
Evolution Can Occur in Less Than Ten Years - toni
http://newsroom.ucr.edu/news_item.html?action=page&id=2119
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philwelch
That's nothing new, many infectious diseases evolve every year, which is why
we need a new flu shot, the common cold can't be cured, and staph becomes MRSA
sending pharmaceuticals on an arms race just to keep hospitals sterile.

The real lower bound is the number of generations, and that number (<30) is
only given in the subtitle after you click through.

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tybris
My father was a North-Sea fisherman and reported on dramatic increases of Roe
when fish populations were declining. Since the type of flat fish they were
catching had usually lived for many years, our conclusion was that it would
have to be a bio-chemical progress already built-in to the genes.

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bdr
"How fast can evolution occur?" doesn't seem like a meaningful question. If
evolution is defined as a significant change in a population's gene
distribution, it can occur in an arbitrarily short period of time.

~~~
arakyd
Apparently they define it as noticeable changes in phenotype. I would have
guessed speciation.

~~~
lacker
It's hard to define speciation though. If two groups refuse to mate with each
other, but they could in a lab, are they speciated? What if artificial
semination works but naturally doesn't? Etc.

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Dilpil
Am I the only one wondering if this graduate student has been a graduate
student for all 10 years of the study? That is pretty brutal.

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kirse
News at 10: Species adapt within their genetic limitations.

I'm still waiting on that experiment that empirically demonstrates guppies
sprouting legs and kicking off an entirely new species of legged creatures.

~~~
TheSOB88
How can species even _have_ genetic limitations? We all have the same code
format - DNA - and we all make proteins based on it. Given that any mutation
might occur, one genome might evolve to a horrifyingly huge number of children
genomes over many, many generations. Deletions and copying allow for
potentially any change to be made to the organism, and it will be added to the
species' pool if the creature survives. A mutation has to be either useful,
neutral, or just present in an otherwise fit organism in order to persist.

And nobody claims that lobe-finned fishes (drastically different fish from
guppies) _sprouted_ legs - their fins gradually evolved to allow terrestrial
locomotion. If you look at the fin of a coelecanth ([http://www.elasmo-
research.org/education/classification/clas...](http://www.elasmo-
research.org/education/classification/class_images/coelacanth.gif) \- similar
to the ancestors of the first walking animal), you'll submit that it has fins
much more similar to webbed feet - which is what the first amphibians had.
Evolution is much more gradual than you seem to think we're claiming.

Also, I think it's pathetic that this comment was hidden from the public.
Doing that cuts off communication even more than it already has been.

~~~
kirse
_Given that any mutation might occur, one genome might evolve to a
horrifyingly huge number of children genomes over many, many generations.
Deletions and copying allow for potentially any change to be made to the
organism, and it will be added to the species' pool if the creature survives._

Yet again, more conjecture where people are telling me stuff happens without
actually ever demonstrating it. This is more pseudo-scientific BSing that
produces garbage that sounds reasonable yet can never be tested or validated.

Show me the money. Show me the actual process happening where one genome
evolves into a horrifyingly huge number of child genomes. Show me the live
mutations where a school of guppies eventually produces guppies with legs. Is
it really that hard to ask of science to show me the process that supposedly
produces all these results??? Results don't logically indicate a process until
a process is shown to produce those results.

Isn't that how we validate scientific theories? We claim a Higgs boson exists,
and then we build the LHC to empirically validate that assumption, right?

 _Evolution is much more gradual than you seem to think we're claiming._

I knew people were going to be picky over the word "sprouted", regardless I am
well aware that the conjectural claims of Macro-Evolution include an extremely
long period of time.

 _Also, I think it's pathetic that this comment was hidden from the public._

That's what happens around here. A bit of legitimate skepticism, people get
their beliefs challenged and they drive-by down vote without responding.

~~~
Retric
You clearly have no idea what timescales we are talking about. Think of it
like compound interest. Say we start with a 1 dollar and the first year you
get a penny back aka 1% compounded annually. Now how much money do you have in
1 million years? ~2 with 4,321 zeros.

Mankind has used evolution to turn wolves into decorative toy's in a few
thousand years by selecting who lived and who died. Plenty of "Dog" DNA is
new, but we have only recently started to understand the basic building
blocks. The theory of evolution existed long before we could look and DNA, and
yet DNA completely validated the theory at every level. It just works.

Yet you want more? WHY? What other idea works on every level? Saying "The
invisible panda made the world last week" could be true but it gives us no new
incite. Yet they theory of evolution is useful when talking about building
software, biochemistry, fishing, farming, and buying stock in ways that seem
completely unrelated.

PS: The math on evolution is complex and I suspect you are far to stupid to
understand it. Yet, the fact you don't understand in no way relates to
reality.

~~~
TheSOB88
I wish I could downmod this. Though I agree with you on the topic at hand,
your attitude is horrific. Abysmal.

It's sad to see such insulting discourse come from those who claim to seek to
educate others.

~~~
billswift
Educating others is only possible if the others want to be educated. Anyone
denying "macro-"evolution in this manner is beyond help. Shutting up the
ignorant a __holes is the best anyone can do.

~~~
TheSOB88
So much hate. No wonder you don't think you can convince anyone - you hate
them too much.

