
Golden Rules for Making Money (1880) - perceptronas
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/barnum/moneygetting/moneygetting.html
======
billfruit
One modern trick to earn a tiny bit of extra money: Use credit cards for
buying/paying anything at all, never use debit cards or cash: Credit cards
usually pay a small reward point for spends which can often be redeemed as a
cash discount later, and also since the expenses go to the credit card, the
cash in the savings account stay untouched till the day you make the credit
card bill payment, which will keep earning interest for the additional days it
remains in your account(Which may be a significant amount over long term, in a
high interest rate country).

In some countries you can route large payments like insurance premium payments
through the credit card. Sometimes insurance companies even have investment
products which they claim are "insurance policies", that can be bought with
credit cards too.

~~~
kovrik
What about fees?

Not sure about US, but I think in NZ all credit cards with cashback have fees.
And I remember there was a research or something concluding that you had to
spend at least ~$3000 (don't remember exactly) per month using cashback credit
card to break even.

Also, credit cards are not accepted everywhere. And often there is a minimum
transaction amount as well.

~~~
Abundnce10
The Capital One Venture Rewards card gives me 2% back on all purchases (I'm in
the US). It comes with a $60 per year fee. So, if I spend more than $3,000 on
the card over the course of the year it's a net positive. Now, they have
access to all of my purchase data but I get around $700 every year to spend on
travel. I've weighed the costs/benefits and it's worth it to me.

~~~
sgwae
Why not get the citi double cash, or fidelity 2% back with no annual fee?

------
kileywm
Interesting snippet of wisdom from the article:

> The real comforts of life cost but a small portion of what most of us can
> earn. Dr. Franklin says “it is the eyes of others and not our own eyes which
> ruin us. If all the world were blind except myself I should not care for
> fine clothes or furniture.”

In reading a few of the chapters, it was really interesting to see the dollar
amounts written. They seemed rather high for 1880.

> She has a nice one thousand dollar camel's hair shawl, and she will make
> Smith get her an imitation one, and she will sit in a pew right next to her
> neighbor in church, in order to prove that she is her equal.

Inflation calculators put that camel shawl at nearly $25,000 (2019 dollars).

~~~
akiselev
There used to be a lot fewer luxury goods and they were a lot more expensive
because most came from "exotic" far away places (and many were valued solely
because of it). Camel's hair, especially, likely wasn't an automated textile
like cotton and it's a rather expensive material to begin with (a good shawl
would likely run into four figures even now).

$1,000 is roughly two to five years average income (depending on the state) in
1880 so if the average family income right now is ~50k and a family of
professionals makes 250k, it's not that far fetched. Especially when you
consider that church was the important social outing for a majority of the
population.

------
loudmax
Our Fake History podcast has an excellent series on PT Barnum. He was
something of a genius promoter (and self-promoter). Today he's best remember
for his circus act, but that was just one of a long line of productions he put
on.

In Barnum's parlance, a "humbug" was a practical joke played on his audience.
A less charitable interpretation is that of some of Barnum's humbugs are
downright fraudulent. It's a fun story.

Episode 1 of 3 is here:
[https://ourfakehistory.com/index.php/season-2/episode-32-who...](https://ourfakehistory.com/index.php/season-2/episode-32-who-
was-the-prince-of-humbugs-part-i/)

------
acabal
Shameless plug, free nicely formatted epub of The Art of Money Getting for
your ereader of choice at Standard Ebooks:
[https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-t-barnum/the-art-of-
mone...](https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-t-barnum/the-art-of-money-
getting)

------
dang
2007:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=88544](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=88544)

2008:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=310056](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=310056)

2016:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11320169](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11320169)

~~~
Gpetrium
This is an interesting point you may have raised regarding re-post. At one
end, repeated information will lead some to think it is counter-productive,
think it is a karma-hungry person or lead to backlash. On the other end, there
are many individuals that can benefit from older articles that they have yet
to see.

Where to find the balance? We have yet to see.

~~~
dang
Reposts are ok after a year or so. This in in the FAQ:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html).

The reason for providing links like that is simply that people find previous
discussions interesting.

------
rc_kas
All praise be unto this fourmilab.ch website. This is the old internet. The
internet that I first fell in love with. Its purely about the information,
just an honest straight provider of information. Its a truly loyal ode to the
term "information highway". These types of websites are so rare now.

------
JeanMarcS
> Young men starting in life should avoid running into debt. There is scarcely
> anything that drags a person down like debt. It is a slavish position to get
> in...

Well, that put student debt in perspective no ?

~~~
slg
It is weird to see this mindset on a site that is basically founded on the
idea that taking on debt can be valuable. What would the startup scene be like
if everyone avoided debt at all costs?

~~~
lumost
Selling equity in a startup is very different from taking on debt, with debt
your committing the business to a strategy, if it doesn't work the business
will probably fold.

While this makes sense for capex intensive businesses. It's an irrational
choice for a tech startup that may need to pivot, partner or be acquired. For
those choices you need a source of capital with similar incentives as the
founders.

~~~
cat199
> Selling equity in a startup is very different from taking on debt, with debt
> your committing the business to a strategy

wha? selling debt you are committing yourself to a financial obligation,
selling equity you are committing yourself to a strategy in the hope that that
strategy will be successful.. yes, it is not binding fiscally and so the
strategy can be renegotiated without penalty, but that doesn't by proxy imply
the converse that debt inherently requires a fixed strategy..

this is why you can get cash flow/line of credit loans based simply on
historical accounting data, etc..

that said getting loans under false pretenses is also fraud. YMMV

------
dev_dull
> _Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a
> terrible master._

Some great quotes in there.

------
sixhobbits
Funny how some of it seems like good common sense and then you get

> Some men have a foolish habit of telling their business secrets. If they
> make money they like to tell their neighbors how it was done. Nothing is
> gained by this, and ofttimes much is lost. Say nothing about your profits,
> your hopes, your expectations, your intentions. And this should apply to
> letters as well as to conversation. Goethe makes Mephistophiles say: “Never
> write a letter nor destroy one.” Business men must write letters, but they
> should be careful what they put in them. If you are losing money, be
> specially cautious and not tell of it, or you will lose your reputation.

In 2019, it seems openness and transparency (eg Buffer) can form the
foundations of a profitable strategy

~~~
Balgair
In _The Count of Monte Cristo_ , the Count ruins Danglers' fortune via bond
market manipulation per his revenge plans. One of the ways he keeps track of
how the ruination progress is via Danglers' own words. At first, Danglers
boasts loudly in parties about how much he has lost, but eventually he is
cowed and no longer talks about money or his fortune. The Count keep track of
his boisterousness as a barometer of his revenge and it's progress.

Its a great book and well worth the read, despite it's size.

~~~
billfruit
The Count of Monte Cristo, is such a rollicking story from beginning to end,
almost the entire 1300+ pages.

------
ohaideredevs
I am yet to hear one concrete piece of useful advice on "how to make money."

The ONLY things I can say with certainty in life, as far as productive
activities go is something like "workout, eat right, sleep enough, drink
enough water." That's literally it.

~~~
jimbokun
This guy has plenty of concrete advice:

[https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/category/mmm-
classics/](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/category/mmm-classics/)

It is very similar to "workout, eat right, sleep enough, drink enough water",
as they are things that "everyone" knows they should do, but few have the will
power and self discipline to actually do them.

Budget. Get your expenses under your income. Set aside an emergency fund. Pay
off your debts as quickly as possible. Then start investing for retirement,
house, kids college, etc. While avoiding new debt.

That's pretty much it. Dave Ramsey and many other advisers say roughly the
same thing, including the introduction to Barnum's book:

[http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/barnum/moneygetting/money...](http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/barnum/moneygetting/moneygetting_chap1.html)

Ramsey pretty much says this stuff is simple in his course, and spends most of
his time on the emotional and motivational aspects of putting the advice into
practice. For example, he advocates paying off your smallest debt first, not
the one with the highest interest rate. This is solely for the motivational
impact, because seeing a debt disappear completely will inspire you to keep
going and attack the next one, even if it's sub-optimal from an economic
perspective.

~~~
astura
The advise Dave Ramsey and Mr. Money Mustache give are really only applicable
once you already did the hard part and built a steady career. Their advice
isn't going to help someone who works at McDonalds with several kids with
several deadbeat baby daddies and no family support get out of poverty,
nevermind build wealth. The fact that most of Mr. Money Mustache's readers
(who answer surveys) are engineers really reinforces that.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone here, I'm actually describing a good friend
of mine.

That being said, I don't know what will, so I don't have any suggestions.

~~~
JoshTriplett
[https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/07/25/50-jobs-
over-5000...](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/07/25/50-jobs-
over-50000-without-a-degree-part-1/)

[https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/05/50-jobs-
over-5000...](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/05/50-jobs-
over-50000-without-a-degree-part-2/)

------
empath75
A good way to make money is to sell a book about how to make money.

~~~
plausibilities
Reminds me of that dude who made a rather impressive amount of money posting
classified ads on how to make money where the "secret methodology" being sold
turned out to be a set of guidelines which simply instructed the buyer to
follow suit.

~~~
jimbokun
Sounds like an urban legend, but I hope it's true.

~~~
blunte
Most of the MLM industry is based on this exact principle.

------
gridlockd
_" Unless a man enters upon the vocation intended for him by nature, and best
suited to his peculiar genius, he cannot succeed. I am glad to believe that
the majority of persons do find their right vocation. Yet we see many who have
mistaken their calling, from the blacksmith up (or down) to the clergyman. You
will see, for instance, that extraordinary linguist the “learned blacksmith,”
who ought to have been a teacher of languages; and you may have seen lawyers,
doctors and clergymen who were better fitted by nature for the anvil or the
lapstone."_

#learntocode

------
sigmaprimus
Don't Blab >>> This chapter/paragraph goes against everything I believe in,
the entire opensource community is based on sharing. I am an aspiring farmer
with a tech addiction and if it wasn't for people sharing their successes
through YouTube and a lesser extent farmers that write books, this "City Boy"
wouldn't have survived my first year on the farm. I also agree Internet sucks
in the country, but it's still better than encyclopedias!!

~~~
jmdeon
Hey sigmaprimus I'd love to hear more about your transition from "City Boy" to
farmer! I'm thinking of taking the leap in a few years after saving "enough"
capital. I can put my contact info in my bio if you have time to private
message.

~~~
sigmaprimus
I am still in transition to be honest, I have finally got to the point that I
am living full time on the farm now but have not managed to make a profit yet.
Farming is a great lifestyle but the farming lifestyle is not a great
business, not yet at least. I am planning on publishing a blog/vlog this year
and will definitely share it with HN. If you are looking for some inspiration
though, look into Joel Salatin,John Suscovich and Curtis Stone on YouTube.

------
kerouanton
Thanks for the link, it's a nice discovery. fourmilab.ch is a real website for
hackers, lots of interesting things. Also, I didn't know its author, John
Walker, creator of AutoDesk AutoCAD was living in Switzerland and still so
interested in topics such as astronomy, C64, science fiction, Kerbal Space
Program and more nerdy things.

------
smn1234
I like how it begins with... "In the United States, where we have more land
than people..."

~~~
dev_dull
Only people living in big cities think this isn’t still true.

If you so desire, huge portions of land in the country “flyover” USA are yours
to be had for very cheap.

Of course it’s difficult to get internet there, so how will the millennials
make it?

~~~
fartcannon
Some millennials are in their mid 30's. Isn't it time to pick on a new
generation?

~~~
ngngngng
Millenial here. Did this happen with other generations? Where the term was
just used as a derogatory way to refer to young people?

~~~
bilbo0s
It happened for Millennials and Baby Boomers.

But not so much for the Greats, the Silents, and Generation X. My theory is
that the Greats, the Silents, and Gen X were all wartime generations. The
Silents and Gen X were also relatively small generations, there really aren't
that many of them. Add to that the fact that all of those generations had some
level of dispossession coupled with an even more impressive level of
productive wealth creation, and you can kind of see why no one really picked
on them as much as what we see today. The Greats were, well, the Greatest
Generation. 'Nuff said there. The Silents were a wartime generation, born in
the depths of the depression, who never really whined about their lot and
because there really weren't many of them, they were, person for person,
likely the most productive generation in our history. Generation X was given
the name because they were the black spot. They were the first generation that
would grow up to have _less_ than their parents. They kind of just ran with
it, and despite having war after war to deal with, ushered in one of the most
transformative eras of wealth creation in mankind's history.

All that said, actual _leadership_ of the country seems to skip over those
kinds of generations. (With the exception of the Greats.) Not many leaders
from the Silents or Gen X, but a large number of well known leaders from the
Baby Boomers and even the Millennials. From Mayor Pete to AOC, the Millennials
seem to outshine Gen X as far as leaders are concerned, for better or worse.
In the same way, the Baby Boomers outshone the Silents to the point where the
Silents are almost forgotten to history. Generation X might have been
forgotten were it not for their technological innovations and achievements.

Anyway, that's my theory. So Millennials shouldn't take all the ribbing too
hard, because if history is any indication, in the end, you'll likely be the
ones in charge. Again, for better or worse.

~~~
rafiki6
Depending on who's definitions of birth date ranges you use, Obama might be
considered a Gen X president.

Also, not entirely sure why there's a generation called "the Greatest
Generation". We can say they were all war heroes and suffered etc., but there
were also jerks in that generation who started those wars. We are all products
of our time. It kind of sucks to just lump everyone based on their birth date
and stereotype them.

------
sigmaprimus
Just a small observation but I feel important: This article has two titles,
"Golden Rules for Making Money" and "Art Of Money Getting". You can "Get
Money" without being productive, to "Make Money" is inherently productive.

------
jhallenworld
"Once you have their money, never give it back."

[https://memory-
beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisi...](https://memory-
beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisition)

------
canaus
> We are all, no doubt, born for a wise purpose.

I've heard and seen this time and time again and yet there's no advice on how
to find that purpose. It's always easy to say, "do what you love" but how do
you find what you love?

~~~
jimbokun
I think it's terrible advice.

Do what brings the most value to others, that you have the talents to
accomplish, and that you also enjoy doing. I think the intersection of those
sets is the most likely place to find one's "purpose".

There are plenty of things you might "love" to do, that will leave you
destitute and unfulfilled if you devote your life to doing them.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
It has to align with your values, there is no point going to work on missile
software if you are a pacifist at heart. The work needs to be meaningful.

There should be some element of mastery, you need to be challenged in your
work but not completely out of your depth.

You also need a degree of autonomy, this is what makes most corporate life so
miserable, they have so many rules you can't decide anything.

Money doesn't matter so much, most people adjust their lifestyle to their
income and get used to it.

------
netspider
It simple your daily income must be superior to your outcome thats it

------
robbrit
The first few paragraphs remind me of a book called "Your Money or Your Life",
which provides a simple way of expense tracking that can help build up
savings. I recommend it for anybody who likes money.

------
davidhbolton
My favourite quote on wealth (not in this book) is "The best way to make a
small fortune on the internet is start with a large fortune".

~~~
tonyedgecombe
That is frequently quoted with regards to the restaurant business.

------
Animats
Personally I like Benj. Franklin's maxims better. Much the same content, but
pithier.

------
DigiMortal
I found this to be insightful and helpful. Thank you for sharing.

------
sudoaza
1- Be born rich 2- ? Whatever 3- Profit

~~~
adamredwoods
Sadly, this is to a large extent, the correct answer. Opportunities depend on
income level when born. Citation:

[https://www.brookings.edu/research/economic-mobility-of-
fami...](https://www.brookings.edu/research/economic-mobility-of-families-
across-generations/)

[https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/poverty/publication/fair-...](https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/poverty/publication/fair-
progress-economic-mobility-across-generations-around-the-world)

PT Barnum, on the other hand, makes a great case for living within one's
means, which is always valuable advice.

------
mruts
Life tells you what you should do in two ways: what you like to do and what
you are good at. Of course liking something and being good at it often go hand
in hand.

When you are good at something, it’s fun to keep doing it so you feel better
than other people. When you like to do something, you often get good at it.

~~~
jimbokun
I would add to those two "and brings value to others". There are plenty of
things you might love doing and are good at, that will leave you destitute and
unfulfilled if you devote your life to them.

