
The Sugary Secret of Self-Control - gruseom
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/books/review/willpower-by-roy-f-baumeister-and-john-tierney-book-review.html
======
rkalla
A really excellent followup to the study that was linked to around here about
6 months ago that found out "willpower" is an exhaustible resource that needs
to be managed throughout your day.

The book[1] this article is reviewing discusses learning to exercise your will
power through little mini tasks throughout the day (sit up straight, don't
curse, don't eat the whole cake, pickup your desk before going to lunch, etc.)
as a means of strengthening that skill.

In their studies they found that employing little tasks like that actually
made the willpower muscle (let's call it) stronger, leading to more control
over your day.

As to "why do I care?" both studies show that people with more willpower
generally end up happier with their lives.

This article does make an interesting point that people with _ultimate_
willpower are not markedly happier than people with nominal amounts of it, so
you don't necessarily need to train your willpower muscle to the point of
entering the willpower olympics, just slightly stronger than you have now
(assuming it is weakened) to enjoy a happier life.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Rediscovering-Greatest-
Human...](http://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Rediscovering-Greatest-Human-
Strength/dp/1594203075/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315079356&sr=8-1)

~~~
mechnik
Recent findings by Carol Dweck and others challenge the prevalent notion that
willpower is an exhaustible AND finite resource. She found that the subjects
who believed that exercising one's willpower strengthens it rather than
depletes it actually increased their willpower. One's mindset was the key.
[http://www.stanford.edu/~gwalton/home/In_the_News_files/Job,...](http://www.stanford.edu/~gwalton/home/In_the_News_files/Job,%20Dweck,%20%26%20Walton,%202010.pdf)

~~~
tokenadult
Thanks for the links. I'm always interested to hear about Dweck's latest
research.

From the submitted article, this passage is food for thought: "The disasters
reveal a limitation of the muscle metaphor: certain evolutionarily prepared
drives seem to withstand even the most bulked-up powers of will. The authors
note that people with the highest levels of self-control are only slightly
better than average at controlling their weight, and they describe disturbing
experiments that confirm the old saying 'When the penis stands up, the brains
get buried' (it sounds better in Yiddish)."

It would be interesting to test, by methodologies proposed by Dweck or by
others, just how far willpower can go in controlling the most biologically
driven behaviors. There are, of course, some problems with the ethics of human
experimentation involved in setting up some of these experiments in rigorous
fashion.

~~~
zcid
I think that the problem is that we are looking at "willpower" as a general
skill when we should see it as more specific to the task. I have built up
quite a bit of resistance to certain desires like food and television, but I
still flounder when it comes to other areas of my life.

I would be very interested in long-term studies that attempt to build
willpower in just one area and then examine the individual's ability to apply
that self-control to another, separate task.

~~~
mechnik
According to the OP (Pinker's book review) "He enrolled students in regimens
that required them to keep track of their eating, exercise regularly, use a
mouse with their weaker hand or (one that really gave them a workout) speak in
complete sentences and without swearing. After several weeks, the students
were more resistant to ego depletion in the lab and showed greater self-
control in their lives. They smoked, drank and snacked less, watched less
television, studied more and washed more dishes."

------
sliverstorm
As far as food & overeating/unhealthy foods- I've learned you don't
necessarily need self-control. You can stop caring instead. That's how I wound
up after going hungry for months, and got used to it.

It's frighteningly effective. Right now, the last meal I remember was about 20
hours ago, and the last meal before that was another 20-24 ago. My stomach is
aching, but it doesn't bother me.

Of course, this is not without problems. It basically means I have to
consciously remember to feed myself enough to stay healthy. You could say I am
now approaching the problem from the opposite direction.

~~~
dualogy
Starving for hours and ignoring your body's warning signals? Whatever happened
to "don't eat less, eat better" -- "don't reduce quantity, increase quality"?

If you enjoy eating and don't enjoy the sounds made by a hungry stomach... you
can munch down as many of those fresh veggies as you like and will feel all
the better for it, while not gaining a pound. Something to consider. Not the
same for fruits as they do contain sugars... but veggies, the sky is the
limit!

~~~
sliverstorm
I'm not saying it's the right way to do things. I don't think that starving
myself is GOOD. A hungry stomach _just doesn't bother me anymore_ , so I have
to proactively think about food. That may seem nonsensical to you if you are
still deeply in touch with your sense of hunger, but take me at my word.

I didn't choose for it to be this way, I just didn't have much money for a
while.

~~~
olliesaunders
You didn’t have enough money to eat? That must have been tough. I hope things
are better for you now.

~~~
sliverstorm
At least, not enough to eat properly. It's ok though- that was years ago, and
I learned a lot from those times.

------
CMartucci
Willpower is not a resource, and glucose is not willpower fuel. See the
following links:

[http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/08/willpower-is-not-a-
res...](http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/08/willpower-is-not-a-resource/)
[http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/08/glucose-is-not-
willpow...](http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/08/glucose-is-not-willpower-
fuel/) [http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/09/willpower-meets-the-
co...](http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/09/willpower-meets-the-
computational-theory-of-mind/) [http://whatblag.com/2011/08/04/poverty-and-
willpower-as-reso...](http://whatblag.com/2011/08/04/poverty-and-willpower-as-
resource/)

~~~
csomar
This is interesting. Offer someone -untrained- $1million to not to connect for
30 days and they'll (most of them) do it. A trained person may fail to do that
without the incentive.

Now offer an untrained person to lift 100 Kg with the same incentive. They'll
fail whatever the cash is. A trained person with the right physic power will
do it. No incentives required.

Conclusion: will power is not a muscle. Will Power is already strong, at its
max. It's not about improving it, it's about creating incentives for it to
perform. It's putting yourself in the right environment and making a strong
plan.

------
RobertHubert
From my experience or learning rather while studying psych I came to believe
that as all successful or enjoyable actions are rewarded by dopamine
(everything from grasping a spoon so smoking crack). Also, the more closely an
action and its reward are pared to one-another in time the greater the
strength of the feeling of "that was a good choice or Success!". So it seems
to follow that giving in sooner rather than later (for some potentially
greater reward - delayed gratification) rewards the brain more and does so
faster thus reinforcing that behavior model more and more successfully over
and over.

Because delayed gratification is well, delayed, the chemical reinforcements in
the brain don't happen (or happen in some other way that is more conscious
rather than instantaneous without reflection). So for a child who has not
developed the ability to delay gratification it becomes now or never and that
mental reward structure can really hurt them later in life. Thanks for
posting.

~~~
sliverstorm
It's always funny and somewhat humbling to remember that children have to
_develop_ the ability to delay gratification.

------
wpietri
Ooh, that's appealing. One of the authors, Roy Baumeister, gave this very
interesting address on how cultures use genders differently:
<http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm>

------
blahedo
> _(though not an indistinguishable beverage containing diet sweetener)_

Really? Indistinguishable? This presumably doesn't invalidate their results,
but a lot of people can distinguish the taste very well. This just seems like
sloppiness on their part.

~~~
sjwright
Sloppy perhaps, but the point is still conveyed adequately. A diet beverage
might not taste identical (Coca Cola Company acknowledges this, and in fact
their diet products have a different flavour profile designed to better match
the artificial sweeteners) but they certainly can be an _adequate substitute_
when it comes to satisfying your brain's sugar cravings.

------
dlytle
I've been wondering if there's a good way to test this on a personal basis
using something like compounding interest, only with candy.

For example, keeping a bag of Reese's Pieces, and every consecutive (time
period) you go without breaking goal X, you add (# of time periods) pieces of
candy to a jar. Then at the end of the day, you cash out your jar.

So, longer periods of self control would result in a larger reward, and a
physical/visual representation of your progress so far would help reinforce
your motivation to remain on track.

Maybe if using candy, you get to eat half of what you'd put in immediately,
and take advantage of the gradually escalating amount of sugar to help
reinforce your willpower reserves?

Mostly just brainstorming here. :P

------
schiptsov
_Nonetheless, the very idea of self-­control has acquired a musty Victorian
odor._ \- Rly? How about Eastern cultures who rely on self-control as a
foundation for ages and ages? How about Art of War and other classic Chinese
texts? How about The Book of Five Rings and other classics about mortal
fights? What about Tibetan tradition which emphasizes self-control as a
recruitment for self-transformation? Zen and other traditions based on
Buddha's teachings? And, at last, what about Greek's 'Conquer yourself' maxim,
which is the second most important one after 'Catch The Moment'? ^_^

It seems like modern journalist, same as modern hackers, are completely
unaware, that all those self-help books, starting from Dale Carnegie's and
Napoleon Hill's ones are mere compilations and oversimplifications of general
western and some times eastern philosophy? But why, not everyone has a degree
in Philosophy like the founder of this site. ^_^

The level of submissions and discussions on HN is somewhere below zero, after
it became a huge mainstream site. Now being hacker is an ability to praise and
admire some celebrities to silently down-vote people whom they can't
appreciate or even understand.

Is there any new small community, with at least a little bit above mediocre
level? ^_^

~~~
gruseom
"[H]as acquired a musty Victorian odor" says nothing about origins; that's the
opposite of what "acquired" means. All you have to do is read the next
sentence to see that Pinker is obviously talking about the arc of the idea in
English-speaking modernity. Is he right about that? Maybe not, but your
comment is irrelevant to his claim.

------
vishaldpatel
I can't comment on willpower over everything, but if it is about working out /
doing chores / getting to work, I have a hack for you:

Well.. it isn't really a hack, but something to remind yourself every fucking
time that you're stalling. All you need is enough motivation to do it for 5
minutes. FIVE MINUTES!

Thats enough motivation to basically start an activity and forget about
everything else in the process, and getting on with it. Just start doing it...
FIVE MINUTES!!!

------
zach
The application of this research on sports performance don't seem to have been
explored much as far as I've found.

Which seems surprising to me seeing that Dr. Baumeister is a professor at
Florida State. You'd think at least the ability of offensive linemen to stay
completely still would have the football program interested in this research.

------
w1ntermute
> “Willpower”is filled with advice about what to do with your willpower. Build
> up its strength, the authors suggest, with small but regular exercises, like
> tidiness and good posture. Don’t try to tame every bad habit at once.

This is the key. For example, instead of having a bunch of New Year's
resolutions, come up with one resolution every month. Focus your (finite)
willpower on making it into a habit, at which point it won't require willpower
anymore. Next month, move onto another habit and do the same thing. You can
drastically change your lifestyle in just 1 year by repeating this 12 times.

~~~
RobertHubert
Also, I have found that "breaking" the willpower mind wall has to do with
taking tasks (like good posture, delaying FB status updates, doing dishes) and
rewarding yourself mentally along the way by thinking or even saying things
like "This is great! or I win!" even so much as smiling while doing these
things helps to reinforce the dopamine pathways and can overtime help in "re-
coding" your brain to be will-powerful. It's about feeling good while doing
things and your brain doesn't know the difference between fake good and real
good and before you know it neither will you and that's the point :)

------
fractalcat
The NYT only found out about this now? O.o

Steve Pavlina (<http://www.stevepavlina.com/>) has some good stuff on training
willpower (willpower is like D-Day, a huge violent bloody assault which was
used to establish fortifications on the ground so that you _didn't_ need to
launch a huge violent bloody assault every time you wanted to get things
done). Use willpower to build habits that will stay with you even when you
have the mental energy of a marketroid.

~~~
kristofferR
It's not an article abouth the subject of willpower (although it seems that
way), but rather a book review of the book Willpower: Rediscovering the
Greatest Human Strength.

~~~
fractalcat
So it is. Must remember not to read news at 0500. -_-

------
radu_floricica
Baumeister actually wrote a book about this?! It's definitely a must read. If
you haven't picked up anything of his before - he's a very good writer, and
one of the most "correct thinkers" I know. Not a shred of idea that's not
justified by research.

------
mechnik
A short opinion piece that touches on the Baumeister's study:
<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/opinion/02aamodt.html>

------
rytis
ok, so let's go back to this for example:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2908015> (I am nothing).

As the author says: "I am nothing, and so I am finally free to be myself.".

Does being 'myself' mean I lack willpower and thus just ignore everything and
everyone else and focus on myself?

Thing is, in my opinion having good self control wins over being myself (which
I think is on the edge of being selfish).

I wonder what you guys think on the question 'being myself' vs 'self-control'
?

------
tkahn6
Forgive me for my ignorance, but shouldn't "Ulysses had himself tied to the
mast" be " _Odysseus_ had himself tied to the mast"?

I haven't read Ulysses but I have read The Odyssey.

~~~
_delirium
"Ulysses" is the Latin rendering of "Odysseus", so is sometimes used
interchangeably.

~~~
tkahn6
Excellent! Thanks.

