

Vaccinating the World's Top Predators May Be the Only Way to Save Them - DiabloD3
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/vaccinating-the-worlds-top-predators-may-be-the-only-way-to-save-them

======
ars
They should do it.

Almost every extinction I've read about was caused at the end by an infection
of some kind (fungus, parasite, virus, etc). Sure there might have been other
factors that weakened the animal or plant, but the nail in the coffin seemed
to always be an infection.

Hunting and other animal predators can massively reduce the numbers, but
extinct to zero almost always seemed to me to be an infection at end. Without
that they seem to hold on at low numbers, but not gone.

~~~
asciimo
That may have been true before human beings conquered the Earth. Here are
sixty more recent extinctions:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Species_made_extinct_b...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Species_made_extinct_by_human_activities)

~~~
enupten
Brace yourself for the HN downvotes!

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pvaldes
The video can have another hidden meaning (apart that the constatation that
humans are inherently stupid). This ill tiger is acting like a poisoned
predator. The fact is that top predators are being systematically erradicated
in a lot of places and to blame a virus as main cause is as convenient as
naive.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYN0z52x4pw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYN0z52x4pw)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLaLUyH4-vo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLaLUyH4-vo)

9 of each 10 wild lions living in Africa 60 years ago were exterminated in
just one human generation. Our generation. We will not save them only with
vaccines.

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sswaner
Maybe NOT vaccinating any of us real top predators may be the best way to save
the rest of the predators.

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joshuapants
Could vaccinating these animals effect evolution in some way? Species have to
die out for new species to come to the forefront; is it right for us to try
and change that? My impulse is to say, "Yes, vaccinate them and hopefully
eradicate this virus," but there is always that second thought.

~~~
SapphireSun
What do you think is the downside? Affecting evolution is kind of the point
(we don't want them to go extinct).

~~~
joshuapants
What would be the downside of having dinosaurs around? What would be the
downside of me being a Homo habilis and carving this message into the side of
a large rock?

Whenever humans meddle with the environment there are drastic unintended
consequences. I get it, they're charismatic animals and that's probably why
I'm being downvoted, but I don't think this is a particularly unreasonable
dissenting opinion.

~~~
Mz
_What would be the downside of having dinosaurs around?_

Dinosaurs couldn't possibly still be around. They existed in an era with a
much more dense atmosphere and a much higher concentration of oxygen (30% vs
16%, iirc). The type of lung they had and the size of body they had -- they
would suffocate here in our current atmosphere. It would be like a really bad
case of altitude sickness.

I think that's a very different scenario from what this article talks about,
where humans have basically created this virus by domesticating dogs and
having a fairly homogenous population of domesticated animals globally and now
there are several billion humans...etc....and it is killing wild animals that
shouldn't be all getting exposed to the same illness.

I really think this is a very different thing from natural extinction of
dinosaurs.

------
ForHackernews
Wait, but what if the lions get autism?

~~~
Raphmedia
A tiger with down syndrome made the news a while back.

[http://www.pbh2.com/wtf/meet-kenny-an-inbred-white-
tiger/](http://www.pbh2.com/wtf/meet-kenny-an-inbred-white-tiger/)

~~~
freshyill
Except that Down syndrome isn't the result of inbreeding. Down syndrome is a
very specific genetic disorder.

That's a dumbed-down explanation from a third-rate viral site, which exists
solely to generate clicks from Facebook, and not an actual medical or
scientific description of the tiger's condition.

------
Mz
I am kind of moderately anti-vax, but reading the article makes me feel this
is worth a shot because of this:

 _Previous attempts to control the spread of CDV into wild populations focused
on stopping the virus at the presumed source—domestic dogs. Unfortunately,
research now shows that top predators are probably contracting CDV from
smaller wild animals that act as intermediaries. The simplest solution,
then—ensuring that humans vaccinate their pets—may no longer be an effective
option._

Edit: So admitting to being moderately anit-vax is adequate reason for being
downvoted to hell, even though it was given as a qualifier to strengthen my
statement that this plan to vaccinate big cats sounds like it has merit.

Wow.

~~~
mc32
I'm curious what is the basis for being anti-vax? Is there science behind that
notion? To me it appears irrational, but I'm up for an alternative take out of
curiosity.

Sometimes I wonder why people with this conviction dont just move to locations
of low vaccination. I hear places in SE Asia, some parts of Africa have low
vaccination rates, more out of poverty than conviction, but low rates non the
less

~~~
Mz
I have a deadly, incurable medical condition for which an annual flu vax is
routinely prescribed. I was diagnosed late in life, just before I turned 36.
Doctors told me bluntly "People like you don't get well. Symptom management is
the name of the game." But it is genetic, so I was born with it, so I felt
strongly that now that we knew why I was always sickly, we should be able to
do a better job of dealing with my health than the years before that when I
knew something wasn't right but did not know what and doctors acted like I was
a hypochondriac.

In part due to happenstance, in part because doctors were not really doing
much for me, I sort of fell into a lot of alternative med stuff. I began
getting gradually healthier, even though I had spent a year at death's door.
All of the people who were actually helping me get stronger while doctors
wrote me off for dead were very strongly anti-vax.

The first two or three years following my diagnosis, when I was prescribed the
flu shot, my doctor said 'Sign here and roll up your sleeve." and gave it to
me right then and there. Then one year my check-up was a few weeks before the
vaccine was available, so he wrote me a prescription. By then, I was already
seeing a lot of gains from the "crazy" alternative med stuff I was doing. It
was easy enough to just not get that prescription filled. I haven't had
another vaccine since then.

Fourteen years ago, I nearly died and spent 3.5 years in bed. Now, I walk four
or more hours a day and I am gradually getting my life back.

I am not on some campaign to convince people that vaccines are bad. I don't
have strong feelings one way or the other. For complex reasons, I happen to be
in a position where I can reasonably comfortably fence-sit on this issue and
not develop a strong opinion. But, as things stand now, I don't plan to get
any more flu shots. I think I am better off using other tactics to protect my
health.

~~~
danudey
Flu vaccines aren't about protecting your health, they're about protecting
everyone's health. By not vaccinating, you're contributing to the elimination
of herd immunity[1], ensuring that people who _cannot_ vaccinate for whatever
reasons (too young, compromised immune system, egg allergy, etc) are at a
significantly higher risk of contracting the disease and putting their lives
at risk.

Unfortunately, this isn't one of those situations where you can fence-sit,
because fence-sitting means you don't get vaccinated, which undermines public
health and allows for the accelerated spread of diseases that can cripple or
kill other people.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)

~~~
hga
Partly disagree in this case.

So few people take the flu vaccine that there's no possibility of establishing
general herd immunity, even if the experts guess right every flu season (this
year they didn't for the Northern Hemisphere, or at least the US). On the
smaller scale it's wise, e.g. now that I'm living with my 81 year old father,
partly to help take care of him, that's an additional reason I take the
vaccine.

~~~
Retric
Targeted herd immunity works even at low levels. (Ex: staff at nursing homes.)
The benifit it simply exponential (Assuming the vaccine is not 100% effective
but transmission chances are low.)

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enupten
Very sad, and yet, sadder still is that we don't see ourselves for the locusts
we've come to be.

~~~
civilian
So, have you got a solution?

~~~
enupten
I don't, really; the obvious one of using unregulated power, bring in far too
much chaos, and hence useless.

I'm actually surprised that this view is so unpopular here...

~~~
civilian
I dunno, your statement is kind of anti-growth. Calling humans locusts, at
least to me, brings the image of some greeny who would advocate genocide for
the sake of the planet.

~~~
enupten
Sorry, I guess I should fully weigh the connotations of the words I use.

I certainly am not Anti-Growth; but I do believe that per-capita Growth can be
accomodated with a decrease in the nominal economy. I think, as yet, the only
known, surefire way of doing this is by improving education (esp. that of
Women) and the economy.

