

Keys: Musical Keyboard with Gesture Controls, Modularity, and LEDs - naveenspark
http://www.playkeys.io

======
leejoramo
Interesting product with an amazing low price point. Being small and
inexpensive, I am interesting in seeing how this can moving into educational
settings. I loved the part of the video show a toddler learning to play. I
will be interested in what the response from musicians will be to using this
for performance and as a midi input device for working with audio software.

If you are looking for a traditional keyboard check out the McCarthy
Illuminating Piano.

[http://mccarthypiano.com/hardware.aspx](http://mccarthypiano.com/hardware.aspx)

------
dmicah
The proximity sensor seems very similar to the Roland "D-Beam" infrared light
sensor
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Beam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Beam),
which is itself a bit of a gimmick. The design itself seems inspired by the
KMI QuNexus
[http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/qunexus/](http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/qunexus/)
.

~~~
idanb
Also - sorry for the double comment. The design was definitely influenced by
similar form factor keyboards like the Op-1 and QuNexus although the latter
does not use actual keys but is an MPC like pressure sensitive pad rather than
a push/levered/actuated key. Also, in general, the design was influenced by
the status quo of how producers / musicians approach such MIDI instruments and
why/how they're used.

The biggest difference in our design is the exclusion of all controls, buttons
knobs and so on which means that even though the Keys device is about the same
size as some of these other portable devices, the keys themselves are nearly
the same size and layout ratios as traditional. In other words, full size keys
not mini size which is hard to tell in the pictures. This feature, of both our
personal opinions and the feedback of professionals we gave Keys to, is
significantly more important than any other in a truly useful as well as
portable keyboard.

The fact that all controls are removed and the design is purely keys also
allows for the modular nature, and the ability to connect Keys together in
various ways as well as other modules.

------
Htsthbjig
Another interesting instrument:

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/artiphon/introducing-
th...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/artiphon/introducing-the-artiphon-
instrument-1)

------
ChuckMcM
Love the creativity. I have observed though that "musical" people can play
anything, and non-musical people cannot. It has always been a curious thing
which I first noticed in music classes at USC.

~~~
jtheory
This is one of those learned things that becomes _inborn_ , I think.

I have a few things I'm pretty good at, and I'll pick up & try anything,
because it's fun. Most of the music I make is improvised. And I've been
picking up & trying any instrument I run across for decades now, so I have
snippets of experience in lots of things now.

My wife studied classical piano from an early age, and can sit down and
_sight-read_ stuff I haven't got a chance at playing on any instrument. But
she never improvises, never tries out other instruments, and thus can't really
do the same thing (pick up anything and make music on it).

We both have a (possibly-inborn) talent for music, but we've taken quite
different paths, and those years spent quite differently really show, now.

~~~
ChuckMcM
That is an interesting contrast, and similar to ones I've seen. People who
have trained on an instrument such as a piano (or violin in one case) from a
young age, who are technically proficient but never stray off the music page.
And people who like to play around with the notes and try different things, on
anything, even non-instruments like soup cans at one campout I was on.

~~~
jtheory
Almost anything can be used as an instrument; some easier than others (blowing
over the top of a bottle), but just about everything makes noises that can
then be organized, modified, etc. :)

You can make surprisingly complicated music just clapping.

I think the crucial difference is just in how we grew up thinking about music.

My wife grew up in a culture where everything was publicly judged, students
and performers were rated & ranked, etc.. If you did something and you didn't
do it _well_ , you'd better do it in secret.

I wasn't _free_ from those feelings, but it wasn't as emphasized; and as I
grew up, I eventually had a good base of things I was known to be good at...
which in a way freed me to do other things badly.

And the funny thing about trying lots of new things (and doing them badly) is
that practice makes you _better_ rapid competence in new things -- this works
in music, but also in anything else in life.

This is what I most want to emphasize whenever anyone talks about people with
natural talent for music, for example (which can seem particularly magic to
people with little experience of their own).

There are probably some inborn elements involved -- how well your ears work,
etc. -- but so much really is learned, and once you're hooked, the amount of
"practice" in music and thinking about sound becomes huge.

I'm not a pro performer, and not likely to become one; but it's something I
love, so I probably spent 6+ hours a day doing something with music
interleaved into it. Not sitting down with an instrument, most of the time,
but washing the dishes. Driving the car. Playing with my kids. Walking the
dog.

So I can imagine how pervasive it could be for someone really focusing their
life on music.

Natural talent, sure; but don't forget the _hundreds of thousands_ of hours
some people spend training their minds to the patterns of music.

------
21echoes
why did they give it a non-standard keyboard layout? having the black keys be
higher up & "overlap" front-to-back with the white keys is pretty crucial for
playing with any sort of speed. also wary of the button-like keys vs
traditional lever-like keys on real pianos.

other than that, the proximity sensor looks awesome, and the price point is
pretty incredible! not to mention the light-up stuff for people learning.

~~~
idanb
I was worried about that too when we first started to give it to musicians. We
had to test this design out first, before we launched it. I'm not a piano
player, but I would produce music on flights to China and back a lot when we
were doing manufacturing for the gTar and I would get these midi controllers
and they would all break going in and out of my backpack.

That's where the design initially came from, but I knew one of the most
important things is that the keys had to be full size. Mini key designs always
left something to be desired, and I would just use my laptop keyboard instead
- which seemed to be more effective and in the long run more convenient too -
since these controllers were really cumbersome.

So when I first gave the design to musicians I was scared that they would
immediately reject it. The Keys were full size, but the interface was
different than what they were used to. But they made zero mention of it, and
you can see in later half the video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guKRk3WPc40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guKRk3WPc40)

I know no feedback sounds like bad feedback, but in this case it was really
positive. These guys would immediately start wailing on keys like it was
natural. These are guys that do this for a living, and I didn't hear one
comment about the difference in the keys from a traditional piano.

So take it for what it is - We weren't ignorant of the fact that Keys isn't a
traditional design, but all the same - this approach also makes it
significantly more portable - and the great thing about AMON (the networking
stuff) is we could always make a traditional version and it would still work
and link with the non-traditional layout.

~~~
jtheory
Interesting -- I'd be curious to see what actual musicians would say. It
really depends on the type of music you're building with it, I'd say.

I'm not primarily a keyboardist, but I use them; in this case it would surely
be tricky to play anything that uses the black keys much; your hands have
patterns memorized that (I'd imagine) would be tough to adapt to having the
black keys on a separate row.

But because it's MIDI, it really does depend on what you're building, and it
might not matter. Recording simple snatches of melody would be fine if you
keep away from chromatic lines -- e.g., if you want to add a line that's in C
minor, just record it in A minor (all white keys except maybe the G#), then
transpose it in a few seconds.

You wouldn't play the Flight of the Bumblebee on it, though.

~~~
idanb
I can't disagree with you, these haven't gone out into the wild yet - but I
will say I've seen some truly gifted piano players / keyboardists take to this
without any mention of strange finger/hand issues with the layout.

I'll be honest, I'm not a keyboard player. I designed this to be truly mobile
and portable without making compromises on the key size, which my theory is
that having a full scale keyboard is more important than the traditional
design of the keys. The former makes the device useful, and the later makes it
familiar but also prevents it from being very portable without shrinking the
keys or otherwise compromising on other dimensions.

I've seen people shred on Keys, it's pretty awesome to see, since I can barely
play Yankee Doodle - but I'm getting a lot better!

------
smilekzs
I might have missed something, but have they left out touch sensitivity (i.e.
velocity)? That's a major deal-breaker!

~~~
TylerE
Ideally the dream keyboard would have BOTH.

For playing piano, and other player-volume controlled instruments, you want
velocity sensitivity.

For organ, or maybe early electric "pianos" you don't...you want an
expression/volume pedal. This is one reason a virtuoso organ player can do
things a piano player couldn't - they can use all kinds of "wrong" reachs and
finger movements that enable them to play things that they couldn't otherwise.

------
zserge
Are these full-size keys?

~~~
idanb
Keys has very close to full ratio keys to a standard piano. If you take it and
put it up against a normal piano you'll see the keys span about the same
length as two octaves, maybe by a difference of 2-3 mm.

This was a very critical aspect of the design and actually led to the
implementation of the proximity sensors. We had to remove all controls to get
this size but still be about the width of a 13" laptop - and the need for
certain controls like octave transposition was the impetus for looking into
other control methodologies like proximity based gestures.

