
The Good, Bad, and Ugly of Adam Carolla’s Settlement with Podcasting Troll - uptown
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/08/good-bad-and-ugly-adam-carollas-settlement-podcasting-troll
======
netcan
It’s hard to fault anyone for just wanting a problem like this to go away.
It’s harder still to say that anyone has a duty to go to court at tremendous
risk and expense. That said..

If I understand correctly, Adam Carolla has been raising funds and support for
his cause on the grounds that he’s fighting this on behalf of himself and
others. If people wanted to donate to keep the podcast alive (perfectly
reasonable), it would shave been cheaper to settle earlier or pay a licensing
fee.

It feels a little off. OTOH, this is scary stuff. I probably would have done
the same.

~~~
braum
He absolutely had a duty to keep fighting them because the money raised was by
people who wanted just that; to fight until the bitter end. Instead he settled
and thanks to all of donations and other podcasts chipping in to push money
his way; he got off free and clear and with nothing to gain for other
podcasters. This will come back to bite Carolla in the ass big time. I've been
listening to him since Loveline and have been using his amazon link for
months...

~~~
SoftwareMaven
Anybody who expected him to risk $1.5M of his own money needs to re-evaluate
their own expectations. He fought as hard as he could, given the resources he
had available. The community didn't give him the resources to fight an open-
ended battle, so he had to settle with what he could.

It is an unfortunate turn of events, but the battle is still being fought.

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s_baby
So what happens to the raised $500k? People were donating money to protect the
podcast community with Adam's case being the proxy battle. Adam settling
wasn't in their best interest.

~~~
spindritf
On his podcast he said he spent it all and over 100k on top of it on the pre-
trial legal and expert fees.

~~~
sarah2079
That is insane. $600k in legal fees for a case that didn't even go to trial?
Is this normal?

~~~
ealloc
Wasn't there a story just a few days ago about the huge oversupply of lawyers
right now? Why isn't this driving legal costs down?

~~~
VienneseCPA
Because legal talent has a power distribution. Here are words litigants will
hear: "get the best attorney you can afford, this isn't an area where you want
to cut costs. A great attorney can save you money." Get the picture?

The huge oversupply of lawyers is coming from lower-tier law schools.

~~~
ionforce
> The huge oversupply of lawyers is coming from lower-tier law schools.

Is there a relationship/correlation between a lawyer's capability and the
school they come from? I'm sure informally it's something people assume but I
have no practical experience dealing with or knowing about the quality of
lawyers' work.

~~~
josaka
In my experience, there's only a weak correlation. You're much better off
looking at their repeat clients. If they serve sophisticated parties on a
repeat basis, it's about the best indicator you'll get.

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shouldbeworking
I was hoping the EFF would let its readers make up their mind on Adam Carolla,
instead of praising him. This did, after all, accomplish nothing, except
setting a negative precedent for crowdfunded action against patents.

~~~
braum
in regard to crowdfunding actions by individuals instead of established
organizations like EFF. He just screwed that up for everyone else. He said
over and over on his podcasts and on other podcasts he would not settle, even
as late as a week ago before he took vacation. And he kept pushing people to
use the Amazon link to boost the balance so the fight could continue and
finish them. Unless we are missing something from this settlement, I think he
will loose a lot of the good will he developed with other podcasters and those
listeners he would not otherwise have had on his side.

~~~
VMG
It depends where the money goes to now. I doubt that he'll just keep it.

~~~
coldpie
Pretty sure it's already spent just to get this result.

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javajosh
I come away from this article with the singular thought:

    
    
       *The justice system is broken.*
    

The patent troll problem would simply evaporate if the justice system worked
properly - if, for example, the vast majority of the trial was conducted
online with the aid of computers. If all of the mechanical work could be
automated, motions filed in real time, the mechanics of the trial enforced
perfectly and without delay...

(Fixing the justice system would also fix two other problematic areas: the
criminal justice system that relies on prosecutorial over-reach, and improved
consumer protection.)

~~~
prawn
(Upvoted. Seems like something worth further discussion amongst people that
know the field.)

Other than tradition/inertia, are there reasons that trials are held in
particular rooms and the ways they are? Could there be an electronic
equivalent involving securely identified participants?

Could someone tackle this as a startup?

~~~
javajosh
This is something I would love (lurve!) to tackle, because justice is a
vitally important part of any society, and it's a place where "productivity
improvements" could be vast (perhaps 100x faster trials?).

The way I'd move into this would be to get some experience with real trials
and/or private arbitration. It would be ideal to get a JD and actually
practice law, but that's probably not necessary. Arbitration is a good place
to start because it's _relatively_ unregulated and easy to introduce new
models of interaction and judgement, and there's a strong cost minimization
incentive anyway.

I'd work on it but I've got other fish to fry at the moment. Maybe next year!

~~~
prawn
I have time or expertise in that field either but your comment resonated and
I'd be happy to see someone sort it out.

------
xecretcode
He's also in litigation with his ex-business partner Ronnie. He never mentions
it, but fighting on two fronts has to take a toll. While I'm a bit
disappointed he did not fight this until the bitter end, I'm glad he used his
platform to educate the masses about the problem of patent trolls. Good for
him.

~~~
spacehome
Can you elaborate on this or link to a source? And what's Ronnie's last name?

~~~
bennesvig
[http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/adam-carolla-
headed...](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/adam-carolla-headed-trial-
podcast-700812)

------
elangelcentral
Marc Maron just tweeted this:
[https://twitter.com/marcmaron/status/501483878444695552](https://twitter.com/marcmaron/status/501483878444695552)

Sounds like the deal might formally extend to at least some other podcasters.

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VMG
I'm a little surprised he settled --- he was pretty adamant (no pun intended)
about fighting and invalidating the patent on the podcast. Guess it was too
expensive after all.

~~~
MarioSpeedwagon
The main goal was to make sure the industry survived and couldn't be bullied
any longer. Even though it's a settlement, it sounds like he may have gotten
that, which would be a big win for all the other (smaller) podcasters.

*edited for a tiny typo

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femto113
If Personal Audio has already publicly stated they are willing to just walk
away why keep this confidential? Only reason I can think of is they've
actually offered something of value (such as paying Carolla's attorney fees).

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teachingaway
Carolla should donate that $500k to the EFF or similar anti-patent troll
organization. He raised that money to fight the case. If he settled, he should
pass the $$$ forward to the next defendant that wants to pick up the torch.

~~~
seanflyon
He should donate the remainder of that $500k to the EFF, whatever he has not
already spent on its intended purpose.

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shmerl
Someone should really get to trolls on shakedown grounds using some anti
racketeering laws. They are nothing but racketeers, but somehow the legal
system prevents from using those laws against them.

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at-fates-hands
let me play devils advocate for a moment here.

Why do these articles make it seem like the patent trolls don't spend any
money bringing these suits? I'm assuming they have just as many legal fees to
take care of as Carolla does.

The only good side to this is these companies finally understand the ROI on
cases like these are prohibitive to the company bringing them.

Despite Coralla settling, I'm pretty sure Personal Audio lost money in this
mess.

~~~
cpwright
I am pretty sure part of the whole patent trolling business model is the
asymmetric costs. The plantiff's costs are amortized over a number of suits;
the the defendant's costs are not.

~~~
valleyer
Could Carolla publish the findings of his attorneys’ discovery work, so that
future defendants can use it? If so, that would serve as a pretty good
deterrent to future litigation. Right?

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Sophistifunk
Nobody seems to mention that these guys _aren 't patent trolls_. It might be a
stupid patent, you might think patent law needs an overhaul (I'm with you on
both counts) but PA are the people who "invented" the patented material. A
patent troll is an organisation who buys up patents other people are granted
for the purpose of suing people.

~~~
hayksaakian
I don't think the source of patents is what qualifys patent trolls, its what
they do with them.

If this company generates 90% of their income from lawsuits and settlements,
then they're a troll.

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lilsunnybee
Now all Adam Carolla needs to do is return the donated money, since he didn't
do what he said he was going to do with it.

As great as i think it is to donate money to a legal defense fund for a
wealthy celebrity, so that they don't have to use their own money to dodge
dubious licensing fees, maybe that money could have gone further if it had
been donated to a different cause? Instead a few wealthy patent lawyers just
lined their pockets with donated money then fled the scene.

