
Nextbit - jonbaer
https://nextbit.com/
======
mhink
This is the most interesting part, to me:

> No barriers.

Robin comes with an unlocked SIM, so you can choose the right carrier for you.
And because we think what you run should be up to you too, we’ve made it as
easy as possible for you to customize Robin. Its unlocked bootloader and open
source drivers make it easy to load CyanogenMod or any other ROM you want and
Robin will still be under warranty.

I'm not up-to-date on my Android phones, but my impression is that this isn't
particularly common. Most of the concerns I see on this thread are complaints
about how secure it is to sync one's data on someone else's servers... but
doesn't this make it much simpler to hack around with the phone and disable
that functionality? (Or perhaps even set up syncing with one's own servers?)

~~~
foopod
Selling the phone with an unlocked bootloader seems to go against the
"Security is critical to us, and we know it is to you too" mentality.

Having an unlocked bootloader opens to the device up to far more security
vulnerabilities should it fall into the wrong hands. In some cases attacks can
be performed even if the device has full disk encryption[1].

[1] [https://www1.cs.fau.de/frost](https://www1.cs.fau.de/frost)

~~~
lern_too_spel
They almost certainly meant unlockable instead of unlocked, just like Google's
Nexus devices. This solves the security issue.

------
larssorenson
I got as far as the Security section before I had to comment. They claim they
care about data and user security by providing a fingerprint reader, which is
known to be a poor method of authentication, as well as integrating with
Google 2 Factor Authentication. They also tease about storing your, encrypted
of course, on their servers. But what about in transit? What encryption cipher
suite is used? How are the keys managed? Can I decrypt my data manually or do
I have to use their product? Can I export my keys? Also if I cared about data
security and privacy, which I do, the absolute last thing I would do is
intentionally place all of my data on third party external servers that I
didn't in some way have direct access to, behind a fingerprint reader or
Google 2FA. I think for this to be "Next Now" they need to provide more
information about something like this, especially since they claim to be
concerned about it.

~~~
sangnoir
> I think for this to be "Next Now" they need to provide more information
> about something like this, especially since they claim to be concerned about
> it.

To be fair, Apple - the self-proclaimed mobile security champion - similarly
claims to be concerned about security but does not[1] readily provide all that
information (cipher suite, key management). The results after Googling "iPhone
cipher suite" all point to non-apple domains.

Dry reading makes poor copy on any landing page, and most consumers will take
the manufacturers word for it when they claim to be "secure".

1\. [https://www.apple.com/iphone-6s/](https://www.apple.com/iphone-6s/)

------
CSDude
In short, it backs your files and apps to its servers, (like Google Photos,
but not only photos), it is the only distinctive feature they have, and I do
not think it makes it smarter than others, and honestly don't understand how
it gets "smarter every day"

~~~
gramakri
Just guessing: it could download/offload apps smartly by predicting what the
user is bound to use at a given time of day (by tracking his usage patterns).

~~~
asavadatti
Is drive space that big of a deal?

~~~
kozukumi
No. For people on a capped data plan that is just a waste of data. Much better
to buy a 32GB Micro SD for under £10. Of course that means you need a phone
with a Micro SD slot but if space is an issue for you then I highly doubt you
own a phone without a slot.

------
mickmock
"Robin has the cloud integrated right into Android OS" \- Oh my gawd!

I instantly stopped caring once I read this poetic marketing spiel.

~~~
api
Wow... they really shrank the size of a data center!

Of course I know what this actually means: your phone is now an even dumber
dumb terminal for accessing the cloud.

I personally gave up when I saw no references at all to encryption, security,
or privacy. I assume this thing promiscuously mirrors everything unencrypted
(at rest) to someone else's server, or if data is encrypted at rest it's done
with someone else's key (server-side "encryption"). That's not only a privacy
nightmare but also a security nightmare. What happens if I store a valuable
credential, card number, etc. on my phone? Barrels of fun.

For example someone with access to this data could:

find /path-to-cache | grep id_rsa ...

... then see how many machines on the Internet they can ssh into using Android
SSH client certificates. Blamo, instant botnet.

~~~
whorleater
There's a "Intelligently secure" blurb at the bottom of the page, but it's
incredibly unhelpful, since the most you'll get out of it is that it has
TouchID and:

> It is securely transmitted and stored encrypted on our servers. And we
> provide two factor authentication with Google.

which could mean any number of things.

------
scott_o
The founding team did an AMA on reddit that addresses a lot of the concerns
people have in here.

I thought they did a good job of giving very "real" answers too, they didn't
seem to dodge any topics.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3l726c/we_are_nextbit...](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3l726c/we_are_nextbit_the_developers_of_the_robin/)

------
kardashev
1\. the cloud - No. I'm trying to get more off my data _off_ the cloud, not on
it.

2\. (censored) swearing in marketing materials - Not classy. Or to put it the
way nextbit's marketing would understand, F*ck no.

~~~
kentosi
Where do they swear? I can't see it.

~~~
kardashev
It's in their video just below the fold of their page.

------
mike-cardwell
I've never ran out of space on a smartphone, and I've never checked how much
I'm using. So this phone isn't for me right? I can't see anything else it has
going for it...

~~~
jhanschoo
Well, what remains to be seen is their price point then.

~~~
brtt
I remember the Kickstarter special being around the ~$349 USD range when it
was being funded. Chances are it will retail for more.

------
azeirah
This site is making my quad-core 3.2GHz /desktop/ pc crawl. How?!

~~~
awalton
It is disgusting a webpage with that little content makes it that fucking
unusable.

Come on people. Pretty designs are meaningless if you can't actually use them.
How can I have faith in the claims you make about your phone if your website
is this unusable? This exact form-over-function is why I hate the modern web.

More people need to see
[http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/](http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/) and
understand.

~~~
siIky
haha Thank you for that link, it's now on my bookmarks!

PS: I logged in just to reply to your comment!

------
cateye
I like the design. I would have ordered it if it wasn't a cloud device.

They are solving a non-existent problem which introduces real problems. I
don't want to sync data on my mobile data plan. I want to have it on my phone.

~~~
giancarlostoro
I agree, although they do give you a generous 32GB of data. I just wish it was
standard for all phones to allow SD cards to be added up to 64GB at the least.
My LG G2 doesn't even allow one, I've heard the newer models do at least.

------
mdip
On the security front, they need to clarify one large point: who has the keys
to that encrypted data on the server?

It's great that they protect the data in transit and store it encrypted on
their servers, but if the data is being encrypted by the server, and can be
decrypted by the server, it's not really protected. Unfortunately, doing
encryption at the server would allow them to make use of single instance
storage and compression, which greatly reduces their data footprint and I'm
guessing if the data was protected by the a client-owned key, they would have
made mention of that along with their other security specifications since it
is a big plus and would easily be a _feature_ worth calling out.

------
chambo622
Interesting looking phone. I suspect many will buy it purely because of its
unique appearance and the fact that it ships with an unlockable bootloader.
But the "cloud syncing killer feature" seems like an incredibly complicated
solution to a problem that I've never had (and never known anyone who did).
Seems like the very few users that do have chronic space issues could solve it
with a $30 microSD card.

I'm curious what else they have in the works that would take advantage of the
complicated stack they've built from OS-level customizations on up that might
present a more compelling reason to chose this product.

------
jrowley
The problem I see with relying on the cloud in mobile settings is that
downloading and uploading stuff really eats at your battery quickly.
Additionally at least in the US, cellular data plans aren't particularly
cheap.

------
angryasian
My biggest questions are -

1\. is it a full backup like titanium backup or is it adb backup thats not as
good.

2\. Some apps you can't just uninstall and reinstall without reverifying every
time. Google authenticator is an example, that I don't think you can backup at
all with adb or theres apps like line, that send you a txt message every time
you reinstall even with titanium backup. How would Robin handle that ?

~~~
michaelmior
I don't see why they couldn't work with Google Authenticator. The app doesn't
necessarily need to be uninstalled. The files for the app just get offloaded
to their servers temporarily.

------
gregmac
Apparently this site works for other people, but it seems to be pointless to
me. All I see is a phone with the date, temperature, tiny text that says
"We've freed up 1.8GB by offloading 10 apps and 34 photos", and nothing to
click on. Do you have to disable adblock or something?

~~~
raphman_
Doesn't scrolling work for you?

~~~
gregmac
Oh, I see it now. There was no scroll bar when I first loaded the site; not
sure if I tried using scroll wheel or not.

------
nmstoker
I love the phone design and i was naturally optimidtic on first reading
through the site, but the negative comments on here brought me round to the
point that this isn't solving a serious problem. If you want some potential
evidence of the challenge they seem to be facing, just look at the number of
views their embedded YouTube video got: it's about 9,000 since posting in
September. Hardly setting the world alight!

This would be far better as a minor benefit that Google built into Android
directly. They did hint at remote virtualized apps a while back (in the
context of "try before you buy") but nothing came of it.

------
nanook
For a second I thought it had an eink-like display and got really excited.

~~~
pedalpete
This should probably be taken as a huge hint to them (or other manufacturers).
I'm surprised nobody has done a phone with an e-ink back (I know there are
cases).

I'm not sure anybody cares about what Nextbit has created here. From the
comments on HN, I'd suggest they haven't identified the market need.

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
_I 'm surprised nobody has done a phone with an e-ink back (I know there are
cases)._

See: YotaPhone, YotaPhone2[0]

[0][http://www.cnet.com/products/yotaphone-2/](http://www.cnet.com/products/yotaphone-2/)

~~~
wernercd
$1100? How about a serious option?

------
Grue3
This is a kickstarter scam. Just read the updates, typical "stringing 'em
along". They have no prototypes and yet promise to ship by February?

[1] [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nextbit/robin-the-
smart...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nextbit/robin-the-smarter-
smartphone/updates)

------
weego
So the only device I own that absolutely has no guarantees about connectivity
is the device you pitch the unending awesomeness of the cloud to me on?

Well OK, I guess.

------
gravypod
I wish more phones followed the, somewhat uncommon, droid turbo battery model.
The droid turbo 2 has a 3760 mAh battery. On slow days I can 2 to 3 days of
internet browsing and reading hackernews without charging (with battery saver
mode enabled).

I wish I could play around with some of my performance settings to squeeze
even just a little bit more battery savings in.

~~~
foota
I remember reading a comment the other day by someone that hacked their
android phone to get something like a weeks battery life.

~~~
gravypod
That would be a very interesting read.

~~~
foota
I can't believe I was able to find this (I didn't upvote it at the time,
apparently.)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845068#up_10849346](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845068#up_10849346)

edit: it was actually a tablet

------
wmeredith
I don't know (or care) much about the tech at play here, but I love the design
of that hardware. Hot damn that's a sexy phone.

------
nickysielicki
Why were Tizen, SailfishOS, Ubuntu Touch, and FirefoxOS such busts?

Android is really not great. It's just the best we have. It's weird to see
projects like these, with a community-oriented and community-organized feel,
that buy into Google's ecosystem so much.

~~~
bastawhiz
The reason most of the ones you mentioned went bust is a lack of ecosystem.
Few and poor apps means it's not compelling for users, which makes it
unattractive for developers. I.e., if my mom can't play Words With Friends
because I buy her an Ubuntu or Sailfish phone, she's not going to use it.

Firefox OS couldn't attract WhatsApp to build an app because of lack of a user
base, which put off many of their European customers who _only_ use WhatsApp
for messaging. WhatsApp isn't the only example. Even Facebook was essentially
just a webview. Convincing companies to spend the resources to get onto your
platform is actually really hard, and usually means developers shell out cash
to companies like Facebook and WhatsApp to get them to build for their OS. You
end up with this vicious feedback loop that kills the platform.

Android already has an ecosystem with top-of-the-line apps. If you want to
build your own mobile operating system, building on Android gives you an
immediate advantage because you already have developers building for your
product, which means real people in the real world actually have a reason to
use your phone.

~~~
rifung
Not only is the ecosystem better on Android, the fact that it came to market
first is a huge positive too. No matter how much money you have, it takes a
long time to build a proper OS.

I don't even really use any third party apps but Google Maps, Gmail, Chrome,
and Google Voice/Hangouts keep me on Android. At the time (and maybe now?) WP8
didn't even have proper notifications and IE had issues rendering random
websites which was annoying.

There certainly were many things Microsoft did better though, like their
keyboard, copy paste, and the speed of the UI. It's too bad they seem to have
given up on it.

------
daurnimator
5.2" is way too big for my likeing. Otherwise it seems to be a nice phone.

I know a few people that are looking to upgrade from the one plus one, but
have no options due to lack of NFC on other one plus models. This seems a
great choice for them.

------
hitlin37
I happen to meet that Robin makers last month in Berlin. They are very
enthusistic and cool guys. I liked that they share everything about there
company and working style so openly.

------
callesgg
Security and fingerprints does not go hand in hand.

It is a cool and convenient feature, it stops the causal girlfriend/boyfriend
that tries to spy on their partner but not much more.

------
nix0n
If you're actually running out of space: some Androids (including my Moto E)
can use 64gb MicroSD cards.

------
keyle
I do hope that it doesn't ship with that godawful animation seen at the top.

------
ourcat
Finally, we can detect our 'phases'.

------
devin
YubiKey NFC support would be great.

