
BMW I8: Reviewing the Car of Tomorrow - kelvinblade
http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/29/bmw-i8-reviewing-the-car-of-tomorrow/
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freerobby
"Car of Tomorrow." LOL.

It's less functional, spacious and performant than a much safer all-electric
car you can buy today for less money. It has neither DC fast charging
capability nor enough electric range to go anywhere reliably (22 EPA miles in
ideal conditions). It has all the maintenance hassles and costs of a
traditional ICE plus whatever they are for BMW's electric technology.

The i8 is an old-school gas guzzling supercar that happens to have a battery
inside it.

~~~
greglindahl
Note also that the i8's performance in all-electric mode is very weak: the
electric motor is only 131hp, which is _smaller_ than the i3's 170hp electric
motor.

It's hard to imagine a significant fraction of i8 buyers using it as an all-
electric commuter, like the Chevy Volt or other plug-in hybrids are used.

(edit: added some numbers)

~~~
lafar6502
With these parameters? It's not a commuter. It's rather a killer for electric
vehicles, with the capability to go over 100 mpg. Think how far it could go
with 50 liter tank - you'd have to fully charge your Tesla 5-6 times to cover
same distance and spend a week just staring at the battery level indicator
slowly going up. And it doesn't have any of electric vehicle pains - idle
battery drain, 'vampire load' problems, performance decrease in cold or hot
weather, and completely running out of fuel doesn't cost you 40k battery
replacement. Electric vehicles are good only for commute and they take your
freedom instead of giving it.

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gweinberg
Anyone else think deliberately pumping noise into the car is mindbogglingly
stupid?

~~~
jdietrich
Most manufacturers do it. Consumer perceptions of power, performance and
prestige are strongly influenced by engine noise. Modern turbocharged engines
are much more efficient, but substantially quieter than naturally aspirated
engines. A turbocharged I4 can produce just as much power as a naturally
aspirated V8, but it doesn't sound as powerful.

Engine noise masks other mechanical noise from the suspension, brakes and
gearbox; Those noises are often unsettling, giving a perception of poor build
quality or mechanical defects. Artificial noise can mask those sounds, without
the greater cost and weight of acoustic insulation.

I don't like the idea, but the marketing logic is perfectly sound.

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/americas-
best...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/americas-best-selling-
cars-and-trucks-are-built-on-lies-the-rise-of-fake-engine-
noise/2015/01/21/6db09a10-a0ba-11e4-b146-577832eafcb4_story.html)

~~~
fein
> A turbocharged I4 can produce just as much power as a naturally aspirated
> V8, but it doesn't sound as powerful.

Well, yes, you can make a 400HP 4 cyl turbo, but you wont have the same
response as an NA v8. It's going to take some time to spool the turbo, and you
wont have on call power. The torque curve will also look insane. Engines that
perform like this don't last very long.

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jitl

      > 0-60 in 4.4 seconds
    

Why didn't BMW go full electric? The Tesla Model S P85D can do 0-60 in 3.2
seconds, costs less, and can carry a whole family. It isn't quite as sexy, but
it's close.

~~~
Shivetya
because they technology isn't ready.

I am forever amazed that people think an eighty thousand dollar plus car that
barely does more than two hundred miles per charge is some kind of
breakthrough.

Its more of a marketing masterpiece than much else. If there were a
sustainable market for these cars the big guys would have been all over it.
Color me impressed if he delivers that 3 before 2018. Can't even get the X out
on time and its just a lumpy S.

What makes the i8 interesting is that it looks futuristic and its use of
carbon fiber. However the i3 is likely the better candidate as its use at the
price point it has is more of the story than the fact it has a battery

~~~
pslam
> I am forever amazed that people think an eighty thousand dollar plus car
> that barely does more than two hundred miles per charge is some kind of
> breakthrough.

It's a no-compromise, all-electric luxury car which absolutely replaces an ICE
car for every day use. It's priced similarly to other large, luxury,
performance vehicles. It's mass-market and sold in many countries. You can,
today, buy this. I don't understand how you can pass this off as not a
breakthrough.

~~~
threeseed
The point is that it can't replace an ICE for most of the world. Every country
is not like the US with a giant supercharger network. So range is critical.

And Tesla isn't sold in "many" countries. It's an insignificant fraction of a
typical car manufacturer.

~~~
organsnyder
My daily commute is under 10 miles round-trip. With errands, I occasionally do
20-30 miles. If I had an electric and needed to go on a longer trip, I could
either borrow my wife's car or rent an ICE vehicle. I take road trips longer
than 200 miles very rarely.

Yes, I realize that some people do have longer commutes than me. But very few
people commute more than 200 miles per day.

Of course, this does limit all-electric vehicles to those that can afford a
second vehicle or a rental when the need arises. But I don't think anyone is
arguing that electric vehicles have reached the point of being affordable to
anyone but the well-off.

~~~
gambiting
The length of the commute is not a problem. While charging from a regular 230V
outlet(standard here in EU) you only add 8 miles of range per every hour of
charging. If I had it I would not be able to recharge during the night what I
drove out during the day. Unless I installed a more powerful charger....which
I can't fit where I live. That's my problem with that car.

~~~
greglindahl
Let's say that you park at home 10 hours a day every day, and 10 extra hours
over the weekend. That means you can drive 80 miles per day and 8*80=640 miles
per week with no problems. The fraction of drivers who drive more than this is
pretty small.

I can easily imagine that a few drivers drive more than this. Why do you think
that's important for the overall success of electric cars?

~~~
gambiting
Because if I can only recharge 80 miles of range every night then the
effective range I can cover daily is 80 miles,not 250 miles you can do on a
full battery. And please, even if my work commute is only 50 miles(25 each
way) then it's very common that by driving to the shops or the gym in the
afternoon I will make more than 80,even if my work commute is not that long.
And yeah, vast majority of people will have a work commute shorter than 80
miles,but most people drive to other places than work too. It becomes pretty
ridiculous if I had to say to my girlfriend "sorry honey, we won't be able to
go and see your mother in the afternoon,because the car won't recharge enough
overnight for me to go to work tomorrow". It's a major problem - they
absolutely have to charge faster to be usable, I have no other complaints
about electric cars other than this.

~~~
greglindahl
If you personally drive close to 80 miles/day on average, you're driving twice
what the average driver drives. Work it out for someone who averages only 40
miles a day. It's not interesting that a small number of drivers drive a lot!

BTW there are fast chargers, check out CHAdeMO and the Tesla Supercharger.

~~~
gambiting
>>BTW there are fast chargers, check out CHAdeMO and the Tesla Supercharger.

I know, but like I've said: >>Unless I installed a more powerful
charger....which I can't fit where I live.

~~~
greglindahl
I've been attempting to talk about the general case, not your personal
situation. It's not interesting or a surprise that electric cars are not for
everyone.

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woodpanel
More convincing than the Model S.* At least for me:

I have been playing around with buying a Tesla S for a while. Maybe from day
one of them being available. But then the feature set of the Model X got
released. And I was disappointed. About Tesla and about me.

Driving rentals in the luxury car segment for the last 3 years installed a
pretty stubborn view of what features I think are worth their money.

The Model X features were praised especially by my peer group (like hacker
news readers) and indeed, a lot of those features are worth their money. The
problem is, those features are pretty standard in those rentals I was driving.

I got disappointed because I fell prey to the techie-bias, that completely
ignores the fact that the Tesla S lacks features which are standard in cars
half the price. Again, this car is starting at 70k $. Take a 3 Series BMW
Sedan, customize it until it costs the same - besides the Model S's
acceleration and low-to-no-noise there is absolutely nothing were the BMW is
not superior or at least on pair.

Which got me thinking about everything Tesla does get right: A Jobs-like
persona as part of their marketing and a history of taking bold risks is
creating a brand that enables them to take a midsize-quality car and sell it
as a luxury one.

* Realizing how biased I was towards reality made me remember how personal we deem the decision of buying which car. I think the fact, that a lot of the first comments made here tried to dismantle the i8 as a weak attack on the Model S just proves my point :-)

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simi_
Reviewing the car of tomorrow... 2 months late.

Here are some great reviews of the i8:

* /DRIVE (Chris Harris): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5I6xuhNgVg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5I6xuhNgVg)

* Car Buyer (lovely channel): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjB3tDIhl6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjB3tDIhl6g)

* Car Throttle: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkUQY1Hxnu0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkUQY1Hxnu0)

* Evo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ54QP8VSvw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ54QP8VSvw)

* The Verge: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ea8_CNdJ54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ea8_CNdJ54)

My personal take, as a self-proclaimed car connoisseur, and BMW fanboi? It's
my favourite car, but if I had €100k+ to spare I wouldn't buy one now, due to
the iPhone effect. I'm 99% sure the next version will be way more polished.
Not saying it's not an amazing car at the moment, but if there are plenty of
minor quirks that will most likely go away in subsequent versions once
customers complain.

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bhauer
The embedded 911 in the rear cannot be unseen.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2fhjte/this_is_a_bmw_i...](http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2fhjte/this_is_a_bmw_i8_it_looks_like_its_trying_to_shit/)

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gambiting
Why would you buy a car that you can't get out of in a car park? I've seen one
driving around here in UK - and British car parks are notoriously small - if
you park alongside another car I guarantee you won't be able to get out
without crawling out of it.

~~~
burger_moon
Because if you're buying this car you can afford to valet it.

~~~
gambiting
I'm sorry,but this is such a nonsense argument. This car is "just" slightly
below 100k pounds. That's not Rolls-Royce or McLaren territory. That's the
same price as Range Rover Vogue, Mercedes S-Klasse or Audi A8, of which there
are thousands of(at least here in UK), most driven not by chauffeurs with
their own valets,but with people who actually bought them(or their spouses).
The difference is that there is absolutely no problem with driving that Range
Rover to the shops. Or to the gym. Or to work. You can park it anywhere and
get out of it easily. But meanwhile, doors on that BMW? It's not about price -
it's just stupid and impractical, plain and simple. And I would expect more
than this German company.

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issa
This struck me as hilariously outdated. Tesla puts this car to shame.

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adwf
Yeah, I've never understood the raving about the i8. I get that it's one of
the first major performance efforts of a major car manufacturer, but it really
isn't that great when you compare it to a Tesla.

Compare it to the P85D; you get 23 miles of electric vs 253, you get 0-60 in
4.4s vs 3.1, you're still dependent on gas, plus it costs a heck of a lot more
to buy +~$30,000. Although the total range is 330mi for the BMW, it's still
not exactly mind blowingly better than the Tesla.

If I was buying electric, I'd personally want to go all in.

The only thing going for it is that it actually looks like a cool sports car
where the Tesla does not.

EDIT: Note that the one thing this article does _not_ do, is compare it to a
Tesla. I think the BMW marketing people must be avoiding that comparison ;)

~~~
issa
That's the funniest thing about the article. It completely avoids the all-
electric 800 pound gorilla in the room.

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650REDHAIR
i8 looks great.

That's about it.

