

The Gentle Art of Poverty - amadiver
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/1969/12/the-gentle-art-of-poverty/8241/

======
pigbucket
Every once in a while a discussion of poverty comes up on HN and provokes
typically two kinds of responses: The poor are deserving of their lot, lacking
the necessary wherewithal to get up off their asses and take responsibility
for their lives; or, the poor are trapped by circumstances in a life not of
their choosing and deserve whatever assistance we can give them to help them
cope with their lot. This article tells the kind of unexpected story that,
when you think about it, should have been expected all along. The poor, like
the rich, and everyone in between, are not a homogeneous bunch of people that
fit neatly into any predetermined category. This is a story of how a smart
person learned how to be a smart poor person, learned, in effect, how to hack
the life of poverty, and in a way that demands from me a certain amount of
respect for the sheer skill and will involved, if not for the ethical
character of all the actions such "hacking" entails; but it is also the story
of a person who became disillusioned with his way of life. At that point,
reading the story, considering how eloquently written, if how poorly edited,
it was, I expected a tale of redemption, a tale of a man finding a new job as
a writer, lifting himself up by his bootstraps, returning to the American
dream, a tale that would end with a predictable heartfelt plea for
understanding and compassion. Instead, the story ends with his being still
depressed, but in a situation all the more unsure just for his proud refusal
to play the system. I don't know that I have a point here, except to say that
the story brings home more clearly than any other I have read on this matter
that the poor are a many-colored, heterogeneous group, and stock responses, of
whatever stamp, and of a type all too common on HN, are almost sure to fail to
be answerable to the complexities of poverty.

~~~
kiba
I recalled from my history class that the Georgia colony was originally
founded for the "worthy" poor. So they made distinction between the kind of
poor. There are some poor who deserve their lot in life and those who don't.

However, I think being poor is not alway as simple as people like to make it.
Sometime, growing up poor meant adopting ideas and values that make it much
harder to rise out of poverty. I recalled a book that for example said that
middle class women read much more to their children and emphasize effort over
"rightness", ask questions to their children about what they read. The poor
were more likely to be authoritarian in character, less likely to do the kind
of educational reading that a middle class woman did, and so on. The effect is
so large, that it even persists over generations.

If you have poor parents that did everything in their power to educate you as
an autodidact, than you and your family would rise out of poverty quick.
However, it is probable that all our families face bottleneck. We aren't
exactly optimized to make our children the most ambitious, smartest, and
autodidact as we can.

I myself have parents that didn't exactly encourage the kind of ambitious and
curiosity that I have right now. It was my own innate and the computer that I
used. During the time when I still used AOL, I would look up encyclopedia
article and educate myself about the various topics that interests me.
Eventually I would learn programming and a fair amount about certain obscure
subjects, IP and innovation theory being one of them.

Oddly enough, I recalled my past IQ to be around 90, below average. I tested
myself at a few IQ site several weeks ago and it returns somewhat above
average. I supposed I am not so smart as much as I am innately curious. Apart
from the real and likely accurate probability that human memory are easily
corrupted, my curiosity probably drive my IQ above average.

~~~
alnayyir
Probably just due to age curving, my IQ scores have dropped by about 30-40
points over the past 10 years on the 'normal' tests.

Oddly enough, I regain a lot of those points back if I take a 'harder' IQ
test.

I don't think my IQ has done me any real good except enable some lazy habits
and some pretty rapid adaptation faculties. (Hauling ass and learning on the
job)

I'd rather have better habits and be better at using my time wisely, although
that's steadily improving (as my IQ keeps dropping ;) )

------
dhyasama
It's important to remember that some people are poor by choice, e.g., dropped
out or just lazy, some are poor by circumstance, e.g., mental illness,
addiction, disabled, and some are poor by a combination of the two and
everything in between.

I used to have a different view of the world. It seemed if someone like me,
from a lower middle class family could go to college and pay for it myself
without much trouble then why can't everyone? Stop complaining and just do it,
right?

My girlfriend of seven years has spent most of her adult life working with the
homeless. Long talks with her, events at homeless centers, and the occasional
talk with one of her clients has changed my views. Yes, there are some people
who are pretty rotten and all to happy to work the system. Most people are not
like that though.

Imagine trying to study if you're bat shit crazy. I've met people who will
only sleep in chairs because they think beds are where "they" shoot you with
lasers. Ever been addicted to meth or heroin? Try finding the fortitude to
enroll in school while fighting that battle. Fractured your spine in a car
accident while you where unemployed? Try gutting out that pain and getting a
job. Parents beat you, sexually abused you, told you you're shit every day?
Well buck up and get on with your life son! This is the land of opportunity!

I can only imagine how difficult life is for many people. I come from a
privileged world, one without endless money, but endless love and
encouragement, where going to college was never questioned, just assumed. That
type of upbringing opens doors. It's important to remember that.

~~~
yummyfajitas
_Ever been addicted to meth or heroin?_

I've managed to avoid that by not actively going out, asking friends where I
can get meth/heroin from, approaching a person I believe to be a meth/heroin
dealer, trading money for meth/heroin, putting it into a bong, lighting it,
inhaling, and repeating until addicted.

I have great sympathy for the disabled and mentally ill. While we do a
tolerable job of taking care of the disabled, our mental health system sucks.

But you really undermine your point by including people who deliberately went
out of their way to fuck up their life.

~~~
imfallingapart
Some "fucks up" their life with drugs because at some poit they tried to evade
some things. You do not always deliberately fuck your life with drugs sometime
you think your life is so fucked up that drugs can't make things worse even if
indeed they do but you're past beyond reason

~~~
stcredzero
_sometime you think your life is so fucked up that drugs can't make things
worse_

Word to the wise: this is never true!

~~~
imfallingapart
This doesn't stops people from believing it. You can't judge people only on
their acts

------
ccollins
I was really curious to know the amounts of money the author was talking about
in 2010 terms.

His annual income was $1980 + $168.75 = $2148.75, which was 6% of "what I
earned in my prime..."

So, 100 / 6 * 2148.75 = $35,812.5 annual income

The article was written in either 1977 or 1969 (see comment by sorbus), so
let's guess his highest salary was earned in either 1965 or 1975.

Using the US Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI Inflation calculator
(<http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm>), income during his prime
in 2010 dollars was somewhere between $145,321.53 (1975) and $248,199.95
(1965)

Depending on when he wrote this article, his retirement income was somewhere
between $7,740.89 (1977) and $12,781.96 (1969)

Long story short, the author took a 95% hit to his income in "retirement"
(~$200k -> ~$10k in 2010 dollars)

~~~
corin_
Hang on...

You read that his retirement left him with 94% of his old income... then you
did some loose maths to inflate the two amounts to today's money... then you
wrote a conclusion to your comment saying that he took a hit of 95%. Errr,
what?

Thanks for giving a rough idea of what his money was in modern terms, but your
"long story short" was actually a longer version of what he had already said,
and somehow less accurate.

~~~
barrkel
The contribution of the grandparent was putting some kind of real dollars on
the income extremes.

------
WildUtah
Holy cow that is a well written little piece on depression and poverty.

And inflation. Look at those prices. More interestingly, imagine that there
was a a time when basic nutrition in San Diego cost about twice as much as a
cheap apartment. Today, the cheapest possible apartment would cost $500+ a
month and you can still feed yourself comfortably (without ripping off senior
centers) for $150-200 a month in San Diego. So the price of housing as
compared to food has risen ten-fold. That says a lot about the changes in
values and industry over the past 40 years.

I'm glad to see it recommended here.

~~~
dhyasama
How do you feed yourself for 50 cents a day with anything approaching a
balanced diet? You'd have to be incredible frugal to make one nutritious meal
for 50 cents, let alone three. I know beans and rice are cheap, especially in
bulk, but if that's all you eat then your health will surely suffer.

~~~
tinotopia
You have a decimal-point problem. $150/30 is $5 a day; it's entirely possible
to eat quite well on that.

~~~
krschultz
I think a lot of people don't realize how cheap food can be. I average $400 -
$500 a month on food, and I buy for myself and my girlfriend. We eat steak,
fish, chicken, meatballs, something good every single night. I never even look
at prices in the grocery store, I just buy whatever it is I want to buy and it
comes out to that amount. If I could spend $800 on food at the grocery store
in a month I wouldn't mind, I just don't know what I'm missing out on. The
only thing we don't do is go out to eat, or drink much.

We went out for our anniversary the other night and blew $100 on a dinner for
two, for a meal I probably could have made myself if I had put my mind to it.
That was the first time we ate at a restaurent in probably 3 months, and it
was 20-25% of our monthly food budget for 1 dinner. I enjoyed my food but I
couldn't help but think, I could eat filet mignon every single night this week
and it would be just as good for this same amount of money.

Not to mention the $10.50 martini that cost them $1 to make, or the beer I had
that cost more than a six pack of nice local beer.

So don't eat out, learn how to cook, and suddenly $5-15 a day is plenty to eat
like a king.

------
gagi
Notice how, more than once, the man refuses a well paying job because it is
difficult to do, but also does so with the understanding that enduring that
hardship would lift him out of poverty.

Notice how, instead of honorable thriftiness and hard work, the man relies on
taking advantage of the system and other peoples' hard work.

It's not romantic to acknowledge this, but it is the truth. I'm hard pressed
to find some thing which I can learn from this man.

~~~
barrkel
To what end? Why would he do that? To die marginally wealthier than he is now?

~~~
yummyfajitas
And that, right there, is the cause of poverty in America, both for this guy
and for most present day poor.

The poor have their needs met. Once you reach that level, why spend precious
leisure time just to become marginally wealthier?

~~~
Tichy
For me, having one's needs met kind of equates to not being poor. (I am aware
that the official definition of being poor is just some percentage of the
average income - that is not a very interesting category imo).

It seems rather to me looking at marginal improvements or as you call it would
pose a better explanation. If you know that if you work really hard, you can
afford a house and a nice car, it might motivate you to work hard. If all that
working harder gives you is money for an extra bottle of beer, the motivation
is not quite that great.

The jobs mentioned in the article are not really set up to changing anything
fundamental about the guys situation. You can't get rich by donating blood.

Also there seem to be other problems he had, like depression, that prevented
him from seeking a better paying job (also his age, of course).

How old are you? After a certain age you begin to notice that working actually
tends to take a toll. So you think twice about trading your health for money.

~~~
yummyfajitas
If by "poor", you mean people who's needs aren't met, we just don't have very
many of them in the US. The author of this article certainly was not poor by
that definition.

[http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2004/01/understandi...](http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2004/01/understanding-
poverty-in-america)

As for aging, that was an issue in the past, particularly when most work was
manual labor. Luckily, the present and future are much better - projections
suggest most old people will be capable of working well past 65. Here is the
hot paper:

<http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/329/5997/1287>

If you are on the wrong side of the academic paywall (my NYU library account
still works), here is a press release:
<http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Admin/INF/PR/2010/2010-09-09.html>

------
sorbus
From 1977, it's worth noting (or perhaps 1969, depending on whether you look
at the text or the url).

~~~
gommm
According to this [http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/10/the-
gent...](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/10/the-gentle-art-
of-poverty/64112/) it's from 1977

Edit: Interestingly, changing the year in the url still return the same page.
So:

[http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1977/10/the-
gent...](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1977/10/the-gentle-art-
of-poverty/8241/)

[http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1954/10/the-
gent...](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1954/10/the-gentle-art-
of-poverty/8241/)

Both point to the same article

~~~
gort
In fact, much of the URL is meaningless:

[http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/1666/09/great-
fire...](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/1666/09/great-fire-of-
london/8241/)

------
thyrsus
I wonder at the many comments here that missed or ignored that the article's
author was diagnosed with depression. That's a chronic and debilitating
disease, only marginally better medicated now than in 1977. It does not
deprive the sufferer of wit, interest, intelligence, craft or any other human
value, as the article amply demonstrates.

------
russellallen
The personal observations remind me of Orwell, but without his perspective -
this author observes himself but does not rise above his observations as
Orwell did in his similar descriptions of personal poverty.

~~~
sireat
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_the_Aspidistra_Flying>

was a book disowned by Orwell in later years (mostly because of editorial
changes he was forced to make).

Still, it is a good book to read on trappings of wealth and poverty.

~~~
mbenjaminsmith
Down and Out in Paris and London is his best work on poverty in my opinion
(also his first book). You live through every embarrassment, stolen meal and
shitty job like they are your own.

------
Maro
The main message of this post to me was that if you're above 60 you can live
off gov't welfare if you know where to go, and this is enough to keep you off
the streets (not sleep in a box). I wonder what this story would have been
like if he were 45 years old.

~~~
ido
Assuming he didn't have a disability not recognized by the welfare system
(living with a recognized disability presumably grants similar opportunities
to being old), if he was 45 years old he would have probably found a (perhaps
menial) job.

------
ngvrnd
A wrenching story of bad memes and their long term outcomes? Not sure what to
make of it. Poor bastard seems to end up making a profoundly nihilistic
statement -- life is pointless and the only thing to do is get off the bus.

------
hardik
I would be really interested to know what happened to him

~~~
johnaspden
he died

------
bhavin
Perhaps, it won't make sense to many of you, but I am really curious as to
what happened to this person afterwards he wrote this article. What path in
life he followed... any body can help finding out? Googling his name didnt
yield anything relevant yet.

------
durbin
Written October 1977

~~~
lelele
Why does the URL of the archive at the bottom of the page shows "1969", then?

------
hackermom
Is he claiming that he actually has, in his own words, an ANNUAL TOTAL of
$1980+$168.75 ($179/mo), with _no wellfare in the picture_ , or is it implied
that these are the _monthly_ pension payouts?

~~~
maxawaytoolong
That is the annual total. The article is from 1979.

