
Flip the stick - dwynings
http://sivers.org/flipstick
======
shawndrost
If you're young and you're depressed by the phrase "It's all about who you
know", I really encourage you follow this quick, life-changing script: email
two or three people in your town that can help you, and offer to buy them
lunch so you can pick their brain. It's very easy to meet people, and you
don't have to be fake, politic, or even very outgoing.

~~~
sivers
Good advice! Maybe avoid the phrase "pick your brain" when you ask, though.
It's much more mutually-beneficial to offer up an interesting two-way
conversation about a subject you're both interested in.

("You're doing some fascinating things with crowdsourcing. It's something I've
been diving into as well, and have some ideas for you. At very least it'll be
a good conversation. Can I treat you to a quick after-work drink at Tres
Agaves across the street from your office some day next week?")

~~~
evansolomon
Honestly, I think the 'pick your brain' approach would work better in a lot of
cases. Particularly if you are inexperienced, young, etc. Personally, I would
almost never turn down a request to meet from someone who wanted to ask me for
help, advice, introductions, etc, but as soon as someone says they have ideas
for me I get pretty suspicious. Nine times out of ten that guy is trying to
sell you something.

Of course, if it's something you can legitimately add value to (e.g. you
actually have been diving into crowdsourcing or whatever) then your approach
may be the way to go.

Great post.

By the way, if anyone actually wants to buy me a drink at Tres Agaves (which
is very close to my office), please let me know :)

~~~
andrewljohnson
Agree... flattery is a reasonable way to a person's heart, particularly when
it's justified by the person's success and your own low station.

~~~
lsc
really? I mean I suppose it depends on the person. Personally, I find being on
the receiving end of obvious flattery to be distinctly uncomfortable, and I'm
beginning to get a fair amount of that myself. Personally, (and I think this
might be true of most people who are primarily technical) if a less
experienced person wants my help, the best way to get it is to ask an
interesting question in a way that shows you have made experience-appropriate
progress solving the problem yourself. (That, or offer to work for me for
cheap.)

~~~
evansolomon
I am admittedly not primarily technical, but I don't see that as relevant
here. If someone actually has a legitimate way to add value to the person
they're asking for help from, then that's great. Often that's not going to be
the case though, and trying to fake that is (for me) a recipe for disaster.

To go back to the example of offering an idea to help with whatever, that's
really just going to be a waste of time for most people. I'd much prefer the
person simply say they want x/y/z and would like to meet or talk. Call it
obvious flattery, it's also honest and efficient.

~~~
lsc
"if a less experienced person wants my help, the best way to get it is to ask
an interesting question in a way that shows you have made experience-
appropriate progress solving the problem yourself. "

So, I'm not trying to say a less experienced person should come up with
something to try to help the more experienced person; I'm saying that if a
less experienced person wants me to help them, they should show that they are
likely to get it done with minimal hand holding from me. Helping other people
is fun, but I'm only going to do it if it's not that much work for me and it's
only satisfying if they pull through and get the thing done.

In a way I may be agreeing with your initial post; it's just that you don't
flatter technical people by complementing them; that just makes us feel weird.
you flatter technical people by asking their opinion/knowledge, or letting
them help you in ways that are easy for them. (the line between flattery and
asking for free help is a thin one. A lot of that depends on the more
experienced person's assessment of the less experienced person's potential and
ability. it also has to do with the level of responsibility expected of the
more experienced person; if you expect me to keep track, organize, or follow
through on something, that's /work/ and I expect to get paid. If you want to
ask my opinion on how to solve an interesting question, that's fun, and it's
somewhat flattering that you think my yammerings are useful. a paper could be
written on when it is good to ask for free help, and when it is bad to do so.
)

~~~
evansolomon
"you don't flatter technical people by complementing them; that just makes us
feel weird"

Honestly it sounds like we are very nearly on the same page, though this quote
is a bit odd to me. I don't think it's fair to define "technical people" by
saying that compliments make them feel weird. I should point out that I'm not
the one that has talked about flattering as a tactic.

I think we completely agree on having something interesting to talk about as a
helpful quality.

------
CitizenKane
I really enjoy reading Derek's posts. The culture that surrounds starting a
company is often negative and requires a lot of effort to really push through.
It's always nice to get a reminder that there is some hope and to get a
refresher that has some broader perspective.

------
SwellJoe
Derek is among my favorite motivational gurus. And I mean that in a good way.

~~~
Psyonic
It's because he hasn't yet come to believe he's God. Hopefully he'll stay that
way.

~~~
sivers
:-) Hacker News comments are really humbling. So many brilliant people here
that really call you on your shit in an intelligent way. You can never
mistakenly think you're brighter than most. Most of the time I feel, “Wow. I
have nothing to add.”

~~~
donaq
Most of the time, I feel stupid here.

~~~
aero142
I went to the YC Meetup at SXSWi, and it was amazing how many quick and bright
people there were. It made me respect the online group that much more.

------
staunch
I think the last part is really important. Even when a horrible system works
in your favor, it behooves you to do what they can to improve the system, or
at least prop the door open for others.

------
ottbot
It seems like it all comes down to what happens after the lecture from the BMI
guy. He gets his card and then actually calls him.

I'm think if I was in this situation, I wouldn't capitalize on this and just
shove the card in a drawer - having no clue what to actually call the guy
about, or be too afraid to ask for something.

~~~
TheSOB88
Stop it.

------
davidw
In a lot of cases, the guy at the other end of the stick is going to do his
damndest to make sure you stay where you are, because he likes being
wealthy/in charge/whatever.

~~~
gvb
The goal isn't to switch ends with the guy holding the "clean" end, it is to
find all the _other_ people who are sick of getting the shitty end of the
stick, and then provide good service to _them._

Pretty soon the guy offering the shitty end will wonder where all his
consumers[1] went.

[1] I _hate_ that term. It invariably is a signal that whatever is being
offered is shitty.

------
aarghh
This bears repeating - is working for the man getting you down? Then be the
man - and be a better man.

------
quizbiz
I can relate to the feeling when people suggest that, "It's all about who you
know". The well connected seem to have a monopoly on relationships that
matter.

I really admire your quick thinking but I feel that you don't always have an
opportunity. I have been to lectures where as the lecture is over, the
speakers seem to be escorted out.

Establishing a personal connection is difficult. One of the things I love
about HN is how accessible everyone is, but not everyone provides a point of
contact.

------
pw0ncakes
Good story, absolutely horrible generalization.

"Shitty sticks" are usually a result of disadvantageous power dynamics, often
set in place by the mistakes of previous generations, and therefore not so
easily flippable, given the massive number of people who benefit from keeping
them in position.

Take, for example, the relationship between VCs and entrepreneurs. VCs make
entrepreneurs pay legal expenses, often ask for outrageous terms and returns
(participating preferred, multiple liquidation preferences), and tend to
demand such a degree of power as to ruin the company. That's, without debate,
a shitty stick. The simplistic solution, "become a VC", doesn't make any
sense. 1. Most entrepreneurs don't want to be VCs, and 2. most of them can't
join that club.

~~~
lionhearted
> That's, without debate, a shitty stick. The simplistic solution, "become a
> VC", doesn't make any sense. 1. Most entrepreneurs don't want to be VCs, and
> 2. most of them can't join that club.

Well, the examples Derek gave were of starting a bank or becoming a
distributor, but that's not the only way to flip the stick. When you've got a
rough idea, an unproven business plan, and some smart but unproven people
you're going to get bad terms, because the vast majority of rough ideas,
unproven business plans, and smart but unproven people's companies flame out.

You could flip that around by working up any of those - turn your rough idea
into a concrete, functional product. Prove the business plan (easiest way is
revenues). And then after you've had some successes under your belt, you get
money at great terms in the future.

The person with less leverage always gets the shit end of the stick. There's
usually a lot more smart-but-unproven people with hazy unproven ideas that
want financing than there is venture money to go around. Hence, bad terms. But
there's also nowhere near enough companies raising money on a solid, proven
growth trajectory being run by credible people. If you get that going on, you
can raise crazy amounts of money on good terms.

"Flip the stick" means you don't have to accept the position of lower leverage
and the bad terms that come with it, the shit end of the stick. There's more
ways to accomplish that than just "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".

~~~
pw0ncakes
_There's usually a lot more smart-but-unproven people with hazy unproven ideas
that want financing than there is venture money to go around. Hence, bad
terms._

Right, but bad VC terms shouldn't even exist. There are a lot of bad ideas out
there and a few good ones. VCs are "supposed" to be the ones who can pick out
the good deals; that's why they get paid their high salaries. If the deal is
good, the terms should be good because the VC wants the founders to have high
morale and a successful company. If the deal is bad, the VC shouldn't fund it
at all.

I wouldn't be insulted or offended if a VC rejected me. I'd expect quite a few
rejections. Multiple liquidation preferences are an insult; it says "we think
you're fucking pathetic; here are some scraps".

------
tylo
_"Think banks have an unfair advantage? Then be a bank. Think corporate radio
is keeping your music from being heard? Then make a radio station."_

A willingness to oversimplify the world certainly makes it a lot easier to
write the kind of motivational drivel that this post aspires towards.

~~~
pcc
Whoa there. You're not even mentioning that he gives an example for each of
these. Besides, he himself is an example of this; as he says, instead of
complaining about music distribution, he started a distributor.

Is it not the case that our minds often like to tell us bleak stories that
turn out to be far removed from reality? So maybe, reality doesn't necessarily
need to be as complex as our minds might try to make it?

~~~
demallien
Exactly - plus of course, when you run into something that is stopping you
from doing what you want to do, it is highly likely that other people have the
same problem - you've just discovered a potential market! Of course, if you
are not an entrepreneur, this discovery may not interest you very much - you
just want to do your thing...

------
jacoblyles
Who the fuck puts shit on a stick?

------
fforw
Don't like world hunger? Starve people yourself! Don't like murder? Start
killing people!

~~~
tome
That's not the point. The point is if you don't like what _someone_ else (not
_something_ else) is doing to you, become one of them yourself.

------
Snark7
Cool, this way it will never be possible for a small group of people to
exploit everyone else for their own gain.

Oh, wait.

