

BlackBerry, Under New Leadership, Unveils Its Newest Smartphone - pesenti
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/technology/under-new-leadership-blackberry-unveils-its-newest-smartphone.html

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fidotron
In contrast to many of the others, I think the industrial design of this thing
is beautiful. Of greater potential interest around here is they relatively
quietly added the Amazon App Store to it.

Still, it amazes me that they don't do something fairly obvious like team up
with Bloomberg on becoming the mobile Bloomberg terminals, complete with the
chat and coloured keys.

~~~
Nicholas_C
>Still, it amazes me that they don't do something fairly obvious like team up
with Bloomberg on becoming the mobile Bloomberg terminals, complete with the
chat and coloured keys.

That is one hell of an idea.

~~~
apaprocki
We already have a professional Bloomberg app on Blackberry, iOS, Android
(phones and tablets). I'm not sure what is really to gain by doing something
so specific with one app vendor.

Customers can already get the full Terminal on an iPad (complete with colored
keys). The same could most likely be done for the Blackberry, if there was
significant demand. I'm not sure there will be.

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zghst
I know my opinion isn't in line with the positive feedback loop culture on HN,
but this phone looks like a joke!

I feel like hardware keyboards on mobile devices are archaic and overhyped. I
know it's Blackberry's key thing, but instead of trying the same old tired
keyboard, why not embrace the software keyboard with some innovations? They
could do some research in ultrasonic haptic feedback, shape shifting displays,
even something as far fetched as claytronics to replicate the the textures and
friction of everyday objects.

If you like or have to use Blackberry, I guess this is the phone for you, but
otherwise how can anybody want to choose a painfully mediocre device? I don't
feel sorry for their slow fade into obsolescence.

~~~
shyn3
Would you care to elaborate more on what about BB 10/BB OS 10 is mediocre?

Edit (after response below): I should add the only item I can think of is Apps
but they are working on wrapping Android items.

Edit 2: z30 - sunspider - tinyurl.com/pt6gjrw

~~~
zghst
It's extremely disjointed, there are too many ways to do things and they
aren't very intuitive, like previewing notifications, revealing the context
menu from swiping down, the quick settings swipe with two fingers,
accidentally swiping left back home/multitasker. Also:

 _Global Search._ How do you do a global search on Android? On Android it's
right on the home screen, with iOS it's there on the home screen but a little
hidden.

 _Privacy /Permissions._ How does one control the privacy settings on their
device and know/control which app is accessing what? Android has permissions
management per app, iOS has privacy management in its settings. They are both
easy and clear to access and modify.

 _Backups._ iCloud is essentially perfect, very futuristic, it backs up almost
everything wirelessly; Android is great because all your data (contacts,
calendar, photos, etc) is with Google and easily sync to your device, although
I am unsure if it as robust as iCloud which essentially keeps a carbon copy of
your phone.

 _Easy unlocking._ The newest iPhones have TouchID, just tap and unlocked.
Android has had patterns since forever and it has face unlock, also the newer
Samsung phones have finger print unlock as well. It can be very frustrating
typing a passcode each time you want to unlock your device.

 _Design and detail._ Google and Apple are giving me the chills in this arena.
iOS has always looked great and Material Design is hands down the best design
language I've seen this year, sometimes I get a little envious of the design
vs iOS. Google did an amazing job with that. Blackberry on the other hand has
a design that is old that doesn't look like it's had the amount of thought
that its competitors have. Apple, Google, and Microsoft not only understand
how to make something that looks good, but also something that is intuitive,
delightful to use, and focused.

 _Interoperability with existing services and devices._ What if you have a PC
or Mac or a tablet? How well will your Blackberry play with them? Apple
devices work best with other Apple devices, but seeing that Google and
Microsoft have extremely strong and versatile services, their products will
work well on iOS. Android devices use Google services, which work well across
platforms. MS devices use MS services which work well on Windows devices which
are everywhere.

 _Strong commitment to platform services._ Apple keeps building new services.
Google is always building new services. Microsoft is now building new
services. They all have a relentless command over their platform and show
commitment to making their services better and useful. Siri, Google Now,
Cortana, all compete with each other, all very strong services. Apple, Google,
and Microsoft are simply the only companies with the resources to do things
like these.

 _Always something around the corner._ These companies work hard to make sure
they keep us on our toes, this year I was impressed by Swift by and Android L
by Google, I'm looking forward to Windows 9 from Microsoft.

 _Changes the industry and world._ Apple, Google and Microsoft's changes are a
shockwave throughout our lives. Collectively, they have an enormous power over
billions of people and are changing lives every day. For instance, now that
they've chose our Health and wearable devices as the new battlefield, we will
probably see a massive changes of healthcare and fitness.

 _Wearables and Health._ Stated previously but I can't emphasize this enough.
We are all underestimating the power of wearables and the next few years will
yield amazing technologies and transformations.

 _Home automation._ For now the media has forgotten the release of HomeKit by
Apple and how there are no products that support it right now, but boy am I
excited to tell Siri to turn off my lights. I imagine Google will be doing
interesting things with Nest and Microsoft has been toying with Home
Automation for decades. This will be extremely interesting...

 _Free stuff, good customer service._ I love all the free software from Apple
(iWork, iLife) as well as the free repairs and replacements! I love Google
Voice/Hangouts, Google Authenticator (app and server), Chrome and countless
other really geeky Google services and advancements. Microsoft doesn't give me
anything free that makes me joyful, but they are becoming a much more
responsive company.

 _Tons of support._ Because these companies have big platforms its not hard to
discover if someone else has a problem (and solution) as well. Also they are
quick to take care of issues.

 _Not going anywhere._ I am sure that these companies will be around in the
year 2100. I can keep some of my products as old relics. They will be in
textbooks. I want to be on the right side of history.

These are many, but few out of the many reasons I think Blackberry devices
seem painfully mediocre.

Edit: formatting and grammar

~~~
shyn3
Previewing notifications: swipe up.

Reveal context menu: Touch the time.

Global Search: The home screen has a call, search, camera

Privacy\Permissions: Application Manager -- However all platforms really suck
at this and a 3rd party app is necessary.

Backups: For Applications, it doesn't do it yet but if you backup using Link
you can. For e-Mail (Calendar, Contacts), ActiveSync is supported.

Patterns: Might be a security requirement but I agree.

Design/Detail: Okay they fail hard here because settings is not alpha order,
and many other things. However, navigating icon screens with that mini bar is
pretty nice.

Interoperability with existing services and devices: It works really well with
Windows, BlackBerry link mounts a network drive over a shared wireless
network. BlackBerry Blend released on 24th does Windows/Mac and will probably
make it the only platform which lets you use your phone from your PC, if it is
as advertised.

Wearables and Health: Android is going to struggle here because of the
security of it's platform with Health. BlackBerry has investments in several
health companies. However, wearables they don't see to be going into.

Home Automation: If it runs on Android, it runs on BlackBerry, in many cases.

Free stuff/customer service: BBRY loses here but Google doesn't offer customer
service. Google offers forums by dedicated people however.

Tons of support: CrackBerry was a decent resource but with BB10 you have to be
on your own. After all the platform was completely rebuilt. A company with a
"Ship or Die" ultimatum basically. We are only at 10.2 and the amount of
changes each update brings is pretty fast. I expect many of the other items
you have mentioned to get added. For example, adding quick settings is new,
the flashlight, easy alarm management from quick setting, multiple alarms.
Items are changing after each update, features being removed, changed, added.
Swipe up does what swipe down used to do and so on and so forth.

Not going anywhere: Yeah you win there.

Platform of services: BlackBerry had BBM Chat which was pretty good. With the
BlackBerry 10, and video/voice chat it has a communications platform. The Hub
is pretty awesome to centralize communications, I don't think anyone does it
better, however, their notifications suck. BBM has screen share. Channels is
like "twitter/facebook" pages for companies. You have Voice Control for Siri,
BlackBerry Link for ITunes, Blend to run on Windows/Mac.

-

BlackBerry developer documentation is not as good but their entire developer
platform is easy to navigate/learn/install and easy to get started. It
currently has only one main version to develop for so easier to manage
development cycles. This is why Android fails with it's rapid development and
lack of application support across versions.

The Hub is centralized communication.

Runs Android applications. ActiveSync. Personal/Work Space, run your own BES
server and setup your company on the personal side and yourself on the private
side. Manage your kids mobile devices using your own "BES installation and for
free"

BlackBerry link mounts a network drive for your device over wireless
connection.

They have QNX which is in cars.

The only platform to have their own security management application. Microsoft
has ActiveSync but it isn't as robust as BES/AirWatch/Meraki.

-

Lack of apps, however, this is going to change slowly if adoption increases.
However, Android applications work.

The camera is not the best.

Settings are not in alpha order.

Blackberry Protect doesn't protect.

Android applications are 90/10 whether they work or not.

Settings are buried all over the place.

Default e-Mail client and reply.

Edit: Forgot BlackBerry Blend in list of positives.

------
hackuser
If a brand is out of fashion, of course everyone loves to join in the fun and
pile on, and any innovation, good or bad, is automatically thrown onto the
bonfire.

It's too bad because I think the screen is innovative, and I wish others would
follow suit. Some extra space on the side is more valuable to me than more at
the top. I tried a squarish LG phablet a couple years ago and loved it.
Unhappily the software was poor and I had to switch to something with a more
standard aspect ratio.

Also, I trust Blackberry shares my priorities about productivity and security;
anything to save me a few seconds each time I use it would be great. I hardly
ever use my phones for anything else, other than occasional maps and web
browsing. If it works well, I'm tempted, though its potential in the
marketplace is worrying. And no, I don't care if you think my phone is
unfashionable.

EDIT: Added a couple words to the first paragraph to clarify.

~~~
femto113
> Some extra space on the side is more valuable to me than more at the top

Serious question: doesn't the landscape mode of rectangular screens
sufficiently address this?

~~~
hackuser
> Serious question: doesn't the landscape mode of rectangular screens
> sufficiently address this?

Not for me, or at least not well. In landscape mode the screen is too short
vertically (especially with the keyboard displayed). There's no getting around
having sufficient space in 2 dimensions.

EDIT: Someone else posted that it displays 66 chars per line, which is enough
for my text files! I wonder how Vim works on that keyboard.

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happycube
Why only a 3 line keyboard? Having to use an on-screen keyboardlet for
punctuation and #'s seems to detract from the point.

If they were serious about spreadsheets, why not shrink the keyboard
horizontally and make the first phone (in a long time?) with a numeric keypad.

------
Kluny
Why the hell can't I just have my Blackberry Curve back? Please! The form
factor was perfect, the battery was great, the operating system was hella
snappier than my current Nexus, all it needed was to run Android apps and have
a better camera. Why are they trying to sell us bathroom tiles now?

~~~
LeoPanthera
> But some analysts say that BlackBerry must overcome several significant
> hurdles to re-establish its phone business with the Passport and a second
> model, the BlackBerry Classic, which has not yet been released.

You may get your wish.

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UVB-76
_> The Passport, when bought without a carrier subsidy or large corporate
buyer’s discount, will cost $600 in the United States, $50 less than the basic
iPhone 6._

Where is the market for a $600 handset that isn't an iPhone 6?

~~~
djloche
The market is: businesses and governments that cannot afford to use anything
less secure. For this niche, their phone could be $1000, they're still going
to buy BlackBerry because it is the only thing that checks all the boxes and
provides the security processes necessary.

This might not be a tens of a billions of dollar revenue per quarter business
like top consumer electronics manufacturers are, but it is a great niche to be
in since the security needs are always there for those types of customers.

~~~
Tloewald
Does Blackberry have a significant security lead any more? It did in 2012, but
does it now? And don't all of its compatibility hacks produce a gigantic
attack surface?

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aaronbrethorst
I think this is the craziest line in the entire story:

    
    
        The Passport was already in development
        years before Mr. Chen arrived.
    

Years? Chen has been their CEO for a year now. When did this project start?

~~~
nchlswu
no source, but I was told it was just an idea that was sitting around that
none of the former leaders wanted to launch.

------
johnny5
Please blackberry just get in to the one market where your sunk investment in
physical keyboards and good industrial design is still relevant - low cost
chromebook killers. Or even just similiarly priced, but able to run ubuntu
linux arm and bb10.

~~~
untog
Is anyone in business using Chromebooks? If not, it isn't going to be in
Blackberry's sights.

~~~
danielsamuels
Samsung[1] and Sony have literally just pulled out of the market due to
declining sales.

[1] [http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/laptop/3573470/samsung-
exits...](http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/laptop/3573470/samsung-exits-laptop-
market-including-chromebooks/)

------
kin
I never understood how Blackberry hardware designers can be so bad. I'm glad
they realized that the keyboard is where the Blackberry shines but, a square
design!? They should've stuck with something more similar to the Q10.

~~~
Spearchucker
The keyboard doubles as a track pad. I imagine the phone will shine when
reading content in landscape mode, and scrolling using the track pad.
Supposedly works well for lefties too. I understand that the BlackBerry
displays around 66 lines of text, compared with the iPhones 31-odd. I'd like
very much to play with one before I wrote the device off. Given that I use my
phone primarily for reading this could find a niche.

There's a pretty decent cursory review on The Register -
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/24/blackberry_passport_...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/24/blackberry_passport_first_look/)

~~~
Tloewald
No: 66 _characters_ per line vs 31 for the iphone [in portrait mode] [before
the new models came out]

Failing to compete with last year's devices is not the path to victory.

The register is the most positive writeup I've seen, and the headline is "it's
bonkers". E.g. They like the trackpad keyboard for handling a large display
without using both hands compared with Apple's "reachability", but you have to
use both hands. So where's the advantage.

~~~
shyn3
Comparing apples to oranges here. This is a portrait mode device for people
who like to read content. If you want to compare landscape you would compare
iPhone 6 to Z30, and well, the Z30 has a better reading surface.

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tormeh
Honestly, when you're as fucked as BlackBerry is now, experimentation can't be
all that bad; this might be crazy enough to work! That said, this is clearly
not for me.

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lazzlazzlazz
This thing looks incredible, aesthetically. If there were an Android option,
I'd seriously consider it.

~~~
shyn3
It does run .APK files... but portrait mode isn't going to work with 90% of
Android apps.

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bikamonki
There are going to be so many jokes about this waffle...

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morewillie
A screen with a square aspect ratio makes a lot of sense. Wait, what?

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pearknob
I've heard internal employees calling this phone 'Fugly'; Fat and Ugly.

~~~
racontour
Surely you know what 'fugly' means?

