
Metro Apps Can Only Be Distributed Through Windows Store - k-mcgrady
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_store/will-windows-8-allow-developers-to-post-metro-apps/9f28242b-4943-4ca2-bf63-d6f9b3a5b35f
======
k-mcgrady
I was surprised to read this. I assumed that Windows 8 only contained the
'desktop' to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro and
that Microsoft would deprecate the desktop in Windows 9 or 10. If they did do
that Windows would become a closed platform. With this restriction in Windows
8 Windows is seemingly more closed than OS X. Apple restricts certain features
like iCloud to App Store apps but restricting apps from using the main UI on
your OS is another matter.

~~~
y0ghur7_xxx
I think Apples long term plan is the same: make a closed ecosystem on the
Desktop exactly like the one on iOS. There is no incentive that I can see for
them to keep it open. It worked well on mobile, why not do the same on the
desktop?

But of course it's only speculation at this point.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
How will one develop apps in such an environment?

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Similarly to how you do on Windows 8 just now, I would imagine. XCode would
work fine, can compile apps, run them for debugging locally. You just can't
debug apps without getting a developer key, and that developer key would only
be valid for your machine.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
The grandparent described the environment being "exactly" like iOS. That would
mean no terminal, for example. It would mean no 3rd party dev tools that can
do much of anything (except SSH into another computer and do dev there). No
Homebrew. Web development would be impossible - all web devs would leave.

Sounds like a lot of negatives for Apple and few positives. Makes more sense
to make it difficult for common users to do the things they don't want them to
do.

~~~
y0ghur7_xxx
> The grandparent described the environment being "exactly" like iOS.

Let me make my point clearer: I was talking about the ability of downloading
and installing apps freely from the internet. What I meant was a closed
ecosystem where you can only use approved apps from the app store without the
ability to install apps from third partys.

That does not mean that you can't use the terminal or XCode (if those are
approved apps), or get a "developer license" to "unlock" your Mac.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
I don't see any benefit to them doing this. Macs are computers, used by
developers, for a variety of things, not just writing iOS apps. Increasing the
cost of very expensive Macs by another $100/year, and taking away the feeling
of ownership for those developers, is just a means of driving them away.

------
mkup
Microsoft has protected itself from the next Netscape Navigator. Now every
software vendor for Metro/WinRT is effectively running a market research for
Microsoft: what feature should be included to the next version of Windows? And
after adsorbtion of that feature, third party app can be kicked out off the MS
app store.

The golden age of Windows shareware and ISVs is coming to the end.

Or we will use Windows 7 for 20 years as we did with XP for 10 years from its
release date.

~~~
silverbax88
There are still corporations running XP and only now considering a move to
Windows 7. They ignored Vista entirely, and they will do the same with Windows
8.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
I thought this was common knowledge. Yes, they are only distributable through
the store. Yes, the only sideloading is from Visual Studio. Anyone who's spent
a little time researching Windows 8 will probably already know this.

------
homosaur
Perhaps this IS old news, but I certainly didn't understand it if it was. So
basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers can
get access to key system functionality where others are left to the "legacy"
desktop. Windows 7 will almost certainly be the final time that Windows get
installed on one of my PCs.

With Steam coming out on Linux and shockingly even Apple having a more
coherent idea about system security, I don't see a lot of reason to deal with
Windows' legacy bullcrap anymore.

~~~
recoiledsnake
> So basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers
> can get access to key system functionality where others are left to the
> "legacy" desktop

It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around with
much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs.

> shockingly even Apple having a more coherent idea about system security

How so? What has system security to do with this? If anything, malware authors
will have trouble running their malware on Windows RT tablets and in Metro.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around
with much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs."

This may be true but the majority of Windows 8 users are probably going to
want to use the new Metro interface. I've only being using the OS for a month
and it already annoys me to have to switch to the old desktop interface.
Preventing apps not distributed through the store access the new interface
isn't right. Customers will want it and developers will have little choice.
Either piss off customers or give Microsoft a cut of your sales and distribute
through them.

------
tonetheman
Pretty sure they are just doing what Apple is already doing. Apple's really
closed and locked down platform is doing great, I am sure Microsoft is wanting
to emulate them.

If you reading this post on an IPad or your iphone or your mac book pro, you
have already voted on the closed platform and how much you love it with your
wallet. So get over it.

~~~
aMacbook
Please explain how a Macbook Pro is a closed platform.

~~~
tonetheman
Well I was really talking about the App Store. OSX and Windows both are going
to have approved apps (the stuff you can get in their stores) then red headed
step child apps that you get else where.

MBP are not closed exactly but they have the same model that everyone is
bitching about for windows.

~~~
rsynnott
No, they don't. I can download and run a Cocoa app which would be much the
same as a Cocoa app I get in the app store. I can't do the same with a Metro
app.

------
silverbax88
I've read as much as I can about Windows 8, tried the preview, worked with a
Windows phone.

Honestly, I can't see Windows 8 being anything but a colossal failure on the
desktop, ala Vista. Everyone on the planet seems to be telling Microsoft to
have two OS versions, one for mobile and one for desktop, but they are not
listening. I would be seriously worried if I was a Microsoft investor, and I
say that as a guy who's built primarily C# apps for the last five years.

~~~
devindra
Well they still have two OS versions (although Windows Phone 8 now shares the
Win 8 kernel). The real question is if Microsoft's long bet on tablets and
touchscreen PCs being the future of desktops is a good one. For once, I think
Microsoft is aiming big with its OS, and that's something to be admired. It's
going to piss of techies, but it has a real shot at making tablets and hybrid
PCs more useful for everyone else.

Also, it seems pretty clear to me that Win 7 is going to stick around for a
long time, perhaps even longer than XP. That'll likely be the go-to OS for
techies and people building desktops down the line.

------
eckyptang
This is correct and very common knowledge. However traditional apps can be
linked from the store and regularly are already so no one is missing out.

~~~
omegant
How do you do that? So can still install the software you want on windows 8 or
you need to go through store each time?

~~~
luchs
You can continue to install your things just the way you did in previous
Windows versions.

~~~
eckyptang
Exactly that.

I'm genuinely surprised at some of the things people haven't quite grasped
about Windows 8. To put it simply:

Windows 8 is the same as Windows 7 but it has a new interface layer (Metro)
which replaces the start menu and adds an app store for Metro and normal apps.
Everything you did in Windows 7 is just the same bar the start button.

~~~
omegant
Thanks, This is what I thought in may when I read about windows 8. But I
feared I got everything wrong and actually every single app or soctware must
go though the store and be controlled by MS , as if it were an Iphone. By the
way we are developing an app that will be downloaded from our web. Now going
to the store would be a trouble to us...

------
wslh
Going backwards. In some way Microsoft was more open in the desktop and the
mobile (with the old windows mobile OS) than Apple.

Now all the vendors gave the opportunity to Microsoft to be more close. Now
all behave like monopolies.

~~~
lttlrck
"Now all behave like monopolies."

!?

------
jman1
Why is this surprising?

~~~
nsmartt
Does it need to be surprising?

------
electic
Please don't think this is bad. The more closed these guys get, the more of a
window they open up for Linux Operating Systems or alternatives. Developers
and consumers alike, will start taking a long hard look at their options.

------
nvrmor
This is primarily why I hope win8 fails

------
recoiledsnake
Isn't this old news? Like a year old at this point? Why did anyone think Metro
apps could be sideloaded except by enterprises?

Didn't we have long discussions on Hacker News about this very same topic from
a year?

Article from a year ago:

[http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/19/windows-metro-apps-
distrib...](http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/19/windows-metro-apps-
distribution/)

As to why they're doing it, it's simple. They want Metro to avoid headlines
like these:

[http://www.google.com/#q=android+malware&hl=en&prmd=...](http://www.google.com/#q=android+malware&hl=en&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ei=mAtnUP_xHMiP0QGdsYG4CQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoBA&fp=1&biw=1247&bih=677&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&cad=b)

Windows Store is a bit more open on things like in-app purchases(third party
payment systems allowed) and developer cut(only 25% above 25K).

~~~
sutro
Your first link from a year ago discusses how _tablet_ apps on _Windows RT_ \-
the ARM version of Win8 - will be restricted. Yes, that is old news. This
statement that Metro apps on the flagship _desktop_ version of Win 8 will also
be restricted is news to me. Regarding your second point about malware,
Microsoft is not doing this out of concern for the safety of their customers
but rather to increase their own profits and control. But for PR and anti-
trust-avoidance purposes, they will sell the loss of freedom as an increase in
safety. It's the same bogus argument that overreaching governments use.

~~~
recoiledsnake
>Your first link from a year ago discusses how tablet apps on Windows RT - the
ARM version of Win8 - will be restricted. Yes, that is old news. This
statement that Metro apps on the flagship desktop version of Win 8 will also
be restricted is news to me

Are we reading the same article here? That article explicitly states that
Windows 8 Metro apps will be Store only. I hate to quote half the article but
here it is:

>However, the company is creating a separate sets of rules for its “Metro-
style” apps — apps that are optimized for touch screen devices but able to run
on any Windows 8 machine.

>Microsoft is restricting the general distribution of Metro tablet apps —
meaning all Metro apps must be downloaded through the new Windows Store. The
only ones who get a pass on this restriction are developers and enterprise
customers.

>The distribution of traditional desktop applications will remain the same,
according to Microsoft.

>The move to force distribution of Metro apps through the Windows store is
similar to Apple’s treatment of iPhone and iPad apps

Where is Windows RT or ARM even mentioned here?

>Microsoft is not doing this out of concern for the safety of their customers
but rather to increase their own profits and control. But for PR and anti-
trust-avoidance purposes, they will sell the loss of freedom as an increase in
safety. It's the same bogus argument that overreaching governments use.

Citation needed. Anyway, this argument has gone moot in the discussions over
the iOS app store. The bird has already flown and Apple can't keep its iOS
devices in stock. That argument is a day late and a dollar short.

~~~
sutro
"Microsoft will adopt a familiar Apple policy for the _tablet_ applications on
its new Windows 8 operating system. Microsoft’s Windows 8 is the latest
operating system to adopt a walled-garden approach to _mobile_ app sales....
Microsoft is restricting the general distribution of Metro _tablet_ apps"

It's easy to read "tablet" and "mobile" in this context as "Windows RT"
especially given the up-front comparison to iOS.

"Citation needed."

Sorry, I don't have any smoking gun emails from Ballmer, just years of
observation and common sense. If you want to attribute Microsoft's motives to
pure altruism you're free to do so.

~~~
recoiledsnake
>Sorry, I don't have any smoking gun emails from Ballmer, just years of
observation and common sense. If you want to attribute Microsoft's motives to
pure altruism you're free to do so.

No, I was just wondering if a store or OS can be kept free of malware etc.
without needing all those certification rules and fees.

[http://www.shacknews.com/article/75603/steam-greenlight-
adds...](http://www.shacknews.com/article/75603/steam-greenlight-
adds-100-submission-fee)

[http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-31-valve-bans-
stea...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-31-valve-bans-steam-users-
creating-fake-greenlight-projects)

