
If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try charging it on the right - gkop
https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/363933/182292
======
atonse
This post on HN yesterday fixed my problems of the last 5-7 days. I use a TB 2
Hub hooked up to a 2018 MBP to 2 4k monitors, a USB mic, etc.

And I've noticed the hub got really unstable whenever the CPU fans would go
wild. Looks like it was the controller overheating due to the shitty thermals
that Jony Ive's Apple seems to keep pushing out. (Still the Apple of today).

Now that I've switched my ports in a different config, so far I've had no
crashes in the last 2 days.

I swear, I wish I didn't love macOS so much (or wasn't so heavily invested in
it), or I'd happily ditch it for a really powerful thermally cooled desktop
and use that as my machine. WSL makes this more palatable, but the
unparalleled retina support on macOS, my 15 years of using it, and just habits
built up, keeps me from leaving. (I felt the same way when I first moved from
windows to macOS, but it was in my early 20s and I had lots of time to play
with the OS)

~~~
arcticfox
YMMV but switching from laptop OS X to desktop Linux has been a gamechanger
for me. Far cheaper, and the power / UX of a mid-range 2020 desktop blows my
2019 Macbook Pro completely out of the water for my usecase. Code is a joy
again. When I do use my Macbook on the go, I generally use VSCode remotely
connected to my desktop because it's so much faster.

I also use Regolith Linux, which is a noob-friendly tiling window manager
version of Ubuntu, and it feels so slick with multiple monitors.

~~~
read_if_gay_
I switched from a macOS laptop to a Linux laptop and it’s been completely the
opposite for me. I’ve been spending so much time fighting the OS, I’m actually
considering buying a Mac again even though the laptop is just a few months
old.

You can call me too incompetent or whatever but I’ve been running into
stupidly obscure bugs that even stumped some of my Linux guru friends.

Just as one example of many, when the device is connected to a Thunderbolt
display the Intel wifi driver crashes and restarts periodically which freezes
USB input for about 15 seconds every time. This issue persisted across
different Linux distributions, kernels and firmware versions.

Don’t ask how long it took to figure this out. I have now connected a USB wifi
dongle to the displays USB hub.

I really miss the plug+play nature of macOS, I think Linux has it advantages
and it might be better on desktops but it’s just been horrible for me on a
laptop. I might have to try a MacBook plus a fast Linux desktop next.

~~~
core-questions
> You can call me too incompetent or whatever but I’ve been running into
> stupidly obscure bugs that even stumped some of my Linux guru friends.

No, you're not incompetent. As usual, manufacturers are putting weird features
into their laptops that the Linux drivers and userspace can't keep up with -
e.g. the debacle that is the Nvidia Prime gpu switching tech for low power vs
high performance modes. Simply doesn't work most of the time, leaving you
scratching your head. UEFI related woes are also common as we finally deal
with having to give up on a decent experience with legacy boot.

At this point the wise person buys a laptop with official Linux support out of
the box. It helps you and it helps the community (vote with your dollars!).

~~~
taurath
Unfortunately I’ve had similar issues with “official” Linux supported
hardware. Linux on desktop still requires forum diving.

~~~
freedomben
Who is declaring that hardware "official" and if they're calling it
"supported" shouldn't they be supporting it?

~~~
taurath
It was a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition with Ubuntu, far and away the most
recommended distro/hardware combination. Everything else seems to be less
supported.

If someone doesn't know how to dig into terminal commands and google stuff on
your phone to troubleshoot, you shouldn't even attempt linux on a desktop.

~~~
freedomben
Oh yeah, Dell XPS Dev edition is usually a decent choice, although you're
right that not everything works perfectly (at least it didn't a few years ago
when I bought one). It is a little annoying to have bugs in a factory-
installed OS, but I'm glad to at least have the option.

I actually prefer Thinkpads these days because everything "just works" when I
install Fedora on it.

If you're an Ubuntu person and want it from the factory, I have heard that
System76 build quality has gotten pretty good.

------
baybal2
>
> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265549](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265549)

> Apple says "we are listening now, and here is a new cooling design," then it
> comes out to be even less adequate that the old one. I can't think of
> anybody else capable of trolling up their customers like that.

Apple's thermal engineering is simply bad, and doing it bad is a company
policy.

There are no other believable explanation to me. Apple been promising to fix
their thermal design for years on end, with each year's model being supposed
to have better thermals than the previous one, but in reality all their
designs were consistently crappy.

The only explanation to that for me is that they took thermals as a subtle
marketing feature, just like makers of laptops with crappy batteries always
find ways to draw battery life from thin air.

~~~
vbezhenar
Proper cooling requires thick laptop. Take a look at mobile workstations or
high end gamer laptops. They are not thin, but their cooling is more adequate
(although still not on tower level). There's no way to fool physics and
combine good cooling, thin design and quiet fans, you have to compromise on
something.

~~~
dijit
I mean, I agree with you, but you can't look at a thick laptop and just assume
it's going to be better.

Thermal zones in servers is a good example of low physical footprint and high
density power consumption that cools quite well. The engineering effort being
spent on a good thermal solution can cause a device that is thin to outperform
a thicker device.

It's just that Apple does not seem to be spending the resources there.

~~~
likeclockwork
1U servers are LOUD though.

~~~
dijit
Only because there's no need for them not to be. it's common to retrofit
slower spinning quieter fans into servers for home/office use.

But the same design constraints were used in a mini-itx gaming PC on the linus
tech tips channel a few months ago.. I can't seem to find the video now
though. The thermal performance was amazing.

------
julianlam
> Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the
> OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised
> the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. No
> kernel_task either, but the machine becomes unusable from something
> throttling.

I feel like the top answer is missing the forest for the trees. If the
temperature of the chassis rises past 100 degrees because a _peripheral was
plugged in_ , and degrades performance if all of the peripheral ports are in
use... that's not a usable computer.

Edit: Ah, 100F is 37C, so that's not so bad.

~~~
IntelMiner
A long time ago (roughly 2012?) I owned a Macbook Pro for a brief time

I was running Windows 7 in Bootcamp and I wanted to set up Gentoo Linux in a
virtual machine for some Linux work I needed to do

I left the machine on my desk to compile a kernel. Basic wooden desk, nothing
underneath or around it. No problems there

Roughly 5 minutes later, the system had reached what Speccy reported to be a
scorching 117 degrees celsius! (242.6F)

I immediately shut it down and left it to cool off, then asked around on an
IRC full of various flavours of IT people (programmers etc)

The horrifying answers I got were that this was INTENTIONAL and that "the
system acts as a giant heat sink" which is why it didn't power off after
crossing a threshold

As far as I understand it, running it under Bootcamp also disabled any kind of
thermal throttling and forced the more power hungry "Radeon" graphics chip to
be used, further adding to the problem

~~~
chillacy
I remember those macbooks got so hot that it was physically painful to touch
the metal under the screen near the magsafe charging port. That was fun.

~~~
geerlingguy
I have forever been leery of hitting the F4-F8 buttons because of the 2007
Core 2 Duo model. I used it for a couple years and remember at least 3-4 times
when I decided to rest a finger up there and ended up getting scorched.

~~~
unicornfinder
Yup I remember this. The area above the F keys would downright burn.

------
abakker
Relevant recent experience: I have had a 2019 MBP with vega graphics card for
a while. I noticed that recently it was running VERY hot all the time. I
popped the bottom off (you need that damned pentalobe screwdriver), and found
tons of dust jamming the fans entirely. Upon removing all the dust and
cleaning out the fan ports the machine runs great again. If you're having
cooling problems start with this fix.

------
woodpanel
I have a 13“ 2017 MBP.

What is annoying:

\- runs extremely hot, easily

\- fans are often on full force albeit nothing special is happening

\- before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them
(normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the
point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule)

\- connecting external devices usually requires adapters. With them too, when
the adapter stopped working usually it helped connecting it on the right side
(Reboots weren’t helping)

\- for some reason the adapter would work on the left side again after some
time

\- as soon as I connect the external screen (not even a retina one) the fans
go louder

\- time machine is a PITA. Every time it runs fans are blaring up, machine
gets hot - even system is getting significantly slower. Even if it just backs
up a diff of 150MB. And it runs multiple times a day, with no option of
configuration other than no auto-backup at all.

\- Window’s decade old window management via shortcuts still doesn’t exist in
macOs (you have to install a third party tool for that)

~~~
mft_
> before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them
> (normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the
> point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule)

To add a contrasting datapoint, my (gen 2) AirPods have been virtually
flawless for a year or so with my 15" 2017 MBP.

~~~
woodpanel
Well maybe it's due to mine being gen 1 AirPods ️?

------
save_ferris
I was talking to a hardware engineer a while back who was heavily criticizing
USB-C is because of all the ways vendors can abuse it. Turns out that the USBC
port on the Nintendo Switch doesn’t comply with the USB-PD standard, which
caused lots of issues for users who had third party charging docks.[0] There
were accusations that Nintendo did this intentionally to restrict third-party
accessories.

After reading that, nothing I read about USBC surprises me. Sounds like
another spec for vendors to abuse and ignore.

0:
[https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-...](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-
compliant_usb-c_spec_be_to_blame_for_third-party_docks_bricking_consoles)

~~~
Dylan16807
The switch has issues, but the bricking was because one of those dumb docks
was putting 9 volts on a pin that's supposed to be using 2 volt signals, if I
read the spec right. And the switch tolerated 5 volts there, too. Putting more
than 5 volts onto the non-power pins is such an obvious violation that I can't
blame the spec for _that_ fault.

------
seanalltogether
Are there any good macbook laptop stands that act as a heatsink as well? My
current stand has rubber grips so while there's plenty of airflow under it the
heat isn't being drawn away very well. I don't want to add a fan since that
would add noise.

~~~
AdamN
I really like the mStand:
[https://www.raindesigninc.com/mstand.html](https://www.raindesigninc.com/mstand.html)

It is solid metal with lots of airflow underneath.

~~~
tom_
I also rate these stands - but it has rubber grips. You're not going to get
any heat transfer from laptop to stand, so it's not going to act as a
heatsink.

~~~
minimaxir
I have the same stand and it does absorb a good amount of heat when the Mac is
running at full power (the angle helps there too), albeit not a true "heat
sink". The rubber has negligible displacement.

------
igammarays
This is why a "universal" port was a bad idea. Just because a cable looks like
it'll fit doesn't mean it will work. Charging ports have fundamentally
different requirements from data ports and display ports. I miss MagSafe.

Also, if the overheating issues are true then macOS should issue a warning
when charging from an unsuitable port.

~~~
cosmie
> Also, if the overheating issues are true then macOS should issue a warning
> when charging from an unsuitable port.

It doesn't seem to be an issue with the port being unsuitable - the SE post
mentions[1] that the right side similarly increases in temperature
significantly when in use. It just doesn't trigger the same throttling
behavior.

Looking at an iFixit teardown[2], the ssd chips are located next to the left
thunderbolt controller. I wonder if that may be why temperature spikes on the
left side trigger more aggressive temperature management than spikes on the
right.

[1] Quote: _Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored
by the OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left
raised the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming
on._

[2]
[https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Ba...](https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+2019+Teardown/123653)

------
dang
This was discussed yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22949580](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22949580).
Since this discussion is still charging, maybe we'll merge those comments
hither.

More interestingly: it was posted, but barely discussed, in 2018:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843277](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843277).

------
SlashmanX
I think this part of the comment should be highlighted more due to people
simply thinking switching to the right side 'fixes' whatever the issue is:

> Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the
> OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised
> the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. No
> kernel_task either, but the machine becomes unusable from something
> throttling.

------
kalleboo
I thought I was insane and the only person this affected, I even recorded and
uploaded a YouTube video demonstrating it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox2IfViJLg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox2IfViJLg)

------
noir_lord
I have the 16" Macbook Pro (work issued) and it does get _very_ warm when you
are charging and running a couple of monitors (1x1920x1080 and 1x4096x3084)
even when not under a massive amount of load.

It's fine because in that situation it's on a stand on my work desk and it's
noticeably cooler when not runnig the externals when it's on my lap.

Lovely hardware and it was a good move to switch to a Mac because the team I
run had already standardised on macs when I joined the team but its one thing
that makes me wish I'd stuck to an equivalent Thinkpad/Fedora if I'm honest.

~~~
gnarbarian
Hard to beat a Thinkpad with Linux for dev work. a year ago I switched from a
mbp to a Thinkpad with Ubuntu and I cringe every time I have to go back to the
Mac in order to do something.

~~~
closeparen
As much as I want to do this, Apple has spoiled me with seamless high-DPI
display support. I cringe every time I see 1366x768.

~~~
henriquez
The high-dpi support really is a big deal. No other OS (Windows or Linux)
comes close to handling it as seamlessly. I run Gnome in Ubuntu and have got
it to a "serviceable" state by being able to set pixel density on a per-app
basis by editing launcher files (depending on which display it's running on),
but that's not something an average user would be able to figure out (or
should have to).

Apple has done a great job with their window manager and support for varying
DPI between displays. It's just a shame their OS is otherwise such a walled
garden, and their hardware is a bad joke ($6k for an 8 core desktop with a
years old GPU and no storage, come on.) It really boiled down to a "pick your
poison" scenario for me and I sided with the OS (and hardware) that lets me
tinker to my heart's content.

~~~
thomaslord
> The high-dpi support really is a big deal. I honestly don't understand this.
> I owned a Retina MacBook Pro (2015) for a while and my current (Lenovo)
> laptop has a 4k screen, but I don't think I've ever actually cared about the
> increased pixel density. The only thing it's ever done for me is increase
> heat production, decrease battery life, and decrease compatibility (there's
> Mac software that isn't Retina compatible too, and it looks at least as bad
> as on Windows).

I use 24 inch monitors at 1080p all day and I can see the pixels if I look,
but images still look plenty good and text is super readable. I switch between
this pixel density and my Pixel 3 XL and while I can definitely notice the
difference in density if I look, my productivity isn't affected whatsoever by
having a less dense screen. Is everyone else putting their face 2 inches from
the screen every 5 minutes just for the sense of satisfaction they get from
not seeing the pixels?

> Apple has done a great job with their window manager I think that's a pretty
> massive stretch. I haven't used a Mac as my primary machine for a few years
> now, but I've been watching the window management get worse and worse over
> the years. It used to be you could have a grid of Spaces and proper
> intuitive window management, but now Maximize is hidden behind the
> Fullscreen button. Virtually everyone I've watched use a recent version of
> macOS either has everything fullscreen, uses one window at a time with 4" of
> spacing around it because it's a pain to properly size the windows, or has 7
> different apps installed to fill in missing features that have been around
> in Linux for as long as I can remember and in Windows since Windows 7.

~~~
Bud
You don't understand because you are the kind of person who buys a laptop with
a 4k screen and thinks that's an asset, who thinks 1080p monitors and that
aspect ratio are acceptable, etc.

In other words, you've never had a large high-dpi monitor setup with multiple
screens large enough to appreciate it. And you haven't ever been an advanced
enough Mac user to learn keyboard commands and the various ways to manage
windows.

~~~
henriquez
That was extremely rude and condescending.

------
hguant
Anecdotally, and I haven't done any serious testing of this, my work
colleagues and I have noticed that on our 2017, 15 inch MacbookPros, wired
Ethernet (either from a dongle, or a hub) is only reliable on the right hand
side. One co-worker has realized he has to plug in his hub after boot, but
before he logs in in order for the device to be recognized, if the hub is
wired into his wall drop. There are obvious work-arounds to all these issues,
but it's frustrating to have these sorts of problems on such an expensive
machine.

~~~
cmsparks
I have a similar issue with setting up my eGPU with Bootcamp. Apparently the
macOS bootloader messes with the setup of a ton of devices so what I have to
do is plug in USB C devices before boot, then plug in my thunderbolt devices
in the bottom left port at a specific point during boot, then plug in USB-A
devices after login. Anything else crashes the machine.

Admittedly my use-case is niche, but I wouldn’t be surprised about similar
things happening with other devices.

------
spiderfarmer
I just bought an eGPU to solve the Macbook overheating problem. While that
works, it made me mad that I had to spend 350 euro’s to fix a problem I did
not have with my 2014 model, while having an extra unsightly box on my desk
with a giant power brick.

~~~
diggan
Heh, you effectively no longer have a laptop either (I mean, you do, if you
want it to overheat I guess), so you spent money + changed it to a desktop
computer, without really getting any of the benefits of a desktop computer.

~~~
laumars
While your comment is genuinely amusing it should be stated that the eGPU
wouldn't be needed when out and about since you'd only be running the one
screen. So in some ways having an eGPU is the best of both worlds: something
equivalent to a desktop PC when "docked" at his desk but still a usable
portable device when out and about.

~~~
spiderfarmer
Yes, but I absolutely do not need the 3D capabilities of that card. I just
want a cool laptop with a large screen for remote work and a 4k or 5k monitor
at home.

~~~
ValentineC
Here's hoping some enterprising TB3 hub maker adds a decent, low-powered GPU
into one of their hubs.

This might help balance the load of driving a 4k/5k screen, or at the very
least, keep the MacBook's motherboard cool, and also keep the whole setup
fairly portable.

~~~
laumars
I’d snap that up in a heartbeat if it meant I could run more than 2 external
screens on my shitty 2015 non-touchbar MBP (the model with only 2 USB-C ports)

------
iamunr
I've been plagued by this since I started WFH recently, been driving me nuts.

My work from home setup has me on the left side, instead of right.

Switched sides back, it's left me alone.

It's -crazy- to think this is a real issue.

~~~
redwall_hp
I always use the left, because it keeps cords away from the mouse zone, and I
can let the cord run straighter to avoid stress (and prevent fraying). What
the hell, Apple?

~~~
Marsymars
It's a shame right-angle Thunderbolt cables aren't really a thing. I'm using a
right-angle USB-C cable for my docked 12" MB which really cleans up the desk
space.

------
konradb
I've only ever plugged my LG Ultrafine 5k into the right hand side of 2016 15
inch, but I find that if the room is warm (perhaps > 22 degrees C) I have
'kernel_task' apparently maxing out my CPU. Anecdotally until I discovered
that aiming a fan at the underside seemed to make this problem go away. It
doesn't seem to happen (that I remember...) when the big screen isn't plugged
in.

------
dep_b
I discovered I could charge two MacBooks on one charger by daisy chaining
them, for some reason I didn't expect that to work. The second laptop didn't
charge very fast if at all, but you can keep working while you left your
charger at hame.

~~~
ShamelessC
I've managed to "charge" mine with a Nintendo Switch adapter. Showed the
charging symbol but still depleted battery over time. Just slowly.

~~~
frosted-flakes
The Nintendo Switch charger only puts out 39 watts, and I think the Macbook
Pro charger puts out 96 watts, so it makes sense that it would charge slowly.

------
petetnt
One ridiculous thing I ran into was that USB-C hubs can block Wi-Fi that is on
the 2,4ghz band. Solution? Wrapping it into foil somewhat works but I had to
buy a new Wi-Fi access point. Sometimes rotating the USB-C adapters works too.

~~~
petee
A name-brand hub, or Alibaba junk?

~~~
petetnt
Any USB-C hub, I'm using an official Apple one. It's a well documented issue.

------
minikites
It's incredible to me that Apple has maybe 10 major products and they somehow
can't focus on any of them not named "iPhone". Between the keyboards, thermal
issues in the previous Mac Pro, ignoring the iPad's software, and other issues
I've probably forgotten, what exactly is their dysfunction?

~~~
tracer4201
I feel like they did make investments in MacBooks, just not the kind I want. I
care less about a thinner laptop. Keep the same thickness with a nicer screen
and overall build quality. Apples focused abit too much on aesthetic over
function, but with the recent 16” MacBook, they’re making course corrections.

Personally I can’t figure out my development workflow on Windows. I tried the
Linux subsystem stuff and IO was just too damn slow. 15 minutes to install a
few package dependencies. For a while, I ended up running Ubuntu on another
machine that I would SSH into for all my side projects just so I have my
trusty zshell and all the nice package managers and other build tools.

~~~
thelazydogsback
> Personally I can’t figure out my development workflow on Windows

Can you elaborate? How is your dev workflow os-dependent?

~~~
tracer4201
It’s not OS dependent. It’s just that doing it on Mac let’s me focus on the
problem I want to solve vs non value add stuff like just getting things
configured.

I’m relatively fast using zshell, vim, iTerm, tab space to quickly search and
open a file or program, adding things to my .zsh rc file, quickly installing
packages, etc. In Windows, everything is slower, and I generally feel
disoriented.

Something as simple as running docker wouldn’t work on windows. Apparently I
need Windows 10 Pro edition... and I had the license too but upgrading would
fail and rollback. It’s things like this that add up.

------
peterkelly
The side doesn't make any difference to me.

I have an LG Ultrafine 5k connected via thunderbolt. In order to use my
machine for anything even mildly intensive while the monitor is plugged in,
I've resorted to a 5-fan laptop cooling stand _and_ a medium-sized personal
cooling fan sitting next to it.

I do live in a warm climate, but this is ridiculous.

The only thing I can think of other than it being shitty thermal design is
that the cable is dodgy, easily losing signal if moved the wrong way. Is this
something that could affect it? I'm planning to order a new cable but I've
seen so many reports of thunderbolt ports getting to hot and triggering the
dreaded kernel_task I'm not optimistic.

------
guessmyname
Does anyone know if this also affects MacBook Pro 13” with only two
Thunderbolt ports on the left (the ones without Touch ID)? Are these ports the
same as the laptops with three ports? If yes, does this mean we (MBP13” users)
have no solution?

~~~
wilsonnb3
The MBP with only 2 TB3 ports run lower wattage processors (15w instead of 28)
which may have an effect in this situation.

------
turtlebits
Haven't noticed this on my 2018 15" i7. My monitor at work (2160p) and home
(1440p ultrawide) are placed to the left of my laptop and always use both left
TB3 ports for charging and display

~~~
kalleboo
Also depends on ambient temperature. I never have trouble in winter, but
summer is hell

------
btbuildem
I've had issues with my 2017 MBP running really hot, but never connected that
with kernel_task running at 150% CPU until now.

I found a tool called Mac Fan Control, which lets you change the thresholds at
which the fans kick in. I've been using it for a good while now. Laptop runs
louder, but cooler.

Today my machine slogged to a crawl, became basically unusable to the point of
restart -- I don't remember which port the power was plugged into, but this
definitely shed some light on the issue. Fan Control wasn't running,
incidentally.

------
jonawesomegreen
I still have the problem that my 16" MacBook runs really hot with a external
display plugged in. There is a pretty good thread on the issue on the mac
rumors forum [1]. It seems to particularly be a problem at 2560 x 1440 @ 60hz.

[1] [https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-
an...](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-
monitor.2211747/)

------
mattigames
I wish running hot was the my only problem with my macbook pro[0], and
certainly using the right side didn't help.

[0]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/g5lvbc/15_fla...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/g5lvbc/15_flaws_of_the_macbook_pro_and_macos/)

------
Rebelgecko
This is wild. IIRC, the TB3 ports in right side have lower bandwidth, so I've
always plugged everything in on the left.

I wonder if this is the reason my MBP would get sluggish while kernel_task
uses a surprising amount of CPU? I always blamed the corporate
spyware/antivirus. Maybe I was just charging it wrong

~~~
diebeforei485
Anyone know if any 2018 and 2019 Macbook Pro models also have slower TB ports
on the right side?

I recall this being an issue with 2016 and 2017 models (edit: just the 13"
models), not sure about more recent ones.

~~~
ashtonkem
I thought this was different between the 13” and 15” versions.

~~~
diebeforei485
You're right - the 15" models always had full speed on all TB3 ports.

Do you know if recent 13" models still have slower ports on the right side,
though?

~~~
akmarinov
Recent ones have full speed on all ports.

------
OzzyB
Just been going thru "Mac Kernel Task Hell" myself recently until I got a box
of a cold gel packs [0] to act as my new "Macbook Pro Cooling Stand".

Seriously, I know my Mac is a little old (2015 pre-Touchbar) but that doesn't
mean I need to suffer like this w/ kernel_task eating 1,324% of my available
CPU just because it's getting a little hot.

Other routes taken:

\- Get a Fan App to keep the fans running at max 24/7, meh

\- Take the risk of bricking my one and only dev machine by disabling the
kernel_task process altogether, no thanks

No, just one nice ice pack with a cute tea towel on top, makes for a nice
stand that keeps the aluminum unibody thingy nice and cool, sigh

[0] [https://www.uline.com/BL_2158/Cold-
Packs](https://www.uline.com/BL_2158/Cold-Packs)

~~~
danieldk
_Take the risk of bricking my one and only dev machine by disabling the
kernel_task process altogether, no thanks_

It has PID 0 and is part of the kernel. AFAIK you can't disable it (unless you
build your own kernel).

~~~
saagarjha
You can't disable it at all; it _is_ the kernel.

~~~
danieldk
‘It’ refers to this specific functionality.

If you recompile the XNU kernel you could disable the part that ‘reserves’ the
CPU to cool the system. I am not sure whether is is still possible to replace
the kernel, but IIRC some Hackintosh people replace it by custom builds
(assuming that Apple released the relevant version already).

Of course you probably do not want to do that, this is done for a reason.

------
RandallBrown
Interesting. I've noticed the fans going crazy way more when I use my laptop
from bed (charger on my left side) vs my desk, (charger on my right side).

I figured it was the blanket restricting airflow (which I'm sure is still a
big contributor). Interesting stuff.

------
lnanek2
I bet if you take a look at the motherboard for the year and model this
happens on the CPU is closer to the left side than the right. That would
explain the kernel task being configured to force idleness when left side is
hot, but not the right side.

------
j45
This is a real problem on the 15" 2018 MacBook Pro.

Quick summary of my experience: It turned out TB3 chip is on the left side by
the power plug and was warming up too much by having both power and
accessories flowing thru it for the internal fans to be able to cool off, and
the OS was spinning up phantom kernel_task cycles to attempt to slow and cool
down the computer.

In my case case I was waiting for an 87W TB3 docking station to come along,
and was in the meantime running 2 external monitors off the left side using
Apple's dongles.

This looks like the post that saved my sanity. Apple has a pretty serious
design flaw in its MacBooks.

------
talentedcoin
Whenever I read this stuff now I just feel a little sad.

For years OS X (macOS?) has been my go-to, but lately I find myself wondering
why I’m paying such a premium for what amounts to some nice-but-problematic
hardware and an OS with a bolted-on package manager. To develop iPhone apps I
guess?

I see some good points in this thread (e.g. iMessage). Maybe I’m just getting
old. I’d rather just have a ThinkPad or an EliteBook running Ubuntu or, sigh,
Windows. (I’m not a Windows fan but at least it doesn’t feel like it’s
regressing like the Mac experience has been.)

~~~
Helloworldboy
I feel like hardware problems on Macs are overblown, especially compared to
the alternatives.

I also don’t understand the idea that MacOS has been regressing, it seems like
a weird hivemind take around here lately.

~~~
_jal
Agreed on the hardware. Part of it is perception - people expect crappy
windows laptops to be crappy and break down. Apple is "supposed" to be
perfect, and any problems are instantly literal front-page news.

MacOS has had a bad run, though. It is substantially buggier than it used to
be - I see far more weird silent failures than I have in a long time (pre-Snow
Leopard), bad performance in some cases, etc.

And then there is all the Catalina security-related breakage. Maybe that will
work out for the bulk of users, but it broke the platform for me. That's the
reason I don't see myself paying for another.

------
pmiller2
Couple of dumb-sounding questions after reading the link:

* Left or right side relative to what? Is it my right when looking at the laptop screen?

* Does this have any implications for reliability of Bluetooth transmitters? I use a mouse and keyboard that both plug into a USB-C hub, and sometimes have issues with mouse tracking, or keystrokes not being registered. My WFH setup has these things plugged in on the opposite side they normally would be, and I think I'm seeing this issue a little more frequently than I was in the office.

~~~
mercer
* I think the right when you look at the screen.

* I hope so! I use bluetooth mouse and keyboard, and have had similar issue on my MBP 2019 (the latest one). The issues only seem to crop up when I'm at my desk, with the power plugged in on the left side, and the USB-C hub (for external drives and monitor) on the right side. I now have a tiny bit of hope that swapping power and hub might fix these issues.

~~~
pmiller2
Switching the charging port to the other side has dramatically helped with the
other issues I mentioned. That was a bit of a surprise.

------
Cthulhu_
+1 Anecdata: I have a hub (USB, network, charging, HDMI) all going into a
single USB-C port, really convenient. Watched the CPU usage of kernel_task for
a minute while it was plugged into the left (which I have done by default), it
hovered around 20-25%.

Switched to the right side port, CPU usage for kernel_task dropped to around
4-6%.

Switching back, letting it chooch for a while, still hovers around 5% but with
more jumps to 6 or 9%. May be down to that side having cooled down a bit.

I'll keep an eye on it, that's pretty interesting.

------
ateevchopra
I've had this problem too for a while now with my MBP 2017. The left ports
can't be used for charging at all. The moment I plug in the charger, the fans
start running at full speed.

I 'm having issues even on one of the right side port. I can't use it for
anything. If I plug in my monitor, It shows me "USB Accessories Disabled"
error. If I plug in my HDD, it just doesn't work. I've tried resetting the SMC
and PRAM. Anyone had similar experience ?

------
caconym_
My work machine, which is a 15" MPB, has such poor thermal performance that
I'd never consider buying one with my own money. My personal machine is an
Air, which only gets hot when I'm actually doing something taxing. I can live
with that.

Generally I am a big fan of Apple products, but I don't know how they have the
gall to ship these things with such hideously disruptive heat issues.
Hopefully the new 16" model is the start of a swing back toward sanity.

------
karmakaze
MacBook Pro 15. I always charge on the left and USB-C 4k@60 video on the
right. It runs the coolest and quietest.

My work monitor only has 60W USB-C PD anyway (home does 100W).

------
jokoon
I still wonder if there are durable brands for laptops, since I'm not sure the
new thinkpads are so good. I guess dell makes good "pro" laptops, Toshiba
maybe?

It doesn't seem there really are brands that can be considered as reliable
anymore. Of course Asia has such a big market share on computer parts, it's
not surprising that no laptop can work well after 5 years.

~~~
Engineering-MD
I have found dell particular unreliable with bad design decisions (coil
engine, overheating and fan nose) plus multiple hardware failures.

------
outside1234
I have a similar (but different) thing - I find that external monitors only
work reliably when plugged into the right side.

------
nihonium
I also noticed that on my Macbook 16", if I use my left ports for external
monitors, fans are going louder sooner.

------
ycombi3
MBP quality has been consistently less and less quality as the years go on. It
would take me a page just to write out the critical issues my brand new MBP is
facing. Apple has not done much QC with the updates to the point of an update
temporarily wasting the computer.

------
munk-a
I really can't stand the trend to keep making things thinner - it's gotten to
the point where it's hard to find a work laptop I can get through my company
that comes with an ethernet port. If we can miniaturize stuff so well then
can't we miniaturize it all to spread components further apart in a
predominantly empty but tall case so airflow stops being an issue?

~~~
bonestamp2
I used to think apple was obsessed with thinness, but I think that's actually
the byproduct of what they're actually obsessed with: weight. While they might
seem like the same thing, and they are obviously related... I don't care so
much about the change in thickness from an aesthetic standpoint, but I do
appreciate that the latest generation of macbook pros are noticeably lighter
in my hand and on my back. So, I can see one practical reason for doing it.

~~~
monadic2
That’s all fine until they use this as an excuse to remove a drive, or a
headphone port, or prevent you from changing the battery, and then refuse to
admit they aren’t meeting the needs of their customers.

~~~
johncolanduoni
What makes you think it’s an _excuse_ to remove those, as opposed to the
reason they did so? What do you think their real motivation is?

~~~
monadic2
All Apple provides us is correlation, so it's entirely possible (likely even)
that the removal was incidental and driven by competing internal needs (like
removal of wires, progression towards thinness). Materially it doesn't matter
at all what caused this because they don't offer phones with functionality
people clearly desire that are otherwise commonplace.

It'd be much nicer if they simply offered things like removable battery,
headphone, etc, and articulated how this would affect the form of the phone,
but that would affect other priorities that Apple has. It's not difficult to
accept, even on this forum, that materially their massive profit margin hurts
their product offering.

~~~
johncolanduoni
Progression towards weight doesn’t sound to me like an excuse for ... doing it
for progression towards thinness. Which was what your parent comment was
talking about their motivation being. I, by the way, am an iPhone user who
wishes they kept the jack.

I’m also not sure what you mean by their profit margin hurting their product
offering. Do you mean their desire to keep iPhones an aloof luxury brand hurts
their product offering? I suppose dropping surprises like removing jack X or
button Y could be part of that, but I think it’s more likely they have found
customers with different preferences than you or I to be a preponderance of
their user base and decided that making us happier is not economically worth a
totally separate mechanical design that they have to both manufacture and
separately stock. Maybe they incited people to move to airpods, but their
forced converts seem to largely like them.

------
dariosalvi78
Wanna talk about the keyboard? The one I'm using is the fourth I will have to
get rid of because of the keyboard becoming useless.

I once had an Asus eeePC, probably the cheapest laptop ever made, and it had a
better life span.

------
hboon
It's probably obvious but it's obvious to me only on hindsight: Do not block
the ventilation vents of your MacBook Pros. Eg. this might happen if you use
it on the bed (hopefully not for too long).

------
mgkimsal
left vs right USB-C ports...

I got a MBP 2019 at the end of May 2019 - it was _just_ released a few days
before. My USB-C ports on the left of the computer do not power an external
monitor, only ports on the right. This doesn't seem to be called out in any
specs, but and another MBP 2019, purchased in October... doesn't exhibit that.
I feel like I got some weird 'in between' model. I can't find it now, but I'd
thought I'd seen something in the 'system report' showing that some powers had
more power than others...

~~~
Aqueous
sounds like it might be a defect. i have a 2018 mbp with a monitor plugged
into both left and right right now

~~~
mgkimsal
I could swear at the time I remember reading that one set of ports had higher
power than the other, and... IIRC, that's true for the 13" models (or was for
some years?) but wasn't supposed to be for the 15" models.

------
olso
Macs Fan Control, I basically never encounter hot temp, with these sane
preferences

[https://imgur.com/a/d2IckFs](https://imgur.com/a/d2IckFs)

------
zitterbewegung
I plugged my Dongle and my charger on the right. I also have turbo boost
disabled but now I think I Have improved my thermals by ~6-10 degrees C. I did
unplug my backup SSD though.

------
bootstraping
For me, it's the reverse. Kernel usage spikes when I use the top right port
for charging. It's fine if I use the left ones.

------
gchokov
This is the best feature of the USB-C MBPpro. I don't mind getting hot on one
of the sides because of it :)

~~~
jonas21
Actually, that's a feature too. Feeling cold? Charge on the left. Feeling
warm? Charge on the right.

~~~
Twisol
On the off chance you haven't seen this particular xkcd yet:
[https://xkcd.com/1172/](https://xkcd.com/1172/)

It's a little scary just how often xkcd is relevant.

------
apfsx
Wow am I glad to know this now... I've had this issue on my 2018 macbook pro
for a year...

------
bogidon
Someone should sell a cooling shell for MacBooks that replaces the aluminum
underbelly.

------
sologoub
When stuff like this comes up, I keep wondering how Jobs would have reacted to
this...

~~~
seppin
I think he would have yelled at an engineer to fix it while he took ayahuasca
in Big Sur.

------
vic20forever
You're charging it wrong.

------
mcot2
Wow like 10 minutes before I saw this post I was running into the same issue.

------
rurban
For me charging left was better, but USB-C right was far better

------
mperham
Also, 2016/17 MBPs have half bandwidth on the right-side ports, this was fixed
in the 2018 refresh.

tl;dr: charge on the right, monitors on the left.

~~~
kalleboo
Applies to 13 inch only, 15 inch has always had full bandwidth on all ports

------
diebeforei485
Do we know why this happens?

------
stevefan1999
why didn't Crapple fix this?

------
chadlavi
holy crap

------
PaulHoule
Dude, get a Dell.

~~~
DonHopkins
Dude, you're busted!

[https://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/10/deli.dude.arrest/](https://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/10/deli.dude.arrest/)

------
fatamorgana
Its fine bro, just buy the 7000$ mac pro.

~~~
dang
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

