
Federal agents make domestic flight passengers show ID to disembark plane - WillyOnWheels
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/02/23/federal-agents-ask-domestic-flight-passengers-to-show-ids-in-search-for-undocumented-immigrant/
======
cbanek
This is incredibly disturbing. This reminds me of all the random border patrol
checkpoints set up in Arizona and California that were hundreds of miles from
the border, stopping all the highway traffic. Of course this is where all
those famous Checkpoint USA videos come in
([https://www.youtube.com/user/CheckpointUSA](https://www.youtube.com/user/CheckpointUSA)).

I can only imagine what would happen if they just started stopping everyone on
the freeway asking for ID...

And so it begins.

~~~
nostromo
The federal government has additional powers near a border to do certain
things, like set up checkpoints.

But, here's the ridiculous part, they define "near a border" as anywhere in
the US that is 100 miles from a border or the ocean.

So, virtually all of California is in the "constitution free zone" \-- as are
a full 2/3rds of the US population.

[https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-
zone](https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone)

~~~
SAI_Peregrinus
And ports of entry are defined as borders, so all the international airports
count too: [http://imgur.com/a/DqDeQ](http://imgur.com/a/DqDeQ)

It's my quick & dirty edit of their image.

~~~
5555624
Huntsville provides more coverage between Birmingham and Nashville.

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danjoc
For those of you unaware, it's illegal to be caught without your green card.
That much is not new.

[http://immigrationroad.com/blog/do-i-have-to-carry-my-
green-...](http://immigrationroad.com/blog/do-i-have-to-carry-my-green-card-
around/)

~~~
derefr
But it's not illegal for a _US citizen_ to be carrying no form of
identification, which makes "you have no papers" kind of a flimsy argument:
how do you know the person is not, in fact, a citizen? Especially on a
_domestic_ flight, where there was nothing forcing any of the US citizens on
the flight to bring travel documents like a passport with them.

~~~
masonic

      But it's not illegal for a US citizen to be carrying no form of identification
    

_On a commercial flight?_ Of course it is. This is different from accosting a
pedestrian on a street without probable cause.

[EDIT: Note what the regulation actually says:

"If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to _enter the screening
checkpoint_." (That does NOT, in itself, include _boarding a plane_.)
Continuing: "You may be subject to additional screening. You will _not be
allowed to fly if your identity cannot be confirmed_ , you chose to not
provide proper identification or you decline to cooperate with the identity
verification process."

So, had there been passengers for which a knowing exception had been made, the
investigators would have known that going in. So, it's wrong to say that "it's
illegal" to be on a commercial flight in that case, but for the purpose of
this specific search, any such granted variances would have had to be _on
record, and known_ to the investigators.

~~~
GavinMcG
That's just not true. I've gotten on planes without ID before, after losing my
driver's license. I got patted down extra thoroughly, but there's no issue of
legality.

~~~
outericky
This. It is very possible to fly without ID. Have done it several times due to
lost wallet/id. Takes longer. And there is more verification. But def
possible.

~~~
morgante
Indeed. And that's not an anachronism, I just did it 2 years ago when I forgot
my license. Just had to show them a credit card.

~~~
AckSyn
I did it last week when I accidentally shipped my wallet containing my drivers
license and passport home before flying home. It's nothing more serious than
waiting a little more before getting through the line.

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cperciva
This has happened to me twice on Canadian flights; the second time I asked one
of the police officers what was going on, and they said they were looking for
someone whom the flight manifest said was on board the plane. I suppose they
could have come onto the plane to pull someone off, but that would have
delayed everybody far more than checking ID on the way off.

I wouldn't want this to be a routine fishing expedition, but if there's
someone specific they're looking for and they have a reason to think the
person in question is on the plane, I really don't see any problem.

~~~
morgante
Allowing violations of our rights "just in this case" is how they get stripped
down to nothing. The government does not have the right to demand your ID at
any time they please.

~~~
cperciva
I'm not saying "at any time they please". I'm saying "when they have probable
cause to believe the person they're looking for is on the plane".

~~~
morgante
I don't think that's sufficient probable cause. They don't suspect that
_everyone_ on the plane is an illegal immigrant

More importantly, they should plenty of less-invasive procedures. The airline
should have a passenger manifest of everyone who actually flew, for one thing.

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sova
Oh good, I can't wait to see what awesome innovations rapid militarisation of
our country will bring!

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marricks
Since it's easy to be unclear of your legal rights and protections, can you
ask officer if you're legally obligated to comply with their request, and if
they're recorded lying can the agency be held accountable?

That might be another way to try and have a legal push back, as most people,
probably myself too, might not feel up to trying to stand their ground on
their rights impromptu with no time to become aware of whatever specific
rights will challenged ahead of time.

~~~
hyperpape
My non-lawyerly understanding is that in theory, officers of the law have
substantial protection as long as they can claim they were not willfully
violating your rights. On top of that, in practice they have even more
protections
([http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4221000](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4221000))

------
LyalinDotCom
Would love to know the legal details behind this scenario and what rights
people actually have to be stopped by various types of law enforcement, in
such a simple case as just leaving a flight you were just legally on.

~~~
morgante
Constitutionally, they don't have a leg to stand on. The police cannot demand
your ID without probable cause.

I wonder what would have happened if someone refused.

~~~
leereeves
This really isn't unusual.

I was once stopped and asked for my ID (and other questions) because someone
had committed a robbery in the area.

People are routinely stopped at checkpoints when crossing state lines, when
police are searching for someone, and at "dragnets" for DUI and immigration.

And yet, suddenly, the left-wing media cares?

Could that have anything to do with their candidate (Hillary) having lost the
election?

They're going to exploit anything they can to make Trump look bad, just as the
right-wing did when Obama was in office.

~~~
morgante
I agree it's not unusual and I doubt this has anything to do with Trump.

That doesn't change the fact that it's unconstitutional to require ID.

"Dragnets" are not a good thing. There's a _reason_ people often use them as a
synonym for invasive and authoritarian tactics.

~~~
leereeves
I'm just commenting on the media's sudden interest, which I think has
everything to do with their opposition to Trump.

I (and many people on both sides) have been opposed to dragnets (including DUI
and immigration dragnets) for a long time.

DAE remember when right wingers were mocked for those videos in which they
simply responded "Am I being detained?"

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LyndsySimon
Is there any evidence anyone refused? If not, then they can frame it as
consensual and no one will have standing to challenge it.

~~~
maxerickson
Hurray!

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hrodriguez
Click bait title with a touch of _fear-mongering_ from another MSM outlet.

"as they searched for an undocumented immigrant who had received a deportation
order to leave the United States."

"The search was conducted at the request of Immigration and Customs
Enforcement"

Seems completely reasonable.

~~~
geofft
Why? What makes it reasonable to search all passengers on a plane to find an
undocumented immigrant, that wouldn't also make it reasonable to search all
passengers on a bus, or all congregants at a church, or all pedestrians at a
crosswalk, or similar?

What happens if I don't have my citizenship papers with me? Is ICE going to
take my word that I'm not the person they're looking for and I'm actually a
citizen?

Why should I, a _natural-born US citizen_ , be obligated to carry my
citizenship papers around with me in any of those situations just in case ICE
decides to show up? I have certain rights as a US citizen, and one of those is
that I expect to be able to travel domestically without carrying my papers and
without ICE detaining me.

~~~
zaatar
That you're a _natural-born_ citizen is completely irrelevant; naturalized
citizens are no less entitled to the exact same rights less serving as POTUS.
See the supreme court ruling from Luria v. United States, 231 U.S. 9 (1913).
Link:
[https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/231/9/case.html](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/231/9/case.html)

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walrus01
pick up that can

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Mikeb85
"Undocumented immigrant"? You mean illegal alien.

Also, providing ID is pretty normal. Especially on flights. Even domestic
ones. Or so I thought. Then again I live in communist Canada.

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alistproducer2
This administration seems intent on creating problems within what have been
relatively stable systems.

~~~
Jimmie_Rustle
What is the problem being created? They were looking for a fugitive

~~~
x1798DE
Why would they check everyone's ID instead of just the people who looked like
the person they were looking for? At least people who are obviously the wrong
age and sex...

------
ehasbrouck
Analysis from the Identity Project (PapersPlease.org):

"...In the case of Delta Flight 1583, we don’t know what would have happened
if a passenger declined to answer questions, declined to show ID, or tried to
walk past the CBP officers and leave the plane. Some of the passengers might
perfectly legally have passed through TSA checkpoints and boarded the flight
without having or showing any ID, as people do every day.

It’s unclear whether a court would find that, in the circumstances depicted in
this photo, a reasonable person would have felt free to leave without
answering questions or showing ID documents.

The Supreme Court has also ruled that law enforcement officers questioning and
searching passengers on a common carrier are not required to tell you whether
you have to comply with their “requests”, or to tell you whether you are free
to leave.

The only way to find out whether you are required to answer questions is to
stand mute. The only way to find out if you are required to produce or hand
over documents is to keep them out of sight and not to hand over or open your
bags or put your hands in your pockets. The only way to find out if you are
free to leave is to walk away. The only way to find out whether government
agents will allow you to exercise your rights is to exercise your rights. Only
then are you likely to be found to have standing to challenge any infringement
of your rights.

So far as we can tell, all the passengers on Delta Flight 1583 produced and
handed over documents that the CBP officers found acceptable, and were then
allowed to leave. So we will probably never know whether the courts would have
upheld the legality of the CBP officers’ actions."

More (including links to statute and regulations purporting to authorize CBP
boarding of domestic flights):

[https://papersplease.org/wp/2017/02/24/border-search-and-
id-...](https://papersplease.org/wp/2017/02/24/border-search-and-id-demand-
from-passengers-on-a-domestic-flight/)

