
The ‘untranslatable’ Japanese phrase that predicts love - diminish
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20180103-the-untranslatable-japanese-phrase-that-predicts-love
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wccrawford
"Premonition of love". Oh, there, I translated it.

It's not untranslatable. It's just not a popular culture thing anywhere except
Japan.

Sure, it's different from "love at first sight" because you feel you _will_
love them, not that you already do.

Personally, sounds a lot like "lust" or just "interest" to me.

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byzin
I had never heard this term until I read this article, but have often thought
of a very similar feeling in the past. Maybe it's the same?

The problem is, what I'm thinking of with myself is something that I was not
consciously aware of at the time, but that definitely occurred. So I can't
relate to the idea of "I will probably fall in love with this person." Rather,
it's there's this reaction I have, that's probably some initial attraction, or
picking up on subtle cues of their attraction, or mutual attraction, that I'm
not aware of at the time.

Generally speaking, I feel like I want to impress this person a lot, and feel
kind of inferior or insufficient or something, like I want them to like me.
It's not a manipulative feeling, like I want to manipulate them, but rather a
genuine feeling of wanting to be a better person, or more attractive, in
response to them. It's almost as if my brain is trying to be sexually and
romantically attractive to a person I don't even know I'm attracted to.

However, in these situations, I would never really think anything about being
attracted to them. If someone brought it up with me, I might even think it's
absurd, and not even in a defensive way, but just in the sense that it never
ever occurred to me to be in a relationship with them. I don't think to myself
"oh that person is really attractive," or "they're the sort of person I'd like
to be with." It's something I'm really unaware of, sometimes even for months
of knowing the person. It's a very visceral, primal kind of thing.

This article seems to be describing a very similar idea, but at a later stage,
where I might be becoming aware of feelings but am not entirely sure of the
consequences of it or something.

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wccrawford
I've certainly met girls that I thought, "I could fall in love with this
person." But it wasn't a premonition, just an observation of how great they
were, and how well I thought (from a single observation) that we could fit
together.

It certainly wasn't fate for any of them, as I didn't date a single one, and
I'm quite happy with the woman that I _did_ marry.

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csa
I think there are some characteristics that will induce koi no yokan:

\- jishin ((quiet?) confidence)

\- ii kanji (feeling of good)

\- yasashii kanji (feeling of gentleness -- maybe something like "has
empathy")

\- atama ga ii (smart). This is only popular in certain circles and is more
typically valued by women in men than the other way) -- most Japanese men
seem. It to want their wives to be smarter than they are (although a small
portion do).

\- a few more?

I just want to express how difficult it was to write the above. I started in
English, but then realized that it was only accurate if I used Japanese. The
translations are rough, and they are things that strike me as fairly easy to
understand in a Japanese context for me, but less so in an English/US context
-- maybe due to a wider range of values held in the latter.

On a personal level, a woman I dated when I was younger when I lived in Japan
had koi no yokan for me. I regret not marrying her -- she knew us better than
I did.

I would love to hear other people's additions and opinions on this matter.

~~~
jhanschoo
There are words that better express the nuances of the Japanese terms:

Jishin–(self-assured-ness) ii kanji–(feels right) yasashii kanji–(nice to
someone) atama ga ii–(smart)

~~~
csa
I humbly suggest that your translations of the "kanji" terms do not to justice
to the potential range and scope of their meanings.

Jishin also has a range of interpretations that may not be identical for those
in non-Japanese contexts.

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starchild_3001
Sounds pretty superfluous to me. Somewhere between like, having a crush and
love, I don't quite see a place for "premonition of love."

Given no other culture has it (as far as mentioned), I'm tempted to believe
it's a cultural quirk or a tradition, rather than a universal phenomena.

~~~
csa
I lived in Japan for about 8 years and I have studied and worked with its
culture for many years longer.

I think you're comment is overly dismissive.

First, other cultures probably do have it, but it's just not named as a
phenomenon. I personally don't believe the nihonjinron theory. That said, the
language and culture is very linguistically and sociologically distant from
the west, so some terms don't translate naturally or easily.

Second, you will see this phenomenon in cultures and subcultures that are more
collectivist than individualistic. Most countries in the west trend towards
individualistic, while most in east Asia trend towards collectivist. Note that
how this individualism and collectivism manifests themselves is a fascinating
topic, so exceptions are easy to spot depending on the granularity that one
looks at a given culture.

Third, the Japanese concept of love can be a bit different than that in the
west. Many Japanese marriages are more like brotherly/sisterly love than
"romantic" love -- in fact I find that these marriages are often the most
stable I have ever seen (this has a lot of caveats, but I'm typing on my
phone). Other Japanese marriages are based on a principle of something like
"good enough" \-- that is, they set a reasonable bar for want they want, and
they will happily take anything above that bar. This is a pretty healthy
approach imho, as long as the bar is not regularly set too low. A lot of what
is wanted is pretty health stuff like a pleasant disposition, empathy, self-
confidence, etc. I think people in other cultures wan this, too, and in many
situations they can and do get it. That said, sometimes other competing values
in the west get in the way of otherwise healthy relationships or marriages
from developing.

Anyway, i encourage you to look into this more. It's a fascinating topic, and
it's not nihinjinron propanda, imho.

~~~
starchild_3001
Arigato, for the thoughtful reply!

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wodenokoto
A good start would be to look at the word written in Japanese.

恋の予感

恋 is love

予, from 予約 meaning reservation/plan

感, from 感じ meaning feeling.

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laretluval
I wouldn't take advice from the Japanese on relationships.

[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/01/16/national/media-...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/01/16/national/media-
national/japans-tribe-of-lonely-people-continues-to-grow/)

~~~
hulkisdumb
I don't think this article had advice per say on relationships, just a shallow
shallow glimpse into what they view as love and the process of getting into it

~~~
doug1001
indeed, and perhaps practical insight into how a culture different from one's
own, thinks

"a word [or phrase] is the skin of a living thought"\--not sure who said this,
i think it was Oliver Wendall Holmes

