
SamyGO: Open-Source Firmware for Samsung TVs (2011) - pabs3
https://www.samygo.tv/
======
myself248
Except this doesn't appear to be an open-source firmware. From my reading of
their wiki, it's a series of hacks and patches to make small changes to the
operating environment. All of Samsung's code is still in there, unless I'm
missing something.

Also this should have a [2012] or something in the title. Most of it is very
stale and applies to models no longer sold or popular.

~~~
dylan604
Isn't this pretty much exactly how the Canon DSLR MagicLantern works? The
microcode on the chip is not modified in any way. The ML firmware just
provides a different method of using the existing instructions on the chip.
Remove the card with the ML code, and the camera returns to the original
operational mode.

~~~
missosoup
You can make magic lantern permanent and not require a card.

~~~
wh1t3n01s3
Same in some old samsung TVs, you could flash hacked fw with special cable

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walterbell
LG TVs are based on WebOS, which is based on OpenEmbedded. Has anyone tried
modifying LG TV firmware?

[https://www.webosose.org/](https://www.webosose.org/)

[https://github.com/webosose](https://github.com/webosose)

 _>... HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. For web app development, you can use
Enact, a React-based application framework optimized for webOS OSE, as well as
other modern web application frameworks ...native technologies including Qt
... architecture based on Node.js and Luna Bus

> In addition to the openness as an open community to developers, webOS OSE
> also pursues openness to other technologies, especially open source ones,
> such as Qt, Chromium, and Yocto ... now taking a step further to other
> verticals targeting smart and connected products, such as robot, smart home,
> and automotive_

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purpleidea
The project looks really dead, but it would be nice to have either a revival,
or a new alternative. I'd like to get a new TV, but I don't want the junk
proprietary stack that it comes with.

Ideas?

~~~
myself248
If I ever buy a TV, my plan is to simply use it as a big HDMI monitor. Slit
open the side of the HDMI cable and cut the Ethernet wires therein. Never
connect it to my wifi. If other wireless networks are ubiquitous by that time,
open it up and neuter their transceivers too.

Any internet functionality will come from a device I trust and control, with
only the display portion handed to Spysung.

~~~
jsmeaton
Hang on - HDMI can do Ethernet? That was news to me.

~~~
gregmac
I was trying to find an "HDMI condom" (equivalent to the usb ones [1]) but
came up dry. Does such a thing exist yet, or is there just no market?

Is it possible to use something such as an HDMI splitter to accomplish the
same thing, or can those pass Ethernet as well, and how would you be able to
tell?

[1] [https://int3.cc/products/usbcondoms](https://int3.cc/products/usbcondoms)

~~~
wh1t3n01s3
You could maybe try an old hdmi splitter not compatible with latest dhcp (that
supports ethernet)

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AdamJacobMuller
Fantastic.

I would love a TV that entirely removes all the app features and retains my
ability to network control it. I get why TV manufacturers don't want to
release a TV like that, but, open-source replacement firmware seems like a
fantastic solution. It could really be amazingly simple and meet my needs.

~~~
andkenneth
The average consumer wants the smart features.

~~~
CivBase
They can keep selling their "smart" trash to the average consumer. I'll pay
extra for a purposely dumb skew.

All I want from a TV is a good panel, at least one modern video input (latest
HDMI or DisplayPort), and a nice-enough housing to hold it all together.
Speakers are nice but not necessary since I'll probably just use something
external. I'll even get a separate box to handle all the inputs.

No apps. No internet. No voice commands. No virtual assistant. No cameras. No
ads. Just a freaking display, please. I will pay extra and I doubt I'm the
only one.

~~~
null_object
I often read statements on HN in reaction to articles like this, saying “I’d
willingly pay more for a TV that doesn’t do this...”.

Those TVs do exist: Loewe make really nice TVs which don’t depend on internet
connectivity to work[1]. And depending on how seriously the “pay more” part is
meant, the Danish company Bang & Olufsen[2] make enormously expensive TVs that
won’t spy on you, or insert advertisements into your films.

[1] [https://www.loewe.tv/int](https://www.loewe.tv/int)

[2] [https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/televisions](https://www.bang-
olufsen.com/en/televisions)

~~~
rainbowzootsuit
NEC industrial/commercial displays make good and dumb lcd displays as well.

[https://www.necdisplay.com/](https://www.necdisplay.com/)

~~~
joking
Almost any comercial / digital signage display can be dumb enough, and
probably don’t have the user spyware, even the Samsung ones.

------
deeblering4
To the webmaster: Here are a few notes on the copy that might help it read
more clearly.

> SamyGO is a project for legal reverse engineering and research on Samsung
> Television firmwares which is Open Sourced, partially. We try to fix
> problems that in the firmware. We don't want money from you. We make this
> modifications for us and ourself but you are allowed to join us.

SamyGO is a project to legally reverse engineer and research Samsung TV
firmwares. We try to fix the problems that exist in the stock firmware.

This project is free and open source. We don't want money from you. Instead,
we make these modifications for ourselves, and encourage you to join us by
contributing further improvements.

~~~
victor9000
> We try to fix problems that in the firmware.

What?

~~~
_eht
Enable deduction mode.

------
yellow_lead
Nice beginners page here:

[https://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=SamyGO_for_DUMMIES](https://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=SamyGO_for_DUMMIES)

This looks awesome and I can't wait to try it out on my TV.

------
noodlesUK
Well, this is right on time given the discussion of Samsung screens phoning
home ;)

------
imposterr
If anyone wants a truly dumb modern 4K TV, without going through weird hoops
to get one, I would recommend the Dell C5519Q [1]. You can get it for under 1K
USD at CDW.

[1] [https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-
room-m...](https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-room-
monitor-c5519q/apd/210-arev/monitors-monitor-accessories)

~~~
electrograv
Sorry to say, but looking at these specs and price, this is not even in the
same ballpark as the image quality offered by modern flagship TVs — which you
will get (and should _expect_ in 2020) in this price and size range, and also
have the ability to be used as non-smart TVs for the privacy-conscious[1].

For the same price, you can buy the latest brand new 55” OLED TV from LG,
which has absolutely spectacular picture quality in every respect _(including
fantastic color calibration capabilities)_ , raw pixel response times better
than any “PC gaming monitor”, and even input lag (overall end-to-end latency)
rivaling or beating many gaming monitors today[2]. Nothing else even comes
close, aside from Sony models (also in this price range) which also use LG’s
OLED panels.

So rather than hacking your Samsung or buying an inferior Dell monitor meant
for PowerPoint presentations, a far better solution is to just stop buying
Samsung TVs. In addition to their deceptive marketing and other issues like
intentionally bad (over saturated) color calibration out of box, they are
designed to be _impossible_ to correctly calibrate due to always-on tone
mapping. They do this because they think it makes their TVs look better, and
they’re fighting a losing battle against OLED TVs which Samsung does not have
any answer to at the moment[3]. Tone mapping that cannot be turned off is a
cheap software trick that compromises the accuracy of the source material in
hopes of making their TVs have a higher contrast appearance than their
hardware is actually capable of (but it does cause artifacts and other
downsides, even in regular streaming content).

[1] If you’re really concerned about privacy, LG’s TVs allow you to decline
all the terms of service and still use them as “old fashioned TVs” with just
the non-smart inputs like HDMI. I’ve tested this on my new LG C9, and it works
great.

[2] Objective measurements of the LG C9 OLED series:
[https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled](https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled)

[3] Samsung (and everyone else) is way behind LG’s OLED tech, until they
manage to get micro-LED technology to scale up and reach affordable prices.
Micro-LED will be superior even to OLED, but right now it is not a production
reality, and exists only as multimillion dollar display tech demo prototypes.
One other possible alternate to OLED is dual layer LCD, but I don’t think
anyone is seriously pursuing that for consumer TV use due to their power and
heat issues.

~~~
rowanG077
I'm sorry but the LG TV you linked doesn't even come close to gaming monitors
input lag. The link you posted measured 13ms while good gaming monitors have
input lag of a about a millisecond [1]. That is an order of magnitude better.

[1] [https://turbofuture.com/computers/Top-Gaming-
Monitor](https://turbofuture.com/computers/Top-Gaming-Monitor)

~~~
electrograv
The article you linked is in error — plain and simple. The top budget pick,
for example, is claimed to have 0.7ms input lag and 1.0ms gray to gray
response time, which is obviously wrong — how can total input lag possibly be
less than the time it takes for pixels to physically change state?

So I looked the model up on rtings (who does their own objective measurements
— a much more reputable source than some random blog post / sponsored link ad)
and their tests show it’s not much different from the LG C9:
[https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/vg248qe](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/vg248qe)

At best, the Asus VG248QE achieves 5.1ms input lag, with 2.1ms 80% transition
response time.

At the same resolution (1440p) but lower refresh rate (120hz vs 144hz) the LG
C9 achieves 6.6ms input lag, with 0.2ms 80% transition response time.

The LG input lag time you quoted is when running 4K at 60hz, which is a
fantastic input lag for that mode, and as far as I know about as good as any
4K gaming monitor out there. The C9 is actually capable of variable refresh
rate though at 4K via HDMI 2.1 as well, but no current video cards or drivers
are yet capable of this — but when they are, the expectation is that the LG C9
will be a serious contender vs even many dedicated gaming monitors.

Be very careful when comparing specs between different sources, combining
different measurement methods, or _comparing input lag numbers when the
displays are configured at different refresh rates and screen resolutions._

------
heavyset_go
Pretty sure newer Samsung TVs run Tizen.

Edit: Yep, Samsung TVs released sometime after 2015 ship with Tizen[1]

[1]
[https://developer.samsung.com/tv/develop/specifications/tv-m...](https://developer.samsung.com/tv/develop/specifications/tv-
model-groups/)

------
anonymousiam
Is it just me, or is this site now gone? I can see some content in Google
Cache, but I am wondering if this site has been taken down by a DMCA request.
If so, it's a bogus request because no "circumvention" has occurred, just
reverse-engineering and alternative (and free) firmware.

~~~
jvolkman
Works for me.

------
ribalda
A bit off topic: Any idea about how to install apps from two countries in your
Samsung tizen TV. As a expat I want to see TV from my home and host country.
If I change the country from my TV all the apps are uninstalled :(

~~~
netsharc
Ah, I hate the stupid "convenient" localization. I remember reading an
American being angry that Google's homepage came up Arabic because he was in
Kuwait.

Recently I was in a foreign country looking up hotels in my home country, and
even though I earn money there and was planning to spend it in that country,
Google Maps was showing me hotel prices in the foreign currency. I was even
logged in and had defined where Home and Work in Google Maps...

------
wadayaknow
Are there any open source alternatives to Tizen?

Also anyone attempted to reverse engineer the new Samsung 4k uhd TVs? I have
constant network issues + obvious privacy concerns

~~~
dastx
Tizen is open source and backed by the Linux Foundation. I think what you
really want is a way of installing the OSS version onto the TV.

~~~
wadayaknow
That is indeed what I really want

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gdm85
If I remember correctly you need to make a donation to access some firmwares,
but I cannot tell whether you can access the source after the donation.

------
nenadst
maybe something like [https://pi-hole.net](https://pi-hole.net) and/or some
firewall rules could be used to stop all the offending traffic ?

Sounds easier than cutting physical lines..

Anybody using this and having success ?

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dghughes
Ha! A very well timed article.

~~~
caymanjim
Only 8 years between the two!

