
Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned - frutiger
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/nyregion/foie-gras-ban-nyc.html
======
jillesvangurp
Nice case of double standards. The practice of force feeding geese looks more
cruel than it is. It's basically nothing compared to what we routinely do to
chickens and other farm animals. Industrial chicken farming is infinitely more
cruel compared to this.

We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are
fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) in a way that is the complete
opposite of the dystopian life of a chicken bred in cage that needs
antibiotics just to survive their miserable life long enough to be
slaughtered.

Banning Kentucky fried chicken or other fast food chains would be considered
ludicrous. So, is this.

I eat meat and chicken but I'm well aware where it came from. I've had foie
gras a couple of times. Not crazy about it but I appreciate it.

~~~
jamil7
I can't help feeling a similar way, a small group of wealthy people eating an
obscure, traditional food is an easier target and makes for a much better
story than addressing the elephant in the room that is mainstream factory
farming.

~~~
realusername
It's very far from a "luxury" or "wealthy" item in France, it's something most
families will have on their table at Christmas. I don't know where this false
luxury stereotype comes from.

~~~
benhurmarcel
That's true but then even in France it's not something cheap. It's exceptional
and as you said, basically something you have once or twice a year.

------
jeswin
I was surprised to learn that India is the only country[1] to ban the
production and import of Foie Gras. Very few people would even know about the
dish in India.

But anyway, I hope this torturous practice comes to an end worldwide.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy)

~~~
CaptainZapp
Do you eat meat at all? If so, how were the animals raised, slaughtered and
processed?

This ban seems rather hypocritical to me given the atrocities happening in
mass meat production.

While there are absolutely terrible things happening in Foie Gras production
(I would never, ever buy any products from Hungary, as a for example) the
really good stuff is raised quite humanely.[1]

To me this just looks like an attempt for quick political gain without any
advantage to any factory raised animal (which, for the record, I regard as one
of our biggest moral failings as humans).

[1]
[https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/11/ethical-f...](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/11/ethical-
foie-gras-no-force-feeding-necessary/66261/)

~~~
praptak
It's just a step in the right direction.

~~~
asjw
What is the right direction?

Right by which metric?

~~~
nabla9
Avoid causing pain to sentient beings.

~~~
cies
Lets not forget much lower env impact of eating exclusively in the non-animal
kingdoms.

------
Ecco
Quelle excellente nouvelle ! Ça en laissera plus pour nous :-D

~~~
simonblack
I came here to say the same thing.

But it reads much better in the original French.

~~~
cm2187
I can’t help thinking that this has little to do with foie gras, but is part
of wider push by vegetarians to ban meat eating. You could argue that an
animal had a bad time for any meat.

~~~
seanwilson
> push by vegetarians to ban meat eating

Milk and egg production still involve animals being killed for meat though
e.g. female diary cows are killed for meat when they stop producing enough
milk after a few years and males from diary cows are killed within a month of
being born as veal.

~~~
dkersten
I see no issue with free range eggs from a local keeping chickens (where I
know that they are, indeed, well treated, well kept and free range) since they
lay eggs most days whether you eat them or not and if you don’t use them, they
would rot or attract rodents.

~~~
seanwilson
> I see no issue with free range eggs from a local keeping chickens

\- Male chickens are usually ground up alive within a day of being born
because they're not economical to keep for meat. Locally kept chickens still
feed into this supply and demand as the egg laying hens have to come from
somewhere.

\- Egg laying chickens can live for about 8 years but are usually killed after
2 years when they stop producing as many eggs. This happens at free range
farms too.

\- Also, free range doesn't mean what most people think it does e.g.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range#Free-
range_poultry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range#Free-range_poultry)
"In the United States, the USDA free range regulations currently apply only to
poultry and indicate that the animal has been allowed access to the
outside.[3] The USDA regulations do not specify the quality or size of the
outside range nor the duration of time an animal must have access to the
outside.[4] ... Free-range chicken eggs, however, have no legal definition in
the United States. Likewise, free-range egg producers have no common standard
on what the term means"

> since they lay eggs most days whether you eat them or not and if you don’t
> use them, they would rot or attract rodents.

We bred chickens to lay eggs that often though (wild chickens lay about 10
eggs a year whereas factory chickens lay about 300 which is so much it damages
their health) and for them to leave their eggs unprotected (they've been bred
to not "brood"). They're forced into this cycle.

~~~
dkersten
> free range doesn't mean what most people think it does

That’s why I said local. I grew up in the country and lots of people had a few
chickens. They run around freely and are not “farmed”. They’re almost pets.
They lay eggs all the time, so there’s nothing wrong with eating those eggs.

As for where the hens come from, this is how my parents got hens when they
kept chickens a long time ago: go to your neighbour with a rooster and say
“hey, neighbour, could I get some chicks next time you have some? Thanks”

> Free-range chicken eggs, however, have no legal definition in the United
> States

I don’t live in the US though.

> We bred chickens to lay eggs that often

Ok, but now that they do, what are we to do? Slaughter all the non-farmed free
range chickens to find some wild ones? The damage is done, what’s wrong with
giving them good lives and enjoying their abandoned eggs?

~~~
seanwilson
\- What do they do with the male chickens? About 50% of hatched eggs will be
males.

\- Do they let the chickens live until they die of natural causes? Or do they
kill them before this?

~~~
thrower123
For egg production, usually they are killed as chicks. This can be quite
gruesome in the larger outfits, where they are sorted and the males run
through essentially a woodchipper.

If you have too many adult roosters running around, they act like assholes and
start fighting, pecking eggs, and other nastiness, so you don't want to keep
them.

Meat chickens are usually mixed sex, as they are bred to grow so quickly that
you slaughter them after only two or three months.

Historically, people would castrate male chicks and raise them as capons for
eating, but that's become rather niche.

------
calf
If I were an investor I would ask Hudson Valley and the other specialty farms
to look into GMO and lab-grown foie. Maybe liver is easier to do than muscle
tissue.

Foie tastes like magical butter and it would be wonderful if there was a more
ethical way to have it.

~~~
eurg
There is:
[https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_...](https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_parable?language=en)

He talks about a farmer who is not force feeding the animals, but instead
prepares the grassland such that those animals voluntarily eat themselves into
a fat liver. Taste seems to be superb, for those who eat animals for fun.

------
fxj
In germany there is a labelling system called "Animal Welfare Labelling" where
consumers can choose what they buy.

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tierwohllabel](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tierwohllabel)

For eggs this is even mandatory:

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierkennzeichnung](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierkennzeichnung)

------
anovikov
I enjoy foie gras and i happily live in a place where it's unlikely to be
banned in my lifetime. No nation which has only recently turned to service
economy from agriculture-driven economy and most population grew in the
countryside, will do it, because they know and readily accept that all
agriculture is the torture of animals or it just doesn't pay for itself. Also,
it's just tasty.

------
brillas
I support this, but I’m not sure about its moral groundwork. I’ve never tried
foie gras, and after reading about it I’m increasingly sure I never will. The
fact that I find little pleasure in food delicacies and am thus not affected
in the slightest by this ban makes it hard to sympathize with those who resist
it; It’s just wasteful to me, after all. But someone could just as easily say
that about my leather jackets and my fast fashion, or my snazzy tech purchases
or all those luxuries I thoroughly enjoy. It feels unfair to decide this by a
vote of people who are likely not affected, who don’t reap its value. But how,
then, do we choose what’s right and what’s not?

------
etaioinshrdlu
Well foie gras was a horrifying thing to learn about! This seems hard to
excuse.

~~~
sneak
I encourage you to learn more about it. It is not harmful or painful or cruel,
the animals come willingly to the person who feeds them.

~~~
computerex
The animals are _literally_ force fed with a tube. The animal's liver swells
to many times its normal size. I am not sure what you are talking about. There
is a reason why this practice is controversial to begin with. Do you have any
evidence to the contrary?

~~~
boudin
The actual fact that geese can eat that much and double size (or more) is
natural and necessary for their migration. It's possible to make foie gras by
just letting the goose eating itself. Acording to my parents when they were
living on farms when young, that's the way they were doing it.

Just banning the practice of force feeding would make more sense.

You can find a few things online about those alternative way
[https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=487088946](https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=487088946)

~~~
eurg
Below someone quoted this: "it will be assumed that all foie gras came from
duck or geese that have been force-fed unless “documentary” evidence is
provided to the contrary."

So, non-force-feed remains legal.

~~~
boudin
I had missed that, thanks!

------
gumby
Despite what the article says, the California foo GRAS ban was blocked by the
courts on federal grounds and foi gras is widely available.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_foie_gras_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_foie_gras_law)

~~~
gumby
Sometimes I really hate spell correcting: apologies for "foi gras" becoming
"foo GRAS"

------
ivanhoe
Weird that there seems to be much more debate in US about force feeding geese
than force-feeding prisoners. Not that I support either of the practices.

------
asjw
Meanwhile you can force feed beef and get expensive steaks at any of the fancy
NY steak house downtown

------
sneak
> _Under the law, it will be assumed that all foie gras came from duck or
> geese that have been force-fed unless “documentary” evidence is provided to
> the contrary._

Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the general trend in NYC these days.

~~~
pentae
Or maybe lawmakers are just tired of seeing loopholes abused by unscrupulous
people. It's like banning shark fin, it just gets taken off the menu but can
be ordered in mandarin.

~~~
donw
That may not be the best analogy.

If shark fin is illegal, then being able to order it in Mandarin isn't a
"loophole" \-- it doesn't magically become legal on a technicality.

It's just a means of avoiding enforcement of the law, by making the illicit
activity less obvious.

~~~
pentae
Agreed it was worded poorly.. I didn't mean that as an analogy of "loophole"
but the kind of unscrupulous stuff happening in the food industry

