
When ‘Gentrification’ Isn’t About Housing - lord_of_freaks
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/magazine/when-gentrification-isnt-about-housing.html
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bko
This whole article seems baffling to me. It has a tone of urgency, but I don't
really think a problem exists.

> Once a specialty of uptown bodegas, the sandwich had caught the attention of
> novelty-seeking foodies: Whole Foods was selling them for twice what they
> cost in the Bronx, where they went for $4 and still do.

Why would an item cost the same at a Whole Foods versus the Bronx?

> The poor are still gentrification’s victims, but in this new meaning, the
> harm is not rent increases and displacement — it’s something psychic, a
> theft of pride.

I don't believe the people they claim to be victims of "cultural
gentrification" would consider themselves victims in this sense. Do people in
lower socio-economic class really concern themselves if something they had
enjoyed is being enjoyed by a larger audience?

~~~
matthewmacleod
Yep, completely agree.

“Cultural gentrification” is the usual hand-wringing nonsense; it’s virtually
certain that the only people complaining about this are precisely those that
are unaffected by these changes.

The economic impact is a bigger problem. The idea that property sits empty,
while prices and rents continue to increase, definitely indicates that
something is wrong.

It’s not unreasonable to think that the free market has failed in this case,
and that perhaps preventing speculation through regulation might be an
effective approach.

~~~
supreme_sublime
> The idea that property sits empty, while prices and rents continue to
> increase, definitely indicates that something is wrong.

Does it? People still have to pay taxes on that property, there will still be
a mortgage that has to be paid, that means there will be fewer people living
there, which in some ways makes it better for everyone else who lives there.
Of course, it is in some ways an "artificial" restriction of supply.

However I question how many of these places actually sit "empty". I can't
imagine owning property, not living there, and not renting it out. Of course
rentals offer their own hurdles, but there are plenty of property management
companies out there that would do it for a fee. Seems like a totally missed
opportunity cost to me that would be economically foolish. It wouldn't be the
first time a wealthy person has done something economically foolish, but it
could be the last for that person.

>It’s not unreasonable to think that the free market has failed in this case,
and that perhaps preventing speculation through regulation might be an
effective approach.

Ultimately with speculation, people are taking a risk by buying the property,
while it may be a hip and cool place today, will it be that way in 10 years?
Will there be more housing built that will undercut any kind of appreciation
you might be accumulating. Real estate has historically been a pretty good
investment, however it isn't like it has never seen a downturn.

~~~
dang
It looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's an
abuse of this site, because it can't coexist with the intended purpose:
intellectual curiosity. We ban accounts that do this, so would you please
(re-)read
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
and use the site as intended from now on?

~~~
supreme_sublime
Is there some kind of objective criteria for this? I've made a legitimate
effort to comment in a variety of threads. I suppose you don't think that is
enough.

~~~
dang
Yes, the criterion is the one the site guidelines state: using Hacker News
"primarily for political or ideological battle". For more on what that means
and why it's worded that way, see
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16185062](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16185062).

In practice there's a huge gap between users who come to HN to gratify
intellectual curiosity, who in the course of being interested in a bunch of
things occasionally comment on a political topic, versus accounts that only
are interested in divisive flammable issues and use HN to prosecute their
views on them.

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throwaway43532
How exceptionally Baudrillardian, or maybe the word is meta.

A class, in their search for authenticity, have "gentrified" the authentic
experiences -- and hardships -- of an originating lower class into trendy
symbols.

The social metamorphosis is complete when the symbol replaces the experience
entirely, to the annoyance of the originating class; in part because the
experience was a symbol of their own identity.

The effect is then highlighted in language ostensibly for the gentrifying
class, on a virtual property catering to the same, and posted for discussion
on another such virtual property.

Finally, like the author who pretentiously signals a more authentic worldview
through the symbolic understanding and condemnation of the effect, so this
poster signals the same through bemused expression of its symbolic and
recursive nature.

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Animats
That's so New York. The upscale food fad thing is amusing, but not a serious
problem.

What's more of a problem is the downscale food fad of putting cheese in
everything. That didn't happen by accident. It's a plot by Dairy Management,
Incorporated.[1] US cheese consumption per capita has doubled since 1980. This
is a major contributor to the obesity epidemic.

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-07-19/the-
mad-c...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-07-19/the-mad-cheese-
scientists-fighting-to-save-the-dairy-industry)

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drpgq
Poutine is an example gentrified food. I guess sometimes you can’t stop the
spread of a good idea.

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UncleEntity
Awesome, now I have the words to describe my victimhood.

My particular plight is the people who think it's trendy to visit my formally
really bad neighborhood to eat and take up all parking. Damn food tourists.

It's a tragedy...

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LarryDarrell
It the spoiled kid "look at me"-ness that has made gentrification more
annoying in the last decade.

I have William Shatner singing " Common People" in my head now.

------
platz
Someone please gentrify giardiniera

Spicy advocates demand it

