
Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party - HHend
https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2213767-dutch-intelligence-first-to-alert-u-s-about-russian-hack-of-democratic-party.html
======
apexalpha
Apparently Dutch intel had pretty deep access into the Russian systems. Going
so far as even screenshotting people's faces as they appear on their security
cameras.

Read this article; an in depth analasys directly from source.:
[https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-
cruci...](https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-
intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/)

Seriously, everyone here will find this a fascinating read. It's almost like a
thriller.

From the article:

Using so-called command and control servers, digital command centres, the
Russians attempt to establish a connection to the malware in the Department,
in order to request and transfer information. The Americans, having been told
by the Dutch where the servers are, repeatedly and swiftly cut off access to
these servers, followed each time by another attempt by the Russians. It goes
back and forth like this for 24 hours. Afterwards, sources tell CNN that this
was 'the worst hack attack ever' on the American government. The Department
has to cut off access to the e-mail system for a whole weekend in order to
upgrade the security.

Luckily, the NSA was able to find out the means and tactics of their
attackers, deputy director of the NSA Richard Ledgett states at a discussion
forum in Aspen in March 2017. 'So we could see how they were changing their
methods. That's very useful information.' On the authority of intelligence
services, American media write that this was thanks to a 'western ally'.
Eventually, the Americans manage to dispel the Russians from the Department,
but not before Russian attackers use their access to send an e-mail to a
person in the White House.

~~~
Maarten88
I'm actually impressed by our AIVD. Being Dutch, I always assumed our
intelligence service were sheep in a world of wild animals; SAP consultants
among elite hackers.

This shows I was wrong, they seem to be actually competent and doing good
work. Maybe I'll even rethink my opinion on the dragnet surveillance law that
we will be voting on...

~~~
rollulus
A few years ago I participated in the AIVD's cyber challenge. It involved
reverse engineering an executable, spotting a flaw in the (custom) crypto
algorithm which made it brute-forcable and then finally going to some train
station where a final clue was hidden. After that, we, the people who solved
the puzzle (5 or 6 iirc) were invited to the AIVD offices for a chat with the
authors and a bit of PR and a tour through the museum (during which the big
boss offered jobs (whispering) to a few of us). I was impressed by their
skills, never expected that from government people really.

~~~
Doxin
Have you had a look at the AIVD christmas puzzle as well? You can still
download them for previous years.

It's about what you'd expect if you ask a group of cryptographers to come up
with crossword-style puzzles. It's all very challenging.

------
GVIrish
This revelation brings a lot of things into focus for me. One, is that it
finally sheds light onto that very large and disruptive attack on State Dept
back in 2014. It was assumed it was a state actor, and now we know it was
Russia.

Secondly is how important our allies are in this new era of clandestine cyber-
warfare. Who knows how much damage that attack could've done without AIVD's
assistance.

Third is that allied intelligence agencies are probably playing a significant
role in unraveling the Trump/Russia scandal. Maybe a lot of the intel won't be
declassified for some time, but I have to think that the Special Counsel has
received tips from our NATO and FVEY partners that will help them crack the
case.

~~~
jacquesm
You have no idea how much damage the Trump administration has done to
America's relations abroad.

~~~
eropple
I am reasonably sure that most Americans you'd talk you somewhere like HN are
aware.

Even if they pretend they aren't.

~~~
Balgair
The shit-house/hole fiasco alone, Jesus...

I mean, come on man. Play the chess game out just two moves. Look at East
Africa, for Christ's sake. They are being courted by the Chinese something
fierce. And Donny just gives any anti-US factions a golden goose of political
talking points. Now what are the in-power/pro-US factions supposed to do? The
hamstringing of our allies is plain stupid.

------
montrose
Notice what's at the very end. The head of Dutch intelligence says that
because Trump is president, he shares less with the US:

"AIVD director Bertholee stated that he is extra careful when it comes to
sharing intelligence with the U.S., now that Donald Trump is President."

The mere fact that Trump is president is harming US security. And the head of
Dutch intelligence is willing to say so publicly. That is pretty striking.

~~~
danieldk
I think he is implicitly saying that the problem with the Trump administration
is that they tend to 'blurt out' sensitive information.

If this is really true:

 _As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any
longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in
2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their
operation. The openness caused great anger in The Hague and Zoetermeer._

That'd quite a catastrophic/dumb mistake.

~~~
52-6F-62
There was also the instance of Trump sharing Israeli intelligence with the
Russian ambassador when they visited the White House. (in the meeting where
Trump blocked all American press, and only allowed a Russian photographer into
the room)

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-
security/trump...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-
security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-
minister-and-
ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html)

~~~
Balgair
Or (possibly) our subs in NK waters:

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-
subma...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-
submarines/trump-tells-duterte-of-two-u-s-nuclear-subs-in-korean-waters-nyt-
idUSKBN18K15Y)

------
gamesbrainiac
I just want to say, The Netherlands Second.

~~~
SEJeff
EVERYONE GETS A STROOPWAFEL!

------
nl
It's not completely surprising the Dutch were looking into Cozy Bear.

The Dutch led the investigation into the MH17 shoot-down, and Russian
misinformation groups (of which Cozy Bear was one) have been working hard on
that, too.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Now I wonder if the US, as a return favor, shared their intel on the MH17
incident too. I mean that was an actual act of physical aggression by the
Russians where citizens died - something that hasn't happened between Russia
and the US, well, ever.

~~~
gandhium
> US, as a return favor, shared their intel on the MH17 incident too.

As I can remember US told the world that it MH-17 was shot by a missile (not
Ukrainian jet, as Russia tried to imply for months) and most probably Russian
missile - and all of it almost immediately after the tragedy.

~~~
n0tme
As much as I hate Russian government, I can't believe the mh17 was shot on
purpose. It was probably a mistake. Probably some people were in power where
they should never be. Unfortunately, it looks like the next 6 years there
wouldn't be any significant change in Russian government.

~~~
nl
No one thinks the Russian government shot it down. It was the Russian backed
rebels in the Ukraine who were supplied and supported by Russia. And yes, they
somehow thought it was a fighter jet they were shooting at.

------
mi100hael
I'm curious about timelines here. This article states the Dutch notified the
US of the intrusions in the summer of 2015, but a lot of emails leaked were
from 2016. Either the 2016 emails were from a separate hack or the Russians
were inexplicably allowed to continue to operate for a full year.

------
ThomPete
so this is back in 2014? long before the election.

~~~
empath75
They started investigating the group in 2014 but the hacking continued up
through the election.

~~~
ThomPete
But if they knew it was going on it can hardly have been relevant for the
election.

~~~
moorhosj
That is a leap in logic the article does not make. How did you come to that
conclusion?

~~~
ThomPete
I am not saying the article is saying that. I am simply wondering why it's
been tied to the election then.

If the CIA and NSA were aware of this going on, unless they are outright
incompetent and Obama didn't care then they must have known all along that
they were being broken into.

~~~
52-6F-62
Obama knew and wanted to alert the public.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell informed Obama that if he did carry out
the alert that he would cry partisan politics and interference in the election
by the sitting administration.

[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-mcconnell-wanted-no-
part-...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-mcconnell-wanted-no-part-in-
bipartisan-warning-of-russian-interference/)

[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/12/why-d...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/12/why-
didnt-obama-reveal-intel-about-russias-influence-on-the-election/510242/)

~~~
ThomPete
Why would he alert the public? Why not just deal with it internally? But i can
see that this discussion is already getting toxic with the amount of downvotes
so whatevs.

~~~
52-6F-62
By that point the US was actively seeing known Russian attempts to penetrate
various electoral systems. He probably would have had to call for a delay of
the election or something equally drastic.

You can imagine the uproar that would follow.

Shortly after the election the US expelled 35 diplomats and shuttered a
Russian-owned compound.

[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/barack-
obama...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/barack-obama-
sanctions-russia-election-hack)

That, and the FBI had started an investigation into the interference (which is
often decried as a hoax or other silly terms). The CIA and NSA had been
working on it for some time, however if you read the article, the Russian
actors had already penetrated other state services and were moving moving
quickly. It was a cat and mouse game at that point.

Members of the senate signed a letter noting that they were aware of Russia's
interference and called for them to stop when the president couldn't speak
publicly about it.

I'm curious about what other acts you suggest he could have pursued.

~~~
ThomPete
The point is the tying to Trump which seems absurd now. Anyway im getting
downvoted for even suggesting this and dont want to give the people who cant
argue their case more opportunities than this.

------
exabrial
I still don't understand this analysis:
[https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-
met...](https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-metadata-
analysis/) Which points to a USB transfer.

Or I'm guessing there were multiple hacks?

~~~
the_why_of_y
This article is based on the assumption that the internet is slower than it
measurably is.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14998421](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14998421)

------
GrumpyNl
This news comes at a very peculiar time and thats why i dont trust it. Yes i
believe they are capable of the hack but the news comes at the best time for
the aivd and the best time for the Clinton camp with deep state under
research. Have to see how this develops

