
Amazon raised Prime Day prices, misleading consumers, says vendor - buckbova
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/07/24/amazon-jacked-up-prime-day-prices-misleading-consumers-says-vendor.html
======
SwellJoe
I've become more and more disillusioned by Amazon over the years. Prices are
now almost never the best; I only buy from them when I need something quickly
(and can't get it locally). NewEgg (nearly) always has better tech prices.
Walmart often has better prices on everyday items and I can have it
immediately. I just bought a pair of tweezers at my local grocery store for
two bucks that was $6 on Amazon for the same make/model; sure, it's a terrible
item to sell online because it's tiny and cheap and shipping it with prime
shipping probably costs as much as the item itself, but I thought they'd
solved that problem with "add on" items.

I mean, Amazon is still a very good customer experience, but when I'm buying
something big I always comparison shop now. As recently as a couple years ago,
I would just buy it. No thought to whether it might be cheaper elsewhere. The
convenience of Prime, plus the reasonable confidence that the price would be
competitive with everybody else, was enough to where I didn't bother
comparison shopping.

Obviously, Amazon isn't hurting. But, I can't help but think that having more
of their longtime customers starting to comparison shop is a bad thing.

~~~
illegal_in_ca
Interesting. I also find myself picking up tech from NewEgg more often than
Amazon. And I recently ordered most of the supplies for a cocktail party I was
having at Walmart and Bed Bad and Beyond.

Amazon prices might beat local retail, but they are only sometimes competitive
with other (often more specizlized) online retailers at this point.

Also, at least for me, shipping New Egg, Walmart and BBAB was faster than
Amazon. I don't have Prime however.

~~~
untog
The issue I have with NewEgg is returns. There's always some condition, or
expensive fee for return shipping. By comparison, Amazon makes it very easy

~~~
agwa
The flip side to Amazon's easy returns is that I regularly receive
used/returned merchandise from Amazon that was advertised as new.

~~~
thirdsun
If the product clearly appears to be used I'd say that's a problem with
Amazon's quality control for returns (though I never experienced those
problems). However what do you think happens to returned items? You don't
expect them to be thrown out, do you?

Maybe I'm way off, but I was always under the impression that those returned
items are re-packaged (if necessary) and sold as new.

And I think that's fine since I really don't see any other way to handle it.
Think about europe, where every shop has to offer a free 14 day return policy,
regardless of if you're Amazon or a small Shopify seller.

If the item can't be sold as new, that means the customer overstepped and
should be held accountable.

~~~
Stratoscope
Of course there is another way for retailers to re-sell customer returns. They
can list them with labels such as "Used - Like New" or "Open Box" or whatever
applies.

For example, go into any Best Buy and ask them where the open box deals are,
or look on their website.

Or go to a Fry's Electronics store. They put returned items on the shelf with
new ones, but there is a special label on the package noting this and
generally offering a small discount.

Lenovo has a factory outlet separate from their main website where they sell
customer returns. Unopened returns may be listed as new; opened returns are
listed as used or refurbished.

Amazon lists returned products under "Amazon Warehouse Deals" in the New and
Used section of a product listing, with the product condition noted in the
description.

For most product categories, Amazon prohibits a returned item from being
resold as "New":

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161242)

> _New:_ Just like it sounds. A brand-new, unused, unopened item in its
> original packaging, with all original packaging materials included. Original
> protective wrapping, if any, is intact. Original manufacturer's warranty, if
> any, still applies, with warranty details included in the listing comments.

There are some different policies in certain product categories; the page
above lists them.

Of course, _third-party_ sellers on Amazon may well re-sell customer returns
as "new". But if they don't comply with the rules on this page, they are
violating their seller agreement.

------
sokoloff
There were real deals on Amazon hardware devices (Echo, Fire, etc). Most
everything else was "meh".

camelcamelcamel.com is your friend to research how good of a deal it really
is. (no affiliation, just a happy user)

~~~
enobrev
I second the recommendation for 3camels, and not just for Prime Day. I bought
quite a bit on Prime Day - all of which I'd had in my cart / wish list for
months and all of which were well below their actual price (per 3camels).

I also saw quite a few products that were well above their normal prices,
while showing as "80% off" because the prices were raised a week before. I
didn't see anything that drastic from Sold-By-Amazon products. They were
generally 3rd-party vendors.

~~~
gmac
camelcamelcamel is indeed a great resource. Also, you can set up a Workflow
workflow on iOS to get a quick price history via the 'share' button from
within the Amazon app.

~~~
jvzr
Great idea! Do you happen to have a Workflow to share? I'm heavily interested
in getting this.

~~~
gmac
[https://workflow.is/workflows/e194d7fdef0343649b6d037293b18c...](https://workflow.is/workflows/e194d7fdef0343649b6d037293b18c09)

(There was a bug for a while where you had to insert an alert before opening
the web page to make it work, but it seems to have been fixed recently so I've
taken this out).

~~~
jvzr
Thank for you for following this back!

------
jchw
Not only is this not new for traditional vendors, it's not even new for the
internet. Scummy sellers on Steam do the same thing right before sales every
single year. Oh well. At least some quite nice Anker stuff was actually on
sale. You can never have enough USB chargers these days.

Just like in the case of Steam, I'm more apt to believe it's sellers that are
doing this than Amazon. While both stand to benefit, sellers stand to benefit
much more overall.

Although it's never going to be perfectly accurate, I recommend anyone who
shops Amazon for expensive stuff use a price tracking service, like
CamelCamelCamel, to see exactly how good a deal on Amazon really is. Again,
not perfect, but at least you can then get some context for what the price is
currently showing up as.

~~~
anilshanbhag
Their prices are not the lowest, just experienced this recently. Here is a
bike i wanted to buy

[https://www.amazon.com/GMC-Denali-Large-63-5cm-
Frame/dp/B00F...](https://www.amazon.com/GMC-Denali-Large-63-5cm-
Frame/dp/B00FNVBS5C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500950302&sr=8-1&keywords=Denali%2Bbike&th=1)
($220)

Ended up buying on walmart ($170) [https://www.walmart.com/ip/25-700c-GMC-
Denali-Men-s-Bike-Whi...](https://www.walmart.com/ip/25-700c-GMC-Denali-Men-s-
Bike-White-Red/51838812)

So much for paying $99 to get prime. I have noticed of late that lot of items
are cheaper on Walmart and they offer free 2 day shipping.

~~~
PascLeRasc
Off-topic, but that's a truly terrible bike. I know a few people who've gotten
it or similar GMC's as "the first result on Amazon for road bike" and they've
all had problems with chains breaking or very poor fit of components. I'd
recommend [http://www.bikesdirect.com/](http://www.bikesdirect.com/) for cheap
bikes online if you're comfortable with assembly and tuning.

~~~
adrianpike
Another happy bikesdirect customer here - a bunch of coworkers over the years
have gone that route and been pleased as well. They're cheap, but definitely
usable, safe, and a good value.

------
taurath
It's clear to any layperson willing to do research that they did so - I looked
up several items on a few price history websites, and found that while they
did have lower than normal prices, it was more like a 4% discount off the
bottom instead of the 40% they claimed. The Yeti microphones seemed to be the
absolute worst - they have never ever been $150, more like $90, and they were
on sale for $85 or so.

~~~
teach
Although your larger point may be right you're incorrect about the Yeti
microphones. They are _usually_ $129.

[https://camelcamelcamel.com/Blue-Yeti-USB-Microphone-
Silver/...](https://camelcamelcamel.com/Blue-Yeti-USB-Microphone-
Silver/product/B002VA464S)

I bought one on sale for $100 last summer, and according to CamelCamelCamel,
it was a good deal at the time.

~~~
taurath
It looks like the average price from 2011-2013 was at around $100 - maybe
they've improved the model, but it seems like they've pegged it at $130 in
mid-2014 but it appears it still regularly dips below $100. Add in 3rd party,
it USED to be $100, but is now $129.

------
cavisne
Wirecutter found an improvement over last year (0.54% of deals good value vs
0.008%).

[https://twitter.com/wirecutter/status/884900863218769920](https://twitter.com/wirecutter/status/884900863218769920)

Will have to wait for their full write up but there genuinely were a lot of
quality items for the lowest price ever.

~~~
mtgx
0.008%? Wow. I almost wonder if they went through the legal department and
asked them "how small can we make our discounts before it becomes illegal to
claim they are discounts?" Apparently, _that_ small.

------
snarfy
"Order within the next 5 hours and receive free next day shipping".

Hmm. OK. _click_

"Please review your order. $8.99 for next day shipping or free two day
shipping."

Uh, OK. 'Check two day shipping. Submit'

"Your order has been placed. Delivery date - 5 days from now"

~~~
ben174
This happens so often to me. I'll be expecting a package one day and 8pm rolls
around and I check the order status and it says 'expected delivery: tomorrow'
\- when I was _sure_ the delivery was today at the time I placed the order.

It makes me feel like I'm going crazy, but I'm sure there's some sort of bug
during the checkout process which switches me back to two-day shipping after
I've selected one-day.

~~~
acuozzo
> I'll be expecting a package one day and 8pm rolls around and I check the
> order status and it says 'expected delivery: tomorrow'

Is the carrier LaserShip? They're well known for lying in order to meet daily
delivery numbers.

------
Clubber
That's pretty standard for what I call the "scam economy" that is the US for
the past 20 years. Watch any commercial.

~~~
TallGuyShort
Lest anyone not take you seriously, I noticed this when I first immigrated to
the US, and every time I've returned from a multi-week trip: the first time I
see a TV again I'm just flabbergasted at how nasty the advertizing is. When
you're not used to it, it just seems especially manipulative and very negative
towards the competition compared to other the other countries I've spent time
in (which primarily other countries heavily influenced by the UK).

~~~
throwaway91111
It's pretty shocking even if you are used to it. I can't believe people pay
for cable given how terrible of an experience it is.

~~~
EADGBE
Weird. It's always on when I click the button.

I pay for cable to enjoy baseball games, primarily, as there is no other way
to watch "in-market" otherwise. For certain demographics, it's just the most
sense.

I mean, TV is TV. If I spend a little bit more to never have to deal with
buffering, or a laggy UI, it's worth it to me. I think a lot of non-cord-
cutters would agree.

Re: cord cutting; I've tried, I really have.

~~~
throwaway91111
I totally get the always on thing; especially for baseball. My point was more
that ads are the driving force for me, and i am sure others, to abandon the
platform; it feels a little like someone invading your home to yell at you if
you're not used to it.

But this applies to YouTube too; cable cutting is hardly a panacea to avoid
intrusive ads.

~~~
TallGuyShort
Personally, ads are easy enough for me to skip with a DVR (so long as you
don't mind a lag between the live event and you watching it happen - avoiding
results on the Internet isn't always easy) - but I don't even get the always-
on thing. I had outages just as often as I do with Internet (actually more
so), and I've had events not broadcasted when advertized. NBC Sports has been
especially bad with this and F1 coverage - they outbid a motorsport-specific
channel to get exclusive access to more niche events, and then those events
get bumped to the bottom of the priority list in any scheduling conflict. So
if you are DVR'ing it, you better check on it at least daily with other
sources of information otherwise you're out of luck several times a season.
Which wouldn't even be so bad if the only way to get NBC Sports and the other
channels they move it to wasn't buying a 200 channel package and tripling my
bill. So I just withdrew entirely.

------
partiallypro
My issue with Amazon lately isn't just the prices no longer being the lowest,
it's that a big chunk of their products are counterfeits. I honestly have no
idea how they haven't tamped down on that. If I shop at Wal-Mart, Target,
Footlocker, etc, etc I know the products I buy aren't going to be fakes; no so
with Amazon. I have started buying less stuff on there after a number of
products have come back as fakes. I use Prime Video more than any other
service now, but there's only maybe 2 shows I even care about on there.

~~~
EADGBE
What kinds of things are you buying where counterfeits are a problem?
Genuinely intrigued.

~~~
pp19dd
Everything.

Just like the root poster, I am disgusted by clusters of knockoffs and
increasingly more weary of seeing them. Just about anything common you run
across on Amazon is probably not original (is there such a thing as an
uncommon product these days?) The worst part is that I can't get myself to
trust any reviews - good or bad - which was my go-to for feeling assured about
a purchase. A knockoff competitor may review or pay reviewers to ding someone
else's version of the product, and boost their own, and they've created a
scorched earth of uncertainty from this seller ecosystem.

For example, if you look up can openers, you'll see a bunch of ones that look
exactly alike but are labeled as different brands. They contain slightly
altered stock photos, but almost certainly all are stemming from the same
original product. Mixed reviews give you cautions for some products, but not
for others that are identical. Does it stay sharp, or doesn't it? Does it fail
after 10 uses, or doesn't it? Does it work with lipped cans or doesn't it?

If you look carefully, you can probably guess in which order a product
imitation was born in, based on the progressively more distorted JPEGs of the
cover photo.

Look for a wire brush and you'll see same photo of the same product,
"manufactured" by different companies. Senkary, Sucool, Tekton, eBoot, ABN,
and a few dozen seemingly randomized names. I think I don't care about wire
brush manufacturing consistency as long as it doesn't arrive wrapped in 1/4 lb
of plastic and foam, and dripping with machine oil (I chuckled when I got it).

On the other hand, I do care whether a sprinkler head I get is actually
pressure regulated and calibrated to 30 PSI, that the variable arc nozzle is
built to spec and won't decompose in sunlight and clog rest of the irrigation
system, and I do care whether a phone charger might burn my house down. Unless
I order those three products directly from the known manufacturer, I won't
trust that it's genuine.

~~~
acuozzo
> Everything.

The solution is to purchase products shipped and sold by Amazon. Avoid third
party sellers unless you either know the seller well or if the seller is the
manufacturer of the product.

------
illegal_in_ca
Er, is this not illegal in the USA? It is in Canada:

 _The Act prohibits false or misleading representations to the public as to
the ordinary selling price of a product, in any form whatsoever. Ordinary
selling price is validated in one of two ways: either a substantial volume of
the product was sold at that price or higher, within a reasonable amount of
time (volume test); or the product was offered for sale, in good faith, for a
substantial period of time at that price or a higher price (time test)._ [0]

[0] [http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-
bc.nsf/eng/02...](http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-
bc.nsf/eng/02776.html)

~~~
Sleeep
>Simpson says Amazon is breaking Section 5 (a) of the FTC Act that prohibits
"unfair or deceptive acts or practices."

>“It’s strategy called ‘Price-anchoring.’ It’s pretty common across the board.
Now as far as it being against the law or breaking any rules or regulations,
it could be considered false and deceptive marketing under the FTC Section 5,”
Kelly adds.

Many States call this practice out specifically as an unfair trade practice in
their laws as well.

------
joshwa
When I worked at a very large bricks/ecommerce retailer, the FTC had their eye
on us for decades, so we had very complex pricing rules to make sure that we
established "regular price" for a certain number of days before an item could
be put on sale, and could only stay on sale for a certain percentage of on-
sale days, then once "marked down" or "clearance" could never have the price
raised again.

I'm guessing the FTC will have their eye on Amazon pricing soon.

~~~
AlexandrB
Given the current political climate, it's more likely the FTC will be
dismantled first. That is unless The Washington Post pisses off the POTUS
enough.

------
ballenf
If you look at revenue and profit analysis from Amazon, it's clear that they
are still customer focused. It's just that advertisers are now a bigger
customer than the "real" customers. Amazon makes more money off of sponsored
listings than selling the item sponsored. Kinda crazy.

~~~
philbarr
Does that imply that, overall, people are making less from selling things than
it costs to advertise them?

------
freshhawk
Back at an old startup when I had a lot of data from clothing retail websites,
including historical prices and sale status, I ran some queries out of
curiosity to look for this.

I'm pretty cynical but I was still shocked at the number of results. This
seems to be a completely normal practice. Price and being on "SALE" seemed to
be optimized or A/B tested almost separately. And the "regular price" field on
sale items was garbage data that correlated with nothing.

------
j79
I saw a lot of comments saying "Prime Day" was really "Prime Marketing Day".
Seems that was the case.

~~~
nerdshoe
Can confirm. I spotted a plane towing an Amazon banner over my city on Prime
day.

~~~
mikeash
I can't figure it out, is this absurdist sarcasm or just factual reporting of
real events?

------
1024core
I use Google Shopping (
[http://shopping.google.com/](http://shopping.google.com/) ) to compare
prices. We saved over $300 on a King-sized bed when we wanted to upsize our
bed.

------
robryan
I suspect RRP/ MSRP have nearly always been useless. Comparison is the only
way to get a true sense of what a regular market price is for something. Too
often I will see something on a 50%+ off sale which might just be matching the
market or actually 5-10% off where the rest of the market is at.

After all, why would a retailer ever discount more than 10-20% off what
everyone else is charging, outside of a clearance?

------
JumpCrisscross
Note that producers can't contractually force independent retailers to obey
certain prices under antitrust rules. Hence MSRPs being merely "suggested".

~~~
bloaf
It sounded to me like what the company objected to was Amazon claiming that
the MSRP was higher than it actually was.

------
kbenson
So, just like every other store, before the sale, they jack up the prices to
make the markdown look more extreme.

What, have people never shopped in Sears/Macys/Mervyns or any other department
store since the beginning of time?

Seriously, the only response I can come up with to this news is "Well... duh."

~~~
ZoFreX
> just like every other store

This is illegal in many countries, so waving it off as "everyone does it" is
not only morally weak, but factually inaccurate.

------
SeanDav
For me, Amazon used to be synonymous with quality, convenience and peace of
mind. That has now changed, it is now merely convenient and subject to
increasing competition. This last year I cancelled my Amazon Prime and now
using Amazon far less than I used to.

Amazon has dropped the ball.

------
em3rgent0rdr
Not really newsworthy. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book.
"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it." -Publilius Syrus
(1st century BC)

~~~
cakedoggie
This is newsworthy and should be called out every time, especially when it is
such a trusted seller as Amazon.

~~~
em3rgent0rdr
"trusted seller"? What does that mean? What makes Amazon a "trusted seller",
and why should we expect them to be different than any other seller?

~~~
Sleeep
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies)

------
didibus
For some reason, I can't take this seriously coming from fox news. They seem
to be having an agenda with the current president, and Amazon has been getting
hit as a collateral for feuds against the Washington post.

Either way, the article concludes with the vendor saying he think its just an
issue with tweaking their algorithms, and not an actual tactic from Amazon.

Is there any other source that claim the same?

------
beluis3d
Udemy does this as well for all of their products.

~~~
bdcravens
Indeed. They pretty have an eternal "sale" for $10.

Quick check: yep. $10. "Set Yourself Apart - Keep your competitive edge with
courses for $10—ends 7/31!"

Pretty sure by 8/3, there will be another sale for $10.

~~~
thaumasiotes
Hmmm. I seem to recall that Sears was sued for running "sales" more than six
months out of the year, and lost. I feel like that would apply here?

~~~
FireBeyond
There is an administrative code in my state that says that "furniture
retailers may only have one 'closing down'/'final' sale per year"...

------
isubkhankulov
Amazon created a second black friday. I'm impressed by Jeff Bezos!

~~~
mtgx
And they both offer fake discounts, too! The attention to detail in the
replication of Black Friday is amazing!

------
post_break
Off topic but I just picked up those shoe deodorizers for $10 at the container
store and they have actually knocked down the stench emanating from my hiking
shoes.

------
nodesocket
I bought a Brother laser printer with toner for $80 shipped in two days. Happy
Amazon consumer here. You'll have to rip Prime out of my cold dead hands.

~~~
EADGBE
Agreed.

People are just complaining to complain. It's also kinda cool right now to
hate Amazon. It's gotten too big, ya know. They're evil, lol.

------
freewizard
I feel the same based on price of items I watched. I'm curious any site like
camelcamelcamel can help quantify this "scam" :)

------
vermontdevil
aka these Labor Day, Black Friday, and other annual sales by your nearest
retailer. Same old.

------
zitterbewegung
There were good deals on shoes. I bought shoes for $36.20 (New Balance) that
retail for $51.

------
losteverything
Article is worth reading. Imo the upping of price after demand increase is
awful.

Also, i do not think those addicted to Amazon care about these types of
things. They keep ordering and ordering. Convenience is the name of their game

~~~
kogepathic
_> Imo the upping of price after demand increase is awful._

What? This is economics 101 of supply and demand. When demand exceeds supply,
the price will increase. [0]

Just look at the stupidity of video card prices recently if you want a
concrete, non-sale example of why price increases when supply cannot meet
demand.

[0]
[http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3....](http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp)

~~~
cronjobber
From the article: _" It’s not like they’re bumping it by a buck and making a
little bit more money. They are really tanking sales and it kind of has a
ripple effect to us, being a small company trying to do demand planning"_

The relevant Econ 101 buzzword isn't "supply and demand," it's "agency
problem".

Amazon is "tanking sales" unilaterally, while the supplier manages stock on
assumptions of higher sales at the regular, lower price point.

------
adjkant
Keepa is a great extension for price tracking on Amazon directly embedded into
the page.

[https://keepa.com/](https://keepa.com/)

------
camel_gopher
Amazon bumped the price of a $20 Britta water filter by $15 when I went to
purchase it a second time. Odd how that can happen.

------
org3432
How do you fact check Fox?

~~~
EADGBE
How do you fact check anyone?

------
wynemo
haha, this is similar to what JD do in China.

------
SCAQTony
FOX is fishing for how Amazon could be hurting consumers so as to get anti
trust litigation going. It is not illegal to be a monopoly but if it is
hurting consumers it is fair game.

My opinion Amazon is NOT hurting consumers but rather Trump and the
Republicans want to hurt it. YMMV

~~~
lovich
Conservatives can be looking to hurt Amazon and Amazon can be hurting
consumers at the same time. I don't see how you can argue that lieing to
consumers is not hurting them

~~~
digitalzombie
Yup. As much as I dislike RNC and Foxnews right now, it doesn't mean Amazon
ain't being a bad company.

FoxNews can be right once in a full moon.

------
awkwarddaturtle
A few years ago, the word on the street was that bezos agreed to boost prices
to reward the longtime shareholders/hedge funds/etc. And as expected, the
prices on amazon have noticeably increased and the shares are at all-time
highs.

Amazon is large enough now that they have a "captive market".

------
jedberg
Maybe I'm in the minority here but I don't have a problem with this. If they
raise the price based on demand, and I still deem it a good price, then who
was harmed here? Sure I paid more than I needed to but I still paid less than
I felt it was worth to me.

~~~
mikeash
They didn't raise the price based on demand. They raised the price so that
they could "discount" it and make it look like a good deal when it wasn't.

If a product is normally $10, and then it's sold as "discounted 50% for Prime
Day, now only $10," that's fraudulent.

If Amazon decides to charge more and people are willing to pay it, there's
nothing wrong with that. The problem is when they lie to make people think
they're getting more of a deal than they are.

~~~
jedberg
But that's not what they did. Their algorithms automatically raised those
prices based on demand. The demand just happened to be driven by being part of
prime day.

~~~
mikeash
Meaning that the algorithms were raising the non-discounted prices
automatically because the discounts were driving demand?

If they're going to offer discounts that compare to the original price, that
original price needs to actually be an original price, not something that's
being changed while the discount is still in effect. If Amazon didn't do this,
they're either utterly incompetent or they're letting it happen because they
know it will trick people.

------
grennis
Go to a brick and mortar jewelry store, everything is 100% off.

~~~
dragonwriter
100% off is free, no matter what the base price is, so that's clearly not
true. (Though, oddly, it's not uncommon online, with a “just pay (inflated)
shipping and handling charge” proviso.)

~~~
crimsonalucard
The guy meant 100% of the new price off from the old price. It's a bit of a
reverse temporal brain fart, but it is a valid statement. For some reason I
just instinctively knew that this is what he meant.

~~~
EADGBE
Hey, any reason to downvote someone into oblivion is a cause worth fighting
for.

\- Someone with too much time and too much karma.

