
CEO of Marriott Statements About Hotel Fees Customers Loathe - walterbell
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/the-ceo-of-marriott-just-made-some-stunning-statements-about-hotel-fees-customers-loathe.html
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Someone1234
The CEO is also ignoring that a lot of the original hotels to impose "resort
fees" were also actual resorts. Offering a diverse range of services.

Whereas there are Marriott hotels that offer no services at all and still have
the gall to charge a resort fee. I'm talking inner-city hotels with no pool,
no gym, paid internet, and a fee for printing/faxing.

It might sound melodramatic but it should actually be illegal. If the fee
isn't optional it should be part of the price (ditto for "fees" on
Cable/Internet/Cellphone providers).

~~~
jjeaff
Agreed. And I really feel like it is already legal, it just hasn't been
litigated by the right people yet.

False advertising / bait and switch are illegal.

It's one thing to advertise a certain price, then have an optional upcharge
for additional services. It's false advertising to advertise one price and
then charge the customer something else.

Imagine if a store had candy bars for a dollar, but then charged a "candy
convenience fee" of $5 upon checkout. (government fees like bottle fees are
acceptable imo).

Uber Eats and most of the food delivery services are guilty of this as well.
They will advertise a low fee for delivery. Then when you checkout, you see
the advertised delivery fee, then an additional "service fee" that can be 2 to
3 times the delivery fee.

I have even noticed the service fee being higher on deliveries that they are
offering "free delivery" for. I can't believe that isn't false advertising.
Where is the ftc?

~~~
orev
A bottle recycling “fee” is actually a deposit, because you’re expected to get
it back upon return. A “fee” is something you don’t get back.

~~~
NedIsakoff
Depending on where you live. I live in Canada and my region you don’t get all
your deposit back.

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FabHK
Then it's not a deposit.

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NedIsakoff
The government calls it a deposit. The law that collects it and refunds it
refers to it as a deposit. The charge on my receipt says deposit. The refund I
get back is called deposit refund.

Except when I buy a can of Cola I pay 10 cents deposit. When I return it I get
5 cents deposit refund.

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bradleyjg
The argument is disingenuous. No one is complaining about hotels rolling the
paddle boat rental into the room cost. If Marriott wants to move to a more
inclusive model, that’s perfectly fine. The issue is that if it’s a mandatory
part of the cost then it should be a part of the main advertised price.

It’s in my opinion unfortunate that tax is listed separately in a lot of
places but at this point that’s water under the bridge. But for money that’s
going directly to the vendor (also looking at you telecoms) it’s inexcusable.

~~~
kd5bjo
“Free nights” from rewards programs also sometimes require the payment of the
resort fee, even when some of the items included in that fee (like internet
access) are also included in your status level.

~~~
imroot
Most of the terms and conditions of the various reward programs out there
(Hilton included -- I'm a Hilton Lifetime Diamond) specifically exclude resort
wifi from their "benefits."

~~~
pureagave
I'm thankful that Hyatt isn't like that. Wifi and all the benefits of status
in their program persist even on award nights. In fact, they wave the "resort
fees" for all stays if you are their top tier. So at least they don't anger
their best customers with this.

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erentz
We have this new trend over the past couple of years in Seattle restaurants to
charge a flat 20% “service fee”. The fine print says “service fee” actually
goes to business, not the staff. But the claim is they pay the staff a proper
wage (and provide 401ks, etc.). Which sounds good to me, how it should be
everywhere. But in that case they should just increase the prices 20% and
remove the tipping option. This middle of the road thing labeled a “service
fee” feels like a trick.

~~~
darkpuma
How are you going to "remove the tipping option"? Are you going to chase me
down the sidewalk to return the cash I leave on the table for your employee?
You'll look awfully foolish doing that, and I don't think your employee will
thank you.

~~~
erentz
Tips are still accepted at these restaurants but they note that they’re not
expected or required because there’s an automatic “service fee”.

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twic
Fees like this are illegal in the UK. Which hasn't stopped some American hotel
operator trying to charge them anyway:

[https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-
advice/donald-...](https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-
advice/donald-trump-turnberry-hotel-resort-fee-nightly-charge-
golf-a8269836.html)

I don't think this chain is very big, so hopefully this guy's crooked
practices won't affect too many people!

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cmurf
Either he's ignorant, or he thinks the target audience are morons. Either way,
it's not good, but I think the second possibility would make him a
bullshitter, and that should not be allowed to go unanswered in civil
discourse.

The reason I say that is because the metaphor does not work. There are in fact
airlines who do not charge baggage fees, there are in fact travelers who don't
take baggage. In the case where there's a baggage fee and a traveler with
baggage, paying the fee means you get to take your bag. You do get something
for the fee, even if you don't like that the airline charges extra for it.

Meanwhile, you get nothing for a resort free. If you refuse to pay, you're
refusing the entire transaction. If this CEO is broadcasting bullshit, then
he's a bullshitter. It'd be better if he's just ignorant about what he's
saying, everyone's an idiot about something or other. But to be a bullshitter?
That's bad for the brand to hire. Makes it stink. And I don't care to stay at
a Marriott as much as I did before reading this.

~~~
zaroth
> _Either he 's ignorant, or he thinks the target audience are morons._

He’s the CEO of a company for which this policy results in probably hundreds
of millions of dollars in profit. He’s doing what he can to defend the golden
goose.

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libria
Another big one is the "Surprise! Valet-only + parking garage" fees.

 _shrug_ The whole shady passing-fees-to-willing-consumers thing is just
business. I can appreciate T-Mobile creating their identity about not doing
this (final price, taxes and fees included). All the other hotels do it too.
Restaurants use tipping, etc.

With the Age of the Internet has come greater visibility and accountability.
Twitter-like outbursts can go viral creating damaging PR. I can see society
slowly moving towards consumer friendly practices and upfront total costs.
We'll get there.

~~~
deogeo
> The whole shady passing-fees-to-willing-consumers thing is just business.

Advertising one price and charging another looks like textbook fraud to me...

Edit: I guess we could take free market ideas to their limit, and allow
companies to differentiate themselves on whether they conduct fraud and other
crimes as well.

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dlgeek
I'm actually really surprised these have made an in-road at business focused
hotels (which they have). Working at a large company, we have to book through
a corporate travel agency that enforces all sorts of travel policies,
negotiated rates, etc. on the booking. Yet, I've occasionally seen resort fees
even then. You'd think that the travel agency and policies would wise up and
include that in the calculation.

~~~
sologoub
Stayed in a Marriott last year on business and was really blindsided that
they’d take this tactic and not get blacklisted with the companies.

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greatpatton
Why don’t people fight back through review website (tripadvisor, booking,
hotels.com, etc.) by giving only 1* to hotel using this kind of scam? Online
reputation is critical in the hospitality business (when not completely
rigged)

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schappim
I experience the same contempt I feel for hotel fees when getting slammed with
various sales taxes (only at checkout) when travelling around the US.

In my home country of Australia, retailers are required to advertise (to
consumers) with all taxes/fees included.

~~~
rahimnathwani
Right, but then the government gets away with hiding taxes. VAT and sales
taxes are generally taxes on the end consumer, so it stands to reason that the
end consumer (who probably votes in elections) should know when they're paying
these taxes.

Would you prefer it if income taxes were similarly hidden (i.e. when you
negotiate your salary, you're negotiating the net amount you will receive
after taxes)?

~~~
qu4z-2
Honestly, yes. That would be pretty useful for budgeting.

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nlh
If these fees are so consumer-unfriendly (I agree they are deceptive!),
instead of getting angry at the chains, why don’t the major aggregators
(Expedia, HotelTonight) just decide to roll resort fees into the displayed
nightly rates?

~~~
osolo
Imagine you're Expedia, and you want to make this consumer friendly change.

Now, on your website, all the hotels seem to be more expensive.

Nobody will understand the intricacies of why, and they'll simply book
somewhere else where hotels are "cheaper".

We need regulation so these fees appear industry-wide.

~~~
jankassens
An aggregator could offer a checkbox to include fees or make users otherwise
aware of that fact. Would definitely differentiate that aggregator for me!

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dhd415
I recently stayed at boutique hotel in Boston, the Hotel Commonwealth, that
pulled the same thing on me -- a per-night "destination charge" that included
a bunch of things I didn't use except for in-room wifi which was advertised as
included. I left them a scathing review and won't go back. I hope that enough
people voting with their wallets will change this, but I'm not optimistic.

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technofiend
I don't know if they _originated_ in Las Vegas but Vegas heartily adopted
resort fees a decade ago and now the maximums are nearing $40/night. Frommer's
travel guide aggregates the information [1] so tourists can make an informed
decision about total cost.

Although a clearly critical article [2] suggests the fees are to blame for
lower attendance in Vegas, the Review Journal article they cite [3] has a much
more balanced view and suggests other contributing factors such as unfavorable
exchange rates and twelve states recently legalizing gambling. Regardless, the
RJ article still mentions "MGM Resorts CEO Jim Murren told Wall Street
analysts during the company’s earnings call on Aug. 2 that his company was
forced to cut Las Vegas hotel room prices during the second and third quarters
to draw leisure travelers because conventions didn’t fill enough rooms."

I can only speak for myself but I stopped going to Vegas a decade ago as I'm
not really the target audience; except for poker I don't gamble. From my
perspective you can only see so many Cirque Du Soleil shows and I've done all
the touristy stuff around like hiking the canyons, visiting their museums and
seeing the Grand Canyon. Vegas has some great food and I wouldn't mind
dropping in to Lotus of Siam to see if they're still good or even Baby Stacks
for some adobe rice but otherwise I don't miss the place. These days it's
cheaper and more convenient to spend a weekend in New Orleans. Those resort
fees will easily pay for or at least heavily subsidize a nice meal in New
Orleans.

[1] [https://www.frommers.com/tips/hotel-news/all-the-las-
vegas-h...](https://www.frommers.com/tips/hotel-news/all-the-las-vegas-hotels-
resort-feesso-youll-know-the-actual-price-of-a-stay)

[2] [https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2019/04/03/las-
vega...](https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2019/04/03/las-vegas-hotels-
discover-fraudulent-resort-fees-are-hurting-their-business/)

[3] [https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-
gaming/some-l...](https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/some-
las-vegas-resorts-cutting-fees-as-visitation-
declines-1624228/?fbclid=IwAR0G9xNirIPocjobNHVvUUkvgpssJZVFjcbAuY4qFUfmonTakd3nNJ_1ejQ)

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chaseha
I was linked to this consumer advocacy website earlier today around a
different matter (to do w/ airlines), but I think they put this well as part
of their values page [https://www.elliott.org/our-
values/](https://www.elliott.org/our-values/)

    
    
       promotes honesty, fairness and respect between companies and customers.
      ...
      For companies - Honesty means that the price a company displays should be the price its customers pay — no tricks. Customers have the right to know what’s included — and not included — when an offer is initially made.
      ... (under 'Our causes')
      Killing junk fees. Whether it’s a mysterious “access” fee on your cell phone bill or a “convenience” fee on your ticket, we stand opposed to meaningless junk fees that line the pockets of companies.

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esotericn
I don't stay in hotels. Is this an issue of pull vs. push pricing?

I rented a van just now. Hidden somewhere was a 1p per mile AdBlue charge.

I don't want to pay that. It was not quoted to me originally.

If I were paying in cash I could just not pay it and it'd be their move.

Credit cards and the associated bureaucracy make that way more hassle than
it's worth.

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hamilyon2
There is a simple and clear statement in Russian law about exactly this
situation. Article 1102 of civil code "unlawful enrichment".

It they insist or somehow twist your arms, it is article 16 of consumer code
"invalidity of contract terms that infringe the rights of the consumer". I am
sorry don't you have some kind of parallel law in your country?

It, very very simply, states "you absolutely can choose what to buy and what
not to buy from seller and if somehow you can not, seller pays you
difference".

~~~
tgsovlerkhgsel
> I am sorry don't you have some kind of parallel law in your country

The fact that they're getting prosecuted for it indicates that the law exists,
it was just extremely poorly/slowly enforced.

~~~
cannonedhamster
It's a combination of regulatory capture and the intentionally making these
organizations toothless by Republicans as part of their pro-business,
regulation budgeting platform. What they claimed would happen is that
businesses would lower prices, and if you look at advertised prices they
probably claim a win, it's all the hidden prices that are a problem and those
fall under regulatory groups that are underfunded or run by people who
disagree with their intended mandate, for example Scott Pruitt being put in
charge of the EPA, or John Bolton in any organization that deals in diplomacy.

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imroot
Remember, both Hilton and Marriott do not own any hotels these days.

Their entire mission in life is to build a set of brand standards that their
hotel franchises use, and then ensure that the owners of those franchises can
obtain maximum profit from the Marriott and Hilton customer base. Resort fees
are just another...step down that road.

~~~
walterbell
Which chains own their hotels?

~~~
imroot
21C hotels own all of their hotels. That's the only one that I know of right
now, but, I don't follow that much of the travel industry -- only the hotels
that I stay in are the ones that I really look at.

