
Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook - maxshmax
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/zuckerberg-effectively-defends-right-of-holocaust-deniers-to-be-heard-on-facebook-2018-07-18
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arcsin
It's remarkable to me that people think this is a bad thing. I feel like
everyone agreed freedom of speech is a good thing until one day I woke up and
they didn't. I don't mean whether or not it would be unconstitutional to
censor certain topics on facebook. But facebook is a one of the largest
communication platforms today. It's bad enough that Zuckerberg actually has
the power to decide what can and can't be communicated on that platform, at
least he's deciding not to use that power (at least in this case).

~~~
crazydoggers
I think the issue that we are all grappling with is the amount, speed of
dissemination, reach, and substance of all the speech that Facebook allows is
something humanity has never grappled with.

We generally agree that speech should be free, but obviously we put limits on
it. For instance we do not allow yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. The
reason is that people are directly harmed by that speech, and it has no
upside.

It’s perfectly reasonable to consider much of what goes on, on Facebook in the
same vein. If holocaust denial, or other types of hate speech or
misinformation are spread rapidly, and cause moral panic, possibly harm to
others, should we not consider limiting it?

It’s not a black and white issue of “speech should be free at all times”.

Facebook and social media is fundamentally changing (has changed) how humanity
communicates. Thinking though and questioning the ethics and moral obligations
of those services is quite important.

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SamReidHughes
Obviously we should -- particularly for people that advocate for abortion,
whose voices need to be suppressed. The cost of their speech is too high.

~~~
dmode
Abortion is same as Holocaust denial ? One is a medical issue and the other
one is literally denying facts that is used as propaganda to recruit
extremists.

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exabrial
Some people will say stupid things with their freedom of expression. They're
still entitled to their freedoms, lest we become like them. This breaks my
heart that we have to have these conversations.

~~~
ljw1001
What makes you think that freedom of expression means more than you can say
what you want without going to jail?

It doesn't mean people have to give you a platform to spread propaganda, and
it never has. Want to start a social network for holocaust deniers? Go right
ahead.

~~~
exabrial
Because... _that 's literally what it means_.

The internet is not a crowded theater. It's just text on a screen.

~~~
ljw1001
No. That's not what it means.

Facebook is a private enterprise. It's not the Internet. You want to spout
hate on the internet, fine. Get a server and host your pages. Does Facebook
have to let you do it on their site? No.

You may have to shout fire in a crowded theater to get arrested, but you can
and probably will get kicked out for standing up and screaming about niggers
and kikes. That's how civilization works.

~~~
exabrial
Literally a straw man attack. Facebook is a private platform and they can do
whatever they want with their business. I was speaking specifically about
freedom of expression.

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pm24601
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts"

Especially, if the fact is real. Facebook wants to be a media company
([http://fortune.com/2016/12/23/zuckerberg-media-
company/](http://fortune.com/2016/12/23/zuckerberg-media-company/)) except
when they don't.

A media company has a responsibility to accuracy.

~~~
droidist2
I feel like this is similar to the death penalty debate though, where in
response to the concern about executing innocent people, you hear "we'll only
use it when it's a clear cut case" but either it ends up being used more than
that, or it'd be used so rarely that it's not worth carving out a special case
for it. How many things are on the clear cut level of Holocaust denial? And
who decides what's clear cut enough to be excluded from free speech?

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retox
>clear cut level of Holocaust denial

'Denial' isn't clear cut at all. You could deny it by saying it didn't happen
at all, or that it happened in a different location, or by different people,
or that the number of dead doesn't match the stated total(s). Is it denial to
disbelieve a specific person was killed, or was killed in a specific manner?
Is it denial to disbelieve some of the particulars of someones story? Free
speech means exactly that; you're free to speak or you aren't.

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phobosdeimos
Not his call, Facebook has to follow the law.

If I were him I would stop this freedom of expression stuff: nobody cares.
Users don't actually want the crazies, religious nutjobs and political
fighting. It almost killed Reddit and Twitter.

~~~
ljw1001
The extremists are what keep Reddit and Twitter in business. People find all
the fighting entertaining. This has much more to do with money than with human
rights.

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diogenescynic
Facebook is disgusting. I really hope they fail somehow. They have truly made
society so much worse off.

