
Safe: Set maximum capacity for any room, floor, or building - jordanmessina
https://www.density.io/blog/safe-by-density/
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gavman
The idea is definitely cool (and important/impactful at this time if
successful). That said, in the midst of a global pandemic where human density
is inherently dangerous and social distancing is espoused, naming a product
"Safe by Density" gives the exact opposite initial reaction you're probably
hoping for.

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afar
Yeah. Should have been "Safe by reducing Density"

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redwall_hp
"Safe from Density"

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afar
+1

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alfozan
This is a cool concept, though it appears to only care about the total number
of people being below a set threshold regardless how people interact (i.e.
maintain social distancing)

Shameless plug: two friends and I put together a small app that uses security
cameras feed to calculate real-time density + estimate "safe" space capacity:

Demo video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgxhptePxM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgxhptePxM)
Demo site: [https://flou.fyi/](https://flou.fyi/) (takes a bit to load)

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A4ET8a8uTh0
I think it could work. Heavens know, I will now have to actively avoid places
that are not at least careful about how they reopen.

I am mildly concerned about people, who see doing the opposite as a political
expression, but some things cannot be helped.

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jedberg
> I am mildly concerned about people, who see doing the opposite as a
> political expression

Those people are a very small but vocal minority, being amplified by social
media.

All the data says that most people are complying with safe practices, even
when their governments aren't requiring it.

~~~
dkdk8283
> Those people are a very small but vocal minority, being amplified by social
> media.

I disagree. Tens of thousands of people in my state don’t obey any stay at
home order. People take off masks once in stores.

As someone who also goes out a lot right now I haven’t seen anyone be asked to
put their mask on or leave.

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jedberg
Which state? And how do you know tens of thousands are ignoring it?

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chrisco255
Georgia reopened weeks ago and yesterday hit their lowest levels of cases and
deaths since the outbreak began at 22 and 3 respectively: [https://ga-
covid19.ondemand.sas.com/](https://ga-covid19.ondemand.sas.com/)

~~~
jedberg
Georgia reopened 14 days ago. The incubation is 14 days.

If their numbers stay low in the next few days then great!

But if they start going up, they will have sacrificed the lives of Georgians
to prove that it’s not safe to reopen.

I hope the cases stay low.

~~~
chrisco255
No, they started reopening on April 24th:
[https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kemp-shuttered-
georg...](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kemp-shuttered-georgia-
businesses-reopen-friday-70250918)

So yeah the models were wrong.

~~~
jedberg
It was a very limited reopening on April 24. The full reopening didn’t happen
until April 30.

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IgorPartola
I love this idea and I love how it looks. The design is top notch. Really hope
to see this near me soon.

~~~
larschdk
The stylized design makes my brain recognize is as just another random
inspirational poster or an add, not something I should pay attention to. We
have standard and widespread symbols already for stop/go which should be
applied here in some form.

~~~
afar
That's an interesting point. What would you recommend? Follow street sign
structure?

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lvturner
Having seen the way people 'queue' when waiting outside an eatery implementing
social distancing guidelines - this only solves part of the problem.

Edit: Perhaps integrating it with some sort of QR Code based ticketing system
for entry would alleviate the issues of people queueing (or huddling) outside
the store?

~~~
afar
You're right. "Notify me when it's quiet" is a thing the system supports. In
related news, load balancing humans is a two-sided thing.

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redis_mlc
So ... how does it work, given that 2m is not enough, and the distance of 10m
is thought to be more likely? :)

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Polylactic_acid
My first thought is this puts way too much stock in the idea that rooms are
safe as long as they aren't too packed. To me it seems like this 1.5m rule and
person limits aren't actually backed up by real research and are just numbers
pulled out of a hat when something had to be done fast.

We shouldn't be finding ways to get people back in to shared buildings as soon
as possible because infections don't just give up because the TV on the door
said OK.

~~~
redis_mlc
I was just thinking that the difference in fatalities between NY and SF might
be that NY has a colder climate, so airtight buildings with more heating.

A virus like corona with a high R0 would spread like crazy in a building with
active ventilation piping. Or an airliner.

Corona is really a non-event in SF.

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wafn
I could not find whether this integrates with NFPA etc. to help interpret
blueprints (or simplified diagrams). While determining capacity is relatively
easy, it could definitely be easier.

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_bxg1
Interesting, but I'm skeptical it could make some semblance of normal life
"safe" purely through occupancy counts. It also seems like a likely very
expensive solution to something that could be solved with a handheld clicker.
Corporate offices might splurge for it, but they're also more likely to just
have people working from home.

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piniondna
I think people think that shooting down ideas makes them sound intelligent and
“in the know”, but in reality it just makes you sound rigid and not creative
enough to see the merit in a idea.

This seems to be a common attitude on HN, but it’s less than useful. Genuine
critical thinking is great... dogmatic cynicism is useless.

~~~
_bxg1
I think people think that criticizing others by over-applying perceived HN
tropes makes them sound intelligent and "in the know".

I wasn't shooting it down, I was just expressing skepticism toward the
complexity of the solution and opening it up for wider discussion.

~~~
afar
Skepticism on this stuff is valid. If we're going to distribute large scale
infrastructure that measures human movement we ought to be critical of it. So
many systems purport to work but don't. Others are way over engineered. And a
lot market as if they're sensors when they're really just cameras taking
pictures of behavior.

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kevin2r
A phone app could replace this right? Using the front facing camera you could
run some image recognition to count the flow of people and show the statistics
on screen. Put the phone on a stand and leave it running. Much cheaper.

~~~
flak48
Their whole selling point seems to be that their hardware + software can count
people accurately without needing a camera. The premise being that cameras
spook people.

Cameras are already commonplace enough where I work, for security purposes. So
not sure how easily cameras can be eliminated.

The dashboards they provide don't seem to be have to be coupled to the kind of
($850) hardware they are selling. Like you said, cameras should be able to do
the job.

~~~
afar
I don't think cameras will be displaced / eliminated. It's just a question of
whether or not they will be accepted as a form of active surveillance or
remain a method of security. Today, they are largely security but it's
entirely possible the world moves toward mass surveillance.

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sohamsankaran
How do these devices actually work?

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raizinho
Here's an interview from a while back:
[https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2018/07/16/counting-
peo...](https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2018/07/16/counting-people-with-
andrew-farah/)

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euroderf
"Indoor Densitivity"

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riffic
Viruses don't care about how many people are in a room, and this doesn't seem
like something people are going to worry about much 10 years down the road.

~~~
mceachen
At the same time, I'd much rather shop in a small neighborhood grocery store
with 5-10 other patrons instead of 200.

Trader Joe's and other retailers (at least in the bay area) have to delegate a
full-time employee to the front door to throttle incoming patrons. This would
free up that employee.

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MertsA
>This would free up that employee.

In my area Walmart has started making each aisle one way and counting people
coming into the store. Just yesterday I went in and it's already devolved into
no one following the directions on the aisle, no one seems to be in the
slightest bit considerate about trying to give others space to go around.
People were regularly reaching around someone getting an item and coming into
close contact instead of waiting all of 5 seconds for them to get their item
and move.

There are already plenty of news articles about customers doing increasingly
outrageous things and attacking employees because they dared to tell the
customer not to violate store policy around purchase limits, senior hours,
mask policies, occupancy limits, etc. The fancy sign telling someone to wait
will not free up employees because there will inevitably be a chunk of the
population who ignores it outright and when they just walk in the door, others
will follow. These policies are meaningless unless there's some actual
enforcement.

~~~
afar
I agree with this. It's compliance will be contextual / regional / etc. This
is why the system also support real-time alerts and safe analytics. In the
event a place like Walmart wants to more actively enforce they can. Display is
just the public facing feature.

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triyambakam
I am sad about how far apart we're growing as people due to virus that is no
more scary than the flu.

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AnotherGoodName
Funny you say no more scary than the flu when the flu is literally the cause
of the last pandemic that killed 3% if the global population.

~~~
triyambakam
Sure, to be more correct I mean a mild flu season, not 1918.

