
Thai activist jailed under lese majeste laws for sharing an article on Facebook - DiabloD3
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/08/thai-activist-jailed-crime-sharing-article-facebook
======
geomark
It's really horrendous what is going on in Thailand with the military
dictatorship using the lese majeste laws to suppress any dissent. Many, many
people are serving long prison terms for it. Even insulting the king's dog can
draw a long sentence[1].

Don't expect the US to even condemn this stuff, much less take any action
against the country. Thailand's military is too cooperative in helping the US
do dirty business, like hosting the black site[2] at which current CIA Deputy
Director Gina Haspel[3] oversaw the torture of terrorism suspects.

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/thai-man-
faces...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/thai-man-faces-jail-
insulting-kings-dog-sarcastic-internet-post)

[2] [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/cia-
deputy-d...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/cia-deputy-
director-gina-haspel-linked-torture-thailand-black-site)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Haspel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Haspel)

~~~
briandear
WHat would the US be expected to do? If they try to “help,” they get
criticized for being imperialists, if they don’t help, it’s because of a CIA
conspiracy.

Should the U.S. get involved more with Turkey? How about sanctioning Mexico
for journalists being killed? Perhaps they should sanction Germany for
arresting someone for exercising free speech (despite it being against German
law.) Maybe Pakistan for tolerating revenge rapes order by local councils.
There is a lot of nastiness in the world, yet for the U.S. it’s damned if you
do, damned if you don’t.

Why doesn’t Europe do something about Thailand if we are suggesting that a
foreign power should “do” something?

~~~
geomark
Generally I agree. But that doesn't mean the US gov should be friendly with a
military dictator, ala Trump's invitation for Thailand's military dictator
Prayuth to visit[1]. Although arms sales to Thailand were initially put on
hold after the coup it seems they are back on[2]. And Thailand's human rights
abuses are not limited to free speech imprisonment. Human trafficking and
slavery in the fishing and shrimp farming industry continues unabated while
western markets continue purchasing the slave-produced products[3]. There are
more than enough reasons to apply sanctions to the regime but, as I said, it's
just too cooperative with US spooks to risk losing.

[1][https://www.voanews.com/a/thai-prime-minister-accepts-
trump-...](https://www.voanews.com/a/thai-prime-minister-accepts-trump-
invitation-visit-us/3832619.html)

[2][http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-thailand-
idUSKBN19K193](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-thailand-idUSKBN19K193)

[3][https://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2017/mar/30/t...](https://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2017/mar/30/thailand-failing-to-stamp-out-murder-slavery-fishing-
industry-starvation-forced-labour-trafficking)

~~~
bbarn
I'd be interested to know what end products these fish go to from point 3.

~~~
geomark
Investigative journalists publish reports every year or so. You can probably
find more recent ones, but here's one from three years ago[1]. Many of the big
supermarket chains are the end points for the slave-produced seafood products,
Walmart, Carrefour, Costco, Tesco and some others. I think last year a couple
of them threatened to stop buying from Thai suppliers, not sure if they made
good on it.

[1][https://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2014/jun/10/s...](https://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2014/jun/10/supermarket-prawns-thailand-produced-slave-labour)

------
josteink
This is where the slippery slope leads us when we create vague terms like
"hate"-speech which then criminalize.

The US is obviously nowhere Thailand, but just questioning the concept of and
(lacking) principles around "hate"-speech is enough for some people to
consider you a possible sexist, racist, troll... Or just a general "hater".

You know, someone who should be banned because they're obviously up to no
good.

~~~
athenot
No. Europe has had hate-speech laws for a while—separate from libel laws which
are a totally different story. What makes "hate speech" specific is its broad
recognition by an overwhelming portion of the population (including
historians), with facts & events to back up its consequences. It's very
different from "you said something that hurts my feelings", and it's purposely
narrow in its scope.

~~~
DarkKomunalec
I was unable to find polls directly on 'hate speech', but
[http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-
millen...](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-
ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/) says 49% support limiting
offensive speech, and 46% oppose such limits, in the EU - hardly an
'overwhelming' portion.

------
have_faith
> while thousands of users shared it, only Jutaphat was found to violate
> Thailand’s strict lese majeste laws against insulting, defaming, or
> threatening the monarchy

What can we practically do to help with situations like this far from our
normal realm of influence? Countries like NK get sanctions (rightfully), but
we don't seem to do anything as a country against things like this.

~~~
petepete
If enough light can be shed on this matter for it to make the regular news and
be seen by the masses, it might begin to have an impact on tourism, something
Thailand would definitely notice.

~~~
geomark
It's been more than 3 years since the military staged a coup and has been
ruthlessly suppressing dissent using the lese majesty laws and other laws they
enacted that make it illegal to protest against the government. Tourist
arrivals just keep increasing to record levels[1]. Tourists don't care, at
least not enough to choose a different destination.

[1][https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-
arrivals](https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals)

~~~
notahacker
The counter argument would be neighbouring Myanmar, which is remarkably
underdeveloped for tourists by comparison despite comparable tourist potential
(and oil money to invest in infrastructure) because its authoritarian
government has historically been boycotted, whereas Thailand's series of
mostly authoritarian governments interspersed with elections and coups have
usually played the international relations game just well enough to avoid
becoming a pariah state.

But it's quite difficult to find a tropical paradise destination with
progressive liberal democratic government

~~~
seanmcdirmid
You mean a "cheap" tropical paradise with a liberal democratic government. You
could always head off to Hawaii if you can afford it, or if you are in Asia,
Okinawa or Taiwan.

But for those of us on a more restricted budget, Thailand, Indonesia, and the
Philippines provide a better value. Thailand has always pulled through in
being worth it for me, especially when prices crash after a coup.

------
theBobBob
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-
majest%C3%A9](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9)

Was just reading up on Lèse majasté laws and didn't realize that quite a few
European countries still have them. Some are for insulting a foreign head of
state, like they have in Germany and Poland, and some are still for insulting
the royalty. There have actually been several recent prosecutions too.

------
sreeni_ananth
India had a similar law under the IT Act 66 A, which was struck down by the
Supreme Court two years back . [http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/sc-
judgement-on-secti...](http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/sc-judgement-on-
section-66a-of-the-information-and-technology-act/article7027977.ece)

If one feels offended they can file a law suit for defamation under the
various existing laws in the court.

------
patrickg_zill
I am curious if the law is enforced more strictly now, because the son of the
long time king seems to be a drug addled loser, who took the throne in late
2016.

[http://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-of-thailand-maha-
vajiral...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-of-thailand-maha-
vajiralongkorn-the-playboy)

Could the lesser amount of respect for the new king, and the increase in
enforcement, be linked?

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Cozumel
Would FB have a duty to disable the share button on posts like this?

If it's a 'bad' post and the user is in Thailand or similar place then either
disable the button or pop up a warning saying 'are you sure? this means a
lifetime in jail'. I could see it promoting self-censorship but also cases
like this would be reduced.

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jimmywanger
I guess that this is just a risk of going into a foreign country.

Unless you want to right wrongs all over the world, you go on vacation to
enjoy yourself. You chose to go to the country. If you don't agree with the
country's policies, vote with your feet. Don't go.

One of the pitfalls of going to a foreign country is that you don't know any
of the social mores and what's acceptable and what's not. Whenever I'm travel,
I always say please and thank you and am as polite as my limited language
allows.

Don't try to change laws/customs in foreign countries. In Thailand, you can't
step on currency or point the bottom of your feet at an image of a Buddha.
That's how they do things, if you want to do that, do it in your own country.

------
viach
So he intentially violated the laws of country he lives in, being in the
country at the moment of this act. This is not a wise decision, I would say.
There will be some kind of consequences and he should be ready for them.

~~~
jstanley
If a law is unjust, it's everybody's duty to violate it.

~~~
viach
Oh, really? So I would suggust you to go to the North Korea and give democracy
and civil rights talk there, publicly. No? Why not, are you ignoring your
duties or just being hypocrite? Nothing personal, just a thought experiment.

Edit: please give a thought out answer, not just silent downvote :)

~~~
ant6n
You will probably get replies when your own comments are sincere and thought
out.

~~~
viach
Oh, sure, you are right! And btw, I'm used to situations when my comments
don't get much love, so that I understand people are not obliged to reply. But
in this purticular situation it seems he/ she just left the ring after
screaming "ur fool!")

------
Pigo
I just realized how little I know about Thailand. It seems I only hear about
sex tourism, crazy drug stories, or actors dying mysteriously when it comes to
Thailand.

~~~
Angostura
It's a rather fab place (just come back) but it is important to understand
that they take their monarchy very _very_ seriously. Walking around Bangkok
and a large motorcade drives by? You do stop what you are doing and stand
respectfully.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
And stand before the movie starts.

------
davidreiss
This is why I despise censorship and control. Even against people like daily
stormers and neo-nazis.

Chinese tourists gets arrested for making silly nazi salutes. Everyone
celebrates it because that's german law.

This guy gets arrested for sharing silly articles. Everyone is upset he got
arrested for breaking thai law.

