
Green Bank, WV, is home to a telescope that needs electromagnetic silence - spking
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/telescopes/a29589714/town-wifi-illegal/
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ajford
Green Bank and the local town is a really cool place. It's a shame to see that
some people are giving up on the attitude that's helped protect the
telescope's ability to perform amazing science.

My undergrad work used some data from that telescope, and I've spent a few
different weeks out on site at various times.

The article mentions the use of diesel vehicles, but neglects to mention that
the presence of control electronics is making it harder and harder for the
facility to use modern diesel vehicles as the radios, ECUs, and in many newer
vehicles even the ignition system radiates vast (relatively speaking) amounts
of unwanted radio. When I was there a decade ago, they were lamenting the loss
of a couple late-60's or 70's model diesel trucks (see this short article from
autoblog with images [https://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/24/national-radio-
astronomy...](https://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/24/national-radio-astronomy-
observatory-old-diesel-trucks-read-this-report/)) that were just beyond
further repair at that point.

I was friends with some summer interns out at GBT during late 2000s, and they
mentioned how the student housing at the time didn't have computers, as it was
in direct line-of-site of the telescope and the building wasn't shielded well
enough. So they had a notepad on the fridge which was for "consulting the
oracle" the next day. If the group had a question that required
research/google, it was jotted down and they took turns looking it up the next
day and emailing the group with the collected answers.

On another tangent, I've heard from some people out that way they're starting
to run into some problems with people claiming to be "Electro-sensitive"
seeking refuge in the town, then causing hell with the local population and in
some cases even trying to blame the observatory for "transmitting". (note this
claim is all hear-say from friends who worked there or know people who worked
there)

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GuB-42
> ...and in some cases even trying to blame the observatory for "transmitting"

But doesn't it transmit?

Most radio receivers use the superheterodyne principle, where the idea is to
combine the signal from the antenna with another one that is generated by the
receiver. As a result radio receivers tend to emit signals close to the
frequency they are tuned for.

Note that I don't believe that electrosensitivity is anything but
psychological. I am just curious to know if there is at least some truth in
that statement.

~~~
ajford
Green Bank Observatory does not intentionally transmit, and any leakage would
hardly exist for long, since the whole point is to listen to extremely weak
signals.

However, a radio telescope differs from your usual radio receiver in that the
stages are often separated by vast distances. I'm unfamiliar with the exact
signal chain used in GBT, but I do have plenty of experience with a similar
scale telescope, the Arecibo Radio Observatory.

A radio telescope will go to huge lengths to reduce the system noise of the
receiving elements, including cryogenically cooling the receiver and first few
stages of amplification. These signals will then often be brought down within
a shielded enclosure (often within a shielded receiver room) and shifted into
their intermediate frequency (IF) stage with a highly pure local oscillator
(LO) signal and brought back down to the control/electronics building.

In the case of both GBT and Arecibo, that IF is brought down as modulated
light over fiber optics, meaning that there is no RFI leakage possible on the
transport. And at both, the conversion back to IF is done within a shielded
room. At GBT, if I remember correctly, that room is within the Jansky Lab,
which was designed as a shielded building.

All of this is to say that it's very unlikely that there is any signal at all
transmitting out of the telescope system in any way.

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Sil_E_Goose
I actually interviewed for a position as a software developer at the GBO
towards the end of my senior year in college. When describing the area to me,
I distinctly recall the lead developer saying, "There is urban, suburban,
rural, middle-of-nowhere and Antarctica. We are in between middle-of-nowhere
and Antarctica". He also said the nearest grocery store was an hour away by
car. Obviously the location was not for me, but they were doing some really
exciting things.

~~~
pmiller2
Seems more like exactly “middle-of-nowhere” to me. It’s not like you can only
get in or out for half the year, and even then, only by plane.

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zellyn
Heh. Everything I know about the Green Bank Telescope, I know from The
Adventure Zone podcast, which set their second major story — Amnesty — there.
If you've never tried it, I highly recommend it :-)

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kawfey
I used to work at the Very Large Array, which didn't have the same radio quiet
zone that GBT did, so we were in charge of chasing visitors' cell phones down
with a handheld spectrum analyzer and a small horn antenna. People became very
uncomfortable when they're were being approached by a person holding a
scientific instrument. [https://n0ssc.blogspot.com/2013/05/what-im-up-to-at-
vla.html](https://n0ssc.blogspot.com/2013/05/what-im-up-to-at-vla.html)

~~~
Doxin
To be fair, you could hardly build a scientific device that looks more like a
ray-gun than the thing in that picture!

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neurobashing
I go camping in that area quite frequently. It’s almost certainly in my head
but there’s something calming about it. It might just be fewer cars and planes
overhead than, say, Canaan Valley to the north.

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rootbear
A friend and I had been talking about visiting NRAO/Green Bank for some years
and in 2006 we finally decided on a weekend. When I went to look up some
information on visiting, I discovered we had unknowingly picked their 50th
anniversary weekend! It was a great trip and we got to see more than the usual
tour. The drive out was beautiful (it was in the Autumn). The Bird Telescope
is impressive.

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Merrill
United States National Radio Quiet Zone which also covers Sugar Grove.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Q...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Quiet_Zone)

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pard68
There is a section of Interstate 81 where you can't tune into any radio
stations. I believe that this installation is the reason for this "dead zone".

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sirbranedamuj
This is a really cool place to visit if you're ever passing by. We went about
1.5 hours out of our way to check it out one time and it did not disappoint.

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sizzzzlerz
The Great Courses series has course on radio astronomy hosted by Dr. Felix
Goodman, an astronomer at Green Bank. One episode provides a close look at the
telescopes located at GB including the big 400-foot dish. It's an interesting
watch if you're interested in science and astronomy and want to know more
about radio astronomy. The technology behind the telescopes is truly
fascinating.

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peter_d_sherman
Observation: The Moon (in the near future) and Mars (in the far future) --
would be great places to install radiotelescopes that require electromagnetic
silence...

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jolesf
There is also a NSA center in that area

~~~
hkchad
Sugar Grove

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INTPenis
What about the earths magnetic field? Is the telescope calibrated towards it
already or is it too weak to influence humans on earth and only capable of
influencing solar winds?

~~~
SiempreViernes
Depends on what you mean with influence, humanity has used magnetic compasses
for a fairly long time.

The magnetic field itself doesn't vary fast enough to emit radiation at the
frequencies the GBT observes at.

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CaliforniaKarl
Obligatory Tom Scott video:
[https://youtu.be/eQEGPATQe5s](https://youtu.be/eQEGPATQe5s)

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yummybear
Would mandating 5Ghz help?

~~~
SiempreViernes
No, that just means restricting people to only using one colour for despoiling
the canvas of nature.

~~~
JosephRedfern
Does it, though? The range of 5GHz networks is (fairly) significantly lower
than 2.4GHz higher frequencies are more easily attenuated by buildings (and
even air), so I'd perhaps wrongly expect it have less of an impact than
2.4GHz.

~~~
SiempreViernes
Maybe you can use it without interfering from slightly closer, but they have
_very_ sensitive receivers and loss of usable connection doesn't mean complete
loss of signal.

It might actually be worse that the signal degrades quickly because that makes
it harder to identify as artificial.

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briandear
Why does the title not match the actual title?

