
Sony's mini air conditioner can fit in your pocket - tomerbd
https://www.cnet.com/news/sonys-mini-air-conditioner-can-fit-in-your-pocket/
======
ValentineC
Physics concerns aside, this reminds me of [founding Prime Minister of
Singapore] Lee Kuan Yew's oft-mentioned quote on air-conditioned underwear
[1]:

> _The humble air conditioner has changed the lives of people in the tropical
> regions. Before air-con, mental concentration and with it the quality of
> work deteriorated as the day got hotter and more humid. After lunch,
> business in many tropical countries stopped until the cooler hours of the
> late afternoon._

> _Historically, advanced civilizations have flourished in the cooler
> climates. Now lifestyles have become comparable to those in temperate zones,
> and civilization in the tropical zones need no longer lag behind._

> _The ideal invention would be a light polyester air-conditioned
> undergarment, enclosed around the neck, wrists and ankles and battery
> operated. Everyone can then work at his optimum temperature and civilization
> can spread across all climates._

[1]
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB915764828134990000](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB915764828134990000)
(non-paywalled: [https://outline.com/d3TYvW](https://outline.com/d3TYvW))

~~~
jl6
Has this quote been debunked or confirmed? I personally feel drained and
unproductive and lazy when in hot humid climates, but perhaps that is because
I was raised in a temperate climate.

Anecdata, but I certainly know people who are from hot countries and work in
hot countries who don’t seem to have a problem being driven, smart,
productive, etc.

~~~
SenHeng
I grew up in Singapore. The heat drives me crazy, I lose all ability to think
straight and want nothing more than to run into a cold room or get a cold
shower.

Once I’m in an air conditioned office, I’m what you presumably call driven,
smart and productive.

I hate the heat so much I refuse to return to that country.

------
squarefoot
No way it can work. Peltier cells are relatively inefficient heat pumps, that
is, they move heat from say side A to side B, and lose some power into heat,
so they need a big heatsink and possibly associated fan on side B to get to
interesting low temperatures on side A. That little box shown in the photo
will never work unless they give it a way to expel the heat in excess in a way
that doesn't affect who is wearing them ("Hey, that thing lowered my
underpants temperature by 10 degrees C; too bad it also released 20 degrees C
hotter air in my shirt!" \- numbers pulled from you-know-where, just to
illustrate the point).

That inefficiency also creates one more problem: assuming they solve the
getting-rid-of-hot-air one, this thing will work as an heater for the room in
which it works, because some power is always lost into heat, which will turn
in less efficiency for the heat pump since it is now working in a hotter
environment. And there's power consumption too: peltier devices of decent size
draw amperes, not milliamperes, so a pocket sized device like that one,
assuming they can change the laws of physics and solve all other problems,
won't offer any benefit for more than maybe a couple hours at half power.

My conclusion is that toy is no more than a marketing gimmick that will never
work, but (thanks to Sony's name too) as with all non working gimmicks that
rely on 1% of correct-but-not-usable-here science and 99% of marketing, it
will be cloned and produced in quantities by far east companies to be sold for
cheap online, only to be immediately thrown away in some landfill.

~~~
jws
Not saying it works, but it is in the ballpark. An idle human dissipates
something like 100 watts. Heat and humidity interfere with your mammalian
superpowers and you start having trouble getting rid of your 100 watts. A
device which moves a faction of 100 watts can get you out of the horrible
parts of the mammal powers (sweating buckets).

To compare to CPU cooling, a human is a small CPU in terms of power
production. Peltier CPU coolers are not popular because they tend to be less
efficient than big air heat exchangers… but… A Peltier CPU cooler is an
"instead of" device. A Peltier cooler bolted on to your fanny is an "in
addition to" cooling device.

~~~
tantalor
> mammal powers (sweating buckets).

Um actually: only humans & horses use perspiration for cooling
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration))

~~~
tallanvor
That article is misleading. Cats and dogs have far fewer sweat glands, and
they're mostly concentrated at the bottom of their paws, so it's not their
primary method of thermal regulation, but they will sweat when they get hot to
aid in cooling down.

~~~
xyzzy_plugh
You will pant to cool down in extreme cases too.

But the article is correct. It's not remotely a primary dissipation method for
most mammals. Those animals don't need to sweat to stay alive.

------
tmikaeld
There's a few of these peltier coolers on the market already [1][2].

The theory is that since we are cooling using direct-skin-contact and
utilizing blood-flow to cool the body it is much more efficient than air
cooling.

[1] [https://embrlabs.com](https://embrlabs.com) [2]
[https://www.dhamainnovations.com](https://www.dhamainnovations.com) [3] (DYI)
[https://www.instructables.com/id/Wrist-Cooling-
System](https://www.instructables.com/id/Wrist-Cooling-System)

~~~
rasz
First two look like marketing scams too, too small to do anything. You need
good skin contact AND a way to prevent body from fighting the temp difference
by drawing blood away from cold spot, aka Vacuum.

[https://news.stanford.edu/2012/08/29/cooling-glove-
research-...](https://news.stanford.edu/2012/08/29/cooling-glove-
research-082912/)

[https://www.rtxcorecontrol.com.au/](https://www.rtxcorecontrol.com.au/)

earlier prototype from 2007 [https://www.wired.com/2007/05/corecontrol-
rtx/](https://www.wired.com/2007/05/corecontrol-rtx/) I remember seeing this
one on Discovery TV

~~~
tmikaeld
The cooling glove you linked seem to be aimed at cooling at a much more faster
speed than just casually cooling off though, they mention Athletes,
firefighters and soldiers.

Embrlabs spun out of an MIT project called Wristify and have a patented wave-
like cooling, which is supposed to prevent the body from going into cold-spot-
prevention mode.

There's a lot of reviews, including pictures, where the vast majority says
it's working as advertised [https://embrlabs.com/embr-wave/#yotpo-
reviews](https://embrlabs.com/embr-wave/#yotpo-reviews) but under-powered for
some users.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Regarding the Embr, while I'm not actually insinuating foul play per se, I
generally ignore reviews that appear on the manufacturer's own website, for
obvious reasons.

If anyone has first-hand experience with these devices, I'd love to hear it!
There doesn't seem to be a ton of critic coverage, and what there was didn't
really go over how well it works in detail.

I'd readily buy one if I trusted that it could actually be effective.

------
benbristow
Why is Sony crowdfunding? Surely they've got the money already being a massive
corporation....

~~~
DanHulton
Yeah, that part infuriated me. I guess Sony - you know that scrappy little
company trying to make it in this world - just can't put together the
resources to build this world-changing gadget without OUR HELP, you know?

~~~
daniel_reetz
The idea is to get market validation before launching new products.

~~~
benbristow
Couldn't that be achieved with a 'like' button?

I guess put your money where your mouth is...

~~~
Xylakant
Many people will like a product but not buy it later. This is more like
preordering it with no promise that it’s built. Contains a stronger
commitment.

------
saurik
The article did not answer for me "but where does the heat go?" :(. (It has a
link to a more complete set of marketing materials which may or may not answer
that question, but it is all in Japanese.)

~~~
mhb
This[1] says it uses Peltier devices. They are not very efficient and, of
course, also need to get rid of the heat somehow. I'm skeptical about the
utility of this.

[1] [https://www.slashgear.com/sony-reon-pocket-is-a-
crowdfunded-...](https://www.slashgear.com/sony-reon-pocket-is-a-crowdfunded-
wearable-air-conditioner-and-heater-25585239/)

~~~
anotheryou
Peltier + fan, you can see it here: [https://first-
flight.sony.com/images/projects/reonpocket/ima...](https://first-
flight.sony.com/images/projects/reonpocket/image03.jpg)

Looks like it blows the heat away? So it's really just a spot-cooler, which
would be uncool because a cold spot will fool the body in to thinking of an
inflamation I think (so you'll get a stiff neck).

~~~
jaclaz
>Looks like it blows the heat away?

... and possibly just in the face of the guy/gal behind you (I am thinking of
a typically crowded Tokyo metro/station).

------
fortran77
> The shirts come in a men's small, medium or large.

> The target demographic is business people who have to wear suits in the
> sweltering heat.

If these were to sell in the U.S., where far fewer men wear suits, the target
demographic would need larger sizes; many overweight people suffer badly in
the heat.

------
jdnenej
Recently I saw that you can buy a vest that holds an ice pack and uses a pump
to circulate ice water around you. I was wondering if this would end up
cheaper than air conditioning since you don't have to cool the whole room

~~~
GordonS
That sounds like it would be bulky, and I'd be worried about leaks. I also
wonder how long such a (presumably) small quantity of water would stay cool
for - do you have any more info or links about this?

------
z92
Note that air conditioners are basically heat pumps. To cool one side it MUST
throw the heat on another side. It "moves" the heat. Which is why a pocket air
conditioner that blasts off cool air on one side is impossible. It has to have
another long duct attached with it to throw the hot air considerably far, so
that both hot and cold air doesn't cancel each other out.

How this device handles this task is unclear.

------
billfruit
Does Sony have any experience in designing and selling air conditioners? I've
never heard of a Sony air-conditioner product before.

~~~
SwellJoe
Since it's a peltier device rather than a compressor/blower design, it is more
aligned with Sony's historic electronics experience, I think. Then again, Sony
has made tons of electromechanical devices over the years, I don't think
they'd be unprepared to build a traditional air conditioner, either.

------
LogicX
TECs are a pretty awesome tech - I plan to build a cooling pad for my dog in
my camper van which water cools the hot side to a radiator mounted under the
floor, outside. Modeled on this YouTube video where he makes a freezer:
[https://youtu.be/RkSR4rTl2GY](https://youtu.be/RkSR4rTl2GY)

------
truculent
Thanks, I hate it.

Maybe there are better (& more sustainable ways) to adapt to heat? Say,
wearing different clothes?

~~~
PorterDuff
Not everyone spends 24/7 in a conditioned environment. There's a world beyond
the keyboard.

------
Havoc
>Sony is crowdfunding the gadget.

Maybe one day Sony will grow big & strong and be able to foot the cost of
developing a device.

...oh wait.

This whole thing smells like BS

------
tessellated
>The target demographic is business people who have to wear suits in the
sweltering heat.

How to get rich using idiots 101. Brought to you by Sony Kickstarter.

------
spodek
> _The target demographic is business people who have to wear suits in the
> sweltering heat._

How about we change customs that are historical relics and now just feed
global warming with unnecessary air conditioning?

Can't one leader in the banking industry. government, or other influential
position point out the futility of sustaining that tradition and start a trend
to change?

I'm sure they can find other ways to show their status that don't require
wearing multiple layers of wool even in nearly tropical places like Hong Kong
that need expensive, chemically intensive cleaning.

~~~
Maxious
The Japanese Government actually has a "Cool Biz" campaign to reduce office
air conditioning energy usage by relaxing traditional dress code
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Biz_campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Biz_campaign)

~~~
zygimantasdev
Ugh, in my experience, 28C is way too much to think/code in a productive
manner

~~~
GordonS
Woah, 28C is _way_ too hot, even if I'm naked!

For me, 21-22C is comfortable, but anything more than that will have me
sweating and affect my productivity.

But even if I'm an outlier (I don't think I am?), 28C is surely too hot for
most?

------
aaron695
So it obviously won't work, cooling takes a lot of energy, der. (Heated
jackets exist, but why not just pay for more down, than a complicated battery)

But it doesn't even have an open exhaust so a child should see the issue.

Is it even worthy of a takedown on YouTube?

[https://qz.com/quartzy/1674873/sonys-new-reon-pocket-is-
an-i...](https://qz.com/quartzy/1674873/sonys-new-reon-pocket-is-an-in-shirt-
air-conditioner/amp/)

------
edent
> The shirts come in a men's small, medium or large.

Because women never get hot, right?

~~~
schrodinger
Women don’t have the traditional social pressure to wear suits.

~~~
gshdg
In professions where a suit is de rigeur (law, banking, consulting, etc.) they
sure as hell do.

~~~
xeromal
Not really, you kind of have it backwards. Most wear skirts and heels.

~~~
gshdg
Um, pants suits for women are a thing. And skirt suits are SUITs. With jackets
and shirts and everything.

------
GrumpyNl
"This device can keep you cool or warm using a smartphone app" Why? A scroll
button from high to low will do all you need.

~~~
junipertea
it's on your back

