
An example of how brands build fake reviews on Amazon - r_singh
https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/g19a1w/heres_a_brand_thats_building_its_reviews_steadily/
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zeepzeep
A friend of mine is in a facebook group that has lists of products you can
buy, then 4/5-star review and get your money back. We're talking 10-100€
products.

He goes as far as reviewing everything he doesn't buy there with less than 3
stars so his account isn't suspicious.

Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be, not only
helping shady companies but also hurting legit ones.

~~~
nkozyra
That ship has sailed, in my opinion.

Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has
gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a
0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known
brand on Amazon isn't much better.

And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be
useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this
point.

~~~
jasode
_> as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating._

I've been an Amazon customer for more than 20 years. Yes, both the 5-star
reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed. Many 5-stars reviews are fake because
of bribery. Many 1-star reviews are from competitors trying to hurt their
rivals.

That said, I still find Amazon reviews useful if I _read the texts_ instead of
depending on the number of stars. I go to the 3-star and 2-star reviews and
read the _specific_ complaints customers are writing about. Some reviewers
also post useful photos.

For example, I needed to buy a guest bed for COVID quarantine so I looked for
"air mattress" on Amazon:
[https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress)

Most of those have 5-star reviews. I ignore that and simply _read the texts_.
After digesting some reviews, I learn that all air mattresses regardless of
brand suffer from leakage (usually after the 30-day return period). Some
recommended getting a foldable foam mattress as an alternative to totally
avoid the issues with leaks and broken air pumps. That's what I ended up
buying and it was the Amazon reviews that steered me away from air mattresses.

~~~
mandeepj
> Yes, both the 5-star reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed.

You don't look for that <i> Verified purchase </i> text ?

~~~
jasode
_> You don't look for that <i> Verified purchase </i> text ?_

If you're not being sarcastic...

Those "Verified Purchase" reviews can also be faked by manufacturers/sellers
reimbursing the credit-card payment of the Amazon shopper.

Example: [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-
amazon...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon-
purchases-are-real-the-reviews-are-fake)

~~~
1024core
I bought something from Amazon, and it wasn't up to spec, so I left a 3-star
review.

Well, I got contacted by the seller, offering me $20 to take down the review.
I ignored it.

Then a few weeks later, they upped the offer. And in response, I downed the
stars.

Last I heard from them, they were offering me $70 to take down the review. For
something that cost under $15.

Amazon itself doesn't help either. I bought something (a food item) from
Amazon, and it was nowhere close to the quality in the photographs or
description. I wrote a review, describing how the actual item was of much
lower quality than expected. Amazon refused to post my review! And I've been
an Amazon customer for nearly 20 years!

~~~
zippergz
I've had this same experience. After all the pestering and offers of cash to
remove my 3 star review, I lowered it to 1 star.

~~~
abiogenesis
Sounds like a business model to me. Leave a 3 star review, and if they try to
bribe you $X threaten them to lower it to 1 star unless they pay $2X.

~~~
jjeaff
People do this. I used to sell a lot on Amazon. I would occasionally get a
non-coherent one star review and then a message basically trying to extort a
full refund in exchange for removing the review. And no, it wasn't because the
book was in bad condition, they can always return for a full refund. They want
to keep the book and get a full refund.

~~~
abiogenesis
I was (obviously) joking but this is really a sad thing to hear.

~~~
zeepzeep
There's truth behind every joke.

And this really is a decent biz model. I mean, free items, just sell them for
50% and you can make a living.

Scale this up using multiple amazon accounts, multiple addresses.

The market is big enough so that you can make a living out of this, I'm sure.

And your x2 multiplier makes it even easier!

------
SkyMarshal
Amazon's market has become a cesspool of many trash products with fly-by-night
ALLCAPS Youtube-bro dropshipper "brands", if you can even call them that.

Amazon's fast and affordable shipping is addicting, but I've nonetheless
steadily shifted my purchasing patterns away from Amazon.

Instead I tend to search Amazon (and Google, etc) to see what options are
available, and buy them elsewhere if possible. Ideally directly from high-
quality brands' websites, or alternately from smaller, specialized online
retail outlets I trust more. Both tend to be more of a passion project and
really care about what they're making and selling.

I may not receive the item as fast, but I've adjusted to that and realize in
99% of cases I don't really need that instant gratification.

In fact, fast shipping instant gratification seems more likely to tempt me
into un-needed impulse purchases, and I'm better off without it. I make more
planned and strategic purchases when I have to wait a little longer to receive
them. Better for my personal financial planning and budgeting, and control of
my lizard brain response.

~~~
x87678r
You get fast shipping? Amazon is usually slowest, takes 1-2 weeks if you're
not Prime.

~~~
sjtindell
Having Amazon Prime is such a constant in my life for so long now that I
forgot it’s even a thing that you can in fact not have. How weird.

------
insickness
I posted a negative review of an inexpensive (~$10) electronic device on
Amazon. A few weeks later, the seller contacted me with an offer of a $20
Amazon gift certificate to take it down. I didn't respond. A few days later,
they offered $30, then $40, then $50.

~~~
zimbatm
My wife posted a 1 star review on a crappy bookshelf that didn't fit the
description (not wood, wrong color) and was structurally weak.

On year later, she received an email threatening a defamation lawsuit unless
she takes down the review. Looking at the seller reviews, it looks like this
wasn't an isolated incident as other people were complaining. Obviously, this
doesn't hold legally. But we are left with the feeling that they might still
try to challenge us legally at any time, which is a really unpleasant feeling.

~~~
kumarvvr
If the law allows for publishing that lawsuit, she should update her review
with the lawsuit docs.

~~~
zimbatm
Good idea. Luckily this was just a threat so far.

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tweedledee
I used to work in this space. It is incredibly easy to detect and counter. It
just costs money. Amazons retail margins are too good to mess with. Customers
are not leaving fast enough to make fixing it worth it. Every time you produce
a model showing net present value going down due to fraud someone else will
produce one that doesn’t. That guy gets promoted.

Amazon is simply cashing in on its reputation. Once it’s gone you might as
well buy from the Chinese source. People used to search stores for things
they’d buy cheaper on Amazon. Now people are searching Amazon for things
they’ll buy cheaper Alibaba.

Personally, I’ve already shifted to buying DIY tools and supplies directly
from China. I found the quality good enough. Some of the industrial
consumables you can’t even buy retail in the US. For the high end stuff I buy
direct from outlets. I don’t trust Amazon with that either. I could see a
future where Amazon gets squeezed from both ends.

~~~
insickness
The advantage of Amazon over buying directly from China is the fast shipping
(if you have prime) and the no hassle return policy. I made the mistake of
buying some masks through an ad on a website. While the masks were fine, what
they didn't mention was that it took six weeks to deliver. There are plenty of
negatives with Amazon (fake reviews, fake products, etc.) but fast shipping
and guaranteed returns cover a multitude of sins.

~~~
heavyset_go
You're just paying the markup for a domestic retailer to sell you the same
thing you can buy on Aliexpress.

I've done returns on Aliexpress before. I didn't have to send anything back
and I got a 100% refund.

------
alexanderdou
My own personal rule is now:

> I don't buy anything I'll put in/on/around my body on Amazon (e.g. Vitamin
> supplements, Lotion/face sunscreen, Protein powder)

Even if the brand is legit, I'm still not 100% confident that Amazon's co-
mingling stock and switcheroos that can happen in the long supply chain will
result in a "real" thing arriving at my door

~~~
wombat-man
I don't buy much from amazon these days, but yeah, definitely bought some
higher end shaving cream that I later realized was probably not authentic.
It's getting easier to buy direct from brands, and I feel safer buying this
kinda stuff from target or whatever locally.

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someonehere
When the description does not follow basic English grammar (it’s a run in
sentence with no caps or punctuation), that’s a red flag for me. Also, the
image looks really doctored and not something that seems legit. It doesn’t
look sharp if that makes sense.

Here’s the description for context:

“ omega 3 fish oil supplements fatty EPA DHA omega3 burpless capsules
supplement pills soft gels men best vitamins omega-3 wild-caught natural women
pure humans no burp small extra strength mercury-free fish oil”

If you buy this without reading everything in the product description, I’m
sorry.

~~~
ebg13
You say "I'm sorry", but in context it really sounds like you're saying "fuck
you".

I like to consider things this way...

At your local grocery store how vigilant are you that your orange juice carton
might actually be filled with rat poison? Never crossed your mind? Very remote
chance? Why? Because one item in a million is inspected by...who exactly?
Think about how you'd feel if you found out one day that your grocery store
actually gets its stock from a warehouse where sometimes cartons of OJ are
replaced by rat poison on purpose by someone looking to make a buck at someone
else's expense. You'd probably feel at least a little violated or betrayed.
Aren't we all glad that we don't have to worry about shit like that at the
grocery store? We shouldn't have to worry about shit like that from Amazon.

~~~
dvtrn
These are some very strong _assumptions_ about the prior poster that you seem
to be convincing yourself are necessarily true.

Why is that?

~~~
ebg13
Because their entire comment is "here are reasons why you should have known".

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arafa
I see people mentioning Fakespot, I also recommend ReviewMeta and use it
often: [https://reviewmeta.com/](https://reviewmeta.com/)

~~~
LeoPanthera
ReviewMeta for that product:
[https://reviewmeta.com/amazon/B08431MPXD](https://reviewmeta.com/amazon/B08431MPXD)

IMHO, they're too positive. If you scroll down, there's a lot of negative
factors, but the above the fold summary is quite cheerful.

The FakeSpot page is much clearer.

[https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-
su...](https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-
supplement-2400mg-burpless-fish-oil-omega-3-pills-w-1440mg-epa-dha-supports-
heart-health-brain-function-immune-system-eye-health-lemon-flavor-non-
gmo-120-softgels)

~~~
kelnos
The odd thing is that FakeSpot's "adjusted rating" is... the same as the
actual rating.

~~~
LeoPanthera
ReviewMeta's is also the same, within the granularity of half a "star".

------
kumarvvr
I really wonder what could be the solution to this. Reviews are a mainstay on
the web. It's the underlying social experience of it.

But given the untrustworthy nature of reviews in general, I hope there is some
method to capture genuine reviews, filter out the noise and filter up the
relevant ones.

Perhaps tech like blockchains could help here, but their use is limited to
anonymous identity. Its easy to create enough accounts to influence the
system.

The only feasible way seems to have direct user accounts that are tied to
actual people, something like on facebook. But that is a privacy issue.

Eventually, e-Commerce might devolve into brands and off brands, where the
platform becomes irrelevant and other forms of advertising and marketing take
control.

~~~
vannevar
Without a functioning trust network, reviews are meaningless. You cannot have
both anonymity and healthy e-commerce. We're in a race to the bottom, and
there is no "invisible hand" to right the ship. Government will ultimately
have to step in with some kind of online ID system.

~~~
kumarvvr
It should be sufficient if the ID system has all the characteristics of a real
world ID system, with just the real world link broken.

Inability to easily create multiple IDs for 1 person, One ID linked to one
individual, inability to easily use another persons ID, etc.

~~~
nowosad
Even with a sufficient ID system, what's to stop brands from bribing
individuals for positive reviews?

~~~
kumarvvr
That is possible, but bribing one individual is very risky for a brand. Mainly
because, there are only so many things an individual can influence, and once
his reputation is tarnished, the brands reputation is tarnished. So the risk
is much higher than, say hiring a company to spam reviews.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
For an example of really stupid reviews of this type, check this one out:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU)

The people who provide the text templates for these bots really miss
creativity. After reading just one or two you realize what's going on. It
would be really easy to make them look more authentic just by not going over
the top.

~~~
searchableguy
Maybe the fake reviews are there to make you focus on the _legit looking one
or two_ reviews that are some part critical but have 4.5 star rating.

------
dannykwells
One site that has really risen due to this, imo, is Etsy - there you _know_
the person making the product, you can see clear examples of their work,
browse their website, look at their previous work, talk with them, etc. It's
the opposite of the no-name Amazon experience.

Definitely not cheap and has issues of its own, but worth checking out if,
like me you thought it wasn't useful before.

~~~
JaggedJax
I know of several companies auto listing thousands of foreign manufactured
goods on Etsy. I don't know how prevalent this is, but I know not everything
there is handmade nor is it all from small individual sellers.

~~~
dannykwells
Ok fair point. Never mind the world is just all garbage. Take to the woods!

------
mobilio
Same "review" business happens on Google Play, Apple AppStore and many more.

Honestly any service with reviews can be faked.

~~~
ksec
Especially Apps with in App Digital Content ( Where the cost of that content
is essentially free ), like Games. Where they give you an Item if you Vote.

------
ed_elliott_asc
When I use amazon reviews I look at what people complain about and work out if
that would annoy me as well

~~~
panpanna
Same here, I simply look at 1-star reviews and ignore that there are 100x
5-star reviews.

Note that this won't work on sites where the seller can delay publishing your
review (e.g AliExpress).

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sq1020
Sometimes I think writing reviews for products that I've purchased on Amazon
is kind of a civic duty, a way to fight back against all the fakes and help
our fellow shoppers.

------
mitchbob
Do services like Fakespot [1] for evaluating reviews work and, if so, how?

[1] [https://www.fakespot.com/](https://www.fakespot.com/)

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nbrempel
I find [https://www.fakespot.com/](https://www.fakespot.com/) very useful if
I’m shopping on Amazon.

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Dahoon
The link doesn't show any facts.

