
It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too - majikarp
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bjsoeh/it_is_perfectly_ok_to_only_code_at_work_you_can/
======
jasode
_> It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too_

That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is _hiding
the true debate_ that motivates it.

The real discussion before that quote is this:

Some employers _prefer_ programmers that like programming outside of work. For
the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a
week, they feel that employer preference is _unfair_.

So yes, of course it's fine to want to do non-coding activities outside of
work... _but that 's not what the real frustration is about_.

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to prevent some employers for
preferring coders who code outside of work. It's been that way for decades. On
the other hand, some employers don't care about personal coding projects so
that culture may be a better fit.

~~~
Waterluvian
Gonna bet that for whatever reasons they do it, people who code on their own
time are on average better coders and will on average have an easier time
gettinv employment. Isn't this true for any skill (except maybe neurosurgery)?

~~~
ghaff
>Isn't this true for any skill

I'm not sure why it would hold that, if you do something for 40 hours a week,
you'll necessarily improve if you do it for an even greater amount of time.
And, besides, effectiveness as a developer is not _just_ about coding anyway.
A lot more goes into creating products and services than lines of code.

~~~
jpd-
The underlying assumption is that when you code outside of work, you're
working on things that are different from what you do at work.

------
salex89
I really wanted to code my own side projects in my spare time. I always have
so much ideas that I become anxious when will I have time for them all.

But during my spare time, which I would like to designate to my own projects,
life kicks in. Something breaks, an old friend is back in town, I don't feel
well, there is a recipe I want to try or my girlfriend and I want to have a
day outdoors because we didn't have enough quality time together during the
week. Then Sunday evening comes and I become sad because I'm far behind my own
plans.

But the most important thing I was missing is thet I actually enjoy stuff
beyond coding. I was so concentrated on it that I stopped being thankful for
all of the detours that make my life complete and meaningful. Tonight I'm
going to change the mixer tap at my folks home, and I'm glad I'll make them
happy and life a bit more comfortable. My buddy is back, so latter were going
out for drinks, we're gonna have a ball. And I actually love those things,
it's refreshing. Yes I would like to brush up on some fresher skills or try
out the latest AWS Blazefeather. And I will eventually. But I realized that
other stuff in life makes me also a calm and enjoyable person, and personality
and temper is also a part of an engineers value.

~~~
onemoresoop
If I were an employer I’d like to see a healthy life outside of work on a
prospective hire. Mental health is a great factor in work productivity too

------
sokoloff
Contains predictable reddit comments of never working a millisecond of unpaid
time.

That’s certainly a choice; there’s nothing wrong with it.

OTOH, if you enjoy coding (as I do), there’s also nothing wrong with coding at
home or doing the occasional extra work from home (and conversely, dicking off
in the office now and then when there’s an opportunity).

Many find that being flexible like this yields a better outcome for all
parties.

~~~
carlosrg
Yes, I think the key point is to know yourself, do what you truly like at
leisure time, and never put yourself on pressure outside of work (for example,
thinking not coding at home will make you a worse programmer, or that you're
missing something). Sometimes I've not touched a line of code at home for
months because I was focusing on other hobbies, like reading, that I had
abandoned. No regrets. Lately I've gone back to think about possible personal
projects I could do. Being flexible with yourself is important.

~~~
Insanity
This is key! It echoes my comment elsewhere in the thread quite well. Being
flexible is important. You'll just end up depressing yourself if you'll force
yourself to write code in your free time even when you don't want to. (Been
there, done that).

~~~
t34543
If I’ve got the work scratch on my own time I turn to learning. It can benefit
me long term, and perhaps score me some cred at work in the short term.

------
Insanity
It fluctuates for me, which I think is normal. I enjoy programming a lot - it
was a hobby before a profession. I enjoy learning programming languages and
puzzling things out.

But sometimes I don't want to code at home - I have other hobbies, a wife,
friends, .. that I'd rather do something with. But I do find that after a
certain time I'll miss programming for fun.

It used to bother me when I lost motivation to work on side-projects or to
learn new things. But after losing and regaining the motivation often enough,
I now figure it's just a cyclical thing. I might be on a day out with my wife
and suddenly think of something I want to learn and continue spending several
weeks learning or building it. Only to find myself without a project again for
several weeks and enjoying going to the movies, gaming, citytrips...

The only thing which I do believe is that if you have absolutely no interest
in learning new things - in your own time or in paid time - it's going to be
hard to keep up with the evolving industry. But I could be wrong, we still
have the cobol cowboys... :)

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amthewiz
The field of software engineering changes rapidly and is complex to master. To
remain good at the job, one must continue to explore and learn. The only way
that is going to happen is if you are genuinely interested in the field. The
best indicator of that is that you have pet projects outside of work.

------
megablast
I don't get this. It is like being an accomplished painter, but never painting
anything for yourself. Or a carpenter, and not making your own table or
chairs.

As a coder, you have the ability to create almost anything. How can that
knowledge not tempt you to create something yourself?

~~~
Rerarom
Programming is not by itself an art, so it doesn't fulfill people's self-
expression needs (although it may contain bits of art like e.g. video games).

You cannot create "almost anything" with coding, it's not like I can bake
fries by typing some code.

I do not write this in jest, I just find that people tend to overestimate
coding.

~~~
prepend
I think coding is different things to different people. So sometimes it’s hard
to sync up and have a useful conversation.

I believe you can create anything with coding. You can automate home routines.
You can figure how the best dose of vitamins and supplements. You can optimize
finances. It’s pretty limitless. Not to mention staring at a screen, giving it
commands and seeing the result for hours just being fun. In both a meditative
way and a discovering secrets way.

But for many people, it’s a job and not interesting in and of itself.

Someone mentioned painting and there are painters who make art and do it for
expression. And there are painters who paint houses. They are both fine
professions and really just a choice or an orientation. I don’t do either, but
I think the artist painter will do lots of side projects outside her studio
while the house painter is less likely to paint too many houses pro bono.

This doesn’t mean programmers who code outside of work are superior humans. I
think any company who has this as a binary hiring decision is missing out that
there are great programmers who don’t do it out of passion. I once worked with
a programmer who didn’t own a computer (in 2005) and he was good. And there
are hobby programmers who suck at work even though they have lots of personal
projects.

~~~
arvinsim
> I believe you can create anything with coding. You can automate home
> routines. You can figure how the best dose of vitamins and supplements. You
> can optimize finances. It’s pretty limitless. Not to mention staring at a
> screen, giving it commands and seeing the result for hours just being fun.
> In both a meditative way and a discovering secrets way.

> But for many people, it’s a job and not interesting in and of itself.

I am one of those people who want to only code at work. I also enjoy
programming a lot.

My problem with "coding for fun" for me is that anything interesting that I
want to build gets tedious after the initial, easy and fun parts are
implemented. I end up trying to fix edge cases and debug hard to fix bugs.

At that point it feels like a chore to do.

> This doesn’t mean programmers who code outside of work are superior humans.
> I think any company who has this as a binary hiring decision is missing out
> that there are great programmers who don’t do it out of passion. I once
> worked with a programmer who didn’t own a computer (in 2005) and he was
> good. And there are hobby programmers who suck at work even though they have
> lots of personal projects.

Exactly. People who want to do something else don't go around demeaning people
who code in their free time. But the opposite does happen.

------
Waterluvian
When I don't do any coding over the weekend, my coding tasks on Monday are far
more fun. Which is difficult because I love messing around with my own little
programs and games.

~~~
ehnto
That was my issue. I do love what I do, but I was doing it so much at work
that I didn't have energy for my passion projects. When I was trying to do
both, I loved neither. So I had to rebalance things to reach a happier median.

------
slfnflctd
There are people who used to write code at home for their own personal
projects and really enjoyed it, but have become too busy, tired, disillusioned
or whatever else to keep it going these days. There are also people who never
could think of anything they wanted to build, but nonetheless liked coding for
school better than doing a lot of other things, and got good at it.

If I was interviewing a person who told me they have never created anything
that wasn't for school or a paycheck, it would definitely bother me-- but I
would still do my best to look objectively at the quality of their work. After
all, there are many skilled electricians and plumbers who don't use their
skills in their own homes unless they have an annoying problem they can fix
easily.

------
peteretep
If you’re not sufficiently excited about programming that you want to spend
your free time doing it, that’s fine. But don’t expect technical employers to
be all that excited by you.

~~~
Viliam1234
Yeah, if you have a family, you are probably not sufficiently dedicated to
your job anyway. And if you only have a girlfriend, if she truly loves you,
she will certainly understand that you don't want to waste your precious free
time with her. It's all about priorities.

------
djhworld
I guess coding outside of work does allow you to explore things that you might
not get a chance to in the day job, which in turn might help with interview
situations.

------
grumpy8
tech is moving so fast, if you're not learning in your spare time, you'll
quickly fall behind. That doesn't mean that you won't be able to find a job
though

~~~
ryandrake
This is a commonly held belief but I don’t think it’s true. There is a lot of
surface-level technical turnover in software. A lot of “new framework-of-the-
month” churn. A lot of project management/methodology fads: Agile and Pair
Programming and Test-driven development. The tooling changes slightly every so
often. But the fundamental principles and techniques of good software
engineering have not changed in decades.

Take a good productive software developer 30 years ago, and time travel
him/her here today and they will be productive with very little ramp-up. A bad
software developer from 30 years ago will be bad today too.

Learning for its own sake is great, but don’t actively try to create and get
on an unnecessary treadmill.

