
Daniel Stenberg (curl) has been denied entry to the US for 870 days - tehwebguy
https://daniel.haxx.se/us-visa.html
======
MattyMc
Canada is benefiting substantially from the recent US immigration policies. My
Ai team at Microsoft Canada was stacked with talent, all immigrants, and most
expressed to me that they would have “normally gone to the US.”

I don’t have to remind this community of the laundry list of tech giants
started by immigrants. However, if anyone outside the US is reading this we’d
love to have you in Canada. Come here, please.

~~~
angst_ridden
The current approval time for residency applications is 49 months.

I'm sure it's less for straight-up worker visas, though.

EDIT: I was not sufficiently precise. I'm not speaking of Express Entry /
skills-based applications here. If you have a high score in the CRS system,
you are eligible for other programs which may be much faster.

~~~
trhway
> 49 months

wow. A decade ago Canada specifically targeted H1Bs promising 6 months special
fast trek instead of the typical 18 back then. Interesting why such a change
since then - too many applicants and/or budget cuts?

Edit in response to the comment below: i'm talking about permanent residency -
the points, etc - not just work visa.

~~~
chx
This is not true, do not believe OP, Express Entry review is eight months.

------
svnpenn
If you know Daniel, you know that this is one of the stupidest things the US
government could possibly do regarding immigration. Daniel is literally one of
the most brilliant computer programmers alive today. He created cURL:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CURL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CURL)

A program so ubiquitous that it comes preinstalled on _every_ mainstream OS,
even Windows.

It has bindings for Rust, D, PHP and God knows how many other languages. It
would be the equivalent of blocking a Senator, or say, Fleetwood Mac.

I guess people just don't give a shit about programmers.

~~~
pmiller2
Speaking of "blocking... Fleetwood Mac," a number of hip hop and rap artists
have been denied entry to Canada due to their criminal records. For instance:

> Entry to Canada may be a challenge to those with a record of criminal
> conviction, including celebrities looking to perform in Canada. Many
> rappers, including DMX, The Game, Lil Wayne, Coolio and 50 Cent, have been
> denied entry to Canada and unable to attend their scheduled performances.
> [0]

Of course, one can be denied entry to many countries with a felony record, but
a conviction need not be a felony in the home country for Canada to use it as
reason for denial. If the offense would be considered an "indictable offense"
(the rough equivalent of a felony) _in Canada_ , then they will deny. Among
other things, IIRC, DUI is considered an indictable offense, which causes
issues for a number of celebrities.

\---

[0]: [https://www.duicanadaentry.com/news/rappers-with-criminal-
in...](https://www.duicanadaentry.com/news/rappers-with-criminal-
inadmissibility/)

~~~
refurb
I'm actually completely fine with this. If your average citizen with a felony
can't gain entry, why should we make an exception for a celebrity?

~~~
Scoundreller
And even then, they can still get an exception, it’s just a good idea to get
it in advance through an immigration lawyer. It’s called a TRP:

[https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=152...](https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=152&top=8)

------
dwheeler
This is absurd. I'm a US citizen, so I'll contact my Congressman to have his
staff look into it. I don't have any special power, any US citizen can contact
their congressman, but maybe that will kick-start something.

~~~
jdright
The funny thing is that if he had gone work as a temporary worker in Canada,
two years would have given him permanent resident status. Then two more years
he can become a citizen, then he would be free to enter USA. This would be
faster and better solution overall. But anyways, I don't think it is ever
worth the trouble going there.

~~~
xuki
That’s not how it works. Only U.S. citizens have the right to enter the
country. Canadians can be denied at port of entry.

~~~
Scoundreller
While correct, it’s not clear at what level Daniel has been “banned“. He was
denied an ESTA and told to get a visa, but that hasn’t been denied (yet?).
Canadians need neither, so he might be cool if he showed up at a PoE, or maybe
not.

And a visa/ESTA isn’t required for most Europeans arriving at a land Port of
Entry, so who knows what would happen then. But they do ask more questions
when you don’t have an ESTA.

I guess if the USA wanted to arrest him, they would’ve been very fast at
granting a visa.

------
zxcvbn4038
I had a co-worker whose wife was applying for US citizenship. In the middle of
processing her paperwork the immigration department decided they needed to
paint the office. The story goes - and I believe her lawyer told her this -
the immigrations employees went home one day and the painters came in and
covered all of the desks with plastic. They then took the next two years to
paint the facility. At the end of two years the tarps came off and the workers
returned - with all of their paperwork from two years prior exactly where it
had been left.

Sounds crazy but is somehow believable. I had a similar experience last time I
was at the New York DMV where I handed an agent my papers, he looked at them
for a bit then got up and left without saying a word, he went and had lunch
for an hour, then came back as-if nothing had happened. I had twenty plus
people standing behind me in the same queue. The other queues around us kept
moving, we all stood there for an hour while the guy ate.

------
mdifrgechd
The headline is odd, this has been going on for 870 days, as documented on his
site. It looks like the last update is from 2019. The headline reads like he
cant come in for the next 870 days.

~~~
vageli
> The headline is odd, this has been going on for 870 days, as documented on
> his site. It looks like the last update is from 2019. The headline reads
> like he cant come in for the next 870 days.

Maybe adding "for the last 870 days" would clarify it a bit.

~~~
H8crilA
Or s/for/since/

------
lacker
I’m sad to hear it. A lot of people are denied entry to the US for their
entire lifetimes; I am sad for all of them.

~~~
setpatchaddress
It's getting to the point where one must ask why someone wealthy enough to fly
internationally would want the hassle of entering the US.

It's been bad since 9/11, but it's insane now. I can't imagine the TSA is
treating people better than they did pre-Trump.

Maybe things will be better next year.

~~~
sokoloff
TSA has nothing to do with people entering the US.[0]

CBP is the border police.

[0] - except for perhaps a few airports where you pre-clear and are treated as
a domestic flight (Dublin, Toronto, maybe others)

~~~
gpm
On a flight from Toronto to the US... I don't think I interact with the TSA at
all? I interact with Canadian security in Canada. I interact with US border
control in Canada. I walk out the front door in the states without interacting
with security at all.

I could be wrong about the agencies that some of the people I interact with
work for though.

~~~
sn41
Probably your baggage is scanned at some point, if you have checked-in
luggage.

~~~
gpm
Is it?

By the time it's in the US (i.e. there is TSA around) it's getting off the
plane not on. Why would they bother? Why would they have a pipeline to process
such luggage?

(Of course it's presumably scanned by the Canadian security in Toronto... just
not _the_ TSA).

------
bigtones
One of the most common reason to be denied an ESTA of a Visa to the United
States is because of a criminal conviction or a criminal charge in your home
country. I'm not saying this is the case here, but that is one of the most
common reasons.

Then again, it might be just because he's a "hacker".

~~~
Havoc
Given that his ESTA application previously succeeded a criminal charge seems
unlikely here.

~~~
tmn007
Most countries don't give the USA carte blanche access to their citizens
criminal history unless it is in their interests to declare (I base this on
observations of people who have past criminal convictions yet still get ESTA
approvals and travel to the USA). However, the USA may have become aware of
something that they previously were not aware of.

------
stonogo
Why are all the comments here about immigration? Daniel Stenberg is trying to
visit, not move to the United States.

Having said that, I'm not sure why this is being posted here today, since
there haven't been any updates since his two-years-in blog post some months
back.

------
bfuclusion
$5 says this is stuck in some bureaucratic sinkhole somewhere. Barring a
_good_ reason, I'd much rather have Daniel's brain here in the US than
anywhere else.

~~~
q3k
> I'd much rather have Daniel's brain here in the US than anywhere else.

This sentence strikes me as very odd, and I can't quite put my finger on as to
why. Like - why? Why does it matter? Is this some sort of competition? Is this
like poaching talent into your company? Do you feel pride from sharing a
territory with someone important?

~~~
kortilla
The network effects of intelligent people in your country are positive. On
average, you want their voting behavior, their parenting skills, their risk
assessments, their economic and tax contributions, and their cultural
contributions.

~~~
q3k
It's the 'than anywhere else' part that I have an issue with. If that's the
way you see it, you're doing this at the explicit detriment of everyone
outside your country.

There's ways to grow that 'intelligence pool' locally, without having to see
the rest of the world as just a pool of immigration candidates. Not to
mention, just because someone travels to the US doesn't mean they want to
actually immigrate there...

~~~
Der_Einzige
Maybe you are learning that being actually "nationalistic" (ie maximizing the
prosperity of the nation) implies supporting strong high skilled immigration
pipelines because of the incredible benefits these immigrants have for the
nation and it's native inhabitants.

It's a great irony that those who reject taking the best and brightest are the
"nationalists" and those who want to take the best and brightest are the
"globalists".

~~~
ghufran_syed
The "globalists" are also in favor of illegal immigration, because it provides
them with cheap labor (gardeners, nanny's, construction workers), while never
providing any threat to _their_ livelihood - the illegal immigrants are not
competing for white-collar and professional jobs. The people whose livelihoods
_are_ adversely affected are the poorest people in the US, working unskilled
and minimally skilled jobs

~~~
klyrs
More often than not, I've heard so-called "globalists" being in favor of
substantially open borders so that the immigration you describe would be
_legal_.

------
peterburkimsher
Sorry to say it's a similar story across the entire English-speaking world.
There's a whole group discussing the situation in New Zealand, and there have
been protests. I'm not particularly involved in the activism, but I am in the
queue (since Feb 2019) and watching the group to know when the decision about
my life's future is likely to be taken.
[https://www.facebook.com/groups/297880251255491](https://www.facebook.com/groups/297880251255491)

------
Mandatum
Australia pays very well and has pretty reasonable overlap hours with much of
Asia if you've got family or friends that you want to catch up with virtually.

Probably 90% of my colleagues and customers aren't from Australia (including
me!) so it's pretty welcoming in of Australia (there's obviously still issues
here, but no worse than you'd experience in other Western countries)

Please, we need more talent..

~~~
raihansaputra
But Australia is not making it easy too. I studied and graduated UQ (but only
for a year, so no work for me), and a number of my friends did too and
continued to work in Australia. But it's not easy. Most job openings prefer
PR/citizens. My friends who got a job can only stay for maximum 2/3 years,
with uncertainty related to the point and visa grant system.

If there's a way for me to work in Australia or even get into the work visa
stream without spending AUD100k+ on a 2 yr masters + living costs, I'd
definitely consider it.

~~~
Mandatum
If you're already qualified, it's been slow but easy for my friends to get
sponsored. Yes, it ties you to your employer - but the transfer process
between employers is relatively simple since the recent visa changes, but does
just seem to take forever (even pre-COVID).

My suggestion when applying to large orgs is to not mention your visa status.
It's quite often HR policy not to ask about it until an offer is made, then
you've got a lot more leverage.

But yes, getting that initial sponsor is a royal pain in the butt.

------
phendrenad2
The man responsible for the infamous hacker tool "curl"? Yeah right, he can
just stay where he is. </satire>

------
jacobwilliamroy
The U.S. has a brain drain problem. This is what I was trying to explain to
all my friends who jumped ship after the 2016 presidential election. The only
way to save the U.S. is for all the good people to stay but
"noooooooooooooooo", all the smart people wanted to run off to canada or
germany or whatever.

Please come back. It's getting really bad.

~~~
foolfoolz
your bubble does not represent reality. the u. s. is and has been the
destination for brain drain for decades. and our decades long green card
application list shows it’s not going anywhere

~~~
taneq
Ten years ago the U.S. was the default destination to go and get rich as a
tech worker. Now, I don't think I know anyone who wouldn't have serious
misgivings about moving there.

------
BrandoElFollito
While I appreciate the US as a tourist, the psychopatic, hosile employees at
the border made me change my mind a few times and go spend my euros elsewhere.

Russia was the only other country so openly unfriendly in letting me in.

Seriously, that should be fixed,the US have great places to visit.

------
Havoc
The delay is truly bizarre.

If whatever black box they're using found something wrong presumably it would
just get denied.

Between this type of stuff and TSA shenanigans the USA has definitely dropped
on my places to visit (again) list.

------
stjohnswarts
Please forgive us Daniel, perhaps this national nightmare will be over Jan 21
2021

~~~
vaxman
Yeah, 78 days of tech layoffs due to the public equity market crashing will
drive demand for cheap foreign labor, just as in January 2001. How I miss
having an Indian show up offering every imaginable skill set for $7/hr. How
ironic that the catalyst for that crash was the gov’t finally acting on “old”
Microsoft and 20 years later, they have a technocratic Indian CEO that came of
age in all of that.

~~~
vaxman
Clarifying, market crashed in April 2000 and October 2000, then the shock in
September 2001 before the freeze that lasted until 2006. (I implied Oct ‘99 or
Nov ‘00, but same difference.)

------
anonymouse2019
could try a G-639 FOIA

~~~
non-entity
From what I've heard, you might be waiting for that 870 days later as well.

------
salah93
"did you travel to any arab countries"

