

Skip Class - nate
http://ninjasandrobots.com/skip-class/

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pmelendez
Am I the only one who really enjoyed going to class ?

This kind of post pop up once in a while here, some guy tells the experience
about skipping classes or dropping out of school. If that works for you,
great! But I am actually one of those guys that could happily get back to
school if I could afford it.

School gave me so many things: My wife, my first job, my first client, etc. I
could connect my dots back and everything started from the three different
occasions I had been enrolled in three different universities. Should you skip
class and doing it great? Sure! But your mileage may vary.

~~~
d23
I really liked skipping class. Once I made that decision to skip and go back
to sleep, it was the greatest sleep I could possibly have.

It definitely wasn't a good decision though. I wasted a lot of money and
probably missed an opportunity to major in something valuable rather than
something that would just get me by.

~~~
csmuk
Opposite anecdote for you...

I skipped class, a lot. So much so that I nearly got kicked out of (a red
brick) university in the UK. Up in front of the dean and everything. I was too
busy reselling and refurbishing Unix kit and installing network kit and
cabling. Oh and like yourself, sleeping when I desired :)

After a year, I quit my electrical engineering degree anyway much to the
disappointment of my entire family.

I don't regret this for a minute.

Firstly, most of the entire higher education system in the UK is a scam. It
was primarily an exercise in shutting up and sucking cock which I really can't
stand for. I'm not willing to trade my ethics and morals for an education.

Secondly, prospects are terribly inflated. None of my peers are employed in
that sector as it's cheaper to get your designs and production knocked up in
the far east. All of them have a shit ton of debt, even after 15 years and are
way down the ladder in their respective industries. At best, they're just
about breaking even at the end of the month. The university in questoin is
still selling the same course with false promises at the end.

My practical knowledge and experience over the years turned out to be more
valuable than the education would have been.

Obviously I make no recommendation but higher education was a social event and
business building opportunity for me.

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chasing
Again, different people learn (and enjoy learning) in different ways. Not sure
why the title of this post is the directive "skip class" and not "I skipped
some classes and did some other stuff and still made elementary mistakes at my
start-up, so that worked out."

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jdmt
Rather than go to class I created a popular custom discussion forum for
students to help each other with the homework problems (back in the early
2000's). Ended up teaching myself perl, html, css, javascript and sql in the
process which landed me my first job. Never had to do my physics homework
(useless busywork) because the answers were posted on the forum. Still
received grades of B+ or higher.

~~~
jdmt
wow, why the downvote? I'm very proud of the website I created. It was what
got me started with programming and lit a fire under me to learn new
programming languages. I don't share much on HN but a downvote to this post
makes me want to refrain from ever sharing.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>wow, why the downvote?

Because of this: "Never had to do my physics homework (useless busywork)
because the answers were posted on the forum."

~~~
jdmt
[Original message removed due to another downvote. I guess I will not share
personal anecdotes anymore. I feel that downvotes are for off topic or mean
comments. I only shared a personal experience that I felt related to the OP's
story.]

~~~
enraged_camel
Sharing personal anecdotes is fine. You however seemed to be espousing
cheating the system. You didn't go to class, and instead built this
collaboration system (which is awesome) but then used it to cheat (not so
awesome).

~~~
jdmt
> You however seemed to be espousing cheating the system.

Doesn't that sound similar to hacking the system? We are using a website
called hacker news. Not only was collaboration on homework encouraged, but the
class actually had its own discussion forum for people to use. However,
everyone disliked the forum because it was cumbersome and slow. So I built my
own. At the end of the semester I had many people thank me for the website and
asked to have it expanded to cover more classes. Using this forum I personally
helped many students understand concepts and taught concepts that the
professors couldn't teach properly. There were a few subjects I didn't
understand and other students stepped in to help. You were not in my class and
did not use this forum so I don't think you should rush to judgement about
what was/wasn't cheating.

By definition, hackers do things that push boundaries. There will always be
disagreement but you don't have to downvote just because you disagree. Voice
your opinion, certainly, but please be careful with those downvotes.

~~~
chasing
"Doesn't that sound similar to hacking the system?"

Ha. No. The system is designed to make you learn about physics, in this case.
You did not learn about physics. You actually hacked the system to take your
time and money and _not_ give you a good result.

Kind of a dumb hack, if you ask me.

~~~
jdmt
>You actually hacked the system to take your time and money and not give you a
good result.

And what if I earned 100% on the 2 midterms and a 94% on the final? I got a
96% in that physics class. Other students told me that their exam grades
improved after starting to use the forum. Not sure how I didn't get a good
result. Again, I'd like to say that rushing to judgement of other people's
situations isn't beneficial to anyone. I feel as though my initial post was
very on topic and was kind of hurt when it was downvoted within a few minutes.
We're all here to help and support each other.

By the way, I'm new to posting on HN and am wondering how you made your text
italics?

~~~
chasing
Surround something in asterisks for _italics_. :-)

You're assuming that a particular grade is a good result. It's an issue I
think a lot of students have -- I certainly did. And it's not exactly the
fault of students... The whole system seems geared towards the "good grade =
success" metric. It's a weird kind of institutional laziness.

I don't know your specific situation, and I also don't really care if you
cheated in your class and still got an A. And I'm happy that you got some
programming skills out of it! But -- as someone who now teaches at a couple of
universities -- I want students to be engaged, to not treat the work
cynically, and to actually do the work I assign. As a professor, I am not only
more experienced than you, but I know a lot you don't know. Trust me. That's
why they hired me. If you consider the class nothing but useless busy-work,
get out of the class. An engaged student who tries hard and gets a C is
preferable to a student who does show up, cheats, and gets a A. That C is way
more respectable than the A and the C student should take more pride in it
than the A student. (And it's sad that our system doesn't really allow that.)

Don't get confused about what the actual goal of education is.

~~~
jdmt
Thanks for teaching me the italics trick! I promise, I love to learn!

I agree with most of what you said. In fact, it's due to a few of my classes
(especially that physics class) that I'd like to become a professor some day.
I want to teach kids much better than those few terrible professors I had to
learn from (I had no other choice in teacher).

> If you consider the class nothing but useless busy-work, get out of the
> class.

Trust me, if I could have I would have. Unfortunately these classes were
prereq's for the classes (and major) that I cared about. I knew the material
well enough to get decent grades and didn't care beyond that. I would have
gladly traded a seat for a student who cared (especially a student who
couldn't afford to go to college!)

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lbr
When people say "I need a job in X, to learn Y, before starting Z," do you
think they actually mean it?

I understand that sometimes it's necessary. But most of the time, I think
people ask use this excuse to take the less risky path.

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afontaine
I enjoyed reading your post. I also struggle to get up to listen to a
professor go over material at a very slow pace. I'm taking a class now and I
only show up on the day before the exam and on the exam. There are 2-3 weeks
of lectures before an exam.. Usually 5-7 hours of studying is enough to get me
a B+.

I'm not saying everyone should do that. But I'm running my startup and my CS
degree isn't getting me anywhere closer to being a success story. The things
I've learned by "doing" are probably the equivalent of getting CS and MBA
degrees.

~~~
yid
So you're majoring in hubris then?

~~~
icegreentea
Don't know about his specific case, but after a couple years (at most) of
undergrad, you quickly learn how to tell which classes are the ones you'll
actually need to attend. You'll pick out the profs who just teach 95% off the
slides and textbooks, and which ones actually have useful lectures.

If you're willing to risk that 5-10% 'oh shit, professor included that one
unique thing he taught in class that wasn't included in the textbook/slides'
on your examination, then you really can usually blow off the lecture and
learn at your own pace. And really, its liberating. You can focus on the
classes and projects that you enjoy, and are getting the most out of, and
still pass all your other classes.

It has nothing to do with hubris (at least in my case), but a combined case of
just enough confidence and self-respect. I did not pay 6000 a term to attend
inane, information sparse lectures. 90 minute lectures which can be
successfully condensed into 15 minutes by your TAs are not worth my time. I've
already been burned once by being forced to take these lectures (and paying
for it!), I'm not going to let to burn me again by suffering through the
opportunity cost in time and mental stability.

------
ek
I skipped many of my undergrad classes to do more important stuff, and I'd go
back and do it again. I showed up for the important stuff, and attended
lectures that actually taught me things, but quickly figured out that just
because a professor tells you you have to show up doesn't mean that it's not
your judgement call any more. Most successful and highly motivated students
figure out this sort of a scheme for skipping busywork and pedantry.

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jccalhoun
Maybe if more students were as self-motivated as this guy I wouldn't have
those two or three students every semester who do go to class and still don't
follow directions no matter how often I go over them.

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quasque
I'm not sure what the author is implying here. Is it that figuring stuff out
on your own and learning it from others are mutually exclusive? Surely it's
better to do both.

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indubitably
I like class.

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derefr
Sadly, the classes I most wanted to skip were the ones where you'd get flunked
for a single unexcused absence.

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kevincennis
What's a ninja sand robot?

~~~
lbr
ninjas and robots?

