
10 years later, ‘Star Wars Kid’ speaks out - sharkweek
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/05/09/10-years-later-the-star-wars-kid-speaks-out/
======
anateus
A lot of the conversation around this talks about the Internet. Note this from
the article:

    
    
        Raza said he lost what few friends he had in the fallout, and had to change schools. “In the common room, students climbed onto tabletops to insult me,” he told L’actualité.
    
    

All "cyberbullying" does is prevent the bullying from stopping when the kids
go home. Potential anonymity is a negligible factor as far as I can tell.

Yes, being world famous probably escalated the reach of his ridicule, but even
if it never left his school, what was essentially his whole world turned
against him. As someone else mentions in a comment there doesn't seem to be
anything we can do to prevent this sort of pack behavior. But I hope someone
does figure out a way.

~~~
alan_cx
I've seen this with some of my kids. In my day, home was a safe sanctuary. The
internet and associated hardware has penetrated the sanctity of the home, and
its no longer a safe haven from the nasty harsh out side world.

The internet has destroyed that. IMHO, it is the single worst thing the
internet has done.

I sincerely hope no one suggests that parents should exclude their kids from
the internet which allows the bullys to win and control cyber space. Worse
still, it then excludes them from the friends they might still have, and a lot
of things the victim can use to fight back, and distract them selves from the
nastiness. The internet _is_ more good than bad.

I think laws for cyber bullying should have harsher penalties than normal face
to face bullying. Face to face stuff is limited by physical proximity and
time, cyber bullying _can_ be 24/7. If bullied at school, the kid can escape
it by going home after school, and not being there at weekends. With cyber
bullying, you might not even get an evening off, let alone a week end.

~~~
prof_hobart
Only if you go on sites that have the ability to receive messages from people
(and where those people know who you are). You can choose to go to those
sites, or to go elsewhere.

At school, when the bullies are following you around the playground all day
long, you've got nowhere to hide.

Also, most cyberbullying typically leaves a papertrail behind it - you can
take the Facebook posts or whatever as evidence of what's going on. In the
physical world, that's often a lot harder to get.

~~~
smky80
The point is that the bullying goes from something fairly local (school), that
can be escaped, to spreading around the world. This particular kid could move
to Cambodia and some people there will probably recognize him.

~~~
prof_hobart
There's a big difference between cyberbullying - using the internet/mobile
phones etc to bully people - and physical bullying that's happened as a result
of being recognised from the internet (or from newspapers, TV etc).

------
sukuriant
I still don't understand what kind of mentality it takes for a person to say,
in sincerity, "Kill yourself." That's just ... wow. Do they understand what
they're saying?

~~~
dasil003
They're expressing the average 15yo worldview which is that social acceptance
is everything and embarassment by your peers is literally a fate worse than
death. It's pretty fucked up, but also I think an inevitable part of growing
up for most except for maybe a few hard-core geeks whose passions supercede
whatever social narcotics their peers subject them to.

~~~
comrade_ogilvy
Let's keep some things in mind.

Adolescence is the onset of adulthood before the capacity to function as a
real adult in the real world is reached. One of the things that adolescents
search for is some form of personal validation besides their parents and
immediate family. It is probably close enough to true that we are biologically
driven to look for this outside acceptance.

Unfortunately our society favors heavily segregating children based on age.
That results in confused & clueless teens begging for acceptance from equally
clueless people from the same wing of the same asylum.

Once in the real world a functional adult who can hold down a job finds there
are a million ways to find personal validation. Teens do not have that
opportunity; they (often) imagine that the opinion of other teenagers is the
only path to validation.

~~~
siavosh
I'd never heard of the age segregation explanation, it's very interesting
since it implies this degree of behavior isn't inevitable. Are there any
references for this claim?

~~~
scott_s
This very long NY Magazine piece meditates on that topic, "Why You Never Truly
Leave High School": <http://nymag.com/news/features/high-school-2013-1/>

I can't remember if the author states any scholarly work to support the idea,
but she talks about it at length. One thing that I think is well established
is that kids mostly being around other kids all day is a relatively modern
phenomenon. It's a long piece, but it resonated with me.

------
pkulak
> Raza, now a law-school graduate from McGill

I wonder if the person who posted the video is doing as well?

~~~
themstheones
No need to be sarcastic. McGill is widely considered to be one of Canada's
best universities. William Shatner and most of our prime ministers studied
there.

~~~
carbocation
I didn't see any sarcasm in pkulak's comment. I read it as saying, "The Star
Wars kid is doing great; I wonder if the person who meanly posted the video is
achieving anywhere near his level of success?"

 _Edit:_ Your comment should not be so heavily downvoted for the
misunderstanding.

~~~
jack-r-abbit
It is unfortunate that you can't reverse/undo a vote. I've had several time
where I clicked too soon and regretted my choice after rereading and fulling
understanding the comment (or when a follow up comment clarifies the first).

~~~
yareally
It would be nice if we could at least undo downvotes if an undo for both is
out of the question. I think everyone has accidentally clicked the wrong one
at least once and downvote is the one that does the most damage.

~~~
dredmorbius
_Especially_ when using mobile. Half the time I'm lucky to click on the right
comment / story link for HN.

------
codezero
This is weird, there was a huge outburst of people who were supportive of him
and raised money for him, yet he doesn't speak at all about that.

I remember sending money here: <http://waxy.org/2003/05/finding_the_sta/>

~~~
mseebach
It's just a teaser for the actual article, or have you read the full one?

Also: "It was “a very dark period,” he said. “No matter how hard I tried to
ignore people telling me to commit suicide, I couldn’t help but feel
worthless, like my life wasn’t worth living.”" >> $4k and an iPod.

~~~
codezero
It wasn't just the money and the iPod, at the time, there was a huge outburst
of support for him and of other people (nerds like myself) sharing their
stories, it wasn't "It Gets Better" but it was pretty big at the time. I can't
help but to think that his parents shielded him from all feedback (good and
bad) and gave him a skewed perception of the event. Don't get me wrong, it was
completely fucked up how local folks who he had to interact with on a regular
basis invaded his privacy and taunted and teased him, but it's not as if his
roommate recorded him having gay sex or as if he was raped and had the video
shared while being called a slut.

------
sramsay
I can't blame anyone for laughing at Star Wars Kid when the video first
appeared, but I have to admit that my immediate reaction when I first saw it
years ago was nothing but profound sadness.

All teenagers have insecurities, but nothing like the true outcasts (of which
I was certainly one). We spent all our time wondering not only why we couldn't
fit in, but what was wrong with us. Because there surely had to be something
deeply wrong with us. Most of us assumed, deep down, that it was somehow our
fault.

That video might as well have been produced by that kid's superego -- as if
every self-inflicted wound of self-hatred was now confirmed. People were
advising him to commit suicide, and only strength of character could have
prevented him from doing it. People have killed themselves over far lesser
shames, and I'm honestly not sure I would have survived it.

I'm glad he's creating a successful life for himself. And I'll admit it,
though I'm not proud it: I hope the fucker who posted that video ends up
pumping his gas.

------
hansy
One of the most interesting points made around this article was written in the
comments:

> So many people watch and laugh at this vids, and they are the same people
> who hear Retah's story and think bullying is terrible. We don't realize how
> hypocrtical we can all be sometimes.

~~~
nixy
I watched the video, I laughed at the video, and I think the bullying is
awful. Just watching the video and finding it amusing does not turn you into a
bully. Posting mean comments about the guy does. How many of us did that?

~~~
Zoepfli
I don't agree. He did not want anybody to see him embarrassing himself. If you
know he does not want you to see his video, but you disregard his wish and do
it anyway, how can you not call yourself a bully? You disregard his wish and
add yourself to the collective mass of people that caused him so much pain,
and you still claim the moral high-ground?

~~~
Alterlife
I hope you're kidding. I found star wars kid entertaining.

I found this quite entertaining as well: [http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/07/je...](http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/07/jeong-photobomb/ken-jeong-photobomb-01.jpg)

I found this narration of an embarassing incident entertaining as well:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nliuibEp-xo>

... and that's off the top of my head. In your world, does that make me a bad
person?

~~~
Zoepfli
You gave 2 examples of people who made the conscious decision of being in the
spotlight. Star Wars kids did not want to be in the spotlight.

There's a spectacular crash on the highway. A barrage of thousands of
onlookers makes it hard for the ambulance to reach the site. Because of that,
the crashed guy dies. Are these onlookers bad people?

Not a single one is guilty for his death. They're certainly bad as a group.
But of course you can't put 1000 people on trial for each being 0.1 percent
guilty.

The only thing you can do is hope each single one decides for himself, whether
he thinks he's bad... whether he will prioritize his interest as a curious
onlooker over a victims wishes and future life path the next time a crash
happens.

~~~
Dylan16807
Wishes don't automatically get granted. The specific act of ignoring someone's
wishes does not even remotely make you a bully.

People can cause bad results without being bad.

------
nekojima
At least there are now (as this is posted) a lot of very positive and
supportive comments on this upload of the video.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU>

------
jokoon
I'm sure people were telling him to kill himself only because they were
jealous of him. People are dying for attention, and the fact this kid got it
for being a nerd, hit them hard.

Honestly, I'm sure everybody would have wanted to do the same, imitate darth
maul or others. He was just the first to do it.

BTW I wonder how the 2 nicely done lightsaber videos were inspired by this or
not.

------
thret
I'm a little surprised he didn't embrace his celebrity, seems to me like he's
missed an opportunity that few get given. The video was funny but not
something to be ashamed of IMO.

~~~
micah63
While I do not downplay how vicious school can be and I don't envy his
situation back then, I think it definitely is an amazing opportunity to launch
out into a celebrity career. He couldn't have known that in the pre-
rebeccablack / pre-meme era, but it's a life lesson, don't get down on
yourself, rock it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Overly Attached Girlfriend
has used her celebrity status for good causes!

<http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/overly-attached-girlfriend>

------
HunterV
Has anyone else noticed a recent decline in inappropriate Youtube comments now
that they pushed for real name accounts?

~~~
chjj
Actually, no.

I see people posting horrendous stuff with their real names all the time on
youtube. I don't think anonymity is what causes these horrible comments: it's
more the fact that the internet creates a "barrier" between two people. It's
easier to say something with conviction in text than it is in person, even if
you're typing it under your real name.

~~~
stusmall
I heard road rage explained in the same way. We would never act to each other
face to face as we would in a car. The car feels like an extension of your own
home and you feel more violated when someone invades what you perceive to be
your space and we view what we are lashing out at as an object and not as
person with feelings. I can see it being the same mentality when you are
sitting at home nerdraging at your computer.

~~~
jack-r-abbit
Ya. A friend of mine was driving one time and some asshat got all bent out of
shape over something he did and started doing all sorts of douchbaggy things
while driving. So my friend decided to discreetly follow this guy. When the
guy had stopped and parked and was getting out of his car, my friend
confronted him and inquired about his problem. The guy nearly crapped himself
as he never expected to actually have to deal with someone he had just been a
dick to on the road. Classic.

Edit: I guess I need to clarify that my friend was a perfect gentleman to the
guy. Very non threatening. Not in the same road-rage way the other guy had
been on the road. The situation ended very peacefully and the other guy
apologized. This was not one of those "I'll throw your dog into traffic"
situations. I can't imagine why confronting a bully like that would be looked
down upon but I guess HN is fickle that way.

~~~
sukuriant
I imagine they were down-voting you because you chose to explain the story
that, as far as many could tell, was a bit off-topic; and was spoken in a more
'street' way, that might be perceived as trolling.

~~~
jack-r-abbit
huh... a road rage story in response to a post that talked a bit about road
rage compared to cyber-bullying and safety in anonymity, etc. It sounded on
topic in my head.

~~~
1123581321
It was on topic.

------
dimitar
I may be ignorant here - but how does exactly bullying on the Internet work? I
can understand the harm of being recognized from the Internet video, but you
don't have to reveal your identity on chat-rooms, forums, etc.

I imagine on a Facebook and the like, people might request a friendship and
then quickly use the platform for abuse and this can render it un-usable.

But outside of that - a person is under no pressure of revealing his identity
in most situations; in fact most of the internet experience is read-only and a
person can choose what to view.

Is there something I'm missing? Is it ignorant to imagine that the internet
would be a place for refuge for any social outcast, even internet celebrities?

~~~
Jackim
I think if I were in a similar situation, it would be hard not to look at
comments. Even though nothing is forcing you to read them, it's pretty
difficult to fight the temptation of seeing what other people think about you.

------
maaku
How can we prevent this from ever happening again?

~~~
InclinedPlane
Much of the problem rests with the absolutely insane way that schools work.
They encourage bullying and social isolation, they have become almost like
prisons, and provide very little benefit in actual education in exchange.

~~~
saraid216
They're microcosms of the societies they're meant to prepare us for.

And we have _plenty_ of bullying in the adult world.

~~~
InclinedPlane
No. They're nothing like the real world. Some parts are similar, but some
parts of prison are similar to the real world too.

~~~
saraid216
Prisons are microcosms, too, and the way prisoners and guards interact is
_also_ a good indicator of what we do as a society.

If you fix bullying in schools, you will help fix bullying in society in
general. If you fix bullying in society in general, you will help fix bullying
in prisons.

I had the surprising insight a few months ago that rape culture is just the
Stanford Prison Experiment writ large. It was an insight triggered by reading
some commentary about Stuebenville.

------
Macsenour
Maybe I'm in the minority, but the first time I saw it I thought it was funny
but something that I wish I had done.

It never really occurred to me that people would ridicule him for what he did.

I learned the easy way I guess, by watching what happened to him.

------
smallegan
Most of the horrible individuals who bullied this kid in person or via the web
will likely be serving his coffee and pumping his gas. I think we can all
agree it was a funny video but laughing with someone vs at them and telling
them to "kill themselves" are two entirely different things. I wish him all
the best in his future and hopefully as a lawyer he can undertake some
bullying cases.

~~~
MartinCron
Serving coffee is an honorable vocation, and should not be used as a
punishment metaphor.

~~~
hnal943
Odd that you would leave pumping gas out of your comment.

~~~
MartinCron
Pumping gas as a job is such an anachronistic concept to me that it didn't
really register.

------
colemorrison
Damn. What the hell is wrong with people? "Go kill yourself." Are you kidding
me??? I thought he had to be one of the funnest/funniest people in the world
after the video. I'd honestly thought he'd take advantage of the celebrity
status and use it to his advantage. . . . . but idiotic
bullies/kids/highschoolers will be idiotic bullies/kids/highschoolers.

~~~
brc
This is what I thought as well. I would have thought he could have leveraged
it and brought some good out of it, but that sort of thing probably didn't
occur to him or his parents at the time. It would have been very difficult to
look for the roses amongst the thorns back then.

EDIT: reading the article intro, and the fact that he is now a law school
graduate, I can't help thinking if perhaps this is step 1 in starting to
leverage his worldwide fame. A law firm specialising in prosecuting bullying
behavior in workplaces, or something similar? I hope it is the case and he
manages to leverage the laughter into real success.

------
smaili
It's amazing how much of an impact the internet can have on people's lives,
even in the days before YouTube or Facebook.

------
rplnt
> Almost a billion viewers across the planet know him as the Star Wars Kid

Yeah.. I don't think so.

------
polynomial
It's been 10 years?!

------
thoughtcriminal
I so totally admire Raza. He is a survivor and a hero. But somehow it doesn't
feel like justice has been served yet. And telling anyone to "kill themselves"
should be considered assault and a criminal offence.

Can't wait to read the article.

~~~
dclowd9901
Really surprised to hear such a scary thought as being arrested for something
you say from someone who monikers themselves "thoughtcriminal".

~~~
DasIch
Is it really that scary? There are quite a few countries in which insults,
hate speech etc. are crimes that can even get you into prison.

------
orokusaki
Time to ban the Internet?

------
ebbv
The video is hilarious. That's a fact.

He needed to have a sense of humor about himself, and it would take the sting
of the attacks away. As long as you try to fight it and hold on to the belief
that people are wrong to laugh at your hilarious video, then you're going to
lose. Because you're wrong.

 _He chose to record himself acting like a jackass and then left the video
laying around._ Yeah, a lot of dickheads acted like dickheads in response. But
that's going to happen in life. Rather than getting bent out of shape because
some random stranger told you to kill yourself, take it for what it is;
someone displacing their own self hatred on an easy target.

I was hoping this article would have him saying something like:

"On reflection, honestly, the video is hilarious. I can laugh at it now. It
was embarrassing at the time, but I am glad people got joy out of it."

Oh well. Hopefully one day he'll grow as a person and find some self respect
within himself rather than blaming others for his own lack of self esteem.

~~~
swk99
lol wow what a stupid comment.

Go kill yourself you worthless cunt.

~~~
jmcqk6
I accidentally upvoted this comment and cannot see a way to undo it.

