
Ask HN: How do I make sure my non-technical parents are safe online? - nellypat
I don&#x27;t want them to become victims of phishing, hacking, ... any ideas? Any ideas how I could prevent these?
======
wittedhaddock
I work for a phone company, Community Phone, whose majority customers are
seniors. We periodically check in with our customers over text message
(helping make sure they achieve their goals, like using Uber, or whatever...
which is our business: to enable an improvement in overall quality of life via
phones, rather than phones in themselves). As a result, many of our customers
FB message/call/email/text us as a sanity check any time they receive
solicitation online. It's a service we happily provide, but it does require
them to reach out to us, as opposed to us knowing when to intervene. Other
than that, I will be monitoring this thread very closely for more general and
automated solutions. Thanks very much for asking this question.

~~~
jakecopp
I've never imagined a phone company that aims to improve overall quality of
life using phones, rather than just providing mobile service, fascinating to
think about.

Are customers able to opt out of additional support and if so do any choose
to?

~~~
mcv
I imagine it's not the cheapest phone company due to the additional service,
so if you're not using it, you might be wasting money.

In any case, I think it's good that there are phone companies that compete on
quality service rather than price, and specialised service for a specific
demographic makes a lot of sense.

~~~
wittedhaddock
You don't have to imagine! We're $15 a month for unlimited talking and
texting, and each gigabyte is $5. Or in other words, we beat Google Fi by $5.
Support is our marketing budget, and it works rather well :)

------
agf
The number one thing you can do to help them is talk to them about being
conned / scammed. That's by far the most likely way for them to get victimized
online, and the only way that's seriously affected anyone I know.

Since they're not technical, their natural self-defense against this kind of
this has trouble functioning online. Talk to them about real world analogs to
pop-up ads that look like virus scanner alerts, talk to them about people
pretending to be someone they know. Hell, show them the movie "Catch me if you
can" and explain the same psychological tactics get used online.

Get them to consider "what do I really know, and is this too good to be true"
before they talk to anyone, click a link, or buy anything online -- and they
will be fine, if their judgement is otherwise unimpaired.

If they're very late in life, or otherwise have trouble with this kind of
thing in the real world, there is unfortunately not much you can do to help
them, other than force them to only use pre-installed apps on a tablet that
you've selected, like you might with a small child. If they're not willing to
do that, then it's unfortunately on them. I've had this experience both with
my grandfather and a friend who lives with a brain injury, who are responsible
for themselves but don't have the judgement necessary to realize how impaired
they are.

And of course, make sure the computer is auto-rebooting to get updates, and
they know to call you if they get a virus / malware popup they think could be
real.

~~~
nitwit005
Based on my father and grandmother's interactions, suggesting they call if
ever in doubt can be a big help. What saved her from the fake Microsoft
support scam was her calling him to ask if she should go to someone cheaper to
help with the non-existant issue.

Offering to do her taxes prevented some other scam. Although that did require
flying out annually due to being so disorganized.

~~~
erklik
> Based on my father and grandmother's interactions, suggesting they call if
> ever in doubt can be a big help.

However, do understand, that this can lead to the opposite effect of
constantly calling on every little thing leading to them becoming even more
dependent on you.

~~~
adrianN
Better dependent on you than losing their life savings to a scammer.

------
xhrpost
This just almost happened to me and my family. My parents are pushing 70 but
still try to keep up with things. My father decides he wants to call PayPal
regarding a return request from eBay. I'm in the room and "PayPal" tells him
they need to go to a secure line and he needs to download an app. That's
really strange I think, but generally scams are from phone calls to you, not
you making the call. So I remain skeptical but don't immediately act. They
want him to install TeamViewer which is for remote access. I search online to
see if PayPal legit does this, nothing comes up. As the obvious over seas
person with a thick accent says "oh is this your bank account?" I rip the
phone out of my father's hands. End call, turn off data to end TeamViewer
session. Need to turn on data to uninstall it (seriously Android?). Then
proceed to have him show me where he got the number. He had searched Google
for "phone number for PayPal". Somehow, someone got an ad at the top of that
list. So he clicked the ad, not realizing that he's not on PayPal's site.
Thank God I just happened to be in the room while on vacation (I live in
another state now) when this happened, but what to do moving forward? He
actually uses a completely separate bank account for PayPal but he still had a
lot of money in there.

~~~
marcolussetti
I think installing an AdBlocker is one of the first things I do when asked to
help someone. While I understand and regret the impact on people's business
models, it seems to really mitigate issues for those less tech-savy
(anecdotally that is). Something like uBlock Origin or the like might be a
good idea to avoid this issue.

~~~
robgibbons
I install Privacy Badger and uBlock Origin for my Mom's computer. I also
showed her how to disable them temporarily if a site isn't working as she
expects.

~~~
mosselman
I find, after some testing, that Privacy Badger has quite some impact on the
speed with which pages load, think around 1 second in some cases, which I find
a lot. I therefore recommend against this setup, which I have run for months
now, after finding out about the performance impact. Instead I'd recommend
using Firefox with its built-in blocking and adding ublock origin to that.

------
barbecue_sauce
Keep them offline. Get them smartphones, preferably iOS. Educate them about
scams.

My parents still conduct the majority of their personal business offline, and
though I have scoffed at this in the past, it makes more sense for them and
also keeps them safe. Their bills come in the mail, and its not uncommon for
them to go to a department store and pay the bill for that chain's credit card
in person. They meet with their financial advisor in person at their house,
and it's someone they've worked with for decades. They keep all of their
important documents (social security cards, birth certificates, passports) in
a safety deposit box at a local bank. All of their insurance agents are local,
and they meet with them at their cluttered, homey offices. They call the
hotlines for their primary credit cards fairly often, and listen for
fraudulent charges.

Their online experiences are mediated through things like Facebook. They get
e-mail, but I have them set up to use smart clients that filter out the most
pernicious stuff. If they think something sounds fishy, they will ask me to
look at it for them. Any digital documents (airline tickets, hotel
reservations) they want to save go to both the Apple Cloud (which they can
occasionally do, though I have to help) and to the printer so they can keep
records.

The only downside of this is the sheer amount of mail they receive, and the
difficulty of finding hard copies of documents despite their best efforts to
file things. Even their mail is somewhat protected, though, as they live in a
gated retirement community.

~~~
LeonM
> Get them smartphones, preferably iOS

As much as I dislike Apple and their ecosystem, iOS is the way to go. But I
went with tablets over phones, just for practicality with browsing and such.

With an iPad (as opposed to an Android tablet) I don't have to worry about
them installing some fake app. It also helps a that anyone can figure out iOS
(although it has gotten more complex over the years).

I've also installed Pi-hole at my parent's house. Not just to protect them
from misleading stuff, but also because overly aggressive ads can be very
confusing. I've once had my mom tell me her tablet was broken, because she
couldn't visit the news, it turned out to be a giant overlay ad that she
couldn't figure out how to close.

Lastly, I have migrated their ISP based email account (dating back to the
early 90's) to a gmail inbox so they can benefit from the (mostly excellent)
spam and fraud detection features of gmail. Their ISP offered no spam
detection at all. It still uses the same email address though, I just routed
it through gmail.

The government here in the Netherlands ran some great TV commercials
instructing you to hang up the phone and call back if you got a call that you
didn't trust. And another TV commercial on how to check the URL and
certificate if you are on your banking website. I'm very grateful for that, it
already saved my dad once from a phishing attack.

~~~
panpanna
> With an iPad (as opposed to an Android tablet) I don't have to worry about
> them installing some fake app.

Ohhh you would be surprised of the amount of fake apps on iPad!!

I know an old couple who burned a good amount of money on their new iPad
trying to install some app they knew from Android (something not available
ipad, I think it was WhatsApp).

------
PakG1
Honestly, while getting phished and hacked are big issues, I would also worry
about them being sucked into social media bubbles where they could start
latching onto conspiracy theories, fake news, and the like. It was not too
long ago where their generation believed it was a bad idea to believe anything
on the Internet. I'm not sure what changed. I have seen my own parents fall
suspect to that stuff now and then, so it does scare me.

~~~
bradleyankrom
Advice I could have used five years ago. I don’t even know how to talk to my
parents about current events/politics now because we don’t share a common base
of facts.

~~~
Consultant32452
The hardest part of broaching this problem is learning to accept that, as a
percentage, you're probably just as wrong about the facts as your parents are.
Everyone likes to think that it's only "those people" who are foolish, subject
to conspiracy, or other negative descriptors. Statistically, that's just not
realistic. And even if you're 100% right, approaching people with the
humbleness of assuming you're 80% wrong will allow you to have better
conversations.

~~~
mosselman
> you're probably just as wrong about the facts as your parents are.

It depends on the subject. If you believe that climate change doesn't exist,
that we never went to the moon or that the earth is flat, you are just plain
wrong and I am right.

------
franga2000
My no. 1 thing is to always install and ad blocker in their browser. uBlock
does a pretty good job of getting rid of all the fake download buttons and
pop-ups.

And tell them explicitly that if their computer tells them they have a virus,
they must not try to do anything about it and call you immediately. 99% of the
time it's a fake pop-up and they don't want to look stupid so they follow its
"friendly instructions" to "get rid of it" and end up making a mess.

Other than that, take away their admin privileges, set up 2AM auto-updates (or
manual, if you're there often) and tell them to only store personal files in
one specific directory, which is synced to something with CoW or daily backups
(and then also sync the desktop just in case).

As for e-mail, I set up my grandparents with one e-mail for people they know
and a gmail for everything else (like website registrations). That way, the
personal address never* gets any spam.

~~~
macns
what is CoW?

~~~
mceachen
Copy on Write, presumably to save them from crypto-locking ransomware.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoLocker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoLocker)

~~~
baroffoos
Its the backups that save you from crypto malware.

~~~
franga2000
True, but I have yet to find a reason to prefer full (or even incremental)
backups over CoW. Full backups are just too big and slow, and good reliable
open-source and cross-platform incremental backup software is hard to find.

I've found using Syncthing for Client-->NAS-->Off-site with BtrFS snapshots on
both servers to be just perfect (of course, YMMV).

~~~
mceachen
> good reliable open-source and cross-platform incremental backup software is
> hard to find

I've been using rsnapshot for at least a decade, and it's available wherever
perl and hard links are available (which isn't windows, at least pre-WSL).

------
maxxxxx
Also tell them about phone scams. Over the last year I have received several
very convincing phone calls and voice messages from people pretending to be
the IRS or cops. It takes a lot of willpower to convince yourself that they
are scams.

A lot of scams can be stopped if you consult with someone before sending
actual money. I think it's important to tell your parents that before they
give anybody any money or account numbers or buy gift cards (a lot of scammers
make people buy gift cards and then give them the number) they should talk to
you first. And tell them that there is nothing legitimate that ever requires
you to pay NOW. Scammers are really good at pressuring people to act
immediately instead of asking somebody.

~~~
defen
My in-laws got hit by an absolutely ridiculous phone scam. Basically some guy
called and said "Hey this is Apple, this is an emergency, your iCloud got
hacked, you need to install this remote desktop software and give me your
credit card info so I can fix it for you". They are smart people but they
still fell for it. So, the advice we gave them was that _no_ organization is
going to use a phone call to deliver important or urgent information. So if a
call like that comes in, just ignore it or ask for a call-back number and then
try to verify it by asking us. If a company or government agency truly wants
to convey important info to you, they'll send mail.

~~~
maxxxxx
They often have call back numbers from what I have heard.

~~~
defen
Yeah, you have to verify the number through an independent system.

------
PascLeRasc
Maybe this is off-topic, but everything I know about personal security I
learned from my mom. She gets spam calls like we all do, claiming to be health
insurance or the IRS or something, and she'll always hang up, look up the
right phone number, and call that back and see if there really is anything
going on. Same with emails, she doesn't click links but instead goes to the
website independently and logs in there. She taught me that if it's actually
your health insurance or credit card company calling, they'll already have
your information, so asking for your SSN or address is a red flag.

She's "not technical", which means she's a librarian instead of a software
engineer, but she still knows much more than me about online security, and I'd
bet most of our parents are kinda the same. She "runs" an iPhone and a
Chromebook, which I think is the best setup for most people.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
There are some phone numbers where you have to pay to call them, and so there
is a current scam where you call people just to get them to call you back, and
you'll have to pay.

~~~
lcabral
I think he meant the mother would lookup the actual phone number in the yellow
pages and call that number.

------
djhworld
I'm really surprised at the replies in this thread, some are almost
patronising.

Parents might be old, but they're not dumb. People underestimate older people.

Obviously there are some vulnerable adults that need a helping hand, I get
that, but try just talking and teaching, it works wonders.

The key is patience really.

~~~
dontbenebby
>Parents might be old, but they're not dumb. People underestimate older
people.

They aren't dumb, but many in that generation are willfully ignorant.

There was a great article in the NYT recently titled "Why high class people
get away with incompetence":

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/20/science/social-class-
conf...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/20/science/social-class-
confidence.html)

If you've gone your entire life being able to bluster away criticism or force
someone to do things for you ("delegate"), it can lead to a type of person who
is not teachable, and when they inevitably suffer a breach will blame everyone
but themselves.

~~~
discordance
It's not about parents being dumb. Some of these attacks are very manipulative
and convincing.

------
murkle
Can recommend Chromebook from personal experience.

Auto-updates painlessly. Probably worth getting one with touchscreen and
ability to run Android Apps. I've just updated my mum's one to Acer Chromebook
R11 CB5-132T (old one was no longer getting updates after c. 5 years)

~~~
heywire
Chromebooks are great, but there is certainly still some risk if extensions
are enabled. My daughter was having problems with her Chromebook, and I found
that a bunch of shady extensions had been installed (I had a flashback to the
90's and toolbars). Apparently they were masquerading as games and themes.

~~~
cpncrunch
I think Chromebooks are about as safe as you can get these days. There is a
limited amount of damage that can be done with extensions, especially now that
they can only be installed via the chrome web store, and inline installations
are blocked. AFAIK it's impossible to do stuff like steal credit cards or
install a keylogger via an extension.

------
shuckles
Similar to how I’d protect young children: get them an iPad, pre-install
essential apps, whitelist some web domains, and require your authorization for
any new app installs or domain whitelisting. You’ll find that their web
browsing actually is limited to a few domains, and they should never learn to
bank, etc. outside the apps.

~~~
lostlogin
Thanks - good idea. Adding in a Pihole has been good for me - keeps the ads
and pop ups to a minimum.

------
dazhbog
I scared them a lot initially (run away from exes, read all the things, never
press next without reading), told them to Google everything before asking and
a little bit of shouting to them. Also did a lot of explaining to them of what
the green lock means, incognito, email attachments, etc. (essentially, that
they are never safe online).

From my side I made sure all their browsers had ad-blockers. Also tried Ubuntu
with them, but they preferred windows.

Few years later, my mom can now boot into Ubuntu if a family computer has a
blue screen many times and run a hardware check and tells everyone, "google
it!" when they ask her for questions. They also are way more confident now and
don't fall for as many shit as before. I mean, they used to copy shortcuts to
floppies, thinking they copied the whole program, and got scared of ads that
the FBI was watching them, and that they had to pay.

Parents are 60 something, so I guess its never too late to teach them. In
contrast however, my younger aunts are unteachable, like bricks, so it really
depends on the character as well.

------
chrisdsaldivar
Just yesterday my mom called me asking me to check the logged in devices list
on her email. She hasn’t been able to login and found out it had been hacked
so she had to reset her password. I logged all the devices out and finally got
her to stop using her last name as her password and we changed all of her
passwords.

So, after years of my sister and me trying to get her to have proper passwords
it took her getting hacked and seeing a bunch of failed spam emails to finally
change her passwords. Maybe people reading this could “hack” their parents
themselves so they could take security seriously. Yeah it’s lying but it’s
safer than letting it happen organically.

~~~
mceachen
I couldn't get my Dad off Windows, even though he kept getting malware and
viruses and ask his helpdesk (me) to repair the damage (which meant hours of
formatting and reinstalling windows and N apps and ...). Inertia and "but this
is the way I do it" are hard to fight.

FWIW, if you're running Google Apps for your family email, you can require a
certain level of password quality, and force-reset the offending passwords.

------
elchief
I locked down my dad's laptop. He thought it was broken so threw it out and
bought a new one...sigh

~~~
rmtech
what did you do to it???

------
Endy
Thankfully, my parents were technical back in the days of BASIC & CP/M.

So basically it comes down to making sure that the UI/UX they (and I tbh) like
sticks over updates. As such, we've moved completely away from Firefox to
Palemoon (with a "classical" theme), from Office & OpenOffice to LibreOffice,
and to minimalist Windows theming to keep it looking like, well, Windows.

I use either uBlock or Adblock Latitude & Greasemonkey with the Aaklist setup,
and Disconnect / Ghostery. They also have Avast! & MalwareBytes on their
machines and I have a ClamAV client set up on a scheduled task.

As far as them getting phishing emails... they're not stupid. They've been
seeing spam email since Prodigy and haven't fallen for more than one scam in
that time (long story but it didn't hurt us monetarily). Oh, and if they're
not sure, they ask me - or they search (using DuckDuckGo or Exalead, not
Google) to figure out if it's real.

~~~
throw28943away
If you have uBlock Origin[1] you don't need Aaklist, Disconnect or Ghostery.
Even with it's default settings, uBlock Origin will circumvent anti-adblock
and will block more tracking then Disconnect and Ghostery combined.

In uBlock Origin's settings, I recommend enabling all filter lists under
"Malware Domains" to block malware & scam websites.

[1]Chrome: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpa...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm) Firefox:
[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-
origin...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/)

I believe uBlock Origin can be installed for Palemoon as well.

------
vmurthy
In the world of tech consulting, consultants follow a model called PPT: People
, process , technology. Recognise that people are the weakest link. Like many
commenters mentioned, please educate your parents not to fall for common
scams. Ask them to call you in case they receive a call/e-mail from IRS!
Process : Is there a low-fee/no-fee debit card you can setup for them with
probably a 100$ or so for their casual shopping? Worst case they only lose
that much. Technology: What is their use-case? If it is casual
surfing/FaceTime/Skype, can you set them up with an iPad Pro/iPad with ad-
blockers of course. if iPad is out of question, how about an Ubuntu Laptop
with Firefox and Ad-blockers? The way I look at it, Ubuntu keeps a lot of
virii at bay and certainly any "Microsoft" call-center scams! You need to only
watch out for phishing scams.

------
bahmboo
Lots of good stuff in this thread. I'll add: introduce the tech into their
lives yourself. Don't wait for them to call you and tell you they just bought
a laptop at Bestbuy (just for example). Educate them, appeal to their already
built in BS detectors. Pay attention and answer their technical support calls
:) [also Apple store and Bestbuy are usually great customer service resources]

edit: if there are grandchildren around, get them involved in the project

------
hexmiles
Honestly consider having them offline. I have the same problem and my only
solution is me being their proxy for internet. When they need something
"online" like movie o buying something, they ask me.

Today most thing happen via a browser instead of programs and it's basically
impossible to secure.

Consider using a tablet/smartphone instead of a computer. Apps are a little
better than website in term of being "safe". By using something like privacy
guard (feature of lineageos) and disabling the browser and email you can keep
reasonably safe.

That's what i did. Bought them a tablet, install what they needed (netflix,
amazon etc...) and a app for remote control, like teamviewer, disabled browser
and playstore, and basicaly everything else. For anything else they call me.

It's not amazing but it work.

Desktop computer are, for me, a lost cause.

------
Zenst
Chromebook would be the easiest route, then you have parental filters, which
is ironic as they were born out of a need for parents to help protect their
children. Today, that terminology needs revisiting - clearly.

I would equally suggest two email addresses - one for banking, one for
everything else.

But do look at further education courses as many a local authority in some
capacity offers training in some form (speaking about the UK here). Some banks
also offer assistance in online safety courses.

But online safety today, is alas very much akin to the level of safe sex
education in the 60's.

I would suggest showing them some youtube videos of people handling phone
scammers - entertaining and educational.

But above all - tell them if they are in any doubt, to shout and call you.
Remember your peace of mind is worth a few phone calls.

------
lechienquipete
Multiple ideas.

The best one hands down was installing an ad blocker. Before that I had a few
questions about "Is this thing saying I won an iPhone real? It seems to good
to be true", now they don't even see it anymore.

The second is separate hardware for authentication. The bank login and wire
transfer to an unknown account requires them to punch an 8 digit number on a
card reader, and type back the result in the browser. This way, there can't be
any full compromise.

Last one was education: snail mail scams were a thing in the past (I had no
idea when they told me about it, which is quite humbling really). Draw the
parallels: unless it's someone you know, they could be trying to take
advantage of you.

So far it worked, no issues to report.

------
w8rbt
Get them a linux laptop, or a ChromeBook and enable 2FA on their Google
accounts.

~~~
system2
NEVER get them a linux laptop. ChromeBook is fine. Linux can be very advanced
even for a regular starbucks user.

~~~
Thinkx220
My dad is in his mid 60s and has been happily using Ubuntu for the better part
of a year. He now no longer has to worry about most malware or windows updates
interrupting his workflow. I think you are really overestimating the
complexity of using Linux as a normal user.

~~~
pinusc
This. Choose the right distro (ubuntu or derivatives, or elementaryOS) and
it's as easy as windows for everyday tasks.

And for not-everyday tasks, you can just ssh in and fix it for them.

------
maerF0x0
This Q has me projecting into the future and thinking how I'd like to be
treated and what's likely to mess me up when I am 75... Probably something
like getting a virus in my Oculus and not realizing I'm not interacting with
reality or something. Lucid dream tests may come in handy at that point...

Anyways, FWIW I've told my mom to always ask to call back if the bank or other
financial groups call. And then to either 1) call the number on her physical
card or google it and call that number.

------
jypepin
Lots of good advice in here, and on point I'd like to add is.. that's not only
for older people. The question mentions parents and most answers reply to that
- don't forget that HN people are good at tech not because we are younger, but
because we are interested by it.

My wife, despite being a designer working in tech, would be as easily tricked
as an older person new to the internet. So keep that in mind and think about
safety for everyone, not only elder people.

------
frereubu
There's lots of good advice here, but one thing I see mentioned often is "get
them on to operating system X." Age plays a factor in this - much as I love
macOS I wish I hadn't switched my mother (88 now, around 80 when she switched)
from Windows. She'd learned personal computing with Windows, and there are
still things that trip her up with macOS, including basic things like
differences between Windows Explorer and Finder. There are trade-offs - I've
been on macOS for a long time so fixing issues is easy, remote desktop is
seamless, and the risk of viruses is lower - but overall I think the costs
have outweighed the benefits. Setting her up with a password manager would be
even more discombobulating, but thankfully she doesn't use online (or even
telephone) banking, or social media, otherwise I'd insist. She also knows that
she can phone me or forward emails if she's not sure about something, and so
far has been canny about spotting things like "your PayPal account needs re-
authorisation" scams.

------
srndh
I actually came to Hacker news to ask the same the question.

My Dad travelling to a different country for a month and the mobile network
there was VOLTE, while at home its 3G. The phone (iphone 7) was having some
issue and I was unable to help him. He took the phone to mobile shop and that
guy installed a 3rd party app & made him put a passcode.

Actually the last time we travelled together & we both used that mobile
network and there was no issue. So, there was no reason to put a passcode.

The issue is that when my dad has an issue, he tries to describe it to me and
does not read to me exactly what he sees on the screen. It would be great if
there was a remote desktop like I could see his device via my device and help
him also. Also, have an admin account on the phone so that admin privileges
are needed to install apps or even open the settings app.

In the past even my younger cousins or kids install apps (games or some hype
app that they feel everyone must have) on his phone.

------
karthie
going down the ios route is safest option.Pretty much in same boat as you
taught my dad on online bill payments and banking in iPad . Set up a password
manager and store all their personal information in there , make it available
via touch id. Chromebook and linux are still tech stuff which can not be
handled by elderly.

~~~
lotsofpulp
iOS/macOS with 1blockerX/1blocker and keychain has worked wonders for my
parents.

~~~
Nextgrid
I’d say use AdGuard instead of 1Blocker - the latter pretty much never updates
its blacklists.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Ublock Origin by gorhill is better, although the trouble with any ad-blocking
plugin being used by non-technical people is that they will occasionally break
a site and have no clue how to turn it off.

~~~
Nextgrid
This is for iOS though, where JavaScript-based plugins like uBlock don’t work
(and in fact JS-based plugins are deprecated on desktop Safari as well).

------
pugworthy
My father just turned 90, and my mother is 85. They both have Macs, as well as
iPhones. No landline phones at all. They've had a Mac since around 1990 when I
gave them my old Mac 128 that I'd upgraded to 512.

They LOVE the Internet. This morning I helped my dad install an antenna for a
HAM radio, and he needed to terminate some coax cables, so found a YouTube
video on how to do it. We watched it together and then did the cable.

My mom's an avid old time fiddling (violin but not classical) musician, and
likes to find videos, recordings, and music online. Also a lot of things about
knitting, plus finding podcasts to listen to.

That said, I worry about them. My father specifically. He's starting to have
cognitive problems, and his long standing (and good in the past) habit of
installing and trying things is starting to hurt his experience and his
computer.

First, I keep finding extensions in Safari that are injecting ads into his web
browsing - not sure where they come from.

Then the other day we found out Chrome and Firefox was completely uninstalled,
and Chromium was installed. My guess is he downloaded some "bundle" that had
it.

Then when his computer started getting slow, he found some "speed up your
computer" thing for just $70 - that ended up being Linux on a thumb drive, and
the idea was you boot from it, and your computer is now "faster". I tossed it
before he ever tried it.

So right now, I'm thinking of installing a limited (can't install things)
account for him on his Mac. Or turn on child protection settings.

So basically, his curiosity that's had him using a Mac since 1990 is his very
downfall with the computer now that he's having cognitive decline. Ironic in a
way.

Honestly it would be nice if someone like MS or Apple would make an "Elderly
Parent" mode to go along with Child Mode. Similar idea, but different needs.

~~~
dictum
Apple's "elderly mode" is the iPad.

(I know it's not the same as a Mac, even if you try hard, which nobody should.
However, the very things that make iOS more secure for some users are what
sets it apart from macOS, making it less flexible but more resilient.)

~~~
pugworthy
Not a bad suggestion. Combine with a Bluetooth keyboard and he can write his
long nightly emails.

The idea of "iPad mode" for a Mac is not bad. Basically it's very locked down,
but has the full advantage of mouse and keyboard along with large screen.

------
Cannibusted
Avoid Linux, Windows, etc.

For non tech users, iOS is pretty safe.

Ipad + iPhone and you're good to go. Leave the notebooks and PCs in the 80s
where they belong.

~~~
NextHendrix
Choice of operating system won't affect whether or not people type away their
details into random websites. Putting Windows and Linux in the same box and
pushing iOS over them is also puzzling. Why would someone's non-technically
literate parents happen to be running a Linux distribution on their personal
computers and why would that make them more susceptible to giving their
details away than running OSX?

~~~
scarface74
OS X - it wouldn’t make a difference. But, apps are tightly sandboxed with iOS
and it doesn’t even allow some of the permissions that Android does - like
intercepting phone calls and text messages.

------
dpcan
I email my mom several times a month with info about the different scams going
around. I hear about them all week because I help manage email servers, so we
are always changing passwords for people that tell us they were scammed by X,
Y, or Z.

The worst right now are the ones offering some kind of rebate or refund, and
then a really tricky one where they overpay and have you send money to another
"vendor" in the amount of the over-payment.

Elderly people where my wife works are constantly scammed by people telling
them they are due for their free cancer screening, or their "grandchild" is
asking them for bail money.

------
cornstalks
uBlock Origin has been useful when it comes to protecting my family computer.
There are so many hostile ads and websites out there. I highly recommend it
(or Pi-hole or some other good filtering tool).

~~~
throw28943away
Enable all filter lists under "Malware Domains" to protect them from
Malware/Scam sites.

uBlock Origin Chrome: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpa...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm) Firefox:
[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-
origin...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/)

------
idlewords
If you can manage it, get them set up with a security key for their Gmail and
Facebook accounts. You can do this unilaterally for them if it would be
overwhelming.

They won't need to use the keys if they stay on the same device all the time,
but it will have a big impact on anyone trying to steal their passwords.
Instructions here:
[https://techsolidarity.org/resources/security_key_gmail.htm](https://techsolidarity.org/resources/security_key_gmail.htm).

------
yakshaving_jgt
Everyone should educate their parents (and themselves) on the dangers of
Multi-Level Marketing. One of my parents very nearly got sucked into a MLM
scheme, and the most painful thing is if you say it's a bad idea, they assume
you mean that the MLM system is fine and that _they_ are just not
smart/dedicated enough to be successful.

There was a good Penn & Teller: Bullshit! episode on this, called 'Easy
Money'.

------
sandworm101
OpenDNS.

My parents machines, even the ones they buy without telling me, still connect
to the internet through their router. OpenDNS blocks requests for blacklisted
sites. It doesn't help their cellphones, but they are also under instructions
not to do any banking on their phones.

Adblock+Noscript

It helps. They sometimes have to call me when websites don't work but it
blocks the annoying popups that can sometimes confuse older people into scams.

~~~
throw28943away
Noscript is an interesting choice for "non-technical" parents, my
understanding was that Noscript was for -advanced- users.

------
adav
Set up a new iPad: \+ auto updating apps and OS \+ they don’t have the
password to install anything new \+ install the apps they need for them \+
auto backups to iCloud

Then drill it into them that they should “never click any link in an email for
any reason whatsoever. If the bank, for example, sends you a message with a
link then ignore the link, leave the email app and log in to the bank the
normal way to check the account.”

------
altharaz
My recipe is AdBlocks + automated updates enabled + firewall enabled + desktop
shortcut for web browser + regular antimalware check.

Regarding phishing, I set them up with a GMail account and their filter is
quite good against this.

So far, not anything bad happened, some minor malware were installed through
malicious web browser extensions, but no financial damage or identity theft.

~~~
rmetzler
One thing I would like to add: let them set long passwords [0], different ones
for each service and write them down in a dedicated notebook.

[0]: [https://xkcd.com/936/](https://xkcd.com/936/)

~~~
NationOfJoe
wouldn't a password manager be better then having them write down/re enter
long/complicated passwords?

~~~
altharaz
From my experience, the password manager is just another issue to solve for
this kind of people: it’s another software to use and these users do not like
to use software.

As a result, paper is sort of natural for them, and the only way I found to
impeach them from writing down their passwords is to make them use passphrases
instead of passwords.

They do remember the passphrases they typed in, however the issue is that some
websites still refuse passphrases because they are too long :(.

------
jukkakoskinen
Check out what we're building at Badrap
([https://badrap.io/](https://badrap.io/)). Our service is free, and you can
use it to monitor your and your parents' IP and email addresses for known
vulnerabilities and data breaches. Let me know if you have any questions. :)

------
x38iq84n
Manage their PC, apply good security measures to it (use pihole, browser
selection, disabling extensions, use extensions that prevent phishing). Teach
them elementary online security and how to use a password manager.

On a more OOtB note, have all their web traffic route via a web proxy that
will prevent phishing, MITMs, scan against viruses etc.

~~~
nemosaltat
Do you have a recommendation for such a proxy? Is this something that could be
accomplished at the router level without the need for additional configuration
or hardware (on their part). Ideally, I’d love to flash OpenWRT or similar
onto their router, enable some simple block lists and settings, and have
reasonable assurance they’re protected (at least on their home network).

As I’m writing thing, I wonder if there is a “senior mode” distro/plugin for
OpenWRT.

------
dcline1701
It breaks my heart seeing so many people talk about intelligence. It's not
intelligence that matters, it's sense (and experience). Highly intelligent
people often fall for scams that 10 high school dropouts wouldn't. My mother
is a reasonably computer literate R.N. yet I had to reformat her machine after
she fell for a scam. I'd be much less worried about my dad if he used a
computer (which he doesn't).

Also, on the Windows vs. Linux debate, a significant number of programs break
if you're not running Windows as admin. I just installed Bitdefender and you
can't do things like shut down protection to see if it broke something that
was working fine if your account isn't admin. Nobody calls this out one
Windows. Any programmed who did this on Linux would be hailed as the heir to
the throne of idiots.

------
themagician
The best out of the box solution I’ve found is eero with eero plus
subscription. It blocks ads at the router level as well as malware sites,
phishing sites, certain downloads, etc..

It’s not perfect, but better than anything else I’ve ever used. Also comes
with subscriptions to 1Password, Malwarebytes and Encrypt.me.

------
sebringj
A friend of mine who isn't young but not as old as my parents is a professor
and couldn't tell between a system alert and a fake one on a web page and
attempted to click it just before I stopped her. My parents recently received
a phone call concerning a problem about their google account and how to
"correct it" in which they were very obliged to "fix" the issue and it took
some undoing to get them out of that mess.

The point being...

There are training videos and certification tests for this sort of thing that
are required in government related PII jobs as social engineering is too easy
to fool people but its naive to think these tools will be used unless it was
tied to getting a retirement check etc. I guess just hand hold them on those
issue until they get it or give up?

------
ChuckMcM
It is an understandable wish, sadly it is not something you can control
without them living with you and having all of their outside world access go
through you.

This sad state of affairs because swindlers can get at them in many different
ways. I have a sign near the phone that says "If they are asking you to buy
gift cards hang up, what they have told you is a lie."

Of course online access is essential today, so it isn't easy to tell them they
don't get to use the computer. Or Facebook. Or NextDoor. Or any other social
media site. Or Chat service. Or other Forum.

There isn't any just "read only news" (no commenting) from sites with
journalists, maps, phone numbers. Kind of appliance that you can get them.

------
Causality1
I'd also like to add a simple thing a lot of us technical-minded folks don't
think about that much, and that's making sure the parent's daily driver user
account isn't an administrator. That shrinks the attack surface significantly.

------
marmot777
There's a concept called "security awareness" that the InfoSec experts talk
about a lot. It's basic course in staying safe online and, well, in the case
of companies, keeping the company safe as well. You might want to consider
running through some of that curriculum. I don't get the feeling it's long and
arduous to get through but it has been shown to help. It's far from full proof
because people can still make mistakes but it helps.

Also, of course, there are the usual things you can do to make their
computing/networking environment more secure, which I'm sure other commenters
have mentioned.

~~~
marmot777
Note: You will quickly find examples of what's taught with a web search. You
could do a stripped down version very quickly.

------
sent00001
Phishing is a big problem for non-technical users. Google's Phishing Quiz
([https://phishingquiz.withgoogle.com](https://phishingquiz.withgoogle.com))
is a surprisingly good resource.

~~~
shambolicfroli
Is there a good simple way that someone nontechnical could become confident
that withgoogle.com is a trustworthy domain?

~~~
bubblewrap
I am technical and I am not sure how to become confident that withgoogle.com
is a trustworthy domain. I guess I would look for official links from
Google.com to it. But why bother?

~~~
rmtech
It's not necessary to confirm that withgoogle is a real Google domain because
the page isn't asking for any information.

Of course it could have drive-by malware on it... but so could any link

------
jasoneckert
Three Dead Trolls and a Baggie did a video on this topic a while back:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9R-2X9Bl5w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9R-2X9Bl5w)

------
comprev
There's probably a large amount of seniors who "think" they know better - they
once understood computers (perhaps worked in technology) but no longer. My
father (75) falls into this demographic. He got conned TWICE (luckily the bank
stepped in and refunded - not huge amounts thankfully), although the second
time was malware (fake AV).

Perhaps it's a pride thing, but despite my warnings/offers to help avoid such
situations, he didn't pick up the phone and double-check with me.

Needless to say he's under strict instructions from my mother to run things by
me first now ha ha

------
nickjj
1\. Firefox

2\. U-block origin

3\. Let them know they shouldn't ever download files from an email (even from
relatives, because realistically non-technical people aren't sending each
other files over email and it's likely one of them has malware that is trying
to spread)

4\. Disable their mic / webcam (they are not going to use it anyways)

The 4th point isn't so much to prevent malware, but it's to protect their
privacy in case they somehow get compromised.

Since I've done all of the above, I haven't had to format a parent's machine
due to a virus or malware. They run Windows too.

------
an4rchy
I've been thinking about this problem for a while as well.

The somewhat oversimplified approach is to use iOS/Android devices with you in
charge of installing any new apps and also inbuilt adblockers. However this
still doesn't prevent email phishing.

The more restrictive option would be to use a router level / AdBlocker
whitelist for websites they can access.

Ex: Facebook, Google, YouTube, Utilities, Banks etc. This way any phishing
domain will get blocked. Obviously highly restrictive but probably the safest
bet. You can always add new sites as they need them.

------
skocznymroczny
Buy them a Chromebook/install ChromiumOS on their machine. Since it's a Linux
distribution, it will make them safe from most infected e-mail attachments.

------
tzs
I don't know if this is any good, but I've seen TV ads for a tablet and
service specifically meant for non-technical older people. It uses cellular
service so there is no need for them to even have WiFi. It's called
"GrandPad". Here is their FAQ [1].

[1] [https://www.grandpad.net/frequently-asked-
questions](https://www.grandpad.net/frequently-asked-questions)

------
DoreenMichele
Make them a list of hard "no" items.

Tell them no porn, no clicking on pop up ads, no cheezy viral articles with
click bait titles, etc.

If you can visit them in person, check their computer for malware.

Find out what they want to use the internet for and help them create a white
list. If they have enough safe ways to satisfy their needs, there is less
temptation to randomly venture forth into things they don't really understand.

~~~
yasth
If you are able to talk about porn and ban it with your parents (presumably
providing some alterate means, because you know they have needs), then well
congratulations that sounds like a very open and sharing relationship.

For the rest of us though...

~~~
DoreenMichele
I would just make a written checklist of hard "no" items and list porn on it.
If they call with a problem, ask "Were you clicking on a hard _no_ item?" and
don't get into whether or not it was porn.

If they call frequently because their computer is a giant mess of malware,
eventually tell them they need to educate themselves because your efforts to
keep them safe are proving insufficient.

If you honest to God can find no means to tell your parents that porn is a
really big problem with regards to technical safety online, then I suggest you
wash your hands of this issue and tell them you are wholly unqualified to help
them and maybe point them to some resources to help them sort it out
themselves. Hopefully, buried somewhere in those resources is the fact that
porn is a problem.

Otherwise you are doing more harm than good by giving them the illusion of
assistance when the real message is "Sorry, I can't actually protect you
because it might involve admitting my parents, who probably did the wild thing
to get me, might still have a sexuality." If that's the answer, don't pretend
to help. Just refer them elsewhere to someone willing to have that
conversation.

I will add that you need to know porn is an issue even if you don't consume
it. Advising them that porn is a problem doesn't actually presume they consume
it. I had to do a hard shut down of a laptop because I was moderating a forum
and someone posted a porn link. I wanted to do my due diligence and not just
assume. It opened a zillion popups and locked my computer up.

------
zuckburger
My parents are pretty old and technically illiterate. My absolute nightmare is
for them to wake up one day to an empty bank account. Right now, they double
check every financial email with me. We actually managed to thwart 3 phishing
emails this way!!! They are preying on seniors pretty hard. They usually get
the email addresses from online quizzes and other thin apps.

------
mondfar
My recomendation is create a block server for ads in this case pi hole is a
good option for all your devices (PC, Laptop, Smartphones, etc). For
navegation i recommend create user with control on windows, the reason is they
can't install apps or changes things in the system that compromise your
information or install addons infected in the browsers

------
thehogrammer
Computers are like cars, if you don't know how to use them safely, you
shouldn't be using them unsupervised.

------
beenBoutIT
The best way to do this would be to set up a program similar to a built-in
game that regularly tests them by presenting them with realistic situations
and gauging their response. Pen testing with built-in realtime negative
feedback of some kind when they make a mistake would keep them learning.

------
ram_rar
The only thing, I did for my mom was to install adblock plus in chrome/firefox
and taught her a thing or two about 2FA. I set that up for her bank accounts.
Most of her work gets done by Google products. Not that great for privacy, but
keeps her relatively safe.

~~~
throw28943away
Do not use adblock plus [1]. Instead, use uBlock Origin [2]

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16997272](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16997272)

[2] Chrome: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpa...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm) Firefox:
[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-
origin...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/)

------
dweekly
Once security keys are enrolled they are very easy to use and your parents can
frankly probably just keep them plugged into their computer. Between that and
antivirus with MacOS (or just using a Pixebook) that should cut down on a lot
of attack vectors.

------
tomjen3
Have them use a u2fa token (that you help them setup) for their important
accounts. Those are nearly, if not completely, impossible to phis and they are
relatively inexpensive and really simple to use.

------
dontbenebby
One basic thing is to get them to write down unique passwords and keep them in
a safe place. Even if they're not using 2FA, making sure losing one ≠ losing
all accounts is a big step.

------
a13n
Have them move all their account credentials to LastPass, and make sure every
password is unique. Set up two factor auth on all bank, email, social,
commerce accounts that allow it.

------
acconrad
Walk through privacytools.io with them for at least their browser and their
browser extensions, and possibly the email portion. That 30 min lesson may do
them years worth of good.

------
fghtr
Install Privacy Badger and HTTPS Everywhere in their browser.

------
z3phyr
My father checked his email in his employees computer, but forgot to log out.

He caught it when he saw searches of porn in his history

Both him and his employees did not even open private browsing!

------
catchmeifyoucan
Fakeblock works really well for this kind of stuff. It's a super nifty service
that a whiz kid from the Bay came up with. They are going to get invested by
the search campus up north soon. It uses state of the art privacy technology
and will also be used as part of the new wall proposal that's going through
congress. It should be able to protect against almost any kind of cyber
attacks.

------
neilv
One of the difficulties of keeping seniors safe on the Web is that that even
"the good guys" are doing dumb and harmful things (e.g., government office
gratuitously running dotcom cross-site trackers on gov't sites, or outsourcing
parts of site to companies that sell out private data), and "the good guys"
companies are often outright some of the most insidious exploiters.

Two of the barriers are:

1\. Most people of all ages don't actually understand the technology, and
instead mimic their peers (and do things like people they know tell them to
do, like install a particular thing to see photos). Both young and old people
make much the same mistakes here.

2\. Older people might come from times&places with different ideas of
respectability and sense of duty. They probably can't even imagine the
accepted sociopathy within the tech industry. Daughter/son went to work for
that nice company that does the right thing, and surely they're keeping an eye
on things (not systematically reading people's private messages, monitoring
every page everyone reads and thing they do, and encouraging bad security
practices that set up openings for other kinds of exploiters).

------
geofft
Shameless plug: I cohost a podcast about personal digital security, with a
target audience of people who aren't (necessarily) in tech but are interested
in understanding things and not just getting a pre-canned set of
recommendations like "Use a Chromebook" (or "Use Signal use Tor").
[https://looseleafsecurity.com](https://looseleafsecurity.com)

Some specific advice I'd give with relevant episodes:

\- Use a password manager [https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/securing-
your-online-...](https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/securing-your-online-
account-passwords.html) so you can use strong, unique passwords, and and set
up two-factor auth wherever possible (preferably with a security key)
[https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/two-factor-
authentica...](https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/two-factor-
authentication-and-account-recovery.html) so that you're protected from the
many possible attacks on passwords.

\- Get an unwanted content blocker (aka ad blocker) like uBlock Origin to
protect you against malicious ads, popups, etc., and/or a cross-site content
blocker like Privacy Badger to protect you from being tracked across websites
and also protect you against malicious embedded content.
[https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/web-security-
continue...](https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/web-security-continued-
cookies-plugins-and-extensions.html)

\- Set up backups, because it's the only reliable defense against ransomware,
and it's the best defense against your computer getting malware - it's easier
to wipe and start over than to try to pick out the malware (especially if
their child isn't around!).
[https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/backups.html](https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/backups.html)

\- Learn about how to protect yourself from malware. It's not clear today that
antivirus or similar software has enough benefit, and they often _introduce_
their own security issues (or just slow down the computer enough that you'll
want to turn it off). But your OS has various built-in knobs about running
unknown software, and you're probably better served by turning those up to the
safest settings and knowing what its security prompts mean.
[https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/malware-antivirus-
and...](https://looseleafsecurity.com/episodes/malware-antivirus-and-safe-
downloads.html) (In particular, if you're not in tech, it's not obvious that
every program you download has access to all your cookies and private files
... unless you get it from your OS's app store ... unless ... we talk about
this complexity in this and previous episodes.)

We post both the entire transcript and additional notes / links to further
reading, so if listening to people talk isn't your preferred way of consuming
content (and honestly it's not mine either!) our website should still be
pretty useful.

~~~
throw28943away
Every computer should have uBlock Origin IMO.

Chrome: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpa...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm) Firefox:
[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-
origin...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/)

------
hi5eyes
i was discussing this with my parents and uncle

im trying to get them to use a password manager and at least using chrome with
ublock origin, teaching them how to interact with elements etc.

its really tough out here

------
obarthelemy
Step 0: send them a fake email from their most trusted source (ask):
president/their bank/Medicare... Rebound from that into the "no trust" talk,
don't just start talking right away.

------
sadris
Give them Linux and ublock

------
nonamenoslogan
Get them an iPad.

------
jedisct1
Get them an iPad.

Seriously.

------
jslabovitz
You can't make them safe, any more than you can give them a car and make them
safe on, say, a freeway. I think a better attitude is to teach them that the
internet is a dangerous place, and they should 'drive' defensively.

Get them the simplest device possible. A cheap iPad is great. Preconfigure it
to be even simpler (maybe using parental controls), and tell them not to mess
with anything. Keep notes for yourself, and be prepared to restore from
factory defaults every once in a while when things go weird.

Install as many layers of ad-blocking as possible, whether DNS blacklists,
browser filters, etc. Some sites/apps won't function correctly, but rather
than try to open holes, just say, 'Sorry, that doesn't work.' Trust me, your
folks will just move on to something that does (maybe with your suggestions),
and is likely safer.

Buy them a few subscriptions to reputable news sources (a good discussion
itself) so they don't have an excuse that they can't pay for decent journalism
and so have to pick it up from a Facebook/Youtube algorithm.

If you're up for it, be explicit and direct about them asking you for advice.
For example, teach them how to forward an email to you -- or a screenshot or
image from another camera -- so you can give them an idea of whether its safe
or not.

If they're willing, teach them to use a password manager that creates/saves
random passwords. If you can't, at least make sure their important accounts
(email, bank, etc.) are adequately secured. I've (mostly) convinced my mom to
write down all her passwords on pieces of paper, which are stored in an
envelope in a known place in her apartment. It's not perfect, but way better
than discovering every password is 'hello123'.

Try to teach them a little about the technology. I don't mean system
architecture or code, but the basics of how online economics work (e.g.,
advertising vs personal data) and what algorithms are (use the analogy of meal
recipes). If you discover accessible journalism that is critical of
problematic technology (like privacy issues with Facebook), share it with
them. I've done this a lot with older/non-tech folks and I've ever met someone
who couldn't understand at least the basics.

Don't be afraid to tell them that you feel some technology is bad for them.
You'll discover it's actually a relief for them to hear, as mostly what
they're going to hear is that all technology is great, and much less about
being critical about tech.

Finally, don't push them into any more tech than they truly need. Most non-
tech people aren't that interested in exploring tech; they probably _aren 't_
going to be the folks downloading apps or plugins and trying random websites
just for fun. If they're comfortable walking into their bank and dealing with
their accounts in person, let them continue to do that. Even if it costs a
little, they're actually better off than you (or someone else) convincing them
online banking is 'better.' Don't digitize their lives without a really good
reason.

(I'm saying all of the above with the experience of being online for 40+
years, and helping other folks over that whole time. Sadly, it's gotten more
difficult.)

------
dlphn___xyz
dont let them touch social media

~~~
devaroop
Life at that age is so empty without social media.

------
OrgNet
tell them to stay offline ... but they won't listen

