
Nootropics - raldu
https://www.gwern.net/Nootropics
======
Uptrenda
Right now, there are people in the nootropic community who are using
experimental compounds that haven't yet passed clinical trials and in some
cases have no prior history of human use at all. A large portion of the data
used by communities like this (even "self-experimenters") -- use cargo cult
pseudo-science to justify their drug use -- something that can go horribly
wrong in inexperienced hands.

The majority of these people aren't even testing their compounds. They take
them blindly or rely on the reputation of other people to tell them that its
safe - mostly because they're ignorant, lazy, cheap, impatient or some
combination thereof. They also have very little understanding of pharmacology
or basic science, and I've seen first hand accounts from drug enthusiasts who
go on to describe how they can "feel" the actions at various receptors in
their brains based on something they've poorly understood from reading
Wikipedia for 5 minutes (which is just complete nonsense.) And what's worse,
is that there’s no easy way for the average person to tell what information is
good since so much of the Internet is written to seem authoritative.

Suppose I Google a question and find a well-written blog post on serotonin
interactions between various drugs that answers my question. Am I really going
to know that the article is inaccurate, bias, or incomplete? Or am I going to
walk away feeling like I've learned something, because I hate to say it but --
that's largely what the web is these days. None of the real information is on
the surface because that would be far too boring for the average reader and
boring content doesn't sell. Now combine this with drug use and you have a
toxic mix of ignorance that can literally kill people.

I could go on about this subject but I won't rant any more. Just keep in mind
that a lot of what’s written about nootropics (and other drugs) is no where
near as clean or as simple as the Internet makes it seem, and that most people
aren't even in a position to use caffeine therapeutically - let alone safely
negotiate complex, poorly understood, and potentially unknown compounds they
bought from the Internet (so try not to take Gwern at face value.)

~~~
JamesBarney
While individuals that are ignorant, lazy, cheap, and impatient exist in all
communities, Gwern(the author) does not possess any of those qualities. He is
probably one of the least lazy, ignorant, and impatient people I have read
online.(I didn't mention cheap because his writing doesn't give me any
illumination into his spending habits)

------
throwaway__123
Zoloft

I am afraid of sounding like a shill, but the fact is I'm 30 engineer, who has
been trying to feel better my whole life through experiments with: ketamine,
CBD, various nutrients, various dietary changes, exercise, being more social,
meditation. None of them made lasting improvement like sertraline has, I wish
I had been open-minded enough to try it years ago.

In retrospect, maybe it was ridiculous to try to find happiness with all
methods other than the ones there are best medical evidence for... I guess I
was afraid that somehow I'd be conceding there was something "wrong" with me
(which is wonk). I was wondering why nobody had ever mentioned this before,
and I realized people who use prescription medications are probably afraid to
admit it. So I'm just putting out my sincere recommendation out there, as I
wish somehow had done for me.

~~~
chillacy
I'd like to offer a story of caution, and I do so with some hesitation because
it sounds like it's been good for you so far. A friend of mine lost his life
after committing suicide a month after starting Zoloft. His last messages to
me were a discussion of what serotonin syndrome was like. He was excited and
curious as always, which after reading online is common. I know I shouldn't
blame the drug since he was depressed before... but it sucks to lose someone
when it seems like their life was on the upward climb. Anyways, stay safe and
be careful.

~~~
abrichr
This is a well documented reaction to the beginning of treatment for
depression. Essentially the reason is that before they started treatment, they
had no motivation to do anything. After they start the treatment, but before
they've waited long enough to realize the benefits, they have enough
motivation to end their lives.

~~~
gf263
Wow. That sounds like a sick joke.

~~~
nathanasmith
I'll offer this tidbit.

I started taking Prozac and not long after I got on it, things started to seem
a little better. I recall, one day, actually having the thought, Hey, maybe
suicide isn't such a bad idea after all. Consider the fact that still having a
good bit of depression yet feeling relief from anxiety actually made suicide
seem like a viable option. I still get chills when I think about it.

SSRIs aren't for everyone, that's for sure.

------
Galaxeblaffer
Wow.. This dude..

I've tested a couple of the mentioned drugs myself and thought i'd chip in
with my results and learnings

Modafinil/Armodafinil

Definitely works and the side effects are neglectable. It's much as he
describes it but im not sure why he can't feel it some of the time as the
effect on me is really strong, especially with armodafinil which was almost
too much to be hanging around other people :) You feel very awake like a mild
cocaine high but have an easy time focusing on the task you are doing, i can
definitely recommend it for all nighters and situations where you have to get
something out the door !

Melatonin

I've experienced quite a bit with this, since i have really really hard time
falling asleep. It's actually a huge issue for me. i've found that
"microdosing" works even better than taking the "normal dose" of 2-3mg. I
found a supplier in the Netherlands who sells 300ug pills and they have worked
wonders for me ! works just as well as the stronger dose but it seems that the
lower dose makes you sleep better.

Just my 2 cents :)

~~~
zebraflask
Agreed on the smaller doses of melatonin. A full tablet (5 or 10mg) tends to
have the opposite effect and make me even wider awake after an hour or so of
sleepiness. Someone told me once that most tablets are dosed too strong simply
because it's an inexpensive supplement, and in the manufacturing process, it's
cheaper to use the production templates used for other supplements that are
dosed in higher amounts.

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
Not sure that makes much sense; tablets are mostly a binding agent that's
mixed with a fairly small amount of active ingredient. In most cases, you
simply have to change the ratio of binder to achieve the desired dose. Even a
10mg tablet would be very small indeed.

More likely it's demand from people that generally think 'more = better'.

~~~
zebraflask
It's the cost to change the factory line processes. If you're set to pump out
10mg tablets, and it's cheaper to just use more product than recalibrate your
machines, then . . . there you go.

------
hasbroslasher
So you're telling me you alter your biochemistry to become more productive
without a care for how it affects your overall (mostly mental) health? Hell, I
started smoking cigarettes at 16, which I rank near the top of my worst
decisions ever, despite the fact that it helped me hack my brain chemistry as
I powered through numerous difficult math and CS classes with top scores. As a
result, I spent years thrashing, kicking the insane habit and returning to
baseline healthiness.

To me, the entire idea of performance-enhancing chemicals is the essence of
Moloch ([http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-
moloch/](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/)) - the
supposed optimization that we choose to "gain an edge" and end up worse off
than if everyone had just been a bit more cynical and abstained. To what ends?
Eventually this kind of thing ends up costing you $50 a month and keeping you
on par with everyone else in the office (who also happen to brain-chemistry-
hack), side-effects be damned.

Luckily, I can fall back on my experience and relative skill at programming.
Many cannot - as a late-aughts college student and "yuppie", I saw "the best
minds of my generation destroyed by madness" induced by incessant Adderall use
in a futile attempt to either "keep up" or "get ahead". To what ends? Some
sped their way through upper-levels or toiled through back-breaking entry
level jobs only to develop near psychosis, emotional numbness, apathy, and a
resume piece that I too gained with considerably less strife.

Don't get me wrong, I drink a cup of coffee (or two) in the mornings to get
going, but it's usually an break from my workday, not an essential part of it.
More than that, it's enjoyable - added focus and clarity be damned. Silly as
it may sound, I've even seen coffee become a problem for the hopelessly driven
and chronically sleep-deprived - reducing them to diarrhea-ridden, jittery
maniacs!

Maybe the TL;DR here is: sleep more, bike hard, and have some fun struggling
instead of constantly grinding for carrots on sticks. It is true, after all,
that many people (men, in particular) say their greatest regret was working so
hard - [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-
fiv...](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-
of-the-dying)

~~~
orangecat
_To me, the entire idea of performance-enhancing chemicals is the essence of
Moloch_

Moloch specifically refers to zero-sum games. Intelligence enhancement is not
that; if everyone in the world gained 10 IQ points we would almost certainly
be far better off.

 _To what ends?_

Curing cancer and Alzheimer's, getting self-driving cars on the road by 2025
instead of 2030, colonizing Mars, figuring out how to fix our diets without
requiring infinite willpower, etc, etc.

~~~
saiya-jin
you need only a bit of willpower to fix your own diet, nothing more. many
people are unwilling to get into any form of unpleasant state (ie abstaining
from sweet stuff, workouts etc), they are 'too soft' and avoid hardships.
that's all.

and none of what you mentioned could be magically achieved by one person
popping a pill to gain some short term effect, and probably lose something in
longer run. feel free to experiment on yourself, just please don't force
anyhow this pitiful activity on others.

~~~
Houshalter
The vast majority of diets fail in the long run. Fat people forced to lose
weight develop the symptoms of starving people and obsess about food, and
always quickly return to their previous weights after release. During diets
their metabolisms slow down to keep them at the same body weight despite the
decreased calories.

~~~
saiya-jin
that's because people are 'lazy' \- they don't want to do the hard work,
rather they spend significant amount of time, energy and cash to chase pure
dietary solutions. they expect that some 30-day dietary course will change
their life, especially when right after they go back to their old eating
habits. obviously, it doesn't work, ever. so they try another diet and so
on...

I believe massive changes in life can be done just by permanently altering
diet, but best, fastest and most durable results are in combination of diet
and exercise. proper workout stimulates metabolism, makes people more happy
and the feeling of strength and endurance coming from your own body is just
priceless. oh and it prolongs life too on top of adding massive quality to it.

did I laid out a massive change in somebody's life? yes. so what? great
rewards come after great hardships, naturally. but many people will keep
throwing money at their problems, refusing to change, instead of pouring sweat
for free and keep wondering why it doesn't work.

~~~
Houshalter
People don't have infinite willpower. There is no magical distinction between
minds and bodies. We are just animals and we are _genetically programmed_ to
strongly desire to eat food. The _vast majority_ of people who attempt to diet
fail.

When diets work, they require pushing the body to the point of starvation and
keeping it there, which is just not sustainable. The body goes into starvation
mode and tells the brain to do everything it can to sustain food. No amount of
willpower can overcome that.

[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewant...](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewanted=all)

> fat people who lost large amounts of weight might look like someone who was
> never fat, but they were very different. In fact, by every metabolic
> measurement, they seemed like people who were starving.

>The Rockefeller subjects also had a psychiatric syndrome, called semi-
starvation neurosis, which had been noticed before in people of normal weight
who had been starved. They dreamed of food, they fantasized about food or
about breaking their diet. They were anxious and depressed; some had thoughts
of suicide. They secreted food in their rooms. And they binged.

>Eventually, more than 50 people lived at the hospital and lost weight, and
every one had physical and psychological signs of starvation. There were a
very few who did not get fat again, but they made staying thin their life’s
work, becoming Weight Watchers lecturers, for example, and, always, counting
calories and maintaining themselves in a permanent state of starvation.

------
cavisne
Its concerning to see Modafinil on the same list of "defaults" as caffeine and
vitamin D. They are on a different scale when it comes to the effect on your
brain.

That aside, my anecdotal experience of mod is its basically a waste of time.
Sure you stay awake longer but we can all easily procrastinate a day away
regardless, it wont make you any more focused or any smarter. If you for some
reason need to improve your focus for a period then dexamphetamines are the
way to go, of course you should not pop them every day.

~~~
cariaso
You suggest that it does work, but that procrastination is still possible.
fair enough. But if it doesn't keep you awake, it's possible that you're one
of the ~15% of the population who is a non responder due to:

rs4680(A;A)

aka Met/Met at COMT Val158Met

via
[http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680(A;A)](http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680\(A;A\))

rs4680(G;G) carriers deprived of sleep respond quite well to 2x 100mg
modafinil in terms of improved vigor and well-being, and maintained baseline
performance with respect to executive functioning, whereas rs4680(A;A)
individuals barely responded to the drug at all.

via
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19037200](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19037200)
Two-time 100 mg modafinil potently improved vigor and well-being, and
maintained baseline performance with respect to executive functioning and
vigilant attention throughout sleep deprivation in Val/Val genotype subjects
but was hardly effective in subjects with the Met/Met genotype.

~~~
gwern
I should mention that I no longer think Rs4680 has anything to do with
modafinil response. It was a candidate-gene study, so it was always in
considerable doubt, and when I asked about Rs4680 in my modafinil survey
(draft:
[http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil%20survey](http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil%20survey)
), 216 people had their Rs4680 status available and it did not correlate with
their self-evaluations of how effective modafinil was for them (slightly the
opposite, actually). This is ~10x bigger than the original study which was
also based on self-report and if anything, you would expect a survey to be
biased towards finding an effect since people know about the earlier report...

------
Moshe_Silnorin
Gwern's Patreon:
[https://www.patreon.com/gwern](https://www.patreon.com/gwern)

------
gregrata
A summary would be awesome - I appreciate the amount of work and details that
went into this, but a list of what worked and didn't would be a great start -
interested readers could then dive into details

~~~
tonyhb
Reddit actually has an active nootropics community with a wiki for beginners:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics/wiki/beginners](https://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics/wiki/beginners).

The standard stuff is L-Theanine + Caffeine. For cognitive enhancement any of
the "racetams" are considered proven, and you branch out into untested army
drugs when you take modafinil.

I've tried each of these and stick with L-Theanine and Caffeine daily.
Piracetam had no visible effect on me. Modafinil got me through 36 to 50 hour
work days straight, at crunch time when deadlines were needed for an old job.
Work was probably at about 60% of its best at the time – easy to get into the
zone but also not quite my best. I know it's not healthy but I was also
curious and happy to try it out of personal curiosity. YMMV :)

~~~
wutbrodo
> you branch out into untested army drugs when you take modafinil.

What on earth are you talking about? Modafinil is very much _not_ an "untested
army drug". It's pretty well-studied, approved for use by the FDA, and
available for sale (with prescription) under multiple names in the US, and by
prescription with no other legal restrictions in most other countries. It has
a freaking WebMD page[1]!

[1] [http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-16964/provigil-
oral/detail...](http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-16964/provigil-oral/details)

~~~
tonyhb
I totally thought it was untested back when I did it, though that was 6 years
ago. And one of the few things I read about it in terms of studies was its
effects on army pilots during 12+ hour training sessions here:
[http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA533725](http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-
bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA533725), hence why I thought it was an army drug.

Learned something new today.

~~~
aburan28
They used to give air force pilots dextroamphetamine for long flights but
recently decided to make a switch to Modafinil

------
pmoriarty
Self-experimentation has a long history in medicine. An interesting book on it
is "Who Goes First?"

[https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-
Experimentation-M...](https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-
Experimentation-Medicine/dp/0520212819)

------
perfectfire
I've been on (legally, with a prescription) Modafinil (4 straight days of
nausea), Armodafinil (made me really sleepy), Dextroamphetamine (3 times
including right now), Adderall (constantly felt sick), Adderall XR (even worse
than Adderall), Ritalin SR (about the same as Adderall), Bupropion twice
(Wellbutrin, no noticeable effect). Pretty much everything other than
Dextroamphetamine either made me feel sick or strangely for Nuvigil made me
sleepy. All of them, except Wellbutrin, Provigil (which I didn't take long
enough to notice it's primary effect) and Nuvigil could keep me awake. At
least at first.

The first few times you take it or you go up a dose it feels pretty amazing.
For some reason I want to say it feels like your head is full of light, but
don't even know what that's supposed to mean. There's some extra energy and a
little more motivation, but if you're looking for a pill that will turn you
into a super-productive maniac look elsewhere. It mostly just keeps you awake
and what little extra motivation you gain will be offset in part or in full by
being more more easily distracted. I've never noticed any sort of increase in
cognitive function. What I have noticed is that I get exhausted from physical
effort very quickly.

When I take it long enough I start to pick off all of my facial hair (there
was maybe a year where I never shaved, but had no facial hair), and lose a lot
a weight quickly. Recently I dropped around 40 pounds in a few months.

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
Like you, I once was on a roller-coaster of cognition enhancing drugs. I did
find that I was more productive, but only if I planned out what exactly I
wanted to do beforehand and removed all distractions from my workspace. (Phone
on airplane mode in another room, email/chat closed, websites blocked, etc.)
However, the side effects made it rarely worth it.

However, I started going to see a new doctor. He recommended to Selegiline. I
had some reservations, as it is officially classified as a MAOI, but he had
some impressive credentials (PhD in neurobiology and MD, Postdoc in
psychopharmacology and neuronal regeneration, APA President, wrote APA
Textbook of Psychopharmacology) and seemed personally familiar with it.

It has been a revelation for me. It provides similar benefits without the
tunnel-vision or distractibility. Most importantly, it doesn't have a
noticeable narcotic/stimulant effect, nor does it have the dietary
restrictions of MAOI. It does partly metabolize into Levoamphetamine and
levomethamphetamine, but it's a minimal amount and you don't feel it. I'm
still young, so I cannot attest to its supposed anti-aging/neuroprotective
qualities.

~~~
perfectfire
> Selegiline

Interesting. I just moved and my new doctor just recently suggested maybe
trying MAOI's. I've found a medication that has been absolutely wonderful for
depression, but I have yet to find anything that helps with anxiety other than
Klonopin and that's definitely not a long-term solution (I'm tapering off of
it for the second time right now). I haven't been taking stimulants for ADHD
though, I've been taking them for narcolepsy.

I'll definitely look into Selegiline now, thanks!

Edit: Oh wait:

> it doesn't have a noticeable narcotic/stimulant effect

I kind of need the stimulant effect because of the narcolepsy.

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
Modern SSRI's are not more effective at treating depression or anxiety than
drugs from the 1960's including MAOI's. In fact, MAOIS raise the level of 3
neurotransmitters (norepinephrine, serotonin and dopamine) while SSRI's
usually only effect serotonin. I believe effexor inhibits one more
neurotransmitter. They fell out of favor because they required such a strict
diet and had severe interactions with many OTC medications.

I've never heavily researched the exact pharmacology, but the patch version of
Selegeiiline is completely safe as long as you don't gorge yourself on aged,
aromatic cheeses or a bucket of miso soup. The only thing I've had to restrict
is ingesting amino acid supplements as it's high in tyrosine.

I'd still check it out as I have recently discovered that Selegiline is the
Holy Grail of nootropics. Medications for Parkinson's and Alzheimer's tend to
have neuroprotective properties and there is even decent evidence of
neurogenesis.

> I kind of need the stimulant effect because of the narcolepsy.

The first few days I was on the medication, I did feel an adderall-like
effect. My doctor told me that the 10mg patch does metabolize to about a 5-10
mg dose of adderall. Perhaps your doctor will prescribe a higher dosage to
counter that effect.

BTW, you have to be one of the few people I've talked to that took Provigil
for it's intended effect.

~~~
perfectfire
I've been through so many anti-depressants, but I've found something really
works well. It's actually an anti-psychotic. Not an S[S|N]RI combined with an
anti-psychotic, just the anti-psychotic alone does the job really well.

When I looked up Selegiline I recognized the brand name and patch delivery
mechanism. It sounds good, but I don't really need the anti-depressant effect.
I went on to look at Moclobemide which looks like exactly what I need.
Unfortunately it's not available in the United States, but if the only thing
standing in my way of not feeling panicky and anxious all the time and not
having any libido is buying something on the internet I think I need to
research what are some good online pharmacies.

------
empath75
Not to generalize but this totally looks like something someone hopped up on
amphetamines would write. Get to the point, man.

~~~
RandomInteger4
I think the point was revealed in the first line. "A record of nootropics I
have tried, ..."

I don't think it's supposed to be looked at as a one shot article or blog
post, but rather a collection of notes / anecdotal evidence / experimentation.

------
bbctol
There is a huge, huge placebo effect when it comes to cognitive enhancement,
and while I understand that this is intended as a series of anecdotes, it
still seems that the author doesn't fully understand this. Most notably, for
his attempts at blinding himself, he doesn't seem to have measured any
_actual_ _cognitive_ _improvement_ , just whether or not he could successfully
distinguish drug and placebo. This is a large misunderstanding of experimental
design and the placebo effect; most of these drugs definitely do cause
physiological effects that can be detected, and the great worry with respect
to Adderall etc. effectiveness is that people confuse rapid heartrate and
quickly focusing vision with increased mental ability, without actually
improving much.

~~~
computerphage
I think Gwern understands many of the limits of his experimental design. He's
has written extensively on a wide variety of statistical and scientific
topics.

Here's an example related to placebo that's linked to from his blog.
[http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/689936-My-Paper-quot-
Noo...](http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/689936-My-Paper-quot-Noopept-amp-
The-Placebo-Effect-quot?p=11910708&viewfull=1#post11910708)

See also:
[https://www.gwern.net/Statistical%20notes](https://www.gwern.net/Statistical%20notes)

I'm not saying he's a perfect researcher, but give him some credit instead of
assuming he doesn't understand what he's talking about.

~~~
argonaut
That would be even worse - he knows the limits of the designs and chooses to
ignore them anyways and publish anecdata.

------
elevensies
Melatonin has made it possible for me to sleep much more consistently which
has been a huge help, since I saw Gwern's post on it a while ago.

~~~
throwaway123912
Melatonin has worked wonders for me as well. However it's worth mentioning
that the 3mg capsules I bought are WAAAY too strong and cause me to wake up
with a dry mouth and a headache after a couple of hours of intense dreaming
and nightmares. Instead now I split the caps open and take a tiny fraction of
the melatonin every night. It takes me a few weeks to go through a single
capsule.

~~~
aidenn0
Trader Joes sells 500mcg tablets.

~~~
thatswrong0
Plus they're chewable. Probably the most convenient though a tad expensive.

------
fowlerpower
Does anyone else think this shit is totally bat shit crazy?

I may be of the minority here but I am definitely not the minority in the real
world.

If you care about health why not exercise and eat healthy and never take any
type of drug for any reason unless you are sick.

~~~
RachelF
Most of us take drugs like caffeine and alcohol pretty often.

The person who made this site has been willing to test, meticulously document
and analyse his results. He's pretty informed as to the side-effects, so no, I
don't think he's "bat shit crazy", he's doing us a service.

~~~
daveguy
His testing and analysis are not exactly rigorous. Even with an N=1 he
comments about how he can smell the difference between the placebo and
treatment.

In his most highly rated drug, modafinil, he took it on 8 different days and
could tell which one it was 5/8 times.

8 days, couldn't tell the difference 3/8 times and it is his most highly
recommended drug.

He definitely needs to try drug free, exercise and sleep over a month.

~~~
ajkjk
If you know someone who has better data, I'm sure everyone would like to read
it.

You have to at least be impressed with the level of rigor he _did_ manage for
a person working alone to test hundreds of chemicals.

~~~
jamestnz
This post reminded of a similar effort from 25 years ago:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiHKAL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiHKAL)

This guy produced and personally tested over 150 different psychedelic
compounds, and published his notes on synthesis, dosage and effects.

------
dandare
How is this compilation of anecdotal evidence even a thing on HN?

 _I performed well on the Cambridge mental rotations test. An anecdote, of
course, and it may be due to the vitamin D I simultaneously started. Or
another day, I was slumped under apathy after a promising start to the day; a
dose of fish & coconut oil, and 1 last vitamin D, and I was back to feeling
chipper and optimist._

------
lhl
I see a lot of dense experimental designs on this page - is any of this
abstracted into a simple tool/methodology for use for self-testing (I've
noticed some big differences when taking Vitamin D (I'm usually deficient),
B-Complexes, etc but don't have a great way to isolate/correlate especially
against other factors like sleep or travel...

------
xarope
I sleep like a babe most of the time (in my late 40's). I attribute this to
three main factors:

\- little/no caffeine everyday (I do love chocolate, but I don't eat it
everyday)

\- exercise, both strength and conditioning (not just HIIT, but also LSD)

\- and importantly, ability to mentally box up and put aside highly stressful
or critical issues (I mull over them and rigorously tear them apart, then
decide on the first step - how to eat an elephant? one small bite at a time.
If my subconscious then processes it further, all the better the next morning
after a good night's sleep).

~~~
swah
Point 3 is the hardest for me - I never stopping worrying about personal
things at work, and work related stuff at home..

------
joelmeckert
I used a stack this summer, noopept, l-theanine, aceytl-l-carnitine (alcar),
caffeine, taurine, huperzine-a, l-tyrosine, modafinil, DHEA. I did a year's
worth of work in a month and a half. . . My employer benefited, became
proficient in PowerShell in two weeks with little coding experience, worked 16
hour days (it was that busy), but lost out on life, although they offered me a
development position after the project. Dropped out of road biking as I wasn't
eating enough to do group rides, dropped 15 pounds in a month and a half
(which isn't a terrible outcome).

At the end of the day, my employer could care less about the hours and
outcomes of the project, it was a total waste of time. Stay normal, have good
relationships in life, routine, exercise, diet. It didn't result in any net
happiness gains, analytical mind took over and I became good at doing things
for other people, but not living.

------
blazespin
Pretty impressive work. I personally use nicotine gum (as does President
Obama, a health nut) as I'm allergic to caffeine. I have used melatonin in the
past, though given this I will use it more now.

The key I find is to only use them when you have already outlined in a
detailed way a significant set of tasks that need to be performed or a
particularly critical meeting where you already have a very strong background.

For learning, general creative process I don't use them.

The biggest problem is managing the physical addiction (ie, you feel very
tired) when you're not taking them.

Also there is some evidence that nicotine increases incidence of cancer. Not
to mention what it does to my blood pressure, though I find constant exercise
helps manage that.

~~~
RandomInteger4
I don't know if I'd call President Obama a health nut; maybe Michelle, but not
sure about Barack, unless he quit smoking and switched permanently to the gum.

~~~
dajohnson89
Nicotine gum is awful for your teeth and gums, and there's a lot of anecdotal
evidence that it thins out hair.

~~~
nhaliday
Do you have a source for the first assertion? I can't find any studies on
google.

I'm skeptical because people so often attribute many of the negative effects
of other chemicals in tobacco to nicotine with no evidence (a point the OP
hammers home at
[https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine](https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine)). Even the
FDA seems comfortable with this conflation, as evidenced by their disposition
toward e-cigs.

~~~
dajohnson89
Academic studies? No, sorry, I can't find any either. Here's a a source of
anecdotal evidence, FWIW.
[http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=18612&name=NI...](http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=18612&name=NICORETTE)

~~~
nhaliday
It would be pretty hard to separate the effects of nicotine from the effects
of a lifetime of smoking + potentially poor dental hygiene (gum disease is
rampant [https://www.perio.org/consumer/cdc-
study.htm](https://www.perio.org/consumer/cdc-study.htm)) + aging.

Per wikipedia
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine))
the general medical consensus is that nicotine poses few risks on its own for
nonpregnant adults, besides vasoconstriction and dependence.

------
partycoder
Did he perform all these experiments on himself?

It's hard to conduct these experiments with a population of 1 and no control
group.

~~~
flukus
Actually it's incredibly easy, just not statistically relevant.

~~~
partycoder
Well, remember it requires prescription only medication.

------
ilitirit
I maintain that much of this still comes down to the individual.

I don't about anyone else's experiences, but Modafinil seems to have a
positive effect on me in terms of the way I work. I use it maybe once a week
if I feel I need to focus.

Placebo? Who knows. Same effect as living a healthy lifestyle? Probably not,
but then again I've never tested it. Does it have the same effect on everyone
I know? Some say yes, others say it does nothing for them. But that's not
strange at all. Some people just have different experiences with different
things.

------
ared38
Shoutout to examine.com which aggregates and assesses research studies for
nootropics and other supplements

~~~
AstralStorm
Of which there are surprisingly few. Big pharma has trouble marketing those,
typical attempts include Alzheimer, stroke management, ADD and narcolepsy,
which are pretty hard to run a trial for. These are good enough to establish
safety at least. There are even fewer in people without disorders.

------
mentos
Funny timing of this article. Just 3 days ago I was sitting at my desk and had
this awesome calm come over me, something I've only ever experienced at the
end of a long day when a hangover finally breaks. I looked at the ingredients
in the two "Just Chill" drinks on my desk and noticed each had 150Mg of
"Suntheanine" which was one of the listed nootropics in this article.

~~~
DiabloD3
Suntheanine is a brand of synthetic L-theanine. It is considered the highest
grade L-theanine you can get, but not sufficiently better enough than the
others to pay extra for it.

300mg of L-theanine is equivalent to about 12 to 38 cups of tea (tea naturally
has a wide range of L-theanine content, depending on the tea and how it is
processed). Up to 1,200mg daily is considered safe, however, like with all
drugs, you should only take as much as needed to get the effect you want.

------
delegate
I've experimented with nootropics about 10 years ago. I was on a regimen of
Piracetam, Hydergine and several others, the names of which I don't remember
now, plus the usual vitamins, fish oil, etc.

I did the nootropics for about 2 months or so.

Short term I've felt improvement to my memory, my thinking has changed, I had
more mental energy and sharpness.

However, it also changed my personality and the way I was seeing other people,
which resulted in me gathering the courage to separate from my wife.

In retrospect, this was a very good move for both of us, but at that time it
wasn't that peachy.

I've stopped taking those nootropics because I didn't like the robot that I've
become.

However I still like the idea of chemically tuning your consciousness.

10-15 micrograms of LSD is the solution for me, because it opens me up
emotionally, increases enjoyment of music and art, while also allowing me to
tackle complexity with ease.

------
rubber_duck
A shame no info on testosterone - that's the one I'm most interested in both
from physical and psychological perspective, I know a few people who used it
but they are in physical/service jobs, I wonder how it would affect
programming productivity.

Any throwaways here willing to share their experiences ?

~~~
mudd343
I've also been self-prescribing testosterone for years, dosage ranging from
200mg/week to 3,000mg/week. I find the sweet spot to be around
200mg-500mg/week. Anything higher makes me lethargic, at 3000mg/week I would
sleep 15 hours and get almost nothing done, of course at 3000mg the physical
results were dramatic. I could sit on my ass and eat a gallon of ice cream all
day and still lose body fat. In my experience negative effects are most
prominent when there is fluctuations of hormone levels, such as when changing
the dosage dramatically. Of course it isn't a magic drug, the effects are slow
and gradual. How it will affect programming productivity, I would say is
subjective, but it will give you an overall better sense of well being.

------
wonkaWonka

      ...if caffeine were a new drug, I wonder what 
      Schedule it would be in and if people might 
      be even more leery of it than modafinil.
    
      ...
    
      So I eventually got around to ordering another 
      thing of nicotine gum...
    
      A second dose was similar, and the third dose 
      was at 10 PM before playing Ninja Gaiden II 
      seemed to stop the usual exhaustion I feel after 
      playing through a level or so.
    

Okay, I'm no longer part of the gwern fanclub. I could pick apart other
aspects of this article, but I'll refrain, since it's not without a modicum of
practical utility.

Yes, he writes very lengthy, detailed articles. Lovely. But they are
anecdotes. And artisanal anecdotes at best.

To summarize gwern: A layman tries some stuff that is innately accessible to
any layman, and writes haughtily aloof essays.

~~~
6nf
The article literally states that it is only anecdotal in the very first
paragraph.

~~~
wonkaWonka
In what way should that change my reaction?

What's your reason for believing it should?

I'm asking these questions rhetorically.

------
pw
I've been on modafinil for a number of years now (prescribed by a doctor in
relation to a real medical condition). It is indeed a very interesting drug.
There's a reason it's the brand names are Provigil and Nivigil. "Vigilant" is
indeed a very good way to describe how it makes you feel. Like caffeine but
cleaner (no jitters, etc.).

The downside is that you build up tolerance pretty quickly and that feeling
dissipates. At this point, I really only notice if I don't take it (as you
might with your daily cup of coffee). I honestly don't know if I continue to
get on-going benefit, but I'm don't have any side effects, it may have some
neuroprotective effects and getting off would be hard.

~~~
arcadeparade
I took Modafinil for a year after reading Gwern, 100mg twice a week on
average. It relieves a lot of anxiety for me and also acted as a great
appetite suppresant, but I also worry it has caused me some cognitive decline.
I feel like a bit of a zombie sometimes, kind of dead emotionally, not talking
as much, feeling generally dumber. Can't say for sure as I've had a lot of
stress in the last few months too, but people should be very careful with
these things.

~~~
chillingeffect
In my experiments with noots my technical cognition didn't shoot up like i was
hoping.... But my emotional intelligence did. In many cases for me, similar to
yours, I realized the smartest thing in many situations for me was simply to
keep quiet! It gave me a neutral place where I could validate peoples'
emotions or listen without saying dumb things.

------
jgalvez
No mention of methylene blue? :O It's the best one!

Below is a post I wrote on a Ray Peat Facebook group that I think fellow
coders and behind-a-desk workers might fight interesting. I've been a serious
procrastinator and slacker, and it was a long journey of trial and error in
getting diet and lifestyle right. I'm thankful to the amazing work of Dr. Ray
Peat, which isn't mentioned enough around Hacker News.

⁂

Some comments on maintaining high energy, productivity, creativity and
noticeably faster rational thinking (System 2 in the dual process theory) in
my day job as a programmer.

◈ Basics first. That is, salt, sugar, calcium, magnesium, A, D, C. If you're
lacking any of these you'll have energy problems very quickly. Buy magnesium
chloride, add eggshell powder to your mashed potatoes. Get 1g vitamin C pills.
Take 5 times as much vitamin A as you take D.

◈ Meditation daily. The main goal of daily meditation for me is to reinforce a
stoic mentality, mainly the principle of being indifferent to the external.
This is paramount in learning to deal with all kinds of stress. A simple line
of thinking that will slowly help you deal with psychological stress better.

◈ Coconut oil-fried eggs. The generally accepted notion around here is that an
extremely low fat diet is best for metabolism, i.e., oxidative metabolism is
about 15x times more efficient (paraphrasing RP). But saturated fats are
extremely good for our brains, because they are used together with cholesterol
to generate several hormones (including the wonderful progesterone and
pregnenolone). So whatever your brain condition is, if you fry 5 eggs in about
3 tbsp coconut oil, you'll equip your body with the elements it needs to
restore its full capacity.

[http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2010/12/28/high-
cholesterol...](http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2010/12/28/high-cholesterol-
and-metabolism/) [http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cholesterol-
longevity.s...](http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cholesterol-
longevity.shtml)

◈ Aspirin and K2. I was for sometime doing 4g aspirin a day, but I noticed
that much isn't necessary. Just 1-2g a day along with 1mg K2 is enough.

[http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aspirin-brain-
cancer.shtml](http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aspirin-brain-cancer.shtml)
[http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/04/22/ray-peat-phd-
on-...](http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/04/22/ray-peat-phd-on-aspirin/)

◈ Fruits, Lysine, Juices, Niacinamide, Methylene Blue, Coffee. I mention all
of these in a single sentence because I use them in sequence, hourly, to keep
a long streak of productive hours. I drink some fruit juice (orange, grape,
even serotonin-ladden pineapple) with 10gtt 2.3% methylene blue, then eat some
fruits (I keep sliced guavas and papayas in the frigde) with 100mg niacinamide
and 500mg lysine (serotonin antagonist), followed by 100ml sugared coffee.
Rinse. Repeat. I think in total I have been consuming nearly 60gtt 2.3%
methylene blue and 1.5L coffee in a stretch of programming work, all with
maximum focus, energy, no tiredness (taking very short breaks).

[https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/methylene-blue-
mb...](https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/methylene-blue-mb-is-a-
potent-aromatase-inhibitor.6736/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgeZJoir70w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgeZJoir70w)
[https://selfhacked.com/2013/08/25/methylene-blue-the-
cheapes...](https://selfhacked.com/2013/08/25/methylene-blue-the-cheapest-
cognitive-enhancer/)

Main benefit of MB is its effect as a NO and estrogen antagonist, which
improves thyroid function and overall energy levels. Stay away from fish oil,
polyunsaturated fats are extremely toxic yet you don't see it in the news --
that's because they're everywhere, it's a huge industry and it's not going to
go away easily. But PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) are the #1 source of
all kinds of metabolic disorders, including brain fog. Also avoid things that
raise serotonin -- serotonin, contrary to decades of misinformation, does not
make us happy -- its role in happines is only peripheral. High serotonin in
reality is associated with aging, depression and anger. You should aim for
high dopamine and low serotonin, in general -- that's why I take a lysine
supplement, it competes with serotonin for entry in the brain.

[https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/pufa-because-
this...](https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/pufa-because-this-wouldnt-
be-a-ray-peat-themed-blog-without-at-least-one-post-on-pufa/)
[https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/serotonin-
inflamm...](https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/serotonin-inflammation-
depression-mitochondria-energy-and-mad-love-2/)

Happy reading.

~~~
forloop
You sound like a follower of Ray Peat. He recommends MB, holds that position
on fish oil, recommends K2 as a quinone, recommends aspirin, and recommends
nicotinamide* (for the NAD+)

From what I can tell—and having experience with MB & his diet)—he's full of
shit.

* You should look into that. Nicotinamide inhibits the sirtuins. You'd probably be better off with nicotinic acid or nicotinamide riboside (NR).

~~~
jgalvez
It's VERY easy to make up your mind following a comment like "he's full of
shit", but for anyone reading, I suggest you look at at these two articles by
pranarupa:

[https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/pufa-because-
this...](https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/pufa-because-this-wouldnt-
be-a-ray-peat-themed-blog-without-at-least-one-post-on-pufa/)
[https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/serotonin-
inflamm...](https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/serotonin-inflammation-
depression-mitochondria-energy-and-mad-love-2/)

To me, Peat's notions on PUFAs and serotonin are the most important ones to
grasp.

~~~
forloop
I agree. People should make up their own minds.

When I see studies like the following (grabbed from Dr. Rhonda Patrick's
Twitter feed) it makes me question his position on fish oil.

I also found fish oil beneficial to my recovery process, after I got cognitive
problems following MB.

Studies:

* Study links omega-3s to reduced mortality[0]

* Consumption of omega-3s linked to lower risk of fatal heart disease[1]

* Lower risk of bowel cancer death linked to high omega 3 intake after diagnosis[2]

* Omega-3, omega-6 supplement improves reading for children[3]

* Stroke-like brain damage is reduced in mice injected with omega-3s

[0]
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-06/g-slo062216....](https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-06/g-slo062216.php)
[1] [https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-06/tuhs-
dco0623...](https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-06/tuhs-
dco062316.php) [2]
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160719214830.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160719214830.htm)
[3]
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160914085808.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160914085808.htm)
[4]
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160822140534.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160822140534.htm)

~~~
teslabox
I was convinced by the advocates for Omega 3's. Then my dogs destroyed my
cofffee grinder (used to make flax seed meal), I realized that I'd never
noticed a benefit, and stopped.

The modern diet is overloaded with Soybean Oil, an oil which should only be
used as biodiesel. It takes years of a low-PUFA diet to obtain all the
benefits. Some degree of temporary relief may be provided by Omega-3
supplementation, but this intervention doesn't address the cause of any
condition.

------
notapirate
Reading gwern for hours is mind numbingly amazing in and of itself.

Bonus points to anyone who knows his real name, fan club located in #gwern on
freenode especially after the darknet markets research.

Is this an alternate reality where HN is actually Slashdot circa 2008, I can't
tell right now.

~~~
DiabloD3
Honestly, I agree with the Slashdot comparison, except earlier in it's
lifetime. However, that means HN is going to fall apart in about 2 years and
turn into a toxic shithole.

Fuck.

~~~
nilved
lobste.rs

------
bemmu
I remember there was a blog post where they polled hundreds of people about
nootropics they tried and then it had a list of the ones which had the highest
self-reported subjective impact. I've been trying to find it but can't, anyone
got a link?

~~~
gary_bernhardt
You're probably thinking of Scott Alexander's nootropics survey.
[http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/03/01/2016-nootropics-
survey-...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/03/01/2016-nootropics-survey-
results/)

~~~
bemmu
That's the one, thank you.

------
pmoriarty
"Limitless" is a fun movie to watch for anyone interested in this subject.

~~~
unimpressive
There is also the even older sci fi story "Understand" by Ted Chiang.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understand_(story)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understand_\(story\))

[https://web.archive.org/web/20140527121332/http://www.infini...](https://web.archive.org/web/20140527121332/http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/under.htm)

[https://archive.org/details/TedChiangUnderstand](https://archive.org/details/TedChiangUnderstand)

~~~
pmoriarty
There's an older one than that, whose name escapes me for the moment, but it
features a man eating a sandwich that makes him smarter.

There's also the classic "Flowers for Algernon" from 1958.[1] I'd strongly
recommend reading the short story (and avoid the book, unless you want to
witness the ruining of a great story that was best left alone).

[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon)

------
voxic11
He hasn't tried Semax. I find it to be amazing for concentration and learning.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semax)

------
carbonatedmilk
My takeaway from this article: Ingesting 38 different purported nootropics may
cause you to write super long rambling blog posts and inadvisably apply
statistics to poorly designed experiments.

------
Question1101
Can you just get the nutrition supplements from the drug store or are those
all no good? I want to supplement magnesium since I am sure I am not getting
enough.

~~~
cyrusc
Yes most of these can be found in basic drug stores or health food stores,
especially magnesium supplements or natural supplements such as ashwagandha.
However, you won't find any finils or racetams except online.

------
thaw13579
I found the writing style and organization made it hard to get anything out of
this, but maybe it is just a "laboratory" notebook?

------
Angostura
My sleep problems were cured entirely by listening to BBC radio podcasts in
bed. I only ever get in about 10 minutes before I'm off.

------
hagendat
Impressive and very detailed work. Thank you

------
edem
This website is broken on my mobile (Sony Z3). I can only see a tiny column of
text on the left.

------
dharmatech
Book: "Why Isn't My Brain Working?" by Datis Kharrazian

Good introduction to general brain health.

------
dominotw
play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

------
HalfwayToDice
The best nootropic is getting a good nights sleep.

It takes effort! Preparing for bed early and disciplining yourself to put the
light out is not easy. Not nearly as easy as popping a pill. But it's so much
more effective than any drug listed here.

And for a safe and provable quick cognitive boost, take some caffeine,
preferable green tea with theanine.

~~~
mettamage
It's hard for me to fall asleep. I haven't cracked it yet how to do it
perfectly. What helps: view the problem as improving your likelihood to sleep.
Before I viewed the problem as falling asleep 100% of the time, which is a
really defeating view to have when I can't fall asleep.

Sleep tips that help me:

1\. meditation: still experimenting with body-scan vs. breath meditation, they
both help but have different effects.

2\. magnesium: makes my body more relaxed.

3\. sleeping less if needed: improves likelihood of falling asleep the next
day, it's a tricky thing to do but applied sparingly and timed right it works
really well. When I do this I prefer to sleep the 6 to 7 hour range.

4\. reduce stress: sometimes hard to do but pretty essential for me.

5\. flux.

6\. opening your window for sunlight during the day: get vitamin D first thing
in the morning.

7\. buy quality decaffeinated tea: some green tea manufacturers say it's
decaffeinated but it's not really. Or maybe it is but it still keeps me
energized and awake.

8\. no caffeine after 2: preferably not after 12, preferably not at all, use
meditation and power naps as a first line of defence, only add caffeine when
those 2 aren't enough. Preferably do the power nap + caffeine wombo combo
(takes 20 min. for caffeine to reach your brain which is also the ideal power
nap time).

I'm curious about other sleep tips that you guys have. I really want to
improve this as much as possible.

~~~
rsync
"It's hard for me to fall asleep. I haven't cracked it yet how to do it
perfectly. What helps: view the problem as improving your likelihood to sleep.
Before I viewed the problem as falling asleep 100% of the time, which is a
really defeating view to have when I can't fall asleep."

I did not respond to your sibling comment who speaks of anxiety. It sounds
like a real pathology and something I have no business generalizing about.

You, however, mention no such thing so I am emboldened to encourage you to
exercise - something not mentioned in your list.

I would experiment with _both_ walking for 2-3 hours (on a day off,
presumably) and also a 1.5 to 2 hour intense weightlifting workout (primarily
focused on your thighs/legs[1][2], since they are the biggest muscles.

I'm not saying to do these things on the same day, just that they are both
_good candidates_ for an exercise activity which could influence your ability
to go to sleep.

I like your list - especially getting out in the sun early and setting your
circadian rhythms, but your list strikes me as it would somebody putting
special air filters in their car when they've never taken it in for an oil
change. Only reach for the specialized optimizations when you've exhausted the
major factors.

[1] which implies squats and deadlifts, although a real leg press (the kind
you load with plates, not select weight from the stack) would also do the
trick.

~~~
Disruptive_Dave
> and also a 1.5 to 2 hour intense weightlifting workout (primarily focused on
> your thighs/legs[1][2], since they are the biggest muscles.

being nitpicky here but we shouldn't be promoting "time in the gym" as a
measurement of a workout's success. frankly, if you're doing an "intense"
workout for "2 hours" something's wrong.

~~~
balfirevic
"Intense" here means lifting weights close to the maximum you can lift for
certain number of repetitions. This kind of workout can easily take 1.5 to 2
hours, and IMHO qualifies as intense.

~~~
kbenson
If you are actually following set, repetition and rest period guidelines it
should probably take quite a bit less, depending on how many exercises you can
fit in. Since I never seem to be able to hit the 30 second rest period between
sets, and I can't always get to the machine I want immediately after my last
exercise because it's in use, I always seemed to average 10-15 minutes an
exercise. I haven't been to the gym in months though. :/

~~~
balfirevic
3-5 minute rest periods are not unusual at heavy weights, although I
personally try to keep it to two minutes to save time. With warm-up sets and
some waiting for equipment I often find myself spending 1.5 hours at the gym.
Super setting would help a lot but it's impractical at most gyms :(

------
yarou
As I've said in other places, the discussion of nootropics used to be a
scientific discussion of cognitive enhancers by sober, psychologically healthy
people. But as of late, it's degenerated into shady grey market talk of legal
highs, tainting the discussion.

In particular, DO NOT use phenibut for long periods of time. The withdrawal
can be potentially life-threatening, including horrible seizures that
paramedics may not even be able to deal with because it's not a traditional
GABA agonist.

Regardless of whatever huckster or snake oil salesman tries to tell you, this
is probably one of the most dangerous drugs that's marketed as a nootropic,
but is really a recreational drug.

The best nootropic stack is a good night sleep, healthy diet and exercise, and
reading a book that teaches you something new.

~~~
udkl

       and reading a book that teaches you something new.

I can attest to this. I've noticed I sleep MUCH better when I watch the next
episode of "The Mechanical Universe" on my phone in my bed right before I
sleep.

------
the_cat_kittles
personal experience with add meds and the like: there is no such thing as a
free lunch. could be different for other people, but i would always pay the
piper in the end.

------
atmosx
offtopic: Does anyone see a web add on top of the article?

I'm trying to understand if Chrome is infected. Chrome and Safari both display
the add while FF doesn't display the add.

~~~
eth0up
Just tried it in Chromium, see a "quit Smoking" ad. Nothing in FF.

~~~
atmosx
thanks, then it's not just me.

------
Herodotus38
I stopped reading after the grammar of the first two sentences. I cannot parse
the second sentence, although I think I get what they are trying to say. Fair
or not, I interpret this as a public service announcement against nootropics.

~~~
oh_sigh
Care to try to parse those sentences for us, so we can determine if it is the
reader or the writer with the grammar problem.

~~~
psyc
The problem is very long run-on sentences, with parentheticals, and awkward
word omissions.

~~~
panzagl
Seems like he's trying for that overly formal 18th/19th century style of
scientific writing.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I find my natural style tends towards such affectations. Perhaps he's just not
trying to apply a writing style after the fashion of "I could have written
less but I didn't have enough time".

