
Hello, Stranger - wallflower
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/26/opinion/sunday/hello-stranger.html
======
hawkharris
When I was in college I heard a story on NPR about a journalist named the
Georgia Rambler. He would journey throughout Georgia on a whim, stopping to
talk to strangers. [0]

Being a journalism student in the South at the time, I thought, "Hey, that
sounds like a fun experiment." A group of friends and I started an informal
club called Map Dart. The premise was to toss a dart at a map, travel to
wherever it landed and talk to strangers in the city or town to capture their
stories.

We received a lot of negative feedback from people who weren't interested in
journalism. Mostly, they seemed to predisposed to think that the strangers in
rural Georgia and northern Florida would shoe us away from their properties.
Some even joked that we would be shot.

The truth was something much different. Sure, the trips were initially
awkward. We would arrive at a small-town diner, look around, sigh and think,
"Okay, who's going to break the ice..." But once we got talking, the strangers
were always welcoming. The owners of a tobacco farm and a turpentine factory
even showed us around their properties. [1]

For me, the experiences of MapDart validate the research in this story. The
unpleasantness of interacting with strangers almost always has to do with that
initial "ice breaking" moment. It's relatively smooth sailing once the ice is
broken.

[0] [http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/413/g...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/413/georgia-rambler) [1] [http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-
secret-to-growing-older/](http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-secret-to-growing-
older/)

~~~
chadillac
Social engineering uses this a lot. It's rare and catches people of guard when
a stranger strikes up a conversation and positioning yourself as friendly and
attentive about listening and putting the emphasis on the stranger and not
yourself can really open a lot of doors. Compliments, reiterating the persons
information but leaving it open ended allowing them room to elaborate, etc.
People love talking about themselves and they love people that make it easy
for them to do.

If you haven't already read Dale Carnigie's "How to win friends and influence
people" that book literally changed the way I communicate with people.

~~~
mathattack
_If you haven 't already read Dale Carnigie's "How to win friends and
influence people" that book literally changed the way I communicate with
people._

This is such an under-rated classic. Everyone should read it. I don't know
where it fits in the technical or business curriculum, but one less book on
accounting/strategy/programming wouldn't hurt, and this book has a lot of
power.

~~~
afarrell
You should also re-read it if you last read it several years ago. A lot of the
things in it are habits and it is hard to pick up on several habits all at
once.

~~~
mathattack
Very true. Hard to ingrain anything without review and practice.

------
leorocky
I may be alone in this but I don't want anyone to talk to me. I don't even
want people to talk around me but that's probably not anything I can expect. I
want to read my book. I want to be left alone. In Japan it's very much frowned
upon to talk on the train, at least in Tokyo. I kind of like that system.

Why? I'm just not friendly. I don't enjoy talking. It's filled with social
anxiety and if I want to stop talking I can't just stop. I can't just say "you
know what I don't want to talk anymore" and then look away in the middle of a
conversation. I don't want to spend 20 minutes or half the day wondering how I
came across in the conversation. I definitely don't want my time dictated by
others. I had a friend actually get mad at me when I said I would ignore
someone who struck a conversation with me on BART, he felt I was obligated to
respond to not make that person feel shitty, but maybe that person should just
have noticed that my body language is all about being left the fuck alone.

~~~
azatris
> In Japan it's very much frowned upon to talk on the train, at least in
> Tokyo. I kind of like that system.

My experience was different. Random people started conversations with me,
including a coy girl on the shinkansen, even though her English was as good as
my non-existant Japanese. I'm pretty sure it depends on how inviting you look
for conversations. I mostly had a dumb smile on throughout my trip, so I guess
they liked that.

~~~
ersii
I would say riding a local commuter train (ie. on the JR Yamanote-line in
Tokyo) versus long-distance (ie. the bullet train/shinkansen) might be a
sufficient different environment that talking is more accepted.

As long as one isn't overly loud, of course.

If you're outside of one of the "quiet zones" (like the local commuter trains
or the subway); I find that people are really warm and friendly and doesn't
mind talking for a while or helping you out a bit. I guess it helped a lot
that I spoke some bare minimal Japanese (to the point where some started
talking English to me, as the conversations approached more medium/advanced
territory).

------
_delirium
I wonder how this would vary between countries. Generally the cultural norm in
the Nordic region isn't positive on striking up conversation with random
people; it's seen as a bit of a violation of people's personal space
(exceptions apply to bars). There's some kind of joke I don't fully remember
about people who start conversations with strangers, which has the punchline:
"he's either drunk, insane, or foreign".

The article says that those are "commuter norms" in Chicago also, but my own
experience is that Americans are much more likely to strike up a conversation
in public, even at places like a bus stop or in a grocery check-out line,
which would be considered very weird in Denmark or (especially) Finland. When
I lived in Santa Cruz, California, on the other hand, it was seen as a bit
weird _not_ to at least exchange a little small-talk in some of those
situations.

~~~
chaired
I'm from Boston. I saw spontaneous group conversations break out among
strangers fairly often. Certainly, I would not think twice if it happened
there. In eight years in Seattle, I have never seen it happen, not even once.

~~~
kylebrown
I once talked with someone from Seattle about our similar experiences riding
the train in D.C. In mine, I was looking around too much for the young
professional seated next to me. He removed an earbud to ask me if I had a
problem, I said "no, just my first time riding the train here... So what do
you do?" His response was scathing, "I mind my own damn business." She
remembered being scowled at for offering another passenger a piece of gum (a
girl with an iPod, earbuds, and newspaper).

Being from the midwest, I've taken the train in Chicago many times, without
ever having an experience like I did in DC. I would say that commuters in
Chicago tend to be comfortable exchanging glances with one another and making
smalltalk, quite unlike DC.

~~~
cafard
DC public transportation does seem to have an ethic of space--the other week a
guy moved when I sat down next to him--and reserve. That said, I haven't seen
a lot scowling when one is intruded on. I will not myself initiate a
conversation unless the person is next to or across from me and there is
obvious reason to--reading matter or possible recognition.

------
lnanek2
I really hate when people talk to me on the trains. I usually have a book I'm
reading, computer to work on, etc.. Yet it's not polite to tell them I don't
want to talk. Often short one word answers aren't enough to clue them in
either. The article claims we should sit down and talk to strangers, but what
if the stranger is similarly forced to respond and doesn't want to?

~~~
gilgoomesh
I agree with you.

For reasons I've never understood, people try to talk to me on trams in my
city once or twice a week. Maybe I look more welcoming than I feel.

Some of these conversations are awkward for abnormal reasons (the other person
has some kind of mental or dependency issues) but even when the other person
is normal: I don't like it.

Simply: I don't like idle chatter. I would rather sit in silence.

Yes, I could simply tell people I don't want to talk. I've done this but
unless you actually have a book to hide behind you're likely to endure the
rest of the journey being regularly glared at like you're the worst person
they've ever met.

This doesn't apply to people with actual questions. That's fine – you can
answer the question, be helpful and follow up on the topic or not at your
choosing.

But for random unsolicited conversation, I think the cultural norm of avoiding
idle chat with strangers is helpful and positive.

~~~
derefr
The usual solution is headphones. And if you're not the type of person who
enjoys constantly listening to music, well--the headphones don't necessarily
have to be plugged into anything (besides your pocket.)

------
dtf
I have to wonder - is this a Starbucks promotional piece? Why is a Starbucks
gift card so effective? Why is a Starbucks cafe the perfect place to study
these kinds of interactions? Is the Starbucks brand something that we, as
readers, need to connect in our minds with the core company concepts of
conviviality and happiness? Would sponsoring a scientific study help with
this? Or am I just too cynical for this world? Maybe I need a latte to calm
down.

~~~
axanoeychron
I assumed that the study was targeting people who have the routine of
commuting and getting a takeaway coffee near the workplace.

I could be wrong but it should equally apply to any other coffee shop in a
location near offices and public transport (like a metro).

------
kijin
> _By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported
> having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude._

Explanation 1: Either there are more extraverts than introverts in Chicago, or
more extraverts volunteered to participate in the experiment (selection bias).

Explanation 2: When it comes to deriving pleasure from short, shallow
interaction with a random stranger, there's not much difference between
extraverts and introverts. Hell, I'm officially diagnosed with Asperger's and
I still enjoy those quick interactions. I just happen to be not very good at
it.

As the article itself suggests:

    
    
        The great thing about strangers is that
        we tend to put on our happy face when we meet them,
        reserving our crankier side for the people we know and love.
    

But there's one thing that the article fails to mention.

As an autistic introvert, I'm still capable of deriving pleasure from talking
with strangers from time to time, but the need to put on a happy face and
consciously maintain it also puts a great strain on me. Too much mask-wearing
makes me exhausted. At the end of the day, I no longer even have the energy to
conjure up a passable mask, so I return to my usual cranky self. In other
words, the momentary burst of happiness has a significant energy cost, and the
ROI for introverts may be much lower (or even negative) than it is for
extraverts.

------
Tenoke
I suspect that these studies have the limitation, that only more extroverted
people agree to do such things for a $5 gift card, while the introverts just
say no (I'm using the terms extrovert and introvert loosely here).

And yeah, of course the extroverts would feel happier when talking to people,
while those who wouldn't feel so rarely even participate in the study [if my
suspicion is right].

------
sopooneo
It's possible these atypical experiences were like candy: a great treat if
rare, but you'd prefer never having it to having it for every meal.

~~~
arjie
That's a great hypothesis. Also, I often enjoy having short conversations on
the BART if someone strikes them up with me, but I'm not so sure I want to
spend the whole ride talking.

This happens often enough if you read because people often remark on the book
you're reading. It's okay to then have a short conversation that starts off
from that so long as it's occasional.

If every single time I got on the train someone wanted to talk to me, I might
wear sunglasses and plug earphones in.

------
graeme
I've started doing this. I've never had a negative experience, and it's
usually been a lot of fun. If someone isn't interested, it's obvious, and you
stop.

I highly recommend trying it. Lots of smiles on both sides.

------
Lambent_Cactus
"One group was asked to talk to the stranger who sat down next to them on the
train that morning. Other people were told to follow standard commuter norms,
keeping to themselves. By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a
stranger reported having a more positive experience than those who had sat in
solitude."

What about the passengers they accosted? The no talking norm on public transit
isn't meant to protect the shy from having to initiate conversations, since
that's easy not to do. It's to protect people from strangers who want to but
in. I'm sure every loudmouth who tried to strike up a conversation seated next
to me on an airplane thought it was a fine idea, but I would have been happier
to be left alone.

~~~
rando289
> What about the passengers they accosted?

Speaking to a stranger != accosting. Welcome to the internet, where you can be
bold enough to bash well meaning strangers who spoke to you, yet not bold
enough in real life to simply decline a conversation.

~~~
derefr
I don't often get talked to on transit. However, I do often get _ranted at_.
The drunk and the mentally ill ride the subway too--and, unlike in other
places, you can't get away from them there.

The etiquette against talking to people on mass transit is a bit like the
prohibition most religions have on murder: something you don't need to tell
most people, because it's covered by their internal compass--but which is
instead intended to suggest an orthogonal reason for holding back to the
people for which that compass is broken.

~~~
tripzilch
Please note that the article does not, in fact, advocate to get drunk and/or
brain-damaged and start _ranting_ at strangers.

Similarly, while smiling is found to make a person more likeable, grinning
like a maniac, probably less so.

------
Tiktaalik
I almost never chat with people on transit, but while commuting via bicycle
I've often had conversations with fellow riders. I wonder what the difference
is that encourages conversation. I guess maybe the likely shared interest in
bicycles is a good conversation starter?

~~~
collyw
Interesting. I can't imagine having a conversation whilst cycling, but then I
do tend to go fairly fast a lot of the time, so I am concentrating on not
hitting anything.

Though I did think something similar reading these comments. Living in a city
with lots of people it is rare to interact. As soon as you leave the city, and
do some outdoor stuff, hiking / mountain biking / kayak, its normal to speak
to stranger, and kind of rude if you don't even acknowledge them.

------
noisy_boy
Be careful what you ask for.

If you ever get the chance to travel Indian railways, say, in a non-
airconditioned class (which is cheaper and hence has more "average" people),
you will inevitably end up chatting about politics (typically with the older
generation), railway route trivia (I seriously don't know why that is SO
interesting to my dad's generation), movies/cricket and everything else under
the sun.

And if you are a foreigner, god help you. By the time you disembark, you'll
have a group of 5-6 people who just digged your life history including how
much money you make, out of you.

Except shitty toilets (no pun intended) and general hygiene issues, it is a
very interesting way to travel.

------
icco
I still suck at talking to strangers, the concept scares me greatly, I've
never been entirely sure why. Anxiety maybe?

My biggest breakthrough was realizing in college, that I could go to a coffee
shop and order a cup of coffee and talk to the cashier, and they were usually
very friendly. So, now when anyone is serving or helping me (waitress,
barista, security guard, guy who empties the trash cans, whatever) I say hi
and ask "how's it going". It's not a deep interaction, and it's not huge, but
considering the number of days I used to go without saying anything to anyone,
it's a nice improvement.

------
aufreak3
I used to frequent the bay area around 2000 when I worked for a Singapore
based startup who setup their HQ there. As I didnt have a driving license, I
used to take public buses from San Mateo to Burlingame, and make train trips
to SF.

I was given the standard cautionary rules by many, but I have to say that in
all that commuting, I never felt threatened even once. Normal folks commuted
by bus too. However, there were also quite a few who we were "challenged" in
various ways, but still had regular jobs at cafes and such. Since my commute
schedule was fixed, I became familiar with them and realized that though there
wasn't much conversation going on, the regulars were all familiar with each
other.

On one occasion, one guy sat next to me and poured his heart out about how his
girl friend ditched him years ago and how upset he's been over it for many
years. Then, when a stop came, he wordlessly walked out the door and held it
open for one of the regulars. This lady had her eyes to the floor the whole
time and after she'd got down, said "bye" to him. He returned a "take care",
came back to his seat and resumed his story with me.

I admit I was somewhat uneasy on the bus commutes initially, but this incident
totally changed me. Actually, I'd never seen this quality of spontaneous
kindness among "normal" folks during my stay there .. and was humbled greatly
myself.

I always recall this incident (and all those commutes) fondly. I now think
most "normal" city folks who curse each other on every misstep, cant tolerate
a couple of seconds delay on the road, who never seem to get a thought to
extend themselves out of their pitifully small and limited bodies to someone
else; as the folks who are "challenged".

So, coming back on topic, at least start a conversation with the regulars on
your commutes.

------
juliend2
Since 6 weeks now I'm saying Hello ("Bonjour", since I'm in Quebec) to at
least one stranger every day. During the first days it was really difficult
for me to break the ice, and it sometimes felt awkward and eventually (after
1-2 weeks) it became a second nature. I smile all the time when I'm outside
and look at people more easily, in order to ease a non-awkward "Bonjour". I
still have some people ignoring me or just mutter a barely recognizable
response and avoiding me, but it feels good every time I'm done for the day
(having saluted 1 person).

It's an efficient habit to overcome shyness I think. My next goal: starting a
conversation with at least one stranger everyday.

And like the article says, it kind of forces me (the smiling, eye contact,
etc) to not just look happy but actually feel happier. And just overcoming the
fear of talking to strangers is liberating.

------
mkhattab
It seems to me that it would be difficult talking with strangers on public
transport considering most people have smart phones. I've noticed this with
younger people. Some cannot sit down for more than, say, 10 minutes without
having to look at their phone.

------
scotty79
My rank of unpleasantness: 1\. Being conversed to badly. 2\. Being around
people who ignore you. 3\. Being conversed to pleasantly. 4\. Not being around
people that might potentially converse to you badly.

The trouble with this research is that it compared being around people who
ignore you with being around people with positive interaction (that turned out
almost always ok).

It didn't compare being around people who ignore you and being around people
that converse with you pleasantly with not being around people.

Also it failed to take into account how slightly pleasant interactions tend to
fade away, but unpleasant interaction tends to burn a scar in ones memory that
can hurt for years.

------
afarrell
I suspect this would only work with men. I'm told that for women, every
interaction with a random stranger could be the start of a physical assault.
Then again, the author of the article is named Elizabeth, so I'm kinda
confused.

------
jackmaney
"By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported
having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude."

And what about the people who had conversation thrust upon them by a stranger
during the train ride?

~~~
avalaunch
Near the end of the article:

"The benefits of connecting with others also turn out to be contagious. Dr.
Epley and Ms. Schroeder found that when one person took the initiative to
speak to another in a waiting room, both people reported having a more
positive experience. Far from annoying people by violating their personal
bubbles, reaching out to strangers may improve their day, too."

------
jordanlev
This seems to ignore the fact that some people are more introverted than
extroverted (meaning how people "recharge" \-- either via "alone time" or by
talking to others, respectively). I am more introvert than extrovert, and when
I've worked at jobs where I've commuted back and forth, I _loved_ the alone
time I had on the bus or train to and from work -- it really helped me regain
some mental energy before and after work. If someone started talking to me it
would just drain that away, and I'd much rather save that energy for coworkers
or loved ones.

------
HenryMc
I recently moved from Christchurch, New Zealand to Melbourne Australia.
Christchurch has a population of about 350,000 and the only form of public
transport is busses (which I have almost never needed to take). Melbourne has
a population of about 4,500,000 with trams, busses and trains.

On week days my commute involves a half hour train ride and a 5 minute bus
trip either way. While most people are glued to their phones, I purposely
avoid using mine as much as possible. I just try to be as friendly as
possible.

------
js2
When I fly, about half the time I end up in conversation with a seat mate. I
have never regretted any of the conversations I've had. And it sure does make
the flight go faster. I don't ever force it and it's obvious when someone
doesn't want to talk - fascinating in those circumstances that I can sit next
to someone for 5 hours with nary a word passed between us.

------
frade33
I just can not keep quite. even worse, i end up exchanging cell numbers. And
the experience is like, I am on my college bus, traveling with my fellow mates
for a picnic trip. where everyone would secretly wish that the journey just
does not come to an end and we keep having fun.

I am baffled they needed a 'scientific' research to figure this out.

------
mildavw
I frequently strike up conversations with strangers, cashiers, clerks, etc. I
offer to take group photos so the cameraperson can be in the shot, like,
several times a month. Why? I've never really thought about it, but it's
probably for the very reason revealed in the study. It's just a habit that
makes me a happier person.

------
kawera
Another interesting article:
[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F...](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F937A2575AC0A9629C8B63&pagewanted=all)

~~~
tripzilch
_' Excuse Me. May I Have Your Seat?'; Revisiting a Social Experiment, And the
Fear That Goes With It_

That was an interesting article indeed. I figured I'd just post the title so
people have some idea what they're clicking on.

~~~
orangecat
That is a fascinating article and experiment, although it doesn't surprise me
that most people gave up their seats. If I were on a subway and somebody asked
for my seat, my highest-probability hypotheses are that they have a physical
condition that isn't immediately obvious, or that they're just weird. In the
first case I should obviously get up, and in the second case it's not worth
trying to determine if they'll have a negative reaction if I refuse.

------
septerr
"The great thing about strangers is that we tend to put on our happy face when
we meet them, reserving our crankier side for the people we know and love."

This is so true. It is such an irrational behavior on our part, yet we all
seem to do this.

~~~
jessaustin
Evo-psych enthusiasts would probably tell us it's adaptive: you know what
responses to expect from people you know. Frown at a complete stranger, and he
might beat you up.

------
dan_bk
I'd say for us "nerds", this knowledge is so central.

But I also think it really starts to apply to everybody now, as we learn to
stay glued to our various electronic devices, wherever we are, whatever we do,
whomever we're with.

------
fblp
I have a theory that there is more harmony in cities where everyone takes
public transport. It breaks down the divide between classes as people have the
opportunity to interact with someone different to them every day.

------
zobzu
way too tired to bother with people attempting to communicate while communing.

thats why people talk on planes or longer range trains, etc.

you'd really want to feel required to talk to stranger every day of the week,
morning/evening?

Not me.

~~~
graeme
The study actually accounted for your opinion. It said that people thought
they would prefer to sit alone, then had an improved experience by talking.

You may still be right, but empiricism would suggest you should test your
belief by making small talk with a stranger and see if you feel better or
worse.

~~~
watwut
I found occasional unexpected chat with strangers is usually pleasant.
However, I also avoid places where such chats happen often, because they
become tiring pretty quickly.

First short talk in waiting room for doctor was pleasant. When it turned out
they are too frequent, I started to look for isolated places. I guess it is
different if you are lonely and need to talk, but I was not lonely at the
time. My need to read or being lost in my own thoughts was much higher.
Essentially, if I had to spend that visit (they were long) by small talks, I
was tired in the evening and preferred to watch tv and be alone. If I could be
left alone, I found it much easier to interact with family and real friends in
the evening.

The second mode makes me much happier in the long term (plus I get to keep
long term relationships).

I think that this is the biggest problem of these studies. They measure short
term happiness burst from isolated events. It is like going on a short ski
trip, finding it pleasant and then assuming you would be happier skiing on the
very same hill every day all year. Maybe yes, but most likely not.

~~~
zobzu
yeah occasional is fine. forced-due-to-social-rules isn't.

------
efnysien
Is this behind a paywall for anyone else?

~~~
jdale27
Yes, but you can usually get around the paywall by visiting the site through
Google News. Just go to Google News and search for the title of the article.

~~~
jtanderson
You can also just disable javascript on that page, since the text is hidden
_after_ the site is laid out. Alternatively, you can "view source" to get the
plaintext, which has the full article.

~~~
bluejellybean
You can also open the page in a "private window" on firefox. I haven't tried
in chrome but I assume you would get the same result.

~~~
SnydenBitchy
You could also just pay, if you find yourself on nytimes often enough to hit
the paywall. Crazy, I know.

~~~
nfoz
Though there would also be something tiresome about an article-aggregation
site like HN that just links through to a bunch of paywalls. Sort of a
different thing, then.

------
RighteousFervor
Last summer I took the Rejection Therapy[1] challenge. For anyone unaware of
what that is, it's a game where you're supposed to get rejected by someone _in
person_ for 30 days consecutively.

So I'm on a crowded bus, sitting beside a middle age woman with a severe look
on her face. I still had to get rejected that day, so I opened up a can of
salted cashews that was in my grocery bag and nervously offered her some.

She seemed startled at first and declined (I got my rejection), but then
thanked me in a thick German accent.

She said she immigrated from Germany to Canada 11 years ago and did not have
any friends here. She also lived at the same house all this time and not once
did her neighbors introduce themselves or say hello. She said it was rare that
a stranger would be kind to her.

Her intense expression was gone and we chatted for the rest of the ride. I'm
glad I got out of my comfort zone and made contact with this random stranger.
It made her happy and me happy too.

If you want a way to meet new people, Rejection Therapy is ideal. Many of the
rejection cards require interacting with strangers.

[1] [http://rejectiontherapy.com](http://rejectiontherapy.com)

~~~
hhenn
Did it change how you feel about interacting with people in general?

This is the first time I've heard of "rejection therapy". It interests me but
maybe it approaches the problem in a destructive/negative way (that is, keep
doing something uncomfortable until it isn't)? I've learned to deal with
rejection by reminding myself that people have their own problems and
embarrassing histories; they aren't really that different from me. Thinking
about it in a humanistic way like that, instead of a negative/destructive way,
lets me get over things immediately.

~~~
RighteousFervor
_Did it change how you feel about interacting with people in general?_

I'm more at ease initiating conversations and making small talk. The change
over how I used to be is huge.

------
chockablock
At grave risk of downvoting: eponysterical much?

------
gregimba
Relevant username.

------
slyall
This might work well in theory but in practice this is how it will work:

 _Target_ \- female, attractive, youngish

 _Initiator_ \- male, single, below average attractiveness

------
ojbyrne
“to be looked at as though air." Occasionally I'm a grammar/spelling nazi so I
feel honored to find a typo in such a great piece of writing.

