
The human-powered helicopter challenge - leonardRenter
http://www.humansinvent.com/#!/11975/the-human-powered-helicopter-challenge/
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davidw
Without any disrespect to the pilot, if they're close, why don't they get a
slightly faster person to pilot it?

Their elite racing cyclist (according to the bio page) is this guy:
<https://www.usacycling.org/results/?compid=286471>

Not bad at all: it takes a _lot_ of time and dedication to race at that level
and also having a life outside racing. However, you could probably improve on
his strength to weight ratio by getting a professional cyclist. For instance,
in this hill climb time-trial, he came in over a half a minute down from the
guy who won his category, in a race of under 5 minutes:

<https://www.usacycling.org/results/?permit=2012-2687>

That kind of event is fairly similar to the kind of effort getting the
helicopter off the ground entails: a short effort where, due to the climbing,
weight is against you.

These guys, for instance, got a cyclist who had been in the olympics:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Daedalus>

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gilrain
The team is likely made up of humans who may have formed emotional attachment
to the project and wish to complete it alongside their long-time teammates.

~~~
smackfu
Not to mention the assumption that this is not the best cyclist who:

* will work for free

* is local

* is reliable and not an asshole

* would rather do this than actually cycling

This is a long-term challenge, where they have been getting progressively
better for months and years. It's not like they just built the machine and
then need a pilot for a day.

~~~
davidw
My guess is that the "limiting factor" is finding someone associated with the
engineering program at that university. They could probably find a local racer
that met the above qualifications without too much trouble.

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user24
> Flying the aircraft requires a lot of energy. Gore says, “If we’re going all
> out, I’m pretty much drained by the end of a minute and a half

Seems like this isn't a helicopter, more a human-powered-helicopter-challenge-
winning-machine.

I mean, if it can't fly for more than 90 seconds it might technically pass the
requirements but is it in the spirit of the prize?

~~~
melling
Did we add to the corpus of human knowledge from people trying to win the
challenge? I'm guessing we got something for the $250,000 prize money. There
are larger Kickstarter projects.

Someone should start another prize for 3 minutes.

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netcan
You can probably get to 3 minutes by improving the human.

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melling
Ok, I was simply throwing out the idea of putting up the next challenge.
Consider my suggestion the "straw man proposal."

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_proposal>

~~~
netcan
A straw man would work well if he was strong enough.

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seanalltogether
So how useful is pedaling a wheel with your upper arms? It seems like such an
awkward and weak motion. Would a push/pull action lose too much energy trying
to convert it into rotational power?

~~~
mtrimpe
I'm still surprised that they use _only_ legs and arms.

Intuitively I'd expect some form of curling up into a squat and extending back
out to be able to capture the most energy from a human body.

~~~
_fs
True, but if they managed to work this out, I don't think you want to be
flying through the air using an anaerobic exercise to keep you aloft. What
happens when you are exhausted after 15 squats? Making it aerobic allows for
longer flight

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mtrimpe
I never considered that. So essentially once you go fully aerobic which / how
many muscles you use isn't that relevant anymore.

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gnu8
Why don't they add another pilot? 2x the power for less than double the
weight.

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gboudrias
Or the logical conclusion: 20 pilots, forming the world's first flying galley!

~~~
gnu8
The free rider problem would probably come in to play and make that
impractical. But with two, both pilots must pedal or the craft would
experience a gentle decent to the ground.

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oiuyt1
Given the span of the rotors and distance from the ground, it looks as if they
have designed it specifically to fly in ground effect, which puts a pretty low
ceiling on it.

It also means they have more of a ground effect craft than a helicopter. We'll
call it a RIG (Rotor in Ground-effect) as opposed to WIG craft as we did for
the fixed wing Russian varriant. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTWWsh6iGA>

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js2
A story about the team's efforts from back in Oct last year:

[http://www.npr.org/2012/10/14/160670295/flight-club-human-
po...](http://www.npr.org/2012/10/14/160670295/flight-club-human-powered-
helicopter)

The problem they had then was keeping the helicopter from drifting outside the
10 meter box. I don't see what they've done since then to help with that
problem.

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leoh
Hmm. Looking at the cyclist, his legs aren't fully extended on each down-
stroke (akin to having the seat too low on your bicycle). They could get a lot
more power out of each stroke if the cyclist could extend her or his legs
fully.

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calinet6
Holy bejesus the <strike>lined diagonal background</strike>yellow sidebar
contrast makes the text pulsate when I read... poor design decision. Going to
have to tell someone about that.

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Thiz
Ignorant here, handle with care.

Is it possible to use pedaling force in a turbine? I'd like to try different
approaches just for curiosity.

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johngalt
Technically the definition of a turbine means something powered by a working
fluid or gas. So it's akin to asking 'could we have a human powered windmill?'
By definition you can't.

Assuming you mean something along the lines of a small shrouded propeller.
There are aerodynamics at work here that involve trade-offs. Generally larger
slower props are more efficient at low speeds.

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swayvil
Flywheel? It could be a flywheel you spend all week pedaling up to speed with
human power.

