
What the Vaio Z says about Sony's little design problem - danshapiro
http://boingboing.net/2011/11/14/what-the-vaio-z-says-about-son.html#more-129126
======
ghc
Wow, what an ignorant article. I own the previous version of this (Sony _does_
iterate...this is the 4th iteration of the Z series), and I absolutely love
it. I can't speak about the new version, but the version I have has a
fantastic keyboard with much more key travel than an Air. I wouldn't be
shocked if Sony messed up the keyboard and trackpad though. They have a
certain talent for screwing up ergonomics in the name of looks.

But really, my main issue is that this article appears to be written by
someone with an agenda and little actual knowledge. The laptop's name, for
example is the Z14, not that long string which is the model number.
Practically all laptops, even the Air, have those model numbers associated
with the specific configuration. The box for my Air has it listed on the back,
in fact.

~~~
NoPiece
If you go to the sony store, and search for "Z14" you get a bunch of camera
accessories, and no Z series laptops in the results. No laptop results on page
1 of a google search either. I have an old sony Vaio that I really liked, and
I only know how to describe by its model number: VGN-S360. I think they could
benefit from more coherent model names.

~~~
ghc
My apologies. The model is the Z21, not Z14.

A letter (or two) followed by digits denoting the series iteration is Sony's
standard naming convention. If you google "VAIO S360" or "VAIO Z12" you'll
find exactly what you want. But, if you're not looking for your model year,
you can google "VAIO S Series" or "VAIO Z Series" and get what you want.

I don't find it very hard, especially since the series names stay pretty
consistent over a long time.

------
tikhonj
When getting my new laptop, I spent some time looking at various
"ultraportable" including the MacBook Air, some Toshiba (I forget what it was
called) and the Z. I ultimately chose the Sony because it was, by a nice
margin, the nicest computer of the lot.

The screen is really awesome, it's incredibly fast and I actually really like
the touchpad. The keyboard is not great, but none of the options I physically
touched--I never saw a physical Lenovo X1; that could be good--had
particularly good keyboards. The Air's keyboard was not bad, but it had an
annoying layout with small arrow keys and an odd ordering of meta keys along
the bottom.

Overall, I am extremely pleased with this computer and would probably buy it
again, although I would also consider looking at the X1. However, an X1
configured to similar specs as the Z costs about the same and I've heard both
the screen--which is _really_ awesome on the Z--and the batter life are worse
on the Lenovo.

~~~
jinushaun
_"The Air's keyboard was not bad, but it had an annoying layout with small
arrow keys and an odd ordering of meta keys along the bottom."_

It's interesting that people cross shop MacBooks when looking at Windows PCs,
especially given the Mac's unique keyboard layout.

~~~
tikhonj
I was not looking for a "Windows PC"; I was looking for a light, fast laptop.
I wouldn't use either Windows or Mac OS unless I _really_ had to, so the
operating system doesn't really matter to me.

The only unfixable annoyance I noticed on the Mac keyboard was the arrow keys;
the rest could have been ameliorated by changing the keyboard layout a bit, I
think (unless it's somehow codified in hardware).

~~~
guylhem
Interesting. What was problematic with the arrows compared to a PC? The
inverted T is pretty standard. Do you mean the lack of home/end/pgup/pgdn ?

I could point you to solutions I use like controller mate - pretty handy to
remap.

Guylhem

~~~
tikhonj
I like it when the arrow keys are about as big as all of the other buttons. I
find it very uncomfortable to use the extra-thin keys, particularly when
playing games (which, thanks to Emacs, is where I use arrow keys most of all).

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dmboyd
> It's loaded with junkware, because paying two grand for a laptop doesn't get
> you a system that hasn't been sold to someone else.

On this topic, does anyone know of any major manufacturers who dont do this
with their consumer machines? I have had really bad experiences of late with
Dell, Toshiba and HP, to the point where they come with what is essentially
malware built in. As one example, our latest dell purchase redirects search
queries, puts a link to ebay on the desktop which comes back once deleted, and
prevents you from adding an alternative search provider to IE.

~~~
nessus42
Yes, I know of one. I'm sure you do too.

~~~
dmboyd
Yea I've heard that the Microsoft stores sell everything crapware-free, but
this doesnt help me as Microsoft stores are a US only thing

~~~
nessus42
Oops, I missed my chance for the proper witty response. I should have said:

    
    
       Think different.

------
bonesinger
I am an owner of this new Vaio Z. The laptop itself is amazing: the battery
life is excellent, good performance, high quality screen (1080p), extremely
fast (raid 0 SSDs will do that).

The specs are amazing for this 2.5 lb laptop, but it still doesn't do justice
to how disappointed I am with the keyboard. The travel distance is so
minuscule, its uncomfortable to type on. You find yourself slapping keys but
feeling like you didn't really press the key. The space bar sucks, you have to
hit it pretty hard to make it register.

The trackpad is pretty small and awful, 2-finger gestures only works 50% of
the time. I had to disable the fingerprint reader because it would activate
everytime using the touchpad (you would always hit it by mistake).

Those are literally the only 2 things I dislike about this laptop, the
keyboard and touchpad. I use a portable bluetooth mouse a lot (Razer Orochi)
which does alleviate a lot of the touch pad issues, but the keyboard is god
awful.

That said, the power media dock is a novel feature, external graphics, blu ray
and all...I haven't used it once haha. I think that's because I have a nice
custom built desktop, no reason to use the PMD.

EDIT: The keyboard is worse in my opinion in comparison to a macbook air which
I owned for a year before I sold it.

I just wanted to add on top that, I tested out a Lenovo T420 edge...quite
possibly one of the nicest keyboards I've ever typed on.

~~~
montecarl
The touchpad and keyboard on my 2009 Macbook Pro are perhaps my favorite
parts. I would have never believed that a touchpad could be as good, let alone
better than a mouse! Resizing and scrolling with gestures is amazing.

~~~
xiaomai
I have been hearing this (the apple touchpad being better than a mouse) for a
few years now. I just got my first macbook pro today and I'm hating the
touchpad (I prefer edge-scrolling and the tap-click on PC touchpads, although
I've never loved any touchpad). Am I doing something wrong or does this just
boil down to personal taste? I really don't understand how a touchpad could
ever be preferable to a mouse (the mouse-wheel is a wonderful invention).

~~~
montecarl
I think you just need time. Why edge scroll when you could use the entire
mousing surface for scrolling? I don't know why tap-click is not on by
default, but you can enable it. Also don't go changing the tracking speed or
acceleration on your trackpad either. Give it some time if it feels odd. Its
pretty much perfect.

------
cturner

        > but companies like Sony make good designs then abandon
        > them intentionally because they're blind to their own
        > good design choices. 
    

I see this pattern a lot. Situations where people trade away their strengths
by trying to mimic what's glamourous.

Here's one - look at the way that OS desktops compromise strengths in order to
be more like OSX. Microsoft was so focussed on making Windows feel more like
aqua that they compromised things where they were strong - like the way you
could get around with hotkeys, or set up items in the old start menu to be
launched by two keypresses. The gnome team had what was to me the best desktop
environment out there and have traded it away in their quest to be the poor-
man's Aqua. (Give me window switching - I hate application swiching. In what
situation would I want all of my terminals to come to the foreground in front
of the web browser I'm copying commands from??)

------
ctdonath
Power supplies. I've got a copier paper box full of Sony power supplies. Every
product they make has to have a different battery, plug, voltage, wattage,
whatever so you MUST buy a new one if break/lose it, at a princely sum
comparable to the price of the device.

Sony has 90% great, like awesome, design - then screws up the remaining 10%
with either "meh, screw the user" or "hey, dig into his wallet" wrecking the
rest. I've had two of their ultraportables, and try as I might to love them
there's just one neurotic breakdown after another; my next is a MacBook Air.

~~~
carmen
Vaio X has a standard DC barrel pot, ive powered it on anything from junk-heap
printer wall-warts to 20-cent car-adaptors to lab bench-supplies without
hassles.

other things it has over the air are half the weight owing to carbon fiber vs
aluminum and a smaller battery owing to an Atom CPU (a feature - can tell
which code is slow), and a full array of hardware ports and slots, a matte-
screen with almost 0 reflected light readable in direct sun, a fan that is off
most of the time, and GPS/3G. gma500 is main problem, but Alan Cox's driver is
getting OK enough to use

~~~
ctdonath
The Vaio X has been discontinued. The nearest equivalent to the MBA 13" I'm
contemplating is the Vaio Z, at a cost of nearly $1000 more.

Apple products have always been derided as "under-speced and over-priced", yet
customers keep voting with their wallets to the contrary. Knowing first-hand
how those Vaios tend to blow their superior specs in the oddest ways, I'll
take the Air.

------
jbarham
For my money, the best "ultraportable" around is a ThinkPad X:
<http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/x-series>

~~~
vacri
I loved the x-series, and recently got a new x201. The screen is
_phenomonally_ bad. The viewing angle is so poor that if I'm watching a movie
on it, there is _nowhere_ I can position it so that I don't get funny
colouration on the blacks. Until then, I'd had a dream run with this series.
Check your screen quality before getting an x-series...

~~~
abrowne
The X220 with the IPS option is a nice screen:

[http://www.the-
hikaku.com/pc/lenovo/ThinkPad-X220.html#displ...](http://www.the-
hikaku.com/pc/lenovo/ThinkPad-X220.html#display)

~~~
JoshTriplett
Seconded. It comes within epsilon of having a 180 degree viewing angle both
vertically and horizontally.

------
w1ntermute
> But Sony rarely iterates, even when it's onto something good.

This is very interesting, considering that one of the core philosophies of
Japanese business is _kaizen_ , or continuous improvement.

~~~
ghc
Sony does iterate...the article is just ignorant. It used three different
laptop lines to prove that Sony doesn't iterate. Walkman, Discman, PS
controller and even the Z series laptop this talks about all were extensively
iterated products. Now whether all iterations were good is another matter
entirely...

~~~
DanBC
From the article I get the impression that there were large jumps between each
version of the Z series - is that incorrect? Because, to me, iteration means
small amounts of refinement to a product. The examples you give, especially
the PlayStation controller, are excellent examples of small refinements to an
existing product.

------
zobzu
As a owner of a Z21 I can tell much of what is said in the article is just,
simply wrong and misinformed. The author most likely didn't even touch a Z21.

 _DISCLAIMER: I am using Linux full time on this laptop. Some people have
issues with the fingerprint or trackpad on Windows - theses are software
issues which aren't present on Linux._

Fan: they're not loud. It's quieter than my MacBook. In fact, I can't hear it
in a quiet room. It's only loud when running full speed; which is rare enough.
And that's not louder than the Mac.

Trackpad: it's in.. the regular spot.

Software: it's loaded with Sony stuff mostly. You can remove or reinstall if
you dislike it.

Key travel: yes, it's shorter. No I don't see the issue with it, after having
used it for quite a long while now. I switch to longer key travel keyboards
and back to the Z21 without noticing.

The rest is just "look, my iMac design didn't change in 4 years it's awesome,
changing design sucks!".

Now... let's see what the Z21 has and the others.. just plain don't.

SSD: Hello raid0 SATA3 SSDs. Have you ever reached more than 500mbyte/s
read/write? Heck, sometimes its going near the 1000mbyte/s sequential. Copying
stuff, reading has never been faster. Non-raid0 desktop computer with the
fastest SSDs are just way slower. Won't even mention Macs with their subpar
SSDs.

Screen: Hello 1920x1080 anti-glare screen. How the hell are others not all
anti-glare by default ?

CPU: Hello regular voltage i7 2620M. The air CPU suddenly look.. you know..
just not in the same range.

Heat: what heat? It's extremely well extracted on the side and the rest of the
system is at room temperature. Even under extreme load. A problem Apple didn't
really solve by the way.

Connectivity: USB? check. USB3? check. VGA out for those conferences? Check.
HDMI out /w audio? Check. Audio jack, ethernet, sdcard, lightpeak? check check
check check. Tell me when the mac book air doesn't need a bunch of adapters to
do more than USB. higher power USB for charging? Heck, check again.

Weight? Lighter than the Macbook air says enough.

Battery life? Extensible well above 10H via a laptop-wide sheet. Smart. Paris-
New York, no need to charge. Of course, the standard battery isn't a let down
either at ~5H real time use. (they're both rated 7h and 14h max as far as I
can remember, but don't quote me on that)

Now with all that, what more could there be? Oh wait.. I mentioned a lightpeak
port didn't I.. so yeah, a 600gr+ device can be added to the desk while you're
not on the move.. bundling a very decent ATI graphic card, a bluray drive, and
more ports. You can drive 4 screens at the same time, although its convenient
only up to 3. (oh noes.)

Oh and, does it run linux properly? yep.

So it's an expensive device, but considered all the above, it's pretty decent
I guess.

Finally, the actual bad, and yes, there is some bad:

\- speaker: they work, but god they're bad. they're terrible. Not a big deal,
but still, at this price... the jack is very good tho.

\- lightpeak will probably not take off, that said, its mostly used for the
side device only and serves as USB port, so who cares.

\- way the laptop sits on the desk you may sometimes find positions where its
not sitting properly, if your "desk" is not flat

~~~
podperson
You can see from the photos in the linked review that the touchpad is NOT in
"the regular spot" but offset to the right. I imagine this is fine for right-
handers. (The review also complains it is small. Can't comment, haven't used
one. The author is probably addicted to the giant touchpads Apple is putting
out these days.)

What Macbook are you finding louder than the Vaio? I have a 2010 MBP and I
can't ever recall hearing its fan, even under heavy load.

The central point of the article -- that Sony occasionally stumbles on great
design and then randomly iterates away from it for no good reason is telling.
Just consider the fact that Apple stuck with one standard connector -- however
flawed -- for the iPod since day one, while Sony hardly even manages to
release a single generation of MP3 players with common connectors.

~~~
zobzu
well, don't trust pictures. the touchpad if _of course_ centered. on all
models.

i have a MBP1, MBP 13 mid2011 and a MBA mid2011, the MBP is louder than the
vaio on average (that is I can hear the fans). The vaio is dead silent til I
compile stuff on all CPUs, then fans are loud, although not as loud as the MBP
15.

The article took the Z21 as target to make an example of "what not to do", not
a MP3 player. If it did, maybe i'd agree with it. But, it did not. And
unfortunately for him, the Z21 is actually awesome.

~~~
wazoox
Compare with the Toshiba: [http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/11/ultrabooks-
for-everyone...](http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/11/ultrabooks-for-everyone-
toshiba-joins-the-fray/?intcid=postnav)

The touchpad is noticeably NOT centered, but placed so to be under both your
thumbs with your fingers on the home row. The Macbook has a way bigger
touchpad, but it's aligned to the left of the spacebar, not to the right. I'm
quite sure that for a smaller touchpad, Toshiba got it right and Sony got it
wrong (particularly for left handed people).

------
dfc
Has the grammar/writing at boingboing deteriorated or am I comparing everyone
to Cory?

    
    
        "The trackpad's in an odd spot."
    
        "This hardly trenchant criticism, especially if you're used to island-style keys."
    
        "so successful that you can walk a store and not see a machine that doesn't have one." 
    

Is this really the level of writing that comes out of bb now?

------
stewbrew
The author lost me when I saw the image of the color mac. That device sucked.
They should have chosen a new design for improved (and quieter) ventilation
instead of sticking to the old design. That they reused the old design may
have been right from a marketing perspective but it was a PITA from a user's
perspective.

------
mike_esspe
The only real problem i had with Z-series is that the keyboard is scratching
the screen, if you carry the notebook in the backpack long enough. I just
can't understand why Sony couldn't solve this simple problem.

------
sjs
The Vaio Z is a sweet series. If I didn't use a Mac I would almost certainly
buy the Vaio Z. Last I scoped out notebooks that was the case anyway.

