
What is a 'Successful' Start-Up? - gqgy
Excluding the financial incentives and rewards associated with a successful start-up (i.e. acquisition price, IPO value, etc.), what other events or factors would allow you to feel that your start-up is a 'success'?<p>In other words, what is 'success' within the realm of a start-up (excluding $$$)?<p>I personally feel that a start-up's success is measured on its number of active users and its impact on other businesses and/or the world/society.<p>What is 'success' for you? I'm curious to see how other entrepreneurs view 'success'.
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epi0Bauqu
I've been thinking about this lately myself. I have come to believe there are
different levels of success in a startup, which could also be viewed as
milestones in a way. Particular startups will only get to a certain level, but
attaining any level is a success to some degree. Perhaps, they aren't really
levels, because that insinuates a linear process. You can tell from this
rambling that I haven't really nailed this thought down yet...I hope someone
can build upon it. But off the top of my head:

Level 1: Actually make something that is functional.

Level 2: Actually have someone test it.

Level 3: Actually have someone buy it/use it for real.

Level 4: Actually have the users from the previous Level maintain their use,
i.e. convert to real users.

Level 5: Get to some level of profitability.

Level 6: Make a decent amount of money.

Level 7: Make a lot of money, i.e. from an exit event or just large value of
company, etc.

I know this includes financial stuff, which you specifically didn't want.
However, I think this is inextricably tied to the higher levels of startup
success. Obviously in the lower levels, some people may have other metrics
beyond other use, like organizational metrics such as hiring employees or
making something that grows beyond themselves, i.e. can be passed on.

~~~
gqgy
That's a great point of view. Although I excluded money in my question, I am
aware that that can only be done in a hypothetical world. I also agree that
there are different levels of success. I suppose it is very reasonable to view
success as a process rather than an end. The various levels of success which
you outline makes sense, however I was wondering whether there was a level
beyound money (i.e. Level 7 in your outline) for other entrepreneurs.

I have not yet reached a "Level 7" in my endeavors as an entrepreneur, but I
have a feeling that it goes beyond "Level 7".

I guess my suspicion comes from observing those that have already reached
"success" in the start-up world. For example, why would PG still work after
reaching the elusive "Level 7"/MONEY, why would Steve Jobs keep working,
etc....

~~~
epi0Bauqu
First I just want to point out that there are many different levels of being
rich. I know PG said this in one of his essays somewhere, and I have said it
on this forum too. And it is true. I know this isn't what you were asking in
reply, but there are certainly different levels above Level 7 (in my original
scheme) that are just higher levels of monetary attainment. And that is what
motivates some people to go from say Level 7 to Level 7a, i.e. they see 1M vs
10M vs 50M or whatever as different levels.

But if I understand your reply correctly, I think you are saying, what is
beyond all those monetary levels? That is, assume you reach a monetary level
that is enough for you financially, what is beyond that? (This is why I just
stopped at Level 7 in my scheme btw.)

Having achieved some degree of Level 7 myself, all I can say is that startups
are what I like to do (at least for now). I want to start all over again and
climb up the Levels because each level is rewarding to me its own right. A
different project brings different users and solving different needs, and I
guess I just like that. So in this scheme, I guess I think of it sort of as a
reset for myself; not a circle exactly, but a new path.

Other things beyond Level 7 are charity, prestige/celebrity, and doing things
with bigger impact. Steve Jobs is obviously a celebrity, and I would assume he
sees that as part of his success. PG seems to be in the bigger things
category, hoping that YC will really change the world in a big way. Maybe he
can jump in here and speak for himself though. I remember an article on here a
while back (but can't find it right now) about what people do after exit
events. It had these categories, but it was a little more thought out, if I
recall correctly. Maybe someone can provide that link.

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ratsbane
Changing the way people work or behave - for the better - or give them more
understanding about things they can change.

\- Meetup.com is getting people out and into social situations with lots of
benefits \- Google maps helps people to find things more quickly without
getting lost \- Ebay and Craigslist changed the whole value structure of
entire classes of goods and enabled a lot of people to do useful work and earn
money they couldn't have before. \- Reddit and related sites are the office-
worker's version of talk radio. I'm thinking they're going to have a
noticeable affect on politics, hopefully for the better (besides creating a
significant drop in productivity of the average programmer.) \- Google.

I'm not sure how social networking sites fit in all of that.

But the revolution isn't anywhere near over yet. \- Government
[http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/07/why_congress_ne.ht...](http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/07/why_congress_ne.html)
\- Medicine - Portable medical records, better understanding of outcomes and
genetics can make us all healthier. \- Business - People waste way too much
time in offices moving data from one place to another and then trying to
balance back to the original. Businesses go broke and partners sue each other
because they didn't understand or keep track of or share information. People
waste money and time because they didn't understand trends unfolding around
them.

And there's a lot more.

And then there's all that money, too.

~~~
yamada
Well, if you can change the way people behave, you're beyond success. You have
the ability to literally change the world. That's god-like. That transcends
success.

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rokhayakebe
When you start hearing "How did you do it?" If you gotta ask, then you are
clearly not.

~~~
gqgy
can you elaborate on that?

~~~
rms
You've succeeded once people start asking you how you succeeded.

~~~
gqgy
That may be one of the indicators (and a shallow indicator at that) of
success, but I'd be hard-pressed to use it as a threshold or a point of
satisfaction in terms of success. Wouldn't a start-up have much more meaning
to a founder? Normally, when one comes up with an idea, it addresses a need in
the world or a better way to do things.

Others have asked me for advice, but in no way do I feel that I have
accomplished my mission. There are greater and more substantial objectives
other than being asked advices or receiving praise.

My question was, what is 'success'?

~~~
rms
OK, then success is something that is very personal. You've gotta define it
for yourself. I wonder if you're undergoing an existential crisis, having
succeeded at some superficial or not so superficial level but feeling there
has to be something more out there that you're missing. There's nothing more
out there. Life is only what you make it, just like success.

To some people, success is raising a happy family. To others, it is making
manager or director or executive as a cog in a Fortune 500 machine. Most of us
here want to start a successful company and make a nice profit or reach a
liquidity event.

I would consider myself having succeeded if I can do any or all of the
following:

1: Make the GUI that I outlined in my first YC application, an interface
intended to make the internet really easy to use for non-traditional users of
computers.

2: Cure a major illness or create a major technological breakthrough through
my own research lab.

3: Take over Equatorial Guinea.

~~~
muriithi
Why Equatorial Guinea?

~~~
rms
It's a target that Western governments want to fall and it has an enormous
amount of oil for its small population,

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trekker7
Success is when you've significantly improved your users' lives. Great success
is when you do this with tons of users. Marlboro is a failure. Wikipedia is a
great success.

~~~
yamada
Marlboro is not a failure. It improved the lives of hundreds of millions of
people by helping them live the dream of being a handsome cowboy while they
rode the subway to work.

------
sgoraya
My interpretation of success is when a client/user says, 'Thanks, it works
great!' or 'Great job!'

Hearing that sincerely puts a smile on my face and makes me feel all warm and
fuzzy inside

~~~
chengmi
Does that warm and fuzzy feeling pay the bills every month? =)

In all seriousness, I agree that having happy clients is a strong indicator of
success. But for myself, success is more than just being at the front of the
pack.

Success is having the satisfaction of knowing you put out your full effort
(and then some). Success is personal struggle and personal growth, regardless
of the problem or project.

~~~
falsestprophet
As far as I can tell if a warm and fuzzy feeling pays your bills, you are
probably going to jail.

------
bharath
A lot of the comments seem to focus on influencing the lives of lots of users.
That would pretty much cut out the entire Enterprise startup category wherein
a few 1000 IT admins are enough to take a company to profitability. Of course,
employees of the company end up becoming indirect users. As to what defines
success, the following quote works well for me:

"When all is said and done, the journey is the reward." \- Randy Komisar

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webwright
As a business, I tend to think success has to have SOME connection with
revenue/profit... Unless you want to bet your success on your ability to sell
a profitless venture.

I'd say when you have customers who want to keep being customers is a pretty
good measure of success. Customers are the people who pay the bills... So if
you have a free service, it means advertisers who are reaching an audience
they care about and getting a good return on their investment.

I find the emphasis on 'users' to be a bit too simple, and decidedly not very
bubble-proof. It's probably also important to qualify who your users are and
how much you know about them. 100,000 users that you have no information about
aren't very valuable.

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prime0196
Success is defined by the goals you set for your startup. Some people may
create a startup in hopes to match their current salary at their "real job",
so that they can quit. Once that goal is attained they consider their venture
a success. Others have higher, loftier goals (go IPO) and if they don't
achieve that goal then they feel that were unsuccessful and thus continue
creating/joining other startups and ventures until that goal is reached. One
man's failure is another man's success.

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elad
If you had/are having fun and don't regret for a minute having left your day
job to start your startup, then it's a success. Of course, it's best to
measure that at least a year into the thing.

------
dawie
google

~~~
yamada
Good point! But playing devil's advocate, "IBM!" Touche!

------
yamada
When corrupt old men in Europe who all know each other from P2 meetings agree
that you have to be assassinated, then you know you've succeeded. That or if
you can make 10,000 people in Silicon Valley slam their heads into a wall and
shout, "F^#% ME!!! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?!?!?!?"

~~~
ratsbane
Or if you can make 10,000 people in Silicon Valley call their lawyers and say
"BUT I DID THINK OF THAT..."

~~~
yamada
Ya I guess if you can monetize an idea 10,000 entrepreneurs had before you
than you can call it a success as well. The smug sense of satisfaction will
keep you warm for decades to come.

