
Ask HN: What laptop should I get instead of a Macbook Pro? - qntty
I was waiting for the new MBP to buy a laptop, but the recent announcement left me cold. What laptops have you found to be comparable in build quality to MBP? It looks like HP Elitebooks and Asus Zenbooks might be possible candidates. Are Lenovos worth considering post-superfish-gate?
======
skizm
I mean, not for nothing, but you do know you can still buy the old style MBP
with 2x usb3 and an hdmi port, right? You don't have to get the new style ones
that they announced.

That said, I hear you. I wanted a 32gb model with crazy good battery life
also, but to be honest, Windows laptops are kind of all shit right now. I'm in
the exact same boat as you. I hate the new MBPs and need a new laptop soon,
BUT I'm still landing on the old style MBP as the way forward every time I
look through the available options.

Probably not much help, but that's my 2 cents.

e: that said I am going to keep refreshing this thread and hope someone
mentions something I haven't looked at yet.

~~~
hxegon
razer has some laptops with 32gb if you want to check them out.

~~~
skizm
I actually just replied to another comment saying I actually might give razer
a more serious look. My initial impression a few years back was all their
stuff was over priced gimmicks with unique color schemes as their only selling
point, but recently that opinion has changed as I realize some of their stuff
is actually pretty quality.

------
SamUK96
I assume that if you considered an Apple product, you expect portability,
so...

If you want to spend a similar amount of money, get the Asus UX390UA (Zenbook
3). 1) It's lighter 2) It's got better components in every single aspect ->
CPU, GPU, SSD size, Screen, keyboard, etc., etc.... 3) It's actually _cheaper_
_STILL_

If you want to spend less, but now around the same performance of a MBP, maybe
get the Asus UX330. It's basically a toned-down UX390, but still awesome.

If you want a cheaper STILL, consider a Clevo reseller like PCSpecialist (UK),
Scan (Everywhere?), Sager (US), XMG (Europe). They are the ultimate in
performance per cost, it's just that they tend to not be the most asthetically
pleasing.

~~~
mrgreenfur
Wow those asus ones look like straight copies of the macbook, but with better
hardware. Pretty impressive!

------
mdasen
As an add-on question: how can one figure out if a laptop supports Precision
Touchpad rather than trying to emulate a mouse with the trackpad? Does
Precision Touchpad actually make Windows trackpad usable and enjoyable like
the Mac ones? Is Precision Touchpad supported by Linux distros?

~~~
jdalgetty
This was one of the reasons I returned the xps 13 I bought. As nice of a
computer as it was, I found the touchpad to be very frustrating to use vs my
mac air.

~~~
dolguldur
I can seccond that. Had an XPS 15 whichs sports an etched-glass trackpad that
still sucks so much I barely used it.

------
raisedadead
Yeah, windows laptops have always been shit (considering MS never made
hardware early on, until recently), MS has done some blunders in past as well
(remember Vista and Win8).

But it does learn from its mistake, the new Surface line-up is epic.
[http://mashable.com/2016/10/27/microsoft-better-
apple](http://mashable.com/2016/10/27/microsoft-better-apple)

I have been using a Windows laptop for over 5 years (Yeah a Lenovo!) and have
went thru the whole upgrade from Windows 7 --> Windows 10.1 Anniversary update
(for free), and to much shame of mine, my b!@#ch of a laptop still doesn't cry
considering a boot up time of 6 seconds!

Yet I needed a dedicated Unix environment and although Bash is available
natively now on Windows, it's not going to be stable soon enough for me (6
months from now maybe, Creators Update is coming in Jan' 2017). So, a week ago
I did buy the MBP retina 13" Early 2015, and trust me I am not disappointed,
after last night's #AppleEvent.

I might be biased but coming down to your query: > Are Lenovos worth
considering post-superfish-gate?

HELL YES!

"based on my personal experience".

~~~
raisedadead
Oops I forgot to mention, you should clean install Windows 10 on Lenovo, i
never liked the crapware that they gave, the hardware does have a great shelf
life.

------
NightlyDev
I'm very happy with my XPS 13, great build quality, great battery life, new
hardware, tiny screen borders(resulting in a tiny laptop) and linux support.

~~~
jdalgetty
I had the skylake version of this and returned it in two weeks. It was a nice
little computer but had a lot of weird issues.

~~~
ktt
I should've done the same. After 8 months of having it it still has a lot of
very weird issues. I hoped Dell would somehow fix it with a firmware update
but nope... everything is still the same.

------
rayalez
I am extremely happy with my Lenovo ThinkPad X1. It is beautiful, powerful,
and is pure joy to use.

Dell XPS 13 is also a very good alternative, I've heard.

~~~
vladimir-y
Lenovo X1 has no Thunderbolt 3 ports (not a single port), Dell XPS laptops
have widely known coil whine problem. So not the best choice.

------
berkeleynerd
For those wishing to run Linux, which of laptops require no (or minimal, I
suppose) closed source firmware? I tend to prefer Debian sans non-free but I'm
practical enough to just weight that as one factor among many.

~~~
SamUK96
Clevo reseller?

------
5ersi
We'll the Macbook Pro 2015 is still a decent machine. We should expect to see
some discounts as it phases out in the following weeks.

------
savanaly
In the spirit of "teach a man to fish" I'll plug this handy resource for
consumer electronics that I think makes very trustworthy and good
recommendations. [1]

And they have an entire article devoted to the topic of laptops. [2]

[1] [http://thewirecutter.com/](http://thewirecutter.com/)

[2] [http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/what-laptop-should-i-buy-
th...](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/what-laptop-should-i-buy-the-best-
laptops-for-every-need/)

~~~
randlet
Unfortunately they ignore Linux as far as I could tell on a quick browse.
Having Linux work with the hardware out of the box (more or less) is crucial.

------
manaskarekar
Surprised to see no mention of the excellent Latitude E7450 and E7470 and the
Latitude E5450 and E5470.

Run Linux beautifully, if you care about that.

~~~
SamUK96
They are heavy, that's why :)

For work, you need that easy-to-carry-in-a-shoulder-bag thing

~~~
NetStrikeForce
There's like a 100g difference between my E7470 (14 inches, touchscreen, i7,
256GB SSD, 16GB RAM) and the new 13 inch MacBook Pro.

The 15 inches MBP weights 30% MORE than my E7470.

Are you sure about the weight?

I couldn't be more happy with the little beast. Even though I was happy with
my previous X1 Carbon (4k touchscreen, 8GB); this one feels way snappier under
Win 10.

------
saluki
I would get a MBair or the last gen MBpro that is still for sale, I can't use
any other track pads for starters and for development I love OSX.

I plan to get another MBair or maybe the new MBpro without the touch bar. I
might go for the touch bar but right now it just doesn't interest me but I'll
go in and try one out, read reviews and see how it's integrated with software
I use.

I would still stick with a macbook.

------
faitswulff
I was hoping there would be more commentary on the Lenovo superfish situation
as it stands today. This is exactly my concern with purchasing from them.

~~~
walterbell
Wasn't superfish limited to consumer devices, i.e. not Thinkpads?

~~~
quantumhobbit
Doesn't matter to me. If they did that to 'consumers' I don't trust them even
if I am a 'professional'. Ethics are not selectively applied.

The arguement that they would never be stupid enough to do that to big
corporate customers doesn't help me because I am not a big corporate customer.

~~~
basch
Thinkpad is sort of a separate company within Lenovo. That's why Lenovo says
"we have headquarters in Beijing, China and Morrisville, North Carolina, U.S."

------
TurboHaskal
\- Dell XPS 13

\- Thinkpad x250 (x260 has PWM issues)

\- 4th Gen Thinkpad x1 Carbon (FHD model to avoid screen lottery)

\- Thinkpad x1 Carbon Yoga (OLED)

\- Refurbished 2015 Macbook Pro

~~~
Matachines
Do you know if refurbished Macs commonly have scuff marks or other wear?

~~~
TurboHaskal
I have never bought any. But colleagues swear they are "like new".

~~~
Matachines
Hm. Might get a maxed out refurbished 2015 Macbook, seems like it's around
$500 cheaper.

------
synchrone
I am using HP Spectre x360. Really close to MBP 13". Never actually used the
tablet mode. Bonus points for hassle-free linux experience.

~~~
tetraodonpuffer
I am surprised that most of these posts tend to gather recommendation for
dell, and very few people mention the spectre which to me seems great and is
on my shortlist of laptops to get when my old macbook finally kicks the can

How are you finding it in linux? does everything work well?

[edit] my perception of the x360 was based on the older models, after reading
this[1] on the stylus issues on the newer ones I am starting to wonder now

[1][http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Video-Display-and-
Touc...](http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Video-Display-and-Touch/Active-
pen-Stylus-won-t-work-with-new-Spectre-x360-13-3-inch/m-p/5761869)

~~~
synchrone
I've been using it since December 2015, and for the most part everything was
working nicely. The issues I had would be present on any other laptop running
linux, so it's not related only to this one:

\- Hi-DPI still deserves some love, especially if you're using different DPI
on different screens (e.g an external 4k display), although ubuntu gnome seems
to handle it better than plain ubuntu and definitely better than xubuntu.

\- Tablet mode is funny: orientation sensors don't work well, keyboard &
touchpad are not autodisabled in tablet mode, but then again it's not my use-
case, so I just disabled all those features.

\- (ok this one is a flaw of this particular laptop): When the display lid is
closed, the touchpad is not auto-disabled, which results in weird mouse
movement and clicks, since the lid presses on it. I had to hook an X-event
with a script to disable the touchpad input device when the lid is closed.

Other than that - everything works flawlessly.

------
markbnj
Most of my colleagues on our SRE/devops team have Lenovos and swear by them. I
have a System76 and I wish I could recommend it. Great system software
packaging, decent mainboard and display, horrible keyboard, touchpad and case
quality. I'd go with a Dell or Lenovo for my next one.

------
aq3cn
I am going for two computers. Server and budget Asus ultrabooks with touch
support. This should be ideal for me. I will not invest in high end laptops or
All in One because upgrading them isn't so smooth but whereas desktop
(especially servers) are built for long term use with option to upgrade any
time.

I have heavily relied on Microsoft Remote desktop in past and my experience
has been smoother for task like running and computing in MatLab or
Mathematica.

I have also been thinking of getting Razor blade pro laptop if this setup does
not work out. They have 2 TB PCie SSD with RAID 0. That's insane in less than
one inch thick laptop.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqUSr4Vwpok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqUSr4Vwpok)

------
bossx
Switched to a MS Surface Book after nearly a decade with Macbooks. Reasoning:

1) Powerhouse specs (core i7, 16gb ram, 512gb SSD, nvidia GeForce) for running
pretty much anything

2) Convertable to tablet for casual browsing, watching videos and drawing

3) Super accurate pen and touch support, pen acts like a mouse so can be used
for OS level interactions not just specific apps, even hover works

4) Pen mounts to screen magnetically

5) Can be used like a traditional laptop on your lap

6) Beautiful 3000x2000 pixel display, higher DPI than retina with a 3:2 aspect
ratio

7) Windows 10 with all the patches is actually a decent OS and supports all
form factors, touch etc.

It's really nice to be able to do creative work, everyday work and gaming all
on the same system. Currently playing Overwatch with no issues!

------
numerlo
I would recommend a Surface Book. Even if you don't plan to use it as a tablet
at all it still beats every other laptop on the market. Initially it had a lot
of issues but now they have been fixed and it really is amazing.

~~~
krisdol
How's the linux support on it? Even if I got over the my frustrations with the
windows desktop user-experience, not being unix-like is an absolute no-go for
development.

~~~
basch
Ubuntu is built into Windows 10

~~~
sparky2012
I don't think Bash on windows is a valid replacement for a full Linux setup.
Nor does it indicate hardware compatibility for Linux on that machine. That
being said, I believe that Linux runs with minimal issues on it.
([https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/comments/4gjx8g/ubuntu...](https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/comments/4gjx8g/ubuntu_1604_surface_book/))

~~~
basch
it's not just Bash, it's Ubuntu minus Linux, including binary compatibility.
bit-for-bit, checksum-for-checksum Ubuntu ELF binaries running directly in
Windows. all of Ubuntu user space.

~~~
sigjuice
Does WSL implement all the Linux system calls now? The last time I looked at
it, there was no support for PTYs and maybe ptrace? There was also some
limitation related to running GUI programs.

~~~
mobiuscog
It's still lacking a fair bit of low-level stuff, but hopefully that's on the
way.

------
rurban
I tried the Zenbook for a year, but the GPU didn't listen to sleep/lid close
events even after trying several fresh kernels, the Wifi wakeup on linux sucks
compared to macos (even with the mDNSresponder desaster), the trackpad was
much worse. In the end it burnt/overheated because of the overheated GPU. The
casing was also too edgy, I constantly did hurt myself with the right hand.

A fully upgraded MacBook Air is still the best. (i7, 500GB HD, 16GB RAM) I got
several of them.

Lenovo is too heavy to carry around. Even a MBP is too heavy and bulky for me.
The Elitebook has no 500GB HD available and also only 16GB RAM.

~~~
SomeHacker44
I have never seen a 16GB MacBook Air for sale. Please advise?

~~~
rurban
Oops, you are right. I thought I got 16, but only got 8.

    
    
        Macbook Air (13-inch, Early 2014)
        Processor 1.7 HGz Intel Core i7
        Memory 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
        Graphics Intel HD Graphics 5000 1536 MB
        Storage  APPLE SSD SM0512F 500.28 GB

------
jlebrech
Chromebook and SSH into a REAL computer ;)

on a serious note, look at Aorus X5, I like the RGB keyboard. you can get it
to colour the keys based on context. could be a nice alternative to the
overpriced touchscreen of the new macbooks.

~~~
Gracana
> Chromebook and SSH into a REAL computer ;)

These threads have surprised me, because I figured most developers (or at
least the web-focused ones that seem to be common on HN) would only need a
browser and a shell. Instead, there is talk of needing 32GB of RAM. Wow.

~~~
NetStrikeForce
Not everyone is a web dev :)

~~~
Gracana
Good.

But there are a lot of developers whose work could be done on a remote
machine, and I wonder if those people still prefer to work locally, and if
so... why?

It's entirely possible that the complaints/calls for beast-machines don't come
from any of those people at all.

~~~
jlebrech
I think there's a market for a localised CI machine or localised dev server
that developers can log into which is beefy enough to do tasks at fractions of
the time a devs machine would run at. Ideally it could have and IDE that runs
on the server designed for collaboration.

------
AdmiralAsshat
You don't mention if Linux support is vital to your search. It would be good
to know, since there are plenty of great Windows ultrabooks that are not-so-
great if you're planning to load Linux onto them.

------
baccheion
There are 4 laptops I'd buy right now (if I could):

\- Asus ZenBook Pro UX501VW (15.6")

\- MacBook Pro 2016 (15.6")

\- Dell XPS (13" or 15")

\- Lenovo X1 Carbon

If you don't like the MacBook Pro (or think it's too expensive), then I'd go
with the ZenBook Pro.

~~~
simon1573
I got a Asus Zenbook UX32vd a few years and I'm still very satisfied. Good
Linux support and a nice screen and keyboard. The mouse pad could be more
responsive though.

------
NDizzle
Razer has a 14" laptop that looks really nice, if you can look a little past
the color scheme.

[http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-
blade](http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade)

They also have a 17" and a 12.5" laptop, but you're probably looking for
something in between 13 and 15.

I'm in the same market. I have a late 2013 Macbook Pro and there is ZERO
chance I'm buying a modern 15" MBP. The Touch Bar is offensive to the point
that I'll put up with Windows instead.

~~~
skizm
I've actually been more and more impressed with Razer lately. At first I was
totally against their stuff claiming they were over charging for "cool
colored" stuff that was the same or worst than their alternatives (which was
true at the time), but I've slowly started using some of their stuff and it is
actually pretty nice. And the new stuff they're putting out seems like it
actually might be top of the line stuff and worth the price.

That said, I have no idea if this laptop is any good, I just wanted to mention
my feelings toward the company as a whole because I know a lot of people like
me who think of all their stuff as over priced normal stuff with "cool color
schemes".

------
chomp
I am using the Dell Precision 5510, it is really nice.

[http://i.dell.com/sites/imagecontent/merchandizing/Publishin...](http://i.dell.com/sites/imagecontent/merchandizing/PublishingImages/laptop-
precision-5000-5510-pol-mag-pdp_01-beauty.jpg)

Comes pre-installed with either Windows or Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. Also comes with
Thunderbolt over USB type-c so you can charge and hook up your peripherals
over 1 cable.

~~~
windexh8er
I think this is the sleeper laptop in this thread. I scoured and scoured for a
laptop with a 15" footprint, nice large matte screen, and not 4k (for reasons
obvious when considering running Linux painlessly still - and the fact that I
really didn't want a 4k screen from a battery life consideration).

I started down the path of Lenovo since I've had decent success in the past. I
literally ordered a P50 the day you could order them. Ended up getting rid of
it (long story in itself) because I found the Linux support of it was just
downright bad. The laptop is a dream on paper (I had an i7 with 64GB of RAM)
but running Linux on it in a workspace that includes multiple monitors was
just a ridiculous challenge day after day. For one - multi-monitor support is
very broken in the firmware when running on the Intel GPU. This may have been
addressed by now, but it was a royal PitA trying to get to a working setup
that was frictionless in my work cycle. The TL;DR of it was I wanted the
NVidia there for a few things I'd use a few times a month - but 99% of my
workflow would be done with Intel GPU. Also I've found that the newer Lenovo
units have quality control issues. While the P50 was decent, it felt cheap (in
my personal opinion) for a workstation class laptop. The plastic (even though
Mil grade) is long in the tooth, especially when compared to a lot of the
premium chassis experience you get with a lot of other laptops.

If you look here: [http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-
lapt...](http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop)

You'll find _all_ of the Dell laptops that have a good indication of Linux
support.

I really liked the 5510 on paper, but couldn't find any solid experience
reviews with regard to Linux. So I took a risk and bought a refurb unit off
eBay that had a full warranty to save a few bucks in case it wasn't what I
expected.

The laptop I got was certified refurb from Dell and I will say I didn't start
off on the right foot for the first two months. The 5510 would shut off if you
picked it up. Yep, that's right. So I opened a ticket with Dell and they
offered on-site or remote repair. The way it was presented it sounded like
remote repair would be faster so I sent it in. Got it back in a few days and
same thing. Literally Dell stated they replaced the mainboard and "tested".
Clearly the person fixing it didn't read or actually do anything (hindsight I
should have documented the original mainboard prior to sending).

Then the email and phone tag back and forth with Dell. They originally stated
that they would replace the entire system if they repaired it and the same
issue persisted, so I held them to that asking for a total system replacement
(thinking it would speed up my road to a usable system).

First blunder: they send me an "upgraded" 5510 with the 4k screen. I don't
want the 4k screen I tell Dell. They state that it's an upgrade. I argue it's
not and oh by the way after actually booting it the screen has a nice blue
blemish right in the middle of it about the size of a quarter - so it's broken
anyway (this was not a refurb unit but brand new).

I tell Dell to send me a 1080p version of the 5510. They state they don't make
them anymore. I argue you can buy them online still - really? Really Dell?

Miraculously after 2 months from start to finish another refurb 1080p version
of 5510 shows up (no warning from Dell). It's refurb and it works. I'm happy.

Now that I have it - it's great. The Linux support is awesome, the screen is
awesome (XPS "borderlesss" type screen). But the part I really wanted was the
RAM support beyond 16GB. There's just no reason to not support 32 or 64 with
the advent of 16GB sticks these days. The 5510 supports 32, so I have a nice
Linux laptop with 32GB of RAM, a generally new proc (Skylake), 1 x USB type-C,
2 x USB 3, SD card slot, and full HDMI. I did buy a type-C breakout (Ethernet
& HDMI) and it does work, but I've found it to be flaky at times. Although
since the latest distribution kernel (Ubuntu MATE 16.04) it's been fine.

I do hate the trackpad and wish Dell would put some pointers on laptops. The
feel of the trackpad is good and with some tweaks it's generally usable.
Disabling soft left and right keys should be the default, stupid annoying and
you have to just run a script at boot since there's nowhere to disable it
permanently in the OS. It's also too high against the bottom of the keyboard
and mouse focus becomes an issue if you're not the type of person who is 100%
diligent about having wrists off keyboard. Now maybe this is a good thing
because it's really forced me to type in a more appropriate manner. But very
awkward when you're not used to it.

Build quality (sans the first units) is great. The chassis is rock solid, the
hinge is a bit too tight for single hand opening though. But no flex in either
the screen or the keyboard. Not too heavy or large (compared to the P50). All
around far better physical construction in my opinion having owned both. I
also like the keyboard on the Dell better. The P50 is off center and just odd.
I'm sure you get used to it though.

So... TL;DR of the whole experience? * Tried a Lenovo P50, did not work with
my workflow due to firmware / BIOS issues with multi-display support under
Linux and Intel GPU * Tried a Dell 5510, horribly QA. After third 5510 finally
have a unit that works appropriately. Dell support is frustrating. Trackpad is
the main nuisance, but not a deal breaker. Nice hardware and physical build
quality. Battery life is easily 9+ hours during normal usage for me. Currently
typing this from and at 93% charge it states 10 hours remaining. Probably not
quite that since any video playback does impact that - but it will definitely
get you through a half day easily and a full day if you're not leveraging
heavy CPU.

 __edit: wrong word

------
scrollaway
I would recommend the Dell XPS 13.

------
jdbernard
Maingear's Pulse lineup is worth looking at. I got mine with an Nvidia 980M
and 4K display and love it. They recently updated the line and offer it with a
GTX 1060 too.

Not quite as thin and light as a Macbook Pro, but not far off: 17.5mm and 4
lbs.

[https://www.maingear.com/custom/notebooks/pulse15/index.php](https://www.maingear.com/custom/notebooks/pulse15/index.php)

------
vladimir-y
As for me the only decent laptops on the market are HP Spectre x360 (second
generation, recently updated, comes with Kaby Lake) and Acer TravelMate P648.
Unfortunately not the Dell XPS laptops due to the widely known coil whine
problem and in general a quality control issue.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12816033](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12816033)

------
stuffaandthings
I just got a T460s, and am super happy with my Arch Linux setup.

The build quality definitely isn't as good as Apples. I had to return my first
T460s due to severe light-bleed issues. The new one is fine, though the
TrackPoint isn't as good as it was in previous generations. The TrackPad also
is not as good as Apples, though I try to keep a keyboard-only workflow so
it's not that much of an issue (till it is)

------
impostervt
I just got one from System76. I like it a lot so far.

[https://system76.com/](https://system76.com/)

(I got a lemur)

~~~
dom0
Looks like a Clevo reseller. Btw. the Schenker S306 looks like a neat machine
for the money.

------
RenatSh
Have no personal experience with any of following laptops, but there is a list
of laptops with Nvidia 1060: [http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11702-laptops-
nvidia-1060/](http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11702-laptops-nvidia-1060/) There
are even laptops with less than 2kg weight

------
elchief
I got a Macbook Pro 2 months ago. Was dreading the announcement as I thought I
might have buyer's remorse. Nope.

------
swiley
The gentoo wiki has a guide cross posted from thinkwiki on used thinkpad
shopping which might be useful:

[https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/File:KTGee_Used_Thi...](https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/File:KTGee_Used_Thinkpad_Guide.png)

------
dman
T460. Install Ubuntu. Install powertop and tlp. Run powertop to make sure its
happy with the settings on your machine. With the extended battery this setup
will get > 10 hours battery life (for programming workloads) and is near
silent with an excellent keyboard.

------
IdontRememberIt
I am a dev who needs to travel light. I was looking for an alternative to the
MBP in the MS world. I found it: the Lenovo X1 Carbon. Pros: light, well
finished, classic design, technical specs, keyboard is a dream. Cons: some
crapware to remove

------
walkingolof
Thinkpad P50 - 4K screen, Xenon CPU, 64 GB Memory in a supprisingly nimble
package.

~~~
e12e
Wasn't aware of the p50 (or p70) - too heavy (and expensive) for what _I_ want
in a laptop - but aside for price I really like the 4k screen paired with 8
hours of battery use. Some more info for others here:

[http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-
thinkpad-p50](http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-p50)

I recently bought a mid-range (according to autocorrect: mild-mannered) ms
Surface pro 4, and I am reasonably happy with it.

I don't think I'll ever own a regular laptop again - high resolution touch
screen with real pen is the only sane graphical environment - something I
suspected before I got my Surface (I mean this is not a new idea, it's
basically a "dynabook" logically expanded for touch/pen) - and I now feel I've
confirmed that it is.

Maybe the 360/tent design will win out - I tried a yoga 3, and found the
keyboard to be surprisingly bad. Much worse than on my old thinkpad t420s.
More importantly it's actually rather nice to be able to have the device (sp4)
become a reasonably light tablet for reading (comics or books) and
drawing/taking notes with the pen.

I love the old IBM thinkpad keyboard so much that I bought one for my desktop.
Still works great, but the lack of windows keys is a bit painful in win10. And
even in Linux - having a dedicated window manager hot-key other than ctrl/alt
(meta) is convenient.

Having also played with a Dell xps 13, I think I would've gotten a Dell xps 15
if I were to get a regular laptop today. The 13 is nice, but it being so small
I think the 15 would be great. The xeon thinkpad looks a bit heavy (and
expensive).

The lenovo yoga 900 got good reviews - also for the keyboard - but so did the
yoga 3. And I couldn't use the 3 for daily programming etc. The surface 4
keyboard is surprisingly good - currently I've been using it in mostly short
burts - but I've also written a few lines of code on it - and for me it's good
enough. I'm not aware of any other new device with a _better_ keyboard.

I would actually like a water/rainproof device - I guess maybe the surface 5
will be that (hey we need some perks for a needlessly locked down cabinet).
And I wish they'd put in a battery three times as big. There are also minor
glitches - typical Pc/windows stuff - it feels a bit like a last iteration
proto-type. And that's OK - that was my expectation.

In sum, I think the sp4 (probably with a docking station) might be one of the
best devices to get right now. Possibly the recent lenovo x1 yoga oled tablet
too - but I haven't played with one, and I actually suspect Microsoft makes
the best keyboards right now.

I don't think anyone should rush into tablets yet - there are no good,
productive touch environments yet, outside of graphics packages (I suspect
Smalltalk and the acme editor are two of the best things we have). But I know
we're going to see good touch/tablet experiences built around Linux/bsd
(because people will want it, and build it) - and windows will keep improving.
We will go from cute to Useful - but I'm guessing real touch/pen uis are a few
years out. Needless to say if you want to be part of building the (near)
future you should probably get one of these.

[https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/27/thinkpad-x1-yoga-oled-
re...](https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/27/thinkpad-x1-yoga-oled-review/)

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ljw1001
If there was a truly-good cloud IDE for Java I would buy a chrome book. When I
think of the tens of thousands of dollars I've spent on compute hardware over
the years I want to cry.

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drakonka
I have been super happy with my ThinkPad X1 Carbon running Fedora (migrated
from MacBook Air to this about 7-8 months ago as I heard the airs were likely
to be phased out).

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SteveNuts
I just got a System76 Lemur.

The actual build quality isn't great, but it's functional with no frills which
is exactly what I wanted.

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staticautomatic
I have a Samsung Book and it is unquestionably the best laptop I've ever
owned. Happy to answer questions.

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brudgers
Dell Precisions are well built.

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wprapido
a happy dell 7710 and lenovo w520 user here. if you want a more compact
machine, go for asus zenbook or dell xps. lenovo x1 isn't bad either. all of
them got great linux support

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kozhevnikov
I'm waiting for Dell XPS 15 to get Kaby Lake update.

~~~
jdalgetty
I'm curious about this myself. I want to know what they'll do with the video
card as well as if they'll be able to solve the coil whine issues. Also hoping
for an improved touch pad.

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izolate
I'm quite happy with my mid-2014 Macbook Pro, but if I were in the market for
an upgrade, I'd buy a Razer Blade Stealth and install Ubuntu on it.

------
WayneBro
Any opinions on why developers on HN/elsewhere seem to prefer laptops over
desktop machines?

Do you really need to be coding on the bus/train/plane or in hotels? When you
go to a meeting, do you really need to bring your entire development setup
with you?

When I go into a client's office for a meeting I usually only need to take
notes and do presentations. So I get a cheap $500 laptop for that. If I need
anything at all from my home workstation, I just remote into it. Actually, I
did this even before I was working for myself - I'd just remote back into my
workstation at my desk.

Is it just that you don't want to deal with 2 machines? Are you just doing it
because that's what everybody else is doing?

~~~
z1mm32m4n
As a college student developer, my needs are a bit different:

\- I need to write code. This means having a machine that has all the software
you expect available in some way.

\- I need to collaborate with my classmates on projects. This means working on
campus around a table to figure stuff out.

\- I have to go to classes, labs, and workshops. Oftentimes classes will say
"make sure you bring your laptop" because they're going to give you work time
in class, or expect you to finish something in class.

\- I like working with my laptop on my lap. I have a really comfy chair at
home. There are a lot of great lounge areas on campus. It's nice to be able to
pick up and plop down anywhere you feel like.

