
Nike’s auto-laced future - Rifu
https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/17/nikes-auto-laced-future/
======
sdrothrock
It's interesting to me that this gets lampooned, but the autolacing shoes in
Back to the Future[1] (and the release of actual shoes a few years back[2])
was greeted with awe and cheers. Different crowds, maybe?

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Wa5L-fkkM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Wa5L-fkkM)

[2] [https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/05/nike-mag-first-
look/](https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/05/nike-mag-first-look/)

~~~
TeMPOraL
Autolacing in Back to the Future didn't require you to download vendor's app
and connect to an account on vendor's service over the Internet.

That would be my one and only criticism of this implementation. Beyond that,
it's pure awesomeness, and I want a pair.

~~~
Xylakant
These shoes don’t either. They can be operated manually, as the article
states. They have a built-in Sensor and auto-lace when you put them on. You
just cannot have some of the nice things that the app brings: multiple
different profiles, ...

~~~
Sir_Substance
If the article is accurate, the first time you use them you /must/ use the app
to configure them and /must/ log into your flipping _shoe account_ of all
things to do so.

An engineer that didn't have a marketing department breathing down his back to
drive "engagement" would just have the LEDs on the side also be buttons and
tell the user to hold them for 10 seconds to put them in a configuration mode,
but hey, if they did that nike couldn't force you to give up your email to use
your shoes and then use it to send you spam...

~~~
emdowling
If you don’t like it, buy another pair of shoes! There are literally thousands
of alternatives out there. No one is forcing you to buy this pair.

~~~
icebraining
If you don't like Sir_Substance's comment, read another! There are literally
thousands of alternative comments out there.

~~~
stinos
Difference being there really are literelly thousands of alternative comments,
whereas there are definitely not thousands of alternative electronic
autolacing systems :)

------
Lazare
Interesting topic. Like a lot of things, it's easy and enjoyable to unload
some quick snark on Twitter, and certainly anything even _related_ to IoT is a
worthy target of all the snark we can muster 99.9% of the time.

On the other hand, the article points out that pro athletes have different
needs than others, and these shoes (arguably!) address those needs in ways
that other options do not. Also, the implementation isn't as dumb as the
cynical might have assumed.

~~~
thatoneuser
People wanna feel smart. That's all this really is. Sneakers intimidate
people's intelligence, hello 2019

------
jessriedel
Many modern snowboard boots have a pretty impressive ratchet system with steel
laces that allows me to get a very tight fit easily (no yanking on laces
required), with instant push-button release.

[https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/mens-burton-photon-boa-
snowbo...](https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/mens-burton-photon-boa-snowboard-
boot/W19-150861.html)

It's unclear to me whether basketball shoes lack this system for good
ergonomic/structural reasons or because of marketing/style/tradition.

~~~
Marsymars
There exist plenty of non-snowboard boots with the Boa system. For instance,
Boa's running shoe category:
[https://www.boafit.com/category/run](https://www.boafit.com/category/run)

I've had some Boa snowboard boots, and they've been good, but I've
transitioned to non-ratcheting/non-metal quicklace systems. I find them
somewhat more durable and easier to make fine adjustments to, while being
nearly as quick/easy to use.

~~~
stinos
_easier to make fine adjustments to_

Experienced the same. Boa is pretty good, but it seems to tighten almost
uniformly along the length of the cable. Which is probably ideal if your boot
has a perfect fit to your foot, but otherwise becomes a pain in the, eh, foot.
I have problems with pressure on the top of my feet and with the boa system it
seems there's either too much pressure there or not tight enough around the
legs. Might be resolved by finding _the_ proper fit but laces are really more
forgiving when it comes to that.

~~~
dubyah
Many of the newer or at least better lacing systems for snowboard boots use
separate controls for foot & leg or liner & shell.

Tongue shims on your liners might help. A replacement heat molded liner is
another option.

------
tomcam
For me it's not overkill at all. It makes perfect sense on the safety/medical
benefits alone. I walk two hours a day. In my prime I ran 5 miles or more/day
and biked three times that. My feet pronate and I have to wear orthotic
insoles.

For whatever reason I've never been able to keep my shoes stable. They either
start too tight and have to be adjusted or are a little too lose, thus
reducing ankle stability. I would welcome these on strictly utilitarian
benefits. Since I spend $300 every six months on shoes that don't wreck what's
left of my fallen arches, this would be a lateral move financially anyway, I
suspect.

~~~
User23
There's a lot to be said for having a cobbler make custom shoes for you, if
one is available.

Also, your mileage may vary, but my ankle instability was greatly improved by
a basic "Starting Strength" style workout routine. I went from tripping over
my own wobbly feet to lifting 300+ lbs on my back in just over a year. I've
never had any notable ankle instability since.

~~~
tomcam
Wow, thanks tons. Your story is an inspiration.

~~~
User23
I should add that I had a great coach. Anyone that wants to start barbell
lifting should find a coach for at least the first few months.

------
mpolichette
Put it in ski boots... done and done, I’d buy it right away

~~~
arethuza
Mountain walking/climbing boots as well - adjusting laces in bad weather if
you have gaiters, over-trousers and crampons on can be a nightmare.

Mind you they'd have to have a reliable fall-back so they still work and are
adjustable if (when) the power fails.

Edit: I was actually thinking last weekend when I think I over tightened my
laces on my boots and my feet got quite sore that strain gauges in boots/laces
might be a good thing!

~~~
dogma1138
Replace the laces with 2-4mm bungee cord and you are set for life.

That was a pretty common trick for combat boots before the laced + side zipper
boots became more popular.

~~~
jschwartzi
What's the steepest decline you've walked with that setup? Did your toes touch
the end of your boot?

~~~
dogma1138
Pretty steep, including wall climbing but those were full height boots not the
ankle height popular with most hikers.

You don't tie as you would normal laces you create a knot on one end and loop
it through all the lace loops then you simply pull and loop it around the
shaft and the colar and tuck it in it was secure enough to even run in (as
much as can one run with a full kit and a PRC-77 they had us chugging along
during training) and traverse any terrain I had too.

I don't know how would if fare in very cold (as in sub zero) weather but then
I had normal laces snap on me while trekking in Peru and Iceland as well.

BTW don't forget that while a bungee cord can stretch pretty well the shorter
it is the more stiff it is so all of the bends in the loop essentially create
a lot of short individual links that don't stretch as easily as the entire
length of the cord unwound, you also need to overcome the friction between the
cord and the tongue of the boot which makes this setup pretty darn secure but
easy enough to pop on and off if your curl your foot and ankle and ease it in
or out.

~~~
jschwartzi
I'm going to try this with mountaineering boots. Thanks!

------
tempestn
> Nike rival Adidas is pursuing the goal in a different way, using interwoven
> textiles and self-tightening weaves in its _N3XT L3V3L_ basketball shoe.

Emphasis mine. People scoff at a phone-connected shoe (which actually sounds
pretty useful for the pro basketball application as described), but I think we
can all agree this is worse.

~~~
pferde
1 d0n'7 kn0w wh47 y0u'r3 741k1n9 480u7.

------
scottlocklin
When I was a kid I expected us to have controlled fusion power plants,
hovercraft and Gerald O'Neal space colonies by now.

Instead we have soylent, a nightmare corporate-government surveillance
dystopia and ... plastic moccasins, and I'm supposed to be impressed.

~~~
aboutruby
Did you expect to have most of the information in the world available on
demand? Anywhere? And be able to communicate with anybody anywhere? I guess
it's hard predicting the future
[http://www.paulgraham.com/ecw.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/ecw.html)

~~~
scottlocklin
I definitely expected to be able to talk to a computer like in star trek and
have it synthesize me an answer, yes.

I didn't anticipate it would be delivered using a markup language via a
centralized solution, nor that it would be cluttered up with ads and
irrelevant marketing bilge or press releases in nonsense like modern online
magazines.

------
jamilbk
When a shoe becomes untied, will it auto-lace as I’m walking?

And why stop at shoes? Bring on the auto-lacing corsets, self-buttoning
shirts, and auto-adjusting belts (useful for large meals).

~~~
leowoo91
I think one of the things make a suit 'prestigious' is that it requires effort
and time.

~~~
vezycash
Jackie Chan's suit in Tuxedo looked prestigious enough.

------
jzwinck
I'm surprised a sport like basketball would allow players to wear apparel
which improves their performance using electronics and a motor.

~~~
droopyEyelids
My read was that it'll improve safety and recovery more than enhance
performance.

~~~
kingosticks
Coming from someone who doesn't watch any basketball, are there many incidents
involving shoes coming off or becoming loose? Is the safety argument real?

~~~
vinay427
This is addressed somewhat in the article:

> Players, for example, will tell you that after about a half hour on the
> court, their feet will swell, sometimes up to a half size. This changes
> their comfort level significantly. So they have a choice: either play with
> their shoes too loose for 30 minutes or tighten them enough to be painful by
> halftime. Not with an adjustable shoe.

~~~
PakG1
Why not just retie the shoelaces at halftime?

~~~
tempestn
They probably do, but they're already painful by then.

------
hooloovoo_zoo
Would a player trip if their shoe was hacked to suddenly release tension?

~~~
choward
That's impossible according to this naive part of the article.

> When you pair, you’re linking your shoes directly to your Nike+ account, so
> there is no chance of anyone either connecting to or controlling your shoes

------
Invictus0
Autolacing is a fundamentally bad idea. It means that each step will be
weighed down by a motor, battery, and radio that are used only for a second
when you put on the shoe. It's like everyone forgot that Nike has been
marketing lighter shoes since their inception.

~~~
foreigner
This was my first thought as well. How is it the article doesn't mention
weight at all? Still I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to move the weight out
of the shoe. The shoe could expose a cord that you hook in to a separate
machine to provide the force for tightening.

~~~
jarvuschris
That loses one of the big benefit though: being able to take breaks from the
tight lace and restore it easily on the go

I can't imagine the weight couldn't be cut down to the same order of magnitude
you're looking at for a shoe with strong support anyway.

~~~
foreigner
The application here is professional sports. In that context every tiny bit of
weight matters. And they're not really "on the go" \- they could just keep the
machine on the sidelines.

------
maaaats
This lacingpattern looks like the same used on bicycle shoes for some years.
For an example see "shimano rc9". Not adjusted by a motor, though.

Think it's called Boa lacing.

------
forkLding
I'm interested in buying these shoes as a consumer, auto-lacing actually seems
like a wonderful app even though it does sound like overkill

------
Wowfunhappy
I'm kind of disappointed you need to charge these. I was hoping the battery
could charge itself via energy generated while walking, like those light up
shoes children wear. Would that not have been practical?

~~~
ansible
That sort of charging system as weight and complexity. And it's it fails, the
shoe doesn't work.

If a kid's shoes don't light up, they still function as shoes.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
I suppose it all depends on how much weight and complexity. To me, the need to
remember to charge my shoes makes the whole thing a nonstarter.

------
ykevinator
This is comfort tech designed to pull dollars from the poorest among us.

------
jarvuschris
This would be awesome for casual runners too, not just pro/semi-pro basketball
players.

If you're doing distance training good and consistent lacing can be essential
to your health

~~~
gnarcoregrizz
You want running shoes to be as light as possible. The book the sports gene
went over how slender ankles (less weight on the feet) is a significant factor
in running performance and potential. I don't think adding a motor and
batteries to a runner's shoes will help them, unless they're looking to get
more of a workout over the same period of time.

------
wumms
> One of the most exciting ancillary effects of a self-lacing shoe is
> assistance that it can give people with fine motor skills or mobility
> issues.

That's good.

------
ksec
May be in a few years time I will start something call Analog. Which is to
sell anything that isn't Digital. Seriously I think the world is getting a
little.... too digital in everything. ( I know this may be unpopular on HN )

I want to simplified the tightening lace, but it doesn't have to be auto. May
be in a Pull Lever like mechanics.

When will someday people gets to hack the system and tightening up your lace
just for fun? Would I have to update my shoes firmware as well. Or many of the
Internet of Things we are going to have in the next 10 years.

~~~
pferde
The system used on Salomon running shoes is rather good - ever since I tried
it, I feel like the traditional shoe laces are cumbersome.
[https://www.salomon.com/en-us/blog/how-to-use-the-salomon-
qu...](https://www.salomon.com/en-us/blog/how-to-use-the-salomon-quicklace-
system)

------
theNJR
I sort of want a pair of these.

------
PudgePacket
If you lose wifi will you be unable to take your shoe off ?

~~~
Lazare
1) They use bluetooth, not wifi.

2) They're actually designed to work in situations where you don't even _have_
your phone as a primary use case.

So no, of course not. That was actually a major point made early on in the
article. If you'd even skimmed the article, you'd have seen the answer to your
question. :)

~~~
pferde
The worrying thing is that this is even a question.

------
stuartw1
Next disruption:

All new shoes come with 30 days free lacing on creation of an account. Lacing
feature billed at $9.99 monthly unless cancelled. Model specific variable
tightness DLC pack not included.

Wearing this shoe constitutes consent to our data sharing and privacy policy
and acceptance of binding arbitration agreement.

~~~
alexis_fr
and we may revoke you right to wear shoes if you get upset with what your wife
asks you to do, as per our no-bullying policy.

