

Starbucks, Coffee, and Coworking - landist
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2009/06/17/starbucks-were-just-not-that-into-you-but-we-could.aspx

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Frocer
"Starbucks needs to do some corporate soul searching. Take a look at American
Express. It doesn't sell credit, it sells membership. Coca-Cola doesn't sell
soft drinks, it sells refreshment. Starbucks, what do you sell … besides
coffee? What do you stand for? Ambiance? Community? Social consciousness?
Until you figure this out, count on losing both customers and shareholders."

This is totally wrong. In my opinion, Starbucks knows exactly what they stand
for. They don't sell coffee, they sell a "lifestyle". If Starbucks were just a
shop that sells coffee, it would've never become the giant it is today. People
go to Starbucks to experience the hip, yuppie, modern ambiance. Not just for
the coffee.

~~~
mediaman
Indeed, what's so curious about this article is that Starbucks was the poster
child for selling the experience versus the coffee, and has been used in many
case studies to demonstrate exactly that point.

~~~
derefr
I think the idea is that, basically, the Starbucks "experience" is what city
life _in general_ now feels like for these people. Starbucks is no longer
differentiating on personality, because now everything else is _just like
Starbucks_. they need a new schtick.

~~~
lsb
Exactly; and ironically enough, more indie coffeeshops have opened up recently
precisely because Starbucks set their price point expectations so high that
they get good margins out of it, versus $1 drip coffee.

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jakarta
I kind of think of Starbucks as that early innovator that did a lot of
footwork, (massively) introducing something new to consumers, that was
ultimately destroyed by new entrants in the market. Think what AOL did with
home internet access.

Starbucks made coffee not just something for adults/people who work but really
brought it to a broader group of people with things like Frappuccinos. As a
result, they kind of did all the R&D for competitors like McD's and Dunkin
Donuts (along with everyone else that is coming out with iced coffee/coffee
flavored drinks).

These competitors are able to eat into Starbucks' moat and differentiate by
supplying beverages at a lower cost and supplanting it with existing food
options. It puts a company like SBUX in a tough bind and I'm not sure how
they're going to regain the oomph they once had.

~~~
edrtfgdr
They simply pretend to be a new startup. Think up a new name and a new image
to compete/compliment starbucks and open stores nearby. Only the stock
analysts need know they have the same owner.

Then all the kids who are too cool for starbucks can go to new-cool-bucks,
dispising the people who go to starbucks - while putting money in their
pocket. It's like people who are too rich to buy VW but will happily drive an
Audi.

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eddylu
Funny, I just wrote a blog post yesterday about our extreme bootstrapping ways
at Starbucks titled "Two Guys One Cup". We have free wifi because one of us
has AT&T DSL at home (and you can log in with multiple laptops at the same
time) and we sometimes bring seat cushions to make the chairs more
comfortable. <http://grubwithus.blogspot.com>

~~~
antiismist
You can get free wifi at starbucks without any AT&T setup at home. The steps:

\- buy a starbucks gift card ($5 minimum)

\- register the giftcard online

\- use the registration info when prompted when you connect to the network at
SBUX.

\- you must make at least one purchase each month on the giftcard, e.g. a tall
coffee for $1.50.

\- you can only use two MAC addresses on that card. Otherwise they'll lock
your account, but you can call and get it unlocked.

\- with said giftcard you also get free refills and free flavorings of some
type too, even if you don't use the giftcard to buy the coffee in the first
place.

I go to starbucks pretty much every day and that's how I get online there.

~~~
graywh
<http://www.starbucks.com/retail/wireless.asp>

On session per day, limited to 2 hours.

<https://www.starbucks.com/cardrewards/default.asp>

~~~
antiismist
That's the stated policy, but it hasn't been my experience. I've done many
days at waaay over 2 hours.

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pradocchia
Speaking of K-cups and single serve coffee, I recently discovered the Italian
moka pot. Wow! Simple, easy to clean, makes good coffee.

~~~
cdr
I loved my Moka for awhile, but in the end it lost out to the ease of the
k-cup machine at work. Most days I just don't want to spend 8-10 minutes
making a cup (between prep, brewing, and cleanup).

~~~
pradocchia
This is true. But, if you brew one really strong cup in the morning, you can
cut it with boiling water several times during the day to make regular
strength coffee.

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jimboyoungblood
I've been thinking about opening a cafe/coworking place in SF with some
friends.

Which of the following would make you most want to work there?

\- great coffee

\- plentiful power outlets

\- comfortable seating

\- community (presence of other hackers/entrepreneurs)

~~~
menloparkbum
Coffee, power outlets, a price that isn't ridiculous like the current co-
working spaces in SF. Maybe some sort of programming quiz to keep out the
weird "social media consultant" crowd. Also 24 hour access. Most (all?) coffee
shops in SF close too early.

~~~
patio11
_a price that isn't ridiculous_

I used to work in a (government-funded) technology incubator, and have heard
some of the discussions behind pricing spacing.

It makes no difference to the incubator whether space costs $50 a month, $200
a month, or $1,000 a month. We didn't go with $1,000 because that would make
us price-uncompetitive with other feasible options in the region. We didn't go
with $50 because we thought our core client group does not want to be bothered
by people who think $200 is a lot of money.

Looking at the diversity among people working in San Fransisco, have you
perhaps considered that the ridiculous price is designed to keep out the weird
startup crowd? From the perspective of, say, a civil engineering consultant,
an unemployed 21 year old in jeans and a T-shirt who has had three consecutive
all-nighters since his last shower might not be the ideal coworking companion.

~~~
menloparkbum
The co-working spaces in SF _are_ for the weird startup crowd. It turns out
most of them are for the weird social media consultant crowd, because that is
who runs them and they tend to be cliquey. They aren't business incubator
spaces.

I'm pretty familiar with the spaces and people who run them here. One of them
has to charge a lot because the space is really expensive. Another one has to
charge a lot because they have trouble keeping it full, which I attribute to
poor location. At yet another one, the guy is obviously making a profit
because he's in a super cheap building.

I don't think the pricing is ridiculous from the perspective of the people
running the space. They have to pass costs on. However, the people renting the
space aren't getting a good deal unless they love the community. You're just
renting a desk, which is free at the library, or a few coffee refills at any
of the myriad coffee shops in the city... and you probably live somewhere, so
you could just work at home, etc...

