
GitLab – A $1B business where all employees work remotely - jaoued
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alejandrocremades/2019/07/21/he-built-a-1-billion-business-where-all-700-employees-work-remotely/
======
sytse
GitLab the company exists because of HN
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4428278](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4428278)

Ask me anything.

~~~
jeena
I was in the team where we decided what to use to serve git repos + to do peer
reviews for a big German car manufacturer. We decided on GitLab because it had
a normal fork-workflow but was open source and we wanted to divert some of the
money into one of the open source projects. Now we have around 600 users in
that project.

Most of the things work great but we have the problem that we want to use
Jenkins instead of the build in CI/CD solution but the only way to trigger MR
jobs from GitLab forks in Jenkins is this non maintained plugin which has been
in alpha since we started two years ago
[https://github.com/Argelbargel/gitlab-branch-source-
plugin](https://github.com/Argelbargel/gitlab-branch-source-plugin)

So I wonder, what is the reason behind not investing into integrations with
other CI systems like Jenkins which are hugely popular and used by so many
people?

~~~
jl-gitlab
Hey there, PM for CI/CD here. Can you point me to an issue in either GitLab or
the Jenkins Plugin repo that has more info specifically on what you're looking
to do that isn't possible today? Or share specifically what you need here so I
can make one? That other project seems to have a few different features and
I'm not sure which use cases exactly are important for you.

In any case, we definitely want to make sure you have the right
functionalities you need.

~~~
jeena
Basically what we need is functionality which makes it possible to do:

\- there is a canonical git repo for a component

\- a dev doesn't have write access to it

\- they fork it into their own private user name space

\- they change it and create a merge request for the canonical git repo for
one of the branches

\- the merge request creates (or triggers) a job in Jenkins => this is where
our research showed that only the unmaintained gitlab-branch-source-plugin
plugin can do that [https://github.com/Argelbargel/gitlab-branch-source-
plugin](https://github.com/Argelbargel/gitlab-branch-source-plugin)

\- Jenkins builds it and reports the status back to GitLab

\- If it created a new job that job is removed after the MR gets merged.

It would be nice if, like the other plugin does it one could have it's own job
for this MR with it's own history but I guess we could live also with a shared
history if you could have the MR buld history in GitLab only.

 _update:_ I forgot to write that we use Jenkinsfile based pipelines, not sure
if this is important.

~~~
jl-gitlab
I've created [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ce/issues/64995](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/64995) \-
please join us in the conversation there.

------
Roritharr
I just don't get why their support always leaves our company hanging, is this
a strategy to success?

We want to renew our license for a lower amount of people as last year and
that seems to be a major issue, as we won't get responses from
renewals@gitlab.com and our Technical Account Manager, after giving us
directions that simply did not work stopped responding last week.

Friday our license will expire if we don't pony up for nearly twice the amount
of seats than we actually need.

The last time I complained here someone bumped up our tickets but we still had
to resolve the technical issue ourselves as the only option was to setup the
instance differently, which an easy response from a support agent could have
told us without a multi week delay.

I love the product, but have stopped recommending GitLab to anyone above a 10
people org for those reasons.

~~~
lkozloff
Hi @Roritharr - Support Manager here.

It was me who helped your tickets along last time, and I'm sorry to hear that
you're having trouble again. Someone should be in touch on your renewals issue
soon.

If you're interested in the story; there's a bit of nuance here. Support
actually falls under Engineering in GitLab, and licensing falls under Sales.
That means that technical issues and upgrades/renewals fall under different
teams.

The good news is that we're working hard in both areas to improve. \- We've
significantly increased the headcount of the licensing team, this should mean
faster responses on licensing queries in the near term future. \- We've formed
a Fulfillment team who is hard at work automating away some of the manual
process associated with renewals. (You can see their priorities here:
[https://about.gitlab.com/direction/fulfillment/#-current-
foc...](https://about.gitlab.com/direction/fulfillment/#-current-focus))

Specifically from the Support side, we're discussing process improvements that
will mean fewer languishing tickets like you've described. There are a few in
flight, but the one I'm personally most excited about is
[https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/support/support-team-
meta/issu...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/support/support-team-
meta/issues/1771).

You'll note, I did just write it up - so there's not much discussion there
yet. If you're feeling up for it, we'd love to have your input. Feel free to
leave a comment there if you have any colour that could help.

I hope next time we bump into each other on HN it'll be under happier
circumstances.

As always, if you'd like to discuss this more, feel free to email me directly
at lyle[at]gitlab[dot]com.

~~~
Roritharr
Hi, thanks for your response. I'd love to know if our problem is technical or
not, as either we're misunderstanding the true-up licensing model or the user
limit counting is faulty.

We're coming from a 30 Users License last year, with two true-up on-top of
that.

Now we're down to 17 active users, so after our TAMs reply we bought a License
with 19 Users. When trying to add the License we're getting an error that in
the Last year 30 users have been active so we need to renew for this amount...

Is this a bug?

~~~
Roritharr
For future reference:

Indeed it was a bug before v12.

GitLab was able to provide me with a License File which worked on our version
11.10.6-ee Installation before our time ran out.

------
nakodari
The first half of the article doesn't even name the business. The name of the
business, GitLab, is hidden in the second half of the article. This is an
example of a publication optimizing blindly for Google Search Optimization
where they want to improve "Time on site" and other data by keeping the
readers on the page as long as possible. It's frustrating. Google's algorithm
needs to be updated to make it smarter otherwise publishers are going to write
such articles which will cause a loss of productivity of the readers. Not sure
whom to blame here, I guess both Forbes and Google share the blame for this.

~~~
systemtest
I noticed this when you google "name-of-movie post credit scene". Not a single
result will instantly tell you if this movie has a scene after the credits. It
will have a multiple paragraph review of the movie and your answer is hidden
somewhere in there. All I want is a simple yes or no answer.

~~~
duckmysick
I found the main discussion threads on the /r/movies surbeddit the easiest way
of finding if there's a post credit scene. The info is in the original post,
so there's no need to read comments with potential spoilers.

[http://aftercredits.com](http://aftercredits.com) is a pretty good source as
well, but I checked it out after your comment and surprisingly it doesn't show
in the top search results for "<movie> post credit scene".

~~~
jtcruthers
More and more of my google searches are being appended by "reddit". Someone's
asked it before and it takes half a second to load/skip for it. It's sad, but
effective

~~~
wasdfff
Pretty much all of my searches have that operator now. You used to type your
keywords and relevant forums would come up on page 1, brimming with
information from people who were knowledgable and eager to share what they
know. I have no idea what these niche forums are going to be called, so I have
to defer to reddit for my searches.

~~~
coldpie
The reddit keyword is very useful, and so is just "forum". That keyword tends
to pop up on forums, so it's useful for finding those niche forums.

------
carlsborg
"After starting and selling app store Appappeal, Sid turned open-source
software GitLab into a fast-growing venture that is on its way to an IPO in
2020.

He took the proceeds from his previous venture, doubled it in bitcoin, and
began bootstrapping GitLab.com.

Sid got the first few hundred signups through an article posted on Hacker
News. Then together with his cofounder applied and got into Y Combinator. The
race to demo day, where they would present in front of top tier investors, was
on.

Compressing their three-month plan into just two weeks, the GitLab team had a
highly successful demo day, landing Ashton Kutcher as an investor."

~~~
SenHeng
> Ashton Kutcher

The actor?

Did he start becoming involved in the tech scene after working on the Jobs
movie?

~~~
dbbk
He's been an investor for quite a while, he even did a few episodes of Shark
Tank.

------
disko
Jeez, his surname is spelled differently 3x in the first couple of paragraphs
(Sijbrandij / Sijbrandiij / Sijbrandi). Proof-reading, anyone?

~~~
bennyelv
I suspect this could be an SEO trick for people who mis-spell the name when
searching.

~~~
dboreham
Ahhh. Finally we understand the genius of "covfefe".

~~~
c0vfefe
Finally, some respect!

------
kevinyun
Wow, had no idea GitLab was close to an IPO. Is there a lesson about saturated
markets and differentiation that can be learned from them? I'd be all ears

~~~
sjg007
There’s probably room for another git* hosted company.

~~~
PopeDotNinja
There's probably room for lots of them. There's always some unmet need that
hasn't been addressed by the market, and everyone needs software these days!

------
keb_
I tried switching to Gitlab for my hobby projects over a year ago (before
Github had free private repos), but recently, have decided to move back to
Github, mostly for UX purposes. Not sure what it is about Gitlab's UI, but I
find it more difficult to navigate and parse visually than Github's. I am a
hobbbyist developer though and rarely work with other people.

Granted, Gitlab CI was awesome the one time I used it.

------
wodenokoto
If you don't know who "he" is, the lead is buried under the fourth sub-
heading:

> After starting and selling app store Appappeal, Sid turned open-source
> software GitLab into a fast-growing venture that is on its way to an IPO in
> 2020.

------
RicStrong
I think remote roles are becoming a lot more accepted in tech. No time wasted
on the commute, and companies can save costs of office spaces, etc.

I'm so optimistic about remote working for developers, it's even been a key
feature in a job matching platform I've been working on:
[https://www.rocketship.dev/](https://www.rocketship.dev/)

~~~
eeeeeeeeeeeee
I think it’s also the realization of a supply problem. A lot of companies
around the world cannot compete on compensation with the larger tech companies
in the Bay Area, and many people don’t want to move there, so it’s win-win.

------
raverbashing
"What, like it's hard?"

What's hard is not building the business (not harder than building a local
business), what's hard is leaving the preconceived notion of how to
communicate with people, build trust and collaborate

Until you leave the preconceived notion of productivity = seats in desks and
people chattering on the office (roll eyes) then "it is (going to be) hard"

------
roadbeats
Wordpress is another example, they employ close to 1000 remotely working
people (as I heard from a friend working at there).

~~~
langitbiru
Automattic is the name of the company. WordPress is the name of the product.

Anyway, what I like about GitLab and Automattic is they are agnostic-timezone
remote company. You can live in any timezone to work in GitLab or Automattic.

Some remote companies only accept certain timezones.

~~~
xiphias2
What's most interesting to me is remote + scale.

There are many small remote companies that don't try to scale, as they
prioritise just having a nice product that solves 1 relatively simple task
very well, while having a comfortable life style for the employees.

But so far there's no remote-first company on the stock market.

~~~
meowface
It's only recently become possible to run a remote-first company in an
effective and cheap way. Give it time.

~~~
xiphias2
What do you mean? Video conferencing was already easy to do 10 years ago.

Looking back to the history of GitLab you are right that it just took 8 years
to scale the company to this size, but I hope that others are already coming.

~~~
meowface
There are way more requirements to run a company than simply being able to
communicate by voice or video. There's a lot of infrastructure and overhead
that's involved. Before Stripe, you might have to store credit cards, and then
you might need physically colocated servers. Before G Suite and AWS and... I
haven't started a startup myself, but I believe there are a lot of variables
involved.

These kinds of apps and services, and video conferencing, were all around 10
years ago, but everything's been improved and consolidated enough that now a
100% remote company can actually go toe-to-toe with one that isn't. 10 years
isn't that long ago in the scheme of the global market economy. Technological
progress takes time. VR was available 10 years ago, but it's still not really
"ready for primetime". Remote working solutions, for all aspects of work, are
now ready for primetime.

------
tmpfs
We really, really wanted to use and like Gitlab but after a few months trial
found the UX very poor in comparison to the main competitor.

The icon heavy interface and general layout decisions made things
hard/cumbersone to find, any plans to invest in an improved UX for the web UI?

------
jasode
Fyi... A previous comment subtree that includes a comment on Gitlab financials
from the CEO/founder:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18442952](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18442952)

------
BeetleB
>After starting and selling app store Appappeal, Sid turned open-source
software GitLab into a fast-growing venture that is on its way to an IPO in
2020.

Open source software?

~~~
sytse
I try to say open core software (some of it is proprietary) and that is what
we try to use in our website and blog posts.

Sometimes I mess up and sometimes the journalist prefers a more common term.

------
bluedino
All they say about the actual 'remote work', is there's a webcam meeting every
day.

~~~
sytse
You can find more details on [https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-
remote/tips/](https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/tips/)

------
grizzles
Is it profitable though?

~~~
sytse
Not close to being profitable since we're optimizing for growth (more than
doubling year over year). Cash flow positive planned no later then 2023
[https://about.gitlab.com/company/strategy/#sequence](https://about.gitlab.com/company/strategy/#sequence)

~~~
e1g
Can you confirm if GitLab increased revenue 10x in 2018? A previous profile
stated the revenue was $10M in 2017
([https://www.forbes.com/sites/alejandrocremades/2019/07/21/he...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alejandrocremades/2019/07/21/he-
built-a-1-billion-business-where-all-700-employees-work-
remotely/#42d13d602aa9)) and this article says it is now $100M. This is a
phenomenal achievement, but the valuation ought to be more than $1B at that
trajectory.

~~~
sytse
Do did not increase revenue by 10x in 2018. We more than doubled IACV (and
hence revenue) in 2018.

~~~
the-dude
The what?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idle_air_control_actuator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idle_air_control_actuator)

~~~
vidarh
[https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/sales/#incremental-
annual-...](https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/sales/#incremental-annual-
contract-value-iacv)

Amazing amount of detail of how Gitlab operates is public.

------
cjslep
It's an article about GitLab and Sid, since the title doesn't make it clear.

~~~
MasterScrat
Can a mod please update the title?

~~~
Rainymood
If you feel inclined to, flag the article, but I doubt they will change it as
the title of the post is exactly the title of the article.

~~~
Moter8
As an answer to your comment, I had flagged the post. Guess what, they changed
the title :)

------
trilila
Would be interesting to know if they discriminate pay, according to where the
person works from.

Edit: Further down the page I saw: "Why they pay based on where team members
live". That's petty.

~~~
mynegation
There is nothing petty about it. Everyone does it, but GitLab is just more
transparent about it. It is up to you whether you accept the compensation
level or not, GitLab is far from a monopoly on labour demand

~~~
malvosenior
Everyone does not do this. I work remote and get a fair market rate (for the
value I add, not based on where I live). Unfortunately I couldn't apply to
Gitlab last time I was in the market for work because their salaries are both
lower in general and lowered even further due to geo adjustment.

I'm fully a fan and believer of remote work, but you need to pay your
employees just like any other top tier company would. It's actually even more
important as you really want the best people for remote work since they need
to be excellent communicators and more self-directed than in-house employees.

~~~
c0vfefe
> I work remote and get a fair market rate (for the value I add, not based on
> where I live)

Unfortunately there are two misconceptions here: 1) that companies pay based
on added value and not on replacement cost, & 2) that "a fair market rate"
does not vary with location, when in reality different locations have
different labor markets.

The reason SV companies pay so much is because their candidates expect it, and
part of why they expect it is the high cost of living in the area. A company
that pays less than average will get worse/fewer candidates, thus a local
labor market. For a remote company, paying an SV employee the same rate as a
midwest employee is to effectively compensate the latter much higher, and
what's fair about that?

~~~
malvosenior
Companies pay what you can negotiate with them. This is based on value add,
and alternatives on both sides of the table. If you can pitch the value you
create, you can get paid accordingly.

~~~
c0vfefe
It's very hard to quantify the marginal business value given by a single
employee, especially if they're just starting in the position.

Economics is driven by scarcity - supply and demand. Companies have no
financial incentive to pay us any more than it would take to hire a
replacement. They're in the business of making profit, which necessarily means
paying people less than the business value they add, and if a company wants to
be very profitable, the only way is to pay substantially less than the value
received.

So even if you pitch based on value add, you're really just signaling that you
have top skills which are in short supply, and they'd better pay you more or
else some other company will. They have no obligation or incentive to pay
commensurate with value add, only to pay just enough to keep getting the value
add.

