
Red Dawn in Lapland - Thevet
https://www.outsideonline.com/2267491/red-dawn-lapland
======
joelrunyon
Terribly interesting.

I ran an ultra marathon in Lapland last winter and it's an incredible, surreal
place.

Also, it was very interesting to see the pseudo-paranoia some of our hosts
(here and in Estonia) had about Russia. One made the point to me that "your
paranoia is justified when you've been occupied on and off so many times over
the last century."

~~~
mstade
The paranoia is real. I'm of Swedish-Baltic descent and since a very early age
was taught that Russians are not to be trusted, for the very reason you
mention (occupation.) This paranoia runs very deep in Baltic culture, in my
experience, however in Swedish culture much less so – presumably because we
don't share a border with Russia.

Not gonna lie, when Russia entered Crimea I got a pit in my stomach.

~~~
walkingolof
Dont know if your old enough to done military service in Sweden, but as the
saying goes, all guns points the east. There is no confusion about why we are
rebuilding our defense for in Sweden. We have +3000 KM coast line in Sweden,
large part in the Baltics, so we too share a border with Russia.

In any case if you forgot:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363)

~~~
mstade
Fair enough, but no land border, which significantly simplifies the logistics
of an attack.

My point about the nonchalance in Swedish culture towards Russian aggression
however is less about those involved or otherwise supportive of the military –
they are all but certain to keep it top of mind – but with the rest who seem
to either actively campaign against the military under some naive assumption
that "surely not here, we're friends!" or simply don't care.

Swedes simply don't have that deep rooted paranoia (for lack of better word –
strong worry perhaps) that you'll see in for instance the Baltic states. Quite
possibly because while we may have had incidents, there have been no
occupation or all out conflict for so long while with the Baltic states, and
indeed Finland, it's still fresh in mind.

------
fishcolorbrick
@PeopleOfFinland, one of those Twitter accounts that is run by a different
person every week, was ran by a Saami indigenous person native to Lapland last
week and they had some criticism of this style of article where Lapland is
portrayed as wilderness without reference to the Saami, who've lived there for
10k years.

[https://twitter.com/PeopleOfFinland/status/95006224332396954...](https://twitter.com/PeopleOfFinland/status/950062243323969542)

~~~
bmelton
Coincidentally, in looking for Christmas movies for the holidays, I stumbled
across "Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale[1]". I won't go into spoilers, but a)
it was an unexpectedly smart horror film , and b) seemed to be rooted in
actual mythology. Of course, as I knew nothing of the Saami people of Lapland,
I started delving into them, their associations with Santa and Christmas,
etc., and learned that they've been treated with a great deal of
disrespect[2], which actually help to put some parts of the movie in context.

Particularly disturbing to me was this passage in the Wiki:

    
    
        The genetic makeup of Sami people has been extensively studied for as 
        long as such research has been in existence. Ethnographic photography 
        of the Sami began with the invention of the camera in the 19th century.[137] 
        This continued on into the 1920s and 1930s, when Sami were photographed 
        naked and anatomically measured by scientists, with the help of the 
        local police—sometimes at gunpoint—to collect data that would justify 
        their own racial theories.
    

[1] -
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401143/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401143/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)

[2] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#Discrimination_aga...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#Discrimination_against_the_Sami)

~~~
WillyOnWheels
best Sami movie is
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder_(1987_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder_\(1987_film\))

------
Jhsto
I think self-sufficiency is also worth mentioning. The state owns a monopoly
in railways and a stake in a national airline. Also, most equipment is
produced within Finland (Nokia even made assault rifle ammunition at one
point), supposedly to minimize shortage in case of war.

Moreover, about survival, I recall tactics for nuclear war. The instructions
were to take cover and use spruce branches to shake off the fallout, and then
continue fighting.

~~~
kaitai
I seem to remember something about fireplaces or wood stoves being required in
new construction, as well, in order to maintain energy independence on an
individual-house basis if necessary.

~~~
jpalomaki
It is not so uncommon to have problems with electricity distribution during
heavy snow fall in the country side. Especially when the temperature is close
to zero, the snow is heavy and may cause the trees to bend on power lines
causing power outages.

------
sbmthakur
I believe Russian paranoia in Finland is justified. And recalling how Fins
cozied up to the Nazis, I guess it's pretty much same for the Russians.

~~~
jacquesm
> And recalling how Fins cozied up to the Nazis

Not until after they were rebuffed by Sweden and Great Britain, there was no
way they were going to stand up to Russia in the longer term without outside
help.

~~~
nikanj
We would have preferred a deal with the devil, but Hitler had tanks and guns.

------
walkingolof
Factoid: Large areas of both Finland and Sweden has been historically called
Lapland, I never know which one they write about when you see it in a
headline.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sápmi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sápmi)

------
huhtenberg
One thing to keep in mind is that Finland was a part of the Russian Empire
from 1806 to 1917. It had a fair amount of autonomy, but it was a part of
Russia still. The "Winter War" was in 1939, which puts it just 20 years after
Fins used the post-revolution mess and declared their independence.

------
pmoriarty
Fascinating article, but I wish it had also described what was happening on
the Russian side of the border.

The Finns are not the only ones who've learned lessons from the Winter War. If
Russia has any plans for another invasion, you can be sure they would be keen
not to get humiliated a second time. No doubt the Russians are making their
own contingency plans, and undergoing their own cold-weather training in
freezing terrain that Russia itself has no shortage of. It's unlikely that
they would go in to Finland unprepared again.

~~~
jacquesm
Homecourt advantage.

------
Zeebrommer
Times have changed. If Russia were to invade Finland today, they wouldn't do
it in the midst of winter, with large armies along roads that can easily be
cut off. I think the Fins are right in preparing for the worst, or as the
department of Defense puts it "messaging about where the limits are". I am
very curious about what kind of warfare they are expecting from the east
though.

~~~
jernfrost
I think you overestimate the Russians grossly. They screwed up in countless
wars since then against small nations. They couldn't take out Czeczenia. They
failed in Afghanistan. Why should they succeed in Finland.

Russia is capable of dealing with long drawn out battles on home turf. They
have not displayed that great ability to invade. To be real, neither has
really the US either.

You can't underestimate an opponent fighting on home turf for their own
independence against an opponent, where the soldiers don't really see the
reason why they are invading in the first place.

Also remember for whatever tech or equipment the Russians have. They have
really shitty democratic traditions. They don't let their men work
independently. History has shown again and again that top heavy armies are
ineffective.

It is how Israel beat 3x bigger Arab armies, even when the Arabs had better
tech.

~~~
linkregister
> They have not displayed that great ability to invade. To be real, neither
> has really the US either.

Russian and American forces successfully invaded German-occupied territory and
Germany in the second world war.

~~~
Systemic33
Invasion != Liberation

~~~
tsukikage
It's one of them irregular verbs, innit. I liberate, you intervene, he/she/it
invades.

------
WillyOnWheels
photos of the course the Finnish forces invited the US squad to

[https://imgur.com/gallery/Wc3P1](https://imgur.com/gallery/Wc3P1)

------
brabel
They are glorifying a brutal war that nobody could win. Sad to see war
preparation rather than friendship and dialog in response to instability.

~~~
jacquesm
When you have a dictatorship next door that has already invaded at least one
other country recently being prepared is a pretty good strategy.

~~~
brabel
You're buying into the media narrative which paints Russia as the devil.
Russia is not a dictatorship, Putin has overwhelming support from the
population but could be ousted by elections quite easily. The Ukraine conflict
is far more complex than you see on the news. I have family in Ukraine and
know that Russia actually had some good reasons to take Krimea back (it was
Russia for hundreds of years and most people living there are ethnic
Russians), most of the population there is happy about it (not comparable to
Finland at all).

~~~
classicsnoot
It is hard to measure popular support for a guy that controls the state
apparatuses for secret policing and surveillance. I actually like Putin, but i
am an authoritarian hawk, so that is no ringing endorsement. I studied under
Alex Moytle, a Ukrainian Specialist, and a day didn't go by that Putin wasn't
discussed. The joke was always about the official government pollster calling
the average Russian and asking them who they support... on their landline
which was set up by the official government supported telecom. "Da tovarisch,
of course i fully support Putin!" Even funnier is when RF supporters say that
the Crimean population supported the invasion. "hello citizen, i am man in
unmarked tactical gear with totally Hungarian rifle! Do you support the side
with a full air wing of Hind Ds flying over you at this moment?" The argument
for majority support is pointless if there is no way to accurately gauge true
sentiment. Best to leave the argument out when justifying an illegal invasion
of sovereign territory.

~~~
brabel
But much earlier than the Russian annexation happened, there was plenty of
evidence of Krimea wanting to leave Ukraine... You can travel there right now
and talk to people! Almost no one wants to be part of Ukraine!

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-
year-a...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-
russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/#3a5bf2ab510d)

Seems like some people just refuse to see that?! Why??? Who is really
brainwashed here?

~~~
classicsnoot
This highlights a fundamental disagreement when it comes to establishing
sovereignty. "Self determination" is the casus belli du jour (my god english
is a roller coaster) of the post-cold war period. Kosovo gets to pretend to be
a nation, and Transnistria gets 5+ official names and zero recognition. If you
make it an Enlightenment style argument and arrive at sovereignty from some
kind of expression of individuality, then you are inviting a world of endless
Balkanization. If you look at sovereignty as a state at which societies within
a hierarchy of civilization can arrive at, you create the necessary
environment for an equilibrium of a sort, which is objectively more peaceful
than fractured democracy. All this is to say that just because Chinatowns
across the US decide to declare their allegiance to China does not mean the US
has a moral obligation to recognize them OR that China can send soldiers on
"working vacations" to the US front while supplying the dissidents via most
likely San Francisco.

------
Bromskloss
Oh, I thought we were talking about something else: _Space Invasion of
Lapland_

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Invasion_of_Lapland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Invasion_of_Lapland)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Dxo8tYU3M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Dxo8tYU3M)

------
minipci1321
possibly of interest:

[http://beaufortmagazine.fi/2014/08/seven-years-
sailing/](http://beaufortmagazine.fi/2014/08/seven-years-sailing/)

------
ensiferum
I think the best defense for Finland would be to have a couple of nukes
pointed at Moscow. You know.. just as a stabilizer.

~~~
alkonaut
I doubt nukes are a good idea for a small country, but you need a high
threshold for the aggressor, I.e “we know you’ll defeat us in a week if you
try, but it will always cost more than you are willing to pay”. A good second
strike capability is key. Sadly both Finland and Sweden reduced that
capability in the last 20 years (see e.g Sweden’s road airbase System).
Defense is only a four now after Crimea - and a proper invasion defense might
never exist again. A more reasonable defense than both nukes and a defense
against a massive invasion would be a second strike ability through sub
launched (conventional) cruise missiles or similar. Something that hurts and
also is guaranteed to last a week.

