

Thank you Apple for rejecting my app - musgravepeter
http://nbodyphysics.com/blog/2014/09/20/thank-you-apple-for-rejecting-my-app/

======
k2xl
So the problem with the Apple Review process is that Apple is making the
decisions on what constitutes good or bad UI.

The Google Play store (and others) already give you feedback - customers give
ratings and can provide a comment. This is much better than a central
authority dictating what is good and what is bad.

There are many apls that have no need for a great UI - that a perhaps more
functional in nature than aesthetic.

The beautiful thing about an open policy like the Google Play store is that
you can not just get actual customer (Apple reviewers are probably not your
customers) feedback and actually REACT to the feedback by uploading a new
version right away... While on Apple Store users have to wait 7-10 days for
the App to be "approved" \- and if it gets rejected you have to wait another
7-10 days.

~~~
pavlov
_This is much better than a central authority dictating what is good and what
is bad._

It's ironic that the company that commissioned the _1984_ ad ended up
seemingly irrevocably drawn towards centralized authority and secretive
hierarchical decision-making. (They were always at war with Google. Always.)

~~~
MCRed
What's ironic is that people think nothing of google keeping spam out of its
index, but have a problem with Apple keeping spam out of the AppStore.

Apple's beef with Google started when they counterfeited iOS, which occurred
while the Google chairman was on the Apple board of directors. (Something I
would think would be pretty actionable.)

Apple is not a centralized authority because Apple doesn't have a monopoly on
smartphones. The decision making is neither hierarchical or secretive, as they
have published the rules, and will cite chapter and verse when they reject
you.

I got rejected. I didn't cry, but I was pretty pissed for about 4 hours. It
sucks and it's hard not to take it personally. But once I was objective, I
realized they were right, I fixed the problem, and got published.

Like OP, I realize they were right.

Given the number of apps I've submitted to the Appstore and the few rejections
I've gotten, it's clear Apple is playing fair.

But it is ironic that google fans who never submit apps to the store generate
so much grief and noise over Apple's rejections while being mum about googles
actively shaping the the entire web to be lower quality.

And unlike Apple, google does have an effective monopoly.

~~~
digitailor
It's so refreshing to hear the attitude in this article, and MCRed's above.
It's completely reasonable, this understanding that Apple has a right to
decide what it sells in its own store. Unfortunately, other comments here
often reflect the opposite attitude: "fAscIsm cLoseD anDroid aRRgh."

Imagine this: A designer walks into corporate headquarters of Macy's with his
sample garments that he wishes to sell there. He is given the opportunity to
talk to a Macy's buyer (the person who selects garments to sell).

The shirt the man shows says "So sO seKsy" on the right sleeve, there is what
looks like a mustard stain on the collar (he defends that it is "the beautiful
sun", and the construction is terrible- a button falls off while the buyer is
looking at it.

    
    
      Buyer: "I'm sorry sir, this shirt is grotesque in my view. Best of luck to you."
      Designer: "Screw you! I'm going to sell it to Target! I'll never shop here again!!"
    

Apple has no responsibility to sell shirts that it believes are ugly. And the
OP recognized this and took his own responsibility. Kudos!

 _Note: Not an Apple fanboy, see previous comments, but i do use some of their
products_

~~~
jimmaswell
Yes but at least a Macy's shopper doesn't have to resort to hacks to even be
allowed to wear that shirt. (Installing third-party APKs on an Android without
the app store, not possible without jailbreak on iOS) Could they just go to
the other store? In this instance that would have an upfront cost (getting a
new phone)

------
CoolGuySteve
One of the things that always bugged me about programmer interfaces is the
poor choices made.

For example in the interface from this article; Why did he pick a marble
background for the buttons? Why that weird font? Why those bezels?

He could just as easily have picked Helvetica (or any other sans serif font
really), and some flat colour and gotten a distant but not obnoxious facsimile
to the iOS/android designs.

This is really a pet peeve of mine when I see this stuff from my colleagues.
It doesn't even have to look great, but your stylistic choices shouldn't be
worse than of you had made no choice at all.

The other thing (although not present here) is when programmers pick eye
blasting 0xff red and 0xff green for text on a white bg. Just type 0x7f
instead and it reads so much better!

------
ryandvm
What's funny is that ugly apps actually do alright on Android. I don't know
how many times I've seen an app have 5 stars and hundreds of thousands of
downloads, only to install it and find out the UI is horrendous.

This seems to reinforce a pervasive stereotype that Android users are
utilitarian while iOS users are much more concerned with aesthetics and form.

~~~
alexvr
I think you would find that most iOS users are just as utilitarian. The vast
majority of complaints you see on iOS app reviews concern functionality. If
anyone, you should accuse Apple of being (overly?) concerned with aesthetics.

~~~
w1ntermute
I would guess that the majority of users on both platforms don't really care,
or don't understand the subject clearly enough to verbalize it. But among the
most vocal and informed users of each platform, the difference suggested by
the GP is quite clear.

------
nirajd
I think developers should consider spending $1-$10 on graphics from sites such
as graphicriver to spruce up the design of their apps.

I for one am happy Apple rejects ugly applications. There is no place for them
on my phone

~~~
CaveTech
Because if Apple didn't reject them you'd wake up one day and find 50 of them
pre-installed for you?

~~~
jschwartzi
No, because if Apple didn't reject them you'd download 50 of them in the
process of finding one good one.

~~~
oliwarner
Doesn't Apple show you screenshots and reviews?

------
hardwaresofton
Don't know if the author is on here, but please use a modified framework (or
the default UI elements) when you develop your app. Also, you can throw in
some pre-baked icons (I dunno if font-awesome is usable on iphone, there's
gotta be something similar out there)

You can create a pretty good (albeit default) looking app by just using the
default elements, outside of the actual view that handles the game.

You shouldn't have needed Apple to tell you that looked bad. Games don't have
to have fancy UX, it's all about what the game is going to do, look at some
other games and see how they do it

~~~
rsynnott
It looks like this was a unity game, so no access to the default UI stuff.

~~~
musgravepeter
Yep. Unity. (author here)

However, in effect I did the same as using default assets by buying assets
that were ok across platforms.

~~~
hardwaresofton
Ah awesome -- was really hoping I didn't come off as judgemental in the
comment.

Mind sharing what you ended up using? I didn't see it on the post (maybe I
didn't look hard enough?).

[EDIT]

I just realized the second screen shot is the changed app...

After a quick google search I found stuff like this (the first one doesn't
look bad at all): [http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/gui-ngui-skins-and-
widgets-...](http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/gui-ngui-skins-and-widgets-
collections.159697/)

Is that usable?

~~~
musgravepeter
I chose Mad Level Manager
([https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/10070](https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/10070))

It's capable of a lot more than I used but I wanted to get this done and go on
to the next set of physics ideas.

I am also playing with the Beta of Unity 4.6 which has a lot of the same ideas
as NGUI built in. These will make it much easier to make "non-ugly" UIs with
very modest effort.

------
robbrown451
I appreciate what Apple is doing, and holy crap it was indeed ugly. Still I'd
rather let the market decide. A better approach would be for Apple to tell you
that your app was approved but it would be harder to find (like you'd have to
scroll/click/etc a bit deeper) until you prettied it up (or until it got a
bunch of good ratings despite its appearance).

~~~
mariodiana
Apple is a part of the market.

~~~
barrkel
Apple controls access to a market.

Markets work because lots of different people get to make purchase choices.
Their choices become information that feeds into the competitive process. If
there's demand for a product, the price offered for it should increase (the
manufacturer should be able to carve out larger profits). That should attract
competitors, and increase supply, and the competition should help create
products that are both better designed and lower priced.

When Apple prevents access to the market, it stops this process taking place.
If there's no price signal, there's less incentive for people to compete; the
product's niche hasn't been validated.

But you're right, this market is hierarchical, and at a higher level, Apple is
just a part of the bigger market. In that market, I choose Android in large
part because of how Apple controls their sub-market.

------
spir
Since Apple has the dominant appstore, they can afford to be choosier, which,
at least in this instance, helped a developer improve his app.

Over at BlackBerry, "OMG somebody wants to publish an App!!"

~~~
_random_
_> Since Apple has the dominant appstore, they can afford to be choosier_

Which creates a feedback loop in which the store improves in both quality and
quantity - unlike WP and Android - sadly.

------
visualR
Relying on App Store reviewers for feedback is a bad idea. The whole process
is capricious. It's likely had he submitted at a different time and gotten a
different reviewer, the app would have been approved.

------
pavlov
Of course there's no consistent standard here, so it's a completely arbitrary
decision by the reviewer. On another day, the first version could have passed.

(The iOS HIG is supposed to be the standard, but strict adherence requirements
would remove 98% of the apps on Apple's store.)

~~~
MCRed
You've constructed a false dichotomy. There is a spectrum from 0-%100
adherence with the HIG and all the other rules. While the reviewers do not
require %100 conformity, that does not mean there is "no consistent standard"
or that its "completely arbitrary".

In my experience reviewers are very careful to be precise and document,
including screenshots, the specifics that cause a rejection.

Having been rejected, none of them were arbitrary. Were you ever rejected?

------
exo_duz
It's always good before starting do design for any Apple product to have a
quick look at their Human Interface Guideline (HIG)
[https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/userex...](https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/MobileHIG/index.html).

They have HIG for almost everything.

I also read that a lot of apps are developed on iOS first
[http://www.businessinsider.com.au/app-design-company-
directo...](http://www.businessinsider.com.au/app-design-company-director-all-
of-our-clients-choose-ios-over-android-2012-7). I wonder if there's any truth
to that.

But saying that I know that Google is pressing their Material Design
[http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-
design/introducti...](http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-
design/introduction.html) quite hard lately. Would really love to hear what
Android devs think of the Material Design. Are they going to port their
current app design to it?

------
imron
To those suggesting it's better to rely on customer feedback and reviews to
know how to improve the design/UI of your app, what would you find more
useful:

1) A 1-star review from a random user, with a comment saying the app looks
ugly.

2) A detailed report with screenshots and a list of places where your app
fails to meet basic UI/design principles, made by someone whose job it is to
give you feedback so that you can improve your app.

I'll take option 2 every time, and most users from option 1 aren't going to
even bother to complain - they'll just not use your app.

------
emehrkay
As someone who is more engineer than designer and can recognize good/great
design, but cannot necessarily produce one myself, I feel that this type of
feedback is great. If I look at a design or user interface interaction and say
"I could had done that," I feel that it isn't that good. Higher standards will
push you to better results

------
korzun
He could have asked for a second opinion elsewhere. The feedback would have
been the same as Apples.

Going through 15-60 day review process for that is ridiculous, just like the
post in question.

~~~
rsynnott
Where are you getting 15 to 60 day review process from?! Numerous sources
report an average of 5 to 10 days.

The only one I've ever heard of going anywhere like 60 days was the Gmail app,
and that was almost certainly a cycle of rejections; when it finally shipped,
it barely worked at all, and tended to crash.

~~~
korzun
A bit of exaggeration on my part. But one of my applications was in a review
stage for 20 ish days due to delays within their review process a while back.

~~~
madaxe_again
How dare you exaggerate? Give us cold hard facts, now. Show me paperwork to
prove your app was in this stage for so long, or you're clearly lying.

------
jimmaswell
Does it matter at all? It has nothing to do with the experience of the actual
game. Apple wasted your time on a pointless detail and you thanked them for
it.

