
A college professor gives her students extra credit for going on dates - Spellman
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/04/16/this-college-professor-gives-her-students-extra-credit-for-going-on-dates/
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econner
One of the things I didn’t appreciate until leaving college was how much the
world narrows. In college you’re surrounded by people at similar life stages
who are more open to new experiences and to meeting new people (or at least
more so than after). It’s a lot more difficult to form new friendships after
college and that seems especially true now that phones and other entertainment
occupy downtime attention. Texting has emerged as the dominant form of
communication and it’s easier than ever to flake on plans since all you need
to do is send a text. People seem to be increasingly isolated, lonely, and
unhappy.

And this is all very new having only really emerged around 2009 - 2010 or so.

~~~
brianwawok
You can find similar people, it just takes more work.

One good outlet is work. Usually you can find a few similar people there.

The other good outlet is hobbies. Love running? Join a running club. Lots of
people who love running. Similar mindset + common interest = a good pool to
meet people from.

Just surfing facebook won't find you people, no..

------
DoreenMichele
Historically, women basically aimed to marry well. Men had careers. Women had
husband's to provide for them.

A lot of those relationships weren't terribly emotionally intimate. I married
my best friend. But a lot of marriages were never like that.

Now, women want careers. Juggling two careers is hard. Fewer women want
children.

If you are both going to work and support yourself, then the primary thing you
want from a "relationship" is sex.

I mean, I'm 52. I'm not the hookup type. I had a long marriage. I'm not easy
to get next to.

But this idea that both people will have serious careers and also a deep,
intimate relationship and also also kids...

There's only 24 hours in the day. That's not a very realistic expectation for
most people.

In that context, hookup culture makes sense. All our fairy tale ending stories
are posited on an old fashioned marriage where she's a full time wife and he
provides for her. If that isn't your mental model, if you expect some other
basis for your life, well, that has knock off effects that it's gauche to talk
about because people don't like looking at marriage as a kind of financial
contract. But that's what it is.

~~~
PGenes
Is it really true that the primary thing we want from a relationship is sex?
Yes we want sex but what about companionship, a fellow traveller, someone to
love and be loved by? These maybe harder to achieve but I think these are
things people are 'primarily' looking for in relationships. Cheap sex isn't
that hard to find, and for most men at least, sex alone is not enough to
justify the effort involved in a relationship. I suspect the same applies with
at least equal force to women.

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jessriedel
This is consistent with my college experience but maximally inconsistent with
post-college: because of online dating, many people can and do go on more
coffee-only first-dates than previous generations ever did. Maybe that means
they are being psychologically warped by perceived disposability, but they
certainly aren't lacking in practice talking with strangers.

~~~
jeffreyrogers
I'm not sure if it's in the article or not, but the professor requires her
students to ask people out in person. In my experience, both from dating and
from talking to male and female friends, this is significantly less common now
than in the past. And I've noticed that on planes and while waiting in lines
people talk with strangers less than when I was a kid.

~~~
ci5er
Not my mom. She talks to everyone anyway. Sometimes she even pinches their
cheeks and hugs them. Crazy old bat.

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jamestimmins
Flexing these types of social muscles can be an amazing experience. One of my
biggest confidence boosters came from asking out a woman whom I'd just met,
and then getting turned down.

We were at a pet store, and happened to chat briefly about our dogs. I asked
if she'd like to grab coffee, and she said she had a boyfriend. We chatted a
bit more about our dogs, and went our separate ways.

It was amazing to see that this type of experience doesn't need to be scary,
and can feel extremely normal. I don't know many others who have experienced
either side of that type of interaction, so it's encouraging to see this
professor is encouraging it in her students.

~~~
nkrisc
I think a lot of people are afraid of this sort of scenario because they think
it will be "awkward" or "weird."

One thing I've learned in life is a situation is only weird if you make it
weird.

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Jhsto
From my anecdotal experience, being out of your comfort zone is the actual
highway to relationships.

I used to live in a house in a foreign country to which people from my home
country crashed to during their short, usually few week visits at the area.
Surprisingly, the people who came there were exceptionally open (exceptional
as in compared to a usual native). Most of them came either alone or with one
friend/business partner. I think a lot of their openness attributed to the
fact that they were in a temporary, new environment.

I also noticed that being open myself first helped to initiate deep
conversations. But after returning to home and to college, despite continuing
to prompt these discussions, I rarely get the same kind of reaction anymore.

My general observation is that my peers are happy to answer questions I have,
but they lack the social skills to listen and ask leading questions. But then
again, this might just be that they find me uninteresting as a person, but the
difference is worryingly stark -- out of 30 people I've befriended on Facebook
only a few have I had conversations deep enough I'd consider to meet up with
them just to talk. The numbers were very much the opposite if you'd compare it
to the experience in the foreign land.

Thus, I think it is silly to have fear of missing out on relationships or a
partner during college. With the new brave world of remote working, I could as
well make a living in the opposite end of the planet just a mere day after
graduation, to which I am quite sure most of the peers won't (or wouldn't)
follow me anyway.

------
MaupitiBlue
As someone in their 40's who dates girls in their 20's, I've definitely found
this to be true. Many of the girls I got out with have never been on a
traditional date. I get the impression that the experience of being picked up,
taken to a nice restaurant, being conversed with, and not worrying about the
bill is something out of the twilight zone for them.

Young guys, you're doing it wrong, but as an old fogey, I'm not complaining.

~~~
incredible12345
As someone in their 20's, going for traditional dates of coffee/dinner and
conversation is all I do. I have been on about 30 dates in the last year and
they were all traditional dates. I've also never tried for anything within the
realm of casual dating ever.

I really don't think your claim would hold up to light in my experience dude.
All of the women were readily aware that it was a date and none of the dates
really went anywhere.

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ardit33
I was expecting a metoo story. It was a refreshing read.

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Taniwha
For those who TLDR .... this is for dates with each other, not her

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whataretensors
Another way to measure people by attractiveness or agreeableness or some other
attribute that doesn't matter for engineering. The goal is likely to give a
certain demographic good grades, like almost all of K-12.

------
wiradikusuma
Maybe because of age (I'm 35) or culture (I'm in Asian country), but I don't
get it. To get laid, you need to go through the process of dating: Ask her
out, lots of "bullshit" (a matter on perspective), spend time and money, and
if you're lucky, you'll get laid.

Maybe what she meant is "in serious relationship"?

~~~
dqpb
All that "bullshit" she puts you through is probably her way of trying to
figure out if you're someone she could have a relationship with or just
another dickhead trying to get laid.

~~~
xstartup
Some guys end up putting their everything (money, reputation, efforts and huge
time) and still don't get anything meaningful out of it.

~~~
pmoriarty
_" Some guys end up putting their everything (money, reputation, efforts and
huge time) and still don't get anything meaningful out of it."_

Relationships are not a one-way street or a vending machine. You can't expect
to just pump in a bunch of time and money and for the product to automatically
come popping out.

There has to be some chemistry between the two of you... the other person has
to actually like you. That takes more than effort, money or time. It takes
developing a genuine connection, which in turn usually requires an emotional
investment, an opening up to the other person, having shared values, a shared
view of the world, perhaps even a sense of humor that the other person finds
funny, and so on.

Unless, of course, you're just looking to get laid.. in which case a sex
worker might be a better use of your money.

~~~
xstartup
"There has to be some chemistry between the two of you... the other person has
to actually like you. That takes more than effort, money or time."

Every woman I pursued ended up costing me $1M. There was all chemistry at the
start but soon it disappeared.

Disappearing love is correlated money transfer from me to them.

I've stopped looking for any love. I've accepted does not exist in real world.

~~~
pmoriarty
There are definitely way too many people (men and women) who are just after
money. One of the downsides of being rich is that those kind of people tend to
sniff you out and come after whatever they can leech off of you.

Being poor, I don't have that problem. If someone likes me, I can be pretty
sure they're not after my money.. because I don't have any.

That said, with or without money, relationships can start out good and turn
sour for many reasons completely unrelated to money. When relationships start,
we're often putting on our best face, and the people we're dating only see the
positive side of us (and we of them). After a while, unless we have
outstanding acting ability (and usually some kind of pathology which keeps us
from being genuine with our loved ones), we start to show our true selves to
each other.. and we (or they) might not like what we see.

That's when relationships can easily fall apart -- especially if both people
aren't mature enough to recognize that most relationships require hard work to
keep them going in the long run, and aren't committed to doing that work.
Communication is especially important at this stage.

What am I doing wrong? How can I do better? What do I want out of this
relationship? At a fundamental level, are we really compatible?

These are questions we have to ask ourselves and each other, but most people
are really bad at communicating -- especially with people close to themselves,
with people who they feel vulnerable to and who they don't want to hurt....
until they can't take it anymore and things blow up.. but by then it's usually
too late to make amends.

So, yeah, if things are going wrong for you over and over, and if you or the
people you're dating are falling in to recognizable patterns, you might want
to start by asking yourself some tough questions.. perhaps with the help of a
good therapist. Negative relationship patterns are one of the things a good
therapist could really help you to break out of -- in more constructive ways
than just giving up.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Unless you are literally homeless and eating at soup kitchens because you have
zero income, then you have some money, even if you aren't rich.

There is always someone who can have less than you. I have seen plenty of
homeless people used for their money by someone claiming romantic interest,
usually women.

When I was a homeless woman, I knew a homeless guy who had fantasies I would
provide for him in exchange for sex. Yeah, no.

I did the homemaker thing and supported my husband's career. It cost me a
career. Time is money as they say. I'm divorced and I am still struggling to
make ends meet.

I'm dirt poor and I very much agree with the GP. Love isn't real.

~~~
pmoriarty
Well, I'm not after other people's money. It sounds like you and GP aren't
after it either. We all want to make genuine connections and have meaningful
relationships.

That makes three of us, and I have a feeling there are many more. We're just
not connecting enough, and have been bitten so much that we stay home licking
our wounds instead of risking getting hurt again.

But it's not because good people aren't out there. They're out there. We just
have to find them somehow, and that takes trying instead of sitting at home.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Trying has taught me the exact same thing the GP has learned: People only ever
take advantage of me. That's it.

I'm not rich, but it has cost me plenty to be kind and generous to people and
I don't need some internet stranger trying to give me some pep talk like I
just haven't tried hard enough.

~~~
pmoriarty
Yes, we are strangers. I don't know you, and don't know what you have or
haven't tried, or how hard you've tried. I don't know who you met and who you
didn't meet, how they treated you or how you treated them.

I, like you, have my own experience of and view on the world, and I was just
expressing it and trying to help -- help not just you but anyone who's reading
this that might be going through something similar.

I've seen so many good people torpedo their own chances, so many people blame
others when they actually had a role to play in the negative way the
relationship went (I'm not saying you're doing this because, as you point out,
I don't know you at all.. but some people certainly do exactly that), and so
many people could do a lot better if they did try more and worked on their
issues more to actually improve their own desirability and ability to cope
with serious relationships.

But if you don't believe me, if you're not convinced or don't think what I say
applies to you, and you prefer to give up, fine. Then what I say is not for
you. Maybe it can encourage someone else who hasn't yet given up.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I have written and erased at least 5 replies here. As nicely as possible, the
approach you are taking is not a good way to be encouraging to bitter people.
It feels on the receiving end very dismissive and like a kick in the teeth.

I'm talented at making other people feel okay about themselves. I'm talented
at taking care of other people and doing right by them, even under extremely
challenging circumstances. The only people who have ever given back on par
with what I gave them is my two sons.

Everyone else seems to essentially say "Thanks for the freebies! (chump! God,
what a fool! Ha ha ha! I can't believe the bitch fell for that!)"

If I ever meet a guy who wants me and is not essentially a blood sucking
vampire, great! But I'm just not holding my breath anymore.

~~~
pmoriarty
_" As nicely as possible, the approach you are taking is not a good way to be
encouraging to bitter people."_

Then what is a good way to be encouraging to bitter people?

I mean, something that is actually encouraging rather than discouraging, and
not something I don't believe. Because I am hopeful about relationships, and
don't believe in simply isolating oneself because the only people you're going
to meet are going to be users and abusers. I just don't believe that's true,
even if some people have been unlucky enough to only meet and be abused by
such horrible people.

~~~
DoreenMichele
For starters, you can stop being judgey. You have described me as giving up
and isolating myself. I haven't said any such thing.

For another, genuine empathy for a person's experiences is a good place to
start.

My youngest son used to have the obnoxious habit of only ever saying "I love
you" as a rebuttal when I was whining that "No one loves me!" until I finally
handed him his head over what rotten behavior that was and told him if he
really loved me, he could say it at times when it didn't amount to shooting me
down gratuitously and kicking me while I was down.

The absolute worst time to tell people "Chin up, tally ho!" is when they are
in a funk -- especially if that's the only interaction they have with you.

I understand where you are coming from precisely because I'm an excessively
optmistic Pollyanna with a bad habit of doing exactly that. It's a habit I
have tried hard to break because it basically never goes anywhere good.

I'm not in a good place today. I don't intend to continue this conversation.
It doesn't really have anything to do with you.

~~~
pmoriarty
_" You have described me as giving up and isolating myself. I haven't said any
such thing."_

You're absolutely right. I saw you say _" Love isn't real"_ and _" Trying has
taught me the exact same thing the GP has learned: People only ever take
advantage of me. That's it,"_ and assumed that because of that you had given
up. I shouldn't have made that assumption, and I apologize for that. I'll also
try to ask myself if I'm in any way being judgmental before I post something
in the future, because that's not my conscious intention -- quite the
opposite.

 _" For another, genuine empathy for a person's experiences is a good place to
start."_

Ok. I'll work on that. I admit that I was too dismissive of your experiences.
I should have had more empathy.

 _" The absolute worst time to tell people "Chin up, tally ho!" is when they
are in a funk -- especially if that's the only interaction they have with
you."_

True. I know how that feels, and I hate it when people do that to me. But I'm
really at a loss as to what to say that could be more genuinely encouraging to
a bitter person. Maybe I shouldn't say anything except offer empathy.

 _" I understand where you are coming from precisely because I'm an
excessively optmistic Pollyanna with a bad habit of doing exactly that."_

That's funny, because I'm usually really pessimistic. I think sometimes my pep
talks are as much for myself as they are for other people.

 _" I'm not in a good place today. I don't intend to continue this
conversation. It doesn't really have anything to do with you."_

I understand. Absolutely no hard feelings on my part. I'm sorry for being
insensitive.

~~~
selestify
I just want to say, as a bystander, thanks for offering your perspective on
this. It's reassuring that someone else feels the same way I do.

As you say, that makes at least four of us who aren't looking for someone with
money. And I get that a lot of the world is like that. Not that I'm judging
the rest of the world, you do you, whoever you are. It just gets frustrating
for me personally sometimes when it feels like I'm the only one in my circle
of friends who feels this way about dating.

So thanks again. I would like to discuss this further with you, if you're up
for it.

