
France Bans Smartphones in Schools Through 9th Grade. Will It Help Students? - tzury
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/20/world/europe/france-smartphones-schools.html
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bambax
This seem to fascinate the US as there are many more articles about it in
American press than French press. In France it seems everybody finds this
completely normal.

I'm not sure teachers who " _question the merits of insulating children from
the internet-dominated world they will face outside school_ " actually
exist... I have yet to meet one.

~~~
beefheart
In the US, the idea that the federal government could issue such a ban would
be preposterous. It's a matter of principle. The state shouldn't be regulating
these kinds of things, it only makes a mockery of itself.

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yodsanklai
> The state shouldn't be regulating these kinds of things, it only makes a
> mockery of itself.

so who should be regulating what happens in public schools?

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Insanity
Banning them from use at any time would not be a great thing in my opinion,
but banning them in class is quite normal.

We were never allowed our "dumbphones" in class either though, which made us
try to 'sneakily' text. I think students will try this with their smartphones
as well.

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piokoch
Smartphones at school are really, really bad idea and they should be banned,
here are the reasons (real stuff I saw with my own eyes):

\- Kids play games during the break and that really affects their ability to
concentrate during the lesson - they think about how to "move to the next
level" or "kill the enemy", not on the lesson subject \- Kids don't interact
normally, they sit separately looking at their phones - funnily some teachers
actually loved that aspect - kids were silent, not running, no shouting during
the breaks. I believe that direct human-to-human contact is valuable and can't
be replaced with chatting on some app or sharing pictures. \- School has no
control over the content kids view on their smartphones, so if one kid views
porn and shows it to others, the school can be on fire as exposing kids to
porn is a crime (at least in some countries) and school stuff is responsible
for what is happening at school. \- Various "minor" nasty behaviors, for
instance kids whose parents can't afford smartphone have to pay those who has
smartphones to play games (one can say that it is nothing bad, but I don't
like that).

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d33
Is this your intuition or do you have studies to back this up and also show
that disadvantages outweigh the advantages?

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godDLL
France is doing your study right now. And you have control in the U. S.

Give it some four years or so.

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screye
Love it.

There are 2 things apart from the studies themselves, that schools play a
vital part in. One is learning to focus on one thing without distractions for
hours at a stretch. The other is learning to socialize.

Phones inhibit the development of both aspects of young children.

~~~
godDLL
Those are the two things _I wish_ that schools played any part in whatsoever.

From my time at school, the two things they actually succeed at is killing
your desire to learn and know (by way of many things), and instilling distrust
of and disgust for your peers (again, many ways of doing this).

Oh, and they keep you there. So you're not out somewhere, actually interacting
with the world and the people in it.

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r3vrse
No. This won't fix anything. It is flying in the face of social norms and
basic, narcissistic inclination. What is verboten will become desirable, and
circumvention will be lauded by peers.

We live in a digital world. That isn't going away and will only become more
pervasive.

Teach responsible usage. Make it like BYOB in enterprise. Require device
enrollment. Block access to unproductive sites within a campus environment.
Channel the compulsion to check/update/respond into something positive.

This is basic human psychology. We can't afford to be so blindly granular and
willfully devoid of historical context and the obvious implications.

~~~
baud147258
> What is verboten will become desirable

It is already verboten, but now it's applied at a national level, instead of
each school adding to their rules.

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kjullien
Am french, and can tell you that the only reason I managed to get up to the
baccalaureate was an iPod Touch I had on me at every, single, exam I ever took
since I was about 10. I managed to pass the baccalaureate entirely because of
a TI Nspire on which I preloaded every single possible program I could need
ever for the exams, maths, biology, physics and chemistry. Formulas, step by
step solving and all the jazz. They banned in the year after I passed.

The reason is simple. I have never been able to memorize anything or learn
anything "by heart" in my entire life. I recently discovered that this is
because I am dyslexic. The problem with that is that I spent my entire life in
the french education system being treated as if I was lazy, dumb and whatnot.
The amount of stress I endured and the amount of meetings I had with profs and
principals all over my "motivation" and why my work level is "never constant".
I'm actually so mad over this if I saw some of these people in the street I
would probably punch them in the face and run away.

I keep saying this over and over again, but in a world where knowledge is at
the tip of your fingers, why in the name of f#ck do we still actually need to
learn anything. Knowledge is not sufficient itself, you need practice, and not
simply "do exercises and you'll get it". I'm talking about real world
applications, something that is completely inexistent in the current system.
We don't go to school to learn what we want to do later in life, we go to
school to go to school, much like in America you go to prison because the
prison wants its money per head.

So maybe before they crack down on "cheating" and whatnot, maybe they should
take a long look at themselves. The devices they fight so hard to ban are (for
me) actually the way of the future in terms of education, even if the kids
using it don't have the maturity to know they should not be playing Candy
Crush, it's not as if the current system mattered in any way for their future
anyways, except if they were born to fit in it.

I recommend an article that was posted recently "College is Dying, Design Your
Own Education.". It resonated so hard with me and every single flaw it points
out is present in the french education system.

~~~
baud147258
Dunno about you, but my brother with dyslexia managed to get his bac (STI
path) without cheating; he then went to an engineering school. So dyslexia
does not always prevent you to be successful in school.

> why in the name of f#ck do we still actually need to learn anything

Because if we don't, we'll never know that particular knowledge even exists.
And it is easier to understand that knowledge while in school, than reading
pages on internet after saying 'Let's Google it'.

Also regarding how high school does not cover any practical knowledge, it's
true that general bac does cover few real-world application. But it covers the
necessary information to follow higher studies. Without any maths or physics,
no student would be able to study enginneering; without any biology, med
school would waste a lot of time. And if you want skills directly applicable
after getting your bac, that's what the technical bac are for.

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Theodores
The consequences of getting caught are quite low, having no use of your phone
for a day is not a big deal. You could even hide this loss of phone from your
parents.

In the UK there was a little debate about kids and phones after a well known
TV presenter tweeted about smashing her kids iPads to pieces as they were
addicted to Fortnite. This was not universally deemed to be considered good
parenting.

In defending her remarks the presenter said that if she caught kids smoking
then the cigarettes would be destroyed, so why not destroy the iPads as they
are equally addictive? Not everyone bought this, particularly those in a lower
income bracket (and those not liking electronic waste).

For the teenage me I think that losing the use of a phone for the day would be
a risk worth taking, it would be one of those things where you do it but don't
get caught (unless you are stupid). The penalty would have to be harsher, e.g.
losing the thing for the rest of term or the 'nuclear' option favoured by the
aforementioned TV presenter, maybe with a 'three strikes' warning.

I found the article funny in that it is sort of necessary for American kids to
have a phone just in case there is a crazy gunman at school. In the rest of
the world we can actually provide security for our children when they are at
school, it is de-facto as adults don't walk around with guns all day.

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holografix
Congratulations to the French government, very interested to see a follow up
research on what benefits/detriments it brought the students.

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yAnonymous
Good. Kids have enough time to use their phones during the rest of the day.

Students' performances -at least here- have been steadily declining, despite
simplifying the teaching material. There's an astounding amount of young
people who can't use their native language properly and fail at simple math. I
refuse to believe that the distraction from smartphones and social media has
nothing to do with that.

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m_mueller
With these new GSM smartwatches, wouldn’t it make sense to give a kid a watch
rather than a phone? He can initiate and receive calls from there (I’d switch
off GPS tracking) but the display is too small to do much else I’m thinking.
Sure, there’s a bunch of distracting apps installed, but so did we have on the
old Casio calculator watches and that wore off quickly. Has anyone tried this
here?

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frou_dh
Where there's a will there's a way.

For a time when I did not have a home internet connection, I was browsing the
web on an ancient eInk non-touchscreen Kindle. This was using its absolutely
dire 'experimental' browser and the free 3G it had to communicate with Amazon.

Embryonic browsing is already here on Apple Watch:
[https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/browse-the-internet-
watchos...](https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/browse-the-internet-watchos-5/)

~~~
danielbln
And thinking back of my school years, there is absolutely a will. Hard
constraints just make it all the more juicy.

~~~
m_mueller
Yes, and I have absolutely nothing against my son pushing against constraints
with creativity. I just don't want him to serve the snapchats (or whatever
kids are using these days) on a silver platter, no understanding of technology
required.

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RickJWagner
As a parent of kids in school, yes this is a good idea.

Teachers are constantly battling for attention with cell phones. Students are
forever scrolling, sending texts, taking selfies, etc. It's a big part of the
daily activities.

It'll allow the students to focus on other, more important things.

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paulie_a
When I was in high school, if you used a cellphone in class it was confiscated
for the rest of the semester. They had a box they would put it in. It was a
pretty effective policy.

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xellisx
Back when I was in school, pagers, cell phones and laptops where prohibited.
Also we didnt have off campus lunch either.

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ashkar
It should be enforced as an international law. (not just in France) > French
government believes that without minimizing distractions, children will never
learn the basics.

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jimjimjim
yay. great idea.

I can't think of a single problem with this that can't be overcome by common
sense.

(i'm not even being sarcastic. it's good.)

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crispytx
I don't know if it will help the kids, but it will definitely help the
teachers.

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adamnemecek
Restricting liberties of fundamentally disenfranchised people seems fucked up.

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docdeek
Liberties for kids in school are already pretty restricted. They have to
attend classes whether they like them or not, they usually have to follow a
dress code whether it suits their personal style or not, a lot of French
schools (including the one my son attends) make it difficult for you to bring
your own lunch from home so you either go home for lunch every day or are
forced to eat in the cafeteria, with limited choices on offer...when it comes
to restricting liberties, this is one of many and it seems to me pretty low on
the totem pole of essential liberties.

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ElBarto
I fail to understand why a national law was necessary.

Let schools set and enforce their own policies.

It seems to me that the main result of having an actual legal ban is that
teachers are now prevented from using smartphones in class for teaching
purpose if they wanted to.

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baud147258
> I fail to understand why a national law was necessary.

If I understand right, the law was necessary to allow school to enforce such a
rule.

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remify
No they could already.

It's more an attempt to stop nitpicking and move on with the question.

