

Hulu requests removal from Boxee - moses1400
http://www.centernetworks.com/hulu-boxee-removal

======
nikblack
There is some background to this that is interesting. The reason why the
content holders behind Hulu didn't want their content on Boxee was because it
came too close to replicating the television experience.

While the advertising was kept in place, it still doesn't attract the rates
that normal television does. Given a choice, content holders definitely prefer
viewers to tune into ordinary broadcast television to watch their shows -
online content is about capturing the potion of viewers who miss shows and
don't watch broadcast television.

With Boxee, there is the potential that the online content will cut into the
broadcast TV audience - hence this decision.

What is interesting is that the true motives are now more obvious. Online
content, in the form of both iTunes and Hulu, is fine as long as it doesn't
cut too close to the broadcast base.

Content holders have gone from vigorously defending their network broadcasts
to now accepting online content, but only to a point. The next battle will
take place when more intelligent PC-like DVR's come out on the market (like
the PS3, but at a $100-150 price point) allowing viewers to easily stream
online content to a television with a remote. The content owners have a short
time window between now and then where they have the best of both worlds -
both broadcast and online, but once it all goes online the very lucrative and
protected broadcast market will be threatened.

With online, there is no more having to acquire broadcast licenses, no more
large-scale infrastructure networks to reach your potential audience and no
longer limited competition and cable monopolies with packaged channel
selection.

~~~
nikblack
Further, here is a comparison of CPM rates and revenue for a typical TV
episode.

Network TV: $20-40cpm per ad - 15-19 ads shown in 30 minutes

Cable: $1-15 cpm per ad - 10-22 ads shown (plus subscription revenue)

iTunes: $0.80 per viewer, so CPM of $80 total (est network share)

Hulu / Online: CPM $10-40. 1-4 ads per show.

If you do the math, its obvious that network broadcasts really rake it in. A
30 second spot on a prime time network show sells for anywhere from $400,000
to $800,000 per spot (for 15-30M viewers).

If everyone started watching Hulu instead, they would lose 80-90% of revenue.
If everybody downloaded on iTunes (assuming 3 viewers per download, or more is
likely) they would still lose out but not as much.

The problem is if the networks start offering a la carte shows for $2 a pop,
they lose the bundling revenue (ie. channels you receive in a bundle but would
never pay for on their own).

~~~
brent
First, thank you for providing actual numbers.... but...

Supply and demand. If everyone started watching on Hulu they would be able to
charge more per advertisement. These are rates given the current situation,
not the future. Why do I say this? I watch Hulu. I do not watch TV otherwise.
If the advertisers (and networks) want my eyeballs they need to provide
content via Hulu.

~~~
krschultz
Those numbers or per thousand so it doesn't really matter I would think.
Personally I would think that the Hulu ads are more valuable than the TV ones
because it is 1 advertiser per show and there is less signal to noise for the
viewer. When I watch football on Sunday it is sponsored by Ford, Toyota,
Miller, Budweiser, Verizon, and 10 other companies I will never remember or
care about. When I watch the Daily Show on Hulu it is 1 company a few times
and actually leaves an impression.

------
jonursenbach
It really is a shame for NBCU, and company, to ask Hulu to cut Boxee off. If I
recall correctly, didn't content from Hulu that was piped into Boxee still
have ads?

Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having
legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods.
When will old media learn?

~~~
jrockway
_Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having
legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods.
When will old media learn?_

How is bit-torrenting TV episodes illegal?

They are broadcast into my house for free, so why would it matter if I record
them, or if Some Guy On The Internet records them for me? (I never watch TV
un-timeshifted, so I don't see ads either way.)

~~~
wmf
I'll assume this was a serious question. While recording a show yourself and
downloading it both produce the same outcome, copyright law cares about the
path that bits take. Even if the TV networks are distributing something for
free, it isn't legal for you to redistribute it for free without their
permission.

~~~
whughes
An interesting post I read about this a while back:
<http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php>

------
babul
In a way, this is actually a good sign. It shows the content providers are
scared. You are not doing things right if you are not shaking things up and
scaring people. That is what disruptive technology is about.

Many startups face similar challenges and this reminds me of the struggles
ones such as GlassesDirect.co.uk had to go through before becoming successful
(they could have been crushed many times by Goliaths but fought through) - it
had to close several times when major competitors and retailers tried to
sabotage its business by forcing manufacturers/suppliers to drop GlassesDirect
(else they would withdraw their vastly larger orders) and running smear
campaigns in the press with false allegations about why using the service was
illegal and substandard.

In this case, yes, content providers have a right to choose where/how their
content is shown, but this is probably more to do with not getting licensing
fees from Boxee than anything else. However, if they do not adopt/embrace
legal methods such as Boxee (and insert extra adverts etc. to make the revenue
they want), then they only encourage illegal methods.

\---

 _Concerted efforts to sabotage the new venture have proved fruitless. In
September, his main supplier mysteriously dropped him. “They suddenly said
they couldn’t do business with me. I reckon they had pressure put on them by a
high-street chain. It took me a week to find a new supplier and re-do the
website.” The trade press confirmed his paranoia when letters and articles
appeared questioning the firm’s credentials and the General Optical Council
launched an investigation. “Groundless attacks. I have fully qualified
opticians working in labs, making the glasses._
[[http://www.realbusiness.co.uk/archive/4775601/feature-
glasse...](http://www.realbusiness.co.uk/archive/4775601/feature-
glassesdirect-it-might-just-work.thtml)]

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Murray_Wells>

------
IsaacSchlueter
When I read articles like this, it just makes me sad for Hulu.

What an unpleasant predicament it must be to be in bed with such idiotic
partners who just Do It Wrong so much of the time.

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modoc
It's funny, I ordered an Apple TV to install Boxee on for the bedroom TV
today. Hulu was going to be one of the major sources of content for Boxee,
however now it sounds like it'll simply be tvtorrents + rss + rtorrent. It's
just as easy for me, but it means zero ads. Seems like NBC is the one losing
out by this move.

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tocomment
Dumb, question but what is boxee? Why would I use it? I honestly couldn't
figure it out from their website nor the wikipedia article about boxee.

~~~
Timothee
It's a media center software (based on XMBC) with a focus on online content
with videos from Hulu, Netflix, Comedy Central, YouTube, torrents, etc.;
pictures from PicasaWeb and Flickr, music from last.fm, NPR, etc.

Why should you use it? It's a great step towards combining online content with
a TV. It has a lot of pieces that are missing from AppleTV. (even though it's
possible to install Boxee on AppleTV :))

~~~
tocomment
I have a mac mini. Will it let me use the included remote to control it?

~~~
Watts
I tried it on my iMac, and yes you can use the Apple remote to control it.

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misterbwong
I really like the way that Boxee and Hulu are handling this. At least they are
being honest with their motivations and not trying to strong-arm users with
legal mumbo-jumbo.

That said, this is very unfortunate news. Just this week, I was contemplating
replacing my cable with boxee/internet streams. Oh well.

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wmf
Now I'm not so sure it's worth paying $30 for PlayOn; I'd hate to see it
crippled at some point in the future.

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donniefitz2
This is devastating news. WTF? For what reason? The ads are there. What is
wrong with these people. So much for innovation.

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wastedbrains
damn I was loving boxee and if people request out, then you will loose the all
in one media experience

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sachinag
You can fullscreen Hulu onto your TV with a PlayStation 3.

~~~
ctingom
How do you do that?

~~~
sachinag
1\. Open Internet Browser 2\. Hit Triangle and Search for [hulu] 3\. Go to
Hulu.com (should be the first hit) 4\. Click on the video you want. 5\. When
the page loads, hit Triangle then click on View. Then select the "maxiumum
size" option. 6\. Then Click on Full Screen view in the options on the Hulu
page.

This should work, but I get letterboxing on the left and right sides of my
HDTV. I assume this is my TV, but who knows.

[Edit: it appears that Step 5 is unnecessary.]

~~~
wmf
In my experience you have to use the game controller (rather than the remote)
to hit the full screen button. Overall, I find that PlayOn gives a much better
experience than the PS3 Web browser.

