
Apple starts patenting mobile app ideas - techvibe
http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/07/30/apple-starts-patenting-mobile-app-ideas/
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asnyder
For years I've said that Apple is by far one of the scariest software
companies out there.

The enthusiasm for their products and CEO seems to have a blinding effect on
the very same people that would normally be up in arms.

I think it would be an interesting social experiment to outline many of their
business practices without mention of the products, company or brand, even
possibly an alias, or dummy co. and survey their hardcore base for opinion of
the company.

~~~
spoiledtechie
You have to think about it. If Apple were a type of government, what type
would they be?

Wait, Ill let you guess.

Socialist Dictatorship. Think about how closed they are as a system... Would
you really want a Socialist Dictatorship running your country?

~~~
stanleydrew
This is a pretty flame-y comment. There's not much use in this comparison. It
only serves to ignite the Apple fans and detracts from what could be an
otherwise great conversation about _this particular event_.

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dejb
I don't get how mentioning the political angle of the sentiment expressed in
the parent post somehow makes it flamey.

Both platforms and governments represent ways of coordinating the productivity
of numerous participants. Although there are differences it seems reasonable
to think that lessons learned in one sphere may very well transfer to the
other. If you believe that central planning is the most effective method for a
platform (both hardware and software) then isn't it reasonable to ask why this
wouldn't translate to the wider economy as well?

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natrius
It's not a useful comparison. Companies aren't run like governments, where
democracy is usually held as the ideal. The comment wasn't useful, but it was
inflammatory. I don't think the commenter had bad intentions, but I agree with
stanleydrew's judgment.

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theBobMcCormick
I've actually been wondering a lot lately why _isn't_ democracy held as an
ideal for companies? With the amount of power that large corporations have,
why do we as a society not hold them to higher standards and require them to
_be_ governed more democratically?

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ThomPete
Because the nothing would ever be done.

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theBobMcCormick
Then why do we run countries that way? If "benevolent dictatorship" is good
enough for giant multinationals, why isn't it good enough for nations? If it
isn't good enough for nations, why is it good enough for multinationals that
have as much or more power than many nations?

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timr
As bad as this seems, the best thing you can do as an aspiring developer is
_ignore it completely_ , and do whatever you're going to do anyway.

The only way these patents are going to matter to you is if you hit it big
enough to be worth taking to court -- it's a millionaire problem. Even then,
there are lots of steps between "patent granted" and "patent successfully
defended in court". You're so far from that point that it's not even worth
thinking about this kind of crap.

Also, before you bust out your pitchforks and torches, put your logic hat on
for a second: this doesn't make any sense as an offensive move. The patent
system is broken and everybody knows it. And as a result, any responsible tech
company with sufficient resources _must_ play the same game of mutual self-
destruction. Meanwhile, Apple has a vested interest in cultivating a developer
community. Patent trolls could easily kill that community. If Apple didn't
patent ideas like this, some patent troll in Texas _would_ , and the situation
would be much worse for small developers.

Obviously, I don't _know_ if Apple is being defensive or offensive here, but
it's pretty difficult to imagine them going from retail hardware company to
professional patent troll. Again, it doesn't make sense as an offensive move.

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ergo98
>The only way these patents are going to matter to you is

...if you want financing.

The investment community keeps a close eye on patents, because it's a major
potential liability.

>Obviously, I don't know if Apple is being defensive or offensive here, but
it's pretty difficult to imagine them going from retail hardware company to
professional patent troll

It's easy to imagine. Microsoft went through exactly the same metamorphosis.
Originally their patents were "defensive" (which is a spurious to start with
-- simply documenting making an idea public is just as much of a defense), but
as the growth curve started to peak they started looking at that portfolio as
a way to assure their continued success, if by less productive means.

~~~
124816
> which is a spurious to start with -- simply documenting making an idea
> public is just as much of a defense

The idea behind defensive patents isn't that they defend your use of that
idea, but that they defend you from competitors who have patents that might
affect you. (Since they hopefully allow you to countersue.)

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Timothee
One thing that surprises me in the images was that one of them is exactly
"Where to?" by tap tap tap:

<http://taptaptap.com/#whereto>

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metachris
Wow, it's just blatently ripped off! Wonder what else they got "inspired"
by...

Direct links to the images:

taptaptap: <http://taptaptap.com/img/screenshot/whereto/1.jpg>

the patent: [http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/07/Apple-...](http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/07/Apple-patent-travel-app.jpg) (upper right "mockup")

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sahaj
maybe they are trying to protect the app, so that folks on other platforms
(cough-google-cough) don't rip it off?

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jmaygarden
If a patent is filed by someone other than the inventor then it is void. They
would have to put the taptaptap people on the patent.

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vaporstun
While I'm certainly not a fan of this like most commenters here, am I the only
one that is of the opinion that instead of hating Apple, we should hate the
broken US Patent system?

While it disgusts me that they are able to patent these things, they are
operating within the current rules of the patent system, and one could argue
that if they didn't do so, someone else may come along and patent the same
things. The phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game" comes to mind. In
fact, they could be running afoul of their duty to their shareholders if they
did not make their best effort within the law to protect their intellectual
property. They could be altruistic and morally correct as many people here
seem to wish they would, but someone else could come along, file the same
silly patent, and succeed then bring a suit against Apple for infringement. We
should all be sending letters to the USPTO or Congress, not Apple for this
atrocity.

Further, it is important to keep in mind that these are patent applications
that have been FILED, but are not patents that have been ISSUED. There is a
big difference there. I could file an application for a patent on a pencil,
but it will not become an issued patent because that's bogus. Likewise for
these, they may well get rejected for being unpatentable subject matter.

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evilmushroom
Too many free passes for Apple in these comments.

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vlucas
This seems like a direct conflict of interest for Apple. Patenting app ideas
will only serve to further alienate developers from the platform.

I don't see any good coming from this, and I really hope "generic idea"
patents like this start getting shot down by the patent office with regular
frequency.

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alok-g
The philosophy with patents these days is that whatever you do (as a part of a
big company) that hasn't been done exactly that way before, you submit an
invention disclosure on it. In this sense, patents these days are used more
like copyrights!

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pfarrell
Gary Kildall refused to develop anything like a word processor application for
CP/M because, basically, that way leads to evil and corruption. MS, of course,
beat him out in the IBM deal and dominated with exactly that recipe.

Everything old is new again.

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fuzzythinker
They recently patented this 3D Modeling using an iphone too:
[http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_investig...](http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_investigates_3d_recording_of_real_world_places_objects.html)

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smiler
The article only looks at it from the 'Apple is evil' perspective. I wonder if
Apple are patenting these purely so that others can't and thereby allowing
freedom for developers to develop these apps without worrying about patent
infringement

~~~
char
I'm looking at this from the "ANYONE who tries to patent generic ideas is
evil" perspective.

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timr
No offense, but that's not a very nuanced or useful way to think about the
situation. It's the same line of thinking that makes 16-year-old kids declare
that they'll never work for The Man. Idealistic and perhaps admirable, but not
very practical.

Opposing any individual player in a game for acting in their own rational best
interest is dumb. If a big company with good products _didn't_ act defensively
in these situations, they'd be eaten alive by patent trolls who have no such
qualms. Until the _laws_ are changed, these kinds of patents are a necessary
evil.

~~~
gbhn
A complication with patent trolls is that they're immune to defensive patents:
they don't practice, so they can't be countersued or bargained with. I think
you probably mean "other companies that develop mobile apps." In this case,
especially in the context of the direct copy of the TapTapTap app as shown
above, it looks like this means "our own developers."

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SkyMarshal
I don't see these patents up on PeerToPatent.org yet, but if anyone has any
data that can invalidate them, keep an eye out for when they do go up and stop
the applications in their tracks.

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jsz0
Why do people expect Apple to play by different rules? If they are developing
these applications to be released in 8 months they're potentially in a bad
spot if someone else patents them 2 months from now. What they choose to do
after they are granted the patent is a separate issue. Patent reform in
general is yet another issue. It's like complaining that the away team hits a
technical free throw in a basketball. That's just how the game is played these
days.

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vlad
Even more worrying is the clear indication that Apple is switching to E-Ink
display technology for next-gen devices.

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mkramlich
seeing this has pushed me over the edge. i now want to join or start an effort
to destroy or at least fix the idiocy that is the current US software patent
system. we cannot let this bullshit continue!

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korch
What ever happened to Apple taking the lead, standing up, and doing the right
thing, damn the consequences? One of the reasons why Apple fans have been so
fanatical about Apple products is because they know Apple will do the right
thing. Unlike say, Microsoft.

So now Apple is just like any other evil, scheming mega-corp. It's pretty sad
actually. Like the day the music died, Apple software has died.

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prodigal_erik
When has Apple ever indulged in idealism? They support a hellhole of a
manufacturing plant, they willingly implemented DRM before complaining about
it, everything they've made for decades has been disposable and hostile to
tinkerers, and now they are starting a dystopian software market that's
authoritarian in ways Microsoft never even dared.

~~~
korch
Hmm, after you put it that way, you are right of course. I think you just
broke my Reality Distortion Field!

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tvon
Don't hate the player, hate the game.

~~~
fredpeters
If this is an analogy to sport and say the sport is baby killing. Then I can
hate the game and the player. You have a choice to get involved in the game.

If this as an analogy to drug dealing. I agree that you should not hate the
players, as they have no choice.

However, I am allowed to hate the drug lord(s).

~~~
tvon
> _If this is an analogy to sport and say the sport is baby killing. Then I
> can hate the game and the player. You have a choice to get involved in the
> game._

My point is that Apple is merely playing by the same rules as everyone else.
Getting upset because Apple patents something broad or obvious is just
misguided, they're quite honestly doing exactly what they are supposed to be
doing as a publicly held company.

Some companies may avoid patents for ethical reasons, but ignoring the problem
isn't going to solve anything.

IMO, anyway.

