
AirPods Are Becoming a Platform? - bdr
https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2019/11/19/airpods-are-becoming-a-platform
======
vegardx
There's something very Her-esque
([https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709/))
over the AirPods, at least when they were first released. There's something
futuristic but also realistic about it. Can't really put my finger on it.

One of the features that I feel is glossed over very quickly is Live
Listen[0], especially for an article about it being "a platform". For those
that have family members with hearing loss they are a godsend in noisy
environments like a cafe. Just put an iPhone with tons of processing power and
an array of microphones on the table and let it filter out most of the noise
and send it to the AirPods with impressive low latency. It's truly amazing, if
you have AirPods and an iPhone you should try it. They outperform more
professional solutions by miles. I have only tried it with AirPods, but I can
only imagine how well it works with proper hearing aids that are tuned to the
frequency range.

I wish they'd make an audio loop "bridge" of some sort for Live Listen, as
hearing aids are expensive and available technology from government usually
lags behind 10+ years.

[0] [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT209082)

~~~
boudin
The whole point of hearing aids is to be easily forgotten and to last a day
without the need to charge. I'm quite sure that with a good computer,
profesionnal microphones and some good headphones with a jack you'll have a
better solution with lower latency than an iphone and airpods, but that misses
the point of hearing aids

~~~
hombre_fatal
My father doesn't even use his $1000+ hearing aids because he says they just
amplify everything and don't help.

If Airpods + an iPhone on the table can help him out, like making table
conversation more accessible, that would be a big deal. I'll have to look into
it.

The point of Airpods + iPhone here is that they are still highly portable,
people today already carry both around just for fun. Your desktop PC + mic
setup is not.

~~~
jjeaff
That's not the way high end hearing aids are supposed to work, at all. You can
buy $20 off the shelf hearing aids that just amplify everything.

Although $1,000 is not quite what high end hearing aids usually go for. I
usually see prices closer to $3000+.

------
KaiserPro
This is peak tech journalism: uncritical wishful thinking.

A strong claim, I know, but hear me out.

1) these are very small bluetooth headphones.

2) They only work when attached to a smart phone

3) They are still headphones.

Another thing to note is that they are still a substandard user experience
compared to 3.5mm jack and decent headphones ($50+ with non tangle wires)

Bluetooth headphones are great if you want to not have to fiddle with wires.
But, they are capricious and run out of batteries.

The pros have both noise isolation _and_ reduction. But, they are still let in
a boat load of noise, especially speaking.

For long term use, you have to sacrifice isolation for comfort. For the same
price as airpod pros you can get custom moulded in ear monitors. 35db of noise
reduction, and they don't hurt.

The real selling point of ear buds is the fashion part. People are wearing
them because they are a signal of how rich/successful they are. (in the same
way people wore those shitty ipod ear buds.)

As for a platform, what are they going to do to be useful? "intelligent
noise"? but that requires situational awareness that doesn't exist on
smartphones yet.

They will be swept aside as soon as decent AR wearable pop onto the scene. Be
that in 3 or 15 years.

~~~
csomar
> People are wearing them because they are a signal of how rich/successful
> they are.

They are 150-250 bucks a piece. If people are wearing them as status signal
then we have real gone downhill a lot.

~~~
jankiehodgpodge
That comes across quite snobbishly to be honest. People pay several thousands
for jewelry or watches as they expect them to last many years or decades.

$200 dollars is a lot of money for a device that in most cases will last a
year or two and there are plenty of alternatives that do the same for a fifth
of the price. Especially in the context of teenagers using them as a status
symbol.

~~~
csomar
But also people pay dozens of thousands to hundreds of thousands for a vehicle
that will last a little bit longer than an airpod (at least from a status
point of view).

My point is, a status symbol is something unachievable by most people
regardless (like a Yacht or a Ferrari). An airdpod can be bought by almost
anyone in the US if that's their priority.

~~~
willis936
You can have a useable vehicle for 5 years with a $10,000 upfront cost and
$5,000 in maintenance. That’s something people need to operate in the US. Yes,
a brand new Tesla is a status symbol just the same as $250 purely optional
luxury items are.

If your question is “Doesn’t everyone have disposable income?” The answer is
no.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)

------
jeethsuresh
This seems a little far-fetched.

There's a great quote from someone whose name escapes me right now, about the
definition of a platform being when revenue generated by software running on
the device far outpaces revenue generated by sales of the device itself. I've
always liked that definition, and it seems accurate to me based on historical
evidence (PCs - definitely a platform. Smartwatches - definitely not).

In this test, the airpods fail abysmally - not only do they not allow for
revenue generation today, they don't even allow for third party developers to
use their hardware features in any capacity. In fact, the main use-case for
airpods appears to be efficiency and convenience when combined with Siri. All
three "sources" described by the article fail to define for me the benefit
users will gain from airpods as a platform, and instead have done an excellent
job of convincing me that users will benefit far more from treating airpods as
a product.

Compounding this is the fact that most computing platforms are primarily
visual in their interactions with their users - this is clearly no
coincidence. Visual interfaces allow developers to surface many pieces of
information at once, and they allow users to absorb information at a pace that
is variable (based on context) and comfortable to them. Aural platforms don't
have this capability, and the context that they assume is often wrong. For
example, I've been driving a lot these past few days, and one of the worst
Apple-built experiences I've ever had occurred when I needed to stop for gas.
Not only was I directed to a gas station I had already passed (driving on the
freeway), but when I wanted to navigate to another gas station there was no
way (obvious or not) for me to tell Siri to find me a gas station ahead of me.
In fact, there was no way to confirm where any of the gas stations Siri found
me were in relation to me, without looking at my screen.

One more thing: Aural platforms are exclusively serial. They surface one piece
of information at a time, and in fact they would be less usable if they
surfaced any more than that (or surfaced each piece of information any
quicker). This alone, I feel, makes them unsuitable platforms in today's
world.

Edit: randall found the quote, by Bill Gates: 'Gates said something along the
lines of, “That’s a crock of shit. This isn’t a platform. A platform is when
the economic value of everybody that uses it, exceeds the value of the company
that creates it. Then it’s a platform.”' [1]

[1] [https://stratechery.com/2018/the-bill-gates-
line/](https://stratechery.com/2018/the-bill-gates-line/)

~~~
randall
>>There's a great quote from someone whose name escapes me right now

Bill Gates. You're looking for Bill Gates.

[https://stratechery.com/2018/the-bill-gates-
line/](https://stratechery.com/2018/the-bill-gates-line/)

~~~
johnnycab
More recently, the concept been distilled by the current Microsoft CEO,
without indulging in apophasis.

 _He goes on to contrast the role of companies such as Microsoft with that of
aggregators, which dominate a market by amassing far more content than rivals
— like Google and Facebook Inc. in online media, or Amazon in e-commerce.
Referring to how companies like these work, he says: “You commoditize supply.
You’re even sort of commoditizing the demand, in some ways. That’s a very
different dynamic.”_

[https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-21...](https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-21/satya-
nadella-reinvigorated-microsoft)

------
kejaed
When I look at AirPods and AirPods Pro I don’t necessarily see a platform, but
what I do see is the 2nd wearable hit from Apple (after the Apple Watch), and
what is likely the basis for their AR platform.

Wearable, miniature, real-time allow-latency (audio) processing and with the
precise indoor location tracking on the iPhone 11 series, I see Apple setting
the technology stage (as the often do) for a true platform, AR, with these
technologies coming together.

This is one of the pieces I’ve been meaning to write up for my audience of
zero...

------
msci100
I don't know if I necessarily agree the line of thinking that Airpod users
will buy more than one pair, but the potential to push Airpod Pro's syncing
capabilities to other rooms is interesting.

A fun example would be to use Airpod Pros as walkie talkies with other Pro
users in the same house or area.

Definitely would interested in tinkering with any Dev kit came out for
building Airpod apps.

~~~
soneil
Buying more than one pair happens quite easily - I did, but I didn’t set out
to do so. When the second generation came out, I upgraded for the wireless
charging. I tend to sleep with one in (a pre-existing habit, and as I’m an
“active sleeper”, one that benefitted from being freed from the tangle), so I
kept the previous pair as my bed-pair. This usage is noticeably detrimental to
the battery, so I figured keeping the old ones like this would save me doing
the same damage to the next pair.

Now I’be upgraded again to the pros, but kept the gen2 because they better fit
the times that I only have one in one ear (which the pros don’t seem to suit
well at all).

So I now have three pairs, not because I wanted three pairs - but because the
situational uses I’ve found for them, feel more appropriate than discarding
them while they still work. And I can’t imagine this is going to be a very
rare outlier, thanks to the huge ick component of their resale value.

~~~
msci100
Interesting! That's a great example of why to have multiple pairs. Learn
something new every day.

------
LeoPanthera
The Pro Airpods simply don’t fit my ears. The left one could be made to fit
with some determined wiggling, but the right one would never make a seal, and
the phone would complain that the seal was bad. I returned them.

I can’t imagine that I am _that_ unique. It’s especially odd, as I own the
first generation “regular” airpods, and they fit just fine.

~~~
zarriak
Did it still happen with the different sizes of ear tips? That sounds very
odd.

~~~
LeoPanthera
Yep. Tried them all.

------
jonplackett
I had a really weird experience with my AirPods Pro.

I was cooking with the noise cancelling turned on and I sliced off half my
fingernail with a potato peeler, right down between the nail and the finger.
It was pretty gross.

But I had the noise cancelling on and as I looked at my finger I had this
weird out of body experience where I couldn’t feel anything and just felt
completely separate from it - I had to take the AirPods out before I could
come to grips with the situation and do anything about it.

That noise cancellation is powerful stuff. I can see how it could transport
you maybe even as much as VR

~~~
nneonneo
There are a whole bunch of reasons (physiological and psychological) why
getting a cut like that produces a delayed sensation of pain. Psychologically,
if you're deeply concentrated in something (e.g. immersed in listening to
music), you might be subject to a form of delayed perception. Physiologically,
the cut area may not send pain signals until an inflammatory response mounts
against the bleeding. These could combine to produce a significant delay in
your (conscious) perception of the wound, even without something like the
AirPods.

(One could argue the degree to which it isolates you from the environment
acoustically might also be insulating you from heeding your environment at all
- sounds like something that might be worth studying!)

~~~
allovernow
Adrenaline also quickly increases and can totally mask pain. Even if one feels
relatively calm.

~~~
jonplackett
It wasn't so much the pain. It was like a kind of paralysis because I didn't
feel like I was quite there.

The AirPods didn't even have any music playing, just the ANC turned on.

------
DiabloD3
Unfortunately, wireless headphones will never take off until they either
permanently fix Bluetooth, or replace it with a better protocol that _doesn 't
drop signal from my pocket to my head_.

Seriously, get your shit together, guys. And no, AirPods aren't magically
immune, in fact, their bifurcated nature makes it worse.

Edit: For those asking/stating "they already took off", not really. Most
people do not own headphones, do not want headphones, and most people keep
owning or keep buying wired headphones; even if the numbers say more wireless
sold, it isn't backwards facing enough, and doesn't include all the wired
pairs people already own, it also doesn't include ones included in the box.

The two largest complaints I always hear is either the device connectivity is
garbage, the device audio quality is garbage, or the comfort is fucking
horrible compared to similarly priced wired earbuds and IEMs.

Too many corners are cut to make these things work, and most consumers just
aren't happy. So, they didn't take off if _most people hate them_ , you have
to have one hell of a RDF-boner for that industry to argue otherwise.

Also, /r/headphones says hi.

~~~
maxsilver
I'm pretty sure you have a defective unit somewhere. Bluetooth isn't perfect,
but it's definitely not "drop signal from my pocket" bad unless you have some
weird specific-to-you problem.

AirPods work reasonably well. My _cheap knock-off_ AirPods ($50 Anker
Soundcore) work really well. I can drop my phone and walk into the next room
and still have full audio without losing signal. The battery life is basically
the same as my wireless headset, despite being a tiny fraction of the size.
They sound just as good as any pair of $20 wired earbuds I've ever used.

Yes, they aren't perfect (the dual MacBook + iPhone pairing handoff thing
seems sometimes problematic. And they are easy to lose). But they aren't
trash. These products sell reasonably well because they _work_ reasonably
well.

~~~
secondo
I don’t fully agree with parent about all drawbacks for wireless headphones
but I do agree with Bluetooth having issues. In particular in Apple hardware.
My AirPods will drop out if I cover my iPhone 11 Pro with my hand in my
pocket. My Bose NC 700 will either drop out or cause my magic keyboard to lose
connection if they are too close to my MacBook Pro. I’ve learned to live with
these things as I understand they are minuscule problems to have, but the
point still stands. Bluetooth has issues.

~~~
maxsilver
> My AirPods will drop out if I cover my iPhone 11 Pro with my hand in my
> pocket. (snip) Bluetooth has issues.

To be perfectly honest, that doesn't sound like a bluetooth problem at all.
That sounds like an Apple defect in their product.

~~~
saagarjha
I’ve had similar issues across multiple AirPods and iPhones.

------
rsp1984
Forget platforms, the real prize is making the form factor comfortable enough
for side sleepers and making the battery last 8+ hours (duration of a good
nights sleep).

The number of people on the planet with bedroom noise problems is vastly
larger than the number of audiophiles. _Plus_ the value created per customer
would be dramatically higher.

Solve these issues and I can see AirPods being a $50B / year business.

~~~
theNJR
I sleep with one AirPod in. Have been since 2016.

~~~
germinalphrase
What is your purpose in doing so? Background tones? Notifications?

~~~
theNJR
Background sound. Usually reruns of The Office, which is a bit absurd but it
helps me fall asleep. It’s now a conditioned response.

------
hayksaakian
A lot of "could" and "would" to speculate about airpods becoming a platform.

The article vastly overpromises and underdelivers

------
ck425
I don't see what is unique about airpods that an androids supplier couldn't
replicate in terms of the platform stuff.

Also I expect the growing trend of disconnecting from technology will hit
immersive technology forms like audio particularly hard.

~~~
briandear
> I don't see what is unique about airpods that an androids supplier couldn't
> replicate in terms of the platform stuff.

The W2 chip, that’s what.

~~~
brian-armstrong
You are right, Apple holds an exclusive right to any novel RF or DSP
techniques.

------
dpflan
> “Another example involves utilizing AirPods to deliver different sound
> experiences to different people despite being in the same location and
> looking at the same thing. As an example, a single presentation shown in a
> school or office setting can end up delivering a dozen different experiences
> to those in attendance.“

Devil’s Advocate: Personalized, targeted advertising? A presentation that is
different per user requires a model for that person, I’m not quite sure how
useful this example is except if we’re talking about foreign language
translation.

~~~
abraCadabstrax
I think translation (or rather interpretation) is actually a wonderful use
case. My experience with doing simultaneous interpretation for large
conferences usually means that the cost of maintaining and providing listening
devices is borne by the interpretation company. Providing your own listening
device, especially such a high-grade device as what this purports to be,
offers an interesting cost reduction and performance improvement.

------
zarriak
I think the vast majority of people on the airpods to airpods pro path are on
because like most people they hate the apple hard plastic headphones.

The reason that the people that have both pairs they polled is because the
people in their family/friend group that they would give them to don't have
airpods specifically because they hate the hard plastic.

It is very interesting that they still look quite stupid when you see people
wear them but it is enough of a different type of stupid than google glass
that people won't laugh at you out loud in public.

~~~
Animats
From the article: _" This technology prowess and manufacturing acumen goes to
waste if people don’t actually want to be seen wearing the devices. Apple’s
success at redefining luxury, combined with the company’s design-led culture,
gives the company a large advantage in the area of understanding what people
will want to wear on the body."_

Apple, after all, is the company that successfully positioned white-wire
earphones as cool. Users could easily have been ridiculed as "iDweebs", like
Google's "Glassholes".

~~~
saagarjha
They were for a while when AirPods first came out. Remember the “toothbrush
head” images that were going around?

------
elagost
Lots of people in this thread seem to be fighting about whether AirPods (and
wireless headphones in general) are a viable product or not. "Wires are not a
hassle and provide a better experience most of the time" crowd, vs. "Wires are
awful and I'll take all the drawbacks of wireless just to get rid of them"
crowd.

Generally, won't people who care about headphones own multiple pairs of
headphones? I have a cheap pair of liquid-resistant bluetooth buds for
workouts, and they work great for that but sound pretty bad. For walking or
home use, I use either a wired set of nicer earbuds, or some wired over-ear
headphones that sound amazing.

All of them combined cost less than airpods, too. If you care enough to spend
money on headphones and not just use the wired pack-in ones that come with
most devices, would one not just do an hour of research before spending almost
$200 on something with a very obviously limited lifespan?

And as far as airpods being a platform: the author seems to think "sensors =
platform". They're a nicely integrated part of Apple's whole mobile platform,
but not a platform themselves. You can't use airpods by themselves, so how
does that make them a platform?

------
SirHound
The point about people owning multiple AirPods is a weird tangent and not
something I expect to play a major part of their strategy.

However I totally buy the rest of this and used to think something similar
when they were first released. They haven’t done much in the meantime but with
the Pros capabilities and the location detection of the iPhone 11 I think
we’re only just at a place something interesting could be done.

------
pcarolan
It seems like we've hit a point where someone could have airpods and a mobile
enabled iwatch and accomplish 80% of what needs to be done communication-wise,
namely text, email, voice calls. Has anyone tried this? It might actually
encourage more voice calls due to the interface constraints which might be a
nice side effect (for some).

~~~
Eloso
I have tried it as an experiment to lower my mobile phone usage.

I wanted the ability to make calls, check texts, pay using mobile payments,
and play music without the distraction of mindlessly grabbing for my phone to
browse the Internet whenever a moment of boredom surfaces.

It works quite well. I turned off notifications for emails and texts. Instead,
I check those once an hour or so. If a conversation becomes longer than a
message or two, I call the person or tell them I’ll text them later.

I haven’t been fully able to ditch the phone, but I didn’t intend to. I
experimented with this set up mostly for nights and weekends.

------
xg15
> _In essence, we are moving away from pulling data from various apps to
> receiving a curated feed of data that is dynamic - always changing and
> tailored to our needs._

Is there any indication that _users_ (not designers, developers, businesses or
"the industry") actually want this?

~~~
shuckles
TikTok?

~~~
bori5
What do breath mints have to do with anything

------
Slippery_John
One of the best features of the airpods is seemingly not advertised: in
transparency mode they automatically switch to active noise cancellation if
there is some excessively loud/harmful noise.

I live in a city where I walk everywhere. The audio landscape of a city can be
incredibly harmful. Notably the shrieking of brakes in need of replacement and
the many awful sounds of construction. Walking around with transparency mode
on, even when not listening to anything, has immeasurably improved my quality
of life. I can still be aware of my surroundings without having to deal with
anything but the first few fractions of these hostile noises.

------
jammygit
My air pod microphone stopped working with the iOS 13 update. The only thing I
want is for the basic functionality to work

~~~
takeda
Things like that is why I hate Android followed this stupid trend of removing
DAC. This was working perfectly fine, there was no good reason to "fix" it.

------
tazjin
Now if only they had a wire so I could use them in areas with higher
population density than Silicon Valley.

~~~
therein
Even in San Francisco walking across busy intersections I get significant
enough interference that audio is dropped for 2-3 seconds.

Also is it just me or does the article just talk about how great AirPods are
and how Apple really set it apart from competition this time and killed that
silent launch but never really even tries to support or justify this opinion?

~~~
itg
Looked at the history of AboveAvalon, seems like a site that tries to justify
everything Apple does and how great they are.

Speaking of AirPods, their sound quality isn't all that great. I ended up
getting the Galaxy Buds which were cheaper and sounded better.

------
neya
I currently own a 1000xm3. My colleague recently just bought an Airpods pro
and was going on for ages about how awesome it is. I offered him to try out my
XM3s. He tried them out for 15 mins. I never heard another word from him
again. See, my colleague's behaviour is what many bloggers and self-proclaimed
journalists exhibit today. They try out one thing and simply go on to write
about how superior it is.

The Sony XM3s have all the functionality in the AirPods pro with so much more.
For example, you can swipe your fingers over the headphone housing and it will
do different things depending on the direction of the swipe. They provide you
an app to configure this and the buttons on the headphone itself. Not to
mention, they also allow you to enable high resolution codecs, equalizer and
surround sound from the app itself. The sound quality (which is one of the
reasons people buy headphones for) is also vastly superior on the Sony's.

So, it's not an apples to apples comparison, yes (Headphones vs Earphones)?

Ok, In addition to my Sony's, I also have the Galaxy earbuds. It also
supported swipe gestures and configurable actions via the app which is tightly
integrated with Galaxy phones. The sound quality is superior and has
officially been benchmarked by consumer reports to be the same as well[1].
Nothing what the author is excited about here is unique just to Apple even in
terms of strategy or technology. IF anything, it's confusing nomenclature
bundled with mediocre hardware.

[1] [https://www.consumerreports.org/headphones/apple-airpods-
vs-...](https://www.consumerreports.org/headphones/apple-airpods-vs-samsung-
galaxy-buds-earphones-face-off/)

The author simply needs go out and try other brands of headphones.

~~~
1123581321
I suspect your colleague was more bemused than shamed by your comparison.
Wireless buds are considered a different product category from headphones due
to market perception as well as how and when they are used. Some people find
Airpods to be nice to use everywhere; those who prefer headphone audio quality
use them when convenient.

------
anonu
I would also add that there is a custom chip design in the airpods (m1?). In
terms of "sucking the oxygen out of the market", it's a lot easier when your
competition can't even come close to the level of tech savvy you put into your
hardware

~~~
FireBeyond
How is it a failing of their competitors "tech savvy" that Apple put a custom
chip for which they are able to embed support in the OS, and won't share /
license?

~~~
anonu
It's not so much a failure by the competition. My point is that Apple raises
the bar so much by building a custom chip. A custom chip raises the bar on
user experience: faster bluetooth connection times, longer battery life. What
does the R&D cost for that chip? $100 million? Thats a complete guess - but
totally within the realm of possibility given how much cash Apple sits on...

Do you think the next viable competitor can spend that kind of money?

------
dzhiurgis
Apple could easily add eSIM to AirPods (probably makes more sense to put into
care) to enable fully wireless life experience. Make them even smaller and it
could challenge neuralink for a while (especially for Alexa generation).

~~~
4ad
The Apple Watch is hundreds of times bigger in volume and putting eSIM inside
was a huge engineering challenge, one that still comes with MANY caveats. I
don't see how it's feasible to put eSIM in earphones with current and next-gen
technology.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Problem still is Apple is tasting third party modem. 5G SOC could be more than
feasible. Putting it into charging case is piece of cake.

------
TurkishPoptart
As an Android user (begrudgingly) I hate bluetooth. It never works the way it
should. My impression is that iPhone users have no issue with it.

------
tootie
Jabra Elites are better and cost less.

~~~
lostdog
This previous thread suggests that Jabra's are pretty terrible:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19095576](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19095576)

Do you know if the product line has improved since then?

~~~
tootie
It's the top rated by Wirecutter right now. I mostly use them just paired with
my phone but I haven't had trouble using then with whatever when I've needed
to.

------
stopads
Oh please, they sold us on a fake problem and then the cure by removing ports.
That's not innovation. That's not a platform.

iPhones could all have usb ports and audio jacks and removable storage.
Nothing is preventing any of that. Stop pretending Apple is moving the ball
forward here.

~~~
briandear
Wires get tangled. To switch from your iPhone to Mac, you unplug the wire and
plug it in again. Then there is the question of having to remain within wires
length of the machine. AirPods actually made wireless headphones usable and
dead simple.

~~~
josteink
> To switch from your iPhone to Mac, you unplug the wire and plug it in again.

So you are saying there is a _standard_ -mechanism for _interoperability_
between units from any vendor, and it’s mirrored in a highly _discoverable_
physical interface which always reflects how things are connected, so there’s
never any confusion or need for debugging? And no need for firmware updates or
charging?

That sounds just about perfect to me, like a dream come true! When will the
iPhone support this amazing, new technology without the need for proprietary
dongles? I can’t wait!

------
hootbootscoot
just wait til the charger becomes one...

bluetooth audio IS lo-fi, on purpose, but whatever floats your 64kbps Real
Audio boat, I suppose...(I'm an OGG Vorbis person myself, lol)

~~~
hootbootscoot
I can't believe no one mentioned the optional subwoofer er "plug" yet...it's
like a meme and stuff already...

------
torgian
Eh.

