

Ask HN: Why is IE6 still so popular? - jonny_eh

And will it be for much longer?<p>According to some stats[1], IE6 has about 11% market share. Seems kinda high. Are these users worth bending over backwards for to allow them to use your site?<p>I'm almost done implementing a new web app. I've been using Chrome during development almost exclusively due to its great set of debugging tools. From time to time I'll then go open it up in firefox and fix little CSS inconsistencies.<p>But now that we're nearing the launch of our v1, we have to consider IE compatibility. Since we used tools like JQuery, the site behaves as expected, but the CSS is all messed up.<p>By technology standards, IE6 is ancient. Why don't IE6 users install Chrome, IE8, Firefox, or anything else?<p>Is IE6 still popular because it was the default browser in XP, people don't want/can't upgrade to Windows 7, and since they're using a pirated copy, they can't upgrade IE?<p>I'm sure there are some enterprise users, like my wife, who are forced to use IE6 because IT hasn't been given the budget to upgrade everyone. But they shouldn't be more than a percentage point in browser market share, right?<p>How do we kill it? Do we turn our noses up at it and force users to at least install Chrome Tab? Have other developers found this to be a workable compromise? Is there a javascript library that will automatically convert a site's CSS to a versin that's IE compatible?<p>[1] http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=2
======
michael_dorfman
IE6 is still the browser of choice in some rigid, older enterprises, and if
your target audience consists largely of Enterprisey folks, you've got to
support it. Their reasons for refusing to upgrade vary, but are largely
irrelevant-- it's a reality that has to be faced, for whatever reason.

If, on the other hand, you are after the consumer market, I'd suggest you
forget IE6 altogether. Any home user still using an un-upgraded copy of
WindowsXP is not going to want to spend money for software anyway, so forget
them.

The point is: it doesn't matter if IE6 has 11% of the global market share. The
important question is: what percentage of _your_ target audience do they own?

~~~
jonny_eh
Good point. But if enterprise developers continue to support IE6, then there
will continue to be a lack of pressure to upgrade, which will perpetuate the
need for IE6 support. How can we break out of this vicious circle?

~~~
michael_dorfman
_How can we break out of this vicious circle?_

Decide you don't want the money the Enterprisey folks represent. Or, be so
important to _their_ business that they'd rather upgrade than do without you.

~~~
pasbesoin
The way I see it, a lot of corporate people shop from work. If you're LL Bean
or Amazon, support it.

If you're selling something people aren't going to purchase from or for their
enterprise cubicle(s), forget it.

\--

Oops. I forgot to add research. A family member needs their site to remain
usable/attractive to the significant corporate population in this area who
will visit it while researching options from work. A lot of big, stuffy
businesses whose employees are potential customers for this local business.

------
kls
Our research shows IE 6 at 4% of the market and our numbers take the most
optimistic results. I have seen other at 3% with a more pessimistic model.

We recommend to out clients that they use the compounding development cost of
chasing IE 5-6 and non-JS browsers and apply it to targeting mobile platforms.
You get more bang for your buck doing so. By eliminating IE < 7 and none JS
browsers you are walling yourself of from a little less than 10% of the market
but the development effort to chase them increased development cost nearly 2x,
targeting the iPhone (especially if your web was built with a REST backbone)
is significantly cheaper 5K is the average app build, will net a better return
on investment.

As well some assumptions can be made about older browser uses, they are either
not early adopters or are using a corporate PC and may have access to a more
modern environment at home or via a mobile device while not quantifiable,
these factors will certainly work to reduce that total market size of non-
modern browsers.

As I always say to clients, if you get to the point where you have to chase
that < 10% for growth you have a good problem.

------
notahacker
If Microsoft had introduced Google Chrome style browser updates (either at the
beginning or as a default XP service pack) this wouldn't be a problem. But
even without problems of enterprise lockin, the average person doesn't update
software that appears to work OK very often. Some of them are probably still
using Windows 2000 or ME, which doesn't even support newer versions of IE but
is still fit for most simple purposes

A significant proportion of internet users don't know what a browser is, and
if they see a website that advises them they need to download a piece of
software to get it to work, they instantly distrust it. In all honesty it's
probably better overall that people who don't know about browsers _do_ ignore
websites with buttons telling them they'll enjoy a better viewing experience
if they download and install extra software.

Like people using the latest cutting-edge iPads, they'll just have to miss the
occasionally useful flashiness that their default browser doesn't attempt to
support. The average person that hasn't upgraded by now probably isn't going
to be swayed by yet another broken rendering or "this site is only viewable in
IE7+ or Chrome or Firefox"

The only party that can seriously reduce IE6 market share is Microsoft, by
using OS updates to force upgrades and creating an "IE6 mode" that allows
those kludgy enterprise apps to continue to function.

------
rst
In large corporations, there are often webapps that depend on ie6's buggy
behavior, and break with anything else. And it may not even be under the
company's own control --- I know of one SaaS player in the financial space
that has a major bank pinned down to ie6, even though the bank would like to
upgrade.

Chrome Frame is one way out of these situations, but convincing IT that it's a
good idea is a struggle at best.

------
chad-lundgren
I didn't understand why NetMarketShare's Internet Explorer market share
numbers were so much higher than other sources. Then I found this page -
<http://marketshare.hitslink.com/weighting.aspx> \- which says "...We now
weight Chinese traffic proportionally higher in our global reports".

China has a LOT of IE6 users because of historical issues related to SSL
export restrictions. NetMarketShare's 11% number for IE6 is higher than IE7
(8%), which is ridiculous. So unless you have a lot of Chinese users, the
number from StatCounter (5%) is probably closer to the truth -
[http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-
monthly-201001...](http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-
monthly-201001-201101)

------
dstein
Any web developer that adds IE6 support to a new web application deserves to
get their house TP'ed.

------
brianmario
For the love of god please stop supporting IE6 people. It's not the Enterprise
that's keeping it around it's US (developers that continue to support it).

If the entire internet didn't work on it, you bet your ass these slow-poke
Enterprise folks would figure something out ;)

------
jonny_eh
Just found a JS library that's supposed to fix IE5-8's browser compliance. I
haven't tried it yet though. Is this used a lot?

<http://code.google.com/p/ie7-js/>

------
indrora
one word: compatibility.

Most (if not all) of the management tools that are currently being used by
major corporations are made for IE6 (because thats what was big when it was
designed and purchased).

The other particular reason happens to be _schools_. In highschool (and still
now in college) the IT team hasn't managed to get clearance to upgrade (it
might /cost money/!)

Congratulations, A winner is You for anything in the US. I can't vouch for
anything else, so there's 5% of the share.

