
Ask HN: Should I apply for jobs that I don't fit 100% - jamesmp98
For example I&#x27;m looking at a developer &#x2F; analyst job (entry level) that&#x27;s rather niche. I fit many requirements, but the job posting asks for experience in super specific software (Rockwell Factory Talk Production Center  to be specific). I&#x27;m not familiar with the software, but have no doubts that I can pick up anything quickly. Is it worth applying in positions like these?
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ramses0
It's their job to say "no", and your job to submit your application.

I would recommend against obvious mismatches (ie: 10yr experience v. 1yr), but
if you're hitting 50%+, and especially 75%+ of advertised requirements, then
it's not a bad thing to submit your resume.

~~~
jamesmp98
What about 2yr vs 4yr?

~~~
kkirsche
I'd say that type of thing is fine. Some count university or freelance
projects towards the experience rankings and even if not it doesn't hurt to
ask, worst they will do is say no

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Humdeee
Yes. In fact, I would advise against applying to roles where you fit every
bullet point. Especially as entry level, where's the new challenges going to
come from? Look for a role that's going to test you. Expand your knowledge
bubble a bit more and go for roles that fit some percentage below 100% that
you are comfortable with.

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frandroid
Job postings are wishlists. Especially in this hypercompetitive market,
employers will be happy to find a dev with 2/3rds of requirements. The more
varied experience you have, the less having all the skills listed matters
because you've shown you can learn things.

Especially with super specific skills which are unlikely to known by many
people... It's either the main requirement and you have no chance in hell if
you don't have it, and anyone with that skill will get the job regardless of
their other skills, or it's something you can learn on the job and they just
put it out there as a plus for people who can be onboarded faster.

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wtvanhest
Many people are saying yes, and I agree, but have an additional point.

If a job has a specific piece of software listed, i.e. Salesforce CRM, google
the painpoints or ask people who do it ahead of time. When someone in the
interview asks you about it, dont say "I CAN LEARN ANYTHING!", say.... "I
understand the learning curve is hard because of X, but I'll just have to put
the time in to pick it up quickly".

~~~
cookiecaper
Yes, speaking intelligently about the company and the technologies listed in
the ad is important. You can do this after a couple hours of research. Make
sure you study up before your interview.

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stephengillie
It's like jobs that ask for "Chef, Ansible, _and_ Puppet". A recruiter
explained these are usually a typo s/and/or, where they're looking for that
type of automation experience. A good rule of thumb is to apply when you can
do 50% to 80% of the job. Also, find if they're looking for someone to "grow
into the job", or a SME to take over ongoing projects.

Recruiters are almost always non-technical - when they start to learn what we
do, they become us, and find their own jobs. They are more likely to get lost
in the "alphabet soup" of acronyms we treat as a "techie cant". And the hiring
manager might not have been clear in the job posting. Best to get it directly
from the source.

Your resume is a key to unlock the first few interview loops, where you can
actually talk to people, find what they're looking for, and customize your
pitch so you meet their current needs. Remember that companies are run by
humans, not machines. Almost every hiring process is going to be steeped in
NIH and defensiveness.

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dnackoul
It's definitely worth it. The longer and more specific the list of
requirements gets, the less likely it is that any one person meets all of
them. Recruiters actually have a funny term for such a person, a Purple
Squirrel.
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_squirrel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_squirrel))

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inputcoffee
Yes you should.

1\. The descriptions are often incomplete or emphasize the wrong skills.

2\. Needs change

3\. You may have some skills they don't know they need

4\. There might be no one else out there who meets 100% of the specs as
written.

Also, read this:

[https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-
unless...](https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless-
theyre-100-qualified)

~~~
philsnow
I upvoted you because you kind of buried the "women don't apply for jobs they
aren't a perfect fit for" link at the end. It's really important.

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ascendantlogic
As others have said, the answer is yes. It is so rare that someone will meet
every listed "requirement" on a job posting. In the best case scenarios the
companies are shooting for the moon in terms of what candidates they'd like.
In the worst case scenarios they know no one can measure up and use the lack
of fit as leverage in salary negotiations. Either way you should apply and see
if they interview/make an offer.

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iaw
> I'm not familiar with the software, but have no doubts that I can pick up
> anything quickly.

I know what I can pick up quickly and I know what would be a new paradigm for
me. You give them an honest estimate about how long it will take to ramp up on
their specific software and you'll be fine.

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sevensor
Who's to say what's going through the mind of the person who wrote that job
advertisement? If it sounds like work you'd like to do, it couldn't hurt to
submit an application. If you don't hear back, you're not what they were
looking for. The fact that you don't have what they posted for may be a deal
breaker, but then again, it may not.

As a word of caution, a lot of overly-specific job postings are written with
an internal hire in mind. HR departments often require that a public posting
be made, but the manager seeking to fill the position writes it in such a way
that it's basically impossible for an external applicant to satisfy the
requirements. Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing, so you might as well
apply.

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itamarst
Yes, and to add to what others said: in cover letter say "I can do X and Y and
Z and I'm a quick learner too", then give a real-world example of learning
something new quickly. This will help reduce the perceived risk.

Applying for a job is a marketing exercise, you're trying to convince them
that _you_ are the specialized person they need. So if you're missing one
specialized skill they mention, try to find another to emphasize... ideally
one that other candidates don't. More here:
[https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/01/19/specialist-vs-
genera...](https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/01/19/specialist-vs-generalist/)

------
tboyd47
Most of the job hunting advice I've read (in books like "The Hidden Job
Market" and "What Color is Your Parachute") suggests finding your
niche/passion first and then looking _beyond_ posted jobs. So instead of
blasting your resume to every job post that's halfway relevant (which everyone
else is doing) you are basically pinpointing your dream job and networking
your way into it.

The reason why job posts like the one you're talking about have such specific
requirements is because they get 100s of applications for each role and have
to have some way to filter them.

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gozur88
Absolutely. You should apply to any job 1) you want and 2) you have some
chance of getting. Of course it's likely this job is already "wired" for
someone who already works there, and they're only posting it because their
hiring process says they have to. But even if that's the case, it's not
impossible the proverbial lightening will strike and you'll get it anyway.

We had a job opening that was opened specifically for a contractor we wanted
to hire. But the guy messed something up (drug test, interview, background
check, etc) and someone from the outside got the job.

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doke01
Of course you should. You should be looking for a job you can grow into, not a
job you fit perfectly today. Any company worth it's salt knows this, although
some HR reps don't get the message. If they aren't interested in you because
you don't match their unicorn list, it's probably not going to be a place you
would enjoy working at.

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tpurves
Great question. Following not apply exactly to OP, but for female or HNers or
anyone who writes job descriptions and values diversity... We recently
discovered this is one of those subtle things that can trip-up diverse hiring.
Came up as one of the biggest revelations in a recent diversity and inclusion
workshop at my company. A senior-level man was explaining how we would _never_
apply to a job where he had all the qualifications, because to him that "would
just be a lateral move" what would he gain or learn from this new role? At
which point several women were astonished to hear this as it had apparently
never something they would have considered to apply for a job they weren't
fully confident they had 100% of the qualifications.

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refurb
I've seen people land jobs that clearly don't fit the requirements in the job
description. The job description is usually shaped by HR, not the hiring
manager alone. And they are just guidelines unless stated others (i.e. "
_must_ have more than 5 years experience").

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amorphid
The short version is yes, it is worth applying. If you're trying to get into a
niche market, there will only be so many opportunities available. If you only
apply to things for which you feel qualified, you may eliminate your chances
altogether.

Let's look at it from the employer's perspective. The employer doesn't
maintain a blacklist of "bad match" applicants. The employer simply has a yes,
no, and maybe pile. If you are a yes, you get the interview. If you are a
maybe, you get the interview if there aren't enough applicants in the yes
pile. Everyone in the no pile simply doesn't make it, but could a yes or maybe
for a different position.

My big break into software development was because no one else was in the yes
pile, and I the strongest (maybe the only) maybe.

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hinfaits
Consider actively inspecting each "requirement" for relative importance.

For example, I recently read a job posting where "experience with subdomains"
was sandwiched between "required 2 years exp with rails" and "postgresql". For
people who haven't touched domain configuration, working with subdomains and
basic DNS configurations is an absolutely trivial task.

So perhaps the missing requirement is actually something that could be picked
up in a matter of minutes and isn't a deal breaker nor relatively important.

Regardless, you should apply.

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cookiecaper
Yes.

Job descriptions never encapsulate everything, either completely or
necessarily accurately. They were just written by some guy, and it's amazing
how bad a lot of these people are at the hiring/job search process.

This is especially true for entry level. This means they don't expect you to
hit the ground running. If your skills are related, you absolutely should
apply.

You should also ignore most "x years" requirements. Just apply to the right
class: junior, mid, or senior. Start applying for senior when you think you're
a mid-mid.

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rajeshp1986
Yes, that will give you a chance to grow professionally. Doing same things
even in new job is a safe bet but you will stop growing you career. Over a
career of 20-25 years you should play different roles and jumping into jobs
for which you are not 100% prepared will give you motivation to acquire those
skills more quickly than other people. You will notice that after some time
because you worked on different things, you will have much broad perspective
on anything compared to your peers.

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misotaur
Yes,don`t limit yourself-unless applying to Google or similar(not even
then),many companies`s HR departments are a joke with job postings by people
with very little technical knowledge.

~~~
jasoncartwright
The job I got at Google wasn't the one I applied for - but then they got me
back when a much more suitable role in the same team came round.

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1001101
As my hockey coach would say, you miss 100% of shots you don't take. The
market right now is very tight, and hiring managers should know to hire on
potential. Make sure you research the software ahead of time and try to
analogize with something you've done before: "it seems like it's X that I've
worked with before." I've found that works in cases like this. Go for it. At
the very least, if you get in the door, it's interview practice.

~~~
Humdeee
> As my hockey coach would say, you miss 100% of shots you don't take.

What was it like being coached by Wayne Gretzky?

~~~
emodendroket
I'll bet a whole bunch of people repeated that one without attribution,
especially if they were stinking hockey coaches.

~~~
1001101
Our coaches were pretty solid - this was a prep program coached by former NHL
players/coaches that has turned out 68 draft picks in the last 20 years, incl
2 first overall - players for whom the maxim may apply :). Context was a
discussion of save pct as a function of hole 1-5. 5 hole was the best, not
taking a shot was worst. Yes, there are certainly nuances to this, but, taking
the simplified case, I think the metaphor fits.

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savethefuture
Yes, apply for jobs you do not fit 100% into, onsite training will bring you
up to speed on anything you are unfamiliar with. All companies will train
their employees if need be.

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mwfunk
Absolutely. The requirements in tech job postings are usually the result of a
game of telephone between the hiring manager and an HR person. They often
don't even reflect what the hiring manager actually wants.

If you see a job posting that looks perfect except for some oddball
requirement you don't meet, always go for it anyway. Much of the time the
people interviewing you don't even know what the job posting contained, much
less agree with the oddball requirements.

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beamatronic
If you have not learned this already through experience, you would be shocked,
SHOCKED, to find out what you can get in this world by simply asking for it.

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citrusx
Absolutely. I can tell you from experience, on both sides of this fence, that
hiring managers ask for the moon, and rarely get everything. But, that's not
the point. A manager wants staff that can do the job as necessary, and you can
prove that you're able to during interviews - even if you only match a few of
the "bullet points" in the hire req.

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tombert
I don't suggest lying, but there are plenty of times that the "requirements"
are really just a suggestion. There's no law saying that they have to call you
if they think you're not qualified, and there's no law saying that have to
accept you after an interview.

When I'm looking for a job, I basically apply to any posting that looks
interesting to me.

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withdavidli
What others have said, even take it a step further. Look up the company and
that software will Likely ID the team members on LinkedIn. Message one of
them/manager with your interest and resume. Hopefully that'll shorten the
waiting process or hoping that a recruiter will review your application.

~~~
cookiecaper
Yes, backdoor HR at every opportunity. They serve no purpose whatsoever to the
applicant, and almost always just get in the way (throwing away your resume
because of their personal biases around education, what they think looks good,
etc.).

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irvingprime
Once, I saw an ad that HR wrote (with my input) looking for someone I would
then train. Judging from the ad HR wrote, I was not qualified for the job.

Don't take that stuff too seriously. If you think you can do the job that
needs done, apply. The worst that can happen is they'll say no.

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tswingleton
Follow the 70/30 rule. You should be able to do around 70% of the job with
knowledge you already have.

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adenner
Yes. What is the worst that can happen? If you don't apply you won't get the
job either.

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ColinWright
If you want the job, apply for it.

If you don't want the job, don't apply for it.

Show them that you will add value to the company, and that you are keen to
engage with the work, the product, the customers' requirements, and getting
things done.

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LeicaLatte
Artefacts of hiring like resumes, job postings are broken. Job postings
especially are a mess and bad ones drive people away instead of attracting
talent. Don't read much into it. Apply.

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steve_g
Unless you're applying to Rockwell, you'll be using, configuring, or talking
to ProductionCentre. It's end user software. You'll figure it out.

Apply.

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SatvikBeri
Yes. You know how product requirements are 70% accurate at best, and usually
closer to 30%? Job requirements are the same.

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buro9
YES.

Just put more info into a cover letter to say what you're interested in doing.

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franze
Yes

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pryelluw
Yes.

