
Apple is the New Microsoft - gherlein
http://www.herlein.com/index.php?entry=entry090811-070238
======
jawngee
I'm pretty sure my karma will take a hit here.

Apple is hardly the new Microsoft. Microsoft's developer relations are bar
none the best for any commercial entity or platform I've ever developed for.
That's not saying their API's or SDK's are well designed, what it is saying is
their developer support simply cannot be beaten.

Now, I've been entirely Apple based for the last three years and - in terms of
hand holding tool chain support - it's a relative ghetto in contrast to what
MS provides.

MS is definitely more open than Apple is, specifically when it comes to the
iPhone, so I'm not sure how Apple is the new Microsoft in the slightest sense.
Now, I don't mean open in terms of open source and all that, but I mean open
in terms of what, when, where you develop and deploy.

In many ways, I wish they were the new Microsoft. That would mean that iPhone
is an open landscape with API's that aren't encumbered with a "father knows
best" mentality, which, as a developer, is frightening if it's a picture of
what's to come. Can you imagine a future where Apple dictates what you install
on your laptop or desktop? Why is the iPhone/iPod Touch any different? Because
it has a GSM chip?

The problem is that if consumers accept this scenario, which they've readily
done with the App Store, then the next logical conclusion is that the next
device from Cupertino that isn't a laptop or desktop will come with the same
closed, crippled, handicapped (from a developer's perspective) ecosystem. Then
the next iteration after that will move it closer to the reality that your
desktop will be locked down in the same fashion.

No, Apple is not the next Microsoft. They've become their own brand of
monster.

~~~
potatolicious
Gotta give you some solidarity here even though it's the unpopular opinion. As
someone who's been Mac-centric for the past few years I have to say: anyone
who claims that Apple supports devs as well as MS is on something.

Apple's documentation cannot begin to hold a candle to MSDN, their direct
developer support even worse. Developing on MS platforms is a joy - it's
straightforward with copious amounts of documentation provided directly by
Microsoft.

Developing on iPhone/OSX is a pain. Much of the "documentation" resembles a
Obj-C header file, important details hide in gigantic tomes of text with zero
sample code to bring it out. Unexpected/weird behavior is rarely documented...
the whole thing is a gigantic labyrinth that breeds tribal knowledge instead
of documentation.

Ugh.

~~~
sofal
My experience with MSDN is one of the biggest reasons why I avoid Microsoft
tools. Now you're telling me that Apple's documentation is much worse, and
that depresses me.

~~~
potatolicious
The problem with straight-up documentation is that much of it is unreadable
technobabble that makes no sense until you, say, throw in a diagram or a chunk
of sample code. Then you go "oohhhhhh" and are enlightened.

Apple's documentation is "complete" insofar as all the major bits are _written
down somewhere_ , but it's very opaque and hard to read. Their ridiculous lack
of diagrams, visualizations, and sample code also makes your life much more
difficult than it must be.

In fact, I do not think there's ANY sample code anywhere that isn't a "sample
project". As in, when Apple does decide to grace your presence with sample
code, it's a large, integrated _thing_ that really doesn't help you learn a
specific API or component.

------
mcantor
Honestly, I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs. "The iPhone has
taken the world by storm." We know. "The Apple AppStore is not an ecosystem
and it's not a new market where companies can participate freely." We know.
"So why do I think Apple has created the modern equivalent of the La Brea Tar
Pits?" Let me guess... because of the App store gatekeeping? "So Apple
controls the gateway to even offer an application to the market." Bingo!

I'm not trying to be condescending, but these points have been beaten to death
on HN already, right down to barking "Just open the iPhone for third-party
developers and allow other application stores," which, while it gives me warm
fuzzies, is just clearly not something Apple is willing to do without serious
forethought. Why not add something novel to the debate?

~~~
angstrom
Apple is the new Apple. This is the way Apple has always been. Apple is the
original closed box consumer platform. It's part of the company's DNA, if
there is such a thing. The only difference is that now they also control the
distribution channel, not just the hardware/OS.

~~~
ajross
I think that's stretching the point. The Apple II was certainly not closed.
Literally the whole design of the thing was cleanly documented, right down the
IC selection and the (hand assembled!) firmware. The original Mac was likewise
an open book (albeit one without an expansion bus). Take a look at the first
edition of Inside Macintosh. Even modern macs aren't "closed" in any
meaningful sense. You can develop and deploy software for them using most or
all of the tools Apple has internally.

And in any case, it's not the "closedness" that people are complaining about
with regard to the iPhone; that's just the practical tool Apple is using. The
complaint is about Apple's attempts to use dominance in one sector
(smartphones in this case, though I think a similar argument can be made about
media players and iTunes) as leverage against competitors or to favor its own
products, or those of its allies.

And it is _that_ behavior that seems very Microsoft-like to those of us who
remember the 90's.

~~~
omouse
_I think that's stretching the point. The Apple II was certainly not closed._

How many decades ago was that??

------
dtf
Forbes, 2005: Is Apple the new Microsoft?

<http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/04/cx_ld_0304aapl.html>

SitePoint, 2006: If I had my doubts before, I stand corrected: Apple is the
new Microsoft.

[http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/01/17/apple-
photocasting...](http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/01/17/apple-photocasting-
mac-only-uses-invalid-rss/)

Macworld, 2007: It's official: Apple is the new Microsoft.

<http://www.macworld.com/article/59914/2007/09/newms.html>

So is it a seasonal thing? Like brown becoming the new black in Autumn?

~~~
CamperBob
It doesn't even make any sense. Microsoft doesn't care what applications I run
on Windows, sometimes to a fault.

~~~
berntb
Microsoft doesn't care? They remove the oxygen supply of some competitors...

~~~
CamperBob
Welcome to 1992...

~~~
berntb
That was a reference to a quote regarding Netscape. Not 1992.

But maybe the US and EU monopoly courts are complete idiots...

------
jasongullickson
_"First of all, to be an ecosystem there has to be an open marketplace."_

I know we're speaking in analogies, but Wikipedia defines ecosystem as:

 _"An ecosystem is a unit of interdependent organisms which share the same
habitat."_

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecosystem>

...I fail to see what disqualifies the App Store as an ecosystem, analogy-
wise.

I've had enough self-described "rebels" (in this case, _"heretic"_ ) who think
they are going out on a limb criticizing Apple and making broad statements
such as "Apple is the new 'X'". The author doesn't appear to know much about
how Microsoft operates or how it attained it's current (perilous) position,
otherwise the flaws of this comparison would have been obvious during the
first edit.

 _"...comparisons are odious, Smith."_

Has Apple done some questionable, uncharacteristic things lately? Sure. Does
it make life difficult for Developers? You bet. Is this something they've
never done before? Absolutely not.

So instead of trying to draw attention to yourself by invoking dramatic
characterizations (I once heard someone say that anytime someone compares
something to Hitler in an argument, they automatically lose) how about
"sticking it to the man" by building something better yourself. If you're
right, maybe someday someone like you will come along and write a rambling
diatribe about your creation (and then you'll know you've really made it).

------
thunk
"Is the new" is the new "fucking annoying".

~~~
mrlebowski
if flagging a post like a down vote ? I don't feel that the 'community' based
filtering of news is working too well here..

------
Semiapies
But I thought _Google_ was the new Microsoft?

How many New Microsofts can we have? :)

------
c64forever
Every article I've seen on this topic (and there have been many) confounds
what it means by "the new Microsoft." Most use the term to mean "plays
hardball and engages in appalling practices that alienate certain groups of
people," which, while arguably true, are not against the law. The discussion
then gets defined by a group of folks pointing out the problems with this
behavior, opposed by libertarians who claim that they should be allowed to do
whatever they like. In turn, this leads to an uninformed, boring discussion:
I'm not interested in discussing what other people believe Apple "should" do
from an ethical/moral perspective -- Apple clearly knows its own interests
better than any johnny-come-lately blogger, and they have decided that
screwing around with their developers is good for their bottom line.

The proper point to focus on is a simple one: is Apple using its monopoly
power in one application area (e.g. the App Store), to gain a monopoly in
another (e.g. voice applications)? For to do so _is_ illegal. Our lawmakers
have already pondered this issue and deemed it unacceptable. They have stated
the illegal behavior precisely. A proper DA should have no difficulty
prosecuting this behavior.

P.S. I also don't understand the level of whining among the iphone devs. The
Android is an open platform, move over already - you can't choose to be
punished and then whine about it.

------
Periodic
[I did a quick search, didn't see anyone mention games yet, so I thought I
should]

People bitch and moan about this, but the fact is that for a lot of developers
this won't be an issue. Why? Because the game market for the iPhone is HUGE
and you can bet there will almost never be an issue with duplicate
functionality or explicit content because a game can incidentally download the
Karma Sutra.

Games account for about half of the top selling apps (12/25 last I checked),
and some games are getting so many downloads they are getting installed on
almost a third of all devices (Tap-tap revolution got to 30%).

The game market is huge and will continue to thrive. The video game industry
is entirely accustomed to this! It's just another console to them, albeit one
with LESS restrictive rules. No price restrictions, no strict content or style
guidelines, and no content requirements. Apple is hands-off compared to Sony
and Nintendo.

------
mrlebowski
HN is the new tabloid. :(

------
saurabh
From The Dark Knight:

Harvey Dent: You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself
become the villain

------
tybris
Why? (Article doesn't seem to clarify the title)

~~~
cesare
Because this is what his colleague and friend says.

~~~
TallGuyShort
And because it gets him traffic when he posts it on HN

------
sammcd
I feel like Microsoft has gone through many stages as a company throughout
time. Any software company could be matched to be _just like microsoft_ at
some point in microsoft's timeline. Same with google...

------
TweedHeads
Hahaha, what a joke.

This is what happens when you let propaganda factories take over news outlets.

~~~
agotterer
hah. Apple can be the new Microsoft when they have as much cash as them. Apple
is a strong company, but they have a while to go...

~~~
joechung
Apple was comparable to Microsoft in "on hand" cash in 2008 -
[http://venturebeat.com/2008/10/23/microsoft-closes-the-
quart...](http://venturebeat.com/2008/10/23/microsoft-closes-the-quarter-with-
less-cash-than-apple/)

