

Ask HN: How do you go about finding designers? - pyronicide

Through the plethora of projects that I work on, there always seems to be one general question that comes up: Where in the world will I find someone to make this look good?<p>Asking around, it appears that this is a pretty common problem. Does anyone have any tips on ways to get involved with the designer community or specific designers?
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mdasen
Get friends who are artsy.

In all seriousness, I like working with a designer rather than hiring one.
Part of it is how one sees design. Is design something you can just purchase?
If so, isn't code just something you can purchase? I think that part of the
reason we're here is that we realize that you can't just buy your way out of
code problems. Code is important, it takes dedication and hard work not the
fulfillment of some sort of spec list.

The same is true, in my personal opinion, of design. The design and
interactions that users are going to experience are of a lot of importance.
It's not that hard to find a designer who will work with you on a project. The
key is to treat them like a partner rather than someone who is doing some
lower form of work that you don't really need, but will make it look flashier
to users. Even if you don't have money, it's possible to get people to come on
if they're a partner in the project. I mean, artsy people really understand
not getting paid (especially if you're in the same not getting paid boat).
They don't understand being belittled and unappreciated - really, who does?

So, respect, partnership and working together can go a long way on random
projects that probably won't amount to much. There are lots of sites like
<http://99designs.com> where you can get people to compete on spec. It feels a
bit cold to me - as if once a design is made, it's done. I prefer a more
continual improvement thing.

I'm not saying 99designs doesn't serve a good purpose. It's just not my style.
I also have a lot of artsy friends so it might be easier for me than you. If
you can find someone who is good at graphic design and understands user
experience, data layout, etc. it's awesome.

~~~
marcusbooster
With all due respect, that is what hiring a designer is all about. The biggest
complaint from actual designers about sites like 99designs is that design is
an iterative process not an off-the-shelf product.

Relying on your artsy friends for design makes about as much sense as relying
on your techie friends to build a website. Maybe you can get a favor if you
happen to have a connection, but it certainly doesn't scale for a long term
business decision.

That said, you can look at portfolio type sites like <http://sortfolio.com/>
to get an idea of style. Find one to your liking and see what their rates are.
It's like talking to a tattoo artist about an idea versus buying one off the
wall.

~~~
mdasen
I guess I was assuming that these weren't _serious_ web sites. Like, the OP
said that they worked on a plethora of projects which sounded, to me, like
lots of little side projects. I think it's ideal to work with artsy friends on
those just like you'd work with techie friends. If you're doing something
serious, clearly it's an employment thing not a buddy thing. However,
sometimes you're doing a nice little project in your spare time and it's nice
to build it with a friend who has a good visual sensibility and if it doesn't
take off you've both spent some hours working on something cool and if it does
take off you can continue working together.

------
oneplusone
If you want somebody to make your website look good, then you are looking for
an artist. If you want somebody to make it work well, give it an appropriate
aesthetic for the subject matter, and add more polish in general then you want
a designer.

The first can be found on many sites including 99designs.com. Finding the
latter is much harder. Lots and lots of networking is probably your best bet.
As a ui designer I can say that there are no specific designer events you will
find me at. Most design events focus on print design, and multimedia design is
a synonym for Flash in the design world.

If you do do a job posting don't call the position web designer. Call it
interface designer or ux designer. The applicants you get should be much more
qualified.

~~~
kyoji
Agreed, especially the sentiment that multimedia design is synonymous with
Flash in the design world.

Interface/UX design is severally un-recgonized by large organizations like the
AIGA, and most 'web-design' discussion centers around designerly portfolio
sites, long pages mimicking print design, and of course Flash sites.

As a designer with an interest in CS I find myself constantly torn between two
worlds, since most people on the design side don't care much for the CS and
most people on the CS side don't care much for Paul Rand's or Pete Modrian's.

------
pmjoyce
I've tried all sorts in the past from Elance to 99designs. The problem with
both is the same - communicating the idea and lack of real buy-in. Elance was
difficult because of the differences in timezone and language barriers.
99designs - well, I was quite enthused by the idea to begin with - I didn't
really understand the concerns of the no-spec movement. After posting 2/3
projects there I can safely say I'll never use them again. The amount of
effort you need to put in responding to a bunch of people who only half get
what your trying to say (if you're lucky) and who don't really share your
vision or have much invested in you and the working relationship is quite
overwhelming. I'd advise against spec work for these reasons, and that the
quality of the work is poor in comparison to designers who listen to your
vision and buy in.

I feel quite fortunate as I've since managed to find a smallish (but growing)
agency not to far from where I live that I couldn't be happier with. For the
past couple of projects I've met them face-to-face where we've talked over
goals and ideas while they presented options and suggestions. They're not
afraid to call me out when I'm being too prescriptive but they make an effort
to understand. What I like most of all is the working relationship, the
communication and, above all, the quality of the finished product.

I found them by searching for designers within driving distance of where I
live, digging through lots of portfolios trying to get a sense of whose work I
enjoyed most and whether I thought I could afford it.

If you're having difficulty coming up with a shortlist <http://sortfolio.com/>
by the 37signals guys might be a good starting point; you can restrict
agencies by geographic location and budget.

------
allisbe
Most good designers will reject the idea that their job is simply "making
things look good." A good designer will want to work with you early on in the
development process. Try looking for local design groups in your area (ixda,
refreshing cities, local computer-human interaction groups, etc.). Design !=
art, look for designers who talk more about user interaction/experience than
photoshop.

------
blizkreeg
I'm a left-brained person for the most part but by observing patterns and best
practices on other well-designed sites, I literally learned my way through
producing (above average to good) design for my projects. See ijiny.com and
ekcoffee.com

I don't suggest this if you're looking to move fast as it's not easy, takes
time, and a healthy resistance to frustration but I feel good that I could
produce something that looks good _and_ is functional.

Also, if you designed it yourself, it's so much more convenient to make
changes and experiment. I don't have to bug a freelance designer for the
smallest of changes.

Ui should be simple. And while simple is not easy to get to, once you get
there, it adds a whole another dimension to your skills and expertise. Once
you have the essentials down, it's a smoother ride.

~~~
Sindrome
I'm starting this process right now. I'm sick of being so dependent on
designers. Design is everywhere these days not just on the web. This
disposable coffee cup which I am going to trash in a few seconds even has
fancy design on it. The coffee holder even has a advertisement on it.

Whenever I build something, no one cares about the code, features, or
performance. All they care about is how it looks.

------
MDX
My company does UI/Design and usability testing for developers (as well as
development for designers/ad agencies).

Although I tend to work more on the development side of things I can tell you
that finding competent, knowledgeable designers who understand how to create
usable interfaces that will help increase conversion rates and still look
appealing to the target market is no easy task.

We interviewed about 100 designers before we found a few that understood that
design needs to support business objectives and solve business problems (like
how do we get more sign-ups directly from our home page?)

Many of the designers out there are simply focused on making
websites/interfaces that look good but don't actually support business
objectives or customer needs.

The best designers take a problem solving approach instead of a purely
aesthetic one. So when interviewing them be sure to ask plenty of "problem
solving" type questions. This will help you weed out the "artsy" types from
the serious designers.

One more piece of advice: stay away from sites like 99designs etc since the
only designers on there seem to be ones who are just starting out and have
very little experience solving real world problems. 99Designs may be great for
small mom and pop outfits (think local deli, florist, etc) but it doesn't work
well for serious start ups that will need to launch with an interface
optimized for conversions.

If you are looking for a rock solid design team that also understands the
development process, give me a shout. We're currently wrapping up some work
for another incubator.

------
hajrice
Hey, I'm a designer. hajrice@gmail.com I had a post on HN recently. Anyway,
here's a few samples of what I've done last week.

<http://imgur.com/KRbNx.jpg> <http://imgur.com/w8S4A.jpg>
<http://imgur.com/DlHDb.jpg> <http://imgur.com/qfhbv.jpg>
<http://imgur.com/KedPg.jpg>

~~~
mdolon
I hope this is not in poor form but I too am a freelance UI
designer/developer. From the HN crowd, I did some work for raffi (designed
FeedbackArmy and AfterTheDeadline). My portfolio is at <http://mdolon.com/>
and my blog is <http://devgrow.com/>.

~~~
hajrice
I like your stuff. We should work together.

~~~
mdolon
I'd definitely be interested, hit me up on GMail and we can discuss it further
(mdolon at gmail).

------
eddorre
I don't know why this is question is asked so much, really.

Ask yourself this, "Where do you go about finding programmers?"

A good answer for this is usually at local meet up groups. Programmers don't
have a monopoly on such things.

Some ideas for local meet ups:

<http://refreshingcities.org>

Full disclosure: I'm a co-founder of Refresh Portland
(<http://refreshportland.org>)

<http://www.ixda.org/> <http://www.sigchi.org/> <http://webdesign.meetup.com/>

For example, we recently had Jared Spool speak for free at Oregon's chapter of
SIGCHI, CHIFOO. It was free and jam packed with around 180+ designers.

I'm sure that there are a quite a few groups where designers go to gather and
talk about topics that are important to them.

So, my advice is to go to a designer meet up and mingle. Even if you don't
find a designer right away, just tell them about your project and they might
know a friend of a friend.

~~~
pyronicide
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I didn't even know that designer
meetups existed. Thanks!

------
lzimm
I'm quitting my job at the end of the month and can mercenary out for anyone
here (sorry about the plug :( i'm quitting my job at the end of the month,
more as a consequence of hating it rather than having a clear lineup of shit i
wanna do to sustain me)

do design/dev/ux/strat/whatever/i pet my cat

<http://www.lzimm.com>

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srik1234
I've used elance for finding designers. Though it worked out for me, it is not
guaranteed that we always hook up with a good designer. I think we've to make
sure that portfolio is decent and also make sure you write terms and
conditions with low upfront fee/very close 1st milestone with at least 1 web
page design. If you feel that it is not going in the right direction, dont
hesitate to back out. I think the first few days of design activity is crucial
and you need to make sure you've interacted sufficiently with the designer,
before cutting the relationship.

obviously, if you find someone good, hang on to that relationship.

------
andrewstuart
I put an ad for graphic designers on a local job board for a short term web
design contract and got plenty of applicants. I also browsed istockphoto and
directly contacted designers whose work I liked.

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fabiandesimone
I'm faced with this problem everyday.

I have posted in Freelance Switch with good results.

You can check this designer for example: <http://www.lorenzociglioni.com>
(based in Rome, really cool guy)

Other than that you can check out <http://www.sortfolio.com> (form the
37signals folks)

I'm sure that in HN are a few.

------
eagleal
I'm also freelancing, looking to bootstrap one day. I'm an UI/UX designer.
Feel free to contact me design ATpmura.com, or just have a look at my works
<http://www.pmura.com/labs>.

Fortunately or unfortunately for you, I'm the type of guy who likes to be
involved during the development process (even from the idea/concept if
possible).

------
jseifer
Pick a designer/firm you like, work with them on a project or two and try to
keep sending work if it goes well. If they're not available take
recommendations. To throw out a couple of references, I've been very happy
with domo (<http://okdomo.com>) and TwoGuys (<http://weretwoguys.com/>).

~~~
elight
Seeing as Dave Browning (half of We're Two Guys) works with us (We Are Titans,
<http://wearetitans.net>), I'll second that.

------
mickeyben
I worked recently with <http://www.justalab.com/> \- I totally recommend them
!

------
shadowz
Go through sortfolio or websites like that and pick out a style you like. Many
agencies stick with one style. One of the examples is Metalab. I'm sure you
all know their style. We do more of a modern minimalistic style at
<http://www.designvetica.com>

------
larrywright
In addition to Sortfolio, which has been mentioned by others, check out the
work on <http://dribbble.com/> \- there are some really great designers
posting their work there. Shouldn't be too hard to find one whose work you
like.

Edit: Fixed the link.

~~~
masterj
There are three b's in dribbble :)

<http://dribbble.com/>

------
brm
I'll say it, as long as you realize that the "make this look good" part is on
equal footing with the app development and are willing to compensate them as
such... you can find them on <http://collabfinder.com>

------
khandelwal
I'd love an answer for this too.

I asked in a post on HackerNews for a designer earlier this week and received
no comments or responses. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1363053>

------
f1gm3nt
The way I find designers is I have been friends with one for awhile so he does
a lot of my work. I ask him and he gives me a list of people. So always ask
designers who they know and keep a contact list ;p

------
subpixel
This doesn't look so active, but it might hold promise:
<http://collabfinder.com/designers/>

------
bgnm2000
I'm a designer - find plenty of us on drawar.

------
patricia
word of mouth referral, always. If i can outsource, i absolutely will. it can
save a lot of $. if i work U.S. based read proposals carefully. lots of
developers charge in three hour blocks and will ding you for three hours to
put a line of code from google analytics on a site -- which takes 3 minutes.

------
someone_here
How much do you pay good designers per hour? I find many times designers are
under appreciated.

~~~
charleyrock
Its a really tough question. I have tried many of the routes suggested above.
Elance, 99design and carbonmade. None of the experiences were great - elance
and 99design work well for one off projects such as logo design and both
vehicles provide many cost effective solutions, but designers are often in
other countries in different time-zones and may speak different languages and
the result is often poor communication, difficulty setting/meeting deadlines
and lack of real understanding and buy-in from the designer.

Carbonmade is higher end and really just provides portfolios of design work to
peruse and contact information - I found the hit rate on making contact to be
very low and ultimately ran into communication/timing/buy-in problems here
too.

Short of engaging a design cofounder/partner/employee, your best bet is to use
a site like carbonmade to try to find someone local and to meet face to face
and establish a relationship with the designer - difficult unless you are in
NYC or LA/SF or other design hubs.

I echo the sentiment that design is critical.

Good luck.

------
kapitti
<http://pick.im/>

------
tripngroove
<http://portfolios.aiga.org/>

<http://www.behance.net/>

------
alsomike
I'm a designer by day, but I'd be up to do some freelance work -- altojunk @
gmail.

