

How Samsung is out-innovating Apple - aynlaplant
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/18/tech/gaming-gadgets/samsung-apple-innovation/

======
JumpCrisscross
The unstated nugget is that Samsung's cost of experimentation is lower than
Apple's, which is doubly slammed by being the market leader and possessing a
culture of perfection. This is letting it be the water between Apple's mass
appeal cracks. Whether this is a beachhead or a place to chill until the sun
comes up is uncertain.

~~~
noahl
On a related note, it occurred to me that Microsoft is handicapped by their
culture of doing big releases and not (publicly?) iterating much in between
them. The article makes it sound like Samsung iterates quickly and is very
responsive, whereas both Microsoft and Apple have much longer product
development cycles.

------
wsc981
I'm an Apple-aficionado, so perhaps I'm not completely objective in this
matter, but the article didn't convince me that Samsung is really out-
innovating Apple. Practically the only thing that's being noted is an option
to run apps side-by-side. Personally I don't think it's that big a deal and
I'm not sure Apple will ever build an option like that in iOS.

I think Apple's next big innovation is probably not on the mobile platform,
but in the living room instead. There have been rumours of an Apple-branded TV
for quite some time now and Steve Jobs himself noted in an interview how he
was annoyed that television sets were still pretty hard to use. I'm betting
Apple will release a television in 2013 with no remote control, using Siri
instead. Perhaps a nice iTunes integration as well for on-demand television.
Perhaps Siri-controlled iTunes integration. When that happens people will
remember why Apple is known to innovate and others are known to follow Apple's
lead.

That said, it will be interesting to see what features iOS 7 and the iPhone 6
(5S?) will bring. There's been some changes within Apple. With Jonathan Ive
responsible for UI interaction we might expect some big changes. It will be
interesting to see what his influence will be.

~~~
belorn
> Apple-branded TV

I assume that's different from Apple TV from 2006, which is an HTPC? So we are
talking about the big large screen, but which can not act like a computer
screen. The product currently in heavy decline from the "young" generation ie
those under 40.

Im curios, what benefits would a TV have now days over a home theater system
with a computer screen? Larger display to lower price, but with often lower
resolution*? It seems a odd product feature to base a company future on. The
price difference is also only about 50% cheaper price today on a TV, a number
that has shrunk consistently faster for each year.

~~~
wsc981
It's just me speculating, but I think the television still has plenty appeal.
And actually if Apple will release it, it will be much more of a living room
computer compared to a traditional TV - at least in capabilities, but not so
much in the way we'll interact with it.

I'm sure lots of people still prefer to watch a programme like Game of Thrones
behind a television set in the living room compared to on a tablet, laptop or
PC. People also hate commercials and want on-demand television and there's
still plenty of opportunity in this market (in most of Europe we don't have
Netflix yet, for example and many other on-demand services are rather
expensive).

------
marknutter
This is a fundamental misunderstanding about how Apple does innovation. They
are far less likely to "experiment" on their user base as the author describes
Samsung doing, and often their innovations are pretty incremental but very
well thought out and polished. Some users appreciate Apple's more conservative
approach to innovation, and others find it stifling. Low and behold, there's a
market for both types of people.

~~~
neya
Tell me one thing that's so innovative about Apple, please? Suing people for
rounded corners and not being able to transfer music or files without iTunes
nor not being able to install any third-party apps directly without
Jailbraking isn't exactly innovation.

And, for the record, Apple had ripped off so many features from Android and
re-labeled it as 'revolutionary features'.

~~~
shadesandcolour
Obvious troll is unbelievably obvious. Go ahead and give me something that
Samsung innovated, in a vacuum, without looking at other products and without
help from Google.

~~~
neya
I am not talking on behalf of Samsung, I'm simply talking against Apple. I own
HTC Android phones, they've had a multitude of features well-before Apple
debuted their 'magically life-changing revolutionary' iOS 6.

As for Samsung, without Google's help, I think there is a reason why they're
#1 on the international display market. Do you know how many companies use
Samsung's displays? Even my Sony Vaio and my Sony bravia use their displays
under the hood. The display segment is where one simply cannot sustain without
innovating. Samsung's leadership in displays are evidence that they can
innovate alone, which is the answer to the question you've asked me. I bet the
display with which you're reading HN now, uses Samsung's technology in some
form or the other - That's the depth of their remarkable engineering and
innovation. Can you say the same for Apple? They're just re-packagers. Someone
else manufactures something for them and then they just add their logo and
increase the prices by 4x, which you purchase and don't want to feel bad for,
by labeling rational arguments as trolls on a public forum.

Instead of blatantly labeling me as a troll, I'd love to see you provide
evidence in support of Apple's 'innovation'. Don't talk about profits, just
pure innovation. You'd be surprised how little you have to talk in favor of
(Apple), when it comes to innovation.

~~~
marknutter
Come on, now, all innovation is iterative. Nobody can claim "true innovation."
There will always be someone who did it first but history will remember those
who did it best.

------
kram8
This article is really not worth reading - it has no content which is worth
the time reading. Only the information that "Samsung is innovating at a faster
pace than Apple can" without any evidence of this statement.

------
cubicle67
[http://ihkdesigns.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/idiots-are-
everyw...](http://ihkdesigns.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/idiots-are-everywhere/)

in short: " _I suggest you avoid the article at all costs. It is one of the
most idiotic things I have ever read on the Internet, and I have read every
single article by Dan Lyons!_ "

~~~
criley
The author of that retort redefines "sour grapes". Every quote on that blog is
dripping with Apple-is-god and Android-is-horrific.

In short, it's the kind of tripe he claim's the CNN article is, and it's
absolutely unsubstantiated fanboy drivel.

The way the author casually condescends the digitized stylus and larger size
-- features that drove 15,000,000 sales in under a year -- reminds me of Apple
itself, who likely also writes off this entire market segment.

Honestly, when you get this kind of a vulgar response to your article, you
know you're hitting on a nerve.

And I agree with the original article: Apple's software has been playing
catchup for multiple versions, isn't introducing novel features and is barely
keeping up with the competition.

I agree because I recently ditched iOS for Android for this very reason!

~~~
w0utert
>> _And I agree with the original article: Apple's software has been playing
catchup for multiple versions, isn't introducing novel features and is barely
keeping up with the competition_

Playing catchup with what? Please enlighten me, what innovative great features
have other platforms introduced since -let's say- iOS 4, that Apple has been
forced to 'catch up' with in iOS 5 and 6?

The only thing I can think of is Apple Maps, which desperately needs to catch
up with Google Maps. But considering you can still use Google Maps on iOS I
don't really think we can write off iOS because Apple Maps is weak.

~~~
altcognito
Actually, the entire ios interface is dated in comparison to both Microsoft's
platform and Android. Slapping a bunch of icons that can be paged back and
forth isn't cutting it anymore as an interface.

~~~
chmars
Define 'Android' and 'Microsoft's platform'?

Microsoft's platform is most likely Windows 8 but what's about 'Android'?
There are many different GUIs for Android devices after all …

------
nicholassmith
Man, isn't it weird that a company might be out-innovating another company?
Man, isn't it weird that another OS might do things in a different way? Man,
isn't it weird that a cnn contributor might have said things that will split a
room and have various spheres of the tech world proclaiming "No YOUR phone is
a dick"?

Here's the rub, iOS has gone down a very straightened route. It's a managed,
curated, locked down experience. The static icons are because Apple wants the
OS out of the way as much as possible because you're not _there_ to stare at
that, you're there to fondle whatever app you want. Android has thrown much
niceness in for customising, and having windowing, non-static tiles,
information widgets and what not because they know that's what _some_
consumers want.

Lets all take a breath. It's all okay. Android is a great OS! So is iOS! They
do _different things_ which work better for _different people_. Look at it
this way, having two companies making excellent operating systems, and two
companies making excellent hardware can only help to get other companies to
similarly up their game.

For what it's worth I wouldn't say Samsung is necessarily out-innovating
Apple, but they are putting things together in a very, very nice way. I see as
many Samsung Android devices on my commute as I do iPhones and that's not a
bad thing, but I can't think of anything that Samsung has done recently that's
stood right out as a massive innovation, but I don't pay as much attention as
I should.

------
mmariani
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck.

s/duck/ad/g

~~~
blisterpeanuts
May I humbly suggest, for the sake of grammar:

s/a\sduck/an ad/g

------
sjtrny
Innovation isn't about saying yes to everything. It's about saying no to all
but the most important things.

~~~
neya
Like, not having the ability to use your phone's basic features without
iTunes?

~~~
trendnet
When was the last time you saw an iPhone?

~~~
neya
Oh, really? I'd love to see you transfer music to your phone without using
iTunes. Or I'd love to see you transfer a file via bluetooth to another phone
that's not an iPhone. Or..I'd love to see you install an app that wasn't
released on the market _without_ jail-breaking your phone.

~~~
mamcx
>you transfer music to your phone without using iTunes

Can be done

>transfer a file via bluetooth to another phone that's not an iPhone

Can't be done (AFAIK) but is possible to transfer using more normal and useful
internet protocols.

> install an app that wasn't released on the market without jail-breaking

Can be done. I do it all the time.

Can be argued that iOS not operate exactly as Android, and the opposite. Some
operations are more convoluted than others (in both). However, iOS work, in
average, better for the end-user than the alternatives (is very telling that
the evidence in how Android is best than iOS is, mainly, in niche cases,
complex operations, dev-stuff, and things that are not normal for the average
user).

------
speeder
I found funny how much people are bashing the stylus.

I don't get it.

I bought 4 weeks ago (and last week it got destroyed in a flood :( ) a
resistive-screen 7 inch tablet, and I loved it.

At first, I got annoyed, because light touches did not worked, until I
remembered that I could use plastic stylus with it, also my nails, other
random objects, and so on.

Then I started to use it primarily instead of my Xperia Play, even having way
worse hardware, because it was so much easy to use, with the stylus I can
visit non-mobile webpage and click small links without issues, also I can
draw, and so several other things, much easier.

But hey, I always hated touchscreens (I own a Xperia Play because at least to
play games it has buttons, and I needed a smartphone, because after 5 years
developing for them, not owning one was silly at least), so, don't mind me.

~~~
cbs
_I found funny how much people are bashing the stylus._

On the surface they're a downright goofy looking non-necessity, but as a dude
that spends all day developing a touch UI, with that much interaction I had to
get one and now I can't go without one personally or professionally.

~~~
calinet6
And you don't see any problems with the fact that you now require a short
stick to get anything done on your mobile device?

~~~
wr1472
I don't get it; Why do styluses (plural?) get such a bad rep.? It's not like
this is a new invention, they've been around for ages, and how is it
dissimilar to a mouse for a PC? or a pen used to take notes in a notebook?
It's not as though you can't use you finger for short tasks like making a
phone call.

I hate to say this as I will either get downvoted to hell or start a fanboi
war, but I really do think that if Apple had produced a stylus device for the
iphone/ipad, those that are complaining would be saying quite the opposite.

~~~
calinet6
But they didn't, did they? And why was that, exactly? I don't necessarily have
a problem with styli, I just think they're a niche tool without much universal
appeal, and for a good reason.

It is not dissimilar at all to a mouse, or a pen, or a screwdriver, or any of
those things. It's just that those are older tools compared to the touch
interfaces we currently have and use to great effect, without styli. And that
is _awesome._ That is a great thing, a beautiful simplification, and it works,
and that's amazing.

You're of course welcome to use them if you prefer, but what Apple did (hey,
you started it) was create a device which was simple enough and useful enough
without a short stick to make that short stick as antiquated as a mouse or a
pen.

They made the short stick obsolete, because it adds _unneeded additional
complexity._ I resent your assertion that people believe this is a better
method just because Apple made it that way; as though all logic and truth
comes from the Great Jobs in the sky and is as He said it, amen. Quite simply,
screw that. It's better because it's a simpler basic design, that's all.

The irony is that people are buying those little rubber iPhone/iPad styli like
hotcakes these days. I really wish I were the person who came up with that,
because the royalties must be rolling in. And damn they're good for Draw
Something; you should see my girlfriend's mom's drawings, they're incredible.
I admit that styli are excellent for those specialized purposes.

But for the basic use of a touch-sensitive device? As an integral part of the
UI experience? No thanks. Keep it simple, stupid.

~~~
wr1472
I still don't get it, the first half of your post backs up your original
stance, whilst the second half agrees with what I said that it's not a
necessity (for basic things you can use your finger).

Doesn't the irony you highlight in your post regarding people buying "those
little rubber iPhone/iPad styli like hotcakes these days", indicate that
people find it easier to use a stylus for certain things? A stylus is
certainly a part of the UX, but not an integral part.

Using your finger is not the best option for all scenarios, if that was the
case we would have been dipping our finger in the ink pot instead of a quill.

------
JuDue
Apple has been quiet.

Mini-fying devices doesn't quite cut it as innovation. Although Apple is doing
it exceptionally well.

But just because they aren't releasing anything monthly, and in 10 different
form factors, does not mean they aren't developing stuff to be released when
they think it is ready.

Most companies pump stuff out and let the consumer decide. Rather than
building one perfect phone, they release 20 and call it innovation.

Apple never works that way.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Quote from a recent Marco Arment blog:

 _"The four-product lineup is long gone. Today, Apple ships 24 distinct iPhone
hardware models in two screen sizes. The iPad is even more diverse: 48
distinct hardware models, two screen sizes, and two densities of the larger
size. They also sell 34 iPods, and a surprisingly diverse and conflicted
notebook line."_

~~~
allwein
24 different models is different from the 20 different products mentioned
above. I don't consider a White 16GB WiFi iPad 4 to be an entirely different
product from a Black 16GB Wifi iPad 4.

The 4-product lineup Marco is talking about was the old Apple Matrix of
Consumer/Pro and Desktop/Mobile comprising the iBook, PowerBook, iMac, and
PowerMac.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Considering how much trouble Apple's had shipping white versions of some of
it's products, maybe you should?

------
mikecane
Anyone who wants better multi-windowing than a Galaxy Note 10.1 can jailbreak
their iPad and use Quasar.

Some will object that's a user hack. Well, it's also a user hack that lets the
Note 10.1 use more than the 20 apps designed for it to also multi-window.

------
DanBC
Threads like these make me long for word filters.

"XXX is an evil company!"

"Not as bad as XXX, who are much worse!!"

"No way, XXX are worse!!! You're just an XXX fanboy!!!!"

------
Uchikoma
I loved my Apple Newton with it's stylus.

------
wheeee
There's a typo in the headline. They misspelled "copying."

------
taligent
Just remember who the author is here:

[http://www.businessinsider.com/commenter?id=4cc19fa8cadcbb92...](http://www.businessinsider.com/commenter?id=4cc19fa8cadcbb92103c0000)

~~~
corresation
What does your link prove? They seem to be a technology columnist.

It is bizarre how people are either desperately telling people that they
needn't look at this article -- for it shall pervert their minds -- or are
attacking the author. I haven't even read the article but it must be good if
it yields this sort of knee-jerk response.

~~~
neya
By using his own logic, you can dig into his own comments and find out easily
that Taligent is a well-known anything pro-Apple troll here, so you're safe to
ignore him.

