
Autonomous braking: 'The most significant development since the safety belt' - ZeljkoS
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43752226
======
nxc18
Autonomous braking is a huge step, and, imho, more exciting at the moment than
full autonomous driving because it can save lives right now, and is unlikely
to take them (shots fired at Uber).

But buyer beware. Even within the IIHS safety standards, there is considerable
variability. I love my Toyota Corolla (2017), but it's braking will only take
a few mph off after warning you. I can't wait until my lease expires and I can
upgrade to the Subaru (edit: or maybe the Volvo from TFA). Look up the videos,
they are fully capable of stopping without any collision up to ~40 mph
(disclaimer: never rely on these safety features, it's still your
responsibility to be safe).

Do your research, happy and safe driving!

~~~
saltcured
I've also read enough complaints about inexplicable emergency braking
activation to say that all drivers should be aware these are on the road. You
need to consider that now random new cars may execute a "brake check" maneuver
in situations where you would never anticipate a human to have done the same
thing.

~~~
fantasticsid
I’ve thought about this and and I think the best thing to do here is to
relentlessly keep a long, safe distance from vehicles ahead. There are just
things you can’t possibly see that the driver before you can.(a
puppy/squirrel/whatever that he wants to avoid killing, you can’t possibly
know). You can’t anticipate what a human will do here.

You also give yourself a buffer when vehicle ahead have an emergency stop -
imagine there’s a truck behind you.

I guess what I’m saying is these ‘brake checks’ are welcome, even if they only
serve to educate people.

~~~
dolzenko
Problem is everybody else have to behave similarly, otherwise other cards just
take the place of that safe distance.

~~~
carlmr
It might be annoying, but even if a few cars get in between you usually don't
lose much by getting a safe distance again.

~~~
NLips
I second this.

There are three scenarios if I'm not overtaking:

1) I'm going faster than the vehicle in front. In this case, it doesn't matter
if another vehicle pulls in between us because I'm about to overtake anyway.

2) I'm going slower than the vehicle in front. In this case, it doesn't matter
if another vehicle pulls in between us because I'm falling back and the gap is
ever-increasing.

3) I'm going approximately the same speed as the vehicle in front. In this
case, there tend to be two ways a vehicle pulls inbetween us:

a- it's merging from an on-slip-road (on-ramp?), in which case this doesn't
happen often, and I'll just fall back or overtake b- it's just overtaken me,
then slotted into a gap that's too small for it anyway. If the car has
overtaken me, it's mostly because it wants to go faster (in which case it will
probably vacate the space again soon) or it wants to pull off (in which case
it will definitely vacate the space again).

If I am overtaking, then yes, someone may pull into the gap, but I'm still
overtaking the vehicle I want to get past.

If you stop worrying about going 2mph faster than another lane of traffic,
then leaving a safe gap is mostly pretty easy and stress-free. It will only
take you 15 minutes longer to drive 200 miles at 65 than at 70.

~~~
Silhouette
Here in the UK, where we drive on the left and overtaking is only allowed to
the right of slower vehicles under normal conditions, there are some other
variations:

c- a vehicle in the lane to your left that you were going to overtake has
itself caught up with a slower vehicle and wants to pull out to overtake it,
moving into the gap in front of you

d- a vehicle with an impatient driver is undertaking traffic (passing to the
left of slower vehicles) and then moves into the gap in front of you.

The first of these is a normal situation, but still results in a vehicle
moving into the space in front of you, sometimes without accelerating up to
your speed first. Fortunately, it's usually easy to anticipate this situation,
and many drivers will helpfully drop back a little to allow more space for the
other vehicle to move out.

The second of these is a result of aggressive and probably illegal driving,
and is more of a problem because the driver cutting in may well be going too
fast, move out into a space that isn't really wide enough, and then brake
suddenly.

Still, in my experience these don't cause much delay if you're allowing a
sensible gap in front. I find people who try to keep closer to the car in
front to deter others from pulling into "their" space seem to get far more
upset about these situations than I do.

~~~
NLips
(also in the UK) Completely agree with your closing remark. By and large, by
deciding to not care about stopping cars getting in front of me, it doesn't
bother me when they do. Any delay is completely negligible.

------
boxcardavin
I drove into a dust storm in Central Washington in a rental Volvo several
years back and autobraking saved me from rear ending a car. I made it out, but
a huge pileup ended up happening just behind me.
[https://www.kiro7.com/news/massive-crash-closes-
eastbound-i-...](https://www.kiro7.com/news/massive-crash-closes-
eastbound-i-90-near-vantage-i/81725917)

~~~
jakobegger
I've read about a couple of accidents like this, and I always wonder why
people don't slow down or stop before they drive into dense dust or fog?

~~~
namanyayg
Maybe because of the worry of getting rear ended themselves? And I'm sure a
lot of people do; but then those drivers don't make the news.

~~~
KozmoNau7
Slow down, put on the rear fog light. That's how you're supposed to handle it,
but either people have never been taught to do it, or they've forgotten.

~~~
magduf
You can't do that. We do not have rear fogs lights in America.

~~~
KozmoNau7
Well, you should fix that, then. They're quite useful.

~~~
magduf
It's utterly impossible for us to change this. We didn't invent rear fog
lights in America, so because of this it would be completely impossible for us
to adopt them. We're only able to change the standards for our cars when we
invent them first.

------
oldgradstudent
It's a weird piece. The describe the XC90 as the safest car they ever tested,
and that it hadn't had a fatality since 2002. Then it attributes it to AEB.

The problem is that the XC90 got its AEB in 2015. This cannot be the reason
for the impressive safety levels since 2002.

~~~
Sammi
Yeah. The Volvo XC90 is a big car and most of the excellent safety record for
it can be attributed to the inherent higher safety of larger cars:

[https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-
safe-...](https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-as-
large-cars.html)

[https://www.technologyreview.com/s/413018/laws-of-physics-
pe...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/413018/laws-of-physics-persist-in-
crashes-big-cars-win/)

It's just physics. When large a object meets a small object then the large
object wins because it has more energy and ends up pushing the small object
backwards.

~~~
userbinator
Also the fact that it's a Volvo, which among other things will introduce a lot
of selection bias. For several years, there were no deaths in a Volvo 240
either:

[http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=199...](http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19941022&slug=1937339)

~~~
oldgradstudent
Fatalities are quite rare. 2011-era midsize luxury SUVs have 13-15[1] driver
deaths per million registered vehicle years in the US (UK has half the death
rate per km, vehicle or inhabitants).

It is not _that_ improbable that midsize luxury SUV that sold just 50,000 cars
in the UK since 2002 had no driver deaths.

AEB was first installed in the 2015 model year. If we assume[2] that the same
number of cars were sold each year, the XC90 had 20,000 registered vehicle
years with AEB. We should expect 0.03 deaths.

It would be more __surprising __if there was a driver death in a Volvo XC90
equipped with AEB in the UK.

[1]
[http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/50/1/1](http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/50/1/1)
(first table)

[2] It's probably false, adjust with your favorite fudge factor.

------
matt_the_bass
I recently bought a WV Atlas with adaptive cruise control and front assist. It
also has a variety of other sensors and assists. It is no way an AV, but these
features IMHO add a lot of value. If every car had them, I bet road safety
would increase significantly. I agree with the article. I think it is a big
deal.

~~~
akira2501
> If every car had them, I bet road safety would increase significantly.

If you look into the data on fatal accidents and examine them even for a few
minutes you'll easily see that this is a foolhardy bet. The causes of
accidents and fatalities are highly variable and not what you would expect.
There's also extreme variability between the individual states; for example,
Texas has more _total_ fatalities than California. There's extreme variability
between the sexes and for different age groups within those sexes. Finally,
there are motorcycles.

AI/Driverless, AV and all the attendant sensors and inputs will have an
impact, just not nearly as large of one as many people unfortunately expect.

~~~
edejong
> Finally, there are motorcycles.

Absolutely, I wish every prospective motorcyclist would study the stats (more
than 35 times increased mortality rate per driven km [1]) and discuss this
with their loved ones.

Those who insist driving a motorcycle afterwards deserve their genes to be
removed from the gene pool.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety)

~~~
ghaff
Perhaps you can also provide a reference to how risk-taking is inherently an
undesirable genetic component that should be weeded out.

~~~
edejong
I'd prefer to give a reference to how risk-taking while involving others is an
undesirable trait. When I mortally hit a motorcyclist, even without a fault of
my own, I might feel guilty the rest of my life. So indirectly, the irrational
risk-taking of others is involving those who are trying to act responsibly.

So, I suggest to take the risk-taking elsewhere: go climb a mountain, do base-
jumping or take the motorcycle to a racing track (bonus: real competition!).
But leave other motorists out of your game.

------
jbms
I'd like to see more variable brake lights to go with this:

i.e. a strip of light across the rear of the vehicle, that progressively
lights up according to how hard the vehicle is braking (or anticipates
braking, if it's autonomous).

Some cars have a flash-brake-lights-under-heavy-braking, but I think it would
help traffic flow if you can more easily distinguish a touch of the brakes
from a press of the brakes.

~~~
veritas3241
I've thought this would make sense too and I feel like I'm missing something
as to why it hasn't been implemented. Complexity perhaps?

Interesting to note, though, that we do have weak forms of braking that don't
light up the tail lights - heavy engine braking in the case of manual
transmissions, lighter engine-braking for automatics, and in the case of
electric vehicles (at least a Tesla in my experience) the lights don't kick on
from regen unless it's passed a certain deceleration level.

~~~
arbitrage
There's no tangible benefit big enough for the added complexity and
maintenance cost.

What exactly do you get from incremental brake lights?

~~~
jbms
You get clearer communication from the car in front of its actions and
intentions, in an intuitive way. This assists traffic flow and might enhance
safety.

------
dmitriid
Volvo's stated goal is:

"Vision 2020 is about reducing the number of people that die or are seriously
injured in road traffic accidents to zero. "[1]

As sceptical as I am about corporate statements, you can see that Volvo is
steadily working on this. They don't do splashy announcements or announce
revolutions in driving, and yet they bring more and more changes and
improvements to their cars. From assisted braking to lane assist to blind spot
information to city collision avoidance to many many other small and big
improvements.

[1]
[https://group.volvocars.com/company/vision](https://group.volvocars.com/company/vision)

------
vaughanb
Anti-lock brakes never yielded the accident reduction expected, primarily
because drivers used the improved braking performance to drive faster in
poorer conditions.

I guess the AEB works at reducing accidents because it IS autonomous and does
not "improve performance".

BTW the KPI is reduction in insurance cost.

~~~
clhodapp
> drivers used the improved braking performance to drive faster in poorer
> conditions

That's not the ideal outcome but it's still a net win, no?

~~~
gargravarr
A German taxicab company did a study, pitting half its fleet with ABS against
the other half without it. The accident rate stayed the same (in fact, was
insignificantly higher) in the half with ABS because the drivers felt
overconfident in the braking system:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20100921074926/http://psyc.queen...](https://web.archive.org/web/20100921074926/http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/chapter07.html)

~~~
clhodapp
Yep! But they got to drive more aggressively without a substantial increased
risk to their safety! Being able to go faster in the rain is useful in and of
itself!

------
ggg9990
Another reason the XC90 has a great safety record is that it’s a 4500 pound
car with a 4 cylinder engine. This isn’t safety enhancing in itself but does
ensure that it is only bought by people with the most sedate driving habits.

~~~
dingaling
> does ensure that it is only bought by people with the most sedate driving
> habits.

I would disagree with that statement!

As an urban cyclist the two most terrifying vehicles on the road for me are
the XC90 and the VAG PL71 ( Q7, Touareg, Cayenne ) not only because of their
size but also because they are predominently driven by distracted parents on
the school-run.

Two tonnes of SUV, poor outward visibility, stressed driver looking for a
parking spot on the kerb, kids bickering in the back == danger.

I can understand parents buy them to keep their little darlings safe from the
other nasty cars but I'd much rather jostle with twice as many normal-sized
sedans.

~~~
oldgradstudent
The articles says that

> not a single person has been killed while driving it, or as a passenger.

It doesn't say anything about no one killed by the XC90, which is quite, ahem,
surprising for an article touting AEB.

------
frogcoder
I was wondering about the AEB when the Uber accident happened. It should’ve
been equipped with AEB but it still hit a pedestrian. Did they just pull out
the whole software and replace it with their own navigation logic?

~~~
facorreia
The company that makes the standard safety equipment said it had been
disabled[1].

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-26/uber-
disa...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-26/uber-disabled-
volvo-suv-s-standard-safety-system-before-fatality)

------
tristanj
Volvo's automatic collision braking sure has improved since 2010

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNi17YLnZpg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNi17YLnZpg)

------
urban_winter
The BBC story, also reported in multiple other places, is a nice bit of Volvo
marketing g, but is nonsense.

Volvo introduced Aeb in 2007 on the XC60. The XC90 only got it when they
introduced the new generation a few years ago. Therefore claiming that the
exceptional safety record of the XC90 is in any way related to AEB is just
rubbish.

The reason why XC90s are associated with so few passenger injuries (note, no
claims are made for injuries to other road users by XC90s) is that they are
large, heavy and chosen by safsr-than-average demographics.

------
mirimir
Sure, AEB is a great thing. But it's odd to see "since the safety belt". Air
bags have saved more lives than safety belts, haven't they?

Also, I can imagine additional advantages of AEB. If someone's tailgating,
just hit your brakes enough that their AEB will trigger.

~~~
vilhelm_s
The first google hit
([http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.506...](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.506.777&rep=rep1&type=pdf))
says

> in the period 1991-2001 [...] about 109,000 lives were saved by belts and
> 8,000 by airbags

so I guess seat belts were a bigger improvement.

~~~
raverbashing
I guess the question then is: why bother?

Also airbags depend on seatbelt use to be effective, and some of them have
killed people.

~~~
allannienhuis
? why bother saving 8,000 lives?

In what world is it better to NOT have airbags?

~~~
raverbashing
While 8k is a substantial value, other technologies might be more effective,
less costly and possible safer.

Remember the takata airbag defect killed 15 people in the US.
[https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-
defects/takata-a...](https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-
defects/takata-airbag-recall-everything-you-need-to-know/)

~~~
andygates
8000 vs 15, and that's not a problem with airbags, it's a problem with
defective industrial components and corporate nonsense.

------
harel
This feature is also available in "cheaper" cars. My Kia Niro has is, and
although I didn't get a chance to make "full" use of this (thankfully), I did
incur the "too close" beep which prompted me to break one time I was not
paying the road the attention it deserved. As a side note, with auto distance
keeping cruise control, lane assist that actually moves the wheel to keep me
in lane, side radar that alerts if a car is coming as I try to switch lanes
and the AEB, this is great entry into autonomous driving (as far as some core
systems that are actually in commercial use already).

------
Tade0
I had this engage in my car once. It was the first time I was driving with
glasses on - I must have misjudged the distance between me and the next car.
Scared me, but not as much as the guy following me a little too closely in his
E46.

It does beep randomly sometimes - usually in heavy rain. But that one time it
turned on pretty late, so it's a good last resort.

------
vigdals
Thats some really impressive stats.

I think this is a combination of great safety equipment, the safeness of the
car itself (crash tests and so on) and the people who buys it. Its not the
most hardcore drivers who buys a Volvo, even tho the 2017 and newer models are
really good looking. Volvo has always been a pioneer in security as well

~~~
KozmoNau7
Define "hardcore driver". Is it someone who drives aggressively and takes
dangerous risks?

~~~
vigdals
Yep

------
jnsaff2
My relative owns one. The Adaptive cruise control only picks up moving cars in
front of you and tries to kill you when there’s a stopped car in front of you,
say at a red traffic light. I’ve never been brave (or stupid) enough to see
whether the AEB would counter that especially in marginal road conditions.

------
gmiller123456
Anybody know how well these handle water? I imagine a situation after/during
heavy rain with giant puddles of water. A car in the lane next to me hits a
puddle at high speed throwing a lot of water in the air in front of my car.
Does the car slam on its breaks?

~~~
dingo_bat
If the splash is large enough to cause visibility issues, I'd say it must slam
the brakes.

------
alphadevx
There has been a similar system on Mercedes cars (Collision Prevent Assist)
for years:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5ia5e07BqU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5ia5e07BqU)

~~~
pmontra
Don't use that if you're leading a bicycle race. It happened in the Dubai Tour
earlier this year: the organizers car (a Mercedes) autobraked and the bunch
crashed into it. They disabled the sensor after that. Obviously it's not a
normal use case.

[http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/abu-dhabi-tour-organisers-
bl...](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/abu-dhabi-tour-organisers-blame-
automatic-brake-sensor-for-cavendish-crash/)

------
alkonaut
Isn't autonomous braking standard in most new premium-ish cars? My not-so-
premium VW has it. Any car that has a distance-sensing cruise control should
have it.

------
squam
Perhaps Tesla should consider licensing this tech from Volvo.

/snark

~~~
taneq
Serious question: Would the Volvo system have picked up and appropriately
responded to the gore point involved in the recent fatal Tesla crash? Any time
anyone raised the question of Tesla's AEB's reliability, the responses were
along the lines of "no AEB is perfect", "AEB only works on cars", etc.

~~~
unityByFreedom
> Would the Volvo system have picked up and appropriately responded to the
> gore point involved in the recent fatal Tesla crash?

I'd rather ask, would the Volvo system steer towards the barrier like Tesla's
AP may have done [1] [2]?

"IIHS research shows that AEB systems meeting the commitment would reduce
rear-end crashes by 40 percent." [3]

AEB on its own may save lives. Whether autosteer systems do or not is an open
question.

[1] [https://youtu.be/VVJSjeHDvfY?t=37s](https://youtu.be/VVJSjeHDvfY?t=37s)

[2] [https://youtu.be/6QCF8tVqM3I?t=28s](https://youtu.be/6QCF8tVqM3I?t=28s)

[3] [http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/u-s-dot-and-
iihs-a...](http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/u-s-dot-and-iihs-
announce-historic-commitment-of-20-automakers-to-make-automatic-emergency-
braking-standard-on-new-vehicles)

~~~
taneq
Both are good questions.

1) Do other autosteering systems (such as Volvo's) share this failure mode? (I
don't know much about Pilot Assist but it seems to require a lead car to
follow, is that right? Apparently Pilot Assist 2 doesn't, though? Currently
reading [http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?348321-Auto-
Pilo...](http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?348321-Auto-Pilot-
Assist-2-thread-\(experience-problems\)) and it doesn't sound great.)

2) Should AEB stop the car if there's something solid in front of it,
regardless of what the autosteer system is doing? (I would have thought so,
and it's disappointing that in this case it didn't!)

------
Bromskloss
Still, I can't help but feeling sad, as a human, to be taken out of the
equation and not be needed anymore.

~~~
contravariant
As a programmer becoming obsolete is the greatest possible achievement.

------
roflchoppa
oh man my Datsun is a coffin compared to these things ha. lap belts are
designed to cut you in half <:0

