
Metafilter And The Russian Sex Slaves That Never Were - pdx
http://www.miconian.com/2010/05/23/metafilter-and-the-russian-sex-slaves-that-never-were/
======
ErrantX
Just for the record; I have a couple of friends in New York who also went to
the club after I showed them the thread (of their own volition).

Their report is pretty similar to this guys; except to conclude it is very
much a place to pick up girls for sex as well. One of them is of slavic
origin, can speak Russian and was at one point offered a girl (he believes
because he passed as Russian - the others were not offered at any point).

Once it was clear they were American and were not there after girls they were
treated like it was a normal club.

They point out it wasn't particularly seedy; it was upmarket but definitely
"gang" owned/affiliated (these are guys I know through work; one of them works
on trafficking and prostitution in his professional capacity, so it's a
reasonably expert opinion).

Their conclusion: that the girls were on the edge of one of the lighter
"trafficking" scams, where girls voluntarily go over for short spell with the
promise of work (and often the "nudge wink" suggestion that they could skip
immigration and stay longer if they stay below the radar). What usually
happens is they either get the job promised them, or it "falls through" (like
in this case) and they get given a waitress job for the visa period at a club
like this. All above board.

Then when the visa is almost up it is suggested very strongly that if they
wanted to stay they probably could, but not in a normal (legal) job...

(note: this is all second hand information. I trust my friends experience but
as with anything over the internet.. treat it as unconfirmed :))

~~~
bradleyland
Probably the most balanced and rational sounding explanation I've seen yet.
The problem is, it's not very exciting, so everyone ignores it.

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callahad
While it's always good to critically examine information, Bingo, the author of
the linked post, repeatedly adopted a combative, hyperbolic tone that only
served to further derail the conversation, rather than restore moderation and
critical thought. After finding few sympathizers in the Metafilter threads, he
moved his critiques off-site and onto his own blog.

That's all well and good, but it's worth knowing that his perception of the
events represents an extreme minority amongst the site's regular readership.
Suffice to say, both the NYPD and an employee of the State Department directly
involved in human trafficking cases believed that the situation was
sufficiently dubious to warrant intervening.

If you're looking for a more moderate summary of events, Newsweek had a fairly
decent overview: [http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-human-
condition/2010/05/21...](http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-human-
condition/2010/05/21/exclusive-one-of-the-heroes-behind-the-metafilter-human-
trafficking-rescue-speaks-out.html)

If you have the time, I'd highly recommend reading the original Ask Metafilter
and Metatalk threads. Both were developing concurrently, so it's best to
alternate reading a few posts in each. Just watch the timestamps to stay
synchronized.

~~~
jerf
"Suffice to say, both the NYPD and an employee of the State Department
directly involved in human trafficking cases believed that the situation was
sufficiently dubious to warrant intervening."

Before or after it became A Thing?

If they were involved before anybody on MeFi heard about it, I'll accept that
as evidence. If it occurred after, unfortunately it is completely plausible
that these agencies decided they must be seen to Do Something (TM). I mean
these "ifs" because I honestly don't know which is which, and am curious,
because if it is established that they were interested first than that's
pretty strong evidence.

~~~
Vivtek
Pollomacho is a MeFite who works at State in the human trafficking department.
He was involved in the case as soon as he heard about it, and stated quite
clearly that it was nice to be able to help somebody in this situation
_before_ two or three months had passed. Bingo omits this entirely, because
Bingo thought it would be cool to visit this club and come back and say how
histrionic MeFites were being.

Now, from what Pollomacho said later, he talked to the girls and there was
information he didn't feel free to share (personal in nature) that indicated
very, very strongly to him that this was in fact a human trafficking case, and
as he is not known to be a twit in other instances, I'm inclined to take him
at his word.

~~~
jerf
Thank you. That is a compelling argument.

I, too, am not a big fan of vague "smart authorities of an unspecified nature
are on it, shut up" assertions, so if you heard a note of skepticism in my
original post, yes, it was there. But specific "this specific experienced
authority with years of experience in this field was concerned and directly
replied that it was a problem" can be compelling. I am particularly impressed
by the fact this person fed back directly, and not through a press release.

~~~
Vivtek
Well, the fact that the specific experienced authority is a well-known poster
on Metafilter (by which I mean, I already knew his name and associate it
favorably with well-considered commentary) helped a lot. I'm not convinced the
NYPD was really in control of the situation, for instance. Pollomacho, though,
I trust. I had no idea he did this for a living. That was a pretty cool bonus.

------
alxp
Ugh this guy has developed a very selective reading of the thread in question
and refusing to accept things told to him by the people actually involved
because they couldn't "prove" what they were saying. At this point for this
version of what happened to be true it would require active conspiracy on the
part of all involved to keep it going. Knowing when to admit you were wrong
and let go is truly a blessing.

~~~
peterwwillis
The line between active conspiracy and everyone just going along with
something because they're easily lead or prefer to believe something a certain
way is probably thinner than you imagine.

Is The Bible a conspiracy? Is everyone in Christianity secretly in on it? Or
are they just going along with it because they like the idea? I don't know
about you, but I go for the free cookies & coffee after the service.

~~~
callahad
The situation, as presented, was sufficiently dubious as to warrant the
attention of both the NYPD and the State Department. I'm willing to trust
their judgment.

------
metamemetics
Remind anyone of this?

> _Dear Reddit: Yesterday a user posted soliciting donations for a users wifes
> cancer treatment. I (and others) claimed it was fake. I was wrong, she does
> have cancer and now users are harassing the family._

[http://en.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/bup53/dear_reddit...](http://en.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/bup53/dear_reddit_yesterday_a_user_posted_soliciting/)

------
jackfoxy
Not about this article in particular, but at a meta-level, I want to give an
up-vote to the media criticism, both postings and dissections in the comments
on HN; of which, this post and the comments is a good example. Some may say it
clutters-up the news postings and is off topic (and they have a point). It
might be good if postings could be divided into three categories, "pure" HN,
media, and other general.

------
WiseWeasel
I'd say that the narrative that the women knew what they were getting
themselves into, given their behavior in the original story, does seem to make
more sense to me. However, that doesn't make it any less commendable that they
may have been given an at least temporary reprieve from the abuse of human
trafficking and prostitution. What they choose to do with it is now their
decision to make.

~~~
Vivtek
Oh, come on, they're like 18 years old and are going to the United States!
They still think they're immortal, and even if they anticipate that there
might be some sex involved, they think they'd be glamor stars.

Instead, they'd be crack junkies for a couple of years, and thrown out into
the alley when they were used up, and there is _no way in hell_ that any
18-year-old - or 30-year-old - would "know what they were getting themselves
into". If that were the case, this would never happen to anybody. That's the
pernicious nature of human trafficking in the first place.

~~~
WiseWeasel
The post's author was implying that they may have grown up in an environment
where they really did know what to expect, and I'd agree that it is a
possibility, as uncomfortable as that may be to ponder. Who knows what these
particular 18-year-olds were expecting; just because you may have been naive
about the world's seedy underbelly at 18 doesn't mean everyone else must have
been. It's easy for us to fall into a cultural narrative specific to our
community, and believe that it must be the same for everyone else.

~~~
Vivtek
Sure, because _Russian_ chicks _always_ expect to be crack whores by the time
they're 22. Right. They knew exactly what they were getting into, so you don't
need to worry about it - they're only Russian, after all, where this sort of
thing happens every day.

WiseWeasel, the post's author is wrong. My wife is Eastern European, and I can
assure you that Russian 18-year-olds are just as stupid when it comes to life
risk as anybody else.

------
intellectronica
Thank God there were no nazis, terrorists or pedophiles involved.

------
georgieporgie
This whole thing sort of reminds me of when all those Everquest (I think)
players stood around online to form a virtual flag after September 11th...

