
General Motors Is Going All Electric - Dimitris
https://www.wired.com/story/general-motors-electric-cars-plan-gm?mbid=social_twitter
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twblalock
I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric
technology so quickly.

I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The
Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago
(that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind.
The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer
version of it with better range.

However, these new electric cars are mostly of interest to homeowners. People
who park on the street have no realistic way to charge their cars at their
homes, and all but the newest luxury apartments lack charging stations.
Relying on public charging infrastructure is not realistic, and relying on
charging at work is unwise -- it will limit your next job opportunity to
companies that also have charging stations, unless you are willing to replace
your car. Even relying on charging at an apartment is unwise, because it will
limit where you can move to.

So, I guess electric car ownership is effectively another perk of home
ownership.

~~~
mrlyc
> People who park on the street have no realistic way to charge their cars at
> their homes

Perhaps there could be combined parking meters and charging stations. You
would pay a certain amount of money if you just wanted to park and you would
pay more if you wanted to charge your car too.

~~~
r00fus
That's an amazing idea.

Also imagine solar covered parking which could be a good moneymaker (sell
energy and/or sell preferred parking spots).

~~~
KGIII
I wonder how viable covering parking lots would be in areas where you get a
lot of snow. At some point, you will have to find a way to remove it -
sometimes even a bunch of ice.

But, it has a bonus of keeping the precipitation that would land on your
vehicle. That might just be its best feature.

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r00fus
I recently bought an inexpensive electric (Ford Focus Electric 2017), and I
can't imagine going back.

No gas stations, no oil changes, no transmission failures, no engine
breakdowns, no timing belt, no transaxles, overall less costs even energy
wise.

Also it's got amazing pickup and can beat guzzlers off the line (I've edged
out Mustangs, but I haven't gone head to head with a Porsche).

So I have to charge every day - great, same with my iPhone (which, amusingly,
is increasingly more important than my car - I can always hire a Lyft/Uber
with my phone).

I think the electric revolution is like the SSD one - 10 years ago it was
"unreliable" but today no one goes spinning rust unless they have absolute
need to.

~~~
elorant
What about batteries wearing out year after year? How much would it cost to
change all the batteries in your car?

~~~
5ilv3r
There is very little year over year wear. After a decade or two in a moderate
climate you can expect 80% capacity still.

~~~
antisthenes
How can you possibly make that claim when the oldest electric-only vehicles
are 10 years old?

How can you possibly make that claim without knowing the driving patterns of
the person you're addressing?

What is a _moderate climate_ ?

I mean, I'd love to just assume what you said is true (I'm as much as an
electric car fan as your typical HN'er), but you're going to need to provide
some data to back those claims up.

~~~
r00fus
Go to the Tesla forums. You can estimate 10 year degradation rate based on the
5 year rate.

Moderate climate probably refers to not having many freezing or >100 temp
days.

~~~
antisthenes
Yes, estimates, not certainties.

Thanks for proving my point.

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thinkling
If fully electric cars don't quite work for your needs because of the range or
the charge times, I recommend looking at the Chevy Volt. I think the Voltec
drivetrain is a great design. It drives like an EV, even when the engine is
active, but eliminates range anxiety. The integration of the electric motors
and gas engine is really good.

With my driving pattern, I end up driving on pre-charged electric 50% of the
time and gas about 50% of the time. On gas, the car gets the advertised 42mpg.

~~~
cwbrandsma
My problem is seats. Ideally I want a vehicle that sits 8 people (minimum is
7) -- and not cost a small fortune. So, for the time being electrics are out
of the running for me. I'll check back in 10 years when most of my kids have
moved out.

~~~
stevenwoo
Isn't your eligible list of vehicles tiny - 7 seater? Forget not costing a
small fortune, off the top of my head a Mercedes Sprinter van and Chevy
Suburban are not cheap to buy or run.

~~~
thinkling
Every minivan is a 7-seater (2 + 2 + 3) and many bigger SUVs are, as well.

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justboxing
About Time.

Just like Leica dropped the ball on moving on to Digital Cameras, General
Motors was slow to get on the Electric Vehicles bandwagon.

> "General Motors believes the future is all-electric," says Mark Reuss, the
> company’s head of product. "We are far along in our plan to lead the way to
> that future world."

Glad to see that they are going all-in.

~~~
pacerwpg
GM had one of the first EVs in the 90s, the EV1. They jumped in before the
technology was there.

They've also been working with gas-electric mixed technology with the Volt
since 2010 and more recently the Bolt.

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forapurpose
I was driving by some town houses[0] in a dense city recently and wondered:
How would electric car owners who live there charge their cars? They don't
have a driveway or garage or any designated parking place; they find parking
on the street in their neighborhood. Unless someone installs charging stations
up and down the streets, where will the residents charge their future electric
cars?

I read about one city that discontinued a program where electric car owners
could reserve a spot on the street and install a charging station. But that is
inefficient use for a parking spot that may be empty most of the day.

[0] By "town houses", I mean houses that share the walls on either side with
their neighbors; they are lined up side by side. You see them often in dense
urban areas. There is no place for a driveway and rarely is precious real
estate used for a garage.

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unit91
I don't see how this can work in anything but a commuter-centric car. Want to
drive from LA to SF or from Austin to Tulsa? Too bad. Want to drive an
electric, loaded pickup from Austin to Dallas? Also not going to happen.

Unless they make some significant technological strides, nations larger than
Norway are going to take a serious economic hit.

~~~
elihu
According to the article, GM is also investing in fuel cells.

They also aren't converting to all electric right now, they're rolling out
some new electric models and are planning to eventually stop building gas-
burning cars. If that doesn't happen for another ten or twenty years, we can
probably expect some significant improvements in battery capacity per unit of
mass and cost in that time.

According to Google maps, Austin to Dallas is 195 miles, LA to SF is 382
miles, and Austin to Tulsa is 454 miles.

~200 mile road trips are possible now with current technology. There aren't
any electric pickups on the market as far as I know, but it should be possible
(though expensive) with current technology for an electric truck to make the
trip if it had a battery that's sized appropriately for that kind of use.

~400 mile road trips are a bit too far for a single battery charge at highway
speeds without some kind of new technology or a vehicle that's optimized for
range over other concerns, but I wouldn't want be driving that long without a
break anyways. I expect if there's a market for that kind of vehicle, someone
will build it eventually.

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loceng
Smart. Elon should feel very proud.

~~~
KGIII
What I like most is that I bet they will make use of some of his patents, for
free. Tesla's patent library is free for use, by any company. He has pretty
much written his name into automotive history.

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throwaway2016a
I am very impressed that GM decided to do this. I realize that this is apples
and oranges. Cars are all different and each model has to be certified in all
he different countries. But my first thought (besides "Awesome!") when Elon
musk announced his mars plans was that it's amazing he wants to do all this in
less time than car makers are able / willing to ditch fossil fuels. Good to
see GM on the right track.

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5ilv3r
It would seem Detroit no longer feels the need to emphasize the importance of
traditional energy companies to our future. Very nice too see after so many
years of them promising hydrogen will solve everything and make your wife and
dog come back home.

~~~
elihu
From the article:

> The new all-electric models will be a mix of battery electric cars and fuel
> cell-powered vehicles.

They don't specify whether the fuel cells will be hydrogen or something else,
but it may be premature to say that Detroit has given up on hydrogen as a
fuel.

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leesalminen
I test drove a Bolt EV last week. Neat car. The interior was lacking for me,
though. I ended up with an Audi.

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graycat
> That product onslaught puts the company at the forefront of an increasingly
> large crowd of automakers proclaiming the age of electricity and promising
> to move away from gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles.

Uh, call that for small, mostly urban, pregnant roller skate cars but not much
for SUVs or light trucks and certainly not for the main uses of Diesel in long
haul 18 wheel trucks, backhoes, earth moving equipment, boats, etc. "Vehicles"
is way too strong, has the authors dreaming.

Also, so far the recharging time is too long for nearly everyone. And for
rural drivers, mostly "No way"; they still need gasoline, put in 20 gallons in
a few minutes.

