
Uber makes JFK airport helicopter taxis available to all users - prostoalex
https://in.reuters.com/article/uber-copter/uber-makes-jfk-airport-helicopter-taxis-available-to-all-users-idINKBN1WI15X
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olivermarks
New York Airways used to have a helicopter service from JFK to Manhattan, it
was cheap and frequent.

Wikipedia: 'New York Airways flew Vertol 107 helicopters from the rooftop
helipad to Pan Am's terminal at John F. Kennedy International Airport from
December 21, 1965, to February 18, 1968, when the service ceased due to
inadequate passenger loads. For a short part of that time, they also offered
service to Teterboro Airport.

Service to JFK resumed in early 1977 using Sikorsky S-61s. On May 16, 1977,
about one minute after an S-61L landed and its 20 passengers disembarked, the
right front landing gear collapsed, causing the aircraft to topple onto its
side with the rotors still turning. One of the five 20-foot (6.1 m) blades
broke off and flew into a crowd of passengers waiting to board. Three men were
killed instantly and another died later in a hospital. The blade sailed over
the side of the building and killed a female pedestrian on the corner of
Madison Avenue and 43rd Street. Two other people were seriously injured.
Helicopter service was quickly suspended, and never resumed'.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetLife_Building#Helicopter_se...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetLife_Building#Helicopter_service)

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wodenokoto
> it was cheap and frequent.

Do you know what the price was?

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mattnguyen
$5 according to the YouTube documentary posted in your sibling comment.

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wodenokoto
Wow, that is extremely cheap!

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techdragon
I haven’t had time to watch the documentary yet, but my first thought about a
$5 price tag is that it can’t possibly be accounting for inflation.

$5 in 1977 is about $21.15 give or take a few cents according to most of the
website i checked the numbers on.

So while it might be $5, that was definitely not as cheap as it might
otherwise seem.

Regardless of the inflation adjustments, ~$20 is surprisingly inexpensive for
a commuter helicopter ride, I wonder if the economies of scale really do bring
it down or if they were still eating their losses trying to grow business at
that price.

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wodenokoto
Thanks for doing the math. $20 is still so cheap as to warrent a "Wow, that is
incredibly cheap" IMHO.

Taxi flat rate from Manhatten to JFK is over $50. How the price for a
helicopter ride could be on the same order of magnitude as a taxi is beyond
me.

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lizavp
The flat rate has only been in effect for several years. I would assume it
would be a lot more expensive to take a taxi from midtown directly to JFK
before the flat rate.

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noelwelsh
This just shows the poor state of NYC's public transport. With decent public
transport there should be approximately zero demand for this service.

It's about 1h20m from Penn Station to JFK taking first the LIRR to Jamaica and
then changing to the AirTrain. Sometimes you'll get lucky and get an express
train and you can do it in about 40 minutes. The distance is about 15 miles or
25 kms.

It's normally longer (and a lot more expensive) to take a taxi.

It would take about 1h30m to cycle to JFK from Penn Station, which is
comparable to public transport (though obviously impractical for most people
taking a flight).

With well designed public transport the trip should be no more than 30 mins.
That's an average of 30 mph, easily achievable by light rail. There should be
a direct train connection to JFK instead of the slow AirTrain. Why isn't
there? Basically because NYC can't get it's act together when it comes to
building public transport. The Wikipedia page has more:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_JFK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_JFK)

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apaprocki
Manhattan is huge, so context of where you are starting is very important. For
me, I’m a 2 minute walk to the E train, where I can be already through
security in the terminal in 45 minutes. What matters is not the speed but the
_consistency_. I’ve never had it deviate from that number by any meaningful
amount.

We do have well designed public transportation, but you can’t make every point
on the island take equal time.

It’s similar with the Paddington Express in London. It’s one of the nicest
airport train experiences, period. But then you’re in Paddington Station and
you need to get to wherever you need to go in the city and that makes it take
as long as the JFK trip for most people.

If you actually look on a map there’s basically no way anyone could have built
a LIRR style train to JFK in modern times without the entire length being a
tunnel. The AirTrain is fast and very good at what it does — get you to the
subway or LIRR.

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noelwelsh
The relevant time is from whatever the transport hub is to the destination.
The people who live a few stops from Heathrow on the Piccadilly line can get
there pretty quickly but that is not a useful measure. I chose Penn Station
because that's where the LIRR currently leaves from. The Wikipedia article
talks about how a direct train line was planned but didn't eventuate.

I can't agree that NYC has well designed public transportation. Metro North,
the other train line I have experience with, is also dreadfully slow. The
subway is old, dirty, and has poor signage.

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cjrp
> The relevant time is from whatever the transport hub is to the destination

It seems like the Heathrow Express comparison is fair then; Paddington's a
transport hub (surface trains and several tube lines pass through it), and it
takes 15 mins to Heathrow.

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apaprocki
This is just rebranded service. I was curious on launch day and it quoted me
$222. Going direct to Blade is $195.

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dev_dull
Factor in an Uber to and fro (included from what I can tell) and you’re
probably coming out ahead with Uber.

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hw
I'd be interested to see some data on the entire trip duration including the
uber X rides on both ends. Does Uber copter only make sense if you aren't
stuck in traffic on th way to the helipad?

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ngoel36
Average time savings e2e is usually at least 30m during rush hour (we are
servicing Manhattan below Houston for now to the downtown Heliport) but up to
an hour of time saved for some

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sschueller
What's the CO2 footprint for using such a service vs taking a cab and sitting
in traffic?

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csharpminor
It's substantial. Helicopters produce roughly 43 times more CO2 per hour than
cars. From a 2016 NYT article:

> The Airbus AS350 series of helicopters, one of the most popular among tour
> operators, produces approximately 950 pounds of carbon dioxide emissions per
> hour; the average car produces 22 pounds per hour.

> There are often eight helicopters motoring on the downtown heliport at any
> time. For those living and working nearby, that’s like 340 cars idling
> outside your window. Conservatively estimated, the 56,000 annual tourist
> flights have a carbon footprint greater than 6,000 metric tons.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/a-plague-o...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/a-plague-
of-helicopters-is-ruining-new-york.html)

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chrischen
Shouldn't you calculate it by passenger-time? The car seats 1-3 people, sits
in traffic, etc. A passenger BUS probably does a lot more CO2 than a car
too...

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rriepe
I'm more confused how a helicopter that's 2500 lbs empty can somehow spit out
over 900 lbs of emissions every hour for its four hour flight endurance.
They've got to be doing some tricky calculations to get there. I'm guessing it
looks more like consideration of infrastructure and production than it does
passenger-time.

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Zanni
One pound of carbon becomes 3.7 pounds of CO2 "emissions" when it combines
with atmospheric oxygen:
[https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/contentIncludes/co2_inc.htm](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/contentIncludes/co2_inc.htm)

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peter303
One gallon of carbon petroleum fuel weighing 7 pounds becomes 22 pounds of
carbon dioxide. Essentially in burning fuel you replace carbon plus two
hydrogen atoms- atomic weight 14- with a carbon plus two oxygen atoms- atomic
weight 44. That is an increase of 3.14x.

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PeterStuer
The negative externalities for this type of transport must be massive. Even
the noise pollution on its own should probably disqualify this beyond public
emergency services.

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cududa
This is a spot that’s been a commercial helicopter landing/ launch pad for
decades. It’s between the FDR Highway and the Hudson River. It’s not adding a
lot of noise to anything.

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rwmurrayVT
I took an Uber helicopter at EDC Las Vegas. It was partnered out with a local
company that did the usual tours. It was pretty convenient and a cool add-on
by Uber.

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sytelus
> Uber says the service is intended to reduce travel times, but when Reuters
> tried Copter on Wednesday, a trip from its Midtown office to the airport
> took 70 minutes, including a subway ride downtown and two Uber rides to and
> from the heliport. That’s about the same time it would have taken by regular
> taxi in moderate traffic.

Helicopters are the beasts - mechanically, operationally and humanly. We need
to invest in quad/hexcopter style autonomous point-to-point person-carrying
flying vehicles. That could enable ability to fly out from nearly every
building roof top with fraction of a cost. The 10-minute flight is also easily
achievable with electrical UAVs.

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pininja
Uber Copter is just the beginning.. I’m on the Uber Elevate team developing
this. Our primary mission is Electric VTOLs.

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PeterStuer
Do you ever take pause at the probable environmental hellhole you are helping
creating working on this?

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johnisgood
I, for one, cannot wait for mid-air collisions and parts falling down on
residential areas, which is of course just the tip of the iceberg.

Seriously, I doubt they care. They probably know about these negative impacts,
the risks, etc. but money is money.

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breakerbox
The additional revenue from this stream is a drop in the bucket to Uber. I
could be off here, but this seems like they will likely use these type of
things just as advertisements and branding.

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ngoel36
Hey there, we actually launched this as a precursor to our Uber Air service
with all electric VTOLs -- Uber.com/air

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lacampbell
Helicopter Taxis are much cheaper than I thought they would be. What distance
do they travel for that amount of money? Not familiar with New York.

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adrianmonk
Well, at least it's true to their name. You are literally above/over.

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bhouston
I worry about crazy people easily flying on a helicopter and crashing it.

Crashing a taxi isn't such a big deal, but crashing an airplane or helicopter
is.

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greggyb
There are already helicopter tours and other companies offering this same air-
taxi service. Is your worry new upon hearing this news, or is Uber somehow
more dangerous?

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juskrey
Helicopter is a sucker's trap. Safety is nearly non-existing comparing to
modern planes. Wait until the first accident and closure.

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vuln
Can you feel the “disruption”?

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Terretta
All these ride sharing / ride hailing things are more trouble than their price
(see note) if you’re anywhere near a cab line or major avenue or cross street.

All NYC cabs now let you use an app like Curb to just key in their number and
have the ride paid like magic with no card payment interaction at all.

Only use case left for ride hailing would be if you’re all dressed up and
don’t want to walk from your front door to hail a cab, but the ride hailing
drivers seem completely confused when expected to show up at an actual address
instead of a pin on a corner, so the brands squander that advantage.

 _Note: I’m not price conscious, it’s literally just more hassle to use
something other than a cab if you’re in Manhattan. If Uber, Lyft, or Juno
saved me time or hassle, I’d spend an arbitrary price. They don’t, they take
longer, and are completely unpredictable as to whether they’ll ever stop
circling the block and actually come get you. Can add 15+ minutes just messing
around getting to you in midtown. Cabs are less volatility, now just as easy
to pay for (there’s an app for that), and incidentally, also less cost._

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mffnbs
Chicago has a very heavy cab presence and yet you'll get a lot of strange
looks if you're standing on your residential street with your arm out
expecting to get a cab. They'll drive by when dropping people off, but you'd
be standing there awkwardly for a very long time.

I can have an Uber at my door in < 3 minutes with two clicks on my phone.

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cozzyd
My highrise building apparently has a cab light that can be requested to be
turned on. I saw someone use it once, it didn't seem like they waited very
long for a cab to pull up to the front door.

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mav3rick
Not everyone lives in luxury buildings.

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magashna
Is a switchable light really a luxury?

