
I Don't Want Your Fucking App - rustc
http://idontwantyourfuckingapp.tumblr.com
======
Wintamute
How about we drop the prudishness, and discuss the points raised by the
article? Seriously, what's with all the language moralising? This guys is
totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants
to. If it upsets you so much (it really shouldn't) then don't read it. His
word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may
offend your sensibilities has precisely zero relevance to anything.

~~~
edent
(I'm the creator of the site)

I've noticed - and I may be wrong - that all the folk in the UK are unfazed by
the swearing and have reacted quite positively either in person or on Twitter.

The Americans, by contrast, seem a lot more upset about the swearing. I wonder
why that is?

Either way, I do wonder if some sections of the tech community are to...
corporate in their approach to language. Look at the fuss when Linus went on a
rant about Nvidia. That's how people speak in real life when they are angry or
passionate. We shouldn't lose that simply because of a perceived lack of
professionalism.

The swearing, in my tumblr's case, is designed to be repetitious to the point
of banality. It is, if you like, an exercise in over-reaction.

~~~
michaelfeathers
_The Americans, by contrast, seem a lot more upset about the swearing. I
wonder why that is?_

There's a prudish streak in the US that I really believe comes from the fact
that the country was originally settled by people too religious and too
concerned with overtly moral social interaction to be tolerated in 17th
century England.

That may seem like too easy an explanation but I really do think there is some
truth to it. Despite the excesses in American culture, that sort of casual
swearing still gets backlash when it goes beyond people who are familiar with
each other.

~~~
jrajav
As an agnostic American, this is pretty much exactly it. There are lots of
subtle social stigmas - like cursing - due to the widespread Christian
influence.

~~~
icebraining
Due to a specific strand of Christianity. In the Southern European countries,
for example, we have the opposite: plenty of Christianity inspired swearing.

I've mentioned it here before, but _Your Mother's Tongue: Book of European
Invective_ is a great and extremely funny book on the subject.

------
Nursie
So much this.

When I come to your site it is _very_ unlikely I'm looking for any sort of
long term relationship. What I want is access to the information I'm looking
for as quickly and painlessly as possible.

Secondly, your app probably wants various permissions on my system. No.

Third, why the hell would I want hundreds of apps grunking up my menus?

Fourth, you already have my whole screen, what more do you want?

So yeah, you make my experience of your site worse and probably even reduce
your already small opportunity to advertise to me.

~~~
reinhardt
I agree with all points. What I'm wondering is, what percentage of mobile
users are like me, you and almost everyone that commented here? Does the
proverbial "average user" share the sentiment? My guess is no, or else the
marketroids that push the app agenda would have gotten the message by now.

~~~
tomjen3
I don't think marketroids care about reality based things like data -- the
good ones does, but not the kind that is employed by the daily mail.

The daily mail is actually better because they _explicitly_ wrote "you wont
see this again for 7 days", which is insane, since if I didn't want it the
first time I don't want it the second time.

As for quora, well they are run by people who wants to make the world a worse
place to be, so no surprise there.

~~~
d23
> As for quora, well they are run by people who wants to make the world a
> worse place to be, so no surprise there.

I actually quite like Quora. Any particular reason for the hate?

~~~
yareally
Forced registration to read it would be my guess. Nothing else against it
really personally. Some people just don't like having to create an account to
(passively) participate in a community. I read hacker news for well over a
year before I decided to create an actual account for posting.

If I feel I reach a point I can contribute something useful to a community,
that is when I create an account. However, I think forcing people to create an
account either detours some or nudges others to participate more (whether they
have anything useful to contribute or not).

~~~
taproot
Even then, creating an account to post to a community is an absurd idea in the
first place, why do you need my email, name, dob, and social security number
to post on a bloody internet forum and contribute content to your website?

There is your usual suspects: combat spam and the anonymous coward effect but
even then there is many ways to combat these without invading my privacy /
lessening my security online.

I think it mostly comes down to lazy analytics and shitty metrics. "we have xx
registered users",90% of those are made up of shell accounts and inactive
users but at least the numbers sound good.

This app thing is just the new incarnation of shitty metrics and the same old
story of

developer: oo new tech, me want to makey makey.

boss: can you justify it, isn't our mobile site fine?

developer: waaaaaah

boss: ok ok, jesus, fuck. Just, we'll have to make sure users actually install
it though, or we'll be out of the job.

------
apunic
I am very surprised that so many people are _not_ complaining about Mobile
Safari's missing automatic word wrap feature. This is the number one reason
why people want to use apps for anything (because their mobile browser is just
broken). With word wrap like you get on Android's browsers most traditional
desktop websites are totally sufficient on mobile devices, there's even no
need for a mobile web version (HN is the best example).

Some could think that Apple is indirectly pushing an app ecosystem with its
broken mobile browser experience and I am just seeing excited folks traveling
to some worldwide dev conferences and building shitty apps for every and
anything. For end users there isn't often any additional benefit and for
developers building a native app is a nightmare -- software development like
20 years ago, long release cycles, different platforms and on top _one_
gatekeeper deciding about your fate, wtf and no thanks. No surprise that most
mobile first and only startups are struggling like living crap.

Web based apps are still the way to go for most use cases, just check the
awesome mobile versions of Airbnb and LinkedIn, both based on Node, fast and
ultra responsive. Building native apps belongs to the traditional publisher
business model and are good for games and interaction heavy use cases
(Facebook, communication, photo sharing, etc.).

EDIT: downvoting != disagreeing

~~~
rmrfrmrf
Because word wrap and fluid layout are design decisions made by web developers
and designers, NOT the web browser. Fluid layouts work just fine on iOS and
wrap as expected. IMO the decision by Apple to scale a site's layout
proportionally without breaking the intended layout is a valid one.

~~~
apunic
And with this decision you break 99% of the web on mobile devices.

It's a tiny thing to override this CSS property and makes mobile browsing of
desktop sites so more convenient -- there's is no difference between Chrome on
a mobile device and Chrome on desktops in terms of speed and usability of
sites. In contrast, using the web browser on iOS is a real pain considering
that Apple forbids to install any other rendering engine.

And if you don't like the text reflow just turn it off, it's optional on
Android. Finally, it's a much better solution for visually impaired people
since you can scale the fonts quickly as big as you want and the text just
reflows. This even works on mobile sites since you can override zoom locks.
There are so many benefits Apple just ignores with their "design decision"
(mainly driven by commercial interests in favorite of the app store).

~~~
rmrfrmrf
> _And with this decision you break 99% of the web on mobile devices._

There's nothing broken about it. You can zoom in just fine; you just have to
scroll back and forth, much like if you had a desktop browser opened to a tiny
size.

What you describe is "broken" is actually conforming to HTML and CSS spec;
Android is the one that's technically "broken". Internet Explorer had a knack
for creating "features" that broke spec, too, and look how that turned out.

> _Finally, it's a much better solution for visually impaired people since you
> can scale the fonts quickly as big as you want and the text just reflows._

Again, accessibility has _always_ been the responsibility of the the web
designer and developer. Do you also expect web browsers to analyze images and
generate missing alt text? (That would actually be pretty cool, but again,
there shouldn't be an expectation for it).

I understand _why_ Android has chosen to include those features, but by doing
that, they're potentially breaking the UX that the web designers expect the
user to have.

It really has nothing to do with commercial interests and everything to do
with separating the responsibilities of the web browser and the web developer.

EDIT: I'm not saying that Android is wrong for including that functionality,
but to say that people should be up-in-arms at Apple for not including spec-
breaking functionality is a bit ridiculous.

~~~
qu4z-2
Scrolling back and forth to read each line sounds pretty broken to me. On the
desktop, if I had something open in a small window I'd probably pull out
Firebug and "fix" the css.

Personally I'm a believer in the original scheme where the site provided the
content and it's largely up to the user agent to decide how to present it.
This whole "Every rendering engine should create the exact same rendering of
the page down to the pixel" is super useful for web apps and stuff, but most
of the time I just want to read stuff. Honestly, I'm surprised there's no web
browser that just runs the Readable scriptlet on any page that looks like an
article by default.

------
millerm
I am with you, and I don't mind the harshness of the title. It explains
exactly how I feel. This "download our app" trend has abolutely been ruining
my browsing experience on my phone and tablets. I've used other browsers that
allow user agent hacks, but there are just too many other factors that we
developers can use to determine the hardware the user is using. Perhaps we
need a way to create a new blacklist of annoying sites and a way to notify the
user of it so they can just avoid it.

The other annoying sites are the type that use that horrible 'mobile
experience' JavaScript/CSS hack that is just awful, I don't know what it's
called because I haven't looked for it but as soon as you hit the page it
redirects a loads some giant framework to mock a native app. The browsers we
have on the devices are just fine for sites, they were built that way! Leave
it alone!

~~~
tomjen3
Onswipe.

Yeah that is another company that has decided to make world a worse place.
What I can't understand in how they got so many content owners to ruin their
websites by using their crap.

~~~
steveax
Indeed, I hate, hate onswipe "enhanced" sites. Bad enough you have to wait for
the redirect and then all the assets to load (they are always slow) but then
there are even more annoyances. There is no way to retain a preference for the
regular site (at least not without allowing 3rd party cookies) and then they
spawn a new window when you choose to view the desktop site! I've stopped
visiting sites that use onswipe. The pain is just not worth the content.

~~~
robocat
From: <http://www.onswipe.com/demo>

"This site is a dish best served on an iPad"

"The content you’re trying to view has been optimized for viewing on the iPad,
unfortunately there’s no desktop alternative available right now."

#doorslam on Android or Win8 tablet

------
flatline
I see two primary problems with this. First is the #doorslam, as the article
mentions, which is really just bad user interface. Plus who wants to get an
app for a one-off reading of some article on some site? But I also see
companies release an app that appears to have some useful features - it looks
better on the mobile device, it has better navigation on a mobile device, etc.
Why they chose to do it as an app vs. in-browser is another question but
whatever, apps are hot so companies think they need/want one, and in my
experience people are often happy to have them.

But it turns out that websites are really freaking easy to update, and apps
are not. And now you have two completely disparate codebases to maintain. So
once something rolls out on the web property, the shiny new app is not so
shiny and new, and may be missing critical features. Some companies do this
well, Facebook for example finally has an app that more usable than the mobile
site IMO. But Facebook has serious resources to dedicate to this type of
thing, and it took years for them to get to the point they are at now, their
app was barely usable for a long time.

Case in point: I've been using Piazza for a number of classes over the last
few years. They have an iOS app, and a lot of people in my classes have
expressed that they are glad of this and use it exclusively. But it hasn't
been updated for the iPhone 5 so the app display is cropped. Worse yet, there
is now a course documents section that some teachers use almost exclusively,
that you simply can't get to on the app. And the web page itself does not work
terribly well on mobile Safari. So I hardly ever use it on my phone, and my
overall impression of Piazza has seriously declined because I've spent so much
time cursing the (lack of) usability on my phone. Plus you get the #doorslam
every time you try to go to the web site on an iOS device.

------
300bps
The crux of the site is that the mobile web experience is getting worse, not
better. I agree with that. With today's smartphones, one of the easiest and
user-friendly things many sites can do is just direct users to their full web
page. A properly done mobile-optimized website can improve on that experience
but often "optimization" means a banner at the top that tells you the name of
the site in 15% of the small screen and a banner ad at the bottom of the site
that takes up 30% of the small screen.

These calls to install apps are just as annoying. Several years ago I remember
going to LinkedIn.com on my iPhone, it prompted me to install their app, I
installed it. I must've agreed to something I didn't intend to because
suddenly my contacts list was filled up with all 350 connections I had on
LinkedIn, rendering my phone contact list all but useless.

------
RyanMcGreal
Delicious irony: <http://i.imgur.com/1NS9s7L.png>

~~~
artursapek
Out of his control I think.

~~~
bambax
Yes and no. He could use a blogging platform that doesn't do what he's
complaining about ;-)

------
incision
I have at least one anecdotal perspective on app proliferation.

Currently, I'm struggling with higher-ups who have decided that we must have
apps.

They don't know what these apps will do or who will use them, simply that we
have to start pushing out apps because, well - others have apps. Therefore, we
must have apps too.

They don't seem to care that the apps they envy have dismal reviews and
download stats, that we lack a mobile website entirely or recognize that
spending a few hundred thousand on an "enterprise" framework does not equate
to instant apps.

~~~
tomjen3
This is exactly how I imagine most big companies operate, and why I am not
afraid of any of them.

Anyway to you: update the CSS to work with a mobile site, wrap the thing in
javascript that fetches the HTML of the target of the webserver and put it in
a full iframe. Wrap that in PhoneGap and be a hero.

------
jkldotio
I really loathe these app popups, unless you are doing some serious processing
like a for a game there is almost no reason for an app. It breaks the power of
a browser to have multiple documents and it breaks urls and linking to
content. And, as they point out, it also is highly redundant when a mobile
site has already been built. That's to say nothing of further redundancy in
having more than one app: one for iOS, one for Android and maybe one for
Windows mobile. That's potentially four different expensive mobile development
processes for an entirely inferior experience and causing significant
annoyance.

~~~
Achshar
The apps themselves are usually not "inferior experience". They can be
snappier and better offline performance. That's not to say I disagree with all
of the other things you said.

~~~
nmcfarl
My experience is counter to this - most apps created from websites are
inferior experiences.

Most common reoccurring problem I find is that all links off-site, are
displayed in a webframe. Which doesn't give me access to the normal things
that Safari does - I can't email the page, add it to my reading list, or
bookmark it, so inevitably I always open it in safari. I'd've rather stayed
there in the first place...

But this is not the only sin, just the one that leaps to mind.

------
leephillips
It takes a certain special skill to use high-frequency profanity and make it
funny. I doubt I possess it, and now I know that these guys definitely do not.

~~~
edent
The fucking point is that it's fucking annoying when dealing with repetitious
annoyances. I wrote it because I'm fucking annoyed and if, perchance, I've
annoyed you - then my fucking work is done.

You ossified wank rag.

:-)

[Obligatory smiley face so you don't think I actually hate you. I do,
obviously, but the emoticon might sooth your fucking soul.]

~~~
glass_of_water
I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish, but you simply left me
confused.

~~~
edent
Then my work here is done.

~~~
majkinetor
Moar

------
robinduckett
I find it funny that Tumblr immediately asked if I wanted to open the page in
Tumblr for iPhone

------
wes-exp
FYI to developers:

Apple tried to fix the obtrusiveness of these popups with "smart app banners"
in iOS 6: <http://www.macgasm.net/2012/09/19/ios-6-smart-app-banners/>

Please use them!

~~~
ryanmerket
There's an upside to using them too: You can send tracking data back to your
app through the Apple App Store 'black box' allowing you to track where your
users come from. Use the 'app-argument' meta tag variable and put your
tracking info within the URL.

------
cognivore
This gives me an idea. Wouldn't it be cool if had some sort of run-time
environment/virtual machine that everyone could target for their applications,
where it used some sort of markup for forms and layout and a built in language
for automation. It could post back to your server to send and receive data.
Everyone could use that instead of their own native app that has to be
downloaded.

I'm sure there would be some challenges to this, but I imagine it could be
done.

~~~
dredmorbius
Nobody but physicists would ever use anything like that.

------
fixxer
Quora. (n). Definition: A site I used to visit.

~~~
aendruk
I've chosen to extend[1] that definition to:

Quora. (n). A site that used to appear in my search results.

[1]: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/personal-
blocklist...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/personal-blocklist-by-
google/nolijncfnkgaikbjbdaogikpmpbdcdef)

~~~
abrkn
Nice! My first entry will be w3schools

------
tbatchelli
I feel the same way about onswipe. At a time where mobile devices have ultra-
high screen resolutions and very fancy zooming features, I find the use
(shoving into our eyes) of onswipe by many websites to be disruptive and
annoying. I usually don't bother the moment I see the spinning wheel. Swipe
right to left, paginated content, larger fonts (less content), hard to scan
content... it breaks the whole internet experience. I know how to browse, I
know how to read web pages, thank you, please give me my web page or gtfo. .

.. Maybe wrong thread?

------
shurcooL
I agree. In most cases, mobile apps are just fancy website bookmarks with a
few more advanced abilities (native code, more hardware access, permanent
local storage)... Except you have to download the app, organize it within all
your other apps, download updates, delete it when you no longer use it, make
sure its settings are in order, etc.

Imagine you had to download an app on your desktop computer before you were
able to visit any website for the first time. How crazy are these people? Why
do so few companies put user experience first.

~~~
dredmorbius
Except that they also break bookmarks, deep linking, and the ability to share
content other than how the app itself dictates.

Most "shares" are _still_ links copied in emails if I'm remembering apocrypha
correctly.

~~~
charleslmunger
A properly written android app avoids most of these issues, most notably deep
linking.

~~~
dredmorbius
A website _guarantees_ the features noted.

Few apps are properly written, and all require me to look extensively at
permissions.

------
anonymfus
Worst thing is when they detect my browser as mobile and show links to apps,
but don't actually have app for my platform.

------
peteretep
I don't want your fucking "mobile-friendly" site either, doubly so if it can't
fucking handle the redirect process to a specific piece of content, or keeps
fucking reverting.

------
shocks
And as usual, any HN post that contains profanity is immediately overrun by
'offended' fuckheads that simply don't understand the joke and are offended by
fuck all.

Stephen Fry says it best: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM>

------
downandout
Hmm....perhaps there should be a "I don't want your fucking app" setting on
Android and iPhone. This would make sure that an X-App-Fuck-Off header is sent
with every browser request, informing the site not to prompt you about its
fucking apps. That way everyone would have a choice.

------
gnu8
Many HN readers are guilty of contributing to this problem. Instead of
complaining about the site having a naughty word in the name, you should be
quiet and rethink what you've done.

------
emhart
Site prompted me to install an app: <http://t.co/CfOxUiLobq>

~~~
Samuel_Michon
That’s humorous, but it’s not a modal message, so it doesn’t actually get in
the way.

~~~
emhart
Yeah, it just made me chuckle :)

------
pullo
Reading through the comments I am glad I am not the only one who finds over
the top profanity upsetting. Yes , the author is free to make his/her point
any way they want to. and No, not everyone who thinks that this profanity is
undue is a prude. and I dont think it is fair to make a culture or age
characterization based on a user's response. Extreme or sometimes, any
profanity changes the tone of the article. that alone is a good reason to
avoid over the top proclamations. IMO the author comes across as loud and
noisy , and not strong and forceful. Just like a stand up comedian, who says
'fuck' for every joke.

As to the point in discussion: yes, it can be extremely annoying at times when
companies prompt you to download their app. they have good reasons to do it
too.

a) you spend good money to build an app, you want to drive users to the app
instead of the site

b) many times , the app can be more functional than the site

c) one of the harder things for companies to do , is to retain user
engagement. ex, if you have a firm that delivers stock quotes for users, you
want to modify the users behavior to use your firm instead of a yahoo finance,
or google. by making the user commit to download your app , in a way you get
the users commitment to use your service.

d) you get a piece of users mental space , when you get their phone's screen
space.

I personally think, having a small, disappearing toolbar to remind the user an
app is available is the best way to go. Since every business with a website,
also trying to get a mobile presence, a dual strategy of mobile web and app,
seems to be the norm.

p.s I usually upvote the stories that I find interesting enough to comment. I
choose not to do it this time.

edit:p.s

~~~
wnight
Considering you're brushing off everything he said and trotting out tired
justifications nobody asked for maybe you're just using any excuse - the
profanity will do - to justify ignoring him.

Besides, those good reasons aren't.

a) You spent good money, but did you make it a good experience for the user?

b) But usually the app is trash compared to a web browser, and offers a far
worse experience.

c) Retaining user engagement is hard when you pop up unrelated nag screens
instead of making the user's task easier on your site than your competitors'.

d) I want a website, you want to implant a brain worm.

This is exactly why I would agree with the poster. Tons of entitled nonsense
justifying making your users' experience worse - for them.

What sites are you affiliated with?

~~~
pullo
Wow, the hostility!

 _"trotting out tired justifications nobody asked for maybe you're just using
any excuse"_

I never asked you to respond to my comment, but you still did! I am part of
the discussion , the same way you are. and to take a step back and think why
things are the way they are, IMO is very good thing. billions of app downloads
happen for a reason. I was not justifying the the practice. in fact i did say
_"I personally think, having a small, disappearing toolbar to remind the user
an app is available is the best way to go_ "

there are enough apps to draw an example for every case discussed (good mobile
app, bad thick client vice versa..)

a) linked in does b)fb, the app is way better than the mobile website c) I
agreed with this. _"yes, it can be extremely annoying at times when companies
prompt you to download their app"_ d) this is jsut hyperbole and i have
nothing to say to this.

I agreed with the poster too. I had trouble with his tone like many others.
with app downloads not slowing down, it is important to understand why things
are the way they are. this might also help to predict the winning strategy.

and it is not just big firms that prefer an app over a website. piggy backing
on my previous example, a search for stocks brings up an entirely different
list of services in the apple App Store than google. the mechanisms in play
are different when it comes to mobile apps. As a coder, i prefer rich mobile
websites to app's whenever possible. But, I am unsure about the trend ( as it
seems many business are..) and that is a discussion I look forward to have.

------
orangethirty
_Google Fucking Plus. The only social network more fucking useless than
MySpace_

Well, he does make a good point here.

------
GhotiFish

       Thanks to James Fucking Whatley for the tip.
    

That guys got a great middle name.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
He probably abbreviates it most of the time, like John F. Kennedy.

~~~
whatleydude
It's true, I do.

------
gearoidoc
Since you're over-fond of profanity I'll say this in a language you
understand:

Relax. For fuck's sake.

~~~
PavlovsCat
Since you seem to be overly fond of coming across as highly sophisticated, I
will have you know that you said it in _language_ the OP understands, not in
_a language_ , good sir. Furthermore, I disagree with you in substance, and
although I don't feel motivated at this point in time to write an essay on the
matter, I do sincerely hope this quote from the movie "Network" might suffice:

 _We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit
watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had
fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's
supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's
like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit
in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and
all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me
have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say
anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want
you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I
don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to
tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the
inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that
first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn
it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get
up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window.
Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT
GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to
your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell
and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first,
you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not
going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the
depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your
chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS
MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"_

~~~
MostAwesomeDude
I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!

~~~
rdale
Dead right. It's people with pitchforks outside the Bastille. It's starving
people rioting to reclaim common land taken as 'enclosures' by the rich
people.

I somehow think that saying something like "Relax. For fuck's sake." isn't
going to help.

~~~
gearoidoc
Spot on.

"It's starving people rioting to reclaim common land taken as 'enclosures' by
the rich people." == Complaining about having to click a cancel button on a
mobile browser.

~~~
rdale
You've completely missed the point. At the moment we have a free web and we
can use a variety of browsers to access it.

If instead we can only access the web via apps and those app are controlled by
the likes of Apple or Google, then we don't have a free web anymore. Maybe
today the apps are free (as in beer), but maybe tomorrow they won't be. We
would no longer be in charge and the web would have been appropriated by
business interests.

~~~
gearoidoc
Huh? The original post wasn't about bringing a walled garden approach to the
web; it was about modals encouraging visitors to download an app.

I don't think you need to worry about only accessing the web via apps - it
just won't happen.

FWIW, I abhor the popups in question but I can understand a company's decision
to add them to their site. However, the way to stop this pattern is by showing
decision makers statistics that prove they don't work (if that is true of
course). The blog in question just seems like one big hissy fit - not the most
convincing of arguments.

~~~
rdale
"I don't think you need to worry about only accessing the web via apps - it
just won't happen."

That's all right then.

------
Ilmesnkie_Jones
That Tumblr would be so much better without the useless and unfunny
commentary.

------
michaelfeathers
The worst case of this I've seen recently as an offer of free wifi at an
airport after you.. <wait for it>.. download their app which gives you push
notifications about hotels.

~~~
kaolinite
From my experience they are unable to track the install of the app, so they
give you access to the WiFi as soon as you navigate to the app store page.

~~~
michaelfeathers
Yes, I noticed that too. They used some strange wording about when you were
supposed to be able to access wifi that led me to believe that they were
bluffing.

------
mark_l_watson
Wow that resonated with me. So tired of the push to install apps.

Last night I watched for the first time "The Gilmore Gang" podcast and was
surprised to hear all but one pundit talk about the future being apps +
Internet, and not the web. I don't want to see that. There is so much content,
including interactive web apps, that fit well with HTML5.

------
rschmitty
What is worse (if you can believe that is possible) are mobile apps (yes I
downloaded your fucking app) that then nag you to download their iPad app
while I'm on the fucking iPhone

See <http://imgur.com/yRLTOsd> and Go Pens :)

------
bergie
I fully agree with the basic point. Forcing these "download our app" doorslams
is annoying and mostly pointless. I would never download an app for most of
the sites I use, preferring the linkable, cross-platform web experience
instead.

This is particularly annoying for me because I actually use an Android tablet
as my "programming workstation", and so I get these popups on both my desktop
service and when mobile.

Of course the irony us that tumblr where this site is hosted has such a pop-up
as well... <http://imgur.com/uPMetSR>

------
aneth4
Google anything about Accor hotels, say what the benefits of Platinum are.
You'll find you can't even access the content from mobile because the page is
"not ready." Been like that for a year.

------
crimsonzagar
Well seems like the discussion has moved away from the central thought of the
post; let me try and add some of my life into the thread.

Here is how I live today:

Web is good for me. Porn is good for me. Anonymity is good for me. Given that
I have an iPad, Galaxy Note 2 and a Chinese tablet with Android on it, the
total installed 'app count' of my toys is zero. Zilch.

I have said it a numerous times before, and I'd proudly say it again ... I
hate all the native apps on the planet. Keep all that great, smooth and
butter-y experience up your garden's ass.

~~~
solnyshok
how do you get around without native skype and gmaps?

------
runn1ng
Maybe it's a "feature" of the tumblr skin, but it took me a few minutes to
realize the small and almost invisible arrow to the right at the bottom leads
to another page.

Make it bigger, if you can.

~~~
edent
Have done so. Thanks.

------
arcosdev
Wha? But we spent all this money on our glorified webview wrapper!

------
qingu
Lots of people follow the newest trend. The same thing happened with the web
in the early days. Everybody (person, company, entity) wanted a website. They
didn't know why, who would use it and what for, but they said all their
clients/customers/friends were asking for it. The same thing is happening now
with mobile.

As time progresses, people will get a better understanding of who uses mobile,
when and for what and will adapt development of mobile apps accordingly.

------
dredmorbius
I hate to me to, but me too.

I've found and am using Readability increasingly (both desktop and mobile) to
get around just this and many, many, many more failures of both mobile and
desktop Web experience.

[https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/WDFFKRhr...](https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/WDFFKRhr6gj)

------
notyourpal
I feel this way about random advertisements I see on sites (mainly intrusive
ones- well don't we all) . especially on the Forbes website. forbes can have
interesting information (mixed with too much opinion maybe) but the writing is
good...shitty site though because of ads and millions of click throughs to
read an article .

~~~
linker3000
As someone actively looking for a new job, I am getting severely frustrated by
the number of corporate Web sites that now have an 'apply online' function
that requires me to deconstruct my carefully-crafted CV into pieces that fit
the un-formattable boxes on the web form. It took me over an hour to complete
an application today. I suppose it gauges the candidates' genuine interest in
the job though.

On a side note - darn fine IT Manager looking for a new home on the UK South
coast - I'll email a CV - just don't point me towards a web form!

------
Nux
ZOMG! Nice blog entry! Lots of steam released. :D

And now the question: why do people build apps and shove it down other
people's throat? Most of what they do can be done via a ("mobile") web site.
Hell! Most of them are useless without internet connectivity anyway!

So why not make a great web site and just let people bookmark it?!

~~~
tomjen3
Cause menagement is stupid (as always) and wants an app because all the other
children^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h/companies have one.

------
ad80
<http://www.stereomood.com/mood/relax>

~~~
capitalisthakr
Ironically, this site suggests downloading their app when viewing it from an
iPhone. :)

------
majkinetor
Apps like that are really idiotic as concept. Why the fuck do we have mobile
view ffs? Can't you do your mobile version of the site looking the same as
your idiotic app ? Why do I need to have 77 entrances to the same thing?

------
vain
Apps are the flash widgets of this era.

Thank you Mr Jobs for making the internet proprietary again.

------
hawkharris
Think of four-letter words as exclamation marks: you can use them on occasion
when you want to drive a point home, but they appear less punchy! and less
funny! with every! successive! use!!!

~~~
tomcorrigan
Not! Fucking! Always!

------
akadien
Oh, hell yeah! I want a mobile-enabled web site on my iPad, not another
useless app-wrapper proxy for a web site. Shouldn't the fact that I remember
the URL be enough??

------
DominikR
Everyone should try to have a good user experience, but it is not always the
best business decision to dogmatically follow some usability guidelines.

------
smegel
They exist because they work - i can imagine lots of novice users clicking OK
perhaps because they think its the only way to continue.

------
chriogenix
for android on dolphin browser you can change the user agent and get around
all of this but then the mobile version of the site doesnt load so thats kind
of a hassle. i agree that a really good mobile site would work a lot better in
most cases.

------
zapf
Love your man's way of putting the point across.

Never seen the point being made so fucking clearly. ;)

------
ancarda
On a positive note, almost all of these offer to say "no" to the app.

~~~
dredmorbius
Which is forgotten when you reset cookies. So you'll get the nag. Again. And
again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And
again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And
again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And
again. And again. And again.

------
ruswick
Certainly, this "door-slamming" practice is detrimental and is a UX decision
that needs to be confronted, but this sort of incoherent diatribe doesn't
contribute to the discussion.

------
JcMalta
Fucking Brilliant.

You should make an app to display this list.

------
return0
Angry titles attract the most clicks, i read that somewhere yesterday. This
has now been proved. I would like to make it an eponymous law now.

------
sjltaylor
potty mouth.

~~~
shocks
The author is trying to convey a point that is clearly way above your head.
Stop being 'offended' by stuff that doesn't fucking matter.

------
cpursley
Get over yourself. I like the option to select the mobile version or web
version.

Non-sophisticated users might be looking for the mobile site but do not know
how to get to it.

I think the best UX pattering is:

A: View the mobile optimized site B: Download the mobile app (if applicable)
C: No thanks, continue and remember my choice

~~~
voyou
No, the best UX is to show you the fucking website. It may well make sense to
include links to a mobile app and to the desktop version, but those links are
clearly of less interest to the user than the website they want to look at, so
they should not interrupt the user before the website itself is displayed.

