
At China’s Internet Conference, a Darker Side of Tech Emerges - ihsoj
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/technology/china-world-internet-conference.html
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walrus1066
Surprised social credit isn't mentioned, it's incredibly dark and creepy
concept.

[https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/10/09/655921710/chin...](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/10/09/655921710/chinas-
social-credit-system?t=1541752054532)

~~~
newsbinator
It's very creepy indeed, although not sure how dark it is, relatively
speaking.

If you've ever lived in a developing country for long enough, often you've
thought "I wish people had some incentive to think about my safety/comfort,
not just their own". Because they don't have that incentive, and for
individuals there's no social pressure to think of "public" comfort.

Priorities are:

1\. family

2\. myself

3\. friends

4\. people who may recognize me on the street

The solution might be better education in school and through social programs,
to build in a civic-minded or public-minded consciousness.

But the shortcut seems to be, "if you're a lousy member of society, we'll curb
your social freedoms and put you on a list".

Is that creepy in the sense that it's invasive and "nanny state/big brother"?
Absolutely.

Is that dark? Well it has to be weighed against the darkness of kids growing
up in a society in which life is cheap, OSHA is an incomprehensible joke, and
"me-first" is the only driving force for the average person on the street.
That's pretty dark too.

~~~
brador
Who decides the rules you need to follow?

That is the darkness.

~~~
newsbinator
That's the philosophical/political question at the heart of this.

Although personally if whoever decides the rules is preventing people from
running me over on the sidewalk, preventing smoking in my face while I wash my
hands in the restroom, and taking businesses to task for scamming me, then...
the darkness isn't that dark.

I'd have to balance that against the over-reach of government indoctrination
and blocking access to information.

After enough times nearly being killed by an idiot on a motorbike, it's a
genuine mental balancing act.

~~~
yesforwhat
> the darkness isn't that dark.

Give it a few years. Or read a history book if you are impatient.

~~~
mc32
It depends, right? Honneker vs the Kim dictatorship in N Korea. Honecker led
to people “telling” on each other for gain (making stuff up to advance or get
rid of a rival) but it wasn’t do much gulags. North Korea was/id diffetent.
It’s there to repress and keep the status quo, nothing else. It’s very
repressive.

So, ond can be like Singapore today, another can be like Venezuela today.
Depends on the govt and whether it responds to its constituency.

~~~
brador
It’s not a competition, it’s an inevitability. You don’t want to roll dice
every 4 years when losing equals industrialised genocide.

Better to not have those systems in place.

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breakingcups
"The company has also started working with the authorities in Xinjiang, Mr.
Wang said. The goal? To have a database of the irises of all Xinjiang
residents within two years, he said."

But, what is the actual goal of that? How will that be used?

~~~
dis-sys
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Tiananmen_Square_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Tiananmen_Square_attack)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_Airlines_Flight_7554](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_Airlines_Flight_7554)

happy to see there is no more such incident in the last two years.

~~~
rospaya
Putting people in reeducation camps guarantees more incidents like this.

~~~
paraditedc
Do you have any statistics, theories or anecdotes to support your claim?

Afaik, Chinese government had a track record of achieving what they want. If
counterterrorism is one of the goals of such program, I would predict positive
results, i.e. less violence in the region.

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vezycash
This article only hints about the dark side of tech - adds nothing new.

Its main points are more about american/chinese politics than tech.

~~~
pimmen
I think it's a good piece because it highlights that tech doesn't exist in a
vacuum, and neither does ethical discussions. Engineers like to abstract
things, such as just solving the problem of recognizing people based on their
irises. But, when politics change I think you should reflect on who your
customer is.

~~~
coldtea
> _Engineers like to abstract things, such as just solving the problem of
> recognizing people based on their irises. But, when politics change I think
> you should reflect on who your customer is._

Engineers should be educated enough to know the consequences of such
technologies.

~~~
pimmen
They are, they might just be in denial over how active their own role is.

~~~
onetimemanytime
Sadly they will find a group of engineers to do this and more. Even if they
break the tech into innocent looking parts and then unite it into e finished
nightmare products.

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TazeTSchnitzel
At AWS Rekognition Event, a Darker Side of Tech Emerges

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Leary
Maybe they'll fix fake news, I'm assuming they have them too.

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ElBarto
China-bashing is getting really tiring.

There are as many companies working on these technologies in the West as in
China.

~~~
leereeves
You're right, the West is also working on the technologies discussed in the
article, like Internet monitoring and facial/gait recognition, and people are
concerned about that too. But the West doesn't have a President for life,
forced reeducation of Muslims, social credit, a Great Firewall, etc.

Technology's potential to empower tyrants is even more frightening in a
society already on the verge of tyranny.

~~~
ElBarto
This is China-bashing on the same level as during the 1950s, except that the
racist aspect cannot be explicit anymore, and you're just repeating the
official line that you've heard in the media.

~~~
leereeves
Are you claiming that the "official line" is false? China doesn't censor the
Internet, Xi Jinping isn't President for life, China isn't developing social
credit or internment camps?

Because if you're not saying that, if you don't have evidence that the
"official line" is false, then I am concerned for the future well-being of the
Chinese people. I'm not "bashing" them. I'm only "bashing" the Chinese
government.

~~~
ElBarto
I believe that the Chinese people are perfectly able to take care of
themselves and do not need others to pretend to care.

~~~
leereeves
Were murdered dissidents "perfectly able to take care of themselves"? I
believe they could have used some help.

I'm not sure how to effectively help them short of starting WW III, but
speaking against China's policies and refusing to help the Chinese government
is a start.

Call that "China bashing" if you will but in America "bashing" government is
an honored tradition.

