
Complete Guide to Buying Lumber (2015) - devy
https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/primer-on-lumber/
======
id_ris
None of these points address the hardest parts of buying lumber for a
beginner. The hardest parts are in no particular order

* knowing the maximum dimensions you can fit into your vehicle. Are you sure it'll fit in through the door or hatch and you'll be able to close it?

* knowing what cuts you can make at home, and which ones you need to have done at the lumber yard / big box retailer.

* if you need cuts done at the store, does that store offer that service? For example the Menards I shop at has an amazing selection of wood, but they won't cut any of it for me. The Lowe's has a smaller selection, but they do cuts for free.

* if you're having cuts at the store, make sure the saw is working before doing the hard work of choosing your lumber. Too many times to count I've spent 30 minutes getting all the pieces loaded on the cart and then noticed the "Out of Order" sign and had to leave empty handed.

* are you strong enough to lift the piece? Plywood comes in 4 foot by 8 foot sheets, and they can be heavy and awkward to move. A store employee can help you, but at some point you're on your own and will need to do it yourself, have some help, or fashion some tools to assist you.

* For cuts at the store, do you know what dimensions to tell the employee to cut at? Store cuts should be considered rough cuts than you true up later on. Make sure you account for this when dictating the cuts.

* Lastly, just assume you'll make mistakes early on. Luckily construction lumber in the US is pretty cheap, so you can afford a few lessons.

~~~
war1025
Having just rebuilt a deck and installed 200sqft of wood flooring, I'd like to
add that if you are just dabbling in around the house projects, you can get
much further than you might expect with a hand saw. I have a circular saw, but
it both scares the piss out of me and is hard to keep on the line.

A hand saw theoretically takes longer, but I also don't have to worry about my
kids getting hold of it and killing themselves. If I was cutting plywood to
size, I'd probably still get out the circular saw, but for basically
everything else the handsaw is my tool of choice.

~~~
eric4smith
One of my favorite You-tubers Andrew Camarata told the story of how he got a
chainsaw at 10 years old. He hid it from his dad for months and used it. Then
when his dad saw it he allowed him to use it on the provisio that he "be
careful".

The trouble with the world today is that we're no longer allowing our kids to
do anything useful for fear that they "injure" themselves.

So everyone grow up not really knowing even how to hammer a nail. I sympathize
with your feeling having a kid myself, but without exposing them to even some
slight danger, they will not grow up learning how to navigate the dangers in
the world.

~~~
germinalphrase
Sawstop saws are pretty cool [0]. I’ve been in the woodshop of a nearby high
school that has two of their table saws installed. On the wall are attached
three wrecked blades from a student setting off the safety mechanism. Each one
could have been some kid’s finger or hand.

I’m sympathetic to your argument - but power tools aren’t ‘slight’ danger.

[0][https://www.sawstop.com/](https://www.sawstop.com/)

~~~
eric4smith
They are not a problem if a parent teaches young kids how to use them
properly. I'm not for just throwing power tools at kids.

The point i'm making is that in high school we had wood and metal shop.
Welding. Electrical. NONE of those classes exist anymore. And with helicopter
parenting kids aren't learning them either.

~~~
troydavis
> They are not a problem if a parent teaches young kids how to use them
> properly.

The statistics don’t bear out that training or experience eliminates risk of
serious injury. It’s even trivially disprovable with anecdotes - tons of
experienced woodworkers have had blade touches and/or kickback-induced blade
touches. Here’s 3:

[https://www.woodworkingfunhour.com/blog/2020/1/16/015-matts-...](https://www.woodworkingfunhour.com/blog/2020/1/16/015-matts-
table-saw-accident)

[https://twitter.com/JimmyDiResta/status/318214766818635776](https://twitter.com/JimmyDiResta/status/318214766818635776)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fifjjacjLBE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fifjjacjLBE)

If anyone is learning advanced shop safety, a few years ago I made the
advanced survey that I wished existed:
[http://sawsafely.org/](http://sawsafely.org/) .
[http://sawsafely.org/#injury-
research-&-statistics](http://sawsafely.org/#injury-research-&-statistics) has
table saw injury stats. In an era of flesh-detecting table saws, using a table
saw without it (other than weird special-purpose saws) means underestimating
either the probability or the consequences.

~~~
Fjolsvith
My father's trade was journeyman carpenter. His hands are so mangled and
scarred from saws and air nailers. He has been doing it so long that he
doesn't pay attention.

For myself, every time I pick up a saw, I imagine cutting my finger off and it
makes me take care.

When I aim the air nailer, I make sure my hands are further away than the nail
length. I've had nails deflect on unseen defects inside the wood and poke out
the other side where I didn't expect.

------
jccooper
The explanation of dimensional sizing isn't quite correct. The lumber is
indeed cut at the mill to its nominal size (like 2x4), but it's rough from the
saw. (They use big, fast saws that tear up the wood.) Rough-sawn used to be
sold, and you'll sometimes see nominal-size lumber in old houses. You may even
be able to find it at some lumber yards, but it's rare.

To neaten up the board, the mill usually then surfaces it on all four sides,
shaving off the rough cut to leave a nice smooth surface. This takes off
around a quarter inch per side. Thus a 2x4 ends up as 1.5" x 3.5".

It's a little strange, but makes sense historically and per manufacturing
practice. Kinda like a "quarter pounder". But what's really inexcusable is
that plywood is no longer sticking to its nominal size. A 3/4" thick ply is
actually 23/32” thick. For a full table see:
[https://www.inchcalculator.com/actual-plywood-thickness-
size...](https://www.inchcalculator.com/actual-plywood-thickness-size/)

~~~
coronadisaster
"The lumber is indeed cut at the mill to its nominal size (like 2x4)"

That is still true today?

~~~
DrPhish
I do industrial IT for a Candian wood products manufacturer (dimension lumber,
studs, veneer, plywood, OSB and previously Kraft paper) and I can say for
certain that it is still sawed to a 2" by 4" shape in the sawmill and (after
being kiln-dried) planed down in, well, the planermill. The 2x4 is "nominal"
and doesn't represent the final dimensions of the finished product. And yes,
rough 2x4 lumber is still sold, and it is in fact 2" x 4".

Wood products manufacturing is fascinating, and I could go on about various
minutiae all day. AMA I guess?

~~~
coronadisaster
Is the metric system on the horizon?

~~~
DrPhish
There is a mix of metric and non-metric products, with panel products having
more than lumber. Occasionally you even run into other weird measuring systems
such as in traditional Japanese beams. North America seems very stuck in
imperial measures when it comes to lumber specifically, likely due to
entrenched skills and thinking in carpentry. Even PET (precision end trimmed)
products designed for cookie-cutter construction are in inches (eg 140 and
5/8"). There is even resistance by old guys against metric threading on
machines since all the old tooling and warehouse stock is imperial!

------
bkjelden
Big box stores (Home Depot, Lowes, and Menards if you're in the midwest) are
not generally great places to buy lumber. They're convenient if you're in a
pinch and need a couple boards, but they're expensive, their framing lumber
quality is really poor, and their hardwood selection is really limited.

For framing (softwood) lumber, you want to find a local lumberyard. Their
prices will be more competitive than you expect (my local supplier is about 5%
cheaper than Home Depot!), but what you're really going there for is the night
and day difference in quality - boards that are supposed to be straight will
actually be straight! Their hours are usually not convenient for a DIY-er (8-5
M-F, _maybe_ 8-noon on Saturday), but they'll usually deliver for free or a
reasonable fee, and these days most of them will do business over email.

For hardwoods, you want to find a hardwood lumber supplier. These are pretty
narrowly targeted at woodworkers, furniture makers, and cabinet makers, and
don't sell much besides hardwoods and cabinet-grade plywood - you wouldn't
even buy a 2x4 at these places. But they'll carry species and sizes of wood
that neither a big box store or a normal lumberyard carry - you want some 4/4
wormy maple to build a tabletop out of? They'll be the only ones that have it.

As for finding these places, the best thing to do is just do some googling and
ask your friends/family/coworkers. These places don't advertise much so it's
not particularly obvious to a beginner how to find them or that they even
exist.

~~~
war1025
> these days most of them will do business over email.

This has been super convenient for me. I email the guy at the lumber yard,
"Hey, I'm thinking about doing X. I think I'll need these supplies. Can you
get me a quote?"

He responds with a price list, maybe some substitution suggestions, and we
barter back and forth a bit until I say "Yes, please order that for me." Then
if it's a special order, he'll say, "Great, I'll let you know when it
arrives."

It's a very satisfying process. Plus I always send pictures after I complete
the project, which I think both of us enjoy.

------
TrackerFF
Not relevant to the article, but I just want to say that woodworking is fun.
Yes, there's a lot of things to learn, everything from the wood/material
itself, to the tooling, to finishing. Just starting with small stuff is great,
and doesn't need to be expensive.

We learned woodworking in school, and had a really great teacher throughout
the years. I later started playing guitar, and use a ton of what we learned
when building or fixing my instruments. Currently working on a mahogany body,
and it's very soothing work.

------
rsync
One piece of advice that I would like to offer is to not order wood for
delivery - whether from your local hardware store or a lumber yard, etc.

You will receive the crummiest batch of warped, twisted, banana shaped boards.
You're getting all of the rejected pieces that the smart people rejected.

While I typically bemoan the time I spend hand picking lumber at the lumber
yard, it is always time well spent - even the high quality material (kiln
dried, clear, etc.) has a very wide range of quality and defects.

~~~
war1025
> not order wood for delivery - whether from your local hardware store or a
> lumber yard

I just had 45 1x8s delivered from the local lumberyard. After they dropped it
off, they said, "We have some more in stock still, so if you find any that are
bad, let us know and we'll swap them out. They all looked good to us though"

Having now gone through all of the wood, they were spot on. It's great wood.

~~~
rsync
Sorry - I should have qualified my comment as relating to framing lumber - 2x4
and 2x6, etc.

1x8 and so on is usually of decent quality and relatively uniform.

------
sigstoat
i'll throw out a mention of the youtube channel Sampson Boat Company:
[https://www.youtube.com/c/SampsonBoatCo](https://www.youtube.com/c/SampsonBoatCo)

it's one guy and various volunteers working to restore a >100 year old wooden
sailing yacht. while he isn't even trying to teach wood working, i've learned
quite a bit, and he's certainly caused me to reevaluate what can be
accomplished with wood.

------
Okkef
"the complete guide to buying lumber at home depot for simple diy projects"

There is so much more about lumber to know than this. It's a mistake to (only)
consider big box stores for lumber.

If you like to learn more about wood, wood grades, milling, drying and working
wood, I can wholeheartedly recommend the "wood talk" podcast with Marc
Spagnuolo, Matt Cremona and Shannon Rogers, as well as the "lumber industry
update" podcast by Shannon Rogers. They all have great YouTube channels too.

------
Blammar
Plywood has become significantly more complicated. See
[https://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/library/reference-
gui...](https://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/library/reference-
guides/grading-guide/core-types/) for example.

Agreed on going to a lumberyard or specialty wood store for hardwoods. It's
great fun to check out coco bolo, ebony, zebra wood if you've never seen them
before.

------
aazaa
> ... as a piece of softwood lumber dries, it shrinks. That can change plans
> for how it’s used on the job site.

This was quite a revelation when I first tried to build something with 2x4's.
They weren't 2"x4"!

~~~
mtrower
If you're referring to the fact that they were 1.5" by 3.5", that wasn't
shrinkage. That's nominal vs. Actual size.

The lumber is indeed 2x4 at rough cut, but when you buy S4S (surfaced four
sides) lumber, it's been surfaced down smooth. That process takes some
material off, leaving you with the half-inch discrepancy.

------
pengaru
Surprised to not see any mention of avoiding heart-center containing boards.

In my experience those are much more prone to warping, twisting, and splitting
as they continue drying and acclimating to the destination environment.

~~~
beervirus
Yeah it’s generally a bad idea to leave the center pith in your project.

However, I often buy a nice clear 2x10 (or 2x8 or whatever) that has pith down
the middle, and then just rip it into 2x4s that avoid the pith. The overall
quality of the wider boards tends to be much better than the garbage that gets
made into 2x4s at the mill.

~~~
war1025
This reminds me of something I heard on a Woodwrights Shop episode I was
watching. He mentioned that since 2x12s require such a big cross-section of a
tree, you can usually rip them down and end up with really nice quarter sawn
lumber from the two ends of the board. He was making a desk with the wood I
think.

~~~
itsananderson
For anyone wondering about quarter-sawn wood, this article has a pretty good
rundown of what it is, compared with other lumber cutting techniques and their
properties. [https://www.grandior.net/what-is-the-difference-between-
plai...](https://www.grandior.net/what-is-the-difference-between-plain-sawn-
quarter-sawn-rift-sawn-and-live-sawn-lumber/)

~~~
TwoBit
God that article is so confusing because it says quarter sawn is one thing,
then says it's another thing and has multiple diagrams directly in conflict
with each other.

------
ggm
I am told a really cute windmill driven saw yard in the Netherlands is one of
the last refuges for restoration of period homes: everywhere else nearby is
doing metric dimensional timber cutting.

