
Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job - Shivetya
http://www.omaha.com/columnists/hansen/hansen-omaha-man-liked-a-tweet-and-then-he-lost/article_74b9021a-3753-5b33-b096-f0af3c8372d6.html
======
corobo
The meat of the story is that Omaha man worked for Marriott hotels on customer
support. Their support system allows their agents to like tweets.

The man appears to have inadvertently clicked like on a tweet while dealing
with a large influx of support messages (due to a promo going on) thanking
Marriott for listing Tibet as its own country which was a huge no-no due to
Mariott's presence in China. Execs fire him as a part of their "sorry China"
grovelling.

My kneejerk is to believe fired man. I've clicked like on things by accident
browsing regular Twitter, never mind a support system designed to skim through
hundreds of requests. Unfortunately belief isn't going to restore the job,
this is another lesson for the pile that companies will axe employees over
fixing (heck, explaining) a problem with the system. It's the cheapest option.

If liking a tweet will infuriate the largest (by population) country in the
world, maybe $14/hr support agents shouldn't be able to one-click like tweets.

Another question does occur - if it's such a big deal for them, why is/was
Tibet listed as its own country in their system that prompted the liked tweet
in the first place?

~~~
cylinder
The real story is he has no employment rights because he's in America and he's
"at will."

They can dismiss him because they don't like his lunch selection that day and
he has no rights.

That's at will employment. This type of situation plays out all over the
country everyday.

~~~
curun1r
Or the real story is how much businesses kowtow to the Chinese government and
enable their human rights abuses. I would be quite happy to see Marriott face
blowback in the US and other parts of the world over this as people show their
support for a free Tibet. Letting China browbeat businesses into submission
for the privilege of operating in that market isn't a good thing and more
businesses need to be made to decide between China and the rest of the world.
Otherwise, the Chinese government will continue to get away with this.

But it was the Chinese government that blew a single like out of proportion
and threatened Marriott with millions of dollars in lost business. Marriott's
response to scapegoat and fire the individual to appease China makes complete
sense so long as we continue to allow companies to get away with that
behavior. It won't stop until we make an example out of one or two companies
to show that they at least need to consider the financial ramifications of
appeasement too.

~~~
exolymph
> Letting China browbeat businesses into submission for the privilege of
> operating in that market isn't a good thing

I don't think "letting" is a very accurate word in this case — Marriott could
pull out of China (likely at a loss) but the company doesn't want to because
it would be financially stupid. In fact, as a public company Marriott is
mandated to act in its shareholders' best _financial_ interests.

~~~
michaelmrose
"as a public company Marriott is mandated to act in its shareholders' best
financial interests"

The reality: You can't take shareholder money out on the front lawn and set it
on fire

What the internet thinks: Company not only can do insert shitty thing here but
MUST do insert shitty thing here because they have a fiduciary duty.

The problem is that the internet perception of reality is semi fictional. They
damn well could have simply stated that they as a company don't take a
personal position on Tibet but wont be bullied and faced near zero chance of
successful lawsuit even if investors took a short term bath due to business in
china.

To refute this simply provide examples of investors who successfully sued
because of decisions they didn't agree with an explain how this situation is
similar.

~~~
wcunning
The recourses available in court are few and far between against officers of
the company as a shareholder. That's not how this gets resolved or what the
officers are concerned with. The shareholder power is to vote in a different
board of directors that will do what you as a shareholder want done -- virtue
signaling against China included. The best example of that, and the amount of
power it actually takes is probably Carl Icahn.

------
intopieces
Even if it wasn't an accident -- even if he saw the Tweet, and on behalf of
Marriott and in full intention of broadcasting such, he clicked "Like" on this
tweet, it's completely insane he would be fired for it. The tweet exhibits a
positive sentiment. I would not expect most people to know that this sentiment
matters to China.

This is another example of China exerting influence on the open web, and it's
shameful that we have ceded leadership to China like this.

~~~
tinza123
It is not that hard to imagine being fired by "clicking" likes, let's not
oversimplify like this. Official tweeter accounts carry weights. Plus this is
not about China at all, what if this is a Nazi tweet? An ISIS tweet? An anti-
LGBT tweet? It's either the company's way of dealing with PR problems, or the
employee's misconduct, but not about China.

~~~
YSFEJ4SWJUVU6
A dictatorship like China raising the issue over Tibet is the equivalent of
(an alternative universe) powerful Nazi Germany getting someone fired in the
U.S. over liking a tweet about Jewish rights issue.

~~~
tinza123
WOW that escalates quickly. I thought the Americans liked capitalism.

~~~
ronilan
> _I thought the Americans liked capitalism._

Depends from which account they accidently "liked" it.

------
michaelmrose
Lets be real about America's relationship with China. They are our enemies.
Both parties seek to dominate the globe even if nobody is anxious to do so
bullets and bombs. Both parties have values that can never be reconciled.

How do you reconcile the notion that man ought to be free with a society that
believes in lifelong servitude and a mans proper place under each others
boots. A society that poisons its people and executes the parties responsible
only when it becomes a public embarrassment. That dissembles undesirable
portions of its populace for spare body parts for more affluent and desirable
portions of its populace. That rolls over its people with tanks when they dare
to disagree. Americans may be at many times poor examples of the values we
hold dear but our society is at worst working towards living our ideals.

China is nothing but a more tractable, predictable, and sane North Korea and
nothing in our lifetimes or our childrens lifetimes is going to change that.

A company that holds itself to be an American company shouldn't bow its neck
to terrible people or ask Americans to do so.

I am aware that they are a multinational and may not wish to be seen as
American which is just fine by me. I just don't wish our government employees
or leadership to patronize them and strongly suggest that those who feel
strongly about America also abstain from giving anyone affiliated with
Marriott their money.

~~~
chibg10
I don't think the issue is Chinese culture, but it is Chinese leadership--
which, admittedly, has encouraged and created a culture of concerning
nationalism and subservience to authoritarians with no respect for human
rights or rule of law.

If you look back in contemporary Chinese history, there are several episodes
where influential groups were openly supporting a more democratic society.

It wasn't Chinese culture that stopped them. It was Mao, the CCP, the tanks in
Tienamen Square, and the more recently the ubiquitous propaganda and
censorship.

I agree that the CCP is an enemy we should we wary of. But we should be just
as wary of writing off any large group of fellow humans as enemies. The enemy
is the brainwashers themselves, not their victims.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
_It wasn 't Chinese culture that stopped them. It was Mao, the CCP, the tanks
in Tienamen Square, and the more recently the ubiquitous propaganda and
censorship (...) the brainwashers (...)_

In the last four decades, the poverty rate in China has fallen from over 90%
to below 10%.

[http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecial...](http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecialNoteChart1.png)

Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty, most people
have seen a radical improvement in their standard of living in the last
decades.

Do you really think the main reason why they don't rise against their
government is "propaganda" and "brainwash"? How many well-informed and not-
brainwashed people would choose to support a revolution (with the associated
risk of violence, chaos and deaths) when the statu quo is a fast, steady and
practically unrivaled increase in everyday living conditions, even if the
government is authoritarian? I don't think many would, regardless of whether
their culture were Chinese or Western.

~~~
kenny87
well said, to the contrary, it appears we -- americans/europeans -- are the
brainwashed ones. instead of finding common cause we our fellow human beings
we all too easily follow our leadership's narrative that the people of China
are our enemies.

~~~
michaelmrose
We have plenty of common causes say fighting cancer. We can link arms, sing
songs, fight cancer then go back to trying to dominate each other globally and
establish our mutually incompatible values as the global norm. Playing this
off as Americans being brain washed is just naive. They are literally our
enemies unless you have conveniently forgotten Korea.

------
Lazare
I find stories like this very frustrating. It seems pretty clear that:

1) Roy Jones did nothing wrong, but lost his job through no fault of his own.

2) Marriott did something morally wrong because it was easy, and will suffer
zero consequences.

3) China doesn't really care about the underlying issue, but is engaging in a
cynical power play to exert dominance.

In a better world, Marriott would have refused to buckle, or having done so,
would face meaningful consequences. In this world, the only party in this
sotry to actually suffer is the only one who is morally blameless. And that's
just how it is.

~~~
factsaresacred
> China doesn't really care about the underlying issue, but is engaging in a
> cynical power play to exert dominance.

Boy, I wish that was true. China is petulant beyond belief. A thousands years
old civilization that rallies their netizens any time anybody dare "insult the
feelings of the Chinese people".

That's how illegitimate and insecure powers behave.

~~~
Tade0
This makes me think: How fragile must this power be if a "like" on social
media is enough to elicit such a response?

------
rndmize
> China forced Marriott to suspend all online booking for a week at its nearly
> 300 Chinese hotels. A Chinese leader also demanded the company publicly
> apologize and “seriously deal with the people responsible,” the Journal
> reported.

I look forward to the coming years where China continues to grow in influence
and power, and the useful things they choose to do with them. /s

The last time I felt like I was seeing a use of government power this idiotic
was when Congress decided to investigate cheating in the MLB (or NFL or
whatever it was).

~~~
8bitsrule
I think they've been influenced by seeing all the attention DT gets for
throwing shit fits.

~~~
azernik
Trust me, they were pulling the kinds of stunts over Tibet and Taiwan and the
Diaoyu islands and a few other issues loooong before Trump made that fateful
ride down the escalator.

------
ghostcluster
And thus the Chinese Communist Party's cold authoritarian censorship extends
overseas to strike at the job of a US citizen.

It was just a few months ago that I wrote this here on HN:

> I even feel a personal dampening on what I will say publicly about China on
> social media, just because of hypothetical tech/travel opportunities, and I
> don't even live there.

Obviously, those fears were founded. Part of me is happy about the Trump
tariffs because it will force more multinational corporations to stand up and
show their true selves with regards to what matters more to them: access to
the Chinese market, or basic human justice and dignity.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16272683](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16272683)

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
> I even feel a personal dampening on what I will say publicly about China on
> social media, just because of hypothetical tech/travel opportunities, and I
> don't even live there.

I feel the same, but not only about China.

------
kodablah
Stories like this are how companies end up on my mental boycott list which is
fairly indefinite especially when their value-add over competitors is limited
or non-existent. I'd be glad to read the other side of this as I usually don't
like to draw conclusions from pieces like this, but I suspect it's pretty
clear in this case. /me slots Marriott just above Nestle in mental Rolodex.
Bet they can't quantify that, I don't have a Twitter account.

~~~
derekp7
I've tried this in the past, but then came to the realization that there
aren't really that many ethical companies. And for each item such as this that
you hear about, there are millions of incidents from their competitors that go
unnoticed.

------
jdironman
My father was 'Rookie of the Year' in 1988 for Marriott hotels. He got to take
my mother to an actual grand ball at the time for their ceremonies, crystal
chandelier and all. He was only a cook at the time but an exceptionally hard
worker who really stood out. He worked two jobs at the time. One being at
Marriott hotels, and the other cleaning a whole Kroger's floor by himself. 20
something thousand square feet, swept, mopped, buffed, and shined single-
handed after a full shift at Marriott. For some reason this story stood out to
me. The world these days is sometimes too connected for its own good that it
forgets to relate to the individual.

------
seshagiric
This is an atrocity. The image in the said tweet clearly shows a decently
large group of people holding 'thanks Marriot' cards. It's easy to think why
the employee liked it. And really how many people know about geopolitically
sensitive areas like Tibet...

------
kylnew
Honestly, Marriott is a terrible chain with contempt for its own customers.
Every time I use a Marriott (not always by choice) I’m insulted by the quality
of food for the price they ask. I once got $10 ‘fresh squeezed OJ’ at
breakfast before knowing the price and realizing they were pouring it from a
Tropicana container. So when I hear this story I’m not even remotely surprised
by Marriotts behavior. Upper management has its head so far up its own rear
end this is par for the course.

~~~
Aloha
Was it a franchised property, or OandO, or was it just merely managed by
Marriott?

~~~
kylnew
Not certain but it’s been a repeat problem that I eventually realized Marriott
having their name on it was the common denominator

------
chrischen
"Dozens of social media accounts were tweeting angry things, including many
death threats, at both Roy and Marriott. This seems especially odd considering
Twitter itself is officially banned in China, and thus can be accessed only by
residents breaking the law or by bot accounts."

Not sure why they assume that "dozens of social media accounts" of pro-China
supporters is not possible. They're making some weird assumption that only
people within China could possibly support the Chinese government on the
issue. This paragraph makes no sense at all. The issue is actually quite
controversial, and in my experience most Chinese overseas support China on the
issue, as it's seen as similar to the US/Hawaii situation and an affront to
China's sovereignty and management of internal affairs.

~~~
kodablah
> They're making some weird assumption that only people within China could
> possibly support the Chinese government on the issue.

That's not how I read it. I read it saying it's odd that a platform banned as
bad by a government is so readily used by those who support the government. I
won't even address the end of your post in detail because it's unrelated to
governments punishing businesses for liked tweets.

~~~
chrischen
That still doesn't make sense as censorship of internet and the
sovereignty/right of Chinese people to stay in and govern Tibet are wholly
unrelated issues.

That's like implying that people who support Chinese control of Tibet must
also be government shills, or pro-government, or communist party members.

Supporting the issue of China/Chinese in Tibet != supporting the government or
all government policies.

------
avree
It's strange to me how much emphasis they're putting on the tweet. Wasn't the
spark that incensed China so much their decision to list Tibet as a country in
the survey?

~~~
djrogers
Nobody really knew about that until the yeeet was liked by the Marriott
corporate account, so in a sense you’re right but the ‘like’ was the proximate
cause of the firestorm.

~~~
elefanten
Well, whoever sent the tweet that was liked seemed to have heard about it.

------
coldacid
Well, I certainly won't be staying at any Marriott hotels any more. That's an
abysmal way of handling things.

~~~
thisacctforreal
I think these personal boycotts are important and I also participate in them
(Nestle, Facebook, etc).

But it's unfortunate know that we will likely never be able to match the scale
of a boycott from China.

edit: However if China keeps doing stunts like this then companies might be
able to make the decision not to do business there.

~~~
kodablah
Were we a squeakier, more collective wheel it might be different. I had a
similar thought a few months back actually:
[https://github.com/cretz/software-
ideas/issues/66](https://github.com/cretz/software-ideas/issues/66). But I
can't be bothered to go run around on Twitter, Yelp, business-shame-site du
jour all the time. It's why companies with self-imposed principles instead of
purchased ones fare better in the long run, and it can't be quantified.

------
peapicker
If Marriott were really serious, they should have fired the survey writer
instead. They again, maybe that person was fired too.

But as to appeasing China, well... I'm not sympathetic.

~~~
zrb05293
You’re putting an awful lot of faith in the amount of work executives will do.
Not to disparage all C-level executives. But I’m not surprised at all that
“China is mad at this tweet...Fire the person on the other end of it.” Is as
far as they were willing to dig. They usually fix symptoms, not problems.

------
clishem
Sounds like the script of a Black Mirror episode to me.

~~~
zeth___
Someone with a twitter account should tweet this at Donald Trump.

That will be a real black mirror episode.

~~~
Stanleyc23
the pathos of trump was basically covered in that episode with Waldo that blue
bear. fun fact: it predates trump's presidential run by several years.

~~~
nasredin
Fun trivia:

Charlie Brooker talks himself of predicting a Trump-like person becoming
president and that Black Mirror "Waldo" episode.

Don't recall the source.

------
your-nanny
Firing the employee seems counterproductive. It hurts morale, and doesn't
actually solve the problem.

~~~
djrogers
I’m not sure Tiebtan independence is a problem that Marriott can solve.

~~~
toss1
Tho they can't solve it single-handedly, they can refuse to be part of the
problem by kowtowing to the Chinese Communist Party.

And in case it isn't clear: the only proper attitude to this kind of bullying
from the likes of dictatorial regimes is Eff 'em.

China are only trying to bully everyone into helping propagate a lie. The fact
is that they invaded the country of Tibet in living memory and it's leader
still lives in exile. It was nothing but a territorial land and water
resources grab. And they have been working on cultural genocide ever since,
starting with burning monastaries within the first week of the invasion, and
continuing with in-migration of Chinese to swamp the traditional culture, and
kidnapping Tibet's religious leaders.

We may not be able to force their hand, but every company and person can
refuse to participate in their lying charade. (and just to be clear, my beef
is with the CCP, not the people of China, who are largely just as subject to
the unjust govt)

~~~
anonforthis323
Well bullies recognize bullies. They even like to hang out with other bullies.
Big businesses didn't get to their position by being nice. They bullied their
way to the top.

That's why I'm guessing that Marriott actually views China's reactions as
reasonable.

But I do agree that China's handling of the Tibet situation is poor. They
should take a look at how America was able to pacify the natives. Set aside
some land for the Tibetans, let them have their own casinos or temples or
whatever they want. Then in 100 years or so, the public image of it will
change.

~~~
nasredin
>>That's why I'm guessing that Marriott actually views China's reactions as
reasonable.

I managed to ignore your posts in this thread, but unfortunately read the
above.

Authoritarians always have at least some support from the people and "useful
idiots" and the corrupt from abroad.

------
pseingatl
The real story here is not the at-will status of American employees, but the
extraterritorial application of law. A Chinese worker is familiar with Chinese
censorship and policy and know that Tibet is a third rail issue. You cannot
possibly expect a low-level employee in Nebraska would know this. So when a
country (like the U.S., like China) tries to impose its laws (like the U.S.
did in New Zealand to Kim Dotcom) you have unexpected consequences. As
countries seek to criminalize webhosting (FOSTA), the Internet will be
increasingly siloed. If you want to know what the Internet will look like in
twenty years, look at North Korea. Connections outside extremely limited. Ony
North Korean laws apply. That is the direction we're headed.

------
piss_a_mystic
A company will always err on the side of firing an employee when threatened
with a lawsuit or government action. The principle behind this behavior is
very simple: make sure the finger is pointed at the party least capable of
fighting for its own rights.

It's anecdote time using this throwaway account.

I used to work as a software engineer at a major hedge fund, where most of the
computer systems were run by an outside vendor. One of these systems was a
Flash-based data tool, an archaic piece of work that was poorly implemented,
entirely undocumented, and thoroughly hated by everyone at the firm. I was
part of a three-person team who, along with the CTO, were hired to replace
this website. We were told to use whatever means were necessary to figure out
a way to build better systems for the hedge fund.

On a fine summer afternoon not so long ago, my teammate was trying to figure
out how the existing Flash-based website worked. This person downloaded a
popular Flash decompilation tool in order to peek at the UI source code.
Neither him nor me were aware that the same vendor who ran this Flash-based
website had also installed surveillance software that pulled web browsing
history from every computer at the firm.

It turned out that the firm's contract with this vendor included explicit
verbiage that prohibited any kind of reverse engineering of the Flash-based
website, and specifically called out Flash decompilation as a forbidden
activity. Obviously, none of the employees were ever notified of this clause
in the contract, and were unaware of the forbidden nature of this activity.

A few days later, the entire department - the "offending" colleague and two
other engineers including myself, as well as the CTO - were all summarily
fired for violating a contract clause that none knew about.

This man's story is sad and regrettable, yet it does not surprise me in the
least. The firm screwed up, and chose to take a course of action that limited
its own responsibility at the expense of four livelihoods.

Sic transit gloria mundi, while American greed continues on its own vicious
course.

------
fra
This is the exact wrong approach to incident management. A business intending
not to make this kind of mistakes again would hold a post mortem and fix the
system failures encountered. Marriott just needed a scapegoat.

------
Tistel
I feel bad for guy. Everyone has had some mind numbing task that causes you to
space out. But! Here is a half baked app idea that might prevent, or at least
reduce, this unfortunate situation. Make it like the nuclear launch systems in
movies (probably set in rural Nebraska deep down 300 feet below a corn field).
There are multiple people getting the same social media feeds. They react
independently, but actual responses are delayed. If all the people noticed an
event (tweet etc) it goes into a further consideration pool, the rest are
dropped. In the further consideration pool, event reaction only get out and
leave the system (become real) if the majority are in agreement. In the binary
situations it’s a simple vote majority. In free form text, use ML to
characterize the content into a few buckets (affirmation, lukewarm, negative
and joke (or whatever)). You should call the app “social kaboom averted.”

Personally, I want to live in a society where all three of the voters vote for
Tibet over bastard commies. Eff Marriot, or no, wait. Eff Mary-rot!

The system could also work on a delay. So the same person has to double check
their own tweets (and hacker news comments) after x hours. That app is called
“sleep on it.”

------
tim333
tl;rd Marriot employee dealing with 1000s of tweets liked:

>Friends of Tibet congratulate global hotel chain #Marriott International for
listing #Tibet as a country along with #HongKong and #Taiwan.
pic.twitter.com/SXKWb20v3e

China freaked out and

>forced Marriott to suspend all online booking for a week at its nearly 300
Chinese hotels. A Chinese leader also demanded the company publicly apologize
and “seriously deal with the people responsible,”

Maybe Marriott could quietly hire him back.

The Chinese are a bit touchy over what I think is the largest military
invasion and land grab of the last century by area.

~~~
anonforthis323
If I remember correctly, China didn't "freak out."

A bunch of Chinese patriots freaked out and started to tweet/weibo it and
brought it to the attention of the Chinese government.

At that point, the government had to act, otherwise, they would be seen as
soft on separatism.

------
msie
They should just rehire him quietly. I hardly think China is going to keep
tabs on his employment status.

~~~
jacobush
We will let them know.

------
rubyn00bie
There is only one person to blame for this and it is the executive in charge.
What a fucking chicken shit and horrible leader to throw his subordinate under
the bus for what is a process and institutional problem.

I️ wont be using the Marriot again (not that I️ wouldve).

~~~
mistermann
I think some blame belongs with Western leadership who've created this
monster. Without companies falling over themselves to set up shop in China,
and Western governments not stopping to think about the geopolitical
ramifications, China never would have amassed this much power in so little
time, obviously with a lack of corresponding wisdom.

Unfortunately, there's now no going back, _lest we cause a recession_! China
will be the de facto leader of the world very soon, and when that happens the
Marriots or any of us won't have the option of refusing their requests - you
will do it, or else.

------
drawkbox
A data bill of rights might be the issue of our time.

No matter if you are in a free country or anywhere in the world, people should
be able to have opinion that is represented in their digital form.

The US could lead on this and we would be smart to push for it.

Also, maybe with our surveillance society there is some path to forgiveness if
people makes mistakes. Everything now is too much of a permanent record which
was always feared and not fair for the human condition where people make
mistakes and change.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
It is unfortunate that the US seems to not be serious about rights not already
in the Constitution. In international agreements, it seems to sign but not
ratify them.

(1) [https://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2013/10/why-us-
so...](https://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2013/10/why-us-so-reluctant-
sign-human-rights-treaties) (2) [https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-
explains/2013/10/e...](https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-
explains/2013/10/economist-explains-2) (3)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_u...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_unratified_by_the_United_States)

In addition, the current political climate seems to want to remove some
protections already in the constitution and I would think other countries
would be hesitant to enter agreements such as these with the US, considering
things like backing out of trade agreements and the Paris climate agreement.

------
peterkelly
They just fired the _one_ guy who they would have been able to rely on 100% to
never, _ever_ make that mistake again.

------
nugi
Mariott just lost my family, and companies business. I hope china was worth
it. No integrity, means no support from me.

------
rayiner
Glad to see that the cowards at Marriott are willing to stand up to insane
Chinese bullying. I’m switching to Hilton.

~~~
tptacek
You don't think Hilton routinely fires people for unfair, chickenshit reasons
too, taking advantage of the immense power differential a giant corporation
has over low-skilled labor? Isn't _that_ the real problem here?

------
w8rbt
Someone needs to hire this guy. It was an honest mistake.

~~~
orangecat
_It was an honest mistake._

The only mistake he made was accepting a job at a company that turned out to
be run by spineless bootlickers.

------
victimized
A company will always err on the side of firing an employee when threatened
with a lawsuit or government action. The principle behind this behavior is
very simple: make sure the finger is pointed at the party least capable of
fighting for its own rights. It's anecdote time using this throwaway account.

I used to work as a software engineer at a major hedge fund, where most of the
computer systems were run by an outside vendor. One of these systems was a
Flash-based data tool, an archaic piece of work that was poorly implemented,
entirely undocumented, and thoroughly hated by everyone at the firm. I was
part of a three-person team who, along with the CTO, were hired to replace
this website. We were told to use whatever means were necessary to figure out
a way to build better systems for the hedge fund.

On a fine summer afternoon not so long ago, my teammate was trying to figure
out how the existing Flash-based website worked. This person downloaded a
popular Flash decompilation tool in order to peek at the UI source code.
Neither him nor me were aware that the same vendor who ran this Flash-based
website had also installed surveillance software that pulled web browsing
history from every computer at the firm.

It turned out that the firm's contract with this vendor included explicit
verbiage that prohibited any kind of reverse engineering of the Flash-based
website, and specifically called out Flash decompilation as a forbidden
activity. Obviously, none of the employees were ever notified of this clause
in the contract, and were unaware of the forbidden nature of this activity.

A few days later, the entire department - the "offending" colleague and two
other engineers including myself, as well as the CTO - were all summarily
fired for violating a contract clause that none knew about.

This man's story is sad and regrettable, yet it does not surprise me in the
least. The firm screwed up, and chose to take a course of action that limited
its own responsibility at the expense of four livelihoods.

Sic transit gloria mundi, while American greed continues on its own vicious
course.

------
erikb
a) It can't be a dream job if you get fired for liking a tweet. The dream job
only existed in your head and getting fired hit you with the truth that your
fantasy ad reality don't match.

b) Midnight on-call support is not a dream job. Have you ever worked in
anything that is close to customers? These jobs are a pain in the a __and
mostly underpaid. Also you can always, always find another job like that.

c) He didn't get fired for a like. He got fired because his actions resulted
in losing millions of dollars. In such a situation someone needs to get fired.
It doesn't matter if anybody is at fault or not. It must have consequences.
And as the lowest level employee in the chain it's easy to fire you first.
Sh*t happens.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
For a) Sure, that changed the "dream job"... but come on, it seems he didn't
think that a simple mistake could raise such a stir. And it seems a misguided
like would generally be something reprimanded instead of it losing your job.
This situation was weirdly blown out of proportion for numerous reasons, which
weren't his fault. As far as we know, everything leading up to that moment
could have seemed reasonable enough to the man.

for b: That's nearly twice the minimum wage. It isn't manual labour, you
aren't doing collections, and they likely offer decent health insurance for
call center employees on top of a couple weeks vacation and a little bit of
flexibility. Sure, there are going to be stressful nights, but others will be
full of other sorts of people. Who is to say that can't be someone's dream
job?

------
Aloha
I'm a Marriott rewards platinum member, with over a year in house, and staying
in a Marriott hotel right now, and I find this behavior disgraceful - and
while I'm likely to complain to Marriott about it (and did previously), I'm
unlikely to change my stay preferences.

Most Marriott employees I know of (not who work for franchises), speak highly
of the work environment and culture that I know its a good place to work/be -
but behavior like this is still at best foolish - I mean this guy just learned
a multi-million dollar lesson, isnt he the one you'd want to keep on?

------
drngdds
Why does Twitter make likes public? There isn't even a way to hide them,
afaik. I don't use Twitter but if I did, I certainly wouldn't want everyone
knowing everything I like.

------
SeoxyS
The rational and nice thing to do for Marriott is to fire the guy, give him a
nice severance and a wink-wink apology, and hook him up with a gig at Starwood
Hotel & Resorts.

------
Steeeve
Seems like they could have saved themselves a good deal of money and headache
by offering this guy a severance package ahead of his firing being made
public.

------
m3kw9
It may not look like it, but this is equivalent to accidentally pressing a
missle button and it hit the country on the other side.

~~~
John_KZ
Yeah, Americans seem pretty indifferent on such issues, probably because they
oppress others too well and don't get to hear such things themselves.

What if a major French company lists the Falklands under Argentina? What if
open street map deletes Israel? What if Airbus "likes" a tweet from a middle
eastern man that calls for the complete removal of US forces from Iraq? Things
like that matter, and really piss off the involved parties, especially when
they're at least technically correct (as in the case of Tibet being
autonomous, but de-facto _part_ of China).

~~~
jodrellblank
_What if a major French company lists the Falklands under Argentina?_

You'd get a reddit "BritishProblems" grumpy post about it?

[https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2emlt0/i_w...](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2emlt0/i_was_filling_in_an_online_application_and_under/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/search?q=country+li...](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/search?q=country+list&restrict_sr=on)

------
bArray
For those saying something along the lines of "should we expect a massive
reaction every time a few people get upset?" \- just look at the UK and the
Nazi pug story [1]. It seems as though a mass of outraged people on social
media can have very real life consequences as there's no evidence for it
stopping anytime soon.

Personally I think this is more towards a vigilante mob culture and in most
cases it's counterproductive to throw people under the bus. The real failure
here was Marriott failing to envision somebody one day accidentally pressing a
button in "error" (at least to cause negative PR). They've set a dangerous
standard for themselves that large negative PR should result in job losses.

[1] [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/09/nazi-pug-man-
arr...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/09/nazi-pug-man-arrested-
after-teaching-girlfriends-dog-to-perform/)

------
verelo
Great idea! Immediately made me think of this video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjAcyTXRunY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjAcyTXRunY)

Hopefully no birds like this in the area.

------
mcherm
China is a bully. Bullys are a serious problem when they are bigger and
stronger than most everyone around and also the community does not band
together to stop them.

------
jccalhoun
Maybe we need to rethink unions and employment at will laws.

------
joe_the_user
Aside from other questions, in what way does this mid-level management
position wherein one is constantly surveiled a "dream job"? Ah, because the
employers only hire people who claim it's their dream job? Because mostly a
simple unfair firing situation wouldn't get the outrage it deserved unless the
situation would flogged someone losing their dream job?

None of the rhetoric inflation involved is the fault of this unfairly fired
guy but it is an unfortunate sign of today.

~~~
WhitneyLand
Because it was his dream job. Are you so out of touch with people on a less
ambitious path than yourself to not be able to see how that's possible?

Based on what the article says who knows, that job might have been the first
thing he did that his parents were proud of:

 _" Roy Jones freely admits he’s far from saintly. He spent time in Boys Town
as a teenager. He developed drug and alcohol dependency issues before
graduating from high school, and eventually got three DUIs as a young adult.
He bounced aimlessly from job to job.

But the Marriott job was different, he said. In his 18 months there, he had
been promoted once, then given a raise, as superiors rewarded his skill and
hard work.

His mother was proud to tell her friends that her son worked for a big hotel
chain."_

------
_rpd
tl;dr: He liked this tweet from an official Marriott account, upsetting
Chinese officials ...

> Friends of Tibet congratulate global hotel chain #Marriott International for
> listing #Tibet as a country along with #HongKong and #Taiwan.

------
bryanrasmussen
I feel sorry for the guy because it really seems like he needs better dreams.

------
jknoepfler
That's the first time I've been hit with a survey-wall. Warning that the
content is not free. The title is click bait anyway, so I'm not sure what I
was expecting.

~~~
joelrunyon
There's no survey-wall.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
There was for me on mobile, not on desktop.

~~~
WiseWeasel
On desktop there's just auto-playing video with obnoxiously loud commercials;
reminded me I need the Mute Sites By Default [1] extension installed on this
computer.

[1] [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mute-sites-
by...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mute-sites-by-default/)

------
nl
Surprised no one asks the obvious question: why doesn’t Twitter (“can’t make
any money”) charge for running a tweet competition and fix their bot problem.

~~~
colejohnson66
Because they don’t want to fix their bots; it boosts their. numbers

~~~
nl
That’s easy to say, but one look at their recent investment call transcripts
shows that’s a pretty naive view.

To make it clear, number of users is great, but revenue growth is much much
better.

------
HillaryBriss
I think Marriott's response was heavy handed and excessive. I'm not staying at
any Marriott hotels.

------
douglaswlance
Welcome to 2018

------
djinnandtonic
"Answer a survey to continue reading this content."

No.

------
zeth___
Up next, all atheists and homosexuals get fired from any company that deals
with Saudi Arabia.

We can't let backwards dictatorships have any say in how a democracy is ran.

Marion should be made an example of in the US. Say a wink wink nudge nudge
major tax audit of every single Marion hotel.

~~~
andrei_says_
> We can't let backwards dictatorships have any say in how a democracy is ran.

Unfortunately we can, we do, and we will continue to, unless we make it more
expensive for companies to submit to than to oppose such forces.

Given the role money plays in our legislative process, I think we will be
seeing more of this.

~~~
superkuh
Not only can we, but now with the CLOUD Act passed as a rider to the budget
bill those countries have even more options since the law will,

>Enable foreign police to collect and wiretap people's communications from
U.S. companies, without obtaining a U.S. warrant.

>Allow foreign nations to demand personal data stored in the United States,
without prior review by a judge.

>Allow the U.S. president to enter "executive agreements" that empower police
in foreign nations that have weaker privacy laws than the United States to
seize data in the United States while ignoring U.S. privacy laws.

>Allow foreign police to collect someone's data without notifying them about
it.

------
codeisawesome
It's amusing how much dread is inspired inside when I try to make a comment
here. Can't say anything without marking myself against one of the many
parties here. What a drama!

~~~
nasredin
If you don't speak up for yourself, somebody else will and you may not like
what the say.

------
ada1981
TL;DR: Marriott puts out a survey, someone compliments them on the content of
the survey via a tweet, an employee likes the tweet, and gets fired because
China gets triggered.

~~~
ada1981
I've come to appreciate when I make posts that get downvoted sometimes,
because it means I'm not bending to the will of peer pressure.

------
bb88
Usually when an issue like this gets up to the CEO, there really isn't any
other choice but to fire whoever is responsible. I don't necessarily agree
with it, but the reality is: China >> Mariott.

~~~
gowld
Sure. The CEO should fire himself, since he is the responsible party for this
irreparable harm to CHina.

~~~
zrb05293
Or fire whoever stamped the paperwork for Mariott to become a corporation!

------
sandov
What a crappy website. Autoplay video and whenever I click on the text below
the image, the image comes up and covers what I was reading.

~~~
quadrangle
I visited it with a ton of blocking/privacy plugins including NoScript, it was
all broken site. I clicked Firefox's "reader" feature and read the article. It
was a clear, effective read.

------
onetimemanytime
_> >Roy sure didn’t mean to get fired from his $14-an-hour online customer
service job, a job the 49-year-old says was his best ever._

$14 an hour and a "Marriott customer care manager" ? Just wow.

------
darkerside
Something about this story seems off to me. I think it's the fact that the
employee was so insistent that he mistakenly liked the tweet, implying that he
never would have liked such a tweet on purpose. Seems far more likely he
thought it was innocuous and clicked it, which would be totally
understandable. The story comes off as a but disingenuous. Moreover, the lack
of comment from Marriott makes this a very one sided story.

Pure speculation, but I wonder if he was asked to apologize publicly and
refused?

------
Y_Y
If you suggested Nebraska was independent, nobody would flip out, because it's
nonsense. Unfortunately large industrial empires need space and resources and
so it's necessary to expand beyond what might be the "real" border of your
country. But who's to complain? Everyone likes the Dali Lama, but capitalism
doesn't allow you to choose karma over cash.

~~~
daxorid
Western China is a combination of agriculture, and completely barren, unused
land.

They have plenty, without Tibet and Taiwan.

There's another reason, here.

~~~
Y_Y
> Tibet has huge reserves of copper, lithium, gold and silver. Most of it has
> never been touched, because the Tibetans didn't mine the land: it's against
> their religious practices to disturb the ground. But China has begun mining
> on an enormous scale.

from [https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-24/new-book-documents-
ch...](https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-24/new-book-documents-china-s-
exploitation-tibet-s-natural-resources)

~~~
Declanomous
My understanding is that the bigger issue is that Tibet is bordered on the
West by a geographical barrier in the Himalayas, whereas the Eastern border
with China is relatively unprotected. Given the tensions between India and
China, it makes sense that China would want to exert influence over the
geographical region of Tibet.

------
paradite
Chinese citizen here. A few points that I want to make after reading some
comments:

1\. I would be personally offended if anyone or any organization lists Tibet
as a country.

2\. Lots of Chinese people would be offended too by this.

Reasons for 1 and 2:

\- It is a piece of wrong information

\- The wrong information directly contradicts what is considered basic
knowledge in China

\- That basic knowledge happens to be on the topic of sovereignty

\- Chinese people care a lot of sovereignty (see [https://github.com/matomo-
org/matomo/issues/6006](https://github.com/matomo-org/matomo/issues/6006))

Why do Chinese people care so much about sovereignty? Culture and history.

It is the same question as:

\- Why do Americans care so much about freedom of speech, democracy and race
equality?

\- Why do Japanese people care so much about respect and etiquette?

Now addressing the obvious issue, that some people support the idea of Tibet
becoming independent and they should be free to express their ideas. Yes, they
are free to say so, but there are two things to keep in mind:

\- Opinions are not facts, you can support whatever you want, but don't say it
as a fact like "Tibet is a country as of 24 March, 2018." That is not the
right thing to do.

\- If you choose to freely express your opinions or spread false information,
you will face consequences for them. For example, a PR firm would likely tell
you that expressing such opinions would results in negative brand image and
boycott in China. In addition, saying something like that in China would
result in more serious consequences. You might not like it, but that is beyond
your control and you should be aware of that.

~~~
sdrothrock
For an American perspective, I've thought about this a lot while talking to
Chinese friends, and I wonder if the closest thing to this in American culture
(while not being at all equivalent, just analogous) would be claiming that
Puerto Rico is the 51st state.

Factually, it is not.

Emotionally, some people may want it to be and may very well have valid
arguments for it.

People across the US and Puerto Rico would have strong opinions on either side
of the argument.

~~~
charlieflowers
Anecdotally, I'm an American and that statement would get barely a chuckle out
of me. I really wouldn't care and most people I know wouldn't either.

So I don't know if it's the best analogy.

