
Build a house for less than $5000 - mambodog
http://ciracar.com/build-a-house-for-less-than-5000
======
elmarschraml
I love the look of that house, seems extremely cosy and well-designed.

But it's pretty hypocritical to present it as cheap and frugal.

The cost of a house is land + labor + material. Land costs depend on where you
want to live, but can be the biggest factor. He mentions 1500 hours of labor,
which, if you were paying somebody to do it, would be somewhere around 100000
USD (full cost of a skilled craftsman is around $60/hour). And even the 5000
dollars for materials is a fool's calculation, since he mentions using scrap
materials, i.e. stuff that somebody else had to pay to produce.

If you want something truly sustainable, i.e. not something pseudo-green and
feelgood-ecologigal, but something that anybody can afford, you'd
unfortunately would have to go with a mass-produced high-rise block of flats.

Not a fan of the do-gooder hypocrisy here, but as an example of an
architectural style that blends into nature it's adorable and looks fantastic.

~~~
wisty
A used shipping container is about $2,000. You'd want to check it for
chemicals. It's closer to $10,000 if you want them fitted out as something you
can live in, though. I'm not sure about the charm factor.

~~~
brudgers
Shipping containers are always proposed as the ideal solution for someone
else. Nobody would actually choose to live in such a shithole if they had
other options.

~~~
lbotos
One can make some surprisingly beautiful houses out of shipping containers. I
can't find the link at the moment but one such company advertises in dwell
magazine. Hopefully I can find it.

~~~
brudgers
For houses featured in _Dwell_ , shipping containers are merely a fetish
incorporated into million dollar+ dwellings.

Shipping containers are uninsulated and have stressed skin construction - they
require a lot of work to be used as a thermal envelop, or when incorporating
fenestration (not to mention blowing out a whole side.

With the economic downturn, the glut of shipping containers is long gone and
prices for used containers have risen significantly over the past several
years.

A lot of those buildings which are featured in glossy architectural rags are
actually built with custom modules, not actual containers because the
dimensions of a standard shipping container are suitable for...well, shipping,
not human habitation - 7'-10" inside height before interior ceiling and wall
finishes are added (and that's if your insulation is exterior).

------
upthedale
I remember reading about this a long time ago. The builder's own website on
the subject is a much better link, which presents the hows and whys:
<http://www.simondale.net/house/>

The OP is nothing more than a copy-paste job, though given how old it is,
there might be some interesting discussion in the comments.

I believe from what I've read in the past that this was more of an exhibition
piece than a long term place to live.

------
roel_v
What bugs me about projects like this, is that they're being presented as
'sustainable' while they're the antithesis of that. If everybody would want to
live like that, there wouldn't be enough room, let alone large, undisturbed
areas for forests or agriculture; plus this house may have cost the builder
only 5000 pounds (if you don't count the land), but that's only possible when
it's a one-of-a-kind project. If you'd have to take into account the supply
network needed to build a house like this, and live in it, to a reasonably
comfortable standard (meaning, at the very least: warm, dry, no vermin inside,
access to sewer and running water), it would become a lot more expensive, if
not downright impossible.

~~~
anthonyb
I get the room part, but it cost him 5000 pounds because he built it out of
logs and straw bales. There's not really a massive supply network needed for
that sort of thing.

Also, your idea of a decent house is (obviously) not necessarily his idea of a
decent house (eg. he has a composting toilet), but it looks pretty warm and
dry and vermin free to me.

~~~
shortlived
roel_v is saying that a house like this does not scale in terms of production,
materials and land required when _everyone_ would be building one.

~~~
dodedo
anthonyb is saying that logs and stray bales are available in large
quantities. And he's right, there's no issue of scale here, other than labor.
I have family who have built straw houses and they're cheap, straw is _very_
plentiful, and you really can't tell the difference from a traditional
drywall/fiberglass insulation home (it wasn't stylized like this one).

The only thing I see being an issue with the house from the article is the
composting toilet. However, running a sewer to this style of house is no
different than running a sewer to a traditional house.

~~~
latch
It's more than just the building material. I live in a 65 story building..8
units per floor (I'm sure it thins out near the top though). How many people
per sqft of _land_ do you think we take? How much would be taken by free-
standing (single) homes?

How much do you think we save in heating and cooling given that only 2 out of
4 walls are exposed (and in some apartments, it might be 1/4)?

If I wasn't tired, I'd look it up, but I have to imagine that apartment-style
"dense" living, is way more sustainable than almost any type of house.

~~~
dodedo
It seems your issue is with the concept of single family homes and urban
sprawl, not this particular method of building. That's a bit of a different
issue -- many people don't want to live in the middle of a city (such as
myself: I'm on a rather large lot in a 4 bedroom home)

It's true that high density housing is efficient, but if you are going to
build a single family home, strawbale is a great way to do it.

~~~
latch
I don't mean to rant on you, but I do like having this conversation :)

I don't think limiting what we view as sustainable to only the things we want
is being reasonable. Sure, there's degrees of sustainability, and we can talk
about it in those terms. But, when I look at the world, I no longer believe
that we are necessarily entitled to things that we want. Greeks, for example,
would like to continue living well beyond their financial means. Should they
be allowed to simply because they wish for it?

We have a good system to measure the financial cost of thing. So, at the very
least, what you want is something you need to be able to afford (although that
plays to the disadvantage of the truly poor). However, there are few checks in
places for the social costs, and even fewer for the environmental cost.

So while you want to live in a big house, and you can afford it, do you have a
greater social responsibility? Or, put differently (and possibility unfairly),
what impact would it have if the considerable number of people who lived in
such a dwelling moved to something more sustainable?

------
nkh
If your interested in cheap housing. Yurts are worth a look. They are used by
half the population of Mongolia, and can be very warm. They make a great cabin
retreat, but they are not quite as nice a normal american home without the
added expense and convenience of plumbing, electrical, etc...

However, in there base form, they cost around $5000. See the link below for
pricing:

<http://www.yurts.com/products/default.aspx>

(I am not affiliated with anyone selling any yurts, I just happen to like
them).

~~~
polshaw
Shipping containers are often used, which can be had for half this used.
Usualy a much better idea IMO. Refrigeration units offer good insulation,
often alongside partial burying of them. They can also look fairly like the
western norm inside.

Heres an example built with 2; [http://thechive.com/2011/07/26/unbelievable-
home-built-out-o...](http://thechive.com/2011/07/26/unbelievable-home-built-
out-of-two-shipping-containers-39-photos/)

e: also, a more aspirational one.. obviously more expensive and more
containers required;
[http://www.lowimpactliving.com/blog/2009/07/07/affordable-
sh...](http://www.lowimpactliving.com/blog/2009/07/07/affordable-shipping-
container-house-in-quebec/)

~~~
samstave
I love the idea of the shipping container home, especially when fixed up like
this - though I lack the skills/patience to DIY like in that link you posted.

There was an amazing compund a guy in Texas built from shipping containers,
shown on the show "Doomsday preppers" on TLC the other day.

[http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-
prepp...](http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-
preppers/prepper-bunkers-stockpiles-pictures/)

This guy used NINE containers for his thing.

I like the idea of prepping, but it still takes a good deal of resources to be
able to do stuff like that..

~~~
mc32
Here's a mid-rise made from shipping containers:
<http://www.citycenterlofts.net/>

And homes:

<http://zerocabin.com/>

Pretty impressive, given the basic template they're made from.

~~~
samstave
Looks like you'd still need a fair bit of structural steel to support that
citycenterlofts building. I would say the engineering skill needed is fairly
non-trivial, although straightforward -> i.e. not a low-cost DIY type of
structure.

I'd be interested in seeing the construction costs of that though, as compared
to a similar design not based on shipping containers.

I forgot about zerocabin - I had seen that site before. Thanks for the
reminder.

~~~
mc32
>Looks like you'd still need a fair bit of structural steel to support that
citycenterlofts building

That's likely, to conform to building code. Still, they stack those things
full of goods 7-8 high on shipping vessels.

------
ctdonath
While the house cute and quaint, cozy and cheap, methinks most of us are more
fond of modern straight-line homes than "hobbit" habitats.

For some time now I've been digging for info on building ultra-cheap housing,
starting with an interest in log homes and branching into "tiny houses". Goal
is to get my kids to earn and move into paid-off real estate by graduation.

To keep it short, here's some interesting links:

Tumbleweed Houses - <http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/> (plans starting at $20;
in one notable case, house built for $10K)

MIT $1K house project - <http://web.mit.edu/1khouse/> (seems defunct, but a
noble start)

Tiny House Blog - <http://tinyhouseblog.com/> (ongoing reviews of small and/or
inexpensive options)

Cheap houses - <https://www.google.com/search?q=cheap+houses> (there is a lot
of dirt-cheap real estate out there if you're flexible)

Free land - <https://www.google.com/search?q=free+land> (some jurisdictions
will, in fact, give you land free if you'll build a house & live there a
while)

~~~
bdg
I couldn't find anything regarding the free land you've mentioned. Do you have
any more leads?

~~~
ctdonath
Maybe Google gives us different results. One relevant link is
[http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/7-towns-where-land-is-
free...](http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/7-towns-where-land-is-free.html)

...BTW, I understand sections of Detroit are super cheap, and a motivated
developer might be able to leverage that.

~~~
freehunter
As a Michigan resident who has tried buying property in Detroit... many of the
cheap plots of land come with huge fines and back taxes attached. The owner
stopped paying taxes, and when the fines added up they skipped town. If you
buy that land, it's now your responsibility.

Not saying not to buy land in Detroit, there are lots of businesses making
good money on cheap land (and there are quite a few startups, especially
around Woodward Ave, see: Dan Gilbert). Just make sure to do your research to
keep away from any nasty surprises. That $25 half-acre with a plant already
built might actually cost $100,000 up front.

------
sodiumphosphate
Such things are built in the woods of Southern Oregon, and in my hipper days I
had the pleasure of living in some of them, and helped to build or refit a few
others.

It's all good until the roof fails catastrophically.

------
alan_cx
Here in the UK we have a show called Grand Designs on Channel 4. Its a show
about self builders. One of the episodes featured a guy called Ben
Law(S09E13). He is a woodsman who worked woodland in a strict conservation
area. He wanted a home in his woods, and did a similar thing but on a bigger
scale. For electricity, he had solar and wind power, feeding submarine
batteries. He collected and purified water. Waste waster was, IIRC, fed in to
a reed bed. He also had internet sorted out, cant remember how.

I cant find a decent site that shows the build, but for any one interested, it
worth a google. Ben has a website, but there is not much detail there. There
are also various vids on youtube.

For any one vaguely interested, this project is well worth look up.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Ben-law.co.uk

this was such a wildly popular (for channel 4) programme that they did a
follow up. He had built an extension for his new family (single originally,
and let's face it the project was a form of therapy) and was / is now making a
small income teaching others how to do it.

My concern, and only real defence of the construction industry, is there
probably are not enough hillsides and trees to go round. But as one living
opposite a building site, yes, the construction industry can stand to learn
one or two sustainability lessons

------
roqetman
The original link (has more detail):
<http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm>

------
myspy
In Germany: After digging out the first stone, the neighbors called the
building authority and declares a full stop to your efforts until you hand in
hundreds of papers and plans done by an architect and approved by a
constructional engineer -.-

------
hussong
German version: File your application for a construction permit for less than
€5000 (SCNR).

~~~
drats
I've been around the Internet for a long long time and that's the first time
I've seen "SCNR". As I had to search to see what it was I'd suggest you expand
it in future usage.

You are right in the point you make though, continental Europe is awash with
ridiculous red tape and pompous bureaucrats. Although I have to say I am
surprised that the he "got away with it" in the UK as it's not much better
there.

~~~
philwelch
Of course, your comment wasn't any help, either.

It seems to stand for "Sorry, Could Not Resist".

------
vishaldpatel
Did the house need to pass inspections / safety?

------
smallegan
Should be titled, live like a hobbit for $5000.

------
Retric
+1,000- 1500 man hours @ say 15$ / hour = a total of around 20,000 - 27,500$ +
land costs.

Which, is still great for such a cool house IMO.

------
bdg
I like what he's done and I'd love to do it if I could somehow work around a
few issues such as: I have a job, I can't build a house 8 hours a day for 30
weeks (1500 hours) and I can't get the land deal he did.

I'd be really interested in seeing an easily repeatable solution that doesn't
come down to living in squalor.

~~~
dagw
_I like what he's done and I'd love to do it if I could somehow work around a
few issues such as:_

 _I have a job_ :

Go down to 50-60%, adjust living expenses accordingly

 _I can't build a house 8 hours a day for 30 weeks (1500 hours)_

So go a bit more than 30 Weeks. Let's assume you work 3 days a week (60%). If
you average 4 hours a day on the days you work and 8 hours on the days you
don't, you'll be done in 60 weeks. Also there is nothing that says you have to
work on the project alone. If you have just one person helping you 50% of the
time, then you're down to 45 weeks.

 _I can't get the land deal he did_

Have you tried? Sure you probably won't get land next door to where you're
living right now, but if you're willing to relocate finding cheap or even free
land is far from impossible.

No one said that it was easy, and I'll be first to admit that it's not for me
and I'm not even going to try. But I'm also sure that for someone who really
wanted to do it and was willing to make the necessary sacrifices it's
certainly an option.

------
brador
How long is this house expected to last? did they remember to coat the wood?
termites and woodlouse are going to be a pain in the ass in that
location...and then there's the rain... and cold...

There's a reason we use modern materials, like bricks, modern insulation and
tiles, to build modern homes. They work and have proven robust (although mass
production has also lowered price on some less desirable materials). Nice
little project though.

~~~
gazrogers
Woodlice may be a problem, but we don't have much in the way of termite
infestations here in the UK.

------
csomar
[http://www.ciracar.com/img/weird/build_a_house_for_less_than...](http://www.ciracar.com/img/weird/build_a_house_for_less_than_$5000/build_a_house_for_less_than_$50004.jpg)

If it rains enough, I expect that the house will collapse.

Also what about Electricity, Water and Internet (ok there is wifi) but
electricity and water needs their proper setup. Gas is important too, if it
gets too cold, and I expect they want to cook something.

~~~
anthonyb
Strawbale walls + wood heater. Did you read the article at all?

------
sidman
Legendary ! that is pretty awesome. I guess there are conditions on where you
can do that and thinking about it now i cant think of anywhere near me where i
could do that if i wanted/could do it.

Though if i went back to where my parents came from in south east asia i could
think of alot of places where that would work.

------
sharpn
Reminds me of a Tony & Faith Wrench, who have done similar things a few times
in West Wales: <http://thatroundhouse.info/> Interesting couple.

------
tocomment
I feel like you'd need to know a lot of engineering to be able to design the
thing, and still be able to sleep at night knowing it won't collapse on you.

Also how does something like this work with county inspectors?

~~~
drostie
Well, you might be impressed.

Think about these massive Middle-Ages cathedrals done before we had Newton's
Laws and modern notions of engineering. How did the architects do it? Well,
they were hackers with a large budget. The architect usually had never built
anything on this scale before and had no idea how their much-smaller-scale
building experience would scale up. In particular, the fact that arches create
sideways stresses which tend to bulge a large, open building outwards wasn't
necessarily well-known by many of these architects.

So what did they do? They just tried it and saw what worked. They hacked it
together. If it doesn't start buckling and collapsing in the first month, it
could probably last for a couple hundred years, maybe more if the ground
doesn't shift in unexpected ways. The walls started bowing out? Then we'll
build structures to buttress them back in. There's a dangerous sagging
happening between these two columns? Well, place a third column in there!

Of course, wood offers a lot of questions as a building material, since it's
got a lot of energy in a bioactive form which lots of critters and cellular
lifeforms might enjoy eating, and therefore needs to be treated in ways that
might tend to prevent these critters from using it as a food source. Keeping
it not-wet is an important first step which isn't discussed very well in the
article.

But for what it's worth, this was the way you built houses before we had
engineering. You just went for it and spent a bunch of the year working on it,
and it better be successful because you've got to have a place to sleep this
winter.

~~~
kiwidrew
> Think about these massive Middle-Ages cathedrals done before we had Newton's
> Laws and modern notions of engineering. How did the architects do it? Well,
> they were hackers with a large budget. The architect usually had never built
> anything on this scale before and had no idea how their much-smaller-scale
> building experience would scale up. In particular, the fact that arches
> create sideways stresses which tend to bulge a large, open building outwards
> wasn't necessarily well-known by many of these architects.

That's a fascinating thought. I'd like to read more about this "hacking"
aspect -- can you point me to any references / citations?

~~~
drostie
Unfortunately the links I have are not of professional research quality, and
it might be better to email an academic who specializes in architecture from
before calculations. I have a couple saved bookmarks from when I first heard
about it several years ago. Here's an article in /The Caius Engineer/ vol. 17
nr. 1, a student publication from kids at the Gonville & Caius College of the
University of Cambridge:

[http://babylon.acad.cai.cam.ac.uk/students/study/engineering...](http://babylon.acad.cai.cam.ac.uk/students/study/engineering/engineer05/ceengdes.htm)

And here's a short book review about a book which might describe a dome that
was hacked together on a budget:

<http://www.reedsblog.com/?p=85>

I was reintroduced to this by a recent BBC series on architecture, though, and
I can't figure out which one it was! It could have been _Climbing Great
Buildings_ , which had some moments where they would sneak underneath these
great cathedrals and see what little bits had been "swept under the rug". But
it might have also been _Churches: How to Read Them_. (I vaguely think it's
the first because I have memories of some reference to Durham Cathedral
partially collapsing, but memories of this form are notoriously unreliable.)

Conclusion: we should develop ways so that we learn less by osmosis. When you
learn by osmosis, it's very hard to track down actual sources for the crap
you've learned, and you basically have to get lucky.

------
gutini
Has anyone read anything on Zach Klein's cabin in NY? Very curious how he went
about designing and building it. <http://beaverbrook.com/>

------
Cherian
Reminds me of Super Adobe by architect Nader Khalili.

<http://calearth.org/building-designs/what-is-superadobe.html>

------
giardini
Sure hope he used galvanized nails on that or he's in for some surprises in a
few years.

And how would you get something like this past a city inspector?

------
retrogradeorbit
And then the council comes and knocks it down because the plans were not
approved by the central bureaucracy!

------
Vivtek
You can get similar bang for your buck by firing your own bricks for a masonry
house. Nice project!

------
grk
There's no bathroom/toilet.

