
Microsoft Issues Windows 10 Upgrade Warning - Frye
https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2019/01/26/microsoft-windows-10-upgrade-storage-space-problem-price-cost/#34881942f024
======
Someone1234
I'm always impressed by people's creative ability to put a negative spin on
almost anything. Particularly to generate hate-clicks.

In this case they're implementing Seamless Updates, which should substantially
reduce downtime and improve roll-backs during update installation (a major
complaint) but instead of focusing on the benefit, they focus on the disk
space loss.

The reason it takes up space on Windows, Android, and Chrome OS is that the
reserved area holds a chunk of the operating system which is updated in the
background before restart. When a restart occurs, the reserved and active
slices are swapped (and reversion can be rapidly conducted for failures/roll-
backs).

This is a nice quality of life improvement for a common complaint.

~~~
coderobe
it's a nice quality of life improvement unless you're running low on space. 7+
gb is _a lot_ , especially on embedded devices with low soldered storage -
like microsoft's own products! coincidentally instead of offering upgradeable
internal storage they upsell really hard on the models with more storage in
their surface lineup

if anything, this should be a toggle- if only an opt-out toggle.

fwiw, you can install a linux system including an entire graphical stack with
web browser and mail client in that space, twice.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
This is also going to be a major pain on my Windows VM's. I often only give
those ~32 GB of storage to begin with, since they're only for a tiny handful
of programs.

I'm assuming there will be a group policy setting I can change, though, since
I'm lucky enough to have Windows 10 Pro...

------
jerf
I can't answer this because the most likely location for the answer [1] is
locked behind a beta program access or something, but where do they plan on
taking the reserved storage from? I assume they're not going to try to
repartition the drive? It sounds like they're just using filesystem features
to carve it out of an existing partition, but I'd like to be sure. My laptop
is currently dual-boot, but if Microsoft starts blindly mucking with partition
tables it's gonna go single-boot Linux right quick. (I _expect_ it's not that,
but I'd like to be sure.)

As long as they're staying out of the partition table, this sounds like a good
idea to me, honestly.

[1]: [https://insider.windows.com/en-
us/ih/?contentid=2762bf7a-bef...](https://insider.windows.com/en-
us/ih/?contentid=2762bf7a-bef0-4835-8e4c-04ae8e3ed299&contenttype=quest)

~~~
smhenderson
I have no clue either but my guess is that they will just use a sys file like
hibernate or pagefile. Most people will never see it and those of us that peek
at hidden, system files once in a while will most likely not be able to mess
with it easily due to permissions.

At least I would hope they would do something like that, I agree a method
which messed with partitions would be a complete show stopper!

------
Tomasz_Papka
Interesting... Microsoft is forcing everyone to update their machines for
quite some time... I've noticed that MS is forcing updates on my machine about
a year ago and out of frustration I asked about it on this forum four months
ago
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18029216](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18029216))
Please try it. Go to Computer Management/Services and Applications/Services
and then stop and disable Windows Updates. It's a matter of days before it
will be back and running again. My next machine is going to be Apple.

~~~
21
I presume the first thing you'll do on your next Apple machine is disabling
updates.

Don't forget to also disable auto-updates in Chrome/Firefox, since they are
enabled by default.

~~~
zdragnar
I think the gripe was less about auto-updates than the fact that the OS
allegedly un-set OP's attempt at opting out.

Forgetting certain settings is annoying. Forgetting that I want to manually
control when my computer downloads gigs of data to apply a patch that- in
recent times especially- may very well brick my system... well, I can
certainly understand where OP's frustration comes in.

Even at one of my jobs a few years back (which was about 50/45/5 apple /
windows / linux shop) we were cautioned against applying major updates from
apple within the first month or so of their releases given past issues.

~~~
21
I wouldn't call disabling the Windows Update service as "setting an option"
that it's later forgotten. It's more of a thing an inexperienced user does by
mistake while messing around. Windows does things behind you back, like
magically restore system files if you manage to delete them, and so on, in an
effort to keep running. But of course, some people are like "I deleted those
files on purpose, so stay the damn out of my lawn"

But I do get your point, and Windows is indeed lacking an option to fully
disable updates, even if it does have an option to defer major updates by up
to an year.

~~~
LifeLiverTransp
Windows also collects what pirated software you run and - on buisness success
sells you out to the vendor of said software. Guess the crack did not work..

~~~
colejohnson66
Not that I don’t believe you, but I’m gonna need a citation for that

------
twblalock
I don't understand why the updates take up so much space -- 7GB according to
the article.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
It seems like the old "set your pagefile manually so you never have to worry
about it growing/shrinking" trick from Windows of yore - they are grabbing
that much so that they don't have to grab more at any time. It's basically a
promise that, while those 7 GB are the systems now, you'll never have a
problem where you run out of storage space due to an update (assuming after
they reserve the initial 7 GB).

------
lozenge
It's not a warning - this only affects new PCs shipped with the latest
version, not upgraders.

~~~
KSS42
"at this time"

~~~
dingdingdang
Exactly. Running Windows now is like playing roulette. How will this feature
work in a month, "no idea". How will I change this option in the UI, "no
idea". Will this option I set for important privacy setting stick after the
latest (automatic) upgrade, "no idea. Ad infinitum. :/

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
It's like using a Google product.

~~~
dingdingdang
Yep, and the effect of having this happen on a mass scale across all major
providers/players in the software/IT field is that humanity is collectively
left spinning it's wheels aimlessly (literally million of years in lost real
time) instead of going from a to b using a set of tools.

If our cars behaved in similar ways (the gearstick is sometimes in one place
sometimes in another and the way the wheel works changes at random while the
glove compartment could at any one time be found in a new surprising location)
we would see the results instantly but because computing is predominantly desk
bound the loss incurred is in many ways silent.

------
mrguyorama
One thing that interests me: How does a Windows 10 install + 7gb reserved
space compare with a current Windows 7 install in terms of disk usage? I
thought Windows 7 was "fatter" than 10?

------
IshKebab
I'm fine with this. Android basically works the same way and I don't see
anyone complaining about that.

~~~
yread
I'm complaining. Android "System" takes up 13GB on my phone. That's too damn
much!

------
zozbot123
Linux has the exact same feature, and has had it since approximately forever.
By default, 5% of the disk space on any system partition is reserved for use
by the superuser after the main 95% portion is filled up. And system updates
run with superuser privileges, so... ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
jenscow
Differences:

\- It's configurable.

\- The space is reserved for the end user, not the OS manufacturer.

------
LifeLiverTransp
Introducing the Update Prevention Tool.. Continously writting into reserved
storage to prevent updates.. in 3.. 2... 1

------
baldfat
I am glad that Windows is an opt-out of updates. We all know the majority of
people never update anything. Personally I opt out and manually update my
systems but most people just need it to happen.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
When I set up Windows to encode a video overnight, and I wake up the next
morning and the encode isn't finished because Windows decided to restart in
the middle, I'm not happy. This basically means I can't use Windows to encode
videos, period. (And no, setting Active Hours doesn't work, because the whole
point is I want the videos to get encoded when I'm _not_ active!)

The same applies to downloading large files, etc. I realize that updates are
important, but it's even more important that I can actually rely on my
computer.

~~~
21
You get a notification when Windows plans on restarting somewhere in the
future. I just click on it and manually set the restart date 1 week in the
future. That's it.

I'm also leaving the computer on for weeks and never had an unexpected reboot
with this protocol.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
This doesn't work if it's been a while since I last booted into my Windows
partition. Windows immediately decides I'm past the point where I can defer.
It does show a notification immediately beforehand, but if I'm asleep that
isn't useful.

~~~
baldfat
You can disable the Reboot task present under Task Scheduler Library >
Microsoft > Windows > UpdateOrchestrator in the Task Scheduler app

I haven't had a Windows 10 computer just randomly reboot and I work with about
30 PCs.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Respectfully, if you're using the PC's for work I'm guessing they don't get
turned off (or stay in alternate OS's) for extended periods.

I'll take a look at task scheduler, thanks.

