

Yeah, but he really knows his stuff... - peter123
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2009/03/yeah-but-he-really-knows-his-stuff.html

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chime
This is yet another post about stereotypical employees/coworkers. I don't like
to think of people as hollow stereotypes that someone online can precisely
nail down so as to dispense wisdom on dealing with them. Yes, I've worked with
lots of people who sort of resemble the stereotypes and I'm sure all of you
have, hence the popularity of such posts.

However, I urge everyone to please remember that stereotypes are templates and
nobody fits the stereotype exactly. Everyone has something special about them
that is worth considering. Just imagine if you do have a "mr. know-it-all" at
your work who gets a bit frustrated when you ask him to do important but
"boring" things like documentation or protocol compliance. Advice like this
will suddenly put this person in your view as negative, despite the fact that
"mr. know-it-all" is a very hardworking employee who is extremely loyal to
your company. Nobody is perfect and thanks to this new stereotype that you
just read about, you cannot help but compare him to the guy that "one everyone
has to tiptoe around." Oh how you hate that stereotype and look, this "mr
know-it-all" totally fits the description!

You could solve your documentation problem in some other way but once you fire
this guy, you got two problems - you don't have a loyal, hardworking, "mr.
know-it-all" anymore and you don't have the documentation on what he did and
how he did it I'm no managerial-guru but I sure hope nobody starts firing
their top tech people because of random posts on the Internet.

Of course, the hypocrisy here among most of us is that when a large company
does fire key tech people from their staff, we all come in rallying for
support of the tech folks, arguing "how can a company survive if they fire
their lead tech!" Well, companies can survive. And yours could too despite the
fact that you fired your key tech person as long as you have a good
infrastructure in place. However, that doesn't mean your competition won't
welcome them with open arms and now you got a third problem.

~~~
alain94040
Exactly. The fun is in dealing with reality, not stereotypes. Life would be so
much simpler (and boring) if everyone fit nicely in a little box.

At least in startup mode, where you obsess daily, hourly and minutely (?)
about everything: should I fire John? Is John the best producer I ever had?
But John just did something amazing yesterday, he saved the day. John is being
a pain today. Had lunch with John, what a great guy.

You have to constantly look at the trees, look at the forest, and make
choices. Tactical and strategic.

It's the same as parenting by the way. It's easy to read a book and see that
by age 2, you should treat you kid in such and such fashion. Great, high-level
advice. Except you interact with your kid constantly. When you're in a good
mood and when you are not. We are back to tactical and strategy.

Bottom line: hire engineers who have great kids :-)

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swombat
While I have nothing against the idea of "resolving" jerks/bullies, I think
suggesting that deep technical skills and being an unproductive jerk are
concomitant is insulting, and dangerously wrong.

Fortunately, this suggestion is made by a marketing guy, and everyone knows
they're full of hot air.

~~~
Ysx
But he doesn't suggest that:

"You'll find someone else who really knows this stuff. No doubt about it. And
firing one intransigent bully is a lot less painful than shutting down an
entire division next year because he paralyzed your decision-making."

~~~
beza1e1
Seth states that "Deep technical competency is overrated compared with the
ability to make excellent decisions"

I'd rather say technical competency doesn't make up for destroying the team
spirit. There are probably several movies, where the coach throws out the star
of the team and gets a better overall team afterwards.

On the other hand it is important to know that technical competency is a
requirement for excellent decisions.

~~~
anamax
> There are probably several movies

There are movies where folks believe in Tinkerbelle and that keeps her alive
or brings her back to life.

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donaq
I can work around bad attitude, but I can't work around incompetence. Besides,
you do not gain true technical expertise without the ability to eventually
recognize a good solution for one. So while you may encounter initial
resistance when you broach a new idea to a good techie (usually because if
he's good, he's already given the problem a lot of thought and hence really
thinks his is the right solution) if your idea has merit, she will usually
come around after cooling down a little. That has been my experience, anyway.

Conversely, if you think your idea is really good and he refuses to come
around and is unable to give a logical reason why, then a) he's not really
that good or b) he's good but you did not understand what he said.

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vaksel
the thing is, the "he really knows his stuff" guy usually doesn't. He somehow
convinced the top guys 5-6 years ago that he did, and now they think he shits
gold, when in reality he is very mediocre by current standards

~~~
andreyf
_now they think he shits gold_

What's worse is that _he_ thinks he shits gold... I've noticed that certain
personalities tend to go this way as they learn something well - they use
their knowledge it to feel better about themselves, as if the entire point of
learning was to make up for insecurities. Once they know enough to sound
knowledgeable, they stop learning.

The worst thing about this is, I think, that it becomes impossible to hire
people smarter than them.

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plinkplonk
heh! a guy who makes a living blowing up obvious platitudes into book length
anecdote laden "management advice" has a problem with technically sharp people
(who as someone pointed out earlier here) he conflates with "bullies" (what an
ill defined catchall phrase) and advocates getting rid of them.

Why am I not surprised?

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ReTelTech
A platitude about platitudes: they don't apply universally. If I find myself
in a management position where this situation occurs, I would not be so hasty
to fire. There's more legwork involved to make a prudent choice in this
situation than Seth lets on to. I'm just sayin'...

------
Eliezer
Wow. This is one of the worst pieces of advice I've ever heard.

Don't hire him in the first place, maybe. But once he's there, if you don't
have a replacement _already_ lined up and _combat-tested_ , firing him can
easily shut down your company.

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mavelikara
> Deep technical competency is overrated

..

> ability to make excellent decisions

Ability to make excellent decisions comes from deep technical competency.
Firing the guy who knows something about stuff leaves behind a bunch of guys
who are not very likely to make the excellent decisions you are looking
forward to. But there are people who _pretend_ to have deep technical
competence.

------
raffi
I agree with this. There should be no place for pains in the asses, no matter
how smart they think they are. I remember when I was interviewing (seems so
long ago), I got to interview with one of these kinds of guys. I felt so
belittled after the process. Even though I liked the company (and found the
best HR I've ever seen!!)--I said no to their offer. Not the team I want to be
on.

------
rincewind
This looks like a one of "Murphys Laws of Work"

e.g. <http://www.bored.com/jokes/0241377.html> (Conway's Law #2)

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sanj
It sounds to me like he's talking about Bill Gates.

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thras
Some people are worth 10 average people (some people are worth 100). If you
want your startup to outcompete, you need them. You may have to put up with
some amount of shit, but hiring talent is a non-negotiable requirement for
business success.

~~~
amirnathoo
That's true. It's also true that a single person can destroy the productivity
of 10 other people no matter how talented and motivated those other 10 are. I
think that is the point the article is trying to make.

~~~
thras
Well, I thought that the cornerstone quote of the article was this:

"Deep technical competency is overrated compared with the ability to make
excellent decisions and to create a culture where forward motion is valued and
personal initiative is rewarded."

And, on average, I don't find that deep technical competency is overrated
compared to...well, he's talking about social skills here.

At every stage of the hiring and interview and HR process, the deck is stacked
in favor of social skills and social advantages. Is it better to be 25% more
competent or to be 6 foot 3 inches tall at a job interview? The answer is
unfortunately the second a lot of the time.

Yes, there are cases where one bad apple spoils the bunch and you need to get
rid of him. In my experience, the bad apples are far more likely to be
managers than technical people (think about it: what sort of person wants to
boss others around?).

I see a much larger risk, for a medium-sized to large company, of driving out
technical expertise by focusing too much on interpersonal skills. In fact,
this may be exactly why larger companies tend to stagnate.

Smaller companies that survive more than a year or two already know how to
focus on talent.

------
thras
To quote scripture: "Hast thou seen a man speedy in his business? Before kings
he doth station himself, He stations not himself before obscure men!"

Modern paraphrase: Even Obama gets to put up with this guy's shit.

