
Why is asbestos still killing people? - mr_tyzic
http://mosaicscience.com/story/killer-dust
======
thrownaway2424
In California there's a large asbestos deposit near the town of Coalinga. Two
of the mines were cleaned up under the EPA "superfund". The surrounding area
also contains a toxic mercury mine called New Idria. The whole region is
remote and favored by hunters, campers, and motorcyclists.

The funny thing about this site is how polarizing it is. The EPA claims
victory in cleaning up the mines, but geologists point out that tectonic
activity and erosion liberate and transport millions of cubic yards of
asbestos. The BLM says the area is closed, but motorcycle clubs still
trespass. Some people say that the local asbestos isn't dangerous because it's
fluffier/shorter/longer/curlier than others that are dangerous. Rural people
say the closure is a coastal, liberal conspiracy. Complete opposite opinions
are expressed in apparently respectable peer-reviewed scientific journals.

I don't know what to believe. Maybe the rednecks are right, it's a perfectly
good place to tear it up on your dirt bike. Or maybe it's insanely dangerous,
and the uncertainty is caused by industry disinformation campaigns. Who knows.

~~~
debt
That's interesting. I stopped at a McDonald's very near Coalinga* and on the
take out window it read verbatim:

"Chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer, or birth defects
or other reproductive harm may be present in foods or beverages sold or served
here.

Such chemicals are also present in this area and in consumer products and
other items sold, provided, and used here."

And wondered why this was on window. Now I know. Still decent cheeseburger
though I don't care.

*[https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Coalinga,+CA/McDonald's,+275...](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Coalinga,+CA/McDonald's,+27513+Ward+Dr,+Kettleman+City,+CA+93239/)

~~~
morkfromork
Pretty much every building in California has those warnings. Cars sold in
California have a sticker on the driver window with that warning.

~~~
debt
Ha, that's weird, I guess I've noticed them before.

~~~
thrownaway2424
Yeah, it's a warning that was passed by ballot initiative. If the initiative
had said "Warning: this building is known to contain body thetans" then they'd
have to print that on the sign. Welcome to California.

~~~
jacobwil
As a non-CA resident I've benefitted from these stickers. One time I was given
a bar set which included a shaker which had a sticker on it that said
something along the lines of "This product contains lead paint which the state
of California has found to be hazardous…"

~~~
thaumasiotes
It goes farther. Every single cable (USB, HDMI, ethernet... that kind of
cable) you buy will come with the same label "this product contains lead, a
chemical known to the state of California to cause birth defects etc etc etc".
It might have more of an effect if there were any cables that didn't come with
the warning.

~~~
jrabone
Presumably not ones assembled with lead-free solder? (not that the plastics
are likely much safer by Californian standards, but still)

~~~
Serow225
It's not usually the solder, often the rubber in the cable contains some white
lead.

------
oska
Australia, which was a big miner and user of asbestos, has the highest per
capita rate of new mesothelioma cases in the world and it is still rising.
These new diagnoses are considered the 'third wave' of casualties. First wave
was the miners, second wave were people who worked directly with the material,
and the third wave are people with incidental exposure - DIYers, women who
washed their husbands' clothes etc. [1]

Bans on the use of asbestos began in Australia in 1967 and the material was
finally fully banned in the country in 2003. [2]

[1] [http://www.theage.com.au/national/still-breathing-the-
devils...](http://www.theage.com.au/national/still-breathing-the-devils-
dust-20130618-2ogk9.html)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos#Australia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos#Australia)

------
darksim905
What a fascinating article. I think everyone in my age group should read this
as a lot of people don't really know the history behind asbestos & why it's so
bad. It's just not discussed.

~~~
shirro
It was very topical when I grew up. Manly because there was a very poorly run
mine in my country which turned out to be probably our worst industrial
disaster. There were a lot of victims claiming compensation and it entered
into popular culture through music such as Midnight Oil's "Blue Sky Mining
Company" and books.

[http://www.asbestosdiseases.org.au/the-wittenoom-
tragedy.htm...](http://www.asbestosdiseases.org.au/the-wittenoom-tragedy.html)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LDoI7H1Gc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LDoI7H1Gc)

The dangers of asbestos had been known for some time but it took a long time
for public health to catch up and like tobacco and leaded fuel, the industry
worked hard to deny the problem.

I expect the risks from occupational exposure have dropped a lot with
replacement products and special handling and safety gear. I have seen
suggestions that the next wave of victims would be DIY home renovators.

------
ercu
I wish i wanted anything else to happen. Yesterday i thought, if anything
about mesothelioma would be on top news in hn ever, as my mother diagnosed
with mesothelioma stage 1 last month, however no cure exists for now unlike
other cancer types with the same stage. Everyday i'm searching google if any
curative treatments/clinical trials started in the last 24h. We think she has
exposed to aspestos from paintings of the house wall in her village, as it was
spread to use "white lime" for that purpose.

------
frik

      Fibre cement is a composite building and construction 
      material, used mainly in roofing and facade products 
      because of its strength, durability and fire-resistance.
    
      Invented in the late 19th century by the Austrian Ludwig 
      Hatschek. Principally he mixed 90% cement and 10% 
      asbestos fibres with water and ran it through a cardboard 
      machine.
    

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre_cement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre_cement)

Many factory workers, roofer, etc. died of cancer or will die in future :(

Many houses in central Europe and elsewhere have fibre cement roofing made of
asbestos. Since ca. 1990 all fibre cement shingles are 100% asbestos free.

------
SixSigma
They are still building with it in Goa. When I was there the "Environment
Minister" of Goa was saying it was anti-indian people in the West saying it
was posion

~~~
makomk
I wonder - to what extent was his opinion based on the PR campaigns a few
years by the Canadian government aimed at convincing countries like India to
buy their asbestos?

~~~
SixSigma
Not much, I expect; they mine it in Goa too.

With my experience of Indian life, I wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if
the Environment Minister owned the mine.

------
sheltgor
At the University of Washington dorms, the older ones at least, there are
still exposed pipe coverings with asbestos fibers and a big fat warning
sticker saying to avoid creating dust... I imagine it'll be a nightmare when
they finally tear them down.

~~~
chiph
Asbestos abatement is pretty much a solved problem now. Which doesn't make it
any easier or cheaper. The workers basically seal off the area with plastic
sheets (tightly taped at the edges), suit up with respirators, and double-bag
anything they remove.

Like the sign says - as long as you leave it alone, it won't create dust.
Especially if it's been painted at some time, to seal the surface. So no
Frisbee in the halls..

------
chippy1337
This article talks about asbestos being identified as carcinogenic in the
1920's, but the ancient Greeks knew not to buy slaves from the asbestos mines.

~~~
SixSigma
But I bet they didn't diagnose it as "cancer", just "will die soon"

~~~
vidarh
Are you sure? The word cancer comes from Greek - Hippocrates named it
Karkinos, which was translated into the latin cancer a few hundred years
later. The name explicitly comes from the appearance of a cancerous tumour.

------
steven2012
Asbestos dust is certainly a terrible thing to breathe in, but I think there's
a lot of over-hype on the dangers of asbestos. I worked closely with
contractors last year, and they all said the same thing, that asbestos fears
were largely overblown.

The government and real estate agents treat it as if it's nuclear waste, but
being around asbestos isn't guaranteed to give you lung cancer. It's only when
you create a dust from it by grinding it, and if it gets airborne. There are
main mitigation techniques that can control asbestos pretty easily. Having it
in your house isn't terrible as long as you deal with it properly.

~~~
femto
It seems to kill people randomly.

A family member used to work for a company that produced asbestos cement
products. I can still remember touring the factory as a child: the grinding
machines shaping the pipe couplings, standing on top of the dust collector as
it was being emptied, the sealed room at the beginning of the production line
into which the raw asbestos was being blown. (I only looked through the glass
door of that one, though I gather it wasn't unknown for people to be locked in
there for a joke, whilst workmates enjoyed the "snow show".)

Yet, for that, some people who worked at the company are still healthy (and
being regularly monitored), whilst others are dead from mesothelioma. It's as
if some people are susceptible, whilst others aren't, and size of dose isn't
the overriding factor.

I don't think it's overblown, in that people do die (unpleasantly) from
minimal exposure to asbestos. Perhaps that's why asbestos is treated so
gingerly: to some people it is as dangerous as nuclear waste and we don't know
who those people are?

\--- Edit: final question mark.

~~~
logicchains
Sounds like smoking. Some smokers still manage to live healthy lives into
their 90s, but the majority don't. I wonder what the exact numbers are for
mesothelioma.

