
One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla - sndean
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/where-is-vanilla-grown
======
AKifer
And it's even grown only in 2 very specific regions in the north of the island
(where most of the cocoa production also come from). There's still huge
opportunities if you have enough money and appetite for adventure to start a
trading or setting up a plantation. 1ha yields on average 300-400 kg of dried
vanilla, a process that takes on average 6-8 months from manual pollination to
end of drying. Madagascar is quite strict on land property though, and it's
one of the hot topics on the political landscape right now, foreign investors
most of the time work with trusted local proxy to set up the business. I
myself plan to trip to the vanilla producing region in the following months to
see how it works, would be so cool to run a vanilla startup. One more thing,
vanilla extract and vanilla caviar are even more valuable than the dried
vanilla, and still at the hands of very few businesses. P.S. I live in
Madagascar

~~~
matthewwiese
A "vanilla startup" is perhaps one of the most interesting ideas I've read in
HN comments these past few weeks.

If I may ask, are you from Madagascar or an expat? This is all quite new
information to me so I am fascinated to learn more. Are there any sources you
would recommend?

~~~
thx11389793
OT, but why are immigrants called expats when they're from anglophone nations?

~~~
freeflight
This might get me some flak, but IMHO it's an unconscious double standard for
many people and it's also not exclusive to the English language.

Germans do something similar, a German who moves to another country, even if
it's Thailand for retirement or because life in Germany supposedly doesn't
work for them, is called an "Auswanderer" and usually has a rather positive
connotation of being "worldly" and well traveled.

Guess how many people call immigrants "Einwanderer" with a positive
connotation? Pretty much nobody.

Some might argue there's an economic dimension to this, like German pensioners
bringing their money to the other country, but that also doesn't always apply:
There are plenty of Germans who are migrating because they have economic
troubles in Germany and think they could work it better elsewhere.

As unbelievable as that might sound to most people outside of Germany, there
are so many of them that VOX Germany has a whole Docu-Soap about Germans
migrating to other countries, and it's been running for nearly 12 years with
great success [0].

[0]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye_Deutschland!_Die_Auswa...](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye_Deutschland!_Die_Auswanderer)

~~~
tormeh
I don't think it matters what they are called. The connotations are attached
to the people, not the word. Change the words and it becomes a euphemism
treadmill.

~~~
freeflight
> The connotations are attached to the people, not the word.

Language is a living thing.

If you reserve usage of certain terminology to specific people, then negative
connotations can easily attach themselves to both of them in combination, thus
fundamentally changing how positive/negative certain terminology is perceived
by the general population.

We've been witnessing this live, in reality, for these past years: If you talk
about "immigrant crime" often enough many people will see most, if not all,
crime in the context of supposedly increasing immigration.

Completely ignoring any other contributing factors to crime, completely
ignoring actual crime statistics and trends. [0]

[0] [https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-
analysis/statistics/...](https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-
analysis/statistics/reports-on-world-crime-trends.html)

------
ryanworl
A slightly more up-beat version: A single county in Pennsylvania grows 50% of
the mushrooms in the United States.

[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/this-small-
pennsylvania-...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/this-small-pennsylvania-
region-produces-half-the-mushroom-crop-in-the-u-s)

~~~
toomanybeersies
Another interesting geographically focused product is rhubarb and the 9 square
mile Rhubarb Triangle:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhubarb_Triangle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhubarb_Triangle)

At one point they grew 90% of the worlds forced rhubarb (a special kind of
rhubarb grown indoors).

~~~
Grue3
Weird that rhubarb is native to Russia and yet I've never seen it commercially
grown there. My folks had a few plants grown in our _ogorod_ , and made a
delicious drink out of it. But now that I live in the city, I don't see any
rhubarb jelly or drinks in the supermarkets.

------
makmanalp
> it's one of the few regions with the right climate that is also poor enough
> to make laborious hand-pollination affordable

It's not like I didn't know that this is how the world works, but this
specific case is even more of a slap in the face. It's kinda fucked up to
think that in the local specialty store merely a couple pods of vanilla (a few
grams each) go for 6-7 dollars, but these folks live in poverty. But more
fucked up is the implication that to keep vanilla prices down we specifically
maintain these conditions, because of cheap labor.

Oh well, the artificial stuff for me from now on.

~~~
DiffEq
Just because there is cheap labor here does not mean they live in poverty; in
fact they do not. The cost and standard of living is much lower so the wage is
not as bad as you think. Sure they don't drive BMWs and don't get their coffee
at Starbucks or have a $1000 iphone but they are far from living in "poverty";
since the definition of "poverty" is poorly constructed. In any case lets say
we accept they live in poverty - the agricultural sales of this product and
other such products are all they have to hope for. The main problem is with
the years if government/military corruption and strife. If that was rid of the
country would be wealthy. By not buying their products you help to worsen the
poverty; if you do buy, there is hope that the money will eventually improve
things. But if they have no money - things will not be improved and this
market will shift elsewhere eventually.

[http://www.borgenmagazine.com/why-is-madagascar-
poor/](http://www.borgenmagazine.com/why-is-madagascar-poor/)

~~~
tch_
I'm not sure if you're trying to argue whether or not many Malagasy people
live in poverty, but assuming you are: have you been to Madagascar?

Much of the island's vanilla is grown in the northeast region of the country,
called the SAVA region, named after the towns of Sambava, Andapa, Vohemar, and
Anthala. The sole overland connection to the rest of the island is a dirt road
that goes through desert and is nearly impassable during the rainy season;
during the dry season, it can take 6-8 hours to traverse. Other options are
either lengthy boat trips or flights. Many of the Malagasy people live in huts
that are either bamboo or corrugated metal, with little or no indoor plumbing
and small solar panels for electricity. Over 100 people died last year from an
out break of the bubonic plague due to very poor healthcare. If that is not
poverty, what is?

That said, many of the Malagasy people do seem quite happy despite the living
conditions.

~~~
jopsen
Maybe if GP had said "extreme poverty" it would have been more true.

The world has lots of poverty, but we are on track to rid ourselves of extreme
poverty. Hopefully, it'll keep going up from there...

------
rch
Growing your own vanilla isn't difficult, but it requires more greenhouse
space than you might imagine. The plant grows like a vine, and it'll need to
reach about 20' with multiple points of ground contact before producing pods.

 _(as explained to me by an orchid enthusiast)_

~~~
sov
AS someone _with_ vanilla, I'm gonna disagree with you a bit here.

Growing your own vanilla is very difficult ( __assuming you 're not in a place
where it grows outside naturally). Not only do you need a significant amount
of greenhouse space (you're right--20' minimum to flower, but the vines can
grow up to 120'), you also need all the very specific orchid growing
conditions--low water/nutrient, high drainage soil (or bark or similar
medium), high brightness (but medium direct sun--can't let 'em burn), along
with a very high humidity (vanilla orchids grow best ~80-90% humidity) and
high heat (ideally not dipping any lower than 15 C, but with a bit of wiggle
room). They have aerial roots, so you also need to mist with diluted nutrient
mix (preferably an x-x-x fertilizer (eg: 20-20-20)) for them to get any
particular growth benefit.

Assuming you can provide these conditions, you'll have to continue to provide
these conditions for ~5-7 years, which is how long vanilla takes to grow from
seed. Most people, however, take clippings from already healthy plants.
Clippings need all the same care and effort of growing from seed, but won't
flower 'til they're established and ~20 feet long (and the temperature
controls are on-point for flowering), so how long they take depends on a bunch
of factors, but even for a 3' clipping, you're looking at ~5 years.

So, let's say you have flowering-capable vines, at least 20', properly cared
for with appropriate temperature controls to compel flowering. The vanilla
flowers for _one day_. Furthermore, the pollination of the one-day flower must
occur by hand (you _cannot_ use natural pollinators--there's only one species
of bee capable of pollinating this thing and they're not only isolated to a
very specific geographic location, but they're also rather rare).

Presuming your pollination is successful it still takes, at this about, about
9-10 months for the vanilla pods to form. You'll get long green-bean lookin'
things. You have to pick them as they begin to turn yellow--kinda like
bananas. But the fun doesn't stop here. At this point you _still_ have to
blanche the yellowing beans, then let them sweat in a container for several
weeks until you _finally_ end up with usable vanilla pods that you might find
in a store.

The process is extremely involved, incredibly time consuming and each step has
a number of 'gotchas' that will ruin your vine/flowering/pollination/beans.
The big effort is literally just keeping up with the very specific
humidity/light/temperature/nutrient requirements for so long to even get it
_to be_ flowering capable.

~~~
Endama
Wow, that is insane. I wonder if there is some kind of opportunity here for
automation and vertical farming to create economies of scale for the mass
production of vanilla?

~~~
sov
The big problem is the manual pollination and harvesting. Growing the vanilla
can be done with a suitable climate in many tropical locales, but pollination
requires a lot of care--you need to balance getting deep enough to actually
pollinate the plant with being gentle enough to not destroy the plant. Most
vanilla farmers have special tools they use to cut away parts of the flower
and quickly pollinate it.

~~~
samatman
For pollination, a hummingbird-sized drone is not as far-fetched as it might
sound.

------
zaroth
I paid $32 for a 32oz jug of vanilla extract off Amazon back in 2015.

I just checked and the same container is now $140! [1]

I’m going to have to start rationing!

Check out the price graph:

[https://camelcamelcamel.com/Nielsen-Massey-Madagascar-
Bourbo...](https://camelcamelcamel.com/Nielsen-Massey-Madagascar-Bourbon-
Vanilla-Extract/product/B001GE8N4Y)

[1] -
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GE8N4Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qJtl...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GE8N4Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qJtlBbV1156XV)

~~~
H1Supreme
Why so much? Do you own a bakery or something?

~~~
zaroth
Haha. No, but it never goes bad and I really liked paying $1/oz instead of
more like $4/oz for the tiny bottles at the supermarket.

I do tend to make French toast for the kids a couple times a week, so we do
use quite a bit. I usually just kinda splash it in the bowl, I guess I have to
start measuring now!

------
reificator
Is that really a problem if you can supply the world's needs with 5 plants?

One of the older "life hacks" is to put a teaspoon of vanilla extract in the
oven to make the house smell better. Speaking from experience: don't use more
than that or you will regret it. I couldn't visit their house for a week.

~~~
CLGrimes
Which 5 plants are you referring to?

~~~
dflock
Probably: rice, wheat, cassava, potato, banana?

You obviously need to eat some other stuff occasionally, but those plants are
the staple diet for a large chunk of the world population.

~~~
twothamendment
It is old, but potato alone will get you pretty far:
[https://www.livescience.com/10163-man-eating-
potatoes-2-mont...](https://www.livescience.com/10163-man-eating-
potatoes-2-months.html)

I'd need some variety just so I didn't go insane.

------
njarboe
One island the size of France.

~~~
azinman2
Ya exactly. It might technically be an island, but calling it that makes it
sound way smaller than it is.

------
seren
To save you a click, that island is Madagascar.

~~~
klez
Ok, thanks, but there's more to the article than what island it is.

~~~
seren
I agree the article is interesting in itself, however the title is needlessly
clickbaity.

------
Felz
Keep in mind that 5/6ths of the vanillin used for flavoring is synthetic.

~~~
plopz
Imitation vanilla extract is also better in many cases as it can tolerate the
high heat of baking where natural vanilla doesn't do as well.

~~~
crimsonalucard
Although technically correct, imitation is a deceptive term. Vanillin is the
key flavoring agent found in vanilla. Synthesizing vanillin is not creating an
imitation, it is synthesizing the exact same compound that exists in nature.

There is literally no point in growing vanilla to extract vanillin if vanillin
can be synthesized artificially for much cheaper. Though if you're going for
compounds other than vanillin that exist within the vanilla plant itself...
that's a different story.

------
pkulak
I've found fake vanilla extract to be indistinguishable in all cooking, and
far cheaper. I'm far more worried about the world's coffee supplies. :/

~~~
Scaevolus
Madagascar provides 0.3% of the world's coffee-- you'll be fine :-)
[http://www.ico.org/prices/po-production.pdf](http://www.ico.org/prices/po-
production.pdf)

Artificial vanilla flavoring (vanillin) is actually preferred for many
applications where the alcohol in true vanilla extract can't evaporate off and
will harm the flavor more than the extra aromatic compounds will help.

------
Alex3917
There are tons of plants that have the same flavor profile as vanilla, just
not ones that retain their flavor when dried for years on end. But if you're
just making ice cream, you could just as easily use black locust flowers or
whatever and no one would know the difference.

~~~
markbnj
Sure, most natural flavorings have artificial substitutes, but there is a
market for the natural products even if nobody could really distinguish them
by taste alone.

~~~
FreeFull
This comment reads a bit like a non-sequitur, given Alex was talking about
natural substitutes for vanilla, and not artificial ones.

~~~
markbnj
Good point, hastily written and deserves the down votes :). I really meant to
say that some people want natural vanilla, and will pay for it.

------
parrellel
Is any one else going to call bull on Madagascar being described as "One
Island" It's the size of the entire North East. It's twice the size of
Britain.

The rest of the article's fine, but, really, click-bait much.

------
huy-nguyen
You can dive into more details about world trade in vanilla (who export/import
it and to whom, how has the composition of exporters/importers changed over
time etc) with this app:

[http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/explore/?country=undefined&part...](http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/explore/?country=undefined&partner=undefined&product=730&productClass=HS&startYear=undefined&target=Product&year=2016)

Disclaimer: I'm part of the team that made the app.

------
specializeded
Pro tip: if you’re near the border or a Mexican grocery store, Mexican Vanilla
is _absurdly_ cheaper!

~~~
Finnucane
And right now, if you're anywhere else, you can't get Mexican vanilla at all.
Last year I got a half a pound for $55, today the usual dealers are all out.
What vanilla they have is going for $300 or more per pound. Back in 2005, when
there was a similar shortage, the market collapsed almost literally overnight
when there was a better harvest in Madagascar, but there's really high demand
now. A few years ago you could get PNG vanilla for $20 per pound.

------
lordnacho
> In 1841, one young innovator figured out an unlikely solution. Edmond Albius
> was a 12-year-old slave on the French-controlled island of Réunion, in the
> Indian Ocean. Using a stick and his thumb, Albius pushed together the male
> anthers and female stigma of the vanilla flower, pollinating it efficiently.

Did nobody think of this until years after vanilla was discovered? Really?

What's really interesting is how comparative advantage takes shape. There's
several everyday products that originate in just one or a few places.
Additional question: why isn't Mexico the main producer?

~~~
selectodude
Because every single vanilla pod needs to be hand pollinated, and the labor in
Mexico is too expensive.

------
kolbe
*One island roughly the size of Nebraska, Iowa and Illinois combined.

------
dghughes
It's quite delicate work to hand pollinate vanilla orchids this guy tried it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Pguwl9c1Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Pguwl9c1Q)

------
chrisbennet
Why they don't they grow it in Mexico? I'm missing something I know. It would
seem that having bees pollinate the vanilla flowers in Mexico would be cheaper
than having people do it in Madagascar. Thoughts?

~~~
oxymoron
It’s like this with almost all crops. In their natural habitat there are also
pests which has evolved to parasite the plant. This usually makes large scale
agriculture difficult or even impossible. By moving a crop to some place far
away you remove the natural enemies of the crop, which makes growing the crop
much easier, at least for a grace period of a few decades, or even a few
centuries.

~~~
chrisbennet
Thanks! Learned something new today.

------
killjoywashere
The silver:vanilla ratio really drove home that it's not just "location,
location, location" but the rise in global population _and_ global incomes
drives the value of 'location'.

------
aportnoy
Madagascar isn't the smallest island on Earth, you know.

~~~
astine
Indeed, Madagascar is larger than many nations. It's not surprising that a
single nation should dominate trade in a particular good. About 60% of the
world's cork comes from the Spain and Portugal which together have about the
same landmass as Madagascar.

------
mc32
I wonder why they can’t import the necessary bees and eliminate most of the
manual labor from the process?

~~~
gattr
An interesting challenge: build a small tree/pole-climbing robot that would
methodically pollinate all flowers (manipulators, image recognition).

~~~
lostlogin
See my reply to a comment with the same great grand parent. It’s suprisingly
complicated and seems tricky for even skilled humans.

------
stcredzero
Isn't the real question, whether or not we can cultivate the Melipona bee in
greenhouses?

------
jacquesm
Something similar is the case with Maple syrup.

~~~
sneak
The island of Canada.

~~~
jacquesm
Not really. A very large %age of Canadian Maple syrup comes from St. Josephs
Island in Ontario.

------
coldseattle
One island grows 99% of the world’s kangaroos.

------
hotdog97
So, I assume everyone else's first thought after reading this was: Let's build
a vanilla flower pollination robot using deep learning to process RGB camera
images and help guide the robot actuators. Startup, anyone?

Edit: turns out this is, in fact, not a unique thought:

"Implementation of Automated Vanilla Pollination Robotic Crane Prototype,
2017":

[https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1109/SYSOSE.2017.79949...](https://sci-
hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1109/SYSOSE.2017.7994929)

(No deep learning, but I guess these people weren't desperate for funding.)

~~~
metiscus
I think if you could work a blockchain in there somewhere you might have an
idea worth funding. ;)

------
atomical
Bill Penzey likes to send out political emails to his customers as well. He
requested that Trump voters apologize. It's hard to take anything he says
seriously because of his poor business acumen.

------
ggg9990
One island contains 100% of the world’s Mongolians — Eurasia.

~~~
saagarjha
I’m sure there are Mongolians living in the United States and elsewhere.

