

Military Must Prep Now for ‘Mutant’ Future, Researchers Warn  - cyphersanctus
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/pentagon-prepare-mutant-future/

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jpxxx
The only mortal threat to the US military is a cut in their trillion dollar
budget. This super-soldier horseshit belongs in comics.

~~~
mtgx
It's surprising that very few people even question how the military got from a
$200 billion budget to almost a trillion in a little over a decade. And most
in Congress seem to be keen to automatically increase their budget every year,
and not even investigate if some of the money is being wasted.

Bill Binney, the NSA whistleblower, said that he could build a project for
less than $10 million, but the NSA bosses rejected it, because they wanted to
buy a similar project for $4 _billion_ instead.

And this is just one example exposed by one whistleblower (not through
official means). Imagine how many other such examples must exist, and how many
projects are being overpaid by 10x-100x simply because it's taxpayers' money
and nobody bothers to check how these guys are spending it.

~~~
scarmig
This is definitely on the paranoid side of things, but... I suspect a line
item for $4 billion dollars on a $10 million project doesn't mean $3.99
billion is being wasted on corruption and inefficiency. I'd guess it's more
likely that at least half of that is going to secret projects that they
(definitely a mysterious anonymous THEY) want to keep off the books.

~~~
mburns
No, they already have a black budget for that. Or the CIA drug companies to
funnel money through, for that matter.

The idea that we overspend on Hammers and Toilet seats is poorly thought out
and repeatedly debunked. There is no need to jump through such silly hoops to
pay for projects that are super-duper secret.

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nnq
Dexedrine is sooo last century! Can't wait to hear about Borne Legacy [1] like
things like using viruses to fix/improve one's genes. Though considering the
rightful medical uses of such technologies, having them and keeping them
secret considering military applications would kind of count as... genocide!

 _The worst thing of this bio-enhancement arms race will probably be that
dozens of technologies with medical applications that could save millions of
lives will end up being kept secret due to their military applications. This
could be the true main cost of such an arms race!_

[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bourne_Legacy_(film)#Plot>

~~~
readme
I stopped reading when they exaggerated the effects of the amphetamines given
to the pilots. It's unfortunate that accidents happen during war, and actually
that war happens at all.

But if I were a pilot having to fly over 10 hours, you bet I'd take
amphetamines too. Unless they can fit an espresso machine in the cockpit.

~~~
jQueryIsAwesome
There is a drug called modafinil, is not an amphetamine in the strict sense of
the word but it can keep you awake for many hours, is used to treat narcolepsy
and its already being used in the military.

~~~
sp332
Also known as Provigil. It has some serious side-effects
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Side_effects> and requires a
prescription in the US (Schedule IV controlled substance). However adrafinil
is currently unregulated in the US, and your liver will metabolize it into
modafinil with a half-life of about 1 hour.

~~~
jQueryIsAwesome
4500 mg single dose don't kill a human (recommended dose is 200mg); strong
side-effects are an exception and not the norm.

~~~
sp332
I know side effects are the exception but they exist, even at normal doses.
From the PDF linked from wikipedia: "Common side effects that can happen in
anyone who takes modafinil tablets include: •back pain •headache •nausea
•feeling nervous •stuffy nose •diarrhea •feeling anxious •dizziness •upset
stomach •trouble sleeping"

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davorb
They've been using metamphetamine and dexedrine since at least the 1940's.
Over 200 million pills were given to soldiers during WWII.

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371512/Nazis-fed-
sp...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371512/Nazis-fed-speed-
infantrymen-tested-cocaine-like-stimulant-concentration-camps.html)

[http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/methamphetamine-
his...](http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/methamphetamine-history.html)

~~~
mistercow
Wow, those are some... some sources there. A tabloid and one of Scientology's
recruiting tentacles.

~~~
abduhl
Dexedrine is used pretty widely by the US military. If you've ever heard of
"go or no-go pills" then you've heard of uppers being used by the Air Force.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine>

~~~
mistercow
I wasn't specifically arguing the facts, but having the facts right is no
excuse for having terrible sources.

In fact, dexedrine is _not_ methamphetamine. It's related, but it's a
different drug.

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Zenst
Not a great choice of title given to apes and monkeys we look like mutants.

But the article is about artificial enhancments and perhaps the
bongionic(Bong+Bionic) man may have been a better choice, even if it is a made
up word (all words start somewhere). I say bongionic as it is about
`enhancment drugs` (all drugs enhance, some enhance drowiness or lower states
of mind, just some positive definition used for sheep fashion) and borg like
augmentation and the ethics and moral aspects.

Given we have some standards even in war like chemical weapons are bad and
torture of prisoners being bad. Also the aspect of a soldier surrendering in a
posion cloud would kind of break both those standards. In general we have
certain weapons that we agree should not be used on each other. Sadly thought
that does not stop them being done in secret or in other forms and `tested` on
our own people, as highlighted about the testing of LSD in the article.

That all said, dispite the morals, this type of finance of research projects
does have a positive outcome for the populus. It's just at what price we think
is right.

But researchers are great at telling you that they want the next set of
research funding targeted at, subliminal meme selling at its best even. I do
wonder if you realy want to win a war, just send them lots of researchers to
help them and after a few years they wont be able to afford a war, win win
_chuckle_.

But the old saying about how war advances technology, it is also the
possibilities of war that help keep some extra momentum. They also say it was
war technology that put a man on the moon; Though they never mention the
technology that got them back.

Bottom line, they may not create a superhuman they want, but they certianly
will create some cures for other now and happening issues in health as a
sideline.

I'm also reminded of a Star Trek TNG episode <http://en.memory-
alpha.org/wiki/The_Hunted_(episode)>

The question from that is can you restore the soldier to normal and with that
we have a track record of being very slow to spot and treat the signs of even
mental negative changes of ex soldier (though getting better every day). Not
sure how you can improve some aspects behind having a heads up display and
enhanced vision turning all hostiles into mario or the like to obviscate the
emotional impacts later on. Does raise many question, but these are in many
ways issues we have today still and with that we will just end up building
nanobot armies in the end, too what end I'm not sure anybody knows or wants to
find out. But they want to do it, that war technology research and costs, both
fiscaly and moraly have a very undefined standard which we can only guess
upon.

~~~
kiba
War advances technology is like saying business needs advances technology.

Both of those statement are true. So what?

 _Bottom line, they may not create a superhuman they want, but they certianly
will create some cures for other now and happening issues in health as a
sideline._

Technological development tend to have side effects. It's completely normal.
Bitcoin have a side effect on the development of decentralized DNS system,
which we won't adopt until there's significant ongoing censorship.

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jt2190
The article's main point (emphasis mine):

    
    
      > “With military enhancements and other technologies, the 
      > genie’s already out of the bottle: the benefits are too 
      > irresistible, and the military-industrial complex still 
      > has too much momentum,” Lin says in an e-mail. *“The best 
      > we can do now is to help develop policies in advance to 
      > prepare for these new technologies*, not post hoc or after 
      > the fact (as we’re seeing with drones and cyberweapons).”
    

To get a sense of the kind of moral and ethical issues raised by new combat
technologies and techniques, I recommend watching the documentary "The Fog of
War"[1].

[1] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgA98V1Ubk8>

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lostlogin
>>Tweaked troopers could run afoul of international law, potentially sparking
a diplomatic crisis every time the U.S. deploys troops overseas. << Err..
Because US troop deployments are usually incident free?

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jfaucett
asside from the ethical concerns, we're not actually as near to achieving this
as the article seems to suggest, at least from my undergrad studies in
chem/bio (not an expert, I'd like to hear what a researcher in this field has
to say). The problem with gene inhancement is the off switch, we can inject a
virus and overwrite some DNA that tells muscles to grow more, but containing
it or making it stop is the problem, also the massive array of side-effects
and unforeseen outcomes of altering specific DNA sequences is still a concrete
problem.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
This sounds like a plea for DARPA blue sky funding more than a near-term
warning - and even the specific example (Blue-on-blue air attack) is common
enough most of us know the terms and can think of examples.

Sorry - we can certainly inject a few poor souls with various compounds but
there is a world of difference between a coked-up weight lifter with weaponry
and an effective soldier who can choose targets and not commit atrocities
during withdrawal.

Want to make super soldiers - train them constantly and expensively, have
clear objectives and morally acceptable enemies (this is a big one IMO) and a
support network of medical and friendships to help cushion the horrors. Its
called special forces - and its expensive.

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ytNumbers
I guess the future really will be just like Star Trek.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunted_(Star_Trek:_The_Next...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunted_\(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation\))

~~~
Zenst
Reminded me of that episode as well, one of my favorite and so very apt with
regards too this subject. One hand we want enhanced humans and on another we
want machines but control of them. Bit like Surrogates
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0986263/> would be the balance.

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bjhoops1
We just need those plastic guns that deliver the drug which takes away mutant
powers.

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nerdfiles
Eh. I've been using magnets to mitigate PTSD and other persistent pains. LSD
and shrooms have been instrumental in the development of many of my psionic
abilities.

It wasn't until I tripped methylone that I realized that I probably shouldn't
share my gifts with too many people.

But now they're labeling "HPDD": persistent hallucinogenic experience surely
must be a bad thing. This country is buggered. Period.

~~~
nitid_name
wut

~~~
nerdfiles
I can perform various minor psionic tasks. Most shocking of them is the
ability to imitate speech; sometimes it is outside of my control because it is
of an empathic nature.

~~~
tdoggette
Have you considered testing these abilities in a controlled environment?

~~~
nerdfiles
Yes.

At the same time, I'm only recently discovered some of them. For instance, the
speech imitation ability can be spontaneously triggered. Sometimes I find
myself running from a social situation because once I think about the ability,
I become hyperaware of my opportunity to do it.

Bear in mind that I am not loony. I realize I am saying "WAT"-able stuff here.
Some of the things I am currently able to do, I simply do not want others to
know. It's frightening, and I'm not quite sure what the proper channels are
for some of these things. It's almost comic book-esque; and it's wacky, even
when I reflect in my own mind, that I am able to do some of these things.
Developing the words to express it to others is challenging. What's more, for
some of these things, I'm not even sure what to call it, so that I might do my
own research.

Considering the threat level of all of this as well (see OP), I obviously
don't want to run off tattling to my local state representative. (I was living
in Texas, so that probably would've been Rick Perry or something. Most of the
people of the South U.S. would probably pull a gun on me if I showed them some
of these abilities, talents, whatever you want to call them.)

All of that aside: Imagine trying to live a normal life with this kind of
thing going on. I'm nearly at wits end just trying to fit in on a daily basis.
It's not all "cool! get prize money!" These are difficult emotional problems
as well that I have lived with since childhood.

Might I ask you, if you were in such a position, how would you prioritize your
life? (Kids who grow up upper class and probably with parents who taught them
lots of science likely will shout "Cool! let's test!" But low income kids who
have been beaten and ridiculed on account of such varied dispositions likely
would want to conceal themselves. Is this not obvious? And is this not a trope
of comic books and TV drama? Oh how quickly we forget the X-men.)

~~~
dhimes
Hrmm. I thought you were kidding. So I ask: what do you mean by "speech
imitation?" I can do that too, but it involves my mouth and vocal cords.

~~~
nerdfiles
I can highly accurately imitate a person in real-time as they speak.

It's "empathic"; as I understand it, it really is just reading body movements
and reading the person. However, I can also maintain focus on a multitude of
sound stimuli such that when doing this, I can specifically focus on the
person. If I focus, my mind wanders or becomes more autonomous. It's like
parallel processing. As I said, I don't really even have the language for this
particular ability. It becomes "mind reading" once I realize that I am
maintaining the conversation while tracking their words spoken and future
words. It's like a thief leaving _too much_ evidence at the scene of the
crime; in this case, it is emotional and non-verbal evidence. Parroting the
person, then, becomes something that I do incidentally on top of being able to
hypermentalize about that person, or really any number of other things.

