
Woman Partially Sucked Out of Jet When Window Breaks - lsh123
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Airplane-Makes-Emergency-Landing-at-Philadelphia-International-Airport-480008613.html
======
gumby
I was in an emergency landing (complete with evacuation on the side without an
engine fire) in 1990. We didn't have a catastrophic failure like this; there
was time to prepare.

What really surprised me was how cooperative all the passengers were. In those
days emergency rows were given to people who needed extra room, so the flight
attendants told the elderly folks in the emergency rows to change seats and
recruited youngsters like me (I was 25) to sit there and review how and if to
open the window (I was the last-resort option and did not get to actually do
it). They collected all our shoes and checked everybody's practice crash
position. There was no screaming (except during the rather abrupt landing).
And unlike what you see today nobody tried to take their cabin baggage with
them (they'd told us to empty our pockets, though I was naughty and kept my
passport, which later made life a lot easier for me).

One thing is unchanged: I was the first one to leave the arrival hall (this
was pre-mobile phones so I wanted to find a phone and get a new flight rather
than let the airline deal with it like everyone else did), and there was a
camera crew there. I was asked "were you on that flight" and when I said yes
they asked, "and how was it?" I said, "exciting but I felt safe the whole
time" they switched off the camera, looked annoyed, and went back to watching
the exit door. sigh.

And I really got a strong lesson in the real purpose of flight attendants.

~~~
speg
Why did they collect your shoes?

~~~
JoblessWonder
Back in the day they had everyone remove their shoes if they thought the
inflatable slides would be used... This article says it is so a heel wouldn't
pop the slide or injure someone below them on the way down.

[https://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/14/us/shoe-policy-may-
change...](https://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/14/us/shoe-policy-may-change-in-
airlines.html)

~~~
isostatic
So 90% of people not wearing heels have to run over burning tarmac with no
footwear?

~~~
megy
Yeah, I guess the guys who have planned exactly for this, spent years looking
at it, and created one of the safest industries in the world did not think of
that?

~~~
isostatic
Apparently not, as they changed the rules to make you only remove high heel
shoes.

Airlines are safe because they keep learning from mistakes and updating
regulations with new evidence.

------
danaliv
Approach control recording here - SWA1380 comes in at around the 14-minute
mark: [http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kphl/PHL-App-North-
Arrival...](http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kphl/PHL-App-North-Arrival-
Apr-17-2018-1500Z.mp3)

The captain is cool as a cucumber. The controller is sweating bullets!

~~~
eric_b
Honestly that captain is too calm. Sounds like she's drunk or drugged. I
understand calm under fire, but she's talking slower than everyone else on
that radio. Seems like quick replies to the point would be better than her
lackadaisical speech. Also, she doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on what
happened to her airplane, or the damage done to it.

~~~
ben509
Maybe this is too much of a meta question, but why was this downvoted so
heavily?

As someone with a relevant background, I think it's entirely wrong, but it's
presented in an entirely respectful manner. Saying something that is very
clearly wrong is _good_ because then we can explain _why_ it's wrong. Or am I
missing something?

~~~
eropple
I didn't downvote it (though my incredulous reply has been upvoted pretty
heavily), but I'll be frank: I don't think this kind of warm-take review of
the pilot's radio manner would be made if it was a man. Being respectful-and-
gross is not materially better than being gross, and so I'm not surprised that
other people came to the same conclusion and tubed the post.

~~~
hueving
>I don't think this kind of warm-take review of the pilot's radio manner would
be made if it was a man.

Every aviation incident discussed in /r/aviation is full of armchair analysts
and critics. People on the internet like to put out controversial opinions
about what people have done to feel relevant. Much like you ended up doing
ascribing this to a sexism issue despite it being based on pace of speech.

~~~
Johnny555
Analysis and speculation (even if uninformed) about how they handled the
incident is one thing "Why didn't they reduce speed and take a 25 mile
approach instead of 20 mile?".... But criticizing the pilot for being too calm
and speaking in slow deliberate sentences? That seems over the edge and sounds
more like personal criticism.

------
Symmetry
And we should all remember to keep our seat belts on. And also seriously you
should put your mask on first quickly before helping others. Your ancestors
didn't experience a lack of oxygen without excess CO2 so you'll only
experience the later as feeling that you're running out of breath. Without
oxygen you can become too stupid to put on your air mask[1], then black out
and die without noticing something is wrong. And if you're working in a lab
with a cryogenic liquid that spills don't try to be a hero, just get you and
your lab-mates out of there.

[1][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw)

~~~
ben-schaaf
Interestingly, each unit uses a chemical reaction to create the oxygen
individually. They have fuel for around 15 minutes. So the moment the plane
loses pressure, the pilots need to dive to a safe altitude where the masks are
no longer required.

~~~
scottie_m
It’s a similar tech to the oxygen candles use in old emergency self rescue
units in mines, and still carried aboard submarines.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator)

------
CommieBobDole
Washington Post is now reporting one dead, though it's not clear if it's the
person sucked out of the window - the article says the person who went to the
hospital may have been someone who had a heart attack during the incident, and
presumably is the person who died.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-
gridlock/wp/2018/04/1...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-
gridlock/wp/2018/04/17/southwest-flight-makes-emergency-landing-at-
philadelphia-airport-reports-say/?utm_term=.825136535c0c)

~~~
rubicon33
Dying of a heart attack is a serious worry of mine when flying. I have
extreme, and I mean EXTREME anxiety (190+ BPM) whenever anything even remotely
wrong (turbulence) happens.

I'm not sure how I'll ever get over it. I've tried many things. Short of a
tranquilizer shot, I'm pretty sure a failure like this would take my life
through anxiety related heart complications alone.

~~~
ModernMech
If you live in the right state, take a weed gummy (indica) before going
through security. Always does the trick for me.

~~~
gnulinux
I just want to (anecdotally) note that this does not work for everyone. I had
(generalized) anxiety issues and unfortunately weed never helped me, instead
it gave me my worst panic attacks. I can _rarely_ handle trace amount of weed
in social occasions (say, one puff) but anything more immediately fractals
into a 911 call. I probably have an extreme case, but I know at least 3 other
people that weed makes them anxious. This is Bay Area, I also tried "high CBD
low THC" strains without any luck.

------
jey
The Aviation Herald has more straightforward reporting and pictures:
[https://avherald.com/h?article=4b7725fb&opt=0](https://avherald.com/h?article=4b7725fb&opt=0)

------
quux
There's some good discussion going on in this thread in the aviation
subreddit:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/8cxru9/southwest_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/8cxru9/southwest_emergency_landing_in_philly_just_now/)

~~~
samfriedman
For incidents like this, the PPRuNe pilots forum is also good for informed
discussion from industry experts and pilots: [https://www.pprune.org/rumours-
news/607900-swa1380-diversion...](https://www.pprune.org/rumours-
news/607900-swa1380-diversion-kphl-after-engine-event.html)

------
hodgesrm
Latest pilot discussion (including armchair pilots) on the incident is
available on Professional Pilots Rumour Network at
[https://www.pprune.org/rumours-
news/607900-swa1380-diversion...](https://www.pprune.org/rumours-
news/607900-swa1380-diversion-kphl-after-engine-event.html).

------
xvf22
I was surprised to see how many selfies showed people incorrectly wearing
their oxygen masks by not covering the nose.

~~~
caf
They really need to redesign those with an obvious "nose notch".

------
master-litty
>A wave of malfunctions has plagued Southwest in recent years.

Considering the amount of flights Southwest operates, three major events over
the span of two years seems like a tremendous success -- Especially since
nobody has died!

This accident is undoubtedly traumatizing but extremely rare. Is there any
meaningful substance to this?

~~~
maxerickson
Just the single incident of an engine coming apart like this is considered a
serious problem. They spend a lot of money inspecting them to prevent such
things.

The most interesting comparison is probably between maintenance facilities
that work on comparable planes. So if there are some that don't have any
incidents, you maybe conclude that 3 is really bad.

~~~
master-litty
I'm certainly not saying it isn't serious. I just wouldn't plaster it as a
historical recurrence.

Wikipedia suggests Southwest has at least 700 aircraft running 6 flights per
day, implying 4,200+ flights per day, implying about 1.5+ million flights per
year.

1-3 flights with major incidents out of 1.5 million? I would hardly call that
a "wave of malfunctions" as it stands.

But I do agree comparing maintenance facilities would be interesting.

~~~
pfarnsworth
No. Their duty cycle per plane is 3-4x what other airline companies do. Their
aircrafts undergo a lot more stress than other airlines, so the fact they have
so many more flights isn't impressive, it's the CAUSE of their problems.

Several years ago they had a case of their fuselage ripping open midflight,
and the reason was that the stress of taking off and landing puts a lot more
stress on their planes.

~~~
Johnny555
Doesn't the FAA approve aircraft maintenance plans? As far as I know, they
consider cycles in the plans.

It's surprising that the FAA would allow them to have an interval 4X that of
other airlines. Well, perhaps more surprising would be if other airlines would
do 4X more maintenance checks than Southwest if they could get away with less.

------
jupp0r
One more reason to keep that seatbelt on.

------
samfriedman
One fatality has unfortunately been confirmed.

[https://twitter.com/VeronicaRochaLA/status/98632461126341427...](https://twitter.com/VeronicaRochaLA/status/986324611263414272)

------
buttholesurfer
This reminds me of the Navy pilot that halfway ejected somehow.
[http://www.gallagherstory.com/ejection_seat/](http://www.gallagherstory.com/ejection_seat/)

~~~
tzs
It reminds me of British Airways Flight 5390.

27 hours before the flight, a cockpit window was replaced. Unfortunately, 84
of the 90 bolts used by the maintenance crew had a diameter 0.66 mm less than
the documentation called for, so the window was not held in place as strongly
as it should have been.

On top of that, this plane had a design flaw. Its windows were bolted on from
the outside, not the inside, meaning that the bolts had to hold against the
force from the difference between the pressure in the pressurized cabin and
outside. Bolts on windows bolted from the inside only have to deal with much
smaller forces, such as wind during takeoff and at low altitude, and then only
until the pressure difference gets high enough to take all of the force off
the bolts.

So...window pops out, and pilot starts getting sucked out. His legs got caught
on the flight controls, and a flight attendant was able to grab the pilot's
belt and hold on. The pilot was getting blown all around by the wind, and the
guy holding on was getting bruised by all the motion, and was also getting
frostbite. They could also see the pilot's face hitting the window, and saw
his eyes were open but not blinking. They assumed he was dead, but decided to
keep holding on, out of concern that if they let the body go it might get
sucked into an engine and they already had enough problems (pilot's legs were
still tangled in the flight controls, and they also could not hear the radios
because of the noise from the wind).

They did manage to get down OK, and everyone was surprised to find the pilot
had survived. He had frostbite, shock, bruising, and broken arm and wrist on
one side and thumb on the other. The flight attendant who had held him the
most had a dislocated shoulder, and frostbite damage to his face and one eye.

This incident was covered in the documentary series "Air Disasters" ("Mayday"
in Canada, "Air Crash Investigation" elsewhere). Here's the Wikipedia article
on the accident for complete details:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390)

------
intrasight
I always wear my seatbelt when sitting. I also try not to be seated close to
the engines since I'm familiar with the damage that an exploding engine can
do. What got my attention from these photos is that at flight speed, the
shrapnel from an exploding engine is more likely to do damage far back from
the point of the explosion. I hadn't considered that before.

~~~
animal531
Statistically sitting in the back is a bit safer than in the front.

After that there are also specific cases where sitting in the middle you are
for example more likely to be injured by trolleys or falling luggage. Also
sitting close to a door can be important in case a quick exit is needed.

------
danso
Not sure if the posted article contains video footage (it requires Flash)
posted by a passenger, but here it is on Twitter:
[https://twitter.com/fox5dc/status/986292072809283586](https://twitter.com/fox5dc/status/986292072809283586)

~~~
shkkmo
That page appears to be broken for me. I get a rapid fire series of constant
requests to the twitter API that all get a 401 response.

------
Disruptive_Dave
I was on a JetBlue flight from Vegas to NYC years ago, coming back home from a
bachelor party. On takeoff I heard a loud pop and just knew, from years of
flying, something not-so-great just happened. I was sitting next to a good
friend who didn't love flying so I was keeping my cool for him. Long story
semi-short, you could tell we were flying in circles pretty quickly. The crew
didn't communicate much. It was absolutely fascinating to witness how panic
spread throughout the plane, even in mostly silence.

Before you knew it, this indescribable wave of anxiety just hung like a cloud.
People started looking around, so others did the same. My friend began his
descent into full panic attack mode. The college aged girl in front of me
started crying. My buddy soaked through his shirt in sweat. People were trying
to call and text loved ones to say what might be their goodbyes. There were a
few "get me the fuck off this plane right the fuck now!!!!" freakouts. I think
they actually helped the situation a bit because most people who were freaking
felt better about their lesser level of freak. I don't remember how long it
took the crew to tell us what happened, or the partial story. The hydraulics
system went down, they said. But we were too big and full of fuel to land at
Vegas, so we had to do circles above the desert to burn gas before we could
land. I couldn't get why they didn't just go to LAX or something like that.

5 hours we were in the air. The turbulence above the desert is not great. So,
you have lack of information, a faulty plane, and the inability to land all
happening at once. So...much...vomit.

You know what was cool, though? The older gentleman in front of me consoling
the college girl. Hugging her, holding her hand, asking her questions about
her life to keep her mind busy. Then, pill bottles. That's what I'll always
remember. People were passing around their downers for anyone who felt they
needed 'em!

Finally, we were walked through emergency landing procedures and we went in
for the landing. Nobody knew what to expect. I caught a glimpse of all the
emergency lights at the far end of the runway, where we were headed.

The landing wasn't that bad. We survived. JetBlue told us they'd take care of
everyone; cars, hotels, food. Then they told us there was another flight
leaving soon for NYC and they automatically rebooked us all on it. Up to us if
we took it, though.

I've never seen a group of people move that quickly towards the bar. We all
did shots. Laughed, told dumb jokes. A crew rented a van to drive back East. I
told my panicked buddy that, statistically speaking, he will never take a
safer flight in his entire life than this next one. (Joke's on him, I'm a
marketer, not a statistician!) We slept like babies on the flight, got into
Brooklyn at 7am, hugged and kissed my girlfriend.

Edit: Forgot the part where the flight attendant (who was awesome) from the
doomed flight ended up sitting in front of us on the next one. We asked her to
give it to us straight and she basically said we lost 2 (of 3, if I recall
correctly) hydraulics systems, then something else I can't remember. She said
in her 17 years of flying it was the closest she ever cam to going down,
believing it was a real possibility.

~~~
gk1
The plane spent 5 hours burning fuel, or did I misunderstand? I thought planes
can dump fuel for this exact reason.

~~~
robbiet480
Not all planes have the ability to dump fuel midair. A bit more info here [0]
but it really just comes down to the model and exact options ordered at
manufacturing time. My understanding is that fuel dump systems are rarely used
and add a lot of maintenance overhead & complexity, extra regulatory things
but most of all, unnecessary added weight.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dumping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dumping)

------
CWuestefeld
MythBusters did a thing on this a while back. This video might be of interest:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yG2h1aDB6k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yG2h1aDB6k)

~~~
cottsak
Particularly this image
[https://youtu.be/4yG2h1aDB6k?t=133](https://youtu.be/4yG2h1aDB6k?t=133) which
shows the "person" partially sucked out when the whole window went - eerily
similar to the description of the woman in the window seat.

------
speg
That's wild. My wife took our son on his first flight today and now I'm just
picturing a toddler getting sucked out the window :(

~~~
rdlecler1
Children under 2 can fly free on a parents lap, but my wife insists on buying
our 4month old his own seat for safety reasons. There will be zero chance I
talk her out of this now.

~~~
nollbit
Infant in lap is supposed to be secured with a seat belt that attaches to the
parents seat belt. They are not unrestrained.

However, an infant is much safer in a car seat strapped to their own seat of
course.

~~~
larkost
That is not the case in the U.S., we had an unpleasant (and highly
patronizing) conversation with an airline steward who tried to tell us that
FAA regulations prohibited such a seat belt and that "the safest place for an
infant is in their mom's arms".

------
srj
Good reason to go for the aisle seat.

~~~
exhilaration
Better yet, get a seat in front of the engines instead of behind:

 _The engine inlet was shredded with metal bent outward. The pane of a window
just behind the left wing was missing._

~~~
srj
There was a study[1] where a plane was deliberately crashed into the Sonoran
Desert, and in it they found the front of the cabin experienced much higher
g-forces than those in the rear.

There's also an interesting blog by a UK Professor who studies the safety of
crowds in various disaster scenarios:
[http://fseg.gre.ac.uk/blog/](http://fseg.gre.ac.uk/blog/)

He found that the closer you are to an exit row, the marginally better your
odds of survival.

[1] [https://alum.mit.edu/slice/scientists-crash-plane-name-
safet...](https://alum.mit.edu/slice/scientists-crash-plane-name-safety)

~~~
Coding_Cat
and, a reason much more important than survival, an aisle seat on an exit room
gives you the most legspace for your money!

~~~
untog
Bless your heart for assuming that the exit row seat doesn't cost extra
compared to the others.

~~~
Coding_Cat
Varies per airline. But usually when I fly it's still the best (legroom/total
ticket price) :)

------
AnimalMuppet
This may be Southwest's first passenger fatality, ever.

I say "may" because if a person dies on a flight from a heart attack, it
doesn't count in the safety statistics. I suspect that it doesn't count even
if the heart attack was plausibly brought on by an in-flight safety incident.
But if the woman who was partially sucked out is the one who died (unclear at
the time I write this), then it's the first one in corporate history for
Southwest. That's impressive.

It doesn't make today any less tragic, though...

~~~
nunez
Did they did in or out of the aircraft after it landed?

------
pandasun
Video
[https://twitter.com/ABC/status/986286318014656512](https://twitter.com/ABC/status/986286318014656512)

------
ShanePatrice
Any updates, on this amazing landing? One news source reported a man used his
back to partially cover up the blown out window. Does anyone know if this was
true and if so who was he? If true he risked his life to save others and I'd
like to know who he is. Should any of us ever run into trouble on a plane
heres hoping we have a pilot as competent as this woman. Great save!

------
randyrand
I guess, wear your seat belt.

~~~
oh_sigh
If you're sitting in a window seat it's entirely possible to be sucked into
the window enough where you'd be dead even with your seatbelt on. I'd imagine
most adults would get stuck at the shoulders, which would only take about 1ft
of wiggle room. Also, she may have received fatal head trauma from the engine
cowling entering the plane.

So, I think it's premature to say that she would have lived even if she was
wearing her seatbelt(was she?). But generally I agree it is a good idea to
strap in

~~~
jessaustin
I have to stoop over so low to see out windows, I doubt that more than my arm
and shoulder would make it through. Of course my head hitting the wall could
kill me too...

------
code4tee
Crew did a great job with a textbook handling of the situation. It’s a
testimaent to the training of the crew that this didn’t turn out worse.
Obviously a lot of people are going to be taking a very close look at the
engine and what happened there but sounds like the crew did a great job here.

------
pc86
Remember what we always say when there is a news article - _especially_ local
news! - about anything technical. Don't forget their tenuous relationship with
logic and facts when reading this article.

> _A Southwest Airlines flight landed safely in Philadelphia Tuesday after the
> jet violently depressurized when a piece of an engine flew into and broke a
> window, according to passenger accounts_

Violent is relative.

> _The plane descended by more than 3,000 feet per minute until the pilots
> leveled out around 10,000 feet._

3000 fpm is nothing crazy, especially for an emergency descent with a
depressurized cabin. I'm glad they included the following line:

> _Arthur Wolk, an aviation expert, said that is a modest rate of descent and
> indicated that the pilot had control of the aircraft._

The plane was never "going down" as one passenger is quoted saying.

~~~
komali2
>violently depressurized

If we get to use this when a plane's window breaks, what do we say about the
Byford Dolphin incident?

> Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process
> of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the 60 centimetres
> (24 in) diameter opening created by the jammed interior trunk door by
> escaping air and violently dismembered, including bisection of his
> thoracoabdominal cavity, which further resulted in expulsion of all of the
> internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section
> of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some
> distance, one section later being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above
> the exterior pressure door.

We're nearing the ceiling of available acronyms with "violent." I guess
"catastrophic" could apply?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_acc...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident)

~~~
jensvdh
Well, that's something I wish I didn't read this morning on HN. Did he..
survive?

~~~
duskwuff
> Did he.. survive?

Well, let's see:

    
    
        √ "violently dismembered"
        √ "bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity" (i.e, body cut in half)
        √ "expulsion of all of the internal organs"
    

Spoiler alert: no. All four divers were killed, along with one of the tenders
outside the diving bell.

------
vanattab
Wow scary shit. I hope she flies for free on Southwest for the rest of her
life.

~~~
jolmg
LOL. You think she'll want to get near one of their planes ever again?

~~~
Casseres
I would! I'm realistic about the chances of another accident like that.

~~~
duskwuff
It's already happened once -- the odds of it happening twice to the same
person are astronomical! ;)

~~~
HankB99
The odds of happening to her (if she ever gets on a plane again) are the same
as if it had never happened to her in the first place.

------
eddof13
I was amazed when I saw that it wasn't Allegiant.

------
BadassFractal
That's straight out of my worst nightmares.

~~~
ssambros
And this is one of the reasons why most airlines in the US ask to wear a
seatbelt during the whole flight, not just on takeoff and landing.

~~~
privacypoller
I guess you can say "this is one of the reasons" but the overwhelming
motivator is turbulence and passenger control. I'd suggest the odds of getting
hurt by exploding material are way more likely and dangerous than getting
sucked out of a completely shattered window, regardless if you're wearing your
seat belt. Getting hurt because the plane makes a sudden drop on the other
hand can virtually be eliminated by wearing your belt.

------
jordache
not really suck, pushed out by the pressure from within the cabin

~~~
ASalazarMX
Oh, I'm not drinking through a straw, I'm actually pushing the liquid up using
the atmosphere.

------
jloughry
I wish reporters would get this right. It's blown, not sucked. Vacuum doesn't
exert a force on anything; there's nothing there. It's the high pressure air
inside that does the work.

~~~
nikanj
”How did you drink your milkshake?” ”It was blown to my mouth via a straw” ?

~~~
tedunangst
Capillary action. I'm a slow drinker.

