

Gavin King: Ceylon is no Java killer - abp
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Ceylon

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mariusmg
So he is unhappy with the libraries and he's building a new language to fix
this ? Some of the problems and ingrained at the JVM level (broken generics
implementation for instance) so creating a new language and new libraries
cobbled over Java ones won't really fix the problems.

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kaffeinecoma
"There is simply no good way to define a user interface in Java, and that is a
language problem"

I'm curious what he really means by this. Language-level GUI implementations?
Or perhaps he's referring to language support for validating user input.

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famousactress
I don't know what he means by it, but I'd make the same statement. If I did,
I'd be referring to a number of things. First off, the basic Swing and AWT UI
stuff all suffers from a number of issues, but core to the language is the way
interfaces/anonymous inner classes proliferate necessarily. Core user-
interface concepts like event dispatching/handling really benefit from
language features built with them in mind. Portable functions on some level..
like C#'s delegates, or any of the closure proposals..

And then yeah, all of the alternatives.. defining UIs in XML, literally ANY of
the Java web frameworks. They all suffer from core problems: Writing Java code
can be frankly kinda slow and cumbersome compared to other (more dynamic)
languages. That's a totally reasonable tradeoff for the benefits you get back
when, say.. you're building out some business logic, or implementing a network
protocol... but in the land of declarative user-interfaces (including web
ones).. more often than not the frameworks mortgage away loads of the compile-
time niceness without giving you the benefit of a dynamic language framework's
velocity or brevity.

I do think writing user interfaces (of any kind) in Java pretty much sucks.
I've thought for some time that the big win here would probably be to see more
tools that allow you to write your presentation layer stuff in a dynamic
language that runs on the JVM.

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baltcode
Site seems unreachable, does anyone have a cached version?

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DiabloD3
I asked the guy that runs it, the server is being restarted

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gtani
tl;dr (prolly longer than blog you can't access

[http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/goxux/redhat_an...](http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/goxux/redhat_announce_2yo_skunkworks_projects_ceylon_a/)

