
Carlypso (YC S14) could change everything about how we buy and sell used cars - sama
http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/18/carlypso-could-change-everything-about-how-we-buy-and-sell-used-cars/
======
nlh
It's a _really_ great idea - congrats on the publicity and launch guys.

I cannot count how many times friends have called me to ask "So, how do I sell
my used car?" I never have a good answer (The trade-in-to-dealer process is
the easiest but by far the worst financially) .

On the question (from the video) of 'What if it gets stolen?'

"At worst, you get paid for the car."

Heh. This brings up a number of thoughts -- I mean, in the end, your goal as a
seller is to sell the car. If it gets stolen, your insurance company pays you
for the car, so...mission accomplished?

If that becomes a regular occurrence, it creates a weird market condition --
thieves win because they get an easily-stolen car. The seller wins because
he's sold his car quickly. So the insurance company loses -- and who gets left
holding the bag?

(Not saying this is a real risk - I think these guys are going to do
wonderfully - but a thought experiment...)

~~~
p0ckets
Insurance companies would start charging more for letting potential buyers
drive your car.

~~~
gambiting
Presumably, Carlypso will provide their own insurance.

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sixQuarks
[http://www.instamotor.com](http://www.instamotor.com) is in the same space.
Looking at both of their sites, Instamotors seems more inviting and explains
things better.

There's no question that the space is ripe for disruption, but the problem
with both of these services are:

1) How does the consumer know you'll actually get a better price for them? The
only way to know for sure is to list it yourself and see how you would do.
There is a conflict of interest here, because these sites would rather have a
quick sale than take a long time negotiating an extra few hundred dollars.

2) I don't necessarily feel comfortable giving strangers access to my car so
they can give other strangers test drives.

~~~
damonpace
Instamotor's CEO bought a car using Carlypso and decided to copy the model.
That's the Instamotor story.

~~~
thedogeye
Sam Walton visited Montgomery Ward and decided to copy the model. That's the
Walmart story.

~~~
Shivetya
Actually he sprang up from the Ben Franklin franchise store he first bought
and learned a lesson the hard way, a short term lease is a great way to lose a
location based business to an unscrupulous competitor or want to be
competitor. Wal Mart was modeled on Meijer's idea of one stop shopping.

------
cygni
I used Carlypso to sell my Honda Civic a few months ago. Everyone involved was
helpful and professional. I ended up getting a lot more than I would if I
traded it in to CarMax, and the steps involved were minimal. I'd definitely
recommend them.

~~~
callmeed
Which method did you use? (there are 3 options after enter your car info).

I am thinking of selling my Honda Element and the prices offered seem pretty
low.

~~~
cygni
At the time the only option available was "Carlypso Concierge".

Carlypso listed my car slightly under what kbb.com said it was worth, which
was fine with me. I assume this was to speed up sales.

------
spo81rty
One of their biggest competitors is going to be AutoTrader.com and maybe even
similar sites that already have a massive audience on the buying side.
AutoTrader offers a VIP service for selling cars where they talk to people and
take care of some of the stuff you don't want to mess with. I have not used it
myself. But it is about $150-$300.

[https://sell.autotrader.com/syc/vip/package_selection.jsf?zi...](https://sell.autotrader.com/syc/vip/package_selection.jsf?zip=64114)

I don't think very many people even know you can do this with AutoTrader

------
jcr
On the "How It Works" page, there's mention of installing a "Carlypso device"
on the vehicle:

[http://www.carlypso.com/how-it-works/](http://www.carlypso.com/how-it-works/)

> _" 2.We'll send an inspection mechanic, who also attaches our Carlypso
> device"_

I also quickly searched the FAQ for "device":
[http://www.carlypso.com/faqs/](http://www.carlypso.com/faqs/)

I must have overlooked it but are there any details on what a "Carlypso
device" actually is?

~~~
bri3d
According to the TechCrunch article here:

[http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/18/carlypso-could-change-
every...](http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/18/carlypso-could-change-everything-
about-how-we-buy-and-sell-used-cars/)

the device is used to track potential buyers while they're on test drives. So
it's at least got a GPS and some kind of data functionality. It would be smart
if it included OBD-II functionality to see if the test-drive customers are
beating on the car, but I don't see any reference to that kind of feature.

If you watch the video, there's also a license-plate lockbox for the key so
that you never have to deal with a buyer personally.

~~~
toomuchtodo
"It would be smart if it included OBD-II functionality to see if the test-
drive customers are beating on the car, but I don't see any reference to that
kind of feature."

The only metric you'd want from the OBD port is the tach; you can get speed
from GPS, acceleration from your own accelerometer sensor ("flooring it",
stopping hard), etc.

------
davidjade
Who's liable for when your car is test driven and gets in an accident? Or
worst, used in a negligent way. IANAL but I think that car owners can be held
responsible for lending a car that is used by a driver that is found to have
been negligent (google: negligent entrustment).

edit: Just to be clear, I'm talking more about when cars are test drive
without the owner present, as seems to be possible here.

------
roschdal
"The seller never needs to meet the person who buys the car."

Honestly, this sounds like a HUGE risk to me.

~~~
tlb
Compare against the risks of meeting in person with respondents to your used
car ad: [http://www.moneyfile.net/finance-news/dangers-of-selling-
you...](http://www.moneyfile.net/finance-news/dangers-of-selling-your-car-on-
craigslist/)

~~~
krschultz
That sounds like exactly the same risk as meeting a person you met online in
any conceivable way. Online dating, all of Craigslist, even job interviews
have the same risk.

------
incision
Enormous potential.

I would use this in a heartbeat if it were available here.

They could probably get away with twice the rake - the experience of
personally buying/selling a used car is that bad and dealers/Carmax lowball
that low.

Personally, I'd like a service which caters the intersecting possibility of
evaluating and buying cars which need work packaged with bids to complete said
work. Then perhaps I could get my hands on the e39 wagon I've always wanted.

------
mzs
I wonder how they will protect against scumbag sellers. It seems that there is
already a lot of value to just filtering the potential buyers. How can they
protect themselves from a seller being there when the potential buyer shows-up
and then working out a sale on the side? Anyway I've taken advantage of some
of the crazy but cool trades that happen from selling used cars so I'm not
really a customer.

------
zissou
I have been researching the used car market for the last year in an academic
lab. I would love to share stories about data collection and management if
Carlypso folks are interested. Not looking to be a consultant or being
consulted or any kind of a "gig". As I'm sure they know, used car data is a
crazy world of imperfect data points, especially as the car becomes older (>6
years old I'd say data quality begins to break down fast). What proportions of
your data are scraped, purchased, or maybe even obtained from a free API like
Edmunds.com? I doubt you're using Edmunds as I didn't catch any affiliation
info on the site.

I laughed at the "oh yeah that makes sense" story of the big truck being
priced higher in TX. My goto story is always the price of convertibles in the
winter in MN vs. TX, or the price of an AWD sedan in the winter in MN vs. TX.

Speaking of AWD sedans, I know it's a rare car so this is nitpicky but your
2008 Saab 9-3 data classifies a Turbo X as an Aero. Also the Turbo X trim
isn't listed for the wagon. At any rate, your estimate for the Sedan Turbo X
is about 20% too low. Granted they only made 600 for the US market, I was
still bummed that a car which is so dear to me had this issue. Haha, I'm not
trying to be that guy whatsoever! In fact I was happy when I saw Saab was even
listed as a Make as many don't even acknowledge them anymore! :(

Anyways let me know if you guys are up for a friendly talk.

~~~
MITengineer
@ Zissou - I'm Chris a Carlypso Co-Founder. I'm always up for a friendly talk!

Getting the pricing to be reliably accurate was one of the biggest challenges.
We tried many of the third party tools only to realize that most were not
accurate for our needs.

We do a few things that distinguish our pricing from other sources after
realizing no third-party tool worked particularly well. Granted, there are
anomalies but here's a few brief guiding principles:

(1) As you pointed out the region matters - a truck in TX is not the same as
one in central San Francisco. (2) A listing is not the same as a sale. Dealers
often attempt to hold gross margin when a car comes in, then gradually reduce
to market rates to sell the car in a period of 30-45 days (e.g. price it high
to start and then lower it). We measure how long a given car has been listed
on a dealer's site, and often cars listed for a higher price only sell after
they are reduced to a lower price. We can do some validation of the final
negotiation with DMV records and comparing those values to final listing
prices. Fewer and fewer cars have large negotiating margin. (3) You can
measure the relative demand and supply of the vehicle market by looking at the
flow rate of the vehicle relative to the total local market supply (E.g.
measure how many civics sell in a given month relative to how many are
available that month). (4) Everyone claims their vehicle is perfect but every
vehicle we inspect needs some level of refurbishment so we factored that into
our pricing to give "average levels". If a car truly is perfect, we're more
than happy to help sell it for more than we predicted, we just prefer to be
direct and honest upfront rather than reduce prices after the inspection
occurs. (5) The price floor is always set by what someone else would pay in
very short notice. This is most easily observable by looking at auction
values.

As a side-note, pricing a rare car is virtually impossible --- we can only
price cars where there's a significant market and low levels of heterogeneity.
The variance on a 1967 Porsche 912 can't be estimated by traditional models
since a numbers match car with Fuch's wheels and three gauges is worth more
than a restored car with non-numbers match engine, 5 gauges and re-welded
floor pans.

\- Chris

~~~
mzs
I just checked your site out and wanted to give a little feedback since I like
the idea after some mulling.

To buy a car it's somewhat annoying. There is no good way to filter based on
things such as transmission for example or search based on anything at all
such as location or price even. I have to go through the whole list and as you
grow that will be no longer viable, it was already a pita.

Also when I go to an individual car there are very few details. The photos are
good and what a lot of terrible CL ads lack, but it would be nice to have the
specific engine in the car for example since in many cars there are many
options there. I also expected a list of options and standard items like
carmax gives.

Finally you should include the VIN, I always have a friend run it for me
before I even see a car, that has saved me so much time.

Good luck!

------
jqm
I clicked on the article expecting to see "a website that sells used cars" but
claims to change EVERYTHING about the way used cars are sold (no shortage of
these types of start ups)...

I was pleasantly surprised to be wrong. From sending out a certified mechanic
to attaching a device... this really does seem like a good idea and very
cool...

------
nwenzel
I'm buying a car and checked out the service. So much better than randomly
driving around to various lots. It's an improvement on buying from an
individual. Cars have been inspected. No way I'd buy a car without the
inspection. But at a dealer that means the car costs about the same as a new
car.

------
NDizzle
Maybe most people on here aren't car guys, but I'm cruising the current cars
they have up for sale on the site and every single one seems overpriced to me.

The G series MB seems interesting, but I trust a used MB about as far as I can
throw it.

It'll probably be a hit for the masses, but I'll stick to haggling and
craigslist.

~~~
qq66
It's just anecdotal, but I bought a '98 Mercedes with ~120,000 miles for a few
thousand bucks. It's been rock solid for the ~20,000 miles I've put on it
since.

------
rburhum
I sold my car through them early on and recommended a couple of friends to do
the same (they did end up selling through Carlypso, too). What a great
service. I also did a video testimonial because of how much I liked their
service. I can't imagine this startup not taking off.

------
PeterWhittaker
Please come to Ontario. Please!

------
AnimalMuppet
This is great!

Now if they could just expand it to real estate...

~~~
lpolovets
Here's a startup that's planning to do just that:
[http://recode.net/2014/05/23/khoslas-keith-rabois-aiming-
to-...](http://recode.net/2014/05/23/khoslas-keith-rabois-aiming-to-launch-
his-magic-home-selling-site-in-june/)

