
Ask HN: What has been your biggest mistake? - dhotson
I'm keen to learn from failure, and what better way than to learn from the mistakes of others. :)<p>What are some of the biggest mistakes you've made.. and what have you learnt?
======
nostrademons
1\. Not majoring in computer science the _first_ time I quit my physics major.
If you like something, don't stay away from it for silly reasons (like
thinking that school will make you un-like it).

2\. Not knowing the difference between profitability and traction when I was
looking at startups to work for. I spent 2 years at a relatively low-growth
startup because I thought that its profits meant it was successful, when I
could've learned much more at a higher-growth yet unprofitable startup.

3\. Letting ideas sit too long. I had the idea for
<http://www.whatshallidonow.net/> about a week before I started implementing
it, but was busy with job apps. In the meantime, <http://nowdothis.com/>
launched, and now they have all the momentum.

4\. Spending too much time on super-ambitious projects and ignoring the low-
hanging fruit.

~~~
maxklein
You do realise that nowdothis has a better gui than yours, right? Given the
two services, I'd pick theirs.

~~~
13ren
they've got amazing simplicity, and done client-side so instant response
(remembers you with cookies, but seems to be no server storage). But you have
to do the tasks in strict order, and you have to finish it before moving on
(you can't just "make progress").

whatshallidonow changes the order. it has a "made progress" button. it would
be nice if it had a button "skip - I don't want to do this one right now!".
(tho you can achieve that effect by reloading, ctrl-r).

finally, the dothisnow guy gave a shoutout to our guy nostrademons here (and
also to yetanothersimilarsite)
<http://nowdothis.tumblr.com/post/44066616/synchronicity>

_now they have all the momentum._

"Your greatest competitor is non-usage."

That quote is not just encouraging, it's also literally true (unless your
market is >50% saturated). Plus, no two products are ever identical
(whatshallidonow is a slightly different idea), and no two users are either:
some like yours. However, I agree there are benefits to being first, #1, etc
(and it's more exciting).

------
gscott
I applied for a job at Lycos around 1997. I passed the simple phone interviews
and they scheduled an in-person interview. My wife did not want to make the
move it would take so I cancelled the interview. We still live in San Diego, I
feel if I was up in a more exciting environment I could have done better.

I instead joined this one startup of sorts, worked literally 15+ hour days
including Saturdays. Unfortunately it hit a rough patch and they could only
afford one programmer and I wasn't it. So the other guy now is making around
15k a month now. They hired me back but I make about a 3rd of that. The system
generates about 50k a month in free cash flow and I built all of the
fundamentals of the system.

------
jobeyonekenobi
.Getting a degree. Honestly, I didn't need it. Contentious subject I know, but
from the Hacker perspective, I have always relied on self learning in
concentrated bursts to get me through - want a thorough understanding of
TCP/IP? Spend 3 weekends going through the documentation and then playing
around. Not 6 months in rigidly structured classes with no leeway for
progression above and beyond what is in the curriculum. I could have got a job
that paid my pocket money, whilst learning more and coming out with less debt.
"but would this have paid off?" I hear everyone say. My degree or time in
education has absolutely no standing of where I am now, apart from the fact
that I feel I could have been here by early twenties instead of mid twenties

~~~
dhotson
I can understand this sentiment, but from my experience a lot of the value
from doing a degree isn't from what you learn in class.

For me, the biggest value came from meeting other like minded people and being
exposed to brand new concepts.

There's also value in learning how to finish things. I can understand that
people drop out (for many reasons) and that's fine, but I think it's important
to learn how to finish things off.

Although, knowing when to bail is probably also just as important. :)

------
luckystrike
I think the mistakes that can be classified as the 'biggest', are typically
the ones made in personal relationships. Those are the things that probably
cannot be mended/replaced with any other 'equivalents'.

In terms of career/work etc, i really do not think one needs to worry much or
brood over past decisions, we all got plenty of time (hopefully) to work
everything out as we want it to.

This quote sums up a lot of things nicely:

    
    
      The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one. -- Elbert Hubbard

------
babul
Not sleeping with more women. When I was younger, women were more plentiful
(and looking for relationships) but I spent most of my time in front of
computers.

Today, computers are more plentiful and most of the nice women I meet are
already married or in long term relationships.

~~~
time_management
I could understand if your regret were not dating, but is your only regret a
lack of sex? The "nice women" would be averse to marrying you if your number
got too high. From the perspective of a marriage-worthy woman, it's fine to be
a virgin till 23-25, and the ideal number for a 30-year-old male is probably
1-6.

How old are you? It seems that the odds get better for a guy until age 35.
When you're 20, the age range of women you'll be able to date is very limited:
approximately 18-21. When you're 35, it's 23-40. Gender ratios also improve
(from a male perspective) dramatically as you age, with noticeable effects in
dating. I'm 25 and loving it; I definitely don't miss being an acne-pwned,
insecure 19-year-old.

Also, if you're looking for marriage-worthy women, have you considered moving
abroad? The only reason I still live in the US is that New York is very, very
international. I would not be able to stand it if the only women available for
dating were white, suburban Americans.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Wow, what a difference in perspective. I couldn't imagine wanting to marry a
woman who even cared about the number of women I've slept with. My wife and I
were both very "friendly" before we met each other and neither of us has ever
even bothered to ask the other how many people we've slept with. It simply
doesn't matter to me.

I wonder what your criteria for "marriage-worthy woman" is.

------
Alex3917
Thinking other people are dumb. Even if it were true, it has yet to get me
anywhere.

~~~
qhoxie
I could not agree more on this point. It seems like this comes up all too
often in design discussions, and it is difficult to get around in a productive
manner.

------
abstractbill
I used to have regrets. For much of my early 20s, I thought not having tried
to make music professionally was a mistake. Then, later, I worked at
Macrovision and saw the music business up-close and was very glad not to be
part of it! Similarly, for a couple of years after my PhD I regretted not
staying in academia. Working for a startup has completely cured me of that
regret.

I guess I've learned that something you believe to be a mistake today can turn
out to have been a smart move given a year or two's hindsight.

------
nickfox
Not getting it in writing. It doesn't have to be a long drawn out contract,
just a short email explaining what the agreement is. Even amongst friends, you
will never regret having an email stating your agreement.

~~~
jyothi
Trusting the level of integrity, gratification posed by founders/managers and
slogging my ass for their success. Reminds me of Austin Wiltshire's blog on
New hire Cannon fodder.

------
menloparkbum
startup-wise:

1\. working as employee #6 at a startup in boston instead of google in 2001.

2\. working as employee #6 at a startup in SF instead of youtube in 2005.

whoops!

~~~
helveticaman
I feel for you, dude...I hope there's no number 3 next time someone asks you
this question.

~~~
mrtron
I hope he doesn't decide to go anywhere again as employee #6. I am not
normally superstitious, but I would avoid that like the plague going forward.

'Oh you currently have 5 employees? That is too bad...' :)

~~~
helveticaman
Totally. It wouldn't be pure superstition either; a 6th employee commands a
certain amount of stock, a certain amount of wages, and is hired at a certain
stage.

------
aneesh
Not saying "no" enough. Trying to do too much, and doing none of it well.

So work on a small task you can complete rather than trying to tackle a giant
problem you'll never finish.

------
johnyzee
I spent a year after college goofing off, and not in the good way either. When
I finally woke up (literally, pretty much) and realized a whole year had
passed by I had lost a lot of momentum. Otherwise I would definitely have
completed my master's (or at least worked on something useful). I blame social
security.

But at least I came through - I had friends that time who are dead now (one
overdosed on heroin, one crashed a stolen car while a fugitive from prison).

------
timcederman
My PhD. Sure I learnt lots of great stuff and met some great people - but I
could've done all that with a master's.

~~~
daveambrose
What did you get a PhD in?

~~~
timcederman
Human Computer Interaction. Specifically, I wrote about using participatory
and user centred design for implementing ubiquitous computing systems in non-
office environments (in order to improve HCI).

------
cubix
Spending the first half of my twenties working my guts out for a big
corporation where my efforts went largely unnoticed outside of my immediate
sphere. I'm certain that if I put that time into a start-up I would be much
better off today -- even if it failed.

~~~
nostrademons
I'm kinda curious - is there anyone who _doesn't_ regret their twenties? We've
got three posts regretting working for the _wrong_ startup (mine,
menloparkbum, and gscott), one working for a big company (yours), one going to
grad school (timcederman), one getting a degree (jobeyonekenobi), and one
doing nothing (johnyzee). So apparently working for a small company is bad,
working for a big company is bad, not working is bad, and getting educated is
bad. What _should_ one be doing?

~~~
pavelludiq
start a band, buy a bike and travel, get arrested for something stupid, have
fun.

~~~
nostrademons
I know some folks that did that and regretted it. Well, maybe not the travel
part, but I've got various friends that have started bands/gotten arrested/had
fun and kinda wish they hadn't.

------
tc7
Graduated with BA in comp.sci at 19 y.o. (not a mistake), then immediately
took job doing web support stuff with big (non-tech) company.

In retrospect, I would have loved to look at more options (like starting my
own company), but a) I honestly wasn't even aware of the y-combinator sorts of
opportunities, b) I was engaged to be married, and felt pressure to be
'stable', and c) didn't think there was anything interesting in my area (and
didn't want to leave).

So now (at 22) I'm working on a solo startup solo, in bits and pieces on the
side. I just don't want to be like all the 30-year people surrounding me. Or
the 10 year people. Or even the cynical, tired person I see myself becoming,
all too rapidly ;). Must... not... give... in...

------
icey
#1 with a bullet: listening to the hype.

------
msg
I was a National Merit Finalist, honors student, and such. I didn't go out and
get scholarships for college. I stayed in-state instead of going out for my
own adventure. When I got to college, I didn't know what I was doing with
myself and bombed pretty badly. I wasted a lot of time and effort. I didn't
drop out to figure things out though. I took out a lot of student loans, and
didn't even finish undergrad first time around.

I think a lot of my problem was not biting the bullet and making the hard
choices after that first mistake. Instead, I dug myself deeper every time. I'm
still paying the loans, but once I figured out what I really wanted, it was
not so hard to work to get it.

------
gunderson
1) Granting people respect just because they are older than I am.

2) Not moving to San Francisco sooner.

~~~
swombat
I only respect three things:

* Competence

* Knowledge

* Experience

In that order. In fact, I only really respect the first one, but I've found
that the other two can be very strong indicators of the first, and it's
generally a bad bet to assume that someone who's clearly more experienced
and/or knowledgeable than you on a topic is not also more competent (at least
in some way).

------
pavelludiq
I didn't have the guts to ask this one girl out.

~~~
Hexstream
I did and she basically spit in my face...

~~~
pavelludiq
I envy you my friend.

------
watmough
Not listening to my own ideas.

------
picnichouse
Not playing football in 6th grade. I would have been a completely different
person, I believe.

~~~
menloparkbum
Football meaning soccer or american gridiron? I played the latter and the
injuries I took affect me to this day. Back in the day, nobody mentioned the
100% injury rate - i.e. anyone who plays football will eventually get hurt bad
enough they can't play. Thus, as I type this from bed, because one of my
slipped discs has acted up, I have the opposite opinion - playing football was
one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made.

~~~
Alex3917
Almost every sport has a 100% injury rate where you eventually get hurt bad
enough you can't play anymore. The trick is choosing a sport where the most
common injuries prevent you from playing the sport but don't prevent you from
walking. A good percentage of swimmers eventually develop shoulder injuries,
but (AFAIK) that doesn't prevent you from doing anything except swimming.

~~~
jraines
maybe the 100% rate is true, but not 100% career-ending injuries.

Most people quit playing a given sport seriously because they have to choose
between that and making money.

I swam for 4 years in college and I only know 1 person who had a career ending
shoulder injury, and that one because it was misdiagnosed for a year.

OTOH everyone I know who played football at any level has at least a minor
nagging injury.

~~~
mrtron
I have played hockey for many years and know quite a few people who have done
the same. I can't think of anyone with a long term injury.

I suppose it is reflected in 'old timer beer leagues'. There are a few 50 year
old guys on my team right now, and they can play fine they are just slower.
Sames holds for baseball.

Even though football isn't that popular here - most of the guys I know that
did play with hopes of making it big in the US college system ended up
injured.

------
stanley
Focusing on quality rather than volume.

------
jnovek
Talking about regrets and mistakes s a funny thing. There is an implied
hypothetical there -- like, "If I had made a different choice, I would be a in
a better place."

Take, for example, my (admittedly foolish) decision to drop out of the
University after a year and go to community college part-time for a year. It
should have been a bust, but I ended up meeting my wife (who was working on
her generals) there. I met another great friend on my second run at the
University. Now my wife and this friend are my co-founders for my startup...
both of whom I possibly would've never known if I hadn't gone to the community
college.

Now, I'm not saying that there is no such thing as bad choices, or that I have
no regrets about things I've done -- I think it's natural for us to regret
things that we perceive as mistakes. But I'm pretty happy right now in spite
of any problems that I might have, and as far as choices contribute to our
happiness, mine have worked out well. It's hard for me to describe choices
that have made me happy as "mistakes".

------
aschobel
Not launching soon enough and waiting until the product was "perfect".

------
charlesju
I think this is in terms of startup mistakes, seeing as how "life mistakes"
could start an entirely new forum all together.

Here are my top 3:

1\. Wasting money on a legal entity. If you're not making money, you cannot be
sued. Wait until you make money or have someone willing to give you money
before you waste money on protecting yourself.

2\. Bad business partners. Judge your partners not by how much you like them
but if they'll complement your skillz, add value to the team, and are
dedicated to the project.

3\. Not saying no. It's a personal problem, I'm a really nice guy, it's hard
for me to say no sometimes, but it's necessary. It's not personal, it's
business.

~~~
icey
Your #1 item is dangerously wrong. If you're not making money you can still be
sued for personal assets (house, car, etc); and if you don't have those, you
can be sued for debt.

~~~
mattmaroon
I'm baffled as to how he could actually believe that. Also, the cost of
forming an LLC to insulate yourself against that is trivial.

~~~
charlesju
You cannot get sued for having a site that isnt charging anything because
youre not giving any legal consideration. Without legal consideration, there
is no contract between you and your user base. Thus, while you technically can
still be sued, having that case go anywhere is very unlikely.

Of course if youre doing something legally grey like youtube or file sharing,
then perhaps you should incorporate. But without any assets in the company,
the corporate liability will most likely be pierced in court.

As for a LLC. Its nice but you should really do a ccorp if youre serious about
business, and changing from a LLC to a ccorp is a pain in the butt. Or so I
hear.

To go further, I challenge you to show me a single case of a company being
sued that wasnt doing something legally grey and not making any money.

~~~
icey
Applying your litmus test means that no OSS company has ever been (or will
ever be) sued for patent infringement.

It is difficult to have a corporate veil pierced on the basis of assets held
alone, and there are specific conditions in place in every state that must be
met in order to pierce the corporate veil. Which you've actually argued for
yourself in your claim that a C Corp is the entity that you want to use in
order to protect yourself from liability, because that is the basis of most of
the corporate law in the US.

I just think you're advocating gambling with your personal assets when you
could just as easily spend $1000 to $1500 to have a professional set up your
corporation and have some level of protection. Additionally, you could throw
in a few hundred bucks and insure the new corporation against liabilities. The
last time I purchased a policy, it cost me something like $300 a year to carry
a $2,000,000 liability policy.

I bet most people starting a startup have spent more than that on the laptop
they use.

[Edit: Maybe there is a lawyer who reads YC who can clarify all this stuff for
us]

~~~
charlesju
Icey: Do you know ANY open source foundation that has been SUCCESSFULLY sued
for damages? Give me ONE example.

At the end of the day. It's financial decision. Think of ALL the startups ever
created for the web, the amount of money/time to understand to create the
limited liability shelter, and how many of these examples of these shoe-string
startups (those without funding or serious traction) actually get successfully
sued for damages.

The odds are, very very very very very small. And ok, while my personal advice
might not be for everyone. I am currently almost broke, so for me, it makes no
difference if they come after my personal assets because I can just file ch.
7, as opposed to the amount of capital and money and upkeep that comes with
any form of limited liability.

If you think I'm wrong, digg me down, but note how no one has (1) shown a
counter example or (2) has given advice from the standpoint of a seasoned
lawyer.

~~~
icey
I'm not a historian, nor am I a legal expert, that's far outside my realm of
expertise. However, just because I can't personally name an example of that
happening doesn't mean that it "cannot" happen.

I was merely pointing out that the advice you were dispensing was risky and
negligent. That is still the case; I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you,
as you're the one making spurious claims.

"Cannot" is a world of difference from "not likely to".

------
skinny
1\. too much cocaine. really, it makes you feel like you can conquer anything
and anyone, but it is totally not worth it. 2\. learning any Windows based
programming languages. seriously, what a waste of time.

------
morbidkk
havent dared to make enough mistakes yet

~~~
dhotson
Be brave! I wanna hear some horror stories! :D

------
fiaz
Listening too seriously to others. People like to give "advice" from their
perspective and because such advice is through their own lens of reality it
might be true for them, but not for you.

------
johns
Compromising the long-term product vision for short-term gains.

------
misterbwong
Biggest Regret: Waiting too long.

Examples: I wish I learned to program sooner. I wish I started playing
basketball sooner. Etc...

I _still_ find myself doing this, although less now than before.

------
brentr
Quitting work in the physics lab at the University of Florida my freshman year
and then switching from a physics and mathematics major to a finance major.

------
icky
My worst mistakes were in doing what was expected of me, rather than what I
wanted to do.

------
kirpekar
Wow, interesting topic. Some months ago, I started a little (non commercial)
website that would do exactly this: ask people what they regret and record it
for others.

<http://www.regrett.com>

------
qhoxie
Not focusing on ideas that interested me, but rather ones that interested
others.

------
vaksel
try to hold on as much equity as you can

------
ptn
Not having looked for a scholarship to get me to a real university. Now I'm
stuck here. I'm in my 4th year (1 more to go), if I transferred I'd be in 2.5
or something.

------
goodgoblin
Not focusing on a single product. We moved into a related sphere because our
technology applied, but doing it part-time we ended up shortchanging both.

------
rokhayakebe
Given up to early.

------
YuriNiyazov
Not quitting sooner the startup where I had to learn J2EE.

------
fallentimes
Majoring in finance.

------
vineet7kumar
afraid of making mistakes .

------
flashgordon
Most of the below!!! (except playing football and doing physics!!)

~~~
breck
Sorry to downvote you, but there are no mistakes below your comment. It was a
mistake to think HN comments are statically positioned. :)

~~~
flashgordon
i still dont understand the how downvoting actually works here... i found i
just got downvoted on a different thread for no apparent reason.... what the?
oh well such is life :D

------
time_management
I'm good at rolling with the punches, so I haven't yet been smashed by a big
mistake, although I've made plenty. I usually recover from those, and come
back bigger and badder.

I have, however, lost a lot to the petty time-wasters and energy drains that
eventually lead to missing opportunities for growth.

