

Ask HN: Do software developers need agents? - tylerc230

I'm a freelance software developer and I can see value in hiring someone to handle 1)finding me gigs 2) contract and fee negotiations with companies looking for contract workers. Recruiters come close but have their clients', ie the hiring company's best interests in mind. Does such a service exist? If not why not?
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thegoleffect
Ed (<http://mycloudwatcher.com/>) has basically been doing this for a number
of years. He provides a valuable service to clients. Clients trust him.
Clients have other needs & ask him if he knows anyone who can do X (mobile,
Node.js, art, writing, etc...). He refers and vouches for freelancers (and he
has fill-in-the-blank forms for everything & everybody).

Ed is probably the closest example of this idea I've seen; recruiters don't
make as much money from freelance referrals so if they do this at all, it
would be sparing.

Cool idea though. I'd be interested to see if it works out in an explicit
fashion as OP describes.

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AjJi
I don't know about the US, but in Europe (and Morocco where I live), many
freelance use "sales engineers" (technico-commercial in French, not sure if
it's the correct translation), this person gets a commission for every gig he
lands for the freelancer.

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michaelpinto
An agent traditionally represents someone that has a unique talent -- say an
actor, director or a high profile fashion model. These are situations where
the name of the person (i.e. their brand) brings actual financial value to a
project. So for example if Tom Hanks stars in a film you produce the value of
the film just increased.

In stark contrast developers are engineers, i.e. they make something that's a
result of a specification. Now yes some developers are better than others, but
that work is "under the hood".

Now an exception to the above might be a "rock star CTO" or founder who is
really more of an architect or a product person. But at that point their
actual code is besides the point if you know what I mean. In fact the actual
code from this sort of rock star might even be below average, but that's not
why they're getting funding.

Side note: In the case of an entertainment artist who has an agent it's the
artist with the best track record that will do do well. An unknown artist with
an agent is still at the bottom.

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spullara
This isn't exactly true. Virtually every actor and actress has an agent as it
scales better than negotiating every gig independently. The big difference I
see is that the gigs are mostly very short and numerous. Very few are more
than a few days work.

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michaelpinto
But let's think about it: The actors you're talking about who have the agent
on the lowest rung are still professional actors, i.e. they do acting to earn
a living and nothing else.

However that set of actors is a small sub-set of those actors who get a role
every now and then but don't earn a full time living. So there is an entire
class of actors who get an industrial spot, do summer stock, play an extra or
do voice overs who don't have an agent.

I know this because I've hired those actors for various projects. However if
those actors had a name that you could recognize they'd have an agent.

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spullara
They are probably doing themselves a disservice in that industry then.

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michaelpinto
Not really — an agent who doesn't get you gigs still gets a cut. Having an
agent doesn't always open doors or get you more money.

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mnicole
So this thread is a few days old, but to add my experiences, I've spoken with
two "talent" agencies, one that specializes in design and another that tries
to specialize in technical people. Design is easy because it's subjective, but
even to the common eye there's a difference between good and bad and how those
relate to their client's brand. The problem with the latter is that they were
focused on past job titles because they didn't actually understand the
industries they were working with enough to be able to say "Okay well this guy
can write in X, which translates well to Y, and has a strong interest in Z."
In doing a little more research, there were a few companies that did seem to
know their stuff, but they weren't in my area. If you find one, do a little
bit more research about them as individuals and as a company to see if they
can actually help you or if you'll just land in a database full of people who
maximized buzzwords on their resumes.

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codyguy
Similar people do exist in the industry. The only problem is that they tend to
be salaried people working in a team of similar folks. However, for small
firms and indie developers, getting in touch with such people is a real
problem. We are looking out for such skills. If you have such skills or know
someone who does, ask them to get in touch.

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imcqueen
I also love this idea, but I'm not sure it would translate to anything outside
the sports/entertainment arena.

In both sports and entertainment the "agent" model works because the person
being pursued is considered highly irreplaceable (like Kobe Bryant or Angelina
Jolie). For the team, players having agents is a huge negative. But what
choice do they have? People are only willing to put up with a bad process when
they feel that they are getting something invaluable. That's why people line
up out the door and around the corner at special food spots like Georgetown
Cupcakes, or for a cheesesteak in Philadelphia.

In other words, even though I agree that some developers are so highly skilled
that they are essentially invaluable, if you walked into a company with an
agent they'd simply put your resume aside and find someone else. Programming
(especially in the eyes of the non-technical) is a highly replaceable skill.

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tylerc230
From what I understand, even unknown actors have agents to find them parts in
commercial or as extras etc. so I'm not convinced only irreplaceable people
need agents. I agreed that it is less convenient for the hiring manager
because they are dealing with someone who is skilled at negotiation but they
would be forced put up with it because the demand for skilled developers is so
high.

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imcqueen
I would guess that's more a byproduct of the irreplaceable though, right? In
an industry where the "good" actors have an agent, not having one would make
you look illegitimate. In other words, if Brad Pitt didn't have an agent it's
unlikely people would put up with Extra #12 having one.

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tylerc230
So, by that logic, having an agent as a software developer would make me look
more legitimate then everyone else :)

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codegeek
The idea of agents is usually in industries such as real estate, sports etc.
where agents help their clients by shielding them from unknowns and other
things that the clients are not very well versed in. In software dev though, I
am not sure if we need an agent in addition to what we already have which is
recruiters. True that the recruiters work for the employer's benefit more than
yours but how exactly can an agent help here ?

What you _do_ need is good connections/contacts which unfortunately only comes
with experience and meeting people on your own. If at all, I would say try
finding a mentor or someone like that.

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damian2000
Interesting idea - I think the reason they don't exist is maybe that the dev
probably wouldn't be happy about paying a finders fee to the agent? I mean
recruiters obviously have fees, but these are normally paid by the employer
and hidden from the dev (from my own limited experience the fee can be in the
10000s).

Some possible payment models - a) a percentage of the successful position. b)
an hourly rate for doing the task of job hunting. c) a percentage combined
with a one-off application fee.

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hnruss
I've been considering finding someone to do this sort of thing for me
(someday). I'd probably pay a certain percentage of the contract. Some people
I know have expressed an interest in this sort of position, primarily because
it would allow them to telecommute.

Depending on your needs, you could probably find someone to help you out.
Finding someone with a bit of legal knowledge and experience might be a good
idea. Try putting an ad up-- I bet you'd get a lot of responses.

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the_cat_kittles
I think its a cool idea, and I think it almost makes sense. In showbiz, you
sign lots of short contracts and lots of gigs, so you need someone to deal
with the hassle and be in the know, cause you have to find new stuff often.
Software is kind of like that, but not as frequent. I think it comes down to
frequency maybe- If you need to find new jobs often, an agent would be very
helpful.

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aleprok
More of a secretary for you to do the tasks you find take time from your
actual job which is programming. You can always make him/her review possible
jobs for you and do the initial contact and to manage your time usage. Though
you still would need to work the project details with the client yourself.

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pdenya
I would use this service and I've spoken recently to freelancers who'd like a
service like this. Bringing a level of stability to freelancing would probably
make more devs jump into it.

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jamesjguthrie
I would say this is a good idea. Contracted workers in IT support etc have
agencies find them work, why don't they do it for freelance devs?

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dabogy
Isn't this pretty much what a consulting firm does?

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tylerc230
Not exactly, consulting firms find the work but they also pay you a salary and
they have the final say in what projects you work on. Developers work for
consulting firms, agents work for their clients.

