
Microsoft will require suppliers to offer paid parental leave - aaronbrethorst
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/microsoft-to-business-partners-if-you-want-to-work-with-us-offer-paid-family-leave/2018/08/29/979ffcca-abc0-11e8-8a0c-70b618c98d3c_story.html
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imgabe
One thing I didn't know that I learned recently - in countries where paid
parental leave is mandated by law, the government reimburses companies for
most of the cost of the employee's salary while they're on leave. At least,
this is what I was told about the UK (I think it was like 90% of the cost that
the gov't reimbursed).

That makes a huge difference. _Of course_ every company would be offering it
if the cost to them were minimal. If we want to this to happen in the US, it
needs to happen at the voting booth to approve a program like that.
Unfortunately it would most likely have to go on a state-by-state level.

But, I think this should be brought up every time someone complains about how
US companies are so barbaric that they don't offer this paid leave. Well, duh,
of course they don't because it would be an enormous cost to them that it's
not elsewhere in the world.

~~~
dustinmoris
Lol, 90% reimbursed by the government? No it's definitely not in the UK, not
in Austria, not in Germany and any other European country I know. It's quite
simple, the government introduces a law of minimum leave and all companies in
the country either oblidge or have to leave. Not being able to serve a rich
market like Europe is not an option, so that's really incentive enough for
them to follow the rules.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
It's 90% for _the first six weeks_ and is taxable, for maternity leave only,
then some low amount of a few hundred a month for the rest. There's a separate
entitlement for unpaid parental leave. Many employers pay higher and for
longer than statutory amounts.

~~~
pm215
The figure you have in mind there is the percentage of the employee's salary
that they are legally guaranteed as maternity pay. The percentage the
grandparent/parent comment is talking about is the percentage of the
employer's total outlay on maternity pay that they can then claim back from
the government (which turns out to be either 92% or 103% of the statutory
minimum payment).

------
duxup
I wish this was more common.

I worked for a company based out of the valley. One year they announced their
awesome new paid parental leave policy. My wife and I were expecting and I was
excited.

I submitted for paid parental leave..... denied, unpaid leave only.

The paid parental leave was only available to employees in California...
because that is the only place they were required to do so.

The lesson was that many companies will only do it if they are forced.

~~~
thenewwazoo
I think your company may have been advertising a "benefit" in a disingenuous
manner. In CA we pay into a state disability fund (SDI), from which you can
draw for maternity/paternity leave, sort of like unemployment insurance. You
can only draw on the SDI if you pay into it, and it's unavailable to you if
your employer pays some maximum portion of your salary (for example, I was
ineligible because I was paid during my leave). It sounds like they were
trying to pull a fast one on CA residents and hoping nobody was paying
attention.

~~~
duxup
Exactly they absolutely were advertising it in a semi truthful way. It was
totally announced as a company wide policy.....but like a lot of things they
really were only talking about the valley.

When a layoff happened years later I got less because "that only applies to CA
employees" despite repeated announcements with no qualifications.

------
cprayingmantis
I find it incredibly interesting that a company can make these sort of demands
for a change that the determine is better for society. Wonder if people will
consider this a grass roots change for worker good or the unwanted imposing
requirement of a a mega-corporation.

~~~
wincy
Well right now my wife (who is a stay at home mom) is seven months pregnant
and I’m looking for a job. If this was mandated at any of the companies I was
applying to I’d be guaranteed to not get hired. I don’t want 12 weeks, and
it’s not like this baby is a surprise.

~~~
moorhosj
==I’d be guaranteed to not get hired.==

Flat out false. My wife got a new job while 7 months pregnant. When she had
the baby, she took 8 weeks off, I start my 4 week paternity leave soon and
everyone is happy.

~~~
pnutjam
I had a coworker do that and it worked out great. I always avoid talking about
my kid other then to acknowledge I have kids.

~~~
moorhosj
It is really a stratified world in that regard and I am lucky. My employer
(large, non-US based tech company) not only offers paternity leave, but
actively encourages it's use.

Sadly, even a lot of workplaces that "offer" this type of benefit have a
culture where it hurts your career to use it. Meanwhile, the rest of the
developed world gets along just fine with universal leave.

------
MR4D
This sounds great until it comes time to set up a new supplier contract and
they go to India.

When they outsource something to India because labor in the US is "too
expensive", I'm going to give them hell for it.

For what it's worth, I'm not against the policy, but the second-order effects
are going to suck for some.

~~~
cududa
This is wrong minded. Microsoft is requiring this of the companies that offer
their janitorial services, cooking, etc - which is HUGE

~~~
jbob2000
Janitorial company keeps 20% of staff full time with parental leave benefits,
80% are temporary contractors that don't qualify for parental leave.

At least that's how companies in Canada get around the requirement.

~~~
baq
Still better for the 20%, right? It would be 100% temp workers otherwise.

------
geodel
Indian government passed a new law which provision for 6 month paid maternity
leave. Sounds very progressive. But 2 things: 90% of women work in unorganized
sector so no effect on them. Employers have started showing reluctance in
hiring them and about 12 million women could lose jobs due to this new law.

~~~
Someone1234
That's why parental leave should apply to both parents/all genders. I believe
one of the Nordic countries has a law on the books that gives a fixed period
of time per child and parents can split it between parents as they wish.

~~~
alkonaut
Sweden has 480 days to share (part of that is with lower pay), but 90 days for
each parent cannot be transferred so the minimum for dads is effectively 3
months per child. This has had great effect. If you are going to leave work
for 3 months you can just as well do 6 or 12 with little difference to the
employer.

------
linuxftw
Nice sentiment, but that will invite behavior to cut costs. If this doesn't
apply to part time workers, some suppliers are likely to cut full time
positions into part time positions.

This could also cost an employer (either real or perceived) productivity, and
result in wage stagnation or lack of hiring new full time employees.

Additionally, and most importantly, full time employees will be fired and
converted to 'contractors,' they'll fill their previous role for less money
and benefits and not technically be 'employees.'

~~~
Arubis
Conversely, this is an invitation to renegotiate prices. If a client is going
to require you to do something expensive, you calculate how much that's going
to cost you, and pass that cost along to your customer. You can even tell them
that's exactly what you're doing and what the numbers look like, and if your
customer isn't terrible they'll appreciate the transparency.

Frankly, that's a potential PR win for MSFT, as well: "we're requiring our
suppliers to do this, and it's increasing our costs by $X; we're putting our
money where our mouth is & invite you to do the same".

~~~
pkaye
How do renegotiate prices when Microsoft is not your only customer? Just
increase the prices on Microsoft or on all your customers to pay for these
benefits?

~~~
yardie
I have a friend who provides private security. Gov't and a few progressive
clients have benefits and wage guarantees. He spins off a LLC to handle those
contractual benefits. It's a bit of a headache for paperwork but stupider to
leave the money on the table.

------
BrandonMarc
Next on Hacker News: Microsoft suppliers now hiring more contractors and less
full-time staff.

~~~
trumped
Why do you expect them to do the wrong thing?

~~~
BrandonMarc
> _Why do you expect them to do [this]?_

Economics

\---

No less "wrong" than Nike moving its shoe factories out of the USA and into
China, Vietnam, or anywhere else that doesn't have OSHA, EPA, minimum wage,
labor unions, ACA, etc.

\---

I've read on HN about Facebook doing similar things. They brag up and down
about the amazing benefits they give employees, while at the same time moving
headcount to contractors who don't get to eat the free food ... literally.

[edit] found the article:

Facebook's underclass: staffers enjoy perks, contractors barely get by

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350600](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350600)

... heh, one commenter even mentions Eloi and Morlocks.

~~~
trumped
"Capitalism" was the answer that I was expecting

------
dominotw
I am struggled with caring for a parent in the past and its far more
burdensome( mentally and physically) than having a baby( which i also
experienced).

Why can't everyone get equal paid time for 'life events' instead of just for
having a baby.

~~~
linuxftw
Paid time off is merely a component of salary. Some employers might be willing
to pay more $$ for less PTO, others more PTO than $$.

Personally, I'd rather have the extra cash, and take only unpaid leave. I'd
rather have the extra cash and buy my own health insurance.

You are already being paid at your market rate, it's up to you to plan for
these unforeseen life events and save accordingly.

~~~
dominotw
> plan for these unforeseen life events and save accordingly.

why doesn't this apply to parents? Becoming a parent is no more unforeseen
than ageing.

~~~
linuxftw
> why doesn't this apply to parents? Becoming a parent is no more unforeseen
> than ageing.

I don't disagree. All of these 'benefits' are just compensation for labor in
another form. When considering a salary for a position, you have to factor in
all these non-cash benefits for your labor. I would prefer a simpler
transaction: give me a high cash amount for hours actually worked with the
flexibility to take whatever unpaid time I need, within reason.

------
ikeboy
They going to stop producing in China then?

~~~
freeone3000
Why? State Council Decree No. 619 gives 14 weeks of paid parental leave to all
Chinese.

~~~
ikeboy
No, they only give it to women

~~~
Maximus9000
That does seem to be the case. It seems like men get 2 weeks:

[http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2017/04/06/maternity-
leav...](http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2017/04/06/maternity-leave-
allowance-china.html)

------
cosinetau
They already support parental leave by supporting ICE.

------
h4b4n3r0
This needs to be transitive or it won’t work. It’s trivial to set up a front
which complies and subcontract everything to the old (but perhaps renamed)
company that does not.

------
dang
Url changed from [https://www.axios.com/microsoft-require-suppliers-offer-
paid...](https://www.axios.com/microsoft-require-suppliers-offer-paid-
parental-leave-dc573198-123c-4c51-ab78-432863003165.html), which has more
information.

------
s73v3r_
This is great, but it still is incredibly sad that only certain people get
this benefit, instead of it being something given to everyone in the country
like in most of the civilized world.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Progress by any means necessary. It would be absolutely phenomenal if
legislation fixed this for everyone today, but until that time, there are a
lot of people who will benefit from this who otherwise wouldn't.

~~~
s73v3r_
That's what I said?

~~~
toomuchtodo
I think we agreed but that wasn’t what I understood. Apologies!

------
jl2718
Do people not realize that leave benefits decrease wages? Some will abuse
this. Most will not use it at all.

Why does anybody need paid leave? Are we unable to save money for planned
vacations and life events?

~~~
jrfinkel
"Some will abuse this." LOL, yeah I'm gonna deal with 9 months of pregnancy,
and then several months of recovery, and then raise a kid for 18+ years just
so I can get that sweet, sweet leave.

Do people not realize that leave benefits are necessary if you wish to attract
high skill workers?

~~~
jl2718
You ask a yes/no question where both options indicate acceptance of your
premise. Is there a name for this rhetorical device?

The premise, however, is wrong. The best workers in any field are not
employees.

