
Heroku's new $50 and $100 per month database plans - michaelfairley
https://postgres.heroku.com/blog/past/2012/5/3/crane_the_new_50_per_month_production_database_/
======
jstin
Heroku sells convenience, and resells EC2 instances to you. Their previous
dedicated database option, Ronin, cost $200/month. When you connect the dots
that this DB has a 1.7GB cache and that a small instance on EC2 has 1.7GB
memory[1], you start to realize what you're really paying for.

While paying 3.3 times more[2] may be ok for the added simplicity, you have to
wonder if your 'dedicated' database is really just a small instance on EC2? If
it is a larger instance, then you are sharing it with other users.

However, even a small instance is far from not being shared. EC2 has
performance issues, especially small instances. Disk IO is the worst.[3]

Disclaimer: These are all just my observations, and I don't how Heroku
actually configure their Ronin databases. I'd love to be proven wrong, and to
have someone from Heroku explain. But from personal experience with both EC2
and Heroku's Ronin database, if my conclusions are wrong, the results are not.
I've seen very slow performance on the simplest of queries on both
configurations.

[1] <http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/> [2]
<http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/> [3] [http://www.frederico-
araujo.com/2011/12/27/why-ec2-still-sux...](http://www.frederico-
araujo.com/2011/12/27/why-ec2-still-sux-on-disk-io/)

~~~
zokier
I didn't think disk io matters all that much if you fit your data in memory,
which afaik you should if you want any kind of decent performance.

~~~
markatto
Even if your whole data set fits into main memory, writes still have to go to
disk.

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shaggyfrog
If anyone from Heroku is reading, that page is a great example of how poor
contrast results in poor readability. Blue-on-blue text makes me close the
browser tab, and not actually see what you're trying to sell.

~~~
pvh
Many of us are reading. We'll look into increasing the contrast.

~~~
lucian1900
But please don't lay down the torch of dark backgrounds :)

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japhyr
Can somebody clarify which heroku plans are best, as you work from development
through MVP and initial traction? My current understanding is:

Development Stage: Use the free plan.

MVP Stage: When I have an MVP that I'd like to show people and get feedback
on, I'm not sure if I should stay with the free plan, or if I need a paid plan
at this point.

Gaining Traction: Still low overall volume, but consistent users. What is the
cheapest paid plan that works for this stage? Is it the $15 plan, or the $50
plan?

Increasing Traffic: At this point, it's a little more clear that you choose
add-ons to match your specific needs.

I would love it if someone could clarify what kinds of loads each of these
plans could reasonably be expected to handle.

~~~
tomblomfield
The answer to this depends on such a variety of factors that it's impossible
to give a useful answer.

Use something like New Relic to watch your app's performance. If it's
exceeding tolerable limits, you need to change something. This might be a re-
write of your code to reduce load, or pouring more resource into dynos,
workers, database or caching.

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salimmadjd
Heroku is really great to get your started if you don't want to worry about
managing infrastructure. However, you're paying a major premium for that and
you need to have an exit plan from the beginning incase you grow too big and
the costs no longer make sense.

~~~
aculver
I agree with everything you said, except that I don't think you need to spend
any time working on an exit plan until the day you realize you're paying "too
much" (whatever that means to you) for the benefit you're receiving from their
managed hosting. I recommend: Launch on Heroku. Reevaluate that choice on
success.

~~~
Estragon
Surely designing with the eventual migration in mind will reduce the pain in
the end, though.

~~~
WALoeIII
YAGNI - your first problem is getting customers.

~~~
Estragon
Absolutely agree that that is the first priority, but there are many factors
you can keep in mind during development without slowing it down much, and this
is one of them.

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samstokes
Congrats to the Heroku DoD on launching this long-awaited price point!

Can we create Crane followers of a larger master database yet? That would be
really useful - keeping a cheap, eventually-consistent replica around for
backup and analytics.

~~~
freeformz
If you are on an older ronin or fugu you can't. But you can from all other
plans and newer ronin/fugu databases. The limitation on older ronin/fugu
databases is related to: <https://devcenter.heroku.com/changelog-items/37>

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tomfakes
I really like this!

I'm building an app that will eventually use hstore for data. I say
'eventually', because I'm currently using serialized columns on the $15/month
shared plan, and hstore is not yet supported.

At $50/month, this is cheap enough for me to use as a staging server or as a
pre-release server to get hstore across my entire environment.

~~~
freeformz
Then new dev plans support hstore:
[https://postgres.heroku.com/blog/past/2012/4/26/heroku_postg...](https://postgres.heroku.com/blog/past/2012/4/26/heroku_postgres_development_plan/)

~~~
tomfakes
I need a bit more than the approx 5MB of data - much more, but currently less
than 20GB.

I'm kind of in a no-mans land of Heroku data plans - until today!

~~~
freeformz
I'd love it if you used the new dev plan for your staging/dev db needs. This
can help us drive the final limits.

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tomfakes
Can I access the shared DB from outside Heroku?

~~~
freeformz
Yes, you can access the shared dev plan from outside as well as the crane and
kappa plans.

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Timothee
Very cool. I've been looking at spatial databases and the fact that I could
get MongoDB running on a free plan (e.g. with MongoLab and MongoHQ) made me go
that way. (for now)

PostGIS has been available on Heroku's dedicated DBs
(<https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/is-postgis-available>), but the
$200/month was a bit high for early stage. $50 is much more manageable and I
might be looking towards Postgres + PostGIS in the future… (assuming that the
linked post also applies to these new plans)

~~~
freeformz
For now PostGIS is not available on the new crane/kappa plans....

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killion
So if the plans are named after increasingly deadly things the crane is the
least deadly? I guess I could see that.

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mattsoldo
That's right. They are all Japanese things in increasing order of deadliness.

~~~
Danieru
I was curious and the list did not disappoint:
<https://postgres.heroku.com/pricing>

With that said I'm not sure how squid managed to be more dangerous than a
kappa. >Kappa are usually seen as mischievous troublemakers. Their pranks
range from the relatively innocent, such as loudly passing gas or looking up
women's kimonos, to the malevolent, such as drowning people and animals,
kidnapping children, and raping women

~wikipedia

~~~
thinkbohemian
I checked with some Japanese, the word on the street is that Kappa's are
pretty innocuous

~~~
Agathos
It's kind of a love-hate relationship. They can be trouble when they're
feeling mischievous, but if they're happy they'll help you out. The Japanese
will leave gifts at Kappa shrines, just in case.

The best gift is cucumber, which the Kappa can't resist. Don't go swimming in
Japan after eating cucumber, because they will drown you when they smell it on
you.

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dmishe
1tb and backups are nice for $50, i wish them all the best to grow and drop
price more

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RexM
I was just thinking yesterday that their lowest $200/month dedicated plan
seemed like such a leap from their 20GB $15/month shared plan.

~~~
mml
2 weeks ago, i was seriously considering moving off of heroku to roll my own
hstore support. Perfect timing.

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erikpukinskis
For anyone looking to upgrade from the shared database to one of these, I
believe this is the procedure:

[https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/migrating-data-
between...](https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/migrating-data-between-
plans)

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ConstantineXVI
Tried to set up a dev database from the dashboard; got a generic fail message.
Told me why when I tried to add it from the CLI (my acct wasn't verified), may
want to make this clear on the dashboard as well.

~~~
freeformz
This should be fixed now.

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marcelfahle
Damn, this is nice! Thanks Heroku! I love the service, but 200 bucks as the
lowest price point for a dedicated db didn't always make sense to me,
especially in the startup world. This changes everything.

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7952
That's with 1TB of storage!

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mshafrir
Will be interesting to see what Heroku ends up rolling out for the higher-
priced dev database (comparable to the current 20 GB plan).

~~~
100k
They've said they'll release something "at a comparable price point" to the
$15/month shared plan. Hopefully the $50/month database isn't it as that seems
high for hobby projects that outgrow the small dev database.

~~~
pvh
Crane is not intended to be the plan that will fill the role of the existing
$15/mo database. We're still working on that one.

~~~
100k
Awesome, great to hear.

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jalanco
I tried to create a quick "dev" database but got "Cannot create database.
Please try again later."

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jalanco
Okay never mind. I had to verify my account to make it work.

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iamrok
Heroku is my Apple for Dev staff.

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gdsf34dfsg
How stable is the PostGIS beta? Anyone using it

~~~
pvh
Most of our beta-testers have been using it just fine. We had one unlucky soul
who encountered several pernicious bugs over a long period, but at this point
I think they're all sewn up.

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artellectual
This is awesome, been waiting for this.

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marshallp
Azure SQL is only $10 per month for 1GB. Why is heroku so ridiculously more
expensive than them.

~~~
michaelfairley
Heroku is $15 for 20GB.

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treelovinhippie
Still wish they would offer included mySQL (yes postgreSQL has advantages, but
it's a pain in the arse to work with)

~~~
pvh
If the problems you're talking about are installation related (and you're on a
Mac), we've got your back: <http://postgresapp.com>

~~~
treelovinhippie
Nope, not on a Mac (fucking hate it that there are numerous apps for hackers
now that are only made for Mac). This was my first time building a facebook
app, playing with cloud hosting and using postgresql so the entire
installation and use was complicated. I would have thought that since Facebook
is encouraging you guys as the preferred/primary/sponsored cloud host that
you'd provide a database that most people are familiar with - mySQL.

I ended up going with the clearDB addon just to save learning time, but at
$10pm for only 1GB it's definitely a worse plan than the $15pm 20GB postgresql
database you offer.

