
Richard Stallman calls Ubuntu “spyware” because it tracks searches - geetarista
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/12/richard-stallman-calls-ubuntu-spyware-because-it-tracks-searches/
======
droithomme
Reading what he is talking about, Stallman's description is absolutely
correct. If I am doing a desktop search for local files, it is not be
expectation that that search will be transmitted to servers without my
consent, and that it does so makes it spyware even if we don't also take into
consideration that it is being done to track my interests for monetary gain in
the form of referral links. Good on him for calling attention to this
functionality.

~~~
Irregardless
> Use Super-A. You can tell Unity exactly what you want to search. And in
> future you’ll be able to do that from the home lens, too, more easily than
> the current Lens Bar at the bottom of the Dash.

From <http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182>

It sounds like they're working to expand the search functionality with users'
best interests in mind, not adding advertisements as everyone seems to think.

> it is being done to track my interests for monetary gain in the form of
> referral links

They're just search results, not ads. Read the blog post from Shuttleworth.

~~~
droithomme
Thanks. The article states _"If a user buys something from Amazon as a result,
money is sent to Canonical in the form of affiliate payments."_ Is the article
in error, or has the behavior changed in response to criticism, or do the
amazon links have Canonical affiliate codes?

The last seems to be the correct answer - affiliate links are used. I see no
evidence Stallman is incorrect and the Shuttleworth blog article does not say
they don't use affiliate links.

[http://askubuntu.com/questions/192725/how-do-i-make-sure-
tha...](http://askubuntu.com/questions/192725/how-do-i-make-sure-that-
canonical-get-affiliate-benefits-when-i-buy-from-amazon)

> _The Amazon affiliate referral happens if you've arrived at the Amazon
> property via a 'tagged' link. Both links clicked via the dash which go to
> Amazon sites, and the shortcut in the launcher will add the tag. The tag
> adds a cookie which lasts for 24 hours. If you buy anything during that
> period, Canonical will get some affiliate revenue._

~~~
Irregardless
I'm actually not sure after reading both again -- Shuttleworth seems to imply
that they're not doing this for money, but he doesn't explicitly say it.

Either way, these search results are distinctly different from the ads in the
launcher that people were talking about a couple weeks ago, but everyone seems
to be mixing the two up.

Both can be easily disabled, though. And searching your own machine is still
an option.

~~~
white_devil
> Shuttleworth seems to imply that they're not doing this for money, but he
> doesn't explicitly say it

What else would Amazon referrals be about, if not money?

~~~
lotu
You can do things for more than one reason. They can think these results will
be beneficial to users _and_ help keep Canonical solvent.

~~~
nvmc
I find it very hard to believe that anyone, let alone the presumably
technologically proficient people at Canonical, would actually think that
sponsored search results are useful. When was the last time anyone clicked a
sponsored Google result?

------
joejohnson
Richard Stallman is absolutely correct in calling this spyware. At the very
least, this "feature" should be off by default.

~~~
tjic
God, it pains me to click the "upvote" button on a comment that begins
"Richard Stallman is absolutely correct", but the second sentence was so
correct that I had to. ;-)

~~~
rickmb
RMS is usually correct. Annoying, offensive, unpragmatic, undiplomatic and
confrontational, but in the end he's usually right in his basic analyses of
the problem. Often well before anyone else even recognizes there is a problem.

~~~
jeremyjh
No. He's completely off his nut about blobs, cloud computing and a host of
other topics. Very few people use a distribution that he doesn't have issues
with.

~~~
lhnn
Your third sentence doesn't support your second.

I use closed source software, but that doesn't mean I think he's wrong on his
overall analysis of its downsides.

------
w1ntermute
For those who want to avoid this crap, there's a simple solution: come to
Xubuntu. You can avoid spyware and at the same time get a simple,
straightforward desktop UI without any modern "tablet" or "phone" UI
flourishes: <http://i.imgur.com/6fF0C.png>

~~~
mintplant
Or, you know,

    
    
        sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping

~~~
josephlord
But the point is the fact that Canonical made the decision to enable this by
default breaks my trust in them. What are they going to do next? How am I
going to monitor to make sure I know what I need to remove/disable/opt-out of
next? If I choose an Ubuntu variant how do I monitor them to check that they
aren't adding any of the parent undesirable features.

That is why when I decide to change from 12.04 it will almost certainly be to
another distro. Maybe I need to give the parent distro a try (Debian).

------
arunc
When money overtakes morale it becomes Ubuntu. Since long Ubuntu has been
trying to avoid the Linux identity. Its a good call from Stallman bringing out
Ubuntu's real motive is/will be few years down the line.

Switched to Arch Linux since 2008 (that's when Ubuntu was spelt around the
globe) and I'm happy about the decision.

~~~
mylittlepony
Can you recommend me a setup for using Arch as a desktop? Eg: which UI should
I install?

Do things like sound, video, usb, etc work fine?

~~~
w1ntermute
> Can you recommend me a setup for using Arch as a desktop? Eg: which UI
> should I install?

xmonad is probably the best option.

> Do things like sound, video, usb, etc work fine?

USB works by default. I'm not sure why people even ask this anymore.

You will have to configure sound (easy, usually works by default) and video
(not too bad these days) yourself.

Keep in mind that the Arch Installation Framework (an ncurses-based installer)
has been deprecated, as of earlier this year. That means you will have to
follow the Installation Guide[0] to manually set up the system from a live
command line, Gentoo-style.

0: <https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_Guide>

~~~
mylittlepony
Thanks!

------
blahedo
Relatedly, the default Ubuntu install of Firefox (including in the *ubuntus,
like Xubuntu) ensure that everything you type into the location bar (even if
you know exact URLs and don't plan to search!) is sent to Google, Wikipedia,
and various other websites. The only way to turn it off, afaict, is to
uninstall the Ubuntu extensions from Firefox---which is not at all obvious.

~~~
ThePinion
Any way you have some proof? I At this point I honestly don't doubt it, but
I'd like to see some technical data.

~~~
blahedo
Just personal experience. When I installed Xubuntu 12.10 (not an upgrade---it
was on a machine previously running MacOS only), every time I started to type
a URL into Firefox's location bar, the popdown list would include not only
history and bookmarks, but results that you'd get from searching google and
wikipedia for the sequence of letters typed so far. It updated after every
keypress. In the Firefox preferences, the only relevant config option (that I
found) was to suggest either/both/none of history and bookmarks, but turning
that to "none" meant you _only_ got the search results. Turning off the Ubuntu
extensions also turned off the extra search results, so I'm hoping that it
also stopped sending my info and didn't just start doing it silently.

~~~
ThePinion
Good to know. I'll look into it and add it as a suggestion to remove it on my
Ubuntu tips/tricks website. Thanks!

------
wyck
When stuff like this happens it's really easy to get involved and voice your
opinion by switching gears, that is the beauty of open source.

 _Ubuntu Forks_.

<http://xubuntu.org/>

<http://www.kubuntu.org/>

<http://www.linuxmint.com/>

<http://www.sabayon.org/>

 _Other Disto's_.

<http://www.mageia.org/en/>

<http://fedoraproject.org/>

<https://www.archlinux.org/>

<http://www.opensuse.org/>

etc..etc

~~~
tcdent
I know this could go on, but I think Debian should be mentioned. The Ubuntu
team themselves refer to it as "the rock upon which Ubuntu is built."

<http://www.debian.org/>

~~~
tsahyt
Debian is a great distribution. In fact, my first Linux was a Debian and I'm
still running it on the server. On the desktop I'm using Fedora though - for
no obvious reasons. It's just the one I stopped with when I was trying out
distros.

------
mfonda
I think the phrasing of this title is poor. It seems to imply that Stallman's
statement is ridiculous, yet most people (and the definition of spyware) seem
to agree that this feature is is in fact spyware.

------
motters
Stallman is right about this in my opinion. I think if the feature isn't
either opt-in, or removed, in 13.04 then Ubuntu is going to lose a great deal
of credibility, especially amongst its long time supporters. With 12.10 they
can claim that it's something experimental rushed in at the last moment which
needs refinement.

Both Mark Shuttleworth's and Jono Bacon's blog responses to this issue have
been below the standard that I would have expected. Shuttleworth made a silly
comment about Canonical having root on Ubuntu machines already and Jono
described the Stallman's comments as "childish".

------
darec1
I understand Canonicals intentions: with everything going "cloud" and "online"
it makes total sense to offer just one search box instead of two. It's easy,
it's convenient.

However it sends your input to a third party or maybe parties in the future.
You no longer control your data. Is it even encrypted? Who can see what you
are searching? Your family, your provider, everybody on your wifi?

It's not about ads in the first place, it's about data protection, trust and
user interfaces.

However this isn't Ubunut, this is just Canonical Unity. I'd just install
gnome-shell/kde/xfce/... and be done with it.

------
DannoHung
Hmm... this gives me an idea for a browser plugin: For anything you buy on
Amazon, it automatically adds an affiliate link for your favorite charity or
organization in, giving them a tiny touch of revenue.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
Perhaps the UK Inland Revenue could use this and affiliate links to get some
money out of Amazon as they're not getting much out of them through actual
taxes.

------
grannyg00se
There's a switch to shut the offending "feature" off.

Not good enough for Stallman, but definitely gave me a sigh of relief.

~~~
anonaccount27
Why not make said switch default to off?

~~~
giardini
Because the NSA wants it on. And what makes you think the switch works?

Where do you think these features come from? Windows has it and probably put
it in for the NSA, Google has it and works with the NSA as equal partners.
When I first read and saw these enhanced search subsystems in Windows and
Linux that built search databases by scanning the system's file contents and
saw how much cpu they used I immediately said to myself "Somebody's searching
for something and it isn't me!"

Furthermore I've always believed that Ubuntu was an NSA front from its very
inception.

(Puts tinfoil hat back on).

~~~
mattyohe
"And what makes you think the switch works?"

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here... but isn't Ubuntu open source?

~~~
Nikaido
The fact that Ubuntu is open source wouldn't change anything _if_ those things
were true. Just because you can look at the source does not mean you're
looking at the source of the code you're running, because you almost certainly
did not compile the whole Ubuntu distribution from the source, rather than
that, 99+% users just downloaded the precompiled iso and installed from the
official binaries, where a backdoor could slip by and you'd be none the wiser
even if you did the insane task of reading all of the code you're running
(which is not possible for a single human being) and then there's also the
fact that you can slip a backdoor that even a great programmer wouldn't
necessarily notice at a glance while looking at the sources, so there is that.

The crux of the matter is, you can't trust your computer. Even if you did
trust nearly every single human being involved in the process, it just takes a
compiler writer to break the chain of trust. <http://cm.bell-
labs.com/who/ken/trust.html>

<http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheKenThompsonHack>

~~~
devcpp
Can't you compile the source, run a checksum on all the files respective files
and check if they're identical for both versions?

------
splawn
I want a screensaver that turns this feature on, generates tons of fake
queries then turns the feature back off so i don't accidentally send them
anything real. :)

~~~
Simucal
You can turn off the feature.

~~~
splawn
yeah (and i get your underlying point), but a "screwbuntu" protest screensaver
would be a more fun and pro-active way to show disapproval of opt-out
tracking, imo.

~~~
keithpeter
Such an application would need to use search terms drawn from the collected
works of Richard Stallman, and the Free Software Foundation of course.

The application would also need to be available from the Software Centre...

PS: I use Gnome Ubuntu Remix 12.10 and I have donated to Ubuntu

------
TheCowboy
Turning it off: Super > search for 'Privacy' > under the 'Search Results' tab
> switch 'Include online search results' off

~~~
marcoamorales
So they know when you are searching to disable it, huh?

~~~
officemonkey
Remove your computer from the network first.

Done.

------
Osiris
It's too bad Ubuntu isn't open source so someone could just recompile the
application without support for the feature...

~~~
sp332
It's too bad Canonical thinks they have a right to my data on my own machine.
WTF, Canonical?

~~~
TallGuyShort
I was especially appalled when Mark Shuttleworth's response was something to
the effect of, "Look - you should trust us absolutely - we practically have
root access to your machines". That's not a good attitude. I originally
switched away from Ubuntu because I didn't like the stuff I saw getting pushed
to my machine in updates.

~~~
forrestthewoods
That actually isn't what he said at all. He did not say "you should trust us".
He said "you do trust us". There is a considerable difference. Here is the
full question and answer.

Q: Why are you telling Amazon what I am searching for?

A: We are not telling Amazon what you are searching for. Your anonymity is
preserved because we handle the query on your behalf. Don’t trust us? Erm, we
have root. You do trust us with your data already. You trust us not to screw
up on your machine with every update. You trust Debian, and you trust a large
swathe of the open source community. And most importantly, you trust us to
address it when, being human, we err.

<http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182>

~~~
freshhawk
I would trust Ubuntu not to push down damaging updates that it would be
impossible for them to do without it being discoverable.

I would not trust them to hold on to my personal data with no way of knowing
what they are going to do with it.

"You do trust us" is a classic false dichotomy fallacy.

------
shakeel_mohamed
I see both sides of this issue. But I also see the end user's point of view.
As an Android user, I like that I can press the search button and essentially
search all of my apps & the web at once. Personally, I see this as an okay
feature.

On a side note, are Amazon results shown only if one is using the Amazon
application for Ubuntu? I use Amazon frequently, but not the Ubuntu
application and I've never seens Amazon results. (On Ubuntu 12.10)

------
dhruvbird
I remember the first 4 digits of my credit card and I want the whole of it. I
do a search and "boom" the first 4 digits of my credit card are online.

------
darrikmazey
Isn't spyware you don't have to use and can uninstall just software with a
feature you do not desire? I'm completely against the feature, but I don't see
why something must be done about it? Feel free to add whatever features to
your software you like, so long as nothing requires me to use it. There are
plenty of linux distros, desktop environments, etc.

Edit: typo.

------
OlivierLi
I love Kubuntu right now. It's everything that is good about Ubuntu without
the new undesirable additions.

~~~
flogic
I gave it a short try and was semi impressed. However it has too much latent
load for me to consider it a good idea on a laptop.

------
theshadow
It's a shame that the ridiculous amount of hyperbole involved in anything that
Stallman seems to say these days is probably reducing his stature among the
tech community and the history books. IMO his opinions would be more
constructive if he tones it down every now and then.

~~~
flatline
It has been this way as long as I've been cognizant of his views; he has
always been something of a radical. It just used to be that there was one
predominant party at which to take aim (Microsoft). Now there are dozens of
targets that have sprung up, which legitimately deserve some of the criticisms
he levels against them: the walled gardens of cell phone ecosystems, rampant
DRM, and opaque social media sites for which your data is their primary source
of revenue. As more of our lives continually revolve around digital media,
there are more opportunities for abuse. Stallman has been rigidly consistent
in his basic message over the years, and he has never been particularly
constructive.

~~~
trotsky
_he has never been particularly constructive_

yeah. i mean except for the part where his actions directly lead to one of the
most significant changes in technology in a generation.

~~~
flatline
Yes, I should have said, not constructive in his criticisms, but you are
right, he has done a ton of stuff outside of his public speaking that has been
huge and actually belies my statement to a large extent.

------
frere
Just use Mint!

~~~
sqqqrly
I prefer LMDE and to skip the Ubuntu derivation.

~~~
chimeracoder
How different are the two (if you've used the Ubuntu version as well, that
is)?

I've got my family running Linux Mint, and they find it suits their purposes
(as any well-designed mainstream Linux distro these days should!). I've been
wondering if it's worth switching them over to the Debian-based version the
next time I upgrade it, though.

(Linux Mint encourages the "Windows-style" upgrade - ie, back up your data,
then install over, and restore, so it wouldn't be that much more work than
upgrading to the latest version of the Ubuntu branch).

------
BrianPetro
Does Ubuntu all you to turn this feature off?

If so, I don't have a problem with it.

~~~
Deestan
Consider this: How many searches did you do before you became aware that this
was introduced in one of the 384 software upgrades you installed in the past 4
months?

------
dchichkov
Anyone knows how much money they need / are planning to get through this?
Perhaps a crowd-sourcing campaign could be organized to match that?

Or is this a long-term plan creating an Ama$on O$?

------
j45
Aw, man. I just started checking out Ubuntu from using another flavor of linux
for years.

The setting can be turned off I just hope it's in an easy to find blog post.

~~~
keithpeter
Just go to system settings and look for privacy or something similar. There is
an actual control.

You can also remove the software that provides the Amazon search.

------
temporary432432
Why didn't he protest Apport? It sends data to Cannonical (with users content
but that does not matter in his argument)

~~~
throwaway2048
there is a large moral difference between opt in and opt out. With opt in, the
consent is explicit, with opt out, the consent is assumed to be implicit, but
user ignorance often means they have no idea that its happening at all, thus
cannot be said to have consented.

