
GNU Hurd - jdkanani
https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html
======
talles
Is there any specific reason why it's on the front page _today_?

P.S.: Just checked xkcd, I guess it's because it have been mentioned in
today's comic...

~~~
smoyer
2042 appears to be an important year in history!

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xkcd2
[http://xkcd.com/1508/](http://xkcd.com/1508/)

~~~
kjs3
The idea that some elderly neckbeard would, decades after the fall, still be
painfully hacking away at Hurd amid the decaying remnants of a dead
civilization is a vision easy to see.

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FreakyT
What is the deal with GNU Hurd? I know it's become a bit of a punchline for
software being late, but does anyone use it for anything?

This site says you can get a build of Debian based on Hurd instead of Linux --
does anyone use this? Is it purely an academic curiosity at this point?

~~~
TillE
Multiple attempts at replacing the Mach microkernel have fizzled out, meaning
it's not even academically interesting. If Coyotos or Viengoos or L4.Sec had
ever worked out, there would be something genuinely useful that people might
want to work on.

~~~
alexvoda
I wasn't aware there were attempts to replace Mach with something else inside
Hurd. I am really interested if you can share a bit of history about this;
Especially if it's related to L4 and capability-computing. Same as Symmetry
below, I would be interested in any L4 and seL4 based general purpose
operating system project.

~~~
dragonwriter
Very brief history is here:

[https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/history/port_to_another_mi...](https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/history/port_to_another_microkernel.html)

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mehrzad
In any case, RMS is absolutely right about people not giving GNU enough credit
in naming or in general.

~~~
amyjess
GNU is becoming progressively less and less important.

The "killer apps" for Linux have never been GNU. Apache httpd and XFree86/Xorg
are by far and above the most popular applications on Linux, and they aren't
GNU projects.

Graphically, GNU is at its nadir of influence. Freedesktop.org controls most
cross-desktop standards, libraries, and services. GNU's own desktop
environment GNOME is no longer _nearly_ as popular as it used to be thanks to
GNOME 3 being actively hostile to desktop users (and GNOME has always been
part of GNU on paper only -- it's effectively a Red Hat project).

On the platform side, the init system has never been GNU. While the init
system has always been a minor part of the OS, this is changing thanks to
systemd (also a product of freedesktop.org) getting its hooks into everything
on several levels.

Actually, I'd go as far as to say that freedesktop.org has far more influence
on the userland than GNU does right now.

~~~
dec0dedab0de
_GNU 's own desktop environment GNOME_

I am pretty sure GNOME is separate from GNU/FSF.

~~~
dragonwriter
GNOME project, and its products, are the work of the GNOME Foundation [0], not
GNU/FSF.

GNU links to GNOME from the name "gnome" within its list of "GNU packages"
[1], but GNOME is, and has been for some time, its own separate organization.
GNU claims that things it lists as "GNU software" consist of software
"released under the auspices of the GNU Project" [2], but that doesn't seem to
apply to GNOME in any meaningful sense _now_ , though _historically_ GNOME
_was_ a product of the GNU project.

EDITED: to reflect historical relationship noted in cwyers reply.

[0] [https://www.gnome.org/](https://www.gnome.org/)

[1]
[http://www.gnu.org/software/software.html](http://www.gnu.org/software/software.html)

[2]
[http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#GNUsoftware](http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#GNUsoftware)

~~~
cwyers
Looking at the history:

[http://www.gnu.org/press/gnome-1.0.html](http://www.gnu.org/press/gnome-1.0.html)

> The Free Software Foundation (FSF) announced the release of GNOME (GNU
> Network Object Model Environment) 1.0 today at the Linux World Conference.
> GNOME is an integrated desktop environment designed to run on GNU/Linux
> systems.

> The Free Software Foundation, a tax-exempt charity formed in 1985, is
> dedicated to eliminating restrictions of people's right to use, copy,
> modify, and redistribute computer programs. It does so by protecting these
> rights through the GNU General Public License. The aim is to give people the
> freedom to cooperate with other computer users.

> "GNOME is a flexible GUI (Graphical User's Interface) that combines ease of
> use and the flexibility and reliability of GNU/Linux. We're very excited
> about GNOME and what it will mean for the future of GNU/Linux computing"
> Miguel de Icaza, chief designer of GNOME said earlier.

At one point, the G in GNOME stood for GNU (now GNOME is just a name, not an
acronym), and the FSF was active in its maintenance.

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robgibbons
Theoretically speaking, does Hurd still have anything to offer over the Linux
kernel's monolithic architecture?

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vezzy-fnord
As it stands, the Hurd consists of file servers on top of Mach called
translators, which provide OS services. It's a rustier version of what Plan 9
achieves via the 9P protocol.

By academic standards the design is uninteresting and perhaps outdated, though
if it had actually flourished in the 90s as it was intended, the use of a
multiserver microkernel in a mainstream OS would have been quite the
achievement back then.

~~~
robgibbons
Thanks vezzy... Very interesting reading about multiserver microkernels. I
also found the following articles on the Hurd website very informative:

[https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/advantages.html](https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/advantages.html)

[https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/community/weblogs/ArneBab/...](https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-
advantages-of-the-hurd.html)

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agumonkey
Just in case, Samuel Thibault does talks about Hurd somehow regularly :
[https://www.google.com/search?q=samuel+thibault+hurd](https://www.google.com/search?q=samuel+thibault+hurd)

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justincormack
If you are interested in trying a microkernel OS, Genode (genode.org) is
pretty interesting, with a secure display architecture, ability to run Linux
in a VM etc.

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Symmetry
I wonder if someone is working on building an OS around seL4 now that it's
open sourced? Obviously it would have to be designed differently than HURD is,
but it sounds like it would be a nifty project.

~~~
Symmetry
A randomish additional thought. It seems like Arrakis[1]-like system is much
more natural since then your database and your filesystem are both user level
processes who have been given access to different hard drives. And your
webserver and normal networking process can be different processes that have
been given access to different channels on your ethernet connection.

Of course I'm just a robotics engineer, this is all woolly speculation.

[1][https://www.usenix.org/conference/osdi14/technical-
sessions/...](https://www.usenix.org/conference/osdi14/technical-
sessions/presentation/peter)

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drivingmenuts
GNU Hurd, the Daikatana edition.

~~~
twic
I have it on good authority that the Hurd is being used as the engine in Half-
Life 3.

~~~
tomjen3
Kind of sad, I remember when Hurd was used in the same sentence as Duke Nukem
Forever.

Then they finished Duke..

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ta0967
Au contraire, it's a reason to lighten up a little: we might live long enough
to see HL3 and Hurd done!

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bshimmin
I like how they're almost as fanatical about using the definite article as
Apple are the opposite ("The GNU Hurd" vs. just "iPhone"):
[https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/what_is_the_gnu_hurd/...](https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/what_is_the_gnu_hurd/gramatically_speaking.html)

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jlas
I wonder how many best practices and contemporary OS techniques have come and
gone in the Hurd's source code over the years.

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jheriko
its still alive?!?!?!

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Cyberis
Oops! you misspelled the name. It begins with a 'T', not an 'H' :-)

