
A Chinese social credit song - Anon84
https://www.whatsonweibo.com/be-as-good-as-your-word-the-chinese-social-credit-song-is-here/
======
tomxor
@ 1:24 - You need good social credit to buy food!? holly fuck they are taking
it up a notch.

... i'm half joking though, I have been to China many times, there is no way
this is going to be effective for all of the cheap restaurants and street
food. One thing I've learned about China, is although we often interpret their
emerging laws and policies to be extreme (which they are) - what we don't
appreciate is the context - they are not enforced as widely, rigorously and
thoroughly as in the west. This is at least partly cultural and geographic,
and it is probably this same reason that contributes to some of the Chinese
government's overreach in the first place (to overcompensate). It does not
excuse the human rights issues, but explains them somewhat.

~~~
bitwize
What that means, invariably, is that they will be enforced less against the
politically connected and more on those without friends in high places.

~~~
mandelbrotwurst
It's a bit more complicated than that. Many of these enforcement mechanisms
are highly network dependent.

People who are themselves less networked (e.g. less online, spending more time
in rural areas or spaces with less cameras) are more likely to be overlooked
by these enforcement mechanisms.

To understand this a bit better, consider how much more likely someone who
owns a car is to receive traffic tickets from cameras than is than someone who
does not.

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ian0
Heres one for you. A benevolent and all knowing AGI runs a tamper proof social
credit system that penalises things that are "bad" in the eyes of a strict
majority and rewards things that are "good", reducing the rights of people
with poor scores to limit potential harm they can do and giving people with
good scores more leeway.

What are the ethical considerations here? Is it just a perfect democracy +
judicial system? Does it impact growth as a society? Im remembering the quote
"All progress depends on the unreasonable man". Would it be a very
conservative society that resulted?

PS should go without saying, but this is just thought exercise, obviously..

~~~
voldacar
This just sounds like a (fairly unexceptional) tyranny of the majority. Our
society may already be heading in this direction, albeit in a softer sense,
with the rise of filter bubbles and highly polarized outrage culture

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kelvin0
Makes me think of a Black Mirror episode:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_\(Black_Mirror\))

Really creepy stuff ...

~~~
uoaei
The only episode to cause me to physically cringe during the whole viewing.

~~~
scarejunba
Me too, because the idea is sound, and the people involved ended up
essentially 'in the right place'.

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utf985
Might be just me, but parts of this song sound awfully similar to "Welcome to
the Black Parade" by My Chemical Romance.

~~~
__sy__
Wouldn't be the first time...
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2010/04/19/national/world-...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2010/04/19/national/world-
expo-song-halted-by-plagiarism-row)

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yorwba
Presumably most people who're going to watch the music video are already aware
that fraud is illegal etc. and if they don't act as virtuous as the role
models presented to them, it's because they feel the alternative is worse.

So it would be interesting to find out whether the PR campaign actually
changes anyone's behavior.

~~~
human20190310
> So it would be interesting to find out whether the PR campaign actually
> changes anyone's behavior.

That's begging the question as to whether the behavior needs changing.

Is there a pervasive trust/integrity problem in China?

~~~
yorwba
I don't know about "pervasive", but there are definitely some people trying to
make a quick buck at the expense of others. I know someone involved with an
MLM scam selling "fuel saving cards" that are supposed to quantum-mechanically
reduce fuel consumption by sticking them to your gas tank.

~~~
tempguy9999
I'm ambivalent about this kind of thing. One one hand it takes advantage of
people's stupidity, on the other, if people let themselves be that dumb then
they deserve what they get.

I distinguish 'are that dumb' (children, some people with senility etc. who
need protecting) from those who 'let themselves be that dumb' such as mystic
belief in homoepathy, or that read up on the latest cancer cure in the Daily
Mail (a right-wing UK rag). Elective credulity deserves no protection or
respect IMO. But opposing views welcome.

~~~
gowld
Yes, children are not responsible for their actions until they turn 18, at
which point they are magically instilled with wisdom and accountability
regardless of upbringing.

Credulity is not "elective".

There's no way for the average person to distinguish between homeopathy and
pharmaceuticals without running an experiment on themselves. It's a matter of
what biases they were taught growing up.

~~~
tempguy9999
Well, here's a handy example
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034424](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034424)
which leads to
[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/sep/17/healing...](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/sep/17/healing-
crystals-wellness-mining-madagascar)

Some quotes:

\- The model Miranda Kerr has said that she filters all her skincare products
through rose quartz “to give the vibration of self-love”.

\- Believers say crystals conduct ambient energy – like miniature phone towers
picking up signals and channelling them on to the user – thus rebalancing
malign energies, healing the body and mind

\- According to Pew Research Center data, more than 60% of US adults hold at
least one “new age” belief, such as placing faith in astrology or the power of
psychics, and 42% think spiritual energy can be located in physical objects
such as crystals

\- Last year, Paltrow faced (and settled) a misleading advertising lawsuit for
claiming that Goop’s vaginal egg crystals had the power to balance hormones
and regulate menstrual cycles

What's this if it's not stupidity-by-choice?

Let's have an answer instead of downvotes because I'd really like to hear what
you think.

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binarymax
Criticizing the production quality of this video is just a cheap shot. Imagine
if DHS or ICE got together to produce a music video. It would be absolutely
terrible.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
A major defense contractor who shall remain nameless put together an internal
training music video called Let's Talk About FOD (foreign object damage) to
the tune of Let's Talk About Sex. It was sung by a C-level exec. There were
guys in clean room suits dancing (IIRC one of them even spun on his/her head).
It was filmed on site in actual production facilities. The production value
easily surpassed "peak-ISIS" and rivaled that of professional music videos.

Being a lumbering bureaucracy doesn't mean you can't make a good music video.
You just gotta have the skills to pull it off. Any government agency that
takes propaganda (aka marketing) seriously should have the requisite skills in
house.

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gapo
Definition of dystopia

~~~
diydsp
the body language is unnverving. the insincere tics in the faces of the young
women, the stilted swinging of the shoulders, the weak fist-squeezing of the
young men with the awkward eye-popping. The deer in headlights postures...

it all just reeks of coercion and young people trying to please but afraid and
uncomfortable. Perhaps it's just a bad video director. Maybe the video
director is trying to communicate their own discomfort. Maybe the producers
see it all and delight in how much power they have... This video is evidence
of their grip.

~~~
srbby
I think they are simply bad actors.

~~~
tomxor
You have no idea how true this is, try watching the TV over there!

------
narrator
I kind of wish our pop culture was this bad. People would go outside more.

One of the things that I find amusing about Chinese people I meet and talk
with who are traveling outside of China is that they are not obsessed with pop
music, celebrities or sports, or at least far less than we are in the west.

As an example, I met a fashionable young Chinese lady with an apparently large
income who was traveling the world. You know what she did for fun? She played
the piano, did tourist stuff and went out for dinner with friends.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
This really isn’t true. Chinese have songs, they have popular music groups,
many like K pop or K dramas, many like costume dramas or going for a night out
to sing karaoke. Soccer is really popular, basketball is too for some strange
reason. Heck, just say you are American in Beijing and taxi drivers will most
definitely ask you about the NBA (if you can speak Chinese).

There is a lot of selection bias in generalizing about a culture via its world
travelers :).

The state really sucks at propaganda though, so it shouldn’t be surprising
that efforts like this are filled with lots of cringe. It definitely shouldn’t
be considered pop culture.

~~~
learc83
>basketball

Basketball was introduced to China by missionaries in 1895, so it's been there
almost as long as it has in the US.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Perhaps, but its current popularity hinges around the NBA. I’m pretty sure the
NBA has more fans in China than in the USA.

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winrid
Interesting, related:
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/china-s...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/china-
social-credit-system-how-to-get-rewards-2019-1)

Also, how do you increase your social credit I wonder? Do some stuff to help
your community? How is it tracked?

I couldn't find anything like you get X points for Y.

------
jhare
I believe this is all my true nightmares, come to life, expressed in one
place.

~~~
umvi
And yet, gun crime is non existent, suicide is much lower than the US, etc.
China is actually by all measures a much better place to live than the US. The
freedoms in the US just lead to death and suffering and political divisions
and unhappiness. In China people are unified.

~~~
supertiger
public safety - China has a clear win. Thanks to the surveillance level and
strict gun/drug control, you can walk on the street of any part of any city
without having to worry about your safety. I cannot say the same most of the
major cities in the US.

However, air pollution, food safety, extremely high competition and fast-pace
together make China a quite unattractive place to live and work.

~~~
Reason077
Hmm, much of this can also be said about the UK. High levels of surveillance,
strict gun control, generally good public safety, but high air pollution in
urban areas.

Except for the drug control part: the police here seem to have pretty much
given up on that.

~~~
jquery
You haven't been to China if you think UK's air pollution and China's are
comparable. The smog is so bad at times in major cities you can't see the
street from your hotel window.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
They aren't comparable at the moment. But London used to have "London fogs"
that contained a large air pollution component. At least one was so bad that a
doctor hired a blind man to guide him on his house visits, since the doctor
couldn't see enough to tell where he was (even on foot on the sidewalk), but
the blind guy wasn't handicapped at all by the smog.

~~~
jquery
Oh I know, I'm just clearing up some possible misconceptions, I think some
people aren't aware just how bad pollution in China is right now. Even in
tertiary cities there's significant smog. If their authoritarian government
does one think I hope it makes fixing that a priority.

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durpleDrank
Devils advocate here, is it safe to say that capitalism is a type of credit
system that allows upward mobility except for it is based on greed and not
being "trust worthy"?

I dunno there is a part of me that wishes the propaganda was true. It would be
nice to live in a world where everyone is nice and respectful of each other.
No lying, no cheating, etc. I'm sure that it's not implemented well at all in
China, and resembles more of a Police State hellscape than anything but there
is a part of me wishes that bad landlord I had or that person who ripped me
off etc weren't able to get away with it so easily.

~~~
diydsp
sort of. but at least in capitalism, individuals are free to choose which
behaviors deserve dollars. obviously billionaires have outsized influence, but
many small voice still matter. in PRC, some govt committee decides which
behaviors get credit.

~~~
JohnFen
> individuals are free to choose which behaviors deserve dollars

That's more a function of a free market than capitalism.

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the_resistence
This is so awesome. I hope it takes hold some millenia.

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stOneskull
media turning the whole public robotic

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vernie
I hope they dock the girl to the right of center a few points for piss-poor
heart-hands.

