
51 hours left to live - processing
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fy6yz/51_hours_left_to_live/
======
DanielBMarkham
I found this post on reddit uncomfortable, and I'm not sure why.

It's not because of death with dignity -- I'm a big fan. It's not because of
not wanting to face my own mortality -- I know death awaits us all, and for me
or some others it may come very soon indeed. Who knows when we will die?

But something about it just didn't ring true as something I would want to make
happen over and over again. I think perhaps it is the forum and mechanics
involved here. Would I want a site where people posted about their deaths and
then others voted that post up or down? Then each comment was accordingly
ranked? I don't think so.

Your life isn't the same as a news article or a blog entry, and it shouldn't
be treated as such. Perhaps there is a site for broadcasting your last words
to the world at large, and it sounds like something I would want to visit and
participate in, but reddit ain't it.

~~~
lwhi
It's heartbreaking.

I think there's an uncomfortable novelty in having access to such personal
period in this person's life. Sometimes, technology can create distance and
remove immediacy and impact - but I don't think that's true in this case.
There's an obvious undeniable gravity at work - it's important.

This kind of story usually only touches us if we're unlucky enough to have
friends or family who are experiencing the same.

But I find it so difficult to comprehend. Life is fleeting. I know every stage
is finite - but it's easy to forget that everything really is temporary.

This brings that home for me.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
I agree, and I would have never posted my comment over on the reddit thread.
It was displeasurable enough to post it here.

I have thought that when faced with my last days, I would like to write a blog
article (or, knowing me, a freaking series) kind of wrapping things up. I
consider HN sort of my home audience, so I would post these articles over
here.

But this has got me rethinking that idea. The problem is that then people's
lives and final words start competing against each other. What if nobody
upvoted my life? Would pg's final words be more important than say, tptacek's?
It's just too weird.

So yes, every now and then it is humbling and good to be reminded of the
extremely temporary nature of our existence. As an existentialist, I try to do
so on a daily basis.

But in a community of 100K, sadly, somebody is going to be dying on a fairly
regular basis. I cannot imagine that having their words competing with the
latest iPad for the community's attention. It is not something I want to
participate in.

But I might be wrong. Like I said, it got me thinking. I am still unsure how I
feel about it. My heart goes out to the author of the post over on reddit.

~~~
lwhi
I think, the issue is - we're still figuring out how to have conversations in
crowds.

This is still relatively new to human society. Twitter provides a way to shout
out sentences to the world in general - and to listen out for voices that we
care about. Forums allow us to converse with multiple people and actually form
relationships - relationships which might eventually cross over into
meatspace.

The ability to converse in this way - in a 'third space', provides a lot of
opportunities to encounter things that we're not used to encountering. This is
an example of that.

What will happen in the future? Well - if there's a sharp increase in
communication with people who are choosing to end their lives due to
suffering, my guess is we'll all learn more about what those people are
feeling and thinking. We'll all be a lot more educated and a lot more
understanding as a result. It will be a positive thing.

I suppose that there's a chance that we'll become desensitized - but I think,
when the stakes are this high and the subject is so earth-shatteringly
significant to every one of us, it probably won't ever become so.

I really think that our society is worse off by treating death as a taboo. I
don't particularly enjoy thinking about it, or talking about it - but I think
it's worthwhile.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
It's interesting that right now on HN there's another post about Facebook and
how having one place for all of your conversations is harmful. I think the two
topics are related.

It's not a matter of ignoring or running away from death, it's a matter of
treating every piece of conversation that comes from my keyboard as all being
the same.

There's been no time in human history where we had such a "flat" model of
interactivity. Even in small hunter-gatherer societies it's common for
information to be withheld from some, shared with only a select few, etc. Man
is a social animal, and these types of channel-selection and social posturing
are a critical part of his healthy existence.

We programmers have created the internet, and to us all of that social
posturing stuff is just nonsense. Everything is just a bit on a disk
somewhere.

While that's true in a physical sense, it's tragically false in practice. The
way we discuss philosophy, death, religion, politics, science, history, and
the rest of it varies according to the crowd and the mood. It's not all just
bits.

But your point is spot on: we're still trying to figure out how to have
conversations online.

I think we are making a LOT of mistakes that are going to come back and bite
us one day, one of which is thinking that democratic metaphors are applicable
in all situations, but that day may be many decades off, after I'm dead
myself, so aside from complaining about it I'm really not worried about it too
much :)

------
billpaetzke
His best quotes:

On life:

 _Nothing we have is worth hurting anyone else for. It's all fleeting, people.
Stop seeing race, color, sex, religion, etc... They're all just people, and if
you try to love them you won't lose anything._

On suicide (of an otherwise healthy person):

 _It's not living that's failed him, it's life. We can always change our life
as long as were living._

On regret:

 _Yes, one. I bought my high school sweetheart an engagement ring and never
gave it to her. Life happened, meaning I was dumb. I went in the military
after a dumb fight and... yeah just one._

On fear:

 _What long term risk is there in saying hello? I can't find any. Worst case
is you get some possessive asshole that thinks your hitting on his sister, and
you get a black eye. Total pain and shame lasts maybe a month. Meeting the
right girl though lasts forever. So you tell me, would you trade a month of
shame for a life of happiness?_

~~~
DLWormwood
As a 38 year old bachelor, I wish I learned that lesson about fear in my
youth, I was one of those “possessive assholes” due to being a Fundamentalist,
and regret my social hostility to this day.

------
j4pe
"Why do ordinary thoughts gain such credibility just because their source is
dying?"

I feel a bit guilty for thinking like this while reading the thread. Maybe a
raw vision of mortality makes us emotional, less cynical, and we're more
receptive as a result. Maybe we look to last words as an encapsulation of a
person's life philosophy, as if they became wiser in the knowledge of imminent
death. Or maybe an overly detached analysis is just another reaction to a
reminder that we're going to die.

~~~
forensic
Because dying people have few ulterior motives.

It's ancient wisdom that dying people speak the truth.

"Living" people with "stuff to say" are more often than not full of bullshit.

~~~
ajays
It used to be that a dying person's confession was considered unvarnished
truth in a court of law. More on "Dying Declaration" at the Wikipedia site:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_declaration>

------
Mz
Someone on HN once suggested I do an AMAA on Reddit. I didn't get it. This
post makes me want to do one.

I wish Lucidending well. My impetus has nothing to do with "rebutting" the
idea of right to die. I got well in part because I stopped trying to live. At
one time, my whole goal was to just hurt less. Suicide would have been gladly
welcomed, so I understand why one would do that. I just think it's sad that
this is what conventional medicine has to offer.

Of course, I completely suck at starting conversations and can't think of a
Reddit handle to use.:-/ So this may never fly.

~~~
reason
What is sad about what conventional medicine has to offer?

~~~
Mz
If you read his comments, he has been battling cancer for 6 years. He has
apparently had multiple surgeries. He is stopping the medication so he can
have a "lucid ending" and spend some quality time with family and friends. He
has been tortured by chemo. He plans on having jello as his last meal so he
doesn't "mess" himself again.

I have cystic fibrosis. I've gotten off of 8 or so prescription drugs. The
drug side effects were crippling. I was miserable and unemployable. My sister
has been battling cancer for 11 years or more. I belong to email lists for
people with CF. I've heard lots of stories like this. What conventional
medicine does is pretty gruesome. I am getting well. I only wish I could more
effectively share that information. BTDT, got the t-shirt and it saddens me
that so many people are doomed to the same fate as Lucidending.

Edit: I would be seriously interested in knowing why this is being downvoted.
There is something wrong with finding a better way and wishing to share it and
thinking it sucks that other people are suffering so horribly?

~~~
alex_c
I'm assuming you were downvoted for the vague swipe at "traditional medicine".
It can be a touchy subject, because of the large number of crackpots,
"vaccines cause autism", etc.

To be clear, I suspect no HN readers will claim medicine has all the answers -
far from it. I suspect the reaction is more to the false dichotomy between
"traditional medicine" and "some other kind of medicine" (with the implied
hints of conspiracy or willful incompetence), rather than "current medical
knowledge" and "future medical knowledge".

I took a look at your site, and it's obvious you've been through a lot, and
thought about it more than most people - so please take my comment only in the
context it's meant: as an attempt at an explanation why your one specific post
was downvoted (and not an endorsement of the downvote).

~~~
Mz
Thank you for the feedback. I routinely struggle with how to talk about
offering a better solution. Most folks get all up in arms, like it is an
attack, and then just do not listen to what I am really trying to say. Sigh.

Have an upvote.

~~~
alex_c
Very understandable - the problem is that it's tough, based on a brief post,
to judge whether someone is an "alternative medicine" nut, with all the
negative baggage that can imply, or someone with genuinely unique insights and
experiences (hell, it's tough to judge in general, when dealing with things
that are both emotional and not well understood).

~~~
Mz
It doesn't help that I frequently sound like Elle Woods (a la the scene in
_Legally Blonde_ that goes something like this: "He's gay. -- what kind of
shoes do I have on?" ..."Uh, black?"..."See, he's gay.") But I don't have a
good solution for that because I find that if I try to preemptively explain at
length, that gets even worse reactions. :-/

------
holdenc
For some reason I am reminded for Steve Jobs' Stanford graduation speech when
he says "you will die one day." In the video, it seems to roll off the
audience as a cliche. But, it seems to have tempered much of his career with
fearlessness, and the willingness to take risks.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA>

~~~
rmobin
It's so hard to think like this. I've read and watched this speech many times
over the years, and I always thought it was awesome - but it never changed my
behavior. I'm working on that more recently because I realize the power of
understanding how many things "fall away in the face of death".

------
jedsmith
> 12,588 up votes 10,018 down votes

That's a fascinating look at peoples' reactions to this. A reminder of
mortality split right down the middle.

~~~
ck2
There are many bots that downvote in order to promote other submissions.

I'm glad they have that choice, and the ability to share their story. In
perspective there are many people in this world who die "unknown" - PBS airs
the pictures weekly of teenage American soldiers who died in Iraq or
Afghanistan - then there are those who were killed while trying to non-
violently protest their unjust government (China, Iran, etc.) - then there are
those who are too young to speak yet who are dying of starvation in certain
parts of the world today.

Not trying to judge or weigh who is more worthy of a voice, I can only say
it's good this one person got to be heard.

~~~
btipling
This isn't true. What evidence do you have that bots downvote on reddit? The
reddit guys came by our Cloudkick office late last year and flat denied there
are any bots they know of that downvote when I asked them. If you don't have
any real reason to know about bots on Reddit you should probably not persist
in continuing to pass on this fantasy.

~~~
Maxious
> The reddit guys came by our Cloudkick office late last year and flat denied
> there are any bots they know of that downvote when I asked them

I guess they forgot to explain that while it's not bots that do it, there's a
feature in reddit code itself makes it look to many people that such bots
exist:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eaqnf/pardon_me_but_500...](http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eaqnf/pardon_me_but_5000_downvotes_wtf_is_worldnews_for/c16omup)

I've linked that so many times in threads about tragic events or sensitive
questions where people even a single downvote personally (ie. it can happen
with very small scores but high activity)

------
dralison
What does this have to do with startups? If you're an entrepreneur there are
times you wonder how you can get through the tough times. This post helps put
that into perspective.

Most profound thoughts I think I've ever read on the interwebs. Hard for me
not to get emotional reading through them.

------
old-gregg
The most shocking to me was this quote: _"I don't have a home, it was consumed
in medical bills."_

~~~
jpadkins
why is that shocking? Not to sound heartless but doctors, nurses and
medication are expensive. Treatment for cancer is expensive. People who work
in healthcare deserve to get paid, right? Houses are usually people's largest
source of savings. So when people deplete their savings to save their life,
why is it shocking?

~~~
old-gregg
Because charging money for medical treatment is medieval. But apparently one
needs to be born and raised outside of the US to see that clearly.

------
fecklessyouth
I really enjoy HN commentary about Reddit. It's like an audit--a smaller, more
focused group offering insight about all the stuff that goes on in the bigger
group.

------
dustingetz
I felt compelled to collect his responses.

<http://blog.dustingetz.com/51-hours-left-to-live>

------
davidedicillo
That thread provoked two distinct reactions in me. One was I shouldn't spend
more the necessary at my desk working, when there's is an entire world out
there to live and experience because you never know when the day will come.
The other is I want to really accomplish what I'm working hard for, so that I
could feel like I succeed in my goals.

~~~
pizzaman
which leaves you back to your desk working :-(

------
camdykeman
I was going to write on this yesterday but decided not to at the last minute
for whatever reason. At that time there were 4 comments on this post. Between
then and now there have been an additional 104. Whether you approve of the
post or not, I think we can all agree that there is value to be found in the
level of response it has received. Maybe the post is appropriate, maybe its
not. But its gotten people talking about something we often try to ignore and
in that sense I cant help but appreciate it.

------
runjake
I feel saddened but fortunate this person shared their last days on Earth with
a bunch of us strangers. I've done a lot of reflecting on what was said &
discussing it with my family, one of whom (my mother) having terminal cancer
herself. We faced a lot of uncomfortable issues honestly after we had read the
thread.

I avoid Reddit these days, but this is gold. I'm indebted to this man/woman
for their effect on my life. This person will leave strong echoes in the world
after their passing.

------
xd
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fy6yz/51_hours_left_to...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fy6yz/51_hours_left_to_live/c1jj0u4)

------
swankpot
What is AMA?

~~~
alex_c
"Ask Me Anything".

~~~
swankpot
I upvoted your response, because I guess that's the thing to do on a site like
this. But then someone else apparently downvoted. ?!

------
elliottcarlson
He just created a second thread within the last 10 minutes:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fyqpi/26_hours_left_to...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fyqpi/26_hours_left_to_live/)

------
edo
Humbling.

------
resdirector
Just an observation, the difference between Hacker News and reddit, in this
instance, is stark.

------
soulclap
just wanted to say 'thank you' for submitting this.

the amount of love in the comments is overwhelming. (and it might be a naive
and inappropriate thing to say but it's odd that it takes 'facing death' in
order to gather that amount of love on the webs. or wherever.)

------
csomar
Really sad, it made me think that I'm going to die in some unknown day and
circumstances...

~~~
ck2
Men have a 1 in 2 chance of getting cancer and then 1 in 4 of dying from it.

Women 1 in 3 getting, 1 in 5 dying.

[http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerBasics/lifetime-
probabili...](http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerBasics/lifetime-probability-
of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer)

Make every day count!

~~~
barrkel
Those are interesting statistics, because I would guess that if you asked
people about gender-specific cancers, the first thing that would pop into
their head would be breast cancer, perhaps testicular cancer, then cervical
cancer.

~~~
ilikepi
I imagine prostate cancer would be in that list, too.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I'm pretty sure that was his point - I think it's widely known that breast
cancer gets a lot of attention despite, as that table shows¹, not being more
prevalent in those places than prostate cancer (indeed less risk of developing
breast cancer in the table: 1-in-8 vs 1-in-6). Breast cancer does have a
marginally higher mortality rate in those figures though (both are listed as
1-in-36 die).

\--

1 [http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerBasics/lifetime-
probabili...](http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerBasics/lifetime-probability-
of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer)

------
Jach
Made a reddit throwaway to ask why he's not on a cryonics plan, I wonder if
he'll reply.

------
charlesju
This is way too sad for Sunday morning. I wish you the best if you read HN.

------
statictype
I feel like downvoting this post simply because it's so depressing. I think I
just shot the rest of my day.

------
louislouis
only in death are you truly free.

------
georgieporgie
Isn't it a bit odd that everyone takes this at face value? Doesn't it seem
like a bit of a fantastic story to appear on Reddit on Saturday? I'm
suspicious that people are having their emotions toyed with for someone's
entertainment.

~~~
nandemo
A lot of IAMAs are trolls. But it doesn't mean everyone believes, it's just
selection bias. The people who don't take it at face value stay quiet because
you're not supposed to be skeptical about it, that would be "insensitive".

Personally I find it odd that someone who "has just found Reddit" would take
the trouble to do an IAMA instead of, I dunno, anything else in their last
hours.

------
mkramlich
way off-topic post for HN. halfway to pictures of kittens.

------
rick_2047
Okey this is ridiculous!!!! First the guy who patches a software with Morse
code and then this guy who would rather have a AMA with strange people before
he dies. News flash people, there are actual human beings around you who you
should talk to rather than computers or an anonymous crowd you do not know.

~~~
heyitsnick
What amazes me about this comment is that you honestly do feel you are better
to advise someone _how to best spend their time before they die_. This person
has battled with cancer for 6 years, and has probably spent a countless amount
of time thinking about this decision and how he chooses to spend his final
time in the world. Do you not think he has a better educated and more
heightened perspective on this issue?

And yet you still have the arrogant audacity to tell the world that what he
feels is right is wrong.

~~~
rick_2047
Whats the obsessions with the word audacity??

Anyways, this is my perspective of the issue. And I do feels its ridiculous.

~~~
heyitsnick
Still well behind the great peak that was the 1900s.

[http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=audacity&year...](http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=audacity&year_start=1800&year_end=2010&corpus=0&smoothing=3)

