
Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety - is74
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1208_2012_tesla_model_s_test_and_range_verification/viewall.html
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kennethcwilbur
I've been driving a tesla roadster for about a year. It's my daily commuter.

I plug the car into a regular 110V outlet. I typically get 30-50 miles of
charge overnight, depending on what time I get home and when I leave. My
commute is only 10 miles each way so it's 100% full most mornings when I get
in.

I've verified the car can do 240 miles between cities but you have to set the
cruise to 60 mph or below. I keep a gas car for long road trips and camping,
etc., but I don't use it much.

The Tesla is very cool. Strangers stop me to talk about it multiple times per
week. Customer service has been off the charts.

High recommend. Go buy one.

~~~
kennethcwilbur
I forgot to mention what is maybe the best part. Surprised the article doesn't
talk about this.

When you drive an EV, acceleration is instant. Like, at the same time your
foot goes down, your shoulders get thrown back.

Gas cars often take 0.5-2 seconds to get response from the engine, depending
on the car & current conditions at the time you accelerate.

You get used to the acceleration in the Tesla after a while. But one year in,
I'm still loving the instant response. That's what I really miss when I'm
driving the gas car. It's just awesome.

~~~
ghostfish
I think you're attributing to throttle lag something that is primarily
attributable to torque (which isn't to say there isn't throttle response lag,
just it's a minor component imo). Diesels are similar to EVs in the sense that
you don't need to let the engine rev up or downshift to get that "throw you
back" feel quickly. Depends on the car, obviously.

~~~
hatcravat
Depending on the engine computer (or lack thereof), a couple seconds of
throttle lag isn't unreasonable. One of the things my flight instructor made a
point to show me while learning to fly small planes (with carbureted engines,
so the effect was magnified compared to what you'd see on a modern fuel-
injected auto) was throttle lag on a balked landing (go-around). Most aircraft
engines directly drive the propeller, so there are no transmission effects to
confusing things. Shoving the throttle from idle to wide-open can actually
cause a dip in RPM as the higher manifold pressure condenses formerly
vaporized fuel and the fuel system tries to catch up.

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timmyd
Elon Musk is without doubt one the best entrepreneurs around - far less
celebrated than many of the other 'uber' entrepreneurs around but with such
ridiculously awesome companies.

268 Miles (or slightly less according to the article) is just amazing - less
C02, less environmental impact wrapped in a high performance car which - will
no doubt - have some detractors as a first iteration against well establish
models (comparing it to BMW and Mercedes who have been around for almost 90+
years is a big ask!)

None the less - it's ridiculously exciting at what's been achieved and what
will be achieved in the next few years in this space. I give it no more than
3-4 years until these cars will be doing 400-500 miles or more.

~~~
rdl
Who (in the past 20-30 years) is celebrated more than Elon Musk is today?
Other than Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. Maybe tied with Jeff Bezos?

I don't think "many".

~~~
drzaiusapelord
If I asked my wife today, I'm certain she's knows Jobs and Gates, maybe Bezos
(and that's a big maybe) but no way would she know who Musk is. Lets not
mistake our echo chamber for the world.

~~~
hpvic03
I'm sure Elon will get his due. It's just a matter of time before the rest of
the world finds out about his accomplishments.

E.g., I don't think many of us here on HN were surprised to see Drew Houston
on the cover of Forbes.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
You'd be surprised. I've been hanging around here for a few years and I have
no idea who he is. Although a little voice in the back of my mind says he
might be the Dropbox guy.

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snowwrestler
That article seemed filled with anxiety to me.

I don't think anything will eliminate range anxiety other than time. As more
people get electric cars and start to build their lives around them, their
acquaintances will start to see it as more normal.

It's almost like the very early days of the automobile, when each driver had
to carry a ton of extra gas, since fill stations were few and far between.
Like any bootstrap, it took a long time to create the virtuous cycle that
mutually reinforces the value of the customers and the infrastructure.
Electric cars will need to go through the same thing.

The other big issue is the time to refill. 30 minute quick charge is
incredibly fast for electricity, but still incredibly slow compared to filling
a gas car.

~~~
Karunamon
>The other big issue is the time to refill

I think that will end up requiring both a social tweak and an infrastructure
one. Once people are comfortable with the concept of an electric car, it will
be only natural to start requesting (and the necessary civil authorities
adding) charging ports in standard parking areas.

Imagine in NYC, a parking meter that also has a charging plug for the car.
Raise the meter's rate just a bit and you can cover both the electricity and
install costs.

~~~
froo
I'd love to see something along the lines of Intel's Wireless Resonant Energy
Link[1] used in conjunction with EV's so that the idea of "plugging them in"
can be all but eliminated.

If you didn't even have to plug it in, just drive it to work, park it, drive
it home, park it and it could charge automagically in both parking spots - its
much more convenient than petroleum and would potentially be a big plus FOR
getting an EV.

1 - [http://software.intel.com/en-
us/videos/channel/general/wirel...](http://software.intel.com/en-
us/videos/channel/general/wireless-resonant-energy-link-wrel-
demo/1127589936001)

~~~
schiffern
>its much more convenient than petroleum and would potentially be a big plus
FOR getting an EV.

Plugging in at home is _already_ more convenient than petroleum.

It seems like using 40% more energy to charge your car is an inefficient way
to avoid plugging in. Project Better Place is already working on robotic plugs
that plug themselves in.

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monkeyfacebag
Off topic, but that star plot was impossible to read. Straight up parallel
coordinates would have been an improvement (maybe), but I can't help feeling
like, with only 25 data points, a summary table would have been _even better_.
I love visualizations as much as the next guy, but only when they are aids to
understanding, not, you know, detriments to it.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
I disagree. While it was impossible to understand any specifics, that wasn't
what they were trying to show. Instead, they were trying to show how Tesla
dominates over other EVs (that are all about the same). And it did a great job
of showing that, much better than a table would have.

~~~
monkeyfacebag
That's fair. I was conflating two things in my initial post: legibility and
suitability. Legibility was atrocious; I did not get the same insight from the
vis that you did because I couldn't read it. Suitability is, of course,
debatable. I find star plots have a fair bit of noise (e.g., line slope) that
detracts from the message of the vis. Parallel coordinates are slightly better
in this regard, but still require a "discerning eye." However, looking at it
again, I agree that a table would be insufficient.

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clarky07
While this is impressive, it still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the
problem. It can only be used for commuting and local trips. I regularly travel
450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. If you can improve the
infrastructure with the charging stations it helps, but still doesn't work. I
might be willing to stop for 30 minutes once, but not twice. I can eat a meal
while it charges the first time, but as that charge still wouldn't be enough,
i guess i just have to twiddle my thumbs for the second 30 minute stop. Adding
an hour to my 6.5 hour drive is not something I'd enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, this is awesome for filling the commute hole, but many
many people use their cars for longer trips as well. Until you can make it
viable for both I'm not spending many tens of thousands of dollars on it.

~~~
acgourley
You say, "the problem" when you should say "my problem."

Personally I just drive around the SF bay area. Maybe 120 miles on my longest
driving day. For the one-two times a year I go farther, I suppose I need to
rent a car, take transit. or have someone else drive. That seems like a
reasonable price to pay to have the coolest car on the planet for a few years.

~~~
clarky07
If you have a spare 100k "to be cool" then go for it. If I had that much money
to throw around I'd get one as well. It's an awesome car.

That doesn't however just make it "my problem." There aren't very many people
buying any of these cars, so I assume it's a problem for more than just me.

The point I'm trying to make, is that if I'm spending 50-100k on a car, I want
it to solve "the driving problem." i.e. if I need to drive somewhere, I'd like
to be able to do it. Whether I do it often or not is irrelevant. In my case I
actually do do it quite frequently, but I suspect that many people don't buy
these not because they actually do this once every month or two like I do, but
because they want to be able to if they want or need to.

Maybe it's vacation, maybe it's seeing family, maybe it's an emergency. You
need to go somewhere and you want to jump in the car and go there. With this
you can't, and instead have to go spend several hundred extra dollars and a
have a huge hassle of renting a car. No thank you.

~~~
acgourley
"There aren't very many people buying any of these cars" - I can't tell if you
mean teslas, or electric cars in general.

If you mean Teslas - an article in june said there are 10k reserved, which
means the waiting list is a year long.

If you mean electric cars in general - I would urge you not to compare the
leaf or volt to a tesla model S. The former was sold to cost conscious people
who ultimately and correctly saw false economy, limitations and questionable
design. The tesla can be sold to anyone who would buy a new BMW/Audi/Mercedes
and wants to look earth conscious, tech savy, or hip.

~~~
CapOpp
There are over 13,000 reservations as of a week ago, and the pace of
reservations is accelerating dramatically.

Chevy Volt is doing halfway decent selling 1,800 units per month even if it
isn't as good as original projections.

Reservations in August for Model S are already coming close to that pace and
the upward trend is accelerating, with each retail store now ramping up to
multiple reservations per day.

Tesla is already planning to increase production to a monthly rate that
translates into 30,000 units per year, but based on current trends it looks
increasingly likely that next year's production might be sold out as early as
January or February.

As to who will want the car, it's anyone who wants a new BMW/Audi/Mercedes and
who wants to look earth conscious, tech savy, or hip while also saving a ton
of money compared to the competition.

Model S Performance (the regular production model as opposed to the limited
edition Signature Founders edition used in the test) costs less than BMW M5
even before the huge yearly savings on gas and maintenance (the performance is
identical to the tested car, but it has different paint and interior options
and is not a limited edition).

Model S 85 costs the same as the 550i GT (its most similar competitor) and
saves thousands per year. It also competes with and compares favorably to
various 7 series offerings while costing the same or less, and always saving a
ton of operating expenses.

Those two cars are the bread and butter of the Model S lineup and are hyper
competitive with their conventional counterparts. There are a million plus
cars sold in this segment globally and Model S has a big competitive
advantage.

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aboodman
Edit: Whoops, meant Chevy Volt.

Why isn't the Leaf doing better? when I heard about it I was super excited,
and if I had to replace my Prius, it would be my first choice.

I think they hit the tradeoffs just right: for almost all daily driving,
you'll never use gasoline. But if you have to do a long trip, you don't have
to care about range.

What am I missing?

~~~
maxerickson
The Leaf is a pure electric.

Maybe you crossed it up with the Chevy Volt?

~~~
aboodman
Yup, thanks for the fix.

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josephlord
Hmmm....

Yes the range is better than other electric cars but half the article is about
range anxiety. Maybe not the best link title.

~~~
freehunter
It's about range anxiety, and then ends with the relief that they didn't
really need to worry too much. 5 hours of driving from an electric car getting
100 mpg-e and matching a BMW M5 stat-for-stat. That impressed them, and it
impresses me.

~~~
clarky07
except for the part where they didn't actually make it to their destination.
And since most people aren't going to have the charging station 4 miles from
their eventual destination, everyone else would have been screwed. Not too
mention they now have to wait 30 minutes to get their last 5 miles.

still an impressive car :-)

~~~
eavc
They intentionally chose a route at the maximum possible millage. Most people
would be more conservative.

~~~
clarky07
no, most people would go to the place they are going, no matter if it is 220
miles or 260 miles. If it's 220 they'd be fine, if it's 260 they'd be screwed.

~~~
eavc
Do people generally attempt to do something they know they will not be able to
do?

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iblaine
$105k for the model tested in this article? Price tag anxiety is still an
issue.

~~~
CapOpp
Thats a Founders Signature edition. It's a double whammy for limited
editionness and can't be purchased by the general public. Even the straight
Sig's are sold out (there were only 1200 allocated to North America).

The regular production model that this is based on is the Model S Performance.
It's identical, except it has different color and interior options (because
its not limited edition). That runs ~$85k after the Federal Rebate, which
makes it cheaper than the BMW M5 (a similar competitor in terms of
performance, if not practicality).

The standard MS85 (the big battery) clocks in at ~$69,900 and is a bit slower
than the MSP, but still as fast as a 550i GT, which is basically the same
price and a similar car in terms of features.

There are cheaper options, but most buyers will be paying $60k and up for the
MS60 (few seem to be interested in the MS40) so I can see how that can
generate some sticker shock.

But hundreds of thousands of cars in this price range get sold in the U.S.
every year and the Model S is a bargain in that segment, both in terms of its
MSRP and especially in terms of its 5 year total cost of ownership.

This is not the Leaf that costs twice as much as its competitors. Model S
easily will save its owners $10k+ over 5 years (and likely much more). The
Model S is much closer to a $40,000 car in terms of how much money you
actually have to have available to pay the monthly payment, insurance, taxes,
gas and maintenance.

------
protomyth
Is there a definitive word on battery performance in sub-zero F weather?

~~~
CapOpp
Multiple Roadsters have been running fine for years above the Arctic Circle.
There are actually less issues than with gas powered cars. The second largest
market for Model S, behind the U.S. is Norway.

~~~
protomyth
I understand people use them in cold weather, but I want to know what the
actual range turns into. I have read a 20 - 30% reduction in the forums and
the regenerative braking is turned off until the batteries heat up.

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api
Thank you Elon for giving us back the future. Tnx.

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jfb
Don't care still want.

~~~
R_Edward
It would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that
price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week. Especially if
the seats are as uncomfortable as he suggests.

Still... if I had that kind of auto budget, I'd definitely buy one.

It would be nice if the all-electric vehicles provided a port in which you
could plug an emergency battery that would take you, say, 20 miles or so, so
you could get to a recharging station if you overdrive your range. Yes, you
have a range gauge, so you never should get into that predicament, but we've
had gas gauges for decades, yet we still see people trudging toward their
stopped vehicles with newly-purchased gas can in hand.

~~~
stcredzero
_we've had gas gauges for decades, yet we still see people trudging toward
their stopped vehicles with newly-purchased gas can in hand._

In Germany, they write you a ticket for that.

