
Oracle’s TikTok deal accomplishes nothing - FillardMillmore
https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/14/21436035/tiktok-oracle-deal-bytedance-president-trump-safety
======
vezycash
Used the app for a few days, and realized that keeping TikTok out of the hands
of US tech companies is best for the users.

1\. Registration not needed - without nagging. First thing Microsoft would
have done is to require signup to use.

2\. (Most important) copyright hunters will have a harder time ruining the
experience.

3\. Includes the ability to DOWNLOAD videos! (this blows my mind. I mean,
consider the cat and mouse game google and others play to make video downloads
difficult/impossible)

~~~
nikkwong
Yeah. This kind of interface problem is absolutely mind blowing to me. iOS
especially always feels almost dumb enough to be unusable to me in comparison
with my computer. For example, the other day I just wanted to download an Mp3
to my phone so I'd be able to play it at night with the cellular network
turned off.

It ended up taking almost an hour to figure out. Downloading a file to the
filesystem is nigh impossible on iOS, and there are no native apps which
helped with the problem. I had to jump from questionable app to questionable
app until one would let me "paste a youtube link in" which eventually worked;
albeit, it still won't let me play my new song in the native music app! It
feels like user hostility and it surprises me that this behavior doesn't drive
more people wild.

~~~
formerly_proven
Try using a mp3 or whatever as a ringtone or alarm tone. _Laughs_ We don't do
that around here. I'm not even sure you can _buy_ extra ringtones from the app
store. Think different. And with different I mean e unison.

~~~
beardbound
I made my own ring tone the other day because I recorded something I wanted to
use. It's possible. Monstrous pain, but possible. You have to convert it to
AAC, then import it to iTunes then sync it over. It was about the same effort
of getting a ringtone on my feature phone in the early/mid 2000s. That seems
insane to me these days.

------
Firebrand
Is there anyone that comes out worse from the U.S. + China TikTok saga than
Kevin Mayer?

He left leading Disney's streaming division after being passed over for CEO to
become Bytedance's COO and CEO of TikTok, only to leave three months later
during the company's toughest time.

Now we learn Bytedance isn't actually selling its operations to Oracle and the
the most valuable startup in the world marches on to market dominance without
him. Huge reputation hit.

~~~
blackrock
This might just save Bytedance/TikTok. Any word on when they will go public?

Their TikTok app sort of has first-mover-advantage in the new realm of AI-
recommendation-engine that actually is worthwhile. Their AI algorithm is the
key.

Netflix and YouTube uses the same algorithm for video recommendations, but to
be honest, that implementation is not as relevant in adding more value to
those companies.

~~~
genericacct
I'm an avid tt user but frankly their algo is little more than "show them
videos from their area". They used to allow you to ignore videos from certain
users but the feature was retired. Their recommendation engine is on the same
level as youtube's and probablt not as good as spotify's algo.

As I've said before: try using tiktok and tapping "not interested" on any food
video that comes up. After a month of doing this they will still show you food
videos in the fyp.

Their feed is extremely edited by their moderators and AI has very little to
do with it.

------
nine_zeros
It does SOMETHING.

It paves the way to normalizing corruption from the highest level in America.
This means businesses with US operations (US businesses as well as foreign
businesses) will forever be aware of this corruption and try to curry favor
with the highest levels. If they don't curry favor, they will find other ways
or simply avoid the American market. This means America is now more like third
world democracies than a real pioneer of freedom.

Thus, the deal accomplished something that forever scars business in the US.

~~~
leptons
> That makes it less of a sale and more of a glorified hosting deal. It lets
> Trump say he’s solved the problem but doesn’t do much else. [from the
> article]

Trump is in every way no different than a 3rd world dictator. And this is just
yet one more way.

~~~
DudeInBasement
It's not Trump, it's presidential powers.

Over time, the congress has 'delegated' more and more powers to the president
making the US more and more a revolving dictatorship.

~~~
newen
Too true. In most other countries, no one office holds this much power.

------
zwieback
The current government being Ellison-friendly probably helps this deal over
some other possible configurations.

~~~
take_a_breath
Maybe the opposite is true? Ellison being administration-friendly acted as a
stalking horse and gets the deal because it doesn't really change TikToc's
business, but makes for a campaign press-release.

------
tschwimmer
I don't understand why the Verge is framing this as likely to be approved. It
seems like the Gov't. told Bytedance to divest from US Operations, Bytedance
refused to divest and instead set up this trusted tech partner thing, which
means that no IP will be change hands and control will still be maintained.

This deal seems not to meet the requirements set out by the US Gov't. Have the
goalposts been moved or will this deal be rejected?

~~~
evan_
It will be approved, the goal was to put it in a place where the US government
(read: trump goons) could control and monitor it, and Oracle is such a place.
Larry Ellison is a huge trump donor so there’s zero chance it gets held up.

~~~
joncrane
So this is basically telling China:

Hey we know you're spying using TikTok. Share the tool you use to spy so we
can see, too.

China said: OK fine but you can only spy on your own citizens. Plus we also
still get to.

Is that right?

~~~
evan_
yes but not just spy, they're eager to use the algorithm for propaganda
purposes. Having it run by a trump loyalist is the outcome they wanted,
they're going to turn it into Fox News for gen z.

~~~
Spivak
This is such a weird take as someone who is on TikTok and really enjoys it.
The app is a just mirror for your interests with an insanely good discovery
system. Whatever you like and interact with it shows you more of and it tests
the waters occasionally to try and find new things you might like.

My TikTok is cooking, home decor, gardening, fashion, makeup, pop punk music,
longboarding, bullet journaling, and mental health.

Like you could be right that TikTok will change for the worse maliciously but
such a change would kill what makes it worth using.

~~~
evan_
It would be pretty easy for the algorithm to be nudged a little so that you
start seeing more and more mental health tiktokkers who suggest that your
mental wellness would be improved if you started reading about qanon, or long
boarders who also like to talk about putting immigrants in concentration
camps.

~~~
tupputuppu
I'm sorry if I'm daft just are you jokin or not?

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wombatmobile
The deal saves face for the president, and moves American business culture a
step in the direction of China's.

------
g42gregory
I would like to understand if Oracle gets to see the user data. If yes, that
might be a good deal for them because the data, especially at such large
scale, is very valuable.

In this case, they would not need TikTok's algorithms, as they can
develop/train their own from TikTok's data.

If Oracle can not see the user data, then it's just a glorified hosting deal,
as people mentioned.

~~~
Spivak
I mean that’s still a pretty good deal for Oracle since they could use a high-
visibility customer that uses Oracle’s cloud.

~~~
jmpman
And eliminates TikTok from Google cloud.

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sarah180
> "It lets Trump say he’s solved the problem but doesn’t do much else."

If you're in ByteDance's shoes, this sounds like a perfect counteroffer to the
US government position. If you believe the US concern might be more politics
than governance, you offer a solution that gives a political win with minimal
operational impact.

------
pphysch
It actually accomplishes the 1-2 goals of the operation:

* Political win for Trump being "hard on China"

* Paycheck for Trump's donor Ellison

Let's not pretend that there was any legitimate national security threat
coming from the funny video app. That was and is a yellow peril fantasy from
the outset.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
You’re very wrong on the security threat. I think people just like to dismiss
anything if Trump also said it. Nobody should be using TikTok and we have said
this for a while.

[https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-
tech/ne...](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-
tech/news/tiktok-china-data-privacy-lawsuit-bytedance-a9230426.html)

[https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/26/reddit-ceo-tiktok-is-
funda...](https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/26/reddit-ceo-tiktok-is-
fundamentally-parasitic/)

~~~
pphysch
These allegations apply to virtually every social media SaaS.

You're fooling yourself if you think this TikTok debacle is anything but an
desperate assault on a foreign company by sinophobes and competitors. And
Trump's capitulation confirms that!

~~~
lawnchair_larry
You’re fooling yourself if you think this is somehow racist.

~~~
pphysch
It varies from person to person. Many people are legitimately miseducated
about topics like China, communism, etc. and buy into the absurd "comic book
villain" canards because that is all that Western corporate media exposes them
to.

However, others come from a genuine belief in Western (white Anglo)
racial/political supremacy and see the peaceful rise of China as an
existential threat to that concept of supremacy and Western civilization.
Which is equally absurd.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
Neither of those. You also have a questionable definition of peaceful. Are you
not familiar with the human rights issues that still exist?

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Ericson2314
Wishful thinking, but I hope ByteDance could somehow make Lary Ellison
miserable out of this. Now that would be Justice.

------
znpy
Nothing except Larry Elison being able to say "Heeeyyy... How do you do,
fellow kids?"

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qtplatypus
Didn't Oracle get founded to supply the CIA with data management technology?

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carriganisms
"That makes it less of a sale and more of a glorified hosting deal. It lets
Trump say he’s solved the problem but doesn’t do much else."

This is exactly the first thing that popped into my mind when I read about the
deal.

------
trident1000
As others have pointed out this deal is absurd. Its not about user data its
about manipulation of the US populous through unknown algos by the Chinese
Communist Party. They're all over western social media as well with cells and
bots. Both things should be dealt with.

