

Can you fire someone for disparaging your company on Facebook? - trustfundbaby
http://venturebeat.com/2011/02/21/can-you-fire-someone-for-disparaging-your-company-on-facebook/

======
bartonfink
Why do people insist on bringing the First Amendment into these discussions?
Unless you work for the government, the First Amendment doesn't say anything
about the relationship between your speech and your employer's reactions to
that speech. If you say something I don't like, I can punch you square in the
face and the First Amendment says NOTHING about it. I'll get brought up on
assault charges, but free speech is simply a non-issue.

Yes, you absolutely can fire someone for disparaging your company on Facebook.
You can also deal with the NON-LEGAL fallout from doing so because I'm pretty
sure that, if word gets around that you fire people for talking about not
liking their job, your company's reputation is going to take a serious
nosedive.

~~~
JoachimSchipper
As I understand the article, this is not a free speech issue but a free
association (e.g. union-forming) issue: if you can't (easily) discuss your
working conditions, it becomes very hard to organize. E.g. "MyCo sucks" may
still be prohibited in specific agreements, but "MyCo pays $10/hour and makes
you work long hours" is perfectly fine. (Think ea_spouse.)

~~~
notahacker
I'd have thought the other big question is whether Facebook was considered to
be quasi-private channel for employees to share concerns with each other or a
broadcast medium.

~~~
stcredzero
Clearly, the law has to catch up and start addressing social graph media
directly as an intermediate but distinct form.

------
sophacles
Dear employers everywhere,

I don't know why you all seem to have forgotten you time as a worker, but I am
certain you complained to your friends about your job back then. Further, I am
certain you thought the management was idiots. Those of you who are middle
management probably still do these things. Please, tell me why you think this
same stuff doesn't apply to your employees? Do you think you know best, and
everyone else is wrong? (Odds are against you by a wide margin on that one).
Do you think you are the best and they are just ungrateful -- that you
remember bitching and have now implemented the perfect system? (once again,
the odds suggest this thinking is wrong)

Aside from your perception, lets take it for granted for a few moments that
people will always bitch about their employer, their clients, their co-
workers, whatever. This is a natural result of being forced into a lot of
"together time". It comes from various stresses in the quest for better
hierarchy position. It comes from the conflict of viewpoints when working
towards a common goal. People bitch because they let out the stuff they have
kept in at work -- it is simply venting. People who hear venting know it too,
they listen but don't give it too much weight, because venting is just what we
do to relieve types of stress.

Historically venting has occurred to family and friends at barbeques, coffee
shops, church, the local bar, and other such gathering places. These things
are just part of the fabric of the social structure we have right now. Lately
the Internet has become part of the hangout/socialize scene. It is essentially
the internet's neighborhood bar, where venting happens. People still know it
is venting. But for some reason, you as an employer don't want to allow
venting.

I get that you have fears of someone deciding not to buy your widgets based on
a employee letting off some steam. I will tell you that in my whole life, I
have only rarely seen someone lose business as the result of a venting
employee. It is something that people don't include into the equation very
often. It usually takes far more vindictive actions than mere complaint and
trash-talking to have business suffer -- usually a smear campaign that has
actually been organized and premeditated. In fact I strongly suspect that your
concern is actually rooted in a fear that people will think poorly of you
personally rather than some vague widget sales notion. Perhaps your ego is
taking a blow you don't like?

I would propose that facebook offers an opportunity for you, one that is new
to our era: you can find out what your employees are saying! You don't have to
send spies to the bar or put moles in the workforce anymore, you can just go
to Facebook and twitter to read up on yourself. Further, instead of getting
the second-hand report, almost certainly skewed to make the reporter look
good, you can just see the complaint. If you can get past your hurt feelings
(and I submit that a good manager should be able to do this), you now have an
opportunity:

You can actually address those concerns! You can start making changes based on
what people think is bad, restrictive, or otherwise hindering their work. This
will make you a good employer in the eyes of your employees. It earns you
loyalty and higher productivity. What it won't do, is make the employees stop
bitching. This is just how it goes.

Regards,

Someone who wants you to stop sucking

------
darklajid
What am I missing? Why is "on Facebook" part of the question? Is "Facebook"
really adding something here? Is the answer different if I put in IRC, Quora,
NNTP?

Edit: Note that I know that the article uses this headline (so I'm not trying
to blame the submitter). I just wonder if this is useful?

~~~
absconditus
If they did not use "Facebook" in the title no one would read this incredibly
ignorant article.

------
Tyrannosaurs
Interesting question.

The right to free speech and the right to free speech without consequence
would seem to me to be different things. If the first amendment allowed people
to say what they want without consequence then there would be no such thing as
libel or slander. The fact that they exist suggest that this obviously isn't
the case.

So there's going to be an element of whether what was said was broadly
factually accurate and / or whether it was put forward in a vaguely
constructive way. Obviously if it wasn't then it would potentially be
libellous which would very clearly seem to be a disciplinary matter (though
whether it's a sacking offence isn't clear).

I'd be curious to know how the same lawyer would see a scenario where I
continually publicly insulted my wife. Grounds for divorce (which is how I'd
see it) or would that be impacting my first amendment rights?

~~~
dwc
The 1st Amendment doesn't say anything about what people, companies or anyone
else aside from Congress can or cannot do. Here's the complete First
Amendment:

 _Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances._

As a private citizen, there is _no possible way_ that I can violate your first
amendment rights.

