
Tizen - new Android competitor - mkgobaco
https://www.tizen.org/
======
dubfan
I had the misfortune of being tasked with developing a tech demo for an
embedded version of Tizen for one of the Tizen stakeholders. Despite the
insistence by the client that Tizen 2.0 was demo-ready, it quickly became
clear that it was in extremely early alpha stages and nowhere near ready for
even a tech demo. The networking stack was extremely buggy and would fail with
too many concurrent connections. The web runtime was dog slow and doing a
simple DOM insertion would cause the system to lock up for up to 20 seconds.
All the while we were promised that a better version was "coming soon" and
would be ready for the scheduled demonstration. Of course, this never
happened, the demo was called off, some business people lost their jobs and I
quit the company. Overall, it was a massive embarrassment for everyone
involved.

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moxie
Because OEMs like Samsung have done such an incredible job modifying and
skinning Android that I'm sure we can expect great things when they're
responsible for the entire experience from the ground up?

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
You say that but I was playing with a (older) Nexus running vanilla ICS "as it
was meant to be" the other day and moaning about something (I was attempting
to add something to the home screen I think). A couple of the Android users in
the office came over to see what I was moaning about.

After 60 seconds of looking at it they both admitted that the thing I was
moaning about was horrible but that it wasn't something they had to deal with
on their Galaxy S3s. When they showed me the S3 it's mechanism was definitely
more intuitive (at least to the three of us).

While I'm not defending the skinning efforts of OEMs generally, I don't think
the historical position of "it's all awful" is necessarily true any more. Sure
there are bad things in there but there were plenty of bad things in early
versions of Android. Just as Google learned there are signs that the OEMs are
learning too.

~~~
slacka
I second this. I've gone back and forth between the vanilla CM9 build and the
Samsung touchwiz on my Galazy S2. While the CM9 feels faster and cleaner, it's
all lacks some key features. For example the vanilla music player doesn't
support displaying ID3 MP3 lyrics, a feature my windows mobile phone could do
back in 2003. This feature is critical for podcast courses with embedded
lecture notes. And yes, the widgets work better in touchwiz too. In the end, I
always go back to the more feature complete touchwiz.

~~~
andybak
Touchwiz is definitely the 'last worst' of the Androids and some of the
feature tweaks are/were definite improvements.

Having said that I've got a fairly close to vanilla Jelly Bean on my SGSII now
and I can't think of anything I miss from stock.

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gareim
I want it to succeed so badly because I was a huge fan of the Nokia N900 and
the N9. But it won't. They haven't released the OS yet and it already feels
dead in the water.

The first video I can find of "Tizen 2.0" on YouTube is from 3 months ago and
shows a very slow interface. It resembles Android a lot, but Android is much
faster as of 4.0+, so why would anyone use Tizen? There are no apps to
showcase as well; if you're gonna make a new smartphone platform, get people
to make apps.

There's nothing on the Tizen page that makes me think that developers will
find any interest here. Combined with BBX OS and WP8 in addition to the
already vibrant Android and iOS ecosystems, why would anyone make a Tizen app?

And so this is doomed to fail like Maemo/Meego, it seems. Maybe I'm wrong. Or
maybe some company will once again adopt it and merge the code making it even
more of a mongrel.

~~~
shmerl
Tizen suffers from the same problem as Meego did - too much corporate control
and no open development whatsoever.

If you liked N900/N9 and Maemo/Meego - you'll better like Mer and derivatives.
They have more chances to succeed, since they don't suffer from the risk of
some company pulling the plug from the whole project.

~~~
rwmj
_Tizen suffers from the same problem as Meego did - too much corporate control
and no open development whatsoever._

Whoa hang on there .. compared to what? Android?

~~~
shmerl
I compared Tizen and Meego. Meego development and direction was too tightly
controlled by Nokia (and Intel). When they quit - the project fell apart.
Community forked it as Mer (Meego Relaunched), which has open development. Mer
however is only the core. End user distributions are based on it. So far there
are Nemo, Plasma Active and Sailfish.

------
shellehs
Fortunately, I have touched the early version of Tizen and the prototype base
on Tizen. On the prototype machine I saw real "multi-tasks" like we have on
laptop, and terminal application ran sweetly.

I asked one of their consultant a question:"Meego replaces Symbian, then Tizen
replaced Meego, then who will be the next to replace Tizen?" At that time,
Tizen had Cooperation with Samsung. Then, Windows replaced Tizen, to Nokia,
big thanks, Elop!

Now we have Jolla, Ubuntu, Firefox, and so on. Along with iOS and Android,
make me think of PC desktop, there we have Windows, Mac OS, huge amount of
Linux Distros. Could the circumstances on mobile os platform as well as
desktop os platform?

Again. Why Apple showing off their amount of apps? Apps is the key. Apps bring
possibility to achieve any tasks, not the _OS_ , especially for a mobile os
who has not prepared for its UI guideline. I imagine that some apps have back
buttons, some don't; some back buttons on the left-top and others on the
bottom. When you want to do some operation you have to locate first where the
right button was placed.

All it did is just provide a opportunity, that out of control of Android and
iOS, the region there people hate close and love openness. I really hope Tizen
will be successful, that's also means Linux's success, the openness's success.

~~~
reidrac
I think you're missing one point. The PC market is open to OS developers and
users, there's a well known spec and the user can install any OS he wants, but
that's not possible (with some minor exceptions, and you may depend on
Android) in the mobile market.

Until the OS is reasonably independent of the device, I can't see how Ubuntu,
FirefoxOS, or Tizen could compete if they can't access to users (even if some,
like Mozilla, have deals with phone companies; do I need to buy a specific
phone to run their OS?).

~~~
shellehs
Sorry I do't catch up your opinion very clearly.

You can't legally install Mac OS on PC's. You can install Some Linux on, maybe
almost PCs but still have some troubles. PCs have restrict hardware standards.
But Mobile devices have not explicitly.

Users can also install other mobile OS on their mobile devices, for example
HTC's HD2, it not only can install Windows mobile/XP/7, Linux, Android, also
can install dual-OS. As well as Samsung's Nexus, HTC G1...

Firefox OS at first showed us on a Samsung's Galaxy III (?) device. Ubuntu on
Galaxy Nexus. They just don't expect to use pre-installed Android devices to
run their OS, OS doesn't make money without hardware devices and apps.

They have their own markets. Like Firefox, they promise to provide cheap
devices, the main market may depend on South America I don't know.

~~~
reidrac
Well, if you can't install Mac OS on a PC is because the software vendor
doesn't want you to do so.

But get any PC and you can install several OSes without being too picky on the
hardware. It's accepted that the hardware and the software are different
things.

If I want to try FirefoxOS I don't wont to buy a FirefoxOS mobile phone, and
it looks like that's going to be the only way.

~~~
shellehs
Completely, NO.

Not the software vendor, it is Apple who does not allow all but Apple's own
machines to run Mac OS. It's ilegal but NOT impossible, we see a lot of
Hackintosh.

So, you can taste Firefox OS now, it is difficulty as installing Mac OS on
PCs, maybe more difficulty. If Firefox OS is popular, I believe you can see
more and more devices runs Firefox OS who have pre-installed other OS.

What they did just promise that theoretically speaking, you can run Firefox OS
on any devices running Android, whatever Tizen, Ubuntu, Firefox OS. Linux
means run anywhere, any platform, impossible. And anyway, Android based on
Linux.

~~~
reidrac
> Not the software vendor, it is Apple who does not allow all but Apple's own
> machines to run Mac OS.

I'm confused here. I thought Apple is Mac OS' vendor. So, yes... as I said
it's because Apple. If the OS vendor wants it to be run on a PC, there's no
special requirement.

Anyway, that's not the relevant part of my original comment. I can't see how
FirefoxOS will be popular if installing it is difficult (even hacky) or if it
only works on some specific devices.

We need a market were you buy a phone (that comes with an OS), but you're free
to install anything else because hardware != software.

EDIT: typo

~~~
shellehs
Install anything easily? Never mind. If you install various OSes on your
mobile device, you are not _using_ it, you are _playing_ with it.

Users don't mind the OS, users don't pay for operating system, users pay for
tools, pay for resolutions. They need highly integrated user experience to
complete their tasks, so hardware is very important to software.

Who needs a market with free and easy OS installing? Who needs to switch
his/her phone's OS? Geeks, or who wants to act like a geek.

~~~
reidrac
You could argue the same about Linux. I installed my first distro back in
1998. I wasn't forced to buy a PC with Linux installed in order to start using
it, and it was easier than it is today to install _any OS_ in your mobile
phone.

How many Linux users are out there? Are all of them "geeks"?

EDIT: with _anything_ I meant _any OS_

~~~
shellehs
So what your conclusion?

Install Linux on PC is easier than on Mobile devices? Phone and MID and Tablet
and Pad?

I tried hackintosh on my HP laptop(R.I.P), I failed. I tried

I tried to install FreeBSD and Fedora from USB sitck, I failed, my colleagues
failed as well.

I tried to burn OpenSUSE...iso, I failed

I am using ubuntu and fedora on my thinkpad, occasionally using OpenSUSE, all
upgraded to the newest stable versions, they never run smoothly and
productively like Mac OS on my Mac.

I tried arch, I gave up cause the endless options confused me and made me
agony.

You don't need to be forced buy mobile devices to use another os, as I
mentioned before, ubuntu showed off their mobile os on Samsung Galaxy Nexus,
Firefox used Galaxy II of III I'm not sure, if they can why you can't?

mobile devices using different CPU structures,

My point:

Linux was, is and will be for "geeks", not for people who use computer as
assistance/tool for completing tasks, just like note, pen, phone, ... Linux is
always falling behind the hardware evolution. So it has to adapt hardware
drivers. Linux never does things like Mac or Windows does.

You even can't simply complete a task, such as customize desktop theme, listen
music and watch video you download from internet on just online, your favorite
services like google drive, evernote, Cisco IPsec VPN, without tricking or
hacking.

------
andrewguenther
This website really tells me nothing about what Tizen is, what it looks like,
what hardware it runs on, or really any sort of practical information
whatsoever. But hey, at least I can get the SDK?

~~~
shellehs
They just did not know exactly how to describe that correctly. I have to say
they do not see very clearly what they are doing and where they are going.
They want follow Android's route, catch up then surpass?

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drusenko
<https://www.tizen.org/about/devices>

that's about all you need to know right there. support is planned for
smartphones, tablets, netbooks, in-vehicle infotainment, and smart tvs, and
it's not even released yet?

~~~
reidrac
Well, archive.org has a version of the "about" page from Oct 2011 that reads
almost the same. According to the Wikipedia the Tizen project was created back
in Sep 2011 (renamed from LiMO, that was founded in 2007 and had released
several version of their platform).

So it looks like they've been in the business for some time, I guess they're
aiming to a market that is a moving target.

~~~
drusenko
exactly, my point is that they need to start by focusing on something smaller
and nailing it, then they can move on to expanding and nailing those areas
too.

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chmike
I'm really not excited about this new OS. What I'm looking for is an open
hardware standard like the PC AT was in its time. What I'm also looking for is
a development framework which makes the hardware differences transparent and
makes my code fully portable across all the different devices. As a user I
don't want to be locked in.

Android development tutorials and using Eclipse give me head aches. I'm using
QtCreator for years, even for pure C/C++ programs, and it really rocks.

~~~
yareally
Might want to check out Ubuntu for Phones due out in a month or so for the GSM
Galaxy Nexus. Its recommended method of app development is using Qt + QML and
QtCreator.

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jpxxx
It doesn't need to be anything new, radical, or anything of the sort. All it
aims to be is an Android-alike that Google doesn't control. (ideally one that
also enables easy porting of Android code and assets)

With this fixed goal and with Samsung's money, it'll succeed.

~~~
bryne
It might succeed in distribution because they have market share in a portion
of the market largely unconcerned about user experience.

Has any software produced by Samsung ever made you say "I wish I could use
more of this"? Touchwiz?

~~~
mtgx
Samsung tried that with Bada, too. It didn't work. I think people are really
underestimating the power of an ecosystem. Look at WP8 how much it's
struggling in low single digits even after billions invested in deals and
promotions, and money paid to developers to make apps.

Samsung has nothing. It doesn't even have the content Amazon has, which only
got popular with Kindle Fire because people were looking for a "hero" against
the iPad, and their very affordable $200 "Android-based" tablet seemed to be
that one.

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jaytaylor
Is it a competitor to Android in terms of being able to run n the same
hardware? Or is it that it's just another smartphone platform, like 'Droid,
Apple, BlackBerry, etc? All I see listed is that it is a phone platform.

~~~
bryne
It's a Samsung platform, Linux-based. Like Windows 8, many of the services are
HTML5-based; the bundled browser is Webkit and actually tops HTML5 test
benchmarks among mobile browsers: <http://html5test.com/results/mobile.html>

I worked with a company that was halfheartedly pitched a couple of demo
hardware units last year running Tizen 1.0 for evaluation purposes - they
wanted HTML5-based games and apps to bundle with the system or feature
prominently on what I assume is an upcoming app store. I wasn't impressed with
its broken JS support at the time and didn't look into what it would have
taken to rewrite the games to run properly on the platform, but maybe they've
come a long way since then?

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dave1010uk
It looks like Tizen, Ubuntu Mobile and Firefox OS are all going down the HTML5
apps running on Linux kernel route. I really hope applications built for any
of these will run on the other 2 seamlessly.

Are there any technical reasons why one of these OSs will be more successful
than the others or is it all down to marketing and the budgets behind them?

I'm hoping 2013 or 2014 will be the year I can `sudo apt-get install vim`.

------
contingencies
This is great. More fragmentation means FirefoxOS is going to have more time
to build a compelling open experience for the netcitizenry.

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Osiris
It's already at 2.0? Maybe they started at version 2.0 just so they don't seem
so far behind everyone else (Android 4, iOS 6, Windows Phone 8)

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cpeterso
Here is a Tizen family tree, tracing the merges and splits of various mobile
Linux platforms back to 2005:

[https://github.com/kumadasu/tizen-
history/blob/master/tizen-...](https://github.com/kumadasu/tizen-
history/blob/master/tizen-history.pdf)

------
lancewiggs
It sounds trivial, but I don't know how to pronounce Tizen. Nor will many
others without hearing it first. Is it TieZin, Tizzen, Tie Zen? Android, iOS
and Windows are all easy to read and pronounce, so we can and do so. But this
silly little thing slows the word of mouth spread - as few want to commit the
social faux pas of saying something the wrong way. Something to consider for
your own startup.

~~~
spullara
This doesn't matter. I hear people say "I os" and "I O S". No one cares. Most
people will pronounce this one "Samsung" or "Nokia" or whatever company ships
it.

~~~
josteink
In Scandinavia (and other places with strongly Germanic-based languages) "Eeeh
Oh Ess" is probably just as common. Haven't seemed to hurt Apple at all.

Android is Android everywhere though.

~~~
threedaymonk
I've heard plenty of "Yava" for Java in Germany and the Netherlands, too. Java
still seems to be holding its head above the water, nonetheless.

------
venomsnake
So what are the weak points of android that this things removes?

Also why no executive ever took Disrupting 102 - make cost of switching zero.

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aviraldg
Tizen is primarily for phones that straddle the line between dumbphones and
smartphones -- not quite direct competition.

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muyuu
Sceptical about running everything on top of HTML5. Even a specially tailored
JVM has proven challenging to optimise, rendering 512MiB mobile devices into
laggy paging machines.

Apple got something right: compiling to the metal is not obsolete and it won't
be in the foreseeable future. Batteries are not going to last "too long to
matter" and devices are not going to be exceedingly quick for the task, not
any time soon if ever.

It would have been a lot more effective to provide hardware support to
executable code sandboxing than running a sandbox on top of virtualised
hardware. Being Google almost exclusively software people at the time the
Android project was devised, I think they missed big time in the performance
front. But they still made up for it in open fronts and they're leading the
market.

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cientifico
Really funny that in the logo guidelines, they don't use their logo correctly:
<https://www.tizen.org/about/tizen-brand-guidelines>

~~~
cientifico
Nice ! They fix that !

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zmmmmm
Would any vendor except Samsung ever ship a Tizen device? If being under the
influence of a company like Google bothers them, can you imagine how they
would feel about being under Samsung's control?

~~~
rahoulb
I think it's intended as Samsung's plan B if their relationship with Google
sours

~~~
zmmmmm
That's how I would interpret it as well. But then I wonder what are they
hoping to achieve by pitching it as open source. If nobody else is going to
get on board then it's just them playing in their own sand pit.

I'd actually really love for a "true" linux based OS without the limitations
of Android to gain traction, but a single-vendor ecosystem doesn't attract me.

------
Giszmo
If you happen to plan on making yet another mobile OS, make sure it runs
Android apps. Anything that is a burden to the developers will not fly easily.

Bada OS? It's fast, so what? People slowly get that "smart phone with touch
screen and facebook" is not really a selling point and start to look for
Google if not iPhone.

------
ezequiel-garzon
Can any of these alternatives prosper if Google provides little or no
integration of its services? Even new iPhone users had to wait quite a bit for
an updated Maps app, which seemed strategically sound... Why would the story
be any better for these unproven alternatives?

------
isarat
Yet another one. It depends on hardware manufactures how they're going to use
and market the products. Though android is open source, it's heavily driven by
Google. It's hard to leave their clutches.

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Tichy
Web site doesn't really say what it is and why I should care.

~~~
CyberFonic
Doesn't seem to do anything that Android and/or Firefox OS doesn't already
deliver. To me it looks like yet another corporate trying to play innovator.

AND ... where are the app developers going to come from? The good ones are
already flat out with IOS & Android and if they have any free bandwidth, then
they'll look at Firefox OS which at least Mozilla behind it and with that
considerable credibility for being able to deliver.

You only need to look at Nokia and HP efforts and how they fizzled to see that
Tizen's chances are limited before it even gets out of the starting gate.

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guilloche
I am expecting a clean linux mobile OS. Android's performance seems worse than
iOS with its java implementation.

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walexander
Does anyone know offhand what kind of minimum system requirements this thing
has? Is it similar to Firefox OS?

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joonix
I'd like something as good as Android JellyBean but for notebooks. I hate
Windows 8, not big on OS X either.

~~~
quink
Android runs on x86 too. In theory, at least :|

~~~
amitdugar
Check out <http://www.android-x86.org/>

From the site :

This is a project to port Android open source project to x86 platform,
formerly known as "patch hosting for android x86 support".

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mtgx
4 years old account, and this is the only submission and comment from the OP.
Samsung employee I assume?

------
mtgx
It would've been interesting if Samsung went with Ubuntu, but this has no
chance. It's just Bada 3.0.

~~~
amitdugar
But this does not mean they won't launch an Ubuntu phone.

I am guessing if there is some market interest in Ubuntu (Phone OS), Samsung
will launch a phone to test waters.

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shmerl
Why can't they base Tizen on Mer?

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drivebyacct2
I can't necessarily say why, but I'm way more interested in Firefox OS
(boot2gecko) than this.

edit: Actually, Tizen looks to support Firefox OS as first-rate (though
Firefox OS apps should run in any browser anyway if it supports the emerging
device apis). Tizen might wind up being the more hacker-targeted device if it
runs Linux and Firefox OS apps. I know it would have my interest as someone
who is pretty much 100% happy with my Galaxy Nexus.

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OGinparadise
Makes perfect sense! Everything in Samsung is riding on Google's good graces
and a company making tens of billions a year needs to have plan B, C and D.

