
The Ugliest Sign in America - interkats
https://medium.com/matter/thing-piece-the-ugliest-sign-in-america-5f53652ba7b
======
baddox
Is it a common opinion that these signs are _ugly_? I certainly don't consider
them aesthetically pleasing, but they are so ubiquitous, functional, and
necessary that it never even crossed my mind to think of them as either ugly
_or_ attractive, in the same way that I've never pondered the aesthetic merits
of stop signs.

~~~
Luc
> ubiquitous, functional, and necessary

I think it's like the plumage of the male peacock. It doesn't make sense at
all to put on that display, but if everyone does it you can't be the only one
out, because it's expected.

Here in old-timey Europe I know only one shop that has an open sign like that,
and it's a massage parlor.

~~~
davidw
In Italy, I kind of associate signs like that with fast food - kebab shops,
for instance.

~~~
dredmorbius
Those are the first places I consciously registered seeing them myself.

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Aqwis
Tangential story: I live in Norway where neon signs are basically unknown (or
at least, were back then). When I was a kid and visited the continent for the
first time, I recall being struck by how common neon signs were, even in
"serious" establishments like drug stores. At the time, already the
pretentious aesthete, I quickly decided that the popularity of neon signs on
the continent was a sign of poor taste.

After reading this article, I wonder why these kinds of differences between
countries exist. In Norway it would _almost_ be gauche to open a brick-and-
mortar business without first hiring a designer to create your visual
expression, but other countries seem to like neon signs (and the like) better
or alternatively just don't care as much about the visual design of a store's
sign.

~~~
jeswin
> After reading this article, I wonder why these kinds of differences between
> countries exist.

The US has high per-capita income (lower than Norway, but not by much), but
that average hides a lot of income disparity. This percolates to other
disciplines as well; lots of highly educated people but also a large
disinterested population; plenty of artistic talent but also a majority which
is not able to fully appreciate aesthetics.

Some level of homogeneity (which is the true form of equality) is perhaps a
characteristic of sophisticated future societies.

Add: Among wealthy nations, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Japan sit at the
bottom of income disparity indexes.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equ...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equ..).

~~~
Turing_Machine
Just because someone's taste differs from yours doesn't make them "not able to
fully appreciate aesthetics".

~~~
federico3
Sigh.

------
whatshisface
"Because LEDs are essentially microchips, they can be programmed."

This is incorrect. The die process size (and chemistry) used for making LEDs
would make absolutely terrible microchips. All programmable signs have
separate control chips.

~~~
njohnson41
LEDs at 4 V DC are probably much easier to control with "microchips", which
operate at a similar voltage, than neon at 2-15 KV AC. I agree he worded it
badly, but the conclusion still makes sense for a loose reading of
"essentially".

~~~
randomdata
Plus, the RGB LED pictured in the article can be "programmed" in the sense
that the colour can be defined on the fly, and isn't bound to the bulb colour
defined in the original design.

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csours
As a former night worker, let me say, no matter how ugly, JUST LET ME KNOW IF
YOU'RE OPEN. And your hours of operation.

------
prawn
Neon "doesn't feel cool" and LEDs make a taco place seem upscale?!

LED signs like that make a place seem cheap and tacky.

I would've said that neon was retro/cool?

~~~
MBlume
Different things seem cool to different people. _In particular_ , different
things seem cool depending on your social class, especially depending on which
social class you want to signal membership in/which social classes you think
you could be mistaken for and want to disclaim membership in. I bet you don't
think gold-colored iPhone cases with fake jewels on them look particularly
cool either.

See part 1 here: [http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-
left/](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/)

~~~
bmelton
Moreover, even things that look cool to different people can look cool in
different contexts.

A traditional neon "Open" sign might look horrible contrasted against the
sleek interior of an Apple store, or Crate and Barrel, but could well be
perfectly appropriate and hip at a Johnny Rockets.

------
mc32
What's funny is that I have come across small shopping places, not quite large
enough to be called centers, which only allow the old-style carved in wood,
probably with a precision router, but non the less, only visible with the aid
of daylight and at night focused lights. Depending on lighting conditions, and
the contrast, they can be hard to read.

That appears to signal 'upscale' and cachet, I guess, as I have mostly seen it
in tony areas.

As for LED vs Neon, I think it all depends on the design and how well it fits
in to the design of the rest of the business.

If it's simply for utilitarian purposes, like say a dry cleaner's, all you
need to know is that they are open or closed. Aesthetics, don't come much into
play, except for the new 'green' dry cleaning, so i suppose LEDs would reflect
conservation a little better.

Anyhow, I think one's preference for signage depends on your exposure. If Neon
signs remind you of Bail Bonds, dodgy motels and other peripheral businesses,
you'll probably think they are tacky. If instead they recall a great BBQ joint
or sushi bar, you probably have a favorable view of them. Same for the other
signage technologies.

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sparkzilla
The ones most people buy from Sam's club [1] look a lot better than the
samples he shows in the article (and look better in real life than on the
Sam's Club site). I had one of these in my store, and the fake neon actually
looked pretty good. And it had the handy feature of telling customers when the
store was open.

[http://www.samsclub.com/sams/double-stroke-open-sign-
super-b...](http://www.samsclub.com/sams/double-stroke-open-sign-super-bright-
led/prod1260423.ip)

------
zhte415
While the article was focused on why LEDs are bad, it did briefly touch on the
history of signage but missed an important point: The masses were until
relatively recently illiterate, and a sign had much power.

"Where shall we meet?" "The White Swan." Which could be identified by a
picture of a while swan hanging outside.

I can't help but feel signage still achieves these purposes of association
(which the author also touched on, but didn't elaborate on): A tacky neon sign
can be recognized instantly from 100 meters or more: size, colours, rough
silhouette, instant recognition of what it means, an assurance of the level of
quality (i.e. average, run-of-the-mill, but probably good enough).

------
sehugg
In my town someone has gone up and down the main road selling variously-
colored LED light strips, and many businesses have used them to outline their
windows, doors, trees, fences, etc. In many places, the LEDs are so bright you
can barely see the name of the business at night -- which often is non-
illuminated.

------
joshvm
What's wrong with electroluminscent wire?

It's inexpensive, has the 'swoosh' and is pretty much indestructible.

[http://www.thepoopers.com/house/blog/diy-neon-
sign](http://www.thepoopers.com/house/blog/diy-neon-sign)

~~~
lstamour
Very cool. But quoting the article:

> The light coming from EL Wire has varying intensities depending on the type
> and thickness you buy. They do not compete with traditional neons in terms
> of intensity though. But you're getting a compromise for an easy do-it-at-
> home alternative. All EL wires naturally slowly degrade in UV light, but
> they're just fine for most purposes. If you need extra UV protecion,
> coolneon.com's "Phat" wire have extra UV protection, so they could work
> indoors or out (but you probably should keep it away from bright sun
> anyway).

I did, while reading the original post, had to wonder: why don't more signs
use LEDs to light up coloured plastic from behind? It might look nicer... But
it might also end up costing more, so perhaps I have my answer. And of course,
this is all assuming you want a tacky open sign instead of something more
useful, or redesigning a storefront to more clearly indicate if you're open or
not. I hate when people forget to turn off the open signs.

------
EvanAnderson
The article mentions Wade Swormstedt and the Swormstedt family's background in
signs. Tod Swormstedt founded a sign museum in Cincinnati, OH
([http://www.americansignmuseum.org/](http://www.americansignmuseum.org/)). If
you're at all into the history of signs and placards you'll really enjoy
visiting it.

~~~
michael_h
I'm not into the history of signs or placards at all, and I _still_ thought
that museum was superb. I took the guided tour with Tod himself. His
enthusiasm for signage made the whole thing all the more interesting.

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ginko
As an European visiting the US, I have to say that these Open signs are
definitely useful.

You can tell from afar if a place is open or not.

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underwater
So an outdated technology was replaced by a cheaper solution that served the
exact same purpose. Sounds like we should be cheering for the the LED signs.

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coo1k
Neon signs are confusing during day. They are not bright enough in bright
sunlight. You have to look closely to see if they are on or off. Flip boards
seem very practical and do their job well in day or night. I see purpose in
having name of the shop done in neon as it's the brand name. Don't see why
Open signs should also be in neon. Initially, I thought thats what the article
was about.

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mturmon
The author, Dan Koeppel, runs a cool event called Big Parade
([http://bigparadela.tumblr.com](http://bigparadela.tumblr.com)).

He chooses a walking route through an area with historical significance, and
gets a group of people to walk it. The main one is downtown LA to Griffith
observatory, which gets several hundred people, but he has done other one-
offs. From the description:

"The Big Parade is a two-day walk in Los Angeles. It includes about 80 public
stairways over 35 miles, from downtown to the Griffith Observatory. The walk
runs on a timetable, and is designed as a series of attached loops, so that
people can come and go as they please - join us for a mile, an hour, or an
epic."

------
PhasmaFelis
The idea that neon is classy but nearly-indistinguishable LED is not seems
completely arbitrary and idiosyncratic.

~~~
dagw
Neon has a long history and have a retro nostalgia feel that harkens back to
the 30's,40's and 50's. LEDs are just cold modern technology.

------
legulere
Do we need open/closed signs at all? Isn't it often obvious if the store is
open or closed?

~~~
ToastyMallows
I think the benefit of these signs is seeing it from a distance, so you don't
have to go up to the door and check.

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anigbrowl
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message)

 _Understanding media_ is _enormously_ worth reading if you haven't already.
It's short but dense with insight.

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bsder
From my point of view, these signs always seem to be _WAY_ brighter than
corresponding neon.

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pcunite
I have this one on my wall, very cool.

[http://www.mystiglo.com/index.php?route=product/product&path...](http://www.mystiglo.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=50)

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TazeTSchnitzel
Disappointed that they aren't covering the _real_ reason:

[http://youtu.be/OtX2IToSuHY](http://youtu.be/OtX2IToSuHY)

------
72deluxe
I think the neon one is a really great looking sign, particularly the one in
cyan with a cyan surround.

Not so sure on the LED ones though!

------
Kliment
What's with the disgusting "Are you human? Recommend this story." bullshit at
the bottom? Are they implying that only robots would read it and not be
grateful enough for the wisdom imparted upon them to recommend?

------
joe_the_user
Nah,

The "open" signs provided beer or soda makers were uglier. The LED open sign
just kind of mediocre.

America has always been a rather ugly place. The many wretched, tasteless
signs hanging on liquor stores provided by the nastiest sugar, tobacco and
alcohol interests have overall been the capstones of this typically American
ugliness. Anything is better than these. Not classy or nice looking but not
quite as terrible.

~~~
cokernel_hacker
I think that's a bit of an over generalization. I find many of its buildings
quite breathtaking: \-
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Center_for_the_Performi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Center_for_the_Performing_Arts)
\-
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/240_Centre_Street](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/240_Centre_Street)
\-
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Farley_Post_Office](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Farley_Post_Office)
\-
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alwyn_Court](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alwyn_Court)
\-
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton_U.S._Custom_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton_U.S._Custom_House)

Yeah, I might have to agree that American art and beauty might not best be
showcased at liquor stores but lets not use that brush to paint the rest of
the country.

~~~
arrrg
Funny how tastes differ. I certainly wouldn’t disagree that the US has great
architecture (such a rich, diverse, and big place is practically guaranteed to
have that), though the examples you picked seem like the blandest bombast ever
to me. All interesting and even fascinating buildings, certainly, though not
something I find aesthetically pleasing.

