
Smog in Western U.S. Starts Out as Pollution in Asia, Researchers Say - reirob
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/03/518323094/rise-in-smog-in-western-u-s-is-blamed-on-asias-air-pollution?sc=tw
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ArtDev
Every lawmaker that wants to gut the EPA should have to visit Shanghai and New
Delhi. Once the air or water is trashed, its much harder to bring it back.

~~~
wwweston
If this were going to help -- if the people who want to gut the EPA were
inclined to care enough about the country's air and water quality -- they
wouldn't have to go to China. They could just read about the past in the US.

~~~
arrty88
You have to experience it to care.

~~~
AckSyn
In my experience, if someone had a good head on their shoulders they merely
have to use the lessons of the past as guidelines for what you do (or not do)
in the future.

I haven't seen a politician like that in a while, but they have existed.

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haimau
"China and India, where many consumer products are manufactured, are the worst
offenders."

So instead of merely blaming and regulating, it is ultimately upon all of us
to change consumption behavior.

~~~
ebbv
It's extremely hard for the US to regulate those places. It's true we can do
things like raise tariffs on goods coming from those areas or something but
that's unlikely to have the intended effect.

On the other side China and India are both pursuing renewable energy faster
than the US.

~~~
kogepathic
> On the other side China and India are both pursuing renewable energy faster
> than the US.

I was in Beijing last year for a layover. The pollution was so bad you
couldn't see the runway from the terminal. It was so terrible you could even
see it inside the terminal.

I think the pollution absolutely terrible, and it needs to be addressed.

But you know what? I'm even happier that the pollution is so blatantly
terrible and visible. Why? Because if it wasn't so obvious, the populations of
China and India wouldn't be demanding change, and the governments would be
free to ignore the issue.

The fact that the pollution in China and India is so bad is driving these
countries to improve regulations and curtail their pollution much faster than
the US had to in the 20th century.

Pollution is terrible, but I'm really glad that the two most populated
countries on earth are waking up and installing renewables at an unprecedented
rate. It's not only improving their pollution situation, but economies of
scale are making renewables cheaper for everyone.

~~~
bigbugbag
Except these two countries are quite an upscale from the late 19th to 20th
century occidental air pollution issue, an upscale of one or two order of
magnitude.

Even if they both stopped every source of pollution instantly right now, the
consequences would still last decades. Even if they do something, improving
the pollution situation is not enough by a large margin, keep in mind the
occident failed to fix their own air pollution issue to this day.

Economies of scale may well worsen the situation further due to Jevons
paradox, while most renewables are actually not renewables at all.

The only way out is a radical global change including a large decrease in
energy consumption and this will come when the massive overpopulation issue
will fix itself through famine due to lack of oil to grow food "green
revolution" style.

There's not doubt that reality will catch up on us, it is just a matter of
time as this is now inevitable. Our choice is between crashing full speed
ahead in a wall of brick or trying to slow down to crash in a hopefully
somewhat less dramatic manner.

~~~
chillacy
> an upscale of one or two order of magnitude

I think you're underestimating how much polluting the west has been doing.
After all, China got into the game only in the last maybe 20 years.

As of 2011, the United States had released 28% of the world's total post-
industrial revolution green house gasses, while China contributed 9%:
[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/apr/21/countrie...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/apr/21/countries-
responsible-climate-change)

Now granted 2011 was 7 years ago, but just eyeballing, if the US had stopped
all its emissions and China released its current rate of 9.6B tonnes each
year, they'd have to emit for another 24 years before they caught up to the
United State's emissions.

That's not to say that China shouldn't clean up its emissions before they
become the new #1 emitter, but we who live in the west have to do our part as
well.

This should also be concerning: The US has over twice the emissions per capita
as China [1], and China is not yet done developing. Basically if all nations
are aiming to develop into the united states, we're hosed.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions)

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sandGorgon
[https://www.google.co.in/amp/indianexpress.com/article/india...](https://www.google.co.in/amp/indianexpress.com/article/india/india-
news-india/solar-power-plant-kamuthi-tamil-nadu-world-largest-4403895/lite/)

A solar power plant in Kamuthi, Tamil Nadu just became the world’s largest
plant. the plant was built at a cost of $679 m and was completed in just eight
months.

So yeah... we're getting there.

~~~
bigbugbag
There's something odd with this article: "(...) a capacity to produce 648 MW
of electricity (...) built at a cost of $679 m(...) The solar power plant has
the capacity to generate electricity sufficient for about 150,000 homes"

Then we have Ivanpah solar power plant: cost $2.2 Billions, theoretical
capacity 392 MW but only output 40% its first year of operation and about 66%
at best since. This while burning 525 million cubic feet of natural gas a year
(almost twice the amount initially allowed).

Then we have the former biggest solar plant in Spain: combined solnovas, PS10,
PS20 and AZ20 for a grand total of 300MW of electricity enough to power
180,000 homes.

So a plant in Tamil Nadu built for around 1/4 of the cost with almost twice
the output of Ivanpah but only enough power for 30,000 less homes than the
Spain plant which has an output lower than Ivanpah's.

These numbers do not add up, with a PR smell floating around and
politics/business/marketing as usual.

~~~
phonon
Ivanpuh is much older, the price for new equipment has gone way down +
construction costs are much less in India.

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curun1r
> The study's authors said their work was funded by NASA grants...

Expect those grants to go away under the current administration. It's one
thing to argue about the best policy in light of scientifically-observed data.
But when you start denying facts and limiting the opportunity for scientists
to gather data in the first place, all that's left is uninformed opinion.
Anyone's uninformed opinion is problematic, but Trump et al have uninformed
opinions that are truly dangerous.

