
Sorry, keto fans, you're probably not in ketosis (2018) - devy
https://www.popsci.com/not-in-ketosis
======
eigenspace
I feel like this is a pretty sensationalist article. In particular, it seems
to assume that people on keto aren't doing quantitative checks to see if
they're in ketosis.

I know that back when I did keto, I was checking my urine ketone levels twice
daily for weeks before I was able to 'feel' if I was in ketosis. Maintaining
ketosis was difficult and I had to closely monitor my food but I honestly
found it to not be that bad a diet once I got used to it. Your milage may
vary.

I guess I should just acknowledge that the article isn't actually addressing
me personally, but I can't help but feel there are many people out there doing
keto who are actually measuring their ketones and know whether or not they're
in ketosis.

That's also the standard advice you'll get from almost anyone who gives advice
on doing keto.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
It looks like a pretty typical keto/low carb hit job piece.

You get a couple quotes from nutritionists who are ignorant of the current
science, add a couple turns-out facts, and you have a great click bait
article.

~~~
Relys
ding ding ding.

There's a lot of industries set up to loose money the more people wake up to
learning about modern nutritional science. Regardless of motive people in
general love to hear that their bad habits are totally ok so they can
rationalize it for themselves and continue their behavior.

------
darn2heck
It really isn't as difficult to get into ketosis and safely maintain it for a
reasonable duration as that article suggests.

Plenty of green leafy veg (The more the merrier for most), moderate to
slightly higher protein, extra fibre from low carb sources, slightly increased
water intake, high-fat, and low-carb (<20 g/day from veg if possible).
Unsweetened, low-suger high-fat Yoghurt for breakfast with a few nuts or seeds
(+ erythritol and stevia if you want a bit of sweetness). Salads with olive
oil and a bit of cheese or meat for lunch. A variety of green-veg-heavy, keto-
suitable recipes for a pleasant evening meal (Things like creamy or cheesy
sauces are great plus curries can be readily adapted with cauliflower rice,
cauliflower pizza is another favourite, and a lot of pasta sauces don't taste
too bad with lettuce once you get past the initial disappointment).

It isn't that hard if you are determined and plan your meals/diet whilst
considering the sources of your essential nutrients.

Personally I experienced some mild keto-cramps after about two weeks and upped
my magnesium intake which cured those quite quickly. Then I started losing
weight; I've literally just lost 2 stone (And counting) by following a keto
diet.

It isn't as easy as some people make it sound but that doesn't make that
article accurate. All of the advice I know about for how to have a healthy
keto-diet addresses the exact things that they imply are common
problems/dangers of keto.

My advice to anyone considering keto would be to read the studies for yourself
(If I remember right several good-quality studies are freely available through
google scholar) and follow some of the well-known keto-blogs' advice on having
a balanced keto diet so that your general nutrition is kept well balanced.

Keto does work for weightloss but it does still take moderation, thought, and
will-power. It isn't magic but it is far from impossible.

------
unstatusthequo
I did keto and had a ketone strip tester based on blood drop tests. Not urine
becuase it's not as accurate. It's definitely possible if you're disciplined
and follow it properly.

~~~
eigenspace
Sure blood is much more accurate than urine, but it's my understanding that
the urine strips will at least tell you reliably if you're in ketosis or not.
The ketone concentrations just might not have a simple mapping onto your blood
ketone concentrations.

~~~
tracker1
Once you're further in and adapted to ketosis, you won't see urine
confirmation as your body won't be producing enough excess ketones that it
shows up in the urine.

The body is really good at becoming efficient at doing things.

~~~
eigenspace
Really? It was my understanding that the urine confirmation would be
diminished, but almost always not completely washed out. That's good to be
aware of if true though.

------
xchaotic
So what's a good alternative for burning fat that you already have? I am in a
caloric deficit and do long exercises to burn fat but I'm not sure if it
actually works - my weight is down a bit but it usually is in the spring
anyway

~~~
ebg13
> _I am in a caloric deficit and do long exercises but I 'm not sure if it
> actually works_

Being in caloric deficit while exercising must work by definition. All advice
that I've seen for exercising though is that, modulo specific advice from your
doctor[0], you should do high intensity heavy lifting exercise (like squats)
for shorter periods for maximum effect. It's both more gratifying (and
therefore sustainable) and more efficient.

[0] - a person who suffers from lumbar disc degeneration, for instance, could
carry only half or less of the weight but do their squats one leg at a time
with a balance assist for the same overall muscle building with significantly
less back strain.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
The caloric deficit line of thought is true, but it doesn't really take into
account that people are impulsive and don't really have free will. You need a
way of eating that is maintainable and doesn't constantly require resisting
impulses.

To paraphrase Peter Attia, to say that the reason people are overweight is
they eat too much, is like saying Bill Gates is rich because he made more
money than he spent. It's by definition true, but has no explanatory power.

~~~
tracker1
Most of impulse control is circadian... A mono diet or shifting to OMAD or
doing a 3-7 day fast can all help reset how you feel in terms of hunger. It's
a matter of understanding that you aren't going to starve to death, drink some
water and wait a half hour. The feeling will usually just go away if you keep
busy. After a few days, it will become more normal.

I find that One Meal a Day works incredibly well as for most people, it's VERY
hard to over-eat (for a day) in a single meal in under an hour. The other
issue, is I feel that people were sold on low fat, don't eat meat, etc, and I
think that has been harmful overall.

Impulse control can be better over time, but the social triggers are the
worst.

------
jeremywho
> but without a nutritionist guiding you it’s still hard to get down into
> ketosis.

I guess this is geared towards people who read a blog and decide they want to
try it without educating themselves?

~~~
tracker1
It happens a _LOT_ ... many people "try" keto, but they wind up just eating
low calorie, cutting the carbs, but not adding fattier foods in. You still
want a calorie deficit and it isn't magic. Calories and Hormones (insulin,
etc) are both huge, overriding factors.

------
mirceal
An article from popsci cannot be wrong, right?

The truth is somewhere in between as always. Some people find it really hard
to follow a Keto diet. What has worked for me is to cut out sugars and refined
carbs completely from my diet. This paired with Intermittent Fasting (IF)
works wonders for burning fat. You can do 16:8, 20:4, OMAD and/or extended
fasting.

When you're fasting your body will break down fat as it really has no choice.

~~~
the-rc
I run anywhere from 30 to 70 miles per week and I just couldn't follow a keto
diet. I have a hard time even just picturing it. Just the other day I was
reading about a recent study showing that low-carb diets affect your running.
That already made intuitive sense if you had been in a marathon and hit the
proverbial wall at mile 20, roughly when you have depleted the glycogen stores
in your legs and start burning fat. Of course the general population is
different and doesn't obsess over their 10K times.

There are other factors that play a major role. I don't like meat much. I'm
lactose intolerant. I've always had a sugar tooth. Thanks to lucky genes, a
very active thyroid and the running, though, my body fat stays around 8-9%.
Over the years, I learned to crave carbs less and to pay more attention to
protein. I do some form of intermittent fasting, by accident, in the sense
that I have early dinner, mostly for sleep hygiene, and rarely eat again until
after my morning run, about 14 hours later.

There's no single approach that works for everyone, of course. Worse than
that, though, is that even if you find the motivation to try a variety of
them, you probably want to spend at the very least several weeks on each
before you can start extrapolating useful observations.

~~~
jhayward
Why were you trying to use a keto diet with body fat at < 10%, which is
bordering on "too low"?

~~~
the-rc
I know I'm skinny, so I never tried to lose weight or looked at it as a keto
diet per se. I don't think I even knew the term at the time. It was more about
replacing carbs with proteins. During the winter, when I eat just the same,
but only run half the distance, fat goes up to 10-11%.

------
strikelaserclaw
I've tried all sort of diets, keto included, the best diet i found is to eat
nutritious and balanced diet in moderate quantity (i.e change your
relationship with food). Keto in my opinion is too extreme, and is mostly done
by people with poor relationship towards food (myself included). This recent
diet trend is mainly because modern society made eating a hobby and escape
along with forcing most of humanity to live sedentary lives.

~~~
tracker1
While I agree with you... Keto is best for people who are type 2 diabetic or
borderline. And with that I would say Paleo + Keto macro profile. If you are
closer to a healthy weight, then Paleo and good habits goes a long way. One
Meal a Day also helps a lot simply because it's harder to overeat in a single
meal.

IMHO grains/refined carbs (bread/starch/pasta) etc should be limited to a
couple meals a week... and refined sugars should be limited to one or two
treats a month.

~~~
officialchicken
>Keto is best for people who are type 2 diabetic or borderline

Citation, please. Because as far as I am aware, it's not recommended in any
medical journal.

~~~
tracker1
2019 Diabetes Association Guidelines were changed to add low-carb, which is
the only diet of those recommended to have shown any benefit in a controlled
study. Linking to one of the first search results below. I happen to follow
low carb down under and a few other resources that tend to show more data,
etc. US and EU healthcare guidelines are dragging, mostly out of funding
sources (big agriculture companies)

[https://www.lchf-rd.com/2018/12/18/low-carb-diet-
in-2019-ame...](https://www.lchf-rd.com/2018/12/18/low-carb-diet-
in-2019-american-diabetes-association-standards-of-care/)

------
HNLurker2
>keto diet is used as a treatment of epilepsy in children or infant

God I love being a kid. Iget ez in ketosis

------
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