
Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video] - morphics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoTMC-uxJoo
======
fab13n
That's a cute high-tech solution. A simpler one is to put a horizontal bar,
the same height as the tunnel's ceiling, which will physically stop the truck
before causing millions worth of damages. It's often done in France, sometimes
with an early warning: a first arch with chains hanging to the maximal height.
It makes a lot of noise on the truck's top, but won't destroy it.

~~~
evan_
Did you see the truck in the video take out an enormous steel beam that was
presumably attached to the structure of the tunnel in some kind of permanent
way? How would your solution avoid the same fate?

~~~
twistedpair
That beam they took out is called a "sacrificial beam." It was not a
structural support, but was meant to take the impact before any structural
members were damaged. You'll see them on many modern bridges and underpasses.

~~~
wizzard
That's interesting and seems like a good idea, except perhaps it should be
paramount that the 20-ton beam NOT fall on the following cars! That is an
entirely different meaning of "sacrificial"...

~~~
twistedpair
See the videos on 11foot8.com, that beam is a freestanding structure separate
from the bridge solely designed to decapitate trucks.

------
bluedevil2k
It's a really cool idea, but I couldn't help but think they should move the
water stop sign to well BEFORE the million dollar damage point. Some big
trucks would have a hard time seeing the stop sign, reacting to it, slamming
on the brakes, and coming to a complete stop in time before they cause damage
to the overhang and beams.

~~~
Smerity
The advantage with the signs before the final water sign is that they should
be enough for any reasonably alert driver and don't make the environment more
hazardous.

You really want to have the water screen projection, which douses the road
with water, as the last line of defence. Water on the road is likely to make
it far more difficult to stop a large truck like that. Having it earlier could
actually be detrimental to their stopping ability[1].

We're also assuming the unexpected water doesn't cause additional accidents
from all the other vehicles. A wall of water could provoke some quite
irrational reactions. I drive that road on a fairly common basis and even a
small accident there could well result in an expensive pile-up.

[1]: Conjecture

~~~
astrodust
I worked near a train bridge that was constantly being hit by trucks. It was a
near weekly event at times. They installed big, flashing lights and drivers
would still blow through.

~~~
jld
Check out 11foot8's YouTube channel for some great examples of how common this
can be in some places.

<http://www.youtube.com/yovo68> <http://11foot8.com/>

~~~
masklinn
An other fun one is "2m40" (after the tunnel's height, of 7ft10), on the
tunnel de l'etoile in Paris: <http://www.2m40.com/> (in 2009, a truck crashed
into it every 10 days and there were bets on the time the hanging sign would
last)

------
speeder
And I think some people will STILL crash on the tunnel anyway.

I made a arcade game once: www.abril.com.br/blog/campus-
party/2011/01/19/fanatico-por-jogos-leva-seu-proprio-fliperama-para-a-arena/

It has instructions printed on the sides of the screen... It was VERY, VERY,
VERY common to someone ask people around them what a button do (sometimes to
even random passerby people, or for example a couple arrived at the machine,
and the guy would start to play and ask stuff to his girlfriend), and then the
asked either looked confused, or pointed to the instructions, and the people
asking would behave surprised, confused and shamed.

Why people ignored the instructions and asked for example their girlfriends,
random people and so on instead?

Why people see a huge sign blocking the way to a ATM saying it is out of
order, they remove the sign from the way and attempt to use it anyway?

~~~
dustingetz
its because most instructions are unhelpful and a waste time to read, so we're
conditioned to ignore them.

~~~
xradionut
Even when you make great, easy to understand documetation, people are fucking
lazy. That fact keeps the most of people in our support department employed.

~~~
chokma
An important customer once told me "Yes, I have read about the manual, but it
is so much easier to call you." - the problem with lazy customers is that they
will make false assumptions about what the software does (everyone will
probably do this at one time, but not reading the manual / instructions is
much more dangerous).

She also refused to upgrade from a 15" monitor to a larger model, so we had to
keep the screen layout in accordance with her outdated screen format. (The
cost of a new screen would have been negligible compared to the profits).

------
jere
You might think that trucks ignoring multiple, obvious flashing warning signs
wouldn't be that common. This hilarious video proves otherwise:

[http://gizmodo.com/5955244/watch-this-bridge-destroying-
doze...](http://gizmodo.com/5955244/watch-this-bridge-destroying-dozens-of-
trucks-and-buses)

~~~
VLM
"multiple, obvious flashing warning signs wouldn't be that common."

Unfortunately they are way too common. Did you know there's wild animals
living outdoors and they cross roads? 75 miles away a divorced family is
having a custody dispute so here's abduction alert #243 for the year as a
punishment from one parent to the other? There's a terrorist hiding behind
every tree stump? Next month some roadwork is planned although nothing so far
has been done other than put up the warning sign and barrels and collect
higher traffic ticket fees? Six months ago a long term road work lane closure
happened so everyday commuters now completely ignore a giant bright flashing
warning that lanes have changed? The bright flashing overhead sign reports
that 30 miles away where you aren't even going, there is a traffic jam? This
is before I even get started on the billboard advertisements designed to
distract you from driving.

If everything's an emergency, then nothing is an emergency. Including,
unfortunately, bridge height.

~~~
HarryHirsch
These yellow flashing signs are useless, as you say, but you'd think that
drivers are conditioned to obey traffic lights, and most every tunnel in
existence - including the one in Sydney - has these red and green lights up
top that allows the tunnel crew to block lanes individually. I couldn't tell
why truckers see these and _still_ blow through them.

------
ck2
Put a metal sign on a hinge that is at the too-tall height several hundred
feet in front of the tunnel.

When they hit it, they will definitely stop, and replacing the sign is a
fraction of the cost of the water sign, which they can drive through anyway.

~~~
TranceMan
> When they hit it, they will definitely stop, and replacing the sign is a
> fraction of the cost of the water sign

Other comments seem to suggest this doesn't work [Low bars etc..] I am not
sure how large a problem this is [No audio on vid :(] Asking people to stop
sharply on a suddenly wet road doesn't seem an ideal solution.

I think an addition would be to charge the drivers the cost of repair, this is
not a tax on stupidity - it is a lesson in taking responsibility in driving an
extra-ordinary sized vehicle on a public road.

Thankfully my driving instructor knew the importance of taking
_responsibility_ and understanding what that means _before_ you get behind the
wheel.

~~~
larrys
"I think an addition would be to charge the drivers the cost of repair"

The cost of a repair to a bridge?

Maybe if the driver's employer is Fedex perhaps but even then the worse case
scenario is the driver looses his job but I'm sure that already happens
regardless of cost impact.

~~~
TranceMan
> The cost of a repair to a bridge?

It was a tunnel ;)

>Maybe if the driver's employer is Fedex perhaps but even then the worse case
scenario is the driver looses his job but I'm sure that already happens
regardless of cost impact.

I don't really want to _punish_ somebody retrospectively for their actions in
this case.

If my family and I were to be behind this over-sized vehicle at this time - I
would think probably think much different.

------
eric_the_read
The first three or four times I read this post title, it made no sense at all
to me. It might as well have read "Sydney tunnel correct horse battery
staple". Once I clicked through to the article it made sense, but this is one
of the few times I wish the mods had edited the title to match the article.

------
didsomeonesay
low-tech solution: [http://vanishingpoint.at/wordpress/wp-
content/uploads/2010/1...](http://vanishingpoint.at/wordpress/wp-
content/uploads/2010/12/bruecke-warnhinweis.jpg)

(edit: actual image url instead of article)

~~~
to3m
More severe low-tech solution:
[https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=blackwall+tunnel&hl=en&...](https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=blackwall+tunnel&hl=en&ll=51.496467,0.002017&spn=0.003841,0.009645&client=firefox-a&hnear=Blackwall+Tunnel,+London,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.496422,0.002184&panoid=PxV8zQOysXqalADtmkbjSA&cbp=12,359.88,,0,-2.48)

(Blackwall Tunnel, northbound, London)

And again, just in case you missed the scraping sounds the first time:
[https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=blackwall+tunnel&hl=en&...](https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=blackwall+tunnel&hl=en&ll=51.498531,0.001545&spn=0.00384,0.009645&client=firefox-a&hnear=Blackwall+Tunnel,+London,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.498663,0.001526&panoid=1CoD-
kL0V2llH65kjm_5Pw&cbp=12,359.68,,0,-2.48)

(For some reason they don't appear to have anything similar going south...)

~~~
tomarr
There is a diversionary slip road for overheights (OHT) on the approach to
Blackwall after the first pic and before the second. If you've made it to the
second (having ignored a good few red lights), expect to be prosecuted.

------
olefoo
I'm mildly surprised that requiring trucks to file travel plans has not become
a more widespread practice. What with terrorism concerns, and the widespread
use of GPS monitors on trucks it's both feasible and plausible. It seems like
major metro areas could institute a slightly tighter control of large load
vehicles; which could actually benefit from coordinating with traffic control
signals in some cases.

~~~
twistedpair
Since Garmins and other GPS devices have lane information and speed limit
information, you'd think you could punch in your load height and get a route
that worked for it.

Anyone want to go collect 500K bridge heights for the database?

~~~
tomkarlo
Garmin already offers a specific product line for truckers and bus drivers,
that deals with these kinds of issues - beyond vertical clearance you have
issues of turning radius and maximum load.

I've seen them being sold at major truck stops in the US. You're not suppose
to use a normal consumer GPS if you're driving an oversize / multi-axle
vehicle.

<http://sites.garmin.com/dezl/>

------
NDizzle
This article made me take a trip to one of my favorite often-forgotten
websites, <http://11foot8.com/>

------
tibbon
I wish they had this Storrow Drive in Boston. Every year during school move-
in, then uHauls get stuck. What a mess.

~~~
bernardom
Its sister on the other side of the river, Memorial Drive, does:
<http://goo.gl/maps/jdTtx>

But that doesn't stop everyone: <http://bit.ly/10LXX53>
<http://bit.ly/10FmQLa>

------
alan_cx
The drivers cannot be not simply ignoring the signs.

The sign is telling them that later down the road they will absolutely get in
to problems, and get literally stuck. No one would continue with that
certainty of getting stuck or in trouble. On top of that, it cant be repeat
offenders either. Some one who has been there before must have gotten caught
out, one way or another. Its not like drivers on small roads who see a 6ft
width restriction sign, but know through local knowledge that really you can
squeeze 7ft wide car through the lane.

What we have is drivers who do not know the road, and in their minds don't
think the big huge warning signs are meant for them. In their heads they think
it for a another driver on the road in close proximity, even if there is no
sign of one.

The problem with road signs is making it known to specific individuals that
the message is absolutely for them. The brilliant last resort sign absolutely
makes it clear who the message is for.

So the key is to some how make driver know that the message is actually for
them specifically.

~~~
ohkine
I have always felt that this is an issue, as i have personally had many
problems when interpreting road signage.

For example, i once pissed off some builders by following a truck into their
work zone (they were working on a highway lane). The truck had a huge sign on
the back that said 'do not follow into work zone', but how can i possibly know
if i'm following a truck into a work zone without some indication of where the
work zone is? There were no other signs or lights or orange barrels or
anything.

Another example is the way exit ramp signage is written where i live. Highway
signs don't include units of measure when they refer to distance, so the first
few times i saw the sign 'ABC ROAD — 2' i had no idea that it was telling me
that the exit for Abc Road was in 2 MILES, not that i was meant to take Exit
2, which happened to be the very next exit after the sign.

The 11foot8 Web site linked elsewhere in the thread mentions that the rail
bridge has a flashing sign that says 'OVERHEIGHT WHEN FLASHING'. The site
calls this 'pretty good' signage. It makes sense sitting at my computer
reading about it, but i can almost guarantee that if i was seeing that sign
for the first time on the road i would have absolutely no fucking idea what it
was talking about until after i had already crashed into the bridge.

etc.

------
jevinskie
The footage of the 20 ton beam getting knocked out of the tunnel ceiling by a
truck was remarkable. I hope there were no injuries!

~~~
pavel_lishin
I'm surprised a truck was able to knock it down. A 20 ton beam sounds like
something that's rather important, I figured it would be attached fairly
securely.

~~~
sp332
Well if the common use-case is for force to come from the top, they probably
didn't optimize for the case of lots of force coming from the side.

------
josh_fyi
Why not have a plastic flap hang down and thwack the top of the too-tall
truck?

Next, if that's ignored, a plywood barricade hanging down: Better some
splintered plywood than a jammed tunnel.

~~~
Supermighty
And lastly a large flashing sign, or water sign, saying there is tire damage
up ahead. Then have tire damage spikes come out of the road. It's the drivers
responsibility to not damage the tunnel or bridge. Better to damage some cheap
tires on a truck than the tunnel.

~~~
sp332
That's not a good idea. Tire damage reduces control of a multi-ton vehicle in
the middle of traffic, and vastly increases the amount of time it will take to
get the vehicle back out. Even the flying rubber tire parts have huge amounts
of energy and can damage nearby cars or even kill people.

~~~
Supermighty
The trick then is to have something negative happen before the tunnel that
isn't so dangerous to other drivers.

------
gojomo
Eventually the tunnels will have "soft walls" which send large trucks a
remote-braking command if collision seems likely... and the trucks themselves
collision-avoidance radar. And soon after that all the trucks will be self-
driving.

~~~
jlgreco
This would make _Speed_ interesting.

------
joyeuse6701
It was cool seeing it in action (I wonder who thought of it, and got passed
the bureaucracy to make it happen). I wonder whether they considered industry
standard truck height when building that tunnel.

~~~
kamjam
If anyone was at the London 2012 Olympics then they may have seen this:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwNTczEIaDI>

They may well have these in many other places of course, I thought it was dead
cool.

~~~
peterkelly
When I'm rich I'm going to build an RSS reader that works like this

------
mherdeg
Perhaps they need more cowbells:
[http://runningahospital.blogspot.com/2013/02/why-bus-
crashed...](http://runningahospital.blogspot.com/2013/02/why-bus-crashed.html)

------
ww520
This is a very innovative idea. I have seen those water displays shown in the
malls for fun. This is a very cool application of a fun technique to save
lives and property damages.

------
marze
This is the same problem as getting pilots to not land on aircraft carriers
with their landing gear up. I've heard they station a guy with a flare gun as
a final notification, but sometimes the pilot lands anyhow.

This idea could be used on an aircraft carrier, if the water was sprayed up
from below.

I think it would be interesting to try a projection of a scary face, or even a
non-scary face, or a video of a crowd of people.

------
jonchang
Strange that they didn't just install a huge metal bar in front of the tunnel,
like in this video (11 foot 8, the "toughest bridge in the world"):

<http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c0_1351184890>

------
EGreg
Why not just have those things which actually hang down and hit the top of
your truck showing you that you're too tall?

As for that water sign ... why don't they put it further back and have a way
for offending vehicles to exit in front of it? Am I missing something?

~~~
dragonwriter
> As for that water sign ... why don't they put it further back and have a way
> for offending vehicles to exit in front of it? Am I missing something?

The projected-onto-water sign relies, for visibility, on the fact that is in
front of a tunnel that is dark (hence why the lights near the entrance shut
down when it activates), so it wouldn't work farther back; it also makes the
road wet and incrementally more dangerous for all drivers, which is why it
makes sense for the more normal insistent flashing signs, etc., to be placed
farther back and the water sign to be a last resort even before considering
visibility issues.

~~~
EGreg
Okay, well why don't the progressively more dire warnings include stuff that
dangles from the sign and causes the truck driver to hear a big rattling sound
on his roof?

Not this far though:
[http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/10/durha...](http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/10/durhams-
bridge-death-will-decapitate-any-tall-truck/3707/)

------
dhughes
I recall seeing a sign on a low tunnel in NY (?) that had something like "15
feet We mean it!"

edit: I'm not from NY I Googled and see it is the Holland tunnel which has the
sign 12'6" (but it's actually 13') and We mean it.

------
leeoniya
ironically, the water on the road makes it that much more difficult to stop

~~~
obituary_latte
ironically, physics would preclude an oversized truck from reaching the wet
pavement.

~~~
rz2k
It has carefully designed overhead friction surfaces?

------
zowch
My question is: Once the truck is stopped in front of the sign, presumably
with traffic backed up behind it...how do they get it out?

------
NamTaf
A lot of people seem to be struggling to understand why this solution is
needed in place of {big metal bar, hanging chains, flashing signs above road,
etc.} and why drivers seem to act counter to logic and common sense by
ignoring warnings and so ending up in situations where they're stuck and cause
damage to their truck or load.

It's as simple as this: signs around the edge of your field of vision are far
less noticeable than signs directly in the centre of your field of vision.
Signs around the edge are also far more common than signs directly in the
middle of the road. Common events (such as these signs whizzing past) breed
complacency and it's a fundamental tenant of workplace health and safety that
some of the biggest risk events are not those that are inherently risky or
difficult, but those that are performed so frequently that the practitioners
become lazy with complacency (example: smacking yourself in the face and
knocking your teeth out when undoing a tight bolt because you're pulling the
spanner towards you). Driving is such a repetitive task that said complacency
is incredibly high as a result, which explains all kinds of road phenomenon
that you'll witness on a daily basis and wonder 'what the HELL was that idiot
thinking?!?'.

In the rail industry, level crossing incidents are way too common. I recall
one several years ago that killed the two train drivers when a B-double ran a
crossing and ripped the oncoming train right off the tracks when the train ran
in to the trailer of the B-double. The report ([1] specifically sections 2.3.7
and 2.3.8 starting PDF page 72. Fascinating reading about human factors of
accidents if you're in to that) made it very clear that the truck driver
failed to see the flashing lights and associated signage alerting that a train
was coming. As a result, he failed to stop. Importantly, it notes that it is
entirely possible to miss major changes to your environment (big flashing
signs, in the tunnel case) if your attention is elsewhere.

Couple that with the fact that driving long distances for extended periods can
be almost hypnotic, especially at night and when fatigued. Driving becomes
almost automatic. Ever driven a long distance and realised you don't actually
remember specifics of the journey? Yeh. These guys are going to be driving at
night (due to being in the middle of a major city) where lights from
billboards, etc. are surrounding their field of view. It's like driving
through a star trek warp speed tunnel with lights flashing past your field of
view constantly. That's hypnotic and you zone out as a result. As such, the
driver's attention levels are pretty much nil and no low-hanging beam is going
to snap him back to reality.

By throwing something completely different directly in the field of vision,
the driver is immediately snapped back to reality in a big way. Your attention
is (usually) mostly focused on the road in front of you when you're driving,
even when you're distracted. Furthering the extremity of the reality check is
that it's a gigantic 'STOP' sign - not just the word stop, but the word stop
in the big red hexagonal sign. The sign is designed to provoke a response by
its shape and colour (we're conditioned to hold that meaning to said shape and
colour) and throwing it immediately in front of the driver will grab their
attention in a way that bars and chains and all that simply will not.

In summary, by using a sign directly in front of the driver rather than
through some secondary communications medium (e.g.: banging on the roof of the
vehicle), the likelihood of detection and subsequent reaction is far higher.
It will succeed where other mechanisms of alerting will fail. Water is used
because it's convenient, doesn't cause lasting damage/debris and can be
deployed very quickly. For the benefit such a design brings (avoiding blocking
just about the biggest express road thoroughfare in Australia's largest city),
the upfront cost is negligible and is easily justified over cheaper but less
effective alternatives.

[1]:
[http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/safetyre...](http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/safetyreports/Pdf_rail_safety_investigation_qt2459_complete.pdf)

~~~
ju2tin
fundamental tenet

------
marban
I'm somewhat more impressed by this water screen than the iphone's retina
display.

~~~
ricardobeat
Water screens are very simple (and old) tech. It's just a perforated tube and
a projector. This is much more interesting:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gusJeslMbLc>, but still a weekend project, not
billion-dollar research :)

~~~
mxfh
There was the bit.fall project (ca. 2005)
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AICq53U3dl8> by Julius Popp

and before that Stephen Pevnick's Graphical Waterfalls® (1977)
<http://www.pevnickdesign.com/gwhtml/history.html>

------
blinkingled
They could get more creative and put up a projection of Steve Irwin with
crocodile in hand, going "Crikey. An oversized vehicle. Watch out boys and
girls - DANGER! DANGER!!".

------
S_A_P
What if it was a convertible truck??

~~~
astrodust
It'll end up convertible if it wasn't before.

Crashing into a bridge like that can peel the top off like it was hit with a
can-opener.

~~~
wiredfool
Double decker buses too.

------
meatsock
great article but terrible slug -- headline reads like a zippy the pinhead
punchline.

------
jayferd
The video is down :(

------
mikeleung
why not just have a toll gate come down ?

------
darkstar999
Nice blog spam. A youtube video with no article.

------
gambiting
Or they could you know....just build a tunnel big enough to fir every vehicle
size? I don't think this problem exists in the UK, I've driven through many
different tunnels and they will accept any vehicle size.

~~~
preinheimer
Really? "any vehicle size"?

Including trucks carrying around 40ft tall construction equipment (like
cranes) on flatbeds? What about those huge wind-turbine pieces?

You can't plan for "any", especially with shrinking government budgets
globally. You plan for "most", and work to ensure the remainder has some sort
of possible route.

~~~
gambiting
I knew somebody was going to point out that oversized vehicles won't fit. For
your knowledge, these vehicles are not normally legal to drive(in the EU),
they need to have special permissions, display "oversized" badge on the back
and on the front, but most importantly, they need to have their route planned
and approved days in advance from actually driving anywhere. So none of these
vehicles would ever crash into a tunnel, because such a route would not be
approved in the first place.

By "any" I mean any of the sizes approved for legal road use, and there is not
many of them. Trailers can only be of a certain height and width, and most
tunnels are built to accomodate for those dimensions. And usually, tunnels are
built to either make the route shorter, or redirect traffic out of the city.
So if the biggest vehicles on the road cannot use them, and have to go through
the city, then it defeats the point of building the tunnel altogether.

~~~
preinheimer
Cool, clearly Australia is a bit different.

------
aashaykumar92
What a neat idea! But if these trucks are PURPOSEFULLY breaking the laws and
continuing to go through the tunnel, I am not sure that this solution will
hold up for too long; after all, the clever truck drivers will know it is a
mere illusion.

Furthermore, instead of a water screen, wouldn't a brick screen be more
effective? Personally, I wouldn't mind going through water nearly as much as I
would be running into a brick wall. Nonetheless, as I said before, a really
neat idea and definitely a solution for some instances--limitations need to be
addressed though.

~~~
Kluny
The drivers aren't doing it purposely. They have been driving for 16 hours,
are in an unfamiliar city, and are almost asleep at the wheel.

~~~
gsnedders
16 hours!? Wow. The EU has a legal maximum of 10 hours per day — and that's
only allowed twice a week, ordinarily 9 hours, with at least 45 minutes break
every 45 minutes.

~~~
acqq
And the trucks are controlled, still drivers manage to trick the regulators:
"I'll drive your shift now you'll get mine once" etc.

