
Microsoft abandon Metro name due to legal challenge - i386
http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/08/02/microsoft-ditches-metro-now-using-windows-8-style-ui/
======
secoif
"Windows 8-style UI"???? Did their legal team pick that name? This says so
much about the state of Microsoft.

This new name has a totally different persona and sends a confusing, unsexy
message about Microsoft's vision for the future. It shows no competent
person/team is in charge of maintaining a unified, consistent brand, but I
guess we already knew that. The name "Metro" must have been an accident. Is
"Windows 8-style UI" even really a name? It's more of a literal description. I
don't know how you could pick something more lacklustre.

The experience formerly known as "Metro" encapsulates all of the innovative,
risky developments Microsoft has been making on the UI front, with mostly
positive responses (at least regarding the appearance). Metro was the word for
Microsoft's sex appeal. Changing the name to something so unmemorable and
vanilla is like deleting the word and its definition from the dictionary.

While this could have been a great opportunity to fuel the hype for the new UI
with a slick new name, instead they choose to wet blanket the whole thing,
making "Metro" not even really a thing anymore.

Microsoft needs help, they're clearly very, very sick.

~~~
iy56
"If Microsoft had invented sushi, they would have called it 'Cold Dead Fish'"

~~~
54mf
Windows Chillfish, Enterprise Plus Edition

[Edit] I take that back. Judging by how their legal department utterly dropped
the ball in making sure "Metro" was a usable name, they probably would have
gone with a name like "iFish", or "Fishoogle", or "Wal-Mart".

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Argorak
Just some facts for those that don't understand how Metro AG can strong-arm
Microsoft into changing their brand name: Metro ows Media Markt (
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Markt> ) and Saturn (
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(store)> ), both of which are huge
electronics stores in Europe all the way to Russia. Media Markt is the second
largest electronics retailer after Best Buy _worldwide_. Both already have an
agreement with Apple about store in store. The worst thing Microsoft could do
is piss them off, even if they would win the trademark dispute in court.

Also, it would lead to the strange situation that you could buy "Metro" (the
UI) products in a "Metro" store, which could lead to actual confusion.

~~~
Gring
Metro AG is not a brand recognized by the public. People only know the names
of its retailers. I live in an area with those stores, and if you asked any
random passerbys what "Metro" is, they would come up with references to public
transport, not Metro AG.

This is also not the first time Metro AG pressed other brands that _are_
interacting with the public into a name change. It did the same thing with the
free european commuter's newspaper "Metro", resulting in a name change in at
least one country (Switzerland).
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2008/sep/22/europ...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2008/sep/22/europe2)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_International>

~~~
Argorak
Sorry, but thats no true. Metro does have stores called METRO which are well
known and they do have electronics departments (hence the reference to being
able to buy "Metro" at "Metro"). Not internationally maybe, but in Germany,
everyone knows Metro as a cash and carry store as well.

<http://www.n-tv.de/img/67/674025/O_1000_680_680_metro.jpg>

And as I said: even if Metro AGs claim is not valid, they are not one to piss
off as someone who sells electronics or software.

~~~
Gring
Interesting. So close and I've never heard of them.

But it's a wholesale retailer, e.g. it's targeted towards registered
professional customers rather than end consumers. My point still stands, the
large majority of the public does not interact with them.

Source: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Cash_and_Carry>

~~~
Argorak
Close to a Metro store, having access to a Metro card is like having a driving
license: most people have it or they don't want it. I would say that most of
the customers there are not "professionals". I live close to one and use it as
a supermarket. Also, Microsoft does also sell to professional customers, so it
is still a conflict of interest.

And, my point also stands: I don't care whether Metros claim is valid or not.
They are a major distribution partner and Microsoft is depending on them. This
is why they can strong-arm Microsoft rather than having to go to court. I
don't care the slightest about the "normal people"-argument, because it
doesn't matter.

------
snowwrestler
Before it came out, the best guess for the name of an Apple phone was
"iPhone." But Cisco already produced an Internet phone called iPhone.

Apple called their phone iPhone anyway and told their lawyers to work out the
price with Cisco.

On the one hand this makes Apple look like jerks, but on the other hand there
is no question who is in charge of marketing: the marketing guys. Not the
lawyers.

This decision by Microsoft seems in sharp contrast. Here the lawyers are
telling the marketing guys what to do. And the result is laughably bad. It's
too bad because "Metro" was a great brand name for a new user interface.

~~~
nivla
iPhone was just an abandoned product line of Cisco so Apple could license it
easily. Metro is fifth largest retailer in the world that incidentally sells
consumer electronics. It will be like Apple naming one of their products
Walmart and asking the lawyers to get the rights because the marketing team
wouldn't budge.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG>

~~~
r00fus
I'm sure they could have worked out a deal... this is _Microsoft_ \- did they
not want to invest in a key brand? How typical. Microsoft shedding brands like
a snake molts. How is anyone supposed to trust their platform?

~~~
rrreese
Metro isn't a key brand. Its a brand targeting developers. The adds for
windows phone 7, and presumable Windows 8 will never, have never mentioned
Metro.

Really I don't understand why you're so angry, if they'd stopped using
Windows, or Microsoft or Office you might have a point, but Metro?

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pflats
Huh. The Metro Group is much, much bigger than I imagined when I saw it was a
German store. Wikipedia says they're the 5th biggest retailer in the world,
67B Euro in revenue in 2010.

Surprised this American, that's for sure. I can imagine why Microsoft would
rather just let this one go.

edit: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG>, naturally.

~~~
runn1ng
I am not sure about American equivalent, but in here (Czech), it operates
under the name "makro" and it is these kind of hypermarkets for smaller and
middle sized bussinesses and they have everything in smaller prices and bulk
sizes/bigger boxes, that don't make sense for individuals but do make sense
for, say, a small restaurant.

from wikipedia: "Core customer groups are hotels, restaurants, caterers,
traders and other business professionals."

~~~
citricsquid
According to Wikipedia "makro" also exists in the UK:

> In 2009, Makro is the third largest cash & carry wholesaler in the UK with a
> turnover of £1.1bn and a portfolio of 30 depots nationally.

I've not heard of them before (lived in England all my life) , it makes me
wonder how many other giant companies fly under the layman's radar.

~~~
freehunter
Speaking off the record as an employee of a (seriously) gigantic US/Canadian
distributor of things, I can tell you a couple facts.

One, if you're in the US or Canada, you've seen our trucks and our stores and
probably have no idea what we actually do for our money. And two, that's the
way we like it. The company actually has customers sign a contract saying they
won't advertise their supplier, and on one occasion refused shipment to a
_charity_ for breech of contract when they put our name on their list of
sponsors. We made $60,000 off the lawsuit.

There are mega corporations who like to be known. And there are mega
corporations who would prefer that only their customers know they exist (and
even then, only reluctantly). I would guess that there are more of the second
kind than of the first.

~~~
bkor
Not allowing your name to be used is quite normal. Company I know doesn't
allow other companies to show that they have that company as a customer.

Reason for that is branding. The other company is basically advertising using
the name of another company. That is a big no. It is sort of saying "company X
buys from us, so you should too".

~~~
freehunter
We found out a vendor was using our name to pimp their products to other
distributors. That vendor was then caught with bad policies that allowed their
product to become infected with malware. As we were dealing with that issue,
we got a call from one of our competitors asking if we were infected as well,
as they knew we used the same product from the same vendor.

You're absolutely right, keeping your brand carefully under your control is
absolutely critical.

------
crazygringo
But how can there be trademark confusion between a retail store and an OS
interface?

I'm really surprised at this. Or was Metro just a codename all along, the word
never used in the Windows 8 product itself? In which case, not worth a fight?

~~~
progrock
Yeah and how can you trademark a word like 'Apple.' It beggars belief. How
about Microsoft Metro?

~~~
Zenst
Oh the history of Apple vs Apple records (setup by the beatles - music group
some heard of) is a realy good read.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer>

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nhebb
They should just tweak the spelling to Windows Metwo. Then they could market
it as Windows Me 2.0.

I know that's a ridiculous, non-HN type of comment, but really it's no more
ridiculous than someone confusing a software UI style with a retail store.

~~~
sp332
MS also has retail stores though.

~~~
nhebb
That's a valid point. I don't think the brick and mortar store would be a
factor, but if Microsoft's app store had a Metro app section, then Metro AG
would have a legitimate claim to defend their trademark.

------
gvb
I loved the suggestion _They should condense it to the "W8" or "wait" UI._ I
wish _I_ had thought of that! I know what I'll be referring to Win8 from now
on. :-D

~~~
hdivider
As nice as that may sound, I don't think Windows 8 is a 'wait' UI. Once you
learn how to use it properly it's actually significantly faster than Windows
7.

~~~
briandear
What does 'properly' mean? Does that mean it must be tweaked and optimized to
run fast?

~~~
numo16
Vanilla Win 8 install on a bootable vhd on my notebook runs noticeably faster
than a vanilla install of Win 7 on the same machine. Also, once you come to
terms with the start screen just being a full screen start menu (less than an
hour of use), the whole thing just kind of makes sense. I don't use Win 8
differently than Win 7, when all is said and done, other than small
productivity increases from everything seeming to be quicker to find/access.

------
Steko
Why not submit the more substantial link from ars technica?

The Loop link we have here is basically the same one liner Gruber made but 30
minutes later. {this decribes a lot of posts from The Loop}

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Zenst
Class, not the first time a company have publicly announced a product before
launch, rolled with it for a year then then just before launch got pointed out
there nicking somebody else's name. Metro is also a free newspaper in the UK,
name of a subway system....

RIM had the same level of snafu recently as well with the whole BBX branding
they went on about and then got told it was somebody elses.

Microsoft could just add another M infront and call it MMetro, but whatever
they call it, it's putting a mobile phone interface onto a desktop, so what do
they call it on there mobile platform?

ALso why did they pick Metro - what did it stand for Microsoft Enormous Tile
Royalty Option(!) Meaningless Enviroment To Ride Obscurity(!) I don't know and
I don't think they did either.

Still at least we have more faith in them testing thre software than we do
there naming, don't we.

~~~
eblade
Could it be that newspaper and subway system that were named Metro are both
operating locally so there's no brand confusion while Metro AG has worldwide
operations?

~~~
Zenst
More than likely, but it is understandable that nobody would want to be
associated with what microsoft is pushing out as a UI.

I also wonder though that it is this late stage that perhaps Metro AG is not
that big of a global brand that the only confusion would be non existant.
Especialy as there business appears as unrelated as any paper or tube train.

Still its PR for Metro AG and given the late stage maybe some potentual pay
off from Microsoft, why else leave it until now.

------
cft
It's actually a good thing for them. Generic bland names, such as "Metro",
"Live", "Color", "Slide" do not work. "New iPad" is better.

~~~
MartinCron
Have you forgotten how much everyone hated the iPad name when it was first
announced? "New iPad" only sounds good because people have come to the love
the iPad.

~~~
ralfd
Remember when Nintendo anounced the name "Wii"? Everyone was ridiculing it and
web cartoonists had a productive work day. And then everybody moved on and
today it is just normal.

------
obilgic
Maybe changing the name of the product when it is finally released to the
public is a good idea?, they basically remove the link between the early
reviews and the final product. So the public might not even see the these
initial bad reviews etc.

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stupandaus
According to the zdnet article linked by recoilednsake:

Update: A spokesperson is now saying the reason for this Metro de-emphasis is
not related to any litigation. (I asked if it is related to any kind of
copyright dispute that hasn't yet gone to litigation and was told there would
be no further comment.)

The spokesperson added:

“We have used Metro style as a code name during the product development cycle
across many of our product lines. As we get closer to launch and transition
from industry dialog to a broad consumer dialog we will use our commercial
names.”

~~~
libria
Their earlier literature makes this harder to believe:

> Metro is our design language. We call it Metro because it's modern and
> clean. It's fast and in motion. It's about content and typography. And it's
> entirely authentic.

At some point, trying to spin something obviously related to legal issues
makes you look silly. Why not just say they respect the established brand and
gain nice-guy points?

------
dhughes
Why not just call it Urban?

------
hdivider
I doubt this will have a lasting negative impact on the Windows 8 platform,
because I suspect that the majority of mainstream users haven't really encoded
the 'Metro' name into their minds yet.

Still, if this is true, it's not great news for MS.

(And neither for those who have already registered sites like metrodev.com)

------
InclinedPlane
I think I'll wait for a more trustworthy confirmation of this rumor to get
worked up about it.

------
petercooper
Microsoft might abandon it, but as a name for a certain visual style, I
suspect "Metro" will live on. (Consider Ajax. Also a brand of cleaning
products.) It's too distinctive a style to either lack a name or be tied to
one product (like Windows 8).

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thepumpkin1979
Same thing happended with Windows Workflow Foundation in 2005.

[http://blogs.msdn.com/b/scottwoo/archive/2005/10/13/480676.a...](http://blogs.msdn.com/b/scottwoo/archive/2005/10/13/480676.aspx)

------
dkhenry
This is rather silly, I wonder if this is also why Longhorn was changed to
Vista. I for one hope the use of Metro sticks around just to spite Metro AG.

~~~
notatoad
Longhorn wasn't changed to vista, it was always a code name and never intended
for release. Just like windows whistler and windows blackcomb were never
intended to be release names.

~~~
jaredsohn
For those curious, those names came about because there is a Longhorn Bar in
the Whistler-Blackcomb ski resort in British Columbia.

Here is Wikipedia's list of Microsoft codenames:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_codenames>. Strangely, the
article lists Metro as the Windows 7 UI. Also, the XML Paper Specification
(XPS) had previously also used the Metro codename.

------
freditup
I'm not sure how much of an impact this will have. I'm guessing that the name
'Metro' will stick around, even if Microsoft doesn't officially use it.

------
Scorponok
Someone really dropped the ball on this. They should have had this figured out
before they used the name "Metro" for the first time.

------
10098
But everybody is going to call it "Metro" anyway!

------
damian2000
A legal challenge has never stopped them before. Also you'd imagine they could
always come to some compensation agreement.

------
russtrpkovski
Apple would have kept the Metro name and settled out of court later. Its a
shame that Microsoft is too risk-averse.

------
54mf
Metro is just about the only thing Microsoft has going for it these days, as
far as I'm concerned. What a blunder.

~~~
r00fus
Kinnect is a winner, too.

~~~
54mf
Indeed. When I say "just about", I'm referring to the Xbox division. Some good
stuff happening there too.

------
martingordon
This is truly a shame and probably explains why Microsoft chose Windows Phone
OS instead of Metro OS. I wonder why they didn't attempt to license the name
or fight it (since it's unlikely that using the same name for a UI style and a
retailer would cause any consumer confusion).

~~~
fpgeek
That doesn't mean picking "Windows Phone" isn't still a blunder. "Windows" is
not a great brand to begin with and it already had a worse reputation after
Microsoft abandoned Windows Mobile. Unfortunately, all of the WP7 shenanigans
have only made this worse.

At this point, they really should go with something like "Xbox Phone" and I
half-wonder if they'd do better with "Bob Phone" (it was at least a long time
ago).

------
manojlds
How come this is coming up only now? Didn't WP7 release in 2010?

------
StacyC
MS is like the Keystone Cops of the tech world sometimes.

------
dutchbrit
Seriously, "Metro"? It's a dictionary word, and they are completely in
different branches. I wouldn't expect Microsoft to give up just like that..

------
notatoad
I like this. 'metro' is unnecessary jargon, a design language does not need to
have a trademark name. Just referring to it as what it is makes a lot more
sense.

~~~
panacea
Why can't a design language have a name (not necessarily a trademark)?

It can be used to differentiate it from what it's not. Programmers use names
for everything, why can't a design have a name?

Apple had the aqua visual style, that is no longer with us.

~~~
commandar
Wouldn't this be more akin to Cocoa and Carbon in the Apple world? Metro goes
a bit deeper than _just_ the UI layer, as I understand it.

~~~
jopt
Not quite. Cocoa is really just an Objective-C API, though it's coupled with
Aqua through Xcode and recent innovations like AutoLayout, whereby HIG
policies are enforced by code. Metro seems to be more than that.

------
lubos
I call bullshit on this one. Metro is a dictionary word so it cannot be
trademarked as it is. I don't believe Microsoft would give up so easily.

~~~
grabeh
Broadly speaking, any word can be trade marked if it is distinctive/not
descriptive. Apple is distinctive for computers, but not for actual apples. As
a result, I couldn't get a trade mark for 'Apple' for apples, but I could (or
at least Apple did) for computers etc.

------
recoiledsnake
Better story than the blogspam linked:

[http://www.zdnet.com/is-metro-now-a-banned-word-at-
microsoft...](http://www.zdnet.com/is-metro-now-a-banned-word-at-
microsoft-7000002052/)

This is actually a good move, since the Metro design philosophy was getting
confused with the WinRT environment. You can make a WinRT app that's not Metro
looking, and you can also make a Desktop app that's Metro (see MetroTwit
[http://www.metrotwit.com/wp-
content/themes/MetroTwit2012/ima...](http://www.metrotwit.com/wp-
content/themes/MetroTwit2012/images/mtwindows8_screen.png) ).

So the two different app types in Windows 8 will be WinRT apps and Desktop
apps. Not a big fan of the 'Windows 8 style UI' terminology though, maybe they
should come up with a different name to represent the design philosophy.

~~~
isani
I think this is a demotion for desktop apps. The phrase "Windows 8 style UI"
implies that the colorful rectangle look is _the_ style for Windows 8. The
classic desktop environment, by implication, is not Windows 8 style.

~~~
aggronn
The Metro look is supposed to be ported to the desktop experience (see: office
13, github for windows). Their intention is for normal desktop applications to
adopt his theme.

The classic desktop environment is windows 8 style. Apps that are not
developed for it, certainly are not Windows 8 style.

------
drivebyacct2
How did this not come up before?

------
ktizo
Oh zune.

~~~
marze
I love short jokes.

