
What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper? - JoachimOfFiore
https://www.sapiens.org/column/curiosities/ancient-roman-bathrooms/
======
reolbox
For 22 years I used toilet paper until I traveled to South East Asia where
every toilet has a seperate sprinkler. After a few toilet visits I decided to
give it a GO. Man, toilet paper feels strange and plain stupid now. Water is
way cheaper, doesn't hurt your "behind" and I feel cleaner afterwards. Paper
seems an invention to sell something we really don't need (by Mad Men :-)).

~~~
tikkabhuna
After our trip to Cambodia we wanted to bring the "Bum Gun" to the UK. For
those who haven't tried it, it's the weirdest thing and sounds disgusting.

To quote a crazy Canadian we met, "if you had poo on your arm and you wiped it
off with toilet paper, would you say its clean?"

That said, SE Asia really lends itself to the Bum Gun. Its warm and can be
humid, so you're not really worried about being a bit damp afterwards. I can't
imagine being in a suit in cold UK winter and using one.

Looking forward to trying a Japanese toilet with those sprays...

~~~
Johnny555
"if you had poo on your arm and you wiped it off with toilet paper, would you
say its clean?"

If you had poo on your arm and rinsed it with a gentle spray of plain water,
would you say it's clean?

If I had poo on my arm, I'd use soap and water to clean it then rinse well. Of
course, if my arm was what was generating the poo, I'd probably be less
fastidious about keeping it clean and free of poo. And I'd see a doctor.

~~~
rocho
> If I had poo on my arm, I'd use soap and water to clean it then rinse well.

That is why the only acceptable option is using a bidet, with soap of course.
It boggles my mind that some people can withstand even the thought of cleaning
themselves with just paper or wet wipes.

~~~
deftturtle
Animals don't use toilet paper or bidets.

~~~
fredley
Animals don't have oversized glutes that allow them to stand upright, and run
long distances to catch prey, _and_ a high fat/carb, low fibre diet that most
humans have.

------
tlb
My uncle was an engineer for a toilet paper manufacturing plant, that took
logs in one end and put TP rolls out the other end. The path was over a mile
long. He worked on variable speed electronic drives for the 1000 horsepower
motors that turned the machinery.

TP illustrates the triumph of civilization: 1000s of people all doing
specialized jobs so billions of people can each avoid a daily unpleasantness.

~~~
toephu2
Except TP is not the solution. If a bird pooped on your arm, would you rather
use a dry paper towel to clean it off or water?

~~~
dancek
That's a common argument, and a flawed one at that IMHO. If a bird pooped on a
table, would you rub it off with your bare finger with some soap water, or
would you use paper? (Granted, even this might give you the hint that _dry_
paper isn't always the best idea.)

~~~
PeterisP
Well no, the whole point is that there's shit on _you_ in the first place
already, not touching it is not an option.

You clean your arse with water so that it's clean and not just wiped with
paper, just as you afterwards will wash your hands instead of just wiping them
on a paper towel.

~~~
dancek
Well, that comes down to cultural or personal preference. Some cultures
consider feet unclean. Some people consider the anus unclean. How clean you
try to make a body part depends on how clean you consider or expect it to be.

------
toastermoster
It was funny to see this HN post tonight. This week I'm doing upgrades to the
DCS (distributed control system) operator stations at one of the largest
tissue manufacturing sites in the US. I was just telling my fiancé how funny
the security is here. You would think they were enriching uranium.

When I first got into the paper industry, which resulted from coming out of
grad school during the Great Recession, I thought i would be a top performer
within six months. I have to admit though that it took me longer to be
proficient in my current position than it did in my former position as a
metrology engineer in a semiconductor fab. There is more technology in the
paper industry than one might assume.

~~~
onetimemanytime
The way US homes are designed it's hard to add a bidet to an existing
bathroom, but doing away with toilet paper must be a goal. Unless you wash,
you cannot feel "good" down there. That's the truth.

~~~
4ad
Yep. However I think that you responded to the wrong comment.

~~~
onetimemanytime
not really. It was about the great engineering that goes to design TP. I said
to do away with it totally

~~~
jackaroe78
I agree, corncobs work just fine

------
tlarkworthy
I think a machine vision directed spray is the future. I don't fancy
collecting the training data though.

~~~
3pt14159
Please no. I don't want asshole recognition software tracking my movements
from washroom to washroom.

~~~
calebegg
Surprisingly relevant Adult Swim Infomercial:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ)

~~~
scribu
A sewer pipe that could detect what’s passing through it would actually have
all kinds of practical uses!

I wonder how feasible it would be to embed chemical sensors into such an
environment.

~~~
toomanybeersies
Governments sometimes analyse waste water for drugs and drug metabolites. You
can't pinpoint specific houses' drug use, but you get get trends and general
population data.

~~~
krtkush
Relevant - [http://www.dw.com/en/austrian-woman-poisons-local-water-
trea...](http://www.dw.com/en/austrian-woman-poisons-local-water-treatment-
plant-with-mercury-laced-remedy-from-india/a-42771257)

------
scottdupoy
The tersorium/stick the Romans used is the source of the expression: to get
"the wrong end of the stick"

------
irrational
My grandfather grew up on a farm. He said they always had a bucket of corn
husks in the outhouse and that was what you used. He was totally serious. If
cheap toilet paper makes my bum feel raw, I can't even imagine what a corn
husk would do to it.

~~~
hudibras
I think you may have misheard him: farmers used to use corn _cobs_ to wipe.

[https://www.farmersalmanac.com/what-did-people-use-before-
to...](https://www.farmersalmanac.com/what-did-people-use-before-toilet-
paper-24419)

~~~
Gustomaximus
This article has the answer;

"In Rome, people cleaned themselves after using a public latrine with a sea
sponge lashed to a stick, stored in a bucket of salt water or vinegar. It was
considered polite to give the sponge a cursory rinse and a squeeze before
putting it back in the bucket to get it ready for the next person."

------
wazoox
François Rabelais did a thorough explanation on the best ways to wipe back in
hist late 15th century books (don't remember which one exactly, sorry). After
discussing the virtues of various sorts of leaves, hay, moss, he concludes
that the best wiping material is a small, soft bird. :)

~~~
mi3law
I thoroughly enjoyed your comment so I did some Googling around, and found
this gem straight from the man himself:

|'I have, answered Gargantua, by a long and curious experience, found out a
means to wipe my bum, the most lordly, the most excellent, and the most
convenient that ever was seen… I say and maintain, that of all torcheculs,
arsewisps, bumfodders, tail-napkins, bunghole cleansers, and wipe-breeches,
there is none in the world comparable to the neck of a goose, that is well
downed, if you hold her head betwixt your legs.'
[http://qi.com/infocloud/geese](http://qi.com/infocloud/geese)

Not just a small bird, but a whole goose neck! XD

~~~
wazoox
I've found the original text which uses "oison", actually the gosling, so
we're both right :) . Many of the words in this text were, as usual with
Rabelais, written in French for the very first time. The whole text is
incredibly satiating, reading it aloud naturally fills both the mouth and the
belly with this incredibly coarse tongue, and provokes roaring laughter.

[http://mapage.noos.fr/crosin000v/Rabelais/Extraits_fr_Rabela...](http://mapage.noos.fr/crosin000v/Rabelais/Extraits_fr_Rabelais.html)

------
chrischen
> Like Gayetty’s sheets, Scott tissue was originally marketed as a medicinal
> product

Interesting. The TOTO washlet style toilet was marketed originally in the US
as a medical device (meant for people who had difficulty wiping). It never
caught on in the US but caught on in Japan instead. I'm wondering if the
washlet is the next technological advancement like the toilet paper was
compared to the Roman butt-brush. In theory a butt brush can still work today,
although considered unsanitary, but a wipe with paper is just as unsanitary
when compared to flushing with water. Even a non-electronic bidet is vastly
superior to toilet paper.

------
kragen
When I moved to Argentina, it took me a while to get used to bidets. But now
that I'm used to them, I never use toilet paper voluntarily. It leaves your
butt still dirty!

As someone said, if you got poop on your arm, maybe while changing a diaper,
would you wipe it off with a piece of paper and consider it clean? No, not if
you're from the mainstream of any developed country. You would use water,
soap, and maybe more extreme measures.

Well, why do you leave your anus caked with residual poop, then? Advance into
the 18th century: get a bidet, and learn to use it. Overcome your ignorance
and embarrassment. Even I did.

(I still use toilet paper in public restrooms, though. They usually don't have
bidets.)

~~~
sneak
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A0RHSJO/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A0RHSJO/)

$35 and installs in 10 mins with included tools on most toilets. I have
installed them on every toilet I regularly use and somewhat internally
question anyone who uses Amazon and toilets and doesn’t have one.

It also now bothers me when I stay in a 5 star hotel in the US and there is no
bidet; I have seriously considered installing one of these (and leaving it) in
each hotel I stay at for more than 48h.

~~~
spraak
It's really not the same as a line pressurized bidet, but I bring this [1]
with me when I go out.

[1]
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CSDKSQ/ref=oh_aui_sear...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CSDKSQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

------
wheresmyusern
we seriously need a better solution for toilets. toilets use huge amounts of
water. if you want to have a toilet in a moving vehicle, or anywhere that is
not directly connected to a sewage line and a giant water treatment plant,
then you are just out of luck because all the mobile toilet solutions out
there suck. it amazes me that a good solution has evaded us for so long.

when considering how to travel where-ever i want and for cheap i considered a
van or rv. in both cases im stuck chasing after land installations that allow
me to essentially use a toilet. with the rv, you have to offload somewhere and
with a van you have to be near someone else's toilet.

the best solution i can think of is to have a special toilet that uses plastic
bagging. a continuous sleeve of plastic is fed through the toilet and lines
the inside of the "bowl" and is sealed at the bottom of the bowl forming a
plastic bag. waste is collected and then the plastic material is rolled out --
so the bag descends and is replaced with new plastic material above. plenty of
extra plastic is reeled out and a heating element comes in and seals the bag
above the waste, simultaneously creating a new "bag" to catch waste and
sealing completely the waste in the old bag. the end result is a completely
clean bowl and fully contained waste. the waste bags could then be disposed of
in an incinerator or a processing plant at some later time. the bag could be
made biodegradable and a sterilizing agent added to the bag before its sealed
to allow the bags to be disposed of without processing.

~~~
rileymat2
I would be curious if all this plastic in your plan actually saves resoures
over water.

~~~
dawnerd
Yeah uh, water is at least fairly easy to reuse and isn't "wasted". My old
apartment recycled water on site (one of the first in north america to do it)
for the toilets/landscaping. If cities would just put in non potable water
lines and make it code for new buildings to use it for toilets and landscaping
we'd really reduce how much drinking water is used.

------
scraft
I am from the UK, typically visit the US once or twice per year, have visited
every country in the EU and am currently spending 12 months traveling the
world (3 months in at the moment, having visited India, Hong Kong, Vietnam,
Cambodia, Laos and Thailand). I have a website/blog about this for those that
are interested: [http://ourbigplanet.com](http://ourbigplanet.com)

In various parts of the world, previous to this trip, I encountered trash cans
(or bins as we call them) in bathrooms for toilet tissue (Turkey is an
example). I also encountered "bum guns" (the hoses with a sort of shower head
that you can fire at yourself after bowl movements). What I typically did was
ignore both and continue my business the way I knew how.

Since starting this year long trip, I have been forcing myself to try more
things. And all the countries I have visited so far have requested toilet
paper isn't flushed and they have the bum gun. So I tried it, and shockingly
found it works really well. No matter how bad the movement is (eating street
food, often heavily spiced, etc) the bum gun does a splendid job of completely
cleaning you, and you don't have to get your hands particularly close to the
zone you are cleaning. It is far less abrasive, environmentally better, and
leaves you cleaner (it is like if you have a muddy arm, and attempt to clean
it by wiping it with tissues vs having a shower).

After using the bum gun, typically I will use a couple of sheets of toilet
paper, initially to make sure I was clean, but I so found this wasn't
necessary, but I still use a couple just to get dry. Sometimes there isn't any
available, and I don't have any, so I leave the bathroom with a slight amount
of wetness which quickly dries in the hot countries.

The toilet paper goes into the bin, but unlike in Turkey where it was used
toilet paper (used without bum gunning) which stunk the whole room out, now
the toilet paper is inoffensive and without smell).

So overall, I feel the way things are done over here have a lot of positives.
I am certainly glad I embraced it.

On a tangent, I believe people who wipe typically do it one of two ways:

1\. Whilst sitting on the toilet, do some sort of lean and wipe manoeuvre

2\. Stand up, squat a tiny bit and wipe.

I have been taught to do 2 as a child, but find some toilets aren't designed
for this, as they have a sensor which flushes when you stand (even if you are
standing to wipe). I find these sensors are much more common in the US than
other places I have visited. It is almost like the designer doesn't know about
all the people who use method 2.

~~~
Turing_Machine
Thanks. I will be referring to bidets as "bum guns" from now on (because it's
funny).

~~~
rtx
Both are diffrent

------
dahart
> I’m thinking of opening a chain called Urine-Urout All-Natural Laundromat.
> It’s a sparkling business opportunity!

Best line in the article. Though, TIL contrary to the popular myth, urine
isn't sterile.

~~~
kragen
Once you ferment it until it stinks of ammonia, it's pretty sterile.
Eventually even the extremophilic bacteria that produce the ammonia will die
off from it.

~~~
logfromblammo
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lant)

I have heard that the piss-collection industry still exists, but collecting
the urine from portable toilets and extracting human urokinase from it, rather
than using it for cleaners, glazes, and flavorings.

And, after searching for confirmation, here it is:
[http://www.toilets.com/Pharm/pharm_production.htm](http://www.toilets.com/Pharm/pharm_production.htm)

~~~
salgernon
I'd like to recommend Jim Al-Khalili's excellent "Chemistry a volatile
history" BBC documentary. At point point he describes how alchemists were
attempting to convert urine to gold (hey, they're both yellow...) and by
boiling it down accidentally discovered phosphorous.

Ah, detailed on Wikipedia:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry:_A_Volatile_History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry:_A_Volatile_History)

~~~
Turing_Machine
There's also a lot about this in Neal Stephenson's _Baroque Cycle_ , including
the building and destruction of an 18th century incendiary munitions factory.

------
tdons
On most days toilet paper helps you smear more than it helps you wipe.

For those wanting to try out the bidet without buying one there's always the
backcountry bidet [1].

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2x-G7sXVs4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2x-G7sXVs4)

~~~
dpcx
I have one of these: [https://hellotushy.com/](https://hellotushy.com/) \- it
works really well.

~~~
gkya
Wow this is incredibly similar to what we usually use in Turkey. But here the
little faucet is already installed into the rim, and the valve is on the wall
to your right. I just can't imagine how people live without using these things
or a bidet.

------
siavosh
Is it possible there were some kind of dividers between the toilets that are
now long gone? Ie not as public as the picture might indicate.

~~~
rtkwe
Probably not. There likely would have been some sort of mounting points on the
floor or walls to hold it. Also it's not like we don't have writings and
paintings from the time. I imagine there's some evidence from there too.

------
hellofunk
The article says that certain remote and rural areas of Asia still don't use
toilet paper. However, this is also true of most of the Philippines, including
middle- and upper-class areas in major cities. It's not an issue only of
economic stability or access to it, but also just a cultural one. I've been in
upscale restaurants in Manila where there was no toilet paper in the
bathrooms. They use a little bucket of water next to the toilet to wash
instead.

~~~
pkd
This is true of almost all of India too. I'd wager than more than 60% of the
world's population uses some technique superior to toilet paper.

~~~
daxauthor
Yes, I wonder if some one should do R&D on whether water is better.

------
johnhenry
The author mentions the tersorium, but I'm surprised that he doesn't bring up
family wipes (also know as "family cloth") [https://inhabitat.com/family-
cloths-gross-or-great/](https://inhabitat.com/family-cloths-gross-or-great/).

It seems like the idea never truly died out.

~~~
TheMagicHorsey
Just do the Indian technique. Its so much cleaner and more environmentally
friendly. You basically have a small pot and you wash your butt after every
poop, and then wash your hands.

~~~
u801e
Do you use soap along with the water? The variation I'm aware of is using a
watering can, your hand, and lots of soap to wash the area and dry it off with
toilet paper.

A lot of public toilets in the Middle East will have something similar to a
kitchen sink spray attachment mounted on the wall next to the toilet along
with a liquid soap dispenser. You can use them in a similar way to the pot you
mention.

------
DonHopkins
Three seashells?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7nFEnFtvCM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7nFEnFtvCM)

------
bambax
> _To ancient Romans, the practice of sitting on a shared toilet in an open
> room full of people was entirely ordinary._

That's a funny thing to say for an American, because, to Europeans, American
toilets are much too public: doors don't go to the floor or ceiling, and even
"walls" are thin sheets of wood/plastic loosely joined together with huge
spaces between them.

It seems, Americans don't trust one another to sit alone in a toilet; I still
don't know if it's for security purposes (to check if someone has a heart
failure?) or puritanical reasons (make sure people aren't having sex?) but it
sure feels strange, and very difficult to get used to when one comes from a
different culture.

~~~
lainga
This is the 6th post I have seen this week along the formula

(1) I am from Europe and I went to America.

(2) Americans do things in a way I find unusual and/or distressing.

(3) The cause must be a character flaw shared by all Americans (security and
puritanical reasons...?).

~~~
pwython
Eh, when someone says "it sure feels strange, and very difficult to get used,"
it doesn't have to be negative. You can take it as a "character flaw" jibe,
but it's really just an observation.

source: American that is still in shock by septic tank users that have to
throw their feces-paper in the trashcan.

~~~
tzs
> source: American that is still in shock by septic tank users that have to
> throw their feces-paper in the trashcan.

What? Where/when/why is that necessary?

~~~
andrewwharton
Greece/present day/crap plumbing.

[https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-
safety/europe/greece/toil...](https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-
safety/europe/greece/toilets-in-greece-water-safety)

------
neves
American would spare a lot of money in toilet paper if they had this simple
device in all their bathrooms:
[https://www.google.com.br/search?q=ducha+higi%C3%AAnica&clie...](https://www.google.com.br/search?q=ducha+higi%C3%AAnica&client=firefox-
b-
ab&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFkrfLx6HaAhWS2VMKHSkmBGAQ_AUICigB&biw=1340&bih=566)

~~~
toephu2
To be fair, you still need to dry your butt though. Which is why my Japanese
toilet has a dryer built-in.

------
candiodari
It's always fun to point out the sharia rule (islam was created in a province
of the Eastern Roman Empire) that you should use your left hand to clean your
downside after using a squatting toilet, optionally using pebbles, and without
looking - and thus by normal standards of interpretation - not anything else
or in any other way. Oh and don't worry: it explicitly mentions you can wash
your hands in water afterwards.

Needless to say, even the most hardline clerics are unwilling to follow this
rule in present day.

It's one of those rules that is always conveniently left out when muslims
defend religious rules. But in reality some people actually do this. There was
a recent court case in Egypt when a chef insisted on doing things this way and
that this -and not washing hands afterwards- should be enough. I don't even
know how the court case went but I doubt the guy still has any customers.

(incidentally this may be why there is a sharia rule that you should -only-
use your right hand for eating, greeting, opening doors and it's attempting to
further insult slaves by calling slaves "those owned by the left hand")

(it would probably be worth pointing out that when one does not have the
availability of modern toilets and toilet paper this is probably a good way to
significantly slow the spread of several very serious diseases. It won't stop
them, of course)

[http://www.myreligionislam.com/detail.asp?Aid=6096](http://www.myreligionislam.com/detail.asp?Aid=6096)

[https://thehumanist.com/voices/rules_are_for_schmucks/rules-...](https://thehumanist.com/voices/rules_are_for_schmucks/rules-
schmucks-islam-vs-toilet-paper)

------
23478s882u
I'm American (with no kids, so my hands don't touch feces often). The idea of
using a bidet seems strange because the toilet paper protects my fingers. Do
bidet users just accept that their fingers will get all mucky and then they
will follow up with a thorough hand washing? (Is this a strange question, even
to other Americans? Googling doesn't find the answer.)

~~~
PeanutNore
If your fingers get "mucky" while using a bidet you're doing something
terribly, terribly wrong. The point of a bidet is so your hands don't need to
get anywhere near your, uh, "vent". If you're just going to muck out your bung
with your fingers, what do you even need a bidet for? You could just do that,
and then wash your hands. With a bidet, water under pressure takes care of
everything for you.

~~~
23479s882u
I doubt whether water alone can thoroughly dislodge all traces for those of us
with sticky, fairly solid poo.

Besides, there seem to be lots of cultures where people have water but not
pressure, and it seems that they use fingers. (Often the left hand.)

I found kragen's answer above to be much more helpful, in that he explains
both water-only and water-plus-fingers options.

I would feel a little uncomfortable about handling poo that closely and maybe
getting it under my fingernails, but that's my own hangup. I don't believe my
habits are objectively superior.

------
bathroomandlife
I have shit in public in a city jail holding tank in the US, , shat in a
comunal toilet in rural China without dividers and wiped my ass with pine
needles in the wilderness but by far the worst experience was when i wiped my
ass with corn leaves in the corn fields when i was young. Boy did that sting.

------
toastermoster
So I couldn't resist adding this link to the SNL sketch of "The Bidet":

[http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-
live/video/bidet/n12737?sn...](http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-
live/video/bidet/n12737?snl=1)

------
exodust
So many opinions! I will add mine.

Best solution is do your business at home before shower. Hot water and soap
and wash cloth or something in shower is only way to get properly clean.

When out and about, wet paper is the best, it is superior to water alone, and
dry paper in terms of cleaning yourself after you've done business. This is
why wet-wipes are so popular. It's all about getting you the distance to the
next shower in your life.

I don't subscribe to water alone, or using hand to clean yourself. Even when
washing your hands after, you might have bits under your fingernails, and that
is disgusting. Toilet paper is a protective barrier to the horrible matter. I
will never use my hand. Obviously the Romans didn't want to use their hands
either, and preferred a communal bum cleaner!

------
lucb1e
TL;DR:

> an ancient Roman would grab a tersorium (or, in my technical terms, a
> “toilet brush for your butt”). A tersorium is an ingenious little device
> made by attaching a natural sponge (from the Mediterranean Sea, of course)
> to the end of a stick. Our ancient Roman would simply wipe him- or herself,
> rinse the tersorium in the running water or a small bucket of vinegar, and
> return it to the stand for the next person to use.

The question is finally answered in the 11th paragraph of the article.

------
url00
Unrelated to article content:

When I try to browse to the site from Lynx, I get 403 forbidden'ed. Can anyone
else confirm? Works fine from Firefox Nightly for me. Any thought on why this
would be? Are they intentionally blocking non-js enabled web browsers?

~~~
crispyporkbites
Probably best if you ask your assistant to download it and email it across to
you so you can open it in lynx locally

------
jmmarco
In South America, specifically Argentina almost all households have a Bidet.
It baffles me that a country like the US doesn’t have them as a standard
device (at least in homes), considering the amount of food in the average
American diet.

~~~
rtx
Because that's how you cross over to the otherside.

------
sofreshandso
I was 30 years old before I realized the only truly effective way to clean
myself after anything other than an elusive "hard, no-wiper" is with soap and
water. When I think of all the afternoons at work spent coping with the after-
effects of bad toilet-paper wipe-outs I cringe.

Anytime I have the privacy to do so, I use a few paper towels and some soapy
water and I treat the affected area as if I'm removing a dog's mess from a
soft carpet. At home sometimes I'll just jump in the shower. There's no going
back to wiping with tissue paper and wishing for the best.

------
cwmma
I loved using bidet's in Europe and about a year ago learned that they are not
actually expensive, I got one for like $20 that I was able to install myself
and I can not recommend it more highly.

~~~
brewdad
I would love to try one but my bathroom has no where to plug in an electronic
one, and really no good spot to install a new outlet. How is the cold water
shock from using a more basic model?

~~~
cwmma
I've never used a heated bidet or put another way I have had no problem with
cold water shock.

------
Gustomaximus
An article /u/hudibras posted has the answer

In Rome, people cleaned themselves after using a public latrine with a sea
sponge lashed to a stick, stored in a bucket of salt water or vinegar. It was
considered polite to give the sponge a cursory rinse and a squeeze before
putting it back in the bucket to get it ready for the next person.

[https://www.farmersalmanac.com/what-did-people-use-before-
to...](https://www.farmersalmanac.com/what-did-people-use-before-toilet-
paper-24419)

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drderidder
Check out the Toto Washlet 350e.
[https://washlet.totousa.com/product/s350e](https://washlet.totousa.com/product/s350e)

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logfromblammo
I once heard a claim that toilet paper is more addictive than heroin.

There might be something to that. I've heard that people occasionally quit
using heroin. I only know one family that even has a retrofitted toilet seat
with bidet function. That scalds your bung if you try to use it, because they
have their water heater set to 99 degrees C. (It might not _actually_ be that
high, but they're _certainly_ safe from Legionnaire's Disease.)

So toilet paper reigns there still.

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chillingeffect
While we're eon the subject: since I switched to a high-fiber diet, my toilet
paper needs (and throne time) have decreased dramatically. Particularly
blended kale, including the stalks, leads to quick, efficient bowel movements.
It goes by so fast I don't have time to do anything on my phone. I am way
faster than those around me, and my wipes have almost no material, because the
poop itself is more cohesive.

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upofadown
>Our ancient Roman would simply wipe him- or herself, rinse the tersorium in
the running water or a small bucket of vinegar, and return it to the stand for
the next person to use.

I'm pretty sure that you would also wet it before use and if the job was
demanding, during use. It would be more or less the same as using wet wipes,
which is a contemporary practice for some.

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SomewhatLikely
I wonder what the hole on the front of those Roman toilets is for in the
article? Maybe just so it can act as urinal too?

~~~
LyndsySimon
It's where they kept the brush.

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parinvachhani
This entire discussion feels alien and even kinda primitive to me, someone
grown up in India. We have a simple nozzle that sprays water and cleans your
anus way better and without having to wipe it off yourself with toilet paper.
Toilet paper just frankly seems like a hallmark of western consumerism to me.

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Asturaz
Well you don't have to go far back in history to read how people solved it.

Sweden during 1920, in Swedish
[https://www.faltbiologerna.se/faltbiologen/innan-
toapapperet...](https://www.faltbiologerna.se/faltbiologen/innan-toapapperet-
uno-viklund-berattar)

~~~
jpatokal
Got TL;DR for the Swedish-impaired? The sole illustration is not terribly
enlightening.

~~~
kqr
Note that none of this reflects my opinion, and is purely as objective a
summary as I am capable of.

\-----

There are many varieties of things in nature you can use to wipe with, in
contrast to the modern choice which has been reduced to white paper with or
without printed flowers.

One can carve sticks out of firewood, and use them to scrape residue off. It
was important that the sticks had a smooth and sharp edge. They take about a
minute to make. They are disposeable, and you could make them ahead of time.
When you cut wood with an axe, you get a lot of tiny pieces of wood left which
are great for this. You could not use human poop as manure in situations where
the used sticks would cause trouble. You did not wash your hands, because you
only held onto the end of the stick that hasn't been in your butt.

In case you were out and didn't want to make sticks, you could use moss. Or
fruticose lichen (tree moss, old man's beard). The lichen is better than moss
because moss is wet. In an emergency, snow works, but it is very cold. Hay and
other forms of dead grass work too.

This worked because poop was less sticky in the old days. The types of food
they ate made their poop come out in solid pellet form. They did get stomach
bugs with the associated loose stool, but simply had to take it for the
nuisance it was. Maybe try to get hold on some water to clean off.

\-----

Edit: s/burning wood/firewood/ lest someone gets a really stupid idea...

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TangoTrotFox
I am ever intrigued with how long lived the Ancient Greek and Romans were in
spite of near to no medical knowledge whatsoever. They still believed in
miasma theory and, in spite of phenomenal advances in most sciences and
culture, medicine remained quite backwards for the entirety of their
civilizations. Yet go look at the age of death of most any Roman or Greek.
There's some selection bias in that names that we know obviously did not die
when they were 15, yet the bias is probably not that large. Aristotle died at
61. And you might think that would be average or old, but he actually died
quite young. Wiki has pages on lists of ancient Greeks [1] and Romans [2] to
facilitate easier searching. Just picking some names out:

Plato - 80

Socrates - 71 (sentenced to death)

Antisthenes - 80

Hippocrates - 90

Pythagorus - 75

The reason for the lower life expectancy was largely because of people dying
during childhood and infancy. And so it makes one immediately wonder about
things like this. Sharing poop rods seems like a great way to spread disease,
yet on the other hand the immune system, like much of our body, becomes
stronger with use -- the whole concept behind vaccines.

Put another way, it seems to me that we're not living as long as we 'ought'
be. What would the life expectancy of these peoples be if you gave them their
culture and style of living, yet also threw in only imminent life saving
interventions from modern medicine? Based on limited data it seems it would
begin to challenge the life expectancy of man today, certainly if we exclude
the mortality of childhood and infancy. Though perhaps that is also part of
the picture. Vastly improved care for infants and children has removed natural
selection from that part of humanity.

No idea, but each time I read one of these alien sounding tales, it certainly
sparks the imagination!

[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Greeks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Greeks)

[2] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Romans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Romans)

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chiph
For travelers, this site tells you if your destination country uses paper, and
if so, if it's OK to flush it (not all sewer systems can handle toilet paper)

[http://www.wheredoiputthepaper.com/](http://www.wheredoiputthepaper.com/)

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peter303
Paper was way too expensive for most to waste on hygiene under wood pulp paper
was invented in the late 1800s. As other posts mentions there were plenty of
alternative methods, from your left hand, rags, corn cobs, etc.

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ArlenBales
I go backpacking a lot in sierras and only bring 1 roll of Coghlan's Toilet
Paper for 3-4 days. I hardly ever use it. A diet of lots of fiber, a few
sticks and granite rocks makes it a nonissue.

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heston88
The simplest and most effective option I have found is to use a facecloth
dedicated for cleaning your bum after pooping. Extremely cost effective and a
very clean feeling afterwards.

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deftturtle
Misleading title. Implication is that Romans don't clean their anus as
thoroughly by not using toilet paper. But it turns out they use a brush to
clean. Amazing.

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Yhippa
Without reading the article is the answer sponge on a stick?

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k__
I read that many asian people don't even use it and simply wash themselves
with a showerhead instead. Maybe we should just do it like that?

~~~
salmanarshad321
I guess most Muslims use them as well because washing with water is commanded
in Islam. In case there was no water, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would command
his followers to use pebbles.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_toilet_etiquette](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_toilet_etiquette)

Coming to India, I have been to a lot of toilets in different places and it's
hard to find the ones _with_ a toilet roll. The only place I remember I
couldn't find a hand shower was the Delhi airport. I was disgusted. In fact
most households use the 'Indian seats' with a lota (vessel pot) instead of the
commode toilet. Many have both including my house. Funnily, I'm actually
currently relieving myself.

~~~
amitbr
*While on the toilet, one must remain silent. Talking, answering greetings or greeting others is strongly discouraged.[4]

~~~
salmanarshad321
Haha I was gonna mention that. I'm still not sure if this counts -- probably
does. I'll consult a scholar. Because there are similar things which are
allowed under Islam. For instance, a Muslim is advised (not commanded) to make
ablutions before picking up the Qur'an. But I have a Qur'an app on my phone
which made me wonder if I was supposed to make ablutions before opening the
app. A scholar of Islam told me that I'm not. He quoted a ruling which
reasoned that the purpose of a mobile phone is not just reading the Qur'an;
which is also comparable to a book containing Quranic verse - you don't have
to be in a state of purity before picking up that book.

~~~
sumedh
> I'm still not sure if this counts -- probably does.

Why do you think it does not count?

~~~
salmanarshad321
Maybe because while reading you're not required to open your mouth and
physically speak. That's just my reasoning. Islamic rulings are based on the
Qur'an and the Traditions of the Prophet (pbuh). There are about a million
traditions on a variety of topics. The scholars keep them in mind while giving
a ruling. So, I'm in no position to give a ruling on this. A Google search on
the topic tells you that it's not, but none of the answers are satisfying for
me so I think I'll have to visit a scholar and ask him/her.

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lastUsername
I stopped used toilet paper 2 years ago. I just use a bidet, water and the
right soap are much more gentle and you are cleaner.

It's a win win.

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udkl
I remember a scene from HBO's 'Rome' where Markus and Sextus use a communal
toilet and a sponge-on-a-stick later.

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rukshn
In Sri Lanka we also use water. I can't imagine how to survive without water.
It feels so dirty not to use water

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decasteve
They wiped with their left hand, which is why it was called the sinister hand
(manu sinistra).

~~~
Double_a_92
"sinistra" also literally means "left".

~~~
decasteve
/s

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ivanb
A little though experiment. Imagine you got poop on your fingers. You take
toilet paper and wipe your fingers clean. Are you now ready to continue with
your business or does it feel a bit unsanitary? Then why do this to your butt?

~~~
Freak_NL
Social inertia. Toilet habits are very hard to change due to the taboo-ish
nature of the topic, and the social expectation that toilets are more or less
the same everywhere you go (at work or school, in restaurants, visiting
friends or family, etc.).

Anyone who spent a year is in a country like Japan or South Korea will have
experienced that toilet paper is down-right barbaric compared to a jet of warm
water appearing at the touch of a button gently rinsing the nether regions.
You still use toilet paper, but only two sheets or so to dry up.

But when you go back to a country that uses only toilet paper you either have
to go out of your way (and pay a lot of money to renovate your bathroom) to
find the kind of modern automated toilet seat that does add the features
you've just left behind, or you just do as everyone else does.

~~~
topmonk
> But when you go back to a country that uses only toilet paper you either
> have to go out of your way (and pay a lot of money to renovate your
> bathroom) to find the kind of modern automated toilet seat that does add the
> features you've just left behind, or you just do as everyone else does.

Having gotten use to the bidet, I now bring a bottle of water with me, and wet
the toilet paper before wiping. It leaves me about as clean as with a bidet.

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z3t4
Life hack: If you poop more often, like every time you take a piss, the
consistency will be harder, smaller and non-sticky, so you wont have to use
the paper.

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riazrizvi
_tersorium.com_ is available!

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usernum3hundred
"shared butt cleaner"

that made me laugh out loud :-)

