
I'm going to work full-time on free software - ploggingdev
https://drewdevault.com/2019/01/15/Im-doing-FOSS-full-time.html
======
peatmoss
My best argument for UBI is, “I’d love to be able to work on F/OSS full time.”

Kudos for making it a reality. It may be scratching a personal itch, but the
positive externalities to society are real.

~~~
blfr
Yeah, it's the modern version of a minor landed gentleman who can pursue his
interests. It's how we got science.

Sadly, the best argument against UBI is that vast, vast majority of people
will not be working full time on F/OSS or quite possible anything else.

~~~
Verdex
If people don't work on anything once they get UBI this isn't really a
problem. Currently, there are many many people who already don't do anything.
They only do a little as possible to avoid getting fired OR they do
periodically get fired from every job they ever hold once their employers
realize they're always going to be a drain on productivity.

Having these people on UBI would actually allow productivity to rise.

However, I'm really concerned about UBI because:

1) One way to get more money on UBI is to convince others to give you their
money. Many people on UBI will stop producing positive or neutral work and
start finding ways to trick their fellow citizens into giving them their
money. We will still need some sort of welfare to provide food to people who
are tricked into giving away all their money for worthless services or items.

2) Some people have terrible planning skills and just want to be happy now.
They'll spend all of their UBI on worthless items and go hungry until the
start of the next month. Worse, they'll spend their children's UBI allocation
on worthless items as well (or trick their children into doing it if it turns
out parents don't get direct access to their children's allocation). We will
still need welfare to feed the children of these people.

3) Some people will decide that their calling in life is now to cause problems
for others. The food check comes once a month, so now their full time job is
dressing up as a clown and terrorizing random people. Don't have to get up for
work? Be really loud until 4am. The people who actually do have to get up for
work will naturally get the option to live in a gated community because we
need the few that actually do produce more than ever. This very well may cause
society to schism into people who work and people who don't.

4) The potential long term effects are pretty scary. If you never have to work
will you worry about education, socialization, or how to function in a
society? How many people will decide to never learn any skills whatsoever?
Sure, we could build up a lot of automation to take care of these people, but
the result is going to be a massive schism where some people only know how to
take their UBI money card to the food silo. And their children are probably
going to be in the same bucket.

Ultimately, I think we as a society have a responsibility to use our plenty to
help those who are going without. However, I'm not convinced that UBI is the
right way to make this happen.

~~~
nostrademons
I'm also worried about inflation. If you give _everyone_ $X/month to spend on
essentials but the supply of those essentials doesn't change, then a very
likely outcome is that the price of essentials, in aggregate, will go up by
$X/month.

We already see some of this with student loans. The government decided that
education is important, so it created federally-backed student loans that
anyone can apply for, and effectively increased the amount of money available
for education by a large amount. Some of this did go into increasing the
number of kids that could go to college, but much of it just went into
increasing the price of education. Plus, the supply of good jobs didn't really
go up by much, so all those extra kids who went to college are now fighting
over the same jobs they would've gotten in the first place, just with crushing
debt burdens.

~~~
fulltrottle
+1 on this also. I'm not sure how this would play out. The prices might just
normalize for the middle class, as if they ended up getting no UBI at all. But
if rent and food prices go up across the board then it'll be as if it has no
effect at all.

The upside is that the UBI will still support people that end up with
financial shocks -- something unexpected happening in their lives. That little
bit could help a lot

------
Leace
It's inspiring to see people work full-time on free software. I remember the
shock when I found out Conversations.im creator is also working "9-5 days in
Open Source." [0]

Good luck Drew!

[0]: [https://twitter.com/iNPUTmice](https://twitter.com/iNPUTmice)

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thank you!

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kev009
It's funny seeing people from niche things you used to be into pop up in other
places. When I was in my teens I did a lot of Ultima Online emulator stuff and
have seen many of the server devs at places like Google in my career. I
remember Drew's name from minecraft reverse engineering and development when I
was in college.

~~~
andrepd
I too recognise SirCmpwn from a niche place, the TI-84 scene ;)

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andrepd
Funny, just yesterday I stumbled upon your blog and the post about your plan
to working in Free Software full time. Your enthusiasm transpires, and your
level-headedness. Now I see you've done it! I just want to say,
congratulations!

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thank you!

------
seba_dos1
Glad to see that! Recently I've been lucky enough to be contracted as a
freelancer on GPL projects, or at least projects with LGPL core, with sending
improvements to upstream projects being part of the job. It's so fulfilling
and liberating that I wish it will stay this way forever :)

~~~
maxxxxx
Did a company hire you? That's pretty cool. I'd love to do that.

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kstenerud
It would make a lot of sense for larger software houses to donate to open
source developers who develop the tools they use. This is win-win since they
get the best person to maintain the software, have the developer's ear, and
don't have to deal with labor laws or office space or management. They don't
even need to be in the same country or time zone.

Plus, it's a cheap way to virtue signal, and goodwill is always good for
business!

~~~
chrisseaton
> to donate to open source developers who develop the tools they use

Are those people available to work extra hours for pay though?

I help maintain some open source software but if someone offered me money to
work on it more then sorry but I don't have magic extra hours in the day to do
that - I've got a full-time job and hobbies of my own.

I think it's better the companies step forward and put the hours in as well as
the money.

~~~
kstenerud
When you donate to someone, there aren't strings attached. There are no
expected hours. It's merely a "thank you", and an incentive for the person to
keep at what he's already doing.

Of course, with enough donations going on, it would be possible to quit your
fulltime job like this fellow has done, freeing up even more of his time.

------
dominotw
I wish America had universal health care. If i do this, I can afford to pay
for rent and food in a low cost of living area but not health insurance.

Anyone know of a nonprofit that pays for health insurance for ppl working on
OSS?

~~~
robert_foss
I don't know if moving is an option for you. But there are plenty of countries
that offer free healthcare.

Sweden, UK, Norway... the list goes on.

~~~
skrowl
About that "free" healthcare in Sweden, etc...

If you make $60,000 here in the USA, you can expect to pay about 22% in taxes
([https://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-
brackets.aspx](https://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-brackets.aspx)) so
~$12,600.

You move to Sweden and make that same $60K USD equivalent. Their tax rate is
61.85 percent ([https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/personal-income-tax-
rate](https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/personal-income-tax-rate)) so
~$37,110.

I bet you can stay here and buy some pretty great healthcare (plus a lot of
other stuff) with that $24,510 difference.

There's no such thing as a free lunch (or free healthcare). Not only are your
taxes covering your "free" healthcare, but they're also covering "free"
healthcare for several people who aren't working while you are.

~~~
sudofail
I'd just like to point out that your figures don't add up. First of all,
you're not taking into account that Sweden has a progressive tax rate, like
the US. The figure you quoted in your second link is for the highest marginal
tax rate.

If you were to be consistent, you could use the figure for America's marginal
tax rate listed in your second article, which is 37%. So apples to apples
comparison would be that the US pays $22,000 in taxes at the highest marginal
rate on 60k.

Keep in mind that the US also has state income tax, which can be upwards of an
additional 15%.

Anyway, these figures are all kinds of wrong. You need to account for the
progressive tax rate for each country, the state taxes you might be subject
to, and the tax benefits / write offs that are available to you for your tax
bracket.

~~~
skrowl
Sweden also has a 25% VAT (sales) tax on just about everything you buy there.
After they rake hard from your paycheck they rake hard again when you spend
what's left.

~~~
sudofail
Sure, but my point is that these sorts of comparisons are complicated, and the
facts matter. Anyone can hand wave the figures and come up with favorable
comparisons by including or omitting important figures. I don't think it's
fair to make simplistic comparisons and say that Sweden pays 24k more in taxes
on 60k income.

~~~
roberto
Also, you get more from the taxes than just healthcare. Free education, eg.

~~~
hacym
Is higher education free?

------
mr_puzzled
That's amazing, best of luck. Will the revenue info be public? Are the current
subscriptions close to replacing what you were making at your fulltime job?
Hopefully sustainability is not far off and I look forward to the day when you
can hire other prominent contributors such as emersion.

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
>That's amazing, best of luck.

Thank you!

>Will the revenue info be public?

Yes, I intend to publish quarterly reports, and I'm open with the financials
whenever anyone asks. I generated this report just now for you:
[https://sr.ht/QOml.txt](https://sr.ht/QOml.txt). This is combined with my
donation income, which is already public:
[https://drewdevault.com/donate/](https://drewdevault.com/donate/)

>Hopefully sustainability is not far off

I hope so too! The way I plan with these numbers is to assume yearly payments
are added to the reserves and starts burning down immediately, then I do
worst-case projections based on existing monthly donations with a churn factor
built-in, then other projections assuming various degrees of growth based on
historical numbers. The most pessimistic projections give me ~10 months and
the more optimistic ones show sustainablity coming soonish.

>Are the current subscriptions close to replacing what you were making at your
fulltime job?

No, but I hope it will be soon!

>I look forward to the day when you can hire other prominent contributors such
as emersion.

Me too :)

------
jordigh
Really brave to take a gamble on negative income. I really hope it pays off.
This could be a very good example of how to make free software.

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thanks, I hope it works out too!

------
simlevesque
<3 Thanks for your work on Sway, wlroots and sr.ht ! I use all three every
day.

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
I'm glad that you like them!

~~~
simlevesque
Thank you too :D I used to see you all the time here but now that I use Sway I
appreciate your work even more!

------
dustfinger
I would like to do the same thing Drew. Thank you for making an example.

Cheers!

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thanks! I hope more people can follow this path, too.

------
simplecomplex
Please think twice before spending your life savings, especially if you have
no solid plan for getting donations to pay for your living expenses. It’s much
less risky to increase donations before quitting your job.

Just be careful if this is your life savings.

------
dajohnson89
This guy got me into Bitcoin in 2013, on freenode. I helped him diagnose a bug
using git-bisect, and he paid me in btc. Had to create a coinbase account to
receive the bounty.

Best of luck Drew, and thank you.

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thanks!

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interfixus
Anyone working on Alpine and Musl wins my more or less automatic upvote. And
then full-time, with no immediate reimbursement and no long-term guarantee.
Refreshing. Thank you, sir.

------
ISNIT
For anyone who'd like to try their hand at paid open source work, an
organisation I write code for is hiring an Android dev to lead development on
their Wikimedia-funded open source app... [https://kiwix.org/android-
dev/](https://kiwix.org/android-dev/)

------
harlanji
I have been doing this for a year. Check my Twitter for how it’s going, same
handle.

------
mStreamTeam
You're the guy who got into a debate about chat protocols on my project,
mstream. Man it's a small world.

Good luck with everything. And thanks for checking out my project.

------
jammygit
I saw your website last year and thought your projects were intriguing.
Congrats on being able to do it full time!

------
isacikgoz
Congratulations! It is a great devotion of you, I would like to support too!

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thank you!

------
kevinherron
Congrats Drew. I've been rooting for you since your original post.

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thank you!

------
jai_
Will you be planning to contribute on the osu!lazer project again?

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
I still pull it down every now and again, but probably not going to contribute
in any meaningful way. Once it's closer to being complete I'll probably go in
and do a big Linux support patch.

Odds are good for TrueCraft, though!

------
knocte
Welcome to the club!

------
ktta
Wishing you all the best!

Looking forward to sr.ht being a success :)

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thank you!

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JoshuaRLi
Drew, thank you.

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skrowl
Here's my best argument for why UBI can't work in the USA. Let me know where i
went wrong:

My TV told me a "living wage" is at least $15 (but probably higher in liberal
controlled areas like NYC / most CA cities / etc due to high cost of living &
taxation), but we'll start with $15 to make it easy.

$15/hr at 40hr/week = $31,200 per year.

$31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000

Written out (for emphasis) that's TEN TRILLION TWO HUNDERD FOURTY THREE
MILLION DOLLARS. That's just the handouts, not counting in any overhead /
administrative costs to give out the handouts. It'll likely be more than that
if you adjust it higher than $15 for people living in NYC, etc.

Meanwhile, the entire GDP of the USA is less than 20 Trillion. That's the
current GDP where people are incentivized to work, so it would likely go down
(perhaps drastically) when people are paid to do nothing under UBI.

Let me know how that adds up.

~~~
gpm
I think you could get away with a UBI which is substantially less than that.
$12,000/person/year seems like it should be easily sufficient - since I live
on that much excepting tuition in downtown Toronto (not cheap), in CAD (so
really a lot less), just fine.

Keep in mind that when you are counting per person that means you are
allocating that much for people not in the workforce like children too. A 4
person household is getting $50,000/year with the above number.

Expecting people who are just living on a UBI to move somewhere with a low
cost of living also seems reasonable to me, I suspect you could substantially
slash even the $12,000/person/year number and still have it be sufficient.

I also think that a partial UBI (e.g. $3000/year) would likely be nearly as
beneficial as a full one, but it does increase overhead costs because then you
can't get rid of the rest of the social services.

(Other people have addressed the fact that a comparison to GDP isn't valid
because of taxes).

> not counting in any overhead / administrative costs to give out the
> handouts.

These costs are negative, in the sense that it allows us to remove the other
low income services with much greater overhead.

~~~
skrowl
That's a good point, the US population of people 18 years or old is ~252
million, so if you only gave people 18+ a UBI handout, you'd cut your costs to
7.862 Trillion dollars per year.

~~~
coldtea
Also one could remove the UBI part already covered by pensions -- e.g. the
millions of government employees getting X pension money, can get (X - UBI) +
UBI (so the same as they already get).

~~~
dragonwriter
That's not a UBI, then, because it's not unconditional.

Also, I suspect the formula you intend is X + max(UBI - X, 0)—or, more simply
max(UBI, X). Consider what your formula does for pension < UBI.

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kongDaKid
Hi Drew. I follow you on mastodon and your blog and appreciate your
contributions and insights. Best of luck to you to succeed in your new venture

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thank you!

