

Ask HN: Keyboard Recommendations? - d4ft

Hi all-<p>I am currently in the market for a new keyboard.  I do a fair amount of hacking and am looking for suggestions for comfortable, reasonably priced options.<p>So, what say you?
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humbledrone
I am in love with my Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000. Of course, if
you don't like split keyboards, it is probably not for you. The two things
like like about it most are the soft faux-leather palm wrest (very comfy), and
the negative slope shim that it comes with. The shim makes the keyboard
incline away from you slightly, which I find provides a more comfortable wrist
angle.

There is, for me, one downside. I hate the F-Lock key with a passion. It turns
the F keys into stupid M$ buttons when it is toggled on. For me, as a Linux
developer, this means that my hotkeys start doing crazy stuff whenever I bump
the F-Lock key. I really should get around to popping it off the keyboard.

Other than that, it is a good solid keyboard. I work on this thing for around
10-14 hours a day, and it has been pretty easy on my wrists.

~~~
MikeW
I hate the Microsoft Natural 4000 so much - I have one here. Apart from the
split layout there's not much for me to recommend.

Problems I've faced on it are: 1) Long spacebar with pressing mechanism in the
centre. Pushing from the side (where my thumb is) creates a slight resistance
in the centre plastic which then causes a louder clack when it gives way. This
is noticeable when working in a silent room, and noticeable on my fingers.

2) Too much key travel on all keys - when I went back to typing on my mac
after using my 4000 for 6 months, I couldn't believe how much more relaxed my
fingers were after not having to press _so far down_ with the keys.

I think the MS Natural 4000 keyboard is designed for people who aren't aware
of their fingers but think they're getting ergonomic benefits just from a
split keyboard with a faux-leather palm rest. I tried many of these MS 4000
keyboards and they all had the same design that I consider to be a flaw.

~~~
humbledrone
I'm actually quite aware of my fingers. I have been playing piano, banjo, and
several other instruments on a fairly regular basis for around 15 years now.
If that doesn't make me "aware of my fingers," I'm not sure what would.

I don't see why having to press a key down slightly farther is necessarily a
problem. If your forearms and wrists are in a comfortable position, it doesn't
much matter how far your fingers have to move. In fact, I tend to think that a
bit more movement is actually helpful with circulation.

You're entitled to your opinion of the keyboard, but I think it was just
downright rude to say that the keyboard was designed for unaware sheeple like
me.

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mechanical_fish
My Kinesis Advantage meets at least one of your criteria. ;)

<http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm>

And given that I spend so much of my life in front of a keyboard, I'd argue
that the Kinesis _is_ reasonably priced, for me. But your mileage may vary.

~~~
jimmyjim
I would purchase it in a heartbeat (despite its humongous pricetag) if it had
dead keys. I live in the US, but speak other languages as well -- to put
accents on certain letters, I need to use dead keys.

~~~
nrr
I've gotten around this by enforcing that kind of thing in software by using
the US-International layout.

I speak English and German, so while I _can_ transliterate ä, ö, ü, and ß, I
don't particularly want to. Instead, I just type AltGr+q, AltGr+p, AltGr+y,
and AltGr+s. There are dead keys for other diacritics.

~~~
jimmyjim
But there isn't an AltGr key on that keyboard! I actually have AltGr mapped to
my right alt. There's only one alt keyboard in that key

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roundsquare
Sorry, this isn't very helpful, but I thought I'd take this opportunity to
show the world this keyboard:

<http://www.walyou.com/img/datahand-keyboard.jpg>

Actually, I did have a coworker who used this. He typed absurdly fast with it.
However, whenever someone else wanted to use his computer, he went on a search
for a regular keyboard.

~~~
jodrellblank
I was a fan of this for ages, then I bought one from ebay.

Good things: It's a great design and it's easy to pick up since it's a lot
like wrapping the top and bottom qwerty lines up around your fingers - the
same fingers for many of the same keys, but no chance of misreaching and
mashing two keys. The keys are magnetically held, and you push them out
through an optical sensor - so there is a definite feel of breaking the
magnetic grip, but you aren't whacking your fingers into a solid stop like a
normal keyboard.

Bad things: The one I have is old and emulates a serial mouse, and Microsoft
took serial mouse support out of Vista. The mouse emulation is serviceable but
not brilliant. It's slightly awkward to extract your hand to reach for a mouse
without pressing keys. You can't type one handed and hold a mouse/phone/mug of
tea. No numeric keypad.

At work, the need for a mouse and phone made it awkward, at home I don't type
enough solid blocks of text on a desktop computer (it's not much good for
laptop use either).

I still like it and like the idea, but it's in a box, unused, because it's
mildly inconvenient.

~~~
frig
Another point of experience: out of the box it is pretty poor if you work on
the macintosh; by default there's nothing mapped to "command" and there're not
enough "keys" on it to remap anything to command without giving up something
else you probably need (like shift or alt or control).

You can work around this with a footswitch but it's another point to keep in
mind.

Mine suffered a similar fate to yours: in a box, awaiting some future period
where I have enough downtime to ride out a month or two of reduced typing
speed to train myself.

------
joe_bleau
IBM Model M. Noisy as hell, built like a tank, best tactile feedback around
(due to the buckling spring technology). Currently made and sold by Unicomp
(<http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net>).

------
makecheck
I've really come to like Apple's default keyboard; the keys are extremely
flat, spaced apart, and almost silent. Although, the function keys are half-
sized for no good reason.

~~~
matthewking
The apple keyboard is my preference too, but the wired one with the numpad! I
have no idea why they didn't make a wireless one with a numpad :(

------
fuzzythinker
The kensington slim type is the best kb I ever had out of my 18 yrs or so of
computer usage. It's tactical feel best even the Lenovo laptop keypad. It is
one of few kbs that has 4.5 stars rating from 100+ users on amazon. It's also
one of few kbs that is not a mile wide. I just wish they just drop the numpad
all together, or at least make a version that did.

My only quest in finding a better kb is to find a relatively good kb that
doesn't have the numpad (I dislike extra travel space to the mouse).

I don't think there are any good kb for < $60 that drops the numpad. I had
some el cheapos from Fry's that didn't have the numpad, but they aren't as
good and the key placements are not the normal settings. The apple kb is no
where near as good as the slim type for me, and it doesn't have delete key and
it's well over $60. The only ones I know are ones like logitech makes that
comes with kb and numpad separated, but they are close to or over $100.

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SwellJoe
I use a couple of small form-factor IBM keyboards I bought on sale for about
$10 each a few years ago...looks like the Rapid Access III is the current
model that looks pretty much the same, and they sell for ~$50. IBM
historically makes really solid keyboards with a nice feel. The small form-
factor brings Esc and Del/Home/PgUp/PgDn closer to the home row, without
losing the number pad.

They're about five years old now, and probably due for replacement (they still
work fine, but five years worth of heavy use tends to make keyboards kinda
gross and key labels fade and such). I looked at the new Apple keyboards when
I was at the Apple store with a friend, and for the first time in my life felt
a pretty strong desire for an Apple product. They _look_ amazing. I'm not sure
I'll actually like it better than the IBM for long term use, though. But I
suspect that'll be my next keyboard, at least to give it a try.

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weaksauce
The microsoft internet keyboard has all the trappings of the perfect keyboard.
(except it is not USB.) The arrow keys are in the preferred upside down tee,
it has a huge delete button, the home and end keys are in the correct logical
left to right order, the page up and page down are in the correct up and down
configuration. Split keys are there for ergonomics and it is fairly cheap.

[http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off...](http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&q=microsoft+natural+multimedia+keyboard&cid=16650197810230819705&sa=title#p)

I don't know about those sellers but that is the keyboard that I love.

------
Riley
I've been really happy with my Das Keyboard Professional. I've been using it
as my main keyboard since it was first released about 15 months ago.

[http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard_original_professional...](http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard_original_professional.php)

The only downside is the $129 USD price. You'll have to decide if it's
"reasonably priced". I got nice discount on a pre-order, but at this point I
would gladly pay more. This thing doesn't show any signs of ever dying on me
though.

Update: I just checked and it's actually on sale right now for $109 USD.

~~~
cnvogel
I own a older version of "das Keyboard" which is actually a Cherry-G80 OEM
(which I also own, and a unnamed clicky DEC Alpha Workstation PS/2 keyboard).
They all give great feedback and I prefer them for typing larger amounts of
text. Of course they are absurdly lound, and I'm happy that my coworkers don't
complain (too much).

On the other hand, I detest keyboards that only use a soft rubbery membrane
that feels like I'd dip my fingertips into honey (which is basically every
keyboard that nowadays is shipped with cheap systems). While it may sound
illogical, using those for anything larger than a simple blog-post and my
hands begin to hurt. Maybe because the lack of feedback makes me assume a
unhealthy hand-posture?

~~~
Raphael
I love the old clicky keyboards. The ergonomic split keyboard feels like mush
and these laptop keys are too slick. I do like the latest chicklet Apple
keyboards. I went in with the expectation that it would be weird and
unenjoyable, but I acclimated quickly and achieved incredible typing speed.

------
rudin
"I know why you're here, d4ft. I know what you've been doing … why you hardly
sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night, you sit by your
computer. You're looking for it. I know because I was once looking for the
same thing. And when it found me, I realized I wasn't really looking for it. I
was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us, d4ft. It's the
question that brought you here. You know the question, just as I did."

"What is the ultimate keyboard?"

"The answer is out there, d4ft, and it's looking for you, and it will find you
if you want it to"

------
nrr
Kinesis Freestyle. I bought mine for $90 from an online retailer, and I turned
around and bought the VIP kit for another $40.

In retrospect, I wish that I would've spent the extra bucks on the longer
cable connecting the two pieces together. There're nuts on the underside of
the thing that look like they'll accept screws for mounting it to half-assed
hardware for attaching it to, e.g., a chair.

------
mbrubeck
I really like IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad keyboards, mainly for the trackpoint
("pencil eraser" mouse device), which requires less hand movement than a
typical trackpad, mouse, or trackball.

They have an external USB version for desktop use:
<http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=2364>

~~~
silentbicycle
Cool. I wish the trackpoint was available on any of the split keyboards...

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jacquesm
I have an old SGI keyboard that I'm totally partial to. The previous one died
about a year ago and I searched high and low for another, finally buying a
complete indy just for the keyboard.

It's heavy, sturdy and doesn't move around on the desk when I type.

You'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands if you want it though :)

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hyyypr
I recommend the happy hacking keyboard professional 2.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard>

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urlwolf
for anyone interested in getting the best keyboard possible, check
http//:geekhack.org. Nowhere on the net will you find more keyboard knowledge.

I have + ~5 keyboards. Using a kinesis contour now.

