

Feeling Dirty on Hacker News - ericHosick
http://blog.interfacevision.com/index.php/2011/09/feeling-dirty-on-hacker-news/

======
josteink
I've been feeling dirty, but for other reasons.

Anything I post critical of Android and Microsoft on Hacker news gets voted
up. Most criticism I post about Apple gets voted deeply sub-zeroed or for
submissions, flagged and removed. And it has gotten much, much worse the last
6 months.

Hacker News is definitely turning into the monoculture Paul Graham said (here
on this site) that he wanted to prevent. At this point I feel the value of
having a discussion about matters here has dropped sharply and is continuing
to do so.

What's the point of commenting when it will get minus'ed, despite backing your
comment with verifiable data? Meanwhile the ones saying something equivalent
of "I disagree (but I have no argument)" gets top votes. What's the point of
submitting stories when you know it will get flagged and censored?

A culture of censorship and self-affirmation. Do really I want to be a part of
that?

What is interesting is that I observe the deepest abuse of the moderation
system after morning has hit the US continent. During European working hours
this place is usually quite civilized. At this point Hacker news seems to
contain at least two widely different cultures. I sense a clash or divide of
some sort coming in the near future.

Thinking about it, my feelings right now tells me that this place has turned
into a smaller, but much worse mob-rule than reddit ever was. And I quit
reddit because of the completely uncritical mob-rule found there.

Time to do some reflection around my online-habbits. I hear Google+ is a great
place for reasonable hacker-type discussion these days.

~~~
cormullion
It may be that everyone is tired of endless Apple-related discussions and
speculations, based on virtually no 'official' information. Unfortunately,
because Apple prefers to say nothing, everyone else on the internet thinks
that their personal opinions are an adequate substitute. Although I don't
bother to look at these stories myself, it may be that others have got tired
of reading them.

I prefer to read positive and educational stories that appear on Hacker News,
and stories that are unlikely to be noticed by many given their location - if
people posted and commented on these more than on the latest speculation and
gossip, or on stories from sites that already get more publicity than they
deserve, Hacker News might be a more rewarding place for everyone...

------
5hoom
I hear you, felt a bit dirty myself on HN for the first time today.

Earlier today I posted what was obviously a controversial comment on a
previous story, got lots of down-votes, fine.

The bit I find strange is that other comments on unrelated stories got down-
voted near simultaneously. My other posts weren't that great or anything, but
I've posted stuff of about the same quality before & generally been up-voted
(or ignored).

My little anecdote could well be coincidence (& probably is) but my point is
that in any community there are those who like to engage in petty vendettas,
and there are some who are just jerks.

Keep the faith good sir. You obviously _are_ a 'real nerd' (judging from your
blog posts), and looks like you're doing just fine with that :)

~~~
jgrahamc
I too have seen this pattern of downvoting comments by the same author (i.e.
me). It seems that some people here are disagreeing with a comment and then
punishing the author my downvoting other comments by the same author.

~~~
dhimes
Likewise. It's been going on for a while. When it first started I was
wondering if it would pass or if this is a strange attractor of these types of
sites or what-have-you. Now, I am disappointed. Every now and again it appears
like someone will downvote a lot of my comments _without comment_.

It's the "without comment" that is the poison here, IMHO.

~~~
shasta
It's not _necessarily_ malicious. It could be someone checking out your other
posts to see where you're coming from, and then finding out that in turns out
they disagree with all of your recent comments.

~~~
dhimes
I agree, but that would probably be rare, especially across threads. The
culture here for a while (HN in its "prime") was that if something merited a
downvote, then it merited a comment articulating the dissent. We didn't have
too many trolls (a few, but not many), so most of the time it was better to
stimulate the discussion by posting your explicit disagreements.

In fact, it was common to upvote people who presented an interesting opinion
even if you disagreed with it.

Now it's common to see someone downvoted into the gray without a single
response. In short, if somebody has to ask "why the downvotes?" we're doing it
wrong. (Presumably trolls know why they are getting downvoted.)

------
0x12
Keep up the good work and don't let idiots like these distract you.

If there is one thing that characters like that achieve then it is that in the
longer term they will come to hate themselves as much as the world around
them.

Just skimming that article I notice that this person:

\- didn't bother to check out the limitations of the site whose users he
criticizes.

\- does not like to compete on a level playing field

\- hates his customers

\- thinks that anonymity is a shield from behind which you can say things that
you would not say in person with impunity

Not much good can come from that, eventually such behavior leads to self
destruction.

Keep in mind that any fool can break a window, but only experts can make
glass.

Please don't let crap like this get you down, it isn't worth it. I'm kind of
surprised that it got the attention that it did here but that may be the kind
of attention that normally is reserved for road accidents.

------
danielh
Don't feel bad. I have to admit, I too was thinking that your project
description was pretty detailed but somehow lacking, until I learned about the
1000 character limit, which "Mr. Case" forgot to mention or wasn't aware of.
So I think it is really not your fault, but a shortcoming of Tinyproj, similar
to the somewhat vague "timeframe" field. Considering the maturity of Tinyproj
I'm confident that Kyle will iron out these wrinks.

------
juretriglav
There will always be an opposing force to your success. Success means working
against entropy and winning, not the easiest job in the universe. Since you've
founded a few companies you probably know this quite well already.

I think this particular opposition is minimal and can be easily and completely
disregarded though.

You posted a project description that you thought was sufficient for the kind
of person you were looking for and you got a good response and you fixed your
problem. Now somebody says you're doing it wrong.

Hack on! Live the dream!

------
coderdude
You can't let what people say on the Internet bug you. The Internet is retard
central station and there will always be people who don't like you, disagree
with you, or think you're a fake. Or maybe they don't but they want to piss
you off for the fun of seeing butt rage. You're better off if you just assume
everyone is retarded and/or trolling. The fact that you're writing about him
probably pleases him. Don't be surprised if he comes in here and says "u mad
bro?"

------
Permit
Was I wrong in my assumption that the original author wasn't "ousting" Eric as
the fake nerd, but the users on his site? I'm 99% sure that comment was aimed
at what the anonymous user called "every douche with a checkbook" and aimed at
business types who want to make a quick buck of software.

I think if you reread the article, specifically the parts relating to
TinyProj, he even mentions that the project simply needs to be curated more
carefully. (Whether or not that's true is a whole new beast).

Edit: I see now that I was mistaken. The site was created by Kyle Bragger, and
a critiqued ad posted by Eric.

------
waitwhat
A few nits: The first link in the article comes to this thread, which I
suspect is not what you wanted. "Oust" doesn't mean what you think it does.
Who is this entrepeneur who only gets mentioned once, but was apparently
helpful? Did you really have to use txtspk?

~~~
ericHosick
Your user name is appropriate.

Yes. I ment this link: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3015677> .

About the entrepreneur stuff. Ya, it was the owner/owners of
<https://tinyproj.com/> . I want to afford them some privacy.

~~~
dhimes
The thing to do in these situations is to comment right on the blog and
explain the reasons your post was "vague." Perhaps the blogger (Case) didn't
know? Perhaps he can correct his post?

Failing that, you can then call out "hack bloggers who run off on rants before
they check facts (blah blah blah)" in a post of your own if you want war, or
chalk it up to a bad day for Mr. Case if you want peace.

------
jongraehl
You were probably unfairly targeted because you're not yet a very clear
writer. Keep practicing. The post you're upset about was a reckless rant that
hit more than one inappropriate target.

~~~
jisaacstone
Agree. I am also not a good writer, and what I write is often unclear or
confusing unless I've reviewed it carefully.

It's dumb, but many words and phrases _do_ have multiple meanings.

Good news is: practice helps. When you are misunderstood, try to understand
why and rewrite until it is clear.

------
bootload
_"... So, when someone, anonymously, says something like this: “I’m sure I’m
not the only programmer that can sniff out a fake nerd.” – Edward Case And
tries to oust me call me out as that fake nerd. Well. Ya. You’ve got a lot to
learn about people on Hacker News. Generally, we know our shit. ..."_

Of the posts that I dislike, ad-hominem criticism, the singling individuals
are the least helpful, especially when posted by an _anonymous coward_. I
can't tell if this is valid criticism or a rant from a random programmer
trolling because the source plays the man, not the problem.

A more helpful article might have been discussing the natural tension between
_entrepreneurs_ and _programmers_. Startup founders are usually the union of
both, but I've noticed ideas pitched from programmers (as opposed to
entrepreneurs/founders) tend to downplay the importance of everything else
related to the business. Startups aren't just code. There are a multitude of
conflicting issues that need attention. There might be some valid criticisms,
but that's all they are. Don't beat yourself up over a random post on a
bulletin board from a an anonymous source from a tabloid.

------
Luyt
_"I was limited to 1000 characters on Tinyproj. I did have more detailed
requirements. The 1000 char limit was a pain, I have to say, and I was going
to quickly give up on Tinyproj."_

It's not so bad, is it? 1000 characters should be enough to give a general
idea of what kind of application you have in mind. Interested developers will
contact you, and from there the details can be communicated.

------
jarin
People on the Internet are dumb and will hate on literally anything. News at
11.

------
robinduckett
‘If “u” are.’

I’m sorry, but you said you started programming at 13, how well do you program
now, at age 14?

You are not texting, you have a keyboard and the full wealth of the English
language at your fingertips. There is no need to abbreviate.

------
schiptsov
Why you're expecting something good form a "market place"? Even Zarathustra
spake that it should be avoided. So, "walk proud, William Blake" if you've
decided to come here. ^_^

You have basically two strategies - being what you are or being a karma-whore.
First one is better in the long run.

