

What you say about others says a lot about you - toni
http://scienceblog.com/37144/research-shows-what-you-say-about-others-says-a-lot-about-you/?

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Qz
I try to avoid talking about other people, and often feel very uncomfortable
when people I'm hanging out with (or whatever) start talking about other
people. My sister does it all the time and my parents listen with rapt
attention -- I try to excuse myself as quickly as possible. There's really no
point to it other than self-gratification in one form or another.

edit: bleh, I already feel awkward for saying that about my sister, but it was
relevant to the subject...

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yannk
+1 before your edit it stroke me as funny.

There are various degrees of criticism of others (when absent). I agree I
would want to change subject if it's totally negative, but most of the time I
feel like there is also a lot of good things said and to be said.

If your parents and sister are _that_ negative about others, I guess you could
also bring that concern to them instead of fleeing :)

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Qz
Well, it's something I've observed for a long time but never said anything
about, and then this topic came along which seemed to address it exactly.

I mean, I used to do it a lot myself before, but eventually I realized that it
really changes the way you perceive and interact with other people. Even if
its not overtly negative, it establishes sort of a gulf between yourself and
the people you talk about, and you can't be honest or real with them.

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rdtsc
This is some basic psychology stuff.

I remember my professor talked about this in college. For example, to find out
about a person, during a job interview, present them with a hypothetical
situation where someone does something unusual. Or something doesn't go as
planned. Then ask the interviewee to explain why the hypothetical person did
what they did.

For example: "Susan is falling behind on her project. What happened?" Then
then let the the interviewee come up with a reason. "Well, of course, she is
stupid and doesn't know how to finish her work" would be one answer. Or "She
has tons of personal problems that get in the way" and so on.

Well, that is a very much a contrived example. Perhaps it is more useful in
clinical study as it is a little too obvious. So maybe ask them about a mutual
acquaintance, or the previous boss...

Also, beware, a lot of people know about this trick, and could just fake it.
I.e. they might just really hate the person they are talking about but they
know the reason the question was asked so the lie -- "Oh, that person is
fantastic. My skills pale compared to hers/his, they are great, yada yada..."

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Eliezer
And is there any experimental evidence showing that this method actually
works?

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rdtsc
Well I am not sure what you mean by "works"? It is designed to reveal certain
personality traits. As for research, start with the study mentioned in the
article. (It is behind a $12 pay-wall. Perhaps you know someone at a
university that can get it for you, or your local library might subscribe to
the journal. I have access to it, but I will not distribute it.)

"Perceiver effects as projective tests: What your perceptions of others say
about you." Wood, Dustin; Harms, Peter; Vazire, Simine, Journal of Personality
and Social Psychology, Vol 99(1), Jul 2010, 174-190.

Here is an excerpt from the abstract:

\---

... results provide compelling evidence that how individuals generally
perceive others is a stable individual difference that reveals much about the
perceiver's own personality.

\---

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mixu
Well, I had a look. Thank you for the reference. It seems like an interesting
idea, but I wouldn't use these findings in a casual setting like a job
interview. As a lot of reporting on scientific studies, the findings are
overstated in the linked blog. (For a quick illustration of "the science news
cycle", see: <http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1174> )

This just seems a bit too much like a Rorschach test
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test#Controversy> ), and the
interpretation that you can directly come to some conclusion about a job
applicant based on what they say about a hypothetical person is even warned
against in the actual article:

"First, the studies clearly demonstrate that perceiver effects represent more
than simply the projection of an individual’s self-image onto other people."

Projective tests have their uses in clinical psychology (e.g. with the
crazies) - but whether you would want to apply them to normal situations is
questionable.

"In each study, we found regular relationships between personality traits and
perceptions of others. Individuals who perceived others positively reported
higher agreeableness (particularly aspects associated with friendliness and
low hostility); higher life satisfaction; and lower endorsement of measures of
personality disorders, depression, and antisocial attitudes."

In other words, the test is likely to tell you two things: first, how positive
you are (which is unsurprising, since positivity is almost by definition
related to seeing things and others in a positive light) and second whether
you are not totally nuts (e.g. positive people are likely to be associated
with lower measures of personality disorders, depression and antisocial
attitudes).

But in non-clinical settings - such as in a job interview? "The magnitude of
individual differences in the positivity of perceptions of others is fairly
large, and individual differences in perceiver positivity impacted judgments
of single targets to a considerable degree." That is, the positivity measure
is stable, but there is a lot of variance. This suggests that you don't want
to use this for finding out much more than how positive a person is - and if
that is your sole criteria in a job interview, good luck!

Edit: to clarify that last quote - it basically says that among a normal group
of college students, positivity measures have high individual differences and
these differences impact judgments to a high degree. So big differences in the
results of the measure may be simply explained by individual differences in
positivity measures.

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krschultz
Useful advice I heard as a child: don't judge others on how they treat you,
judge them on how they treat other people.

If the guy you are having a business lunch with is extremely nice to you, but
an asshole to the waiter, what does that say about how you will be treated
after you enter the contract you are discussing?

If the girl you just started dating seems super nice, but hates every person
around her for one reason or another, what will she treat you like after 5
years?

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nkurz
Multiple-choice meta-reactions:

A) This is nonsense. Yes, the social construct of 'mental health' obviously
excludes those who are deeply disturbed by the social status quo. Of course
there is a strong correlation between having a low opinion of the people
around you and being depressed, but simply adopting a rosier view of the world
at best cures only the symptom.

B) Wow, this is great! I love it when scientific studies can provide insight
into things we intuit but have trouble putting into words. I've always thought
this, and it feels great to see others confirming my ideas. I can't wait to
read the full paper, but until then I'll remind myself that a positive outlook
will help both me and those around me.

C) Both A and B.

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cracki
A. definitely. i don't know if i'm a realist or a pessimist, but aren't they
really the same?

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lelele
They aren't. I wonder why only pessimists keep saying they are just realists.

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donaq
I submit that those people just aren't narcissistic enough. I am narcissistic,
but I don't often have negative opinions about other people. Mostly I just
don't form opinions about other people because I am too involved with myself!
(and my computer)

Seriously, though, I call bullshit. If a friend asks for your opinion about,
say, a potential hire whom you're acquainted with, and you know he's
antisocial and incompetent, do you try to say positive things about him? Also,
opinions about other people are a relative to the abilities and attitudes of
the parties involved, aren't they? If you're Superman, earthlings are all
weaklings. If you're Mr. Glass, then just about everyone is stronger than you.
I say you should try to form objective opinions about other people instead of
either trying to see only the good or the bad, and only when you find that all
your opinions skew in one direction do you potentially have a problem (or you
could be Superman).

~~~
lelele
There are many way to say one person is incompetent: "He is worthless.", "He
is not experienced enough." and so on. That many ways to say things say
something about you.

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1053r
Wow, this research is really applicable to job interviews. I'm adding some
questions that are designed to get at this trait to all my interviews from now
on.

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Silhouette
Yes, that's what we need: more questions in job interviews asked and assessed
by unqualified armchair psychologists who once read something on the
intertubes.

Oddly, I am now both forming a negative impression of another poster and
becoming depressed at the same time...

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Alex3917
This study is really just confirming common sense, so I think you're being too
harsh here. Obviously sometimes a person can legitimately have had a bad boss
previously, but a lot of the time if someone is badmouthing their old
boss/roomate/girlfriend it suggests a good chance of them having issues.

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plemer
That author is a douchebag.

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joelmichael
Do you have positive things to say about negative people, or only negative
things?

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sradu
Perception is Projection.

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codexon
Isn't it obvious that being surrounded by people you like will give you a
better mental state? And conversely, being with people you hate gives you a
bad mental state.

This says nothing about your true qualities.

~~~
lelele
It shuts about your qualities, instead.

What annoys you about people? Do you try to understand them? As the old adage
goes: "He who knows everything, forgives everything."

Getting along with people we like and who like us is effortless. But how well
we are able to get along with people we don't like or who don't like us, tells
how much effort we are both willing and able to make to build a rapport.

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myffical
My hunch says that this is a culture-specific study. The findings might break
down in some Asian cultures, especially those in which it is polite to speak
highly of everyone, regardless of one's true feelings.

~~~
lelele
Nice to learn that. I wonder whether it would be possible to distinguish
between polite comments and sincere ones. I think so, but I would like to
test.

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tptacek
Uh oh.

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electromagnetic
It's nice when a saying you use frequently is proven correct. This is
something I've always said to friends and family when people say cruel or
hurtful things.

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lelele
I absolutely agree. We can't avoid talking about ourselves, more so - and in
an unfiltered way - whenever we are talking about others.

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araneae
Alternative explanation: people who are surrounded with better people are more
happy.

This study in no way controls for the fact that people may be somewhat
accurately rating people in their lives.

~~~
lelele
Common wisdom agrees instead: "Man with wicked conscience: he behaves
wickedly, and he views others' motives as wicked too." (Italian original
proverb: "Uomo di mala coscienza: chi la fa, la pensa.") That is: we are
inclined to judge others according to our view of the world.

EDIT: corrected translation

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lelele
Er, a more literal translation is: "Man with a wicked conscience: what he
would do, he thinks others would too."

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euroclydon
I think we could use a little more information. Many people here, me included,
like to argue with others just to have a healthy debate in order to work
through our our opinion on a matter. We like to play the devil's advocate. Is
that behavior exempt from the study's conclusion or does being a hacker go
hand-in-hand with neurosis and narcissism?

I will say that forcing myself to see the best in people and often times the
worst in myself, makes it easier to form relationships and to be happy in
general.

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chc
The article is about how you judge other people. Debating the merits of one
idea against another isn't judging anyone, so it's not relevant.

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cabalamat
> _Debating the merits of one idea against another isn't judging anyone_

Yes it is. If you say an idea is wrong, you are judging the people who believe
it as deluded.

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chc
Not really. "Deluded" is not a personal characteristic, it's the receiving end
of an action — a synonym of "deceived." If you concluded that the person is
_easily deluded_ or _willfully wrong_ , that would be a personal judgment, but
merely believing their ideas to be incorrect is not judging them.

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16s
I disagree. I prefer honest people and at times honesty is negative. Some
people are mean and horrific. How could a Jew describe Hitler positively? Tell
the truth, just because it happens to be negative is not a bad thing and does
not make _you_ a bad person or negative minded with low self-esteem, etc.

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lelele
How would a Jew describe Hitler positively? She could say he was out of his
mind, and that would tell you that she considers Hitler's actions out of this
world, even for the most evil - but still sane - person. That would tell you
she is very understanding even of nasty people. OTOH, if she says is he was
very cruel, that would say that she considers Hitler's action in the realm of
human behavior. Whatever she says, that will tell you something about her.

The article says that "a person’s _tendency_ to describe others in positive
terms is an important indicator of the positivity of the person’s own
personality traits". It doesn't say you only tell good things about others.

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flowereater
A similar article from 4 years ago:
[http://tastyresearch.com/2006/10/12/people-take-on-the-
trait...](http://tastyresearch.com/2006/10/12/people-take-on-the-traits-they-
describe-in-others/)

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redorb
we used to say "only Hurt people; hurt people." and found it to be true that
when slander showed its ugly head it was in affect a person letting the rest
know that they are hurting..

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xtho
I love it when a statement begins with "Research shows ..."

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petercooper
It's the new "it turns out.."

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xtho
I simply hope you were ironic since both phrases should be avoided when
writing about science.

