
The strength of a monopoly can be guessed at by calling customer support - arbuge
http://blogs.harvard.edu/bugeja/2018/09/16/the-strength-of-a-monopoly-can-be-guessed-at-by-the-quality-of-its-customer-support/
======
nickjj
The US govt has some of the worst support I've ever witnessed in my entire
life.

1\. I was audit by the IRS this year and so far I've logged about 6 hours of
waiting on hold over ~15 individual call attempts of which I was never able to
speak to someone beyond their initial call center.

Then I sent in the requested receipts as per their instructions. They told me
the receipts -they- requested weren't proof enough, so I had to provide
additional paperwork.

This has been an ongoing process for around 8 months and it's still not
revolved. They haven't contacted me in about a month since the date they told
me my case would be reviewed, so who knows what happened. Given they haven't
asked me anything else or sent me a notice or bill warning, I'm guessing they
finally figured out I wasn't lying all along.

2\. I also once got denied a new social security card because I had an expired
driver's license and no credit card. I brought a ton of documentation as per
their website and had enough proof of ID. The lady at the desk told me "I'm
sorry, I can't issue your request" so I showed her their own website with the
proper forms of ID and she just repeated the same phrase. I left the place and
mailed everything in along with a letter and my card was renewed but it took
over 3 weeks.

3\. After waiting 2.5 hours on hold for health insurance I finally got a
person who told me they can't handle my request (even though this was the
number listed on their website), so they forwarded me to a new number, and
then I waited on hold for another hour, and then as soon as I got connected,
they asked for a million pieces of information from me and hung up before
processing anything. It was like 4 hours of a total waste of time and then I
got penalized thousands of dollars in the end for not having insurance.

The worst part about this monopoly is we pay a ton of money towards taxes but
get treated so poorly.

I once witnessed some little girl twist her ankle on a severely broken side
walk. It took the town 3 years before they finally decided to fix it. It also
took them 3 months to complete the job which was to redo about 20 feet of side
walk.

~~~
Aloha
Blame congress for the IRS - certain political elements would like to
eliminate the IRS - they have this idea, that if we starve it, people will
hate it so much we can make it go away.

Nevermind the fact that the IRS wont go away till there isnt an income tax
anymore.

~~~
siruncledrew
Taxes could also be a lot easier if Congress didn’t buy into lobbying from
Intuit and other tax preparers to _keep taxes complicated_ so individuals had
to figure out their own taxes and spend inordinate amounts of time and effort
determining out how to properly fill out every form.

~~~
jonny_eh
That's a totally different issue from Congress failing to properly fund the
IRS, a profit centre! It's one of the frew areas of government that spending
money on makes money.

~~~
mschuster91
> It's one of the frew areas of government that spending money on makes money.

In a well run government, _everything_ the government does should result in a
benefit to the civilization and by it, the government. For example, adequately
maintaining roads or other public infrastructure will save money on expensive
urgent restauration works (e.g. when a water main explodes or a bridge
collapses), as well as promote company growth (e.g. by building real, fast
internet connectivity via local government owned utilities, thus enabling
modern companies to work) which causes tax income to rise.

Even stuff that does not seem to be profitable at all in the long run makes
profits. Take environment protection as an example: preventing or cleaning up
pollution saves cost in the medical system (and even if it's a mess like in
the US where most of it is privatized, the "win" is more worker productivity
because they're not ill as much as before and can work more - or criminality
decreases like w/ lead exposure), and trying to prevent climate change due to
rising temperature will prove worth the money when the government saves money
that would be spent on relocating people on the coasts.

~~~
washadjeffmad
Someone else put it perfectly when they said when cities decide each year
whether to pay into pensions or fix failing infrastructure, they go with the
option that won't sue them.

Ever wonder why we have the grant system we do?

~~~
mschuster91
> they go with the option that won't sue them.

Well, if your infrastructure explodes like that bridge in Italy, then the
survivors will sue... it's gambling, just with lives at stake.

Governments (worldwide) should be forced to a different accounting model -
where maintenance for everything they build (infrastructure) or buy (IT
software!) over the lifetime has to be budgeted for. No more expensive nutjobs
like Olympic Games which will be unmaintainable after the single use...

------
CobrastanJorji
I saw harvard.edu and was optimistic that this was going to be a real study.
Instead it was just "haha, IRS support sucks, monopolies are bad." I've called
the IRS support line multiple times for fairly non-trivial problems and had
nothing but good experiences.

~~~
stephenhuey
Without fail it was a minimum of one hour of wait time every time I called
which isn’t good for me. How about you?

~~~
ghouse
I've got some sympathy for the IRS (in this limited case) -- their budget is
cut by small-government crusaders, thus reducing service, angering taxpayers
and thus aligning public sentiment against the IRS. Same political ideology
also works to make the tax code more complicated, also achieving the same
objective.

But then they're prevented from simplifying -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383)

~~~
hueving
Large government ideology doesn't help the tax code either. Complex tax codes
are a result of special tax breaks for any purpose.

~~~
rtkwe
Poor service though is more about lack of resources than the complexity of the
tax code.

------
paulmendoza
I had to call the IRS recently and had a pretty good experience. The lady was
super helpful and provided me with some resources I didn’t know about before.

~~~
Naga
This doesn't transfer to Canada. Calling the CRA is a chore. The agents are
ill trained and often give incorrect information.

[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/cra-blocks-
cal...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/cra-blocks-calls-often-
gives-taxpayers-wrong-information-auditor-says/article37036667/)

~~~
dude01
I've had good experience calling the business-side part of CRA, though I think
they're small enough that they're a different beast from the department that
has to handle _all_ generic questions/complaints from consumers.

------
gameguy43
Totally different experience with the IRS. My one phone call with them was an
excellent experience. I got someone much much more knowledgeable than me who
quickly and clearly walked me through what I needed. My colleague has had a
similar experience.

~~~
tomohawk
Had a family member who was audited by the IRS every year for years. Each time
IRS received a tax lesson. Only stopped when family member got US
Representative and both Senators to lean on the IRS.

~~~
reaperducer
It's funny how supposedly "random" computer systems can somehow target an
individual.

I had an issue with a sheriff's deputy pulling my wife over on her way home
from work twice a week for a month. Same deputy each time, and unfortunately
my wife couldn't take another route. The deputy would only say she looked
suspicious and then ask her personal questions.

I mentioned it to my boss, who was formerly an important person in the region,
and he made a phone call. My wife never saw the deputy again.

In what I can only assume was retaliation, I suddenly got called for jury
duty. Every other week. After the sixth notice, I mentioned it to my boss. He
made a phone call, and put me on a list of people who should never be pulled
for jury duty (for celebrities, etc...) in that county.

We moved to another state a few months later.

Computers sometimes seem to make the system easier to corrupt, rather than
keep it from being corrupt.

------
mathattack
This is why SaaS companies created Customer Success. They need to win your
business year over year. Once they realize you can’t switch, the audits and
price hikes begin, and the support ends.

------
EdwardDiego
Any New Zealander who is with one of our two dominant internet/phone providers
(Spark and Vodafone NZ) has experienced this well - long waits to get someone
in the Phillipines who can't actually help you, and doesn't quite understand
what they're doing.

They only really compete for new customers, so if you ever ring them to sign
up, well, boy howdy that's a whole other experience. Calls answered
immediately by knowledgeable people.

Duopolies - for when you like pretending you have a competitive market.

~~~
barrow-rider
Also true for Canada, and when I lived in Australia.

Hell, when I was in the Oz I was a PM for Telstra working on getting better
call center infrastructure setup for offshore calls...

------
stcredzero
Does this explain the DMV? The DA's office has a government monopoly as well.

I'm also reminded of what it was like to hire a taxi in the days before Uber
and Lyft.

~~~
Nasrudith
The DMV is also an expense center which is visited infrequently. There is
little pressure to make it a campaign issue to run on. While a pain in the ass
it isn't a pressing issue unless an area is completely un(der)served.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
Indiana did such a thing, though. These things actually make folks hate
goverment a bit less, I think.

[https://www.sagamoreinstitute.org/case-study-in-culture-
chan...](https://www.sagamoreinstitute.org/case-study-in-culture-change-how-
reforming-the-bureau-of-motor-vehicles-can-change-a-state)

------
siegecraft
i guess this explains why Google doesn't even have customer service

------
estro
Could this assessment be extended to "companies can be guessed to be large by
calling customer support"? I can think of few examples of large companies,
monopolies or not, having good phone customer support; many large companies
outsource their call centers, which could contribute. This method of assessing
"monopolies" will give many false positives if the answer to my question is
yes.

------
lostmyoldone
A rather odd one is the Swedish tax authority, they generally have good to
excellent support within the legal framework they have to work with. They are
better than almost any company I've had to deal with, and usually whomever you
get to talk to either know what they are talking about, or can refer you to
someone who can. There are probably people with negative experiences too, but
I've yet to hear a single horror story about their _service_!

As with any tax authority, you shouldn't try to keep them from their coin, but
it seems like somewhere along the way they figured out that they didn't get
more money if they had shitty service, but rather the other way around. It's
probably also easier, and cheaper to retain people if not everyone hate your
guts simply because you work there.

------
arcticbull
The best customer support I've received is from DigiKey - they have millions
of components you can order in quantity 1, and if they make a mistake they'll
overnight you a replacement at their expense, basically no questions asked.

~~~
da02
Do you use them as replacements or do you build something with the stuff they
sell?

~~~
arcticbull
I took up EE projects as a hobby! I should write some of them up, but I do
some PCB layout / design and embedded systems work on my own time. Most recent
was our house door opener which is spliced into the buzzer wires. I source all
my components from Digikey.

------
bitxbit
Amazon’s customer service is still very good to excellent especially
considering the volume they handle and the loss they take on return frauds.
It’s still no Costco or Nordstrom but Amazon is the gold standard for online
retail experience.

~~~
Someone1234
In the last year Amazon stopped price matching themselves (used to be within
the last 30 days). Now even if the item is still in the mail they require you
to ship it back at your cost and re-order at the lower price.

They've also modified their Wish List/Gift List to remove the "Buying this
elsewhere" button. Now you have to purchase from Amazon.com or ruin the
surprise if using a friend's Wish List. This isn't reflected in Amazon's help
site[0] and their customer service spent three weeks investigating this only
to tell me they're "Constantly trying to improve the site"(???).

My point is, that Amazon's CS is slipping. It used to be fantastic, now it is
fine, but definitely getting less friendly in terms of policy even if the
agents themselves are still pleasant. They're more or less ruined their own
Wish Lists.

[0]
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3058771)

~~~
bitxbit
Those are all fair points. Their Prime program used to be ridiculously
generous in earlier days. However, I have a very very hard time thinking of
someone, big or small, who does it better.

------
gesman
Today’s fast way to reach customer support is to make a post on Twitter

~~~
muzani
Social media support might be a better option. I see a lot of monopolies
blatantly ignore masses of complaints on their Facebook page.

I can't imagine anything worse for PR. Post a "Happy New Year" picture and
have 20 people mob that post complaining about terrible service and how
they're unable to reach customer service.

------
nickpsecurity
This article makes good argument. I want to note, though, that Comcast support
has done a 180 for several calls I made.

I receive their call back in seconds. I usually talk to someone in India whose
both highly enthusiastic about hearing from me and apologetic about the
circumstances. If anything, they're _too_ nice since it comes off as
unbelievable. They've credited my bill without me asking maybe twice. When I
need a tech, they're usually backed up a bit but bump me into next day
somehow. Ive always suspected that was a gimmick.

That's the gist of it. They know what they're doing, really polite, better
connection quality than past maybe, and super helpful. I think Comcast is both
trying to improve its image for leverage in public debates and/or using better
support to improve retention. Im loving it either way. Plus, the remote reboot
feature on the mobile app. Saves time and trips.

~~~
neogodless
I suspect there are enough markets where Comcast is not a monopoly as to
affect their business. I've been switching between them and Verizon FiOS to
get promotional rates. I used to prefer FiOS customer service, but in the past
few years, that has reversed. Additionally, when I switch away from Comcast,
they credit me a pro-rated billing period. But Verizon just kept the change.

------
basicplus2
Sometimes the best approach is to do everything by registered mail, with a
return confirmation.

You keep copies of everything included in each mailing, that way if it reaches
court you hand everything over and your documentation does the talking.

I have found as soon as i take this approach it gets sorted straight away and
is never a problem as they realise that they dont have a leg to stand on.

In another case a business always had their used cheques returned to them once
processed by the bank.

When the tax office repeatedly stated a payment had not been made.. their
accountant said over the phone to the tax office "thats funny because i am
holding their processed check returned to them with the tax offices recieved
stamp on it.." it was then magically immediately fixed.

I think its because of people not wanting to do their job within their
department so they handball it when ever possible, on the smallest excuse.

~~~
oldgradstudent
I've been once told about how mail was handled by a certain Israeli government
office.

The mail was sorted into two piles, registered and unregistered. The
unregistered was thrown in the trash.

Always use registered mail.

------
anovikov
Last winter i faced a non-standard situation with Microsoft Office
subscription. I moved to another country and had no active CC from the
original country working anymore - realized only when my Office stopped
working - and had no way to switch country or payment method before paying my
arrears - which i counldn't do because of not having the damn payment
method...

Surprisingly, MS support was quick and absolutely helpful in resolving this
for me - took no more than 15 minutes - and they ended up simply waving my
arrears so i never paid that $10 - and let me enter new payment method.

------
peteretep
Complete inverse of my experience. HMRC (the British IRS) are exceptionally
good over the phone. As indeed were the divorce courts. Maybe the British
government see the British jurisdiction as optional for their highest ticket
clients :-P

The worst offenders in the UK have been cell-service providers, where the
competition is fierce, and companies like Sports Direct, where the margins are
tiny because the competition is so fierce. Good luck with low-cost airlines
too, where the Heathrow-monopoly-abusing (according to VS) British Airways are
also great on the phone.

------
jamesholden
I have this issue with my student loans. They let it sit for weeks 'in
processing' while I accrue interest on it. What am I applying for? IBR. Income
based repayment because I'm effectively poor. It just sucks seeing the balance
grow and grow and have my credit wrecked, just because they let my paperwork
sit in processing. I turn around and re-submit stuff when they ask within a
day. For them it's 2-4 weeks between replies. JFC.

------
AndyMcConachie
I recently had to call the Dutch tax service help line Belastingtelephone and
the experience was rather pleasant. You have to wait 15-30 minutes sometimes,
but you do get connected to someone who really can help you. I had to fill in
a number of rather obscure forms recently and I called them 3 times in total.
Each time I had my questions resolved with about 30 minutes.

~~~
Thiez
Their slogan is "we can't make it more enjoyable, but we can make it easier"
("Leuker kunnen we het niet maken, wel makkelijk"). I haven't yet have to file
taxes in any other country but when I compare my experiences to those of
others on HN I suppose they're doing okay.

------
jdavis703
I got audited by the IRS... I had accidentally forgotten to file one of the
many 1099 forms I had received that year. The agent handling the audit easily
had some of the best customer service I’ve ever experienced and I was able to
get the problem resolved.

------
shoo
For those of you who work in a huge bureaucracy: does your bureaucracy decree
that you must rely on some other internal team for a particular service? what
level of "customer" support does this service provide?

~~~
Broken_Hippo
I worked at a phone company years ago. It was around the time when GTE became
Verizon (it has been a while).

The entire system was segmented. I was in the "disconnect department" \- folks
late on their bill and about to be disconnected or newly disconnected (this
was for landlines).

We literally could not do much more than that. We did not have any access to
billing tools and could not fix those. We could not put in a repair ticket at
all. We could not see cellular service. Basically, if it wasn't a
disconnection reconnection or payment plan we couldn't help you.

Some of this was a knowlege thing: National call centers needing to learn the
ins and out of different state laws (some states public utility commissions
were stricter and more powerful than others). Some of this was built in: We
literally didn't have access to these things. I'm sure some of it was because
training on all of the things wasn't cost effective. There were also things we
simply weren't allowed to do without being a supervisor (Which was often an
experienced rep working a hotline for a few hours).

It does provide horrible customer service in many cases, especially if there
is a wait time to another department. It would make it slightly easier if you
could jump to the start of the other department's queue, but that wasn't the
case. ON the other hand, many states had laws about how quickly you were
supposed to answer the phones and queue jumping probably affected that.

------
Nasrudith
Is that a very good heuristic? Some markets aren't supported in the first
place either because of assumptions of knowledge (including being too simple
to mess up) or commoditized enough that it is negligible.

------
ekianjo
Again an abuse of the word monopoly. I wish authors could grasp the difference
between having a single actor in a market and one that is dominant among many
others. This is absolutely not the same thing.

------
mproud
What counts as a monopoly? What about calling Apple?

~~~
bitxbit
DoJ has a good review.

[https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-
single-...](https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-firm-
conduct-under-section-2-sherman-act)

------
Angostura
The odd thing is, call the Inland Revenue helpline in the UK about your tax
and I've always found them extraordinarily helpful.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Most of my interaction with HMRC is online now, this is far more effective for
both sides.

------
shmerl
Indeed. Monopoly doesn't care about quality and support. Its users have no
choice.

------
jzdziarski
If the aliens typed “call amazon” into google, they’d get a human almost
instantly. It’s not rocket science, although aliens would be good at that too
i guess.

