
Thank you HN, sorry HN - far_far_away
A couple of months ago I posted a request for help here on HN [1] which somehow ended up on the front page. At that time I fought with heavy depressions - it was really bad. I did not expect my request for help to land on the front page but it did and I got what I asked for. A ton of people sent me emails with very kind words and advice. Now I am in a position where I have to do two things:<p>1. Thanks to everyone who offered help of any kind. I do really appreciate it. 
2. Sorry that I did not respond to everyone who wrote in. I found out that reading all those email made me even more depressed somehow. I will send everyone who wrote in a personal thank you note once I am better.<p>With some of you I had a longer chat and one person even sent a teddy bear from the USA to Germany (where I am from). I made a picture of the teddy bear [2].<p>As I mentioned I got a lot of advice - even though I was not able to respond to everyone who sent me an email (sorry again). In the meantime I saw another doctor, changed the medication, changed my lifestyle and now I am feeling a bit better. I would not say that my life is worth living right now but it became better and you guys certainly helped a lot.<p>I would love to give something back to you but I am not sure what that should be. During the last couple of weeks I thought long and hard about that and I really would love to do something: Found a help network for hackers, somehow improve the current situation for crisis/suicide chats or something like that. So what do you think would improve the current situation of (depressed/suicidal) hackers. Please let's discuss that. Not everyone will make it on the front page when help is needed - or am I wrong?<p>[1] My original request for help: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4928031
[2] My new friend: http://i.imgur.com/nQQAVuc.jpg
======
larrys
"I would love to give something back to you but I am not sure what that should
be."

I would worry about creating an obligation that would require you to have
anxiety and other issues by not being able to fulfill the obligation. While
it's nice and might make you feel good to give back it's hard to believe that
it wouldn't be better to simply try to get yourself stronger without the
obligation of doing for others. For now.

After all even the simple act of "replying to all that wrote" appears to be
more than you can handle right now. I'm sure some of those people would want
to be acknowledged for taking the time to write.

~~~
chevas
Serving others is one of the best ways to get one's mind off oneself and
combat depression. I would actually exhort you to commit to doing some kind of
service / help for someone else. Start small. Thank you for sharing your
story.

~~~
joelhaus
Want to echo this and also recommend reading the book, How to Win Friends and
Influence People by Dale Carnegie, for some tactical advice on how to 'serve'
others in small ways. Good luck!

------
smoyer
"I would love to give something back to you"

You might want to help depressed hackers, but in the mean-time I'd suggest you
can give far more than you'd guess. Each day, find someone you can "help" ...
hold the door for someone with full arms, smile at someone who's scowling or
tutor someone who's having a hard time understanding something you know well.

You'll certainly brighten their day, but you'll also find the satisfaction in
being helpful (with no expectation of any compensation) will improve your mood
too. Don't believe me? Try it for 30 days ... and if at some point you believe
your life isn't worth living right now, think of what the people you've helped
would say about your life.

~~~
pedalpete
Furthermore, your vocal call for help and openness toward depression may have
helped many who are suffering in silence and have now gone to seek help.

------
richardlblair
Getting back in touch with the community to update us on your progress is more
than enough. It's great to hear that you have switched doctors, meds, and
changed your life style. It's even better to hear you are feeling better. Even
improvement that seems marginal are land slide accomplishments. It's a sign
that you are on your way, you can see the light, and I hope it gives you hope.
It surely gives me hope.

What I don't think you realize is that you have already done so much. That day
your story hit the front page the community came together to support one of
our own, you. This was huge. What's more is it brought depression to the front
of our minds. On that day a few people may have hugged their wives a little
tighter, asked their teenages how they have been doing... and actually listen.
Not to mention the dozens of people who are also battling depression that
would have acted on the advice given to you.

You've done so much, and you are doing so great. You have helped people with
your story... even though they may not come forward and say it, I guarantee
you did. I can tell you that your story restored my faith in this community,
which so often gets caught up in some pretty silly arguments. For this, I
thank you.

You've done so much, you've done so great, and you owe us nothing. Just focus
on getting better, and hold onto this passion you seem to have for helping
people who are in situations similar to yours. It will come in handy...

I could write forever, so I'm going to stop now.. but just one last thing. The
world needs more people like you, not less. Hang in there.

------
beaumartinez
> _I would love to give something back_

How about telling us what helped you the most? You mention you "changed your
lifestyle"—what things did you change?

------
joshuamcclure
I went through the same thing. A support group works. What helps me the most
is vitamins, water and exercise. I also stopped spiking caffeine (I take a
time release capsule) and stopped drinking alcohol.

Vitamins (every morning with food): Vitamin C 1000mg (energy and health) B-12
3000mcg (happy energy) Magnesium 400mg (focus and _mood moderation_ ) Fish Oil
- EPA 120mg + DHA 900mg (memory + _mood moderation_ ) L-Carnitine 200mg
(precursor for acetylcholine neurotransmitter) Time release caffeine (8 hours
of stable energy with no spikes)

This has helped me completely conquer my mood swings (depression as well as
ADD) and has made a huge impact on my enjoyment of life.

~~~
antinescience
Yes, yes, yes a thousand times to stop drinking alcohol. My moods leveled out
substantially once I stopped drinking. Granted, I have what is traditionally
known as a problem with alcohol so YMMV, but from personal experience it's
been the best decision I've made by far. (I could go on for paragraphs about
alcohol and programming culture, but I'll shelve the off topic proselytizing
for later.)

More important than anything else, if you're having depression issues, it's
important to remember that you can always change your story. You're not locked
into anything (well, most things) in your life. True, some things are harder
to shed than others, but if you're depressed enough where it affects you on a
monumental, daily basis, just remember you can change it. Stop engaging in
activities that make you feel like shit. Cut acquaintances (even family) out
of your life that bring you down. Drop out of life for awhile if you need to -
the people who truly care about you will understand. Anything is ultimately
better than the alternatives of a quick demise or a bleak existence, both for
you (primarily) and the people around you.

It gets better is an overused cliche, but it holds some merit. You can make it
better.

(on a side note, time release caffeine sounds incredible.)

------
danielweber
The best thing you can do is take care of yourself. Seriously.

The first rule of search-and-rescue is "don't be a victim." Make sure you are
taking good care of you.

------
unimpressive
Please, if I was motivated by the expectation of something in return I
wouldn't have mailed you.

If you are going to do something, start small, theres nothing worse than
creating a huge obligation to yourself that you can't fulfill.

------
SkyMarshal
_> Found a help network for hackers, somehow improve the current situation for
crisis/suicide chats or something like that. So what do you think would
improve the current situation of (depressed/suicidal) hackers._

I think one of the biggest problems here is that people with suicidal level
depression lose all perspective and see the world as void of any possibility
of escaping whatever box they feel trapped in. No way out or through, no light
at the end of the tunnel, just trapped in a particular emotional state and
perception of things. No way forward in life.

One of the best ways to help people through that is for those who have been
through it to simply share, in detail, their own experience with it, how and
why they felt trapped at the time, and how they made it through, and what
ultimately solved it for them.

Simply demonstrate the possibility, with as much concrete detail as possible
(which hackers particularly require), that there is a way through (a hack,
even), that depression grossly skews your perspective of the world, and things
are not as bad as they appear (especially for anyone living in a first world
country and among the lucky few fluent in the empowering languages of
technology).

Other options would be physically changing people's perspective by organizing
some sort of multi-month aid mission to an impoverished country (maybe hook up
with Engineers or Doctors Without Borders). Or alternatively a grueling,
endorphin-generating Outward Bound type excursion. Anything to jolt people out
of their current perspective of their relatively limited existence.

Finally, if it helps you could treat this whole idea as a startup, solving the
particular problem of hacker depression. Use lean startup methodology, your
hacker problem solving skills and mentality, look for hacks nobody has found
yet. Document and blog it all, etc. Who knows where it might lead, but there's
certainly an awareness of the problem thanks to high profile hacker suicides
lately, and lots of people probably willing to help.

------
njloof
Resources for depressed hackers are pretty poor. You hear of burnout, chronic
fatigue, moving someplace isolated -- but rarely the "d-word" in hacker
circles. Offering your story is a great start. There's a "Geeks and
Depression" list you may be interested in.

~~~
WalterGR
_Resources for depressed hackers are pretty poor._

For hackers suffering from depression, please don't resist getting help
because you can't find resources specifically for hackers.

In the case of support groups, it's nice to be with people who share a similar
background as you. But I think you'll find that the shared experience with
depression will massively overcome what shared experience you lack on the job
or as a hobby.

Please get help. It's not an exaggeration to say it could be the difference
between life and death. The path downward is often a long, gentle slope. While
you're on it, it feels like flat ground. You don't realize you've hit the
lowest elevation until... well, you just stop walking.

------
RKoutnik
As another hacker who has suffered from depression, this is an excellent idea.
I know that I'd much rather talk to someone who understands my peculiar
mindset instead of yet another PhD charging too much an hour.

~~~
dandrews
No no no, OP doesn't have the resources... yet. You're supposed to put on your
own oxygen mask before assisting others - there's a reason for that.

~~~
emhart
That's such a great analogy. And is absolutely correct. Depressives helping
depressives is a great idea on its face, but falls down quickly when you
haven't given yourself the opportunity for actual, serious stability before
reaching out your own hand. The process of becoming healthy becomes much more
complicated and difficult if you are trying to balance your own mental welfare
with the welfare of others.

I was once asked what I was doing to live up to a certain person's life with
whom I was associated. I said I was doing what I could for myself today so
that I could do anything at all for others in the future.

~~~
jjsz
I couldn't keep up with it but <http://lift.do/> has a habit streak and
motivation by seeing other people keeping on tasks.

Depression comes from not keeping up on tasks and losing your streak. That's
when you start questioning yourself and the cycle keeps happening. There is
definitely a niche need for a mentoring / motivational network for depressed
people. This whole thread, and your last one, plus the momentum that came with
them is proof.

~~~
sebii
"Depression comes from not keeping up on tasks and losing your streak."

I think you mixed up cause and effect. Depression mostly leads to not keeping
up with what you're doing, which is the starting point of a downward spiral.
Depression isn't "solved" by motivation. Depression is complex, but most times
a common source is a overwhelming emotional event, which is re-felt in every
down turn.

------
scottcha
Focus on getting better right now. You have your life in front of you and once
you beat this you will have ample opportunity to pay back to the larger
community. Please accept that you don't own anyone anything right now and the
best you can do it focus on what you need to get better. Its ok to feel the
kindness of others when you are in need.

Also, thanks for being so open. Continuing that openness and building a
support group for yourself through that is something which helped me through a
similar situation.

------
neilk
Put your own oxygen mask on before helping others.

~~~
avdd_
This.

The best way to reciprocate is to commit to being the best "you" you can be.
Good things will flow naturally from that.

------
vellum
I don't think you should feel obligated to give back. Just focus on your
recovery. Maybe the next time a "depressed hacker" thread pops up, post your
own experiences and what worked for you.

------
Beltiras
As someone that you corresponded with a bit I am glad to hear you got help and
got your problems sorted.

I want to share a bit why I wanted to help with the rest of HN. I throughout
my life thought many ailments were my "problem", ranging from simple
depression, bipolar, alcoholism, drug dependancy and tried the methods
successful for each one to "cure me" to no avail.

A couple of years ago however a psychologist gave me his opinion of ADD. Just
simply knowing what it was has helped me enormously. It gave me a set of tools
to fight the issue. It turns out that all of those other things were
epiphenomena of the ADD, parts of the vicious cycle of the upswing when you
start seeing the light, elation with a new achieved high you get from some
measure of success, followed by the eventual downfall and depression when you
see that you are still not making headway. This cycle would repeat and still
affects me a bit.

In my case what helped was a stricter regiment of food supplements (especially
D, Omega, B6, B12 and calcium) and using Mountain Dew (yes, I know it's a
horrid substance) to elevate myself in the afternoon. This coupled with
Mindfulness meditation allows me to stay relatively productive. I'm in the
process of getting medication for ADD after reading Flower for Algernon and
realizing that refusing medication is akin to Charlie refusing the operation
(read the book if you haven't, it's remarkably well written).

Before this realization and change in behavior I was flunking out of CompSci @
University. After that change I managed a whole year of full coursework and
graduation. I managed to get a job and am managing to achieve the goals we (me
and my boss) set for my work.

My point is: You might think you have a specific problem but in reality you
might have another problem, but the symptom is what you notice. ADD should
really have been obvious when you look @ my life a certain way (having studied
everything from medicine to economics to accounting to philosophy and finally
CompSci). I had seen many professionals and only one of them hit the proper
diagnosis. The funny thing was once I knew the problem, I had tons of tools I
had learned about elsewhere to combat it and the only reason I think he was
right is that the methods worked!

One of the things that keep me focused is helping others. It kinda gives me a
good reason to maintain myself in fit spiritual condition (agnostic, spiritual
here simply means connected with my fellow man). A friend of mine is
graduating this spring and he tells me he wouldn't be, if I weren't helping
him with his maths. Once he graduates, I need to find someone else to help. It
gives me strength to know that the help I received, I can pay forward. I'm
glad far_far_away is doing that too.

~~~
jjsz
I've been neglecting my ADHD for two years now and I finally set up an
appointment. I keep having the same high and lows and the cycle doesn't stop
and it doesn't feel right conforming but I'm going to try the pills anyways
and see if it helps.

It's nothing that I worried about but I didn't want to keep neglecting
suggestions and missing an opportunity for something that can turn out to be a
benefit that increases the productivity of my lifestyle.

Sometimes that's what it takes, the only way you'll figure out if you don't
need them is by trying them out.

~~~
Beltiras
Pills are just one part of a solution. Proper framing of your routine is
important. Goal-oriented training is also good. Lack of focus is our dilemma.
Everything that gets us on a track and keeps us there is beneficial.

~~~
jjsz
I used to use Google Tasks, and then that became a data dump of information
and ideas of what to do next (personally) and what to do next (business wise)
on top of what to do next (on specific projects and different projects). Then
I switched to gqueues, then some other to dos that I don't remmeber, I think
the standard one that comes on the iPod and other ones..the last one I used
was any.do + some sort of combination of things to read with evernote.

They (any.do+evernote) are still the same data dump and nothing really beats
off my current set up which is simply google calendar, post it notes on
mirrors and walls, behind doors and other places. That's the reminder and
keeping in focus part. What I'm really looking for is a Google Glass AR app to
visualize statistics and basically the game of life and to have it in my field
of vision at least turned on every 15 minutes throughout my whole day.

It's funny that people with ADHD, or any other mental condition are more prone
to accept transhumanistic technology without worrying about dehumanization.

I'm completely fine walking with a Vegeta-like scouter to stay on task.
Eventually it'll become habit, like the post it notes.

I can also completely accept some sort of solar powered tattoo, in the shape
of a watch or anything that'll allow the tattoo to create a hologram, that
beams like a simple pager of my next thing to do, powered with an API
transmitted through my phone through Bluetooth.

You know one of these days I'll tackle funding a project that helps ADHD
people with different ways of learning and tackling tasks.

~~~
Beltiras
I so totally relate to your way of thinking. For me it was Google Cal and
Android sync. The droid was simply an extension of the web interface pinging
me with things to do and where to go.

------
S4M
Hi! I am really glad to read this. I remember your first post, and wanted to
send you an email, but felt that I didn't have much to say and finally I
didn't send it.

If you want to give something back, I would suggest to post what you did to
beat your depression, it will probably help someone who goes through a similar
situation.

------
j45
I'm not sure if you owe anyone anything. Ultimately the right kind of people
lend their voice to supporting someone because someone did it for them. if you
paid them back somehow, would it be the same as taking the time to support
someone else in your future when you come across a situation.

Being given to or cared for unimaginably often makes us feel like sharing it,
be it giving it back, or doing it for others. Whatever you do, know that
there's probably more than a few people that would probably be happiest if you
join them in being a giver and keeping kindness and goodness fashionable. In
other words your gratitude is not a debt to repay, but maybe another chance to
participate in our universal responsibility for our human family by helping
others not feel alone, and maybe a little more understood.

------
kmfrk
You are already helping by telling your story here. People who feel the same
way you did now have a story of someone in their situation overcoming their
depression. Your example is already helping others.

As such, anyone who feels the same way should feel free to comment here to
reach out or just vent.

------
cojourneo
First, let me say that I am so happy that the OP is doing better.

We'd love to join forces with the OP (and anyone else) to "found a help
network for hackers." We actually have online discussion already planned on
March 20 to begin this process:

[http://workshops.cojourneo.com/workshops/Surviving-the-
Start...](http://workshops.cojourneo.com/workshops/Surviving-the-Startup-Life-
The-Toll-of-Merging-Identity-and-Work-45)

It features two "legends" who are uniquely experienced to guide these efforts:
Parker J. Palmer & Jerry Colonna.

Everyone is invited. I'd love for the OP or anyone else to contact me at
kevin@cojourneo.com if you'd like to join forces. We can make a difference
together.

------
ibudiallo
A thank you letter is not homework, and has no due date. If you feel like you
have to reply to every body remember that you are not on a schedule. Take your
time. You are the one in need of help.

------
kposehn
Your life is most definitely worth living, even though it may not feel like
it. You can rest assured of that.

------
anx
HackersHelp I'm in! I really love the Idea! A good starting point for these
sorts of things has always been founding an IRC-channel ;)

------
neogodless
While the HN crowd have lots of things in common, especially those things that
make us human, what things are you especially proud of, strengths that you
feel are somewhat unique to you, the things you really enjoy doing and the
kinds of problems you prefer tackling?

------
logn
"I would not say that my life is worth living right now"

One day it will be, that is sure. Keep fighting.

~~~
logn
OP, I should add that that's your sickness talking. You will beat that. It's
like saying you feel cold when you have a fever: just a normal symptom of a
normal illness, and like a fever it's life threatening.

------
nfriedly
I'm not sure how to tell you how to give back but I have a couple of
suggestions that might help you figure it out on your own:

Love Does by Bob Goff - <http://bobgoff.com/love-does/>

A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Million_Miles_in_a_Thousand_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Million_Miles_in_a_Thousand_Years)

I just recently finished both of these and found them incredibly fun and
inspiring. And contrary to what some of the posts on this thread seems to be
saying, I think giving is one of the best ways to improve your life.

------
jimmychu0807
I think you are not obligated to return back the favor to "this" community,
per se. Continue live the life everyday with gratitude and love, (and remember
to create something great :) ). You can return the favor by caring the people
around you, those who need your help, and continue to pass on the message of
love and caring.

In fact, in this world, I think somehow we are all connected. Even you in
Germany and I in HK and we have never met. But like now, I am communicating
with you. And hopefully thru these random and small actions everyday, we can
continue to pass on the positive energy and influences to people around us.

Take care!

------
brador
Today you, tomorrow me. Don't worry about it.

------
sirspazzolot
I think a support network for depressed hackers is a great idea, and I'd love
to help out in some way (though I'm sort of lacking in technical skill).

That said, I also agree with what dandrews says:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5348693> Don't overexert yourself trying
to help. If you think helping others will help you, then sure, go right ahead!
But please be focused on your own recovery. We'll need a stable leader if we
want to do this right ;)

------
rikacomet
Giving up is easy, Continuing is Hard, is what most people think, but though
the first part is true, Continuing in face of mounting odds is easy, if you
just follow a good health regime, and keep yourself surrounded by people you
can talk to and be with at ease.

Every life is worth living, you just need to ask for help at the right place,
and people will help you see how important your life is.

Yes, their can be a separate tag SAVE@HN for threads from HN users in
distress, If it even helps save 1 life, it would be damn worth it!

------
triplesec
The best way to give back might be to collate and share with us the advice you
received (private issues anonymised), so that we and our friends who may need
it can also benefit. Here on ths thread, or on its own thread, but linked
here. Good luck and seriously thank you for having the courage to ask the
question! There will be _many_ silent people on this board who still don't
have that courage, but are longing for some help.

------
merinid
Hi there - I am happy to see you assert yourself and come back to the
community with such a positive voice. Thank you for being open to the
attention people have given you. Don't worry about giving back, but look
forward to it. The idea will come to you and you will know immediately that it
is the right one. Believe in yourself, and keep f __*ing hacking.

------
orangethirty
I'm proud of you.

------
lefinita
Just make sure you have a good life, maybe it's the best thing you can give
back. A gratitude for yourself.

------
teja1990
My respect for the community just grows day after day! And, I'm happy that you
feel better now, I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands who are touched by
your story. Your story certainly helps them believe that it is possible to get
out of depression and be happy.

------
ElliotH
I'm glad the world seems like a brighter place now. I didn't see your original
request, but I know some of that feeling. Keep with it. Picking yourself up,
and letting others pick you up is something to be really proud of.

------
xijuan
I am one of the people who has emailed you. I am glad to hear your reply
here!!! And I am glad to hear that you did get help. I understand how you
feel..I really do...

------
giis
Very glad to hear, you are getting better now :)

------
iterationx
Volunteer somewhere like a soup kitchen or something like that on our behalf.
Give love and you will feel love.

------
el_don_almighty
<http://bluehackers.org/>

Has anyone looked into this org?

Seems like a good resource for us

