
Nintendo’s Resurgence - angpappas
https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/7/16746390/nintendo-2017-switch-snes-classic-wii-u
======
hug
Nintendo is a toy company. You don’t buy their hardware thinking that you’ve
got a device which is going to take over your living room, delivering
television and games and voice recognition and baking you cookies. You buy a
big ol’ expensive toy. The kind meant for kids, but also the kind that’s such
a good toy that you’ll love it even if you’re not a kid.

The Switch, of course, did it perfectly. Daaaaaad don’t want to go out I
haven’t reached a save poi... oh wait. Can’t play Switch because your mother
is watching TV? Yes you can. Want to play Mario as a fun, motion controlled
casual scroller? Yep. Want to play Mario as the single best speed-running
title around with a pro controller? That too.

The Wii was a fantastic toy! Well executed motion controls, with games that
took advantage: The kind of game that a six year old and sixty year old could
play against each other in a fair match.

The DS, a plasticy clamshell with the heritage of the bomb proof gameboy, was
in the hands of kids _everywhere_ , that graphics by necessity somewhat
simpler, but no less satisfying.

And then: the Wii U. It was not whatever the aforementioned things were, or
maybe it was in a failure-of-execution sort of way. I never saw a kid
particularly excited about playing the Wii U. Too much video game, not enough
toy.

The Switch doesn’t have gimmicks, it has features. It’s not a primarily first-
party console, it has hundreds of indie games on the Eshop from a dollar up.
It’s not great because it can be played in the hand and on the TV, it’s great
_and_ it can do those things.

~~~
SimeVidas
A toy is by definition only for children. The Switch is a video game system
for all ages, so it’s not a toy … unless you think video games are only for
children.

~~~
32bitkid
I'm not sure I agree with this definition of a "toy"; to me is an item used
primarily for "play" (or not exclusively for "work"/"productivity"). Play is
most definitely not restricted to children.

~~~
SimeVidas
Either all major video game consoles are toys, or none of them are. And since
they are designed for all age groups, I wouldn’t call them toys, because that
unnecessarily associates them with children.

~~~
eric_h
Whenever I buy a new piece of electronics (say, a new iPhone or a new laptop),
I call it my new toy.

Toys aren't just for kids, just like fun isn't just for kids.

~~~
SimeVidas
Yes, and I call my cat baby. That‘s fine but in discussions, we should stick
to the words’ actual meanings. When you say, video game consoles are toys,
you‘re (inadvertently) making a statement that video games are for children.
That‘s what you sound like, whether you like it or not. It‘s because most
people associate toys with children. So let‘s acknowledge that, and use terms
that highlight that video games are for all ages, instead of the opposite.

~~~
hug
I am quite _nonplussed_ by your linguistic prescriptivism. It is, however a
_moot_ point in a discussion about Nintendo's products. I appreciate your
efforts to remain _cordial_ , however.

(In case you didn't get it: All of those words once meant or possibly still
currently mean the opposite of the way in which they're being used in this
comment. Language is what you make of it.)

------
bane
Nintendo fucking _nailed_ it with the Switch. It captures the dream of having
one "computing" device with you for everything and all of the play modes are
so polished they don't feel like gimmicks. Back during the Wii days, there
were comments that compared Nintendo to Apple in terms of philosophy and
industrial design. This is them at the top of their game again...everything
just _works_...no muss, no fuss. There's a very simple and elegant core
philosophical concept to the Switch that they relentlessly pursued until all
the edge cases were filed down.

Turn it on, you pick up your game right where you left off in about 5 seconds.
Controllers sync in seconds, the dock as a charger and TV connector is
seamless, the joycons work beautifully, the mobile experience is top-of-the-
line. It comes out of the box ready for multiplayer, something no console has
done since maybe the SNES. And the initial software releases are diverse,
fantastically produced and incredibly enjoyable.

This is the part where Nintendo's fundamental DNA as a toy company comes into
play. It's their job to generate joy, not wow with consumer electronics. It's
like every interaction with the system is designed to instill confidence and a
preparation for fun. The system is powerful enough for general computing, but
they've cut out all that stuff and focused it on gaming. It doesn't even come
with a web browser.

There's some knocks against Nintendo for not getting on-line play, and I think
that's true. But philosophically, Nintendo wants you to get together with your
friends, because that's _more_ fun. I can imagine whiteboard meetings at
Nintendo where they analyze the shortest path to joy and maximization of
player fun as serious discussions.

I just hope they can keep the software coming so they can sustain this.
Nintendo deserves to be top dog for a while. This is a great time to be a
gamer and this makes Sony and Microsoft just look like their going through the
motions at this point.

~~~
byron_fast
If they made a Switch with LTE capability and a web browser, that would also
be awesome.

When I see how people react to their phones now that they are used to
handhelds - with the constant feeling they've lost control and breaking
changes are inevitable - it's only a matter of time before Nintendo wins other
markets.

~~~
MBCook
Maybe that would play in other countries, in the US I think would work just as
well as the 3G support on the Vita.

I had one of those come up but surprise surprise I never hooked it up to the
cell network. Why would I? Just cost a whole bunch of money for something I’m
not really going to use.

Look at what happened with Apple. They managed to get “special deals“ from the
carriers to allow the new Apple Watches to be on for ‘only’ $10 a month. Of
course it was something like $17 or $18 after all the taxes and fees. And they
were had been Android smart watches you could add to your plan for only five
dollars a month before hand… but the carriers were nice enough to “fix” that.

I’m not a huge online gamer, but even if I was I don’t feel like $20 a month
just to use my switch. If I want to do that I’ll use the free tethering I
have.

If I had kids? I don’t see why I would pay $20 a month for each of them
either.

The idea of putting cell radios and everything seems nice but the truth is
that in the US it’s worthless because it’s so expensive to use.

As for a web browser? I have my phone. Frankly I’m happy that the switch is
nothing more than a gaming machine. I can sort of see the idea of using it for
Netflix watching since it has a decent size screen.

I can’t imagine myself ever opening the web browser once. Featuritis one of
the problems that Microsoft had this generation. The WiiU had it also. It’s
nice to have a focused device.

------
legitster
In college, I got to hear a guest lecture from the CFO of Nintendo of America.
Some interesting take-aways:

\- Unlike their competitors, Nintendo is not diversified in the least.
Microsoft could lose a billion dollars a year on the Xbox and wait for a
profit. Nintendo can't. So they try to position their products as
complimentary to the other consoles.

\- Internal culture has zero tolerance for self-congratulation. Apparently
there was a memo once about the success of the Wii, and the person was
disciplined.

\- Very HQ centric. Nintendo of America is only considered a
marketing/translation arm. They get virtually no decision making ability.

~~~
meddlepal
> Very HQ centric. Nintendo of America is only considered a
> marketing/translation arm. They get virtually no decision making ability.

I think that is a really big problem for Nintendo going forward. For a long
time now I have gotten the feeling the Japanese executive decision making
apparatus is very very out of touch with the American / European consumer
demands. They understand the Japanese gamer market but they have continued to
"not get" the western marketplace at all. The fact they depend on strong sales
of their first party franchises should be a strong indicator that Nintendo is
not a healthy organization. That will work for awhile as they sell of
nostalgia but newer kids don't have the same attachment to Mario, Zelda,
Metroid etc. The Nintendo online story is still a joke compared to Sony and
Microsoft.

~~~
djroomba
>Nintendo is not a healthy organization.

I disagree heavily.

The toy view the japanese executives take is radically different than american
videogame companies, that allows them to have a cult like following.

Nintendo is also extraordinarily cash rich.

They don't need the western market, its just a bonus.

The switch was a system tailor made to the japanese aesthetic of not having
large tvs, not caring about online games, and long commutes.

~~~
MBCook
There are many things about the Switch which I love but there are a lot of
lessons that Nintendo is having to re-learn the hard way since they’re not
watching their competitors.

I remember there was an interview a few years ago with a flat out mentioned
that when building an online service they never looked at Xbox live. At all.

That’s how you get to the point that in 2017 you launch consul that doesn’t
support cloud saves and ties purchases to the hardware instead of a single
account. If something goes wrong with my switch _all_ my purchases die with
it. I have to send it in to Nintendo and have them fix/replace it and move my
purchases over. And of course if something happens (including a bad software
update) I could lose all my progress in all my games.

Sony and Microsoft of had solutions to this forever. You have to pay money for
the cloud save back up (which really annoys me) but my games are tied to an
account and not the hardware. When my Xbox 360 died? I just bought a new one
and all my stuff re-download it. When I bought a PlayStation 4 Pro I could
easily move all my stuff from my PS4.

There are a few things were Nintendo could make some small adjustments and
make life MUCH easier. I know numerous parents would love the ability to buy a
game once and play it on two or three consoles (one for each kid) the way you
can with stuff on iOS or the PS4. Instead you have to pay 60 bucks a kid.

I love Nintendo for making fun, interesting, colorful, lighthearted games.
It’s nice to have something other than the latest major zombie shooter to
play.

But in some ways they still live in 1993.

~~~
jle17
> ties purchases to the hardware instead of a single account. If something
> goes wrong with my switch all my purchases die with it.

I believe your purchases are tied to your account, but can only be used on
your "active" console, which you have to deactivate (or get deactivated by
Nintendo if you don't have access to it) before being able to use them on
another console.

~~~
jamesgeck0
Yeah; prior to the Switch you had to do a more clunky system transfer, but
purchases haven't been tied to the console since the WiiU/3DS.

~~~
MBCook
That’s new to me. I knew they were going to fix it but I didn’t know anything
had changed yet. Thanks.

------
habosa
I don't play many games. I played my share of Xbox One but the last console I
bought myself was an Xbox 360 on launch day.

I just got a Switch and ... wow. What a fantastic piece of tech that's unique
in every way. Every design decision is so thoughtful and it all "just works".
Playing Breath of the Wild is more fun than any game I can remember. I feel
like a kid with a new toy for the first time since I was an actual kid.

~~~
bpicolo
> Every design decision

I wouldn't say every. The charging of the Joy Cons is a pain. Having to remove
the straps, put them in the base of the system, then do the reverse. If you
have 3 sets of Joy Cons it's just straight up absurd unless you buy additional
accessories, and then you still have the strap song and dance.

~~~
saghm
Do most people use the straps? I've literally never put mine on my joycons,
and I've never felt uncomfortable holding them or worried that I was about to
drop them or anything.

~~~
bpicolo
The feel kinda naked without them with the connector bar there. The main issue
is still that if you have 3 of them you can’t charge them all at one because
only the base system can charge them.

The pro controllers are just wayyyyy more convenient

------
julianpye
One more argument: When I turn on the Xbox and the PS4, all they seem to do is
download gigabytes of updates that I missed over the last months. I don't play
often, so that annoys me. The Switch does not do this. It turns on and off
right away and the updates are always optionally executed and have already
been downloaded.

~~~
modeless
I was really happy to find this too, as the update experience (and system
software in general) has been pretty terrible on previous Nintendo home
consoles.

I wonder how much of Android they are using at the low levels? Android has
recently gotten much, much better at applying system updates, adopting ideas
from Chrome OS. Building on Android would be a really low friction way for
them to get started on the system software, since they're using a Tegra chip,
and it could also explain the improvement in general system software quality
in Switch over Wii/Wii U.

~~~
EpicBlackCrayon
The Switch runs a modified form of BSD.

~~~
DiThi
It runs a modified form of 3DS firmware with BSD bits in it. It's not as clear
cut as the PS4.

~~~
throwawayfinal
It's looking more and more like it's a modified-but-largely-intact BSD kernel
with a 3ds api (not abi?) compatible userspace. Time will probably prove me
wrong.

------
DoodleBuggy
Nintendo is perhaps the last remaining large company that makes significant
effort to include whimsy all over their product experience.

Of course, some of us remember that Apple used to have very whimsical
behaviors and interactions throughout their software too, but that has been
bludgeoned out of the OS experiences over the last several years.

~~~
Splines
Getting into the enterprise business smashes any remaining cultural whimsy.

~~~
mariojv
Slack seems pretty whimsical and is an enterprise application, but it's the
exception to the rule. :partyparrot:

~~~
threatofrain
But there may be a lesson to be vicariously learned from Google's mic drop
incident. Whim needs a thick bureaucratic process on top!

------
ProfessorLayton
I'm thoroughly enjoying my Nintendo Switch, and is one of my favorite consoles
ever. I mostly use it in TV mode, but love that I can take the games with me
if I need to.

Due to my busy schedule I'm still playing through Breath of The Wild, but I
did restart halfway through when the 1st expansion was released so I could
play in Hero Mode. Even though this is the 18th game in the series, it is
clearly evident that it was developed with the utmost care and craft, and not
yet-another-installment, unlike other big franchises.

I have a brand new copy of Mario Odyssey waiting for me to open up as soon as
I have time for it. I'm really happy Nintendo has been able to continue making
excellent games in this free to play era.

~~~
mediocrejoker
I've been working my way through Mario Odyssey and I have the same
observations: the care and attention to detail is hugely impressive. The game
deserves all the positive attention it's been getting from reviewers.

------
modeless
I admire Nintendo because they have an original vision and they stick to it.
They come up with crazy ideas and execute without regard to what competitors
are doing. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but when they fail
they don't fall back to following the crowd, because they believe in their
unique vision.

------
dm319
We have a Wii-U. It's actually a very nice machine - if anyone wants a another
way of playing Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon I'd highly
recommend it. It also has the virtual console, which plays lots of
NES/SNES/N64 titles. The machine is also compatible with Wii games, and they
look a lot better through the HDMI output.

The Wii-U's mistake was more of a marketing one. People didn't even realise
the existence of the product. The gamepad looked like a new 3DS or something,
and games didn't take advantage of the touchscreen - like games did for the
3DS.

The other thing that has propelled the Switch were other console companies
intended restrictive DRM practices. The kind of market that loved the NES,
SNES & Wii were families who just wanted to have a laugh playing games
together, and don't take it too seriously.

~~~
MBCook
It was more than marketing. The fact that they made the gamepad drastically
increased the price compared to if it was TV only. At the same time they
needed the TV side of things because they couldn’t put enough horse power in a
portable cancel.

And of course a 480p resistive touch screen didn’t look very good.

The end result was the system was too expensive to be competitive because the
graphics were too poor, even if people actually understood what it was.

You’re right that much like some of the stuff on the feeder it ended up being
a pointless costs in case people didn’t even really use it to its capability.
It was so different from the other consoles that no one was going to put the
time into it since the box never sold enough in the first place.

That said? It was a great system, and you’re right that all those games were
fantastic. I LOVED super Mario 3-D world, it was one of the best games I’ve
played in years.

------
rocky1138
It's a small nitpick, but I've seen this repeated several times and it's just
not correct that Wii U was Nintendo's worst selling home console. The Virtual
Boy owns that title.

------
replicatorblog
Nintendo seems more like a content company that likes to invest in expensive
hardware experiences than a tech company. I'm glad they've managed to hold on
to relevancy for another console cycle, but their days have to be numbered
right? How many times can you mine Zelda nostalgia in an age when kids have
dozens more, and often better titles available for $0.99? Have there been any
major 3rd party games developed for their platforms over the last ten years?
Is there a game developer that would prioritize Nintendo over either
XBOX/Playstation, or iOS/Android?

It's not like they've done what Lego has done, in terms of being a company
that was on the brink of failure to becoming the #1 toy company in the world
and creating new brands that actually outsell their Star Wars license.

That said, Nintendo was founded in the 19th century and is still kicking.
Don't want to write their obituary just yet :)

~~~
smcl
I'd agree that they need more than just Zelda and Mario[kart]. There certainly
are games available, but there are not too many of these that I'm particularly
enthusiastic about playing.

However those titles are _extremely_ good - they're not just churning out
sequels for the sake of it, they're genuinely producing great games. They're
just not making too many :-/

~~~
nilkn
Keep in mind the DS/3DS has an extensive library of excellent third party
games. A lot of folks tend to overlook just how overwhelmingly successful the
3DS is and has been -- Nintendo basically prints money with it. It's actually
one of the best game catalogues for any console out there.

I strongly suspect we'll see many of these titles migrate to the Switch over
the next several years, which could end up making it a very compelling
package.

~~~
sotojuan
The "problem" is that Nintendo consoles usually have a decent amount third
party titles, but they a) tend to be of niche genres b) most Western Nintendo
consumers specifically buy their consoles for the first party titles c) either
Nintendo or the publisher does a poor job of marketing them in the West
(because of a and b).

------
partycoder
Nintendo's philosophy is "software sells hardware".

Meaning, do not license their franchises on hardware that is not Nintendo,
with very specific exceptions (e.g: Mario Run).

------
Feniks
Nintendo found its niche. They couldn't compete with MS or Sony in the home
console market. But they OWN portables. Especially now that Sony bowed out
after the Vita.

~~~
megaman22
Cellphones have completely cannibalized the portable market. I will never buy
a portable; I've got multiple generations of Samsung phone equipment happy to
step into that niche

~~~
zaarn
Even considering that I haven't touched my DSLite for over 2 years now, I
prefer it over mobile phone games. I got an amazing amount of fun out of it
that I have yet to find in __any__ mobile game on the market, stuff like the
Super Mario Bros for DS or Harvest Moon. I have sunk weeks of playing time
into those.

------
dgritsko
Probably tangential to the article, but this quote depressed me more than it
probably should:

> “During Thanksgiving break, when I go home to see my family, I can play
> Legend of Zelda while I’m up there instead of being like, ‘Man, I can’t wait
> to go home so I can go play my console.’”

Videogames are great, and I have a great time playing them. But man, time with
family is so limited. You only get one trip around the block in this life, and
at the end of the day, I'd rather have spent more time with loved ones than
with a videogame.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
You say this, but what do you do when everyone has run out of things to talk
about and everyone is just watching TV? Heck, going back for spring festival
is this times ten. I’m all for family time, but I’d rather spend it doing
something together.

~~~
MBCook
Not only that, you can get some pretty good party games for the switch. Both
the latest jack box party pack which is a ton of fun, and overcooked or
available. I’ve had a ton of fun with my family with both of them.

I believe this is also the point of 1-2 switch, but I haven’t played that.

------
slg
>Of course, there’s no guarantee that Nintendo’s current momentum will
continue.

We have seen this story from Nintendo before so the cynic in me is hesitant to
say that this is a resurgence that has any lasting power. The dual
mobile/console functionality of the Switch seems to be almost as gimmicky as
the motion controls of the Wii. The success of the Switch sales are largely
built off two amazing games in Zelda and Mario while the Wii was built of the
excellent of Wii Sports. It is also worth noting that those Switch games are
single player compared with the multiplayer Wii Sports. It is therefore
unlikely to have the same type of viral growth that the old console had when
someone would have fun playing the game on a friend's system and immediately
want to purchase one of their own. Meanwhile both Sony and Microsoft have
released revamps of their consoles to increase their lead in performance
compared with the Switch. That difference will only get worse as games start
to target the newer hardware of those updated systems. I would want to give it
another 6-12 months before declaring that Nintendo is truly back.

~~~
roblabla
Pfft. I'm a switch owner, and while I do agree the dual nature of the Switch
looked gimmicky, it turned out to be surprisingly useful, more than I
expected. But that's besides the point.

The thing about "performance" is that, in the end, nobody gives a crap about
that. Really. What the customer cares about are what games are available, and
how much fun they can get out of it. The console market is one where walled
gardens fight with the IP they have, not with the performance of the consoles
(though that does help strengthen the IP). Now Nintendo is in a super strong
position there : They've got Mario and Zelda, basically the icons of video-
games. They also don't exactly target the same age-range. Nintendo is all
about family games, targeting a very wide age-range. From what I've seen of
the "lead" games of Sony and Microsoft, they've all but abandoned that
segment.

I don't think Nintendo ever really declined. They screwed up with the WiiU,
but that's basically the only screwup in recent history.

~~~
slg
I guess the benefit of the mobility is highly dependent on the user, but from
what I have heard is that for many people the system might occasionally travel
with a user, but it is played while attached to a TV an overwhelming majority
of the time.

Regarding your other points, everything you said there has been true about
previous Nintendo consoles. However the Wii U sold worse than the Gamecube
which sold worse than the N64 which sold worse than the SNES which sold worse
than the NES all while the industry grew as a whole. If you are looking at the
success of Nintendo's home consoles, the Wii is a huge outlier. I don't think
the focus on "fun" and "family" has yet been proven to be successful in
comparison to Sony's and Microsoft's strategies.

~~~
AlexandrB
> but from what I have heard is that for many people the system might
> occasionally travel with a user, but it is played while attached to a TV an
> overwhelming majority of the time.

Why go off of anecdotes? In a recent investor Q&A Nintendo revealed their own
figures that show 30% of people primarily use it in portable or tabletop mode
[1].

Personally, I primarily used it in portable mode until a few weeks ago - and
now I use it docked to a TV much more due to Mario Odyssey benefitting from
using separate joycons.

> If you are looking at the success of Nintendo's home consoles, the Wii is a
> huge outlier.

Only if you don't consider portable consoles like the 3DS, where Nintendo has
been dominant for a long time. Even against the technologically superior
PSP/PS Vita.

[1]
[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2017/171031_2e.pdf](https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2017/171031_2e.pdf)

Edit: it's also important not to confuse sales volume with profitability. If
modern, 4K console games are as expensive to make as EA and Activision claim
the underpowered nature of the Switch is a benefit to Nintendo as it keeps
their development costs down.

------
Zardoz84
> the system doesn’t have the power to support direct ports of today’s biggest
> blockbuster hits (a problem the Wii and Wii U also had)

So DooM isn't a big blockbuster ...

------
ErikAugust
Shameless (don't tell Nintendo) - but if you're interested in casually playing
classic NES games in your browser I've scrapped together an emulator that
includes:

\- 30+ classic games \- Full screen mode \- Save/load game \- USB Gamepad
support \- Mobile support \- No Flash, all JavaScript

[https://www.playnesta.com](https://www.playnesta.com)

------
rb808
From a software POV there has been very little software coming out of Japan.
Video games are an exception.

Ruby is too - anything else of note?

~~~
mempko
bitcoin ?

------
megaman22
People love Nintendo for some reason, but they just don't move the needle for
me. But I'm first and foremost a PC gamer pretty far out on the grognard end
of the spectrum and always have been; I'd rather play Crusader Kings or War in
the East than twitchy platformers.

~~~
megaman22
Yikes, don't argue against the Nintendo fanboys, I guess...

Zelda and Super Smash Brothers are clearly the state of the art and there has
never been anything more interesting

------
Jach
Nintendo lives on its 1st party offerings. If you want mobile gaming that
isn't gimped, then get something like the GPD Win
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPD_Win](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPD_Win)
/ [https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-GPD-
WIN-X7-Z8750-Bluetooth/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-GPD-
WIN-X7-Z8750-Bluetooth/dp/B01MCV637B)). But you can't play the latest Zelda
and Mario.

~~~
ben174
Literally never heard of this before, and the reviews are mixed while price is
high. Mario Odyssey and Zelda: BOTW are some of the most amazing games ever
conceived. Tons of content and countless hours of fun. I think the safer bet
is on the Switch at the moment.

~~~
Jach
Yeah the Amazon link I gave is about $100 more than it should be. On Gearbest
it's currently $50 less... welcome to non multinational megacorp hardware I
guess? :) Same with less than stellar reviews. Performance may be greatly
improved by properly applying thermal paste.

Steam has a ton of games equal to or better than the 2 big Switch games on
basically whichever metrics you like, and many of those will run on the GPD
Win. From a price per hours of mobile fun metric, there's no comparison.
Still, good Nintendo games have a charm that resists straightforward
comparison on metrics, but that's why they've remained relevant. After however
many years it has been since Galaxy 2, we finally have a proper Mario game
again, yay.

