
Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown - tethys
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-germany/facebooks-data-gathering-hit-by-german-anti-trust-clampdown-idUSKCN1PW0SW
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jplayer01
I wish anti-trust regulators would actually _do_ something. The unchecked
power and behavior of corporations is depressing. Take WhatsApp away from
Facebook. They broke the one condition there was for the acquisition to be
allowed. They have no legal or moral right to continue owning it.

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Grollicus
If I remember correctly Facebook was only allowed to buy Whatsapp in France
because they promised not to share user data between the two services. The
German data protection agency basically didn't say anything only because the
french said it already.

Now Facebook does it's mix-and-mash anyways.

I'd have expected to hear something out of France about this. Did I just miss
it?

~~~
mediumdeviation
Facebook has already been fined by the European commission in 2017 to the tune
of 110M Euros over this. It is a drop in the bucket compared to the billions
Facebook paid for WhatsApp though - so small one suspect Facebook might have
already factored it into the cost of the acquisition.

[1]: [https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/18/facebook-
fi...](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/18/facebook-fined-eu-
whatsapp-european-commission)

~~~
Isn0gud
Isn't the point of fines to punish past bad behaviour? Why aren't there
escalating fines if a company continues to not comply with rulings? I mean it
is not a one time thing that can't be changed.

Sorry for asking, I know next to nothing about how these laws work.

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ardy42
> If Facebook fails to comply, the cartel office could impose fines of up to
> 10 percent of the company’s annual global revenues, which grew by 37 percent
> to $55.8 billion last year.

I hope they go for the maximum fine.

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chvid
What about Google? (With their Adsense, analytics, email, search ... setup
...)

~~~
chewz
I hope Google will also be one day forced to use permissions on per app and
per service base.

If I want to give Google Maps access to my location it means only Maps and for
limited scope not all across Google ecosystem.

Android is constantly nagging me to turn on location and wifi scanning for
example to use Google Home. It doesn't make sense - they could use SSID of my
home wifi to make sure that I am home. Where my home is is not their business.

~~~
jasonvorhe
So you want to use ad-supported services without feeding the ad-system that
keeps the services running? Why do think you have a right to use Google Maps
without supporting the underlaying business model?

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rsj_hn
Google maps can charge for API use. They already do. Services can charge money
-- not everything has to be ad supported. Business models aren't inviolate
things -- they exploit existing regulations. When the regulations change, then
so do the business models.

~~~
RestlessMind
Then why do you use ad-supported services rather than going for the ones which
do not collect your data and instead charge you money directly?

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rsj_hn
Pretty much all services make money from tracking you because it's legal and
doesn't cost them anything.

Even those that charge. E.g. google maps will charge the vendor and still
track the user. A WSJ subscription will still have tracking code and third
party js, etc.

As long as it's free for the service and there are no penalties, then of
course they will try to collect as much data on you as you allow them to
collect. But it's your responsibility as an internet user to prevent them from
collecting anything that you don't approve of, and to block third parties from
injecting their code into your equipment unless you vet that code or otherwise
trust it. When stuff like spying and data collection is outlawed, this creates
economic room for honest players to participate in honest business practices.
We're just not there yet.

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mschuster91
Facebook's statement is... interesting.

> The Bundeskartellamt underestimates the fierce competition we face in
> Germany

Which competition? The only viable social network in Germany that came close
to Facebook was Lokalisten, which shuttered finally in 2016.

~~~
expertentipp
Domestic data hoarders and advertisers - extremely invasive and territorial.
The difference is that none of them runs social networking website or mobile
messenger app, thus without consumer facing facade many uninformed assume they
don't exist. e.g. their media and retail oligopolies like to roll out their
own ad, tracking, and loyalty programs to have full control of the data. They
don't let anyone in and are trying to expand, clumsily, to other EU countries.

~~~
detaro
What does "other data collectors exist" have to do with Facebook's status as
the dominating social network (95% (measuring DAUs)/80% (measuring MAUs)
market share according to the press release)? Facebook also clearly cites
other social media companies/networks from a wider scope in defense, not data
collectors.

~~~
wolfi1
there are other relevant collectors as well for example Deutsche Post (German
Postal Services), see [https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-post-sold-voter-
microtargetin...](https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-post-sold-voter-
microtargeting-data-to-cdu-and-fdp/a-43218488)

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wtmt
> “The decision by the cartel authority, known as the Bundeskartellamt in
> German, allows Facebook to continue collecting data from its services like
> WhatsApp and Instagram. But the company will not be permitted to link this
> information to Facebook user accounts unless a user has explicitly
> consented.”

Facebook will just get away with a dark pattern of showing some new consent
agreement to “improve your user experience” and nag people until they accept
out of frustration.

Can’t any regulators just say, “No, you can’t do this under any circumstances.
Period.”? Or come up with laws that prohibit these practices, knowing fully
well the size and influence of Facebook and its properties (applying it to
similar companies/models as well)?

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pmlnr
Part of me cheers.

The realist in me goes "yay, more annoying consent popups" :(

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dreamcompiler
I hope they force FB to destroy all information harvested on users in the past
too.

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buboard
Finally, it is time for gesichtbuch.de to shine

~~~
levosmetalo
It's owned by facebook.

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Vrpe
What really interests me is the lack of scrutiny towards Google. It all seems
focused on Facebook, meanwhile what Facebook did was set a trend that others
followed. Hopefully there is more to come, but it is definitely too little too
late.

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jasonvorhe
Whataboutism?

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Vrpe
I did not mean for it to come out seeming like whataboutism. I just meant we
should also look into Google's practices. Absolutely not excusing Facebook for
what they chose to do.

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duxup
Going by Facebook's history .... what are the chances they abide by any of
this?

Facebook has shown they're going to do what they want how they want regardless
of public perception, deals with other companies, other company rules, and
arguably laws already in place.

