
Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?  - wumi
http://davidadewumi.com/2008/07/06/why-are-black-nerds-so-unpopular/
======
riahi
I don't think this observation--kids from immigrant parents tend to focus more
on education--is limited to any particular race, but is a byproduct of the
immigrants themselves. In order to leave their home countries, they had to
have the personality characteristics which granted them escape. When coming
from areas that are not easy to emigrate from, this is commonly through
scholastic achievement. It certainly was the case with my father leaving Iran,
and seems to be the case with the author of this piece. As such, the best
students of a nation--whether they are from Nigeria, Iran, or China--come to
America and instill the same values in their children, the values that got
them to this country. Interestingly enough, these values seem almost
universal. I've gotten the "don't chase women, let them chase you" speech so
many times I can recite it, yet the more I hear it from children of other
immigrants, the more I regard it as truth than just my father's
pontifications.

An interesting question would be to look at the children a few generations
removed, to see if they continue the emphasis on education, or if they are
swamped by American culture.

~~~
Alex3917
"kids from immigrant parents tend to focus more on education"

Or, more accurately, kids from voluntary immigrant parents tend to focus more
on education. C.f. Voluntary and Involuntary Minorities: A Cultural-Ecological
Theory of School Performance with Some Implications for Education. Ogbu
himself is actually a Nigerian.

~~~
hugh
Are there many people living today whose parents were involuntary immigrants?

~~~
baha_man
'The most popular destination for asylum seekers of all nationalities in 2007
was the US, with an estimated 49,200 new asylum claims'

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7301985.stm>

~~~
byrneseyeview
Jewish immigrants from the former USSR are extremely successful in the US,
even though they weren't quite voluntary immigrants.

~~~
dangoldin
My family came over from the USSR in the late 80s and although I was too young
to remember the details, my parents told me that the USSR did not make it easy
to leave: they had to go through a whole slew of questions that tried to show
that they were perfectly well off in the USSR and there was no persecution.

Their story makes it seem to me that it would have taken a more than voluntary
effort to leave the USSR, whether you were a Jew or not.

As an aside, before the mass immigration of the Soviet Jewry there was a whole
group of people called the Refuseniks
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusenik>) which were denied the right to
immigrate but were not allowed to go back to their jobs.

There was a very good documentary made about them recently
(<http://www.refusenikmovie.com/>) that I recommend watching if you are
interested in this topic.

------
maxklein
Both Paul Graham and Wumi are off the mark.

You see, unpopular people are people who have not learned to play the game
successfully. There are two competitions going on in schools:

1\. Be as good as you can be socially 2\. Be as good as you can be regarding
intellectual development

Every student will want to have the maximum of both those things, but the
problem is that most people tend to choose one path and then work to excel at
it. The most popular kids are as likely to be just as successful as the most
intelligent nerds. It takes a bit of skill from the other branch to land at
the top of either branch, and so those at the top will usually be successful
people.

The problem is that these two branches seem to be exclusive. To be
intellectually at the top, you have to forgo a lot of the social activities
that allow you develop the necessary skills to get to the top of social
ladder. And to be socially at the top, you lack the time to study, so you fall
behind intellectually.

This is not about school in general - it's about life. To develop a skill, you
need to focus on the skill, and your social life drops correspondingly.

But there is this middle ground. The people who know how to strike that
balance between the two paths. The ones who are aware of the social
hierarchies, and who make sure they do not drop in value socially. The popular
kids who spend enough time studying, that their scores still remain good
enough for them to do what they want to do.

There are a LOT of people who belong to that middle ground. But you know what,
they don't write articles on the internet, because they have nothing to
complain about! They liked high school and ended up doing well there. A lot of
them are doing way better than the nerds who complain about how unpopular they
were.

High school was your first taste of business. In business you need to develop
your product, but you also need to make your sales. You cannot concentrate on
one exclusively and leave the other away. Both require equal time and are
equally important.

That's what these nerds don't recognize. They think there is some conspiracy
against them - no, you just did not understand the system well enough to play
it properly. If you went back in time now, would you not be able to do it
better?

~~~
wumi
I'm not sure where my post would lead you to suggest that there is no middle
ground. In fact I mention that (partially) by virtue of being a good athlete,
I happened to garner a fair amount of popularity. In fact, from your comments
I'm not sure if you read what I wrote at all.

Really, if you've been to public high school in America (or, as I noted,
several other countries), popularity is derived mostly from good looks/general
attractiveness, athletic prowess, or popularity by association (whether your
siblings or your best friends).

(edit: for blacks, this could and does include an affinity for hip-hop culture
-- dancing, rapping, beat boxin, etc., and by good looks/attractiveness, per
the article, I am inferring general outward appearance, i.e. clothes, shoes,
fitted caps, etc.)

There's nothing to game about the system, if you're attractive, a great
athlete, or have really popular friends, you in turn, will be popular.

I was at least one of those three things.

If you're not one of those three things, it's highly unlikely that you are (or
were) very popular.

You're really just painting a broad brush when you say 'that's what these
nerds don't recognize ...you just did not understand the system well enough to
play it properly.'

Really? There's not a conspiracy at all -- in black culture, especially
amongst the youth of today, intelligence is most often looked down upon and
something generally avoided, to which much of what I wrote concerned.

I think you're confusing my reflection for complaints. (edit: I realize now
you're just making a broad swipe at all nerd culture, apparently, and not
actually rebutting my writing.)

~~~
maxklein
Does your name not usually have an n in it? And is it not usually a girls
name?

I read your article to the end. This black culture looking down on
intelligence thing is not new or insightful. I've read about that lots of time
on the internet. Black culture does not look down on intelligence. It looks
down on nerdiness.

Let's imagine there is some really cool black guy - let's say the 50 cent of
your high school. He does all the 'in' things and wears the right shoes etc.
He also is consistently the best in the class. NOBODY would look down on him,
rather, he'd be regarded with extreme awe. He'd be monster cool, and still
effortlessly ace all exams.

Looking good is an easy way to be popular, but there are lots of terrible
looking gangster like figures who are quite popular in high schools.

Being popular is about standing out in a manner that makes people want to
follow you. There are many ways to do so, and each of those ways can be
artificially created.

It's no god given thing.

I don't get what you're trying to say in your last sentence, but I never
implied that pg was some superdork.

~~~
jimbokun
"He'd be monster cool, and still effortlessly ace all exams."

Such people do not exist, given the "effortlessly" part. I think there is a
consensus now that "talent" is mostly the end product of a lot of effort.
Because outside observers do not see all of the hard work, only the end
product, they infer that there must be some "talent" thing that explains why
the other person can do things he cannot.

I believe pg made this point, arguing that the reason that nerds do not exert
the effort necessary to become popular is that it would detract from the
effort they can exert towards the things that are really important to them.

~~~
BrandonM
Just for the record, I felt like I effortlessly did very well on most of my
tests in high school. All I did was go to class, stay awake as much as
possible, and do my homework. I never had to study in high school, where I was
valedictorian, and I actually feel like my high school was pretty good. I did
well on standardized tests (35 ACT, 1500 SAT), and felt at least as prepared
as other freshman honors students at the Ohio State University.

Honestly, I'm not trying to brag here, but I do want to provide a counterpoint
to your "consensus". I agree that many talents (musical, visual art, sports,
etc.) require a lot of effort. Perhaps in the sense of general mental
exercise, there is effort involved in being intelligent: I read a lot in high
school, and I always find myself playing weird numbers games in my head (like
adding up the digits of long numbers to see if it's divisible by 3 or 9). But
as far as putting in a lot of effort to "ace all exams", I never really felt
like I had to do that, and I highly doubt that I'm the only person like this.

------
prime0196
Why are we assuming that all nerds are smart? My high school had several
"dumb" nerds (Napoleon Dynamite-ish). Nerds are people who are socially inept.
Add intelligence to a nerd and all you have is an intelligent nerd, he has not
moved up the social ladder at all. The real question should be "Why are smart
black kids with no social skills unpopular?" but that wouldn’t be much of a
question, would it? They’re unpopular because they have no social skills,
being smart has nothing to do with it. Since the author states that blacks put
so much emphasis on their social status, it makes perfect sense that anyone
not exhibiting socially acceptable behaviors would be deemed unpopular. You
could easily have said:

Why are black kids who wear tight clothes unpopular?

Why are black kids who listen to heavy metal unpopular?

Why are black male virgins unpopular?

If you do unpopular stuff then you will not be popular. Interesting article,
but way off base. Oh, and if you are wondering, I’m BLACK.

~~~
subwindow
As far as I understand it, you're talking about dorks, not nerds.

Nerd: Very Smart, socially inept

Geek: Smart, somewhat socially competent

Dork: Not smart, socially inept

That also explains why most people prefer to be called geeks.

~~~
prime0196
In hindsight you're classifying these individuals as Geeks, Nerds, Dorks, but
to an average high schooler these terms are synonymous unless you actually
belonged to one of these groups and felt the need to create a hierarchy :)

------
bilbo0s
I'm hesitant to ask this question because I think many of you will probably
jump down my throat, but I will anyway.

Are any of you actually Black American? By which I mean a son or daughter of
American Slavery.

I only ask because I would like to hear from one of them, about being a nerd
in the black community. The reason I ask is because I've seen in Newark and LA
for example, where even black athletes are only worried about getting home
after school. I talked to a football standout from Newark and his exact words
were,"I'm not tryin' to meet new faces at school, if I want women, that's what
church is for." What I mean is, when I talk to these kids you get the sense
that, between the police, the teachers, and the gang members, high school for
them is a dangerous place. Many of them have expressed little interest in
popularity, or looking down on others, indeed, they express little interest in
even knowing others. It is dangerous to them. They SEEM to be just trying to
get through the day without crossing the wrong person. Or as the young man I
talked to would say, "Ain't no kids in a ghetto high school."

This contrasts sharply with things I've read in the national press and in
reports like this about being 'cool', and looking down on the smart kids.

\-- EDITED OUT A PART PEOPLE MAY FIND OFFENSIVE --

I'd imagine the average nerdy guy from the black underclass is far more
concerned with mistaken identity on his way home, than he is with being
accosted because he is smart.

But again, I'd like to know if I'm way off here.

~~~
cambellg
Multi-generational African American "Nerd" here. I'd like to point out that
you are conflating "African American" and "poor/ghetto". To the OP, I'd say
that your opinions are based on your experiences, and everyone's are
different. As mentioned further along in this thread, you are equating "Nerd"
w/ intelligent.

~~~
bilbo0s
Actually, it's interesting that you say that, because the part I edited out
clarified that issue. That is, it explained my belief that there are probably,
AT LEAST, two black communities. Let's call them the black under class and the
black upper class.

The kids from the underclass don't worry about being a 'nerd' or popular or
whatever. As I said, I think they have far more pressing concerns. They worry
about not setting off some gang banger by stepping on his shoe. Or having said
gang banger mistake them for cross town rivals. Or having a police officer
mistake their wallets for guns. You get the idea.

Whereas kids from the black upper class are a little different, and this is
the part where I have to be careful. I think kids in the black upper class
think that being 'cool' is being from the black under class. So they go out
and do their best imitation of kids from the black underclass. Only they don't
know much about the black underclass, so it comes off cartoonish. Only
slightly less cartoonish than when white kids do it.

Since our 'interface' to black America is really the black upper class, we get
the impression that acting cool is more important than being smart. That
doesn't necessarily mean that kids in the black under class believe that. My
suspicion is that we don't really know what those kids believe, and we'd be
surprised to find just how pragmatic their beliefs are. I think it was Dr. Dre
who said he didn't know any rappers who got rich selling music to the 'black
under class'. I'm paraphrasing there, but again, you get his point.

~~~
cambellg
I'd describe my upbringing as solidly "Black Middle Class", having roots and
connections in both extremes.

As I mentioned, this is all a very subjective discussion, and generalities are
generally wrong. Having said that, the black communities have all the usual
cliques: nerd, jock, preppy, musician, etc. and schools which value some
cliques over others.

Speaking of an "average" school is as misleading as speaking of an "average"
parent (insert the usual joke about half a bra and half a jock strap).

p.s. I think Dr Dre was pointing out that the "poor & urban" niche is not a
particularly lucrative one, thus the need to appeal to the mainstream.

------
visitor4rmindia
What I (personally) find very interesting in American schools is the
"unpopular"=="picked-on" relation.

I understand pg's argument that you have to work at being popular. In my
(Indian) school, I was a typical nerd - I was poor, often wore uniforms from
my previous years, I loved to read, and couldn't bother to spend the time
socializing. There were a few others like me and a few widely popular,
athletic, rich kids.

But we _never_ got picked on for "being nerds"! Never! If anything, we got
respect for being good at our work. It didn't make us popular but we had good
friends (hell I had my share of girls in high school) and overall an enjoyable
experience.

Sure there were cases of bullying, but they were one-off. It was _not_
nerd==target and even the bullying was handled pretty soon, either by us (as a
group) or the teachers.

I really would like to know where this animosity towards nerds comes from. I
think that's the interesting (and painful) part of American culture that needs
probing. It's definitely _not_ universal. Any ideas?

~~~
BrandonM
I think it's a popular cliché in the media, mainly. I never saw it,
personally, but beyond 4th grade my class size was less than 100, so my
experience isn't exactly representative. In my school, the only ones who
really got picked on were those with disabilities (unfortunately, but it was
mostly in "good fun", like getting them to say funny stuff, etc., not ever
anything violent).

I'm not trying to over-generalize my experience, but I think that in this day
and age, nerds are not picked on nearly as much as you might be led to believe
by popular media. Perhaps 20 or even 10 years ago that was true, and now those
individuals are the same ones who are writing the same old nerd clichés into
modern-day settings.

------
Tichy
Is it really just wearing the right clothes that makes you popular? Maybe the
"nerds" are just fooling themselves, making excuses for their social
ineptness?

What exactly defines nerd anyway? Not being able to talk straight to people?
Doing weird things? But what is weird? Maybe building your own radio with
nobody to talk to was weird, but what if you used your electronics skills to
build fancy effects for your electric guitar and proceeded to rock the school?

Maybe it is rather the other way round: being unpopular causes nerdiness (in
some lucky cases). I guess you can be smart and popular at the same time, but
if you are not popular, it really frees a lot of time for thinking. And if you
are lucky, you'll start thinking about something that comes in useful later
on.

~~~
tokipin
if you look at a lot of the popular students, you'll find they are often of
certain MBTI types (ESFP/ESTP). there's also a particular type (ENFJ) that is
insanely charismatic (Oprah Winfrey is an example,) and they are also very
popular in different ways

i know that it's pretty much impossible for me to pull that sort of charisma
from myself in any quantity, while to them it comes naturally, likely often
just through impulse

in other words, no. you probably won't become more popular by trying. wearing
the right clothes, and doing all sorts of things that the popular kids do will
only make you look like a poser. the popular kids don't do those things to be
popular, that's just what you see on the surface. and if you can't see beyond
the surface, then you probably don't get it

~~~
jimbokun
"in other words, no. you probably won't become more popular by trying. wearing
the right clothes, and doing all sorts of things that the popular kids do will
only make you look like a poser. the popular kids don't do those things to be
popular, that's just what you see on the surface."

Can't find it right now, but I read a Zen of Cool test where a man is brought
into a room full of clothes, and asked which outfit is coolest.

The correct answer: "Whatever I put on."

------
gojomo
I saw Banjamin Nugent, author of "American Nerd: The Story of My People", on a
talk show a few weeks ago. He mentioned that nerdiness can be a kind of
'hyperwhiteness', a refusal to adopt the black-influenced lingo and styles of
cool kids.

He talks about that theory -- credited to a UC Santa Barbara linguist, Mary
Bucholtz -- a bit in this recent interview with the LA Times:

[http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-ca-
nerd15-2008jun15...](http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-ca-
nerd15-2008jun15,0,4078333,full.story)

------
andres
I have noticed the same phenomenon in the black and hispanic community as
wumi. I think PG's explanation is still valid though. Kids choose popularity
over intelligence because becoming successful by being smart seems to be more
difficult than becoming successful by being popular. There have not been many
visible examples of blacks and hispanics who became successful by being smart
so when a child has to choose between intelligence and popularity they are
more likely to choose popularity.

I'm going to hypothesize that there is a correlation between unpopularity of
nerds and the probability of success through intelligence. The less likely it
is that people will become successful by being smart the more likely people
will try to be successful by being popular. In the competition to become
popular the first ones to lose are the ones who don't care about being
popular: nerds.

There are a lot more examples of smart and successful blacks and hispanics now
than there were a generation ago. I bet that black nerds will become more
popular soon. Of course, they'll still be unpopular because they're nerds.

~~~
tarkin2
"Kids choose popularity over intelligence because becoming successful by being
smart seems to be more difficult than becoming successful by being popular. "

I quite agree. More generally, it's about increasing one's social ranking in
relation to others. And culture (not limited to ethnic) plays a huge part in
that.

Someone posted earlier that a kid would be popular if he were simply better
than others at something. But this disregards culture, not just black, either.
(I noticed the same thing in the schools I went to - British and all white).

For instance, _certain_ strands of hip-hop seem to laud brash and expensive
jewelery. If a kid grows up with this influence, he will internalise this and
laud anyone he sees who exhibits similar property. He would not think to do
the same with anyone who announces he has read a certain book because he has
not grown up to laud this achievement, because of his exposure to this micro-
culture.

Excellent article by the way!

------
figurefaster
I think this discussion is about 2 or 3 decades out of date.

Currently the issue isn't whether you are black, white, hispanic, or whatever.
It's whether you are male or female. Women have taken over in the high schools
and colleges. University enrollment is almost 2/3rds female nationwide and the
gap is growing.....

Our problem right now isn't race, it's gender. Boys are dropping out in droves
and at very early ages.

If you go into any government office right now you will see most of the
employees will be women. I routinely go into offices now where there will be
20 or 30 women working and zero men. The men serve as janitors and gardeners.
It's all they are qualified for.

Problem is getting worse and public school administrators are totally blind to
the issue.

~~~
bilbo0s
In terms you may understand, the issue everyone is discussing is why the
number of black, or latina females, is so low relative their population
percentages in the larger society. In particular, the percentage of latinas in
the US college student population is far out of line when considering their
population percentage in the larger society. Even more so when one considers
that 2/3rds of university enrollment is female. That means that, all other
things being equal, US university enrollment should be 10% latina, since
hispanics constitute 15% of our population. The thing is . . . latina
University enrollment is not 10% of overall University enrollment. Meaning,
for some reason, white women are making it to the University level at a far
greater rate. Why is this?

It is a legitimate question to ask, and unfortunately it demands an
examination of those obvious differences like ". . . whether you are black,
white, hispanic, or whatever . . ."

I agree with you, male-female disparities should be discussed as well. Perhaps
you could start another topic?

------
nailer
I think white society views black people are more masculine and physical,
asian people as less so.

You might not like that, but that doesn't affect whether it's true or not.

The result is that black people are expected to excel at the physical. When
they don't (instead favoring the intellectual) they're viewed as not making
use of this gift.

------
rokhayakebe
Wumi, color does not have much to do with popularity.

Popularity depends on what you do better than the average guy and where you do
it.

In America (where Hollywood and Sports are kings) if you play football better
than 98% of your schoolmates you are likely to be popular. The same does not
hold truth for a top programmer within is high school.

In some parts of your continent, yo could be the best soccer player in the
neighborhood, it would not matter. The kid who gets the girl is the kid who
scores As in school, although that kid is not much worried about girls.

~~~
DaniFong
I don't think ethnicity has so little to do with it. In african american
culture it seems, expression of peer disrespect is very powerful.

~~~
arvid
This is particularly true. Conformism is particularly strong in the black
community. In college I had two good black friends. Both who grew up middle
class and smart Both who were ostracized for having white friends. One liked
heavy metal, computers and video games. One I roomed with for a year and he
was harassed about it. We would receive threatening anonymous phone calls at
all hours. If I answered, they would hang up. Eventually the campus police
were able to trace the calls and we found out that it involved several people.

------
1gor
This whole 'nerd' vs 'jock' meme seems to be a fairly typical situation of
'invest' vs 'consume'. A young kid has no other assets apart of time. You can
spend you time being popular NOW, at the expense of studies and other form of
self-enrichment. Sports (with their short fitness time-span) are not really an
investment, unless you are a really talented athlete.

So, by investing your time wisely as a kid you have a good chance of reaping
monetary rewards later -- in term of a good job or even your own business.

An additional bonus for geeks comes in a form of above average growth rate for
knowledge industry. We are living through a kind of 'industrial revolution'
that is changing the shape of traditional industries. The rate of return that
an internet software business can deliver is unmatched. And it can only be run
by a geek, somebody who has spent countless hours bending his mind around
recursion rather than flexing his muscles in front of girls.

And of course, "the girls will come chasing", after you reap economic rent
from your investment.

~~~
huherto
I think sports is a great investment. In teaches you discipline, teamwork and
helps you gain social confidence. Great assets to have in your life.

------
ambition
1\. People are in groups for purposes. Example: A soccer team is a group for
the purpose of playing soccer.

2\. Leadership is contextual to the purpose of a group. A great soccer player
is likely to be a leader on a soccer team, but if she is a bad musician, she
won't be a leader in a band, no matter how charismatic or likeable she is.

3\. Popularity is leadership without authority.

4\. Lacking an external evaluation function, a group implicitly invents one.

This implies that nerds would actually be popular in groups with an evaluation
function for smartness.

The solution is to create critical masses of people brought together in the
context of a need to be smart.

------
blacksoftware
Was so happy to see this BLACK NERD thread but ultimately, I have decided the
article just ain't right.

For example, this is wrong: HE SAID>>>For blacks, it goes above and beyond
just clothes — sneakers (Air Force ones, Jordans, etc.), jewelry, hairstyle,
shape ups, belt buckles, chains, tattoos, diamond studs, do rags, fitted caps
— which makes popularity that much more exclusive and more difficult to
attain.<<<

Are you kidding me? Where where you on the 4th of July when black folk of all
economic backgrounds were out cooking out outside across America, with their
families and enjoying Being a Family my Friend?

And he said: >>If you ever watch a black family (and this holds trues from
Latinos whom I’ve spent time with as well) they spend much more time worrying
about the material and outwardly appearance — driving the right car, clothes,
accessories, hair, etc. Paul alludes several times throughout the essay (and
indeed, in his response,<<

Naw, this ain't right either because my son, aged 16 (and we all black right)
spent a lot of time learning how to drive Boston streets, thru downtown, into
Cambridge, past Somerville and back to our burbs and all the way along we
discussed why all the music he was playing on the car CD sounded to me like
"FALL OUT BOY" or "HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS" and he said -- Daddy now, its all
original! His playlist has several hundred tracks, mostly different bands...

"I know it is but I'm sorry son, I said, but with some exceptions in the
tracks playing, I haven't heard anything original from your 52 track playlist,
that to me did not sound like FALL OUT BOY or HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS."

So, he defended it over and over and said - "No, they don't 'em sound like
them dad." Yeah, right. I listen to over a hundred new tracks every month, all
genres and I do know better!!

I was itching to get some RAP/HIP HOP even if it was that hypnotic track by
Lil Wayne talking about Lolipops.

Personally, I love the FOB, HH stuff but I don't want to give overdue credits
to their copiers! Well, he does and so went the discussion.

That's a small diverse taste of Black Life from BLACK NERDS in America Mr.
davidadewumi! Your piece screamed of a lack of diversity in the African
American American family.

So, you are right and you are so wrong too, which is my ultimate conclusion --
you like a viewpoint that adequately explains how diverse we all are, no
matter what color we are.

------
kaos
I never understood the (North) American "high school popularist fetichism".
Must be a cultural self spreading virus (meme). I wonder how can you get rid
of it? Because i haven't see such behaviour in South America, there the
division is rather blured, the nerds are friends with everbody else, an the
populars aren't so "elitists" and bulliers... that reminds me this clever
bully fight back story: [http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-
scotia/story/2007/09/18/pink-t...](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-
scotia/story/2007/09/18/pink-tshirts-students.html)

------
maxklein
To copy the comment from your post, a large reason that these 'nerds' are
unpopular are they way they defer to authority and suck up to the teacher.
Even till now, I really dislike those people. Those nerds are conformist and
learn exactly what they are told to learn.

The cool kids are the ones that do things their own way. By virtue of that,
they get to lead. If I were in a 2 seater plane that crashes on an island that
has a dinosaur on it, I'd prefer to have a non-confirmist rebel type with me
instead of a shake-in-my-boots where-is-my-teacher type!

That's nerd versus cool. Conformist vs Rebel.

~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
Conformity is orthogonal to nerdiness. I was absolutely a nerd in High School.
I was also a non-conformist. I gave respect based on merit and admiration.
That style of respect (or lack thereof) got me in hot water with more than one
teacher. In fact, most of my nerd friends are some of the most non-conformist
people I know. If you depend on admiration and popularity from your classmates
then you will desperately cling to someone else's perception of "cool." The
nerds go their own ways.

On your dinosaur-island, the nerd probably knows how to find clean water,
build a shelter, start a fire, and set a trap. And how to make a dinosaur-
slaying weapon from the wreckage of your plane.

Sounds like a lot more help than some "non-conformist" who doesn't know
anything outside of the High School popularity game.

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helveticaman
Maybe black kids show a lot more bigotry in all forms, since they are not
restrained in almost any way in that sense (they are answerable for sexism
though). A white person that says he or she hates black people is considered a
bigot, but a black person that says he or she hates white people isn't really
criticized. Same probably goes for hating nerds. Incidentally, in black
society, being a nerd is sometimes termed "acting white."

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anewaccountname
Steve Urkel.

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icky
Actually, Steve Urkel was very popular (IRL).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Urkel#The_Ratings>

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nailer
I assumed the 'Steve Urkel' post was making the point that a black nerd could
be very well loved, and moderated it up based on that.

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bocajuniors
Let's assume you are a male. To be popular you have to be attractive to
females. To be attractive to females you have to be (strong or rich or
ruthless) and (not stupid)=A and B. Definition of nerd:"Person that
unconciously is labelled as stupid by the average person even though they
conciously realize that he is the opposite". Since the judgment(by the
females) mentioned above is unconciously made it follows that nerds are
unpopular.

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bocajuniors
i think humans are experts in spotting "the to stupid to mate with". if you
are clever enough chances are the average person will think you are odd enough
to be labelled stupid.

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bocajuniors
of course i was right on spot. so why the downmod?

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nailer
1\. Your post is clumsily worded. Your argument seems to be 'oddness is
mistaken for stupidity'. But you never really state that explicitly, so I'm
not sure.

2\. If we're 'experts' about spotting people who are too stupid, then why do
we mistake oddness for stupidity?

3\. Your grammar is also poor - e.g., 'to stupid to mate with'.

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bocajuniors
1.if you got it i think i was clear enough. 2.of course because it's the
oddity that is spotted. 3.now you are beeing rude.

~~~
nailer
Problem is that 2 contradicts 1. 3 isn't rude, it's quite common for misspelt
posts, and nothing personal.

