
Inkscape 1.0 - Vinnl
https://inkscape.org/release/inkscape-1.0/
======
dang
This version had a major discussion 3 weeks ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22855357](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22855357),
as well as 6 months earlier:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21001969](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21001969).

It's true that this is a new announcement, but that's a distinction without a
difference for HN threads. Since this issue shows up frequently about project
announcements, I'm going to post a detailed explanation of how and why we
moderate these, with the intention of linking back to it in the future, and
maybe also from the FAQ.

When new releases of a project get submitted, the HN discussion is invariably
about the project in general. That's totally fine, there's nothing wrong with
that at all. If we're lucky, there may also be some discussion of the new
features—nothing wrong with that either. The problem arises when the same
discussions keep getting repeated. HN is for curiosity [1]. Curiosity withers
under repetition, and frontpage space is the scarcest resource the site has.

On HN, we handle this by treating submissions of the same-ish story as dupes
for a year or so, then allowing reruns after that. What decides whether a
follow-up counts as same-ish? Whether or not it contains significant new
information (SNI), meaning whether or not there is enough new information to
support an interestingly different discussion. On HN, what counts as
interesting, basically, are diffs.

That is the general rule. Now let's apply it to the special case of project
release news. What are the things the thread will discuss? The project in
general, for sure, and maybe, if we're lucky, the features in this version.
Because those things don't change a particular release goes through its life-
cycle of status updates, the status updates don't count as SNI.

If we allowed this, threads like "Foo 1.3.2 Beta 1" would be on the front page
all the time, then "Foo 1.3.2 RC 1 is out" a couple months later, and so on.
People come to HN to escape repetition—except of their favorites, of course,
which they love to see repeated. But everyone's favorites are different, so
allowing this in general would guarantee a cranky community. Since most
projects aren't your favorite, it would guarantee a cranky you as well, even
if you don't feel that way at the moment because you do like Foo.

Of course, there is ceremonial value when a release becomes official. Ideally
the discussion could wait (on HN there is no harm in waiting) until the
release was ready, and then we could all have a big thread about the release,
plus bonus rejoicing. But that won't work. For popular projects, submitters
submit the same release every time it gets a new label, and commenters who
like the project (or don't like it—that also works!) want to have a thread
each time. Since the official release comes at the end of that sequence, it's
also the most anticlimactic moment for thread purposes; that's when the odds
are highest that the release will already have been discussed. At least for
popular projects, the hivemind's preference is clear: it would rather have the
pleasure of an early peek than the joy of a feast at the end.

There's one more important aspect: in most cases, there isn't SNI when a
project goes from "Foo 1.3.2" to "Foo 1.3.3" either. If it sounds like I
already made this point, look again—I haven't, and believe me this is the sort
of distinction that users care passionately about, especially with their
favorite projects. This part doesn't apply to Inkscape 1.0, but it does to the
majority of incremental-release submissions that HN sees, and we see a ton.

The reason that "Foo 1.3.3 is out" doesn't usually count as SNI is _not_ that
it isn't significant new information for the users—and especially the
developers—of Foo. That's one reason I'm using a silly acronym: SNI! — to
convey that it's a specialized use of those words. When we say things like
"this is not significant new information, so we're treating this post as a
dupe", or even the gentlest, most watered-down and tiptoey version of that
language, there are always people who feel aggrieved on the project's behalf,
as if we're putting it down or belittling the hard work of its devs. This
explanation is for those readers.

Obviously Foo 1.3.3 being out is new, and significant too. But most of the
time, in this somewhat odd sense—looking through the specialized lens that we
need to use for HN moderation—the diff between Foo 1.3.3 and the last time Foo
came out is not enough to support an interestingly different discussion.
Especially for popular projects, commenters will flood into such a thread not
to discuss Foo's 1.3.3-ness, but rather their favorite pros and cons, likes
and dislikes, about Foo in general. There is nothing wrong with that—it's
great! But there is a problem with repeating it too often. At a certain point
"wow! cheesecake again!" becomes "i don't feel so hot right now".

The above is mostly about popular projects. For obscure projects, the
situation is usually different. Often they're lucky to get any attention at
all, for 1.3.3 or 2.15.7 or anything else. Sometimes, in fact, 2.15.7 gets
posted when the project itself has never been discussed on HN before. In such
cases, we sometimes use a reverse tactic: we'll swap out the incremental
release announcement with the project's home page and invite the community to
discuss the project in general—which is what the thread would do anyway. Those
are fun moments because they happen so rarely. HN gets the juiciest of all
diffs to sink its teeth into—the diff between nothingness and existence—and no
one is unhappy with the mods.

Previous versions of this explanation (is that ironic?) are at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22857809](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22857809)
and
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19103247](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19103247).

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
Vinnl
As a note (I think you're aware, but others might not be): that was the
release candidate, this is the final release.

Most importantly: some people back then reported performance issues on OS X.
Inkscape stated that that was a blocker for release, so presumably that's
fixed now:
[https://mastodon.art/@inkscape/103993588384088165](https://mastodon.art/@inkscape/103993588384088165)

~~~
Jare
I came here exactly for this reason - to find out details that may have
changed from RCs, and specifically for impression on the mac version, which I
would install in a heartbeat if the concerns that were blocking RC have been
eased.

We could also talk about how the servers seem flooded and what that means
about the popularity and future of Inkscape.

To see totally relevant discussions killed like this is disheartening.

~~~
dang
I hear you, and I'm sorry. I'd like it if my post upthread could at least
convince you that it is a structural consequence of how HN was designed—the
very constraints that make it good at some things make it bad at others—but
maybe that's too much to hope for.

There are past explanations of this phenomenon—not the project release issue,
but the disheartening part—at
[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20scarce&sort=byDate&type=comment)
if you or anyone cares to look.

~~~
Vinnl
Just since you took the time to update your previous comment: I think the
current situation is not that bad. People who particularly care about this
release might end up on this page anyway (e.g. because they submitted it
themselves), and can still discuss it, see the relevant links posted here, and
discuss the diff against the RC.

Thanks for the moderation work.

 __Edit: __Also, I hadn 't seen the comment update you posted the last time:

> That makes this post a duplicate by HN's rule (see [2]). I won't bury this
> one, but when this comes up again in a few weeks, let's not have a third
> thread.

I wasn't aware of this, or I wouldn't have reposted. Sorry!

~~~
dang
Actually I think the points you're making in this comment here are good ones,
so I'm glad you did post it. "Let's not have a third thread" really just means
a major thread on the front page. HN has quite a lot of non-frontpage slots :)

------
Vinnl
Release video: [https://inkscape.org/release-
video-1-0](https://inkscape.org/release-video-1-0)

Release notes:
[https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/1.0](https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/1.0)

As they mention on Mastodon:

> If the download link doesn't work, check back a little later. The files are
> being propagated across our CDN.

[https://mastodon.art/@inkscape/104111521799426605](https://mastodon.art/@inkscape/104111521799426605)

