
Ask HN: A friend has an offer from an ethically questionable company - jMyles
Hola HN.  I&#x27;m in a situation that I think a lot of us have been in, but I&#x27;ve never really seen advice on what to do.<p>For the second time in a year, I have a friend who is considering an offer from a company whose vertical is highly questionable.<p>Specifically, this company provides intelligence on the &quot;dark web,&quot; ostensibly tracking (and I quote) &quot;terrorists and their supporters.&quot;<p>They literally boast about working with the NSA for the past few years, at a time when, as we all know, parts of NSA SigInt were wholesale criminal operations, illegally spying on people.<p>Their &quot;news&quot; section is full of glorification of war and state intrusion.  It almost reads like a parody.<p>My friend currently has a job at a much more wholesome company, but, as you might guess, this offer constitutes a substantial pay raise.<p>My main concerns are that my friend might be asked to do something really horrible and, due to a confidentiality agreement, might not discuss the matter even if it becomes haunting.<p>Obviously I want to be supportive and help my friend make a decision that is sustainable over the long-term.<p>The hardest part, I think, is distinguish what <i>I</i> do in these situations (decline without a second thought) and what&#x27;s best for a friend.  I don&#x27;t know every detail of the kinds of opportunities my friends have, and I realize that I&#x27;m in a pretty privileged position even within the open source &#x2F; python communities; the last thing I want to be is callous.<p>Have you ever been in this situation?  What, if any, advice did you offer?
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staticautomatic
Your friend's ethics aren't really your business except insofar as you get to
decide whether you want to remain friends with him/her. Let them join Palantir
(I assume). Perhaps they'll see from the inside that it's gross. If they think
it's amazing that they're fighting the baddies while snooping on your gmail
then you can always just slowly break off the friendship.

I think this is obligatory:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEle_DLDg9Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEle_DLDg9Y)

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jMyles
I'm not questioning my friend's ethics; my friend objects to this work too.
There's no hypnosis happening here, it's just a job offer. :-)

The question is, how, if at all, can I help my friend think about balancing,
on one hand, the ethical implications of working for such a company, and, on
the other, gaining a bit more (probably much needed) financial security.

~~~
staticautomatic
It would seem that dodging the ethical issue entirely is a possibility. Is is
not fair to assume that if your friend can get a job with this company, he/she
could get a job paying a similar amount at a non-questionable company? Seems
the easiest way out from a practical standpoint would be to just seek work
elsewhere.

I don't think there's any clear rubric for making these kinds of decisions
involving ethical quandaries. It's up to your friend to simply make a call
about whether it feels right to trade their conscience for money, to put it
cynically.

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rnovak
Well, I mean, is he _asking_ for your advice? If not, I really don't see a
point in bringing it up, unless _maybe_ you have the type of friendship where
you occasionally exchange quips, you might be able to hint at the idea that
you're not cool with it.

I think the _most_ I'd ever say to a friend in such a situation is: "hey, are
you sure you're comfortable with what they do?", phrasing it so that you're
genuinely looking out for _his_ best interest.

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jMyles
Several people have asked and surmised, so I guess it's worth clarifying: the
company in question is not Palantir. It's a company I've never heard of and,
to look at their website, lacks even the tact of Palantir - ie, far more flag
waving and cultish.

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lovelearning
I found the company quite easily with your search words. This post may be read
by someone there and affect your friend's offer or work. I feel you should
edit your question to make it less obvious.

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jMyles
I'm not sure what search phrase you used, but I'm not immediately seeing the
company by searching what I've provided.

Nevertheless, perhaps editing it is a good idea. I don't see a way to edit the
post, though - is there one?

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mod
[https://www.google.com/search?q=%22terrorists+and+their+supp...](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22terrorists+and+their+supporters%22+%22dark+web%22&oq=%22terrorists+and+their+supporters%22+%22dark+web%22)

Just for kicks I used what you quoted, and it seems to be the third result.

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argonaut
If this is Palantir you're talking about (I'm not really sure), I do think
your concerns are overblown. I know a some people who work or worked there.

1) Most of Palantir's customers are ordinary companies, local/state
governments, other types of organizations, or other federal organizations that
are not the CIA/NSA/FBI/DEA/Homeland/TSA/military. You do have to admit that
at least for these clients, Palantir can be construed as doing good (e.g.
streamlining state government tech or something).

2) Your friend can leave any time.

3) One engineer I know who left after a short stint spoke really highly about
the amount of technical growth he got and the amount of
responsibility/autonomy he was given as a new employee, in addition to the
respect his opinions were given by his peers. It also helps that Palantir has
a really great brand name in Silicon Valley.

If he truly does want to go there, it does seem almost overly-moralizing to
try really hard to convince him not to go, especially if it would really help
his career.

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chatmasta
How about you mind your own business instead of attempting to project your own
personal set of ethics onto somebody else?

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fuj
Well... this is not really your business, is it? If your friend does not like
it, he can easily leave. I do not see the problem here.

If you were my friend and I found out that you have been asking this sort of
stuff behind my back on such public forum like this, plus, potentially
jeopardizing my chances of getting a job since it's not that hard to figure
out which company you're talking about, I'd tell you to go take a hike.

