
At 38, am I too old for a startup? - bh
I've had an idea  that's been eating me up for 18 months. What's your position on 'older' founders and startups?
======
frazerb
How ironic to read this question this evening. I'm 38. Right now I am
finalising the documentation pack (16 documents in all!) to sell my second
company. It's two-and-a-half years old. We sign the documents in 12 hours
time. The company took no VC, but just a small amount of trade money. We're
selling out to our largest customer because they made us an offer we couldn't
refuse.

At 38 you are most certainly NOT too old to startup. At 38 your personal
circumstances may mean that you cannot take the same level of risk that you
could at 28 or 21. But if you are happy, healthy, and have a means of keeping
a roof over your head and your dependents' head, then go for it.

The very very worst that could happen is that you could find yourself looking
for a job in a few months time. But you'll be looking for that job with a
bunch more experience, and credibility, than you would have without having
tried to start something.

Best wishes to you. Enjoy it. And if your luck works out, you'll make a
fortune. If your luck doesn't work out, you'll hold with you a great
experience that you'll cherish forever.

~~~
bh
An inspiring story from a fellow old-timer! ;-)

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MaysonL
Hell, I'm 62, and I just started a project which may well turn into a startup
in the foreseeable future. Go for it!

~~~
MaysonL
WTF? Why did this get upmodded?

~~~
MaysonL
LMAOOL at the modding for parent and grandparent, both by me!

~~~
falsestprophet
Okay, you may be too old.

~~~
wheels
Or from the replies, perpetually too young.

------
brk
In all honesty, 38 is probably more "ideal" than "too old".

Been done plenty of times. Now get to work!

------
cmos
Kids are often inefficient and waste a lot of time just figuring stuff out and
making mistakes. Use your experience to your benefit and just make sure your
idea is something that you can do in the finite amount of time you might have
available to yourself.

I'm 34 and starting a new company while in the process of leaving my previous
one in capable hands.

Starting a company is saying to the world you are ready for a major change in
your life. This is a big step, one that shouldn't be taken lightly, especially
with a mortgage. But if your losing sleep over this idea at night, then it's
one that might be necessary. Even if it's a complete failure, you would have
succeeded in changing your life.

Cheers to that!

------
acegopher
No. I'm 38 and a year in as CTO of a startup while moonlighting on another
"hobby" business I've had for a couple of years.

Oh, and I have two kids, a wife, and a yard. I actually know my kids and they
know who I am :-). But, I don't watch TV, the only video games I play are with
my kids, and I'm having the time of my life.

You can do it. It's just a matter of desire and priorities. Me, I have more
fun getting code to run than watching TV or playing an RPG. And that's really
the only "sacrifice" I've made, and I think it's a rather good one,
personally.

------
brlewis
No, 38 is not too young. Sure, you'll get better as you get older, but there's
no reason not to start now. If it's a software startup, you'll want a good
codebase in place now before your kids get old enough to hack on it.

P.S. You put "am I too old" in the title. You might be able to get one of the
moderators to fix that typo.

~~~
DougBTX
(where is the typo?)

~~~
brlewis
must have meant "am I too young" since too old doesn't make any sense for 38.

------
byteCoder
If you think you're too old, then you probably are.

Age is a state of mind.

Actually, at 41 myself (and 3 months into my own startup), I find that as the
kids get older (7 and 11), I'm getting more time again to pursue my passions.

~~~
tjr
...and as the kids get older, they may even be interested in helping on the
startup!

~~~
byteCoder
Actually, as Nintendo DS enthusiasts, they form part of my application test
department already! ;-)

------
dcminter
Speaking as a 36-year old in the throes of testing his app I bloody hope not!
If you're sufficiently clear of responsibilities that you can do this, well,
you'll always regret it if you don't.

~~~
michaelneale
I guess the reasons PG and co recommend youung-uns are mainly:

1) Energy (physical, I guess) 2) No serious financial obligations 3) No family
obligations.

I think #2 is probably the biggest. However, if you are older and have no
debt/mortgage, plenty of everything, they why not. #3 you can't do anything
about really, but as long as you don't mess with #2, the #3's in your house
won't be too upset.

Also having kids teaches you to sleep efficiently and economically (you sleep
when you can).

I find it fascinating to watch startups, I think its an awesome thing to do.

------
michael_nielsen
This paper gives data showing that 38 is not too old:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=180204>

(That submission got no votes at all, which greatly surprised me, given how
often people discuss this here.)

~~~
jcl
Part of the problem may be that the article is a pdf, and you have to create
an account to read it.

~~~
michael_nielsen
I didn't need an account to read it. A direct link is here:
[http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID1127877_code...](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID1127877_code861608.pdf?abstractid=1127248&mirid=1)

~~~
jcl
Oops... my cookies were messed up; I managed to download the article. I note,
though, that the link you provided isn't a direct link. They must be checking
referrer to discourage direct links... Annoying!

------
radley
I"m a YC start-up founder @ 39. I thought I was going to be the oldest, but
there was another in the same cycle that had me beat by four months.

It's not a matter of age, it's just a matter of managing commitments.

~~~
nir
Cool. I always thought YC aims for kids in early 20s - with the $5k/mo model
etc.. Are your co-founders also in their 30s?

~~~
radley
My partner is 25 & matches the more common YC image (it's an unusual match-up,
but works really well).

The other 39 y/o from my cycle was part of a team of 30-somethings.

------
noodle
as long as you feel you have the time/flexibility/energy/whatever to make it
happen, you're not too old.

the standard difference is that younger people tend to have more flexibility
in failure -- if they don't succeed they can still get a regular job and
retire and live happily ever after. they don't have a family, a house,
sometimes don't have a car, are comparatively more healthy, etc. its easier to
live off of nothing, bootstrap themselves, and fail gracefully.

a prototypical older person has more responsibilities, has bills to pay, has a
family to support, etc.. there's more of a need of a steady income stream. if
you feel like you're in a situation to be able to follow your idea and still
uphold your responsibilities, then go for it.

------
ucdaz
Why should it even matter?

Ask yourself these questions:

1\. Do you have passion behind your idea?

2\. Can you execute your idea to fruition?

3\. If not now, when? When your 50? 70?

Don't live life asking yourself "What if?" Give it a try before you dig
yourself into a deep hole.

------
ojbyrne
44 when I co-founded digg. Go for it.

------
dboyd
At 39 I work in a startup. I would say that mid-thirties is probably the ideal
age to get involved with a startup. Both the founders for which I work are
also 'mid thirties'. At that age you probably have enough experience to be at
a great advantage over people in their 20s.

Good luck!

------
tptacek
No.

~~~
bootload
_"... At 38, am I too old for a startup? No ..."_

So is there any logic behind this or just a quick response?

------
matthewsimon
You're definitely not too old -- I'm 36, and my co-founder is in his forties.

Possible drawbacks to older founders include: \- may not be able to work for
free (or nearly so) for as long a time, because they have families to support
(or have simply grown accustomed to a higher standard of living than ramen and
crashing on someone's couch). \- may not be able to work for as many hours per
week, again because of families, accustomed comfort, etc.

On the positive side, older founders are: \- more likely to have the business
and professional relationships that will facilitate customer sales and/or
investor deals. \- may be able to work more efficiently and effectively,
because of the things they have learned (technology, management, specific
domains, business, etc).

There might be some business plans that can best be executed by college-age
folks, but there are others that are best executed by someone older -- figure
out how to make your idea work for you, and go for it!

------
t0pj
I'm currently exploring a "What If" idea.

I'm designing my first web site.

I can only do it during nights and weekends.

I'm happy.

I'm 35.

I will never quit.

~~~
senthil_rajasek
"I will never quit." Amen to that!

------
Prrometheus
You're probably too old to quit your job, live in a one bedroom apartment with
two other dudes, and eat Ramen for six months. But you're probably not too old
to start something as a side project with your friends and see if it goes
somewhere.

~~~
bh
Heh, probably true. :) I keep hearing about this Ramen stuff here on HN - I
think I missed out!

~~~
jrsims
You most certainly did not miss out.

------
FredSAN
It's not your age that counts, but your level of PASSION (and the target
market), as some wise man once said, "There's no OFF switch on a successful
entrepreneur". Col. Sanders was in his seventies when he started KFC. But ...
it really depends on your level of debt and risk aversion. And of course, if
you have a significant other then he/she must share your passion otherwise
you'll either drop out or your significant other with be very EX! Starting a
business will not get you out of debt quickly (if ever) but further into debt
until you start making more than you spend.

------
ajbatac
Age doesn't matter as long as you have a product, solves a problem, it's
growing and profitable.

------
aggieben
The average age of a startup founder in the U.S. is 35.

~~~
t0pj
FYI.

I'm meeting up with the Python folks at the Denny's in Addison off of Belt
Line tonight @ 7.

I'd still like to get together and talk for a spell.

I think the last time we exchanged e-mails was back in April.

I'll shoot ya another e-mail.

~~~
aggieben
Sorry - couldn't make it tonight. Too short a notice for a guy with a family
(it takes a couple days to coax the wife into letting me go)

------
lisper
I'm 44 and I just started on my fourth.

~~~
huhtenberg
How did the first three go if you don't mind me asking ?

~~~
lisper
Sorry for not responding sooner. Hacker News needs an active message flag like
Reddit has.

The first one (flownet.com) failed. Never made a dime. Never found an
investor. But we had working (hardware) prototypes.

The second one (indiebuyer.net) made some revenue but ultimately ran out of
money and folded.

The third one was acquired by Richard Branson and is now Virgin Charter. (That
wasn't an exit, so I still haven't made any money from it. But it's looking
promising. At least it's still in business, and doing well last I heard.)

The fourth one is looking pretty promising as well. (Actually there's a fifth
one too, which is also looking pretty good.)

So I've been at it off and on for fifteen years (we started FlowNet in '93)
and I still haven't made a dime off a startup of my own. But I think I'm
getting better at it :-)

------
bh
Thanks for the enncouragement. I wonder what YC's position would be?

~~~
pg
We've funded people older than that. In some types of startups it's the ideal
age. E.g. if you want to build a factory or make enterprise software, or do
something else that requires lots of capital and/or industry experience.

~~~
j2d2
Some domains carry a crowd that will eat the naive alive. I cannot imagine
someone starting a financial tech company being younger than their 30's.

~~~
SwellJoe
While I agree that experience can be a benefit in many industries (and I'm 33,
have been working around my current industry for about 10 years, and I think
that's been a big benefit to my current startup), I also think naivety can be
a far more powerful defense than your comment would indicate.

Not knowing about the old boy networks and the "way things are done" can be a
benefit to a small and nimble startup. The fact is that economics and the
requirement to get things done will _occasionally_ be able to trump "the way
we've always done it", and by the time you've signed on two or three clients
that way, you can find your way into that network and learn how things are
done. And, in the meantime, you've built products that offer better value
(because you had to, and your competitors didn't) and a business that is run
very lean (because you had to, and your competitors didn't).

~~~
comatose_kid
I wonder if older founders could hack that problem by starting up in an area
outside their expertise.

~~~
SwellJoe
Very likely. I've also noticed that whenever you put a hacker into just about
any non-technical field, they can very quickly spot dozens of areas of
inefficiency that could be resolved with a little technology.

Often, the problems aren't even hard. Barcodes added to all forms being filed
by customers, or added to "things" in the warehouse, or organized in a
database rather than on the shelf (like Zappos does), etc. And a lot of non-
technical industries make a lot of money...saving a few dozen companies a few
dozen million each year via automation is a recipe for a beautiful lifestyle
business.

I did IT work for a guy in Austin that served court papers...a totally low-
tech industry. Individual guys (and a few rugged gals) drive out to peoples
houses and personally deliver divorce court summons, etc. The guy I worked for
began automating his company in the late 80's or early 90's, several years
before anyone else, and by the time I stopped working for him, I believe he
had the largest process service company in Texas (and, probably the nation,
since Texas is mighty big), though all are privately held, so it's hard to say
for sure who was "biggest", but he covered nearly the whole state and almost
everyone else only covered one or two cities, and had several million in
revenue from ~30 or so employees and ~100 independent field agents. Anyway,
there was tons of low-hanging fruit in this industry because it had never been
automated before. And because he had lots of process servers on his payroll
and many lawyers/legislators that he worked with on a regular basis, he got to
shape policy with regards to how it all worked. The state opened up electronic
filings with many of its legal papers around 2005, which gave him an even
bigger leg up on the competition, because all of his data was already going
into a database.

I'm just saying that technical people might be well-served by looking at
currently non-technical industries for their golden goose. There are plenty of
industries still to be saved from tedium by making computers do more of the
work.

------
dex
Are you mad? Since when does age preclude anything.

Age=experience, which is something a lot of investors are looking for. If you
have a startup "itch" then scratch it.

I have friends who have been in the same situation and have not acted. They
played safe, but there is always this nagging in their mind - what if I had
done it? That does not go away.

~~~
bh
That's what I'm worried about.

I've had three other attempts over the last 20 years, the first when I was
17/18. None of them really took off.

I've been sort of hoping this idea would go away (a sort of 'oh no, not again'
feeling), but it won't!

Maybe this is the big one?

------
mpc
38 is not old

~~~
huhtenberg
Not if it's in hex :)

------
eventhough
Do you have kids? Family? Mortgage? Are you going to help your kids pay for
college? What about parents? Do you have to help them out at all? Will you be
able to purchase affordable health insurance?

~~~
geebee
These are the right questions. People often pose the question as a matter of
age, which is almost certainly not the determining factor. I will concede that
there may be _some_ loss of endurance with age that makes the startup thing
harder.

I suspect that the OP just wants a bit of reassurance that he's not too old
for this. Of course he's not. 38 isn't too old at all.

I'm 36, and I wouldn't try to start a startup right now. But that's mainly
because I have, as you said, a pregnant wife, a three year old, and a
mortgage. However, I know a few people who aren't even deterred by those
things and do work for startups. I even know a founder in that situation. He
is excruciatingly busy, though, and I know that it does take a toll on his
personal life.

By the way, I think that working for startups and founding a startup are often
completely different things. In the tech heavy bay area, I don't think that a
talented programmer assumes all that much risk by joining a well funded
startup, because if things head south they can often get a well paid new job
within a month or two. Furthermore, "stable" jobs often aren't as stable as
they seem - especially if they allow you to let your skills get rusty.

So personally, I think that working for a small startup that pays decently and
gives you some nice equity isn't all that bad an idea. However, you won't (and
probably shouldn't) get anywhere near the kind of equity that the folks who
ate ramen and crammed into a 2br apartment for 18 months get. Instead, think
of it as an exciting job with a nice potential upside (I know a few parents
who scored that nice upside).

------
isakovic
Jeff Bezos started Amazon.com when he was 40.

~~~
coliveira
In fact, he was 30.

~~~
isakovic
Touché.

~~~
augustus
You probably want to talk about Henry Ford who in fact started when he was 40.
Ray Kroc (McDonalds) was in his 50's when he got the McDonalds franchise
going.

------
philswenson
if you are asking the question, then you probably are not in a good position.
but it has nothing to do with being 38

------
Kilimanjaro
The good thing about the internet is the older you get the better. I bet you
when I am 105 I'll be running another startup, while doctors, lawyers or
teachers won't even be able to walk to their workplaces. All I will need is an
input device attached to my weelchair. No kidding folks.

------
omfut
I don’t think age is a factor for starting a company. I think age is a state
of mind. . Anyway, if you have the passion for the idea, nothing can stop you
from achieving what u want. It is this passion that has been driving some of
the great folks in the industry

------
chaostheory
Someone correct me, but I think King Gillette started in his forties,
inventing something people wanted: the safety razor

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Camp_Gillette>

------
signa11
read samuel-ullman's "youth"
[http://www.prmvr.otsu.shiga.jp/library/master/SamuelUllman/Y...](http://www.prmvr.otsu.shiga.jp/library/master/SamuelUllman/Youth.html)

dunno if lot of folks here have already read it.

~~~
bh
Nice. :)

------
fiaz
If you have to ask, then you are too old...

If you feel too old, then hang out with younger people and ask them as many
questions as you can. Really put yourself in a learning position where the
twenty somethings are your teachers.

------
icey
You're only too old if you believe people that tell you you're too old.

------
joseakle
Im 25, my cofounder 42

------
gojomo
I turn 38 in two days, and I also fear 38 may be too old.

So I'm starting a company today. Or maybe I'll do it tomorrow.

But definitely before I'm all spent at age 38.

~~~
sutro
How many shares of said company will several birthday beverages of your choice
buy me, payable in full this Saturday night?

------
rgrieselhuber
You're already 18 months older than you would have been had you gone for it
when you first had the idea.

------
mannylee1
No way. As long as you have passion for what you are doing that is all that
you need.

------
fleaflicker
You might be.

 _...I don't think many people have the physical stamina much past that age. I
used to work till 2:00 or 3:00 AM every night, seven days a week. I don't know
if I could do that now._

-How to Start a Startup

~~~
diego
Stamina comes naturally when you are in your teens and 20s. Assuming you are
in good general health, in your 30s and later it's a matter of staying in
shape and eating well.

Carlos Lopes of Portugal was 37 when he won the Olympic Marathon ('84, Los
Angeles). If that's not stamina, I don't know what is.

------
thorn
i think the age doesn't matter at all. whats matter thats is your resources
and health to handle all the stuff.

------
james123abc
Two Words: Colonel Sanders

------
rami
Yes.

------
weegee
I'm 39 and I'm not old!

------
lst
If you ask (really) seriously, then yes.

But if you only need some drive: the only part of us which really goes down
every year is our body; all other things are able to increase, if you continue
to train them.

------
rnugent
yes

