
The Immigration-Obsessed, Polarized, Garbage-Fire Election of 1800 - DiabloD3
https://longreads.com/2017/03/28/the-immigration-obsessed-polarized-garbage-fire-election-of-1800/
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FailMore
Sorry to be a lazy HN member but that article is HUGE! Does anyone have a TLDR
/ are there any insights of note that are worth discussing / learning? No
problem if no one can be bothered to answer!

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bobwaycott
Well, it is longreads.com.

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sologoub
I find this subtitle, trying to draw the parallel with the current election,
quite distasteful: "A madman versus a crook? Unexpected twists? Fake news?
Welcome to the election of 1800."

These were the very people that fought for our freedoms and independence.
Neither party in the current election has even an iota of such an
accomplishment. Even the purported civil nature of private communications
between the two is at a level of cordiality not seen these days.

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maxpupmax
It sounds like you're making the mistake of looking at the 1800 election
through our modern lens. At the time, there was no promise that the U.S. would
succeed to the degree it has today. The "founding fathers" were not deified
quite to the degree we hold them in our culture (assuming you're in the US).

As such, the subtitle isn't a literally calling Jefferson and Adams a madman
and a crook. If that was the case, then yes I agree it would be distasteful
and a difficult argument. Of course there are major differences. It's pointing
out that someone at the turn of that century might have experienced something
similar to what we saw this past year and that maybe we could learn something
from knowing that.

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sologoub
Their contemporaries were certainly able to call them such and worse. However,
I do not see that we can compare these figures to Clinton and Trump. Neither
has the accomplishments or the potential for accomplishments that could
compare.

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maxpupmax
Yeah, it sounds like we're talking past eachother a bit then. I agree that you
can't compare the four figures. That is not what the author is attempting to
do, however.

The argument isn't that IF there are similarities between political rhetoric
now and in 1800 THEN you may make a comparison between historical figures.
It's that IF there are similarities between political rhetoric now and in 1800
THEN similar political problems may have existed in the year 1800 that we are
facing today. The author is highlighting his premise, not making a character
comparison.

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sologoub
Not sure how that precludes me from finding the comparison to be offensive. In
the end, that is a personal view and an emotional reaction at that.

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maxpupmax
I agree. It is an offensive comparison, and being offended is a personal view.

Misunderstanding what the author wrote is not a personal view or opinion, it's
just ignoring the facts. Ironically, that "facts as a personal view" argument
was heavily used by both candidates in the 2017 election which you have
decried.

That is what I was addressing with my previous comments. Sorry if you thought
I was challenging your personal/political/emotional views in some way. I think
you are correct, you're just using poor argumentation.

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M_Grey
...Of course a revolutionary war had just been won, and civil war would later
be fought, so maybe this isn't terribly comforting.

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brudgers
The time of the incident was a generation on from the American revolution and
the war that was brewing over the issues of citizenship and British naval
practice was the War of 1812. The US Civil War was predicated on internal
'international relations' between states and the citizenship of native born
persons and the conundrum of the 3/5ths clause in the US constitution and the
political power it provided agricultural interests.

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M_Grey
I'm not claiming a causal relationship, I'm pointing out just how fresh and
unstable the country was, by bracketing the period in question.

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ckarmann
What is interesting is that a bit more than a decade later, the US entered the
"Era of Good Feelings" where bitter partisanship went down and people worked
mostly together for the common good, at least on surface. Let's just hope it
happens again.

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hprotagonist
and then we killed a whole pile of cherokee. good times.

