
Color or Fruit? The Unlikely Etymology of “Orange” - skadamou
https://lithub.com/color-or-fruit-on-the-unlikely-etymology-of-orange/
======
wyldfire
Other interesting rebracketing/juncture loss:

an napron => an apron

a nauger => an auger

a nadder => an adder

And there's probably a bunch more for future centuries [1].

[1] [https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/](https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/)

~~~
XaspR8d
One of my favorite cases of reanalysis gone amok is:

[(xocalia + a'tl) => chocola-tl => chocolate => choco-] + [(al-kuhl =>
alcohol) + (-ique => -ic) => -holic] => chocoholic

which, having contributions from Nahuatl, Arabic, and Latin results in a word
with morphemes originating in 3 distinct language _families_.

On the topic of article rebracketing, I also love "an eke-name" (an extra
name) becoming "a nickname".

~~~
bonzini
In Italian we have the Latin word "luscinia" (nightingale) that became
"usignolo". -olo is just a suffix that means small, the interesting part is
that at some point people started confusing the initial L for the article _l
'_.

------
senthil_rajasek
"possibly derived from an even older Dravidian (another ancient language
spoken in what is now southern India) root, naru, meaning fragrant. "

The Dravidian language referred here is Tamil. The fruit in the citrus family
is called Narthangai. The unripe fruit makes a sour delicious pickle.

It's such a joy to hear a Tamil word used everyday around the globe.

~~~
lgessler
> The Dravidian language referred here is Tamil.

The "even older Dravidian [language]" referred to in the article is not
exactly Tamil. The oldest written evidence we have for Old Tamil[1] dates to
the 3rd century BC[2]. But we're told that this word is in Sanskrit's
vocabulary, which was already developed well before then. (Some people date
the Vedas to the 15th century BC.)

That means it probably didn't come from Tamil, and instead came from some
other, older Dravidian language. That might be Proto-Dravidian, the common
ancestor of all Dravidian languages (Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada, Telugu, etc.),
or some other ancient Dravidian language that we don't have a record of.

(That seems likely, because that's generally how other Dravidian words in
Sanskrit are thought to have gotten there: Skt. फल (phala) 'fruit' is thought
to have been borrowed from Proto-Dravidian *palam, which has descended into
Tamil பழம் (paḻam), Malayalam പഴം (paḻaṃ), etc.)

Some English words actually are directly from Tamil, though. Curry[3] and
mango[4] are both directly from Tamil.

[1]: Old Tamil is actually quite different from Modern Tamil, but let's not
get into that

[2]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tamil_language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tamil_language)

[3]:
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/curry#Etymology_1](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/curry#Etymology_1)

[4]:
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mango#Etymology](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mango#Etymology)

~~~
dzhshnacct
only westerners date vedas to 15 century BC to prop up the fantasy of
europeans being aryans and support the aryan invasion theory

indians date it quite securely via astronomical observations in the texts of
dhruva the pole star to 3000 BC or 5kya

dhruva was thuban or alpha draconis of draco or the indian constellation
sisumara whale dolphin

there were no pole stars from about 2300 BC to 1500 AD but the knowledge of
the previous one was preserved in india

the rig veda and some other vedas even predate the dhruva observation but have
not been securely dated

~~~
iamshs
Are you using that absolutely non-credible David Frawley’s non peer reviewed
assertions regarding the astronomical dating of Vedas?

Please post a credible source for whole of your post.

~~~
dzhshnacct
R N Iyengar

[http://www.academia.edu/7193503/Dhruva-the-Ancient-Vedic-
Hin...](http://www.academia.edu/7193503/Dhruva-the-Ancient-Vedic-Hindu-Pole-
Star)

[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/RN_Iyengar](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/RN_Iyengar)

personally dont care about peer review status since we know the reasons
westerners reject this information has nothing to do with science but self
interest

but you might be interested to know it was first proposed by a european named
jacobi before europeans got the desire to be aryan leading to the world war
and destruction

video lecture

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R2lXuUMdoo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R2lXuUMdoo)

another person same conclusion

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfW4iLBgxg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfW4iLBgxg8)

~~~
iamshs
I will wait for an article published in a journal which at least has an Impact
Factor. Cannot even find impact factor for the journal you linked to. And your
central theme is invalidating western views while proving Indian supremacy, I
will not lend any credence to your views and assertions.

~~~
dzhshnacct
impact factor science is why the west will decline and fall

and actual science will head back east to india and maybe china if they can
get their act together

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drfuchs
They left out the best part: The use of the word "redhead," for people with
hair that is decidedly orange rather than red, predates the emergence of the
color name "orange." Otherwise, they would presumably have been called
"orangeheads."

~~~
yellowapple
Another factor there might be that "redhead" rolls off the tongue quite a bit
better.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
I'm sure you can find some sort of rhyme that'll work just as well.

~~~
jessaustin
For "orange"? Could you suggest a rhyme?

~~~
cgearhart
It's not as absurd as it may seem. Eminem discussed the topic at one point,
although I don't think any of them would fit the bill as a replacement for
"redhead":
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPcR5RVXHMg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPcR5RVXHMg)

~~~
stochastic_monk
The trick is that assonance is sufficient for rap in contrast to a strictly
true rhyme.

~~~
rory096
From the video description:
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sporange](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sporange)

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edgarvaldes
I find it great that "naranja" (the spanish name) is so close, almost
identical, to the sanskrit "naranga"

------
kalleboo
Interesting that English was lacking this word for so long. Swedish has the
word "brandgul" ("fire-yellow") which predates the English word orange by a
couple of decades and is still in use. Which I guess in Swedish just makes it
a variant of yellow instead of it's "own" color.

The word "orange" is also used for the color, but not for the fruit (which is
"apelsin")

------
ap3
Interesting that yellow red was used to describe the color of a fox

Is that why gold fish are called gold fish - and not orange fish?

~~~
shawabawa3
Probably because they're more reflective, like gold

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OJFord
Really interesting, but I thought this was a bit weak:

> Alexander the Great dressed in robes, some “of crimson, some of purple, some
> of murrey, and some of orange colour velvet.” The translator is confident
> that “murrey” will be identifiable—it is a reddish purple, the color of
> mulberries—but he needs to add the noun “colour” after “orange” for its
> meaning to be clear.

I would read that as a list of things, each of which is a colour of velvet.

------
jacobwilliamroy
In arabic the both the noun and adjectives for "orange" roughly transliterates
to "bortuqal":

برتقالي

What's the word for "Portugal" in arabic? "bortughal" (that is also not a good
transliteration)

برتغال

Arabic is my favorite.

~~~
esfandia
In Persian, "orange" as a fruit is also "portaghal". But the color is
"narenji". And then there's another citrus fruit quite close to the orange
called a "narenj", that you can't usually find in the West.

Interestingly, nobody eats the "narenj" directly. They usually squeeze its
juice on a fish dish. It gives it a very nice flavour.

~~~
schoen
Wikipedia identifies that fruit as

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_orange](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_orange)

I don't know if I've ever had it or not!

Edit: corresponding Farsi Wikipedia link:
[https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%86%D8%AC](https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%86%D8%AC)

~~~
fanf2
Bitter oranges make the best marmalade

------
mynegation
I think this color survey from xkcd is very interesting
[https://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-
results/](https://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/)

------
nwatson
FTA: "His orange exists only to brighten up tawny, a dark brown."

Almost like orange-is-to-brown as pink-is-to-red. This is more apparent when
looking at [http://colorizer.org/](http://colorizer.org/) and choosing HSV
colorspace with H==34, S==80, and varying V==[20,90].

EDIT: reverse pink/red.

------
dredmorbius
"Orange pekoe" turns out to have a fairly delightfully obscure etymology as
well.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_leaf_grading#Orange_pekoe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_leaf_grading#Orange_pekoe)

------
0x0
Interestingly, in Dutch, the word is "Appelsien" according to Wikipedia, which
seems quite unrelated to any word like "Orange" \- this in a country where the
royal family is called "House of Orange"?

~~~
schoen
This is from a tendency in Germanic languages (and maybe others) to call the
orange a "Chinese apple".

~~~
feulix
The word "sinaasappel" is much more common, which sounds a lot more like the
Chinese apple you're referring to than "appelsien". The latter is used in a
brand name for fruit juice (used to be exclusively orange juice). Besides that
it's practically not used in modern Dutch.

~~~
irishsultan
Both sinaasappel and appelsien are derived from chinese apple (from dutch
wikipedia: De sinaasappel komt oorspronkelijk uit China (in de oude vorm:
Sina), waar ook de naam naar verwijst. In het vroegnieuwnederlands komt "appel
sina" voor, in het nieuwnederlands "appelsien").

(Also in flemish appelsien is used far more than sinaasappel).

------
sverige
Interesting that the name of the House of Orange had nothing to do with the
fruit or the color.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A3cHzFQsqI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A3cHzFQsqI)

------
pakl
Doesn’t it seem plausible that “orange” rather comes from Latin aurantium
based on the root aurum for gold? (Gold can appear orange-colored.)

~~~
rockinghigh
Yes, the transition from narange to orange may come from the French “or”
(gold). More here:
[https://www.etymonline.com/word/orange](https://www.etymonline.com/word/orange)

------
firic
> Often they referred to oranges as “golden apples.”

That is how the fruit "orange" is called in modern Hebrew

------
lostlogin
“... a successful cosmetics company today does sell a lipstick color it
creepily calls Underage Red.”

Wow. And the company defends it as a “feminine rebellion”. I couldn’t make it
though the post but the link is below.

[https://m.facebook.com/katvond/posts/10155445610990454:0](https://m.facebook.com/katvond/posts/10155445610990454:0)

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eboyjr
Orange you glad that etymological histories are studied so in depth?

~~~
iovrthoughtthis
Thank you.

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machiavelli1024
It’s pretty simple in Hungarian. The orange fruit is called “narancs”, while
the color is “naracssárga” (“narancs” + “sárga”, where “sárga” means yellow).

