
The Streets of San Francisco - wyclif
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-streets-of-san-francisco-11570143083?mod=rsswn
======
clay_the_ripper
Despite the clearly conservative leanings of this article (and I consider
myself a moderate liberal) on this issue I whole-heartedly agree. I live in
San Francisco, and to be quite honest the city is a disgrace. At what point do
we draw the line between “let’s not lock people up for stupid reasons” and
“literally anything goes whatsoever”. This city’s well-intentioned voters and
government have created a monster. The city is disgusting. I would not advise
anyone to visit. Recently some out of town friends visited and were horrified.
They were accosted multiple times by homeless people. The trash, drug use and
general squalor has gone completely overboard. And what’s the response? More
services, more spending, more drug programs. And it’s just getting worse! I
pay a massive premium to live here, but next year I’m moving out of the city.

It’s really sad to see so many people desperate and poor, but we essentially
told them to come here, that we would pay for services for them and also, feel
free to commit any crimes you want. Ridiculous.

~~~
xivzgrev
What does accosted by homeless people mean? I’ve lived in SF over 5 years and
I’ve yet to be physically touched or yelled at by one.

Now what DOES happen often is someone is loudly talking or yelling to
themselves, and if you look at them or get close to them then they may react
to you. I just steer clear of the craziness. Maybe your friends got caught up
in that?

~~~
hisnameisjimmy
That seems impossible. Where do you live in SF? Do you ever take public
transit?

~~~
changchuming
Maybe OP is just a 280-pound giant so nobody dares to get in his way. Could be
possible.

~~~
proverbialbunny
It's usually the other way around. Females are far less likely to get
physically attacked.

~~~
newnewpdro
Really?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAgjaV_EPbs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAgjaV_EPbs)

I remember the day that assault was reported on the news. It made my friends
and myself seriously question what the hell is going on the streets of our
city.

It's common to prey on the weak and vulnerable. Why make it harder on
yourself? Just get a job at that point.

~~~
proverbialbunny
Yep. It's a good example of how reality breaks common expectations.

I suspect it's because females tend to avoid physical confrontation like the
plague and some men will stand up if someone gets in their face. But it's only
a guess as to why it is the case.

~~~
newnewpdro
I've definitely had big friends in the past who were always getting shit
started with them, even just walking down the street between bars in a group
they'd out of nowhere have a stranger single them out, shoulder them while
walking past, and voila now there's a street fight.

But that's rather different, it's more about sport than crime. Half the time
they'd become drinking buddies afterwards.

When desperate people are on the prowl for people to rob however, I don't
believe it's typical for them to prefer tougher targets. My understanding is
most thefts are opportunistic and unattended, which tells me there's obviously
a preference for less resistance, not more.

------
physcab
I’ve lived in SF for 10 years and my family of 4 is finally moving out. Part
of it is economic as we can’t really afford to raise kids here. Part of it is
rapid deterioration of public spaces. The breaking point was someone blocking
my apartment door by shooting up heroin when I brought my newborn son home
from the hospital.

It’s not bad everywhere. The Marina, Noe, Pac Heights, Cole Valley, Outer
Sunset, and parts of Richmond districts all manage to keep their neighborhoods
clean. The mission feels like a 3rd world country.

I’m democrat but I would most certainly vote in a hard line republican DA to
take a stand. I’m done having my car broken into and literally shat on. I’m
tired of seeing piles and piles of trash like we’re living in some kind of
garbage mound. People just don’t care.

It wasn’t this bad even 3 years ago, but it’s certainly taken a turn for the
worse. It’s untenable.

------
clay_the_ripper
I currently live in San Francisco. I’m moving in January after 1 year.

The premium I pay to live here is insane, yet the city elects to tolerate a
totally unacceptable Level of crime, drug use and general squalor. I don’t
think we should lock people up for being drug addicts, but where do we draw
the line between “locking people up for stupid reasons” and “literally do
anything you want with no consequences”. No one here even calls the police for
the blantanty criminal and disruptive behavior of mentally ill homeless
people. The police won’t show up/do anything.

I’m a pretty liberal person, but honestly the conservative media has it right
with the situation in San Francisco. We spend a crapload of money every year
on programs to help these people, at the total expense of law abiding tax
paying citizens. While I believe the government is well intentioned, enough is
enough. Do I and my neighbors not have a right to live in a habitable city? I
had out of town friends visit from overseas and they were appalled. They were
accosted multiple times and were afraid to walk around. I don’t blame them. I
would not recommend anyone to visit this city. Good bye sf, I won’t be back.

------
hisnameisjimmy
I've been living in San Francisco for 7 years and it just feels lawless.

I've been kicked while riding my bike, I've had people come up and start
screaming obscenities at me, I've been followed for multiple blocks by someone
yelling at me, I've been threatened, I've witnessed people shooting up heroin
and smoking crack in broad daylight dozens of times, I've seen a man pee
himself in his wheelchair. The list goes on and on. Sure, you're going to see
more intense concentrations of this stuff in the Mission and the Tenderloin,
but, damn.

The sidewalks and streets are disgusting. The city just doesn't seem like it's
actually governed. All the city supervisors seem to care about is blocking new
housing because that's what their constituents want.

You see enough of this stuff and you just start to try and ignore it. But it
eats at me. Seeing people every day enduring levels of despair that are
completely depraved hurts the soul.

~~~
tonystubblebine
It's good that that much despair eats at you--it means you are human. A former
editor of the Street Sheet wrote a nice article about how people can respond
to the homeless that we encounter: [https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-
be-a-better-neighbor...](https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-be-a-better-
neighbor-to-homeless-people-5ab230d2c738)

What the article doesn't cover though is the silicon valley obsession with
scale. A lot of us walk by the homeless either implicitly or explicitly
thinking we are going to a job that is going to change the world. And that may
be true.

But there's a different school of thought that the most effective social
change is done locally--where you personally know the people and the issues.
So I would encourage people who still live in San Francisco to get involved in
local politics/charity.

(I say this as a former San Franciscan, 1st-12th grade + two startups).

~~~
hisnameisjimmy
I empathize with where you're coming from, but I honestly think this line of
thinking has led us to where we are now.

The city is legitimately scary for many (maybe most) of its inhabitants,
especially after sunset. I know plenty of women who absolutely will not walk
nearly any distance alone at night. On the Muni the other day, I saw a man
outside get stalked by a homeless guy who was physically threatening him. You
regularly see people who you realize you need to watch out for. It starts to
become a nervous tick.

We need to deal with this in a real way that is not just empathizing with
their situation. We can't just say "Well, they're ill, so we have to let them
be horrible and scare 99% of the population". That is essentially letting the
inmates run the asylum.

I know that full, actual treatment is complex. A lot of them honestly don't
want what's available to them and I don't blame them. But in the meantime, we
have to do something to enforce the law.

It's so, so deeply crazy right now.

~~~
tonystubblebine
A few years ago I learned an interesting bit of my own family history, which
is that my grandfather was the head of mental health in California when Reagan
was governor. And so it's his signature that was on the decision to dismantle
state mental health hospitals. The hospitals were awful in their own way and
there was a loose theory that the counties could step in with a replacement
(which never happened). But it's basically that decision that put a lot of
mentally ill people on the street.

When I was a kid in San Francisco in the 80s and 90s, it was pretty much
accepted wisdom that all homeless were mentally ill and were choosing to live
on the streets. I don't think that's true anymore, although I don't have
statistics. My experience though was that living there as an adult in
2010-2016, I saw a lot more families, a mom in the Powell Street station
begging while helping her daughter with homework, or two moms digging through
my trash on Precita Ave with their kids in tow. That sort of stuff.

I'm not saying at all that homeless should be allowed to terrorize the city.
But I do think empathy is one of the steps (and maybe the only step that
readers here are in complete control of executing themselves). Are you ready
to pay to provide shelter and services for each of these homeless people? Are
you ready to have a shelter in your own neighborhood? Does your local
supervisor know that? I doubt I'm alone in that my own feelings of generosity
are improved when know and care about someone.

Although, more in line with what you are saying about SF being deeply crazy, I
agree and I moved away and I can't imagine moving back. But wherever you live,
I'm encouraging people to do more to make that place as great as it can be. I
live in NYC now, but basically follow the above advice, only more focused on
over incarceration.

~~~
masonic

      it's basically that decision that put a lot of mentally ill people on the street.
    

It was _case law_ , not Reagan, that made involuntary incarceration for the
mentally ill illegal.

In fact, California public mental health funding per capita was _higher_ in
Reagan's last budget than the year before he took office.

------
grandmczeb
A relevant statistic I found interesting: SF had 10x the number of feces
complaints as the entirety of NYC in 2017[1]. Having lived in both places,
that’s a larger difference than I would have expected, although I do encounter
it far more often in SF than I ever did in NYC.

[https://www.realtyhop.com/blog/doo-doo-the-new-urban-
crisis/...](https://www.realtyhop.com/blog/doo-doo-the-new-urban-
crisis/#figure1)

~~~
tenaciousDaniel
Can confirm. I lived in NYC for 4 years, only saw poop like once or twice.
Visited SF for one week, saw poop about 5 times.

------
negativez
I know this is about SF but Seattle seems to have essentially the same issues
with their liberal response to homelessness. This local news piece was both
heartbreaking and infuriating to watch. The interview with an proud,
unrepentant criminal-who-is-homeless at 17:31 is something I won't ever
forget.

"Seattle Is Dying" (KOMO 4 News)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw)

------
actualanswer
Shameless plug - I did a photo series on this feeling when I moved to San
Francisco. You see, you feel, you ignore. [https://medium.com/@saimaddali/you-
see-you-feel-you-ignore-m...](https://medium.com/@saimaddali/you-see-you-feel-
you-ignore-market-street-san-francisco-66d1d515a27d)

~~~
readhn
great photos! thanks for sharing.

------
BrandoElFollito
I visited SF this spring, after 20 years (that was also the first trip to the
US for my children).

I could not recognize the city. We used to walk by night and the city left
great memories.

Now I had to almost run from the pier to my hotel nearby. We went to a fast
food in the night and it was the worst place I have been in.

At the same time, the guide of the tour we took mentioned rent prices so high
that I thought I misunderstood what she was saying.

------
HenryKissinger
Rates of homelessness by state:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/727847/homelessness-
rate...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/727847/homelessness-rate-in-the-
us-by-state/)

CA is #5. Not something to be proud of, but it could be worse.

~~~
dannykwells
Homelessness is a product of being urban. So this statistic needs to control
for percent urban to be meaningful.

Case in point : Mississippi has the lowest homelessness in the US.

~~~
d-sc
Idk, I think the statistic is probably a bit misleading. But the case it point
is a bit off as well. Alaska is top ten homelessness and very rural.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territori...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population_density)

------
keanzu
Paywall. Facebook redirect allows you to read the article.

[http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/the...](http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-
streets-of-san-francisco-11570143083)

~~~
HenryKissinger
If you use Firefox, I would recommend installing this add-on:
[https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-
firefox](https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox)

------
nickthemagicman
I found it to be pretty bad when I was there.

Not as bad as the conservative media makes it out to seem but still bad.

Had my drink knocked out of my hand by a couple of guys,had to buy boots
because of the human feces, saw smashed in car windows daily.

Im super tolerant but that felt like alot.

~~~
52-6F-62
I visited about a year ago now and I didn’t have that experience at all.

Stopped in at City Lights, bought a couple books, went for lunch, and walked
through North Beach to the pier. Walked along Embarcadero to the BART station
there and had a great (albeit short) layover there. I saw a few people who
appeared to be homeless. No more than I see in Toronto or Hamilton—but I can’t
speak to what kind of measure that is anymore.

~~~
paul7986
Take a walk down market street.. by city hall. Disgusting and yet why is it so
bad and in your face and not like that in say new york city? Doesn't NYC put
the homeless up in hotels.. have a voucher program or something?

San Fran doesn't care how terrible their city looks to tourists nor care for
its people like NYC does? I don't get it ... uber super tech rich living in
the most expensive houses in the US with human feces outside on their
pavements or around the corner.

Whatever San Fran is doing and methodology it's following it doesnt seem to be
working out for itself!

~~~
thrower123
It's interesting watching movies from the 70s and 80s depicting New York. It
looks like present day San Francisco or Baltimore, and not at all like modern
New York.

~~~
ummonk
Yup, gives me hope that one day SF can improve.

------
hellllllllooo
[https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trumps-war-on-the-
home...](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trumps-war-on-the-
homeless/id1042433083?i=1000451959424)

This podcast has a pretty good discussion and explaination on the different
causes of homelessness. The distinction between "working homeless" in cities
where housing costs are skyrocketing and people with medical issues or
addiction was interesting to hear talked through with nuance.

------
allworknoplay
This opinion piece provides no context to bits like "The “unsheltered” count
continues to rise—up 17%, to 8,011, in 2019 from 2017—and San Francisco
continues to wonder why." Or the 17 needle deposits that apparently teach all
the children of a 900K-person city that drug use is the norm.

In fact, San Francisco has grown by 100K people in the last 10 years, and
construction hasn't kept up. Costs have risen incredibly, while incomes of
longstanding citizens in many cases have not.

This is simply a right-wing hit piece on the leftist movements against the war
on drugs, gentrification, housing cost inflation, and mass incarceration.

You can't claim the city is wrong about lack of public spending unless you
discuss the spending, and the challenges, realistically and with context.

~~~
paul7986
Ummm but isn't San Fran the most extreme left-ist city in the country? Why is
this not happening on the same scale as say in Nashville?

~~~
dmitrygr
Nashville gets a lot colder in the winter, which, over a few cold winters,
solves this problem. Also, using drugs by daylight Or breaking into a car
right under a running security camera in Nashville will get you arrested. In
San Francisco, nothing will happen to you

~~~
paul7986
Boggles the mind they dont care about rule of law. Socialism and
lawlessness... sounds like Venezulea...we all see how that's unfolded.

~~~
dagw
There is no possible reasonable definition of socialism where San Francisco
could possibly qualify.

~~~
paul7986
no ... not even in terms of all the money they spend on social programs that
further attracts that element vs. focusing their efforts on enforcing
law/cleaning up the city. Also and way more importantly making sure every
adult man and woman has a job that sustains them and allows them to contribute
to society.

------
SomeOldThrow
We all know the cause of homelessness and it ain’t an excess of tolerance,
that’s for damn sure.

~~~
reaperducer
_We all know the cause of homelessness_

If you managed to identify the _single_ cause of homelessness, you should be
nominated for a Nobel Prize.

~~~
baroffoos
The problem is Americas version of left is "I will do nothing to help you but
I won't intervene if you do drugs on the street" and their version of the
right is "I will do nothing at all to help you but you will be punished for
any rule breaking"

~~~
dragonwriter
> The problem is Americas version of left is "I will do nothing to help you
> but I won't intervene if you do drugs on the street"

That's because the dominant faction of America’s “left”-er party is neoliberal
centrist. The actual left would do more, but even in cities with a leftier
reputation doesn't tend to have the power to.

~~~
tyri_kai_psomi
I hear this a lot, and while it may be true for the core platform, the
American left have some of the most extreme progressive views in the world,
for example, on abortion.

~~~
SomeOldThrow
While that is true, nobody fits neatly into a right/left spectrum.

