

Properly Molding the Gamer Child - lucumo
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2009/09/properly-molding-gamer-child.html

======
robfitz
I've long thought of Ultima Online (early MMO with a great deal of flexibility
for "antisocial" play) as an absolutely crucial component of my moral and
social education.

Kids can safely experiment with "right" and "wrong" (stealing, murdering,
protecting, sacrifice) without permanent marks. You are damaging someone and
suffering loss, but you've all opted in. I once leapt into combat to help
someone fleeing from a murderer. As soon as I approached, the "victim" drew
his weapon. They killed me and divided up my belongings. Real life doesn't
offer many chances to try different options in that scenario.

Also, the typical authority structure of growing up (which is age-centric) is
reversed. Younger people have less obligations, so generally play more, become
more powerful, and end up in the leadership roles. As a 14 year old guild
leader you're directing a group of 12 to 50 year olds. I don't know exactly
what that does to a person, but my feeling is that it's beneficial.

I haven't really played MMOs in years. I keep an eye on them, and I've been
disappointed by the shift to remove antisocial play by adding new game rules
and protecting players from loss. It's messing up the risk-reward ratio and
removes the chance for social and moral experimentation that was so valuable
to me.

~~~
iron_ball
_As a 14 year old guild leader you're directing a group of 12 to 50 year olds.
I don't know exactly what that does to a person, but my feeling is that it's
beneficial._

Holy _crap_ can I offer some counterexamples. Some of which would skirt the
boundaries of work-safety, such as the 14-year-old raid GM on Earthen Ring who
reportedly made women engage in cyber-sex with him in exchange for privileges.
Not at all limited to his own age group; the internet is good at effacing such
distinctions.

I agree that many teenagers can handle responsibility sooner than western
culture currently assumes -- but there must be oversight and consequences even
then. The highest levels of MMO gameplay/politics, on the other hand, are pure
Lord of the Flies territory.

~~~
robfitz
Sims Online had a big cybersex brothel problem* for... well, always. Since you
can convert virtual currencies into "real" currencies, they had a situation
where presumably underage players were literally being paid for their
services, through their (EA's) service. The girl leading the ring, which grew
into a pretty weird organized crime thing, was 14. I'm not finding the paper
I'm looking for right now, but I think it was by Peter Ludlow if interested.
If she'd chosen to cash out before the game economy crashed, she would have
been an extremely well paid lady.

* A problem for their media image. Presumably added an element of stickiness to the game that wasn't too bad on the bottom line. Also, a pun!

~~~
dmoho
After a bit of searching, I found this link...both interesting and disturbing
at the same time. Turns out that the "girl" that led the ring was actually an
adolescent male:

[http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/12/12/sims_onli...](http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/12/12/sims_online_newspaper/index.html)

------
ulf
"Pokemon provide fulfillment to every human being's basic desire to have an
army of monsters."

alright then...

~~~
tsuraan
Keep in mind jeff is the guy who wrote geneforge
(<http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/geneforge/index.html>).

------
baxter
I'll be honest, any blog post containing the phrase "It is in this way that I
outsource my disciplinary duties to Nintendo." will get an upvote from me. I
urge you not to abuse this.

------
kungfooey
I just had a daughter born yesterday morning, so this article made me very
happy to think that one day I can hone her gaming instincts into a formidable
weapon.

~~~
Jem
Congratulations :)

I recommend this guy's baby diaries if you have the time:
<http://www.ironycentral.com/babymain.html>

I just found them through the linked blog entry, and they're hilarious.

------
amackera
As a kid I was fascinated about historical games (even loose ones), like
Civilization, the Total War series, Europa Universalis, Pharaoh, Age of
Empires, etc.

Of course many of these games only have a loose semblance of reality
associated with them, but I was aware of that! I learned a lot from those
games, and more importantly, I was _inspired_ to learn a lot more.

I can only speak for myself, but my world-view was significantly impacted by
the history presented in these games, and the accompanying reading they
provoked.

------
sireat
Personally, I am very happy that my daughter hasn't expressed much interest in
computer games. I would much rather she engaged in some archaic activies such
as drawing, reading, playing outside.

I am speaking from a bitter experience. If not for 20+ years of computer
gaming(from AppleII to Core2, single turn strategies countless MUDs, MMORPGs),
I would probably be a better programmer or an investor(setting aside lessons
learned trading in Everquest).

If you are prone to addictive behaviours, gaming is better than say smoking or
drinking, but much preferable would be to channel ones energy into productive
addictions(even lifting weights would be better).

------
access_denied
Playing Risk (ok-a-board-game-but-still) told me early on that everything
happens on several levels (strategic, tactic, emotional ect) and you have to
keep an eye on all of them (if you want to win).

~~~
eru
Try `Diplomacy' if you have enough time and people.

~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
And don't mind losing a few friends.

(Yes, I've won several games of Diplomacy. The bitterness can last a while
sometimes.)

~~~
Periodic
I find it fascinating how much reputation and emotions carry over between
games if you play with the same group regularly, and also at the house rules
that develop.

For example, with my brothers and a few of their friends it is entirely
expected that you will get stabbed in the back in a game if it helps the other
guy win. There is a lot of guarding-our-flanks with that crowd. It's totally
normal and expected, however some people have more of a reputation for it than
others, which can lead to some players being unable to make any pacts without
excessive bribery.

On the other hand, my current social peers are paragons of morality. If
someone says something regarding the game, no matter how casually, they will
be bound do that for a reasonable duration. Breaking this code creates a
reputation which will carry over for the next few games and you'll find very
few people willing to ally with you without stringent conditions.

Another odd example is playing multiplayer Magic: the Gathering. Throughout
our time there have been a few decks that may not win often or quickly, but
when they get going they become unstoppable, kill everyone in a single turn,
or create a global effect that makes the game "unfun" for the other players
such as destroying all their creatures and lands. Some of them have gotten
such a reputation that certain players have only to play a certain spell on
their first turn and the rest of the table will immediately focus on killing
that one person first.

~~~
eru
> For example, with my brothers and a few of their friends it is entirely
> expected that you will get stabbed in the back in a game if it helps the
> other guy win.

My fiancée will always put the dagger in my back in games. That's love, I
guess.

