
Efficiency, Imported From Europe - joshrotenberg
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/automobiles/efficiency-imported-from-europe.html?ref=automobiles&_r=0
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Maarten88
I always wonder why these big V6 engines are still so common in the US. I'm
driving a 2 liter diesel in a BMW X3 (a heavy car, 4wd, automatic) and still
get 34 mpg. The 2 liter engine is plenty powerful for this big car. Too
powerful maybe, looking at the speeding tickets I got with this car since I
have it.

A modern 3 liter TDI is crazy powerful. I really see no practical use case for
those engines, other than engaging in speeding contests between Audi's, BMW's
and Mercedeses in the leftmost lane of the autobahn. And since there is no
autobahn in the US, why do they buy them? I think for normal cars, 1.6 - 2.0
liter 4 cylinder is enough.

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sliverstorm
V6 engines are typically smoother and produce more torque down low in the
powerband, which is the range most people drive. So even though the peak
capabilities are overkill, basically, an engine capable of 160mph is nicer to
drive at 65mph than an engine capable of 85mph. As a result, they are
desirable to many consumers. Tiny 4 cylinders are catching up, but that's the
thing- it has _always_ been a game of catchup for the 4 cylinder.

Oh, and further in defense of the V6- remember not everyone has the same needs
as you. I have recently come to own a 4.0L V6. Ridiculous, right? Twice as
many liters and twice as many cylinders as I ought to need. Except, at
12,000ft you've suddenly got a lot less engine. My old 2.2L H4 at-speed
required pedal-to-the-metal to gain speed, and 4k+ RPM just to maintain speed.

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Maarten88
Diesel engines have lots of torque, at low rpm. My 2.0d has 280 lb-ft, the
same as a 3.7 V6 mustang, at half the rpm.

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sliverstorm
Certainly! But for better or worse, America's cars are still mostly gasoline-
powered. Diesel isn't just a simple add-on like satellite radio, it is a
paradigm shift.

Also remember that the V6 is a compromise of many factors. Besting a V6 in one
specific regard doesn't mean much, because a V6's strength is that it achieves
many different goals, all at the same time- even if it isn't the best at any
one thing.

I don't mean to say a gasoline-powered V6 will always be the only option, or
anything like that. But it is interesting to learn the various reasons they
are as popular as they are, and it is instructive in how the auto industry
operates.

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revelation
The government is not subsidizing diesels because it's yet another combustion
engine. Other than the quoted "industry representatives" want you to believe,
diesels produce plenty of carcinogenic, extremely difficult to filter
particles. If anything, the government should be taxing these cars 10+ grand
for the extra costs they will incur in the health system down the road.

~~~
sliverstorm
Diesel is also in no conceivable way a new technology, and from what I know
it's rare established hundred-year-old technologies that have been used in
consumer products for at least fifty years are given generous subsidies.

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snowwindwaves
Diesel used to be significantly cheaper than gasoline. I believe the price has
gone up due to increased demand or less supply. Diesel is less refined than
gasoline, and I believe the refineries in the USA are optimized for producing
more gasoline than diesel and to change this is not a small or cheap task.
There would be pressure from the transport industry, eg trucking, shipping,
rail, to keep the price of diesel as low as possible, and restricting demand
by restricting the availability of diesel vehicles would be one way.

I would love to get a small pick up truck with a diesel engine - you can't buy
one in North America today.

I had several 1980 era Toyota Land Cruisers, a 2500 kg 4WD vehicle, and they
got 30 MPG. I literally drove from regina to calgary, 800km, on one tank,
which was 84 litres.

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te_chris
That mileage doesn't seem that good to me. I've got a petrol honda accord,
it's a 2.2 L and I can drive auckland to wellington (just over 650 km) on a
55L tank. My friends with diesel golf's can do Auckland to Wellington and
nearly halfway back on one tank though.

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nnethercote
So the diesel mileage isn't that good, except for the part where it's
significantly better? Thanks for explaining.

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thrownaway2424
Roger. My TDI Golf regularly gets more than 50 MPG on highway trips and
averages 36 in our driving which is almost exclusively urban, easily more than
the sluggish Honda Fit it replaced.

Unfortunately the VW and Audi still suffer from reliability problems. Two
friends both with TDI VW cars suffered (Bosch) fuel pump failure that
destroyed their engines to a large degree and cost about $6000 to repair.

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harrytuttle
I'm in the UK and I've have a couple of vehicles, both European and both
diesel. Not VW! They are great. I wouldn't buy anything else. Fuel here is
expensive so it's a good idea to keep it simple.

I had a 2006 Citroen C3 diesel. Even with the air con on full whack, I could
get 64mpg out of it on an average ~60mph journey. In London traffic, I got
52mpg out of it.

I now have a 2006 Fiat Doblo 1.3 diesel van/people carrier. This is a much
larger vehicle but it's genuinely hard not to get at least 46mpg out of it
with 5 people and a load of crap in it. On my own, 58mpg.

The latter had a timing chain replaced for around £500 but apart from
consumables, no problems in several years.

I really don't get it when I see someone in a Dodge Ram (suddenly become
popular in the UK?!?) hammering it up the motorways with no load or
passengers.

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barking
FIAT, fix it again tomorrow. Fiats have a lousy reputation and this is
deserved in my experience. Also Puntos are the car I see most often abandoned
by the roadside

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sergiosgc
Fiat produces quite reliable engines. Their multijet engines are unbeatable in
the small gasoline engine class (1-1.2l). The JTD engines, while not Mercedes-
quality, fare better than VW's TDIs.

Now, if you are talking about electrical wiring problems in their cars, I'll
have to concede. It's the XXI century, and they still can't get wiring right.

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vmarsy
While diesel high MPG cars are not new in Europe, with for instance the VW
Bluemotion [1] , it is not necessarily better than unleaded gasoline.

It's true diesel rejects less CO2 than unleaded gasoline cars but it also
rejects more NO2 and has some unhealthy particles [2].

So diesel is good for people who drive hundreds of miles in big landscapes,
but in cities and suburb, investing in better unleaded/hybrid cars seems
wiser.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueMotion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueMotion)

[2] [http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/world-health-
organization-...](http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/world-health-organization-
says-diesel-exhaust-causes-cancer)

~~~
toyg
I have a diesel VW Golf BlueMotion 1.6 from 2011. Sticking to the motorway at
70mph (which is what I originally bought it for) it really burns less than
72mpg, it's fantastic; in the more prosaic stop/start city commute, it
averages out around 50mpg. Still, I spend less than £1k in fuel per year, and
it's quite a win.

I really, really wanted a hybrid, back then; but the price of a Prius in the
UK was ridiculously high (haven't checked recently), and on long motorway
trips it likely wouldn't have paid off.

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switch007
It's a win in fuel costs, yes, but you need to compare total motoring costs
when choosing petrol vs diesel.

£1k/year means you do about 10,000 miles a year? That's typically not enough
to justify diesels with a DPF. (Short journeys are not sufficient to clean the
DPF)

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toyg
I do infrequent but very long trips, so that shouldn't be a problem.

