
“One Damn Slide After Another”: PowerPoint at Every Occasion for Speech (2016) - panic
http://computationalculture.net/2016/01/11/one-damn-slide-after-another-powerpoint-at-every-occasion-for-speech/
======
twic
The best-constructed talk i ever saw as as scientist was by a medic who
considered himself far too busy and important to spend time mucking around
with Powerpoint. The only slides he had were figures of his results -
photomicrographs of tissue, graphs of drug effects, etc - probably lifted from
a paper in preparation, and so probably done by his graduate students anyway.
This meant that there were only a handful of slides, so very few distracting
transitions to distract from his talking, and the screen was always full of
important content.

Needless to say, that this guy's combination of laziness and arrogance had led
to him to have a much better presentation than me with much less effort left
me _absolutely furious_.

~~~
hkmurakami
Q - medic = doctor in British(?) Terminology?

~~~
twic
Yes. Specifically one who practices medicine rather than surgery (who would be
a surgeon).

This guy was a consultant, ie a very senior doctor, and got to do research as
a sideline. If the context had been clearer, i would have said "a consultant",
but on HN that could mean anything!

I think in the US such people might be called "internists", which is also a
weird and confusing term in its own way.

------
11thEarlOfMar
Every time I sit down to work on a presentation, I intentionally recall
Cristian's retort [0]:

"We used a helium neon laser, captured its phase shift with a photo sensor,
and manually corrected by 30 percent to account for the index of refraction,"
Cristian answered rapidly, keyed up on adrenaline. Cameron had peppered them
with questions on the drive to Santa Barbara, and Cristian was ready.

Swean raised a bushy, graying eyebrow. He asked about motor speed, and Lorenzo
sketched out their combination of controllers and spike relays. Oscar answered
the question about signal interference in the tether by describing how they'd
experimented with a 15-meter cable before jumping up to one that was 33
meters.

"You're very comfortable with the metric system," Swean observed.

"I grew up in Mexico, sir," Oscar said.

Swean nodded. He eyed their rudimentary flip chart.

"Why don't you have a PowerPoint display?" he asked.

"PowerPoint is a distraction," Cristian replied. "People use it when they
don't know what to say."

"And you know what to say?"

"Yes, sir."

[0] [https://www.wired.com/2014/12/4-mexican-immigrant-kids-
cheap...](https://www.wired.com/2014/12/4-mexican-immigrant-kids-cheap-robot-
beat-mit/)

~~~
sanderjd
I guess I don't really get it... How are powerpoint slides any different than
flip chart sheets? It seems to me that either thing can be used illustratively
by people who do know what to say, or as a crutch by people who don't.

~~~
EliRivers
The cost of editing flip chart sheets is huge in time and inconvenience. It
forces me to actually think about them in advance and do them right, rather
than the typical powerpoint method of creation; copy some text from a
completely unsuitable document, add bullets points and then start removing
words.

~~~
altstar
The problem here is you, not the tool.

~~~
masklinn
I quite doubt EliRivers is responsible for all powerpoint presentations across
the world.

Their point is that flip chart edition acted as a filter on garbage
production, as editing a flip chart is time and labor intensive more time goes
into planning and whittling down the amount of stuff to show, as well as into
preparing the presentation itself. Powerpoint does the opposite and
facilitates the production of huge streams of garbage quickly, resulting in
exactly what we can see.

And sure you can still state that _it 's the user's fault_, but here's the
thing: the user has been a moron all along, it took your tool for the user's
stupidity to become damaging. When your tool empowers stupidity and you refuse
to acknowledge basic reality, your tool is at fault.

------
weej
Bezo's reasoning on Amazon's no powerpoint policy: "Well structured, narrative
text is what we're after rather than just text. If someone builds a list of
bullet points in word, that would be just as bad as powerpoint.

The reason writing a 4 page memo is harder than "writing" a 20 page powerpoint
is because the narrative structure of a good memo forces better thought and
better understanding of what's more important than what, and how things are
related.

Powerpoint-style presentations somehow give permission to gloss over ideas,
flatten out any sense of relative importance, and ignore the
innerconnectedness of ideas."

[http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-email-against-
powe...](http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-email-against-powerpoint-
presentations-2015-7)

------
foolfoolz
I don't buy the PowerPoint hate at all.

we are in a time where you plug your computer into a projector. your computer
can display anything you want, but I believe most people would still show
PowerPoint for a presentation. yes there's a lot of bad presentations out
there, there's patterns that make your ppt bad. but that doesn't mean
PowerPoint is a bad tool, I think that really just highlights giving a
presentation is difficult. PowerPoint may make it seem easy because you can
make them fast but making a good one is still difficult

lots of websites suck but we don't blame the web

lots of apps suck but we don't blame the platform

~~~
geraldcombs

      - Powerpoint
        - has
          - terrible
            - default
              - settings

~~~
dkersten
On the other hand, powerpoint has good font size defaults. I haaaaate when
people use one of those javascript presentation things (or, shudder, something
home grown), because their fonts are ALWAYS[1] too small for me to read (I
don't have great eyesight, even with glasses, I can't always read everything
at a distance), while powerpoint is typically pretty readable (as long as you
have no more than 5 points on a slide... after that, it gets too small)

[1] in my experience thus far

~~~
Cthulhu_
Yeah, this; if you really are going to show code, make it huge. No such thing
as too big when it comes to that. Stick to 40 character lines tops and make
them fill the whole screen. Prefer to use the full slide for a code example,
and put the most important thing at the top of the screen (usually the bottom
half of a presentation / beamer screen is unreadable)

------
debacle
My son is finally to the age where he needs to submit/present PowerPoint
presentations for homework assignments. After walking him through the best
practices for presenting + making sure his presentation was ship-shape, he
received a C. His teacher sent a rubrick for the next assignment with criteria
like: must have at least one animated transition; must use at least two
backgrounds; must use at least 3 text animations; must not be in outline
format; use complete sentences.

I was floored, but in the end explained to him that he's doing something for a
grade, not for it to be good, and that there is a right and wrong way to do a
PowerPoint presentation.

~~~
nihonde
Maybe present yourself as a seasoned presenter and business veteran and offer
to help the teacher prepare a top-notch lesson plan for next year's PP
segment?

~~~
debacle
I cause enough trouble at school as it is.

------
matwood
It's not a Powerpoint problem, but a presenter problem. Slides should be short
and concise with a few words or graphics. If someone can read a presenters
slides, and understand the presentation then too much was put on the slides.

~~~
probably_wrong
Or, as my public speaking instructor put it: reading is faster than listening.
If I can read what you are going to say, then why are _you_ here? I'd rather
just read it.

~~~
mgbmtl
To some extent, people could also just watch the recording online, and skip
through the boring content. When I attend a presentation, it's usually to
engage with the speaker and with other people in the room. Powerpoint or not,
if the speaker is just reading an overly rehearsed script, I'll probably fall
asleep.

~~~
dkersten
I'd rather read. Skipping over video is an exercise in frustratingly watching
snippets to see if you've overshot or not.

~~~
matwood
What you want to read then is the transcript of the presentation along with
slides to follow along.

~~~
dkersten
Yeah, that would be pretty good.

Although, having said that, I find a written article is usually better written
than a transcript of spoken language, since spoken language tends to go off
point or include filler or whatever, while written articles are generally
better edited. But transcript + slides are pretty good, when available.

------
a_d
I am surprised there isn’t more on this in this thread:

Persuasion is the center-piece of business activity.

One of the most powerful ways to persuade is through storytelling. Well
storytelling is central to our social and cultural experience. No wonder that
it finds its way in our work — esp work at big companies (more humans = more
social, cultural). Most presentations, discussions or meetings are exercises
in persuasion via storytelling.

For years stories are told with theatrics or embellishment. That’s PowerPoint.

In the hands of a good storyteller — someone who has something to say and a
compelling way to say it — PowerPoint will seem like a great tool. Conversely,
the tool will suck (in the same way a guitar sucks when i play it, but becomes
magical in the hands of jimmy page :))

Now, as a storytelling tool — just the fact that PowerPoint has found its way
into a Billion computers — is astounding. Probably makes it one of the most
useful tools invented!

------
oeuviz
People forget that especially in the business world PowerPoint presentations
are not only used for presenting content but also as a medium of distribution.

The author presumably does not see need to assamble two sets of the content
and just uses the same slides intended for presentation also as handout -
resulting in eiter an overloaded presentation or useless handouts.

I try to avoid that by integrating all necessary background info in the
presentation but skip that during the presentation and only display it if
asked for.

~~~
cm2187
Yeah. But these are two different exercises. You have on screen presentations
on one side, which is probably less than 5% of the use of powerpoint in large
companies, and pitchbooks which are probably like 95%.

Pitchbooks are never meant to be shown on-screen. They are paper handouts (or
on-screen on a tablet or PC). They are as much a visual aid for the meeting
for charts and bullet points, than a take away to avoid people having to take
notes. It de facto replaced word documents in large companies outside of a few
formal documents.

So it has to be concise enough to be efficient. The rule of thumb is that you
should be able to read the title and subtitle of every slide only and get the
message that the pitch carries. It should have an executive summary that
serves the same purpose. But it needs to be detailed enough, with an appendix
and footnotes, for someone who didn't attend to get all the important details.

~~~
_raoulcousins
I wish that was the case at my company. I'm required to create slide decks
that are supposed to be usable as presentations and can stand alone without
anyone presenting them. I don't think it's actually possible.

------
vanderZwan
Anyone reminded of Alan Kay's way of presenting with Smalltalk? He always
takes a moment to point out how horribly limiting PowerPoint is too.

I recall reading about another alternative OS where the "desktop" was a
zoomable canvas and files were opened by zooming in far enough. Presentations
on that machine apparent were a simple matter or aligning files next to each
other and scrolling.

~~~
eovwm23neuo
I've watched a presentation done with an app that works like this and it's
nauseating. All the zooming in and out gave me a headache. It was literally
one of the worst presentations I've ever viewed.

~~~
enzanki_ars
I am assuming you are referring to Prezi. I agree that Prezi is one of the
worst presentation software out there. Both presenting, viewing, and creating
one of those presentations is the worst.

~~~
vanderZwan
I think the main issue with Prezi-style presentations is that it demands too
much skill to use properly. A better interface with sensible defaults and much
less emphasis on wow-factor would help a lot here.

Normal powerpoint "only" requires a basic awareness of composition and
narrative coherence, which already is too much to ask in practice. To make
good Prezi presentation you need to have the skills of a
cinematographer/editor. Specifically, the skill of continuity editing[0] so
your audience can follow what is going on.

What we want is the calm, easy to read compositions of, say, Yasujirō Ozu or
Wes Anderson, and Akira Kurasowa's sense of movement[1][2]. Instead everyone
uses it in a way that it feels more like the worst aspects of Bayhem[3].

I still believe Prezi-like presentation tools have the potential to be good,
because they _could_ be used to map relationships in your narrative to spatial
relationships. But that would require _a)_ that you are aware of those
relationships yourself and _b)_ that you posses the skills to translate that
into spatial compositions that are coherent.

This is obviously an unrealistic demand, so instead the tools should assist
you with that. It needs is an interface that helps users structure their
story, with sensible default conversions. Maybe something like Treesheets[4],
where you can create a tree-based hierarchy in your topics, and then a
conversion of that to a spatial hierarchy that is easy to follow, and _not_ a
distraction from the actual narrative.

The vertical slides in reveal.js are a step in the right direction, starting
from the powerpoint side of the spectrum[5]. What we need a step in the right
direction of the free-flowing Prezi side of presentations. At some point there
will be a happy middle ground.

EDIT: Maybe we should all just work our way through Pixar's storytelling
course on Khan Academy[6]

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_editing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_editing)

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbXRpiVO1po](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbXRpiVO1po)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q)

[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doaQC-S8de8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doaQC-S8de8)

[4] [http://strlen.com/treesheets/](http://strlen.com/treesheets/)

[5] [http://lab.hakim.se/reveal-js/#/](http://lab.hakim.se/reveal-js/#/)

[6] [https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-
content/pixar/storytelli...](https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-
content/pixar/storytelling)

------
macspoofing
We use power point to prototype our UIs. It's actually quite powerful and
works surprisingly well given that we don't usually go into complex workflows
when prototyping. I don't think I've seen a better commercial product for
throwing something together real quick.

~~~
glaberficken
I have used Power Point for a long time as my go to "image composition tool".

You know, when you just want to annotate a photo or a map, or superimpose a
few images on each other (like for quick workplace jokes)

It is the fastest tool I found to do these sorts of quick and dirty jobs. I
call it "PowerShoping" =)

~~~
Cthulhu_
I had a colleague that did that too, either with Powerpoint or MacOS' version;
he used it to create pretty complex graphics and everything with it.

------
peterburkimsher
When the IEEE article was posted last week, I followed a link to a book
written by one of the developers of the original PowerPoint. I got very little
work done that Friday, but it was very interesting, particularly thinking
about the difference between OHPs and 35mm slides.

[http://www.robertgaskins.com/powerpoint-history/sweating-
bul...](http://www.robertgaskins.com/powerpoint-history/sweating-
bullets/gaskins-sweating-bullets-webpdf-isbn-9780985142414.pdf)

I'd like to hear Robert Gaskins give a TED talk. I emailed him to ask if he
also wants to, and if he's willing then I think we can nominate him through
the TED website. It's quite meta, because I think TED would never really exist
without PowerPoint.

[http://speaker-nominations.ted.com](http://speaker-nominations.ted.com)

------
gautamdivgi
I generally avoid power points - but I think the hate is misplaced. The reason
people put detail in power points is because there is no expectation of prior
reading/review/preparation from an audience. It makes things worse with a
remote work culture where a power point gets treated as a "summary".

------
stmw
This article has too small font, too many words, I lost interest part way
through. Is there a presentation somewhere that covers the authors' main
points? Thanks.

:) j/k

~~~
Turing_Machine
The words are pretty much par for the course in academic writing.

That font, though, is inexcusable.

~~~
PeachPlum
[http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit](http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit)

Now that I have made this catalogue of swindles and perversions, let me give
another example of the kind of writing that they lead to. This time it must of
its nature be an imaginary one. I am going to translate a passage of good
English into modern English of the worst sort. Here is a well-known verse from
Ecclesiastes:

> I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the
> battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men
> of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance
> happeneth to them all.

Here it is in modern English:

> Objective considerations of contemporary phenomena compel the conclusion
> that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be
> commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the
> unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.

This is a parody, but not a very gross one.

------
harry8
"It has likely been used to raise more money than any other tool in history."

Hmm, I'm going to have to think for all of 2 seconds and say I can't see a way
of interpreting "used to raise more money" such that powerpoint is going to
come in ahead of the pen.

And the hyperbole continue. "Are we really thinking here or is this just so
much pointing and clicking." [https://www.allposters.com/-sp/Are-we-thinking-
here-or-is-th...](https://www.allposters.com/-sp/Are-we-thinking-here-or-is-
this-just-so-much-pointing-and-clicking-New-Yorker-Cartoon-
Posters_i9172134_.htm)

It would seem the author wishes to blame a tool for their own failings..?

------
thesumofall
I know it's fun and easy to bash PowerPoint but I strongly believe it has its
merits. I guess, as a strategy consultant I have to say so :) As there are
ways to properly structure a text document, there are ways to properly use
PowerPoint. E.g., for detailed management briefings, a PowerPoint, if done
right, allows the reader to get the main messages within minutes but also
allows for in-depth reading of key points. Typically, such presentations would
be structured results/recommendations-first [1] and using the
assertion/evidence model [2]

[1] Most people structure their PowerPoints sequentially ("we started doing
this, then we did that..."). In most cases it is better to start with the
final outcome ("we recommend doing x") and then provide all the required
backing

[2] State the learning from the slide in the title and present the required
evidence in the content part. This allows people to just skim all the titles
and get the full story but also dive deep where needed

Edit: To be precise: such presentations are not intended to entertain. They
are a tool to guide people as effectively as possible through complex content
and allow pre-reading / post-reading

------
everyone
Personally I like to be able to keep presentations really really short and
dense by showing a live demo, gifs, or pictures.

.. I think when pp presentations start having text or bullet points is when it
starts to go wrong.

------
Systemic33
I always use the mantra that power points should only be used when you need to
show something you can't draw in 5 seconds.

If it's not strictly needed, then it does more harm than good, by distracting
listeners.

------
CalChris
Limit presentations to 10 slides. This works for VC pitches. It should
probably work for anything.

Guy Kawasaki even has his 10 20 30 rule [1]. 10 slides, 20 minutes, 30 point
font.

I had a writing assignment once in college. The limit was 1000 words. And then
there was a list of points we had to address. Enforced brevity was the
challenge.

On the other end of the spectrum, there's David Byrne _I Heart Powerpoint_ [2]
which I had the pleasure to see at Berkeley. He's mentioned in the article.

[1]
[https://guykawasaki.com/the_102030_rule/](https://guykawasaki.com/the_102030_rule/)

[2]
[http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/ppt1.html](http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/ppt1.html).

------
abtinf
“By inadvertently privileging the relationships between personal computing and
networked forms of sociality...”

What a bunch of gibberish.

~~~
Finnucane
It's not gibberish. The meaning is clear. In English, you would say, "We got
sidetracked by the rise of social media platforms and forget that people do
other stuff with computers." There's a difference between gibberish and
obfuscation, a difference upon which hangs tenure.

~~~
scrumper
Is that what that meant? Must admit I couldn’t parse it.

------
anon946
I think one point that sometimes gets overlooked is that there are different
types of presentations. For example, a set of slides that are designed to
accompany lectures for a course on partial differential equations should be
very different from a set of slides designed to pitch a business idea,
especially if the lecture slides are intended to also serve as notes/textbook.

------
ryandrake
The text on this site is confined to a very narrow column that is about 15%
the width of my display. Whatever point the author has about the goodness or
badness of PowerPoint as way to present is diminished thanks to the site's
inability to present its own content.

------
SubiculumCode
I understand the powerpoint hate, but seriously when you are presenting data
plots you dont want to draw it. You want to show the data. Another benefit of
slides are that researchers post them on the internets, with presenter notes.
These are often very informative.

~~~
hydrox24
> when ... presenting data plots you dont wnat to draw it. You want to show
> the data.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. The criticism of powerpoint is not so much
it's broader context. There are plenty of ways to present structured data with
computers promoting good-practices. The criticism is that Powerpoint doesn't
encourage people to show the data in the first place.

TL;DR: This issue isn't what Powerpoint _can_ do, it is what it nudges people
to do.

------
phantom_oracle
How does the community feel about well-presented talks using very few or none
slides?

I kind of feel that even in tech, you would come across as unprepared or
"lazy" for not having slides/PowerPoint

~~~
analog31
I think that to pull it off, you need to convey the impression that you're too
important and busy to create PP slides, and that you're showing stuff that's
just so urgent and great that you didn't want to make them wait for a PP.

Also, practice will improve your ability to give those presentations, so it's
worth practicing on low profile meetings before doing it in front of the CEO.

~~~
robaato
I remember a presentation by Martin Fowler which was without slides - talking
extempore about his latest thinking on software development - and very
engaging it was too!

------
jordigh
I've found doitlive is a good way to give a quick, non-interactive talk, for
example, where you know you won't have time to answers questions from the
audience.

I used a proto-doitlive, which inspired the actual doitlive, to present a
lightning talk on Mercurial revsets:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSLvERZQSok#t=965](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSLvERZQSok#t=965)

------
oeuviz
I wish this website was summarized in a few slides.

------
blhack
If you want to see what a good powerpoint looks like:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3RnDD4kETI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3RnDD4kETI)

Bad powerpoints are bad, and good powerpoints are good. They're a useful tool.
If they're used well, then they help the talk.

(This is also a _excellent_ talk. I recommend watching it.)

------
waynecochran
If only Lincoln has PowerPoint

[https://norvig.com/Gettysburg/sld001.htm](https://norvig.com/Gettysburg/sld001.htm)

~~~
eovwm23neuo
Did you not see this example in the article? What's your point?

------
hammock
> the box-shaped selection tool that allows speakers to select a portion of
> the slide for public display is hidden from the audience

What tool is this? I am unfamiliar

------
Kenji
I don't get the PowerPoint hate. You can have a wonderful presentation while
having PowerPoint slides. As an additional benefit, your audience can keep the
presentation PDF which makes it easier for them to remember the cornerstones
of the talk.

