
How Do We Define Affordable  Housing? - DoreenMichele
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/3/15/how-do-we-define-affordable-housing
======
skookumchuck
It seems fairly obvious that the solution is to allow denser construction in
the city cores, as well as allowing smaller residences to be built (such as
dormitories at the lower end).

~~~
chroem-
There is also a very strong, but potentially unpalatable, correlation between
driveable cities and highly affordable housing. Something having to do with
supply and demand.

~~~
uiri
A personal automobile is _the_ single most expensive form of transportation
(except for a private jet, of course) on a per mile basis. Reasons around
palatability (it's also the most dangerous form of transportation) aside, it
doesn't matter how "affordable" housing is in a driving-only neighborhood when
you're talking about people who don't have enough money to afford a car in the
first place.

~~~
chroem-
Let's do some napkin math and put these assertions to the test.

Average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in Seattle, WA is $1869 a month [1]. A
PugetPass costs about $80 a month. Living in Seattle without a car costs $1949
a month, or $23.4k a year.

Average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in St. Louis, MO is $817 a month [2]. A
decent used car that will last at least four years before needing maintenance
costs a total of $4000, or an average of $83 a month. The national average for
car insurance is $815 a year [3] (Missouri's is even lower), coming out to $68
a month. Now let's assume your used car gets a modest 25MPG, gas costs $3.00 a
gallon, and your work is 15 miles away, plus you drive 20 miles on weekends.
That's $82 a month in gas. Living with a car in St. Louis costs $1050 a month,
or $12.6k a year.

Living with a car in a driveable city is $900/month and $10.8k/year cheaper
than living in a non-driveable city. By this metric, non-driveable cities have
housing that is 85% more expensive.

[1] [https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-
trends/us/wa/se...](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-
trends/us/wa/seattle/)

[2] [https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-
trends/us/mo/sa...](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-
trends/us/mo/saint-louis/)

[3] [https://www.thesimpledollar.com/how-much-does-car-
insurance-...](https://www.thesimpledollar.com/how-much-does-car-insurance-
cost/)

~~~
kahnpro
This is going to depend a lot on which non-drivable city you choose. I thought
Seattle was particularly expensive?

I lived in Montreal and paid C$675 / month for a 1 bedroom apartment 5 minutes
from a metro station and another C$79 per month for monthly STM pass. Throw in
a few trips outside the city with a rental car and we're still under C$10k.

~~~
chroem-
Montreal seems to be an outlier according to

[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-does-
montr...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-does-montreal-
maintain-its-enviably-low-rents/article31285810/)

There are also much cheaper driveable cities (e.g. Knoxville, TN) and much
more expensive non-driveable cities (e.g. San Francisco, CA). Also, more
realistically, you would probably be commuting to the city center if you were
driving. Rent in the suburb of Florissant, MO is only $618 a month [1]. And
the average gas price in St. Louis is only $2.28 a gallon [2], and insurance
in Missouri costs an average of only $57 a month [3].

That brings the cost of housing down to $820 a month or $9.8k a year. I'm sure
you could get a cheaper and more reliable car as well.

[1] [https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-
trends/us/mo/fl...](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-
trends/us/mo/florissant-city/)

[2] [https://www.gasbuddy.com/USA/MO](https://www.gasbuddy.com/USA/MO)

[3] [https://www.thesimpledollar.com/how-much-does-car-
insurance-...](https://www.thesimpledollar.com/how-much-does-car-insurance-
cost/)

------
known
[https://www.iconbuild.com/new-story/](https://www.iconbuild.com/new-story/)
is building houses within $4000 - $10000 with 3D printing

------
NumberSix
The first figure, the bar chart based on the BLS Consumer Expenditure Survey
shows almost the same expenditures in Atlanta, Georgia and Los Angeles,
California, with somewhat higher overall expenditures in Atlanta and somewhat
lower housing expenditures relative to transportation in Atlanta.

However, Zillow gives a median home value of about $220,000 in Atlanta:
[https://www.zillow.com/atlanta-ga/home-
values/](https://www.zillow.com/atlanta-ga/home-values/)

Median list price per square foot is $219

Median home list price is $310,000

Zillow gives a median home value of about $663,000 in Los Angeles:
[https://www.zillow.com/los-angeles-ca/home-
values/](https://www.zillow.com/los-angeles-ca/home-values/)

Median list price per square foot is $478/sq foot in Los Angeles

Median list price of homes is $750,000

That is a radical difference in housing prices that does not seem to show up
in the figure in the article. Presumably salaries and budgets are
proportionately lower in Atlanta than Los Angeles.

Is this really an accurate and adequate explanation? I know people who have
moved from Atlanta where they could afford a house and had to downsize to a
smaller apartment in the San Francisco Bay Area which is somewhat more
expensive than Los Angeles, but in the same ballpark.

Is Los Angeles really more affordable than Atlanta?

[ADDED]

The US Census reports:

Fulton County, GA (Atlanta area)

Median Household Income (2012-16): $58,851

Per capita income for past 12 months (2012-16): $39,101

[https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/fultoncountygeo...](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/fultoncountygeorgia/PST045216)

Los Angeles County, CA

Median Household Income (2012-16): $57,952

Per capita income for past 12 months (2012-16): $29,301

[https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/losangelescount...](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/losangelescountycalifornia/PST045216)

Note that Fulton County, GA (Atlanta) has a _higher_ median household income
than Los Angeles County, and much lower median home prices according to
Zillow.

It is unclear what the consumer expenditure report is computing. It may be the
percentage of total expenditures NOT INCLUDING SAVINGS AND TAXES, rather than
gross income:

[https://www.bls.gov/opub/hom/cex/calculation.htm](https://www.bls.gov/opub/hom/cex/calculation.htm)

Hence people in Atlanta may be saving more but spending a similar percentage
of TOTAL EXPENDITURES to people in Los Angeles.

