

Ask HN: Really tired of crappy languages. Time for MBA? - refocus

I'm working at a company that recently decided to move most of its future work into Java (instead of Python). Not Scala or Clojure, but actual Java-the-language Java. Needless to say, I'm not happy. Every company where I've worked at that uses C++ or Java as its main development languages lurches toward perpetual maintenance, huge teams, and general mediocrity.<p>Unfortunately, the leading languages are <i>still</i> C++ and Java. Jobs exist in good languages, but they're few and far between and it seems inevitable that a company will end up Java'd as it grows large and decisions start being made by non-programmers. (I think it's safe to assume that no one familiar with other languages ever chooses to program in Java; it's a language that people make <i>other people</i> use.)<p>I don't want to program anymore if 50% or more of my future programming career is going to be spent in shitty languages that prioritize the interests of non-programming managers over the people actually programming.<p>It just infuriates me to have to use shitty tools and be 10% as productive as I could be.<p>Is it time for me to leave the coding thing and get an MBA?
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brownegg
I think you need to drink something other than the Kool-Aid. Java has its
warts, but all languages do. Get over yourself.

~~~
refocus
I've been programming for 10 years and have used a wide variety of languages.
Lisp, Scala, Clojure, Python, Java, C++, C, Ocaml, Haskell, and Go, plus a
variety of math/statistical langauges.

Java/C++ development just isn't fun. It takes way too long to accomplish
simple things. In fact, the process sucks all the fun out of it. The
boilerplate is monstrous, the code looks like someone else wrote it, and there
isn't much interactivity to the process since the Java Way is to write and
tinker with monolithic, huge systems rather than create new things that can do
something useful within an afternoon.

ETA: All languages have flaws but it's still fun to program in, e.g., Python
or Scala. The flaws of these languages usually manifest in low-impact "well
shit, that's annoying" irritations, not systemic constantly-grinding drags on
productivity that will never go away.

~~~
SamReidHughes
It seems to me like getting a job using Python or Scala would be a much better
option then.

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Donito
You're thinking in the wrong order. You don't pick a language first, then
solve a problem with it. Instead, you should look at the problem you're trying
to solve, and which tools are best adapted to solving it given your
requirements (that you come up with).

Are you focused on creating something quick? something that scales? something
optimized that needs to run as fast as possible? something portable?

For some Python, Scala, or Clojure will do. For others, C++ is, despite what
you may call flaws, the language of choice.

That being said, if you're very attached to a specific technology, find a
place (or create one) where it makes most sense using it.

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SamReidHughes
Good programming jobs exist that focus on many languages, including C++ and
Java. How will getting an MBA increase your ability to get these jobs, or some
other job you like?

Oh and people do deliberately choose to write in Java. Mibbit is one example
of this.

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tolitius
" _Is it time for me to leave the coding thing and get an MBA?_ "

Do you need someone to tell you a "supportive" NO, or you want to hear an
encouraging "YES"?

Do you need MBA? Go for it. But don't blame Java.

Do you NOT need MBA? Don't go for it. But don't blame Java.

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joshontheweb
Try working for smaller companies or startups. There are plenty of Python/Ruby
jobs in that category.

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eli_gottlieb
No, not time for an MBA. Then you'll be the one imposing shitty languages on
everyone else.

Go _Learn You a Haskell_. That should cure you of the impulse to come near PL
for a while.

The rest is commentary.

~~~
refocus
_No, not time for an MBA. Then you'll be the one imposing shitty languages on
everyone else._

Actually, if I get an MBA I'd like to be a white knight, by which I mean the
rare good guy who carries a sword.

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kracekumar
Why not shift your company ?

~~~
refocus
In spite of my dislike for Java, I've found a good one (company, that is) and
I know how rare they are. If I can stay where I am, I'd rather. But if I'm
full-time Java 6 months from now, yes, that is what will happen.

