
Changes to my life as a result of just four weeks of daily meditation - philipkd
http://philosophistry.com/archives/2011/02/benefits-of-meditation.html
======
papaf
As a counter to this I have stopped daily meditation (2 hours a day Vipassana)
after about 7 years of practice because I hit a rut where it didn't seem to be
improving things. I certainly remained calm through all the years but cannot
honestly say that it made me a happier person.

I was certainly content with the results at first but after much serious
practice I found it less and less effective. I'd recommend most people to try
serious meditation but think that its important to manage expectations - a
tiny proportion of Westerners that start with meditation feel enough benefit
to continue it for the following years.

In my own experience, Yoga had more noticeable effects and a better 'buzz' -
this as someone that also gave up Yoga a few years ago. The advantage of Yoga
is that you also feel healthy. I hope fight off my current laziness and
restart Yoga again.

~~~
dmm
If a person lifted weights for 7 years and never became stronger I would guess
he was doing it wrong[lifting too much, lifting too little, not increasing
intensity, etc]. If a person meditates for 7 years and can sees no effect...

~~~
krschultz
Lifting weights with the proper diet will give results. That is a biological
fact.

Is mediating leading to a better life a scientific fact?

~~~
runjake
An important question and I'm not sure why you were downvoted into oblivion:

Yes.

Quick link: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation>

~~~
chalst
There's a lot of research results on mindfulness meditation not covered in the
WP article, and WP doesn't cover the methodology well.

Baer (2003) is, I think, the most highly cited survey of the theoretical &
empirical evidence (not cited by the WP article), and has a good historical
overview of research. The conclusion states that effects are comparable for
depressive patients to cognitive behavioural therapy, whose effectiveness as a
therapy for depression is well-established (and incidentally, much more
effective than Prozac). The effectiveness for relief of distress from chronic
pain is also attested.

Kabat-Zinn, cited by Baer, is probably the most accessible scientist writing
for a popular audience on this.

\---------- Reference

Ruth Baer (2003) _Mindfulness training as a clinical intervention: A
conceptual and empirical review_
<http://www.wisebrain.org/papers/MindfulnessPsyTx.pdf>

------
eelco
The book the article links to in the end, Mindfullness in plain English is
also freely available online (and as a download):
<http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html>

~~~
sh1mmer
One thing that threw me a little when I read _Mindfulness in Plain English_
the first time was how they describe following your breathing in Vipassana.

There are a number of methods people use including the one mentioned in the
book, observing the breath at the nostrils, and any of them are ok. I
personally find the chest and throat works best for me.

Another thing I found hugely helpful getting started (other than finding a
sangha) was getting a sense of body. When you start to sit just feel your
body, is it heavy, energetic, etc. Feel places your body is touching, the
floor, the chair, etc and then slowly focus in on your breath.

A final piece of advice, try not to meditate on pain if you can help it. When
you first start out sitting will probably hurt (that doesn't mean you should
fidget or ignore it). However meditating on pain is actually pretty easy.
You'll quickly realise that it makes everything else harder to meditate on
because it is extremely intense so you less sensitive to other things. The
solution is to spend a little time making sure you are sitting right or
spending some session in seated meditation.

Contact details are on my profile. Feel free to ask me any questions. I've
been practicing Theravada and Vipassana for a while.

~~~
Deestan
> spending some session in seated meditation.

First I misread this as "sedated meditation", which had me wondering: Does
moderate alcoholic influence impair or improve a meditation session?

I know it may sound weird, but I find it tremendously easier to concentrate on
and _really understand_ heavy mathematical material after a glass of whisky or
two.

~~~
sh1mmer
It makes it a lot harder, a light dusting of caffeine can be helpful though.

The purpose of vipassana meditation is "awareness" and alcohol really gets in
the way of that because it makes it hard to focus. This kind of meditation is
an activity.

------
mhartl
I recently tried Natural Stress Relief (NSR) meditation per Alex Payne's
suggestion (<http://al3x.net/2010/09/07/startup-health.html>). The technique
requires carving out around twenty minutes for meditation twice a day (morning
and evening). Even with a schedule as flexible as mine (i.e., _extremely_
flexible), I found this virtually impossible to maintain; forty minutes a day
may not sound like much, but it is, especially since it has to happen at
specific times (before meals, not before bed, etc.). For example, I work much
better if I eat within 30 minutes of waking; since (according to NSR) you're
not supposed to eat before meditating, that leaves almost no slack in my
morning schedule. It's also incredibly easy to forget to meditate until an
hour before you have to be somewhere, and then you have to (say) shower,
dress, eat, _and_ meditate in order to keep up with the program. (Actually,
per the eating rule, you would have to meditate and then shower & eat. And
possibly be late to your thing.) And you know how hackers operate on the
Maker's Schedule? For me, meditation became one of those things that breaks
big chunks of time in two. Not good.

NSR emphasizes the importance of doing two sessions _every day_. After a
couple of weeks on the program, I found that the stress of scheduling the
meditation, combined with the stress of missing the occasional session (and
hence, horror of horrors, _not following the program_ ), completely
overwhelmed any stress-relieving benefits from the practice. I abandoned it
within a month.

I'm not sharing this experience to show how much meditation sucks; I'm
inclined to believe those who say meditation works wonders for them. I'd
appreciate some advice from those who have faced and overcome the problems
I've described—if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

~~~
Psyonic
So try once a day? Don't worry so much about the scheduling? Meditate for 20
minutes if you can, 1 minute if that's all you have? It sounds like you got
off on the wrong foot. A big part of meditating is learning to accept without
judgement, and your post is full of you judging yourself.

~~~
mhartl
Thanks for the advice. I'm not judging myself, I'm judging the system—the NSR
manual is stern in its warnings not to deviate from the program. But perhaps a
meditation system more flexible than NSR is worth giving a try.

~~~
Psyonic
Interesting. I am not familiar with NSR, so I won't speak to it, but the
meditation I have learned is much more flexible. There are some links in this
thread that would probably prove valuable, but I'd encourage to try and find
another practice. I know it helped me to start with other people.

------
topherjaynes
I meditated for the throughout grad school to keep my sanity, but slowly
transitioned into running with no music and no talking if I am running in a
group as my form of meditation. Basically I combined my mediation time with my
running time. It wasn't a conscious change, but I found that actively not
thinking during long (13 mile+)runs gave me the mental benefits of meditating
(focus, relaxation, spurred creativity) but also gave me the benefits of being
an active runner.

You might say how can you focus on not thinking during a rain, well like
anything it takes practice--it won't happen over night.

~~~
aik
I've attempted running and meditating. So far I haven't figured it out. Lately
instead and towards the end of my jog I start walking earlier and meditate
during the walk a few minutes before reaching home. Seems easier for now
anyway. Building up that capability has also allowed me to have effective de-
stress/meditating walking sessions during the working hours.

~~~
kirse
Just as a quick tip (from someone who has run for about 20 years now)... What
"meditating" just means is keeping your focus on a given
thought/feeling/whatever... so it truly can be _anything_... whether it's
music, running, a concept like love, the present, etc... you'll get the same
root benefit, which is a capability to direct your focus. Obviously the
secondary benefits come from the type of meditation you're doing.

When you run, you're usually not trying to focus on a thought in your head
(although you can)... usually you're focused on the present experience - the
pain, the pleasure, the runners high, the beauty of nature around you, etc.

However, any true runner here will tell you the thing that brings the greatest
mental focus is pain. We LOVE pain. The greater the pain, the greater the
pleasure. It's odd, but the more pain you experience the more you have to use
every ounce of mental energy and focus (i.e. meditation) to overcome it.

That's why my easy runs almost always result in me picking up the pace and
murdering the second half as compared to the first... There's something I just
love about the pain and focus. Same with why when I've had a stressful day the
first thing I want to do is just pound out a blistering pace on a treadmill.
The pain gets your focus off everything else.

We runners are insane though, so if you're just into jogging, I'd suggest
focusing on the beauty of nature and the present. When I manage to stick to a
jog, usually I use it to just reflect on all that is good, thanking God just
to be alive, for nature, etc... Helps to have existing cardio training so you
can talk to yourself while jogging. If you do push the pace and get tired or
feel pain, change it to a repetitive positive thought track like "I can do it"
or something. Usually that's kinda in beat to my steps too. Each step closer
you ultimately realize you can, in fact, do it! Feels great.

------
Quiark
I've been meditating for about the same time according to the instructions at
audiodharma. I'm not sure it was _that_ beneficial for me. Maybe I'm doing
something wrong. Maybe I already acquired some of the world-views he
describes. I'm a pretty calm person overall, not driven by emotion very much.

I do feel better about a breakup I had some time ago, but that might simply be
because enough time has passed. Anyway in a moment of emotional pain, I
concentrate on my breathing and close my eyes which puts me in meditation mode
(because I got used to it) and I'm more or less able to remove thoughts about
the pain and after I while I start thinking about something different and I do
feel better. Sometimes when I really manage to clear my mind and think of
nothing, it feels good. Partly because I'm glad I managed to do that :) In
general, I must agree that the idea of being mindful of the present moment and
not indulging into fantasies about the past or future are a good idea.

But still it's hard to find the 20 minutes a day. I might even say that
meditation is a harder test for your willpower than physical excercise. Not to
say that the 20 minutes are pretty boring, in the beginning anyway.

EDIT: So I'm a little confused about the benefits of meditation. If anyone
more experienced has any tips, please share your ideas. Also, I'm probably
going to visit a local buddhism center.

------
enduser
I highly recommend "I Am That" by Nisargadatta Maharaj for anyone who has been
meditating for a while and is looking for some orientation in the face of
changing reality. "I Am That" is a pure, direct discussion on understanding
the nature of reality, with no dogma, no particular Hindu leaning other than
some of the language used.

edit: PDF: <http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/I_Am_That.pdf>

~~~
rhizome
_a pure, direct discussion on understanding the nature of reality, with no
dogma_

i don't mean to open a can of worms, but these two statements conflict with
each other.

~~~
enduser
if a discourse is based purely on direct experience (evidence) and not at all
on authoritatively settled doctrine, i feel comfortable saying "with no
dogma". Maharaj does not refer to any teachings or doctrine other than being
instructed by his teacher to let go of all of the illusions attached to the
concept "I am".

His questioners in the book do sometimes bring up doctrine from their personal
history, but Maharaj always responds directly from experience of reality.

~~~
rhizome
I appreciate that, but my point is more that the assertion that reality has a
nature at all is dogmatic. This may be an issue more with your description
than the actual teachings, though, which is fine. I'm not saying anything is
worthless here. :)

~~~
jemfinch
Insofar as words have meaning, reality has a nature. That's not dogmatic,
that's simply true.

~~~
rhizome
Worms have emerged, so I'm leaving well enough alone.

------
mdink
Actually I also have a question. One of the main reasons that I wish to start
meditating is to stop being so negative about BS stuff. I hear things on the
news, get cut off in traffic, shit breaks at home, have to pay unexpected
bills and I tend to get bitter. I need to just CHILL the F OUT. I am not sure
if you can relate to this, but I would be curious to hear anything that might
be a motivator to use meditation to decrease negativity.

~~~
gte910h
There are multiple types of meditation.

Some are about introspecting about ideas, others are about letting go of them
and focusing on a simple task (counting, breathing, flames, whatever).

Some of the latter type can really help with that stuff you are worrying
about, as you will get better at removing yourself from that stuff.

Even though I last regularly meditated over a decade ago, I can still do the
"just let it go" trick usually. Helps tons

Non aff link to book that talks about lots of techniques. I did the counting
to 4 one: [http://www.amazon.com/How-Meditate-Self-Discovery-
Lawrence-L...](http://www.amazon.com/How-Meditate-Self-Discovery-Lawrence-
LeShan/dp/0316880620)

------
ccarpenterg
Why not boxing or exercising? It's healthier. I do 60 sit-ups and 50 push-ups
every morning before breakfast. It definitely changed my life.

~~~
Evgeny
Boxing as in being repeatedly hit in the head with considerable strength? I
have my doubts about this being a healthy lifestyle, but I would be interested
to see statistics on longevity among people who were active boxers compared to
the rest of population.

~~~
dustyreagan
I've thought about picking up boxing. It seems like the desire to not be hit
in the face would be good motivation to exercise regularly between matches.
Like you though, I'm a bit worried about the risk of concussion and having my
nose broken, and thus haven't taken the plunge.

~~~
bmelton
I might recommend something like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu instead.

It definitely can cause physical pain, but concussion generally isn't
something you worry about with BJJ. That isn't to say that it's impossible,
but I do believe the risk is SIGNIFICANTLY lower.

Arguably, BJJ works as a better self-defense art than boxing as well, though
for it to be truly effective, you generally pair it with a striking art.

------
gohat
He doesn't spend much time visiting Reddit anymore - except to submit articles
saying he doesn't.

~~~
philipkd
I find I go directly to subreddits I like now, like r/wikipedia or r/cogsci

I still surf the Internet, but it's more focused, and less like bodysurfing
through shit.

------
rmundo
I've read so much writing on meditation from Tibetan monks getting MRI scans
to finding peace and becoming ready for love in Bali. This one is by far the
most compelling argument I've read. And if it can start having an effect in
four short weeks, there's no reason not to give it a try.

------
hellodude129
In my experience people who are very much into meditation are those people who
are still seeking the holy grail of how to feel better about life and about
themselves, people who have experienced a lot of pain in their lives or
periods of depression. Meditation won't solve that.

~~~
heyitsnick
\- In my experience this isn't the case at all. Everyone I know drawn to
meditation wasn't due to periods of depression nor pain in their lives but for
a variety of other reasons which pretty much all come down for personal
development.

\- Meditation is used in clinical situations specifically for paid and stress
reduction. If you want sources for this there's of citations on the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation>

~~~
haploid
Stress reduction? I have a novel idea for stress reduction: Stop stressing.
Are you going to die tomorrow? No? Then settle down and stop worrying.

I tell this to everyone I know who "suffers" from stress, and I get some
variation on the same response, "it's not that easy for me".

Actually, it is easy. It's 2011. Predators aren't chasing you across the
savannah. You're not more than 3 days away from a source of potable water.
You're not more than 7 days away from safe, nutritious, calorie dense food.
You aren't in immediate danger of being washed away in a flood or dying of
heatstroke in the desert or freezing to death.

Realize that your "stress" is so far removed from its genetic origins as to be
laughable, realize how good you really have it, and enjoy life.

~~~
achompas
This is genuinely a terrible approach for anyone suffering from
depression/anxiety.

If we could all pull the Louis CK approach ("everything is great but no one is
happy") we would. Unfortunately those mired in depression/anxiety cannot see
the forest for the trees...otherwise they wouldn't be dealing with their
problems.

EDIT: shit, totally meant to downvote you. Enjoy the free karma.

------
mdink
This is really interesting - thanks for posting. I have a goal this year to
meditate for 3 weeks straight and have not started yet. Very inspiring.

~~~
locopati
What's stopping you?

~~~
mdink
This is going to sound so lame, but... time. My goal was to do it the "right
way" and thus I wanted to get through these:
<http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/> before I started. Perhaps I
should just read something and jump in....

~~~
ehsanul
I've been listening to those talks.

They're only about an hour to 1.5 hours long, and there's only 6 of them. They
are supposed to be spread over a 6 week period. So every week for six weeks,
you need to find an hour to spend listening to the talk for that week.

You will be meditating during part of the talk. Other days, you will meditate
20-30 minutes. This is not a large time commitment, and since you're on HN,
I'm guessing you'd be able to manage.

Good luck! The first two talks have been pretty nice so far.

~~~
shadowpwner
Is it similar to self-hypnosis CDs?

------
dfan
The main thing I noticed from meditating for a month was that my posture got a
lot better. That alone made it worth it.

------
kunley
Interesting.

Who was/is your meditation teacher? I think I missed it from the article.

~~~
philipkd
End of the article refers to a book Mindfulness in Plain English, which you
can also read for free: <http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html>

~~~
kunley
I don't mind to bash your enthusiasm in any way and I'm happy of your already
gained insights, but i think you should know that in the long term it may be
counterproductive or even dangerous to practice such kind of meditation
without direct guidance from a teacher.

------
mromano
thanks for this reminder. I've witnessed good things from meditation as well
but find it very difficult to do. I am inspired to try again.

------
tfs
What meditation technique(s) do you use?

------
haploid
This sounds like an excellent use of one's time. I wonder if the health
benefits of "meditation" are as significant as those of "hatha yoga",
"chiropractic", or any other such Eastern mystic pseudoscientific
charlatanism.

Why spend 30 minutes a day volunteering, working, or doing something else to
benefit humanity, when you can spend it sitting on a pillow, indulging
yourself in an act of inducing the all-powerful placebo effect to convince
yourself that all the "stress" of an upper middle class American lifestyle can
be magically washed away by breathing and thinking of fat bronze statues and
waterfalls?

Hope these amazing changes to your life continue.

~~~
davidchua
The whole point about meditation is about self-reflection. Yes, you may argue
that comparing meditation with volunteering, the former would seem like a
complete waste of time with no benefit to society, but its only because you're
looking at it in one-dimension.

If the OP is able to turn his life around, become calmer, more understanding
and more compassionate, his actions and interactions in the physical world
would have an impact to all those around him and create a multiplier effect
that is much more effective in the long run than just pure volunteering.

~~~
jongraehl
True, volunteering isn't usually very effective (except at creating emotional
reward), compared to working and donating effectively.

------
sfphotoarts
What has become of my beloved HN? Doesn't a devout 20 minutes three times a
day on HN count as meditation.

Next we'll be discussing horoscopes...

