
The Hardest Woods - shawndumas
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/top-ten-hardest-woods/
======
cyberferret
I built an acoustic guitar a couple of years ago. The wood I chose for the
fretboard was Gidgee. Boy, by the time I had shaped and sanded the radius and
hand cut the fret slots in, my (desk bound software developer) arms were non
functional to the extent I couldn’t even hold my phone up to my ears to make a
call!

It was only after the fact that the head luthier told me that Gidgee was one
of the hardest woods around, and that sanding the radius into the wood was
akin to sanding set concrete.

~~~
pvaldes
Acacia produce several chemical defenses. The dust of many species of fabaceae
is poisonous if inhalated. Acacia is probably in that group also. All the
plant is poisonous, specially the seeds.

Maybe, and I'm saying maybe, you weren't just tired.

~~~
strainer
Substances which can poison at certain concentrations are common in plants and
even in crops, but animals are evolved to tolerate appropriate amounts with no
detectable lasting effects. Consider most or all medicinal substances - very
often first discovered in plants - can poison at wrong dosage.

Without any specific references to inform your warning, I suspect that you
have mistaken benign concentrations of ubiquitous substances - plant alkaloids
perhaps, as general hazard to health.

~~~
thfuran
And many plants are poisonous at readily-achievable accidental exposure
levels. So without any specific references to inform your dismissal, I suspect
that you have mistaken specific cases for a general truth.

~~~
strainer
> And many plants are poisonous at readily-achievable accidental exposure
> levels.

Of course because there are many _many_ plants.

The wood Gidgee - which "maybe maybe" poisoned someone in an afternoons
exposure - is not known to be "poisonous" to the wood-database:

"Allergies/Toxicity: Besides the standard health risks associated with any
type of wood dust, no further health reactions have been associated with
Gidgee. See the articles Wood Allergies and Toxicity and Wood Dust Safety for
more information."

[https://www.wood-database.com/gidgee/](https://www.wood-database.com/gidgee/)

~~~
pvaldes
Acacia is not an easy genus, even for specialists. There are around a thousand
species worldwide.

Wood-Database talks about 'Gidgee wood' as a product of two species of Acacia:
The Stinking Gidgee (Acacia cambedesi) and The western Gidgee (Acacia
pruinocarpa).

I couldn't find a mention to the third, closely related and similar Georgina
Gidgee (Acacia georginae) naturalised in US, and also known as the poisonous
Gidgee. Creates a product very toxic for mammals, small and big, to the point
to be sold as rodent poison. Just a few mouthfuls of leaves can kill cattle. I
don't know if the compound is stored in the wood (probably not, or we would
know it).

Leaves of Acacia often contain Cyanide. Bark can contain Tanines and also
alcaloids like DMT, according to the species.

~~~
strainer
Apple seeds contain cyanide - many plants do. Perfectly healthy levels of
tannins are in loads of food. DMT is produced in every living animal,
alkaloids are present in every potato and tomato. We know not to eat tomato
vines - you're concerned someone noticeably poisoned themselves from
milligrams of wood dust inhalation with sweeping associations in mind. Its a
flight of fancy.

I believe it is advisable though to avoid breathing much of any kind of dust,
wood, graphite, talc, stone.. by avoiding breathing any where possible.

~~~
pvaldes
The fact that many plants were selected for hundreds of years to be more
edible that their wild counterparts does not make Acacia more edible in any
way.

I don't know if inhalating Acacia wood dust could produce the strange effect
of not being able to hold a telephone in your hands for a while, but I'm
certainly sure that is a genus that evolved to use fearsome chemicals.
Georgina Gidgee mess with the Krebs cycle that provides energy to the cells.

My advise is still the same. Take this in mind if you want to manipulate it,
and don't understimate its potential to harm you, even at sublethal doses. If
you start experimenting strange sensations when you do some exotic wood work
in your batcave at the basement, stop, quit the area and open the windows if
you don't have an air extractor.

Even if you trust the provider botanical skills and think that they never
would give you a similar and cheaper species of wood by accident.

~~~
strainer
Its not that strange to have exhausted hands after some hard craftwork ;)

------
sitkack
In Borneo, the much sought after Ironwood is on the path to extinction. It
grows so slowly, 0.5 cm per year, that it isn't replanted after harvesting
(poaching). The most sought after trees are hundreds of years old.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusideroxylon_zwageri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusideroxylon_zwageri)

~~~
nathancahill
Interesting. We have a different ironwood in northern Mexico, _Olneya tesota_.
They are tiny in comparison, only used for little wood carvings.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olneya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olneya)

------
gweinberg
At the other end of the scale are the 10 softest woods [https://www.wood-
database.com/wood-articles/top-ten-softest-...](https://www.wood-
database.com/wood-articles/top-ten-softest-woods/)

------
opwieurposiu
Lignum Vitae has a self-lubricating resin that makes it perfect for
hydroelectic turbine bearings.
[https://www.hydroworld.com/articles/hr/print/volume-32/issue...](https://www.hydroworld.com/articles/hr/print/volume-32/issue-4/cover-
story/bearings---seals--wood-makes-a-comeback-for-hydroelectric-turbin.html)

------
chrisweekly
Shackleton's _Endurance_ was one of the strongest ships ever built, thanks in
part to its being sheathed in "greenheart"[1] which is pretty remarkable
stuff.

1\.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorocardium_rodiei](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorocardium_rodiei)

Edit to note: apparently greenheart isn't quite as high on the Janka hardness
scale as the top 10 listed in the OP's link, but its near-imperviousness to
the harsh arctic marine environment still makes it an amazing natural
material.

~~~
halbritt
Marine lumber generally isn't selected for hardness. Generally speaking, rot
resistance is the most desirable characteristic. Apparently greenheart is
superior to most other wood in this regard. Teak has traditionally been used
for this reason as well, but is getting expensive. Black locust is starting to
become popular as well.

Apparently greenheart is relatively rare and prone to exploding when milling,
however.

~~~
I_complete_me
I'm open to correction on this but as far as I recall, the timber used to
support some of the buildings in Venice is alder -- a relatively weak wood but
with good rot resistance.

------
pubby
Here's an interesting read on wood hardness:
[http://www.woodgears.ca/hardness_test/](http://www.woodgears.ca/hardness_test/)

It's pretty amazing how much variability there is between samples of the same
species.

------
emmanueloga_
TIL! The word "Quebracho" is commonly used in slang in Argentina (it is also
the name of a political group), but it never occurred to me (!) the connection
with "Quebrar Hacha" (break-axe).

As with other natural resources of Latin America, it was subject to
exploitation from developed countries [2], causing harm to Native American
people and the ecosystem.

In the book "The open veins of Latin America", Galeano explains the
interesting fact that the current poorest areas of Latin America are the ones
that used to be richer in natural resources, including "the devastated
quebracho forests of northern Argentina and Paraguay".

1:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebracho_(group)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebracho_\(group\))

2:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebracho_tree#Quebracho_explo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebracho_tree#Quebracho_exploitation)

3:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Veins_of_Latin_America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Veins_of_Latin_America)

------
vichu
This reminded me of a YouTube channel where a maker crafts knives out of
various substances (including one made from Lignum Vitae [0]). He recently
began measuring the Mohs' hardness of the different knives he makes - though
I'm not sure exactly at which video that starts.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKH63_r0OCA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKH63_r0OCA)

------
newsbinator
Hardest listed =

Quebracho

4,570 lbf (20,340 N)

From the Spanish “quebrar hacha,” which literally means “axe breaker.” Aptly
named, wood in the Schinopsis genus is among the heaviest and hardest in the
world.

------
msds
I've been doing a little wood turning lately, and have developed a deep love
of exotic hardwoods. Such a guilty pleasure... Really good ebony is an amazing
material to work with.

Wood Database is a godsend for getting quality information on interesting
woods, but trying to verify a vendor's claims about the identity and source of
any given wood is hard!

~~~
module0000
I once did tech-type work for a lumber importer in the US. They were between
#5 and #1 in terms of market share - ie they were big and all of us have
likely bought lumber sourced from them at some point up the chain.

One of the more interesting aspects of the business I learned there involved
customs, ports of origin, and bribes. The difference between sustainable
and/or organically sourced lumber has nothing to do with the lumber itself:
it's about the bribe to the harbormaster. Can't get customs to release your
barges of Russian birch? No problem, pay him/her enough and it's stamped as
whatever you like it to be. You mentioned it was hard to verify the vendor's
claims about the identity and source of a given wood, and that old job came to
mind. I imagine in the supply chain, once far enough down, the vendor might
genuinely believe they are selling you wood XYZ, because the wholesaler told
them it was XYZ...but in reality, it all goes back to whatever they paid the
harbormaster to stamp the export as.

PS: It's not that the harbormaster is the kingpin in this corruption. They are
more like pawns...it was always presented to me as "the way business is done,
since way back, everywhere". Just seems to be an accepted bit of dishonesty
that everyone involved participates in and tolerates to a degree.

edit: typos

------
Isamu
Hey, thanks for sharing this - I thought for sure Lignum Vitae would be #1.
There are a few I have never heard of - goes to show how antiquated my
knowledge is. I guess a global market provides new substitutes as some
hardwoods become endangered or expensive.

------
Salamat
I visited abkhazia and was told they have wood that is very hard it does not
float in water. Could not verify that.

~~~
eco
Yeah, Lignum Vitae doesn't float. This Old House has a clip showing this off.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI39sMIy6mE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI39sMIy6mE)

------
dandare
No hardwood trees are native Europe? Interesting.

------
bennettfeely
Do they float?

~~~
larkeith
Cebil, the lightest, weighs 1,025 kg/m^3, so no.

~~~
jacquesm
Just hollow it out and it will float just fine!

------
puranjay
Slight aside, but I love websites like these. They're so reminiscent of the
"old" internet. Not filled with ads, pop-ups, and two dozen prompts asking for
my email. Loads fast, has useful information, and isn't trying to "game" the
search engines with bloated pages.

~~~
tech2
You mean something like this:
[https://i.imgur.com/EoNd3ev.gifv](https://i.imgur.com/EoNd3ev.gifv)

I hate the ones that have permanent non-scrolling header/footer (title and
social media buttons generally) taking up a significant fraction of my phone's
screen.

~~~
Memosyne
Why do some designers think this is optimal?

~~~
fermienrico
I really think that most designers have poor understanding of the confluence
of creativity + functionalism + user needs. For every great designer, there
are many who do not understand this balance. Combine that with trying to be
trendy, aesthetic, flashy in addition to business/marketing objectives (ads,
tracking, GDPR); you end up with a design enchilada as exemplified by the GP's
link.

Does anyone remember Go's rebranding? [https://blog.golang.org/go-
brand](https://blog.golang.org/go-brand)

Compare that with boring but highly functional Rust Lang's home page and their
branding: [https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/](https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/)

Or even better, check MPFR's page:
[https://www.mpfr.org/](https://www.mpfr.org/)

No bullshit, just content. I might be a minority, but to me aesthetics are not
as important as the rest of the public values. Aesthetic aspects of design
should follow and not lead in Design. Most people write this off as "non-
designey" opinion who doesn't understand design which is not true. I think the
Swiss in 1960's nailed aesthetics that don't get in the way, especially in
layout (Muller-Brockmann) and typography (Frutiger).

These days, in design colleges we have this insane push for retro aesthetics
(Brutalism, Vaporware, etc), trying to keep up with current trends as well as
increasing pressure for originality. This leads designers to create
substandard work in favor of originality. As Paul Rand said, "Don't try to be
original. Just try to be good." \- This sadly does not work when you're wired
to do something different for your senior project as a designer. Designers
graduate and create noise thereafter.

Furthermore, some of the burden of bad design should also be carried by the
expectations from clients. It is not just about designers.

Edit: I just realized, I apologize how off-topic this discussion is to the
original post.

~~~
RoboticWater
Form _is_ function in a visual medium. If I can't easily parse the information
in front of me, then the content is useless; my eyes will just glaze over.
That's why we have design in the first place.

I can't stand MPFR's page. There's very little visual hierarchy, so if I go to
the page, I have to look through all the text to find anything specific. For a
library like this, a big, colored download button would just make everyone's
life easier. And it's a small thing, but why put the introduction third, so I
have to scroll to see it? Just put a short tag line up top so I know what I'm
looking at.

I get the desire to have content, and I agree that modern trends often go too
far the other direction, but there is such a thing as fetishizing blandness.
It's just a chore to read.

And what exactly is wrong with the Go rebranding? They haven't even changed
the website, so I don't even know what your criticism is other than "I don't
like modern, sleek logos and typefaces." Because otherwise, Rust and the Go
update have basically the same info design (modern type, single tag line, high
contrast, etc.).

Also, since when have colleges been teaching Vaporwave? Isn't Vaporwave
largely a meme? I don't really see it manifesting in any design trends beyond
that domain.

------
aylmao
For a minute I thought it said "The Hardest Words" and was quite confused
reading through it.

