
Canada Group Sues Government over Google's Sidewalk Labs - colinprince
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47956760
======
userbinator
I've long become aware of the fact that everything promoted with the adjective
"smart" is usually somehow dystopian, because it usually acts in the interest
of someone else. In other words, we should really have more things which are
"dumb" enough that we can control them, not things which are so "smart" that
we can't.

~~~
nostrademons
That assumes your interests are non-aligned with the people who create the
tech. In most situations where you are voluntarily choosing to pay money for a
product, your interests are aligned, because you will stop choosing to pay
money if you feel your interests have been harmed.

~~~
rootlocus
People happily pay premium prices for apple products, and they're interests
are clearly not aligned. For instance, apple fights against the right to
repair. I think this extends to a lot of companies.

~~~
nostrademons
Apple's consistently fought for privacy, though, and against ads and crapware.
That's a good example: because you're paying a premium price for the product,
they won't jeopardize those profits through contracts with other parties.

With the right-to-repair, your interests are definitely not aligned - each
time you repair an iPhone, that's money you give to someone else that you're
not giving to Apple. It's good to be aware of these situations - you'll never
avoid all of them - but at least you can predict in which ways companies might
try to screw you over and decide if you're okay with that.

The only reliable promise is someone else's self-interest.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
It's _never_ that simple unless you're buying something as simple as potatoes
or a hammer.

With an iPhone I may find myself aligned on 5 points, and not aligned on 4, so
perhaps I buy as being the least worst available. The iPhone, or other brand,
with all 9 things I care about may never have been sold, even though
technically and commercially feasible.

In the case of phones, no maker seems to care a jot about right to repair any
more. So it's not deciding I'm OK being screwed over that way, but a choice of
screwed that way or no phone.

------
jammygit
I think this is the official announcement by the Canadian Civil Liberties
Association:

[https://ccla.org/ccla-commences-proceedings-waterfront-
toron...](https://ccla.org/ccla-commences-proceedings-waterfront-toronto/)

The gist is this (from Boing Boing's article):

"“You can argue that you consent when you put Alexa in your home or connect
your electronics to your online accounts,” Michael Bryant, executive director
of the CCLA, told me over the phone. “It’s another thing to say you consent
when you walk from one block in Toronto to the next.”"

------
Jerry2
A whole neighborhood run by Google? That's even more dystonian than many Black
Mirror episodes.

~~~
donatj
I’m genuinely not sure if you intended sarcasm?

It’s not really anything new. Over the last couple hundred years there’s a
long history of towns and neighborhoods run by companies.

See:

\-
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town)

\-
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village)

~~~
microcolonel
In the U.S, at least you can argue that the company has some limited
responsibility to uphold rights; in a company town, it is generally the case
that the company town can not prevent you from expressing yourself by removing
you from the place with trespassing statute [0].

As a former Torontonian, I have no faith that the council or the public will
prevent abuse by Google until it gets _really_ out of hand.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_v._Alabama](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_v._Alabama)

------
collective-intl
Personally, I think Google would be much more competent at designing a good
city than the government. Privacy fears are way overblown.

It's popular right now to hate on big US companies, but this project always
sounded promising to me, and I really hope they get to finish it. Maybe they
would come up with technical innovations that could improve other cities.

~~~
Jasper_
> Personally, I think Google would be much more competent at designing a good
> city than the government.

They couldn't even keep fiber wires in the ground for two years before getting
bored and losing their attention span. I don't want to see what they would do
with more complicated infrastructure.

~~~
crooked-v
I picture one of those Our Incredible Journey-type posts, capped with "and all
city utilities and emergency services will be shut down at the end of the
month".

------
cromwellian
I don’t get it. No proposed design even exists yet, so how can claims of
surveillance have legal merit? It is possible to create smart autonomous
systems that don’t have PII. They’re suing over assumptions.

------
rum3
Finally a horrible Google product that can be vandalized! Spray cans for the
cameras and monitors, glue and isolation foam spray for everything else! Those
street cleaning robots wont last very long neither.

------
Illniyar
"We can do better. Our freedom from unlawful public surveillance is worth
fighting for."

Is it though? the talk about privacy often ignores what lack of privacy could
potentially mean. A fully covered surveillance state with proper AI and fast
respondent police can get rid of entire types of crimes entirely. Burglary,
Rubbery, Kidnapping, stranger rape, many types of violent outside crimes.

There is obviously a problem with abuse of power and trust, but that exists
with all types of government action, more so with enforcement, would you not
give up your privacy so that you don't need to lock your door anymore? letting
your kid go play without chaperones?

Not to mention such arguments as the immense convenience of everything being
connected and knowing who you are.

~~~
nkrisc
> Is it though? the talk about privacy often ignores what lack of privacy
> could potentially mean. A fully covered surveillance state with proper AI
> and fast respondent police can get rid of entire types of crimes entirely.
> Burglary, Rubbery, Kidnapping, stranger rape, many types of violent outside
> crimes.

You're missing some crimes from your list: being part of a minority political
party, disparaging the ruling party, expressing dissent, failing to adhere to
formalized social norms, being an "undesirable". I could go on.

No, these are not crimes today. But if the apparatus you describe was in
place, they could easily be made crimes and you couldn't stop it. Because the
moment you tried, you'd be whisked away.

------
zavi
They are complaining about Google's proposal to expand light rail in
surrounding areas, arguing that the residential land is so precious there and
shouldn't be disrupted. Sounds like NIMBY activism.

~~~
jeromegv
Nope, you got it all wrong. It wasn’t the idea of Google to build light rail.
It was the city’s idea and has been discussed for many years. The problem is
that the city lacks funding so google might have been asked to contribute in
exchange to all the benefits they get from this Neighborhood.

There is also no residential land right now at this spot. It’s potential
residential land that would need to be built, that’s the whole point of the
neighborhood but right now it’s the old land of the port, there isn’t any
residents.

I’m not sure if you are misleading on purpose or not, but you have twisted
reality entirely on this one.

~~~
zavi
The filed complaint is talking about the area outside the port that would be
"affected" by the light rail.

