
The NSA Continues to Violate Americans' Internet Privacy Rights - grammers
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-continues-violate-americans-internet-privacy
======
geggam
Interesting to me that the downvoted comments on this story are the ones
discussing how the NSA is violating its charter and the constitution.

Used to be cryptotechs in the navy listening to foreign countries had to
destroy media if they accidentally recored a US citizen

Also used to be the majority of nerds were really against this sort of
invasive illegal intrusions

Now the NSA intentionally spies on citizens and the nerds are supporting them.

How far the NSA and the nerd herd have fallen... its really disappointing

~~~
rosser
I wouldn't, personally, characterize those comments as "discussing" how the
NSA is doing those things, so much as their authors throwing up their hands,
and being all, "WELP!" about that behavior. "Nothing can be done! They're
EEEEEVIL! If you think otherwise, then you're dumb too."

What kind of discussion is a comment like that likely to engender? Generally
not very substantive, in my experience, and I've been (IMO rightly) asked by
the moderators not to engage in that style of shallow discourse, despite one
of my comments to that effect being among my highest-voted _ever_.

Popularity and/or accuracy don't entail depth, and there's a pretty clear bias
on HN towards encouraging the latter.

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stareatgoats
From the comments under the article:

> "Also, the next time an NSA spokesman tries to sugarcoat this issue, let's
> get someone, anyone, to ask why the GCHQ (in the U.K.) is allowed to spy on
> Americans and then simply pass that along to U.S. intelligence. U.S. spooks
> think they are being clever by doing it this way."

What evidence is there that this is going on? and on what scale? If it is
standard operation then the whole 'not spying on our own citizens' would seem
to be a hollow truth in all countries that partake in such intelligence
exchange.

I.e. the spying is simply done by a partner country, otherwise no difference.

~~~
Azrathud
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement)

The code name for the data collection/sharing project is "Tempora" and was
unveiled in the Snowden leaks:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora)

[https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-
secre...](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-
communications-nsa)

------
nimbius
In other news, Americans continue to fight this.

[https://prism-break.org](https://prism-break.org)

~~~
crazynick4
They must have been doing a great job because 'this site can’t be reached'.

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oneplane
Well, it's very annoying that they are violating non-american internet privacy
rights as well. Just because one club of people said it's okay doesn't mean we
have to agree to it.

~~~
dgzl
Rights in the US are granted not by saying "you have rights" but by saying
"the government can't do xyz". The Constitution only applies to US citizens.

~~~
late2part
_We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America._ \- the constitution.

However, the Declaration of Independence says:

 _We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure
these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers
from the consent of the governed,_

I've personally interpreted this as meaning that we USA folks believe these
rights should apply to everyone, but we're only taking responsibility for our
own folks, in general. We'd like to help others, and can, but we don't
guarantee it.

Not sure that's sound, but that's my take.

~~~
oneplane
I think having a set of rules or ideas to apply to everyone, but foremost
start with taking responsibility for those who live under the governance of
those rules makes a whole lot more sense than "screw everyone who is not us".

~~~
boomboomsubban
As nice as that sounds, the Constitution allowing slavery suggests "screw
everyone who is not us" is more accurate.

~~~
dgzl
From my University US history class, this is how my professor described how
slavery was allowed by the Constitution: the founding fathers were generally
against slavery (at least some of them), but they knew that Americans would
never agree to the terms of the Constitution if it included abolishing
slavery. From what I understand, the founding fathers decided to just let the
system work itself out.

~~~
late2part
Sounds like why people don’t vote for third party candidates like Green and
Libertarian.

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some_account
I made it to the second paragraph. Anyone who believes the NSA can be
controlled must also believe in the things they were told in school how the
world works. That is, 100% "how it could work in theory". In reality, the
world is controlled by power hungry psychopaths and they are concentrated in
large amounts at the top of these organizations.

~~~
dangero
You're probably right, but do you not agree that declaring PRISM illegal would
be a helpful step?

~~~
narag
I believe he's trying to say that it's just impossible. In movies heroes
uncover government conspiracies and culprits get handcuffed. In real world
nothing happened. Snowden is now a cultural reference for comedy:

[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6663582/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6663582/)

~~~
BLKNSLVR
In the real world, whistleblowers and their lawyers get prosecuted for
revealing illegal activities the government was conducting:

[http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-28/australian-spys-
lawyer...](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-28/australian-spys-lawyer-
threatened-with-jail-over-book/10155892)

------
danjoc
>President Trump, who as a candidate called for expanded spying on Americans.

I may not agree with Trump on it, but least he was honest about his support
for it.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SRCOouw5I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SRCOouw5I)

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megamindbrian2
Good. Privacy isn't a right.

~~~
Totoradio
The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights disagrees:

> Article 12.

> No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy,
> family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and
> reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such
> interference or attacks.

~~~
megamindbrian2
The UN also states access to the internet is a human right but Zuckerberg only
gives Africa free internet, why do I still have to pay for it?

~~~
boomboomsubban
You want to visit sites that aren't Facebook, and you already gave them your
data for free.

