
My Position On The Disney Layoffs - bradneuberg
https://plus.google.com/+KeithBarrett/posts/PWA6BXs7dbS
======
ThePhysicist
"I'm sharing news about it because this experience has taught me the H-1b Visa
program needs to change to protect others in the future."

It's surprising to me that Disney was able to replace its local workforce by
foreigners via H-1b visas, since I always thought that companies making use of
this type of visa were required to prove that they would not be able to find
an employee with the required qualifications in the US? Firing an employee to
replace him with an H-1b holder seems to completely contradict this
requirement.

Also, reading the visa requirements it seems that the company would be forced
to pay an H-1b employee a salary which is equivalent to that payed to a
"normal" employee performing the same function, so there does not seem to be a
huge financial benefit in this either.

Can anyone explain this?

~~~
exelius
I believe the author is simply mistaken that H1-Bs are the problem. H1-Bs are
limited enough that they can't be responsible for the volume of outsourcing.
They also carry salary parity requirements, and while H1-B holders rarely
actually make market salary, the savings still aren't enough to prompt a wave
of outsourcing. There was a problem at one time with H1-Bs, but the H1-B
lottery has become so competitive that it's not a reliable option for
companies to base a business model around anymore. The majority of H1-B
recipients these days are foreign nationals who attended American
universities, often with masters degrees. Those are the kinds of foreign
nationals we want participating in the US economy.

The problem today are the L-1 visas, which are relatively unregulated. L-1
visas are for foreign nationals in a management capacity whose companies wish
to transfer them to the US. These visas only require that the employer pay the
employee's living expenses, and the employee receives the normal salary they
would make in their home country (!).

All of this is fine until you start to stretch the definition of "management".
Which many consulting companies (Tata, Infosys, Cognizant, etc) have started
to do -- they can take a person from India who is paid ~$25,000/yr (a good
engineer's salary in India), fly him to the US on an L-1 visa, and charge him
out to the client at $100/hr. An equivalent US-based contractor rate for the
same position would be $125/hr and have margins around 10-15%. But the
offshoring firms can undercut US-based contractors by 25%, eat all the
travel/housing expenses, and STILL make well over 100% margins.

L-1s are actually the problem. There's no salary parity requirement, there's
no requirement to look for US-based candidates of equivalent positions, just a
requirement that the person is "acting in a management capacity" and has
worked for the company for at least 1 year. It's hard to prove that someone is
not "acting in a management capacity" \-- many of the companies outright lie
on the visa applications. What's worse, this type of dishonesty is considered
fair game when dealing with corrupt bureaucracies in India or China. But L-1s
are fueling the latest wave of offshoring: they allow companies to bring
people to the US at offshore prices.

~~~
djb_hackernews
> The majority of H1-B recipients these days are foreign nationals who
> attended American universities, often with masters degrees. Those are the
> kinds of foreign nationals we want participating in the US economy.

most smart companies that use the H1-B visa program only hire those with
masters degrees. This does 2 things:

\- They can first bring them on as "interns" under the F1 visa, which can be
extended quite a bit. They are paid peanuts while the firms weed out the
absolute duds.

\- This avoids the requirements on firms for extra reporting if a certain
percentage of their staff are H1-B don't have masters degrees.

This creates a nice little loophole where smaller colleges have massive
massive STEM programs with an insane majority being foreign students. The
students get their foot in the door to play the game and the colleges get
paid.

Take UT Dallas for example: [http://ecs.utdallas.edu/academics/assessment-
docs/2014/2014%...](http://ecs.utdallas.edu/academics/assessment-
docs/2014/2014%20Fall%20ECS%20Enrollment.pdf)

The CS Masters program is bigger than the CS undergrad program, only 4% of
graduating CS undergrads are international, where as 93% of FT CS Masters
students are international. That should be odd to anyone.

~~~
tanmayb
> This creates a nice little loophole where smaller colleges have massive
> massive STEM programs with an insane majority being foreign students. The
> students get their foot in the door to play the game and the colleges get
> paid.

And these foreign students usually take education loans(around $35k on
average) back in their countries. So when they fail to get a job after
completing MS degree, they go to the same outsourcing firms and work on F1
visa as contractors for substentially lower salaries again with getting their
foot in the door mentality. Outsourcing firms know and exploit the strong
tendency of these students to avoid having to go back to their countries where
salaries would be insufficient to pay back their student loans fast enough.

------
justizin
"I'm sharing news about it because this experience has taught me the H-1B Visa
program needs to change to protect others in the future."

Anyone who still supports FWD.us and believes that the US doesn't produce
enough professionals to satisfy the needs of our businesses is straight up,
while they are reading this, actually holding a crack pipe to their mouth.

~~~
shas3
Protectionism doesn't work. There is wide consensus among economists on
comparative advantage [1]. Healthy, non-protectionist immigration policies
have been proposed to have similar effects as free trade [2,3].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage)
[2]
[http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf](http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf)
[3]
[http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100008723963904434771045775512...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443477104577551250082215534)

~~~
makeitsuckless
Any immigration policy short of opening the borders completely is
"protectionist".

Just waving the word "protectionism" around is a non-statement that doesn't
say anything about what may or may not be wrong wit the current policy.

~~~
shas3
> Any immigration policy short of opening the borders completely is
> "protectionist".

How so? The idea of comparative advantage is that one country has a market,
another, the means to provide for that market and you facilitate this 'trade'.
India, China, pretty much most countries have plenty of top notch talent that
cannot be satiated by opportunities within their own countries. These are not
necessarily geniuses, but most high-performing highly skilled workers qualify.
The satisfaction that these highly talented folks seek is often provided only
in the US. For a moment, set aside the notion that people want to work in the
US for greenbacks. This is only partially true, in my experience. Most friends
and colleagues I know want to immigrate because their jobs are higher quality,
as is the work culture, etc.

US provides the (job) market for top talent, China, India, Europe, etc. supply
the talent.

Protectionism in this situation is just the act of putting ill-conceived
roadblocks in this 'trade'. No one is asking for open borders, just a fair
system where this 'trade' can be carried on smoothly.

~~~
makeitsuckless
Non-protectionist would be free traffic across borders like within the EU. Any
immigration policy is a form of protectionism.

BTW, I find your naive notion of the US as the promised land rather
unsettling. Personally, I don't know anybody who would want to immigrate to
the US, and especially not for the archaic, exploitative work culture.

Yes, this is matter of perspective. But you seem to be lacking any other
perspective than US good, everywhere else bad. Which is probably one of the
reasons why it's so easy to exploit immigrant knowledge workers in the US.

~~~
shas3
Wow! Gratuitous negativity?

~~~
makeitsuckless
Seriously? I politely object to you pissing all over any country that isn't
the US with false claims and I'm being gratuitously negative?

------
gigawhat
I used to rail against the H1-B program until I realized that the body-shop
consultancies aren't hurting demand for my services. . . they're increasing
it.

It seems like at least 75% of the body-shop projects end up being so poorly
executed that people like me inevitably get called in to revamp and clean up
the mess.

By all means, corporate America, keep giving out big projects to the lowest
bidder, who will throw their international cheap labor at it. Then call me up
to pick up the pieces in a year or two at my usual high rate, working from
home 100%.

~~~
ececconi
Then the project ends up being delivered late, over budget, then the middle-
managers that signed off on it get replaced or reprimanded by the execs.
Vicious cycle.

If you see the way these body-shop projects are pitched, it's one of the few
things that make me lose hope in humanity. They bring in an exec who pitches
the project, undercuts the competition by about 50%, then they staff some PMs
who have no idea what they're walking into.

~~~
sswaner
And if you sit through one of those pitch meetings, take note of who they
bring along to demonstrate capability. Other than your account rep, you will
never see any of those people during the actual project. You will be sent a
bunch of "freshers" who are barely competent. The Center of Excellence (COE)
staff are essentially technical pre-sales staff.

------
coldcode
"... and they routinely sacrificed personal time and freedoms to help make
your experience in the parks what it was". Never do this unless its a startup
you own. You get paid for X to do Y hours and nothing more. Anything more is
volunteer work for a for-profit employer.

~~~
kogus
That's a pretty cynical attitude. It's definitely possible to work for a for-
profit company and still care personally about the success of whatever they
are doing. You don't have a moral obligation to bend over backwards for a
company, but it's ok to be committed for reasons other than a paycheck.

~~~
dspillett
_> It's definitely possible to work for a for-profit company and still care
personally_

It is certainly possible, and usually very much appreciated (sometimes even
rewarded) in the short term.

Just don't expect it to make much difference to how you are treated over the
longer term. The company won't forget that you are an employee and you
shouldn't either. Heck, a company with shareholders is practically _legally
obliged_ to screw you over if it is better for the company to do so than not.

~~~
yourapostasy
> _Heck, a company with shareholders is practically legally obliged to..._

You are spreading the myth of a US (and most nations, for that matter) legal
obligation (the term of art is "fiduciary duty") of profit maximization to
shareholders. Please read the following.

[http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/8146/are-u-s-
com...](http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/8146/are-u-s-companies-
legally-obligated-to-maximize-profits-for-shareholders)

[http://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-
va...](http://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-value-myth/)

[https://hbr.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-shareholder-
capitalism](https://hbr.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-shareholder-capitalism)

If you are an attorney, then in the past somewhere on Harvard Law's site I
found an exhaustively-written piece that gives specific case law citations I
could cross-reference from Lexis-Nexis. The bar to clear to prove fiduciary
malfeasance in corporate governance is very high, and the latitude granted to
company management very broad; shareholders can enforce a fiduciary preference
through shareholder activism and throw out management, but the US judiciary
has steadfastly refused to lightly step into the management-shareholder
relationship in this regard.

This blog post delves into the follow-on questions more in the vein of
corporate social responsibility once you acknowledge the legal reality.

[http://www.robertstavinsblog.org/2009/05/12/straight-talk-
ab...](http://www.robertstavinsblog.org/2009/05/12/straight-talk-about-
corporate-social-responsibility/)

~~~
dspillett
That is why I said _practically_ rather than _literally_. It depends how
scared management are of shareholder action (or, more cynically, how willing
they are to use that thought as an excuse for what they wanted to do anyway).

------
kirinan
I usually don't comment on immigration policies because I'm a US citizen and
have never been an immigrant worker, however I dont believe this affects the
long term success or failure of the H1B visa program and nor should it. We do
exist in a global economy and you must therefore compete globally. If a
company feels that they can get equal talent to mine in another country for
cheaper costs then so be it; I didn't do a good enough job selling my talent
or showing why Im worth my rate. Its also the company's loss if they chose to
lay me off; I know what Im worth and Ill go find what Im worth. Even without
the H1B visa program, companies will still do this; whether or not the company
can employ the employee on US soil or not. This is in no way threatening to my
way of life or makes me fear for my future career prospects. It sucks that
Disney did this to their employees, but companies are no longer loyal to their
people and haven't been for a long time; you should act accordingly and not
show any loyalty to a company that shows you none.

~~~
matwood
> We do exist in a global economy and you must therefore compete globally.

I completely agree, but that's not what the H1-B visa program does. It allows
companies to lock in immigrant workers at a lower rate and little to no job
mobility. From a companies standpoint it is obviously what they want - pay
less, and job lock in!

The fix for the H1-B is true immigration reform. We need to make it easy for
people to come to the US and enter the job market just like anyone else.

~~~
theklub
Why do we need to make it easy for people to come take our jobs? Why would we
do that?

~~~
kalkin
Who's "us"? I don't know you, and I have friends who aren't Americans who have
been prevented by immigration policy from taking jobs here that I know they'd
have been great at. Why should I care more about you keeping your job--just
because we were born in the same politically defined geographic area?

But if you need a self-interested explanation: because you don't want to be
competing with people who have artificially-restricted bargaining power and so
have to take lower wages. The H1B program as-is, like the old bracero program
for farmworkers, is a "compromise" that benefits corporations at the expense
of both native-born U.S. citizens and immigrants.

~~~
ta2938489
Why should you care? Possibly because you realize that undercutting your
countrymen, the people you have to live with now regardless of whether they
are employed or not, is something that makes your actual community now a worse
place.

Call it self interest, but I want to live in a society that is functional and
with neighbors that are happy. The alternative is to retreat further and
further into an affluent bubble. Then, I admit, you don't have to care.

~~~
matwood
As soon as someone immigrates and becomes a citizen they are also your fellow
countrymen.

Where the next huge industry starts, wherever that happens to be, will define
the next super power. Having the US be attractive for foreigners to immigrate
to and become citizens raises the odds the US will be that place. I don't want
access to the Chinese or Indian stock markets, I want the best of their
citizens to want to immigrate to the US and start companies here because the
US is the _best_ place for company formation (not arguing either way atm, just
saying what I want). This type of environment raises all boats.

Instead we teach other countries best, send them home, and yield few of the
benefits as they go on to start companies.

~~~
ta2938489
By that argument, it seems like you would be in favor of being _extremely_
selective about who becomes your next fellow countryman. If he turns out to be
a liability, you're just that little bit further away from being the next
superpower. He may well not, but what if he does?

Could there be social welfare costs? Rising income inequality? Unemployment of
current citizens?

If you want to frame the problem in economic terms, a frank discussion of the
risks is mandatory. Right now we usually talk about it like a ca. 2008 banker
might have talked about naked credit default swaps. Sure, there might be a
risk. But think of how much money we can make!

------
dwightgunning
What exactly happened here?

Reading between the lines it sounds like Disney are executing an outsourced IT
transformation involving offshore IT application delivery (maybe maintenance,
IT ops etc.)? Flying in staff from offshore teams to shadow/train with the
team being reorganised is standard practice from what I've seen.

It isn't pretty but it's not like Disney are breaking new ground here...

------
dataker
Like Americans, such unscrupulous program also ends up hurting genuinely
talented and skilled foreign workers.

Many 'consulting firms' end up hiring/slaving thousands of workers(hence using
the H1-b quota), whereas others(not exploiting the loophole) end up not
getting called on the lottery.

A rational and realistic discussion is necessary, but most end up becoming too
biased and extreme("don't let anyone come here").

------
mlrtime
To voice your opinion, email guest.services@disneyworld.com.

This was the reply I received:

Dear Guest,

Thank you for contacting us regarding recent media reports about the
information technology restructuring at Disney Parks.

We greatly value the contributions of our Cast Members. We take great pride in
the fact that we have regularly been ranked as one of the best places to work
in the United States, but we are always looking for ways to improve.

Contrary to the misleading impression conveyed by certain media outlets, our
recent IT restructuring actually resulted in the expansion of our Disney Parks
IT team and the net addition of 70 new IT jobs in the United States. That's in
addition to the nearly 30,000 jobs we've added in the U.S. over the last 10
years. And all of our efforts are geared toward enhancing our ability to
deliver the best possible experiences for our Guests.

We appreciate your feedback on this issue.

Sincerely,

Matthew Cooper Guest Experience Services Walt Disney World Resort

~~~
iktl
Sadly, none of which says anything about the 70 new jobs and 30,000 jobs total
added in the US being non-citizens. New jobs in the US != NOT H1B workers.
Skillfully avoiding the topic, but I guess that's why he has that job.

And I say this as a non-citizen working in the US.

~~~
fluidcruft
As reported in the original NYT article, the 70 new Disney IT jobs are actual
Disney employees, not the controversial outsourced contractors (though the new
Disney employees may or may not include H1-B workers).

The eliminated Disney IT jobs were outsourced to a contracting shop. The
contracting shop hired H1-B workers to perform the outsourced work. The net
overall effect appears to be that H1B workers replaced Disney IT workers.

If you look at the corporate level: Disney didn't hire any H1-B workers as
part of the restructuring, ergo Disney didn't replace existing jobs with H1-B
workers. The contracting firm didn't fire anyone, ergo the contracting firm
didn't replace existing jobs with H1-B workers. But apparently nobody is
accountable for the overall effect.

~~~
tjradcliffe
Disney and the contracting firm are both corporations.

Corporations do not exist in free markets. They are a product of nothing but
legislative intervention in the free market in the form of the Companies Act
(the reformed version of the 1850's) and its descendents around the world.
Without this interference in the marketplace, corporations in the modern sense
cannot and did not exist.

The only reason this kind of situation can arise is because of the nature of
corporate relationships, in which the actions of individuals are hidden behind
the collective mask of corporate ownership. Otherwise, it would be, "Jane
fired Fred from America and replaced him with Amir from India" and the locus
of effect would be undeniable.

It follows from this that the lawmakers who intervened in the free market to
create the corporate form of collective organization are--or ought to be--held
responsible for the overall effect of corporate behaviour. The likely
corrective action, as our Libertarian friends tell us, is further intervention
in the free market in the form of regulation on this sort of behaviour.

------
suprgeek
What Disney has done is certainly reprehensible but fully legal (given the
"contractor" loophole in the H1-B program). However the backlash is focusing
on the "them foreigners taking our Jobs" aspect a bit too much.

What should be troubling is the fact that someone in the Executive Suite
contracted out important IT functions (such as these jobs were I am assuming).

If the CIO/CTO etc are perfectly wiling to disrupt core functions to shave off
some costs - you have to wonder about the strategic abilities of these highly
paid morons who cannot think past the next quarter.

That is the real outrage - whether those outsourced jobs are done by H1-Bs (or
even possibly L1-Bs who are much more prone to abuse) is the minor part of the
story.

~~~
prostoalex
Disney is not an IT company, and IT is not their core competency. Why
shouldn't they outsource it like any other business function?

~~~
suprgeek
>>Disney is not an IT company, and IT is not their core competency

Given the crucial role IT plays in nearly all Disney enterprises (TV, Movies,
theme parks, etc) they better make IT one of their core competencies.

~~~
prostoalex
The entity in question is the theme parks operator, not all IT departments
across all Disney entities.

Time will tell if Six Flags, Universal or SeaWorld would lock in significant
advantages by having access to higher quality IT, while Disneyland/Disneyworld
ticket sales would decline due to inferior IT.

------
codex_irl
Context maybe? [http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/us/in-turnabout-
disney-...](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/us/in-turnabout-disney-
cancels-tech-worker-layoffs.html?referrer&_r=0)

------
jobu
This is a great line:

 _" If you view your staff as a liability, it's more likely a leadership
problem."_

If a company's employees are not an asset, then leadership hasn't done it's
job of either weeding out the bad people or spending enough money to attract
and grow good people.

~~~
harimau
The leadership was able to increase their compensation 42% over the course of
a year last year so, if that's what their focus is for this year, then maybe
they are by cutting these folks, reducing costs, etc for whatever metrics get
them more cash.

------
student123
Yet another xenophobic article. What if disney hired an American contractor
that replaced their old infrastructure with new age docker/cloud/YC-funded
stack and were able to save costs by cutting 250 positions replacing them with
50 pure blooded americans (oh wait and another 10 pround "undocumented"
immigrants). The reality is that this person is on the wrong side of
efficiency argument. And he is just blaming his incompetence on others. I
expect better from HN than to give voice to this xenophobic trash.

~~~
KeithBarrett
No. I have no problem with outsourcing, or foreign labor. I've lead such
efforts myself. I'm not a xenophobe. I've not in favor of scrapping H-1B
Visas. It's easy for you to dismiss it by tossing labels. I'm not even angry
or anti-Disney; I'm smart enough to see it for what it is. I've been in IT and
a developer for a long time. I've seen it all. I didn't know how badly the
H-1B system was being used to create labor forces for the maintenance of
services instead of what it's for - bringing in hard to obtain talent, until I
encountered it. Jobs are being lost to this, highly talented jobs, by the
thousands, and it's not suppose to. It's suppose to augment your staff. Almost
overnight 3/4ths of our office building were speaking a different language.
Even if you don't see any of it that way; do you really think you'd approve if
you had a good review, a raise, and then were told you're being replaced and
you have to train your replacement or they're going to keep the severance
you're entitled to by corporate policies? I don't think anyone sees that as
professional or acceptable.

------
monatron
Can someone provide some context to this post? What happened at Disney?

~~~
anon987
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9653389](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9653389)

The story was flagged/shadowbanned to the 2nd page within an hour of it's
submission despite it being on topic and having 200+ upvotes.

------
zeruch
Having worked in an industry that supported Disney as a client once in my
career, I find that whole firm contemptible, and this behavior doesn't
surprise me at all.

------
dj_doh
There are so many variables at play. Author is looking at it from a narrow
window. I'd not blame him as this affects him personally. That said, what are
some other variables?

(1) ___Polyfill_ __Disney is a global company and their management have to
balance hundred different priorities that includes reducing HR cost. Don 't be
shocked if all of these H1B/L1 replacements are replaced by some highly
automated systems in the next 5-10years.

(2) ___Economics_ __Ask yourself why are you using Uber over local taxi,
Airbnb over Hilton, Target over Wholefoods? Be it corporation or individual,
in all these cases, you are getting pretty much the same service at a reduced
price. It 's not a deal breaker when you are looking at replaceable cogs.

(3) ___Enforcement_ __There are some gray areas. H1Bs should be used where
local resources are difficult to find or not at par with job requirements.
Companies based in Bay Area, NYC, Boston, Austin, Houston and Denver face this
problem day in and day out. I don 't know how this spans out across the
geography.

(4) ___Skills_ __If you are really good and someone who has been diligent
about keeping his skills and knowledge up to date. You should have no problem
finding your next gig. If you have a tendency to take the union mentality.
That 's probably not going to work.

(5) ___Attitude_ __I tried and failed to get a friend 's resume across our
recruiter. He is a former federal software engineer whose best skills read ~
COBOL and SQL. He is living in Bay Area, but refuses to try shops like Hack
Reactor. Never stops blaming foreign workers. Somehow under the illusion that
he has a birthright to that job. Taking your environment for granted is not
wise.

------
stephen-mw
I think the H1B program is great when it works, and I've seen it function
because I've worked with some amazing and talented workers from countries such
as India, Spain, France, etc. I really felt like we nabbed the best people
from those countries. For these engineers, the US should be stapling green
cards to the backs of their pay checks.

The problem here is that this group of workers is clearly being hired only
because they provide a steep discount to local talent. This has nothing to do
with skill, and in fact usually the engineers who take these positions are
low-skilled. Think about it, who else would take a steep pay cut, work
unreasonable hours, and take on a supervisor who threatens deportation on
them?

For every H1B we hire in this category we make it harder to bring and keep a
skilled worker. They don't fit the mould of disposable and cheap labor, so
they don't get sponsorship. They refuse to take a pay cut just because they're
a foreigner, and rightly so.

------
Simulacra
Most has echoed my thoughts on this, but I wanted to jump in to offer this
article from Cheat Sheet. I think it sums up quite well the view of modern
corporations towards their employees. The main point being: If a corporation
can increase their profits by screwing you, then they are more likely than not
to do just that.

"Your Employer Is Not Your Friend, and Young People Know It" By Nikelle
Snader, www.cheatsheet.comView OriginalMay 31st, 2015

[http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/your-employer-isnt-
your-f...](http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/your-employer-isnt-your-friend-
and-millennials-know-it.html/?a=viewall)

------
bayesianhorse
Am I the only one that has any problem with the idea that citizens of a
particular country feel more entitled to well paying jobs than comparably
capable foreigners?

I can understand the feeling, I just can't justify it by reason.

It feels like these workers have more of a problem with the general low
standards of worker's rights and labor protections than with H1B visa
quotas...

~~~
bruceb
Because the citizens and those that came before them have the history of the
building up the country that has fostered a good standard of living, rights,
environmental standards, etc.

It is unsurprising they feel they are more entitled to the benefits than those
outside the country who did not. It is a complex situation but that is the
general gist.

~~~
bayesianhorse
So they have the right to a good life because they always had a good life?

I can understand that such thinking is convenient, but especially those who
are afraid of outsourcing haven't done that much "building" at all. And how
come that in virtually any other regard competition and free enterprise is
enshrined, even to the detriment of poor people and low income workers, but
not when origin is concerned?

For me this entitlement does not follow immediately from some kind of
ancestral rights.

------
curiousDog
I've said this before and I will say it again, programming is an entry level
job. A programming (Application development) career is definitely not
something you want to grow old in (unless you're a rockstar which most of us
aren't). Get an MBA while you can or start your own at a younger age.

------
nvm431
jobvite.com did the same thing. They fired all their white developers and
replaced them with Indians through a third party company. The irony.

------
nova22033
>the financial sector is not known for being innovative in technology

And the hospitality industry is?

------
ixtli
I wonder why he's disabled sharing of the post.

~~~
KeithBarrett
I usually do that when I share something sensitive or extremely personal, at
least for the first day I share it. It forces the conversation with me.

~~~
ixtli
Oh I see. That's an interesting point. I only ask because when I copied the
link into a new post I realized it was the only time I'd ever done that in
years of using G+. In any case, as someone who's never really worked in a very
large organization this post confirmed some of my previous suppositions about
why I'd probably never be happy in one :/

------
nodata
Better screengrab it before it disappears.

~~~
KeithBarrett
It won't disappear. I hate broken links.

