

Ask HN: Review my startup - karjaluoto
http://www.makefive.com

======
apsurd
If you haven't researched this company already ....
<http://www.rateitall.com/>

Had a friend interning there this summer. The business model is essentially
exactly what you guys are going after. I think it's a pretty smart model
actually, but you'll have to work out how your product stands out from theirs.

On a side note, I think the "if you have a brain that is" comment is too
condescending for me. I think HN users will understand that humor but you are
going after commonfolk! Or maybe I'm just reading into it too much ..eh!

~~~
vizard
I too agree with the "if you have a brain that is" being too condescending.
You have to note that humor is also culturally very specific and varies across
demographics. What you think of humor may not always work. (I, for example,
did not find it in good taste though I did understand that it was intended to
be humorous).

~~~
karjaluoto
Point taken--we're often a little too casual with our remarks and approach.
Could be something for us to be a little more careful with.

------
adamdoupe
The featured five on the homepage moves way too fast. It switched when I was
still reading.

Beyond that, interesting site. Good luck!

~~~
karjaluoto
Thanks--we'll look at slowing that down a notch! :-)

------
ruddzw
Top N lists get submitted to digg and reddit all the time. The comments for
those are always filled with people hating on top N lists, but they wouldn't
get to the front page without people enjoying them. I think a site like this
could go far in terms of popularity. But the lists I always found MOST
interesting had a lot of text supporting each item. I'd make sure that this is
possible for people to really get what they want out of a top N list, more
than needing to click on an item to get a description.

Also, maybe something about the ordering of the lists. All the lists I've seen
so far go 1,2,3,4,5, and then runners up. What about 5,4,3,2,1? Kind of builds
up the suspense. :) I might just not have looked enough about this one,
though.

~~~
karjaluoto
Agreed. I think it's something to do with the definitive seeming nature of
lists, coupled with the need to keep them succinct that's appealing to many.
(That being said, I'm of the generation that was excited to watch the top 20
countdown on MTV in the eighties.) We too would like to see more content on
the pages, in part to add to how much readers can get from a topic;
additionally, it would be great to get the density up for SEO.

The challenge for us is to find a way to collect this content, while
appreciating the fact that many users don't want to do much more than click a
single button. (I still appreciate what the folks at “Hot or Not” did by
reducing the entire site to a one click navigation system.)

As such, our first approach was to reduce the barriers to entry, by cutting
things out. In fact, our first iterations of the site had relatively
exhaustive voting and content options. We found that most people avoided
voting altogether as a result, or skipped adding the content. As such, we kept
removing things and refining them until we found that people felt it was easy
to click on something. (It seems that once the user now partakes in even a
single list, they find that it relatively easy and as such start to get
involved in others.)

We're now looking at how to include extended content, and our approach is to
center this on the individual. They can list their thoughts on selections, and
then maintain an area for themselves alone. As such, they can make relatively
personal explanations for their selections, while still being able to include
the community in their list. (We're hoping to roll this out early next week.)

We're looking at retooling our points system in tandem with this roll-out. In
our minds, it would seem appropriate to reward those who add more content and
thoughtful reviews of things. In the meanwhile, this leads us to eventually
adding local components that would allow for more in-depth reviews of
restaurants and the like.

So much to do!

------
tptacek
What problem does this thing solve that I would pay money to have solved?

~~~
karjaluoto
1\. It gives people a place for dialogue Lists allow for a quick way to
exchange ideas. You can skim a topic, make your picks, and then debate with
others. It's a fun way to get a discussion going.

2\. It helps brands reach their audience We can stitch brands and advertising
into the site in ways that connect with interested parties. (i.e. Dell could
sponsor the Technology category for a month and build thought provoking
contests around their brand.)

------
Brushfire
Looks like a cool project.

What's your business model? Ads?

~~~
karjaluoto
That's our thought right now. We're really concentrating on just getting users
for the time being. Later, we're hoping to sell branded placement and
sponsorships for companies who want connect with specific groups.

------
asmosoinio
Not working for me. I am trying to access it from the Philippines so it can be
just me though. Other websites working fine at the moment.

~~~
shelkie
Sorry to hear that. If you have a moment, please give it another try and let
me know if you run into trouble again. Be great to know if we're are having
access problems from certain locations.

~~~
asmosoinio
Retried now, and did once got the header of the page down. After that failed
again.

------
Dilpil
Looks like a fun social site, seems more like a possible facebook application
than its own site though.

~~~
karjaluoto
We do have a facebook app as well. It's still pretty basic, but you can find
it here: <http://www.facebook.com/applications/MakeFive/16756537785>

------
byrneseyeview
<http://www.5ives.com/> for the masses.

~~~
karjaluoto
I like those. I wish we could get him on MakeFive as a celebrity list maker.
:-)

------
thomasmallen
To me, it's on the boring side...doesn't have much on a webforum.

~~~
karjaluoto
It's interesting that you say that. It seems that people who use it tend to
get rather addicted, with some online for eight-hour stretches and such. That
being said, it could be that the fun of it doesn't translate that well on a
first glance yet.

One thing that we're working on aggressively is the ability for users to
showcase specific lists they've created as a bigger part of their profile. Our
feeling is that this may help us better appeal to the individual who likes to
broadcast what they think. (i.e. blog as personal diary, Twitter for brief
snippets, MakeFive as a way to list all of the things they love/hate, etc.)

Are there specific things that turned you off about the site?

~~~
thomasmallen
I prefer discussion and elaboration to simple lists, so a site that shares
abbreviated opinions to me is a poor man's forum. Again, this applies to me
only, and I know that the internet by its breadth fosters simple, microscopic
content.

~~~
karjaluoto
I agree with you and I feel that this is something that we haven’t quite
remedied yet.

The nice part with the brief lists is that it allows almost anyone an easy
entry point to a discussion. Plus, the nature of these list forces users to
condense their choices, which we feel is helpful. (It does make the site nice
to browse and information easy to digest.)

But as I noted, we do recognize the need to make the dialogue more involved.
The element that we’re adding next week asks users to explain why they made
their selections, which we’re hoping adds to the amount of content as well as
the depth of conversation.

For some this won’t appeal at all; however, for people as obsessive and
particular as me, it will be nice to compile my list of the best
entrepreneurial books I’ve ever read, alongside extended notes on why I
enjoyed them. :-)

------
ohxten
Bill O'Reilly is the 3rd most evil American?

Heh heh heh...

~~~
karjaluoto
Glad to see that he beat out the E-Harmony Pitch Guy. ;-)

------
pclark
\- that pink flicking slideshow makes me feel rather sick

~~~
karjaluoto
It's certainly a powerful element. We toyed with toning it down a little, but
reasoned that most would only be on the homepage for a moment. (It doesn't
recur throughout the site.)

------
myoung8
i don't think you can call this a "startup."

~~~
karjaluoto
How so?

------
eli_s
Isn't every other submission to reddit or digg a top 5/10/20 list already?

From what I can see people visit the list and discuss on reddit/digg.

~~~
karjaluoto
I don’t think that would necessarily be a bad thing. In fact, we’re pretty
interested in seeing how we can tie MakeFive into other sites. If it turns out
that the content our users create gets discussed on Digg/Reddit, or another
site for that matter, all the better. (That just means more traffic to
MakeFive, which makes us happy!)

