

Indians cry out for Apple's attention - bakbak
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/tech-savvy-indians-cry-out-for-apples-attention/articleshow/7760063.cms

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atishbabu
the article misses a big point on why Apple products are slow to come to
India. the Indian government has imposed a 51% FDI (foreign ownership) cap on
single-brand retail stores, hence the most apple could own if they started
apple stores in India is 51%.

India sells very little electronics online as of yet so most of Apple sales
happen online. so if you are Apple and you arbitrarily have to give up 49% for
no reason wouldn't you wait for regulations to change instead of helping prop
up some arbitrary partner that you are forced to do business with? moreover,
if you have to prioritize markets, wouldn't you prioritize markets where you
own all of the business that you created before giving inventory that is in
short-supply to a market where you are forced to sell through 3rd parties?

also, this does not even start to address the duties and other fees imposed on
apple for selling in India which jacks up prices for their products and
reduces their addressable market. again, if you have to prioritize wouldn't
you choose markets that were more friendly assuming limited supplies of your
product were available. wouldn't you only come in when supplies were high
enough or products were saturated enough in other markets that were more
favorable to you?

the article also confuses the population for India with Apple's available
market in India, because of income levels in India a very small portion of the
population has the income and desire to buy Apple products (Remember, India is
the market of the TATA Nano, the 1 lakh car or about $2000 to $2500 USD based
on the USD-INR exchange rate). Indians tend to very cost sensitive. Yes, India
has over a billion people, but I bet Apple's market in India is 0.1% of the
population or 1 million people max (and even then I think that 0.11% is high
and overly generous). Compare that to Dubai or Singapore or Belgium where the
population is much smaller but Apple's addressable market is higher due to
incomes and purchasing behaviors.

I am Indian and live in Mumbai and would prefer new Apple products to be
available in India sooner rather than later (I have a iPhone, iPad, AppleTV,
and MacBook Pro), but I understand why Apple has made certain business
decisions in how they prioritize their markets.

~~~
bakbak
This FDI norms are hurdles but it should not be the only obstacle as there are
many companies that are marketing their products successfully, in fact Dell is
going to make $2billion from India alone and they have more than 20,000
employees there ... India is certainly a biggest growth market but then you
need to concentrate on that properly by having active presence and that is
what Apple lacks right now ...

~~~
atishbabu
first, don't think people who want to buy a Mac are considering buying a Dell
or HP device, two different market segments with two different needs, that's
like saying because the TATA Nano is selling well in India that Aston Martin
should be prioritizing India as a key market despite there being more people
who would actually purchase an Aston in a country like Dubai or Singapore or
Belgium

second, I never suggested that India was a small computer market, just saying
that the original article does not address some reasons beyond Apple's control
nor does it look at things from Apple's perspective, Apple is not stupid if it
was worthwhile for them to prioritize India higher the company would, just
look at their efforts in China in terms of the iPhone and opening Apple retail
stores, every business has limited time and resources and people and you are
going to use those things in the markets that gives you the best return on
your investment

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alienreborn
I have many friends and relatives who use apple products but none of them
bought them in india but imported them via relatives and friends who live in
US. Buying an apple product(except low end ipod models) in india is
prohibitively costly and illogical since you will end up buying an older
version.

Even though India not as lucrative as western markets for high end tech
gadgets, the market is ever increasing and Apple should seriously change their
strategy in India. It would be great if they open iStores in Metros where
there definitely is a vast market to tap in.

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fpgeek
I really think they should have should have said _something_ about Notion Ink.
While there have been bumps in the road, Indians aren't just waiting for Apple
or Samsung to smile on them. Some Indians are making tablets of their own.

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Jabbles
_An Apple spokesman who asked not to be named said that the company did not
disclose sales figures for India or discuss future release dates for products.
He also declined to comment on criticism of Apple's strategy in India._

Useful...

What's most intriguing is that there is almost certainly some good (financial)
reason for this strategy. Perhaps it's to do with marketing as Apple tries to
make their products a sign of "rich and have friends globally" before opening
up sales. I wonder how many new iPads Apple made for sale in India, or whether
they are continuing to use existing stock.

~~~
desigooner
if you took a casual survey of people owning apple products in India, in all
probability you'd find that a bulk of those people would say that they
procured the product via USA, UK, Singapore, Dubai or Australia and the likes
vs. officially buying it from an Apple partner in India.

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brudgers
Although India is seeing economic growth, attaining US levels for income is a
long way off. The top 5% of Indians by income have approximately the same
level of purchasing power as the the lowest 5% of US residents on average
according to World Bank economist Branko Milanovic in _The Haves and the Have-
Nots, a Brief and Idiosyncratic History of Global Inequality_.
[[http://www.amazon.com/Haves-Have-Nots-Idiosyncratic-
History-...](http://www.amazon.com/Haves-Have-Nots-Idiosyncratic-History-
Inequality/dp/0465019749)]

That's not to say that there are not a large number of Indian individuals with
substantial purchasing power (5% of Indians is 50 million people compared with
15 million in the US so there is a lot of disparity within the Indian group).
Nevertheless, nearly everyone in the United States has more purchasing power
than most of the top portion by income of the Indian population.

For Apple, it is a simple matter of economics - they will sell more iPads
elsewhere and by creating scarcity they can sell older models at a high price
to offset the lower profits Apple accepts when selling new products in
wealthier countries.

~~~
ankimal
_Nevertheless, nearly everyone in the United States has more purchasing power
than most of the top portion by income of the Indian population._

I beg to disagree. Top portion of indian income is a lot of people who can
afford a lot of gizmos and $500 iPads are penny change for them.

To come back to the point of smartphones in India, considering that 3G came
less than a year ago, <http://thinkingaloud.in/ArticleComments.aspx?ArtId=770>
says that there are already 8-9 million smartphones before 3G came. So lets
throw affordability for the _richer_ as compared to the poorer in America out
of the window, shall we?

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Isamu
I am confident that India is on Apple's radar screen, and they are certainly
interested in broadening their international markets. The fact that they don't
discuss their strategy is well known and not surprising in this case. I also
don't think anybody should be surprised that the business issues are different
and complex compared to the US. This is probably further complicated by the
fact that Apple wants to do things on its own terms most of the time.

As an aside for those who get tired of the news about Apple on HN, I find it a
very good source of study for anybody interested in business. In particular
you see Apple going against the conventional wisdom sometimes and they come up
a winner. They have managed to put together a very robust team and are still
in a period of explosive revenue growth. What's not to talk about?

------
ved
One more reason not to use Apple products in India...

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unwantedLetters
The Reliance iStore (which is a "premium reseller" of Apple products and what
most Indians think is an Apple store) was selling me a non-unibody Mac in
mid-2010 in Chennai (a fairly large city of approximately 4.6 million people).
I didn't bother to check what rev it actually was, but it certainly left a bad
taste in my mouth about Apple.

The iStore website: <http://www.istoreindia.com/index.html>

(edit: I must add that they don't have the machine online, I was just linking
to the iStore website)

~~~
statictype
Odd. I bought a unibody MacBook around May/June 2010 in one of the Reliance
iStores in Chennai. Don't recall seeing any older models there.

Though they don't sell any of the latest iOS devices I was under the
impression that the latest desktops and notebooks come to India pretty
quickly.

~~~
unwantedLetters
It was the 17 inch model(which to be fair was the last one that even Apple
phased out). The store I went to was on RK Salai. I had gone to the store soon
after the 2010 models were released. I thought it was mid-2010. But it seems
the release date was April 13 2010. So I probably went within a week of that
date.

------
jrubyer
Why is Hacker News becoming more and more Apple News?

//I don't care about the downvotes, this needs to be said.

~~~
beaumartinez
How long have you been on Hacker News? Your account is only 20 days old; can
you pass adequate judgment on the matter?

Simple answer: Apple is popular in Hacker News lately because they've done a
lot of interesting (~ discussion-worthy) things lately, such as: change the
App Store guidelines to demand 30% of subscriptions revenue, released a Mac OS
X Lion developer preview, the iPad 2, renewed their Mac Book Pro lineup,
Thunderbolt, controversy between Amazon and Apple regarding the name App
Store...

~~~
jrubyer
> How long have you been on Hacker News? Your account is only 20 days old; can
> you pass adequate judgment on the matter?

So, if a person's userid is 20 days old, then does it directly mean that the
person has been using the site for only 20 days? what kind of logic is this?

~~~
beaumartinez
Hence why I asked if they can pass adequate judgment on the matter, which I've
now realized sounds _horribly_ condescending.

Even so, I think the _majority_ of _frequent_ HN-readers (ie, those able of
passing judgment on its trends) will have set-up an account, and I think the
age of this account is a good indicator of how long you've spent reading it.

------
bakbak
"Indians are not maximalists, but they are not minimalists either."

"Indians like the idea of more in less."

India is a very different market and I guess Apple will take time to
understand it but I hope its not too late ... Indian market is for both
(classes & masses) and they both love and want Apple products... i was happy
when i heard Tim Cook saying that Apple can't make products only for rich -
this came when i guess cheaper iphone rumor was in media, and if Apple wants
to remain world leader even 50yrs from now then they have to turn this rumor
in to reality asap by pushing their innovation button even harder than ever
before... India is a HUGE HUGE market and to understand that you require your
active presence there ...Indians like the idea of more in less and that is the
biggest challenge for any non-indian companies, because they just dont get it
(in the beginning) ... for the first few years they struggle until they
understand social-cultural-economical way of thinking of this unique
society...

~~~
start123
Apple iPhone costs about $900 in India which is ridiculosly high than its
American price.

~~~
lurch_mojoff
Well, the iPhone is 600-700 euro in Europe, too, but carrier plans are also
cheaper than those in the states, as I would guess are in India. Things indeed
look very unfair if you don't factor in subsidies and factor out taxes and
duties.

~~~
start123
900$ is when you have a carrier plan. There are two carriers in India which
sell the iPhone at that rate. Again, anything around 600$ would have done
wonders to Apple in India. I myself would have bought it!

~~~
lurch_mojoff
The 16 GB iPhone 4 is €659 with €15 per month for 12 months plan on Vodafone
in Greece. I understand that the size of the respective markets is vastly
different and that strategically sacrificing margins for market share is more
justified for the Indian market, but my point is that higher prices than the
US is not unique to India situation.

