
Repair delays for Tesla owners - prostoalex
https://www.sfgate.com/cars/article/tesla-repair-wait-time-complaints-electric-car-13796037.php
======
nimbius
speaking from experience as an engine mechanic for a small chain of shops in
the midwest, ive done "Tesla authorized" suspension work before and its a
hassle to say the least.

Normal cars and hybrids are mostly an in-and-out kind of thing where the
billable hours are fixed/known and you get a real choice in parts. Bilstein vs
generic shocks or holly cams for example. With tesla, _everything_ has to come
from California. Control arms for example, which i could probably find one
that will fit any Tesla, must be shipped from a warehouse certified. This took
5 weeks to deliver and the customer was furious that we would not keep the car
in our garage for that long. Luckily they were close to the shop, so we waived
a second tow charge and after a seriously long wait for parts, got the vehicle
back on the road again.

Tesla sometimes makes you do weird things like ship the old arms/linkage/etc..
back to them. Other times you might need to take pictures expressly for them,
or call them after work is completed. Its a serious PITA for a car that could
easily just get TRG or Moog aftermarket arms in about 3 days, but if you do,
youll lose your "tesla certified" status in a heartbeat.

~~~
420codebro
Wow - That sounds like a massive logistical efficiency failure.

I could even see people tolerating higher prices (as it is a Tesla, etc) - but
that long of a delay is insane. I wonder how many Tesla owners regret their
purchase after experiencing a crazy-ass long delay like that.

To be clear: I want Tesla to succeed. However I am also a realist - they have
a lot of PR issues that would sink them if they were for example
Ford/Chevy/BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc.

~~~
dangrossman
> To be clear: I want Tesla to succeed.

Isn't it strange how often similar posturing appears in comments about Tesla.
There aren't any secret SV police that are going to break down your door and
take away your "we're saving the world" card if you say something "realist"
about Tesla without a disclaimer.

~~~
fisherjeff
Well I think that’s probably because there are a lot of very vocal people who
seem to think that negative feedback must mean you’re a short seller and take
that as permission to engage non-constructively.

Disclaimer: I also want Tesla to succeed

~~~
gumby
Interesting, as it feels to me like people take anything positive about that
company as gospel.

Disclaimer: I don't give a fig either way whether the company succeeds or
fails though I have a very hard time understanding how they can ever maintain
their mkt cap.

~~~
PButtNutter
The media in general hypes up Tesla way more than any other automaker. Like
every Tesla crash makes headlines. Name any other automaker that faces the
same scrutiny.

~~~
fucking_tragedy
> _Name any other automaker that faces the same scrutiny._

Name any other automaker that makes claims like these about their automatic
cruise control: " _the person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal
reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself._ "[1]

[1]
[https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/05/23/49...](https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/05/23/490104.htm)

~~~
kjksf
How about Ford: full self-driving by 2021.

[https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/ford-plans-a-ride-sharing-
se...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/ford-plans-a-ride-sharing-service-with-
its-self-driving-cars-by-2021.html)

[https://corporate.ford.com/articles/autonomous-
technology/au...](https://corporate.ford.com/articles/autonomous-
technology/autonomous-2021.html)

Tesla thinks they can get there faster by a year.

~~~
fucking_tragedy
Did you read my comment? Tesla didn't claim that they can get there faster,
Tesla claimed that their automatic cruise control doesn't require a driver at
all.

Again, here is what Tesla claimed:

> _" the person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is
> not doing anything. The car is driving itself."_

Ford has never made a claim that spurious and dangerous like Tesla has.

------
vkhn
This story sounds so familiar it's painful.

Took 5 months to get my 2016 Model S back after I was hit.

I loved this car, but frankly I never again want to deal with them. Cancelled
my Model 3 order, and now tell everyone that asks me about the car to stay
away.

~~~
rickmode
4 months for my 2016 Model S. Most of this time (all but 2 weeks, I think) was
waiting for airbag related parts. Missed the entire summer last year --
accident in May, got the car back in September. Suffered crappy rental cars.

This was a lease, and my wife and I did not get another after the lease
return. Definitely makes me hesitant about getting another.

------
yalogin
Tesla is terrible when to comes to service. They actively discourage you from
going to the service center. You cannot talk to people on the phone as the
wait time is always more than 30 mins. They are stretched really thin in the
service department. They need to at least have three times the staff and
centers they have today.

Interestingly I haven’t seen one thread about this on r/Tesla over on reddit.
They completely pray at the altar of Musk.

~~~
freerobby
This doesn't reflect my experience at all.

I've been to the Dedham and Watertown MA service centers about a dozen times
in the last four years. I've never had to wait more than 2 minutes on the
phone or at the counter. I have had a couple emails get lost, but after a bump
or two I got the answers I needed.

Appointments do book out a few weeks, but scheduling is pretty easy
(especially now that it's all online). The one time something urgent came up
with my car, they took me without an appointment, and even put me in a rental
car since they were out of loaners.

I've never had service anywhere near that good when I had a Toyota or a
Subaru.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Why has your brand-new car had to go in for service ~12 times in 4 years?
Isn't that exactly the issue being discussed? I drive a 15-year-old station
wagon, and I'm averaging around half that.

~~~
DKnoll
If you've brought your car in for service only 6 times in 4 years you're
either doing some service yourself or falling behind on your maintenance
schedule. In 4 years you should be changing your oil alone at least 8 times,
16 if you use conventional instead of synthetic.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Either you have a car with an engine that was engineered in the 1970s, or
you're getting seriously ripped off.

If you look at what the _people who sell motor oil_ recommend, it's 7500 to
10000 miles between oil changes. E.g. here: [http://www.elf.com/en/advice-
corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthe...](http://www.elf.com/en/advice-
corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthetic-oil-change-interval.html)

Some manufacturers are specifying 25k - 30k km these days

And I do in fact change engine oil myself. Undo one bolt to drain, take off
the filter and install a new one, refill oil. Takes 30 minutes including some
time for having a beer while you wait for the last bit to drain.

It's almost as easy as changing out your windshield wipers and refilling
washer fluid. My point is, it makes zero sense to include basic stuff like
this in a discussion on reliability.

~~~
DKnoll
Most people take their car in to a service centre for even basic maintenance,
which is why I mentioned it. Obviously a Tesla doesn't have engine oil, but it
has other wear items. Since you do some basic maintenance yourself this easily
explains why you take your vehicle in for service less.

I refer to the maintenance schedule of the vehicle manufacturer, which
specifies an interval much less than 30k km in most cases. I replace synthetic
oil every 8k km. I was referring to the time interval in my previous comment
which is max 6 months for synthetic.

I am aware changing oil is easy. I do it myself during the summer months (I
don't have a garage). My vehicle is from 2011 also.

~~~
gamblor956
You're changing your oil way too frequently, unless you have a luxury car, in
which case your vehicle's maintenance schedule is non-standard anyways and not
really relevant to the discussion at hand.

~~~
DKnoll
I drive a Ford sedan from 2011.

~~~
gamblor956
As do I...You shouldn't be replacing your oil multiple times a year. Unless
you drive a lot (i.e., 10k+ miles a year, meaning >27 miles/day every day of
the year or >40 miles every work day of the year), you should be able to go
2-3 years between oil changes.

~~~
DKnoll
I do drive a fair bit, easily over 10k miles in a year. Changing oil
frequently may sound like a ripoff but doing it on time helps you avoid more
expensive service down the road. I've seen enough pictures of engines full of
sludge because the owner thought he didn't have to change it. Beyond being
preventative maintenance, it also improves fuel economy.

Keep in mind that most people recommend changing synthetic oil every 6 months,
even Edmunds.com which you mentioned earlier (ctrl+F '6 months',
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-
truths...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths/))

~~~
gamblor956
Edmunds doese not recommend every 6 months for synthetic oil, they took down
that article after Scientific American posted it. They recommend oil changes
based on a miles driven, or else when your car's oil monitoring system says
the oil needs to be changed. (For example, Edmunds explicitly notes that a car
like a Toyota Prius should only have its oil changed roughly once a year or
roughly every 10,000 miles.)

[https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/when-should-you-
chan...](https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/when-should-you-change-your-
oil.html)

~~~
DKnoll
They say this in the first paragraph: > follow the automaker's recommended
service intervals.

If I had a Prius I might change my oil every year. I instead follow the
manufacturer (Ford) provided service schedule for my car. I have a feeling the
15 year old station wagon I commented regarding at the beginning of this
thread is closer to my car than a Prius.

Using a Prius maintenance schedule to be representative of the last 30 years
of ICE cars doesn't make sense, you might as well compare with a lawn mower at
that point.

------
Robotbeat
If Tesla was making 10 times as many cars, I doubt this would be a serious
issue. Much of it is a matter of scale.

Tesla is doing something nearly impossible. I'm not surprised it's having
difficulties here. It has always been the case that failure is a serious
possibility.

Not only is starting a car company hard, but an electric car company is
especially hard. Margins are so thin in carmaking in general, that you depend
on scale to make things like maintenance doable.

With gas prices low and EV credits disappearing, the natural outcome of all
these pressures when fossil fuels are not paying for their externalities is
that the electric car maker will fail.

And unfortunately, it's not like other electric car makers in the US are doing
any better. EVs tend to be a loss-leader (halo cars or compliance cars) for
traditional manufacturers. GM ended their Volt production. And my experience
on Volt forums is that it's incredibly hard to get dealers to service electric
cars because they also don't have qualified staff. And that's for vehicles
that can take advantage of the GM ecosystem for things that aren't powertrain
related. I own a Volt and a Leaf. The Leaf also has had many issues with
powertrain maintenance (more than Tesla) in spite of using a very similar
vehicle platform to the traditional vehicles Nissan produces.

I look at those saying we have to pull out all stops to address 1.5 degrees C
of climate warming, and then I look at our utter failure to pass meaningful
federal measures to support electrification of transport, even letting our
previous ones expire while China takes enormous strides in standing up their
electric vehicle industry... It's as if we literally don't care. We're just
going to let the American electric car industry fail. In fact, several states
are passing and have passed extra taxes on electric vehicles in order to
"compensate" for lost gas tax revenue (although basically universally over-
estimating how many miles EV owners drive per year, thus actually taxing them
HIGHER than gas drivers).

...and considering all that (Losing a $7500 credit and gas prices now about
$6000 less over the life of the car compared to a few years ago), I actually
think Tesla is doing fairly well. They're going to have to quickly expand
beyond America, though, because we are failing them.

EDIT: Rivian is in a similar boat. Their products look amazing, but they're
starting from scratch in a low-margin business at a time of low gas prices.
Hopefully both Rivian and Tesla can make it. But without the support from the
federal government like firms in Europe and especially China, it's quite
possible both will fail.

~~~
Waterluvian
Aren't electric cars especially easy? Don't they have fewer parts?

~~~
Robotbeat
Not _good_ electric cars. Batteries are still a large portion of the cost, and
so a modest electric car effort will end up over-spending on the battery,
being over-weight, and with too low of a range without very careful attention
to efficiency. Compare the per-mike efficiency of the e-tron vs the Tesla
Model X.

...it also increases charging infrastructure costs.

~~~
yoavm
I don't think that's what the parent post was asking. Yes, batteries are
expensive. Yes, EVs are heavy. But they are also simpler than ICE and they
have less parts. Even _good_ electric cars. If you wanted to build a car in
your backyard, it'll be a much easier process if you go electric.

~~~
Robotbeat
I don't disagree with that. I once was considering doing an EV conversion,
back before modern EVs like the Leaf and the Volt were available. But
unfortunately, doing this at scale and competitively is still very difficult
to get right. You really have to start basically from scratch like Tesla or
Rivian to have an optimized result.

------
2Ccltvcm
Anybody involved with Tesla in any way should at least watch The Fantastic
Case of the Missing Tesla by Rich [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezqwfha-
BZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezqwfha-BZ8)

------
magnetic
As a Model S owner, this is one of the things that worries me a lot. I rely on
my Model S to make my commute "bearable" (via Carpool lane use), which even a
covered insurance rental car isn't likely to enable.

Doubling my commute time for months would drive me nuts.

I hope an infusion of cash is going to help the parts department and decrease
the latency around parts getting built.

I hope that the new insurance business they are getting into will take this
into account: I'd pay extra to have my insurance give me an exact same loaner
with the same "carpool friendly" characteristics while my car is in the shop.
When insurance companies are on the hook to pay for a rental during repairs,
they tend to ensure that the repairs don't take too long, as they have an
incentive to minimize their rental costs: that's a good thing because it means
the incentives are aligned with the customer.

~~~
idlewords
Wait, single-occupant Tesla cars get to use the carpool lane?

Thanks for giving me another reason to hate this company. It's not easy
anymore but it turns out there is always something new if you read enough of
these threads.

~~~
wpietri
In CA, yes. It's mainly a high-occupancy vehicle lane, but some "clean-air"
vehicles also are allowed:
[http://www.dot.ca.gov/trafficops/tm/hov.html](http://www.dot.ca.gov/trafficops/tm/hov.html)

That strikes me as similar to the subsidy that Tesla got. It's a reasonable
thing to do so that we start shifting away fossil carbon, but it should expire
in short order.

------
Animats
You can see the backup at Chilton Auto Body in San Carlos in Google Maps.[1]

[1]
[https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5178956,-122.2656497,107m/da...](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5178956,-122.2656497,107m/data=!3m1!1e3)

~~~
jstandard
A friend of mine is the head painter at Chilton San Carlos. He said the volume
there currently is absolutely insane as the Model 3 has ramped.

They are swimming in wrecked or poorly put together Model S/3s.

His accounts match the tone of the article, though Chilton experiences it to a
lesser extent since they're so close to the Tesla mothership.

------
manav
Early last year it took me around 2 months to get a windshield replaced on a
2016 Model S. From what I understand, they have changed the design of so many
components as they iterate that they often have to custom order parts to
support "older" vehicles.

On the other hand, my Model 3 has needed critical servicing for the last 6
months but they haven't received the parts in yet (I also live next to the
factory in Fremont).

It can be a hassle, but they are a young car company and I'm willing to put up
with beta testing their cars because I want the company to succeed and I do
still prefer their products compared to anything else on the market.

------
warp_factor
reading the comments, I'm really amazed to see so many owners that complain
about lengthy delays, but are "ready to put with it" because they want Tesla
to succeed.

This would never fly for any other car companies.

Once more, it confirms to me that people buy a Tesla as a symbol//cult more
than as a vehicle. Teslafans want to be recognized as those next level earth-
friendly yuppies socialites. And it really scares me to see how many here go
blindly with it.

------
akvadrako
There is also a Dutch Tesla rental company that recently decided to close shop
because they couldn’t get replacement parts for their fleet.

------
dpifke
In my experience, the convenience of Tesla's mobile service—they come to you
for most repairs—somewhat offsets the slow parts delivery time.

One of my neighbors took out the passenger side mirror on my model S (knocked
the whole assembly clean off). It took about a week to get the replacement
parts, but once the parts were in, we scheduled a time for them to come out
and fix it in the parking lot next to my apartment. No driving halfway across
town to a dealership, waiting around, or having to arrange transportation to
pick my car back up. A similar repair for my BMW would have consumed at least
half a day of my time - this took 5-10 minutes at most. (And the tech was way
more friendly and knowledgeable than anyone I've ever dealt with at a
dealership.)

~~~
mdorazio
FWIW, many aftermarket repair services and even some dealerships offer the
same kind of service, too. For example, when someone broke a window on my
civic, a local glass replacement place came out the next day and fixed it at
my office parking lot. However, it’s important to note that there’s a
difference between this kind of basic repair work and something complex like
replacing a brake assembly, which requires a lot more equipment.

------
privateSFacct
Very well known issue among tesla fans. Been going on a long time so promises
of a quick fix are just that unfortunately.

If you are a bit higher income / time is money type of person or situation,
lack of parts avail for repair (and the time /hassle that causes) and/or an
inability to get at home EV charging would be the only two reasons not to get
a tesla I think.

I am very grateful for folks who have flagged this up. If you hate getting the
service runaround on car repairs (waste of time / etc) then the heads up we
are getting on this is critical really.

Currently drive an Audi - obviously planned on going to Tesla but holding off
until this get's sorted.

------
chomp
Is this a regional issue? Haven't had this problem at all in Texas. Scheduled
maintenance and my car was returned in only a couple days.

~~~
chrisseaton
> in only a couple days

Is taking days normal or reasonable for car maintenance? I've never had my
conventional car in for maintenance for more than about six hours.

~~~
cptskippy
That really depends on the type of maintenance. I've had situations where
Honda kept my car for 24-48 hours because they needed to source a part and I'd
scheduled the maintenance for a Saturday.

I've also had situations where an issue was discovered during regular
maintenance and Honda again asked to keep the car and rectify the problem
under warranty. In that case it was a cracked engine block and they said
"that's not suppose to happen". It took a few days to fix.

~~~
stcredzero
_I 've had situations where Honda kept my car for 24-48 hours because they
needed to source a part_

I've had this as well with Honda and Mercedes cars. When it comes to
utilitarian cars, one thing you want to look for is the parts being as much a
commodity as possible.

Mercedes used to stock all the parts for what seemed like all of their models.
Then they stopped. I should have taken that as a sign!

~~~
cptskippy
I would love to hear how most garages operate. It seems like most don't stock
more than basic commodity parts anymore (e.g. oil filters, belts, pads,
filters) but have means to get parts within hours worst case.

~~~
bdavis__
parts stores deliver to mechanics and garages many times a day. no app needed,
they use the phone. so, when you need a starter for a 1992 honda, they call
the closest parts store and a 'parts runner' delivers it.

------
powerbroker
I almost picked up a part from two states over when Tesla went radio silent
for a month plus after 2 months of 'repairs'. Absolute worst customer service
I have ever experienced.

------
labmixz
I suppose you don't frequent the Tesla user forums or any YouTube Tesla
channel?

It's been a topic for a very long time, not just repair delays, but basic
maintenance needing to be scheduled months out.

~~~
willio58
So should everyone stop reporting on the failures of a company? I’m hopeful
Tesla figures these problems out, but media pressure can only really help in
this situation.

------
zhoujianfu
Just adding that my model X has been in the shop since December 30th (self-
drove into a highway divider.. nobody was hurt). So up over 4 months now and
I'm just assuming there's no chance I'm getting it back before labor day.

~~~
askafriend
I'm curious. What happens when your Tesla is in the shop? Do they give you a
loaner Tesla for the entire time?

~~~
r_singh
Hopefully have another spare vehicle at home or Uber/Lyft I guess

------
close04
Tesla needs to develop a network of partner garages where mechanics are
properly trained, needed parts are supplied quickly, and car owners can get to
in a convenient manner. Post sale experience is just as important as show-room
experience. Tesla focuses more on pre-sale (ludicrous mode, autopilot) because
the garage experience is only visible long after sale.

A few years ago I had to do some work on the suspension of my car (replace 2
springs) and everything was done in about 4-6 hours, including the regular
checks and some other minor stuff. It took about 2h for the parts the mechanic
ordered next to me to arrive. One acquaintance with a Model S waited ~10-12
days for more or less the same kind of work (he could still drive the car but
still). And that's because we're in a region with easy access to anything,
especially auto-related.

~~~
frosted-flakes
> Tesla needs to develop a network of partner garages where mechanics are
> properly trained, needed parts are supplied quickly, and car owners can get
> to in a convenient manner.

Yeah. We could call them _dealerships_ , of which there are none for Tesla. I
hear that's part of the reason they can get away with not releasing diagnostic
tools, parts, etc. to third parties.

~~~
close04
Not necessarily dealerships. I used plenty of "independent" service networks
(repair-only shops), not strictly affiliated with a particular brand but
authorized by them. They have mechanics trained for the brands, access to
spare parts, etc.

I'm not sure it's a matter of "getting away". I would have thought it's in
their interest to offer a solid support network after sale. I wonder if the
tight control is due to not having enough capacity to make enough (spare)
parts.

------
newnewpdro
Hopefully with their decision to raise money they can afford to improve this
situation.

