

Future of Flash - whyleym
http://www.adobe.com/choice/flash.html

======
mustpax
"19 out of the top 20 device manufacturers worldwide have _committed to_
shipping Flash technology on their devices"

It would be more wise to actually wait till you can deliver a decent Flash
implementation on a mobile device before touting your mobile position. Because
your mobile position right now is that you have been promising the world but
not delivering jack.

~~~
xenthral
"deliver a decent Flash implementation on a mobile device before touting your
mobile position."

I wish they'd do the same for desktop too. Flash doesn't really 'run' on my 64
bit ubuntu , it sputters and crawls and fucks up in a plethora of ways.

~~~
pan69
I don't have that problem at all. I was hesitant to move to 64 bit but the
Flash player is screaming fast on my machine. I can easily playback 1680x1050
YouTube videos without a glitch. It's more than possible that your hardware
configuration is the cause. Get in touch with Adobe and let them know your
config, the problem might be fixable.

PS: I run Ubuntu as well of course.

~~~
xenthral
"It's more than possible that your hardware configuration is the cause"

Its definitely not the hardware horsepower itself, as I have very good
performance on 64 vista.

I'm also running with the very latest nvidia binary drivers, I have an intel
dual core E2200 - not cutting edge but flash will actually take up an entire
core with small animations, so it definitely seems like a bug to me.

"Get in touch with Adobe and let them know your config, the problem might be
fixable."

I've spent a while (way way more than I ever wanted for something that they
market as 'plug in' / 'just works') going through the ubuntu forums and
launchpad, some stuff seems like fixeable problems that maybe I just couldn't
fix, but heres a list of problems I have:

* Sometimes opening a new firefox/chromium tab/window and loading a website with flash will crash it, crashing all flash instances - so if I'm listening to a google tech talk or something I have to restart it and go hunt the on the timeline.

* Sometimes controllers just stop responding to clicks ( [http://www.khattam.info/2009/08/18/solved-flashplugin-contro...](http://www.khattam.info/2009/08/18/solved-flashplugin-controls-not-working-in-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala-alpha-4/) )

* Flash will flicker as I scroll down firefox/chromium.

* This has stopped now, but at one point flash crashing wouldn't free its memory, and Xorg just started consuming more and more memory, bringing the entire computer to an almost halt!

* Some flash players/gamers/whatever when I'd press the fullscreen button would get from xorg as my resolution the sum of my 2 monitors - 2560x1024, which means they'd get clipped in half or they would get letterboxed (msnbc.com and youtube.com for instance) while others such as video.google.com works just fine.

These are just things off the top of my head - it seems flash is the #1
problem for 64 bit ubuntu from quick glances at the 64 bit forums, I've had a
lot more problems, I tend to avoid flash websites as a result.

~~~
not_an_alien
Are you using the vanilla player or the x64 player?

~~~
xenthral
I've tried both the apt package and downloading directly from adobe, to be
honest I don't remember if there was a difference in problems, or just the
same set of them, either way it didn't 'just work'.

~~~
not_an_alien
Let me rephrase that. Did you install the normal plugin (which is not x64) or
the beta x64?

In case of the package, which package exactly did you install?

~~~
xenthral
I went through a phase I tried installing everything under the sun and looked
around quite a bit (the packages directly from adobe, different apt packages,
random bash scripts I found online..) so I actually don't remember what I
tested and didn't.

What I have _at the moment_ and doesn't work that well, I got through the
'flashplugin-nonfree' package which if I understand is the 'preferred' way to
install flash on ubuntu 64.

~~~
not_an_alien
It is the 'normal' way but I'm not sure it's the 'preferred' one for a x64
system.

Seriously, are you SURE you tried the x64 version? From the looks of it, you
didn't, so I'd suggest you following the steps to get the x64 package.

Something like this should work:
[http://nxadm.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/install-64-bit-
adobe-f...](http://nxadm.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/install-64-bit-adobe-flash-
player-on-ubuntu-904/) [http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/install-flash-10-ubuntu-
linux-...](http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/install-flash-10-ubuntu-
linux-64bit.html)

It's not flashplugin-nonfree, as the x64 version is still a beta package
available separately (but drastically better than the standard one on x64
machines).

~~~
xenthral
I had definitely tried that before, recall issuing a 'mkdir .mozilla/plugins'
& moving a .so in there. Can't remember why I rolled that back and reinstalled
it through apt thought.

Anyways trying it again nonetheless, the blinking is still going on with
scrolling, going to see if performance/crashing at least improves.

------
jcl
It's funny to see Adobe listing things like Gnash, Haxe, and Red5 as
advantages of Flash, after impeding their early development.

~~~
Qz
It's not like Adobe is the only tech company guilty of that.

~~~
iongion
Well, is that real what i see with my own eyes, Gnash ?

Is this just a mentioning of several technologies or do they really allow
Gnash existence ?

SWF renderers are the only forbidden aspect of the entire Flash technology.

Is this for real ?

------
swombat
They might have open-sourced the code of Flash, but getting bugs fixed and
critical enhancements implemented in the Flash player (or in Flex) is still a
lengthy, opaque process that takes years. It took them 3 years to add a global
exception handler and fix the scrollbars in Mac, for pete's sake!

As a Flex developer, that pisses me off to no end. I work in Flash all the
time, and I use it because I have no choice, to do what I want to do, but I
hate Flash because Adobe is so glacially slow at implementing small, obvious
fixes to make my work easier.

~~~
pan69
Is that a Flash Player or a Flex framework thing?

~~~
swombat
Both are pretty slow. Flex is marginally faster.

~~~
iongion
Flex is marginally faster than light

------
ianbishop
I wonder how many times Adobe has these same arguments pasted all over their
site. The exchange has been had. If you tried any harder to push your
relevance, you might even come off as a little desperate.

~~~
Qz
Is there something in what they said that you disagree with?

------
WilliamLP
Their new slogan should be "Flash: at least you're still locked into it for
the next half decade if you want to support IE 8."

~~~
jasonlotito
Or if you need features that are still not present in HTML5. Flash is used for
more than playing videos and simple games.

~~~
malnourish
I would really like to see something like Grooveshark in HTML5.

------
frou_dh
Despite all these high figures and percentages, I still typically find Flash
annoying, bar video players. What now?

~~~
watty
Is it that you find "Flash" annoying or just rich content in general?

~~~
frou_dh
Tough question actually. I've spent so much time browsing the net that it's
hard to unravel these things...

------
thingie
Oh, sure. H.264 is just a codec, and <video> is just an HTML tag, but somehow,
that's exactly what I want. I can (very easily) make a H.264 or Ogg Theora
video and wrap it inside <video> tag and it is going to work, I don't even
know how I would do that with your "complete solution for advanced video
distribution". Except "put it on youtube", of course.

~~~
pan69
I've never used the video tag. I'm sure there is more involved than adding
<video></video> tags to my page. I'll probably have to do some research to get
it working the way I want. "How do I make the play and pause button the way my
visual guy designed them" would the first question that would come to mind. I
guess the same goes for a Flash based solution.

~~~
thingie
<http://palisada.net/files/video.html>

This is enough (look at the source, that's all I did, except uploading the
video file). Of course, custom controls and other stuff would take more
effort, but just puting a video on your website is this easy, really.

~~~
WilliamLP
Except it doesn't work in Firefox because of open source politics! If you want
the same video file to appear in any browser this still requires Flash
unfortunately. (And supporting multiple encodings for everything you produce
can be expensive in terms of processing power, storage, maintenance, and so
on.)

~~~
omgsean
>If you want the same video file to appear in any browser

Except Mobile Safari...

------
kristiandupont
"For existing Flash content developed with mouse input in mind, Flash Player
will automatically convert the touch events into mouse events. This allows
Flash content designed for the desktop, to work seamlessly on touch-based
devices."

I can't wait to try <http://www.dontclick.it/> on a touch based device!

~~~
pan69
Will work just fine. On a touch device you use your finger to move the mouse,
what would be the problem?

~~~
thamer
No it won’t. Touch events being transformed into click events means that a
finger touch and swipe will be translated into a clic & drag. How do you
differentiate click & drag from hover & move?

~~~
not_an_alien
Click & drag events: mouse over -> mouse down -> mouse move

Hover & move events: mouse over -> mouse move

Since that website does not take mouse down into consideration (taking no
action), then yes, 'click & drag' would work perfectly well.

------
braindead_in
The article is more about present than the future.

Instead why not focus on filling the gaps? There are still so many things that
HTML5 and browsers cant do. Wasn't that the reason Flash came into existence
in the first place.

~~~
jasonlotito
The problem is, there is a lot of FUD suggesting that HTML5 is a complete
replacement for Flash, and you can duplicate Flash in HTML5, when the truth
is, you can't.

------
ssharp
Those stats are useless.

Microsoft had 95% of the browser market at some point.

I'd also like to know how 98% of enterprises "rely" on Flash. I think if Flash
was completely obliterated, those enterprises would be largely unharmed.

~~~
tomlin
_Rely_ is a fair word to use. It would be sensible to say that these
enterprises also rely on IIS, Apache, Microsoft Word, Excel, Photoshop or a
long list of other software that they likely _rely_ on.

None of which would dismantle their interests if they disappeared.

But, I suppose you don't get any upvotes for mentioning any of those.

~~~
Nwallins
> _IIS, Apache, Microsoft Word, Excel, Photoshop_

I can see the enterprise use case for all of those except perhaps the last. I
doubt 98% of enterprises rely on Photoshop.

What is the enterprise use case for Flash again?

~~~
tomlin
> I doubt 98% of enterprises rely on Photoshop.

True, although those who do _rely_ on it could factor in another way of
getting the job done. My point is not directed at the total % use, rather the
reliance of the software at all.

\---

> What is the enterprise use case for Flash again?

I would venture to assume it would be the same as video distribution,
podcasts, ads, pdfs or any other format to distribute content.

\---

The case for enterprise software use (especially for content) pretty much
applies universally.

Trendy hate tends to be very specific.

------
kixxauth
Adobe: Please stop defending flash and get on with your life. Build us the
HTML tools you said you would and do it so fast that I will forget about all
this flash stuff.

[http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/05/adobe-cto-kevin-lynch-
were-...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/05/adobe-cto-kevin-lynch-were-going-
to-make-the-best-tools-in-the-world-for-html5/)

~~~
CodeMage
Okay, so you read the interview where Lynch says _"It’s not about HTML 5 vs
Flash. They’re mutually beneficial."_ and you're still expecting Adobe to
replace "all this flash stuff"?

~~~
kixxauth
"It’s not about HTML 5 vs Flash. They’re mutually beneficial." Of course they
have to say that. Just hoping they stop living in the past sooner rather than
later.

------
andreyf
youporn.com has implemented HTML5 video. Flash is dead.

------
DeusExMachina
There are a lot of opinions on the future of Flash. It would be interesting to
see the statistics at the top of the article from now on, to see if flash will
shrink fast, slowly or remain strong. Or even grow, but I would not bet on
this last one.

------
lukev
No flash on the iPad is a reasonably big deal for me. I almost bought one,
then realized that I couldn't use Hulu or Amazon Video on Demand with it.

I use those for ALL of my TV needs. Watching TV in bed with an iPad was
actually the most attractive use case to me, until I realized it wouldn't
work.

So I didn't buy one.

Edit: I don't particularly love Flash for its own sake. I just want to use the
services that I've come to like. And apparently, right now, Flash is the only
realistic way to get them. HTML5 is, apparently, not quite there yet.

~~~
MikeCapone
> No flash on the iPad is a reasonably big deal for me. I almost bought one,
> then realized that I couldn't use Hulu or Amazon Video on Demand with it.

If they don't already exist, I'm pretty sure that you'll soon be able to
access these services via dedicated apps. They'll probably have a nicer
interface (for touch) than the websites too.

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iongion
From my view, the only real closed thing in Flash is that they do not allow
SWF renderers others than the Flash Player itself. (If any mobile company can
create their own renderer, then, why license players from Adobe)

Then another problem appears, if anyone can create their own players, then
they might introduce differences(Java vs J++ long ago)

GNASH being mentioned on an official page, i can not believe my eyes!!!

------
CodeMage
I was surprised to see that only 70% of web games use flash. Anyone have any
idea on what's in the remaining 30%?

~~~
renewableGuy
On my iPad, 100% of web games are non-playable. Flash wont work on Ipad, and
Html5 games are painfully sluggish. (including that Asteroid HTML5 game
featured on the front page right now). Anyway, im happy that Flash doesnt work
on iPad. Its not very fun to hold a hot iPad, you know!

~~~
watty
Good one! I bet if you didn't turn it on it wouldn't get hot at all!!!

~~~
renewableGuy
Cant believe that you are getting downmodded so hard! iPad really sucks at
rendering even basic html5 interactive content and the more i play with it ,
the more i feel like, iPad just isnt capable of doing even the basic
'interactive-rich' content. I was suggesting ,Flash is too advanced for iPad
that not allowing it in is technically a good thing for Apple.

~~~
muhfuhkuh
>iPad just isnt capable of doing even the basic 'interactive-rich' content

... on the web. Apps, of course, are a different matter entirely. But I get
ya, mobile Safari needs a refresh.

------
ryanwaggoner
It's a good thing they didn't have any flash on this page or my browser would
have crashed before I was able to finish reading all the reasons that flash is
awesome and I can't live without it.

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latch
98% of enterprises rely on flash player ?

------
joubert
Less talk more action

------
yigit
here is a website for the debate: <http://applevsadobe.net>

