
After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed - paulpauper
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/after-15-years-the-pirate-bay-still-cant-be-killed
======
zeptomu
Although I am a customer of some streaming services (they are convenient and
have good and bad stuff), it is often nice to just get a file for a specific
song or movie - and that is _most_ convenient via torrenting.

People _do_ sign up for streaming services, but not for like, 10. Furthermore
torrenting got really convenient and is very fast with adequate Internet
(let's say 10MByte/s), so you get a decent quality movie in under 5 minutes
(obviously only if there are enough seeders - but the availability of torrents
completely dwarfs the availability of streaming providers - if it's really
unpopular and maybe a little bit older you just won't find it on streaming
services).

Beside the fact that BitTorrent is an interesting protocol in itself, imagine
just how much simpler Netflix or Spotify could be implemented, if we wouldn't
_stream_ DRM encrypted blobs, but download files? You just need many big fat
file-servers and put your media there - if we wouldn't have DRM (AFAIK all
streaming providers enforce DRM), this is technically a solved problem.

~~~
zbobet2012
As a streaming industry software engineer: File based streaming is done not
for DRM but because of distribution cost and user experience. A segmented ABR
video delivery massively decreases CDN costs (which is why Youtube, which is
drm free does it). Video startup times, seek times, thumbnail scrubbing, fast
forward, clip previews, ad insertion and many other things don't work in a
file based experience.

In addition subtitles, secondary audio, descriptive video, and multi-view
video etc. are all things which we mandate by law which do not work well in a
file base expierenced.

Peer to peer as a distribution method is not only know, but there are plenty
of providers that use peer to peer like streaming setups (see
[https://streamroot.io/streamroot-dna/](https://streamroot.io/streamroot-
dna/)). You may be using something like BitTorrent and _not even know it_.

Distribution is 1/10th the story and DRM is only a small part of it as well.
BitTorrent does nothing to solve the other 9/10ths and removing DRM doesn't
either.

~~~
mdorazio
> Video startup times, seek times, thumbnail scrubbing, fast forward, clip
> previews, ad insertion and many other things don't work in a file based
> experience.

Not a single one of these things is true. In fact, file-based delivery offers
a _superior_ experience in several of them with proper implementation.
Streaming is popular because it lowers distribution costs, decreases piracy,
and allows rights holders to pull content whenever they want.

Personally, I hate streaming. Buffering sucks. Bitrates suck. Audio quality
sucks. Never knowing how long something I like will actually be available
sucks. It's just an all-around bad experience if you care about your media.

~~~
zbobet2012
Video startup times are kept low in modern clients by starting at low bitrates
and then seamless adaptation up. This is very important for advertising
companies, social media, live streams, etc. Every second of startup time cost
massive user loss in live streaming (this is well researched and documented).
Additionally streaming protocols (HLS/DASH) force files to be encoded such
that a full download is not required for a decode to happen. This is not a
requirement (and pretty rare unless you know what you are doing with an
encoder) for file based workflows.

Fast forward for low power clients relies on an "iframe only" track as there
decoders can't do many x realtime decode. This is not present in modern file
based work flows.

Seeks use the same startup/segmentation requirements as video startup.

Thumbnail scrubbing requires a thumbnail track and is not supported by file
based workflows at all.

Clip previews on sites load at low resolution/bitrates and can be poped up to
"full resolution" via ABR. Doing a preview of 10x 4k streams without abr
wouldn't work even on a modern gaming rig.

I'd love to hear how you'd do SSAI on top of a file based workflow.

You could of course build a "file based" implementation that had all of these
features, but you would just be rebuilding DASH or HLS.

~~~
ryantriangles
Popular video file players have supported generating iframe tracks for fast
forwarding and thumbnail scrubbing for many years now, is there something
about the way eg MPCBE and PotPlayer operate that is somehow unreasonable?

~~~
zbobet2012
It's terrible performance on a power limited devices. It either burns up your
battery or is unreasonably slow. Particularly when the source stream is high
resolution or complexity.

~~~
Rychard
Sure, but if you have the file, you could generate these ahead of time on a
more powerful machine.

At any rate, I don't think users would balk at being given a choice.

~~~
afiori
> You could of course build a "file based" implementation that had all of
> these features, but you would just be rebuilding DASH or HLS.

------
tudorconstantin
Maybe the society has to finally adapt & embrace to the way things are going
in the last 20 years: music stars to earn their money in the concerts they
sold out due to "piracy" and not from selling CDs, movie stars from royalties
paid by subscribers of Netflix and HBO and other such services, or even
monetize their popularity directly from endorsing products.

Software developers seem to be the first to adapt: you can't pirate a SaaS or
a cloud. One can try and copy it, but will be always behind the first moved
and the original creator, because they always seem to have good ideas.

Equating IP with real estate is bad for the society: why would someone keep
producing and keep performing if they made a hit with a song, or a movie, or a
game?

~~~
cc81
Do people really pirate music much anymore? It feels that Spotify and similar
services won over piracy except in a few edge cases.

~~~
JudgeWapner
I have _terabytes_ of pirated music....that I hardly ever listen to because
it's too much work to load up the player and find something to play. I much
prefer google play, with their algorithms for finding new music for me,
instead of me having to hunt for it. Looking at multi-terabyte directories and
trying to decide what to listen to is just overwhelming. Google Play has
introduced me to several new artists and a couple entire genre's of music that
I would have never otherwise found, and $15/mo is well worth it.

~~~
PorterDuff
It's funny how quantity has a lack of quality all it's own.

My own take for getting surprised is to check out (usually) European jazz
radio stations on internet radio.

~~~
JudgeWapner
exactly. Before I had google play I'd end up playing from the same set or
leaving off with the same directory that I had listened to before. I'm also a
fan of XM radio because while driving it's too much work to pull up the phone
and start a playlist, and to an extent I do like the (one-sided) human
"contact" of having the DJ announce the songs and make occasional chatter
(even if I begrudgingly complain about it sometimes). I tried Radio Garden [1]
but found myself _still_ listening to top-40 adult contemporary crap.

[1] [https://radio.garden/](https://radio.garden/)

------
koonsolo
I was looking on how to legally watch Game of Thrones here in Belgium. It's
pretty complex to figure this all out.

Basically you got to have a set-top box of at least 54 euros/month, and add 12
euro's extra to watch certain extra shows and movies (which includes Game of
Thrones).

I found a solution without set-top box, but then you stream it on your mobile
phone, and somehow need to remotely show it on your TV. This solution is 100
euros/month since it includes internet, tv, mobile provider, etc.

So yeah... I have Netflix, I have Spotify. I never need to download MP3's
since they are all available on Spotify.

For movies and tv.... yeah...

And then people wonder why torrents are still so popular? Because it's the
most convenient, not because it's free.

~~~
rvschuilenburg
In The Netherlands we have 1 cable provider that has Game of Thrones. So
you're either subscribed to that provider, or you're out of luck.

~~~
mcv
It used to be that more internet/TV providers offered HBO, but apparently one
bought exclusive rights hoping everybody would switch to them. I certainly
didn't.

As for Pirate Buy, it's blocked in Netherland, so Kickass Torrents seems to be
the place to go these days.

~~~
speleding
Pirate bay is blocked in the Netherlands, but just Google "pirate proxy" to
see about two dozen sites that give you access to the pirate bay. These sites
make money from inserting ads into the page while you view the pirate bay
through their proxy, but you can access it just fine. (Some of them do insert
a ridiculous number of ads, mostly for adult content)

------
__david__
I once attended a SMPTE meeting at the Directors Guild building, where the
wifi ssid was "MPAA". I took out my laptop to follow along with the specs
under discussion and half way through the meeting I noticed that I had
accidentally left my torrent app open and was seeding movie torrents. Whoops!
:-)

~~~
acl777
oooh - so you were "honeypotting" some torrents, eh?! :-)

------
Insanity
I stopped torrenting a long time ago. But if the media streaming market shards
too much I would start again.

~~~
duxup
I feel like enough is available now that I don't need to.

The system still sucks but effectively there is enough available to keep me
going.

In the meantime if some media isn't convenient for me to consume, it is off my
radar. I don't don't bother either way.

~~~
zanny
This is in some ways good for piracy. During the 2000s the MAFIAA was heavily
invested in their war on sharing sites and protocols because of how popular
they were, but now with streaming taking a substantial chunk of that casual
pirate audience theres less profit incentive in pushing a lot of prosecution.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It seems like the courts eventually came around to a more just way of thinking
too, for example, they stopped treating the partial uploading of a single song
as if the person had stolen the entire value of that song from the publishers.

------
krtkush
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTOKXCEwo_8&t=2355s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTOKXCEwo_8&t=2355s)

For anyone who has not seen the documentary, yet. One of my favourites.

~~~
acl777
is there a torrent for this?? :-)

~~~
kuroguro
ofc :)
[https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/8118457/TPB.AFK.2013.1080p....](https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/8118457/TPB.AFK.2013.1080p.h264-SimonKlose)

------
norswap
I use torrents a lot, but it's not a perfect solution.

For one, P2P is mostly a myth — most people (myself included, I will admit)
are pure leechers that only seed at very low bandwidth while downloading.
Seeders are either altruistic downloaders who rent a dedicated seedbox, or
some servers in Russia whose incentive structure I fail to comprehend (or more
honestly: haven't looked into).

Number two: because of this, the catalog is not amazing. Even popular recent
shows have issues. Case from very recently: I gave up on finding 1080p
versions of The Good Place season 1 & 2 (on public trackers at least).
Anything not in English? Try your luck but mostly forget it.

It's worse for music — the system doesn't incentivize a lot of small uploads
but rather grouping them. So finding rare tracks/b-sides is very hard. Back in
the day, Kazaa and eMule were vastly better with rarities.

This is not an indictment of BitTorrent — it's still the best we have. But I
wish we had better.

~~~
dangus
> This is not an indictment of BitTorrent — it's still the best we have. But I
> wish we had better.

There's also Usenet.

~~~
norswap
Isn't Usenet even more fragile in terms of centralization and legality? I
actually wonder why it hasn't been targeted more? Is there any reason? Or is
it just that it is relatively obscure compared to BitTorrent?

------
martin1975
and it, and others like it, will continue to live forever. Before TPB, when I
was in college, I used to hang out on #warez on EFNet's IRC servers... Before
1996, I used to dial in to BBS' that would host these. The tech doesn't matter
when the problem is entirely ethical. Pirates, like porn peddlers, are the
first to adapt and adopt new tech to perpetuate their ideology. No amount of
tech, or even legal action is going to address issues of ethics.

With that said, how do you address it? Probably by making software more
affordable for those who pirate it, wish to buy it but cannot. Offering low
cost subscriptions, e.g. instead of exorbitant one time fees. I don't
necessarily want to buy a game.. I dont play games that much anymore, but I
wouldn't mind subscribing to a service that offered it for a month or two, get
my jollies and then leave when I'm not using it.

So rather than try to defeat it - and ideas are notoriously hard to defeat...
try to "compete" with it and pray that people's conscience kicks in at some
point.

I don't see what more past that one can do.

~~~
0xffff2
>Offering low cost subscriptions, e.g. instead of exorbitant one time fees.

I couldn't disagree more. I pirated Adobe's products many years ago when I was
a poor student who couldn't afford the price. I also wouldn't have been able
to justify the price of a monthly subscription back then. Now though, I would
pay any price up to a couple thousand dollars for a one-time purchase of CS6
Photoshop and Illustrator, but it's literally impossible to do this now.

~~~
ip26
Setting aside other circumstances, IMO student pricing is usually dealt with
pretty well overall. I think I paid $10 apiece for several different cutting-
edge niche software packages with four to five figure commercial license
costs, and various software from Microsoft was free.

Even Adobe does it sometimes: [https://www.cnet.com/news/5-a-year-for-
photoshop-and-other-c...](https://www.cnet.com/news/5-a-year-for-photoshop-
and-other-creative-cloud-apps-yes-as-adobe-slashes-education-pricing/)

~~~
stOneskull
great. i'm a student. i study at home with courses i pirate.

~~~
anoncake
That's a problem if you're willing to pirate but unwilling to pirate.

------
kuon
I have a netflix subscription but I torrent all my movies/series for the
convenience of the player.

I want to put the subtitles where I want and pick the font, I want to be able
to apply image filters to my movie (I use a monitor calibrated for photo, and
it is not ideal for movies, it is much easier to apply a filter than to switch
my monitor calibration), also I watch things while working and mpv is much
lighter than any browser, I love to be able to seek with the mouse wheel, the
stereo mixing on netflix is often horrible and I can't hear the dialogues...
There are tons of argument in favor of a real video player.

~~~
anoncake
> I have a netflix subscription but I torrent all my movies/series for the
> convenience of the player.

You pay for a service you don't use. Why? That signals to Netflix that no
matter how bad their service is, you'll pay for it.

~~~
kuon
Because I thought I would use it more. I will surely end up cancelling.

------
bredren
Streaming audio services decimated private trackers like What and Waffles.
Anecdotally, I know a number of people who passed up torrenting GoT this year
to just stream from HBO Go for the first time.

~~~
ukyrgf
The French government decimated What. It had nothing but growth even long
after Spotify. It was a music fan's heaven; it had virtually every version of
every record ever released. You can't put a price on that. Also, as a musician
of nearly 20 years, I would 100% absolutely rather have a person pirate my
music than pay $10/mo to play it on Spotify.

Waffles didn't innovate. The site that launched after Oink shutdown is largely
the same site that is up today (figuratively, I'm sure it'll be back at some
point).

~~~
mustacheemperor
I would absolutely rather pay $100/month for a legal version of What.cd than
use Spotify :/

The worst part isn't that What is gone, it's that What is gone and _nothing_
can replace it. Like with older games that can't be purchased legally online,
the rightsholders have kept us from consuming that content _at all._ In order
to preserve their absolute right to distribute it for money!

The number of people here suggesting Apple Music would have killed it anyway
or that Tidal etc is an adequate replacement shows just how effectively the
rightsholders have deluded us all again. The currently available streaming
services are almost entirely incomparable to the collection once available at
What, it's like comparing your local library to the statewide database.

------
Iv
And I am probably going to vote pirate party this weekend at the EU election.
Because the industry still hasn't acknowledged the shift in culture. Societies
move so slowly...

~~~
la_barba
Its the same law that protect people from others stealing GPL code. I assume
you're in favor of that?

~~~
cpach
The status quo and abandoning copyright aren’t the only alternatives. It would
also be possible to reform copyright. One obvious change would be to shorten
the time that a work can be copyrighted.

~~~
Rhinobird
Like going back to the original 14 years?

~~~
__david__
Anything less than the current "infinite" would be a pleasant change.

~~~
chimeracoder
> Anything less than the current "infinite" would be a pleasant change.

It's a long time, but it's not infinite. New works started entering the public
domain again on January 1, 2019.

~~~
ixwt
That's yet to be determined. Disney is a big influence on the length of US
copyright protections.

Let's see what happens come 2024:

> On January 1, 2024, we'll see the expiration of the copyright for Steamboat
> Willie—and with it Disney's claim to the film's star, Mickey Mouse.

~~~
chimeracoder
> That's yet to be determined. Disney is a big influence on the length of US
> copyright protections. Let's see what happens come 2024

I'm well aware of Disney's role in copyright law.

Disney's opportunity to do extend the term was before Dec. 31, 2018. That's
how they extended copyright durations in the past - preventing any new works
from entering the public domain at all. It's much harder for them to
retroactively amend the copyright term now that some of those works have begun
to enter the public domain.

------
Theodores
TPB was good for software, even if I owned legit software I would run the
dongle free hacked version just because it didn't put you through hoops to
check your license, giving a better install/start time.

But we don't run that desktop software now. Open Source is better than closed
source for many applications, then there is SaaS. I am not going to want to
get excited about Microsoft Word as nobody uses word processors these days.

------
IloveHN84
And it's good for us if it stays alive

------
la_barba
Its interesting that it is usually hosted in countries that see a limited
impact from the piracy of copyrighted works.

------
moreorless
It's been forever since I've fired up a torrent client besides grabbing the
latest iso of this distro or that distro. Where do the cool kids grab their
torrents from these days?

~~~
simongr3dal
If you have an adblocker (to prevent cryptocurrency mining, and giant
transparent overlays with links taking you to horrible ads) I hear that
skytorrents, 1337x, the pirate bay, or eztv are pretty good.

~~~
krackers
It's interesting that the even the footer of piratebay recommends an
adblocker:

>By entering TPB you agree to XMR being mined using your CPU. If you don't
agree please leave now or install an adBlocker

------
everyone
They _have_ killed off the best sites though. Like Demonoid.. There you could
find lovingly curated collections of obscure stuff that could not be found or
bought anywhere. Eg. obscure Arthur C Clarke short stories. On public trackers
like TPB and RarBG you will only find popular trash like Marvel movies and
game of thrones. So imo the heart of 'piracy' has been mostly torn out.

------
mouzogu
Pirate Bay solves many problems and it will continue to exist in some
incarnation until those problems have been resolved by some other, better
solution.

For many, perhaps most people, Pirate Bay is literally the ONLY solution
available.

I'm using Pirate Bay in a general sense to refer to Bit-torrent but also in a
more specific sense as it applies to their longevity.

------
cpach
Honest question: What is TPB good for these days? Recent mainstream movies are
available through iTunes and similar venues. Older and/or lesser known movies
usually have very few seeders on TPB IME. IMO it’s more convenient to just
order the DVD by mail in that case.

~~~
rc_kas
I like to have downloaded files of movies I own. Thus I can watch them without
and internet connection and also I don't have to trust the the streaming
service will randomly delete my movie (as has happened).

~~~
rconti
Why not just rip them? I used to rip all of my DVDs, but then found I never
watched those rips, and now I'd rather just pay $5 to watch the 4k version
than track down my "free" 480i copy.

~~~
Asooka
Ripping them is exactly as illegal as torrenting while being harder to do and
the tools to remove DRM from content are under constant attack. It's easier to
just torrent.

~~~
rconti
Thanks, I didn't realize what a hassle the DRM stuff had become.

------
Pigo
I miss Kickass, they were my favorite for years.

I guess I always thought things would go back to IRC once all of these sites
got taken down. While I was still getting everything I wanted on Undernet or
Dalnet, I remember thinking it was brazen to have this stuff on a public
website, and that it wouldn't last long if it was legit stuff. It's funny
Pirate Bay is still proving me wrong after all these years.

My IRC revival just doesn't seem to be in the cards. I can't even find an
active server outside of freenode, which is basically like a stack overflow
chat.

------
teddyh
[https://www.torproject.org/](https://www.torproject.org/)

[http://uj3wazyk5u4hnvtk.onion/](http://uj3wazyk5u4hnvtk.onion/)

~~~
utopcell
sure, everyone will click on your random links.

~~~
hombre_fatal
It's a Pirate Bay front-end.

~~~
teddyh
It is, as far as I know, the _official_ Pirate Bay Tor address.

------
00__00
AFTER 10 YEARS THOUGH.... Pirate Party Founder Calls For Legalization Of Child
Pornography Possession

[https://www.businessinsider.com/pirate-party-rick-
falkvinge-...](https://www.businessinsider.com/pirate-party-rick-falkvinge-
founder-publishes-highly-controversial-article-on-child-porn-2012-9?r=US&IR=T)

------
bubblewrap
Wasn't the domain operated by the FBI at some point (or some other law
enforcement agency, I forgot)? No mention in the article? Perhaps it keeps
operating as a honeypot?

------
intopieces
There is still, for me and a few other people, value in obtaining and sharing
music that is outside the influence of corporate curation. It feels more
organic.

------
edgarvm
Maybe we should say torrent can't be killed, sadly there is not a good
replacement for it until now

------
bronlund
I thought the swedish government hosted it now :)

~~~
buzzert
IIRC, it was hosted by the Pirate Party at the Pionen White Mountain reserve
for some time. But ever since Cloudflare came into existence, access to their
front-end is provided by them with a hidden tor node in the back-end.

------
La-ang
Btw Demonoid is also still up :D Good old times.

~~~
magashna
a shell of its former self. Not even worth going back to IMO.

Now if what.cd came back...that would be a great time

------
poium99
At this point the media companies are relying on the public being “normalized”
to buying their content.

“Of course I buy my songs and hit up Redbox and buy DVDs! That’s how it
works!”

The tools will get easier to use and the outputs will continue to approach
studio quality.

You hear the stories from folks in the industry: I grew up making movies with
my parents camcorder.

Today’s kids will grow up using a computer and iPad to quickly make a movie,
aided by ML tools that help edit and create CG content, and publish it
instantly for free.

~~~
vonseel
Legal avenues have already replaced illegal downloading of music for nearly
all of us.

I grew up torrenting and was a proud member of what.cd when that tracker was
still alive.

These days I listen to nearly all of my music on paid Spotify subscriptions.
The number of people who have access to either Spotify, Amazon Prime, or Apple
Music subscriptions must be huge. Those who don’t have paid subscriptions
probably aren’t that interested in music in the first place.

Video is a different beast, but I do like Netflix. Torrents live on for new
releases and less available content, though.

~~~
SamuelAdams
Agreed, I like Spotify quite a lot. But for movies, Netflix simply ins't
cutting it these days. Try searching for any movie from 2000 - 2010 [1] that
made more than a million in the box office on opening weekend. Most of them
are not there. I want to watch films like Harry Potter, The Dark Knight, and
Lord of the Rings. Unfortunately, they are either scattered across a dozen
different services or simply not there at all.

What I would like is a rent-on-demand method. Xbox almost gets this right:
they have plenty of titles you can rent for up to 24 hours. You typically pay
between 3 - 6 dollars per film. More recent films are more expensive. However,
I would like to see the cost go down, especially for older titles. Basically
match any Redbox prices (1-2 dollars), and provide a way for me to stream it
on-demand.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_in_film](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_in_film)

~~~
asdff
I hate the rental model, it's extortion. It made sense when you had to return
a disk to a store for others to rent, but putting an expiration date on a
digital file is absurd. At least with redbox you can rip the DVD.

~~~
zrobotics
Well, if you consider ripping the DVD valid then there's absolutely nothing
stopping you from saving the rented digital stream either. At the bare
minimum, aside from whatever DRM is in place directly capturing the stream w/
OBS is always viable.

------
brighter2morrow
Kinda weird how speech about entirely legal activity gets deplatformed, but
TPB whose core competency is theft has all the courts wringing their hands
about freedom of speech.

~~~
mooseburger
That's probably a "golden" opportunity for the MPAA and the like. Implicate a
Pirate Bay link with "neo-nazis" or "racists", watch it go down shortly after.
Perhaps Alex Jones or Sargon of Akkad could start using it as another platform
to distribute their content.

------
founderling
Maybe the society has to finally adapt & embrace to the way things are going
in the last 20 years: music stars to earn their money in the concerts they
sold out due to "piracy" and not from selling CDs, movie stars from royalties
paid by subscribers of Netflix and HBO and other such services, or even
monetize their popularity directly from endorsing products. Software
developers seem to be the first to adapt: you can't pirate a SaaS or a cloud.
One can try and copy it, but will be always behind the first moved and the
original creator, because they always seem to have good ideas.

Equating IP with real estate is bad for the society: why would someone keep
producing and keep performing if they made a hit with a song, or a movie, or a
game?

~~~
phjesusthatguy3
Did you just pirate this[0] comment?

[0][https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19995834](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19995834)

~~~
founderling
Yes, it seemed like the author would be fine with it.

------
paradox1234
Deleted original comment, and btw - all the comments attached to this just
underline the fact that the piratebay is not exactly user friendly AND ALSO
BTW - A VPN doesn't in any way guarantee that your IP address can't leak out
in a number of ways.

~~~
vonseel
The ISP sent a notice in an email or what? I’ve never heard of this happening.

~~~
palunon
The ISP probably received an abuse complaint by an MPAA enforcement agency for
some IP, and basically transferred it to their customer.

Some big ISPs probably get enough of these to have automated the process,
hence the difference of minutes.

------
vezycash
TPB neither dead no alive. It's been in zombie mode for months. Torrents are
very old. Only porn vidz are still being actively uploaded. The search engine
is a shadow of itself. In fact, I feel it's been intentionally crippled and
here's why: Many times, the search bar claims zero result. I use a different
torrent search engine and see a link to the same stuff on TPB!

Not only that, spammers have taken over the site - probably, randsomware
spreaders. Torrents few minutes old would have thousands of seeds with
ridiculous file sizes.

It's sad. TPB's like the Github of torrents. TPB's reputation system and
comments was a godsend. Till now, there's still no replacement for it.

I feel something's up with the current owners of site.

~~~
iqihs
This hasn't been my experience at all. It exists through proxies now and
torrents are very up to date.

~~~
astazangasta
Ditto. I get all my content this way and it remains easy and reliable.

