
Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism - daegloe
https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2018/12/08/gut-bacteria-may-offer-a-treatment-for-autism
======
theprotocol
Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all
nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this
hypothesis.

I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line
between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms
in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it
seems that completely amoral factors can be the cause of moral, amoral, or
immoral behavior.

~~~
gboudrias
Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The
causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear,
and choice barely factors into it.

Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot
of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the
path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence
allows for a certain social stability, to the detriment of some in favor of
others.

~~~
test6554
Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences.

The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it
shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions.

Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning
signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your
hands.

~~~
75dvtwin
I do not know how to express this in civilized terms.

But I feel that biological parents that raised children, who later on become
evil and take other people lives -- are responsible, some how.

I am mentally, far from being contempt, with all these psychopaths (who (most
of them), also have seen at some point in their lives, have seen a
professional phycologist, regularly) -- go and kill defenseless kids or
church/synagogue goers.

These evil humans (if they can be called that) -- should not have existed, and
if they existed -- their evilness must, somehow, have been detected earlier.
And that's where the parents, and, perhaps, the meds-prescribing
phycologists/physiatrists come in.

I realized, that in not too distant past -- the kings and czar's suppressed
uprising by executed not just the active uprisers, but their whole families,
including wives and kids. As a deterrent.

I am not talking about that, but, may be there a way that parents can be held
accountable to the actions of their children (even if they are more adults by
the time they commit heinous crimes).

May be that will also act as deterrent against pure evil that visits those
humans.

~~~
drieddust
That's bunch of balony. I have two children who are polar opposite in
behaviour. How do you account for that?

~~~
75dvtwin
Why would there be a need to a 'account for differences in behavior?

Here is a very hypothetical scenario, I am struggling with:

A parent shows a pattern of drinking an driving under influence. As luck had
it -- nothing bad happened. Then the child, does the same (when already having
a valid driver license) -- and a horrible accident happens.

Is there some moral responsible that the parent carries? Is there criminal
responsibility?

Just as in my initial comment, I do not know if this line of thinking has any
merit at all.

Perhaps it is a 'bunch of baloney' as you put it.

I also have no idea on how to detect, that there in what instances there is an
implied accountability of a parent (or a treating phycologist/psychiatrist).

I am hoping that some folks reading this thread , have historical, or even
literature prospective that explores this angle.

How far the accountability of a parent or a treating phycologist goes/overlaps
with the accountability of the perpetrator of a heinous act.

I can see that out of all the feedback on my comment so far -- there is 0
overlap of accountability suggested.

Thank you for your feedback.

~~~
drieddust
EDIT: My apologies for the angry tone but idea of reporting on every single
deviation is not a good one. That's how you actually end up filling prison and
creating dystopia.

> A parent shows a pattern of drinking an driving under influence. As luck had
> it -- nothing bad happened. Then the child, does the same (when already
> having a valid driver license) -- and a horrible accident happens.

Children definately imitate parents. But I think your argument was the
opposite. Parents reporting on Children's behaviour if they fall out of line.

> How far the accountability of a parent or a treating phycologist
> goes/overlaps with the accountability of the perpetrator of a heinous act.

World is a messy and scary place but trying to control for every variable
might make it unlivable.

------
hyperpape
I have not read much on mouse models of autism, but I seem to recall an
undercurrent of scepticim in comments from autism researchers. Here is one
article to that effect:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/the-
limi...](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/the-limits-of-
studying-autism-in-mice/556109/).

Certainly research on mouse models of autism is a big deal: I see summaries of
new such studies multiple times a week.

------
chippy
Reading about toxoplasma (a parasite of rats which can infect humans and alter
their behaviour), I recall something about the common cold (a virus) and
behaviour. My memory is fuzzy but there was a study that indicated that those
with initial stages of a cold seek out human contact more and in the case of
women, show more skin. The implication is that the virus seeks to replicate by
altering our behaviour to transmit it to as many people as possible and the
researchers speculated it could also mean that the common cold might lead to
an increase in sex and also becoming a sexually transmitted virus.

~~~
vbuwivbiu
"the virus seeks to replicate"

variants of the virus that caused their hosts to socialize more replicated
more

~~~
zumu
Kind of a tangent, but the way you phrased it, while much more technically
correct, is totally roundabout and unnatural to a native English speaker.

I've often postulated that the necessity of a Subject in English sentences
causes us to inadvertently project agency in our descriptions of events /
phenomena that in reality don't have an "actor" in a meaningful sense.

It's fascinating to consider to what extent this false notion of causation and
agency may constrain a native English speaker's understanding of the world.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Kind of a tangent, but the way you phrased it, while much more technically
> correct, is totally roundabout and unnatural to a native English speaker.

As a native English speaker, I disagree; it is a perfectly natural way for the
intended message to be communicated in English.

> I've often postulated that the necessity of a Subject in English sentences
> causes us to inadvertently project agency in our descriptions of events /
> phenomena that in reality don't have an "actor" in a meaningful sense.

A subject need not be an (semantic, much less also self-willed) agent (and,
when it is, it can , and misleading anthropomorphization is in no way a
peculiarity of English speakers.

“Evolution favored variants which enhance host sociability” has a subject,
which is a semantic (but not self-willed) agent.

“Variants which enhanced host sociability are favored by evolution” has a
subject, which is the patient rather than the agent.

Both are quite natural English expressions, and (unlike attributing will to
the virus) accurate (or, at least, describe a plausible phenomenon.)

------
noetic_techy
My thoery:

I'm inclined to think the link in autism might be caused by the prevalence of
C-section births not passing the proper gut microbiome to some kids who are
also genetically more inclined to autism but only if the gut is screwed up at
birth.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4464665/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4464665/)

Doctors nowadays do C-sections often for unnecessary reasons, such as
expedience or shift changes or as a default because the believe its "safer":

[https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/arsdarian-c...](https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/arsdarian-
cutting-the-number-of-c-section-births/)

The wrong micro-biome eventually builds up a toxic load that causes the onset
of autistic symptoms. Most likely due to cell danger response (CDR) getting
stuck:

[https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2017-05-26-centu...](https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2017-05-26-century-
old-drug-potential-new-approach-to-autism.aspx)

Out on a limb, I know. But likely the cause is probably going to come down to
a cascade of preventable events and toxic loads causing some kind of
malfunction in those who are already gene compromised.

~~~
abledon
Also less women are breastfeeding, a process which also gives probiotics

~~~
elliekelly
Yes, this is _hugely_ important for a child and our laws in the U.S. do not
give families adequate support to allow most women to be able to provide this
crucial care for this children.[1] It's difficult for many women working white
collar jobs and almost impossible for women who work minimum wage jobs.[2]
This systemic problem is going to have long-term public health effects that we
have yet to even comprehend.

[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020209/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020209/)

[2] [https://qz.com/1034016/the-class-dynamics-of-
breastfeeding-i...](https://qz.com/1034016/the-class-dynamics-of-
breastfeeding-in-the-united-states-of-america/)

~~~
abledon
It’s like we’re crippling our own future workforce and phenotype expression
legacy sigh lol

------
salamanderman
I'm not too keen on the discouragement against self experimentation at the end
of the article in this case. Self experimentation has greatly improved insulin
pump technology in the past few years, and this situation has much much less
risk.

~~~
chapium
How good are most experiments with a sample size of 1? Can the data gathered
be independently verified?

~~~
hanniabu
It can be verified by others self experimenting with a sample size of 1,
creating an aggregated larger data set. A type of decentralized trial, if you
will.

~~~
dpatrick86
Some research is adopting this pattern too. A great example is Dr. Satchin
Panda's clinical trial on time-restricted eating. You self-select an eating
window and then document it through the app. Pretty cool stuff.
mycircadianclock.org

------
fabrice_d
A very approachable book on the topic by Giulia Enders is "Gut: The Inside
Story of Our Body's Most Underrated Organ" ([https://www.amazon.com/Gut-
Inside-Story-Underrated-Revised/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Gut-Inside-Story-
Underrated-
Revised/dp/1771643765/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1543799970&sr=8-1_)

~~~
aagha
Enders does a great (and entertaining) Ted talk on the Gut here -
[https://www.ted.com/talks/giulia_enders_the_surprisingly_cha...](https://www.ted.com/talks/giulia_enders_the_surprisingly_charming_science_of_our_gut?language=en)

------
gehwartzen
Very anecdotal but for the first couple of years of my sons life I gave him l
reuteri mostly because it is very well studied for showing improvement in
infant colic (it’s whats in Gerber Soothe brand colic drops for example) It
certainly worked wonderfully for that but his general mood was all around
better and now at four he’s extremely social. Of course he could have been
otherwise as well but we do have some family history on both sides with autism
spectrum disorders. The specific brand of l reuteri that seemed best based on
my research at the time is BioGaia Protrctis.

Interestingly l Reuteri is also found in human breast milk.

~~~
nickpsecurity
"Interestingly l Reuteri is also found in human breast milk."

When I looked into breastfeeding, different sources said it had oxytocin in it
which made people feel more connected or increased trust. Made me start
wondering if society's break from breastfeeding might be causing a lot of
social and family problems since the bootstrapping phase of trust wasn't there
anymore. That's on top of how childbirth happens in hospitals treating it like
industrial process.

Now, you say that's in breast milk. Now I'm wondering if we can add the
problems it might knock out to the list of negative effects of no
breastfeeding.

~~~
steve_taylor
Also think of the mothers who can’t breastfeed through no fault of their own.
We could potentially improve baby formula to counter the risks of not
breastfeeding.

------
yasp
Possibly of interest.

[https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2018/04/make-l-reuteri-
yogurt...](https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2018/04/make-l-reuteri-yogurt/)

[https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/70456-lactobacillus-
re...](https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/70456-lactobacillus-reuteri-atcc-
pta-6475-most-potent-thing-ever/)

------
TheAceOfHearts
I've encountered a fair bit of research and anecdotal stories showing how gut
bacteria can have all sorts of crazy effects. It really makes you wonder how
many conditions could be prevented or treated by dietary changes and
supplements. I already wrote this in a response, but Mikhaila Peterson really
opened up my eyes to the big impact diet can have on your health. To anyone
that hasn't heard of her, she switched to a carnivore diet and many of her
severe lifelong symptoms appear to have gone away.

Recently I started considering the possibility that being fat could actually a
symptom in some people. Controlling your weight is really easy when you're
fairly healthy, but when you're sick it can become much more challenging. I
used to be fairly critical of fat people, thinking that it was laziness, but I
think the numbers are just too large to chalk it up exclusively to any single
thing. There's also a lot of fat people that work incredibly hard and they
excel at tons of things, which brings the laziness hypothesis to question.
It's entirely possible that laziness plays a role in some, but when you take a
high-resolution view of the world it's rare to find single-variable answers to
complex problems.

We also know that your mouth bacteria can have a huge impact on your dental
health. There's people that barely have to brush their teeth to maintain
perfect dental health, and others that still manage to get cavities despite
following fairly rigorous routines such as brushing and flossing after every
meal. I'll note it's been a few years since I last looked into this claim so
take this comment with a grain of salt.

Trying out probiotics seems fairly safe and it could have hugely positive
effects on your health. The sibling comments from theprotocol are just one
example. To add an anecdote, I recently started taking probiotics and the
first thing I noticed after a few days was that I no longer felt tired after
eating. I've experienced a few other positive changes, but I haven't been
taking them for long enough to feel confident that those changes can be
attributed exclusively to the probiotics. My biggest issue with probiotics is
that finding good information about different products is fairly difficult. I
basically just picked a box at random out of all the choices available.

Does anyone have suggestions of good book on this topic? I've seen The Mind-
Guy Connection and The Good Gut floated around a bit, but they have mixed
reviews and the scientific rigor behind some of their claims seems to be under
question.

------
z3t4
Food and digestion is an interesting area. There are a lot of new research
being done. And theories that suggest our food intake can explain many
symptoms and diseases. Because the food market is so huge, I'm afraid we'll
see a lot of pseudo science and mumbo jumbo in the near future. So make sure
you have the bullshit detector on. The Nestle baby milk scandal comes to mind,
where doctors get a kick-back from recommending certain products. When you see
news article like this one, and others recently, it will be hard to question
future miracle products and supplement recommendations.

------
the8472
Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism in mice.

~~~
martincmartin
And therefore, it may (or may not) offer one in humans.

~~~
TaupeRanger
That's a vapid statement. Everything may or may not be a treatment for any
ailment.

~~~
diffeomorphism
Context is important.

The post it replies to says it "may offer a treatment for autism in mice." The
not-at-all vapid statement is that one should be cautious in that even if it
works in mice, there are many examples where this did not transfer to working
for humans.

------
aheilbut
Rather, gut bacteria may affect certain social behaviours in mice.

~~~
throwaway487551
How this is related to humans?

What is autism in mice in the first place?

What kind of fucking degenerates are "studying" or "modeling" a cross-species
"mental" disorder???

On species with an almost unrelated brain structure as a "model"?? What kind
of bullshit is this?

~~~
diffeomorphism
> How this is related to humans?

Feel free to experiment on humans first before trying mice.

> What is autism in mice in the first place?

Social behavior, measurable effects you would also use for diagnostics in
humans etc.

> What kind of fucking degenerates are "studying" or "modeling" a cross-
> species "mental" disorder???

People who are smarter than you, obviously.

------
prakashrj
This is what happens and comes out from guts of kids with Autism.

[https://plus.google.com/photos/112611364634545455505/albums/...](https://plus.google.com/photos/112611364634545455505/albums/5960963152806428513?authkey=COfd8Zj2oIzXmgE)

I am one of the few parents that could recover the kid from Autism. We have
been crying wolf that it's a gut related issue, but mainstream is now slowly
catching up.

------
LTjoker
The American diet has always lacked fermented foods. Once I fixed this,
everything started working again.

Now I have to actively avoid Americans that don't understand this. Some have
such strong feelings, adverse to trying new things. I've been on the receiving
end of lectures many times about how my food is rabbit food. Or it "Doesn't
have enough protine."

~~~
rootusrootus
I thought yogurt was quite popular? Even sauerkraut isn't really uncommon in
America. But I struggle to even think what would constitute an "American Diet"
unless you're using that to refer to someone who just eats hot dogs and
hamburgers.

------
objektif
A bit off topic but what is the HN consensus on probiotics? Any brands you can
recommend?

~~~
dcx
I asked this question to a gastroenterologist recently and he suggested that
people should treat them like medical drugs - don't take them at all if you
don't have digestive issues, and if you do have issues, take them with medical
guidance to help find one that works for you.

I have mild IBS and had done some exploration prior to asking this question.
In my personal experience, the above is definitely true. The wrong probiotic
can worsen symptoms or make you feel sick/feverish. But I eventually found one
that works for me, I take it daily and it definitely reduces symptoms and
makes my gut feel more solid. (I even have data proving this; I ran two three-
month data collection periods to test various interventions, quantified
symptoms, ran regressions, etc)

~~~
objektif
My experience so far has been exactly how you describe I feel like I have mild
cold when I take it. I have tried three or four brands. Do you mind sharong
what you have tried and which one is successful?

~~~
dcx
I tried 3-4 before finding one that works for me too, but unfortunately I
didn't keep track of all of the failures' names. Looking through my rough
notes and gmail, I found Now Foods Probiotic-10 and Ethical Nutrients Inner
Health Plus. The one that ultimately did the job was California Gold
Nutrition's LactoBif, which you can buy on iHerb and has a surprisingly large
volume of positive reviews on the site. I started with the 5B CFU and ramped
up to the 30B. Hope that it does something for you as well!

------
prakashrj
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12923431](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12923431)

Example that some of parents are trying to tell the world that Autism is a gut
related issue.

------
amelius
Perhaps a stupid question but can't they run some kind of differential
analysis on blood values to find out what could be causing the effect on the
brain? (I.e. take blood samples before and after introducing gut bacteria)

~~~
ben_w
The impression I get is the biology is so messy that, even if that passed an
ethics committee, they would still have difficulty isolating the stuff they
were interested in from other effects they couldn’t control for.

It’s not impossible, but it is very expensive. This is partly why medical tech
takes about 10-15 years to go from invention to deployment.

~~~
Something1234
Why would a blood analysis be difficult to get pass an ethics committee? I get
the confounding factors bit, but blood analysis seems to be a common practice.

------
beef234
The strain used is specifically:

Lactobacillus reuteri MM4-1A (ATCC-PTA-6475)

~~~
beef234
Only commercial product I'm finding with this strain is Biogaia Gastrus, but
please let me know if anyone locates it in anything else!

~~~
zackmorris
I have been using the same for a week for leaky gut and feel better. It also
supposedly fights H. pylori (the bacteria associated with stomach ulcers). I
think I may have picked up a bad strain of cow bacteria from young cheese such
as cottage cheese and casein in overnight protein supplements. I began having
IBS symptoms a few years ago but didn't know what they were. I also developed
a sensitivity to peanuts around the same time, which may have transferred to
legumes and nightshades, which triggered rather severe bouts of acne and
tendonitis, which lead me on the journey towards leaky gut and remedying it
with a low carb/keto diet. Some other things that have helped are psyllium
husk powder and good old fashioned prunes. Today my acne is completely gone
and my joint pain is reduced but I have some redness that will probably take
months to fade.

I am noticing how important gut health is to overall health as I get older. I
feel like maybe children express poor gut health in different ways, for
example by asthma, allergies, type II diabetes, acne, ADHD/hyperactivity,
autism, etc. It's looking like autoimmune diseases are tied to inflammation in
the gut, which is exacerbated by poor western diets saturated with
sugar/soy/corn and herbicides/pesticides like glyphosate (Roundup) which
disrupt intestinal flora. This is an inconvenient truth for factory farming
though so will probably take 5-10 years to show up in the literature and
become mainstream knowledge.

------
bjowen
... in a mouse model. End of line.

------
intralizee
I remember reading about how the psychiatrists in Russia, would forcibly place
persons with schizophrenia into a situation where they would have to fast for
an extended period of time and being a month or longer. Seems like they were
on the right theory.

------
En_gr_Student
Folks I know were saying this a decade ago. Is this new?

~~~
treethought
No it's not exactly new, but this study used a widely available strain of
bacteria. Additionally, this study seems to dig deeper into the physiology of
how the introduced bacteria ameliorates the symtopms of autism (improved ion
flow causing social interactions to be more rewarding).

------
stillbourne
I am incredibly skeptical about these kinds of claims.

------
hannob
The whole article is about a study on autistic mice. Except that there's no
such thing as an autistic mouse. Trying to apply the diagnosis of autism to a
mouse is so beyond ridiculous.

~~~
twtw
Care to share your reasoning? - the article describes the symptoms in mice
that the researchers observe, and it seems like a reasonable place to start.
Or do you just prefer to disparage the work of these researchers, without
explanation?

~~~
csdreamer7
Agreed, too many people state things without bothering to prove it. This study
may flag people's bullshit meters, but simply stating mice can't be autistic
is a poor way to do it.

If anyone can cite research on if mice can develop autism or not I would love
to see it.

Edit: there is a study published by Nature mouse models of autism with
behavioral genetics.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/4002082](https://www.nature.com/articles/4002082)

------
OliverJones
Running this kind of article in a general-audience magazine takes a lot of
guts (no pun intended) after all the trouble caused by another article about
autism. That was a bogus paper in The Lancet in 1998 published by Wakefield et
al. That paper, proven false, asserted a connection between Measles-Mumps-
Rubella vaccine and autism.

But the effects of that paper linger on among conspiracy theorists. Let's hope
this one doesn't have similar consequences.

Meanwhile, as a guy "on the spectrum" I'm going to try a subjective bioassay
of L. reuterii. Can't hurt.

~~~
theprotocol
If you have trouble with histamines, watch out. It actually can hurt:
[https://www.athinkingpatient.com/probiotic-l-reuteri-mast-
ce...](https://www.athinkingpatient.com/probiotic-l-reuteri-mast-cell-
activation/)

------
deytempo
Which means gut Bacteria may cause autism

------
Nasrudith
Wouldn't all of the autism cure cranks out there have gotten actual results
other than dead children if this were true? Digestion and diet have kind of
been a fixation for them along with them along with chelation - anything to
avoid the heritability elephant in the room.

~~~
tomjakubowski
Diet itself seems pretty heritable, at least for children. Up to a certain
age, we generally eat what our parents tell us to, and that is generally
pretty similar to what they're eating.

~~~
Nasrudith
It is environmental however and mutable. Wouldn't that imply that if the then
the bad old day practice of 'take the developmentally disabled kid from her
mother because she is clearly to blame - and into an institution' would have
had a positive impact.

There should be ample opportunities for diet to change even earlier on -
incidents that seem like they should add up to documented evidence if there
was something there. I mean even with a case with complications like scurvy -
the vitamin C couldn't be measured and it was there in fresh food but not most
preserved food and why citrus were the examples that could retain it. Of
course there was also some astounding utter refusal to learn there.

------
kanishkdudeja
There's no free will :)

~~~
theprotocol
I think there is free will, but like most things in life, it is a privilege
not everyone has; many people are constrained by invisible shackles. I would
wager that evil still exists, but it requires full awareness of what one is
doing when perpetrating it, and so it is more rare than we think.

(Of course, this is just an opinion.)

~~~
rexpop
This is an extremely articulate and beautiful perspective. How did you acquire
it?

~~~
theprotocol
I'm probably gonna get downvotes for appearing to bask in this attention
(which I didn't expect).

In this case it's based on a heuristic. I can't at all model human will so it
seems reasonable to start with it as infinite (since it's so vast and appears
virtually limitless, the very reason I can't model it in the first place) and
model in the constraints.

edit: also, I am a Christian and that probably factors into my view
subconsciously, although I am certain many non-Christian views would arrive to
the same conclusion.

~~~
krapp
I suspect there's no definition of free will that isn't at least implicitly
religious. It seems to me that what most people want free will to be is
supernatural - something like a soul that would exempt their identity from
being bound to a purely physical universe.

~~~
intralizee
Jansenism emphasized on predestination and is unique in being contrary to all
the religions using free will for an alternative expression. Thought it might
be worth mentioning because someone might find it interesting.

------
intralizee
Free will is an illusion and thus choices don't exist.

~~~
test6554
If you assume free will is an illusion, then it would make more sense to treat
those who threaten society as faulty machinery and scrap them.

Assuming people can admit and learn from their mistakes means you can focus on
rehabilitation and treat them with dignity.

~~~
thomasahle
> If you assume free will is an illusion, then it would make more sense to
> treat those who threaten society as faulty machinery and scrap them.

If you have a system that produces defects, you could continuously scrap them,
but you could also just fix the system so it doesn't produce defects.

~~~
humanrebar
> ...you could also just fix the system so it doesn't produce defects.

Big if true!

------
throwaway487552
Since when autistic spectrum disorders were redefined and reformulated? They
used to be genetic brain structure/biochemistry related disorders with certain
impaired social behaviors (which could be diagnosed using DSM) as their
_symptoms_.

How it is possible to "study" anything about human genetic disorders in a such
unrelated model as mice, which does not have any cortex and other major areas,
including language related one?

Why treatment of the symptoms of unrelated disorder (any poisoning or radical
gut disturbance surely affects behavioral patterns) is considered to be
related to autism in humans, which has different causes, and manifests itself
on a different brain structure and is unrelated to any gut bacteria
whatsoever?

Why this crap is considered to be a respectable science?

~~~
twtw
Diagnosis of autism has never been based on specific genetic or biochemical
causes or mechanisms. It is defined by its behavioral symptoms.

> which has different causes, and manifests itself on a different brain
> structure and is unrelated to any gut bacteria whatsoever

How do you know it has different causes, when the causes of autism have not
been enumerated?

> Why this crap is considered to be a respectable science?

I'm glad you don't get to decide. Maybe this will turn out not to have any
impact in humans, but why not let the research play out - that's science.

------
throwaway487552
In not so distant past many of weak-minded but talkative, ambitious and
narcissistic people could have find their niche in any organized religion.
Almost every fancy bullshit, as long as it fits the canon, could be accepted,
praised and even rewarded. There were never a shortage of fancy bullshit.

In the current age religions has been obsoleted, but weak-minded "creative"
people are still here. So, science became a new religion, especially when it
hit the wall of empiricism, a limitation, which has been realized by ancient
eastern philosophers (Brahman is unattainable to conditioned intellect which
could see nothing, but its conditioning). Modern day's notion of impossibility
to break an abstraction barrier (see the wiring of a processor from the level
of code) is the very same notion reformulated.

Every bizarre bullshit could be framed as a hypothesis and published, giving a
high social status of "theoretical researches" to its authors (instead of much
more appropriate status of talkative idiots). It is due to social status,
similar to those of a monk in medieval ages, which one's parents could buy for
their children by paying them through a costly elite religious school. Nothing
new under the moon.

I personally prefer to see those disconnected from reality academics, who gave
advice to Macron (based on disconnected from reality abstract notions) to tax
the population to combat climate change, to be held accountable for all the
damages caused by resulting riots and being forced to pay for their ignorant
arrogance, but this will never happen, because academics are allowed to
produce bullshit labeled as working hypothesis. The rest of us aren't.

------
mg794613
I. Don't. Want. Treatment.

I come from a poor family, with amazing parents, but with limited resources.
And sorry to say it in a time where autism "is a disease that needs to be
eradicated", but I have my whole current living standard to thank of being a
autistic.

~~~
rootusrootus
Not everyone is high functioning. A friend of mine with a nonverbal autistic
daughter might take a different view if offered a treatment.

