
Coronavirus: It is time for a radical acceptance of reality - WheelsAtLarge
https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-brutal-logic-of-coronavirus-a-e7be4add-4695-4d48-b1d6-0c593a668e92
======
troughway
Pasted here - [https://pastebin.com/5Ben9q4w](https://pastebin.com/5Ben9q4w)

------
shalmanese
> The only way to defeat this pandemic is to approach it with the seriousness
> it deserves. It is time for a radical acceptance of reality.

This is all so surreal to me. Shouldn't we have taken this with the
seriousness it deserves when China was locking down 700 million people?

Like, even if you didn't believe what China was doing was correct, you should
at least have been trying to formulate your best arguments over why China's
reaction was wrong and looking for confirmatory and dis-confirmatory evidence
over your arguments.

Instead, we spent six weeks in a state of such basic blissful ignorance of
China (& other early countries/cruise ships) that we're scrambling now because
we don't even have the data to make the right decisions.

For example, there was a case in Hong Kong where one person got it through the
sewerage pipe of an infected person 10 floors above because they improperly
modified their vent pipes: [https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-
environment/artic...](https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-
environment/article/3050068/coronavirus-your-toilet-how-hong-kong-policy) .
(This is a famous example of how SARS spread through Amoy Gardens in HK so HK
people are hyper paranoid about this infection route).

This piece of news didn't even make a ripple in the West (I know because I
have friends who work at SCMP and I asked them to look at the analytics, the
only western media that picked up their story was... drudgereport.com)

Friends I know in HK are like, "Yeah, the canto news covered this story quite
widely so we're all pretty aware" but you can't find any English awareness of
this. Even the C D FUCKING C is not aware of this, their page on fecal borne
transmissions
([https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/water.html](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/water.html))
STILL says:

"CDC is reviewing all data on COVID-19 transmission as information becomes
available. At this time, the risk of transmission of the virus that causes
COVID-19 through sewerage systems is thought to be low. Although transmission
of COVID-19 through sewage may be possible, ___there is no evidence to date
that this has occurred_ __. This guidance will be updated as necessary as new
evidence is assessed.

SARS, a similar coronavirus, has been detected in untreated sewage for up to 2
to 14 days. In the 2003 SARS outbreak, there was documented transmission
associated with sewage aerosols."

The case in Hong Kong happened ONE MONTH ago and the CDC didn't even pick this
up!!! WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD?

~~~
nraynaud
you can't lockdown too quickly, because you need a plan for removing the
lockdown, otherwise you have to stay on lockdown forever.

In this epidemic the lockdown is meant to avoid overwhelming the medical
system while we get herd immunity (by contamination and eventually vaccines)
in the general population for when we remove it.

~~~
shalmanese
You don't have to lockdown but you should be gathering evidence and preparing
contingency plans for different scenarios. The saddest shit ever is I assumed
this was all going on behind the scenes and serious people in serious suits
were sitting in serious meetings looking at all the China data and drawing up
plans that would all get revealed to the public at the right time.

The last few weeks have been a sad disconfirmation that this is not the case.
If even world leaders are getting this, it's strong evidence that nobody in
their government has any fucking clue what they're doing (or at least the
people with the fucking clue were not empowered to act).

Trump holds a press conference announcing this is a national emergency and
even during the press conference, people were standing less than 1m apart,
people were constantly touching their face, each speaker adjusted the
microphone at the exact same spot and touched the podium at the exact same
spot without sterilizing in between, nobody was wearing a mask and everyone
was shaking hands except ONE person who did the elbow bump. Sure, some of this
can be attributed to optics but they should also be demonstrating best
practices if they want others to be taking those best practices seriously.

------
LargoLasskhyfv
For me it was obvious what will happen since i came across this article
[http://chinamediaproject.org/2020/01/27/dramatic-
actions/](http://chinamediaproject.org/2020/01/27/dramatic-actions/) a few
days later. Not exactly how intense and when exactly, but that it WILL spread
globally and potentially cause all sorts of disruptions. Now i'm sitting here,
trying not to be smug, sipping my greek mountain tea, reading that Spiegelshit
and thinking to myself: Oh, really? Just now you are saying that? Good job!

(Not saying anything about baseball bats and how they should be applied, no no
no, wouldn't ever do that)

------
DoreenMichele
So, you click on this and you get an all German landing page, which I had
trouble with at first. You need to click the orange button that says
"akzeptieren" (I probably mispelled that, though) to continue to the article
with ads and no subscription.

The actual article is in English.

------
avalys
If anyone runs into what seems to be a paywall written in German, click
“Acceptiert” (spelling?) and you will get the English article. At least, this
was my experience.

~~~
AlexandrB
I think having an ad-blocker on breaks this and send you back to the paywall
with a new warning.

------
DoreenMichele
Here's the meat of what I have to say (extracted from a very long, upset
rant):

Stop blowing your goddamn noses at the table in a crowded restaurant, thereby
sharing your disease with a bunch of people who had no warning and no way to
get way from you.

Stop licking your fingers to open plastic bags.

Stop wiping your face or nose and then touching other people, ew.

If you are in charge of anything, train your cashiers to absolutely never,
ever, ever, ever upon pain of death (okay, firing offense) lick their fingers
or wipe their face before handling bags, bagging items or giving change to
their victims aka your customers. I have stopped going to some stores over
this shit.

Use self checkout. If you run a store, install a good self checkout that
doesn't make your customers crazy.

Stop touching people. Keep your hands to yourself.

Stop touching things unnecessarily.

Stop coughing at people. Go to the bathroom to cough, blow your nose, etc. To
the best of your ability, try to not sneeze at people if at all humanly
possible.

Wash your hands. Especially if you use a public toilet, good god.

Clean your home.

Clean your car.

Get rid of your giant pile of junk cluttering up your closets and going unused
and rotting in place.

Walk more so the air isn't so polluted. The world will generally be healthier.

Honestly, this isn't that hard. You already know most of it.

You just refuse to do it and when I tell you "Please don't do that" you act
like I'm the one being a bitch instead of correcting your gross, disgusting,
bad behavior that spreads disease like you worship Nergil.

My qualifications if you absolutely need qualifications to listen to the same
shit you have been told five hundred million times by all the health experts
on the planet and just chose to ignore:

[https://doreenmichele.blogspot.com/2020/02/perspective-
and-p...](https://doreenmichele.blogspot.com/2020/02/perspective-and-
priorities.html)

[https://atypicalcysticfibrosis.blogspot.com/p/atypical-cf-
de...](https://atypicalcysticfibrosis.blogspot.com/p/atypical-cf-defined.html)

I have fantasies I'm going to start a website called _Stop Touching Your Face_
, but the reality is it seems likely that project will be stillborn. Thus,
this attempt to say or do _something_ , knowing it will fall on deaf ears, as
usual.

~~~
copperx
Many of your suggestions are ineffective and counterproductive. I hope people
listen to better sources of information.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm curious which ones you think are ineffective and counterproductive. My
understanding is that it's in line with what the WHO recommends:

[https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2...](https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public)

Wash your hands frequently

Regularly and thoroughly clean your hands with an alcohol-based hand rub or
wash them with soap and water.

Why? Washing your hands with soap and water or using alcohol-based hand rub
kills viruses that may be on your hands.

Maintain social distancing

Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is
coughing or sneezing.

Why? When someone coughs or sneezes they spray small liquid droplets from
their nose or mouth which may contain virus. If you are too close, you can
breathe in the droplets, including the COVID-19 virus if the person coughing
has the disease.

Avoid touching eyes, nose and mouth

Why? Hands touch many surfaces and can pick up viruses. Once contaminated,
hands can transfer the virus to your eyes, nose or mouth. From there, the
virus can enter your body and can make you sick.

Practice respiratory hygiene

Make sure you, and the people around you, follow good respiratory hygiene.
This means covering your mouth and nose with your bent elbow or tissue when
you cough or sneeze. Then dispose of the used tissue immediately.

Why? Droplets spread virus. By following good respiratory hygiene you protect
the people around you from viruses such as cold, flu and COVID-19.

If you have fever, cough and difficulty breathing, seek medical care early

Stay home if you feel unwell. If you have a fever, cough and difficulty
breathing, seek medical attention and call in advance. Follow the directions
of your local health authority.

Why? National and local authorities will have the most up to date information
on the situation in your area. Calling in advance will allow your health care
provider to quickly direct you to the right health facility. This will also
protect you and help prevent spread of viruses and other infections.

Stay informed and follow advice given by your healthcare provider

Stay informed on the latest developments about COVID-19. Follow advice given
by your healthcare provider, your national and local public health authority
or your employer on how to protect yourself and others from COVID-19.

Why? National and local authorities will have the most up to date information
on whether COVID-19 is spreading in your area. They are best placed to advise
on what people in your area should be doing to protect themselves.

~~~
1996
> I'm curious which ones you think are ineffective and counterproductive.

These ones:

>> Clean your home.

>> Clean your car.

>> Get rid of your giant pile of junk cluttering up your closets and going
unused and rotting in place.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Please kindly explain to me how on earth a dirty car and a dirty home is
better. I'm having a lot of trouble taking this reply seriously, but I'm
trying to follow HN guidelines.

~~~
1996
> I'm having a lot of trouble taking this reply seriously, but I'm trying to
> follow HN guidelines.

I do not understand your trouble. This is a serious reply.

You asked which suggestions were ineffective and counterproductive. Your list
was interesting but derailed in the end, so I listed the most obvious
candidates. This is to help you in case you want to edit your post or make
suggestions to friends and family.

Here is an alternative suggestion in case of a "large pile of junk": a strong
UV lamp (of the kind that is used with reptiles) should be sufficient to alter
the viruses present on the surface, removing any need to touch it.

However, we have limited information about how UV could be helpful at the
moment, so it may be better to just spray alcohol on the pile and not touch
it.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Thank you for clarifying. I'm stepping away from this discussion. I've already
said that, but wanted to acknowledge your good intent.

~~~
1996
> I've already said that, but wanted to acknowledge your good intent.

Much appreciated, thank you.

