
Minister No More - mwilcox
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/
======
JoshTriplett
For reference, this is the same Yanis Varoufakis who, before working for the
Greek Ministry of Finance, worked for Valve as a digital economist:
[http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/it-all-began-
with-a...](http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/it-all-began-with-a-
strange-email/)

~~~
cpach
That fact is much more interesting than his resignation letter :)

------
NamTaf
Ignoring everything else, watching this whole saga unfold has been absolutely
incredible. In a global environment mainly involving conservative powers,
seeing a left-wing party take left-wing views to the negotiation table is
utterly fascinating.

The next few days are going to be incredible. I really do hope Yanis stays on
with the Greek government - his knowledge is clearly beneficial even if his
ability to negotiate is lacking (for reasons I'm partially sympathetic to
given the qualifications of his counterparts). He definitely has a position to
play in the Greek government adivsing their plays in the coming future.

e: I'd absolutely love to see him and Wayne Swan (AU centre-left-wing
treasurer during the GFC) sit down and discuss both the AU and Greek history
between GFC and now. Swan and co. implemented a massive stimulation package
that's widely credited as saving AU from feeling the bulk of the pain of the
GFC and was relatively unique in its existance amongst the approaches of
various nations. I think both of them could have quite the discussion about
how both AU and Greece approached this and the resultant effects then to now.

~~~
danieltillett
Australia had the massive advantage of its own currency and a low government
debt. Australia had room to manoeuvre through the GFC where as Greece went
into it with a currency it does not control and very high debt levels
resulting from reckless (and fraudulent) lending. While Wayne Swan did OK, I
doubt he could have done much if he had been the Greek finance minister in
2008.

~~~
NamTaf
I wasn't trying to say the situations are similar. What I was suggesting is
that the two examples give fascinating case studies into how differing
approaches cause braoder social and financial effects. Both men strike me as
realtively knowledgeable in financial matters and both come from the left side
of politics in constrast to the usual 'economically strong' parties, so I'd be
interested in listening to them discuss these topics.

I've no doubt that the Greek government was trammeled in ways that the AU
government was not. We were in a comparitively very healthy position with a
significants surplus to draw upon and an ongoing (at the time) resources
export boom, among other things.

~~~
danieltillett
Yes Australia got much luckier than we really deserved. Having a relatively
small population sitting on top of a huge amount of natural resources allows
us a lot of slack. I only wish we did more with our lucky situation.

------
p_monk
Brilliant.

I believe his exit was planned before the referendum, regardless of the
outcome. He had already openly stated that he would step down if the result of
the vote was YES, but the media never asked him what would happen in the event
of a NO victory.

His exit, especially in the early AM before EU markets open, will give some
confidence to the bankers and most likely prevent the markets from sinking.
Furthermore, it will signal to the creditors that SYRIZA is serious about
reaching a deal.

I've been following the evolution of Mr. Varoufakis's thinking for the last 5
years, through his many appearances on Doug Henwood's Behind the News podcast.
Listening to him speak on the Euro-crisis, it's clear that there's no one in
the media who has a better grasp of how we got into this mess and how we ought
to get out of it.

[http://lbo-news.com/2015/01/28/yanis-varoufakis-on-btn-16-ti...](http://lbo-
news.com/2015/01/28/yanis-varoufakis-on-btn-16-times/)

~~~
danieltillett
Yes I would say this is right. There needs to be an ability for all sides to
save face here so someone had to go. I suspect that he has been extra
obnoxious of late so that he could be removed at the appropriate time. Classic
ploy.

------
mikeyouse
I saw this comparison earlier and was struck by the depth of the Greek
recession:

[http://i.imgur.com/mHgxQeQ.png](http://i.imgur.com/mHgxQeQ.png)

They're in _worse_ shape than the US was at the same time into the Great
Depression. Six years after the GFC, and Greece's GDP is still 25% lower than
it was pre-crisis.

This is really unprecedented stuff. Hard to blame them for taking extreme
positions to end the suffering.

~~~
Joeri
I find it striking that there was a recovery in 2010, after which the
austerity measures were implemented, which were then followed by a downward
slide. I have never understood why any sane economist is in favor of austerity
measures while it has been shown that every time they plunge the economy into
recession making it harder to pay back debts.

~~~
noreasonw
Perhaps they should get less tanks and use the better their money? Greek has
more tanks than Germany and France together. A huge army for a little country.

~~~
Macacity
The Nato is not a friend of this thought and warned Greece not to save on
defense. [http://panteres.com/2015/06/30/nato-jens-stoltenberg-
warns-g...](http://panteres.com/2015/06/30/nato-jens-stoltenberg-warns-greece-
to-arms-cuts/)

------
nisa
He gave 2 talks a few years ago that are well worth a watch - he talks briefly
about the abuse of mathematics in certain parts of academic economy, cites a
Star Trek Voyager episode and other interesting things:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUWxNifJJ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUWxNifJJ8)

------
socceroos
I'm having trouble reading between the lines here. Was he given a push by
being excluded from the recent meetings? Is the suggestion that he was
actually a hindrance to Greece progressing? Is he saying he supports the move
or that he 'has to'?

~~~
toyg
As the most competent economist in the room in any negotiating meeting, he
clearly made the mostly-incompetent politicians insecure. I mean, Schauble
studied law and was an average accountant, Djesslbloem studied agricultural
policies, Lagarde is a lawyer. When he suggested advanced financial
instruments of policies, most of them could not _understand_ what he was
saying, hence the accusations of gambling and so on.

In that sense, yes, he's better gone: he leaves while on top, having been
vindicated by both economists (IMF report) and the public. I fear this might
mean Greece will still have to swallow a bitter pill though.

~~~
evgen
The idea that any of those leaders would have been intimidated by or felt
insecure around Varoufakis is laughable. He was a mildly amusing technocrat
given a specific mission by his delusional government, a mission he failed
miserably at while mostly working to maintain his own brand. National leaders
keep trained monkeys of their own in the room to explain or even negotiate the
details, the key issues are in making sure that major points are accepted by
both sides. I would not say that is is leaving "while on top", he is just
leaving.

This is no longer a negotiation regarding greek debt, it is a determination of
the process for greek exit from the Euro.

~~~
toyg
You might think that, but it's a fact that he managed to move the debate from
"more austerity to repay all" to "the unsustainable debt has to be renounced".
Both the IMF and the public agreed with him. The fact that he didn't need
"trained monkeys", unlike his counterparts, is exactly why they clearly felt
threatened and spent six months name-calling him.

 _> It is a determination of the process for greek exit from the Euro._

It might well be the determination of the process for Euro dismemberment. It's
now clear that a country not useful to the current "enlarged deutschmark" will
be just thrown to the wolves, so the clock is ticking for Italy and Spain.

~~~
danem
> Both the IMF and the public agreed with him.

From my reading of the IMF report abstract, it seems that they believe the
debt is unsustainable given that Greece didn't follow the plan laid out in the
2012 framework. Hardly a change of message, I'd say.

Relevant passage:

> By late summer 2014, with interest rates having declined further, it
> appeared that no further debt relief would have been needed under the
> November 2012 framework, if the program were to have been implemented as
> agreed. But significant changes in policies since then—not least, lower
> primary surpluses and a weak reform effort that will weigh on growth and
> privatization—are leading to substantial new financing needs.

[http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/cat/longres.aspx?sk=43044.0](http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/cat/longres.aspx?sk=43044.0)

~~~
toyg
They stopped following austerity because things were getting intolerable for
the average person. By the time the medicine could have 'worked', the patient
would have been long dead. So the change in policy was inevitable, as it was
debt relief. If Merkel and Schauble had agreed to debt relief 6 months ago,
accepting that it was a price worth paying for the stability and long term
wealth of the eurozone, things today would be looking rosy. Unfortunately,
they could not get themselves to reveal to their electorate that the 2012
bailout was for European banks and arms dealers rather than the Greek people
(which is now long overdue), and here we are.

------
jwise0
His post evokes FDR's speech some days before the 1936 election, in which
Roosevelt says: "We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace--business
and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism,
sectionalism, war profiteering. [...] Never before in all our history have
these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They
are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred."

Varoufakis, and Greece in general, are in a somewhat different position right
now than America was immediately after the First New Deal. On the other hand,
if Varoufakis is right, the differences may not be as great as I imagine...

------
pvls
He did our country a great service. Even now after his personal victory he
does what is in the country's best interest. The creditors demanded his
removal. True he is a poor diplomat and politics need diplomacy but if more
politicians were a bit like him the world would be better off. At least he is
honest. As for the situation, as we often say in Greece the truth is somewhere
in the middle, we must repay they must let us do so with dignity and hope.

~~~
makeitsuckless
> At least he is honest.

He's been caught lying on multiple occasions, most recently only two days ago
about already having new proposals from the eurogroup.

And it's still remains to be seen how truthful the arguments with which he
sold the Greek public on a "no" vote are.

~~~
pvls
> He's been caught lying on multiple occasions. Has he? Why should we believe
> that those deals were not offered as he said seeing the change in the
> attitude of the Eurogroup (which is a loose group of friends as it's
> president claimed when he decided to kick out one of it's members last
> Sunday)or even the IMF (which recognized with a report what he always said
> about debt sustainability) last week after the announcement of the
> referendum. Anyway by honest I was referring mostly to his political and
> ideological position and not to his negotiation tactics.

------
rtpg
And to think a couple years ago he was talking about how to sell virtual
hats... an interesting person to say the least.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Interesting blog post from him about how that came to be.
[http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/it-all-began-
with-a...](http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/it-all-began-with-a-
strange-email/)

------
OoTheNigerian
I have only questions.

Was this the plan all along?

Is this the highest stake of good cop, bad cop ever played?

Whatever the outcome, I have full respect for Yanis and would be taking full
note of everything he has to say.

------
brianchu
I think this move serves to weaken the political cover for the Eurogroup
refusing to continue negotiations with Greece (they can't say "we refuse to
negotiate because of Yanis"). I'm starting to think that this was his plan all
along, and that he and Tsipras are outplaying the Eurogroup right now.

~~~
jevgeni
No, they can refuse to negotiate for all other childish reasons the Syriza
government brings to the table.

------
Mikeb85
It's unfortunate, because his understanding of economics eclipses that of his
European peers. I'm sure he'll still be advising Tsipras in some capacity
though. And his resignation will take away one more of the troika's excuses...

------
binarray2000
This whole Greek economic (and now social) crisis is one muddy thing. At
first, until Syriza came to power, I have understood what's been happening
between the key players. The "story behind", while never completely told by
the media, was clear. With Syriza, that's no longer the case. For example: The
way they have negotiated with the creditors, their whole communication with
the media, who financed them. Totally contradictory. And now, the man in the
duo Varoufakis resigns... What a show! But, what's behind it?

------
awv
He is good talker, but I wonder if Yanis would let me borrow his bike or other
possessions he has. No guarantees from me.

~~~
gonvaled
With your risk profile, the interest rate will be 99%, payable as soon as the
credit is given, before you leave the room. You will come alone, unarmed, and
barefooted.

------
noreasonw
What happens when you use game theory in a rough political situation? We will
see it soon. We are entering in an uncharted territory, the risk has
increased. This kind of negotiation is going to settle a new battle field in
politics and as in any battle there can be huge losses.

------
caf

      It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points
      out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of
      deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to
      the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is
      marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;
      who errs, who comes short again and again, because there
      is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does
      actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great 
      enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in
      a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
      triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he
      fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his
      place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who
      neither know victory nor defeat.
    
        -- Teddy Roosevelt

~~~
scrollaway
Sorry for sidetracking but this is a really big annoyance of mine on
hn/reddit. A quote without any context is just an invitation to a pissing
contest between who can google the most appropriate random piece of text some
famous dead guy said. It's not exactly constructive. All you're saying here is
"to hell with the critics" and making it seem like TR agrees with that
viewpoint wrt greek economics 100 years after his death.

~~~
lllllll
Interesting, I found this quote very appropiate here, specially because its
meaning is quite ambiguous to me. And so are the times we are living in the
EU.

For instance, given Varoufakis's resignation, we could interpret the man in
different ways:

1) As a person who chose _not to be in the arena_ (in TR's words).

2) A man who was already _in the arena_ but already _failed while daring
greatly_.

3) A man who was already _in the arena_ and arrived at _triumph of high
achievement_ , by allowing the Greek people to challenge the Troika with a
referendum. And his resignation is just another triumphal move.

I do agree tho that filling comment threads with open-to-interpretation quotes
is not very constructuve. Still one here one there can make the issue less
black and white - which is good IMHO.

------
Roritharr
I will surely follow his future career... he seems to be a master poker
player.

------
forrestthewoods
Incompetent or mad genius? I'm not smart enough to figure it out.

------
cpach
A resignation letter from a finance minister. I don’t think this is suitable
for Hacker News. Flagged.

------
ioannisyan
The contract that Greece signed with the EU didn't change after they signed
it. If they agreed to it then, they have to agree to it now. If you disagree
then does that mean I don't have to pay off my college loans, house mortgage
and car loan either?

~~~
jon-wood
If you're unable to, and can prove it, then yes you can declare bankruptcy.

~~~
peterfirefly
For college loans as well?

------
rhaps0dy
Why do nations borrow?

~~~
chvid
Because people want to save.

~~~
nhaehnle
Thank you!

I realize that you probably imitated GP's short style on purpose, but to
elaborate a little bit: It's an accounting tautology that every (monetary)
savings must be offset by a debt somewhere. Since private households tend to
save (and we should consider that a good thing, given how available savings is
an essential part of freedom within a capitalist system), the debts have to be
somewhere else. They could be debts of firms (for investment), but the private
sector is exposed to (sometimes severe) economic fluctuations. So a buffer is
needed somewhere, and the logical place for this buffer is government debt.

------
totalcookie
"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're
evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters,
or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-
topic." HN Guidelines

~~~
hhandoko
Possibly. But he worked at Valve as Economist-in-Residence which somewhat
makes him, a relevant figure to the HN community.

------
anovikov
When i was a teenager, i frequently felt shocked how politicians managed to
justify even obvious crimes, like: Soviets had a theory explaining why Berlin
blockade of 1948-49 was good and justified. Now as i am getting old, i am less
and less surprised by anything, and yet these Greek guys stand out.

I hope i will live enough to see sovereign debt being given only with a
physical collateral: a piece of national territory. Otherwise, no way currency
union, or any other supranational union except those backed by force (like
USA) can survive. If EU leaders had balls, they will prevent what's happening
with Greece now, but nobody wants it to do in their electoral cycle.

Debt must come with strict, enforceable and unavoidable means to collect it,
otherwise both sides - lender and recipient - if they are sovereign nations -
are making troubles for themselves and others.

~~~
MatekCopatek
Land is private property in most countries, so IMHO your suggestion doesn't
really make sense. Or are you trying to say the voters should personally take
financial responsibility for the country?

I find it really interesting how people immediately start making moral
judgements (it would only be fair if they repay it, they stole someone's money
and ran off with it etc.) of the side that borrowed the money when it's on
country level.

But when it's a company borrowing money and not being able to repay it - hey,
that's just business for ya. The lender should have known better.

~~~
roel_v
"Land is private property in most countries,"

And yet, in most countries the biggest land owner is... the state.

~~~
peterfirefly
... and borders can change (Louisiana, US Virgin Islands) and land can be
long-term leased (Hong Kong).

