
The 2020 iPhone SE - FabHK
https://daringfireball.net/2020/04/the_2020_iphone_se
======
m12k
Compared to my first gen SE, I'd like the faster processor, better camera and
better battery life. But I'm not sure I'm willing to go up in size and weight,
and get the rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed.

For me, a bigger screen isn't a plus - after years of following the trend and
being on my phone more and more, I managed to kick the habit and I'm very
happy that my phone has now found its rightful place as a utility when I'm off
my computer, rather than as a primary computer. I use it for maps, e-tickets,
answering the occasional im. But it's not as convenient as my computer, it's
not for leisurely browsing or media consumption, and I don't want it to be -
it means that when I'm off my computer, I'm really off.

So this push toward bigger screens runs counter to what I want a phone to be
for me. A bigger screen invites you to grab it with both hands. A bigger
screen invites you to watch more stuff on it, watch movies, browse reddit and
whatnot. I don't want any of that, I'd in fact prefer if it wasn't good at
that, just like I don't want more sugar in my food.

~~~
shrew
I'm with you here, I went through a period of moving to feature phones and
ditching the smart watch to reduce the phone back to utility rather than a
distraction. But feature phones, even those running kaiOS, just don't have the
support for communication tools and things like 2fa authenticator apps.

I eventually went for an iPhone SE (2016) in the last year, after it was
discontinued and managed to get a boxed, new unit for less than even the low-
end android market phones go for. Thus far it's the most enjoyable phone to
use having moved from an S8 which was certainly "better" on paper.

The size is incredibly portable and easy to handle, the battery, despite only
being 1500mAh, does a very good job lasting me the day (though I certainly
expect it won't continue to do so) and the screen is acceptable but annoying
enough that I don't want to be using it for long stretches. It's got the
lastest iOS and I fully expect the lack of iOS 14 support will be the reason I
have to swap it for a new model once software support falls away.

It seems like this new SE model is still the smallest phone you can get
despite the increase in dimensions and weight that you mention. It's nice to
see a comment that shares my view and I hope a market for the smaller phone
will come back around similar to that odd stage in the early 00s where
handsets suddenly became impossibly small.

~~~
swiley
My iPhone SE got destroyed and I got a 7 to replace it since they wouldn’t
give me another SE. The larger screen isn’t nicer and just makes the phone
harder to hold. I actually feel like I have a harder time touching things
accurately as well, I think the 7 detects touches at a different place on your
finger.

And of course I can’t use headphones, I ordered a dongle from newegg and
waited weeks and now it hasn’t come. I’ve mostly given up on using my phone
for music because of this.

The water resistance is nice though, that’s probably the only feature I’ve
actually enjoyed.

~~~
iso1631
I've had smart phones for over a decade, and a mobile phone for 2, I can't
think of any point when I've needed water resistance.

I have however had a smashed screen once, and the bigger a phone is, the
harder it is to hold, the more likely the screen will smash

The old macbooks were great with the maglock power lead not pulling them off
the desk. I believe new ones have downgraded the connector?

~~~
really3452
> The old macbooks were great with the maglock power lead not pulling them off
> the desk. I believe new ones have downgraded the connector?

I have been using this Magnetic USB C Adapter and am very happy with it:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0816PV1YZ/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0816PV1YZ/)

~~~
ThePowerOfFuet
Be careful with that; during disconnection of the magnetic part, the pins
carrying 20 V on the cable can make momentary connections with other pins on
the portion of the connector remaining in the machine; if this happens, the
port may never work again (for charging, or for anything else).

The risk is probably not worth it.

------
NaOH
I use both styles of iPhones, an XS as my phone and a 6S as my at-work iPod
and device for random moments of RSS-type surfing. I am not a heavy or
advanced user. My preference is unquestionably toward the 6S style of size and
operation. FaceID on the XS is great when wet fingers are an issue (often for
me at work) and for in-app password authentications.

All told, I prefer the one-handed usability of the smaller 6S and that
includes losing the newer-design interactions, particularly control center on
the XS necessitating two hands to invoke it. In fact, I'm the reverse of
Gruber—I'm apt to use old-UI gestures on my XS (not that it happens often, I
tend to switch seamlessly).

Fine. Whatever. That's just me. What I find more disturbing is all the words
spilled by reviewers about all these devices. At this point, not much is
significantly changing in what's offered with new devices, so the simple lists
of Pros and Cons capture most everything. Using Gruber's review as an example,
I don't find a need for multi-paragraph expositions on the UI changes that
took place years ago, and I suspect most of his readers are informed enough
that they don't either.

For the average person, battery life is similar among models, all the cameras
are impressive, the screens and speed great. The tradeoffs between models are
generally minimal but distinct—just list them.

Overall, smartphone innovation has plateaued and so too have the reviews.

~~~
ornornor
I’m with you. I think for casual users who the SE seems to be marketing, the
6S is good enough for a quarter of the price used. Although it will probably
not get this year’s iOS update, forcing people to upgrade... Otherwise the 6S
really is good enough and compact enough.

~~~
danieldk
I don't know. People do not take cameras with them anymore and the SE 2020's
camera system is much better than that of the 6s. So, if you have the money, I
think that is worth the new SE alone.

Apart from that, I agree that the 6s is still surprisingly smooth and doesn't
seen to struggle with recent iOS versions and applications, despite being a 5
year old phone.

~~~
why_only_15
That's true because Apple puts significant effort into making that work. I
personally got bugs assigned to me when certain animations were <60fps on the
6s, even if they worked on newer phones like the xs. The 6s is especially
prone to this as i recall because the point:pixel scaling is 3x vs 2x/4x on
other phones.

~~~
neuronic
Btw - thank you for working hard at making this smooth. My SO had a 6S until 2
months ago and only during iOS 11 it was not smooth. iOS 12 and 13 were
perfect and apart from the camera she says she kind of misses the 6S for its
smaller form factor. The other benefits of newer generations simply don't
matter to many users. WhatsApp/Insta/Email/Maps runs just fine on an A9 or A13
and her main game is 2D chess....

------
captaincrowbar
There's a good reason why Apple aren't making the small form factor phone lots
of you are asking for: logistics.

The new SE requires very little new manufacturing capacity. The case and
probably battery are from the iPhone 8; the CPU/GPU/SOC and most of the rest
of the electronics are from the iPhone 11; the camera still seems to be a
slightly unknown quantity but the specs suggest it has a lot in common with
the iPhone X camera. No doubt a certain amount of tricky engineering was
required to put those parts together efficiently, but the SE requires almost
no new manufacturing capacity beyond the final assembly line. For Apple it's
pretty much a no-brainer.

A hypothetical "iPhone Classic", with modern innards in an iPhone 4/5 form
factor case, would be a very different matter. You couldn't combine the 11's
CPU with the 5's battery - battery life would be laughable. So you'd need to
use a CPU from an earlier model; I suspect you'd have to go back at least to
the 8 to find a CPU that doesn't drain an iPhone 5 size battery like water
through a sieve. That means keeping one more CPU fabrication line in business
beyond its intended life, taking that capacity away from the plants that are
making silicon for the iPhone 11 and the coming 12. The camera would of course
also have to be based on an earlier model, with all the same downsides again
in terms of keeping old technology going and taking up factory capacity. And
fitting all that into a 4/5 case would still be a much bigger engineering feat
than the actual SE 2.

Bottom line: Even if you assume that the "iPhone Classic" market would be as
big as that for the SE 2, it's hard to see how it would be worth Apple's time
and money to cater to it. If you want to argue that the Classic would be a
practical proposition for Apple, you would have to claim that the Classic
market would be much bigger than the SE 2 - and given how popular the SE 2 is
already turning out to be, that seems really unlikely.

~~~
coldpie
All that makes sense, but forget Apple, one of the Android manufacturers
should serve this market. I feel like there's a sizeable niche that could fund
one small, high quality Android phone. It's really never been done; all the
small phones that have come out have been compromised in some way. Sony's
Xperia Compact line came the closest, but it doesn't use stock Android, which
is a huge point against it. I feel like it can't be _that_ hard: there are so
many huge phones on the market. Just nix one of those models, put mid-to-high-
range components in it, put a small display on it, chuck stock Android on it,
and boom, you've just dominated a niche.

~~~
jxcl
Palm makes a phone that might fit what you're looking for

[https://palm.com/](https://palm.com/)

~~~
aidenn0
How did I not know about this? I just replaced my phone, so I can't really
justify the switch, but that is almost exactly the phone I want! My only
nitpick would be 32GB storage seems insufficient since android takes multiple
GB of that and music collections plus a few apps will use up the rest quite
quickly.

[edit] On My phone "System" is listed as 11 GB, other google apps add up to
another couple GB, and my music collection is 14GB so out-of-the-box I could
see me having just 5GB free with no other apps.

~~~
unethical_ban
I just learned about it, too. Your complaint doesn't jive with the purpose of
the device: A communication device.

It makes specific points to say that it is meant for those who don't want the
phone to be a distraction. I don't recall the camera specs, but I can't
imagine it's good by 2020 standards. Music, sure - it seems like the right
size for a good MP3 player (remember that term, kids?)

I like the _idea_ of a palm phone. Part of me thinks about getting a phone
like it, and then a Oneplus 7T phablet, and swapping the SIM like you would
swap a watch for different occasions.

Actually, depending on the response time and the reliability of getting SMS
and calls post-swap, that sounds tempting...

~~~
readyp1
Depending on your carrier, you could do this without swapping SIMs -- as far
as I know, all of the Big Three in the US (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T) all have
"number-sharing" programs normally reserved for things like smartwatches. In
fact, Palm specifically advertises that they work with Verizon and T-Mobile,
and proposes alternatives for other networks
([https://palm.com/pages/companion](https://palm.com/pages/companion)). If
you're serious about this, it sounds worth looking into!

------
labster
I don't really see his attempts to use the new gestures on the old-design
iPhone as proof that the new UI is better. People still tell me to "tape" long
after it was obvious that DVRs are better. It's simply muscle memory.

Still not sure that this my next phone though, probably going to stick with
the old school SE. I had asked work for an upgrade, got the giant XR, and
after five days put it right back in the box and handed it back. Presumably
someone else at work got it. But I didn't want to carry a brick everywhere.
Honestly something the shape of the iPhone 1 would be fine -- a little thicker
to put a better camera in and more battery, but doesn't require me to take a
dual-wielding feat on my next level up.

The new SE/2 seems workable -- if not what I want in terms of size. But I
doubt I'm going to convince my work to buy me a new phone in this economy, and
I'm happy with the old SE, so I guess this one is a pass. It's cool that Apple
made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price
wasn't that relevant.

~~~
p1necone
> "It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone"

It's only cheap relative to Apples other phones, it's still outside of the
range I'd consider reasonable. Although it seems the reason most people spend
so much on phones is to get better cameras? Which I'm not particularly
bothered about - maybe it's worth it for that.

~~~
freepor
I've upgraded my iPhone five times, just recently to the SE, and each time
it's been exclusively for the camera. Literally exclusively, since in many
other respects the functionality is going in reverse (loss of home button,
touch ID, headphone port, etc.) I swallow it all for a better camera.

------
mbesto
> Once you get used to the post-iPhone-X interaction model, there’s no going
> back. A week with the new SE has not shaken my belief that the X-style
> interaction design is superior. Not one iota.

I have an iPhone 8 (TouchID) and an iPad Pro (FaceID) and personally the
multi-tasking gestures are ridiculously inferior to the home button. FaceID is
nice (ApplePay, unlocking, etc) but switching to another app (multi-tasking)
is _painful_ in the "post-iPhone-X interaction model". Am I alone in this or
is it a learned behavior that I simply haven't gotten over the hump yet?

EDIT: Turns out there is some nuance to iPad vs iPhone. I should also note
that I'm probably referring moreso to the multi-app interface on an iPad
(where you can have two apps running at the same time), which is still weird
to me. Sliding left and right makes sense - get it now, but you have to
remember what your last app interaction was. Also, weird downvotes?

~~~
JonathonW
I don’t find getting into the multitasking switcher meaningfully harder on the
newer devices— it’s just a swipe-up-and-hold gesture, which I’ll occasionally
time wrong and end up at the home screen, but not often enough to be “painful”
(and it’s just another swipe away if I do mess up).

What is _vastly_ better on the X-series devices, though, is switching between
your two or three most recent apps. Just swipe left and right at the bottom of
the screen (on the bar)— this lets you flip between apps in the order that
they’re in the switcher. This means I very rarely actually enter the full
multitasking switcher in normal use.

(The other, minor benefit of the new-style gestures is that they’re all
cancellable and map directly to finger movement, but that’s more of a “feel”
thing than a major usability win. Makes it feel Apple-y, though.)

~~~
aequitas
> Just swipe left and right at the bottom of the screen (on the bar)— this
> lets you flip between apps in the order that they’re in the switcher. This
> means I very rarely actually enter the full multitasking switcher in normal
> use.

Did Apple make this a all or nothing thing or do some of these gestures also
work on home button devices?

~~~
JonathonW
All or nothing, IIRC. Home button devices do have a gesture to switch directly
between apps (3D touch on the left edge of the screen), but I always found it
difficult to activate reliably, especially with a case on my phone.

~~~
aikinai
I haven't used a home button iPhone in a long time so I'm not sure about them,
but home button iPads definitely support the X gestures.

~~~
JonathonW
Home button iPads get some of the X gestures— they get swipe up for home and
multitasking, but not the right/left gestures on the home bar (because it’s
not there). The loss of those isn’t that big of a deal, though, since iPads
have the four-finger multitasking gestures as well.

------
Thorentis
Those benchmarks are impressive. iPhone SE beating the 2019 MBP in single core
performance? That's fantastic!

I wish I could comment on or know what he was talking about with the iPhone X
vs "old iPhone" interaction paradigm. I personally thought the "single button"
hardware interface was an incredible innovation that changed everything. Even
Android relies on it. My Galaxy S9+ has a "software home button" (like most
Androids do) in place of the iPhone's. I'll have to find a friend with an
iPhone X or later to try the new swipe up gestures and see if they are indeed
better.

~~~
noncoml
Fun fact: iPhone's buttons are not mechanical buttons starting with iPhone 7.
The click you feel when you press it is just the taptic engine.

If you have an iPhone 7 or 8, try turning it off and try to press the button.

~~~
riffraff
I knew this was true, as you can't click it when battery is off, but I still
don't get it: how does it work, and why?

~~~
jolux
How: haptic feedback using a weighted linear actuator.

Why: I suspect because it debuted with the iPhone 7, the first officially
water resistant iPhone, that it was a waterproofing move to get rid of
possible ingress points.

~~~
culturestate
> I suspect...it was a waterproofing move

I've always assumed it was partially about reliability and partially about
saving space, since water-resistant physical buttons are fairly standard
components.

The phone needs to have some form of haptic motor anyway, and switching to a
virtual button allows them to eliminate a complex moving part - removing one
potential point of failure - while freeing up a few cubic millimeters of
internal volume.

Anecdotally, the home buttons always seemed to be one of the more fragile
parts of an iPhone, to the degree that many people started to use the on-
screen assistive touch dialogs to avoid wear and tear.

------
jachee
This is _exactly_ the phone my wife wants to upgrade from her showing-its-age,
5-year-old 6S. It'll fit into her existing case. It's not too big. It's
affordable. It still has a home button.

She's hardly a power user, so this might be the one phone she gets for the
_next_ five year, too.

~~~
pb7
>It still has a home button.

Why is this a benefit? The removal of the home button might have been the best
thing since the home button itself. The gesture that replaced is an order of
magnitude better.

~~~
c0nducktr
FaceID doesn't work when I'm using my phone in bed. I lie on my side, and
can't unlock my phone.

Maybe that's weird, but it's something that I've been frustrated with _every
single day_ since upgrading from the 6s.

~~~
danielscrubs
Same, switched to Samsung A70. Every night at bedtime I swear at the FaceID
not working nor (!) the under the screen Touch ID until the 8:th try. Even a
headphone cable touching the screen will wake the screen up.

Having rounded sides is also something that just reeks of Windows XP blue
theme to me. Playful but utter useless (for the grip). I have to remember to
not squeeze the phone too hard every time because then it will hit the ground
or clicking on the sides.

The old iPhone SE was amazing. I wish the new one had the same form-factor
with better battery but put the touch id on the back to allow for a near edge
to edge screen (but keep the steel border so I don't accidentally touch the
screen).

While dreaming, I wish the reviewers would actually try living with the
phones, because pretty much all the reviewers can be replaced with a spec-
sheet at this point.

~~~
black3r
Hm.. have you tried the Face ID on iPhones or just the Samsung A70 and other
single-camera style Face ID? My iPhone 11's Face ID works without issues even
at night in bed, but I've used Honor 10 before and had a lot of issues with
its face recog including night usability, so I rather disabled it..

Also headphone cable doesn't wake up my iPhone 11.

~~~
danielscrubs
Only tried the Samsung one. Considering switching back to iPhone.

------
gordon_freeman
> "What this source told me is that while developing the iPhone X, members of
> the team would typically carry two phones with them: a prototype iPhone X
> they could use, but (of course) not while in the presence of anyone who
> wasn’t disclosed on the project, and an older iPhone they could use in front
> of anyone. These team members would spend time, every day, using both
> phones. They knew they were onto a winning idea with the new interaction
> design for the iPhone X when they started instinctively using the X-style
> gestures on the older iPhone, and never vice versa. When a new design is
> clearly better than an old one, it’s a one-way street mentally."

Gives some insights into how Apple designers think about UX! Pretty cool!

------
notRobot
> So, yes, a $400 iPhone SE bests a $3,000 top-of-the-line MacBook Pro in
> single-core CPU performance.

This is baffling.

~~~
loosescrews
Beating the laptop is impressive, but the top of the line part was unnecessary
and counter productive. More expensive CPUs often have more cores running at a
slower speed. For example, the bottom end 16" MacBook Pro comes with a 2.6 GHz
CPU and the top end one comes with a 2.4 GHz CPU. Yes, there is Turbo Boost
which can in some cases turn off cores in exchange for higher clock
frequencies, but good luck getting much out of that given Apple's thermal
design.

~~~
rayhendricks
I don’t think Apple is considering the A13 unnecessarily on the SE2. The A13
will allow for it to be “fast” for like 5 more years.
Corporations/governments/non-us lower income counties are going to love this
phone especially BRICs imo. This was the absolute best choice Apple could make
for a ‘generic’ phone to eat google & androids lunch.

~~~
grwthckrmstr
iPhone SE 2020 launching at about 42,500 Indian rupees. OnePlus 8 is launching
at 41,999 INR.

iPhone SE is by no means a "budget" phone in our country

~~~
rayhendricks
Maybe there is a currency/tax issue driving the price up? One plus 8 is
starting at $699USD while the iPhone SE 2020 has been available for $199 at
Walmart although it is though an installment plan to keep people with
att/Verizon.
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/hurr...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/hurry-
new-iphone-se-2020-deal-drops-price-to-just-dollar199)

This also doesn’t include tax, so it ends up being more like $438 for the base
model without promotions.

------
JohnJamesRambo
I still wish they hadn't made it so big. I use my iPhone SE because it isn't
the size of an iPhone 8.

------
kabacha
The obsession with this phone never ceases to amaze me. I'm really trying to
get it but I think there's very vocal minority discussing this: american
iphone fans.

I would never imagine buying a 64GB non-expandable phone with a single camera
and such absurd screen for 480€ in 2020. New 128GB+sd slot s10e is around 450€
and that did small form factor _right_.

For a tech forum the iphone se obsession just seems so alien to the point
where it all feels like astroturfing.

~~~
kube-system
I too used to buy phones based on their hardware specs.

Then I got frustrated that I had to buy a new device every 2 years just to get
a software update. My 5 year old iPhone got iOS 13.4 at the same time as
everyone else.

~~~
kabacha
I'm sorry but if you're looking to use the same phone for 5 years then you're
an absolute minority. Smartphone medium progresses really quick - 5 years is a
very very long period of time. Even for laptops - a relative ancient medium
that has very little new meaningful inovation - 5 years is still a long time.

~~~
kube-system
Because most phones are junk after 5 years, not because people like to dump
$400-$1000 bucks every 24 months. Most people don't _want_ to replace their
phone on a regular basis, unless they are enthusiasts. "It got slow" or "the
battery doesn't last anymore" or "I broke my phone" are very common reasons
why people upgrade.

People want their durable goods to last. Stats have shown that people have
been keeping their smartphones longer for the past handful of years as the
technology is maturing. This will continue as tech improves, just like it has
for every other durable good.

------
kitotik
> a $400 iPhone SE bests a

> $3,000 top-of-the-line

> MacBook Pro in single-core

> CPU performance.

Whenever I see these sorts of benchmarks, it just makes me focus on how much
iOS is the limiting factor of these devices.

~~~
rubber_duck
When I see those benchmarks I wonder what they are actually measuring because
it's very likely not general purpose compute.

~~~
kitotik
Geekbench is a fairly understood metric isn’t it?

It at least attempts to simulate ‘general’ workloads.

~~~
rubber_duck
I don't know what goes in to the benchmark but if Apple had CPUs that
outperform last gen 35-45W chip with a 5-10w one in a passively cooled 5 inch
phone everyone and their mother would be reverse engineering their designs and
building ARM datacenters. From what I've seen so far all the server ARM CPUs
struggle to reach x86 performance.

~~~
FrankBooth
> everyone and their mother would be reverse engineering their designs and
> building ARM datacenters

Isn't this (more or less) NUVIA's strategy?

------
Shivetya
Significant but not mentioned is the price for Apple Care is $79 vs $149 for
this phone (US prices). With Theft Coverage it is $100 less than other phones.
Replacement under that coverage is $50 less.

For me it means if I want to buy my elderly parents an Apple Watch I can buy
them this phone and have a cost almost comparable with existing A13 phones by
themselves; $399+$399 vs $699($599 XR)+$399

------
throwaway7281
I bought one old SE from the final batch, just because the 113g, its
dimensions are perfectly fine with me. I'd like to write some AR code (and
might buy an 2020 SE for that), but for normal use, the SE for me is peak
iPhone/smartphone.

------
ksec
Does anyone have an answer as to whether the Camera Sensor is really the one
from XR? Because so far everyone have it settle on being the same as iPhone 8
_apart_ from Gruber which claims the sensor is from XR.

------
fomine3
As an Japanese who often wearing a face mask in winter, I really hope Apple to
stop adopting FaceID since they released iPhone X. And now, people all over
the world start wearing face masks. Even Apple advertises that iPhone SE
supports TouchID. I hope Apple changes the decision for next model.

------
man007
I prefer the smaller form factor. I'd like to move to a more secure/privacy
conscious OS, so I am thinking about switching to this iPhone. Currently using
a Pixel 3, I like the phone and well embedded in Google's ecosystem. Wondering
how hard it'll be to switch over

------
bpyne
Currently I have an iPhone 6. I considered going to an iPhone 11 in the next
few months until the iPhone SE was announced.

I like that the SE can fit in my pocket as easily as my current phone. The
price is also attractive, although I tend to keep phones until they become too
slow and battery life becomes an issue.

However, I'm frustrated constantly by typing on it. Just typing a couple of
sentences in a text message can take minutes. (I'm a 60 wpm touch typist on a
standard keyboard.) It's become so bad that I'm moving back to a laptop for
most communication. My phone is coming close to a read-only device.

Is the 11's size enough help for typing that it's worth the price?

If so, does it fit in your pocket, i.e. how do you keep it on you?

~~~
tolqen
I've never had an issue with pocketability even with the largest phones on the
market. I don't really understand the problem. Do you have really tiny
pockets?

~~~
bpyne
Thanks for the reply. I tested with my wife's phone. It fit pretty well so I
went for the iPhone 11. It came yesterday and I love it, not the least because
I can type easier.

------
graeme
> I’ve used it exclusively for hours at a stretch and I never stopped
> expecting it to act like a post-iPhone-X device. I swipe up from the bottom
> to go home or multitask.

Fairly sure apple could put that interface on these phones. On home button
ipads you can swipe up to go home, and swipe left/right along the bottom to
switch apps.

I wish apple would add this, but I think they wanted to keep new iphones
exclusive. (The more benign possibility is that there wasn’t the space to do
left/right swipes without messing with some app functionality)

------
sldan
Here are the measures of iPhone SE (4.7" screen) compared to iPhone XS (5.8"
screen):

138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm (5.45 x 2.65 x 0.29 in)

143.6 x 70.9 x 7.7 mm (5.65 x 2.79 x 0.30 in)

For half a cm extra in length I get 2.5 cm extra in screen size with the XS. I
would have liked a smaller phone and if this were similar in size to the
original SE, I might have switched, but the true size difference between this
SE and a phone considered "much larger" is negligible (I own both).

------
highmastdon
Nice. I might upgrade my 5-year-old iPhone 6 to the new SE. Hopefully the
build quality didn’t have to suffer too much and this iPhone SE last another 5
years

------
blackrock
I disagree. The home button is a superior interface, as compared to the swipe
up.

By removing the home button, Apple took away another physical control
interface. You can still swipe up, with the presence of the home button.

Instead of removing the home button, Apple could have used the bottom area to
install some other context sensitive touch controls. Like the MacBook Touch
Bar.

How the heck are you supposed to go for a jog, and carry a large screen phone
on you?

------
Finnucane
I've got one on order to replace my iphone 5. It's not my ideal but it's
getting to the point where not being able to update stuff is a problem, and
right now being able to use Applepay is getting to be more of an advantage. At
least it won't have face id or any of that crap. I figure since this has the
newest cpu at least it should be a while before Apple obsoletes it.

------
fouc
Interesting point that iPhone SE might be hard for people used to iPhone X or
later to downgrade to due to the swipe gestures.

~~~
loosescrews
I have been using Sailfish for years which uses swipe gestures similar to the
iPhone X et al. I recently had to get an iPhone for work and all they had was
the 8. Getting used to the button was really hard.

I have found myself reaching for the home button when using Sailfish though. I
am completely convinced that the gesture UI is superior, but I couldn't relate
to the whole not reaching for the home button thing mentioned in the article.

------
zelos
No information about battery life. From the specs it has the same battery as
the iPhone 8, but a more efficient CPU so presumably it's going to last a bit
longer? The 8's battery life was generally pretty good IIRC.

------
mettamage
Time to do this type of stuff then: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-
OPXK2ig](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig)

I hope there's a way to upgrade the CPU.

------
memsom
For me, an iPhone 6s hold out, this looks like a solid upgrade. The 6s is
beginning to show its age (battery is creaky, processor is slower than my
wife's 8, camera is so-so.) Tempted to be sure.

------
jingfire
I just wish it has a full screen with the same size. I used both iPhone X and
Max. Both are too big to operate with one hand, although I do like the full
screen experience a lot.

------
mtarnovan
> So, yes, a $400 iPhone SE bests a $3,000 top-of-the-line MacBook Pro in
> single-core CPU performance.

Lies, damn lies and benchmarks? I don't believe that for a second.

~~~
dewey
Why? The iPad Pro is beating MacBook's in benchmarks all the time.

~~~
gruez
In what, geekbench? I'd reserve my judgement until there's some real life
benchmark (eg. cinebench).

------
bsharitt
Too bad this isn't based on the iPhone 8 Plus chassis. I'd like a budget
iPhone, but I don't want a tiny phone.

------
radicalriddler
I don't think I can justify, no matter how good the hardware is, relative to
the value of the phone compared to other leaders in the market, buying a phone
in mid 2020 without 5G support. It lends its self I guess to my opposition to
buying every 1 or 2 years.

~~~
traden210
I honestly don't understand what direct benefit that I, a consumer, get from
5G (mmwave or normal spectrum)? My 4G device already can stream 1080p video at
high quality. For every use case that I have with my phone, 5G doesn't appear
to offer any material improvement.

Sure, the carriers can make more out of their bandwidth, but that's not really
something I'm willing to pay for.

And, it's not like 4G is going anywhere, it'll be continued to be supported
for a long time.

Actually, considering the impact on battery life that 5G has on consumer
devices... I don't think I actually want it, to be honest. Don't get me wrong,
I won't resist a natural upgrade when I upgrade my iphone 8 in 2-3 years, but
I'm not seeking it out either.

~~~
WildGreenLeave
I had this discussion with another friend yesterday, and for 99% I agree with
you. He told me about one thing that stuck with me and why I do see some value
in 5G networks.

He told me that 5G is able to handle more traffic (= more connections) per
tower _. So on some busy places like festivals or other places where there is
a huge crowd 5G could help to let all those people access their internet. Of
course you could make an argument of "why would all those people need access
to the internet" but that isn't the point.

Other than the point above I don't see a value in consumer 5G either.

_ I do not have a source, so if this is wrong then my/his points becomes
complete moot.

~~~
macintux
The million dollar question is how long it will be before huge crowds are safe
again.

~~~
cccfvgf
The expression should be upgraded to “trillion dollar question”!

For the US alone.

------
ncdlek
I relieved. I should keep my iPhone 7 for a few years more.

------
KuhlMensch
The only reason i don't like bigger form factor, is bend-ability.

But thats not a big deal.

Next time I upgrade a household phone (iPhone7 and 2016SE) it will be this one

------
ttizya20
didn't read, not buying

------
admiralspoo
I'm not sure why DaringFireball is still relevant in 2020.

~~~
zapzupnz
What exactly about $current_year stops an Apple-related blog being relevant
when Apple still exists, makes products worthy of scrutiny, and is one of the
biggest companies in the world?

I fail to see what it is about $current_year that makes careful, cogent, and
balanced discourse about Apple irrelevant.

------
freepor
The most annoying part of Apple is that they make excellent products but their
"fandom" talks about the appearance of the computer for the first good chunk
of the review.

~~~
saagarjha
Part of the appeal of an Apple product is how it looks.

------
gofreddygo
Yeah whatever. One thing all the iPhone SE reviews from the pundits I've read
miss is how Apple, mighty Apple, with all it's brand loyalty and design
excellence was forced by the market to take a stable version of the design and
release it for a third of the cost of its flagship. Reasons?

* iPhone sales have been dropping consistently.

* No new gimmick to drive flagship price higher.

* Economy is heading to the dumpster

* Apple Services are generating more revenue. So Cheaper entry level device = more device sales = more service sales = money keeps flowing.

~~~
rsynnott
Like the first SE (and the far less successful iPhone 5C) this is an attempt
to sell to a more price-sensitive market that wouldn't consider their
flagships in the first place. It's also not exactly unique; Samsung has
everything from 100 euro units to those folding phones that cost twice as much
as an 11 Pro, say.

The original SE didn't noticeably cannibalise the flagships, and it was in
some ways a more appealing device than this (it filled the "smaller" niche,
whereas it's hard to see how this one is in any way better than an 11 Pro).

~~~
gofreddygo
The first SE and the 5C were redesigned models. This version is unique in that
it is not unique. Its a goddam rebrand of the iphone 8 sold at prices cheaper
than any of the iphones ever. 5c was priced $649 for a 64 GB unlocked version.

~~~
rsynnott
This is an iPhone 8 with mostly iPhone 11 internals, costing $400.

The original SE was a 5S with mostly 6S parts, costing $400.

The 5c was an outlier; it was both more expensive and more unique.

