

Ask HN: Any good Macbook Air alternatives? - puredemo


======
blinkingled
I actually switched from 2010 Air to X220 after the 2011 Airs came out.

Needed a Windows machine and did not like where Lion was going - with 2011 MBA
I would have no choice but to run Lion and Windows with half baked support
(AHCI, other minor annoyances)

The X220 fits the bill -

1) Display is good - it's IPS panel with good viewing angles and great
brightness (Make sure you opt for Premium HD display)

2) Battery life is great - 6-7 hrs for regular use is no big deal at all with
the normal battery. Go with 9 cell for little extra thickness and you are
talking 9 hrs.

3) It is fast even with the 7200RPM HDD - resume from sleep is fastest I've
seen for a Windows laptop with regular HDD and pre desktop fingerprint
authentication saves you more time.

4) Legendary Thinkpad keyboard - love it!

5) Fast regular voltage i5/i7 CPUs - not undervolted ones.

6) Does not get noisy or hot even under full load - the i7 models throttle a
bit more but are still great.

7) Can have 8GB RAM - big deal for me as I run VMs. Not an option with the
Air.

The only issue really is the tiny trackpad. It gets the job done but is
nowhere near the nice big glassy one on the Air. If you were into Linux X220
runs Ubuntu 11.04 great out of box - added benefit.

~~~
sgt
I did a search for X220 and found this:

[http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-
thinkpad-x220...](http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-
thinkpad-x220.aspx)

Are you serious? This doesn't look like anything that may compete with Macbook
Air in my book. Not to seem too negative, but the overall design is
reminiscent of old laptops from the year 2001. (Typical for PC laptop
designers).

~~~
jarek
Do you buy your laptops primarily to look at them, or to use them?

~~~
loupgarou21
One of my clients is swapping all of their sales people out of their windows
laptops and into MacBook Airs because the sales people just need office and a
web browser and the airs are far more impressive looking.

I have another client where the sales people have windows laptops, but they're
not allowed to bring them to client meetings, instead they have to bring their
iPads.

Sometimes form _is_ more important than function.

~~~
tintin
It can be tricky. Sometimes customers get the feeling you rip them off when
you show off with expensive gadgets or expensive cars.

------
f1shrman
In my experience the Macbook Air is the best bang for your buck in terms of
weight, battery life and speed. The Samsung Series 9 is really the only one
that comes close in those 3 areas, and it's more expensive. Full disclosure: I
own the new i5 13" MBA and think it's the best purchase I've made in a long
time.

~~~
sushi
I am planning to purchase the same MBA that you have.

Would you say it's good enough for someone who wants to do Django, python dev,
Photoshop, Illustrator and some basic video editing?

~~~
cmurphycode
Yup, without question. The only thing I'd warn you is that when you're doing
heavy work (video encoding or lots of heavy compilation/running) or heavy play
(lots of flash), the battery life will probably be just under 5. Not at all
like the 7 they claim, which is really only for casual surfing where the
processor is bored out of its mind.

(I have the same i5 13", it's been great)

------
zobzu
I have a Sony Vaio Z21.

So alright alright, it's not, cheap. It's not in the same ball park as the MBA
on the performance side (it annihilates it)

But!

\- it's slightly lighter than the MBA

\- its just as thin and compact

\- it has a gorgeous screen that also doesnt reflects everything instead of
showing you content

\- it runs linux just fine

\- you can plug a lightpeak graphic card if you like

\- the SSD's are extremely, extremely fast (750mbyte/s sequential writes, and
over the gigbyte/s sequential reads. And no, its not mbit/s) \- standard
voltage i7

\- bunch of options if you like that sort of stuff (fingerprint reader, 3G
card, fullhd screen, etc)

\- battery sheet if you like 10-12H battery life for a slightly heavier lappy
(long courier flights anyone?)

-actual HDMI out, VGA out, ethernet port, no need to carry adapters.

-it still looks pretty cool

~~~
phamilton
BS on the SSD speeds.

6 gbps SATA with 8/10 encoding (standard SATA) means the bus is saturated at
600MB/s.

~~~
plantain
Depending on his configuration they come in 2way and 4way RAID-0, so those
numbers are potentially feasible.

------
rkalla
I have asked this question and done this research a number of times and all
the links here are the paths you want to look down.

The Asus lowkey links, the Samsung 9 series (you can get this at Costco), the
Sony Vaio Z series and the small end Lenovo ThinkPad's (which some friends
have told me are a bit too small cause of the higher res screen).

When I looked the Samsung 9 had some serious touch-pad sensitivity issues. The
Sony Vaio Z series is _packed_ and quite expensive if you really load it out.

I would point out that the scrolling/zooming/multi-touch experience in Windows
7 on these other devices is no where near as fluid as the MBA; I don't know
how important that is to you, but once I realized how herky-jerky it was going
to be that was a turn off for me and how I was using my laptop.

Also the hardware loadout in the MBA compared to some of these other devices
actually ends up making the MBA really competitively priced, especially when
you add the SSD to the likes of the Sony Vaio Z which got quite expensive.

As always it depends what you want to do with the laptop (gaming? programming?
web?) but just know that if OS X/Win isn't an issue the hardware on all these
high end ultra lights is within the same ballpark and not night/day different.

------
natch
Macbook Pro 13" for $999, then add whatever SSD you're willing to spring for.

This way you get

* the unibody

* the magsafe

* the battery of the MBP

* the flexibility to easily use OSX if you ever need to (without doing the sketchy hackintosh approach)

* the resale value of the MBP

And you get a lot more machine for the money than the MBA. The one cost you
have to accept is the weight. But that's giving you a very sturdy machine,
something you might value.

The video performance on this generation of 13" MBP is the one weak spot, but
it will suffice if you don't need to be on the bleeding edge.

~~~
gtufano
The Air screen is WAY less reflective than the one on MBP 13", to the point of
being usable. If you, like me, cannot bear to see your reflection in the LCD
:) then the Air is the only alternative to the WAY more expensive (and
weighty) MBP 15" (with the BTO opaque LCD).

------
cageface
I haven't found any non-Apple laptop with a trackpad that's even close.
Everything I've tried on the Windows/Linux side has been bad enough to be a
deal-breaker.

~~~
eitland
True. However on Linux and Windows I don't need to use the touchpad as often.

~~~
sjs
When I use Windows I feel like everything is inside a damn context menu that's
difficult to access with the keyboard.

(imo of course) OS X beats Linux for keyboard shortcuts because they are more
consistent. My ranking is: 1. OS X, 2. Linux, 3. Windows.

I'm a keyboard junkie, to a fault sometimes, but I find that I use the
trackpad on my MacBook quite a bit because it's so useful with all the
gestures and such.

~~~
ToastOpt
> context menu that's difficult to access with the keyboard

Hmm, I guess you're right. Without the dedicated context menu key, you have to
use SHIFT+F10. That's a pain.

~~~
sjs
Yes cumbersome would have been a better word than difficult. Once open it's
pretty straightforward to navigate, though I really wish you could type the
name of any menu item and jump to it like you can on OS X. If there's no alt
shortcut on Windows you have to use the arrow keys which are off the home row,
which still disrupts me every so slightly.

------
nickpp
I own a Lenovo X220, bought before the Air refresh.

Similar weight as the Air but much thicker. Little more powerful CPU to which
I added 8GB ram and a 240GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD.

12-13" IPS display, is the crappiest IPS I ever saw, still better than a TN
though.

Battery life is around 5h, OK I guess.

Keyboard is great but touchpad is horrible. Mac os x is not an option, but Win
7 runs pretty great on it.

~~~
mrud
JFTR the X220 does not have a 13.3" (that would be the X1 or X301 iirc) but
12.5"

~~~
nickpp
You are correct, sorry I was thinking about the Air.

------
scarmig
X220, replacing the stock HDD with a SDD. Clean install of Arch.

Points to note: when it first came out, I had to come up with a patch of tp
smapi to get it to work. Not sure if that's still the case. You'll get
inferior battery life in Linux, even worse than in Windows 7. I'm typically
getting 5-6 hours on wireless doing not particularly intense stuff. Also some
oddities with the special ThinkPad keys that's simply a matter of not caring
enough to fix. Touchpad a bit funky.

It's a solid alternative, though I think I mostly chose it for a superior GUI,
not the system itself.

------
lowkey
Check out the Asus UX21 [http://gizmodo.com/5807015/asus-ux21-matches-macbook-
airs-si...](http://gizmodo.com/5807015/asus-ux21-matches-macbook-airs-sizes-
and-scorches-its-specs)

~~~
edtechdev
Yeah the Asus UL20FT-B1 is out already and has more features than the air, and
it's only around $400 at some places. Weighs 3.3 pounds.

------
Goladus
This isn't a recommendation, as I am not a customer, but System76 offers a
"Lemur Ultrathin" model:
[http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&produc...](http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=106)

Here's a review: <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1610568>

~~~
hogu
battery life seems pretty bad

~~~
japhyr
I use a system76 pangolin, and battery life is my only complaint. I got mine
when they offered a 1680x1050 screen.

------
2muchcoffeeman
I just looked at the link to Samsung 9 series and the googled for the Sony
Viao Z series.

The Samsung 9 in the link is 1600EUR. I checked the German Apple site. The top
end Air is 1499EUR. The low end 13" with a 128GB SSD like in the link is
1249EUR.

I looked up the Viao Z series on the Sony German site and this is a bit
confusing. It says that it starts at 1754EUR which seems like a really good
deal. But at the bottom where there are preconfigured models with more
detailed specs that you can compare, it really starts at 2299EUR (so what are
you getting for 1754EUR?).

The Air is the cheapest option???

~~~
zobzu
Dunno how you got your prices but the MBA starts at around 1000E and ends at
around 2000+EUR The Z starts at around 1700 and ends at around 4500EUR Not
sure about the samsung.

Of course, you don't get the same between a MBA and a Z.

The MBA is a pretty nice machine in fact, if you're an OSX user and don't need
the best-of-the-best (aka the Z, so far, its so much faster than the MBA it's
not even funny)

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
The Samsung prices are in the link in tis topic. I got the MBA prices from the
German Apple site. I got the Z prices from the German Sony site.

I only looked at preconfigured 13" systems. I was only looking at the basics
too. CPU, RAM, SSD capacity. The Z is faster for sure, but I am not convinced
it's worth the premium that they are selling it for.

------
andrewcooke
if you're looking for a good-specced ultralight, the main contenders are the
lenovo x220, hp 2560p, panasonic s10, and sony z something-or-other (i don't
think anyone else has mentioned the s10 which is why i am adding this post -
see [http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/10/panasonic-outs-
toughbook-...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/10/panasonic-outs-
toughbook-s10-with-sandy-bridge-usb-3-0-and-12/) for example).

if you're considering a macbook air then i suspect the s10 or sony are closest
to what you want. personally, i'd go for one of the other two...

------
nordsieck
IMO, the most important feature in a laptop is resolution. The presence of an
ssd is a distant second.

Sony Vaios are ridiculously expensive; that being said, they offer 1920x1080
in a 13.1" form factor. This completely destroys everyone else, in my mind.

~~~
dvdhsu
When the pixel density is that high though, the text starts to strain your
eyes.

~~~
FireBeyond
Apple releases "Retina Display", with ultra-high resolution: "Amazing! So much
better than anything else! So crisp! So beautiful!" Someone else releases
lower pixel density display for laptop, but far better than what Apple deigns
to offer: "Ugh! No! How can you read that? That just gives you eye strain..."

(Exaggerated for emphasis)

~~~
dvdhsu
Right, but most icons do not exist in a high resolution format yet (as far as
I know, I would appreciate if somebody to correct me on this, if I am wrong).

Apple's retina display works because they have graphics that are the same
physical size on screen. When I switch from my MacBook Pro display to an
external Samsung display, the icon and text both get smaller.

------
davidf18
X201s, a previous model to the X220 (along with the non "s" X201) has a higher
resolution display (1440x900 same res as Mac Air 13) than the X220 (1366x766)
and weighs about 1/2 lb less than the X220. Loaded with SSD and 8 GB RAM it is
my preference over the X220. If a 12.5" screen vs. the Mac Air 13.3" screen
works for needs then you might consider this machine. The Thinkpad Trackpoint
is great once you get used to it (probably a few hours/days at most). For long
trips the replaceable batteries of the Thinkpad have an advantage over the
Air.

The X201s , X220 are extremely durable machines (I've had Thinkpads since
1999) and have like Apple (and unlike Sony and some others) outstanding
warranty service. Thinkpads (on certain models) and Apple both have
international warranty.

If you want the larger screen of the Mac Air over the X201s or X220 then I
don't see an alternative to the "Air" today.

~~~
fgumo
Lenovo Thinkpad X1 has 13,3" and a full powered processor. If you want even
bigger you can go with a T420 (14"), which is more similar to the X220 but
with a media unit.

~~~
davidf18
Alas the X1 at 13.3" has only the low resolution 1366x768 display and weighs
3.7 lbs and has less battery life than the Mac Air 13.3" which as the higher
res 1440x900, weighs 3 lbs and has longer battery life. Lenovo did not update
their "Mac Air" which was the X301. Sadly, like early (pre-2010) versions of
the Mac Air it is underpowered (1.4 GHz ULV processor) but it did have the
1440x900 13.3" display. Pity Lenovo did not come out with the update to the
X301 using the same processor, screen as the Mac Air.

------
natch
It's not obvious from your question which aspects of the MBA are
unsatisfactory, and which ones you would like the alternative to have. Can you
say more about your needs?

------
petervandijck
I believe Intel is coming out with a new motherboard spec soon (or already
did?) to build Windows computers that basically imitate the Air. So wait 6
months and you should have some good choices. Couldn't find link, sorry.

~~~
dstein64
Here is a link that has some information on the Ultrabook:

<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20067411-64.html>

------
frzn
Or the Samsung 9 series -> [http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-
Samsung-900X3A-Subnotebo...](http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-
Samsung-900X3A-Subnotebook.50378.0.html)

~~~
vii
I've this laptop. I quite like it, the screen can go very bright so you can
use it outdoors.

The downsides: super sharp edges make it uncomfortable to rest on oneself, the
power socket is flimsy and the charger easily damaged, awful drivers for the
Broadcom WiFi chip.

I tend to give laptops a rough treatment lugging them around (my ThinkPad was
continually damaged and had bits shattered off it on a regular basis). My last
laptop was a Toughbook which bravely survived years though a few screws came
out of it. The Samsung has done very well and the only damage is to the
charger and the screen getting bright patches from being squashed in transit.

The SSD is very fast, maybe faster than the Intel X25M I had before, and I'm
generally pleased with it. I use Ubuntu without major issues.

------
some
Im very much into light and small notebooks and I love the Lenovo X301. The
big advantage over the air is that it has a matte screen. I run linux on it
which works perfectly.

------
realize
No. The other macbooks are too big, and all other notebooks are too windowsey.

~~~
sid0
Too windowsey? What does that even mean? Does it mean you don't actually have
to choose between working AHCI and working sleep in Windows?

~~~
mcritz
It means they're commodity hardware. They're made of plastic. They're poorly
designed, cheaply made, and the general goal is to be almost as good as a
MacBook Air.

Sometimes second place isn't good enough.

~~~
sid0
_It means they're commodity hardware. They're made of plastic. They're poorly
designed, cheaply made_

And yet they're much better to run anything that isn't Mac OS X. They allow
you to boot Linux or Windows from USB. They don't disable AHCI just because
and force you to apply a sleep-breaking MBR hack if you wanted to use it. An
Apple laptop is the worst possible laptop you could get if you wanted to run
Windows. Trust me, I have one and I really hate it. This is the last Apple
laptop I'm ever going to own.

If all other laptops are too Windowsey, then give me a Windowsey laptop over
an Apple one any day.

edit: awww, seems like I hurt the delicate sentiments of a poor widdle Apple
fanboy.

------
drKarl
You can look at the excellent Sony Vaio Z Series

~~~
profquail
I'll second this. If you're looking for a cheap, light notebook with mid-range
features, look elsewhere; however, if you want a fast, portable machine for
development/design, I don't know of anything better. I've had one for about a
year (typing on it now), and it's probably the best development laptop I've
ever used (maybe even best development machine, period).

The only drawbacks I've seen are the price (it's quite expensive) and Sony
isn't very good about keeping their drivers up-to-date, so anything
custom/customized in the machine (like the graphics card) is kind of annoying
to get new drivers for.

~~~
hnhg
The point about the drivers is a big one. I've had a few Sony laptops and I'll
never buy one again because support is non-existent after a couple of years.

------
htilford
For the time being Apple has a near monopoly on the CNC lathes used to make
slick uni-body ultra portables. [http://www.tuaw.com/2011/08/04/apples-hold-
on-metal-chassis-...](http://www.tuaw.com/2011/08/04/apples-hold-on-metal-
chassis-supply-chain-hinders-competition/)

~~~
blackguardx
I think that article meant "milling machines." Lathes are for parts that have
a generally cylindrical shape. 10,000 is a lot. I really can't comprehend the
amount of space that would require. These things are the size of a large
bathroom.

Also, the production of Apple's laptop cases have to be a drop in the bucket
compared to how many other CNC items are produced. I am skeptical of the
article's claims.

------
SandB0x
Lenovo ThinkPad X1, T420s and X220

~~~
g-garron
In May I was thinking about the X220, finally I've decided for a MacBook Pro
(No new Airs at that moment). My decision was mainly because I prefer the Mac
OS to Windows.

Of course I was going to install Linux on the Levono and Wipe Windows, but now
I have OS X with my Laptop and Linux with my Desktop.

------
genki
I've been on the lookout for the LG P220, but it doesn't seem like it's going
to be released in North America... unfortunate. No word on pricing either,
though that wasn't mentioned as a concern.

[http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/12/lg-p220-ultraportable-
spe...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/12/lg-p220-ultraportable-specs-and-
shipping-date-revealed-still-no/)

------
blackiron
Samsung QX411 actually looks a lot like the macbook air. It costs around 800$
with i5 and 6gb of RAM. Its very light for a 14' laptop and battery is pretty
good too.

I own one and just love it, at first I installed Ubuntu but video and clickpad
drivers didnt map well.. then found out I could just run Ubuntu inside
VirtualBox with seamless performance .

~~~
jedbrown
It's a lot heavier than an Air, really more of a competitor to the 13" MBP.
The Asus U46E is also in that category (slightly lighter and narrower, I
preferred the screen).

------
keidian
I personally have an Acer 3820tg that I've had for about a year now. i5-430,
4gigs of ram, 500gb drive. I upgraded the memory to 6gb (had some lying
around) and switched the 5400rpm drive for a 7200rpm. When I have the cash to
spare, I'll put in 8gb and a SSD which should speed it up more. I run
CrunchbangLinux (debian + xfce) upgraded to Sid repos instead of Squeeze. The
only problems I have with it are the video switching can be a pain (solved
with a bios mod that lets you disable the ati card, which I don't really use
much at all) & the usual annoying broadcom wireless that means you need to
connect wired to get the driver the first time or have the .debs downloaded
first.

The model is a bit older now but the specs are good and you can probably find
them quite cheap now. There is also a second gen version (3830 i think is
model?) that has most of the same specs except second gen i5, usb 3 & i think
nvidia instead of ati video.

~~~
starwed
That is almost twice the weight of the smaller Air, with larger dimensions.

Since those are pretty much the defining characteristics of the Air, not
really an "alternative".

------
skyshaper
What about a Asus U36? See e.g. the U36SD-RX145V model or the U36SD-RX117X
model.

The display is not as good and the touchpad is probably inferior, otherwise it
looks like a good fit for $$$ when compared to the Macbook Air.

------
clvv
I've been using HP dm1z for half a year now. It's a pretty good portable
laptop with good battery life. Although in terms of computing power it won't
compare to the airs. But at $400 it is a pretty good MacBook air alternative.

------
ssgrfk
MacBook Pro

------
ConceitedCode
Anyone try a lenovo x1? Seems like a good alternative, but haven't heard much
about it.

~~~
sandeepshetty
Its pretty good except for the battery. If you need decent time on it then you
need to get an additional battery slice which makes it more expensive and
bulkier but it also gives you a great keyboard angle.

------
zeit_geist
An iPad.

------
thigbee
I know you're asking about Air alternatives... But I bought the top-of-the-
line MacBook Air (i7 1.8ghz, 4gb ram, 256gb sdd) right after it came out, and
it's one of the best purchases I've ever made. It's my first Mac and won't be
the last. Definitely the best computer I've ever owned. I run Photoshop,
Illustrator, and InDesign on it, and do minor video editing. The thing's
blazing fast.

~~~
intenex
Have you ever had an SSD before?

