
Uber Is Currently Fighting the Battle That Jitneys Lost 100 Years Ago - smacktoward
http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/uber-is-currently-fighting-the-battle-that-jitneys-lost-1629552478
======
Bsharp
Really enjoyed this article - seemed to give a pretty objective look at what
happened then and parallels to now.

What I liked most though was the author's honest assessment of what happens if
Uber and others win. Most people seem to imagine this utopia of competition
between the ride share companies, but given that Uber is already engaging in
immortal practices to eliminate competition and hiring people to schmooze
regulators, I doubt that's the direction we're headed. If they get their way,
we'll be complaining about them in 20 years when they are established, another
company comes along, and Uber tries to regulate them away.

~~~
bane
If you've ever been in a country with a completely unregulated taxi "system",
Uber's success should absolutely terrify anybody.

Trying to make sure you aren't part of an "express kidnapping" or "millionaire
tour" is a real problem in many places.

~~~
mseebach
The focus on safety is a straw man. If the only purpose of regulations was
safety, there would be no need at all to limit the supply. Uber wouldn't be
opposed to require drivers to obtain a proper hire-car licence, the beef is
with the artificial limiting of supply that prevents competition.

Source: in London, regulation allows unlimited numbers of "minicabs" which
predates Uber but which Uber operates under.

~~~
makomk
There's no such limit in (for example) Germany but that hasn't stopped Uber
from ignoring the regulations there.

~~~
mseebach
The regulation is different in Germany, private hire cars have to operate out
of a registered address, and return to that address between hires. Obviously
has no relevance to safety. But Uber is playing by these rules for "regular"
black car Uber, the effort that was shut down was Uber Pop, which was meant to
compete in the carpooling space.

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cratermoon
"once a given company "wins" it's a pretty safe bet that they're begin to act
like any of the legacy transportation companies."

That's pretty much all anyone needs to know about this "disruptive" business
thing. In fact, Uber has already worked with municipalities to change the
regulations to allow _their_ business model, but not others.

Once they are in, they will fight just as hard as any other taxi or town car
company to keep the competitors out.

~~~
Vik1ng
You just have to look at the insurances. Instead of advacating for drivers to
get a commercial or semi-commercial insurance it's handled trough Uber locking
drivers in.

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pessimizer
As of 10 years ago, jitneys were extremely common and convenient in Baltimore:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_taxicab_operation#In_w...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_taxicab_operation#In_working-
class_neighborhoods)

"'Hacking' in Baltimore has grown grass-roots style to a region-wide
phenomenon, originating from 'Hack Clubs', organizations usually operating in
converted rowhouses where 'hacks' made their cars available, distributed
business cards with a central number, employed a 'dispatcher', and hung around
the rowhouse waiting in line for calls. This practice continues today, but
hacking has evolved to the point where people nowadays just wag a finger
toward the street, and wait for anyone to stop. This new way of getting around
remains popular, despite being incredibly dangerous, due to disillusionment
with the city transit service, and the fact that licensed cabs seldom stop for
fares in the most dangerous parts of town. There are plenty of willing
drivers, and competition can be fierce. The fare is negotiated and paid
upfront. Police maintain this is illegal, and sometimes enforce with $500
tickets, and a trip to the courthouse. However, hacking is so prevalent in
certain parts of town that cops don't bother making traffic stops."

~~~
gph
Yea I've seen people making the hand motion on the side of the road around
here quite a few times. It's not so much a wagging of the finger as a constant
pointing downwards, like you're tapping on an invisible desk.

It makes sense, there isn't very many taxis in the area. They mostly hang
around the airport and downtown.

~~~
pessimizer
The funniest thing about it is that if you're doing it and notice an actual
cab approaching, you quickly put your hand down. People prefer hacks.

------
exelius
I wonder how this would have played out differently if cab companies developed
decent "hail by mobile" apps. Hell, they still can: mobile app design isn't
that hard/expensive, and they can just use mobile phones like Uber.

The opportunity still exists for them to do so. Uber is really not all that
novel in what it does: at the end of the day, its main use case is to be able
to hail a cab with your phone and verify said cab is coming to pick you up.

But the author is right; this service is a commodity. Uber has been trying to
differentiate through platform lock-in, but cab drivers will do anything to
make a buck. Short of anti-competitive practices (which Uber has certainly had
no shortage of) there's no good way to ensure your drivers don't leave you at
the drop of a hat when something else pops up.

~~~
ajmurmann
Taxi companies also would need to work on their quality issues. I've had too
many taxis in SF and suburban Portland that were filthy and run down and had
incompetent drivers. Never happened with Uber.

EDIT: I think that there just is almost no incentive for taxi companies to
improve on anything because they have had a quasi monopoly in a market that is
completely underserved. When you needed a cap pre-Uber in SF, you were happy
to get any cap at all. That all comes down to taxi medallions.

~~~
nhaehnle
It's important to understand that the medallion mess is a local issue. Uber is
acting like a bully with no regard for the law even in places where getting a
taxi license is basically just a simple extension to your regular driver's
license.

------
tim333
>Los Angeles simply outlawed the jitney due to the amount of revenue it was
losing as fewer people were taking the city's railways.

They were obviously successful if they had to be stopped for emptying the
trains. It's a shame they don't try something similar these days - private
minibuses that you can flag down. They'd need to be regulated a bit I think as
when Thatcher tried allowing private busses in the UK they all piled into the
same central locations and caused jams, but if you could avoid that it could
work and be a lot cheaper than an Uber.

~~~
jacquesm
It works like that in Latin America and parts of the former Eastbloc. The
drivers tend to be totally manic, trips are erratic, cancelled suddenly,
accidents are frequent and the equipment totally unsafe.

Each trip like that is a mini adventure, and I'm always happy to be back on
terra firma afterwards.

Even in places like Panama (not exactly known for it's super infrastructure)
they are trying to get rid of them ('Diablos Rojos') for these reasons.

------
jqm
I'm reminded of two "unregulated" cab trips I took in Mexico. At the time I
was staying in Lukeville, Arizona while working in Organ Pipe Monument and
traveling a few miles into town.

The first trip my co-workers and I were picked up by an elderly man who was
extremely drunk. He even had a beer in the cup holder which he sipped on at
regular intervals during the ride. The car was a huge boat... something like a
1980's Chrysler Lebaron. The guy drove about 12 miles an hour and took huge
exaggerated turns. Oddly enough, I felt perfectly safe. He seemed to be a well
experienced drunk driver, and everyone on the road just kind of stayed out of
his way.

The next trip down we were picked up by a gang of pre-teens. The driver might
have been 11 and had two kids maybe 8 or 9 with him. He had the seat pushed
all the way forward and could barely reach the pedals with his toes. He looked
through the steering wheel at the road. On the way we came to a 4 way stop
with a traffic cop directing traffic. The kid stopped and pulled himself up on
the steering wheel in an attempt to make himself look taller. "Here it goes" I
thought, "We are going to jail in Mexico for child endangerment or
something....". The cop was not fooled by the tall act. But he glanced at the
kid, glanced at us, deliberately looked the other way and waved us through.
The kids waited for us at a few shops, and then drove us back to the border.
We tipped them $5 and some ice creams.

I don't know what the point is. But unregulated taxi services can be
interesting.

------
spindritf
The key difference is not that Uber is well-financed but that it's one,
cohesive organization. The technological difference is also not without
importance.

------
3JPLW
What a riot. The city of Pittsburgh still has jitneys [1], and still calls
them that, too. I always considered it a part of Pittsburghese, but I never
knew the word was once used nationwide — I had never heard it before moving
here. It's particularly interesting as the Pennsylvania Utility Commision has
been giving Uber and Lyft a very difficult time [2] while the jitney has
survived all these years.

1\. [http://www.post-
gazette.com/news/transportation/2013/09/07/P...](http://www.post-
gazette.com/news/transportation/2013/09/07/Pittsburgh-jitney-service-illegal-
but-thriving/stories/201309070167)

2\. [http://www.post-
gazette.com/news/transportation/2014/07/23/P...](http://www.post-
gazette.com/news/transportation/2014/07/23/PUC-bureau-recommends-approval-of-
Lyft-Uber-emergency-applications/stories/201407230198)

------
danielnaab
I think these "sharing economy" companies are going to lose out to the
software that makes them possible. There's no reason that a local cab company,
co-op, or simple non-profit listing service can't offer the same UX as Uber
and Lyft if the software were available to them - which leads me to believe
that it eventually will.

Then the question really becomes one of whether or not we're going to allow a
hoard of unregulated, unlicensed, and possibly, uninsured cab drivers on our
city streets. In the process of figuring that out, we might decide that
existing cabbies are over-regulated, or maybe not. But in any case, the
unequal playing field will not last long.

------
julienchastang
Jitneys (aka Jeepneys[1]) are alive and well in the Philippines. The
Philippines have probably one the best privately owned "public" transportation
systems in the world. Jeepneys really vary from nice little minivans to
motorcycles with side cars. It was in one of these motorcycles that I saw ~12
children going home from school in clown car style. I still have the picture
of this on traditional film somewhere.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeepney](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeepney)

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CurtMonash
It amazes me that there was a point in history when Los Angeles regulators
aggressively protected mass transit at the expense of automobiles ...

------
bostonvaulter2
I can't believe no one has mentioned the strong parallels to the vans that
operate in New York. There was an excellent article on it in the New Yorker a
few months ago:

[http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-
vans/](http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/)

------
mentat
This reads like the only reasons why jitneys were regulated was to protect
entrenched interests of railways. That seems to not be a particularly good
thing then or now.

------
panarky
"Jitney" is a pretty awesome name for a rideshare service or even a rideshare
service aggregator.

~~~
roncito
Thanks! I think so too!

[http://jitney.co](http://jitney.co)

------
recalibrator
I'm convinced Uber is the next Groupon. Full of sound and fury, signifying
nothing.

~~~
par
From day one, if you talked to a Groupon merchant, they would mention how
Groupon is fleecing them or even bleeding them dry. Hop into an Uber and talk
to a driver, many of them having been driving for 6 months or even a year, and
they still talk about how they love it and are making good money.

~~~
rgbrgb
That's still the saving grace to me. Every Uber driver I've talked to was
happy to have the job and felt like they were making good money.

