
Alibaba F-1 - nikunjk
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1577552/000119312514184994/d709111df1.htm
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TrainedMonkey
"We operate a micro-finance business that provides micro loans to small- and
medium-sized enterprises who are sellers on our wholesale and retail
marketplaces, or our SME loan business. We extend micro loans through our
lending vehicles licensed by the relevant local governments in China."

Turns out reading these is actually useful, I had no idea they issued
microloans.

~~~
alaskamiller
What they mean is AliPay -
[http://global.alipay.com/ospay/home.htm](http://global.alipay.com/ospay/home.htm)

Jack Ma spoke on it last year at Stanford -
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRp4jiJed3c](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRp4jiJed3c)

My prediction: Alibaba is on a path to take over the world. In the next 5
years the startup and silicon valley landscape will change dramatically with
the introduction of Alibaba as a major player stateside.

Yahoo will be bought, all these spree acquisitions and product dev based on
borrowed time and money (ironically from Alibaba) is to walk away with as much
money from Alibaba when that inevitable moment happens. Maybe that's why
Marissa Meyer has such confidence.

If you work on anything tangential and remotely related to ecommerce,
enterprise, or logistics, at scale--the type of scale that can actually
impress a man that has the indirect democratic approval of a a nation composed
of a billion people--you now have an additional avenue for exit aside from
Amazon.

Alibaba will become an American household name overnight, that took 15 years
to happen.

~~~
crashandburn4
>My prediction: Alibaba is on a path to take over the world.

I couldn't ask about some sources/information on this? I've only been
tangentially aware of alibaba, reading the odd news story here and there, I'd
be interested to hear what has inspired such strong words on the subject as
that makes me think maybe there's something I'm missing about them.

~~~
alaskamiller
Start with that YouTube video at 1.5x

Then look at this [http://qz.com/206283/all-the-western-companies-youd-have-
to-...](http://qz.com/206283/all-the-western-companies-youd-have-to-combine-
to-get-something-like-alibaba/)

~~~
nemothekid
The Quartz article is eye opening, but then I also realized Google also
operates in a very similar fashion, and alot of those entities have Google
counterparts.

What will be interesting from the IPO would be to know if there is a single
cash cow (like Google's Adwords) or if theres are more healthy split

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lifeisstillgood
It failed to list in Hong Kong after HK said the partners could not retain
control of board nominations after the sale

"""The negotiations foundered after regulators decided they would not allow
Alibaba's partners to retain control over board nominations, maintaining that
all shareholders should be treated equally, sources said.""" [+]

So does that mean that the SEC is going to allow them control? Does that mean
HKSE is better governed than NYSE?

[+]
[http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL4N0HL10H20130925?irpc...](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL4N0HL10H20130925?irpc=932)

~~~
misterbwong
I believe this has to do with the inability to issue non-preferred (non-
voting) stock on the HKSE, something that is allowed on NYSE.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
But ... why? Why should one company allow voting with all shares and another
not? Seems to me that's turning comparable markets into apples v oranges. The
price of two shares then are not just based on strengths of companies but
whether shareholders can influence the company too. I would rather have two
markets in that case.

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jacquesm
At least compared to the valuations of instagram, pinterest and so on this one
actually makes sense.

~~~
tokenadult
Jacques, Shakespeare would call that "damning with faint praise." It does seem
to me that Alibaba has an actual underlying business with real business value,
but I wonder about the transparency, even with listing in the United States,
of a company that does most of its business in China. We shall see what value
the market sets on the company at first, and how that works out over time.

~~~
tanzam75
Actually, the Alibaba that is being listed does not have an underlying
business. The stock represents ownership of a Cayman Islands variable interest
entity that has a contractual claim on the actual Alibaba's profits.

This is not a new trick. It's a longstanding loophole in the Chinese law
barring foreign ownership of certain companies. But it's also not exactly
risk-free: [http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/i-p-o-revives-
debate-...](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/i-p-o-revives-debate-over-
a-chinese-structure)

~~~
rahimnathwani
Dan Harris wrote some interesting articles about the VIE structures (aka Sina
structure). If you're interested, a good place to start is here:
[http://www.chinalawblog.com/2013/06/buying-into-a-china-
vie-...](http://www.chinalawblog.com/2013/06/buying-into-a-china-vie-what-me-
worry.html)

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coreymgilmore
Of note, the NASDAQ has lost year to date what Alibaba will be valued at.
Interesting anomaly in the market.

Also a tough time for a tech company to go public since the general
marketplace seems pretty overpriced as it is these days. The fact that Alibaba
is an established business with history should help it perform well on IPO
day.

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rdl
Only raising $1B? Or is that a placeholder?

I would have assumed more like $20-30B.

~~~
presty
From [http://recode.net/2014/05/06/chinese-internet-giant-
alibaba-...](http://recode.net/2014/05/06/chinese-internet-giant-alibaba-
finally-files-for-ipo/)

"In its initial document, Alibaba said it was raising $1 billion, but that is
only a placeholder and will surely change. Demand from investors is likely to
be high and analysts have estimated that Alibaba would raise $15 billion or
more at a valuation of close to $200 billion."

~~~
boomzilla
200B valuation is actually very reasonable: it's PE would be roughly 35
compared to Amazon's 400. Now the big question which I have not been able to
figure out from their S1 is why they have so much more margin compared to
Amazon, given the two are operating more or less in the same space. Is that
because US is a free (and more efficient) market, where China has more
artificial barriers for other players?

~~~
tormeh
I think Alibaba does more bulk shipments, connecting manufacturers. Alibabas'
customers are businesses, Amazon is a consumer company. They are not
comparable at all. Searching for pens on Alibaba gives you offers with minimum
shipment of 500 pens.

~~~
khc
That's only talking about the Alibaba site itself. They own several gigantic
websites that in the consumer business (taobao, t-mall, etc).

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piocan
Btw. Alibaba Group is so much more, not only one site, it is Amazon of China!
[http://www.examinechina.com/blog/alibaba-
group/](http://www.examinechina.com/blog/alibaba-group/) \- infographic w/
their other ventures (Alipay, clon of paypal etc.)

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muad_dib
here is source that can be annotated
[http://www.twomargins.com/documents/15](http://www.twomargins.com/documents/15)
as referenced here
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7707505](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7707505)

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Fasebook
News on my HN?

