
OpenJDK now available for Windows - jsiepkes
https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/06/27/openjdk-now-available-for-windows/
======
ptx
To download the installer you have to join Red Hat's developer program and
agree to the terms and conditions[1] which state that the services are for
"development purposes only" and that "using the services provided under the
Program for a production installation" is a violation of the terms.

So presumably I can't distribute this installer to my users or even have them
install it themselves for production purposes?

[1] [https://developers.redhat.com/terms-and-
conditions/](https://developers.redhat.com/terms-and-conditions/)

~~~
DannyB2
Additionally, it is delivered as an MSI, making it less usable.

I would also like a simple ZIP file please with no installer. I like to set up
some software with an environment variable that points to which JRE / JDK that
I want it to use.

Example Use Case:

One Windows OS. Several smallish Tomcat servers. Each Tomcat server has
environment variables that point to the CATALINA_HOME (a base unpacked tomcat
folder), and a JAVA_HOME which points to a JDK or JRE.

I can stop a tomcat service. Remove it from Services control panel. Change
some environment variable pointers in a .BAT file. Re-add it to Services
control panel. Then restart the service. Now that server might point to a
different Java and/or different Tomcat release.

Similarly Eclipse. I don't "install" it. Just unpack it and create a shortcut
to it's launcher. Set its configuration file to point to which of my various
Java versions I want it to use -- including multiple vendor's implementations.

Red Hat: I don't WANT to "install" a JDK on Windows.

~~~
marcoperaza
I do the same thing on Windows. I try to "install" as little software as
possible, and just keep a directory that has all of my software and a few
scripts to create start menu shortcuts, file associations, etc.

You should be able to extract an msi with the right msiexec command line
switches.

~~~
DannyB2
I thought of that. I can often extract MSIs using 7zip. I was about to
download until I read that it can only be used for development purposes.
Apparently I have to agree not to redistribute it. No thanks Red Hat.

Elsewhere in this thread I discovered:

[https://github.com/ojdkbuild/ojdkbuild](https://github.com/ojdkbuild/ojdkbuild)

And I already knew about:

[http://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/](http://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/)

The more OpenJDK folders I have to test against (on both Linux and Windows),
the better. Just change environment variables.

------
pieter_mj
Coincidentally when i tried that link (
[https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/overview/](https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/overview/)
) yesterday it wasn't available.

there's also a github repository with openjdk 8 windows builds availabe as zip
:
[https://github.com/ojdkbuild/ojdkbuild](https://github.com/ojdkbuild/ojdkbuild)

~~~
cmiles74
The license on the Github repository seems much more reasonable:

OpenJDK binaries are released under the GNU GPL v. 2 with classpath exception.

Project icon is taken from Nuvola icon set, it is released under the GNU LGPL
v. 2.1.

Build scipts are released under the Apache License 2.0.

Other sources and binaries in this project (cygwin, freetype etc.) are
released under their corresponding licenses.

------
fs111
You can also get OpenJDK for Windows (with support) from Azul systems:
[http://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/](http://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/)

~~~
therealmarv
Actually this is also the only easy macOS OpenJDK install solution I've found
so far.

~~~
koolba
Check out [https://github.com/shyiko/jabba](https://github.com/shyiko/jabba)

It's like nvm (for Node.js) but for installing JDKs.

~~~
michaelmrose
On linux you can use your package manager + alternative system.

------
ysleepy
Interesting. In light of recent Oracle JavaSE licencing enforcement
(MissionControl etc.) this will provide some safety from legal uncertainty.

And maybe redHat will also release a JDK6 build for Windows for the poor souls
( _cough_ ) who are forced to deploy with good old JDK6 even though it is
unpatched.

~~~
lmm
Given that those stuck on JDK6 tend to be large corporations with deep pockets
(and often a policy requirement to have a commercial support contract for all
their software anyway), I think that's precisely the part they wouldn't want
to do for free.

~~~
davidgerard
Our use case is a proprietary app that still requires Java 6. Fortunately,
OpenJDK 6 is still supported and security-fixed (well, backported patches) in
Debian/Ubuntu.

~~~
lmm
OpenJDK 6 won't be around forever. I strongly advise figuring out an exit
strategy for that app.

~~~
davidgerard
well, yes :-) It's an old version of Quova, an IP geolocator from Neustar. The
new version is way better, _but_ we can't be bothered rewriting the stuff that
uses it until we have to.

~~~
lmm
Java 6 EOL should be your "have to". It will be easier to fix before you get a
hard deadline, and it's easier to upgrade by one version twice than by two
versions once.

------
tokenizerrr
I love OpenJDK. It hurts my soul whenever I see an open source project using
proprietary Oracle APIs. Most recently I ran into this with Graylog. Great
product, but it's unit tests won't run without the Oracle JDK.

~~~
mateuszf
We'd be happy to use OpenJDK, but few days ago we discovered a bug (feature?)
that works differently in HotSpot - so we had to migrate our services to it.

~~~
slrz
OpenJDK _is_ the HotSpot VM.

~~~
mateuszf
Yeah, that's what I thought too. However I'm seeing different behaviour on
these two vms with the same version.

~~~
__old_dude__
Already been there :( the command line flags by default are different

You can do a diff using java -XX:+PrintFlagsFinal

------
davidgerard
An important win here is that we can now give our Windows-using developers
_the same_ Java on their PCs that we run on the live Ubuntu 14.04 servers.

(they get a Windows 7 PC from IT, which they can use as-is or load Linux onto,
on a "you break it we wipe it" support basis.)

------
satysin
Note this does not include JavaFX/OpenJFX.

~~~
snuxoll
Primarily because Red Hat traditionally cross-compiles anything for Windows
within their existing Koji build system, and Gradle is not in the RHEL or
Fedora repositories because it's such a pain in the ass to bootstrap (you can
often build Gradle 1.X with 1.X - 1, but not 1.X itself which makes trying to
maintain the package a challenge in your own sanity).

If OpenJFX switched to Maven or Gradle, Inc. made their product less janky to
work with it could easily be included in the OpenJDK packages - you can still
just build it yourself and toss the .jar in the OpenJDK directory and it will
work, at least.

------
SoapSeller
Is there a way to download this without registering to red hat developer
network?

~~~
ungamed
oddly, it directed me to 'register' to download, but the download started
before i registered anyway.

------
zyztem
I wonder how Red Hat plan to monetize this?

~~~
mattl
This is for people who are deploying to RHEL. They'd be happy to sell you a
RHEL support contract.

------
pawadu
In case you don't know what this is all about:

Oracles Java contains a number of "commercial" stuff that costs money. So in
theory, you could download the standard Java SE and run certain tools or the
standard tools with certain command line arguments and suddenly owe Oracle a
shipload of money. And I am talking a lot of money, like $40.000 for a single
machine. And yes, they have started using SDK analytics to map potential
"costumers" and sending them huge bills:

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/)

Someone suggested migrating to OpenJDK which does not (for most parts) include
these tools and have a more sane license. The problem is that OpenJDK does not
come with a Window installation from a reputable source.

 _TL;DR: Larry Ellison needs a new yacht and since Google is not paying he is
now sending his lawyers after ordinary folks who thought Java was free._

~~~
DiabloD3
Honestly, we need to just fork Java away from Oracle, just like Solaris and
ZFS have been done.

I find it deliciously ironic that Oracle's products are no longer compatible
with Solaris and ZFS because they won't follow upstream... because they don't
understand they aren't upstream anymore.

Java needs the same treatment.

~~~
geodel
OpenJDK has about ~750 contributors with more than half associated/employed or
sponsored by Oracle contributing to most significant part of JDK.

It is about 1M+ lines of highly optimized C/C++ code and 4M lines of Java
code. So it is not like a package or a library that a dozen or contributor
manage well. And Considering payment is the core issue here I do not know how
highly paid people will be made to work on JDK.

~~~
sangnoir
> And Considering payment is the core issue here I do not know how highly paid
> people will be made to work on JDK.

They will be _employed_ to work on the JDK: there are plenty of companies that
are already involved in Java and employ people to work on it outside of
Oracle.

Hypothetically IBM, Red Hat, Google and the other non-Hotspot VM makers could
band together and fork Java successfully - hell, a even a bank or 3 will want
in on the action. They will have to name it something else and prepare for the
inevitable epic lawsuit, but funding people to work in the JDK will nor be a
problem.

~~~
geodel
I think all 3 you mentioned are spending not insignificant resources in other
programing languages.

IBM sees future in Swift LOB apps and Go on blockchain related efforts. Also
with open sourcing of their own J9 components they would be even less inclined
to participate in OpenJDK fork or some such

Redhat sees Ceylon on apps side and with all this containerization thing going
on, may be quite a bit of Go.

Google of course is betting big on Dart on apps side and Go on infra side.

For Banks I do not see any issue at all to either pay Oracle or Azul to get
commercially supported JDK. Their main unique requirements are either high-
perf GC(Azul) or high perf collections which they anyway write for themselves.

~~~
snuxoll
Red Hat still has a _lot_ of money invested in the JVM ecosystem, see all the
JBoss products. Ceylon also targets the JVM, so even if not Java The Language
we will see Red Hat continue to support Java The Platform for a long time.

~~~
geodel
Indeed. And that will be excellent reason not to go on warpath with Oracle
when so many of Red Hat customers look to run Oracle certified Java and other
Oracle Enterprise products on Red hat systems.

------
elcct
I hope after Flash, Java is next technology to go...

~~~
meddlepal
Why? The JVM is awesome. Or are you just trying to be an edgelord with that
hot take?

~~~
elcct
It is unnecessarily resource hungry.

~~~
DannyB2
There was an article the other day on HN about Golang compiler and work on its
GC. (Garbage Collection)

As the article goes on, it becomes clear that a modern GC managed system is no
simple thing. As you start to add all the choices and tuning you end up re-
inventing the JVM runtime.

Any program of sufficient complexity eventually ends up having GC.

Java may be too resource hungry for trivial programs. For large programs Java
is an industrial strength runtime platform. Or I should say the JVM is. You
don't have to use the Java language. You can use a number of languages that
compile to JVM bytecode.

------
blinkingled
I guess some more people that Oracle can fine.

