
Ask HN: Considering relocation to Europe, options for recruiters/job hunting? - jmspring
Due to life circumstances, there is an interesting option for my wife and I to consider moving to Europe.  The benefit, I am married to an EU National (she has dual citizenship -- so generally a work permit in the EU won't be a problem for me) who moved here for me.  Sometimes it is time to reciprocate.&#60;p&#62;We are looking at Central Europe (Germany/Switzerland/Austria/France).&#60;p&#62;She's in tech, more on the project/program management side and has her sources (but even some of those are dated).  We both work for companies where we could probably due intra-company transfers, but are also open to other avenues.&#60;p&#62;Has anyone originally based in the US had recent experience with finding resources for finding positions in Europe?  Or anyone in Europe have suggestions for finding opportunities?&#60;p&#62;Historically, the usual process has been finding a good recruiting firm (often based in the UK).&#60;p&#62;I know some of the startup avenues to explore.&#60;p&#62;Overall, though I'd love to hear what people can suggest about other options.
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mtoddh
In a past blog entry ([http://blog.neekanee.com/2012/11/working-overseas-
finding-jo...](http://blog.neekanee.com/2012/11/working-overseas-finding-job-
abroad.html)), I wrote about two companies that hire internationally: Secunia
and Booking.com. There's also a couple of companies in Berlin that state in
their job postings their willingness to sponsor work permits (even for non-EU
citizens)- <http://www.neekanee.com/jobs-in-berlin-de?q=permit>

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zinssmeister
My wife and I are sharing a similar setup and often find ourselves
contemplating a move to Europe (currently we are based in SF). First one
should nail down a target city. We found Berlin to be the easiest market:
cheap rent, many tech startups that hire english speakers. If I had to pick a
second location I'd go with London or Frankfurt. To find work in Berlin you
can tab into the startup scene, there are some blogs that cover job listings
(e.g. <http://berlinstartupjobs.com/>) or if you want something more
traditional: monster.de. London has an interesting craigslist competitor
called: gumtree.com that has some interesting job posts. And of course, like
Berlin they also have curated startup job listings (e.g.
<http://workinstartups.com/>). To connected to recruiters (mostly in the UK
like you said) I found linkedin and even more so xing.com to be a good
destination.

~~~
zobzu
id go to berlin instead just because its so much cheaper. london is extremely
expensive, and so is frankfurt - yet it has many startups. (in fact most other
cities that will be mentionned are much more expensive than berlin).

Then again, SF is in the US, stuff cost a lot less except for housing, and you
don't have the possible euro crash looking at you every week (oh yeah i know,
you've the USD issues, but they aren't looking _as_ bad these days)

~~~
zinssmeister
Frankfurt is still relatively cheap compared to London. But you are right, if
you want cheap rent then Berlin is unbeatable. Also probably has a better
startup scene than London at this point. (if that's what you are looking for)

~~~
Markinhos
maybe some years ago Berlin was much cheaper, but rents are getting more
expensive everyday. Still cheaper than London though.

~~~
zinssmeister
how much is rent running these days for a 2 bedroom (3 ZKB)?

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Markinhos
I'd say 700€-100€. Here you can find some examples [http://www.wg-
gesucht.de/en/wohnungen-in-Berlin.8.2.0.0.html...](http://www.wg-
gesucht.de/en/wohnungen-in-
Berlin.8.2.0.0.html?filter=bb82c942bfed6d30db8c98b7164ad5b3cb6e9ce6)

~~~
zobzu
i don't really find that anything close to expensive btw :)

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lifeisstillgood
What languages do you or your wife speak? Which country is she a national of
and are you goin to locate there?

Does she have family ties back there ? Are they strong? Do you two have kids
yet? Are they school age? Does your wife want to move to her home country to
raise them at some point?

Firstly, if any recruiter does not ask you the above put the phone down.

Secondly those questions you really need to be able to answer long before you
fly

And finally, job search through open job positions is seen as the generally
last resort

My honest suggestion:

1\. Decide which country 2\. Start a blog (AnAmericanSysAdminInBerlin) about
what you intend to do 3\. Ping a number of startup and established companies
(follow them in twitter don't get spammy) and be clear you are an expert in
xxx 4\. Prove it by working remotely on short term gigs

Basically get a short term gig or two remotely - they may become jobs, they
may be one a viable in one stream, at least you will learn the ropes of a
country (oh look a cron tab commented in German - I wonder which one deletes
the database)

~~~
zaidf
_1\. Decide which country 2. Start a blog (AnAmericanSysAdminInBerlin) about
what you intend to do 3. Ping a number of startup and established companies
(follow them in twitter don't get spammy) and be clear you are an expert in
xxx 4. Prove it by working remotely on short term gigs_

This seems like a rather convoluted way of finding a job. May be what you mean
is find an effective way to communicate that you have xxx skills and find
companies that may be in need of it? Starting a blog may be one way but I have
my doubts if its the optimal thing in his case.

Also, I'd actually say that OP might as well begin by applying for published
jobs. You will get some baseline idea about the market or culture(do
recruiters in blah region even reply? what are the responses like? etc.)

~~~
lifeisstillgood
If you apply for jobs, you might get one and take months to discover the bad

If you apply for small projects, you might get several and Discover good bad
and ugly much quicker

Honestly a blog is a resume these days.

~~~
zaidf
_If you apply for jobs, you might get one and take months to discover the bad_

That has little to do with finding a published job. He could accept the first
job via a referral and take months to discover its bad, for example.

The small projects idea is a good one. I am sure there are folks on HN from
Europe that may have projects for him. The potential trap with small-project
route is that a company with small projects may not necessarily have a
permanent position.

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DividesByZero
Having moved to Berlin from Australia a little while ago, I can say many
people at startups are hiring - the trick is to plug into the community in
person and ask around. If you have useful technical/web dev skills, that's a
big plus.

From my experience attempting to get a transfer from BigCo, most BigCo. type
companies require German fluency, even in purely technical positions.

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geff82
Ask Eurostaff. I work with them as a freelancer. They are quick, very
friendly, visit you at the place you are actually working and pay on the 28th
day of a 30-day payment term. I love them for their professionalism. They have
positions all over Europe with their headquarter in London, freelance and
regular jobs.

~~~
manveru
Are you serious? Just a quick search on their website shows exactly 3 jobs
across all of Europe in the technology sector, and that's it?

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joonix
I think you should apply for permanent residency first. Once you get it start
applying, or even better, go to your target city and rent short term housing
and try to find something fast. Being local always helps, and you definitely
want to advertise that you have a work permit already.

~~~
jmspring
Given my wife is a German national and we are married, the whole work permit
process is easier. It does require registering with the local municipality and
some paperwork, but nothing near other situations.

As I mentioned, our situation would likely allow for mutually transferring to
the EU under our current employers. That said, in both cases you are away from
the mothership and the options are a little less appealing.

The main point of the question really is trying to understand how one
approaches the job market in the EU. My wife's experience is slightly dated
from the last time she looked.

Thanks all for the input.

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warpech
I believe the best city for IT work in Central Europe is Munich. It leads the
ranks of best cities to live in Germany, and the unemployment rate is below
5%. It is quite easy to get a decent, well paid job in one of the
multinational companies that are operating here.

~~~
warpech
More info on Munich job market here:
<http://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Jobs_in_Munich>

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fmsf
You should take a look at monster.com. In Luxembourg it is very active
(monster.lu). If you are moving to Europe get ready to learn new languages,
although english is often accepted for technical jobs, if you go consulting
knowing the local language is often mandatory. In Luxembourg most ppl speak 3
or 4 languages fluently (English, French, German, other)

Most companies are very multi cultural, and force english as main language if
they have workers that don't speak the official language, but be carefull as
not knowing the local language might affect your daily routine outside of the
job.

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pyre
You can check out: <http://www.overseas-exile.com/> by "ovid" of Perl fame. He
used to (or still does?) work for Booking.com, which is based in Amsterdam[1].
He was pimping it pretty hard during the Perl Lightning Talks at OSCON2011. I
got the impression that they were willing to sponsor people internationally
(but possibly within reason).

[1]: <http://www.booking.com/jobs.html?st=top>

(FYI: HN wraps blocks of text separated by blank lines in <p></p> tags)

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dc2447
There is a massive demand for talent in all the cities mentioned in the
thread. Places like Amsterdam and Berlin have a pretty signifant skills gap. I
tend to see people who would perhaps struggle to get gigs in London get
relatively senior positions elsewhere.

As for London being expensive to live, that really depends on where you live,
there are some very affordable areas if you are willing to commute and the
other costs of living (bar travel) seem comprable in my experience.

Good luck

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charroch
If you can get a visa to Switzerland then the salaries are higher and qol way
higher. Life is boring thought. For some excitement I would choose Berlin. For
some culture and je ne sais quoi paris. Stockholm can be considered as well.
Going Mediterranean style then tell aviv.

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penguat
I worked for a company who do big enterprise sorts of things, who seem pretty
good as agents go, and understand how to create a path from contract to
permanent, if you want to: FDM.

Emphasis on "big enterprise" however.

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devb0x
Even for me, as a South African considering my options overseas, the comments
were extremely useful.

Remote work sounds like a good idea. I plan on trying that out in the new year
before committing to immigration.

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contingencies
Work remotely. If your (or anyone else reading this') skillset includes the
sysadmin end of the spectrum, reply with contact details and I just might have
something for you - immediately.

~~~
rudasn
Not for me but for a friend who has 2 years experience in networking and
system maintenance, likes to gets his hands dirty, and really enjoys learning
new things (and has the resulting paper work to show for it).

My email is in my profile if you are interested.

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notauser
Does anyone have any similar advice for relocating to Asia?

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davyjones
What is your nationality and which country are you aiming for?

Depending on your nationality, you might not need to a visa. Just board a
plane and show up.

Asia is pretty big...and needless to say, the laws change from country to
country. So, you need to decide the country first.

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kyro
If anyone can answer, I'd like to know how active the startup scene in London
is. I've always considered moving there later on down the road.

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drstewart
Any companies hiring RoR devs? I'm a US/EU citizen (live in SF). London or
Berlin preferred, but open to anywhere in Europe.

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ig1
Identify the companies you want to work for and pitch them.

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festivus
Like you would a tent?

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pyre
No. Just schedule a presentation with them, and use your PowerPoint skills
(and silver tongue) to convince them to hire you.

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eps
What's your skillset/professional profile?

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bmmayer1
What do you do?

