

Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers  - dirkdk
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/breaking-adria-richards-fired-by-sendgrid-for-outting-developers-on-twitter/

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mattermill
I like the part where she said "SendGrid supports me" -
<https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328>

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jkrems
Wonder if that's part of the reason she was fired. That's where her position
becomes company policy and if that was not properly communicated...

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kevingibbon
I'm not saying I agree with SendGrid's decision but how could Andria
effectively do her job as a developer evangelist if the entire developer
community hates her?

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nvr219
direct link: <https://www.facebook.com/SendGrid/posts/10151502570463967>

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neeee
This was taken off the front page:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5416021> Edit: this thread is also gone

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throwaway125
guess _this_ thread is also gone from the front page now.

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mhurron
Equality is a good thing.

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arrrg
This is not equality, it’s a clusterfuck. Two wrongs don’t make a right. In
the end the bullies won.

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warmwaffles
I don't see it as that. There were better ways to handle the situation. She
shouldn't have public shamed them without asking them to stop first.

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arrrg
Probably.

Sadly, humans are not perfect. Making dumb jokes and posting a photo of those
who made dumb jokes online? Dumb mistakes.

Firing people, DDoS attacks, vile threats: Now that’s a shitty clusterfuck.
The bullies have driven the conversation.

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warmwaffles
I think the firing was purely a business decision for both companies.
Harboring stuff like this can go down hill fast. It's easier to just let them
go and not have to deal with it.

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arrrg
An immoral business decision, yes.

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warmwaffles
It can be, but it could also be an excuse to get rid of a problem employee.
SendGrid could have been waiting for her to slip to let her go.

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sjs382
No matter how this all plays out, "accusing" is a more accurate headline than
"outting".

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mwetzler
A terrifying precedent for all women in tech.

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afandian
What has this got to do with women? Anyone could have found those jokes
offensive, whatever their gender. And no-one has the right to protection from
being offended, whatever their gender.

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mwetzler
Thanks for asking. The nature of the attacks against Adria are EXTREMELY
misogynistic (rape threats, death threats, people calling her a c_nt, b_tch,
wh_re, etc) and many people have taken up a "burn her at the stake" mentality.
They've also pulled into question her professional credibility and called her
an affirmative action hire. They are saying this kind of behavior should be
expected from someone with the domain "butyouragirl".

Misogyny is kind of like porn: "you know it when you see it". There is a
simply an undue level of hatred for Adria which is correlated to her gender, I
think in large part because she is an outspoken feminist.

A lot of people in this community would very much like outspoken feminists not
to exist (check the comments here or on Reddit anytime a post about women in
tech goes up).

Another way to look at it: I can't imagine this chain of events would have
gone down if a man pointed out a lewd joke at a conference.

The whole thing really smells like a feminist backlash.

I'm trying to be more outspoken about gender bias I encounter in the
workplace, but incidents like this are a terrifying reminder of why that can
be dangerous.

A few months ago I posted about an inappropriate comment someone made to me at
a hackathon and got lots of advice (on this forum) to publicly out and shame
the person. Seeing that my company could have come under attack for that is a
reminder of why it's dangerous for women to speak out.

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afandian
Absolutely, the reaction would be terrifying for anyone. I assumed you were
talking about her initial actions. I was.

There's been sensible debate and abuse. There may be an overlap, but they are
distinct reactions. If you challenge someone, you invite them to challenge you
back (I hope she's not terrified by disagreement). But abuse and threats are
entirely separate, and seem to have come from people beyond the industry, e.g.
anonymous. Lots of trolls on the net are just looking for a fight and gender
politics fades into the background when you have a large number of people on a
hair-trigger, willing to use any language at their disposal that they can make
fit the target.

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hprx
<http://cmx.io/#5214736>

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msoad
I'm sure there are tons of companies who are willing to hire her now.

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jiggy2011
Well.. That escalated quickly...

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dos1
This is somewhat meta, sorry.

What concerns me is that even in the face blistering internet rage, she dug in
her heels and stood by her actions. Just apologize. Why is it _so bloody hard_
for people these days to just admit they made a mistake? Being fired, harassed
on twitter, etc etc could not possibly be better than writing "I'm really
sorry I publicly outed those guys, I should not have done that, and will
refrain from doing that in the future".

Here's another thread where I argue that an apology could have fixed things:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5415524>

Some of the responses were indignant, and people said she shouldn't have to
apologize for her actions. I agree, she doesn't need to apologize. But look
where it got her! This is indicative of a much broader trend I see. People
today would rather lose a finger than say they're sorry. I just cannot
understand it.

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jkrems
If I recall correctly she at least said she was sorry in that first HN thread
where it was mentioned that one of the guys was fired. But she could have
written that in an update on her blog post or in a new post.

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amhindle
!

