
My Day Interviewing for the Service Economy Startup from Hell - TarpitCarnivore
http://thebillfold.com/2014/10/my-day-interviewing-for-the-service-economy-startup-from-hell/
======
joshstrange
Sexism, racism, homophobia (I assume that's what was going on with the
marketing guys and "Josh"), long hours, low pay, "boys club",
overbearing/micromanaging boss, unpaid full day "interview", false hope
(Seemed like the idea of getting your own franchise was a carrot dangled
before them on a stick that they would never get), and little/no structure.
Wow.... And these are the companies that are getting funded?

~~~
potatolicious
I work in startups in NYC. None of the things described are even remotely
close to shocking for me - I've seen all of the above first-hand either in
offices or at startup events.

That said, I've never seen _all_ those things under the same roof, much less
in a single day. The perfect storm of insanity makes me doubt the author's
story a little bit, but each of the things she's brought up I've seen.

Shit, I literally just read a racist internal email an hour ago about the new
cleaning lady at the office.

Plus the pointless credential-rundown you get every. single. goddamn. time.
you meet a startup person in this city. Oh, you went to Harvard 10 years ago?
That's so relevant considering we just met 2 minutes ago! You used to work at
Goldman and now you're doing a consumer-tech startup? Yeah, that really needed
to be in the first 3 sentences you've ever spoken to me.

~~~
bane
I was on a team trying to setup a spinout company in Australia of all places.
My corporate overlords built a team, boy band style, to go investigate the
market with a minimum product, really experienced people who had seen and done
a lot. About half the team was on their second career after retiring out of
their first, but all were brilliant. I think we added it up and there was
something like 170 years of experience in my small group (I was by far the
junior person on the team).

During the sit down on the marketing meeting a new person was introduced to
the team (not unusual). They came up to the group and was obviously another
senior, experienced addition to the group, hopefully with a long and
interesting career behind them.

They walked up to the front of the group and introduced themselves, "Hi I'm
<name>, I went to Yale" and sat down at the table and proceeded to offer
nothing of any substance over the next 8 weeks until they were quietly asked
to go "contribute" their Yale credentials somewhere else.

I've been hit with every kind of credential wagging since then, "When I was at
McKinsey..."* or "When I went to Harvard..."\+ are usually immediate signs of
an immensely useless person and I go out of my way to avoid them. It's
actually kind of pathetic.

The best people I've ever met actually seemed a bit shy about notable
credentials in their past and it wasn't until after months of probing that I
could finally learn about some cool job or notable place they went to school.

* I wrote this before reading the article

\+ seriously, it's like a cliche

~~~
mhoad
As an interesting side anecdote, I just spent the last 6 months living in
Kenya with the same kind of Harvard / McKinsey style crowd except in the
social enterprise / NGO space.

As someone who was coming from a very different background to a lot of these
people, I wasn't exactly sure what to expect.

While I would be the first to admit that things are less than perfect in a
number of ways, generally speaking the people I met and eventually ended up
consulting for couldn't possibly be much further from some of the
personalities described in a number of the comments here.

Overall I was super impressed with the humility, the intelligence and the
general standard that I saw in a lot of these people.

Then again, there is a world of difference between someone who chooses to live
on next to nothing in a 3rd world country where they are there primarily to
help others and the types described in the article.

~~~
bane
Thanks for the counter-anecdote. I've met so many people who start the
conversation off with a credential drop and then turn out to be useless oxygen
thieves that I forget that there really are some smart dedicated people out
there with the same kinds of top-tier credentials as attributes who do good
work.

 _bad Bane, stereotyping is bad!_

~~~
kaybe
As I understood it, it's not the credentials per se you have the problem with,
it's the way people bring them up. You two might be talking about different
kinds of people.

------
tptacek
The experience of this CSR candidate is obviously the lede of the piece, but
my problem with businesses like this is deeper: I think all these companies
that put a pretty UI over a bunch of low-skill 1099 workers are exploitative.

Reread the section about Lupe's attempt to reach the client in time.

I feel like companies in these markets will eventually reap the whirlwind when
the USG decides not to allow people filling these roles to be classified as
1099s, and the whole segment falls apart. Or maybe I just hope it.

~~~
jordanb
Piketty observes that the rise of the monthly wage was essential to the rise
of what he calls the "patrimonial middle class". It gave labor a degree of
income stability that they did not enjoy under the previous system of daily
wages and piecework.

These startups are essentially converting monthly wage jobs back into
piecework jobs. Not satisfied with rolling back the new deal, we're now
rolling back the progressive era.

~~~
prostoalex
> essentially converting monthly wage jobs back into piecework jobs

People who work these jobs never had a monthly wage job to begin with. If
you're fully employed as a house-cleaner, why bother with Handy? If you're a
full-time black car driver, why even bother with Uber?

This is lead-gen business for industries that tend to have a large amount of
self-employed individuals to begin with.

------
terramars
Full work day interviews where you do actual work for the company are
technically illegal. If you want to mess with them, you can file a suit in
small claims court for whatever hourly rate you feel like, and it'll be a huge
pain in the ass unless they settle and pay you quickly :)

~~~
lquist
It's also illegal to require employees to use their own devices and not
compensate them for that use.

~~~
codezero
Is that actually illegal? I think it's really crappy, and no company should do
it, but I'd love to see where this is codified as illegal.

~~~
jfim
California passed a law about that I believe. An excerpt from this [1]:

Section 2802 of the California Labor Code requires employers to reimburse
employees for expenses “necessarily incurred” with the stated purpose of
“prevent[ing] employers from passing their operating expenses on to their
employees.” Lest anyone think this issue can be resolved with a waiver of the
right to reimbursement, Labor Code section 2804 prohibits waivers of an
employee’s rights to reimbursement.

[1]
[http://www.dlapiper.com/en/us/insights/publications/2014/08/...](http://www.dlapiper.com/en/us/insights/publications/2014/08/bring-
your-own-device/)

~~~
codezero
Awesome, thanks!

------
eastbayjake
I don't know why she changed the founder's name, it's pretty easy to figure
out when there are only two founders.[1] It looks like Umang Dua, HBS '13[2].
He's on Twitter as @umangdua if anyone would like to ask him about this
incident.

[1] [https://www.handy.com/about](https://www.handy.com/about) [2]
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/umangdua](https://www.linkedin.com/in/umangdua)
[3] [https://twitter.com/umangdua](https://twitter.com/umangdua)

~~~
fuzzywalrus
Honestly, I thought it took a lot of gall to even name the startup by name.
There's always a fear of retribution even minor.

~~~
steve-benjamins
Naming the startup gave this article extra teeth for me.

------
swang
They've responded on Twitter. They don't really mention what they're talking
about so you won't understand unless you've read the story. I guess to
purposely not connect others to the story

> This is disturbing and in no way represents working at Handy. Companies go
> through growing pains and these facts have no bearing on us today

> When Amanda says she applied 1.5 yrs ago, our company was newer, smaller and
> still figuring out best practices. Things have changed since.

> We do not stand for racism or sexism of any kind. That kind of behavior is
> not tolerated and never will be.

> We understand that our employees and professionals are the lifeblood of our
> business and we work every day to ensure their happiness.

They don't seem to deny what Amanda is saying. And I don't see how they can
say they've changed if some of those same people still remain...

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
> This is disturbing and in no way represents working at Handy. Companies go
> through growing pains and these facts have no bearing on us today

I take issue with this statement the most. The author clearly identifies the
CEO, whom is still there, was present when the comments and inappropriate
jokes were being made. It's entirely possible the CEO did say something, but
I'm guessing based on the tone of the article they did not.

While it's natural for a company to go through growing pains I've never heard
it used in reference to office culture how customers are treated. If this was
going on 18 months ago it means it's still there today.

~~~
MBCook
I saw that as nothing but an admission of guilt. I wonder if the tweet will
stay up. I bet their corporate lawyer won't be happy when they see it.

------
incision
I must be old...

I feel like I read stories about horrible jobs and tough times finding work
from young college grads regularly and the news would seem to corroborate them
[1].

Apparently, these people end up serving coffee or answering phones for clown
shop start-ups.

Meanwhile, I know people trying to hire for what I'd consider traditional
entry level jobs (clerks, reception, no-risk security, no-experience necessary
apprenticeships) offering full benefits plus 35-45k+ salaries who would be
overjoyed to see a single college-educated applicant.

What's going on here? Do people believe in this Amway-esque pitch for a "world
of opportunities"? Do traditional jobs feel like giving up? Are they too
restricting?

1: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-
people/wp/2014/0...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-
people/wp/2014/09/05/why-sally-cant-get-a-good-job-with-her-college-degree/)

~~~
Glyptodon
The jobs you mention don't exist. Unless you count prison guards. I know
someone who double majored with good grades and is now a corrections officer
working with mostly non-college graduates because the only other job
opportunities were things like 7-11 cashier.

Also, I know people see a lot of "openings" for "decent" positions, but most
of them seem to be fake spam positions from companies that don't really want
to hire people considering that every person I know who has ever applied for
one has never heard anything back, except for a couple people who've had it
explained to them that an opening wasn't for college graduates.

~~~
zaroth
> The jobs you mention don't exist

But doesn't it sound like it would be a supremely profitable relationship if
such a job _did exist_?

------
jonknee
Where are all the attorneys? This is a company with flagrantly illegal
practices and a ton of money in the bank. People live for that sort of
scenario. Anyone let go by these clowns should leave with a nice chunk of
change.

~~~
dccoolgai
We've spent the last 30-odd years electing people that stuff the books and
court benches with laws and people that make sure that - by and large -
attorneys and the victims they represent _can 't_ hold companies like this
responsible or accountable - for almost anything, let alone misdeeds with
needy victims. Go look up "forced arbitration"... these "service providers"
probably have, at best, the right to a loser-pays "arbitrator" who is paid and
picked by Handybook. The risk that any of them might opt for any quasi-legal
proceeding (let alone the rigged arbitration system they are likely limited
to) given that many of them most likely have some kind of liminal citizenship
status is effectively nil. If I were doing the liabilities/risk business
analysis for this, I would delete the row this was on just to clean up the
spreadsheet a little bit.

The concept of companies being held responsible for things they do that hurt
or exploit people is a humorous anachronism from a bygone era.

~~~
danielweber
It doesn't look like the "candidate/employee" signed anything. And if they
did, the contract isn't enforceable without consideration. "We are considering
you for the job" is not consideration.

~~~
jordanb
The way companies do forced arbitration now is by providing the employee with
an opt out form that they have to fill out and mail to the legal department
within 30 days.

Sharp-eyed employees will notice this in their new hire documentation but most
will not. The company can then claim that they did not make forced arbitration
a condition of employment and did give the employee an opportunity to opt out,
which they declined to take. Courts have upheld this as legal:

[http://www.dglaw.com/images_user/newsalerts/Litigation_Emplo...](http://www.dglaw.com/images_user/newsalerts/Litigation_Employees_Who_Dont_Opt_Out.pdf)

~~~
danielweber
They never hired her. There was no on-going agreement or failure to opt-out.

Again, contracts still need consideration. Employment is consideration. They
never employed her.

~~~
rdl
I don't get why the fuck they didn't just pay her a day rate for work, since
she was essentially working.

------
song
Sometimes I wonder if it would make sense for investors to send someone they
trust to apply and interview for a position at a company they're considering.

If what she wrote is accurate I don't really understand how they managed to
raise $30 million in funding.

~~~
arenaninja
> If what she wrote is accurate I don't really understand how they managed to
> raise $30 million in funding.

Probably covered by the part where the founder was at Harvard

~~~
danielweber
It's not unusual at all to find very smart people that just lack the very
basic common sense.

------
devanti
No surprise here. The first thing a Harvard grad will tell you is that they
graduated from Harvard.

~~~
gone35
Interesting. Informally (anecdotally), I think the norm is quite the opposite:
_noblesse obliges_ to never drop the H-bomb in conversation --whence the
irksome "went to school near Boston" trope [1,2].

It could well be a HBS-only thing, though. They have their own thing going on.

[1] [http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/9/15/harvard-
students...](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/9/15/harvard-students-go-
people/)

[2]
[http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/05/30/harvard_grads...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/05/30/harvard_grads_say_i_went_to_college_in_boston_and_call_it_the_h_bomb_get.html)

~~~
waterlesscloud
In my anecdotal experience, I only find out people I meet went to Harvard when
I see them in a school sweatshirt. Or if they write for The Simpsons, in which
case I just assume it. Heh.

Wharton grads, on the other hand... Never more than 10 minutes before they
drop it in.

------
joezydeco
Still wishing fuckedcompany.com was still around to start collecting stories
like this as the bubble starts to pop...

~~~
RockyMcNuts
Soon there will be an app for that, probably called Unter (Uber for going
under).

------
comrh
"It will be a full day of work, like an extended interview, and unpaid."

Screw that noise. It is clear from just that they don't respect people's time.

~~~
nhoven
I'm pretty certain this is illegal and a violation of the Fair Labor Standard
act. [http://www.dol.gov/whd/flsa/](http://www.dol.gov/whd/flsa/)

~~~
CapitalistCartr
When I interview, I mention that I have to give my present employer 2 weeks
notice, whether it's true or not. Then I carefully watch their reaction.
Anything other than supportive is a deal-breaker. Either they have integrity
or they don't.

~~~
YuriNiyazov
Could you clarify? I'm confused by what difference does it make what they say.

~~~
lostcolony
"Of course" \- no red flags.

"WHAT?! We expected you to start tomorrow! Can't you just quit? Don't you want
to work here?!" \- Aaaaand, we're done here.

~~~
YuriNiyazov
I have interviewed a lot, and I have literally _never_ experienced anything
other than some variation of "of course".

------
S4M
I thought this article was written about a fictitious company as a satire, but
after couple of search it turns out that Handy actually exists and has raised
quite a lot - as a competitor of HomeJoy?

I don't know if everything there is true, but this article has the indirect
effect of making my opinion of michaelochurch going up.

~~~
atomical
Why?

------
king_jester
I'm not surprised that a company that would treat its service providers so
shitty would also treat its employees that way. Between stories like this and
the things I hear about other service startups like Task Rabbit it makes me
never want to use one of these services ever.

------
talltofu
Wow! It's good to hear stories like this to balance out the usually euphoric
stories around startups. Hopefully this an aberration, not the norm

~~~
forgottenpass
_Hopefully this an aberration, not the norm_

Startups that hire unskilled labor are only pulling back the curtain on the
actual job market. If anything you can expect to hear more about it as the
tech startup world starts building things that require more staff than an
engineering department.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
I worked unskilled labor in NYC before and during college (and a short time
after). I've seen attempts to scam jobseekers, I've been sexually harassed
(I'm male) and I've worked for assholes but I have _never_ seen a legitimate
employer that was even remotely this bad.

------
arenaninja
This is pretty bad. I'm debating whether it tops the job where I got fired for
speaking Spanish, but it's bad nonetheless

~~~
Igglyboo
Woah really? Sounds interesting, care to share the story?

~~~
psykovsky
Once I was "demoted" for having a bad relationship with my father because
someone talked about it with the store manager...

------
waylandsmithers
> The next step in the process is a tryout day. It will be a full day of work,
> like an extended interview, and unpaid. Could you come in tomorrow?

I liked this until the unpaid part. Maybe there are just too many impossible
laws and logistics to get around, but I've always thought it would be cool if
more companies tried something out like a 10-day contract (paid of course) to
make sure the job is a good fit, and so both parties can make an initial
decision without as much risk.

~~~
dnissley
The reason this doesn't work is that most people aren't going to quit their
current job for something that isn't a definite offer of full time employment.
Would you?

~~~
ams6110
I've never had a salaried job that didn't start off with a "probationary"
period of 30 - 90 days. Not sure what the real difference is.

~~~
malyk
And I've never had one that had one...

------
drtse4
> "I started this company while I was getting my MBA at Harvard. Before this,
> I worked for McKinsey & Company…" he paused to gauge my reaction, “which is
> one of the top business consulting firms in the world.”

I wonder how he would have reacted to my utterly uninterested facial
expression. Nothing of that is of any interest when trying to asses his value
as a person or if his idea/company is good or not.

~~~
grecy
I enjoy being from Australia and listening to Americans yammer on about their
education or work history.

I honestly say "I've never heard of <institution>" \- the reactions are great
:)

------
DanielBMarkham
At the risk of saying something terribly unpopular, I've got about six more of
these in me, then I'm done.

Seriously. Let's get real. There are what? Say thirty thousand or so startups
in the U.S., with ten thousand joining and dropping out in any given year? So
if 1% were fuckups, we'd be able to run several of these stories a day.
Forever.

I think people like them because it feels good to see young jerks acting like,
well, young jerks. Don't we know so much more than them? Wonder how they feel,
now, those assholes! You can get the holier-than-thou feeling and you can riff
off the righteous indignation. Lots of folks just can't get enough righteous
indignation. Then you can sit around and share stories from the good old days.

The problem is, not only can you run these ad infinitum without actually doing
more than sharing a ton of anecdotes -- it doesn't lead to any sort of
productivity. It gives me nothing to go and accomplish, it offers no insights
into what public policy changes might be required to stop it (if it did, it'd
be politics, and we don't want to go there). It's just -- nothing. Like
driving by a fender bender and talking to the other people in the car about
what happened and who must be at fault. A waste of time.

I really wish there was something useful here. Best I've got is "People who
don't understand employment law are going to make lots of mistakes"

So I got that. I got that with the first of these.

Maybe we're seeing the start of a new genre, like FuckedCompany. If so,
perhaps there's a subreddit for it somewhere? After a few dozen of these, it
ain't going to be stuff hackers are interested in, unless they're some pretty
monotonous hackers.

------
discardorama
I'm no lawyer, but: by law, if you are _expected_ to work 12-hour days, isn't
the company supposed to pay you overtime? My understanding was that even if
you are an 'exempt' employee, if the _expectation_ is that you have to work
more than 40 hours/week, you should be paid overtime?

~~~
moron4hire
I know that to be the case in Pennsylvania and Virginia, as those are the
states I've lived in. I believe it to be the case in New York.

~~~
greenyoda
In the U.S., this is actually governed by a Federal law, the Fair Labor
Standards Act.

The U.S. Department of Labor has lots of information about it:

[http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/overtimepay.htm](http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/overtimepay.htm)

------
Mandatum
It sickens me how close that article/post is to my experience working for a
small business in Auckland, New Zealand.

------
_RPM
Highland Capital Partners is one of their investors. Prior investments by the
firm include [http://www.hcp.com/companies/](http://www.hcp.com/companies/)

------
Animats
Not only is this employer acting like an asshole, they're doing it stupidly.
They let candidates for employment bring in their own computer and plug it
into their internal network. Someone is going to drain out all their internal
records.

You can see their web site at
"[http://www.handy.com/"](http://www.handy.com/"). The page source is amusing.
They seem to be more interested in ad networks than booking actual business.

~~~
aaronem
> Someone is going to drain out all their internal records

What could they possibly have worth stealing?

~~~
Eiriksmal
That's easy--the answer to where all that $45,000,000 in venture capital
funding went!

------
notch90
yea, I had bad experiences there too. They are very bad with hiring contract.
Really treat employees like bad

------
Disruptive_Dave
Have a seemingly decent idea. Build a seemingly workable product. Know people
/ have a shiny thing on your resume.

Why the surprise at all this? Here in NYC I speak to funded startup founders
and employees every other day who lack basic business, business management,
and people management skills and experience. Investor actions (i.e. $$$$)
seriously devalue these things now.

(But we have advisors!!!!!!!)

/jadedrant

------
petercoolz
This reminds me of the all-too-true joke.

Question: How do you know somebody has an MBA? Answer: They tell you.

Full disclosure... I have an MBA!

------
arikrak
In general, startups do not follow the professional practices of established
companies. When you interview for an established company, they're usually
professional and they get back to you afterwards. When you interview for a
startup, you can run into all sorts of issues. The founder might not be there,
the employees may have no idea what to do with you, or you might just have a
15-minute interview after traveling for 90 minutes to get there. They often
won't get back to you. Though this example is particularly bad since they're
asking applicants to do unpaid labor.

~~~
darkhorse05
Are you kidding me. If this story was true, this startup was way beyond just
unprofessional.

------
7Figures2Commas
> “Congratulations! Ajay thinks you’d be a great fit. The next step in the
> process is a tryout day. It will be a full day of work, like an extended
> interview, and unpaid. Could you come in tomorrow?”

This may be a violation of wage and hour laws.

> “Great! You’ll need to bring your own laptop and smart phone. Will that be a
> problem for you?”

Many states forbid companies from requiring that their employees bear the
costs of business expenses. I wonder if employees at this company are being
reimbursed.

> “Okay, our Customer Experience Associates normally begin work at 8 a.m. and
> wrap up the day around 8 p.m. They work five days per week, plus one
> rotating weekend shift. Is that okay?” She looked at me warily.

It would be interesting to know if the company is treating "Customer
Experience Associates" as exempt or non-exempt employees. Customer service
roles are almost always non-exempt, and non-exempt employees are entitled to
overtime pay. Given that the author wrote she was offered a $35,000 salary and
made no mention of overtime pay, it sounds like there might be a
misclassification issue here. These misclassifications can be very, very
costly (unpaid overtime plus interest, numerous statutory penalties,
attorney's fees, etc.) so they're incredibly attractive to plaintiff's
attorneys.

> “Service provider” was a pleasant euphemism for Handybook’s fleet of
> freelance cleaners and handymen. After signing up with Handybook, service
> providers received text alerts about available jobs, which they could claim
> for themselves by texting back, on a first-come, first-serve basis.

> A programmer giggled and called out, “Ashley, do your Chinese washer woman
> impression again!” “My Chinese washa wo-men?” she pulled back the skin on
> the sides of her face. “I do you laund-wy! Own-wy ten dollah!” She laughed
> hysterically, “I clean you house!” The programmers sniggered loudly. “Ching
> chong!” someone yelled out and collapsed into laughter.

> “Want to hear a joke I heard today?” a programmer asked, eying me and
> giggling. “What’s the difference between a woman and a refrigerator?”
> “…what,” I said. “Refrigerators don’t moan when you put meat in them!”

This behavior is toxic to businesses that want to remain in business.

> “Service provider” was a pleasant euphemism for Handybook’s fleet of
> freelance cleaners and handymen. After signing up with Handybook, service
> providers received text alerts about available jobs, which they could claim
> for themselves by texting back, on a first-come, first-serve basis.

A lot of these "on demand" companies are built on classifying their service
providers as independent contractors. In many cases, however, independent
contractor classification is questionable. In this case specifically, the
description of how the company dealt with Lupe raises serious questions.

The more funding these companies receive, and the bigger they get, the more
attractive they're going to be to plaintiff's counsel. One of Handy's
competitors is already on the radar of a prominent Boston class action
attorney[1].

[1]
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/09/10/a...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/09/10/at-
the-uber-for-home-cleaning-workers-pay-a-price-for-convenience/)

~~~
danielweber
_In this case specifically, the description of how the company dealt with Lupe
raises serious questions._

Honest question: what is legally wrong with it? If people show up late, you
are allowed to remove them from your network. I don't see anything at
[http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-
Employ...](http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-
Employed/Independent-Contractor-Defined) that indicates paying attention to
the time when work is done disqualifies one from being a contractor.

~~~
greenyoda
Right on the page you cited, it says:

 _" You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be
controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done)."_

Enforcing specific working hours is definitely controlling how a job will be
done.

------
jdhawk
Sounds like the company is growing too quickly for them to implement things
like Human Resources & a new hire training program.

BYO Technology? that should be an OPTION, not a requirement...especially at
35K.

------
DanBC
> “Okay, our Customer Experience Associates normally begin work at 8 a.m. and
> wrap up the day around 8 p.m. They work five days per week, plus one
> rotating weekend shift. Is that okay?” She looked at me warily.

12 * 5 = 60 hours per week. That's illegal in the EU.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive)

[https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours](https://www.gov.uk/maximum-
weekly-working-hours)

------
Killah911
This is interesting:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V36Nn9UpBxk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V36Nn9UpBxk)

------
kaeawc
And now I'm never going to use Handybook again.

------
AndrewKemendo
These tales are infuriating.

------
danielweber
As much as things sometimes sucked during my recent job hunt, holy cow, this
is over-the-top awful. The worst of my experiences were exceeded within three
paragraphs.

I did have to deal with one company that said they had trouble "finding senior
people" when the whole office was a playground. But no one told me any sexist
or racist jokes.

------
mathrawka
Here's a video on Handy's hiring strategy:
[https://www.33voices.com/authors/umang-dua/media/handys-
hiri...](https://www.33voices.com/authors/umang-dua/media/handys-hiring-
strategies)

------
redwood
Sounds terrible but I have to point out that I don't like the way she
described Ajay as an "Indian guy".

I don't know why it rubbed me the wrong way

~~~
general_failure
Yeah,same here. Nobody says "american guy". So she definitely wanted to get
that fact through.

~~~
austinhutch
She says the marketing team was filled with a bunch of "white guys". I don't
see what the issue is.

~~~
general_failure
Indeed :)

------
codezero
This is probably hard for most engineers to relate to, unless part of your
role is doing support.

edit: when I say something is not insane or unexpected, I mean it in the
context of a person looking for work in customer support. These are the things
you run in to. So if you are shocked that they have to provide their own
hardware, then you are shocked at the way support people are often actually
treated. I'm not advocating for or supporting that.

The interview process and criteria for being hired have really high variance
compared to engineering interviews.

The author of this piece made the classic, and often unavoidable mistake of
being between a rock and a hard place and not vetting the company she
interviewed at and ultimately worked for for a day.

Even if you're not an engineer/designer/data scientist (or one of the
typically highly desired people for a startup), you should be working at
places you love and believe in, when you're not, you end up having bad
experiences and those bad experiences are amplified by the environment.

First, I didn't find Ajay's interview to be that weird, saying why you came up
with the idea for your company and your qualifications should be expected, not
interpreted as a way for the founder to diminish the potential future
employee. If you don't believe in your leaders, and don't trust them, you are
in a lot of trouble.

edit: I think that not having interviewed with the actual support team members
is a huge red flag here as well, but owing to the author's somewhat desperate
situation, they moved forward anyways.

12 hour days is insane, and wrong. Having to provide your own device is not
really that insane for small teams. Obviously it's great if a company provides
it, and probably larger companies should always provide a workstation, but
this doesn't come across as totally abnormal. The constant "want to hear a
joke" and racist/sexist tone at the company is also not acceptable, but
clearly was supported by the people working there at the time, if the anecdote
is taken at face value.

It's super easy to pay for a trial period, and as far as I'm aware, it's not
even legal to have people work for free unless you are a nonprofit or
government organization, so that's shady, even if only for one day. I've done
two week trials that were fully paid, and it was a great way to get a feel for
the company and vice versa.

Not having any onboarding, given that the trial was for a day isn't too
surprising, but that is clearly a problem with a one day trial. They should
have absolutely been given some lead-in material to help them get prepped
before starting.

There appear to be a lot of growing pains at Handy, which isn't a surprise,
but hopefully they can move fast and get their support/service wing to be as
tight and focused as the rest of their team (assuming that is true).

~~~
potatolicious
> _" Having to provide your own device is not really that insane for small
> teams."_

Not that unusual to garage or ramen-stage companies sure, but these are guys
with an office in one of the hottest startup hubs of Manhattan with $45
million in funding.

It's also insane - trusting hardware of unknown provenance with your customer
experience? Is it really that hard to buy a few iMacs (or cheapo Dell desktops
if that's your speed) for your support reps to use? That way hardware that's
critical to your support infrastructure isn't traveling on the subway every
day, getting broken, stolen, or god-knows-what.

This is a Series B startup with $45m in funding so far, they should be _way_
past the point of being able to buy some company machines for people to work
on.

~~~
lmg643
How does a company like this get $45 million in funding? Is that really cash
in the bank, or "on paper, committed under certain circumstances, with only $1
million actually in the bank as of today?"

I guess I just don't understand how a business like this could ever get funded
to $45 million.

Where's the competitive advantage?

India sent a satellite to orbit mars for $74 million, these guys have people
answering phones to book odd jobs for $45 million?

~~~
jonknee
> India sent a satellite to orbit mars for $74 million, these guys have people
> answering phones to book odd jobs for $45 million?

And the phones aren't even provided by the $45,000,000! Lunch is though, so
maybe that's what the big bucks get you.

------
pbreit
The unpaid day of work sounds illegal but is at least pathetically
unprofessional for that type of position.

------
aaron695
FYI in cased you missed it - This is a story about the world of telemarketing,
not startups.

~~~
unclesaamm
Eh. It's very much about the differential treatment that different types of
employees get in startup. I don't think it's uncommon for programmers to be
far more spoiled within companies than say, sales

------
notastartup
Handy.com seems like a really honest and humane company to work for. Just look
at the co-founder's face, it exudes an all caring expression, the type you can
only acquire by going to Harvard and working for McSomething consulting firm.

~~~
hiddentao
Hahaha :)

------
robodale
If I was the guy being interviewed, I would have punched that "Ajay" in the
fucking neck halfway through the interview...but looks like the company is
punching itself in the neck anyway. Good riddance.

------
bkeroack
This will never make the front page, no matter how many upvotes it receives.

~~~
tptacek
It's at the top of the front page.

~~~
huhtenberg
It's a conspiracy then!

------
hardwaresofton
This doesn't seem like it could have happened in real life. I can't believe
someone, especially in tech, could justify working in such an atmosphere with
those "benefits".

Yes, big companies may stifle creativity a little, but from what little I
read, this startup doesn't seem to be so great..

~~~
ceejayoz
It seems to be real. The company's response is at
[http://valleywag.gawker.com/handys-nightmare-tryout-
process-...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/handys-nightmare-tryout-process-is-a-
startup-stereotype-1649016476/) and reads basically "yeah but that was a while
ago, we're different now".

------
lettercarrier
The biz: Going rate where I deliver in Joisey for cleaners is $60 (min) for 2
hours. Homeowner/patrons I deliver to are too smart and would never call Handy
back for next time.. just arrange it when they leave and the tip is given.

Her story: : It's about revenge (or opportunity to gain satisfaction). Does
not matter if 0 or 100% is true - impersonal bashing is just now so easy and
like this post, can lead to tons of reaction and attention. At my other job a
man gets coffee each morning (at a C-store on Rt 15) and text's the district
manager with his version of how bad the store is that morning. Each day, every
day. No Joke. "Out of lids" \- "Didn't say Good Morning" "bla bla bla" He does
it because he can.. it's not revenge.. (we need a new word)

Her story v2.0 - It's about eyeballs. Making a post "pop" \- The billfold
(says) is a site about money, earning, spending, etc.. Her post is like having
watermelon for Thanksgiving dessert. Satisfaction from eyeballs and keystrokes
for certain to a site that is a stretch for relevance.

Her story v3.0 - Just another (engaging) article about a not so good place to
work, of which we should never be surprised when we hear stories like this
again and again.

I re read her words more than three times and something does not smell quite
right. Just my gut. Perfect quotes, predictable responses, outrageous behavior
of 'strangers' (the brandy new co-workers)- even the AHs in my Gov't job know
when to not talk, especially around new faces. New faces are always thought of
as spies until proven otherwise. [like the old phrase "a first impression has
to be disproven"]

