
Kazakhstan built a futuristic city to host Expo 2017, but attendance is low - okket
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/15/kazakhstan-spent-5-billion-on-a-death-star-and-it-doesnt-even-shoot-lasers/
======
Libbum
I'm heading to the Expo in August, and to be honest I didn't expect to be
inundated with crowds -- so this article is of no surprise.

With that being said; I think what Kazakhstan is doing with their foreign
policy, tourism and re-imagining their capital is commendable though. They've
just dropped tourist visa requirements this year, so many countries have
unfettered travel access now; soon they will convert (back) to the Latin
alphabet from Cyrillic to be more accessible in the global market; and Astana
looks like a real jewel. Their economy and living conditions are rising, and
for the ninth largest country in the world it's sad that basically no-one
travels there.

Whilst the "if you build it, they will come" motto hasn't necessarily happened
overnight, I think that the facilities that have been constructed for the fair
will ultimately become a solid investment over time.

~~~
Animats
_Whilst the "if you build it, they will come" motto hasn't necessarily
happened overnight, I think that the facilities that have been constructed for
the fair will ultimately become a solid investment over time._

That hasn't happened with Olympics sites.

Sarajevo: [1]

Athens: [2]

Rio: [3]

Beijing: [4]

Huge, abandoned facilities, all of them.

London is getting some site reuse.[5]

[1] [https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/haunting-pictures-of-
th...](https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/haunting-pictures-of-the-
abandoned-sarajevo-winter-olympi?utm_term=.kaXp23p1ow#.ktb6dN6nwq)

[2]
[https://www.theguardian.com/sport/gallery/2014/aug/13/abando...](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/gallery/2014/aug/13/abandoned-
athens-olympic-2004-venues-10-years-on-in-pictures)

[3]
[https://www.theguardian.com/sport/gallery/2017/feb/10/rios-o...](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/gallery/2017/feb/10/rios-
olympic-venues-six-months-on-in-pictures)

[4] [http://www.theblaze.com/news/2012/07/13/decrepit-four-
years-...](http://www.theblaze.com/news/2012/07/13/decrepit-four-years-after-
hosting-the-beijing-olympics-this-is-what-chinas-40b-investment-looks-like/)

[5]
[https://www.theguardian.com/cities/davehillblog/2015/jul/23/...](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/davehillblog/2015/jul/23/london-
olympic-legacy-three-years-on-2012-games)

~~~
homerrr
Well it didn't hurt Atlanta. It definitely revitalized a lot of areas there.

------
tuna-piano
In the article, “There’s two big ways to piss off the Kazakhs. Mention Borat,
or call the dome the Death Star.”

The title: "Kazakhstan Spent $5 Billion on a Death Star and It Doesn’t Even
Shoot Lasers"

Laughed out loud.

~~~
Markoff
Borat: Kazakhstan Spent $5 Billion on a Death Star and It Doesn’t Even Shoot
Lasers

fixed for author

------
atmosx
So first, the gov goes MiTM[1] all the way[1]. Then hosts a _futuristic tech
expo_ ? I don't know that current status is, but that doesn't make much sense.

[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10663843](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10663843)

~~~
vbezhenar
They don't MitM now and I'm not aware of any MitM attempts in the past. There
was strange page at telecom.kz, like you linked, but it wasn't implemented, at
least not yet.

~~~
Devid2014
Last info I got from peoples who lived in Kazakhstan s that you need to use
custom certificate from government to use HTTPS and such stuff.

This mean that MitM will be done for all HTTPS traffic there.

~~~
vbezhenar
Some government websites use custom-signed certificates because of some stupid
reasons, so if you want to use them, it's suggested to install those root
certificates, so browser won't complain. That's the only reason I could
imagine that someone told you about it. You don't need those root certificates
for other websites.

------
Theodores
Just like The Millennium Dome, in a country far, far away:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dome)

This did not work and there was just a huge void of content that no amount of
inspiration could 'fill'. I worked on it and did not go to see the finished
work, I was that ashamed!

Compare and contrast with something like the German IFA trade show that really
does show off the technology of the future.

Perhaps the problem is compounded when you have to make it nationalistic as is
required for a world type of Expo. The world is too global for country
pavilions to work, for instance, why would Ford Motor Co. build a stand on an
American pavilion when they have been a global company for the last century
and market themselves as local product in all of their major markets.

~~~
abritinthebay
But the Dome was great, it was exceedingly fun!

The problem it had was incompetent management and fraudulent financial
planning.

It's visitors still put it in the top 10 attractions for the year and no-one I
know who went didn't enjoy it. Just because there were fraudulent and frankly
stupid claims of how many visitors it would get (which nobody believed)
doesn't put it in this category

~~~
deanclatworthy
Agreed. There seems to be this disingenuous memory of the dome from a lot of
the population. I remember visiting as a teenager and had a fantastic time.
Like you, I've never spoken to anyone that visited who didn't enjoy it. Now it
remains an iconic London landmark and is used for events every week -
providing somewhat of a legacy.

I wish it had remained as some kind of national science museum. It would have
had a longer lasting cultural impact.

~~~
abritinthebay
I think it's because tabloids harped on that it was going to be awful for 2
years and the swirled on ANY info after the fact that could criticize it.

Obviously it was not a sensible financial investment but it was a significant
cultural touchstone (and the space is still in use as well as being iconic)

------
maxxxxx
The whole idea of a world expo seems pretty outdated these days. Nobody cares
anymore.

~~~
mac01021
When did people care and why do they care less now?

~~~
maxxxxx
In 1900 a world expo was a great way to find out about new stuff you never had
heard about. With internet and TV I don't think there are any new things to be
learned from an expo. Same for trade shows. In 1990 you saw some real
surprises. Not anymore.

~~~
wott
Indeed. And so went the media coverage. I remember Sevilla '92 was a big
thing, lots of coverage before and during it. But then... first time I heard
of Milano 2015 was when it closed, I had no idea there was a World Expo and it
was there; I think the article was about a demonstration against the expo...

------
jacquesm
What a terrible waste. Especially in Kazakhstan that money could have had some
serious positive impact if spent wisely.

~~~
Jedd
The same could be said of almost anywhere, and almost any public event that is
more for show than for benefit.

EDIT: I agree with jacquesm's sentiment ... but I feel we are too forgiving of
these kinds of wasteful spends when they're in our own backyards.

~~~
gcb0
like Olympics, f1, world cup, TED, etc etc.

it was 5bi spent for entertainment. Just like lots of other billions are
everywhere in the world.

just because it was in a country you perceive as poor and failed it shocks
you.

yeah, it probably had corruption and half that money disappeared, just like on
the rich events I listed above.

But, this is the same mentality that demonize food stamps and social programs
for the poor in your rich country that are not 100% focused on making those
poor people complacent and effective workers.

(ps: "you" used as in the undefined plural subject form. I don't know the
person I'm replying :)

~~~
Jedd
> like Olympics, f1, world cup, TED, etc etc.

It's disingenuous to claim that I lump those in the same category.

Let's focus on my 'more for show than for benefit' qualification.

> it was 5bi spent for entertainment. Just like lots of other billions are
> everywhere in the world.

Do you mean 'just like other billions everywhere else spent on entertainment'
or 'just like other billions everywhere else spent'. I'm not sure you're
accurately reflecting my views by suggesting that I think entertainment has
equal value to non-entertainment activities.

> just because it was in a country you perceive as poor and failed it shocks
> you.

Yeah, so stop right there.

I was working for the treasury department for NSW at the time that we were
gearing up for the Sydney Olympics (later re-branded the NSW Olympics (later
re-branded, as funding was sought further up the chain, as the Australian
Olympics). There's nothing imperial, us-or-them, poor-vs-rich country about
this. Take that particular card off the table.

> But, this is the same mentality that demonize food stamps and social
> programs for the poor in your rich country that are not 100% focused on
> making those poor people complacent and effective workers.

It really, really, is not.

~~~
gcb0
you kind of proved my point. I do lump all those events in the same bag and my
point was that most people fail to see it and see the ones they like as
culturally enriching and the ones they don't fancy as waste.

the only problem on the article's event was lack of public. but I bet lots of
local people wanted to go but lacked the means. just like the Olympics. but it
doesn't show much because the Olympics manages to import rich foreigners just
fine.

~~~
totalZero
How did anyone prove your point? You are just repeating yourself to claim that
there are two voices in agreement.

------
doug1001
i've followed this Expo indirectly because a professional fighter i follow
(Gennady Gennadyvich Golovkin) is from Karaganda, a small mining town in KZ.
Golovkin, aka "GGG", is regarded by many (most?) current and former
professional boxers and boxing commentators as the best fighter in the world
regardless of weight class (P4P). Several months ago, GGG's promoter (K2) said
via press release that they were in serious discussions--with an expectation
of success--to have GGG's next fight in Astana during the Expo.

the economics of fight promotions is mysterious, at least to me, but i should
think getting this fight in Astana during the World Expo would have been a
massive economic boost to offset the Expo's staggering cost

more than that though. GGG is not just a professional fighter from Kazakstan;
he's the stuff of legends: Olympic silver medalist, World Amateur Champion
(2X), amateur record of 352 wins, five losses, and a current professional
record of 37-0. For eight years--from 2008 to 2016--he won every one of his
fights by knockout. About five years ago when GGG Was just a contender, he
called out Sergio Martinez, the current champion in GGG's weight class, SM's
trainer said publicly "there's no way i'm putting Sergio in with that animal".

in an interview a couple of years ago (available on youtube), when a reporter
asked Manny Pacquiao about GGG's, Pacquiano just shook his head in disbelief.

during a fight with the British Champion, Matthew Macklin, Jim Watts, former
LW world champion and ITV commentator said "Matthew Macklin is a terrific
fighter, but there's nothing he can do, this fellow [GGG] is just on another
level which until tonight i didn't even know existed"

About a minute later, GGG hit MM with a left hand to the ribcage (GGG is a
right-handed fighter!) MM went down immediately and remained there for about
20 minutes.

needless to say, he's idolized in his home country and to have him return to
fight in KZ (for the first time since becoming a professional) _during_ the
World Expo--you couldn't write a better movie script.

and yet the deal somehow fell through on the Expo side. All of the money spent
on the Expo and none of it earmarked to underwrite this sporting event--
disappointing

~~~
Bakary
It would have been harder for corrupt officials to get a cut of that pie as
opposed to the empty stands.

------
rocky1138
I was considering visiting Kazakhstan until they announced that all Internet
users would have to accept a government self-signed certificate authority to
use the network.

~~~
vbezhenar
That's wrong, you don't need that. But some websites, notably including most
popular porn sites are banned.

~~~
Devid2014
AFAIK you require to use it by the law.

If you have other information please point to the source, it would be nice to
know it for sure.

~~~
vbezhenar
I'm from Kazakhstan and I've opened
[https://news.ycombinator.com](https://news.ycombinator.com) using
Kazaktelecom (largest internet provider) without installing any root
certificates right now. I can't answer for other operators, but mobile
operators don't MitM either.

------
GONGR
Btw, the article is blocked in Kazakhstan...

~~~
vbezhenar
I've read it just a few hours ago. Doesn't work now indeed. What a shame.

------
Markoff
TIL there is Expo in 2017, completely forgot that this is still a thing in age
of internet. Seem like even bigger nonsense than dictat...pardon Olympic games

------
kyleblarson
Great success

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gewoonkris
Since the title isn't very informative about the content of the article: it's
about the 2017 world expo which is held in Kazachstan and the steadying
decline of visitors to these events.

I hadn't even heard of the fact there currently was a world expo in Kazachstan
if it wasn't for this article. For previous expo's I at least remember them
having quite some coverage in the news.

~~~
Roritharr
Same here, I hadn't heard of it.

Currently checking pricing for a trip.

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roryisok
Awful, awful website for mobile. I was redirected three times before I reached
the article page, which itself popped and reloaded a few times before I could
read anything. Then three separate modal windows pestering me to subscribe or
log in or sign up to the newsletter stopped me because they wouldn't close.

How have we fucked up the mobile web experience so much?

~~~
the_duke
I'm getting really tired of the "website sucks on mobile" comments.

Yes, a lot of sites are not optimized for mobile devices. That doesn't mean I
want to read a rant about it on every 3rd article.

~~~
moron4hire
If people don't complain, developers won't know they need to fix their shit.
Push the pain back on bad devs.

~~~
mysterydip
That assumes the devs read here, no?

~~~
fiblye
You'd be surprised how many devs do.

And if it's not specifically the web devs for this site lurking, discouraging
others from following the same path isn't bad.

I personally got two screen-filling pop ups on this site, the second of which
was a survey before I was even able to browse. If anyone out there is
considering doing this on your site, consider that I added this site to my
growing list of filters and will never visit it again.

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ensiferum
Nice page. My mobile browser janked immediately. Even back button didn't work.

~~~
rdl
Yeah, it killed my Chrome on iOS; there was no way to click the "close ad"
button, and then it crashed my Chrome session. I restarted the browser and
went back, but probably will just skip foreignpolicy.com links in the future.

