
Being right won't pay your bills - austinlchurch
http://austinlchurch.com/being-right-wont-pay-your-bills/
======
doodpants
> People remember the last 2% most vividly.

Agreed. I'm going to remember this guy as the one who shoved a pop-up in my
face asking for my email shortly after I reached the end of the article. Not
to mention the first 2%, where he asked for my email so he could send me his
business tips before I even got to read the article.

~~~
Guvante
Didn't get to the end of the article, it instantly popped up on me, was
surprised it managed to gain any traction here. (Rotated monitor is probably
why)

~~~
TeMPOraL
This actually shows the principle opposite to this article being at work - it
demonstrates that you can be annoying to people, and they will somehow deal
with you anyway :).

~~~
Guvante
Depends, I skipped the contents completely when that happened, only went to
the comments to see if I was the only one.

------
Mendenhall
A seasonal company calls me in to do customer support during their busy season
when the mail has lost customers packages and they havent been delivered and
everybody is crabby. In helping 1000+ customers on a live chat alone none have
ever given me a negative review. (which I never let the company forget:) and a
major reason they call me in.

One tip when dealing with a upset customer, they will often call in angry and
instantly start on a tirade of why they are upset. If they do I instantly
interrupt them and ask them for account information and assure them we will
take care of any issue they have because we are here to help.

It does 2 things, you dont want them to rant and build up negative energy so
you nip that in the bud and they dont have to relive negative feelings. The
assurance that we will take care of them instantly sets tone that no matter
what their problem will be solved so you take all the stress away from the
start. Telling them you are there to help in a friendly tone makes it very
hard for them to express anger since you dont get angry at those helping you.

Take away the anger and leave them with happy thoughts. Once the anger is gone
the rest is easy.

Edit- Also when you interrupt and ask for account information it shows that
before you even have to hear the problem you are already working to solve it
in a fast and effective manner for them.

~~~
dasil003
Of course if you don't have the juice to actually fix the problem then this
can backfire.

The most angry I've ever gotten is with Comcast's offshore chat/call center.
The reason is because they are trained to tell you that they _will_ solve your
problem, and that afterwards that it _has_ been solved in such an emphatic
fashion that only a sociopath would dare to question. Yet they do this without
any _actual_ indication that what they are doing is having any effect at all.
And the worse thing is, even when you call back they act like they are
listening to what you did previously, but in fact they are just waiting to
interject the script where they make you jump through the same 20 hoops over
and over again. In my case it turned out to be a faulty modem, so none of what
they were doing had any effect at all, but in no way did they ever let on any
actual information or engage in any reasoning.

I suspect the only reason hasn't replaced that call center with a voicemail
tree is presumably because they need a Turing-test capable human to get the
customer to calm down long enough for them to re-read step 25 from the level 1
tech support handbook.

I apologize for hijacking your thread, but I had to get this off my chest.

~~~
Mendenhall
I think you bring up a great point and I couldn't agree with you more! If you
are not in that situation or can't honestly say that, I strongly suggest not
doing it. It would make you look like a liar and leave a bad overall taste in
customers mouth.

The company I work for thankfully takes customer service very serious. I don't
mind helping them because they want their customers to be happy not be blown
off or jump through hoops and that personally makes me want to help the
company because its something I respect.

I usually cant stand support from a company because of many of the concepts
you touched on, specially the "hoops" and support not knowing what they are
talking about so I empathize with the customers.

Appreciate the post! I do love HN because the high level of discussion.

------
nickpsecurity
This is a good article that many would call "Customer Service 101." The author
seemed to have been weak in that area. Good the author realized how important
it is to overall earnings.

On blogs or whatever, I can be pretty blunt and harsh. With my customers, I
walk a tight rope between being aggressive and being gentle almost always
moderate. I'm quick to concede something to customer if the overall value
proposition is still good for long-term or it's a little thing that can't hurt
my image. Past that, I might try to shift blame from them or I to the
circumstances of the situation while portraying us as a team handling it.
Pissing them off is the last thing you want to do, though, given long-term is
more important.

Author either skimmed over or didn't mention two things, though. One is that
customers often talk to other potential customers. Even those you "fire" you
should separate from on good terms or not too harshly if possible. They can
spread word fast through other clients who are then more likely to turn down
contracts.

The other issue is the clients asking too much: many do it on purpose. There's
so many hustlers out there who play proper capitalist by always getting as
much as possible while giving as little as possible. So, you need to determine
ahead of time what's your willing to commit to, possible extras, possible
compromises, and absolute upper-bounds for any given job/client. Then, stick
to it and politely if people are pushing it too much. Give those types an
inch, they'll take a mile: you go from profitable, independent consultant to
many to practically under-paid employee of one.

Things to remember.

------
dx211
> But in retrospect I can see that my touchiness in that moment probably cost
> me tens of thousands of dollars.

I don't know if it's a side effect of living in a western society, but I see
people make this kind of mistake all the time in the corporate world -- i.e.
assuming that behind it all there's some neutral arbiter who will square any
conflicts that arise in the workplace. In reality, if you make your self look
like an ass in front of the wrong person, at the wrong point in the fiscal
year, it affects your bonus / promotion / etc., and you never get that back,
plus it's used to factor into every reward you get until you leave that
company. Definitely better to be diplomatic.

~~~
TeMPOraL
In a corporate world, it probably doesn't matter most of the time.
Corporations are big entities - individual failings get lost in the noise. If
you're a top executive then sure, your every word will push the stock price
around. But an average employee can absolutely be an ass, as long as they
don't anger the management, and it won't likely affect the bottom-line that
much.

It also applies to smaller companies; in fact, I'm beginning to believe that
people are being too obsessive about pleasing the customers. For instance, the
best way to get a company to respond to your complaint today is through social
media. They will ignore your e-mails. They will bullshit you on the phone. But
they will not ignore a complaint on a Facebook page. But why is that? An
average consumer has exactly _zero_ capability to inflict any damage to the
company. They won't even lose a single sale over it, unless the company is
very new or caters to a niche market.

Some companies, those in extremely competitive environments, know it all too
well. In convenience stores, besides meeting tons of cool people, you can also
meet tons of assholes. They don't care. They know you have to buy food anyway.

~~~
hueving
>But an average employee can absolutely be an ass, as long as they don't anger
the management, and it won't likely affect the bottom-line that much.

Parent was referring to being an ass in general. If you act like a dick in the
workplace, it will affect your promotions, etc. People will just not think of
you first when looking to shower praise.

------
tyingq
Totally agree with the premise of being diplomatic and calm, even when a
customer is wrong.

However, it almost reads like he's saying he should have just issued the
(undeserved) credit the customer asked for. Personally, I think that could be
just as costly over the long term...it sets a precedent that the customer will
likely leverage over and over again.

~~~
djillionsmix
Yeah I think the best lesson to take from the parable is to keep the ego and
corresponding negative emotions out of it.

There's nothing really wrong with what he told the guy (at least, what he says
he told the guy), it's just that by his own words, the way he said it came
across like him being a ____.

When instead if he'd been able to get past his anger/offense at being
questioned, he could have done the same thing but positively, like "dude check
out all this awesome shit i am literally already doing for you, for free!
Doesn't that actually look like you are getting a pretty sweet deal?" And so
then instead of this client being like "oh well fuck me for asking I guess" he
could have been like "whoa shit this guy is giving me the sick hookup, I
better hire him all the time from now on forever!"

------
devonkim
That's pretty much customer service 101 / consulting ABCs. Sometimes you have
to learn it through experience if it doesn't come natural to you, but I think
it can be learned, taught, and coached.

The more nuanced, hard part is to be able to effectively read ( _over a phone_
even) whether your customer is the type that has been burned by charlatans in
the past and wants technical excellence first... or whether they would prefer
"bedside manner" moreso (this is an area that a lot of doctors also fail
routinely). Some people are extremely hard to read, and it gets more difficult
the higher up a corporate hierarchy you go and for more lucrative verticals in
my experience - they're all used to very strong poker faces. But few high
level business decisions are made purely upon raw information, so
understanding emotion becomes very important if your business focuses upon
fewer customers with greater $ / customer.

All too often people fail to read the emotions behind what someone wants and
tries to execute to the details of the request instead of looking for context
first before touching a keyboard. I worked with a good engineer that
diligently worked on problems reliably, and my customer had an issue that they
really just didn't care about that much but only wanted to just send out the
door for the sake of finishing it and marking it done (it's turning into
shelfware, but there's... obligations / due dilligence). I had a hard time
communicating that over the phone with the customer present and the customer
was getting frustrated (visible but not audible) but another senior engineer
figured out between the lines what I was implying between my words,
drastically reduced effort on the problem being worked, and the customer was
happier for it.

------
mgr86
>You may have heard the old saw about marriage: “You can be right, or you can
be happy.” \--

Happy to see that saying in there. In its sometimes hard to remember that not
everyone is as logic oriented as myself.

~~~
issa
I think you could safely add that last sentence to the list of things NOT to
say to a spouse.

~~~
existencebox
Is that necessarily true? It seems like it would depend on the dynamic. I know
I've had many and extensive (and quite good) conversations with my fiancee as
to how she was brought up in a family that valued emotional reasoning over
logical reasoning. Knowing the inputs and broad transactions to someone's
mental processes (especially if they're very close to you) can help facilitate
communication/understanding, regardless of the value judgement one applies to
them.

To tie this back to the article, sometimes being right can work, but it's a
risky line to push without the above, a clear understanding of the person
opposite you's mental process. That being said, also as the above, I find that
in situations where a business relationship can build that trust and
understanding even in the face of contrary views on certain things (logic vs
emotion, to draw that parallel) a far better working relationship can be
established, although I have a feeling to an entrepreneurial community this is
stating the obvious :)

I think the author touches on this but not specifically, "be easy to work
with" is a nice umbrella that I'd add an addendum to, a hope that both parties
try to give each other the benefit of the doubt and some tolerance through
disagreement in the hope that the opposite party is doing the same, and
eventually, you may not have to worry as much about the friction of being
right. (within reason)

~~~
Lawtonfogle
>I know I've had many and extensive (and quite good) conversations with my
fiancee as to how she was brought up in a family that valued emotional
reasoning over logical reasoning.

I understand that most people value emotional reasoning more than I do. I
don't get people valuing it more than logical reasoning.

There is just so much potential danger with implicit and explicit bias. Sexism
and racism tends to be more the result of emotional reasoning than logical
reasoning. (Think of a jury/judge sentencing a black guy to a harsher sentence
than a white guy who did the same crime. Imagine if the difference between if
the justification was the black guy felt more dangerous vs a justification
such as in this instant the black guy having similar prior offenses. Which
justification is racism?)

~~~
existencebox
To clarify my point, my intent wasn't to assign value to thinking emotionally,
but to suggest that being candid and open about differences such that they
exist is an important step to working productively despite, or even because of
them.

That being said though, you bring up an addendum I would counter that although
you're right to say there is potential danger to emotional thinking, there's
potential danger to purely logical thinking as well; to bring this back to my
original statement in which avoiding confronting these differences in an "easy
to work with" fashion reduces the chances of moving even a little towards a
middle ground to 0.

~~~
Lawtonfogle
I would definitely agree there is great danger in purely logical reasoning,
especially if it were someone who had limited empathy.

I wonder, if both extremes are dangerous, is the middle ground safe?

------
sailfast
Great article and the last mantra stood out: >Value, not prices. >Experiences,
not products. >Outcomes, not processes.

Would love to see the title changed to "Being right(eous) won't pay your
bills" \- being right is important, letting everybody know it is a totally
different thing :)

~~~
austinlchurch
Love this nuance you teased out.

------
thegayngler
If I feel that strongly about something, I just stop. I don't like
confrontations at work TBQH. I'll leave if I think I can't be of any further
service or someone doesn't need my expertise. No use getting worked up or
arguing about it.

------
austinjp
This is absolutely true, and applies to people other than "creatives".

There's a slightly patronising tone to this, whether it's right or wrong: " we
must Siberia educate our clients". While true, it's not the key issue. They
can educate us too, and perhaps that's the take-away here. I hope to put
myself in my clients' shoes every time I talk to them. That way, everything
they say makes perfect sense, and we can agree a way through any issues
together, as a partnership.

I don't always manage to do this effectively, of course, but reflecting on
this helps me slowly, slowly improve.

~~~
exolymph
Compassion is almost always worth the effort. Very difficult thought.

------
stephenboyd
The author's observation that the last 2% of a transaction has a bigger impact
on the customer's perception is consistent with the peak-end rule, which is a
pyschological heuristic predicting a person's overall impression of an
experience based on its most intense and last moments. Daniel Kahneman (the
guy who wrote Thinking, Fast and Slow) and some others have done good research
on it.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak%E2%80%93end_rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak%E2%80%93end_rule)

------
epalmer
Whenever I feel like I have to respond immediately, like right now damnit: I
should wait.

------
FreedomToCreate
This basically has to do with how our brains work. We weigh negatives things
in our mind much more than positive. Thats why even a good friendship built
over many years with many positives can be ruined by a small mistake. Its core
to survival to look out for negatives over positives, because it can avoid
major trouble. Sympathy and compassion are things we need to work on to
overcome our brains natural push.

------
comrh
> Feeling very righteous and indignant...

Recognizing those feelings and knowing that it is time for a walk and NOT time
to respond to emails is a useful skill.

~~~
billhathaway
Absolutely. I took a mindfulness class and the biggest takeaway for me was to
take time between the event and the response whenever you feel an immediate
emotional reaction.

~~~
tyingq
There's an "undo send" feature in gmail (settings->general) that has saved me
a few times. I wish it would allow for a send delay higher than 30 seconds
though.

------
thom
If you're an agency that can scale up arbitrarily, by all means work for bad
clients, especially as you've got people relying on you making payroll. If
you're just a freelancer, why bother? There are only so many billable hours in
the year, and there's more work than you could ever turn down, most of it for
agencies that are unable to say no.

------
sliverstorm
The need to be right is frequently dangerous. From my days motorcycling:

 _Being right won 't keep you out of a hospital bed_

------
puredemo
Nice blog post, though I disagree with the title -- being right certainly pays
my bills. ;)

The theme is more like, "Learn to pick your battles with clients."

~~~
zzalpha
It's more than that.

Even if you choose to fight, fight the right way. Being overly emotional and
ego driven ("I'm right, how dare they?!") can be very damaging to a
relationship, even if you end up "winning".

The key, as I'm trying to teach myself every day, seems to be to get yourself
and your ego out of the picture. The advice I really loved was to picture
yourself as some absurd, godlike dictator, demanding the world bend to your
whim... With that in mind in mind you realize how silly you're being.

It's something I struggle with every day, but learning this kind of self
control is very important to long term success.

~~~
voltagex_
I'm sure it's different when contracting, but it's really hard when working in
a large organisations. There are a few different kinds of reactions to the
inefficiencies and inequalities in $BIGCORP:

* Try to fix everything - this will lead to burnout

* Ignore it, and just work on your stuff - this will work, but you probably won't get promoted

* Play politics and try to fix a few things through the "right channels" \- this probably works, but it's really really difficult and can be soul-destroying.

* Do what you can, and update your resume - cynical, but probably the best option if you like eating food.

I mean, you're not always in a position where you can educate your clients.
Sometimes doing that would be a career limiting move.

------
SiliconTomato
Learned this the hard way, minus 10K!

------
herge
Related to the last 2%, I'm always shocked whenever a waiter balks at
splitting up a check when multiple people are paying. I always think "Really,
you are going to annoy me right before I decide how much tip I will give you?"

~~~
bardworx
As a former waiter who spent over a decade in the industry, working everything
from casual to high dining, this comment irks me at a personal level. These
examples are not directed at you but an explanation of how a waiter sees the
situation.

1\. Some Point of Sale systems have a limit on how to split a check. I
physically cannot split a check more then 6 ways and the customer is asking or
7 ways, then what am I suppose to do? Be "nice" and promise the impossible? So
now I pissed off a customer who's about to tip me because I cannot reprogram
the POS.

2\. The more likely scenario is when a table of 7, who just had pre-fix brunch
is asking me to split a $70 check 7 ways which takes my time away from my
couple who just dropped $70 by themselves.

What customers in restaurants don't understand is that tipping might be
optional but my time is money. As a customer is tipping on service, I'm also
providing service comparable to the tip I receive.

Waiters are really good at "guessing" how much a customer will tip and will
act on that belief.

Disclaimer: I worked with a ton of awful waiters who were straight up rude to
good guests. No guest should ever be treated poorly.

Ive also served some awful customers:

Some of them tipped very, very well because they wanted to be awful. I loved
those assholes and always welcomed them with open arms - money's green
regardless.

Some were just awful and I tried to steer clear of them.

Now as an olive branch; all guests should be treated with outmost respect and
all people in the service industry should be as well

~~~
purplelobster
Now, I know this is something that waiters might not have the power to change,
but how about not putting whole tables on the same tab to begin with? How is
this practice even OK? It should be obvious that each person pays for him or
herself. When you go shopping with some friends it's not like you have to
split a tab just because you are hanging out together. I pay for what I
consume, putting us all on the same tab is just being lazy.

~~~
bardworx
I'm not sure where you're coming from with this comment. Most tables are
couples and families...So should you separate a check for husband and
wife/brother and sister? How do I know if two guys are together or "together"?
Should I ask?

I can "guess" if you'll tip 18% or not and if I'm wrong...I'm wrong. If I
assume your relationship to another person you're dining with - I might get
fired...

~~~
dennisgorelik
You mentioned that your POS allows to split the check 6 ways. So, if you see
more than 6 people at the table, then you may ask them how they are going to
pay: separately or by one check.

~~~
bardworx
Makes sense - what would happen if they have 6 and then a 7th joins them
afterwards? Should we refuse service?

Hypotheticals are everywhere. Usually its easier when tables ask to split a
check in the beginning, then the logistics can be figured out and you don't
have a situation that OP mentioned.

Bit off topic: I had a table, I don't remember how many people but it was
large (7-10). One guest joins late and quickly orders her food. Since the rest
of the table is already on appetizers, I rush to place the order and get her
salad as soon as possible.

Once the salad arrives, I check back and, after the guest is satisfied, go to
take care of a different table.

Maybe two minutes later, the table franticly calls me over and asks if there
are mushrooms in the salad, to which I reply "Yes". Calmly, the gentleman to
the right of the lady with the salad reaches into his bag, grabs an EpiPen and
stabs her.

My manager and I look at each other and are mortified - how did this happen? I
quickly start to apologize but I had no idea that she was allergic to
Mushrooms. While we're freaking out, the table is as cool as the other side of
the pillow - everyone just continues eating and the lady is all smiles.

Turns out that the entire table are doctors and the lady routinely forgets to
mention her allergies. The gentleman, her husband, explains the situation
while the lady apologizes for creating a fuss (at this point my manager is as
white as a sheet).

Even though everything turned out "ok" it was certainly a scary moment. It
also relates to your comment - shouldn't I ask each person that comes in about
their allergies or is it their responsibility to inform me of their dietary
restrictions?

------
s73v3r
Be easy to work with, but at the same time there is absolutely no reason to
give the client in the beginning a credit. Doing so will probably hurt you
more, as the client will lose all respect for you and your rates.

