
AMD Ryzen Full Lineup Prices, Specs and Clock Speeds Leaked - CoolGuySteve
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-full-lineup-pricing-clock-speeds-leaked/
======
jhoechtl
Given the price and the feature comparison to Intel, Ryzen sounds awesome.
Hopefully it will spark new innovation between AMD and Intel. And hopefully
AMD will life up to where it was once when they gave name to the AMD64
architecture.

~~~
chrisseaton
> feature comparison

Are there interesting features that differentiate them from Intel beyond
performance/cost? As in new instructions or things like that?

~~~
dogma1138
No, and as far as high end instructions then only 128bit AVX is natively
supported on Zen, with 256bit AVX possible with half the throughput and no
512bit AVX support at all. That said because Intel disables AVX2 in half its
SKU's at least that will likely not to be a major impact. As far as other
features it's still TBD, virtualization works better on Intel currently, some
other platform dependant issues would also probably still favor intel. Intel
makes their storage, networking and USB in house, AMD doesn't, AM3 storage and
USB performance were considerably slower than Intel's solution and it's yet to
be seen what AM4 will provide.

AM4 will come with USB3.0/3.1 from ASMEDIA and will only support a single NVME
drive, so if you are looking for a professional workstation, need high speed
storage, ECC, and can utilize quad channel low latency memory then Intel is
still likely the way to go even with blue team tax.

If you need multi GPU support and NVME at the same time, as well as other
peripherals that use PCIE then you also might need to look at intel still
since Zen will only come with 28 PCIE lanes. Hopefully they've sorted their
PCIE performance issues at least, AM3 not only had bandwidth limitation due to
PCIE 2.0 support but also had a much higher PCIE latency for unexplained
reasons.

~~~
pooloo1
I think what AMD is really trying to do, or what they should do, is place
emphasis on the gaming community and drop any/all enterprise related features,
and let Intel keep doing that part.

~~~
dogma1138
Kinda, but then they should've released a 4C/8T with very high clock rate CPU
at around the 200-250$ mark for that.

Intel's 7700Ks can easily hit the 5ghz mark on aftermarket air and AIO water
cooling.

Games aren't optimized well beyond 2 cores, with games that are optimized for
more than 4 cores being particularly unheard off.

Games aren't an application that supports parallelism that well since your
sound, physics, AI and graphics threads all have to be synced within a single
frame otherwise everything falls apart.

The worst case for Zen is going to be the not here and not there CPU, with
price slashed 7700K mopping the floor with 8C Zen CPUs in gaming because they
can clock to 5ghz and higher while it's unclear if AMD can even hit 4ghz
reliably on all cores and on the other hand the Zen ecosystem not being mature
enough for the prosumer and professional types due to subpar
support/performance of storage, peripherals and memory.

The biggest mistake I made is getting a 2nd 5820K for my gaming rig, I got it
cheap so I don't mind but performance wise I would be better off with a
6700/7700K. And I'm lucky as my 5820K hits 4.5-4.6ghz with an AIO cooler.

~~~
dijit
Anecdatum, but the game I worked on (Tom Clancys The Division) will perform
much better on a quad core than a dual core. We're CPU bound long before GPU
bound.

~~~
rasz_pl
Doesnt really matter when even a $65 G4560 hits reliable 80fps in division

~~~
onli
Not really a a fair point. The G4560 is extraordinary value for the money. It
is a dual core, but it has hyperthreading. And as much as I was surprised by
this when the i3s showed it, hyperthreading helps a lot in situations where 4,
well, I'd like to say cores, are expected. The G4560 is eating the whole
budget processor market right now – but that does not mean that his example
doesn't show something: There are a number of games by now that rely on having
a processor that can power multiple threads. And those games profit a lot from
having more cores – you can play with the Pentium, and it absolutely is the
best pick for a budget build, but you still get budget performance. And that
means there are some games that won't run very well with it, and some min-FPS
will be lower than one would want.

The pendulum has swung so far far that (some) recent games began to run good
on the old FX chips, see Watchdog 2. If not looking at budget chips, having
multiple cores is attractive for gamers by now. Maybe the potential of hexa-
cores is not used that much yet, but it is obvious that will come, and games
like Battlefield 1 do use them already. I think those Ryzen hexa-cores have a
very good chance at the market, if their single thread performance is high
enough.

~~~
rasz_pl
I feel that AMD forced that change in accidentally clever way by embedding
itself in current generation of consoles. 8 anemic 1.6 GHz cores forced whole
gaming industry to start taking multi threading seriously.

------
rkrzr
This would be great news indeed if AMD finally had a competitive high-end chip
again. It feels like Intel has just been coasting on their success for a long
time, since there was no competitive pressure from the outside they also had
little incentive to add more cores/lower prices/take some engineering risks.

The CPU market could become a lot more interesting again after all this time.

------
shmerl
AMD Ryzen 7 1700, 8 cores, 16 threads, 65W TDP, 3.0-3.7GHz, $319.

Comparing to my current Haswell CPU, that's quite a great value for the money:

(84W TDP, 4 cores, 8 threads, $300+ price soon after launch, 3.4-3.9GHz).

I'd prefer somewhat higher frequency though, more in line with thier X series,
but without major increase in TDP. But I guess +10W is tolerable for a good
processing power increase.

~~~
onli
I'd be hesitant to judge those AMD processors on the specified clock, even
more than usual.

The usual argument is that clocks are not comparable, because you don't know
that a 4GHz cpu A is not slower than a 1GHz cpu B in doing a specific task.
That I assume is known around here, but is not what I mean. AMD is marketing
the feature of those processors to overclock automatically above the specified
turbo clock. Meaning 3.9GHz should be a lower bound, and it is completely
possible those cpus will routinely clock much higher in practice. See
[http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/jon-martindale/amds-
ex...](http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/jon-martindale/amds-extended-
frequency-range-could-auto-overclock-ryzen-cpus/) (and it is also as XFR in
the original article here).

Or maybe they won't overclock well at all. Well, we'll see after they were
released.

 _Edit:_ I just realized that with regards to the specific comparison I
answered to my point is moot, because according to the table in the article,
the Ryzen 7 1700 does not have that feature. The Ryzen 7 1700X does. That
might make picking the right processors more difficult than usual. I'll let
the comment stand regardless, that feature and distinction might not be well
known yet.

~~~
untoreh
If you do any substantial overclock, meaning you are going to do a little bit
of over voltage, the presence or lack of XFR matters little, and you are
definitely going to go above turbo core freqs. XFR is going to be a nice-to-
have unconditionally because of it being on the fly adjustments, but it does
not seem to be a feature that it is going to make you buy an X version over
non-X. It seems to me it will come down to the classic spend less risk more,
spend more risk less in terms of overclock, just like it was for vishera
8320/8350/9370/9590 , so I don't expect many features differences between the
versions.

------
fictioncircle
Well, this sounds good and I'm happy I am holding out for my new machine until
it comes out.

We'll have to see real world benchmarks by independent 3rd parties to validate
the performance/$ but it continues to look quite impressive as long as you are
staying in the sub $500 range.

~~~
VodkaHaze
The next step up from those CPUs really is going to be dual xeon boxes, which
is a huge jump.

Intel tried to do enough market segmentation that the curve from a Pentium all
the way up to dual CPU workstations was fairly continuous in price, with zen
it's not the case anymore.

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std_throwaway
Do they support ECC memory?

~~~
65827
Hopefully not, biggest scam out there.

~~~
throwawaydbfif
The biggest scam is actually the other way around. Intel pulled ECC support
from desktop processors a few years ago to force datacentres to buy their
Xeons instead.

It's nearly impossible to find a desktop CPU that supports ECC ram now even
though 5 years ago it was commonplace.

Trying to run a NAS with some sensitive data is now impossible unless you buy
their server chips

~~~
mcbain
> It's nearly impossible to find a desktop CPU that supports ECC ram now

That's not correct. All 6th Gen Core i3 have ECC support, and the 7th Gen Core
i3 that have 'E' in the product name support ECC:

[http://ark.intel.com/products/97130/Intel-
Core-i3-7101E-Proc...](http://ark.intel.com/products/97130/Intel-
Core-i3-7101E-Processor-3M-Cache-3_90-GHz)

~~~
c2h5oh
To be fair i3 being the lower end offering with just 2 cores isn't really
competing against any of the server products Intel offers.

Quad (and more) core i5 and i7 that do have near-equivalent Xeon parts do have
ECC disabled.

~~~
jlgaddis
An i3 is very often a perfect chip for a NAS.

------
gizmo
Does anybody know if the Ryzen CPUs support the equivalent of VT-x and VT-d?

~~~
Avshalom
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization#AMD_virtu...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization#AMD_virtualization_.28AMD-V.29)

I don't know how well its supported by software though.

~~~
trome
KVM & Xen have good support for both in my experience, seems to work well. No
clue about support in janky proprietary solutions, but seeing as Amazon, DO,
etc all use either KVM or Xen, with the extreme budget providers on OpenVZ
(where you get a glorified chroot), your probably gonna be using one of those
two.

------
sengork
I certainly hope that the performance/price is on par with the competition
Intel used to get from AMD back in the Duron and Athlon XP days. Ryzen seems
to be fairly low power consumption as well which should help with lowering the
cooling requirements compared to Intel's CPUs.

------
65827
I'd really like eight cores, didn't know that was going to be possible soon!

~~~
rbanffy
Depending on how much you want it, Intel has an E7 that has 24 cores and 48
threads. It can go up to 8 sockets with up to 12 TB of RAM.

I don't even want to know how much such a monster would cost.

~~~
chx
Much less than you'd think if you are willing to go with 6TB only. The 128GB
modules are awfully expensive but the other day I saw 64GB modules at $600
[https://memory.net/product/s26361-f3843-e618-fujitsu-1x-64gb...](https://memory.net/product/s26361-f3843-e618-fujitsu-1x-64gb-
ddr4-2133-lrdimm-pc4-17000p-l-quad-rank-x4-replacement/) here. So that's ~39K
for 6TB of RAM. The relevant Supermicro server (4048B-TR4FT) with four E7 CPUs
is ~14K
[http://www.thinkmate.com/system/superserver-4048b-tr4ft](http://www.thinkmate.com/system/superserver-4048b-tr4ft)
comes with 32 4GB modules which is a waste but oh well, it's a very small loss
compared what it would cost to buy 6TB at a server seller like this. So you
are looking ~53K for the server, CPU, 6TB RAM, you will need a little storage
as well, so perhaps ~60K for a 6TB 4U server. In closing, let me remind you
that a mere two decades ago, Microsoft launched the Terraserver which was a
demonstration of a server with a terabyte of _storage_ and it was very big
news. Now we are here with a machine at the price of an ordinary F-150 truck
or so which can hold the 5TB uncompressed data of the Terraserver in RAM.

------
pmoriarty
How long is it likely to take for Linux to support these new chips?

I need to build a new system and am trying to gauge how long I should wait
after Zen comes on the market.

~~~
notaplumber
There's nothing specifically required by a kernel to support new processors,
except maybe power saving features, arguably unimportant for desktop. If you
mean compiler optimizations, those are usually sent upstream way early..

A cursory Google search shows AMD first sending Zen (now Ryzen) patches to GCC
as early as 2015. So, presumably it has been in a few recent compiler releases
already.

[https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-
patches/2015-09/msg02311.html](https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-
patches/2015-09/msg02311.html)

~~~
pmoriarty
_" There's nothing specifically required by a kernel to support new
processors..."_

Does that go for motherboards that can support these new chips too?

~~~
notaplumber
Not specifically, if there's a new chipset or southbridge it may require
kernel driver update (..perhaps as simple as new PCI IDs) or a new driver
entirely, but similarly those changes are upstreamed rather quickly to
increase the change of landing in a stable release.

AMD and Intel engineers have hardware quite early to work on this, long before
the consumer product ships.

------
mstaoru
Official retail prices in China and real retail prices in China are not always
the same. "White"-imported i7 6900K the companies will buy is ¥8199, but most
people will buy from the marketplaces, where the price is about ¥7000-7400,
i.e. the same as in the US.

Then again, for cheap servers, we can get E5-2683v3 here for ¥1900 ($270), 35M
cache, 14 cores.

------
jbmorgado
I wonder how well they will support some more advanced virtualisation. I.E.
Booting a virtual machine with PCI GPU passtrough in Windows Guest with Linux
host for gaming, or booting a virtual machine with PCI GPU passtrough in Linux
Guest with Linux host for some deep learning with CUDA.

~~~
pavanky
Why would you want to do Linux Guest with Linux host for CUDA?

~~~
jbmorgado
Because it's (well, at least 6 months ago was, now it could have improved) the
only solution to reuse the GPU without rebooting X.

With a practical example:

1 - You boot up your Linux base system.

2 - You fire up KVM with GPU PCI passthrough with a Windows guest to play some
games.

3 - You shutdown windows.

Now you can't use the GPU anymore, the module was assigned by KVM and you
can't - for instance - run a CUDA simulation in the Linux host. You need to
reboot X (you don't need to reboot the system).

The workaround/solution is to fire up KVM with GPU PCI passthrough to another
guest (This time a Linux guest) and in there you will have full access to the
GPU to do CUDA computations (or whatever else you want).

~~~
pYQAJ6Zm
>Now you can't use the GPU anymore, the module was assigned by KVM and you
can't - for instance - run a CUDA simulation in the Linux host.

Maybe we had different setups, so this wouldn’t apply – I used to unbind the
device with the following script, and then load the `nvidia` module; the
device was then available on the host:

    
    
      for dev in "0000:01:00.0" "0000:01:00.1"; do
              if [ -e /sys/bus/pci/devices/${dev}/driver ]; then
                      echo "${dev}" > /sys/bus/pci/devices/${dev}/driver/unbind
              fi
      done

------
hmottestad
None of these chips are for mobile. TDP on the chips in the Macbook Pro is
47W, while lowest TDP of the leaked Ryzen chips is 65W.

What could be of great interest would be if Ryzen came with mobile chips with
LPDDR4, that would really put pressure on intel. Then they could also do 50W
TDP and still compete with Intel for the Macbook Pros.

~~~
dogma1138
There aren't any Zen chips for mobile, there aren't any Zen "APUs" which have
an integrated graphics card either.

The AM4 APUs that are launching with Summit Ridge are still construction cores
and they come at 65-90W TDP also.

Until low TDP Zen chips are out and until Zen APUs are out AMD is effectively
forfeiting the OEM and mobile markets.

Intel has also managed to scale it's current Core based CPU's to as low as
4.5W TDP which I have a very strong feeling that AMD will not be able to do
until 2019-2020 at best, not with the TDP for these chips currently.

That said if AMD does release a 40-45W 4C CPU they'll have a strong chance of
being a contender for at least some workstation level laptops, lack of native
USB3 and no TB might hurt them but if PCIE over USB-C beats TB then they might
still have a chance.

However since the external GPU enclosures became reliable I will never buy a
laptop that doesn't support one for personal use unless it's a very very small
form factor device and that's unlikely. Lets see if AMD will be able to come
with a similar solution to how seamless TB2/3 with Iris graphics and an
external GPU work these days.

~~~
AlphaSite
AMD already has such a solution and Raven Ridge (Zen APU) is coming 2nd half
2017 (as far as anyone is aware).

~~~
dogma1138
It has, it's not out yet, currently it just relaunched its construction core
Bristol Ridge APUs.

Once Raven Ridge will be out we can discuss it, currently Summit Ridge is
nearly unknown.

------
frik
AMD announced Ryzen supports Win7 (drivers). A few days later, they changed
the marketing to Win10. If AMD wants to sell their new Ryzen make sure Win7
drivers are available (even if it's not marketed, as Microsoft is bitter about
it - Win7 is still most used OS).

------
ilaksh
Will it work with Keras?

~~~
kilotaras
Keras is abstraction layer over tensorflow/theano/deeplearning4j(new). Keras
supports whatever underlying framework supports.

