

Ask YC: MacBook alternative? - ichverstehe

I might be replacing my MacBook with a regular x86 running Linux. It's simply beginning to piss me off that it breaks all the time. Crappy build quality.<p>But I really like the size–13.3"–and the look. A lot of regular laptops are basically freakin' bloated. Same price range as the regular MacBook.<p>Any alternatives? I know of the Vaios.
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babo
ThinkPad X series are more robust the Macbook from my experience, we use them
on the field for on-site data processing. Conditions are harsh, basically the
is no care but heat and bumps but the ThinkPads just keep going. I was forced
to switch to a Macbook from an X60 but still missing it.

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Kaizyn
ThinkPads are/were nice. I've been a bit concerned about reduced quality since
Lenovo took over from IBM, though admittedly I haven't seen any problems with
the newer Lenovo machines I've had to work with that would justify such
concerns.

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vizard
Dell XPS M1330 preloaded with Ubuntu. No hassles of installation at least. In
any case whatever notebook you choose, do a bit of research to find out that
the wireless card works properly under linux. I have had decent experience
with Intel's wifi cards since drivers are open source and hence included in
most distros. Wifi is the number one annoyance on most notebooks.

edit : I wud advice to look for "Centrino" branded stuff. That usually works
out of the box. But YMMV.

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jobeirne
I had an Inspiron 1420 that I believe packs the same graphics card as the
M1330 currently ships with and had a pretty awful experience trying to get
Linux (or Windows, for that matter) to drive it well. It was very choppy. I
believe it was an 8400M GS.

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stcredzero
I have a coworker with the Dell 1420 laptop that's preloaded with Ubuntu, and
he hasn't had a lick of trouble. I also installed Xubuntu on my Inspiron 1750
multimedia laptop, and once I hooked it up to my router, the Hardware Drivers
utility downloaded scripts and everything basically got installed for me.

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jobeirne
Your coworker's 'top may not have had the discrete GPU mine had; I've heard
that the integrated chip works great.

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adr
I have the same GPU and it works fine.

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donw
I'll put in another vote for the Thinkpads. Not only are they bulletproof, but
nominally _everything_ in them works under Linux, which is, even today, rare
for a lot of laptops.

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jobeirne
I've heard really scary things concerning Sony and the applicability of *nix
drivers. I'd be really weary about buying a Vaio.

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rcoder
Another vote for the ThinkPads. X60-series models are dirt cheap right now,
and pretty much impossible to beat on the combo of cost, performance,
portability, and ruggedness.

My recent-model MacBook Pro has a wonderful display panel, good discrete GPU,
and a decent-enough keyboard, but it's big, heavy, throws off tons of heat,
and lasts _at best_ four hours on a battery. My old ThinkPad X41, on the other
hand, despite being almost five years old, beats it in basically every
category other than screen size/brightness and raw CPU/GPU power.

T-series units are even sturdier and definitely keep up in CPU/GPU specs, but
there's just something about a 3-pound laptop that pretty much removes the
excuse to not have it with you all the time. (That may or may not be a good
thing for your lifestyle, of course.)

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gcv
I work on two laptops, depending on the project: a MacBook Pro, and an
X-series ThinkPad. Both are great. Granted, I'd be on the MBP all the time if
it weren't for historical reasons, but I have no complaints at all about the
ThinkPad. If you don't want to use a Mac, it's the best alternative I know of.

I had to use someone else's VAIO for a few hours recently, and it sucked. The
keyboard is lousy, and has a horrible layout if you're used to Fn and Ctrl
keys in the places where Apple and IBM (Lenovo) put them (and you don't
properly swap Caps Lock and Ctrl). I ended up plugging in an external keyboard
to be able to get anything done. In addition, the whole thing looked and felt
gimmicky.

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michaelbuckbee
Ubuntu's installer is actually a Live DVD, so it's zero risk to take one into
BestBuy, drop it into a laptop and reboot. If it comes up you're in good
shape, if not, pop it out and try the next one.

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SwellJoe
WiFi is the tricky bit. Just be sure to check that the wireless adapter is
detected. Intel wireless chipsets are open, and so have _excellent_ support in
Linux. All of the "includes Linux" laptops from Lenovo and Dell have an Intel
WiFi card rather than one of the lesser models (thus, the same model from Dell
or Lenovo running Windows will not necessarily provide "drop Linux on it
later" capability, unless you plan to replace the WiFi adapter with the Intel
version--it does seem to be a replaceable component in the Dell and Lenovo
models in question, though).

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mrtron
I have beat up my Macbook over the last 2 years - I carried it back and forth
to work for a year. I also have dropped it quite a few times.

So far so good for me - no problems. Perhaps wait a few months for the
aluminum macbooks?

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jcromartie
And I've babied mine for the last six months. Now the top case is breaking off
in pieces and the trackpad button sticks. As always seems to be the case with
hardware: YMMV.

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ichverstehe
I am encountering exactly the same issues. Already had it replaced once, two
months later the same happens. My optical drive went nuts as well. So, during
the nine months I have had a MacBook, so far it spent almost two months at
repairs -- unless I pay $200 upfront, a simple repair takes two weeks.

Rip. Off.

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mrtron
Where is that at? I get mine back within 48 hours or something like that from
the Toronto store - but usually it is much quicker.

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ichverstehe
Denmark. There are no official Apple stores, so it's this company Humac
handling all Apple business, which results in a tedious process, e.g. they
can't perform simple fixes in the store, because they are not allowed to buy
spare parts from Apple until they actually have the computer.

So, it's not directly Apples fault, but still, they should hire somebody else
to do it. When your job is your computer two weeks without it is a very, very
long time.

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edb
I've been running a Dell Inspiron 6400. If you buy it with a warranty, second
LCD, etc.. and know how to talk to the salespeople, you can get it loaded up
with all kinds of hardware upgrades for cheap, ESPECIALLY if you buy the 3
year warranty, and it will still be cheaper than a Macbook Pro.

I'm dual booting XP (for my music stuff) and Hardy on it (for my programming
stuff) without a hitch, it has 1680x1050 resolution (screen real estate that
the macbooks just can't compete with), swanky compiz effects to rival osx's
and if anything on my machine goes wrong within the 3 years after purchasing,
dell will fix it within 5 days. ANYTHING. (Used it once. Got my laptop back 3
days after I mailed it in!) The warranty alone is the main selling point for
these machines.

I can't think of a better price/quality ratio than the Dells

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darjen
Work provides me with a Thinkpad T60 and I couldn't be happier with it. I
would never buy a different notebook again, not even a Macbook.

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mdweezer
The HP Mini Note is a pretty awesome little machine. Decent horsepower for
every day needs. Small form factor. Solid build with an aluminum case. High
1280 x 768 resolution display. Easily drop in a larger battery. Has Linux
installed out of the box (though I would swap out for an Ubuntu spin off,
Xubuntu maybe).

Plut it's cheap. Search YouTube for some nice reviews and comparisons.

[http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-mini-note-2133-pc-
via-c7-m-ulv-1-...](http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-mini-note-2133-pc-
via-c7-m-ulv-1-2ghz-128kb-l2-1gb-ddr2-sdram-120gb/q/loc/101/207873474.html)

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gtani
The last thread

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=197182>

You can get used to pretty much anything, except Sony's. I, and friends have
had reasonable experiences with Toshiba satellites. They score tolerably well
on the 4 deal killers: display, keyboard, fan noise and heat. The best thing
is that Costco and Target sell them with 90-day return policies (restocking
fee at Target). Besides these criteria, i look for at least 4 or 5 intelligent
reviews on amazon.

read the 5-star sony reviews on Amazon, many of them say: my Vaio's great,
except for bloatware, and poor reliability, keyboard, battery life and
customer support/service. Sony's customer service pretty much guarantees
you'll never buy another sony if you have to contact them.

Computer repair people will tell you to stay away from vaios, Takes a
ridiculous amount of work to replace e.g. harddrive, it's almost as if they're
designed to be impossible to service/replace. Any other laptop, should take 45
seconds. i also had a horrible experience trying unsuccessfully to upgrade
Windows on a Vaio a couple years back. You too when you have to resinstall O/S
and can't find the media. Sony really pisses me off

I would caution to stay away from firs tproduction runs of a new generation of
apple laptops. Witness people cooking eggs on the early 2006 MBP's, and MB
airs throttled down to one core

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saundby
My Eee PC has pretty well replaced my MacBook as my portable. It's smaller
than what you're looking at, though there are larger models out now like the
Eee PC 1000. Linux is already on them, no Windows Tax necessary if you buy a
Linux preinstall. Dev tools install easily, or you can get a different distro
that already has what you want, there are several that are tuned for Eee's.

A large part of the reason my Eee goes with me rather than my MacBook is that
it's a lot more robust than the MacBook. I can treat the Eee pretty much the
same way I would treat a book when I take it with me. It's a solid little
chunk, and it cost about 1/4 what my MacBook cost.

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gtani
FYI: Last time my powerbook logic board replaced (3 weeks ago, 2nd time in 4
months!) they told me to not flex the chassis / logic board. So i got a rigid
case (Brenthaven) and try to only use it on tables now.

also, if it's the same thing failing over and over, talk to a manager at apple
store about getting a replacement. They can look up repair history, verify
that it's a looper.

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ensignavenger
Asustek- they are the primary contract manufacturer for the MacBook, and they
make their own systems (Asus).

Their website is a pain to get information from, as they rely on their
reseller partners (like me) to sell their products.

Full Disclosure: I sell Ausus products, and therefore might be biased. But
then, I wouldn't be selling their products if I didn't like them!

~~~
ensignavenger
By the way, Asus pre installs Linux on their Eee PC's, and you can install it
on pretty much any of their systems.

The Eee PC's are small, low cost systems.

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apgwoz
Lenovo has the X300 (13" widescreen) which is a bit pricey. They're also
releasing soon the X200 (12" widescreen), which I don't know the price of.
I've had good luck with ThinkPads in the past (X22, 240), so I may wait for
the X200, but am thinking strongly about the IdeaPad U110.

I've also had good luck with Fujitsu Lifebooks, and might give them another
shot.

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timcederman
I picked up my Dell XPS M1330 on sale for $500 (with 3gb of RAM, nVidia video
card, etc). Definitely can't complain.

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davidw
Dell:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=197364>

The customer service is what convinced me that I'd get another one in the
future. I paid a bit extra for it, but then again, this computer _is_ my
business, so it makes sense.

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qhoxie
I went through the same search recently. Had it narrowed to a Thinkpad (T or
X), M1330, and a Latitude D630. I did lots of reading and hands on
comparisons, and I ended up going with the D630. Could not be happier. It is
extremely rugged, on par with a Thinkpad, and the battery life is
unparalleled.

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RK
Anyone have experience with the machines from System76? I've been looking at
their new Darter Ultra laptop:

[http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_i...](http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=76)

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browser411
Dell's vostro (business) line is very nice if you don't want to shell out for
XPS. I got a 14", which they don't make any more but I think is the sweet spot
for screen size, personally. Build quality is extremely solid and design is
nondescript, which fits my style.

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vineet7kumar
One more vote for thinkpad ... I always wanted a macbook but when I saw the
Thinkpad it was instantly like "Wow this is it ! How could I overlook it for
so long ". Specially I liked the Thinkpad's keyboard much over thinkpad's

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safetytrick
Love my thinkpad, but is miss my ibook, dead after 5 years of faithful
service. I had a real aversion to any laptop not made by apple but this the
t61 has been a great laptop since I got it a month or so ago.

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walesmd
The Vaios are insanely sweet - but really expensive. Personally, I have a
Panasonic CF-W4. I like it but often experience issues with the low amount of
memory (512MB).

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makecheck
I have heard many good things about ThinkPads, but never used them.

Having said that, I would only ever buy a MacBook. :)

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cglee
I've only ever used Thinkpads (from T20 to T61) and now am on MBP. The TPs are
definitely built sturdier. I used to carry them in a very flimsy backpack and
all of the TPs weathered that fine. That being said, after I bought my MBP, I
bought a nice backpack to protect it. And obviously, the difference is in the
software.

I think the major diff between a TP and MBP is like the diff between a Jeep
Wrangler and a Porsche. Just depends on what you need it for and your OS
preferences.

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mattmaroon
I'd say more like a Lexus and a Porsche. The Jeep Wrangler would be eMachines.

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cglee
That would be a Geo Metro. I love Wranglers, but for entirely different
reasons than I love Porsches.

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0000vk
can't go wrong with this mate:

[http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xps...](http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1330?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&~oid=us~en~29~linux_4~~)

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tptacek
We have the same build quality problems. So we just buy spares. MacBooks are
dirt cheap!

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spydez
Can I have some of your dirt?

For me (and I'm guessing for most others), MacBooks cost the majority of a
paycheck... Certainly not cheap enough to buy _spares_.

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tptacek
Sure, I guess? Come work for us? Companies buy their employees laptops.
Macbooks are cheaper than comparable Lenovos or Dells.

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nailer
They're comparable in the US, but in every other coutnry there's a massive
premium on Apple hardware compared to non-Apple. Check out the prices on
apple.co.uk or apple.com.au.

~~~
tptacek
That sucks. Here, they're essentially disposable. Compared to salary and
overhead, you can probably buy 2 MacBooks per team member and not even notice
it.

If a MacBook cost 3x as much, I would definitely have issues over the build
quality. My MacBook is currently duct taped together.

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eisokant
I would recommend the VAIOs. I am looking at the new Z series myself.

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gaius
I have friends at Sony. Sony issues Thinkpads to its own staff. I would be
very surprised if Apple did the same.

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aoeu
Just curious, can I ask where?

(I've been at Sony for nearly nine years and almost all laptops I've seen have
been VAIOs).

~~~
gaius
NYC

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lyime
X200 or X300

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vineet7kumar
Errata : .... over macbook's.

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axod
How has it broken? Consider getting a MacBook pro or air... Slightly better
build quality.

You won't find anything better from other manufacturers IMHO.

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ichverstehe
They are simply too expensive for my non-budget.

