
Clover: An all-in-one notebook - robenkleene
https://cloverapp.co/
======
Waterluvian
For what it’s worth (and maybe I’m just dumb). It took me a lot of scrolling
to realize they weren’t selling hardware.

~~~
vnair
Honestly had the exact same thought

~~~
mchusma
Me too. I thought it had a new minimalist OS too.

------
smetj
Where, how and in in which format is my data stored? First question I have ...

~~~
ganafagol
Same here. If that key question is not answered but instead they try to
convince me by showing off customizable colors, I know I'm out.

------
triyambakam
I used to be obsessed with trying new note taking apps, but I've been the
happiest and most productive using Vim and Markdown on my laptop synced via
Syncthing to my phone and editing with Markor. I've used Vim for as long as I
could program, so I am embarrassed that it took me so long to set this up (a
few months ago) but I finally don't care about note taking apps.

Edit: sometimes I print my notes and for that I use the Vim plugin
MarkdownPreview to render to the browser, then print there

~~~
mark_l_watson
Me to, then I just stopped. The enabling moment came when I found a free app
that backs up Apple Notes in a portable format. I use the iCloud.com web app
on my Linux laptops to access notes, and on my copious Apple devices, the
Notes app is easy to use.

Some sad history: I spent years carefully making notes and organizing material
in Evernote but realized that I spent much more time curating material than
ever using it.

~~~
hboon
Can you share that app that backs up Apple Notes?

~~~
mark_l_watson
The app is called Exporter.

Try searching the macOS store for “Exporter Notes”

~~~
hboon
Thanks!

------
nxc18
Very interesting. This feels like a fusion of my favorite tools: OneNote and
Todoist. The command line is a great feature - Todoist executes on it well,
also the Outlook app but on macOS only for some reason.

This appears to solve a major gripe with OneNote: it is really hard to style
and get things looking like I want them to. It also lacks formatted code
display - the whole Office suite is surprisingly very behind here. It’s a
shame, since I know at least in the past MS used word for their internal
technical documentation, so they should be feeling this pain daily.

The competition is fierce, but the offering appears strong enough to overcome
my “it’s just another note taking app, haven’t they heard of OneNote”
instinct. As a user I’m hoping that OneNote and Doist will pull an Instagram
and copy some or all of these features.

I love using software that inspires me with its design.

~~~
freeone3000
If you write the code in Visual Studio and paste it into Word, it preserves
Visual Studio formatting. This is what's used instead of putting code
formatting into Office.

------
krono
All I want is basically Notion with an API, and the ability to self-host our
data to mitigate security and privacy concerns.

~~~
chank
All I want is Notion with data privacy like Bear.

~~~
Otek
Exactly, something like Notion that keeps my data encrypted on my iCloud like
Bear with native iOS and Mac app similar to Things3. I could easily pay 100
bucks for this kind of setup.

------
emaro
Looks pretty clean. I wonder about a) pricing / distribution model and b)
compatibility with other tools i.e. if you use open formats.

Note: Displaying email addresses in uppercase is bad UX, since emails are
mostly, but _not always_ case insensitive.

~~~
system2
One time only: Yes. Recurring monthly: NEVER.

There are bazillion apps out there, mostly free or comes with free tier.
Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would never consider. Just my opinion.

~~~
jwr
> Recurring monthly: NEVER. [...] Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would never
> consider.

And yet, you likely expect regular updates when the OS is updated, a constant
stream of bug fixes, and (probably) some improvements. In other words, you
expect regular development for a one-time fee of $9.99 or lower.

$9.99 is the cost of about 5 minutes of a skilled programmer's time.

This is not realistic and definitely not sustainable.

~~~
prerok
And yet, we expect games to be at this price or lower with the same hard
constraints and I would argue they take even more work.

That's just the economy of scale. I also think that anything beyond $10 is too
pricey. Monthly plan? No way.

~~~
jwr
In other words, we expect "others" to pay for us through economies of scale.
This might work for top-tier video games, but it definitely does not work for
niche software.

~~~
prerok
Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it reaches
a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount. Number of
customers times the price and you get your expected income. If that is too low
then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing money.

Consider, if your argument is taken to its absurd extreme, then you would have
to pay for full development of any software you use by yourself. Just running
Windows or MacOS would cost you millions if not billions of dollars.

Edit, addendum: you can also view it that the money needed for development is
then covered distributedly among the customers. Nobody is expecting others to
pay for them but the expense is too big for a few customers to cover it (at
least for this type of software).

~~~
jwr
> Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it
> reaches a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount.
> Number of customers times the price and you get your expected income. If
> that is too low then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing
> money.

I hope it doesn't come to that. Because then we'd only end up with apps like
Fortnite, Adobe Photoshop, and Microsoft Office. All the specialized apps
would be gone, and if you need something in an industry that just isn't that
large, well tough luck, because at $9.99/app the developers won't ever make a
living.

Look, it's fine to only need mass-market apps. But let other people make niche
apps and charge an amount that results in sustainable software development,
without criticizing them for subscription pricing.

Subscription pricing is the only sustainable way to maintain a niche app.

------
alphagrep12345
Why is there an abundance of note taking apps? Why is it that this particular
category of software/apps sees a new one every now and then?

~~~
ChefboyOG
TL;DR: I think this is down to the convergence of some perennial dynamics, and
the recent success of apps like Notion, as another commenter alluded to.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. As someone for whom research +
writing are a primary component of daily work, I'm probably a little too
willing to play with new note taking apps :)

I think the recent surge is actually a convergence of several different
trends:

1\. There's always been a decent volume of new note taking apps, in large part
because of how tempting they are as a project. They feel both approachable
(until you try to build one), and they're such a familiar-yet-blank canvas
that it's incredibly easy to come up with a "tweak" that makes yours
different.

2\. The love people have for Notion, and the so-far success of the company,
have made it a more attractive niche for more serious startup-y people. Where
you used to see more solo projects, you're now seeing a decent amount of apps
built by full teams.

3\. Human nature. While I am the first to evangelize the impact taking better
notes can have, it has also been my experience that note taking systems are
the ultimate bike shed problem. It's easy to tinker with them and try new apps
out, believing that you'll find the perfect system that will unlock your inner
genius. I think a lot of project management and productivity software has a
similar thing going.

~~~
jrimbault
re 1. In my experience, it's often the first vague idea for a school project a
teacher will give their students.

Personnally, like many things, I've built a custom script _atop git_ to manage
my notes. And another to manage a journal. And another, and another. Just
building off of git.

------
jeswin
It took me a lot of scrolling to realize they don't even have a product yet -
it's just a wait list.

------
hestefisk
The command prompt aspect is quite interesting. But it is going to be tough
competing with OneNote (free), which is a pretty decent app.

------
RyanDeLap
Looks pretty cool. Any other information on how this may be different to
Notion?

~~~
dersoi
My first thought too. I feel this is meant to be more chaotic in someway:
being able to put all the information raw and rearrange them easily, whereas
Notion feels more like documentation, where your data has to fit a template.

------
RobKohr
My all in one notebook:

* Dropbox folder called Notebook

* Has a file called Notebook.md which has links to other files: Tasks.md (to do lists with date headers), Blog.md, etc

* VSC with some markdown extensions
    
    
       * Markdown All In One
    
       * Markdown Preview Enhanced
    
       * mushan.vscode-paste-image
    

Doesn't do great as far as mobile note taking, but aside from that, its
ability to organize is limitless.

------
whatthefunc
Another notes app...?

~~~
ZephyrBlu
Yeah but this one is an all-in-one notebook for creatives!

~~~
code_scrapping
Because Evernote is too formal? Let me slap-on some ComicSans on my notes...

------
kanobo
Congrats to the team, looks very useful. I was an early customer of the Macaw
App from the same creator(s?) and was excited for its development and had
deeply integrated it into my projects but they got aquihired then all
development stopped and bugs frozen in place... honestly didn't feel good and
left me wary of new apps like these. Anyways, hopefully this one has a long
bright future.

~~~
errantspark
I have similar thoughts. I don't see how I could trust my notes to someone
else, besides the obvious privacy implications I just don't feel like it makes
sense to rely on someone else for something important like this. I want the
data on my computer, and I want to be able to use the version of the software
I like and not be forced to update to increasingly awful garbage as they try
desperately to grow enough for an IPO or whatever the fuck. Yes, I am still
very bitter about Evernote, why do you ask?

------
tobr
It looks very pretty, but leaves me wondering what is the problem I’d have
where Clover is better than other note-taking apps?

This is a common problem with product landing pages like these. They show off
some cool features but don’t do a good job connecting them together as a clear
vision that demonstrates insight about the intended users’ situation.

------
steveharman
Needs to have browser plugins for desktop and "share to" option from mobile,
for noting web content / URLs.

Hopefully it will.

------
m0ngr31
Looks like a much more refined and finished product than my own notebook app:
[https://github.com/m0ngr31/DailyNotes](https://github.com/m0ngr31/DailyNotes)

I wonder how it compares to Noteplan (my original inspiration).

~~~
ZephyrBlu
I don't think it is a finished product, hence only a landing page and the fact
it's "early access".

------
r-w
For more info on the company, see here: [https://www.bizapedia.com/ny/clover-
software-inc.html](https://www.bizapedia.com/ny/clover-software-inc.html)

------
dvcrn
Is this going to be web-based (electron)?

I'd love for a really good notes app, but everything these days is in electron
and I can't deal with the powerhog.

I'm now using Outlinely and Agenda mainly because of this

~~~
esrh
> coming soon to web desktop and mobile

I'd bet so.

------
tomcat27
another notes app people love in the beginning but eventually abandon

------
gherkinnn
I use markdown in Writer and physical notebooks myself.

Both lack the ability to easily add pictures.

Bad iPad integration will be a killer for me though.

Worth a look, I suppose.

~~~
sebiol
My best Markdown experience so far on iPad is with Working Copy. It is
primarily a Git client.

The preview mode handles pictures well, but for editing you are stuck with a
basic code editor. Using the preview mode I can even navigate to other notes
in the same repository via links in the notes.

Might not work for your use case. If it sounds interesting, give it a try.

------
dhruvmittal
Looks like a notion clone but only for ios?

~~~
dangoor
At the bottom of the page, it says that it's coming for the web

------
cuatro
might need a new name

[https://www.firstdata.com/en_us/products/small-
business/clov...](https://www.firstdata.com/en_us/products/small-
business/clover-pos-solutions.html?placement=Solutions_Nav)

------
tobyhinloopen
Ah crap I was hoping for some kind of phone-laptop hybrid

------
sfuller808
Looks well thought out. Look forward to trying it out.

~~~
limomium
"Well thought out"? There are TWO features listed, some kind of non-straight
line writing thing, and the ability to change color. No mention of literally
anything else - like, if your notes are stored in accessible format offline or
if they are lost when the business goes belly up.

Never, ever take notes into a proprietary cloud silo!

~~~
jermeh
I'm not sure how you concluded that there are only two features listed. Going
back through the page I see:

* calendar-based navigation (Agenda) * gantt/timeline display * image collages * non-linear organization * command line * dedicated tasks tab * global search * customizable colors, fonts, icons

I'm not saying that Clover is incredible or that your "proprietary cloud silo"
paradigm is incorrect, but saying the app mentions literally nothing else is a
bit of a stretch.

~~~
limomium
I went looking for these things you claim are there, and you're right! They
are hidden in the screenshots without nary a mention!

This is what the website SAYS:

"What if we had a tool that could work in straight lines or… well… not
straight lines? [...] We built a new style of text editor from the ground up
to better support creative thinking. Clover lets you explode traditional
documents and work in a more free-form manner for better brainstorming, mind-
mapping, and exploration."

Notice the difference between what YOU said, and what the WEBSITE says? You
produced a useful list of features; the website blabbers in incomprehensible
marketing-speak.

