
Ask HN: Am I unhirable? - dev_780
I&#x27;m starting to think there must be something seriously wrong with me, or that I should just give up on this industry entirely. I&#x27;ve just gone through my fourth round of &quot;everything going great, take home project looks good, then a three sentence rejection letter saying something about &#x27;many qualified candidates&#x27; two days later&quot;.<p>Is anyone else experiencing this? I feel like I&#x27;ve never gone through this level of flakiness before. If anyone from the hiring side of things could shed light on this, that would be amazing. For reference, this is seeking a mid-level front end position in the bay area as a self taught developer with 4 years experience at various startups.
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neuroticfish
I'm really surprised that nobody has pointed out that your 4 rounds of
rejection have all been in the most competitive city in the world for software
developers. I am a software developer of average skill who lives in the
midsouth and I swear to god I can't get recruiters to leave me alone. Have you
considered expanding your search beyond the SF area? NYC, Chicago, and Atlanta
all have world class tech scenes and are not nearly as competitive as the Bay
Area. Nashville and Charlotte are rapidly evolving into tech centers as well,
with relatively low cost of living.

Giving up on the software industry because you couldn't hack it in SF is like
giving up on the NFL because you were a second round draft.

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godot
Four rounds of interviews is not that many nowadays in 2018. In the past 2
years before I landed in my current role where I'm happy with, I went through
about 8~10 rounds of on-sites like that (spread out over 2 years) before
getting an offer. I have 13 years of experience in Silicon Valley with a CS
degree at a Top 50 university (Top 10 public) and I'm not even seeking
leadership positions, just IC, and in some cases just interviewing for mid
level.

Anecdotally, trends in recruiting in tech startups have gotten strange.
Companies nowadays like to complain about shortage of talent, but interviewers
like to be super picky (I've been on that side of the fence the past couple
years, to witness the passing of perfectly fine candidates who just didn't get
A+ on the interviews by other interviewers). In 2008 I would interview for 2-3
companies and get an offer. In those days I also interviewed candidates for
the employer and ended up hiring a lot of great engineers, whose interview
performance would not be considered good by standards nowadays (but they did
end up being perfectly good devs in the company we ended up hiring them at).
Those days are mostly gone. FAANGs have popularized being extremely picky at
hiring and smaller startups picked up on this and believe it to be the right
way to hire.

It's a messed up situation.

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UI_at_80x24
Take a close look at the others in the office when you 'walk through' to the
conference room.

"Ripped jeans and Concert T's" vs "Suit & Tie" vs "other"

In my experience, the apparel of the others makes a huge difference on how you
are perceived. If this is a 'Silicon Valley Garage hacker' wannabe and you
show up wearing a full suit you will be ostracized before you open your mouth.

I've gone as far as hanging out at a bus stop near a potential employer and
watch how the staff are dressed as they leave for the day, just to get a feel
of what average is. Then make sure you dress _moderately_ better then that
average.

This could also be double-speak for "you are too old, old man!"

~~~
dev_780
>Take a close look at the others in the office when you 'walk through' to the
conference room.

If only it even got that far. I haven't landed on onsite in 4 months of
interviewing. It's absolutely maddening having left a stable lucrative job to
interview for all of these recruiters hounding me. I'm going broke from bay
area rent payments and will be homeless soon. I don't know what to do at this
point and have basically given up.

~~~
flukus
Is going back an option? I know it's hard to swallow your pride and employers
have a wide range of policies on this, but some will be glad to get a
knowledgeable long term employee back if there was no ill-will when you left.

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unhire1234
I am having the same problem. I have two decades of experience, but now I have
a large gap in my employement. Most recently I spent 7 weeks interviewing with
a company for a position I was super solid on, and then after 7 weeks, 3 in
person interviews and being told I was "in background check phase" \-- even
though we hadnt even signed a single document/filled out any paperwork I was
ghosted for two weeks and then told "we are not adding to the team at this
time"

I'm basically suicidal at this point. I have no freaking idea what to do.

I apply to many many jobs and get through multiple conversations and then
either ghosted, lied to or rejected.

I would like to know if someone can run a background check on me and tell me
what others might see?

I spoke to a friend and they said they know others who are experiencing this
as well -- and effectively I am experiencing age-ism now that I am in my 40s

~~~
wildengineer
One of my biggest fears is being aged out of software development as I am
almost 40. Over the last year I've been casually looking for a new job while
currently employed. Yes I know its not the same, but bear with me. By November
I had not yet found a new job and the culture at my current workplace had
taken a turn for the worse. I began to worry that I was getting too old for
the market. I never contemplated suicide, but I was scared. This is what I
did.

1\. Setup personally customized email alerts for all the job sites I could
find.

2\. Sent resumes out every day.

3\. I worked on myself. Nearly every day since I've solved leetcode problems,
wrote open source software, learned Kotlin, relearned the fundamentals of
functional programming, sharpened my python, bought a book on ML and wrote a
series of jupyter notebooks working through the standard ML models.

I had many interviews during this time. For some of them I was horribly
unprepared, but I used those failures to figure out what I had to know the
next time. Within the last week I've received 3 offers. Yesterday I accepted
one making great money, working from home, for a company I believe in.

Please fight the fear and keep grinding.

~~~
mars4rp
I am just wondering which other profession goes through this much grinding
just to change a company at near 40!!?

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mosalarynolife
Ah, so you make it to the "culture fit" round of the interview... It's
probably some personal issue. Make sure your hygiene is on point.

Keep applying, this industry is hot!

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sethammons
I just posted this in another thread.

I’m Not Great at Technical Interviews. How I Got Hired:
[https://sendgrid.com/blog/im-great-technical-interviews-
got-...](https://sendgrid.com/blog/im-great-technical-interviews-got-hired/)

Maybe it is a technique you could leverage. I think the guy who wrote the
article is possibly the best hire I've been a part of ever.

~~~
ShannonAlther
How many companies would this work at? Seems like more than a few might take
exception to a potential employee trying to circumvent their normal hiring
pipeline.

~~~
sethammons
Probably depends on company size, and who you get your briefcase problem to.

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protonimitate
There's way too many factors to be able to say what the common reason is (if
there is any).

You've worked for 'various startups', so obviously you're good enough to be
hired by someone. You just need to find the right job.

I'd wager that more than 50% of candidates that get rejected have it happen
for reasons completely unrelated to them. Last minute hiring plan changes, an
interviewer having a bad day, disorganization, and arbitrary HR hoops can all
be valid reasons. Also don't forget that hiring processes vary greatly company
to company, and it was way more informal/disorganized than you are imagining
in your head.

It's not very clear from your post, but are you making it to on-site
interviews? If you are passing phone screens and getting the take-home, but
not getting invited to on-sites, you could be punching above your weight a
little bit. Try applying for more junior positions and see if you are seeing
the same results. If you are making it to on-site interviews but not getting
offers, it is either your in-person technical interviewing skills, or more
likely, your personal skills.

Practicing technical interviewing skills is easy. Being 'likeable'/passing the
'culture fit' is much harder to nail down and really depends on the company /
interviewer.

Four rejections is really not that many in the grand scheme of things. Keep
applying, keep interviewing. Ask a friend or find someone online and practice
interview them. Try to see things from the other perspective, and pretend that
you really are going to give someone an offer. Hiring someone isn't as easy as
'we need someone, and this person can code'.

Also, consider expanding your search outside the bay area. I don't live or
work there, but it seems like everything tech is exaggerated there. You are
competing at the highest level there, so getting an offer will be harder than
other cities.

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amorphous
Don't fabulate stories in your head that are not useful to you. There is
nothing "wrong" with you. The reasons could be manyfold. You could try to
figure out why you didn't land a job, or, far more easy and effective, just
keep going and focus on what you want, on your strengths, on how to sell
yourself. Eventually, it'll work out.

Side note: we developers are a spoiled bunch. 4 rejections and you want to
give up on the entire industry?

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auslegung
mosalarynolife indicates it's the cultural fit part of the interview. If
that's the case, do some googling on how to improve that part of your
interview process. Another thought, is it possible they don't want to pay what
you're asking?

I'm sure you're hirable. You probably already know this but keep your head up,
don't take these rejections personally, all that stuff. If I were in your
position I'd be tempted to believe I'm an imposter, so be on the lookout for
signs of imposter syndrome.

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gesman
Companies are not looking to hire you (nothing personal) but merely to support
some existing employee immigration routine which requires hiring company to
prove there are no local, appropriately skilled candidates available.

Tons of these job offers are not really job offers but are merely necessary
immigration steps for someone who already hired.

Guaranteed rejection for all unaware off-the-street applicants regardless of
skills and experience.

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dyeje
You have 4 years experience so obviously you are hireable. Keep at it, you'll
find something eventually.

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tboyd47
That's happened to me a couple of times. Maybe you just need to look in a
different city.

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depecode
You just need to Know why you are rejects from the HR and works on that area
for the next interiew...I hope it helps...

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InGodsName
I am looking to hire for this role but i saw bay area, i don't think i can
match your expectation. Maybe if u moved somewhere else in low COL, i can help
u get remote jobs. As long as features are being implemented, no one cares
about the interviews.

