
Amazon, GM in talks to invest in electric pickup truck maker Rivian: sources - Element_
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rivian-electric-amazon-com-gm-exclusi/amazon-gm-in-talks-to-invest-in-electric-pickup-truck-maker-rivian-sources-idUSKCN1Q12PV
======
jschwartzi
The only thing I really take issue with on this truck is that the spare tire
is accessed through the top of the bed. There are two reasons you don't want
to do this in a truck:

1.) The bed needs to be very strong because people routinely put weight on
dunnage in the bed, and the door doesn't appear to be corrugated to withstand
load.

2.) If you want to change your flat tire you need to unload everything in the
bed, which will be a huge pain in the ass on the side of the road.

Otherwise thank god someone is actually trying to capture this market. I
really want one of these and can't wait until they're closer to market.

~~~
leetcrew
> If you want to change your flat tire you need to unload everything in the
> bed, which will be a huge pain in the ass on the side of the road.

aren't you already supposed to unload your vehicle before you jack it up on
one side? maybe it's different for "work vehicles", but my car comes with a
puny little jack that's only strong enough to support the weight of the car
when there are no people or heavy items inside. I suspect the hardpoint on the
car itself isn't designed with much more headroom than the jack.

~~~
mikestew
The hard point of the car is part of the frame on every vehicle I can recall.
And I recall a lot, because back when I was a mechanic I had to find those
points to get the car on the hydraulic lift. One had to be careful of rusty VW
Beetles as unibody as kind of a new thing, and a lift could punch a hole
through the floor of a rusted Beetle if one wasn’t careful.

Anyway, enough resume flouting. Yes, you should unload your truck before
changing the tire. What if that 1000 lbs. is pea gravel? Still unloading it
first, Dr. Safety First? If I had 1000 lbs. in the bed and I had a flat? I’d
change it as is. It won’t be the smartest thing I do that week, and I am going
to keep my hands out from breaking the vertical plane of the wheel well as
much as possible. But I am confident that the solid point of the frame will
hold it, and even the puny jack is likely stringer than it looks.

But in reality, if I had a load, I’d just call AAA or a mobile truck service.
They carry really nice heavy-duty jacks. Flat tires are such a rarity these
days, I’d roll the dice on paying someone $200 to change my tire.

In the end, if you’re that worried about it, do what we did when I was kid
with our old ‘63 Chevy: throw the spare on top of the load when you’re done
loading. Doesn’t fix the jacking problem, but at least the spare is
accessible.

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ravedave5
I really hope Rivian makes it. They seem to have the right idea working from
the top of the market down like Tesla. They could probably survive on only
high-end low volume sales for quite a while. I hope Tesla gives them time and
room to grow before introducing their own truck.

Also - There was a video with Sandy Munro on it and he couldn't talk about
Rivian so he's either working with them or someone who wants to invest in
them. So it seems like they are getting the right brains working on their
problems.

Edit - this video, which is very interesting -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVnRQRdePp4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVnRQRdePp4)

------
mlacks
Why do auto makers seem to be so against working with Tesla to bring electric
vehicles to market?

Now that I think about it, it seems like most car companies are trying to do
the electric thing on their own, and if they do ask for help it’s from
somebody that’s sort of out of their industry and not a direct competitor
(yet).

This is in contrast with for example how Mazda is working with Toyota on
hybrid drive, and how GM used to work with Toyota on hybrid drive.

Or is it Tesla that is ‘anti-cooperation’ with industry leaders? I was under
the impression that it was teslas goal to make electric cars more common, not
necessarily Tesla cars were common. I’ve never properly researched this, but
I’ve always wondered why a business model for them isn’t to just provide the
skateboard platform for other companies to build upon...

~~~
clouddrover
> _I’ve always wondered why a business model for them isn’t to just provide
> the skateboard platform for other companies to build upon_

Volkswagen beat them to it. Volkswagen has developed their MEB electric car
platform which they will use across their VW, Audi, SEAT, and Skoda brands:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform)

[https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-
vws-...](https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-vws-electric-
car-pla-1829257860)

VW is also open to licensing the platform to other manufacturers. Ford is
thinking about using the MEB platform for their EVs:

[https://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-wants-other-automakers-to-
us...](https://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-wants-other-automakers-to-use-its-meb-
electr-1832269531)

~~~
mlrtime
Porsche/Audi will need a small redesign after tearing apart a model 3.

[https://electrek.co/2019/02/09/tesla-model-3-cost-
surprise-p...](https://electrek.co/2019/02/09/tesla-model-3-cost-surprise-
porsche-audi-reverse-engineering/)

------
oakesm9
The Fully Charged YouTube channel did a great piece of this car:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw)

If you're interested in electric cars then it's well worth a subscribe.

~~~
rhegart
Wow great video! I had ZERO idea this company existed and I’m on my 2nd
EV...this is awesome

~~~
oakesm9
The YouTube channel is even better if you're a Red Dwarf fan. Robert is
amazing!

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bonestamp2
This is great, but I also want Amazon to build a high speed rail network
across the country. I think they're trying to build their own airline, at
least for package logistics but they can't get planes fast enough. They could
probably build rail much faster in certain areas and they could use it for
people and order logistics.

~~~
microcolonel
> _They could probably build rail much faster in certain areas and they could
> use it for people and order logistics._

You're not alone in this, but why do you think passenger rail makes any sense
in the U.S? As far as I can tell, it makes very little. People's big plans for
rail in the U.S. tend to rely on some _major_ change in one or more factors of
feasibility, and people justify these plans by calling that or those factors
"trivial, with political will!"; I find it unconvincing.

~~~
bonestamp2
Well, I don't think high speed passenger rail makes a lot of sense on its own.
But, it might make sense along with high speed delivery trains, especially on
certain routes:

West Coast: (Seattle?), SF, LA, SD

Midwest: Twin Cities, Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit

Northeast: NY, Philly, DC

Southeast: Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami

Yes, flying is faster and maybe even cheaper. But, the experience of flying is
awful and getting worse. If it's between 3 hours in airports, security and an
airplane or 4 hours on high speed rail where I can put my feet up, catch a nap
in an actual bed, use my cellphone and wifi, collaborate with colleagues, eat
good food, etc... I'd take the train every time. Hell, on the Toronto/Ottawa
route, flying is cheaper and there's no high speed rail, but many business
travelers still choose slow rail because the experience is so much better.
Make it a little more competitive in travel time, and it starts to become very
attractive.

Business travelers aren't as price sensitive, and if they can make good use of
the time working or resting then it can easily be justified.

~~~
taurath
Along those routes though you’re talking 3hrs max in the air, vs like 6 in a
direct hs rail train with no stops. I’d love to ride a train mind you,
ESPECIALLY to get around within metro areas or between close ones (sea to
Portland is more time in security and preflight than time in the air). But the
long distance ones seem like it’d only make sense along the eastern seaboard

~~~
vinay427
Sure, but it's rather unfair to compare time in the air to time from city to
city. In the best case (comparing airport entrance to airport exit with TSA
PreCheck and no check-in baggage) Detroit to Chicago would take just over 2
hours. In a more reasonable case, considering most people want to end up
closer to the city center than the airport, may have check-in bags, and may
not be eligible for PreCheck, the train would be noticeably faster and likely
more convenient.

------
dmode
Plenty of recent car startups have raised giant sums like Lucid, Karma,
Faraday Future etc. , but none of them have produced a viable car yet. Hope
Rivian does better, but car manufacturing is HARD

------
linuxftw
I've been an electric car naysayer for some time. I just don't think the price
to value is there. However, with proper towing and payload, these could have a
large impact on the job-site truck market. It's common to have to travel > 60
miles each way for construction type jobs, and this much range would fit the
bill.

Bed just needs to be longer. At $61k and about $25k (roughly) in fuel savings
over an F250 diesel over 250k miles, this could potentially be a huge win.

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whalesalad
I saw this vehicle at the LA Auto Show and was able to speak to a team member
prior to the general doors opening for a little while. Really cool technology
at play here and it sounds like they have their shit together a lot more than
Tesla.

The fact that they take advantage of the individual motors to steer the
vehicle without turning the wheels is pretty cool. It can rotate in-place
similar to a tank.

~~~
newnewpdro
> it sounds like they have their shit together a lot more than Tesla.

Is that really a meaningful comparison considering the tremendous difference
in scale? They probably won't have their shit together when they have to
deliver thousands of vehicles per week.

~~~
carlivar
Tesla also struggles with this, and I think it's because of their direct
model. If Rivian uses dealers they should have an easier time in theory.

It strikes me that Rivian is combining the advantages of electric vehicles
with the advantages of auto industry know-how, instead of independent hubris.

~~~
greglindahl
Lots of people have theories as to what Tesla's problems are, but you'd be
hard-pressed to find many Tesla owners who think they'd be better off with a
dealer. I can name several things Tesla ought to do better, and none of them
have anything to do with dealers.

~~~
carlivar
Parts supply logistics and repair times wouldn't improve with dealers?

~~~
newnewpdro
If Tesla can't supply enough parts introducing a dealer layer won't make the
parts magically appear.

It would add more overhead to the transaction and if history is any indicator,
sleazy interactions and business practices thrown in as well.

I'm fairly confident once the dust settles Tesla owners will be happy to not
have auto dealers in their lives. There's just a teething period while Tesla
ramps up to a mature manufacturer at scale.

~~~
greglindahl
As a data point, Tesla isn't very good at delivering body parts to independent
body shops. I don't see why dealers would be any more successful at nagging
them.

I also suspect it's a lot easier for Tesla to fix their parts problem than it
is for dealers to stop being smarmy.

------
yellowapple
Looks like a great truck, but the entirely-touchscreen interface makes it a
non-starter for me.

I'm still holding out for the Bollinger B1 (and hoping it won't be terribly
bank-breaking).

------
willart4food
This is interesting, so now Rivian is worth between 1 and 2 billion, while
TSLA is worth "only" 53; makes TSLA look undervalued.

~~~
avelis
Tesla kind of is for what it has pulled off with the Model 3. Either Tesla is
undervalued or Rivian is overvalued.

------
therealforsen
Why would an electric pickup truck sell well? Needing to use a pickup truck
isn't correlated with caring about electric cars. No one wants to try to find
a gas station with an electric car charger in the middle of the countryside,
where most people who actually need a pickup truck live. This doesn't pass my
sanity check.

~~~
freehunter
You're conflating need with desire... and you're also wrong.

Not everyone who drives a pickup needs a pickup. That's pretty apparent by the
fact that the F-150 is the highest selling vehicle in the US while less than
20% of Americans live in rural areas. Plenty of people buy pickup trucks and
also live in the city. Even living in the countryside, most people in rural
areas don't need (or even own) pickup trucks.

And pickup trucks aren't just useful for farm work. I'd wager that most of the
pickup trucks sold in the US are for commercial use. Plumbers, construction
workers, contractors, lawn care/snowplows. These people tend to live and work
in cities, and they buy pickup trucks. And what's important for a truck?
Torque. What do electric motors have? Lots of torque. For businesses buying
pickup trucks for work, they don't need range or lots of chargers. They just
need to get to the job site, park, then go back to the office at the end of
the day to charge it.

That's also ignoring the millions of people who buy pickup trucks as daily
commuter vehicles, who have the normal daily commute of 20 miles. Well within
the range of even the worst electric car in the US. Pickup trucks are a status
symbol for these people, not a work vehicle. An electric pickup is an even
greater status symbol.

~~~
therealforsen
> Plumbers, construction workers, contractors, lawn care/snowplows.

You say an electric pickup truck is a great status symbol, but I doubt it is
to the majority of people in those professions you just mentioned. The people
who view pickup trucks as a status symbol want massive and loud ones. Electric
cars are very light, and very quiet.

~~~
freehunter
>The people who view pickup trucks as a status symbol want massive and loud
ones.

Sometimes, but not always. The F-150 Platinum is neither massive nor loud but
it costs $60,000. The base price of an F-150 is around $28,000, so the
Platinum is status symbol of wealth and comfort.

If the F-150 can be used both by construction workers looking for something
basic and cheap as well as rich people looking for a luxury car, I don't see
that changing just because you swapped the V6 for an electric motor.

