
Steve Jobs brainstorms with the NeXT team - shivkapoor
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2011/11/20/watch-steve-jobs-brainstorm-with-the-next-team-in-this-fascinating-video/
======
AlexMuir
I recognised his trademark passionate speech (02:43) about using technology to
improve education. Laden with superlatives, it's just like every Apple product
launch since the iPod.

It's a great pity that education hasn't actually changed a bit in the
intervening time. Computers are pretty much just used for teaching computers,
as electronic typewriters and libraries, and to cut down on admin. They really
are not used as learning aids, as 'simulated learning environments' or
anything similar.

There's still a huge way to go in using IT in education. I think the Khan
Academy is one step, the opening up of journals is probably another. We're a
long way off what Jobs visualised even back in the late eighties.

~~~
pjin
Actually, his primary example of "simulated learning" is more modest than you
put it. Essentially, researchers really did and still do want to have
computers as a tool for performing experimental simulations and using
computing for communication. Computing has been "marvelous" in advancing what
scientists have been able to in the past couple of decades, and Apple is still
very prevalent here today.

For example, even today the "workstation" is still quite common in labs. Where
I work, I see a lot of 8-core Mac Pros. Huddled away under desks are old G4s
and G5s. What do we run on these machines? MATLAB, Mathematica, heavy Fortran
compilers, expensive microscopes, and almost-real-time experimental setups. In
other words, all stuff vital to scientific experiment and computation.

Yes, he broadly lectured on "higher learning," but it is no surprise to me
that the Web was born on a NeXT computer at CERN and not anywhere else. On the
other hand, it is true that we have not seen the "simulated learning
environments" or other AI-esque dreams from the 80s materialize in modern
computing. At least not as we thought we understood them: OpenCourseWare, Khan
Academy, and Stanford Online Education have begun to revolutionize the
"learning" half. And as for open publications, well, the arXiv is 20 years old
now (nearly the age of the Web!), the NIH requires open access 6 months after
publication, etc. We're definitely not there yet, but I think we're on the
right track.

If there were one thing though which would mark a great leap in progress, it
would be Open Data. The incentives don't really exist today for open data---
data can be like a trade secret to be hoarded for publications, and getting
ahead in academia is all about getting there first before you get scooped. We
need broad, systemic changes.

------
Bud
Great to see this old NeXT stuff.

I still have my NeXTStation Turbo Color, and shockingly, it still runs! Other
than my current iMac, it's easily my favorite computer ever. To be using a
NeXT in the early 1990s truly was like being 15 years ahead of what everyone
else had.

~~~
yardie
God I miss mine. I put mine out on the curb on moving day, after graduation,
because I didn't have enough room in the car. I changed my mind and went back
to get it and it was gone not even 15 minutes.

Whoever took her from Pheasant Run Crossings, I hope you're treating her well.

------
murz
The original youtube link was posted on HN three times in the past day...

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3257547>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3258750>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3258731>

Apparently reading HN is all it takes to be a breaking tech news blogger
theses days =P

~~~
mpanzarino
Hah! Yeah, sorry didn't see those. This video was originally posted by Layar
CEO Raimo van der Klein here: <http://cl.ly/2J0d1v2K1F3x3y3F401T> Right around
the time that Jobs resigned. I had it tucked away in Instapaper as it was
hosted on a Dutch video sharing site that also shared a lot of Porn and I
would rather share it from a YouTube upload.

When I saw the YT link for this video posted on Twitter (probably via someone
browsing HN) I found the other two from Slomacuser and thought that they would
be a good counterpoint.

Good stuff tends to surface to HN though, so I'm not surprised it ended up
here multiple times.

-Breaking Tech News Blogger

------
bignoggins
11:00 in the video is a fascinating example of someone standing up to Jobs'
reality distortion field.

~~~
sho_hn
That's Joanna Hoffman, who was also part of the Macintosh team. The Isaacson
bio shares an anecdote about how the Mac team would annually give out an award
to the team member who had proven most able to stand up to Jobs, and Hoffman
won it the first two years. It was fun to see an example of why.

~~~
mpanzarino
Thanks! I didn't recognize her. Added that info to the article.

~~~
colton36
What is her accent? It really is fascinating.

~~~
dredmorbius
Sounds German to me, which would fit with her name.

------
alexwolfe
Oh man the 80's were really something. This is some seriously nerdy (but
great) footage. One thing they weren't short on was vision, seems like that
was in abundance (along with hair) back then.

------
leak
I love how the "boss" is sitting on the floor while most everyone is seated on
the couch.

"...and if we can't do that, then we outta go broke"

------
antimora
Thanks for posting, watched every video on it and found it fascinating indeed.

A few new revelation from them: Jobs' businessman side, NeXT's email client is
far more advanced and sophisticated/simple than our current email clients, and
Spinning Disk Wait Cursor has originated in NeXT.

------
teyc
"Take a really expensive technology and pull it down to a price point that is
affordable". That's what he did with the iPad too.

~~~
allenbrunson
That might have been NeXT's goal, but they didn't achieve it.

In the video, Jobs says that three grand is the upper bound on what their
polled potential customers are willing to pay. The first NeXT cube had a base
price of $6,500.00. They also didn't meet their original deadline either,
going over by more than a year.

~~~
teyc
Startups are hard; even for Steve Jobs.

If you think about it, when he went back to Apple, he didn't have to worry
about logo, coffee machines etc.

In fact, one point he made on the video was that over at NeXT they had
forgotten "how to be scrappy", and hustle for discounts.

------
jc123
Jobs had a lot of uncertainty about what NeXT should build: very interesting
part is around 15:52 where he says it isn't his job. He basically says that
someone has to define it. It seems that he was just telling people to figure
it out themselves and not providing much leadership. Would have been
fascinating to see how it was resolved and Jobs's role: how much input comes
from him versus his role as a facilitator.

------
brc
I see a bit more stuff about NeXT getting posted around, I suspect this is
because of Jobs' passing.

It got me wondering : although a commercial failure, this computer made a big
impact. I wonder if, in 20 years time, all the cool kids will have an old NeXT
on prominent display in their home? What other bits of hardware/software
combos are going to be classics?

~~~
jonhendry
I think there were only about 50,000 NeXT machines ever sold, so there may not
be enough to go around for all the cool kids.

~~~
brc
That's what I mean - with a very limited supply, unique (and durable) design,
first-machine-on-the-web status and the steve jobs connection, I can see this
becoming an investment grade collectible at some point. They cost between $500
and $2000 for the cube (which will undoubtedly be the one to have) now, I can
see a future scenario where they are going for 10 times that at auctions,
particularly if they have provenance (ie owned by a famous person, Next
developer, used at a demo by jobs, etc).

~~~
jonhendry
Well, I have a Cube and a mono slab. If you're right, I'm set for retirement.

------
augustl
I want to know more about NeXT. Particularly interested in the details
surrounding the fact that the goal was spring 1987, but actual release was
fall 1988.

Perhaps the Isaacson biography covers it? Any other literature I could refer
to?

------
mmaunder
Go to 16:50. If you ever feel like you're scrounging for pennies in the couch:
everyone does it and it's part of business at any level. It's typical for
startups to spend a huge amount of cash when they get funded and pay full
price for everything as word gets out they're flush with cash. It takes a
while to develop a culture of being cheap.

e.g. the last time I worked in someone else's startup (6 years ago) I remember
looking around the room and thinking that every one of the $2000 desks that
were bought from a local artist is a server we could have bought.

------
niels_olson
The author's assertion that this is better than Isaacson's coverage of the
same topic rings hollow. Isaacson definitely addresses the hallucinatory '87
deadline, Joanna's resistance, the "honeymoon is over" intro to the second
Pebble Beach meeting. I wouldn't be surprised if Isaacson had access to this
video as a source.

That said, it's a different perspective, which is nice. I just disagree with
Panzarino's implicit assertion that a) Isaacson's biography missed this, and
b) this gem of a video fills that purported void.

~~~
mpanzarino
Niels, it definitely wasn't my intention to imply that Isaacson don't touch on
these matters at all, because he did. However, I must stick by my assertion
that the discussions of Jobs' motives and methods during this era is very,
very light. This video adds a significant amount of color to the conversation
about NeXT and the way that he interacts with the staff is fascinating.

So yes, he may have pulled some quotes from the players involved, but I feel
that this short video tells you more about Jobs' operational methods at the
time than the entire section on NeXT in the bio.

Thank you very much for your thoughts though, it is definitely a possibility
that this was part of the material used by Isaacson, good point.

------
yardie
Wow, in the 4th video, where he's showing off NextStep mail application, the
definition of smooth scrolling has definitely changed over the decades.

~~~
duckfruit
That being said, after watching this video it struck me how little innovation
has being going on in the email space.

Granted, change for change's sake is not always a good thing, but for a video
made before I was born it seems strange that even the mail.app that ships with
Lion still hasn't fundamentally changed from its neXt forebears - we still
have the three large horizontal textboxes on top of a large textarea for the
body, and everything seems to function in exactly the same manner.

No wonder people my age barely use email anymore. A subject line? really?

~~~
robotresearcher
What's wrong with the subject line? I'm genuinely interested in the post-email
phenomenon. Us old timers sometimes would sometimes put a whole short message
in the subject line, giving roughly the functionality of an instant message.

------
statictype
Is the guy skeptical about the software delivery Rubenstein (who later went to
Palm)?

Looks a bit like him.

~~~
culturestate
I think that's George Crow. SJ addresses him by name at one point in that
video.

------
jwcacces
Fascinating. I'd also love to see the Lotus 1-2-3 segment. Anyone know where
that is?

~~~
azsromej
I'd like to see the whole video. Here's some info on it - not sure where to
actually get a copy though
<https://catalyst.library.jhu.edu/catalog/bib_1261137>

