Ask HN: Did you work too hard in your 20s? - asdev
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omeysalvi
I turn 30 in a week. I didn't work hard and neither did I have fun. The things
I wanted to do like get in relationships or have a close knit friend circle
never worked out because I just didn't have the people skills to make it
happen. My 20s were wasted in nursing my own bruised ego and running behind
people who didn't care about me. Neither did I work hard and make something of
myself as a career. Most of my time was spent on half finished projects and
playing games or Netflix. I maybe had two good years in all my 20s. I wouldn't
say it was a complete waste because I at least realized what I was doing wrong
but then a part of me also thinks I should had the wisdom earlier so that it
could have been better. So overall, I just went through my 20s on autopilot. I
couldn't do the things I wanted to do and I what I could do I didn't want to.
I felt like I had no choice in my happiness. I was doing things that I thought
I should be doing to live up to other people's standards instead of what I
really wanted to do...if that makes sense. Now that I'm older, I have decided
that I'm not the ambitious type and all I want to do is to chill and have
enough money to not live paycheck to paycheck. The rat race is for the birds.

~~~
fishingisfun
just wanted to add that i felt the same right until about 28 or so. Eventually
those bad/neutral life decisions will serve a purpose to make sure you dont
waste future opportunities. good luck

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ed_at_work
Quite the opposite. I didn't take my career seriously enough in my 20's,
didn't save retirement, and had to make up a lot of ground. Spent 10 years in
a dead end job, being underpaid. It was hard even finding a new gig because
people wondered why my salary was so low, and if it meant I sucked.

Took me about 2-4 years of job hopping to get up to a salary respectable for
my level of experience.

~~~
colek42
Why did you tell them your salary if if didn't help you?

~~~
ed_at_work
It took me a few job hunting attempts before I realized being honest was a bad
idea. In the mean time, I fought hard and pushed my then boss to give me a
substantial raise. I then left shortly thereafter ...

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atomashpolskiy
Yep. I started working full-time at 21 in 2010 and didn't stop until the
beginning of 2020. Currently on a sabbatical (kinda) and passively looking for
a new job in EU. In parallel with working full-time and being highly
productive on the job (always was a top performer, thanks to mild OCD, I
guess), I also married my gf, who gave birth to my son, when I was 24, and did
my best to be a good husband and father all along. On top of that, I spent
huge amounts of time (at nights, mostly) studying online courses, reading CS
books, learning stuff, etc. Finally, at ages 27-30 I was quite involved with
open source, in particular, my own projects: bittorrent library, which atm has
almost 2K stars on github, and a face detection engine in rust.

All this said, it was definitely a tough period in my life, and I'm kind of
happy, that it's over. My son is going to school this fall and does not
require as much attention as when he was a toddler. My projects are kinda
"finished", meaning that I'm not actively working on them anymore. If I'm
reading something nowadays, it's mostly history, philosophy and natural
sciences. Having time for myself, playing an occasional video game, going out
to skate or just hang around in the city is important to keep sane and not
lose the desire to work anymore.

So yeah, I've learnt first hand, what "hard work" really means, and learnt to
value free time, leisure and hobbies.

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shoes_for_thee
Hell no.

I lived a semi-bohemian lifestyle until I was 30. I worked maybe 25 hours per
week and spent a shitload of time working on hobbies and doing hours of yoga
every day. I took a lot of drugs, drank, slept around voraciously, and
travelled across the US and to countries all over the world.

When I turned thirty I decided it was a good time to do adult stuff, so I did.
I never accumulated debt and had always put away a small amount of retirement
money through my 20s, so I wasn't terribly far behind. It took about two years
to go from making $30k to making $100k.

There are trade-offs, but I'm at peace with my choices. I own a house, still
work on my hobbies, got married, and I don't think I'll have many regrets
around stuff-I-didn't-get-to-do.

And no, I never had a trust fund.

~~~
apollopower
Thanks for sharing your experience. As a 25 year old right in the thick of it,
trying to find my own personal balance, I'm curious to know your thoughts some
more: 1\. What are some of the trade-offs you're still feeling the impact of?
2\. How did your "adult stuff" transition play out? Was it something smooth
that occurred over a long period of time or a short immediate change?

~~~
shoes_for_thee
Transition to "adult stuff" was quick. I turned thirty and immediately took on
a full-time job at a tech company and moved into my own apartment. I still did
a lot of my hobbies and spent time with friends, but I decided to invest
myself in work and try to make some money. I was lucky in that I had
programming experience and connections at a company that would hire me despite
having limited experience.

It took a few years before I really decided to settle down, put down roots,
and get married. When I decided to do it, though.. I went and did it
immediately. I moved to a quieter, less expensive city, bought a house, a 20
year-old truck, and adopted a senior dog. My wife was the first person I dated
in my new city, and she worked at the cafe closest to my office. She was
probably one of the first people I met.

Fucking off in your 20s can be fun, but it can also be lonely and depressing
and you're never immune from all the bullshit that makes life difficult... At
some point in time, I decided that _I would rather be scared than bored_ and
based a lot of my choices around that particular value. And that's one of the
trade-offs: A lot of things are not going to work out, a lot of plans are
going to fall through. You have to be flexible. You're going to be on a
financial tightrope sometimes. Things are easier being settled. But, having
more to lose, I find myself more resistant to changes and more risk-averse.

The longer-term trade-offs are just financial and professional. I could have
been investing more of my money, or bought a house earlier. Getting yourself
to a higher level of income is fairly easy, but missing out on 5-10 years of
professional experience is difficult to make up for and that has long-term
financial side-effects.

The fact that things turned out okay for me probably has more to do with luck
that I care to admit.

------
sacks2k
In my early 20s, I was making minimum wage. I only stayed at this job because
it was comfortable and I didn't want to actually take a risk and go somewhere
new.

When I reached my mid 20s, the business folded and I was forced to find work
elsewhere.

I worked hard from 25-30.

At 30, I lived in Asia for a year (my dream that I couldn't actually realize
in my 20s) and worked remotely (low pay and hard work, but was very good pay
for where I lived).

Now that I'm almost 40, I have a house and make more money that any of my
previous jobs. My job is actually the easiest it's been in decades, mostly
because I overworked in my earlier years and working a regular job is rather
boring and slow compared to my usual pace.

I think working hard in your 20s is required if you want to have a good life
in your 30s+.

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frompdx
I worked the whole time and at times too hard. I've been employed in some
capacity or another since I was 17.

As I was approaching 30 I made a career change to tech. I did work too hard
during this period because I was working full time and also spending all of my
free time teaching myself new skills. Honestly it was a dark period because I
wasn't sure if there was a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of breaking
into tech and I was very unhappy with my job at the time. I studied on the
bus. I studied after work. I studied on the weekends. It was like working two
full time jobs.

I got lucky and was able to get a job as a software engineer. I spent the
first year working too hard. I reported for my regular hours and then worked
every night babysitting upgrades because I felt like I had to prove something
or pay something back for the opportunity.

Overall, I think I took myself too seriously in my 20s. I'm glad I put the
effort in because it was worth it in a way. But my perspective changed when
people close to me started get old, sick, or both and passed away.

My perspective changed and I don't take myself as seriously anymore. However,
I still struggle with feeling like my time is going to waste. Sometimes I have
hard time relaxing and doing something for fun like video games because it
isn't contributing to my personal development. I guess I'm still figuring that
out.

------
jameshush
29 now. I definitely worked hard. Absolutely no regrets.

First few years out of University I was working 2x as many hours for 1/2 the
pay I make now at a startup. But honestly, I had just moved to LA anyway at
the time and lived with the people I worked with (we lived/worked from an
apartment) so it wasn't a big deal.

Financially I'm in an excellent place (2ish years worth of expenses saved up,
more if I left Los Angeles for a low cost of living area). No debt.

Nowadays I don't work as "stressed" anymore, but I get a lot more done and
work MAYBE 50 hours on a bad week, usually closer to 40. Probably because I
quit drinking during the week and prioritized exercising and learning Chinese
in the mornings.

I highly recommend anyone having a tough time prioritizing exercising to just
bite the bullet and pay for a personal trainer. Especially if you're making
over $80k a year, it's easily the best money I spend. It'll make you less
stressed, more confident, and generally happier. People like to work with
happy, stress free, confident people so career-wise it's the best money you
can spend too.

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cutty
No. I started college at 21, got hired as a software engineer at 25 in the bay
area, and from 25-28 I dated, traveled, partied, and had a fun time. I worked
at most 40 hours a week and viewed work as income for my hobbies. I'm 29 now
and get contacted by FANG companies all the time for interviews, so I'm
assuming my work experience is somewhat decent. I have minimal savings and a
substantial amount of debt and I'm not as good of an engineer as I want to be,
but I feel like its not too late to turn things around and start working
harder now to advance in my career, and I have no regrets about my life
experiences.

~~~
throw51319
What level are you at as an engineer? Can you help architect whole systems or
are you able to just own certain functionalities fully?

------
dhruvkar
Nope.

I worked broad though. I held 18 jobs through my 20s -- selling Kirbys (vacuum
cleaners) and life insurance, working in China as a 3rd party inspector, bus
driver, working on a solar commune, developing custom manufactured parts
(think bearings), IT guy (Level I and II) and importing solar panels, among
others.

This was not intentional. I just never felt settled and wanted to try a little
bit of everything.

I look at my peers (like my wife and my brother), who stuck to one thing are
doing far better financially than I am. However, I still don't know if I'd
trade places. Some of those experiences were fantastic.

------
fatnoah
I didn't work too hard in my 20s, but absolutely did in my 30s.

In my 20s, my work week was roughly 40-50 hours at software startups. I very,
very, very worked late or on weekends. I had few obligations outside of work,
so I had plenty of time to pursue interests, get outdoors, hang out with
friends, etc.

By my 30s, I was married and had a kid. I was still in startups, but in
positions of higher responsibility. By the end of my thirties, no hour or day
seemed sacred and 50-60 hour weeks were the norm. When my son was young, I
dropped him off at school and kissed him goodnight in the evening. My wife,
who also worked full time, shouldered more than her fair share of the child
care load. We finally decided to sell the house in the burbs and move to the
city. My commute shrank by an hour each way and being close to home meant I
could do school drop off AND participate in after school activities since
school, parks, athletic fields, etc. were all a 15 minute WALK from my office.

Now, I'm in my mid-forties. After the startup I was a VP at was acquired, I've
lived the big company lifestyle. Most importantly, I'm back to 40-45 hour
weeks and feeling far more balanced in my life. My job lets me take the time
to spend with my family and doesn't interrupt my nights and weekends, despite
still being in a position of higher responsibility.

If I could do any era over, it'd be my 30s. I basically missed ages 1-4 for my
son and was not a great husband/partner for my wife.

------
afinlayson
I question this myself. I worked over 100 hours a week on the 3rd - 6th
version of the iPhone. Did I make a lot of money from working there? No not
really. More than I made at the 3 startups I joined afterwards .. but only
because I didn't sell my stocks. Did I learn a lot yes absolutely, probably
about 5 years worth. Has it helped my career: Absolutely. It's opened many
doors. I usually get to pick what I want to work on.

Did Paul Graham and Sam Altman both try to convince me to quit and join a yc
startup or start my own. Yes at 2 different Startup schools they told me I was
wasting my time. Shortly after I did join heed their advice and join 3
separate startups ... with mixed results.

Did I work too hard? Ultimately no, because it's like investing in the market.
Yes you think you'd rather have more (booze, travel, video game, etc) at the
time, but those things don't improve your life in the long run. And ultimately
I wouldn't change where I am today for the world ... minus the pandemic /
quarantine / civil unrest.

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Hossenffefer
I worked myself to the bone in my 20s. I live in NYC. I can’t remember how
many times it was a holiday or weekend night that i was toiling away. I had my
own business and wanted it to be successful.It lasted decade, then the
industry (print) collapsed, and at 38 I went back for a Masters and
transitioned to tech. Most times I read comments on this forum, it is asking
if there is some point at which you need to be ‘serious’ or have accomplished
as particular goal. In the end I think such questions are pointless. Life is
unpredictable. There is a bit of luck and timing in everything. IMHO the most
important thing is to stay curious, out of debt, and avoid working for or with
jerks. The stress isn’t worth it.

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cupofjoakim
Yes, I did. Slept at the office during crunchtime, identified myself with a
very unhealthy work ethic and got burnt out doing so. Many of my friends have
gone through the same thing - I think it's very common if you're a young self
taught developer in advertising/startups.

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theandrewbailey
I didn't work particularly hard. Aside from a year or two at near the
beginning, I've always worked 40 hours a week. Today (32) I have a house in a
nice part of a not expensive city, no debt excluding mortgage, and a well
funded 401k.

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csharptwdec19
Yeah.

I graduated college shortly before the 2008 recession and wound up stuck in a
very bad, dead end (for my IT career) job. But I was helping put my wife
through college.

While it wasn't direct IT work, it was plenty of 'crunch' time with the sort
of boss who though that a good 'punishment' was to restrict you to 60 hours
for the week Or send you home for the day and have IT lock your account... in
either case announcing it loudly so the whole team knows you're the reason
they're going to fall further behind.

------
kren
Yes. I am now 32 and realized how hard my personal life suffered from thinking
I could accelerate my career by working as hard as I could starting around
2013.

Sure, I got promoted around once a year and my salary jumped 10-15% per year
without ever having to switch jobs. I learned a ton about enterprise software
and architecture from real world experience. I went from zero to hero at my
last job and became one of the most dependable people in my department in less
than a year of working there.

But it took a heavy toll. I went through two wonderful relationships that
turned sour from resentment. I worked 58-70hr weeks on average this year with
no weekends for four months. The worst was a year ago when I worked 100hrs/wk
for 5 weeks straight which led me to severe depression, a failed project, and
a missed 10k bonus.

I never had energy to do side projects or anything else except play video
games, which didn't counterbalance my work. I spent very little time on
cultivating my relationship with my partner so being around them wasn't
relaxing. I had ego issues even allowing myself to relax and give myself alone
time because it wasn't time spent learning and growing. My life revolved
around helping everyone but myself.

I turned down a 42k raise before I left my last job because I knew what the
stakes were had I accepted it in exchange for staying. More money and
accelerated experience won't give you a happy life. It will destroy it
instead.

I finished my last consulting project a week ago and I'm just taking a few
weeks to heal. No responsibility, no coding, no stress, no worry, no chip on
my shoulder holding a club over my head. I meditate an hour a day now, which
is very therapeutic, and I allow myself to play video games all day without
judgement. It's time to celebrate me, and I'm loving it.

After I heal, it's time to start my own business. I'm tired of spending my
valuable time and energy helping other people become rich while I clean up
after every stupid political decision they make. People are way too aggressive
on timelines and cost without understanding the consequences on the software
and on the morale of their employees. I need to get out of the rat race and
attain financial independence, which was my original goal before I worked so
hard, I forgot where I was going.

------
natalyarostova
Yes and no. I worked stupid, which was the worst of both worlds. While I did
have fun the few years I lived in SF, I spent a few too many weekend
afternoons trying to study or work on something, rather than exploring, or
hiking, or making new friends. I still work hard out of my 20s, but try to
reserve time each week for meaningful activity and leisure. Less so in the
last few months...

~~~
giantg2
I identify with this more than anything else said here.

"I worked stupid"

I put in effort on the weekends or night but it didn't make a difference in my
career. I was too dumb to realize it.

------
darrmit
I did, and was pretty successful for it, but it very nearly cost me my
marriage and family, so at ~29 I had to change.

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thirtythree
I worked hard but I also travelled a lot. I was in a commited relationship
throughout my 20s which made it all the more enjoyable.

But it did seem to go fast. Career wise I have progressed but I've always
fantasied about doing the start-up thing. I've never even launched a proper
(personal project) website

------
fireflux_
I'm 30 now. I worked very hard in my 20s (50-70 hour weeks on avg) and
eventually burned out badly at 29. While I still consider myself ambitious, I
now have a completely different view on work and living in general. I'm very
careful about how I spend my time and more aware about my mental health than
I've ever been.

I don't know if I regret it though. I learned a lot and had cool experiences.
Sometimes I think I needed to go through it to appreciate what I have now.

I will say though that I no longer have a huge desire to work at that "hot"
startup. I've worked in one, and while it's cool to talk about at parties, it
won't magically make you a happier person.

These days I'd much rather spend time after work with loved ones or tinkering
on a silly hobby. I'm really glad I've been able to make peace with that. Like
some of the people who posted here, I used to guilt trip myself for not
spending every waking hour doing something "productive" \- I now realize how
toxic that mentality was.

TLDR: I worked a lot, learned a lot, and changed from it to hopefully live a
more sustainable lifestyle in the future.

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adultSwim
Yes. I made other people rich.

~~~
h2odragon
I can sing that song too. However, I'm in a good place now, and what went
before led to here, so I don't let "might have beens" cloud todays joys.
Trite, but true.

------
Jeremy1026
Hell no.

