
“I’m sorry we’ve given the impression that we're dropping support for i386 apps” - cameronbrown
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/84
======
matthewbauer
It sounds like they expect everyone to use Snap for 32-bit binaries. This
might make sense for very popular apps like Steam, but is bound to break for
legacy binaries that won't have any Snaps available.

What's been missing here is the rationale for removing these libraries,
though. Glibc, and most other base libraries still support 32-bit intel
without any problems. The cost of Ubuntu providing them seems very low here.
Since they even use APT still, I suspect they could even reuse the Debian
repos for i386!

~~~
mook
Stupid question: if they don't ship an i386 version, how would the snaps be
created? Since there would no longer be a root disk it could be based on…

I'm probably missing something obvious?

~~~
lathiat
Snaps can be built from an OS version, e.g. from 18.04 which still has 32-bit
and will for 5 years (from April 2018). And the snap includes all the system
libraries etc.

~~~
jdboyd
Fwiw, 18.04 is promised security updates until 2028 instead of the normal
2023.

~~~
viraptor
Only if you're paying for the extra support through Ubuntu Advantage program.

------
gbraad
The message and comments actually raise more questions. While they might not
completely remove the i386 libraries, they will be marked as "legacy" and will
not see any updates (frozen 18.04 versions). But what about security fixes?
The thread is an interesting read, but also feels like this was made as a
uninformed decision; were the consequences realized? And if they were, why is
this not properly communicated? Their userbase and 'partners' need to know and
understand what this means to them. Reading the response from Valve, this
clearly isn't the case.

------
kgwxd
I haven't had the time to dig into this drama over the past few days. I
personally don't care about support for a physical 32-bit processor machine, I
just want to be able to run old games, EEPROM writer software, and handful of
software for patching old instruments, on my 10 year old 64-bit machine. Will
that still be doable?

~~~
hnzix
The implication is that if the 32bit libraries are frozen in time forever,
emulators, wine[0] and some game platforms will soon become incompatible with
Ubuntu.

If that's the case, it's dishonest to say "oh we're not killing 32bit" when in
fact they're boiling the frog.

This has pissed off Valve enough to make vaguely threatening statements about
stepping away from Ubuntu.

[0] [https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-
dro...](https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-
starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/121)

~~~
misterdoubt
No longer vague. They're ending support for Ubuntu.
[https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/22/steam-will-stop-
supporti...](https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/22/steam-will-stop-supporting-
ubuntu-linux/)

~~~
everdrive
And Debian is _not_ stepping away from 32-bit? So we can all just move to
Debian or a derivative if we liked Ubuntu?

------
Cacti
> But there is every intention to ensure that there is a clear story for how
> i386 applications (including games) can be run on versions of Ubuntu later
> than 19.10.

‘a clear story’ doesn’t sound to me like actual support, it sounds more like
words chosen to obfuscate the fact that they won’t be providing support, and
will instead offload support to some third party, with no actual guarantees.

~~~
dwaite
What would actual guarantees mean for consumers, who aren't paying for or
receiving commercial support?

If someone is paying for commercial support and this drop affects them, they
should probably be calling their rep about now.

------
mehrdadn
A little bit confused... Debian will still fully support x86, right? Why can't
the community get any updates they need from Debian repos?

~~~
hapless
Because Ubuntu is very hacked-up, and you will likely break your aystem

------
de_watcher
Looks like the Wine x32 emulation is based on the x32 Ubuntu distribution
existing.

So now even if Canonical agrees to support just a subset of the x32 libraries
then they'll be testing it not like a distribution but like a base for Wine
(because it won't be used as a whole dist).

I understand that the Wine project doesn't want to take on that work. They
aren't comfortable with the fact that x32 will become like one of those old
gaming consoles we need emulators for, and everything will eventually go into
Wine.

Either way the testing will be reduced.

------
dehrmann
It's not quite clear from this: are they dropping i386 or something more like
i686? I recently got modern Debian to start up on my first computer, a PII
350. It only worked because that was the first modern x86 architecture that
distros support easily. Pretty much everything older's been dropped.

~~~
matthewbauer
I think a few distros still support all the way back to i486. Debian and
Ubuntu only support i686 though. Too bad too because i586 CPUs were on the
market as recently as 2015 (Intel Quark).

[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-6...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-686-For-i386-CPUs)

~~~
duskwuff
Intel Quark has some catastrophic errata which make it unable to run any stock
Linux distribution. In particular, there's an issue with its implementation of
the LOCK instruction prefix which can cause unpredictable crashes -- and the
CPU has no microcode update facility, so there's no way to patch it.

------
meruru
Wouldn't it make sense to drop 32-bit on intermediate releases but keep it on
LTS releases? It sounds like the perfect compromise to me, but I'm not sure
what exactly it takes to support 32-bit. Is it a matter of human or computing
resources that's driving this?

~~~
yskchu
It's still supported on 18.04 LTS etc, they just don't want to support it in
20.04 LTS, so this is a preparation move.

[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-D...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-
Drops-32-bit-x86)

~~~
meruru
I mean why not support it only on 20.04, 22.04 and so on.

~~~
desas
Because that code will then be untested for the releases between LTS and hence
more fragile and expensive to support within it.

~~~
meruru
The code will be tested in its 64-bit form. Is 6 months not enough to check
for 32-bit specific bugs? How often are there 32-bit bugs anyway?

------
Grue3
They shouldn't be sorry. Canonical is not Microsoft, it can't afford to
support legacy software forever. Let Valve support i386 apps for Linux, they
definitely have money and resources for it.

~~~
cameronbrown
Then they can't pretend to care about desktop users anymore - I just think
it'll damage them and their brand in the long term.

