
Improved JavaScript and WebAssembly performance in EdgeHTML 17 - pjmlp
https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2018/06/19/improved-javascript-webassembly-performance-edgehtml-17/
======
giancarlostoro
One announcement I'm waiting to hear about in all honesty is Microsoft open
sourcing Edge, they don't have to reveal Cortana specifics (though that would
be fund to read through if they'd allow it) but just EdgeHTML with Chakra in a
way that compiles nicely. I would love to see what would happen if they
allowed the community to contribute back to Edge if it could become much more
competitive as a result of them welcoming contributors.

A few years ago I'd sound like I'd be tripping on bathsalts but I think it
could happen, just a matter of when they choose to do so.

~~~
Flenser
Chakra is Open Source:

[https://github.com/Microsoft/ChakraCore](https://github.com/Microsoft/ChakraCore)

but I guess what you want is an "Edgeium" equivalent of Edge in the way that
Chromium is the full (compilable) OSS version of Chrome.

~~~
danShumway
I think that Microsoft is still working on a Chakra version of Node as well.
That's probably what I'm most excited about, V8 hasn't had much competition,
which means that there's nobody to question its approach to resource usage,
garbage collection, etc...

V8 is great for some things, but it falls down hard on low-resource
environments. This is one of the reasons why Electron apps are so greedy, you
have to kind of do a lot of fighting with V8 if you don't want it to balloon
RAM usage. If you have open RAM sitting around, sometimes V8 will decide to
just take it so it can defer garbage collection longer, or so it doesn't need
to waste time asking for it in the future. From what I've heard, Chakra is
better about those kinds of situations.

I would really like to see a runtime ecosystem for Node and Electron that is
as competitive as browsers are. Microsoft is probably in the best position to
push that.

There's some potential that with a solid competitor they could open the
floodgates and encourage other developers to start building browser runtimes
that are optimized for specific scenarios rather than a one-size-fits-all
approach.

~~~
kodablah
[https://github.com/nodejs/node-chakracore](https://github.com/nodejs/node-
chakracore)

------
TheAceOfHearts
I've never seen a person using Edge. Does anyone here use it? Do you work at
Microsoft or have a big technical investment in their technology? Do you find
the lack of cross-platform support annoying, or do you primarily use a single
OS?

These changes all look like they apply to ChakraCore, which is open source and
available outside of Windows. I'd be curious to hear what kinds of use-cases
people have for using Node Chakra over Node V8.

~~~
NiveaGeForce
Edge is the most resource efficient and respects modern Windows conventions,
therefore it has the best, pen, touchscreen, tablet (including share button
and stuff) and precision trackpad support. And since it's WinRT/UWP, it can
suspends its tab processes, and also itself when minimized or automatically
during tablet mode in the background, and during fullscreen it also
automatically unhides the taskbar when you hover over it, for better multi-
tasking.

It also has nice features such as the set tabs aside session manager that even
retains history and session cookies, and it a nice PDF and ePub reader with
support for notes and highlighting with the pen, and Cortana integration.
Before Edge, I primarily used Firefox and dabbled with Chrome and Vivaldi.

Edge is on both iOS and Android, and no I don't work for MS, I just value
proper modern OS integration and battery efficiency, so that I can use my
device as intended.

~~~
beagle3
> Edge is on both iOS and Android,

Something called Edge from Microsoft is available for iOS (where it is a
rebranded WebKit) and on Android (where it is a rebranded Blink, IIRC). If you
primarily work with Windows 10, Edge makes some sense, otherwise it makes no
sense.

On iPhone, by Apple decree, ALL web browsers (including Firefox and Chrome)
are rebranded WebKit; However, on Android, Chrome is (mostly) the real chrome
and Firefox is (mostly) the real firefox.

> I just value proper modern OS integration and battery efficiency, so that I
> can use my device as intended.

The only downside to it I see is that you are using Windows 10... I value
privacy and control of my devices a little more than 10% of battery
efficiency.

~~~
NiveaGeForce
> Something called Edge from Microsoft is available for iOS (where it is a
> rebranded WebKit) and on Android (where it is a rebranded Blink, IIRC).

Why is it a problem that it uses webkit on iOS and Android? Why reinvent the
wheel, when those rendering engines are already optimized for those platforms?
The thing I care about is that it supports syncing of settings.

> If you primarily work with Windows 10, Edge makes some sense, otherwise it
> makes no sense.

If you primarily work with Mac OS, Safari makes some sense, otherwise it makes
no sense. Why do I never hear that complaint?

Also, Edge on iOS and Android will soon have a built-in adblocker.

> The only downside to it I see is that you are using Windows 10... I value
> privacy and control of my devices a little more than 10% of battery
> efficiency.

Have you ever looked at the privacy controls of Windows? Also the battery
efficiency is significantly more than 10%, and try find me an as versatile and
user friendly alternative OS for pen capable 2-in-1s, that has better privacy
controls.

~~~
beagle3
> If you primarily work with Mac OS, Safari makes some sense, otherwise it
> makes no sense. Why do I never hear that complaint?

Yes, but I work on all three desktop OSes, and two mobile OSs; I picked
Firefox, which I use everywhere except on iOS (where it does exist, but is not
really Firefox, even if it does sync with the rest of the Firefoxen).

> Also, Edge on iOS and Android will soon have a built-in adblocker.

Cool. Firefox already does, and I can also use it on Linux and Mac.

> Have you ever looked at the privacy controls of Windows?

Yes, I have, and they are horrible; Have you?. I cannot stop telemetry or
updates (unless LTSB which I can't even get, or enterprise which is too
expensive to get for home), I can't get security updates without _eveything_
else that Microsoft decides to bundle even if I did use LTSB or Enterprise. I
have no way to verify exactly what Microsoft sends to their servers (and their
description is incomplete and out of date, if you care to trust it).

The upgrade-to-windows-10 dark patterns are what you should consider when you
think "windows control & privacy".

> Also the battery efficiency is significantly more than 10%,

Not in my experience of Edge vs Firefox, unless things have changed very
dramatically in the last few months.

> and try find me a more versatile and user friendly alternative OS for pen
> capable 2-in-1s, that has better privacy controls.

"versatile" and "user friendly" are very subjective terms; I curse every
minute I have to work with Windows after having used a consistently set up
linux machine (and even MacOS is a little clunky in comparison). "pen capable
2-in-1" is a very specific requirement that means nothing to me and (I would
guess) 95% of the users.

In my biased sample of the world, PCs have gone back to being work devices,
and everything else is being done on the phone, with cloud sync bridging the
gaps. I know a few people who bought a 2-in-1 but no one uses them except as a
laptop except on very very rare occasions.

~~~
pjmlp
Surely not an Android nor ChromeOS user I would guess.

Where are the telemetry setting again?

~~~
beagle3
On android they are called "Google Play Services". I'm an incidental Android
user, but last I tried removing them, that did stop the telemetry (and killed
a lot of functionality, but my phone is still usable for my usage).

No idea about ChromeOS - my chromebook runs Arch ....

------
maga
Two things on my wishlist as a developer:

1\. Decoupling Edge updates from Windows updates for quicker adoption.

2\. Custom Elements as the basic feature for Web Components.

~~~
vbezhenar
Edge is a Windows component, why decouple its updates? Is there any problems
with quick windows updates? Ordinary users can't even disable updates now, so
it shouldn't be a problem.

~~~
ohitsdom
Why tie one program's update cycle to the update cycle of the entire OS? It
would unnecessarily slow down updates to Edge.

This is the opposite strategy that Microsoft adopted with .NET Core, where
everything is being moved to smaller, individual packages so they can be
updated on their own schedule instead of being tied to the overall framework
version.

------
jillesvangurp
The browser wars are back; that's a good thing. The web started moving forward
again since Firefox upped their game on the performance and ux front. I
converted back (from Chrome) about a year ago and haven't looked back.

MS has been bleeding market share for a long time. The IE to Edge transition
basically fragmented their market, destroyed their brand name, and they never
really got back the market share they had gotten used to with Edge. Most
people I use that actually use windows, have Chrome or Firefox as their main
browser. Apple has the same problem with Safari. I only ever use it to
download Firefox or Chrome. Mobile browsers are completely dominated by Chrome
and Safari. MS killed their mobile platform and basically serves a niche
market for people that really want a MS branded platform there. I actually use
Firefox on Android and like it a lot but I'm a minority.

IMHO wasm is approaching the point where it will (finally) create a viable
ecosystem for languages other than javascript to be used for mainstream web
development. MS, is well positioned with their tool chains to take advantage
of that. So, not strange to see MS investing there. Though I do think they
need to cut their losses and put their money behind either Chrome or Firefox
and retire their in house browsers. Edge at this point is not an easy sell.
They did the right thing on mobile killing of windows phone and eliminating
that as an internal distraction and I don't see them getting away with having
any edge only websites these days.

~~~
NiveaGeForce
There is no need for MS to abandon Edge, especially when OS integration is
going to be more important in the near future. Chrome and Firefox are also not
as resource efficient on Windows, which his especially important on battery
powered Windows devices. Same as on Mac OS, where you use Safari, if you value
your battery life.

Also there will be new mobile Windows devices very soon.
[https://www.windowscentral.com/upcoming-microsoft-
hardware-w...](https://www.windowscentral.com/upcoming-microsoft-hardware-
watch-out-over-next-year-or-so)

~~~
jillesvangurp
I imagine maintaining it is a big effort and keeping up an even bigger one.
Sure they make billions, but still. What are they really getting out of this
at this point.

~~~
TimJYoung
For one, they're getting a platform for UWP applications that are written in
JS, which I would guess is pretty important.

------
martin_drapeau
The article I find weak. They state things like 'an average memory savings of
7%' and 'up to 2.5x faster' without providing details. I would like to see
benchmarks. Then again, I don't really care. Chrome has won the game on
Windows.

Beyond that, I feel people who have chosen Chrome as a browser on Windows will
be very hard or impossible to switch because of their browser history,
passwords and so forth is saved and carried over across devices.

~~~
giancarlostoro
Speak for yourself, Firefox has been good to me, and without phoning back home
to Google. Facebook & Google Containers are great.

Browsers are like text editors, opinions and (pardon my French) like assholes,
everyone has one, but nobody likes anybody else's...

------
ralusek
"Good ideas, thanks."

\- V8 team

------
shultays
They should just add buttons to download chrome/firefox/opera. That is all
Edge users needs at this point

------
darrensw777
Seriously Microsoft -

let addOne = (x) => {x + 1};

That is such a basic syntax error it's unbelievable that whoever wrote it
didn't see it, and whoever proofread it didn't see it either.

~~~
kylealden
"teh" is a basic spelling error, but I bet you've let it slip through
somewhere before

------
magnat
> our early experiments show an average memory savings of 7% from this and a
> few other memory improvements

This seems little. I wonder if they knew it beforehand and decided it is worth
the effort, or overestimated potential memory savings.

> Chakra was able to reduce RegExp bytecode memory in some popular extensions
> in this release by up to 10%

Same as above. My current total size of ad filter rules is less than 1MB. Even
if all of them were RegExps and bytecode representation was few times larger
than raw rules, that would be quite insignificant gain.

~~~
dictum
Some optimizations compound. Skipping anything that doesn't pass some
impressive threshold (20%? 30%?) is the path to 500MB about:blank tab
processes.

