
It’s Time for Silicon Valley to Disrupt Its Toxic Asian Stereotypes - paublyrne
https://www.wired.com/2017/05/silicon-valley-stereotypes/
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freyir
The author is casting the white characters in a good light, conveniently
ignoring all of their deep flaws, and fixating on the flaws of the non-white
characters.

 _" Meanwhile, Pakistani immigrant Dinesh spectacularly screwed up both a CEO
position and a relationship."_

Dinesh is perhaps the most likeable character on the show. Yes, he messed up
in the CEO role. Just like Richard, and Gavin Belson, and the other CEO of
Pied Piper. Just like Erlich and Big Head in running their incubator. Has the
author actually watched the show?

Regarding Dinesh's relationship, _he ended it,_ for good reason. Contrast that
with Richard's recent experience.

Jian Yang is an immigrant, and Erlich's frequent references to that fact can
be grating. But the argument that Jian Yang's bad app idea is racist is
ridiculous. People in SV pitch bad ideas all the time. Is the author
suggesting that non-white characters can't be shown failing?

~~~
TheArcane
Is there any reason why they're being called immigrants instead of expats? Is
there any difference?

~~~
ulfw
Immigrants move to a new country on their own accord to (potentially) build a
new life for themselves there.

An expat is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other
than that of their citizenship sent abroad by their employers, who can be
companies, governments, or non-governmental organisations, often with
specially monetary incentives to make the (allegedly unwilling) move.

~~~
dismantlethesun
By that measure, H1-B's would be expats wouldn't they? They're not on a path
to immigration, and theoretically are only working in the USA because no one
with their unique skillset could be found, thus companies (theoretically) pay
them premium wages.

~~~
ulfw
I don't think you read what I wrote. H1-Bs are not sent to the US by their
foreign employer generally (there is a different visa category for that). Also
why would you think. H1-Bs are not on a path to immigration? For many people
the path to US citizenship based on employment is H1 to Green card to
citizenship

~~~
dismantlethesun
It was my mistaken understanding, that another poster cleared up.

I thought that because H1-B VISAs tethered one to their employer, then your
situation was understood to be impermanent since if you lost your job and
didn't quickly find another then you would have to leave the country.

This seems onerous compared to a green card.

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rl3
I wonder if it ever occurred to some people—let alone the author—that _Silicon
Valley_ is not only comedy, but a merciless mockery of its real-life namesake.
It is pure satire.

As such, the show takes reality and amplifies it—often to the level of
ridiculous caricature.

To suggest that _Silicon Valley_ must censor itself for the sake of people's
delicate sensibilities, is to suggest that the show must cease calling out the
fact racism exists in the real life Valley, and instead paint a willfully
disingenuous picture.

To quote Geogre Carlin:

" _It’s the user. It’s the intention behind the words that makes them good or
bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of
people talking about bad words and bad language. "_

 _Silicon Valley_ 's writing is no different. The context is that it's a show
which mocks the _absolute shit_ out of its real-life counterpart, and does an
excellent job of it.

This is simply a case of wannabe censors bent on cutting off their nose to
spite their face. _Silicon Valley_ is playing for their team, they're just too
stuck up to realize it.

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brian-armstrong
Are we asking Mike Judge to be the bastion of cultural sensitivity? The same
Mike Judge who made Beavis and Butthead?

This show opened with quite a lot of racism and sexism in its first episode.
Why not just avoid the show entirely?

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Sorreah
Quite trashy article, twisting reality to fit it's agenda.

You could make the argument that the show (despite being a comedy show with
caricatures as it's characters) should include more Asians and cast them in as
positive a light as the other characters. I'd still disagree (you're trying to
dictate how someone should create what-might-be art) but it wouldn't be as
distasteful.

Instead of doing that, the writer chooses to try and tell us that the "white"
characters are "grappling with the difficulty of translating genius into
profit". Despite being presented as hugely flawed episode-to-episode. Despite
half of them being presented as simpletons that are faking-it-till-they-fail-
spectacularly.

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paublyrne
All the characters in Silicon Valley are one dimensional caricatures, so on
the one hand it seems unreasonable that two of the characters should have
their ethnicity explored in a meaningful way. The show doesn’t treat anything
in a deep or meaningful way. When the caricature is based on ethnicity,
however, and ethnic stereotypes particularly, then surely there is an onus to
treat racial sensitivities, or attempt to do so. The slurs dressed as wit
continues to grate, in an otherwise enjoyable comedy.

~~~
forgottenpass
_All the characters in Silicon Valley are one dimensional caricatures_

All fiction is artifice. Conversations about how good/bad representation in
fiction creates an underlying assumption that it's not crazy to expect
prioritization of accuracy in modeling humanity. Fictional characters are cogs
in a rube goldberg-ian machine designed to elicit an emotional response.
Similarities to reality exist to make it so the set-up for the emotional
punchline doesn't feel artificial.

That is my primary problem with articles like these. The presumption that
ethnicity is more often explored by media, rather than just new contextual
framing and stereotypes programmed into the brains of the viewer.

Creators trying to "get real" in their fiction are just using "real" as
shorthand for "exploring emotional themes that are relevant to me and/or to
the zeitgeist" and "reducing the uncanny valley feeling of characters that are
inexorably two-dimensional."

Also: In b4 I'm called autistic for thinking cookie cutter meta-conversation
that follow one of a dozen "Look for X, feel Y about Z" criticism patterns
only serves to obscure, not clarify, our understanding of works of fiction.

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JamesBarney
One caveat is this article quotes a study that shows that Asians are under-
represented among top leadership in Silicon Valley. One potential confounder
they don't address in the study is they don't differentiate between foreign
and native born. I imagine at least some if not all of the gap would disappear
if you compared native born to native born.

I don't know if being foreign born is a good a reason to not be in an
executive position, but I seriously bet it's a factor.

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algesten
> Whites create and Asians copy

While I think it's incorrectly worded, I do think cultures encourage
behaviours that in turn affects ideas like creative output, but that's not
race, only culture.

Example: My native country, Sweden, has a culture of municipal music schools
that are relatively cheap. Tons of kids are encouraged, and do, take up some
instrument at some point. Very few take it further, but Sweden has a
disproportionate number of #1 international pop hits compared to its tiny
population. This is obviously also part of that pop music is something that is
globally in demand (some countries produce many classical musicians, which may
not be as commercially viable).

Kids in the US are encouraged to live the American dream, that anyone can make
their own fortune (totally unrealistic, given class structures), and are
encouraged to innovate and try things out. Clearly that culture of "self made
man" produces a lot of innovation and creative output, which in turn is
globally very in demand.

The only asian country I had a little insight into is India. As an outsider, I
can't at all claim to understand it, but there appears to be widespread
culture of learning a trade, perform that trade the way you learned it, get a
good job with a big company and then focus on your family. I trained some
outsourced IT staff, and no one there wanted to "stick out" or perform better
than the group. People were much more inclined to take collective
responsibility for solving a task than individual. I speculate that India as a
consequence of this culture, isn't using its full potential for dominance
globally, be it creatively, musically etc. Though there are signs of it
changing.

~~~
ml78
As an Indian, it's hard to convey the breath of what happens in India. It
really depends on which pocket of the country you land up in and who you are
surrounded by.

You have to remember there are cities in India with populations larger than
Sweden. With histories and traditions older than anything you will find in
Europe.

There are so many different schools of
art/music/dance/architecture/textile/food etc that teaching an Indian kid
about it all in an education system geared towards economic utility is a
complex issue.

Which is why most people, most Indians included, have a very simplistic and
often times misguided understanding of Indian creativity.

~~~
algesten
Yes, this is why I say I really don't presume to understand much. I've seen
some things, and it's questionable whether I understand what I see through my
western cultural filters.

My pockets were mostly southern india and a bit of delhi and kolkata. In work
contexts of IT, I (thought) I saw similarities, but I'm sure there's many
subtle differences that just eluded me.

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partycoder
Well, first of all, Jimmy O. Yang, the actor and comedian that interprets
Jian-Yang is probably the most talented comedian of the bunch.

I do think that, humor aside, reinforcing stereotypes is unnecessary for
Silicon Valley to be a successful show so they should try exploring other
themes.

