

Apple seeking to patent spyware - chmike
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/08/steve-jobs-watching-you-apple-seeking-patent-0

======
ubernostrum
So as about a million comments on Slashdot -- about as Apple-hating a place as
you'll find -- pointed out, this patent application is basically for the phone
equivalent of OnStar's "someone stole my car, find it and shut it down"
system, plus a couple extra features like taking a picture of the thief or
detecting attempts to get through the passcode lock. The patent, if granted,
will most likely be bogus, but the intent is perfectly reasonable.

Of course, reasonable things don't generate lots of pageviews and donations,
so it has to be spun into some megalomaniacal complex Steve Jobs has which
drives him to want to spy on you, _you personally_ and take away all your
freedoms to suit his nefarious purposes. Which is vicious lying stinking
reeking bullshit FUD, which is what EFF has lately taken to using as a
signature tactic, which is why I no longer donate to them.

~~~
jarmop
Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not,
is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.

~~~
masklinn
> This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you
> steal your own phone.

Uh... how? And what sense does that even make? How can you steal what you
already own exactly?

~~~
nuclear_eclipse
If Apple doesn't agree with you that you own the software on the phone, then
jailbreaking your phone is "stealing" the software from them...

~~~
alextgordon
It seems much more likely that they'll use this to recover stolen phones
(which makes them money), than to spy on jailbreakers (which makes them no
money, and will probably get them sued).

~~~
jrockway
You forgot part 3, where law enforcement compels Apple to activate this
"feature" on whomever the suspect of the day is.

Most people don't realize that they are trading their privacy for a shiny GUI
when they buy an iPhone, which is why the EFF tries to remind them.

~~~
masklinn
> Most people don't realize that they are trading their privacy for a shiny
> GUI when they buy an iPhone

You do realize that you trade privacy for convenience every time you carry a
cell phone with you — unless it's a one-time phone with prepaid SIMs — don't
you?

There is no need for "a shiny GUI" for that, be it Apple's, Google's or HP's.

~~~
jrockway
That's true, but while my government-tapped phone can only harm _my_ privacy,
_your_ government-tapped iPhone can harm everyone's privacy (by recording
sounds and video and sending them to Apple's Centralized Server).

Now, I know there is no "expectation of privacy" in public, but does anyone
really expect that some random person's phone is recording a video stream of
you and storing it indefinitely on a private company's servers?

~~~
ubernostrum
Government agencies have used cellular phones as recording devices since long
before there was such a thing as an iPhone. Take your meds and get some sleep.

~~~
jrockway
Oh yeah. The government has already taken some privacy rights, so we should
stop speaking out against taking more.

You can do that, but I'm going to continue to support the EFF and ACLU.

 _Take your meds and get some sleep._

I wouldn't need the meds if the Internet wasn't so full of rhetoric like this!

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Samuel_Michon
From the patent description:

    
    
      "Many [..] electronic devices are used frequently by 
     their owners, and the electronic devices may contain 
     personal or sensitive information stored within them. [..] 
     Accordingly, if the electronic device is lost or stolen, 
     the loss of the electronic device can be exceedingly 
     disruptive to the owner's peace of mind and security. 
     Thus, the owner may desire to find out where the lost 
     electronic device is located or who may have gained 
     possession of or stolen the electronic device."
    

Note the use of the word "owner", not "Evil Empire". What is being described
here is a service called "Find my iPhone", which is part of Apple's MobileMe
subscription service. (What, you didn't think Apple would be spying on you for
free, did you? $99 a year, baby!)

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aaronbrethorst
"traitorware"? Wow, that's not unnecessarily inflammatory at all!

~~~
blasdel
They're taking after the RMS school of linkbait PR — a mix of activism that's
too earnest for all but their most strident supporters and neologisms so punny
that even your dad would groan at them.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
I know. I know. It isn't endearing when RMS or the FSF do it either. Turns me
off from supporting them in the future.

~~~
jrockway
OTOH, it keeps my $120 a year flowing.

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Gormo
What Apple is attempting to patent sounds almost exactly like the software
that was at the center of that school-district spyware scandal a few months
ago:

<http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/webcamscanda/>

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akmiller
I'd be fine with this as long as it is an optional install. If the software is
forced on you is where it becomes a problem. Apple could have the best
intentions ever, but as mentioned in the article, if they have this capability
the government, at some point, will come knocking.

~~~
masklinn
"The Government" doesn't need this. Your standard phone already has everything
it needs to locate you and tap your communications.

~~~
akmiller
I disagree...the government will very much want this as I don't have a
standard phone anymore because of cell phones. Many people are getting rid of
their land-lines in favor of one phone. Not to mention that tapping my phone
would likely require a warrant whereas in this situation they simply have to
convince Apple it's in there best interest to comply.

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protomyth
Bogus articles like this, particularly from an organization with a serious
reputation, obscures good articles that point out actual dangers. This is a
patent on a form of lojack or extension to what's already available on the
mobileme website. I am much more afraid of a thief using the stolen data than
the government (who already have means to do this).

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houseabsolute
Answers the question: why do normal people, when they know the EFF exists at
all, think it is a joke?

~~~
bitdiddle
Well I never understood the phrase "normal people", that's sort of like "the
real world", but given that "most people"(choose your study and scary high
percentage) can't identify which century the civil was fought it and believe
the president is a muslim, it wouldn't surprise me that normal people would
think that an organization dedicated to protected their constitutional and
civil rights was a joke.

~~~
tvon
> _an organization dedicated to protected their constitutional and civil
> rights_

The appeal to emotion aside, that sounds like serious work, maybe they should
avoid sensationalist blog posts and snarky little nicknames like "traitorware"
that make them sound childish.

I certainly take them a little less seriously now than I did before I read the
linked blog post.

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omouse
Everyone here is talking about the sensationalistic headline from the EFF.
What about all the hype and sensationalism that follows Apple products??

The EFF is trying to work in your best interests, for the sake of _your_
privacy. Apple is not.

~~~
nanairo
The danger is that it could backfire... ever read the fairy tale of the child
who cried wolf?

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37prime
Sensationalistic headline from EFF. Then again, they need to raise some
awareness, even though I am not always siding with them. I still do support
the EFF.

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natch
Talk about prior art, Google already does most of this.

~~~
teamonkey
I've had Prey installed for some time (though I've never needed to use it).

<http://preyproject.com/>

It doesn't do the biometrics stuff, but then neither does Google.

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benbeltran
It seemst hat MobileMe is getting a biometric update huh?

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geuis
Link to patent
[http://www.patentvest.com/console/reports/docs/app/201002077...](http://www.patentvest.com/console/reports/docs/app/20100207721.html)

