
Buy Nothing Day - krisc
http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/bnd
======
pg
People who think it's bad to want the world economy to grow probably haven't
stopped to think about what economic growth consists of. Economic growth isn't
just fat Americans buying bigger SUVs. It's also people in poor countries
increasing their standard of living, and advances in medical care.

~~~
balsam
could there be a case however against economic growth being too fast? an
example of too fast would be building a chernobyl before the safety
infrastructure was up.

~~~
orijing
I wouldn't consider that growth, though.

~~~
balsam
Web.py is arguably an example of shoddy engineering in explosive software
startups that did not become a medical experiment.

"The results show that foremost among the causes of growth in U.S., German and
Japanese manufacturing value added is electric power consumption."[1] Now I
wouldn't pay too much attention to the word "causes" in there, but...

Define your terms too precisely and there would be nothing to think about.

[1]"Engineering and Economic Growth"
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0954349X04...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0954349X04000578)

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jeremyarussell
Is it just me that's sick and tired of all these extreme all or nothing
causes? It's either no patents or leave it the same, it's either capitalism is
all bad or all good, it's either we are saving the planet or burning it as we
go.

You know we can just change certain laws in the patent system to get it fixed
right?

You understand that the idea of someone being able to sale their hard work for
a living isn't evil right?

Or that maybe just making a true concerted effort of a smaller carbon
footprint is enough? We don't need to ban all gas lines, or coal and replace
it all with solar wind farms.

Consider this, we are fighting other people's ideals with equally extreme
ideals and then wonder why the world doesn't see our brilliance. They think
all of torrenting technology is evil because it allows for easier
"unauthorized" access of someone else's creative content. It's a tool people.
Capitalism isn't bad, overly greedy people are bad, and they just happen to
love capitalism.

It's called moderation.

~~~
illuminate
"It's called moderation."

If moderation was the natural state of things, we wouldn't have to argue for
it.

~~~
jeremyarussell
Which is why I argue for it. Humans do have the ability to override their
natural way of thinking, until that day is no longer true I guess I'll keep
arguing for the case of moderation.

------
fleitz
“Today, humanity faces a stark choice: save the planet and ditch capitalism,
or save capitalism and ditch the planet.”

Move to North Korea, everyday is buy nothing day and best of all, none of that
horrid capitalism.

~~~
bravoyankee
A culture can stop being capitalistic and consumer-driven without becoming a
fear driven dictatorship.

Do you equate spending money with freedom and civil liberties? Is that the
only way for you and I to be free, is to buy things?

~~~
rfrey
Economic liberty seems to be a precondition for strong civil liberties,
although certainly not sufficient.

Also, class mobility seems to be most likely in a society with high economic
activity, since there is a lot of demand to be filled and therefore the
opportunity to fill it.

~~~
creatrixcordis
Haha mommy when i grow up i want to be the perfect consumer, just like you!

~~~
rfrey
I don't understand your criticism.

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untog
Funny that this is so high up on Hacker News. The first quote on the page:

“Today, humanity faces a stark choice: save the planet and ditch capitalism,
or save capitalism and ditch the planet.”

There won't be too many startup accelerators or funding rounds when we ditch
capitalism, folks. Funny how there was none of this talk on iPhone Launch Day,
either...

~~~
fleitz
But there will be untold millions for those lucky enough to win the political
patronage lottery.

~~~
mseebach
No one is claiming that we can't or shouldn't try to fix the problems with the
system.

------
rizzom5000
Really, the American brand of capitalism isn't the same as European capitalism
or Japanese capitalism. Even within America, there are many different types of
capitalist economies.

While I share Adbuster's disgust with the hordes of zombie sheep lining up to
consume in excessive quantity things that they do not need, I don't think this
has anything to do with Capitalism as an economic philosophy.

~~~
illuminate
"I don't think this has anything to do with Capitalism as an economic
philosophy"

The manner in which Capitalism is implemented and followed is just as
important as abstract philosophy. Deeds, not words.

------
mseebach
The thinly veiled celebration of violence is disgusting. The image from this
poster: [http://www.adbusters.org/content/carnivalesque-rebellion-
liv...](http://www.adbusters.org/content/carnivalesque-rebellion-live)

seems to be a Reuters photo with this caption:

"AVIANO, Italy (Reuters) - A protestor throws a rock at riot police outside
the Aviano Air base in northern Italy Sunday. More than 300 protestors took
part in the demonstration against NATO's air strikes on Yugoslavia. Photo by
Stefano Rellandini"

(found at <http://home.hiwaay.net/~craigg/g4c/NATO-help.htm>)

------
Millennium
You know, I wasn't actually thinking about doing any shopping today. But if
Anonymous and Occupy have gotten on the bandwagon, I think I may just have to
stop by my local Wal-Mart and take advantage of some of those deals.

~~~
fleitz
Occupy is pretty much a product of adbusters. Companies sell consumer goods to
those unable to produce, Adbusters sells consumer ideologies for those unable
to think.

------
Strilanc
You get to feel good about not buying stuff, and then the next day you still
get to buy stuff!

Alright, alright, they do have better ideas for a "delay gratification"
message. Credit card cut-up (pre-commitment) and zombie walks (exposure) sound
like good ideas.

Don't make a day about not doing something negative, make it about doing
something positive. Don't turn off your power for a day, spend a day
installing better insulation so you need less power.

------
jmduke
It's important to read any adbusters content with their context in mind. I
think they produce a lot of interesting content, but their agenda (I don't
mean that to be denigrating) muddles a lot of their arguments.

This article to me makes an important point -- Black Friday has pretty much
descended into self-parody -- but couching it as an anti-capitalism argument
(instead of an anti-consumerism one) ruins the message for me.

~~~
rohern
This is crap reasoning, sorry jmduke. You might as well say that you need to
read the writing of a racist while keeping in mind that he is a racist, so you
should not worry too much when he makes racist statements.

The criticisms that people are positing here are exactly criticisms of the
agenda of Adbusters. The whole thing is about keeping their context in mind
and objecting to it.

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alainbryden
I buy nothing about 95% of the days in a year. I don't get why this is
supposed to make such a difference?

~~~
subleq
This leaves 18 days per year to buy things, each 20 days from the last. Do you
grow your own food, or do you eat only nonperishables?

~~~
alainbryden
I shop for groceries about once per month, to buy food in bulk then freeze
bread, meat and veggies. I grow some veggies in the backyard during the
summer. I'm not the healthiest eater, mostly I just hate shopping. This gives
me 6 misc days to buy gifts for birthdays and things.

I guess this doesn't count jumping on the odd humble indie bundle.

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drivebyacct2
So it's either go nuts and trample people or buy nothing and I must be in debt
because of credit cards?

