
Toni Morrison Has Died - mises
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nobel-laureate-toni-morrison-has-died-11565099219?mod=rsswn
======
cdubzzz
I majored in English lit at university and one of my early requirements was a
single author course. Having little general knowledge of famous authors, I
chose the Toni Morrison class at random. I remember on the first day being
surprised to find our that Toni Morrison was a woman and that her writing had
such a strong focus on race and slavery. I was rather intimidated.

Turned out to be one of the best classes I had during those years. It was a
very small group (I feel like only ten people or something) and there was a
lot of really excellent discussion about the books. Jazz stood out to me as
one of her best works, the focus shift in narrators throughout the novel was,
I think, my first real exposure to the "unreliable narrator" concept and it
made the story so powerful.

~~~
tyre
I had a similar experience growing up in the mostly white suburbs of
Baltimore. We read Beloved junior year and it was absolutely devastating. It
opened my eyes to the deep, unhealed wounds of slavery and that sort of
tumultuous, all-consuming pain. It was a difficult book to read at that age—I
can't imagine any age when it would be easy to read—and I appreciate that we
were asked to sit with it.

Another book that had a similar effect on me was Yukio Mishima's "Confessions
of a Mask" about a boy growing up gay in 1930–50s Japan. I don't know that he
ever actually says he's gay and you get this feeling that he doesn't even have
the language to describe himself, let alone any kind of framework or support
network. It was described to me by the friend who recommended it as
"devastatingly sad" and I agree. He was absolutely, completely, and utterly
fucked from the moment he was born and there's nothing he could do about it.
The book threw me off for weeks. I highly recommend it.

~~~
gaogao
Yukio Mishima's biography is a depressingly vivid example of the dangers of
repressing your identity, with his repressed gay identity seemingly spilling
out into far-right nationalism and then terrorism.

------
magpi3
I love reading, but only a handful of books have really changed the way I look
at the world. The Bluest Eye was one of them.

Minor spoiler: in the bluest eye a young black girl obsesses over a white
female doll with blue eyes. Before I read it, I never considered the impact
that the idealization of white beauty could have on minorities. After reading
that book, I realized how important it was for children to be able to look up
to role models (fictional or otherwise) that look like them.

In my own life, I have had my own share of fantasy role models (I am a huge
Tolkien fan, and when I was younger I loved all things fantasy) that shaped my
own identity, and after reading The Bluest Eye I had to consider the idea: how
would those books have affected me if all characters looked nothing like me? I
do not think the effect would have been positive.

~~~
cgh
To be fair, Tolkien explicitly set out to create a Northern European pre-
history or mythology. I am not sure if he even considered non-European readers
as his audience.

A good parallel might be the love many Westerners have for anime.

~~~
goto11
To be fair - I don't think the comment was criticizing Tolkien. It was just
making an observation.

------
svat
(Disclaimer: I have not read any “actual” work by Toni Morrison, so my
knowledge is limited to the following, which I wanted to share.)

There's a great profile of the editor Robert Gottlieb who worked with her,
including a few wonderful quotes from Toni Morrison revealing how she worked
(search the page for "Morrison"; there are about 10 quotes), from 1994:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20161227170954/http://www.thepar...](https://web.archive.org/web/20161227170954/http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/1760/robert-
gottlieb-the-art-of-editing-no-1-robert-gottlieb) — the whole thing is a great
read even if you don't care about Toni Morrison (every lover of reading is
likely to enjoy it), but if you do, it may just be a few snippets that you
might have otherwise missed as it's not “about” Toni Morrison.

> [Morrison] Writing my first two books, _The Bluest Eye_ and _Sula_ , I had
> the anxiety of a new writer who needs to make sure every sentence is exactly
> the right one. Sometimes that produces a kind of precious, jeweled quality—a
> tightness, which I particularly wanted in _Sula_. Then after I finished
> _Sula_ and was working on the third book, _Song of Solomon_ , Bob said to
> me, You can loosen, open up. Your writing doesn’t have to be so contained;
> it can be _wider_. I’m not sure these were his exact words, but I know that
> the consequence of the remarks was that I _did_ relax and begin to open up
> to possibilities. It was because I was able to open up to those
> possibilities that I began to think things like, What would happen if indeed
> I followed this strange notion or image or picture I had in my mind of this
> woman who had no navel . . . whereas normally I would have dismissed such an
> idea as recklessness. It was as if he had said, Be reckless in your
> imagination.

> [Gottlieb] I remember the discussion with Toni as she was beginning _Song of
> Solomon_ , because although we always did some marginal cosmetic work on her
> manuscripts, obviously a writer of her powers and discrimination doesn’t
> need a lot of help with her prose. I think I served Toni best by encouraging
> her—helping to free her to be herself. The only other real help I gave to
> her was noneditorial: I encouraged her to stop editing and to write full-
> time, something I knew she wanted to do. As I remember it, I reassured her
> about her finances—but what I was really saying was, You’re not an editor
> who does some writing, you’re a _writer_ —acknowledge it; there’s nothing to
> be scared of. We always understood each other—two editors, two lovers of
> reading, and exactly the same age.

[…]

> [Morrison] Writing for me is just a very sustained process of reading. The
> only difference is that writing a book might take three or four years, and
> _I’m_ doing it. I never wrote a line until after I became an editor, and
> only then because I wanted to read something that I couldn’t find. That was
> the first book I wrote.

------
dnjdrbdhdbs
This is my favorite line of hers:

“How soon country people forget. When they fall in love with a city it is
forever, and it is like forever. As though there never was a time when they
didn’t love it. The minute they arrive at the train station or get off the
ferry and glimpse the wide streets and the wasteful lamps lighting them, they
know they are born for it. There, in a city, they are not so much new as
themselves: their stronger, riskier selves.”

------
mistersquid
As a student of scholar and literature and a former professor of the same,
this is a sad day for me. I've taught many of Morrison's novels and learned
more with every reading.

Morrison is a giant among writers, and the world is poorer for her passing.

The NYTimes obituary titled "Toni Morrison, Towering Novelist of the Black
Experience, Dies at 88" is unavoidably narrow. Toni Morrison's novels contain
universes. [0]

[0] [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/books/toni-morrison-
dead....](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/books/toni-morrison-dead.html)

------
phasetransition
Like several others in this thread, I read Beloved at an 11th grade student in
literature class.

It was the most humbling thing I remember reading. Moving, despite no personal
context for the characters' experiences. Written beautifully without feeling
over written.

It made me realize how far I was, and probably would ever be, from proper
writing talent.

------
Insuranceman
My first intro to Morrison was thru 'The Bluest Eye'. Afterwards I read many
of her books incl 'Beloved'. I loved all of them.

One thing I could however never understand was how a person with such deep
insights into the African American experience could call Bill Clinton, 'the
first Black President'. I thought at first maybe there was something I didn't
understand. But as years passed, I've been increasingly feeling that perhaps
that wasn't the case.

~~~
yardie
I still don’t understand why she called Clinton the first black president. I
think people confused his charm for respect and understanding. I believer Bill
Clinton was the first presidential candidate to get Black voters. Until then
most candidates would rely on black celebrity and community leaders to meet
black voters. Not only would he meet them in churches and community centers,
he was really comfortable doing it. Most white politicians would do an awkward
stump speech in a church or center with an eye on the exit. And that wasn’t
the case with Clinton. He was a natural shmoozer.

~~~
pryce
She later clarified what she meant, in her 2008 interview with Time magazine
by saying: "People misunderstood that phrase. I was deploring the way in which
President Clinton was being treated, vis-à-vis the sex scandal that was
surrounding him. I said he was being treated like a black on the street,
already guilty, already a perp. I have no idea what his real instincts are, in
terms of race."

In her original comment it is more limited even than that - it refers to
hearing _other people_ "murmuring" of Clinton as "the first Black president"
in the context of his impeachment, rather than giving some sort of unqualified
endorsement of the idea herself; but people do love an inflammatory sound
byte.

------
Kye
I had to read The Bluest Eye in college. That is one book I'll never read
again, and that's _because_ it's so brutally honest about the characters'
experiences. It's _too_ real.

Great book. Highly recommended. I'm afraid to read any more of her books, but
I probably should.

It contrasts with The Awakening, also required reading. It's like the other
side of The Bluest Eye. What did Edna Pontellier's awakening cost the black
servants who enabled it?

~~~
magpi3
A lot of African-American fiction can have that effect. Corregidora by Gayl
Jones is a book that blew me away and made me really upset. It took me almost
twenty years to read it a second time.

------
autarch
We read her book Song of Solomon in my senior high school English class. It
was one of my favorites of the class, along with Catch-22. I don't think I
really got even close to 100% of what it was about, but her writing was just
so gripping and beautiful, I still enjoyed the ride.

Years later I read Beloved and I was able to appreciate it much more. I should
really read more of her work.

------
omot
I read Beloved when I was in high school. I was so entranced in the world she
created, that time passed without me noticing. Truly a visionary author.

Unrelated, but it's kind of scary how many comments have, if not an undertone,
just straight up racism.

------
habosa
I don't often feel a strong emotion when a famous person dies, but this one
got me. The beauty in her books is staggering, I read them with no
preconceptions (which is often hard to do with famous books) and was
completely blown away. As pure literature divorced from any reality they'd
still be all-time great works, and their connection to the real experience of
black people in America raises them to even greater heights.

From everything I have read she was a wonderful person aside from her writing.
Thoughtful and careful, influential without being loud.

I think the world will miss her, and we will always have her words.

------
o-__-o
I met Toni Morrison when I was 12. She was kinda rude to me, I wonder if it’s
because I didn’t see her as anything but an accomplished author. I’ve always
wondered about that moment if she intentionally was rude or was just anxious
from being in the spotlight at the time. I don’t know why I thought during all
these years that I would get to meet her again.. I was planning to be more
adept at conversation with her. Correlate coding to historic writings.. but
this post is a sobering wake up call.

Phone your mum, tell her you love her. My mom was inspired by Toni Morrison.

------
magic_beans
My heart is breaking. Toni Morrison was one of the greatest writers of our
time. I loved Beloved, but The Bluest Eye is my favorite.

------
bossnayamoss
Beloved is one of my all-time favorites ️.

------
goobynight
From Lorain, Ohio to NYC. Nice work and rest in peace.

------
bubblewrap
One of those silly toxic grievance ideas, that you should only enjoy fiction
when the protagonist looks like you, has the same gender and so on.

Do real world PoC even ever obsess over white female dolls with blue eyes? It
was just a work of fiction, after all. Do white girls obsess over black dolls?
We have a black doll, that my white wife grew up with. I don't think it
disturbed her in any way.

~~~
magpi3
If it doesn't matter, then why are fantasy characters (even today, even in
Harry Potter which is extremely recent) overwhelmingly white? If people
enjoyed protagonists regardless of their ethnicity or gender, then why isn't
fiction more diverse? Why are almost all DC and Marvel superheroes white
males? Etc.

> Do real world PoC even ever obsess over white female dolls with blue eyes?

Apparently, yes.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_and_Mamie_Clark#Doll_e...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_and_Mamie_Clark#Doll_experiments)

~~~
mises
> why are fantasy characters (even today, even in Harry Potter which is
> extremely recent) overwhelmingly white?

I can't speak to every single case, but Harry Potter is a British franchise by
origin. England is over 92% white. It does stand to reason that a fantasy
novel set in England would feature mostly white characters.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingd...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#Ethnicity)

------
eitland
> I had to consider the idea: how would those books have affected me if all
> characters looked nothing like me?

FWIW: Several of my role models - if you include people who are not alive,
people I've only read about - are not white males.

I guess in my case it was more important to relate to their background and
their skills (or lack of ;-) than who their parents were, and where they grew
up.

~~~
ergothus
> FWIW: Several of my role models - if you include people who are not alive,
> people I've only read about - are not white males.

But you didn't and don't lack for options.

I'm a straight white man from America. No matter what personal, family, and
economic difficulties I've faced:

\- I have literal decades of seeing other white men in a variety of roles. I
can pick and choose from the stereotypes I want to put in high regard,
emulate, or dismiss, not 3 or 4.

\- growing up, there was no blanket treatment of me or people others decided I
was like outside of choices I made. I could adopt "redneck" habits/dress, or
"frat boy", or "nerd", or "jock", but I had control over whether I was
identified as a "thug", or " aggressive", or "professional".

\- Because "my" culture was broadcast everywhere (TV/movies/books/magazines),
I was never regarded as "weird" or "threatening" because people weren't
accustomed to anything I'd do or say or how I'd dress.

As a kid, I was freaked out by the first black person I met, because his palms
were a lighter color than the rest of his skin. That's a stupid thing to be
freaked out by, but it was _different_ to me because I didn't see it anywhere.
It wasn't "normal" My skin color, in return, was very "normal" looking to him,
because fish-belly-pale is hardly a skin color that is hard to see in any
community - just turn on the TV. Growing up in a more diverse area I would
have seen more and wouldn't have had that reaction - but turn on the TV and it
was still monochromatic.

As a kid I regularly teased a girl in my grade (a friend!) for her hairstyle,
because it wasn't "normal". Of course, it was quite normal - if you have those
genes, or see anyone that does. Again, put me in a more diverse world and I'd
have seen it...but what did she see on TV? in movies? on magazine covers?

And there were "black" TV shows, and "black" magazines...but everything else
wasn't "white" \- it was "normal". Which meant "not black".

I had, and have, the liberty of choice because "normal" includes me, and I can
choose if I want to include it. But if "normal" was defined to exclude me,
what kinds of choices would I have? I might become a "well-spoken" and "clean"
black man!

~~~
davesmith1983
My grandmother cries when describing the poverty they lived in when she was a
child (1930s) in Newcastle (Northern England). Nobody had it easy in the past.

Well done for falling for the propaganda that racially divides people and is
frequently sold by activists to people like yourself who seem to have bought
it.

People of all colours and creeds will try to garner sympathy from the other
group by claiming how disadvantaged they are. The reality is that there are
plenty of people from all races that have made it to the top of society.

These people constantly bring up slavery that happened during the colonial
period but they _never_ mention what is currently happening in Qatar where
foreign workers building the world cup stadium are effectively slaves. This is
happening today not over a hundred years in the past, if they feel so strongly
about slavery why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about this?

That is why I know this is done because these actors (quite rightly I believe)
think it will give them political power because they will claim they have no
representation while being broadcast on the very media they claim to have no
representation in.

~~~
ergothus
> Nobody had it easy in the past.

Clearly everyone has had it equally difficult and there is no grouping of
peoples that get systemic mistreatment, evidence and statistics be damned.

Yes, people can have it hard. And people can have it hard out of proportion
with their peers. This doesn't alter provable facts about sweeping
populations.

> The reality is that there are plenty of people from all races that have made
> it to the top of society.

And just like your grandmother disproves any systemic problem by difficulty,
any success by any individual does the same, proving that they cannot be an
exception to the rule.

> while being broadcast on the very media they claim to have no representation
> in

I think if you dig a bit you'll find a lot of things you aren't seeing. And
surely just one case will prove the whole, right?

~~~
davesmith1983
> Clearly everyone has had it equally difficult and there is no grouping of
> peoples that get systemic mistreatment, evidence and statistics be damned.

Never claimed that.

> Yes, people can have it hard. And people can have it hard out of proportion
> with their peers. This doesn't alter provable facts about sweeping
> populations.

I didn't claim it disproved anything. I was pointing out that life wasn't fair
and there was poverty that you and I can't possibly fathom and it affected
everyone no matter what the colour of their skin.

> And just like your grandmother disproves any systemic problem by difficulty,
> any success by any individual does the same, proving that they cannot be an
> exception to the rule.

Never claimed that.

It is really astounding that someone can spend so much time logic chopping and
fail to understand what I was actually saying.

This lie of people having to be represented by someone of their own skin in a
nonsense that is sold by activists to students to make them feel bad because
of the colour of their skin. The person I was replying to had bought this
nonsense.

The fact is unfortunately that racists (both white and black ones) will use
this to further racially divide people about what happened in the past.

~~~
ergothus
> It is really astounding that someone can spend so much time logic chopping
> and fail to understand what I was actually saying.

Perhaps because I was interpreting it in the context of the comment you were
replying to (mine).

Poverty is devastating. True...and not related at all to what I said. I didn't
mention economics or finances AT ALL save to mention that my comments were
true regardless of my financial background. So if your comment wasn't in
relation to what I said...but it was. There's an implied connection that I
gave a rebuttal to, and in the face of that rebuttal, you deny the connection.
That implodes my rebuttal...but leaves your comment without contextual
purpose.

> I was pointing out that life wasn't fair and there was poverty that you and
> I can't possibly fathom and it affected everyone no matter what the colour
> of their skin.

Another true statement. And also unrelated to what you were replying to,
unless you were trying put in the implied connection.

> This lie of people having to be represented by someone of their own skin in
> a nonsense that is sold by activists to students to make them feel bad
> because of the colour of their skin

Citation needed - at this point you're denying misrepresentation of minorities
in popular media, which is such a well-documented problem and so obviously
observable that your unsupported assertions would be laughable if the issue
wasn't related to tragedy. Also - I don't feel bad for the color of my skin.
At all. (Except when I get a sunburn) I _do_ feel bad for supporting a system
that is systemically unfair, but the solution to that is not to deny the
problem, nor to assume a vast burden of guilt that you assume I (and others)
have taken on. The solution is to improve the system. To modify my support.

~~~
davesmith1983
> Citation needed - at this point you're denying misrepresentation of
> minorities in popular media, which is such a well-documented problem and so
> obviously observable that your unsupported assertions would be laughable if
> the issue wasn't related to tragedy.

Sorry I don't see it. All through my life (I am almost 40 years old) there has
been plenty of black people on the television and in films and most of the
time it has been everything from Gangstars to Action Heroes.

> I _do_ feel bad for supporting a system that is systemically unfair, but the
> solution to that is not to deny the problem, nor to assume a vast burden of
> guilt that you assume I (and others) have taken on. The solution is to
> improve the system. To modify my support.

It isn't systemically unfair. You keep on asserting it is.

We live in a society that only really cares about your ability to make money
i.e. produce. That is capitalism.

In the UK we had a black rapper head up the largest outdoor festival in
England.

~~~
rhcom2
It's not hard to find actual numbers on representation of minorities in the
media. Our anecdotes have more to do with our own blind spots than actual real
life and don't prove anything.

"In the UK we had a black rapper head up the largest outdoor festival in
England."

Again, anecdotes don't prove anything.

------
lwhalen
I could never get into her work, personally. I was forced to read 'Beloved' in
high school, and found it dense, poorly written, and just unpleasant to read.
I know she's won a ton of awards, so it's probably just me. Sorry to hear she
passed though.

~~~
commandlinefan
I had never heard of her, or any of her books - I went to primary school in
the 80’s, though. Is she somebody that’s only recently been included in the
curriculum in the past few decades?

~~~
jrochkind1
Well, _Beloved_ for instance was published in 1987, and Jazz, also mentioned
in this thread, in 1992. Her first novel, _The Bluest Eye_, in 1970.

But yeah, I would say she has continued to increase in popularity (popularly
and in school curriculums) since the 1980s, although some high schoolers were
probably reading her works in the 80s. I graduated from high school in 1983,
and read Beloved in a class.

~~~
jrochkind1
I meant to say graduated from high school in 1993, typo!

