
Everything that can go wrong with Windows Phone 7 update does - solipsist
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/everything-that-can-go-wrong-with-windows-phone-7-update-does.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
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zmmmmm
A little unfair. A lot more could be going wrong (it could be bricking every
phone, for example). And to be honest, while the article seems to think the
first update should be the least likely to have a problem, for me the first
update is where I _will_ cut them some slack - this is a massive distributed
update process that has never been tried before in the wild. Any of us real
developers know that it's incredibly hard to actually test a process like this
completely....

~~~
kaze1
Am an embedded systems developer, and have dealt with similar updates before.
I think the author is fair in expecting proper testing since there weren't too
many variations to handle. Firmware upgrades aren't too complex, especially
when you have h/w spec lock-downs. You just need to build in the right safe
guards, and build a culture of thorough testing. This looks like a typical
bureaucratically executed project with time+cost deadlines to meet, and
narrow-minded bosses to please.

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kenjackson
What this article points out is that MS has the toughest phone update process
in the industry. And for all the whining people do with Android, they may have
surprisingly got it right. Let me explain.

Apple's process is pretty easy. They own the phone, firmware, software, etc...
It's easy for them to test and roll out. Everyone knows this.

Now Android went with a completely different approach. We give you the OS, now
you own everything else. The OEMs have to ensure that any update works on
their phone. This is great for Android for two reasons: (1) The OEMs
COMPLETELY own testing each new build of Android. Google doesn't have to think
about Gingerbread, except for systemic issues. And (2) if there are issues on
a given phone, it's not Google's fault -- it's the OEMs.

MS is in a rather horrible position of delivering the OS directly to the
phones thus having to test them as they are responsible for failure.

One big problem that comes up here is imagine you have one phone where the
update just doesn't seem to work. Are you going to hold up all of the other
phones just to get that one phone working?

If MS pulls this off, kudos to them. But I don't envy them. With that said,
they pulled it off in the PC market, but that market built itself around MS-
DOS, rather than MS-DOS coming out the gate with support for multiple
manufacturers.

~~~
podperson
The only thing I would quibble with is: "This is great for Android". I think
you mean "this is great for Google" or even "this makes it much easier for
Google".

Assuming "great for Android" means "makes Android a better and more popular
platform" -- I think that it will simply lead (indeed, has led) to horrendous
fragmentation.

~~~
kenjackson
Yes, great for Google would be more accurate.

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endeavour
I have an Omnia 7 and (to my relief) the update installed without a hitch. So
it's not affecting all handsets.

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brianwillis
Any HN readers experiencing these problems first hand?

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danpker
Update went fine on an unbranded HTC Trophy for me, although having to deal
with the Zune software is a minus.

~~~
ttrashh
Really? To me the Zune software is about 8 steps beyond iTunes.

The UI is great, lots of nice touches, looks modern, it's fast. I can drag
music and such to my phone even if I'm using someone else's Zune software.

~~~
contextfree
I find both of their UIs arbitrary and confusing, but at least Zune is
prettier, I guess.

~~~
endtime
Is there any such thing as a non-arbitrary UI?

~~~
contextfree
Fair point. I guess arbitrariness is like intuitiveness - it describes an
individual's experience more than any objective characteristic of the
software.

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soofaloofa
I don't see this as the game changer the author makes it out to be. Remember
that Microsoft is in this for the long haul.

The Xbox was plagued with problems in the early years but MS stuck with it;
now it's one of their most profitable divisions.

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larsberg
On an LG (on AT&T) and the update is not available.

~~~
mechanical_fish
Contrary to popular belief, sometimes a delay in releasing updates really _is_
a feature.

The article is hilarious on this point. "This just in! OS update kills phones,
curdles milk, terrifies children! Also, users might be angry that they're not
getting it right away!"

By the way, I shouldn't need to say this, but the plural of a terrifying
anecdote is not data. Every upgrade ever pushed breaks _something_ for
_someone_ , and the noise from one failure sounds louder than ten thousand
successes. We'll see if this dire emergency still looks as bad three days from
now when more reports are in.

~~~
narkee
> I shouldn't need to say this, but the plural of a terrifying anecdote is not
> data

I hear this repeated a lot, and I think people parrot it without really
understanding what they say. I'm not saying that this particular article is
presenting properly sampled data, but in reality, a lot of social sciences
collect their data by sampling a population and pulling together a plurality
of "anecdotes".

That's basically the definition of data. An anecdote _is_ data. Whether or not
it's statistically significant depends on the plurality, and sampling
procedures, but to call it not "data" is quite unwarranted.

If you believe in western medical science, then you had better believe in
anecdotes as data, because to this very day, medical journals report single
case studies as data and evidence for dissemination across the medical
community.

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Pooter
Just wow. Fire the entire mobile division and get out of the market; you're
cursed and/or hopelessly incapable of executing properly on anything in the
space.

~~~
Pooter
Thanks for having the courage to disagree through mods rather than comments.

And thanks again for the continued cowardice.

~~~
daeken
What is there to disagree with? There's effectively no content to your
comment. "Fire them all" is not a solution to _any_ technical problem.

~~~
Pooter
Actually, my solution was to fire the whole division AND get out of the
market.

And this isn't a technical problem; it's a process and culture problem. MS
almost certainly has the technical and financial resources to have prevented
this. The fact that they didn't points to an utterly dysfunctional company.
Getting out of a market that they're rather obviously too hidebound or screwed
up to compete in, is definitely a solution.

~~~
bmelton
Yeah, like they got out of the game console market when they were getting red
rings of death. Or that time Windows ME was complete and utter crap, and they
completely got out of the operating system market. Or that time they did
something else wrong, and instead of firing everybody and getting out of the
market, they learned from their mistake, came back, and fared very well or
perhaps dominated it.

Microsoft, for all their power and ability, are not remotely above mistakes.
They also do a pretty decent job of learning from them. I don't know of a home
that doesn't have an Xbox 360 in it, or a home that doesn't have some
installation of Windows in it.

Sure, it takes them awhile to hit their stride, but the worst thing anybody
can do is discount them as a strong competitor, in any market they're in.

~~~
neworbit
Cripes, really? Windows I'll give you, but Xbox isn't THAT popular.

~~~
shadowpwner
I don't know if you're trolling, but Xboxes are one of the top selling
consoles. See
[http://www.kokeytechnology.com/gadgets/xbox-360/xbox-360-vs-...](http://www.kokeytechnology.com/gadgets/xbox-360/xbox-360-vs-
playstation-3-ps3-sales-xbox-360-wins/) for a random example.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
Not necessarily disputing your point but those figures are for 2008.

Current sales figures are roughly 50m worldwide sales for the 360, 48m
worldwide for the PS3 (having been available for a year less), 85m sales for
the Wii. For reference worldwide sales for the PS2 are currently 150m (and
still selling).

All figures for Dec 2010 / Jan 2011. Worth noting that if those figures don't
tally with what you see around you, the Xbox360 is way bigger than the PS3 in
the USA (18m to 10m I think), the PS3 either equals or beats it in all other
markets (notably Japan and Europe).

So yes it's "one of the top selling consoles" and 50m units isn't exactly
chopped liver, but it's pretty much third equal in the market. Also worth
noting that the whole Xbox division has lost massive amounts over all time
(though it's now profitable, it's never recouped the original investment).

But I would agree with the point that while they take time to hit their
stride, they do get there and I think Kinnect is a good example of the fact
that they're now executing pretty well in this space and indeed innovating
which isn't usually a word you'd associate with Microsoft.

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Qz
Lest you thought they had changed their ways.

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ianhawes
Ars Technica cannot be taken seriously when it comes to Microsoft. It's like
FOX News reporting on Obama.

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axian
Count your blessings if it only bricked a handful of phones and forced users
to fiddle with their devices to get them working again. At least it didn't
install Windows Phone 7 Genuine Advantage.

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mkenyon
Something tells me that the author doesn't really know what he's talking
about.

> And because every phone is running the same software, well, it should all
> just work, shouldn't it?

As we all know, an operating system is simply software. It doesn't interact
with hardware and, if it did, the hardware is all completely identical, right?
There's absolutely no difference between any of the WP7 phones on the market.

> The company was non-specific about the purpose of the update; it's not the
> copy-and-paste update that will be shipped next month, but rather an update
> to somehow improve the update process.

It's a test update, one whose sole purpose is to help Microsoft work with the
carriers to figure out how to roll out updates. It's not like remotely
updating hardware is a trivial problem. It's better to have a test update fail
than a functional update fail.

~~~
bad_user

          An operating system is simply software. It doesn't 
          interact with hardware and, if it did,  the hardware 
          is all completely identical, right? 
    

No offence, but that's the stupidest remark I've ever read.

And btw, hardware is almost never completely identical. Take 2 pieces of
hardware built after the same spec by the same factory, and under certain
conditions you may find them exhibiting different behavior. Hardware is not as
predictable as software. It's the job of the operating system / drivers to
make hardware predictable.

~~~
pohl
_No offence, but that's the stupidest remark I've ever read._

Pro tip: that's one of the key indicators of sarcasm.

~~~
bad_user
If it is sarcasm, then sorry.

It's still winter, there's a blizzard outside and my sarcasm detector is
malfunctioning. I wish for spring to come, but it will take another 20 days
according to the latest forecasts :(

