

Ask HN: Is a hacker by nature pre-disposed towards Objectivism? - Allocator2008

I really am not trying to start a "fire fight" over Objectivism, but it occurs to me the individualist nature of the prototypical "hacker" is consistent with the values of Objectivism - self-reliance, work for one's own rational self-interest, don't "conform", etc.<p>(Full disclosure: I am a member of the Objectivist Party - http://www.objectivistparty.org)<p>Both from a personality standpoint of "individualism" and from a more general logical thinking/epistemological standpoint ("A is A") it seems to me that Objectivist values and beliefs are Hacker values and beliefs, or, at least, a "hacker" is statistically more likely than the average person to gravitate towards objectivism.
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noonespecial
Hackers tend to gravitate _away_ from labels like objectivism. Once one
subscribes to a label, it invites toeing the party line and switching off the
brain. Hackers are even nervous, it seems, about accepting the label "hacker".

Rand, like Marx presented a cartoonish, plastic version of reality that seems
compelling at first but when considered carefully fails the test of being
practical (or possible) to implement. After you get some distance you start to
see the bits of reality that have been fictionalized and over-emphasized. Like
using a parametric EQ on your favorite song to learn the bass line.

Hackers will generally accept people of any political makeup so long as their
reasoning is clear and systematic and their initial assumptions are
reasonable. They won't accept beliefs based on dogma, anecdotes, or
superstition. This is why the hacker community tends to be so diverse yet
seems to have so much cohesion. (So much, in fact, that the near total lack of
venomous idealogical bickering might fool the uninitiated into thinking
everyone must just believe the same as them.)

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SwellJoe
Possibly, but most of us grow out of it by the time we reach our mid-twenties.

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fsckMS
Some parallels, Major differences. the Hacker mentality is something Ayn Rand
would have never considered as incorruptible. Her view on white hats was never
discussed even though she was around through it's birth and maturity. One of
the great reinventions of the hacker community is 'you mess with me, me and my
friends will screw you tenfold'. Selfgoverning society was often taken to it's
basic animalistic extreme in Ayn Rand's perspectives, seeing it first hand
would skew anyones faith in humanity. Hackers are more like mathematicians in
not really caring about real-world applications of the knowledge sought, they
are in it for the knowledge for knowledge sake.

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noodle
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this at least a little bit of an oxymoron?
doesn't rational selfishness and/or moral egoism preclude the notion of having
a job that is to serve others, i.e., run for or hold governmental office? or
at the very least ensure a government corrupt on some level?

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alnayyir
>Is a Hacker by nature pre-disposed towards Objectivism?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No, because it involves working with a closed-system that depends
on taking a number of premises for granted.

A hacker by nature wouldn't constrain themselves to the limitations and
premises that an outsider presents to them.

The Randian abuse of rudimentary logic (A is A) and pretension to being
holders of the one-true-faith has worn on my patience over time.

This is it. This is where I draw the line. You people have invaded every
intellectual space that you have no place in nor any relevancy to. Now you
come here, my sanctuary where there is nothing here of any relevance to
Objectivism.

Take your (albeit pseudo-godless) cult of personality elsewhere. Hackers
aren't interested.

What you're doing here is making a common psychological mistake.

Premise #1: I believe A.

Premise #2: I who believe A, am smart. (lol)

Premise #3: I have discovered smart people.

Leads to:

Conclusion: Being smart people, they must therefore be inclined to discover
this one-true-faith I am endeared to!

The worst part about this, is I dislike a great many things that the
Objectivists are also against, (Plato for example), but their fanaticism and
near-AIPAC-esque-media-reach tests my patience.

Some political notes on Objectivists:

Mainline Objectivists are extremely pro-war and are in support of the US using
its military force to promote US economic interests and hegemony.

Peikoff was strongly in favor of partisanship in the middle east and in
backing Israel, even at the expense of human rights amongst other things.

A particularly astute LewRockwell post: (Mind you, LewRockwell has the people
who should be supporters of the Ayn Rand Institute and yet aren't. Hrrrrm,
maybe there's something to this...)

<http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/raimondo1.html>

Libertarianism/Liberalism _is_ something hackers are inclined to, but it
behooves me not to insult the title to say that they would be inclined to your
dandy little war orgy.

No thank you, and please don't advertise here again.

Edit: Here's just plain a good site demonstrating their myriad sins.

<http://ariwatch.com/index.htm>

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maxharris
Obviously you don't like Objectivist political conclusions.

But Objectivism is not a political movement any more than the National
Organization of Women or the National Rifle Association are philosophical
movements. To properly attack Objectivist political conclusions, you have to
go deeper and explain what you disagree with in the _philosophy_ itself and
why your philosophical stance is relevant to the political conclusion you take
offense to.

~~~
alnayyir
The philosophy is a broken set of assumptions.

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ilkhd2
I am not sure what you mean by hacker, but, for example Stallman I am sure not
an Objectivist.

I myself have beliefs closer to ones of Chomsky than of Rand.

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maxharris
Yes, hackers are pre-disposed towards Objectivism.

Those that are not are: * unaware of Objectivism * or are unwilling to learn
about it because of something they heard about from leftist cynics * or aren't
really hackers in the first place

