

Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it) - cliftonmckinney
http://chiefpieguy.tumblr.com/post/36198092182/why-recruiters-exist-and-what-to-do-about-it

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tomisthemovie
I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a
recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare
time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate,
who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it
a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my
life. But I also do it because it makes me better at my job. If I can
understand a company's requirements better than 90% of other recruiters
ringing them up, then that benefits them, the candidate whose CV I'm
representing, and me.

Now, I know that a lot of developers have had bad experiences with recruiters.
I've had bad experiences with recruiters, when I was looking for a job out of
university. You see, in the UK at least, a lot of recruitment consultants are
graduates like me who couldn't find a relevant job in their field of interest,
or one that bore any relationship to their degree. So instead we got caught up
in the recruitment industry, which offers a salary, office experience, and the
potential to (allegedly)earn some money. The majority of us are as confused as
you are as to why we're here, but those of us who are still doing it after 3
months are probably doing it because there's something in it they enjoy, or
they've been lucky enough to keep it.

I get that there's bastards in the industry. There's bastards in every
industry. And the tech industry isn't the only one beset by recruiters. I used
to work in social housing recruitment, where we were actually liked by those
people we were trying to find jobs for. To go from that, to an industry where
we are seen as 'the scum of the earth' (which I saw on this site), 'evil
bottom feeders' and 'fucking idiots' came as a shock to me.

I'm not asking you to all suddenly start getting lovey dovey with us. This
won't change many peoples mind. But be aware that on the other end of the
phone is probably a young graduate, terrified out of his mind, who has been
thrust into an industry he doesn't know anything about, and expected to hit
some ridiculous targets in order to keep his job. A lot of the time, his only
mistake has been accepting a job when he didn't have one. Recruitment preys on
the desperate, lost demographic of graduates.

So yes, every industry has its shits. But for the most part a lot of
recruiters have nothing but respect for developers and designers in the tech
industry. Hell, we're scared of you most of the time. You guys possess talent
that we can only dream of having, and pretty much make the world go round. All
we're doing is helping you find a job.

tl;dr Recruiters are people too. Not all of us are the 'scum of the earth'.
Some of us are just trying to get by until we either get better at this job or
find another one. We're not all out to screw you over.

~~~
kozmikyak
It's a bit like the pity I have on people that make phone calls for
telemarketers. The position itself is a fiction, designed to maximize
placement ("hard sell") at the expense of honesty. Yes, there are people stuck
in those jobs. I have pity on the people stuck there. But the position itself
is inherently corrupt.

The whole move of hiring away from people with some technical knowledge
(enough to even _read_ resumes) towards impersonal, technically uneducated HR
departments, out to tech recruiters who often are even worse at keyword
searching than the HR departments, has been to the detriment of the job
market.

~~~
tomisthemovie
I completely agree. The industry itself has become more and more corrupt over
the years. However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone
with the same brush. There are people within the industry who are genuinely
well versed and technically minded, and benefit from this. That's what I
aspire to be like for however long I'm in this job for. But it's an uphill
struggle.

We're salespeople. No one grows up wanting to be a salesperson. I've got a
degree in Classical Civilization. I have no idea why I've ended up as a
salesperson. But I don't think that should make me a bad person just because I
put as much effort as possible into my current job. I'm not looking to
completely change the view of the industry, just to show more of a human side
to it. Besides, I've built relationships with managers who I now consider
friends, and I've made placements with people who have ended up absolutely
loving their jobs. There are positives to it, and that's what keeps me going.

~~~
Peroni
_However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone with the
same brush._

I honestly used to think the exact same thing however I've quickly come to
realise that the opposite is true. There are infinitely more shitty recruiters
than decent ones but that's not to mean the shitty approach works.

The very fact that you frequent HN is a big plus in your favour. HN was
incredibly helpful and supportive of me during my quest to prove all
recruiters aren't scum so hopefully if you stick with your job and continue to
contribute here, they'll show you the same respect you show them.

~~~
tomisthemovie
I've read your blog and agree wholeheartedly with the points you've made about
the industry. I think it's a case of being the underdog if you want to do the
job properly. In an ideal world, I'd be recruiting for one of the clients I
deal with. That'd be the perfect solution to the problems I have with the job
right now. I'd be building my tech knowledge without (I assume) such
aggressive targets and the constant barrage of failure (to put a bleak spin on
it).

Alternatively, I'll just continue to learn to code until I get a job doing
that with wherever I've made a placement. That's been a serious consideration
of mine for a while now, but we're looking at another couple of years of
working at it, and I don't think I've got it in me to stay in this job for
that long!!

------
dpritchett
My takeaways:

(disclaimer: I work two floors up from these guys)

\- Employees gravitate toward the best jobs available to them. Be honest with
yourself about your employees' prospects and desires. While you may
temporarily benefit from an information asymmetry such as an underpaid
employee whose skills exceed her resume or a work environment that is worse
than it appears at first glance, things will sort themselves out in the end.

\- Corollary to the above: Employees and jobs grow at different rates, so
things will inevitably drift from an initial good match to a mismatch. If your
employee manages to outgrow her job, it actually reflects well on your
environment. Ideally you'll be able to move her into a position matching her
improved capabilities, but it's okay if she winds up looking elsewhere for her
next step.

\- Networking is an all-the-time thing, not just an on-demand thing. Anyone
leading a successful group probably already understands this instinctively but
it helps to be reminded.

------
Peroni
_Recruiting and hiring isn’t considered a core activity_

Previously maybe. The trend towards acquiring internal recruitment teams is
growing dramatically. Despite not actively looking for work, I've had four job
offers for internal recruitment roles in the last 6-8 months.

 _Remember that oftentimes by the time an employee comes to tell you he’s
leaving it’s too late to retain him._

I have to disagree. It's difficult to convince an employee to stay when they
inform you they want to leave and quite often it's not worthwhile as their
motivation to leave will resurface again in a few months but it can and has
been done successfully if you know how to go about it and actually listen and
understand your employees needs.

~~~
cliftonmckinney
The rise of internal recruiting teams is definitely promising. We work with a
lot of companies that are smaller and/or growing at a slower rate and
therefore can't justify a full time equivalent for recruiting. They're hiring
maybe three or four people a year. For those kinds of orgs I think "making it
a core activity" is just as important, and perhaps more difficult because they
can't justify full time help.

Good on you if you've figured out the formula for retaining employees that are
potentially on their way out the door. I'll stand by my statement that it
doesn't happen often. I'd love to read a blog post about how to do it
successfully! :)

~~~
Peroni
_I'd love to read a blog post about how to do it successfully!_

I've been looking for inspiration for my next blog post and now I've got it!

You might be interested in my own musings on the recruitment industry:
[http://hackerjobs.co.uk/blog/2012/6/15/all-that-is-wrong-
wit...](http://hackerjobs.co.uk/blog/2012/6/15/all-that-is-wrong-with-the-
recruitment-industry)

------
ryguytilidie
Recruiter here, worked for a bunch of the "bigger" tech companies and now I
focus on startups. The biggest problem I see, over and over again is this:

People assume recruiting isn't important, they focus on building a great
product, etc. It is only once they get to the point a light seems to turn on
that they will need to hire more people to execute the idea they're working on
that they actually do anything about recruiting, and by then it is usually a
bit too late. The last company I worked for had a recruiter for awhile, let
them go and had someone who wasn't really qualified to be recruiting handling
things. They hadn't really hired anyone in 8 months. When I came in they had
this idea that we would be hiring people from day 1, but that's really not how
it works. The process takes some time, so not addressing a need that takes
time until the exact second you need it seems to be the biggest problem to me.

Oh and all those contract recruiters, fuck those guys.

~~~
Baliw
Are you in the SF bay area? Please contact me.

------
stevek
One part in the article really caught my attention:

    
    
        Recruiting and hiring isn’t considered a core activity
    

I think that once your company grows beyond a certain size, it must become so.
We hired a full time in-house recruiter around 100 people and it has had
enormous benefit.

~~~
scottshea
It should become a core activity but in many cases even when a company hires a
recruiter they are really hiring a 'seat filler' rather than a recruiter (btw,
I have no idea about stevek's company; this is a generalization).

By 'seat filler' I mean someone who is simply there to find a body at the
cheapest price they can get away with. More often than not it is to fill a
quota or fight attrition rather than find someone worthy.

------
herge
To anyone who gets harassed by clueless recruiters with doubtful job fillings,
I have a much better idea than answering with angry or rude responses.

Simply send them a stock email that tells them that you have had bad
experiences with other recruiters and that to filter out the serious job
offers from the shots in the dark, ask for 500$ before continuing any
conversation.

Do not remove yourself from the market, simply price yourself too highly for
them to bother. And asking for money up front sure shuts them up fast. You
still maintain "good relations", stay polite, and, in the worst case, you get
500$ to send them your C.V.

~~~
Peroni
You will never, _ever_ get a single recruiter pay $500 to see your CV.

If you really want to reduce the amount of recruiter spam then I suggest you
change your linkedin privacy settings and if you have a personal site, make it
crystal clear you aren't interested in hearing from recruiters. Any recruiter
who continues to contact you after that has done one of two things:

1\. Ignored the message on your site

or

2\. Found your old details on their internal database.

There's not much you can do about the first one but the second one is easily
fixed. Simply ask them to remove your details and send you confirmation of the
fact. They are legally required to do so if requested.

~~~
herge
> You will never, ever get a single recruiter pay $500 to see your CV.

Good, then. I have never found a job through a recruiter, always through word
of mouth.

