

Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy - frisco
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/24/business/AP-EU-Italy-GoogleTrial.html

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jacquesm
The real idiocy in this ruling is that the judge stated in their closing
remarks that google did not ask all parties for their consent. I'm not sure if
the judge realizes that for google to know which people are visible in a video
at the time of posting they'd have to have face recognition capabilities
coupled with databases of private information that would amount to a privacy
violation well in excess of the one they're being accused of now (and which,
as far as I know are not currently technically feasible).

Simple safe harbor provisions for ISPs and user generated content sites are
there for a reason, the students were punished and expelled from their school,
as far as I can see the system works and this ruling is both wrong and
superfluous.

There is a lot of pressure on Google in Italy, Mediaset (owned by Italian PM
Silvio Berlusconi) has sued google and youtube for insane amounts of money.

In Italy it can be quite hard to distinguish between what is a private agenda
and what is a quest for justice.

In this case 'the jury is out', but I'm suspicious of trumped up lawsuits that
are followed within weeks by other lawsuits demanding damages in the hundreds
of millions, especially if those lawsuits are brought on behalf of a media
company owned by a senior government figure.

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antirez
This is a political matter.

In every European nation, and even in the USA, if you make N televisions
channels telling the same story about the poor boy victim of youtube you get
more or less the same effect I bet.

The problem here is that all this is Berlusconi-driven. Guess what happens if
everybody switch to youtube and internet instead to see what his ridiculous
televisions are pushing? Loss of business.

The TV here is full of similar stuff about Facebook, for instance. They are
doing an immense government-driven attempt to stop people using internet.
Fortunately it's too late for them.

To make a parallel with USA, remember when enough communication convinced most
americans that Iraq had mass destruction weapons? 90% of people don't think
with their own heads. If the government and media are evil it's very hard to
stop it.

This is not to defend Italy (I'm Italian btw). If we are under the this kind
of control is our fault, but this youtube stuff is only the result, not the
symptom IMHO.

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volomike
Tsk. Why do web companies even worry about a problem like this? If it were me,
I'd simply redirect all Italian web traffic from my site and onto a black page
with a short explanation of the problem. And I'd make the switch at 1am. If my
company were as popular as Google is, within a few short minutes there would
be massive outrage such that politicians, journalists, judges, and police
officers would be awoken from sleep. There would be huge protests in the
streets the next morning or a day later. Governments would never make a screw-
up that severe ever again.

In fact, in light of how this case was handled in Italy, if I were Google, I'd
be doing that very thing right now until Italy changes their laws to make it
crystal clear that Google should not be held accountable.

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jacquesm
Collective punishment went out of fashion a long time ago, and besides, that's
_exactly_ what would play in to the hands of Berlusconi et al.

Google simply will appeal this and hopefully the appeal judge will be more
sensible, if they're not the time for drastic measures may come but the fall
out from that will be wildly unpredictable and it will hurt a lot of people
that have nothing to do with this.

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DrJokepu
Actually, collective punishment is anything but out of fashion. Trade
embargoes, for example, punish the whole population of countries instead of
just the responsible people in the government.

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jacquesm
I wished you were wrong about that :(

But in the case of a company duking it out with a government over the heads of
the users 'out of fashion' was meant to be read as counter productive.

Trade embargoes are only a step removed from a blockage, which is considered
an act of war.

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neilk
I don't agree that such actions are too aggressive. In the era of South
African apartheid, Western disinvestment campaigns played a role in
eliminating the system, and they were supported by Mandela and the ANC.

Even individual organizations can have an impact. Mandela believes that the
University of California's disinvestment of 3 billion dollars was particularly
helpful.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa>

Not that things are that dire in Italy, but I think it's quite reasonable for
Google to take public actions suspending the hosting or distribution of
content in Italy. It's exactly what the court asked them to do -- stop
distributing content unless they can ensure they have the permission of
everyone involved.

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jacquesm
If I look at Cuba I don't think much good came of it.

Such tools are best used with lots of caution.

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neilk
That's a fair point. Sanctions seem to be relatively useless against despotism
(North Korea, Cuba, Iraq).

However, South Africa was an advanced democratic capitalist state, and its
stability depended on links with the Western capitalist system. Italy is
probably even more vulnerable to such pressure.

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davidw
What's really amazing is reading the comments here (in Italian):

[http://vitadigitale.corriere.it/2010/02/processo_vivi_down_g...](http://vitadigitale.corriere.it/2010/02/processo_vivi_down_google_cond.html)

Most of them are aghast at the decision, but there is a reasonable number
supporting the decision. Italy FAIL :-/

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oscardelben
I read those comments, and I would say they are all from people who don't even
know what the web is, because if you know what the web is, you can't even
think that this is reasonable. Don't forget that here in italy there are a lot
of people who have no idea what the internet is and how it works.

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lukev
Obviously they have _some_ idea what the web is if they're posting comments on
a website ;)

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btilly
The comments at
[http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_yo...](http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_your_one_true_login.php)
suggest otherwise.

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dylanz
Between this and the Banned Books article on the homepage, I am "so" glad
Google takes the stance it does on these issues. I can only hope it continues
this way. Thank you Google.

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drtse4
Can you imagine the burden of opening a site a la facebook in a place like
that? This is not a new approach, and that's the reason why you will never see
a site like myspace/facebook/netlog/whatever... based in a privacy (with a
distorted view of privacy) obsessed place like italy. Just sad.

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DeusExMachina
I'm Italian and I can tell you that things here are even worse. This is why I
based my startup in London and now I'm relocating to another country.

To add something more to this piece of news: Google, with YouTube, is
disturbing our televisions, owned or controlled by our prime minister
Berlusconi, by competing with them and spreading news that are hidden or
distorted in TV. This will not be the last attack Google faces from Italy.

News Corp. knows this very well. In the last year this government passed some
laws clearly against their satellite offer, favouring the TV channels of our
prime minister. Now it's the turn of Google.

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jacquesm
> To add something more to this piece of news: Google, with YouTube, is
> disturbing our televisions, owned or controlled by our prime minister
> Berlusconi, by competing with them and spreading news that are hidden or
> distorted in TV. This will not be the last attack Google faces from Italy.

That's my take on it as well, I think these 'privacy concerns' are just a
cheap way to use a disabled person to garner sympathy for the crusade against
big bad google that is offering Italian consumers alternative video content
that does not come from 'Papi'.

Berlusconi ought to be the one in the docket. But then he'll just pass another
law that exempts him...

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DeusExMachina
> I think these 'privacy concerns' are just a cheap way to use a disabled
> person to garner sympathy for the crusade against big bad google that is
> offering Italian consumers alternative video content that does not come from
> 'Papi'.

Exactly. The main concerns of the government right now about internet are
YouTube and Facebook, because they are the main channels on which news spread.

Mediaset, the Berlusconi Company owning all his televisions also sued Google
for copyright of content published on YouTube. Every television in the world
is working with Google to remove this content or to profit from it. Berlusconi
is the only one who attacks it to take it down.

This week there has also been a similar case on Facebook, for a stupid group
on down children. The government is trying every now and then to find excuses
to pass laws against internet freedom.

> Berlusconi ought to be the one in the docket. But then he'll just pass
> another law that exempts him...

The saddest thing about this is that it is true. He already passed 19 laws
just to avoid jail, and he is about to pass another two...

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by
This is a informative article about the case

[http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/02/three_googl...](http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/02/three_google_employees_convict.html)

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spot
Here's the more complete article from the NYTimes:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/technology/companies/25goo...](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/technology/companies/25google.html)

