
Ask HN: How to not base self worth on your own work? - keithy
I&#x27;m a CS junior who is doing a lot of web development as of late.<p>I just realized that all my life I&#x27;ve been basing my self worth on how awesome my programming projects are. That means if my project sucks then I go into a slump, and if my project turned out to be great then I am elated. I also judge people by how good their projects are or where they work and it leads to me not having a good social life. It&#x27;s not the healthiest mindset I know.<p>Basically I have pretty bad self esteem and I feel like I compensate for it by trying to do more and more projects.<p>Has anyone gone through something like this and have any advice on how to deal with it?
======
JacobJans
The answer to this question is relatively straightforward, and has been well
developed by the psychology community.

Focus on process, not outcome.

Don't focus your mental energy on the awesomeness of your projects. (Even if
they are awesome.) Focus your mental energy on the production of them -- the
process.

Ultimately it is the process -- the way you are doing things -- that your life
is made of. What you do is who you are. Your projects exist outside yourself.
They're quite literally not you.

This is often discussed as "fixed mindset" vs "growth mindset."

See: [([https://sivers.org/mindset)](https://sivers.org/mindset\))]

~~~
psycr
Several of the studies supporting growth mindset have methodological flaws.
For example:

[http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/22/growth-
mindset-3-a-pox-...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/22/growth-
mindset-3-a-pox-on-growth-your-houses/)

------
tpatke
One of my great epiphanies as an American expat is that Americans have a
tendency to be extreme. They often have one thing that they use to define
themselves. They are driven to be the best at their 'one thing'.

\- People who go to church on Sunday feel the need to tell you about it on
Monday.

\- The guy at work who runs marathons, is running all the time. He never comes
to lunch because he is doing a practice run.

\- People who are fat. ...well, I am sorry, but if it was genetic then there
would be 500lb people in Europe too.

\- People who work, work and work and work. A lot of Americans fall under this
category.

I think taking pride in your work is a good thing. Knowing when you could do
better is a good thing. Building your sense of self around any one aspect of
your personality is a bad thing.

Aim to be more well-rounded. Try to find lots of things you like doing.
Moderate your activities. Live a less extreme life.

(I have obviously made some assumptions here. This post probably applies more
to me than anyone else. :)

~~~
enraged_camel
>>Aim to be more well-rounded.

Not sure if I agree. Being "well-rounded" will result in being mediocre at
everything, i.e. jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none. If you want to excel
at something, you need to specialize and focus on that thing, usually to the
exclusion of a lot of other things. Einstein wasn't "well-rounded" but he no
doubt lived a fulfilling life and had a lot of impact on the world. Not
everyone can be Einstein, or even wants to be Einstein, but I think being very
good at a few things would make them feel more satisfied with their lives than
chasing after many different interests and goals. That's just my opinion
though.

I also disagree with your characterization of Americans. If anything, people
in this country are very good at noticing what they are _not_ good at, and
live their lives trying to plug those perceived holes, rather than focusing on
developing themselves in what they are good at. This is mostly because the
consumer culture emphasizes people's imperfections in order to sell them
products and services. You walk down the magazine isle of a bookstore and are
bombarded with messages: you're out of shape, you need to be better at sex,
you need to learn how to talk to people better, you totally need to check out
the latest and hottest JavaScript framework bro! That's where the obsession
with well-roundedness comes from.

Now, here's the caveat: people who combine multiple disciplines tend to be
very successful. There was a story discussed on HN recently about this where
Elon Musk's ex-wife pointed that out. I agree with that. But even then, we're
talking about two or three things at most. Steve Jobs is a good example: he
understood technology _and_ design, but he definitely could not be described
as "well-rounded."

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "Being "well-rounded" will result in being mediocre at everything"

Even if that's true you're making the assumption that being excellent at
something will make the poster happy and improve his self-esteem. Maybe being
average at lots of different things will make him happy.

------
Red_Tarsius
I think your source of self-worth should not be _what_ you do. The projects
that make you proud today will be embarrassing to your future self. Many
illustrators I know hate even _looking_ at their 6 months old drawings.
Learning is 99% failing, so focusing only on your career successes is not a
sustainable strategy toward well-being.

imho self-worth must come from _why_ you do something. Search for the core
values that define your actions. Persistence, empathy, discipline... whatever
you define as the leading factors of your life. Then _stick_ with them. As
long as you are true to yourself, that is, you stick to your _why_ , you'll
find self-worth.

this is a really interesting way of looking at other people. Try to understand
their core values and compare them with yours.

Accept that your values may change over the years. Coherence is a self-
defeating value.

~~~
Varkiil
I love reading my 6 months old code and feel like a complete stranger wrote
it.

~~~
johnchristopher
Try doing the same with dreams. I find it is slightly disturbing if not
downright scary how I can so easily forget such detailed accounts of my oniric
life.

It makes me feel like a complete stranger too.

------
Raphmedia
Work is work. You are a human being, not a machine.

That code you output? It's meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Cherish
what makes you human, not what makes you a good worker.

Do things that you love outside of work. They will be just as meaningless in
the grand scheme of things, but they will matter to you. Base your self estime
on those.

Work is there for one reason and one reason only. To get you money to do the
things you like and to give you the means to cherish the people you love.

Bake a cake, share it with someone. It's just as meaningless as outputting
code, but you made two people happy. The code you make at work? The only thing
it's making happy is the wallet of someone.

If you love to code above all else, do code. But try to only base your self
estime on personal projects. Work is work, and your workplace shouldn't be
tied to your self worth.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>That code you output? It's meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Cherish
what makes you human, not what makes you a good worker. //

Isn't that just soul crushingly depressive. Surely everything you do is part
of your character, how you work, what you work on, that's all part of who you
are. You are not your work but I feel you've gone too far.

>Work is there for one reason and one reason only. To get you money to do the
things you like and to give you the means to cherish the people you love. //

I disagree. Yes, you need to earn your keep, no that doesn't mean that work
should be solely about the money (unless you're unfortunate enough to be
unable to change your circumstances, eg through poverty).

~~~
Raphmedia
Yes, it is soul crushingly depressive. That's why you should make sure that
work doesn't affect your personal human character.

If you work on an awesome project at work, do cherish it. Let it flow all over
your ego. You did an awesome job? Be proud of it. But remember that what you
are actually loving from that awesome project isn't the project itself, or the
client, or your boss, or the money, or your time spent working.

From my point of view, an awesome project can be defined as a project that
made you grow, that made you learn. This is what you love, and this is what
you seek without even being aware of it.

Growing and learning is the basis of our human existence.

Sadly, most work you do will be repetitive. Boring. Harsh. Some time, it will
even go badly. Learn what you can from those project, grow as much as you can,
then move on. A bad project shouldn't even touch your sense of self worth.

The only moment you should feel less from your work is when you know that you
didn't do your best. All else is simply work. Work may go bad, but if you did
you best, worked your hardest, don't put it against yourself.

Your value as an individual human being is miles away from how your last
project went. To me, they are barely related.

------
MattGrommes
First, realize that "all your life" is not really that long if you're 20 years
old. You've got a long ways to go and you will absolutely change over time,
usually without even noticing it. You're in college right now, don't sweat it
like this is going to be your whole life.

Second, I would suggest getting some different kinds of hobbies. Do a bunch of
different kinds of things. One benefit of this is that if you know ahead of
time you won't be good at them so it's easier to not hang your self worth on
them. You'll also meet different kinds of people who aren't just CS people
doing projects you can judge them on. Doing lots of different things also
makes you a more interesting person.

Third, in terms of your programming; find more joy in the process and the
trees instead of investing everything in the forest of The Project. If
something turns out worse than you thought but you learned a lot, great.

------
Ntrails
Imagine you could peg your mood to any index you like, that it was a free
choice. Performance at work, social activities, personal relationships,
physical prowess, heck the sodding FTSE 100.

If you had that free choice, what would you choose? I assume a weighted
aggregate of some kind including some of the above?

The truth is you _can_ peg it to anything you choose, and you do that by
prioritising these things in your day to day life. If you spend 1 day a month
doing exercise, you're implicitly weighting that lowly in your mind. If you
spend 10-12 hours a day working, that's how you weight it in your "mood
index".

Just my opinion of course.

~~~
jressey
This is so important to understand. You are in complete control of how
satisfied you are with yourself.

My strategy is to pay attention to the present, for example if I had a 'bad'
day at work and feel stress at home, I might think about how nice the pjs feel
on my skin, or "Trees, wtf those are awesome!"

You are free to exist outside of societal and moral constructs that you
perceive (in this case excelling at work). Once you know the source of your
dissatisfaction, simply stop feeding it.

------
Arjuna
1\. _" That means if my project sucks then I go into a slump, and if my
project turned out to be great then I am elated."_

In my estimation, the only way to break this cycle, to really exit this
emotional roller-coaster that you are riding is to:

 _Let go of the results and focus on the quality of your effort._

For example, check yourself against this question:

"Am I giving 100% to the quality of my effort, in this moment?"

To elaborate: when you build your wall, are you focusing on the wall, or are
you focusing on laying a single, individual brick, with the best quality,
ability and focus that you can muster?

If you focus on the wall, then you are focusing on the end result. I recommend
shifting your focus on laying each individual brick, which is a focus on
effort, on process... a focus on execution.

2\. _" Basically I have pretty bad self esteem and I feel like I compensate
for it by trying to do more and more projects."_

Your self-worth should be based on your entire "package", if you will. It is
complex, but it includes how you treat others, the light that you bring to the
world, the light that you bring to your friendships and relationships, your
helpfulness and respect toward your family, what you bring to your work... I'm
fond of saying, "It's how you bring it." You want to be someone that "brings
it." You want to be firing on all cylinders.

And so, this feeling of self-worth is tied to every single moment, not to
results, which are ultimately ephemeral, and are only a small piece of the
equation. Ultimately, results will fade, and may not always be what you
expected anyway. But, if you focus on execution and process, you will be
better-served to end the emotional roller-coaster of self-doubt, because you
will know that you are bringing it, you will know that, "No matter what the
results are, I delivered to the best of my ability. I strive to bring it in
every moment, and I strive to better the process, and to serve and help those
around me."

Judge yourself (and others) in this manner, and I think it will serve to
change your life, to change your perspective.

Wishing you all the best.

~~~
smacktoward
_> "Am I giving 100% to the quality of my effort, in this moment?"_

Exactly.

Stephen Mitchell's translation of the _Tao Te Ching_ (buy here:
[http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780061142666-0;](http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780061142666-0;)
full text here:
[http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.h...](http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html))
is one of my favorite books. It has some things to say on this subject:

    
    
       Express yourself completely,
       then keep quiet.
       Be like the forces of nature:
       when it blows, there is only wind;
       when it rains, there is only rain;
       when the clouds pass, the sun shines through...
    
       He who stands on tiptoe
       doesn't stand firm.
       He who rushes ahead
       doesn't go far.
       He who tries to shine
       dims his own light.
       He who defines himself
       can't know who he really is.
       He who has power over others
       can't empower himself.
       He who clings to his work
       will create nothing that endures.
    
       If you want to accord with the Tao,
       just do your job, then let go.

------
flatline
When you aren't doing work, stop thinking about work, stop talking about work.
This may include time while you are physically at work. This is a hard lesson
for many programmers. There is a time for thinking, but it's tempting to think
_all the time_ about some problem, or how great we did at Project X, or how
badly we fucked up on Project Y. It is through our thoughts that we end up
identifying with something, and if we are always consumed by our work then we
identify 100% with our job. Our sense of self worth is then dependent upon
something which is largely out of our control, is constantly changing, and
inherently has its ups and downs.

People do all kinds of things like meditation to try to control their
thinking, and these things are great and ultimately can be life-changing, but
I don't think you have to go to great lengths to break the dysfunctional cycle
you are in. Find a hobby. Talk about something else with your co-workers. Talk
to other people at the company who don't program. Go to a meetup about
something not related to programming, and talk about something other than your
job for a while, or just watch and listen to other people. Go for a walk and
look at the scenery. If thoughts about work come up, just notice them and come
back to the present moment.

------
br3w5
Maybe base your self-worth on whether you are doing something you love, or at
least working towards it; rather than the end result of doing that thing. So
regardless of how the projects turn out are you enjoying each day that you get
to sit and code?

It's natural to focus on the end goal and constantly comparing yourself to
others but this only leads to you being hard on yourself which leaves you
focusing too much on things you cannot control which doesn't feel good and
frustrating at best.

Plus definitely find other things outside of coding that give you a break and
you can enjoy yourself out of that context. Sometimes just having fun is a
great way of building self-worth. It also gives you a sense of perspective
that will ultimately help you in your day-to-day work and when socialising.

------
jayhuang
I've been through the same thing. And in a sense, still am. Growing up, I was
always a high achiever and always had to be "the best". And for a long time I
was. After like 12 years of living this life I placed 2nd in a national chess
competition and it devastated me. Who would have known I couldn't be the best
at everything? I'm quite lucky to have gotten a wake up call so early on
instead of ending up a delusional prick. I was never cocky but at one point,
it will get to your head.

Of course many people can tell you how toxic this kind of mentality is, but
it's not without benefits. Some people lack motivation and drive, but people
with this mentality often have no shortage of that.

It's good you've identified this as something negative and are working to
change that. That's step 1. It's not going to happen overnight but it is a
long process. Also keep in mind that success means something different to
everyone. You might think making 200k a year is somewhat successful, but
someone else may be perfectly content and fulfilled volunteering to clean
after the elderly/disabled. Having pride in your work is fine, but in the end,
human connections have a MUCH more significant impact on your life. Just keep
working on yourself (specifically: growth) and being someone people enjoy
being around and you'll do great.

------
yojo
I had the benefit of working with Geoff Ralston. He likes to tell founders
this: "Startups don't fail because they run out of money, startups fail
because their founders give up." It sounds trite, but the insight is generally
applicable. You do not fail when a project or string of projects is bad, you
fail when you stop trying to succeed at the next one.

A few thoughts:

1) There is a dangerous trap for people who are pegged as "smart". The logic
is this: You are smart, therefore you do well at things. If you are told this
enough, you start to reverse it in your head: "You do well at things,
therefore you are smart." If you take that as true, what happens when you do
poorly at something? Does that mean you're not actually smart?

The key thing to remember is that everyone starts off bad at everything.
Everyone. Everything. You get better by trying and learning. At this point in
your life you should optimize for speed of learning. Know that you will have
projects that are objectively bad and failed to meet their stated goals. Also
know that if you never fail an attempt, you are not working at the edge of
your ability, and you are not learning as fast as you could be.

2) Humans are social animals. You are stuck with this, so I encourage you to
learn to live with it. You can think rationally about it all day long, but the
chimp platform you're built on is always going to measure your self-worth by
the strength of your social network and your place in its hierarchy. Go join a
groups of people with like-interests. It will be very hard, and you will
probably feel constantly nervous and awkward. You will be bad at socializing.
But each time you try, you will get a little better. And you won't fail unless
you give up.

~~~
mtbcoder
> "Startups don't fail because they run out of money, startups fail because
> their founders give up."

I'm not really seeing any insight here. The physical economic limitations that
the average start up faces is entirely unrelated to the zeal of its founders.

------
efriese
You have to embrace the suck. I felt the same way for a long time, but as long
as you are learning on every project you'll get better. I used to be very
self-conscious about my code...I guess I still am a little. I stopped trying
to do more projects and focused on one or two. Keep doing revisions until it
starts to look good and you feel good about it.

A few years out of college, I was working at a startup building UAVs. It was
pretty awesome. We had to move for me to take this job and my wife switched
schools for the move. After 2 years she wasn't happy and wanted to move back
to her original school to finish her degree. In order to make the move happen
I had to take a programming job that was horrible. I was doing .NET web sites
and babysitting a SharePoint server. Horrible, but I did it for my wife. I
thought I would have to explain the blip on the radar in the future. While I
was at this job, I met a guy who was a consultant for a silicon valley
startup. He talked me into joining their company. That was 7 years ago. By
taking the crap job, I found a dream job.

Just code, learn, and keep your eyes open.

------
neltnerb
I find this same effect in myself, but I've managed to moderate it down by
identifying things that give me a sense of satisfaction. I suspect these
aren't terribly transferrable, but here are some things that work for me.

\- Mentoring other people. Helping other people who are missing a skill that I
have do something cool gives me that same kind of elation that I'd get from
doing it myself. It doesn't necessarily take piles of time, but feeling
_useful_ is good for my feeling of self worth.

\- Cooking/Working Out/Errands. It sounds silly, but getting a whole pile of
stuff off of my to-do list, even if they're really easy, makes me really
happy. Cooking is great because it's something I can do that people appreciate
pretty much guaranteed, and which is a nice technical skill. Working out is
great because I am both improving myself and learning new skills (for me,
karate for the last 10+ years). Feeling like I'm making progress, clearing up
loose ends, and doing things that are appreciated by others make me feel a
higher sense of self worth.

------
notdonspaulding
You might be interested in the Christian perspective here. This particular
question of where and how to attach meaning to your life is not a new one.
Solomon pondered many questions along these lines in the book Ecclesiastes.
You could read the whole book in an hour or so (and I heartily recommend it).
His conclusion? Everything you do in your entire life is meaningless! [0]

You can come to that same conclusion via multiple world views, by the way.
What makes the Christian perspective unique is that it claims that ultimately,
you as an individual are significant for reasons entirely apart from what you
do in the span of your years on this planet. [1]

Which isn't to say the search for meaning in this life is fruitless. At the
end of the day we all want to point to something we did that mattered. But
Christians believe (and Ecclesiastes ultimately concludes) that true meaning
is judged on a timescale greater than we're used to considering. [2]

[0]:
[https://www.bible.com/bible/59/ecc.1.esv](https://www.bible.com/bible/59/ecc.1.esv)

[1]:
[https://www.bible.com/bible/59/ecc.3.11-15](https://www.bible.com/bible/59/ecc.3.11-15)

[2]:
[https://www.bible.com/bible/59/ecc.12.11-14.esv](https://www.bible.com/bible/59/ecc.12.11-14.esv)

 _(BTW, I 'm very interested in having a discussion group around these sorts
of topics with fellow HNers, in the style of a Socratic Club. If you're
interested, hit me up at the email in my profile.)_

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_Club](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_Club)

------
Varkiil
You are feeling disapointment and satisfaction, which are pretty normal
feelings imo.

You need also to focus on what is between the start and the end of a project.
People may fail but learn a lot and know even more than you because of this
failure. Keep in mind that what make good stories are peripeties.

------
tjradcliffe
As others here have said, look for meaning in your life in other places, both
in the _way_ you do the work (process-orientation) and in your relationships.

But there is an important lesson you'll have to learn to make any of that
work, which is nicely summed up in the considerably under-rated "Julian
Comstock" by Robert Charles Wilson: "Just because nothing lasts doesn't mean
that nothing matters."

Everything you do, everything you are, is transient. The work you are doing to
day will be bitrotted away to nohthing in five or ten years. The relationships
you have will grow and change, and just as surely they will die, or the people
you have them with wil die, or you will die.

The appeal of religion is that it's a trick that allows people to live with
this reality, but the cost is extremely high. The challenge for those of us
unwilling to accept the epistemic and moral compromises religion entails is to
find ways for our lives to be meaningful that don't require quite such massive
self-deception or accepting even a tiny bit of moral authority based on things
that "just made sense" to pre-modern high-status men who knew less about the
world than the average intelligent high-school student today.

Looking inward--meditating and whatnot--doesn't help much on the transience
issue, because everythat that you are will also pass away. It can help on some
practical things, though, including developing an awareness of all the good
things we have simply by being clever enough to be born in the right time and
place.

Looking outward, to help others, to contribute to the world, to develop a
braoder network of social connections that are not purely self-indulgence
(although a life without self-indulgence is a life not worth living) can help,
although it comes with all the frustrations of dealing with human beings. No
good deed goes unpunished.

I'm not a natural helper or teacher of others, but I've found the greatest
satisfactions in my life have come from mentoring and managing in ways that
make people's lives a bit better. One of the things that makes that work is an
awareness that if I help someone learn something, the good I've done will
last. The potential positive effect of mentoring goes on pretty much
indefinitely, long after I've been laid-off from my job or my project has been
shelved or my girlfriend has dumped me or my marriage has ended or my friends
have died or all the other things that really do happen to people in the
course of a long, full and successful life.

------
andrewtbham
It sounds like your life is clouded by judgement.. You are judging yourself
harshly, you judge others. It sounds like black and white thinking. This is
awesome but this sux. These type of issues run deep. You are probably trying
to avoiding shame. I suggest you find help.. religion or therapy or someone
that will listen and understands and accepts you... or look internally with
meditation or mindfulness. anything that helps you accept things as they are.

when you do a project that "sux." remember steve job's very buddhist quote...
the journey is the reward.

------
jmilloy
I broke my version of this cycle by doing things that I knew I would struggle
at. I think it's emotionally valuable to be out of your comfort zone and
"fail". Taking up another hobby is a good idea, but if it is just something
else you have to excel at to enjoy, it could just be more of the same. I went
out of my way to take foreign language courses in high school and college,
despite -- or because \-- I'm not good at it. I'm doing ceramics this year in
part for the same reason.

------
a3n
Tangent, there are two books you may be interested in. Both are about how
people view their jobs or work.

Working, by Studs Terkel.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working:_People_Talk_About_Wha...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working:_People_Talk_About_What_They_Do_All_Day_and_How_They_Feel_About_What_They_Do)

Terkel was a journalist in Chicago, who mastered the art of
interviewing/listening to people, and then writing stories and books about it.
You'd do well to read just about anything he wrote, over the years.

In Working he would interview someone about their work, to get a sense of how
their work defined them and vice versa.

The one I always remember is a stone mason, I think it's the last chapter. He
drove around the stone mason's town with him, and he was constantly pointing
out what he'd built, walls and buildings, some of it quite old.

This used to depress me, because I build nothing that lasts, it's just code.
But over time I've realized that I wasn't looking at the right products of my
work. What I'm really building is a body of experience, and a person informed
by my experience, and a foundation for growth for myself and my family. But
it's taken me a long time to learn that.

The other book is very similar, Gig, about people's jobs and how they related
to them. It's very good, but only Terkel is Terkel, so if you have to choose
I'd read Terkel. But this is good too. [http://www.amazon.com/Gig-Americans-
Talk-About-Their/dp/0609...](http://www.amazon.com/Gig-Americans-Talk-About-
Their/dp/0609807072/)

------
saiya-jin
I'll give a bit different view - my self worth ain't derived much from my
professional career. Sure, I am (a bit) successful, equal or more than most
peers at university. Yeah, compared to my first full time dev job (same
platform as now), my salary jumped 20x over the years. I've worked for
energetics, insurance, army, telco, car manufacturer, local government, retail
sales, banks, and more banks (perm & contractor too). So what?

It's what I do outside of my work defines me much more. I am into travelling,
adventures and mountain-based activities. All weekends possible I spend in
alps trying not to kill myself, but not too hard. During week it's workouts in
gym, interval runs, climbing indoors, biking etc. Not really marathon-style
fit, but quite OK.

When I meet somebody new, I ask 1 question about their work, and don't go
deeper (unless it's super amazing, which in 99% is not). I do care who hey are
as a person, what drives them and what they do in their free time, where they
travelled etc. If they cannot talk about anything but work, I'll pass.

One of benefits is (apart from feeling great, being happy with myself and so
on) - remove my work (for whatever reason), and I am still happy. Add it, I'll
try to find some new professional challenges, but won't break my back and
remove personal life just to prove something to somebody (pre-release
exceptions happen :)). But all in all, we are all unique mix, and each of us
has to find his/her own way to these things.

Want a different perspective? Take a backpack, and head for 2-4 weeks into
some truly exotic destination that is without war, but also no 1st world
coziness all over the place. Buy just return flight, and let things happen. If
you have more time, spend more :)

------
dreamdu5t
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that _your self-worth IS tied
to your accomplishments_. People will tell you "just be happy with who you
are". This is in my honest experience completely bullshit. Doing great things
or things that others value makes people feel good about themselves. That's
just reality as I've observed it. However, doing great things does not
necessarily mean programming or starting a business. I like bicycling and
"doing great things" in that area means winning races, or garnering street
cred on instagram and through other social avenues.

I think your problem is that you need to be smarter about the projects you do,
or find something else to excel at rather than random open source programming.

The people who tell you that you should not tie your self-esteem to your
accomplishments in my experience are just compensating for their own personal
failings (this will be the majority of people you're surrounded by). They
don't want you to be happy from succeeding at something because they're
unhappy with things they've failed at.

------
walterbell
Generic answer for humans: unconditional love.

Tactical suggestion for technical person with high standards: read biographies
of overachieving polymaths and geniuses (e.g. Charles Pearce).

This will illustrate both the futility of inter-human comparisons and the
critical importance of comparisons among all possible versions of you-the-
single-human. To compare possible versions of a single human implies
prototyping, which means "projects that suck" and "versions of you that suck".
Thus, someone afraid of looking bad is ironically unlikely to
seek/explore/reach their potential.

You are the project. What matters most are the _side effects_ of projects upon
you and other human beings, since these form a feedback loop which influence
you and other human beings. There are projects/activities which require no
technology, which can have profound side effects on humans.

------
auganov
I agree with this video a lot
[https://vimeo.com/85040589](https://vimeo.com/85040589) . TLDR (or TLDW :-D):
Ambitious people usually have pretty good taste and can tell what's good work
and what's lame work. We feel very sad about our lame work, because we know
it's not good work. It leads to a toxic spiral where it's painful to work
because we know what we're going to produce is probably going to be lame.
Hence the only way out is to force yourself to produce a large volume of work
and eventually your work will reach or approximate your own taste.

I'm not sure if that's the only solution, or if it applies to everyone, but I
definitely like the concept of a "taste-gap" and I'm experiencing it a lot.

------
mpdehaan2
I tried to write about some of this recently:

[http://michaeldehaan.net/post/117078569362/the-philosophy-
of...](http://michaeldehaan.net/post/117078569362/the-philosophy-of-being-
happy-in-tech)

At the code level, I'd suggest taking pride in the individual smaller bits as
well as the larger bits, and side projects can help too if you really feel the
need, but I also like the suggestion about enjoying other hobbies too, and
then do really good work on working hours. You can do really good and robust
technical work on some uninteresting projects (though working in a more
interesting problem domain might be good for you), too - it's mostly about
changing the way your mental evaluation function works.

------
davidshepherd7
I had problems with this sort of thing while I was doing my PhD and working
stupid hours every day. When it got really bad I decided to cut back to a
normal working week and it seems to have helped (eventually). So if you're
working all the time: try to work less.

------
jeremymcanally
Yes. It's a constant battle for me, but I have to keep reminding myself that
my self worth isn't based on anyone else's perception of me. And it's
especially not based on my work.

You eventually have to reach a place where you realize two things: you will
suck at life sometimes and your worth isn't tied to those times. Failure is
inevitable for most people, and the sooner you accept that failure or
stumbling or some other fault (no matter how minor) will happen, the sooner
you can realize they don't own you and don't define who you are.

I mean, honestly, the answer is right there in the word itself: self-worth.
Your self-worth should be derived from people who value you for more than your
work. It should be derived from someone valuing _you_ not any sort of external
criteria. It could be your wife/husband, your dog, your God, or whomever, but
ultimately it boils down to _you_ learning to value yourself beyond these
things.

I used to put an intense amount of my self-worth into my work. A totally
unhealthy amount. I felt good about myself because I was in my early 20's,
writing books, being invited to speak at international conferences, working at
the hottest startups, making a bunch of money. I was building my self image
around this empire of dirt that I'd cobbled together based on how good of a
programmer I am (and how well I could network). Then I tried to start a
consultancy, which didn't work out great. I tried to build products there,
that failed. I got fired from my next job. I felt like utter crap because I
didn't understand why I was being personally punished and devalued. My work
had betrayed me!

But it was at this point that I had to realize that anyone or anything that
judged me by my work or my ability to work at the cool startup or my ability
to be a part of some project wasn't judging me at all. They were judging my
work, and I can't let my value and self image be tied up in that. For me, the
first person I needed to teach that lesson to was myself.

And I did. And it wasn't fun. It's not fun to totally change your worldview,
but oh my gosh, I feel so much better about life now. Not feeling like I live
and die by the work I do frees me to do some of the best work I've done in my
whole life. Sure, I'm not working at America's Next Great Startup and sure I'm
not speaking at 2 conferences a month and sure I'm not signing up book deals
all the time now, but holy crap I'm so much happier.

So, yes. People experience this exact thing. And it can crush you. But please
don't let it. Find the worth within yourself and surround yourself with things
and people that will support that.

------
Kinnard
What exactly is wrong with deriving your sense of self worth from your work?
The problems of allowing your work to effect your mood seem obvious to
me(lower productivity for one). There's no point in getting down on yourself
when your work doesn't meet your goals/expectations. Just get back at it, or
take a break! Personally, I feel like I came here (into the world) to work,
and I'm glad about it. I don't expect everyone to be this way and I support
others in realizing whatever it is that brings them self-worth. But me, I came
to work!

------
ejcx
When projects I have fail I am generally pretty proud to talk about them.
Usually it means that I have some new weird subset of knowledge that very few
other people have.

This is crazy cool. People, technical and non-technical, generally love to
hear these personal stories. They eat it up.

Working on things so they become popular isn't a good way to approach the
process of working on projects. Working on things because you think it is cool
IS.

If something you work on fails just know you have THAT much more knowledge
about whatever you were doing than the next person now.

------
andersthue
I have experienced the same problems during my life.

I found that even though I intellectual understood the process vs. event based
life I could not quite let go of celebrating events and being grumpy about
past unfair events.

Then I read Simon Sineks "Start with why" and finally figured out my why
(happiness) and integrated it into my way of making decisions.

Since then I have really found that my self worth has grown and become more
balanced - because the decisions I make is right for me and since the ring
true to my why I do not care (as much) what others think.

------
DanBC
If you think you can learn from a book there is something in England called
"books on prescription". Here's a list of the books they carry:

[http://www.overcoming.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=6320](http://www.overcoming.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=6320)

(That page makes strong claims for efficacy and I'm not sure they can justify
the strength of those claim. Still, some people find these books useful.)

------
ianbicking
Not exactly an answer, but I appreciated this speech about explicitly
acknowledging the worth of others as intrinsic, not contingent on performance:
[http://mathyawp.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-lesson-of-grace-
in-...](http://mathyawp.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-lesson-of-grace-in-
teaching.html)

------
hasenj
Maybe base it on how much effort and progress you're making instead of the
immediate result or the current level.

But to be honest, if your worth is not based on your work, then what could it
be based it on? Your looks? Your hair style?

I can't really think of anything more significant.

~~~
tvz
your relationships? the difference you make to other people's lives? how kind,
funny, generous, intelligent you are?

~~~
hasenj
Relationships? Rather transient ..

Difference you make? Part of your work ..

"Kind, funny, generous, intelligent" are all nice to have, but not enough to
get the amount of respect from other people that can satisfy your self esteem
.. (at least for me)

Discipline, self control, vision, direction .. all seem more important to me.

------
binarysolo
As others have already said, life is the journey, not the checklist. It's just
that other people can share the checklist way better than the journey, and
maybe you doing the checklist benefits them in some way.

------
awolden
[http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-ten-commandments-of-
egoless...](http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-ten-commandments-of-egoless-
programming/)

------
tfigueroa
You have permission to enjoy life simply because you are alive. You do not
need to be qualified. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling something.

------
haxorzies
Drink some whiskey, smoke some pot, dance

------
alfiedotwtf
8 points, 21 minutes, 0 comments. We're all here hitting ctrl+F5 for a serious
answer...

~~~
dmingod
+1 to that

------
mooreds
Volunteer someplace. Helping someone else will get you out of your
accomplishment mindset.

------
floppydisk
TL;DR:

1) Write down everything you've learned in the last 7 years regarding your
chosen career. It'll show you how much you've grown as a CS student and
programmer. Gives you perspective. You 5yrs ago probably couldn't be doing
what you are today.

2) Get off the computer and do some activities that force you to learn and the
emphasis is on personal improvement. I would recommend something that's not
competitive but allows you to see continual improvement through practice and
effort, like weightlifting. Stick with it.

3) You are't your work. your self worth as a human and a person isn't
contingent on the level of awesomeness of your work. Some projects will be
awesome, most will be average/ok, and some will be terrible. It's OK!

4) Rebuilding your self-esteem and changing your mind set will take time and
focused work, but it's worth it.

I was in the same boat as you when I was doing my CS degree in undergrad. I
was fortunate to be surrounded by a group of peers who were quite gifted at
coding and made complex projects look incredibly easy and were quite humble
about it. Conversely, I always felt like I was struggling compared to them
because I ended up having to work harder at the same projects and usually
didn't do as well. It was a self-esteem blow because I was measuring my self-
worth as a CS student based on how well I compared to my classmates and the
level of effort I put in (the more effort I put in, the less smart I had to
be, or so the train of thought went).

Before you do anything else, stop, sit down, and write out everything you've
learned in the past 10 years regarding web development. Seriously. What was
the first web programming language you learned? First website you built?
Second web programming language, second website etc. Did you get better each
time? Was the next one better than the first either in terms of refined skills
from previous experience or because you tried something new? I'll bet you it
did. Also classes. Did you start with CS101 or thereabouts? Junior year you
should be kicking around with algorithms 'n such depending on the school.
That's a huge step forward in knowledge. Look at all you've learned and how
you've grown over the years. You've progressed and gotten better with each
website, language learned, and class completed. You are getting better. Focus
on continuing to get better and learn rather than being judged solely by your
product. This might be a poor analogy, but think of artists. An artist pours
his soul into expression and sticks the pictures in a gallery for every
passerby to come by and gander at. Some people think it's amazing and the
artist captures part of the human experience. Other people think a cow could
draw better with their tail while chewing cud. If the artist always listens to
the people and bases their identity as an artist based on what people say or
how they compare to other artists they will never push forward in their medium
and seek to please others rather than grow. Focus on growth. Rather than
looking at yourself as projects, look at yourself as a lifelong learner
beginning a grand adventure. When you have conversations with people, ask them
what they're learning and what about that interests them rather than judging
their projects--you'll pick up some cool stuff this way. Ask them how they're
incorporating what they're learning into their projects.

The second thing I will tell you to do is get away from the computer for a
period of time. Don't stop working on projects, but set limits and go do
something else. I highly recommend picking up an activity you know little to
anything about and will require you to learn something new to get better.
Doing this will give you some perspective that it's not about where you are
now, it's about what you're learning as you grow. For me, it was
weightlifting. You start out weak and with terrible form. Over time, you start
seeing improvements as you get better bit by bit and your watch your lifts go
from brand new rookie (45lb bar) to heavy (>200lbs) with sustained practice.
Focus on the learning part of the process and iteratively getting better. The
goal here is to build your self-efficacy in your ability to keep learning and
growing and that your identity isn't tied up in being "wow". Pursuit of a
learning activity outside your normal venues will give you something to draw
on when you're down in other areas "this kinda sucks right now, but it's like
<X>. I'm getting better even when it's meh." Go find something you can get
iteratively better at (other than programming) and don't give up.

Third, to reiterate what a lot of other people have said, you aren't your
work. Straight up. To paraphrase some of the best advice I've ever heard: A
small percentage of projects/things/days will be amazing, you'll be at the top
of the world and feel fantastic. Some percentage of projects/things/days will
be terrible and you'll feel it. Something will feel off and you'll know it,
and that's ok. Identify what's off and see if you can go about fixing it next
time. It's OK, they happen. Finally, the majority of projects/things/days will
be Ok. Not fantastic, not terrible and that's just fine too. Don't flog
yourself if your projects don't turn out amazing. Not every project will be
the bomb diggity now, or later on professionally and that's ok. Some websites
will be amazing, some websites will be ok, and that's just fine. You're going
to learn things by doing each one and we tend to learn a lot more from our
failures than our successes.

I will say this, it's not easy to change your mind set. You can't snap your
fingers and voila new mindset. It doesn't work that way, never has, never
will. Rather, you need to be deliberate about it. The best way to go about
doing this is to set short term goals that are specific, measurable, and
attainable focused on learning. I.E. This week I will read 10 pages about <X>
technology and implement a mini-test program for it. Keep doing this over and
over. The emphasis here is on the process of learning rather than the outcome.
The mini-test program could crap out, but you'll learn more by fixing it
rather than getting it right the first time. Pursuing this will also expose
you to the idea of building mastery through continual learning rather than
building projects other people find awesome. Also keep a learning journal--it
can be as easy as a text file with dates and record what you did, what worked,
what didn't work, and what you learned going forward. Over time, this process
will help reorient your way of thinking towards one of continual learning and
building mastery rather than trying to always build an awesome project
everyone praises. People are fickle, you can please some of the people some of
the time, but you can't please all the people all the time. However, you have
the power to make yourself better. Focus on that.

If you want more scientific information, go read up on implicit theories of
intelligence and ability and goal orientation
([https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=implicit+theories...](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=implicit+theories+of+intelligence&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C47&as_sdtp=))
and pay attention to a lot of the work by Caroline Dweck. She's the mother of
implicit theory research. In psychology terms, so you know what you're looking
at, you are expressing a performance goal orientation (measuring self compared
to others, feel down when you don't think you add up). What you want to pay
attention to is the discussion of a malleable or incremental theory of
intelligence/ability.

------
jacknews
I don't mean to be rude, but this is a bullshit perspective and a direct
result of the very American imperative of "winner takes all", or "second best
is nowhere", etc.

Dump the computer and travel outside the USA for a few months to a year, and
you might catch a glimpse of life as it really is.

Life (in general, including professional life, BTW) is all about the
connections you make with other people, not your kaggle/topcoder/etc ranking.

