
A Few Questions About the Culture: An Interview with Iain Banks - strlen
http://strangehorizons.com/2014/20141103/1banks-a.shtml
======
cletus
I think I read my first Culture book more than 20 years ago. I still remember
the delight at the chase scene through the GSV. It reminds me of the shopping
mall chase from the Blues Brothers in a way (and I am by no means the first to
make that comparison).

Some of the ideas expressed are just amazing. I still use and love the phrase
"Outside Context Problem". Excession, while not as universally popular as the
(excellent) Player of Games, is still one of my favourite books.

I haven't read the last one yet. I almost can't bring myself to, in a way.
Because after that, that's it. It's incredibly sad that we lost Banks so soon,
obviously for his friends and family, but I would've loved to continue reading
what he would have written.

Other commenters mention the dystopian future many authors project. The other
end of the spectrum is dominated by nauseating projections of America utopias
like in Star Trek.

For a very different yet immersive world I'd highly recommend people pick up
either the Merchanter or the Foreigner series by CJ Cherryh.

~~~
HCIdivision17
I can understand your feelings, but i suspect you'll find The Hydrogen Sonata
a fitting book to cap the series. There's a neat demonstration of what
fairness really is worth at the end that's just ... I don't know, poetical.
There's a sense of finality and closing that fits nicely.

But perhaps I just need to revisit the books again, if only to revisit Sleeper
Service.

~~~
midhir
That's cool, I've never seen anyone recommend The Hydrogen Sonata so left it
to last, along with Inversions.

For all the fixation on his comment about American Libertarianism, Banks's
politics seem fairly standard post-Thatcher Scottish to me. After what that PM
did to Scottish communities many Scots apparently feel they have little in
common with the direction English conservatives are taking the UK.

Banks was a supporter of Independence and famously cut up his British Passport
and sent it to Downing Street in protest of the Iraq invasion.

IMO you can see his politics all over the Culture; from the entire tragedy of
Look To Windward to the wee things.

~~~
arethuza
Here is an interesting article by Ken MacLeod (another excellent Scottish SF
author) and long time friend of Banks:

[http://kenmacleod.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/use-of-
calculators....](http://kenmacleod.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/use-of-
calculators.html)

 _" what mattered was to keep the utopian possibility open by continuing
technological progress, especially space development, and in the meantime to
support whatever policies and politics in the real world were rational and
humane"_

~~~
strlen
Slightly off-topic, if someone is interested in works of MacLeod, what's a
good starting spot?

~~~
arethuza
Has to be _The Star Fraction_ \- which is the first book in two series!

------
mbillie1
I've always found the Culture a fascinating and refreshing alternative to the
extremely played-out and commonplace dystopic visions of AI as exist in
virtually all other science fiction. It's also interesting to think about how
a post-scarcity society would function, particular as our society moves (ever
so slowly) toward at least the full automation of labor, if not post-scarcity
itself.

~~~
cstuder
The funniest thing about the books: They are mostly not about the Culture
itself. Because it's boooooring.

The fringes are much more interesting.

~~~
ChillyWater
I think the funniest thing about the books are the names of the ships. Things
like: The 'Probably Not a Good Idea' dropped into orbit around the fourth
planet.

~~~
mbillie1
The _Mistake Not..._ 's unveiling of its name in _The Hydrogen Sonata_ is one
of the funnier ship name moments I can think of.

------
dalanmiller
"The Player of Games" is one of my favorite books.

It's such a shame that we lost him last year while still quite young -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Banks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Banks)

~~~
danieltillett
Player of Games is really good, but his best Culture book is probably "The Use
of Weapons".

~~~
eco
My favorite is Excession. The minds are often more interesting than the
humans.

~~~
joshvm
Excession is basically Mind-porn. It's the one you read once you have some
understanding of how the Culture operates and then by god it's good. I imagine
people who read it early on are disappointed or annoyed by all the jargon -
the very beginning in particular, even though it does get explained simply to
you later on in the book.

~~~
misnome
Curiously, this is the first one I read - the premise sounded interesting when
reading the back in an airport bookshop. It was a little hurdle to get past
the beginning, but once adjusted very rewarding. Easier to read than Feersum
Endjinn, at least!

Personally I think "Look to Windward" is probably the best general
introduction to the culture.

~~~
qohen
_Easier to read than Feersum Endjinn, at least!_

A Feersum Endjinn reading tip/hack: from what I recall (having done it, years
ago), you can save time (and annoyance) by simply skipping the chapters with
the phonetically-spelled journal of the mentally-challenged character, Bascule
the Teller, and the story still seems to work just fine.

You'll just want to remember that Bascule exists, though, so when he shows up
-- way later, in the third-person -- you'll know who it is.

------
jwatte
"Selfishness is the the new black and I despise it."

That. Right there. He sees it; we (collectively) don't.

~~~
eevilspock
My favorite part:

 _I pretty much despise American Libertarianism. Have these people seriously
looked at the problems of the world and thought, 'Hmm, what we need here is a
bit more selfishness'? . . . I beg to differ. This is not say that
Libertarianism can't represent a progressive force, in the right
circumstances, and I don't doubt there will be significant areas where I would
agree with Libertarianism. But, really; which bit of not having private
property, and the absence of money in the Culture novels, have these people
missed? The Culture is hippy commies with hyper-weapons and a deep distrust of
both Marketolatry and Greedism. One rests one's case._

~~~
isomorphic
This is because American Libertarianism conflates the two ideas "I should be
free to do almost anything I want" with "I owe nothing to other humans (and
vice-versa)." The Culture is absolutely about the former and absolutely not
about the latter.

~~~
meric
Which one of these values, when in-grained into society, offers the most
utility:

"I give a lot to my fellow human beings, because they are obligations
enshrined by law."

"I give a lot to my fellow human beings, out of the goodness of my heart."

And that's what "Anti-Libertarianists" don't get.

~~~
dghf
You're missing a third option: "I give a lot to _society at large_ (of which I
am part), out of enlightened self-interest (reinforced by legal penalties if I
act short-sightedly)."

Some people will thrive no matter what: centuries of warlordism, robber
barons, gangsterism and piracy prove that.

But most people who make a lot of money -- whether from a well-paid job,
running a successful business, or a fruitful investment portfolio -- can only
do so, and can only enjoy the benefits of doing so, with the support of the
trappings of a modern civilised society. E.g.:

\- a settled body of law, with a justice system to enforce it

\- a more or less ordered and peaceful society

\- a more or less stable currency

\- civil infrastructure, including transport, utilities and communications

\- public health (private medicine will only go so far in protecting the rich
in a society rife with infection; plus employees and customers dying of
preventable conditions is bad for business)

\- public education (all but the most menial jobs require at least basic
literacy and numeracy, and most require significantly more)

\- some kind of safety net for the poor (impoverished people make poor
customers, and angry young impoverished people can get a bit handy at the
barricades)

These cost money.

The rich get to be rich, and to enjoy their riches, _because_ of the taxes
they (and everyone else) pay, not in spite of them.

~~~
wlievens
Well put. What strikes me as strange is that somehow a lot of people associate
your train of thought there with some kind of "socialism" whereas it's just
plain common sense (free market supporting) pragmatism.

~~~
meric
if you can implement those policies without NSA surveillence overreach or
police abusing their powers with civil asset forfeiture or Obamacare raising
the cost of insurance or setting up a financial system with banks too big to
prosecute, then I'd be all for it. Over the past year or so I'm convinced this
is impossible, and that the existing value system the U.S. Is built on is
flawed. I hope this has not struck you as strange.

~~~
wlievens
I wasn't talking about the US in particular, I'm from Europe in fact.

I pretty much agree with all your points: surveillance overreach is
unacceptable, police power abuse is disgusting, mandatory private health
insurance is unethical (though the previous situation didn't exactly work
either so I'm unsure that would be better), and I think almost all monopolies
are the enemy of both free markets and social protection.

Fixing these things does not require libertarianism or socialism or
whatelsehaveyouism. They need political pragmatism, courage and common sense.

------
Panino
I'm about halfway through the Culture novels. The stories provide so much to
consider/discuss and I highly recommend them.

The thought Banks continually returns to in this interview is how as a species
to overcome xenophobia. I think this problem should be overcome before people
start building true AI, because just imagine xenophobic AI.

A great interview. Now I can't wait to pick up the next Culture book!

~~~
XorNot
I'd argue that overcoming xenophobia is more important for us as a species so
we can relate to true AI.

~~~
danieltillett
I would argue not developing xenophobic AI is more critical. If we hate the
AI's their feeling will just be hurt, but if they hate us...

~~~
undersuit
>but if they hate us...

Then we give them a pat on the back for being so perceptive.

------
Eric_WVGG
related: A Few Notes on Marain (as it is written and coded) [http://trevor-
hopkins.com/banks/a-few-notes-on-marain.html](http://trevor-
hopkins.com/banks/a-few-notes-on-marain.html)

Love these books. Re-read Surface Detail myself last month, now slogging
through Algebraist and seeing if I actually like it or not…

~~~
wpietri
I ended up loving The Algebraist. It's a very different book that the various
Culture novels, but I love the world-building and so many of the little
details.

------
cstuder
This interview has been published as a goodie for the donation drive Strange
Horizons is currently doing. If you liked it, consider donating a couple of
bucks:
[http://strangehorizons.com/fund_drives/2014/main.shtml](http://strangehorizons.com/fund_drives/2014/main.shtml)

(No affiliation, I just love how much stuff there is to read for free on that
page...)

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cpeterso
Perfect timing! I just finished _Surface Detail_ about thirty minutes ago. :)

------
ufmace
I started reading the Culture series based on a few recommendations here, and
I've really been enjoying it so far. The stories make for good reading, though
the nature of the society hasn't been explored that well, and I guess never
will now, leaving a lot of open questions about the nature of humanity and AI.
A few that it's brought me to ponder:

Are humans capable of living in a society where we know that machines rule us
unquestionably, we can never do anything as well as a machine can, and
anything we could ever want is provided to us free, so much so that there
isn't even any point to the existence of money? Would we all just collectively
flip out or something?

For that matter, what happens if an ordinary Culture person decides to take a
trip to some foreign capitalist society? Presumably the trip would have to be
approved by Contact or something, which seems kind of ominous by itself. Where
would they get money to go do touristy things in that society? Does the
culture make money in that society somehow, and give anybody who wants to
visit an unlimited pile of it? Or is it limited somehow?

Exactly what makes the Mind AIs free from all of the mental issues and
personality flaws that have caused Human-led societies so many issues?
Especially when we see that the human-level drones seem to have a rather
ordinary level of positive and negative personality traits.

Exactly how does this society go about deciding which Minds decide what? Do
the Minds vote or something? If so, how is it decided which Minds get a vote?
Which Minds decide when and how to produce more Minds, and how to
train/educate them? Essentially, what is the structure of the Mind-government?
Do the humans keep track of the going-ons of the Mind government, however it
works, and how do they feel about having zero say about what happens there?

------
topbanana
Amusing pronunciation guide in the Marain page:

[http://trevor-hopkins.com/banks/a-few-notes-on-marain.html](http://trevor-
hopkins.com/banks/a-few-notes-on-marain.html)

> 'll' as in Welsh

In fact, ll is pronounced as 'y' in the Welsh language

