
Study indicates mushrooms may be the safest recreational drug - eth0up
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/23/study-hallucinogenic-mushrooms-safest-recreational-drug-lsd
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delegate
True story. Friend of mine takes mushrooms for the first time, has a massive
'bad' trip, sees himself dying and realizes that life is short and fragile and
if he survives the trip, he will make something out of it. Of course he
survived the trip.

Next day (eg. soon) arrives at the conclusion that he's wasting his life
working for an investment bank, quits his high-paying programmer job, invests
most of his savings into bitcoin and starts working on a bitcoin-related
application (I won't name it, because this is a private story), decides it's
his mission in life. This was 4 years ago.

At today's exchange rate, his BTC are worth a couple of million and the app is
currently in beta.

Now of course this is a good story, because a guy took mushrooms and is now a
millionaire, but I suspect that the story could just as likely gone south
(together with BTC's price) so then his actions could have been interpreted as
quite reckless - giving up a good job and investing in 'speculative tech'.

Psychedelics are quite safe physically and even psychologically - however, the
consequences of the decisions taken after a psychedelic 'enlightenment'
experience should also be taken into account.

In other words, know that your life might change dramatically after a powerful
trip - and that includes relationships, career, education choices and so on.

With that said, I still think the revelations themselves are worth it and the
more people have them, the better the world will be as a whole.

~~~
Bakary
You can actually have those very same epiphanies simply by actually taking the
time to think long and hard about what your current circumstances are, what
you've learned about it so far.

~~~
rubyfan
Yeah recreational thinking about your circumstances sounds fun too

~~~
Bakary
I didn't say it was recreational or supposed to be fun. I just wanted to point
out that you don't need to rely on drugs to suddenly understand your life a
little better than you did before.

~~~
mveety
True you don't, but they are easier on some level and give you no real escape
once you commit to taking them. Sitting down and putting the work in is
certainly as effective, but you can bail on committing to that where as there
is no escape from the chemicals once they're in you.

~~~
Bakary
That's a very good point and something I had not considered !

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etjossem
Anecdotal: people who do hallucinogenic mushrooms are way more likely to know
what they're getting into.

The decision to ingest mushrooms isn't a matter of psychological need (as it
sometimes is with alcohol or amphetamines), and it's very rarely made out of
impulse in a social setting (e.g. ecstasy). It is typically a deliberate
choice with the expectation of having a psychedelic experience - complete with
the understanding that it might be a bad trip. You do as much prep work as you
can beforehand to make sure it's comfortable.

Taking care and preparing for the high isn't really baked into the culture of
other drugs in the same way.

~~~
seizethecheese
> The decision to ingest mushrooms isn't a matter of psychological need (as it
> sometimes is with alcohol or amphetamines), and it's very rarely made out of
> impulse in a social setting (e.g. ecstasy).

I've definitely felt pressured into taking mushrooms. It's a very social thing
to do. You need a "sitter" who stays sober which means it makes the most sense
to do in groups.

I also have known many disturbed people who ingest mushrooms frequently to
escape their lives.

~~~
etjossem
> I've definitely felt pressured into taking mushrooms. It's a very social
> thing to do. You need a "sitter" who stays sober

Your mileage may vary! But this is exactly my point: when a group of you get
together to take mushrooms, you recognize the need to have someone sober
around to take care of everyone else and make sure they're safe.

For comparison, let's look at alcohol - you're very lucky if you can find
someone willing to be the designated driver, let alone a group where emphasis
is placed on keeping each other safe. There's even a level of taboo around
slowing down those who are drinking too much.

It doesn't surprise me how many people are hospitalized for alcohol overdose
or related accidents. The culture is very different.

~~~
seizethecheese
I know many people who smoke pot or drink alone, nightly. I know very few who
take mushrooms alone.

~~~
etjossem
I agree, and I think a group setting is generally the more responsible way to
go with any drug. But I don't see the same level of _pressure_ around it (i.e.
to take more or push limits) that I do with alcohol.

Taking care of each other is steeped into the culture, and I wouldn't be
surprised if that's why we see a far lower rate of hospitalization.

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elif
I don't think the study says a single thing about safety.

This was a study on the perception of safety of drugs by unqualified users.
The people who went to the ER because of cannabis would have gone for shrooms
too, they just perceive it as more dangerous and don't take it.

~~~
rch
Shrooms can cause nausea in proportion to the dose, so there's a natural limit
to exposure. You're on your own with THC edibles.

Of course one could get into trouble by guzzling high-potency tea, but the
same could be said for caffeinated tea or alcohol.

~~~
aaron_m04
The nausea doesn't hit you until after you're committed, so it's not self
limiting in that way.

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herbst
Interesting. From the psychological side I found mushrooms to be way less
predictive than LSD. Assuming basic rules are applied to both including safe
dosing.

~~~
xiaoma
Predictive of what?

Edit: I've read studies that found psychological benefits from a single use of
LSD, six months later. Anyone able to comment on whether or not this is true
for mushrooms?

~~~
herbst
probably ment predictable. You are less able to control emotions IMO which CAN
hurt your psychological health (doesnt have to tho)

~~~
ada1981
>> You are less able to control emotions <<

The entire point is to surrender and let go of control. So if you are a person
who lives in a paradigm where emotions are things that need to be controlled,
psychedelic are going to be a stern teacher for your ego.

I'd recommend folks starting with something like Holotropic Breathwork and
learning to surrender to your felt experience without trying to manage or
control it.

------
vivekd
Mushrooms don't sound safe at all, as far as I know mushrooms have to be grown
exactly right or they may develop deadly fungi. I don't know how willing I'd
be to trust an unregulated drug operation to grow my mushrooms properly.

I understand that the risk of deadly contamination also exists with non-
hallucinogenic store-bought mushrooms, however, there is a world of difference
between trusting a regulated business with your potentially deadly food and
trusting a criminal drug gang.

I wonder how much the purported "safety" of mushrooms are just because they
are rarely used. This survey finds that meth and synthetic cannabis are the
most dangerous drugs,and maybe that's more a result of the fact that they are
just so widespread than actual danger.

Also, looking at medical treatment alone might be misleading without looking
at severity of the condition. Contaminated mushrooms can easily result in
death.

Also, I wonder if they even included contaminated mushrooms in the study of
emergency room visits. The article uses the vague sentence:

>“Death from toxicity is almost unheard of with poisoning with more dangerous
fungi being a much greater risk in terms of serious harms.”

This makes me wonder if the study choose not to consider emergency room visits
as a result of contaminated mushrooms.

Sure uncontaminated mushrooms are relatively safe, but given how easily they
can become contaminated and deadly, I would question their reputation as a
"safe drug."

~~~
cbanek
I've never personally heard any stories of "contaminated mushrooms". But there
are other similar risks - like mistaking poisonous mushrooms for magic
mushrooms.

In general, magic mushrooms are either cultivated indoors by someone in a
terrarium and keeping the environment just right. To even grow the mushrooms
(which are fairly weak compared to most other fungi and bacteria) you actually
need to start by sterilizing the substrate, usually by boiling, then you
inoculate with a sterile needle the spores. Overall, this is pretty safe
because pretty much any kind of contamination, the fungi won't fruit (you eat
the fruiting bodies), so there's just not really any mushrooms to give you.

The other way is of course to go mushroom hunting. This is a lot more
dangerous, because there are mushrooms that are poisonous that will straight
up kill you. It can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, especially if
you don't know what you're looking for.

One last thing is your body already kind of knows they are a toxin. Many
people feel ill or sick to their stomach after ingesting them, and some will
throw up. In terms of drug safety, eating things is probably one of the
safest, because your body is always ready to expel bad food. The least safe of
course is probably straight injection, and smoking isn't too great for you
either.

I won't say they're safe, but what really is in this world?

------
pvaldes
Except by the small fact that your heart can decide to stop if you use too
much of it and introduce you in the wonders of Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation
(true story also).

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swayvil
Mushrooms is one of the best things I ever did in my life.

I'm more into meditation these days tho.

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macscam
Being obvious here, but what about pot? Have personally done mushrooms 5 or so
times. and while it can be pretty casual with a small dose, it easily gets
into the realm of somewhat-spiritual meta-thinking (after a few of these
experiences I didnt much desire them anymore) . Similar to LSD in this regard,
and probably not the best thing to mix with alcohol.

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tim333
Got to be careful to get the right sort of mushrooms though
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom)
and not some other stuff.

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gadders
>>Study indicates mushrooms may be the safest recreational drug

PEDs not included in the study.

~~~
TearsInTheRain
Performance enhancing drugs? I wouldn't really classify those as
recreational...

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
Amphetamines are classified as PED's and they most certainly are used for
recreation.

