
Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds - pseudolus
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-20/many-millennials-gen-z-pessimistic-on-life-deloitte-survey
======
WhompingWindows
Social media's ills, rising wealth and income inequality, rising sea levels,
mass extinction event, crumbling roads, shit wages, corruption in government
and industry, governments overwhelmingly filled with representatives of other
generations with different priorities...there is a huge list of reasons to be
pessimistic and they are constantly thrown in our faces online.

~~~
austincheney
It’s really hard to take that seriously. If social media is causing you
heartburn then back away from it or delete your accounts. I deleted my
Facebook account nearly a decade ago and deleted my Reddit account last year.
Nobody is forcing you to be a drug addict slave of online media.

Some of your list looks like entitled anxiety desperately in search of
sympathy. For example you mention rising sea levels. Do you own ocean front
property or did you just list that for some abstract reason? In most countries
corruption is at record low levels. Wages are also at record high levels.

~~~
rdiddly
I agree with the general sentiment of getting off social media, but I really
doubt that wages (adjusted mind you) are at record high levels.

As for the rising sea level, thus far not mentioned in this whole branch of
the comment tree is the fact that it's going to cost us all money. There have
been billions of dollars deployed/invested in port infrastructure. It wouldn't
even have to end up being submerged, to become unusable by some number/type of
ships. That in turn either requires modifying/rebuilding/relocating (costs
money), or reducing/rerouting/cutting off flows of goods (raises prices, costs
money).

Not that that's a reason to get particularly depressed; the alienation is
mostly what's doing that. But the economic precarity doesn't help matters.

~~~
austincheney
I completely agree, but my decisions on the subject would vary in proximity to
the immediate distress of the subject and would in no way feature social
media.

~~~
rdiddly
So much the better. You know the more I think about this, social media might
be largely responsible both for the alienation that I mentioned, and for
exaggerating the seeming proximity and urgency of every crisis (not just the
big ones we should care about, but also the little ones that probably have no
real effect on us other than as spectators).

Both of those (social isolation and a steady stream of bad news imbued with a
desperate urgency and importance) would tend to discourage and depress normal
human beings!

------
makerofspoons
"Climate change, protecting the environment and natural disasters topped the
list of most respondents on a personal level, but less than three in ten of
both the Millennial and Gen Z cohorts cited it as a worry."

This is surprising. As a Gen Z-er this highlights the kind of bubble I find
myself in- my friend group is almost universally in a state of despair about
the collapsing biosphere. Climate change and mass extinction are the chief
reasons I am pessimistic about my life.

~~~
refurb
_Climate change and mass extinction are the chief reasons I am pessimistic
about my life._

Can you name another time in recent history where the end of the world wasn't
near? WW1, Great Depression, WW2, Mutually Assured Destruction, Swine flu,
AIDS, Cuban missile crisis, etc, etc.

The correct answer is it's always been this way and what we're going through
right now isn't really all that new.

~~~
icegreentea2
As a millennial, at least one thing that is different is that we all grew up
in that brief period when the world wasn't ending. We grew up in the 90s and
early noughts, when ya, there were problems, but they all seemed containable.
It seemed like the adults generally knew what they were doing, and could be
counted on the to the right thing.

I'd also argue (with no real basis of course) that the type of dread that
climate change and mass extinction invokes is possibly of a different kind
than most of the crises that you listed.

~~~
Domenic_S
> _the world wasn 't ending. We grew up in the 90s and early noughts, when ya,
> there were problems, but they all seemed containable_

Here are some things I remember from that time off the top of my head:

We were on the brink of environmental collapse as CFCs were destroying the
ozone layer

Acid rain was going to destroy lakes, trees, rivers, eventually killing us all

HIV was not well understood and very very scary

Waco/Branch Davidians siege

The Oklahoma City bombing

The Unabomber

Desert Storm

The Bosnian War

of course, 9/11

> _It seemed like the adults generally knew what they were doing, and could be
> counted on the to the right thing._

I wager that's an artifact of youth, it seems to me we all think the times
when we grew up were easy to understand, everything's going great, etc.

~~~
hiram112
> We were on the brink of environmental collapse as CFCs were destroying the
> ozone layer

I'd probably be ridiculed by most of the younger crowd here for my views on
global warming, I mean climate change, but as someone who distinctly remembers
the nonstop warnings of the Ozone Layer - we're all gonna die - I just don't
put much energy into worrying about the latest issues related to the
environment.

Part of me knows that I'm probably underestimating the actual problem, but
I've been hearing warnings for years that never amounted to anything.

I wonder if this is why the boomers, who were literally practicing nuclear
bomb safety in school (much like school shootings now) and have had another
few decades of dire warnings that never materialized, are even more unlikely
to care about the environment or much else about which the younger generations
are so fearful.

~~~
refurb
This is a very insightful comment!

When all you've heard for the past 40 years is the end of the world is around
the corner, and that doesn't turn out to be true, you start to tune it out.

~~~
ryandrake
Yup, I’m over 40 and there’s definitely a “Boy who cried wolf” effect in play
here. I’m tired of having to be constantly outraged about the latest
environment disaster that’s sure to kill us all this time!

~~~
atq2119
Except that unlike in the story, there really _were_ wolves, and we managed to
take them down.

CFCs and the ozone layer are a good example: there was a wolf, there was
decisive action because people listened to the warnings, and we managed to
beat the wolf.

Carbon emissions are an entirely different scale of problem though because so
much of our economies is built on them.

------
temp99990
I’ve been fortunate to have landed in a financial position where I’m not
scraping by as a millennial but having worked for several years in SF tech one
thing that I have felt increasing unease with is the feeling that the
companies I’ve worked for might not actually be a net positive for the world.
My problem is more existential than economic, which is very much a first world
problem but a problem for me nonetheless.

~~~
fancyfish
Your feelings sound not unlike colleagues working in hedge funds who say it's
hard to maintain motivation when your purpose at work is to optimize a
percentage risk/return at the end of the quarter. Quarter after quarter. Year
after year.

I think this correlates with the idea we expect to derive most of our
"purpose" directly from our work [1]. Which certainly doesn't bode well when
you are told to go to college for your "passion," find a job doing your
"passion," and are now underemployed at a job that primarily just pays the
bills.

[1]:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-w...](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-
workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/)

~~~
asdff
I don't think that's too much to ask that you derive some pleasure from your
work. It does take effort, and 8hr is 50% of your waking hours a given day,
and if you work for a hedge chances are you are working till at least 6 and
weekends during busy season if you are <5 years out of school. That really is
a huge chunk of your life and if you think its bullshit, it can really way you
down.

------
rubicon33
My wife and I are not having kids.

If you could sum it up into one short explanation as to why:

My wife and I don't believe that the future is going to be a better place.

Chief among the reasons are wealth inequality and buying power. If I can
barely afford to buy a house now with a great job, I shudder to think what my
kids would be faced with.

~~~
ddgflorida
Have some context - you are better off living in this time/place than any
other time and your future children would probably be too.

~~~
Creationer
Not having children - and not curating a presumably well-mannered and
intelligent next-generation - leaves our civilization worse off and large
problems that much harder to solve.

Human intellect is rare, and partly hereditary. Please pass your genes along -
at least offer a sperm or egg donation.

~~~
internet_user
why is this downvoted?

~~~
Creationer
Some people take solace in the idea of childlessness.

I think that raising as many happy, healthy, intelligent and productive
children as possible, with a suitable partner, is our very raison d'etre.
Specifically for the high-IQ HN audience. Life and society becomes much
simpler and more rewarding when you view things from this perspective.

------
SamuelAdams
> Less than three in ten Millennials expect to stay at their current job for
> the next five years.

Well yeah. I can stick around my current company for 5 years and get a 2-4%
increase each year, or job hop every 2-3 years and get a 20% raise each time.

With a market like this, why wouldn't you job hop? Loyalty to a company only
inhibits you.

~~~
asdff
It's hard to job hop if you aren't already in an area with lots of hoppable
jobs. That really only covers a handful of metros in the U.S., and if your
school doesn't draw recruiters from these places it's all the more difficult
to get your foot in the door when these companies have mountains of just as
qualified local candidates they can pick through. Then if you do get all these
interviews you have to not only take time off, but book travel, potentially
burning airline tickets and hotel stays if it doesn't pan out. You almost need
a buddy with a free couch if you are job hunting in NYC or LA. That's why I
left the midbest as fast as I could, because I know how easily people get
trapped out here with very limited prospects and mobility.

~~~
opportune
Pretty sure most well-paying jobs will pay for your airline tickets and hotels
to interview. Not sure why you would take a job in a very high COL city that
doesn't cover that type of thing, sounds like you're walking right into
poverty

~~~
madengr
Ditto. It’s been 23 years since I looked for a job, but all 5 interviews out
of EE grad school flew me out and paid for hotel, car, etc.

Have times changed? This was standard practice back then.

~~~
filoleg
Not at all. If anything, a lot of tech companies have only upped the stakes
since then. Every single one of my friends who just graduated college and was
actively interviewing recently had not only flights/hotels/transportation
taken care of, but also got some nice perks like first class tickets or
airline lounge access at the airport. Most also reimburse for food and any
other expenses while you are in the city, up to a certain limit per day, which
is usually very generous (the most common one I heard was $75/day for food).

I don't know of a single dev in real life who had to fly out for an interview
and had to pay for flights/hotel out of their own pocket.

------
inflatableDodo
This from Bloomberg, is a bit like when someone slaps you in the face with
your own hand and then tells you to stop hitting yourself -
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-10/american-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-10/american-
cheese-is-no-longer-america-s-big-cheese)

~~~
klodolph
I read the article you linked, other than the fact that the headline is a bit
of a cliche "Millennials are killing X", it didn't seem like the article was
anything other than reporting on how tastes are changing.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
The article linked (not the Bloomberg one but the same piece) discussed on HN
(too lazy to find the link) and your comment pretty much summarizes the
comments.

------
mettamage
One thing I'm pessimistic about is this pigeonholing thing regarding to one's
role in a job. I'm a programmer and therefore I can only program.

Or so it seems.

People don't take me seriously at entry level positions of:

\- Consultant

\- UX Designer

\- Data Scientist

\- Marketing (analytics)

I wish people would at least interview me on it. They'd be surprised what I
know and am able to do.

One person made it obviously clear that I should become an entrepreneur, but I
really can't justify taking the risk.

~~~
pmalynin
Change your title to Machine Learning Engineer and sell yourself.

Works wonders.

~~~
hiram112
How much time did it take you to actually learn enough to become competent?

I've looked at the mathematics needed - after that it seems like figuring out
the main 'ideas' and then just picking one of a dozen frameworks in which to
become very familiar.

But unless I want to 'fake it until I make it', seems like it would take a
good year or two, possibly with two semesters of grad school for both math and
the machine learning, to really learn it as it wasn't something I learned at
all undergrad or previous jobs.

------
rland
I think happiness is very orthogonal to economic progress. It's a uniquely
American myth to believe that GDP growth is a proxy for the happiness of a
nation's people. (We export it all over the place).

Social systems which do not provide economic growth have been systematically
destroyed over the past few generations. Workers have to be mobile to compete;
public spaces have been eroded to favor the privately owned; placement into
employment has shifted from personal connection to faceless, autonomous,
nationwide filtering; geography of public spaces favors the individual over
the group (again, to eliminate sharing of resources); media and culture is far
more national or even global, rather than local; religion and all of its
communal benefits (and downsides!) is waning...

Some of these systems benefit social cohesion and happiness a lot. Often at
the expense of individual liberty, that's why it's easy for Americans to
rationalize shedding them.

I don't think it's a grand conspiracy, but it seems obvious to me that this
cultural shift is occurring because of the dominance of economic life over all
other forms. Unfortunately, economic growth is power, and therefore once one
party has it, everyone else must shift to compete. We are seeing this
reorganization at every scale, from the individual, to the corporate, to the
national, up to the global scale. It isn't even close to being over.

I think millenials/genZ realize that our culture is missing something, but
they can't quite articulate what it is. This is because the entire discussion
folds into this worldview. Look at how many of us are discussing the price of
this or the price of that in this thread!

------
filoleg
Could it also be that it just became less of a taboo topic to discuss in the
west, hence why we see so much more of it? Also explains why we are trying to
pin it on millenials/genZ, as younger people are typically the ones to
experience a lot of anxiety and uncertainty about the future AND are the ones
to typically care less about entrenched societal no-nos.

Anecdotal, but I have family that lives in Eastern Europe, and mental
health/anxiety/etc. is still very much a "no-no shameful" topic to discuss or
air your feelings about there.

Another anecdote: all the mental health initiatives promoted and advertised at
work, nationwide mental health awareness month, etc.

~~~
trevyn
I think beyond it being a taboo, it simply doesn’t enter consciousness in many
non-western (or non-US?) countries — maybe kind of like how Asperger’s was
discussed before it even had a name — it wasn’t, or that person was just a bit
“different” in certain ways.

------
40acres
In my experience the economy (roughly 80%) and social ties (roughly 20%) seem
to be the biggest factors. I work for a large tech company so a majority of
the millennial I know are comparatively well off, but even among these folks
there is constant pressure to rid themselves of massive student loans, many of
my immigrant millennial friends feel trapped due to their visa status.

On the other hand, social ties among some millennial seems weaker than past
generations -- a lot of us don't go to church, and spend way more time on
social media than hanging out "in real life". For most people the negatives of
social media vastly outweigh the positive.

------
danielecook
Started chatting with a guy at the airport about work / careers. Within 5
minutes he started ripping on millennials and their work ethic. I am a
millennial!

Sucks to be saddled with debt after college, have lower paying jobs, and still
be shit on by the older generations. And I have things relatively good.

~~~
internet_user
I am also a millennial.

The work ethic problem seems to actually exist (from my limited but numerous
experiences, including my own), however I am convinced that it is due to
learned helplessness.

Just imagine hearing your entire life that the world is just about to end any
minute now, the icebergs are melting, everything is polluted, everything is so
very bad, financial depression, no jobs for you, etc etc.

Seems like these generations are under massive assault of negative information
every second of their lives.

Is it any surprise suicide deaths are a leading cause of death for younger
adults? Sort of difficult to have good work ethic with chronic depression.

~~~
caconym_
The phrase "work ethic" pisses me off because it codes this idea that I should
be a _hard worker_ , which of course (because we live in the world we live in)
refers to me busting my ass for somebody else's benefit.

Anyone who wants to criticize my work ethic can go and fuck themselves. I work
incredibly hard, but at my _job_ ^[1] I do as little work as I can get away
with (while retaining the standing I need to be comfortable) because they pay
me as little as _they_ can get away with. I don't see the problem.

^[1] Coveted tech job. It is a "great job" and in practical terms I feel lucky
to have it. None of that changes the calculus of the business relationship
that is employment.

~~~
djakjxnanjak
I think a more reasonable attitude is that it’s usually possible to improve
your material wealth with effort, and people can decide to make the trade-off
if they think it’s worth it. This is not a value judgement.

~~~
caconym_
> This is not a value judgement.

Where "this" is the term "work ethic"? For you, maybe not, but for others it
is certainly used to articulate a value judgment, hence my dislike of the
term. I don't think it's precise or accurate enough to avoid being used in
this negatively loaded way.

I agree that "it’s usually possible to improve your material wealth with
effort, and people can decide to make the trade-off if they think it’s worth
it." That is exactly the sort of trade-off I claim to be making, with the
additional note that it's a continuum rather than an either/or choice.

------
tathougies
Millenial here, and I just don't understand why my generation is so
pessimistic. Things are simply better than when we were children. Perhaps it's
having immigrants for parents, but my life just seems great compared to my
parents and my aunts and uncles.

~~~
bartcobain
LOL. Even this comment reflects part of the generation. Probably you are
writing this from a first world country. The selfish gene makes people blind.

~~~
tathougies
I am writing from a first world country but the news source cited(Bloomberg)
is from a 1st world country too, so...

------
ravenstine
The millennials in my social circle unanimously believe that they are far
behind where their parents were in life at their age. In fact, that's exactly
what I heard from my best friend a couple nights ago. Both of us make six
figures, and all of my friends in my generation are well educated.

My parents were married in their 20s. I'm single and the majority of my
friends are unmarried. In less than a couple years from now, I should own a
single family home if I want to catch up to where my parents were. Myself and
all my millennial friends rent apartments. (Ok, I know one millennial who has
a house, but he lives in the middle of nowhere and he's a douchebag) Only one
of my American friends is currently pregnant, and whilst more of the people I
went to high school with when I lived in New Zealand have already had kids for
years. None of my millennial friends are in leadership or management
positions, or at least ones where they actually have any clout.

My dad got into the career he has today by hard work, but also from having
opportunities being thrown at him left and right. When he was my age, his
current field of work was still being pioneered, and the industry was taking
anyone they could get. He happened to work in a slightly related field, his
company opened up a new department, and they offered him an opportunity there.
He was hardly qualified and had no formal training or college degree.

I know his industry intimately, and there's no chance in hell that his younger
self would get his foot in the door today without extreme talent. To get in
today, you need above-average talent, you have to attend school, and you need
connections.

The same can be said for parents of many of my friends parents.

Keep in mind that the gap between wage growth and buying power was already in
acceleration, but it seems like there were more opportunities for people to
hit the ground running without too much personal overhead. Now there are Gen
Xer and some Boomer bosses who expect younger people to hit the ground running
in the same way that they did, yet hold those young people to a different set
of standards because of market saturation.

I don't view life as some sort of race to the finish line, but I can see how
most millennials are demoralized and even embittered that they seem to be
struggling more for _less_ than what their parents and their friend's parents
got. The best thing that Gen Y and Gen X can do is experience ego death,
realize that their parents lifestyles are flawed and come with other hidden
prices, move out on their own if they haven't already, and learn to appreciate
the _relatively good_ cards that have been dealt to them.

------
izzydata
I'm surprised that half of people would believe businesses are making a
positive impact on the world.

~~~
atemerev
Unless you live in North Korea (and perhaps even there), everything that your
life depends on is brought by businesses.

~~~
asdff
And my life is dependent on exponential consumption and destruction, and I
have no agency to stop that. Pretty glad I can order pizza with my watch
though! Cavemen would be green with envy at that.

~~~
atemerev
You could buy a cheaper watch, and go get a pizza from a local pizzeria.
Everybody has the agency to control their consumption and ethic policies.

~~~
izzydata
I don't know that the artificial monetary value of a watch has any bearing on
the impact to the environment it cost to produce it. Or the pizza for that
matter.

------
2819b
I think it boils down to "comparison being the thief of joy." Social media of
all types are basically one giant comparison machine, and the people that are
the most visible on social media are the richest/best looking/most successful
etc.

~~~
klodolph
I disagree 100%. It's easy to find a scapegoat but the reasons are complex,
and from data we know that Millennials and Gen Z are having greater difficulty
achieving basic levels of economic stability that were somewhat easier for
previous generations. Students are graduating with increasing amounts of debt
and entering a job market that can make it tough to pay rent if you don't have
experience.

It's also easy to say things like "more people should go into STEM", which
glosses over a couple parts of our reality--we do still _need_ non-STEM
employees, teachers, social workers, etc. even though they are not paid well,
and even if you do graduate with STEM that doesn't mean you have skills that
will land you a decent wage. Just to pick on an example, consider the choice
between chemistry and chemical engineering. Both majors are STEM and seem
quite similar, but chemical engineering is the one with good job prospects.
Likewise, if you do something like mechanical engineering you might be
expected to also do electrical and software, the employment prospects for non-
generalist engineers is less than it once was.

~~~
supergauntlet
It is honestly ludicrous to see the results of decades of economic warfare and
the nonstop closing of proverbial doors of economic opportunity done by
boomers and to a lesser extent gen X and then boil everything down to "Social
media means more people compare their normal to everyone else's best."

It isn't that it's not true, it is! Social media sucks for mental health. It's
just also true that there are many legitimate reasons to be upset. I say this
as a 24 year old that has been very very lucky to have affluent parents and
gone to a good university and gotten a good job. I make more money than I
honestly think anyone needs at my current cost of living and yet despite this
I have so many friends that are barely scraping by.

Depending on what stats you go by, the average American household couldn't
spare a $400 expense: [https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/05/23/guess-how-
many-am...](https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/05/23/guess-how-many-
americans-couldnt-cover-a-400-emerg.aspx) That's a fucking Playstation. That's
absurd.

So sum the constant anxiety of basically no economic safety net, climate
change (which is looking to be "how bad", not "if"), social media reminding
you of these AND how much better your friends are doing.. Is it any wonder
everybody feels like shit?

~~~
seem_2211
I think it's a tricky one, because there are a couple of factors here.

It's not just one thing, but rather a ton of things - for example, there is
social media which is a great way to see which of your 500 friends is
currently on vacation right.this.second (and someone always is). While in some
senses there's more opportunity than ever before for some groups (e.g.
minorities / women) in the workplace, there's also more competition than ever
before as more people go for these jobs.

Baby boomers and to a lesser extent, Gen X don't really understand that the
economy is different for young people, in that everything that was cheap for
them (housing, healthcare and education) is now grossly unaffordable, but the
things that were the domain of the rich now cost next to nothing
(international travel, cellphones, computers etc).

I make a lot of money (I'm 26) compared to most my age. But like most young
people in San Francisco, I have a roommate. I couldn't buy a house on my own.
But I could fly anywhere in the world with no worries. The housing situation
will be fucked in California for the foreseeable future because politicians
don't care about the poor and the vulnerable.

We look at business efficiency as a good thing (and it broadly is), but I
think we don't fully account for the costs, in the inherent stress it places
on us all. So we now all need a college degree to get an entry level job.
That's led to a bifurcation of the economy, between those with a credential
and those without.

The climate thing is tricky. I think we'll sort it out, but it is a big
problem.

~~~
jnbiche
> now cost next to nothing...international travel

I'd like to know your travel agent. Or could it be that despite your very real
housing woes, you're making a high salary (as you say) and don't realize that
international travel is still well out of reach for most Americans?

------
noobermin
>``Instead, travel and seeing the world was at the top of the list (57%) of
aspirations,'' the report said. > >Only 52% of the Millennials surveyed
responded that earning a high salary was a top priority while 56% of their Gen
Z peers did so.

57% is the top of the list but _only_ 56% of Gen Z want a high salary? Hmm...

Aside form nitpicks, the figure showing difference between China,India, and
the West is stark. Evidence culture and social media and whatever are not the
determining factor, economic growth is.

------
logfromblammo
Gen X, having already been born at maximum pessimism, had no room for
improvement.

I actually felt my needle jump off the pin for a moment on reading the
headline, because it means that the Millennials aren't as stupid as the
Boomers have been saying all along.

Now excuse me as I try and fail to revive the fashion and pop trends of the
1990s--a time when my purchasing power and disposable income was slightly
higher than it is now, and I hadn't yet shot myself in the kneecap by having
doomed Gen Z kids with another doomed Gen X.

Stirring up generational conflict is a distraction, and everyone that is alive
today is responsible for what happens on this planet tomorrow... but in
proportion to their wealth and influence. If you have been hoarding those for
yourself, responsibility for the future is a bit more on you than on me.

------
pard68
I was born in 91 and am very happy with my life. Few things that differentiate
me from my generational peers is I do not have any social media accounts
outside of HN, I get all my news through podcasts of people who I trust to
filter through the trash, and I am married with kids and a house.

I think the last I checked I make less than the average person of my
generation so money isn't the reason I am happy. I believe that this social
media phenomenon has done a great deal to steal people's joy, and society
doesn't help things either.

I think having family goes a long way to contributing to my happiness. I don't
worry about dating, I have next to no drama in my life from the dating game, I
have three really good reasons to wake up everyday, and I have a few hobbies
that keep me busy when I am not working.

------
gubbrora
I'm pessimistic about my life because it seems increasingly likely I'll never
marry.

------
triplee
As a GenXer, I'd like to say...

Welcome to the party.

Now what took you so long?

~~~
dokka
Millennial here, I agree.

------
acd
Stop using social media, go out join in real life local community groups.

A side effect of automation and internet is increased individualism and more
isolation from other people.

In the past you would go for example to a video store and watch movies with
friends now you use streaming services like Netflix.

More common in previous generations you would call your friends now you text
people which is less interaction.

Social media leads to a comparison effect. Ie you compare yourself to others
more. Facebook is like sunshine village trying to portray perfect life moments
except real life has many everyday dull moments.

------
syn0byte
A single mother working as a waitress at Denny's in the 1980's had more
spending power than a college educated cubicle drone in 2019; Let's talk about
how is social media's fault!

Twice in the last 20 years - more than any other time in US history _combined_
\- The Presidential election went to the candidate that _LOST_ the popular
vote; These generations just lack a proper understanding of civics!

The beatings will continue until moral improves.

~~~
xyzzyz
_A single mother working as a waitress at Denny 's in the 1980's had more
spending power than a college educated cubicle drone in 2019_

Do you have any source to support this? Because real median personal[1] income
went up almost 50% since then[2].

[1] — don't confuse it with real median _household_ income, which didn't grow
nearly as much, because of a significant rise in single-person households
which pushes the median down a lot.

[2] –
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N)

~~~
crooked-v
For some simple examples, inflation-adjusted home prices have gone up by a
factor of 6 and inflation-adjusted education prices have gone up by a factor
of 3 over the past few generations [1], while inflation-adjusted average wages
have only gone up by $2/hour [2]. That single mom would have had a
dramatically easier time providing housing and education for kids even with
lower purchasing power for most consumer goods.

[1]: [https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-
has...](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-
increased-from-1988-to-2018.html)

[2]: [https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-
us...](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-
real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/)

~~~
rukittenme
You're not accounting for the higher interest rates of the 1980s.

Which home would you prefer to buy:

$150,000 at 15% over 30 years. $350,000 at 4% over 30 years.

 _Hint_ : they both have approximately the same total loan cost and payment.

You can do this calculation with your parents. My home cost $350k at 3.8%. My
parents bought my childhood home for $88k at 8%. Adjust my parents' home price
for inflation and run the result through a mortgage payment calculator. You
find that I paid slightly more for my home but my home is much nicer (central
heat and air, closer to town, larger, better schools, etc).

My parents' home happens to be for sale currently (not by them). If I paid
full asking I would pay MORE in raw dollars but LESS in inflation-adjusted-
total-loan-cost (which is what actually matters).

~~~
api
Down payments are the monkey wrench here. The requirement to have a down
payment means high prices basically lock people out of homeownership, period.
That in turn limits ability to build wealth at all, even at a crappy interest
rate.

~~~
war1025
The main way that owning a home allows someone to build wealth is that it
forces them to put money towards something productive rather than blowing it
on stupid things.

My experience from buying a house two years ago is that though I suspected it,
I never truly realized how many amenities were covered by my rent. I went from
paying $30/month in utilities, etc. to ~$400 /month. I also now live 10 miles
further away from where I work / hang out.

Granted, we live in a house that is ~2x as big as our apartment, plus two car
garage. But if you factored out strictly the various recurring expenses I now
pay from my previous rent, it is extremely close to breaking even. And that
isn't including the increased cost of owning / operating two cars that now
drive ~60 more miles a day between the two of them.

Our net worth increased much faster while we were renting than now that we
have a house.

------
rootoor
I am surprised that there isn’t more pessimism surrounding climate change.
This is the biggest factor for me personally. However, I work at FAANG so
wages and other more immediate ills do not concern me as much.

------
kevin_thibedeau
Just have patience. There will be a glut of second hand boomer possessions
coming available in the next 20 years. There won't be enough people able to
buy that up at current market value.

------
andrew_
And who can blame them, what with the non-stop barrage of doom and negativity
eye bait being slung at them from every angle 24 hours a day.

------
xkcd-sucks
"Millennials and Gen Z are growing up"

------
asherwebb
Is the issue that perhaps folks no longer have any conception of history
because we are too bombarded with hyper-media and social media? My
grandparents grew up on a farm in the great depression where it was common to
have multiple siblings die of pneumonia, drowning or other maladies that are
far less frequent. African Americans could not even vote until the 1960's in
this country. For people to be so pessimistic today is fairly pathetic in my
opinion. Humans have always evolved to adapt, work socially and creatively
come up with solutions to huge problems from the last Ice age to the Nazis.
People should move out of these horribly overpriced cities and get back to
small, sustainable agriculture if they want to be happy. If you want a degree
get one from a community college. Yeah we have huge problems to face today as
many responders point out - specifically Climate Change, environmental
destruction and income inequality. Remember in the 1940's we had to go face to
face with the most evil empire the modern world has ever known along with our
allies and most importantly Russia. I suggest folks toughen up a bit and know
that things won't get any better without a steely resolve and working
together.

------
tectonic
Yup, this is definitely all social media and Millennials' fault.

------
dirkg
We all know the cliches - that millennials are lazy, entitled etc.

Whether true or not (there is definitely some degree of truth in any cliche),
one thing is for sure - they didn't vote and as a result we have Trump and
Brexit, and all the whining and moaning on social media, which is also what
they excel at, isn't going to do squat.

------
lol_jono
I have no idea what my plan is after I hit 30.

~~~
antisthenes
Hit 40 and re-evaluate!

------
ilovecaching
I think this is predominantly due to these generations feeling the affects of
social media. They are the guinea pigs of a world wide experiment. They’re the
first generation that is constantly barraged with photos that lead them to
fomo and unrealistic expectations.

I would argue this is a greater factor in producing pessimests than a
downturned economy or bearing the burden of the boomers mistakes (climate
change etc). They were promised a better life than what they’re getting by
college and the Internet.

~~~
luckydata
maybe we're also the first generation in a while that's seeing things
considered normal by our parents systematically out of reach?

Maybe we're a little pissed off that the implicit promise society made us if
we "worked hard and played by the rules" like politicians like to say is being
systematically broken?

It's pretty clear it's not just the way we fell about things, we're
objectively worse off than the previous couple generations by quite a long
distance.

~~~
oldjokes
I hear this complaint a lot, but never really any details. What specifically
are you mad about being out of reach and which metrics do you think you're
worse off on compared to previous generations?

Honest question. Is it just materials and money per person? Something more?

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Here's the late boomer side, which seems to be typical for my generation: my
parents were average working class but had zero trouble affording a nice-
enough-but-not-special home on a single salary earned by my father, with a
little extra contributed by my mother. [1]

I went to university on a full grant that covered living expenses and fees -
which were much smaller than they are now, so if I'd been in a position to pay
my way it would have required a relatively small investment instead of a huge
life-changing outlay.

I left university with no debt, in a fairly active job market.

I had a girlfriend who didn't do well enough at school to get into university
from school, but paid pocket money for an access course that got her onto a
degree - which she also graduated from with no debt.

Some time later my parents died with no debt, a house that had been fully paid
off well before their retirement, and some savings.

Millennials today are expected to intern for nothing. Many leave college with
absolutely crippling personal debt, and work insanely long hours. Unless
they're 10%ers - at least - most have almost zero chance of affording a home
with two salaries, never mind one.

In the UK people are literally starving and freezing to death. Some of them
are working full time and still can't afford food.

In the US, people are literally starving and freezing to death, and also being
bankrupted by health insurance.

That will probably do for metrics. If you need more, let me know.

[1] The property value of the house I grew up in is now trending towards
£1,000,000.

~~~
oldjokes
This is a really well laid out comment, thanks for just spelling it out.

