
Ask HN: Would you guys work for Bitcoin? - grover_hartmann
As in receive your salary in BTC.
======
MarkCole
I would definitely not. For many reasons, but the volatility alone is enough
to put me off of it. Losing a months income to a flash crash?

Not only that, but I'd have to convert it to fiat anyway to pay for 99% of the
things I spend my salary on. With the fees involved in the exchange and
fluctuations, I'd end up with less money in the end most likely.

Bitcoin is a fun toy, and spending some of my disposable income on it sounds
ok. But my whole salary? not on my life. I sincerely hope there is no one
around that is so blindly invested in the idea of Bitcoin they are converting
their whole salary to Bitcoin.

~~~
grover_hartmann
Bitcoin is not a toy, it's a very useful tool for transferring value across
borders and very good at that, especially when banks and companies such as
Western Union impose unreasonable fees on their users.

Also, Bitcoin is not as volatile as it was once anymore, have you checked the
price in the last few months? It has stayed around 200-300-ish USD.

It's fine if you don't want to use Bitcoin, but please stop spreading FUD.

~~~
MarkCole
I have looked at the price lately. In fact using the Coindesk chart[0], over
the last 3 months it has swung between 200 and 300 USD you are correct. But a
drop from 300 to 200 USD is still volatile as hell. It means that my Salary
could lose one third of it's value in the space of a month. The one year chart
is worse. Of course it could swing the other way too, but I like a little more
safety in my income.

As for it not being a toy, that's a matter of how we each use it. You use it
as a more serious financial instrument evidently. Personally I prefer services
such as TransferWise, for reducing those bank fees, but if that's how you use
Bitcoin then good for you!

[0] [http://www.coindesk.com/price/](http://www.coindesk.com/price/)

~~~
grover_hartmann
3 months? More like since Mt.Gox went out of business in 2013 or so.

~~~
irl_zebra
Literally in the link he posted, if you look at the 3 month pricing chart, the
low point is $209 and the high point is $309. This isn't speculation or
guessing, those are some pretty huge swings in such a short amount of time the
data quantitatively shows.

I wouldn't want my salary to have that kind of volatility.

~~~
grover_hartmann
It's really disappointing everyone focuses on the volatility yet everyone
dismisses the advantages of Bitcoin.

~~~
rnovak
It's disappointing that people want to make a consistent amount of money?
Yeah....that's just stupid </sarcasm>

~~~
grover_hartmann
I'm not saying it's stupid to prefer a stable currency, I'm all for price
stability and making a consistent amount of money.

I'm saying it's disappointing everyone focuses on volatility, yet everyone
dismisses the other advantages of Bitcoin.

~~~
rnovak
They're not saying that. They're saying that those advantages don't directly
apply to them, but volatility does. They aren't dismissing it, just saying
that for _them_ the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages, which is
perfectly acceptable.

~~~
grover_hartmann
If you have money coming in and out, does it really make a difference?

Some people make a lot of assumptions, but I bet none of those people ever
tried Bitcoin.

~~~
rnovak
I'm confused:

> I'm not saying it's stupid to prefer a stable currency, I'm all for price
> stability and making a consistent amount of money.

>I understand, but is the volatility really a problem as some people think it
is?

You seem to be contradicting _your own_ idea. Yes, volatility is a problem.

Why? Because your rent, utilities, and other living expense aren't based on
the same volatility. The "money going out" has the potential to be valued very
differently than the "money coming in".

Do you really want to be _evicted_ because the money you were paid was valued
differently than your rent? Completely possible with BTC.

Fiat currencies work because a large collection of people _around you_ agree
on & depend on their value. If my landlord disagreed about the value of a
dollar, my getting paid in dollars would be _just as useless_ as getting paid
in BTC.

For a fiat currency to be worthless _to everyone around you_ it would requires
a failure of Government, or some other very large catastrophe. At that point,
paying rent is the _least_ of your problems.

Edit: and to reflect _your edit_ , yes, I have tried BTC. I made a not-
unsubstantial amount of money by essentially _gambling_ with it's value. But
had my timing been _even slightly different_ , I would have lost money
instead, and a lot of it. I bought it when it was priced around 50 dollars,
and sold when it got to 680 dollars a while back. But what if had been the
other way around?

Edit2: If you change it out _immediately_ after getting paid, the risk is
lower (you'd basically be operating like many Payment Processors who process
transactions in different currencies). That would also eliminate any possible
benefit, as it's being used purely as a _transfer currency_.

------
MalcolmDiggs
I've heard of some FinTech startups that are offering forward-contracts (think
futures, or put-options) on Bitcoin. If I can get my hands on those kind of
contracts, I'd totally accept my salary in bitcoin. It seems like that would
eliminate any potential downside, as long as those contracts are relatively
cheap to buy.

~~~
rahimnathwani
I can't imagine options would be cheap to buy, as the seller is taking on all
the risk, and they will take into account the volatility of the underlying
asset when determining the price they would be willing to accept.

Forward contracts are different from options. But what's the point of being
paid in BTC every month, if you enter into a set of forward contracts to
convert that BTC into USD? It's equivalent to being paid in USD.

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jordsmi
Sure, but I would transfer most of it out to USD.

I enjoy BTC for sending/receiving payments as it is very easy, but I don't see
it as a safe 'investment'.

~~~
grover_hartmann
Yes, I've just tried bitcoin for the first time for receiving money and I
couldn't believe how easy it was.

What options do you suggest for converting to local currency, USD in your
case?

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Avalaxy
I love Bitcoin, but why would I work for Bitcoin? It provides no single
benefit. In fact, it only provides risks and more hassle (have to convert it
to EUR to be able to use it).

Burned my fingers on freelancing for Bitcoin a couple of times already.

~~~
nyddle
"Burned my fingers on freelancing for Bitcoin" \- can you please elaborate?
was the problem with bitcoin or with the counteragent?

------
ramon
I would. Just need to re-quote every 3-6 months due to floating quotation, but
ok.

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J_Darnley
Yes. It would at least be something I can trade for a pittance of real money.
That being said I would also work for food and housing.

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patmcc
Sure - if I can specify the exchange rate.

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GFK_of_xmaspast
Absolutely not. Real money for real work.

~~~
grover_hartmann
What's so real about fiat currency? There's nothing fake about Bitcoin.

~~~
patmcc
Every store in my country accepts fiat currency. I can pay taxes and fines in
it, or pay for government services. It's legal tender for all my debts. If I
could do all that with bitcoin, it might be real enough.

~~~
grover_hartmann
That does not make your currency any more "real" than Bitcoin.

~~~
vectorpush
I'm guessing that by "real" he means "useful", as in it can be "used" to pay
for things like medical bills, insurance, student loans, taxes, rent,
utilities, groceries etc. Bitcoin is definitely "real" in some sense of the
word, but for most situations it functions similarly to money that is not real
(like monopoly money) in that it won't be accepted in exchange for tangible
goods and services. Even the relatively few establishments that accept bitcoin
as payment don't really regard bitcoin as real enough to accept directly and
instead hire a middle man to convert bitcoin into "real" money on their
behalf.

