
Are You Concerned Your 4 Year Old Isn’t in a Cool Band? - ryan_j_naughton
http://priceonomics.com/are-you-concerned-your-4-year-old-cool-band/
======
zyxley
The most important part here is probably that they give access to a room full
of instruments, then will use anything that can contribute to a song, even if
it's just two notes alternating on a beat... and get the kids into that before
they know anything at all about playing music "properly".

This seems like a great way to cultivate a life-long creative understanding of
music - "if you can make interesting noise to a beat, that's music, and the
rest is just details and practice".

------
xefer
My wife and I brought my son to a rock band camp in the Boston area. My son
loved it and maybe helped encourage him to still be an amateur musician all
these years later.

At the same time it felt very weird to be seeing rock-n'-roll packaged,
codified and commodified the way it was. At pick-up time you see a bunch of
youngsters mirroring the clothes and attitude of rock culture - while being
loaded into their parents' minivans. I couldn't help feeling a bit uneasy
about the whole thing to be honest.

Back In My Day™ rock was a much more organically rebellious activity.

~~~
ArkyBeagle
"Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform - don't kid yourself." \- Frank
Zappa.

------
mootothemax
_" They put the most distortion on the pink guitars, to subtly encourage the
younger boys to break gender norms."_

I love it!

Seems like a really well thought-out program, albeit - in my eyes - let down
somewhat by an advert that implies it'll have much less depth than it actually
has.

~~~
nandemo
So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender
norm?

~~~
mootothemax
_So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender
norm?_

No, that's not what I'm saying, nor what I believe the program is saying
either.

To my mind, _everyone_ likes fun with distortion, and colouring the relevant
guitars pink helps break down the "pink is for girls" gender norm, nothing
more, nothing less.

Actually, being perfectly honest, I'd never even heard of "boys like
distortion" as a gender norm; _is_ that a thing?

~~~
coldtea
> _I 'd never even heard of "boys like distortion" as a gender norm; is that a
> thing?_

It obviously IS a thing. Check out the predominantly buyers of distortion
pedals, or the near absolute majority of workshippers of "shredding"
guitarists and heavy players. Also check any magazine about those kind of
things, incudings any advertisments of heavy guitar gear, amps and distortion
pedals. You will of course find 2-3 counter-examples. You'd be hard-pressed to
find 10, much less 50.

~~~
DanBC
Are you correcting for low representation of women in those magazines anyway?

~~~
coldtea
Is the low representation based on that publishers of said magazines not
liking women's money [1], or that there aren't enough women players buying
those magazines?

[1] Especially considering that women are the most sought after group by
advertisers/marketeers, even more so than men.

------
golemotron
I read this and thought: there should be some forum like reddit's NotTheOnion
called NotPortlandia for this sort of thing. I went to reddit and discovered
that there was. Shock.

------
onion2k
_You can’t just say “no” to an idea: it’s your responsibility to adapt it._

There's a similar idea at Pixar - it's called 'plussing'. You accept someone
else's point and use it as a starting point to build something amazing.
There's a _really_ worthwhile Randy Nelson talk about it on Youtube:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhXJe8ANws8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhXJe8ANws8)

------
facepalm
Sounds great, actually, if I was living in SF I would sign up my kids
immediately.

------
gbog
the opposite: I would be concerned if my 5 year old kid was pushed by someone
to become a rock musician.

On Earth we only need that many rock stars, and there is already an intense
competition over the only few places available. I know many musicians that
didn't get enough success and have hard time earning food money.

I suspect that a kid whose fate is to become a musician will find a way to
become one. This do not need to be encouraged even only a little. I find it
more responsible to give kids the most "normal" (classic) education, while
keeping doors open for later. It is easier to pivot from postman to writer
(Bukowski) than from pretend rock star to bank teller.

~~~
hluska
Do you understand that this is an extra-curricular activity and not an actual
primary school?

If you understand that point and still balk at a program like this because it
doesn't 'keep enough doors open' (???), I strongly encourage you to readjust
this mindset before you have children. And, if you do have children, I am even
more vehement that you need to change your tune.

Small children deserve to use their imaginations and dream the wildest dreams
imaginable. They deserve this not only because they are little kids and
childhood is brutally short, but also because their brains are highly plastic
and they are rapidly developing cognitive skills that adults take for granted.

Children who are interested in the arts absolutely deserve encouragement
because every single child on earth deserves to be encouraged. Children
deserve to be encouraged to be the best versions of themselves that they can
be.

~~~
gbog
I do encourage imagination, mostly by giving the example. But this means
building weird things with Lego, it doesn't mean pushing babies on a stage
with sunglasses and fake ovations by the parents. In our difficult times
living a happy life most often means living far away from the media and the
society of spectacle. Nothing bothers me more than the exhibitions of those
little prodigy on t.v., it is rewarding for the parents only and steals away
childhood from the kids.

~~~
eropple
I know people who have their kids in this program. It has nothing to do with
prodigy culture or even really about the actual performative aspects in front
of other people--it's about encouraging a love of music and feeling good about
making something. That you're getting salty about it is, to be honest, _kinda
really weird_.

~~~
gbog
I know it is not a very common way to think about parents responsibilities
nowadays, but it was more so in the past. And I think it was reasonable to ask
children to first pursue normal "un-sexy" education before getting more
"creative", because in the end the kid will have to get a job, and choosing
paths where jobs are not too competitive and pay the rent makes sense.

A good friend of mine has his preteen daughter embarqued into writing a book,
and this is ridiculous. Kids do not have to be creative, nobody has to be
creative. Being creative is a gift (or a curse) that only a few have, and when
it is strong enough to be a vocation, it will find its way, even against a
classic (boring) education.

Also, I hate the star system where a few crasy people are given as examples to
the populace, while in fact they have most often a miserable life.

~~~
hluska
Okay but once again, do you understand that this is an extra-curricular
program and not a primary school??? That means that it is recreation outside
of school hours. It is recreation outside of school hours where kids are
encouraged to be creative, to take risks, to perform in front of people and to
tell stories. Do you force your children to spend their recreation time
working on things that will directly result in a job?

I will be blunt. The way that you are talking has me feeling serious concern
about your children. Being creative is not 'a gift that only a few have' \-
every child has an imagination and I have never met a person who cannot come
up with a new idea.

~~~
gbog
In developped western countries, we live in a world where being original and
creative is supposed to be the norm. It is not the same in other parts of the
planet, and it was not always like that in the West. Allow me to question this
new party line. There are many other values that can be prefered in a human
being, like being reliable, good to others, respectful, etc. I also think that
being ambitious is not always the best way to get an happy life.

I happen to live in China, and there encouraging some creativity in children
is quite required, because the education system is very strict and allow only
few expression of the self, if any. But in the West, we went too far, and kids
and their parents feel easily frustrated if the offspring is no Mozart, that's
why I would not encourage more in this context, and certainly would not push
my kids (who are doing well, thanks) to Rock Star Schools of any kind (I
certainly do encourage drawing the things they want the way they want, but I
usually do not post their drawings to my social medias in the hope of showing
who genious they are).

