
Smoothies and fruit juices are a new risk to health - uladzislau
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/07/smoothies-fruit-juices-new-health-risk
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jakobe
It's often quite surprising to read the ingredient list on these smoothies.
They consist largely of apple juice concentrate, and rather small amounts of
the fruits advertised on the front.

~~~
iamshs
This is what I would like to know more about. Other day I picked up a 32oz
smoothie, which said this is equivalent to 40 strawberries, 1 banana and 6
apples. How is that possible in only $5? Do they get fruits so cheap to make
up for other costs? And true enough, there was strawberry puree, banana puree
but apple juice concentrate and apple puree in it.

~~~
crazygringo
From what I understand, fruit is a LOT cheaper at the "source" \-- before
they're shipped, individually sold, etc. Which is why it's SO much cheaper to
buy jam, than to make it yourself.

However, if you think of it purely from a volume standpoint... if you stuck 6
apples and 40 strawberries in a blender, I have a feeling that's gonna add up
to significantly more than 32oz. Maybe they're really tiny apples...

~~~
jmccree
Also, they can use fruit that doesn't look as pretty or is lower quality.
Fruit used for juices are those not pretty enough to sell, fruit used for
concentrate is those not tasty enough for "pure" juice.

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DanielBMarkham
Fruit juices maybe. Smoothies are a much more complex issue.

I make my own smoothies, 3 or 4 a week.

I know what goes in there. I put 1, sometimes 2 cups of fruit or berries. No
added sugar, no fruit mixes, no "smoothie mix" stuff. I also add Greek Yogurt,
protein, and all sorts of other mostly glycemic-neutral items.

I've also seen pre-canned and restaurant smoothies that I wouldn't touch with
a ten-foot pole. Some of these things are sugar bombs. Incredible amount of
glycemic impact. You'd be better off just getting a milkshake.

But for me, two cups of fruit a day is not a significant health risk at all.
While I completely agree that fruit juice and smoothie consumption can be just
another sugary alternative to soft drinks, they don't have to be. Unlike store
bought fruit juices and soft drinks, with smoothies the entire purpose is that
the drinker is in control over exactly what they're consuming.

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nmerouze
The problem is not fruit juices, smoothies or sugar. The problem is that if
you drink calories in addition to meals, you get too much calories and you
will fatten.

I've been drinking fruits, fruit juices and smoothies instead of most other
carbs for a year now and I feel great without being fat. It's just about
calories.

~~~
dmix
Calories and fat have been the go-to for mainstream publications as the cause
of obesity. But I'd highly recommend watching this talk about high-fructose
corn syrup:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM)

It makes a great argument that high-fructose corn syrup might be single
handily the cause of the explosion in obesity in the USA in the last two
decades.

~~~
nmerouze
I know this video and he's wrong (HFCS is bad, simple sugar and fruit fructose
are not). I would recommend you to read articles on
[http://dannyroddy.com](http://dannyroddy.com)
[http://raypeat.com](http://raypeat.com)
[http://andrewkimblog.com](http://andrewkimblog.com) backed by a lot of
studies showing fructose is awesome.

~~~
pothibo
I'm appalled by your lack of judgment.

You dismiss the recording of a university class made by a Ph.D in
Endocrinology that worked for 20+ years against the whole industry (which
shows resilience and belief).

On the other hand you suggest to read articles on 3 websites that looks scammy
at best?

I feel insulted.

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
Stephan Guyenet is a phd and he also kinda poo-poos the whole "sugar and
fructose are toxic" thing. The problem with fructose is just that it's so
yummy to humans that its modern ubiquity causes people to overeat.

~~~
pothibo
Obviously his theory is being challenged and there might be some valid reason
why it is. I'm not an expert in that field.

The guy saying Lustig is "wrong" was just full of it and I called him on that.

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sudomal
It is kind of obvious advice. By drinking juice, you are consuming an
unusually large amount of processed fruit. I hardly touch the stuff. Stick to
water or tea or whatever.

~~~
jonnathanson
It seems obvious, but you'd be amazed how many people don't do the mental
math. I've actually had this conversation while waiting in line with someone
as he got a Jamba Juice.

Friend: "Why aren't you getting one?"

Me: "Too much sugar. I'm trying to eat better these days."

Friend: "What?! This is a smoothie! There's nothing healthier!"

Me: "But you just saw them grind up 8 oranges, 5 bananas, and 2 pounds of
strawberries and put them in a single cup."

Friend: "So?! Fruit is healthy, dumbass!"

Me: "Would you ever eat that much fruit in one sitting?"

I'll stop before it becomes painful. :) But you get the point. People have
strong mental associations between fruit and health, no doubt conditioned by
years and years of advertising, and USDA guidelines, and so on. But they don't
get the whole "too much of a good thing" logic.

That's what makes smoothies particularly dangerous. People know they're not
making a great choice when they drink a Coke. People _firmly believe_ they're
making a great choice when they drink sugary smoothies and fruit juices. And
Jamba Juice, despite being a sugar bomb, at least uses whole fruit. A lot of
the packaged drinks use heavily processed crap with added sugar.

~~~
pyre
> "too much of a good thing" logic.

How many people are having two or three smoothies a day vs. just a single
smoothie? How many of those people would eat the amount of fruit in that
smoothie over the course of a normal day? There might be something to be said
for getting your daily dose of fruit at once instead of spread out over the
day, but I doubt that we're talking about people that are overdosing on fruit.

> sugary smoothies and fruit juices

How is a smoothie _more_ sugary than eating the equivalent amount of fruit? Do
you claim that someone eating a bowl of strawberries is having a sugary snack?

> That's what makes smoothies particularly dangerous

How dangerous are they really? Plenty of people will drink > 2 litres of soda
over the course of a day. On the other hand, do you think that anyone is
drinking more than even a litre of smoothie in a day?

> But you just saw them grind up 8 oranges, 5 bananas, and 2 pounds of
> strawberries and put them in a single cup.

Really? I make smoothies at home, and it's more like: 2 leaves of kale,
protein powder, a banana or two, and a handful (or 2) of frozen strawberries
(and maybe an apple or pear). This makes enough smoothie for 2 adults and a
child. Are you really don't to claim that this isn't something that could be
eaten in a sitting by 2 adults and a child?

~~~
kareemm
Clearly comparing your smoothie to Jamba Juice's fruit bowl is not the same
thing.

~~~
pyre
Well, Jamba Juice also doesn't fit "8 oranges, 5 bananas, and 2 pounds of
strawberries" into a single smoothie either.

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alan_cx
Cant people just eat actual fruit? Is that really so inconvenient these days?
All that energy wasted to process, package, transport, etc. Just eat a damn
fruit.

I'd love to know how much of this pointlessly processed food contributes to
environmental problems compared to cars, for example.

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
This is what I don't get about the soylent thing. You can walk into any drug
store or corner store and buy a few canned foods that together offer complete
nutrition. How the heck is mixing a special powdered drink any easier than
opening a can of oysters and a can of sauerkraut and downing the contents?
There isn't even a glass to wash with the latter.

There is some sort of odd cultural glitch going on in favor of drinks as
"healthful." Drink foods make people think of the medicinal brews of yore? I
don't know.

~~~
vinchuco
> How the heck is mixing a special powdered drink any easier

Surprising as it may sound, making it just a little harder to prepare can make
us value it more (we tend to value our own work). I remember reading about a
case of one batter mix that ended up selling more than the "just add water"
mixes by asking in the instructions to add the eggs and milk.

> a can of oysters and a can of sauerkraut

that sounds like an awful diet

~~~
kps
I believed this until your post prompted me to look it up, but apparently it's
not true:
[http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/cakemix.asp](http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/cakemix.asp)

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
Perhaps this ignores that powdered eggs do in fact taste horrible compared to
fresh. They're also apparently quite bad for you (oxysterols).

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16s
Diabetes too. That's a huge problem in the US. And many people who are
diabetic are not excessively over-weight. Those who are not diabetic, are pre-
diabetic.

"Over 25 million people in the US have diabetes, and close to 80 million are
pre-diabetic." \- From American Diabetes Association

IMO, this problem is way larger than the former cigarette health problem as
more people consume sugary drinks and foods than smoked cigarettes.

~~~
ihsw
Indeed, the scale of the issue extends to the very young. The worst cases of
smoking-related cancer are the result of starting smoking at a very young age,
not unlike how obesity and type 1 diabetes are especially destructive when
encountered at very young ages.

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dodyg
Fruits contain fibers that are beneficial for your digestive system and
control the spike of sugar level in you body. If you put them in a blender,
you destroy much of the fibers and one of the major benefit of eating fruit.

~~~
technel
Blending speeds up digestion and reduces satiety versus eating whole fruit,
but (unlike juicing) I haven't seen any evidence that it _destroys_ fiber. Do
you have a reference?

~~~
pyre

      Apparently the lowered glycemic index for foods
      of a smaller particle size is only for starchy
      foods (smaller particles hydrolyze easier,
      making them higher GI). So while my statement
      may have held true for starches, it wouldn't for
      fruits. I have no idea about smoothies! It's out
      of the scope of the paper, though, so all we can
      say is that the study suggests that juicing
      increases diabetic risk and whole fruits lower
      it.
    

Source:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/veg/comments/1le10o/eating_fruit_cut...](http://www.reddit.com/r/veg/comments/1le10o/eating_fruit_cuts_diabetes_risk_but_juice_raises/cbz2hd3)

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IgorPartola
For those making their own smoothies: I use kefir as a base. It is thicker,
has very little, easily overpowered taste, has the kinds and amounts of
probiotics that yogurt claims but often fails to deliver, and is easier to
digest than milk. I normally add a banana, protein powder, and sometimes
berries (which are lower on calories than an equivalent amount of fruit).
Delicious, and aside from the protein powder, these are all things I would
consume as individual items.

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ChrisNorstrom
DO NOT DRINK FRUIT JUICES / SMOOTHIES without a straw. The acidity from the
fruit will demineralize and erode your teeth.

Here's what happened to my two front teeth.
[http://min.us/lbzsDfIjfJqxOz](http://min.us/lbzsDfIjfJqxOz)

Luckily my two front teeth are large enough to sand and grind past the damaged
bottom portions and look normal again. It happened in just 2 weeks of drinking
fruit juices twice a day.

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s_q_b
We need a social-shift that treats sugary drinks more like we treat alcohol.
I'm not saying let's only sell Coca-Cola to 21-year-olds, but rather that the
social stigma should be different.

A sugary beverage should be a celebratory drink, reserved for special
occasions, like beer or wine, not a staple of our diet.

~~~
xd
I don't see society conforming to your ideals any time soon. Hell, I love
nothing more than celebrating the end of a hard days work with a beer.

IMO people need to worry about sitting down all day way before worrying about
sugary drinks.

~~~
s_q_b
_Hell, I love nothing more than celebrating the end of a hard days work with a
beer._

No disagreement from me. I would simply suggest that people think the same way
about a Coke.

There's nothing wrong with celebrating the end of a day with a beer, but most
people would look askance if you were drinking them all day at your desk. So
why is it considered normal to do the same with a caffeine and sugar
concoction that we _know_ is highly dangerous?

As to the standing desk issue, I think it's most an issue of being sedentary
in general than standing vs. sitting. There's nothing particularly natural
about standing in a single place for hours either.

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joemaller1
Well yeah. The health benefits of fruit are generally oversold anyway. But
this will be met with mockery, "I can't have soda and now fruit* is bad for me
too?! Scientists are dumb."

* this is where they miss the point.

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meerita
Everything will be killing us in the future. Now it's the smoothies and fruit
juices. I don't know what this health-society pretends, if ending all kind of
consuming substances or really wasting time producing FUD. No offense to
anyone.

~~~
ihsw
Yes, however there is a coordinated effort on a global scale to cause people
to be addicted to a substance to the detriment of their health. That is the
key difference.

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JoeAltmaier
Same old risk: drink too much sugary stuff, get fat.

~~~
frooxie
Well, I didn't know that a smoothie was worse than the fruit it's made of.
(Not that I drink smoothies anyway.)

~~~
firasd
The fruit has fiber and a lot of other ingredients that slow down absorption
of sugar. Not to mention, you wouldn't eat as much fruit in one sitting as the
number of fruits you've extracted into a cup.

So you're consuming (1) just the sugary liquid extract of the fruit, and (2)
getting much more of it from more fruits than if you were eating whole pieces
of fruit.

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elchief
Does anyone have evidence that blending and immediately drinking fruit has
less fibre than eating the same amount of fruit unblended?

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Swizec
Make your own smoothies -> super healthy stuff with plenty of energy to get
you through the afternoon slump.

~~~
vixen99
Depending on the fruit you use you can still overdose on fructose which is, as
everyone knows by now, metabolized (interesting story) almost only by the
liver - just like alcohol.

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j_m_b
Better title: Smoothies and fruit juices are THE new risk to health

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mcot2
The problem also seems to be portion size related. On the larger end of the
spectrum some of these smoothies can be over 20 ounces.

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Karunamon
> _All sugars are equal in their bad effects, says Popkin_

Wait, what? I thought that HFCS was significantly worse than everything else.

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Shorel
I was scared of the title.

Thankfully, I make my own smoothies, with no sugar.

