
Ask HN: How to find work while homeless? - vertex-four
I&#x27;m at my wits end.<p>I was made homeless and had my financial support dropped at the beginning of the year, and am currently staying in squats etc in the Netherlands. I have nearly no income - 10 euros a week in donations towards an open-source project I&#x27;m working on to build a live video streaming platform for the fediverse, and occasional requests for solidarity funds.<p>My situation is... not great. Half my time is taken up by anxiety around police violence, illegal evictions, my friends being arrested. Still, in the immediate term, it&#x27;s better than sleeping rough.<p>I&#x27;m not sure how to find work; I&#x27;ve not had a paying job in the last 8 years. I&#x27;ve worked on software for myself and others in hackerspaces and the like; and helped run a volunteer cafe for a large portion of last year (sinking 20+ hours a week into that fairly consistently), but I can&#x27;t seem to even turn that into an actual paying cafe job. I go through bursts of sending dozens of applications a week to anything that is vaguely relevant to anything I&#x27;ve done in the past, and receive... mostly nothing in response.<p>I don&#x27;t know what&#x27;s wrong with me. All I want is to make enough money to survive. I&#x27;m going to be dead in a few months if I can&#x27;t work something out.<p>Does anyone have any advice, at all?
======
jsdevtom
Homeless shelters often offer the homeless an address. Use this address to get
a bank account (you may have to go in to a few branches to find one who
accepts the homeless shelter address). Now walk around town and ask for a job
in every restaurant/ Cafe/ whatever and give them your CV and ask if they have
any jobs. As long as you are smartly dressed and smell fine, you should be
able to find a job. Try not to do illegal work - it's often a scam. Shave in
the local library with disposable razors when there are hardly any people
there. Use this time to wash as well. Now, the bank may need an employers wage
slip. Explain to the employer that you need a letter from them for the bank in
order to open a bank account stating that you will be working for them soon.
Give this letter to the bank. This often works. Try to tell as few people as
possible that you are homeless. You will probably have to improvise on these
steps. Most importantly and the hardest: remove the victim's mentallity. You
are breathing, appreciate everything that you can, even adversity. Nothing is
wrong with you. You will look back on this time in the future and be grateful
for this. Without it you would not be as strong as you are going to be.

------
rndgermandude
Frankly, finding a job isn't your problem right now, being homeless is,
because of the way things work in most of Europe: it is almost impossible to
find a steady job without an address.

There is professional help you can get for free from charitable organizations
that will not only help you find a residence but also advise/help you with
government agencies and help you get any welfare you may be entitled to, law
enforcement (if needed) or jobs.

Use this help and don't try to do it alone; most people who try on their own
fail, while the success rates for people taking help are a lot, lot better.
Especially considering that you seem to have more or less exhausted the help
your friends/family can provide, to no avail.

I was once told by somebody working for such an organization, that in Germany
the success rates to at least stop homelessness is near 100% for all
"reasonably sane", "reasonably sober" and "reasonably cooperative" people if
they accepted help from such an organization, and I'd guess it will be not
that different in the Netherlands.

E.g. this seems to give a good overview:
[https://dutchreview.com/expat/housing/if-youre-homeless-
in-t...](https://dutchreview.com/expat/housing/if-youre-homeless-in-the-
netherlands-what-next/)

------
jchallis
Find a church - neither too big nor too small. Introduce yourself as someone
willing to do assist with the IT/ secretarial / etc. in exchange for warm food
and a shelter bed. Churches have very large networks. When you get on your
feet, and you will, remember who helped you survive.

~~~
fsloth
Churches aren't like that in Europe. They are not communities nor are they
huge. A church is an office where a priest and maybe some assisting staff
work, and the priest performs weekly some ceremonies. But there is really no
community as such.

~~~
luckylion
This might depend heavily on the country and location, but that's not my
experience. I'm not religious, but I know some people who are, and their
churches are quite active in their local communities, doing charity work,
helping the homeless and the poor in general.

I live in an area that's heavily dominated by protestants, so my experience is
mostly with them, I don't know how that's for catholic areas. The Netherlands
are famously protestant as well, might be similar.

~~~
fsloth
Ok, cool, I was not aware of this. I thought they were all sadly just waiting
to become obsolete. In what area are you in?

~~~
AnimalMuppet
The churches that are full of people who attend church because their parents
did are, as you so well put it, sadly waiting to become obsolete.

There are churches, however, where many of the people are there because they
genuinely believe it, and they think that they have very good reason to
believe it (and they aren't afraid of engaging with atheists who think
otherwise), and they try to live out what they believe in real life. If you
find a church like that, it feels and acts completely different.

------
abinaya_rl
Remote Leaf[1] founder here, I would like to offer you three months of free
membership, that might help you land a remote job since you have coding
skills. We hand-pick thousands of remote jobs from tons of job boards and only
sends the ones that apply to you. Just ping me on Twitter and send me an email
to avail this :)

[1] - [https://remoteleaf.com](https://remoteleaf.com)

~~~
wackget
C'mon, don't advertise your website on a post where someone's looking for
help. If you truly cared and didn't just want to advertise your service you'd
have PMd the OP and your comment wouldn't sound so much like a marketing ploy.

~~~
tucaz
Could you please help me understand what has @abinaya_rl done wrong?

I can't find harm in any way I look at it.

He offered the help he could. If the OP wants to take it, he can. He plugged
his company while doing it, and others might benefit from getting to know
about it.

Where's the problem? He probably did it in a different way than you would, but
still. What's wrong with that?

------
nanna
Hello friend, I'm sorry to hear that things are so difficult. Remember that
even this shall pass, so please hold on.

For the immediate term, I would recommend looking for an easy brainless job
that would bring in some money while being easy to quit, so that you can look
for coding work. A bar, cafe, pizza shop, whatever. Ideally somewhere where
squat-friendly people work. It sounds like it could be good for you to be
around other people, so I would personally do that instead of Upwork.

Coding work - I would suggest seeing if any small NGOs, charities or companies
need some help. Don't necessarily wait for job adverts - just get in touch
directly with a warm intro and a nice cv. In my experience they are often in a
total state of chaos when it comes to their tech, and having someone who can
straighten things out is incredibly valuable to them. The pay's not
necessarily great, but it's meaningful and you'll get to employ a wide range
of skills and be your own boss.

It's unclear what you mean by being 'dead in a few months'. Can I suggest that
if you are contemplating suicide you reach out for help on that immediately,
ok?

~~~
squiggleblaz
> It's unclear what you mean by being 'dead in a few months'. Can I suggest
> that if you are contemplating suicide you reach out for help on that
> immediately, ok?

If that's what op means, then op is. OP's attempting to fulfill their basic
needs to remove the temptation. Listening to someone who will say "please
don't kill yourself, your problems can be coped with" doesn't help. Talking to
someone who will say "so these are the specific things to help your problems,
and I will walk with you to help get you there". But that's the job of a
social worker, not a suicide prevention hotline.

------
burgerquizz
I've read the comments you've written on HN.

It really feels like you have a good understanding of many tech out there. I'm
a bit surprised a profile like yours post this.It feels like you could easily
pick up any entry level dev job? HN would always surprise me.

If I were you, I'd show up in every tech meetups I could find.Talk with
people, and offer free (paid?) advices for subject you feel comfortable with.
After few weeks, I think you could get a bit of money for consulting or even a
job offer.

~~~
clarry
> It feels like you could easily pick up any entry level dev job? HN would
> always surprise me.

Don't underestimate the extreme prejudice in tech hiring. Everyone's looking
out for "red flags" and excuses to turn down a candidate. It's especially bad
if you don't have either 1) recent, relevant education, or 2) recent, relevant
industry experience. Open source participation might save you but not as often
as you'd think, if only because few people have time for substantial open
source projects and if you have non-substantial contributions, that's rarely
enough to overcome the prejudice.

Add any other things that work against you, for example lack of employment,
ugly face, awkward speech or shy presence, yeah a lot of companies are just
going to think you're a loser, or at least not the talented individual they
need. Those who can afford to train people (= hire for entry level positions)
are usually larger companies that siphon fresh grads and interns, and they
seem to have enough supply that they don't need to look for people on the
streets.

In short, very few companies are willing to take chances with someone who
hasn't made it through the filters already, unless they see something
exceptional. And the entry level filters are heavily biased in favor of
students, and against unemployed people.

~~~
Scarblac
Als being homeless is a huge red flag for any job. It's a nasty spiral.

~~~
lazyjones
Being homeless in a rich European country with proper welfare systems screams
of 'mental health issues'. Of course it will be a red flag for any job.

~~~
vertex-four
Technically speaking, I have a residential address that I can get post
delivered to; squatting is nice like that. Nobody knows I'm homeless, except
everyone on HN now.

~~~
Scarblac
That helps a lot. Do you have a good LinkedIn page with a list of technologies
you've done something with?

------
vasco
I live in the Netherlands (Amsterdam region), I'm not Dutch so my network here
isn't very large to help you with a job, but worst case I could buy you a
coffee and have a chat with a fellow dev. Let me know, my email is vasco g
pinho with no spaces at gmail.com.

~~~
fapi1974
Just wanted to say this is what I was looking for in this discussion - people
actually offering to help directly. Hope you can connect with OP.

------
marcus_holmes
I solved this problem for myself 30 years ago by turning up outside the local
Manpower offices at 7am with safety boots on. The local construction gangs
picked up any extra workers they needed for the day there, and it was halfway
decent cash-in-hand work. I earned enough for my share of the deposit for a
house share with a mate, and the rest was easier once I had an address.

But times have changed and I very much doubt that would work any more.

However, now there is Upwork (and several other similar). If you can meet the
basics with that: a bank account, a network connection, a laptop, a basic
understanding of PHP and enough Google Fu to understand a Stack Overflow
answer, etc, then you can actually make some money there. It's not very
interesting, but it does pay money.

~~~
dpau
Upwork has its issues, and it can take a while to find a good gig, but if you
have software skills you should definitely be able to find work there.

------
Jugurtha
I think we need to reframe the problem.

It shouldn't be how to find work while homeless, it should be how to find
shelter while jobless.

Finding work _while_ homeless is akin to getting married with a cut femoral
artery. Can be done, but the odds of success of the former are improved if we
stop the bleeding.

I think changing the amenities situation should be top priority. That should
be the objective. How can you get shelter, especially during the night, in an
affordable manner for your current situation?

\- Shelters

\- Working at jobs that require an extended presence on site where it's more
practical to live there than commute: boats, hospitality (hostels), buildings
(concierge), assisting a limited mobility or elderly person (stay at home or
retirement home), night security (you stay there in the night, which is more
dangerous, and try to find another job during the day. Naps during the day in
a park are less dangerous).

Can I send money to get you in a hostel for a few days just to bootstrap the
thing?

~~~
akeck
Having worked with newly resettled refugees, I personally think this comment
is a very important observation.

------
louwrentius
I don't know you and I might be wrong. But not having a paying job for the
last 8 years feels to me like you have some personal issues and now being
homeless is a symptom of that.

If you are a UK citizen, you should absolutely be able to get the professional
help you need from that country.

~~~
avgDev
Unfortunately, this is what is stopping OP from getting a job. I don't know
how to even help as it is very difficult situation to be in, if he is not even
getting any call backs.

------
notenoughhorses
It sounds like you might need a bit more help than just job suggestions. Does
your city have any social services non-profits that help with job searching? I
recommend going to one of those and even if they can't help with your exact
issues, they might be able to refer you to people / organizations who can
help, given more details of what you're dealing with.

If you're on HN, I'm guessing you have marketable skills, even if that means
office admin work. So the challenge might be something other than your skill
set. You say you haven't had a regular job in 8 years which makes me wonder if
that's because the stuff that comes with regular jobs is particularly
difficult for you (having to show up at x time, sit there for y hours, fitting
into the culture of the office, etc)?

------
predators372
I don't have much to contribute for lack of experience with the field, but I
want you to specifically and deliberately renounce what you say in your last
paragraphs. There is nothing WRONG with you. This is a tough situation, a lot
of people of lesser caliber would've already crumbled, and you're GOING to
solve it and move forward with your life and very likely with your career.
Breathe. It sucks. It's okay that it sucks because it won't suck later.

You got this, friend.

------
lazyjones
1\. get away from these "friends".

2\. find any (non-IT, just 20h if necessary) job through the job centre etc.
to feed you and finance a home

3\. research and visit all potential organizations that provide benefits while
you are unemployed

------
dijit
Er, that doesn't sound like a good position.

I can't really relate; although I grew up in poverty and understand that
aspect of things and it took me a very long time to get my first job (and,
even my second job actually).

Does anyone ever give you feedback on why they are not hiring you? It's
possible that it's something small but people are reluctant to give negative
feedback if it doesn't benefit them to do so.

If I were in the same situation as you (IE; very little industry experience as
an employee) I might consider leaning heavily on my github profile, make sure
it's as polished as possible, figure out the key things you enjoy working on
and then make it appear as if you do those things often. -- Finding bugs in
lots of software is a great way to get your activity boxes to light up dark
green!

Hiring managers (I speak from experience as I am responsible for hiring peers,
though not as a manager) love to see something clear and consistent. So if
you're a dabbler it might be more tricky to convey competence. Try to find a
focus area; contribute to, or build something with a clear singular purpose
(like saltstack or grafana)

Second is to get as many eyes from technologists on your profile, your CV,
whatever. Feedback will go a long way. You can find people on freenode (or
here) to do this.

Third I would look for companies _outside_ of my local country, because:

    
    
      1) they will over some kind of relocation package (which might be monetary)
      2) they will pay for flights/hotel on the last stage of interview
      3) they will likely find accommodation for you if you get hired.
      (for 3-6months while you get on your feet).
    

This is easier to do if you're in Europe. :)

Cafe's are obviously your friend when interviewing. But getting your foot in
the door is probably the hardest thing.

FWIW; my studio is hiring relatively aggressively and we're based in Malmo,
Sweden.

The relocation package is reimbursement for expenses and 6months of living in
our apartments, in general the people working in the studio care about
competence not experience, you just need to get around the HR filter somehow.

[https://www.massive.se/career/](https://www.massive.se/career/)

------
blhack
Get a job for a small company with no IT department doing some sort of office
work or data entry. Automate parts of your job, or write reports for your
boss.

Now your boss will ask you to write more reports for HIS boss, and suddenly
you are employed as a programmer. If you like that job, keep it, or leave for
somewhere else that will hire you with a more appropriate programmers salary.

------
pvaldes
Is there some good reason for you to want to stay in Netherlands?

I'm just speculating, and maybe this is not for you, but perhaps you could
consider moving to a southern place.

Same problems as now, same difficulties, same police and nasty people but...

1) A little of sun and a less harsh climate can do wonders in your soul. Only
for that you should consider putting some distance from dutch's winter.

2) You speak english well in the Mediterranean tourism sector, you have the
95% of the job yet.

3) An unique look can be used as an advantage. Is easier to blend in a
holidays place. People feel less territorial, are more customed to see
different people and more forgiving. Entertainers, performers, extravagant
dresses etc... are expected. Drunk people is everywhere in the coast and can
be dangerous, but with a low entry job, you can start building some safety for
you, stay out of the streets and navigate most problems. Doing remote work,
you can be as invisible as you want.

4) You need spending less in clothes and can dress casual more easily. You can
use the sea and beach showers for free each time you need a bath.

5) Somebody lying in a street all day is a homeless, Somebody lying in a beach
all day is a tourist. If you can find a safe place for your properties first
(!) and keep a clean look and low profile, you could sleep all day under an
umbrella. Nobody will care about it, and nobody will call the police for that.
Just remain in places with more people, be careful with pickpockets, cover
your skin from excesive sun with light clothes or/and sunscreen and the
problem of not enough sleeping quality time is fixed.

I assume that some of this areas have a gay friendly scene also and that many
people needing publicity, accounting, and web pages to promote their bussiness
could find useful your computer skills.

------
LouisSayers
First of all, nothing’s wrong with you! You’re feeling down about your
situation, but situations can be changed. It’s important to have the mindset
that it’s temporary and to know that your situation will improve. If you have
to, write down how you want your life to be in the future and read it to
yourself every day. Remind yourself of the skills and value that you have and
make small steps every day to move towards your goals.

Appearance - this is important, I’d work to make myself look, sound and smell
very much the opposite of what you’d think a homeless person might look and
smell like. Make sure you are clean, well groomed, and if you need to, ask
people if they can help buy you some clothes that make you look presentable.
Most homeless people ask for money on the street. They never ask for something
specific. I believe if you ask for specific things you want - like ask someone
if they can buy you a shirt to help you get a job, you will find someone that
will do it. Don’t be afraid to ask people for help - I believe people want to
help others.

You have by the sounds of it many skills. You’ve worked in a cafe and can
provide references for that so I would go for that angle and look for cafe
work.

If you need documents such as tenancy, first see if you can find a legitimate
way of solving the problem, but tbh if I was in your position and needed
documents I would just forge them - you have the skills and it’s not hard to
do things like give someone a number of a friend and get them to pretend to be
someone.

You might want to make a living out of programming, but you need to look after
your living situation first. Go for the low hanging fruit, get a cafe job and
work your way up slowly from there. Get away from the other homeless people
and get into a hostel. Make new friends and focus your mind on things away
from the dramas of living as a homeless person.

Good luck! Be strong and small steps every day.

------
dr0per
With your current state of mind you should take a break from coding. Try to
find a easy job, just to have a place to stay, eat and sleep and after 6-8
months, or when you feel better, you can attempt to seek it opportunities.

------
gwbas1c
Lots of good advice in the highly-rated responses. I can't add much to those.
But, this is what strikes a nerve:

> I've not had a paying job in the last 8 years

Once you get through this, remember that idealism doesn't pay the bills.

At a certain point, if you can't make a living doing it, it's not worth doing.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't volunteer for things or avoid charity work,
but consider this: You're not financially independent. What you spend most of
your waking hours needs to pay the bills. It's your choice if you want to work
well below your earning potential because it's something you believe in or
enjoy, but whatever you work on, it has to generate enough income that you can
pay your bills.

------
PopeDotNinja
I used to be homeless, so I have some thoughts:

\- guard your laptop with your life, cuz you don't wanna lose it if you can't
afford to replace it

\- study your ass off

\- don't bring homelessness into job interviews, as it is a big distraction
for the employer

------
bojan
Google the "daklozenloket" and the place name where you are. They should be
able to help you. That is your priority number one, getting registered
somewhere. The Netherlands has a good welfare system, make use of it.

Then start looking for jobs. Developer jobs are plenty. Ignore the 5 year
experience requirements, in these times those are wishlists more than the
actual requirements.

Considering you are British, are you allowed to work in the Netherlands?

~~~
vertex-four
Yes, I am allowed to work in the Netherlands. The EU is still a thing, Brexit
didn't change anything yet. After the end of this year it's different, but
assuming that I can find work, I'm permitted to stay here "temporarily"
(assuming I stay in work) until 5 years are up, then permanently.

------
MoroCode
This sounds very rough, wishing you all the best. I would say the main goal
for you here is survival and having a roof over your head. Maybe consider
getting a minimum wage job somewhere to at least give you enough money for
food and rent while you keep looking for another job in the field you love.
The other thing is to look at remote jobs. There are plenty out there
especially nowadays. Wishing you all the best

------
akavel
Try contacting
[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=DoreenMichele](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=DoreenMichele),
see contact info in her profile — she's been homeless (though in US IIUC) and
writes openly about that, and about helping people in this unfortunate
situation, she might hopefully be able to help and support you in some
practical ways.

------
DickingAround
One option: Take any job in any industry from well functioning (i.e. large)
company. They'll have to offer it as a real, paying job and not some half-
formed idea. Doesn't have to be software (though it sounds like that's the
general skill set we've got here). Once you have living money, you can decide
if you want to go bigger on living money or spend the rest of your effort on
hobby projects.

------
andrem
I cannot promise anything but I’m in the Utrecht area and would be more than
happy to give you some advice face to face or potentially help you somehow
with projects if there is a fit.

Do you have an email address to reach you?

~~~
vertex-four
Sure, my address is shell@alterednarrative.net.

~~~
andrem
Thanks!

------
elwell
I'm glad you chose to reach out. If you'd like another pair of eyes to
proofread your resume/cv, send me an email at elwell.christopher at gmail.
Also I'd be happy to talk about spiritual things, God, Christianity, if that's
something you're interested in.

------
leandot
With your english and the fact that you're technical you should be able to get
a job at least in a call/support center, if not in the Netherlands, then at
least somewhere in CEE. You should be able to get 1-2k euro/month, get back to
your feet and start over. Good luck!

------
machiaweliczny
Amazon Warehouse / Tech support --> something better. If you are good at
coding you can make side money at freelance websites. If you are legit good at
coding and can prove it to me and don't mind moving to Poland then I can
referr you to at least one offer a day.

------
ijidak
I'm really sorry to hear about your situation.

Please don't give up.

An ancient proverb says, "Better is the end of a matter than its beginning."
Meaning, with patience and effort things generally CAN get better.

From your messages, it is clear that you are intelligent.

So, it's just a matter of diagnosing what have been your road blocks up to
this point, and keep pushing forward through it.

This article has some suggestions of what has worked for others in a homeless
situation.

I hope that it helps you come up with a few ideas.

[https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201505/hope-
homeles...](https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201505/hope-homelessness-
poverty-help-solution/)

------
dutchblacksmith
In Rotterdam these people might help:
[https://www.ontmoeting.org/locaties/](https://www.ontmoeting.org/locaties/)
Or: [https://www.rotterdam.nl/wonen-
leven/wijkteams/](https://www.rotterdam.nl/wonen-leven/wijkteams/) or:
[https://www.rotterdam.nl/locaties/centraal-onthaal-
volwassen...](https://www.rotterdam.nl/locaties/centraal-onthaal-volwassenen/)

------
fredgrott
Look folks let's see if we can help this dude out...

First, everything is very noisy now. You need to switch to putting out free
value somewhere online so that potential employers see it. I was doing it your
way, although different set of circumstances, doing a whole bunch of hey look
at me will not work in a very crowded room.

So vertex-four do you have anything online that you can point to so we can use
Hn to get the word out?

We know by your moniker that you might be math inclined(as it refers to the
four vertex theorem) for one and programming for second.

------
iansowinski
As people here suggest I would try finding any kind of low income job first.
For what it takes.

Than when you sort things out and have stable living situation (have place to
live and food to eat) you can get back to tech - start attending meetups and
maybe try applying jobs via this personal contacts.

I don't know how churches work in Netherlands, in Poland you would get some
help - it really depends from people. If you won't reach out for help, you
won't get it.

------
monroenoc
Make a Patreon! You mentioned that you work on an open-source project and also
ran a volunteer cafe. Sounds like you are a genuine and hard-working person.
Tell your story and I think you will be surprised at how generous and
supportive strangers on the Internet can be :)

[https://www.patreon.com/](https://www.patreon.com/)

(Please let us know once made and also post to your other social medias!)

------
DoreenMichele
My resources are US-centric, but this is what I can direct you to:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/GigWorks/comments/e81eba/welcome/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GigWorks/comments/e81eba/welcome/)

Hope that helps. Best of luck.

Edit: I will add _There 's nothing wrong with you. The gig economy is proving
to be a painful transition for a lot of people._

------
snoozypants
What is your actual background;

\- did you study \- how much coding experience do you have \- which languages
\- what types of jobs are you applying for \- do you have a smartphone (is
there not something like [https://postmates.com/](https://postmates.com/) in
Netherlands) \- do you have friends or family who have jobs in businesses (or
their own businesses) \- Etc

~~~
vertex-four
I have an HNC in Computing from the UK - basically a vocational pre-university
qualification. It's not amazingly useful. Shortly after achieving that a lot
of mental health stuff popped up which derailed things for a few years, so uni
wasn't a thing.

I've been coding for a very long time, and am a polyglot - Python, Go,
javascript on both frontend and backend, bash. Current project is largely
Go+Python+bash. Previous completed projects were in node.js and Python. A pile
of personal and small scale Linux server admin experience to go with that.
Nothing professional, unless you count the time I told someone about
letsencrypt and they gave me $200.

I've been applying for everything I can find that matches that experience and
doesn't have a requirement of "a degree and 5 years commercial experience". In
addition, anything cafe-wise that turns up, call center jobs (even though I
have severe phone anxiety), anything else that looks vaguely bearable. I have
separate CVs per job type, but the fact that I have not had paying work in
such a long time is what gets me ignored.

I tried to sign up for the local cycle couriering services here and was
denied, apparently I am not fast enough at cycling.

I do not have friends or family who have their own businesses, or who could
help me find a role in a business they work for.

~~~
klyrs
You say uni wasn't a thing... could it be? I apologize; I don't know anything
about life in the Netherlands (namely how funding and entrance requirements
go) but a few years in uni might be a good career reset.

~~~
vertex-four
Unfortunately not, I don't have the requisite qualifications to actually enter
university here.

~~~
clarry
Not recommending it in this situation but know that there are things like The
Open University ([http://www.open.ac.uk/](http://www.open.ac.uk/)) which can
get you a tuition without the prerequisite secondary degree.

Also idk about the Netherlands but in Finland there are "open path" routes to
polytechnics (and probably universities) that you can attend for a small fee
with no other requirements. The trick here is that if you study long enough
and accumulate enough ECTS credits, then you may either get directly accepted
as a full time student (thus making you eligible for all the usual benefits),
or they can let you take the entrance exam and then become a full time
student. All this without requiring the secondary degree that you'd normally
need to enter.

Just something to keep in mind if you ever want to consider getting a degree.

------
terenceng2010
There are some non-technical online jobs from Appen or Lionbridge that should
give you some stable income each month (at max about 100~200USD per month).
These jobs usually require you to work from 10~20 hours per week. Besides,
there are websites like utest (do testing) and clickworker(microtask), which
doesn't have stable income but at the same time much less commitment.

------
timwaagh
Um if you're near utrecht i've got a garden to fix. i never get around to it.
i dont know where in the netherlands you are, but if its utrecht it might be
the trouble of walking/biking. I will offer a meager ten euro for it. theres
some other things that need to be done here as well as i want the place to be
ready for paying guests. Do you have any skills like tiling? I want tiles in
my kitchen. If you know about phones well my phone needs fixing or replacing.
as for jobs, try the dutch post or sandd. anybody can do that. just like me,
they dont pay well. but its steady and better than nothing. if you need an
address, pay somebody for registration. thats fraud, but fairly common and i
dont think anybody cares. you can try working in it after that. you need an
address for it. but lots of consultancies need fresh bodies to throw at
clients. they wont ask too many questions.

------
garethsprice
Freelance IT/web services? Get a haircut, dress nice. You can thrift a decent
shirt and slacks - or charities will often be able to help provide these for
free. Start telling local business owners you can help with their IT and
website needs, then wait for the phone to ring. It will be slow at first, but
once you get momentum you'll hopefully be turning work away! Set a goal of
talking to 5 potential clients a week, and be sure to ask for paid work.

Once you do a good job for someone, ask if you can use them as a reference -
and if they know 2-3 other people who could use your services. Show up on
time, respond to calls/messages and you're already a cut above most others.
Don't undercharge for your services, and raise your prices regularly. Try and
find ways to have clients pay you on a retainer basis so you have consistent
cashflow (managed hosting, regular maintenance, on-call retainers etc). Remote
work didn't work for me (too much competition from people in cheaper countries
- and my best clients were people who did not have the tech skills to even use
those sites), building in-person local relationships did (including at
meetups/conferences with people I then worked for remotely).

You won't get rich this way, but you should be able to find enough business
owners who need reliable, friendly help with _something_ \- data entry,
setting up Google Suite or VOIP phone systems, basic websites, CRUD web apps,
databases, automation, spyware removal, etc. Plus you end up with a portfolio
that can help you get a full-time tech job - "consulting" counts as industry
experience, and I found employers liked that I could handle a project end-to-
end, understanding the business needs involved. This was my path, including
the near-homelessness. I started making banner ads for $10/hr. My first $100
day was a real milestone. I'm now an Engineering Manager at a large company
(~10 years later).

Best of luck to you. Hang in there, hustle hard.

------
csomar
That’s a bit surprising given that the Netherlands has a generous social
system. I’ll try as a first step to ask and look for government organizations
that could potentially help and give you free stuff.

Next, I’ll drop tech for a while. I’ll look for _any_ job that has low or no
barrier to entries. Washing cars, cleaning carpets, collecting garbage, etc...
These are jobs with little barriers to entry and that will have no problems
accepting you if you did sleep on the street yesterday.

After you get yourself a place to stay, better clothes, and a haircut then
I’ll start branching into tech again.

~~~
vertex-four
The Netherlands has a generous social system that I can't access because I'm
not actually from here. It happens to be the last place I was in when I was
told I didn't have a home or money any more.

Going "home" is kinda pointless - there's not actually any support in the UK
for people like me, so I'd be sleeping rough there quickly anyway.

~~~
csomar
> The Netherlands has a generous social system that I can't access because I'm
> not actually from here.

Then any reason why you are there? Are you allowed to legally work in the
Netherlands.

> there's not actually any support in the UK for people like me

I'm pretty sure there is. 2/3 of British families receive some kind of
benefits in Britain. You might have to ask for it. I also suspect there is
more to this story (like do you have something serious in your records).

I'd go to the British Embassy, ask them to get me to the UK, present myself to
the government and ask for any help. Then proceed to the plan outlined
previously.

Heck, I'm from Tunisia, an almost non-functional and bankrupt country and the
government does have some benefits (like food, basic medical care) for the
really in need.

~~~
vertex-four
> Then any reason why you are there? Are you allowed to legally work in the
> Netherlands.

I am.

> I'm pretty sure there is.

There's a very complicated system, but tl;dr being unable to find work would
cause me to lose benefits and be left without a home. I don't trust that I
would be able to find a job, so I would prefer to keep a roof over my head for
now.

To add to the mess, I'm trans, which means companies (even big ones) will not
put me in a position where customers might possibly see me, or where they
might wind up with another coworker causing an HR incident, which means an
awful lot of traditional jobs for people without qualifications are out. I've
had this said to my face in the UK, and I've had interviewers in the UK
visibly disappointed when they saw me.

~~~
csomar
> There's a very complicated system

Navigate that system. People with much lower IQ are relying on it, you should
be able to do that too.

> I'm trans, which means companies (even big ones) will not put me in a
> position where customers might possibly see me,

Same if you were homeless. I wouldn't hire a homeless barista that will turn
off customers.

> I've had interviewers in the UK visibly disappointed when they saw me

Find places that are gay-trans friendly. Even where I live such jobs exist and
are valued (ie: a woman hair dresser will prefer hiring a trans-gay as
straight guys might put off customers, etc...)

~~~
vertex-four
> Same if you were homeless. I wouldn't hire a homeless barista that will turn
> off customers.

To be clear, I currently have a shower, mattress, access to a washing machine,
etc etc. Living in squats is pretty ok, police repression aside. I don't look
like... whatever you're guessing, and nobody I'm applying to knows I don't
have a permanent legal residence.

Hairdressing is a ridiculously qualified job in the UK, I have no idea what
you're talking about. People go to vocational school to learn it.

~~~
csomar
> Living in squats is pretty ok

I think I misunderstood that from your original post. Do you mean you are
squatting someone else property? If that's the case, I feel sorry for myself
spending all this time writing these responses...

~~~
mustacheemperor
I hope sometime in the next week you have the time to evaluate this
conversation from an alternate perspective - even to just "cosplay" that
perspective, not to try and adapt it permanently - and understand why your
comments can come across as extremely out of touch.

>For example, become a hairdresser.

>I wouldn't hire you if you looked homeless...You don't look homeless because
you're showering as a squatter? I wish I hadn't given you any advice at all.

Empathy is not a constrained resources. It's one of the only things humans can
generate in infinite supply, and that's worth taking advantage of.

Also, it seems to me OP was not saying they can't get benefits in the UK
because the system is too complicated. They said the system was complicated
before summarizing the complexity by explaining that without work they will
lose benefits, and they are concerned they won't be able to find work. It
seems disingenuous to me to read into that as OP saying they can't figure out
how to get benefits.

~~~
csomar
> For example, become a hairdresser.

I didn't suggest that. I did suggest that he/she works for a hairdresser.
(probably doing errands around).

> I wouldn't hire you if you looked homeless

Not for a customer facing job. For some businesses, that would destroy the
business. That's why I suggest that he/she starts with jobs that do not care
too much about your current status.

> Empathy is not a constrained resources.

I have a hard time giving empathy to someone who doesn't have it. By squatting
other people property, you might be risking putting these people out of their
homes (maybe they are looking to rent it and are paying a mortgage/loan).

Not all properties are hold by rich people and closed to make people on the
streets. Some of these are by normal hardworking people and that's all they
have (or maybe less if they are borrowing money).

------
kempbellt
Oof... Sounds like a shit situation.

Honest advice:

Quit sitting around waiting for life to drop an opportunity in your lap!
Create opportunity for yourself! This post is a great start, but keep going.
Approach people _in real life_ with the same friendly and open-hearted
attitude, just like you've done here, and your situation will improve - and
fast.

Anyone who tries to judge your situation and condemn you for it can fuck right
off - ignore them.

Many hostels I've stayed in offer work-for-stay arrangements. Where you spend
a couple of hours during the day helping clean, making beds, etc, and they
give you a bunk to sleep in. This might help you network with some people -
make some friends, and get out of your current squatting situation.

One real conversation can change your entire life, if you are open to it

~~~
herenorthere
Honest question:

what did he say that you would presume he's been "sitting around waiting for
life to drop an opportunity in his lap?"

------
ansq
It sounds like you're trying a lot of out there ideas (volunteering at cafe,
open source donations, helping out at hackerspaces, etc).

My advice is to try to halt all of that and dedicate 100% energy towards
traditional ways of finding a job over the next month.

Out of curiosity, what about family?

------
goatherders
If you have an internet connection:

Either post on Craigslist or walk in to small business with the following
offers:

\- I will build you a website for (small sum) \- I will build your facebook
page for (small sum) \- I will setup your Twitter account for (small sum)

On and on and on until you can generate a few hundred dollars. The world is a
VASTLY different place when you have zero money versus when you have a little
money. A little money is a bed or a warm shower or a new set of clothes for a
job interview or a warm healthy meal or some advil for a headache.

Avoid trying to solve being homeless and not having a job and not knowing
about the future and and and......focus on solving the key challenge right in
front of you: lack of resources (money).

Good luck

~~~
pitt1980
what exactly is someone who pays a (small sum) for a setup Twitter account
expecting to receive?

~~~
goatherders
A functioning Twitter account and instructions on how to use it. Technologists
(you, me, others here) GREATLY overestimate the technical capability of the
other adults around us. If a small business does NOT have a Twitter account
then it's a safe bet that they either don't have company email or don't know
how to set it up. A well written profile, header and profile picture, and an
explanation of hashtags and how to post is worth $50 to $100 in a lot of
cases.

------
tbronchain
Lots of good answers here.

"All I want is to make enough money to survive" well, this may be what is
wrong with you.

You have programming skills? This is amazing. I understand you currently need
some help, but someone also most likely needs your skills.

It's a tough world, but most businesses will not care about your needs to make
money. They might even avoid you. However, they will beg for you skills if
they realize what you can bring them.

In other words, you may want to focus on learning how to sell yourself, help a
business to solve their problems and you will make money.

PS: I know a few people who made lots of cash on upwork with programming
skills without qualifications. Try looking for agencies looking for hands.

------
nojvek
I volunteer at shelters and have spoken to many homeless folks. It’s hard. I
feel you.

First you gotta have a place to live so you can focus on other things like
finding a job. To find a job you need an address and a bank account. To do a
job you have to be well groomed and presentable. You need to get good sleep
and be in a decent headspace so you can provide a service to your employer
that they’ll pay you for.

Their isn’t much I can do. I just quit my job to go solo so I don’t have a
stream of income.

That being said, I am more than happy to donate $100 to help you out to get
your wheels moving to the next step.

We software engineers (at-least in the US) are fortunate to make plenty of
dough.

------
someonekjl
find a döner kebap restaurant which run by turkish people. probably they will
help you out, find a job for you to enough to get fed. think about something
you can provide. thats all they mostly have soft hearts cannot leave people
die.

~~~
askGor
BS.

------
xtiansimon
For what it’s worth— I moved here in the US from CA to NY. I spent months in a
shelter and living in my car before I found an SRO above a bar. But I still
needed gas money, food, etc. At the first shelter I found everybody was either
disabled or working at a day labor company. (You’re in NL, so this isn’t any
good for you, but maybe the reference will give you an idea [1]).

[1]: [https://www.peopleready.com/home](https://www.peopleready.com/home)

------
rijoja
Since there is no PM on HN and I don't want to make my e-mail address to
spambots please contact me via my projects contact form and I'll get back to
you to see if I can give you a hand:

tbf-rnd.life/contact/

~~~
sah2ed
The OP posted their email:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22443438](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22443438)

------
perceptronas
Drop your CV here, somebody might call you

------
adamsea
Hello sir. Good luck. In addition to all the other good advice, if there is
someone you know and respect, and who has a stable living situation overall, I
would strongly encourage reaching out to them and ask for help and meeting
with them regularly, both for the advice that they can give, with their more
intimate knowledge of you than those of us online, and for the encouragement
and motivation that comes from feeling like you have someone in your corner.
It's one day at a time.

------
c22
You said you had connections with some hackerspaces. When I did a brief stint
of homelessness I was able to lean on my local hackerspace to take showers and
receive mail (a fixed address is extremely helpful when job hunting). If you
go this route don't get too comfortable and start spending all your time
there/sleeping there or you will attract negative attention.

------
the_gastropod
1\. Hang in there. Take care of yourself by being kind to yourself as best you
can

2\. Keep applying to jobs. Don't give up on that. Something will work out.

3\. In the interim, have you considered doing some freelance work via Upwork
or something similar? The pay will likely not be great, but it'll be a hell of
a lot more than 10 Euros / week, and can grow as you build a client-base.

------
ackshually
Is there an advice organisation similar to the UK's citizen's advice
organisation? I imagine that since the cost of living is so high in the
netherlands what you're experiencing must not be an unheard of problem. maybe
find the mayor's office (or regional equivalent) and politely ask for advice
on where to get help?

Good luck, hope everythig works out.

------
bwi4
> I don't know what's wrong with me.

There is nothing wrong with YOU. In a bad situation, it's easy to think that
you must be a villain or a victim, but you are a hero/ine and you can overcome
these challenges.

Connect with social services, they exist to help. Being in a stable and safe
situation is going to free up that mental bandwidth to focus on next steps.

------
akeck
This reminds me of:

[https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wkuDgmpxwbu2M2k3w/you-
have-a...](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wkuDgmpxwbu2M2k3w/you-have-a-set-
amount-of-weirdness-points-spend-them-wisely)

in that when one is homeless, most of the budget is already spent, so managing
them is critical to success.

------
zadkey
There are Freelance websites where you can work on small coding projects for
money.

Use those get some immediate money and start building up confidence and
accomplishments that you can use on your resume/cv.

After doing that for a while apply for a full-time role with your updated
resume showing multiple successful small projects from freelance roles.

------
badlogin78
Your biggest problem is not your lack of experience or lack of an address.
Your biggest problem is that you are trying to get a job from a position of
complete exhaustion (physical, mental and economical).

If your country has social services get in touch with them, they can give you
shelter, food, an some job to get you back on track.

You deserve better.

------
gnusci
Come back to the ground. It is easier if you take some steps to evolve. Find a
job in a bar, spa, shop, cleaning, or so. Those jobs do not require a CV or
ref letter. Then, you may get enough money to pay a room or basement. Once you
are self sufficient, work hard to get further in you plan.

------
psawaya
You should post something about what your strongest skills are (programming
languages, technologies, etc) as well as your email address. Maybe edit your
original post so they're easier to find. You're on the front page of HN: there
are a lot of folks here who could help you find work.

------
paublyrne
Do you have family you could stay with for a little while? It sounds like you
need some stability where you're living as a platform to look for some
employment.

Even not immediate family. I know that I would take in a cousin that needed
help for a while Even if asking is really hard.

------
lnanek2
It sounds like you are still looking for a tech job? What about day labor,
retail, fast food restaurants, etc.. Yeah it sucks, but you just need enough
to afford a cheap studio with 6 other guys crammed into it like grad students
often do to get by...

------
londons_explore
Anyone is welcome to use my address for receiving official documents. Just
email me to let me know, and I'll send you photos of anything that arrives
with your name on.

------
am_lu
couple of my hacker mates living in the squats works in simple manual jobs,
warehouse or street cleaning. zero contract and agency but gives them around
£1k a month on minimum wage, well enough to survive. Facebook is good for
finding freelance jobs, join a local group and there you find posts about
folks looking for someone to do something for them.

------
tus88
Become a webdev. Current or recent homelessness is a job requirement.

------
Apofis
Church and ANY JOB POSSIBLE ASAP, like others have pointed out.

------
blackpegasus
Have you tried going to a farm and helping there.

------
tigerlily
Which city are you currently in?

~~~
vertex-four
Rotterdam.

~~~
chinathrow
Do you speak dutch? The salvation army might be able to support you in getting
you off the street first, help feed you etc. Their website is dutch only
though. They have a local chapter in Rotterdam.

[https://www.legerdesheils.nl/](https://www.legerdesheils.nl/)

[https://www.legerdesheils.nl/mcr](https://www.legerdesheils.nl/mcr)

------
richvt1475
Don't give up.

------
copperfitting1
pls explain more.

------
nanna
There must be someone here who can find vertex-four a job?

------
dominotw
>. I'm going to be dead in a few months if I can't work something out.

why would you be dead? Can't tell if this is a troll post.

~~~
DoreenMichele
He has ten Euros a week in donations. If he can't come up with solutions and
find more resources, there's nothing crazy about predicting "The path I'm on
could actually end in my death in the not too distant future."

Is everyone on HN this oblivious to that fact? Do most well-heeled people just
find it impossible to recognize that "I have no money currently and no means
to reliably make money and it's been a persistent problem that isn't
resolving." is, in actual fact, a life-threatening situation and this isn't
hyperbole?

Because, wow, if most rich people are that amazingly obtuse, that might go a
long ways towards explaining the horrifyingly callous treatment I've been
subjected to over the years.

~~~
dominotw
people are dying of starvation in Netherlands?

~~~
DoreenMichele
In the US, homeless people have a much lower life expectancy than housed
people and other categories of poor people also generally have lower life
expectancies. You don't have to be pronounced dead from literal starvation for
poverty to kill you.

I guess that's a "yes, well-heeled people really are completely oblivious to
what actual poverty means."

Which would explain an awful lot of super shitty policies in the world.

~~~
dominotw
you are really reaching here, Lower life expectancy doesn't mean "dead in a
few months". Are you really saying poor ppl in Netherlands have a life
expectancy of few months?

Also, lol at all your other irrelevant points, I grew up in one of the poorest
parts of Africa. _You_ clearly have no idea what poverty means. Funny how ppl
who lived all their lives in a first world country think they know what
poverty is.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm saying homeless people can die on the street in fairly short time frames
and being concerned that such circumstances are a genuine threat to survival
isn't just someone being completely histrionic or deluded.

~~~
dominotw
Yes I agree with you. I shouldnt have been cynical/dismissive in my original
comment.

------
fredgrott
Nothing is wrong with you. First fix your self esteem, stop beating yourself
up.

So now since temp agencies are not hiring. Go gangster. Look at the nearest
biz getting customer complaints. If you can stop the customer complaints than
talk to the owner and sell him or her on hiring you even if its few hours a
week. Should work as they have an immediate pain problem they want to go away.

I hope it helps and please talk to more people and ask for help.

