
Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC - ausjke
https://devuan.org/
======
_delirium
Isn't systemd still optional in Debian? I know there is worry that since it's
the default, packages won't necessarily be well-tested without it, but afaik
you can still remove it, just by installing sysvinit: [http://without-
systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Debian_Stretch](http://without-
systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Debian_Stretch)

~~~
eropple
I had the same reaction to the initial announcement of a fork, and it's taken
three years to get to an RC.

(The whole systemd tempest in the tiniest, most awkward of teacups never made
a lick of sense to me--in no small part because, like 99% of people, the only
time I ever interact with it is when I throw a service declaration out there,
and Noah Kantrowitz's fantastic `poise-service` Chef cookbook abstracts that
away for me.)

~~~
feld
I spent a day fighting to get systemd to properly handle bind mounts on boot.
It doesn't reliably mount them and there are tons of blog and forum posts
complaining about it. It also surprised us that it doesn't obey the "bg" flag
for NFS. You have to use "nofail" instead.

I have been informed today that a new MySQL cluster built at work on CentOS
7.3 doesn't reliably start MySQL on boot.

We have none of these problems with our FreeBSD servers. systemd eats away at
my time every week and I loathe it. It might not be a nuisance for endusers
but it's a nightmare for sysadmins.

~~~
JdeBP
MySQL is a topic of discussion on the systemd-devel mailing list right now,
coincidentally.

* [https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2017-Ap...](https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2017-April/038626.html)

~~~
feld
The finger pointing in this thread is astonishing

------
hazeii
Having run Debian both with and without systemd, I'm keen to try this out.
Every time I hit an issue with systemd, the fix seems to involve a script
anyway so experience has pushed me back to sysvinit (admittedly I'm biased in
having a preference for systems simple and transparent enough I can be
reasonably sure I can fix them without recourse to outside help).

Whether Devuan works better than Debian with the usual systemd removal remains
to be seen, of course.

~~~
orf
What problems have you hit?

------
mtanski
Does anybody really care? It took a long enough to get an RC out (3 years).

~~~
Sphax
Exactly. I hope this doesn't gain traction because last thing I want as
someone just writing services is dealing with sysvinit

~~~
kasabali
You hope this doesn't gain traction because you're selfish? Devuan people
aren't forcing you to write anything other than unit files. Support whatever
you want and let other people freely developing their own distributions.
because free software.

~~~
Sphax
They can do whatever they want, I just hope nobody follows their path because
as a user sysvinit is objectively worse than systemd.

~~~
JdeBP
The nonsense in your thinking is your belief that the two choices are System 5
rc and systemd, and that therefore "their path" must be the former. You need
not have even read the headlined page too far to have found
[https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom/](https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom/)
which gives the lie to that. The Devuan people are quite wrong about Debian
and OpenRC, but the point here is that they don't force upon you that binary
choice any more than anyone else does and _what they themselves outright tell
you_ about their path contradicts your thinking.

The whole it-is-a-binary-choice-between-systemd-and-system-5-rc idea is
bunkum, a myth. It wasn't true on Debian, where the hoo-hah had votes amongst
upstart, OpenRC, systemd, and System 5 rc. It wasn't true on Ubuntu and
Fedora, which had both been using upstart for years before their respective
switches to systemd. It isn't true on Devuan, per what is right in front of
you stated by the Devuan people theirselves. It is discussed amongst several
other myths at
[http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/](http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/)
. You are propounding it.

------
JdeBP
That is just the WWW site root. The announcement proper is at
[https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-candidate-
announce-...](https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-candidate-
announce-042017) .

------
jwn
Anyone care to explain why SystemD is so contentious to the point it's worth
forking Debian?

~~~
zitterbewegung
People who oppose SystemD dislike the fact that it takes on two much
responsibilities and unneeded complexity as an init system. People who like it
accept the added responsibilities and complexity because it has widespread
adoption and works .

------
Proven
I like it, but it's been a long wait.

It seems only x64 at first.

Devuan will do okay. Simple and stable distros will always have loyal users.

