
Hydroxychloroquine Tied to Deaths, Heart Risk in Covid Study - pseudolus
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/hydroxychloroquine-linked-to-deaths-heart-risks-in-covid-study
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jakeogh
Expression of concern: Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a
macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis

[https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/article/s0140673620312903](https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/article/s0140673620312903)

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Khelavaster
Absolute garbage. The study confirms that sicker patients get
hydroxychloroquine more frequently than less-sick patients. When sicker
patients get drugs, "Treatment with any combination of the four drugs was
associated with a higher risk of death than seen in 81,000 patients who didn’t
receive them."

And...why don't the study authors control for zinc use as well?
"Hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionophore", explains one paper.

~~~
rsynnott
> The study confirms that sicker patients get hydroxychloroquine more
> frequently than less-sick patients.

Wait, where does it say that in the study? The study specifically says it
controls for disease severity (amongst other things), and that it only uses
data for people given the drugs within 48 hours of diagnosis.

~~~
Khelavaster
"Within 48 hours of diagnosis" indicates nothing about disease severity, nor
how long patients were sick prior to diagnosis.

> Wait, where does it say that in the study? The study _supports_ the idea
> that sicker patients get hydroxychloroquine more frequently than less-sick
> patients. The study's raw figures show that sicker patients get
> hydroxychloroquine more than healthier patients.

The study states that besides age and BMI, "all other [control] data were
treated as categorical variables in the model."

It's clear the study's authors don't sensitively control for patients'
angiotensin-renin-aldosterone system health.

There's strong subject selection bias in "initial disease severity" as well
when some subjects die at home and others go to the ER mistaking mild Covid
for heart attack symptoms.

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jakeogh
Retracted:
[https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/article/s0140673620313246](https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/article/s0140673620313246)

[https://twitter.com/TheLancet/status/1268613313702891523](https://twitter.com/TheLancet/status/1268613313702891523)

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jakeogh
More technical discusson:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23273615](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23273615)

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fzeroracer
There were multiple posters here on HN advocating for Hydroxychloroquine
saying that it's safe, that you have nothing to lose otherwise and that it's
better to try something than do nothing.

So unfortunately what we have here is a textbook example of people falling for
a cargo cult surrounding a drug whose efficacy wasn't confirmed at all. Even
if a drug seems safe and has few side effects, you should never self-dose or
listen to people without medical consensus.

~~~
mydongle
Call me crazy, but there is something interesting I observed. Before Trump
started advocating for it, there were some articles touting Hydroxychloroquine
as a potential Covid-19 treatment, and that it was worth trying. Immediately
after Trump started advocating for it, Hydroxychloroquine became like a
poison, that will kill everyone. Isn't that great? I wish more things would
receive this level of scrutiny before being inflicted on vulnerable and
desperate people.

~~~
acdha
This is an artifact of the way the news was presented where you read it: this
is an old drug with well-understood side-effects and actual experts
(pharmacists, doctors, patients) pointed those out almost immediately.

The problem is that the people hyping it through either desperation or greed
have a lot more time to spend promoting an idea than, say, medical
professionals during a pandemic — a dynamic which got much worse when the full
weight of Fox News and the President of the United States jumped on board the
hype train.

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floest
Confirming what we've known all along

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jakeogh
[https://spectator.org/lancetgate-pulling-a-fast-one-on-
propo...](https://spectator.org/lancetgate-pulling-a-fast-one-on-proponents-
of-hydroxychloroquine-and-chloroquine/)

[https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-doubt-over-
hydroxychloro...](https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-doubt-over-
hydroxychloroquine-study-130453194.html)

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throwawaysea
It’s probably too early to draw conclusions. Many doctors seem to think it is
the best treatment available:
[http://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-
effecti...](http://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-effective-
coronavirus-treatment-poll/)

I think people should resist politicizing this because they are for our
against Trump. It is normal for both medicine and the scientific process in
general to have a multitude of voices with diverse opinions.

~~~
downerending
It's practically obscene that anyone thinks that Trump's mention should in any
way affect their thinking about a drug. People are dying--let science run its
course unhindered.

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mrlonglong
I am hoping come the November elections that Trump will be gone. He has made
the US look incredibly stupid in the rest of the world's eyes.

