

NYC Just Converted 10 Payphones into Free WiFi Hotspots - casemorton
http://thenextweb.com/us/2012/07/11/nyc-is-turning-payphones-into-free-wifi-hotspots-10-kiosks-launch-today/

======
josefresco
But doesn't this hurt private Internet providers? Free wifi damages their
ability to succeed in the marketplace.

I said that tongue-in-cheek but that is the counter argument to free or
municipal wifi projects.

~~~
untog
Other city-run free wifi initiatives have actually been run with AT&T. So, in
conclusion: I have no idea.

------
PhrosTT
Somebody Zero Cool, Acid Burn, and Crash Override - they can now rollerblade
up to payphones again.

------
pavel_lishin
I wonder how long it'll take someone to set up a fake hotspot with an
identical name right next to it.

~~~
malandrew
This is actually a pretty serious legit concern that I'm surprised we haven't
seen a proper solution for.

I feel like there should be some sort of trusted certificates or other method
to determine whether or not you can trust the access point and alert the user
when they may be moving sensitive info over that network.

~~~
trotsky
For a variety of reasons it doesn't really matter if you authenticate the
hotspot if the rest of the traffic goes in the clear as unless you also do key
exchange as part of the authentication and then use it for protecting your
traffic someone could just forward the authentication to a real box and then
take over or simply hijack your connection after you've authenticated. There
is also the problem of wide deployments like coffee shops making it pretty
easy to steal certificates.

WPA Enterprise / WPA2 Enterprise with PEAP (and several other flavors)
includes a server certificate as part of the authentication process that you
can validate before supplying your credentials. While it's not perfect, you
can run public wifi with WPA2 Enterprise and just set the login to guest and a
blank password (and say that in the ESSID). That allows anyone to connect but
still allows them to authenticate the hotspot and have a fair level of
protection from session snooping or hijacking.

Realistically future versions of 802.11 should use some type of system like
that for unprotected connections, but they don't seem very interested.

~~~
yuhong
Yea, EAP-TLS was one of the oldest EAP methods, and the client certificate is
actually optional per the spec, though most supplicants require it (using a
dummy cert is the workaround).

------
olalonde
Hong Kong already does this. Practically all their pay phones are WiFi
hotspots operated by PCCW. In fact, it's hard not too find a WiFi hotspot
within 100m in Hong Kong.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
Do you know if the wi-fi coverage is sufficient to where you could ditch
having a cell phone? Just use an iPod Touch with Skype + Gtalk or something?

~~~
Retric
wi-fi does not allow you to take calls while driving. So, it's just a question
of how much convince your willing to give up to avoid a cellphone bill.

~~~
specialist
My employer has "roaming" wifi. I can walk around, change floors, change
buildings and not lose connection. I don't know how they do it. It's very
cool.

Compared to... I was contracting at AT&T Wireless for a few months. Worst
enterprise IT I've experienced. Getting a desk phone to work was near
impossible. No one could access their voicemail. No voicemail - email bridge.
The in-house chat/voice conferencing didn't work (stutter, dropped
connections, couldn't login). You'd lose wifi connection walking down the
hall, requiring full reauthentication for everything (signin, VPN, db
connections, etc).

------
babblingdweeb
Random event: I just walked by one of these (Grand Central-UN area) on my way
to the library today and said "Wow. I wonder why I didn't hear about this
before...or see it before?" So I started looking for other payphones/WiFi-
stations and didn't see one.

Great idea.

~~~
dmckeon
I wonder if hotels, and other businesses that want to attract taxi drivers
awaiting fares, will push to convert nearby pay phones to WiFi, thinking
drivers might prefer to wait near a WiFi hotspot.

------
zmmmmm
I always wondered why telcos haven't made a business model out of this. It is
too late now that 3g/4g is pervasive and fast enough, but for a period of
about 7-8 years they could so easily have wired DSL to all those idle pay
phones around the city and I would easily have paid $10/month (or more) to
have Wifi connectivity when I was out and about.

~~~
rjb
I remember in 2000 or 2001 a company in Chicago negotiated with Ameritech to
put hotspots on the top of telephone poles around the city for something like
$3/mo. The deal ended up falling through... I think too many parties had to
get involved that it just became a nightmare to deal with.

~~~
syedkarim
You might be referring to Ricochet Wireless.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricochet_(Internet_service)>

------
kleiba
I'm wondering what some of the legal consequences would be if a project like
that were implemented in Europe.

In Germany (and other countries), if you as a private person do not secure
your wi-fi, and someone else piggybacks on it to do something illegal (say,
download pirated data) you are liable.

What is the situation in the states? If the legal situation is similar, does
it make a difference if the open wi-fi is provided by a city rather than a
private person? Obviously it wouldn't be piggybacking when the free wi-fi is
intended to be used by others, I wonder if that makes a difference. Also,
could ToS be used to avoid the liability issue for a city?

Also, in the EU, ISPs are required to store the connection data of all
customers for six months. Would a city that provides free wi-fi be considered
an ISP and thus have to store all connection data too?

------
kalleboo
The Swedish telco Telia converted all their phone booths to Wifi hotspots a
few years ago, but it's a pay service.

------
jrockway
Ah yes, standing around and taking pictures in the bike lane. Just like
everyone else in NYC...

~~~
apgwoz
... while the bikers attempting to use the bike lanes get ticketed for riding
in the street when a bike lane was available. (yes, this does happen, despite
the law saying that a biker can leave the bike lane if an obstruction makes it
unsafe to ride within it)

------
caublestone
If people like the government setting up wi-fi hotspots, would people be open
to sharing their wi-fi hotspots (securely) for the chance to roam across other
wi-fi hotspots? As in, blanket the city in a grass roots network.

Love to see cities that care about their users..er citizens.

~~~
trentmb
I don't feel like having SWAT storm my house at 3am because some idiot posted
a death threat using my wifi.

------
DasIch
The Telekom (parent of T-Mobile) has been doing that as well in Germany,
although they are not free. Berlin has probably almost full coverage.

------
ChuckMcM
I don't get the 'free' bit. I mean a pay phone was just that an opportunity to
plug into the communication network for money, why not a 'pay hotspot' ? Now I
could see that NYC could create a token system which would make using a
licensed paid hot spot practical, but don't see what they are trying to
achieve with free access here.

~~~
jrockway
_I don't see what they are trying to achieve with free access here._

Probably the same thing they're trying to achieve with free streets, trees,
parks, and so on: making the city more livable for those that pay taxes there.
(And trust me, we pay a lot of taxes.)

~~~
ChuckMcM
Fair enough, I think you can make a reasonable argument that network
communication is a basic city service like sewers and sidewalks, so why
wouldn't that argument also require a taxpayer funded phone service? If you go
the whole basic service argument then not only do you provide a wifi hotspot
but you also provide a way for someone to browse the web, send and receive
email, and maybe chat at these same kiosks. If you don't provide that then you
run into the social justice argument that you are discriminating against the
poor who can't afford a smartphone or laptop to hop onto the 'free' WiFi in
favor of the rich. Whereas if you charge for the access and dump that money
into the general fund (after expenses of course) then its a service fee that
achieves a socially acceptable taxation of people with more disposable income
to provide services to those without. So do you see my confusion?

~~~
jrockway
All I can tell you is that's not how the world works. My taxes pay for a ton
of things I can't use; I don't have a car, so I can't drive through the
Lincoln Tunnel. That doesn't mean it's not in society's best interest to pay
for it anyway.

