
My Friends and I Bought an Island - intenex
http://tynan.com/island
======
ChuckMcM
Congratulations! This is something I've always thought would be cool too. 5
acres is a good size, large enough that you can feel "away" when you are in
the middle of it, but not so big that you can actually get lost.

Some suggested next steps. Get a good aerial survey done, with pictures. This
will help in planning, in disputes, and later in figuring out what it looked
like before that thing that just happened, happened. Also hire a geologist to
do a survey (if they haven't already) and identify all the water flow. You may
want to build a cistern to collect fresh water when it rains/snows.

An acquaintance of mine who has a place in the seattle/vancouver area also
build a small gauge rail line from the dock to the center of the island where
accomodations were. Mostly he's a train nut and that scratched that itch but
its great for bringing stuff in before storm season sets in.

+1 on the local visitation. People will drive over there and walk around. In
the US you need to put signs posting it as private property if you want to
have a hope of charging people with trespass. If you set up a fire pit and a
place for your friends to sit around an chat, that it exists will get out and
you'll have other people "borrow" it when you aren't there.

Definitely a lot of fun though. I am very jealous :-)

~~~
jws
Random tips from my own private island experience…

People may visit when you are not there. In the US, the shoreline up to some
strangely defined highwater mark (which is higher than you expect) is public.
Canada has a similar deal related to crown lands (you may own the island, but
the bit under the water, not so much). These visitors have every legal right
to hang out, have a picnic, play jarts, whatever.

When you aren't around you will get more visitors. (I have pretty good camera
surveillance, mainly to enjoy from afar, but I also get to see the visitors.)
These will be bolder and walk around and look at the place.

If you aren't around and the local environment is right, you may get hunters.
We get duck hunters and goose hunters. We generally give a few people we know
permission and kind of rely on them to discourage anyone else. Hunters are
territorial. One year it was posted with "No Hunting" signs nailed to the
dock, but not by us or anyone we know, a good attempt by a hunting hacker to
secure himself a private hunting area.

Have a medical evac plan. I've used mine in weather that I would probably not
have used an Amazon boat.

Have a "pinned down by weather" plan with respect to food and water. I know a
couple that was reduced to surviving on popcorn and bloody mary mix for a
couple days. Also, know when you are pinned down by weather.

A food digesting composter keeps your trash bags from getting disgusting.

If there is cell coverage, but only for odd carriers, consider an "island
phone" that just stays there. If there is no cell coverage, get a VHF that can
reach some emergency agency.

~~~
tlrobinson
Maybe you could install a remotely/motion activated speaker system that plays
the smoke monster noise from Lost to scare away visitors
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-M8P14u_G8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-M8P14u_G8))

~~~
reginaldjcooper
I have a lot of second hand experience that shows this will work fine up until
the meddling kids.

------
brandall10
Just for people new to who Tynan is, he's a pretty far out guy. Some things I
recall (sorry haven't kept up over the years)

1) Ran a successful professional online poker playing business, actually hired
employees and trained them to predictably win.

2) Was one of the main characters in the book The Game (yes, that PUA one).

3) Did polyphasic sleep experiments in earnest (was it a couple months or
so?).

4) Had a giant inflatable outdoor pool inside his house, taking up his entire
livingroom.

5) Sold all his belongings, including said house, and travelled the world for
a year with almost nothing... probably in 2k8 or so before such an idea became
more commonplace.

There's probably some much cooler stuff I'm forgetting, but hey it makes
perfect sense he'd be part of an island buying crew.

~~~
fibertbh
Off-topic, I know, but are we calling 2008 "2k8" now? Is last decade the 2k's?

~~~
chaosmatic
I believe the practice starts with resistors, and because of differences in
use of . and , and the fact they are hard to tell apart, the units are placed
in stead of the . ie 1,500 ohm -> 1k5 ohm

~~~
Ives
Exactly, which means 2k8 is actually 2800, and not 2008.

~~~
javert
Knowing nothing about resistors, though, 2k8 intuitively means 2008. So I like
this way of doing it.

~~~
ZoF
Really? Because I would prefer "2008" to "2k8"... It's literally one more
character...

~~~
javert
For written communication, yes. For verbal communication, the 2000s can be a
bit burdensome to pronounce.

------
jacquesm
Lots of widowmakers there judging by the pictures, better be careful. One
thing you learn quickly when you live remote is that the nearest hospital is
_very_ far away both in space and in time and stuff that is routine in a city
can get serious (or even kill you) when you're living remote.

Still, congratulations, I can really relate to how you guys feel.

In case there are more island enthousiasts here:

[http://www.privateislandsonline.com/regions/canada](http://www.privateislandsonline.com/regions/canada)

~~~
tynan
We're actually pretty close to a hospital. Five minutes to shore by boat and
maybe 20 minutes to a hospital. Didn't see any scary spiders, but will keep an
eye out next time I'm up there!

~~~
jacquesm
Widowmaker, not widow spider. See, what you don't know could kill you ;) Spend
some time in an unmaintained bit of forest and you'll get to know plenty of
these things.

Five minutes to shore when the weather is good and your engine starts. Really,
please heed my advice and make sure each and every one of you knows how to do
basic first aid, I hope you're never going to be in a position to use it but
when you do you'll be happy you took the time and trouble. First purchase: a
very good first aid kit.

This is all not to piss on your parade but because I lived in a pretty remote
area for 2 years and have a little bit of experience that might be relevant to
your situation.

~~~
intenex
Thanks for the heads up! We'll def be sure to get on that and get some basic
first aid training across the board + med kit on site. Any other advice/tips
we should be aware of?

~~~
jacquesm
You're welcome.

Basic engine repair skills, something to patch up your boat in case you spring
a leak, a basic comms kit+genny so you can call up the coast guard or a
passing boat if you should need them (assuming your island is out of cell
phone reach), cache of freshwater, fuel, waterproofed matches and a couple of
days worth of tin cans in case you ever get cut off. Halifax coast in winter
can be, how to phrase this, impressive, to say the least.

Mind you, the real kick is when you _are_ isolated but there is an additional
degree of risk there. No need to get your appendix out as a precaution just
yet ;)

All of this is assuming you're on the salty side of things, if you're in a
lake it's a lot more relaxed but you will still need to take basic precautions
and you'll need to be extremely careful with what you do with your wastes
(you'd need to be just as careful in the ocean with that for ethical reasons
but there will be fewer watching eyes so you can drop the 'extremely').

~~~
npsimons
As a SAR guy, I can say the big big thing is the first aid (plus CPR). It
sounds like you're relatively close to civilization, but realize that if
someone has to come to help you, they're likely not going to be there within
the Golden Hour
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_%28medicine%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_%28medicine%29)).
That, and just being prepared in general (ten essentials:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials)
and knowing how to use them), having skills, and being wary. I've seen even
well-seasoned people end up in bad situations; the best way to survive seems
to be to avoid the bad situations. Also, never go alone.

~~~
philbarr
Reading all the advice that is being given in comments around this thread, it
would seem the best advice would be: get someone who knows what they're
talking about in the local area and get their advice; like the parent poster
SAR but that also knows about dangers closer to home.

Maybe you could make a weekend of it for your families or something.

~~~
npsimons
My SAR group actually teaches a class where one of our stated upfront goals is
to prevent people from having to be rescued. Depending on the area, the local
SAR group might be too busy putting out fires to do similar (it takes a lot of
planning and prep).

------
scrumper
Congratulations! That's a fantastic project and a very cool retreat. I'm
curious about:

\- Ownership structure. With 10 of you, how have you prepared for people
falling out or wanting out?

\- What are you allowed to build on it?

\- How do you access it? Do you have to pay a boatman to take you out there?

~~~
tynan
It's an LLC. We have bylaws to deal with people wanting out, but we
intentionally make it very difficult (island llc gets 1st right of refusal,
every member gets a right of refusal after that, and we must approve of any
buyer). The idea is that it's an investment in utility, not in dollars. One
bad person on the island could ruin everyone's experience, so we guard against
that.

We're going to be building next year, so we still have lots of research to do.
It appears that anything permanent like a cabin would require a permit, but
that yurts / heavy duty tents / sheds / etc wouldn't.

A neighbor on the mainland has offered us dock space and gave us a couple
rides this trip. We also bought an Intex Excursion 5 off Amazon which was
serviceable but really difficult to navigate in wind. We'll buy a real boat
next year.

HN is throttling my posts, so it may take a while to answer everything. I
appreciate all the comments and questions.

~~~
300bps
Can you vote someone off the island?

~~~
tynan
Yes, but only one person per week. Should have it all to myself in 9 weeks if
everything goes according to plan...

------
lutusp
Quote: "Over the years we'll build up the island, doing most of the work
ourselves. We'll build a communal building with a shower, kitchen, lounge, and
bathrooms. Each owner of the island gets to pick a spot on which to build
their own little structure to sleep in. Together we'll build infrastructure,
gardens, a fire pit, and whatever else we can come up with."

So, not counting significant others, ten people sharing a five-acre island.
That's 1/2 acre per person except that not all five acres will be flat,
buildable land, and you will have to sort out who lives where, without
friction.

This works when you're young, before you start thinking about issues like
privacy and personal space. By the time you and your friends are 30 years old,
the island will likely be a distant and probably bitter memory.

I speak as someone who lived through the 1960s American back-to-the land,
communal-living, private-property-is-a-crime phase.

~~~
tynan
I'm already over 30, as are many members of the group. I was extremely
selective on who I invited, and they're all people I trust completely. There
will be issues in the future, but we've come up with rules to deal with them.

Also, as noted below, none of us are planning on living there full time-- just
visiting over the summer, hopefully all at the same time.

~~~
lutusp
> I'm already over 30 ...

Then I envy your youthful outlook. :)

By the time I was 30 I had had enough of communal living for several
lifetimes.

~~~
tynan
Haha, thanks. I had a great time communal living in school. Everyone involved
in the island is trustworthy, fair, reasonable, etc., so I think it will be
good. We also outlined ways to deal with disputes in advance.

~~~
menubar
Hey! I've got the Stick! It's MY turn to speak!

------
raldi
What is it about islands that gives them their mystique? I don't think a post
entitled, "My friends and I bought a five-acre plot of land near Halifax"
would have garnered as much attention.

~~~
tynan
I would have never guessed that it would, either. I was pretty shocked to see
it here when I loaded up HN on my phone.

When I was inviting friends to be a part of this, there was a big divide...
half of them LOVED the idea and felt like an island was something special (as
I do), and others just saw it as some difficult-to-access land. I've had a
tough time articulating exactly why an island seems special to me.

~~~
CodeCube
Are you going to run internet access to it (or put in satellite)?

~~~
tynan
Yes, there is strong LTE and HSPA+ service there, and Canada has some decent
PAYG plans.

~~~
elsurudo
That's news to me (I live in Canada, although in Ontario).

~~~
tynan
I think the plan my friend was using was Rogers iPad plan... data only, but it
was really reasonable.

------
patja
I am curious about how and whether building or environment impact codes come
into play with this kind of remote private island in Canada. Things like
septic systems, building a dock or anything near the shoreline, and even
putting in a mooring buoy can be significant challenges to get approved in
many US jurisdictions.

~~~
tynan
I'm curious about this, too. We've done a little research, and it seems like
building non-permanent things like sheds and yurts will be fine, but docks,
septic, permanent buildings that cost over $5k will need permits.

Then again, there are some pretty janky home-made docks in the bay that seem
to have been there for a while.

~~~
patja
If it is anything like in the US, old stuff is grandfathered when things
tighten up. This is why it is often advisable to look for property that
already has a dock or other permanent structures on or near the shoreline. It
is quite likely that none of that janky stuff could be built today.

~~~
wyck
This is exactly how it works in most of Canada. The new laws are strict to an
extreme measure, in some cases you are not even allowed to add a window to a
wall that is facing water (reflection and glare issues) or cut down any fauna
within 60 feet of the waters edge. Docks usually have a permit but are limited
to a specific size, and you cannot alter the general structure of
grandfathered objects.

~~~
itsybitsycoder
I think you mean flora... and even then I'm guessing it only applies to trees
and large shrubs. I'm Canadian and all the anti-cutting laws I've heard about
only restrict you from removing plants over a certain size. So you can remove
saplings and small shrubs, but if you wait for them to get big it'll be too
late.

------
intenex
Hey all - co-owner here with Tynan. He tried to reply to all your comments but
you guys left so many he got throttled by HN and now can't post. Shame on you
all.

Just kidding - but really, he's throttled atm. He'll be back to reply to posts
when he can!

~~~
vinhboy
Why would you guys buy the island without seeing it first? Were you guys just
really excited?

~~~
tynan
We didn't transfer the money until seeing it. As the commenter below said, it
hit our metrics, so we figured that barring an infestation of wild tigers or
something, it was worth buying. So we went up, camped for a night to check it
out, and wired the money the next morning.

~~~
zheng
Wouldn't an infestation of wild tigers make it _more_ worth buying? =)

------
hoopism
How do you intend to prevent locals from "visiting" your island when you are
away? Once someone realizes there's an awesome free island with lots of cool
stuff to play with you might find it prone to vandalizing.

I've had similar romantic notions about owning an island (we kayak a lot). But
the reality is that every vacant island IS your island. There's plenty of
islands < 1 hour away that are beautiful and completely uninhabited. Hopefully
someday I will come upon yours... sounds nice.

<pessimism>I hope it works out for you but taxes go up, structures get
vandalized, local permits are annoying and 10 hours is a long friggen drive.
And the fastest way to end a friendship is to joint own something.</pessimism>

~~~
yannk
Why do you assume he'd want to prevent locals from visiting?

~~~
hoopism
You never met a bored teenager... have you? Of course it is Canada... maybe
they aren't as awful.

~~~
yannk
Every bored teenager I've met was absolutely respectful of signs and,
authority in general...

------
shawnee_
_Over the years we 'll build up the island, doing most of the work ourselves.
We'll build a communal building with a shower, kitchen, lounge, and bathrooms.
Each owner of the island gets to pick a spot on which to build their own
little structure to sleep in. Together we'll build infrastructure, gardens, a
fire pit, and whatever else we can come up with._

A couple years ago I bought some rural land with the idea that something like
this. . . something I think of as "ecosteading" is going to become a trend of
sorts. The idea that I'm working on (and have already applied to YC and a
bunch of other incubators with) is actually right along this line: a platform
for people to buy and sell land, exchange ideas for ecological homesteading,
even build out a platform for more intelligent urban planning. When it's done
from the "ground up" (literally), there are all kind of future headaches that
can be avoided.

Imagine if the Hyperloop or the California high speed rail had been able to be
laid down _before_ most of the development around this insanely populated
state took place. Population growth is exponential; it's inevitable that we're
going to need smarter ways of transporting people and consumables. The key is
figuring out where these new hubs of population are going. Like-minded people
congregate; and this idea gives them a way to do it with others.

If this sounds like something interesting/exciting, I am kinda sorta looking
for people to work with. Research it, tell me what you can offer (it's Rails!)
and what you think of what's done so far:
[https://angel.co/ecosteader](https://angel.co/ecosteader) (email only please)

------
tynan
Hey guys-- this is my post. I'm flattered this made it to HN! Will be
answering questions in comments for a couple hours if any come up.

~~~
MartinCron
No question... just want to say that this is really cool. I recently took a
Seaplane from Vancouver BC to Victoria BC and shocked by how many beautiful
tiny islands there were out there and wondered what it would be like to try to
get one. Now I know.

~~~
Kluny
Those islands cost in the millions... but there are some sweet ones up north
that are cheaper than a downtown Victoria condo.

------
dhughes
> caught wild crabs...

You may want to check with the DFO (Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans) on that.
Licenses are sold for many types of shellfish and you want have fishers with
licenses for crab, clam, oysters etc. near the island. [http://www.pac.dfo-
mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shell...](http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-
gp/rec/species-especes/shelltable-tableaucoquille-eng.htm)

Recently one lobster fisherman (farther off shore) was caught cutting trap
lines and the owner of the lines shot him a few times and then ran him over in
his boat. Fishing is taken very seriously in this region, it's all some people
have done for many generations.

Other than that you should be fine.

~~~
tynan
VERY useful site-- thank you!

~~~
papercrane
Those are Pacific water regulations. This site,
[http://novascotia.ca/fish/](http://novascotia.ca/fish/) is what you'd want.

Just in general in Nova Scotia you don't need any license for non-commercial
fishing in tidal areas (still need to observe bag limits though.) You do need
a license for any fishing in fresh waters.

If you're hand picking crabs you're fine. Just don't set any traps or snares,
but you might want to check to see if they are safe to eat. Sometimes the
close areas for shellfish harvesting due to food safety concerns.

The murder that dhughes is referencing had more to do with it then them just
catching someone cutting their lines, there was a long history between the
victim and the boat crew.

~~~
dhughes
Whoops! Didn't see that, good catch ;)

------
ailox
This is awesome.

I always wanted to do something like this as long as I can remember, build
something (more or less) self-sustaining in the middle of nowhere to feel
fully independent. I am really curious to what extent the author plans on
living there? Will there be houses next to the communal building? Solar
Panels? A Generator? An on-site well?

It is this Idea of your own small ecosystem which makes Minecraft so
attractive. This is real life Minecraft and I hope to do something like this
one day.

Edit: Just to add some interesting Project: There is open source hardware for
everything you need to build your own village in the "Global Village
Construction Set"[1]

\---

[1]
[http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Constructio...](http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Construction_Set)

~~~
tynan
Thanks!

At first it will be a summer-only thing, but we hope over 5-10 years to make
it sustainable all year round. We want to use it mainly as a place to work
together and get away from cities.

Next summer we will be putting up a 30' yurt, a huge battery bank, and a
generator. Water is the hardest, so we'll probably have to catch rain and use
a desalinator.

Oh-- we have awesome LTE and 4G coverage there, too!

~~~
isaacn
Congrats on your purchase! Having 4G internet is a very nice addition to your
infrastructure, and critical in this day and age. Even if you want to
disconnect for extended periods of time, you still have to pay your bills and
taxes.

Speaking from experience, solar panels and car batteries work very well to
supply a minimal amount of power for daily use (LED lights, charging cell
phones and laptops, etc), but a generator will likely be needed for the
occasional heavy equipment use. I'm less of a fan of windmills, but they have
their place.

Water is indeed the most important infrastructure element to get right, but
the solution you go with often depends heavily with your power choices. It's
one thing to leave a desalinization system running 24x7 and maintain it, but
it's a whole different story if you need something that can be shut down and
restarted several months later. Maintenance and long-term reliability become
important factors. Maybe you'll get lucky and find you can drill a well for
fresh water, but the size of your island makes me think that is unlikely.

Other fun things to think about: plumbing, septic systems, waste disposal, hot
water systems, lights, cooking, and refrigeration.

Then there is always the debate of redundancy vs. simplicity. and the real
cost of maintaining an often fragile infrastructure.

I am very curious to hear more about your progresses in building out your
island infrastructure and have subscribed to your blog.

~~~
tynan
Thanks! I actually have an RV with solar and LED, so I'm very familiar with
the awesomeness of running off the grid. I'm not sure we'll get enough solar
to make it cost efficient, but we're still looking into it.

I haven't done enough research into desalination-- I had no idea that shutting
it down for a while is a problem. Why is that?

We may also do rainwater recovery + filtration for drinking/cooking, and salt
for showering. Worst case we have to bring water over every time and shower in
salt.

Planning on doing propane or wood to heat water, propane for refrigeration and
cooking.

Thanks for subscribing! We'll be going out in the spring to do some more work
and will definitely keep people updated on progress.

~~~
jonah
My extended family owns a cabin on a tiny island on a lake in Wisconsin.

* You're right - having a house on an island is cooler than having a house on the shore. :)

* Probably not applicable to you, but when they need to move heavy things (Backhoe to dredge the dock, materials, etc.) to the island, they drive them in over the frozen lake in midwinter.

* The power comes in over an underwater cable. Something you might want to look into.

------
epenn
_Sometimes it 's just a matter of thinking outside the box and doing a little
research, rather than assuming it's impossible or impractical._

Good advice in general too, not just when buying an island.

------
jimktrains2
You could probably let a lot of kids (college students) have a lot of fun
surveying it. I would seriously consider approaching a local college or
university if you'd want.

Bonus is that you'll get some good maps out of it:)

~~~
tynan
Awesome idea, thanks!

------
kamakazizuru
"I bought an Island" ... on a blog about minimalism...

~~~
tynan
Yeah, but it's my ONLY island.

~~~
intenex
For now*. Don't forget the artillery for imperializing neighboring islands.

------
snitko
I wonder if indeed it's completely out of any state's control or it's
technically still in a state's jurisdiction. I wonder what would happen if
someone bought an island and started hiring people and making money there and
not paying any taxes. My guess is that government agents would suddenly become
very interested in that piece of land and would pay a visit.

~~~
chollida1
I'm not sure I understand why being an island is different from any other
land.

It's still under the tax jurisdiction of the Province and Country.

How is this different when I replace the word island with acreage or farm?

~~~
drcode
Your neighbor won't knock on your door and complain your dog is barking too
much.

~~~
stcredzero
It's also much easier to defend in a "without rule of law" (WROL) situation.
You've raised the bar for just getting to your place. Short of scuba gear,
there's no way to approach a prepared island undetected. This even goes for
the dark of night if the defenders are well prepared. Would be invaders would
probably also be approaching without cover against rifle fire, unless they are
hiding behind the engine block of a fairly large sized boat.

There are some disadvantages that come with that. A determined group could
keep you trapped on your island more easily as well.

------
samstave
A few years ago I was looking into this as well, but in the Philippines --
there were a ton of amazingly beautiful and affordable islands in the Palawan
region... the problem was getting stuff/services onto the island.

Getting power, water, sewer made the cost extremely high. Even with
Solar/Septic - getting equipment and suplpies was just far too much for me to
undertake and afford.

So CONGRATS on succeeding. How much for an 11th person share in the Island?

Have you setup an "infrastructure" fund where all ten of you contribute a
monthly amount - and then spend it annually on one big buy for the Island?

I'd recommend you see about purchasing used shipping containers and having
them barged over to the island: this will let you store stuff - and if you're
crafty enough, there are tons of examples of building housing from them
online.

Start planting seeds of edible plants all over the island.

Digging a well might prove to be a bit costly...

~~~
brador
Do you have more precise details on the costs involved with that Philippine
island idea? What kind of numbers?

~~~
samstave
This was in ~2003...

There were islands in Palawan fro sale at the time that were uttery perfect
for ~$35,000 USD - large enough for a house, had a really nice beach etc...

The problem was that in the northern part of Palawan, you either need to ship
from Manilla, or fly stuff in.

The islands were too small/rocky to be able to have a well, so water was an
issue - as was power - you'd need to basically have solar/wind/generator
(which meant boating in fuel regularly).

So - I don't have exact numbers - but it made buying an Island for ~35K really
mean that you'd need ~$250K+ to really accomplish something.

~~~
jpatokal
Also, buying an island in a 3rd world country is an entirely different
proposition from doing it in a place like Canada. For example, keeping your
stuff safe becomes a major concern, especially if you're planning to only
visit every now and then; you pretty much need to hire a permanent caretaker.

Also, in the Phils (and most all Asian countries) foreigners can't buy land
directly, so you need to use various workarounds of dubious legality like
setting up a corporation with a local citizen as director and an undated,
presigned letter of resignation, etc.

And you're still screwed if somebody in power doesn't like what you're doing.
There was a bizarre case a while back with some Finnish guys setting up camp
on a remote Indonesian island (with go-ahead from the locals, mind you) that
eventually ended up with the army showing up to kick them out with lots of
chest-thumping about Indonesian sovereignty, but my Google-fu is failing me
right now...

------
maga
What about visa? Do I get some kind of resident visa if I buy an island in
Canada?

~~~
_delirium
No, not any more than you get a residence visa if you buy a house or a farm.
It's just a piece of property, and property ownership in a country doesn't
typically confer immigration status. If you're American, you can visit Canada
(but not work there) for up to 6 months a year visa-free. Otherwise you need
to apply for a visa through the usual process.

------
wyck
As a Canadian I would not have bought an island unless it was near a major
urban center and thus has the appeal of being urban and country at the same
time, or somewhere warm ..aka not in Canada.

If you just want to rough it, you can lease Crown Land, fees are basically
nothing if you're willing to do the paperwork, most leases last from 10-99
years, some of these leases might be open to foreigners (not sure, might need
a legitimate business).

Even better start of an amatuer prospecting company, you could probably lease
an island the size of manhattan, again for a very low fee. You won't own the
land but 99 years is usually enough.

Or you could just drive really far into the bush, no one will notice.

~~~
Stately
source for that?

~~~
wyck
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land#Canada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land#Canada)
[http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/crownlan.htm](http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/crownlan.htm)

Each province regulates it's own Crown land: BC:
[http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/link_land.html](http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/link_land.html)
NB:
[http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/services/services_renderer...](http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/services/services_renderer.200832.Crown_Lands_-
_Camp_Lot_Lease_.html)

The rest are a short Google away, some more sparse territories like the Yukon
and Northwest Territories are more lax than say Ontario.

------
GoldfishCRM
In sweden you dont have to buy an island. All the island are free to camp at.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam)

~~~
henrikschroder
My family has a summer house out in the Stockholm Archipelago, it's on one of
the tens of thousands of islands, it takes an hour to get there from home, and
on our island there are about 60 houses, and there's ok infrastructure
including public transportation to get there.

If you want more solitude, you just take the boat and go out to the more
remote ones, there's nothing special or magical or mystical about "owning an
island" to me, since that's how I spent my childhood summers.

Then I realized that archipelagos are pretty rare, which keeps the concept out
of reach for most people.

------
tocomment
Does anyone have tips for buying cheap land in general for camping and maybe
building a cabin? I've always been curious to do that but I've no idea where
to start.

------
sspiff
I was (much like the author) always interested in getting an island (still
am.)

I also gravitate toward Canada when looking for an island, because you can get
fairly large islands for much less money than lets say in the Caribbean. Of
course, the climate is a lot less appealing.

I always wonder though, how expensive would it be to get something built on an
island? I imagine getting building materials and construction equipment onto a
forested island can be tricky and expensive.

------
lifeisstillgood
I was struck by the "climate does not matter" part - I have always assumed
Canada will be one of the 22nd century's big winners in climate change terms
(lots of nice melted permafrost agricultural land and an extra 6 degrees would
be balmy)

the upshot of this is I assumed land north of Toronto is always going to be a
good buy for grand children. am I thinking too small?

~~~
jacquesm
I still have 100 acres for sale there if you're interested ;)

~~~
tocomment
Why are you selling?

~~~
jacquesm
Because we no longer live there.

------
phogster
Shame on me for thinking this but, any chance of internet connectivity there?

~~~
tynan
I should have mentioned this in the original post-- we actually have HSPA+ and
LTE coverage! Super lucky, as this is the only utility that we couldn't easily
do ourselves.

------
rektide
Investors and builders, please remember that your property's value is sinking.
Sinking, sinking under the waves of the rising sea.

------
mehmehshoe
I wonder if a small heard of goats/sheep could be self sustaining out there
and help with clearing some of the vegetation? Out here in fire country,
people with large acreage will rent sheep from farmers to come and eat the
brush over a month or so. I saw some at Sears Point once and I have to say the
critters did a better job than a large mowing machine.

~~~
contingencies
_small heard of goats..._

Nice. You could produce organic goat cheese - island chevre - _chèvre de l
'île_.

------
herge
My family has a cottage in the backwaters of Ontario (although ~one hour from
Ottawa). It's on a lake, but very off the grid, without electricity or running
water. We have propane stoves, refrigerators, lights, etc.

It's a bit less remote than an island, seeing as you can take a car into town,
and the stray hunter still comes through once in a while.

------
Nomlab
Tynan and friends, congrats. First thought: build cool treehouses.

[PS Tynan: Hope this HN juice finally gets you accepted into YCombinator.]

~~~
tynan
Thank you! I was hoping to build a treehouse, but a hurricane wiped out most
of the big trees in 2003. Now it's all 6-20' tall Balsam Firs, which are too
small to make treehouses in. Maybe in 20 years...

------
lazyeye
Tynan you may not be aware of this but there is actually a word for this. You
are an "islomaniac". Highly recommend this book which is a true story about
what Id consider to be the ultimate islomaniac:-

An Island To Oneself by Tom Neale
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Neale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Neale)
[http://www.amazon.com/An-Island-Oneself-Tom-
Neale/dp/0918024...](http://www.amazon.com/An-Island-Oneself-Tom-
Neale/dp/0918024765/)

Probably one of my favourite books actually.

------
TamDenholm
Is there any site or organisations that are around for the purpose of buying
these kind of things? Kind of kickstarter but more larger payments for a
percentage of a large purchase? I suppose kind of like a timeshare, but not a
rip off?

I've come across 1 thing like this myself, which is a car club, you pay £10k
and you get X days per year to drive the cars in their selection but you also
own something like 5% of the company that owns the cars. I'd be very
interested in other kind of group buying things like this.

------
jcooper2
[http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/mavuva-island-
lo...](http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/mavuva-island-lots)

Yeah that looks like a tool :)

~~~
bm1362
I was looking through some of the listings and saw an ad for a tax haven. I
guess that's the target audience?

------
thejulielogan
Step 1. Buy Island Step 2. Build treehouse Step 3. Swiss Family Robinson Step
4. Thwart Pirates Step 5. Become a host on AirBnB. "Lovely Family Getaway"

------
y14
Cool. For how much? :)

~~~
tynan
5 figures, not 6....

~~~
scarmig
Total or per?

~~~
junker37
I would wager a guess that's it's total. He mentions island prices similar to
land prices.

------
meerita
Correct me but you buy an island but you're not able to make you're own
country in there. You're still under Canada's rule I guess.

~~~
jonknee
It depends entirely on the size and power of your military.

~~~
meerita
How so? Then I can buy any kind of land and claim it as my own :)

~~~
lorax
Yes you can, you still have to have a powerful enough military to defend your
claim. In fact, given a large and powerful enough military you don't have to
buy the land before claiming it.

------
erict19
I'd thought you appreciate this: "two brothers inherited one of the Hawaiian
islands, Niihau, and have turned down all offers to sell including $1 billion
from the U.S. government"
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Robinson_(environmentalis...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Robinson_\(environmentalist\))

------
snowwrestler
That's awesome! I have a feeling that you are going to get some neighbors
pretty quickly as we all start looking now.

For the love of Mother Nature, please hook up with a landscape architect so
that you make sustainable decisions about where to site buildings, where to
cut trails, etc. It doesn't take much vegetation loss to start some nasty
erosion.

~~~
tynan
I hope so. If anyone buys an island in Nova Scotia, get in touch!

We're leaving all trees around the edge to prevent erosion, and are clearing
very minimally. Will definitely be getting some expert advice before making
big decisions, though.

~~~
brianshaler
Do you know if there are any other islands in the area that are for sale? Any
resources aside from privateislandsonline?

------
southpaw1227
What process are you using for finances? A budget meeting to agree on what to
chip in for future years and for what those monies go to?

Did you all sign something already that talks about distribution plans if and
when one of the group passes away?

Any plans to enforce "no trespassing" when none of the group is there?

Congrats, by the way!

~~~
tynan
Thanks! We have a bunch of rules to cover things like this.

Everyone is expecting to pitch in another $1000-2000 next year to build a
communal yurt, battery bank, get a boat, etc.

We're told by locals that trespassing isn't a problem. We could put motion
detectors / cameras if necessary, but I doubt it will be.

Thanks!

------
tpurves
Not all Canadian Islands are so cheap. Here's a single family island for 14.4
Million in Muskoka -
[http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=133556...](http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13355666&PidKey=-351405494)

~~~
orenmazor
Muskoka is right in cottage country in Ontario. huge, huge difference from an
island near Edmundston.

------
ctdonath
Perfect scenario for the "tiny house" (Google it) concept. Decent sized land,
but rocky & woody makes it hard to build anything of substantial size, and
multiple owners/occupants suggests multiple smaller dwellings to fit without
getting in each others' way.

------
tocomment
What kind of legal structure would you use for Something like this? Did you
use a lawyer? What kind?

~~~
tynan
It's an LLC. We have a lawyer as a member of the group, so he drafted our
purchase and sale agreement and our operating agreement. We had to hire a
local lawyer, too, to draft an affidavit and to register the deed.

~~~
mkopinsky
If you're willing to share, I (and I'm sure others here as well) would be
curious to get some kind of sense of how you wrote out the agreements.

~~~
jrodshibuya
I'm the lawyer that Tynan mentioned, and the proud part-owner of the island.
There are excellent standard form agreements available for free online.
Essentially you just search for the relevant jurisdiction (i.e. the State
where you're incorporating)and "standard form multiple member LLC operating
agreement". Then you edit the agreement to fit your circumstances, deleting
and adding as required. Standard form purchase and sale agreements are also
easy to find and don't require much amendment. Pay a local title search
company to check the title (ensures that there are no outstanding
mortgages/covenants on it, that the seller actually owns it etc. You'll need
to get a local lawyer to execute the deed, but that doesn't cost much. It
helps to have a legal background, but an agreement is just a shared
understanding of the meaning of words, so not too difficult.

------
mkelley82
You are living out a dream/fantasy held by many of us and obtained by few.
Please do keep us informed on the awesomeness that is to come on Tynan's
Island.

Also, definitely look into the permaculture thing. The Zombies Are Coming! and
you gotta be prepared. =)

------
Jugurtha
This is amazing ! It crossed my mind but didn't put thoughts on how to
actually buy an island.

Apparently this one cost less than 100k (which can't even buy an apartment in
a crappy place). I shared the link with a couple of friends.

------
TomGullen
Have you checked rising sea levels and how that could affect your land
holding?

------
cipherzero
I'm curious now what it takes to become a sovereign nation, and issue your own
passports, which will be recognized by other countries. Does anyone have any
experience/knowledge with that? :)

------
swalsh
I'm reminded of the Reddit Fantasy:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/redditisland](http://www.reddit.com/r/redditisland)

------
jmacd
Welcome to Nova Scotia

~~~
tynan
Thank you! Some of my ancestry is from there, but it's the first time I've
visited. I was really struck by how friendly everyone is, and how beautiful
the area is. Halifax was a cool city, too.

------
rdmcfee
The gulf islands in BC are beautiful and much nicer in terms of climate. The
San Juan islands are the southern tip of the gulf islands. Similar prices.

------
Gravityloss
Looks like the forest was recently cut and there's just a lot of saplings. But
within some decades, it's going to look much better!

------
herbig
I'd like to echo others and say that this is indeed awesome.

At 5 acres, are you concerned at all about deforesting it too much over time?

~~~
lutusp
I have some experience in this area. If ten people rely on firewood for heat,
and if they live there in the winter, and if the island is heavily forested,
the trees will last maybe five years before any further cutting will start
eating into property value and privacy.

------
stcredzero
Back in the early 90's I ran across an island in a lake in British Columbia
that was supposedly priced at $35k.

------
samuraimodak
To create a vantage point I hope you will not chop down the forest. Anyway it
is your island. Congratulations :)

------
steveplace
Can't wait for the airbnb listing.

------
CmonDev
Twenty years later you will be able to show the exact spot to your kids. In
the middle of the ocean.

------
sylvinus
One question: weren't you afraid not to have visited the island before you
made an offer?

~~~
tynan
Not really. Did as much research as I could, and most of the value of the
island to me is having a group of friends with an island to build up by our
own designs.

Also, we did check it out before wiring the money. If it was burnt down or
something really bad, we wouldn't have bought it.

------
mikeburrelljr
What's the going rate for an island these days?

------
13throwaway
Here's an interesting link.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation)

------
ffrryuu
How are you going to get electricity?

~~~
NovemberWest
Oh, you cannot be serious. Generator. Wind power. Solar. This is increasingly
easy to provide on a small scale in the middle of nowhere.

~~~
ffrryuu
It doesn't look like there is much sun in that area. And generators are
extremely expensive to run, how are you getting fuel to that island?

Not sure about wind on that island either.

~~~
NovemberWest
Then hydro, which is very do-able on a small scale. Do I seriously need to
list all possible options here?

~~~
ffrryuu
If money is no object...

~~~
NovemberWest
A quick google suggests micro hydro can be done for as little as $1k. And once
yiu have your own power plant, you won't have monthly electric bills. Here is
some info: [http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/micro-hydro-power-
pr...](http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/micro-hydro-power-pros-and-
cons/)

Poverty is often very expensive and often involves the cheapest upfront cost
but frequently leads to high lifetime costs. So I think your argument is
ridiculous. Energy independence is often more about mindset and lifestyle
choices than budget. I hsbe never been in a position to pursue it, but I never
viewed that as being about dollar cost per se.

------
lukethomas
Do you plan on staying the winter?

~~~
tynan
I hope to some day have it visitable in the winter, but not expecting it to be
ready for that any time soon. The idea is to start with a cool private camp
site, and eventually build it into a year-round sustainable retreat.

------
jyf1987
i am interesting of how to develop this island would they got a solar power
grid?

------
joshdance
Definitely a dream of mine.

------
NDizzle
Needs tree houses asap!!!

------
corresation
It sounds like you guys really thought this through (with the LLC, etc),
however I can't shake the feeling that you're going to find this a bit like
owning a boat: it sounds like much more fun before you actually do it.

Five acres is slightly more land than I have (in the exurbs of Toronto), and
is almost certainly much more awkward, with less usable space. I mention that
because I can't imagine trying to facilitate the desires of 10 different
owners on such a plot, and the practical limitations of such a space will
become quickly apparent. Notions of being sovereign and all of that seem
really strange -- you fall under just as many regulations (if not, in some
ways, more) than a plot on the mainland. Assuming that you will fly under the
radar is a dangerous gambit.

To visit this place you rely upon the graces of what is to you a foreign
country. A simple DUI or possession charge in the US == barred from Canada.
And so on.

Totally get the thought (I have bid on various large parcels of land
throughout Ontario), though, just think 5 acres is just much too small.

~~~
eldavido
I can't see the appeal of this at all. Random list of why:

Inevitable fights/headaches when one person wants out -- yes, you planned for
it, but it's still a hassle.

All the pains of homeownership (leaky roofs, pipes, HVAC problems, etc.) x
1000 due to difficulty of getting a construction crew to the island.

Lack of a police force to enforce basic property rights against
squatters/hunters/other "intruders" with different ideas about the meaning of
"private propety" than you

Water: is this all being brought to the island, or do you have a plan for on-
island desalination? Are you prepared to regularly service the desalination
plant and/or haul giant jugs of water to the island constantly?

Medical care: when someone breaks a leg, steps on a sharp stick, etc., where
is the nearest hospital?

This article reminds me why we live in a market economy, because tastes and
preferences differ, and there's no way I'd buy this, but great if you guys
want to.

~~~
auctiontheory
I'm not saying you're "wrong," but that attitude will certainly cut out much
of the fun in life.

~~~
zorbo
Doesn't sound like he or she considers it "fun". Different tastes I guess. To
me, all the "problems" mentioned are the whole reason I'd love to undertake
something like this.

------
elf25
just blog about this - a lot! Congrats on building your dream! I hope it works
out great. 10 different people with ten visions have to come together... wow.
Could be real fun or...

------
burgerz
Why not just disclose the price?

~~~
dsuth
Probably because it's none of your business. Seriously, what could you get
from a firm figure that you couldn't get from the generalisation of between 10
- 100k?

~~~
burgerz
Why not just answer the question? Why all the secrecy surrounding cost when
one could easily find out how much something costs? If somebody asks, it's
because they are curious of the value. 10-100k is a huge range that most
islands would fit into.

------
Nicholas_C
I hate to be the Debbie Downer but this seems like something that feels really
cool and fun at first but then loses it's novelty after a while and then gets
forgotten about.

~~~
mcv
If they cleaned it up and improved it a bit, they might be able to sell it at
a profit.

~~~
burgerz
So everything is about money, not doing something adventurous and exciting.
zzzzz.

~~~
mcv
No, it means there's a backup plan.

The complaint was that it might only turn out to be adventurous and exciting
for a little while. My point is merely that you can always get out again and
spend the same money on something new and adventurous and exciting.

------
machbio
With the Global Warming upon the Human Race, it will be stupid to buy the
Islands which might not last forever... All the Islands that are available
look like they might submerge within another 5 years.. paying those exuberant
rates for islands is stupidity..

Look for Islands with a Hillview, that might work out..

~~~
lutusp
> With the Global Warming upon the Human Race, it will be stupid to buy the
> Islands which might not last forever. All the Islands that are available
> look like they might submerge within another 5 years.

Not five years. Sea level rise at present is about 3 millimeters per year.
Over five years that becomes 15 millimeters, or 1.5 centimeters, or about 1/2
inch.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise)

"From 1950 to 2009, measurements show an average annual rise in sea level of
1.7 ± 0.3 mm per year, with satellite data showing a rise of 3.3 ± 0.4 mm per
year from 1993 to 2009 ..."

This is not to diminish the seriousness of global warming, only to put it in
perspective.

