
California ban on high-capacity magazines is overturned by federal appeals court - blacktulip
https://abc7.com/ammunition-magazines-california-ban/6370763/
======
Alupis
Can we be intellectually honest? These are not "high-capacity" magazines -
they are the standard capacity magazines the firearms were designed to work
with.

The 10-Round Limit Magazines are _Low Capacity_ magazines, are not standard,
are often the source of feeding malfunctions, and in many rifles - are
cumbersome to use/remove making for an overall more dangerous situation for
all involved.

Ban "Standard Capacity" magazines? Bad guys do not follow your laws.

~~~
threatofrain
> Ban "Standard Capacity" magazines? Bad guys do not follow your laws.

The "bad guys" of concern seem to be people with mental issues, not organized
crime. In that respect, restricting low-effort access to weapons with a high
kill-count capacity sounds targeted at the right demographic.

~~~
jariel
No, the number of firearms used by 'mentally unstable' in killings is a tiny
fraction of those used in street crime, impromptu crime, gangs etc..

They are almost separate issues.

~~~
bifrost
Correct, they are very separate issues.

Criminal enterprise has more commonality with gun crime than gun ownership
does. If gun ownership was simply the issue, there would be over 1000x since
the US has millions of firearms in private ownership and has for a very long
time.

This is why overly broad laws that criminalize regular people are stupid. We
can use things like gang enhancements and laws that say "gun was used in a
crime, increase sentence" to criminalize the correct people.

~~~
jariel
What is 'stupid' is having millions of guns everywhere, willy nilly, people
carrying them, threatening each other, cops afraid to pull people over.

It's utterly clear to anyone who's bothered to live in a few different
civilised countries, and one of the most shockingly 'wrong' thing that a lot
of smart can't grasp. It's more of a case study in 'perspective and
information bias' than it is guns.

Ratcheting up the laws for use in 'gun crime' will help a little bit, but
there are no situations in which the widespread availability of guns won't
result in quite a lot of excessive violence.

There is no way around the math: zillions of guns means excessive gun crime.
That's it. People get angry, vengeful, stupid - when they have easy access,
when we have 'gun culture' \- they turn to guns. Where guns are sparse, and
there is no gun culture ... they don't.

~~~
Alupis
You said this down-thread too, and it was just as incorrect the first time.

1) People do not just carry guns around with them in the US. That's factually
untrue, and illegal in most places. Even where open-carry or CCW is legal,
these are flatly not the people committing gun violence. There is no evidence
of that at all. In fact, these tend to be the least likely people to actually
use a gun over some argument or whatever. It's not 1843, it's not the wild
west - there are no poker room gun fights or high-noon gun duels.

2) The guns commonly used in gun violence were obtained illegally. Turns
out... criminals do not care about background checks, waiting periods,
approved gun rosters, and more.

3) When an "otherwise lawful" citizen does use a gun to commit violence, it's
usually murder, usually of someone they know (wife cheating, etc). Without a
gun, a knife would be used, or a car, or poison, or whatever. Even your
"civilized" country examples have this exact same problem - crimes of passion
as they are often called.

4) One of the leading stats for gun related deaths are suicides. Without guns,
you still have suicides (see Asian countries with zero civilian-owned guns,
yet people jump out of buildings).

There simply is not a problem with legal gun owners running around committing
acts of violence. It's simply not true.

------
threatofrain
Link to Duncan v Becerra decision (PDF):

[https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2020/08/14/1...](https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2020/08/14/19-55376.pdf)

------
jmcguckin
Now I can finally assemble all those Glock magazine ‘repair kits’ I
purchased...

~~~
bifrost
Those were actually legal to own prior to this ruling...

~~~
Alupis
And/Or if purchased during last year's "Freedom Week" (as part of the initial
ruling in this case)

~~~
bifrost
Indeed, millions and millions of magazines were sold with zero uptick in
crime. These magazines are legal to purchase own in most of the US and are
rarely ever used to commit crime.

There are so many other things that are predictors of crime and this is
absolutely not one of them.

------
limeblack
Gun laws are at a much lower standard in the United States to other countries.
It is one area the founding fathers got wrong in my opinion. Another example
are background checks in the USA are not required for ammo purchases but yet
are illegal in mental health and other situations which doesn't make sense.

~~~
bifrost
The bill of rights that explains why this is illegal.

~~~
limeblack
The problem isn't that this is illegal, the problem is that gun law
loopholes(that one's Obama discussed) are really bad. These are simply gun
ammo loopholes.

~~~
bifrost
There are no "gun law loopholes". Obama has zero credibility about this issue.

------
sg47
School shooters rejoice!

~~~
bifrost
There haven't been any school shootings during CV19. It really isn't about the
gun and more about the shooter.

~~~
Kednicma
It took me less than a minute to debunk this, finding [0] listing six
shootings since December 2019. School shootings are about schools, not about
guns or shooters; as long as we run schools like preludes for prisons, we're
going to continue to have the pattern.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2020s)

------
abakker
I can't help but think the founding fathers probably wrote the second
amendment with single shot muskets in mind.

I think the ultimate issue, though, was that after the civil war, looking at
what our founding fathers intended and what our country actually wanted to do
became a less valid strategy. We fought for more federal control and got it.
In doing so, the idea that we would still enshrine our rights to fight back
against the government seems less consistent.

After the sharp escalation in military technology from the 1950s onward, it
seems even less relevant, since not only have our own citizens paid taxes to,
fought in wars for, and voted for our government, but our global position has
been one of strength through our government.

Our right to own guns to fight our government is anachronistic and laughable.
All other uses for firearms do not demand high capacity magazines.

~~~
bifrost
Thats preposterous, we don't allow the 1st amendment to only apply to printing
presses or hand made leaflets/books. The founders were also aware of things
like the puckle gun and multi-barreled weapons systems, all of which could be
owned by civilians.

There are a lot of reasons why you'd need a standard capacity magazine but the
most important reason is "its not the business of the government to
unconstitutionally deprive its citizens of their rights".

~~~
jwhitlark
I think (perhaps) a better comparison is we don't allow people to shout fire
in a crowded theater. Every right has some limitations, otherwise laws and
government are irrelevant.

~~~
freen
I personally feel like my second amendment rights are infringed by the
government outlawing access to surface to air missiles, bazookas, and
thermonuclear weapons.

The line has been drawn, we are just arguing over where.

~~~
bifrost
People joke about this a lot.

Several of these things can actually be purchased illegally, non-trivially,
but yet they're never used for crime. You can buy grenades, grenade launchers,
cannons/etc with a "permit" from the government - they're never used in crime.

And to those who've passed a few physics classes...

~~~
jwhitlark
Rarely used in a crime. [https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/06/motorbike-gang-
member-...](https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/06/motorbike-gang-member-
arrested-for-anti-tank-missile-attack-on-office/)

~~~
bifrost
Yes, very rarely.

This is also in the Netherlands where the borders to countries involved in
active war are fairly porous.

