
OpenStreetMap is now navigation-ready - dalek2point3
http://stevecoast.com/2014/05/19/why-openstreetmap-is-now-navigation-ready-for-people-like-you/
======
schabernakk
I tried switching to OSM in an effort to get away from google maps. People
always say 'OSM is consumer ready' but forget that OSM first and foremost is
the dataset. And as far as i am concerned, there is no good maps app on the
iOS appstore that even comes close to google maps. and i think i tried pretty
much all relevant ones. skobbler (which i just found out is part of coast)
seems to be the most polished. but as long as there is no unified search and
you have to enter streetname/adress/city in seperate boxes which excludes
searching for the names of buildings (for example university buildings) for
which the names clearly exist in the database and are shown onthe map, i have
no choice other than switch back to google.

i really hope this changes soon and the UI/apps catch up to the greatness that
is OSM.

edit: i have an iphone and although i live in canada i still use the german
appstore (CC requirement).

that's why i can't comment on the app the original post was about as it's only
available in the US store. it was more of a general remark about my
frustration with the state of apps using the osm dataset. I want to get rid of
google maps and I feel the maps part of osm would be ready for that. I can
tolerate if the commercial store data is not as up2date. But if the general
usuability suffers, i rather opt for gmaps.

~~~
Brakenshire
Have you tried the Scout App (which the article is about)? How does its search
work?

I agree that geocoding has been a problem for OSM, especially for building
numbers, where the data often isn't there. But on the software side there
seems to be progress recently, for instance, here are two open-source
geocoders released in the last few months:

Photon, made by Komoot:
[https://github.com/komoot/photon](https://github.com/komoot/photon), used in
production at
[http://www.komoot.de/suggest/?&hl=en](http://www.komoot.de/suggest/?&hl=en)

Pelias, made by Mapzen:
[http://stateofthemap.us/session/pelias/](http://stateofthemap.us/session/pelias/),
live demo at [http://mapzen.com/pelias/](http://mapzen.com/pelias/)

On building numbers, we need geocoders which can interpolate between sparse
data, and then use that system to highlight where the gaps are. People tend to
add data to OSM when they're confident that it's actually being used, to its
full extent. If there are a hundred buildings along a road, in theory you
don't need to add many of them before you can get a very good idea of where an
address might be.

~~~
sitkack
The map should communicate that it is interpolating the geocoded address by a
circle of probability. Or even show known addresses and then an alpha blended
triangle between them.

As you are saying, assistance from a mapping service need not be binary, just
add some extra information and communicate cleanly the probability of result.

------
thrownaway2424
Android really needs to do something about the permissions model. This app
asks for every permission in the book, but I have no way to tell if the app
will use these permissions for a good reason.

~~~
Brakenshire
I agree. Anyone know whether there's an Android distribution which will give
you more granular control over permissions? Cyanogenmod seems to be a little
better, but I haven't used it myself.

~~~
thrownaway2424
Granularity isn't really the problem. The problem is there's no connection
between something I want to do in the app and the permission it requires. It
might be obvious why this app wants to use my microphone at the instant I
tried to invoke some feature, but at install time it's not apparent at all.

~~~
Brakenshire
Yeah, that is what I intended (as in fine-grained controls).

------
Justsignedup
I'm just gonna point out something: OSM is 10 years old, and after countless
hrs and investing its finally ready for prime time. People who think a new
internet is coming via some disruptive technology need to read this article
and realize that real, long-term, awesome change takes time.

~~~
pekk
It's still not really usable for navigation, has all kinds of accuracy
problems and the worst is that they don't even want help scaling up the data
pipeline, they just want armies of people to click by hand on their weak
editing app.

Labor is expensive, technology is cheap, why insist on such an insanely labor-
intensive data pipeline?

~~~
MaBu
Things are changing in a way. There is Slide from Strava (
[http://labs.strava.com/](http://labs.strava.com/) ). Where you just roughly
click where a path is and it creates nice path from its database of gazillion
GPX tracks. It can be used as an iD editor plugin already. There are scripts
for automatic lake and building creation from satellite images but most
interesting thing seems to be coming from Digital Globe.

In this year state of the map USA ( [http://stateofthemap.us/session/mapping-
the-world-in-raster/](http://stateofthemap.us/session/mapping-the-world-in-
raster/) ) they said that this year SDK is coming where they would
automatically draw buildings and streets from satellite images and you would
get APIs to play with this and insert into OSM. (They already provide images
to OSM through Bing and MapBox). So yes drawing streets and buildings isn't
fun but you need people to know what is a street/cycleway POI and etc.. There
are also projects for figuring out one way streets, max speeds.

------
pedrocr
>we’re pumping all the good stuff that we can back in to OSM. This takes time
due to OSMs consensus on not importing the masses of fixes we generate.

This seems strange. Anyone know the story?

~~~
morganherlocker
OSM prefers user created data. Mass imports often contain errors all over the
place (many going back unnoticed for years). OSM holds a general mindset that
data should only be included if someone is fairly certain the data is correct
(which they would not be on a mass import). "When in doubt, leave it out."
That said, it is more of a guideline than a rule, and there have been mass
imports in the past.

~~~
Brakenshire
One solution might be for them to maintain their own error-checked database,
and then provide a website and map overlay ontop of OSM, pointing out where
the discrepancies are between the two. Then local mappers could go around and
confirm the corrections.

I do think in the long-run OSM will need some error-checking processes if it
aspires to be a definitive database. At the moment, I could quite happily
subtly mess up a motorway junction in Japan, and most of the OSM mapping
software would have no way to knowing not to package it up and send it out.
Vandalism is not an issue now, but as the dataset becomes more popular, I
think some mechanisms will need to go into place to protect its integrity
(particularly for major infrastructure).

~~~
sitkack
You might like the "Propagator Model" of computation, think of it is a
probabilistic graph with CRDT like information augmentation.

[http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/propagators/](http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/propagators/)

[https://github.com/tgk/propaganda](https://github.com/tgk/propaganda)

------
dewey
Not really related to the post but they are talking about making OSM cosumer-
ready and every time I try to use OSM instead of Google Maps I realise it's
just not on the same level yet.

It doesn't have to be on par in terms of error correcting input or location
based search result because they just don't have the data on me like Google
does (locations close to my work place, home,...) but even just the basic task
of searching for my street on OSM [0] will give me a bunch of information the
end-user doesn't really need to know like:

\- tags

\- created by

\- version

\- changeset #

\- location ID

Is there a "cleaner" more consumer friendly web interface for the maps, maybe
with a prettier mapstyle like the ones used in apps like Foursquare (afaik
they are using OSM)?

[0] [http://www.openstreetmap.org/](http://www.openstreetmap.org/)

~~~
dublinben
You're really not meant to be using OSM.org directly as a drop-in replacement
for Google Maps or Bing Maps. It's primarily a back end dataset, and that site
is the front door to contributing to the data set.

You ought to try some deployments like
[https://www.komoot.de/](https://www.komoot.de/) and
[http://open.mapquest.com/](http://open.mapquest.com/)

~~~
coldpie
Thank you. I wish this was more obvious.

------
cheetahtech
I have totally converted to OSM with my startups.

We use it soley for all our mapping needs and it does quite well.

See it in action: [https://rdnation.com/roller-derby-
leagues](https://rdnation.com/roller-derby-leagues)

~~~
maxerickson
Some 'null's show through for one of the teams in New Jersey.

------
riquito
> Feel sorry for how proprietary maps are currently built. When there’s a new
> road built, they all have to scramble to add it.

I'm not into the business of maps, but don't the major players pay
Nations/Cities or third parties that _have_ the latest data about roads to be
promptly updated? (whoever build the roads must have the data, and they'll be
happy to sell it I suppose). (ok, probably every city uses a different format
or has the maps on paper...)

Then we can talk about if this data should be free or not.

~~~
davexunit
Map data is of utility to everyone, of course it should be free.

~~~
xanderstrike
Food is of utility to everyone, of course it should be free.

Transportation is of utility to everyone, of course it should be free.

Shelter is of utility to everyone, of course it should be free.

~~~
dllthomas
Those all have significant marginal cost.

~~~
toomuchtodo
The marginal cost of all of those is dropping. If you can automate mobility
(Self-driving EVs), the production of housing (3D printed homes), and farming
(automated planting, maintenance, harvesting), you can indeed provide it all
for free.

~~~
saraid216
Land is still a scarce resource.

------
whatts
Well, skobbler did all this for iOS and Android. And TeleNav bought skobbler
for $24M in January [1] -- so it's obvious why TeleNav might be able to do
this now.

But will skobbler support stop? Why switch from skobbler to TeleNav's own
products at all? With skobbler, you can get your whole continent's maps for
roughly $7.50.

[1] [http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/30/telenav-buys-
skobbler/](http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/30/telenav-buys-skobbler/)

~~~
whatts
Okay, skobbler has now published an update for its Android app where the
"Scout by TeleNav" brand is introduced.

------
ronaldx
Privacy policy says:

"Personal information does not include anonymous or aggregate information,
which after processing may not be associated with a specific person or
entity."

But I find this a dishonest definition of personal information.

The concept of the app depends on personal journeys being recorded and stored
("indefinitely"), which would very often and very easily identify a person via
their home or workplace. There should be consideration for this in the privacy
policies.

------
pella
List of OSM based Services - Routing :

[http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Service...](http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Services#Routing)

+

[http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routing](http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routing)

------
janus
What's a good navigation app for Android that works outside the US? (Scout
doesn't)

I have a couple of apps in my phone (Navigator and Waze), but the UI is really
cumbersome compared to Google Maps. I use them because OSM maps are better in
small tows in my area than Google Maps, plus you can keep offline maps.

~~~
techsupporter
OsmAnd? I don't really use it for navigation (why not, see below) but I know
that it is a feature and I'm 100% sure of its offline maps capability.

Why not: It doesn't have bus/train/streetcar transit routing, something I
don't expect it to have, though I'm feverishly adding all of the bus stops
around me just in case.

~~~
privong
I use it for a general idea of where to drive. But I don't follow the
directions blindly. It seems to equate all "highways", meaning it gives equal
weight to interstates and state highways, which results in routes which are
direct, but slower than a slightly more indirect route making more use of
interstates.

~~~
Brakenshire
In Settings > Navigation, you can change the routing engine, incidentally,
which might solve that problem. Although the other options require an internet
connection for the initial calculation.

~~~
privong
Thanks. I guess I've shied away from those because I'm often out of cell
service when I need directions :) But I should do some test runs to see how
they compare.

~~~
maxerickson
I think it would benefit from an option for 'Online routing when available'.

------
chatman
How is this such a big news? There is no navigation option in default
openstreetmap.org experience. And there have been several other
navigation/routing websites based on OSM data before. I sense nothing new
here.

------
mauriziopd
For those looking for a good Android app that uses OSM. I use Mapfactor
Navigator and think it is great (I've used it in Italy, Austria, Slovenia,
Crozia). It let's you use it with OSM data or Tom Tom, you can use Google for
address search and use it offline if you need.

I'm not affiliated, just a happy user

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator)

------
twothamendment
Consumer Ready? It is about 8 years behind in my neighborhood. My street
doesn't exist and it there in 2006.

Google has a street view of it and has been able to find my address since
2007.

~~~
dingaling
> It is about 8 years behind in my neighborhood.

Like I replied to the poster up-page; it's eight years behind because _you_
haven't gone and added that data. Jump to it!

~~~
pekk
OSM is perfect for everything _!

_ Well, OK, it (still) isn't there yet... but it would be if everyone would
only donate large amounts of manual labor to reproduce data which is probably
available somewhere else, and just isn't allowed to be imported because of OSM
policies against automation

~~~
hnha
Was some import from you "rejected" or why are you so aggressive? There are no
rules against automation. There are just guidelines for not screwing up
imports. You can import lots of data perfectly fine if the license allows it
and you invest time into making it work flawlessly.

------
mjcohen
And then they charge you US $25 per year or $5 per month for maps!!!!

I'll stick with Co-pilot and Navigon. At least when you get the maps they are
yours forever.

~~~
mkesper
No need to use this service. If a big chunk of the money would go into osm,
I'd consider it fair, though.

------
clarry
So for those of you who live in the US, congrats.

The situation in my area is nowhere near as good. I've got a couple Garmin
GPSes as well as a GPS capable phone, and I would just love to map every road
and path in a 100km radius from home. Unfortunately all the mapping software
I've tried is so horribly slow I'd have to buy a new computer to be able to do
much at all with the data I can collect.

~~~
keenerd
> So for those of you who live in the US, congrats. The situation in my area
> is nowhere near as good. I've got a couple Garmin GPSes ...

This smells of FUD. First, we are talking about OSM. Not whatever tiny dataset
is loaded onto a Garmin. Second, you did not name your location.

Any time someone says "oh, you can't use online maps in $country" I pick some
little town in the middle of nowhere and OSM consistently has three times as
many roads as the Big Name maps.

> Unfortunately all the mapping software I've tried is so horribly slow

You don't need mapping software. Just wander around, export to GPX and upload
the GPX to OSM. Someone else can do the editing from your traces.

~~~
clarry
_This smells of FUD._

OSM is cool. Like I said, I would love to help with it, and I've got the tools
I need to collect data. So what is my motive to lie about it? Why would I
spread FUD?

 _Any time someone says "oh, you can't use online maps in $country" I pick
some little town in the middle of nowhere and OSM consistently has three times
as many roads as the Big Name maps_

Okay, let me give you a couple examples I am familiar with. Plenty of stuff is
missing or just plain wrong, right in town (now Google isn't perfect either
but the coverage is _much_ better). It only gets worse once you get out of
town.

[https://maps.google.com/?ll=62.316531,27.857552&spn=0.042946...](https://maps.google.com/?ll=62.316531,27.857552&spn=0.042946,0.132093&t=m&z=14)

[http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/62.3181/27.8425&layers=...](http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/62.3181/27.8425&layers=N)

\---

[https://maps.google.com/?ll=62.065628,28.308163&spn=0.043304...](https://maps.google.com/?ll=62.065628,28.308163&spn=0.043304,0.132093&t=m&z=14)

[http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/62.0659/28.2959&layers=...](http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/62.0659/28.2959&layers=N)

~~~
keenerd
Most of the time the country in question was in central/south america or
africa. I would never have expected Finland to be a counter-example. Thank
you.

But pretty much everyone else in your thread here disagrees about the tools
part.

------
GvS
"US and on iOS only"

~~~
gecko
There are links to not only Android, but even Windows Phone, on the linked
page. Where did you get iOS-only?

~~~
dan1234
From the article:

>Enter Telenav, where I work. We’ve spent approximately a zillion man-years to
fix these issues and today we’re announcing navigation using OSM within Scout,
our consumer navigation app. _We’re starting in the US and on iOS with the
rest to follow._

------
cnbuff410
So the more we use this app, the more contribution I can make back into OSM
AUTOMATICALLY, is that correct?

Hopefully they will release Android version app soon.

------
zmh
Maybe I overlook? Are there turn-by-turn navigation api yet? Over the last
year, every time I check it seems to be not available yet. I believe most or
all streets in OSM only support up to street level rather than street NUMBER
level. Well, please point me to some counter-examples if I am wrong.

~~~
morganherlocker
Try out OSRM[1]. It is open source[2], so you can run it yourself, or you can
use a public api for limited usage. The api has a JSON response with turn-by-
turn[3], and it is remarkably fast.

[1] [http://map.project-osrm.org/](http://map.project-osrm.org/) [2]
[https://github.com/DennisOSRM/Project-
OSRM](https://github.com/DennisOSRM/Project-OSRM) [3]
[https://github.com/DennisOSRM/Project-OSRM/wiki/Server-
api](https://github.com/DennisOSRM/Project-OSRM/wiki/Server-api)

~~~
zmh
Wow, speed is great. I'll definitely check it out. However, the second
statement still seems to be valid: OSM is still at the street name level
rather than street number level.

I read some MapQuest's document saying that Mapquest actually took points on a
street and interpolate all the numbers. Maybe OSM can do the same. Eagerly
waiting...

~~~
morganherlocker
OSM does have addresses, but coverage is far from perfect. Nominatum (the
geocoder used by OSRM) will interpolate addresses if it does not have the
exact parcel info, which is surprisingly accurate in many cases. Work is also
being done to create full address coverage as well[1], which you should check
out if you are interested.

[1] [http://openaddresses.io/](http://openaddresses.io/)

------
thrownaway2424
I installed this app and it seems fairly gross. Is it really just for driving
through places and not stopping? Because it seems to have close to zero points
of interest. In my town it is incapable of finding any restaurant or other
eatery which is not part of a huge national chain like McDonalds.

~~~
dingaling
> Because it seems to have close to zero points of interest.

1\. Go to osm.org 2\. Create an account 3\. Add the PoIs 4\. Save changes

~~~
jlarocco
That's all well and good for people who enjoy doing that. But I'm not
interested, and I suspect a lot of other people aren't interested.

And you can turn it around and say, "Well then it's your own fault OSM isn't
better," but the fact of the matter is, I don't care, and I'll just use Google
Maps, or Apple's maps, or some other map that has the info.

I like OSM, and I think it's neat, but trying to guilt people into helping out
is going to turn away more people than it's going to bring in.

~~~
fuck_google
Why should OSM even try to attract users that don't bring in any value by
contributing?

~~~
maxerickson
OSM shouldn't worry too much about those users.

If Telenav is attracting them, getting them to pay money and using some of
that money to improve OSM, the community probably shouldn't be too hostile to
honest evaluations from those people.

------
Semaphor
OSM has better maps than Google in my 200k pop town in the north of Germany.
Recently google even tried to have me walk through a closed company to get
where I wanted to go.

Sadly searching sucks (unless you know the specific address) and the reviews
for the international scout app make me very wary of using it.

------
chromelyke
For those of you asking about Global options, it sounds like this will happen
over time per the press release -
[http://www.telenav.com/about/pr/pr-20140519.html](http://www.telenav.com/about/pr/pr-20140519.html)

------
throwaway7767
Will the routing data be fed into OSM, or will telenav be building their own
closed routing database that they use in conjunction with OSM? I didn't see an
answer to that on the linked page.

------
netcan
"This item cannot be installed in your device's country"

Huh?

------
gchokov
The last I saw a similar post, couple of months ago, the map _was not_ ready
in my home area. Now tough, it's pretty advanced. Awesome progress!

------
thegeomaster
I hope they start doing Europe soon, OSM datasets definitely need some love
over here. And a big respect to all the people who made this possible.

~~~
ritonlajoie
Well, I typed my address in OSM (I live in Paris) and I can even see the
trees, on the map itself. I was very surprised.

Where do you live ? Also, you should really put some license there
[https://github.com/geomaster/vimrc](https://github.com/geomaster/vimrc) :)
Maybe try to promote a license you like :p

------
tgb
Play store says the app is incompatible with both my 4.4 nexus 7 and my aging
gingerbread phone, but doesn't say why. Anyone know?

~~~
dagurp
Same problem here. I have a Galaxy S3 (i9300)

------
justizin
Scout app is nice, but no cycling routes - something only Google seems to do.
:/

~~~
edraferi
Map My Ride has some great cycle mapping tools. They have several base maps
available, I'm not sure exactly where the data comes from.

------
leccine
I am glad to see OSM getting more popular because Google Maps is just getting
worse by every day. The new WebUI is absolutely terrible, I had to permanently
disable it because I could not even use my laptop while a GMap tab was open.
They removed features I used and added many I don't care. On the top of these,
the routing algo in GMaps is just laughable. It does not have the updated
version of no left and no right turns, if you have 2 routes one with no
highway one with highway it is going to pick the highway one even though it is
2 times the distance and so on. The traffic information is pretty much
useless, only got better when they merged in Waze information but still bad.

