
China sets up Hong Kong crisis center in mainland - JumpCrisscross
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-shenzhen-exclusive/exclusive-china-sets-up-hong-kong-crisis-center-in-mainland-considers-replacing-chief-liaison-idUSKBN1Y000P
======
CharlesColeman
There have been a lot of major stories about China recently:

Landslide pro-democracy victory in HK district council elections:

Hong Kong Election Landslide Signals More Frictions With Beijing:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/world/asia/hong-kong-
elec...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/world/asia/hong-kong-election-
protests.html)

Recently-leaked PRC government documents confirm details of the Xinjiang
camps:

China Didn’t Want Us to Know. Now Its Own Files Are Doing the Talking:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/24/opinion/china-xinjiang-
fi...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/24/opinion/china-xinjiang-files.html)

‘Absolutely No Mercy’: Leaked Files Expose How China Organized Mass Detentions
of Muslims:
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/ch...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-
xinjiang-documents.html)

Leaked China Files Show Internment Camps Are Ruled by Secrecy and Spying:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/24/world/asia/leak-chinas-
in...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/24/world/asia/leak-chinas-internment-
camps.html)

Chinese intelligence agent defects to Australia:

Would-Be Chinese Defector Details Covert Campaigns in Hong Kong and Taiwan:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/world/asia/defector-
spy-t...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/world/asia/defector-spy-taiwan-
hong-kong.html)

Defecting Chinese spy offers information trove to Australian government:
[https://www.smh.com.au/national/defecting-chinese-spy-
offers...](https://www.smh.com.au/national/defecting-chinese-spy-offers-
information-trove-to-australian-government-20191122-p53d1l.html)

~~~
seph-reed
Don't forget the bits about a sizable chunk of western media going to lengths
to fit their mould, and the sheer amount of world companies which China has
powerful portions of stock in.

It starts to paint a picture of a very quiet and tactful fascist world
conquering through totally legal business moves.

Also, just to get the idea out there, I'm totally down for a lesser standard
of living for the sake of not putting any more gas in their tanks.

[https://github.com/caffeine-
overload/bandinchina](https://github.com/caffeine-overload/bandinchina)

------
beatle_sauce
The pro-Beijing camp expected the support of the "silent majority" in the
election, which did not exist, but was reported by the Liason Office.

The problem: "The people in charge of manipulating Hong Kong public opinion
for the CCP [the Liason Office] are also the people charged with reporting on
their own success." Source: [https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/25/hong-kong-
election-beij...](https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/25/hong-kong-election-
beijing-media-delusions-victory/)

~~~
baybal2
Bad assumptions. "Silent majorities" do not vote in their majority.

Minorities are almost always significantly bigger voters proportionally — a
greatly counterintuitive point about democratic states.

------
woodandsteel
I feel sorry for the Chinese people. That's because Xi has set the government
and the country on a path that is almost guaranteed to turn out bad.

Let me explain why I say that. To start, China faces many serious problems
today, like poor demographic trends, massive bad debts, the trade war with the
US, and the Honk Kong and Uighur crises. In order to deal with these problems,
the government needs to make good decisions, and in order to do that it needs
good understanding of the realities involved.

Now the problem with Xi's authoritarianism is that it cuts off the sort of
communication needed to find out what is going on. That includes the free
expression of ordinary people, university experts, and people in the lower
levels of government. All of them are constrained to be silent or say what the
government wants to hear, instead of the truth of what is actually happening.
As a result the higher levels of government get more and more out of touch
with reality and make poorer and poorer decisions.

I am guessing this will lead to some sort of collapse in the next two or three
decades. For those who say no, it is not possible, just take a look at the
history of China over the last century. There have been many crises and wild
changes in direction, and there is no reason at all to believe that Xi has
finally gotten the country on a permanently stable path.

Something else. For years in the comments here at HN, when there was a
negative article about China, many China defenders would say it was false, and
defend China's policies and general way of government. But in the last few
months, they have pretty much given doing this, and instead their main tactic
is to try to divert the conversation through false equivalency claims. It
seems they have realized China as it actually is can't be defended to people
who are not already strong supporters.

~~~
powerapple
You don't have to, Chinese people are generally happy :)

~~~
woodandsteel
The Chinese people are happy in some ways, unhappy in others, and it varies
from person to person. But they are forbidden by the government from
expressing their unhappiness, at least many types of unhappiness. And I take
it you think that is a good thing.

------
kp98
Seems all is going to plan for Beijing, slowly encroaching on more human
rights of the people of Hong Kong. I read an ominous quote from Global Times
that said, when talking about the US Hong Kong bill:

"If we take this US bill seriously and shrink from tackling riots, Hong Kong
will suffer from an accelerated collapse of the rule of law and be erased from
the modern world. [...] If riots continue, Hong Kong is doomed." [1]

I suppose replacing the chain of command in terms of Hong Kong will help
circumvent the CCP and secure more 'peace and prosperity' for China.

[1]:
[http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1170691.shtml](http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1170691.shtml)

~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
It's pathetic how the mainstream media is reporting on this. Almost dead
silence. Beijing has effectively removed our free speech. Businesses have a
feduciary obligation to increase shareholder value, and saying anything bad
about Beijing can have huge economic consequences.

~~~
natechols
I've had no problem finding articles about this in mainstream publications,
including the NY Times. Maybe it's only TV news that is silent?

~~~
CharlesColeman
It's definitely being reported on, it's just that the impeachment stuff has a
much higher volume and is drowning a lot of it out.

------
known
How the West got China wrong; It bet that China would head towards democracy
and the market economy. The gamble has failed

[http://archive.vn/5VQR9](http://archive.vn/5VQR9)

~~~
deepVoid
The gamble has not failed. It just takes longer. Democracy and market economy
are definitely gaining on the Chinese people. More people are studying aboard
and wanting China to be more like the West, although some bureaucrats are
stubborn and holding China back. Take Hong Kong as an example, nobody would
image such pro-democracy would happen at such a massive scale. Hong Kong
people have done it. The Hong Kong people demand democracy more than ever. I
am very very proud of them.

~~~
analyst74
I'm curious why parent is down-voted, is this line of thinking completely out
of wack? I thought China is definitely going to become more democratic,
following similar path as Japan and Korea.

~~~
president
In what way is China becoming more democratic? Last time I heard, China
doesn't have free elections and those that spoke against the government got
jailed, beaten, or disappeared.

~~~
retrac
China has indeed gone through a number of phases of relative (relative being
the key word) openness. Similar to the Krushchev thaw, subsequent re-
tightening, and then re-loosening in the late Soviet era.

After the Mao era, things became increasingly unrestricted until the '89
crackdown. A second relative period of relatively lax censorship came in the
new century. It has been tightening again since Xi came to power, but arguably
still less strict and totalitarian than under Mao.

