
A copy of your property deed costs $3 – this SoCal firm will do it for $89 - ilamont
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-11-12/property-records-deed-letter
======
bxparks
I received about 20 of these scam letters after buying a house. I kept all of
them in a folder for my records. One thing that I noticed is that all these
scam letters included a no-postage-required, Business Reply Mail envelope. I
guess they make so much money off these scams that they can pay the return
postage.

I returned all of these envelopes filled to the max with random pieces of junk
paper. BUT, I made sure that my name and address (or zip code) did not appear
in anything that I sent back. If I understand the USPS rates correctly
([https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm](https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm)),
each returned mail costs them $1.38. Maybe if enough people sent these
envelopes back (with junk), the low hit rate compared to cost of the returned
letters would make this business unprofitable.

~~~
tombert
I did something similar with the Peter Popoff scam letters...I would either
fill it with old dead batteries, or just go outside and fill it to the brim
with dirt. Nothing really identifiable with that, and it was a was a
relatively easy way to cost him money.

~~~
pnutjam
They pay a flat fee and you're wasting your time.
[https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/10/bank-junk-
mail-...](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/10/bank-junk-mail-brick/)

~~~
bdcravens
My takeaway from that article was they do pay for the postage, but there's
cost difference between a heavy item and a piece of paper. However, they are
charged.

~~~
Moru
I have been doing this the last 30 years only I return with name and
everything, and write a note on the empty external envelope. "please remove me
from your mailing list". Worked nicely so far.

~~~
silexia
It would be a far better use of everyone's time if instead of returning this
to them or sending dead batteries back, we all put that energy into lobbying
to permanently kill these types of industries.

------
chooseaname
> Senders of official-looking direct mail get around these restrictions by
> including language — often in fine print — declaring that the correspondence
> is not in fact official.

Ban fine print. Honestly. Anything that declares the correspondence is not
official has to be in the same point size as the body of the text, separated
out into it's own paragraph in plain no uncertain terms that the majority of
adults could understand.

~~~
technofiend
I worked at a title company and owned the escrow and documentation preparation
software. At the time they used line printers to print on carbon copy forms.
Each page was differently colored so the "original" was always the white top
copy. Getting a new copy of the paperwork was of course expensive and only the
original was accepted for certain purposes.

We had a very interesting conversation with the doc prep department when I
moved everything to using high speed laserjet printers. "Which one is the
original, now?" The end result was someone buying a large rubber stamp that
read "Original." :-)

~~~
rsclient
Put yourself in their shoes. What if one copy says the interest rate is 3.5%,
and the other says 3.8%? You SAY they are the same, but are the really?

If you have a strict policy of "one version is the 'original' and the rest are
'copies'", then wording of the 'original' gets legal priority. Legal priority
== much lower legal bills.

If you have a policy of "they are all the same", then when they are different,
you have a nasty, expensive legal fight.

~~~
technofiend
The real issue to me then and now was how do you prove the original is the
original? I pointed out then that frankly a good enough photocopy would also
be indistinguishable despite a rubber stamp. I no longer remember but I guess
the answer to that is red ink. This was prior to color photocopies being
readily available. Or maybe they bought themselves a crimper and embossed a
stamp.

~~~
muzika
Ink marks on the laler can be chemically analyzed, and I am sure forensics
teams learned long ago how to identify a photo copy.

------
scandox
Americans simply have no idea how (relatively) straightforward and simple
their model of property purchase, sale and ownership are.

In Ireland you get this letter in 8 point font from a company with no phone
number demanding 1000 euro for ground rent and threatening you with legal
action....AND it turns out to be completely legitimate because The Earl of
Blah Blah and the Archbishop of such and such owned your ground rent until
1978 (when the Irish government finally ended the feudal system) and they sold
it to some shifty operator who now collects and you're in arrears on your 11
euro per year since then and they've added admin charges...oh and you can buy
out your ground rent, but you have to fill out a 12 page form and make sure
you don't pay them unless you've confirmed they're the sole rights holder and
if you forget to pay and the lease expires (you know because the solicitor
forgot to mention the 275 year lease was expiring or something) then they own
your house OR you have to pay them 1/8th of the value to claw back the house
you bought perfectly legitimately.

Mild hyperbole here.

~~~
kube-system
Similar sorts of title issues can happen in the US, but we do a pretty good
job of mitigating those before a sale is completed. Do you not have title
searches and title insurance in Ireland?

It is standard practice in the US to hire a company to research any potential
title problems before sale, and additionally, buy insurance to protect against
potential issues that might not have been found.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_search](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_search)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_insurance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_insurance)

~~~
scandox
We do indeed have title search but instead of being a system for the
protection of ordinary persons, it is generally a wringer through which one is
pushed by the legal profession.

Of course you can sue your solicitor if they failed in their duty during so-
called conveyancing (generally a process that takes between 3 and 9 months
depending on their level of total incompetence). But then again after 7 years
you can no longer sue them...so depends how early these errors are spotted.

------
axaxs
Ugh. This reminds me of the USPS address change scam. Just type "change
address" into Google and see how many Ad results for this are thrown in top of
your search results. They are all semi official looking, and charge you. I'm
ashamed to admit I fell victim to one of these after a very long day of moving
and a few beers years back. The USPS offers this for $1(not free, thanks
ebg13)! I blame myself, but do wonder why Google allows and even promotes
these sites...

~~~
berdon
Oh, it doesn't only cost you $1. It also costs you at minimum a years worth of
free spam mail from various "You're moving! Here's a bunch of discount coupons
for things you don't need" that USPS sells your new address to.

~~~
MichaelApproved
Did you actually look at those coupons? I got 10% off _Amazon_ (up to $200
savings over 90 days which is reasonable to achieve) and 10% off Home Depot
(up to $100 saving).

A lot of people can benefit from that Amazon discount regardless of a recent
move. Plus Home Depot is super helpful if you moved into a house. There's
always something that needs work.

~~~
Spooky23
When I was renovating my home, I used to “move” to my current address to get
those coupons. Lowe’s used to take those coupons on top of their 5% discount.

------
cabaalis
I hold a belief in small government, but the spam mail I've been receiving
since building a house cries loudly for regulation.

They make this stuff look so official. They use IRS fonts. They print it on
pink paper. They write "final notice" when that's meaningless. They have your
PII from the public records and make it look like it's from your mortgage
group.

That kind of business should be treated as fraud. Who knows how many elderly
or otherwise have lost tons of money from these garbage "companies." They
should be ashamed.

~~~
azinman2
Regulation exists to protect people, property, the environment, or national
interests. It largely comes from a reaction to harms.

That’s not to say things evolve and regulation should keep up (or that it’s
ineffective for its goals), but I don’t understand why there’s such a fervent
backlash against it, particularly from the right. It largely feels fueled by
those who wish to profit from its undermining, and one particular party has
let it be known they’re open for business in that respect.

Did these concerns exist in say, the 1960s? 1910s?

~~~
kortilla
> but I don’t understand why there’s such a fervent backlash against it

Because it’s often both overreaching, ineffective, and/or harmful to unrelated
things. See: the war on drugs, gay marriage until the last decade, etc, etc.

The more you do at the federal level, the more fallout it’s going to have and
the harder it’s going to be to fix.

> and one particular party has let it be known they’re open for business in
> that respect.

This is a strawman to help delegitimize people who are against particular
regulations for philosophical reasons. I don’t recommend repeating it if you
want actual discussions. It’s like claiming most of the pro-choice movement is
driven by the abortion industry.

------
umeshunni
I fell for a similar scam recently. I needed a copy of a birth certificate and
my county's website was a mess and required showing up in person at the county
office. I found a site like this that promised to make the process smoother
and paid something like $50 for it and all they did was fill out the forms and
mail it to me so that I could go stand in line at the county office.

~~~
catalogia
For me the frustration is often the opposite. I show up to places in person
because I'd rather talk to human beings and fill out paper forms than use
their shitty website. Yet more and more often once I show up I'm told to use
one of their computers to access their website. I could have done that from
home!

~~~
Scoundreller
Heh, I was at the Apple store in Paris and couldn’t understand why people had
printed off pieces of paper and marking things off based on their research on
the computers there.

Like, how could you not do the research yourself in advance?

I have a hard time someone at the Apple Store doesn’t already have access to
internet elsewhere to do their research.

~~~
wgjordan
> I have a hard time someone at the Apple Store doesn’t already have access to
> internet elsewhere to do their research.

Perhaps someone at the Apple Store is there to purchase a device that will
give them access to the Internet which they don't currently have elsewhere?

------
ims
Another version of the grift is to scrape lists of newly registered businesses
and send out an official looking letter charging $80 to send a laminated
poster of the kind that some states mandate be posted, e.g. about workers'
comp.

Except that these materials can typically be printed out for free, and the
letter makes every effort to appear to be a mandatory bill coming from a
government agency.

~~~
cornellwright
I once had 3 guys in suits show up to a new office my work had opened. They
acted very official, asked to see our labor posters. I told them we don't have
any (should've asked for ID right then). They told me I could avoid a fine if
I bought some from them on the spot. At that point I caught on, asked for ID -
they showed me something official looking that didn't actually say they were
government. Once I asked them point blank if they worked for the government
they admitted it was a private company and I told them to leave.

It was a total scam, but it did make us be sure to get our labor posters hung
up though. (We just asked our payroll provider to send them to us and they
were free.)

------
adrr
Problem is easy to fix without explicitly outlawing the practices. If business
is selling government records, they need to disclose the actual cost in a
defined format on a separate insert. Violations are similar to canned spam law
and have a statutory damages of $750 per violation.

~~~
onion2k
For that to work you'd need to demonstrate the business is actually charging
$80 for the deed ... but they're not. Deep in the fine print there'll be
something about the cost being $3 for the deed and $86 for the "proof-reading,
checking, and validation service to ensure you have included the necessary
information for your deed request to be completed promptly". Regulating
against services that claim to help people would be _very_ difficult.

~~~
rtkwe
I think OP meant just for the violation of not properly displaying the base
cost of the service if you went to the county/city directly if you phrase it
properly it doesn't matter how much they charge as 'proof reading' services if
they don't show people that it only costs $3 directly they can get fined for
all the purchases made since it was last properly displayed wiping out their
profits.

I think also forcing them to link out to either the direct form or at least
some page explaining how to submit the form directly to the government would
also be a good idea in addition to forcing them to just show the base cost.
Force them to provide an actual value add instead of just fleecing people
looking for the correct way to do something.

~~~
JoshuaDavid
> I think also forcing them to link out to either the direct form or at least
> some page explaining how to submit the form directly to the government would
> also be a good idea

While I agree, I also kind of expect that if you did this they would find the
most difficult possible way to submit the form directly to the government that
would still work (e.g. "to renew your car registration without using our quick
and easy service, call the California DMV at [number] and request form REG
343. Fill in the form with your, vehicle identification number, make, model,
year, and [87 more fields]. Fax the form to [fax number] or make an in-person
appointment with the DMV").

~~~
rtkwe
It could, but only if the law allowed them to choose where to point to but it
could just as easily allow the agency to dictate the canonical website to
point to.

------
usaphp
> Washington state fined Local Records Office more than $3.6 million several
> years ago for allegedly violating state law “at least 256,998 times.”

How do they still exist and continue making the same thing? What's the point
of this fine if it does not change anything?

~~~
whamlastxmas
See virtually any fine against any industry ever. It never stops behavior. It
just lets the government in on the action

------
cynusx
There's a similar scam in europe with trademark registrations, funnily enough
there are more than one operator trying this so you get 3 or 4 of invoices to
register your trademark after you've registered your trademark.

~~~
toomuchtodo
This is common not just in SoCal, but across the US, with property deeds,
mortgage insurance, lots of shady businesses preying on the ignorance of
property owners when public record transactions are updated.

A simple fix would be to dictate, through legislation, that you can't provide
a government service such as a copy of your deed at a cost substantially above
the cost the government is providing it at.

~~~
frgotmylogin
A nonprofit that mails to lists based on the same thing, but with a postcard
listing common scams would be pretty cool. I was shocked by how much of this
stuff I got when I bought a house.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I would be very interested in partnering with local outreach groups and/or
Code For America to spin this up with Lob. After a postcard is designed, the
only cost should be postage (which, based on Lob's pricing, looks to be
between 41 cents and $1 per piece) and some compute time for taking property
record data and generating mail pieces with API calls to Lob.

Not a permanent solution, but an effective shim until regulation catches up.
"Department of Hotfixes"

~~~
frgotmylogin
Let me know if you do it!

------
tylerchilds
This reminds me of how San Mateo county uses a third-party petdata.com for
licensing dogs.

I made a faux-website complaining about how easy it would be to create an
official looking scam website, particularly how the entire county uses .org
domain names.

Fake website: [http://sanmateogov.org/](http://sanmateogov.org/)

------
nkrisc
I receive stuff like this all the time because one of my cars will be out of
the manufacturer's warranty soon. They masquerade as if they're form the OEM
and offering to sell me additional coverage. Even though this has nothing to
do with government services they still manage to make them seem "official" and
alarming if you don't take any action ("You could be liable for thousands of
dollars of damages!").

I'm actually more pissed at the OEM for giving these companies my information.

~~~
fortran77
You'll get these calls and mail whether or not you own a car and no matter
what the warranty status is.

~~~
nkrisc
The ones I received were very specific. I can't recall now if they had the
actual expiry date of the warranty, but they struck me as clearly having some
insight into me or my vehicle.

Perhaps they only stuck with me because they seemed accurate and it was only
coincidence.

------
munificent
_> The solution, I’ll say again, is a law that prohibits nonofficial
communications from appearing to be official — with hefty fines for crossing
the line._

 _Jail time._ Fines means that the law is simply another part of the
business's cost calculations. If the fine is low enough, and it often is, then
it can still be "good business" to knowingly break the law, pay the fine, and
still pull a profit.

Putting actual law-breaking humans in jail changes the cost-benefit analysis
dramatically.

~~~
mamon
Putting people in jail for small scale, non-violent crimes isn't a good idea -
it can convert petty thief into real criminal. People who have jail time on
their permanent record feel like they have nothing left to lose, and go all-in
on their criminal career.

~~~
munificent
If your entire multi-million dollar business hinges on manipulating people
into believing you are something you are not so that they send you money
without being provided any value in return, you aren't a petty thief. You are
a large-scale criminal enterprise and deserve to be treated as such. This
dude's a parasite on society.

------
coding123
Same scams exist for:

Hotels (when you're booking, are you SURE you're booking with the actual
hotel?) They may be collecting money to simply reserve the room under your
name, but not pay for it - even if they just charged you the same amount. A
$119 charge to call the hotel and put in your name.

Health Insurance (When you enter your phone number/email/name there are
companies that simply collect money by re-sending your contact info to about
100 sub-scam companies. You may end up with insurance but through the worst
types of people that have resold and resold. Oh and don't forget you'll be on
some of the WORST robocalling services.

Pretty much all CC fraud "watch" services - especially if your own credit card
company signed you up. Taking out a line of credit, if it was not valid - is
already something you are protected against. If you have someone to "watch"
that stuff for you, it's not really protecting you further.

------
mcv
I understand that these scammers automatically send their letters whenever
something changes about an address. Wouldn't it be a fantastic public service
if someone else automatically sent those same people a letter warning them of
this scam and directing them towards more honest services?

------
rtb
Surely this is just fraud, i.e. obtaining money by deception? Do they really
need a new law to ban this, or do they need to enforce the existing laws
better?

------
altacc
There are so many of these scams out there. The internet allows people to
google to check if it's legit, but they'll also find a lot of online firms
offering the same service at a markup, which helps convince people that the
original letter was legit.

In the UK it's free to change your name, you can just write your name change
on a peice of paper, get a couple of friends to sign it and you're done. I've
done this, but when I tried to explain to someone else the free process they
told me I was wrong, citing scam websites with semi-official names that
charged for the process.

~~~
Scoundreller
Same with « will kits » that are a template that you fill out. And the legal
jurisprudence in Canada that make them valid is a farmer getting stuck under
his tractor scratching in his will in the fender with a rock.

------
rsclient
The first indication I got that my patent was accepted was a letter offering
me a nice "official" plaque with the patent on it.

A few days later, my boss showed up with a thank-you gift.

------
iamben
I have a few domains without private registration. I often get an email a few
months before they're due to expire from a business that will renew them. It's
very strongly worded about how I'm about to "lose them", lots of capital
letters and lots of red text. The cost to renew is $90 or so.

I've often wondered how many people fall for it (I assume enough they keep
doing it), and whether they actually renew them, or just take some money and
run.

~~~
bt3
Through the years I've bought domains for hobby projects and such that
ultimately I'll let expire. Usually after receiving tons of emails, such as
you've described, it's followed by a "we now own your domain, pay up" threat.

I've even had firms purchase other extensions for my domain (particularly a
.org, .net, or .co), then email me asking to buy it from them. I usually
respond and tell them I'm selling the .com domain myself and they can purchase
it directly from me for half of the price they're offering to sell me the
other extensions.

No one has ever taken me up on my offer.

~~~
_jal
Be careful making flip counteroffers like that, if you actually do care about
the domains at all.

Offering to sell can be twisted into "extortion" in a UDRP proceeding if
you're not careful.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Domain-Name_Dispute-
Re...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Domain-Name_Dispute-
Resolution_Policy)

~~~
bt3
A fair warning. Wouldn't any engaged legal group understand that if I had
registered the .com first, then a company was offering to sell me a .org, etc.
after my purchase, that is more extortionist than me trying to recoup the
registration fees of a domain name I no longer need?

Agree if I want to keep the domain, I'd be careful not to lead anyone on -
scammer or otherwise.

~~~
_jal
I'm no URDP expert; I've been peripherally involved a couple times. By
impression of the process is that, like most processes of this sort, outcomes
can depend heavily on getting good representation. Even if you think something
makes obvious sense.

------
Hamuko
I've encountered something very similar, although not in the US.

When you register a business, that is public knowledge and can be acquired by
marketers very easily. Then someone calls you up, makes you believe that they
are the tax authorities (although very carefully never saying that they are)
and get you to pay for a registration, which might make a new entrepreneur
confused and think that they need this to be VAT registered.

Those who sign up have actually signed up to be in a shitty business directory
made by someone's 14-year-old nephew. They provide nothing of value since no
one uses their website and there are free business directories that just add
your business as soon as it hits the tax authorities' database. But they will
claim that they are providing you with crucial advertising.

If you don't pay up, they will say that you have a valid contract with them
and you have to pay, or else. If you wish to hear the contract between you and
them, they will say that the recording is purely for judicial action - you're
not getting it. So unless you record all of your calls, you have no copy of
the contract.

The sums are not massive. Maybe 300 euros. Definitely valuable, but perhaps
not so valuable that you want to waste your time fighting it.

------
shanecleveland
I've seen this for trademark maintenance fees. They send an official-liking
letter saying it is time to file required paperwork and pay fees, which is
true, but they charge double to do what you can do yourself in five minutes on
the official USPTO website.

Services like this for getting a copy of your birth certificate, too.
Basically pay to access the freely available form from state websites.

------
shanecleveland
Reminds me of [https://nypost.com/2013/06/30/cab-lost-found-
scam/](https://nypost.com/2013/06/30/cab-lost-found-scam/)

Pay shame site to "submit" items lost in NYC taxis. I think all it does is
post your submission to the site so it is publicly viewable.

------
elchief
I recently had to get personal workers compensation insurance for a contract
(bc). Could have gone through a service to do it. Employer would have paid.
Would cost them $6000/year, with a ~$2400 tax liability to me. Did it myself
for $10/month and ten minutes filling out a form

------
tomxor
> Section 17200 bans “any unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or
> practice, and unfair, _deceptive_ , untrue or misleading advertising.”
> Senders of official-looking direct mail get around these restrictions by
> including language — often in _fine print_ — declaring that the
> correspondence is not in fact official. Such a disclosure makes it the
> consumer’s responsibility to figure out what’s happening.

How could putting such information in fine-print escape any definition of
"deception" when the obscurity of that information is vital to their
operation.

On the face of it, it seems more likely they are illegal yet unchallenged. I
doubt they would hold up in any reasonable court of law.

------
droithomme
Even $3 is high for just a copy of the deed.

I always do my own title search when buying property. You go to the courthouse
and you just go back one page at a time. Each deed references the previous
ones. You copy each on the photocopier there which if you live in a fair and
reasonable county costs 10-25 cents a page. Or you can even bring your own
scanner in if you like. Go back 100 years or so. Then at your leisure later
review each of these for liens and encumbrances. And also whack problems with
the boundary descriptions, or questionable issues with right of way.

Doing this is way more valuable than paying hundreds to somebody to hand you
off something they are pretending to be a proper title search.

------
fortran77
If you have a business of any sort, there are companies that look for business
licenses, LLC formations, etc, and send official looking forms sometimes with
fine print saying they're not the Government and sometimes without, offering
to do the same thing you can do for a small fee for a much bigger one. They're
not adding any value at all. The form you have to fill out for the government
requires the same information as their form.

I probably get at least one of these a month. Everything from trademark
renewal to burglar alarm permit renewal.

------
rickdeckard
> "When Brusius altered the name on her deed, that may have triggered the
> solicitation."

Sorry in Advance, I'm not familiar with this formal process. If the whole
exchange is triggered by completing the property deed, what's the service this
company claims to provide for $89?

I understand it's a scam, but what is the "alibi-service" they deliver in
return for the payment?

------
spoontoeat
I fell for this with "First Documents" for a total of almost $93 a year or so
ago. Also received a solicitation from "Local Records Office" as stated in
this article. When the second of the two arrived I knew I had been had.

I reported it to my Credit Card company as fraud given the official looking
nature of everything, and they promptly refunded the purchase.

------
arrty88
I bought a house last month and received this same exact letter from a similar
firm asking for $79 doll hairs. What a trick.

------
test6554
I almost wish that there were different kinds of stamps for different kinds of
mail. Personal, Government/Official, Commercial. You simply apply the correct
kind of stamp for the correct kind of mail and then the recipient can be more
aware of the scam.

------
United857
Perhaps the solution is for local governments to not make this data publically
available en-masse (or at least anonymize it)?

Genuinely curious -- what valid non-commercial use case does publicly knowing
the names, prices, etc. of everyone who bought/sold a house serve?

------
rolltiide
When you form a new business entity the firms that help you do it will charge
$50-$100 for an EIN number from the IRS. This is the tax ID for artificial
persons, whereas the SSN is the tax ID for natural persons.

You can get an EIN from the IRS online for free in 5 minutes.

------
sol_remmy2
The business behind this is a Washington State corporation - LA INVESTORS LLC.
Is there anyway to find the names of the investors behind this business? The
least we can do is expose the scammers responsible for this

~~~
seandougall
That company name is listed on
[https://ccfs.sos.wa.gov/](https://ccfs.sos.wa.gov/) (the record does not have
a unique URL to link to, sorry). There is one officer listed, but it looks
like the LLC was dissolved in 2016. I wonder if they're continuing operations
anyway, or is somebody else spoofing their name somehow?

------
mmanfrin
When I bought my house, I very nearly fell for this. They are very official
looking, with faux degraded copying artifacts on a 'proof' deed. Even if
currently legal, this is absolutely a scam.

------
ChrisMarshallNY
As the owner of a couple of corporations, I get crap like this all the time;
often with implicit threats of legal repercussions.

The letters can look VERY official; sometimes almost clones of official state
mailings.

------
growt
Same thing here in Germany. Once you have a registered company you'll receive
lots of official looking invoices from scammers for some sort of register.

------
dsfyu404ed
It's not just private companies you have to worry about doing this.

After you buy a property my local government sends you an mandatory looking
survey in an attempt to a) rat on the previous owner for un-permitted
improvements b) build a case for valuing your house higher for taxes c)
preemptively admit to non-compliance with city specific laws you probably
don't know about yet.

I was going to write a letter to the local newspaper but I thought better of
drawing attention to myself that way.

------
itake
This happens all the time in Florida when you register an LLC or get licensed
as a real estate agent. It's a shame.

------
lordnacho
Ever tried travelling to the US? If you look for the ESTA site the official
site looks less legit than the scam sites.

~~~
kube-system
The ESTA site looks like it uses the US government's standard design system,
and it has a .gov domain.

Identifying official US government websites is like the easiest thing on the
internet -- the US is the only country in the world with their own TLD
dedicated to government websites.

I can't think of a more 'legit' look than that, although I guess if you're not
from the US you probably haven't visited US government websites very often and
might not have much of a reference point.

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neonate
[http://archive.is/5hU9H](http://archive.is/5hU9H)

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foogazi
Why can’t the USPS block mail spam?

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xenospn
For every "unnecessary and burdensome regulation" in the books people love
complaining about so much, there are people like these who exploit and profit
off of loopholes in the system.

~~~
linksnapzz
The rate at which exploitation of people (via exploitation of loopholes)
occurs does not have a continuous positive linear correlation with the number
and complexity of the regulations.

