
Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices - superted
https://www.oculus.com/blog/a-single-way-to-log-into-oculus-and-unlock-social-features/
======
atarian
Palmer Luckey, the original creator had this to say over on /r/oculus:

    
    
      I am already getting heat from users and media outlets who say this policy change proves I was lying when I consistently said this wouldn't happen, or at least that it was a guarantee I wasn't in a position to make. I want to make clear that those promises were approved by Facebook in that moment and on an ongoing basis, and I really believed it would continue to be the case for a variety of reasons. In hindsight, the downvotes from people with more real-world experience than me were definitely justified. 
    
      A few examples below so people won't make up their own version of what I actually said:
    
      - I guarantee that you won't need to log into your Facebook account every time you wanna use the Oculus Rift.
      - You will not need a Facebook account to use or develop for the Rift
      - Nope. That would be lame.
      - I promise.
    

Source:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/ic4ye1/new_oculus_u...](https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/ic4ye1/new_oculus_users_required_to_use_a_facebook/g20dysu/)

~~~
nrp
Most of the folks on this thread are commenting from the perspective of 2020,
but Facebook had pretty significantly different reputation in 2014, especially
around M&A. They had recently brought in both Instagram and WhatsApp without
meddling in either their product stacks or their leadership teams. It's easy
to claim now that this was all naive, but at the time it was plausible that
these organizations and brands would remain fairly independent and autonomous
within the Facebook umbrella.

~~~
gambler
No.

This development was _trivially predictable_ right when Facebook acquired
Oculus. Which is why I bought Vive instead.

You don't need to be a genius to see stuff like this ahead of time. All you
have to do is refuse to be gaslit and be honest about the high-level drivers
of corporate decision-making.

~~~
mrguyorama
I also spent an extra $100 to buy a Vive instead of a Rift. I didn't predict
this exact action but I didn't trust Facebook to keep their fingers off of it

~~~
jimmaswell
$100 doesn't sound worth not having to use a facebook account to me. you can
just make a bogus one with no info on it.

~~~
kmonsen
Can you? Don't you need a credit card attached?

Still possible but most people will not that far to hide information from
facebook.

~~~
rvnx
Same problem with Fitbit and Nest and Google :(

~~~
sharken
Had settled on getting a Fitbit as my fitness and sleep tracker, but was
unaware of the acquisition by Google :/

Given the Oculus/FB fallout here I want to buy somewhere else.

And trusting Garmin seems a bit unlikely, sigh.

~~~
katbyte
Apple Watch at iOS/apple seem to take privacy at least half serious

------
xg15
This is something that still completely baffles me about the "IoT"/"smart
devices"/"connected devices"/"whatever you want to call it" space.

If someone advertised a device as capable of doing X without it in fact being
able to do X, they'd be liable for false advertising.

If someone sold you a device, then took it back or destroyed it, they'd be
liable for theft or destruction of property.

Nevertheless, if someone sells you a connected device and then _completely
alters the rules by which the device operates_ at an arbitrary point in time
after the sell, that's perfectly fine.

Have we really given up basic consumer rights that easily?

~~~
latenightcoding
It baffles me too. My Samsung smart tv started showing me ads in the control
panel/home screen. I paid full price for it, why am I seeing ads. I wish I
could return it, but the snakes waited until the return period was over.

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
This is some bullshit. I would blackhole whatever fucking API they are
using... just limit the incoming, but allow outgoing so their ad networks
begin counting it as a non-shown ad.

~~~
greycol
Problem is that there is at least one smart TV that gets stuck in a boot loop
when it goes to update it's ads and can't. Support in that case tells them to
connect to the internet and it'll work (which ofcourse will grab the new batch
of ads). There are plenty of other cases with smart TVs losing actual
functionality when the server that serves ads is blocked and because it's an
updateable service you can't really tell which smart TV will sting you.

------
danShumway
A very brief history of Facebook's involvement with Oculus and how this has
shaped up, just from quickly searching HN previous posts:

\- (2014) Facebook acquires Oculus:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469115](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469115),
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469237](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469237)

\- (2016) Oculus's privacy policy sparks concern:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11410809](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11410809)

Oculus responds to privacy concerns about user tracking
([https://uploadvr.com/facebook-oculus-
privacy/](https://uploadvr.com/facebook-oculus-privacy/)) saying

> Facebook owns Oculus and helps run some Oculus services, such as elements of
> our infrastructure, but we’re not sharing information with Facebook at this
> time. We don’t have advertising yet and Facebook is not using Oculus data
> for advertising – though these are things we may consider in the future.

\- (2019) If logged into Facebook, Oculus data may be used for ads:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21770752](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21770752)

From their official statement:

> If you choose not to log into Facebook on Oculus, we won’t share data with
> Facebook to allow third parties to target advertisements to you based on
> your use of the Oculus Platform.

\- (2020): Facebook accounts are now required.

None of this is particularly surprising, lots of people (even in the press)
were calling out how this was going to evolve. But it's still interesting to
look back 6 years and see what the initial reactions were and what people were
most concerned about.

The takeaways:

\- data silos are always temporary

\- companies think on a larger timeline than just 2 years in advance

\- this kind of thing nearly always gets executed as a slow boil. Facebook
didn't buy Oculus and immediately require an account and start advertising to
users. But I don't believe for one second that Mark wasn't thinking it at the
time.

~~~
umvi
But did Facebook add any value (i.e. engineering money/hours) to improve the
device? What you've listed are all negatives, but there have to be at least a
few positives to come out of it.

~~~
ggreer
Without Facebook's capital and Zuckerberg's commitment to VR, I doubt the
Quest would exist. That project was announced in 2016 and was likely in
development for a couple of years before that. Still it took until mid-2019 to
be released to the public. IIRC, Carmack said that development on the Go was
started after the Quest, yet the Go went to market a year sooner. I can only
imagine what kind of hell it was to get a 2016 phone SoC to do VR with 6DOF
inside-out tracking.

~~~
jayd16
Lenovo did it before the Go released (or about the same). It was kind of
gimped because they went with the Daydream controller instead of full
controllers but the headset itself was roomscale VR. It was also bigger and
not as comfortable but worked on a previous gen SOC to the Quest. Check out
the Lenovo Mirage Solo.

~~~
ggreer
Since it only had two front-facing cameras, the Mirage Solo would have
required extra hardware to track any controllers. Also I don't think there was
ever an app for it that let you walk two steps away from the origin. The only
truly room scale thing I saw was a demo written by some developers. They had
to put the headset in dev mode and disable a bunch of safety mechanisms. I
wonder if this limitation was imposed to minimize drift.

~~~
jayd16
I developed on it and the limitation was mostly self imposed for safety/perf
reasons. Its much easier to draw a consistent roomscale boundary on the Quest
with the 6DOF controller. Without that its a real UX problem. Even the Quest
is constantly asking to redraw the boundary. It was one of two SOC generations
(as well as VR SDK gens) earlier and it was quite hard to build out a full
room without a lot of perspective tricks.

There was an experimental add on for 6DOF controllers
[https://developers.google.com/vr/experimental/6dof-
controlle...](https://developers.google.com/vr/experimental/6dof-controllers)

It really wasn't a fundamental technical leap to go from the Mirage to a
Quest. The Quest feels like a (well thought out) iteration instead of a
revolution compared to the Mirage Solo.

~~~
schrep
Tracking controllers in 6DOF from headset cameras is the hardest part. Nobody
has yet replicated this for a stand-alone headset.

~~~
jayd16
Why do you say its the hardest part? Hand gesture tracking is quite hard, but
tracking IR LEDs on a controller is much easier than tracking head motion as
long as you have the camera setup to keep them in view.

------
eugeniub
Well this is horrifying. I bought a Quest for a relative. He loves it, but he
doesn't have a Facebook account, and has no interest in signing up. I have a
Facebook account, but I don't use it, and I certainly don't want to connect my
Oculus account. I guess we'll both have to sell our Quests. That means we'll
lose all of our game purchases.

I came to Oculus with eyes wide open knowing it was a Facebook company, but
this news still sucks.

~~~
wlesieutre
If you make a Facebook account and never touch the Facebook aspect of it, is
there any material difference between that and an Oculus account?

~~~
saxonww
A better question: why does a VR headset require an account at all? Should my
monitor require an account? Should my keyboard?

It's a peripheral, not a platform.

~~~
avarun
Not sure if you know what device you're talking about. The Oculus Quest is
very much a platform, not a "peripheral". There's no device that the Quest
connects to to be used as a peripheral. It's a completely stand alone
computing device that serves as a platform for third party software, the same
as your phone which requires an account.

~~~
ryandrake
Nothing in the announcement limits this to the Quest. It says Oculus "devices"
including peripherals. What is the justification for requiring an account to
use a peripheral that you plug into your computer?

Even if it were just the Quest: How is it reasonable to require an account to
use a "stand alone computing device"? I have many stand alone computing
devices in my home without the need for an account with their manufacturers.

I was already skeptical of my Oculus Rift when after buying it I learned I
needed to create an account just to download drivers (WTF!) No other device on
my computer requires an account to obtain drivers. I would love to hear the
justification.

~~~
crakhamster01
I'm not sure I follow this line of thought. Without an account, what would all
the game purchases you make be associated with? What about friends lists?
Support requests? The Oculus, and the vision for the product, is more akin to
consoles than it is your run-of-the-mill PC.

~~~
IanSanders
I disagree.

Take oculus Rift as an example. You own a game (on a different platform) which
supports VR (including your device). You plug your Rift in, calibrate the
sensors/room and start playing the game. You shouldn't even need internet
connection.

For support requests, use the serial number, like everywhere else.

Consoles work offline just fine.

------
Keverw
What happens if you were banned from Facebook (for example political
censorship or other possible reasons I can't think of off the top of my head)?
Is your Oculus device bricked and useless? I'm a fan of Oculus, but this is a
bit of a turn off. But I guess if Apple makes their own VR headset, they
probably require an Apple account but Apple isn't really a social network so
feel less of a risk, same for Microsoft's Mixed Reality headsets too I'd
imagine.

Then your purchases and stuff are lost too, I guess as WebXR matures though
maybe there will be some great apps you can just pay directly for on the web,
but I feel like if rumors of Apple making a headset they'll just skip WebXR
and force the app store... I know other headsets including the Oculus supports
WebXR but sorta feels like it's a conflict of interest to their own stores to
me so wonder how much more advanced it'll get.

~~~
soulofmischief
This creates a chilling effect which puts my first ammendment rights at risk
as an American, and it should be (and probably is if anyone actually bothered
to correctly interpret the law anymore) illegal.

~~~
coldpie
Facebook is a private corporation. The first amendment has no bearing on how
Facebook decides to operate their business.

~~~
soulofmischief
We're talking about an open social platform which half the world's population
uses, so it's effectively a public space and the fact that a simple political
opinion could be enough to cancel my account means that when hundreds of
dollars are on the line, my voice may be effectively silenced.

It's a huge problem and even if you don't realize it now, it is going to be a
huge political issue in the future.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
And it has a simple solution, albeit an unsavory one to many of America's more
free-market minded persons: If they are effectively a public space, then
nationalize them and make it official.

~~~
stjohnswarts
That will never happen. The politician that sets it up will be voted out in
the next election and everything he's done will be undone. Even as progressive
as I am I will never vote for anyone who wants to nationalize a private
company. That's what the CCP does, not America.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
If America is unwilling to stomach nationalizing a private company, but will
stomach privatizing a previously public domain, where do you think that's
going to land us?

------
evo_9
This was the reason I bought an HTC Vive instead of a Rift; I never trusted
that this would hold. I recently considered buying a Quest. I won't ever
consider that again.

Don't support Facebook ever, they don't deserve it.

Incidentally here is a comment I made recently about the bullshit they pulled
on my wife and I relating to creating a business listing:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959088](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959088)

~~~
ehsankia
The SteamVR ecosystem is just so much nicer. I trust them far more than any of
the alternatives. OpenVR for example has lead to many fantastic tools.

~~~
evo_9
I didn't know much about Steam before I bought the VIVE and yes, it's actually
a very nice platform. One thing that isn't apparent - you can return any game
for a full refund within a certain (fair) amount of time owned and/ or you
don't exceed some (also fair) time-of-play amount.

It makes me more likely to try a game on a whim knowing and if it's not for me
I can refund it without hassle. Great way to handle it, I currently own close
to 100 VR titles and have refunded at least 20+ that just weren't for me.

~~~
Lycake
There are a lot of things that could cause you to not being able to enjoy the
game, that you can't see in screenshots or videos. Issues with movement, room
scale or motion sickness.

Compared to 2D games, it can be the case of "I can't play the game" rather
than "I don't want to / don't like the game". So the refund system is
especially great for VR.

------
AlexandrB
> Giving people a single way to log into Oculus — using their Facebook account
> and password — will make it easier to find, connect, and play with friends
> in VR.

Ugh. I guess Facebook is making a play to become the Steam/XBox Live of VR.
Why can't we just have gaming peripherals anymore without some kind of
platform tie-in?

~~~
phone8675309
Because the companies make a large amount of money on the platform. Look at
Apple/Google/MS/Sony/Nintendo charging for access to the platform - either
explicitly for online play, by taking a cut of sales on the platform, or in
the case of the console makers - both.

As someone who prefers to play games alone, it's frustrating. The first five
minutes after installing Steam is a constantly stream of "stfu and stop
shoving game release/update/sale announcements in my face", "gtfo with the
popup messages that a friend is playing a game", "wtf? why are you auto-
logging me into the messenger", "no, I don't consent to you building a
hardware inventory of my machine and using it for internal stats", and "jfc,
please just leave me alone and let me play some games".

It's almost enough to make me buy a shack in Montana and support the post
office.

~~~
_trampeltier
For me it's the reason, why I never started gaming again. I just wanna buy a
game and play. I don't wanna have any spyware on my PC.

~~~
mlindner
At least on Mac, Steam doesn't stick around when you close it. I never
understood the PC love for when you close apps have them simply stay resident
around in the lower right taskbar. Opening is an active choice.

~~~
bogwog
Having to wait for Steam to open and log you in every time you want to launch
a game sucks, plus keeping it open in the background lets you keep games up-
to-date, lets you use the chatroom features, and some other stuff.

The good thing about Steam, which makes it good software in my opinion, is
that you can easily customize it and turn features off, and nothing really
gets forced down your throat. It's almost like Valve feels they actually have
to make an effort to keep you as a customer. Compare that to anything from the
tech giants.

~~~
mlindner
> The good thing about Steam, which makes it good software in my opinion, is
> that you can easily customize it and turn features off, and nothing really
> gets forced down your throat. It's almost like Valve feels they actually
> have to make an effort to keep you as a customer. Compare that to anything
> from the tech giants.

If there's a way to turn off most of the recent UI updates I'd love to know
how.

~~~
phone8675309
Which UI updates are objectionable to you? Here's a dump of the changes I make
on my system when installing Steam. It's not all of them, just the most
generally useful.

To keep Steam from starting when you log in, select "Steam" from the menu bar
and then choose "Settings". Under "Interface", untick "Run Steam when my
computer starts". While you're in here, uncheck "Notify me about additions or
changes to my games, new releases, and upcoming releases" if you want Steam to
not tell you about those. You can use "Set Taskbar Preferences" to select what
options appear in the right click menu from the taskbar icon.

I run Steam in Small Mode, which makes it look like the old, old version of
Steam before they introduced the full screen library. To do this, go to
"Steam"->"Settings" and bring up the "Interface" group. Set "Select which
Steam window appears when the program starts, and when you double click the
Notification Tray icon" to "Library". Click okay and then select
"View"->"Small Mode" to show the classic small Steam interface. To the right
of the search box at the top of the screen is a selector where you can toggle
what is shown - I set this to "Installed" so only installed games are shown.
See here[0] for an example. This UI will revert if you uninstall a game - just
go to "View"->"Small Mode" to set it again. If you set it before closing Steam
then the next time you open Steam it will start in this mode.

To avoid being logged into the Friends system by default, open the "Friends"
menu from the menu bar and choose "View Friends". Then click the cog in the
upper right hand corner of the window that appears - this brings up the
settings window. Set "Sign in to friends when Steam Client starts" to off.
There are a bunch of notification settings in here - set them as you will.

To make the Steam store not suck (bandwidth), go to the "Library" tab in
"Steam"->"Settings" and set "Low Bandwidth Mode", "Low Performance Mode", and
"Disable Community Content".

To turn off Broadcasting, "Steam"->"Settings", "Broadcasting" group and set
"Privacy setting" to "Broadcasting Disabled".

You can tell Steam to create desktop shortcuts or Start menu shortcuts if you
want to not have to open Steam manually to play a game. When installing a
game, tick the "Create desktop shortcut" or "Create start menu shortcut" when
installing and then you can start the game (and Steam with it) by double
clicking that icon. There is no option to automatically quit Steam after a
game exits (because of course there isn't - "wHy WoUlD aNyBoDy WaNt To ClOsE
sTeAm" the fanboys go). For installed games, you can right click and choose
"Create Desktop Shortcut" to get a desktop shortcut for your game. You can use
the "steam://" URL generated anywhere Windows accepts URLs to launch steam
games.

Some people like auto-updates. Some people hate that they suck bandwidth,
especially for single player games. Unfortunately, there is no option in not
auto-update the game - you can chose "Always keep this game up to date", "Only
update this game when I launch it", or "High Priority - Always auto-update
this game before others" in the game properties. Setting this to "Only update
this game when I launch it" will try to perform updates when you start a game
- if you have this set and you have the downloads set to not download while in
game, you should be able to force launch a game without updates and download
will not start.

Set up "Offline Mode" now. If Steam is down and you haven't used "Offline
Mode" recently then you won't be able to play your games with Steam offline.
Choose "Steam"->"Go Offline..." to run Steam in offline mode. This has the
benefit of being disconnected from the Steam service, updates, friends, etc.

[0] [https://imgur.com/WOUpLkr](https://imgur.com/WOUpLkr)

------
Aardwolf
My monitor, mouse and keyboard don't require any accounts (yet?), why does a
device with two monitors and motion sensors require it?

~~~
willcipriano
>My monitor, mouse and keyboard don't require any accounts (yet?)

I take it you don't have any Razer devices.

~~~
georgeecollins
The Razer accounts are in no way mandatory. They just have an app that auto-
updates drivers (and probably does a lot of data mining) but you don't need to
use it to use the device. It is a funny comment though, I laughed when I read
it.

~~~
wlesieutre
I don't know about Razer recently, but I have a 13 button Logitech mouse
(G700s) and it would be essentially useless without the Logitech software to
configure it. I assume Razer mice are the same, you could technically use them
without Synapse, but if you're doing that you may as well have bought a
Microsoft Intellimouse instead.

And Synapse did require a login for several years. Looks like it doesn't
anymore, thankfully: [https://www.tomshardware.com/news/razer-
synapse-3-removes-lo...](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/razer-
synapse-3-removes-login-requirement,39344.html)

Personal mouse experience, I had two Razers that died right outside warranty,
while my Logitech is at >6 years. Those were before their driver shenanigans,
but the drivers aren't even the main reason I wouldn't switch back.

~~~
daxelrod
I'm not sure if this is true for the G700s, but many other Logitech mice store
the configuration on the device itself, which lets you configure it once and
then get rid of the software or use it on computers or OSes where you've never
installed the software. This is true for my G502.

~~~
wlesieutre
It's true for a single configuration, but not if you want to bind different
keys per program with the "Automatic Game Detection" mode.

I mainly use one profile for games and set any keybinds I need in each one,
but I've used automatic game detection for other software like repurposing the
DPI adjustment buttons for quick shortcuts to blender's popup radial menus.

~~~
daxelrod
Ah, gotcha. The G502 stores something like 5 modes and has a mode switcher
button on the mouse, but I could see the convenience of wanting automatic
switching per program.

------
mortenjorck
So if I don't have a Facebook account and I buy an Oculus Quest after October,
does this mean I may have to submit a copy of my driver's license just to set
up a piece of consumer electronics?

~~~
fullshark
You need to submit a copy of your driver's license for a FB account these
days??

~~~
rement
If that is the case it would be harder to get a FB account than to vote in
some states...

~~~
InitialLastName
It's almost like having access to a company's services is less essential than
having a hand in your society's decision-making mechanism.

~~~
soulofmischief
What happens when we privatize voting, too?

~~~
InitialLastName
A further sacrifice of the needs of the people in favor of the whims of our
corporate overlords? You don't even really need to vote; Facebook already
knows you want to vote for Mark.

------
whywhywhywhy
Genuinely think VR would be dead by now and considered a flash in the pan fad
if it wasn't for the software and hardware Oculus has done. Valve and HTC just
really didn't invest the time and money seriously in the platform and think
HL:Alyx only shipped because Oculus dragged the format forward and showed the
potential.

Just don't get why they're doing this at this point, I'd understand if they
had iPhone level sales but although the Quest is selling great it's not there
yet and it seems a misstep to push everyone into FB from it so soon lots of
people will be turned off by the idea. Forcing the tens of thousand Oculus
holdouts and saving a handful of engineering salaries surely can 't be worth
the bad press and harm to the growing platform

Hope the 4 people who bought Quests after playing mine don’t whinge to me
about this.

~~~
CobrastanJorji
When the actor seems irrational, you should step back and ask "who is the
actor and what are their motivations?"

This doesn't feel like an act of Facebook as a whole. They should be thinking
long term, big picture. Zuckerberg seems to have an image of Neuromancer's
Matrix in his head, and we ain't there yet. He'd definitely take this step but
I wouldn't think he'd do it until he more solidly owns VR.

What I see here is a senior manager type, maybe a VP or a bit below it, who
needs numbers that go dramatically up and to the right in the short term and
is thinking about their own personal success. They'd be the ones to say "how
do we turn this acquisition into Facebook-measurable success metrics so we can
prove that we're worth all this spending? Ah, yes, mandate Facebook logins,
great idea, do it."

~~~
md5person
> "What I see here is a senior manager type, maybe a VP or a bit below it, who
> needs numbers that go dramatically up and to the right in the short term and
> is thinking about their own personal success."

I mean, there are plenty of other ways to demonstrate value without forcing
people to login with a Facebook account to use their Oculus devices. In-fact,
I'm not sure what added value this requirement demonstrates in the first
place?

People already pay for the hardware, servicing, apps/games, and upgrades.

~~~
jiofih
“Demonstrate added value” can be an entirely fictional construct in business
environments. Don’t take it literally.

------
ohyes
Quelle surprise, a big tech company making a big tech company move to drive
users into their embattled flagship.

I take this as a negative indicator of how things are going for Facebook. I
don’t see any synergy with oculus other than that both products have users.
Maybe that is enough from a business standpoint, but I feel forcing login to
Facebook is going to kill oculus adoption, it isn’t like 6 years ago, there
are viable alternatives if you want a VR rig. It just looks and feels
desperate to me.

~~~
Lycake
> I feel forcing login to Facebook is going to kill oculus adoption

I'm hoping you are right, but I feel like the average consumer is not so
privacy aware and wouldn't mind using Facebook as their login. It's probably
even more convenient since they already have a Facebook account and don't need
to create an additional account for Oculus.

------
atoav
I recently gave a seminar about how to use Oculus devices in combination with
Unity at university. Oculus produces great devices, but man is the software a
convoluted nightmare.

A (very patient) student of mine tried to install the oculsu software on a
current thinkpad for 4 days in a row. It always failed for various reasons.
She used a current Windows 10 and her computer definitly has the specs. She
even reinstalled windows. In the end there was an electron error, which we
sent to the support - we never got a reply.

If you can avoid Oculus, do so at all cost.

~~~
apta
What are viable alternatives?

~~~
ogurechny
Not wasting your only life on standing with a piece of plastic on your head?
Seems pretty viable to me.

~~~
victords
Ah, yes, instead let's just sit down in front of another piece of plastic
typing on a keyboard to give unrelated advice on the internet about how bad
it's to waste your life in front of a piece of plastic.

~~~
ogurechny
Yes, this was obvious next point in discussion. The trick is keep the thought
going and never stop mid-step with a leg in the air thinking this intermediate
position is a solid ground. As a next step, we might then ask what makes
interaction with a piece of plastic worthy. For example, if you've noticed a
popular discussion of a _disaster_ that can be essentially summarized as “our
favourite toy has been broken”, and the participants are actually grown up
people (?) who are all about showing their investment in “serious business”,
shouldn't you sprinkle it with some common sense? Is it a worthy kind of use
of electronics?

------
pugworthy
Some shade from HP's Joanna Popper on r/HPReverb...

"The HP Reverb G2 does not require a Facebook account today or in 2023."

[https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/ic93cn/for_anyone...](https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/ic93cn/for_anyone_just_joining_the_conversation/)

------
zmmmmm
A lot of justified outrage here but I would make a separate point: I think
Facebook has made a terrible decision here in terms of their platform play.
They legitimately had a chance here to own the future of not just consumer but
_business_ computing. The apps now coming on the scene for virtual workspaces
still have limitations but it is utterly clear to me that this will become a
major mode of work and collaboration in the business world at some point in
the future. But requiring facebook logins just threw a huge hurdle in front of
that. There is no way I am going to suggest our workplace purchase these and
then have everybody logging in with personal facebook accounts. And I can't
imagine workplaces mandating people have or use facebook accounts.

I guess we will wait to see what Apple and Microsoft now do in the space since
Facebook and Google both seem to have (inexplicably) bowed out of the race.

~~~
jobigoud
It's also a terrible decision for the other uses of VR, escapism, porn, games…
For escapism, you don't want to be constantly reminded of the real world. For
the other uses you don't want your real life friends and family to know how
much time you spend on that…

------
ulzeraj
What do they mean by this?

> Using a VR profile that is backed by a Facebook account and authentic
> identity helps us protect our community and makes it possible to offer
> additional integrity tools. For example, instead of having a separate Oculus
> Code of Conduct, we will adopt Facebook’s Community Standards as well as a
> new additional VR-focused policy. This will allow us to continue to take the
> unique considerations of VR into account while offering a more consistent
> way to report bad behavior, hold people accountable, and help create a more
> welcoming environment across our platforms. And as Facebook adds new privacy
> and safety tools, Oculus can adopt and benefit from them too.

Isn't oculus just some kind of display device? Last time I've checked LG and
Samsung doesn't really policy what kind of content I'm using their monitors
for.

~~~
sigwinch28
They're trying to retcon something that sounds ever-so-slightly reasonable
into a slimy business decision.

------
bane
I'm reminded of this blog post from 2014. The predictions made here so far
have basically all held true 6 years later.

[http://assayviaessay.blogspot.com/2014/03/virtual-spaces-
rea...](http://assayviaessay.blogspot.com/2014/03/virtual-spaces-real-
data.html)

This action feels really connected to the coming Horizon virtual world thing
-- which coincidentally is also predicted in the blog post linked above.

[https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/25/facebook-
horizon/](https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/25/facebook-horizon/)

------
soulofmischief
So how do I get my money back, since my Oculus Rift is now completely useless
to me unless I allow myself to be spied on?

I purchased these devices with the promise that I would not need a Facebook
account, and I do not have one..

~~~
tgsovlerkhgsel
You can't, because you can continue to use your device without a Facebook
account for two years... which just so happens to be the statutory warranty
period in the EU.

~~~
soulofmischief
How convenient... At least I made it a point to only purchase VR games from
Steam.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
I'm in the same position as you, and from what I can tell we should be fine,
though we may have to put up with some nagging from the damned Oculus store.

> [Re: 20203] If you choose not to merge your accounts at that time, you can
> continue using your device, but full functionality will require a Facebook
> account.

Which I read as "you won't be able to use the store anymore or receive
driver/software updates for Oculus". I'm ok with that. By 2025 I'll either not
be doing any VR or will want a new rig anyway.

------
troydavis
This seems to mean that Facebook's account review/policy process and lack of
customer service - basically, that you're the product - now decides who can
use Oculus.

A week ago, I tried to sign up for Facebook in order to buy some ads[1]. With
nothing remarkable about the account or metadata[2], the first page I saw
after the signup form was

> Your Account Has Been Disabled. You can't use Facebook because your account,
> or activity on it, didn't follow our Community Standards.

That page was shown immediately after the signup form. I jumped through their
hoops of providing an SMS-able phone number, then a photo, and a few days
later got this final result:

> Your Account Has Been Disabled. You can't use Facebook because your account,
> or activity on it, didn't follow our Community Standards. We have already
> reviewed this decision and it can't be reversed."

Again, there's no activity on the account because I never saw any FB pages,
let alone used it. I'm not concerned - I cancelled my personal account back in
2013 and never looked back, and other than wanting to buy some public-service
ads, I still have no interest in it. I sure would care if I had an Oculus,
though.

[1]: Because Twitter prohibits or applies extra terms to many types of
issue/advocacy ads, and while I applaud their approach, those of us running
public-service campaigns get stuck in unpredictable policy enforcement.

[2]: Signing up from a residential Comcast US IP that I'm the only user/client
on, using an email address at a domain I own, am the only user on, has been
registered for 10+ years, etc.

~~~
acp2020
I had the same experience yesterday. Tried to setup a personal account to
access a group and next time I logged in I got the same message about not
following their "Community Standards". How is that possible? I didn't even do
anything yet! Continued for them to review the ban but I had to stop on the
very first step where they asked my phone number since I'll never give them
such an information. Now the whole shit is stuck and I cannot even remove my
account without giving them my number.

Isn't this just a phishing scam? This should be illegal.

------
ocdtrekkie
Honestly, the number of times an acquiring company has promised "we'll never
do this" and then "done this" is so staggering, I think any acquisition
promises should be codified with the FTC during the acquisition process as
consent decrees or the like, and it should require regulatory permission to
roll back. And then anything claimed not listed as such should just be assumed
to be a lie.

~~~
ahartmetz
Yeah, like the last time Facebook "did that"! Merging data from WhatsApp and
Facebook in that case.
[https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_17_...](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_17_1369)

------
mark_l_watson
I have a different opinion than most comments here. I love the Oculus Quest. I
don’t suggest that anyone waste their time in FB, but needing a FB account to
buy VR experiences for the Quest us all right with me.

Off topic, but my favorites are the Star Wars Vader Immortal Trilogy, Racket
Ball, and Ping Pong.

------
benecollyridam
I don't know if I think it will work, but it is at least worth it to vote here
to remove the FB login: [https://oculus.uservoice.com/forums/921937-oculus-
quest/sugg...](https://oculus.uservoice.com/forums/921937-oculus-
quest/suggestions/39317167-remove-mandatory-facebook-login)

~~~
ninkendo
I don't know anything about uservoice.com, but are they even affiliated with
facebook in any way? Why would facebook even care what happens on that site?

~~~
daveoc64
UserVoice is basically just a platform that companies (like Oculus) can use to
manage customer requests.

If Oculus didn't want UserVoice, they wouldn't have signed up for it.

------
georgeecollins
This is sad to me. I would like hardware to be hardware and services to be
services and I don't want a piece of hardware to require a particular service,
particularly when the hardware is of general purpose. I can accept that an
XBox wants an XBox live account because an XBox is for one thing, playing
games. An Oculus device really ought to just be a display peripheral that is
used for communications, for content creation, and yes games. I want something
like that to be as open as possible.

------
mensetmanusman
‘ Please log in to your national ID account before turning on your vehicle. ‘

~~~
Yhippa
More like "please drink a verification can".

~~~
genpfault
Classic![1]

[1]: [https://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png](https://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png)

------
Animats
I was expecting Facebook to sell off their VR operations, since they're not
scaling up much. Zuckerberg says he's not interested in any business with less
than a billion users. Facebook Spaces was a bust. Facebook Horizon didn't even
launch. John Carmack went off to work on AI.

If anything, Facebook's VR effort is just there in case someone else comes up
with a VR or AR threat to Facebook.

~~~
baby
Who says horizon won’t get released? Also Carmack is one person. You’re
judging a product due to one person leaving?

------
zelphirkalt
How to immediately lose a segment of your customers? Hmmm ah yes, require FB
for login! Way to go!

~~~
baby
Serious question: do you really think that someone who is enthusiastic about
VR would refuse to get the best headset out there because they would have to
create an account on some service online? I can’t fathom how that would stop
anyone who is truly interested about playing VR. It’s like telling someone
they will need a PS account to play the playstation or a Xbox account to play
the xbox, they’d probably be fine with that.

~~~
zelphirkalt
So, just to understand what you say correctly, I will ask: Do you think it is
ethically tenable to require these VR interested, enthusiastic people to sign
up to FB (known to be privacy nightmare), so that they are able to use the
product they spent lots of money on? Is it acceptable to force them to do
this, just because they are sufficiently interested in VR? Is it in general OK
to force people to connect with a third party, which has nothing to do with
the actual product?

I am not sure whether you are trying to justify this move, or whether you are
questioning that it will have an economic impact or really what the point is.

~~~
baby
I think it's fine yeah, I think it's fair to recognize that Facebook has had
some privacy issues, but 1) it doesn't mean that it'll impact you if you just
create a simple account and 2) it doesn't mean that FB will have more privacy
issues in the future

------
perlgeek
The notion that you need a cloud login for a piece of computer periphery to
work is just unacceptable to me.

"Want to print a page on your locally, USB-Connected printer? Log in at
hp.com".

------
DonHopkins
They should shape the Oculus Quest like an Alien Facehugger.

[https://www.getdigital.eu/Alien-Facehugger-
Plush.html](https://www.getdigital.eu/Alien-Facehugger-Plush.html)

~~~
brian_herman__
This TBH

------
mensetmanusman
Because there are multiple VR headsets, the only charitable argument for doing
this is to market:

‘the occulus is for jumping in a facebook world to visit your family’

I can buy that, if they refund current owners who don’t want that...

------
entropea
>If you’re an existing user and choose not to merge your accounts, you can
continue using your Oculus account for two years.

At least this gives me enough time to sell my Oculus and buy from another
company.

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
Yeah, they just lowered the resale value of your hardware... HTC Vive it is
then.

~~~
mrguyorama
Better throw my "old" vive on Ebay. Some people are going to need some
headsets!

------
outworlder
> We will take steps to allow you to keep using content you have purchased,
> though we expect some games and apps may no longer work.

Complain as much as you want about Steam, at least they are a games store and
store only.

I don't know why anyone would buy games from the Oculus store.

------
dschuetz
Was there any doubt that this would happen? I mean, it's always the same game:
naïve developers with an outstanding product, huge company willing to buy-out
technology while lying through their teeth making promises. It's Edison scams
Nikola Tesla all over again. I'm baffled that technology pioneers and makers
make the same naïve mistakes again and again for over 2 centuries now.

I'm sorry for the following statement. Deal with it. _You_ want shiny new
products and technology. _You_ develop new magical technology. _You_ write
insightful and groundbreaking scientific papers. Why are _you_ dependent on
investors, publishers and giant tech-firms? They exist because of _you_ ,
because _you_ need _them_. And _they_ know that. So, please, rid yourself of
the illusion that your product/paper can only survive if you give it away to
someone with power and influence. You give away power, for money, that's why
Facebook, Apple, Google got so powerful in the first place. It's _your_ fault.
Deal with it, you can do better than that.

------
ylee
I would appreciate suggestions on how to regain my Facebook account, shut down
without explanation a year ago. Despite its age (15 years) I barely used it,
let alone for anything "controversial", but did regularly log into it. I have
repeatedly tried to verify my identity by submitting an image of my driver's
license, without any response.

I don't want to create a fake Facebook account. I want my own back.

------
DannyB2
I never have nor never will have a Facebook or Twitter account. Probably not
other social media either.

It's bad enough having a Google account and all that encompasses.

It is astonishing that another company would require an account on some other
system. Now I don't have a problem with allowing using your Google, Facebook,
etc. account as a convenience to authenticate your account on some other
service.

~~~
delecti
HN is social media.

~~~
DannyB2
I suppose you could say that about any online forum.

There is a qualitative difference between HN and Facebook or Twitter. One of
these doesn't try to pry its tentacles into every aspect of your life while
trying to capture every possible scrap of information about you known and
unknown.

------
Mandatum
If you're in Australia: Refund your Oculus. If you aren't able to use the
product without agreeing to new terms, conditions of licensing agreements -
you are within your rights to return your product. Sorry to those who already
invested in developing for this platform. Amazon is the main supplier, and
they're usually very good for returns.

------
wpdev_63
They probably want to cut down on people reselling their accounts with the
games in them. That's what I did when I sold my oculus during the quarantine.
Why shouldn't I be able to resell my games just because they're digital now?

------
cosmojg
Fortunately, OpenHMD exists:
[http://www.openhmd.net/](http://www.openhmd.net/)

------
silentsea90
I don't get what people over here expected when Facebook acquired Oculus, and
also don't get why it is so hard to create a throwaway facebook account. No
condescension. Just not sure what I am missing in the extreme positions here

~~~
baby
Same here. It feels like an overreaction.

~~~
techer
I will use mine for 2 years but I have zero need for social.

------
a_zaydak
This will probably be when I stop using my Oculus. When I first got my Rift I
was super excited about the technology and it generally did not disappoint! I
have never been much of a gamer but love the idea of VR. I, however, deleted
my facebook account back in 2012 when I realized that it did not contribute
anything to my life. Over the years I have had to make the decision between
not being able to use a product or creating a facebook account just to use
them. Most of those products were mobile apps that required facebook logins. I
have always chosen to not use the products and will do so again.

------
jandrese
The most annoying part to me is that the only reason Facebook should have had
any interest in Oculus (apart from the money of course) is to create a VR/AR
social network. Yet here we are 6 years later and no Metaverse.

------
electrondood
Cool, so your existing Oculus device is guaranteed to be an expensive brick 2
years from now if you value privacy in any way.

------
Rounin
Call me old-fashioned, but does anyone else find it a bit strange that one
needs to log in in order to use a display device?

That Oculus had better have some pretty special pixels, if they need a network
connection to even be visible.

~~~
marcan_42
This is largely about the Oculus Quest, which is a self contained device (i.e.
a smartphone in a VR headset)

I'm assume their tethered display devices will still work without an account,
assuming you don't want to use their store/apps.

~~~
gfxgirl
Why would you assume that? The Oculus system software requires you to login.
Without it running no apps run, even 3rd party apps.

------
dathinab
Hy if someone from Oculus reads this requiring a Facebook (or Google) account
for login means I will never buy your products.

I also now many other people who think the same.

Goodby, I'm happy I hadn't yet time to but an Oculus product.

------
freejak
Here comes the walled garden. I don't have an Oculus HMD but took the risk of
purchasing exclusives from their store and running it via Revive. Looks like
those days may be over soon.

------
3pt14159
If you want to make promises to a community about what will happen to your
company after its acquired, tie them to a contract. "If you make Facebook
login required for Oculus within the next 20 years you owe me personally an
additional $10B." Then you can tell everyone about the line item in the
contract and vow to donate half of it to the EFF or rescue.org or whatever
floats your boat. Don't make promises your ass can't cash.

------
dreen
I already had to tie it to a Facebook account in order to record video on
Quest, unfortunately.

Quest is a great device, but I don't think my next VR headset will be an
Oculus.

~~~
techer
It’s a super device but I’ll never recommend it again.

------
Kapura
Incredible. I deleted my facebook account earlier this year, and I've been
looking to get a VR headset. This sort of forces me into the Vive camp, I
suppose.

------
rcarmo
OK. I had planned to get an Oculus Quest for Christmas (since it is reasonably
accessible, flexible and probably the best all-around headset out there right
now), and how my gut feeling is... No. Just no. I don't want to have Facebook
on anything.

I might consider creating a brand new, singleton account to use it, but to be
honest my gut reaction is that if they do not have a non-Facebook login, I
will just _not_ use it.

------
sharpneli
The FAQ had nothing about developing for the device.

Facebook TOS prohibits making multiple personal accounts. So one might assume
company one works for then provides a company account as using the civilian
account is not really a good thing.

If they mandate using the real civilian one then it’s maybe a good reason to
finally ”close” it by removing all friends and photos. It’s just a dev account
for oculus then.

------
zmmmmm
This is very saddening.

The fact that Facebook had not made this move actually had a significant
impact on me in assessing their overall "evil" factor for other services. Now
that they have, I'm left owning a Quest and looking for another platform to
move to over the next few years. I hope the competition steps up because the
Quest has really nailed everything important about VR.

------
joshspankit
Facebook is dangerously close to collapsing the whole VR industry with this.

------
Shorel
When will Carmack jump ships and go to join Valve?

~~~
sharken
It seems he will not if this article from 2018 is to be believed. But he is
also a Gamer and a reasonable guy, so he might have a change heart.

Link: [https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-i-intend-to-stay-at-
facebo...](https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-i-intend-to-stay-at-facebook-
after-oculus-quest-launch/)

~~~
criddell
I thought he was working on AI now?

~~~
sharken
Indeed: [https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/john-carmack-steps-down-
at...](https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/john-carmack-steps-down-at-oculus-to-
pursue-ai-passion-project-before-i-get-too-old)

[https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2547632585...](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2547632585471243&id=100006735798590)

------
djsumdog
I have an Oculus Go and pretty much only use it for Skybox and nothing else. I
hope I can just disable all updates and keep using it without connecting it to
a FB account. I haven't even bought anything on the store.

I guess it might be time to look at FOSS alternatives for these devices, just
to keep basic functionality. I wonder if the bootloaders are locked.

------
makecheck
I’m not sure how we’ve learned to accept “I am altering the deal” from tech
companies just because they have the _ability_ to change things remotely.

I mean, what if a furniture company just decided to break into your house,
reupholster your couch and remove some of the pillows? (Or I suppose, install
a recording device on the bottom?)

------
Cynosaur
What makes me angry is that people won't learn anything from this. The next
time something like this happens, people will defend it to the end and call
people who warn about it "paranoid" or "cynical".

Corporations are not your friends. Unless it is set in legal writing you can't
take their promises at heart value. Even if they set it in legal writing it
might mean nothing since they always find a way to worm around it. Their
ultimate goal is to fuck you over. Their pricing and profit margin are "take
as much as possible without them complaining". Games will get more expensive
and it has nothing to do with development costs, it has everything to do
"because they can so why wouldn't they".

Corporations are not idiots and they know how to do something subversively and
over a long period of time so people don't notice the changes. Look at how
microtransactions in games became almost a norm nowadays and future
generations won't even see anything wrong with it. Look at how using FOMO and
other psychological tricks are actually a "good retention method" now instead
of being unethical, people don't even complain against it any more, they
complain if it is badly implemented and they don't get enough of it. Companies
selling your data are getting less and less backlash over it with people using
arguments as "oh well they know everything already, I don't care".

I really hate all of this.

------
ccvannorman
Any news on jailbreaking Oculus devices so that I don't have to play this
silly game with hardware I own?

------
asiachick
This is a been a problem with Rift from the start. Of course it's 100x worse
to require an FB account but regardless, a record is kept of everything you do
with the device. VR-Chat 2 hrs day? Virt-A-Mate every night? Using that video
app from pornhub? All recorded and sent to facebook.

------
Santosh83
The larger point here is that there needs to be sensible limits on how many
markets or products a single company or group can operate in (among many other
regulations). Otherwise the endless acquisitions by the global behemoths will
continue right into techno-fascism of one kind or another.

------
droopyEyelids
Anyone remember the site
[https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/](https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/)
\- it records all the startup acquisition letters.

There should be a sister site that records all the post-acquisition promises
that get nuked

------
yalogin
Ha this is inevitable. Facebook would not leave the device alone obviously.
Oculus opens ups brand new data set and user base to sell ads. Not just that
facebook has done something that google couldn't do, they created another
successful product beyond their cash cow.

------
0xBeefFed
I guess now is the time to look into how to root the console and install a
custom ROM in a similar fashion to de-Googling your android phone. There is
already enough support in the community for side-loading APKs and the like.
Does anyone know of any ways to achieve this?

------
tracker1
I know this is a little off... but what would happen if say Alex Jones bought
an Oculus device? I mean, they've banned a number of people from the
platform.. and if the devices won't work without it, would that be breach of
contract/sale?

------
kostadin
Great, I can now attempt to sell my Vive Pro because this will surely drive up
demand for it.

------
detaro
Not going to repeat the general criticism covered in other comments, but how
is that going to work with professional users? Using employees private
Facebook accounts in a work setting is somewhere between a really bad idea and
impossible.

------
shoulderfake
I was considering buying a VR headset,Oculus just dropped their name out of
the hat

~~~
52-6F-62
I've owned the first Rift kit for a couple of years. I'll either stop using it
by the time 2023 rolls around or be looking for new offerings.

One of the things that pleased me about it is that it hasn't already been
rendered obsolete. Well I guess FB has set a date on _that_ now for no good
reason on the user end.

I'm curious to see what might be coming around hardware-wise in that time.

------
danboarder
I see a VR headset is primarily a piece of hardware. Think of it as a next-gen
computer monitor. Users like me expect it to work with any computer or
ecosystem (Steam, Windows, Mac, Linux, etc). Thus the outrage..

------
nbrempel
I've been really interested in purchasing a VR platform but Oculus' Facebook
integration has always been a dealbreaker for me.

What are the alternatives for a self-contained VR system? I don't want to have
to plug into a PC.

------
koalaman
Don't you need to be at least 13 years of age to register a Facebook account?

~~~
soulofmischief
I believe Oculus' TOS also "requires" you to be 13 or older. _Stares at VR
Chat_

------
martindale
Why do I need to log in to my display device?

~~~
laichzeit0
You made the mistake of thinking it's your device. It's Facebook's device, you
just payed to use it.

------
shmerl
Hardware tied to some account is ridiculous. Good thing there are projects
like OpenHMD and Monado, that aim to implement open runtime for VR and AR
devices.

* [http://www.openhmd.net/index.php/devices/](http://www.openhmd.net/index.php/devices/)

* [https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/ligh...](https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/lighthouse-positional-tracking-in-monado-with-libsurvive.html)

------
butterisgood
And? Did you think Facebook bought them cuz they thought VR was cool.

------
antihero
Amazing, so if you get banned from Facebook due to one of their dumb rules or
algorithms, I'm assuming you can sue them for the value of the device they've
just taken from you?

------
phendrenad2
As companies grow, they lose touch with smaller market segments. I see that
Facebook has grown to the point that it has lost touch with it's ENTIRE oculus
market. (Who buys Oculus? Cutting-edge techheads, who often don't like social
media). I expect that Oculus will die a slow death unless some exec sees some
important metric going down and tries to save it. But Facebook is huge, so
saving Oculus is unlikely to make a dent in financials.

------
StillBored
Yah, guess i'm going to be selling my rift, or at least re-purposing it. Not
that it matters much, i'm already unsupported as I refused to upgrade to win10
on the machine it was attached to.

PS, oculus has been the only piece of hardware I've purchased in the past few
years where the drivers caused a blue screen. Thats ignoring all the other
bullshit problems with the driver stack they have that can't even consistently
enable a pile of USB devices.

------
commandertso
I -just- decoupled Facebook from my Oculus account in preparation for deleting
Facebook. I guess in two years I make a throw-away account, or better yet,
move to Valve's current offering.

I'm super done with this company.

~~~
sharken
Good move, Valve are gamers at heart while Facebook is out to get your data
and make as much money possible from it.

~~~
AlexandrB
Valve is also private. Theoretically they have more leeway to make short-term
unprofitable decisions without having to answer to public shareholders.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
Theoretically, but their history suggests they won't. This is the company that
made gaming on Linux viable, has a platform open to all VR hardware, and lets
people sell keys on alternative stores without even taking a cut even though
they are clearly in a very dominant market position.

They have their faults, but acting like a modern big tech company isn't one of
them.

------
peanut_worm
How much longer until we need to login to use create-react-app

~~~
shadowgovt
That would be difficult to enforce, since React is open-source. It'd take ten
seconds for someone to fork it.

------
troydavis
Anyone care to guess how long before this happens to Instagram and/or Whatsapp
accounts? Could be a year or could be 5 years -- it's not if, just when.

------
AltruisticGap2
It's good to know before the updated Oculus Quest comes out.

Personally it doesn't bother me immensely... however it's annoying that I'd
have to review, check and double check all the privacy settings before using
the device as I don't expect any of the defaults to keep my activity private.

I'll probably opt for using my Oculus account another 2 years, at which point
I'll likely have bought another headset.

------
saos
Talking of login. I’ve just tried to login to EBay app using Google
authentication. I have 2 step verification turned on. It now specifically
requires gmail app to access the verification code. It no longer supports
Apple mail app. Is this a sick joke?

The only way around it was to send the verification code via tex. I'm so
concerned now that Google will only send verification codes to Android device
in the future.

~~~
mlindner
I recently switched from using Chrome to Firefox. Next on my list is probably
to try to wean myself off of using Google search. Getting my email off gmail
is going to be harder and not sure what the best way to do that is.

~~~
kube-system
Get a second email -- potentially at your own domain so you are never again
locked to any particular service -- and use it in conjunction with gmail. Sign
up any new accounts to your new email, and slowly migrate others as you see
fit. After a year or two, your gmail will only receive spam, and anything
important will be in your new account.

~~~
mlindner
The "own domain" is the hard part here. I've never owned one and figuring that
all out takes time. Even more so getting all the email server configuration
figured out.

~~~
kube-system
It's super easy. Pick a registrar, find a name that exists, and pay the
~$15/yr.

If you pick a mail service that lets you bring your own domain, they almost
all have step-by-step guides to configure it. It's a half-dozen settings to
copy/paste.

Using your own domain certainly isn't a requirement, but it lets you easily
get out of this situation without any trouble if your next provider decides to
do something you don't like.

------
techer
I have been recommending the Quest but that’s all over.

------
pratio
Sometimes I wish Facebook should at-least try to prove us wrong. These are
trying times with everyone being paranoid about how their data is mishandled,
shared, used and for good reason. What is so difficult in giving users the
option to connect their Facebook accounts if they wish because lets be honest
so users might just want to but making it mandatory is only going to hurt the
gaming community.

------
throwaway287391
I haven't used FB in a while, but are there any real barriers stopping people
from making fake/alt FB accounts for this purpose? If not, that seems like a
pretty easy way to just not care about any of this to me. (Or was there a
theory that FB wasn't already logging everything you did on an Oculus before
they started making logins mandatory?)

------
Baeocystin
Pretty much exactly what I was afraid of when they were first acquired, and
what they initially promised they wouldn't do. Looks like the success of the
Quest has emboldened the reinholders. That as of this posting, 100% of the
comments are a variation of 'WTF', it's pretty telling they felt they could
get away with it regardless.

------
KingOfCoders
Have a Rift S, left FB several years ago, now forced to go back in the future.
I hate you FB. Will not buy Oculus again.

------
tantalor
I made an FB account just for Oculus apps that need it. It has no personal
information about me except email address.

~~~
hammock
Isn't it against Facebook TOS to have more than one Facebook account, or to
open a Facebook account for someone/thing that isn't a real person?

~~~
speedgoose
Worst case they delete his Facebook account and he can create a new one.

~~~
ericd
Are his game purchases tied to the deleted FB account?

------
jugg1es
The comments on the original article seem to indicate that only facebook
thought this was a good change haha.

------
jokoon
I still have a hard time understanding what kind of value can be extracted
from user data.

Who uses this data? For what purpose? How can this data give an edge to make
money elsewhere?

Is there a real relationship between data collection and ability to sell more
things and increase profits? I'm not seeing it.

------
leshenka
That's wonderful. I tried to create an account on FB last week. I don't know
why, but it got suspended _immediately_. Tried again with different info -
suspended.

I didn't even wanted a FB account in the first place, but now I wonder why I
can't do that

------
dannykwells
Everyone, I think it's time that we acknowledge that Facebook may have a
_slight_ tendency to deceptively invade users privacy and never ever keep any
promise it makes. Nothing to worry about but just ya know, good to be aware
of. /s

------
CarbyAu
Kid who didn't know better changes mind when new information is realised.

Not worth vilifying. Not worth accolades for basic rational thought.

Palmer is meh. As other comments have pointed out, don't waste energy on the
scapegoat.

Complain about the people in control - Facebook.

------
OkGoDoIt
I’ve been wanting to buy an Oculus Quest since lockdown started, but I’ve been
having trouble finding one in stock for a reasonable price. I guess I’m glad I
didn’t succeed in purchasing one, and now I won’t be buying one at all.

~~~
baby
I’m moving out and selling mine if you’re in the bay

------
surfsvammel
I don’t have a Facebook account. My birthday wishlist just got one item
shorter :(

------
ninkendo
Why do I need to "Log in" to a VR headset?

The tech industry has gotten rather silly.

------
makach
Wait.. Some games are rated 7 years, my kid is old enough to play the games
and currently has his own account but he is not allowed to be on Facebook. How
will this work?

Next VR headset will not be Oculus.

~~~
daveoc64
Most of the major VR headset companies (Oculus, HTC, Sony) do not advise that
children under 13 use VR. You have to be 13 to sign up for a Facebook account
- although I'm not sure if you meant "not allowed" in the sense that you won't
let him sign up for an account.

A game's age rating only covers the suitability of the content in the game in
terms of things like violence, strong language etc. It does not imply that the
game is aimed at or would be enjoyed by a particular age range. There is no
special consideration for VR in terms of age ratings.

------
john4534243
I have invested heavily learning react and react native and i don't have(or
want) facebook account. I will remind this incident in the future before
investing time in any thing related to facebook.

~~~
stjohnswarts
Isn't react open source though? Why would you care about the source of it if
it serves your purpose? Facebook doesn't make any money off react or as far as
I know use it for political leverage. Can you point out why you'd quit using a
technology because the person/company behind it is "bad" ? The Nazis improved
rocket technology tremendously during WW2 and we didn't toss that knowledge
because the Nazis invented it.

~~~
john4534243
Its not just about the react being opensource. Its the philosophy that drives
the ecosystem. Facebook can come up with a react component for VR on the
browser which work's really well only with facebook account.

------
ipsin
I'm curious -- I have a Facebook account, but I have the app platform
disabled.

It seems that the app platform may be used for managing logins on third party
sites. Are they likely to require it for Oculus devices?

------
broknbottle
Welp I won’t be buying any future Oculus devices. I’ve got a Rift and enjoy it
but I have no intentions of creating a Facebook account. I deleted mine back
in like 2010-2011 and haven’t looked back.

------
jansan
This was not required before? When I got my Oculus Quest a at the end of June
I found no other way to log in but create a facebook account. This account is
now only used for the Oculus Quest.

------
ravroid
Saw that coming. As a user of the original Oculus Rift headset, I will
definitely be upgrading to a non-Oculus headset within the next 2 years
(before Facebook accounts become mandatory).

------
laksdjfkasljdf
Honest question: you bought a device that depends on an "app store" to work.
What exactly did you expect?

\-- from someone waiting for VR to become a commodity hardware, like a
monitor.

------
mabbo
I just bought a new gaming PC powerful to be usable with an Oculus. I have
some cash handy from a stock sale as well. I was _really_ considering one.

That's never going to happen now.

------
zajio1am
What this even mean? Oculus device is a hardware, has some drivers, supporting
software, and applications. What exactly requires user to login in order to
work? Drivers?

------
2fast4you
As soon as I needed a Facebook account to use the social features, I bailed.
Thankfully I was fortunate enough to buy a Valve Index. SteamVR is a much
nicer platform anyways

------
riskyfive
I guess there are still other brands who sell headsets :/

------
ChrisMarshallNY
I'm actually surprised this wasn't a requirement before now. I'd always
assumed that Oculus was really just a new way to "onboard users."

~~~
techer
Required for arena before - I would not buy one if this was mandatory to turn
it on.

------
yial
Well, as someone who has been social media free since 2015 this really just
encourages my feeling that I must not need one. (Even though I want some VR
setup )

~~~
grillvogel
you are literally posting on social media right now

------
jiofih
Good thing the Reverb G2 is right around the corner!

------
UMetaGOMS
I very nearly bought an Oculus Quest recently due to some glowing reviews,
despite my strong anti-FB feelings. So very glad I hesitated.

------
eggy
Glad I bought my HTC Vive Cosmos. I was going to wait for the Oculus to be
back in stock, but I didn't. I gave up FB 6 years ago.

------
neycoda
Sounds like Facebook doesn't know how to make money with Oculus unless they
require people to log into Facebook to use it.

------
k__
_" If you are an existing user and choose not to merge your accounts, you can
continue using your Oculus account for two years."_

Phew

~~~
bussierem
As someone noted above -- that 2 years is the statutory warranty period for
the EU.

They are setting that time limit so existing users can't call to return Oculus
saying "I don't agree to these terms" because _they aren't terms yet_ for that
user. But by the time they finally require you to log in with the account, it
will be impossible to refund because you are outside the legal warranty period
for both US and EU.

It's planned exactly to trap people who already bought so that some percentage
will "give in" and just log into Facebook so that they don't suddenly have a
VR device (and VR library) that's not worth anything to them anymore.

There are far more people who will do this than those that won't, and that's a
portion that COULD have returned it if Facebook was allowing them to.

~~~
robert_tweed
It's worth noting that the statutory warranty period in the UK is 5-6 years
(depending on which country), not 2 years as is the minimum required by the
EU.

So it might be interesting to see how this plays out here, although I'm not
holding out a lot of hope for a positive result.

------
lbj
Guess I have 2 years until my Rift goes in the bin. Hopefully there'll be
something even nicer out by then.

------
slenk
Welp...I now have an Oculus Rift S for sale.

------
bookofjoe
We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Palmer Luckey hadn't persevered
and created the Oculus.

------
apazzolini
I'm tired of saying fuck Facebook on HN threads, but man, fuck Facebook.

If I ever move my racing sim rig to VR, it's definitely not going to be an
Oculus.

~~~
halfFact
This really is no surprise. So many threads on the front page shocked at the
evils of Facebook and Apple.

All were predicted given their past record.

Don't buy from bad companies and this isn't an issue.

~~~
Ace17
... except when the non-bad company you bought your DK-1 from gets bought by a
bad company.

~~~
ahartmetz
Non-bad companies could set up "will not get bought by Facebook" poison pills.
Say they will release all IP to the public domain when acquired by Facebook.
Enforceable contract with a third party.

------
monadic2
Is this a surprise to literally anyone? If you buy into a corporate platform
you get a corporate platform.

------
dilly_bar
Zero chance I'd buy an Oculus now.

------
realistcake
I don't see what the fuss is about. Why shouldn't Facebook try to provide the
best user experience possible? We live in an increasingly connected world, so
this tight integration between different products is absolutely critical to a
positive user experience. Would people complain if any other company added
Facebook login to their product? No!

------
LeicaLatte
I assumed Facebook had already done this. Users are so naive for assuming it
would never happen.

------
numlock86
I just bought an Oculus Quest and now feel bad about it. Sadly there are no
real alternatives.

------
mazatta
I knew this was coming eventually, but I am definitely selling my Rift after
this announcement.

------
coldwaraaron
Alright, then I’ll be selling this Rift S and getting an Index after all. Fuck
Facebook.

------
james_s_tayler
Need to log in to Facebook to use VR.

It just doesn't even make sense.

FB is too entrenched in our lives. And for what?

------
kmfrk
What a trip this has been from the Kickstarter to its acquisition to this
situation.

------
IAmGraydon
I was looking forward to purchasing the next generation of Oculus gear. Oh
well.

------
libraryatnight
I was waffling between VR setups, looks like I can take Oculus off the list.

------
redbeed
Good that i bought a index.

------
barnabee
Cool, this makes choosing my next VR headset upgrade easier: not Oculus.

------
Razengan
Why? Even Apple doesn't require an Apple ID to use their devices.

------
ozten
This looks like a great opportunity for pine64 to make a wireless 6DOF headset
(Quest clone)

They already ship a mobile phone.
[https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/](https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/)

------
Bhilai
I think there is a lot of benefit from unifying various identities and
identity stacks. You can put all the investment in improving one identity
platform instead of trying to maintain a user identity for every acquisition
you make.

------
joenathanone
I am going to sell my Rift and buy a Vive, HTC from here out!

------
superkuh
I'm shocked that anyone is surprised by this. It was immediately obvious that
this move was the only reason for Facebook to buy Oculus in 2014. If you fell
for promises, well, hopefully this has been a learning experience.

------
wnevets
So glad I never bought an oculus. Is anyone really suprised?

------
phone8675309
I guess I know what company to not buy any VR hardware from.

------
knolax
A little misleading since apparently the Facebook account is only acting as a
replacement for an Oculus account. It's not like they're forcing Facebook
logins on a device that required no logins.

------
croes
That kills the possibility of selling your account.

------
leafboi
Make fake facebook account. All problems solved.

------
electrondood
Making a lot of expensive bricks just like that.

------
tiagobraw
yeap, there goes my changes of having an Oculus (never had a facebook account
and won't)... Guess one less option then...

------
twox2
I just changed my mind about getting an Oculus.

------
azifalix
No Facebook, and therefore no oculus needed..

------
Carmack77
Andrew Reisse is rolling in his grave right now. This is disgusting and not
what he wanted and disrespectful to everything he worked toward. I am ashamed
of Oculus.

------
fomine3
It's completely expected since acquisition but FUCK. The problem is that
there's little competitor for standalone VR and platform's openess.

------
xwdv
People will bitch and complain, but at the end of the day, there’s no better
device for untethered VR that you can take and setup anywhere.

~~~
Aerroon
That just means there is no device for untethered VR. I think this is more
likely to just limit VR adoption more than anything else.

~~~
mynameisvlad
The general public doesn't give two shits about privacy and the amount of data
that Facebook collects. They'll gladly go along with this to continue playing
their games.

What this _really_ means is that there is no untethered VR device _for
privacy-minded folks_ which make up a tiny portion of the overall VR users.

~~~
grumple
I think the general public does care about privacy. How many people illegally
smoke weed? Millions easily. Those people care about privacy.

And there are plenty of people who aren't techies who still don't want all
their info going to facebook.

------
arbirk
Damn. Best alternative to the Rift S?

------
tacotacotaco
This is effectively ransomware. If you do not agree with the new eula Facebook
will deactivate your otherwise working hardware.

------
downshun
Well. Another lost customer here.

------
monadic2
Are the devices any good?

------
stuartd
Please excuse my lame pun:

> foc-u-lus

------
hans_castorp
I wonder if this is even legal in the EU, given the GDPR laws that prohibit
sending customer data to the USA.

------
romille
Software is soft

------
gd2
Don't like

------
xadhominemx
Who cares?

------
oxymoran
Death to Facebook

------
donohoe
TLDR;

Facebook to Oculus Users: Go f* yourself.

------
fizzled
This is my biggest fear: no longer being able to create individual accounts
that are not Oauth'd through social media. I don't think my bank will require
facebook any time soon, but I hope laws are in place to prevent it when the
time comes. Sen. Wyden, I hope you're listening.

~~~
jojobas
Why do you even need an account? It's a display after all, I don't need an
account to use my external monitor, keyboard or anything else.

~~~
pornel
Oculus has an app store, and Quest is a standalone device (mobile phone
hardware on your face).

It's understandable to need an account for these things, but of course this
being an FB account is creepy.

~~~
Lycake
I can understand the store aspect (even though in a perfect world you could
buy apps and games without DRM and having to log in), but why would you need
an account because something is a standalone device? What's the difference if
there is a cable attached?

~~~
pornel
Quest is not a screen. It's a computer with a built-in screen. iMac for your
face. Quest with a link cable is still not a screen, but a computer running a
kind of "remote desktop" software.

The computer part needs an account. Virtually all software for it is paid, and
it is genuinely helpful for non-technical users to have a "cloud" account that
ensures they won't lose their games even if they sell or break the device.

~~~
jojobas
If IBM was able to pull this off with their PC/AT/PS/2 family, we'd still be
in stone age.

Anybody with more than 2 brain cells should demand open standard hardware to
be used with software of choice.

------
asldkjaslkdj
I was starting to look into VR and I guess this crosses Oculus off the list. I
don't intend to ever have a Facebook account.

------
carabiner
@dang, fix typo in headline? Faceboo _o_ k.

~~~
dang
Whoa, how'd we miss that? Fixed noow.

------
jerianasmith01
Nice information

------
Nginx487
Fun fact: most of the people need neither Facebook nor Oculus.

~~~
fsflover
Also, most of the people do not need freedom of speech directly, but rely on
it without knowing. Similar story here. See also:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came..](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came..).

~~~
Nginx487
Sure we need. That's why boycotting products of the violator, nevermind
Facebook or China, is one of the easiest and efficient forms of protesting and
opposing violations.

------
craftoman
Last time I created a fresh account I got banned. Didn't use any VPN, my email
was a fresh Gmail address and I didn't use any fake picture or send any friend
request.

------
benbristow
I'm amazed so many people care. Not having a Facebook account for me is social
suicide. Helps that Messenger is a very good messaging app and Facebook the
main site is a good timewaster. Make a throwaway one if you really despise
Facebook so much.

~~~
hans_castorp
Absolutely not.

------
antonf
Just ordered my Oculus Quest from Costco a week ago, and it's scheduled for
delivery today. And I have no problem using Facebook account. Yeah, my data
will be used for ads, so what? How is that such a big deal for some people to
sell the device they otherwise enjoy?

