
iPhone logs my complete movement profile - ladino
http://board.protecus.de/t42771.htm#360301
======
tsycho
That's how the iOS core location API works (and it has been this way since iOS
5 atleast, if not earlier).

In particular, there is a |startMonitoringSignificantLocationChanges| method
([https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/CoreLo...](https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/CoreLocation/Reference/CLLocationManager_Class/CLLocationManager/CLLocationManager.html#//apple_ref/occ/instm/CLLocationManager/startMonitoringSignificantLocationChanges)),
which "callbacks" into apps that have registered with the Core Location
framework for significant change updates. The update is provided generally
only when cell towers change, so it is not a battery drain (or not a
significant one). Hence, your mobile operator definitely has this data, and is
most likely already tracking it and/or piping it to the NSA etc.

Significant change monitoring is used by Google Now among other apps (I
believe Facebook also does this, I find that more sneaky since they have no
obvious need for it). Google Maps _navigation_ does not use this, since it
needs more granular and accurate data hence it uses the more battery-intensive
location APIs.

If the complaint is that it's okay for Apple to collect this data for apps to
use, but there is no need to log it, especially since the user might choose to
not allow any apps to access their location data, then that's a fair point. I
don't know if iOS shows these logs only on the beta versions, or whether they
are stored persistently on release versions as well.

Source: I am a iOS dev, and have built location based apps.

~~~
eddieroger
One _really_ important bit of information to add to the first full paragraph
is that when the app tries to use startMonitoringForSignificantChanges: for
the first time, the user is asked whether or not they want the app to. If they
select "Don't Allow", then it's game over for that app until the user changes
the setting in Settings. This doesn't stop iOS from doing what it's doing, but
should quell fears that random apps are just logging all kinds of user data
and sending it to who knows where.

~~~
rismay
Very true. I wasn't even aware of that part of the Settings app until I
started developing. Apple should at least allow developers to "deep link" into
the settings screen to remove that friction.

~~~
6chars
Apple used to allow that (well, developers figured out the right URIs to use),
but they broke it in iOS 5.1.1 or 6 IIRC.

------
julianpye
If you want to build transparent context-aware services, your system will need
to create this information. Nothing new to do with the iPhone, since Telcos
already have had this information for ages (and could use them anonymously) -
it's good at least that in this system you see how the data is being analysed
and associated with Work/Home, etc... and not that it is hidden in the
background.

~~~
Eduard
Given current affairs, it's bad that this system doesn't inform the user about
a new feature being activated on default. It is hidden in the background.

~~~
nicholassmith
Actually when you setup your iPhone (including these betas) it _does_ ask you
if you want to have the feature enabled. It certainly wasn't on by default for
me, I agreed to it. Granted it doesn't go into incredibly great detail of
exactly what it was tracking but it does give you the gist.

If the NSA wants to track you, there's far simpler ways than asking Apple to
build a new product feature than can be disabled.

~~~
deveac
_> If the NSA wants to track you, there's far simpler ways than asking Apple
to build a new product feature than can be disabled._

I don't know...letting a plethora of private entities collect and aggregate
user data for easy access with (or without in many cases) a court order seems
almost like the epitome of simplicity. Most of the hard work (both resource-
wise and legal) has been done for you or is easy to do. Just cause one could
design a simpler system of acquiring user data doesn't mean that features like
this aren't profoundly simple and useful to them.

I take your point though, that the NSA doesn't need to direct a company to
code features that collect data...because so many companies already do. It's a
waste of their breath. They just need to concentrate on grabbing what has
already been grabbed. We've been the product for a long time now, and we're
either being sold to the government, or the government is taking what they
want under (il)legal cover.

~~~
nicholassmith
Which is why there's an off switch for the feature. Of course we don't know if
the offswitch is an offswitch or a 'hide this from the user' switch but then
we have to start mistrusting all the technology around us.

------
Watabou
Android does this too with Google Now.

iOS7 uses frequent locations, pretty much like Google Now, to provide the
travel times, with traffic, between your frequently visited locations.

Here's a screenshot: [http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-
new/2013/06/location2.jpg](http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-
new/2013/06/location2.jpg)

~~~
raverbashing
Yes

Google Now is bordering scary

Here's what happens on Google Now when you travel

1 - Search for a place (this is usually the hotel you're going to)

2 - Get there

3 - Google Now will give a traffic alert "xx minutes until $PLACE" (the place
you searched for in n.1 )

~~~
eddieroger
I didn't even mind that. What really freaked me out about Google Now is when
it started showing package tracking cards based on having shipping notices in
my email. Of course Google has access to all of that, but it weirded me out
the first time I saw it.

~~~
pwelch
Agreed.

Most of the times I check invoice emails I am looking for the Tracking
Information.

This is what makes it tough to move away from Google. Yes they give the NSA
access to my data and border on scary by analyzing all of my usage but they
offer some really handy options.

------
rsynnott
You mean that thing it asks you for permission to do when you set up the
phone, and gives you a slider to disable? It actually does it? Well, I'm
shocked, I tell you, shocked.

------
thejosh
Atleast they will show you the data, unlike phone companies who hold all this
data anyway.

Once you have a phone device with an active signal you are tracked, and that's
just not being paranoid either.

~~~
donquichotte
But how much of the collected data do they show you? IMO services like this
should be opt-in, rather than opt-out.

~~~
ladino
it's currently ios7 beta, i really hope they do it opt-in in the future.

~~~
pilif
The difference between ios7 and previous versions is not that ios7 is logging.
It's that ios7 is telling you that it's logging and what it is logging.
Location Services always worked this way - it just wasn't exposed to the user.

------
BitMastro
The same happens with Google Maps
[https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/](https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/)
unless you disable location history.

I think it's naive to suppose that your location information is not stored
anywhere. Moreover, your location can be determined also if you're using a
dumb-phone using cell towers triangulation.

------
willvarfar
A long time ago, when the first iphone location logs got attention, we made a
little web-page for people to visualise this:

[http://markolson.github.com/js-sqlite-map-
thing/](http://markolson.github.com/js-sqlite-map-thing/)

Blog post:
[http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/15210221400/visua...](http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/15210221400/visualising-
iphone-tracking-data)

> It turns out people have no squirms dragging and dropping their private
> backup files - often all their files, and not just picking out the files we
> ask for even - onto a webpage running code we wrote.

------
antonID
I have been using the iOS7 beta since it came out, and before doing this, it
had asked me for permission. This is opt-in, so if you don't like it you don't
have to use it.

~~~
ladino
yes on install it asks if it is allowed to use location services at all (for
all apps) but not for this tracking feature.

~~~
Terretta
Both iPad and iPhone iOS 7 betas asked me separately about this feature.

------
jbrooksuk
What's wrong with this? Apple are openly providing this information for you to
view - rather than others who don't even warn the user. Plus, it's improving
their services which you more than likely need.

Why complain? You can opt out.

~~~
_ak
> Why complain?

Because the person in the article is German, and Germans love their privacy-
by-default and opt-in. Datenschutz über alles.

~~~
aw3c2
Germany has the "benefit" of having experienced the Gestapo and Stasi so there
is knowledge how dangerous omniscient parties are.

------
digitalengineer
Why do our European leaders even plan RFID in licenceplates? With this in the
default 'ON' position on all smartphones they can already keep an eye on
everybody.
[http://www.autoblog.nl/images/wp2013/tweet-2.jpg](http://www.autoblog.nl/images/wp2013/tweet-2.jpg)

~~~
philjohn
Stop being paranoid - they can already track you from cell tower data.

~~~
rogerbraun
We should stop being paranoid because we are already being tracked?

------
37prime
It is nothing new. In previous iOS, this data was not presented to users at
all.

Android does this too.

At least you can turn this off in iOS 7 beta 5.

~~~
ladino
\- It was invisible to the normal user! \- It collects these exact data since
iOS 7 beta 4 and shows it since beta 5!

~~~
reaperhulk
This is just flat untrue. It has collected this data since b1 and I found the
screen that showed it in b2 or b3 (but it was probably present in b1 as well).
It also explicitly asks you if you want this feature (separate from the
location services opt-in).

------
octo_t
It also does analysis, similar to Google Now, that tells you how long it will
take to get home from where you are now.

------
northwest
Society has accepted to be tracked all the time/everywhere with the
introduction of mobile phones.

If we don't like this, we should start to talk more proactively to people
about the dangers our technology brings.

~~~
greyman
In my opinion, "accepted" is not the most precise word to describe it. If
telco companies would say at the beginning: "You can buy mobile phone from us,
but the part of the deal is that you will be tracked. Do you accept that?" If
most people say Yes, that would be accepting it.

The reality was, that it was slowly revealed over time that the tracking is
being done, and most people realized it only after mobile phones became a norm
and very hard to get rid of.

~~~
northwest
True.

I'd say that it's the responsibility of those familiar with technology to
reveal what possibilities it opens up.

And of course it's the responsibility of the Press to give these points the
visibility they deserve.

And one problem of the past was probably the disconnect between tech people
and Press people (tech was not understood by the people behind the presses).
Today, we have tech bloggers and social media. Let's hope this will make up
for something.

------
lukashed
Since this is a developer preview, there are plenty of other logging options
as well.

For example, if you got to the Settings -> Developer -> Logging menu, you can
dump all your network traffic.

You can also do this on (some) application-levels, e.g. if you go to the
iMessage preferences, you can enable "iMessage Logging" and "Registration
Logging", same for FaceTime (though I'm not sure why any developer would need
this, it looks more like this is an Apple-internal thing that they forgot to
disable for the public).

------
ltcoleman
I'm pretty sure this is completely against the NDA...No respect.

------
wsr
Wow, this is an amazing find.

I can understand that Apple/govt would love this information. But anyone has
guesses on why this would be a public facing feature?

~~~
julianpye
Four years ago I led a project like this. In this slideset you can see on page
4 what we wanted to build and on page 5 whate we would need:
[http://www.w3.org/2008/09/msnws/slides/vodafone-
pye.pdf](http://www.w3.org/2008/09/msnws/slides/vodafone-pye.pdf)

~~~
ronaldx
This is a super-interesting project, but not something I would be interested
in using.

If I arrive at Piccadilly Circus, I don't want my phone to tell me what
service I [should need/should be using] - I want to easily and consistently
access any service that I want from my phone.

I want to be in control of my phone, not for my phone to be in control of me.

~~~
julianpye
Even then people were overwhelmed by the phone functions and could not
navigate the directory when they needed something quick. With people having
installed tens of apps nowadays, this problem is even worse...

~~~
ronaldx
I feel that the correct solution to this is approximately the one that now
exists: allowing people to control how the navigation screens look, and
control for themselves how to access the apps they use.

------
eknkc
BTW, it asks specifically if you want to share the information with Apple to
improve maps data before activating that feature.

------
rumbler
What depresses me is, I see how this information could be used in many kinds
of amazing ways, but since I cannot control who gets it and what they will do
with it, I refuse to use it for fear that it will be used against me.

It is the tragedy of the modern connected world, one that Stallman and others
saw coming years ago. And it will keep getting worse.

~~~
voodoo123
iOS let's you choose:

\- Whether this information is collected at all \- which specific apps can
access it \- whether apple can receive an anonymized copy of it to improve
their maps

The data is stored securely on your device and you can see it delete it.

What more control do you want?

------
andrewingram
Looks like they're just making visible what they've been doing for years,
hardly a new controversy.

2011:
[http://www.pcworld.com/article/225845/Why_Apple_Tracks_You_V...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/225845/Why_Apple_Tracks_You_Via_iPhone_It_Not_Why_You_Think.html)

~~~
fnl
True, but we all know from marketing/propaganda lessons that frequent
repetition is the only way to drive a point home in most cases... :)

------
incanus77
This was covered in The Verge this week:
[http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/5/4590794/ios-7-will-ask-
user...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/5/4590794/ios-7-will-ask-users-to-
help-improve-maps-by-sharing-frequent-locations)

------
joering2
Im not related to this project, but I thought its worth mentioning here:

[http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/offpocket/off-
pocket?ref...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/offpocket/off-
pocket?ref=category)

------
yalogin
I thought this only happens with your permission. I remember this is in the
first few screens after you update. Also in the screen shot of his it clearly
shows he gave permission to remember location. Why is this news? What am I not
seeing?

------
ladino
a bit scary to see exactly how often and when i was where with my gf... nice
to see they added a microphone privacy setting.

Anyway imho it's close to a perfect surveillance system.

~~~
northwest
I don't think it's wise to trust any such "privacy setting".

What devices really need is a hardware switch allowing us to physically
disconnect cameras and microphones.

I've never understood why this was not introduced as a standard when laptop
cams/mics started being built-in.

~~~
bruceboughton
How can you trust a hardware switch any more than a software switch? Granted
you can take your hardware apart to inspect it, but:

\- can you put your laptop together again? (especially tablets) \- will you be
able to see the switch innards to ensure it is disconnected? \- who will
bother?

~~~
teddyh
Someone could take apart such a switch once and verify that it works, and then
tell everyone else who owns such a device. With software, this is very hard,
and when software can be updated at any time it is impossible.

------
blizzard30
This does not exist :)) looked for it, and I have the same beta.

~~~
M4v3R
It does. Maybe you didn't look very closely, or maybe it doesn't exist on
older devices (I have iPhone 4S and I have this feature).

~~~
blizzard30
iPad mini here A1455

~~~
taspeotis
If anybody was wondering, A1455 is the cellular model. So it should be able to
collect this information accurately.

Although, let's look at the title:

> iPhone logs my complete movement profile (iOS7 screenshots) (protecus.de)

We're not talking about iPads here.

