
Proposed FAA Rule Would Kickstart New Economy for IDing Drones - wglb
https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2019/12/proposed-faa-rule-would-kickstart-new-economy-iding-drones/162130/
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slenk
> “As a pilot, my eye is always on safety first,” FAA Administrator Steve
> Dickson said in a statement Thursday announcing the rule. “Safety is a joint
> responsibility between government, pilots, the drone community, the general
> public and many others who make our nation so creative and innovative.”

How does this make it any more safe? People are still going to fly where they
aren't supposed to and in ways that aren't safe, and this rule won't change a
thing in those regards.

If you're currently using a drone to fly over downtown LA illegally and take
shots, why in the world would you put identifying information on it?

I would also like to know what private companies are getting all this money to
implement a new system? Could they have any ties to individuals within the
FAA? The Commercial Drone Alliance has also been pushing hard, presumably
since it is trying to keep its commercial partners the only operators that can
fly.

To me, the fact they are saying this is for safety, is a very VERY thin
argument.

~~~
CrazyStat
> If you're currently using a drone to fly over downtown LA illegally and take
> shots, why in the world would you put identifying information on it?

Because the proposed regulations make it illegal to sell drones that don't
identify themselves.

~~~
slenk
Build your own. It's easy. I've built 2 myself and have learned from/taught
some of my friends.

I have registered myself with the FAA for their current program, but I know
plenty of people that haven't.

Nor do I want to have to figure out what I need for a TinyWhoop or similar
because every little bit of weight is important at that size.

~~~
jedberg
You can build your own car and drive it around on the streets without a
license plate (or license), but you won't get very far.

~~~
slenk
Yeah if you drive in a busy city. But if you build a car on your farmland and
want to have fun, do whatever you want. And in most states, if its private
property, that is perfectly legal.

Likewise, if I am flying a drone in middle-of-nowhere Michigan on my own
property, why should the FAA care what I am doing?

The problem with the FAA rules is that it is a poorly thought out blanket
statement. If you are flying around downtown LA, yes, you should have a
license because you are putting people's lives at danger with a "vehicle".

They don't make sense to me on private property, and I think that they should
be different depending on city limits.

If we get into some of the autonomous aspects that both cars and drones have,
I think we run into some other gray areas where a blanket policy doesn't fit.

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AWildC182
This seems really contrived... Should be a visual registration number and
ADS-B out for everything over a pound or so like every other aircraft in
existence (per the ADS-B 2020 mandate[1])

[1]some restrictions apply

~~~
opwieurposiu
On page 100 they explain why they do not want to use ADS-B. Basically, ADS-B
does not currently have a way to transmit the location of the control station
and has trouble at low altitudes. Also they are worried about too many drones
saturating the spectrum for manned aircraft ADS-B.

[https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-
inspection.federalregister.g...](https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-
inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-28100.pdf)?

~~~
AWildC182
Why are they worried about the location of the control station?

This seems a lot like regulation for the sake of regulation. The pilots won't
really have access to this information in flight if it's not broadcast on
ADS-B so why even bother? This is an ADS-B problem not a drone one and this is
coming from a pilot rather than a drone operator.

If they're really worried about frequency saturation just broadcast at low
powers so aircraft are notified through the point to point system when they
approach a drone.

~~~
CrazyStat
> Why are they worried about the location of the control station?

So that the cops can find the guy who's buzzing the airport runway with his
drone.

~~~
AWildC182
Which will only effect people who follow the rules?

~~~
CrazyStat
Most people buy commercially available drones rather than building their own,
and it will be illegal to sell drones (over 250g) that don't adhere to the
regulation.

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Rebelgecko
Do these rules make it illegal for hobbyists to fly drones in areas without
internet access?

~~~
opwieurposiu
There are two types of drones > 0.55lbs Standard Remote Identification and
Limited Remote Identification.

Limited Remote Identification will be the cheaper type and can not take off
without an internet connection.

Standard Remote Identification will have equipment to radio broadcast location
data and can take off without internet connection.

See table on page 98

[https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-
inspection.federalregister.g...](https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-
inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-28100.pdf)

Your other options are to fly < 0.55lbs or fly in specially designated areas,
like model aircraft club airfields.

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thecrumb
Joshua Bardwell has a pretty good discussion here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E1aEym-1cQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E1aEym-1cQ)

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oceanghost
Everything I've read and heard about this FAA rule is that it will more or
less crush independent designers and pilots, leaving the skies to commercial
companies.

I feel like this title is trying to spin a very, very bad thing.

~~~
hyperbovine
Bad for whom? Aviation was much safer both for the passengers and the poor guy
on the ground once it became professionalized.

~~~
falcolas
And yet you can still fly under 1,200 feet Above Ground Level (where I am)
without being controlled (Class G airspace). I (personally) feel like hobby
and personal drones fall into this kind of "general use air space" usecase.

~~~
paulmd
That's the part this regulation is taking away, more or less. That airspace is
being given to Amazon for commercial operations.

~~~
falcolas
Crop dusters, paraplanes, paragliders, kite flyers, and amateur rocket
enthusiasts are all going to be mighty disappointed if that airspace is “given
away”.

~~~
paulmd
It strongly appears that the FAA does not care what hobbyists think about it.
The feedback has been near-universally negative and I doubt it will make any
difference at all, any more than the commentary to the FCC changed Ajit Pai's
stance.

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duelingjello
Kid: _flies an R /C airplane at a park._

FAA: “You’re under arrest for unlicensed drone operation!”

Is this sort of scenario we really want? More government control and monetary
extraction from every single, benign human activity? Should kites and paper
airplanes require licenses too?

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falcolas
Perhaps it's just me, but a set of visual identifiers (letters, numbers) with
a certain regulated size seems a lot more viable (and easy to tell if someone
is in violation). They've done it with aircraft for decades.

~~~
reaperducer
Aircraft is a serious industry with serious people. Drones are available in
toy stores. With the exception of JANET, every airline in America properly
identifies its aircraft both visually and with radio beacon ID. They're two
different arenas.

It's harder for the an airspace violator to disable a radio ID beacon on his
drone than to just run a Sharpie over a printed identifier.

You'll never stop the hardcore jerks. But you can dissuade the casual jerk
from misbehaving. The same way locking your car won't stop a real car thief,
but will keep rando handle jigglers from rummaging through your ride.

~~~
falcolas
In class G airspace, you aren't required to have a radio beacon ID. Class G
airspace corresponds to where most drones fly.

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gacklesmom
Thanks, I think I'll continue to disable any outgoing communications, tape
over the lights, and fly from concealed positions.

Just because a government agency that's bought and paid for by rich private
pilots and airlines starts making new laws doesn't mean people are going to
follow them. I've got just as much right to airspace as some asshole in a
Cessna.

~~~
jedberg
Do you also drive unlabeled cars on the streets because you feel that you have
just as much right to the roads as that asshole in a Ford Fiesta who has a
license plate?

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piannucci
Can we have a bounty program for capturing and turning in transponderless
drones? :]

~~~
Filligree
Make sure the bounty is less than the cost of the drone...

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jagged-chisel
"Identifying" drones. This is not about a technology that rhymes with "Eye
Ding Drones."

Edit: I misread - I can't be the only one, so I offered some help.

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Glyptodon
Am I the only one who thinks this kind of regulatory system seems a bit doomed
to fail?

~~~
jedberg
Why? It's like license plates on cars.

~~~
Glyptodon
Cars are huge machines bound to roadways. Despite this people are constantly
driving on suspended licenses, without licenses, without insurance, under the
influence, speeding, etc. Regulating them mostly works because they're limited
to specific spaces, are a huge time and money investment to construct, and so
large they're fairly easy to monitor.

I don't see why the apparent "success" of license plates on cars means
something even more convoluted will work for drones, which come in drastically
different sizes, and are extremely simple to assemble and use.

We seem to recognize that licensing bicycles isn't really a feasible thing,
and licensing tiny objects that move quickly in 3-D space, and which present
even less challenge to assemble than a bicycle, doesn't seem all that likely
to succeed with actors who want to do things outside the system. Or even cover
people who just do stuff without thinking about it.

As technology gets advanced maybe there will be more of a carrot - maybe
registration gets you access to autonomous navigational beacons and traffic
control or something, and you'd prefer to have those things. But operating
what amounts to a large cell phone attached to some electric motors
unregistered seems like it'll always remain trivial for anyone who doesn't
want to cooperate in a way that's not really the case for cars.

