
Apple sues Polish grocery store over the letter A - martokus
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/09/10/apple-reportedly-suing-polish-online-supermarket-trademarking-name-a-pl/
======
noonespecial
Sounds like someone from management needs to head down to legal and tell them
that maybe now might not be the best time in the world to make themselves look
like a bunch of courtroom bullies as billions (with a b) of dollars are riding
on their pending cases. (Public opinion notwithstanding)

The job of management is to tell legal that sometimes even though you _can_ do
something, you probably _shouldn't_. I'm sure in this case some sharp legal
tack will start in with something about defending trademarks to keep them in
force etc. _This is where a manager takes some responsibility and decides that
that's a acceptable risk in order to keep the company from looking like a
cosmic dick._

~~~
mbesto
Playing devil's advocate here...

Does the general public really care about a company bullying other companies
legally? Are consumers _really_ not going to buy a specific product because
the company is suing an insignificant company? And if so, how much is
impacting sales? I realize there probably is not enough substantial evidence
to support a rational conclusion to this question. However, considering EVERY
large company does this, I don't see how this is going to harm the bottom
line.

Is it unethical? That's another question.

ps- I do agree with most people here that these legal arguments are getting
quite asinine.

~~~
InclinedPlane
I find it hilarious that this question can even be asked in regard to Apple.

Apple benefits enormously from the public perception of "the Apple brand", and
that translates directly into massive profits for Apple's bottom line. If the
public became more Apple skeptical it would put a dent in their business to
the tune of billions. Look at Microsoft and the difficulties they are still
having due to being saddled as an uncool company.

Edit: People are still proud to show their support for Apple. How would that
change if people changed their perception of Apple? Apple is one of the
largest and most profitable companies in the history of Earth. And they are
guilty of no small number of abuses and crimes, against their workers, against
their competitors, against their users. How would Apple's business fare if
people began perceiving Apple in the same way they perceived Exxon?

~~~
terminus
Then again, being Exxon hasn't harmed Exxon's bottomline. Granted, consumer
goods might be a whole different ballgame.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Exxon's marketplace is largely commoditized, which is part of the reason they
act how they do, Apple's marketplace could not be more different.

~~~
mbesto
Personal computers aren't a commodity?

~~~
praptak
Nope. A barrel of oil from Exxon is undistinguishable from any other barrel of
oil traded at the exchanges. This is not the case with say, Thinkpads vs
Macbooks.

Quote wikipedia: _"A commodity has full or partial fungibility; that is, the
market treats it as equivalent or nearly so no matter who produces it."_ So
nope, definitely not (yet) the case with computers.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Yet oddly for more the case with "the cloud"

I am hopeful that openstack will give me a large range of providers I can use
with the same Apis - and that my app design will be sufficient that even the
remaining non fungible parts of a hosted computer (OS, connectivity, size of
data stored) will be mitigated

I am not sure if it's a good or a bad thing but pretty soon every computer
other than the ones I carry will be commodities

------
lifeisstillgood
This is a trademark dispute - and there is one simple rule in International
trademarks. If you stop defending your trademark _every time_ , then you lose
it.

No-one at apple seriously thinks a polish supermarket is going to trade on the
apple brand. But because it's close enough, they must sue. Otherwise the
polish laptop maker who releases pomme d'terre range will be able to get in.

If you don't beleve me, paint a red triangle outside your stall in Dar es
salaam and see how fast the nabisco lawyers hit you.

It's life.

What is bad is there is not a word of damage control from Apple - with Jobs
gone they no longer get the benefit of the doubt - and so IMO should explain
every piece of evil / seeming evil they do very clearly. Just not in their DNA
though.

~~~
gizzlon
_"If you stop defending your trademark every time, then you lose it.."_

But is suing really the _only_ way to defend a trademark? If what you say is
true, why don't we see a lot more of these? It can't be that hard to come up
with similar "trade mark infringements" that nobody cares about? Or??

~~~
jballanc
Yes. After a trademark has been granted, suing is the way you defend your
trademark. Also, there have been more of these...a lot more. Perhaps you
remember Apple suing NYC over their NYC Green apple logo or the Victoria
School of Business and Technology over their apple-shaped logo or Woolworths
Limited over their logo? ...and those are just the ones conveniently listed on
the list of trademark litigation from this wikipedia page:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Trademark...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Trademarks.2C_Copyrights.2C_and_Patents)

------
buster
No, that's correct. Apple obviously invented everything round, be it rounded
icons or apples. And everything starting with a and having "pl" somewhere in
it's name.

Actually, i think Apple should sue everyone selling real apples or eating
apples and every company that uses the words application, apprentice,
appointment but also everything containing jobs, steve and silverish designs.

But also they should be able to sue everyone for this but use LTE technology
for free. Or the shitload of stuff others invented, like the smartphone or
GSM.

------
ajuc
Apple just given much more publicity to A.pl, than it could ever buy with its
marketing budget :)

Also the case will take 5 years and nothing will come out of it. That's how
Polish courts work, and that's why nobody sues over stupid details like this
in Poland.

~~~
Tichy
But how many readers of HN will be likely to shop in Poland?

~~~
geedee77
Are you American? Not being critical but I notice a lot of Americans seem to
think that HN is only in America.

~~~
Tichy
No, just thinking that HN is a tiny fraction of the world population in
general.

------
codeka
This reminds me of a few years ago when Apple tried to get Woolworths (a
supermarket chain in Australia) to stop using their new logo (a "W" styled in
the shape of an apple)[1].

Apple lost that one, and I suspect that they'll probably lose this one, too.

[1]: [http://www.smh.com.au/technology/biz-tech/apple-claims-
wooli...](http://www.smh.com.au/technology/biz-tech/apple-claims-woolies-is-
getting-fresh-with-new-logo-20091004-ghxe.html)

~~~
hadem
Also see:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_Jack%27s#History_of_.22...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_Jack%27s#History_of_.22Burger_King.22_in_Australia)

------
tobylane
The update, that isn't in the title: It may actually be the logo. The logo has
the leaf in exactly the same place, and the h is similar to the missing bite
of the apple. The h being there looks fairly ugly, it does seem intentional to
me.

~~~
cvrajeesh
Does that really looks like Apple logo... ofcourse not!!! I feel this is
ridiculous. In future we won't be able teach our children "A" for "Apple"
because of this trademarks and patents

~~~
tobylane
I don't think intentional really matters, I just said it because of the
feelings around Apple. That logo should be illegal, but it shouldn't be used
because it's too obvious.

------
mrich
It seems the easiest way to get publicity and free advertising these days is
to create a brand somehow involving an apple and wait for the lawyers.

~~~
olive_
Totally agree. But the other ones were not as ridiculous as this one.

------
chalst

        The Polish website Telepolis is reporting that Apple demanded that the
        Urząd Patentowy Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej (Poland’s Patent Office) 
        cancel the trademark belonging to A.PL Internet SA. The first meeting 
        actually took place on August 29, but it was adjourned and deferred to 
        a later date.
    

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Does the Polish patent office really
deal with the award of trademarks?

 __ _Postscript_ __\- Indeed it does:[http://www.uprp.pl/znaki-towarowe-
informacje-podstawowe/Lead...](http://www.uprp.pl/znaki-towarowe-informacje-
podstawowe/Lead05,30,1707,4,index,pl,text/) (there's a translation tool
embedded in the page).

------
oneandoneis2
At this rate, how long before Apple start suing orchard owners for daring to
grow a fruit that looks exactly like their logo? :)

------
bobsy
What I find amusing is that Apple has almost certainly just raised the profile
of a.pl and given them a boost.

In the UK online food delivery is very competitive and businesses like this
come and go fairly frequently. As soon as supermarkets get involved in home
delivery these companies all start struggling.

I think it is fairly obvious a.pl has nothing to do with Apple or their brand.
If Apple had waiting there was a less than insignificant chance the company
would run out steam anyway..

------
mootothemax
Apparently this may be about one of a.pl's brands, fresh24.pl, whose logo
looks like this:

<http://fresh24.pl/Images/logo.png>

Personally, I think this is a storm in a teacup; Apple have to enforce their
trademark, and be shown to be doing so in order to maintain their trademark
rights.

~~~
icebraining
They don't need to sue to defend their trademark.

~~~
hetman
Could you elaborate on the alternatives?

------
ricardobeat
Nice work editorializing the title. They are suing a company called "A.PL
internet" that has an apple in its logo. Definitely not over the letter A.

~~~
vixen99
its logo!

------
mikemoka
That's the problem with a company heavily based on the charisma, creativity
and the aura of a single person, no matter how great he or her was. When that
person passes away the company loses confidence, and poor decisions ensue.

~~~
fwr
Yes, I'm 100% confident that _every single decision_ from their legal
department went through Jobs. Enough with this crap.

~~~
mikemoka
Of course not, but the aggressive legal strategy that we are witnessing
nowadays is something that has clearly been decided at the top in my opinion.

~~~
panacea
Apple logo suit from 2009: [http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/apple-
woolworths-in-austr...](http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/apple-woolworths-
in-australian-trademark-dispute-media-in-hys/)

Your opinion is demonstrably _wrong_.

Bonus link, what you're experiencing is an example of cognitive bias because
of priming. With the Samsung case fresh in your memory, you see Apple as
launching a whole new wave of litigation, when their lawyers have been being
lawyers all along: <http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Priming>

"A simple example is the familiar "red car" phenomenon where a person who buys
a red car suddenly starts seeing red cars everywhere. The familiarity of the
red car primes them to spot other red cars faster."

~~~
mikemoka
This demonstrates that you are educated and have a special love for teaching,
an adorable trait that, honestly, I very much appreciate. I would like for you
to consider though that priming might not apply here unless Apple legal team
has been doing this stuff more than once before Steve Jobs passed away, and I
just didn't notice or remember a single article about it.

Not to mention that the case you pointed me to (and more on
<http://www.engadget.com/search/?q=apple+trademark>) look way more legitimate,
because there is some kind of a visual resemblance with the Apple logo, the
grocery store on the other hand is totally different visually and I think it
is extremely unlikely that a consumer may be confused by it.

~~~
panacea
I'm not sure I'm as altruistic in wanting to teach as opposed to the xkcd
'someone is wrong on the internet' thing, but I should point out the
Woolworths trademark dispute that I linked to _is_ a grocery store (but
perhaps I'm not parsing the meaning of your comment?).

The thing about trademark disputes by Apple with grocery stores, and Microsoft
recently with the European company with the 'Metro' trademark dispute is
because the 'post-pc' era isn't fundamentally 'technology gadgets', it's new
storefronts and marketplaces.

Amazon and their Kindles are about strengthening their digital
storefront/marketplace.

Apple's iPad is arguably the most successful new model storefront/marketplace.
It's like the high-end mall of virtual marketplaces.

This is a very real contested battleground. It's not about the apps, it's
about the retail storefronts, both physical and virtual.

------
curtin
2009:
[http://www.cio.com/article/504167/Sour_Apples_Apple_and_Wool...](http://www.cio.com/article/504167/Sour_Apples_Apple_and_Woolworths_Battle_Over_Logo)

2011: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8858333/Apple-
ta...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8858333/Apple-takes-on-
German-cafe-over-logo.html)

In general:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Trademark...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Trademarks.2C_Copyrights.2C_and_Patents)

Anyone noticing a pattern here?

------
gbin
I thought trademark issues were only relevant in the same sector. I mean apple
cannot forbid you to put the word "apple" or an apple logo if you are selling
the fruit no ?

~~~
ricardobeat
They're registered as _A.pl internet_. That's like saying instacart or amazon
is a grocery store.

------
aliks
Logo is veryyyy simlary to Apple is all about Apple logo

<http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/4c/1a/be/z12458572X.jpg>

~~~
ajuc
It's about this logo, I think: [http://cdn.thenextweb.com/wp-
content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/...](http://cdn.thenextweb.com/wp-
content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/09/fresh24_logo-520x440.jpg)

Still not similiar enough, IMHO.

~~~
aliks
[http://www.spidersweb.pl/2012/09/apple-trolluje-polsce-
moze-...](http://www.spidersweb.pl/2012/09/apple-trolluje-polsce-moze-juz-
paranoja.html)

Sorry only Polish

~~~
ajuc
I'm Polish :)

------
forgottenpaswrd
It is not about letter "a", but letters "A'pl", witch is different.

I could be as angry as the next guy from Apple patenting geometric shapes and
natural gestures and tech that was already invented 20 years ago, but this is
a typical case of trademark dispute, and Apple could be right here. A pl could
sound like Apple and so Apple needs to protect their trademark, or they could
loose it, as someone already stated.

------
danielweber
I think Apple is very thuggish, but can we lose the link-baity and dramatic
titles ("Apple sues Polish grocery store over the letter A")?

I'm skeptical that even "A.pl" around a giant "a" with leaves coming out of it
is enough to infringe on Apple's trade mark, but it's a much closer call than
merely the letter a.

~~~
basseq
Agreed. And it's not a "grocery store" it's an "online service" (dealing with
the food industry). Granted, not Apple's core business, but a heck of a lot
closer to their realm than a brick-and-mortar retail outfit.

Apple suffers here because their trademark is an English word. (Though A.pl
probably isn't intended to be a homonym for "apple" in Polish.)

------
k-mcgrady
It's a trademark dispute. Apple doesn't have a choice, they have to defend
their trademark or they will lose it. And they aren't disputing use of the
letter 'A'. The article's been updated to show the Polish companies logo is an
Apple, similar to Apple's own logo.

~~~
icebraining
As said above, they don't need to sue to defend it.

------
devgutt
This reminds me a Steve Blank's funny story about the letter "e" and
Microsoft: [http://steveblank.com/2012/08/20/when-microsoft-sued-us-
over...](http://steveblank.com/2012/08/20/when-microsoft-sued-us-over-the-
letter-e/)

------
sasoon
I guess <http://ap.pl/> will be the next target

~~~
dzhiurgis
Something says me it was all misunderstanding and this site was targeted in
first place. After all NASDAQ:APPL...

------
mhd
Erm, anybody remember Apple Corps vs Apple Computers[1]?

So, how's them… ah, forget it.

[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer>

------
miszak
Apple, please go on: <http://www.nadgryzione.pl/> <http://www.ap.pl> ...

------
dmbaggett
These guys are next: <http://www.aappll.com/>

------
S4M
Funny they haven't sued Apple Records (company that produced the Beatles) yet.

~~~
danielweber
That case goes back decades. They settled long ago. ITunes caused trouble when
Apple Computer got into the music business.

------
benmmurphy
if apple can sue a.pl could whoever owns APL sue apple? I guess it is probably
too late for APL though....

------
gavanwoolery
"Yay Lawyers!" said no one.

------
bestes
Why isn't this headline "US government forces Apple to sue Polish grocery
store"?

~~~
icebraining
Why would it be?

------
hastur
Can't wait for this to bubble up to Polish mainstream media. (And it will,
it's the perfect link bait / eyeball magnet.)

Hasn't Apple heard what Poland did to ACTA? We love it when some big American
entity comes pushing around and stepping on the little guy. We've got our
pitchforks and torches always ready. Come, Apple, come.

------
bluedanieru
It's a supermarket; they're an electronics company. There is no possibility of
confusion. They wouldn't have a case even against a supermarket chain just
opened in the States named 'Apple'. (That's not to say they wouldn't win,
because money makes people nod their heads.)

Apple is awful.

~~~
mc32
That's true but Microsoft caved in to Metro AG's (German Retailer) demands
that they (MS) not use the 'Metro' name in their Windows product.

------
89a
Not this shit again. Don't we all know why this happens by now?

