
The Promise of CBD, the Cannabis Chemical That Won’t Get You High - okket
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/on-and-off-the-avenue/keep-calm-and-live-in-new-york-city-the-promise-of-cbd
======
aphextron
Anecdotally, as someone with moderate bipolar depression and severe anxiety, a
1:1 THC/CBD tincture has been a miracle cure for me. I’ve spent my whole life
going through every SSRI and mood stabilizer in the book, and the side effects
have _always_ been worse than just going unmedicated. This is the only thing
that has ever truly helped me. Cannabinoids seem to be highly synergistic,
where THC can ease the depression but increase anxiety, while CBD decreases
the anxiety to be manageable. Either one alone is far less effective.

~~~
mpfundstein
so what do I have to buy? I live in Amsterdam. Is it just a specific sort of
weed from the coffeeshop or do I need something special?

~~~
richsherwood
The strains are harder to find as they are considered premium strains these
days with the rise of CBD but an easy replacement would be to consume your
regular cannabis and then take a CBD pill immediately afterwards. It won’t be
exact 1:1 but you can play around with it to get the effect you desire.

------
spraak
OK, this article is trying so hard to sound cool.

> The oil was the brownish color of a stagnant pond, and tasted like old bong
> water with a hint of lemon.

It sounds like they haven't actually tried bong water, unless the CBD tincture
they had was actually incredibly poorly made. Bong water is... not something
you just drop on your tongue. It's hard for me to illustrate but it's very
disgusting, unpalatable.

> After ingesting it—perhaps, I will admit, because I really wanted to
> believe—I thought I felt something

I think it's possible that some people feel effects from CBD alone, but most
people probably need a more whole spectrum cannabinoid profile to benefit.
I.e. the "entourage effect":

> First described in 1998 by Israeli scientists Shimon Ben-Shabat and Raphael
> Mechoulam, the basic idea of the entourage effect is that cannabinoids
> within the cannabis plant work together, or possess synergy, and affect the
> body in a mechanism similar to the body’s own endocannabinoid system. [1]

> I told him that I had tried CBD in coffee

Not the author's fault there... these substances are very opposite.

Finally I'd like to say for anyone wanting to experience the healing effects
from cannabis without getting high should look into raw cannabis, or THCA and
CBDA, which are the acid forms of THC and CBD and in studies I've seen provide
anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer etc. effects (as THC and CBD are claimed to)
but without the psychoactivity.

[1] [https://www.medicaljane.com/2014/05/14/thc-cbd-and-more-
the-...](https://www.medicaljane.com/2014/05/14/thc-cbd-and-more-the-
entourage-effect-of-whole-plant-cannabis-medicine/)

~~~
marpstar
I've been sampling CBD oil from a few different sources the past few months. I
just received a bottle from Bluebird Botanicals (as the author did). Their
website warns you before purchase about the taste, and after sampling three
other products, I just ignored the warning.

I received it yesterday and WOW it tastes AWFUL. It's really bad.

~~~
agumonkey
under the tongue intake ?

I'm wondering if it's possible to inhale CBD with the old bowl of near boiling
water.

~~~
freeflight
Dissolving under the tongue, for like 1-2 minutes, is the most common
application advice I've seen with CBD oils.

~~~
pmoriarty
But does it actually make any difference?

~~~
windows_tips
Absorption through the mouth skips a large portion of the digestive system.

------
arminiusreturns
I'm shadowbanned so I don't know why I respond to things anymore but...

Hemp-derived cbd is legal in all 50 states, which is appealing for legal
reasons, but I've found cannabis derived cbd is much more effective.

Also, please be careful and research what you are injesting. There are a lot
of cbd oils these days that have added terpenes and other things. If you can't
find a scientific terpene profile I wouldn't use it, or even better, use
things without the added stuff.

As a comat vet with ptsd I think it's a moral outrage that the one easy to
grow plant that helps me and my buddies is illegal. Personally, I also think
it's unconstitutional as well, but there is a good debate to be had (that I
haven't seen yet) about states abuse of general welfare and health clauses to
justify their attacks on it, along with good discussion about the abuse of the
Commerce clause at the federal level.

Ps; dang, this isn't an alt, I changed my password without looking on the
other account.

~~~
efficax
I dunno if shadow banning is a thing here but we can see your comments

------
wnmurphy
CBD is a CB1 receptor antagonist, which means it suppresses activity in those
receptors which are found in the brain and the tissues of other organs
throughout the entire body. Excess CB1 activity seems to be implicated in many
different disorders (most notably obesity).

Chronic CB1 receptor antagonism is associated with:

\- lowered blood pressure

\- increased levels of Akkermensia bacteria in the gut (associated with
leanness)

\- decreased lipogenesis (creation of new fat cells)

\- decreased fat masss

\- resistance to obesity, despite caloric surplus

\- increased fatty acid oxidation

\- increased adiponectin

\- increased transdifferentiation of white fat into metabolically active brown
fat

\- increased insulin sensitivity

\- reduced insulin levels

\- increased leptin sensitivity

\- reduced proteinurea and improved creatinine clearance in kidney disease

\- smoking and cocaine cessation

\- reduction in depression symptoms

\- reduced anxiety

Search PubMed for "CB1 antagonist" or "chronic CB1 blockade" to see what kinds
of things CB1 antagonism can do. You'll find quite a lot of research into
Rimonabant (another CB1 antagonist) but unfortunately it was found to cause
psychological side effects like depression and suicidal ideation; CBD does not
have these effects.

There are several anecdotal reports the on /r/cbd subreddit where people start
taking it for anxiety and depression, and end up losing 10-40 lbs. of excess
weight without trying.

I've found that it helps me sleep deeply, helps me focus at work, and I am
satiated after much smaller amounts of food than before. I also notice that I
can run at a significantly higher intensity on the treadmill for much longer
with CBD.

I have recommended CBD to 7 or 8 people, and each one reports a plethora of
benefits: helps depression, anxiety, ADHD, sleep, weight loss, brain fog,
overeating, etc.

There seems to be a good amount of variety in the quality of non-isolate CBD
products. Some contain minute amounts of THC and other psychoactive
cannabinoids, so they may cause you to fail a drug test if that's a concern.

CBD is one incredibly beneficial compound. I highly recommend you try it if
it's available where you live.

~~~
harigov
Is there a specific brand that you recommend?

~~~
wnmurphy
Green Mountain, located in Vermont, makes a variety of lab-tested products
which seem to be fairly high quality at a good price point.

------
rcar1046
I've tried full spectrum CBD from a reliable source and I'm jealous of
everyone who seem to be reaping all of these benefits. I'm unfortunately not
on that side of the fence. I've tried different doses from tinctures under the
tongue etc...but I couldn't say I notice any difference in mood, anxiety,
muscle soreness, joint pain et al.

------
tasty_freeze
I have the start of arthritis in my hands. I just spent $50 on a topical salve
with hemp-derived CBD oil after reading a lot of reviews about how effective
it is.

The next day I checked if there was any research on its efficacy. Due to the
volume of pages touting the benefits of CBD, finding the actual research was
difficult. Most of the search results were either vendors or medical mj
boosters.

The best I found was this:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4851925/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4851925/)

Sure enough, CBD did help reduce inflammation and increased joint mobility in
arthritic rats ... at a dose of 6.2mg/day. Considering that I'm hundreds of
times more massive than a rat, and that my 2oz jar contains 150mg of CBD oil
total, I'm probably getting 2mg of CBD oil per application.

That seems to confirm that the self-reported benefits of topical CBD oil is
mostly placebo effect.

~~~
windows_tips
Get a salve made with cannabis and other plants. Something like:
[http://www.papaandbarkley.com/product/releaf-
balm/](http://www.papaandbarkley.com/product/releaf-balm/)

~~~
mkl
Can you link to some medical evidence of the efficacy of that?

~~~
windows_tips
What type would you like? Do you think doctors would recommend such products
and patients would continue to buy such products if they didn't work/help?

~~~
mkl
You replied to someone complaining about medically ineffective doses with an
evidenceless recommendation of another low-dose product.

Doctors and patients both benefit from the placebo effect - if it solves the
problem, great, doctor and patient are happy and continue to do it.

I have health issues no one knows how to treat, and I have had doctors
(qualified medical experts with decades of experience) recommend things there
was little to no reliable evidence for currently, just in case they worked
(didn't for me).

I (and lawmakers - CBD etc. are illegal where I am) want to know if things
actually work.

~~~
windows_tips
There are probably higher dose formulations.

The key here, though, is that formulation contains THC (and extracts from
other plants) and is derived from marijuana cannabis plants, instead of just
hemp-derived CBD.

------
newnewpdro
The few times I've tried CBD oil it turned me into an extrovert like a light
switch. Normally being quite introverted, I found the experiences interesting
but exhausting.

Another product which I've found has a very similar effect on me, albeit
weaker, is 5-HTP supplements taken orally.

Sometimes I'd take a large 5-HTP dose then go out to used book stores, talking
to everyone I encountered. It's fun to occasionally visit being that person,
but it's such foreign territory I'm not particularly good at it and by the end
of the day it feels like I've been working at some horrible, inane, unfamiliar
job. I don't know how extroverts find the energy for all the interaction while
still getting shit done.

CBD was probably having other effects on me, but the extroversion was the most
prominent from what I recall.

~~~
mmt
> Normally being quite introverted, I found the experiences interesting but
> exhausting.

It sounds like you're still introverted, even while drug-induced into being
more social (perhaps you're conflating shyness with introversion?). An
extrovert would feel energized by the socializing, not exhausted, which
answers your later question.

------
booleandilemma
So is Soma on the horizon then?

[https://www.shmoop.com/brave-new-world/soma-
symbol.html](https://www.shmoop.com/brave-new-world/soma-symbol.html)

~~~
pmoriarty
I'd rather hope it's something more like moksha.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_%28Huxley_novel%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_%28Huxley_novel%29)

------
zfrenchee
I'm really perplexed by this refrain that CDB is "not psychoactive"

> A psychoactive drug, psychopharmaceutical, or psychotropic is a chemical
> substance that changes brain function and results in alterations in
> perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, or behavior. source:
> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug)

Isn't the point of taking it that it's psychoactive?

~~~
majewsky
This definition does not match people's expectation of what counts as
"psychoactive". By this definition, if eating chocolate alleviates my bad
mood, it's a psychoactive drug.

~~~
GalacticDomin8r
Seems like that's a good definition then, if it's reproducible across a large
number of people in a scientifically rigorous format.

------
dood
From a little personal experimentation I've been surprisingly impressed. It
helps winding down before bed after a hard day, but also helps to settle the
mind for work, and doesn't interfere with concentration. Unlike other health
fads (e.g. coconut oil, tumeric) it appears to have a quickly observable
effect.

I theorize it may work by reducing or helping to manage stress. This could
explain why it has raving supporters for a wide variety of real problems in
distinct online communities, since stress is such an important factor in many
kinds of physical and mental health issues. Admittedly it is hard to detect
the placebo effect, but the indications so far are promising.

If it lives up to half of the promise of the online claims by people with
significant problems, it is going to be huge. I'm wondering if there is an
investment opportunity there somewhere, but don't know enough about that sort
of thing.

It should be pointed out that there are a lot of bad or fraudulent products
available, the market is immature and full of hype. But there are quality oils
which taste good and work well. Also worth noting that much less is absorbed
by drinking rather than than putting under the tongue.

There are also some bold claims flying around about it's effect on the
Endocannabinoid system [1], and how improvements to that can improve many
aspects of health and self-regulation. Whatever it does, I have a hunch that
science is going to turn up some interesting results from looking into it.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system)

------
alexandercrohde
So I've experimented consistently with pure CBD (0 THC. Even 16:1 CBD:THC is
too much for me). In my opinion, it's better than weed, at least for those of
us who are more sensitive to marijuana than most (e.g. I probably couldn't
drive high).

I'm not saying I put it in my coffee every morning, but the relaxing effect is
real and powerful. Certainly a better substance than alcohol for taking the
edge off in my opinion.

You could probably write software while on CBD. If I had to characterize the
effects, I'd say it makes one less intense, more patient, cures headache, and
gives warm-fuzzies for a few hours. The following day you may be slightly more
irritable than average though.

(Note in NYC you can sometimes get it over the counter in some head shops. In
SF you can get it with a medicinal card)

~~~
samstave
Would CBD show on a typical 5-panel test which tests for THC?

~~~
aphextron
Well it's a completely different molecule than THC, so no.

~~~
windows_tips
It's not completely different. They appear to be identical in large portion.
Check the diagrams at:
[https://patents.google.com/patent/US6630507B1/en](https://patents.google.com/patent/US6630507B1/en)

------
ArtWomb
One of the trainers at my gym swears by a CBD oil as relief for muscle
soreness. Have yet to try it. But can easily see how it will soon be a
household item in every medicine cabinet. Much like "ben-gay" back in the day
;)

First NIH sponsored CBD study to begin shortly. And interestingly enough, it
will evaluate whether CBD is effective in reducing the cravings for alcohol in
sufferers of PTSD!

[https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03248167](https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03248167)

------
mindgam3
I live with complex PTSD and CBD has been a godsend. For those looking for a
flower (to smoke, not tincture) with high CBD and very low THC (reduce anxiety
without the high, very conducive to deep focus work) I recently discovered a
strain called C3PO, also sold under the Marley Naturals brand. It’s an
incredibly “clean” experience - no noticeable side effects. Worth checking out
if you deal with potentially crippling anxiety on a somewhat regular basis.

~~~
prolikewh0a
As someone with crippling anxiety and PTSD, thanks! I know Marley Naturals is
found in some stores in Seattle, so I'll try to look for that strain.

------
antoniuschan99
There will be more and more info in the coming months about CBG, CBC, CBN, etc
and its effectiveness to alleviate certain things.

Eg. CBN is now known to be the compound that makes you lazy or couch locked

Here's a good talk by Manuel Guzman on his labs studies on Cannabinoids and
Cancer

[https://youtu.be/lHI6RcTKdNk](https://youtu.be/lHI6RcTKdNk)

------
hourislate
It's interesting to me that it took so long to catch on in the West. In
Eastern Europe, it has been a well known fact for centuries that Hemp Oil was
calming/soothing. They would even give a little to fussy babies to help calm
them down. I suppose everything old becomes new again.

------
lerie82
It seems mainstream media takes so long to get actual news, people have been
using CBD for years but now that it's becoming more popular it's okay to
report on it.

I wonder what other great medical news the mainstream media is refusing to
report.

------
ams6110
For those subject to random drug testing, can legal CBD use trigger a postive
result for marijuana?

~~~
hangtwenty
As far as I know if it is extracted from hemp only, and the label says 0% THC
from a reputable analysis company, those tests will not show it.

------
etaioinshrdlu
CBD is definitely psychoactive. It just doesn't feel very good at all. (For
some people.)

~~~
pwaai
it's negligible, like I feel more high by drinking coughee

------
swayvil
yay, we aren't gonna get high!

