
California turns to vote-by-mail to keep residents safe come November - MLEnthusiast
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/08/california-vote-by-mail/
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jedberg
I live in Santa Clara county, which had a vote-by-mail-only policy for the
primary in March. It was supposed to be part of an experiment in mail-only
voting, as California was planning to be mail-only statewide by 2022 anyway.

FWIW, it was the easiest voting ever. I've been permanent vote-by-mail for
many years, but usually I had to fight the crowds on election day to drop off
my ballot at a polling place. This time they had drop boxes all over the
county that were open 24 hours, so I was able to drop my ballot off at 10
Monday night, after I filled it out.

So this isn't actually a huge change. They're just accelerating the timeline.

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mehrdadn
Confused, why couldn't you just drop it off in the mail? You don't have to
drop it off at the polling place right?

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jedberg
Until recently it required a stamp, and I was too cheap to put $1.20 in
postage on it (it was heavy so it cost extra).

Also I wanted the sticker, and the only way to get that was to drop it off at
a polling place.

~~~
mehrdadn
I see haha. I guess that's why some counties mail the sticker lol.
Interestingly I seem to recall hearing if your stamps are too low they'll just
charge the county instead of discarding the mail (though it'd be nice to
verify somehow). I can only imagine the time and/or gas you spent on it was
worth more than $1.20 but at least I can understand the sentiment now =P
thanks!

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TechBro8615
California is one of the only states where “ballot harvesting” is legal. [0]
Party officials can submit batches of votes collected from people who are not
their family members. As you can imagine, accusations of impropriety abound.

Putting partisan politics aside, I’m not sure how a rational person can look
at this and conclude that it leads to fair elections.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_harvesting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_harvesting)

~~~
daenz
What's the argument for it?

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wahern
Dropping off your elderly parents' or neighbors' belated vote-by-mail ballot
at your local polling site. Previously it was illegal to do something that
simple, which with shelter-in-place has a pretty decent cost+benefit even if
you disbelieve the evidence on voter fraud.

~~~
sio8ohPi
If we're still talking about California, it was legal to drop off a family
member's ballot prior to AB 1921.

Is there a state that allows vote-by-mail and doesn't allow family members to
drop off ballots?

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PureParadigm
One criticism I see often of many electronic voting systems also applies to
vote by mail: it does not protect against external pressure or buying votes.
Someone could easily offer to buy blank ballots (especially from poor voters
who may need the money), or otherwise coerce/pressure people to reveal their
ballots and break anonymity. I realize actions like these are already a crime,
but one of the main reasons for the secret ballot is to protect against
situations like these by making it impossible to do.

Perhaps this compromise in the integrity of the voting system is one we want
to make in these unusual times, but I think it is important to point out that
there is indeed a compromise here. Mail voting doesn't come without its own
issues.

~~~
jedberg
> it does not protect against external pressure or buying votes.

It does though. If your vote was coerced you can always request another
ballot, which invalidates the first.

If you're getting paid to vote a certain way, then nothing here really
changes. California already had vote by mail as an option.

~~~
JoshTriplett
And most states have the concept of "absentee ballots", as well, which are
effectively voting by mail.

~~~
PureParadigm
Right. I'm not arguing for or against voting by mail or absentee ballots. I'm
only pointing out that these voting methods come with risks, and it's better
to be aware of the risks when deciding whether we want mail/absentee voting.
There very well may be situations where absentee/mail voting is the best
option (and possibly during this pandemic), but it would be disingenuous to
pretend that they don't carry any risks. Like all public policy decisions,
this is a cost-benefit analysis, and an informed decision needs to be aware of
both costs and benefits.

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JoshTriplett
Oregon has been doing this for decades, and it works wonderfully.

~~~
holler
1987: "Vote-by-mail becomes permanent, with the majority of Oregon's counties
making use of it." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-
mail_in_Oregon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon)

1987: The last time a Republican was Governor of Oregon (33 years).

~~~
whyenot
1987: The #1 song in the US was Walk Like an Egyptian by the Bangles.

1987: West German Mathias Rust lands his small plane in Red Square

1987: Square releases the first Final Fantasy video game.

I'm sure it was all due to vote by mail.

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djsumdog
We've always had absentee ballots. I've filed one once when I was overseas. If
you want to vote, but not show up to a polling station, you can request a
absentee. They do get counted after traditional ballots on election day
results, but they do get counted. Why not just promote the existing system?
Did California not have absentee ballots before now?

~~~
blackguardx
If you voted absentee in California, you had to vote in every single election
or you lost your absentee status.

Colorado’s model makes the most sense. Everyone gets a mail-in ballot and you
can either mail it or drop it off to a polling center day-of. If you lose your
ballot, I think you can also go in person to get it worked out. Also, you can
look up online to see of they counted your ballot.

~~~
greglindahl
I've been a vote-by-mail voter in California since 2002. Perhaps you're
describing a particular county? The only difference in my county from the
Colorado system is that only a subset of elections are all vote-by-mail. And
our next election, now, is one of them.

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Cyclone_
Absentee ballots were a disaster in WI. Many people did not get their ballots
that they were supposed to by mail. Hard to believe that this could possibly
be considered a legitimate election.
[https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/northshore/news/f...](https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/northshore/news/fox-
point/2020/04/08/wisconsin-election-fox-point-absentee-ballots-never-made-
voters/5119812002/)

~~~
war1025
Presumably a state that plans more than a couple weeks out for it would have
better luck.

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OrgNet
My problem with vote-by-mail is that they have to confirm that your signature
is the same... and mine is not. I have been voting by mail but I don't know if
they count my vote.

~~~
vinay427
At least in my county, although I expect most have something similar, you can
check the status of your ballot online. If that's not available, my local
officials have always been more than helpful over the phone.

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rpiguy
By the way there was an election in Wisconsin I think some 400,000 people came
out to vote, and there was no surge in Covid patients afterword.

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Simulacra
I think we should all consider this: Do you know someone who is likely to go
out there, harvest the ballots, and then dump them? If the answer to that is
yes, then you should not want all mail in voting.

~~~
wpietri
At least here in SF, that's not a worry. People voting by mail get a receipt
that lets them track the arrival of their ballot. Here's the voter portal:
[https://sfelections.org/tools/portal/](https://sfelections.org/tools/portal/)

Just searching a bit, I see Santa Clara county does the same:
[https://eservices.sccgov.org/rov?tab=ab](https://eservices.sccgov.org/rov?tab=ab)

I suspect that's widespread in CA.

