
Secret pagan basilica in Rome emerges from the shadows after 2,000 years - diodorus
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/12005864/Secret-pagan-basilica-in-Rome-emerges-from-the-shadows-after-2000-years.html
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antoviaque
If, like me, you were wondering how buildings end up getting buried over long
periods of time:

"Until roads get paved, cities literally rise. That's because people bring
things into them at great effort -- mostly food -- but, in the absence of
cheap trucking, most of the waste gets dumped more or less in the city. Oyster
shells get tossed out of the tent. Chamberpots get emptied out the window.
Slowly, the accumulation of waste and junk raises the streets above the old
buildings, and ground floors become basements. There are mounds throughout the
Middle East that are nothing but layer upon layer of city waste, and of course
there are mounds in North America that are hundreds of years of discarded
oyster shells."

[http://ask.metafilter.com/237694/How-do-things-get-buried-
in...](http://ask.metafilter.com/237694/How-do-things-get-buried-in-dirt-over-
thousands-of-years) [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/813/how-come-
archae...](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/813/how-come-
archaeological-ruins-are-always-underground)

~~~
jhallenworld
These are called Tells:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell)

~~~
maxerickson
I really hope some awful person somewhere has named one William.

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nitrogen
The page started playing a video I couldn't immediately find, with audio, with
no interaction on my part (on a phone). So I immediately left. Advertisers:
this is why people use ad blockers.

~~~
lsh
Firefox on an Android phone can use the uBlock plugin.

~~~
nitrogen
Yes, the only reason I don't use mobile Firefox full time is it doesn't render
HN as well. I'll need to try again with the new HN stylesheet, and maybe then
I can learn about ancient Rome.

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joeyspn
It's funny that the then called "pagan" religions were _worshiping_ the earth
(like the celtics) and greek sciences (as reflected in this find)...

~~~
dalke
I think Neopythagoreanism is better described as coming from Hellenistic
philosophy than from Greek science.

Or rather, how does mysticism and numerology fit into science?

And
[http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoreanism/#4](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoreanism/#4)
says:

> Neopythagoreanism emerged again and developed further starting in the first
> century BCE and extending throughout the rest of antiquity and into the
> middle ages and Renaissance. During this entire period, it is the
> Neopythagorean construct of Pythagoras that dominates, a construct that has
> only limited contact with early Pythagoreanism; there is little interest in
> an historically accurate presentation of Pythagoras and his philosophy.

which makes it sound more like a mythical interpretation of what they believed
Hellenistic philosophy to be, than a religion based in Greek sciences.

As in the early Christian context, wouldn't 'pagan' most likely refer to the
religion of the dominant social group, the Romans, which worshiped neither the
earth nor science?

~~~
bencollier49
Paganus roughly meant "yokel", in the pejorative sense.

New religions tend to start in areas of high population and spread from there,
so at some point Christianity would have been the religion of the urban elite.

~~~
dalke
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism)
says:

> Medieval writers often assumed paganus as a religious term was a result of
> the conversion patterns during the Christianization of Europe, where people
> in towns and cities were converted more readily than those in remote
> regions, where old ways lingered. However, this idea has multiple problems.
> First, the word's usage as a reference to non-Christians pre-dates that
> period in history. Second, paganism within the Roman Empire centred on
> cities. The concept of an urban Christianity as opposed to a rural paganism
> would not have occurred to Romans during Early Christianity. Third, unlike
> words such as rusticitas, paganus had not yet fully acquired the meanings
> (of uncultured backwardness) used to explain why it would have been applied
> to pagans.[9]

> Paganus more likely acquired its meaning in Christian nomenclature via Roman
> military jargon (see above). Early Christians adopted military motifs and
> saw themselves as "Milites Christi" ("soldiers of Christ").[8][9] A good
> example of Christians still using paganus in a military context rather than
> religious is in Tertullian's De Corona Militis XI.V, where Christians are
> referred to as "paganus" (civilian)

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listic
So it took almost 100 years to restore it? Well, better late than never, I
guess.

~~~
toyg
It's Italy, they have quite a lot of stuff to look after and barely enough
money to pay salaries these days. In fact, they should probably threaten to
"pull an ISIS" and demolish something invaluable every once in a while, to see
if the rest of the world cares enough to pay for it.

~~~
carlob
No need to threaten to destroy anything, we've been letting Pompei crumble
down for a while already.

~~~
toyg
Yeah but that's not media-managed, it's just happening and that's it. It
doesn't make waves.

Instead, what if we waited for a slow-news week and then go to a public forum
and say "we're going to BLOW UP Pompei next month unless we get €1bn NOW". Of
course we'd be vilified, but hey, it's not like we have many options left.

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Patronus_Charm
This is truly remarkable, these efforts always peak my interest.

~~~
jjnoakes
Pique

