
Less than 6 hours of sleep a night linked to increased risk of early death - open-source-ux
https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/less-6-hours-sleep-night-linked-increased-risk-early-death/
======
abledon
""There are several limitations to this study. In particular, the participants
only had their sleep measured _once and in an artificial setting_, which may
not have been representative of their sleep patterns over time. The
researchers did not get the same results when they looked at how long
participants said they usually slept.""

How is this even treated as a serious study?

~~~
quickthrower2
(Edited, see replies)

Also "However, various health and lifestyle factors could be playing a role in
the links they identified."

I imagine that if someone is poor (on average) they'd get less sleep due to
living in noisier areas, working longer hours and so on. I also imagine being
poor would decrease life expectancy on average.

And another one I thought of ...

1990-2017 is not a long time. Older people (say >50) tend to sleep fewer
hours. Older people are much more likely to die in a 30 year period than
younger people (<30), so there is that. I wonder if that was taken into
account.

~~~
bad_good_guy
Read the article. It is the NHS debunking the research. Don't jump to
conclusions from headlines.

~~~
quickthrower2
Sorry, I read the article but on less than enough sleep (ironically) so I
missed the debunking aspect. So I will edit the post above.

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bad_good_guy
It's important to note that this article is the NHS inspecting and mostly
showing the weaknesses of the research, due to it having been popularised in
Mail Online. This is something that the NHS do frequently in order to reduce
misinformation spread by the media on medicines

~~~
bearcobra
I wish more government agencies provided write ups like this that are easy to
understand. Given the lack of trust that exists in so many parts of society,
it's great to see them attempt to provide a fair minded review of the research
while also adding important context for the public.

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lukifer
I struggle with this problem, and am currently striving to make 6-7
hours/night non-negotiable, both for higher day-to-day functioning, and longer
lifespan.

One thing I'm curious about: if one views lifespan as a function of total
waking hours, rather than age at death, is there a "sweet spot" where one
breaks even, or even comes out ahead? Against an 8-hour baseline, perhaps 5
hours per night shortens lifespan by more than (3 hours * 365 days * $n
years), but maybe at 7 hours per night, the reduction in average lifespan is
compensated by the extra hour every day? (That doesn't mean it's desirable, in
terms of QoL at retirement, living to see grandkids, etc.; just curious.)

~~~
kraftman
How do you factor in also spending every day feeling tired?

~~~
rrival
Getting ~5h for awhile now. Coffee ftw.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
I could pull that off in my early twenties while studying and working full
time and still have energy for other activities.

Now at 30, if I get less than 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep a few days in a
row, I'm a zombie and I feel the negative effect in all my activities: brain
fog at work, depressed, no lust for social gatherings, sports or sex.

------
Mister_X
Life long Porphyria sufferer here, a hallmark symptom is Insomnia.

I've lived on 6 or less hours of sleep all my life, the only time I sleep
longer is during a bad porphyria "attack", then it's like 19 hours at a time,
but that's only several times a year.

Subsequently, my career choices accommodated it, I became an entrepreneur so I
could set my own hours (like after Noon), and a 40 year career doing late
night broadcast radio.

I've seen these "studies" so many times, all I can do is Laugh, oh, and keep
on Living this way, and I've made it to 65, and still going, so hooey on those
"studies".

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tick_tock_tick
The ability to get a full nights sleep is often related to socioeconomic
status. I wonder how much of this is purely sleep vs stress.

~~~
yellowapple
And likewise, other factors that can be associated with a short lifespan
(hunger, disease, violence, etc.) also tend to disrupt sleep.

~~~
jwilliams
Yup. It's a pretty strong confound in this interpretations. You could easily
flip the Mail Online headline to "People with health issues often sleep
poorly".

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reaperducer
What if getting six hours a sleep a night means you lose 3 years off of your
life, but gain 10 years of awake time? Then it's not so bad.

~~~
lsllc
Interesting. Maybe we all get a more or less set number of waking hours to
live? (disease not withstanding). Maybe 95 year olds just sleep a lot and
those who die early do so because they burned up their waking hours sooner!

I think I read that mammals more or less get the same number of heartbeats in
a lifetime -- so Hummingbirds don't last so long but Elephants live a long
time (due to slower heart rate vs very high heart rate for a Hummingbird). I
suppose sleeping more might correlate to a lower average heart rate (and thus
a longer life).

~~~
tzs
> I think I read that mammals more or less get the same number of heartbeats
> in a lifetime

[http://robdunnlab.com/projects/beats-per-
life/](http://robdunnlab.com/projects/beats-per-life/)

------
michannne
>Participants had their sleep monitored during a single night in a sleep
laboratory during the 1990s

I'm not sure then what I'm supposed to take away from that study (Mail, not
NHS).

Edit: I also want to include that reducing nicotine was one very large factor
in me getting a better night's sleep. I found that due to constant smoking, my
blood pressure was basically locked at a high rate for extended periods of
time, which eventually caused my heart to palpitate during some nights.
Reducing caffeine and lowering my smoking frequency made those issues vanish,
and overrall, was a healthy choice to make regardless.

------
jason_slack
It always surprises me when people tell me they slept 8+ and are still tired.
My wife gets 9-10 hours but wakes up refreshed. I, since before age 5 always
get 4.5 to 5 hours. These last few months I’m down to 3.5-4.25 hours. I wish I
knew why the change and what made my body different than others.

Edit: clarifications

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cryptozeus
This will come off as depressing thought but why so much focus on early death
vs later death. What about how we leaved the life we leaved. It can be six
hours of sleep but overall if the life is exciting and have enough money to
support the family then how does it matter how late you die ?

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negamax
This is such a conjecture with so many data points missing. I was sleeping 8
or so hours a per night and was miserable health wise. Made (major) eating and
movement changes. I am sleeping less but in so much better health! I would
say, I was on my way to an early death earlier.

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sys_64738
My grandmother only slept for 3 hours a night for most of her life before she
died. She was 92.

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mindfulplay
This is a ridiculously clickbait and incorrect title. I would expect this from
CNBC or CNN or the Daily Mail. Not HN.

The participants were literally examined using a _single night 's_ sleep
pattern. This is dangerous "science".

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sleepophile
Got The Pod from Eight Sleep recently and I’m loving it. Consistently feeling
more refreshed in the morning.

Anybody who even remotely cares about sleep fitness should try one out.

------
loeg
It'd be a lot more honest to say "correlated" instead of "linked" in science
journalism headlines.

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derefr
From: [https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/06/24/you-need-more-
confound...](https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/06/24/you-need-more-confounders/)

> The natural explanation was that [...] People who have lots of problems in
> their lives are more stressed. Stress makes it harder to sleep at night.
> People who can’t sleep at night get sleeping pills. Therefore, sleeping pill
> users have more problems, for every kind of problem you can think of. When
> problems get bad enough, they kill you. This is why sleeping pill users are
> more likely to die of everything.

Obviously, you can also wind that one step back and find that "people who
don't sleep well" _also_ have more problems, for every kind of problem you can
think of.

~~~
rmilejczz
While that passage is interesting in how it links to the article in OP, I find
the article you shared to be significantly more interesting. I’ve always heard
convincing links between poor sleep and poor health but I never knew there was
such a controversial link between hypnotics and increased mortality, that’s a
bit terrifying

~~~
CommieBobDole
However, the gist of the article is that probably most of the earlier studies
aren't adjusting for enough factors, and when someone did, the links went
away.

Basically, if your study says that taking Ambien doubles your risk of cancer,
bubonic plague, dying in a plane crash (where you are not the pilot) and being
shot by snipers, the study is probably wrong. Given that it's a drug taken for
sleep difficulties, and the number of possible things that can cause sleep
difficulties (near the top of the list: stress, from literally innumerable
sources), and the fact that sleep difficulties take a medical toll, as well as
do many of the primary, secondary, and tertiary causes of sleep difficulties,
it's very hard to account for that in a study.

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mr_sturd
> Conclusion

> ...

> However, its limitations mean that its findings are not conclusive.

