
This is engineering: Army Jeep torn apart and reassembled in 4 minutes - g0atbutt
http://codesketch.com/2010/09/this-is-engineering-army-jeep-torn-apart-and-reassembled-in-4-minutes/
======
Qz
What I find most interesting is the use of spatial organization when taking
the Jeep apart. You could probably walk those guys out half way through, bring
in a different set of guys, and they could put it back together by just
looking at where the pieces are on the ground.

~~~
electromagnetic
This is generally taught by good mechanics. I know my father, who owned a
mechanics garage when he was younger, did this whenever he disassembled
anything. I once saw him dismantle a motorbike clutch and reassemble it
without looking at where he placed a thing, and this was over several days as
he had to get replacement parts in the intervening time.

Now I ask, how much would these guys make if they could do things with that
speed in a real mechanics shop where fully disassembling a vehicle likely has
20+ hours of labor tied to it.

~~~
jacquesm
It would not be possible in a 'shop' situation.

For one, everything would be bolted down with the bolts torqued to spec,
instead of just strong enough to hold things together for a demonstration run.

Also things tend to rust and taking oxidized stuff apart without breaking it
takes quite a bit of time and preparation, sometimes multiple days (if the
part is precious enough, for instance on classics it can definitely be worth
the extra effort).

Then there's the accessibility of parts, this is a ladder chassis car, which
means that the chassis and the body are two separate parts. That makes for a
vehicle that is very easy to disassemble at the expense of a higher weight
(and so reduced fuel economy) higher manufacturing expense and less safety in
the case of an accident.

So you'd never ever get this kind of performance in real life situations.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
That's what I was thinking too.

When I saw this, I imagined doing the same thing (alone) with my old 1987
Toyota pickup. It is difficult for one person to completely remove the body
(I've had to raise it by myself to install body spacers) from the frame, but
once the body is off, the rest of the truck would disassemble easily. Most of
the effort is dealing with rusted/frozen fasteners. The rest of the vehicle
comes apart fairly easily. Working on these older, simpler vehicles is pretty
straightforward.

Contrast with my 350Z: it would take days to accomplish the same thing. Much
more integrated system and access is more difficult.

~~~
rikthevik
I just had a flashback to a number of seized and broken rusty bolts. The
horror.

~~~
X-Istence
Heat. Heat the sucker up, and it comes out easy.

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tfh
_Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but
rather when there is nothing more to take away._

    
    
      -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

~~~
jacobolus
I really recommend the whole chapter this quotation comes from, and for that
matter the whole book ( _Wind, Sand, and Stars_ , or in the original French,
_Terre des hommes_ ). It’s a fantastically optimistic take on the relation of
humans to technology (the specific example is airplanes, but the argument is
quite general).

[Here’s the immediate context in French:
<http://wikilivres.info/wiki/Terre_des_hommes/III> and in English:
[http://books.google.com/books?id=Ep-h7MuxLiIC&lpg=PP1...](http://books.google.com/books?id=Ep-h7MuxLiIC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q&f=false)]

~~~
jacobolus
oh, and just for completeness, the quotation in its original form:

 _« Il semble que la perfection soit atteinte non quand il n’y a plus rien à
ajouter, mais quand il n’y a plus rien à retrancher. Au terme de son
évolution, la machine se dissimule. »_

or in the not-quite-literal translation by Galantière:

 _“In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away,
when a body has been stripped down to its nakedness”_

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sbierwagen
This is neat. Heck of a job. I probably couldn't do it anywhere near that
fast.

 _But..._

When I watched the video I got a sinking feeling regarding the comment thread
on HN. Sure enough, I come back here, and see people praising the simplicity
of the design.

Ha ha. Surely you jest.

This is engineering compromise, but heavy on the compromise. The Jeep they
used for this video didn't have a radiator, only used two lug nuts per wheel,
and _didn't have any brakes._ (Note how it coasted to a stop.) A Jeep in
actual, drivable condition would take a least an hour to field strip to the
same degree, and one that had any significant mileage would take even longer
still, what with rusty bolts and seized connectors.

And even a Jeep in running condition compromised a lot to reduce the number of
parts. You can have a car that's as simple as a Jeep if you're willing to give
up:

    
    
      Air conditioning.
      Airbags.
      Any kind of modern emissions controls.
      Modern engine diagnostics.
      Electronic stability control and ABS brakes.
      Cheap maintenance.
      Decent fuel efficiency. (Jeeps are pretty heavy, thanks 
      to the simple design, have lousy aerodynamics, and an 
      carburetor-fueled engine that isn't afraid to waste gas)
      A roof.
      Any kind of sound insulation.
      Doors.
    

Jack Barath wrote a column[1] on the death of the basic car, and it boiled
down to "people won't buy a car without these features"; along with some bonus
wibbling about government regulations (see "emissions controls" in that list
above) that would make such a car illegal to sell.

I thought his column sucked[2], but the point is that a basic car is not
_impossible_ , or a relic of ancient technology that is now lost to us, but
because outside of a few specialized applications, such as military vehicles,
"basic car" is actually a codeword for "a car that sucks", and I would
confidently lay money that the dozens of people expressing admiration for the
Jeep's elegant design would hate to be forced to drive one.

1: [http://www.speedsportlife.com/2009/01/21/avoidable-
contact-2...](http://www.speedsportlife.com/2009/01/21/avoidable-
contact-22-airbags-killed-the-am-radio-star/)

2:
[http://bbot.org/blog/archives/2009/02/27/blind_nostalgia_and...](http://bbot.org/blog/archives/2009/02/27/blind_nostalgia_and_cars/)

~~~
KaeseEs
It did have a radiator, you can see it getting put back in at about 3:18

~~~
sbierwagen
Whoops, you're right.

However, that radiator didn't appear to have any _coolant_ in it.

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erikstarck
Very cool, but the most complex part, the engine, is still left as one piece.

This is like saying "oh, look I've split my program in to many source code
files to make it less complex" and yet one of the files is 20KLOC.

~~~
woodall
I think of the motor as more of the Operating system and everything is build
around it.

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g0atbutt
_J_ ust _E_ nough _E_ ssential _P_ arts = JEEP

I would love to know more about their design mantra.

~~~
ramy_d
totally. we need this kind of design back.

~~~
mhd
I think even if people were willing to let go of some features that require
additional parts, just getting a car made that would conform to modern
security and environmental regulations would probably be an impossible task.
It's not like we forgot how to build like that or that car companies want to
waste money with superfluous parts.

~~~
electromagnetic
Why? Crumple zones are simply part of the vehicles material designs and
require no additional parts. A piece of sheet metal with engineered weak
points takes as many parts in a vehicle as piece of sheet metal. Both form the
hood of the car just fine.

> It's not like ... car companies want to waste money with superfluous parts.

Built in pre-market Satellite Radio isn't a superfluous part, especially when
you can't opt out of it. The 'man-step' from Ford isn't superfluous? It's the
most redundant feature in any work vehicle as it's less 4" lower than the top
of the wheel and is placed where a toolbox is, making it impossible to use in
the vast majority of vehicles it is placed. Whilst using the wheel (the method
used probably since shortly after Ford released the first truck) allows you to
grip the side, and gives you enough height to lean over and fully reach into
the bed.

Companies place superfluous parts into their vehicles all the time. DVD
players and LCD screens help with environmental regulations and vehicular
safety? Really?

~~~
jerf
Are you a programmer?

If so, don't you hate it when people come up to you and suggest that
programming Facebook is no big deal and maybe you should help them with that
next weekend?

You just did that.

I am not an automotive engineer, but large swathes of my family are and I have
had many discussions about their work from an engineering point of view. You
would not believe what goes into just that crumple zone stuff, nothing the
word "simply" applies to. Did you know there are entire engineers dedicated to
making sure the cars pass rather stringent noise emission requirements from
the _body_ (that is, not the engine)? It's hard enough to get cars to pass
specifications _without_ adding in yet more restrictions about the nature of
the cars. (Or adding $20,000 to the price.)

~~~
Retric
A lot of automotive complexity comes from the evolutionary nature of their
designs. If you built a gas turbine electric car you could have far fewer
moving parts. But you would add a new set of basic downsides that you would
need to tweak. By the time you had something with reasonable tolerances,
materials, pollution, noise, and vibration levels you would probably have
built something almost a complex as a modern engine.

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pascalchristian
The guys at autoblog are discussing this vid. It seems that it has been
prepared, there's no liquid coolant nor any fluid containers that can be seen.

Edit: here's the link [http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/10/video-team-tears-
down-the...](http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/10/video-team-tears-down-then-
rebuilds-a-jeep-in-under-four-minute/)

~~~
kls
Some military jeeps had air cooled engines so that the cooling could not be
damaged by an impact of munitioned. Shooting out the radiator was a common
tactic for disabling a vehicle.

~~~
jleader
I'm pretty sure I saw a guy lift out a large vertical rectangular object from
in front of the engine, fairly early in the video. When it was put back in, he
reached way down in between it and the engine, like maybe he was re-attaching
the bottom hose (presumably without a hose clamp, or any fluids). But I could
be wrong, I only watched that part twice, and I wasn't concentrating on the
radiator.

~~~
byw
I went back to see it, and indeed it's there at around 0:32. It's right behind
the grille, so it's probably a radiator or at least a fan.

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cschep
Does anyone know if this is an older model that has since been over
complicated? Or if this sort of vehicle is available for civilians? What a
cool toy, and seemingly a cool way to learn more about vehicles/engines. Kept
simple enough, seems like it could even be affordable..

~~~
garyrichardson
That's a vintage military jeep. These are available to civilians, if you can
hunt one down. Based on the tires and the model, I suspect it's WWII era. Even
modern humvee's are way more complex. I doubt you'd want one as a daily driver
though.

If you get a jeep made since 1995, it's definitely way more complex. The jeep
in the video doesn't have the same emission controls and safety requirements
of a modern vehicle.

Modern jeeps still shars some of the same design principles. For instance, tub
on frame -- they lift the tub off of the frame. The cabin of a jeep is like a
bathtub on a wagon.

The suspension in modern jeeps is far more complex in order to give a smoother
ride -- the jeep in the video has leaf springs on front and back. Modern jeeps
typically don't have leafs in the front.

Jeep CJ's were the first consumer models available. Some of the older ones may
be close to that simple.

I drive a jeep. I think it's awesome. For the same reasons I like it, most of
my passengers hate it:

\- it's loud (soft top or top down you basically have to yell to hear each
other, forget listening to the stereo on road trips) \- it rides rough -- you
get thrown around \- it has almost no features. I have a heater, headlights,
three speed wipers (off, too slow and too fast), manual windows/mirrors and a
button to reset the trip counter

Also, it's a bit of a money pit. It's super rugged, but when you take it into
the bush, you push the machine to its limits. I'm not really an expert in
vehicle repairs (spent my teen years on computers instead of with my dad in
the garage), but I'm definitely getting more into it as a way to save money.

I get about 15 L/100KM (~15mpg). It's as aerodynamic as a brick flying
sideways, so you can't really do anything to improve gas mileage.

That all being said, I love my jeep. I can't see myself not owning a jeep in
the future.

~~~
jacquesm
If you're interested, I still have J10 stepside (very rare, 1100 made) in a
barn in Ontario, you can have it if you want, for free.

I'd rather see it with someone that might breathe some life back into it, I'm
Europe these days so I most likely won't be seeing it again. And with the
price of petrol here what it is I can't see it moved here either.

~~~
garyrichardson
Heh, Vancouver is a long way from Ontario. Otherwise that's a sweet offer :)

~~~
jacquesm
Ok, thanks for getting back on that one, I have enough offers by now that I
think that the Jeep will go to a good home.

Say hi to the steamclock from me :)

j

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garyrichardson
I saw this video on a 4x4ing forum this morning. My 99 TJ is no where near
this simple. I wish it was though. Jeeps are money pits and it would be
awesome if I could do repairs with a handful of tools.

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ganley
I've long wanted someone to build and sell a dead-simple car like this today.
With modern emissions and safety standards, it might well not be possible.

~~~
elblanco
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano>

~~~
ganley
Yeah, I'm familiar with that, and it's very much in the spirit of what I had
in mind (though not as much so as the Willys). But note that they lost much of
that simplicity in the Europa - the version that meets EU safety and emissions
requirements - which ballooned the price from US$2,000 to US$6,000.

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sown
There's no way that drive-train could be attached that loosely and have it go
over so much as a pothole.

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oasisbob
I've always been impressed by how easily a VW Beetle's engine can be removed.
People have similar contests to see how quickly the engine can be swapped:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Du5atasfQ>

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hebejebelus
Reminds me of the ifixit team on Apple product release day.

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vishaldpatel
Heh.. first thought was this: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDvqPOn6g4>
(Lord of War - plane salvage scene)

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jonah
Reminds me of the teamwork and efficiency of formula 1 pit crews and the
modular design of the cars.

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rue
…Of course a modern vehicle will probably stand up to an attack a bit better.
Compromises.

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deyan
A better title might be "This is reverse engineering" :) Ah good old times..

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stretchwithme
Its easy when you don't pull the engine apart first. :-)

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chuhnk
That is absolutely exceptional work.

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tlrobinson
Now try that on a sportscar...

~~~
jonah
Yep. Watch a Formula 1 team replace major components after a crash.

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mkramlich
I've heard it said that you can't fully understand how a thing works until you
are capable of completely taking it apart and then reassembling it back
together again in it's original working condition.

~~~
vaksel
bonus points when you have parts left over...means you improved the design.

~~~
1amzave
The Law of Inanimate Reproduction: if you do this enough times, you'll
eventually have enough parts left over to build an entirely new one.

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da5e
This is great! If only psychiatrists could be so efficient.

This is a excellent example of teamwork too.

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d_c
Completely pointless drill.

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sandeepshetty
This is a great example of teamwork and practice, but, I don't get it. Why is
this engineering? Why is the ability to take a Jeep apart and reassemble it in
4 minutes "simply great design"? Is that what Jeeps are for?

~~~
gaius
The "engineering" here is not what the guys in the video did, but what the
guys back in WW2 did to design a vehicle that could be stripped and
reassembled in the field.

By saying "that's what Jeeps are for" you are just taking it for granted...
Vehicles don't grow on trees.

~~~
sandeepshetty
Looks like I failed miserably at asking this earlier, but I'm just looking for
a reference to the stated design goals. If it is the reason you state, I'm
just looking for a reference to it.

Asking "what Jeeps are for" was meant to get at the design goals and I did not
mean to dis what is otherwise a very fascinating design choice.

