
“Dune” Endures (2013) - smacktoward
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/dune-endures
======
Pfhreak
> Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language.

The spice must flow?

Fear is the mind killer?

Christopher Walken dancing to Fatboy Slim's "Weapon of Choice" includes the
phrase "Walk without a rhythm, you won't attract the worm".
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8)

Maybe to a lesser extent, "He who controls the spice controls the universe",
"wheels within wheels", and the gom jabbar are all things I've heard people
reference.

It's definitely entered the language. Maybe not as deeply as Star Wars, but
it's not absent either.

~~~
609venezia
These phrases are probably much more popular among the Hacker News reading
crowd than the broader culture, I would bet.

~~~
fingerlocks
I've heard _fear is the mind killer_ used in the skiing in rock climbing
scene. It's used as to encourage someone that is nervous about skiing a
narrow/steep couloir or climbing a route at their physical limit. That crowd
is very bookwormish too.

------
pmoriarty
_" One winter evening, I heard him read my mother a passage about a young man
named Paul Atreides who was forced to place his hand into the blackness of a
box while an old woman, the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, held a poison
needle at his neck, the gom jabbar. Though I didn't realize it at the time,
this was the opening chapter of Dune._

 _Pauls ' hand would feel intense pain, the wrinkled crone told him, but if he
withdrew it from the box she would kill him with the poison needle. I was
transfixed by the drama of the scene and by the strange words... gom jabbar,
Maud'Dib, the Gesserit, jihad, kull wahad.. the throaty, mysterious resonance
of words and names as they rolled off Dad's tongue, in his powerful voice. I
was intrigued by the sounds. And by the way the Reverend Mother used "the
Voice" on Paul to control him, similar to methods my father often employed
against me._

 _" The language is beautiful," Mom said, after listening to the chapter.
Frequently over the years she spoke of the poetry of his writing, and rarely
made suggestions for improvement in that area. Her comments primarily
concerned plot when she thought he was getting too convoluted, and
characterization, particularly the motivational aspects of female characters._

 _I heard Dad speak passages aloud in his study as he wrote them, before
presenting them to my mother. He understood the psychology of human society,
the way stories had been told orally for centuries before anything was ever
written down. The way troubadours and jongleurs traveled from castle to
castle, telling tales and singing songs. He believed readers subconsciously
heard the written text through their ears, receiving them as oral
transmissions. As a consequence, he labored long hours to obtain just the
right word selection and rhythm. The best writing, he believed, touched the
subconscious._

 _He enjoyed relating his stories to my mother, a process that recalled times
as a boy spent around scouting campfires when he captivated the attention of
scouts and scoutmasters alike. It brought back as well darkened bedrooms Frank
Herbert shared with his cousins, in which they hung on his every word. Mom
enjoyed hearing his tales. She was an excellent listener, as she had been in
her childhood when her Scottish father told her clever mystery stories about
caves and secret panels... "_

\-- Brian Herbert on his father, Frank Herbert

~~~
s_Hogg
Why is Brian Herbert as lucid as this talking about his dad, but so terrible
when trying to write a book following on from his work? Bit of a puzzle to me.

~~~
gamblor956
Money. Kevin J Anderson actually did most of the writing of the Dune Prequels
and post-Frank sequels, and is quite possibly the worst SF writer that has
ever lived.

(KJA is and was married to the editor-in-chief of Banta mSpectra, the imprint
with the book licensing rights to Star Wars and Dune. This is the only reason
he was allowed anywhere near these series.)

~~~
throw0101a
I wonder if we can cast the current prequels into the eternal darkness and
start with new ones made by a good writer.

------
phlakaton
No book with an Iron Maiden song made in its tribute qualifies as "not having
penetrated the popular culture." It's merely taken a path through the culture
more befitting its challenging material.

It is not a book for tawdry conventions and endless merchandising. It is a
book for parents to introduce to their children, with a sly smile, on a free
weekend, when they have come of age.

It's the progressive rock of science fiction novels. ;-)

~~~
stevekemp
For the curious the song is "To Tame a Land (1983)", and was going to be
called Dune, but permission was not granted.

When I think of unexpected Maiden I recall The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner,
but this was a good crossover too.

~~~
ozim
I am not amused by that song, feels like cheap capitalization on "Dune"
popularity at the time. Lyrics are nothing special, sounds are quite ok but I
take "Wasted years" over this any time. Sounds like Sabbaton, who is
capitalizing on "battle songs" for different countries.

It is not like I don't like Iron Maiden but yeah, there is some metal band
somewhere doing "Harry Potter" metal song. Though maybe I am too cynical :)

~~~
stevekemp
I've bought every Maiden album released, up until the mid nineties, and I'd
rate that particular track as "forgetable" rather than "bad".

It's definitely a track I'd skip more often than not if I'm listening to my
Maiden playlist. The addition of a voiceover, which I think I recall they
planned, in the intro might have made an interesting difference. Much like the
other crossover piece I now remember, The Prisoner.

------
tschellenbach
You can download the original Dune game and play it on your macbook:
[https://gamesnostalgia.com/game/dune](https://gamesnostalgia.com/game/dune)

One of my all time favorite games, played it on the amiga originally

~~~
song
Interestingly both dune and dune 2 were released around the same time and both
are amazing. Dune 2 created the rts genre while Dune was a wonderful
combination of adventure and strategy.

For Dune, I'd recommend the CD version
[https://www.freegameempire.com/games/Dune-
CD](https://www.freegameempire.com/games/Dune-CD)

There's a great series of articles on Filfre about both games and the Dune
universe [https://www.filfre.net/2018/11/controlling-the-spice-
part-1-...](https://www.filfre.net/2018/11/controlling-the-spice-part-1-dune-
on-page-and-screen/)

~~~
Scoundreller
And some nice drum and bass sampling/quoting here:

DJ Aphrodite - Spice ( Of The Gods Remix )

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Td5sSdbRQE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Td5sSdbRQE)

~~~
avyeed_desa
Also a Drum & Bass classic:

Paradox - A Certain Sound

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4PeZ6YsbQ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4PeZ6YsbQ8)

~~~
z0r
And trance:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFvB1oNOC0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFvB1oNOC0)

------
richk449
Author seems overly dismissive of the sequels. While they aren’t as great as
the first, many of them are still very good books with interesting ideas. The
stuff written by others (not Frank Herbert) on the other hand, does seem to be
dreck based on my sampling.

~~~
apocalypstyx
As with the Matrix, the main problem with the sequels is that they deconstruct
the basic geek power fantasies set up at the start.

~~~
609venezia
Well said. I didn't get them when I was younger and still had the power
fantasies. Now "I've loved you for 5,000 years" is what really gets me.

------
thelazydogsback
> “Dune” ’s lack of true fandom among science-fiction fans

I'm not sure what sci-fi fans he's hanging out with...

> This de-emphasis on technology

There is de-emphasis on _thinking_ technology -- there is still "magic level"
technology everywhere else.

~~~
RangerScience
"What do such machines really do? They increase the number of things we can do
without thinking. Things we do without thinking — there's the real danger." \-
Leto II (in God-Emperor of Dune)

------
harry8
"Rez", with or without the trance vibrator. With or without the ps4 vr kit.

"Fear is the mind killer" liberally riffed the deep house, electronic, call it
whatever, is awesome...

No popular culture penetration..?

Edit link:

[https://youtu.be/ucuhA-GSGEg](https://youtu.be/ucuhA-GSGEg)

------
m0zg
I've finally listened to it when I did a 4K mile road trip last year. I highly
recommend the Audible rendition of it. It's amazing, and adds the experience
you would not get from the book. There are several well-cast voice actors in
it, so it's not just a dude reading the book. I especially recommend listening
to it as you drive alone through Wyoming in the dead of the night. Experience
I will savor when I'm on my deathbed.

------
koboll
>As David Itzkoff noted in 2006, what’s curious about “Dune” ’s stature is
that it has not penetrated popular culture in the way that “The Lord of the
Rings” and “Star Wars” have. There are no “Dune” conventions. Catchphrases
from the book have not entered the language.

The movie next year oughta do it, if the star-studded cast and acclaimed
director are any indication.

~~~
Animats
The last Dune movie (1984) didn't do it.

"It's like The Last Airbender, but with sand."

~~~
cannonedhamster
I might be in the minority but I liked the Dune movie. It introduced the
universe, how it worked, had a solid cast. The movie is clearly one from the
80s with it's dedication to atmosphere.

~~~
airstrike
What you call "dedication to atmosphere" felt just too over the top to many
others.

From one other review:

 _" The second scene depicts the mysterious “Guild Navigator,” a brainiac
character Lynch devises as a literal giant talking brain floating in a tank of
brine. His mouth is triangular-shaped. There’s really no clean way of saying
this, so here goes: It looks like a vagina. And it secretes gas. Lynch likes
to shoot this in graphic close-up, and they’re explicit enough that if you see
the film cut on TV, the editors completely omit these shots."_

[https://www.metro.us/entertainment/in-slight-defense-
david-l...](https://www.metro.us/entertainment/in-slight-defense-david-lynch-
s-dune-isn-t-that-bad/tmWncw---08O6Xetk1qBrk)

I respect your appreciation for the movie, but to most people it's objectively
bad.

From Wikipedia:

 _" In retrospect, Lynch disowned the film and acknowledged he should never
have directed Dune:

I started selling out on Dune. Looking back, it's no one's fault but my own. I
probably shouldn't have done that picture, but I saw tons and tons of
possibilities for things I loved, and this was the structure to do them in.
There was so much room to create a world. But I got strong indications from
Raffaella and Dino De Laurentiis of what kind of film they expected, and I
knew I didn't have final cut."_

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Critical_rece...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_\(1984_film\)#Critical_reception)

~~~
cannonedhamster
Yeah I can see that. It's definitely a personal taste thing. I'm just glad
that many people have so many different things to enjoy.

------
oska
I recently found the Macmillian audiobook of _Dune_ through my local library
service and have been listening to it. It's an 'acted' audiobook in that there
is a narrator but also different voices for speech by the different
characters. It's quite good and has been a nice way to revisit a book that
blew my mind as a 12 year old.

------
RangerScience
IMHO, the works endure in part from the depth and timelessness; the depths
with which is explores human fundamentals, and the relative lack of science
fiction technologies mean it cannot be dated the same way that, say, Asimov's
computers or Star Trek's communicators look odd in light of what is everyday
today.

I've always loved the fourth book the most, and I've always felt it was most
simply described as "Nietzsche's Gay Science, but to a plot." and I will
totally talk about this with anyone who wants to.

------
s_Hogg
It's funny how prescient some of the people in the sixties and seventies were.
I'd lump Alvin Toffler alongside Frank Herbertm personally. They both had a
somewhat weird point about the future (Herbert was kind of looking at a macro
level through Paul, Toffler was kind of thinking about something similar at
the individual level), and I think they're both slowly being proven right in a
way.

------
emmelaich
(2013)

------
rajacombinator
Re-reading Dune many years later I found it to be pretty cringey. Laurence of
Outer Space basically. Maybe the 2nd book was better ...?

~~~
RangerScience
Wow. You, uh, missed, well... a lot. Just on _one_ note, the entire aspect
that the prophecies Paul steps into were literally fabricated as sort of
sleeper memes for later use? Like, of course that's cringe worthy, of course
it reeks of foreign savior complexes, _it was built to be that_.

The next three books get increasingly philosophical and many people don't like
them, but I very much do.

~~~
voxl
This may come as a surprise to the fanatics of Dune, but there are actually
some of us who finished it and just rolled our eyes at the end.

It was subpar for me in just about every way, and cringey would be an apt
description of the entire experience.

~~~
RangerScience
Well, yes. I would go so far to say that _usually_, when one doesn't like
something that many other people do, it's because they're missing what drew
those other people in.

