
What is it like to have never felt an emotion? - andyjohnson0
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150818-what-is-it-like-to-have-never-felt-an-emotion
======
marktangotango
I would almost classify myself this way, because in my teenage years I
developed a coping mechanism for childhood trauma that entailed detaching
myself from my emotional state and becoming an observer of myself. I think
it's otherwise known as building walls to protect yourself. It took me many
years to realize what i had done, and try to get back in touch with my
feelings.

So far as lacking emotional response to major life events; there is so much
going on during a wedding, and giving birth to babies, I don't imagine it's
uncommon to not really feel joy in those moments; you're just to busy.
Watching babies grow and transform into toddlers and big kids in front of your
eyes, now that is joy of a lifetime, imo.

------
ned

      For instance, one day at school he was working with the student theatre.
      All week he had been struggling to produce the right sound effects, 
      but it just wasn’t coming together. Eventually, his boss lost his cool
      and started ripping into him. “My response was that something weird was
      happening with my body,” he says. “I could feel a tension, like my heart
      was racing, but my mind was distracted…
    

Isn't this an extreme case of repressing emotions, in the most classic sense?
The disconnect between bodily reaction and lack of mindfullness seems to
indicate it.

~~~
VLM
Maybe it was a bad example for the author to use because it sounds like whats
been described to me as symptoms of a panic attack. Or it might be that
pathological panic attacks are an example of the emotional problem in the
story.

From talking to people who've had medical panic attack problems, it seems
common for them to confuse how to name the bodily symptoms, so they show up in
the ER confused why they're sweating bullets and feeling very confused and
heart rate of 150 thinking they're having a heart attack or stroke instead of
"just" an out of control emotional response.

Or it could be that their treatment plan for repressed emotions leading to
panic attacks is a lifetime dose of a pill. Maybe that is the best treatment
plan for them; none of my business, I guess, other than that specific example
might have been a bad choice for the article because of confusing factors.

~~~
mercer
From what i understand panic attacks are easily treated exactly because, as
you say, the primary problem is that the person having the attack erroneously
confuses the physical symptoms with something more serious. Through cognitive
behavioral therapy they can learn to fix this, and as a result the panic
attacks disappear (or at least the initial panic doesn't spiral into a full-
blown attack). Similar approaches have also been successful in treating
phobias and other issues.

For anyone interested in the topic (and CBT in general) I can highly recomment
[What You Can Change and What You Can't - The Complete Guide to Successful
Self-Improvement]([http://www.amazon.com/What-You-Change-Cant-Self-
Improvement/...](http://www.amazon.com/What-You-Change-Cant-Self-
Improvement/dp/1400078407)) by Martin Seligman.

As someone who has recently developed a bit of an obsession with
mindfulness/zen/meditation, this book is a good example of the parallels
between that and the field of psychology.

------
_nedR
I don't get it. Is the article exaggerating things? How can you function
without feeling emotions? What is your motivation for getting married? Getting
a job? Playing a game or watching a movie? Succeeding at any task? What is
your reward mechanism?

For example "All week he had been struggling to produce the right sound
effects,"

How would you even know you hit the right sound effect? What is your judgement
for good or bad on something that is subjective?

~~~
rightnow321
It is really weird to be honest, I wouldn't say the other replies on this
comment at the moment cover it so thought I would try and add something.

On one had you're right those are genuine issues, there's little motivation to
do anything really. I guess it is a spectrum but I still feel that if someone
asks me to do something that I'm being a nice person if I do it, I guess
others might be devoid of that. So if invited to do something I normally go,
but I only originate plans if I feel I'm doing it for others e.g. if someone
is visiting I'll setup a dinner for us all. At the end of a week when I've
been busy I cab be annoyed at how much of my life is spent doing things for
others, but I do know that's because I don't do anything at all for myself.

I'm married and I wouldn't say I am because it's something expected of me. I
think I want to be healthy mentally later in life and I know I can put the
work in to give my wife a happy life, also that I didn't hide the way I am
from her. If I didn't do these things it would be equivalent to just kind of
giving up and I guess I haven't done that so I do these kind of things for
future me who I want to be in a good place. I do love, I don't think it's
quite the feeling love is to others but love/loss are recognisable.

I work to succeed and for financial security basically, I can't fathom a job I
"enjoy" but in my mind besides paying bills it's like a game and I win if I'm
successful. A good way to think about it is when a big project finishes it's a
bit weird for me because I don't really get happiness or pleasure or a sense
of achievement from it, it's kind of like a vaccum. The day a system goes live
is no different from day 1 on the project. Within the vaccum I just get hyper-
critical of my performance I think my brain is thinking it's important to
improve for next time and just immediately focusses on what it needs to do to
make that happen.

I do watch films/games, although not that much, but I like being distracted
and having something to do. I watch twitch and sport where I do find it easy
to support teams. I would never be upset after a result in sport or anything,
I don't get nervous before or excited after a win but I like the pattern,
which players are good/bad, analysing tactics, following the story etc.

Reward mechanism - I don't think there's anything in my life like that I could
google it but not sure what it means. I don't do anything to reward myself at
all.

~~~
skybrian
Are there decisions you have trouble making?

~~~
rightnow321
Yeah, making decisions is like a big pros and cons list. If there's no real
way to split the two it's hard if it's something I care on some level about.

So for example picking a colour for a carpet or pick a new pair of shoes is a
nightmare and I put that kind of thing off because ultimately I have no way in
my brain to pick beyond that I want something plain so it's quite
uncomfortable.

Or picking a holiday destination is awkward, I live in Europe but I don't care
whether I next go to Berlin, Paris or Rome. Even if I've been there before
versus not I just don't care at all beyond if I consider it stressful being
out of comfort zone or something in which case some places can be ruled out.

I suppose that's the trivial things, the bigger life decisions where I can't
make a decision I guess ultimately my wife makes for us.

I don't think that's specific to this condition, I've read elsewhere that lots
of people have a similar scientific approach to decision making.

------
coldtea
> _What is it like to have never felt an emotion?_

Since for it to be something you'd have to feel an emotion regarding your
condition, it's nothing (neutral).

------
kirsebaer
I wonder how people with alexithymia respond to MDMA (ecstasy)? I've heard
people say that the first time they really experienced emotions was on MDMA.

~~~
WhitneyLand
The hypothesis makes perfect sense and is very intriguing, however it doesn't
seem to pan out.

There are narcissists and sociopaths who have tried it as a therapy.
Unfortunately the only result seems to be increased love for themselves, or
feelings of God like superiority over others.

------
stewbrew
How should you know? Actually an interesting problem:

A1. You say you don't experience emotions.

A2. What you call emotions is what you see others do when they say they are
acting emotionally. You don't think you are this way.

A3. Your doctor says you're right.

Or:

B1. You say you experience emotions.

B2. Others say you are wrong.

~~~
rightnow321
You're completely right at it's heart is an innate doubt over whether this is
actually a problem or just a manifestation of some weird thought process.

The only way to really get outside this kind of introverted bubble is to ask
people or confide in them. This leads to conversations like whether an emotion
like happiness is an actual thing or not that they can identify and actually
feel. In the sense that they are actually sitting there and willing to state
"I feel happy", it's different from yesterday. Most people are hence why I
diagnose myself in line with this article.

Or, another way is people generally have an answer to the "Tell me about a
time you were very happy"... a lot of people can reel something off really
easily here. Sometimes it's like a wedding and you think "you could be saying
that because it's accepted as a good answer" but other people say a certain
day at the beach where something really specific happens and that lends
credence to the idea they feel this emotion and I don't.

~~~
xixi77
I personally believe it is a problem, having (mostly) been in that state and
(sometimes) out of it, it is indeed quite a difference. When it happened for
the first time (at age 33), it was like "oh my, so _this_ is what all those
people were talking about all along, isn't that something".

I do wish I could change states at will, but historically it has always been a
result of some sort of external influence.

------
JohnBooty
Surely it's "repressed emotions" in some cases, but not always. There's strong
evidence to support this assertion.

One of the "this would be funny if it weren't so morbid" truths about
psychology is that much of our understanding of the brain springs from cases
in which normally-functioning people have parts of their brains physically
destroyed in accidents.

The most famous example is Phineas Gage, who experienced some specific
personality changes (go figure, right?) after a railroad spike pierced his
head but left him otherwise unharmed. His mishap provided visceral proof that
the brain wasn't just an undifferentiated lump; it showed us that specific
areas of the brain perform specific tasks including emotional and behavioral
issues.

Alexithymia can sometimes be the result of a brain injury. A person with
"normal" emotional responses can, after a brain injury, find themselves with
alexithymia.

I'm not sure of a definitive source to link to; apologies for the Google
search results link:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=traumatic+brain+injury+and+a...](https://www.google.com/search?q=traumatic+brain+injury+and+alexithymia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

------
anticitizen
There are many questions I would like to see asked of Caleb, the subject of
much of the article.

For starters, I would like to know about his sense of humor, and about his
taste in music and art, and how he would describe his preferences.

~~~
rightnow321
I'm not Caleb but I self diagnose myself as having the same condition so I can
at least speak for myself.

I don't think my sense of humour is much different from anyone else's, I laugh
at something I think is funny. My general mood is very flat a lot of the time
but other than that I think funny is just funny. I wouldn't necessarily bother
going to see a comedian I knew I would laugh at though, if that makes sense.
i.e. I don't seek out situations I think will make me laugh and I wouldn't say
I enjoyed a night I laughed for 2 hours more than one I watched a documentary
or something. I do think I laugh at comedians a lot less than when I was
younger, which is one way I think I'm becoming less rather than more emotional
if that makes sense.

Music/Art again I don't think are really affected. I listen to some music and
subscribe to spotify but I don't use it a huge amount. Clearly I couldn't tell
you a song I found uplifting, that's two concepts that I just don't see as
related. When people say that my gut reaction is that they're just saying it
because they like how it makes them look, I'm not sure if I believe it's an
actual feeling as such. I'm not into art but I like things that are nice to
look at. I have no appreciation of abstract art at all but I don't think
that's uncommon

------
hyperchase
I'd imagine that never having felt an emotion is probably akin to being blind.
A blind friend of mine once described it to me: "I don't 'see' blackness, like
you might think. Describe to me what it's like to see something out of your
elbow, it's exactly like that."

------
pessimizer
This is all self-reported, and people who don't have emotions don't reach out
to support groups or express their feelings about not having feelings on
message boards.

Also, there has never been a thing called an emotion detected in or on the
body of a human. I think the leading theory is that 'emotion' is a
rationalization of the current state of one's sympathetic and parasympathetic
nervous system. It's a self-application of theory theory.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory-
theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory-theory)

~~~
norea-armozel
And yet there's physical evidence from MRIs of people that report an absence
or deadening of emotion. How do you account for the physical evidence?

~~~
pessimizer
There is evidence from fMRI for every single thing that a researcher wanted to
see.

[https://blogs.plos.org/neuro/2015/01/28/fmri-under-the-
micro...](https://blogs.plos.org/neuro/2015/01/28/fmri-under-the-microscope-
an-interview-with-mri-physicist-practical-fmri/)

[http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2008/06/27/must-read-
pa...](http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2008/06/27/must-read-paper-on-
fmri-and-th/)

------
AnimalMuppet
Funny. I mentally translated the headline to "What _does it feel like_ to have
never felt an emotion?" I think this means that I have no clue what it's
like...

------
wilwade
Along the same lines are those who have low affect or have emotions, but they
are very weak. I would classify myself in that category, so I can perhaps
understand a bit of what alexithymia would be like. For example, I took a
roller coster once, and it was interesting by emotionally void.

So imagine the "feeling" of just sitting in a chair in an empty room. Now
imagine "feeling" that way all through a roller coaster. No excitement, fear,
enjoyment, etc...

------
Idontagree
I really wish I could meet these people or someone who claims to be like this,
none of it is easy to describe, but I think it'd be interesting to experience.

------
pcunite
Reading the title to this HN post made me laugh out loud. I guess I can't say
I'm without emotions.

:-)

------
derrida
> The condition is found in around 50% of people with autism

Oh please, journalism .

Wordless about emotions? Maybe. Not knowing the words for emotions? Maybe.
Emotionless? Ha. Spend time with any group of people with autistic spectrum
disorders & tell me 50% are emotionless. Confusing words with the phenomena &
further contributing to the barriers they have to express their inner life,
not on.

To say it matter of factly like this in science journalism with no sense of
the controversy to popular perception or those who have relationships with
neurodiverse people, or motivating <with references> the point of view behind
a scientist, but instead, reporting as fact. This view is surely contravertial
in the scientific community, let alone with the public in contact with
autistic people - and the worse thing is, if you tell an autistic person, they
could believe it.

The only basis I have for saying "this is surely controversial in the
scientific community" is 1. my faith in that community 2. my experience of the
emotional lives of people on the autistic spectrum. 1 says they'd find out
about 2 because it's a real thing.

They have empathy & emotions - like colonization - the one's trying to 'help'
can sometimes be the cause of the most harm.

~~~
jazzyb
The article doesn't characterize the disorder as being without emotions. It
quotes researchers as saying that while sufferers display the physical signs
of emotions, there is some sort of breakdown either in the expression (as you
mentioned) or self-awareness of emotions.

~~~
greatthanks
The title refers to the inability of feeling emotions - which is the same as
"being without emotions".

~~~
nostrademons
Alexithymia literally means "no words for emotions", and the article makes it
clear that people with the condition do feel emotions, they just lack
conscious awareness and the ability to verbalize their emotions. The title
refers to the experience _from the point of view of the subject_ \- being
outside of their conscious awareness, it is as if emotions do not exist for
them, even though they still trigger the appropriate physical responses.

------
peterwwillis
tl;dr you know you're eating 100 different flavors of ice cream but they still
all taste like vanilla

------
davelnewton
You mean... what does it feel like?

Nothing.

------
tempodox
OMG, that must be pure bliss. Where can I apply?

------
estefan
Sad? Oh wait...

------
joe563323
Spock ?

~~~
hliyan
Apparently, the analogy is not inaccurate:

“It may be hard to believe, but it is possible for someone to be cut off
completely from the emotions and imagination that are such a big part of what
makes us humans,” he says. “And that a person can be cut off from emotions
without being heartless, or a psychopath.”

~~~
cypher_glyph
Well, it is illogical to be a psychopath, after all...

~~~
coldtea
What's illogical about it? In fact being a psychopath is the most logical
thing (promoting your interests with cold logic with care or mercy for
others).

All other behaviors need either a faith in some God or man-given morality,
ethics, or emotions like love, mercy etc (which, as emotions, are not
logical).

Of course one can logically come to the conclusion that behaving moraly
instead of like a psychopath is better for humanity. But even in that case,
giving a damn for what's better for humanity (instead of what maximizes your
benefits in your lifespan) is illogical.

~~~
david_ar
Not really, Nash equilibria aren't necessarily the best outcome for any
individual (cf the prisoner's dilemma). Cooperation is usually better than
every-man-for-himself for everyone involved, hence why social animals evolve
altruistic traits. Of course, selfishness works at the expense of an
altruistic majority, but that's why people don't like to associate with
psychopaths

~~~
coldtea
That's in game theory. Not many people are ever offered a bona fide
"prisoner's dilemma".

In most actual real life situations you can get far ahead by behaving as a
sociopath.

> _Of course, selfishness works at the expense of an altruistic majority, but
> that 's why people don't like to associate with psychopaths_

The thing is that as a sociopath you don't even have to show that you are that
to people. You can still pretend to be altruistic (to your advantage) and
still push your personal agenda whenever possible covertly.

~~~
PepeGomez
>The thing is that as a sociopath you don't even have to show that you are
that to people. You can still pretend to be altruistic (to your advantage) and
still push your personal agenda whenever possible covertly.

People aren't stupid.

------
michaelfeathers
Isn't this textbook sociopathy?

~~~
buro9
No.

> sociopath: a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is
> antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or
> social conscience.

Nothing in not feeling emotions means that one would lack a moral
responsibility or social conscience, or is antisocial and often criminal.

~~~
michaelfeathers
Here's a functioning sociopath with a conscience but it's not feeling based.
It seems very similar:

[https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-
sociopath)

------
teekert
"There is one, slim advantage: he finds it easier to cope with medical
procedures, since he doesn’t attach the fear, sadness or anxiety to it. “I can
put up with an awful lot of pain or unpleasant experiences because I know very
shortly I won’t have an emotional memory associated with it,” he says. “But it
means that positive memories get washed away too.”"

