
You Can See the Milky Way - njx
http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com/
======
djb_hackernews
I can relate to this.

I somehow got in to hiking and camping sometime after college. While my family
traveled a good amount, it was never to hike or camp or to remote areas.

On my first camping trip in the White Mountains in NH on the 3rd or 4th night
I looked up and saw the Milky Way. I was blown away. At this point in my life
I was an adult, with responsibilities, a healthy interest in science, and I
never really put much thought in to it and I guess figured that whenever I saw
starry night pictures that included the Milky Way that it was through a
telescope, or an artists rendition, or something. Definitely not that you
could actually see the Milky Way with your own eyes. To be honest it's insane.
If you haven't seen the Milky Way with your own eyes, go.

~~~
seszett
I don't want to be too much of a killjoy, but I never understood what was all
that fuss about stars.

Maybe that's because I've had the reverse experience: I grew up in a place
seeing a large amount of stars, where seeing the Milky Way was just expected,
and then I moved to larger cities where you can barely see the brightest
stars.

Well, even though it sure is _nice_ to see the stars when I happen to be in a
darker place, I never really missed them at any point. They're a nice feature
of the environment, but not something really critical, just like the bird
chirps. They're nice to hear on the morning, but you barely notice when they
aren't there. When I'm in a city I'm more concerned about the wasted energy
revealed by light pollution, and the annoying sound of roaring cars at most
hours.

~~~
HCIdivision17
I had a nearly identical "so what" thought when I went to college. I had just
settled into my dorm when one of my roommates called us over to ogle some
freshmen girls in short shorts somewhere walking by. They were preoccupied
about it, but I had grown up in Florida near the gulf. I was honestly
surprised by their interest: I had never met these young ladies and thus they
were just unremarkable background people. But these guys acted like they had
found an oasis in a desert. Sure they were pretty, but most girls were, right?
I was informed that my opinion was incorrect and confusingly out of touch with
reality.

In contrast, I once went to the Hayden planetarium and saw the galaxy for the
first time. If I'm honest, I may be willing to admit I teared up more than a
little. The experience utterly awestruck me, and that was merely a simulation.
Bad eyesight combined with poor night vision and light pollution means I had
never seen the Milky Way.

Hell, the first time I got glasses in second grade was the first time I could
make out _leaves_ on a tree! Up to that point, they were just this thing I
knew was there, but I had never seen one rustling in the wind. Just some shape
blobbing about. To this day, I can be content to just sit outside and watch
trees sway in the wind for an hour. It honestly is just the most peaceful
thing to see such detail moving all at once. A lot of people just don't
understand it, as trees are about as ordinary as you can get; but to me, I
remember how they used to look (and can just remove my glasses). They're
_rich_ in beauty.

TL;DR: If you lived without it, you'd be amazed how much you'll appreciate it.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
That's fantastic and in some ways awful - why did it take so long to get you
glasses? And I shall listen to a tree in the wind on tonight's dog walk just
to remember

Cheers

~~~
HCIdivision17
That's a good question, and the answer is pretty benign: I didn't know I had
bad eyesight.

See, to me, it was perfectly normal to need to sit at the front of the class
or to have to hunch over the paper I was learning cursive on; I remember being
a bit frustrated that I couldn't understand the lessons if I wasn't close, but
I was still young enough that it didn't occur to me my eyes were defective.
Squinting was just how you made things clearer after all. At that age I sorta
just accepted the world for the way it was. So in second grade, my teacher
told my parents I may need glasses, and a while after I got some and learned
just how near-sighted I was. (I'm currently about a -7 diopter.)

I've come across a few other people who had a similar experience. From what
I've gathered, it seems that first and second grade teachers become attuned to
kids that need glasses. As for why I didn't know earlier, I think it's just
that I was a fairly introverted kid, so I didn't do a lot of sports or group
play. And the only real detail oriented stuff I did was reading, and I could
almost literally bury my face in that. It looked like intent reading (and it
likely was), but I suspect that was just a matter of holding the book close
enough. It's easy to overlook the clues, but straightforward if you're
specifically trying to notice 'em.

------
scrumper
It's worth pointing out that light pollution doesn't mean you can't enjoy the
stars. After 20 years living in cities and forgetting much of the sky I loved
as a country child, I moved from the heart of Manhattan - a 'white' area in
this map
([http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html](http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html))
- to a suburb half an hour away which is colored red.

In the city, I could see Jupiter clearly, and three moons through an ordinary
pair of 12x36 binoculars from my 19th floor apartment window. With a very
tired $40 yard sale 4" Newtonian refractor I could see bands on the planet on
a winter's night. With the naked eye, the Summer Triangle, Capella, Sirius,
and a few other very bright stars. None of it all that impressive from a quick
glance upwards, but still stuff there to study with conscious effort.

Out in my new back yard, the view is breathtaking by comparison. On a very
clear night with dark-adapted eyes there is just the hint of the Milky Way. On
a normal night, the Pleiades are clear. The Andromeda galaxy is lovely through
binoculars. But the real treat is the constellations - gorgeous and vivid,
separated, teachable to my children.

I've been up Mauna Kea and nothing on earth can compare to that, but as an
everyday treat, a bit of mythological theatre wheeling in the sky on a dark
night, or even an evening's worth of nebula hunting, I'm blown away by my
heavily light polluted back garden.

~~~
cgriswald
The light pollution map isn't very good and it doesn't give the full picture.
We do astroimaging in the middle of a very bright area, but we are on a hill.
A little elevation goes a long way. It also helps that our scopes are in an
enclosure which blocks lights from the sides. We can occassionally see the
Milky Way on clearer nights.

At my new house on a hill, you can see a huge difference being on the deck
versus being down (about 50 feet) in the back yard.

People who are really interested in doing some viewing should check out local
astronomy organizations. They will host star parties and will know the best
places locally to do observations.

~~~
scrumper
50' is 10 floors - quite a deck you have :) Is it better because you're above
streetlights?

Agreed re: screening: biggest help for me is shutting off house lights and
getting to a part of the garden that's shaded from neighbors.

~~~
oh_sigh
5 feet per floor?

~~~
scrumper
Yesterday I added 3 to 9 and got 11. Not my week. 5 floors. Not even going to
edit it, as punishment to myself.

------
ChrisGranger
Living in the city, light pollution drives me a little bit crazy. I don't
understand why so many people seem to be OK with _losing our ability to see
the stars_... It also implies squandered electricity (and money).

~~~
rprospero
> I don't understand why so many people seem to be OK with losing our ability
> to see the stars

Honest question: why shouldn't they be okay with it?

I was a Boy Scout and I saw the stars at night during camp outs. I've seen the
night's sky from the middle of the New Mexico desert. It was very pretty, but
I've seen it.

It's not that I don't have a sense of wonder. Heck, I'm a post-doctoral
researcher in physics and I've been trying to teach myself cosmology as a
hobby. Yet, from my perspective, being able to see the stars every night like
being able to see Niagara Falls every night. It's something that you should
certainly do once and I don't begrudge those who want it part of their daily
life, but I don't think that it needs to be the default option.

You seem to disagree, so I'm wondering what it is that I'm missing.

~~~
cgriswald
Well, seeing the stars everywhere at night is the default and our activities
are preventing it. So I don't think it's quite the same as seeing Niagara
Falls. Light pollution is a solved problem and solving it has other potential
benefits (like better sleep at night).

But no one cares. Why don't they care? I don't know. For me, the inability to
see the stars at night is like not being able to see the sun during the day.
It's like every night is cloudy.

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dustingetz
This link just clickjacked my facebook and posted to my feed as me. Flagged.

~~~
tommyd
It didn't post to my feed but did "like" the page without asking me. Not on.

~~~
moogleii
Auto posted and liked for me. Flagging as well.

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hhm
Are the color pictures over exposed? I have seen the Milky Way lots of times
(and quite clearly), but it always looked more like an almost gray cloud...
I've never seen the kind of bright colors that are usually shown on pictures.

~~~
maxxxxx
These pictures usually get taken at 15-30 secs with a very fast lens (f2.8)
and an ISO of 1600-6400. You need a pretty dark sky or a lot of post
processing. Within 50-100 miles of the background is just brown.

If you have a camera with manual control, give it a try. You need a wide angle
lens, otherwise you'll get star trails quickly.

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BrandonMarc
I'm confused by this part.

 _The summer Milky Way will look brighter._

If the author is referring to the galactic center being in view, then wouldn't
that depend on whether it's summer in the northern hemisphere, or the southern
hemisphere? After all, each hemisphere's summer is looking the opposite
direction.

If the author is simply referring to the season, well I'd think the winter -
having longer nights, colder atmosphere, and, at some latitudes, having nights
_period_ \- would lead to darker skies and better viewing.

Can any one enlighten me?

~~~
stargazer-3
If you check their how-to-see-the-milky-way section, they give a timetable of
what they mean by summer and winter in the two hemispheres.

------
flaie
Another nice site showing light pollution is
[http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/](http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/)

The data hasn't been updated since 2006 but the change should not be that much
different. I've contacted the author in the past, for some technical
explanation:

    
    
        The NOAA data is the light source data. It uses the light source data as input to a model of light propagation in the atmosphere to estimate the light pollution. 
        This takes into account that the light pollution from a town or city (or natural gas field!) can affect the level of light pollution at locations far removed from the light source. 
        Technically, my light pollution atlas is the amount of artificial sky brightness at zenith.
    

The site features also an overlay on Google Maps which shows the light
pollution. It's a nice tool to find night photo spots. The one I've been using
for some time with great results:
[http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html](http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html)

------
sp332
Here's a series of images Thierry Cohen made showing the view of the sky from
various cities if they had no light pollution.
[http://architizer.com/blog/lights-out-what-if-cities-
swapped...](http://architizer.com/blog/lights-out-what-if-cities-swapped-
electric-lighting-for-star-studded-skies/)

~~~
robertfw
What I don't like with these shots is that they show an unrealistic picture of
what the milky way would look like - the human eye can't detect colour like
that. They are beautiful shots but if your intention is to show what it's like
if the lights were out, its misleading.

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josu
I thought this was common knowledge. It makes me a bit sad to think that this
is not common knowledge.

~~~
cscharenberg
And actually, wouldn't nearly _everything_ you see be the Milky Way galaxy?
That's not the point of the site, but struck me just now. I had the same
experience you did, while backpacking in New Mexico. The sky was outrageous -
I had never seen the whole of the structure.

~~~
ChrisGranger
Yes, pretty much everything visible to the naked eye is going to be the Milky
Way. There are a few deep sky objects like the Andromeda Galaxy that you can
see from a reasonably dark site though, if your eyesight is good and you know
right where to look. (It's pretty easy to find with binoculars but with the
naked eye it will just be a small, faint, diffuse glow that doesn't look
particularly interesting, assuming you can see it at all.)

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MiguelVieira
And if you go to the southern hemisphere, you can see two other galaxies: the
Large and Small Magellanic Clouds.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magellanic_Clouds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magellanic_Clouds)

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schoen
This is a great idea.

Where the text discusses the origin of the term "Milky Way", I wish they would
give the Greek name γαλαξίας κύκλος (at least in transliteration) rather than
only giving the _translation_ 'milky circle'. (The text does give the original
Latin "via lactea").

I remember when the term γαλαξία was referenced in an amazing conlang puzzle
which led to a series of events culminating in my awareness that γαλαξίας is
ancient Greek for 'galaxy' (sort of), whereas γαλαξία is ancient Greek for
'milkshake' (sort of).

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benjamincburns
The server error on this page is a great example of how to build negative
brand recognition. Hint to hosting companies: your error pages aren't a good
place from which to link to your sign up page.

------
mladenkovacevic
Just came back from a remote location in Cuba. Go out on a clear night, look
at the sky for about 2-5 minutes to get your eyes adjusted, and enjoy the
density of the milky way before you.

~~~
robertfw
One thing I learned while getting into astronomy is that full dark adaptation
can take up to 25 minutes. Some will use an eye patch to keep their observing
eye dark adapted (this may also be the reason that we associate pirates with
an eye patch, to facilitate seeing above and below deck)

~~~
mladenkovacevic
I should say I did spend even more than 25 minutes per session just staring at
the sky from one of the beach chairs.

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gjkood
If you live in the Bay Area (South or East Bay), an easy to reach Dark Sky
location is Henry Coe State Park near Gilroy. Doing an overnight camping there
is incredible. You can spent all night gazing at the Milky Way. It was really
amazing seeing the Milky Way again since my younger days. Try to choose a
night that is close to a new/no moon night.

You can look up CA dark sky sites here:
[http://www.observingsites.com/ds_ca.htm](http://www.observingsites.com/ds_ca.htm)

~~~
RogerL
A tiny bit south in San Juan Batista is Fremont Peak Observatory. Come and
meet some sky geeks, and look through their telescopes!

[http://www.fpoa.net/tips.html](http://www.fpoa.net/tips.html)

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Roboprog
For those of you in the Bay Area that want to come out to the sticks a little
bit, SVAS (Sacramento Valley Astronomical Society) has a pretty nice observing
site in the Sierras. (check web site, contact somebody to get in as a guest)
Midnight in August provides a very nice view of the Milky Way.

Andromeda looks pretty good (bright) through some of the large scopes that
people bring up there, as well. (magnification is fairly trivial, you need a
large telescope to get brightness)

~~~
maxxxxx
Andromeda is actually larger than the full moon, but very faint.

------
z5h
I would argue that the majority of what anyone ever sees, including this text
on your screen, is the Milky Way Galaxy.

In any case, anyone affected by
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003)
got to see a lot more of the Milky Way. I have never seen it more clearly than
during the blackout.

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jug6ernaut
Looking at the light pollution map [1]. There is a band of light between San
Antonio and Corpus Christi that does not follow the cities/roads where you
would except to see light.

Anyone know what this band represents?

[1] [http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com/light-
pollution/](http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com/light-pollution/)

~~~
cjeane
That would be oil drilling and exploration operations. You can see similar
lights in North Dakota.

~~~
jug6ernaut
Ah yes you are right. I had figured this was the case but was not sure. You
can look at this map of the Eagle Ford Shale and it matches up almost
perfectly.

[http://shalenow.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/03/eagle_ford_ma...](http://shalenow.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/03/eagle_ford_map.jpg)

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bjz_
As a suggestion to the authors: don't center the map on the US by default. It
alienates your international audience.

------
thieving_magpie
I've always wondered this but have never had it answered. If we're in the
Milky Way, isn't it safe to assume that 95% of the stars we can easily see are
part of the Milky Way.

Basically, how can you NOT see the Milky Way, assuming you don't have some
sort of ridiculous light pollution blocking all visibility?

~~~
semaphoreP
It's easy to see a few nearby bright stars, but it's hard to see all those dim
stars that make up the distinctive structure of the Milky Way.

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nogridbag
I'm confused how exactly the dates were chosen in the section "Where can i see
the Milky Way Galaxy from Earth?" They don't appear correlated to the moon
phases calendar.

~~~
maxerickson
I think they are chosen so that the 'best viewing' lands on an hour. Then you
also have to account for the moon.

------
ynniv
[http://darksitefinder.com/maps/north-
america.html](http://darksitefinder.com/maps/north-america.html) is a better
dark sky map

------
b0b0b0b
Dear lazyhackernews,

What would the night sky look like with the milky way subtracted out?

Thanks in advance!

~~~
semaphoreP
If you mean subtracting out all the stars in our entire galaxy, then the night
sky would get a lot dimmer. We'd only see the starlight from distant galaxies
and the planets of our own solar system. If you mean just the streak across
the sky that is the densest part of our galaxy, then there'd just be fainter
and more distant stars in our galaxy to take its place. Regardless, it's very
hard to know for sure because we reside in the Milky Way and can't see past
it.

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m0skit0
Can't even see the link, how can I see the whole galaxy?

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astrobe_
Disappointing. Was expecting a view from outside of the galactic plane.

~~~
astrobe_
PS: Wow take it easy, buddies. I thought it could spark some interesting
discussions... Like, how accurate is our representation of the Milky Way.

~~~
robertfw
We're still not sure on the number of arms!

Would be nice if we could find some kind of galactic sized mirror

------
tempodox
How much more trivial can a domain name get? youcaneatyourfoot.com

Besides, it seems the servergator ate the site.

