
Sure, but then you have the false positive problem that plagues the no-fly
list or any other string based name matching system. It'd work for Judah Sher
since that's a fairly uncommon name (his Kickstarter is in the top ten
results). It wouldn't work for plenty of other people.

------
Blahah
That thing looks amazing, but probably before its time, $5k is a lot to throw
down on a preorder for a machine. I would happily put down that if the thing
was already available though... perhaps they should explore more traditional
funding routes to get production started?

~~~
Turing_Machine
You can get a milling machine + lathe + a bunch of tooling for way less than
that, and have plenty left over to make it CNC if you so desire.

[http://littlemachineshop.com/](http://littlemachineshop.com/)

~~~
Turing_Machine
Also: [http://www.mini-lathe.com/](http://www.mini-lathe.com/)

------
bshanks
yes, the kickstarter is expired, but
[https://twitter.com/Mebotic](https://twitter.com/Mebotic) indicates that the
project is still alive.

~~~
mebotic
Hey guys, just saw this thread. Yes the project is very much still alive. we
are making a less expensive version of the machine which we hope to have up on
Kickstarter in the near future. In the interim we are having a ton of fun
posting projects we've been making with the machine which you can find on the
bottom of our homepage www.mebotics.com

THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT!!!

------
adamwong246
How much longer till a machine can produce an identical, working and complete
copy using only raw materials and a blueprint?

~~~
marcosdumay
After we discover a way to make microchips in factories that cost $1k instead
of $1G, and deal with the revolution in economics and computing that follows
it... Then we can think about machines that reproduce themselves.

~~~
mikeash
As chip technology advances, does any of it make it substantially easier and
cheaper to make old, slow chips? In other words, while massive factories are
clearly the way to go for current technology and they let you pump out cheap
chips in massive quantities for ridiculously low per-unit prices, what if you
wanted to, say, fab an 8086 today? If you jump a few decades back, can you
make those chips individually today through some reasonable process, or is the
whole business just inherently large-scale even after all this time?

~~~
sbierwagen
An automated chip factory intended for use in a self-replicating machine is
only useful if it can produce chips from unprocessed ore. You can make your
job a lot easier if you design it to just run on silicon boules-- but those
are almost as expensive per kilogram as finished packaged chips...

So you need a furnace for refining sand, a chemical factory to produce the
dopants, lithography equipment, clean rooms, ultraprecise steppers...

Really, the problem here is the hidden complexity. It's not like you can look
an obsolete chip foundry, and say, "Okay, so this facility is worth $100
million, and is about an acre of equipment, how do we miniaturize it?"

That single foundry is the tip of a $100 billion pyramid. You can't just
replicate the foundry, you have to replicate all the factories that built the
stuff that went into the foundry.

~~~
rmason
How this usually works is someone comes up with an entirely new way of
accomplishing the task. Someone young or from outside the industry who doesn't
know what they're trying to accomplish is impossible.

When I look at how fast the 3D printer industry is going you never know. If
you can currently print a house using concrete and in the near future print
out a kidney who is to say you won't be able to make an 8086?

[http://www.wimp.com/printerhouse/](http://www.wimp.com/printerhouse/)

[http://www.livescience.com/41480-3d-printed-kidneys-take-
sma...](http://www.livescience.com/41480-3d-printed-kidneys-take-small-
steps.html)

~~~
sbierwagen
Programmers typically don't have very good intuitions regarding the pace of
change in other industries.

Quoting myself ([http://c1qfxugcgy0.tumblr.com/post/31187427192/the-
enduring-...](http://c1qfxugcgy0.tumblr.com/post/31187427192/the-enduring-
tragedy-of-the-robotics-industry-is)):

    
    
      Not every technology follows the price curve of 
      computers— computing is the bizarre outlier. If you had 
      predicted in 1970 that computers would be tens of 
      millions of times cheaper per FLOP in the future, you 
      would be a visionary, but if you predicted that jet 
      airliners would cost $10, fit in your pocket, and fly at 
      Mach 100, then you would be an idiot.
    

_Some things are just hard._ Not everything gets 10X better per year for
decades and decades. Most industries hit hard physical limitations long ago,
and are improving either very slowly, or not at all.

3D printing is a particularly bad example of revolutionary change: it was
invented by industry insiders, for decades was performed by exorbitantly
expensive machines, and is mostly hyped based on the term "3D printing."
Actual FDM machines are much less exciting, and aren't terribly useful,
commercially.

