

The Mental Universe (2005) [pdf] - MichaelAO
http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/The.mental.Universe.pdf

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honzzz
The article seems interesting but I am afraid I do not understand quantum
physics well enough to understand it fully - could someone more knowledgeable
please try to explain it like I am five? How would quantum mechanical
perception of the world for common people look like?

~~~
hliyan
I explain quantum physics (or at least the underlying principles) to myself
this way:

1\. Quantum fluctuations are the random number generator function of the
universe. Without which, the universe will be utterly uniform and lacking
detail. All detail (or information) is born through quantum fluctuations.

2\. The universe has a finite resolution -- you zoom in enough and you reach a
point where you 'see' the 'pixels' of the universe and see no further. This
applies to matter, energy, space and time.

I may be oversimplifying or even understanding it wrong, but to me, denying
either (1) or (2) eventually leads to a _reductio ad absurdum_ \-- 1) a
universe that is a uniform, featureless soup, or 2) infinite information
density.

* As a side-note, denying (1) also results in denying free will -- all future states of the universe becomes classically predictable, including the thoughts and behaviors of conscious beings in it.

EDIT: sorry, I know you asked about perception. I've never quite been able to
explain waveform collapse to myself. Intuitively, it feels like the universe
does lazy evaluation -- all variables are in flux until read?

~~~
diogofranco
"As a side-note, denying (1) also results in denying free will."

Denying (1) clearly denies free will since we are talking about a purely
deterministic universe. But notice that (1) holding true doesn't really open
up any space for free will anyway.

With (1) you now have randomness as well as causality in the universe, but how
does that mix produce free will? If the conscious beings thoughts and
behaviours are stuck in determinism/randomness, there is no free will.

I've seen that quantum argument for free will thrown around, but random events
in the brain giving rise to our thoughts and actions is still the antithesis
of free will. Whether you're doing something because of a chain of cause and
effect, or because of random fluctuations in the very small, you're not doing
it because you want to do it.

~~~
hliyan
True.

Since we are on the subject of perception, what if I were to postulate (as a
lot of people have done before) that what we call free will is just our
perception of randomness in the brain _ex post facto_? Some studies have shown
that decision neuron clusters fire a fraction of a second _before_ the subject
appears to make the conscious decision.

Anyway, apologies for potentially derailing the thread by throwing free will
into the discussion.

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amelius
If the universe is purely mental, then why does it follow a set of rules so
precisely? Why doesn't it just dream up the best possible thoughts it can
have?

Also, why are different parts of this mental process disconnected from each
other? For example, if you and i are both part of the same mental process,
then why do we intuitively believe that we are different, disconnected
entities?

~~~
mgregory22
1\. We don't know if the universe follows any rules precisely. We can never
know because the only way to know that a rule is being followed
unconditionally would be to exhaustively verify every event in the universe to
see if it follows that rule, which is impossible.

2\. There's not just one mental process. There are an infinite number (most
likely) of mental processes. But even though we're not both part of the same
mental process, we're both part of the same causal process. The reason we
perceive ourselves as discrete entities is: 1. mental processes (thoughts) can
be both true and false, 2. true thoughts are more rare than false thoughts, 3.
false thoughts are still capable of doing work, and therefore, our survival
has relied on the false thought that each of us is a separate individual, even
though the truth is that we're causally dependent on one another, our
environment, etc.

------
unusximmortalis
"THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental." — The Kybalion.

find and read
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kybalion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kybalion)

the idea that the univers is mental is old, very old. it's funny how these
scientists discover all of the sudden new ideas. and it's funny how we
attribute discoveries to someone... the biggest minds that lived didn't
attributed to themselves the ideas they had. modesty? honesty? :)

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justinpombrio
Except that quantum mechanics _does_ say there is "underlying stuff"; it's
called the wave function. And it's in no way mental.

I'd like to recommend the QM explanation on lesswrong. Unlike most other
explanations out there, it attempts to take away, rather than add, mystery.

[http://lesswrong.com/lw/pc/quantum_explanations/](http://lesswrong.com/lw/pc/quantum_explanations/)

~~~
dedward
Everything you observe, your entire perception of reality is mental.

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monochr
And who exactly makes the observations? Is a cat good enough? A chimp? If we
get someone really smart to look at an electron can we collapse it better?

The brain centered quantum mechanics I've seen become fashionable to lay
people in the last 20 years are a last gasp of homo-centrism that really
should have died a very long time ago.

~~~
attackvectors
No one said animals are not good enough to do it. It is not homo-centrism, it
is consciousness-centrism if you wish to name it.

------
attackvectors
In a shared hallucinated dream/reality our bodies and planet, if not real, may
serve as a metaphoric language for some purpose. Perhaps as a classroom or
habitat for gods.

