
Dangers of Sitting - petethomas
https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/dangers-of-sitting
======
Xoros
So sitting is bad.

Last week it was standing :
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15050248](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15050248)

It's starting to be difficult to know how to work !

(And yes, I know it's a matter of the duration you stay in the same position,
but I found it funny that both topics pop out in the same week)

~~~
kaskavalci
Article agrees with risks of standing and clearly says there is no winner
here. Suggestion:

 _The best way for desk jockeys to avoid the sitting trap, research shows, is
to not just stand but walk around — for a couple of minutes once an hour, or
for five or 10 minutes a few times a day._

~~~
dzdt
Maybe that is why coffee drinkers are healthier. Up for more coffee and/or
bathroom every hour or so.

~~~
rkowalick
I think I heard Kent Beck refer to this as the 'pee-modoro' technique

------
enthukarthik
In India, we believe sitting with your leg hanging is not healthy. We usually
sit on the floor which will restrict blood flow to the lower part of the body,
resulting in more blood to the upper body where most of the vital organs are.

Yogis/Rishis sit for months in that cross legged posture without any issues.

Standing/Jogging/Walking is not the opposite of sitting. We need to learn how
to sit properly

~~~
silverbax88
Are you referring to the Yogis who maintain specific positions for years,
deforming their bodies into gnarled, unusable limbs? I wouldn't consider that
healthy at all. I would consider them mentally ill.

~~~
enthukarthik
:) I'm saying sitting comfortably on the floor with cross legged.

Sample :
[https://a248.e.akamai.net/secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/eve...](https://a248.e.akamai.net/secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/6/1/c/0/600_458185024.jpeg)

[http://s.isha.ws/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2013/03/20121119_CH...](http://s.isha.ws/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2013/03/20121119_CHI_0248.jpg)

------
grondilu
I once joked that ever since I've heard about how bad it is to sit down during
hours, I've decided to lay down instead.

But is that really so silly? I used to work in front of a computer. I was
sited all day and I can tell it got very uncomfortable. I had back pain and
stuff. Now I spend most of my time on the bed, and my back is absolutely fine.
The main drawback is my neck, but it's not nearly as inconvenient.

What I mean is : isn't the posture what is wrong with sitting instead of just
inactivity? If so, does that mean we need something like the Altwork
Station[1]?

1\. [http://altwork.com/](http://altwork.com/)

~~~
kranner
Serious question: do you have separate beds for sleeping/working? I've worked
in bed during long periods of recovering from injury but I found it was very
difficult to fall asleep at the end of the day because my body thought it was
still 'in the office'. Now I work at a regular desk, and fall asleep within a
couple of minutes of lying down at the end of the day.

~~~
grondilu
Nope, I use the same bed. I do have difficulty to fall asleep though.

~~~
papa_bear
I spend most of my workday in a zero-gravity chair - I got a leather one off
craigslist, but the cheap patio versions are just as comfortable (you can find
a bunch on amazon). I have a monitor mounted above me and a keyboard in my
lap, and it's never uncomfortable. I think for programming, being
uncomfortable can definitely kill some productivity - at a normal desk, I'm
intermittently thinking about and correcting my posture, or trying to shift
myself to find a new comfortable position, and it interrupts my train of
thought. And to feel like I'm not relaxing my ass into an early death, I'll
get up and do a quick workout once every hour or two.

~~~
grondilu
What do you use to mount the monitor?

~~~
papa_bear
A basic monitor arm attached to the front of the desk, and a 40" monitor
mounted to it. (this one: [https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Single-Monitor-
Display-M...](https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Single-Monitor-Display-
Mounting/dp/B00MIBN16O/))

The downside is you can't really use the desk as a normal desk anymore, but if
I need to write stuff or do non-computer work, I just do it elsewhere.

------
sashavingardt
Ironically, when I worked at Bloomberg, I failed to get a stand up desk for
myself. HR made people jump through so many hoops. A note from this doctor and
an approval from that specialist, on and on. I tried for months. Then I
brought in a swiss ball to sit on and it got taken away. And all of that was
in 2014, not that long ago.

~~~
matwood
> Then I brought in a swiss ball to sit on and it got taken away.

Huh? Why?

Anecdotes like this make me hope I never have to work in a large company
again.

------
delias_
I have an adjustable desk. It's really nice to be able to move around
throughout the day, but for any thoughtful task that requires some amount
focus, I have to sit. I'd like to read further collectively inconclusive
research about that.

~~~
degenerate
I have the exact same issue. I recently moved to an adjustable desk, and
writing emails is fine standing up. It's when I need to have a 2-3 hour coding
session that I _must_ sit down or I can't focus. I am wondering if this is
learned behavior or if sitting down fosters creativity in some way. I'd love
to see some science on it too.

~~~
ioquatix
It took me 6 months to make the switch. My standing desk has two computers, 2
keyboards, and 3 screens, soon to be more. I have both systems set up for
working on different parts of the same project. I work for an hour on one,
walk to the other, do some different work.

Switching to this kind of setup was both physical and mental. It was taxing
assuming the right posture after years of sitting. My back isn't quite right,
but it's a lot better now. Mentally speaking, sometimes I need to sit - I just
can't do a certain thing standing up or I'm mentally exhausted and it starts
manifesting physically. I actually sit on the floor now, it's uncomfortable
and encourages me to stand after a while.

So, the net result is, I've incorporated both mental and physical movement
into my work and life.

------
agumonkey
Jog people. Seriously jog. To work, to the store... Smoothly, avoiding heel
stomping (youll have calves in 3 days), to avoid joint pressure, especially at
first. (my knees are still fucked up, but even then, I barely feel pain after
4 miles jog when I amort the landing properly).

2 miles per day will change your life. I now miss when I can't, I sleep
better, I wake up better. It's a huge stress reliever, resets your mind, burns
fat, opens your lungs, makes you hungry for healthier food (less pastry, more
veggies and meat). bonus point: you get a tan

I couldn't "move" for three years and I notice the difference now that I can.

See you in 2 miles.

~~~
tarsinge
Why not cycling instead? Seems easier on the joints and muscles

~~~
agumonkey
I do indoor biking, for this exact reason. But, it has a much lower impact on
my health. Maybe it's because indoor bike don't move, thus not involving as
many muscle groups as real bike.

The efforts are not distributed the same way. Obviously biking will exercise
your thighs but not much else. While running uses abs, all your legs muscles
groups. I also believe that we're wired to be efficient at running and thus
running tickles your body in better ways. Also there's a nice feeling when
your center of gravity lifts up.

Even if I can go fast on a bike for 1 min, I can barely sprint that long and
surely slowly and I end up exhausted differently. In the end I prefered what
running brought me. It may be very subjective though, even if I enjoy all
sports, I always had a thing for running.

This is all crude opinion, I'd love if anyone with bio/biomech knowledge could
shed light on the subject.

~~~
ufukbay
Cycling is more fun than running for me but exactly because of all the reasons
you mentioned I prefer running over cycling. What I also realized is that
nothing works as good as running (at least for me) for weight loss if you also
change your eating habits (you need to have a calorie deficit in order to lose
fat).

For around 9 weeks I managed to go running for 10km every second day and then
my two weeks vacation happened. I'm trying to get back in again because I'm
extremely frustrated on days I don't go running. I cannot emphasize enough on
the stress relieving part. For me it's around 50 minutes of complete peace of
mind where the only things I focus are breathing and moving my body.

One thing I recommend is to track your runs because it's fun and interesting
to see your improvement over time. Bonus points if you track your heart rate
as well. :)

~~~
agumonkey
I use some android app (fitness run or something like this) to have logs.
Google fit is nice even though it's not precise GPS wise (relies on Google
Maps trip logs).

A smartphone is a bit annoying to carry and use, I might invest in a gps wrist
so I can pause / resume with a button.

Right now I'm at 2x2.5km jogging + 5km of walk. And even though I don't have a
calorie deficit, I already lost significant amount of fat and got back muscle
mass (the bliss of sore muscles right? ;) I'm sure even with a normal diet
it's a lot better to have a more active metabolysm as it is now.

------
stephengillie
Who makes money by us being afraid to sit down? Makers of standing desks?
[http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

~~~
pasquinelli
i agree with others that the standing desk industry doesn't hold much sway,
but at the same time, if some experts say sitting is the most dangerous thing
a person does in a day, then some experts are laughably stupid.

why is this sort of thing so common? these articles taking a common fact of
life and using it to tell their readers they're doing it wrong and killing
themselves and everyone they love? why is that such a common tactic for
getting eyeballs? i guess because it works. but is it good for people to
injest so much of this?

to be clear, i'm not saying that there aren't adverse health effects from
sitting too much, and i'm sure there's good science to back that up, but
there's a lot of good science, most of which never gets a writeup in
bloomberg. so why do we get so much of "dangers of sitting", or "you're
walking all wrong", and on and on?

~~~
rtpg
because in the past 30 years many more jobs have become just sitting around
all day?

Sitting around all day is a relatively new phenomenon. And more than just
sitting, but sitting basically in the same place all day.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that office behavior is one of the
main factors in your health, considering it's 8 hours of the day

------
ransom1538
Remember. Habits require easy accessibility.

You can make an adjustable desk for $0. I can take a recycle bin, trash can,
cardboard box, another chair, books, another desk, --and place this item _on
top_ of any desk -- then _just set my macbook on that_. You don't need a $500
electrical moving standing desk - they are annoying. I currently have my
macbook on top of a planter on top of a desk (the height is perfect). I worked
for 6 months ontop of 3 large legos.

If you _need_ to be hipster or require a mouse you can splurge on a nice one
for $29.

[https://oristand.co/](https://oristand.co/)

~~~
fredsted
Eh, I'd never stand up if I had to do all that. I prefer pressing a button to
raise the desk to my preferred standing height.

Also, I use 3 screens. I'd like to see "oristand" do that!

------
ahh
I know this well, but standing for more than about an hour is torture on my
back. (I suspect my flat feet and tight hips contribute here.) I have no idea
how to fix this.

~~~
toasterlovin
Just deadlift.

3x per week. Start with an empty bar, then add 5lbs to the bar each time you
deadlift. Once it gets so heavy that you can't add anymore, just back off to
1-2x per week and maintain the weight on the bar. It'll take you about 20
minutes each time and the bar and plates will take up about 4 square feet in
your living room or garage when not in use.

Here's how you deadlift:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZrATR1O4E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZrATR1O4E)

You can get a barbell and plates on Craigslist for $250. If you decide that it
ain't for you, you can sell your barbell and plates on Craigslist for $250. So
there is no financial downside. But it has the potential to be the best $250
you have ever spent. On anything.

~~~
ahh
I can pull twice my bodyweight, actually.

~~~
0xbear
Tight psoas could be a problem. When it's tight, it pulls your lower back
vertebrae forward, creating significant shear force. There are stretches
specifically for psoas. Try them, they might help.

------
pasta
So I had all this: insulin problems, hypertension, anxiety and other problems.

I can say this is a real problem you should not underestimate.

But I can't agree with the title. I believe the underlying problem is lack of
muscle movement. So standing all day will give you the same problems.

Muscles are a glucose buffer working tightly together with insulin. When this
buffer doesn't work well your metabolism also doesn't work as expected and you
will get all kinds of problems.

Take care of yourself and move as much as possible throughout the day.

~~~
agumonkey
Also sitting position I suppose. Sitting on the side of my bed is not the same
as sitting on top of it. It puts pressure under my thighs and with bad blood
flow would make my whole legs feel bad.

------
Lxr
I think it's important to keep in mind as with all things, correlation doesn't
automatically mean causation - less healthy people are probably more likely to
be drawn to less active jobs, for instance. Maybe there is a randomised
intervention study that's been done?

------
FuckOffNeemo
I only mean this statement partly in jest.

Buy everyone on your floor a Nerf gun.

~~~
mod
This happened once in my office.

It wasn't as cool as it sounds, and also it just led to a lot of shooting each
other from our desks.

~~~
FuckOffNeemo
That's the intent? A handful of us in my office have guns. The novelty wears
off once you get sick of retrieving the ammunition. This is why my comment was
only partly in jest.

My personal experience with getting away from my desk and walking more was
spurred on from the discomfort of my DIY standing desk that I made
(instructions for the desk are found at [0] and are not my own) and to quit
smoking. I sustituted cigarettes with vaping and it's done more for my health
and encouraging regular movement than I expected or intended.

YMMV of course, I live in a sub-tropical city in Australia and I'm fortunate
enough to have a gorgreous river bank [1] and Botanical gardens at my offices
offices front door [1]. You'd be less inclined to be outside in Middlesbrough
in the UK where I am from or say, Seattle.

[0] - [http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/07/on-off-standing-desk-a-
la...](http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/07/on-off-standing-desk-a-lack-desk-
add-on.html)

[1] -
[https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Brisbane+city&client=fire...](https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Brisbane+city&client=firefox-
b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKt62Au-
zVAhXMybwKHcYzBrYQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=955)

[2] - [https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b-
ab&biw=192...](https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b-
ab&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Brisbane+city+gardens&oq=Brisbane+city+gardens&gs_l=psy-
ab.3...23004.23280.0.23386.8.4.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-
ab..8.0.0.wm6EzRnLf5E)

------
GokhaleMethod
Another perspective, "Sitting: Is It Hurting You?" >
[https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/63827](https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/63827)

------
Johnny555
_Cut sitting time to less than three hours a day, one group of researchers
found, and you could lengthen your life expectancy by two years_

I care more about my quality of life than my life expectancy. Will I get 2
more years of quality life (decent mobility, self reliance, good mental
health), or 2 more years of being confined to a bed in a nursing home as my
mental faculties fade away?

~~~
MichaelApproved
I'm guessing that if you do something to improve your health enough that it
adds years to your life, the rest of your health should be improved as well.

Meaning, maybe standing also improves your back and you ache less in later
years.

It's hard for me to imagine doing something that improves your life expectancy
at the expense of some part of your body.

This is massive speculation on my part.

~~~
arkades
This isn't a valid general principle. People who quit smoking late in life add
extremely low-quality disabled life years.

~~~
drewmol
As a general principal, I would disagree with the position that it's not
valid. Certainly some people who quit smoking late in life prolong a painful
cancerous demise, however I would imaging the worst of the low-quality
disabled years are often a result of the limited, desperate nature of the
available potential life-saving treatments: radiation/chemotherapy, etc. A
significant percentage of smokers quit late in life and avoid those extremely
low-quality disabled life years. Also, it seems perspective typically changes
as 'quality of life' decreases, generally resulting in the desire for
continued respiration;-)

~~~
arkades
Short version: you're thinking lung cancer. It's not, it's COPD, and it's near
ubiquitous for people who have smoked a while.

------
rfeather
I've found 1-2 walks around the parking lot per day to be a great boost to my
well-being. I usually do it solo (escape from open office overload), though at
my last job one of the more senior people would usually round up a core group
for a good half hour walk.

If anything, taking active breaks has been good for my career. Often I go when
I finish a task/segment and the quiet, outdoor time give my mind a chance to
wander and put things in context so that I can choose my next tasks
effectively.

It's anecdotal, but I suspect that the people who eat lunch at their desk and
don't get up all day aren't actually creating more value than those who take
some time. A quick search indicates there are at least some studies backing
this up [1]. I'd be curious if there is evidence that points the other way
though.

[1][http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8548292](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8548292)

------
touchofevil
I was working in visual effects where we were doing 9 to 11 hours per day of
work at a desk. Nearly everyone ending up buying their own varidesk
(varidesk.com) I can't recommend them highly enough, especially if you work at
an office where you are provided a regular desk. Varidesks just sit on top of
your regular desk. I liked using a standing desk so much, I bought a Geek Desk
for home use. geekdesk.com If you get one, be sure to get a standing desk
floor mat as well.

------
jbb67
I'd like to be able to sit much of the time but have frequent short periods of
standing. But even adjustable standing desks don't really facilitate that
well, and most of the adjustable standing desks I've seen are _worse_ sitting
desks than a standard one.

My solution it to sit but every 45 minutes go for a 1 minute walk around the
office. I'm not sure it's very effective but can't hurt too much

------
blueatlas
Like anything health related, it really depends on many factors (overall
health, genetics, other risk factors) as to weather sitting will have a
significant effect on your health. For some, it may never affect them much.
But, it won't be a short term thing - you won't know until after many years of
sitting. The negative effects of sitting aren't the kinds of things you can
reverse.

------
jonbaer
And not one mention of developing blood clots

~~~
jpindar
I have one of those under-desk exercise bikes. I don't know if it has any
overall effect on my health, but it keeps the circulation going anyway.

I definitely recommend this particular model. It's smooth and quiet, works
under a normal height desk, and is heavy enough that it doesn't slide around.

[https://www.amazon.com/DeskCycle-Exercise-Pedal-Exerciser-
Wh...](https://www.amazon.com/DeskCycle-Exercise-Pedal-Exerciser-
White/dp/B00B1VDNQA/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-
goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1503499919&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=deskcycle++exercise&psc=1)

------
rpmcmurphy
On modern occupational hazards....

"Alex, I'll take circular saws for $500"

Perspective people, perspective.

------
EGreg
I would say it's safe to assume most people here sit A LOT.

So what's the state of research regarding whether you can make up for it with
vigorous activity?

Does sitting itself cause problems? Seems to be some hidden variable.

~~~
_nothing
Last I remember (don't remember the source) they found that vigorous exercise
elsewhere in the day doesn't make up for it.

~~~
EGreg
The article says there is research that contradicts that though.

------
amai
Try sitting on an
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_ball](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_ball)

------
mahgnous
And yet they say standing desks are just as bad and that it's the lack of
movement.

------
keyboardmonkey
reclining workstation ftw, and getting worthy exercise elsewhere... allows for
it all, better sleep and better feeling back that I've had in years.

------
roceasta
If sitting is so bad why is meditation considered to be so good an' healthy?

[http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-11-19-ChairSittingGood...](http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-11-19-ChairSittingGood.jpg)

My guess is this problem is not to do with sitting per se; it's how your
(partly unconscious) attention is distributed. It's not just work/gaming/movie
that requires bandwidth, the body needs some too. If you can't walk about then
better posture and even little things like wiggling your toes might be
helpful.

~~~
35bge57dtjku
Maybe because you don't meditate for longer than an hour and sitting for less
than an hour is unlikely to give you blood clots.

~~~
roceasta
Some people _pay_ to meditate for days on end!

GP about blood clots. Likelihood of clotting also depends on sympathetic
arousal:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629605/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629605/)

So stimulation arising from eating food, drinking coffee, work stress, etc,
_whilst being seated_ would be a double whammy.

