
Former CEO of Paypal, Intuit: “Bitcoin is the greatest scam in history” - DEFCON28
https://www.recode.net/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency-mining-pump-dump-fraud-ico-value#
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DrScump
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16914632](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16914632)

80+ points

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fragmede
I'd believe Intuit's CEO as I trust him to know about scams - he's running one
of the most successful ones there is! He successfully lobbied Congress and the
IRS to mandate the use of tax preparation software, and hey, _guess what his
company makes_?

~~~
gregjor
Did you read the part that says he's the past CEO of Intuit? Not involved with
Intuit's current lobbying. In any case attacking the author or Intuit about
something that has nothing to do with the topic doesn't make sense.

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adamnemecek
Does he still own stock?

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loceng
How would that make the original comment more or less valid?

~~~
loceng
Someone's downvoted me for asking a question for clarification? I'm regularly
reminded how garbage downvotes are.

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OscarCunningham
It might not be a good idea, but I don't think it's fair to call it a "scam".
I don't think Satoshi created it with the anticipation that it would fail.

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admyral
What's so righteous about the status quo that makes skeptics feel so compelled
to defend it so vehemently by degrading Bitcoin?

But it seems we should be far beyond Denial and Anger stage and well into
Bargaining and Guilt at this point. Don't worry, he'll join the chorus of
"blockchain is good, Bitcoin is bad" rhetoric soon enough.

~~~
aitrean
What's so righteous about the status quo? I'll put it to you as succinctly as
possible:

I can hold money in a checking account and have the same amount of money next
week, or next month

Inflation is largely predictable, and pretty much non-existant compared to
crypto volatility

Fraud, phishing, and hacking will not cause me to lose my life savings. My
mother is not technologically savvy at all. I would be terrified to let her
keep any significant portion of her savings in a system where a hash with a
typo will cost you you everything.

For as much as cryptocurrency supporters will harp about the evils of Wall
Street; the explicit scams, pump and dumps, and market manipulation by 0.001%
of crypto holders make Goldman Sachs look like a company of boy scouts. 2008
Financial recession? Ha, wait until you see what happens when Chinese mining
pools decide it's time to weed out the small fish (ie, every other month or
so). Sure, lecture me all you want about how the Federal Reserve is evil - but
at least they don't prey on investors with explicit pump and dumps, useless
ICOs, or that shit circus Tether.

Although there are certainly smart people working in the blockchain space -
most cryptocurrency/blockchain supporters are needlessly confrontational,
smug, have a limited understanding of economics or financial engineering, and
use ad hominems when they're confronted by arguments they can't debate
against.

From an economics and engineering perspective, there are a lot of holes in
blockchain and crypto as a technology. This is reflected in the fact that
there are currently no useful innovations built on blockchain, other than
money laundering, and cryptocurrency (which has no inherent value itself).

~~~
admyral
I find nothing righteous about a system designed for a select few to profit
from maintaining the illusion our money is safe and secure in a vault
somewhere. That illusion has already cost people their life savings without
any attacks or user error required. But the difference is they are deemed "too
big to fail", so when they screw up, they get bailed out while everyone else
loses it all.

More egregious is economists insistence that the continuous debasement of our
currency combined with skyrocketing consumer debt and stagnant wages due to
automation will not end badly. These are the same economists that couldn't
possibly predict what would happen when bankers and creditors were allowed to
produce billions in worthless financial derivatives and sell them as triple-A
investments.

~~~
hndamien
Funnily enough, when people realised they could copy code and sell them off as
triple-A investments that is exactly what they did. (OK, not triple A, but the
scam of money from nothing is happening again and again.) At least with
Bitcoin there is an end.

~~~
admyral
I see little distinction between a shitcoin ICO and a fart app on the App
Store. A fool and their money are easily parted.

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viraptor
I'm not sure why they needed to add incorrect/unfounded ideas to the otherwise
ok article.

> Because transactions can be anonymous — law enforcement cannot easily trace
> who buys and sells — its use is dominated by illegal endeavors.

That's a no, no, and [citation needed]. Especially since later they write:

> The IRS recently ordered one major exchange to produce records of every
> significant transaction.

~~~
PhilWright
I assume that most mom and pop investors will use the same exchange to buy
their bitcoin and then later sell them. In that case the IRS can see both
transactions in their account and know the capital profit/loss they have not
declared.

If you buy at one exchange and then transfer the coins to another to sell it
would be harder for the IRS to match up and discover your profit/loss.
Especially if you move the coins via several intermediaries and sell in a
different country that is not under the IRS jurisdiction.

~~~
viraptor
You can still track the transactions though - or specifically IRS or LE can
request history from the exchanges. Some exchange in the chain may not be
under the IRS jurisdiction, but if you want to actually withdraw your money,
you'll have to do it either by buying something, via local organisation in
cash, or in another country. I.e. it's not that much harder to track than if
you did it in cash (rather than btc), which has the same pros/cons if you're
in the US.

And I don't think exchanges will ever protect anyone if the LE asks, because
of the know your customer rules
([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer))

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llcoolv
[https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-a-scam-claims-
oust...](https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-a-scam-claims-ousted-ceo-
of-paypal)

Seems like Harris spent around 20 working days as "PayPal Founding CEO" before
he got figured out. Quite ridiculous.

~~~
aitrean
Not sure what "figured out" means. However, just to deflect another crypto-
fueled ad hominem, I'd like to point out that Elon Musk was also a CEO of
PayPal, and lasted only around a year in the position before he too was forced
out.

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angersock
I mean, it is though.

Consider the quality of life that could've been achieved with the same energy
cost, material cost, and eventual environmental cost--all so that nerds can
collect Merkle pogs.

~~~
Ryudas
Consider the quality of life that would be gained by having the same energy
all these "gamer" nerds use, with their consoles and graphics power on these
useless. silly games. Or consuming netflix. Or watching movies. Or doing
anything that is not directly used on the survival of the human race. This is
a pedantic argument.

~~~
angersock
There's a big difference between entertainment and bitcoins--your false
equivalence is wrong.

~~~
hndamien
It is. One is the most important economic innovation of our lifetime.

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hapnin
Reminds me of this piece re: other fields:

President of American Association of Buggy-Whip Manufacturers takes a strong
stand against internal combustion engine, argues that the so-called
“automobile” has “little grounding in theory” and that “results can vary
widely based on the particular fuel that is used” [0]

[0] [http://andrewgelman.com/2014/08/06/president-american-
associ...](http://andrewgelman.com/2014/08/06/president-american-association-
buggy-whip-manufacturers-takes-strong-stand-internal-combustion-engine-argues-
called-automobile-little-grounding-theory/)

