
Citigroup Has ‘Technical Issue’ as Customers Say Accounts Frozen - apaprocki
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/citigroup-has-technical-issue-as-customers-say-accounts-frozen
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ratsbane
The timing of this as the switchover of Costco cards from Amex to Citi is
happening certainly suggests a scaling problem regardless of the "updating its
systems" excuse.

I've heard Amex blamed for losing the Costco deal, but given Amex's
superlative customer service and Citi's less-than-optimal reputation, maybe
Costco will turn out to be the bigger loser.

~~~
pokstad
My experiences going from Costco Amex to Costco Citibank:

* Fraud protection learning seems to be reset from the old Amex history so I've had a regular purchase (sushi joint) get flagged.

* Haven't found the ability to add spouse to web based account management.

* New card issued has smart chip in it, which is a pain at most retailers since their readers require "eating" the card and take longer payment processing time before the card is ejected. So basically my older Amex was more convenient while using "inferior" tech.

* Costco gas pumps seem to be updated with new Visa prompts for cards. I wonder what kind of hassle it was to update that system.

* Apple Pay has a hard time recognizing my card with camera input. I had to manually enter information.

~~~
sbierwagen
EMV (chip) cards are far, far more secure than magstripe cards. It's a
tradeoff I'm happy to make, since my card number's been stolen 3 times in the
last two years.

~~~
cplease
How are the EMV chip + signature cards in USA being far, far more secure?

User can just swipe and sign a stolen card same as always. Most retailers stll
either incapable of using them or very forgiving as to signatures.

Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a
regular legacy card (until those become uncommon).

Finally, they can just steal the chip + signature cared, use the chip and they
can still sign the slip and use it sama as ever.

~~~
Symbiote
> Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a
> regular legacy card (until those become uncommon).

I don't think so. The card reader would demand that the chip be used. If
there's no chip, the cashier should then call the police, as that's evidence
of fraud.

~~~
chipperyman573
If there's no chip, do you really think a cashier would call the police? The
cashier would assume the reader is broken, stick the card (without a chip) in
the chip reader 3 times to force a swipe and apologise for a "broken reader"

~~~
ThisIs_MyName
True enough, but most of my chip cards will not work with the mag strip if the
card reader supports chip. If I slide the card, I get a message on the POS
screen telling me to use the chip.

The guy who steals my mag stripe has to find a store without chip readers to
make use of the stripe.

~~~
cplease
> The guy who steals my mag stripe has to find a store without chip readers to
> make use of the stripe.

Like 90% of stores in USA today? Oh the pain. And what is likely to happen
after the clerk apologizes for the reader being broken is that he keys in the
card number manually. What, manual entry is going to be blocked too? Good luck
with that. As long as lost sales to nonworking transactions >>> fraud, it's
happening.

Edit, source, Krebs: [http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/02/the-great-emv-fake-
out-no...](http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/02/the-great-emv-fake-out-no-chip-
for-you/comment-page-3/)

In February, Visa claims all of 17% of retailers have chip-capable terminals.
My experience is that only a small fraction of chip-capable terminals are
actually integrated with a POS system that enables them. Leading to the
ridiculous situation of consumers facing 83% of retail locations with no chip
reader, having to swipe, most of the rest having a useless chip slot and icon,
and some small percentage <10% of locations actually having a working,
functional chip slot (visually indistinguable from nonfunctional ones). Even
where they do work, usability is poor. Beeps, lights, multitudinous prompts or
even spoken instructions, and processing times in excess of five seconds or
more where the stripes are just swipe and sign a second or two later.

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kchoudhu
Anyone who has spent any amount of time dealing with Citi saw this coming from
a mile away. Over at /r/churning, Citi's customer facing tech stack is the
butt of many jokes, and there is no reason to believe their merchant facing
services are any better.

Example: I was recently told by Citi to create a new account after getting
locked out of my old one. This isn't the first time this has happened: I am
now on username.4 on their website, and my wife and I have made a point of not
putting any critical charges on Citi cards.

Costco may have saved a few bucks by ditching Amex, but they'll pay a price in
customer satisfaction in the long run. Given their usual customer focused
orientation, I'm surprised they thought this would be a good tradeoff.

~~~
kowdermeister
> I am now on username.4

May I ask why didn't you drop by their office and tell them they are idiots
and cancel your account after the second or third time?

~~~
kchoudhu
Because dealing with their stupidity has allowed me to not pay for air travel
over the last decade.

Life is a series of tradeoffs, sadly.

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onlycommenting
USAA recently had the same issue; transactions not processing. They, like
Costco, switched credit card issuers. So it may very well be a scaling issue
like importing millions of customers into the DB.

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dmix
> . A customer-service representative answering the firm’s help line said the
> bank is updating its systems, and was advising callers to try again in four
> hours.

A really bad time to be updating any software. I feel bad for the people who
are trying to buy prescription drugs or groceries. Not everyone has backup
credit cards.

~~~
mmsmatt
I doubt any transaction processing systems got updated at any bank in the past
48hrs with the Brexit vote in the air.

~~~
apaprocki
Then again I found this:
[https://www.iggsoftware.com/support/articles/ibank-5/citiban...](https://www.iggsoftware.com/support/articles/ibank-5/citibank-
down-for-maintenance-from-62016-62416/)

~~~
ratsbane
Good find. An "extended major release" while they're onboarding 11 million new
customers sounds painful.

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apaprocki
Note: this isn't just credit cards -- I personally found this right as it
happened. My ATM card was declined for any amount at a BoA ATM. Annoyed, I
went down to the Citi branch outside where all 8 or so ATMs had "out of order"
screens and there was half a dozen people milling about saying it was down
everywhere. Took to Twitter and lots were repeating it and saying web access
and the mobile apps were down as well.

~~~
themartorana
I know you could go inside, but this seems like the kind of thing that could
cause a run on the bank.

Well, at least if Mary Poppins is to be believed.

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notadoc
Bad timing with Brexit paranoia, too.

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glasz
is it just me or do such things happen more and more? i remember those things
not occurring years and years in the past.

~~~
ams6110
"move fast and break things" was a philosophy that would get you fired years
in the past.

~~~
toomuchtodo
It still does in the real world.

