
Moving On - jhonovich
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Forward/Moving-On/ba-p/808862
======
jwise0
It's a shame that this had to go the way it did. If you read Rakesh's Twitter
recently, it's pretty clear that something has gone dramatically and
completely wrong -- and that is something that David alludes to in his blog
post.

Obviously there can be no real clinical diagnosis of anything at all from a
tweet stream, but what he's been posting really does scream "psychotic break"
or "manic episode"; when people say things in those kinds of states, they
might not be grounded on any real beliefs of theirs at all.

In an ideal world, it would be nice if the next thing that happened to him was
for him to be placed on medical leave, surrounded by a community that supports
his recovery; upon his return, a statement like "I'd lost my mind briefly, and
obviously didn't mean anything that I said" could patch things up. This might
not be that world today: as a society, we're remarkably bad at recognizing
mental illness when it comes along, and we're not so good at dealing with it
even when we figure it out.

So, PayPal did what it had to. A public firing is never a pretty thing, and
maybe that was a little excessive, but I can certainly see where it comes
from. Either way, I hope that this guy gets the help he needs -- and
preferably sooner, rather than later.

~~~
canadev
Well said.

Something like this happened to me once. I am a pretty good dev and I write
solid code. But I'd been doing a lot of drugs and my mental health was way off
base and I started talking to my boss about how I was the best programmer in
the company and how he wasn't paying me enough and some other silly shit.
Eventually I managed to convince him to convert me to a contractor, so I was
working at the same job, without benefits, for a whopping $5K extra a year (if
I worked 40/hrs a week for 48 weeks).

He didn't let me go as full-time before making sure that I had access to
mental health resources -- his biggest concern was that I get the help I
needed, but I assured him that living in Canada (I worked remotely) I had
access to mental health care if I needed it. Of course I was certain that I
did not need it.

Eventually, things came to a head, and I experienced psychosis to the point
where I called the cops and told them someone was spying on me and they
certified me and took me away to a psych ward against my wishes.

Things have changed a lot since then and I am much healthier and haven't used
any non-prescription drugs (including alcohol) for about a year and a half
(I'm lying, I have tried and failed to quit cigarette smoking a few times).
The whole me getting taken away incident was about 3 years ago and neither of
us work for that company any longer. But I've made amends for the grief I
caused him (really, my description above just scratched the surface), and we
are on good terms. Today I consider him a friend.

He was the first person who told me to get help. Honestly, that means so much
to me.

If anybody wants any more context or someone to talk to about substance abuse
problems or mental health issues, I am definitely no professional, but I have
personal experience and would be happy to let you know how things went for me
and how I got my life back together. My psychiatrist doesn't think it's
necessary to see me anymore (I'm a bit torn on that one) and jokes that they
should hire me because I've learned and followed their program so well. But a
big hint for the main thing behind my success (first suggested to me by my
psychiatrist, in fact): To paraphrase Craig Ferguson, "You can find us at the
beginning of the phonebook." (I know a lot of people can't get over the
"god"/"higher power" thing. Neither can I. But I still followed the
instructions and they worked for me. I think it's akin to Cognitive Behavioral
Therapy and Mindfulness Meditation.)

------
silverlight
Reading his current Twitter feed, this reminds me of something a friend of
mine went through several years ago. We weren't in very good contact at the
time and he told me about it later, but the way his psychiatrist described it
to him it was a mental break that resulted in him acting like some sort of
billionaire business tycoon, only without any actual money. E.g. making
ridiculously bold claims, offering people massive job opportunities when there
is actually no money to pay for them, etc. During this time he sent me a
Facebook message telling me to get on the next plane to London because he was
assembling a team to create a new business and offered me 10 times my salary
at that time. Obviously I declined and asked if he was okay, at which point he
simply ignored me and continued on that path. Eventually he got help.

Anyway, might not be the same thing, and I don't know what the "official" name
for it is, but this stream of tweets definitely sounds exactly like what my
friend was saying at the time.

~~~
fiatmoney
The name is mania. It's associated with manic-depressive disorder.

~~~
smartician
Interestingly, there's a documented link between mania and sleep deprivation.
And he mentions his lack of sleep several times on his twitter.

------
TamDenholm
Its actually kind of nice reading a blog post like this written by a human
clearly insulted by the incident and standing up for their company, rather
than a carefully crafted statement output by HR.

~~~
tdicola
Yeah I wish most announcements from big companies were this frank and to the
point. Sad that there have to be these crazy circumstances to bring this
about.

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lmg643
The guy was in New Orleans for jazz fest. One of the biggest parties there
other than mardi gras. My first assumption is that he was totally drunk and
can't handle his liquor well. Then I think, perhaps he was on something
crazier, like bath salts. If either were the case, and you want to keep your
job, take a page out of the celebrity playbook, blame the substance, go to
rehab. Don't make statements trying to praise some colleagues and not others
you insulted. Moronic to say the least. Unless it is some strange plan to draw
attention to your next business. "Hi, I am a highly unstable individual with a
possible substance abuse problem. Want to join my team and/or fund me?"

------
fiatmoney
It's extremely rare for a company to call out a former executive like this. On
the other hand, it's extremely rare for an executive to go on a twitter
rampage whilst "tired and emotional".

Also, it's really interesting how many senior corporate executives,
politicians, etc. seem to be prone to manic-depressive episodes.

~~~
NamTaf
That probably has something to do with how hopped to the gills many are on
uppers in order to grind through constant productivity. Your standard 9-5
grunt probably doesn't have a crippling coke habit trying to work 18 hour days
7 days a week.

~~~
fiatmoney
That's interesting; I would think causality would go the other way. Many
people end up self-managing their mood via drugs / alcohol (including
depressants) even if they don't have jobs that require heightened energy. I
would think that self-medication is a better explanation for why so many, eg,
politicians have drinking problems, than that the booze is necessary for them
to be able to politick for 18 hours a day.

~~~
NamTaf
TBF I was applying the banking / Toronto mayor sitaution to a broader pool. I
don't have data to back it up.

I also specifically mentioned uppers e.g.: cocaine, rather than alcohol which
I agree with you isn't going to be used to work extensively (obviously).

------
danielweber
Context?

~~~
Mandatum
[https://twitter.com/rakeshlobster](https://twitter.com/rakeshlobster)

~~~
smartician
Wow. Nervous breakdown, live on Twitter.

~~~
ryan-allen
It looks more like a manic episode. He really needs help or this whole thing
could end very badly :(

~~~
danielweber
He stopped for just 3 hours overnight. I agree that his friends need to help
him, quickly.

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ar7hur
Kudos to David Marcus for this smart, no-bullshit reaction. We need more human
material and less PR shit from CEOs.

I understand that junior employees can sometimes go publicly against the
company they just left, but that's really not something you expect from
somebody who is supposed to be a seasoned, professional exec. Good luck for
the rest of your career, Rocky, you'll need a lot of that -- which CEO is the
world is willing to hire you again?

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ryan-allen
I think Rakesh is having a manic episode with possible psychotic delusions. He
needs help immediately.

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parasonic
so they turn it into a pathetic marketing coup now - honestly, who cares!?
well, I don't.

------
funkyy
I like how PayPal manager, manager of a company that blocks funds of thousands
legitimate businesses for no apparent reason for months just to earn some
money thanks to interest rates on those funds speaks about what's fair and
what's unethical - shame on you. Get your stuff together before pointing
fingers.

~~~
yuhong
Does PayPal really do that nowadays?

~~~
funkyy
[http://www.paypalsucks.com/](http://www.paypalsucks.com/)

Some stories are more recent...

~~~
yuhong
I mean deliberately doing so to make money on interest rates or similar.

