
A $999 monitor stand is everything wrong with Apple today - AliCollins
https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/04/apple-pro-display-xdr-stand/
======
askafriend
This is a dumb article.

The only reason they even broke out the pricing like this is because the
target audience is media production houses in Hollywood and other high budget
environments where they already have their own rigs and mounts. It’s just a
line item on an invoice. This monitor is competing against $25k+ reference
displays. And the price is _very competitive_.

The only difference here is that no other company does large scale press
events for products meant for such a niche professional audience.

MKBHD said it best in his video. If Apple had said “This is a $6k monitor” and
then during configuration time provided a stand-less option for $1k less, then
we wouldn’t see any of these dumb articles.

This is everything that is wrong with journalism today.

~~~
manderley
People keep saying this: Is this monitor actually competitive with $25k+
reference monitors? Because the specs seem to indicate "no" to me, but I'm not
a professional user so can't judge what's important.

Also, to be able to use your own mount you still need the $200 VESA mount.

~~~
threeseed
So you're not a professional user and you can't judge what's important. But
your gut feeling is telling you that it isn't a good deal ?

I wonder what someone from Apple Product Marketing would think about comments
like this when they would've spent the best part of 5 years working closely
with potential customers in the product design and specifications.

~~~
logicallee
Come on, it's a fair question, this person said "the specs" seem to indicate,
not their gut feeling. As they read the specs it can't literally replace a
$25K+ reference display.

Can it, yes or no?

~~~
threeseed
If you are not a professional user how can you interpret the "specs".

You're not seriously saying that you can compare two products that you have no
clue about simply by comparing random numbers and picking which is the
highest.

It's the equivalent of picking a camera based purely off megapixels whilst
ignoring dynamic range, sensor size, lens quality, in camera processing etc.

~~~
logicallee
if Tesla said about a car "this one can compete straight in a nascar race,
stock" and really seemed to mean it and kept repeating it, then absolutely it
would be a fair question whether it is literally true. Because it's such an
unusual claim.

It's yes/no: can it literally go where only a $25k can? Or not literally, no.

------
DevX101
The rise of Apple computers latest era started with the ad campaign "I'm a
Mac/I'm a PC" which made computing choices a cultural signal, mocking PC users
as stodgy and out of touch corporate types. It worked.

The timing is right where a computer manufacturer with a solid build at a
reasonable price could play this same strategy against Apple. I'm thinking an
ad campaign which pokes fun at Apple at being over priced and pretentious,
with out of touch super fans paying thousands for a basic laptop and
accessories.

The cornerstone of the campaign could be this image:

[https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5cf8133011e2051fb46d5...](https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5cf8133011e2051fb46d510d-1334-1000.jpg)

Disclaimer: Writing this comment from a Macbook Pro.

~~~
sjustinas
MSI is on it.

[https://twitter.com/AustraliaMSI/status/1136188253785034752](https://twitter.com/AustraliaMSI/status/1136188253785034752)

~~~
thirdsun
I get their point, but to be fair the pixel density of the MSI model isn't
comparable at all. I'd take that 5k display in a 27" format though.

------
gutnor
So much noise about the stand. This is the stand of a $5000 monitor, not just
any stand.

Any random piece of plastic on a Porsche is more expensive than on a Ford.
That shouldn't be the case in a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect
world.

People have complained for years that Apple is no pro enough. The Mac Pro and
XDR display are so pro-level that the vast majority of the WWDC public was not
the target demographic either.

Is it too expensive? Yes. Does that matter? No, it's only because it has an
Apple badge that we hear about this at all, and people entitlement with Apple
is just off the charts.

~~~
nextos
I'm happy that Apple is aiming at the pro market again. I wish their next step
was to release more products for programmers, not just designers.

For example, big 2k 16:10 monitors have been wiped out from the market as
manufacturers can't be bothered to produce panels in that aspect ratio,
instead of 16:9. More vertical space makes such a difference.

I only know of two old 30 inch models from Dell and NEC that will be soon not
possible to purchase. Apple, with their scale, could get custom orders.

~~~
Theodores
I am not sure that 2K 16:10 30" is the sweet spot for users. Five years ago
before 4K worked properly then yes, but not now.

4K on 31" works great, plenty of vertical resolution for code plus the pixels
are not too small. Anything larger and you will be getting neck ache peering
up/down the screen. Or you would have to push the monitor further away than
what a regular desk affords, adjusting font sizes accordingly, going into
painful letter box territory.

I promise you won't look back if you go 4K on 31", there is no need for a dual
monitor setup unless you are editing movies!

~~~
nextos
But with scaling, are you not simply getting effectively a 16:9 2k but a bit
crisper with 4k?

I have tried one of those old 30 inch Dells with 16:10 2560x1600, and it's
amazing how much nicer it feels than having just 1440 vertical pixels. The
aspect ratio is closer to sqrt(2). I guess that's the difference.

~~~
Theodores
I don't have scaling and all application font sizes are stock. 31" is
goldilocks for me, it is about having 2160 pixels good for programming, not
smoothed out 'retina', but native pixels!

I have a failed product according to the marketplace - cinema 4096 x 2160
resolution @ 24Hz with extraordinary colour accuracy. Perfect for code,
useless for gaming and 60+ Hz video.

I am not sure I would want a 27" 5K monitor, even if it did work properly
(mine has an early DisplayPort interface, pre-dating useful standards). If you
get a chance to look at a 34" 5K monitor then I reckon that could be what you
are looking for. Any bigger and you have to crane your neck or push the
monitor further away.

------
sudhirj
Yes, the people who sit in $1,000 Aeron chairs with $10,000 workstations
hooked up to $42,000 monitors and $5,000 speakers (each) in $100,000 -
$1,000,000 studios working on movies and songs that make $100,000,000 to
$1,000,000,000 each are going to be so pissed off about this atrocious
pricing.

~~~
badestrand
But how many people are those? 1,000 worldwide? 10,000? I am sure it is a tiny
fraction of the entire audience of maybe a fifty million people who hear about
it. So they should do it in a separate event or direct market it to those
studios, but the news didn't fit the audience.

~~~
spectramax
Because WWDC is a conduit for Apple to flex while the whole world is watching.
WWDC is a major event, yes for developers but also for Apple in general to
release new products and services.

------
frou_dh
Is the monitor actually in the same category as existing "reference" monitors
that cost 5 figures?

If the answer to that is yes, then the fundamental mistake is presenting the
monitor at a show watched by consumers. Because that's just a recipe for
bafflement and mismatched expectations.

~~~
gridlockd
> Is the monitor actually in the same category as existing "reference"
> monitors that cost 5 figures?

Does the back of that Apple thing look anything like this?

[https://assets.fatllama.com/images/large/sony-
oled-17-trimas...](https://assets.fatllama.com/images/large/sony-
oled-17-trimaster-monitor-76348033.jpg)

No? Then it's not in the same category.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
It is very expensive. But it's based on the tried-and-tested Apple pricing
approach: as high as the target customer will jump. I assume Apple is trying
to milk large business customers for all they're worth, it is the “pro” market
after all. The $800 saving by going for the VESA mount is peanuts compared to
the overall cost of a fully-configured Mac Pro setup.

~~~
keithnoizu
The end-benefit aspect of consumer price sensitivity.

------
tdy_err
I think it's a misrepresented discount. Like, most pros have VESA mounts
already. So they discount the monitor... So you don't have to pay for it if
you don't need it.

But the message about that reason is not there and therefore it _sounds_ like
nickel and diming.

Instead we should consider it as:

$6000 for the monitor with stand OR $5200 for the monitor with VESA mount

~~~
spectramax
Yep, this was poor marketing. Plain and simple.

~~~
threatofrain
Perhaps poor but also perhaps deliberate to give an unrealistically (because
most customers will buy the stand or the vesa mount) low price point.

------
Stay_frostJebel
The truth is... anyone who's complaining about the cost of the optional stand,
can't afford to buy the monitor anyway.

I somehow don't think this monitor was designed for viewing and editing iMovie
videos. Completely different market.

------
millstone
Yeah decorate it with $29 iPod socks then call us back.

The critique of Apple's "design over usefulness" is older than the Internet. I
read this exact same article after the iMac dropped the floppy drive.

------
kmlx
i own a dell monitor. it comes with the same type of stand, having the same
functionalities. and it came with the monitor.

what is so different about apple’s monitor stand that warrants $1k?

~~~
Terretta
Can you link to this “same type of stand”, please? It needs to have:

\- floating counterbalanced vertical positioning for a screen of this weight.

\- 90 degree rotation

Apple first released this kind of mechanism with the Pixar lamp iMac, to float
its screen above the hemisphere base; I haven’t seen it for any consumer or
prosumer monitor since.

~~~
kmlx
maybe i'm misunderstanding something, but the following stand [0] appears to
be identical to the apple one:

\- Tilt and lift

\- Switch from portrait to landscape with bi-directional pivoting

\- 45-degree swivel

(Bi-directional pivoting, tilt adjustment +30° to -5°, swivel adjustment ±45°,
100 mm vertical lift range)

[0] [https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-optiplex-7760-all-in-
on...](https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-optiplex-7760-all-in-one-height-
adjustable-stand/apd/452-bdfq/monitors-monitor-accessories#polaris-pd)

------
znpy
As Linus from LinusTechTips pointed out, if they had just bundled the whole
thing for 6k with an option to buy the monitor alone for 5k (thus "saving" 1k)
people would probably be less angry.

I don't really see the point of getting angry however: for once Apple is
trying to charge 1k$ extra for a thing that you don't really need and that you
can easily and happily live without.

Just use a compatible one that you can get for like $100 or less off Amazon.

~~~
manderley
If anything, the $200 VESA mount you absolutely need is more egregious.

~~~
keithnoizu
but having a non standardized mount is so revolutionary.

~~~
Yetanfou
Why do you make such a snide remark on a reasonable statement? $200 for a
metal cross with 4 screw holes _is_ egregious no matter whether it has a
picture of a partly eaten apple on it or not. This is unrelated to any other
qualities the monitor might have, it is still nothing but a VESA mount which
could be included in the box or sold for a token price. They'd make a profit
if they sold it at $20.

~~~
Dylan16807
> Why do you make such a snide remark on a reasonable statement?

Because the snide remark was _agreeing with_ the reasonable statement, and
mocking Apple.

~~~
keithnoizu
Yes. It's odd that they wouldn't use a vesa mount if they are targeting this
market that often uses custom display mount grids. Or at at least include the
bracket in the packaging. You can use a vesa mount and still support custom
mounting brackets. Like my Dell 4ks all support vesa but use an alternative
hook to actually connect and remove the monitor from the base.

------
yoz-y
There are tripods that cost way more than this, professional equipment has a
markup, justified or not.

It's funny how so many people are complaining about something they were never
going to buy anyways.

At some level it is Apple's fault, they were marketing the "Pro" line to
general public for so long that somehow they have set an expectation which
makes no sense.

------
samdung
I have a question.

Is the $999 stand a media deflection strategy for a rather mundane WWDC or
something else? [https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/highlights-from-
wwdc-...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/highlights-from-wwdc-2019/)

~~~
threeseed
You can't possibly be serious. It is WWDC i.e. a developer's conference after
all. And amongst developers and power users it was by far the best ever.

Project Catalyst allows you to build Mac apps from your iOS code base with a
checkbox and some minimal code. SwiftUI is a true game changer for app
developers bringing Flutter style development. iPad OS with long overdue
features like desktop Safari with download manager, USB drive support, 9ms
pencil latency. iOS with Dark Mode, 2x app launch time, clever use of ML in
Photos. Sign in with Apple is an extremely clever way to combat privacy. Apple
Maps looked really strong.

I could keep going but mundane is not the way I would describe it.

~~~
spectramax
I also agree. This was one of the best WWDC’s in recent history. No matter
what Apple does, it’s a lose-lose situation. HN was complaining for ages about
how the 2014 Mac Pro sucked. Now that Apple has hit it out of the park, HN is
still complaining about pricing. We’ve seen this since the introduction of
iPhone. People said it sucked and it went ahead and changed the world. $499
for a phone!!!!! Are you kidding me?

It’s disappointing that HN continues to complain, often without basis. It’s a
ritual. A positive comment has to, _has to_ be combated with an opposing view
even if it isn’t justified.

This Mac Pro is amazing in my view. Design, aesthetics, features, thermal
design, engineering, EVERYTHING.

But, fuck Apple. The monitor didn’t have a 120hz refresh rate. I’m
disappointed. Everyone is doing it, even Asus. How can Apple ignore our needs!
For $5000!!!? Are you kidding me?

Sigh.

------
csomar
I don't think I'm going to buy one but here is a thing: Is it made of Aluminum
or other expansive metal?

I bought a desk with Aluminum legs. The legs were empty from the inside. The
desk was already expensive comparing to the standard model (It was custom
made, I asked for the Alu legs). I asked the manufacturing guy why the legs
were not full and he laughed. He said the price will be astronomical if they
were full and that the metal is very expensive.

I forgot the price but it was definitively over $1,000. The non-Alu version
was less than half.

So depending on the metal and heaviness of the stand, Apple might not be
overcharging on this one.

~~~
D_Alex
> Is it made of Aluminum or other expansive metal?

There are few metals as cheap as aluminium, actually I cannot think of any
except iron.

Bulk aluminium costs less than $1/pound.

Of course if the legs were not hollow, they might be rather heavy (even though
aluminium is quite a light metal)

------
zeristor
Ironically on an Oath website demanding privacy opt outs to continue.

Could HN alert people to these sites, change T&C to remove them?

~~~
Spare_account
FWIW the engadget article is accessible here:
[https://outline.com/qAas5k](https://outline.com/qAas5k)

~~~
zeristor
That wouldn’t be ironic then would it?

Are you Alainis Morrisette perchance?

------
clay_the_ripper
If it seems expensive, it’s not for you.

Although I am disappointed that Apple hasn’t made a display for “the rest of
us”. I’d love an Apple monitor instead of the LG ones but without all the
stuff only high end video pros need. Maybe they’ll do one after everyone buys
the 6k version already.

------
jpalomaki
On the actual monitor side you don’t seem to have much competition on this
category. If you want large screen with high DPI, the only ”massmarket” option
seems to be the couple of years old Dell 32” 8K display which sells for like
$4k.

Seems to be all the 5k displays have been discontinued.

~~~
blablabla123
Maybe it's also more to be seen as a reference, the LG models were also quite
top notch. Probably better than making/advertising low end reference models.

For example it's great that they advertise USB-C so much. This will finally
end the mass of mutually incompatible docking station solutions and create
less electronics trash. By the way, there is are Dell display stands with
USB-C charging, integrated Ethernet, USB-A ports etc and VESA mount. So the
stand I got (DS1000) was 200 $ and the screen I got for 75 $...

------
z3t4
It's funny how monitor stands can cost more then the monitor itself, but it's
relatively cheap if it can prevent back/neck pain.

------
iliaznk
Let's wait and see their sales reports and then we'll see who's wrong.

------
finchisko
I wonder how many people complaining about the price of the stand, is even
considering buying the monitor. My point is, why to complain about something
I'm not going to buy anyway.

------
jotm
Wait, I thought people on Reddit were joking about the 1k price tag

~~~
kbumsik
The 1k stand is a real thing. The audiences in the keynote booed when they
showed the price tag.

~~~
MikusR
The booing was especially funny because a large part of audience are Apple
employees, put there to clap after every word.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
Are they "put there" or are they just passionate about the company they work
for and haven't seen these products as they're in different departments?

(Disclaimer: I don't own any Apple hardware)

------
bubblewrap
I was very tempted to buy a MacBook Pro last year. If the keyboards would
actually work, it would have been pretty much perfect except for the price. I
have no experience with the touch bar, but it didn't look so bad in the store.

I hope they can fix the keyboard issues...

(Just to make a counterpoint to the "everything Apple does sucks" tone of the
article)

