

Ask HN: Best country for hackers to work/live in? - donaq

I have never worked or lived anywhere other than Singapore for any length of time, and I desire a change in scenery. Ideally, this place should have the following characteristics:<p>1) Fast broadband and interesting programming jobs that pay well. The economy values hackers, is what I'm saying here.<p>2) Population mostly speaks English.<p>3) Easy for a Singaporean to get a residence/work visa.<p>4) Temperate climate. One of the reasons I wish to relocate for a coupla years is because it's <i>hot</i> here.<p>5) Since I aspire to eventually start a business, this place should also be easy to start one in.<p>Any suggestions and reasons for them?
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frond
Johannesburg or Cape Town, South Africa.

English speaking, high demand for skilled programmers, brilliant climate
(Johannesburg, especially). Jobs are mostly in the financial sector.

Good broadband is expensive, but prices are expected to drop quickly. World
class healthcare, if you can afford it (as a programmer, you WILL be able to
afford it). Reasonable cost of living.

There is a lot of crime, but if you live in an area like Sandton, it shouldn't
bother you much if you take basic precautions.

The country does run the political risk of being hijacked by populists, but as
a foreigner, with little invested in the country, you will be able to leave
before things get bad.

Starting a business is doable, and, barring political problems discussed
above, there is good upside potential.

~~~
sgt
I prefer Cape Town for many reasons. Johannesburg is fast paced all the time
and never really sleeps. Cape Town is almost like a little sleepy village
sometimes, and there's very little money here compared to in Johannesburg, but
there are enough advantages to make me want to stay here and not move up
there. If you make R25000-R35000/month you are well off.

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daliusd
According to doing bussiness you shouldn't move at all:
<http://www.doingbusiness.org/Rankings>

Maybe New Zealand but I don't know anything about hackers culture there. I
guess Australia might be better choice here (at least I know one Australian
hacker while I live in Eastern Europe).

You can estimate other proposals by looking at "doing bussiness" list. Estonia
(24th in list) most probably is good choice as well but it is really cold
there. Here in Lithuania (26th in list) winters are cold sometimes and Estonia
is north from us.

~~~
CaptainDecisive
New Zealand could be a good option for you.

1) Broadband speeds are good although maybe a little pricey by global
standards (eg $55/month for cable, $60/month for ADSL. FYI 1 NZD ~ 1 SGD). The
main cities (which generally implies Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch)
have good universities and IT jobs. Also IT jobs pay well (that's compared to
other local jobs, NZ salaries in general are lower than other larger western
economies)

2) English is one of the official languages.

3) I dont know your age but there's a new Silver Fern visa for skilled
migrants under 35 which allows you to move to NZ without a job offer
([http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/silverfer...](http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/silverfern/default.htm)).
With IT skills you should qualify for standard Skilled Migrant visas too.

4) New Zealand has a maritime climate (Köppen Cfb ie not too cold and not too
hot) so is much cooler than Singapore. The country runs north - south so
there's pleanty of variation in temperature. The main cities all get just over
2000 sunshine hours which is about the same as Singapore. However the rainfall
of Auckland and Wellington is 40% less than Singapore and Christchurch is 60%
less.

5) Kiwis have long admired those who have a go at starting their own company
and take on the big fish. And as daliusd mentions it's easy to start a
company.

6) Also there's plenty of easy direct flights from Singapore to New Zealand.

~~~
donaq
Thanks for the information. I've been mostly considering New Zealand and
Canada before posting this thread. I am beginning to like the sound of New
Zealand more and more. :)

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sandis
I'm not sure about 3) and 5), but Netherlands is not a bad choice — almost
everyone speaks good English, climate is moderate and wages are quite decent,
if you land a good job. At least in comparison with Estonia, Lithuania or
Latvia that some have suggested in this thread (I am Latvian myself). Problem
with Baltic States would be a lack of serious hacker/startup communities, lack
of English speaking population and, of course, quite cold winters :) Then
again, living in NL is much more expensive too.

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saifa
I think USA is the best place for hackers to live and work! Don't you think
so?

~~~
Booo
Could anyone share some experiences working and liking in South America?

Many thanks.

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gaius
I don't know about (3) but Estonia or the Czech Republic I reckon.

~~~
kapilkaisare
I think Estonian is the most widely spoken language in Estonia, with Russian a
distant second.

~~~
gaius
In Tallinn at least, everyone spoke perfect English.

------
donaq
Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

------
Mz
I doubt anyone can really give you a list of places that fit your criteria.
Maybe some folks can suggest some websites for looking up each criteria?

I use <http://www.bestplaces.net/> for comparing US cities.

I currently live in a hot place. I would like to go someplace more temperate
and my sons would like to go someplace generally cooler than here. The
difference between these two views is that we all agree summers are too hot
but, unlike my sons, I don't really want to freeze my arse off in the winter.
The reality is that most places which are cooler in the summer will also be
colder in the winter. The San Francisco Bay Area has the only Mediterranean
climate in the US, which is not so hot in the summer but is also not too cold
in the winter. Hawaii is also pleasant year-round in terms of temperature,
which is probably why it is hellaciously expensive to live there. (I have
other reasons I don't want to live in Hawaii -- and, yes, did look into it/ask
around -- but even if I wanted to, I couldn't afford it).

Anyway, I personally think you would get better feedback if you asked for
links to websites with info on each one (individually) of your criteria -- and
I would love to add such links to my stash of place-comparison resources.

(I occasionally toy with the idea of doing something like bestplaces.net but
with a different set of criteria. It will probably never happen. <shrug>)

~~~
byoung2
_The San Francisco Bay Area has the only Mediterranean climate in the US_

The coastal parts of Los Angeles and San Diego also have Mediterranean
climates.

~~~
Mz
I had never heard that before. I always heard that only the SF Bay Area has
it. However, this map seems to agree with you:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Medclim.png>

Having been to both of those places, I don't think of them that way. LA is hot
as hell and very dry -- unless you are wealthy enough to be right on the beach
(of course, you did say "coastal"). San Diego seemed to me a bit more
temperate than LA but still quite dry. However, I spent like one day there, so
my first-hand knowledge of that area is very limited.

~~~
byoung2
LA is a very big place, so there is a big variance between the coast (e.g.
Santa Monica, Venice, Marina del Rey, South Bay) and the inland or valley
areas. Usually the weather reports are almost like clockwork in an X/X+10/X+20
pattern: 70's at the beaches, 80's inland, 90's in the valleys.

If you want to stay cool and not too dry, it's not too expensive to live in
the southern areas or even Long Beach.

