
A California Dream - panic
https://mentalfloss.atavist.com/a-california-dream
======
erikpukinskis
Separatist communities often fail. I don't think that is an inevitability, but
one needs to understand the pitfalls.

One of them is caused by geographic separation. Without either proximity or
regular public transit to a nearby population center, you lose your ability to
market the community to potential new members. Like Apple, or Tesla, in order
to break into an entrenched market you need visibility in high foot traffic
locations. Regular festivals that draw crowds, retreats, etc, can help.

The other big one is unity of vision. Many of these communities lay down very
specific rules in their bylaws. But humans tend to go through cycles in their
ability to stomach group strictures, no matter how noble their intentions.
Without an outlet on the property for counterculture, residents are pushed out
every time you go through one of these cycles. Often these strictures come
from a central personality. See Arcosanti and Paulo Soleri's refusal to
entertain young anarchists vision for the place.

I would also say many of these communities fail because they don't separate
enough from mainstream governance concepts. Many require you to make a big
financial investment up front, or use a democratic governance model. Neither
of those should be necessary in the age of microfinance and cryptogovernance,
but we're only human, and it's hard for us to give up old habits.

And lastly, poor generational diversity is huge. Most of these communities die
of old age, with a few geriatrics keeping the dream alive while their secular
children live as close as they can, but outside the "community". You must have
immigrants in every single age bracket throughout the life of the collective.
As soon as you miss a generation you make it exponentially harder to recruit
for the following one.

I would be interested to see a city concept based on freedom. Big enough for
good separation between activity centers, and designed to support bifurcation
of governance as much as unity. "What if we didn't have to agree?" would be
the motto. Not "should you be allowed to do that?" but "if one were to do
that, where would the best place for it be?"

~~~
Alfredo123
> Not "should you be allowed to do that?"

Can people be allowed to own guns ? Can ISPs be allowed to provide
differential bandwidth ? Can people be allowed to hold men only screening of
Wonder Woman ? Can people be allowed to hold draw a muhammad event ?

Everyone has their own exception to freedom.

~~~
erikpukinskis
I'm not advocating for unbridled freedom, that's a paradox. What I said was
there needs to be _equal_ care given to supporting disagreement as there is
for agreement. Similar to the way we have different political structures for
states rights and federal rights in the U.S.

------
FTA
This reminds me of another similar type of failed settlement around the same
time: Rio Grande Estates in central New Mexico.

New York Times story about it:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/realestate/high-hopes-
and-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/realestate/high-hopes-and-
worthless-land.html)

OpenStreetMap showing the area (mostly from US Census TIGER):
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/34.5005/-106.6235](http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/34.5005/-106.6235)

An advertisement of the property:
[http://books.google.com/books?id=RlUEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA89-IA2&lp...](http://books.google.com/books?id=RlUEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA89-IA2&lpg=PA89-IA2&dq=life+magazine+rio+grande+estates&source=bl&ots=4S4zzkjr0a&sig=hXR2di9qYyDrCyHcT__9-Ai2h4k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Qh9iULCBOaariALk-4GwDg&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=true)

~~~
jcrawfordor
Rio Communities was a project by the Horizon Land Corporation which left
similar failed projects throughout the Southwest and has since often been
accused of running an outright scam.

In the meantime, Rio Rancho is a functioning suburb to the NW of Albuquerque
but was originally planned to be much, much larger than it is today and has a
road grid stretching far into the distance, not all of which is even in the
modern city limits.

At the same time, huge new developments are currently underway in the
Albuquerque area (Mesa Del Sol, Santolina), suggesting that this boom and bust
cycle may continue today.

I have some info and photos about both California City and the Rio Communities
on my website:
[https://jbcrawford.us/travelogue/mojave2016](https://jbcrawford.us/travelogue/mojave2016)
[https://jbcrawford.us/travelogue/nmfailed](https://jbcrawford.us/travelogue/nmfailed)

~~~
jfoutz
Rio Rancho is now a functioning suburb, but it was originally a scam as well,
along with Paradise hills and another i don't recall. Rio Rancho is,
amusingly, what they're selling in Glengarry Glen Ross[1]

[1]
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104348/synopsis](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104348/synopsis)

------
simonebrunozzi
I am working on something that, well, somewhat resembles what Mendelsohn did
with California city.

You can read a bit more about it here [shameless plug, but I feel it's
relevant]: [https://medium.com/the-naked-founder/crypto-
city-5d48a33a9f4...](https://medium.com/the-naked-founder/crypto-
city-5d48a33a9f40)

~~~
jpm_sd
While I think your business plan needs a lot of work, I am very sympathetic to
your goals and inspiration. I have often thought that the California hills
would benefit from "borgo" style development.

~~~
simonebrunozzi
Of course it does :)

Would you be so kind to provide more specific feedback, or doubts/suggestions?
Either here, or email me (simone dot brunozzi at gmail...). Thanks.

------
phlakaton
Driving through California, one gets used to the name "City" being thrown
about for quite modest settlements: King City, Kettleman City, Amador City,
and the like. I've seen the name California City on the drive across the
Mojave from the Bay Area to Las Vegas, and figured it was another such
ambitiously-named hamlet. Little did I suspect it was an invisible
megalopolis!

------
sideband
Southern Florida has several cities like this. A few have been somewhat
successful:

[https://www.google.com/maps/@26.9825804,-82.1857099,31160m/d...](https://www.google.com/maps/@26.9825804,-82.1857099,31160m/data=!3m1!1e3)
[https://www.google.com/maps/@26.6300975,-81.9789861,24756m/d...](https://www.google.com/maps/@26.6300975,-81.9789861,24756m/data=!3m1!1e3)

Others, not so much:

[https://www.google.com/maps/@26.6204017,-81.6442622,17018m/d...](https://www.google.com/maps/@26.6204017,-81.6442622,17018m/data=!3m1!1e3)

There's also this curious region which started as a land scam but ended up
becoming a somewhat lawless area now ruled by a hunting club:

[https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7771326,-81.3102668,7540m/da...](https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7771326,-81.3102668,7540m/data=!3m1!1e3)

The place is dangerous and violent but remote, and authorities keep their
distance. It feels strange to think that a place like this exists an hours
drive from Disney World.

~~~
oh_sigh
Can you talk more about the lawless hunting club-ruled area? Or provide a name
for more research - it's hard to tell exactly which feature is being pointed
to on the map you linked.

~~~
sideband
It's called River Ranch Acres and on the map it's the area south of Highway
60/Hesperides Rd and east of Highway 630 E with the dirt roads throughout. The
Triple Canopy Ranch to the west mostly surrounded by a canal (moat?) is not
part of it. I believe there is a book titled "Redneck Riviera" written by a
man who inherits some land there and attempts to take possession of it.

------
cbhl
Apparently Lyft runs their end-to-end tests in California City. Roads
positioned just like those in a real city, but without people who would
actually need to use the service.

------
Implicated
Have been there for the off-roading on Thanksgiving. Can confirm the # of
people is insane. The abandoned grid is pretty nice when you're trying to meet
up with other people in dune buggies and dirt bikes... meet at the corner of x
and y - and it works.

~~~
lloyddobbler
Yep. I started my skydiving career in California City. We used to skydive into
Central Park every 4th of July before the fireworks show. It was an amazing
place to learn to skydive, because if you happened to land out (happens a lot
with newer jumpers), there were never obstacles - and there was always a road
nearby where someone could come to pick you up. Heck, at one point a friend of
mine landed so far off the dropzone that the pilot simply touched the plane
down on the dirt road, picked him up, and flew him back to the airport.

(We also could use the grid to visually eyeball distance from up top).

The dropzone had been around since the 1960s, when there was a decent amount
of activity at the airport (including airshows, balloon rides, pilot training,
etc). Like most things in Cal City, it closed ~10 years ago, which did away
with another item that lured outsiders into the area. Now, it's pretty much
only the off-roading that brings people in.

Definitely a surreal place (but one that is unique and quirky...& has some
great memories).

------
jmspring
Salton City is briefly mentioned in the article. It and the Salton Sea are
quite interesting places to visit and are certainly worth checking out. Parts
of it are incredibly creepy, parts quite beautiful in a barren and lonely
sense.

~~~
RangerScience
If you can make it during daylight, I also recommend checking out East Jesus
in Slab city at the south end of the Salton Sea. It's wacky awesome weird
place, the you can (safely) ask the folks at East Jesus for tips on safely
checking out more of Slab City (not that there's that much more).

~~~
prawn
Bombay Beach can be an eye-opener.

~~~
jmspring
And a place one should be careful/vigilant.

------
theandrewbailey
Tom Scott toured this place:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO3LUhFwx6k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO3LUhFwx6k)

------
Mz
_She explained that most people in Cal City, as locals call it, work at the
correctional center outside town, the borax mine nearby, or a Hyundai-KIA
proving ground for testing cars._

I had a class in Economic Geography. Cities grow where there are resources to
support them. Most major cities, like New York, San Francisco and L.A., sprout
up and boom due to natural ports that can be easily developed. A river meets
the ocean or there is some sort of bay or quirk of the coastline. It takes
little or nothing to start using it as a port. Traffic begets development.

This is why where we lay infrastructure like highways and rail lines can be
such a heated debate. When cars began, the world had dirt and cobblestone
streets. This was not sufficient. Proper roads developed.

During The Great Depression, people fled the Dust Bowl and arrived in
California to start over. The route they traveled became the famed Route 66.
The exodus birthed small towns along the way.

When interstates became the new norm, the towns along Route 66 mostly died.
The traffic was diverted from roads that ran through the middle of town to
roads that went around the town.

I quoted the snippet above because there is a borax mine -- a natural resource
that fosters job creation -- and a correctional center. Prisons tend to be
built in the middle of nowhere. No one wants to live near them. They do
attract some development because they provide jobs. These are often federal or
state government jobs. They can pay well, be secure and come with good
benefits. They are worth putting up with some inconvenience.

Lots of good federal and state jobs involve some degree of burden. Military
jobs, jobs at nuclear plants and so on can be a burden for the person who
holds the job. When I was a military wife, military spouses had something like
a 30% unemployment rate compared to about 6% or so for the general population.
Locals don't want to hire military spouses because they know you are going to
move again when the military member gets assigned elsewhere.

But the other reason unemployment is so high for military members is because
it is a job with excellent benefits. The entire family has access to good
medical care, most of it outright free. You just show your ID card to access
it.

Military benefits have eroded in recent decades. They are making more of an
effort to charge the insurance of employed spouses and a lot of small things
have gone away. But it is still a situation where it is possible to make the
traditional nuclear family with one breadwinner and one homemaker work. Money
will be tight, but lack of savings is not a problem. If you stay in 20 years
or more, you will get a retirement check for life and continue to get access
to medical benefits and other benefits.

Wow, I seem to be rambling. My point is that sprawling cities don't just
randomly pop up. They start with geographic resources, usually including
waterways because water is critical for life and waterways provide
transportation options. Once established, they may have an accumulation of
intellectual capital, material capital, etc that grows them further.

Hershey, PA was laid out from scratch. But it was laid out from scratch by the
Hershey company. It was a company town. They built their new factory there and
built housing for their employees. It was naturally seeded in this way and had
no problem attracting other businesses to serve the population. It is
technically an unincorporated community, but (according to Wikipedia) it has
more than 14k residents and has amenities like a local library.

There has to be a reason to move there. This is why these sorts of schemes so
consistently fail. There is no real raison d'etre.

~~~
tkxxx7
> Wow, I seem to be rambling.

Funny, I was just noting how much I enjoy the way you explain things.

> Locals don't want to hire military spouses because they know you are going
> to move again when the military member gets assigned elsewhere.

I'm curious - how would they know?

~~~
Mz
If you are housed on base, your address can be a dead giveaway. If you are an
American living in a foreign country with an American base, the odds are good
that you are a military spouse. If it is a small town near a base, newcomers
tend to be military dependents. They want to sell to you, but they don't want
to hire you.

They sometimes just frame it as "We are looking for people who will stay with
the company long term." and ask a question concerning how long you hope to
stay with the company. If you are honest and tell them that you expect to move
again within 3 years, sorry, we don't want you.

------
r00fus
The developer of this community was the same one that dreamed up Salton Sea
[1] community.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea)

------
russellbeattie
In 100 years, when electricity is essentially free, desalination plants dot
the coast, and California's population nears 100 million people, this place
will be a boom town.

~~~
acchow
Energy will probably never be "essentially free" even if solar photovoltaics
end up being very cheap and require zero maintenance because it still requires
land which is scarce. Also, as energy gets cheaper, each person will consume
more of it and we'll create products that consume more of it. So $0.0001 per
kWh might sound "essentially free" to us, but it will not be in the high-
energy-usage consumption of the future.

~~~
oh_sigh
Do you have any ideas about how American consumers could end up using
significantly more(~100x) energy than they do now?

I'm guessing people 100 years ago didn't suspect that we would use as much as
we do now, because they probably didn't see either the mere possibility, or
widespread adoption of whole house climate control, electric water heaters,
induction ovens, electric dryers, electric cars, so it isn't very surprising
to me that nothing is immediately popping into my head, but I'm curious if
anyone has any thoughts on this matter.

~~~
majormajor
Some idle speculation: * Self driving cars kill walking and urban development,
make things even more suburban by removing one of the major current downsides
of car travel * Further migration out of colder northern climates to
increasingly hot southern areas leads to more and more air conditioning usage
* Instead of batched shopping trips once a week, or even postal-service-level
delivery aggregation, everything is delivered on-demand at a one-off energy
expense * Similarly, maybe some sort of robotic daily clothes and dishes
cleaning instead of only doing it when there's a full load? * Active
temperature-regulating clothing? Now I feel like I'm reaching more and more :)

------
notadoc
Looks like a decent location for a large scale solar farm?

~~~
klodolph
I don't think California is exactly short on places to build solar farms...

~~~
maxxxxx
Pretty much 90% of southern California should be a solar farm :)

------
45h34jh53k4j
The three biggest silicon valley firms should buy up all the land, buy new
campuses and house for all the workers.

Would reduce strain on bay area and its only a few hours south so good
connectivity.

~~~
romanovcode
Yeah, because who doesn't want to live in the desert, right?

