
What it is like to be a Muslim woman, and why we know what freedom is - tokenadult
http://aveilandadarkplace.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/what-it-is-like-to-be-a-muslim-woman-and-why-we-know-what-freedom-is/
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beloch
I know a woman from Iran who has gone through something similar. She came to
Canada to study as a grad student. Brilliant woman! At first we were the
enemy. She wore the hijab, maintained links with home and didn't socialize.I
think having adult male students treat her like Canadians generally treat
teachers really threw her for a loop! Gradually she started making friends and
connecting with colleagues. Eventually the hijab was tossed in the bin and she
seemed essentially Western. She also completely cut off contact with her
family and is still apt to spout off angrily if Iran is even mentioned. Her
family's worst fears were made manifest. She was seduced and corrupted by
Western devils. She is probably an embarrassment to them, but a distant one.

This is the scary thing. For many women, the price of freedom in the West is
losing their home and family forever. I've seen other equally brilliant women
in similar circumstances maintain their walls throughout their studies and
disappear back home never to be heard from again. For them, the price of
freedom is too high. I can't imagine what it must be like to face such a
choice.

\-----------------

Edit: While some would say this is a social issue that doesn't belong on HN,
these women are potentially your coworkers or employees. I would argue that
they have special needs which may be important to understand. Specifically, if
your workplace is full of people who don't socialize with each other outside
work hours, the odds of these women going back home, possibly without much
warning, probably increase significantly.

~~~
msoad
Iran is in a specific situation right now. Unlike Saudi Arabia or Lennon,
Islam practices are mandatory in public. Things like wearing hijab. As you
might or might not expect, this have reverse effect in practice. It also
lowered islam's repetitation in our culture. I would say more than half of
Iranian yought do not believe in Islam. As a result you will see less violence
against women from Iranian people. it's hard to find young Iranian in the USA
or Canada that still practices Islam. It peobably means that person is from a
family with strong religious belifes. It's hard to deal with both your family
and enjoying your freedom. I appreciate your understanding on this.

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HarryHirsch
It can't be said often enough: Islam does not have an exclusive license for
religious nutjobbery.

What it _shares_ with other groups _known_ for nutjobbery, such as
Fundamentalist Baptist churches or ultraorthodox Judaism is the fact that
Islam does not have an established hierarchy with established public figures:
anyone can hang out their shingle, call himself Imam and open up a mosque in
part of a rented warehouse, just as anyone can call himself Pastor and set up
their church with their band of dedicated followers.

The public eye is a strong force for good.

------
superuser2
One of my best friends in high school grew up in a conservative Christian
household, and her life was a strikingly similar (if less extreme) version of
what's stated here.

She's 17 and doesn't have a key to her house. Her parents read and question
her about her texts, Facebook account, and internet history. In middle school,
she read popular fiction (Harry Potter, Inkspell, etc.) in class because only
Christian-themed books were allowed at home. Her parents usually refused the
permission slips on PG and PG-13 movies. She's not permitted to ride in a car
unless the driver is a relative or adult friend of the family (which
_seriously_ impedes social life in a quiet suburb). Shortly after her 17th
birthday she was granted permission to date, then bowed to her parents'
pressure to break up with one of our mutual friends _because she liked him_
but it wasn't going to result in marriage. Before that magical threshold, she
wasn't allowed to be alone with me (or any other male friend), even in a
public place. Her parents expect straight As. The only exception was the test
on evolution in freshmen biology. That one, she was required to fail.

She is occasionally upset by her parents inteference, but is on the whole a
firm believer in piety, strict parenting and plentiful spanking. She
instinctively rejects any suggestion that a parent's judgement could ever be
wrong (like when friends complain about their parents), or that _any_ of what
was taken from her could be considered a right. The Saudi Arabian Committee
for the Promotion of Virtue and the Suppression of Vice (morality police) came
up in the news one day, and that struck her (to my horror) not as Orwellian,
but as a brilliant idea and something we need here.

And now, having been trusted with exactly 0 important decisions in her life,
she's moving away to college this fall (secular, fortunately). I hope she has
a moment like Marwa's. I hope she realizes the signficance of the fact that
she has keys to her room, the password to her computer, and the PIN to her
phone. I hope she realizes that she can Google and text and email without fear
of retribution, that no one will tell her that her 15 minutes of internet time
are up or demand to know why she checked out that book or called that boy. But
if I had to put money on it, I'd say she'll raise her children the same way.

Aggressively protecting the sexual and religious purity of daughters isn't
unique to the Muslim world. Some would call it responsible parenting. But I
think it's important, before we write this off as a "those people" problem,
that not-otherwise-outwardly-crazy Christians do it too.

------
morsch
Is it naive to say that any change in terms of discrimination will have to
come from within? What _are_ effective ways we can improve the situation,
globally? The imperial solution is right out, it causes a lot of harm and
probably flat out does not work. Think global act local, and work on getting
rid of discrimination of women and others in our own societies? Lean on
governments to legislate societal change or at least stop legislating the
status quo? Cut economic ties to punish discrimination, or increase them in
the hope that this will, somehow, lead to a globalization of our attitude?

I'm sure many people here will stress the positive effect easy communication
can have on the issue; global communication gives people a glimpse into other,
less discriminatory regimes, local communication brings together people who
might feel isolated otherwise and lets them organise. I suppose the cell phone
has done a lot to improve the situation, in its way; even if she had to hide
her (male) contacts under female pseudonyms, it offered her a way of
communicating in a clandestine manner, that feature not being limited to
talking to guys, obviously.

~~~
derleth
> What are effective ways we can improve the situation, globally?

In many ways, we've already done it, and are doing it, and it just takes a
long time to take effect. It takes generations, and, as you said, trying to do
it more quickly (that is, the imperial solution) is likely to not only fail,
but backfire and result in a real solution taking longer and being uglier in
the end.

------
tptacek
This is a great, moving piece, broadly reflective of a lot of issues I feel
strongly about, and I was thrilled to read it.

But I also don't think political stories like this belong on HN, even when
those politics overlap mine almost entirely. I can't imagine how HN will find
a way to disagree with itself on this article, and dread any discussion we
might have about it.

I flagged this and hope others will too.

~~~
altero
It is all politics: snowden, positive discrimination, global warming, women in
it, starving children in africa.

Yet somehow womens rights in muslim countries are not even tolerated for
discusion.

~~~
moubarak
Lebanon is not a Muslim country. There is a difference between a discussion on
women's rights in Muslim countries and an "Ex-Muslim's" rant on a certain
religion.

~~~
altero
54% Lebanese are muslims. Do word count on "muslim", only a few times. Most of
her "rant" is about not being able to walk on streets and abuse from her
family. I really do not get how this is religion related.

I sugest we should not write about rape cases in India either, it would be
just a rant.

~~~
moubarak
This is a question of whether the post is relative to HN, not whether it is
related to Islam or not. Rape and Anti Islam are all good, just not this
specific rant. You are doing exactly what the OP does, hasty generalizations.

i must say, it is very easy for such a post to fall under controversial
categories. i believe well informed individuals on HN will flag this as an
attempt to go viral by being controversial.

~~~
altero
there is lot of unrelated junk on HN. Nobody cares to flag socialism vs
kapitalism discussion. So why flaging this post?

