
Apple Magic Trackpad - mickeyben
http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/
======
pilif
Back in the days, I always preferred the Trackpoints the IBM ThinkPads used
and I never quite liked the trackpads. I'm even going as far as to say that
I'm quite the trackpad hater - they never felt precise to me and required way
too frantic finger movement to be really comfortable for me.

But when I moved to Apple hardware, I basically was stuck with the trackpads,
but this time around, it was different. The bigger size meant less finger
movement and with the advent of multi touch, it suddenly felt like a more
"natural" way to control the machine.

With the newer Macbook pros came this "the trackpad is the button"
functionality and while it took me a day or so of getting used to, I
absolutely cannot work with the dedicated button pads any more. Seing how
quickly this became muscle memory, I assume that they did something (no idea
what) right when they moved to that design.

This is how I went from "I hate trackpads" to "trackpads are the only really
natural way to control the machine".

With this in mind, this new Apple device really interests me and I can't wait
to get my hands on one. At worst it'll be a companion to my trackball, at
best, it'll replace it (still also having a mouse connected for the eventual
UT match though)

~~~
pixelbath
So, Apple trackpads are better in that they are more precise? Not being a Mac
user, it's hard for me to understand what advantage a trackpad like this gives
over any other third-party trackpad, other than the multitouch capability.

Please help me understand why people are gushing over a $70 trackpad (even
made by Apple), when most people mock similar input devices costing over $30.

~~~
gamble
Two reasons.

First, external multitouch trackpads have been basically unobtainable until
now. Apple bought the one company that used to make them and incorporated
their technology into Apple products years ago. The only other model I've seen
was an obscure Japanese import that only supported Windows. If you like
trackpads, the Magic Trackpad is the first time in years you can buy one for
your desktop.

Second, Apple makes the best trackpads in the industry by a huge margin.
They're smooth and precise to a degree that PC laptop trackpads seem incapable
of matching. The experience is comparable to the touchscreen on an iPhone or
iPad. If you're not a Mac user it can be hard to appreciate the difference;
I'm always shocked at how awful PC trackpads are every time I use non-Apple
hardware. I'm used to hearing people complain about how much they hate
trackpads, but if everyone had an Apple trackpad I suspect opinions would be
quite different.

~~~
sprout
>Apple makes the best trackpads in the industry by a huge margin.

Do you have any research to back that up? I don't doubt that Apple trackpads
are of high quality, probably even the best.

That said, the placebo effect can be very powerful when attempting to gauge
how easy it is to interact with a computer.

~~~
city41
I honestly don't think it's placebo. MacBooks are the only laptop I've ever
owned where I've never felt inclined to use a mouse instead of the trackpad.
They really are that good.

~~~
nevinera
>I honestly don't think it's placebo.

Well if you did, it wouldn't work!

~~~
niels_olson
I've used a lot of pointers (keyboard, joystick, mouse, trackball, trackpad,
multitouch, retinal motion, wacom) on a lot of operating systems (TI-94A,
solid-state radar displays, Apple II, whatever was behind ACDS and CEC,
Windows, Linux, Solaris, Mac, FreeBSD, etc, etc) in a lot of different
contexts (tracking targets, directing fire, games, fetal ultrasound, planning
and reading MRI, CT, Da Vinci machines, surgical microscopes) etc, etc, etc.

I don't think the Mac trackpad is anywhere close to a placebo. It's a
parachute issue. (<http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/327/7429/1459>).
For the platform (personal computing), the mac trackpad is a hands-down
winner.

~~~
city41
Keep in mind though, it only really performs that well in OSX. In Windows
there are gestures that clash with each other, in particular trying to right
click a link in Chrome causes the window to scroll, very frustrating.

------
Maro
I can't get my head around how Apple manages to come out with products that
are cool enough they could come from a startup with some very motivated
founders working day and night.

Almost all other companies with >100 employees are turning out mostly crappy
products that no one gets excited about. When's the last time you talked about
a Xerox printer or HP laptop? In my mind this is why a company like Nokia
can't make a comeback into the smartphone market: they're probably unable to
motivate a small team and then let them work out a cool product. Or they can't
amortize away the risk of that team being on the wrong track, the way most
startups are.

Apple can consistently pull this off, how do they do it?

~~~
smackfu
Because people will buy their products on faith, where a startup would just be
ignored. Belkin could release this exact same thing and it would be mocked.

~~~
gamble
Apple's multitouch technology comes from a startup called Fingerworks that
Apple bought years back. Fingerworks trackpads were so well liked that they're
still selling on eBay for hundreds of dollars.

The difference between Belkin and Apple is that Belkin has a history of
mediocrity, while Apple does not. Apple earned their enormous reservoir of
good will through years of great products.

~~~
smackfu
Well fine, replace belkin with fingerworks. How many people have even heard of
their trackpad?

Apple has the power to move something out of a niche market.

------
marknutter
I actually think combining the Magic Mouse with Better Touch Tool
(<http://blog.boastr.net/?page_id=1722>) is a better solution. I use the
trackpad on my Macbook because it's more convenient than using a mouse when
I'm on the go. In the office I prefer a mouse for precision, but I also want
multi-touch gestures, and with Better Touch Tool I can pretty much customize
my Magic Mouse any way I want to, which actually lends more credence to the
hyperbole "Magic."

I have mine set up to move from tab to tab on two-finger swipes to the left
and right, refresh the page with a three-fingered swipe up, close the tab with
a three-finger swipe down, and two fingers up and down will activate expose
and spaces respectively. There are a lot more gestures available to customize
as well, I'm irritated Apple doesn't allow you that level of customization out
of the box.

So with all that said, I think the track pad doesn't add much value, at least
for me. My advice is to get the Magic Mouse, unless you actually hate it as a
mouse (which some people do).

------
buro9
Finally some of the stuff from fingerworks starts to surface as add-ons
products for desktops. I've been wanting something to replace my long dead
fingerworks keyboard, so I for one am happy.

Now... if only there were drivers for something other than just OSX.

~~~
robgough
I would replace my mouse at work with this in a heartbeat, but I'm a .net
developer by day and _need_ those windows drivers. (I use an MBP at home)

I think they're missing a huge opportunity here by not providing those
drivers.

Obviously an opportunity they have decided they don't care about, I just wish
they did.

~~~
napierzaza
Maybe if enough people ask? Or the product is generally popular enough?

The iPod and the iPhone are only so popular because they embraced PC in all
its ... glory. Hopefully they're already working on this.

~~~
bombs
The iPod didn't support Windows when it was released. Maybe Apple are doing
the same thing here; I'm sure by not supporting Windows, they're able to get a
better product out much quicker.

~~~
robgough
Fair point. It would be nice if they would at least commit to bringing Windows
support in the future.

I can't imagine this would affect actual sales though, just another of example
of when Apple's secrecy can be irritating for some of us.

~~~
irons
For Apple to commit to anything in advance, let alone Windows support for a
brand-new peripheral, would be evidence of takeover by pod people, and thus
not nice at all.

Windows support for the original iPod arrived two years later.

~~~
redrobot5050
Again, they were testing the market with the true believers. The music
industry viewed the 2-3 million mac users back then as a nice microcosm they
could experiment on. If it failed, it wouldn't get much press because back
then nobody used macs.

------
perplexes
Looks like they're bringing out their version of the iGesture pad:
[http://www.amazon.com/Fingerworks-IGESTURENUMPAD-iGesture-
Pa...](http://www.amazon.com/Fingerworks-IGESTURENUMPAD-iGesture-
Pad/dp/B00013MVT4). Apple acquired Fingerworks in 2005, which is how they got
the multitouch technology used in iPhones, MacBooks, and now the Magic
Trackpad.

The thing I'm wondering: My iGesture pad still works, and still has _way_ more
gestures than the Trackpad. For example - twisting clockwise with four fingers
is "close" (it presses command-w for you), which is pretty natural. Will the
Magic Trackpad be able to handle this with software updates, or will we have
to hack it to do the things its predecessor could do 5 years ago?

Also, be sure to check out all of the crazy multitouch products Fingerworks
had before they were acquired. My favorite was the _insane_ keyboard at the
bottom of <http://fingerworks.com/>.

~~~
z5h
I've owned <http://www.fingerworks.com/igesture_tech.html> for around 5 years.
SOLID product. I'm glad I got one before they were acquired. It's definitely
saved my mousing hand. And has way more features than Apple's product. Still,
the iGesture cost me around $400 here in Canada. So to get something even
close for $70, isn't bad.

------
adolph
I'm amazed that Apple seems so set on the AA battery format for desk
peripherals that it is releasing a AA battery charger with the trackpad. I
don't find AA objectionable, but Apple's marketing regarding removable
batteries centers around "we can pack more battery in by eliminating the
packaging."

~~~
replicatorblog
My guess is that it has to do with the battery losing its ability to hold
charge with time. It makes sense to engineer a massive new battery for the
iPhone or Macbook, but these peripherals don't have the same volume or margin
cushion to absorb the cost, hence off the shelf battery technology.

Also, I think most people expect to change out a computer every couple years,
but a mouse is supposed to last longer. If the thing became incapable of
holding charge after 18 months it would get customers riled.

After using a Magic Mouse for 6 months, I can say the rechargeable battery
station is a must buy, I have to change my MM batteries every 3 weeks or so.

~~~
ynniv
Having used both, I am disappointed with the longer lifespan of disposable
batteries. I hate throwing them away, but with my usage they can last almost
twice as long. On the other hand, I might mind less if I had a better charging
configuration.

~~~
forgottenpaswrd
You can buy hight quality batteries that last long more than alcalines. I use
varta +2100mAh.

------
maukdaddy
As a lefty this would be awesome.

{Magic Trackpad}{Keyboard}{Mouse}

Ultimate productivity!

~~~
pilif
this is an awesome idea.

I'm able to use both hands equally well (though I might be hinging a tad bit
to prefer the left hand). This could mean that I can alternate my pointing
hand here and then

------
stcredzero
What I want just a bit more than this: an iPad app that emulates the Trackpad
and does just a bit more.

For starters, a command-key could reconfigure it into a numeric keypad. Then
incorporate custom per-app controls. (There are already iPad apps that do
this.)

Such an iPad app would have the promise of the Optimus OLED keyboard. It would
be much better, since high fabrication costs wouldn't be a barrier. It would
have the potential to be a game-changer in terms of PC productivity.

Imagine integration with Eclipse for such a device. For example, when you
execute your app in debug mode, it could configure itself as a debug remote.
When you switch to an editor window, it could display editor macros and
shortcuts.

Alternative: a 5" or 7" multitouch LCD device with a similar form factor to
the Trackpad that doubles as a universal remote.

~~~
Sidnicious
You don't have to look at a trackpad to use it.

I think that putting screens on trackpads, keyboards, or remotes (you use them
to control _other screens_ ) is a horrible idea.

~~~
stcredzero
_You don't have to look at a trackpad to use it._

Looking is optional for the device I described. You'd only have to look in
moments of managing greater complexity, which is the correct time.

 _I think that putting screens on trackpads, keyboards, or remotes (you use
them to control other screens) is a horrible idea._

For a DVR, the second screen is very useful. You get context-driven visual
feedback _without_ impinging on the video content in the main screen. Someone
could check on a game or look up a related Wikipedia entry without
interrupting everyone else's viewing. Someone could queue the next YouTube bit
without the same.

------
regularfry
Is there _any_ chance of this pairing with a non-Apple desktop? I'd dearly
love to join in the multitouch trackpad fun, but my main workstations are
Ubuntu.

~~~
_delirium
There's been some work on writing multitouch drivers for Linux: <http://lii-
enac.fr/en/projects/shareit/linux.html>

It's a bit of effort because it requires new functionality throughout the
software stack, from the low-level kernel drivers to higher-level X hooks, and
ideally in the future, hooks in UI toolkits to do more application-level
things with gestures.

------
hexis
Does anyone know if this will have some sort of way to trigger a "middle
click", like when one clicks on the scroll wheel? As far as I've seen with
Apple mice, they've never had support for middle click.

~~~
irons
The Magic Mouse supports a three-finger click, which is interpreted as a
middle click.

~~~
albemuth
Uhh, no it doesn't. At least not without third party software.

~~~
irons
Fair enough. The Magic Mouse hardware supports a three-finger click, and any
of the various inexpensive third-party packages like jitouch et al make the
Magic Mouse a viable input device.

------
joelesler
Please Apple, gain the cut, copy, and paste (and other gestures) on the
trackpad that you bought from FingerWorks. Freaking genius.

~~~
catch23
You can get 3rd party tools to configure this if you want. Use something like
BetterTouchTool if you want to configure a gesture to fire up GMail. Right now
I have a 3-finger swipe up for copy, and 3-finger swipe down for paste. I also
have a 4-finger gesture for switching between tabs in google chrome.

However, I think there's probably a limit on how many gestures you can keep in
your head, it's a lot easier remembering keyboard shortcuts than gestures. I
can probably only keep track of five different gestures per app, but I'm sure
I can probably recall at least 20 different keyboard combos when I use a tool
like emacs.

------
Malic
I have some doubts that this will be comfortable to use for hours at a time.
The Magic Mouse is bad on the wrists because of it's low profile. I have to
wonder if the same will happen here. I suppose a bit of experience with using
it is what it will take.

~~~
csixty4
I use a bean bag under my wrist when I use the Wacom touch pad. Works great.

------
teilo
Hmm. Maybe for my Mac Mini in my entertainment center, but I much prefer a
trackball at the desk.

No doubt BetterTouchTool will be updated to support this, making it far more
useful: <http://blog.boastr.net/>

~~~
cwalcott
Yeah, I could see using it for my Mac Mini, I just wish you could somehow
attach it to the wireless keyboard. Having two separate devices on your lap
doesn't really work...

------
chunkbot
For wireless peripherals, non-charging AA batteries are a better choice than
any charging dock or solution.

Why spend every day docking/undock the thing (or charging the batteries when
they die) when I can slip new batteries in once every 6 months?

~~~
deno
If you have a digital camera of some sort then you're probably already
accustomed to charging batteries anyway. I think recharging batteries is less
messy than buying new ones each time. You have to stock them ahead of time
(storage area), and remember to restock after resupplying your device (which
you'll probably forget). Don't forget that each time you have to access new
batteries you'll need to fight with those plastic containers and chances are
you won't have scissors on you, use knife instead and kill or wound yourself
in the process.

Also, environment.

~~~
chunkbot
I'm inclined to agree with you regarding devices that you take outside the
house, like a digital camera. My comment was more about desktop peripherals.
To address your points:

1) A 24 pack of AA batteries somewhere near your desk should last over a year,
and you should have storage area somewhere to accommodate it.

2) AA batteries generally come in easy-to-rip cardboard packs, so no fighting
with the container and hurting yourself.

3) The environment argument could fall either way; I suspect neither of us has
seen definitive research regarding the total environmental cost of disposable
vs. rechargeable batteries.

~~~
deno
For devices that you keep at home any kind of batteries are really just a
workaround for actual wireless electricity. Anyway my point is that most
people that buy wireless trackpads probably already own power-sucking devices
like digital cameras and so have invested, and are accustomed, to charging
their batteries. In this case keeping additional non-rechargeable batteries
wouldn't provide any benefits and would only add to confusion, as you have to
be careful not to mix them.

If you are not already enslaved to your digital camera's power inefficiency
then perhaps buying brand new batteries might be more comfortable.

In regard to environment your 24 pack of AAs wouldn't probably have any
significant difference whatsoever and you won't live long enough to observe
any. The impression, though, that rechargeable batteries are more
environmental friendly will provide you with nice dopamine boost each time
your device needs resupplying.

------
adolph
I wonder:

* If it will be Inkwell compatible someday if not now: <http://www.apple.com/accessibility/macosx/physical.html>

* If it will BT pair with iPhone like the BT keyboard.

~~~
allwein
No, just like the existing trackpads on the MacBook Pro, it's not Inkwell
compatible.

And No, since you can't pair a bluetooth mouse with the iPhone, you also won't
be able to pair a trackpad.

------
Vitaly
next step is to make a one giant trackpad with keys printed on top of it. os
if you touch it its a key press and if you drag it its a mouse movement. now
only need to figure out how to mouse click ;)

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Fingerworks had a keyboard exactly like that, many years ago:

<http://www.fingerworks.com/>

They got bought by Apple for their multi-touch experience.

------
rbxbx
I've been waiting years for this. YAY.

------
fragmede
I was wondering when Apple would get around to doing that. I want Apple's
version of this -
[http://www.google.com/products/catalog?&cid=102343875510...](http://www.google.com/products/catalog?&cid=10234387551099087518#)
\- Keyboard + trackpoint/pad, and make an external usb keyboard out of it.

------
wmeredith
I'd really like it if two of these would play nice with other. I could see
doubling up with one on each side of my keyboard. (Been thinking about this
for a while.) I know little to nothing about hardware (UX/marketing guy) does
any one more knowledgeable consider this use of the driver probable as built
in functionality?

------
zacharypinter
Does anybody know the dimensions of this trackpad? I've been looking for a way
to accomplish something like the image below with 2-finger scrolling (either
above or below the thumbkeys) on my Kinesis Advantage:

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert-p/4408732537/>

------
foomarks
I love this idea, but how come they couldn't include this functionality into
the Magic Mouse too? (Maybe next version?)

------
usaar333
How are Apple trackpads in terms of ergonomics? When I first started using a
laptop 5 years back, I found myself feeling massive pain in my wrists as a
result of using the touchpad. To this day, I find a mouse far more comfortable
to use; however, I haven't had much of a chance to try out the touchpad on
Macs.

------
sigzero
Engadget review:

[http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/27/apple-magic-trackpad-
firs...](http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/27/apple-magic-trackpad-first-hands-
on/)

"It feels just like using a slightly larger version of a MacBook or MacBook
Pro pad. And we mean exactly, right down to the multitouch gestures and whole-
pad click."

------
JeremyHerrman
Now that all macs can take advantage of gestures, I wonder when Apple will
include some of the iOS inertial scrolling to OS X. It's such a simple change
that (for me) makes a big difference in functionality. I was happy to see
inertial scrolling added to Google Maps not too long ago.

~~~
weaksauce
The magic mouse has that type of scrolling as a setting you can enable.

------
akamaka
I've been waiting for this since the rumors first started surfacing. As
someone who uses a $100+ Kensington trackball, this is a bargain.

If anyone has information on Windows 7 drivers for the Magic Mouse (whichare
presumably the same), let us know!

Otherwise I'll have to write them myself. :)

------
username3
Can it track eleven points of contact like MacBooks?

[http://www.gottabemobile.com/2009/11/09/track-11-fingers-
on-...](http://www.gottabemobile.com/2009/11/09/track-11-fingers-on-your-
macbook-inconceivable/)

~~~
dedward
They did say it was the exact same touchpad, just bigger... so very likely.

------
davidedicillo
If you use BetterTouchTool or MagicPrefs with your Magic Mouse you can get all
those touch features in your mouse, that is definitely better when it comes to
move a cursor.

~~~
Hovertruck
I think it's a matter of preference. I've been saying how much I wanted to
ditch my mouse for a desktop version of the MBP trackpad since I got my
laptop.

~~~
robgough
Here Here. I used to hate trackpads, so much so that I only ever used laptops
with "nipples" (see ThinkPad).

The MacBook with two-finger scroll was revolutionary for me, and I've never
seen any manufacturer beat that pad.

Well, any _other_ manufacturer. The glass trackpad on my MBP is something
else, and this is just a bigger version of that. Awesome.

Apple are unbelievably ahead of the curve on this, I'm not quite sure why the
other manufacturers are failing so badly. The trackpad on my HP workstations
are as-good-as unusable in comparison. I always have to use a mouse.

------
tmlee
I dont know, it just seems weird to be positioned on the right (where the
mouse is)... well, won't know till i try it~

~~~
dedward
Just because nobody's really done it before... it does seem weird - especially
if you want to use a mouse.

\- It's cordless - you can put it on the left or right or anywhere else. \-
You don't strictly need a mouse.

\- I remember thinking the touch-surface on the magic moues was silly -but now
I miss it when Idon't have it... and I actually suspect (won't know until I
try) that the increased size of the new touchpad will be an important factor -
you'll essentially be able to use a finger like a mouse on a pad - without
needing to necessarily resposition very much - giving you veyr mouse-like
behavior.

------
colinprince
How do you right-click?

~~~
dougp
If its like the laptops you press down with 2 fingers at once.

------
mortenjorck
10/GUI just became a little more possible today.

------
jcsalterego
I've got a MBP hooked up to an external monitor, and I find myself using the
four-finger upward-swipe to show my desktop.

That's about it.

------
matwiemann
One word: Finally.

------
napierzaza
This is a great idea, it's one of the reasons I wasn't prepared to get a
desktop over a laptop (besides the obvious portability).

I think in the future there will be more integration of something like the
iPad or the iPhone as direct interface to the computer.

------
jlcgull
Now Apple just needs to incorporate this into the "iPad Keyboard Dock" and
I'll be more than happy to buy!

~~~
raimondious
How would that work? There's no cursor for it to control on the iPad.

~~~
roc
It _could_ work. They could add a simulator-esque cursor without too much
technical trouble.

That said, it _shouldn't_. Why would anyone prefer indirect manipulation of a
cursor over direct manipulation of the screen elements? If you've got an iPad
in a keyboard dock, you're primarily writing and occasionally navigating. I
don't see the use case.

Gorilla-arm would only set in if you were primarily navigating, in which case
you'd just undock the thing.

------
may
I read this and thought this was a joke.

------
Vitaly
I WANT THIS! ;)

------
ck2
So, does the bluetooth disconnect when you accidentally touch the bottom left
side with your thumb?

------
vlucas
This looks like a nice product and I do really love the multitouch pad on the
MacBooks, but I'm so sick of Apple calling everything "Magic" and
"Revolutionary".

------
suraj
It should have been a mouse pad you can touch. Probably with a different
design for mouse (you just need a metal point instead of trackball/optics).

~~~
dedward
You can use your finger....

