
Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet - pavel
http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-diabetes-extreme-diet-06252011,0,7790769.story
======
knowtheory
To be clear, onset of type2 diabetes is tied in with weight and health.

My wife (who studied dietetics/food & nutrition) while at university
volunteered for a pre-diabetes program whose sole purpose was to stress to
people who were at high risk for developing type2 diabetes that they could
stave off the effects of the disease by eating more healthily, and explaining
how they could accomplish it.

The vastly important thing to stress here is that a reduction of the level of
fat is the important part, _not_ starving themselves. Presumably other forms
of weight loss (as a means to better overall health) would have the same sorts
of effects.

Starving one's self should not be taken as the first step that people should
reach for, and even if people were to do so, they should make absolutely sure
that they're still getting proper nutrition so that they are losing weight
safely.

tl;dr: it's unhealthy to be morbidly obese. Your health improves if you stop
being morbidly obese. That can include the effects of type 2 diabetes.

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niels_olson
I did my surgical internship at a hospital with a substantial bariatrics
service. Yes. Starvation will cure type 2 diabetes. Overnight. Roux-en-Y
patients often have normal blood sugars by the time they're out of the OR. We
would watch them for 48 hours and their blood sugar didn't go back up. When
they came in for follow-up, still down. It works. Like a champ.

I would like to reply to more comments here, but it's past midnight and my
battery is dying. Maybe more tomorrow.

But, yeah, in general, type 2 diabetes is almost universally a consequence of
over-eating.

~~~
carbocation
I came here to say the same thing. While on my bariatric surgery rotation, the
attending surgeons all said much what you said above with regards to
normalizing blood sugars. One of them felt that the majority of her patients
normalized their blood sugars _pre-op_ thanks to their preoperative fast...

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gwern
The original paper: <http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/Lim.pdf>

> After the baseline measurements, individuals with type 2 diabetes started
> the diet, which consisted of a liquid diet formula (46.4% carbohydrate,
> 32.5% protein and 20.1% fat; vitamins, minerals and trace elements; 2.1
> MJ/day [510 kcal/day]; Optifast; Nestlé Nutrition, Croydon, UK). This was
> supplemented with three portions of non-starchy vegetables such that total
> energy intake was about 2.5 MJ (600 kcal)/day. Participants were provided
> with sugges- tions of vegetable recipes to enhance compliance by varying
> daily eating. They were also encouraged to drink at least 2 l of water or
> other energy-free beverages each day, and asked to maintain their habitual
> level of physical activity. Ongoing support and encouragement was provided
> by means of regular telephone contact. At the end of the 8 week intervention
> participants returned to normal eating but were provided with information
> about portion size and healthy eating.

------
nhebb
I suspect the word cure is used capriciously here. Remission would probably be
a better term. I know this study made a splash on Drudge the other day, but
the response over on diabetesforums.com was much more measured:

[http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/scientific-
studies/60390...](http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/scientific-
studies/60390-interesting-study-reversing-type.html)

~~~
m104
Right, well the whole point to a "cure" is to not have to make lifestyle
adjustments. Anyone who's looking to be rid of their diabetes without having
to adjust their lifestyle is going to be disappointed by this research and
it's conclusions. In fact, I imagine that some sufferers will be outright
livid once they realize the full implications of the research results.

Basically, we're getting more conclusive research showing that type 2 diabetes
(runs in my family) is a lifestyle disease. In other words: if you are
diagnosed with type 2, it's your own fault.

Specifically, insulin resistance is caused by higher-than-normal levels of fat
in the liver and pancreas. Belly fat doesn't matter much. Arm fat doesn't
matter much. It's the fat in your organs that's gumming up the works. People
are more or less prone to developing fatty organs, so diabetes rates vary
between genetic/family backgrounds.

To me, this is all fantastic news. I imagine that many of us are prepared to
make a few comfort sacrifices in order to avoid these types of diseases. There
is still a very persistent mindset, though, that all body issues (even
obesity) are caused by external factors and that the sufferers are just
helpless victims. I wouldn't expect that anyone trapped in the "my type 2 is
out of my control, but the cure is just around the corner" mindset is going to
be welcoming of the crash diet research.

------
delackner
So much argument here with extreme positions and blanket absolute statements,
I am a little surprised.

What you eat is inextricably linked to your body's proper functioning and,
yes, risk for a variety of diseases.

Thinking just about calories is meaningless. A single calorie of glucose /
fructose / fat / alcohol / gasoline are simply not at all the same. Even the
same ingredients (those useless nutritional composition labels) affect the
body totally differently depending on how they are structured.

1 gram of pureed corn for instance will burn very differently from 1 gram of
steamed corn kernels, versus that same 1 gram, popped.

It is a massive failure of education that people are surprised to hear that
eating poorly leads to increased risk of disease.

Arguing that diet has no effect on disease is like suggesting that you could
just live on glucose, a multivitamin, and water. Try that for a week and your
body will be in full-on war against you. Actually, please don't.

------
espeed
The benefits from fasting and/or eliminating sugar and starches from your diet
comports with Robert Lustig's research on sugar toxicity
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2472019>).

------
frankus
It would be interesting to see if a fat- and protein-sparing fast (i.e. Atkins
diet) would work as well. Apparently it's much easier to eat a semi-starvation
diet by eliminating nearly all carbohydrates than by simply cutting back
calories in general.

~~~
jokull
Good point. Reversing type 2 diabetes comes when insulin sensitivity is gained
back. For this to happen I believe a low carb diet should be enough, not a
caloric restriction, but merely the elimination of foods that spike blood
sugar. Would like to see clinical results of a strict Atkins / Paleo type diet
for this group.

~~~
sliverstorm
Did you actually read the article? The hypothesis has nothing to do with
insulin itself, and everything to do with reducing fat deposits in the
pancreas.

~~~
watmough
As the article says, that was just a hypothesis. There's no mention of
tracking insulin levels, only blood sugar. And what's more, type diabetes is
described in the article as resistance to insulin.

I can think of at least one further hypothesis, which is that cutting out
indigestible sugars, per Lustig, frees up the liver from the task of
metabolizing fructose/sucrose etc., to respond correctly to insulin, allowing
blood sugar to be regulated.

------
StrawberryFrog
There's a longer and less journalistic article about the same study here:
[http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/06June/Pages/type-2-diabetes-
and...](http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/06June/Pages/type-2-diabetes-and-low-
calorie-diets.aspx)

I wonder it it supports/is related to this line of reasoning:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.htm...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html)

------
schiptsov
There is a significant cultural difference in the matter of treating diseases
between West and East.

In the West people first use a drug (rather tons of them), then, if no
progress was made, a medical assistance, then, changes in behavior as an
inevitable consequence and a restricted diet as a last resort.

In the East (Tibet, for example) people _at fist_ use shifting to an
appropriate diet _and_ behavioral changes, then, medical assistance and a drug
(which is in most cases a placebo) as a last resort.

The differences between these two almost opposite approaches could be easily
seen in the life expectation statistics between poor (common) people in
Tibet/China/Mongolia/Japan and, say, Russia (where they use vodka, in many
cases along with antibiotics, as the first aid) or US where the medicare is
the way to make money, not to heal people, could be easily found in the net.
^_^

~~~
FreeKill
I wonder if that is a direct result of a more profit driven system in the
west? There's no profit in good exercise and diet...

~~~
nodata
Tell that to gyms..

------
antimora
Is it a cure or reversal? According to WebMD, it's not possible to cure
completely. Honestly I am confused between the two definitions.

<http://diabetes.webmd.com/features/reversing-type-2-diabetes>

~~~
G3P
It's a reversal. Cure implies that a disease cannot, under most circumstances,
come back due to the treatment regimen (whether that be diet, drugs,
radiation, etc...). The reason it's a reversal and not a cure is that if a
patient were to "stop treatment," which in this case means revert to a diet
far above daily caloric needs, it is likely insulin resistance will return.

------
ubojan
Or you could eat natural healthy food with exception of flour and sugar
products (and reduction in lentils and dairy) instead of starving yourself:
<http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/>

------
spontaneus
Watch Food Matters on Netflix. A good diet can help cure many diseases.

~~~
zacharypinter
Not to discredit (haven't had a chance to watch yet), but is there scientific
evidence behind this?

~~~
rvanniekerk
Most people tend to discredit diet therapy because it's "not mainstream" or
against the norm.

Of course you don't see nearly as many "studies" on diet therapy as you do a
typical medicine or pill, most scientists and doctors that practice
alternative therapy are considered heretics (cooks, crazy people, etc) and
banished from the "mainstream" portion of the medical world (the one with all
the cash flow).

Look up Dr. Max Gerson and all of the amazing things he's done with the use of
a simple diet therapy consisting mainly of juices and fruits and vegetables. I
would highly recommend his biography - [http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Max-Gerson-
Healing-Hopeless/dp/0976...](http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Max-Gerson-Healing-
Hopeless/dp/0976018616/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1309140433&sr=8-6)

It's a fascinating read and really challenges you to think against the
mainstream medical world.

~~~
arn
for the grandparent poster, the relevant studies on Gerson
[http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/gerson/patient/pa...](http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/gerson/patient/page2)

------
pella
Lifestyle change

\-----------------

 _" Research has shown that people with severe coronary heart disease are able
to halt disease progression or reverse it without drugs or surgery by making
comprehensive lifestyle changes such as managing stress through yoga and
meditation, switching to a low-fat vegetarian diet, stopping smoking,
exercising moderately, and finding social
support.<http://www.pmri.org/publications/1761.pdf>

• The June 2008 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences published a
prostate cancer study demonstrating that lifestyle change can affect gene
expression. The researchers found that improved nutrition, stress management,
walking, and psychosocial support changed the expression of over 500 genes in
men with early-stage prostate cancer.
<http://www.pnas.org/content/105/24/8369>

• A long-term randomized controlled trial of patients with coronary heart
disease showed that Transcendental Meditation practice was associated with a
47 percent reduction in mortality, nonfatal myocardial infarction, and stroke
compared with controls during a five-year follow-up
<http://161.58.228.161/TM_and_mortality.pdf> "_

[http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/06/first-do-
no-...](http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/06/first-do-no-
harm/240538/)

\------------------------

Change or Die ( BY: ALAN DEUTSCHMAN )

Tags: Careers, Work/Life, work life balance, personal growth

<http://www.fastcompany.com/node/52717/print>

 _"What if you were given that choice? For real. What if it weren't just the
hyperbolic rhetoric that conflates corporate performance with life and death?
Not the overblown exhortations of a rabid boss, or a slick motivational
speaker, or a self-dramatizing CEO. We're talking actual life or death now.
Your own life or death. What if a well-informed, trusted authority figure said
you had to make difficult and enduring changes in the way you think and act?
If you didn't, your time would end soon -- a lot sooner than it had to. Could
you change when change really mattered? When it mattered most?

Yes, you say?

Try again.

Yes?

You're probably deluding yourself.

You wouldn't change.

... "_

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tintin
I don't know if it's true, but I heard a story about a man who was cured from
cancer by eating very healthy.

To me it's no surprise the body likes healthy food to maintain the ability to
cure from a lot of things.

(edit: I think T. Colin Campbell is related
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Colin_Campbell>)

------
rvanniekerk
Diet can be used as a form of cure for nearly every disease that exist. So why
not use it more often? Oh right, there is no money to be made...

~~~
arn
This is a tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory reaction.

Define "use it more often". Doctors recommend diet and exercise all the time.
It's the first thing to recommend to patients. It's simply very hard for
people to accomplish it, and the vast majority of people either can't or won't
lose weight.

~~~
ghshephard
"It's the first thing to recommend to patients."

I'm 42, I've been involved with two major medical systems for 30+ years, both
in Canada and the United States (Kaiser) - for one reason or another, I've
been to a doctor maybe a dozen times. For about 15-20 years I was either on
the cusp of obesity, was always overweight - and certainly was never in the
slightest bit of good physical shape.

In that 30+ years, I solemnly swear no medical official has ever made any
recommendations about diet and/or exercise, with one exception of a emergency
room intake doctor giving me some guidance on drinking more water after I was
checked in for dehydration and the second time, when I contacted Kaiser Intake
(half dead from a case of pneumonia ) - and they recommended I drink tea with
a bit of honey. Sum total of diet advice.

In general, the medical system is much more interested in "Fix it when it's
broken" then they are "Prevent it from breaking in the first place."

And they really tend to reach towards surgery/and drugs any time there is a
problem. Some are offended when you suggest that perhaps an affliction might
be diet recommended.

It's not a tin-foil-hat theory reaction. The American Journal of Clinical
Nutrition has any number of peer reviewed observational studies on what
happens to indigenous populations when they encountered western (refined)
diets.

Taubes has an endless number of references in "Good Calories, Bad Calories"
for those who are even moderately interested in how unbelievably important
diet turns out to be when it comes to modern health.

But, where's the money in getting people to lead a healthy lifestyle?

People will need to figure this stuff out for themselves, it certainly won't
be marketed to them the way HFCS laden beverages will be.

~~~
arn
_"I'm 42, I've been involved with two major medical systems for 30+ years,
both in Canada and the United States (Kaiser) - for one reason or another,
I've been to a doctor maybe a dozen times. For about 15-20 years I was either
on the cusp of obesity, was always overweight - and certainly was never in the
slightest bit of good physical shape. In that 30+ years, I solemnly swear no
medical official has ever made any recommendations about diet and/or
exercise"_

I'm 36, I was a physician for 8 years (no longer practicing). I recommended
diet and exercise to many many patients for general prevention and certainly
for anyone with type 2 diabetes. And this was considered standard of care. I
was not the exception.

