

‘Don’t Be Evil,’ Meet ‘Spy on Everyone’: How the NSA Deal Could Kill Google - brg
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/02/from-dont-be-evil-to-spy-on-everyone/

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stanleydrew
"The telegram companies and the old-school telcos were virtually monopolies;
customers had nowhere to turn, if they wanted private communications. Bing and
Yahoo Mail are just a click away."

The idea that bing and yahoo mail aren't consuming your personal data in order
to show you more ads, or wouldn't cooperate with the government if asked, I
find to be laughable.

~~~
thaumaturgy
True. On the other hand, with things like i2p, encrypted connections between
private servers, and the ubiquity of cheap hosting services, individuals do
have the option of easily establishing their own secure communication
channels.

I doubt it will erode Google's market share or traffic much (or at all), but
only because the average computer user is neither informed nor interested in
privacy and security.

But it's still not a good idea to over-centralize the internet in principle.
My own Google usage has fallen off a lot lately just for the sake of not
relying on a single service for too much.

~~~
jamesbritt
"I doubt it will erode Google's market share or traffic much (or at all), but
only because the average computer user is neither informed nor interested in
privacy and security."

AT&T's behavior seems to have had no effect on iPhone enthusiasm. When I've
asked people about having to use AT&T to use their iPhone, it seems a total
non-issue. They simply don't care if a company was engaged in illegal spying,
they want what they want.

It reminded me of when there was much more railing against software patent,
and Amazon grabbed on for one-click shopping. There was some noise, but
Amazon's cheaper prices soon won the day.

The Dead Kennedy's had it right: Give me convenience or give me death.

------
mpk
Google is a massive company. By some reports 10% of 'internet traffic' flows
over its private links. It has an army of smart engineers who know internet
technology inside out and develop new systems at various layers on a regular
basis.

Why do they need the NSA to help them against attacks, exactly?

~~~
coderdude
You may be underestimating the NSA's resources.

~~~
smallblacksun
Agreed. The NSA employs the most Math PHDs of any organization in the world,
as well as a lot of CS PHDs. They also have a huge budget and some of the most
powerful computer clusters in the world. Further, they almost certainly know
more about China's cyber-warfare capabilities than anyone outside the Chinese
government.

~~~
pwhelan
Let's not forget that this is also the NSA's area of expertise. Making awesome
search engines and ad services are very different practices than conducting
cyber warfare. Not only that, they have access all the most important players
in a way that no company ever could.

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brg
I think the main take-away is that this will be a PR hit to Google, especially
internationally.

No matter how strong the firewall Google puts up between surveillance and
intrusion diagnostics, there will be people questioning it.

------
sinzone
When you are a public company there is just one thing that count: REVENUE
REVENUE REVENUE!

You can say whatever to your community... But if you are public you need to
increase your revenue and enter in every market that can satisfy this need for
the investors. "Don't be evil" and things like that are BS, if you are not
evil into the markets, someone will take yours.

~~~
Estragon
The TL;DR version of Google's IPO terms were "Investors can be our bitches and
like it." They are not nearly as much under the gun as most public companies
in this respect.

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andreyf
While the rest of the article is certainly true, the Russian press talks about
a lot crazy things, like the "scandal" mysterious suicide of the woman who
filed a rape lawsuit agains Bush:
<http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/368/11257_scandal.html>

And the Iraq war is over:
[http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/29-01-2010/111925-wa...](http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/29-01-2010/111925-war_iraq-0)

~~~
rgrieselhuber
On the Iraq war being over, I would have doubted it before yesterday when I
started reading George Friedman's new book, The Next 100 Years. He would be
the first to say that his predictions at a granular level are often wrong but
that his methodology is a decent way of understanding how the world works and
what might happen next.

Anyway, he states that the current war in Iraq (and perhaps Afghanistan)
(against the "Islamist Jihadists" as he calls them, revealing more about his
politics than is necessary) is not going to be a priority for the next 10-20
years. The primary purpose was to destabilize the region, not win the "war on
terror", which certainly seems to have worked.

The next conflict, as he sees it, will be with Russia as it once again tries
to gain greater access to the Atlantic, becoming another global power with
access to both oceans.

I'm not well-informed enough to do more than repeat what I've read so far, but
it is a thought-provoking thesis. And recommended reading.

------
brianobush
Anyone that has an upper hand in a market is going to draw the govt's
interest, but it is a two-way avenue, since I am sure that google would
benefit from such a relationship.

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justinph
This has made me re-think having google host all my email.

Also, I just logged into HN with my google account.

------
apower
Suddenly Google's action in China and Hillary's speech to the Chinese all make
sense.

------
aresant
This isn't a Google problem, this is a gov't problem.

~~~
trobertson
This is an internet problem. Which government should be dealing with this?

------
fnid2
This is why I avoid Google products and block google domains in my HOSTS file.

~~~
mpk
I really doubt you have blocked all Google domains. They own tens of
thousands, probably much more.

Also, Google provides public services by hosting assets such as Javascript
libraries - are you blocking those as well?

If you don't want Google to track you you should just not visit Google
domains, block Google analytics (and other trackers) and inspect your cookie
cache every now and again to see what's leaking. That should suffice for a
non-obsessive level of Google paranoia.

