
Swedish speakers of HN: Please check if testimony on Assange was manipulated - nsajko
Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture and supporter of Assange, claims, based on transcripts of emails between Swedish policemen and his own fluency in Swedish, that the senior police officer told the policewoman to &quot;rewrite&quot; the purported victim&#x27;s testimony: he accuses the Swedish police of &quot;proactive manipulation of evidence&quot;[0][1].<p>But then a HN reader, based on a screenshot of the transcripts provided in [1], comes to the conclusion that Melzer is confused about the emails[2]. However, in the tree belonging to that HN comment, another commenter posted the link to the entire freedom of information document provided by the police[3].<p>Could those of you who understand Swedish take a look at that document (I think one would want to start at around page 9 of 16) and clarify the emails and the situation?<p>[0] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spcommreports.ohchr.org&#x2F;TMResultsBase&#x2F;DownLoadPublicCommunicationFile?gId=24838<p>[1] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.republik.ch&#x2F;2020&#x2F;01&#x2F;31&#x2F;nils-melzer-about-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange<p>[2] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22203599<p>[3] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;data.ddosecrets.com&#x2F;file&#x2F;Assange&#x2F;Assange-Sthlm-polismyndighet.pdf
======
capableweb
> 8/23/2010 8:27

> nei.-iäo tronoäl-ait-iäo oioit ratt nu och att dokumentet kommer fram ti11
> dig sofi ' däi-ska'. ' ski cka ääinä-en bekräftelse

"I hope I did right now and the document reached you. Please confirm"

> 8/24/2010 9:33

> Gör enligt följande. rlipp in detta i ett för[ör och signela förhöret. Det
> kommer sä kons-ti gt ut om iag signerar. Jag bi fogar det 9am1a förhöret.

"Do the following: add this in a interrogation and sign it. It'll look weird
if I sign it. I'm attaching the old interrogation"

> 8/24/2010 1:38

> Hei, iaä'lr kanske tröo men iao förstår inte riktiqt hur du menar

"Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I don't really understand what you mean"

> 8/24/2010 1:44

> Gör ett nytt förhbr.'Klipp in texten i det och adressera fÖrhöret till
> ärendet. si gnera också förhöret.

"Do a new interrogation and cut in the text in that, and address the
interrogation to the matter/subject. Also sign that interrogation."

> 8/24/2010 4:35

> visst. men då finns dät två förhör. Men det är endast ett forme'llt förhör
> som trai tiåttits. av mio i alla fa'l l. vart tar då det andra förhöret
> vägen? om det ska oå rätt'till aitar iao att iao måste oöra ändrinoarna i
> oriqinälförhöret o sionära det. Med risk f6r-att fiaftstå som-krånqlio vill
> iaq intä ha ett osiqnerat dokument med mitt namn cirkulerande i
> dirtvärymdän. särskilt inte nu när ärendet har utvecklats som det gjort.

"Sure, but then there is two interrogations, but there is only one that have
been formally done, at least by me. Where is the second interrogation going
then?

If this is gonna be rightly done, I guess you'll have to edit the original
interrogation/transcript and sign it.

With the risk of sounding annoying, I don't want to have a unsigned document
in my name, circulating in "dirtvärymdän" (CapableWeb: not sure what that
is...), especially not when the matter developed like it did."

\----

Think that's it, in terms of editing any interrogations/transcripts. Let me
know if there is any specific parts you want translated.

Edit: reversed the order, so first email is in the top and last one in the
bottom

~~~
belorn
> dirtvärymdän" (CapableWeb: not sure what that is...),

The text says "durtvårymden", and the latter part rymden, in context, is
likely best translated to "ether". Ie, they don't want their name to be
circulating in the ... ether. I would guess Durtvå is either a misspelling or
a specific network.

Update: Did a google (should have done that earlier) and got back an answer:
Durtvå is the "Datoriserad utredningsrutin med tvångsmedelshantering" system.
Translated to english I would call it the computerized investigation and
police action system.

~~~
mindcrash
ether = aether = "a medium that was once supposed to fill all space and to
support the propagation of electromagnetic waves". This definitely suggests
that what their trying to communicate here is that they don't want to see
their names circulating on mediums like the Internet or other oldschool
broadcasting mediums like newspapers, radio and television.

~~~
capableweb
In Swedish, "rymden" kan also refer to just the "space" or "attention" really.
It doesn't imply any public space really, just any space.

~~~
yencabulator
One way to look at the use of "space" there is that an English speaker would
say "room", as in "chat room".

------
tpmx
Swede here.

I think 1, 2 and 3 are irrelevant. No advanced OCR needed.

Link number 4 seems to contain everything in cleartext (well, PDF, but the
text is text, not bitmaps).

While I can read this I can't tell if this is evidence of a conspiracy, or if
it's just the case of a more senior police officer helping a junior officer to
do things by the book. (I do see some hints of this.) I think we'd need legal
professionals to have a look at this.

------
contingencies
_freedom of information document provided by the police_

Just for correct context: wasn't the whole thing leaked before the police
agreed to share anything? That's how we knew what a slap-up job the character
assassination was so quickly. I recall reading translations of the interview
very early on.

~~~
nsajko
The document I posted the link to here says at the top (Google Translate):
"Request for getting to take part of the public record The decision of the
police authority Polismyrdigheten Approves partly". That is why I said it is
"freedom of information document provided by the police", although I may be
wrong on the "freedom of information" part.

If you have links to other documents, it would probably be good to post them
for cross-checking.

------
efrecon
Just wanted to say good job on the translation given the level of errors in
the OCR...

~~~
capableweb
Translation was done from the PDF document
([https://data.ddosecrets.com/file/Assange/Assange-Sthlm-
polis...](https://data.ddosecrets.com/file/Assange/Assange-Sthlm-
polismyndighet.pdf)), where there is no errors visible. It's only the copy-
pasted text (that I pasted in the HN comment to give some context) that has
the errors.

------
BoardsOfCanada
A second opionion:

* 8/23/2010 8:27

Hej, jag hoppas att jag gjort rätt nu och att dokumentet kommer fram ti11 dig
som det ska. Skicka gärna en bekräftelse.

Vad beträffar den muntliga föredragningen för åklagaren har jag ingen mer
information än att den gjordes per telefon av Linda Wassgren någon gång under
förhörets gång. Vad som föredrogs är för mig obekant då Wassqren inte ville
kommunicera med mig. Någon möjlighet att rådgöra brottsrubricering med
åklagaren gavs inte utan jag fick veta att det skulle rubriceras som våldtäkt
enligt åklagarens direktiv.

Hälsningar Irmeli Krans

Hi, I hope that I've done it correctly now and that the document will reach
you properly. Please send a confirmation.

As far as the verbal presentation for the prosecutor goes I don't have any
more information other than it was done on phone by Linda Wassgren sometime
during the interview. What was presented is unknown to me since Wassgren
didn't want to communicate with me. Any possibility to advice on the charges
with the prosecutor was not given, instead I was informed that the charge
would be rape according to the prosecutor's directions.

Greetings Irmeli Krans

-

* 8/24/2010 9:33

God morgon Irmeli!

Gör enligt följande. Klipp in detta i ett förhör och signera förhöret. Det
kommer se konstigt ut om jag signerar. Med vänliga hälsningar Mats Gehlin

Good morning Irmeli! Do as follows. Add this to an interview and sign the
interview. It will look weird if I sign. Best regards Mats Gehlin

-

* 8/24/2010 1:38 Hej, jag är kanske trög men jag förstår inte riktigt hur du menar. Anders Ringkvist försöker hjälpa mig o vi har ringt upp till er utan att lyckats lösa problemet. Irmeli Krans

Hi, perhaps I'm slow but I don't quite get how you mean. Anders Ringkvist
tries to help me and we have called you without being able to solve the
problem. Irmeli Krans

-

* 8/24/2010 1:44 Gör ett nytt förhör. Klipp in texten i det och adressera förhöret till ärendet. Signera också förhöret.

Med vänliga hälsningar Mats Gehlin

Create a new interview. Paste in the text in it and assign the interview to
the matter. Also sign the interview.

Best regards Mats Gehlin

-

* 8/24/2010 4:35

Visst, men då finns det två förhör. Men det är endast ett formellt förhör som
har hållits, av mig i alla fall. Vart tar då det andra förhöret vägen? Om det
ska gå rätt till antar jag att jag måste göra ändringarna i originalförhöret o
signera det. Med risk för att framstå som krånglig vill iag inte ha ett
osignerat dokument med mitt namn cirkulerande i durtvårymden. Särskilt inte nu
när ärendet har utvecklats som det gjort.

/ Irmeli Krans

Sure, but then there will be two interviews. But there is only one formal
interview that has been held, by me at least. So where does the second
interview go? If this is to be done properly I suppose that I need to make
changes to the original interview and sign it. With risk of being difficult I
don't want an unsigned document with my name floating in durtvå-space.
Especially now when this matter has developed the way it has.

/ Irmeli Krans

-

* 8/26/2010 12:30

Ja men jag skriver ett PM om det.

Med vänliga hälsningar Mats Gehlin

Yes but I'll write a memo about it.

Best regards Mats Gehlin

DurTvå seems to be a "computerized support system" where interviews and other
things relating to investigations are stored. I think they are discussing how
the entry for the interview should be updated, not altering the interview
itself but it's difficult to say with this little context.

Edit: Corrected "Add this to an interrogation" -> "Add this to an interview"
and "Paste in text" -> "Paste in the text"

~~~
mlj45
Agree this is the part of the Freedom of Information Request that is relevant
to this, and that this is a sensible translation.

My interpretation of this is that Irmeli Krans is asking Mats Gehlin how to
formally log additional information (in the form of some kind of verbal
communication with the prosecutor) and ensure that this information is
associated with the case file.

The back and forth, again as far as I understand the implicit context and the
terminology used, concerns how to do this technically. Gehlin suggests it be
logged as a separate, additional interview. Krans is worried that will look
weird, since there was only one actual interview undertaken by Krans. Krans
then suggests that the technically correct way of doing this would be to
change the original interview and sign that.

I read "change" here as implying "append the new information in that
document". There is no obvious suggestion of editing the existing text of the
original interview.

------
ivanhoe
Something is rotten in the state of D̶e̶n̶m̶a̶r̶k̶ Sweden

------
jessaustin
[flagged] already? Wow HN has some torture fans...

~~~
dang
Please don't post dross comments like this. It's plain that HN is divided
about Assange, as it is divided on every other divisive topic. That's a
trivial consequence of the population sample being large enough.

------
pvaldes
"You'll have to _edit_ the original interrogation/transcript and sign it"

 _IF this leaks are correct and true and not a fake leak_ , it sounds totally
like two people conspirating to manipulate evidence against a third accusate
of a crime, without his knowledge, and for unknown purposes.

We are talking of: correcting a typo? removing some parts?, adding other
parts? adding a phrase that says something like "yes, I raped this women and
enjoyed each second of it"?. Is horrible.

If proven true, this would be a serious issue that distroys the right to
defence. Manipulating evidence is typified as a crime in most countries. They
had a lot of things to explain.

~~~
nsajko
On the contrary, I think this is more damning for Melzer: it seems
inconclusive as proof for the accusations of "proactive manipulation of
evidence", when he should really have had something more considering all the
fuss he is raising.

Mind you, it might turn out the police _did_ do malicious manipulation of
evidence; but right now it seems more like Melzer is just trying to get
publicity or something.

