
The Human Antivenom Project - mstats
https://www.outsideonline.com/2395803/snakebite-antivenom-tim-friede
======
diggan
This guy has been doing it for 30 years now (injecting himself with snake
venom):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcbqB0pFRPA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcbqB0pFRPA)

And also a longer but older documentary-short about the same person:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q_m-
rDUNw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q_m-rDUNw0)

Apparently, the same guy (Steve Ludwin) actually has his own snake show on
VICE nowadays. You can see all videos about him (and ton of snakes) here:
[https://video.vice.com/en_uk/topic/steve-
ludwin](https://video.vice.com/en_uk/topic/steve-ludwin)

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itronitron
>> Glanville took his code and left his prestigious job at Pfizer. ... . He
now licenses his software and antibody library back to Pfizer...

How the hell did that happen?

~~~
RyanShook
Very confused about this as well. Maybe he brought the code with him to Pfizer
before starting?

~~~
gwern
Perhaps he negotiated hardball: "I am the only one who understands this code
or how to use it; you own the copyright, yes, but without me, it's useless,
and will bitrot within years. I am leaving, and if I don't have it, I will
simply rewrite it from scratch, and better, though it will take me a lot of
time I would rather not spend and risks failure. So you have a choice: you can
license it to me and we can share the results, or you can be a dog in the
manger and pay full price for my future work. Choose."

~~~
weinzierl
Possible, but the way these big corporations work it's more likely that just
nobody cared. Maybe he even wanted to improve his work within the organization
and pitched his ideas but no one wanted hear them, so he left and rewrote the
software from scratch for his own company.

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mynegation
This guy is literally a honey badger.

In the famous video that brought in the meme [1], honey badger experiences the
lethargic reaction to the several bites from a cobra it hunts but eventually
recovers. And this ability seems to be inborn, after thousands and maybe
millions years of natural selection. So there is definitely a precedent.

[1]
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg)

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emilfihlman
It's sad that we let "etchics" get in the way of research, especially in cases
like these. It's not ethics anymore, it's just fear of someone ruining your
career by touting "ethics" violations, not actual ethics issues.

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js2
If you’re of a certain age and grew up in Miami, you’re familiar with the now
defunct Miami Serpentarium and its director, Bill Haast. Haast lived to 100,
having been bitten over 172 times. He similarly donated his blood for medical
research and also tried to build immunity.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haast)

Pretty amazing story. I hope Tim Friede lives as long!

------
sitkack
This is a crazy story on so many levels, so much so that feels like fiction,
Glanville is basically Nikola Tesla of biotech.

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bjornsing
Cool story. AFAIK antibodies aren’t cells though, and you can’t “DNA sequence”
them.

~~~
robbiep
They get a bunch of the science wrong, but some of it right in that typical
popsci way.

For instance, it is possible to isolate the DNA sequence that codes for the
functional and variable domains of the antibody. But, it’s not possible to
just take that and ‘grow it in bacteria’ as they say.

The construction of an antibody is very complex, with lots of cross-coupling
and special confirmations that need to be induced by helper proteins in order
to reach the final shape.

A bacterial cell doesn’t have the requisite ‘machinery’ to use a factory
analogy, to do this.

When we make humanised antibodies for immunotherapy for cancer treatments we
fuze a B/Plasma cell with a cancer cell to make it immortal, and then hope
that the cell will churn out copies of itself and the antibody forever. That’s
one of the reasons pharma companies can charge $50,000 per dose... its time
consuming, it’s fragile... and also, once they’ve done it, no-one else can
come along and build the same thing (as you might be able to do by knocking
off some chemical steps to make a drug)

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bayesian_horse
For science!

But seriously. I don't know if I want to nominate the guy for a medal or put
him in jail. The incident with milking a cobra while drunk is criminally
reckless, not just to his own health, but also to whoever runs into the now
probably escaping snake next. He might have had proper precautions in place,
like snake-proof rooms (which is harder than it sounds), but somehow I doubt
it....

~~~
dreamcompiler
Keeping hot snakes in your home is definitely not a good idea. You _will_ get
bitten eventually, and you'd better keep your own supply of antivenin since
there's not much cobra antivenin in the US.

On the plus side, an escaped cobra probably won't live long in the wilds of
Wisconsin. No other cobras to mate with, different food supply, and it's too
cold.

~~~
bayesian_horse
Keeping antivenom on hand isn't that common for keepers. Antivenom production
is limited, so is its shelf life, it makes more sense to keep it at
centralized locations. In any case, doctors prefer not to give antivenom,
because it can be worse than the bite itself.

Even tropical snakes can stay alive in a home, or a settlement. I wouldn't
expect them to breed, except of course in Florida where apparently all kinds
of reptiles can become pests.

~~~
dreamcompiler
I would expect it to be uncommon for keepers of pit vipers and corals in the
US to stock antivenom, but I'd expect it to be common for keepers of non-
native snakes because US hospitals don't stock non-native antivenoms. You'd
typically have to obtain it from a zoo that keeps exotic snakes.

Antivenom is never "worse than the bite itself." It can occasionally cause an
anaphylactic reaction which is easily manageable in a hospital setting by
administration of epinephrine. The reasons doctors hold back on antivenom is
that a significant fraction of people come in to the ER thinking they've been
bitten by a venomous snake when they haven't, or they've received a dry bite
from a venomous snake. Antivenom is never administered until venom symptoms
are evident because it's quite expensive and there's no reason to risk a
(manageable) anaphylactic reaction if it's not necessary.

Withholding snake* antivenom once symptoms are evident would often be a death
sentence, and always medical malpractice.

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/antivenom](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/antivenom)

*Edit: Added the word "snake" because black widow antivenom exists but BW bites are not usually life-threatening in adults. Most people can pull through without it. This is much more risky with venomous snakes.

~~~
bayesian_horse
A zoo would be a centralized source. Depending on the country, there are
central hotlines to help doctors know what they need and where they can get
it.

An anaphylactic reaction on top of a snake bite can be worse than just a snake
bite, but of course it depends on the circumstances and species. Also the
immune reactions from the antivenom may clot the kidneys, which are probably
already a concern if the patient is in shock. And yes, all of this is
manageable. Immunology can be really weird and complicated...

------
psudmant
"Antivenom" is not a word. This article is mistakenly using this word to refer
to antivenin.

~~~
reallydude
It's a word that people use. Despite assertions that there are definitive word
lists for languages, all words are made up over time.

[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antivenom](https://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/antivenom)

[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/antivenom](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/antivenom)

You are free to pursue this futile fight.

