
Shopping for a Home in the Bay Area? Head to the Mall - prostoalex
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/08/shopping-for-a-home-head-to-the-mall/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook
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Safyia
That is great! I hate the car culture in the US. It is crazy that if you want
to go out for an ice cream, or just buy something really quick, you have to
drive in the horrible traffic most US cities have and find parking, which is
sparse and expensive or spend money on an uber/lyft. It is just not worth it,
since you might as well pay for two hour delivery on a ton of things. I wish
there were more pedestrian zones, more walkable malls and less cars/traffic.

~~~
ghaff
Santana Row is a mostly upscale shopping complex with hotel and luxury housing
attached. On a nice evening, there are pleasant outdoor eating options and it
generally was designed to have more of a walkable area than most complexes of
this type.

But it's really not much like an authentic town center in the types of
amenities it has and, while you can walk to a number of restaurants, I expect
you'd still have to end up driving for most things. The area as a whole is not
very walkable and there are limited transit options.

~~~
faster
The Santana Row developers thought pedestrian areas were cool, but for
whatever reason they built roads right through the middle of their faux-
pedestrian zones. Because you can't make people to get out of their cars at
the edge and actually walk?

~~~
086421357909764
I can't even begin to count the number of times i've seen someone almost hit
in front of the container store / best buy.

~~~
FiveSquared
The traffic in the faux-pedestrian areas (drivers) is even worse

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segphault
Santana Row is fantastic, I can imagine that it'd be a great place to live.
That kind of mixed-use development is something that really ought to be more
ubiquitous. It's worth noting that there are even companies, like Splunk, that
have offices there. I considered living at Santana Row when I moved to San
Jose, but I ended up a few miles further down Steven's Creek because I wanted
to be closer to Diridon.

~~~
rconti
I like mixed use development, but I can't imagine a place much less appealing
than Santana Row. Except maybe Valley Fair.

~~~
eitally
I'm with you. Every time I venture to either place, I dread it. One time it
took 1hr+ just to get out of the parking garage at Santana Row because of a
popup foodtruck that had parked itself outside
([https://www.facebook.com/Hellokittycafetruck/](https://www.facebook.com/Hellokittycafetruck/)).

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pm90
This is happening in Austin, Texas as well. The development known as "The
Domain" in North Austin first had malls, but also has residential apartments
close by. There is also a street filled with bars and restaurants.

I was amazed at how it seemed like a different world when I was there for an a
event last week. Does seem pretty artificial (i.e. man made), but hey, many
people seem to love that.

~~~
fokinsean
The domain is so generic and fake feeling, it is just cookie cutter shops,
apartments, and restaurants. Feels like "SoDoSoPa" from South park. There is
even a place called "The Residences at the Domain" which is comical.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miXMWJyOdgw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miXMWJyOdgw)

It almost seems like it's trying so hard to be some place cool, I mean the
"6th street" there is called "Rock Rose" lol.

Some people do seem to love it, but it doesn't appeal to me at all. Then again
many people live north of downtown and it is way easier to get to than dealing
with mopac or 35 if you're up there.

To each their own though I guess.

~~~
pm90
Its pretty cookie cutter, and also expensive. The one thing I do appreciate is
that its free of the homeless/panhandlers that one often finds in Downtown
Austin.

~~~
BoorishBears
[https://www.udr.com/austin-apartments/north-
burnet/residence...](https://www.udr.com/austin-apartments/north-
burnet/residences-at-the-domain/apartments-pricing/)

$1,266 for a 1 bedroom luxury apartment with parking included?!

For a normal apartment that'd be average here in not-that-expensive New Haven,
CT. Luxury apartments are closer to 2k for 1 bedroom here.

I feel like I've been underestimating how cheap Austin is said to be...

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peterjlee
There are more extreme versions of these all over Seoul. Usually there's a
5-story mall with grocery store, clinics, super market, etc. Then on top of
that there's a 30-story apartment building with some outdoor grass area. You
basically don't have to leave the building if you live there.

~~~
yourapostasy
These might eventually turn out to be predecessors of future arcologies [1].
If you can work out the co-generation aspects, a hyper-dense version of these
"malls" could yield significant energy savings over even conventional high-
density megalopolises like NYC, Beijing, Tokyo, Mumbai, etc.

[1] [https://boingboing.net/2015/04/16/arcology-cutaways-of-
the-f...](https://boingboing.net/2015/04/16/arcology-cutaways-of-the-
futu.html)

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astura
A business on the first floor of a residential building used to be the
standard. Well, maybe not THE standard but very common. Still seen pretty
often in many cities with older construction. This is basically a 21st century
version. Pretty good idea if you ask me.

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michaelchisari
Well, that's one way to convert suburban areas to dense and mixed use urban
ones.

~~~
danans
It's an interesting solution to increase the supply of housing in areas that
are already (relatively) dense and unaffordable, like the Bay Area, where it's
already common for people in downtown areas to live above or adjacent to
retail businesses, and where many people consider walkability to retail
businesses a valuable thing. Santana Row is already designed and targeted at
high-end tastes for retail, so it's easier to extend that to high end housing.

However, in suburban areas where housing is cheaper (per sq ft), unless denser
housing at the mall provides other urban-style benefits (i.e. higher end
retail, easier workplace access, mass-transit hubs, shared civic spaces,
cultural event proximity, etc.) it may just appear like "living at the mall",
with all the connotations thereof. Put another way, all else equal, most
people don't want to live adjacent to the "Hot Topic" and the "As Seen on TV"
stores. The balance has to be more toward feeling like a place to live and
work, not a public shopping center. Dense cities, with all of their retail,
still feel like places people live and/or work.

If, however, they are able to provide those other "public" goods along with
the mall, then perhaps it is a great shortcut to reshaping the landscape of
suburban america towards a more mixed-use and sustainable model.

~~~
rayiner
Mixed use retail/residential is popping up all over the suburbs, at least in
MD/VA. There are 10+ story apartment buildings around Annapolis Town Center,
Reston Town Center, Columbia Mall, Tyson’s Corner, Dunn Loring, etc. They
don’t eliminate your car commute, but at least you don’t have to get in the
freeway to get a hair cut.

~~~
danans
I've seen these developments, but they have been designed from the start with
such use in mind, are in prosperous areas, and have (at least by US standards)
decent transit options and civic facilities. They aren't so different from
Santana Row.

I'm less convinced (though open) that suburban malls in economically depressed
areas that are in the path of the retail apocalypse can be retrofit to this
purpose.

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gumby
This is particularly funny to me because people in the South Bay typically use
the big shopping malls as the landmarks (as in, “down by Santana row” or “head
in the direction of rivermark...” where in other places people would say “head
north” or “by the border of ...” or at least use an unbranded man-made
landmark like “near union square”)

I don’t think it’s at all _unreasonable_ for people to speak this way —
between Mountain View and the SJC airport is a vast isotropic region that’s
been rendered devoid of natural landmarks. But for the uninitiated it’s weird.

~~~
tavert
> between Mountain View and the SJC airport is a vast isotropic region that’s
> been rendered devoid of natural landmarks

Stealing that description. I'd extend it up the peninsula too, pretty much to
Millbrae. Stanford and the bridges kinda count, but don't exactly interrupt
the isotropicness much.

~~~
gumby
Palo Alto, Menlo Park and Mountain View have internal structure, perhaps San
Carlos too, but otherwise, now you say it, for the developed part of the
peninsular valley I have to agree.

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southphillyman
There are a handful of these already in Philadelphia suburbs (King of Prussia,
Phoenixville). The KOP development is a billion project with 300+ units. Nice
counter measure to the millennial migration to the city. Most of the jobs are
in the suburbs so if this catches on should ease some of the nightmare
commutes in the area.

[https://philly.curbed.com/2017/8/22/16084002/king-of-
prussia...](https://philly.curbed.com/2017/8/22/16084002/king-of-prussia-
development-boom)

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sneak
This is great. One step closer to my dream of one day living entirely indoors
and not owning shoes.

~~~
strictnein
Live downtown Minneapolis and get a job downtown. There's skyway connected
apartments, restaurants, bars, theaters, and grocery stores. Even a Target.
And Target Field (baseball), Target Center (basketball, concerts), and US Bank
stadium (football), if that's your thing.

~~~
akgerber
Montreal offers an even bigger version linked by its metro system:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City,_Montreal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City,_Montreal)

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rdiddly
Still a bit too "luxury" priced for me (living at the mall that is), but I
have to admit, it lets two problems solve each other, just by essentially
asking "Why not?"

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mc32
I think it was prev mayor mcenery who tried very hard, but ultimately failed
at bootstraping this idea for downtown San Jose in the late late 80s with the
apartments and downtown mall and transit known as the pavilion.

Looks like that vision, while an utter failure then, may finally find
vindication.

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krisadair
If this helps the housing problem then it is a great idea. I have seen a few
of these type ideas. There is something similar down the road from me in
Mountain View.

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ringaroundthetx
This runs counter to all of my luxury aspirations in America

But I did consider doing a stint at the top of the Sony Center in Potsdamer
Platz, Berlin

I think I'll stick to my existing aspirations of "get your funds up". Success
for me will be getting called a douchebag because of my far-future son or
daughter's car, without any further context of my character or in person
actions. Then I will feel like "yes, I've made it".

Living in the carcass of a mall won't do that.

~~~
recursive
Somehow you've turned this story into something about your luxury aspirations.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
Yes it was a comment about how unappealing this is, we do the same thing
whenever somebody else here brags about the tech solution which lacks product
market fit.

Shopping for a home has to appeal to people that are in the market for a home.
The phrasing is not exclusive to buying versus renting, but colloquially thats
what it implies. People in the bay area currently on the market wouldn't be
looking for this, it would be the new and naive next year and the year after
that may wind up considering this. The current market is people that can make
down payments on million dollar+ mortgages and that doesn't include living in
the carcass of a suburban mall.

