
Flying with Miniature Horses - aaronbrethorst
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/travel/mini-horse-service-plane.html
======
bradleyjg
There's a thing we do as a society which I think is unfortunate. We decide the
someone ought to get help, that part is totally reasonable. But then instead
of providing that help out of our collective resources we instead pass a law
requiring random third parties to provide it.

So in this case we decide that disabled people ought to be able to take their
assistance animals on planes. Fine. But then we the people should be paying
the airlines to carry the disabled person and their service animal without
depriving other passengers of the flight experience that they bought and paid
for. We've collectively decided to help and we should collectively bear the
cost.

~~~
cortic
Or just pass another law forbidding the 'depriving [any] passengers of the
flight experience that they bought and paid for'. I see no compelling reason
for taxes to subsidize companies just to help them follow the law, i get no
subsidies to help me not steal things or to obey traffic lights. And I'm not
posting millions in profits.

~~~
rayiner
There is a huge difference between laws that require you not to do something,
and ones that require you to spend limited resources providing affirmative
benefits to people.

~~~
matthewmacleod
No there isn’t. You can logically construct one set from the other.

If you are unable to run a business that provides equal access to the level
required by regulation, then your business is unsustainable and cannot
function. This is the same situation as running a business that cannot afford
to provide a service while meeting environmental regulations.

------
Eyes
As someone over 6ft, all I would like to know is what airline has enough
legroom for a horse to go in front of you.

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uberman
Unless I missed something, the "completely reasonable reason" appears to be
that horses live a lot longer than dogs.

~~~
tptacek
They're apparently calmer, require less social contact, and cause fewer
allergy problems, in addition to the lifespan benefit, which is considerable.
And, as the article mentions, if you need mobility/stability assistance, a
horse can be more helpful than a dog.

Really, once you learn that there people who could reasonably prefer mini-
horses to dogs, the article has answered the question it sets out to.

~~~
cujo
> cause fewer allergy problems

I have a very hard time believing that. Do you have a source? It's all
anecdotal, but the few people I know with dog allergies, seem to be very mild
cases. While horse allergies seem to be fairly common and much more severe.

~~~
jessaustin
Allergies require exposure to the allergen, and since far more people have
significant dog exposure than have significant horse exposure, dog allergies
are _much_ more common. That's why there is very little online about horse
allergies; there is also very little online about panda bear allergies.

------
jessaustin
_Airport officials will sometimes ask for Cali’s official “horse ID,” Ms.
Ramouni said. Unaware of any organization that offers such a thing, she and a
friend eventually made a card themselves._

OK, that's awesome. We should all make our own ID cards.

 _Cali is used to going for long stretches without urinating..._

This is typical of horses, especially females like this one featured in TFA.
They like to really stretch out their legs while urinating (I guess they don't
like splashes?) and are only comfortable doing so in particular situations.
Whereas they will defecate anywhere, so it's impressive that this animal has
been trained not to do that.

~~~
scotty79
> OK, that's awesome. We should all make our own ID cards.

If you are asking for ID even though you don't know what ID should be provided
or even if any is required then FU, you get the one written in crayons.

~~~
ebg13
Someone I know relayed a story to me once wherein, at the passport gate into
England she, a Canadian citizen, was held up by the passport control agent for
not having a visa document. "Where's your visa?" "I don't need a visa, I'm a
Canadian citizen. Your queen is my queen." "So you don't have one?" "Yes,
because I don't need one."

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IIAOPSW
Fun fact: there is exactly one situation in the United States in which you are
required to fly with non-TSA approved locks on your luggage. That situation is
when there's a gun in your checked in bags. The easiest way to meet that
requirement is with a flare gun. Some perfectly reasonable people that are
concerned about theft and privacy will travel with a flare gun for no reason
other than it lets them lock their luggage.

The rules around flying are weird and full of perverse incentives that are
easily hacked.

~~~
neilv
Flying with a declared flare gun in your checked baggage photography gear
cases was a trick I heard some professional photographers use.

Reportedly, that activates some chain of custody-like procedures, including
that it's unlikely to be lost, and that the case isn't opened at potentially
arbitrary points of time by unknown workers in between (damage, theft).

~~~
i_am_proteus
Can confirm that this works with a real firearm. You need to put _non-TSA_
locks on the case, and it's kept in custody of the airline at baggage claim
(does not go on the carousel). You must provide ID to retrieve the case.

I use a cheap 1911 frame. This is a 48.5-state solution; don't try it in
Illinois or NYC.

~~~
asmithmd1
Do NOT fly into Massachusetts with a gun. To have a gun in MA you must have a
MA gun license

~~~
romaaeterna
Mass non-residents don't need the license as long as it's unloaded and in a
case.

[https://www.mass.gov/info-details/gun-ownership-in-
massachus...](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/gun-ownership-in-
massachusetts#non-residents-)

~~~
asmithmd1
IANAL but you should read the actual law, not a summary even when it is from
the state:

[https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Cha...](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131G)

I am a Mass resident and know not to mess with Mass gun laws - they carry a
minimum of 2 1/2 years in jail.

Total coincidence - MA has the lowest gun death rate at <1/3 the national
average and <1/6 some of the most dangerous states:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state)

~~~
romaaeterna
Yours is the wrong citation. See my other post for the correct exemption.

Boston is your big city, right? It had 56 people murdered in 2018. Here are
their pictures. [https://www.universalhub.com/2018/boston-
murders-2018](https://www.universalhub.com/2018/boston-murders-2018)

As near as I can tell from the available pictures, the victims are largely or
entirely black. They make up 23% of the city, according to wikipedia, or
159,754 people. So that is about 35 black victims per 100,000 black residents.

In 2018, Chicago is about 40 black victims per 100,000 black residents.

This is comparable to black victim rates elsewhere. I don't think that your
gun rates are helping so much as the fact that you are a mostly white state
without many urban centers.

~~~
i_am_proteus
Thank you for sharing this.

Seeing the faces of the victims really hammers home the reality of murder in
the United States: something that's much worse for black men (and the black
community) than it is for everyone else.

------
u801e
How do airlines accommodate passengers who have allergies to these animals? Do
they let them know before the board that there will be an animal they're
allergic to on board? Do they have to wait for the next flight, or does the
passenger with the animal have to wait?

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hn_throwaway_99
This may sound dickish, but as someone who always has to pay extra for more
legroom because the length of my thighs is longer than the standard seat
pitch, when is being tall going to be declared a disability?

~~~
liability
I'm pretty average height so I can't personally relate to this experience, but
it does logically seem like you have a point. After all, it's not your fault
you're so lanky; you were born that way (well.. you know what I mean.) Isn't
that equally deserving of accommodation?

I wish whoever downvoted you could explain themselves to help me understand
why they think tall people shouldn't be reasonably accommodated.

~~~
bradleyjg
(1) Disability

The term "disability" means, with respect to an individual

(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more
major life activities of such individual;

...

(2) Major Life Activities

(A) In general

For purposes of paragraph (1), major life activities include, but are not
limited to, caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing,
eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing,
learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working.

~~~
liability
Okay, but why are tall people not also deserving of accommodation? That's the
part I'm curious about.

~~~
bradleyjg
Disability law gives people that have been dealt a strictly shit hand by life
--like eyes or legs that don't work--a bit of a less shitty day to day life.

Are all the people endlessly whining about airplane seats really going to make
the case that being tall is a strictly shit hand in life? Given all the data
about better pay and relationship outcomes and everything else? It's an
obnoxious and the posters deserve all the downvotes they get.

~~~
liability
If eating to the point of obesity and losing a foot to diabetes is worth
accommodating, I don't see why having exceptionally awkwardly long legs
shouldn't be accommodated either. In either case it's an unusual physical
attribute that causes trouble for the afflicted, but in the later case the
afflicted has no blame.

It shouldn't matter if you think tall people are lucky for being tall, or
whatevver your hangup is. All that should matter is if their physical
condition is causing them trouble.

------
kqr2
More info on guide horses, including advantages:

[http://guide-horse.org/](http://guide-horse.org/)

------
whalesalad
Flying with 2 dogs in the same row in a few weeks for the first time and I
know I am going to get some stern looks from others on the plane. They have
their ESA documentation and everything is set to go, we're in first class at
the bulkhead (yay points), and they are extremely well behaved.

I cannot even fathom trying to get a horse onto a plane since I am already
playing mental gymnastics with my two dogs.

~~~
watertom
How do you honestly function day to day if you need to have two dogs with you
at all times? Do you work from home? How can you drive without being an
emotional wreck?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I see your post and it causes my brain to
short circuit. I don't want you confined to your house, but if you are so
fragile psychological and emotionally that you can't function for a few hours
without your two dogs at your side should you really be flying?

~~~
objectivetruth
I'm not the parent, and I'm guilty of being exasperated at people calling
their purse dogs "support animals" to get them on planes, BUT...

1) The obvious answer to your first questions: lots of people do work from
home, and/or work in dog-friendly locations. Also, lots of people take their
dog with them on all car trips including local errands.

2) Re: "can't function for a few hours without your two dogs" \-- the FLIGHT
is a few hours but unless the dogs are beaming there via transporter, they
still need the dogs at the destination!

~~~
detaro
Re 2, most airlines are completely fine with transporting your dogs, service
animal or not. In a crate.

~~~
humanrebar
Not all are competent enough to get them there alive.

~~~
jessaustin
This sort of comment does no favors to the people who rely on ESAs. Of course
every airline is completely competent at the mundane task of keeping living
things alive. In fact air travel is safer than certain other forms of travel.

------
dboreham
Did the NYT acquire The Onion?

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cscurmudgeon
Nice to see NYT engaging in clickbait headlines.

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coldcode
I cannot even sit in a normal plane due to my height, and yet people fly with
a horse???? I really want to find some way to fly with a Pygmy Hippo. Or how
about a friendly Caiman?

~~~
TylerE
RTFA

These are no bigger than a medium size dog.

~~~
mkl
These look a lot bigger than a medium sized dog. Their bodies seem way
bulkier. I'm only slightly taller than average, but couldn't fit a chihuahua
in front of my knees in a plane, let alone a medium sized dog or miniature
horse.

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tedunangst
Did the article ask and then mostly dodge the question, How do you fit a horse
in front of your seat?

~~~
reaperducer
_Did the article ask and then mostly dodge the question, How do you fit a
horse in front of your seat?_

It didn't dodge the question at all. There's a photo, and the article talks
about the photo extensively.

"Airlines that have engaged with miniature horses before typically put Ms.
Ramouni and Cali in the bulkhead row, which has more legroom and no seats in
front. Throughout the flight Cali stands at Ms. Ramouni’s feet."

~~~
tedunangst
But if that's not available? (Typically? What happens atypically?) The
paragraphs after that question seemed to be mostly about making sure the horse
didn't pee on anybody, not how it physically fit. Also, it looked like the
horse is longer than a single seat wide. Does she always travel with a
companion?

Unfortunately the times seems to have decided I'm only allowed to read this
article once and now it won't load.

