
Evernote CEO to entrepreneurs: "don't do it" - Liu
http://thenextweb.com/video/2012/04/27/evernote-ceo-phil-libin-my-advice-to-aspiring-entrepreneurs-dont-do-it-video/
======
reason
People in this space live in a thickly-lined bubble if they think something
like Evernote is changing the world. Wisdom is not suddenly bestowed upon you
because your note-taking service was recently valued at $1+ billion.

I have always had a really hard time heeding to the advice of rich people who
tell you what all the right and wrong reasons to become an entrepreneur are,
especially when they start preaching about how it's not about the money, but
about the journey.

Also, "don't do it"? I'm sure companies that are having 100x more of an impact
in this world than Evernote will ever have were started by people who very
bluntly went against that sort of advice. Steve Jobs' "Stay hungry, stay
foolish" comes to mind, and I'll side with his blissfully ignorant optimism
any day.

~~~
philaquilina
I think you are thinking of "change the world" in the "topple bad governments,
empower the meek, help make this world a utopia" type of way. Evernote is
changing the world.

If you make 30 million people's lives just a tad bit easier, then yes, you've
changed the world. If you've caused other companies to take note and copy your
business strategy/idea and THEY make people's lives easier, then yes you've
changed the world.

Yes, he's rich, but I think he's saying that was a side effect of purer
motivations. If you're in it to be rich, then you're in it for the wrong
reasons. If you're in it create an amazing product and be impactful on a
stranger's life, then you're in it for the right reasons.

Just my take. Could be wrong.

~~~
pork
> If you make 30 million people's lives just a tad bit easier, then yes,
> you've changed the world.

By that reasoning, if I kick a rock on the street and it shifts 10 feet to the
left, I've changed the world too.

EDIT: more analogies

* Bic pens have changed the world

* Toilet paper has changed the world

* Shoes have changed the world

~~~
jaredsohn
Kicking a rock on the street is different than the other examples you gave in
that the directly measured impact is minimal.

It is possible that it could cause major change (in a butterfly effect kind of
way), but usually it would be hard to measure and predict.

But if you kick a rock and a few days later that rock ends up causing an
accident of an "important" person you did in fact "change the world" by
kicking that rock.

IMO, the other things that you mentioned have changed the world.

------
larrys
"A lot of people think that they want to be an entrepreneur because it’s a
good way to make money. It just isn’t, that’s just wrong. Depending on how you
count, 95% to 99% of companies fail."

Excuse me. It is a way to make money. That figure assumes the definition of
entrepreneur is only startups as discussed in places like HN, Techcrunch etc.

Not only is the figure of 95% or 99% wrong with respect to "entrepreneurs"
(unless of course you increase the time to, say, 100 years at which case it
may be true across the board) but its like saying "don't apply to Harvard or
YC because the chance...". It doesn't take into account any particular persons
idea or qualifications to be a success.

But most importantly, the definition of being an entrepreneur also includes
running a small restaurant or opening a physical warehouse and selling
exercise equipment or starting a website to sell new and used office desks or
a million other ideas that will never make it to HN or TC that can make you a
good living.

~~~
jpdoctor
> _Not only is the figure of 95% or 99% wrong with respect to "entrepreneurs"_

I believe he's quoting numbers from Shikhar Ghosh at HBS. Here's one article
that google brought up with a little more detail about how "failure" is
defined:

 _The statistics are disheartening no matter how an entrepreneur defines
failure. If failure means liquidating all assets, with investors losing most
or all the money they put into the company, then the failure rate for start-
ups is 30 to 40 percent, according to Shikhar Ghosh, a senior lecturer at
Harvard Business School who has held top executive positions at some eight
technology-based start-ups. If failure refers to failing to see the projected
return on investment, then the failure rate is 70 to 80 percent. And if
failure is defined as declaring a projection and then falling short of meeting
it, then the failure rate is a whopping 90 to 95 percent._

<http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6591.html>

~~~
ImprovedSilence
Yup. But I'd like to see the numbers for second or third try entrepreneurs. of
all types. If my first three goes tank it, but the fourth one makes it,
OHBOYOHBOYOHBOY!. Then I've got a 75% fail rate, but I'm still a success.
(insert inspirational "fall down seven times, stand up eight",I havent failed,
I just found 99 ways that don't work" etc...)

~~~
lusr
Don't know why people are voting you down. I'd rather hit middle-age penniless
but full of experience and no regret, than look back and say "Well, I sure
managed to scrape by in life without taking any chances or attempting any of
my dreams!" There are plenty of stories of people who didn't start successful
business until their 40s but the net effect of the preceding 20/30 years gave
them a massive boost (e.g. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Bannatyne>).

------
larrys
"I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world"

This is such hogwash and brainwashing. People have to earn money and make a
living. Nothing wrong with that at all. And if you want to change the world
you have a better chance after earning a load of money.

There are people who have gone into medicine to make money (and not better the
world and save lives) and are great physicians and provide a service. And they
live in big houses have expensive things and enjoy themselves. That's fine.
Nothing to apologize about. Same with entrepreneurship or any pursuit
(education).

~~~
ramblerman
Nowhere in the article was "earning money" chastised as being bad. It just
suggested there are better options if that is your main goal.

"If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive, if
you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you should
just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a
consultant or something. You’ll be much more likely to make a lot of money
over the course of your career than by starting a company."

~~~
larrys
"It just suggested there are better options if that is your main goal"

Totally depends on the person. I visited my dentist the other day who clearly
didn't have a business head on him (we've spoken many times). He is better off
and will make a better living as a dentist giving his intelligence and
abilities. I'm married to a Physician and wanted to set her up in her own
office. She isn't interested, she would rather just work for the Hospital and
get a salary. Everyone is different. The best option for a particular person
to make money depends on the persona and their abilities.

As an aside, as far as being a "consultant". In general (as always) a
consultant doesn't really build any equity unless they have others working for
them. They don't have anything to sell (to someone else as an entity) and over
time need to constantly pick up clients and interact with clients. I built a
business and after 10 years I had something to sell. It was something that
didn't depend on me it had customers, employees etc.

------
muhfuhkuh
Or, if you _really_ want to change the world, alleviate the spectre of massive
world hunger by coming up with radical agricultural techniques and selective
breeding for drought resistance, then teach that technique to everyone you
know for free[1].

Or, come up with a novel vaccine for one of our most vexing diseases of our
time, then give away the formulation for free[2].

That's how you change the world.

Cue the capitalism-as-religion downvote squad, but this guy is a world class
putz if he thinks a cloud-based notepad is changing anything but 1st world
slight inconvenience.

[1]Norman Borlaug

[2]Jonas Salk

~~~
astine
While those men did great things, who actually implemented their discoveries?
Drug and biotech companies. Businesses have their place too.

------
jwoah12
> _But there’s only one good, legitimate reason, and I think you know what it
> is: it’s to change the world._

I think this is going overboard. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to want
to start his/her own company for less noble reasons than "changing the world."
This advises people to not give it a shot at all. Would I like to change the
world? Yes, I would. Do I reasonably expect that it will happen? No, I'm more
realistic than that. While I'm still young and don't have much tying me down,
though, I want to give it a shot. I'd much rather try, fail, and then have to
go back to the workforce than wind up staying the workforce my whole life
regretting not trying to start my own thing. I suppose you could make the
argument that any successful company will have to add value to the world in
some way, and adding value to the world changes it, but that isn't the way the
statement reads.

------
aguynamedrich
Reasons not to listen to this guy:

1\. Not all CEO's work 20 hour days, and he probably doesn't either

2\. Starting your own company can give you the ability to challenge the
outdated 9-to-5 sit-at-your-desk status quo more than working for someone else
can

3\. His skewed view of upcoming entrepreneurs as only the subset that bother
him for advice doesn't reflect on you or your ability to successfully launch
your own business

4\. Seriously, Evernote? It's cloud data with a bow around it.

5\. Working long hours doesn't mean slaving away at the office for long hours,
it means that you're always "on". If you start a business around something
you're passionate about, you'll be thinking about it all day anyway.

6\. Ryan Carson just told us last week that he works 32 hours a week, and his
company impacts the world a whole lot more than Evernote IMO (subjective, yes,
but Treehouse and Carsonified educate and connect people in a way they
couldn't have done otherwise, whereas you can eliminate the need for Evernote
by creating a folder or two on Dropbox).

7\. If you fail, you can always try again and/or re-join the work force.

8\. Most people would feel a lot better about trying and failing than not
trying at all.

And the number one reason I'd say this video should be completely ignored is
that you might actually succeed.

This video tells me very little about entrepreneurship. The real message is
that Evernote is run by a pretty unlikeable guy who would advise you, without
getting to know you, to be a working stiff your entire life instead of taking
chances. Advice that he obviously would not have taken himself.

------
runako
> _If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive,
> if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you
> should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a
> consultant or something._

This sounds like terrible advice for someone who is not motivated to do the
work of a banker or investor or consultant. I've seen many exceptionally
driven people lose their drive when employed at the wrong occupation.

------
javajosh
I love Evernote. It has changed my life. Before, I didn't have anywhere to put
all the ideas, insights, jokes, and stories I had in my head. Now, with one
key from anywhere I can get it out of my head and the feeling is incredible.

But, fuck the CEO of Evernote. How _dare_ he tell people not to start a
company? Not only is it idiotic (I mean, first and foremost, he did it so he's
a hypocrit; but secondly, someone started every company that exists. So if
people actually followed his advice we'd be stuck with the current crop of
companies...forever) but it's downright evil. To discourage people from
starting companies is to discourage people from building, from creating, from
giving form to their dreams. And that's inexcusable.

tl;dr Evernote is great; the CEO is a fuckwit.

EDIT: I got my first downvote, but I don't care. Discouraging people from
creating is evil, and when confronting evil there's no place for 'nice'.

------
MicahWedemeyer
I wonder how many of these speeches are motivated by salesmanship? Like, _Do
it because you've got a decent idea and you kinda think it might work and
maybe you'll make a little bit of money_ just doesn't have the same ring to it
as _Go change the world, kid!_

So, in order to get invited (or invited back) to speak in front of 100s of
people and plug your product/company, you change your speech (and backstory)
until it fits the mantra-du-jour. 3 years ago, the speech would be "Fail
Fast". A year ago, it would be "Learn to Pivot". Today, it's "Change the
World!"

As others have mentioned here, Evernote is not really an earth-shattering,
universe-changing product. That's perfectly OK in my book, but own up to that
fact. It's tiresome to hear people rewrite history and their own motivations
just to sell themselves.

------
jfernandez
This article's title is misleading, it should read more like "...Don't do it
for the wrong reasons" as he explains in the actual post. Beyond these reasons
there are tons of people who want to make a company because:

\- They will offer something novel or fresh

\- They have the passion to change an industry that has otherwise been
stagnant

\- They want to offer choice or competition for a product that has been
relatively monopolized

\- And to a smaller degree if they're outside of the NYC/SF area, bring the
tech scene to other areas of the world

~~~
lusr
It's more than that. He's conflating personal motivation with business model
validation. Yes your business model should be validated, but what's wrong with
pursuing money?

My goal has long been to work on my interests without having to worry about
money. But to do so requires financial independence. That's reality. So now
I'm pursuing money and looking at ways of generating income without selling my
time.

Is there any real evidence to show that people who pursue money don't end up
successful? I doubt it.

~~~
Mz
_Is there any real evidence to show that people who pursue money don't end up
successful?_

I once read that the 2% of people in some defined group who set financial
goals outperformed the other 98% _combined_.

------
mcbaby
Evernote is obviously a very successful company, and I'm sure Phil Libin is a
smart guy, but he comes off as a total snob saying this...

> "I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world" Most people who
> start a company start it to MAKE MONEY. Of course, he presents us with a
> false dilemma: you can either aspire to change the world, or have the desire
> to make money, earn power, etc. These are not mutually exclusive options.
> It's noble and all to want to change the world, but most people probably are
> out there trying to make a living...

> "If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive,
> if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you
> should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a
> consultant or something." I'd be fine with this if he finished the sentence
> with "become something you're passionate about." If you have all the
> qualities he mentions in the first part of the sentence, than pursue
> something you're genuinely interested in.

As a side note, I'd be interested to see a list of some entrepreneurs who
started companies with the sole intention of changing the world...

------
wsc981
As someone who's about to become an entrepreneur, my reasons are: \- Money: I
do believe I can make a lot of money with the company I intend to start, but I
should say I'm not going to start anything revolutionary, just corner a part
of the market where there's a big demand (mobile development by contract). It
should make me more money in less time then my current job does. \- Flextime:
I'm a bit of a work-a-holic so I'm kinda used to working 6 days a week. Most
of the time I enjoy it. What I don't enjoy in a regular job is the fact that
my employer wants me to work from 9 to 5. I'd like to be able to go jogging
and shopping in the afternoon for example and continue some work early in the
evening. \- Fun: I enjoy short-term projects (1 to 2 months) more then long-
term projects (1 year or more). \- Power: well, with power I mostly think
about the power to choose my own working processes and tools and not be
limited with what my manager decides upon. For example: I'm not very fond of
many aspects of SCRUM, but it seems kinda popular these days.

~~~
larrys
Would love to know why your comment was being downvoted.

------
antidaily
"you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor
or a consultant or something"

yeah, consulting. the pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. but at
least you have a nice salary to pay back your MBA student loans. and you get
to travel every week and get fat eating out every meal and drinking at
networking events.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
In direct contrast to software jobs, where you can stay very healthy by
spending an hour in the gym every day after sitting in a cubicle for your
10-hour workday.

~~~
dasil003
If you eat well and go to the gym for an intense (ie. not just jogging on the
treadmill) 1-hour workout every day, I think you'll be in quite decent shape.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
Actually, no. Sitting for large periods of time, past a certain age as I
remember, is simply harmful to your health. You can't "make it up" with
exercise later in the day.

~~~
dasil003
You don't make it up the negative effect of sitting, but you'll be in
generally better shape, perhaps by a greater margin than someone who never
sits but also never gets any strenuous exercise.

------
sundeep_b
It felt like I was a fresher listening to a senior at college doing the raw
talk about the truths at college. You might not like them at first, but you
will realize utterly that they are the truths and might even find yourself
saying the same to another fellow, a different day.

I couldn't agree with everything though - Evernote is second brain of the
universe? Is it not under rating the human brain? Human brain is capable of
many amazing things. If I am going to hear some one call something a second
brain, it should be able to take decisions. Evernote is only a digital
notebook that is accessible from many platforms keeping all the users away
from a lot of dirty work(copying, syncing, etc.). That's it. I don't think
that could ever CHANGE THE WORLD. That will only MAKE MY LIFE EASIER. I could
even argue that entrepreneurship is more about MAKING MY LIFE EASIER than
about CHANGING THE WORLD.

When I get five minutes of waiting time, I don't open evernote to write
something or read something. I open my twitter account and follow up with the
links on hackernewsbot and few other tweets from people I like. That makes me
feel productive. If I don't feel like reading technical things, I open my
facebook and check what my friends are upto and I still feel productive.

------
jpdoctor
> _A lot of people think that they want to be an entrepreneur because it’s a
> good way to make money. It just isn’t, that’s just wrong. Depending on how
> you count, 95% to 99% of companies fail._

Bubbles like the one we have now are not common. It will continue until the
Fed takes away the punchbowl, so make hay while the sun shines (and mix those
metaphors while the mixing is good.)

~~~
anon01
What about the entrepreneurs who pay themselves ridiculous salaries once they
get even a little funding? It seems like a great way to make money. Our
founder is the highest paid person in the company and we live one month at a
time because of it. Is this common during the bubble, or is my situation
unique?

Highest paid is fact, one month at a time is opinion.

~~~
jpdoctor
> _Is this common during the bubble_

Yes. We saw it a bunch during Bubble v1.

I thought it was nuts then: Weren't the people/VCs supplying the money paying
attention? After a while, you realize that easy money covers up a lot of sins
over several levels of the foodchain.

When money tightens, those sins will be expurgated, but until then: Party on.

EDIT: To expand a bit, it's not "normal" as ericflo says in another reply and
I agree it's a "bad" sign.

I'm just pointing out that as long as those supplying the money are seeing
positive returns, they're busy working their other opportunities. When Sequoia
republishes "RIP: Good Times", out comes the microscope on spending and board
meetings will go over details that were ignored before.

------
wslh
Regarding "Flex time" it is nice to also compare with the other extreme "On
managing my time" by Martin Varsavsky:
[http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/new-ideas/on-managing-
my-...](http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/new-ideas/on-managing-my-time.html)

------
grannyg00se
A true entrepreneur wouldn't be dissuaded by somebody else's "don't do it"
advice.

------
jakejake
I don't think this advice applies to every type of business. Particularly
service-oriented startups that are able to land paying clients right from the
beginning.

I will agree though that working at a company that isn't financially stable is
not a good place for someone who needs financial stability. Imagine your boss
telling you that your next paycheck will only be half - or they can't pay it
at all, but you'll get paid back later. Imagine that happening occasionally
throughout the year. Add to that a constant, looming feeling that your company
could go out of business any day even though you love working there. If those
kinds of things upset or stress you out then a startup probably isn't a good
place to work.

------
niels_olson
> Power ... join the military

Actually, I'm a mid grade officer in the Navy; I was recently told I was "part
of the seniority plan" in my unit. I knew where Libin was going with that as
soon as I read the subtitle. I answer to _everyone_!

------
famousactress
IMHO the article misses the best part of the talk (in the middle somewhere).
Ironically, given the "don't do it" bit.. Libin makes the point that now's a
better time than ever to be an entrepreneur, and among the usual
OSS/StuffsCheapNow points, he concludes that today the best product is more
likely to 'win' than it has been in the past... Especially in the consumer
space. Further pointing out that this essentially creates a meritocracy for
people who are good at making things (even if they suck at sales/marketing).

The talk is definitely better than the flamebait title.

------
tlogan
Starting a company should be about making money. There are also other reasons
but I think they should be considered as secondary.

------
jzycrzy
Who's the audience? Sounds to me like he's looking for employees who will take
a piece of changing the world (equity?) over cold hard cash.

Based on all the talkers I hear, and the positive feedback they constantly get
about how "cool" it is that they want to be an entrepreneur.. I think a good
hard "don't do it" would be helpful fire under their butts to JFDI.

------
gexla
Reason to do it: Because you have to. When all else fails, your only option my
be to hustle up your own work. For the thousands of people in the U.S. who
have been unemployed for over a year, do it! I'm another example, I live in
the Philippines but I can't work here because I'm a U.S. citizen, so my only
option is running my own business.

------
jganetsk
I hear this exact message a million times on Hacker News: a speech from an
entrepreneur discouraging others to be like him/her... unless they are really
serious about it. This is played to the point of cliche. For once, I'd love to
see an article entitled "don't do it" and really actually mean it.

------
mvkel
I'm not sure what the point of this talk is. Are people supposed to walk away,
saying "wow, that was inspiring!"

If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all.

Entrepreneurship is very much an individual sport in that there are no hard
and fast rules. Take all advice with a grain of pepper.

------
stevewilhelm
"Seven out of 10 new employer firms survive at least 2 years, half at least 5
years, a third at least 10 years, and a quarter stay in business 15 years or
more." - According to the US SBA <http://s831.us/IXGBFK>

------
rexreed
Who doesn't start a business thinking they're going to make money? Wouldn't it
otherwise be called charity or a hobby? Sure, maybe not hogwild money, but I
think getting paid for something for delivering something of value might be a
definition of business?

------
ngsayjoe
My number 1 reason to be an entrepreneur is freedom, and money is the means to
freedom ...

------
tgrass
I don't know anyone who makes more than $500K a year. Everyone I know who
makes more than $60K a year running their own business, says their only regret
is not starting earlier.

------
kreutz
What else are we suppose to do?

~~~
inafield
We're supposed to be his employees instead of challenging him in a crowded
market. This way he makes more money from ideas we might have put forward and
each one of us is one less competitor for him.

Really though, if an entrepreneur is going to be dissuaded by this speech,
they probably shouldn't be trying in the first place.

------
carguy1983
Ooh, me, me, pick me. Let me guess! Do it because you want to _change the
world_?

It's a laughable, tired cliche now, especially coming from a guy who made the
equivalent of a digital hipster moleskine who isn't changing a god damn thing
about this world. People are still broke, sick, and starving. But I can take
awesome notes on my MacBook Air!

The better answer is "because it's interesting and fun and challenging and
sometimes disappointing and a fantastic learning experience and you might get
rich or go broke while experiencing the full, unfiltered range of human
emotions and potential".

It also happens to be more truthful and conforms more to the modal outcome.

~~~
jmcannon
"because it's interesting and fun and challenging and sometimes disappointing
and a fantastic learning experience and you might get rich or go broke while
experiencing the full, unfiltered range of human emotions and potential"

This is one of the best articulations of why I'm an entrepreneur that I've
read. Thanks.

~~~
lusr
Absolutely agreed. All I know is I will COMPLETELY lose my mind if I'm still
working for somebody else (as a contractor or employee) in 5 years; his advice
to stick with the paying job while figuring out what you want doesn't address
what to do when your repeated conclusion after all the thinking is: "work for
myself, build out my ideas".

The only way to deal with this conclusion is to _act_ : to go out there and
experience working for yourself, and _test_ your instincts and savy against
reality. I don't care whether my projects succeed or fail at this point; I'm
just happy I'm focused on exploring my potential and my desires.

I still have the day job, for security and capital, and I have only chosen to
pursue ideas that DO impact people's lives (otherwise why would people use
it?); none of this stuff is mutually exclusive!

------
mmukhin
Troll or motivation by saying "rest of you can't do what I did." Sounds like a
troll.

