
Ask HN: How to get started with paying side projects? - zorba
I am full time software developer with 15 years of industry experience. At this point in my career it seems like I can do more than what I do at my day job. What are some of the ways to get started on software side projects to have fun and for an additional income stream?
======
charlieirish
It's great that you're ready to take the leap in to making profitable side
projects. Typically most side-projects fall in to two categories:

1\. They never launch

2\. They never make any money

If you can avoid these two pitfalls, you will likely achieve one or more of a)
earning; b) learning; c) increasing your 'luck surface area'. So, it's a good
opportunity if you can do it. There are plenty of reasons why you wouldn't
have launched including:

\- you kept your idea secret

\- you tried to do too much

\- you underestimated the areas that you're not skilled at

\- you assumed that if you built it they would come

\- More here: [http://www.startupclarity.com/blog/launch-first-product-
what...](http://www.startupclarity.com/blog/launch-first-product-what-not-to-
do/)

The reasons for not making any money, or rather not making enough money that
you wish to pursue it are multitudinous but include:

\- you didn't choose a profitable product idea

\- you underestimated the slow ramp of death:
[http://businessofsoftware.org/2013/02/gail-goodman-
constant-...](http://businessofsoftware.org/2013/02/gail-goodman-constant-
contact-how-to-negotiate-the-long-slow-saas-ramp-of-death/)

\- you charged too little

\- you didn't solve a problem for people who were willing to pay you

\- More here: [http://www.startupclarity.com/blog/find-profitable-
product-i...](http://www.startupclarity.com/blog/find-profitable-product-
ideas/)

I hope that helps and Good Luck!

~~~
augustflanagan
I think this is a great answer that covers the common pitfalls with launching
any side-project. I would add another often repeated, but important, point to
the list - try to build something that solves a problem you're having. Earlier
this year I launched a side-project[1] that has become profitable and is
continuing to grow.

The impetus for building it was that I was trying to find a good solution to
my own problem and wasn't happy with existing solutions. I knew that it was a
niche product, but I figured at the very least if I built this _I_ would use
it. Before building it I also talked to a couple of friends who said "Oh,
yeah, I'd pay you for that." That was enough validation for me to spend a
weekend building a basic version with a friend of mine. After that I started
using it immediately and had those two friends sign up (and pay). Their
feedback, and my own usage, gave me the motivation to keep improving the
product.

The other thing I would mention is expectations setting. The "build it and
they will come" mentality is really hard to overcome when you're excited about
your side-project. You figure you will turn it on and people will immediately
start signing up. In my case it was several weeks (maybe even closer to two
months) before I had a paying customer other than those first two friends.
It's easy to be discouraged during that time and completely abandon your
project. Have a basic marketing plan, stick with it, and don't set your
expectations too high. It will take time.

1 [https://cronitor.io](https://cronitor.io)

~~~
amelius
> try to build something that solves a problem you're having

Why not try to build something that solves a problem _somebody else_ is
having? They could be your first customer!

~~~
perlgeek
Because it's so easy to misunderstand a problem. If it's a problem you're
having yourself, you'll likely notice pretty quickly when you're solving it in
the wrong way (or not all, merely thinking you are solving it).

~~~
amelius
Good point. But unfortunately, my own problems cannot be solved by mere
programming :)

~~~
infinite8s
There's nothing in your life that couldn't be solved with a bit of automation?

------
petercooper
My business is formed of once side projects that gained traction and I doubled
down on. My "in hindsight" advice is to choose whether a project is to be
optimized _mainly_ for fun, learning or money ahead of time - each radically
changes how you (should) begin.

The first two are kinda easy, but if it's "money", _work from the money back
to the idea rather than figuring out how to make money from a certain idea._
Who's spending money, where, and on what? What sort of people do you have
exposure to (on Twitter, HN, wherever)? How could you improve on something
people already spend money on? Etc.

~~~
bliti
You bring a valid point. Who you have exposure to is very important. Build
solutions to the people you can access. One thing that helped broaden exposure
was to begin socializing through relatives or friends that are business
owners. It allowed for a horizontal chain of introductions and conversations
to happen within a specific group of people that are of interest to me. It
does not take much socializing to start talking about topics that bring up
software. Video games, apps, phones, etc., are a great way to steer the
conversation towards their software needs. Without being inconsiderate at all.
After all, you want to help them improve the business.

------
rachelandrew
I think picking the right idea is the most important thing. A lot of the
"never launched" side projects I see were just too big an idea to do as a side
project. You need something relatively small, that you can build and launch
quickly in a short amount of time. Find a problem that people are willing to
pay to have solved, but that is relatively small in terms of time to develop a
solution that will solve the problem.

You can do this as a side project because there are lots of things that can
make a great side project, bring in a few 1000 dollars a month or more, but
wouldn't be interesting to someone trying to launch a business they want to
scale.

Look at tools and plugins for software people use already, especially software
that has a reasonable pricetag and that people us in their businesses.
Anything you can sell to people for whom time is money is a really good start!

I launched a side project 5 and a half years ago which went on to become our
entire business. I wrote about that, in a way that I hope will help other
people do the same, in my book The Profitable Side Project:
[http://rachelandrew.co.uk/books/the-profitable-side-
project](http://rachelandrew.co.uk/books/the-profitable-side-project)

------
cykho
1 - build an online portfolio of work (if you don't have one do personal/free
projects to build it.

2 - go on elance/odesk to find some paying clients (pay is low, but easy to
find). You can also use this to try different things and discover what kind of
work you enjoy best. you can also call some technology consulting firms - they
are always looking for talent.

3 - specialize in that area. tailor your website/blog to talk exclusively
about that technology. between the inbound from your site and client base from
consultant you'll easily be able to build an overwhelming referral stream.

~~~
atrilla
That's precisely the kind of approach I'm seeking with my new blog on AI and
data analysis: [http://ai-maker.com/](http://ai-maker.com/)

------
bchjam
Well, do you want to challenge yourself technically or are you more interested
in making money? I think that the approach would be different in both cases
(and following the money you may still feel unfulfilled intellectually).

For me, I wasn't sure if I still wanted to program, so I went back to the
things that got me excited when I started (math models of perception) and I
fell in love with it all over again. Now my dilemma is turning that back
around and actually working on what I'm most passionate about in a full-time
setting. In the meantime, hobbying it is better than not doing it at all

~~~
atrilla
As it is discussed elsewhere here, challenging yourself technically to build a
portfolio may also lead you to making money, e.g., from consulting. I'm
offering this service for free at [http://ai-maker.com/](http://ai-maker.com/)
as long as problems are openly discussed in the blog. For private consulting,
a budget.

------
mandeepj
Please refer to this thread -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8844083](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8844083)

------
steakejjs
In my opinion the best way to start a profitable side projects is to limit the
scope of the project.

I fall into the category of starting too many things that I don't finish. I've
recently realized that the size of the things I was working in was just way
too big, especially since When working on a side project you are working
around your life schedule.

After limiting the size of my projects I've found I am completing all of them

------
kidlogic
Take my advice with a grain-of-salt - I am not a strong developer. However, I
do have experience in the Operations side of small businesses.

Since this will be a side-project (and your time is limited), try automating
as many aspects of the business from the beginning. I am not implying that you
should BUILD automation into the onboarding process, but use services like
Zapier to make your life a bit easier.

------
walshemj
You also need to check with a lawyer to see if you will run into legal
problems with your day job and to check what IP implications there are.

~~~
ExpiredLink
AFAIK, in the US of A the employer usually owns _all_ the work done by his
slaves, err, employees. Your side project may pay your company, not you.

~~~
walshemj
Well that is the default case in jurisdictions based on anglo saxon common law
- but if I had come out and said that I would have got down voted.

All Work "related" to your day I should have said.

------
heintzsight
Ambition is a form of hope. By definition, you have to be an optimist to start
anything. So it's important to counter this with a healthy sense of realism
because the truth of the matter is that calling it "difficult" is an
understatement.

Know your business model. Know how many steps it takes for you to monetize
anything. Know your audience.

I would also say it's important to find good advisors. A good accountant/CPA
is very important and it may be worthwhile to meet with a good lawyer. We
created CEA (certified entrepreneurship advisor -
[https://ceanow.org](https://ceanow.org)) after seeing how much good advice is
so needed and have courses on business planning and entrepreneurship.

------
tjlivesey
Choose something that interests you and something you want to use yourself if
possible. If you can also try out a new language or some new technologies
along the way, even better. If you build something with no expectations of
making money, then everything is a bonus and you have had fun and maybe picked
up some new skills. I would say for most side projects, the majority of the
value is not gained from the revenue. Having said that, completing something
and putting it out there is the most important part. Good luck!

~~~
atrilla
Getting better at something is always good. Like The Joker said at the return
of the dark knight: if you're good at something never do it for free. So
there's always an avenue to make money.

------
jqm
Getting started with side projects is the easy part. Getting finished is the
real trick. And the payment part seems to come largely after the second step
(if at all).

I build small web apps for companies on the side. Little data management
things the office can share... something like you might make with Access but
obviously a lot nicer, more customized and networked. I host them also and
charge a monthly fee. I don't think this is a way to get stinking rich. But it
keeps me busy after work.

------
leesalminen
Keep your eyes open, ears at attention and talk to all different kinds of
people.

If you really pay attention, something will stick out at you.

You'll likely have many ideas. Research them all, come up with some kind of a
plan for each. Sit on them for a while...one of them will jump out at you.

------
wj
It sounds like the book Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling was written
specifically for you. I really enjoyed it. He also has a free ebook of his
blog posts at softwarebyrob.com.

His advice exceeds anything I could offer you.

~~~
mtaber
Disclaimer: I'm Rob's business partner in the Micropreneur Academy/Startups
for the Rest of Us/MicroConf.

I would also recommend Rob's book as a starting point. Many of the problems
people run into are mindset related and knowing what else is out there, what
things people have tried, and how they worked out is really important. Once
you realize that something is possible, you can make it a reality. But without
having concrete examples, it's difficult to make that mental leap.

I'm in the process of writing my own book on this topic called The Single
Founder Handbook.
[http://www.singlefounderhandbook.com](http://www.singlefounderhandbook.com)
that you might find useful as well. Should be available within a month, but
four areas it focuses on are Idea Generation, Filtering, Validation, and
Execution. People have a tendency to jump right to code sometimes without
thinking about whether or not the idea ticks off a bunch of specific criteria
or validating it.

I think you'd find these areas helpful.

------
jsonmez
I did a short video on this topic, since I get asked it so much.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjAf0TvrhYI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjAf0TvrhYI)

------
hackhowtofaq
[http://www.passiveincomeaid.com/](http://www.passiveincomeaid.com/) \- for
ideas

------
dmourati
Try odesk. Set a high rate and be choosy in who you work with.

------
spiritplumber
Make sure that the people who you are working for during normal hours don't
try to make predatory claims on your side-project IP, to start with. Apply the
minimum amount of violence necessary to ensure this, preferably zero.

~~~
verbin217
How would violence help ensure this in any way?

~~~
aregsarkissian
Doing zero violence insures this. I think what he means by violence is
violating company policy. If you violate it a bit by say working on your side
project during work hours then you can not ensure that you won't have problems
later.

