

So what is a designer? - ssclafani
http://helloform.com/blog/2010/11/so-what-is-a-designer/

======
rorymarinich
I like — and by "like" I mean "am vaguely unhappy" — that this post and most
posts like it are written by a person or people whose idea of web design is
slapping a light color on another light color, adding padding, and then @font-
facing in something that looks vaguely elegant. Is this design, meeting
priorities in the simplest and most boring way imaginable? Is design simply
matching proper lineheight to a fontsize, declaring it readable, and calling
it a day? Is design making a vaguely pretty blog without also applying serious
thought to what the contents of that blog will be?

When was the last time you saw Jon Hicks or Elliot Jay Stocks or Jeff Zeldman
or Shaun Inman write vapid entries like this about the definition of designer?
When do the designers at Twitter or Tumblr write entries about how they define
the word "design"? They don't, because they know that talking about words and
positions and statuses like they mean something is silly. Words are what we
make of them. They're especially dolled up by people who don't have any toys
to play with _but_ words.

Designers can _be_ anything and _do_ anything. Same thing with "advertisers"
and "artists" and "engineers" and "rockstars" and whatever other terms people
decide to throw about themselves. Designers can write. Engineers can build web
sites.

EDIT: I see that the guy who wrote this post is on HN responding. Fred, I hope
you can forgive my irritability and frustration — I really don't mean this as
a jab at you. But I'm bothered that you try and define design in the basest
terms — "a designer does X, Y, and Z" — and refuse to discuss the goals that
design can achieve. You're talking about design like the whole point is to
make a company a quick buck. I know a fuck of a lot of designers who'd really
hate their jobs if that was all they were doing.

~~~
fredoliveira
Valid points - although I certainly didn't expect my words to be taken at face
value and judged by the layout of the site itself, which I decided should be
as simple as it could. My work is not this blog, I am not a writer, so when I
write, I keep things simple (much like I like them when I read). Also,
sometimes I'm just lazy when working for myself :-)

I appreciate that you named a few people I'm friends with and whose work I
respect. I also know they're not writing pieces like this - which I see as a
problem. I do think awareness to the shifting role of the designer is
necessary at this point. I've been in this industry for over 10 years now and
design and designers are still undefined. Years ago I used to joke that
everyone is a designer. Now that I'm taking less of an engineering (and
design) role in companies and more into investing/advisory, I feel
entrepreneurs and designers SHOULD be aware of what the market needs (and will
expect soon)

To answer your main point, which is that I didn't say what design should
achieve. I didn't indeed - not in this post (check the previous posts for
that). I am CERTAINLY (and this is where we'll disagree on the interpretation
of my words) not saying design is a way to make companies a quick buck - it
_is_ a differentiating factor in the success at startups (and I've seen quite
a few in my work, trust me). I would _really_ hate my job if that was all I
was doing. My other posts may be more interesting if you're looking for
actionable stuff.

~~~
rorymarinich
Fair enough. :-)

 _I also know they're not writing pieces like this - which I see as a problem.
I do think awareness to the shifting role of the designer is necessary at this
point._

But I still don't agree with this. If anything, I think we need more designers
to step up and say "The idea of a 'designer' is dead. Stop pretending like
it's possible to be a professional in this day and age; we're all amateurs of
differing degrees. There's more to learn than you'll ever be able to learn, so
all that matters is that you learn the things you care about learning. Stop
wasting time defining things, separating them into canons and non-canons,
pretending like success necessarily defines designers or adds an extra meaning
to their work."

I'm primarily studying advertising right now — though it's certainly not my
only or even primary interest — and one thing that attracts me to the study is
that the top advertisers on the planet have been saying this for a decade.
Agencies like Wieden+Kennedy and the Barbarian Group turn out some work that's
so beyond the kin of what we recognize as advertising that it forces you to
acknowledge that the old definitions have been thrown out the window,
regardless of whether some people insist they're still there.

Design hasn't gotten there yet: It's a more conservative field than
advertising. (I mean, so is everything. That's the whole idea of being in
advertising.) Even the people I just named tend to be more conservative with
their designs than the half-generation following them is going to be. Of all
the ones I named I think only Inman and the Twitter team are really doing
something new, and even they aren't off-the-walls crazy. Not that there's
anything bad with that.

But certainly one of the reasons I'm not primarily a designer is that it's one
of the few artistic fields whose education focuses on old tried-and-true
standards rather than on the crazy things that happened last week or yesterday
or earlier today. A whole lot of design feels appallingly stagnant.

(I'd love to talk this with you more in-depth, by the way — would you mind if
I shot you an email?)

~~~
fredoliveira
Your second (technically, third) paragraph won me over - you are absolutely
right :-) That needs a more prominent place to live than a comment here at HN
- people need to read it.

I don't mind you shooting me an email - not at all. I'm swamped with email,
however, so I may take a bit to get back to you. But I definitely will.

------
jbrennan
Design has never been about using Photoshop. This isn't a "2010 thing". Design
is no more about Photoshop than it is pen, paper, or pixel. If you believe any
different, you're deluding yourself.

I know how to use Photoshop and Illustrator, but would not consider myself a
designer. The tools don't make the designer.

Design is about communication. That's all it's ever been and all it ever will
be about (a user interface is a communication to the user how to interact with
your product/idea).

~~~
gigawatt
I would say design is about problem solving more than straight communication.
Here's a great talk from Michael Bierut that kind of touches on what a
designer is: [http://the99percent.com/videos/6056/michael-
bierut-5-secrets...](http://the99percent.com/videos/6056/michael-
bierut-5-secrets-from-86-notebooks)

~~~
derefr
I think it could be said that "solving a problem for someone other than
yourself" is semantically equivalent to "communicating with someone."

~~~
gigawatt
Possibly, but just saying "communication" doesn't get across the fact that
designers are always working within a myriad of constraints.

~~~
funthree
Agreed... the previous comment goes to far. he might not have meant it to come
across that way though. "Communication" is probably too general.

Design might be about communicating the experience to the user, but it is
still about designing that experience in the first place. When you are at your
computer mocking up your amazing designs, are you "communicating"

------
nborgo
I just watched Frank Chimero's talk at Build. He mentions his search for what
a designer is. It's a pretty great talk. Chimero puts out some incredible work
and his thoughts on design are hardly about the "design" most people think of.

<http://vimeo.com/17084347>

 _The designer you want isn’t the guy that just knows photoshop and delivers
.psd files (or the html-illuminated designer that delivers html+css)._

Are you suggesting that this person was ever a designer? As if the definition
has shifted in the past few years? I don't think that person should have ever
been considered a designer. It seems like the internet came up behind what
design really is and shook it around for a while. Now the dust starts to
settle.

Or maybe not. The guy who can throw together a PSD and the people who hire him
aren't going anywhere until our thoughts on design spread outside of the
design community. We're kind of insular, aren't we?

------
wallflower
I'm not a designer or even a graphic artist. I see tons of tutorials on 'How
to do Photoshop technique X' but I think they are teaching how to do
something, not the understanding you need to be a designer. Being a carpenter
is not about the tools. And, even if you are a craftsman, it is about the
quality tools you employ. From my brief foray into furniture making a while
ago, good woodworkers know how to adjust for mistakes - they know if you get
to step 25 and you can't proceed - how to change course. It's not going to be
perfect, shim stuff up.

Dieter Rams' 10 principles of Good Design

<http://www.vitsoe.com/en/gb/about/dieterrams/gooddesign>

------
RoyG
Here is an example of what this kind of thinking leads to:

Craigslist SF: Web Designer/Front-End Guru Intern

• Demonstrable years experience creating consumer web/mobile applications •
Masterful command of the Adobe Creative Suite: Photoshop, Illustrator •
Sophisticated knowledge of HTML, XHTML, CSS • Experience with JavaScript,
AJAX, and a JavaScript framework such as jQuery, MooTools, etc • Knowledge of
browser compatibility issues and web standards • Embrace the practice of rapid
prototyping, and working in a fast-paced environment where constant change is
the norm and the bar for performance is set high. __Sense of humor and a
positive attitude are non-negotiable. Brownie points for: \- Advanced Flash
skills \- Illustration \- Experience with mobile application design

//

Guru Intern = ¡LOL!

This is from Formative Labs, veteran entrepreneurs, backed by blue chip
angels, yet...they don't see the need to actually pay anything for the task of
doing the actual design work. (it dangles the plastic carrot of 'it could
easily turn into a full-time job,' presumably meaning it's a full-time job to
start, but they might decide to pay...someday.)

//

Again, I don't totally disagree with the premise of tfa, but it's just to
closely linked to the penurious thinking behind getting a design 'guru
intern.'

------
RoyG
I don't know the author's work, but I do know that this vision is nothing new,
and it's often why a startup, or many other well-meaning businesses think all
they really need is a design intern. It also points toward the old trope of
'I'm a television expert, because I watch a lot of tv.' (Mr. Olivera, I don't
think you hold this position, however, it is on the same spectrum, imo)

Again, it does work, but design is relegated to being 'adequate' rather than
being a potential source of innovation and differentiation. It plays to this
crowd, but that doesn't mean it's right – kind of like going into a design
forum and saying that your developers don't need a CS degree, because
everything is about frameworks these days.

It reinforces the old trope that designers just make graphics, wireframes,
flows, etc. while the programmers do the 'real work' of making it live. A
company or startup can get away with a 'functional' designer as described in
the post, but it removes design as a differentiator or potential source of
innovation. It's true that almost anybody can mock up a landing page and mini-
site, but that is a supremely limited conception of a designer.

------
quanticle
Am I the only one who's thinking, "If he's really a designer, he's got awfully
poor taste in fonts?" Its because I'm seeing this:
<http://imgur.com/gGrVm.jpg>

That font would be fine on a page of paper but seeing it on a screen just
hurts my eyes.

------
badmash69
From my perspective, the question is more of how would you hire the right
designer to turn an application from an eyesore to a polished professional
look ? We are never going to meet , so how does one go about separating true
designers from PSD/HTML hacks when one encounters them on Elance. What
question do you ask ? what do you look for in the portfolio ? And of course
--- by what formula do you divine how much to pay (this one is a big issue for
all tech. bootstrapped start ups)? And is Elance the right place to find them
?

~~~
rorymarinich
"The right place to find a designer," goes the adage, "is wherever the
designer happens to be." Frustratingly, there is no official hub where every
designer goes, so you have to look in a lot of places. Elance has some
talented people, but it doesn't have all the people you should be looking for.

When you're looking for a designer, the rule is you try to find somebody who
makes things you like looking at first. That's the most important part.
Looking through their portfolio, then, you're trying to see the extent of
their prowess. Do they rely on the same design tricks with every single layout
they make (gradients, pretty buttons, slidy things), or are they making sure
each web site does what it's supposed to do? Have they got any subtlety of
understanding what a web site's needs are, or are they designing a bunch of
things that look the same no matter what they're meant to be?

Then you talk to them. See if they "get" what you're talking about. Don't plan
your questions in advance — conversations work better than interviews. Do they
intuit your needs? If you have to clarify something that at first isn't clear,
do they catch on to where you're going? You want somebody who's going to make
the web site you want to make.

As for price: Offer what you can afford, and see if they'll take it. With
designers, you never know. My team has taken $200 contracts because the work
was simple enough and we liked the team offering. We've done freelance work
because we liked the cause or liked the challenge and had an opening in our
schedule.

The best way to find designers is to stick to people who've made work you
like, or people you know, or people who've said interesting things, and
contact them directly. Sort of like how directors stick to their favorite
actors and cinematographers or, if they don't have any, they ask their friends
to help out. Keep it personal. Personal does better work for you.

(If you're not speaking hypothetically, by the way, feel free to write me —
we're open again for business starting Thursday. [/selfpromotion])

~~~
badmash69
I will. Is the email listed under HN profile correct ?

~~~
rorymarinich
Yep!

------
kaylarose
_"He’s the guy that knows how to approach customers, figures out what they
want ..., how to collect and analyze statistics, comes up with success metrics
..., design the right experience to meet business goals ..."_

Perhaps a better title for this article would be "What _is_ a internet
marketing consultant".

This post screams "I'm not really a designer, but am really good at managing
designers and talking about design to other non-designers".

------
lwhi
Graphic design is 'clear thinking, made visual'.

The best graphic designers are problem solvers; closer to visual engineers,
than they are to decorators.

~~~
derefr
My personal gestalt of the word "design", such as it is, is that it is the
second step of the creative/problem-solving process: to come up with good
solutions, you first generate novel connections between concepts (brainstorm);
and then evaluate those concepts, and sort them on, how well they solve the
problem, and prune the ones that sort "badly" (design.) You then connect
together the ones that sort well (brainstorm again), and prune those, and so
on. When someone says that a product "lacks design," it means the bad ideas
have not been pruned from it. Good design is minimalist, because it has been
pruned incessantly. And so on.

------
kingsidharth
The blogger forgot to mention that designer is communication artist &
scientist.

Designers build (design) communication. Not .psds or html/css

~~~
fredoliveira
I did indeed - thanks for the reminder! But I also believe that not just
designers but anyone who wants to succeed in this industry needs to be a great
communicator. It is also a skill most people don't seem to value.

~~~
kingsidharth
Indeed. If you can't communicate. It's a dead end.

But speaking of designers, they are also scientist. They just don't
communicate what they want to but hello loads of other things.

Visual communication amuses me no end. That's why I'm a designer - and that's
why, IMO, every designer is a designer.

------
nxgui
So much wasted time on talk. Blogging. Blabbing. Socializing:))) Do your job,
with passion and deep knowledge. That's enough.

