
Polymagnets - iheredia
http://www.polymagnet.com/polymagnets/
======
Animats
The machine for making those has been around for several years.[1] TechShop in
San Francisco has one, along with the design software. I've never seen it
used. The machine for making them is just an XY table with a small, high power
magnetizing coil; it's the design software that's the clever part.

An obvious application is self-aligning connectors. Magnetic connectors have
been around for years, but, like Apple's discontinued magnetic charger plug,
they usually have some mechanical alignment guides. A completely flat
connector is now possible.

[1] [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1e2t6n_cmr-correlated-
magn...](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1e2t6n_cmr-correlated-magnetics-
research-magprinter_tech)

~~~
lowglow
Is this the "Magnetic printer" thing they have collecting dust in the corner
there? I've always wondered what that was but never found any information on
it. I thought it was just some one off.

~~~
Animats
That's it. There's software for the MagPrinter on some of the TechShop
computers. There's a class for it.[1]

[1]
[http://www.techshop.ws/take_classes.html?storeId=4&categoryI...](http://www.techshop.ws/take_classes.html?storeId=4&categoryId=28#1165)

~~~
fezz
OT question: how do you like TechShop? Still waiting for one here in LA.
Although wish they'd pick a location further west, like culver city.

~~~
gregschlom
I was an active TechShop member in July / August 2015 to build an art project
for Burning Man [1]. My friend and I were there Monday through Friday, it felt
like it was our office.

Overall, the experience was very good, we learned a ton of things, met
interesting people, such as a guy who explained in details how to use that
magnet printer, and some mechanical engineers building a cool sandwich-making
robot which later turned out to be a YC company. We had a lot of fun.

However, as soon as our project was completed, we discontinued our membership.
TechShop's pricing is weird: it's either insanely cheap if you're working on a
project full time (I would have paid 2 times the amount no problem), or it's
prohibitively expensive if you're just there 2-3 times a month.

[1] [http://flowandwonder.com](http://flowandwonder.com)

~~~
bigiain
Nice project and write up! (I didn't make it there last year, so I didn't see
it...)

Curious, was this a first BM project? (It's certainly up at the level of
complexity that very often completely misses the deadline and either gots take
out to the desert half-done, taken out a year later than planned, or abandoned
altogether.)

~~~
gregschlom
Hi! Thanks for the kind words. Yes, this was a first BM project - a first
hardware project, really. I had never played with microcontrollers or CNC
machines before. The fact that everything worked on first try, on schedule,
came as a major surprise to everybody, myself included.

I think the key is to choose your complexity. Some things may look complex,
but they are actually just the juxtaposition of some simple, repeated
elements.

Ironically (speaking as a software engineer), the one thing that we didn't
finish on time was the software. We ended up running some simple code to power
the colors, as opposed to the fancy fluid simulation that I had originally
envisioned ([http://gregschlom.com/flow-and-
wonder/](http://gregschlom.com/flow-and-wonder/))

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mrestko
They should use real video on their homepage instead of CGI. I immediately
thought this had to be a scam until I watched the Smarter Every Day video
linked in the commments.

~~~
ricardobeat
This was originally posted as a link to the Smarter Every Day video a few
hours ago. Policies...

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deelowe
I'm very surprised these haven't taken off by now. They seem extremely useful
and these guys have been pushing them for several months now if not longer.

~~~
funkyy
The one thing that prevents them from entering customer market in every day
use is that magnets can affect many things.

Simple example - I had cover for my phone with a magnet closure. It wasnt
affecting my phone in any way, but few times I put parking card next to it and
it wiped out all the information from it forcing me to chasing parking office
to get it re-printed.

~~~
function_seven
But wouldn't this be the solution to your problem? If the pole reversals are
tightly packed, it looks like the field lines could be designed to not affect
other objects, even in close proximity.

~~~
funkyy
As long as facing right direction. Its just one example and actually quite
good - I would keep initially the ticket inside of the case, so it would come
close to magnet anyways.

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personjerry
Even it looks pretty cool, they're unlikely to get adoption because it's not
clear to their target market what their benefit is. One way to solve this is
to actually take one of the applications and do it themselves and drive
interest in the technology.

~~~
azinman2
I disagree. They show spring-type applications, things precisely going back to
alignment, etc. Industrial engineers should be able to take these higher-level
concepts and put them in their toolchest

~~~
Already__Taken
If they can vary the spring distance by current and not design they could make
for interesting valve replacement in ICEs.

~~~
Natanael_L
With a mix of permamagnetic polymagnets, electropermanent magnet arrays plus
classical electromagnets, you could definitely do that.

You could have certain static guiding patterns, switchable EPM arrays for
creating modifiable sub-patterns (and strengths) within the static ones, and
the electromagnets for finely adjusting strengths and for pulling objects
around.

For one, EPM:s could be used for programmable attachment/removal to a magnetic
guiding system by either attracting an object with the polymagnet spring
mechanism and then letting it into a magnetic rail, or by pushing it off by
mirroring its magnetic field.

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iheredia
[https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=2m1s](https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=2m1s)

~~~
bewaretheirs
especially:

[https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=5m46s](https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=5m46s)

and

[https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=6m28s](https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=6m28s)

I want one just as a desk toy.

~~~
notatoad
[https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=5m46s](https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=5m46s)

and

[https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=6m28s](https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=6m28s)

(links fixed)

~~~
bewaretheirs
oops, thanks.

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Natanael_L
I'm imagining how this could be used for board of games (magnetic dice and
boards, changing the landing paths and probabilities of outcomes, and much
more), and for hinges (imagine multitools with a few magnets used as switches
to lock/unlock and open it up one-handed), etc...

Combine this tech with electropermanent magnets like Project Ara originally
was set to use (an array of switchable small magnets) and you could do
ridiculously cool things!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet)

~~~
Natanael_L
Since I can't edit the comment above anymore;

I thought of another thing: you could use a combo of permanent and
electropermanent magnets with a magnetometer to make buttons on a surface that
are flat across the surface when the device is off, and that raises up to a
specific distance when switched on (like the polymagnet spring example that
when rotated becomes attractive like a regular magnet).

Then you also adjust the magnetism so that at a given distance you can feel a
"click" feedback when you push the button down. You could even have
controllable variable resistance and click depth, depending on what you're
doing. A gaming mode, a typing mode, a casual mode, etc...

No need for mechanical switches and buttons, just an attachment to hold the
buttons in place.

So you could have a completely flat folding keyboard that then has the buttons
raise up like on a standard keyboard, feeling like a standard keyboard, yet
with 10x the longevity.

Better yet: make a surface with an array of electropermanent magnets and
magnetometers, let each key have a Qr code like magnetic pattern with
"magnetic anchors" plus a key identifier, and then you can place arbitary keys
in arbitary positions to make yourself a keyboard looking however you want
with no other manual work than key placement!

You could even have keys that can rotate or slide and even have switches, and
the keyboard's magnetometers would identify the key patterns and your computer
would download the instructions for parsing the inputs from that key.

------
542458
Those are a lot cheaper than I was expecting - I'm seeing $3.60 for most
units.

~~~
Klathmon
Someone needs to give this company a marketing budget...

Is there a catch i'm really not getting, because these seem WAY too good to be
true, and i'm really surprised that they aren't being used literally
everywhere already.

~~~
lambdadmitry
One of catches that I can think of is a danger of swallowing a couple of them.
For example, there is a special regulation regarding small magnets in objects
that children can access. If they cling inside a body through some tissue, one
will need a very nasty emergency surgery. It's not made easier by the fact
that most surgical instruments are made from steel.

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stryk
Somebody needs to get a few of these to Ben Heckendorn (Ben Heck @ Newark
a.k.a. element14's Youtube channel), as well as a tutorial on designing them
and let him run with it. There's some incredible things to be made from these
-- my first thought was some custom pinball play-field uses, crazy stuff that
couldn't be done without these "magnets with custom 3d-printable mag-field
paths". Among many other awesome ideas I'm sure he'd use them for.

~~~
kriro
Since I'm currently trying to convince myself not to buy a pinball table that
was one of my first initial thoughts as well. They should probably get in
contact with an engineer from Stern.

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mhandley
The examples all seem to only work in two dimensions. "Spring" and "latch"
need external alignment to keep them on the same axis, and "align" only works
when the magnets are touching. Is that just because the magnets themselves are
flat? Can you use this technology to do stable 3-dimensional positioning?
There are all sorts of possibilities for frictionless bearings and so forth if
you can.

~~~
koverstreet
No, you can't - Earnshaw's theorem

~~~
spenczar5
Earnshaw's theorem describes stationary charges. If the charges or magnets are
constantly in motion, it might not apply.

~~~
fanf2
The Levitron top demonstrates that it doesn't:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitron](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitron)

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vog
The videos are really great.

The animations are so easy to understand, they could have produced them
without any sound, and they would still be internationally comprehensible.
Also, without sound they could have reduced the pauses to at most half of
their length. As of now, these pauses make the videos a bit boring to watch.

But they should have used real videos instead of computer animations - that
would have been even more convincing.

~~~
Already__Taken
The layout was nice to watch all 4 muted videos at once though.

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myfonj
What a pity those "springs" were not called "empties" as a "Roadside Picnic"
tribute.

~~~
beejamin
First thing I thought of, too! If it helps, 'Empties' were renamed 'Springs'
in the game STALKER.

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spyder
Maybe they could use it to store data... oh wait...

So isn't this the same tech used in magnetic data storages just with bigger
and stronger magnetic fields?

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nraynaud
I asked the same question on youtube: how is that different from fridge
magnets whose Halbach arrays are printed directly too.

~~~
Kliment
Mainly in that you can customize the pattern. As far as I know the fridge
magnets are a series of N/S stripes that are made by driving a long coil with
AC and running the film past it at a speed tied to the mains frequency.

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ycosynot
I'm strangely excited, hopefully not because of all the pistons. My favorites
are Spring and Align.

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matheweis
I wonder what the environmental constraints and strength of these are relative
to neodymium magnets...? I could see them being used to reduce the cost and /
or increase the efficiency of small brushless motors.

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paulo-tanaka
Patent for their magnet printer:
[https://www.google.com/patents/US9105384](https://www.google.com/patents/US9105384)

~~~
Retric
HDD's / Tape ect may actually qualify as prior art. So, the patent is probably
not that broad.

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eximius
I hope they come up with all sorts of interesting applications for this...

But I just want a floating table. Sometimes making the world a cooler place is
good too :D

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kriro
So the magnets are essentially programmable and "3d printable"? I know nothing
about magnets...can you "wipe" them and reprint with a different pattern? If
so and the 3d printer can be reasonably miniaturized I'm envisioning a robot
with an attached mini 3d printer that can print task specific magnet tools :D

~~~
Natanael_L
These are the kind of permanent magnets that you magnetize with currents and
strong magnetic fields, so yes. You can alter their magnetic fields by
exposing them to adjusted currents and magnetizing fields that undoes the
original magnetization and remagnetizes them.

Note that your robot won't be very small - you need a lot of current, and thus
cooling if the programmer is small, batteries that's big enough and you need
to avoid ferromagnetic objects in the surroundings = shielding.

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SeanDav
I wonder how precise the alignment is? Potentially if it is low sub millimetre
precision it could be very useful.

~~~
hanniabu
I believe the accuracy you want depends on the coupling faces of the magnet.
If you have 3 or more 'spots' that match up of equal size and mirrored
placement, I'm quite sure the alignment would continuously be sub millimeter,
but this assumes there's no external force on the magnets since an inward
force could create substantial friction to keep the alignment from being
perfect. Likewise with a lateral force.

If you want it to be less accurate and leave some room for error then I'm sure
you can offset each mirrored 'spot' off slightly in different directions so
they're all equally lop sided with respect to each other.

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nyc_cyn
What's an example of a product that could be created with this technology that
would be difficult otherwise?

~~~
chakalakasp
Frictionless gears? That'd be pretty handy on a trying-to-be-quiet nuclear
submarine.

~~~
VLM
Google for "weston bye magnetic gear clock". Note its not as convenient as you
might think... no ferrous material in the construction or it'll build up on
the magnets until it hits something, and no pendulum designs, or none with
conductive material due to magnetic braking.

It turns out the inherent mechanical limitations override the low friction
advantages pretty much everywhere.

For practical engineering work most frictionless applications either need to
handle 100+ HP to make economic sense, which isn't happening, or what they
really need is sensing with no stick/slip friction and we have rather advanced
and cheap optical position sensors and other non-contact sensors now a days.

~~~
TrevorJ
I'm skeptical of the friction-less claim: isn't there drag induced by the
varying magnetic fields?

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deutronium
Sounds very fascinating, I've skimmed through a couple of their pdfs but
couldn't see, is there one that explains how they create them?

~~~
jfoutz
in the youtube video below, they show shots of the hardware.

I don't know what the material is. My guess is they have a print head that
will generate a real strong real small magnetic field, they walk the print
head over the base material reversing the field in specific spots. that's what
it looks like to me anyway.

~~~
deutronium
Cheers, yeah it sounds like you're right

"Multipole magnetic devices may be constructed from discrete permanent
magnets,

or by exposing heated magnetizable material to a coded magnetic field." \-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_magnet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_magnet)

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schappim
I predict Apple is going to buy this company.

~~~
anonbanker
If not, Tesla probably will.

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journeeman
Software-defined magnetism?

~~~
Natanael_L
That would be electropermanent magnets

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joering2
Is this any difference to a platter of Hard Drive, under magnifying glass?

~~~
PhasmaFelis
At the very least, hard drive platters exhibit no discernible macroscopic
magnetic force, i.e. put a piece of metal on one and it won't even twitch.

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jerryhuang100
does this mean supercheap maglev (hyperloop?) is nigh if we put some carefully
designed Polymagnets patterns aligned on a track for near-zero power
transportation?

or maybe enen railgun in your palm.

~~~
ChuckMcM
No, but it does suggest that you could make patterned magnetic rails and
riders such that you had a non-contact bearing surface. By patterning the rail
and rider with gray codes you could insure that in all orientations they
maintained some "push".

They would need a machine to pattern the rails though, and it would remain to
be seen how durable such a bearing would be, especially if it got too warm.

~~~
jacquesm
You'd need a balancing trick besides just the magnets otherwise you'll end up
with a positive feedback loop terminating in contact, but there are some
interesting ways around this (that you can also 'roll out' to apply linearly):

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_bearing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_bearing)

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xyproto
How long do they last? Do they weaken over time?

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jacquesm
Many years, and yes.

All magnets will slowly demagnetize but it is so slow that no matter what your
application you'll be fine as long as you don't repeatedly impact the magnet
and you don't heat it above a certain temperature.

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hugi
How do they work!

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todd8
An array of, say p, individual magnets some aligned with N up and some with S
up produces a field that can be designed to repel or attract a second array of
, say q, magnets (having a possibly different arrangement). What is
interesting is that since the forces between any two of the individual little
magnets in the arrays drops off non-linearly (inversely proportional to the
square of the distance) a computer can be used to layout the p magnets in one
array and the q in the other so that the aggregate force between the two
arrays (i.e. the sum of all the p*q forces between all of the magnets in the
two array) is attractive at some distances or orientations of the two arrays
and repulsive at other distances or orientations.

Imaging a simple linear arrangement of the two magnet arrays. If both look
like N S N S N S N S then as the two arrangements slide past each other they
will alternately repulse each other (i.e. N against N) and attract each other
(N against S). This is just a simple illustration of the principle. Watch the
video in the linked article from which this can be gathered and more.

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ibarrajo
We already had this, it's called a hard drive

