
Are My Friends Really My Friends? - dsr12
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/12/style/who-are-my-real-friends.html
======
ALee
Is it me or are we asking too much of our relationships? In the past,
relationships were based on proximity more than anything else, but now int he
world of endless choice, we seem to want more from our friends, our partners,
our co-workers, etc.

I think the whole thing is just so tiring. I think almost everyone I know
would do something if I were in trouble and if I asked them (to a point, I
don't know anyone who would want to take care of me for a month - even
myself).

I read recently that marriage is becoming the same thing where we want our
partner to be EVERYTHING - the drinking buddy, the confidante, the
psychological help, the travel partner... and supposedly that makes everyone
unsatisfied with their partner because it's such a stupidly tall order. Do we
hire people to do all those things for us too? On the other side though, if
you find that person, you get REALLY good marriages. I would suspect the same
is true with friendships. Instead of being worried whether a friend is a true
friend, just relish that you have friends who can serve different purposes in
your life and if you have a close one - enjoy it.

~~~
k__
What is wrong from wanting friends that can give you more than just proximity?

~~~
lostcolony
I think that's the wrong way of looking at it.

In the past, when proximity was the biggest thing, we'd look to invest more in
the people proximate to us.

They like something I don't? Okay, fine, I'll do it, so I have a friend. And
vice versa. I may not really care about doing X, but it's a way to connect.

Now? Now we are willing to keep looking. We want perfect friends. We are less
willing to invest time in people nothing like ourselves, because it's
comparatively easy to find others.

Even as i kid, I remember friendships that were basically "This kid is in my
neighborhood" or "This kid's parents go to the same church as my parents", and
that was it. Oh, they liked to rollerblade? Okay, I guess I'll learn to do
that. I like video games; they'd learn to like that. Etc.

Now? Now it's superhard; even places I'm proximate to others, why would I
choose to spend time with them outside of the one activity that brings us in
proximity?

~~~
k__
Sounds loke a strawman to me.

I didn't like the people where I grew up with and now I found people I like.

And I didn't have to be nice to someone "just to have a friend"

~~~
lostcolony
If you didn't like any of the people around you, I will point out the one
thing in common across all of those relationships.

I mean, I get it; I grew up in an extremely conservative area, while being
very liberal. I had to rub shoulders with kids of farmers who didn't value
education and etc. But if I wanted any sort of social life, I had to make due
with the people there, find those who I shared -something- with, and I did. I
found those with an interest in gaming, those who wanted something more out of
life than just staying there doing what their parents did, those who read,
etc, and in doing so I had to work harder, be more intentional, and expand in
ways I wouldn't have had I been able to just switch social circles easily
until I found one more palatable.

~~~
k__
I just found people online and moved away from the village after high school.

That was 14 years ago and I never looked back.

I found people who gave the feeling they really understood me.

In the village I had nobody, only a few secretly facist nerds who thought they
new everything there was to know...

~~~
subatomic
I think you're proving the point OP was making. In the past you found people
by proximity, as, not so long ago, there was no online.

------
leetcrew
disclaimer: i am only in my mid-twenties, so perhaps i lack sufficient
perspective on this topic. i can only compare the landscape today against my
childhood friendships.

i do remember having fewer, closer friends when i was younger. at the same
time, i don't feel that we had much in common other than being the same age,
in the same place, and being part of the "outgroup". i valued these
relationships very much (and still do), but they represented the exhaustion of
the local pool of viable friends. we spent so much time together and developed
strong bonds mainly because there was no clear way to access a more global
pool to select from.

today i have many acquaintances with whom i routinely share deep conversations
over very specific interests (even irl!), and it is relatively easy to find
more of these if i desire. while my social life is much more intellectually
rich, it is definitely harder to develop a trusted confidant; conversations
just never seem to naturally flow into that territory.

to me, it seems like the older style of friendship and the modern friendship
occupy different places on roughly the same pareto frontier. you can certainly
prefer one or the other, but i don't feel that either is intrinsically better.

~~~
everdev
Sometimes we think a friend does everything for us -- invites us out, listens
to us, shares with us, teaches us, dares us, helps us grow, etc.

Reality is certain people are better at certain things. Some friends will
always go out and show you a good time, but they're not going to challenge you
to be a better person. When you can accept them for the gifts they're willing
and able to give, that's when you're friends.

------
forvelin
This seems like some sort of a epidemic, the internet infecting the way of
relationship development we had for decades.

Now we know where to get jobs -job boards-, where to get relationships
-tinderlike apps and bars- but we have no idea for where to find people who we
click with.

~~~
jm__87
Personally I feel like many millenials (of which I am also one) just have too
many distractions we can indulge in at home by ourselves now (internet, social
media, youtube, netflix, video games), so there is no boredom to quench to
force yourself out of your house to do stuff. For me, turning off autoplay on
youtube and netflix, selling my video games, cancelling cable TV, quitting
Facebook and Reddit have all had a net positive impact on my life. Of course
there are still people in my generation who do go out and do stuff and you can
be one of them too if you choose to be.

~~~
ravenstine
I don't disagree, but I also think this isn't merely a generational thing.
I've long noticed my parent's generation slowly melting in front of TVs,
flipping between boring show after boring show, hardly spending time doing
other things or forming friendships. Millennials are really just like their
parents, but for them the TV remote became their mobile phones.

------
headsoup
I think there's a lot of people keeping 'casual' friends, just because they're
there (online). And by that I mean not like a forum where you log in and see
who's online or chat on topics of interest, in this case those 'friends' are
there ready to communicate instantly, all topics are presented, etc.

I.e. they like posts, comment and stay across events of vague acquaintances
because it's easier than 'un-friending' them (and maybe some FOMO too).

I.e.I.e. They're friends we'd otherwise do without, but yet put in light
effort just because and it adds up to more than expected.

------
Tomminn
My way of evaluating who my real friends are is by asking myself one question:
"Are these the people I'd want to be around if war broke out?".

Similarly, a question I often ask myself to make sure I'm not becoming trivial
and shallow: "Am I the kind of person people would want to be around if war
broke out?".

------
Canada
Back in the days when IRC ruled we were connected by interest instead of
proximity. I think most of those friends also faded but that protocol had no
persistence so we aren't reminded of them.

~~~
spdebbarma
I just want to say that IRC is still pretty much alive and kicking. Come back,
it's still as fun as it was.

~~~
eswat
I still hang around one channel for an Unreal Tournament (then Half-Life 2)
mod. 15 years at this point and some great people are still in there (and been
interesting to see how everyones lives have changed after meeting )

------
KhanMahGretsch
According to Aristotle [0], there are three types of friendship: friendship of
utility; friendship of pleasure; friendship of the good.

I find this to be a useful framework for considering the varying kinds of
platonic relationships one can have.

[0] [https://stpeterslist.com/the-3-types-of-friendship-
according...](https://stpeterslist.com/the-3-types-of-friendship-according-to-
aristotle)

~~~
watwut
Maybe he was wrong and oversimplified relationships.

------
technological
Life long friends can be formed anytime but I think you make such friends
during undergrad. Back in India during Engineering (i.e ungrad ) I made 8 life
long friends because it was age where I was bit mature and not childish
(compared to my time in school) , had no responsibilities (financial) and had
lot of time , so it was so nice to get along with ppl and make a good bond.
Compared to other phases of life where I am either childhish or there lot
competition between group of people where real motive of forming bond is
different.

------
hkmurakami
Put away the phone, and unfollow "friends" on social networks aggressively if
you're not a fan of the dynamics described in the article.

------
amelius
Perhaps we need a Twitter-like restriction: not a limitation of 140
characters, but instead a limitation of 140 friends.

~~~
mtgx
It's called Dunbar's number, and I agree all social media platforms should
have that limitation by default. Once you reach that number, all the rest
should be followers (if you agree to allow them to follow you).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number)

~~~
DrImplausible
So you're saying there /are/ things that the social sciences can contribute to
data science? This is my complete lack of surprise...

------
ravenstine
Friendship, as defined in this day and age, is overrated. It's my opinion, for
sure. But let me tell you why I feel this way.

As the article mentions, Gen Y's idea of socializing is having lots of
"friends" that remain as such because of technological ties, and chatting
through IM and photo sharing. The problem with this form of socializing, for
me, is that much of it is a result of everyone's ulterior motive to look good
and obtain social validation. In all honesty, I haven't proven to be a very
likable person, but I hesitate to have people add me as a "friend" on social
media because next thing I know they're going to include group photos of me in
order to covertly signal "I have so much fun and so many friends! Look at me!
Look at me!" Worse yet, they'll feel _that_ much better that I'm going to add
reactions to their banal postings, making them feel like everything they have
to say is socially approved of.

It's all gross.

By the by, I've learned that I can go very long periods of time without being
around friends(I'm talking months) and, well, I don't die. In fact, I'm pretty
happy that I can spend time doing what I want without being hounded to go see
X movie or hang out at Y place. Those things can be good here and there, but
they're not all life is about. Friends also tend to bring drama that brings
nothing to my life; most drama is hyperbole and people bring it upon
themselves. Those same drama-friends inevitably ask for advice, but not
because they actually want help, but because they want you to _validate_ the
decision they've already made.

I've had my periods in life where I felt terrible for having few or no
friends. There is definitely a downside, especially when you're younger. But
the pursuit of friends is a sign that a person is lacking self-esteem, and
perhaps confidence in the one or two friends they already have. As I've gotten
older, having friends for reasons other than just the simplicity of having
someone to shoot the shit with on occasion has fallen by the wayside. Just as
I've given up with the futile pursuit of working my ass off for the lie that
working hard is a virtue in and of itself, and as I've given up on trying to
pursue the illusion of salvation provided by relationships, I just don't even
care anymore about maintaining friends or social circles.

Yeah, it'd be one thing if I was literally alone for a very long time. But it
would actually take effort to be truly alone, I gather, for most people. No
matter where I've been, or how old I am, someone eventually manages to enter
my life and become more than just an acquaintance. We can chat it up on a
regular basis, and usually have enough familiarity that we know we can count
on each other for small things. It just seems to work out that way, and that
accounts for most of what I need out of people; I don't need to share every
moment of my waking being with them. Some people have got it tough, and I've
known some people who have real issues that hinder them in making even basic
connections with people. But, for the average person, I think they'd be
surprised to still manage to make friends even if they permanently turned off
all their devices.

I do have a best friend, and that is something special. We rarely see each
other anymore, but that's where confidence comes in. He and I have known each
other for long enough that, no matter what, we're always going to be friends.
If work gets in the way that means we won't see or even talk to each other for
months or years, it's like no time has passed when we do get to meet again. We
don't fret about these things because life really does move on whether we are
in the same room or not.

As great as that friendship is, I would function very much the same without
it. I hope it doesn't hurt my friend to read this if he ever does, although
I'm almost positive he would have guessed that of me, and I think he's much
the same. I've learned to be content enough with my own being, my own
thoughts, that the need for other people has been greatly diminished. I'm sure
some of that is simply a function of getting older, having had enough
experiences, and having one's hormones become increasingly scant.

Your friends are what you make of them, and I don't think a lot of people's
ideas of what makes a friend is worth as much as social media has made it
appear. It's really fine to simply accept that friendship can and usually does
have a very low bar, thus, if your friendships seem transient, it's just a
function of average people socializing with other average people, and
gradually meeting better people over time. Being content in your being and
valuing yourself means that this question of "Are my friends really my
friends?" isn't all that important.

------
snarfy
If you show up to my funeral I'll be happy.

~~~
phamilton
If you don’t go to folk’s funerals how can you expect them to come to yours?

