
25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning - rbanffy
https://dev.to/dechamp/25-years-of-coding-and-im-just-beginning-442n
======
orev
What every salary-person has to show for it: a life lived; bills paid; food on
the table; health; a roof over your head; a body not ravaged and damaged by
hard labor; the ability to relax and have some entertainment in the evening; a
place to sleep; comfort; relative stability; the ability to make a living
using mostly just your brain.

Yes, perspective is important, and I’m not saying one should not strive to
make more of an impact if you want. Just don’t overlook the fortunate times
you live in and the benefits you enjoy every day.

~~~
steve_taylor
You forgot to mention millions of dollars of value created for other people.

~~~
friedman23
A lumber jack cuts down a tree and sells the wood for $500 to a high end
furniture maker. This furniture maker then produces an armoire that he sells
to a rich person for $7000. Was that lumber jack exploited because he only
made $500 from the wood?

~~~
whateveracct
Uh huh and who are these artisans multiplying value (not just selling but
literally adding value) of software systems by 14x?

~~~
bch
I think PG said[0] it well:

Suppose you own a beat-up old car. Instead of sitting on your butt next
summer, you could spend the time restoring your car to pristine condition. In
doing so you create wealth. The world is-- and you specifically are-- one
pristine old car the richer. And not just in some metaphorical way. If you
sell your car, you'll get more for it.

In restoring your old car you have made yourself richer. You haven't made
anyone else poorer. So there is obviously not a fixed pie. And in fact, when
you look at it this way, you wonder why anyone would think there was.

[0] [http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html](http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html)

~~~
jacquesm
I'm guessing Paul Graham has never restored a beat up car to pristine
condition. Your pristine condition car that will fetch you less than the new
parts you put in when you sell it at what the market will pay for it.
Restoring beat up cars to new state is a losing game unless someone pays you
to do the work, except for some rare collectibles, which I am assuming are not
your personal beat up car. And even then chances are just about even that
you'll end up losing money on it. It's fun to do, you'll learn lots but please
do not think you will make money this way, especially not if you put any value
on your time.

~~~
grkvlt
As with all car analogies, this is _NOT_ about cars - it's telling a story
about wealth creation...

~~~
ngcc_hk
But if it does not work he should have a better example.

Still remember the paper about the externality of bee farm and apple farm.
Obvious issue of apple not paid the bee farm but no such issue - all paid and
in fact have contract what kind of bees etc.

A bad economic example is bad example.

~~~
ambicapter
> Obvious issue of apple not paid the bee farm but no such issue - all paid
> and in fact have contract what kind of bees etc.

What are you trying to say? This sentence is nonsense.

~~~
gjm11
There's a famous economics paper by a guy called Meade that gives some
examples of externalities (i.e., situations where what one person does affects
another in ways not represented by market transactions); one example is of a
region where some people keep bees and some grow apple trees, and the bees get
food from the apple trees and/or the apple trees are pollinated by the bees.
The beekeepers' productivity may be affected by the apple farmers' choices,
and the apple farmers' productivity may be affected by the beekeepers'
choices, but (in Meade's hypothetical situation) they don't trade with one
another so the market doesn't do anything to push them towards making choices
that work well together. (In which case, e.g., you might want the government
to step in somehow -- regulating those choices, or arranging taxes or
subsidies that encourage mutually beneficial behaviour, or whatever.)

But allegedly it turns out that in at least some cases where you have
beekeepers and apple farmers near to one another they _do_ trade with one
another -- with e.g. contracts stipulating what sort of bees the beekeepers
are going to keep -- and the market _does_ do its thing, and the result _is_
efficient allocation of resources.

Here's a paper by Steven Cheung about bees and apples in the Pacific
Northwest. It claims (I haven't checked any of its empirical claims or its
theoretical analysis):
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/724823](https://www.jstor.org/stable/724823)

~~~
gjm11
Oops! I accidentally the last sentence. It should say something like: "It
claims (I haven't checked any of its empirical claims or its theoretical
analysis) to find the effects I described in the paragraph above: there are
contracts, the market does its thing, and the result is efficient resource
allocation."

------
pugworthy
Speaking from 40 years of programming (not counting before 18), OP needs to
move to a life that's not about just programming.

The idea that OP has nothing to show from programming is short sighted, in
that it's assuming that all one can or should created in life is code.

Do you have stories to tell? Tell them.

Do you know more about how to create solutions now? Become a better problem
solver.

Do you know how to talk to a client about the "why" and not the "how" of a
project? Be a creator of solutions, not software.

Also, the OP should start thinking of personal projects in a new way. Learn to
fish, start a garden, volunteer somewhere, write, create art, travel, learn to
play an instrument, learn to mediate. Anything that's not programming.

~~~
tjtrapp
This response echoes my sentiment. I've been coding for 20+ years and have
found that literally writing the code becomes a smaller and smaller portion of
my day-to-day as my career moves forward. The solution design, guidance for
less-experienced team members, pull-request reviews, solution design with
customers/partners, etc. becomes a larger portion of my daily
responsibilities.

------
TrackerFF
I'm a musician, and I've been one for, well, 20 years now.

Without a doubt, my most productive years were from year 2-6. At year two, I
had mastered the instrument enough to be productive, and for the next four
years, I'd practice up to 12 hours a day, writing and record stuff as I
progressed on.

Lots of times, I re-visit older stuff, that I now felt I could do much better
- having progressed as a musician and songwriter. Suddenly I noticed errors or
things I hadn't done before.

As the years went on, and I got better, I (for some reason) lost that creative
fire I had as a novice. I became much more critical, wanted everything to be
"perfect", and would essentially stumble on more challenges.

And then, out of the blue, I'd hit a writers block - or just lose motivation
all-together. Suddenly I could go for a year or two without writing or
recording anything - zero output.

Even if I don't practice as much as before, I'm still a much, much better
musician than I used to be. But my creativity and drive is nowhere the same as
when I was transitioning from beginner -> intermediate -> good musician.

FWIW, I've noticed this with a lot of my peers, both in the world of music,
tech, and other. Sometimes it's because a hobby has turned into work, or
sometimes it's just change in interest.

It's hard to be passionate about something 24/7/365 for years and years, and
when you're not passionate, it becomes a grind.

When you're a beginner, it's fun to re-invent the wheel over and over again,
as you get a sense of ownership. YOU made it, even though it's been made
millions of times before.

Sure, I could spend my evenings pushing out apps just for the sake of it, but
it wouldn't give me any pleasure. And besides, that's what I do for a living.

~~~
bakoo
Interesting! In some ways, you're describing the difference between art and
craft, which might help explain why I often enjoy early albums more than later
ones, or at least appreciate them for different reasons.

I've always loved programming, but whenever I'm asked why I don't switch from
ops to development, my answer is that I don't want to destroy my hobby by
becoming a professional. I've seen it happen, not only to photographers that
shoot weddings and anything else that pays, but accomplished artists who can't
afford to not spend their time and talent to "create new artwork for our HQ
reception and conference rooms, since the old artwork doesn't match the new
logo". It can be heartbreaking.

------
Spearchucker
To start with I've been writing software for 32 years now. I went through what
this guy did, at around the same age as him, give or take. And I got past it,
as I imagine he will.

Today I work with people half my age who, and this is so obviously apparent
it's actually funny, are convinced they have a better grasp of the problem and
solution domain than I do. To be fair there was a young lady once who did, and
it was amazing to be humbled like that, but it's hardly the norm.

Anyhow, when I hit my mid-40's my ego (which was substantial) just kind of...
left. I still love tech, programming, solving problems. But this has taken
second place now to enjoying myself, my son, life. I now live for moments -
snowboarding, scuba diving, restoring an old BMW R80.

My biggest lesson to my 20-something self would be to get the hell over
myself. Life isn't a competition.

------
unreal37
Fascinating comparison of comments. If you read the comments to the article,
100% of them are "same with me". If you read the comments in HN, 50% of them
are "set your expectations correctly."

I read this and I felt like I needed to talk with the guy. It doesn't matter
if you "don't have anything to show" for 15 years of work. It doesn't matter.
Where is it written that programmers must have a hand-coded website or a open
source project to their name?

I also never buy the "I'm too much of a perfectionist" line. That's not a
thing.

You got bored. You didn't have motivation to complete. Sure, happens all the
time. "Too much of a perfectionist" is not a thing.

~~~
sureaboutthis
This is an article on dev.to. The home of frustrated redditors trying to make
a name for themselves. I'm starting to see too many of these on HN and have
never seen anything posted there worthwhile reading.

~~~
ndnxhs
Is dev.to the new quora? I haven't looked too much at it but it didn't seem to
be the worst.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I wouldn't say it's a home for frustrated redditors, but having hanged around
there for a while, it feels to be a place mostly made of junior webdevs
teaching junior webdevs.

~~~
LandR
Yep.

The blind leading the blind.

But that's most blogs regarding development nowadays, most are garbage advice.

------
ilovecaching
What is this obsessions with leaving something behind, or doing something
noteworthy? Be selfish. Programming is my selfish pleasure; I love it
therefore I do it.

Just remember, we are a tiny, insignificant speck in the history of our own
planet, let alone the universe. If you truly believe you can improve people's
lives with code, go do that. But don't make it about proving yourself to other
people, or creating a lasting legacy. Ask yourself, if everything I made or
affected disappeared when I died, would I still be doing this?

Fight Ego.

~~~
tluyben2
For me it's not ego, well not primarily I like to think. I find, after
programming for 30 years now, that programming is deeply flawed and that it is
basically a huge disaster waiting to happen (in many cases it's happening
already). I want to try to at least progress the field a little bit further so
it's not this bad anymore.

~~~
listen_er
I would love to hear more about why you believe programming is deeply flawed.

------
mmjaa
I've been coding for 30 years and I can't count the number of times my stuff
has just disappeared into the ether. All the CP/M apps I wrote, the DOS apps,
the risc/OS and the Windows and OS/2 apps, the BeOS stuff, the Linux stuff,
the iOS and Android apps which no longer work yet will never be updated to
64-bit "just because", etc.

The industry doesn't promote longevity - and neither do its participants, who
graduate from wherever they learned a career skill to enter the market and
make waves - by writing new shit that will change everything, and guarantee
that the work that was there before they came will become irrelevant and
archaic "ASAP".

You need not blame yourself. This is normal.

~~~
ngcc_hk
If open source them trust me someone may take that up and use it. I did. Try
to learn something and dig github and find something similar to start with. A
basic old turbo bridge program. Just reading it now.

------
angry_octet
I was applying for graduate school a while ago and the application form says:
GitHub link to your programming portfolio.

Portfolio? I don't have a portfolio. My work is jealously guarded by the
people who paid for it. I've been able to kick some stuff out as open source,
but it mostly isn't mine or especially good. (The victory was overcoming the
culture of fear.)

Of course, the form is for people who had just graduated recently. But it made
me question myself.

And then it made me question whether I was wanting to study the right course.
Were they open to having students who had more life experience than they did?
People who have been in the field building real systems? Other stuff came up
and I didn't end up finding out how it would go.

------
zmmmmm
It's a bit of a side point, but this is one reason I almost insist on
incorporating some of what I do at work into open source projects. I realise
there are places that make this very difficult. Sometimes you have to do it in
reverse - find an existing open source project, get that in the door at work,
then contribute to _that_ project. Done that way it doesn't seem like the same
giving away the corporate crown jewels as open sourcing existing things
originated in-house.

But the result is you don't end up 25 years downstream with nothing to show
for it. You end up with a collection of open source projects to your name that
you can keep working on and re-deploying over your lifetime.

------
sotojuan
I get the sentiment but if you want to be able to point to things that you
built years ago software is probably the worst career to take. We shutdown,
delete, replace, and rewrite our work all the time.

The small amount stuff that lasts over five years gets called legacy and is
made fun of.

~~~
imhoguy
_" if you program and want any longevity to your work, make a game. all else
recycles, but people rewrite architectures to keep games alive."_

Why The Lucky Stiff

------
michael_leachim
I am in a somewhat similar position, although I can't say that I have a solid
career. I've started through working on a startup and then miserably failed,
wasting three years.

Then worked for a small company making money saving and useful services for
them, but nothing extraordinary.

Then I tried again. And I failed again. I was disciplined. I planned and
worked hard for half a year, having nothing to show for it in the end. To the
point, when I just sat and said that I won't do anything code related until I
understand where I lack understanding.

I've come to understand that my main problem is fear. Fear of rejection of
things that I do. Fear that anything that I can share is of not enough quality
to be shareable. Fear of being not appropriate to the people online, or
expressing opinions that I have no right to express.

So, now I am working directly with fear. Will see where it will lead me.

~~~
howard941
FFS this comment resonates so deeply. I don't understand how to work directly
with fear except for being completely occupied so as to make rumination
impossible. Can you share any pointers?

~~~
michael_leachim
Several things that I am working with now:

1) Doing what is difficult. (Started commenting on here, planning to share
some of my work here and on Reddit).

2) Asking myself whether I am doing the right thing or avoiding it. (That is
when you can spend 3 months in refactoring when you really should just make a
landing and share the thing everywhere gathering feedback and iterating along
the way)

3) Constant exposure. I am planning to take some work in sales (which I
dread). That should help with breaking barriers.

4) Observing the mind. A form of mindfulness approach that warrants its own
larger explanation.

Now, I am nearly at the beginning of this journey, but I think I will be able
to figure it all out.

Hope this helps.

~~~
howard941
Thank you

------
twodave
I got my first TI-82 about 19 years ago. Never had to study for a math test
again. I’ve built some things since then as an employee, as a contractor, as
an owner and even as a donor, but never really “hit it big” by SV standards.
Still, it’s hard not to be thankful for the way my life has gone so far. My
single greatest asset is that I have the confidence to take on basically any
technical project imaginable. I’ve started from the bottom of a new tech stack
enough times and worked with enough different teams and bosses that I no
longer have this fear of being enough or doubt my abilities the way I did even
5 years ago.

There is a lot of value in confidence, ability to execute and knowing the
value of your own hour of effort. My advice to anybody out there who feels
like the OP is to get our and expose yourself to new things, take a few
measures risks and force yourself to grow.

~~~
kumarvvr
> confidence

That confidence to handle any technical work seems to stem from gradual
development abstract thinking w.r.t problems . Top notch problem solvers see
beyond the technical details and focus on more abstract aspects of the
problem. To them the problem at hand has a few key sub-problems that are very
critical and thus, when those are solved, everything else is just minor
details. Identifying those critical sub-problems seems to be the key. And that
is usually developed over a good amount of real-world experience. There are
genius people out there who can think in these lines in their teens, but those
are few and far between.

All those years of working, those long hours, those brain wracking problems,
those moments of sheet delight at having solved one, all of that _is its own
reward_. I may not have anything to show for my 15 years in a field, but I
have plenty of self-satisfaction and the _experience_ living those moments.

------
ngcc_hk
There are two kind of life - swim in the sea and walk the mountain.

Swim in the sea you enjoy but nothing left behind. We call the people good at
this guys with wisdom.

Walk the mountain you left a path. If the steps repeated made a path to ease
late comer. But if not continue walk the path will be covered and gone.

When you walk you follow path not known who made it in many cases. Or create
your own. We call them people of righteous.

Are you a swimmer or a walker?

~~~
discreteevent
The tradition of the camp-fire faces that of the pyramid.

------
martinsb
I cannot express in words how much I feel I relate to this post. Big thanks to
the author of the article and OP for posting it here.

A few thoughts:

* Don't compare yourself to others, nothing, absolutely nothing, good comes out of it. Ever. I know this is especially hard in times when anyone can brag about their accomplishments in a blink of an eye on Twitter, Facebook or anywhere else. Follow those people, learn from them but don't compare yourself to them.

* Even if you did not finish your projects you still have learned something which makes you a better programmer.

* Programming is just a tool. Nobody will care much about your code as long as it does its job - be it a great application, service or a useful library.

* Your job pays your bills, if you earn more than others (a very common case if IT jobs), donate money to charity, to a good cause.

* The author has taught a person to program and he created a website. This is not something to be jealous about, the author should be proud of himself. It sounds to be that the author is a good tutor, maybe there's an opportunity to participate in local meetups, organize workshops or start a career in that direction?

* As others already mentioned, programming is not the only thing in life. Maybe there can be other hobbies like painting, carpentry, or gardening?

EDIT: formatting

~~~
dechamp
Thank you! I appreciate you saying this. I will take your points and apply
them.

------
n1vz3r
As article author did, I code since I was eleven and yes, that's 25 years too.
I feel for him, because perfectionism along with need of exhausting everyday
grind (especially when you have kids) quite reduces our ability to spend
productive time to create Next Big Thing. But for me, the biggest showstopper
is that I love to code, but just to code. I don't care much about sharing what
I did, nor I want to get approval from someone who uses my work. Maybe I will
overcome my issue one day, as author did overcame his. (edit: spelling)

------
DanielBMarkham
My father-in-law is a carpenter. When we talk about work, he talks about
things we can drive around and see: porches, houses, parts of big buildings,
housing projects. I have nothing to point to that would mean much of anything
to him. At least I didn't up until the last ten years or so.

I used to focus on the code. People wanted stuff and the code had to be
"correct" so that they could get what they wanted. I found "correct" to be
endlessly complicated, but heck, that was part of the fun of it.

Then I focused on the people. How am I interacting with the people I'm trying
to help such that I have a better idea of what "correct" means? I found that
people don't know what they want, they don't know how their desires might
change, and even if they did they are incapable of describing that to me in a
way that would provide significant architectural guidance.

Finally, I balanced them. I created a definition of good code. _Good code is
code that does something for people that they value that I can walk away from
and never touch again_ If the code doesn't do anything valuable or I can't
walk away from it, it's not good code.

This made me realize that as much as I knew about people and programming, I
suck at good code. I get wrapped up in the people part, not figuring out value
or being able to scope it well. I get wrapped up in the coding part, building
out things that I'll only need in my imagination.

It made me feel a little better to see that so many other developers suck at
my definition of good code also, but it was a terrible blow. Humbling.

I'm happy I made the change. I don't feel the way I used to a decade or two
ago. My journey is not this author's journey, but I feel the pain he expressed
in his essay, and because of that pain I began mine. Best of luck.

~~~
rumcajz
I like your definition of good code. In the industry we are brainwashed to
think that code is something that needs constant maintenance. Good to see
someone who haven't succumbed that mindset.

------
ams6110
_I guess I didn 't realize just how many people out there are seeking anyone
who knows even a little more than they do. They don't care if that person has
25 years or 25 minutes more education than they do. They only care if they can
learn from this person and build a communication line with them._

In the business world it's the same with software. At one place I worked they
were paying thousands of dollars a year for a software product that was buggy
and barely worked. It was _slightly_ better than a shared spreadsheet. But it
was better, so they paid for it. Most non-technical people are pragmatic, and
also jaded about software. They expect it to be arcane and difficult and
spitting out errors and warnings. They just learn how to get through it in the
ways that do work, and as long as it's a net time saver they'll accept it.

------
hirundo
I recommend "The War of Art". For me it holds up to multiple readings and
gives me a kick in the pants each time.

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1319.The_War_of_Art](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1319.The_War_of_Art)

~~~
merlinsbrain
I read this based on some HN comments, I found it to be pretty motivational
but not much else.

Was there anything else you gained from it that I may have skipped?

~~~
jfoutz
The whole thing is concrete examples of thinking deeper about a problem. I
guess it can be motivating if you’re ever in position to corner an enemy army.

I’d say it’s examples of game theory, that worked, without any sort of sense
of game theory existing. It’s kind of the root of a weird synthesized way of
thinking about the world.

~~~
quonn
I think you are confusing „The Art of War“ with „The War of Art“. I‘ve
partially read both and the second one is purely motivational and not much
else.

------
justanother
Hi there, programmer since age 4, professionally for about 27 years. You
haven't heard of me. There's a fair chance you've used something I've worked
on, but more likely you haven't. I'm over 40 and haven't had my zillion dollar
Californian exit. In fact, despite extracting some rather generous sums from
clients over the years, I still often struggle financially due to the people,
animals, and causes I care for.

I know people who've had exits. Some of them have a family they neglected for
it. Often there's an abused (or just cheated-on) spouse. Many of them are just
pure sociopaths who would shank their own mothers, and literally gave all to
pursue an exit. If you really wanted to join them, you know you could. But you
haven't. This shows that despite your doubts about your career, you have some
degree of integrity. And yes, I'm aware not all people with the Grand Exit
achievement are this dirty, but having had a front-row seat enough times, I
can verify it's substantially easier when they are. I should also mention I
know some genuinely nice, and not incredibly talented, people who sort of
stumbled into the Grand Exit and have been horribly alienated by the ruthless
financial demands of entitled "friends and family."

You've chosen your battles, be proud of your choices. In just a few more
decades, you and I and the overachievers will all be equal below the surface
of the planet. Their names and works will be forgotten too.

Till then, let's have fun and maybe lift a couple other people up with us.

~~~
dechamp
wow, this gave me cold chills. I seriously ran through scenarios a million
times of what happened if I made progress on my projects and they sold for big
money, is that even something i want? No, it's not. I just want to code cool
things, and maybe share my knowledge with those who are interested in it. Have
my family close to me. What I really want is just to feel like I have a story
to share with others. To have my knowledge and skillset appreciated by others.
I don't need to be rich or have the coolest projects. Money is great, but
you're right, it brings out the devil in some. My aunt's husband just died and
his own kids are after the money... it's sad. So I'll take your advice. I'll
be grateful for my family, and for my experience. That I get to code, that is
my reward. Thanks again for this post.

------
komali2
I think one of the most important lessons I took from the coding boot camp I
went to was the value of the MVP. There, the first step was to deploy an
index.html with "hello" before doing anything else, before even npm init.
Then, get your framework running with another hello. Then, the barest
functionality possible - if we were building a GitHub analysis thing, make the
frontend capable of listing repos before building the server that did analysis
on those repos (or vis versa).

Through a couple group projects I refined the concept of KISS and feature
prioritizing, siloing, and escalation.

------
simplecomplex
Programming is a means, not an end.

------
gammateam
> I only have websites for clients, which most are no longer up; or businesses
> I have worked for as an employee.

This is the worst and contributed to me doing different things, for me it was
apps whose API servers were no longer responding.

It is very hard to keep your portfolio up to date, when you aren't able to
show even the public facing side of it.

~~~
Kagerjay
1\. Make a video, showcasing results. If you need approval delete sensitive
data first

2\. Take lessons from work apply to opensource. You take your lessons learned
with you everywhere

~~~
dechamp
I like this idea, thank you.

------
j45
The key is to be open to understanding yourself. Have people praised your
intelligence in the past? That can be paralyzing over time. Or did they praise
your effort?

I recommend giving a book called Mindset a read. It helped clarify behaviors
of a fixed vs growth mindset, and how having talent still means working hard
and putting themselves out there.

This book appears well researched and is the first audio book in a whole that
has been able to hold my attention.

[https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-
Dweck/dp/0...](https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-
Dweck/dp/0345472322)

------
saagarjha
Some suggestions I have for the author is to participate in open source or
write a blog, which allows you to benefit others with your work and gives you
“something to show for it”.

~~~
dechamp
Totally agree. That is part of the fear I've dealt with. Would these developer
even accept or want my help? I realize now, I have to just do it and learn to
improve until they do.

------
thallukrish
I have been in this same space for a while. But the problem I am solving is
lot more complex for a individual part time contribution. I am aware of it and
I keep pushing it and it is now into final testing / deployment though a
million things can be polished. I am dying to release it, but the problem
itself to be solved reasonably well kept me at it.

~~~
dechamp
Just do what I did. I cut a new branch, removed all the parts that weren't
done and released it. Then I wrote a post about my fear about it, and the
comments have motivated me so much that I already did a whole new layout just
in 1 night!

------
ensiferum
"I've worked on software/apps that pull in millions and millions of dollars
and have hundreds of thousands of users. So when it comes to work, I'm solid
and secure."

Sorry but nope. Just because you've worked on something that is popular
doesn't mean that it is of good quality or well developed or secury or that
the particular devs are competant or good.

~~~
dechamp
I meant emotionally, that I'm solid and secure. That was not a reference to my
code. The point of me stating I worked on projects that make millions and
millions with thousands of users, is that, if I can do that and work on that
with confidence (not ego), then why am I so scared to work on a tiny project
and even release to just a few people.

------
RomanPushkin
Just realized that I have 29 years of experience

------
purplezooey
He's only 36. pfft.

------
nickthemagicman
I feel this same thing with coding every day. Architects and Engineers design
building/bridges that last lifetimes, Doctors cure people, Lawyers can advance
our legal system.

We crank out code under deadlines for projects that get shuttered/replaced
within a couple years due to changing tech business.

------
dechamp
OP here. Perhaps I should have clarified what I meant by "having nothing to
show for it". I meant in the sense of my portfolio. If you asked me to see
what I've built, I'd have nothing to show you other than corporate websites.

------
antibland
When the first thing I learn about someone is how long they've been doing
their job, a little red flag begins to climb the pole. It usually announces
some deeper insecurity about their competence at said job.

------
JustSomeNobody
Sounds like a good healthy dose of imposter syndrome.

It’s a struggle a lot of us have.

Thanks for writing this.

------
dana321
Pretty cool site so far, the background noise feature is pretty soothing

------
known
Sounds like
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis)

------
hyperpallium
I feel cheated by the TL;DR - you can listen instead of _" read"_. But it
takes longer, where's my summary!

I think the tension between perfectionism and pragmatism is intrinsic to
programming. You need some perfectionism to be able to do it, but there's no
limit to how overperfectionistic you can be.

20 years ago, the "pragmatic programmer" addressed this issue.
[https://wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pragmatic_Programmer](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pragmatic_Programmer)

------
ivanhoe
Jordan Peterson has come up with this rule: "Compare yourself to who you were
yesterday, not to who someone else is today". Aside all the controversy that
surrounds him, this is really deep and solid advice IMO. You don't live the
life to impress others, so who cares if you have to show "something", you did
a tones of projects, you got knowledge and experience from those projects,
that's what you can (and should) show - and if you also got yourself a normal,
stable life, family, friends - what else do you need really? Fame, boosting
your ego by getting stars on github, is that really such a big deal?

~~~
claplouder
Pretty sure that Jordan Peterson didn't come up with that.

~~~
ivanhoe
I can't claim that he did or did not, I quoted him simply as I first heard it
from him in this form. And it's not really important who come up with the idea
first, in some way it is really an obvious thing, but we all forget about it
too often. With the rise of Internet we stopped comparing ourselves with
people around us locally, instead now you compare yourself with the whole damn
planet. Instead of competing with few hundreds or thousands, you've now set
yourself against billions of people - and that's a recipe for depression.

~~~
claplouder
You actually said he came up with that, so I corrected you.

~~~
ivanhoe
I meant that it's one of the rules from his book 12 Rules for Life.

------
leafry
As a relatively new coder, I feel like I took a lot away from this article.
There was a lot that they mentioned that made a lot of sense to me and I will
try to hold on to.

------
oskkejdjdkjd
People seem to assume that once they get a computer science degree, and when
they become good programmers, they will automatically be wise in all domains
of life. The cockiness and gigantic egos of programmers is very clear evidence
of this. Some of the weakest people I encounter, in terms of the thoroughness
and completeness of their existential philosophy, are programmers. Having a
feeling of content or completeness when you identify as a “programmer” is a
trap that only the weak-minded seem to fall into. Just look around the
peninsula now.

------
umen
You are not coding from the age of 11 !! , you are coding from the day you
paid to code

------
omgoodness7
I’m glad you had a long career and continue to do so. You sound similar to
engineers I’ve interviewed with 1 year of experience for 15 years. Good luck
on your journey.

------
readingnews
No offense, but you claim you have been "officially coding for 25 years now".
You state you are 36. Were you really, officially doing anything at 11 years
of age. What does that mean? I was a solder tech at 13 years old. I NEVER
throw that out there in any blog or write up, even though I was _literally_
getting a paycheck from a company. Does that make me an official solder tech?
Hell no. When people ask how much experience I have as that, I usually start
from the time I was 18. Why? Most of the world does not care what we did as
kids. I find it strange you would throw out "official coder" at 11. Really,
what does that mean?

~~~
lostgame
Wow. Downvote. When I was 11, I was writing assembly to modify SEGA Genesis
games, writing my own C++ functions for SRB2, a modification of the DOOM 2
source engine, and experimenting with my own raycasting 3D engines.

People can do really serious programming at virtually any age. I’m 29. I’ve
been coding for almost two decades, extremely seriously. I got my first job as
a software dev for Chase banks directly out of high school, and I’m currently
employed at one of the top banks in Canada.

I would argue part of my curiosity as a kid really blossomed my coding
ability, especially in terms of stretching limited hardware to its limits.

Don’t discount kids. They are the future.

~~~
ddingus
Aaron Schwartz, well known case in point.

Many of us were doing things in our early years. That crap is for the people
who will consider it.

