
Feeding cows seaweed cuts 99% of greenhouse gas emissions from their burps - Tomte
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/cows-seaweed-methane-burps-cut-greenhouse-gas-emissions-climate-change-research-a8368911.html
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HillaryBriss
An earlier HN post about the same topic:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17036221](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17036221)

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avar
This is a perfect example of why "sin taxes" like the proposed tax on
meat[1][2] to fight climate change are a bad idea.

You need to tax the externality (greenhouse gas emissions), not an activity
which currently causes such emissions, because then you don't have any
incentives left (such as in this case) for industries to reduce those
emissions.

1\. [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/11/meat-
tax...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/11/meat-tax-
inevitable-to-beat-climate-and-health-crises-says-report)

2\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_tax)

~~~
jakobegger
Some externalities are hard to tax. For example, consumption of red meat
probably increases cancer risk [1]. We can't introduce a tax on cancer, but we
still want to reduce the occurrence of cancer, so all that's left is taxing
red meat.

[1]: [http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-
meat/en/](http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/)

~~~
freedomben
What about letting people make their own choices without trying to social
engineer them, which is essentially forcing our values onto them?

~~~
msg
"But temperance also can be created by coercion. Taxing is a good coercive
device. To keep downtown shoppers temperate in their use of parking space we
introduce parking meters for short periods, and traffic fines for longer ones.
We need not actually forbid a citizen to park as long as he wants to; we need
merely make it increasingly expensive for him to do so. Not prohibition, but
carefully biased options are what we offer him. A Madison Avenue man might
call this persuasion; I prefer the greater candor of the word coercion."

\-- The Tragedy of the Commons

I recommend the whole paper as a good think on the unintended consequences of
not biasing the options of people away from collective irresponsibility.

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dpflan
Nice, so we should just farm manatees? :)

Joking aside, for the more curious, the article mentions work by Australian
scientists exploring the idea in 2015: _The red macroalgae Asparagopsis
taxiformis is a potent natural antimethanogenic that reduces methane
production during in vitro fermentation with rumen fluid_

>
> [http://www.publish.csiro.au/an/AN15576](http://www.publish.csiro.au/an/AN15576)

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darawk
I've been seeing this same story for what feels like a decade now. Anyone know
why this hasn't been implemented yet?

~~~
asdff
>Anyone know why this hasn't been implemented yet?

The same story for anything. The market pressure to precipitate this change
isn't there yet.

~~~
darawk
Is that really true though? There's plenty of market pressure for green
products generally. If you could label your meat as being "low emission" or
something, I think a lot of consumers would prefer that. I certainly would.

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hsnewman
So the clarification is "from their burps". What does it do to the greenhouse
gas emissions from their farts?

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gameswithgo
or getting the seaweed there, or growing enough seaweed

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SwellJoe
Growing and delivering the seaweed is among the smallest problems to solve.
The animal agriculture industry already involves growing and shipping billions
of pounds of feed. This is just a different type of feed, and it is seemingly
only needed in tiny quantities, so it will be dwarfed by other expenses
related to raising cattle for consumption.

The only thing missing is a profit motive...without taxes and regulations that
internalize those external environmental costs, there's no motivation for
cattle producers to add even this small cost.

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graeme
What happens to the molecules that would have become methane: what do they
become instead?

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gniv
Methane is just CH4. I suspect it's not produced anymore on the partial-
seaweed diet.

~~~
pygy_
But it then it is diverted to other pathways. It could become meat, milk, or
manure.

I don't think there's a lot of aerobic activity going on in the rumen, so at
least we know that it isn't immediately turned into CO2 (even if that would
have been a win, methane is 10 times worse a greenhouse gas).

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abraae
Really interesting, and potentially highly relevant to New Zealand where our
many cows and sheep make up about a third of our emissions. Since cows produce
quite variable emissions it sounds quite credible that some out of the box
thinking like feeding seaweed could actually work in cutting emissions.

> ([https://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/science/greenhouse-
> gases/...](https://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/science/greenhouse-
> gases/agricultural-greenhouse-gases/methane-emissions)): Measurements of
> methane emission rates on sheep and dairy cows have repeatedly shown that
> the variability of emissions between individual animals is large (e.g. for
> young sheep grazing the same pasture, emission rates varied from 9 to 35
> g/day per sheep). While this variability may one day be exploited to reduce
> methane release by selecting for low-emitting animals, it is not well
> understood.

~~~
LoSboccacc
this news has made the run once a year since I was in high school

[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257589662_Methane_p...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257589662_Methane_production_and_theoretical_consumption_in_UK_livestock_production_Is_a_realistic_balance_possible)

so there's something to it that doesn't add up. either the economics of
producing enough algae make it infeasible, or other factors come into play
like milk/meat taste or even what to do with pastures if they aren't used for
pasturing, it's not like you can grow stuff there.

~~~
asdff
Basic economics. There's no reason why farmers should switch to more expensive
feed even if its better for the environment or cows. At least near term they
will end up selling the same meat for a higher price to compensate for the
feed, will sell less meat due to the price, ultimately hurting profits, and
the plan will be scorned until it's abandoned. It doesn't even matter that
seaweed is cheap and resource-light to farm, nor does it matter that only a
small amount of this compound needs to be put in the feed. Shareholders will
not tolerate more overhead unless forced.

This is the perfect place for government action to incentivize switching to
this kind of feed, be it subsidy or tax break. Pollution is sadly profitable,
and corporations need to be either fined for polluting or incentivized for
reducing pollution; shareholders rarely see beyond quarterly profits, let
alone the great economic consequences of pollution a century down the line.

~~~
abraae
Perhaps this is why we might lose the battle on climate change. Its the
ultimate tragedy of the commons and we are genuinely all in it together.

It takes not government action, but global action. Why would producers in e.g.
Germany put up with a carbon tax (or a methane tax) if producers in the US
have their fingers in their ears, denying that climate change is a thing at
all?

I believe the only way action will ever happen is if a global enforcement
agency imposes environmental taxes on the world and backs it up with force.
Its hard to even imagine what the world would look like as something like that
comes to pass.

At the same time its a good thing to be preparing some solutions, e.g. carbon
capture, seaweed eating cows. Just in case the world comes to its senses and
decides to actually deploy/enforce said solutions.

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jtwebman
Unless we start farming seaweed not sure how we can feed all the cows we eat
seaweed.

~~~
sp332
_To produce feed that the cows enjoy, the researchers cut a small amount of
red seaweed with cattle feed and molasses._

You only need to add a little seaweed to the cows' regular food.

~~~
jtwebman
Yep and I guess if it is only California dairy cows then that wouldn't be a
lot either. Time to think about farming seaweed :)

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noetic_techy
But does it change the taste of the meat? This is the real question and a deal
breaker for many.

Grass fed meat is gamy than grain fed/finished, so I can imagine seaweed
imparts an fishy taste to the fat and probably to the milk also.

~~~
poulsbohemian
Taste was my first thought as well, but rather than fishy, I would think if
anything it might almost act as a tenderizer, adding natural sodium and umami
to the meat. That does assume that the cows are eating it in a quantity where
it makes any difference, but if yellow flowers can change the color of the
milk, I don't know why seaweeds wouldn't do _something_ to the taste.

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perfunctory
I am not sure if the word inhumane can be applied to animals but reading about
innovations in meat industry usually makes me sad. I am not advocating that
everybody should become a vegan, but cutting one's meat consumption by let's
say 75% (eat meat every other day and cut your portions in half) shouldn't be
that hard.

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gleenn
IANA Biologist etc, but isn't the problem their gas emissions from the other
end of the cow? Isn't this like some new tech eliminating all the carbon
emissions from using the radio in a car, cool but not the problem?

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liamcardenas
"...90 to 95 percent of the methane released by cows comes out of their
mouths, while 5 to 10 percent is released in the form of manure and
flatulence."

[https://ideas.ted.com/methane-isnt-just-cow-farts-its-
also-c...](https://ideas.ted.com/methane-isnt-just-cow-farts-its-also-cow-
burps-and-other-weird-facts-you-didnt-know-about-this-potent-greenhouse-gas/)

~~~
Skunkleton
I guess farting out of your mouth is a side-effect of having two stomachs.

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TaylorAlexander
Four stomachs!

[https://www2.kenyon.edu/projects/farmschool/food/milkbio.htm](https://www2.kenyon.edu/projects/farmschool/food/milkbio.htm)

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Skunkleton
Today is truly a great day for the expansion of my trivial knowledge!

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radiusvector
This just feels like propaganda from the meat industry. For every bit of
scientific research touting the demerits of industrial-scale farming, the meat
industry is incentivized to fight back.

~~~
matthewmacleod
That's great though! If the action that the "meat industry" takes is action
that reduces its environmental impact, then we win!

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stephenr
Also, we'd get seaweed flavoured beef! Wins all around.

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zwieback
I wonder if it affects the flavor of the milk.

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jayalpha
For sure it does. People in Europe pay a premium for "high mountains cow milk"
("Alpenmilch").

I had the impression that US milk has no taste but always thought it's just in
my mind. But when I was in Colombia I met a guy from Switzerland who studied
in Canada and said:"Oh wow, the milk here really tastes good like in Europe.
Not like in Canada." So the milk in Europe and North America must indeed taste
different. It is not just in my head.

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notable_user
Milk is pasteurized differently in the US vs Europe. I’d bet that has the most
impact on taste.

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zwieback
Are you referring to UHT (shelf-stable) vs. "normal" pasteurization? Both
types are available in the US and Europe but probably to different degrees. In
southern Europe I definitely encountered more UHT than in my native Germany.

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prudhvirajs
Can't a cow just eat what it wants?? Why put it on some superficial diet ?? is
it not equal to saying all humans should eat one type of food to reduce global
warming ?

~~~
tobr
Sorry to break it to you, but we force cows to do all sorts of things they'd
rather not.

