

Why I killed my standing desk - stuartmemo
http://blog.pickcrew.com/why-i-killed-my-standing-desk/

======
bstar77
I think there's some good information in this article, but the elephant in the
room is "why didn't he just use an adjustable standing/sitting desk?" You
can't make a transition to standing all day cold turkey, I'm shocked anyone
thinks they could.

When I stand at my desk, I'll do it until I feel uncomfortable/fatigued. When
I sit at my desk, I stand when my back and legs get tight. It's that simple.

~~~
dopamean
I haven't looked into it recently but last I checked those adjustable desks
were frightfully expensive.

~~~
m-i-l
The adjustable Ikea Bekant sit/stand desk is "only" about three times the
price of the non-adjustable Bekant desk. (I don't have one but have been
tempted.)

~~~
slantyyz
Three times the price of fixed legs, but compared to most other sit/stand
desks, it's relatively inexpensive.

I tried it at the store, and I was surprised at how smooth and fast the motor
was, especially given the price.

------
RyanMcGreal
Anecdote here: it took me around 3-4 weeks to get fully acclimatized to my
standing desk, a period during which I was often tired and sore. However, once
I got used to it, standing became a normal part of my day. Because I'm already
standing, I have an easier time walking away from my desk - to get a drink, go
to the bathroom, confer with a colleague, go for a walk, etc. - and I've also
been incorporating squats, calf raises and stretches into my daily movements.
Several months after going all-standing, I feel better than I have in years.
My posture is better, my back no longer aches, my knees have stopped hurting,
my mood is better and my productivity is as good as, or better than, it was
when I sat all day.

~~~
mdellabitta
I have to second this. I've had multiple runs at standing desks, and the only
time I've been able to hack it for full days is when I was already doing squat
exercises.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
Interesting point. I started doing squats because I was already standing, but
it didn't occur to me that I was able to stand because I was doing squats.

------
GreaterFool
Humans assume that standing, walking or running (or even sitting!) is
something that you just pick up along the way. It is not. Doing it right
requires practice and technique.

Couple of months ago I was in Bali and I saw local women weaving fabrics. They
would sit for hours with their legs straight on the ground and a perfectly
straight back, like a letter L; no back support of any kind (try it!). Bad
back? That's western problem. We sit in our "comfortable" chairs with "lumbar
support" and slowly decay.

When I started doing deadlifts I found the posture quite strange and the
motion felt very unnatural. Too many things too keep track of. But my trainer
would point out all my mistakes and I'd improve, bit by bit. After few months
the results are great.

Standing is in the same bucket. It is a physical activity. One shouldn't
assume it is something that humans are just supposed to be able to do right
without practice. Most certainly not after years of bad habits. If you don't
have the proper physique it's going to hurt. If your posture is bad it is
going to hurt. So figure out what are you doing wrong and fix it!

~~~
Dewie
> Humans assume that standing, walking or running (or even sitting!) is
> something that you just pick up along the way. It is not.

People are so presumptuous. What are they going to arrogantly assume next?
That they can breathe properly without proper training; that they can
socialize without a dating coach; that they can chew food properly without
getting digestive problems; that they can listen to their own intuition
without a consultation by a life coach?

~~~
mark_edward
Apparently a lot of people are breathing wrong. [0]

[0]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22135480](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22135480)

------
borgia
Of course you're going to get fatigued if you're not used to standing for long
periods of time. You're constantly engaging muscles that you let lie
comfortably for most of the day when you get into the office and sit or slouch
into your chair.

Of course it's going to take training, as building up any muscles does, and
it's going to be tough while you're doing it.

I'm glad to see others here saying they're happy with their standing desks.
It's something I've been really eager to try but haven't been able to for a
number of reasons yet.

Whatever the future is, I don't think it's sitting at 90 degrees at a small
desk for long periods of every day.

Personally I find it very hard to recline and get work done. I find it harder
to engage with what I'm doing, get drowsy more quickly, etc.

~~~
centizen
I use a sit-stand desk at work that allows me to switch between standing and
sitting at will. I couldn't imagine having to choose between either setup.
It's a little more expensive than a traditional desk but the flexibility that
it offers is worth it.

I've also found that a big factor in how much I stand (and enjoy standing) is
what I'm standing on. Comfortable shoes and a padded mat make the all the
difference and stop my legs from getting sore as quickly. At first, my
experiences were pretty similar to this authors, but I've since warmed up to
it a bit more.

------
collyw
"Even though I was fighting some pain, I thought it was good pain — like the
pain you get when you’re building muscle when you workout. It felt like I was
training my muscles for better posture and this was all part of the process."

Completely the wrong approach. Fighting chronically tense muscles with more
tension is not going to help anything, standing or sitting.

It worth noting that muscles can only pull. He should have been trying to
relax the tense muscles rather than trying to counter with more tense muscles.
This is not easy though. Have a look into the Alexander Technique or
Feldenkrais Method, or the book Somatics by Thomas Hanna for some different
approaches to re-educate your sense of kinesthesia.

[http://www.amazon.com/Somatics-Reawakening-Control-
Movement-...](http://www.amazon.com/Somatics-Reawakening-Control-Movement-
Flexibility/dp/0738209570)

These are popular with dancers, who generally move with a lot more grace and
less effort than the average computer geek.

------
dugmartin
I built a standing desk and a sitting desk at the same time when I moved into
"downtown" office from my home office. For a year I had them in an "L" and
didn't really use the standing desk as much as I thought because like the
author I would get sore/tired very quickly and the nice chair was always a
couple of feet away.

About 2 months ago I decided to reorganize my office and I put the sitting
desk across the office looking at a wall and the standing desk by a nice
window view. With that little bit of change I started using the standing desk
more and more and now I use it all day.

One important note: I've also been taking a break every 1.5 hours (I have
several alarms set on my phone) to do some hamstring stretches on the floor. I
bought some cheap interlocking foam flooring that I sit on for stretching. On
the days I ignore the reminders to stretch I do start getting a tense back by
the mid/end of the day. Maybe I should add some squats...

------
athenot
When I built my standup desk, I paired it with an elevated chair that
resembles a saddle for horseback-riding[1]. The hip position is adjustable and
_IF_ the monitors are at the right height, the back is straight even though
the chair has no back support.

With that setup, I could switch between sitting and standing, while keeping a
straight back.

[1] [http://www.wayfair.com/Office-Star-Products-Height-
Adjustabl...](http://www.wayfair.com/Office-Star-Products-Height-Adjustable-
Backless-Stool-with-Saddle-Seat-ST205-OT1111.html)

------
PapaMufflon
For me, the key was to alternate the standing with the sitting phase. Someone
suggested to sit for one hour, then stand for twenty minutes. After that, walk
around (get a coffee, talk to a colleague, go to the bathroom). This was so
good for me that I wrote a little app to remind me doing it on time:
[http://papamufflon.github.io/StandUpTimer/](http://papamufflon.github.io/StandUpTimer/)
Feel free to use it, it's gratis.

------
mdisraeli
If you are finding it difficult to stand for extended periods, consider
getting your feet checked, and if you have already, using your prescribed
orthotics (insoles/shoes/other supports) whilst standing.

When I come home, I routinely take my outdoor shoes off. I spent most of my
time at home sitting at my desk, but last year I began to learn bass guitar. I
found that standing to play for less than an hour was enough to wipe me out
for the entire evening, with knock-on exhaustion until the next day.

I have pes cavovarus - a deformity of the feet characterised by high arches
and inward turned heels. When I finally got orthotics and placed them into my
outdoor shoes, walking suddenly became easier and instances of debilitating
cramp reduced in frequency and severity.

Following my experiences with playing my bass, I placed a spare pair of
orthotic insoles into my slippers. This was not something my medical team had
suggested previously. Suddenly I found it less exhausting to stand for
extended periods. The change was actually quite immediate and significant.

Flat arches are far more common than what I have, but I suspect the same
concept still applies - and orthotics for flat arches are far more widely
available to consumers!

------
gmays
I don't understand the attraction to non-adjustable standing desks. Standing
all day seems just as bad as sitting all day, especially if you start standing
all day after sitting for years. As long as you're relatively active (~3hrs of
exercise/wk) you're probably OK just standing an hour or two a day.

I opted for an adjustable standing desk that I love. After doing a lot of
research I ended up going with a brand called EvoDesk
([http://www.evodesk.com](http://www.evodesk.com)). Their parent company is
NextDesk, which has nice products, but cost more than I was willing to spend
for what I wanted.

I ended up getting the smallest desk they have (48"). With all of the options,
including the speakers it came out to around $1,000, which I consider
reasonable for a tool I use ~14hrs a day, ~everyday. Though, I ordered the
keyboard platform add-on, but didn't like it (I'm fairly tall) so it's sitting
in the closet.

I've had it for a couple weeks now and love it. I stand anywhere from 1hr -
6hrs/day depending on what's going on. This isn't the best image of the desk,
but I took this picture the other week for a "show us your office" thread:
[http://imgur.com/ybIEoqB](http://imgur.com/ybIEoqB) The desk is at sitting
height. The bubble looking thing under the desk is the subwoofer for the
Harman Kardon sound system option that came with it. You could probably order
it for $30 or so cheaper separately on Amazon, but I didn't want to hassle
with drilling/finding my own screws. It has 4 height memory presets. I'm 6'1"
and the highest desk height is about 6" higher than what I use standing.

Now that I have a standing desk I can't imagine going back, but I'd definitely
want an adjustable desk. If I had to choose between a fixed sitting desk or a
fixed standing desk I'd choose a fixed sitting desk.

~~~
m_t
This looks great. Does the sub woofer makes the desk or the stuff on the desk
vibrate a bit?

~~~
gmays
Thanks.

No, it's attached very securely to the desk so it doesn't rattle.

If I play hip hop with a lot of bass and turn it up loud you can feel the bass
hit as you'd expect to, but nothing on the desk shakes, it's pretty sturdy.
Besides, I only turn it up that loud when my wife and I are hanging out in the
living room, not while I'm working.

------
the_af
I know at least one workplace where they use desks that can be adjusted to a
standing or sitting position. If you feel like standing, you stand. If you
prefer sitting, you sit. Isn't this the best of all worlds?

I tend to find the reclining & feet up posture described near the end the most
comfortable for me, though it also tends to make me drowsy. Ergonomics
"experts" however have told me again and again that the sitting upright
position is the best for my back, which seems to contradict this article.

~~~
snlacks
I guess it depends on whether we're talking spine, muscles, circulation or
back-as-support for the whole body.

Standing seems like "paleo" to me. Our ancestors did it so it must be best, am
I right brah? They died younger or had much worse old age, but I guess it
depends on the definition of best/better as well as definition of spine.

Edit: emphasize sarcasm

~~~
the_af
I hear you about the "paleo" fads, but in this case I think spending so many
hours sitting in front of a computer, without taking breaks or exercising your
muscles, is genuinely bad. I know _I_ have a terrible slouching posture, and
wonder if it's caused by my extremely sedentary computer-induced habits.

What's wrong with an adjustable desk that lets you change postures to whatever
you feel more comfortable at any given moment? I know I wouldn't use it in a
standing position _all the time_ , but maybe some of the time?

------
deckiedan
I had a standing desk for several months - and it was a mixture of good and
bad. When I had a delayed flight though Dubai and ended up stuck in a queue
for 4 hours waiting to rebook tickets, it meant I didn't feel too much more
fatigue than a normal day at work. :-)

I think it was helping me not slouch so much - so probably good for my back.

But then, with our newborn (colic, etc.), I was just so exhausted in general,
that I found I'd arrive at work and not have the energy to stand upright for
more than an hour or so, and sometimes just walking upstairs to my desk would
make me feel out of breath and floppy.

So when I had to move offices, I simply couldn't be bothered to re-set up all
the stuff I'd need for a standing desk, and resorted to a chair. I've only
been back in the chair for a month or so, so I don't know if my posture will
end up as awful as before. Maybe the thing to do is to use a standing desk
half the year, and a sitting desk the other half... An adjustable desk would
be best, but either expensive, or complicated.

~~~
brianwawok
Standing desk + a tall chair w back is a decent option to let you change back
and forth a lot..

~~~
borgia
Sounds like a great option. The desks that can rise/lower to standing/sitting
positions are pretty damn expensive. Setting up an Ikea standing desk with a
barstool so you can stand/sit when you want to sounds optimal and cost
effective.

------
vespassassina
I am sorry to say this, but the entire article sounds like you are
rationalising an irrational decision. As the studies show sitting is bad for
you and while is understandable that not everybody can get used to work
standing, just arguing against the research will not do any good. The final
conclusion:

"The key is to do some activity every day. It doesn’t have to be a five-mile
sprint. A walk to and from work, taking the stairs, or some squats while
you’re waiting for your lunch can be enough to do the trick."

Sounds exactly like the stuff smokers say to justify their smoking habit.

I don't want to defend any religion (the standists? lol), i can just say that
i like it, and i like it so much that after 3 years of standing i would keep
doing that and i would really suggest to everybody to try for at least 3/4
months. You need time to get really used to it. After that make your decision.

------
dahart
Whenever I've tried standing, my feet ache within about 10 minutes. Walking I
can do for much, much longer stretches. Either way, it's a big change to go
from sitting all day to either walking or standing, and a good idea to blend
it in to your work day slowly over a couple of weeks rather than force
yourself to go whole hog from the the first day.

Now that I think about it, when I switched from sitting to walking, I got a
tall sit/stand stool so I could switch a lot. It was a really cheap stool, and
it put my butt and legs to sleep in 10-20 minutes. It was so uncomfortable
that I would only use it when standing was starting to hurt, and I'd sit until
sitting was starting to hurt, and then have to stand again. That stool didn't
last long, but it might have helped me transition more than I thought.

~~~
RossM
Aching in the balls of my feet is the most common pain I get. I've tried using
a soft mat which had no effect compared to a hard floor. It seems to be down
to footwear - running trainers can be fine for several hours but with converse
flats I'll barely last 2.

------
cullenking
Standing desks can be "affordable", though still not cheap. I've been using
the Jarvis base, and putting my own locally sourced hardwood tops on them. The
base is $500 shipped inside the US ($520 with the digital controller), and you
can put whatever top you want on it. The Jarvis base is high quality, i've got
10 of them in my office now.

Here's a pic of my biz partner modeling one during our recent office move:
[https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UNFNw1p6-Xw/VG_WYEYFfYI/A...](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UNFNw1p6-Xw/VG_WYEYFfYI/AAAAAAAAQbE/dqOQbSyzT8k/w760-h570-no/IMG_20141121_161831.jpg)

------
josefresco
I sit on a ball chair. It encourages me to bounce and move, not "slouch" or
crumple into the chair (since it has a minimal back) and also makes it easy
for me to pop up and stretch my legs.

Sitting in my home office leather/traditional chair causes my feet to go cold,
the ball chair doesn't have this same side effect.

Also, leaning in a pinching your neck muscles/nerves is a major factor. Make
sure you're screens are high enough, and close enough to discourage this
behavior.

------
gima
I built a standing desk and wanted to be able to both stand and sit. No chair
that I found was that high.

Solution: Good office chair with a back rest and a fat rectangular beanbag
propped on top of the chair.

Pros: I can adjust my sitting position. Cons: I have to reset the beanbag
because it de-forms after a while of climbing on top of it and out of it.

~~~
mlieberman85
There are chairs that tall they're often referred to as "office stools."

------
iliaznk
I just bought a Bekant adjustable desk from Ikea a couple of weeks ago and I
can say I'm very happy with it! I wouldn't be able to stand all day through,
but it feels so good to sit after an hour of standing and to stand after an
hour of sitting. Would totally recommend it, although it's quite expensive.

------
rand_r
Article summary[1]:

1\. Sitting isn't actually that bad for you, so there's no rush to get on a
standing desk

2\. He found standing too uncomfortable and distracting to focus properly on
actual work

-

[1]: My take from a quick scan, for those who don't want to read.

------
michaeljbishop
The point isn't to stand 100% of the time. The point is to be able to switch
it up as your body needs. Stand sometimes. Sit sometimes. I often change over
the course of the day.

------
serve_yay
I have one that raises and lowers, I wouldn't want a pure standing desk. The
hydraulic ones aren't cheap, though.

~~~
avtar
Apparently Ikea has a powered standing desk that costs ~$500
[http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikeas-own-standing-
desk.html](http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikeas-own-standing-desk.html) I
haven't been able to find one yet.

~~~
cpbotha
I bought that desk in 2013 and have been using it ever since, would not be
able to go back to a normal desk.

The secret is definitely that it should be adjustable, that is you should be
able to vary between sitting and standing. I switch about 4 to 5 times per
day.

It's glaringly obvious that you're not supposed to stand and work the whole
day. I don't understand how the author of the linked post (and many other
"standing desks suck" articles) didn't realize this.

