

Canada targeting San Francisco Bay's Intelligent Immigrants? - kirillzubovsky
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alchemicalnature/8748591003/in/photostream

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jbarham
Speaking as a Canadian who has worked on a H1B visa in California, the "Low
Taxes" claim on this billboard is laughably deceptive.

See e.g. <http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax> for an income
tax calculator for Canada. Note too that unlike in the US, married couples in
Canada cannot file joint income tax returns which is a big benefit for H1B
workers given that your spouse cannot work (unless they have their own work
visa). Sure, _corporate_ income taxes might be lower in Canada, but that's no
incentive to move to Canada as an _individual_.

The fact is that there are many more high tech jobs in the US than Canada,
salaries are much higher and taxes are lower which translates to a
substantially higher take-home income. The catch of course is that you have to
be willing to work as an indentured employee on the H1B.

FWIW I'm now living in Melbourne, Australia. Comparable tax rates to Canada
but with better weather and better health care.

~~~
rogerbinns
To do a fair calculation you need to measure what your take home pay is after
accounting for taxes, health provision, license fees (eg vehicles), equal
living circumstances (cost of housing), utilities, cell phone plan, reasonable
retirement provision, if applicable child care and education provisions etc.

If you intend to stay a while then purchasing power parity should also be
taken into account including sales taxes/VAT.

~~~
jbarham
> taxes

Higher in Canada, both income and sales

> health provision

N/a for me since health insurance was a given for every job I had in
California

> license fees (eg vehicles)

Cars are much cheaper to buy and operate in California than Canada

> cost of housing

FWIW the Canadian housing market is currently in a massive bubble, comparable
IMO to where the US was in 2007 (i.e., peaked and on the verge of bursting)

> utilities

Negligible on a software engineer's salary

> cell phone plan

More expensive in Canada

> reasonable retirement provision

Social Security or Canada Pension Plan: Good luck!

> child care and education provisions

Given that my wife couldn't work in the US it was n/a for me, but we could
comfortably afford for her to stay at home when our first son was born.

~~~
rogerbinns
The health provision is a big expense, especially as it comes in the taxes
column in Canada (and most civilized countries). In California your taxes
include health provision for others (disability, medicare/aid) but not you.
Even if health provision is given in California by your employer, that is many
hundreds of dollars a month that could otherwise go to your salary.

The Californian housing market has been in a bubble for decades! I just
compared the Bay Area with Vancouver, and the latter is considerably cheaper,
at least half price.

~~~
jbarham
> I just compared the Bay Area with Vancouver, and the latter is considerably
> cheaper, at least half price.

How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion considering that according to
The Economist, Vancouver is the most expensive city in North America:
[http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/06/vancouver-most-
expen...](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/06/vancouver-most-expensive-
city-to-live-economist_n_2631806.html)

For anyone interested in doing an objective comparison between the cost of
renting a 2-bedroom apartment in Vancouver vs. California, here are some
links:

Vancouver: [http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/f-real-estate-apartments-
condos-2...](http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/f-real-estate-apartments-
condos-2-bedroom-Vancouver-W0QQCatIdZ214QQLocationZ1700287)

San Jose (Silicon Valley): [http://www.rentals.com/California/San-
Jose/apartments-proper...](http://www.rentals.com/California/San-
Jose/apartments-property-type-2-beds-1z141yl+1z141y8/)

Irvine (Southern California):
[http://www.rentals.com/California/Irvine/apartments-
property...](http://www.rentals.com/California/Irvine/apartments-property-
type-2-beds-1z141yl+1z141y8/)

~~~
rogerbinns
> How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion ...

Did a Google search for Vancouver rentals, clicked on the first 3 results,
verified that it was Vancouver Canada and not Washington state, and then
clicked around the maps/listings.

The first two links do seem to indicate Vancouver being cheaper than San Jose
when eyeballing it, but you'd need a data export or graphs of dollars per
square foot averages to be fully comparable.

BTW I picked Vancouver because it is on the west coast as is the bay area.
Some indications are that Toronto would be a better choice, and perhaps
compared to Chicago or NYC instead.

> ... according to The Economist, Vancouver is the most expensive city in
> North America ...

Note that they are measuring the cost of living, not the price of
accommodation although the latter should account for a large amount of the
former. You also have to be careful what is being compared - for example they
list Colombo (which I'm personally familiar with) amongst the 20 cheapest, but
that certainly isn't the case for a lifestyle equivalent to the bay area, and
cars are eyewateringly expensive there due to import duties (around 5 times
the price in the US!)

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DanielRibeiro
This is pretty interesting[1]:

 _What happens if my business fails?_

 _Failure of your business will not affect your permanent resident status. We
recognize that not every business will succeed and this program is designed so
that the risk is shared between the public and private sector._

[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=657&...](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=657&t=6)

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fpp
They are also very active here in London - and are doing a pretty good job.

If Canada will finally stop sheeply following the US and Europe with
introducing more and more Internet surveillance legislation and blockers, but
is taking a stand to foster the industry by creating an infrastructural and
legal framework (e.g. as Iceland tried a few years ago but they are in the
middle of an Ocean) there will be caravans moving North to Vancouver /
Montreal / Quebec City / Toronto and West from Europe.

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klipt
Looks like they're already overloaded with applications:

"Note: To focus on processing the applications we already have, CIC has
temporarily stopped accepting applications under:

    
    
        the immigrant investor program
        the federal entrepreneur program
    

This temporary pause will continue until further notice."

<http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/index.asp>

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rogerbinns
I was under the impression that Internet access in Canada (both home and
mobile) was terrible - expensive, restricted, no competition, long contracts
etc.

To win me over, the billboard just needs to add "... and we use the metric
system".

~~~
mig39
Depends where you are. I get 100meg for $70/month from Shaw.

~~~
hga
But what about Shaw's usage caps?

I've gotten the strong impression from DSLReports.com that pretty much all
Internet access in Canada has nasty ones.

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mansigandhi
It's an amazing ad...connects emotionally with immigrant entrepreneurs. I
moved from the Bay Area back to India due to startup visa issues. Now, my
startup is seriously looking at Canada as a viable option, after India.

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olalonde
> Low taxes

They're in for a bad surprise if they move to Quebec.

~~~
manojlds
British Columbia and Alberta have lower taxes.

~~~
jbarham
25% and 26% total tax rates respectively on $100k salary according to
<http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax> versus 32% in Quebec.
Maybe Quebec's mild climate explains the difference? ;)

~~~
olalonde
And there's also the federal tax... which means you are paying about 50+%
taxes.

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presty
OT:

enjoy their awesome CIC web1.0 system

had to use it to fill in a tourist visa and it was so painful..

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buro9
What is the startup city of preference in Canada? Waterloo, Ontario?

~~~
nasalgoat
Waterloo is good for access to fresh CS graduates and excellent cost of
living, but Toronto is a better bet for access to experienced talent and
network connectivity.

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Maven911
I guess low taxes only refer to corporate taxes only

