
Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers - Mz
http://abcnews.go.com/US/thousands-low-income-americans-donate-blood-plasma-profit/story?id=44710257
======
Houshalter
This reminds me of "The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics":
[http://web.archive.org/web/20160806191858/https://blog.jaibo...](http://web.archive.org/web/20160806191858/https://blog.jaibot.com/the-
copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/)

Our culture has a very strange belief that you shouldn't benefit from the less
fortunate. Even if you benefit them too. People that have never donated a
dollar to charity in their lives, will come out of the woodwork and complain
about "exploitation".

~~~
kome
"People that have never donated a dollar to charity in their lives" is a
particularly American, or let's say anglophone, way to approach social
justice.

Charities are based on good will, but "the less fortunate" do not need "good
will": they need social rights.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_rights)

If you don't see "exploitation" when people need and they are willing to sell
their blood, I have no idea what you mean by exploitation.

~~~
darawk
What's wrong with selling your blood? To me it seems like selling your time is
a far more personal, unrecoverable injustice. And most people just call that
'work'.

If you want to make it out like these people are being 'exploited', then you
can make the case just the same that all property is exploitation. Railing
against poor people donating blood plasma, or organs for that matter, is
profoundly misguided.

~~~
amorphid
Not an expert on the subject, but I recall hearing somewhere that selling
blood gives people an incentive to lie about their health history.

"Do you shoot up illicit drugs with shared needles?"

"Um... No. No I do not."

~~~
darawk
True, but that is the system being exploited by those individuals, not the
other way around.

~~~
amorphid
I don't want a tainted blood transfusion, so it does affect me.

~~~
darawk
Right, it effects everyone _except_ the person who donates. The thing i'm
arguing against is the idea that the donors are being exploited.

~~~
amorphid
Thanks for clarifying.

------
ErikVandeWater
Although somewhat grotesque to many on the face of it, this seems like
fundamentally a good thing. Poor people get money they need, and people with
severe injuries get their lives saved.

I find it unusual there always seems to be an aversion to companies making
money on healthcare (the emphasis on for-profit). This is weird, because no
one would suggest companies should only be allowed to make money on irrelevant
or trivial things; shouldn't companies that save lives make _more_ money than
companies that just make entertainment, or manufacturing equipment?

~~~
DanBC
People desperate for money, who may not have blood suitable for donating, are
incentivised to lie.

Meanwhile, men can't donate if they've had sexual contact with men in the past
12 months. [http://www.redcrossblood.org/donating-blood/eligibility-
requ...](http://www.redcrossblood.org/donating-blood/eligibility-
requirements/eligibility-criteria-topic)

~~~
zaroth
And if the alternative (not offering any payment) is simply not having enough
plasma to manufacture the life saving treatments?

It's almost as if people who are donating this frequently should be properly
screened and truly compensated for the value they are providing...

~~~
awqrre
Around here they don't pay for blood, they give you things like movie tickets
or restaurant gift cards... sure the recipients could sell them for cash but
it's not as easy.

------
njharman
Is this really news, not known? I did it and so did most people I knew back in
college (the ones who didn't were too heavy drug users). It was one of many
sources for "minor money". Which when you have NO money, is pretty great.

It's one of a host of shitty things we force poor people to do cause as a
society we have this stupid fucking idea that you have to work for everything,
that you don't deserve the necessities of existence unless you spend 40+ hours
making someone else rich.

~~~
QuercusMax
I sold my plasma for a semester or so in college for gas money, before I got a
"real job" on campus. I was making around $60-75/wk, which wasn't bad at all.
The people there were all either college students or super sketchy people; it
was right next to university campus.

I didn't (and still don't) feel like I was taken advantage of at all; it was
better than flipping burgers.

------
DoodleBuggy
Meanwhile, low-income Indians sell their kidneys

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eny6D-7f_rc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eny6D-7f_rc)

The Red Market is an interesting/disturbing book on the organ trade, here's an
NPR interview with the author

[http://www.npr.org/2011/06/10/136931615/blood-bones-and-
orga...](http://www.npr.org/2011/06/10/136931615/blood-bones-and-organs-the-
gruesome-red-market)

------
peacetreefrog
Pretty basic economics. Quantity supplied generally == quantity demanded, as
long as there's a functioning price system. It's why you can go to a gas
station and (while the price certainly changes) count on them never being out
of gas, despite whatever else is going on in terms of weather, OPEC or
whatever.

Paying people for plasma donation means there's plasma available for patients
who need it. And it's not like these doners are coerced. Removing their option
to do that (by outlawing paid donations) by definition can only make them
worse off.

~~~
peacetreefrog
It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while
for plasma it's > $0. Know nothing about blood or plasma, but I'd imagine this
is because donating plasma takes longer and is more painful. Wouldn't be
surprised if it was trickier to store/transport/use or if you generally got
less plasma fluid out of a person vs blood, or people could donate less often
or something.

Also note while the monetary price for blood is $0, that's probably not the
full price -- just ask anyone who has reluctantly donated blood because they
didn't want to be the only person in their school or office not donating
during a blood drive. There's often a social cost to NOT donating too.

Also, even with these differences/caveats the lack of a price system for blood
does lead to some mismatches between supply and demand. There's currently a
big blood shortage as we speak (google it), leading some hospitals to cancel
elective surgery.

~~~
driverdan
> It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while
> for plasma it's > $0.

It's not. In the US compensation for donating blood is illegal but not plasma.
Most charities that take blood donations sell it.

~~~
kgwgk
> In the US compensation for donating blood is illegal

Not really: [https://www.statnews.com/2016/01/22/paid-plasma-not-
blood/](https://www.statnews.com/2016/01/22/paid-plasma-not-blood/)

------
ensiferum
Two other interesting news stories right next to this one

[http://abcnews.go.com/US/bus-drivers-working-alongside-
silic...](http://abcnews.go.com/US/bus-drivers-working-alongside-silicon-
valley-millionaires-struggle/story?id=44707434)

[http://abcnews.go.com/US/working-fast-food-jobs-16-hours-
day...](http://abcnews.go.com/US/working-fast-food-jobs-16-hours-
day/story?id=44707695)

Is this the "american dream" ?

~~~
gens
Wouldn't be a dream if it as real, now wouldn't it ?

~~~
ensiferum
touche

------
jrs235
So it seems there is a lot of confusion here in the comments. [Blood] Plasma
donation is not the same as blood donation.

[https://www.statnews.com/2016/01/22/paid-plasma-not-
blood/](https://www.statnews.com/2016/01/22/paid-plasma-not-blood/)

------
RUG3Y
I've donated plasma when I was really broke...only a couple of months ago. I
would do it again except the phlebotomist perforated the vein in my left arm 6
or 7 times, digging around for what felt like an eternity. I'm a glutton for
punishment but that definitely wasn't worth 40 bucks. I needed money for car
parts though.

The really interesting thing about the plasma center is all the oddball
characters you get to see. It's worth a visit just to experience the weird
vibe.

------
daviross
This was something I did twice a week myself, to help get through college. It
worked well for being a way to get additional money in a way which worked with
the rest of my schedule, though having income directly tied to health wasn't
always great. (Have a minor cold? Now be knocked out of a week or two's
deposits)

------
sandworm101
The rules against paying donors in many countries can cause problems. Some
people with very rare bloodtypes are in high demand. When someone needs that
rare blood we could at least cover the traveling expenses needed to bring in
the willing donor. But that just isnt allowed.

~~~
k__
I habe 0+ which isn't rare but still in high dem and.

~~~
sandworm101
I also have o+ but recentlu found out i will never be allowed to donate in
canada because i lived in the middle east off and on as a kid (80s and 90s).
The saudis imported beef from the uk. So i have been exposed to mad cow
disease. 25 years later and i am symptom free. Lol.

This rule bans so many soldiers, expats and immigrants that i am forced to
conclude canada blood services has more than enough blood. The saudis happily
took my blood at 15yo. They paid me for it.

------
adentranter
Aussie here. This is an interesting contrast to what the state of blood
donation and healthcare here is. I have never seen a for profit blood bank
here. It's mainly one non for profit that takes blood donations.

I have often tried to donate blood but been turned away due to my height vs
weight ratio ( im skinny and tall ). I think the desire to donate blood for
nothing may come from the fact that we receive pretty much free healthcare (
you can pay for health insurance and get access to better doctors and shorter
waiting lists ).

I've read many things on HN about healthcare in the pass and it always amazes
me how much I take my countries health system for granted.

I have put on 10 kgs (22 lbs) since I last tried so maybe I will try again
sometime.

~~~
chimeracoder
> I think the desire to donate blood for nothing may come from the fact that
> we receive pretty much free healthcare ( you can pay for health insurance
> and get access to better doctors and shorter waiting lists ).

Whole blood donations are (almost always) uncompensated in the US as well.
This article is referring to plasma donations, which are different and take
longer.

------
kgwgk
And thousands of men 'donate' sperm to for-profit centers. Which, truth be
said, seems a convenient way to perpetuate your genes without all the hassle
of the traditional mechanism. As long as your genes are 'desirable', of
course.

------
than
Radiolab had a fascinating segment on US blood banks and how cutthroat the
blood economy can be. In many cases, your local blood bank might be
arbitraging blood from different areas of the country.

[http://www.radiolab.org/story/308780-blood-
banks/](http://www.radiolab.org/story/308780-blood-banks/)

------
WalterBright
I donate blood now and then, and am an organ donor. I suppose technically I'm
being exploited, but I don't mind.

------
WhitneyLand
So how come you can't "donate" a kidney and be paid for your time on the
operating table?

~~~
chimeracoder
> So how come you can't "donate" a kidney and be paid for your time on the
> operating table?

Because one is explicitly illegal and the other is not.

If you're asking for a justification behind that difference, the answer is
that the laws are simply not consistent. Donating eggs, for example, can be
compensated, and that's a relatively invasive procedure.

------
fapjacks
Hah there was a time, long ago, when I used to feed myself with money from
blood and plasma donation.

------
dbg31415
I donate every 2 months. I also encourage everyone who can to donate as
frequently as they can. It's an easy way for anyone to play it forward.

* American Red Cross || [http://www.redcrossblood.org/give/drive/driveSearch.jsp](http://www.redcrossblood.org/give/drive/driveSearch.jsp)

I had a family member in a near-fatal car accident a little over 12 years ago.
It took a lot of blood to keep her alive, and I'm thankful for everyone who
donated and made saving her life possible.

That said, donating blood takes time and effort, and some recovery time where
you don't feel 100% for a day or so after -- so I have no problem with
incentivized / compensated altruism.

~~~
cylinder
This is not about donating blood to the Red Cross, this is about the plasma
donation industry, which is only for-profit in the US and supplies much of the
world. Only a few companies operate in this space, I've studied it closely.
Baxalta runs a big chain, BioLife, as does CSL.

If we accept that selling organs is prohibited and unethical then we should
also accept the same for selling plasma.

~~~
rtkwe
Except there's a huge difference between organs and blood plasma. Plasma
donation is basically risk free, it regenerates, and has no long term health
effects pretty much the exact opposite of any organ donation which are really
risky and invasive and also leave the donor vulnerable to long term health
risks. Equating them is pretty ridiculous.

~~~
dbg31415
And there are arguably other benefits to donating blood; at minimum you're
getting a little checkup every time you donate. Donating regularly will help
you better monitor your resting pulse, blood pressure, cholesterol levels...

