
City workers destroy 'Holy Grail' for earthquake scientists - grey-area
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-earthquake-curb-destroyed-20160705-snap-htmlstory.html
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mikestew
Did I miss the part where seismologists told the city, "hey, if you ever want
to 'fix' this part, could you let us know first so we can discuss options?"
Because, though I didn't read every word in the article, it sounds to me like
the scientists woke up one day to a fixed curb and then complained because the
city didn't just osmotically know this "common knowledge".

As to the city getting around to fixing something that was known to be broken
in the 70s, well, that kind of snark just writes itself.

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donretag
How would the city even keep track of such one-off requests? There is no
database for such minute details. It would need to be generic enough to
fulfill any request, but also queryable to find specific information.

Geologists have been keep track of the curb for 45 years now. City
administrations and officials come and go. Surely previous officials must have
known about the significance, but that "knowledge" was not passed onto the
next set of administrators.

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aab0
Probably the best way would be making it self-documenting: installing some
sort of plaque or stand describing it and why it is scientifically
interesting. Then any work crews sent out to destroy it can see the plaque and
exercise some discretion in sending it up channels to ask.

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ericcumbee
Once upon a time my father discovered that the right of way along the road
beside our property had several species of somewhat rare semi-protected
carnivores plants growing in it. My dad contacted the county about it, they
made a note of it, The mowing crew mowed over it the next day. He replanted
the area with plants and seeds from his own collection, and the county put up
"Do Not Mow, protected plant sanctuary" signs in the middle of the right of
way. The mowing crew's solution...take down the signs so they could mow, and
then put them back up when they were done.

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ChuckMcM
I think "destroyed" is going to far, they "reset" the measurement. Just
because the curb is realigned does not mean it won't pull apart still. Now
that it is "fixed" it would be a good time to install a pair of steel
reference standards on the two curbs, then measuring the shift would be easier
in the future.

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slg
This is an interesting topic, but the article isn't particularly good or
informative. It doesn't do anything to explain the actual scientific
importance of this, if there is even one, or if this was just a notable relic
showing the real world results of known geological processes. The term "Holy
Grail" also doesn't seem to apply to this at all. That term is usually
reserved for something that is almost impossible to find, but would be
incredibly valuable if it was discovered.

~~~
jofer
As a geologist, there's no scientific importance to that specific curb at all.
It is a really frequent field trip stop, though.

A lot of people go there when they lead field trips (I have too), and it winds
up in a lot of photos. Mostly, it's a convenient photo-op in an easily
accessible area. It's certainly not the only offset curb, but it arguably
makes the nicest photo.

There are a lot of vineyards in the area that give much more impressive
examples of active tectonics, i.m.o. - It's more clear that there's a gradient
of deformation.

All this having been said, though, there is very frequently a lot of tension
between the local department of transportation and geologists. There are a
_ton_ of very significant geologic localities that have been destroyed to
widen roads despite geologists begging the DOT find another way. Of course,
many of these localities are roadcuts in the first place, so it's a bit hard
to convince people of their significance.

Also, in case anyone's wondering why the "fault" looks like the boundary
between to slabs of concrete: The actual surface trace of the fault isn't
exactly at the boundary of the two slabs. It's just that one slab is mostly on
one side, and the other slab is mostly on the other side. The slabs are rigid,
so instead of breaking, they slide past each other.

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aaroninsf
John McPhee's Pulitzer-winning _The Annals of the Former World_ is arguably
1000 (wonderful) pages made _possible_ by road cuts... something he gleefully
expounds upon.

Geologists don't get budgets to do section hills to check out their innards.

Strangely, federal highway builders do... and do.

Presto! Tons of fresh data just waiting for you to pull over and check it
out...

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jofer
That is absolutely true.

I have a friend that refers to the local highway dept as "the department of
outcrop construction".

That's also why you should never be in a car with a geologist at the wheel...
We spend far too much time looking at the rocks and far too little looking at
the road.

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astrodust
This very phenomenon is why doing GIS work is infuriatingly difficult. A GPS
gives coordinates relative to a constellation of satellites, but given how a
large chunk of California is drifting a measurable distance, using absolute
coordinates would mean all your data on the location of buildings, property
lines, and underground infrastructure is increasingly inaccurate.

The real world is a complicated, ugly place.

~~~
andyjdavis
Curious how you could solve that. I guess you would need to time stamp the
coordinates. Then if you had data on how each region has moved you could
calculate new coordinates over time. Sounds painful.

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astrodust
There's many, many frames of reference you can use to map your GPS data into
actual on-ground coordinates. There's a number of systems that do this, but
usually it's done with a projection from abstract GPS points into real-world
positions via something like this:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System)

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niccaluim
"…the eastern half of the curb got pulled north, while the other side got
pulled south."

Is that right? The picture seems to show the opposite, and I thought the
Pacific Plate was sliding north, relative to the American Plate.

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morgante
How can you tell which side is north?

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niccaluim
You can't, but it doesn't matter. They state that the curb runs perpendicular
to the fault. No matter which way you rotate it, the "east" side is being
pulled south.

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6stringmerc
Tallest: "You made the fires worse!"

Zim: "Worse...or better?"

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ajmurmann
This reminds me of the cleaning person who cleaned up a modern art piece that
was all about the stains: [http://m.dw.com/en/cleaning-lady-destroys-
contemporary-sculp...](http://m.dw.com/en/cleaning-lady-destroys-contemporary-
sculpture-with-her-scrubbing/a-15510231)

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brianvan5155
"City Workers Repair Earthquake Fault"

give em a bonus this year

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GavinMcG
They couldn't bother to call up a freelance photographer in Hayward and get a
snapshot of the repaired curb!

(Or even post something on Twitter like "Hayward readers – we need a quick
favor! DM if you have a camera and half an hour. Credit given.")

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takeda
I just googled it, and looks like it is work in progress and probably that's
why they did not show the picture.

Anyway, here it is:
[https://oaklandgeology.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/rosepros-...](https://oaklandgeology.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/rosepros-
jun2016.jpg)

And article from where it comes from:
[https://oaklandgeology.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/loss-of-
an-i...](https://oaklandgeology.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/loss-of-an-icon-the-
hayward-faults-roseprospect-curb/)

~~~
joveian
Much nicer article, thanks. Maybe the link and title could be changed to that?
Even as clickbait titles go, "Holy Grail" is quite bad.

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abecedarius
Has anyone tried to make a timelapse video out of these photos over the
decades? Much more interesting than a pic of it fixed. (I didn't find anything
out of a quick search.)

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DougBTX
Try this:
[http://www.geologyfieldtrips.com/haywardresidential.htm](http://www.geologyfieldtrips.com/haywardresidential.htm)

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moptar
It's a pity that with so many people photographing it for so long, nobody
stopped to think of making a well-aligned higher resolution time lapse.

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fitzroy
Don't blame the city workers; it's not their fault.

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mjard
I'd really like to see a statue somewhere (not in the road) that'd show these
changes over time.

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astrodust
Probably a few feet to the left wether they like it or not.

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yuhong
Thinking about it, I wonder where startups are likely to relocate if the big
earthquake happens.

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macintux
5 feet west and 20 feet down.

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anotheryou
At least it's just something sentimental, not some super important measuring-
point :)

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virtuexru
Show us a damn picture of it fixed! /OCD-Rage

