
Bay Area 2050: The BART Metro Map - nshelly
https://medium.com/@adamsusaneck/bay-area-2050-the-bart-metro-map-ab83b22d3d8b#.fndmqyb85
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PhantomGremlin
This is so wonderful compared to the multi multi billion dollar boondoggle
"high speed rail" that California is spending money on.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-
Speed_Rail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail)

We discussed that just a week ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11996355](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11996355)

Cancel HSR and use the money toward funding transit that people would actually
use!

~~~
dragonwriter
HSR includes funding for regional and local transit in California's major
metros, as well as the long distance high-speed lines connecting them.

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tbrock
2050?! I'll be dead by then, let's get this show on the road.

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uola
I think if you want to see the show you have to get on the road i.e. the
future is happening in places like China.

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ac29
Didn't see author discuss the South Bay Ferry Pier they put on the map (looks
to be near the Google HQ in Mountain View). Has that been proposed?

Seems like with the speed of ferries, this would be a very long ride to SF and
wouldn't be practical except for a very small number of people vs just taking
Caltrain (which, as mentioned, is allegedly getting electrified soon-ish, with
faster service).

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mc32
My dream: Bart along Van Ness, Geary corridors, replace Caltrain down to
Gilroy, another spur down the el camino from Millbrae to SJ. A mass transit
bridge to Marin (oh, I know, it'll kill the views of the GGB. But tunnels at
the GG seems impractical, given geography) and extend integrated public
transit to Marin and beyond.

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xiphias
It's sad that for most of the world cheap enough electric self driving cars
will come faster than good public transport

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kbenson
I'm not sure why you think cheap enough electric self driving cars can't _be_
public transport.

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melling
This question was answered decades ago

[http://www.treehugger.com/cars/amount-of-space-required-
to-t...](http://www.treehugger.com/cars/amount-of-space-required-to-transport-
people-by-car-bus-or-bicycle.html)

It's painful that it needs to be explained.

~~~
cgriswald
I'm sorry for your pain.

You seem to think that bicycles and/or busses in an urban setting under ideal
weather conditions are the answer to all transportation questions.

Unfortunately in the real world bicycles fail to protect against inclement
weather (and are nearly unusable in winter time in some climates); can leave
their passengers sweaty, wet, or dirty; have limited cargo capacity; and are
not as useful for those with long commutes. So while they are a great solution
for some situations, they are not ideal for others.

Busses have great bandwidth and do not have to be parked or stored by
passengers, but are not efficient fuel and space unless they have enough
passengers. Busses (and trains) often run empty or nearly so. They are less
convenient than bicycles and cars in terms of pickup and drop off locations.

Autonomous electric cars could be made of various sizes (including as small as
a bicycle) for various cargo and passenger loads, could pick up and drop off
passengers anywhere, would not necessarily have to be parked (or would have to
be parked for shorter periods than private cars), would protect against
inclement weather, and might be safer for passenger and pedestrian alike than
individual cyclists or bus drivers.

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titzer
The Bay area has one of the most ideal climates for bicycle commutes in the
world. Denmark, on the other hand, which can have a rather suboptimal climate
for cycling, has incredibly high bicycle commute rates:

[http://denmark.dk/en/green-living/bicycle-
culture/copenhagen...](http://denmark.dk/en/green-living/bicycle-
culture/copenhageners-love-their-bikes)

The answer is that it's partly cultural, and partly incentives. But you can go
ahead and keep enforcing the cultural bias against bikes if you prefer.

~~~
cgriswald
A foot of snow, sub zero temperatures, and icy roads are not cultural bias.

~~~
titzer
Feel free to call me at home the next time Silicon Valley has a foot of snow.

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cgriswald
>>>>>>>> It's sad that for _most of the world cheap_ enough electric self
driving cars will come faster than good public transport (emphasis added)

>>>>>>> I'm not sure why you think cheap enough electric self driving cars
can't be public transport.

This is the context in which my post was placed. I'm not sure why you've
chosen to limit the scope to the Bay Area. The poster I was arguing with was
claiming that space is _the_ deciding factor and the hands-down-answered-long-
ago-reason why electric cars have no place whatever in public transportation.

Unless you are arguing that people should commute by bicycle in Minnesota
winters, we're not really arguing here.

~~~
titzer
Your comment directly complained about bicycles using an array of tired
excuses. I would encourage you to visit a city where bicycle commuting works
really well to get a different perspective.

As for the bay area, I was making the point that _even in one of the most
optimal set of conditions in the country_ we still ignore biking which works
well in other countries because we seem to be culturally blind. Instead we
pursue techno-fantasy when we should really just be buying everyone a $300
bike and putting bike lanes everywhere.

We should also build subways and trains and use buses and all the other
things, but we can't even seem to get anyone to take bicycles seriously.

~~~
kbenson
Since the bay area has a very high amount of people that commute a long
distance (50 miles or more)[1], how well bikes work for getting around locally
is secondary to the fact that a large group of people would have to spend a
significant amount of their non-working time on biking to get to work. People
prefer to raise families in a more suburban setting, and as long as proponents
of alternative transport ignore that, their plans are doomed to irrelevance.

1: [https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/03/05/san-francisco-bay-
area-...](https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/03/05/san-francisco-bay-area-nations-
capital-for-megacommuting)

~~~
titzer
Sure. There are a lot of intertwining problems here. Zoning has a lot to do
with it. I used to live in Mountain View. The local governments in the South
Bay overwhelming voted down denser housing and more office space. That ends up
making it harder to live close to where you work, not only for capacity
reasons but also due to housing prices. All of that compounds into a perfect
storm of transportation woe.

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fennecfoxen
So in other words, someone in the Bay Area is jealous of New York's Second
Avenue Subway and decided it's time to compete?

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erikb
Finally someone is working on this! First world cities without useful public
transport are a joke (objective statement).

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allenguo
This is really cool! How long did this project take? And how would one get
started with mapmaking?

