
AT&T fined $100M after slowing down its ‘unlimited’ data - nvr219
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2015/06/17/att-just-got-hit-with-a-100-million-fine-after-slowing-down-its-unlimited-data/
======
mangeletti
To put this into perspective:

$100MM is 0.0759878% of AT&T's 2014 gross revenue, so less than 1/10th of 1%.

That's like earning a $100,000/yr salary, and then paying a $75.99 fine. It's
basically less than your average speeding ticket.

~~~
dragonwriter
> $100MM is 0.0759878% of AT&T's 2014 gross revenue

Which is completely irrelevant. To the extent a revenue comparison is
relevant, the relevant revenue isn't AT&T's 2014 gross revenue, its the
revenue over the period of the activities covered by the fine attributable
either to the unlimited data plans, or to other data plans to which people
switch _from_ unlimited plans once the slowdown was in place.

~~~
Alupis
It's more than just a fine -- it's a precedent that tells AT&T et al this
practice will not be tolerated.

5 years from now if AT&T resorts to this practice, you can bet the FCC et al
will have no problems levying a much more severe consequence.

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istvan__
We should stop lawyers from re-defining words like unlimited. We should make
sure that if somebody says unlimited in advertisment or product description it
really means unlimited. I know, I am an idealist. :)

~~~
hueving
So what does unlimited mean then in your definition? Even before they
throttle, you will be limited by the throughput of the cell tower.

~~~
msravi
FYI, "unlimited data" != "unlimited throughput". No one's asking for unlimited
throughput. What people who signed up thought they were getting was pretty
straightforward - unlimited data at the throughput promised. Period.

~~~
nathan_long
> unlimited data at the throughput promised

I'm with you, but I've noticed that ISPs generally state speeds using "up to".
Eg, AT&T's lowest U-verse tier gives you "Speeds up to 6Mbps".

Which is exactly the worst guarantee possible. "Don't worry, we certainly
won't give you more than 6Mbps!"

Of course, if you pay them more, they'll guarantee not to give you more than
18Mbps.

------
JoshGlazebrook
I kind of saw this coming after the whole Verizon fiasco when they tried to
throttle their LTE network and the FCC and media made it a frenzy and they
backed down. But then again, Verizon's main wireless spectrum they use for
their base layer of their LTE network has the open access rules attached to
them that pretty much forbids the throttling of any devices using the spectrum
and forcing them to allow any device on their network that is capable of using
it.

I'm glad I still have my Verizon unlimited data plan. I renewed my contract
(unlimited line is out of contract in August 2016), by using the transfer
upgrade loophole last year. But they are the only carrier that does not
throttle their LTE network at all, and also allow you to officially pay for
unlimited tethering, something no other carrier has ever offered. On top of
that the open access rules attached to the C block of the 700mhz spectrum they
use lets me pop my sim card into a dedicated lte router, tablet, hotspot, etc.
Even devices that Verizon stores refuse to activate for you like a T-Mobile
bought iPhone, or any device that is not sold as "for verizon". It's unlocked
and works on the network you can pop your sim card into it and it will just
work.

------
baldfat
GENERAL PUBLIC can be swayed into not knowing that Internet Data is not a
commodity. People treat Data like it needs to be grown and a limited resource
that the ISP must harvest and think it is unfair that you use more for data
usage.

I try to explain that Data is more like a pipe and at certain times they can't
get all the data through at the same time. So if this was about throttling for
their network they would just do it during "Peak" times and not 24 hours a
day. I still feel this is a move to charge per amount of data and not speed
access.

------
japhyr
_The fine, which AT &T says it will fight, is the largest ever levied by the
agency._

Does anyone know how likely this fine is to stick? It sounds like a
significant fine to me, but I wonder if these kind of fines are often appealed
down.

~~~
leesalminen
It may seem significant to us mortals, however the fine is less than 1% of
their revenue in 2014.

~~~
ProAm
No one wants to lose 100M, no one.

~~~
KJasper
If you can make 200M and have a risk of paying 100M in the worst case you
still make 100M more than you would without doing it. So it's basically
calculated risk for these companies.

~~~
redblacktree
Sure, but you would still prefer to never pay the 100M.

~~~
unprepare
Not more than you would prefer to make the 200MM and risk losing 100MM of it.

again calculated risk, if theres even a chance that they walk away with all
200mm, and no chance that they end up with 0 or less, then it's worth
pursuing.

~~~
redblacktree
I'm trying to say that they would have preferred to not get caught.

------
madaxe_again
It'll be a cold day in hell before this sticks. They'll use every slippery
tactic in the book to justify it and to fight it, they'll bribe^Wlobby the
appropriate parties to legally define "unlimited" as "limited", and even if
they are stuck with it, they'll just not pay.

I mean, what, are they going to arrest executives? Give me a break. There's no
recourse either way.

~~~
pdabbadabba
> They'll use every slippery tactic in the book to justify it and to fight it,
> they'll bribe^Wlobby the appropriate parties to legally define "unlimited"
> as "limited"

You don't think they tried this _before_ they were fined?

~~~
madaxe_again
Of course. The fine is just a step in the process towards them being
exonerated, a mere formality.

------
Zekio
Throttling speeds after a certain amount of data is not equal to unlimited...
serves them right for using the "Unlimited" wrongly :)

~~~
hueving
Well no amount is unlimited. Throttled or not, you will have a max throughput
that will limit how much data you can download in a month. :)

~~~
Zekio
That is true, but in a sense an Unlimited plan should allow you to
download&upload 24/7 at what ever the max speed is for the full duration of
the plan, without throttling.

Edited: gramma.

------
fnordfnordfnord
If this were a just world, in order to appeal the fine AT&T would have to
first pay the fine, Net 30, and deal with the federal courts via an outsourced
call-center in order to receive a credit on their account.

~~~
jschwartzi
And the credit might or might not apply during the next three billing cycles.
Is there anything else I can help you with today? No? Have a nice day!

------
rasz_pl
There are countries where you cant simply LIE in a commercial/promotional
material. I remember the case of Apple being fined and their ad campaign
pulled when they tried to claim selling “the world's fastest, most powerful
personal computer” (PowerPC times).

On the other hand in my country its ok for actors to lie about being doctors
in commercials :/ ("Im a doctor and X is best for you")

------
CRASCH
I think this falls under a reasonable interpretation of the unlimited.

a reasonable person would understand that there are bandwidth limits both
technological and environmental. A reasonable person would expect that the
level of service they signed up for would continue or get better over time.

I see two issues.

One is that after a certain amount of data is used they limit bandwidth. If
you limit something it is hard to call it unlimited.

The other issue is that early on throttling was not in place. They
specifically added throttling to entice users to switch to more lucrative data
plans.

~~~
gubby
I disagree. That the word 'unlimited' exists in the language does not mean
there must be a place and justification for it found in marketing material.

The only reasonable interpretation of a word is its meaning; since there are
no shortage of words to describe non-unlimited data plans, the mobile networks
should use those instead.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
And yet PAM non-stick spray is marketed as 'fat free' when its 100% fat. And
so on. Marketing has its own Brave New World rules.

------
jdlyga
AT&T is still doing this as of yesterday. I just got a text that I've used 75%
of my "unlimited" plan

~~~
brotoss
Yep, got this last week. Full text: ATT Free Msg: Your data has reached 75% of
the 5GB network management threshold. If you exceed 5GB this month, you may
experience reduced data speeds at times and in areas that are experiencing
network congestion. Wi-Fi helps you avoid reduced speeds. For more info
visit...

------
ytdht
I think AT&T should be fined (or be the target of class action lawsuit) for
constantly lying to customers/future customers... the most common example
being lying about u-verse being fiber-optic going to their customer's homes
(while it only goes to a central box in the neighborhood).

~~~
Alupis
> the most common example being lying about u-verse being fiber-optic going to
> their customer's homes (while it only goes to a central box in the
> neighborhood).

And that doesn't even matter since no U-Verse internet speed even comes close
to what a true fiber connection could carry (1Gbps+). In my area, the fastest
U-Verse internet offered is 18Mbps down, so fiber or not, it's irrelevant.

~~~
ytdht
I think that it is relevant even if the maximum offered speed by AT&T doesn't
reach the full bandwidth that fiber optic could provide (one example is ping
might be a lot lower on fiber optic, or customers think that they have the
latest technology, or that costs should be lower with fiber optic, etc..., but
the main one is lies, why lie if it doesn't matter)

------
negrit
The issue with this kind of fine is that the profit is greater than the fine
so they will continue to do shady things like this.

Also people in charge for approving this should be held accountable.

~~~
adventured
The premise is for the FCC's fine to _also_ act as a warning shot.

If AT&T doesn't change behavior, the next fine will be more. The FCC has
claimed the high ground against AT&T and Verizon, as witnessed by the net
neutrality victory.

------
beambot
[Sorta OT...] Ugh, now we just need goad Comcast into improving their peering.

It's pretty sad when the TV viewing experience is better via torrents than
Netflix. Comcast is doing some serious throttling.... For me, the Netflix
stream is all pixelated, yet we can pull the entire hour-long HD content via
torrent in ~5 minutes. Something is amiss.

~~~
virtuallynathan
Comcast doesn't do any throttling, and have tons of interconnection, including
direct connectivity with Netflix. [http://corporate.comcast.com/news-
information/news-feed/comc...](http://corporate.comcast.com/news-
information/news-feed/comcast-and-netflix)

~~~
beambot
[http://qz.com/256586/the-inside-story-of-how-netflix-came-
to...](http://qz.com/256586/the-inside-story-of-how-netflix-came-to-pay-
comcast-for-internet-traffic/)

------
sschueller
Swisscom in Switzerland sells unlimited data plans that are capped at
different speeds depending on how much you pay per month. Just like a DSL or
cable plan.

I find this a lot more fair than selling unlimited that isn't. Or killing
grandfathered accounts by capping them.

------
bede
T-Mobile UK (now largely assimilated by the EE mothership) comprehensively
denied the existence of an 18-hours-a-day 4mbps throttle placed on its
unlimited plans [1] for several years before getting in trouble with the
regulators. As far as I'm aware they weren't even punished, which is a shame
given how blatantly deceptive their practices were.

This strikes me as a reasonable fine. Well done FCC.

[1] [http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-
communications/mobil...](http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-
communications/mobile-phones/t-mobile-s-unlimited-full-monty-plan-is-actually-
limited-for-16-hours-a-day-says-asa-1145215)

------
rail2rail
> But consumers are unlikely to receive any money from the fine, which will go
> instead to the U.S. Treasury, said the agency official.

Well why the hell not?? If we were the wronged party, should we not benefit
from the settlement directly?

~~~
csours
Because its a fine, not a lawsuit. Even for a lawsuit, that would be like 50
cents per person, and most people would never claim it, especially former
customers.

------
revelation
We need to stop calling this practice "slowing down" or "throttling". If you
are slowed down, you'll be limited to 56kbit or less, by artifically induced
packet loss. At this point, most websites and other internet services will
just completely stop working as the massive packet loss suffocates any
payload.

It's like advertising unlimited miles on a rental car, then slowing it down to
5mph after 200 miles. Sure, the car still moves, but you can't practically use
it for anything.

------
lewisl9029
Any idea what the legal landscape for these kinds of issues is like in Canada?

Wind Mobile also advertises unlimited plans yet throttles starting at a mere
3GB...

[https://www.windmobile.ca/plans-and-
devices/plans](https://www.windmobile.ca/plans-and-devices/plans)

Granted, their true rates are still better than their big telecom
counterparts, but I still find this distasteful as a marketing tactic.

------
newobj
Umm, did they STOP throttling in addition to this settlement? It feels like
they did. I was getting throttled like crazy in March and April (I have no
internet at my house other than AT&T LTE for stupid reasons, so I have to
tether all the time), but in May and June, I seem to mostly never get
throttled anymore... or if I do it's much more modest. Anyone else notice a
change?

~~~
twoodfin
Apparently they stopped throttling when the area you're connecting from is not
experiencing congestion:

[http://www.macrumors.com/2015/05/07/att-scales-back-
unlimite...](http://www.macrumors.com/2015/05/07/att-scales-back-unlimited-
data-throttling/)

------
codazoda
T-Mobile throttles my "unlimited" family plan. The main number gets 3G and
each additional gets 1G and then is throttled. Are they also on the radar or
is it less of a problem for them because they give you the throttle data up-
front (while still using the unlimited word). In reality, however, when you
hit your limit it becomes almost unusable.

~~~
darkstar999
They tell you up front, so I don't think it's an issue. Technically it IS
unlimited.

~~~
pki
The problem is that it's quite literally not fit for use. It's some completely
fucked software rate limiting or something that produces insane packet loss,
pages don't load at all, IRC barely works, ssh breaks up and dies.

I don't mind being shaped to 5KB/s, but at least give me something resembling
a consistent 5KB/s, not 12KB/s for two seconds and then 300 bytes/s (actual
measurement) for the next half hour at 50% loss. It is quite literally
_unusable_ , even if unlimited. And I like Tmobile, but they don't even let me
buy additional data.

~~~
saryant
Are you talking about data above the 21GB limit on their "unlimited" plan or
the 2G data you get after going above your data limits on the lower plans?

I only pay for the 1GB plan but I haven't found it unusable when I go above
that and I can buy a one-time increase if I like.

~~~
pki
I'm on "Unlimited web" plan, but not 21GB.

------
ksec
On a side note, I wonder if one day, 5G, or 6G even, will allow us to have
Complete Wireless Broadband. No more Last Mile Wired connection. No longer
need G.Fast or VDSL2. Just Wireless connection that gives you 100Mbps ( Real
world ) with unlimited data.

------
deegles
My unlimited plan gets throttled after 5GB usage. From what I understand, a
30GB family data plan won't get throttled until the 30GB are used up. If this
is still true, how is it that throttling at 5GB is for "network management"?

~~~
mfoy_
Because at that point the distinction is an arbitrary hand-wave, and they can
just drop the point at which they start throttling lower and lower to save
money.

------
allsystemsgo
I received a text just the other week from ATT letting me know I reached 75%
of the 5GB network management threshold, and that I may experience reduced
data speeds. Anything I can do about this now?

------
d0ugie
By the way, go here if you'd like to request a Project Fi invite:
[https://fi.google.com/signup](https://fi.google.com/signup)

------
twoodfin
I'll be shocked if after this AT&T continues to grandfather in their
"Unlimited" plans.

Which is too bad, because mine is a really great deal even treated as a
5GB/device plan.

------
mamcx
This is so sad.

The fine is pay to somebody else than the victim.

Is like when Intel get fine for screw AMD, and the money go to some EU
institution: Why not pay it to the victim?

That is what this is stupid, and a no-justice.

~~~
tw04
You might want to pick a different example. Intel paid AMD over a billion
dollars as part of their settlement.

The money they paid to the EU as a fine was on TOP of the money they paid AMD,
not in lieu of.

~~~
mamcx
Ah, I don't know that detail.. good to know

------
ianstallings
Can we classify this as a revenue generating legal briefing on the net
neutrality issue? Or is that wishful thinking?

------
calbear81
What's the likelihood this will lead to some type of compensation for
unlimited data users that were throttled?

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random778
I'd like the fine to be in the form of refunding affected customers for the
period they were defrauded.

------
dsp1234
I'd like to see something like on the packages of food:

"No artificial limiters added"

------
treha
What to the BURNED Customers Get? ZERO?

------
johnpococito
nobody said unlimited mean fast internet all the time... and they inform in
terms, internet speed will decrease! People must start using brain and start
thinking or you will end like europe (government will forbid you everything
and tell you everything what u can or not... how much u can earn and what kind
of light bulb you are allowed to buy in shop... ehh).

------
flippyhead
So awesome.

------
williesleg
So that means our rates are going up again.

So sick and tired of these hidden middle-class taxes.

