
Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege - yardie
http://www.janellequibuyen.com/blog/quitting-your-job-to-pursue-your-passion-is-bullshit
======
zxcvvcxz
I don't understand the extremist views of blog posts like this. Do you really
need to think in such simplistic "truisms" and catch phrases?

> Quitting your job to pursue your passion is bullshit.

Not at all true. I know plenty of working class people who have saved money at
their day jobs, researched a small business opportunity, and chosen to pursue
it. A decent portion of them are succeeding beyond their wildest expectations.
All are glad to have had the experience and put their money where their mouth
(dream) is. You only live once after all. Not starting a business you wanted
to is not a stone you want to leave unturned, for a lot of people.

But there's some key points here. They saved money. They planned. They came up
with contingencies.

> This messaging is only beneficial for privileged people and very dangerous
> for working class people.

Right, throw away that ambition and continue to be my employee until the end
of time. This is the kind of thing I would write as a modern day "Lord of the
Manor".

Once again, be intelligent. Have an idea of your worth. Use the internet to do
research, learn about small businesses, and financial planning.

Of course there's a big difference between a working class person and the kid
who grew up in the valley with parents working at GoogleSoftBook who gets
shuttled into Stanford and isn't in a rush to pay loans or move out after
graduation, preferring instead to make mobile apps with his frat. That doesn't
seem to be what's being discussed though. It's just some vague attack at those
who go out on their own. I'm surprised this sort of post is getting upvoted on
HN. Are we a forum of spectators envious at those who chose to try that which
we did not?

As a final thought, people complaining about other people's privilege would be
doing themselves a much bigger favor if they got off their ass and worked to
maximize their own potential. Don't try to bring me down, work on bringing
yourself up. I'd be happy to help.

~~~
soham
Amen.

I'm one of those. I understand the intent of this article. It's however
unfortunate that the author has not come across enough success stories. Here
is mine, which is arguably very small, but came out of exactly the same
situation of an employee branching out:

* I saved, I was clear about not only what I like to do, but also what I'm good at.

* I couldn't get to it in my 20s, but I did get to it in my 30s.

* Yes, there was privilege, but not any more than so many of my friends and acquaintances have. I didn't come from money either.

* Yes, there was luck, but not any more than what I'd have needed to survive as an employee.

* Yes, there was agony of survival, still is, will continue to be, and only increase. But I expected that going in, and I carefully created a support system for it, which comes in handy in those tough times.

* Yes, there were unexpected events, including existential threats, but not any more than what I'd have had while working as an employee.

* It has only been a year and a half, and I'm in no position to sermonize, lecture and draw conclusions. But I know that I'm having a blast. I am answerable to nobody but reason, I have flexibility with my time like I never had, and I have immense satisfaction of being the first one to introduce a new useful thing to this planet and make an impact in lives of several of my customers.

But most importantly, it has afforded me life lessons which I'd have never had
otherwise and I can accelerate my kids into. Yes, I'm making more than I'd
have made in my job, but who is even looking at that?

[For the curious, I run this:
[http://InterviewKickstart.com](http://InterviewKickstart.com)]

~~~
zxcvvcxz
Congratulations on your success thus far, I think you've started a great
business that serves a real need. Hope it's people like you writing more blog
posts in the future.

Off-topic: a while back I toyed with the idea of making an interview coding
practice smartphone app, so people could practice anywhere or on the go. You
guys look into any mobile products? Feel free to run wild with the idea if you
like it =)

~~~
soham
Thanks! :-)

There already are a few mobile apps for this e.g. coderust, Job Bytes etc. In
fact, there are many excellent resources out there viz. books and websites.
Existence and availability of material is not a problem and will never be in
this connected world.

Problem is, that people don't get a chance to go thru that material properly.
It needs a lot of dedication and a strong support system, which many people
don't have. And hence, they squander a chance to work for best companies of
their times, or even reach their true potential. That is what the course
provides.

------
FreedomToCreate
Passion without genuine skill and knowledge is useless. You can be passionate
about many things, for example cars, but unless you put in the hours, your
passion doesn't mean you will be a great car engineer, or automotive company
executive.

[EDIT] Also want to add that people grossly underestimate the responsibility
of being their own boss. There are a lot of tasks you have to handle outside
of your usual work like finances, scheduling, client outreach, etc...

The OP seemed to understand this, but a lot of people will create a start-up
for the sake of being on the creating end of something without really knowing
how practical their venture really is.

Paul Grahm may disagree though.

~~~
yardie
There are lots of startups that I considered dumb. A messaging service that
only allows 140characters sounds ridiculous. But here we are.

In trying to start my own business I'm still learning to get over my own self
doubt.

~~~
rev_bird
> A messaging service that only allows 140characters sounds ridiculous.

It made a lot more sense when we used SMS to tweet.

~~~
yardie
It made sense at the time, and most people probably weren't around when you
could tweet by SMS, but almost 10 years later we're still working with this
imposed limit. And doing it well.

------
Animats
_" We are predatorily luring working class people into an entrepreneur
lifestyle as the answer to living a meaningful life and loads of money. It’s
the new American Dream."_

Yes.

Being an entrepreneur is about selling. Few people are good at selling. If
you're good at selling, you can make good money doing it for someone else.

Expecting most people to be good at selling is a cruel fantasy.

~~~
shopkins
What was the old American Dream, if not exactly that?

~~~
withdavidli
Good grades->good college -> good job -> marry -> buy house -> have kids. All
on a middle class salary. In the bay area that's probably about 100k/yr for a
household. Impossible these days.

~~~
ZenoArrow
I think the American Dream was a little less specific than that. AFAIK the
American Dream was that if you applied yourself, you could be anything that
you wanted to be. You see it with the movie trope of the kid who wants to
prove everyone wrong and be the next president of the United States.

------
blackrose
Was looking for something insightful, but I guess I haven't heard (and bought
into) the same stories as the author. I quit my job half a year ago to do the
"entrepreneurial lifestyle", but I'm not going around telling everyone to quit
their job and be as ostensibly great and care-free as I am.

Of course I'm thankful for my situation, and realize I'm luckier than many
Americans, and lucky to live in a prosperous country. But is it really
"privilege" to live frugally enough to save up for years, and then quit my job
to _pursue my passion_? Am I not supposed to do that at all? Am I supposed to
feel my privilege for having a job? Or computer skills? Or a computer in the
first place? Electricity? I don't know where, to the author, the privilege
train is supposed to end.

~~~
fucking_tragedy
As someone who did the same, most people do not have the privilege of having
an income where they can just quit working and live off of savings before
retirement. If they have a college education or home, they most likely have
loans that need to be paid and that ties them to a job.

> Am I not supposed to do that at all?

No one is suggesting that. We're just particularly lucky to be in this
position in the first place is all.

The privilege argument seems to come out when people like us lose that
perspective and expect others to do the same or are shocked when others won't.
I don't see this applying to you at all because

> I'm not going around telling everyone to quit their job and be as ostensibly
> great and care-free as I am.

~~~
blackrose
I definitely know most people don't make enough to do that, but people like
you or me _work_ and _plan_ for doing something like that. Even the author did
-- but she's not really proposing any solutions for the un-"privileged" or
even proving her "... is bullshit" thesis well. I guess that's the issue.

------
ravenstine
Life is full of trade-offs, and sometimes the choices you make don't work out.
The author sounds pissed off because they took a risk that didn't work out, so
he's telling everyone that it's objectively "bullshit" to make himself feel
better about his lack of success like it's someone else's fault. The fact is
that both the haves and the have-nots take these kind of risks all the time,
and few succeed. But some do and many still consider the chances worth the
risk, despite their failure. It really doesn't have that much to do with
privilege, so much as creating a mental fixture from a statement like "follow
your passion" and ignoring the fact that all statements are subject to
exceptions. Basically, the post reeks of bitter naive white guy problems, and
I want my 3 minutes back.

The fact that I am even here is evidence that I quit my previous career to
pursue a passion. I also don't assume that the same decision would work for
everyone. But I'd hardly call it "bullshit".

~~~
FreedomToCreate
I don't think you understood the point of the OP's article. This article is
calling out the motivation and entrepreneurship gurus who push the idea of
entrepreneurship like its some kind of way to unbind yourself and become truly
free to people who don't fully understand what it means.

~~~
rmtew
The article was about some woman who was unhappy and quit her job, and had
some resources to fall back on.

I am sure lots of points can be projected onto it, but the long and the short
is she didn't do a very good job at saying anything very clearly.

~~~
jm_l
Her clearest point to me was when she wrote:

"I don’t want anyone who works a 9-to-5 to feel like a fool for staying at a
stable job, or feel wrong if they actually enjoy it."

The whole romanticized narrative of quitting your job to pursue your passion
is certainly something I've encountered, and I appreciate her point of view on
that narrative.

------
spinPhysician
Ten years ago, the rhetorical buzzwords of that period had gotten really,
really tedious.

Words like:

    
    
      - Patriot
      - Freedom
      - Terrorism
      - Never Forget
      - If we don't do X, they win
    

Ten years later, and I'm glad those words are a joke by now.

But only to face new words:

    
    
      - Privilege
      - Trigger
      - Victim Blaming
      - Social Justice
      - Perpetuating false narratives
    

Buzzwords only have currency with people who want others to stop thinking
deeply about what they're reading or hearing.

When I see buzzwords, especially the politicized variety, I'm pushed away from
an article, because I sense an attempt to manipulate and pander to a preferred
audience, and that feels dishonest to me.

~~~
aub3bhat
My favorite new ridiculous word is "silent technical privilege"[1] , according
to which we now must apologize for having interests in technical subjects
since childhood, rather than socializing and getting drunk like rest of the
"unfortunate" kids.

[1]
[http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/...](http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/programmer_privilege_as_an_asian_male_computer_science_major_everyone_gave.html)

~~~
fao_
It isn't, and never has been, about apologising. It is about _recognising_
that you had a step-up based on being part of a particular demographic, and
then either acknowledging that other people won't necessarily have had those
step-ups, helping to level the playing field by giving extra help to those who
don't have that step-up, or both.

So, basically equalising things a wee bit.

~~~
morgante
This is a new low. Apparently putting in the work to learn things is now a
"privilege." We made the choice to spend our formative years immersed in
technology. We suffered as a result.

Maybe the bullies should start by apologizing and inviting us to their parties
instead of demanding that we give them jobs.

To be clear, I do agree that being middle class and having free time as a
teenager is a privilege. What I disagree with is that my choice to spend that
time programming instead of partying is a privilege.

~~~
lgessler
The premise you're assuming only holds if socioeconomics is constant. Imagine
being the child of two software engineers living in a house in the suburbs
with your own room and computer. Now imagine being the child of a single
mother who works two minimum wage jobs and lives in a cramped apartment in the
projects.

If the latter child doesn't end up spending as much time programming as the
former child, how much of it do you think was choice?

~~~
morgante
Maybe you missed the last paragraph of my comment?

I absolutely agree with the notion of socioeconomic privilege. For what it's
worth, I ended up making more than my (single) mother in my very first CS
internship.

~~~
lgessler
Sorry, completely glossed over it. Looks like we agree on this :)

------
Throwaway585250
It would be a real shame if the next Larry Page or Bill Gates decided to live
in a barrel instead of founding a company because of this sentiment. A happy
home and middle-class parents aren't a bad thing. In fact, they're so good
that everyone should have them. You should apply your advantages strategically
in order to affect change[0] in the world, and while doing so may not be
courageous, squandering the effort spent on raising you is a waste of time and
resources that helps nobody.

I live with a gardener who makes just above minimum wage[1] who is planning to
start his own business. For him not to do so would be a gigantic waste of his
skills, as he's far and away the most competent employee of his current boss.
He's courageous because he's going to take a carefully managed risk in order
to fully use his skills, even though his life is reasonably comfortable as is,
and by doing so will fractionally lower the cost of living for all the
residents of the apartment blocks he plans to service[2].

When people say "pursue your passion", what they really mean is "you are too
good for your current job, and staying there is a waste of your good fortune".
It's a goad to prod the elite into working and climbing long after they've
passed the point where they can live for the rest of their lives on savings
and investments, and to push the comfy middle class to go through the
extremely uncomfortable process of starting a business.

Having the audacity and wealth to single-handedly eradicate polio is also a
privilege, but Gates is currently trying to do it, because society taught him
that he'd be a good person if he did good things. Turning around and
denouncing entrepreneurs as privileged will make for fewer entrepreneurs, even
if it's true, in the same way as calling Gates a privileged do-gooder
sufficiently loudly might stop his charitable work in Africa.

[0] hopefully positive change, and hopefully change that uplifts others

[1] minimum wage here is quite a bit higher than in the US

[2] by raising supply; I'm not an economist, correct me if I'm wrong here

~~~
keerthiko
Despite the headline, I don't think the article is deriding quitting your job
for your passion. It is primarily about pointing out that it is from a place
of privilege usually that one takes the "leaps of faith" that are culturally
revered and respected, and is trying to recognize that.

I (and I would imagine the author) am all for people quitting their jobs for
passion, and being able to do so thanks to their privilege. But I do think
it's _very_ important for them to recognize those privileges, not wax too
poetic about the bravery and challenges involved (be strong and hustle non-
stop) as if people in other jobs don't have to do that, and not tout the act
as something anyone and everyone can/should do to lead a "fulfilling life."

------
Mendenhall
This article comes off very bitter to me, its like she failed so she is angry.

"But what bothers me most is how we prop up the entrepreneurial class to be
inherently brave and courageous."

I think she projects how she felt about entrepreneurs onto everyone else. I
never thought of them as inherently brave, there are many kinds.

One small other thought is if it wasnt for entrepreneurs everyone else would
have no one to work for. I am an entrepreneur not because of any particular
bravery, I just like knowing there is no one to blame but me if I fail.

------
cloudjacker
so this isn't the obvious "duh" post

tl;dr OP quit their job because they were depressed, got bombarded with quips
about how courageous they were, got seduced by conflating their depression
with a courageous career choice, then talks about what caused other people to
be so excited for them when entrepreneurial endeavors is a privilege reserved
for the upper class, instead of a practical social contract of the American
Dream

~~~
dwaltrip
No he is saying it is disingenuous & dangerous to pretend everyone can just as
easily quit everything and become your own boss, with the same risks. For
someone who is "less privileged" (or however you are supposed to describe it),
the consequences can be more severe if failure happens. While the rich, ivy
league grad whose endeavor flops can go home to pops and rebuild his resume,
hit up his network, and get a great job no problem. I agree that over-
stressing this current reality (as opposed to looking forward and being
optimistic) can make things worse. It is a tricky line to walk.

~~~
exolymph
*she

~~~
dwaltrip
I apologize.

------
noelwelsh
Couldn't agree more. I had a few rough years in business, that I only got
through due to various forms of good luck (my business partner, my domestic
partner, no debts, etc.)

Two other points I think are relevant.

First, people treat passions are something one is born to. The things I'm
interested in now I learned of mostly due to accident. For example, I got into
programming languages because I read Philip Greenspun's writing back in the
day, which took me to SICP, and from there onto other programming language
theory. I studies AI thinking I was interested in genetic algorithms and fuzzy
logic, but an inspiring lecturer got me interested in statistical machine
learning. These are just lucky accidents. There are many other areas that
would be just as deep that I could have landed in. A few chance encounters at
the right time and I might have ended up in graphics, or distributed systems,
or some other field away from computing.

Second, business as a sole trader is hard. It gets much easier when you can
share the load and specialise a bit.

------
dang
We've attempted to reword the baity title to express the spirit of the
article. If someone suggests a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title,
we can change it again.

~~~
stoichiometry
How about:

    
    
      Quitting your job to pursue your 
      passion is horse apples

~~~
dang
Profanity isn't the problem.

------
alex82398
It is not bullshit. I quit my job, and it worked fairly well, 6 figures in
remote job, I even got on stage with Google vice-president.

The problem is that you need to give it 100%. Otherwise you are just replacing
one job with another. It is not good idea to 'travel the world' while building
next startup. Best thing is to lock yourself in cheap basement, work 12 hours
day, take regular walks, eat and sleep.

What killed my passion was toxic marriage. I filled time I would spend at
work, with another task. And my passion was still on side track.

And author himself admits, he quit for other problems, following his passion
was sidetrack.

Anyway just one warning: it takes lot of dedication and self-control. If you
are struggling with procrastination etc, dont even think about it!

disclaimer: I am drunk

~~~
exolymph
*author herself

also lol at the disclaimer

------
yardie
The OP quits job and finds out that passion is not the same as
entrepreneurship.

------
mkalygin
Seems like this article messes up definitions of employment, freelance and
entrepreneurship. Being entrepreneur is not about getting money from the sky,
it's tough. It's about getting higher risks for greater benefits. But you need
to pay for it: plan your budget, time and efforts, be accountable and
disciplined, try to balance your risks and invest your time/money wisely.

This article is more about "employment is better than freelance". Seems like
the author had no passion neither as a full-time employee, nor as a
freelancer. It seems like the author don't know what passion really means or
simply has no priority for it in her life.

That's ok unless you say that entrepreneurship is "bullshit" for working
class. Sounds like a very biased statement. Everyone has their own way. There
is nothing wrong with people who have passion to something different than
full-time employment.

------
yarou
> We praise people that are “courageous” enough to quit their 9-to-5 and dive
> into the deep end of the exciting unknown. We idealize and romanticize the
> idea of being our own boss and being in charge of our own schedule. To take
> a risk and reap the bountiful benefits. Yet no one talks about the real
> sustainability or self-sufficiency of this formula when the playing field is
> never even.

There are risks and then there are calculated risks. In other words, you
should always know what you're getting yourself into ahead of time. A simple
understanding of evidential probability will yield you the proper decision
making tools in that regard.

I agree with the sentiment that privileged people have a softer landing if
they fail, but there are many examples of working class or even penniless
entrepreneurs becoming successful. Jan Koum comes to mind.

------
xivzgrev
"The concept is ideal for all, but not realistic for many"

Working on your own on something you are passionate about is, in fact, not the
ideal for all. Many many people see work as a paycheck. They derive their
meaning from activities from outside of work.

One could argue they could enjoy work more if they incorporated a passion into
it, but then what if they lose that stark line of separation? Some people may
actually enjoy a clear line between work (make the money) and fun/meaningful
stuff (spend the money on)

What if that passion loses its luster once its your work? What if you get most
meaning from close relationships, how do you incorporate that into a job?

I'm wary of most things that say this is the ideal for everyone. There are
universal needs but there are not universal ways to meet those needs.

------
batrat
In order to win the lottery you have to buy a ticket. Not everybody wins, but
that man can make a difference (or not ) in this world. We all have a shot at
the BIG prize.

~~~
sparkie
The author acknowledges this and isn't arguing about whether the lottery
exists, but what the stakes are. For the working class, they stake their
livelihood. It means that failing to win the lottery might mean starting a
career from scratch, that is, if they enough to still have roof and food.

------
justinhj
The article seems to imply there is a right and wrong answer to what is a very
personal question that depends on your exact circumstances.

------
known
To promote Entrepreneurs/Startups

1\. Impose tax on corporate revenues, not profits

2\. Regulate market capitalization of corporations

------
beatpanda
tl;dr "Being your own boss is hard work."

It's true that some people are going to have an easier time quitting a full
time job to pursue a passion than others. The correct response is for those of
us who have that privilege to do our best to recognize that not everyone can
do that, and then _enable those people for whom that 's harder._

Discussions of privilege derail when they turn in to "...and so you should
feel bad for being happy." No, you should recognize that if it's within your
power to help other people be as happy as you are, you have a responsibility
to do that.

~~~
xivzgrev
I dont think thats author was saying. Its just that when we paint the pretty
vision, we should be explicit about who is applies for / include disclaimers.
Otherwise some people who have obstacles in their reality that you did not
have may feel inspired, take a leap and...crash into those obstacles.

You cant be responsible for other peoples actions, but to the degree you can
be self aware about whom your advice applies to, you should.

------
kelukelugames
Risk taking isn't as brave when your partner pulls a few hundred thousand
dollars at a Fortune 500 company.

------
golemotron
The concept of privilege is passive-aggressive shaming. And that's remarkable
because shaming is passive-aggressive already.

~~~
dang
This account seems to be using HN exclusively for political/ideological
purposes. Please don't do that. It's not what this site is for.

