

What Ben Franklin Really Said - Tomte
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/07/what-ben-franklin-really-said/

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justinpaulson
1.) The article didn't link the original letter. If you want to give the
context, then link the entire text from the letter. Wittes may be completely
accurate, but there is no way to verify his credibility.

2.) Wittes still didn't prove that his remarks are not a general argument to
the specific issue he is writing about. The quotation is so generic that is
seems to be a basic principle that he believes in, and he is using that
principle as his argument against this specific instance of liberties being
curtailed. If Wittes posted the actual text that surrounds the quote, it would
become clear that he believes in this general principle in every context, not
just in this specific argument.

"There is not in any volume, the sacred writings excepted, a passage to be
found better worth the veneration of freemen, than this, "those who would give
up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither
liberty nor safety;" nor could a lesson of more utility have been laid at the
crisis before the Pennsylvanians."

[http://books.google.com/books?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA100&dq=%2...](http://books.google.com/books?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA100&dq=%22deserve+neither%22+franklin+-essential&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0Gn6UojUGuPr2wWlnYHoAw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22deserve%20neither%22%20franklin%20-essential&f=false)

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hownottowrite
Probably worth reading the author's follow up article. It's a Brookings
Institute piece focused on creating a disconnect between Liberty and Secuity,
or rather decoupling the concepts as non-related. Interesting logic.

"We seldom stop and ask the question of whether and when our surveillance
programs are really coming at the expense of liberty at all; or whether the
relationship might be more complicated than that—indeed, whether some of these
programs might even enhance liberty."

[http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2011/...](http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2011/9/21%20platform%20security%20wittes/0921_platform_security_wittes.pdf)

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simonh
It's an interesting historical wrinkle to the quotation, but I don't think it
alters anything fundamental about it's meaning.

All we can say is that Franklin considered a people's right to self government
an essential liberty. Given his role in the independence struggle that
shouldn't surprise anyone. What other things he, or we might consider
essential is moot. But it's clear that he used the term 'essential'
deliberately. He clearly isn't saying that we should never surrender any
liberties in return for security.

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matt_s
When I read the article it struck me that it is nearly the opposite of how
people use the quote today. It appears the quote's context was about the
liberty of government (Ben Franklin as a legislator in 1750's Pennsylvania
colony) to tax the elite Penn family to pay for arming British troops, the
government's army at the time. It had nothing to do with individual liberty or
individual security.

It was about his liberty as a legislator to tax the property owners inside the
colony to fund the government's army to defend itself during the French &
Indian war. The colony governor was appointed by the Penn family and the Penn
family didn't want to pay taxes.

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simonh
I don't read it like that at all. It was about the liberty of a people to
govern themselves. I don't think Franklin saw the people and their
representative government as being separable the way your interpretation
separates them.

I certainly don't think he was talking about the liberty of the people from
government, nor was he talking about the liberty of the government to govern
the people. He was talking about the liberty of the people to govern
themselves.

