
Putting meditation to the test (2011) - innovate
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927940-200-mind-gym-putting-meditation-to-the-test/
======
zuck9
Meditation is not pseudoscience, this topic has been brought up multiple times
in HN:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?q=meditation](https://hn.algolia.com/?q=meditation)
[https://hn.algolia.com/?q=mindfulness](https://hn.algolia.com/?q=mindfulness)

If you read the HN threads you will find countless people talking about how
meditation has helped them from their personal experiences.

Meditation has a lot of benefits and the results have been scientifically
validated by different groups of researchers:
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0005789407...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000578940700072X)
[http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00845519](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00845519)
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/)
[http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-
to...](http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better-
brain/)

A recent research even showed that meditation is more powerful than a placebo:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10789738](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10789738)

If you are still skeptical, watch this video by Dan Harris, a skeptical news
reporter turned meditation evangelist, it convinced me to meditate everyday
and I think it'll convince you too:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAcTIrA2Qhk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAcTIrA2Qhk)

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nichochar
Although I'm a fan of meditation, and actually do think it increases focus, I
think the experiment they conducted is not very scientific:

>Headed by Katherine MacLean at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in
Baltimore, the study measured the volunteers’ attention skills by showing them
a succession of vertical lines flashed up on a computer screen. They then had
to indicate, by clicking a mouse, whenever there was a line shorter than the
rest. As the retreat progressed, MacLean and her colleagues noted that the
volunteers became progressively more accurate and found it increasingly easy
to stay focused on the task for long periods.

I feel like I could also get better at it just by practicing... At least I
think they should have benchmarked the experiment by comparing to people not
meditating 5 hours a day, this is just inductive reasoning to me.

This being said, I love meditating and have found it to bring lots of good
benefits to me. I find that focus can be trained in better ways, but
meditation is great at making me enjoy the present moment, and take my time
more.

~~~
maroonblazer
>I find that focus can be trained in better ways

Such as?

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Laaw
Have these studies been reproduced elsewhere, or is it a singular group of
researchers extolling the virtues of meditation?

~~~
nunodonato
as a 10+ yr practitioner, studies are useless. practice it and test it by
yourself, no harm done and a lot to gain ;)

~~~
qrendel
It's not really "no harm done" \- the opportunity cost of wasting time that
could be spent on other activities is a deterrent, for me at least.

~~~
goodJobWalrus
> It's not really "no harm done" \- the opportunity cost of wasting time that
> could be spent on other activities is a deterrent, for me at least.

But this is really true for any activity. You don't know you'll like it until
you try it. If you tried it and didn't like you wasted your time.

The only problem I see is if you continue to do meditation even if you don't
enjoy it because you believe in benefits. But like with working out, I doubt
that really happens. If people can't find enjoyment in it, they drop it sooner
or later.

~~~
icebraining
The problem with meditation, and similar "experiences that can't be
described", is that you never know if you tried it long enough or well enough
to actually enjoy it, or if it simply doesn't work for you.

Working out, at least if done correctly - which can be assessed by others -
will provide some benefits even if you never get to enjoy it.

And the loss is not just wasted time - it's the feelings of frustration and
low self-esteem that come from the perception that you're failing without
having idea how to improve.

~~~
goodJobWalrus
> The problem with meditation, and similar "experiences that can't be
> described", is that you never know if you tried it long enough or well
> enough to actually enjoy it

But this is also true for most activities (playing a violin, playing tennis,
or programming). Still, we decide whether any of it is for us by trying it.
People who get into it, stay in it for long enough to really learn it and get
benefits of it, people who don't get into it, and don't enjoy it on some level
drop it quickly. I'm not saying that this is theoretically the best way to
explore new activities, it's more of an observation that this is how people
generally do it and that meditation is no different. You try it, and it either
does something for you (enough to keep doing it), or it doesn't and you drop
it.

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papapra
I'm curious if these scientists try to make the connection between the flow
and the focused attention meditation. It seems to me that by trying to
meditate, you are actually trying to get to the state of flow.

~~~
Tharkun
I don't think so. Flow makes you blind to everything that is arround you. It's
pretty much hyper-focused tunnel vision. "Mindfulness" meditation, on the
other hand, gives you a very wide awareness. Of yourself and of your
environment. Not just on the task at hand. At least that's how I see it.

~~~
j45
There's many types of focus and meditation. Meditation is like swimming.
People can study, discuss, and pontificate about swimming, it's all academic
until we're in the water sloshing around ourselves.

In the case of mindfulness that is triggering some dismissiveness on your
part, there is also abstract, settled, or awareness typed meditation. The
latter, focusing on abstract, awareness of awareness (being a witness to your
thoughts) without directing them can be just as useful to unlock creativity in
day to day life.

Some meditative experiences are very similar to flow and allows the ability to
slip into flow that much easier. Some folks can slip into meditation just
sitting at their desk by closing their eyes and come out a few minutes later
settled and focus in hand for something.

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imoff
Can meditation be used to cure premature ejaculation?

~~~
zafka
assuming you are serious, see tantric meditation

~~~
imoff
I'm serious, thanks.

