

Ask HN: How to convince a fellow programmer to join your startup - cnu

The question says it all. Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take the risks and has a good day job. How do founders convince people they know into joining their companies?
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prakash
As Charlie Munger says _“If you would persuade, appeal to interest not to
reason.”_

Address what the worst case scenario could be, in most startups that would be
going out of business. Highlight that it would be a better experience in the
same period working for a startup rather than said current company.

It could also be financial, maybe he/she has stock options & trigers that
would vest in a few months.

~~~
nickb
That's an old Ben Franklin quote.

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prakash
Thanks, didn't know it was Ben.

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wheels
Honestly I don't try to persuade people. I want them to know what they're
getting into and be willing to take that risk with us. I feel like if you lure
someone away from a steady job with pie-in-the-sky logic, you're setting
yourself up to lose a friend. When I got my co-founder in on things, we talked
very seriously about the realistic chance of success, how much stress it would
be, and well, how much we'd learn along the way and that we might even have a
little fun. Expectation management seems to be important.

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DenisM
Here's an argument from an older, successful corporate guy, which I found very
compelling:

Throughout my life I have taken many opportunities, and not all of them went
well. But the only ones I truly regret are the ones which I didn't take.

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cperciva
_Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take the
risks_

I don't think that "someone who isn't brave enough to take the risks" is
really someone you should want joining your startup, personally.

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comatose_kid
Not necessarily, especially if the talent is great. Woz didn't want to leave
HP at one point.

~~~
bootload
_"... Woz didn't want to leave HP at one point. ..."_

Woz also probably wanted to build stuff for himself that HP refused to take
up. So creating Apple was a logical step. I think the real convincing was via
the _"Reality Distortion Field"_ ~
[http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...](http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Reality_Distortion_Field.txt&topic=Reality%20Distortion&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium)

~~~
cnu
Yeah. That is what I wanted to know. What do people who don't have the Reality
Distortion Field do to persuade people?

The programmers I know are pretty good but they also have PHB (pointy haired
bosses) and also hate some things of working in a big corporate.

~~~
swombat
_What do people who don't have the Reality Distortion Field do to persuade
people?_

Learn to develop one. It doesn't need to be as good as Steve Job's, but being
able to persuade people that you're onto something is a pretty essential skill
as a start-up founder. In fact, I wouldn't start up unless you are able to
convince a few people that your proposed business is really good and worth
backing. Consider it a first hurdle.

If you can't convince people to join up with you, either your pitching skills
are not good enough (so improve them) or your idea sucks (so iterate through
that).

And, as others have said, if that person is not really interested in the
start-up life, don't push them... find someone else (unless that person is a
genius).

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bootload
_"... Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take
the risks and has a good day job ..."_

Are you a born salesman? Do you have great persuasion skills and killer smile
that can motivate others to do what you want? Are you capable of identifying
the targets motivation and swaying them over? If you did you wouldn't be
asking this question.

Find another.

A programmer is not by default an ideal Startup Founder. Finding someone who
is technical and who compliments your skillset is important. Someone who can
build stuff. But if someone has to be convinced and not brave enough to leave
what they are doing. When things get tough guess who will leave? Are they
motivated enough to stick out the marathon? I've often thought to myself,
_"what is the best measure of a potential co-founder?"_. Is it a combination
of raw ability, skill & determination? Could the "X" factor be a fierce desire
to do something for themselves? Build something (product) and profiting from
it?

If the fire is not there, a programmer might make a good employee. But Co-
founder?

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iuguy
You have to turn on the charm, find out what the guys fears or objections are
and remove/counter them. Emphasise the positives.

DONT offer equity to someone who isn't brave enough to take the risks. I've
told prospective hires (and current hires) that providing equity at this stage
would cause them more problems than it solves, but then again I'm not looking
to cash in my chips in the next 6 months.

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noodle
the fact of the matter is that there is inherent risk in working a startup. or
starting one. it takes a certain type of person to be willing to do this. not
everyone has the ability to do it. for example, a guy supporting a family with
house and car payments is more likely to want a steady corporate job.

to get people, you need to offer a competitive salary. everyone has to pay the
bills. after that, its the perks. if working at a company is fun, who wouldn't
want to work there?

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randomwalker
DON'T!

To be sucessful at a startup, the cofounders really have to believe in it. If
you explain your project to someone, and they don't buy it, and you sell hard
and convince them, sooner or later they are going to have second thoughts. And
that's going to doom you.

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liangzan
Sometimes its what you're working on that matters. If its something worthwhile
like kiva.com or world vision, I would go for it even if I got to take a pay
cut. You got to persuade using the intangibles.

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mattjung
I think it is worth the effort to convince him if you are convinced that he
will bring the startup forward. Convincing someone is not something to be done
in 5 minutes. Ask him the question: what would be the worst case scenario you
could face taking the risk? Show him what he might win - I am not talking
about money, but experience, fun, responsibility, reputation, stories for his
grand-children. Give him some articles of Paul Graham to read, e.g. "Why not
to start a startup".

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azharcs
If you really want him badly, I would say do whatever you can to convince him.
Show the advantages of working on this start up and disadvantages of his day
job. Sooner or later, he will have a bad day at work and he will surely think
about quitting the day job. That is one when you will become an alternative.

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vaksel
Is gaining this person vital to completing the project? If not do it on your
own, until you are far enough to be able to invite the person at the later
stage.

If yes, you are going to need to pony up the cash, have enough to be able to
provide for both of you to survive on ramen noodles for 6 months.

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pjr
Try to get him to go part-time, even just a few hours a week, so that he can
see why your start-up is so great.

~~~
cnu
Infact this is one thing which really does work well with most people. Since
good programmers are already working part time on projects which interests
them, it becomes really easy to allow them to moonlight and join as full time
a few months later.

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anamax
Is another programmer your startup's top need or your top need?

