
Ask HN: How do I ask for a raise? - lelima
What do you think is the best approach?<p>-I&#x27;m a shy person regarding this question, I have a friend that his method is &quot;I have another offer, can you matched? or I&#x27;ll leave&quot; and got a raise 3&#x2F;4 times.
======
mightybyte
In my experience, by far the best way to get a raise is to find a new job that
you think you will like as much or more than your current job and take it. In
addition to the monetary benefits, this will open the door to meeting new
people and take on new responsibilities. I've never regretted doing this, and
more than once that action gave my overall career trajectory a huge boost,
even when I already thought I was happy (which was the case most of the time).

~~~
amelius
The problem with finding a new job, as a programmer, is that you'll have to
read and become familiar with a new codebase. Most programmers I know love
coding, but hate reading other people's code.

~~~
rimliu
That’s… interesting. Stephen King advice for aspiring writers is to read a
lot. I’s say same goes for developers. Even if you read a lousy code you can
at least anslyse what makes it lousy and how can it be improved. Reading good
code will reinforce the understanding what good code is and might give some
ideas for the future. Hating reading other’s code is a sign if the still
novice programmer. Imho, of course.

~~~
alexhutcheson
Reading code I perceive as "lousy" and sometimes stepping through it with a
debugger has often been a great learning experience for me. Sometimes I even
realize that I'm wrong, and "lousy" design decisions were actually chosen to
solve some tricky problem. More often it was just written in a hurry, or
written before more modern libraries were available, but reading it still
helps me improve my brain's "pattern-matching engine" for next time I see
something similar.

------
godDLL
1\. Become divorced from the outcome. Sit down and think what it is you'd like
to be doing if you weren't doing what you are, because these things can always
go either way. Make two plans.

2\. Gather evidence FOR paying you more. You need more. Someone is getting
more doing the things you do. You're doing more than what is expected of you.
Things hinge on you. Make some evidence if it doesn't yet exist.

3\. Gather evidence AGAINST paying you more, and prepare to refute it. Make
some, if it doesn't exist yet and prepare to give up some things or distance
yourself from some things. Get into your manager's head for that. Talk to
them: say, if I (you) needed help with what you're doing, what would they be
prepared to offer? Prepare using that.

4\. Spend at least two weeks doing the above. Then schedule a morning meeting
with your manager, right after lunch is best. This will be hard, better have
shuffle the world around you in your favor. Good luck.

0\. Read some of this
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19542087](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19542087)
if you get stuck.

~~~
mcv
And when it doesn't work, find another job that pays more and leave. Don't
wait for a counter offer; a counter offer is just them admitting that they
indeed didn't pay you what you're worth, and they're only willing to do so now
because you're forcing them. That's a lousy basis for a work relationship.

Find a better job and leave. You wouldn't be the only developer for whom
that's the primary method of advancement.

~~~
godDLL
I see you have some experience with this.

It does go one of two ways, not always "when it doesn't work". But many times
your salary will indeed be capped in some manner you're not aware of.

Be prepared to lose this negotiation, but don't go in thinking that you will.
That will set you up to fail.

~~~
x0x0
This whole discussion, however, is divorced from how healthy companies
function.

In healthy places, what it takes to promote someone to the next level and his
or her progress on that is a regular subject of discussion in his or her
scheduled 1-1s with his or her manager.

So this whole tree which assumes that what the next level is, what that looks
like for a specific employee, and that employees progress on attaining that
level are entirely unknown seems just strange.

------
insickness
I recently got a raise by asking for it and it was the first time I did
something like that. It was a great exercise and a good learning experience. A
few things I figured out:

Rather than stating that you have another offer, you can research what people
in your field are making. When I asked for a raise, I put together charts and
graphs of what people are making in the industry in order to justify the
raise.

Instead of saying you would like 150k per year, ask for a very specific amount
such as 152,400 so that it seems like you've really calculated this number.

Ask for a range rather than a single number, such as 152,400-161,100. They
will likely offer something at the lower end of the range but next to the
higher number, the lower number look a lot lower than it would alone.

Be prepared to ask for intangibles if you don't get the monetary compensation.
You can ask for your own office, more vacation time, to work from home, etc.
But don't ask for these until after they have respond to your request for more
money or they may default to this instead of more money.

Understand the mindset. Even if you don't get a raise right now when you ask
for it, you are doing yourself a great service by asking for more. You are
showing that you feel you are worth it, which translates to a lot of respect
from management. Even if you don't immediately get the raise, there is a good
chance you'll get a lot more of a raise at your next review just because you
indicated that you aren't afraid to ask for more and you have confidence in
your own ability and value.

Management would rather have a good employee ask for a raise than just go out
and find another job without giving them the opportunity to discuss it.

~~~
logfromblammo
A good employee would rather have their employer make proactive efforts to
retain them, than to constantly expend their own energy just to get fair
compensation.

The employer has 365 opportunities a year to "discuss it", but most somehow
only manage to have a one-sided discussion once per year. I have never been
asked "are you happy with your current compensation?" by anyone other than
recruiters for other companies. I have frequently volunteered "I am not happy
with the apparent reduction in non-salary benefits in comparison to last year"
(mostly due to the health insurance plan).

As long as I have to ask for more money in order to get more money, I might as
well go ask someone else, too. Getting a new job is very much like asking for
a raise from someone you haven't met yet. So if I am already at that point,
there's no particular reason why I'd ask my current boss first. They could
have given me a raise any time they feel it is appropriate, yet somehow did
not.

------
om3n
What I did recently was risky, so YMMV.

I asked my boss for a raise last year around performance review time. I
explained that I had taken on a lot of responsibility, I cited some projects
that I led, and I enumerated how I had impacted our team since I had joined. I
really was the top producer on my team at the time. He explained to me that I
was already being paid more than any other engineer in my department, and he
negotiated a small raise for me that year- 6% instead of the normal ~3%. I was
disappointed.

This year, I decided to up my game. I continued to go above and beyond at
work, and then around performance review time I interviewed at a couple
companies in the area and got two written offers for 20%+ more than I was
making. I handed those to my boss and explained that I really enjoyed working
for him, and for this company, and that I don't want to leave, but I believed
this is what I was worth.

He immediately submitted me for a promotion, and I'm hopeful that the raise
will come with it. I should get the results in the next 2 weeks.

~~~
Justen
I recently went through some interviews and was trying to line up offers at
the same time but what ended up happening was one would come in, and I'd still
have a week or two process with the other company. Even telling the 2nd
company I had an offer or one coming soon to speed things up made it
impossible to get two offers at the same time. One offer would sit for a week
and that seemed to be as long as they were willing to wait, so my question is
how did you line these timetables up so that you can get more than 1 offer
without risking 1 expiring?

~~~
om3n
That part was luck. These two companies both got me through their interview
process at the same time, and they both gave me about a week to respond as
well.

I'm also in a unique situation- I think I am actually sort of hard to replace,
as I live/work in a smaller Midwest city. My manager has no interest in hiring
a remote developer, and we've been struggling to hire people for the past year
or so.

I don't think I'd try this at every company or in every city.

~~~
virtuexru
What city if you don't mind me asking? Trying to move outta one of the "Tech
hubs" in the US and move somewhere where the rents/lifestyle is more
manageable :).

------
akerl_
Some background reading:

[https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-
negotiation/](https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/)

[https://www.kalzumeus.com/2015/05/01/talking-about-
money/](https://www.kalzumeus.com/2015/05/01/talking-about-money/)

[https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-
offer...](https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/)

------
onion2k
_" I have another offer, can you matched? or I'll leave"_

Using a strategy like this can work but it also carries the risk that your
employer will just say "Bye then." _Everyone_ is replaceable. If you like your
current role or you don't actually have another job to go to I wouldn't use
this approach. Instead, try to overcome your shyness and just ask. It only
requires a one line email to initiate the conversation (eg 'I would like to
schedule a meeting to talk about my current salary.'). The simple fact is
retaining a good employee is _far_ cheaper than hiring a new one, so most
managers are happy to chat about it.

Alternatively, find a job at a company like Basecamp, where everyone gets the
same salary for doing the same job and raises are calculated by looking at
whole market for the role and increasing everyone's salary to be in the top
10% of the going rate. Basecamp employees effectively get Bay Area wages
regardless of where they live without needing to be good negotiators. It's an
good model that I hope more companies adopt.

~~~
notahacker
> Using a strategy like this can work but it also carries the risk that your
> employer will just say "Bye then." Everyone is replaceable

"I'm frequently contacted by recruiters suggesting that I have enough
experience for roles in this area paying 20% more, but I'd much rather stay
here" is a much lower risk approach of conveying the fact you have good reason
to suspect you're being paid below market rates for your current experience
and skillset. Not least because it saves you actually needing to have a firm
offer...

Of course, the employer is also less likely to say "bye then" if the focus of
your meeting is demonstrating what you've done well that's saved/made the
company money, how you've improved your productivity since the original pay
package was determined and additional responsibilities you'd be willing to
take on rather than you explaining why you might leave.

~~~
tracker1
Ironically, in my area, I'm above market already (at the top 3% or so), at
which point it's been easier to ask for other things (an extra week of
vacation time this last job cycle).

------
anonu
I would strongly recommend against the "I have another offer, can you matched"
strategy. For starters, you've just revealed your cards: that you are talking
to competitors or that you don't have much interest in working in your current
spot.

If you want a raise, ask for a meeting with your manager and layout a few good
reasons why you need a raise: you've worked there without a raise for a year+,
you've tackled on more responsibilities and executed.

Generally, to get a raise you need to meet some sort of expectation or goal.
Sometimes managers are bad at setting those goals - so do it for them. Don't
tie those goals to money beforehand. Wait til the goal is reached then review
your performance. Most managers will find it hard to turn you down.

~~~
AlexTWithBeard
_For starters, you 've just revealed your cards: that you are talking to
competitors_

I see it as: guys, I could have resigned, but I love working here so much that
I'd rather stay.

And also, please, when discussing your goals with the manager, mention the
salary raise. What you have to do for a pay increase may be different forum
what you have to do for, say, a new title. The surprise at the next review may
be quite unpleasant.

~~~
anonu
More is said when you say less. If you just lead with "I love working here"
you will create a lot less resentment than saying "I could have resigned"...

Also - I am not suggesting not to discuss a salary raise early on. I am
suggesting not tying that raise to some performance goal. Keep it open...

------
bezalmighty
“I love working here, and because of that I need to let you know that other
opportunities are becoming financially better alternatives. Would you
reconsider the maximum salary that you think I’m worth here, so that we can
keep working together?”

~~~
acoustep
I think this is the best answer. It shows you _want_ to work there still which
your boss will hopefully appreciate. Pretending to already have an offer could
come back in your face.

------
jasode
Your profile says _" Data scientist working on one of the big four"_.

Typically at a big corporation, you get raises at the designated annual review
cycle. Those raises are adjusted inside of Human Resources' pre-defined
"salary bands" for your title.

If you want to get a raise outside of the annual review, or get raises higher
than your band's ceiling, you either...

\- Get a promotion. This means you need to demonstrate to managers that you
can take on _more responsibility_ and want to be compensated higher for it.

\- Get another job offer with a higher salary. The company may match or exceed
it. Or they may not.

Either way, you have to convince your manager to go to bat for you so the
company will approve your raise.

~~~
lelima
I have a good relationship with my manager, but I feel it hard to break the
ice with Salary topics. It really hit my nerves

~~~
jasode
_> I have a good relationship with my manager,_

That's fine but that isn't what I wanted to emphasize.

My point is that if you're at a _Big Corporation_ , both you and your manager
are embedded in a _bureaucracy_. Your manager can't single-handedly wave a
wand and get you a raise on his own. He/she has to convince his superiors and
Human Resources to get you a raise.

You need to imagine what your manager's bullet points would be to argue on
your behalf to convince the company to increase your salary. What are your
leverage points?

E.g. your role in data science work is crucial to release a $200 million
product on time in the next 6 months. If you leave, everything falls apart.

On the other hand, if you have no leverage and want a raise outside of the
annual review cycle and while doing the same work with no promotion... that's
a harder sell for your manager.

~~~
late2part
To put another lens on this, if your manager goes to his boss and HR and says
I can't lose Ralph, he's indispensable... Likely his boss and management will
criticize him for building an org which has indispensable people in it.

------
ypkuby
In my experience, I've only gotten an offer of a raise when I threatened to
quit.

First Raise:

I asked for an entire year for a $5k bump in salary to meet market standards.
My performance, work ethic, etc was all well beyond my pay. After consistent
denial of raise and being told "keep up the good work and in 3 months we'll
review again" \- I went job hunting. I found another job, got the letter of
offer.

The next day I walked into my bosses office, dropped the letter on their desk
and said "I'd like to stay here, but I'll need a salary boost. In the event
you still cannot give me one, I'll send you my resignation letter promptly
this afternoon."

Three hours later, the two meetings are done, the new job offered a $25k boost
in salary + position change to management. My current employer's retention
offer was $35k boost + no position change. Since I didn't care for the
position, more the financial aspect, I accepted the retention offer. I was
also told, "don't expect another raise unless it's a promotion"

Sometimes, you just need to step on their toes, put them in the hot seat. If
they value you, they'll make a retention offer - if they don't, then have fun
at your next job.

~~~
electriclove
How long ago was that? What were your salary increases (%) in future years at
that company?

I'm asking because it doesn't seem reasonable to say "don't expect another
raise" and expect people to be happy.

~~~
ypkuby
It was 4 years ago. I have since moved on from said employer. They had been
engaging in some questionable business practices, and I had moral issues
remaining there. I had never received any raise since then.

------
isalmon
Scenario A - it's a startup: I strongly discourage you from taking "I have
another offer" approach first if you really like your current job. I've been
on the other side of the table so many times and I can tell you that by doing
this you immediately destroy all emotional capital and sense of loyalty with
your employer. If you really like your job - I'd simply talk to your manager
and say something like "I really enjoy working here and I've done X, Y and Z
since my last raise. I think my current salary is below the market. What can I
do to get a raise?".

If you're valued there - you'll get a raise. If not - time to start looking
for a new job.

Scenario B - it's a big company: Just find another job. In most cases they
have BS rules like "3% salary increase per year maximum", but it depends on
the company.

------
jlengrand
If you're shy, a way to get a raise that might sound easier is to back it up
with data, in a written format.

This allows you to prepare it well (which avoids the "losing the track") and
helps by adding a backbone to what you are saying. Hopefully that gives you
more confidence to speak out.

* Made the release process 15% faster * Implemented 4 new features that impacted 50k customers * improved documentation ....

Whatever it is, make it yours and find things that matter to you.

It will also help you proud about it. It might sound a little formal, but
having printed a one pager with a few bullets (or even a one page ppt) can
help you find the confidence needed (and you won't feel like an imposter
because it is rationally built).

Of course, adapt the method to something that will help you :), but it helped
my shy gf a lot to have a strong foot against her more vocal boss :).

------
empath75
My approach has been changing jobs.

You shouldn’t have to ask for a raise. Your company should know your value. If
they don’t, go to a company who does. Don’t bother with a counter offer
because you’ll have to do it again and again. The company has already
demonstrated they don’t value your work appropriately. Asking for a raise
isn’t going to change that situation.

Your only leverage is your willingness to leave, and you’ll only really have
that if you have an offer in hand. And by the time you have that offer, you’ve
already decided you’re leaving even if you don’t know it yet.

------
zshift
I've been subscribed to this weekly email newsletter for about 2 years now.
[https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/](https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/)

The tips I learned helped me plan a negotiation strategy during a new job
offer. it's not perfect, but it helped remove a lot of doubt from the process.

~~~
mulholio
+1 for fearless salary negotiation. Just gone through an application process
and it's earned me thousands. Haven't read the raise (as opposed to
negotiation) content, but sure it's good.

------
cpfohl
Be direct. Whether you're shy or not employment is ultimately a business deal
(as many have mentioned already). That being said, it does require
interpersonal skills.

I disagree that you have to move on to advance in your career. A lateral move
_is_ the fastest route, but if you're happy with everything but your
compensation you should tell your boss. One way to phrase it might be: "How
are raises managed at Foobar Widget Corp?"

Part of a manager's job is to help you navigate your career at your company.
If you're confident that retaining you is best for the company (and that
salary is really the only downside to your job) you should be able to
communicate that. In person would be best, but there's nothing wrong with
writing down what you want to say and reading it.

------
slezyr
> "I have another offer, can you matched? or I'll leave"

Did this, got raise. I had an offer and other company offered me more, but I
decided to stay anyway. It's been a year and I don't think I'll get another
raise any time soon. I really regret about mine decision.

------
chvid
You don't have to have a reason to ask for a raise at least once a year.

You should get a raise of around (at least?) 5% pa. 2% being general
inflation, 3% for more experience.

The whole thing about pay being tabu is a mindgame played by your employer.
Remember the person whom you are making the ask to has all the information,
negotiates pay 10 times (maybe 100 times) pr. year.

You are really being a sucker if you don't ask. And you are not doing any
favours to your fellow coworkers.

------
joshvm
If you get told no, it's very important to ask _why_. Because then you have
something actionable to work for, and you can reference that conversation next
time you ask. For example if they say you don't have enough responsibility,
then you can ask for more.

Saying you have a competing offer may work in a big company, but in lots of
smaller places that would immediately mark you as unloyal if you tried it more
than once.

As always leaving implies you live somewhere with lots of jobs on your
doorstep, and that you have the flexibility to pack up. That might not be the
case, or you might actually (shock horror) enjoy your job. Depending on your
industry, jumping ship may require a lot of preparation. You know the drill:
that means whiteboard practice, waiting for weeks to bounce around HR folks,
all day technical interviews and so on.

The subtle method is to ask for more time off (or other perks) so your
effective salary increases. I would rather have an extra 10% time off than 10%
more pay. At a smaller company working from home may be an option too.

~~~
AlexTWithBeard
_If you get told no, it 's very important to ask why_

Right. Alternatively you can ask "what can I do on my side to make my salary
higher". The management tends to get less defensive and now open with such
approach.

------
q-base
Your friend has either gambled - and it payed off (He did not have another
offer) Or he did have another offer in which case he negotiated from a
leveraged position.

Allow me to be all internet-meta-psychologist. You are having difficulties
with this because you are not ready to gamble your current position, as you do
not have another offer lined up. You like the positive outcome of the gamble
(a raise) but cannot stand the negative (loss of job).

You should only bluff if you are ready to be called on it.

I would concur with a lot of other advice here and perhaps add a little from
the book "Never split the difference".

I would probably start as others said with explaining how much you like being
there and enjoy your work. But with the market is and what other people in
your position gets paid either there or other places you are having a hard
time not looking at other career opportunities. So you would really appreciate
your managers input on how he could help you stay in your current position and
not be forced to look for other opportunities.

------
new_here
Moving diagonally to another company is generally the best way to increase
your earnings. You should get one or more offers from other companies. The
more options you have the less shy you will be because you have alternatives
if your current employer says no. Newer companies also have less leverage
because they need to fill the vacancy.

Once you have options you can have an honest conversation with your current
manager to say that you're not satisfied with what you're currently earning
and would like to earn 'x' based on the market rate for that role/your skills.
Expect some potential push back / negotiation on that figure but have a
minimum raise you want to get in order to consider it a success.

If they do not want to give you that minimum, then be prepared to take one of
your alternative options and go elsewhere. Their loss. So shop around because
at the end of the day, it's mostly just business.

------
enriquto
I never understood what is the motivation for keeping the salaries in industry
secret. It seems to reward precisely the wrong kind of behavior!

~~~
akerl_
I think you’ve answered your own question. Salaries are secret largely based
on the stigma that employers have put around publicizing them, because it
allows employers to act from a more advantaged position.

~~~
enriquto
But this system is allowed to continue only because the employees admit it. I
guess it is not illegal to disclose your own salary. Or is it? Can an employer
fire you if you disclose your salary?

In academia, even while the salaries are rather meager, at least they are
public and equal to everybody (depending only on your position and seniority,
according to some public tables). We could very well do with a bit of wage
inflation!

~~~
gusmd
In the US, for private-sector employees, not only is it not illegal, it is a
protected activity under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935. Your
employer cannot forbid or fire you for discussing salaries or job conditions.

(IANAL)

------
scarface74
Just for a little background, I’ve been working for 20+ years as a software
developer but I was a “dark matter developer” until 2008, so my career
progression over the last 10 years has looked about like that of someone who
just graduated from college in 2008 and worked in a major metropolitan city.

A few things:

Don’t threaten to quit. You don’t want to have an antagonistic relationship
with your employer.

Your value to the company is s combination of your generic skillset that can
be replaced at market value by someone coming in off the street, your
institutional knowledge, and the amount of additional value you add to the
business. If you aren’t at least getting paid the amount you can get by
switching jobs, that should be an easier conversation. Just speak to them
honestly. Explain that this is the market rate for developers with your
skillset and that is what you should be making.

There are really only two replies that they can give you. Either their
assessment of your skills don’t match what you believe or they don’t have the
budget to pay you what you are asking for. In the first case, if you believe
their assessment is fair, ask what you can do to improve. If either you don’t
think that their assessment is fair or they don’t have the budget, you have to
decide whether to stay or look for another job.

As far as the other part, your institutional knowledge and the value you bring
to the company, you have to have numbers to back you up - that you either made
the company money or that you saved the company money and explain why you feel
you deserve more.

Now, the reason I mentioned my background. For the last ten years none of the
advice I gave you has actually worked for me. But also during the beginning of
your career, you will find your market value will rise dramatically and most
companies HR practices aren’t setup to give the dramatic percent raises you
can get every two or three years by switching jobs (again not referring to
West Coast salaries, just big city wages in the US). Your best bet is to
switch companies.

Later on in your career, the job hopping strategy isn’t going to work. You
have to be able to emphasize the business value you add and/or work toward
promotions increase responsibilities.

------
everdrive
You want leverage more than you want technique. Not leverage in the sense that
you're going to be cutthroat. You just want to you know what you're worth. If
you make 100k, and some other company is willing to offer you 130k, then you
can prove you're worth at least that.

The request for a raise isn't a fight: your employment is an agreement. You
believe you're worth a certain amount, and some employer has to agree with
you. Whatever number you both agree on is your paycheck. If you don't have
leverage in the form of proof that you're worth more, it might be too easy to
get caught up in emotion. This advice depends on what sort of person you are.
I'm pretty shy too, and I don't like asking for things like raises. The point
of getting another offers is to help depersonalize things. "Hello sir, I have
another offer for this much, but I'm very happy at this company. I can't
ignore what's best for me and my family, but I wanted to check if there was
something we could do to keep me here."

That approach won't be best for everyone in every situation, but the point (as
other posters have noted) is to depersonalize it to the extent that it's just
about the money. If your current employer is affronted, you can be prepared to
really change jobs. This might mean really waiting to ask until you've gone
through an interview, etc.

------
laurentoget
Most of the replies here paint the discussion as you against your employer,
represented by your manager. In my experience things are a bit more nuanced.
Even when your manager trusts you and knows your worth, he often does not have
the authority to give you the raise you both agree you deserve. In that
context, taking a day off to interview with another company and not hiding it
from your manager may actually give him useful arguments when he has to argue
for a budget increase so he can give you that raise.

~~~
twblalock
You are correct, but I would never tell a manager I was interviewing unless I
had an offer letter.

~~~
laurentoget
i have been lucky to work with managers i could trust enough for that sort of
things.

------
bottled_poe
It’s easy. Understand how much you are worth to the company - and I do mean in
dollars. This is what management understands. It’s the hard truth, but the
dollars don’t lie. How much revenue do you individually generate for the
company each year? (Hopefully you understand your employers financial model
well enough) How much do you know about the operation, team structure,
processes, technology. What is the cost of replacing you? It is measurable in
dollars and this is how manamgent thinks. If you know how much you generate in
revenue and what your replacement cost is, you have the information to
determine your salary. Learn this, know it inside out, then request a
performance review. Also important to consider how much you are willing to
sacrifice to switch roles. Different team, different projects, different
projects, etc. You need to know where you actually draw the line before you
walk in. I’m saying this from the recruitment side.

------
xs83
You need to ask the following questions (to yourself): \- Has your salary
increased with inflation? \- Has your job changed to include increased
responsibilities? \- Do you feel others are getting paid more than you for the
same roles with similar experience?

If the answers above are no then its unlikely you would get a pay rise.

Unfortunately I have to agree with a lot of the people below, the best way of
securing more money is to find a different job with a different company.
Asking "I have been offered X - can you match it?" is a sure fire way to have
confidence in you reduced.

If you feel you are capable (and the company can support it) then by all means
ask for a promotion and a salary package that matches it and your wants.

New jobs mean new challenges and new learning experiences - this should also
factor into your decision, the ability to work at something modern you are
interested in on the job is a perk many people dismiss!

------
nurettin
It is a very emotional subject, so beware that both parties are prone to
making mistakes at this stage.

Go discreetly, say "Hi, I need a raise, please consider this amount and tell
me if this is acceptable." and pass a paper with the amount written on it.

Anything more or less will be unprofessional and will probably lead to more
headaches than needed.

~~~
akerl_
Why would it be unprofessional to say the number out loud?

I’d say the most dangerous part of the approach you’re recommending is that it
doesn’t provide any context for why the raise is justified to the company.

This is only an emotional subject for the person getting the paycheck; it’s
not emotional for the business, and it’s only emotional for the employee
because of years of ingrained stigma about salary.

~~~
nurettin
Why would asking for an evaluation from your superiors be dangerous? I think
that was just random.

~~~
akerl_
Nothing in this comment thread seems to ask for an evaluation.

Asking “I’d like $x, is this acceptable” invites a Boolean response. Either
they think it’s acceptable or not, with neither you nor your comp lead
discussing _why_.

If you want to know “how would you evaluate my performance / accomplishments /
etc”, ask that. If you want to know about a raise, start by telling your comp
lead why you feel it’s justified, rather than leaving it up to them to define.

~~~
nurettin
I don't think this is true, asking for a higher wage will implicitly prompt an
evaluation. No other words are necessary to complicate the situation. If you
start justifying your request, you are already playing some sort of defensive
game. There is no need for that and I don't believe it is professional to do
so.

------
ticmasta
The easiest way to get a raise is to change companies. You can then ask your
current company to match, but in my experience (from the company side) this
never works out in the long term. You'll be branded (at best) a hired gun and
not trusted beyond "work for hire".

For a less dramatic increase you can change jobs internally but the impact to
your take-home is far less significant. You can also play off any goodwill
you've banked (like history of quality work, extra dedication, etc) to ask for
more vacation, training budget, etc. Try for things that can be part of your
new _regular_ package; ex: an extra week of vacation each year vs. a one-time
2-week bonus.

The short answer is test the job market, get a better offer and take it.

------
vfinn
My reasons for asking for a raise:

1) Your responsibilities have increased 2) You have become an integral and
important part of the team/project, so it would be costly for them to replace
you 3) Your skills have improved

The second and the third point rely on the fact that you'd be probably able to
get a better salary elsewhere. The first point is mostly about fairness. By
assuring that you're treated fairly, they can be sure that you do your best.
The second point is the least likeable reason for me, because in that scenario
you're not making the judgment from your perspective but from theirs (by
realizing your salary potential by not screwing them).

------
d3sandoval
Employees create value for the company they work for. If you can demonstrate
that you are more valuable than what they're paying you now, then it's a
pretty straightforward conversation.

One way to do this is to find out what others will offer you on the market, as
others have suggested. Another is to identify how your work pushed
company/team/individual metrics in the right direction. Being able to say "My
work on [this project] led to a 25% decrease in churn" demonstrates your
ability to provide monetary value to the company. If they want to keep making
more money, they would be wise to keep you.

~~~
nvahalik
One thing that worked for me is “how can I be more valueable?”

Worked for a company for a year and loved it but was in a bit of a rut. After
talking to my superior I ended up taking on an additional role but making
more.

------
ams6110
At most organizations, whether public sector or private, you only get
significant raises on your initial hire and if you change positions/job
titles.

It's hard to get a big raise without taking on more or higher-level
responsibilities.

------
pattle
Don't be shy, employers often need you more than you need them because the
cost of losing an employee and having to rehire and train is incredibly
expensive.

I think the best first course of action is to organise a meeting with your
manager and just clearly state the salary increase you're after. Always back
it up with evidence as to why your worth the raise. Often the more direct you
are and the less you say the better.

If that doesn't work start job hunting and get an offer that you can take to
your employer and use as leverage.

Don't get too loyal because companies often aren't loyal to their employees.

~~~
icedbergs1
I've found more success clearly stating the increase I need to stay with the
company without submitting reasons why I am worth the raise, except maybe
saying that you believe your market value has changed.

I feel like if you start talking up specific points, you create things that
can be argued back against and shot down while avoiding the main discussion of
how much you are prepared to sell your skills for, and whether the company can
pay you that much.

If you're prepared to leave and feel your market value matches the increase
you're asking for, make it more of a demand than a negotiation. If you do want
to keep this position, don't tell them why you deserve a raise, let them tell
you why you don't deserve one, and counter their reasons instead of laying
your cards down first.

Not a huge thing, but don't underestimate how much it can change the
conversation.

------
kreetx
Not sure where I read it (perhaps "Hire with your head" by Lou Adler) but
asking to match salary might not be the way to go. If you (think you) know how
much you should be making then ask for that, perhaps adding a bit to it to
have room for bargaining.

You should also know why you are staying (do you actually want to continue? is
it still exciting to you?), if yes, then it will be much easier to explain
what you have to offer. Otherwise, even if you should get more when compared
to others, you might feel teethless when asking for it.

------
huhtenberg
This works really well, but you need to have an actual offer for this to work.

Otherwise it's a bluff and if they call it, you end up with the same salary
_and_ on a list of unreliable employees.

Obviously, you need to be very tactful and polite when asking for a raise, and
generally blame it on financial/life circumstances beyond your control that
force you to look at other companies despite of really liking it here and
never wanting to leave otherwise... or some such.

------
samuelyoussif
I would offer something in return for the employer, because if you take their
side it is illogical to give you more just because you would like to. You can
tell your employer that "I would like to take more responsibilities" and
actually take it even before talking of any raise, then try to ask, at this
moment you have proven to be valuable and trustworthy. Earn your raises and
direct them for your own growth.

------
dyeje
Do you have regular one-on-one meetings with your boss? The 1st step is to
ask. That is when you'll set the goal posts to get the raise. They may give
you some objectives to work on or be satisfied with your performance already
and give it to you. If they're not willing to seriously discuss the matter,
that's a red flag and you should probably consider job hunting.

------
mortdeus
find another job offer that is willing to pay you what you feel you are worth
and then approach your CEO and ask for the raise stating why you feel you
deserve higher compensation. If they flat out turn you down, then state that
you have another situation that is willing to pay you what you feel is fair
compensation for your services but also state reasons why you'd rather stay
working there.

If they still aren't trying to give you what you want, than say thank you for
the great experience working there but you must go where you receive the most
benefits.

Also its worth asking for compensation in vested preferential stock if you
anticipate there being a substantial increase in the company's evaluation down
the road. Though remember that you have to actually buy the stocks out of
pocket when the time comes to execute your stock option. Which if you are
barely covering your overhead now you should be careful anticipating actually
having access to the money at that later date

~~~
mortdeus
Its really not the CEOs job to ensure that everybody gets paid what is
moralistically fair to the employees because he has a fudiciary responsibility
to the share holders to maximize the return on their investment.

What this means is doing whatever is necessary to retain valued employees and
yet also try and make that profit to revenue ratio as high as possible on
their quarterly report. Or at least make it look like that ratio will net
positive in the near future.

What this means to you is that if your CEO is actually willing to let you
walk, assuming he's not bad at his job, you need to really consider whether
they can afford to pay you (and everyone else for that matter) more while
still being able to reach their quarterly goals.

Thats why you might want to consider asking for stock options instead because
if the CEO is focusing on increasing the companies valuation, chances are you
can make even more money down the line.

In conclusion don't just expect that a CEO who is negotiating hard with you,
is only doing so because they are trying to cheat you. They might actually
personally agree that you should probably get paid more but they probably feel
that way about themselves as well.

Stock is always the last ditch best effort to try and get the compensation you
feel you deserve. Plus it reassures the CEO that they don't have to worry as
much about losing you to the competition. At least not for a couple more
years, and who knows. Maybe by then the company will do so well you'll be in a
much better position to negotiate for a promotion.

------
alexcason
The best way to find out if a company values your work enough to offer you a
raise is to interview for other jobs, get an offer and hand in your notice.
They'll soon offer you an increase if they want you to stay. It puts you in a
strong negotiating position too.

~~~
fb03
If you hand in your notice, you might as well leave.

Managers are people too and can get really grumpy at your 'oneuppance'. They
may give you a raise just to fire you a few months forward, making you lose
your currently better offer (If you handed a notice, that was actually what
you transmitted - "I want out").

Happens a lot more than one might expect.

------
Nursie
If you're genuinely underpaid then make preparations to leave and find
somewhere else.

Changing workplace every so often will help with your shyness anwyay, plus a
lot of folks find more varied work more stimulating.

------
scarejunba
I just ask every three months how I can have a bigger impact on the company. I
then say "Let's talk compensation." And just make the case. Normalize the
conversation.

------
careerin_tech
The current job market is tight. Every company has an interest in keeping good
employees. Just ask for a raise in a polite email or meeting.

------
jjmiv
yeah the only way i ever received a raise was changing jobs. i guess it was
because I knew what the answer would be if I asked for a raise: "do not have
the budget." or "you have not met x expectations". whether that would be true
or not, its usually a sign to move on.

------
bryanrasmussen
Did he actually have another offer though?

~~~
lelima
Yes, was 20% more. But he said it was about 40%. They matched.

------
logfromblammo
If you are in the position where you feel as though you are underpaid, there
are several possibilities:

    
    
      A. Median salary or cost of living has gone up in your locale.
      B. You have taken on additional responsibilities.
      C. Your individual job-market value has permanently increased.
      D. None of these.
    

In case of A, wait until the annual review has completed. If your salary is
not adjusted appropriately, notify the company through normal channels--by
telling your manager--that the annual pay adjustment apparently did not
account for changes in the local market, and that the company's compensation
may be becoming less competitive. Don't ask for an individual raise. Ask that
the compensation for all same-locale employees in your work group be re-
reviewed, using survey data for your locale this time. If you, specifically,
don't get a raise within 30 days, start looking for other jobs. At the exit
interview, say only that you are leaving because you got a better offer
elsewhere. By this time, you can't say anything else helpful to you or the
company, so don't. If you do get a raise, ask around your peers to see if they
got one also. If they did not, stop to seriously assess whether yours is a
"squeaky wheel gets the grease" company or a "the nail that sticks out gets
hammered down" company, and maybe still go job-hunting if you feel paranoid
enough.

In case of B, you should be offered a raise by the end of the quarter in which
you took on additional responsibilities. So on 1Jan, 1Apr, 1Jul, and 1Oct,
think about whether you were given any additional job duties during the
previous quarter. If you were, and you did not get a raise, meet with your
manager to determine whether those additional responsibilities were intended
to be temporary or permanent. If the former, ask for a bonus. If the latter,
ask for a bonus and a raise. Don't mention a specific amount, other than "a
fair amount for what I have been doing," so they make the first offer. If they
lowball, counter it once, and then immediately accept whatever their next
offer is. If that was still too low, go job-hunting.

In case of C, you need to build a case for a raise, and ask for a specific
amount of additional compensation. If you earned a new degree or
certification, or professional society membership, my approach would probably
be to ask about updating the internal company resume, and mention that the
changes will reflect an increase in value as an employee. Discussions of
salary adjustments might get deferred until the next regularly-scheduled
review, which seems reasonable to me. During that process, make sure to ask
whether the additions you made will be considered in the final results. It is
reasonable to also ask for a one-time bonus for resume-worthy achievements. If
you don't get a raise that meets expectations, go job-hunting.

Case D seems most difficult to me. You'd basically just be saying "I want more
money for the same amount of work". Don't say that. Instead, say "I want to do
a little bit more work, but get a lot more money for it." In other words, ask
for additional hours, additional duties, or promotion to a job title that has
a higher pay-to-work ratio, and then after getting that, renegotiate pay as in
cases B or C. Even if all you get is a change in job title with no change in
pay, make sure it is a title that gets paid more at other companies. Then,
when you go job-hunting later, you can get higher offers.

Your best alternative to negotiated agreement is always to take whatever the
company offers and live with it while you are searching for other jobs.

I'm not a fan of telling my current employer that I have a competitive offer.
I'd just resign, and take the offer. It's not really my job to do employee-
retention work for the company. I'd be sure to mention that the only reason
I'm leaving is a better offer, and that I would consider working for the
company again later, if that were to change.

------
TheTruth1234
[https://media.giphy.com/media/7B71Ci4KE3m0/giphy.gif](https://media.giphy.com/media/7B71Ci4KE3m0/giphy.gif)

------
qrbLPHiKpiux
Why do you think you deserve one? Answer that, we can help you more.

