
Ask HN: What were your naivetés in your twenties? - noname123
Oh the wise elders of Hack News,<p>I'd like to cheat in life and instead of learning my life lessons the hard way, I'd like to skip ahead and read the ending of the current chapter that I'm currently on.<p>When I was in middle school, my biggest worry was getting the latest Abercrombie &#38; Fitch cargo pants to fit in on the school hallway, whether this girl on my school bus liked me, and if the size of my gentalia was on par with my peers back then.<p>When I was in high school, my biggest worry was doing well in school so that I could get into an ivy league school; tacking on a bunch of AP courses and extracurricular activities, not necessarily because I enjoyed AP Chemistry or the track team, but I had to, to get into a ivy league school; and trying to look "cool," "edgy," &#38; "artsy" while caring to stay within the boundaries of MTV's and my high school's social conventions.<p>When I was in college, my biggest worry was doing well in school so I could go onto a top graduate/medical school or grab a six-figure salary at an i-bank upon graduation. Befriended certain people, chased certain girls (and botched things up royally after the chasing phase is over), got involved in some unsavory debauchery not necessarily because I  wanted to live out the lives that "burn, burn, burn" but rather out of my fear of missing out on the "college experience."<p>Of course, it didn't all seem that way when I was in the moment - and certainly I don't regret the things I did in the past (because I can't change the past) and I'll be certain to make lots of mistakes in the future too. And even if an older version of me, traveled back in time to my middle school, told me how stupid of me it was to spend $70 of my parents' money on a pair of Abercrombie &#38; Fitch cargo pants, I know that my middle school self would respond, "are you crazy, I need to get these pants to impress this chick on my school bus!"<p>I only beseech your wisdom about what mistakes/naivetes I'll incur in my twenties, oh the elders of the Hacker News, so that when I realize later how right you were after my twenties, I could slap myself silly and say to myself, in the place of your absence, "see? I told you so!"<p>Best,
noname123
======
pavs
One of the most important lesson I have learned is the importance of savings
and living a frugal life. Even if you are independently wealthy, living a
frugal life can give you a sense of introspection that is hard to understand
for most when you are wealthy.

Save. Save. Save.

They say you learn your biggest life lesson as you stumble through your
experiences in life. Poverty is something you would NOT want to experience in
your life and there is no guarantee you will survive through it and when (or
if) you do survive it might take a big chunk of your life you will never get
back or recover from the process.

~~~
Terry_B
My desire to do this though, causes the problem that I feel like I can't stop
working and constantly increasing my savings.

The idea that if I take time off for a while to work on something at a loss,
the damage will be too great due to the long time effects of compounding
interest etc and the desire to build a prosperous life for my family.

So I think I have the opposite problem. I have a hard time stepping off the
gas pedal to pursue things that would probably be more beneficial and
enjoyable.

~~~
aaronblohowiak
it seems as though you are talking about something different from the OP. you
are emphasizing building wealth, the OP is emphasizing restraint.

~~~
silvestrov
It is two sides of the same coin: you can't build wealth without exercising
restraint. Look at all the professional young sport guys who earned millions
in no time, and who wasted it all on senseless bling-bling.

And he says, " _work on something at a loss_ ", which is definitly not
building wealth, it is anti-saving. If you are a saver, you'll always save
money no matter how much or how little you earn. Spending your savings is
against your nature.

Saving money is living in the possibilities, in the mind.

~~~
Retric
~30,000$ in rice today was significant wealth 1,000+ years ago. (It's all the
calories someone needs over a reasonably long life.)

However, IMO wealth is best measured as a multiple of your lifestyle, someone
with a billion in the bank who spends 300 million a year can't retire without
cutting back, but someone with 1 million in the bank who spends 20k/year can.

------
HSO
One of my "naiveties" was to believe others' post-hoc explanations of their
success or failure. People usually overestimate their own impact or
effectiveness in influencing their life, and that's probably a good
misperception to have in order to "take control" or "be proactive", good
attitudes to life. But it's a mistake to carry this bias over to interpreting
other people's life. Life is usually too complex to figure out from the
outside what went down and what was the kicker. Many times, I figure, people
themselves don't know much about what ultimately determined their life
outcome. I'm not exactly sure what conclusion to draw from this. But just be
careful in mimicking other people, or even asking questions like this. It's
only superficially smart. The best ways to learn from others may be to read
literature or poetry, i.e. to learn from fictive others; good writers are not
good writers because they write well but because of their perceptive power.

------
lionhearted
Man, forgive me for being blunt, but there's a lot of loser talk in this
thread. "Oh you can't learn from others mistakes, you'll make them, blah blah
blah..." - no, this is how people feel better about themselves for having not
listened to advice and getting wrecked in their own life because of it. Sure,
you'll make mistakes, but you shouldn't just accept wandering blindly through
life dealing with stuff. This is what most people do, mind you - wander
blindly through life. Like, there's tons of literature on good parenting. How
many people read it? Like, none. So then they justify their bad parenting by
saying "well, we all have to make our mistakes" - bullshit. Bullshit lazy
talk. This is like the "you've got to earn your stripes the hard way" thing -
sometimes you do, but _sometimes you don't_. But people who got their stripes
the hard way often hate people who get them an easier way. Ignore those
people.

Okay, that said, this thread was really good:

"Ask HN: What streetsmarts have you learnt?"
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1366217>

I'll paste my comment from that thread, it's absolutely true and I learned it
the hard way. Also, I admire you for being proactive and looking for advice to
build a smarter, better life with.

\--

Track record, track record, track record, track record. Look at the track
record. Track records don't lie. Track record, track record, track record.

Someone fired from all their jobs is probably going to be a menace later in
some form or fashion.

Someone who ended all their relationships on bad terms is going to end on bad
terms with you.

Strong starters/non-finishers are going to start strong but likely won't be
able to close it out without extra help later... which you might be oblivious
to, because they'd started so strongly.

Track records don't lie. Unless you're really good at spotting diamonds in the
rough, don't grab someone with a bad track record for an important role in
your business and life. I've learned this one the hard way too many times. I
still get tempted with, "Wow, this guy/girl is so amazing, the problem must've
been the other people..."

I'm trying to not do that any more. Once? Quite possibly a fluke. Twice?
Maybe... Three times? That's a track record. Also, people will always say
they've changed. It's probably a bad idea to be the first person to test out
whether it's real or not.

~~~
dan00
"Like, there's tons of literature on good parenting. How many people read it?
Like, none."

I think that's a really bad example. There's a lot of bullshit in the
parenting literature. In a way I find it very disturbing, that we need to
learn how to parent our children.

~~~
edanm
"In a way I find it very disturbing, that we need to learn how to parent our
children."

Really? Why?

I've never understood why people look at parenting differently than any other
skill you have to learn.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>I've never understood why people look at parenting differently than any other
skill you have to learn.

Parenting should be assimilated (learnt if you like) gradually over time from
those around you. Humans IMO function best as family groups within a [close-
knit] tribal system: under such a regime one learns from one's own parents,
parents of peers, parents of younger children, older intra-generation peers
and peers as parents as well as from looking after younger children as a
child, looking after younger children as a teen, ... you get the idea.

Even under such a regime it's possible that you can learn "better" parenting
from outside the group but you're going to be able to actually do it already
just like learning to eat or prepare food.

The thing is we mostly don't have such a structure.

It seems to me that society is in death throes; that as populations burgeon so
we value one another and interaction with one another less-and-less. But
perhaps this is just me; I tend to be too introverted and pessimistic for my
own good.

~~~
eagleal
From experience I've seen that this "learn by your parents" is truly starting
to be weak in the Western "thinking" countries. Poor countries on the other
hand use this a lot.

I was raised in a post-communist Albania, and people weren't influenced by
consumerism. It was a more warm-environment for the child to grow. My sister
was raised in Italy (during 00'). Between me and my sister, assuming the same
age, I would learn better from my parents then her.

------
chegra
1\. Your friends aren't your market, so don't be surprise when they don't read
your blog or join your site. It's like offering a guy a skirt to wear; it's
just not something they are interested in.

2\. Your friends and family really want you to succeed. Even though they might
say negative stuff about you trying something new, they want you to succeed.
Part of the reason they say these stuff is that they want to prevent you from
experiencing failure and all the emotional baggage that comes along with it.
What I am saying is to take the negative statements made by families and
friends lightly. My family was surprised I sold my website when I started grad
school; I thought they didn't care for it.

3\. Try to network as much as possible. Most investors wouldn't invest in
someone who is not properly introduce. 75% of romantic relationship are
established through your network. 90% of jobs are found through networks, at
least the upper echelon ones.

4\. Actions over words. Do something then talk about it, not the other way
around. Talking is satisfying enough that it might not lead to action.

~~~
nailer
> 75% of romantic relationship are established through your network.

Yes, but if you can cold call you'll get get a wider range of possible results
(says a happily married cold caller!).

~~~
tome
What do you mean by "cold calling" in this context?

~~~
nailer
Approaching complete unknowns outside of your network - in my case, a girl
who'd spent most of her time arguing with another guy at a bar and got up to
leave. This girl is now Mrs Nailer.

------
jasonkester
Two things:

1.) Save money while you're young. Keep living like a college student for 5
years after you leave college and sack away at least $10k/year. Put it into
the market and don't touch it again until you retire.

Compound interest is quite a thing to behold, and 5% returns over 40 years
will do some amazing things to your money. Start with 100k when you're under
30 and you probably won't ever need to worry about retirement savings.

2\. Get to the point where you are provably good at what you do as fast as
possible. This will mean switching jobs several times. Build things that are
noteworthy and get to the point where people are recommending you to their
friends.

Once you've done that, you get secret point 3:

3\. You are more valuable to your employer than they are to you.

Companies spend a lot of effort making you think your job is precarious and
could be taken away at any minute. In reality it will take six months to find
a decent replacement for you. Once you're in and demonstrating that you can
find your arse with both hands, they're not going to want to lose you.

That gives you lots of room to explore, and is the reason that I love this
industry so much. I can't think of another profession where you can take nine
months off _every year_ and still make a good living.

More here:

[http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/2007/02/two-weeks-
vaca...](http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/2007/02/two-weeks-vacation-is-
only.html)

------
aaronblohowiak
Lessons I'm learning: Social protocol has a real impact on people. The quality
of your reasoning doesn't provide you an excuse to ignore it.

It is incredibly easy to blow thousands of dollars, $20 at a time.

Smile.

Reserve judgement until judgement is required.

Helping people is more satisfying than helping yourself. This is true because
you can feel like you've helped others enough, but you will always want more
for yourself. ;)

Ambition isn't talent. Ambition isn't a moral quality.

Be prepared.

There is no substitute for good sleeping habits. Really.

Complex, irrational arguments and behavior are often explained by simple
emotional factors.

~~~
chronomex
_It is incredibly easy to blow thousands of dollars, $20 at a time._

I'm only 22 and I already learned that the hard way. Spend less than you earn.

~~~
kleevr
I couldn't find the original quote, but if I can paraphrase it:

Spend two pence less than you make and you'll be content, maybe even happy.
Spend two pence more than you make and you'll be miserable.

~~~
whatusername
Wilkins Micawber -- <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkins_Micawber> (A
character in Charles Dickens' novel David Copperfield)

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and
six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty
pounds ought and six, result misery."

------
edw519
Find a customer first.

This is the biggest mistake I made in my twenties, and it's such an easy
mistake to make that I continue to make it now even though I know better.

I continually have ideas popping into my head. And I act on many of them. So
much cool stuff. If only I can get this working, it will change the world. And
I love being in this mode; it's so much fun. And it can lead to great
things...

But you have to know when you're going too far and wasting time, money, and
energy. At some point, you have to find a customer. Any kind of customer, just
_someone_ besides yourself who wants what you're doing.

When I have had partners, they forced me into this thinking, directing our
energy to where the demand was. This always worked out well.

When I worked alone, well let's just say there's tons of cool stuff still on
the drawing board that led nowhere. Don't let that happen to you.

I'm not saying to suppress your creativity or experimentation. I'm just saying
the point you need to find a customer is _much_ earlier than the hacker
mindset intuitively expects.

It there was one thing I could change in my twenties, it would be to adopt
this thinking.

------
Xurinos
Naivetes over time:

In my 20s... I thought I knew what I was doing and was ready to take on the
world with my fresh expertise.

In my 30s... I thought I knew what I was doing and was ready to take on the
world with my fresh expertise.

In my 40s... I thought I knew what I was doing and was ready to take on the
world with my fresh expertise.

...

You will always be a child. Whatever your age, you will think you know better,
and you do not. You may know much about certain fields, but that does not
qualify you for other fields. Having a child does not make you an expert on
children. Being able to program a computer does not make you an expert on
computers or computer programming. There is no top tier, no limit to knowledge
that provides you a comfortable mountain peak to sit upon.

Do not accept limitations. Do not believe the limitations other people
conjure. Experiment, even in the face of rejection, and you may learn
something new and unrelated to your original experiment, or you may prove the
know-it-alls wrong.

Being right is as useless in the social world as having ideas. Both are mental
drugs.

Everything I said is both useful and useless. Maybe I can sum it up as,
"Approach life with humility." I fail at this. Good luck!

------
chmike
Meritocracy : the reward would be function of merit.

What I've learned is that merit is a multivariate dimension with different
weights on the variables. Weights varies heavily with time and context. The
reward is also very relative because it has never bee what I would consider a
legitimate reward.

The error was induced by school notes working model as well as by education
process of parents with rewarding and praising. I assumed it would apply in
"true life" everywhere with everybody that would have to judge or evaluate me.

~~~
ErrantX
I've written about this before actually. I hung out in a couple of supposed
Meritocracy (both in real life and online) and all of them collapsed when
someone asked the question "so, uh, what is merit exactly?" - because no one
could agree :)

------
ju2tin
I'd like to add something I haven't seen posted yet: Your body may not last as
long as you think it will, at least not in top condition. I'm 37 and I've had
lower back pain due to a herniated disc for 2 years now. There's no easy fix
for it. I can get around and enjoy life, but some of the extreme physical
activities I used to like (example: freestyle/backcountry snowboarding) are
pretty much off the menu. I'm glad I did them a lot when I was younger.

So I guess what I'm saying is, don't think you can just work a lot when you're
younger and do whatever you want when you're older. Nature may limit your
options. Make sure you do the things you like to do when your body is strong
and healthy enough to handle them.

On that note, take good care of your back. You can heal a broken arm or leg,
but you can't heal a herniated disc. You only get one back. Bend from the
knees, sit up straight, use ergonomic furniture, and don't walk around with
200-pound backpacks.

------
DanielBMarkham
\- Shiny things are nowhere as much fun after you get them as before, even if
they have some value. So yes, that Kindle or iPad or whatever will have a real
use, and you will be marginally happier with it than without, but not as much
as you think

\- You can talk yourself into (or out of) anything. The only difference
between smart people and other people is that smart people do this with bigger
words and more complex arguments. Be confident, but also assume that you are
broken in ways you can never spot. Find some ways to get a checksum on life
decisions every now and then.

\- You don't need very much at all. Maybe a laptop computer and a couple
changes of clothes. Pictures and videos of your life. That's about it.

\- Nothing will ever replace experiences. No matter how big the car, nice the
house, or professional-looking the suit, it's never going to be as much fun or
mean as much later as the experiences you have in life. And it's not just
_having_ the experience, it's looking forward to them, and planning them, and
making pictures, movies, and blogs out of them. The best part, oddly, may be
the planning. So planning a 200-dollar trip to the beach in the Fall with
people you love may give you many hours of happiness this summer -- along with
the fun of the trip itself.

\- Learn to keep picking topics and immersing yourself in them. Most everybody
will say to drop out and become part of the system -- 9-5 job and
TV/games/internet in the evening. If you want a life you could sleep through,
that's fine. But if you want a life you can tell stories about, keep
reinventing yourself. And that means constantly learning.

\- Lots of shit in life that once looked dumb or stupid opens up into this
huge panorama of beauty once you learn the rules. In so many things you are
like the guy who never saw a baseball game going to the world series. You kind
of get it, but it all seems silly. You don't know the rules. Decide to learn
how to appreciate music, for instance. Get a few college lectures on tape, get
some good music to listen to, hang out with folks who are music connoisseurs.
The more you know about various art forms, the richer your life is.

\- Forget philosophy and meaning-of-life shit. You're too young. For now, you
are what you _do_. Go do something worthwhile

\- Stick to a daily exercise routine at all costs

\- If you are changing and getting better, that means you are changing friends
too. This was very difficult for me, but you can't hang out with the same
folks and expect to become a better person. There are exceptions, of course,
but to a large degree your life is controlled by whom you choose to be friends
and hang out with. Be aware that you don't want to be the same person at 30 as
you were at 20. I'm not saying be an asshole -- keep being friendly by all
means -- but be very careful who you hold yourself up against as "normal"

\- Dating is a numbers game, like a lot of other things. Learn the skills of
dating and don't sweat picking up chicks (or guys)

\- Concentrate on your weaknesses. Make them stronger. When you get to your
30s you can work from your strengths, but there has to be some time in your
life to work on shit you suck at, and for me it was when I had the most
motivation, my 20s.

\- Speaking of which, you have to learn management. No matter what you do,
there will be a manager. Even if you don't want to be one, you have to
understand what the job is like to help out your manager. Being a good leader
means being a good servant. This concept sounded easy (or facile) to me in my
20s, but proved hard to apply in practice.

\- You are never ready for kids. Have them early while you have energy. Read
all the books about kids if you must, but realize that creating a replacement
is about the most biologically easy thing you could do. After all, evolution
has been working on making you a great gene transferral and primate-raising
machine, so don't get paranoid and neurotic about all the latest parenting
fashion. Use some sense.

\- Everybody wants to be a rock star and win the lottery. Nobody ever does,
and the ones that do end up destroying their life. Realize slow success is a
million times better than overnight success.

\- Much of the stuff in life that normal people do is geared around killing
time by distracting you with shiny things of no value. You may never be able
to fight this completely, but you should at least deeply understand it and how
it affects your goals

\- _Create_. With a passion. There are two major kinds of people in this
world, consumers and creators. The herd will push you to consume, life will
push you to consume, consumption is the easy and default path, but true joy
and a full life come from creating. It does not matter one bit how many people
like what you create, just create. Write. Blog. Make videos. Make a movie.
Write a program. The longer the format and the more creativity involved, the
more you are going to turn on and exercise key parts of your brain. Nobody
wants to be 80 and only have stories of being at the office, but fuck, if you
were at the office _creating something_ at least you tried to make a
difference. I'd rather be that guy than the one who watched Sumo wrestling
everyday (or played 20,000 hours of WoW during his 20s) The only thing you're
going to have at the end of your life are the decisions you made, the things
you created, and memories. Learn to maximize these things.

~~~
lsc
> \- Concentrate on your weaknesses. Make them stronger. When you get to your
> 30s you can work from your strengths, but there has to be some time in your
> life to work on shit you suck at, and for me it was when I had the most
> motivation, my 20s.

I don't think I could disagree more. If I focused on my weaknesses, I'd still
be working on my handwriting. I spent years in school trying to learn how to
write legibly, and as soon as I got out I dropped that and used a computer for
everything. I'm a published author now, and without a computer I still can't
legibly compose a sentence. You know what? nobody cares that my cheques are
hard to read.

Sure, you can focus on bringing up the things you are bad at to 'average' and
be a mediocre person, or you can min/max it, and be /really good/ at some
things, and really suck at others. Sure, we'd all like to be good at
everything. But you know what? for most of us, it's not happening. you need to
make choices.

As a child, your mom (or, at least my mom was) all about how important doing
your laundry, cooking, doing the dishes, etc... is. In the real world? you can
pay other people to do that. You don't even have to pay them very much. Your
first programming job will pay enough to eat out every day and have someone
come by and clean your house once or twice a week. (granted, knowing how to
cook is a good skill; it's usually healthier. My point is just that no matter
what you are bad at, there is almost always a way to solve any problem using
one of your strengths.)

granted... your first programming job won't pay for that /and/ a spiffy new
sportscar every five years, but for me, the free time to work on the things I
care about is worth more than a sportscar.

Figure out what sorts of things you are good at learning. Become /really good/
at those things, and put yourself in situations where your strengths matter
and your weaknesses don't slow you down too much. Cultivate friendships with
people who have complementary skillsets.

~~~
stratospark
Your mom was teaching you more about responsibility than anything else.

~~~
lsc
I understand that was the intent. The problem is that it teaches rote work,
which is quite a bit less useful than triage and delegation, I think, when it
comes to general 'responsibility'

I /always/ will have more tasks that i want done than I have time. I need to
decide what tasks I drop on the floor[1], what tasks i delegate to others, and
what tasks I do myself.

[1]dropping tasks gracefully is a /huge/ part of being 'responsible.' part of
this needs to be thought out ahead of time. Don't promise things you later are
going to drop on the floor. If you must drop something on the floor that
someone else is expecting (and you will need to do this, sometimes.) you need
to notify them as soon as possible.

~~~
tome
There will always be rote work, and it's worthwhile learning how to cope with
it.

------
duopixel
Being too cocky about the experience and depth of knowledge I had at the time.
I was a big fish in a small pond, and I outperformed my peers, but on once you
go up the professional ladder you realize how little you know.

~~~
portman
I 100% agree, and would summarize as "You are not as good as you think you
are".

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1209119>

------
jamesbritt
Not only is life short, it's shorter than you think.

Make your time count.

I don't mean a life round-the-clock serious business, just be mindful of when
you are pissing away your time.

Every single person I know suddenly finds themselves thinking, Holy fuck, I'm
[40|50|60|...]? How in the hell did _that_ happen?

And you will do the same.

------
Greenwell
That you never regret the big fun adventures that you decide to go on.

When faced with the decision, it can be really hard to take 6 months off to
travel to the destination of your dreams - but in hindsight, these are the
best times of your life and you usually don't regret them.

I recently sat with a 96 year old man, and his stories were about his trips to
his hometown in Europe and to the United States, not about the job that he
took or the project that he completed.

~~~
GFischer
There were several articles over here about the "Experience Self" vs the
"Remembering Self", all based on a talk by Dr.Daniel Kahneman
([http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_exper...](http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html))

Some articles have a summary:

[http://sheshtawy.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/experience-self-
vs...](http://sheshtawy.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/experience-self-vs-
remembering-self-experience-vs-memory/)

The remembering self of the old man definitely appreciated the trips better :)

~~~
tome
My comments on Kahneman's talk:

<http://web.jaguarpaw.co.uk/~tom/blog.html>

------
daeken
I'm 22, and perhaps I'm naive in my belief of this, but one of the biggest
things I've learned is that theory and practice are rarely aligned. Reading
about mistakes someone else has made generally only helps you see that you've
made the same mistake in hindsight; when you're heading down that same path,
you tend to justify it or are completely blind to the fact that it's a
mistake.

All that said, I'm curious about what comes of this thread regardless of how
useful it ends up being.

~~~
ntoshev
You need to constantly validate your theories against the real world, what
other people say is not enough.

This means: solve a lot of problems after you learned a theory, try to feel
out the problem space yourself by extending the theory or applying it in a
specific way, practice, practice, practice, and always look out for things
everyone considers true but are not obvious from the data.

------
shin_lao
It's naive of you to believe you can learn from our past naivety.

You will have to do your own mistakes and learn from them.

 _Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to
time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught._ -Oscar Wilde

~~~
lionhearted
> It's naive of you to believe you can learn from our past naivety.

Firmly disagree. You absolutely can learn from others' past mistakes - that
doesn't mean you'll make no mistakes, but you absolutely can make less
mistakes and recognize and correct them faster.

> You will have to do your own mistakes and learn from them.

True. But the more you can listen to and apply good guidance from people
who've been there, the better chance you get there faster, more easily, and
with less pain.

I wish someone had taught me to lift weights with lower weight and perfect
form instead of trying to be superman - from that, I tore some cartilage in my
knee doing squats with too much weight and bad form. I've showed a couple
people how to lift since then, given them a stern admonition not to try to
look powerful, but to focus on steady, safe gains. As far as I know, everyone
getting this stern admonition with relevant stories about physical therapy and
assorted misery listens to them and lifts weights in a safer, more healthy
way. You can learn from others' mistakes, often refrain or minimize the
mistake-making in your life, and be much better off for doing so.

~~~
barrkel
There are different kinds of knowledge, and advice targeted at different kinds
of mistakes.

Errors of technique, like you describe, certainly can be learned from without
needing to experience them yourself - though the lesson might not be learned
as well, it may be learned well enough to avoid the problem.

But other kinds of knowledge, particularly relating to emotional maturity or
social interaction, are very hard to acquire from a book, as it were. You need
to live the experience to properly appreciate the lesson.

~~~
eru
But perhaps if you have the knowledge of other guys' mistakes, you can spot
your own mistakes earlier. Instead of having to repeat them a hundred times
before it dawns on you.

Also learning from mistakes--your own and those of other people--enables you
to make different mistakes.

------
brg
You will only be given what you deserve after you ask for it. And never be
afraid of asking for it if you deserve it.

This is true for gratitude, raises, promotions, funding, marriage, etc.

------
starkfist
The main things I learned:

\- don't smoke. total waste of health and money.

\- don't drink/hang out in bars. total waste of time and money

\- make an earnest attempt at becoming a professional BMX racer or late night
talk show host or whatever your REAL childhood dream was before spending too
much time programming the internet.

\- make a lot of friends

\- if a girl doesn't sleep with you after the 3rd date, don't call her back

\- always have about $30 grand in a bank account somewhere. this will give you
the peace of mind to not feel pressured to stay in a job that you hate

------
cammil
Don't believe everything they tell you. If you listen to too many people too
often, you will be average at best.

Have the conviction to be better. If you can't convince people of your ideas,
it doesn't mean the ideas are bad, it just means they didn't think of them
first.

~~~
patrickk
_Don't believe everything they tell you. If you listen to too many people too
often, you will be average at best._

In other words, don't go to med school because daddy's a doctor and told you
so.

There's a reason a lot of highly successful people dropped out of college or
never went.

~~~
M_Sanger
I studied engineering because daddy's an engineer. At a young age I didn't
comprehend how fulfilling math and science could be, I didn't understand the
creativity and depth and purpose it could bring to me. It turns out daddy has
been right a lot of the time.

Also, sure some highly successful people dropped out of college, but perhaps
even more highly successful people stuck with it so I'm not sure I agree with
"a lot". How often does impulsiveness and ego result in one's downfall as
opposed to one's success? I certainly think taking the jump is much more
interesting, but we also mostly hear about the success stories. After watching
plenty of crappy actresses on screen one could conclude it's easy to earn
millions smiling in front of a camera, but that's not the case.

~~~
patrickk
I didn't mean to appear to disparage college, I myself am a recent graduate.

The point I was making was that _some_ people, in order to be highly
successful, have to do things that seem weird, risky or downright crazy in
order to get ahead (things that their friends, family, business partners,
investors etc wouldn't approve of or don't see the reason for).

Examples:

\- Sergey Brin is _on leave_ from his PhD studies in Stanford. If the price of
me not having to use Yahoo or MSN to find stuff online is the knowledge that
one of Google's co-founders doesn't have his PhD yet because he dropped out of
his studies to co-found Google, then that's a price I'm willing to pay ;-).
Apparently his parents still aren't happy that he doesn't have it, even though
he's the 24th richest man in the world.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin>

\- A guy called Michael Burry was the first man to 'predict' the housing
market collapse in the US. Author Michael Lewis profiled him in his book, 'The
Big Short'. His investors criticized him for years that such a stance was
insane, un-American, impossible etc. Mr. Burry didn't listen to any of them,
and stuck to his guns because his own research and insight told him he was
right. He made millions in a short space of time when things went pear-shaped
near the end of 2008. Others copied his strategy also, and made out like
bandits.

See: [http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/wall-
str...](http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/wall-street-
excerpt-201004)

------
wyclif
That girlfriend material is the same as wife material.

~~~
baguasquirrel
That's startling. What makes it so?

Do you think that the converse is true, that boyfriend material is the same as
husband material?

~~~
noname123
I believe the wyclif was referring to rather quite the opposite, that a former
naive belief of his was that girlfriend material is the same as wife material.

This is in spite of my former belief the only thing that would ever come out
of wyclif's mouth was "dollar dollar bill, y'all".

~~~
alttab
_former naive belief of his was that girlfriend material is the same as wife
material._

I read his original comment as "you want your girlfriend to be like your
wife." That is unless you like wasting 2 people's time instead of one.

If you are just looking for "girlfriend" activities, then shes not really your
girlfriend, is she?

~~~
wyclif
OK, I'll settle this: noname123 is right. Remember, this is Ask HN. I just
answered the question "What were your naivetés in your twenties?" That was one
of mine. I'm amused that got voted up so much while being misunderstood by
some...the dangers of brevity!

------
doug_m
As someone just about to see my twenties consigned to history here you go:

* There is plenty of time to try a few things out and not feel like your doing anything wrong. I went from school to university and threw myself into a career and it brings you financial advantages which, I suppose, may compound in future life but looking around my peers nobody regrets the year travelling or the year working a couple of jobs that were never a career (teaching abroad?).

* I think most people would say its sensible to start early with savings/pensions and personally I have but, you know what, balance is as important.

* People do nice things for people they like. This, in my experience, has extended to pay rises and favours in work so I try to work for people who like me even if that involves playing a game. Another place I apply this is I'll only contradict or criticise someone at work is if they ask my opinion and even then only in the right setting.

* Finally, basically I wish I hadn't worried about stuff so much. Property prices, interest rates, fillings in my teeth, projects running over etc. At 29 I think I worry about 2% of what I did at 21.

~~~
nostromo
> People do nice things for people they like.

So true. As a manager, I go the extra mile to keep employees I like.

> I wish I hadn't worried about ... fillings in my teeth

So wrong! If your teeth are fucked up, your life will suffer. __Get a grade-A
dentist and see him or her often. __If you get fillings, go for Gold. It's
crazy pricey, but they last for a very long time, don't decay, and won't fill
up your mouth with mercury.

------
davidwparker
Avoid debt, Save money, Give generously, Live frugally.

If you have debt already, then pay it off as fast as possible. Go crazy to pay
it off- rice and beans, beans and rice.

When you're done paying off debt, then save vigorously (before paying off
debt, make sure you have ~$1000 in the bank for an emergency). But if you have
no car payment, no school debt, etc, then you can save soooo much money.

When you've saved a lot of money, then you can give a lot of money. Be
generous. Find an issue or something that you really believe in and give. When
giving with a grateful heart, you will be really happy.

Finally, just live frugally. You don't always need the latest and greatest
tech, or whatever is the cool new gadget or car, etc. Enjoy what you have.

~~~
GFischer
I'm going to emphasize what david and many others said: Avoid debt whenever
possible.

Being in debt feels like slavery (for example, I can't quit my job or get some
unpaid vacations because I'm in debt).

Not to mention there can be some unforeseen catastrophes: a former coworker
had her money frozen during the bank crash of 2002 (in Uruguay and Argentina),
and had her credit card maxed out. She became almost homeless and now swore
off credit.

Savings work in reverse: they allow you freedom - to take time off, to start
your own company or even to indulge.

Being generous also feels good.

And lastly, the advice about stuff vs experiences posted here and higher in
the thread is very good as well.

A disclaimer: I don't believe in being a luddite, and there are things I value
A LOT - for example, having my own car after not having a car for 28 years -
but the marginal improvement from an old clunker to a newer car is nowhere
near as no car vs any car, and the same happens for Iphone 3 vs Iphone 4 or
whatever - I'm not advocating having no cellphone or car or whatever, only
that the difference between brand A and brand X where the price is
substantially higher is probably not worth it except as an indulgence.

------
pavelludiq
My twenties started 6 months ago, but I've already discovered several of
these.

I discovered that despite knowing several languages and frameworks, i can't
actually program. Despite being able to get descent grades in high-school
without studying i can't do it with university material, so i have less time
to play with computers, because i actually have to put in effort. I thought
smoking is bad for you, the same way junk food is, actually it has a much
bigger impact on your body, much faster. I thought i don't need to
sleep...ever. I look forward to discovering more of these, as quickly as
possible.

~~~
qw
You're lucky to have discovered this now. I learned it the hard way, when I
didn't have the motivation or dedication to study hard at the University. I
just hadn't learned how to force myself to study.

A lot of people underestimate what higher education teaches you. You may be
able to learn how to program by yourself, but you don't learn how to do the
boring hard work.

------
xutopia
7 out of the 10 richest people in the world are dropouts. Women love sex but
you have to look like the one who wants it more. Ask for more money or for sex
and once in a while you'll get what you want.

Don't spend your time racing towards more money once you are comfortable
financially. It will not make you happier.

Travel to open your horizons. If possible work overseas for at least a year.
This is the best way to learn about life.

Try anything twice. Some apprehensions about food (amongst other things) are
learned. You might think you don't like some food or activity but try it twice
and you might find out what you like.

------
donw
One: Have fun.

You have one life, and only one chance to enjoy it. If you waste your time on
anger, or hate, or self-pity, you'll wake up one day, old and bitter, and
wonder when the world stopped being bright and shiny.

Two: Keep it classy.

People do some awful things to each other. Don't add to that misery. You
don't, and shouldn't, have to love everybody, but don't go out of your way to
be a dick.

Three: Realize that it's never too late.

You can't fix past mistakes. You can fix future ones. If you regret doing, or
not doing, something, then use that as a template for how you want to live
from now on.

------
thomasfl
The developer who hasn't coded assembler in his yoth is crazy. The seasoned
programmer coding assembler is also crazy.

------
jseliger
I am in my twenties. That being said, I would answer your question in book
form -- that is, books that changed the way I do things and view the world and
that I wish I'd read when I was younger:

1\. <em>Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience</em> by Mihaly
Csikszentmihalyi

2\. <em>The Guide to Getting It On</em> by Paul Johannides [sp?]

3\. <em>The Mating Mind: How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human
Nature</em> by Geoffrey Miller

4\. <em>Hackers & Painters</em> by Paul Graham

5\. <em>Man's Search for Meaning</em> by Viktor Frankl

6\. <em>Stumbling on Happiness</em> by Daniel Gilbert

7\. <em>The Time Paradox</em> by Philip Zimbardo.

That last one is particularly important: it points out that, once you've
reached a comfortable but, for a highly educated person, relatively low level
of income (around ~$40K for an individual), additional income increases do not
matter for very for overall happiness.

What does? Friends, family, your sex life, meaningful work.

What _doesn't_ help for happiness? TV. See the journal article "Does watching
TV make us happy?" by Bruno S. Frey, Christine Benesch, and Alois Stutzer for
more on the answer: "no."

------
mindcrime

      I only beseech your wisdom about what mistakes/naivetes 
      I'll incur in my twenties
    
    

Strangely enough, a lot of the things you look back on as being "silly" from
high-school, really aren't. From a certain point of view. You can only _truly_
live in "the now" and what seems important right now, really _is_ what's
important right now. Not to sound fatalistic, but we're not guaranteed
anything, not even to wake up tomorrow.

That said, probably the biggest thing I look back on my twenties and think "I
was wrong about this" about is this: When I was in my twenties, I had no
conception of just how short life is, and how quickly some opportunities can
vanish. So I was _too_ patient. I believed "patience is a virtue" (and in some
ways it is) but I was probably too patient, too willing to take my time and
"wait for things to develop." In retrospect, there are times when being more
aggressive and forcing the issue is called for.

Like Bon Jovi sang:

    
    
      Luck, it ain't enough, you gotta make your own breaks. 
      It's my life. It's now or never. I ain't going to live 
      forever. I just want to live while I'm alive ...
    

Sometimes you really have to say "fuck it, I'm making this shit happen and I
ain't waiting."

The kicker is, there _are_ still times when patience IS a virtue. The tough
part is telling the difference. So if I had any advice for 20-something, it
would be to think long and hard about situations and opportunities, do some
"scenario analysis" and really consider when it's necessary to go balls out
and go for broke and be aggressive.

I wish I could say there's an easy way to tell the difference, but even now at
37, I still don't know for sure. But at least be aware... You can't always
just wait, wait, wait.

------
JacobAldridge
As a single data point - supporting the idea that your own experience is far
more valuable than listening to me talk - I continue to get massive value from
this (under-rated imho) essay: <http://www.paulgraham.com/gap.html>

~~~
Zarkonnen
I actually have to disagree with you. I think that's a terrible article. The
core idea, that truly competent and motivated people are orders of magnitude
more productive than others, is true. But the rest of it is a bad
justification for centuries of inequality and exploitation. It confuses Is and
Ought To by assuming that any market outcome is always morally good. It
ignores the environment, society, and history, while claiming to be more
"reality-based" than opposing views.

------
doron
Travel as much as you can, in your country and abroad. Learn to appreciate
other cultures, experience deserts, jungles, frost and balmy beaches.

Try to learn at least one other language, just enough to get you by. Try to
live in different places. Major cities, small towns, every environment will
teach you something.

Learn to appreciate the arts.

Avoid cynicism as much as you can, it is often a mask for inexperience,
apathy, and fear.

Enjoy a good argument that challenges your assumptions, be prepared to change
your opinions when faced with new facts, do not seek information just from the
sources that feel compatible to you, cultivate media literacy.

------
grandalf
a few thoughts:

\- don't be intimidated by people who are a few years older and a lot cockier.

\- don't worry about having a job / making money. Just get by and build the
skills you want. Take risks. Money is easy enough to earn and should not be
the primary concern at first.

\- Avoid financial over-extension. No credit cards, avoid loans, etc.

\- 30 is the new 20. Seriously.

\- This sounds cliche, but "ship lots of stuff". Iterate.

\- When you meet cool/talented people, collaborate on a small project to get
an idea of how strong they are. The real stars will jump out at you.

\- Find an obsession and seriously try to live it for at least 2 years. Doing
that gets harder and harder the older you get.

------
Vivtek
Find a girl. Settle down. If you want, you can marry.

(Look at me - I am old, but I'm happy.)

~~~
alexwyser
Father and Son?

~~~
Vivtek
You _still_ can't beat Cat.

------
edanm
One of the most inspiring lectures in history, filled with life lessons, is
Randy Pausch's "Last Lecture":

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo>

Watch it. Many times.

------
raphar
From my personal experience: \- No one knows shit about they are talking about
(As a corollary of life's too complex for the human mind. Or the fact that
there are plenty of black swans)

You may be THE expert on whatever subject.... and you'll never know all your
variables. It's imposible to always be right. It's useless to pretend so
(unless you are selling something). Examples??? you'll find them in the news
all the time. Subprime crisis, BP spills, etc

Do not believe what you are told. Take it as OPINIONS. And decide from that.

------
motters
Some advice I'd give to people in their 20s entering the technology business
is:

Don't accept "I give you my word" as part of any business negotiation or
contract. This probably applies more in the UK, where there is a
tradition/myth of gentlemanly conduct between professionals. On a couple of
occasions in my 20s I got caught out in situations where the business partner
had seemed to be completely trustworthy and had "given their word" that they
would do the right thing.

Try to live a modest lifestyle, and save money. In the technology business
companies come and go, and you can never rely upon continuous employment. Even
in Europe, where there is supposedly a social security "safety net", there
will be times when you need to fall back on savings made during the good times
(this is assuming that you don't have wealthy parents).

Even if your job appears totally secure, it isn't. When you don't have much
experience behind you it is possible to be lulled into a false sense of
security. It doesn't matter how big the company is, or how illustrious the
clients.

If you're doing contract work, always read the terms of the contract and be
prepared to negotiate over clauses that you don't like. Signing up to stuff
without reading it can get you into trouble.

In the software world focussing your career around one language or platform
can be a mistake. Learn as much as you can about a variety of systems. I
didn't make this mistake myself, but saw people who did. Don't let yourself
become a language zealot, and avoid closing your mind off to other
possibilities.

------
damoncali
-You ARE ready. Don't worry that it doesn't feel like it.

-"Long Term" is shorter than you think.

-Follow YOUR interests, not someone else's.

-Make sure you get the paperwork right.

-Money doesn't make people happy. It just makes some problems go away. Don't confuse one for the other.

-Listen to the "grey hairs", but don't just blindly follow them.

-When it seems like everyone else is being stupid, you might be right. But you're probably wrong.

-Never count on being smarter than everyone else. You're not.

-Luck is a handy substitute for knowledge. But you have to purposefully acquire either.

------
bootload
_"... I only beseech your wisdom about what mistakes/naivetes I'll incur in my
twenties, oh the elders of the Hacker News ..."_

\- value life: that as bad as things may get never loose sight that the
objective is to get old. [0]

\- time: doing a little, a lot adds up. So practice that "foo" or do that
"bar" over a long period of time the repeated task adds up. Be generous in
your time with others. Time is the ultimate gift.

\- be good: if you see something wrong fix it, something bad speak up as evil
triumphs when seemingly good people do nothing.

\- work on something of value: don't waste your time on trivial crap of
marginal value. Work on something that is/or will be valuable now or in the
future.

\- learn perspective: laugh at your misfortune, cry at injustice and don't
fret at things lost.

\- work hard: don't do things half-arsed.

\- have fun when doing: because it makes things a whole lot more interesting.

\- learn from mistakes: don't make the same ones twice.

\- evaluate: don't take things at face value, evaluate and adjust to your
environment such as work, friends, values.

\- rest: learn that there is a time to work, a time to play and time to rest.

 _"... I'd like to cheat in life and instead of learning my life lessons the
hard way, I'd like to skip ahead and read the ending of the current chapter
that I'm currently on ..."_

If you don't get burnt, how will you learn from these lessons? You really only
learn from experience.

[0] After catching up with some mates last week I was amazed at the number of
(male) mates who killed themselves in there 20's for what at the time seemed
important but in hindsight trivial.

------
ivankirigin
Everything was really easy for me, all through undergrad. I think it hurt my
diligence in studying.

Because I remembered everything in lectures, I aced tests without reading a
lot of the content. I feel like that hurt my depth of knowledge in areas.

I wish I had been told that skill is entirely learned and nothing innate. I
thought I was naturally talented, but now I attribute it mainly to the
curiosity parents instilled in me.

~~~
ljlolel
+1, same thing happened to me. Only this past semester when I took 8 classes
did I realize the value of diligence.

By the way, hope Facebook is going well Ivan!

------
todayiamme
_Disclaimer: I am not even 19 yet. So take this comment with an ocean full of
salt._

I have failed in my life more times than I can remember. In fact, everything I
have ever done has been a failure at some level or the other. All of my plans
to get myself out of the rut and actually do something with my life have
failed.

I have so many shortcomings that I can't list them in a book let alone a
comment, but pitfall has taught me something. Never ever give up. It is
something so cliched, but somehow it's the essence of life. All of the advice
above me has taught me a lot, but the thing is that while implementing that
advice you _will_ fail.

You will fail again and again and again. I really hope that life has dealt you
a fair hand, but sooner or later you will feel like everything is lost, and
that life is no longer worth living. Don't listen to yourself at that time.
Give yourself time, and just get up and start moving. I really do hope that
you don't have to experience this, but it is quite true.

It is something so obvious, but something really hard to do when you are in
that situation. I _really_ hope that you never ever go through that pain, but
whenever you do just remember that life is worth far more than what we can
ever imagine.

Other than that rather obvious piece of advice I would suggest that you should
surround yourself with people who care about you. Find your family. It doesn't
matter if it is united by biology or sheer love, but you need people in life
to love you and give you those small things that we all take for granted.

I know just how corny this sounds, but I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't
for this. Whenever you know that you are loved unconditionally it gives you a
sense of security and peace that no amount of money in this world can buy.
Those people are the ones that make your life worth living, and help you to
achieve your goals.

------
cmos
\- Go with your gut reaction - that's all you have right now, until you build
up experience. But listen to that small voice that says 'hey, this isn't
right' and don't let people talk you out of it, even when you don't have a
logical argument to pose to them.

\- Be the person who helps old people, who holds the door for everyone, who
goes out of your way to help people. There is nothing sweeter than improving
the quality of someone's life.

\- Money means nothing. Don't loan money to people - just give it to them if
they need it more than you.

\- Be very very careful about the implications of raising money for a startup.
Taking investment means you are beholden to your investors to create a return.
So if the company you are starting is your dream, your life, your everything
be so aware that you are indeed selling this dream and you are no longer the
master of it.

\- Always be the better person. Time and time again people will crap upon you,
and how you react is truly a measure of what kind of person you are, and how
people will judge you. Don't complain, don't whine. Forgive and forget.
Surprise people with your compassion and always help your 'enemies' be better
people, even if they are making your life miserable.

\- killer meal to cook for that special someone (if your not an amazing cook):
get a couple fillet's of white fish + put a ton of lemon pepper on them +
throw them in the oven until they break up easily. Steam broccoli or
asparagus.

\- Floss daily.

\- Look around and choose which friends you will have in 10 years. Those are
the relationships to foster. A good friend means you can go years without
talking, then pick up right where you left off.

\- Be comfortable being alone. Love being alone. If you truly believe you are
amazing, other people will too. Charm will get you further than you can
imagine.

\- Always tip well.

------
postfuturist
Avoid religions or any kind of dogmatic systems. I wasted most of my 20's as a
fervent, fundamentalist Christian. I don't have many regrets, but the ones I
do have are a result of that. Develop your own moral sense, don't let anyone
dictate that to you. Keep an open, critical mind. Whatever you take as
absolute, unquestioned truth will cage you.

------
WalterBright
Floss your teeth. Every day. Your older self will thank you.

~~~
infinite8s
Agreed. There are a lot of minor defects you can hide when you get older, but
bad teeth is not one of them. And getting them fixed costs a lot of money!!

------
brosephius
\- one of the keys to success is being likable. skills/talent alone won't
carry you to the top. they can take you far, but if you want to be a star, you
gotta know how to hustle. i.e., networking, getting your name/face out there,
being likable. if, like many on HN, you want to be an entrepreneur, never stop
selling yourself.

\- never, ever put off pursuing things that interest you, because if you get
in this habit you'll find years fly by where you did nothing but work and
watch tv. and on the same token, never ever let regret about your past
decisions hinder you from making the right ones going forward.

\- never feel superior because you're younger. yes, society is biased when it
comes to age, but focusing on your age as if you're some sort of wunderkind is
immature and a huge turnoff.

~~~
lsc
> \- one of the keys to success is being likable. skills/talent alone won't
> carry you to the top. they can take you far, but if you want to be a star,
> you gotta know how to hustle. i.e., networking, getting your name/face out
> there, being likable. if, like many on HN, you want to be an entrepreneur,
> never stop selling yourself.

My experience has been that this has little to do with being likable. In my
experience, most less-technical people prefer confident behavior. Behavior
that I (and many technical people) would characterize as arrogant.

If I was advising a younger self, I'd point out that self-aggrandizement, to a
certain degree, is acceptable and even good. I seemed to figure it out on my
own, though.

but, uh, yeah. being confident enough to promote yourself, on the balance,
seems to be more important than not being an asshole. (now, if you can promote
yourself without being an asshole, that's even better. I'm just saying, if you
have to make a choice, it seems that being a self-aggrandizing asshole seems
to be better than being quiet and shy, I mean, as an Entrepreneur. As an
Engineer, the equation is somewhat different.)

------
crististm
That persuasion is about rational explanations (it's not).

~~~
lhnz
Good point, and I'll add that this book is a good place to get started:
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/006124189X>

------
silverlake
People aren't rational. Learning about behavioral economics and Kahneman's
list of cognitive failures in the early 90s (before the current boom) made me
analyze my thinking and others more carefully. As someone else said, most
smart people aren't really that smart. They are brilliant at rationalizing
their impulsive conclusions. Where I once obsessed about what others thought
of my ideas, now I can scavenge their arguments for a few morsels of good
advice.

Also, stop being embarrassed about stuff. No one is looking at your zit or
stained shirt or messy hair. It's called the spotlight effect: we think people
are noticing the things we are self-conscious about. Everyone is too busy
worrying about their own self-image.

------
z80
Learn by fucking up. It's as simple as that. You will gain friends and loose
some too, as well as girlfriends or any other person. But in the end, you will
learn what's The Right Thing and your friends will be true friends and your
GF/Wife/SO will be a person who respects and love you regardless of your
flaws.

Being 36, father of three, married for the second time and doing pretty well
for myself these days, I can of course only relate to my own experiences of
life.

But I'm pretty sure that if I've asked anyone the question you're asking 15
years ago, I would have gotten some advice on how to get by in life, but I
wouldn't have understood why the advice given to me was the right way.
Experience gives you that understanding.

z80, Sweden

------
mortenjorck
At 27, there is one thing I've learned that would have been quite helpful at
22:

"I'm not ready for that yet" is the magic word for a lifestyle of stagnation
and missed opportunities. You're right! You're not ready, but the thing is,
you never will be unless you just do it.

------
fezzl
That things will usually turn out better than I expect. It's important to have
realistic (read: deliberately-lowered) expectations in life. I always find
that I am objectively better off when I don't burden myself with out-of-reach
ambitions.

P.S.: I'm a college sophomore.

------
runjake
37, here. One of my <=20s naiveties:

\- That the old saying "you can do anything" is hogwash. It gets parroted by
your teachers and parents without a thought, but it's totally true. It comes
down to how bad you want it and what you're willing to sacrifice.

------
Terry_B
I recently asked a question that got a lot of responses along these lines.
Hope you get even more! <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1366217>

------
garply
This is not an answer (as I am mid-twenties), but rather a related question:

I have been told by many people more successful than I that I should always
try to be friends with people older than I. How can I do this?

~~~
midnightmonster
I don't consider myself to have a lot of friends, but I'm 28 and virtually
everyone I do spend time with is older than me. I got married and had kids
young, so married and parenting peers are all older. I own my own web
development/consulting business, so my clients and business peers are all
older than me. My path works well if you started on it several years ago. If
you need a short cut, find any adult fraternal organization to join. Religious
and/or service-oriented will probably be most effective. For me it would be
the Knights of Columbus or Rotarians, to give a couple examples. I don't know
where you are or what exists there, but they can be a great way to meet older
people in the parallel- or team-work for a larger cause context that gives
people the opportunity to form friendships.

Also, among the reasons older people are useful besides connections is so that
you can learn from their wisdom or lack of wisdom. (It can be useful to keep a
list for yourself of traits you want to root out and avoid so you don't become
that guy 20 years from now.) Usually you can do this learning by active
observation on your part, but sometimes people will feel compelled to teach
you explicitly. God knows I'm no expert at social graces, but most of the time
you probably have to let that ride, and strongly consider the possibility that
you deserved it. If you're sure you didn't, try to understand why they thought
you did.

------
strait
Experience the excitement of slapping yourself silly now instead of later,
because it will probably be much less enjoyable when you're older. Words of
wisdom.

------
frankus
I'll be 35 in like a week, but a few weeks ago I had a realization that has
allowed me to make a lot more sense out of things:

There is metaphysical loneliness ("What is my purpose in life?"), and
romantic/sexual loneliness ("I wish I had someone to share this with"), and
and they both suck and they feel kind of similar, but don't expect one thing
to fix both problems.

------
pizzaman
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4>

------
enf
Things will start going wrong with your body in your late 30s. I wasn't
expecting to be immortal, but I was expecting it to happen a bit later than
that.

Don't ever move from a place that you like to a place that you don't, because
circumstances will change and you will find yourself stuck there.

------
finin
I believed that I would always have hair.

------
SkyMarshal
The only things worth spending money on are knowledge (eg, books), experiences
(travel, etc.), and relationships.

Most things, at least beyond what's needed for utility (computer, shelter,
reliable car if you're not in a city with good transit) are ultimately an
unfulfilling waste of money.

------
pheon
in addition to the some excellent comments

1) you live in your own personal reality. what you see/understand/think/etc
others cant and what others can you dont. when you get this, it completely
changes your perspective on communication.

2) readup and learn to identify the different general personality types. and
understand how they view the world

3) you dont need permission from anyone. not your mom, your boss, your
friends/peers/gf/spose etc. if you want to start a company, JFD. want to
travel JFD. want to change jobs JFD. life is too short so beg for forgiveness.

4) dont seek out approval. meaning dont please your
friends/peers/gf/spose/boss/clients to get a pat on the head. dosent mean be
an asshole and dosent mean do do nice things for people. i means dont do
things to seek their approval

------
projectileboy
\- Define and prioritize your values. Most people never do this, at any age,
and that's too bad, it helps you make and live with hard decisions.

\- Read something, write something, and build something, every day.

\- It all comes down to an old Arab proverb: Take what you want and pay for
it.

------
fbnt
personal relationships > money

------
Keyframe
Probably most stupid thing was that I believed I had to do everything while
still in my 20's. Now that I'm entering the year of 30 later this year, I came
to realize that most productive period is ahead of me, for the next 30 or so
years.

------
dedward
Lots of good advice from others... I'll try not to repeat:

0) Regardless of what anyone says - you get one life, and one journey - and
the path you take is your own - there is no right or wrong one that anyone can
decide for you. It's subjective, and up to you to do what's right for you -
which could be anything from being the next Ghandi to being the next Hitler.

1) No matter how much you ask this (good for you) you're still going to be the
age you are and make mistakes. Mistakes are how you learn - and that's okay.

2) Don't leave everything for the future. live in the here and now, and
cultivate a lifestyle that takes care of your future as well as letting you
enjoy life now.

3) Avoid debt at all costs - even when all your peers, even the whole of
society seems to think it's "okay" to spend money you have and pay it back
later.

4) Avoid investments unless you _really_ understand them - there is nothing
fundamentally wrong with cash in the bank. (Despite all the peer pressure to
invest over the years, I've been disappointed by almost every single
investment I've made, and I've been quite happy at my choices to keep cash -
especially when markets crash and things go bad. That cash has kept me worry-
free and happy far more than any investment.) (Of course, I might be
completely wrong.. but you asked.) 5) As soon as you have an income, make sure
you are saving something every paycheck - build up a cushion and _keep_
building it up indefinitely. You should very quickly not care when payday is.
IT may seem like a burden at first, but it will very quickly become a source
of relief and enjoyment in life - and it keeps you open to far more
opportunities. 6) Happiness is something you cultivate internally and is
completely up to you - it is not based on ANY external factors unless YOU let
it be. Cultivate happiness in your life. 7) Drugs are bad. Some aren't as bad
as the media makes things out to be when you grew up, but they're still bad
compared to not doing them. (this includes drinking and even caffeine. I'm not
saying don't do them - I'm just saying, after a good chunk of your life has
passed, someone I met once told me he wished he hadn't done all the substances
he had done, and they weren't even what you'd consider _bad_ , and he is still
relatively healthy and quite successful.)

8) Variety is good. 9) Sleep is important. 10) Food and diet and exercise are
important. 11) You sort of start going downhill around 30 (You notice changes
in your body and mind - you realize you aren't going to live forever. The
better you take care of yourself before this point (and after of course) the
better you'll feel. Health breeds happiness. Don't wreck your health early -
you may not even realize you are doing it. Save some of it for when you are
older and can afford to blow some more brain cells on enjoyment - otherwise
you may not be able to. 12) Never feel stuck - life is full of opportunity and
happiness, and the world is a beautiful place. If you wake up and find you
don't see it that way, figure out why and do something about it. It's the
DOING that's important.

------
evilduck
Not to dismiss other people's advice, but the recurring theme in your post has
been seeking approval from others, and now you're doing it here.

Or...you're pandering to people's desire to talk about themselves.

------
JoeAltmaier
I used to think I could sum up life in a blog post.

------
JoeAltmaier
Don't cry over anything that can't cry over you.

------
dminor
Those stock options in the startup where you work aren't worth much, if
anything. The experience is very valuable though.

------
francoisdevlin
Learn to fight for something bigger than yourself, and do it for those that
aren't capable.

------
Jun8
Thing is, you cannot cheat this way. I've found that mostly it's pretty
useless to read valuable advice from from other people, you just have to live
through it yourself. As Morpheus says "No one can be _told_ what the Matrix
is, you have to see for yourself".

------
mkramlich
We are all born with a fatal disease called life. It will kill you eventually.
Use your time wisely. Wisely does not mean always working, nor always playing,
but probably some kind of balance. Combine work and play for the win.

------
scorpion032
I am perfect. Not naive in any way.

I am 25.

~~~
jarmop
In the year 2020, you'll find this post of yours - and have a hearty laugh.
How do I know? Because around 1998 I wrote quite similar sentiment...

~~~
tome
It seems to me that scorpion032's post is intended to be an ironic "naivity in
his 20's" rather than a statement he actually believes.

------
richieb
Here are my rules:

1\. Don't worry, be happy. 2\. If you don't use it, you loose it. 3\. Take
some chances

....richie

------
yread
Drink white beer only in reasonable amounts!

~~~
bittersweet
I love white beer (Hoegaarden, Wieckse Witte), anything wrong with it?

~~~
yread
Just that the yeast there can really make going to the toilet next day _much_
easier :)

------
skotzko
Love this thread, esp. as I'm in my 20s and directly benefit from it.

Biggest lessons that I've learned so far and would offer up are the importance
of VISION, FOCUS, and PERSEVERANCE. I offer these as someone who is directly
engaged in the struggle of walking my own path. I am by no means perfect or
even close to achieving all 3 of these points 100% of the time, but these are
the 3 that help me keep going. I hope this is helpful to you.

1) VISION: You must figure out who you really are and what you want to be, and
then be it with everything you've got. Most people you meet will have a set
notion of you that may not align with your vision of yourself. Don't follow
their vision. Find and follow your own.

Further, a lot of our 20s peers are doing "what they're supposed to do"
because they haven't put in the emotional labor to figure out "what they want
to do" and "who they want to be." As a result, they spend money and time on
things that don't matter and have no meaning. Don't be that guy. Figure out
who you want to be and what you _really_ care about. Then act accordingly.

I'd suggest literally writing out your vision. You will need it clearly
articulated and stored somewhere so that you can revisit it when you feel like
shit later on. There will be stretches of time where you think "why the hell
am I doing this, again?" You need to be able to revisit your vision and re-
inspire yourself with your own answer. More on this in #3.

2) FOCUS: Ignore the haters and avoid the losers. Be ruthless about how you
spend your time.

-Haters: Once you figure out #1, a lot of your acquaintances who are doing "what they're supposed to be doing" and were nice, become trolls. Your inner security, vision, and that you have the balls to go for it will highlight their lack thereof. Don't listen, don't react, just get back to work on your vision.

-Losers: the people you spend time around affect your thoughts, decisions, and actions. Don't hang out with people who are negative, unsupportive, or are just plain losers. They will bring you down and eventually, you will end up resenting them for doing so and yourself for letting it happen.

-Time: Time is the most valuable asset we have in our 20s, along with energy. Consciously choose what you spend time on, and who you spend time with. Don't spend time doing shit that doesn't matter or that you hate. Don't spend time around haters/losers.

Whatever it takes, cultivate and maintain a personal network of supportive,
positive, happy people. Doing so will make it orders of magnitude more likely
you will be supportive, supported, positive, and happy. We are deeply affected
by the people we spend time with.

3) PERSEVERANCE: No one said it would be easy to follow through on your
vision. Once you've got it (#1), and are able to start focusing in on it (#2),
JUST. KEEP. GOING. You will get knocked down. You will fail at times along the
way. You will feel like shit sometimes. When this happens, go revisit your
vision, your "why" (from #1), and put fuel back in your tank. Then... Just.
Keep. Going.

Again, I'm not "there" yet but these 3 things are what help me keep going and
give me confidence that I will make it. Best of luck to you on the journey --
and please, enjoy the ride!

~~~
skotzko
Some inspiration: I would sum this up visually by borrowing from Hugh MacLeod.
I imagine the combination of "the white pebble" and "three keys."

-White pebble: <http://gapingvoid.com/2009/04/09/the-white-pebble/>

-Three keys: <http://gapingvoid.com/2010/02/14/three-keys/>

------
torpor
A couple things from this forty-year old:

1\. If you want to have kids, do it sooner rather than later. The sooner you
have them, the better: they grow up so fast, you'll still have time in your
40's to enjoy life with them as teenagers, if you're lucky. If you leave it
too late, you'll be pretty disconnected from their teen lives, and hell ..
what 40-year old doesn't enjoy the odd jaunt with their teenage kids, eh? I
know I wish I'd had my kids a decade sooner .. and don't let anyone tell you
its hard, either. Its not hard, if you love them enough, to keep your lives
together and do well as a family. Family units are the strongest groups you
will ever find or belong to, if they are indeed a unit ..

2\. The wisdom of the Mob. It doesn't exist in nearly as palatable a form as
most people might desire, and there is also the ugly truth that the Mob can be
downright stupid. Collective truth is often full of lies. You would be wise to
exercise your ability to disassociate yourself from collective thought as
often, and as early, as possible. This means, always question "what everyone
else knows to be true" four, five, six times, before you use it as a basis for
life decisions .. The Mob wishes to Eat you, Individual, and Never Forget
That!

3\. Save. Save, save, save. 10% of your money saved on a regular basis now is
a huge relief in the future. I wish I'd enforced this on myself a bit better
in the 20's .. you simply cannot avoid the fact that if you save during your
most productive years, your least productive years will be better off for it
..

~~~
eru
> 3\. Save. Save, save, save. 10% of your money saved on a regular basis now
> is a huge relief in the future. I wish I'd enforced this on myself a bit
> better in the 20's .. you simply cannot avoid the fact that if you save
> during your most productive years, your least productive years will be
> better off for it ..

I just got my first a few months ago and opted to save more than 20% of my
gross income (tax-free, you pay taxes when you get it out later). I wasn't
used to the money anyway, yet, so it was easy.

Also, if you are not saving already: I guess whenever you get a raise, you can
comfortably afford to save like 50% of it--because that money isn't planned
into your budget, yet.

~~~
derwiki
One step further: if you get a raise, take all of the associated money and
save it. The standard of living you're used to will stay the same.

~~~
eru
If you can do pull it off, do so. I might even try it myself.

But saving "only" 50% of your raises is something everybody can do without too
much discipline, and still feel rewarded with a higher standard of living for
whatever they did to get the raise. (Unless it's an automatic raise, and not
something you got for some achievement.)

------
fleitz
The best advice is: Relax, it's going to be ok.

Everyone takes their own path in life. Listen to others but find your own
path.

When you wake up in the morning ask yourself are you happy? If yes keep doing
what you are doing.

If no, ask yourself if you could do something to change that, if you can then
do that, rinse wash repeat.

If you can't do anything about it be happy anyway.

In short, just be.

~~~
hardik
Does this imply staying in your comfort zone? Is this not counter-productive?

~~~
ErrantX
Depends; if you like being in your comfort zone _and can maintain that
indefinitely_ whats the problem?

~~~
fleitz
The nice thing about being human is you only have to maintain it for about 80
years.

~~~
hardik
I find myself kicking me out of the zone just as it is created. Sometimes it
is tiring, working on it (working on both, that is, "being comfortable" as
well as not getting out too soon :) )

------
dnsworks
\- You owe nothing to your employer. \- If you give more than 2 weeks notice,
you are sucker \- Your employer will not be loyal to you \- All healthy public
companies gross a minimum of $200k per employee. This means you should NEVER
feel guilty about insisting on the salary that you feel you deserve. \-
Working for other people SUCKS \- If your closest friend is a woman, and you
want to date her best friend, ask her first. Just do it, life will be easier.
\- Confidence is more important than any other skill. \- Learn an alcohol,
Wine or Whisky, and become fluent enough in it to fill those awkward gaps at
networking events. (Warning, you'll take sides, and if you go whisky, the wine
people will annoy the hell out of you with their pageantry.)

------
ahoyhere
Don't compromise in order to get attention, things, connections, or money. Not
only can everyone else tell (at least subconsciously) when you're faking it,
but you will feel miserable.

That's not to say you shouldn't endeavor to be polite and respectful to
everyone -- or that the world should accept you _just as you are_. (That's a
knee-jerk, chip-on-the-shoulder reaction to be unwilling - afraid - to
change.)

But it does mean that if you fake being friends with someone just to get
something - if you fake being interested in a business because you just want
the money - if you fake being passionate about a topic because you want the
rewards...

You'll feel hollow inside, and miserable, and end up hating yourself, whether
your plan "works" or not.

------
startuprules
\- Try not to get married until after you're 30. By the your libido will have
waned a bit, and you will have a clearer head and greater experience to see
what kind of person you'd like to spend your life with

\- Try not to have a kid until after you're 30. A kid cannot raise another kid

\- Try everything. That way you get to know what you like/hate.

\- Find something you're passionate about, and learn everything about it.

\- Don't incur huge debts in your prime. Do not buy
(car/house/woman/kid/plane/boat/land/friend) with credit.

\- Use your money for experiences. Those you'll remember and cherish.

\- Learn macroeconomics/history. You'll learn why the housing bubble occured,
why we're in a great depression, and how China will become the next empire.
Invest properly based on those learnings.

~~~
mmacaulay
As someone who just recently bought his first house, it seems unrealistic to
have saved up that _entire_ amount within any kind of reasonable timeframe.
Obviously, you should buy a house (and other things) that is within your
means, which is more what the housing bubble was all about IMO.

But I do agree with your general premise.

------
cianestro
Just remember you'll be dead all too soon and let life flow accordingly.

------
Zakuzaa
This should be reposted to Reddit as well.

