
What Happened to Threadless? - lnguyen
https://www.racked.com/2017/11/6/16551468/threadless-t-shirts-ecommerce
======
kawsper
> Concerns about controlling quality make sense given that artists on
> Threadless’s forum complain that they’re unable to promote their work
> because the print quality has dropped to the point that designs flake off
> after a few washes. Reviewers say the sizing, feel, and weight of
> Threadless’s shirts is inconsistent and getting worse over time, with some
> customers reporting that shirts bought five to 10 years ago are still
> holding up better than those purchased this year.

This is exactly what happened to me, I used to wear a lot of their t-shirts,
and needed a couple of new ones, so I did an order, and the fit had changed
completely and they started loosing their print after a few washes.

I didn't bother contact them, since I did not want to get into a "ship items
back, receive item again and pay import taxes again"-cycle and wrote them off.

They have been turning on their marketing emails a lot with me last couple of
weeks, I think they are bleeding.

~~~
bsder
> some customers reporting that shirts bought five to 10 years ago are still
> holding up better than those purchased this year.

This isn't just a Threadless problem. _All_ T-shirts now seem to be made out
of this thin stretchy garbage material--good if you are an Italian model, bad
if you are a normal 40 year old.

I'd kill for a supplier that actually still uses nice solid cotton material
that drapes rather than stretches.

~~~
radicalbyte
The premium t-shirt from teefury is good. It's high quality cotton and the fit
is fine for a fast b __ __*d like me :) The print doesn 't last forever
though, about a year for the big prints (same as Threadless was back when they
didn't suck).

~~~
spiznnx
>fast b*d

fat b∗∗∗∗∗d?

------
tedmiston
Something else not mentioned in the article is that graphic tees have fallen
in popularity in the past decade vs plain t-shirts.

I'm just one data point but having purchased from Threadless a few times, I
haven't bought one graphic tee in the past five years or more. The novelty of
a graphic tee wears off quickly. I'd rather have a more expensive but high
quality plain shirt I'll like for years to come.

~~~
scrooched_moose
Have they fallen in popularity or have you aged out of the target market?

Same "single data point" disclaimer, but most of my peers lost interest in
them mid-college when they began dressing more mature. The high schoolers I
know still wear graphic tees but for whatever reason Threadless never
connected with the next generation.

~~~
jamestimmins
"for whatever reason Threadless never connected with the next generation"

This is super insightful, and shouldn't be missed here. For them to stay
successful for 17 years amongst a 5-10 year age group, they would need to
completely refresh their customer base 2-3 times. That type of cultural
relevancy is extremely hard, as anyone watching FB/Instagram vs Twitter vs
Snap can attest.

------
Freak_NL
I wonder if they lost a lot of non-US/Canada customers (like me) when they
changed their printing set-up. You used to be able to buy a couple of T-shirts
and have them shipped as one batch, so shipping and handling fees were
reasonable when you ordered three T-shirts at once. I've gotten a good number
of shirts from them this way.

A few years ago I tried ordering a few T-shirts again, but didn't get past the
final order screen because custom-printed using Direct-to-Garment T-shirts had
varying processing times, so I would have had to pay shipping fees for each
separate T-shirt. That may be fine for domestic shipping (and Canada), but it
quickly turns the deal unappealingly expensive anywhere else.

------
dkarl
_Threadless announced Artist Shops in 2015 and rolled them out to Threadless’s
general community in early 2016. Artist Shops, still in existence, allow
designers to sell items printed with any design (allowed by Threadless’s terms
and conditions) directly to customers and receive royalties on each sale....

The shift to a more equitable royalties and rights model removed the
gamification elements of Threadless that made the site so addictive to some
designers and users... many designers said that the windfall $2,500 prize for
winning the weekly design competition was preferable to them and they lost the
motivation to submit designs due to the change. _

That's a pretty dark lesson in human nature. If you give somebody nothing,
they'll judge you by the big payoff you gave to someone else. If you give them
a little more than nothing, they'll judge you by that. Better to give a few
people a lot and give the rest nothing but dreams so everyone will always see
you in a positive light.

~~~
strebler
Why is it so surprising? From both the designer and shopper perspectives, the
Old Way does seem better.

With the Old Way:

Designer: does N work to create a design and has X% chance of winning $2500.
They focus on what they love (i.e. design) and can get a nice quick payout if
they're good. This is even better than a lottery, because it has the same
excitement, but talent is also a factor which is very motivating. The
marketing is done for them. Competing head to head is also kind of fun.

Shopper: look at the top / winning shirts and buy one if they like it. Paradox
of Choice is not a problem.

With the New Way:

Designer: needs to setup a shop, do N work to create a design, then M work to
market the shirt, and needs to sell nearly 400 t-shirts to get to that payout.
For the winners to achieve the same outcome, it's a lot more work. For most
designers, I think it's safe to assume that the marketing part is nowhere near
as fun as the design part. The excitement factor is totally gone.

Shopper: has to wade through tons of shirts to figure out which one they like.
Paradox of Choice is signifcant.

~~~
mikepurvis
I totally agree, but I bet it changed because the Old Way is _worse from the
perspective of Threadless_. Specifically, each contest needs to result in a
shirt that they can sell more and more of in order to maintain growth. That
pushes you toward a bland, inoffensive, mass-market design. They think they
can ultimately maximize profits by doing the etsy/cafepress model, where it's
loads of vendors on the ground doing their own thing, and the marketplace
supplier just floats above the fray collecting a slice every time money
changes hands.

~~~
vec
Yeah, but why did Threadless possibly need to "maintain growth"?

They had a sustainable small business model. They could have consciously
leveled off when they hit their natural equilibrium and remained a profitable
niche vendor in perpetuity. Instead, it appears they threw out their existing
succesful business model and a good chunk of their reputation trying to scale
beyond their natural limits.

What's wrong with being small if you're good at it?

~~~
technofiend
>Yeah, but why did Threadless possibly need to "maintain growth"?

MBA disease: Every MBA learns their reason for existing is to grow the
business and extract maximum value for shareholders.

------
nicpottier
I really loved Threadless back in the day and this was an interesting read.
While it did a good job of covering what changes Threadless made that
ultimately changed the culture around it and led to its fall, it didn't cover
the why.

Was their model no longer profitable? Were they facing outside competition
(and what was that competition doing better?). Did they take money and have to
grow big / fast and therefore started selling to big box stores to increase
revenues?

I don't see any reason why Threadless couldn't still be a profitable business
(god forbid a lifestyle business) even today if they had maintained their
cachet but maybe I'm missing something.

~~~
foepys
There is [https://www.qwertee.com](https://www.qwertee.com) for more "nerd-
oriented" stuff. But I never used them, only looked at some designs.

~~~
loopbit
I have quite a few and I'm happy enough with them. They also have some sizing
issues but all it usually mean is that one tshirt will be a bit tighter/looser
than other of the same size (the fact that I'm between two sizes doesn't help)
but the print quality is decent.

------
soniman
The article fails to mention that there is a ton of competition and Threadless
has been trounced by Redbubble, Society6, Teepublic, etc. Plus, t-shirts alone
is not enough to sustain a site. Stickers, iPhone cases, mugs, etc etc.
Threadless is a good example of the dangers of premature profitability.

~~~
jasongill
"premature profitability"? I think it's easy to sit on the outside of a
business and judge it smugly, but considering that the estimated net worth of
the founder is north of $50mil ([https://www.fundera.com/blog/successful-
entrepreneurs](https://www.fundera.com/blog/successful-entrepreneurs)), I
don't think he would say that there is anything wrong with their "premature
profitability".

Maybe there is mismanagement, or poor decisions, or just not staying ahead of
trends in the market - but putting millions of dollars into the pockets of the
business owners is the intent of all businesses. Knocking that as "premature
profitability" seems silly

~~~
soniman
Society6 and Redbubble are still losing money but they will also crush
Threadless by the time it's over. This is a winner take all marketplace
business, not a t-shirt business.

~~~
GVIrish
You say that as if there's a guarantee that the upstarts will find a way to be
profitable once they've spent several years losing money. The barriers to
entry are pretty low in the t-shirt business so it's not like there's some
golden goose to be captured after millions of dollars of capital are set on
fire.

~~~
soniman
It's not a t-shirt business, it's a marketplace where designers sell their
designs and the designs are placed on t-shirts, mugs, carpets, stickers, etc.
So basically these sites are like eBay but for artists. Like any marketplace
business, it takes a long time to build up both sides of the marketplace but
once it's in place, it's very hard to compete with.

~~~
_puk
As with much of this, I can see amazon eating it all [0].

They have the marketplace and the tooling already, just artificially limiting
scale.

0: [https://merch.amazon.com/landing](https://merch.amazon.com/landing)

~~~
soniman
There has to be an element of cool and fun. These are artists, they want to be
where the cool people are . . . and that's not Amazon.

------
vasilia
Are there any alternatives to Threadless? Tees from my last order have a
completely horrible quality.

~~~
tauntz
Expanding on that - what's your go-to T-shirt shop inside the EU? Ordering
from Threadless (US) to the EU is quite expensive (shipping + taxes) and I
haven't found a quality EU alternative yet.

~~~
loopbit
I usually go to qwertee
([https://www.qwertee.com/](https://www.qwertee.com/)). As I've said in
another comment I've had some minor sizing issues but the print quality is
decent enough.

~~~
Freak_NL
Side note:

I am looking at Qwertee and want to find out about their business model and
designer compensation, but whenever I approach the page footer, a new batch of
T-shirts thumbnails is loaded in the page content pushing the footer away…

Someone didn't think that one through.

 _Edit:_

> Artists/Designers receive 1 Euro per shirt sold or USD or GBP equivalent.
> You also retain all rights to your artwork before, during and after it
> appears on Qwertee (most other t shirt design sites want ownership of your
> design forever).

~~~
Hoasi
> most other t shirt design sites want ownership of your design forever

Threadless legal notice states you own and will maintain ownership of your
design(s) after submission.

------
rsoto
Threadless was such an inspiration for me 15+ years ago. They found a niche
and created a wonderful marketplace in which the artists got paid well (I
remember each design was bought for $5K) and so the consumer would get more
variety, so they would come back and the cycle goes on forever.

Or so we tought. I never bought a tee from them, since the international
shipping fees were too high. And when they did, the stigma about their poor
quality was very loud.

However I can't believe they're that low. Turns out quality does matter, and
not just a very good design.

~~~
EADGBE
I thought the article said it paid artists $750 for a design with a $250
credit for shirts.

~~~
rsoto
What I'm saying is what I remember back then, the article says it was up to
$2,500 but I remember it was more as I myself was considering submitting a
design.

$750 cash + $250 gift card is the price in these days.

------
petepete
> Threadless fans report that the shirts now appear in UK T.J. Maxx stores

Over here they're known as TK Maxx.

~~~
raverbashing
I think the TK Maxx name is not only in the UK but all over Europe (maybe
there are exceptions)

~~~
test1235
According to wiki:

"TK Maxx (Australia, Austria, United Kingdom, Germany, Ireland, Netherlands,
Poland)"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJX_Companies#Store_formats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJX_Companies#Store_formats)

------
vram22
In 2006 I was a consultant (dev) on a dot-com product (being done in Ruby and
Rails). The founder had plans to use Zazzle as one monetization approach, and
IIRC, Cafepress too. I think t-shirts were one of their products (at least for
Zazzle). Anyone know how those two are doing these days?

On a side but related note: It might be interesting to read any stories about
how some of the original dot-com companies are doing nowadays, those that
survived, that is - from the 1997-2001 period.

~~~
pbreit
Yes! I would like actually to know what's going with CafePress and Zazzle.

CafePress IPO'd in 2012 ("PRSS") at around $19 and has been all downhill since
to its current $1.76. CafePress started in San Mateo but is now apparently in
Kentucky.

Zazzle seems to be healthy and active and 12 years later still run by its
founders, the 3 Beaver brothers.

------
shortformblog
They're also getting beaten by price. Shirt.woot routinely sells its shirts
for $10 in some cases, and other vendors are even cheaper.

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detaro
What isn't quite clear to me from the article: are they still places around
doing the competition/selection thing, or is everyone now offering "stores" to
everyone?

EDIT: Limited production runs (maybe originally needed because of printing
tech, but also a possible marketing move) where also quite popular for a
while.

~~~
teach
[https://shirt.woot.com/](https://shirt.woot.com/) has been doing the
competition thing since 2007 -- almost as long as Threadless -- and is still
going strong.

~~~
carlivar
As an Amazon subsidiary

------
aaroninsf
Their quality is now in the toilet.

I got everyone in my family hoodies recently, and the quality of the printing
is atrocious. Obviously "printed" and flaking almost entirely off after
regular wear.

Never again. They had me as a fierce loyal proponent. Now they have an enemy
who will warn people away. :(

------
smelendez
Could the demand side have changed too?

I think I just see fewer people in these kinds of t-shirts than I did ten
years ago. Maybe they had to go after the long tail in a shrinking market.

------
on_and_off
Funny, I bought a dozen of tshirts on threadless 3 or 4 years ago.

They were pretty nice for the time.

They don't last that long though, and coupled with a desire to dress a bit
better, I know try to buy better quality shirts .. and it is not the same
price range at all !

Most of the good quality tshirts start at 40€, way more than a threadless
shirt

------
vwcx
No mention of SkinnyCorp LLC. I always admired them for walking away from the
design race when they discovered t-shirts to be more profitable.

------
tzury
I was a subscriber of Threadless for 2 years in a row. Every month, a new
shirt landed in my mailbox.

It was a nice monthly surprise. A cool design for the most part, though,
fabric quality varied from one shirt to another. Some of the shirt's fabric
was so thin, it did not hold much after few washes.

At some point, I canceled it.

You want to surprise me, no problem, I'll join the game, just make sure you
play it fair.

------
reiichiroh
I've bought neat limited-run tees from
[https://www.riptapparel.com/](https://www.riptapparel.com/) before. Haven't
been back to Threadless in some time.

------
config_yml
I used to order new T’s from Threadless every other month back in 2010, but
since then I have developed a different style, or maybe I just adopted the
mainstream, which has more simple and plain colors and maybe nicer materials.

------
dpflan
On the theme of t-shirt companies: Does anyone know how Teespring is doing?

~~~
brentm
See [https://www.wsj.com/articles/struggling-teespring-takes-
valu...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/struggling-teespring-takes-valuation-
haircut-in-drastic-recapitalization-1497922483)

~~~
dpflan
Wow. Thanks, @brentm. Paywalled for now so I'll find a work around and read
this later. That is a drastic valuation drop. From what I remember, they were
already quite profitable before taking on funding.

------
poof_he_is_gone
I am curious if they are going to align the Bucketfeet custom shoe patterns
into an on demand service similar to their their t-shirt business.

------
perseusprime11
Is there a good company to order printed t shirts?

~~~
mhb
I have had good results on several recent orders using CustomInk.

You may also want to look locally. I came across a place that is local to me
whose prices are competitive with CustomInk and it's nice to support the local
business. Also no shipping. I'm sure they also do remote orders, so you can
check them out too:
[http://eastcoastembroidery.com/](http://eastcoastembroidery.com/)

~~~
perseusprime11
Thanks. I am looking for a company that can makes custom t shirts with company
logos and stuff without compromising on the quality of fabrics

------
yeukhon
I am into print screening. It’s fun to print your own design on a t-shirt or
even on a plastic bag. My friend printed text signs on plastic bags for a
presentation on environment Pollution.

------
Overtonwindow
TeeFury is still going strong.

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vblord
I thought tshirt hell was the internet's favorite tshirt company?!?!

