
New MacBook Air - xenonite
https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/
======
pyrophane
Keep in mind that probably the most important spec when considering a new
laptop is one that is often not directly stated: the processor series.

I'm not talking about i3/i5/i7, but rather U/Y/H. This letter determines the
TDP (thermal design power/point) them machine is designed to run at. The TDP
will govern the setting for the base clock speed, and, just as importantly,
the throttling behabior under load.

Processor series TDPs are Y: 4.5W, U: 15W, H: 45W.

The new MacBook Air appears to have a Y series processor, like the MacBook,
which means it will be aggressively throttled to keep power consumption and
heat generation low.

Practically, that means that the new Air will not be capable of running
sustained workloads much above its base clock speed, which makes it unsuitable
for many programming-related tasks.

The Pro is still a much better choice for programmers. The 13 is suitable for
many things, but the 16, with the H series processor, is really preferred for
computationally intensive work.

You can get away with this machine if your workflow primary involves a text
editor and remote servers, but otherwise I would still opt for the pro.

~~~
ctvo
This is underestimating modern processors and overestimating programming
compute resource usage.

Your post may apply if we're working with 4K+ resolution video files,
rendering and other activities, but the modern programmer, even compiling
binaries, will be fine on a MacBook Air.

How do I know?

I use a 2 generation old Macbook as my primary personal development machine. I
write Go, Rust, Java and TypeScript using the common tool chains for all those
languages.

~~~
geerlingguy
You haven't been forced to deploy something that builds a local K8s cluster
and builds and runs 10+ containers just to get a microservices app up and
ready for development, I see... (only partially /s).

~~~
baddox
It doesn't even take that much. Docker Desktop on MacOS is widely known to be
terrible and have extremely poor performance. Running webpack-dev-server with
filewatching through Docker nearly grinds my 2017 Macbook Pro to a halt.
Obviously most node/webpack/JS stuff can run natively on Mac but it's not
uncommon to see dev stacks that dockerize everything because that's how the
production stack works.

~~~
bdcravens
You can improve this substantially on MacOS using docker-sync (the issues with
Docker performance on Mac are primarily related to the file system)

I wrote a little about this; it's for Rails but the same ideas apply:

[https://medium.com/@bdcravens/fixing-docker-for-mac-and-
rail...](https://medium.com/@bdcravens/fixing-docker-for-mac-and-rails-
performance-baf35f554bc7)

~~~
baddox
docker-sync helps a little bit, and so does limiting Docker to 1 CPU core, but
I still routinely get spurts 100% CPU from Docker that despite supposedly
being on 1 core still grind my machine to a halt.

------
cytzol
_The refined scissor mechanism with 1 mm of travel delivers a responsive,
comfortable, and quiet typing experience. The inverted-T arrow keys help you
fly through lines of code, spreadsheets, or game environments._

This isn't progress. This is the baseline. Apple have gone from bad to OK, and
they're celebrating as though they've achieved something amazing.

~~~
dev_tty01
We all (most of us anyway) wanted them to go back to the scissor design. Are
we going to now complain that they did what the community has been begging
them to do? Was butterfly a mistake? Yes. Were they slow to correct the issue?
Yes. Now that they fixed it we should be happy about it.

As far as talking about it being amazing, its called marketing spin. This is
how it works. However, those two sentences do not say anything about it being
amazing. It simply focuses on the positive features of the keyboard. The two
sentences above clearly communicate to mac users that the company has fixed
the problems that people wanted fixed. Did you really expect a bunch of public
self-flaggelation? They are telling us clearly that they did what we asked
for. Perfect.

~~~
GordonS
I think it's the marketing copy most people are taking issue with with.

They tried a new design, which was horrible to use and had a high failure
rate. They continued to claim the new keyboard was amazing, and stubbornly
continued to use this crappy keyboard long after the problems were apparent.

And now they are touting a "normal" keyboard mechanism as if they've invented
something new and wonderful... only Apple could get away with such transparent
BS.

~~~
pwinnski
"The refined scissor mechanism with 1 mm of travel delivers a responsive,
comfortable, and quiet typing experience."

What in that says "invented" "new" or even "wonderful?" It seems like you're
reading into the text what isn't even there.

~~~
oblio
> What in that says "invented" "new" or even "wonderful?"

Uh... "refined"?

~~~
kbsletten
I read that as "elegant" not "made better". It's possible that people could
read it either way.

~~~
brippalcharrid
Yes, that's by design; it's a purposefully ambiguous choice of words that be
read either way depending on what the reader's subconscious wants to hear.
Either way, they don't have to admit that they were wrong, customers that
hated the old now now feel relieved and vindicated, and people are probably
more likely to buy the new one. That particular choice of words is probably
the result of millions of dollars of marketing psychology, focus groups and
A/B testing.

------
climb_stealth
After using the latest Macbook Pro 13" for over a year I have recently had my
2015 Macbook Pro 13" repaired. Both are max specs. It was a $600 bill, but it
has been so worth it. The keyboard just works, it doesn't run hot and the fan
doesn't blast under the slightest load, the performance is much better, the
battery lasts longer and the external screen + keyboard and mouse are detected
every single time without having to re-plug the USB-C or open and close the
computer lid. Also, no dongles required to connect USB-A or SD cards. Yes, it
does look a bit clunky and not as elegant as the newer one, but seriously it
actually just works.

I almost can't believe how much shit I put up with on a daily basis for over a
year. If you replaced a dying 2015 Macbook Pro with a new one, I very much
urge you to reconsider getting it fixed at pretty much any price. It is so
very worth it.

~~~
tarasmatsyk
Ha-ha, reading this from the 2015 MPRO 13", exact same experience. I've tried
to move to DELL XPS 13 2 years ago on Linux, did not work for me, however with
a new line of Dell's I am starting to thinking about repeating this
experiment.

Apple's 2016-2019 laptops were pretty unusable, hope they revert the touchbar
too..

A question, has anybody tried System76 comparing to Dell/Apple?

~~~
aarongray
I think System76, Lenovo, or Tuxedo is a better choice than Dell XPS for Linux
from a reliability standpoint. Additionally, if you plan to do full disk
encryption, the XPS line has all sorts of issues.
[https://www.dell.com/community/Linux-Developer-
Systems/XPS-1...](https://www.dell.com/community/Linux-Developer-
Systems/XPS-13-9370-Ubuntu-full-disk-encryption/td-p/6200577/page/8)

~~~
marcus_holmes
Adding Purism to this list.

Slightly more pricey, but worth it. Typing this on one.

~~~
aarongray
Been wondering about those. Did you use their distro or install another one on
it?

~~~
marcus_holmes
Still using PureOS, just so I know any problems are caused by me and not some
strange hardware/software issue. It's a perfectly serviceable Debian-based
distro, haven't had an issue with it so far.

~~~
aarongray
Good to know, thank you.

------
highace

      - Quad core processor
      - Scissor keys
      - No touch bar
    

MacBook Air, the new MacBook for Pros.

~~~
mFixman
I honestly never understood the hate for the touchbar. It allows me to be much
more granular with volume and brightness, and I never really used F-keys
anyway.

~~~
72deluxe
As a developer, how would I step into, step over, step out in Xcode without
function keys?? (Continue being ctrl-cmd-Y is the worst shortcut ever). It
truly hampers my development because I have to look at the touchbar to see
where on earth those keys are (F6, F7) or step in/continue in Chrome (F10,
F11).

Also, where on earth is the escape key??

~~~
RandallBrown
The escape key is back on the new 16 inch, but even on older Touch Bar Macs
you can tap anywhere on the left side of the Touch Bar (doesn't have to just
be the escape button area) and it will still work.

Different strokes for different folks, but I've never liked using the function
keys for debugging. I just click the buttons on the screen. I'm a little
surprised they don't have a way to set the Touch Bar buttons up to do that in
Xcode though.

~~~
72deluxe
I will try the "left of the escape key" trick - thanks!

Moving the mouse cursor up to the toolbar always seems a lot of travel and
swishing around if you're hovering over variables to see their contents in the
source code.

I have found the auto/local/all view in Xcode to be a bit dumb and unable to
properly expand some template objects in C++ so it's all just an exercise in
frustration anyway!

------
iDemonix
I'm still using a 2015 MacBook Pro that I'm clinging to, despite the screen
having developed an annoying flicker every few minutes. I know 4 others in my
office with Apple laptops, and they're all 2015 MBPs because until now,
nothing else has been acceptable.

This seems to be like an answer to the "Can we just have the 2015 MBP with
updated hardware?" question. Pending benchmarks, this could be the light at
the end of the tunnel for a lot of users that don't need more than 16GB RAM
(I'm still scraping by with Docker on my 8GB Mac and a lot of SWAP).

~~~
_bxg1
I love my 16" MBP, aside from the dongles situation (though I rarely need
peripherals at all). It has the same keyboard mentioned here; feels great to
me. The Touch Bar doesn't really bother me.

~~~
gregkerzhner
Recently upgraded from my 2015 15 inch MBP to the new 16 inch MBP (32 gigs of
ram). Overall it big upgrade - the higher resolution and bigger screen are
awesome, and my XCode builds are compiling faster. That being said, I hate the
touchbar for a few reasons \- Having to look at the keyboard to change volume
is not an upgrade in user experience \- The touchbar freezes for me once a
week or so and I have to go to the command line to kill the process \- The
icons don't make any sense - (xcode dustcan anyone)?

Also, maybe its because I am a rock climber and my skin gets roughed up, but
the finger print sensor has never worked for me on any apple products and its
a waste of space. All and all though, the faster computer and bigger screen is
worth it for me.

~~~
_bxg1
> Recently upgraded from my 2015 15 inch MBP to the new 16 inch MBP (32 gigs
> of ram)

Hah, that's exactly the upgrade I made except from a 2013

> Having to look at the keyboard to change volume is not an upgrade in user
> experience

Agreed; I wouldn't call the touch bar an upgrade, just a very tiny downgrade
that doesn't matter much with the Escape key now separated back out

> The touchbar freezes for me once a week or so and I have to go to the
> command line to kill the process

Yikes, can't say I've had that happen :/

> The icons don't make any sense - (xcode dustcan anyone)?

You can turn off the application-specific touch bar buttons in your
preferences and also customize what buttons appear. I have mine configured
almost exactly like the old button top-row, except with an optional volume
slider and a dedicated sleep button (which is nifty). But yes, just having the
physical buttons instead would still be slightly preferable.

> the finger print sensor has never worked for me on any apple products and
> its a waste of space

It's just part of the normal power button, though? It doesn't take up any
extra space

~~~
gregkerzhner
nice... thank you for finally help me get rid of those ridiculous application
specific buttons.

~~~
_bxg1
You can also go even further and do basically whatever you want with the touch
bar if you use third-party tools like BetterTouchTool. Making your own buttons
with your own icons, mapping them to scripts, whatever. I haven't gone that
far myself but it's an option

------
userbinator
_The inverted-T arrow keys help you fly through lines of code, spreadsheets,
or game environments._

That sentence made me check again...

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Macbook_white_redjar_2006...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Macbook_white_redjar_20060603.jpg)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MacBook_Air_1b.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MacBook_Air_1b.jpg)

...and yes, it's the same layout of the arrow keys that was there 14 years
ago. If they were advertising new _full size_ arrow keys that would definitely
be worth mentioning, but I'm not sure why they had to draw attention to that
particular aspect... especially given that half-height arrow keys are one of
the more annoying things about laptop keyboards in general.

~~~
D13Fd
Apple recently converted all laptops to an annoying non-inverted-T arrow key
layout that users generally didn't like.

They are advertising the switch back to the old style that people actually
liked.

~~~
geerlingguy
I _still_ mis-hit one of the arrow keys about 20% of the time with the
annoying 'full size left and right' arrow key arrangement. Going back to
inverted-T makes perfect sense. It was an experiment that failed.

~~~
zarmin
It was an awful experiment that should have never left the lab. What could
possibly have been the thinking for the entire butterfly/touchbar line,
"People should be looking at the keyboard more when they type. Also, there's
not nearly enough wrist pain going around. I wonder what important part of the
Macbook we can ruin to address both of these problems."

~~~
trollied
I suspect they're slowly fixing all of the things that Jony Ive wouldn't allow
them to change back. No more brutal "form over function".

------
acidburnNSA
Good. I'm hoping this will hurry along Dell's new XPS 13 Developer Edition
configs with 32 GB of mem, 1080 display (I prefer battery over 4K) and linux.
I have been itching to throw money at Dell since that was announced in January
and here we are. Granted, the pandemic obviously hit their supply chain so I
can understand.

~~~
nfoz
If you like the XPS 13, I also recommend to look out for their "business
laptop" Latitude 7xxx series (12", 13", 14"). They tend to have more ports,
physical buttons on the touchpad, and slightly better keyboards. YMMV

~~~
acidburnNSA
Nice. Thanks. I do indeed want more ports than the current new XPS 13s. Looks
like they come at a premium. 8th-Gen CPUs (vs. 10th in new XPS) with a few
more ports for an extra few hundred bucks? I will keep looking though for
their latest model. Thanks again.

~~~
nfoz
No prob. Another option for ultraportable with good ports, 10gen cpu and
touchpad buttons (my personal obsession lol) is the Vaio:
[https://us.vaio.com](https://us.vaio.com)

It's pricey but their SX14 is almost surely my next laptop. I'd buy one but
they don't sell directly to Canada, and -- as of the border closure this
morning -- I couldn't even go to the US to get one if I wanted to! Crazy times
indeed.

~~~
acidburnNSA
I'm trying to upgrade from a 2013 VAIO which I totally love so that's also a
good tip. Crazy times indeed.

------
leetrout
I wish they would offer customers of the previous gen a coupon. Mine has been
serviced and given a new keyboard and it still double types.

No chance I’m buying another one any time soon.

~~~
latenightcoding
Same thoughts, I have the MBA 2018 and the keyboard is a deal breaker, I
regret buying it and this is probably the last laptop from apple I will every
buy

~~~
cced
I bought the 2018 MBP and also agree. The keyboard has been a disaster. I’ve
had it replaced 4 times now and won’t be looking back at their laptops anytime
soon. The resale value has completely gone away for a 3500 purchase.

Shame.

------
ZeroCool2u

      > 720p FaceTime HD camera
      > 8GB 3733MHz LPDDR4X memory
    

I know cost usually isn't the top priority for people buying Apple products,
but both of these starting specs seem pretty disappointing considering the
price and for 2020. Perhaps someone realized keeping the cam resolution down
is an effective method of capping FaceTime call costs. I will say, I am happy
to see the transition to LPDDR4.

~~~
terramex
When Macbook Pro 16 premiered last year (using 720p camera too), I've read
comment here on HN, saying that nobody produces higher resolution sensors that
can fit into such a slim form factor (as notebook cover is slimmer than even
thinnest smartphones). Their competition like Dell XPS 13 2020 also seems to
still use 720p camera.

~~~
pfranz
> nobody produces higher resolution sensors that can fit into such a slim form
> factor

That seems like a very flimsy excuse. These seem to be the exact same cameras
they've been shipping since 2011 and nobody would excuse them for using 2011
era cameras in their phones (I remember being disappointed in the quality back
in 2011). Apple has added bigger and multiple camera bumps to their phones to
accommodate space. That seems like it would work even better in a laptop since
it doesn't have to lay flat on a table.

> Dell XPS 13 2020 also seems to still use 720p camera

It's not the resolution, the quality and low-light performance hasn't changed
in Mac laptops at all. I don't think the XPS is a great comparison since
they've had the camera below the screen for years (I think they moved it in
2020). Having the camera positioned so low you literally see fingers on the
keyboard and get a very unflattering angle. So in my search it was eliminated
very early.

I'm guessing it's just not a high priority for most purchasers even as remote
working increases. The Dell XPS 13 reviews barely mention the camera and I
couldn't easily find a sample from the camera. I've been working remotely, so
it has been a huge priority for me. I've also been FaceTiming and find using a
laptop is easier than holding a phone.

~~~
ksec
>These seem to be the exact same cameras they've been shipping since 2011

As explained in your previous comment, the sensor in post 2018 model are
different due to thinner Display Lid / Panel.

------
rvanmil
Anyone here who has experience working with JS/TS development tools (vscode,
yarn, webpack, Node.js etc.) on a recent MacBook Air? I wonder if the
performance is noticeably worse than a 13” MacBook Pro for this type of work.

~~~
solat
While this MBA turned out really well, current Windows featuring WSL2 is quite
impressive though. Having a full Ubuntu or Debian on your machine is
priceless. Or you develop on a remote server, then you just need a good
terminal. So currently both macOS and Windows are good for JS dev. It's a
matter of taste and price.

~~~
snemvalts
i think most people prefer to not sell their souls for advertising when it
comes to their desktop environments.

~~~
api
Yeah, the presence of ads on anything I've paid for instantly classifies it as
"junk." Windows is now junk.

~~~
FpUser
I am curious where do you people see ads. I do not have any on my windows
computers. All hold latest official updates.

~~~
api
Last fresh Windows install I did came pre-loaded with a bunch of loot box
style gaming crap, Candy Crush, Xbox stuff, Netflix, Amazon Prime, loads of
other foistware that should not exist on a fresh install.

A new Windows install requires at least an hour of de-cluttering and shit
removal, while for a new Mac full setup to my liking takes about 5-10 minutes
and I generally don't have to uninstall much of anything. The only thing I
sometimes remove are apps I never personally use like Garage Band to save a
bit of disk space, and that takes like ten seconds.

Then there's the almost Android level of obviously spyware telemetry going on.
Yes I know Apple has telemetry but I trust them quite a bit more than
Microsoft both not to do anything deliberately sketchy with my data and to be
competent with their security. They also do a lot less and a lot less invasive
telemetry. Redirecting local search, sending file list dumps, etc. to the
mothership is unforgivable unless I have explicitly opted into that kind of
behavior e.g. for tech support or debugging. That's the kind of stuff I
associate with borderline malware, not an OS by a supposedly reputable company
that I paid for.

Microsoft's recent behavior is pegging them in the low end of the market and
ceding the high end of the market to Apple. Then of course there's Linux. If
Apple did something barking stupid that forced me to ditch the platform that's
where I'd go. I'd miss the Apple degree of trouble-free operation but at least
I'd keep my privacy and security and lack of foistware.

~~~
FpUser
I asked specifically about ads as I do not have those so curious why others
do. I do not need generic Windows criticism as I am using it without any
problem for like eternity, so do not really give a hoot if somebody else does
not like it. I have whole bunch of Windows and Linux computers (laptops and
desktops/servers) and am happy like a clam.

"Ceding high end of the market to Apple". I would not go into much details but
for example my gaming grade laptop runs circles around Mac that costs twice as
much. So sure I'd rather be a "low end" peon with the decent hardware.

------
gigatexal
Now give me a 14.1 inch MacBook Pro with this keyboard, 32 or 64GB of ram and
8 real cores.

... I think though this new MacBook Air is going to be my next portable

~~~
parsimo2010
This announcement _should_ mean that the current 13" Pro will soon be replaced
by a 14" Pro with magic keyboard and higher power processor options, otherwise
there will be too much overlap between product lines. But Apple has been
content in the past to have overlapping product lines, so they might not.

~~~
gigatexal
True -- the next few months should be really interesting in this space. I was
thinking of ditching OS X entirely for a linux box but I can't get over how
great the Mac hardware is -- it just doesn't run Linux all that well and costs
an arm-and-a-leg such that buying one to nuke OS X just seems like a waste

~~~
thomassharoon
Tried ditching OSX and moving to Ubuntu a 2020 Thinkpad X1 carbon G7. Gave up
after I had to first update WiFi driver only to have sound break.

loved the hardware, but returned the box.

~~~
gigatexal
Speaking of which -- how does one go about buying an QWERTY layout XPS 13 dev
edition with ubuntu in Germany? Navigating teh dell website is impossible to
find it -- I just find the windows based units.

------
chx
Apple got some custom chips from Intel again.

[https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/](https://www.apple.com/macbook-
air/specs/)

====

1.1GHz dual-core Intel Core i3, Turbo Boost up to 3.2GHz, with 4MB L3 cache

Configurable to 1.1GHz quad-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.5GHz, with
6MB L3 cache; or 1.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz,
with 8MB L3 cache

8GB of 3733MHz LPDDR4X onboard memory

Intel Iris Plus Graphics

====

[https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/codenam...](https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/codename/186968/amber-
lake-y.html) this matches the frequency cadence but it's LPDDR3 and Intel GT
graphics.

[https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/codenam...](https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/codename/74979/ice-
lake.html) the fourth digit is the power tier and the fastest
[https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/197120/...](https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/197120/intel-
core-i7-1060g7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-80-ghz.html) is only 1GHz. So if
this theory were true, Intel would need to take the cream of the by and large
broken 10nm process Ice Lake Y CPUs on the i5 Y and i7 Y tiers and give them
to Apple.

The previous one ran an i5-8210Y which was also Apple specific 23% higher
clocked version vs the more common i5-8200Y but that was only one, this time
it would need two, both the i5 and i7 CPUs are special but the i3 seems to be
the run-of-the-mill version. Note how _weird_ the cadence is because usually
the frequency drops with the number of cores. However, the Turbo Boost is the
same 3.8 GHz which is _way_ too low for the 10th gen Amber Lake Y CPUs.

Also, at first I thought the video resolutions weird but what's going on here
is that there is a single USB C output and even with Thunderbolt, that's only
a 40Gbps bus. So the ICL-Y DP 1.4 support is somewhat less useful here. If
there would be two USB C outputs, two 5K monitors could be driven easily, for
example. Which the previous generation Intel CPUs couldn't because to drive an
5K from DP 1.2 the monitor eats up two display outputs even if physically
that's delivered on a single Thunderbolt cable.

~~~
qayxc
Hold up! Aren't Apple just using 10th gen Ice Lake CPUs?

[https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/197123/...](https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/197123/intel-
core-i3-1000g4-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-20-ghz.html)

Ticks all the boxes as far as I can tell.

~~~
cmurphycode
The i3 you linked matched. But for the i7 model, apple claims 1.2/3.8 and I
can't see a match for that.

For the i5, they claim 1.1/3.5 which could be a match for
[https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/197119/...](https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/197119/intel-
core-i5-1030g7-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-50-ghz.html) with the "configurable
TDP" of 1.1 instead of base 800 MHZ.

If anyone can solve this mystery, it would be great to compare to other
laptops like the Surface Pro, whose i7 is "Quad-core 10th Gen Intel® Core™
i7-1065G7 Processor"(1.3 / 3.9)

------
WillPostForFood
What’s missing from Apple’s lineup now is an a lightweight option. This is
almost a pound heavier than the discontinued 12” MacBook.

~~~
Engineering-MD
I think the new iPad Pro with trackpad is filling this gap.

~~~
WillPostForFood
I travel a lot and use a MacBook 12 for development. I like to keep it light,
so the Air and MacBook Pro are too heavy, and the iPad pro doesn't work yet as
a development platform.

------
saagarjha
Perhaps a better link: [https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/03/new-macbook-
air-has-m...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/03/new-macbook-air-has-more-
to-love-and-is-now-just-999/)

------
dimitar
So I got a 2019 Air just before the COVID-19 emergency in my area. I was
looking for a small and light machine to carry around, with a little bit of
coding and browsing mostly. I would have probably picked the most basic retina
model with the dual-core processor (not like my 15m load average is ever
bigger than 2.5) - I don't know about the keyboard and the graphics though,
they seem ok so far.

Did I screw up? I don't live in a country with a Apple store it usually takes
months for these to reach our market. I'm consoling myself that I got a good
deal and I got a new machine that I needed before a long stint working from
home.

~~~
dijit
if you contact them, they will likely upgrade it, Apple tends to let you bring
a machine back if one has been released 3 months after you bought yours.

~~~
dimitar
Does it work with resellers as well?

~~~
dijit
I genuinely don't know, I tend to avoid resellers. :\

------
madoublet
I remember when I bought my last Air I skipped Apple Care b/c I knew Apple
made quality products. Things have certainly changed. Might as well add
another $200 to that price, b/c you know something is going to go wrong.

~~~
randomsearch
They replaced my Air keyboard for free and it’s been great ever since. I love
it. Best machine I’ve ever had.

------
mtm7
What's it like to develop on a MacBook Air these days? I have a 2016 13"
MacBook Pro and am thinking of upgrading, but I don't know how it'll handle
JS/Docker/Rails.

------
nishnik
I wonder how it compares to the MacBook Pro, 13" \- weight wise and
performance wise?

------
alexellisuk
Good comparison of changes - [https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/macbook-
air-2020-vs-macb...](https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/macbook-air-2020-vs-
macbook-air-2019-4017394)

More CPU cores - 4 up from 2 More storage on base model - 256GB up from 120GB,
odd that the rMBA ever launched with 120GB when the 12" rMP shipped with 256GB
as standard.

------
abledon
1 mm key length is not enough. they should have 2011 style keyboards still.

~~~
chipotle_coyote
1mm of key travel (not "length") is what they have in the external keyboards
they've been selling since 2015, and it's just fine. While this is obviously
subjective, I'd argue it's the best keyboard Apple has made since the days of
the Apple Extended keyboards. The 2011 laptop keyboards are the same keyboards
they used up until the butterfly switches, they don't have as nice a "feel" as
the Magic Keyboards, and it's not as if they have a lot more key travel,
anyway -- only about 1.3mm.

~~~
abledon
"30 %" seems like a good amount more. also
[https://twitter.com/variety/status/1226710675554091008](https://twitter.com/variety/status/1226710675554091008)

every year they get worse

~~~
chipotle_coyote
I mean, okay, percentage-wise you're absolutely correct, and if you
subjectively feel that the difference between 1.3mm and 1.0mm key travel is
the difference between typing bliss and "might as well not be moving at all,"
who am I to tell you otherwise. For me, _subjectively,_ the Magic Keyboard is
the nicest-feeling "low travel" keyboard I've ever used, and as a technical
writer and a novelist on the side who has a closet full of mechanical
keyboards I'm pretty picky about my keys. Do I think the Matias Tactile Pro
keyboard that I'm typing on at this very moment and the Vortex Race 3 with
Cherry MX Clears that's usually my office keyboard are better? Yes. Do I want
a _laptop_ with them? No, in fact, I do not. Do I want a laptop with what I
consider to be the nicest-feeling "low travel" keyboard I've ever used? Yeah,
that sounds kinda nice. As always, your mileage may vary, and if you're
willing to go back to having inch and a half thick laptops so you can get in
that awesome mechanical clicky monster, more power to you.

> every year they get worse

So you are saying that the Magic Keyboard, with its 1mm travel, has too low
key travel, but it is _also_ worse than last year's butterfly keyboard with
0.7mm key travel? The keyboard you prefer may be subjective, but math is not.

~~~
ksec
The key travel has absolutely nothing to do with the thickness of the current
MacBook as proven by many other vendors. It was a compromise / invention for
the MacBook 12" which was light weight and thin.

And the despite the small difference, Magic Keyboard felt the same as the
Butterfly keyboard. It is similar enough to group them in the same Category
while the old Scissors keyboard being a different one.

------
johnmarcus
I just switched to Linux on an lightly used LG gram after being on Mac for 10
years. $1300, 1TB nvme, 24gb ram, 15" edgeless screen, weighs less than 3lbs,
and charger is lighter. Also has a full touch screen. Do I miss retina
display? Yes, although I get just as much on screen since it's 15". Would I go
back for 2x the price? No way.

~~~
wayneftw
What distribution and desktop environment are you running?

I switched to Manjaro with XFCE almost 2 years ago and it's been a joy to
setup and use coming from Mac/Windows. As a matter of fact - setting up a
Manjaro workstation is actually way less hassle than I've ever had with Mac or
Windows. I don't have to fight against the OS to do what I need to.

------
hijp
Damn, this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because I bought a Macbook Air in
September for $1,800 and it's performed terribly.

I can barely compile Gatsby sites and it struggles on displaying Apple's own
marketing pages (that run fine on my ipad and iphone).

Even more, you can only trade in up to the 2018 Macbook Air, which means I'm
stuck with this lemon.

------
StreamBright
I hope there will be a 14" MBP as well with a working keyboard.

------
antirez
I've a MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015) with an i7 at 3.3 Ghz. Is the
new Air with a quadcore i7 going to be a decent CPU upgrade compared to what I
got in practical terms, or should I wait for the next Macbook Pro? Consider
that I don't want to go > 13" screen size. Thanks.

Relayed story: when I run the Redis test in my Macbook, it is able to stop
everything, like if the kernel scheduler was not able to balance between the
test and the other tasks, even if I've the Chorome window open and using it.
If I open Virtual Box and run the test into a virtualized Linux system, the
test runs in a similar time without any usability problem for the other Mac
apps. This is how bad scheduling can go, but also how much more efficient the
Linux implementation of certain system related stuff can be.

------
rajnathani
The use of LPDDR4X memory with the memory clock rate at 3733MHz is pretty
cool, this is enabled by the 10th gen Intel processor [1] that's in it. Not
that memory speeds matter too much when it comes to perceivable differences in
most user based compute workloads, however IMO this almost 2x jump in clock
rate makes it noteworthy.

Edit: I just noticed that the processors are of Intel’s new Ice Lake line
(currently only for ‘mobile’ processors as Intel is seemingly having scaling
issues with their 10nm node yields) which is from Intel’s 10nm node.

[1] [https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/375083/when-
will-w...](https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/375083/when-will-we-have-
lpddr4x-memory-in-mbs-mbps)

------
rnernento
It's a shame there isn't a way to try the keyboard in person due to all the
retail shutdowns.

~~~
OakNinja
I love the one on the 16”. It’s like the old 15” retina but a bit less
spongy/mooshy.

------
lonelappde
Still using solder to monopolize RAM/SSD and charge $200 for each $40 worth of
capacity increase.

------
londons_explore
So the question is, will these fail when an eyelash falls into them and cost
$1000 to repair?

~~~
tomcam
That’s offensive and unnecessary.

It will only be $800.

------
ndonnellan
Still puttering along with my 2012 Air, only replaced the battery once. I've
definitely been waiting to upgrade and this looks promising, but I also have a
company laptop again, so the pressure is lower to get my old Air replaced.

~~~
dopamean
I have a 2012 air as well (i7, 8gb) that still runs quite well. I dont do much
development on it anymore but I'm still impressed with how well it has held
up.

------
quxbar
I bought one, maxed out everything but storage -can anybody really justify the
2TB option?

Fingers crossed it will work for lighter web dev work. I figure I'll know well
within the 14 day return period. As a consultant, I work with a pretty diverse
set of tools, but I figure I can at least do frontend work and throw together
the odd lambda here and there. Also running a mac mini currently with a couple
4k screens as a main environment. Can anybody recommend a way to take both of
these screens and switch their inputs easily between the mini and a macbook?

~~~
tqkxzugoaupvwqr
I want to replace my aging 15" MBP (2014) with possibly a Mac mini but am
scared of its seemingly underpowered graphics. What Mac mini do you have and
does it handle two 4K screens well?

------
throwaway123x2
Anybody know what's the cheapest setup you could get away with for iOS/xcode
development? Would it be a (used) Macbook Air, or can you not really run xcode
effectively on them?

~~~
shadytrees
It would definitely be painful to run XCode and iOS Simulator on a used
MacBook Air, but not impossible. Price-wise, however, it's hard to beat a
Hackintosh. Here, for example, is a $300 build:
[https://hackintosher.com/builds/cheap-
hackinosh-2020-300-cat...](https://hackintosher.com/builds/cheap-
hackinosh-2020-300-catalina-desktop-pc-gigabyte-b365m-ds3h/)

I remember being broke out of college and setting one up out of necessity.
It's still going! I'm typing on it now. It needs a motherboard/processor
upgrade, _maybe_, these days. Still one of the best cost-saving decisions I've
made in my life. And it just plain feels good to not have to throw out /
recycle a laptop every five years. They're terrible for the environment.

There are shops that will build the hardware for you. Setting up the
bootloader is still the hardest part, but it gets easier with each iteration
of the Hackintosh software ecosystem.

------
ameixaseca
I've been buying Asus for some time and have nothing to complain: very good
laptops, twice the specs of a Macbook for half of the price and with the
choice of AMD processors.

Apple has a strong name in North America, but I find that to be mostly based
on a perceived image, rooted more in a distant past (or on pure marketing)
than in reality. I understand when this happens with the general public but it
puzzles me when technical people buy into this.

------
perseusprime11
Is the webcam any better on this new Air?

------
dippersauce
I am so glad it doesn't have a Touch Bar. Nothing turned me away from the
newer Pro models quite like the lack of physical keys. Sure the Touch Bar is
nifty for timeline scrubbing and slider adjustment, but those are such small
aspects when compared to how often the function keys are used.

------
blhack
Are there worries about actually being able to get these with all of the
supply chain disruptions?

------
dangus
Perhaps we can finally stop jumping down Apple's throats for daring to sell a
computer this time around.

There is legitimately nothing wrong with this computer. All of its previous
shortcomings have been rectified

\- It has an agreeable keyboard

\- It's cheaper

\- It has a quad-core processor, finally

~~~
appleflaxen
> There is legitimately nothing wrong with this computer

now /that/ is a powerful pitch!

Seriously though, a quad core processor at this clock speed in 2020 is
incredibly underwhelming.

~~~
weystrom
You're still limited by thermals, especially in such a thin machine

------
hahamrfunnyguy
Apple makes nice laptops, but I am not interested until the come out with a
convertible option. I bought a HP Spectre a couple of years ago and I am very
happy with it. The convertible option is very nice for traveling in coach.

~~~
read_if_gay_
What I dislike about my convertible is that you can never use it as both a
tablet and a laptop at the same time.

I know it’s obvious but I didn’t realize it when I switched from a laptop +
tablet to a convertible in the hopes of simplifying my setup.

For example, it’s annoying when you’re taking notes and need to look something
up on the web: either put up with poorly optimized interfaces or convert the
device to a laptop.

So I’d much prefer a tablet plus laptop for my particular usage as a student
but am too broke to buy another new setup. What makes convertibles so
desirable to you?

------
manishsharan
why does apple not publish the Intel CPU generation information. ? Dell ,
Lenovo etc. publish information like "8th gen Intel Core i7" for all their
laptops. With Apple , its a information is not that obvious.

------
shirshak55
bought macbook pro in 2017. Due to the issue with double typing keyboard I
always regret everyday. And there is screen issue also. Probably they will
charge $300. Looks like I did the worst investment in my life.

~~~
gxx
I bought a 13 inch Macbook Pro in 2017 and within six months of normal use the
spacebar and other other key were intermittent. I was fortunately able to get
it fixed under warranty.

However I've been using since then with no need for servicing and the keys are
at this moment perfect. Various keys have become intermittent since then but I
found a trick that so far has fixed it every time.

The key mechanism seems to be VERY robust and can take a lot of pounding.
Usually the particles jamming the mechanism (e.g. food crumbs) can be broken
up by repeatedly banging hard on the offending key.

I've had keys that were intermittent or even not come all the way up and this
has always fixed them to be literally as good as new. It seems that once the
particles are broken small enough they either remain in place but are harmless
or maybe they are small enough to fall out by themselves.

~~~
redler
> The key mechanism seems to be VERY robust and can take a lot of pounding.
> Usually the particles jamming the mechanism (e.g. food crumbs) can be broken
> up by repeatedly banging hard on the offending key.

I've done something similar by holding the base of an electric toothbrush
against a misbehaving key that couldn't be cleared by some other technique.
The high-frequency vibrations seem to do a decent job of breaking up or
dislodging whatever's stuck.

------
jamesrcole
I wish they provided an easy way to compare it to older MacBook Air models. I
have a 2018 model - I’d like to be able to easily compare them and see the
exact differences and where they’re the same.

~~~
lonelappde
Everymac com will be updated soon

[https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-comparison-
chart/?compare=...](https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-comparison-
chart/?compare=all-intel-
macs&highlight=0&prod1=MacBookAir036&prod2=MacBookAir035&prod3=iMacIntel006)

------
thefounder
Is this any different than the previous version(except the keyboard)?

~~~
chipotle_coyote
I believe it's updated to the latest generation of Intel's low-power 10nm
processors.

------
kristianp
Almost $2k Australian for the quad-core model. Pretty steep for a machine that
still needs an upgrade of 16g of ram for my use, then the Y-series processor
is still too low performance.

------
neogodless
More comments here on somewhat duplicate thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22615803](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22615803)

~~~
xenonite
The other one was submitted later according to the ID. Could one move the
comments from there to here?

------
rooam-dev
How future proof is it? Even if it's quad core, it's still 1.1GHz I mean, will
a browser need multiple cores to scroll smoothly through pages in 2-3 years
from now?

------
mrpopo
> Total greenhouse gas emissions of 176 kg CO2e based on Life Cycle
> Assessment.

This is definitely lower than the real number. Is there any more info on how
this carbon accounting is done?

~~~
rimliu
Well, you claim it is "definitely lower" so you must know how it is
calculated, no?

~~~
mrpopo
Yes, I do, and I cannot believe they took every step of the life cycle into
account, else the number would be 3-4 times higher.

That's why I was hoping for more details. But obviously this is not something
we like to talk about, and it's so easy to sweep it under the carpet, so why
bother?

------
hypewatch
Looking forward to trying out the keyboard. The fact that there is NOT a Touch
Bar on this is a big plus. I’ve used a Mac book with a Touch Bar for work and
it’s so awful.

------
rsynnott
... Huh. If you'd asked me to guess where Apple would first deploy Ice
Lake/equiv gen, the Air would not have been in my first few guesses.

------
eruci
My MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015) works better than any of the
current iterations.

I bought and returned a 2019 model within a week for a full refund.

------
vladgur
just got a 2019 16in Macbook Pro with i7 & 16GB Ram at work and this thing
flies. It is definitely faster than my personal 2013 i5 macbook pro with 8gb
of ram, but im going to make it last through this recession for as long as i
can. I am salivating over forthcoming 14in macbook pro though

------
nunodonato
"48% more colors!"

lol you could take this out of context and I would 99% guess it's from Apple's
website.

------
audeyisaacs
So it's a MacBook Air, and yet I can't see the most important spec -- weight
-- on this page?

------
baybal2
I like it how they have to almost shout "no butterfly switch keyboard there"
now

Thank you Louis Rossmann!

~~~
ryanlol
What does the weird conspiracy theorist dude have to do with this decision by
Apple?

~~~
saagarjha
He has his faults, but calling him a “conspiracy theorist” is uncharitable.

~~~
ryanlol
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=tw3-j_RaX74](https://youtube.com/watch?v=tw3-j_RaX74)

I think this video speaks for itself.

It’s not like his regular allegations of planned obsolescence tend to be much
better,
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=wgeh7ZJRhZU](https://youtube.com/watch?v=wgeh7ZJRhZU)

~~~
fredsted
lol, he confused gigabits with gigabytes

------
DeepYogurt
Anyone know if these are ice lake chips or more generally does anyone know
which uarch is in use?

------
blt
I'm waiting for Apple to release an ARM laptop before I consider upgrading my
2013 rMBP.

------
par
and no touchbar!! omg thank god.

------
werber
My 2012 air just died (from liquid not age), look forward to having this one
till 2030

------
JyB
Did Apple announced those new products through some kind of conference that I
missed?

------
jdironman
> Starting at $899 In the top banner.

> Starting at $999 Under 'lightspeed' info image.

Typo on the page.

~~~
Whatarethese
$899 is the education pricing. Thats probably what you're seeing.

~~~
jdironman
Ah, yes, I glossed over the education part in the 899 one. Thank you.

------
hinkley
So I guess that ARM processor theory is pushed out for another year or two...

------
PHGamer
hows the disk on the air? I thought I heard somewhere the disk was was a
weaker one, maybe that was the normal macbooks?

Also how bad or good would the performance be on an air to develop ipod/iphone
style apps?

------
x3n0ph3n3
How turn this thing on and off without the power button?

------
mentos
Can anyone here recommend a similarly spec’d pc laptop?

~~~
ysleepy
Acer swift 3? Screen and speakers will be quite a bit worse though. But for
500€ it is a very reasonable deal.

------
solat
re 'doubled perf': AMD Ryzen 4000 Notebooks are coming these days, not sure if
the Macbook is then again old tech.

~~~
skohan
How long would it realistically take for Apple to pivot to AMD? If things
continue as they have been, it's hard to imagine the "premium brand" sticking
with Intel.

Of course they might just shift everything to A series chips instead.

------
acd
Why not use AMD chips instead.

------
bbrizzi
Is that a new product ?

------
speedgoose
Still no touchscreen.

~~~
inscionent
I think you are looking for an iPad?

~~~
speedgoose
Not really, the operating system is not very advanced.

------
EGreg
No touchbar? Woot!

------
nkkollaw
The fact that Apple insists on both having only 2 USB-C port and still using
USB3 to charge their phones, mice, and keyboards is ridiculous.

I hate both going all USB-C and having to carry a dongle or adapters
everywhere, and the idiotic touchbar.

Basically, anything that Apple has done since Steve Jobs died is complete shit
--even if you ignore the butterfly keyboards complete fiasco.

------
jordache
guaranteed this will be somewhere in between subpar to garbage

------
okareaman
My least favorite thing about HN is that it upvotes trivial Apple hardware
news to the top link. Literally no one in the world cares about Apple
keyboards except Apple fans.

~~~
otachack
Not true. Apple's redesigned keyboard where keys bricked when a small crumb
got wedged in impacted not just keyboard fans.

~~~
okareaman
I said Apple fans, not just keyboard fans. There are plenty of great
development machines, but somehow Apple machines are the only ones that make
it to the top link.

------
antidaily
Im in. 16GB RAM max is my only gripe. But thats whats in my ‘16 MBP anyway.

------
pooya13
Maybe it works for some but 256GB of storage is just insulting to me. I also
don’t appreciate this focus Apple has had over the past decade to make it
easier for me to shop or to identify my fingerprints, voice or face while they
screw the usability.

That said I like the new thunderbolt 3 port.

~~~
gnicholas
256 definitely isn’t enough for anyone who backs up their phone to the
computer. They’re pushing folks to the cloud. I am pretty insistent on having
a local phone backup, but have to use a symbolic link to an external hard
drive to accomplish this. Seems like a pretty extreme step to have to take
just to back up to an external drive.

