
Ask HN: Does anyone else have (or had) problems in dating or getting married? - nosauve
I know this is not a dating&#x2F;pua discussion forum; but I am similar to most people here. I am if anyone else here also suffering from dating dilemma. I am SE asian and live in Seattle. I am 31 and have no friend so far here in Seattle. Weather is so depressing that I have not seen the Sun in last 30 days.<p>I am not a very good looking guy. I go to the gym at least 3 times a week. I am not overweight as well. Only strike against me is my premature baldness. I personally don&#x27;t think it is such a big deal now. However, when I was in SF, it was a big deal for most of the women.<p>Where do you meet women if you don&#x27;t have social circle? I am on tinder and CMB, very rarely I get matched with someone. Chances of a serious relationship are almost zero with girls on tinder and CMB.<p>Do you have any suggestions?
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kohanz
> Where do you meet women if you don't have social circle?

You're looking at this in the wrong order. You need to develop some sort of
social circle first. Some friends that you look forward to seeing on a regular
basis (weekly or bi-weekly). They can be men or women (not every woman has to
be a potential partner). This isn't even necessarily about your future partner
coming out of this social circle, but this is about having some balance in
your life.

If you have no friends and find a woman who shows the slightest interest in
you, you will end up smothering them, because they become your _entire_ social
life. When they realize that you don't have any significant friends other than
themselves, they will run for the hills (and so they should!). Someone having
friends is a way to validate that they are likable and a fun person to be
around.

Focus on finding friends, through whatever interests you have. Turn off the
"looking for a girlfriend" vibe for a while, because it colours everything you
do. I know this is super cliche, but when you've got a life that you are happy
with, with social activities and pursuing your career and hobbies, that is
when you will be at your most attractive to prospective partners.

I feel you though, online dating _sucks_... until it doesn't. There were times
in my 20s when I felt a lot like you describe, but in my late 20s, I met my
now wife. We now have 2 kids and I couldn't be happier, but I sure cursed the
name of online dating for several years before that happened.

------
damptowel
Never fall into the mindset that a partner is a requirement for personal
fulfilment, that will just make you feel anxious while dating and miserable
when it doesn't work out. Rather focus on just enjoying the moment. If you
give the impression of being carefree and fun company that will make you more
attractive to outsiders. If you are are positive, supporting and upbeat people
will subconciously see you as a way to increase their own happiness. If you
have the mindset of being unfulfilled and wanting, this will show. It's very
difficult to act your way out of that as this requires mental energy that will
fatigue you and woman have an inbred sixth sense for these things. I would
focus on just forgetting about having to have a partner and think about
yourself. That would mean finding and spending time with people who you enjoy.
Thing will become much easier when you have friends to meet new people with
together.

Talk to women, no matter how they look. Most guys are anxious about this,
women find it refreshing to talk to men who don't have an agenda. If you're
lucky they might even introduce you to their single friends. Even if none of
that happens it's worth it for the friendships alone.

And don't forget to smile to strangers!

~~~
anexprogrammer
This is good advice. Combine it with some of the other good suggestions in the
comments here, like Improv and taking on some activities and hobbies.

Forget about the "finding a date" aspect of it. If you're having fun in a
relaxed setting, like in a class, you'll make friends of both sexes. You'll
have more confidence as you're not trying to impress but just have an
enjoyable evening wine tasting or learning Salsa. The conversation will be far
easier without that agenda too. There's a good chance a dating opportunity or
two will just naturally follow.

Ever notice you annoyingly seem to get more opportunity when you're happily
dating, especially in the earlier phases? That's the confidence and happiness
projecting on how you're perceived by others. So work on the happiness and
confidence first...

------
huevosabio
Let me recommend you something really fun: Improv classes. I took only a 6
weeks class and it was great.

1) You'll be forced to be out of your comfort zone, which might be one of the
reasons you are not meeting people: its comfortable not to (I've been there).

2) You'll be performing truly ridiculous acts, in its hilarity you'll likely
form some bonds with the other students. Take the advantage to go for some
drinks after.

3) Improv is all about being present, in the moment. Guess what, wooing women
is the same.

4) You'll learn a thing or two about interpersonal relations. Which is good.

Now, the best way to meet women that you want to seriously date is through
friends, since you claim you don't have a social circle, I would recommend
that you focus on building one. So, in your improv classes, invite these new
acquaintances for a pint of beer.

Finally, women, in my experience, are not as fixated in physical traits as we
men are. Thus, I would not worry about your hair loss that much, and work more
on improving social interactions. It is, however, important that you keep
yourself presentable: nice clothes, brushed teeth, get some lotion, decent
haircut.

~~~
bobochan
This is a great suggestion. I will add that there are very groups of people
more fun and open than those that are interested in the performing arts. One
of the best things that ever happened to me in college was getting a job
working backstage at the theater. Suddenly I was surrounded and working long
hours with people that very smart, funny, and talented. It is a great way to
meet people.

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amagumori
Honestly, if you're not a very good looking guy, you need to make up for that
by being a interesting, confident, funny, and positive person. Emphasis on
confidence. People seize on insecurity. If you're visibly insecure about your
appearance, then yeah, it'll be an issue. The attitude you should have is "I
think I'm great, I don't care what you think!" tinder is also the wrong thing
for you because it's really for casual physical relationships where who you
are as a person doesn't matter.

------
Mz
_I am not a very good looking guy. I go to the gym at least 3 times a week. I
am not overweight as well. Only strike against me is my premature baldness. I
personally don 't think it is such a big deal now. However, when I was in SF,
it was a big deal for most of the women._

All you talk about is what you look like and then you claim to be looking for
a _serious relationship._ Relationships are not just for good looking people
and although women can be just as shallow as men, they generally have a
different set of biases about looks than men have.

Here is a secret that many people seem to fail to grasp: A relationship is
based on _relating._ In order for that to happen, you need to be talking to
people -- and not on tinder. That's a hookup app. It isn't likely to lead to
marriage.

You need to get a social life. You need to learn to talk with women just
because they are human beings and not because you met them on tinder. You need
to learn to let them decide what they like about you. If they have a problem
with your baldness, then the answer is "Shallow bitch. NEXT!" and stop wasting
your time. Not every woman will care about that.

A good place to start is to get some hobbies, as other people are suggesting.
Or even strike up conversation with people at the gym -- and not in a creepy
"You are a girl, and I am only talking to you hoping it will lead to sex" kind
of way. Just talk to people. That is the absolute first step in establishing
any kind of relationship at all to anyone on the planet.

------
aprettyaday
Yes, I'm a black woman in tech (web dev) who has trouble with dating and
romance.

I'm pretty sure I would happily date almost any guy who knows Y Combinator
exists, but I'm pretty much invisible to men who aren't illiterate, felons,
drug addicts, drug dealers, or into hip hop culture.

I've tried dating sites, but every message I get is for sex, not dating. I
send out plenty of messages, but few reply. I have almost no physical
standards. Tall and handsome? I don't even bother, too much competition.

So I'm single, even though I would really like to share my life with someone.

~~~
morganvachon
Dating sites and apps like Tinder are designed with hookups and casual sex in
mind, not real relationships. As others have said, meeting someone through
friends is generally the best way, at least in my experience. Expand your
social circle, go to meetups and events that interest you and you'll meet
interesting people.

Another thing: Don't limit your options to other techies. While it may seem
like a good idea to be with someone who likes everything you like and works in
the same field as you, that can actually get boring fast if there's little
chemistry beyond a shared interest. My wife is not a techie by any definition
and we rarely talk about hardware hacking and futurism (my main interests)
because she would be bored to death. Otherwise, we have a lot of shared
interests, and our philosophical and political views mesh well.

We "met" via a mutual friend who knew both of us well enough to know we'd make
for a great couple, and she encouraged us both to start talking long distance.
When we finally met in person, we had already gotten past the awkward "so what
do you like to do" phase, and it made dating easier and less stressful.

------
Namrog84
Tinder isn't going to be what you want.

Consider others that are less focused on hookups.

Also try meeting people naturally. For example, Meetups and the such. Even
other guys(they have female friends) and just try and socialize frequently.
Also I'd say meeting someone at a cycling/climbing/any activity type clubs are
great too. Or even board game or movie type clubs. If you are a se at big tech
company. They sometimes have social event groups going on all the time. Just
gotta find them.

Also don't wait for people to invite you places. The quickest way to get
invited to places with peers and acquaintinces is to invite them to do
something. A movie. Board games. Hiking. Potluck. Etc..

------
NumberCruncher
>> Where do you meet women if you don't have social circle?

I moved 3 times in my life to a different city and once to a different country
and in my experience if you don't have a local social circle you high probably
won't be able to sustain a healthy long time relationship. If you aren't Tony
Stark you have to walk before you can run. Therefore at first you have to work
on having a healthy private life with sport, hobbies and friends.

------
yladiz
Something that may help is to turn what you see as bad physically into
something that's good. For example, since you're balding, it may look better
to sport a shaved head and see if you can accentuate that with facial hair (if
you can grow it) and a hat. If I ever started balding I would probably just
shave my head because I feel that it would be a strange look to see part of my
head missing hair. I would imagine that balding makes you look older than you
do since you're 31 and balding doesn't usually start until mid age, so shaving
your head may "reduce" years from your look.

Another important thing is to make sure you have good posture and confidence
in your words. Make sure you stand up straight when walking but relax your
shoulders lest you look like a police officer. And when talking to people in
general (not just women) don't be afraid to show confidence in what you're
talking about, be specific and upfront if you don't know something about a
topic, and assert yourself in a conversation when appropriate. Also don't be
afraid of silence in a conversation, it gives people in the conversation time
to reflect on what was just discussed and possibly come up with another topic.

Lastly, the best way to meet other people -- dating and a significant other is
important but friends are probably more important in the long run -- is to
find activities that you would enjoy and meet them through that. If you like
or are interested in tennis, dancing (ballroom, Latin (salsa, bachata, tango),
swing), swimming, hiking, etc., start doing them and see if you want to keep
with it. Specifically for dancing, there are generally not a lot of good
leaders (men) so if you get good you'll get a lot of attention if you progress
and Seattle is a good city for specific kinds of dancing like Argentine tango.
And don't forget to build friendships on the lookout for a relationship; I do
believe that friendships are at least as important in the long run than a
relationship so do not forget to build them along your journey.

(Also as another commenter suggested, Tinder is not a good platform to find
dates virtually. Okcupid is a better free service. I've heard positive things
about Match.com but haven't tried it.)

------
ladytron
Go find your favorite busy coffee shop ( I know Seattle has good ones). Bring
a real book and a magazine you like (not a kindle or an ipad). Sit in an open
place or community table, and half read your book, making sure that people can
see the cover/title. If you see a young woman who is doing the same thing,
strike up a conversation.

Ask her about what she is reading. Talk about the article you are reading. Try
to look for a common bond.

That is how my husband met me 17 years ago. Worked for us!

Good Luck. PS bag tinder, go find real people in real places that you like.

------
Ritjert
Luckily these are solvable problems.

You can trim/shave your hair.

With regards to clothing you can use instagram to follow men or pages whose
style you like and use that as inspiration.

Finally, I'd recommend getting in above average shape. Make going to the gym a
part of your life. An hour everyday before work of straight after.

While you're doing some/all of these, I'd start to just talk to everyone. Men,
women, old and young. That way you get into the habit of becoming more
sociable and confident.

I know these tips may sound superficial, but they help shifting an external
locus of control into an internal one.

~~~
partisan
Some people can't shave their heads for various reasons. People buy into the
whole "balding isn't a choice, shaving is", etc, but it only applies until it
doesn't.

I agree that going to the gym and getting in shape can really lead you to life
improvements, but do so with a qualified trainer. It is easy to hurt yourself
and leave things in a worse state.

I agree about socializing. Typically, people want to tell you something so you
just open the door for them to do so as long as your approach is free of
hidden objectives.

Regarding superficiality, I do find the above to be superficial, but I think
things are just more superficial in general. With the rise of social media,
people tend to gravitate towards people who meet their physical ideal before
looking further. What that means is that there are fewer opportunities to
"know" someone. So if you want to participate in the standard dating game, you
have to participate in the superficiality of it to the best of your abilities.

------
gcheong
Try Tango. I have a couple women friends who are absolutely obsessed with it
and there are meetings all over the world. I think they are always looking for
new partners and men are probably in short supply.

~~~
Tempest1981
At first I thought Tango was a new JavaScript framework... can't get out of
the tech mindset.

------
Jugurtha
Yes, I do have suggestions. A couple of conditions:

\- Not thinking about it as a _thing_ someone does. \- Not limiting oneself to
places they judge to be the places to do that non thing (I don't know why
people think it has to be in bar, club, gym.)

There's an enormous pressure on people that makes them do sad things. Going to
meetups and "trying to make friends" is a bit sad because the premise is
depressing.

You can meet people everywhere. Street, café, bus, beach, etc.

Here's a great way: have a standard reaction to someone looking at you. Warm
smile (no need to show teeth, even), and a light "hi". Nothing fancy.

With anyone who looks at you long enough (old lady, big dude, police officer).

This prevents you from thinking of coming up with something to say, and trying
to come up with something to say is what gets most people in trouble. It is
also positive to the other person, simple. It is what you do with people you
know.

The important thing here isn't really the reaction of the others. Some will
ignore you. Some will think you're strange. Maybe they're having a bad day.

You will get in a lot of conversations with a lot of people in different
situations. It takes the pressure out to "find friends" at meetups/bars/gyms
at specific times because you can talk with anyone you want.

------
J-dawg
> I go to the gym at least 3 times a week

What are you doing in the gym? From the point of view of aesthetics, doing
cardio etc is basically a waste of time. Focus on lifting weights and building
muscle.

I'm reliably informed that being 1. Muscular 2. Not fat and 3. Stylishly
dressed will put you ahead of many men physically.

------
douche
I've had good luck meeting nice people with Match. It's not as much of a meat
market as Tinder. In my area, at least, it tends to have a lot of professional
people that are looking to date more-or-less seriously, but have busy
schedules that make meeting people organically difficult.

------
CodeWriter23
First, you are good looking to someone. Watch that negative inner dialogue,
women can sense insecurity a mile away and will move on to the next guy. When
you first meet her, she has made up her mind to "maybe", "no", or rarely
"yes".

I met my wife on okcupid. I answered like 600 questions over time. If the
other person has answered several hundred, it will create a match score that
ensures a good conversation with someone who is 75% or better match. And a
conversation helps two people get to know each other. I also ground away at
the problem. There is a magic number of how many women you must contact before
you find your girlfriend or wife. I can't tell you what the number is, but
there is only one way to find out. That had me emailing dozens of women every
2-3 days. Don't let the metrics get to you; about 1 in 30 responded (there are
old profiles out there), and out of those I went on a date with about 1 in 3
that responded. So over a few months I went on dates with maybe 10-12
different women. Some of them multiple times. All of them were fantastic, and
I had a lot of fun doing various activities with them. But I didn't feel the
chemistry until I met my wife.

Through this process, I just allowed myself to be myself. No pretense or
trying to be who I thought they wanted. I allowed rejection to be a beneficial
part of my process. I wanted someone who wanted me for who I am and vice-
versa.

Of course, before I got into this process, I did what work I needed to do so
that I was bringing something to the table. This is what "they" mean when they
say "you need to get ready". I know, I was ready. Ready to bed the first woman
I could. But "ready" really means having something to offer. Emotional
availability, kindness, caring, being genuinely interested in someone else's
problems. Not to fix them, but to be supportive and ready to help if called
upon.

I can't stress this enough, what you have to give in a relationship is so much
more important than what you want to get out of it. After all, that is what
love is, giving to someone without a care of what you get in return. Second
most important is knowing what you want, don't want, and what you can put up
with, and knowing how to tell. The 10-12 women I dated before meeting my wife
informed a lot of that for me.

I would just stay off of Tinder unless all you're looking for is a hookup.
Tinder is superficial by nature; one look and swipe to maybe or no way. Hardly
a way to identify a good mate. Actually, hardly a way to even identify a good
hook up, because I can tell you from experience, hot meets hard doesn't always
add up to great sex.

------
acedinlowball
I've never had any problems dating. I've had several girlfriends off and on
since I was sixteen, always by choice. I am a decently attractive person so I
always found it pretty easy to talk to women as they are usually attracted to
me.

I've never tried Tinder or any of those apps. Never really saw the point....

My suggestion would be to work out and improve your confidence. Good luck!

------
J-dawg
Related question: I've seen several comments on HN and elsewhere about how bad
the dating scene is (for guys) in Silicon Valley / "Man Francisco". I'm
curious, is it really that bad?

I'm assuming Seattle has similar demographics so that might be part of the
problem for the OP.

------
disordinary
Goto meetup groups and start meeting people with the same interests as you.
One of those new friendships might blossum into a relationship, or more likely
you'll meet someone through one of those new friends. Otherwise dating sites
or apps.

~~~
chii
And yet I've heard lots of women don't like it when advanced are made on them
when they are at Tech meet ups.

~~~
disordinary
Oh, you definitely don't want to hit on girls at a tech meetup, they can be
uncomfortable enough for females as it is. What I meant is you make friends at
meetups and those friends either evolve into a relationship, or introduce you
to someone else who you become involved with.

Also, tech meetups are probably different all around the world, but here in NZ
they are not the right place to be hitting on people or even making friends
really. I was thinking more along the lines of meetups which were non-tech
related, like exercise meetups, meetups around films or literature, or around
food and socialising.

------
sharemywin
I would focus on finding friends first. it's a lot easier to find a buddy than
a girl. check out meetup.com and find interesting things to go to. once you
find someone to hang out with it's easier to meet other people.

------
aaronhoffman
I have no suggestions on how to find a date, sorry. But if I may add to the
discussion more broadly, I think a lot of dating/relationship issues are
stemming from changing social norms and technology. I've been following
similar issues in Japan assuming we'll see similar results in the US
[https://www.google.com/search?q=japan+marriage+problem](https://www.google.com/search?q=japan+marriage+problem)

------
helen842000
What communities and groups are you a member of?

The only way you get to meet new people as you get older is by making a
concerted effort to participate in events and to try and make a wider group of
friends in general.

------
isuckatcoding
As an easterner, let me offer a little bit of a different view. This will
likely get down voted to hell but let's see how tolerant HN really is. ;-)

My advice: get married. Find a match maker or a professional match match
making service. You're 31. I don't know what point in the West (and now more
in the east as well) it became normal to be unmarried in your 30s but it's
really unhealthy from a mental health point of view. At this rate you're
likely to get married in your late 30s (which isn't bad but it isn't for
everyone I think). So my advice is get serious and get married ASAP

------
JofArnold
Volunteer.

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Kepler-131b
Aerial acrobatics is your best bet. Always populated by women dying to meet a
fit guy (or who will become fit via said hobby).

~~~
bjw181
If you're lucky you'll skip to bedroom acrobatics

------
advice101
Smile and be positive.

------
pryelluw
Dude, email me (check profile). We can chat and talk code. :)

------
BOOSTERHIDROGEN
you are SE Asian, did you get pressured from your family?

------
40something
SE asia. Seriously. You can probably get a 15/20 there but only a 7/20 here.

~~~
ohgh1ieD
So you are telling OP that he got no chance 'here' and he should instead move
to another area ?

It might be true but that's still not a good advice, you should rather ( if
you know how ) advice him how to make it 'here' instead of 'there'.

------
crispytx
You need to go out every Friday night. Never miss a Friday night. Note, this
only works if you go out every Friday night for a long time, years if
necessary.

