
The Decline of the American Laundromat - romeoEtJoliet
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/07/decline-american-laundromat-gentrification/535257/
======
ehaskins
My parents owned laundromats my whole life, and I was being taken along to
help install and service laundry equipment when I was pretty young.

Aside, being the one to climb down into the bulkheads in a laundromat is a
good inventive to go to college.

I agree the laundry business is changing and probably declining overall, but I
think 2005 is a bad baseline.

In the late '90s some laundry equiptment manufacturers put together
unreasonable financing deals for building or renovating laundromats. If you
see a laundromat from that time that has Maytag or Speed Queen signs out front
it was probably built using one of those packages

The financing was sold with revenue or utility saving estimates that were
completely out of line with reality, and many of those stores ended up
collapsing under the debt and closing within 5-10 years of being built, and so
probably had a peak number of them around 2005.

I saw this first hand having helped build then disassemble more than one store
in Wisconsin and Illinois.

------
brightball
I live in a house with a washer and dryer.

After we had our first child there was a stretch where my wife and I were both
sick for about 2 weeks and the laundry ended up building up significantly. We
had probably 10 loads worth to catch up on and it was going to take all of at
least one day, maybe two.

Threw it all in the car, went to the laundromat and had it done in 2 hours.

Laundromat's are now how I explain "the cloud" to non-technical people.

~~~
fuzzybeard
Does this only make sense for small machines? I bought a gigantic washer/dryer
and have no problem working through a large buildup that results from some
disruption in life.

Borrowing from your analogy, I have large on-prem servers so I don't need the
scalability of the cloud.

~~~
brightball
Just assuming you have a giant washer/dryer at home and it would handle say, 3
of the loads at one time.

10 loads total.

1\. Put 3 loads in washer. Wait for cycle. 7 loads waiting to start.

2\. Move 3 loads to dryer. Put 3 new loads in washer. 4 loads waiting to
start.

3\. Move 3 loads out of dryer and fold, move 3 loads from washer into dryer,
put 3 new loads in washer. 1 load waiting to start.

4\. Move 3 loads out of dryer and fold, move 3 loads from washer into dryer,
put 1 remaining load in washer. 0 loads waiting to start.

5\. Move 3 loads out of dryer and fold, move 1 load from washer to dryer.

6\. Move 1 load out of dryer and fold.

Total run time, 5 cycles.

10 loads at laundromat

1\. Put 10 loads in 10 washers.

2\. Move 10 loads from 10 washers to 10 dryers.

3\. Move 10 loads out of dryers and fold.

Total run time, 2 cycles.

Compounding variables are overfilled dryers that may result in clothes not
getting entirely dry or a very busy laundromat with limited available
capacity. At the laundromat, you begin folding while adding time to any load
that needs it. At the home dryer, the entire line cycle is blocked for the
additional time needed by each blocking dryer.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not advocating for letting laundry build up just
so you can go do it at a laundromat. The convenience of having it in your home
is well worth it - but if for some reason you do have a huge build up it's a
great way to buy back your day / weekend if you want to be able to leave the
house.

~~~
gozur88
>10 loads at laundromat

>1\. Put 10 loads in 10 washers.

>2\. Move 10 loads from 10 washers to 10 dryers.

>3\. Move 10 loads out of dryers and fold.

As if. More like:

1\. Arrive at the laundromat and realize there are only four washers free.

2\. Start three loads because the fourth one doesn't work no matter how many
coins you put in.

3\. Wait for a dryer when the the three loads finish. Because washers are
faster there are already two people waiting for a free dryer. You realize
there's no point in hurrying to do the next three loads, since your first
three are only making the dryer situation worse.

4\. One dryer is finished but nobody is there to unload it. What's the
etiquette at this place - should you take a stranger's load out and put it in
one of the dingy carts? You wonder how big the owner of those clothes is, and
if he's sane.

5\. Eventually you get ten loads of clothes through three washers, read an
entire three year old issue of _Glamour_ magazine upside-down to make it last,
and get all but the last two loads through the dryers before deciding to dry
the last two at home by draping them over your furniture.

Total run time, a little over five hours and ten sanity points.

There's probably another cloud analogy in here somewhere.

------
minikomi
I live in Japan where Laundromats are often attached to Public Baths. I love
going to my local, taking a soak while the load runs, and then coming out and
having a coffee while my clothes go through the drier.

Not much to add.. just felt like professing my love for that Sunday arvo
ritual.

~~~
justinjlynn
That sounds quite nice. I wonder why public baths never really took off in the
States. In the records I can find, they seem to have a less than savoury
perception.

~~~
Veratyr
I don't mean to offend but I suspect it's because people in the USA, at least
in cities, just can't take care of public places.

There's urine in the train stations (either visible or smellable), elevators
shut down by faeces, people shouting, yelling and preaching in the streets,
also, toilets, often even in private restaurants, are disgusting.

I don't mean to say that things are always like this, all the time or in all
cities and I understand that it's a minority of people who cause these
problems but the problems are far from uncommon.

With a place like a public bath in particular, cleanliness is extremely
important and I just can't see it working. It only takes one inconsiderate
person relieving them self in the water to ruin it for everyone and I find it
hard to believe that in a day in an average US city you wouldn't find such a
person. My impression is that it works in Japan because the society is
extremely communal and you're far, far less likely to find such an
inconsiderate person.

I can kind of see it working in smaller US communities where people know and
respect each other though. In small communities, everyone knows each other and
people are much less likely to be inconsiderate towards friends and
acquaintances than they are towards strangers.

~~~
greggman
Agreed but this isn't just a USA thing. Many countries have a culture not
taking care of public places. All of Europe comes to mind. As does China.

~~~
Veratyr
There are other places yes but out of the countries I've visited, the US is
definitely one of the worst. All the Europe I've visited (Paris, Berlin,
Zurich, Istanbul, south-eastern region of Russia) has been about as well kept
as Australia, my home country. Aside from Malaysia, I can't think of a country
that's worse than the US. Even the (disclaimer: nicer, less impoverished)
parts of Mexico I've visited were arguably better maintained.

Another disclaimer: I live in the Bay Area and that's where most (but not all)
of my feelings about US public spaces come from.

~~~
dtech
It might be the large US population of homeless people worsens this
(especially in the bay area), as they have no better option than to leave
their waste in public places.

~~~
fundabulousrIII
Years ago I travelled through norcal without stopping in to SF. Started in
Crescent City, traversed into Oregon, past Shasta region and the farthest
south I achieved was to Santa Rosa. Headed east to Oroville and then back to
Crescent City to catch my prop flight to SF for the flight east.

Wonderful personal trip on the winding mountain roads and experiencing the
abrupt climate|vista changes in an hour+ from pacific coast to desert. Morning
50 degrees, afternoon 80+.

It was my first time in norcal and the thing that shocked me the most (reading
my emails to friends from that time) was the filth, poverty and mental illness
in the towns and cities.

~~~
thrownblown
That's not really California. That's Hela Nor-cal, or the Jefferson State.

~~~
fundabulousrIII
Explain please, I'm an easterner. (edit) I see:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_st...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_\(proposed_Pacific_state\))

------
acabal
I'm happy to say good riddance. When I was young I had to carry the family's
laundry to the laundrymat, wash and fold it there, and carry it back, every
other week at least. It takes hours, and at the time you couldn't do much
while sitting there and waiting (nowadays I suppose you have smartphones and
laptops). The whole thing was just an exhausting, dreaded hassle.

Now I can put laundry in, it's OK if I don't attend to it immediately, and
finally I can hang-dry my laundry at home, which is not just hugely more
climate-friendly but also helps prevent shrinkage. An undeniable win all
around.

If you need a quiet few hours, a walk is just as fulfilling and much less
obligatory :)

~~~
freetime2
I think this article is less about the benefits of laundromats vs. in-unit
washing machines (most people would choose the latter), and more about the
struggles of people who are unable to afford apartments with in-unit hookups
and who now have to walk an extra couple of blocks to do their laundry.

~~~
martinald
I find it really odd the US doesn't have washing machines in apartments.

Even the tiniest studio apartment in the UK would come with one. You very
rarely see laundromats in the UK (usually in areas with a very high
concentration of students, as halls of residence provision can be poor for
them).

Why don't they have them in the US? You have water and electricity, so I can't
understand why this is a big deal.

~~~
Sleeep
Plenty of apartments in the US have washing machines, I've lived in several
apartments and all had a washing machine[1].

As for the reason why many don't - historical (they weren't designed when
household washing machines didn't exist and were never retrofitted), and
slumlords not wanting to manage another appliance.

Add to that nowadays Americans don't do much air drying of their clothes so a
washer without a dryer is much less appealing. As long as you had physical
space adding a washer to an apartment that wasn't designed for one is cheap.
Adding a dryer is very costly - dedicated plug or gas line plus ventilation to
the outside. So if it's not economically worth the dryer upgrade than most
landlords just won't bother with a washer upgrade either.

If your landlord doesn't provide a washer and your apartment doesn't have
washer hookups you could always get a portable washing machine (or jury rig a
regular washer to be 'portable') for any apartment as long as you had
somewhere to store it. I've even hear of someone splitting the water line
under the sink to install a washer in a rental.

Same thing with dishwashers, some apartments have them, some don't.

[1]One apartment I lived in though had all the washing machines and dryers in
the shared basement and they were coin operated and we weren't supposed to use
them after 9.

~~~
arethuza
"Adding a dryer is very costly"

Condenser dryers are pretty easy to install - all you need is an electrical
outlet.

~~~
EADGBE
Very cool that these exists. I had no idea. But I'm just your typical stupid
American.

However, it looks like they're about 3x the cost of a vented dryer.

And smaller capacity than vented ones.

> Ventless dryers also take longer to get your clothes dry. A vented dryer
> might finish a Normal load in about 45-50 minutes, but a condenser or heat
> pump dryer could run for an hour and a half. Want to dry a bulky blanket or
> comforter? You could be waiting more than three hours.

[http://laundry.reviewed.com/features/everything-you-need-
to-...](http://laundry.reviewed.com/features/everything-you-need-to-know-
about-ventless-dryers)

~~~
arethuza
I've never waited 3 hours for our dryer to dry anything - in fact even a heavy
blanket doesn't take more than an hour.

~~~
EADGBE
Do you live in a humid climate? I wonder if that impedes on the dry time at
all (having to dry out the air before drying out the clothes drying in the
air).

~~~
arethuza
Scotland - I wouldn't say "humid" \- just miserably damp. :-|

Maybe it's the 240V mains supply?

~~~
EADGBE
We send 240V to our dryers here, too.

~~~
jessaustin
Yes, but it's a "special" circuit that has to be wired specifically for that
purpose.

~~~
EADGBE
That really shouldn't matter, though. 240V input is 240V input.

~~~
jessaustin
This thread is about placing clothes dryers in living quarters that weren't
built for such equipment. In your own house, out in the countryside, you're
welcome to wire the neutral leg of a normal 120V circuit to the other side of
a double breaker to create a magical 14-gauge 240V clothes dryer circuit.
You'd be well advised to keep a fire extinguisher handy, however. If you try
to sell or rent that space (or if your house is located in an incorporated
town or city), you'll be breaking some of the more reasonable laws we have in
this country.

~~~
fragmede
A licensed electrician can be hired to perform the work to add a 240 volt
circuit in a legal fashion, no need to be alarmist.

That there is little incentive for landlords to spend money maintaining their
property under various rent-control schemes is the real cause for issue.

------
dizzystar
I hope this isn't entirely true. Granted, many laundromats are trashy with
broken machines, but most are well-maintained. There are a few benefits that
mean a lot to me.

I enjoy the old-school video games.

I enjoy the idea that a 2-hour load is not only cut in half, plus a multi-load
wash is done in one hour.

But most of all, it's the last respite that I feel comfortable sitting down
and doing absolutely nothing. It's generally quiet enough that I can just let
my thoughts roam, watch the TV, play video games, or even take a short walk.

Maybe it's nostalgia, or that I never lived in a place with a well-functioning
washer and drier, but for a short bit of do-absolutely nothing moments, I'll
happily take the laundromat over the beach any day.

~~~
webwielder2
I guess people will be nostalgic over just about anything.

~~~
nefitty
I spent a lot of time in laundromats as a kid. My mom owned one at one point
as well. They have a palpable pre-internet feel that is hard to come by these
days, especially while still in civilization.

------
freetime2
From the article:

 _Laundromats’ margins are further thinning as the price of water and sewage
services have risen across the country. Utilities make up by far the heftiest
of Lavanderia’s expenses, costing over $100,000 each year. Add to that the
roughly $30,000 Tillman spends fixing his aging washers and dryers, and the
laundromat is left with about $140,000 of profit each year, a number that
continues to dwindle._

For a small business that pretty much runs itself, $140k / year actually seems
like a pretty good profit to me. So I guess the issue is not so much that the
laundromat business is unprofitable, but rather that compared to the value of
the land it is sitting on, $140k/yr is a pretty terrible ROI.

~~~
ams6110
Solar water heating seems like a no-brainer for a laundromat. Most are in
strip malls or freestanding box-type buildings with a lot of flat open roof
space.

Article also didn't seem to mention cost of emplying attendants. Never seen an
unattended laundromat -- people need help with jammed coins, etc. and to
prevent vandalism.

~~~
danielparks
I don't remember seeing any attended laundromats when I lived in SF in 2013. I
was in the Nob Hill area.

Somebody did come by to close them, and there was generally a number you could
call if a machine ate your quarters.

When I moved to Portland I was impressed by all the apartments with in-
building washers. I quickly realized they were a necessity here since there
are very few laundromats.

------
al2o3cr
One thing I didn't see mentioned in the article or here: a good laundromat
typically has machines you wouldn't want to squeeze into your house. For
instance, the one close to me has washers that accept 70+ pounds of laundry at
once - great for washing blankets & other large items. Having that machine at
home wouldn't make any sense, given that it's really only needed a couple
times a year for an individual person.

~~~
fuzzybeard
The cost difference between a moderately sized washing machine and one that's
a few cubic feet larger isn't that much. Over the lifetime of the machine it
pays off.

And if you have the extra capacity, you'll use it more often than you would if
you had to go to the laundromat for the annual duvet cleaning.

~~~
jessaustin
In many places, water is scarce enough to discourage industrial-sized washing
machines.

------
blahedo
I did the laundromat thing for four years in grad school, then ten years in
various units with in-house washer and dryer, and then back to a laundromat
for the last six years. It was undeniably convenient to be able to wash
something on a moment's notice or at night or whatever, but I have to say I
_really_ like the fact that for a 2-3 hour investment of time every 3-4 weeks,
I can get my laundry _all_ done, at once, because the laundromat lets me work
massively in parallel. And because I'm running it all in parallel, I can sort
the loads differently for wash and dry: for washing, sort by colour, and for
drying, by fabric delicacy (jeans can take high heat, anything with elastic
stays on medium or low, etc etc). My landlord has said it's fine for me to buy
a washer/dryer (there is a hookup in the basement) but I've found I'm really
not in any rush to do so.

~~~
freetime2
We recently purchased a combination washer/dryer unit. We throw the dirty
clothes every night before bed, set the timer (electricity prices here are
lower over night), and the clothes are all washed, dried, and ready to be
folded when we wake up in the morning. The only manual part of the process is
folding/putting clothes away - but those tasks aren't really parallelizable
anyway - so I fail to see how adding in a trip to a laundromat could yield
better efficiencies.

Admittedly we don't really bother to separate anything (everything gets cold
water, dry on low heat) - so you may be getting better results than us. :)

~~~
honestoHeminway
Im still waiting for soft robotics to solve the folding.

------
nfriedly
There's a laundromat in my town, and once a month a local church (the First
Brotheren Church, I think) provides free laundry service for anyone who wants
it. They provide the soap and the quarters and then while your laundry is
getting washed they provide food to eat. It's a really great community
outreach service.

~~~
EADGBE
That's a church I could get behind.

Unfortunately, most good deeds go unnoticed. I hope they're advertising well
to the kind of people who could really use a service like that.

Helped with a pantry service for a church, so often a week would go by that no
one would show up. Infuriating. Food had to be thrown out.

~~~
nfriedly
Its advertised a few places around town. There's only about 1,200 people in my
town, and they've been providing the service for a while, so I'm petty sure
everyone in town knows about it.

------
crooked-v
I do hope all the laundromats don't go away, simply because I need one of the
extra-large washers to be able to wash my comforter every so often.

------
mc32
You know, it's weird, but in other populous cities around the world, it's
unusual to come across a laundromat (aside form hotels). I mean, if you look
hard enough you can find some, but not easy.

I don't recall seeing them in east Asia and in Western Europe you can find
some here and there --but definitely not very prevalent.

Plus, it's more convenient to have a facility in each unit, or failing that,
in each apartment complex. You don't have to lug your stuff blocks away and
have to interact with, at least in the US, odd elements, every so often.

On the other hand I do on occasion appreciate the big-loader units.

~~~
gpvos
In Western Europe they're everywhere, at least in the larger cities. In
Amsterdam I have two within walking distance. In Central/Eastern Europe
(former communist countries) there are fewer to sometimes almost none.

~~~
nradov
Yes I can confirm there are very few Laundromats in Serbia and Croatia. There
are laundry services where you can drop off your clothes to be cleaned, but no
self-service machines.

------
mattdoughty
When I lived in the US, the lack of in-unit washing machines was quite
unexpected. I had to pay $2 to use the shared (between 2 apartments) machine
even though we as tenants paid the electric and water bills.

~~~
EADGBE
Most newer buildings being built (though those are hard to find, sometimes)
always have a hookup available.

In my apartment hunting, I usually found that apartments which lacked a hookup
were also built before it was a norm to have such a thing.

Seeing that American landry is almost entirely vented drying, a dedicated
space of 30 square feet with an outside vent, sewer drain (and vent) and hot
and cold spigot are nearly required. It's easy to see why so few old
apartments have in-unit w/d hookup.

------
jamesblonde
In rental accommodation in Sweden, a communal laundromat is the norm. You
typically have between 2 and 10 machines, and you book your times. We also
have tumble driers and drying closets and even manglers. As a database person,
I batch my laundry just like operations in my transaction. Actually, the
analogy I use when explaining batching is the dishwasher. Imagine picking up 1
plate at a time and putting it in the cupboard.

------
peter303
Plus with most laundermats still cash, many under report revenues for taxes. I
presume thats where the cliche "money laundering" may have come from.

Do any places accept digital pay? Perhaps for a token machine. I notice may of
the two buck car washes now accept electronic money.

~~~
jws
_Do any places accept digital pay?_

I stopped in Klamath Falls, Oregon to do three weeks worth of filthy clothes
while out traveling this summer and found a spectacular new laundromat which
accepted Apple Pay! That's now my first line discriminator when looking for a
laundromat on the road, if you take Apple Pay I'm picking you. That will weed
out the low end mildew, lint, and mold holes that you sometimes find.

------
poulsbohemian
Interestingly enough, a new laundromat just opened in my 30,000 person rural
community.

------
bguillet
It has always surprised me how rare, at least here in the bay, washer/dryer
hookups are. I can't remember renting a place (even my shitty student studio)
without them before.

~~~
c3833174
One accessory that is sometimes sold with washers in europe is a small
U-shaped plastic thing to hang the discharge pipe in the sink, which coupled
with a small tap on the sink water line is enough to allow the usage of a
washer.

------
gwbas1c
When I lived in San Francisco, I paid for a laundry service. Picked up clothes
and dropped them off a few days later.

Much cheaper than paying for an apartment with a washer/dryer!

~~~
EADGBE
Curious, what's the average price for something like that? Do you pay by load
or garment?

~~~
garethsprice
Not sure about SF but NYC is teeming with laundries that'll pick up, clean,
fold and drop-off for about $1 per pound with a $10 minimum. I drop off at my
regular place (it's half a block, on the way to work) but friends use services
that pick up and drop off within 30-45 minutes.

With the cost of soap and quarters for the machines etc it's almost cheaper
than doing the loads yourself, definitely cheaper if you factor in the value
of your time sitting around for 2 hours doing laundry.

There's a few "Uber for laundry" type startups that slap an app interface on
top and charge 2-3x the price, but the old school laundries are efficient and
cheap - they have your number on file so you just call and say "Pick up
please" and they come. Very efficient marketplace.

You don't have a washer/dryer in your apartment in NYC unless you're a
millionaire (somewhat facetious - but it's definitely a rarity due to old
buildings/plumbing - many leases specifically forbid installing your own too).

Dry cleaning is per garment, though.

~~~
EADGBE
I've never used it (T-Shirt and Jeans programmer; oh so hip!), but there's an
overnight delivery service for dry cleaning to my kids' daycare. Also thought
that was pretty smart.

------
searine
Living in NYC opened my eyes to how awesome laundromats can be. All your
laundry done at the corner store, coming back neat and folded for a dollar a
pound.

Calgon, take me away.

------
dsfyu404ed
Slapping a pair of $1-$3/load machines in the basement of a 8-unit building is
easy money for landlords and they get to say that there's "laundry in
building" and tack a couple hundred bucks onto the rend even if there's no
practical way for all those people to make use of it.

------
roel_v
It's weird you'd get planning permission for building residential buildings
with units that don't have washer/dryer hookups in (some places in) the US.
(At least my take away from TFA was that there are still new buildings being
build like that)

------
costcopizza
I dunno, laundromats seem to be doing a-ok in the Los Angeles region. Even in
nicer neighborhoods you can find one pretty dang quickly.

I use one and I enjoy it oddly enough-- its quick but just enough time to get
some reading done or people watching.

------
gpvos
I really don't see why more laundromats haven't added cafés and internet/wifi,
or even small eateries. Or conversely, some cafés haven't added small
laundromats.

~~~
Severian
I work a single day at a laundromat/bar combination to supplement my income
and actually be on my feet for a day. Most people are amazed it isn't more
popular when they discover it. Having a cold draft while waiting for your wash
or folding your clothes can be quite nice. We even have regulars who just
drink.

We are near a university, so I think this works out better than say a rural or
low-income area. We have a large homeless population around here who use the
establishment, and can be a bit bothersome in some of their behavior when
visiting (such as whore bath in the bathroom).

We have free WiFi as well.

------
borski
TIL there is a Coin Laundry Association, and that they have a biannual
conference in Las Vegas.

~~~
icebraining
George Carlin joked that every group that made it in America had its own
magazine to show for it. I suspect industry conferences are the business
version of that :)

~~~
iamatworknow
Gophercon was a few weeks ago in Denver. At the same time the "National
Cattlemen's Beef Association" was also holding a conference at the convention
center. My coworkers and I joked that we should ask them to make us burgers.

