

Ask HN: Raising my rates as an offshore dev - beeblbrox

I'm a brazilian resident, and I just got offered a job as a contractor for a NY company. Looking at some recent posts about salaries, the $35/hour they offered me pales in comparison with the $100+/year I've been seeing. I did some independent research, and it's not hard to find people charging $120+/hour. I suspect I'm being lowballed specifically because I'm not based in the US.<p>I like to think I have a good experience. I'm a Ruby/PHP/JS developer with 6 years of solid professional experience, plus 2 years studying before I got my first real job. Worked remotely at least at some capacity this entire time. I did a very technical interview with this company, and they seemed very impressed (as in "we do not see this all the time").<p>So my question is: how do I get better rates as an offshore dev? I'd rather not move to the US right now (Brazil is very cheap outside the capitals, and I'm saving money to move to Europe next year), but that's not completely out of the question. I've seen people suggesting to bill by the week instead of hourly, should I try that? I have some projects on my portfolio (I'm adding a couple of personal projects to that list this month), but I don't have much open source code, maybe I should work a little bit on that? Or are my rates already average based in my experience? I have difficulties evaluating my own skills, so maybe I'm asking too much.<p>Thanks in advance for your input!
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jasonkester
First, make yourself provably valuable. As in, have a bunch of things that you
can point to and say "I built these, and I can build the thing you need too".
It can be a startup, a live website from one of your old gigs, or (far less
impressive to employers) open source stuff. More stuff is more better. Be the
guy who built "x", as seen on the cover of "kickass engineer" magazine.

At the same time, make sure you're not putting anybody off with your
communication style. You want to be able to pass for a Silicon Valley startup
employee both over email and on the phone. Communication is seriously
overlooked by most developers, and I'd say it's a big factor in why some guys
can negotiate $200/hr contract gigs and others have trouble finding a job at
all. Just a few little red-flag type errors in your email style can drop you
right back into the "$10/hr guy from India or someplace, I think" pile.

Good job, by the way, being born in New York. That's your timezone, so it
might as well be where people think you're from. No need to say so in as many
words, but next time somebody asks, you're on "East Coast Time". You can be in
Brazil again once you're in the door and delivering results.

So that's it, really. Get good at what you do, make sure people know it, and
that if they don't know it yet they will after a quick email back and forth.
Take that $35/hr gig if it's all that's on offer now. Execute well and make
sure everybody knows you did so, then ramp up your rate for the next gig.
Repeat as necessary.

Good luck!

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davismwfl
I'd say if the $35 is a fair wage in your home country than use this job as a
starting point. If it was me and that was at least a reasonable wage in
Brazil, then I would use this company to gain some credibility and negotiate
with them not for more money, but for the opportunity to use them as a US
based reference for more work. Doing this will help you secure additional work
and let you increase yours rates as you go.

I have this argument with a lot of people in the US, where I am at. They feel
because San Francisco based contractors charge $225/hr or more sometimes, that
it should be the same in their area. Generally they use the argument that the
contractor out there is no smarter or better than they are. Frankly, it goes
based off what the market will bare in the area you are working and the area
the company is located combined. That is why you don't see large contracting
firms with one standard rate, they tailor it based on location, service and
perceived corporate value.

Also, you asked about charging by the week instead. I am a huge fan of this,
charge by the week, agree to a reasonable deliverable each week and then you
control your hours significantly more. It also stops the extra scrutiny of
your invoices where many times the accounting group will push projects to
shave fractions of an hour to save themselves cash. A flat fixed weekly rate
is easy for them to budget, pay and removes most of that extra scrutiny.
Lastly, if you switch to weekly, just remember that if you make a promise for
that week, you have to deliver no matter what the hours you work are; and if
that isn't going to be possible, you need to communicate the issue as far in
advance of that week as possible with specifics to realign expectations.

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gexla
It's not so much about technical ability as it is the ability to sell. Build
up your brand and you increase your value in the eyes of others. The best
paying clients may not even know what Ruby/PHP/JS is.

One of your disadvantages right now is that you can't meet people face to face
in the U.S. That doesn't mean you can't charge good rates, but this removes a
certain group of clients who require this.

In some cases you have little choice but to charge $100+ per hour. If you live
in Sydney, Los Angeles, New York and any other crazy expensive city, then
charging these rates would be expected because everything else is crazy
expensive also. People know how much it costs to live in that city.

However, it still comes down to sales. Always be networking. Always be looking
for new clients. Always be raising your rates as you keep the sales machine
going. You mentioned only one client, try landing a bunch more.

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iknight
You've got to be wary of the cheapskate. In my experience, its traditional for
american headquartered companies to view non-american workers as second class.

You are worth what someone is willing to pay and you will find someone whom is
less ridiculous with a starting rate.

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dirkdk
working with offshore devs is really hard. You might be as smart as somebody
that is worth a $100, but your being so far away is going to make you less
effective hence worth less money. Or offer to come to the US on a visa that is
really hard to get and work the first 3 months from their office before you go
back home.

