
Makeshift weapons are becoming more dangerous with commercially available kit - edward
http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21699098-makeshift-weapons-are-becoming-more-dangerous-highly-sophisticated?fsrc=scn%2Ffb%2Fte%2Fpe%2Fed%2Fhellskitchens
======
semi-extrinsic
Whenever this type of article appears, presenting a danger-hyping narrative of
how anyone can make weapons using modern technology, I like to point out that
70 years ago Allied resistance fighters were able to manufacture good
submachine guns [1] by the hundreds [2] while under heavy surveillance by ze
Germans.

The Mark III Sten can apparently be built in just four hours in a typical
machine shop.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bror_With](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bror_With)

~~~
Zancarius
I'm not terribly surprised. Submachine guns, being pure blow back firearms,
are probably among the simplest to make with the most difficult component in
the manufacturing process being the barrel. Even the bolt would be relatively
simple given its fixed firing pin, provided it's been appropriately heat-
treated, and everything else is just a matter of springs, stamping (or pipes),
or welding.

I agree with you, though. "Danger-hyping" seems to ignore the fact that in
nearly all cases, many of these weapons aren't new technologies. Modern
techniques and tools may make it easier (or faster), and certainly new
technologies (like drones) expose us to additional risks (but RC aircraft have
been around for decades). It's a trade off we'll always face.

~~~
lifeformed
This may be a naive question, but why is the barrel the hardest part to make?
It looks the most geometrically simple part to make. Does it require a very
high degree of precision?

~~~
CapitalistCartr
Yes, plus making twisted landings is tough. Akin to threading the inside of a
pipe.

~~~
gonzo
It's not that tough. Cutting rifling with a button is done at home from time
to time.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihPFjuxBjPo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihPFjuxBjPo)

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sandworm101
I'm calling shenanigans on the first paragraph and the pic.

>>they use an explosive charge at the bottom of a pipe to hurl a propane
cylinder

That doesn't look like a pipe. That looks like a piece of a field artillery
barrel. The walls are at least two inches thick, and steel. Nobody makes
"pipe" so small with walls that thick. A charge sufficient to throw that
projectile that distance would shatter anything deserving of the label 'pipe'.
We are looking at a piece of artillery perhaps cut down, a "sawed off"
howitzer.

And am I seeing a slight taper? Pipe is always strait. Perhaps this is less an
improvised weapon and more improvised ammo for an actual artillery piece.

~~~
gonzo
> Nobody makes "pipe" so small with walls that thick.

nobody: [http://specialtypipe.com/home/products/heavy-wall-
seamless/](http://specialtypipe.com/home/products/heavy-wall-seamless/)

nobody at all:
[http://www.steeltube.sk/zelpo/vyrobky.nsf/Tab1UK?OpenPage](http://www.steeltube.sk/zelpo/vyrobky.nsf/Tab1UK?OpenPage)

found in < 30 seconds via Google.

~~~
sandworm101
Yes. None of those are close to that in the pic. That chart doesn't even come
close, with a max wall diameter of 16m, probably less than half that of the
"pipe" in the pic.

------
wrong_variable
Its seems like a PR piece to push for money into the military industrial
complex.

Make shift weapon can be built out of anything almost anywhere - they are a
symptom - not a cause

:: angry people -> weapons -> people die

The question is what desperation is driving these people to build these make
shift weapon - just like my kitchen knife will switch to a weapon under the
right circumstances - what is driving these people to turn their mobile phones
into missiles ?

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Aelinsaar
Bullshit. The author of this article should see all of the clever improvised
things the British planned to deploy if the Germans ever made it across the
channel. Take a minute to see what the Vietnamese did with virtually nothing.

At best, this is mindless clickbait, at worst a distraction from important
issues.

~~~
nickpinkston
You're right to point to the long history of improvised weapons, but I'm
unsure what point you're trying to make. Can you elaborate?

~~~
Aelinsaar
There have been more practical, reliable, and proven (and savage for that
matter) improvised weapons, traps, etc than anything in this article. Would
you rather rely on the flame fougasse, and proven methods to draw someone into
an ambush, or a jerry-rigged "weapon"? If you're fighting on the poorly-armed
end of an asymmetrical fight, you do your best by embracing that, not trying
to make field artillery from pipes.

IMO of course.

~~~
joe_the_user
Even if shooting an explosive-packed water heater from a distance doesn't get
you an inch of advantage against the opposing army, even if the civilians
survive, this tactic is good in itself for a given ethnic militia because it
evicts the population of your targeted ethnicity from their homes and
generally terrorized them.

The Syrian conflict has involved targeting civilians on a massive scale. The
various sides aren't _necessarily_ destroying apartment blocks to flush out
the military that might hide there, they are destroying apartments to destroy
them and the civilians that hide there - those civilians aren't fighting and
aren't going to be drawn into any ambush.

Edit: I'm not an expert on how new the various improvised explosive techniques
are but it seem that question is being conflated with the question of what use
improvised artillery would be (terrible against other mobile opponents, good
against civilians, Syria isn't "asymetric" warfare in the usual sense, both
sides have "their" civilians and civilians they want dead or fleeing).

------
jcoffland
This is a bunch of fear mongering to gain readership. We already know people
can and will do bad stuff with new technology. There's very little of value to
read here.

~~~
venomsnake
I am honestly surprised at how little of the potential they have unveiled so
far. We have thought of way more lethal applications over a beer with friends.

~~~
jcoffland
If this were Reddit we could start a thread and list them.

------
hodgesrm
The picture at the beginning of the article brings back memories. I was about
400 yards down the street when the RAF bombed the US Air Forces Europe (USAFE)
HQ building on Ramstein Air Base in 1981. The explosives were packaged into 2
propane tanks hidden in a VW Bus that the terrorists parked in front of the
HQ. It went off at about 7:30am in the morning and left a real mess. Amazingly
nobody was killed.

What's interesting is that only one of the propane tanks actually exploded.
The other tank was blown through the side of the building, leaving a round
hole on the left side of the building entrance between two blown out windows.
(See picture: [1]) I remember standing in front of the building later and
wondering what that hole was. We were told later that the tank contained about
35kg of explosives. If it had detonated it would have destroyed most of that
wing of the building. Propane tanks packed with explosives are fearsome
weapons.

[1]
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Aftermath_of_the_198...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Aftermath_of_the_1981_Red_Army_Faction_bombing.jpg)

~~~
jdeibele
Had to click on the link because I was trying to figure out why the Royal Air
Force was bombing the US Air Force ... Am not familiar with RAF for Red Army
Faction.

------
JoeAltmaier
I'm certain they are not hitting anything with any accuracy with the cannons
described. Its hard to make an accurate weapon.

~~~
steve19
well they hit something, probably civilians living near the target.

~~~
the-dude
Just like regular armies.

------
Animats
People have been making improvised big bangs and hurling explosives in the
general direction of the enemy for a long time. Progress will be when they get
guidance systems that can hit what they aim at.

That's been the big advance in high-end military technology. The bangs aren't
bigger, but they're on target much more often.

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ZoeZoeBee
Who am I supposed to be rooting for in the article?

Besides the title nowhere do they make mention of this commercially available
kit, it reads as DARPA is looking for ideas from people on how to make
improvised devices from commercially available materials, I presume this is in
effort to provide metrics to track and counter measures.

------
known
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
unreasonable man." \--George Bernard Shaw

------
ourmandave
The Texas plumber's pickup truck being used by ISIS all makes sense now.

[http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-12-15/how-texas-plumbers-
tru...](http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-12-15/how-texas-plumbers-truck-wound-
isis-hands)

It was filled with old water heaters bound for Syria!

(I did _not_ see that coming...)

