
Ask HN: I am 23. What's next? - x0ner
There are times when I find myself at work blazing away at development or outside training for a race and stop to ask myself, is this is it. Not like is this what I am doing for the rest of my life, but the more general question of is this what people work towards all their life. Now I am being a bit vague here, but hear me out and let me explain. It helps to have some background on my story so hold on...<p>I grew up by the city in the suburbs where you had your typical gang per neighborhood and cops cruising around the area at all times. Drug deals were a regular thing during class time and it was likely that if you followed in your parents footsteps you would be pregnant at 17 and potentially graduating high school with a drug problem. Most of my friends fell victim to drugs in one form or another, so I learned to steer clear of most of that stuff. Plus my dad told me he would kill me if he ever found out (little did I know he had his own problem with it all).<p>My parents split apart, but before my dad rolled out he set a solid work ethic in me. That or I realized home wasn't the greatest place to be around and decided it would be best to make money while disconnecting from my "family". I started work at 14 changing oil and found the ability to make my own money was the most liberating experience ever. I made a point to ditch the required high school work forms and limits and cut a deal with my boss, 30+ hours and I would make it work. During the summer I put in well into 50 hours as much as I could and enjoyed life.<p>Fast-forward a couple years and I am in high school goofing around in a networking class. I was told before joining the class that graduating from this school would land me 16 college credits and 19 if I passed the certification. Call it what you will, but I found high school to be a joke, so I went to college at night starting in 11th grade and decided I would make the whole school thing go by as quickly as possible. During this time I continued to work full time, and volunteered at some tech startup doing Internet sales. I also did the usual teenager activities like going to parties, hacking companies in the city, doing graffiti and running from the cops.<p>Jump ahead 1 year after high school and I am working for a government contractor building circuit boards on million dollar contracts. I graduated high school early, bent the rules as much as possible and was the proud owner of an A.A.S degree in network technology. I later moved on to doing network engineering, but remained with the company for a year before making my next big leap. Meanwhile at home I was planning on moving out because the situation was only getting more annoying.<p>I realized that finishing my degree was critical to making any money, so I made that my top goal, but knew I would be bored doing nothing but school. You have to understand that at this point I had pushed myself far beyond my normal means and what once was difficult was now the "norm". Sleep wasn't required and all I wanted to do was work. I decided to go to a local college that took in all my transfer credits where a lot of the courses were online. I managed to re-write parts of my degree and pull 18 credit semesters while working the 50 hours as a security engineer while still having some sort of life.<p>I graduated early with my B.S in Information Assurance and managed to get a couple speaking engagements in the middle of that. I spoke at one of the biggest hacker conferences in Vegas, on career panels with college professors and offered my advice to those who asked or listened. Fast-forward some more and I have written articles for magazines, been offered crazy jobs with crazy money and have vacationed in some pretty cool spots. I have since fixed some of the issues with my family and feel as if I am becoming a more understanding person in regards to substance abuse and mental illness (things I have dealt with a lot).<p>Life and work are great and just in this year I have been to Canada, the Bahamas, Europe, California and Vegas. A lot of these were for speaking, some for vacation, but all of them great trips. When I got back I would tell my family how things went or what was on my mind. In some cases I wasn't too excited over everything and the comments my family made were more or less that they wish they had my life. It wasn't that I wasn't happy with all of this stuff, but it made me wonder if this is what people worked for. Was what I had someone else's dream?<p>I work at a university now doing forensic investigations and malware analysis. I could be making a hell of a lot more money else where, but I enjoy the people I work with and what I do everyday. I often stay late and base a lot of my life around doing things in the general area. Because I am staff, I get tuition benefits and while I thought I would never go back to school, I am thinking now it may be worthwhile since it's free. I am not sure if I want to focus on technology or if pursuing a degree in something else would be more of my thing. Either way, I think it would be nice to experience a little bit of the college scene I missed out on by rushing before.<p>Outside of work I race road bikes, workout a lot, am not too social, but keep enough friends around not to be terribly bored or alone. I go on several trips throughout the year and keep life interesting through funny experiences and the general mentality that life is about stories, not salaries. I know it is who I am to continue working like I do and to do everything I try to the fullest. I am excessive, easily bored and always seeking some challenge. I am far from being old or done, but there are times when I wonder if I will burn out. Will I work too much? Should I be doing more? Should I be doing things differently?<p>I guess the last thing I would point out is that I recognize I don't know everything and that I haven't tried everything. There is still a lot more I could be doing and a lot I could change both around me and within me. The "being a better person" aspect seems to take longer than changing what I'm surrounded by, so I hope this doesn't come off like a poor me, help me out sort of posting. It should be instead interpreted as someone who has done a decent job for being 23 and wants help knowing how to make life even more awesome. Hopefully a few people will read this and understand the sort of personality I have which I think helps in these questions.
======
horofox
First of all, people frequently do those walls of texts when they have no idea
of who they are, they just did everything that they were told so, so they are
like a puppet. Making money is not hard when you are puppet. Here on HN
there's a lot of paul graham's puppets, so they somehow spend their lifes
creating CRUD apps...

Don't take me this the wrong way.... but I think you are full of shit. You are
those kind of people(very common in HN's community also) that HAVE to think
you are somehow special. You think that life is something you explore and
conquer. Your life made you think like that and now it's time for you to
release yourself from your stupid destiny, just like you did with the drugs.

Start reading more philosophy and literature... I know you are probably goal
driven and there's absolutely no real goal in "reading". You just get to see
things differently, with a diferent perspective and that will really help you.

Also, don't forget that days go by really fast, someday you will die. God
might not exist and that might be your last chance to be yourself, so... who
are you?

And please, make real friends and get a girlfriend: you will see how simple
working and making money is, something hard is to make a person happy
everyday(your friends, your girlfriend, the ones that you love...).

~~~
x0ner
I wouldn't agree that I need to be some sort of "special" person or anything
like that. I do view life as something to explore and to enjoy. In my opinion
they sort of go hand-in-hand, but you may disagree. I don't believe in any
sort of destiny and never had a problem with drugs, it was everyone around me
who did.

You are right that I am very goal driven, but I try and read at least 50 books
a year. Most, if not all the books I read tend to be non-fiction, so I may
benefit from actually opening up a classic or well written novel every now and
then. For now I enjoy reading memoirs about the lives of ordinary people and
the different issues they face. Those sort of things give me a different
perspective on how to approach certain topics going forward and I find value
in that.

I agree with your last one, but to seek out people in that way is not always
the best form of doing things. Instead, I go out and try new activities. I
make friends through those things. I talk with people when I am out and if
something happens then great. If not, then it doesn't worry me too much.

I appreciate your response and despite it coming off a little hostile, there
is value in it.

~~~
horofox
So you are basically trying to get advice on something and tell me afterwards
"I'm this, this and that."

I really think that you should reflect more and relax, you are in a good
position comparing people at your age. That is good... but I feel that you
care more about counting the countries that you've visited(like 140
countries!) instead of the moments you had there. I do abstract a lot of
things like that too, but sometimes its time to enjoy the moment.

Well, I hope you find your way and be happy(or get out of boredom)! :D

------
codeslush
I'm willing to bet you've never tried any "mind-altering" drugs - alcohol
included. Am I right? If I am right, don't ever try them!!!

My feeling is that you're addicted to something else - and I would suggest
that "something else" is much better for you than the alternative.

Is this it? Yes it is! Well... yes and no! You might be able to conquer the
world - wouldn't that be great? :-) Your challenge isn't in what you achieve,
it's in what you get satisfaction from. When you conquer the world, when you
make your first million, when you do x, y or z... - that "high" will
eventually leave you void, much like the void you've already defined, both
within yourself and within your family. Your challenge will be finding peace
and pleasure in the normal moments of life. Do you relate to or understand
what I'm saying?

I wish you the best! Not in your achievements, not in your work, not in your
studies - but in your pursuit of happiness for the rest of the moments that
sit in the vast space between your low points and your high points.

~~~
x0ner
I have smoked weed, but all it did was make me think like a normal person (or
at least how I think a normal person would think - no racing from subject to
subject or building complete hypothetical decision trees in your head). I have
and still partake in a few drinks, but with a focus on taste; Microbrewed beer
and good wine is more of what I like.

I know exactly what you are saying and it is funny how you managed to sum up
everything in my post to come to that answer. While I am not depressed, I do
have points of being in a rut where I can't seem to find the happiness I would
have thought to be associated with what I was working towards. Even when I do
find the happiness in things, I tend to side with my mind in saying that it is
not good enough. I can always be a couple seconds faster on the bike, always a
bit smarter in how I structure my code, maybe find someone who is more of what
I like, etc.

Last year I made the goal of accepting things for what they are and not what
they could be. Reaching this will be a life long battle and one that tends to
move much like changing myself and that is slow. This year was focusing more
on my family and realizing that I need to accept that I can't change who they
are. I can't make them better or worse, they are just themselves and I can now
accept that. I imagine other parts of my life will fall in line the same way,
but it requires a lot of effort.

I appreciate your kind words and your very accurate summary.

------
aestetix
1\. Take more risks.

2\. Don't be afraid to fuck up and keep going, provided you learn why you
fucked up and don't do it again.

3\. A good sign that you've done something really worthwhile is that at least
one person is pissed off at you. A good sign you've done something really
stupid is that a lot of people are pissed off at you.

4\. Nobody has a clue about anything. Even the super popular speakers at
DefCon. If someone tries to tell you they have a clue, it's because they
haven't yet realized they don't.

5\. Follow your instinct. If you are bored or unhappy, figure out what's
causing it, and change that. Oh, and take more risks.

------
aaronbrethorst
Love. Love yourself, fall in love, love what you do. Pick whatever order works
best for you.

It sounds like you've figured out quite a bit about yourself at a surprisingly
early age, had a chance to see a decent amount of the world already, and have
had to grow up very quickly. In any case, find something external that really,
truly matters to you. Know thine self, etc.

~~~
x0ner
Figuring myself out is the best and scariest part of all this. It should get
even more interesting if I manage to shoot for the degree in social
psychology.

------
cannikin
I'm a programmer and recently (in the last couple of years, I'm 33) come to
the realization that nothing that I do during my day job is an actual,
tangible _thing_ , nor will it be around 5, 10 or 20 years from now. The thing
I spend most of my waking life doing is flipping some bits on a spinning
magnetized piece of metal. Is that really all there's going to be to life? So
I've worked on two things. Things that permanent and will actually be around
10, 20 or 100 years from now.

First, I'm a fairly proficient woodworker in my spare time in the garage
(started about three years ago). Building a dresser from scratch involves a
lot of the same problem solving challenges that I face as a programmer, but
I'm building an actual tangible _thing_ that exists in the real world and
can't be destroying by a strong magnet. I feel like I'm actually making a
place for myself in the world and doing something useful. I might build a
chair that someone lives with for 30 years and then gives to their children,
who then give it to their children. It's still makes me smile to think about.

Second, I've had a son and will hopefully have another in the next couple
years. As sappy as it sounds, when you really think about it, having children
_is_ the meaning of life. We, as humans, are just our DNA's way of making more
DNA. That's kind of depressing but also extremely amazing and awesome. And
there are millions of kids out there that no longer have parents for whatever
reason, so if you can't have your own then please please consider adopting.
Any of the crap you do in your life, work or travel or building houses, none
of it will mean as much to you as raising a kid. Again, sappy, especially at
23 when you probably couldn't care less about kids. But damn, the fact that
you have another human being who you can teach about the world and will smile
when you walk in the door...it's unbelievable. And the stuff I teach him about
the world now will be with him the rest of his life. I've been a part of
something meaningful that will outlast me.

tl;dr Find a hobby (or job) that actually has some permanence in the world,
and find someone to love and raise a family with.

~~~
c_t_montgomery
I had that same realization. Except I'm 21. It got me kind of bummed at, all
the things I create for the web, aren't tangible. At least yet. Who knows -
maybe some day they will be?

------
littledude
Hey, i'm in my 20's also :)

It may seem normal to you and not a big deal since you kind of dismissed it
but you did describe a childhood full of turmoil (gangs, drugs, parental
issues). You might want to talk to a mental health professional about these
things. Your childhood environment could have made a negative impact you're
not yet aware of.

Other than that, try focusing more on doing things you believe is useful to
the next generation. Feeling valuable to the next generation is hard wired
into humans but often times ignored causing the well known mid-life crisis.
You may have just gotten there a lot faster than the average person.

The things you do to aren't important it's the way you think about what you
do. For example, most people do this by raising kids and feeling responsible
for the process. Another option is to become a mentor to one/many people and
share your wisdom and experience with others. Pretty much anything works even
things generally considered superficial as long as you believe internally
you're doing it to serve others.

------
noname123
I'm 24 and I asked this question when I was 23 and got a lot of responses:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1474094>

Good luck!

------
ulisesroche
You probably just need to aim a lot higher than what you're shooting for right
now, is my opinion.

Does this quote not get you pumped up?

"The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is
responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the
form of computer programs." - Joseph Weizenbaum

How about you, let's say, write a computer game that will make people stay up
all night, or an interactive fiction novel that they can't put down? But don't
give up because it wasn't hard enough or whatever.

------
trbecker
You seem to have a lot of stuff figured out. You stayed out of trouble. You
have a hardcore work ethic. But if you're in doubt, you can always work less
and do something else. And if that doesn't work, go do another thing. At one
moment, you'll figure out what do you want to do. Have you ever tried to play
guitar?

~~~
x0ner
It is the something else that I am unsure of at the moment. Occasionally I get
the thought to head to Africa and help build networks or begin writing some
sort of book, but those things take planning. One thing I need to do is locate
the patience I have seemed to lost in the past years. I have never tried
guitar, but it seems like one of those things that requires patience so it
would fit well. Plus, a part of me has always wanted to play the acoustic
version of karma police.

~~~
trbecker
I see. Guitar is something that requires patience, for sure. Someone can play
well enough to entertain drunk friends with one year of half-assed practice.
To play on a stage, it's way more time of serious practice. It'll hurt,
sometimes it'll take days to see improvements. Rehearse and constant practice
are the key factors to thrive. If you're lacking patience, get a tutor. He
will help you build momentum. The same 'process' is valid for other moments
you may be lacking patience. Get a friend you trust or a psychologist (they
help well-adjusted people too), tell them about your projects, and every time
you're losing patience, call them and tell them, and listen to them. They
should reassure your progress, and help you get back on track.

------
brudgers
It all changes when you have kids...or at least it will if you want it to.

------
kleiba
24.

;-)

