
Tesla's head of battery engineering exits - fmihaila
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-moves-jon-wagner/teslas-head-of-battery-engineering-exits-idUSKBN1D62OO
======
pwinnski
It's hard not to see this as bad for Tesla.

The one thing Tesla supporters have pointed to more than anything is that
Tesla had a large head-start in battery tech over all of the competitors. So
Chevy is shipping many more Bolts than Tesla is shipping all models combined,
_but_ Tesla's headstart in battery tech and manufacturing would keep them a
contender.

Now their head of battery tech is gone and they've missed model 3 targets by a
very wide margin due to problems with batteries.

I'm not sure how reliable their lead in batteries is right now.

There's still that supercharger network, though. I suspect we'll be hearing
more about that now that other points in Tesla's favor are dwindling.

~~~
rohit2412
I've never understood what their lead in batteries really is. Isn't it well
known that Panasonic manufacturers and supplies battery cells to Tesla?

And cost-wise LG Chem seems competitive enough to Panasonic anyway, keeping in
mind leaked figures for Bolt.

~~~
r00fus
It was that since they secured rights to a key resource for it's products.

It's essentially the Apple move - by outmaneuvering competitors on key
resources it allows higher margin or products that others can't even create.

~~~
rohit2412
That is even more unbelievable. What are they implying, nobody else will
manufacture batteries?

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-28/china-
is-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-28/china-is-about-to-
bury-elon-musk-in-batteries)

~~~
elihu
If Tesla has an adequate supply of cells for their needs (due to contracts
with Panasonic and their own factory), but other car manufacturers have to
compete with each other on the open market for a supply of cells that is
inadequate for high-volume production, then that's a big advantage for Tesla
in the short/medium term. They can focus 100% on electric, whereas the major
manufacturers will have to stick mostly with gas and hybrids for the majority
of their revenue.

If China were to produce many times more cells than Tesla, we could still have
a major battery shortage for most of the world's auto manufacturers.

------
PascLeRasc
I'm graduating with my BS in EE next month and I've been applying to lots of
places working on battery technology since it's incredibly interesting to me,
but I have no idea how anyone becomes a "specialist" in that field. Everything
I've learned has been outside of class, and there aren't any offered in my
department or in Materials Science or Chemistry, and a few of my friends at
top-tier schools like CMU and Purdue have said the same thing. It seems so
critical for everything from energy grids during natural disasters to
environmentally friendly material sourcing/disposal. I hope schools start
focusing on it.

~~~
DigitalJack
I’m an EE doing asic design. Everything I do for a living I learned outside of
school. Aside from the basics like reading/maths etc.

~~~
throwaway613834
Huh, this is hard to swallow. What digital EE courses did you take in school?

~~~
DigitalJack
Fair point, I had one class called logic design. It was my favorite, although
I hated breadboarding 7400 logic.

The class was mainly Boolean algebra with some flip flops thrown in at some
point. If I recall correctly that was my sophomore year.

There was next to no digital in my courses. Heavy on math and analog circuits.
I think that one class on digital logic was it.

~~~
throwaway613834
> Fair point, I had one class called logic design. The class was mainly
> Boolean algebra with some flip flops thrown in at some point.

Yeah that explains it. :-) So nothing about writing Verilog, feedback
pipelining, adder design, clock skew, and stuff like that? Because those are
the kinds of things I'd expect in a digital logic course (if one were
available) and I would be shocked if you didn't need to know those concepts
for a job in ASIC design.

~~~
PascLeRasc
We've got all that in an Advanced Digital Design course, but you have to be
pretty far down a class path to take it so most students don't.

~~~
throwaway613834
> We've got all that in an Advanced Digital Design course, but you have to be
> pretty far down a class path to take it

How far down? I wouldn't expect it to be popular but I also wouldn't expect it
to have a long prereq chain (a sophomore-level course on computer architecture
seems enough?)... it doesn't seem like analog which is where you _actually_
need a long prereq chain to get anywhere.

> so most students don't

Most students... in EE? Or most students planning to do digital design after
graduation?

------
maxander
So either he was "asked to leave" (fired) for somehow being responsible for
the battery issue that was the rate-limiting factor for Model 3 production, OR
he was being leaned on so hard by management to fix the problem that he left
for work-life-balance reasons (ragequit.)

Either way, he gets to put in his expertise to found a new company in one of
the hottest technologies there is in 2017, probably becoming rich by selling
Tesla's own upgraded tech back to it, as well as to everyone else in the
electric car race. All while not having Elon Musk looming over his shoulder.
Not bad!

~~~
leggomylibro
It sounds like the battery issues aren't even completely within Tesla's
control - you try sourcing that much lithium!

...seriously, I'm sorta worried about our continued access to enough lithium
for all this electric technology that's rapidly emerging. Counterarguments?

~~~
rsynnott
Current world production is only 36,000 tonnes per year. Chile alone has 7.5
million tonnes known reserves. So 200 years of current requirements, known, in
one country.

And the lithium doesn’t just go away. Lithium batteries can be recycled,
though in practice it is currently often cheaper to just mine more lithium.

~~~
starky
The values I heard some years ago (~10) was that there were well over 1000
years of known lithium reserves even when assuming some truly impressive rates
of electric vehicle production and zero recycling.

------
dgritsko
Interesting, given last week's reports of Model 3 production being
bottlenecked due to battery supply issues. Is his departure the result of him
being held responsible for these issues? Or did he decide to leave of his own
accord, and if so, why? Either way, I'd like to hear some more details.

------
erikb
Let's just appreciate this rare piece of news. All the information presented,
without interpretation, no fuss or ads around the post (maybe due to
adblocker, don't know). Clean and simple. This is way, waaay, too rare.

------
djtriptych
I've been describing Tesla as a "battery company" for a while now; it's
essential for their solar roof and electric car businesses.

This makes me nervous as an investor..

~~~
chmaynard
Does that mean you weren't nervous before now? I got nervous a long time ago.
I sold my modest investment in Tesla and got my Model 3 pre-order deposit
back. I sleep much better now..

------
avar

        > [...] joined the company in January 2013,
        > was involved in developing technology
        > for all of Tesla's cars [according to
        > his LinkedIn profile]
    

He joined after the Roadster went out of production, which had a proprietary
Tesla powertrain, so this doesn't seem like an accurate summary, the Model S
was also introduced half a year before he started in mid-2012.

~~~
greglindahl
The Roadster had the 2.0 update after he joined.

~~~
djrogers
3.0 - 2.0 was much earlier.

------
mikeryan
Does Tesla use European style "Director" designations for VP/Senior Execs?

For Tesla I'd be surprised if the "Head of Battery Engineering" was only a
"Director" level position in US style corporate ladders?

------
return0
Was he discharged?

~~~
fsargent
I see what you did there.

------
agumonkey
Some articles reported the Model 3 delays were about the Fremont car assembly
plant, but this hints at the Gigafactory being the bottleneck. If both are
stuck/dead it's gonna smell bad. I wish Musk finds the help needed to at least
"land" the project as smooth as his rockets.

~~~
itengelhardt
In the investors call last week Tesla stated that the problem is at the
Gigafactory with battery production.

Here's a link to a summary of conference call:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/7ao4m0/conferenc...](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/7ao4m0/conference_call_confirms_teslas_model_3_faces/)

That forum is quite anti-Tesla (as opposed to /r/teslamotors). The whole Tesla
thing is quite controversial - lots of haters, lots of fanboys.

Best advice I can give you: Read what both sides have to say and weigh the
arguments. Then just stick with the truth you've always believed in - it's
what everyone does in 2017 ;-)

~~~
agumonkey
I just read the story of William Browder (putin's nonfriend) that's indeed
what I ended up doing.

Thanks a lot for the report, I guess I misinterpreted what article said about
which factory the problems were happening.

------
supernovae
Didn't Toyota just announce their new battery tech due in 2022? Solid state
batteries with short/fast recharge time? Maybe this engineer didn't have
anything up his sleeve to get there before toyota

~~~
nihonde
Japanese automakers are circling their wagons. Toyota, Mazda, and Denso are
collaborating in a JV, with Suzuki expected to join. Toyota leadership is
demanding longer range and faster charging batteries from the alliance
engineers. The important markets in play are US, China, and South Asia
(including India).

~~~
bgarbiak
Mazda and other partners won't get solid state batteries from Toyota. They
cooperate on a shared platform for EVs, not on the batteries tech.

Source: [http://www.thedrive.com/tech/15514/toyota-wont-share-
solid-s...](http://www.thedrive.com/tech/15514/toyota-wont-share-solid-state-
batteries-with-tech-partner-mazda)

~~~
nihonde
You're right. I wonder how the alliance partners will handle charging
stations. I know from living in Japan that Nissan chargers are at nearly every
dealership lot, and many parking garages have charging areas.

------
free_everybody
Can anyone explain what the rules are regarding the head of battery
engineering leaving Tesla to make similar batteries on his own? Wouldn't it be
IP theft if he tried copying the tech he developed at Tesla?

~~~
wand3r
not if he copies all their designs but intends to sell his fake startup to a
competitor shortly after a few announcements

~~~
free_everybody
Haha, what could possibly go wrong?

------
ballenf
If his pay was in any way tied to productivity, he was probably taking a big
hit. Regardless of fault.

------
dogruck
Let’s be real — he was probably asked to leave.

~~~
jbob2000
> he is launching a battery and powertrain startup in California

I'm betting Tesla couldn't pay him enough and he's starting his own shop to
sell to the other major auto manufacturers.

~~~
samstave
Plus didn’t Tesla state that all their patents were open source, so there is
no IP precluding him from doing such...

~~~
katastic
How about a non-compete agreement?

~~~
apendleton
Aren't they invalid in California?

------
draw_down
It really seems like they are struggling lately. Hope they turn things around

~~~
jaimex2
Sounds like production hell.

