
Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust - reddotX
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-13/tesla-analysts-play-catch-up-as-shares-leave-targets-in-dust
======
oliverx0
According to Robinhood: “Tesla's stock has jumped 35% over the past month,
becoming the most valuable American car company ever. GM and Ford produced a
combined 39x as many cars as Tesla did in 2019, but the electric carmaker is
now more valuable than GM and Ford combined. Oh, and Tesla lost almost a
billion dollars over the past year while GM and Ford made over $10B in profit.
Investors care more about future profits, and they think Tesla's e-cars are
the future.”

I still don’t get it. You may think it’s the future, but to justify such a
valuation over all other car companies which have been operating for years,
and who can compete with Tesla, it seems a little extreme IMO.

EDIT: after reading some comments it seems my conclusions might be inaccurate.
All I wanted to point out was that the numbers were shocking at first sight.

~~~
jppope
Here's what you're missing... Most of the major automakers: Ford, Toyota,
Honda, Nissan, Mazda, etc do not have viable business models in the near
future. They are so far behind in sustainable transportation its only a matter
of time until they lose their economies of scale and are no longer viable
businesses. It's an "Iphone moment"... the other car companies have great
"flip phones" right now.

~~~
jansan
iPhones did not need a charging network. They did not have any disadvantages
besides the high price, which made them even more desirable. But I just do not
see average people who live in condos buy an EV anytime soon.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
> They did not have any disadvantages besides the high price

iPhones couldn't run Flash (which powered all of the interactive content on
the internet at the time), couldn't send MMS (which was the way everyone
shared photos at the time) or run apps (which was how feature phones added
functionality at the time).

"Why on Earth would anyone want one of those!?" was a pretty common reaction,
yet they still sold like hotcakes. In the case of Flash and MMS, the whole
mobile internet changed to suit the iPhone. In the case of apps, Steve Jobs
finally relented, leading to the single biggest software marketplace in the
world.

~~~
_jal
> "Why on Earth would anyone want one of those!?"

That reaction really only came from makers of competing phones. (RIM execs
famously refused to believe the battery life was possible, Balmer threw very
unconvincing dismissals.)

Everyone else was standing in line to buy one.

~~~
zwischenzug
I think this is hindsight talking.

I remember thinking (and hearing):

'Way too expensive'

'I want a tactile keyboard'

'Nice, but I don't need one'

and so on.

~~~
addicted
The only commonwealthidespread complaint was about the lack of 3G and
copy/paste.

However, the overwhelming response to the iPhone was extremely positive. Even
from non Apple sources.

RIM didn’t think the iPhone was possible when it was first released. Google
instantly changed the direction of their Android project when the iPhone was
released.

~~~
clouddrover
> _The only commonwealthidespread complaint_

Maybe also complaints about bad autocompletion?

------
cs702
I have an inkling that Tesla has now gained _long-term credibility_ , and
we're on the cusp of seeing much broader adoption by _a mass of non-early
adopters_ \-- people who will evaluate buying a Tesla the same way they would
evaluate any other brand, based on boring criteria like long-term quality,
day-to-day reliability, service convenience, overall reputation, interior
features, exterior design, and resale value. The stock market appears to be
pricing this scenario.

Conversely, the worst-case scenario for Tesla as a business, at this juncture,
may be that it finds itself unable to remain financially sustainable over
time... and ends up getting acquired by another car marker salivating over the
prospects of getting its hands on the company's technology and infrastructure.

PS. I write this as someone who has purchased and owned multiple luxury
European vehicles (mainly BMW and Mercedes) for the past 20+ years; for the
first time, I'm seriously considering switching over to a Tesla when I replace
my current vehicle.

------
brenden2
How do Tesla owners feel about the quality of their cars? I'm genuinely
curious.

This is merely an anecdote, but in my experience it seems like the overall
quality of similarly priced automobiles from more traditional luxury carmakers
is much higher. The only significant advantage of the Tesla is the fact that
it's 100% electric.

Also, this is merely a subjective personal preference, but I just don't like
the style of Teslas very much. The lack something, and the style has a
cheapness to it.

With that said, TSLA has been helping my portfolio, so I appreciate that.

~~~
typon
It was -5C in Toronto last night. This morning, I couldn't get into my Model 3
because the door glass was frozen. I got some hot water from the washroom and
poured it over the glass and got it unstuck. Then I couldn't drive because the
sideview mirrors were stuck folded. Got some more hot water and got them
unstuck. Maybe the car is designed for California weather only, but in the
winter i've had these types of issues. Other than that, its a joy to drive :)

~~~
plussed_reader
Tesla's were designed to function from Norway to DRC; here's an interesting
design question:

How do you keep the heater from decreasing your range too greatly in cold
environments? No passive heat source on EVs.

~~~
isoprophlex
I'm joking but.. This Citroen has the answer! A petrol powered heater

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Berlingo_%C3%A9...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Berlingo_%C3%A9lectrique)

" _Heating_

In order to minimise battery usage, a petrol driven heater is fully integrated
to vehicle. It typically takes 5 to 10 minutes to warm and provides excellent
cabin heating."

------
Diederich
I've been a big Tesla fan for a while now.

Certainly a big part of me is happy, perhaps even a bit smug, to see the share
price so high.

Even though I'm pretty sure electric vehicles are the future, and that Tesla
has, at a minimum, brought that future closer to the now, I still think its
share price is borderline insane, and, in the end, doesn't serve the company
or the vision as well as a more moderate, stable price.

I also acknowledge that its CEO has not only not taken reasonable steps to
'calm things down', but has done the opposite.

Having said all that, I could be wrong, and perhaps Tesla's sales are
substantially driven by all of this crazy energy, positive and negative.

------
aj7
The correction will be precipitous. There is no reason to believe that even at
the 1M vehicle level, they can be so profitable, when engaged with direct
competition with other experienced producers, to justify such a market
capitalization. The same cost issues will affect all companies, and I believe
some Tesla technical advantages will erode.

~~~
JKCalhoun
Agree. Their customers are those who are making bank on the bull market run
we've been riding. If the market should fall, Tesla will fall hardest.

------
martythemaniak
For a while TSLA had an absurd amount of short positions against it, IIRC
something like an order of magnitude more than other companies. Perhaps we are
seeing a short squeeze? I'd love to see data (and interpretation) on how this
has changed.

~~~
klhiouyert98
You can't fight meme magic. Old skool investors don't understand this yet.
They see Elon smoking pot and they short. They see him dancing, they short
again. They see his bumbling presentation skills and smashed CyberTruck
windows, have a laugh and put one more billion against him. And then they open
his twitter and you can imagine what they do when they see him posting
absolute units of a sheep...

[https://fortune.com/2020/01/10/elon-musk-tesla-stock-
short-s...](https://fortune.com/2020/01/10/elon-musk-tesla-stock-short-
sellers/)

~~~
rjkennedy98
I feel this is a very small part of it. There are many legitimate reasons to
short Tesla, including execution problems, car maintenance support, increasing
competition, their poor self-driving software. And it could go on and on.
Tesla, lets face it, is a cult stock. If you believe in the valuation, that's
fine, but there have been plenty of bubbles over the years and especially
recently (bitcoin and weedstocks come to mind), and Tesla would not be the
first item driven to loft valuations based on unrealistic expectations.

~~~
jsight
> There are many legitimate reasons to short Tesla, including execution
> problems, car maintenance support, increasing competition, their poor self-
> driving software.

The problem is that those issues are exaggerated for Tesla and understated for
other makes. This leads to weird volatility with Tesla, IMO, and I think this
latest exaggerated surge to a high valuation is a part of that.

Execution problems? You mean like the delayed VW ID.3? These problems happen
all the time. Reliability issues... hmm Ford had major transmission problems
on the Focus, Honda had transmission problems on the Accord a few years back
and Nissan has struggled with CVT issues for years. But these don't make the
press all that much, because they are boring.

But Cybertrucks and an occasional battery fire? Those are front page news, and
each creates wild exaggerated swings.

Overall the extra attention helps Tesla, of course.

~~~
rjkennedy98
> The problem is that those issues are exaggerated for Tesla and understated
> for other makes

Execution problems doesn't mean bad cars, it means not delivering on margins,
deliveries, ect. No one is saying Telsa is not a good company. They are saying
that its not worth more than GM and Ford combined. I remember when I was
investing in weedstocks when Canopy (who made no money) passed in valuation
one of the largest banks in Canada who had a net income of like $11 billion.
This feels the same way to me. Telsa's market cap is close to $100 billion.

Tesla delivered ~1 million cars. It sells a very specialty product (luxury
cars) to people who have the money and ability purchase and maintain such a
car. Its a very niche product. GM on the other hand sold over 3 million cars
in just China, and it has BETTER self driving tech than Telsa. Aside from
that, there are a lot of people for whom a Telsa is just offlimits (such as
people like myself who live in urban apartments), or people who don't have the
money (such as most of the America and the world). Its not an $1k iPhone its a
40k luxury vehicle.

------
auiya
In the US, what sells the most (sadly) are pickup trucks and SUVs. The numbers
aren't even close. The big automakers here know this, and have tailored their
product lines accordingly. Ford is basically kept afloat singularly by
F-series pickup sales, and have cancelled many sedans entirely. They have an
entire range of different sized trucks and SUVs for every market segment. Same
with Chevrolet. Now pan over to Tesla. Tesla has one single SUV offering, and
sales of that SUV are dismal. They just teased a pickup truck release with
their 'cybertruck' product, but the design was purposely off-putting, and it
only served to make a mockery of the market segment. So with one SUV that
doesn't sell, and a parody of what is currently the highest selling platform
in the US, I'm not sure why anyone speculates Tesla is in a place of upward
trajectory. I don't buy the argument that other car companies can't/won't
pivot to counter either. Porsche reverse engineered one of their Model S
vehicles, admitted it was quite well-constructed, and then countered with the
Taycan (by all reviews a better car) a mere 3-4 years later. I'm glad a
company like Tesla exists to force the market to the EV concept, but most
people will buy an EV when they know it's supported by a long established and
trusted automaker like Toyota, Ford, Chevy, or Honda. Tesla then exists as a
proof-of-concept model for the bigger players to follow, not as a
displacement.

It should also be noted, many motor companies are also investing quite a bit
of money into alternative fuels like synthetic petrol and hydrogen, and don't
want to rely on an energy source which is primarily derived from conflict
zones. They aren't 100% sold yet that the EV platform is indeed the way
forward.

~~~
cdkee
People have been saying this for years. However, none of the other players
have built a compelling product with widespread appeal or adoption. The
E-Tron? iPace? Taycan? All have been more or less dead on arrival from an
adoption and sales standpoint.

Honda announced recently that they will be focusing on hybrid technology, not
full electric. Toyota is backing their Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology. GM has
the Bolt, a single full-electric offering. The Model 3 doesn't really have any
meaningful competition at the moment IMO. Tesla has forced the industry to
change and from where I'm standing no competing product has managed to
holistically match the value proposition Tesla brings.

~~~
auiya
"As it turns out, through October 2019, Audi has sold about 17,500 e-Trons
globally, compared to about 21,600 for the Tesla."[1]

"With clients able to register their interest, Porsche has collected almost as
many pre-orders as they plan to produce electric vehicles. The Handelsblatt
quotes Porsches HR Director Andreas Haffner on the status of registrations to
order the manufacturer’s first electric model. Says Haffner: 'There are 30,000
orders for the Taycan.'"[2]

Right, clearly all DOA. The model 3 has no competition because the major auto
manufacturers are moving away from the sedan platform entirely to SUVs and
trucks. It fills a small market niche, but one that's quickly slowing as a
percentage of total vehicle sales.

> However, none of the other players have built a compelling product with
> widespread appeal or adoption

Neither has Tesla if we're honest.

[1]
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2019/11/29/audi-w...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2019/11/29/audi-
works-to-recover-from-shaky-ev-launch/#3289203b46b0)

[2] [https://www.electrive.com/2019/07/29/porsche-reveals-
number-...](https://www.electrive.com/2019/07/29/porsche-reveals-number-of-
pre-orders-for-taycan-ev/)

------
dangus
Technology sharing is very important to the modern car industry. Cars are
incredibly complicated and if you follow news in the industry, in many cases
brands will make technology sharing agreements so that they aren’t duplicating
efforts.

That’s where Tesla is well-positioned for the future compared to Ford and GM.
They have a whole platform and a battery manufacturing facility where other
car brands may become Tesla customers in the future. Disregarding things like
build quality or fit and finish, my understanding is that Tesla’s battery
platform and powertrain is the industry leader.

If investors think that gas cars will essentially be irrelevant 20 years, I
could see why Tesla is so valuable.

~~~
rjkennedy98
The irony is that its actually not that well positioned in autonomous driving,
which could be the only thing that could really driving the incredibly
valuations it has now. GM, for instance, by most reports is significantly
ahead of Telsa.

------
beamatronic
The horror stories about 3 month wait for parts and the videos of water
intruding into new vehicles, are keeping me away.

~~~
taf2
so i have an x and when it rains we do sometimes get some water into the back
seat when raising the trunk... but to keep this in perspective... the car is
like an iphone compared to your flip phone. 2007 was a long time ago so maybe
people forget just how impactful that phone was when people first tried it
out. That is the exact same experience I have had when first owning and S and
now an X. A minor issue like water when raising the trunk on an exceptionally
rainy day is just that minor when you compare it to the amazing feeling you
get when the over the air update alert hits your phone and you start to wonder
whether you'll get the latest update to detect stop signs. Or as I recall in
2014 - an audio up/down control near the passenger seat. Imagine if you were
annoyed at the UI in your current car. With all of it's physical buttons that
is it. You have no luck unless you buy a different car. In a Tesla if the UI
is an issue they'll push an update and you'll have a new car without buying
one. Let alone the buying experience of a Tesla vs anything else. Go online
swipe your credit card... wait sometime and show up at a Tesla store and drive
away with your car or they deliver it to your house. No haggling, no sleazy
car salesman just a new car that gives you that feeling of an iphone in 2007
vs the old flip phone.... I am sure i sound like a fan boy... and I know my
wife wishes i'd stop talking about it but it's pretty freaking worth it and
nice.

~~~
whatshisface
I'll weigh in on the curmudgeon side. The knobs in my car were perfect from
the day I bought it because they were optimized by engineers over decades. If
there was ever a UI issue, it was corrected before I was born. Because the
controls are physical I can operate them by touch and habit while focusing on
the road. Years of driving have resulted in mental circuits that automatically
detect stop signs and manage lane-keeping with zero conscious attention, just
as easy as walking.

No-haggle direct manufacturer purchases are good, though. I can only agree
with that.

~~~
kemitche
> Years of driving have resulted in mental circuits that automatically detect
> stop signs and manage lane-keeping with zero conscious attention, just as
> easy as walking

I thought the same thing when I had an S a few years back. This was just the
adaptive cruise control + lane holding days, and I figured it'd be nice for
sure but not game changing.

I was entirely wrong. Sure, driving without AP on wasn't hard, but turning AP
on made road trips and commuting 1000x more pleasant for me. Driving without
AP may be habitual and ingrained, but it still occupies a certain amount of
mental capacity to hold the line.

Being freed from that wasn't just about getting more time to look at scenery,
either. With fewer brain cycles spent on mechanically maneuvering the car, I
could spend those cycles better monitoring other vehicles for potential
hazards (crazy drivers, etc.)

------
JoshTko
I wonder what NYU prof Scott Galloway thinks of this given his Oct 2019
prediction that Tesla will lose 80% of its value.

~~~
cagenut
he's like a modern social-media-native version of jim cramer

------
jansan
Anyone remember Volkswagen shares at 1000€ in October 2008? This was a
textbook example of a shortsqueeze. One German billionaire saw that the share
value was at a ridiculous high level, so he shorted it. He was correct, but
too early, so he lost all his money and committed suicide.

[https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/10/31/1540962002000/The-
day...](https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/10/31/1540962002000/The-day-
Volkswagen-briefly-conquered-the-world/)

~~~
chasd00
"markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent"

~~~
jansan
That's what I told a friend last summer when he talked about Tesla being the
perfect short opportunity. Tesla stock is an extremely hot iron. You can tell
by the huge daily swings that it is being played in some way, and as an
amateur you are usually the one paying the pros in these scenarios.

------
samsonradu
Just to provide some context, most indexes and large tech companies are at an
all-time-high. It’s not just Tesla ‘doing great’.

~~~
tempsy
Uh Tesla was ___$180_ __six months ago. That 's a 185% gain. Far more than the
S&P. Few large cap companies have gained that much in such a short amount of
time.

Don't rain on the Tesla parade. Or discount the price movement as "in line".

~~~
samsonradu
Sure, but you’re kind of cherry-picking, as it was $300+ in January. Tesla has
always been more volatile than peer tech stocks, having crashed about 40%
before this surge.

~~~
tempsy
Either way it's a story about the short term spike since roughly a month ago.
The price movement is not in line with the broader market or all tech stocks.
It's well above it.

------
SnowingXIV
How close are they to figuring out how to handle holding a battery charge in
colder temperatures? A few owners around here I've spoken with have said they
are experiencing nearly half the mileage this winter season and it's been a
struggle for longer daily commutes. They also need to preheat the battery and
some have resorted to using another vehicle.

Been on the fence for a while and since we operate with one car that would
troublesome.

~~~
ilikehurdles
This is a big reason I avoided a Tesla this time around. If you live in
Colorado and ski, you'll not only often be parking your car in extremely cold
temperatures overnight, but also know that blockages on I-70 during sub-
freezing temperatures are relatively common, and those blockages can add
anywhere from half an hour to 6 hours to a commute. There's already a high
enough risk that the battery range will be reduced in that weather, that my
destination won't have a fast-charger, and that I won't be able to fully
charge the vehicle overnight; but, the risk of me being unable to start the
car on the highway in that weather were too much for it to be a useful option.

To be fair, Tesla is much more of a viable to me than any other EV, but as
someone who works from home and only uses their car for excursions rather than
daily commuting, it's not for me.

------
rhacker
While this is great for a variety of reasons... I'm lamenting on the cybrtrck.
Initially after the release I was kinda excited. Lately I have been wishing it
just looked like a regular truck and did things that regular trucks can do -
especially since I'm big on RVs: Cab over (fuck out of luck there). Fifth
wheel? (Bed is probably not standard and probably no one will have the
knowledge of putting in the rails or a puck system.

In other words we're looking at best travel trailers. I'm also sceptical
they're going to the enough standard tow package equipment. I just have this
feeling that no one that works at Tesla owns trucks and tows things. (And when
I say no one, I just feel like if 10% of the staff owns a dually that's not
enough).

If they don't put up a standard compete like Rivian, they're going to lose
HUGE in this category.

One last secondary gripe here - they keep saying it has more utility than a
regular truck but here I am pointing out all the things it can't do that a
typical truck can. Beyond that, can you even ATTACH a snow plow?

~~~
cagenut
thats not how you ship a v1

what is it about cars that make all software engineers turn into junior
product managers.

~~~
rhacker
It would seem that all the other EV pickup startups in this space are thinking
about what regular trucks do first.

------
gdubs
A lot comes down to whether the market views Tesla as a car company, or a
technology company. The pessimistic view is that they’re a car company and the
valuation makes no sense compared to GM, Toyota, or VW. The optimistic view is
that they’re a technology company that — if they manage to stay alive — will
produce value from both their core offering and the edges of their business,
much the way Amazon has with AWS, or Apple is doing in Services.

Personally, I own a nominal number of shares and root for their success. But
at the end of the day, it’s a Random Walk on Wall Street and predictions (good
or bad) are largely speculation.

------
ibic
Believe people are betting on its future. (Shanghai Mega-Factory seems doing
pretty smoothly is probably one of the factor as well)

------
mrnobody_67
Plainsite recently published a 100-page report summarizing all the key
findings from the tesla short or $TESLAQ community... some of the allegations
around corporate governance, self-dealing, and outright lies are pretty
damning if true:

[https://www.plainsite.org/realitycheck/tesla.html](https://www.plainsite.org/realitycheck/tesla.html)

Not endorsing their findings, merely saying it's an interesting read to
understand the other side. Its allegations are well referenced with sources.

------
tempsy
Does anyone else feel like HN is somewhat ironically a highly risk adverse
community? (I say ironically because you'd think a community of those working
in new tech would be more risk seeking than your average person)

Seems like every time an individual stock is brought up there's 10 people
claiming you're "gambling" with a disproportional amount of risk if you do
anything but buy the index for every person that dares buy a company stock.

------
birdyrooster
The comments here seem to be lacking one perspective: Global climate change is
going to force governments to ban the sale of internal combustion engines for
consumer use. The markets are pricing in the expected regulations, which is
why Tesla is getting such a premium since they are the most mature in the
coming regulatory environment.

------
NicoJuicy
I don't think anyone has a sustainable business model right now for the root
cause ( climate change).

Although Tesla seems to be the best option right now. I think the future will
be a combination of electric bikes and greatly improved public transportation
+ reduced cost price.

An electric car is still too resource heavy too make.

I know a lot of people here who won't agree with me. But I'm pretty sure that
they don't live in the Netherlands or Belgium ( where a lot of people cycle)
or that this alternative is not viable there ( too cold or too wide).

I also didn't say it was a perfect solution for all ( ev. The edge cases I
gave here) and that people will easily adjust when they don't have the habit
of cycling ( eg. No adjusted roads)

------
tempsy
Really incredible. I remember when it was trading at $18.

------
sajithdilshan
My gut feeling is that this is a short spike because of all the people who
wants to take a bite at rising stock price. At some point people will realize
that this is a ridiculous amount of money for a share of a company which is
yet to prove that the company is massively profitable. When the price
collapse, it will be a steep down curve.

~~~
ASalazarMX
My take as well. At the end of 2019 the financial spam changed from "TESLA IS
SINKING! SELL!" to "TESLA IS AWESOME! BUY!".

------
rich_sasha
I think this highlights the value of the brand, the tangible counterpart of
“hype”. What the sceptics call starry-eyed fundamentalism is a valuable
revenue stream, for whatever reason. Tesla successfully created a story of
being the only cool kid in a room full of dinosaurs.

All other points good too, but didn’t see this mentioned.

------
dwags
I sold my car and now drive one of those Zebra mopeds in SD. Next time I buy a
car, it will be electric.

------
zcw100
Enron looked great, right before it didn't. House prices will only continue to
rise. All it takes is one drop of blood.

Maybe that will be Tesla's fate, maybe it won't but it's naive to think that
can't happen.

------
josephdviviano
[https://www.economist.com/media/pdf/this-time-is-
different-r...](https://www.economist.com/media/pdf/this-time-is-different-
reinhart-e.pdf)

------
csomar
Here is another possibility:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/CCMP:IND](https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/CCMP:IND)

The whole market was up 25-30% (Nasdaq). Now, as a trader, you know that there
are companies that follow the market return, or accentuate it (from both
directions).

TSLA being a tech company meant that you got better returns (50%) which are
not too far from the Nasdaq returns. Apple returns were even crazier for a
company its size: +100%!

tl;dr: We are in a bull-market.

------
skybrian
Can't read the article but I'm thinking maybe they don't need to worry about
convertible bonds anymore?

------
sabujp
opening up business in china does a funny thing to a stock, wall street loves
china

~~~
hogFeast
Er no. It was the fact that the govt gave the Tusk ~$2bn of free money (and
when the money was running out i.e. it really changed the narrative around the
stock).

------
olivermarks
California law as of Jan 1 requires all new houses to have solar panels, EV
charging port, no natural gas allowed. This 100% electric future being forced
is attractive to Wall Street as it forces change, despite adding ~300k to the
house price. Wall Street bares no relation to the street where cars are
powered by gasoline or diesel with few exceptions. It takes 75 minutes to
charge a Tesla EV, much longer in cold climates (I have a Tesla owning
acquaintance in Denver who confirms this). We are n a giant stock market
bubble. Tesla is a good example if this aspirational earnings exuberance IMO

~~~
tachyonbeam
There is no way this adds 300K to the price of a house, and it does not take
75 minutes to charge a Tesla, more like 15-30 minutes at a supercharger
depending on your state of charge. Stop the FUD.

~~~
olivermarks
Supercharger technology

Tesla logo at Supercharger station Tesla supercharging stations charge with up
to 150 kW of power distributed between two cars with a maximum of 150[13][14]
kW per car, depending on version.[15][6][16] They take about 20 minutes to
charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on the
original 85 kWh Model S. The charging stations provide high-power direct-
current (DC) charging power directly to the battery, bypassing the internal
charging power supply.[1] The next version of Supercharging was expected to
charge with more than 350 kW.[17][18]

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger)

~~~
tachyonbeam
1\. You will never be at 0% when you hit the supercharger.

2\. You don't necessarily need to charge up to 100%

3\. Supercharger V3 can reach 250KW, and the Tesla Model 3 supports this. The
next gen Model S will as well.

------
ecwilson
Current valuations, Tesla and Apple among the most prominent, are so far
disconnected from reality that it echoes the dot com bubble. But this time,
the cause is not dot com mania -- but buybacks, driven by reckless financial
policy.

[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENmRB6aVAAEziTn?format=jpg&name=...](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENmRB6aVAAEziTn?format=jpg&name=900x900)

------
nif2ee
As is the case with Apple, Tesla is a cult and obviously Musk learned from
Steve Jobs that cults beat facts, cults create empires and make bad as equal
as good and sane people can do nothing about it. That's how the great empires
and religions were built in the old days and that's how "great" companies are
being built today.

~~~
rcMgD2BwE72F
Or: it's just the only company that makes a compelling product line for the
biggest global market (energy and auto) while the rest of the industry keep
selling fossil fuel and internal combustion engines, both of which are
destroying our habitat an ever faster pace.

The cult is believing we can keep marketing ICE cars and pumping CO2 in the
atmosphere and still expect to make money.
[https://i.redd.it/xobkagxotot01.jpg](https://i.redd.it/xobkagxotot01.jpg)

The market cap of TSLA remains tiny compared to trillions $ of stranded assets
of the oil and ICE industry.

