

Uncle Bob Responds to DHH, Defines Professionalism - luigi
http://blog.objectmentor.com/articles/2009/05/11/why-the-sea-is-boiling-hot

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mrbgty
"Professionalism does not mean rigid formalism. Professionalism does not mean
adhering to beaurocrasy. Professionalism is honor. Professionalism is being
honest with yourself and disciplined in the way you work. Professionalism is
not letting fear take over."

That may be his definition but from my experience, when I hear people talking
about professionalism, they're usually either using it as a way to complain
about someone else or to boost their own ego. I haven't known many people to
think of professionalism as defined above. Seems like more often than not, its
used as leverage to argue for exactly what he says it does not mean.

~~~
gaius
Professionalism means doing the right thing even if it's personally
unpleasant. A vet putting a sick kitten to sleep for example. Or a salesman
who tries to sell the product the customer actually needs, not just what has
the biggest margin.

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_pius
Great comment from Avdi Grimm:

 _Something that DHH still doesn’t seem to grok is that some of the most
prominent artists and rock stars in this world are deeply professional people.
The members of U2, for instance, are professional musicians in every sense of
the word. That doesn’t make them any less artists._

~~~
tptacek
It doesn't surprise me that the members of U2 might be "deeply professional".
They're a multi-billion dollar media enterprise. For the same reason, it
doesn't surprise me that Neko Case once jumped off the stage and punched out a
heckler. She made $340,000 of the album before her last, and plowed $300,000
of it back into the band. Of course, she's an artist, not a multi-billion
dollar media enterprise.

~~~
_pius
100% agree, as artists who make money aren't artists anymore. To be a Real™
artist, you have to be so passionate about what you do that you don't make
money from your work. The more unprofessional you are, the more of an artist
you become.

/sarcasm

~~~
tptacek
Your point is taken. Making a billion dollars would not have made Elliot Smith
less of an artist. But U2 is still a really bad example.

~~~
_pius
I hear you. Actually, if I can hijack this thread with something tangential,
can you tell me why U2 gets no respect? You're not the first person I've heard
to have a low opinion of them. I only know their singles, so I really have no
idea why a lot of people look down on them as some sort of sell-out band.

~~~
tptacek
I still listen to War, Joshua Tree, and Achtung Baby.

I respect, but do not love, the artistic decisions they made with Zooropa and
Pop.

Since Pop, they've reverted to a cookie-cutter mega stadium act. Their albums
contribute nothing that they themselves haven't already contributed. Their
theme material is superficial, rehashed, or sometimes nonexistent.

Meanwhile, they continue playing shows with $250 top ticket prices under 360
deals with Live Nation, the Gordon Gekko's of the entertainment industry.

I don't think U2 is evil. I just don't think they're anything more authentic
or credible than, say, a Jerry Bruckheimer movie.

~~~
jamesbritt
" ... than, say, a Jerry Bruckheimer movie."

Man, that's cold.

~~~
tptacek
It's cold because I'm right.

------
spooneybarger
The concept of "I should have run it by my wife when I equated estrogen and
insipid" is pretty stunning. Shouldn't everyone know that might offend people?

~~~
mahmud
Just shows that someone who needs to run his opinions by his wife for approval
might sometimes need little time off to be a Macho Man(TM) on the internet.

------
zupatol
When I am programming I need a sense of aesthetic to choose among all the
possibilities. I strive for clarity and expressiveness just as any other
writer. When discussing a design with other programmers, I know that ugliness
is always a strong argument.

It's no surprise Richard Gabriel proposes a bachelor of fine arts in software:
<http://www.dreamsongs.com/MFASoftware.html>

I don't like the word professional. When I mention I make comics, those who
ask if I am professional really just want to know if I make any money. But
just like I program, I make comics with great patience and attention to
detail, and to get through the painful parts I need the kind of discipline and
seriousness you could call professionalism.

------
Kadin
s/beaurocrasy/bureaucracy/g

I know it's nitpicky but it struck me as a really odd oversight in an
otherwise very strong piece of writing.

------
ezy
Can we just conclude that the Ruby/Rails/Whatever community is just a big
loose and move on? I mean, really guys...

I have no direct connection to Ruby (thank god). But the lead/prominent people
seem super immature and mostly unskilled, and half of every programming news
aggregator on earth is filled with ruby/rails-drama every 3 days. Just...
"ugh"...

Can we all just use python or lisp and give up on these guys already? Ruby
really isn't that great, frankly (reminds me of the worst, not the best, parts
of perl, smalltalk and lisp combined).

Maybe I'm being too judgemental anout the language -- but at least invent a
new Ruby-derivative called "Muby" :-), and put people in charge who (a) know
how to write code and (b) are not drama-seeking children.

~~~
pavelludiq
From the little ruby i know i find it a very nice language, but i too am sick
of all the drama. Thats why i mostly try to ignore it. I would love to see
more articles about cool ruby hacks, but i get useless rhetoric instead.

~~~
gaius
Yeah it's like there's no RMS, no Linus, no Alan Cox, everyone in the Ruby
world is ESR.

