
Ask HN: Can I be “put on a list” for contacting foreign researchers? - jamesmurray
I may or may not be a scientist doing frontier research in the areas of information theory, NLP or deep learning.<p>Some of the research I am doing may have very important applications. One project may be to create novel data ex-filtration strategies involving deep learning and linguistics that allow the concealment of important messages in plain text. Another project may involve the creation of a way of profiling computers users using special  measures of their interactions with standard human computer interfaces.<p>Both of these applications have pro-social uses, such in the first case supporting whistle blowers who are restricted to locked down systems, or in the second case helping to filter out state-sponsored bad actors on social media in a way that fundamentally cannot be concealed. These can also be used in negative ways, that I&#x27;ll leave to the imagination.<p>In the full academic spirit, I want to be able to communicate with the best researchers in my fields, which may include Chinese scholars. Separately, everyone here should know that if I&#x27;m in a Five Eyes country, which I am a citizen of, my emails to anyone in these countries will be picked up and read.<p>My question is: Should I be worried about contacting or building relationships with Chinese scholars for the purposes of furthering my research?<p>I&#x27;m worried I&#x27;ll basically be put on a list that affects my future travel or employment. This is despite no bad actions or intentions on my part and the various nominal freedoms and rights I have. Is there any precedent for what I&#x27;m saying and does this interact with my profile in my field?
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bhouston
Generally all emails are read by the five eyes as well as China in some
automated way I believe.

I think if you do research for spying purposes you'll eventually get attention
from someone and you may need to figure out which side you want to be aligned
with if it is good. If it is not useful, and this is likely the case given no
prior, then this is just idle talk.

I prefer to stay away from these things as the intrigue youll run into as an
independent researcher is just not worth the hassle. Go get a job at a three
letter agency or something like that.

Seriously do not get between China and the US as an independent researcher. It
isn't worth it, especially if it is just intellectual curiousity.

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gumby
Are you a US citizen? I am not (I have a green card) so won't even sign a
greenpeace petition. A legal ruling during the Reagan administration made it
clear that green card holders do not have first amendment protection.

Even US citizens need to be careful these days:
[https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/983418121808760833](https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/983418121808760833)

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jimmies
I think the problem here is that you want to have your cake and eat it, too.
The short answer is: You can't have both. Either you do what you need to do,
or you fear for various bad consequences that might or might not happen in
life and don't get things done.

You can't expect bad things to happen to you when you do nothing, but you
can't expect good things happen to you when you do nothing, either. If you
fear it, then don't do it.

E(x) = P(x) * Return(x)

When you do nothing E(do_nothing) = 100% * 0 = 0, When you do something, try
to evaluate E(do_something) = E(bad) + E(good), and see if E(do_something) > 0
or E(do_something) < 0.

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maxander
I have to say, I find it remarkably ironic that a researcher developing
surveillance technologies has this much concern over being surveiled. I'm also
inclined to note that the argument "these technologies with obvious, profound
antisocial uses have some feasible prosocial uses _also_ " doesn't justify the
work.

Having gotten that off my chest; you're probably worrying about nothing, at
least in terms of impact on your day-to-day activities- if the U.S. or aligned
nation started curtailing the travel of computer scientists, it would be all
over HN for weeks. Maybe if you want to go work for your country's
intelligence agency someday (an obvious move, with your interests) they might
look over your file before an interview. But perhaps in that case, contacts
with Chinese researchers would be seen as an _asset_ \- the CIA and similar
organizations have been known to try to recruit cooperative foreign-employed
scientists in interesting fields, for various purposes, and to use their own
experts in those fields to make contact.

It might matter if you're a "real academic," i.e., affiliated with a
university and conducting your research in "conventional" settings. For an
academic to _not_ be talking to out-of-country colleagues would look pretty
odd, in most fields. But if you're just some dude in your basement chatting
with Chinese espionage experts, that might raise some red flags. :)

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mswen
Will your outreach be noticed, recorded and stored? Almost certainly. Will it
impact your ability to freely travel and gain employment? I don't know. Maybe
not today, but who knows how the winds of politics will blow.

~~~
jackgolding
I agree with this. I worked with some Chinese lecturers as part of a course
and we (European members of the group) joked about things being read which at
the time came across as insensitive as they had issues with this before.

I don't think it has put me on a list though - well maybe to the same extent
as reading 4chan...

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akkat
I don't know it it helps but one of the reasons that the nra was against
banning guns from people on the no fly list was that there was no legal
process to get in or off the list. Am angry bureaucrat can put anyone
(including senators) on the list for whatever reason.

So, based on that I guess that there is a non insignificant change that you
will be put on the no fly list

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Rjevski
If you want to advance science and research, you can always leak it
anonymously over Tor; if you do it properly you will have no repercussions.

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andrewmcwatters
> Should I be worried about contacting or building relationships with Chinese
> scholars for the purposes of furthering my research?

Yes.

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anaccountwow
no...

