
Uber CEO to take leave - lyonlim
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/uber-ceo-to-take-leave-diminished-role-after-workplace-scandals
======
PatrickAuld
Culture comes from the top and Uber's is pretty rotten.

I did an interview there this year and it was the most aggressive questioning
I've ever had. Two of 5 interviewers were really in my face while architecting
systems; it was bizarre and I almost walked out. Nothing compared to the
'cultural' interview where there gave me an example of them knowingly breaking
the law because "they knew they were right" and then asked if I had a similar
work experience I could describe. I told them I have never knowingly or even
likely unknowingly broken the law at a job.

I was trying to use them to counter offer another company but in the end they
never returned my calls or contacted me to say if I got the job or not.

~~~
pavlov
_"... the 'cultural' interview where there gave me an example of them
knowingly breaking the law because "they knew they were right" and then asked
if I had a similar work experience"_

Incredible. Isn't this how mafia organizations hire?

I don't know if this interview method would expose Uber to liability under
organized crime laws, but maybe it should.

~~~
PatrickAuld
Having sat through it (but not having experience in law) I don't believe it
would.

I'm sure the interviewer and the rest of Uber would say they didn't break the
law; only that they enabled and took maybe encouraged others to.

~~~
cat199
Not a lawyer, but.. If they admitted this much I'm pretty sure that would
count under RICO. After all, mafia bosses never _actually_ kill anyone or sell
drugs.. they only 'enable' and 'encourage' others to..

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act)

"The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly referred to
as the RICO Act or simply RICO, is a United States federal law that provides
for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed
as part of an ongoing criminal organization. The RICO Act focuses specifically
on racketeering, and it allows the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the
crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them in doing, closing a
perceived loophole that allowed a person who instructed someone else to, for
example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because he did not actually
commit the crime personally.[1]"

------
dvt
I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your
typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can
be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes
exploitative.

But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup
in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows
every rule in the startup book to a tee. Look, we can't have it both ways,
guys. The recent stuff about Travis has been downright witch-hunty. I mean,
every single article about the "leaked" memo was headlined as "You can have
sex with your coworkers -- if..." I mean, come on.

There was literally nothing wrong with the email, but every single paper
covered it in some weird passive-aggressive way. Same with the previous story
where TK gets in the altercation with the Uber driver on video. Travis was
(yet again) 100% in the right there, but everyone spun it like he was being
some kind of asshole, when the driver blindsided _him_.

To be honest, I'm no Travis Kalanik fanboy (in spite of sharing the same alma
mater), but the guy obviously knows what he's doing. He found, by accident or
not, a market desperately in need of disruption and absolutely nailed it. Uber
is a cultural phenomenon that arguably has more longevity than something like
Facebook.

I just think he's been treated unfairly because of his playboy flair, but he's
actually a pretty smart, ruthless business leader. Even this story tries hard
to dehumanize him (cut him some slack; his mom just passed away). I don't
really understand why.

~~~
barleyworth
> There was literally nothing wrong with the email

There were at least two things wrong with the email, from my perspective as a
guy who's been around plenty of benign bro culture.

1\. Explicitly mentioning "sex" as opposed to "relationship" or "dating", and
talking about it so casually, sets a very aggressive tone. 20-something guys
with lots of hormones will definitely hear that tone and push hard for sex
during the trip (the implication is that there will be lots of it, and nobody
wants to be left out). Females reading this surely know that they'll receive
lots of attention and advances during the trip, whether they want it or not –
even if you assume that the guys will be asking for consent, it's still
uncomfortable for those who want to be professional and avoid work
relationships.

2\. "Yes, that means that Travis will be celibate on this trip. #CEOLife
#FML." Implication there is that there are many people on the team that the
Travis wants to sleep with. If you're a female subordinate of the CEO whom he
speaks with somewhat flirtily, you can infer that he's thinking "FML, I wish I
could sleep with her".

~~~
dvt
> ... mentioning "sex" as opposed to "relationship" or "dating" ...

Sex is a natural human activity. People fuck all the time. People especially
fuck at parties where there's alcohol involved.

> ... even if you assume that the guys will be asking for consent ...

Uh, what? The entire _point_ was to ask for consent. I can't speak to your
other hypothesizing about tone, or what 20-something guys might or might not
do.

> ... there are many people on the team that the Travis wants to sleep with
> ...

Not sure where you're getting "many." Regardless, Travis probably wants to
sleep with some of his employees, but he's leading by example and not
pursuing. Again, I can't speak to your mental gymnastics as to what an
employee might infer or not.

I can only read what's in the email.

~~~
sidlls
That something can occur has only superficial relation to whether it ought to
be to be discussed in a given setting.

Your comment reads as if you have little understanding of how women are
treated in our culture.

~~~
dvt
> That something can occur has only superficial relation to whether it ought
> to be to be discussed in a given setting.

Given the setting (an alcohol-filled after-work work party), I fundamentally
disagree.

> Your comment reads as if you have little understanding of how women are
> treated in our culture.

My comment didn't mention women, men, or anything in between, because, hey,
men sometimes have sex with men! You'll notice that Travis' email didn't
mention women either.

Since I love channeling my inner Scalia, I'm just going to say that, in
general, you're doing yourself a disservice by not being a textualist. With
that said, I'm not going to be baited into defending a straw man, many years
of philosophy trained me well :)

~~~
sidlls
"inner Scalia"? "Straw man?"

You're being dismissive and aggressive to what purpose?

~~~
dvt
"Inner Scalia" was a joke because you're reading too much into what I said and
Scalia was, famously, a staunch textualist.

And your straw man is this: "Your comment reads as if you have little
understanding of how women are treated in our culture."

------
mothers
One of his parents died and the other was severely injured, no? Who _wouldn
't_ take leave under those circumstances?

~~~
zoomzippity
Buried at the very very bottom of the article as a footnote.

Glossing over the tragedy of unexpectedly losing one's mother and almost
losing One's father. The media reporting on Uber absolutely disgusts me and
demonstrates a culture far more toxic than anything I've heard about Uber.

My bet is that the media doesn't make public any email from Travis about this
because it will likely show how the media is grossly misrepresenting things.

FWIW How people read online: why you won't finish this article.

[http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/06/...](http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/06/how_people_read_online_why_you_won_t_finish_this_article.html)

~~~
bjl
So Greyball was fake? How about their Hell program? Or the fact that one of
their executives illegally acquired a rape victims medical reports and
circulated them around the office?

Uber has continuously demonstrated a total disregard for both the law and
common decency. They lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

~~~
wavefunction
Kalanick was aware and had seen the rape victim's health records and
apparently it was an attempt (by Emil?) to figure out how to discredit the
victim and her accusations.

These are horrific people and while I sympathize with Kalanick over the loss
of his mother and his father's situation, I do not wish him any professional
success.

~~~
mst
My position here is "I am entirely capable of hating Kalanick _and_ the
reporting about Kalanick at the same time".

------
exogeny
Uber clearly has massive issue internally so far as culture; while it's not as
large of a problem as the obvious economic and labor issues of having a non-
automated fleet, it's giving up a wicked stink that is causing talented
employees to flee. That is a very difficult spiral to get out of.

I'm not sure what TK leaving does to stem that, but obviously I'm sure the
decision is partly, if not mostly due to the tragedy involving his family. On
that front, I wish him peace but on everything else, he's been behind the
wheel (heh) of what appears to be a pretty toxic company, both in terms of
culture and the balance sheet.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> I'm not sure what TK leaving does to stem that

Matt Levine at Bloomberg explained the benefit of Uber getting itself in order
while TK is on leave:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-12/mortgages...](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-12/mortgages-
traders-and-fiduciaries)

"Doesn't it seem like a great idea? Everyone understands that Uber needs some
change, needs some adults in the room to rein in Kalanick. But it's hard to
find someone who wants to waltz in, shake Kalanick's hand, and say "hi, I'm
your adult." Presumably Kalanick would give that person a wedgie and retire to
his room to sulk. But what if Kalanick weren't there? What if Kalanick took a
few months off, Uber hired some adults, they set to work doing adult things,
and then by the time Kalanick got back Uber was a well-oiled non-controversial
profit-making (why not?) machine? He'd walk in, refreshed and ready to go, and
say "hey guys, let's write a sex-party memo." And the COO would say "no that
is not appropriate," and the general counsel would agree, and the head of
human resources would give him a stern talking-to, and they'd all have each
others' backs and the support of the board. The central problem with rebooting
Uber's culture is that the culture comes from Kalanick, and he is the boss;
the central problems with getting rid of Kalanick are (1) he has super-voting
shares and a pretty good lock on the board and (2) he is the visionary behind
Uber and might actually be necessary to its success. But getting rid of
Kalanick temporarily and voluntarily might give the company time to fix itself
and bring Kalanick back as a regular CEO, ensconced in a regular structure of
regular corporate behavior."

~~~
exogeny
I was prefacing it more in terms of the trickle-down effect; literally
thousands of people have been hired into a culture that was mandated by
Kalanick. (See PatrickAuld's post on this thread.) Just because he goes away
doesn't mean that they all do; if anything, they might view what's happening
to Travis as unnecessary, or worse, unfair.

Ergo, there's a ton of timebombs ticking away all over that place. Very
possible the irreversible damage has already been done.

~~~
toomuchtodo
If leadership is replaced and strengthened, the rest of the corporate
structure will fall in line or be terminated. Culture comes from the top.

~~~
jacquesm
In theory, yes. In practice, that takes time and probably more time than they
have. If you hire this many people into a culture where 'x' was ok last week
and off the table this week you end up with the same kind of situation that an
incoming government deals with: the civil servants have not changed.

------
booleanbetrayal
Travis Kalanick is not being stripped of several of his responsibilities
because his mother died.

~~~
golbez
yep. this is the end of the convo. people trying to say "his mom died" is the
reason he's built a toxic culture probably have no real attachment to how
leaders respond to difficult situaitons.

~~~
disgruntledphd2
So, its not really related.

Travis could be (insert inappropriate Godwin's law reference here), but his
_mom_ just died. We should cut him some slack for that, at least (do unto
others etc).

That's doesn't excuse Uber, but it also doesn't excuse Bloomberg burying the
lede like that.

------
moomin
Let's ignore the fact that TK is a garbage fire for a moment and talk about
what an utter disaster this move is. A smarter contributor than me write a
good article that basically said you shouldn't own something you're not
contributing to. By this logic he should be selling his stake right now.
Except no-one wants to buy it. Which leaves an IPO, which is a tough ask for a
firm that's never made a profit and, AFAICT, not even on the board's radar.

That or this is a temporary face-saving measure that doesn't really change
anything, and that's a disaster too.

------
tedmiston
> The recommendations included reviewing Mr. Kalanick’s responsibilities and
> reallocating them, with an increased emphasis on a chief operating officer
> at the company.

Does that mean moving him from CEO into more of a COO role, or bringing on a
COO and reallocating those responsibilities to that person?

~~~
heymijo
I'm reminded of Marc Andreessen's guide to startups, particularly on firing
executives:

"Demotion as an alternative to firing (or, alternately, "I know, we'll hire
her a boss!"). Hate it. Great people don't deal well with getting demoted.
There is an occasional exception. Unless you are positive you have such an
exception, skip it, and move directly to the conclusion."
[http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_startups_part8.html](http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_startups_part8.html)

------
myth_buster
I think it's a timing thing. From the boards point of view, there is value for
Tk to take leave and value for Uber to have someone else at the helm.

Although from TK's point of view it would really suck. It's like loosing your
mother and a child.

I read somewhere that the best thing to do to cope with extreme personal
tragedies is to keep oneself busy... what's better way to keep oneself busy
than to work.

------
jackfrodo
A couple years overdue. I'm sorry for the man, but this would be necessary
regardless of his parent's death.

------
atmosx
Maybe you should stop watching too much TV.

~~~
dang
Personal attacks get accounts banned on HN, so please don't post like this
again. Repetitive spats like the current thread are bad enough as it is.

We detached this comment from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14546626](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14546626)
and marked it off-topic.

------
lettersdigits
prediction: this post will have 300+ comments and 300+ votes.

~~~
Mz
You forgot to guestimate the number of flags.

------
champagnepapi
ABOUT TIME

------
_RPM
I like Kalanik because he's not a Stanford|Harvard douche bag. Was he
privileged growing up?

------
stale2002
Omg, how is THIS the story that is on the top of hacker news?

I want to hear the results of the Holder investigation.

