

Always Innovating HDMI dongle brings Android to your 'dumb TV' - bane
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/07/always-innovating-hdmi-dongle-android-tv-video/

======
JangoSteve
If I'm understanding this correctly, this is basically a wifi-only Android
tablet with a simplified UI, a remote instead of a touchscreen and keyboard,
and an HDMI output instead of a built-in screen. For $79. Wow, that's awesome.

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cjoh
A few thoughts...

I rolled my eyes when I first saw it. Another silly gadget when my Roku does
just fine. At some point it just becomes too stupidly small, right?

Then I watched the video where he plugs it into the hotel TV and it all made
sense. As someone who probably rents overpriced hotel movies about 4 times a
year, this device may pay for itself relatively quickly.

Built-in Bluetooth you say? I wonder if I can pair a keyboard to it...

Also -- come to think of it, Google's best marketing strategy for GoogleTV
might be to get widespread hotel adoption for it. It'd be a huge convenience
for me to be able to, when I get to a hotel, simply auth myself into GoogleTV
and have my whole experience personalized.

~~~
nantes
I think that is a really interesting idea. However, in my previous position I
worked to help get a local chain hotel some bandwidth beyond their dedicated
T1 connection.

That's right, they had more than 50 rooms plus the hotels staff all using a
1.544mbps connection. They were ecstatic that we were talking about bringing
in 20mbps via fixed wireless. However, there was tons and tons of red-tape
with their corporate IT department.

Moral of the story: the infrastructure is so uneven that using GoogleTV in
hotels will be really hit and miss. Unless, they do it in Kansas City with
Google Fiber ...

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agumonkey
Funny the coming of consumer ~~key-sized~~ product, roku, rasperry pi.
Embedded is becoming mainstream, and `usbkey` a term for lambda user price
level, ease of use.

Slightly off, they made this few months ago : the smartbook
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWbCF1ulBPY&feature=mfu_i...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWbCF1ulBPY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

So much plugability it makes you laugh. I'd suggest `frankentab` to replace
`smartbook`.

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brador
Make one end a 16GB USB and the other a HDMI, put some CPU in the middle so I
can play 1080p videos from the USB straight to TV and I'll buy it in a flash.

~~~
dspillett
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi> (when available, though that
dongle's site doesn't list it as actually available anywhere yet either) plus
an SD card (or USB stick) might be something like what you are looking for.

It isn't going to be as small and neat, as far as I can tell the standard
models won't even be coming with a case, but they are capable of 1080p h264
playback at 30fps. I'm planning to grab a couple to play with when they are
generally available.

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nl
Probably worth noting that if you don't care about the dongle form factor, you
can buy (shipping) Android set-top-boxes now, for the same price as this
device[1].

These devices _aren't_ Google TV devices - they run Android 2.x (although I'd
expect Android 4.0 on them soon), and they don't have the custom Google TV
skin. None-the-less, they are good value if you know what you want.

[1] <http://s.dealextreme.com/search/Android+PMP>

~~~
angusgr
_they are good value if you know what you want_

I bought two of these[1] for hacking on[2] and, in my experience and opinion,
the ones I got are appalling value for most people.

The remote control works like a combination of a mouse (wiimote style against
IR LEDs in the unit) and keyboard (the buttons.) So you're using a remote
control to emulate a mouse and keyboard to interact with an interface designed
primarily for a touch screen.

In the Android launcher, I found you have to first use the remote buttons to
highlight a launcher icon, then use the "mouse" wiimote thingy to -also- hover
the cursor over it, and then press and hold the OK button (not tap it) in
order to launch an app.

The devices work reasonably well with a proper wireless keyboard and mouse.
But in that case why not just buy a tablet with HDMI out for similar or less
money? Or dust off an old PC?

Add that to apparently patchy video decoding support, and my verdict is:
"really, don't bother".

If/when the promised open source GoogleTV support drops as part of ICS AOSP,
things might change. Then they'll actually have a TV-oriented interface not a
kludge.

[1] FV-1, S5PV210 based, the first result of the search link.

[2] I bought them to port GNU/Linux w/ X11, with a goal of porting XBMC. I'll
hold back on that rant. ;)

~~~
nl
_The remote control works like a combination of a mouse (wiimote style against
IR LEDs in the unit) and keyboard (the buttons.) So you're using a remote
control to emulate a mouse and keyboard to interact with an interface designed
primarily for a touch screen.

In the Android launcher, I found you have to first use the remote buttons to
highlight a launcher icon, then use the "mouse" wiimote thingy to -also- hover
the cursor over it, and then press and hold the OK button (not tap it) in
order to launch an app._

I'm not surprised to hear this. Good TV interfaces are as different from phone
interfaces as phone interfaces are from PC interfaces.

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6ren
Cool idea. Amazing price-point. There's android phones for $80 (including
screen and battery), so I believe it.

The future of computers is not faster but cheaper.

~~~
endianswap
Can you actually buy an Android phone for 80 dollars or is that after the
markdown for signing a service contract?

(Serious question, I mean no disrespect!)

~~~
6ren
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2892031>

Right now in Australia, that model is $59 on sale (no contract, but locked to
Virgin) [http://dicksmith.com.au/product/E6835/virgin-
huawei-u8150-an...](http://dicksmith.com.au/product/E6835/virgin-
huawei-u8150-android-trade-pre-paid-mobile-
phone&utm_source=getprice&utm_medium=cpc) But, for totally unlocked (and _not_
on sale), it's $179 [http://dicksmith.com.au/product/E6826/huawei-u8150-ideos-
and...](http://dicksmith.com.au/product/E6826/huawei-u8150-ideos-android-
trade-unlocked-mobile-phone&utm_source=getprice&utm_medium=cpc)

Also, the LG Optimus ME P350, "with a massive 140MB of storage" (!)
<http://www.woolworthsmobile.com.au/handsets/lg-optimus-me> \- that's just
from my local supermarket, it may be cheaper elsewhere. _EDIT_ manufacturer
says it's 2GB [http://www.lg.com/au/mobile-phones/all-lg-phones/LG-bar-
phon...](http://www.lg.com/au/mobile-phones/all-lg-phones/LG-bar-phones-
Optimus-Me-P350.jsp)

~~~
nl
The Huawei is available for $80 unlocked, and without contract in Australia
[1]. It's a pretty decent - if low end - phone[2].

[1]
[http://www.uniquemobiles.com.au/Items/huawei-u8150-blk?&...](http://www.uniquemobiles.com.au/Items/huawei-u8150-blk?&caSKU=huawei-u8150-blk&caTitle=Huawei%20IDEOS%20U8150%20Android%202.2%20Black%20\(Australian%20Stock\))
and
[http://www.uniquemobiles.com.au/Items/huawei-u8180-blk?sck=1...](http://www.uniquemobiles.com.au/Items/huawei-u8180-blk?sck=1616895&caSKU=huawei-u8180-blk&caTitle=Huawei%20IDEOS%20X1%20U8180%20Android%202.2%20Black%20\(Australian%20Stock\))
\- unsure what the difference is.

[2]
[http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/mobile_phones/huawei/id...](http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/mobile_phones/huawei/ideos_u8150/363402)

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Hominem
I like this a lot.

I think there could be a market for something like this that allows you to
play games off newgrounds if they could get the controller right. Or displays
a custom news feed with video and a crawl based on selected keywords.

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FiddlerClamp
I'd love to see this as an input to an HMD with some kind of keyboard/touchpad
- a great standardized base for head-mounted glasses/AR.

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eridius
Why does this include an accelerometer?

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
"RF Remote". I assume it functions like a Wii remote -- you can tip it and
shake it and such.

Wouldn't work quite as well for games that allow "real" gravity to affect
objects on the screen, but it would be awesome for, e.g., racing games where
you tip to steer. Honestly I'm not a big fan of tipping the device to steer
when the UI otherwise stays constant to the screen, so this would be an
improvement for such games.

~~~
eridius
How do you tip and shake a device that's plugged into the back of your TV?

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
"RF Remote" is short for "Radio Frequency Remote Control." So you're tipping
and shaking the remote control.

I thought the term would be clear, but apparently not. A quick search of that
term gets you to the correct results, though. [1]

"RF" is specified to let you know it's not an infrared remote, so tipping it
won't end up sending the "beam" in the wrong direction, and it will (probably)
be more reliable in general than an IR remote would be. Certainly the range
should be longer.

[1] <http://duckduckgo.com/?q=rf+remote>

~~~
eridius
I know what an rf remote is, but this is what the article says:

> The simply-titled HDMI Dongle is effectively an entire system on a chip
> dongle (and yeah, it looks a lot like Roku's Streaming Stick), boasting a
> Cortex-A9, between 256MB and 1GB of RAM, inbuilt WiFi / Bluetooth, an NFC
> module and even an accelerometer.

It explicitly states that the HDMI Dongle contains an accelerometer. It sounds
likely at this point that the article is just flat-out wrong, but that's
clearly what it states.

------
joshu
I want a subscription to this kind of stuff. This, a raspberrypi, etc.

------
jstsch
Neat! But it's in essence nothing more than an Apple TV?

~~~
drumdance
If it really does what they say, I think the metaphor flips. "This Apple TV
thingy, isn't it just an oversized HDMI Dongle?"

~~~
Samuel_Michon
AppleTV lets you choose from tens of thousands of movies and TV series to rent
or buy. It can stream any file you have in your iTunes library on your Mac and
PC, over WiFi. It can wirelessly stream from an iPad or iPhone. It can even
show an iOS game on your TV, turning your iPhone or iPad into a controller and
your TV into a game console.

I don't see how an Android dongle will allow you to do any of that.

~~~
handelaar
"I don't see how an Android dongle will allow you to do any of that."

Then you didn't watch the video _on the article_ , which showed most of
exactly that happening with this dongle and its accelerometer-enabled remote.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I did watch them, though. I was careful in writing my comment about iOS and
iTunes Store support, not about gaming and video content in general.

The dongle will definitely not run iOS games and apps, and it probably won't
play video from the iTunes Store. The doubleTwist app mentioned by another
commenter can't read iTunes FairPlay DRM. AirPlay from an iPhone or iPad would
need a third party app, and is currently limited to just audio.

~~~
CJefferson
Complaining specifically about iOS and iTunes seems unfair in the extreme.

An AppleTV won't run Android games and apps, and it won't play video and films
bought from the Android Market.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
_"An AppleTV won't run Android games and apps, and it won't play video and
films bought from the Android Market"_

Agreed, but you wouldn't want to, if you were using an AppleTV. There is less
content available in the Android Market. There are less apps and games (let
alone for big screens), most contain ads and frankly, just aren't as good as
iOS counterparts.

If the marketplaces were comparable, I wouldn't have commented in the first
place.

(NB: from what I understand, you can't buy movies from the Android Market, you
can only rent them.)

~~~
drivebyacct2
Your points seems to be that your prefer the iOS/iTunes ecosystem. I think we
get that.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
If anything, my point is that it's not down to _preference_. In specific use
cases one platform can simply _be better_ than an other.

Android is better than iOS at certain tasks. As it happens, this just isn't
one of those.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Android has torrent client and support for more video playback formats. For
me, it is far better suited as a content delivery system than something based
on iOS.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
AppleTV provides an intuitive way to choose from tens of thousands of titles,
making it easy to purchase them and to view those titles on their TV. Those
are the tasks I was referring to.

Android allows you to pirate content, run all kinds of dodgy file formats and
doesn't put much emphasis on content quality or security, that has been well
established.

I'll let you guess which way is better for consumers.

~~~
drivebyacct2
>Android allows you to pirate content, run all kinds of dodgy file formats and
doesn't put much emphasis on content quality or security, that has been well
established.

Dude, come on, this is getting embarrassing. "Dodgy" file formats? How does an
OS put "emphasis on content quality" unless you're going to tell me the 720p
from iTunes looks better than the 720p from Android Market?

No emphasis on security? At what level? and what justification do you have for
such a sweeping statement?

I don't mind that you're not a fan of Android, though I'm not sure you even
have very well articulated the reasons you dislike it so much, but my only
objection was your assertion that one is better than the other or that Android
can't be perfectly suitable as a set-top operating system. Honestly, I tire of
this. First it was Android will never take off on phones, then Android won't
work on tablets, now Android is doomed on set-top boxes...

~~~
Samuel_Michon
_"I don't mind that you're not a fan of Android, though I'm not sure you even
have very well articulated the reasons you dislike it so much"_

I don't dislike Android, I just don't think Google's version of it is
particularly well-suited for users who aren't very computer literate.

 _"my only objection was your assertion that one is better than the other or
that Android can't be perfectly suitable as a set-top operating system"_

I didn't say Android can't be perfectly suitable as a set-top operating
system, I believe it will be a great platform for set top boxes, especially
once Amazon gets involved. I said that right now, Apple has the better
platform.

 _"First it was Android will never take off on phones, then Android won't work
on tablets, now Android is doomed on set-top boxes..."_

I never said anything of the sort, feel free to browse my previous comments.
In particular, I don't believe Android is doomed on set-top boxes.

 _""Dodgy" file formats?"_

File formats of which it isn't clear whether they violate IP of others (like
Theora). Containers that are primarily used to distribute pirated content in
(like Merkava). Codecs that are installed with malware and browser toolbars
(like Real). Pretty much all legally distributed movies are in MPEG-4 and
h.264 formats, and all iDevices support those.

 _"No emphasis on security?"_

There's little quality control in the Android Market and apps can be side
loaded. That opens the door for all kinds of malware.

 _"How does an OS put "emphasis on content quality""_

The OS doesn't, but we're talking about platforms. The iTunes Store and the
App Store are curated. When you buy an iOS app, you can be assured it has no
viruses. When you buy a movie or music track in the iTunes Store, you know
what kind of file to expect -- which codec, resolution, and bitrate.

~~~
drivebyacct2
What? Seriously, _what_?

>There's little quality control in the Android Market and apps can be side
loaded. That opens the door for all kinds of malware.

Lol. I don't think you understand how Android works. You even imply "viruses"
too, which again, is very silly.

>Containers that are primarily used to distribute pirated content in (like
Merkava

What? Containers aren't protected and besides, you're (I assume) talking about
Matroska?

~~~
Samuel_Michon
Are you saying there's no malware or viruses for Android? Why then do so many
Android users use a virus scanner?

And yes, I meant the Matroska container. Because of its "MKV" abbreviation, I
often confuse it with the Hebrew word for chariot.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Because they're clueless? There are several posts by Android leads that call
out those app makers for a reason. That's like asking why do people use task
killers in Android.

