
MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM - nthuser
https://old.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/
======
no1youknowz
On TWiT[0]. They had the keyboard up to 115f sometimes, some other videos on
youtube have gone much higher.

I've also seen a couple of youtubers and the number is growing, returning
their macbooks [1], [2], due to the performance and the number is growing
daily.

I really think this issue is down to a few things.

1) The need from Apple to be thinner each iteration, is really costing them
the ability to have better thermals and fans.

2) Putting an 14nm chip where a 10nm should be. Unfortunately Intel is having
issues with that.

3) No vents at the sides or the back, only where the screen is. Poor design
considerations when it comes to heat.

I'm going to be keeping onto my MBPr 2012 for another year. I want to see some
of these issues being resolved.

I would not be surprised if this spurs on Apple to phase in Arm processors in
2020.

[0]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DcIP6FtuRk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DcIP6FtuRk)

[1]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZfXBN6kqu8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZfXBN6kqu8)

[2]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_K1rpYz6ug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_K1rpYz6ug)

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
Similarly, my 2012 Air (8gb RAM, 500gb SSD) is working just fine, and I could
probably get quite a few more years out of it.

It astonishes me how well that old laptop does what I need, considering any
laptop from 2006 or 2004 would have been slow as molasses in 2012, and total
garbage today.

~~~
basch
>considering any laptop from 2006 or 2004 would have been slow as molasses in
2012, and total garbage today.

Not if you put an SSD in it. Core 2 Duo is an acceptable processor. People
seem quite surprised to learn that their slow pc is caused by disk io
saturation.

------
evadne
Apple statement: Following extensive performance testing under numerous
workloads, we've identified that there is a missing digital key in the
firmware that impacts the thermal management system and could drive clock
speeds down under heavy thermal loads on the new MacBook Pro.

[https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-addresses-
macbook...](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-addresses-macbook-pro-
throttling-controversy-after-working-with-youtuber-dave-lee.2129221/)

------
slededit
That is much more embarrassing than simple thermal throttling of the CPU. The
thermal overload on PMIC chips are designed to handle malfunctions not regular
usage.

~~~
stefan_
If the voltage regulator is overheating at high CPU load, it must be getting
very hot at just normal load. That will seriously reduce it's life span, not
to mention a hot voltage regulator means you're pissing away battery
unnecessarily.

------
post_break
Apple put out a patch it looks like:
[https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/apple-addresses-
macbook...](https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/apple-addresses-macbook-pro-
throttling/)

------
dugditches
Seems crazy to spend so much on a machine, just have to do something that
apparently can void your warranty if something goes amiss, to take advantage
of the extra power you paid for.

~~~
sp332
Well, they do claim to have a firmware fix.
[https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/we-tested-
throttling...](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/we-tested-throttling-
on-the-macbook-pro-now-apple-says-it-has-a-firmware-fix/)

------
fhood
I don't understand how this happened. Apple is a company that built it's
empire on paying a premium for reliability and ease of use.

There have been mistakes in the past, but this is something that should have
been caught immediately, which suggests that they were aware of it at release.

Is it just nostalgia goggles telling me that Jobs would not have let these out
the door?

~~~
slantyyz
While Apple's not blameless in the matter, this seems to be more of an Intel
issue no?

It appears the i9 isn't a good fit for thin and light laptops (Apple's also
not the only one using the i9 in this form factor). Of course, a laptop using
this i9 and properly cooling it is not going to be small or pretty[1].

Getting back to Apple, there are a couple of ways of looking at this.

For people who are bursting (as opposed to doing long running sustained loads)
the i9 is probably the fastest Macbook Pro you can get. For people who are
using optimized media apps like FCP, this is also not necessarily a bad buy,
since you'll likely reap the benefits of the faster CPU.

For people who are doing sustained loads and/or running non-optimized apps
like Premiere, this is probably not a good Macbook Pro to buy. For people who
care a lot about getting advertised baseline clock rates, irrespective of
bottom line performance gains, this is also not the Macbook Pro to buy.

For some, it's an easy choice, and for others, it's complicated.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUlGnNUut8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUlGnNUut8)

~~~
ubercore
> While Apple's not blameless in the matter, this seems to be more of an Intel
> issue no?

I mean, Apple sourced the chip and shipped the laptop, and you pay Apple. I
don't see how you _can't_ blame Apple engineering for this?

~~~
slantyyz
> I don't see how you _can't_ blame Apple engineering for this?

Which is why I said "not blameless"

~~~
garrettdc
Thermal properties of the chip and any issues arising from those are pieces
that the engineers should have sussed out in the beginning though. If I don't
put a heatsink and fan on my desktop CPU, then is that Intel's fault? Of
course not.

Hopefully the firmware can take care of the issue for those impacted.

------
satysin
I got my 15" 2.6Ghz i7 model yesterday and I _love_ it.

Obviously there are issues as many have reported but I am using this for iOS
and Android development and this thing is a good 30-45% faster for builds
compared to my top-spec 2017 model. The Android emulator starts up (cold boot
not from save state) faster as well (just measured it at 9 seconds to boot a
Nexus 5X API 28 AVD vs 16 seconds on my 2017 i7).

Once things have settled down a bit I will look into things again but I am in
no rush to start modifying firmware values when, for my needs, everything is
great.

For those interested the new keyboard is a little "softer" and quieter. My
wife commented on how different it sounds. I would say it sound similar to a
Dell XPS 15 or ThinkPad T480 in terms of how loud it is.

The TrueTone option for the display is _lovely_ for programming imho. Really
nice little new feature. Other than that not much has changed externally
though. It is still a very nice machine and I hope Apple tweaks things to
address the thermal throttling people are seeing. For development though it is
a dream.

Edit: Seems Apple has released an update to fix this
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603063](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603063)

~~~
Exuma
Have you used Butterfly v.1 to compare it to? I absolutely hated v.1 with a
passion (it's like typing on a flat desk), I absolutely LOVED v.2 with a
passion. I'm wondering how I will like v.3...

~~~
satysin
Yes I have used all 3 butterfly keyboards. I agree the first gen was awful.
2nd felt great but was quite loud[0] and had the issues with dust obviously.
This is very much like 2nd gen with just a very _very_ subtle softness to it.
It feels _really_ to _me_. I think if you love 2nd you will love 3rd even
more.

[0] The whole "omg it is so loud!!!" thing kind of made me laugh as everyone
that I knew who made such a complaint had a mech keyboard with some
obnoxiously loud cherry mx switch in it. I mean yes I did feel the 1st and 2nd
gen butterfly keyboards were too loud but they were still quieter than any
mech keyboard I have used!

~~~
Exuma
Well this is awesome news!!

~~~
satysin
Obviously I meant to write

> it feels _really good_ to _me_

Just forgot to put the good in and can't edit it now ;)

------
xchaotic
Such delays in shipping and yet the hardware designs are rushed. I'm switching
to Linux laptop with 64GB RAM. There might be some pain for a bit, but IMO
totally worth it for Apple to have viable competition in the 'pro' space.

~~~
kristianp
What laptop are you getting?

------
baybal2
All powerfull cpus and gpus these days have what is called droop detection.
When they detect undervoltage, they "stretch" the master clock.

Effectively, they skip clock cycles till voltage recovers in power supply
capacitors.

------
frou_dh
Insisting on using the same chassis design for i9, dGPU packin' models is like
a person not having a summer wardrobe and inappropriately wearing winter
clothes all year round.

It ain't clever and people are going to notice.

------
akulbe
It looks like Apple has already released a software update to fix this.

------
jiveturkey
oy. now i'm really torn. i canceled my i9 order and placed an i7 order
instead. i will relatively rarely need peak performance but when i do, it's in
work stretches long enough that i want absolute best performance. it has to be
on the same laptop -- i cannot offload to a desktop or another machine.

now, do i cancel the i7 and re-order the i9? argh.

it's painful to just delay my order for a month, knowing a much higher
performing laptop is available now.

i'm inclined to keep the i7 as i understand from one of the many vids that the
"normal" operating temperature is much lower. even on my older i5, i am very
sensitive to the keyboard getting hot.

------
vesrah
Originally posted at MacRumors by winterny
[https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-tuning-
sett...](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-tuning-settings-
for-i9-mbp-to-stop-vrm-throttling-explanation-of-apples-
engineering-f.2128936/)

~~~
dang
Thanks! Url changed from
[https://old.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_...](https://old.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/),
which straight-up copies this.

~~~
DuskStar
I think it's the other way around - MacRumors post was July 22nd at 4:57pm
while the Reddit post was July 22nd at 4:36pm GMT-7. (I can't tell if I'm
being messed up by time zones though as that doesn't appear on mouseover for
MacRumors)

~~~
dang
Ah ok. Changed back from [https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-
tuning-sett...](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-tuning-
settings-for-i9-mbp-to-stop-vrm-throttling-explanation-of-apples-
engineering-f.2128936/). Sorry!

------
simooooo
Phantom throttling has been a big issue in the desktop i9s too. I've ran into
it overclock mine many times.

