
The islands with a flourishing 'third gender' - MiriamWeiner
http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20180813-guna-yala-the-islands-where-women-make-the-rules
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Rotdhizon
Very interesting read. The thing stood out to me most is that it says the
islands didn't start getting discriminatory until they started encountering
western culture and having it rub off on them. They still aren't overly
discriminatory, but it is a minor side effect of contact with external
influences.

It is fascinating to know that there are islands where gender identify doesn't
matter. If you want to be a woman, just act like one and you will be accepted.
I figured all places in the world shunned that type of behavior as a
community, but these people had no outside influence on their behavior. To see
that type of acceptance come from a natural perspective is eye opening.

It was hard to tell how men are treated. It keeps going back and forth, one
sentence says the men are treated fairly, the next says they are bound by the
woman's decisions. Then that the men have no problems, but still have
basically all their decisions made by woman.

It is worth noting that the article mentions the hardships these people face
when going off the island to the mainland places. Sure their gender acceptance
at home is fine, but they face the typical discrimination you'd expect from
any established society.

~~~
08-15
> If you want to be a woman, just act like one and you will be accepted.

But you still aren't a woman, you are omeggid.

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solidsnack9000
_It is mostly males that become transgender women – female transitions to male
are extremely rare..._

 _From that point on, his work belongs to the woman’s family, and it’s the
woman who decides whether her husband can share his fish, coconuts or
plantains with his own parents or siblings._

Taken together, these two observations make a lot of sense. In a closed
society where women have consolidated power like that, why would anyone become
a man?

~~~
cpsempek
I agree, gender could be a red herring here. Power structures could better
explain the social behavior. However, I would like to understand the
differences, if any, between patriarchal and matriarchal societies. Anyone has
a suggestions for resources in this regard?

~~~
solidsnack9000
The "Standard Cross Cultural Sample" is a large collection of data about ~180
societies across the world. The list of variables covered, broken down into
categories, includes several related gender and division of labor:

[http://eclectic.ss.uci.edu/~drwhite/courses/stdsvars.html](http://eclectic.ss.uci.edu/~drwhite/courses/stdsvars.html)

There is a website for browsing the data. Looks a little challenging to use:

[http://socscicompute.ss.uci.edu/](http://socscicompute.ss.uci.edu/)

After describing some of the early research and theorizing about matriarchies,
the Encyclpaedia Britannica states: "The consensus among modern
anthropologists and sociologists is that while many cultures bestow power
preferentially on one sex or the other, matriarchal societies in this
original, evolutionary sense have never existed."

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Lunatic666
This article reminded me of the Buginese who have 5 different genders:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugis#Lifestyle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugis#Lifestyle).
Unfortunately they're not going into more detail, I'd like to know if they're
as equally accepted as with the people from the article.

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anewone
Thailand also has a third gender for MTF and Iran has support for MTF
operations. What's interesting to me is that FTM doesn't seem to get the same
support. Why is that?

Is it because patriarchy doesn't want to allow more into the club but is fine
with kicking people out? Is there a biological force which makes MTF more
common?

Not trying to offend anyone, I am genuinely curious.

~~~
GW150914
Iran does have a very open view of transgender rights, but there is a dark
side.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690)

They have no respect for homosexual rights, and so people are pushed to change
genders.

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seatdrummer
This article just sounds like celebration of a power imbalance. To me, reading
articles like this push me further from viewing social movements as noble
search for equality but instead a gendered focus on gaining power compared to
men.

~~~
tdb7893
Isn't trying to gain power compared to men the same thing as trying for
equality if there is a an existing power imbalance or am I confused about the
semantics here?

~~~
seatdrummer
You're right, the wording is just not accurate. I mean, something like
fighting for equal rights vs fighting for domination.

Equality is empowering but celebrating control over the other gender makes it
about power over another.

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knuththetruth
Samoans have a similar construct:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa'afafine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa'afafine)

