
Don't let a single day pass without doing something towards your goal - nonzeroday
https://www.nonzeroday.com/philosophy
======
atemerev
The "chain method" is incredibly frustrating for me. After a first 2-3 slips I
tend to quit whatever I tried to start, with incredible feeling of guilt. And
slips are inevitable (the more I say I'll not slip this time, the more
inevitable they become).

So, I found something better: the accumulation method. I have a intermediate
goal of, say, 10,000 push-ups. If I'll do only 10 push-ups a day, it will take
me 1000 days to reach this goal — almost 3 years. Or I can do more — then I'll
get to it faster. There is no frustration, I can skip any days I want, but if
I want to reach this goal, I have to move forward.

~~~
renaudg
The problem is, doing more on some days to make up for others when you did
nothing is well known not to be as effective as consistent daily progress :
[http://jonkarpman.blogspot.co.uk/](http://jonkarpman.blogspot.co.uk/)

~~~
iQuercus
It's unwise to extrapolate from one domain into another that doesn't follow
the same models/rules.

If I walk 20 miles and my ultimate goal is to get to 10,000 miles, then 20
miles of effort translates into 20 miles of distance covered. It's a linear
one-to-one no frills relationship. The units don't even change.

But if I'm doing push ups, my goal of 10,000 is actually a proxy goal for
things like upper body strength and physical well being. In that context, the
biological impact of 20 push ups x 3 days ≠ 60 push ups x 1 day, and no push
ups the next two days.

------
kiloreux
As much as I like the idea and would love to use it, but I am not really
motivated by the fact that you are taking the money, you are not offering any
service, just using people's procrastination to make money, I don't know about
others but I really don't like that.

It could be much better if the user has to choose a charity that money goes
to, I understand that you also have costs for running this app, but I think I
will write my own app and besides that, it's not always about workouts, it
might be about reading , FOSS, self development, or whatever of that things,
would love if it had something like that.

~~~
pipedreams2
Currently working on a similar app and I definitely agree that if you're going
to be charging it should be towards a charity. This seems like a terrible cash
grab with something that does not even provide an enticing service.

~~~
nonzeroday
If you charge towards the charity then a user doesn't feel committed when
he/she slips.

~~~
hammock
To solve this, Stickk (a similar service) has "anti-charities."

StickK's list of 23 anti-charities (their anti-ness, of course, being in the
eye of each goal-setting beholder) includes: The George W. Bush Presidential
Library, the William Jefferson Clinton Presidential Library, the NRA, the
Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence, and various fan clubs of opposing
sports teams.

~~~
dreeves
Here's our (Beeminder's) argument against anti-charities, clever as that is:
[http://blog.beeminder.com/anticharity](http://blog.beeminder.com/anticharity)

------
lordelph
Similar to the Jerry Seinfeld "Don't break the chain" advice -
[http://lifehacker.com/281626/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-
se...](http://lifehacker.com/281626/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-secret)

EDIT: Wait, what? He never said this at all?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ujvrg/jerry_seinfeld...](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ujvrg/jerry_seinfeld_here_i_will_give_you_an_answer/ceiugt5)

~~~
jraedisch
There even is a web app based on it
[http://dontbreakthechain.com/](http://dontbreakthechain.com/) which I try to
improve right now with [https://markmyday.net](https://markmyday.net)

The latter doesn't require an account, lets you log some additional data and
is of course absolute beta. I really didn't plan to publish it yet, but I
haven't done anything else to reach my goal today.

~~~
jraedisch
Quick update:

The comment above brought me my first 36 potential test users.

Please drop me a line with suggestions, questions or feature requests!
[https://markmyday.net/imprint.html](https://markmyday.net/imprint.html)

Also, in case you see some promise in the app, be sure to bookmark it or add
it to your homescreen (adjust the title first). Thanks!

------
ryanmonroe
My main goal in life is to be happy. I have other goals, but if working on
them for the n-th straight day comes in conflict with my main goal, I'm gonna
take a day off.

~~~
sillysaurus3
Have you reached your main goal?

Any tips for reaching it?

~~~
Skunkleton
Isn't 'being happy' everyone's goal?

~~~
sillysaurus3
To varying degrees. Most people will sacrifice their own happiness for their
children's, for example. Or their spouse's, and so on.

Some people have not reached the goal, which is why I asked.

~~~
jraedisch
Isn't sacrificing their own happiness a little bit like happiness by proxy
then? Maybe that's too broad an interpretation. It leads to the (old) question
of whether there is true selflessness.

------
rl3
Cool project, but where's the money going in the event the user has a "Zero
Day" or otherwise fails to meet their deadline? I'm not trying to be
judgemental about where, just genuinely curious.

Also, it's probably a good idea for people to establish a bare minimum as to
what constitutes progress for them. Chronic procrastinators will simply pass
off even the most miniscule items as progress (I know; I am one). Granted,
that's not necessarily a bad thing if they're escaping the throes of
depression, but in normal situations such justifications may constitute
slacking.

~~~
nonzeroday
Thank you. User establishes their baseline of a Non Zero Day (5000 steps) per
day. If failed to achieve the goal they pay us money.

~~~
davemel37
I can't imagine long term sustainability for any business that depends on
their users failing.

I once heard a really smart marketer say that self-help is the best niche to
target because perfection is impossible, so once you get a customer, you have
one for life.

In reality though, any app or service that the business interests are
misaligned with the users best interests, can't keep users forever. The users
who benefit wont make you any money and the ones that fail will resent the
service and leave.

While I see where you are coming from, this is an extremely shortsighted
monetization strategy.

A better strategy would be gentle push reminders to not let the day go to
waste, tools to make it easier to see progress, and monetize with premium add-
ons.

~~~
dreeves
Here's our (Beeminder's) answer to that astute objection:
[http://blog.beeminder.com/perverse/](http://blog.beeminder.com/perverse/)

In short, our interests and our customers' interests turn out to be highly
aligned, even though it seems prima facie perverse.

Another way of arguing the point: a manufacturer of physical goods has the
perverse incentive to make pieces of crap that last just long enough to make
it out of the store. Ok, maybe that's commonplace enough that I'm totally not
helping my case with that analogy! :)

Ok, better argument! Beeminder has been around 4.5 years which probably
wouldn't happen if we were myopically making people fail to get their money.

~~~
davemel37
It seems to me that Beeminder has put a ton of thought and effort into the
experience that triggers a penalty with the user always in control. I see this
as much more flexible than the non zero day app. It also appears that
beeminder has a freemium offering and this payment/penalty is a feature more
than the whole point. In other words, I see the charges on beeminder to be
similar to paying for extra lives on candy crush as a one time in app
purchase... as opposed to model that the pricing gimmick is basically the core
offering.

Edit: cool app btw, gonna give it a try :)

~~~
dreeves
Hooray! New user! :) Our biggest issue right now is that we've gone so far
down the rabbit hole with our hardcore superfans that it's a little
overwhelming for newbees (as we call them; our 2nd biggest issue is our
obsession with bee puns).

So we'd be super grateful to hear about things you find
confusing/frustrating/offputting as you try setting up some goals.

Thanks again for trying us out!

------
truebosko
I used to try and follow this advice, but honestly -- Life gets in the way and
sometimes you indeed have to enjoy life.

Dropping your streak for a day or two won't hurt, as long as you hop back on.

------
bdevine
That's great and all, but when you've got multiple goals in multiple domains,
something is going to fall to the bottom, or, more likely, right off it. There
is only triage and its attendant guilt.

------
kafkaesq
The whole point about focus and discipline is that you shouldn't need someone
to track you and "make" you do positive things towards your goal. It should
come naturally.

Plus, apps like these can end up being counter-productive if they force us to
make some kind of token contribution (just to meet our "quota") but which may
actually move the project forward (and by jiggling context, may actually move
it backward).

------
inanutshellus
Funny, there was an April Fools website about 3 years ago that was exactly
this concept.

"Hey, pay us in escrow while you're still motivated and inspired, then we'll
rake ya when you falter. Bwahahaaaaaaaa!" (in a humorous way)

All of the links to sign up just popped up a "Just kidding! April Fools!"
link. My google-fu is weak, apparently... Not finding it now...

------
lucaspottersky
I wonder if there's a generic app to track good habits -- not just fitness.

For example, I'd like to track how many days I studied during the year.

Reading the comments I found:

\- [http://dontbreakthechain.com/](http://dontbreakthechain.com/)

\- [https://markmyday.net/](https://markmyday.net/)

Are there any fancier apps?

~~~
dreeves
Beeminder! And, yes, we have a whole blog post about why we're better than
Don't Break The Chain apps:
[http://blog.beeminder.com/seinfeld/](http://blog.beeminder.com/seinfeld/)

(That post also includes a link to what we think is the best Don't Break The
Chain app, if you decide the complexity of Beeminder's graphing -- not to
mention the whole commitment device angle -- is too much.)

------
aaroninsf
Spoken like someone without a family.

~~~
magic_beans
Even someone with a family can manage 10 minutes a day to work towards a goal.

~~~
marssaxman
I am really confused by this idea, because the author seems to assume that it
is so normal to have goals of a sort for which this service or technique might
be useful that it is not necessary to explain what those goals might be or why
they might matter so much.

I can think of literally nothing in my life for which this strategy would be
relevant: nothing significant enough to be classified as a primary goal in
life, such that it would be worth making a special effort to schedule my time
around it, which is still somehow trivial enough that routine daily action
would provide meaningful progress toward achieving it. The things I imagine as
goals for my life aren't generally things one can measure in the first place,
much less count as having definitively achieved or not achieved.

~~~
true_religion
If it's not too personal, I'm curious what your goals might be?

~~~
marssaxman
Happiness, generally. Being part of a mutually-supporting community. Remaining
open to new things so that life can continue to surprise me. Learning
everything that can possibly be learned about everything there is to know.
Understanding myself, understanding the people close to me. Using my
(reliably!) good luck and high tolerance for risk not just to entertain
myself, but to help blaze a trail so that people who have more to lose can
still make it up to the frontier and help build an awesome future.

Career-wise, it would feel good to have contributed significantly to some
piece of systems infrastructure that serves to distribute power over
information away from big industry or government organizations and toward
individual people. Pursuing this goal has generally conflicted with the goal
of living a happy life, and I don't know whether that is merely happenstance
or due to some intrinsic conflict in these goals. Perhaps I simply haven't
found my moment yet; perhaps I never will. I'm going to keep my eyes open for
opportunities in this direction but I don't know whether I will ever be able
to realize this goal. It isn't really about me, it's about the world around me
and whether other people want to do what I think we'd all be happier doing.

------
dreeves
Congratulations on the launch! Just added you to our list of fellow commitment
device apps:
[http://blog.beeminder.com/competitors](http://blog.beeminder.com/competitors)

(We're genuinely delighted to have more competitors! Check out the "Sushi and
Green Fields" section of that blog post.)

------
TheGRS
This is a variation on the idea that you need to show up every day. Send some
e-mails, talk to your loved ones, write some code, cook dinner, go on a jog,
etc. Being goal-focused helps a lot, but I think the secret is to always show
up.

------
dorfsmay
FWIW this rendered poorly on both chrome and Firefox on my android phone. The
first 4 or 5 chars on the left hand side were cut off. I had tobuse the little
book thingy in Firefox in order to be able to read it.

------
shubhamjain
The philosophy hits the nail in terms of battling procrastination. It doesn't
burden you with guilt of not doing enough but just tell you to make an effort
to take the first step which will make you take the second. Sadly, where it
can fail is same as where it succeeds - It is easy to slack off another day,
if you slack off on one.

There is no magic pill for procrastination that will fix everyone's problems
even if you follow every productive hack out there.

------
canistr
Rather unfortunate that you must sign in with a fitness app. Any way around
this? I don't really want to connect my Jawbone/FitBit account to a random
app.

------
elchief
That sounds exhausting

~~~
cortesoft
Seriously. Zero days are my favorite days!

------
aytekin
I have been doing this using browser startup tabs. Since I open the browser
only once in the morning when I come to the office, I will launch the browser
and review all the tabs and remember to do things. [http://lifehacker.com/use-
your-browsers-startup-settings-to-...](http://lifehacker.com/use-your-
browsers-startup-settings-to-help-form-habits-1520690736)

------
Palomides
so... a minimalist beeminder?

~~~
pessimizer
Or just a clone.

------
jqm
Sometimes not working towards a goal for a day gets me closer than working
badly towards goal. And sometimes, waiting until the moment is right is better
than trying to seize the moment.

It's a very fine line though and can become a good excuse not to get things
done or let circumstance drive us around. But I for one do not believe in
working on a goal every day. Just most days.

------
GregBuchholz
I wonder what people's thoughts are on Scott Adam's "Systems vs. Goals"
approach? It would see compatible with a mini-habit approach.

[http://blog.dilbert.com/post/102964992706/goals-vs-
systems](http://blog.dilbert.com/post/102964992706/goals-vs-systems)

------
Mikhail_Edoshin
If it's just a punishment, then it's not going to work well. Rewards are a
better way to get going. Punishment may be a way to break a bad habit, but
it's not the way to build up a good one. And inducing guilt negates whatever
gains you get and then some.

------
swalsh
I use Githubs tracker (though its a private repo), though half the days I
don't have code to submit. So if its something like I wrote some emails, or
did some data analysis, or similar I'll add that to the repo and commit it.
Just so i can get the streak credit.

------
zerooneinfinity
The real trick is breaking your goals down as small as possible. Then
accomplishing those tasks building up to your ultimate goal. Most people fail
or get frustrated/give-up because they define their goals in terms of end
goals.

------
omaranto
A less extreme version of the Stephen King story _Quitters, Inc._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quitters,_Inc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quitters,_Inc).

------
zodPod
Am I missing something? Your website doesn't really say anything aside from
explaining the base principle then it tells me to sign in and let you handle
it for me? Seems like it needs more info.

------
ativzzz
Similar to [https://gofuckingdoit.com/](https://gofuckingdoit.com/)

------
smhg
This isn't really readable on Chrome on Android. Seems like a viewport related
issue.

------
astrange
I expected this to be some kind of manifesto about security disclosures.

------
js8
What if my goal changes every day (although they repeat after a while)?

------
Ensorceled
It's borked. 404's for multiple js files ...

------
iconjack
This is great! Today I already got 1/4 of the way toward my goal. Tomorrow
I'll get 1/9 done, the next day 1/16 and so on. Slow and steady wins the race!

------
Kinnard
You should add support for pomotodo.

------
smegel
Are you allowed to take holidays?

------
mikearagua
More really stupid shit at the top of hacker news. Thanks guys.

