
France bans unlimited sugary drink refills - malloci
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38767941
======
digitalengineer
I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely
massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to
finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying
attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink?

~~~
rhapsodic
_> I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a
absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally
managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't
paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink?_

Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking
part of the beverage a restaurant serves you?

Saying that you "finally managed to finish it" implies that you were putting
effort into drinking the entire glass despite not wanting to. And being put
out by the fact that the waiter refilled it implies that you felt obligated to
drink the refill as well.

~~~
stinos
For me, and probably many Europeans: yes, that is how we are raised. It's not
su much of being taboo, more like a sense that it makes no sense to waste
anything (not just food/water) and is bad for the planet in general. (well,
there _is_ truth in that). My parents even had a picture of a bunch of
underfed kids from Ethiopia (or so) on the wall in the kitchen. If we didn't
eat our plate, they'd point to it and say something like 'You see that? They
would go nuts for that bit of food that is still on your plate. Eat it.'
Thinking of it now I can see that might not be regarded as best practices in
education, but they meant it well.

~~~
aembleton
My parents had the same attitude and I'm from the UK. My Dad passed away at a
younger age than his father from obesity related conditions and it was then
that I realised that my parents generation (born in the 50s) were the first in
history to have access to unlimited food.

Their own parents had instilled in them this view that you must finish your
plate. They had experience of rationing. My parents continued this attitude
probably because this just seemed like the thing to do but really this sort of
thing seems like a bad thing when many of us are overweight.

~~~
DrScump

      Their own parents had instilled in them this view that you must finish your plate. They had experience of rationing. 
    

In the wake of WW2 clear into the 1950s, there were food shortages in Europe,
with hunger and malnutrition. Even Americans were guilted into not wasting
food. For example, Allan Sherman (an overweight Jewish American comedian, sort
of a Weird Al Yankovic of his era) said in a song monologue:

 _' My parents would say, "clean your plate; children are starving in Europe!"

So, I would clean the plate.

Four, five, six times a day.'_

~~~
aembleton
True, my Dad born in 1952 had a ration book for the first couple of years of
his life.

He didn't remember that but for his parents it would all feel too recent.

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Jdam
Is it just me who's thinking that individuals in modern societies are not
capable anymore of making meaningful decisions, including how much to drink?
We're sacrificing freedom here because we became incapable. That scares me.

~~~
jMyles
Is there evidence that lack of capability is the culprit? Is it possible that
people are perfectly capable, but make informed unhealthy choices because it's
what they want to do?

I can't stand even 8oz of sugary soda, but I also can't imagine judging or
restraining someone (let alone with the violence of the state) who wants to.

~~~
tnzn
You're asking for evidence of cognitive biases ? There's a WHOLE discipline
that documented it in several thousands of articles. If you still believe
humans are perfectly free of their choices, I have bad news for you : they are
not.

Also, sugar is addictive.

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philipodonnell
If I'm Coca-Cola or Pepsi or run a large restaurant chain in the US, I'm
pushing this ban everywhere.

Restaurants price soda to include the cost of people who get the free refills
and the margins are high because of it.

If the government suddenly banned free refills, restaurants won't lower prices
because it will hurt top-line revenue and buying decisions aren't made on the
price of soda with your meal. Consumption goes down but prices are stable
means profits are higher, so Coke and Pepsi can raise their prices to
restaurants, say both sides capture half that new margin.

Soda makers win, restaurants win, consumers win because consuming less sugar
assuming they don't pay for a refill, taxpayers win by lower burden on
healthcare. Sounds great.

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claydiffrient
When I was living in France and Switzerland free refills were basically
unheard of. About the only place that I ever found that had free refills was
IKEA.

~~~
tnzn
Mostly just KFC and Subway have been doing that, and it only started like 10
years ago at most, this may be why.

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Tade0
Why do they mention only the country with the _second_ lowest obesity rate?

~~~
chmod775
Probably because some insignificant (read: small) country has the lowest rate.
It's easier to make comparisons when the population size is in the same order
of magnitude.

~~~
rrauenza
I wonder what the relative smoking rates are...

[http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2005-08-28/news/SMOKING_...](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2005-08-28/news/SMOKING_1_smoking-
obese-human-behavior)

Some researchers have hypothesized that America's obesity rate is somewhat
correlated with dropping smoking rates.

~~~
tom_mellior
According to
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita)
France is relatively low on the list among EU countries.

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thecopy
What stops them from offer 100 refills?

~~~
andrenth
In a Brazilian state a law was passed that forbids restaurants to put salt
shakers on their tables, as obviously a people shouldn't be able to decide how
much salt they want on their food.

The law specifically mentions putting salt shakers _on_ the tables, though.
This was the response: [https://is.gd/oiQUop](https://is.gd/oiQUop)

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exabrial
The replies to the topic where people fantasize about running other people's
lives for them really makes my heart ache :(

~~~
gdulli
That could be early-onset diabetic heart disease.

~~~
exabrial
Good point haha

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mercurial
French (expat) here, can't remember ever seeing any when I lived in France.
Have I always been at the wrong restaurants?

~~~
user5994461
The only one chain doing unlimited drinks in France is KFC.

~~~
tom_mellior
Someone else mentioned Quick, I can't confirm from memory. I've had free
refills at Pizza Hut in France, though.

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sakopov
The irony of the situation is that they can't simply ration or ban these
products because we live in the era of consumerism and the market would rather
slowly kill you and make money off of you than ban something that is a health
concern. So this is a double standard to keep French pencil pushers employed
and French people thinking that their government is doing something positive.

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TazeTSchnitzel
Does it affect drinks containing sugar exclusively, or does this also affect
sugar-free soft drinks?

~~~
ArmandGrillet
"Interdiction de la mise à disposition de boissons à volonté, gratuites ou
pour un prix forfaitaire, avec ajout de sucres ou d'édulcorants de synthèse" :
it affects drinks with added sugar and/or synthetic sweeteners (e.g. Coca Cola
Zero).

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Oh, it's nonsense then. Artificially sweetened drinks don't create obesity.

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emptyfile
I guess this is more of a principle kind of thing since free refills are
almost unheard of in Europe, even in American fast food franchises.

In general soft drinks are incredibly overpriced in Europe since people drink
so little of them.

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RichardHeart
There are no bad foods, only bad diets. Why pick on sugary drinks, but leave
ice cream shops alone. Why not put a hazard tax on buffet restaurants. Imagine
the government decides they don't like the way you live your life, so they
make laws to screw you and people like you. Laws are the worst way to attempt
to improve human dietary behavior.

You could advertise fitness, create tastier low calorie beverages, even
advertise drinking a full glass of water before eating. Positive fitness
outcomes can be found using non punitive means.

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eecks
How does this effect sugar free drinks like Diet Coke and Coke Zero?

~~~
mlok
Drinks with "added sugar substitutes" are banned as well. (From the link to
the law text)
[https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFT...](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000033922943&dateTexte=&categorieLien=id)

~~~
DanBC
Sugar substitutes tends to mean things like HFCS, Agave syrup, honey, etc:
things that are sugar but not always called sugar on the label.

Is that the case here, or is France really banning the artificial sweeteners
too?

~~~
tom_mellior
Yes, drinks with artificial sweeteners are also affected by the ban on
refills. No, France is not "banning artificial sweeteners".

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mrfusion
It seems like a Soda tax would be a less heavy handed approach. If you make
the price high enough restaurants will stop offering refills all on their own.

~~~
joezydeco
Chicago is working on adopting such a tax, but for the moment only on
bottled/prepackaged drinks.

[http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/11/10/cook-county-
approv...](http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/11/10/cook-county-approves-
soda-tax)

They're trying to offset the increased cost of diabetes and other health
issues linked to high-calorie drinks. It's meeting heavy resistance from
lobbying groups at the moment.

But

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thiht
Relevant Parks and Rec.
[http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oq3zt](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oq3zt)

In the show, citizens are pissed because Leslie, the politician lady, decides
to tax oversized sodas.

Maybe people don't deserve the "liberty" to drink gallons of sugar. And maybe
companies don't deserve to offer it to people.

------
amelius
The comparison has been made between sugary drinks and social media. Are they
next?

------
systems
well, they can make it up to 10 ... few really drink more than 3

silly rule

~~~
XaspR8d
10 refills? Yeah even here in the states among the heaviest of soda drinkers
that seems like a useless limit...

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canadian_voter
I'd rather live in a country that provides comprehensive free health care and
limits soda consumption, than one that allows me the "freedom" to consume as
much sugar as possible and makes me pay for the consequences.

I must be a radical hippie leftist: I think we should tax the sh-t out of
refined sugar and subsidize organic vegetable farms.

~~~
zeroer
I suppose I have to agree with you. You apparently want a nanny state and to
tax me to pay for it.

~~~
oblio
> You apparently want a nanny state and to tax me to pay for it.

What's it with Americans and these expressions. I've heard "nanny state" used
0 times by non-Americans (non-Americans use it only when quoting Americans).

Also, you're making it sound like you're _the only one_ being taxed. He will
also be taxed.

~~~
zeroer
I suppose it's an American phrase. Given the way the rest of the world is
going it may be an American value, too, though the US itself is moving away
from that idea, too.

I'm not going to rehash old arguments about the virtues of fiscal
conservatism. Suffice to say, I'm happy if people want to redistribute wealth
and intrude on the lives of fellow citizens. I just wish it didn't involve me.

I am not the only one being taxed. But if my income is 5 times the median
income, then I'm paying 20X the median taxes. No fun!

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jamesmp98
This is a human rights violation.

~~~
adorable
You are free to buy as much soda as you want.

~~~
paulddraper
And restaurants can offer as many free refills as they want, as long as the
limit is less than infinity.

More of a violation against intelligence than against human rights.

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andrewclunn
Free refills? How dare you! That stomach doesn't belong to the consumer, it's
merely being rented from the state!

~~~
krastanov
You are making an argument based on taking this to an extreme. But take it to
the other extreme: is it governmental overreach that heroin is banned or is it
a good public health policy?

The merits of this new French law can be argued, but it is not an obvious
overreach.

~~~
chimeracoder
> But take it to the other extreme: is it governmental overreach that heroin
> is banned or is it a good public health policy?

Given that the most effective treatment for heroin addiction is
diacetylmorphine maintenance (aka, prescription-strength heroin)[0], I'd say
it's definitely governmental overreach.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-
assisted_treatment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment)

