
"I have come to find out what it's like to be dumb." - luigi
http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2013/09/stupid/
======
derefr
Grouping all the described symtoms under "depression" (and "stupidity") is a
non-helpful way to think about Lyme disease, which messes up all sorts of
neurotransmitters. You won't get very far by just comparing your experience to
that of a depressed person; variously, the symptoms of Lyme disease can mimic
clinical depression (serotonin/norepinephrine imbalance), _or_ ADHD (dopamine
imbalance), generalized anxiety (GABA imbalance), seasonal/chronic fatigue
(acetylcholine imbalance), and so on. This is besides the effects that the
swelling of brain tissue has on cognitive function, e.g. memory.

And I wouldn't equate any of that with what it's like to have a low IQ (what
is traditionally thought of as "stupidity.") IQ is a measure, basically, of
how little evidence your mind needs to recognize a pattern--thus, low-IQ
people being thought of as "dense," and thus sufficiently-high IQ being able
to do things like deducing all of physics from a few static pictures[1]. Being
dumb doesn't feel like having a bad memory, or thinking slower, or not being
able to multitask. It feels like looking at a square peg and a grid of shape-
holes, and not (quickly) realizing that "shape" is a relevant property that
the holes differ by, such that you should select a hole based on the shape of
the peg.

It should feel genuinely _alienating_ to try to picture yourself "dumber" than
you are--like that you, which you would be, is hard for you to empathize with;
like they'd solve problems in entirely different ways, out of necessity for
not recognizing patterns as easily. And then you can reflect that intuition to
understand what it would be like to be more intelligent than you are: someone
who would also solve problems in different ways, for seeing their structure
_more_ easily; and someone who would have a hard time empathizing with the
decisions a version of themselves, reduced to only your intelligence, would
make.

\---

[1]
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/](http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/)

~~~
marincounty
I agree with your post, except this part, "mimic clinical depression
(serotonin/norepinephrine imbalance), or ADHD (dopamine imbalance),
generalized anxiety (GABA imbalance), seasonal/chronic fatigue (acetylcholine
imbalance), and so on. "

They really don't know what causes anxiety, or clinical depression. The are
having a horrid time finding the true cause of these ailments. If anyone is
seeing a MD who claims to know what causes depression and anxiety see someone
else. It gotten so disappointing in the research community; very few companies
are actively even looking for the root cause to these horrid diseases. So many
people took these tri, and hetrocyclic drugs for depression, and if they
worked--it was most likely placebo. Yes--panic attacks, and generalized
anxiety respond to benzodiazepines most of the time, but hey are addictive,
and no researcher who is smart would Not claim to know how they work. I wish
you well.

I truly believe the best medicine is knowing you are going to get better. The
placebo effect is sometimes stronger than any antibiotic. I sometimes believe
the placebo effect is the only verifiable existence of God? When I am sick, I
do a little research on the Internet, but have found it's better to just
believe the medicine will work. Oh yea, I try to chose my doctors well--Board
Certified who actually tried to keep current after years of practice.

~~~
derefr
> They really don't know what causes anxiety, or clinical depression.

True in spirit, but untrue definitionally. The thing is, the psychiatric
profession still basically subscribes to a Behaviorist theory of mind when it
comes to treating neurological problems. There's no consideration of what's
going on in your head when you have a neurological malady; your head is a
black box, where drugs go in, and altered behaviors sometimes come out.
"Clinical depression" isn't the name of a specific thing that we know goes on
in the brain (in fact, it seems to be a whole cluster of things); rather,
clinical depression is "the thing which taking an SSRI usually makes lessen."
When a psychiatrist says you may be clinically depressed, what they're really
saying is, "you have _symptoms_ that may be manageable by the effects of this
or that drug." They have no idea whether they're treating the root cause, or
just masking it, and a lot of them don't care. They just want to see your
behavior alter, like a rat given a swim test.

And really, thinking of things like SSRIs as "medicine" is part of the
problem. SSRIs and the like are _crutches_ \--given to you to lessen the
symptoms of a problem enough for it to stop being _overwhelming_ , so that you
can actually manage to make it to the CBT-practicing therapist every day, have
the energy to find the the better job to get away from your horrible boss,
etc. I wrote more on this here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6347620](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6347620)

(P.S.: In this case, though, if I might be a bit more pedantic: I didn't say
that all those maladies in my post were caused by those imbalances. I said
that _inducing those imbalances_ , in the way that Lyme disease does, will
_mimic the symptoms_ of those maladies. Clinical depression may not be "just"
a serotonin imbalance--but inducing "just" a serotonin imbalance tends to
produce the symptoms of clinical depression. ;)

(P.P.S.: note that I never used the word "disease" or "illness" once. See my
link above--these words don't apply to things like nearsightedness, so they
don't really apply to the kind of problems neurological imbalances manifest
as, either.)

~~~
electronvolt
Certain forms of affective disorders (recurrent unipolar depression, bipolar
disorder) are actually best managed with consistent drug use, and there's
evidence that although things like CBT can help manage symptoms (and dealing
with the impact of being diagnosed), the depression isn't situational, being
on antidepressants or mood stabilizers is often the best treatment plan. A
person with bipolar depression (or recurrent, unipolar depression) who
approached it your way and decided to go unmedicated when they felt 'better'
could very easily have another episode, which is generally seem as bad (since
that's how people are killed by it). Equating serious mental illness with a
limp or nearsightedness (and not recognizing it as a serious illness: 25-50%
of bipolar patients attempt suicide, many succeed) is dangerous if those with
it believe you and somewhat dismissive.

On a more relevant note, there has been more and more fMRI work on identifying
the actual issues within the brain. I know less about unipolar depression, but
some results have shown that bipolar patients actually have slightly different
brain structures and vastly different neural activity during an episode.
Science is actually working on figuring out the black box mind-thing, and
hopefully it'll keep getting better at it. Treatments just have to slowly
catch up.

(Edited: grammar/spelling, due to writing on a tablet.)

~~~
derefr
Did you read my linked expansion on the topic? Some people need crutches,
temporarily; others need wheelchairs, permanently; and others don't _need_ ,
but function more optimally with, glasses. There are chemical imbalances that
resemble all of these states. (I have ADD myself, which is quite solidly in
the third group.)

------
hellyeasa
Good god. What is this pretentious bullshit? This tone of this post was so
incredibly ridiculous I had to create an account to ask why it was posted here
or taken seriously.

This self proclaimed smart person, with heavy emphasis on the self proclaimed
part (check out the incredibly smug About page) apparently needs Lyme disease
to feel the plight of the oh so pitiful stupid people. News flash, half the
population is dumber than average, stop acting like Lyme disease is a cute
self reflection on intelligence.

I am not attacking your smartness, and please get well soon, but don't be a
pretentious asshole. God. South Park's "Smug Alert!" episode perfectly
encapsulates the culture of this place sometimes.

Over and out.

~~~
pgsandstrom
Cut him some slack, he did write it while having Lyme disease...

------
jacquesm
Lyme is pretty heavy. Three of my family members have it in various stages,
one of them really serious. They live in rural Poland where in the forests it
is more or less a given that you will contract Lyme at some point in your
life. For foresters it is a better-than-even chance that they contract the
disease by the time they are 30 even if they are careful, all it takes is one
tick that you didn't spot and you get bitten by ticks all the time there.

Lyme disease does not 'make you stupid', but it can make you very ill. One of
the possible symptoms is depression, memory loss is another so the symptoms
the author describes are very much in the realm of the possible.

If you're ever bitten by a tick and you see a bulls-eye pattern around the
bite _get yourself to a doctor and make sure you are prescribed anti-biotics
right away, do not wait (for instance until your holiday is over)_. I can't
emphasize this enough. I don't like anti-biotics for many reasons when they
are used without a good reason but Lyme disease is no picnic and the earlier
you deal with it the better your chances of complete recovery. Wait too long
and you're in for a world of trouble, in case you think I'm exaggerating
please read the wikipedia page on Lyme disease or have a chat with my brother
in law whose life is pretty much determined by Lyme in a very advanced stage.

~~~
tszyn
A friend of mine recently got a rash (I don't think it was a classic bullseye
pattern) and some fatigue. She didn't notice a tick. Went to a doctor,
_suggested_ that it might be Lyme disease -- doctor told her if she'd had a
tick, she would have noticed it, so it must be allergy. A month later she was
in the hospital with a confirmed Lyme diagnosis.

If I get an unexplained rash with flu-like symptoms, even if I don't see a
tick, I'm taking antibiotics just in case. Better safe than sorry.

~~~
jacquesm
> Better safe than sorry

Yes, that's the right attitude to take with this disease. The main criterium
is that you've been in or are in a region where ticks are found, combined with
warm/hot weather.

Areas to avoid: long grass, shrub and forests.

~~~
DennisP
Also, if you're in one of those areas, check yourself thoroughly for those
tiny deer ticks every twelve hours. If you find one, pull it off without
squeezing its abdomen. That'll greatly reduce the chance of transmittal.

The problem is seeing the little buggers.

~~~
JeffL
You can get a cheap little plastic thing called a "Tick Twister" at the pet
store, and it is awesome. I've had to remove plenty of ticks from my dog, and
a few from people and this tool is invaluable.

------
jonnathanson
_" Depression, at least as I’m experiencing it, is the absence of emotion,
rather than negative emotion. I don’t mind it, not yet, but maybe depression
is what keeps me from minding depression."_

More likely, what you experienced was anhedonia, a symptom of certain types of
depression. Anhedonia is technically defined as the inability to experience
pleasure from once-enjoyable activities, but those I know who've suffered from
it have often described it in terms very similar to yours. They say things
like "I just didn't care about anything," or "it was like I was bored of being
bored, but too bored to do anything about it."

To simplify depression -- a neurologically and idiosyncratically complex
phenomenon -- as the "absence of emotion" is to mischaracterize the
affliction. There are other shades of depression in which emotion is, if
anything, severely heightened and labile. Pure, raw, unfiltered anguish. The
absolute lack of hope. Like the shit they talk about in the Harry Potter
books, when the dementors suck out your soul (incidentally, Harry Potter
author J.K. Rowling battled with severe depression, and she modeled said
dementors off of the suffering she went through).

~~~
skunkworks
A salient point re: the existence of different types of depression. Some cause
a physical slowness (can't get out of bed), some cause anhedonia, some are the
dementor type, etc.

~~~
girvo
I personally cannot get out of bed and face the world, I am suicidal at nearly
all points of the day (but in a curious way; it's more I picture myself
killing myself, but not in a "MUST DO THIS NOW" way. Its very odd and
disconcerting). I can still experience emotions (all of them), but they are
heavily skewed to the negative. I ignore the future, and focus on the past and
present.

It's a shit disease.

~~~
salemh
I've found this comic very helpful to understand/identify with some of the
emotions, swings and frustration with depression (and absolute stagnation).

[http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-
par...](http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-
two.html)

------
karlkatzke
I really feel for this guy.

I'm a linux sysadmin in a 24/7 data processing/medical environment. Last
november, I fell off my bike, without a helmet on. (I was on paved paths on a
college campus during a football game; if I had been playing in traffic or
moving quickly, I would've been wearing a helmet. However, I was moving at
walking pace and SOMEHOW went over my handlebars. I have no memory of the
accident.) I received a closed head injury, cervical spine injury, and had
bleeding on the brain, and was borderline for concussion. I spent the night in
the critical care unit and they wouldn't let me sleep. It was a pretty serious
injury and I was on painkillers due to migraines for years.

For several months, I tried my hardest to do my job. But I didn't "grok"
things. I couldn't code in the languages I'd known since the late 90s. I
couldn't learn new things -- learning Ruby, even with the help of codecademy,
was epic fail. I'd go through the classes and put any old thing in to make it
work (thinking it wouldn't), and get 100% without understanding WHY it worked.
I couldn't keep up with technology and wasn't reading HN and the other news
sources I normally keep up with.

Eight months after the injury, I suddenly understood my first languages again.
Another month after that, I could learn new things, and picked up Ruby and
Chef inside of a week.

The worst part of it is that I didn't know that I was stupid. I thought I
wasn't trying hard enough, and I pushed myself into feeling horrible about the
whole thing.

The entire experience has given me a lot of sympathy for people who say that
they can't do something because it doesn't feel understandable to them, even
after they've been shown and guided through it.

~~~
karlkatzke
> painkillers due to migraines for years

I meant "months". Obviously, not everything's back where it should be. (And
this is the truth. After my injury, my brain is not the same tool it used to
be. I troubleshoot in the reverse order I used to. I skip items in checklists
that I remember reading clearly and damned well know are there. Even though
most things came back without much struggle, I'm having to re-learn certain
small things that used to be second nature.)

Wear your helmets, kids.

------
joshcorbin
I'm really still trying to come to terms with the opener: "It’s not like I
deserve any credit for being smart. I didn’t do anything to make that happen.
I’m also tall, but nobody compliments me on that. (Good job being tall!)
Intelligence is an immutable characteristic that I have at times capitalized
on and at other times let go to waste."

To my layman understanding of psychology, and especially what intelligence
research has been uncovering over the last few decades, the exact opposite is
the case: \- intelligence is far from an immutable trait \- we do a lot to
influence our own intelligence (perhaps far more than we realize, since much
of what we do is due to implicit socialization/upbringing)

If you're going to use an analogy to a physical characteristic, than I'd
suggest using weight not height: yes there are relevant genetic traits, but
they're only a fraction of the story.

~~~
konstantintin
once you are a fully developed adult, intelligence is normally very stable. an
analogy with weight simply doesn't work: anybody can increase their weight
simply by eating more, but we don't know of any reliable methods of massively
increasing or reducing intellignece.

------
thinkcomp
For those who don't know, Waldo Jaquith is something of a national treasure,
as the only person in the country who has effectively managed to tackle the
problem of standardizing state statutes in an open manner, as they should be.
(I managed to get a few on PlainSite, but Waldo's platform has tackled many
more by distributing the problem.) Check out The State Decoded at:

[http://www.statedecoded.com](http://www.statedecoded.com)

We should all hope that Waldo feels better soon. He is anything but stupid.

------
david927
_Intelligence is an immutable characteristic_

I get so tired of seeing this. We can't even really define intelligence but
I'm guessing this is based on a previous assumption that IQ was static, which
we now know it not to be. We need to remember, also, that IQ is not a measure
of intelligence.

~~~
rlanday
Citation needed on both points. Most evidence points to IQ scores being valid
measures of intelligence, in that they have some predictive power, especially
for average life outcomes for groups of people, and are mostly stable
throughout life. For example, look up the Study of Mathematically Precocious
Youth, which examines life outcomes based on SAT scores at age 12.

~~~
david927
_valid measure_ ... _some predictive power_

I'm not sure if those two belong in the same sentence. If we were to come up
with a point system that measured beauty in women, for example, you could
measure pronouncement of cheekbones and thickness of lips, etc. While Angelina
Jolie would score well, so would Jocelyn Wildenstein, and Emma Watson would
score poorly. Such a system might have "some predictive power" for large
population sizes, but could never measure "beauty".

Intelligence is qualitative, like beauty, not quantitative, and therefore
could never be expressed individually as a number. We would do well to bear
that in mind.

------
kbenson
The closest I've ever come to understanding what it's like to have depression,
or any other neurological disorder affecting mental state, was a few years
back when I had a particularly bad cold and/or allergies, and decided to take
Mucinex DM.

By the end of the first day I felt a general malaise. By the end of the second
day I was feeling something I've never felt before, or since. Everything, and
I mean _everything_ in life seemed without value or purpose. The only thing
that kept me functioning and not immobilized as a curled up ball in bed were
the expectations of my family and job (which was _also_ for family). Even so,
I could tell I wouldn't be able to keep that up much longer.

When I come home, my two young daughters would run up and want to talk to me.
While I admit, I sometimes lose patience for them when I'm tired, in this case
I patiently let them explain what had happened so far that day, but _the
entire time, without exception_ , I could only think about how I wanted this
to be over so I could sit down and do... what? Nothing seemed worthwhile. No
TV, no book, no computer. I realized I might as well go lay down on the bed.
My goals and ambitions were also gone. I didn't want to work, I just wanted to
be left alone.

I lasted another day on Mucinex before I decided this was definitely not
healthy, regardless of how much less phlegm I had to deal with, and stopped
taking it. I felt normal (if stuffy) within a day or two.

I'm not saying this is the _same_ as depression, I really have no basis for
knowing. All I know is that if that's what people that are depressed feel
like, I feel very, _very_ sorry (and terrified) for them. The idea of the
ramifications if that lasted long term are horrendous. If I survived it long
term, I'm fairly certain it would be at the cost of ruining my life.

Interestingly, a friend of mine said he had a similar experience with Mucinex
DM a few months later. I didn't get into the details with him though (although
I had already described my experience before). It seemed too personal to ask
for more detail, considering my own experience.

------
burpee
It's funny, because Lyme is one of those diseases where "it could be anything"
to the outsider because there are no external indicators that something is
wrong with them.

Back when I was younger I got Lyme disease at the age of 13. I got treated for
it by some quack without antibiotics and then went on with my life -
essentially untreated. Between the ages of 14 and 17 I have barely any
memories. There are snippets of events that I can recall in my memory, but in
total they must be less than 20 snippets over the course of 3 years of my
life. If I try my very best to go back to other moments in there, there is
nothing, kind of like after having had a few too many drinks and being unable
to remember how you got home, but then having that feeling for about 3 years
of your life.

Much like stated in the post, your memory is affected by Lyme disease. You
actually still have the capacity to think complete thoughts, but after only a
few seconds your thoughts are gone.

One of the few snippets of memory that I have left, is the sudden strong
realisation that I tried my very best to remember what had happened in the
last 7 days - and the complete and utter inability to recall even one single
event over those 7 days. I wasn't even able to remember what I ate for lunch 3
hours earlier, or what I had been doing for the previous 5 minutes. I remember
getting really upset that I felt that that memory was also fading and I kept
on repeating it in my head to prevent it from disappearing. It was scary.

I am apparently fortunate enough to continue functioning well after Lyme
disease, but I can guarantee you that the experience being written in this
post is absolutely identical to the experience that I had.

It's bizarre, it's scary, but fortunately for Waldo: he won't remember a thing
anyway.

------
quark83
I created a throwaway account so it's not associated with my normal handle on
here. This post brings up something I've been wondering about, and it's
something that's really been bothering me the last few years.

I feel like I've become significantly less intelligent over time, and I can't
figure out if that's really the case, or if it's a different issue that simply
makes me feel less intelligent.

When I was in high school, everything I learned was simple -- everything was a
piece of cake. I would program my TI calculator (with a list of assembly
opcodes next to me) at the back of the class and basically ignore the lesson
and then get the highest grade on every test. Same in chemistry. Every
standardized test I took (SAT, ACT, etc.) gave results in the 99th percentile.
Same with the AMC and AIME. I graduated 1/200 in my class. I had all kinds of
interesting programming projects in my free time from age 12 to 18.

Then I went to college: a STEM school. The first semester went fine; I got all
A's. The second semester, I got my first B ever. The third semester, more B's.
Eventually a C. My final GPA ended up being 3.5, significantly lower than
anything I had been used to. I couldn't stay awake during lessons in class. I
was sleepy all the time despite getting good sleep (8-9 hours) every night. I
never skipped class, but I may as well have considering how sleepy and groggy
as I was. This had _never_ been an issue in high school. I don't ever remember
getting sleepy in class then, even if the lecture was boring.

Suddenly, new subjects became incomprehensible. The ease at which I previously
absorbed new material was gone. Nothing "clicked" anymore. I'm in graduate
school now and still nothing "clicks". I attend department seminars where
visiting professors present their research, and it may as well be alien
gibberish. I feel like I'm just faking my way through grad school at this
point. I can still manage A's and B's in classes without ever understanding
the content only because of the way the grading system's designed. Luckily, I
seemed to have retained my programming capabilities.

I can't figure out what caused this. One option is physical: perhaps something
chemically changed within my brain. Virus, physical trauma, getting older? No
idea really. The other option is environmental. In high school I only had
dial-up internet access, so anything I wanted to download, I had to _really_
want. It was an all-day ordeal to get a 3 MB file. It was almost impossible to
goof off online. Nowadays I get on the internet and just get distracted. I
can't get into side-projects like I used to be able to. I still have the
strong _desire_ that I used to, but not the motivation. I don't know where it
went; why would my personality just change for the worse like that? I almost
wonder if skimming huge amounts of information online has somehow re-trained
my brain to not absorb knowledge anymore.

Has this happened to anyone else? Have you figured out a way to reverse the
process? I would love more than anything to have the incredible clarity with
which I used to understand new subjects rather than this fuzzy, muddy feeling
with everything I try to learn.

~~~
Sagat
I have a similar story to yours although I doubt I was as smart. In high
school I could get the best grades in my class without much effort and got a
near perfect score in the baccalaureate. Nothing to brag about though, since I
then proceeded to drop out of law school in my second year. I completely lost
the will to work and ended up with humiliatingly low grades before finally
breaking down and starting afresh.

Like you I got into the habit of getting distracted online. Failing university
was a sufficiently strong blow to my ego that I finally "woke up" and
attempted to analyze what went wrong in my life: I came to the conclusion that
my addiction to random bullshit on the internet had completely eaten my mind.
The constant procrastination had eventually caused me to sink into depression,
thus worsening the cycle even more. It got so bad I was unable to concentrate
for more than 2 hours on the same subject. By contrast I used to read several
books a week on various subjects.

I decided to drastically change my lifestyle. I cut away all non-essential
internet use and went cold turkey. I forced myself to read again, at least 2
hours per day. I took on a strict diet and exercise regime. I took every
opportunity to meet new people and see my friends I could find. I reduced my
consumption of media (especially fiction). I practiced meditation. I distanced
myself from the screen.

The point of this rambling post? It worked. I slowly but surely got back to my
previous levels of intellectual involvement and curiosity about the world. I
do go on Hacker News once in a while but it's an occasional small treat after
I've worked hard. I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor and diagnose your
life based on a single post, but I think you should at least try to do the
same thing I did. At least consider cutting out the non-essential internet.
You have nothing to lose. Keep in mind that it's a long term goal.

tl;dr It's possible to reverse the process

~~~
quark83
Thanks! I appreciate the detailed post you've written. The more I think about
it, the more my case sounds like yours. I'm now thinking it's less "something
happened to my brain" and more "my habits caused this problem". I'll attempt
the same thing you've done to see how it goes.

You just quit procrastinating cold-turkey though? How did you force yourself
to read? Every time I pull out a textbook at a time that isn't the night
before a test or HW assignment I fall asleep reading it or end up staring at
the wall instead.

Meditation is an interesting idea... I've never given that a try before.

~~~
WA
It's the same for me that I fall asleep if I do something I'm either
unmovitated to do or that is above my level.

I think you have to admit first that you might be not as smart as you think
you are. Highschool was easy. I don't want to sound arrogant, but the American
high school is considered a joke in Europe. Not so much university. They are
really good and can be equally tough. So maybe you simply experienced and
continue to experience your current limit.

You need to sit down just as everyone else and study for real.

How to do it:

If you have trouble getting started at all, convince yourself that you'll do
ony one page or so. Mostly, you can do more.

Try the pomodoro technique. Set a timer to 25 minutes and then take 5 minutes
break. This has two effects: a) The chunk of work doesn't seem to be so much.
b) You get a break before you are exhausted. If 25 minutes is too hard, adjust
to 15.

Divide the textbook in extremely small chunks you need to understand and are
able to understand. This might take a long time, but I typically fall asleep
if I don't even get an idea where to start. You have to start somewhere and it
should be very small.

And if nothing helps: Go back to the basics or get a different textbook that
works better for you.

~~~
daviangel
Yup try the "tomato" it worked for me!

The method enables you to concentrate without distractions, and encourages
deep thinking, which is what you need to be able to do to operate at a very
high mental level.

------
3327
Hey. I Actually agree with your article because I HAD lyme 1 month ago too.
And felt the same. You are probably on the 14 day Doxy. After it you start to
feel better pretty quickly. I went to a great infectious disease doc (if you
are in Seattle). You probably tripped out like me and went reading about it on
the internet for hours if not days. 99% of lymeand post lyme disease is BS. No
such thing as post lyme disorder. Its highly sensitive to doxy . I caught mine
a month after and 2nd day of doxy started feeling better.

But man such a strange feeling. Depression was a first for me i don't know if
its from the toxins that inhibit certain stuff or psychological but its
strange. Anyway get well soon and don't believe the lyme stuff you read I can
assure you. You reach 100%. Just don't have unprotected sex as that shit is
real depression material !

------
k7gl32
Do other people feel their cognitive abilities diminishing as they age?

I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety
disorder, panic disorder, ADHD-Inattentive type, and probably other things
that I can't remember right now. I think most of these diagnoses (panic
disorder being the only viscerally clear one) are to explain the disparity
between my IQ scores throughout the years and my lack of performance in school
and life in general. Which, by the way, I know is the dead-horse of tropes for
internet comments...

As a result of these diagnoses I've taken several classes of medications and
several instances within each class.

SSRI/(S)NRIs: Prozac, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Strattera, probably
others

Stimulants: Adderall (XR), Ritalin

Benzodiazepines: Klonopin, Xanax, Ativan

Weird hypnotic sleep drugs: Ambien, Lunesta

I feel like there is a very complex matrix of factors that have contributed to
the way I am now (I used to be a pretty normal, social, outgoing, intelligent,
excited kid who got bad grades, now I'm kind of a weird dude) and I can't
determine the cause. If the cause is depression, I'd like to take the right
medication to help with that. If the cause is medication, I'd like to stop
taking medication. If this 'slowing down' feeling is something other people my
age (25) feel, then maybe I don't need to make a big deal about it. The way
the author described his neurotypical self reminds me of who I was 13 years
ago before that first diagnosis and that first prescription. I want to feel
that clarity again.

Right now I feel like I'm brute-forcing through life. And it's working. But I
feel about 1/10th the joy/passion I had when I was a kid. Which is a symptom
of depression. So I take drugs. That make me feel slow, and prevent me from
being deeply depressed. Which might not even happen. I am stuck in a strange
loop, but slowly mining my way out.

~~~
Scienz
At 29 I've also become somewhat paranoid about age-related cognitive decline.
From what little I've looked into it, to the extent you go by the fluid and
crystallized intelligence dichotomy, fluid tends to peak at around 25 and
crystallized peaks somewhere in the 35-55 range (I've heard multiple numbers
from different sources), with major decline beginning around 65. Brain mass
also peaks around 25 and loses around 2 grams per year thereafter. The
intelligence loss seems to be exponential with age - you'll drop a lot faster
between 60 and 70 than you will between 30 and 40. The different peaks for
fluid versus crystallized probably affect life outcomes differently depending
on lifestyle and profession, e.g. the saying I used to hear from my physics
professors that "If you haven't done anything by 30, you never will," or the
Primer quote, "What they do with engineers when they turn 40? They take them
out back and shoot 'em." On the other hand fields requiring vast recall of
domain knowledge like law or medicine probably favor the older crowd that have
had decades more time to accumulate, even if they lack the high-level abstract
problem solving stuff required more in e.g. physics or math.

Some relevant links on all that: [http://www.highiqpro.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/03/cognitiv...](http://www.highiqpro.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/03/cognitive-aging11.png)
[http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/01/f...](http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/01/fluid-and-crystalized-intelligence3.png)
[http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-
fd832e64253819688a4eaaa...](http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-
fd832e64253819688a4eaaaf25eac62b)

There's also work on reversing cognitive decline with stem cell therapies:
[http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v4/n3/full/100446.html](http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v4/n3/full/100446.html)

------
Lagged2Death
This is like a Harvard student who drove down into the ghetto one time to buy
pot. And now he won't shut up about what it was like comin' up in the 'hood.

~~~
knowtheory
That is an entirely inaccurate characterization of Waldo's entire point.

Waldo's trying to describe a state of being. You can argue about whether Waldo
_really_ knows what long term depression is _really_ like, but that's separate
from learning what it feels like to experience a set of symptoms which he has
never previously fallen victim to.

He's not claiming to be an authority or an expert, or to even claim that this
some how makes him special. He's claiming that he understands depression
better now, having experienced it.

------
rbellio
Though the article isn't pointedly about ticks and Lyme disease, I want to
share some advice on them, as the disease can be truly debilitating and have
long term consequences.

If you find yourself frequently outside where ticks are prevalent, invest in a
permethrin based repellent that can be applied to your clothing. Ensure that
you wear pants and long sleeve shirts whenever possible. I've been using a
permethrin based clothing spray for years and have not found a single tick on
me in that time. I can personally recommend this brand:
[http://www.sawyer.com/permFAQ.html](http://www.sawyer.com/permFAQ.html)

------
jessaustin
At the very least, TFA has come to find out what it's like to exhibit dumb,
pleonastic writing style. "I have found out..." would be more idiomatic and
sensible. "I found out..." would be better in most contexts, but tense is due
more to authorial taste so I could have ignored that. Actually for a title
that entire verb phrase could be omitted: "What it's like to be dumb" or "What
being dumb is like". A good editor would whittle that down to "Being dumb",
but then the polished title would contradict the claims of the rest of the
piece, so perhaps the current title is best.

------
PeterisP
If you state that you feel dumb(er), can this be measured quantitatively in
any way? Can you re-take some tests where you know previous results to see if
there are significant differences?

The described experience makes it hard to distinguish between reduced
intelligence as such, versus disbalances in motivational/emotional systems
that affect what you[r brain] choose to do, instead of the ability of what you
can do. Both can be limiting, but in very different ways.

------
pluti34
I've had a similar experience due to coming down with a condition called
occipital neuralgia (essentially compressed and/or damaged nerves in the
scalp). I was in a car wreck several years ago, and it has been a nightmare
ever since.

The main symptom for me is the continual feeling of pressure in the back of
the head, and a bit of tenderness over the greater occipital nerves. I can
still program somewhat effectively, but my short term memory is horrible, and
quick-thinking is down the tubes. It's fairly similar to a mild/moderate
hangover.

I would not say that I am dumb or truly have the same experience as someone of
low IQ, but the whole experience has instilled a bit of resentment towards the
Silicon Valley mindset that every dev must be a quick-thinking, 10x wiz kid. I
am not an A-player at this point, but by putting in a few extra hours a week I
can keep up with the devs on my team, and I try to make sure my output is
somewhat on par.

Fortunately, botox has made a tremendous impact (takes pressure off the
nerves), and I'm getting surgery soon so fingers crossed I can make a solid
recovery.

------
yaddayadda
There was a course in my undergraduate college that required each student be
'handicap' for a week (e.g., blind, wheelchair-bound) for much the same
reason. I didn't take the course but everyone on campus experienced it to some
degree though peers.

In much the same way, I lost the use of my dominant arm for several months
during graduate school. I always had respect for those with lifelong physical
disabilities, but the insight I gained during that period resulted in even
more respect. During that period I had one really supportive professor. But, I
also had a second professor that I wanted to do much violence to - simply so
that he might gain much needed insight. Since I graduated, the second
professor has tried to get me to collaborate with him and I refuse to
primarily because of his lack of basic respect for others' abilities (both
disabilities and capabilities that exceed his own understanding).

------
danbmil99
Back in the day, we did this with drugs.

------
kzsee3
Why is the first comment always negative? The author of the link wrote an
article based on his experience. I find that every first comment on HN is a
tear down of the original post. The tone of every top comment seems to want to
prove the com mentor's genius over the author.

------
nathell
If there is something capable of making me drop everything and read an article
right at this very instant, then that something is using a quote from "Flowers
for Algernon" as the title.

Thanks to Waldo for sharing his being Charlie Gordon. I hope he recovers.

------
rza
He most definitely does not have depression. Saying that depression is simply
apathy and 'feeling dumb' spits in the face of those who have to deal with
_actual_ depression everyday.

------
idaniboy
Make sure your physician is evaluating and treating your Lyme. Lyme is
relatively uncommon in the Southeast US compared to the Northeast US so
physicians here are not as experienced in treating it.

I would also seek a second opinion from a neurologist if you have not already.
If you feel that you have cognitive impairment now, then the neurologist may
feel that a brain MRI is indicated. This may not affect management, but may
provide you with prognostic information.

------
ck2
I really want to make a sarcastic comment about how half of American adults
must have this disease but it sounds kinda serious so not going to make fun of
it.

~~~
jacquesm
> it sounds kinda serious

It is.

> not going to make fun of it.

Thank you for that. Lyme is a very easy to contract disease depending on where
you live and the progressive symptoms are devastating.

~~~
ck2
Best wishes to you. At least it can be cured?

I found this helpful for ignorant folks like me
[http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/](http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/)

~~~
jacquesm
> Best wishes to you.

Thank you, fortunately I don't have it myself but three of my family members
do.

> At least it can be cured?

If you catch it early enough you can get complete recovery. If you catch it a
little later you'll have symptoms lasting for months or years, if it starts to
progress you might be able to arrest it at some level or slow the progression
but it will always keep trying to get worse. And once you reach any of the
advanced stages it can not be cured, you're stuck with it for life.

------
javert
Can someone please tell me if it's possible to get permanently sick from Lyme
disease? (e.g. assume the initial systems are just a flu, get past those, and
never realize you have other problems.) Because if so, I might have it. But
that's impossible, right?

EDIT: Yes, I should ask a doctor, but given the medical situation where I
live, it is quite hard to get good advice.

~~~
hmsimha
If you didn't treat it, then from what I understand, the spirochetes are still
in your blood and brain. However, the official response of the medical
community is 'no' because they don't have enough evidence to make that claim
(from what I understand there is a lot of pressure from insurance companies to
not make this a diagnosis that would result in them potentially having to
cover years of treatment)

------
hcarvalhoalves
Being from Brazil, I didn't even knew such illness existed. Wikipedia says
it's endemic to US, Europe and south of Argentina.

The symptoms sound pretty bad if untreated. Good to know more about it to pay
attention while traveling, these endemic diseases are often hard to diagnose.

------
BetaCygni
It's still well written. I'm not sure how fast the author could churn out good
articles when he was feeling good but he is definitely not that stupid now.

------
peterarmstrong
I have come to find out what it's like to humblebrag.

------
normloman
Just the premise is smug. If you think you're smart now, and lymes has made
you dumb, you really are dumb.

We're all dumb. Lymes just made you dumber.

------
gregschlom
Related and somewhat similar stories from Quora users:
[http://www.quora.com/Intelligence/What-does-it-feel-like-
to-...](http://www.quora.com/Intelligence/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid)

------
photorized
Similar effects can be achieved by not getting enough sleep.

------
gbadman
This sounds like Spock on a binge of introspection.

------
mumbi
I've had depression my entire life and was diagnosed clinically depressed at
21. I don't think you have it, _yet_. That being said, it sucks you have
Lyme's disease. I hope you get better soon.

