
Bipolar 1, job search of over 2 years. Looking for suggestions - ragingnarwal
Hi,<p>I&#x27;ve been searching for a role for well over 2 years now. During my search, I was diagnosed with Bipolar 1 which allowed me to get professional help and narrowed what I need in a workplace to be healthy. I moved out of my previous state (reason was personal). I&#x27;m out of all money I&#x27;ve saved up from my previous jobs and survive off of contract work I sell locally (usually basic IT work).<p>I&#x27;m a quick learner, am very good at reading body language, contribute to open source, and attend meetings.<p>I dropped out of college and am almost through with an online program but am unable to pay tuition currently. I can do loans but am struggling with bills (especially health) so I&#x27;d rather establish stability first.<p>I feel extremely agitated at the majority of conversations in interviews (I prefer genuine connection) and refuse to do another damn coding assignment.<p>All I want is a role that will accommodate my mental disorder, provide growth, operate ethically, and pay market rate. Feedback (if any) is usually I don&#x27;t go with the flow (I&#x27;m stubborn), lots of passion but lacks experience (I have a diverse background), or &quot;skills&#x2F;qualification doesn&#x27;t match&quot;.<p>I&#x27;m not willing to compromise on what I need in a workplace as I don&#x27;t want my disorder to impact my physical health as it has in the past with hostile environments.<p>Stories? Advice?<p>Looking for feedback that is helpful for advancing the status quo besides roll over and deal with it.<p>EDIT: I have 5-10 years of experience, go to conferences, and present when I can (public speaking &lt;3).
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peter_d_sherman
I've interviewed for a number of programmer jobs over the past 20 years; if
there is one fact about them that should be engraved in stone, it is this: NO
TWO EMPLOYERS USE THE SAME CRITERIA FOR EVALUATION OF WHETHER OR NOT TO HIRE
YOU. Some employers won't use coding tests, some will, and of those that will,
they'll all be different, with some the coding test will be 100% of the reason
you get in or are rejected, with some it will be less, like 50% or 20% with
the other percentage points going to the interview, what you say, past
experience, if you connect, etc., etc.

Advice: Don't sweat the coding questions if they exist, just do the best you
can, try to explain the way you think, and realize that they don't count for
100% of the hire/no-hire decision at all of the companies that give them...

Also, I like to point potential employers to Joel Spolsky's "The Guerrilla
Guide to Interviewing" [https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-
guerrilla-guid...](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-
guide-to-interviewing-version-30/)

If they read it but disagree with it, I don't count it against them.

If they read it and agree with it, that's a huge positive. I might be able to
overlook other flaws in their software development process and take the job...

If they don't read it, BIG RED FLAG!!! What else are they not going to listen
to if/when you propose it? A job should be a two-way street with employees
doing what they are told, but at the same time constantly proposing ways to
improve their employers' processes! Even if employers do not accept those
proposals (totally OK, they are the employer after all), they should at least
have the common courtesy to READ anything reasonable, and RESPOND to those
things, with the EXACT REASONS as to WHY those proposals are unacceptable!!!

If a potential employer, pre-hire, won't read a web page you send them, and
won't comment on it in such a way as to provide actionable intelligence one
way, or the exact reason WHY on the other... that's a BIG RED FLAG!!!

Also... for an alternative viewpoint on Mental Illness, you might wish to read
"The Myth Of Mental Illness" by Dr. Thomas Szasz, M.D.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness)

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
results" -Albert Einstein

~~~
phaus
>Also... for an alternative viewpoint on Mental Illness, you might wish to
read "The Myth Of Mental Illness" by Dr. Thomas Szasz, M.D.

I might check that book out because it sounds interesting, but the Wikipedia
article makes him sound like an idiot.

More specifically, this strikes me as absolutely stupid:

"instead of treating cases of ethical or legal deviation as occasions when a
person should be taught personal responsibility"

The brain operates through electrical signals and chemical reactions. I'm not
an expert, but I think I recall hearing that certain mental illnesses show
signs of different activity when we view brain activity. Different parts of
the brain can also be shaped/sized slightly differently with disastrous
results. Illnesses or even lifelong habits can cause physical changes in the
size of different parts of the brain.

Furthermore, as a person with a mental illness, in some ways it seems like its
partly a way to categorize people with different personality traits, ways of
processing information, etc.

I think there's more to it than assuming that everyone that ever does anything
wrong just has a discipline problem. I haven't read the book so I have to
withhold judgement, but I'm guessing he's going to turn out to be a quack.

~~~
ragingnarwal
You're right about the brain differences. Scans, autopsies, and blood level
studies have demonstrated there is a correlation in observed behavior.

Here's one example of many

2010 study regarding lithium and brain grey matter growth:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3055479/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3055479/)

It's insulting for Peter to insinuate that people with mental disorders lack
discipline. Most people who know me would never guess I have a mental disorder
as I keep my promises and achieve results in projects.

Any symptoms I have are usually chalked up to personality traits. I searched
for help when my physical health was at a risky state.

 _1961 era level of ignorance_

------
ryanmercer
>I feel extremely agitated at the majority of conversations in interviews

Last summer in an interview I was asked "what is your superpower" by a SAAS
company. Having never been interviewed by a tech company, let alone a company
out of the midwest, I just looked at the guy on the other end of the video
call like he was a bit off

"I don't know what you are asking"

 _What is your superpower?_

(repeating the question doesn't really help me) "Is this role playing? I'm not
a comic book fan, I'm not sure what you want"

 _What 's a super power you have?_

(hi, hello, stop repeating the question, rephrase it please) "I don't have
one" (I'm not mentally ill and don't believe I'm some sort of meta-human).

And pretty sure that's where I was disqualified in the interview process.

Earlier in the interview they kept asking what I have done at a certain place,
what sort of projects I've worked on "I can not answer that, I've signed
multiple NDAs"

 _but what do you do, what do you work on there_

"I can not answer that question, I have signed multiple non-disclosure
agreements"

but what sort of projects, like what do you do

"I can not comment on this question at this time outside of what is listed on
my CV"

And same company, earlier interview (had me talk to 3 different people over a
couple of weeks), asked me to describe what I do at my primary job. This
requires several minutes because I have to provide a basic frameowrk, about 30
seconds in

 _We try to keep these interviews short, can you get to the point_

"I'm a Senior Entry Clearance Operations Import Agent, I clear international
freight through Customs and Border Protection as well as any other applicable
government agencies using the Harmonized Tariff Schedule and other resources"

 _So you look at packages?_

"no"

 _Then what do you do_

(I was trying to %@#$@#% give you a very basic background so I could tell you)
"Every good that comes into the country has a 10-digit code, not unlike a
telephone number, example a cellular telephone is 8517.12.0050 and..."

 _Again we try to keep these pretty short so let 's move on_

headdesk-headdesk-headdesk-headdesk-headdesk-headdesk-headdesk

~~~
ragingnarwal
Wow, that's flabbergasting.

Exactly the type of lack of conversational etiquette I've encountered.

~~~
ryanmercer
Coming from the Midwest it was so bizarre and alien. I'm quite convinced
Silicon Valley, and startups in general, have no idea how the rest of the
world works. Absolutely none.

Never mind the fact that all 3 people interviewing me, were clearly working on
their computers while conducting the interview as you could see them typing
way more than I was saying as well as obviously moving to other windows and
reading text based on hand and eye movement. Like, hey man if you're going to
interview me at least give me the respect of paying attention.

~~~
ragingnarwal
I echo that.

Guess they lacked the super power of respectful human conversation.

------
DoreenMichele
I'm seriously medically handicapped. I currently do freelance work.

I have a comment here that links out to a list of freelance platforms:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18829691](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18829691)

~~~
ragingnarwal
You're amazing, thank you for the resource

------
bpman3
Hey there, I'm on the tail end of this exact scenario (also BPI, heyoo). I
don't think I'm qualified to give advice but I can share thoughts on what
worked for me.

Remember this always: this world isn't meant for us. It's shitty but it's
true. You are still fighting the fight and you should be damn proud of that.
Keep it up, it never ends, and that makes you a strong human being, no matter
what your brain tells you today or the next.

\- Changing my expectations for what I can reasonably expect was the first
step. Unless you're working with others who have BP or are close to someone
who is, you just can't expect anybody to understand, or care. After accepting
this, I found it easier to recognize a path forward within the scope of what's
reasonable. Freelance as you are doing is a great path. We absolutely require
a high degree of autonomy simply because of our on-again-off-again abusive
relationship with that thing others fondly call sleep.

\- Coding challenges are a pain, but the ones you can do from home are your
best friend. Yeah I know they're repetitive and don't really motivate anybody,
but work is not a great rainbow party of love all day either. I've found it's
mentally stimulating to play around with them, and if solving a puzzle ends in
a job, well right on!

\- You qualify for disability. Yes, you qualify. You probably qualify for
unemployment if you find yourself without a paycheck one month. It's there for
exactly this reason! Don't listen to your brain telling you some weird tax
misshap from 10 years ago will be brought to the surface and ruin things. You
qualify. Figuring out what I needed to have on hand, and what the timeline for
submission -> rent/food money was in the event jobs slowed or a particularly
extreme episode knocked me on my ass one month, likely eliminated 60-70% of
stress I didn't even know I was carrying around. You have a support network,
but it does take some bureaucratic boring stuff. Having that sorted helped my
peace of mind more than any other thing I think I did.

\- Learning the signs of toxicity in a workplace or people I talked with when
interviewing has payed major dividends. I was far too naive and trusting for
too long. I eagerly got sucked into an interesting project and ignored the
giant screaming shitshow just outside my head all day until the job became
more insanity than annoying workplace quirks. No more amigo, workplace
toxicity is very prevalent (especially in tech/startup worlds for some reason,
not sure why or if its anecdotal), and it WILL come back to fuck you over.
It's like the show Silicon Valley but not funny, just really sad and miserable
to endure. Identifying shitty situations before getting involved has
stabilized my life quite a bit.

\- For me, my "redemption" in terms of finding a comfortable work situation,
was by finding a way to apply my software/research background at companies
largely removed from the "tech scene". Hip starups and beanbag massage chairs
are cool, but being able to leave my job at 5 every single day is SO NICE.

Stress is the archenemy of BP, I'm sure you know well by now :) The goal of my
life is now just to reduce stress any way I can. I can still dream of making
it big and doing something great and all that jazz, but we both know if the
universe handed us something that spectacular, our brain would find the most
contrived way to blow it all up. That scares me, and sometimes just getting
out of bed scares the shit out of me. I'm not gonna try to convince myself
I'll work hard and do something great because of it.

The only thing I expect from hard work now is that I don't yell some insane
shit at my neighbor this weekend. BP is a nutty thing. Keep strong!

This is a throwaway but if you want to chat about anything at all let me know,
I'll keep checking the comments here for a few days, and we'll figure
something out. You're not alone! You're never alone! There are literally
thousands of us :)

~~~
bpman3
I can't for the life of me figure out how to successfully submit an edit.
Apologies in advance for this wall of text, it's meant to be a list (the
dashes mark the bullet points more or less)

~~~
sctb
We've edited the comment for you—I hope you don't mind! You have to use a
blank line in order to get a newline
([https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc](https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc)).

