
The best 4K monitor doesn’t exist yet - smacktoward
http://m.thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-4k-monitor-doesnt-exist/
======
mortenjorck

      ...though you’d be foolish to buy a 24-inch 4K display, we can 
      only hope that Intel and Samsung’s ambitions can push down 
      prices on larger displays.
    

Unless you're a Mac user, in which case you'd be foolish to buy anything else.

Reposting from my comment last year:

At 28", a 3840 x 2160 panel has a PPI of 157, which sits right between Retina
and non-Retina densities. This means that on a Mac, you’ll have to use it one
of two ways: Either at 1x, where the higher PPI means everything will be much
smaller than it is on a normal monitor, or at 2x, where the lower PPI means
everything will be much bigger than normal.

...

The best 4K monitor for Macs will be a 24”, which will have a PPI of 184, just
about right for something sitting a bit further back from the viewer than a
220 PPI Retina Macbook Pro display.

~~~
wbond
I run a Dell 31.5" 4k and find it a perfect fit with the rMBP running at the
(effective) 1920x1200 resolution. The Dell runs around 140ppi and the
effective ppi of the rMBP is around 140 also. I find it to be an excellent
combination. The quality of the Dell is outstanding.

A co-worker got two of the Dell 28" 4Ks and they were too small for 1:1 and
just a waste for 1920x1080. Anything in between was jagged. The 30Hz was
pretty terrible also.

Maybe two 24" displays would be ok, but I'd rather have the extra pixel real-
estate in a single display instead of smoother font and graphic rendering.

~~~
borplk
Can you please mention the full model number of the 31.5" dell that you are
talking about? Or a link?

------
eterm
What bothers me about 4k is the switching of terms.

4k makes it sound like it has 4 times the vertical resolution of 1080p, but
for pure marketing reasons, suddenly instead of the 4k referring to vertical
resolution as 1080 did, it refers to horizontal resolution, so is really only
twice the horizontal resolution of the 1920 that 1080p had. Overall that's 4
times the pixels because of squaring, but still!

~~~
dublinben
We really ought to insist on using more correct terms like UHD (Ultra High
Definition = 3840×2160 pixels) and only referring to "true" 4K cinema (4096 ×
2160 pixels) content/equipment as 4K.

~~~
eterm
Like "HD" (1080) vs "HD Ready" (720) I think we've already lost that battle,
and yet again it's "buyer beware" where people will get sold inferior goods as
if they're the good stuff by having the same or similar terms for different
quality. (Although in this case it's not as large a difference as HD vs HD
ready was)

~~~
QuotedForTruth
Ive never seen "HD Ready" refer to 720. As I remember it, HD Ready meant that
the TV was HD (720 or 1080), but it didnt include an ATSC or QAM tuner. It was
more like a monitor than a true TV.

The distinction I've seen with 1080p is calling it True or Full HD.

~~~
huskyr
Maybe this is specific per country, but in the Netherlands 'HD Ready' always
referred to 720 instead of 1080.

~~~
jwr
Actually, it referred to 768, as that was the number of lines that the cheap
panels had. Which meant that even to display 720p content you had to scale it.

------
programminggeek
4K is going to really not matter much for a while simply because the average
computer doesn't have good enough graphics to make good use of it.

The resolution jump is huge and so you need a lot more GPU memory and
processing power to do the same things at a higher resolution. Games are now
really taking good advantage of 1080p, so we are another 5-10 years away from
4k being a real thing in terms of mainstream gaming.

Also, the average computer is not going to fare well in a 4k world. Sure, you
might have videos on Netflix or some Blu-ray successor look nice in 4k, but
good luck getting that to be a decent experience on the sub $500 laptop your
parents just bought 2 years from now with a 15.6" 4k display with terrible
viewing angles, a Celeron processor, integrated gfx, and a 5400 RPM 2TB Hard
Drive...

High resolution is great, but as an industry we don't seem to be willing to
upgrade the related components - memory, GPU, SSD unless it's on a mobile
phone.

~~~
enos_feedler
I think this makes it a perfect opportunity for Apple to swoop in with Retina-
based iMacs. It plays right into their style of curating all the hardware
components and support developers via their SDKs to create a beautiful 4k
experience for end-users.

~~~
alexqgb
A 27" 4k touch-screen iMac would be perfect.

------
javipas
The ASUS PB287Q, AOC U2868PQU and Samsung U28D590D all support UHD resolutions
at 60Hz and DisplayPort 1.2 SST. That means that they support working with
just "one tile", they don't give the problems the previous dual-tile
solutions.

I don't really see the problem with these new monitors that are good enough
for most people. Good price, the TN panels are quite decent (confirmed by
reviews both at The Tech Report
([http://techreport.com/review/26510/4k-for-649-asus-
pb287q-mo...](http://techreport.com/review/26510/4k-for-649-asus-
pb287q-monitor-reviewed)) and KitGuru
([http://www.kitguru.net/peripherals/monitors/zardon/aoc-u2868...](http://www.kitguru.net/peripherals/monitors/zardon/aoc-u2868pqu-4k-uhd-28-inch-
monitor-review/)).

Yes, you do need the best GPUs in order to take advantage of games in 4K. And
yes, OS support is still incomplete. Anyway those trade offs are not that
important if you are not a gamer and you can take advantage of that desktop
area.

There's always good reasons for waiting. They could lead to never take
advantage of improvements: you know, new improvements could be on the horizon
when the ones you waited for finally arrive. And the story repeats itself...

~~~
devindotcom
I don't mind playing games in a lower resolution and letting it scale up to
the monitor's res - I consider the stretching to 4K a form of "natural" (if
sloppy) anti-aliasing.

~~~
potatolicious
Scaling is a problem on a lot of 4K monitors right now. IIRC the Dells will
display everything at their native resolution - so a 1080p signal will sit as
a box in the center of your screen surrounded by black.

There's a reason why the current batch of 4K monitors are considered immature.
The lack of "real" (single-tile) input, the inability to handle 60Hz inputs,
the inability to scale, etc etc. Looks like the _latest_ round of model
updates solve some of these, but IMO it's not quite time yet.

~~~
ariwilson
I have the Asus PB287Q and it scales perfectly to 1080p (and does the 60Hz
input, single-tile input), etc, etc. The only downside is the TN panel but
it's much better than any TN panel I've ever used.

~~~
sitkack
Please tell us more.

------
zyb09
On the one hand I can't wait for 4k and high PPI mode adaption. Retina
Macbooks already show just how pretty it is.

But the whole thing doesn't seem ready yet outside the Mac ecosystem. I see
lots of issues with 4k:

\- Going from 120 hz back to 60 hz, or even less. Seeing how they are
struggling to get a 60hz monitor to the market, it's probably going to be a
long time until we see 120 hz monitors.

\- Software adaption for high PPI modes is going to take time.

\- Games at 4k at 120 fps are going to be a problem for the GPU.

\- Movies are going to be the biggest bandwidth hog ever, or ridden with
compression artifacts.

So I'm not terribly exited yet. I probably still going to end up being an
early adapter and eat through all these issues, but I think I'll wait at least
one more year.

~~~
tacticus
The only reason makers are having an issue with hitting 60Hz is that people
are still stupid and keep using hdmi and the monitor makers keep catering for
them.

------
ScotterC
I absolutely love wirecutter. If they're not already making ends meet then I'd
happily donate for this kind of honesty and quality reviews.

~~~
listic
For those not familiar with The Wirecutter, is their concept "the best value-
conscious buy"?

I was looking for a review for a MicroSD card to use with a Surface Pro
convertible tablet I'm going to buy, and they didn't review 128GB or 64GB
models, just 32GB and 16GB ones "because they're very expensive and most
people don't need that much space on a microSD card".
[http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-microsd-
card/](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-microsd-card/)

~~~
ben336
The idea is "best X for most people". They will occasionally recommend some
higher-market stuff (IE $1600 for their recommended standing desk) but only
when they feel the low-end stuff is junk. I've found them to be fairly
reliable. When I've bought or already owned stuff they've recommended it
generally has ranged from "decent value" to "great choice" Since they review a
range of products for each thing and give tradeoffs its generally a great one-
stop place to make decisions on things you don't want to spend a long time
researching

------
notwhyships
I didn't have trouble rationalizing my pre-order of this LG Ultra QHD
(3440x1440) for $999. It's not 4K, but it's very competitive.
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JR6GCZA/ref=oh_details_o...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JR6GCZA/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

~~~
tlrobinson
FYI, as of this morning it's available at a couple Frys Electronics locations
(including Sunnyvale)
[http://www.frys.com/product/8069024](http://www.frys.com/product/8069024)

------
rdl
I gave in and bought one of the Seiki 4K 39" displays for $330 over the
weekend -- it's far from ideal, but it's $330. I'm sure I can resell it for
>$200 when I get something better in a few months or a year, but it's an
entirely serviceable monitor.

(The $330 deal was a $399 TigerDirect with a $70 MIR, free shipping, no CA
tax. Ended Monday, but I'm sure it will return.)

~~~
xur17
I have one of those too, and for the price I've been very happy with it. My
only real objection is the amount lag, but it's only really noticeable when
web browsing, and even then it's just a little annoying at first.

In case you haven't already, make sure to turn the sharpness and noise
cancellation down. It'll make it look a lot better. Also, if you look online,
there are other firmware versions you can flash to speed it up.

~~~
bnolsen
i have one too. The problem I have with it is that its just too much screen
real estate, horz and vertical together. I would have preferred one of those
ultra wide monitors instead.

------
geekam
I'd like to know if anyone is using a 4K monitor and their experience with it.
I have an Apple thunderbolt display and I am ok with it.

I do not have a 4K. I use it with macbook pro 15" (retina display) and even
though I do not get the same resolution, it does not look flaky at all and is
decent enough for reading. Moreover, it connects with the pro using
thunderbolt and thus does not require multiple connections for speakers,
camera, mic and display.

~~~
pagliara
I have the Sharp 4K monitor that Apple sells in its stores and it's
incredible. I run it at retina resolution at 60hz (now possible on Mac OS
10.9.3+) with a Mac Pro and it looks amazing.

Very pricey, but in my experience, worth every dollar.

~~~
geekam
Is that an Apple monitor or someone else's? I am sorry, I've never seen a
monitor apart from Thunderbolt display. Is that the one?

~~~
tormeh
Sharp is a pretty big Japanese company. They rarely make own-brand consumer
stuff for markets outside Japan though, which is why you haven't heard of
them.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Corporation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Corporation)

------
pbreit
Has anyone tried the 39" Seiki on a Mac? At $389 seems like an easier
purchase. Plus it doubles as a TV.

[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889522...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889522025)

~~~
tbrake
Two people at work have them. I found it just slightly too small when watching
them use a 4x 1920x1080 setup with DiplsayFusion.

I decided to try a 50" TCL 4k display. I find I don't mind the 30Hz refresh
rate as I don't game on it. However I do find it just a tad too big.

I believe the sweet spot is somewhere around 44" or 45" for 4k-tv-as-a-monitor
but absolutely no one is making one in that range. And if I could just get
that curved, I think it would be perfect.

------
me_again
By all means wait, but as a programmer, I've found the Samsung 28" UHD monitor
terrific. I can get a huge amount of crisp text on the screen at once, and the
color accuracy is Good Enough For Me. I have not seen any issues driving the
display over DisplayPort 1.2 @ 60Hz - BiOS etc all works fine.

------
pan69
Has anyone tried any of the 4k (or Ultra High Definition) displays with
Ubuntu? I'd be interested to know what the results are..

------
andy_ppp
I hate staring at a blurry/pixelated monitor more than I dislike the viewing
angle of this TN panel. The white balance and viewing angle are the problem
here - the colours are pretty good, almost as rich as this Retina Macbook. I
have the Samsung UD590.

For coding it's perfect really and I've had no problems using display port at
60hz.

------
tonyedgecombe
I agree with their comments on the Dell U2713HM, I've had one for about a year
now and it's very good.

~~~
the8472
Indeed, it has just the right pixel density. A 24" 4k display needs DPI
scaling to be usable, thus reducing the "screen estate" advantage and >30" 4k
displays aren't yet available with all the necessary features.

------
alexeisadeski3
144hz or bust. No way I'm going back to 60hz.

Quad link DVI is the future.

~~~
borplk
Is there a noticeable difference between 60hz and 144hz for things like
reading text and programming? How much?

~~~
alexeisadeski3
No; Yes; Not much.

------
mantraxB
"30 fps flicker" \- that's not a CRT, it doesn't _flicker_ , because unlike
CRTs, a flat display doesn't have a ray refreshing the display top to bottom.

And 30 fps on a CRT wouldn't be enough to produce stable image in the retina
at all, which is why CRT TVs used to refresh at a minimum of 50Hz, and that
still flickers (it stops "flickering" at around 75Hz).

With flat displays frame rate is about display responsiveness and animation
detail.

So I wonder where are the claims about eye-strain coming from. Maybe because
people just want better display responsiveness and they like to borrow from
the problems low refresh CRTs used to cause, because it sounds scientific and
legit as a problem.

~~~
astrodust
Persistence of vision depends on the ambient brightness. Movies are 24FPS but
they're shown in a dark room so the jitter isn't as bad.

A 30FPS screen in similar conditions wouldn't be as bad, but most people use
computer screens in well it rooms.

The flickering on an LCD is different, but presents itself as a serious
sputtering when you're moving things around.

~~~
mark-r
Film is projected with a shutter operating at twice the frame rate or better,
to minimize flicker. It would be unwatchable otherwise. See
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Shutter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Shutter)

