

Ask HN: Help, I think Amazon is stealing my ebook - latch
http://www.amazon.com/FOUNDATION-PROGRAMMING-Building-Software-ebook/dp/B005BYS3FE
I was recently pointed to a copy of my free ebook being sold on Amazon for the Kindle. I sent a DMCA takedown notice 5 business days ago and haven't heard anything back.<p>When I first saw it, I noticed that it was being sold by "Amazon Digital Services"..which I thought was really fishy - like someone trying to pass themselves off as Amazon. Now that I've done more research though, it seems like this actually <i>is</i> Amazon.<p>If you open the book on the website and you look at the very top, you'll see the original CC Non-Commercial license.<p>What should I do?
======
Cushman
For what it's worth, it's _not_ Amazon, but a highly scammy-seeming Amazon
merchant: [http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/seller/at-a-
glance.html?ie=UTF...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/seller/at-a-
glance.html?ie=UTF8&seller=AG56TWVU5XWC2) ("Amazon Digital Services, Inc. US")

It's hard to believe Amazon lets merchants have "Amazon" in their name, but
there it is.

If you don't get a reply from someone at AZ in a timely manner, I imagine you
could go ahead and file a DMCA takedown as the copyright owner. They're making
your copyrighted material available for download without your permission— This
is exactly what it's for.

~~~
acangiano
Actually, "Sold by: Amazon Digital Services" only means that it's a digital
file delivered via the Kindle ditribution platform. For example, our book
[http://www.amazon.com/Programmare-Python-Italian-
ebook/dp/B0...](http://www.amazon.com/Programmare-Python-Italian-
ebook/dp/B004E3XGC8/) lists ThinkCode.TV as the publisher but it's still sold
by Amazon Digital Services. This is true regardless of whether the book is
self-published or not (e.g.,
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004IYIUN8/>).

What's happening here is that someone took the freely available book and
published it via Amazon KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing,
<http://kdp.amazon.com/>). Violations like this happen all the time and Amazon
hates them. Simply contact them with a DMCA notice and they'll remove it right
away.

It used to be common for people to publish no longer copyrighted classics and
other freely available content through KDP. Nothing illegal about it, but
people were so eager to make a quick buck for no work that it quickly got out
of hand. The Kindle Store was inundated with such content, so Amazon had to
become much more selective about it.

PRO Tip: Always include a message in your free ebooks (unless you allow
commercial use) that if the digital copy of the book was sold, and not
obtained for free, the reader should ask immediately for a refund and let you
know about the violators. Most scammers are too lazy to go into the book and
change it.

~~~
latch
Thanks...I'm glad the company named is cleared up.

I did send a takedown notice on the 6th and haven't heard anything back.

Re the pro-tip..I did stick the license at the top..but, ya, that isn't very
clear. In The Little MongoDB Book, I very clearly state that "You should not
have paid for this book"

~~~
michael_dorfman
Why don't you telephone them? There is a telephone number given, along with
detailed instructions of what to do in case of a copyright violation.

I'm a little surprised you'd write a blog post and get HN involved before
picking up the phone.

~~~
hnsmurf
It's 2011. Who picks up a phone? Phones are for texting, web surfing, and
posting on HN.

------
michael_dorfman
I see that you've released the book using the Creative Commons "Attribution-
NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported" license, so it looks like Amazon is
clearly in error here. Have you contacted them according to the instructions
here?
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/102-5493...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/102-5493690-1847300?ie=UTF8&nodeId=508088#copyright)

There's a telephone number there-- I imagine you should be able to get this
cleared up quickly.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I notice that on the Code Better page,
[http://codebetter.com/karlseguin/2008/06/25/foundations-
of-p...](http://codebetter.com/karlseguin/2008/06/25/foundations-of-
programming-ebook/) , he says "I’m excited to finally release the official,
and completely free, Foundations of Programming EBook.".

This _could_ be interpreted, as there is no contradictory license statement on
that page, as "this book is free-libre".

If "Amazon Digital Services" (which, if not originating with Amazon, has to be
a Trademark violation that could lose Amazon their Trademark right if not
challenged) counter the DMCA notice with such a statement I think that would
leave the matter unresolved and Amazon wouldn't, IIRC, be obliged to take down
the material. You'd have to lawyer up instead.

IA(quite obviously I'm sure)NAL.

~~~
petercooper
But who would _seriously_ interpret it that way, other than as a pedantic
legal defense? ;-) When the newspaper says _"Toy Story DVD Free Today!"_ it'd
be odd to interpret that as assuming you could sell your own copies of Toy
Story. I don't think authors necessarily have to stoop to defining everything
in legally precise terms if the general term fits the case and, particularly,
since copyright law is on their side already even if they say nothing.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
All I'm saying is that it could be sufficient defence against a DMCA. He
should IMO edit the page to state the license.

> _if the general term fits the case_ //

The general term "completely free" means that I'm able to do absolutely
anything with it without paying.

~~~
bad_user

        The general term "completely free" means that I'm 
        able to do absolutely anything with it without paying.
    

In a court of law, it doesn't mean squat, unless the work itself has been
released in public domain and even then, in some countries public domain
doesn't apply or is limited.

That's why there's a copyright law that is applied implicitly and that's why
releasing works should be accompanied by a real license that explicitly says
what you're allowed to do.

The reason "completely free" does not mean anything is because it is
ambiguous. If it refers to price, that doesn't mean you can redistribute it.

    
    
         that it could be sufficient defence against a DMCA
    

No it wouldn't.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _In a court of law, it doesn't mean squat_ //

This is more or less what I've been saying.

> _because it is ambiguous_ //

Ambiguity was my claim initially if you read back.

Clearly you have a handle on DMCA take down notices that I don't. How, if an
ambiguity in license isn't sufficient, does the DMCA protect from malicious
take down notices. If what you say is true then it appears that one can simply
submit a DMCA take down notice and the carrier is _always_ required to remove
the content without and need to demonstrate that it is infringing.

Obviously it's fine to remove content that is questionable, within ones ToS,
but we're not looking at that.

------
svec
Notice and Procedure for Making Claims of Copyright Infringement

If you believe that your work has been copied in a way that constitutes
copyright infringement, please provide Amazon.com's copyright agent the
written information specified below. Please note that this procedure is
exclusively for notifying Amazon that your copyrighted material has been
infringed.

    
    
        An electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest;
        A description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed upon;
        A description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the site, including the auction ID number, if applicable;
        Your address, telephone number, and e-mail address;
        A statement by you that you have a good-faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law;
        A statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 
    

Amazon.com's Copyright Agent for notice of claims of copyright infringement on
its site can be reached as follows:

    
    
        Copyright Agent 
        Amazon.com Legal Department 
        P.O. Box 81226 
        Seattle, WA 98108 
        phone: (206) 266-4064 
        fax: (206) 266-7010 
        e-mail: copyright@amazon.com 
    
        Courier address: 
        Copyright Agent 
        Amazon.com Legal Department 
        410 Terry Avenue North 
        Seattle, WA 98109-5210 
        USA

~~~
latch
Thanks, I'll try snail mail. However, I did send a DMCA takedown notice to
copyright@amazon.com (the address they have registered for such complaints).

------
ColinWright
Perhaps take this under advisement ...

You might want to consider creating a blog post outlining carefully the
situation, the steps you've taken, and the responses you've had. Be careful to
state only what you have concrete evidence for, and/or mark very clearly bits
that are supposition or deductions.

Mark things clearly with the date and time - make your records of the progress
(or otherwise) public. After a few days, start to publicize the page.

Be visible.

When the whole episode is over you will have a documented story of your
interaction with Amazon - this could be priceless to those that follow.

~~~
latch
I wrote down my story so far: [http://openmymind.net/2011/8/12/Amazon-Is-
Selling-My-Free-Eb...](http://openmymind.net/2011/8/12/Amazon-Is-Selling-My-
Free-Ebook)

Not sure what the purpose of waiting a couple days are to be public about it.

Thanks for the suggestion.

~~~
ColinWright

      "Not sure what the purpose of waiting a
       couple days are to be public about it."
    

If someone had a dispute with me, I'd appreciate a couple of days to clear
things up before they chose to escalate it by going public. This is something
you need to decide on - do you want the whole thing to be public, which might
make someone on the other side be more cautious about what they say, and
possibly just "lawyer up" instead of negotiating in good faith.

But I'm not in the USA.

------
latch
I should have pointed out that on the 6th of august I sent a DMCA takedown
notice to copyright@amazon.com (the address they have registered for such
complaints) and haven't heard anything since.

~~~
chopsueyar
You may want to send a letter via certified mail, return receipt requested, to
the address provided <http://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html>

------
wiredfool
You're not the only one, it's been noticed before by a bunch of SFF writers
here: <http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012933.html>

Includes suggestions to file DCMA takedowns, and generally how much amazon
doesn't care.

I wonder, in idle speculation, if a three strikes law would remove their
internet connection for three instances of trying to sell a copyrighted work
where they don't have a license to distribute it.

~~~
nitrogen
_I wonder, in idle speculation, if a three strikes law would remove their
internet connection for three instances of trying to sell a copyrighted work
where they don't have a license to distribute it._

Surely you know better than to think that corporations are held to the same
standards as individuals ;).

------
mike-cardwell
I assume you've contacted Amazon? Have they responded? A little more info
would be useful...

~~~
latch
yes, on august 6th i sent a DMCA takedown notice, based on one of many
templates I found online. I wasn't sure how long it should take, but it seems
like 1-3 days is what people consider reasonable.

I also found a number of article suggesting that Amazon has ignored DMCA
notices in the past, which is what caused me to escalate it.

------
Nutella2
I just looked at the Amazon sale page and saw it had one review from the
author saying that he is the copyright holder, then refreshed the page and the
review was gone.

So it seems that Amazon is aware of the problem and is deliberately continuing
to distribute his book while concealing any information about the copyright
challenge.

------
MrKurtHaeusler
I read this e-book when it first came out. It is excellent. Probably the best
thing I read that year.

~~~
hluska
I agree wholeheartedly - OP, I am sorry this is happening to you, but I am so
glad that you wrote this book. It takes a lot to make me want to stand up and
cheer after reading a book! :)

------
dmlorenzetti
This happened with a report my research group put out. The work was paid for
by the U.S. government, and posted free on our web site.

Some publisher downloaded it, slapped on an ugly cover, and started selling it
on Amazon.

We talked about whether to do anything about it, but in the end decided not
to. At this point, the details are a little hazy, but it was some combination
of "meh", "we did the research on the public behalf, so as long as the
information is available, we're happy", and "our legal advisor says it would
cost more to pursue than this rinky-dink report can justify".

PDF of the work in question:
<http://securebuildings.lbl.gov/images/BldgAdvice.pdf>

~~~
puredemo
I would just leave a review with the link to the free copy.

------
taude
Great book, read it awhile ago. As you've probably figured out, there's been a
lot of articles written about content publisher spam and content harvesting...

Seems like Amazon needs to get their systems together to deal with this stuff
quicker, much like YouTube.com.

------
giddas
Hmm is this also happening with Learn Python The Hard Way?

<http://learnpythonthehardway.org/>

Available for Kindle on Amazon but no mention on the official site?

~~~
latch
zed confirmed that the book is official:
<http://twitter.com/#!/zedshaw/status/102019632772288512>

------
jvanderwal
Looks like this is a common problem and Amazon's starting to take it
seriously: [http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/amazon-cracks-
down-...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/amazon-cracks-down-on-some-
e-book-publishers/)

------
mathattack
Perhaps you could sell a 99 cents version on Amazon?

~~~
latch
I appreciate the thought, but I'm pretty strongly opposed to charging for tech
books ([http://openmymind.net/2011/3/31/Why-I%27d-Never-Charge-
For-A...](http://openmymind.net/2011/3/31/Why-I%27d-Never-Charge-For-A-Tech-
Book)) and having to charge just so someone else can't isn't right.

~~~
sliverstorm
Think of it this way; at $0.99, the buyer is paying for Amazon's distribution
services and nice formatting, and getting the content for free!

No, seriously, I have a Kindle, and I would much rather pay $0.99 for a nicely
formatted book managed by their backend than hunt down a poorly formatted free
version. Plus it is easy for you to update the book.

$0.99 is hardly profiteering, and I feel like in standing on principal you
eliminate a possibility everybody would be happy with.

~~~
phuff
Yeah, though I think $.99 is kind of steep for this feature, it is probably
worth some money to me to get the cross device sync feature that having it be
on the kindle platform provides. I can read from my phone, my kindle, my
browser and it saves my place. I think that's honestly worth more like... $.25
or $.10 to me instead of $.99 but it's definitely worth something.

Of course, if they provided it for free, I'd be happy, too :)

------
ltamake
Send Amazon a DMCA takedown notice and alert the seller as well.

------
mathattack
The link is now dead. I think that means you succeeded!

------
damoncali
Great promotion opportunity. Run with it.

~~~
latch
It's a pretty old book that I'm not sure people should still be reading, let
alone pay for. But, if you want promotion, you could always read The Little
MongoDB Book (<http://openmymind.net/2011/3/28/The-Little-MongoDB-Book>) it's
also free though....(and I'm constantly keeping an eye on Amazon for it now).

~~~
damoncali
I will. See - it works!

------
shinji97
i dont think they will sell anyway... out of the 16 feedbacks they have
received... 63% are negative...

------
sgt
Great, ordered it!

