
Why 80 Percent of Web Projects Are Total Bullshit: A Freelancer’s Rant - alexkehayias
http://www.betabeat.com/2011/09/19/why-80-percent-of-web-projects-are-total-bullshit-a-freelancers-rant/
======
cletus
> They’re not hackers, but they understand that programming is a craft; that
> programmers are artisans, not serfs.

Gold. Pure gold.

I've long wandered in the wilderness. I've had years of writing bullshit
business applications. I've even dabbled in investment banking (where
programmers, excluding quants, are the second lowest paid professionals at the
bank, only higher than support/IT people). I've worked on bullshit semi-
startups.

Now I work for Google where ironically... I write internal applications. This
may seem like a cruel joke but it's really not. There is so much respect for
engineering as a craft here that it occurred to me that it's not the writing
bullshit business applications that was sapping my will to live, it was the
business-types who so consistently treated engineering as an interchangeable
cost center.

I've done the freelancing thing too. Never again. The world is full of
delusional people who think they're the next Steve Jobs and that their idea,
by itself, is worth something (it's worth precisely _nothing_ ).

~~~
protomyth
I think my own thoughts on Biz's view of IT crystalized when I witnessed a
conversation between a tech and a manager about dress code. The tech had been
paged at 11:30pm about an hour after he went to bed. He couldn't fix the
problem from home (hardware failure), so he thru on jeans and a polo shirt and
drove into work. He fixed the problem and got everything ready for the
incoming medical test kits by 4am. It was an amazing piece of work and let's
just say certain types of samples really cannot be delayed. He hung around and
watched everything from his desk. His desk is in a restricted zone behind
security where no customers are ever allowed (I do believe it would be a
federal law violation). It was around 9am and all the kits were processed and
he was going to go home. A manger asked why he was not in proper work attire
(sports coats / slacks or suit). He told the whole story adding he didn't want
to wake his wife so he grabbed what he could. His boss said "well, it your
career".

~~~
potatolicious
It never ceases to amaze me how large organizations (in all industries) seem
to hyperfocus on minutiae over getting things done.

People will throw a fit about whether or not the meeting minutes were filed in
the right place, in the right format, or whether or not someone is in the
precise sanctioned work attire... but huge problems will just slide.

The modern corporation is a horrifyingly inefficient waste of time in _so_
many places.

~~~
pmorici
That used to confuse me too. I've come to the conclusion that the reason
people focus on things that don't ultimately matter is because it's easy.
Anyone can see that someone isn't wearing a suit, works odd hours, doesn't
file their TPS reports in triplicate, etc...

On the other hand big problems are hard to solve. People frequently bemoan the
glut of poorly skilled individuals who claim to have software engineering
skills. One would assume that that there could be a similar ratio of crap
people in other fields, management, for example.

In short; managers focus on these things to an extreme because they are bad at
their job and policing people's wardrobe is the fizz buzz of the management
world.

~~~
SoftwarePatent
You're describing bikeshedding

<http://bikeshed.org/>

I love finding out there is a single word for something it would take an
entire paragraph to describe.

~~~
mattdeboard
Sounds like we need a word to describe the occasion of finding a single word
for something that would otherwise take an entire paragraph to describe.

~~~
djackson
succinct

------
replicatorblog
FWIW, the "Sticker Comapany Guy" is really cool and helpful to the startup
community. He donates his products to almost any tiny technical gathering,
shares a lot of info on his business, and provides a great product and
excellent service to customers large and small. Also, his site has anywhere
from 80-150K visitors a month who pay for his products so he may know a thing
or two about running a business online
<http://siteanalytics.compete.com/stickergiant.com/>

~~~
leon_
Well, he sells stickers. He shouldn't be talking about how a technical
founder/entrepreneur doesn't need to know anything about the technical aspects
of his company/product.

If you sell stickers it maybe will work out for you. But if your company is
highly technical you should at least know a little about how your product is
made to decide if ideas are feasible or not.

~~~
ctdonath
Read "I, Pencil". <http://www.fee.org/library/books/i-pencil-2/>

------
bobbywilson0
The irony of the article is that Mr. Case doesn't want to share his identity
because he himself works for these people he is making fun of. He then goes on
to call out the Sticker Giant Guy and Kyle Bragger instead of protecting their
names too. Kyle took it in stride, asking for more feedback in the comments.

Using a pseudonym to anonymously whine about people's bullshit projects is so
cowardly. I generally agree with what he is saying but don't have much respect
for this faceless ranter. Is it so hard to say no to the people who approach
him with these bullshit projects, and move on? This isn't a new problem. There
are plenty of clients especially in Brooklyn that are willing to pay a decent
wage to work on a project that isn't completely soul crushing.

Building a good freelance client base is all about word of mouth. If you work
a gig for a low wage and they walk all over you, chances are you will get more
clients from the first client that want the same thing, to pay you a low wage
and walk all over you. If you are choosy about who you do projects for, you
will probably have a better portfolio because you didn't work on a bullshit
project, and you will land more clients like first ones you chose to work
with.

If you are choosy and still think the clients suck and the projects are
bullshit, freelance probably isn't for you.

~~~
avree
I'm confused—he links to this article in the sentence "marginalized as a Magic
player", which clearly lists his name... [http://gizmodo.com/5833787/my-brief-
okcupid-affair-with-a-wo...](http://gizmodo.com/5833787/my-brief-okcupid-
affair-with-a-world-champion-magic-the-gathering-player)

How is he trying to stay anonymous?

~~~
lurker19
Mr Case is not the famous Magic guy from the OKCupid article. Mr Case was just
trying to impress you by sayingg he is like the Magic guy. The actual Magic
guy did a AMA on Reddit is is a much more pleasant and well-adjusted fellow
than Mr Case.

It is just one poorly written line in a poorly written article.

------
bradleyland
I'll see your rant and raise you one.

I posit that there are two kinds of people: Those who are good at what they
do, and those who are not. Granted, it's far easier to find people who are
good at some tasks than others, but the list of "difficult to find" skillsets
isn't as focused in the tech industry as you might believe.

Case in point. My father has run his own lawn & landscape company for the last
15 years or so. In that time, he's discovered that it's actually really
difficult to find people who are good at that job. That job being running a
lawn mower, weed-whacker, and hedge trimmer. I'm a determined individual. I
consider myself up to any challenge, but on my best day, one of his crewmen is
worth two and a half of me in the field.

After the Florida hurricanes in 2005, I worked with my father's business for
about a week in an effort to help them catch up. Two Guatemalan men on the
crew called me "el burro", because while I wasn't much good at anything else,
I'd pick up and drag tarp after tarp full of debris back to the trailer
without question. They were half making-fun, and half serious. I ended up
gaining their respect, but I'd have received my pink slip after three days if
I were a hired hand.

I've taken the long way around to get to my point. From the businessman's
perspective, most programmers we deal with suck pretty hard too. Care to know
how many developers I've wasted time on, only to find out that they didn't
know what they were doing, or were incapable of meeting me half-way in
understanding a project?

Some will be quick to point the finger at me for having a loose spec, or
allowing scope creep, or failing to understand the technical challenges. I'll
be quick to point to the fact that I have a great network of talented,
motivated programmers who jump at the chance to work with me.

I'm not asking you to talk to bullshit entrepreneurs who can't walk the walk,
but I am asking you to set aside that chip on your shoulder until you take the
time to know the difference.

~~~
jhermsmeyer
You make some solid points. My net-net or tl;dr of it all is this:

For anyone you work with to respect you, you must show that you at least have
_tried_ to do they work you hired them to do, and done it competently.

The longer version: As a CEO of a software company it means you've at least
developed in a couple languages (even if its only php, ruby and some Obj. C)
and actually built something. As CEO you need to also be good at (or at least
had some success at) sales to be able to attract talented and well connected
sales execs. If you can do both things at an above average level, you are
irreplaceable.

Again, both dev and sales positions are crucial. It's very hard to find
someone even marginally good at both. Great salespeople and devs should be
paid and treated like the rockstars that they are. That's the easy part.

The hard part is actually being the guy who can bridge both worlds. You're not
worth the paper your business card is printed on if you can't attract talent,
raise capital, sling a little code, sell, and ultimately be the product
manager for your company/product on any given day.

It's a hard effin' job, and if done well will earn you the rockstar hires that
will make your company zoom.

~~~
tomjen3
I am not sure I buy that. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that it would
be enough for that person to respect me and the work I do.

In fact I would prefer somebody who didn't know that much about computers,
since he is properly happy enough letting me do my job with little to no
useless interference.

~~~
jhermsmeyer
Interference can be a problem, to be sure. But you can't create a successful
business without feedback of all kinds, including technical. It's just that it
has to be done thoughtfully, with respect for your talent and opinions.

You could be right, and it may well be that someone with zero technical
knowledge can lead a team to success by being completely hands off. I just
have to believe that success is more probable when the boss can sit down and
brainstorm solutions to problems with the dev team when needed.

And perhaps more importantly, I know I appreciate it when my previous bosses
understood when they were asking for something hairy, and appreciated the
level of effort and skill that went into crafting a solution.

------
praeclarum
Guys, if you don't like clients and don't like most clients' ideas, then, uh,
don't take on clients.

Programmers can:

1\. Work at Big, Co. and make a decent living.

2\. Work on your own projects and sell them directly to consumers (App Store)

3\. Take on potentially douchey clients and their ideas.

If you can't stand the thought of #3, then just don't do it!

~~~
swalkergibson
The keyword is most. There are clients, rare though they may be, that are
actually realistic about specifications and pay. Most importantly, they also
understand that if they are going to be a tech company, tech is the single
most crucial aspect of the business plan. Those are the clients you need to
find, and it is unlikely that you will find those clients on freelancer's
sites for the same reason that it is unlikely your idea would attract Sequoia
investment by submitting your business plan via their online form.

~~~
fleitz
Tech is never the single most crucial aspect of the business plan, the single
most crucial aspect of any business plan is the bottom line.

PageRank is awesome, but adsense pays the bills.

~~~
swalkergibson
For me, the bottom line is the end game. My contention is that if a client's
goal is to build a successful technology company and this client is unwilling
or unable to pay for the proper tech talent (whether in cash or equity), then
they should not be in the technology business. Regrettably, this happens
frequently, and all I am suggesting is that any developer needs to be on the
lookout for the best clients with the best projects.

~~~
fleitz
Would definitely agree with you there. The big plus to meeting the best
clients is they know others with the same mindset.

------
josscrowcroft
Can anyone say "linkbait"?

Hate to be a party pooper, but this was total garbage. We all know what's
wrong with freelancing.

No need to pick on the sticker company guy, either - I've heard he's a great
fellow.

Zero intellectual substance here.

------
0x12
They may be bullshit to you but they are not bullshit to your customers.

The free market sucks, especially when you're competing with 3rd world
countries. The only way to improve that is to make sure that the standard of
living in those countries goes up sufficiently high that everybody gets to
make a living. Give it a thousand years or so. Meanwhile enjoy your cheap
goods from China.

Guess what, building infrastructure is really boring. And to the people that
employ freelancers (like you and many others) you and your product are not the
goal but simply a means to an end. And that end may be boring as hell but it
probably makes a lot more money than freelancing writing software does.

If you want to practice software as an 'art' then you should get _really_ good
at it, rather than to be mediocre and to bitch anonymously about how terrible
your customers are.

The great thing about freelancing is that you are under no obligation to take
on a particular client. But you are under the obligation of once you do take
on a particular client to treat them with dignity and respect and to deliver
the job with a minimum of fuss, on time and within the budget. And even just
that can take some skill, even if not all of it is technical.

------
ataleb
As a business student always getting new tech related ideas it quickly became
obvious I was going to need to know some programming. I'm trying to learn some
Java right now and attempted an iOS programming class...I dropped it.

I have a new found great respect for you programmers...I am very envious of
your skills. So thank you all for creating the great software and technology
that I use everyday.

~~~
pheaduch
I'm in the same boat working on a simple web application. There are great
lessons to learn when you try the other shoe on for size. Things that I
thought were trivial become real difficult, especially when you don't plan
them from the start and you have to re-architect your entire code. However I
do find the process enjoyable and in the end it feels fulfilling to actually
create something instead of just dreaming all days about ideas.

------
Tichy
I hate that stuff like this gets upvoted. Yeah, we get it, you can code,
therefore you are superior. An artist even. If only everybody would ask your
opinion first, but people seem to have the nerve to get by without you. Boo-
Hoo...

------
mksreddy
While I agree with most points on the article, Its ridiculous to single out a
person (in this case founder of Stickers company?) who only gave a decent
positive advise to someone else.

Correctly so someone in comments of original blog pointed out the stickers guy
is not a nOOb and a successful entrepreneur.

~~~
chc
Decent advice? Is there any evidence that the guy has any experience running a
technical company? Because to me, his advice sounds vague in a dangerous way.
"Nah, you don't actually need to know anything about what your business does —
just know what's right and what's wrong for it and get people to do that for
you." If that were technically possible it would be wonderful — you could just
bumble around cluelessly and profit from it. My experience with people who
take that approach, though, leads me to doubt it.

More likely he's a sales guy and he made a product-sales business with minimal
software needs. Good for him, but you can't generalize that to "Founders
should barely know anything about technology."

~~~
skeptical
Chip Morehead?

Seriously though. I kind of gave up to discuss this. To be honest I kind of
like things the way they are, I want those who believe in the "coders think
business is only codding" to continue doing so. Why would we want to enlight
them?

------
rogerjin
IMO what the "sticker company guy" wrote is actually true. And while I agree
most web projects are bullshit, the article as a whole reeked of arrogance,
especially the part about the "sticker company guy".

------
ohboy
Every founder should have studied programming at some point, at least CS101
and CS201, at least enough to know what's possible and what's not.

I have a bootstrapped startup. I also left CS my junior year several years ago
after running out of money. I haven't touched programming since so it's easier
and less time consuming for me to hire a freelancer for a few bucks than it is
to hit the books again. Even though I'm not doing the programming I'm grateful
every day that I have that programming experience since I know if what I'm
asking is possible or not. I have friends with ideas that ask me about
programming or websites all the time and some of the things they think
programming can do is shocking, the average person is completely clueless when
it comes to how things work. Possible: "when someone signs-up on the website
send them a confirmation message with a link asking them to like us on
Facebook". Not possible: "when someone signs up send them a confirmation
message and automatically have them click Like on our Facebook fan page".

------
mcantor
From the article: " _(coders think businesses are just code)_ "

Requesting this on a t-shirt. White text, black background. Nothing else.
Maybe a cheeky clip art of a stereotypical neckbeard-sort-of-guy.

~~~
augustflanagan
I'll take one too.

~~~
shaunxcode
Will this do? <http://metanullcomic.com/> I don't have it quite in shirt
format but couldn't help but throw richard stallman into the mix.

------
michaelpinto
Best quote from the rant "vague snowball requirements, language barrier, and
low pay"

~~~
gavanwoolery
I also like:

'Every time I tell a suit about an idea of mine and they ask “what’s your
exit?” the answer is “death,” because my goal is to make software that is
useful and makes users happy and that’s all I need.'

~~~
gabrielroth
That's from the next post. Were you reading in Safari Reader? It's running the
posts together ...

~~~
gavanwoolery
Hmm, that is strange - it is posted as "page 2" of the article for me. I am
using Chrome.

~~~
gabrielroth
Oh hey no you're right, sorry.

------
rglover
While I do agree with the main point of this, the tone and delivery made it a
bit hard to read at times (not to mention that it seems to skip focus part way
through from freelance jobs to the definition of a founder). Granted, this
seems to be framed as a rant less than it is an article. Regardless, it would
have been nice to get a positive spin on these gripes (e.g. the author is
working on a ratemyclient type site or creating a means for educating clients
on good vs. bad projects).

------
akanet
I can't be the only one who got to the end and thought, "Man, 80 is a really
conservative number."

------
knodi
"Just because you do something, does not mean you're good at it." -- Count

This goes both ways.

~~~
count
I don't think I've ever been quoted on the Internets before. Thanks :)

------
dohkoxar
This hits too close to home.

------
sbochins
I agree with his points on the Tinyproj stuff. Most of the projects there
remind me of the job postings that label every fucking programming
language/framework as a requirement. And then say you need at least 3-5 years
experience with them. These were a little more focused than that, but
extremely vague.

------
dolphenstein
Most successful tech company CEO's are originally techies (Bill Gates, Mark
Zuckerberg,Eric Schmidt and I'd classify Steve Jobs as one too). This would
indicate that business skills can be acquired and ultimately it is us techies
that should be dismissive of those "business" types.

~~~
rogerjin
Until you actually acquire those skills... which is actually really hard to do
(it's harder to find a _good_ business cofounder than it is to find a good
technical cofounder), you should not be dismissive.

~~~
dolphenstein
I was referring to "business" types as referenced in the article (who treat
techies as glorified typists). I don't think either should be dismissive of
the other.

~~~
freemarketteddy
the two words to take away are "glorified typist"...LOL

------
agravier
Next up: why 80 percent of statistics found on internet are made up: a
statistician's rant.

------
rada
Freelancers Union has an excellent tool named Client Scorecard for rating
clients:

<https://be.freelancersunion.org/client-scorecard/>

It's anonymous and well-curated, if a little thin as of yet.

------
throaway39283
Fuck the business-type, and fake entrepreneurs. Just hire a sales-guy on
commission to get you good clients, and make sure he doesn't get paid until
you get your final check. Next, make sure you get 50% up-front. If the client
is shit, just walk away, and keep the money. Those idiots aren't going to do
anything useful with their website, anyway. Tell them it costs a $1000, and
get $500 up-front. Spend a day on it, and then make excuses or whatever. If
you aren't into making excuses, spend $100 an expert. If they keep
complaining, demand more money.

Those business idiots don't deserve anything. They just want bullshit excuses
when their bullshit doesn't work. Don't try to please them. it is a losing
endeavor.

------
melvinng
It's not about the code in a project, it's about how you excute it. Compare
Yahoo vs Google, AOL vs Google, Facebook vs Myspace, Apple vs PC.

------
orenmazor
I can't upvote this enough. I might print it and have it posted at every
coffee shop I visit within a 10 block radius of my office.

------
bluesnowmonkey
Every line of code written by a founder as he learned to program is a line I
have to rip out when I come on board to do it right. By all means, scrounge up
a little capital and let the professionals handle it from the start.

------
schiptsov
You said web projects? That's right. In corporate world the ratio is around
90% ^_^

And everyone should be happy - without BS projects jobless ratio among
mediocre coders and ctrl-c-ctrl-v sysadmins will be much higher.)

------
georgieporgie
_So … what’s his qualification? He runs stickergiant.com, a site that sells
stickers_

Uh. That sounds like exactly the sort of superficially boring thing that turns
out to be a reliable, profit-generating engine. Like the story about the guy
who started a website selling bowling balls. Or a tax client of an ex, who was
making millions annually selling hop-up engine parts.

I thought everything else was pretty spot on, attacking this guy for his
business and for telling a non-technical guy to stay non-technical is...
weird. Do you really want some guy dicking around with the website's CSS when
he's supposed to be interviewing people and finding a marketing consultant?

~~~
andypants
I think the argument was poorly worded, but I agree with his point, which is
that his business is _stickers_ , not _software_. Hence, his advice is invalid
when applied to a software business.

If you run a physical business, the only thing you need a programmer for is
probably a website and an online ordering system. In that case, the founder
doesn't need to learn programming, as that's not his business.

But when you're a saas startup or something, software _is_ your business, and
a non-technical founder should at least try to understand some of it. Not
necessarily enough to contribute to product development, but enough to... edit
basic html? Start/restart the server? Quickly debug and figure out a small
technical problem when demoing the product to potential customers in case the
programmer isn't available?

~~~
run4yourlives
I'd argue that software is _never_ your business. People use your software to
do something. Understanding that usage is your business.

Perhaps it's semantics, but I think it bears repeating.

~~~
wnight
That might work for cookie-cutter, by-the-book managers later but it won't
work for a founder, or anyone developing anything new.

I've hired construction crews before knowing about the area, and again after
working in it myself. It's a night and day difference. And not because they
specifically lied or even stretched the truth but because they didn't tell me
what I really needed to know to make good decisions.

If all you want is "a blog" then you may be happy with what you get without
more thought but if you want anything more complex than that you're going to
need to understand significantly more about what you really want and how the
constraints are going to impact it.

------
rorrr
What I'd like to see is high budget short-term projects.

$1000 for 14 days is what, $9/hour.

~~~
kylebragger
That's my fault for not phrasing the field correctly. It really should be "We
need this in X days", and not "This is X days of constant work", which is how
most people are interpreting it.

~~~
rorrr
Even then, unless you complete this project in 10 hours, it's not worth it.
And by "complete" I mean completely done, no more back-and-forth, no more bug
fixing, a complete sign-off. I almost never see it go perfectly like that, and
that's why I'm hourly. Want me to fix the color of that button six times,
because you feel like a designer? No problem, but you're paying for it.

------
dramaticus3
I work on projects from <http://www.vworker.com/>

Some of the project descriptions are comedy.

The thing that usually bugs me the most is that the client has already decided
the platform and programming language before searching for programmers.

The next sadness is the "half finished PHP project needs finishing". So often
it's like arriving at the scene of an accident. SQL injection and XSS
everywhere. Zero factorisation. Top down everything. Terrible MySQL schema.
The list goes on.

------
reagan83
You just posted a rant about a tech related bit while splitting your piece on
to 2 pages. You sir, are a douchebag.

~~~
jmaygarden
Your vitriol is misdirected. The author emailed the rant; Betabeat split it
into two pages.

