

Ask HN: Why aren't people using PayPal Payflow? - aj0strow

Looking at the PayPal pricing (https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paypal.com&#x2F;ca&#x2F;webapps&#x2F;mpp&#x2F;merchant-fees), it seems there&#x27;s a complete steal. Underneath the Stripe-esque 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction, there&#x27;s this.<p>Payflow Pro<p>$25 Monthly Fee
$99 setup
$0.10 per transaction<p>From Stripe, &quot;We offer volume discounts to businesses processing more than $80,000 per month.&quot; Seems like any business above $1k per month and under $80k would save money. ($25 &#x2F; 2.9% = $862).<p>Am I missing something?
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patio11
The developer experience for Paypal integrations leaves... much to be desired.
I don't know how to convey the magnitude of the difference without forcing you
to implement code against a Paypal API.

Maybe, for a taste of it: Paypal ships API documentation as X00 page PDF
files. Their Payflow Pro product, being relatively simple, requires only 176
pages.

Or, in terms of design decisions, consider all the fun of writing software
which implements a case statement that maps error code 100 to "Invalid
transaction returned from host (Processor), in the case where the processor is
Global Payments East or Central." to, well, whatever the heck you're supposed
to do when that happens.

~~~
aj0strow
Thanks Patrick, really enjoy your blog. Um this doesn't look so bad tho.

[https://developer.paypal.com/docs/api/#create-a-
payment](https://developer.paypal.com/docs/api/#create-a-payment)

[https://github.com/paypal/PayPal-node-
SDK/blob/master/sample...](https://github.com/paypal/PayPal-node-
SDK/blob/master/samples/payment/create_with_credit_card.js)

EDIT

I've been googling and heard such bad things about PayPal but it _looks_ fine.
Am i crazy?!

~~~
patio11
Note that you can't use their REST APIs with the product whose pricing you
want.

~~~
aj0strow
Aha! There it is. Thanks!

------
dangrossman
> Am I missing something?

Yes, a merchant account. "Start accepting credit cards using your existing
merchant account."

PayFlow is just a gateway. A gateway cannot process credit cards without being
attached to a merchant account; it is just an API to bridge the web with the
processing network of the merchant account provider. You can't use it to
charge credit cards for $25 and $0.10 per transaction, you pay that _on top
of_ the processing fees charged by the merchant account provider.

PayFlow was previously a Verisign product that PayPal acquired in 2006.

That isn't to say you can't save money over Stripe with PayPal. PayPal
Payments Pro is their integrated gateway and processing solution, and
discounts below Stripe's rates start at $3,000 per month of volume instead of
$80,000 per month.

[https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-
fees](https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees)

------
webnrrd2k
There is a decent range of businesses who are well-served by going the Payflow
route -- government offices, non-profits, Universities, etc... Generally
small-to-mid-sized businesses with small-to-mid-sized payment processing
needs.

It's been a while, but I've set up a few Payflow-based systems, and it's been
a great way to go... Payflow allows you much more control and detailed logging
than, say Stripe. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to get it all set up at first, and
there are a few tricks with error handling, but it's a good way to go to
implement your own payment system.

------
joshdance
First mind share. If you are a developer and you want payments, currently you
think Stripe.

Second, ease of use reputation. Paypal is not known to be easy to integrate
with and use.

Third, reputation in general. Paypal has a history and reputation (whether
deserved or not) of freezing your accounts and leaving you in the worst
situation etc.

