
Ravens parallel great apes in flexible planning for tool-use, bartering (2017) - jelliclesfarm
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6347/202.full
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mannykannot
I imagine that, in these experiments where the subject is offered a choice,
one must take care that the experimenter does not subconsciously signal the
'smart' option, such as by the counter-party in a bartering exchange being
unaware of the problem that the subject is being tested with, and by avoiding
having decoy objects that are more similar to each other than they are to the
tool.

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madhadron
Yes. This has been standard practice in animal experiments for many decades.

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ordu
The most fascinating thing that birds have no six layered neocortex like
mammals do. So birds do all the processing by other brain structures like
allocortex and/or basal ganglia. It means that they could have a really
different kind of intelligence.

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stirfrykitty
Some ornithologists believe that raven and crows surpass even dolphins and
apes in intelligence. While I agree that dolphins and apes are intelligent,
from my own observations, I would agree with that bird expert. I've seen
ravens and crows do some really amazing things. Scientists think apes, for
example, are about as intelligent as toddlers. Ravens are something else
entirely. Birds can see the earth's magnetic field and take advantage of it
for navigation. Ravens can make tools, toys, and solve more complex problems
than apes. All corvids can accurately judge weights by sight, and all of them
can remember faces for years. This is why farmers who shoot crows find their
house, barn, and family animals harassed from then on. Corvids harbor grudges
that other animals do not. And apparently the grudge and memories are passed
down to offspring.

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jelliclesfarm
They also teach their young if someone hurts them. In some parts of the world,
a way to keep birds away from orchards is to kill a crow and hang it for the
others to see..such a human thing to do. It always reminds me of how they hung
Il Duce at the end of WW II and how undignified it was to do that a crow..a
creature that is far superior in intelligence.

I have always imagined that we have alien intelligence amongst us..two off the
top of my head..octopus and mycelium. I have waffled about corvids..is it
learned intelligence or is it innate animal/avian intelligence? Which usually
makes me wonder about ‘intelligence’. What is the true definition of
intelligence? Etc.

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stirfrykitty
Knowledge itself is really not much unless it's applied. Corvids apply their
knowledge/intelligence. I'm sure some is innate and some is learned. My
children do the same. My youngest son was brainy from day one. There is
nothing he cannot solve given the time. My older son is very intelligent as
well, but his mind is different. He's more physical in nature and lends his
mind to physical pursuits like how to drive a ball farther, stance, wrestling
moves, etc. They learn and apply knowledge differently.

I'm sure there are corvids for whom cracking nuts themselves is great
fun/skill shown, whereas there are some who will use a passing car tire to do
the work for them. Some people enjoy working on their own cars while others
see it as useless and infuriating. Both types can do the work, one sees it
better as simply paying for it. I appeal to Robert Heinlein here.
Specialization is for insects. People should be able to do many things well.
It just makes you stronger.

I remember once in the Corps when we were deploying. A young Marine was laying
out all of his gear for inspection, required and permissible personal stuff he
believed would aid him. The Gunny walked over and said, "Dude, you are going
to kill yourself humping all of this extra crap. You don't need any of it. The
more you know, the less you have to carry."

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Tepix
There is also an older study from February with similar results:

Romana Gruber, Martina Schiestl, Markus Boeckle, Anna Frohnwieser, Rachael
Miller: _New Caledonian Crows Use Mental Representations to Solve Metatool
Problems_. In: Current Biology. February 2019, doi:10.1016/j.cub.2019.01.008

One of its highlights:

\- _Crows can preplan three behaviors into the future while using tools_

Evolution is fascinating. I wonder if there's another possible outcome where
these intelligent birds evolve into a species that is capable of using
technology like we are today. Perhaps after mankind wipes itself out?

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wil421
You need hands and thumbs to manipulate the environment. Or maybe it would
work if you’re an octopus but I don’t think they live long enough. Birds would
need to give up flight and have stronger bones.

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madhadron
Zygodactyl birds like parrots do quite well with a claw and their beak, both
of which are opposable. Ravens and crows mostly just use their beak, which
also works quite well based on watching them out my window.

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Ancalagon
Its pretty great that so many branches of life, at least currently, seem to be
developing intelligence (mammals, birds, octopus, even some fish). I'd really
be curious to know how intelligent multi-cellular species from the past were.
In my mind this suggests that there is some serious selection pressure for
intelligence in evolution, at least here on Earth. If pressures were similar
on other planets, mammalian-level intelligence might be fairly common among
multi-cellular life on other worlds.

