
Show HN: Calcflow, an open-source complex maths visualization tool in VR - ottomanbob
https://github.com/matryx/calcflow
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pault
Lately I've been wanting a VR tool that does interactive 3D projections of 4D
geometry. It's already so counterintuitive, I'm curious if the additional
information available when projecting to 3D rather than 2D would allow better
intuition for 4D transforms, volume-as-surface, etc. For some reason 4D
geometry has always been an annoying obsession for me, like an itch that I
can't scratch.

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Impossible
Have you seen 4D toys
([http://store.steampowered.com/app/619210/4D_Toys/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/619210/4D_Toys/))?
Its definitely a toy and not a serious visualization tool, but it still might
help you build some intuition about 4D space.

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Libbum
From the readme it looks like the visualisation is off to the side in a self
contained box. What I'd really want to do is have walk/fly through capability
to visualise projections of higher dimensional data. Is this possible with
your tool?

Second question: how many data points can a visualisation be before you start
to see noticeable lag?

~~~
nerdponx
Hopefully this isn't the start of a trend where programs are made "VR-first"
and the people who don't want freaky goggles on get left behind.

~~~
Libbum
I partially disagree. Whilst I don't have VR goggles myself, and agree with
you in that so far, I haven't seen a reason for the purchase at all. A tool
like this for visualisations though, is a use case that I see as possibly
beneficial.

With that being said, it has to be done right. Not only that, I'd expect to be
'VR-only', not even just 'VR-first'. A visualisation tool that I'm expecting
would have difficulty conveying the same data on a flat screen. Sure, one
could argue that you're still only looking into flat screens in the goggles,
but the multiple axes of movement allowed by both the head translations as
well as hand movements give you superior control vs just mouse input.

~~~
voi_perkele
> Sure, one could argue that you're still only looking into flat screens in
> the goggles, but the multiple axes of movement allowed by both the head
> translations as well as hand movements give you superior control vs just
> mouse input.

If you're looking at two screens with identical images, then that might be a
valid argument, but VR headsets provide stereoscopic viewing by presenting
different images of the virtual scene from each eye's viewpoint-- this is
known as binocular disparity. It's the same principle used in 3D TVs and
anything that requires you to wear special glasses.

The "head translations" you're talking about gives the visual system depth
cues via motion parallax, where objects in the foreground appear to move
faster than those in the background when the head is moved from side-to-side.

These two things together (stereoscopy and motion parallax) yield a very
strong sense of "3D depth", called stereopsis. Having controllers with six
degrees of freedom (6DOF: translation along and rotation about the x-, y-, and
z-axes) to manipulate and interact with 3D data should be superior, as it is
no longer necessary to map 2D mouse inputs to 3D operations which would also
decrease cognitive load, in theory.

~~~
Libbum
Thanks! This is what I was trying to get at, and provides a much better
argument for VR-only and VR-first tools.

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sus_007
IMO, an AR implementation of visualization would be more interactive than a
VR. Overall, great job.

~~~
haydenlee
How would AR make this more interactive? I haven't seen one AR device with an
interaction model as good as VR. I also don't know why you'd want to set the
real world while visualizing data. Maybe so you could interact with it with
other people IRL that are also wearing AR headsets?

~~~
ottomanbob
Calcflow team member here. We are working on something very special involving
AR :) Should be released in coming weeks. We think EDU users may benefit
greatly from AR collaboration.

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thenomad
Very neat tool indeed!

Is there a binary I can download and run? I don't know what version of Unity
you used so I don't really want to compile myself if I can avoid it :)

EDIT - Answered my own question, it's available from here:
[http://calcflow.io/](http://calcflow.io/)

I'd suggest you put this on Steam, folks - chances are you'd make your $100
Steam Direct fee back fairly quickly.

~~~
stevenano
Calcflow is available on STEAM
[http://store.steampowered.com/app/547280/Calcflow/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/547280/Calcflow/)

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tlarkworthy
Wow what a great idea, if you could interact with jupyter in tandem it might
actually lead to more powerful data exploration.

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zubairq
As someone building an open source data tool using VR tools I like it that
people like CalcFlow are experimenting with this. this is my project:
[https://github.com/zubairq/gosharedata](https://github.com/zubairq/gosharedata)

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kokwak
FANTASTIC! Wish I could have accessed to something like this in my
undergraduate journey

~~~
tw1010
I agree that the project is cool. But I just want to give the answer that
always aught to be given whenever someone on HN says "I wish we had X when I
was learning this stuff", where X usually is some visual way of illustrating a
concept. And that is simply that there really isn't any good substitute to
learning mathematics to simply doing a bunch of problems with good old dry
symbols. Visualizations are great, and they can aid intuition. But that is not
the be all and end all. Struggle and doing a large number of problems really
is necessary in order to internalize this stuff to such a degree that you
maintain a deep understanding ten years after you were first exposed to it.

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imranq
This is a great idea - it's like the medical demos they use ar/vr for but for
engineers.

Someone should make a VR version for mechanical motions like that How to Make
a Car course that was posted here a while ago

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carapace
The thing I most want from a system like this is low-latency update.

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lux
Impressive to see that this was built in Unity!

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azinman2
Sorry for the skepticism, but what’s the advantage of this being in VR? Seems
like a 3D visualization that I can see on a monitor / iPhone just as well?

~~~
moron4hire
No, not "just as well". It's a very well known problem that 2D displays create
ambiguity in 3D visualizations.

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j_s
What purpose does the custom license serve? Of all the hills to die on for a
project with source available on Github...

> _This project is licensed under the NANOME VR PRODUCT SUITE_

[https://github.com/matryx/calcflow/blob/master/LICENSE.md](https://github.com/matryx/calcflow/blob/master/LICENSE.md)

\--

Digging a bit, it appears this is funded by an ICO, or at least created by a
company currently running an ICO? Too bad that basically short-circuits to
"smells fishy" to me right now; hopefully they can pull through and build a
track record of credibility.

~~~
ottomanbob
Nanome Team member here. Can't blame you for the skepticism, the blockchain
space is full of nonsense these days. We are, in fact, running a token sale
for our decentralized R&D platform, Matryx. Calcflow will be one of the first
dApps to integrate Matryx. By open sourcing calcflow, we hope to establish our
commitment to open-access STEM and build said "track record."

[https://matryx.ai](https://matryx.ai)

~~~
j_s
Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Do you know why the project is released under a custom license, rather than
something familiar? If this could be summarized in a few simple sentences I'd
appreciate it. Ain't nobody got time to read all that legalese.

For example: is the purpose of the license to prevent commercial re-use? In
other words: what does this custom license accomplish that no normal OSI-
approved license could?

~~~
ottomanbob
The primary function is to prevent commercial reuse. We work with a lot of
institutional and enterprise clients and it's a bit complicated to protect
their purchase of our software while allowing others to modify the source +
grant them free personal use.

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AlexDanger
This _requires_ a VR headset? No mouse controls?

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kowdermeister
It's a VR project, shocking.

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AlexDanger
Just wondering if it will or will not work with a mouse and a monitor. The
application is still very relavent without VR.

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ottomanbob
Not yet, but we agree. Would sure beat everything else that's out there.

~~~
zubairq
I just posted on the main thread, but you can make your project work with
mouse and keyboard as well as VR, as I have done with my project here:
[https://github.com/zubairq/gosharedata](https://github.com/zubairq/gosharedata)

