
Saudi Arabia implements electronic tracking system for women - manuletroll
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/22/saudi-arabia-implements-electronic-tracking-system-for-women/
======
kamaal
Religious extremism can be very convincing when you are into it. The problem
is very similar to the editor religion. Unless you are shown the other part of
the world you may never realize the futility of your ideology and actions.

Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy, frankly speaking the monarchy should/would have
collapsed long time back if not the for the systematic information control and
low ball offers made by the royal family to the citizens. The Saudi Regime
survives on creating a useless welfare state, fueling religious passion and
creating things like the religious police, and then of course providing some
good facilities at the Islamic holy sites.

What they provide to the their citizens is actually nothing in front of what
they steal. The current king abdullah's father had some tens of wives, from
which he had tens of kids. The family's strength is well placed at some 15,000
members currently. They are almost growing at a near exponential rate. The
problem is each member of the family sort of demands a share of the pie, and
its quite well known that much of wealth of the nation is shared among the
members of the Saud Family. With so many thousands of them being present, to
prevent a break down and rebellion among family members, most government high
posts, money making job positions, contracts and anything of financial
significance always goes to the saud family members.

The family also has very close ties to a religious family called Al-Sheik. And
they often marry among each other to preserve their trust and dependency on
each other. Apart from that it is believed, the saud family members also marry
among other clans and tribes to keep them in picture too.

The common masses, are well made to believe they are living under a generous
king whose duties extend beyond that of state matters and also include doing
the holy work of god.

~~~
gokhan
> _Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy, frankly speaking the monarchy should/would have
> collapsed long time back if not the for the systematic information control
> and low ball offers made by the royal family to the citizens._

Don't forget unquestioned support from western governments.

~~~
tokenadult
_Don't forget unquestioned support from western governments._

The support has not always been "unquestioned." Trade and normal diplomatic
relations with the Saudi monarchy has never implied agreement with its
position on Jewish settlement in Israel, for example. The 1975 cover article
in Harper's magazine "Seizing Arab Oil" by "Miles Ignotus" (Latin for "unknown
soldier," a pen name for a State Deparatment official who later was revealed
to be Henry Kissinger) was part of a public warning to Saudi Arabia that it
couldn't do just whatever it pleased and still expect the normal give-and-take
of friendly diplomatic relations.

[http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Document-reveals-
Nixo...](http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Document-reveals-Nixon-plan-
to-seize-Arab-oil-2818821.php)

Saudi Arabia hasn't been invaded, while Iraq has,

<http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2003/03/thirty-year-itch>

mostly because the national regime there balances its interests and desires
with the interests and desires of other national governments that have the
power to seize its source of national power: low-cost petroleum production.
The domestic policies of Saudi Arabia look horrifically backward to me, but
they are changing,

[http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-paris-
hilton-...](http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-paris-hilton-saudi-
arabia-20121121,0,4764554.story)

and pushing for more liberalization more of the time is something that Western
countries increasingly see as an expedient thing to do with other countries
(and themselves!) as the world grows smaller and more interconnected.

------
mtgx
"Women under male custody". Wow. I hadn't realized Saudi Arabia is so
primitive. If the US Government is going to send them billions in aid (to buy
weapons from US companies, and therefor indirectly subsidize them), can't it
influence some of these decisions? Or does it prefer it when it's run by
dictators?

~~~
arjunnarayan
The United States sends them billions of dollars worth of arms, surveillance
tech and other tools to oppress the Saudi populace. It does this (and has done
this for many decades now) in order to keep the oil flowing.

In other words, it props up an illegitimate dictatorial family, and in turn
they keep the oil flowing at a fairly stable and cheap price.

And now you wonder why young Sauds who are oppressed by this situation hate
the United States? The people's oil is taken out of the ground by an
illegitimate government propped up by the people who buy the oil at what they
perceive to be below the fair price.

Make no mistake, the source of the problem is the United States.

~~~
Turing_Machine
_Make no mistake, the source of the problem is the United States._

Yes, you're quite right. There was absolutely no oppression of women in the
region before the United States came on the scene, or before oil was
discovered there.

(sarcasm, in case it's not clear)

~~~
pvarangot
The US backed militant jihadists when a movement usually known as "arab
nationalism" was thriving in the region and had vast popular support. Arab
nationalism was against current foreign policy of Saudi Arabia and was in fact
pretty secular and very progressive for its time. The US didn't want them
because "it waz teh commiez".

I thought that was a widely known fact... that was the time when the US backed
the Taliban/Bin Laden, they actually made Rambo III about it.

So, actually, yes, I think there would most certainly be less oppression of
woman if the US had backed out from middle east in the 70s. I think almost
every serious historian/sociologist or layperson who knows about politics in
that region would agree with me, I've actually spoke to many who do, even
sociologists that study Islam and Middle East with CIA grants. What they
definitely don't agree with me is basically how much what they call "political
stability" in that region is worth.

TL, DR; Yes, I think if the US had backed out in the past there would be less
oppression of woman. I think "the US" also thinks it, but they just don't care
and want a stable regime so that oil prices don't fluctuate chaotically due to
heavy speculation.

EDIT: Got four e-mails about this... If someone wants references, I was just
compiling some but realized that Chapter 2 of Perilous Power by Chomsky/Achcar
is most likely the best place to start. So sorry, no Wikipedia or newspaper
article that accurately portrays what I'm trying to explain as an undisputed
fact... get used to reading and debating a lot if you want to get into Middle
East politics.

~~~
natural219
This is a very solid and informative post. If you're interested about this
period of history, I recommend reading "Thicker than Oil" by Rachel Bronson, a
book which documents the U.S. - Saudi relationship during the 20th century. It
covers all of these events and more.

Edit -- to clarify further, the OP was referring to the split in the Islamic
world in the 60s-70s between traditional Saudi leadership (favoring strong
religious fundamentalism) and a new, mostly secular movement termed Pan-
Arabism or Arab Nationalism. Since the Pan-Arabists were usually more
favorable to Soviet influence, we naturally supported the Saudis and actually
fostered several initiatives to increase religious fervor & fundamentalism.

~~~
pooriaazimi
The sad story of modern Afghanistan (late 70's through 2001) might be also of
interest to those who want to know more:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(1978–presen...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_\(1978–present\))

If it wasn't for the damn Cold War, probably today Afghanistan would probably
be more developed than Iran... :(

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jpatokal
Oddly enough, this represents progress of a sort. Until fairly recently, Saudi
women did not have identity numbers or cards, effectively meaning that they
could be murdered by relatives with no repercussions.

<http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/burton022005.html>

~~~
Wingman4l7
Chilling.

------
ChrisNorstrom
I always thought that advancing technology would move humanity towards freedom
from oppression. Turns out, the oppressors simply adjusted their tactics to
use technology against freedom.

This just made me realize: 1) a tool's just a tool, no matter how immaculate.
2) Never trust the user. 3) Don't give concentrated power to one group of
people. 4) Beware the 1st rule of nature & evolution: The aggressive will
dominate the passive.

~~~
ZoFreX
"To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven; the same key opens the
gates of hell." - Buddhist proverb, via Richard Feynman

------
jmedwards
I'm trying to remember that quotation I've stolen and hatcheted this from:

Bombs and tanks don't scare these folks, but a girl with a book does.

~~~
Tipzntrix
This was when the Pakistani girl was shot for displaying "Western beliefs" by
going to school

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jschuur
Some additional information on this, including how the system has been in
place since 2010, with the recent change being that you're now (somehow)
getting text messages without registering your mobile number:

<http://riyadhbureau.com/blog/2012/11/saudi-women-tracking>

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nova
That's truly horrible.

I'm glad that our civilized governments would avoid such blatant sexism and
instead mandate electronic tracking for all citizens, irrespective of gender.
For our protection.

------
mcantelon
Note that the US and Canada governments, despite their posturing about the
Taliban's abuse of women, are very friendly with Saudi Arabia.

------
saljam
I don't really see the point of this, given that women and non-adults can't
cross a border anyway without a signed permit from their father or husband.
I'm guessing this text message system works for children too.

~~~
shinratdr
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4821675>

------
surrealize
As an onion headline, it would have been hilarious. As a real story, it's
scary as hell.

------
pknerd
Most Probably Saudi government will not need to come up with such steps like
US government to safegaud American women?

[http://www.womenshealth.gov/violence-against-women/types-
of-...](http://www.womenshealth.gov/violence-against-women/types-of-
violence/sexual-assault-and-abuse.cfm)

------
axyjo
Other countries in the area have had this for a while. For example, the United
Arab Emirates sends out text messages when any dependant enters or leaves the
country.

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jasonlingx
"Electronic tracking system for women"? You mean passports?

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mnemonicsloth
Obviously this is because so many Saudi women are ninjas.

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skeltoac
Is anyone in San Antonio planning to print this article and hand it to the
principals of John Jay High School and Jay Science & Engineering Academy?

------
jamesbrennan
This is such a disappointing use of technology.

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namank
How are they tracking the women? Phones?

Sounds like the couple that got the text wasn't even aware of the service to
begin with.

~~~
saljam
No, it's nowhere near as high tech as the article makes it sound. In contrast
to how it works in the UK for example, in Saudi Arabia you have to go through
passport control whenever you leave the country. This new system checks if the
person leaving is a child or a woman and texts their father's or husband's
phone number if they have it registered. They can find that information
because it's all part of the ID system that's been implemented for decades.

------
uzair88
I can't make up my mind what's worse...KSA tracking women or France telling
them what they can and can't wear

~~~
astrobe_
This is a ludicrous distortion of facts. French law _only forbid_ some kind of
dressing. Furthermore, it was done in the name of women's rights and dignity,
pretty much the opposite of KSA.

------
alan_cx
So, from a story about tracking kids in a US school to tracking women in
Saudi. See where this leads?

------
Mordor
They should pass laws to emancipate dogs in the West - your move Saudi.

------
ramgorur
Just wondering could these people make a single tracking device of their own.

~~~
PedroBatista
I just love the supreme amount of xenophobia an arrogance packed in the
expression "these people".

~~~
ramgorur
yes, you got it almost right, but my above comment does not actually involve
any "xenophobism" or "arrogance", rather it is "disgust". I am not arab, but
somewhat closely related.

I was just wondering when children are dying in a place that is not very far
from their main land, but their goverment is busy tagging their women -- I
think they should focus on more "important" issue. Hope you got my point.

~~~
pooriaazimi
And I hope you understand that throughout the history, there have been very
few occasions that a government has done what its people wanted. Usually they
either oppress them, or "fool" them.

KSA isn't very kind to political offenders. They behead them in the public
(with a sword!). So you'll excuse them (Arabs) if they're a little less eager
to rebel against extremely rich and powerful Saudies than we'd like...

 _(I'm not saying that there's a shortage of thick-headed, stupid, overly-
religious arabs in KSA. Such stupid people are everywhere, even in best parts
of Europe. But they're not a true representative of "Arabs", in general)._

