
E-commerce will evolve next month as Amazon loses the 1-Click patent - themaveness
https://thirtybees.com/blog/e-commerce-will-change-forever/
======
jaymzcampbell
Setting aside the madness that is the patent itself ever being granted, what I
found most interesting on that post was that this could now (possibly) become
an actual web standard in the future:

> the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) has started writing a draft proposal for
> one click buying methods.

The W3C site itself has a number of web payment related proposals in
progress[1]. The Payment Request API, in particular, looks pretty interesting
(updated 2017-08-17). I wonder what a difference something like that would've
made back in the day when I was bathed in Paypal SOAP.

[1]
[https://www.w3.org/TR/#tr_Web_Payments](https://www.w3.org/TR/#tr_Web_Payments)

~~~
ballenf
I found

> the patent will expire and the technology behind it will be free to be used
> by any e-commerce site

particularly specious. There is no "technology" behind it. It was a concept or
busines process that the vaguaries of patent law deemed worthy of rewarding.

Not to mention that any technology ("source code") Amazon used to implement
the patent will remain under copyright essentially indefinitely.

~~~
nsxwolf
Are you just quibbling about the semantics used in the article?

Or are you saying nobody else can implement "1 click" even after the patent
expires... because of copyright?

Edit: Was an honest question, I've upvoted all the answers as I found them
interesting, not understanding the barrage of downvotes _shrug_

~~~
derefr
They're saying that, unlike usual patents, the content of the one-click patent
filing does not serve as a useful basis for anyone else's implementation of a
one-click shopping cart. This is the whole point of patents: to _publicize_ a
trade-secret process in exchange for protection. If your patent can't be used
by your competitors to (make it easier to) start doing the thing you're doing,
then you didn't really file a patent.

The one-click patent has an implementation, but the implementation is so
trivial that there are only two things you can do with it: either copy it
wholesale, or write your own based on the same idea (which will have nothing
in common with the original because they're both too small to "share DNA" like
that.) In this case, you can't copy wholesale, because copyright. So you're
stuck writing from scratch. At that point, the patent has given you no
advantage in implementation over the simple knowledge that a process for doing
X exists at all.

~~~
CamperBob2
Exactly. If the teachings in the patent aren't necessary or even useful to
future developers, then what was the point of granting a 20-year monopoly in
the first place? No research expenses needed to be recouped, and there was
never any danger that some arcane knowledge would be locked away forever as a
trade secret.

Many patents don't reward the first person who solves a given problem, so much
as they reward the first person to _encounter_ a given problem. That person
adopts a trivial, obvious solution and the USPTO cheerfully rubber-stamps it
at everyone else's expense. This was clearly one of those patents. It cost
Amazon essentially nothing to research, nothing to develop, and nothing to
implement, but the rewards were immense.

------
tyrw
I ran an ecommerce company for about a year, and one click checkout was the
least of our concerns when it came to Amazon.

The speed of delivery, prime benefits, brand recognition, and willingness to
lose money on many if not most items are absolutely brutal to compete against.

I'm glad one click checkout will be more broadly available, but it's probably
not going to make much of a difference...

~~~
elboru
I love paper books, I love seeing them in my shelf, but since I bought a
Kindle I just stopped buying paper books. It is just too easy to buy a kindle
book with one click.

The process goes like this, someone recommends a book in HN, they provide an
Amazon link, I read a couple of reviews, at this point I'm convinced about
buying the book or not, or even if I'm not totally convinced, the price, and
the easiness of just one click makes me do it. That process has increased the
amount of books I read per year. Sure the button is only a small part of that,
but I think is an esencial part, I think Walmart can get a lot of benefit from
this.

~~~
marcosdumay
Would you buy less books if you had to click a confirmation window?

It's much easier to buy books when you don't need to wait for delivery,
unpack, carry around, get up to get them, etc. But your process already
consist of several clicks and waiting for many pages.

~~~
jerf
People may self-report "no", but the evidence is abundant that at the margin,
the answer is "yes". You are some probably-some-single-digit percentage less
likely to buy. That matters very little to you as an individual, it can be
life-or-death for a retailer.

------
mseebach
The space (from my online shopping experience) seems to be divided between
Amazon (with one click checkout, fast delivery etc) and everyone else (42
click checkout and one week delivery, if you're lucky).

If the one-click patent was a major inhibitor of competition, I'd basically
expect to see a lot of two-click check out options. Instead I find myself
creating a million redundant user accounts, telling people that my mothers
maidenname is "khhsyebg" (she's got some Dothraki blood, it seems) and parsing
"don't not uncheck the box if you wish to prevent us from causing the absence
of non-delivery of our newsletter and also not abstaining from passing on your
details to third parties".

~~~
dingaling
> and everyone else (42 click checkout and one week delivery, if you're lucky)

Certianly in the UK the friction of buying from "non-Amazon" websites exists (
create an account, enter payment etc ) but Amazon just uses the same delivery
networks as everyone else.

In fact a small company often dispatches faster in my experience than Amazon;
for non-Prime at least they've been stretching the 'Dispatching Soon'
timelines to nearly a week[0]. Of course once it's in that status you can't
cancel the order.

[0] As a third-party seller through Amazon I am required to dispatch within
two working days. One rule for them and another for the little folk.

~~~
0xffff2
That's surprising to me as a US customer. Unless I'm notified at checkout that
something is out of stock, I fully expect Prime deliveries to arrive within
two days of ordering. In fact, I've seen items that took an extra day to
process get shipped overnight to make up the day.

The US Amazon checkout shows an estimated delivery date for Prime items that
includes processing time and is >95% reliable in my experience.

~~~
mseebach
Amazon prime is consistently next day in the UK (and I'll happily pay a non-
trivial premium to order something on Prime) - even sometimes same day,
although that's never promised, just an occasional nice surprise. GP is
talking about "marketplace" which has wildly varying delivery time (a lot of
the products are drop-shipped from China), but generally do arrive within the
promised window.

------
NelsonMinar
The 1-Click patent was the genesis of a long debate between Jeff Bezos and Tim
O'Reilly about software patents. It resulted in the formation of BountyQuest,
a 2000-era effort to pay bounties for prior art for bad patents. Unfortunately
it didn't really work out. But the history of arguing about software patents
is pretty interesting.
[http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly//news/patent_archiv...](http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly//news/patent_archive.html)

~~~
breck
This was super interesting, thanks for sharing.

I particularly liked this:
[http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly//news/amazon_patent...](http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly//news/amazon_patents.html)

Does anyone know what happened with Bezos' proposal for "fast patents"?

~~~
slim
It got patented

------
dboreham
I have been buying from Amazon for 20 years and have not once used 1-Click.

~~~
fps
I've used it a few times but only because I know amazon's costs and shipping
policies are consistent, and they give you enough information up front on the
item page to make a fully informed purchase decision.

Other ecommerce sites frequently have so many additional/hidden charges that I
would never want to click "buy" right from the item page. I abandon so many
carts when I get to the checkout page because there's $20 in shipping charges
on a $8 item, or they've tacked on a $5 handling fee, or they wait until the
very end of the process to tell you that the item will ship in 8 weeks.

~~~
beejiu
Maybe it is different in the US, but in the UK the charges being inconsistent
is the reason I do not use One Click. (Amazon UK not being as good seems to be
a theme in these comments.)

~~~
djhworld
I don't think that's the case for Amazon Prime (UK customer)

In my experience the price shown and delivery time estimate is always
accurate, and as a Prime customer the delivery fee is included in your
subscription

------
pishpash
This patent prevented a nefarious checkout pattern across myriad potentially
unscrupulous store fronts for more than a decade so was it really so bad? ;)

Some days I feel Amazon was not only the world's largest non-profit
organization but also among its most beneficent!

~~~
delecti
That's actually a really depressing thought. Now we'll all have to start being
even more vigilant to make sure that the "checkout" buttons are "start the
multi-step checkout process" buttons, and not "gimme this item with whatever
payment information is on file" buttons.

On the plus side, most sites I'd be really worried about probably don't have
my checkout information anyway.

~~~
0xffff2
Really? Are there really so many sites that you don't trust, yet have they
have your credit card info? I can't think of a single site that fits that bill
for me. If one did nefariously charge me for something an make it a hassle to
cancel, a chargeback would be an easy solution; it's not likely I want to
maintain a business relationship with them anyway.

~~~
delecti
Did you read my second line?

------
masthead
Still can't believe that this was a patent!

~~~
tuxxy
As someone who has a software patent, you don't want to know what it's like,
as an engineer, to see your work get abstracted into generalities for a
patent.

By the end of it, everything was so generically described that I couldn't even
recognize it anymore. This entire system needs to be reworked or thrown away
entirely.

~~~
devmunchies
> _This entire system needs to be reworked_

In my mind patents were made to protect inventors and the little guy so that
he/she could capitalize on their invention before the market is unleashed.
When multi-billion dollar companies are gaining government sanctioned
exclusivity to something through a patent, something seems off.

But in this example they weren't a multi-billion dollar company 20 years ago.

~~~
Invictus0
> When multi-billion dollar companies are gaining government sanctioned
> exclusivity to something through a patent, something seems off.

So, in your world, why would a medical research lab spend billions researching
and developing new drugs, spend years going through regulatory approval and
testing, only to have their drug be sold for pennies as a generic?

~~~
27182818284
This comes up as an example a lot. The solution is not to eliminate patents,
but just to get rid of a one-size-fits-all patent. Medical patents shouldn't
be on the same footing as a software patent. For example, you could maybe ask
for a FDA-Approved-Drug-Patent which would be different than new-roller-skates
patent.

------
TheBiv
NOTE that the Registered Trademark of "1-Click" will still be valid and owned
by Amazon

[http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:d4r...](http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:d4rhro.7.7)

~~~
fenwick67
How about "one-click"?

~~~
preordained
Haha. Single-click. 1-click-buy. The things you can claim rights to...utterly
absurd.

~~~
thaumasiotes
A "merely descriptive" mark can't infringe another trademark, so "1-click" as
a trademark is nearly impossible to enforce.

You could enforce it with additional restrictions, like color / size / font /
layout, but the text "1-click" can freely be used to describe processes that
require 1 click.

------
romanhn
"E-commerce will change forever" ... strong words. Amazon has features that
are a much bigger value proposition than one-click purchases. I don't see this
changing the landscape in any significant way.

------
wheaties
"They have proposed ways of storing cards and address data in the browser..."

Oh hell no! Just what we need, yet another reason for people to attack your
browser. Don't we already suggest to never use the "remember your password"
button? Now, it's "remember your credit card." No. Please, just no.

~~~
komali2
Chrome already has an option to remember your credit card. I love it. It means
I can be in line for a show, see that the venue has another one coming up,
pull up the purchase page on my phone, and have tickets in second. Or my
partner can buy tickets to the theater on the way to the theater, seamlessly.
Etc. TLDR It's super convenient, and if my credit card details get stolen or
whatever, that's Chase's problem, not mine.

------
dpflan
When the news about Soundcloud's future emerged, discussions turned through
some thoughts about how to help SC keep its roots and grow into what it can be
rather than be a Spotify competitor. The Amazon One-Click patent was brought
up about how to allow buying the song / supporting the artist/record label
you're enjoying.

Perhaps there is a chance now for SC (and others) to use this? (It'd be
interesting to see how often the patent thwarted any business decisions. Also,
I wonder if this was considering in the funding round...)

Here is the comment: >
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14991938](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14991938)

Here is the parent HN post: >
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14990911](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14990911)

------
philfrasty
„...e-commerce will change forever...“

Simply from a legal standpoint this is BS. In some countries you have to
display the customer a whole bunch of information and terms before he can make
the purchase.

Just because Amazon ignores this due to their size and $$$ doesn't mean
everyone can.

------
10000100001010
I have never used one-click but I have relatives that compusively purchase off
Amazon with one-click all of the time. It is almost a drug to them because
they click a button and then stuff shows up at their door. For some users,
removing all barriers except for a click is sufficient to get them to buy.

------
jwildeboer
As a former core developer of OSCommerce, where our users were threatened with
patent infringement over exactly this, I will order a nice glas of whiskey,
celebrating this thing is finally over. This one patent made me join the fight
against software patents in Europe, which we sort of won in 2005.

------
novaleaf
anecdote: I use Amazon for practically all of my shopping, only supplementing
it by going to a brick-and-mortar for food.

I have never used the "buy now" feature, so honestly I think it's impact is a
bit overblown.

Here are my reasons I never use it:

1) I do a lot of comparison shopping, so I like to review my orders before the
final purchase. (in case I put something in my cart and then later added
something better)

2) I want to make sure I don't order something under $35 and get stuck paying
for expedited shipping (which is free for prime members over $35 in purchases)

3) I have a few addresses and cards on file, and want to make sure the order
will use the right one.

4) I use the cart as a temporary list, anything that looks interesting during
my shopping session gets thrown in there (or perhaps another browser window if
doing comparisons).

~~~
twothamendment
Yes. I live an hour from big box stores so I know my UPS driver by name.

5) I use my cart as a queue of things to buy that I don't need "right now".
I'll let things pile up in there until I do need something. I think it is a
waste of fuel, boxes, etc. to place an order every day of the week instead of
one box a week.

------
drcube
This is a "feature" I actively avoid. Why in the world would anyone want to
buy something online without a chance to review their purchase? Other web
pages don't even let you leave the page without asking "are you sure?".

~~~
abiox
it's been a while since i've bought from amazon, but i recall that one-click
orders have a delay before being 'executed'. this lets you use one-click
multiple times and have items bundled to save shipping, as well as review and
cancel.

------
clan
I have always hated the thought that retailers stored my credit card
information. Seems to be very common with US based shops.

If this gets any traction I will need to fight even harder to opt out.

I yearn for the day I can have one off transaction codes.

~~~
aianus
Why don't you like retailers storing your card? You get all the convenience
with none of the risk (if there's any fraud the merchant eats all of it!).

~~~
benmowa
"if there's any fraud the merchant eats all of it!"

\- not 100% true- see "fraud Liability Shift topics" Your card Issuer gets it
if it's an EMV (ie chip was dipped) card-present transaction, merchant gets
the liability if it was online or over the phone-Exception being if 3DS is
used. Fraud is ultimately payed for either by your bank or by the merchant.

~~~
icebraining
If the chip is present, then the merchant storing the card info is moot, no?

~~~
benmowa
no because they can be breached leading to other transactions appearing on
your card.

------
amelius
Reminds me of the joke I read somewhere about a "half-click patent", where the
purchase is done on mousedown instead of on click.

------
stretchwithme
Buying things with 1 click is not an Amazon feature I've ever cared to use.

The right product at the right price, fast. That's what matters.

------
benmowa
"These are the ones [credit card processors] we have worked with in the past
that we know use a card vault. Others likely support it too"

Note The more common term is credit card Tokenization, not just Vaulting, and
is not required for 1-click if the merchant is retaining CC numbers. -
although this is not recommended due to PCI and breach liability.

------
summer_steven
This is almost like a patent on cars that go above 60 MPH. Or a website that
takes less than 50 ms to load.

They have a patent on the RESULT of technology. The patent SHOULD be on THEIR
VERY SPECIFIC IMPLEMENTATION of 1-click checkout, but instead it is on all
implementations that result in 1-click checkout.

Patents __really __are not meant for the internet...

------
vnchr
Would anyone like something built to take advantage of this? I'm open next
week between contracts (full-stack JS), maybe there is a browser extension or
CMS plugin that would make this feature easy to implement?

------
ComodoHacker
I'm sure Amazon has already filed an application for "Zero-click checkout".
Something like "swipe over a product image in a 'V' pattern to checkout", etc.

------
samsonradu
Interesting to find out such a patent even exists. Does this mean the sites on
which I have seen the one-click feature implemented were until now breaking
the patent?

------
dajohnson89
The # of returns are surely higher for 1-click purchases -- wrong address,
wrong CC#, no chance to double-check you have the right size/color, etc.

------
wodenokoto
Does Amazon even use this themselves? I have fewer clicks going product page
to purchase confirmation on Aliexpress.com than on Amazon.com

------
nocoder
Does this mean the use of the term "1-click" will no longer be exclusive to
Amazon or is that a part of some trademark type stuff?

~~~
themaveness
No it doesn't. That is trademarked and up for renewal around the same time.
But it can be extended where a patent cannot. [https://www.quora.com/When-
does-Amazons-One-Click-IP-expire](https://www.quora.com/When-does-Amazons-One-
Click-IP-expire)

------
blairanderson
Businesses use that shit. They don't have time and often don't care about the
little details.

Businesses are the customers you want.

------
tomc1985
Oh joy, now everyone's going to have that stupid impulse buy button. Yay
consumerism, please, take my firstborn...

------
sadlyNess
Hope its going to be added to the payments ISO standards. If that's a fitting
home along with the W3C move, is it?

------
perseusprime11
Amazon is eating the world.The loss of this patent will have zero sum impact.

------
ThomPete
So quick product idea.

Make a Magento integration that allow ecommerce sites to implement it?

~~~
Raphmedia
There's always the One-Step checkout module.

~~~
benmarks
In its current version, it's far from the same. I have no doubt they'll get it
implemented.

------
radicaldreamer
Anyone know if a company other than Apple currently licenses 1-Click?

------
likelynew
Has there been any court case for the validity of this patent?

------
yuhong
I remember the history on Slashdot about it.

------
minton
Please stop calling this technology.

------
drumttocs8
Huh? 1-Click patent? Does this mean I can literally patent a design choice?

------
kiflay
Interesting

------
pdog
_> No one knows what Apple paid to license the technology [from Amazon]..._

This is factually incorrect. Of course, there are executives at Amazon and
Apple who know how much was paid to license the one-click patent.

~~~
abiox
'No one knows' here is idiomatic. Your response seems fallacious; you are
equivocating by representing the words as literal, rather than addressing the
idiomatic meaning.

