
Facebook halts ads that exclude racial and ethnic groups - tareqak
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/11/29/facebook-stop-allowing-advertisers-exclude-racial-and-ethnic-groups-targeting/905133001/
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dvdhnt
There is something odd about this that I do not understand.

Laws prohibit discrimination based on race, so the housing advertisements
obviously shouldn't be allowed to use race as a targeting attribute. However,
retail items that target ads by race don't seem crazy. For example, there are
hair care products only relevant to African Americans. Why would I, a
Caucasian, need to see those ads? I'm not going to buy it, thus it's a waste
for the advertiser.

Not showing some group an ad is not the equivalent of denying service, which
if that happened, would be illegal.

~~~
dragonwriter
> For example, there are hair care products only relevant to African
> Americans.

“Only relevant” is mostly untrue; there are hair care products whose marketing
focuses on a African-American customer base, often either because they are
designed for hair traits more common in (but _not_ exclusive too) populations
of subsaharan descent or because they are for fashions more popular with (but,
again, not exclusive to) the African-American community than other American
subcultures, but sometimes just as artificial market segmentation, with
similar products with alternative branding marketed to other groups.

~~~
dvdhnt
> there are hair care products whose marketing focuses on a African-American
> customer base

Sure, but those aren't the products I'm referencing. I'm specifically talking
about items such as types of brushes. Literally ONE non African American
person makes something not exclusive, which for the purpose of marketing
products, is besides the point. One of the first things you learn in
statistics is to ignore extreme outliers.

Additionally, discussing semantics gets us nowhere and misses the point of
what I'm saying. Pretending that all cultures are interested in all products
is a sham and we shouldn't force Facebook or anyone else to pretend otherwise,
except in protected cases.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Sure, but those aren't the products I'm referencing.

Yes, they are; your description is inaccurate.

> I'm specifically talking about items such as types of brushes

Yes, those are (mostly) in the first category I talk about, those wheels the
marketing focus is largely because they targeted hair features most common in,
but not exclusive to, the targeted race.

> Pretending that all cultures are interested in all products is a sham and we
> shouldn't force Facebook or anyone else to pretend otherwise, except in
> protected cases.

Race is a protected class in public accommodations in general, not just
housing. While that doesn't—either in housing or other accommodations—prohibit
racially _biased_ advertising such as choosing to advertise exclusively in a
publication with a well-known race-specific appeal, to the extent one can
argue housing anti-discrimination law is a bar to housing ads which are
exclusively targeted to (or which specifically are targeted to avoid)
individuals of a particular race, that would seem likely to raise issues under
public accommodation laws as well.

~~~
dvdhnt
> Yes, they are; your description is inaccurate.

Oh, okay. Good to know you're inside my head. No, I didn't copy and paste the
entirety of your quote because it didn't seem necessary.

You're dancing around my point: particular characteristics are so pronounced
in some groups, and less so in others, that it benefits an advertiser to
target those groups. It just so happens to be, in this case, that those groups
are categorized by race. The same would be true for the advertising of
homosexual erotica - you probably want to target your adverts to homosexuals
rather than heterosexuals, for example.

Then again, you've already ignored the fact that these types of filters for
adverts are in fact legal, preferring to encourage Facebook to both succumb to
the vocal minority and act as our morality police. Specifically, when you say,
"While that doesn't—either in housing or other accommodations—prohibit
racially biased advertising...".

> Race is a protected class in public accommodations in general, not just
> housing.

You mention "public accommodations" twice, including the quote above and a
reference to "public accommodation laws" at the end of your comment. Would you
mind sourcing the particular laws you are referring to? I ask because Title
II's definition of public accommodation is limited to "any inn, hotel, motel,
or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests".

~~~
dragonwriter
> I ask because Title II's definition of public accommodation is limited to
> "any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to
> transient guests".

No, Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 defines public accommodations
much more broadly, in 42 USC § 2000a(b) as:

\---[quote]---

1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to
transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which
contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually
occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;

(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or
other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the
premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the
premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;

(3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or
other place of exhibition or entertainment; and

(4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises
of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the
premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and
(B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment.

\---[end quote]---

States also have public accommodation laws (and sometimes also similar but
separate anti-discrimination laws, like New Jersey’s Credit and Business
Transactions law), which are often broader in application than Title II.

~~~
dvdhnt
Your comments oftens say so much while saying very little. Please, kindly
point out where in Titlte II or any other public accommodation law where
accommodation could be loosely interpreted as including the selection of
advertising categories we are actually discussing?

------
tareqak
Techmeme summary: _Jessica Guynn / USA Today: Facebook says it is temporarily
stopping advertisers from excluding racial or ethnic groups from ad targeting
while it studies how advertisers exclude groups_

