
The to-do list problem - tomazstolfa
http://www.funkykaraoke.com/2012/09/the-to-do-list-problem.html
======
tsahyt
Slightly off-topic, but _never_ auto-play video (or audio) content on a
website. If I want it to be played, I click on it, otherwise it's just
annoying.

~~~
bluetidepro
I'm glad someone beat me to this. This is the first thing I thought when I
went to the post. It soured my opinion of the whole article before I even read
it because of that small usability mistake.

~~~
dkrich
"It soured my opinion of the whole article before I even read it"

Seriously? The fact that an embedded video started playing soured your opinion
of the article? Maybe you guys should chill out a bit. Sometimes comments like
this lead me to believe the author wants recognition at somebody else's
expense.

~~~
bluetidepro
I'm not saying I didn't read the article because of it but it does just start
the article off with a bit of annoyance. You can't argue that anywhere you
enjoy going in the online or physical world is determined by emotional
responses.

Imagine when you got to a restaurant that has music annoying loud. You may
still enjoy the dinner food, but you had a bad experience eating the good food
because you were annoyed with the music. That scenario similar to this
article. You could still enjoy the article content but you were annoyed
because of the bad experience. And after so many of those bad experiences you
may just think "you know what, I'd rather eat somewhere not as good just
because I won't be annoyed by loud music."

If you don't think that small things like this (that can easily add up over
time) do change how your viewers see your site/company (regardless of the
content), then you need to think again.

However, I could be wrong. I mean, everyone did love the animated images,
colors, and sounds on GeoCities which lead to their industry takeover and
incredible success. ;)

~~~
dkrich
"However, I could be wrong. I mean, everyone did love the animated images,
colors, and sounds on GeoCities which lead to their industry takeover and
incredible success."

Let's not just assume that all annoyances are created equal. One is an
integrally bad user experience, the only way out of which is to stop using the
service wholesale. The other amounts to mousing-over a large area of the
screen and clicking a button.

~~~
bluetidepro
Fair enough. I will give you that. It was a bit of a extreme on that example.
But I imagine you do understand what I generally mean about the small things
having the ability to add up.

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zimbatm
I hate to-do lists. The worst are the ones where others can pile up things for
you.

The problem with most to-do lists is that they treat your time as infinite.
You just have to take one item after the other and chunk trough it. You're
just the CPU executing the tasks you've been handled trough like a puppet.
Soon enough the list becomes a big graveyard of things you didn't have the
time to do and it's depressing.

It's better if the system forces you to filter tasks upfront. Like a tweet,
there is only so much you can fit in a day. Get over it, you won't have the
time to do X, just forget about it. It's important to have quality over
quantity.

~~~
harshreality
Isn't that merely a case for periodic pruning and reordering of the list(s)?

I'm not very dedicated in my usage of to-do lists (probably to my detriment),
but I think people who use them consistently revise their list at lunch and
again at the end of the day... perhaps at breakfast too. Unless they have an
assistant who does all that for them.

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dmethvin
Did any of the previous commenters actually watch the video? Ignore the title,
it's not about to-do lists. If you ever want to be successful at a startup,
watch the video. Understand what he's saying about those three things that are
required to get action from someone. Then look for his other work on Captology
explaining how computers can manipulate people (in both the good and bad
sense).

Seriously, WATCH THE VIDEO.

~~~
casca
YT link for easier control and downloading:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYE3Jal7Yaw>

~~~
tomazstolfa
Thanks! I've replaced the video with this one to avoid the auto-play issue.

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dkrich
I agree that one needs motivation and ability to complete a task. I'm not sure
any app or electronic service is going to supply that. If it did, you'd find a
lot of people out of work.

As for this quote:

"How about having a reminder showing up when you get an email from a relevant
person that can help you accomplish your task, or a reminder showing up when a
relevant person is calling [through vox.io of course]."

I think you're falling into the trap that most tool-builders fall into- over-
thinking the problem. Most people are pretty simple. That's why we still keep
pads of paper and post-it notes next to our $1500 workstations. For a lot of
tasks speed and simplicity provide far greater benefit than any expertly-
engineered web service ever could. In any case, why would I want a reminder to
complete a task if I am getting emailed by somebody related to that task? In
that regard I hate to say it, but email will win out over an integrated task
list. Why? Because the email itself is serving as your reminder. A secondary
service nudging you to complete the task after the email seems superfluous.

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Swizec
> To build an intelligent to-do list it will take more than polished pixels,
> so please start putting more intelligence in your to-do tools. Your users
> will be thankful and will hopefully have much shorter to-do lists.

After trying many things, I have now switched to Trello. Using it I've become
convinced that "intelligent to-do lists" are a fallacy, what we need are
_dumb_ todo lists. Something not much smarter than a whiteboard or a piece of
paper.

For reasons I don't understand, those just work.

~~~
mth-
Totally agree. I have used index cards as a planning tool and a to do list for
a long time. Trello, in all its nothingness, is the only thing that has come
close to the efficiency of a pencil and stack of cards.

~~~
eckyptang
Agreed. I have used the same method since about 1985 and it works wonderfully.
The only optimisation has been change to a mechanical pencil.

I've lost my card stack a couple of times in those years and there has been no
negative effect.

I've played with and written various bits of software but it just doesn't make
it any better either.

This problem is solved already.

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ciniglio
This is the problem that GTD tries to solve. Omnifocus is a great piece of
software that's built on this methodology

[http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-
Produc...](http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-
Productivity/dp/0142000280)

<http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnifocus/>

~~~
tedmiston
I read GTD and practiced it for a few years. I always felt on top of my tasks,
but gradually seemed to fork off my own system, although, I definitely still
track tasks in a list* wrt context, due date, and time estimation.

One cautionary note with GTD is that it's easy to get caught up feeling like
you're cranking widgets and lose sight of the forest in favor of the trees. I
welcome suggestions for this.

With respect to BJ's talk / the Fogg model:

\- Triggers: The GTD system helps you capture all your task triggers in one
place. This is a great idea that works well in practice.

\- Ability: The most common behaviors for interacting with your GTD system are
adding new tasks, deferring tasks, and reviewing. The concept of a universal
inbox accomplishes task insertion very easily, but one must build the habit of
processing the inbox into their own GTD system __daily__ to really trust it.
That was difficult for me in practice.

\- Motivation: The weekly review system provides a renewal and closure based
on what you've done recently and have upcoming. The higher-level reviews
"20,000 to 50,000 feet" are a harder habit to form since practiced so
infrequently. I never really became great at this.

* I use one plain text file for tasks. I group with headers based on the date I plan to work on each task. Some items have hard due dates, but most don't.
    
    
      # TODAY
      x completed task
      - uncompleted task 0.5h /* estimate of how long it'll take */
      - another task (due 9/8)
      - ...
    
      # TOMORROW
      - ...
    
      # NEXT WEEK
      - ...
    
      # NEXT
      - ...
    
      # SOMEDAY / MAYBE
      - ...
    

And 3 separate lists for errands, groceries, and calls:

    
    
      # @GROCERY
      - ramen
      - gatorade
      - etc.

~~~
nreece
I built a very simple todo list + week planner based on a similar concept,
that I use every single day now. Check it out sometime - <http://weekis.com>

~~~
tedmiston
Nifty. I'd love to see your iOS concept. The pain of editing my text file on
the iPhone causes me to glance, but rarely update on mobile.

Listary ($0.99) has a nice synced list implementation that works well if you
don't mind dividing the lists into separate files, but it doesn't support due
dates. I didn't consider separate files a realistic option for my purpose.

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igzebedze
The problem is that there are multiple workflows people use and dont want to
change. I for instance rely on invox zero and calendar, so they function as
todo list. Many people i know use other methods.

On the other hand, some people argue that if tou cant keep your todos in your
head, you have a bigger problem ;)

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namank
To be effective, your to-do list should also include when and where beside the
task.

The post assumes humans are bound to sense habits and gives little credit to
the power to making decisions - where one can change their mind and act upon
that decision.

All you need is a mental transition between the previous activity and the new
activity. How? Well, the problem has existed as long as humans, so just figure
out how parents convince kindergarteners to go to school, why some cultures
pray before eating food (try to think beyond thankful-for-food reasons), and
how famous leaders can led entire movements. The common denominator to all
these will be your answer.

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roel_v
Primitive version of GTD. GTD solves the issues raised in this post and more.
Many todo apps work with a GTD workflow. I use Toodledo (web app) and Due
Today (Android), they sync perfectly. Re-reading the GTD book every 6 months
or so helps to be consistent with applying it, because the devil is in
thinking 'oh I'm just going to skip this or that task for now', or not being
diligent in e.g. assigning contexts. For GTD (any system, really) to work, you
need to hammer it into your habits until it's stuck so snugly that it feels
weird to do things any other way.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
I'm really glad that this works for you, but it sounds like hell.

~~~
roel_v
Not half as bad as _not_ having a system, and having to spend significant
mental resources on keeping track of what to do, what to prioritize, when to
do them, etc. _Not_ having to think about that meta-information frees up
resources to actually do things.

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nmcfarl
Just last night I was thinking that Reminders needed a "remind me at sunset"
option to remind me to round up the animals. As it is I have to change the
time of that reminder every month.

There are probably a ton of triggers that could be useful. Off the top of my
head: time, location, weather, the people you are currently with (4sq
checkins), current call, recent texts, or emails. I'm sure a bunch more.

I'm not sure that I'd call this a todo list, but it does sound like a GTD
support system.

~~~
nmcfarl
This article discusses what can be done with just time and location, if you
just treat them with a bit more smarts:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4489121>

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scott_meade
Very closely related to Fogg's behavior model of "trigger", "execution",
"motivation", Charles Duhigg in "The Power of Habit" writes of the steps of
the habit loop as "cue", "routine", "reward".

Habit is coming up to be a big topic in app design and development.

"The Power of Habit" is a good read which systematically lays out some science
behind what habits are, how they work, and how to leverage them.

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julius707
It has never worked for me. I ended up creating a not-motivated-to-do list.

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tedmiston

      import willpower
      # ...

