

Bethesda suing Mojang AB for "Scrolls" - masklinn
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8519901309/bethesda-are-suing-us-heres-the-full-story

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saddino
Well, hopefully this HN thread won't be filled the comments like "you can't
trademark dictionary words" (you can) and "do I infringe if I use the words
scrolls in this posting?" (no). But just in case, in an effort to get some
facts in:

1) The aim of a trademark is to protect the consumer.

2) The infringement standard is "likelihood of confusion" i.e. might consumers
perceive Scrolls to be related to The Elder Scrolls? (IMHO I think that's a
valid question)

3) Trademark owners MUST -- in order to preserve their mark -- defend against
cases of infringement. In other words, Bethesda and their lawyers aren't just
"being jerks." They have no choice but to act if they think there might be
consumer confusion that dilutes their mark. (IMHO there is, and thus they are
doing what they have to do).

~~~
darklajid
I'm clueless - and teasing. But..

If 'The Elder Scrolls' leads to problems if someone uses 'Scrolls', what about
the other parts? 'Elder'? 'The'? If the latter is too ridiculous, what is the
difference between them?

And - _why_ can you go for single words? I mean - I understand the reasoning
if they are stopping notch from creating 'The Elder's Scrolls' or something.
But - right now, it looks like a farce to me..

The 'will consumers be confused' part is imho completely weird and not
applicable unless the artwork is shared. You don't buy a game as a string of
text, you look at reviews, a cover (if you buy physical..) and game design. I
don't conflate my SNES 'Super Mario Brothers' with 'Super Metroid' or
'Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30' on a PC, just because they share a word..

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jameskilton
So are Bethesda's lawyers taking a page from Monster Cable's play book, even
up to the point of attacking a small indy developer who's games would never be
mistaken for any of Bethesda's games?

Hopefully this is just lawyers being lawyers, and the Internet backlash gets
someone's attention at Bethesda quickly.

~~~
masklinn
> So are Bethesda's lawyers taking a page from Monster Cable's play book

So far, it reads like Langdell's book more than Monster's.

~~~
jameskilton
I had not known about Tim Langdell, yes this is definitely closer to his
shenanigans than Monster's.

For the others who don't know Tim: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_Games>

~~~
masklinn
> I had not known about Tim Langdell

You've missed out. I recommend browsing the archives of ChaosEdge[0] to get
the backstory. It's really quite amazing. In gaming communities, Langdell is
the One True Trademark Troll.

[0] <http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/>

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doctoboggan
Notch is playing the PR game here very well by publicly outing the case. Even
if Bethesda has a valid claim (which is debatable) Notch has public opinion on
his side. Someone at Bethesda should pull the plug on this suit before the
Internet turns on them.

------
janus
In other news, Blizzard sued Mojang for using the word 'craft' in 'Minecraft'

This is ridiculous.

I'm going to trademark the letter 'E' and sue every company whose's software
product includes it in its name.

~~~
mhd
Next, Game Designer's Workshop suing Blizzard for using the word "war".

(Never mind that I bet that GDW _has_ to have some agreement / settlement with
Blizzard, known or unknown…)

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Shenglong
_I have never ever considered that series of (very good) role playing games to
be about scrolls in any way, nor was that ever the focal point of neither
their marketing nor the public image._

I've played since Daggerfall, and I don't really even remember if scrolls were
part of the games at all. Anyone remember?

~~~
Thasc
The Elder Scrolls are ancient texts of prophecy in the TES universe. They
foretell various major events in the game history (many of which are the
player's doing, of course).

So they are important in an overarching plot sense. But that doesn't mean
Bethesda has a case against anything with 'Scrolls' in the title.

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freechoice1
Bethesda this is not looking good at all. There's already enough silly fights
over patents. Shall we now argue who owns what word? If you trademark my first
name will you then sue me so that I have to change my name? This is going too
far. Someone must stop this madness.

~~~
ericd
Trademark applies within a category - they have the right to The Elder Scrolls
as it relates to video games. If they made a video game that was called your
first name, and they trademarked that, you couldn't make another video game
called your first name, but they have no rights over the word in the context
of person names, etc.

It's not as insane as it might seem at first glance.

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mey
Would it be possible to trademark the world scrolls alone?

~~~
6ren
Yes.

But it would have to be restricted to a specific type of product - i.e. you
aren't really trademarking the "word", but particular uses of it, for
particular purposes.

e.g. "coke" is trademarked.

~~~
ugh
Would they have to use it? Even if they had the trademark, they currently
don’t seem to use only “Scrolls” anywhere. It’s always “The Elder Scrolls”.
I’m guessing (but don’t know) that a trademark has to be used to be upheld.

(This is obviously separate from the issue of whether a trademark for games
called “The Elder Scrolls” also covers games called “Scrolls”.)

~~~
ristretto
I think the requirement is that it is not confused with an existing product,
but confusion is open to interpretation.

~~~
ugh
Well, that’s obviously separate. The issue at hand is whether you can
trademark a single word in your trademark and, without using it anywhere on
its own, keep it as a trademark (ignoring, for the moment, whether or not
there can be confusion).

It’s a bit off-topic, really, since there only seems to be a trademark for
“The Elder Scrolls”, not “Scrolls”. This is all about the possibility of
confusion.

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ristretto
Isn't that exactly the reason why there is a mandatory period for objections
to trademark applications? In this case, both are in the same business sector
and the names sound indeed confus-able to me. Bethesda is probably right.

~~~
redthrowaway
So Rockstar should have sued the makers of Thief because it's awfully close to
"Theft" in GTA? If someone came out with a game called "Auto" then they should
be sued, too?

This is just silly. Nobody's going to confuse a game put out by Mojang for
anything in the TES series. I'm all for protecting trademarks when they're
legitimately threatened (see Notch's example of the iOS Minecraft clone), but
this is stupid.

~~~
ristretto
I think it's still open to interpretation. The world theft is much more common
than "Scrolls" and it's all about the possibility of confusion.

