
Is Google building a hulking floating data center in SF Bay? - chasef
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57608585-93/is-google-building-a-hulking-floating-data-center-in-sf-bay/
======
fibbery
Great article. It's nice to see journalists do actual investigative work, even
if it is for something like this. Today's "journalism" seems to be all link-
bait opinion pieces mixed in with copy-pastes from twitter.

~~~
nraynaud
I was thinking exactly the converse: why so much effort for gossip? It's pure
tech celebrity gossip in my opinion and brings nothing to the party. Why not
spend some more effort on the link between google and NSA? We still don't know
how they steal our data.

~~~
jameshart
Don't you think that one of the interesting issues raised by a floating data
center might be a jurisdictional one? Is it possible that google is actually
considering putting some of their infrastructure beyond sovereign control?
Maybe this isn't just gossip...

~~~
nraynaud
this has been answered, it's not possible. It's about making substantial
business in the US.

The territorial water is 12 miles wide, it's far. Exclusive economic zone is
200 miles wide, it's really far. Who want to be that far from the coast in the
winter without a good reason on the most powerful and dangerous ocean? In the
article they say 3 to 7 miles, that's completely territorial and for a good
reason: on the first winter storm they'll be plenty happy with sovereign state
helping them shelter the thing and save everybody.

Moreover, how do you anchor the thing in international waters? It's very
complicated and expensive if the water is deep (which is more or less implied
by 200 miles from the shore).

------
apaprocki
There are actually 4 "vessels". Look at the names -- using binary :)

    
    
      BAL0001	BY AND LARGE LLC	*	*	C & C MARINE & REPAIR LLC	2010	Freight Barge	2164.0	249.6
      BAL0010	BY AND LARGE LLC	*	*	C & C MARINE	2011	Passenger Barge (Inspected)	2520.0	260.1
      BAL0011	BY AND LARGE LLC	*	*	C & C MARINE	2011	Passenger Barge (Inspected)	2520.0	260.1
      BAL0100	BY AND LARGE LLC	*	*	C & C MARINE	2012	Freight Barge	2164.0	249.6

~~~
joezydeco
FYI, "Buy N Large" was the fictional Costco-like store from Pixar's WALL-E.

~~~
chc
I kind of doubt that these two names are related except that they both derive
from the same common idiom.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Also "by and large" is a nautical term meaning (roughly) "whether sailing
against the wind or sailing with the wind".

~~~
stevenrace
While we're speculating on the meaning behind the name(s) RE:wind, remember
that Google acquired Makani Power a while back. They build wind generated
power systems using large kites. What better place to put them into production
than at sea where there isn't much worry about crashing to the ground.

[http://www.makanipower.com/home/](http://www.makanipower.com/home/)

~~~
radiorental
unlikely that the Makani planes would be run from a ship. They each have a
huge arc, much larger than the diameter of a traditional turbine.

Furthermore, what's the concern with them crashing in to the ground? It's not
like they plan to install them directly over populated areas.

~~~
jamornh
From the website: "Opens up large new areas of wind resource, including the
vast resources offshore above deep water"[1]

Doesn't sound that far fetched that they would try to anchor this to the barge
to try to tap that potential.

[1] - [http://www.makanipower.com/why-airborne-
wind/](http://www.makanipower.com/why-airborne-wind/)

------
numbsafari
Something similar is being outfitted in Portland, ME.

[http://www.pressherald.com/news/Clues_emerging_about_mystery...](http://www.pressherald.com/news/Clues_emerging_about_mystery_structure_on_barge_in_harbor_.html?searchterm=barge)

The OP is a much better article (The Press Herald is garbage).

My original guess for the barge-building in Portland was a ocean-based prison
facility for the government to use for interrogations. But it's seeming like
the floating data center idea is much more likely.

~~~
mjolk
This is somewhat of a tangent, but how is the tech scene in Portland, ME? It's
my hometown and I've had thoughts at various times about returning and setting
up shop.

~~~
justinsteele
The "scene" is cool. There are local meetups, some small, some mid sized.
Monktoberfest just drew quite the crowd. As the other commenter said, there
ain't much for investment though, and the companies are a mix of web
boutiques, large companies (Unum, Idexx, etc), and a startup here or there. I
work remotely, which gives me the benefits of being in Portland while making a
NYC salary, but even when I was working for a Portland firm I was still making
a good wage.

~~~
noise
+1, I've been working remotely from Portland for 11 years now, great place to
live but tech jobs are scarce vs. Boston, NYC, SF.

~~~
mjolk
Are you a remote-worker as well? My concern would be that my company in NYC
would decide to let me go remote, then change its mind due later about
telecommuting and it would put me in a rough spot.

------
justanother
My first thought: "Finally I'm interested in applying at Google, if it
involves using my captain's license!"

My second thought: "Meh, the job interview probably involves writing a
breadth-first search algorithm to search for known pirates in the graph of
nearby ports."

~~~
Johnie
No, you mapreduce the Pirate search. Send out 100 workers to check on the
nearby ports and see which ones come back.

You need to think at Google scale.

~~~
pilsetnieks
Or you can be sneaky. Put out some irresistable, yet covert job offers for
pirates in the necessary ports, and see where the applications come from.

~~~
Johnie
Or put a "Report a Pirate" bounty and crowdsource it.

~~~
jyz
but how do you confirm the validity of the reports

~~~
yk
There are two types of reports, fraudulent ones and real ones. The fraudulent
ones will come from everywhere, while the real reports come only from pirate
infested harbors. Therefore just subtract the mean report density and what
remains should be random fluctuations around zero plus the real reports. So if
a harbor has more than some threshold of reports, then it is pirate invested.

~~~
pilsetnieks
At this point in the discussion, you could probably correlate it with the
number of the letters "R" in the reports. Because we all know that it's the
pirates' favorite letter.

~~~
ademarre
Arrrrgh you would think so, but no, it's the C.

~~~
lstamour
Ah, laughed out loud for this string of comments. Great job, all. And not a
verge "combo breaker"-comment in sight.

------
deeths
The middle of the ocean could be a a very high margin location for IaaS
hosting.

Due to speed-of-light delays, some of the ideal locations for hosting high-
speed trading arbitrages are in the middle of the ocean. Being half way
between two exchanges would allow you to notice a small difference in price of
some commodity in two different exchanges and buy and sell microseconds before
your competitors on the mainland know that there's an arbitrage opportunity.
See
[http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/stocktrade.cfm](http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/stocktrade.cfm)

~~~
kordless
If this actually worked, there would be boats sitting in the middle of the
Atlantic and Pacific with computers on them. I have no idea if they are
sitting there, but I'm pretty sure if it was an idea that worked, it would be
done by now.

~~~
dragonwriter
It's a fairly common (and silly) dismissal of any new effort that "if it
worked, someone else would already be doing it".

~~~
judk
It is theoretically sound: TANSTAAFL

~~~
dragonwriter
It is theoretically sound if you assume that the present state is equivalent
to the long-term equilibrium (e.g., ignore friction.)

------
nostromo
I was Googling to find what a boat-based wave-powered generator would look
like, and I found this interesting diagram:

[http://www.greenpatentblog.com/2011/12/08/fraunhofers-
mobile...](http://www.greenpatentblog.com/2011/12/08/fraunhofers-mobile-wave-
energy-harvester-barges-in/)

~~~
tlarkworthy
I don't think wave power is deployed successfully yet[1]. The cooling would
not be a leap of technology though.

[1] Its under development
[http://www.pelamiswave.com/](http://www.pelamiswave.com/) but I don't think
its finished yet.

~~~
nostromo
Yeah, that's why I was trying to figure out how they would power it.

Diesel generators seem... unGoogley.

~~~
tlarkworthy
Plug it in to the mains? I don't think you want tons of servers in the middle
of the ocean. How would you get the data out without fibres anyway?

~~~
pilsetnieks
Why would you want it to be in the middle of the ocean? Keep it close the the
coast, perhaps hook into a cable landing station (where submarine comm cables
come ashore.) Running a submarine power cable also doesn't seem too far-
fetched.

------
nickzoic
Finally, something with better bandwidth and worse latency than Andy
Tanenbaum's station wagon.

> Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling
> down the highway. \-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Computer Networks, 4th ed., p. 91

------
Udo

      Google was granted a patent in 2009 for a floating data center
    

Sigh, there is a _patent_ on floating data centers? For fuck's sake...

~~~
raldi
There's a patent for one specific, detailed design for a floating datacenter.
Not for the mere _idea_ of a floating datacenter.

~~~
skj
I'd be shocked if claim #1 wasn't "floating data center". They always start
out super broad.

------
joezydeco
How does the data get to/from the platform? Microwaves? Can that work from a
slightly moving platform?

My wacky guess would have been off-shore offices for employees that can't get
H1Bs.

~~~
WalterSear
I doubt it; they would have just bought a cruise ship.

Besides, Tata and Wipro have demonstrated that you can just bring people here
to work, coop them 8 to a suite in extended stay hotel rooms, and with
sufficient lawyering and a couple of hoops, visas be damned.

~~~
raverbashing
Wait, what? I think I missed this one

------
cargo8
Very interesting...

Any chance that this will mean the Govt can't subpoena data from this data
center if it is floating far enough from the US coast? Or does it not matter
because clearly the US will be the closest harbor?

~~~
enjo
It has to connect to the U.S. somehow. So they can still subpeona data moving
through the switch.

There's going to be a cable connecting this to the mainland, which one could
argue means the ship is moored to the U.S. coastline?

Might be a fun legal battle.

~~~
duaneb
> So they can still subpeona data moving through the switch

Well if they weren't an american corporation they would be doing this anyway.
Besides, perhaps the most important data wouldn't ever have to be transmitted
into the country.

------
musashibaka
So it appears as though Google is looking towards a future where they are an
independent country, or at the very least free from regulation, visa-a-vis
Seasteading.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading)

~~~
hristov
No, this does not appear at all. It appears they want to save on real estate
and cooling costs by having floating data centers.

Google has owns so much real estate and immovable property in the US it is
silly to suppose they are thinking of leaving the country just because they
built a couple of barges.

~~~
raverbashing
> It appears they want to save on real estate and cooling costs by having
> floating data centers.

Is this really that expensive that's still advantageous considering the costs
of a barge + electricity + data link to the sea + fuel + maintenance ?

~~~
nandhp
Not only is cold seawater usable for cooling, but the article mentions the
feasibility of using the sea for power generation.

------
DanBC
I hope they fit it with sub-surface portholes and webcams.

The article keeps saying "huge", but really that's tiny for a ship. Google
could buy an old cruise liner and fit several of those inside. Or maybe Google
is going to buy more little ships and plonk one of these in each?

I hope that they have adequate security, because all that gold and copper is
worth stealing for some people.

~~~
nraynaud
I guess they'd better make the first one not too ambitious and ramp up later.

~~~
cpeterso
It's still in beta.

~~~
hnriot
I see. we're slashdot now.

~~~
sneak
Well, actually* it was Stack Exchange that first identified the poison that is
metadiscussion.

* tongue firmly in cheek as I knowigly contribute to the problem in the hopes of educating everyone away from it

------
dharbin
Somebody told them about docker and this is what they did....

------
blackjack48
Maybe Google will put pressure on the city to upgrade the island's power grid,
which has had serious reliability issues in recent years:
[http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/treasure-island-
endur...](http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/treasure-island-endures-yet-
another-power-outage/Content?oid=2540870)

------
girvo
This will get lost in the rest of the comments here, and the article was
comprehensive, but:

A friend of mine just got back from Treasure Island (she works as a stewardess
on millionaires boats), and hung out with a lot of the guys working on this.
This is definitely Google's doing, and she was told that it is indeed a data-
centre, but that's all the info she got.

------
seanv
another cool thing about floating data centers in california is they're pretty
much earthquake proof... built in shock absorbers (aka water).

You can probably charge a premium for easily accessible highly secure data I
would imagine.

... assuming megalodon isn't still around

~~~
VikingCoder
An earthquake can cause a tsunami. Depending on conditions, the tsunami wave
could be hundreds of feet high. So, not earthquake "proof."

~~~
jmillikin
Tsunamis are not giant walls of water like what you see in disaster movies.
They're more like an unending tide: the water just keeps rising until it
floods the area. Anything floating loose on the water at the time is at risk
of being carried inland, but is unlikely to be completely destroyed.

A floating data center barge anchored a mile offshore is as close as you can
get to tsunami-proof. At worst, its connection to the mainland would be
severed if the tsunami destroyed the local land-based telecom infrastructure.
Any data located on the barge would still be intact until communications could
be restored.

~~~
14113
Hence why they're also sometimes called "Tidal waves"

------
qwerta
Reminds me [1]. Gmail like AI breaks loose and uses fully automated floating
data centers. Highly recommend.

[1] book named "Avogadro Corp: The Singularity Is Closer Than It Appears:

~~~
nandhp
That sounds like the game "Endgame:Singularity":
[http://www.emhsoft.com/singularity/](http://www.emhsoft.com/singularity/)

------
joshdance
I hope it is a floating data center. If not, it is a fun detective type
article.

~~~
Glyptodon
If it is built by Google and it's not a floating data center, I wonder what it
could be.

~~~
joveian
It's the opt-out village :).

~~~
smoyer
Not many units there!

------
richardw
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a barge filled with hard drives.

------
late2part
Today we went sailing. I took ~62 higher res jpg pictures of this area.

You can see these here:
[http://tinyurl.com/floatingcontainers](http://tinyurl.com/floatingcontainers)

~~~
freakyterrorist
Awesome Initiative!!!

------
panhandlr
It's startup/incubator space:
[http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/off/4148978964.html](http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/off/4148978964.html)

~~~
mulligan
.

------
cookingrobot
Maybe this is just so their data centers can be movable between cities so they
can negotiate better tax agreements and power contracts.

~~~
walshemj
Or to cover peaks like say the Olympics just anchor it near to where it is
needed.

------
natch
Actual original reporting, wow, sadly unusual these days for any publication.
My respect for CNET might be resurrected.

------
walshemj
Actually it just struck me this might be part of Googles DR plan for
California getting hit by the big one

------
Cthulhu_
I can see it already.

In a dystopian future, when the world as we know it is covered in water, one
mythical ship traverses the oceans, powered by stratosphere kites or nuclear
power. Nobody knows where it's from.

All we know is that many years ago, it became sentient.

And its name is Google.

------
ctdonath
Anyone consider what the real estate & taxes savings will be with this? For
high demand areas where you'd like to set up a data center, something offshore
might save a fortune in land costs and property taxes alone.

~~~
nikcub
It likely can't be justified on power and real estate costs alone. There are
counties in Oregon that give away land and provide very cheap hydro power for
data centers.

~~~
ctdonath
I was referring to areas where real estate is extremely expensive, and data
demands warrant close proximity thereto - such as San Francisco. Floating a
data center on "free" water surface may be cheaper yet still have thick short
data pipes to intended customers.

------
mrb
With movable data centers, Google can easily move them across oceans, as
popularity and usage of different Google services inevitably shifts across
countries over time, in order to be closer to wherever their users are to
reduce network latency.

For example an "Orkut data center" would have been very useful to Google in
2008, when they announced they were moving its operations to Brazil because
somewhat unpredictably this is where their core user base developed the most:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkut](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkut)

~~~
Swannie
Or you could just shift the processes to a newly commissioned, and therefore
cheaper per cpu/ram/storage per dollar!

~~~
judk
A completely new data center takes years to build and deploy.

~~~
Swannie
Sure, but so will finding an appropriate cable landing site, getting a mini-
substation built near that landing site, etc.

Cable landing is a hard problem.

------
Pxtl
A massive floating data-centre out in international waters would be a pretty
powerful protection against governmental interference in your business. Well,
except for the military kind.

~~~
smacktoward
It's been tried: [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/sealand-and-
haven...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/sealand-and-havenco/)

~~~
noir_lord
Not really.

It's a similar idea but comparing Google putting it's resources behind a
similar idea to something like Sealand is not really a fair comparison.

The outcome could be vastly different.

------
narfquat
Seems pretty telling to me, with the patent and coffee shop cashier
testimonial.

I wonder how the hardware will hold up to the environmental harshnesses of the
open water? Or even just sea spray...

~~~
mark212
I thought that was the best part: corp spends tens of thousands in lawyer time
and craftiness to be stealthy, but forgets that it gives corp-branded charge
cards to its employees, who won't spend $3.50 on a latte while on company time
(and forget to ditch their badges when offsite).

~~~
lstamour
Reminds me of the fake Apple company names and back stories when they were
building the iPhone and had to meet with cellular companies. (I guess Steve
Jobs was less recognizable back then?)

------
mcgwiz
Just enough leaks to conclude it's a Google-owned project. Although I can't
offer an alternative explanation, I'm a bit skeptical in this post-Snowden
world.

------
dspeyer
A datacenter in/near SF doesn't make much sense. Electricity there is just too
expensive. And, no, the waves in the bay aren't a solution.

I suppose you might build a datacenter there and then ship it to some third-
world port where you don't want to do construction.

While I love the idea of a gmail datacenter in international waters with
automatic guns to deter boarders, that really wouldn't fit Google's current
political strategy.

------
breischl
I believe this was literally Chapter 1 (ok, maybe chapter 2 or 3) of "Avogadro
Corp: The Singularity Is Closer Than It Appears" [1]. Life imitates art, I
guess? Or maybe that author is more prescient than I gave him credit for.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Avogadro-Corp-Singularity-Appears-
eboo...](http://www.amazon.com/Avogadro-Corp-Singularity-Appears-
ebook/dp/B006ACIMQQ)

------
peterwwillis
Can somebody explain the point behind the secrecy? What does Google have to
gain by taking all these steps to hide they're the ones building it?

~~~
gojomo
So that the reveal can be done on their own timing, only when things are
ready, for maximum desired effect.

Trickling details out about something still taking shape leads to expectation
problems, and perhaps less favorable coverage (in magnitude and tone) at
intended launch time.

------
quink
[http://www.subpartners.net/cables/apx-
east.html](http://www.subpartners.net/cables/apx-east.html)

[http://www.commsday.com/commsday-australasia/slatterys-
radic...](http://www.commsday.com/commsday-australasia/slatterys-radical-
funding-plan-for-proposed-australia-singaporeus-cables)

------
bonemachine
Just wondering what the effect of all the waste heat will be on (what's left
of) the Bay's ecosystem.

------
acl2149
Google uses Treasure Island for holiday parties, perhaps that's what explains
the presence of employees?

------
tux
This floating data centers could be used for more privacy/security. Very
interesting article thanks.

~~~
cakeface
I am having great mental images of pirate ships full of hackers attacking
Google floating data centers in international waters. The floating data
centers will of course be stoutly defended by a combination of machine gun
wielding robots and Google engineers with laser beam interfaces for their
Google Glass.

------
moonie1
Could this be a routing center for CC payments? That would be a very
interesting tax evasion method...

------
randartie
It's likely that this is a way to get around the visa limits the US is having.
If you build a giant cruise ship and park it on the bay next to google then
you can have engineers working near HQ without legally requiring them to have
visas!

~~~
ams6110
The idea of a bunch of non-citizen engineers working (and living?) in a
windowless floating cargo container doesn't seem to me to be something that
would be a great idea, PR-wise.

------
erikj
Sounds kinda like the fictional Arsenal Gear ship:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_%28weapon%29#Arsenal...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_%28weapon%29#Arsenal_Gear)

------
vxxzy
Could this be an attempt to skirt the rules and laws imposed by the US on our
(Google's) data? Would Google have to provide data under a warrant if said
data is physically located in international waters?

~~~
munin
if the ship is under US flag, yes

------
GuerraEarth
[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alison-winfield-burns/rich-
and...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alison-winfield-burns/rich-and-busy-
potentate-e_b_3951340.html)

------
6ren
International waters, immune to NSA?

Also, does wave power really yield sufficient energy?

~~~
shirro
Much more likely it belongs to the NSA.

------
wfunction
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a GoogleX project of some sort.

------
willvarfar
How would a data centre on a barge cope with constant motion (hurtful for
cheap spinning discs?) and data link latency? Presumably cable doesn't work
well if the barge moves?

------
wikwocket
_> putting data centers inside shipping containers is already a well-
established practice._

Is this true? Does anyone know why? The article seems to assume it without
saying why.

~~~
Jtsummers
I'll try to find the link in a moment, but Microsoft was doing something like
this 5+ years back. The premise was similar to Google using commodity hardware
in their datacenters. Throw together "compute blocks", set them all up and
when performance degrades sufficiently you remove the container and install a
new one in its place.

EDIT:

Also, I'm surprised I got the time right, for some reason 2005-2012 is one big
blur to me and I usually pick the wrong end of that range when guessing when
things happened. It also seems that none of these articles mention what I
recalled reading in articles years ago about just replacing a box once its
performance degrades. I'm either misremembering or that ended up being a non-
feature once fielded.

[http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/04/01/micro...](http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/04/01/microsoft-
embraces-data-center-containers/)

A more recent article, this one is MS in VA:
[http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/02/boydton/](http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/02/boydton/)

A critique of the approach:
[http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9080738/6_reasons_why...](http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9080738/6_reasons_why_Microsoft_s_container_based_approach_to_data_centers_won_t_work)

~~~
breischl
The newest Azure data center in Iowa(?) was going to be open air. Basically a
pile of these containers in a field, with a big fence over it and a roof
similar to a big car-port (no walls). They figured it was going to be better
for cooling.

~~~
ams6110
Iowa? Doesn't sound like a great idea, they have tornadoes there, which can
easily throw shipping containers around.

~~~
breischl
Yep, outside Des Moines. I don't have a reference for the rest of it, that was
from conversations with MS employees.

[http://www.eweek.com/cloud/microsoft-parks-cloud-
over-700m-i...](http://www.eweek.com/cloud/microsoft-parks-cloud-
over-700m-iowa-data-center/)

------
ffrryuu
A place for those with no visa to the USA to work!

------
caycep
I can just see google hq now.

"Boy that was quite a storm last night...oh wait...gmail just floated away and
is halfway to hawai'i"

------
acr25
It might be a NON-HULKING floating data center.

------
Oculus
This could be part of Google's Project Loon. Instead of building a data center
in Africa why not ship one over.

------
chromaton
It's being built at the same hangar where they shot the Battlebots TV shows.

------
aluhut
Bruce Sterling will love this.

------
mkhalil
Well looks like we're going to need to Trevor to do some investigation.

------
hardwaresofton
Maybe they're just trying to lay some underwater cable... to Japan

------
xd
How do you get a patent for a "floating data center"..

~~~
theorique
Submit it to USPTO and other national or trans-national (e.g. EU) patent
registries like any other patent.

This one's included in the article:
[https://www.google.com/patents/US7525207](https://www.google.com/patents/US7525207)

~~~
xd
Satire aside. My point was the ridiculousness of it. What's next, patents
covering putting data centers in space, under the sea or under stairs etc..

~~~
8_hours_ago
There's a Chinese patent on putting a data center in space [0], and a US
patent for a _partially_ submerged data center [1], but I can't find anything
for putting a data center under the stairs... you should patent it!

[0]
[https://www.google.com/patents/CN103186179A?cl=en](https://www.google.com/patents/CN103186179A?cl=en)

[1]
[https://www.google.com/patents/US20130044426](https://www.google.com/patents/US20130044426)

------
mortdeus
That or a metal gear. My hopes are on the latter.

------
Newzduniya
nice information regarding google building hulking floating data center.

