
A Tale of Two Students - robg
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704717004575268752238805736.html?mod=WSJ_newsreel_lifeStyle
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autarch
This article seems to be implying that Laura is somehow less of a success than
Ivan, but is that true?

Laura has, without support, involved herself in organizing volunteer
activities, successfully sought out a scholarship _and_ leveraged her
connections to do it, showing great initiative.

She also seems to be committed to working to support herself as needed, and
she still made an effort with school.

Is there any reason to think that she'll be less of a success in life than
Ivan? Is college really the only end game for success?

~~~
ErrantX
In fact; is she not already more of a success.

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FluidDjango
This is a WSJ "Saturday _Essay_."

It is _descriptive_ , a case study (of two cases).

There is no way of assessing what significantly differing factors (besides
their high schools) were unmentioned/unknown yet influencial for these two
teens.

It establishes no causation.

Only value of article is to demonstrate some of the strategies/opportunities
that a charter school _may be_ at liberty to exploit. Oh, how severely
education suffers from lack of capable research.

~~~
Empact
The vast majority of social research doesn't establish causation either. It's
an extremely difficult task for large, complex, disorganized systems (e.g.
social systems, economies).

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endtime
>Santa Fe South, whose teachers are on a one-year renewable contract, can
remove incompetent instructors more easily than Capitol Hill, where teachers
are unionized.

It seems to me that this is probably the most important distinction (though
not the only one, of course). There were some _unbelievably_ bad teachers in
the town I grew up in, and my town was ranked #14 in NJ in 2006 (I left that
school system in 2002, but from my younger siblings I know it can't have
improved much). Teacher quality makes or breaks an education.

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ImFatYoureFat
Great article, but it completely misunderstands the point of charter schools.
Charter schools are suppose to be a testing ground for new methods in public
school administration. If a charter school is successful, it's methods are
suppose to be implemented on a wider range of public schools.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the tone of the article but it seemed to be
suggesting that charter schools in themselves were a viable replacement for
normal public schools.

~~~
eru
And why not?

~~~
ImFatYoureFat
Maybe I just wasn't being clear, I'll try and elaborate. Both public schools
and charter schools are publicly funded. Usually the difference in the two is
that charter schools get less funding per pupil in exchange for not having to
adhere to the same administrative and academic standards.

My only point was that the article seemed to be suggesting that charter
schools are good and public schools are bad (which doesn't make any sense
since they are both public schools) and that in a perfect world charter
schools would replace public schools (which doesn't make any sense because
then, by definition, they wouldn't be charter schools.)

Remember, charter schools are given more freedoms so that they can experiment
and see what practices work. The original idea was that the successful
experiments would be used in normal public schools. There are lots of truly
superb charter schools and some pretty bad charter schools.

I'm all for charter schools and I'm all for implementing successful practices
in public schools. However, in my experience the people who want to "replace
public schools with charter schools" either don't understand what charter
schools are, or just want to cut the budgets of public schools.

There are plenty of people who advocate more funding for charter schools, and
I am one of them. But in the public school reform movement there is almost no
one who advocates expansion of charter schools instead of wider implementation
of the successful practices of charter schools.

~~~
eru
Thanks.

Perhaps those people use different definitions of "charter schools", because
they do not know about the legal definition?

I for one, would like to see schools in general given more autonomy to
experiment and responsibility. Of course pupils should be free to choose their
school then, too.

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edw519
_One of the biggest obstacles is that most parents assume college is out of
reach_

 _The school is fighting an uphill battle to change an ingrained "mentality
among lower socio-economic [students] who believe they cannot make it_

Whether it's education, economics, politics, work, and yes, even start-up
culture, this is a recurring theme that can't be ingored:

The first step in achieving anything is believing that you can.

Nice story. Thank you, robg.

~~~
tokenadult
"The school is fighting an uphill battle to change an ingrained 'mentality
among lower socio-economic [students] who believe they cannot make it,' he
says."

There is indeed a set of barriers faced by high-ability, low-income students
that is not faced by low-ability, high-income students.

[http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_27/b3840045_...](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_27/b3840045_mz007.htm)

<http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0621.pdf>

<http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ff0615S.pdf>

<http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf>

[http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/kahlenberg-
affacti...](http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/kahlenberg-
affaction.pdf)

<http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/05/a-thumb-on-the-scale.html>

[http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/financial-aid-
leveragi...](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/financial-aid-leveraging/4)

<http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510012>

<http://www.equaleducation.org/commentary.asp?opedid=1240>

[http://www.jkcf.org/assets/files/0000/0084/Achievement_Trap....](http://www.jkcf.org/assets/files/0000/0084/Achievement_Trap.pdf)

<http://www.reason.com/news/show/123910.html>

It's very commendable for school principals to encourage students from poor
families to keep pushing at those barriers. Meanwhile, principals of high
schools in higher-income areas don't need to do the same kind of encouraging
for academic preparation, because families in those areas know that their
children can get into college even if they are very poorly academically
prepared for college.

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GrandMasterBirt
I find the following interesting:

Charter School:

Able to kick out students at will for things like possession of drugs, or
violence. So you immediately know, no shit or you are out.

1-year renewable contract with teachers, so only good ones stay.

Ability to keep school student size relatively small.

Sounds like a real business. Maximize your efficiency. Get the best workers,
ensure they are the best, and ensure the best results given your merchandise.
Ok not quite 1:1 but close.

Now how to do this on a national level to ensure the best everywhere!!??! I
guess the moral of this story that I got is that once the students were
properly motivated the flourished, until then nothing good was happening. It
is not just teaching, but sparking a curiosity of why they should want to
learn.

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travisjeffery
People who want to be Politicians disgust me.

Good politicians don't want to be Politicians, they want to be because they
know that they're the best one for the job, making things better for
themselves and for others.

The problem is that this guy is in the majority, the high majority of people
who become Politicians.

~~~
carbocation
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus>

