
Net Neutrality: Time to Use Mesh Networks to Build Your Own Internet? - ohjeez
https://www.inverse.com/article/39507-mesh-networks-net-neutrality-fcc
======
fernly
I've just spent some time browsing this article and some of the sites it links
to, and I have to say that they all are doing a _terrible_ job of
communicating to both the general audience that might be supportive _users_ of
a local mesh, and to the moderately technical audience that might be
interested in actually helping create one.

As a knowledgeable internet consumer, I come to it with the general question,
"What would such a mesh network do for me?" to which the only answer seems to
be, "It gives me the fascinating task of buying a router and flashing its
firmware and writing its config file, all based on sketchy jargon-filled
docs."

Supposing I do that, and in the highly unlikely outcome that I don't screw it
up, I will then have -- what, exactly? Besides a nonstandard router?

Supposing there existed a libremesh network in my city. Not impossible. How
would I know? Could I use it to access internet content?

Another crucial question not answered is, how is a local mesh supposed in any
way to be a circumvention of the traffic-shaping that we all fear the telecoms
will do, now they aren't common carriers? Yeah, to the extent that a whole
neighborhood is meshed up, you could have free and unfettered exchange of
email and FTP among all your neighbors.

Yippee.

The content that an internet consumer really wants, and which occupies 99.9%
of the bits she consumes, comes from the major sites that are out there on the
backbone of the net. Ninety-nine percent of what the edge users of a mesh want
to pull from their mesh connections originates far outside the neighborhood.
And it has to enter the local mesh from an internet access point that is
sourced by one of those big bad telecoms.

A neighborhood mesh looks like a fine way for a neighborhood to organize block
parties and garage sales, but it really is just a way to share access to some
ports to the same un-neutral internet everyone else uses. Except you've added
a random number of local wireless hops to every ping.

~~~
kevinqiu1
I am familiar with NYC
mesh([https://nycmesh.net/faq/](https://nycmesh.net/faq/)), one of the linked
networks in the article, and it answers many of your questions.

To answer your most salient question(about whether it provides internet
connectivity)

>We provide internet through peering at an internet exchange point. If you
have line-of-sight to this “supernode” in downtown Manhattan you can have a
fast, reliable connection with suitable hardware, and replace your ISP.

~~~
LeifCarrotson
> _If you have line-of-sight to this “supernode” in downtown Manhattan_

Isn't the point of mesh networking that you only need line of sight to someone
else on the network who has line of sight to someone else (etc) who has line
of sight to the supernode?

~~~
dogma1138
No, mesh networks can have different tiers the primary supernode network can
be fully meshed but the individual clients are not.

If we take a standard network for example then all your routers can be meshed
for each router the primary backbone switches can also be in another mesh but
the edge switches that say connect individual users are not meshed.

This would still count as a mesh network despite having 3 tiers with different
fault tolerance / handling characteristics for each tier.

------
NelsonMinar
This post's packets are coming to you from a mesh network. From a fixed
wireless ISP in Grass Valley, CA, and my packets are routed through at least
one neighbor's house before hitting wire. A lot of rural America relies on
WISPs like this because the telco duopoly has failed us. I'd much prefer wired
service; it's faster, more reliable, and lower latency. But AT&T and Comcast
refuse to run a wire an extra half mile and the FCC won't make them.

------
bogomipz
Mesh Networks might stop last mile ISPs from prioritizing traffic but
eventually you access the internet via a transit provider and/or tier 1 ISP
who are also not bound by net neutrality now. So mesh networking doesn't
really solve the problem.

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datenwolf
I'm disappointed that Freifunk is not mentioned in that article
[https://freifunk.net/en/](https://freifunk.net/en/)

------
ishanjain28
Hi, I have a question. If people try to build their own network, They'll have
to connect to the existing internet at some point so they can access a website
that is on the internet and not on their network, Right?

So, How would they do it? Do you just ask some ISP for a high-speed
connection? How does it work? I saw some videos about people in Detroit
setting up their own network but they didn't show everything and their
internet speed was quite low.

~~~
atrus
[https://startyourownisp.com/](https://startyourownisp.com/)

There is a user on here who created/is creating a website that answers that,
just in the context of starting a wireless ISP.

But, to answer your question, you would buy a connection to the internet from
a provider like Level 3, or Hurricane Electric or whoever.

~~~
ishanjain28
Thanks @atrus. That website is really nice.

------
jscholes
TL;DR: No, it isn't.

~~~
__s
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)

------
tritium
Before I start trusting random people running mesh nodes to provide me with
internet service, I’ll need to see a clear demonstration of some kind of
defensive posture for trusting traffic in such a situation.

After all, I think some lessons have been taught by free, open wi-fi offered
by cafes.

Is SSL/TLS enough? Probably not for less technical people who can be socially
engineered into trusting a malicious root CA because they just want internet.

Is TOR worth anything? Oh, I still feel like it’s pretty laughable that exit
nodes operate on an honor system of not snooping on plain-text traffic. From
where does one summon the mental gymnastics necessary to go along with that?

I’m not sure why I should just feel comfortable about letting any peer’s node
handle my traffic. Feels like a handy-wavey “ _Brad & Chad_” brogrammer move.

~~~
ejanus
I think [http://altheamesh.com](http://altheamesh.com) answers your concern as
related to security. It uses wireguard,vpn, establish tunnels for packet flow
.

~~~
tritium
VPN services still put us on the run, so to speak. As an optional,
externalized behavior, those who choose to employ VPN tunneling will enjoy an
additional layer that buys them some time, for some of their activity.

But if one were trying to suggest that “ _it’s time to put mesh networks in
play as this newer model, to assert greater control_ ” then I’d like to see a
technology that solves certain problems, instead of the same technology as
ever, with all it’s existing, known problems, except now distributed and peer-
oriented.

I want to see the real problems solved, before I give everything away to
peers. Otherwise unsophisticated peers can cause problems for me, just like an
ISP. The difference being, most peers will be unprepared to exploit each other
for a short amount of time, but then, as utilization saturates, and expertise
grows, we’re back to square one.

