
The cult of WeWork - sytelus
https://www.propertyweek.com/insight/the-cult-of-wework/5098454.article
======
CharlesDodgson
Am I extremely out of the loop by just thinking that it's a hot desk company
that rolls up all the expenses of the office adds 10%-25%, throws in some
booze and lunches and says it's changing the world?

~~~
alexpetralia
Actually yes - this perspective would discount the immense value of brand,
design, narrative and belief. And before you think that that stuff is "not
real", consider that the reason you do anything is because of some dominant
narrative you may or may not have reflected on.

Narratives are what get people build rockets and go to the moon, or build them
and go to war instead.

~~~
Soundest
Whilst that's true, narratives at some point do have to meet reality. If
rental prices drop by 10%, it doesn't matter what you believe, WeWork will be
underwater.

~~~
hcknwscommenter
Wework is underwater. Have you seen their bond offerings? They will default.

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whitepoplar
Can anyone recommend a "coworking space" [0] for people who don't like
coworking spaces? I like to work on my own independent projects, preferably at
a place that isn't my apartment, but I just can't stand WeWork-style coworking
spaces, which I find to be a mix of equal parts motivational speech,
"networking," pretension, and pretend work. It just seems so fake to me. Am I
being closed-minded?

[0]: I live in NYC fwiw.

~~~
janstenpickle
> motivational speech, "networking," pretension, and pretend work

This.

I'm in the same boat, my company has some space in one in London. It's exactly
as you describe plus noisy. I really can't figure out what the people around
us do all day as they always seem to chatting. Fortunately we're able to work
from home, which I've taken to doing more recently, especially as the beer
tends to almost always be out by the time I finish work.

~~~
swingline-747
Regus rents office space, conf rooms and mail drops in nearly every major
city. It's like a gym membership more than an Uber meets a cult
[https://regus.com](https://regus.com)

For 9x5+, I recommend leasing/renting a desk or office privately because Regus
wants an arm/leg at their rates.

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scythe
I work at a WeWork office in the East Bay. My impression of WeWork events is
that a small minority attends them and a slightly larger minority goes just
long enough to swipe some free food (I would _never_ ). My main complaints are
that the office is noisy and people seem to think it's acceptable to eat lunch
in the shared workspace, also the keycards are terrible and usually require
3-4 attempts to open any door. As for a cult-like atmosphere, I haven't
noticed anything like that, but then again I don't work for WeWork.

But the bright side about the WeWork office? On any given day, 80% of the
desks are empty. I certainly can't complain about _that_!

~~~
steveeq1
I don't get it, what's wrong with eating in a shared workspace? I don't work
in one, but it seems like a "normal" thing to do.

~~~
rleigh
It's beyond antisocial. Being forced to smell and see food, and watch people
eat can be disgusting. Some food is obviously worse than others. Deliberately
inflicting it on an entire office is not-so-subtly telling everyone else that
their eating at their desk, rather than use any provided kitchen or dining
facilities, is more important to them than their consideration of every other
person in the place.

It might be "normal" in some places, but those are places I would find
detestable. It only takes one person to make the rest of an open plan office
feel nauseous.

If a person can't find 30 or even 15 minutes to leave their desk to eat their
lunch, then there's something seriously wrong with their work culture. It's
not like they are going to be actually "working" while stuffing food into
their faces. They should take the time to switch off for a few minutes for
their own physical and mental health, and the consideration of others.

~~~
jpindar
You'd get more sympathy without the "its for their own good" part.

~~~
rleigh
Why? The point about it being antisocial and inconsiderate stands on its own.

The point about it being for their own good is separate, but still valid. Too
many people end up with long term health problems from sedentary jobs, and a
small amount of physical and social activity at lunch is all some people get.
Missing that out can be quite detrimental in the long run, from depression,
lack of motivation and migranes to bad circulation and consequent RSI problems
and other health problems.

I've suffered from some of the above even with not eating at my desk and
taking breaks. Some of the people I've known who basically didn't move for 9+
hours a day had some horrific health and mental problems, and because people
often minimise the dangers I'm deliberately bringing them up. They can creep
up slowly over the course of years, which makes them insidious and
underestimated. Being "so busy" you rationalise eating at your desk is
symptomatic of a more general lack of care which needs sorting out.

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tropdrop
From my own brief membership at WeWork - can confirm about the cult feeling.
Every member of the "WeWork [support] Team" had this airhead quality about
them that assured one there wasn't calculation (or anything of depth, really)
going on under her/his fanatically happy veneer.

I'm happy I read this article, because I thought I was being judgmental in
thinking none were too bright.

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nikanj
WeWork seems to really attract the "playing startup" crowd. Lots of
networking, craft beers, office puppies, the whole nine yards.

Incidentally, the hectic foosball, random barking and other sounds of great
enthusiasm make it damn near impossible to actually do any deep work there.

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scrumper
I attended a similar industry event in 2006 called HedgeStock[1], for hedge
funds and the various remora fish that feed off them. It was a very strange
and quite unpleasant experience. Most of the attendees' firms were severely
damaged if not destroyed in 2008.

This seems similar.

Pride does seem to come before a fall.

[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5059232.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5059232.stm)

~~~
jstandard
This brings me back. While I didn't attend HedgeStock, I used to post on the
Albourne Village forums of the "conference" organizer. They had a points
system which I found a way to game, accumulating enough points to buy a Hedge
Stock calendar. "strange" and "unpleasant" were thoughts that ran through mine
and my coworkers heads as we paged through the calendar.

For WeWork the vegan, hippy vibe seems part of their culture. I had a harder
time reconciling that type of atmosphere applied to the investment management
industry.

~~~
scrumper
Ah yes, Albourne Village. I vaguely remember their website having an actual
village metaphor for navigation - I guess it was just close enough to the '90s
:)

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np_tedious
I know a few people at the NYC office and have observed some of this, but I'm
not sure if that muchworse than other "startups". My own (far smaller, about
$500m / 400 people) employer certainly has a bit of groupthink itself.

If the one correcting comment on the article

> __Pescatarian not Vegan. Wework still have dairy, eggs and fish allowed at
> their events.

is true, I'm not sure how much i can trust the rest of it.

~~~
rbinv
Should have gone pesca-pescatarian.

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subjectHarold
Believe it or not, the last tech bubble had a company doing exactly the same
thing. They were called Regus, they ended up in bankruptcy and sold off their
US division to avoid shutting down entirely. They are still running, they are
significantly larger than WeWork (they have offices everywhere from New York
to Mongolia)...somehow they are only 10% as valuable. Seems legit...

And the CEO of Regus is still a bit crazy about tech btw. They actually have
an R&D arm that is trying to build self-driving office cars...or something. I
never worked it out.

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Soundest
Many months ago I listened to a podcast about WeWork that summarised the
problem as: renting office space is a very traditional business. It's
demonstrably true that the cost of these rental spaces is cyclical with the
business cycle, and companies like WeWork are basically taking on long term
leases at the height of the boom. These leases are 10-15 years, and
realistically the value of those spaces are going to dip at some point over
that time, at which point the business goes bankrupt because it's massively
leveraged.

Everything I've seen about WeWork indicates that this is exactly right
-they've got a very traditional, poor business strategy, alongside full on
insanity scale silicon valley optimism. Does anyone know why WeWork is valued
at close to 10x competitor Regus?

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anon08142018
Sounds like just a sampling bias. The kind of people with the time and desire
to go to this festival are probably the kind of people to "drink the kool
aid". They are also smart enough to know not to trash their company while
being interviewed by a stranger.

If I was at a company sponsored event I would of course praise our glorious
corporation to some stranger, but its not like I actually believe the hype, I
just like getting paid.

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theriddlr
The Gwyneth Paltrow of coworking.

~~~
gdulli
When Paltrow was referenced in the article I was thinking, this is one of
those touches that in fiction would stand out as too contrived or on the nose.

I wonder if there will be a day when WeWork "consciously unincorporates."

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TheSpiceIsLife
Oh my, are these people going to have a "Well, that was embarrassing" moment
later.

Then:

 _A big part of being a woman is to help men [like Adam] manifest their
calling in life.”_

Aaaaaaaand nope.

~~~
Spivak
Reminds me of a quote from The Bell Jar which will probably make you just as
uncomfortable as Esther.

> "What a man is is an arrow into the future and what a woman is is the place
> the arrow shoots off from."

There's no shame in wanting to play a support class but don't pressure others
into it.

~~~
to_bpr
There's no shame in wanting to differ from the status quo maintained since
time immemorial, but don't pressure others into it.

Valid?

~~~
Spivak
I don't think so, at least not completely. The message should be to treat
others as individuals and not impose societal expectations on others.

Don't assume that the default or expected role for a woman is to be supporting
and passive. And don't look down on a woman who still wants to assume that
role.

------
CobrastanJorji
"There are 150 million orphans in the world, but we want to solve this problem
and give them a new family: the WeWork family."

...what?

Oh, I see, it's because WeWork is launching a private elementary school for
budding entrepreneurs.

...what?

------
rland
This reminded me of another article I read about this company:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-27/wework-
ac...](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-27/wework-accounts-for-
consciousness) Their value is predicated entirely on the perception. Select
quote from the CEO:

>"WeWork isn’t really a real estate company. It’s a state of consciousness, he
argues, a generation of interconnected emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs."

Riiiiiiight.

------
tonyedgecombe
I'm not surprised the property industry dislikes WeWork, WeWork's success is a
reflection of how poorly that industry serves it's customers.

~~~
rchaud
The "property industry" is doing just fine seeing as how they are the ones
selling top-shelf commercial leases in bulk to WeWork.

"Success" for these types of companies is similar to their tedious "we can
change the world" mantra in that neither have any basis in reality. They have
racked up a $723 million loss and are on the hook for $4b in new spending, and
yet they are a 'decacorn'.

They are propped up through investment capital alone. No wonder they have to
roll out these absurd claims of expanding into education, daycare and town-
building.

------
sonnyblarney
I lose so much respect for people like this.

I don't want to offend Americans, but this is mostly an American thing and
it's not just corporate: it's politics, religion, NGOs, entertainment, news -
everywhere. (America literally invents it's own religions!)

The scariest part is when you meet true believers, those not just 'playing the
game' but are really on the koolaid.

I believe this is because in America, people don't have quite as much of a
cultural foundation to buy into, or rather, the local culture might be sparse,
or unappealing. In non-American Western cultures and certainly Japan - there
are establishment role models for people to look up to, across the spectrum in
business, politics, nobility, etc. and there are tons of accepted cultural
norms in sports, the arts, culture, cuisine etc.. There are more 'established
ways' about everything from office culture, to manners, to politics, to
religion. It's as though there are fewer 'seekers' perhaps because people are
more grounded in their identities. Paradoxically this leaves less room for
true change to happen because, in a way innovation often comes about when
there's a little bit of kool-aid in the mix.

You can see this with Nike's recent commercialization ostensible social
justice movements, or even with some of Steve Job's old ads. The one with
Gahndi in it ... 'memba that? So funny.

I wish De Tocqueville were still alive to give us an updated view on things.

~~~
sctb
Handwave-y nationalistic generalizations rarely lead to thoughtful discussion
so we'd appreciate it if you would please not post them.

~~~
sonnyblarney
The article specifically concerns 'cultish behaviour' in a uniquely American
firm, and the author is specifically speaking from the perspective of a 'non
American'.

My comment reflects observations I've made having living in many places around
the world, speaking several languages immersing myself several different
cultures and I think they speak directly to the nature of the article, more so
than most of the comments on this thread which are a smidge colloquial side by
HN standards.

Also this isn't an issue of 'nationalism', it's about culture, ironically
those are two subjects North Americans tend to conflate.

