
Is the Berlin Airport ready yet? - chrtze
http://istderberschonfertig.de/
======
ptaipale
Fun page. The whole BER project and its delays is such an astonishing example
of management that it is hard to believe it happened. I first thought it could
only happen in some 3rd world country, but in fact, it couldn't happen in a
3rd world country. In a 3rd world country, the political leadership would
simply jail bureaucrats until someone signs off the safety papers and says, go
ahead and open the airport, never mind that the fire safety regulations were
not followed.

But in Germany it was possible to have a) strong-willed politically elected
project leaders who think they can waive off the regulations, and b)
bureaucrats who still stick to the rules and keep their jobs.

What was most surprising was how the opening of this airport was "on track"
until almost the last minute. I could imagine that many subprojects were late,
but every subproject knew that some other subproject is even more late than
they are, so everyone kept reporting "on track and in schedule" trusting that
the other part will get the blame. Until the bubble burst.

In a way, this affair, although ridiculous, is a compliment to the safety
culture and integrity of German bureaucracy, even if it irritates those of us
who are squeezed at TXL.

~~~
emilsedgh
_In a 3rd world country, the political leadership would simply jail
bureaucrats_

You have a sweet understanding of third world countries.

In a third world country (at least the one I live in) all projects have the
same fate. That's the default path a project takes. And that's not due to
mismanagement but corruption.

Edit: Spelling mistake.

~~~
ptaipale
I had "parse error", but with faith I suppose you mean fate?

Well, I was painting with a broad brush, of course. Sorry about that. There
are many very different 3rd world countries. Botswana is different from
Zimbabwe even if it is not that far away, but generally, in the 3rd world, you
can expect delays and that things are mañana or insha'allah. And many
countries have autocratic leaders who wouldn't put up with fire regulations
delaying an important project. Yes, it might be acceptable that the project is
delayed because the material for runway pavement was used to build the road to
El Presidente's summer house so he can get there when he wants to avoid
Scorchio. But it wouldn't be acceptable that he doesn't get to cut the tape in
an opening ceremony because some stupid says the smoke eviction ducts in the
terminal are built wrong.

~~~
emilsedgh
Yes. Sorry, fate is the correct word. I will correct my post now.

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phreeza
As an explanation for non-germans: Berlin is supposed to get a new airport,
the BER, but the project is massively mismanaged, and already way over
schedule and budget. Recently, for the first time, a schedule for completion
has been released. This site provides a way to track the progress made on this
schedule.

~~~
id
They released many schedules over the years, the first announced opening date
was 1997 [1]. They even postponed dates for the announcement of (new) dates.

[1]
[http://www.bertrug.de/Geplante_Inbetriebnahmen_Flughafen_BER](http://www.bertrug.de/Geplante_Inbetriebnahmen_Flughafen_BER)

~~~
phreeza
Did they release schedules or just completion dates? I was just parroting what
the Morgenpost wrote on the page, "Erstmals gibt es einen Terminplan, mit dem
wir den Baufortschritt regelmäßig überprüfen können."

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probably_wrong
For those that are not aware, the delays regarding the Berlin Airport are a
running joke by now. And to add insult to injury, there are estimations that
the new airport may already be too small to handle the projected number of
flights to and from Berlin.

Just like the Therac-25[1] is used a a case study for proper software
engineering, I'm positive the BER will be taught in engineering schools as a
cautionary tale one day.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25)

~~~
Someone1234
Was it an engineering problem? Why would you teach this in engineering school?
Looks like the project was hopelessly mismanagement, so likely above the heads
of the engineers.

~~~
weinzierl
There are different opinions but most people don't think it was a engineering
problem. From the beginning the project had three responsible managers with
different interests: Klaus Wowereit (Governing Mayor of Berlin), Matthias
Platzeck (Minister-President of Brandenburg) and Meinhard von Gerkan (famous
Architect).

Meinhard von Gerkan published a book about the project, offering his view:
Blackbox BER [1]

[1] [http://www.amazon.de/Black-Box-BER-Brandenburg-
Gro%C3%9Fbaus...](http://www.amazon.de/Black-Box-BER-Brandenburg-
Gro%C3%9Fbaustellen/dp/3869950609/ref=la_B001JOMZKO_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1433429865&sr=1-1)

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kennon42
For you German speakers, this is a hilarious article (on the German answer to
The Onion) about having to create a new verb tense in order to discuss the
airport: [http://www.der-postillon.com/2012/08/neue-zeitform-futur-
iii...](http://www.der-postillon.com/2012/08/neue-zeitform-futur-iii-
eingefuhrt-um.html) (2012)

~~~
aetherson
Wow. That's incredible. I'm not really literate enough in German to get that
many of the jokes, but just the headline is awesome.

------
FullRetard
Ha! That's nothing. In Sweden we've been building a tunnel since 1992 and
managed to create a poison scandal in the process.

Current estimates is that it will be completed this year.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallands%C3%A5s_Tunnel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallands%C3%A5s_Tunnel)

~~~
ics
We might've got you beat there...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway)

"The Second Avenue Subway has been a plan, and occasional construction
project, since 1929. The reasons for the line's many false starts and delays
are numerous and complex. The line is sometimes referred to as 'The Line That
Time Forgot'."

~~~
chkuendig
In better news, Switzerland just announced the date for the opening of its
biggest infrastructure project ever :)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel)

edit:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9659697](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9659697)

------
allendoerfer
The airport contributes to the overall image the rest of Germany has of
Berlin: A subsidized place where politians hide and everybody else has an art
(or nowadays startup) project going on and real work is only done when punks
gather on May 1st to throw stones at the police.

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Loque
I quite like the site, having lived in Berlin for a little bit I am also aware
of the fact the new airport is quite a discussion point... personally I will
be sad to see Tegel go as it represents simple air travel which just worked
(maybe just lucky for me)... Schonefeld was never that enjoyable in
comparison, but meh, it's just a means to an end :-).

Also, I think many people who have setup buildings/shops in Berlin will tell
you the regulations (especially ones around fire) are infuriating.

~~~
kayoone
Tegel might be efficient once you know your way around, but god is it a
confusing claustrophobic mess.

------
panamafrank
So they built the terminals with a novel smoke extraction system where the
smoke extraction vents were placed on the floor rather than the ceiling, upon
the final fire safety inspection the buildings didn't pass and given the
complete integration of the system with the structure the only realistic
option was to pretty much rip them down and start again.

~~~
sageabilly
"...novel smoke extraction system where the smoke extraction vents were placed
on the floor": How does that make any sense whatsoever? Are there any links
explaining how it's supposed to work?

------
scarhill
This recent Econlog podcast has a good discussion of megaprojects and why they
fail:
[http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/bent_flyvbjerg.html](http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/bent_flyvbjerg.html)

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farslan
I thought Berlin has many airports (I remember Tegel and the other one). So
this is another new one ? If yes, why is there a need for a new one :) For
example Frankfurt has only one and it's capable much more than Berlin, because
it's also a Hub for Lufthansa.

~~~
otterley
The two operating airports are tiny, Cold-War-era relics that aren't sized
appropriately for a large city. FRA is probably 20 times the size of TXL in
terms of footprint.

They also lack many modern conveniences that travelers expect. TXL has a
Burger King, a convenience store, and maybe one working power outlet.

~~~
cyphunk
Traverls expect their airport to be like a kafkaesque mall that forces them to
see all the possible wares they can purchases before getting out of it.

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gerbal
Wasn't that airport supposed to be open in 2010?

~~~
ptaipale
When planning the project in 2000, the tentative opening was planned for 2007,
but that was clearly too optimistic even if everything had been done properly.
The attempt to actually open in 2012 was quite serious, and transfer from TXL
was supposed to be just weeks away after the final acceptance round (which
then failed spectacularly).

~~~
synacksynack
To corroborate its seriousness, I actually had a ticket issued to BER in 2012
that was changed to TXL about a month before the flight.

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vonklaus
Nein.

