
Plumber sues Ford dealer after truck with logo was used by extremists in Syria - tlrobinson
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/14/plumber-sues-ford-dealer-after-truck-with-company-logo-was-used-by-jihadists-in-syria/
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danielvf
Note that he is not suing Ford the manufacturer, but a local dealership, and
he is not suing them for the truck ending up with Jihadists, but because the
dealership said they would remove the decals before selling the vehicle.

Both being much more reasonable than the what the headline implies.

~~~
tlrobinson
I'm not sure which headline you're reading, but the one here references both
"Ford dealer" and "truck with logo" (I had to shorten from "truck with company
logo" to fit Hacker News' 80 character limit)

~~~
munificent
It's easy to interpret the "after" in your headline as "because". But the real
"because" is because the dealer didn't remove the decal, not because it ended
up in Syria.

~~~
EGreg
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc)

edit: why the downvote?

~~~
TeMPOraL
I guess it's because this fallacy is not relevant to the topic. The
association of "after" with "because" in cases like these is not about
fallacious reasoning, it's because _particular_ two things were chosen and put
together to form a headline, and it doesn't make sense to create a headline
like this if you only want to connect the two things with a temporal
relationship (one came after another).

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DiabloD3
Honestly, I hope he wins.

The Ford dealership that he sold his vehicle to cannot reasonably claim
innocence, and has put this man's, and his family's, life in danger.

Now, whether if the Ford dealership is legally liable, I don't know. However,
they're basically screwed: they'll forever be remembered as the dealership
that sold a vehicle to terrorists (no matter if that is technically true or
not; they immediately unloaded it at a car auction like all dealerships do if
they don't have a local buyer already lined up).

I'd like to see an investigation, however, why a perfectly working truck was
shipped overseas and left the American market. I know working computers are
"recycled" (ie, dumped in a hole in the ground somewhere in China, India, or
Africa), but I wasn't aware we did the same to vehicles.

~~~
cmyr
There is a massive export market in Africa and the middle east for vehicles
from North America, Europe, Japan, Australia, certainly other places as well.
Most of the importing nations have far less restrictive (or any) restrictions
on things like emissions and road-worthiness, and often have highly
competitive local secondary markets. New vehicles are often much more
expensive then they would be in western markets as well.

Sell any low-cost used 4x4 vehicle in North America and you are likely to at
least be approached by somebody intending to ship it to West Africa. East
Africa is serviced by huge japanese auction sites such as beforward
([http://www.beforward.jp](http://www.beforward.jp)).

Ford and Toyota trucks are highly valued because they're the easiest to find
spare parts for. High demand and low supply pretty quickly justifies the
expense of shipping over a container and (maybe) paying import duties.

What here needs to be investigated?

~~~
michaelt

      What here needs to be investigated?
    

Presumably we have a trade embargo with ISIS?

I'm not an expert on military strategy, but if our aim is to bomb all their
equipment, we should probably investigate the possibility of not selling them
replacement equipment?

~~~
dshibarshin
Easier said than done. Even if the cars originate from within the United
States, they pass through so many brokers and middle men that it will be quite
a challenge to track their final destination. I would even argue that ISIS
doesn't source their cars from the US. Instead they look to the United Arab
Emirates, who remain the number one importer of used US car (in containers) by
quite a margin. [1]

[1]
[http://www.wcshipping.com/hubfs/D_OfferPDFs/PDF/2015_Q3_Fina...](http://www.wcshipping.com/hubfs/D_OfferPDFs/PDF/2015_Q3_Final.pdf)

------
ourmandave
I was going to ask who would believe a plumber _from Texas_ would blatantly
give/sell/donate his truck to ISIS. But a linked article says he has received
1000's of phone calls (some threatening).

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/12/1...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/12/19/plumber-gets-threats-after-old-truck-complete-with-logo-
shows-up-with-syria-jihadists/)

~~~
manachar
People are funny about what they believe. For many, seeing it on TV makes it
true.

Plumber has truck. Plumber's truck ends up on TV being used by ISIS. Ergo,
Plumber must be supporter of ISIS.

This is further harmed by it being surprising to people that trucks could be
profitably shipped all the way to the Middle East.

~~~
sophacles
* This is further harmed by it being surprising to people that trucks could be profitably shipped all the way to the Middle East. *

This really frustrates me - because its 7100 km from TX to Syria, while Japan
is 10000 km away. If you include things like convenience of shipping, it's
probably easier to move things between Syria and TX than Japan and TX (because
there is a direct ocean route that doesn't involve major canals or going
around pesky continents).

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ourmandave
This got me wondering about other companies that own branded vehicles. I found
this on the UPS wikipedia page.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Parcel_Service#Vehicles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Parcel_Service#Vehicles)

 _When UPS ground vehicles reach the end of their useful service life and are
no longer roadworthy (typically 20–25 years or more, but generally when the
body 's structural integrity is compromised), they are almost always stripped
of reusable parts, repainted in household paint to cover up the trademark, and
then sent to the scrapyard to be crushed and broken up. The only exception to
this policy is when a package car is repainted white for internal use, usually
at a large hub. Prior to scrapping, UPS trucks and trailers are assigned an
ADA (Automotive Destruction Authorization) number and must be crushed under
supervision of UPS Automotive personnel, which records the vehicle's
destruction, as UPS does not re-sell any of its ground vehicles._

~~~
dingaling
25 years is astounding, that's impressive utilization of assets.

In the UK, Royal Mail disposes of its delivery vehicles every three years when
they become due for annual roadworthiness testing.

And quite often the replacement vehicle is a different type entirely ( lowest-
bid contracts ) so they have no commonality of maintenance.

Seems like an expensive way to operate a fleet but they show no sign of
changing.

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rurounijones
An interesting case where huge "mental and business damages" could easily be
justifiable for what amounts to, in essence, minor cockup that had
unfortunately wide ranging impact

~~~
aikah
I find the "truck sold in Texas, reappears in Syria in the hands of
extremists" thing much more interesting to say the least. People in the west
always wonder where these nuts get their gear... well, at the market like
everyone else...

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nzp
It's interesting how almost everyone, and certainly those who harassed our
good plumber, sees the words "extremists in Syria", completely ignores what
group it actually is (the name is there, it's not ISIS), and just assumes it's
ISIS. Even a lot of people here just go with "it's ISIS". If only the Syrian
War was that simple. This is actually a group[0] hostile to ISIS, although
affiliated with Al-Qaeda.

One other interesting thing, from the article, that seems ignored – this car
was exported to Turkey.

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaish_al-Muhajireen_wal-
Ansar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaish_al-Muhajireen_wal-Ansar)

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FussyZeus
The biggest problem of all is that anyone, literally thousands of people
according to the source, would assume that an American company would provide
branded vehicles to a terrorist group.

At least the people in Idiocracy KNEW they would stupid and acted accordingly,
puts them head and shoulders above a huge part of our population.

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scotty79
Shouldn't he rather go after people who harassed him? That's where neutral
information morphs into harmful action.

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tw04
This is either the second time this has happened, or this story is a rehash of
something that happened a long time ago.

~~~
qbrass
Pretty sure it's a later development of the same story. The first time was
just the guy trying to clear his reputation.

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leroy_masochist
Man, I feel really bad for the truck. Probably was looking forward to a new
life being driven by some 19-year-old kid who scrounged up to save it and
treat it with love....nope, got turned into the terrorist rapemobile instead.

~~~
jessaustin
ISTM a sort of "Ridin' with Private Malone" country song could be written
about this...

