

Is North Korea using doubles to hide the death of Kim Jong-Il? - rglovejoy
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4692472.ece

======
byrneseyeview
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=285766>

Interestingly enough, the same story was submitted earlier, is now [dead], and
has been replaced by a lookalike.

------
Protophore
Is there any reason why a successor to Kim Jong-Il could not take this place
if he actually did pass away? It's not like the populace of North Korea is
just waiting for him to die so that they can revolt. Or that the communist
party would have to worry about losing power in an election to choose a new
ruler.

The only reason I can see for North Korea to enact such a ruse would be to
maintain the guise of a strong North Korean leader to the rest of the world
while they groom a successor. I can't see many internal reasons why they would
need to act in such a manner.

------
sheriff
would you prefer they use floats?

~~~
hugh
I would have thought that a short would be sufficient.

------
jwilliams
The article doesn't seem to indicate why they'd want to hide the fact?

I'd expect the power vacuum following found be pretty difficult to hide.

More logical explanation would be that he's using his doubles for exactly the
intent he devised - to stand in for him.

~~~
rglovejoy
See the Wikipedia article on Kim Jong-il:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-Il>

Supposedly, schoolchildren there are taught that both Kim Il-sung and Kim
Jong-il are superhuman beings that do not exercise the same bodily functions
that conventional humans do.

Kim Il-sung was already fairly old when he died in 1994, so it was not a
problem for the propagandists to acknowledge his death. Even so, he is still
the president of the country, and is in many ways treated as though he were
still alive.

Kim Jong-il would be either 66 or 67, depending on who you ask. In 2003, he
would have been in his early 60s, so for him to die would be a crushing blow
to the faith in his superpowers, and by extension, to the government.

Having body doubles impersonating a dead leader is certainly a strange
practice, but it is most likely not the strangest thing to happen in North
Korea.

~~~
cturner
It's tempting to flag this - politics not hacking. However, North Korea is
interesting in a special way - because it's so extreme. It's like one of those
exercises where you run some code the way it's not meant to be run with the
idea of "I wonder how far we can push this". Starving people, no foreign
relations, extreme corruption, yet still it chugs along as it has for two
decades. The horror is resiliant.

> Supposedly, schoolchildren there are taught that both > Kim Il-sung and Kim
> Jong-il are superhuman beings that > do not exercise the same bodily
> functions that > conventional humans do.

I think it's a lot more practical than this. North Korea is like one of those
systems where you've deleted all the source code but the process is still
running. So long as you don't stop the process, and can keep the power
running, it just ticks along. Of course, you can't make change beyond that
provisioned for before the problem developed. So.. you just run with it
because you don't have any other options.

The interesting thing is - if it collapses the results could be profound for
all of us. The south feels a strong companionship to the people in the north
even though, for practical purposes they now have very little in common. The
south is prosperous.and educated and liberal. Currently the humanitarian
crisis is hidden behind the parallel, but as soon as the state flounders in
the north then countries around the world (locals like the south, China and
possibly Russia) will feel obliged to help, and the west will probably play a
role too due to their close historical relationship to South Korea.

North Korea is a two-state society - the ruling group, and the rest. The
ruling group will do whatever they can to stay in power. In the west, I
wouldn't believe that a lie like this could be sustained. I've met people from
former eastern-european countries who really do know how to keep a secret, and
to separate their clan lives from their public face. Even if he's still alive
then it's an amazing situation for the resolve he has shown to avoid the
mistake (on a selfish level) of attempting gradual reform in a system that is
beyond it.

------
mhb
Don't know, but if both doubles should turn up alive in the same room and you
need to know which is the real one, step on the cat and see toward which
double she flees. Be sure to check for a cat double though.

------
binarray2000
If this is true, it's a perfect way for the oppressive North Korean government
to stay in power forever while foisting KJI doubles on us every time one of
them dies.

------
steveplace
Copycats.

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106673/>

~~~
rit
Rather, Dave was a bit of a ripoff of "Double Star", for which Heinlein got a
Hugo way back in 1957:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Star>

Pay the Grand Master his proper due!

