
Ask HN: How Can I leave Syria now and get asylum in Europe (Germany) - aforarnold
Guys,
I am in Syria(specifically in Damascus). Seems war is rolling out. Most of the people are moving to border regions but I cant and I am a programmer worked as a remote dev for an Australian startup. But I am not sure how long I will be able to work living in Syria. I want move to Europe specially in Germany as the startup scene is booming in Berlin. So can you guys give me suggestion of legal way to move in Germany as an asylum and will I be able to work if I can move. I went through google but couldn&#x27;t find much information. And I will be happy to have contact with startups that are hiring dev. I have couple of years backend development experience with Python(Django),LAMP,Node.js and some unix skill. Thanks in advance.
======
level09
I'm a Syrian hacker myself, and I can suggest you a better option. Go to
Dubai, it is easy to get a visit visa first, if you are in damascus you can go
through Beirut Airport as the path is still safe between the cities (got many
friends coming through that route). then you can try to find a job in Dubai
(should be easier as the economy is growing and since you speak the language),
I myself know many startups and companies and will try to help you as well.

if you find a good job in Dubai you might give up the whole idea of moving to
Europe as the standard of living is really high and the country is tax-free
and amazing. but still you should be able to get a Schengen visit visa easily
(especially if you work for a good company).

~~~
ck2
This of course is assuming the poster isn't female.

Do not go to Dubai if you are a woman.

~~~
level09
Not really, if you are a woman that would triple your chances of finding Jobs
and great life.

The amount of respect and importance women get in Dubai is incomparable to any
other country.

~~~
mkl
Rape victims can be jailed for over a year for "extramarital sex". That is not
respect. [http://www.ibtimes.com/dubai-safe-female-travelers-
norwegian...](http://www.ibtimes.com/dubai-safe-female-travelers-norwegian-
woman-jailed-over-rape-report-warns-others-1354317)

~~~
level09
People like to generalize a lot.

for someone who lived in Dubai for 5+ years, I find those stories really
strange. the city is really different than what you get from Media.

the government give a lot of privileges to western residents that's why the
local population is nearly 18% of the total population.

Dubai has a lot of problems with its social system, but these sex/rape stories
are definitely not the major ones, and its totally uncommon to read such
stories.

~~~
pyre
I'd say the biggest problem is the treatment of foreign workers. Maybe foreign
workers from "the west" get good treatment, but the ones bussed in from Asia,
for example, aren't treated so well.

~~~
level09
I agree, that's one good example of social inequality. though, to be fair, I
think the rulers are trying to improve the laws and the culture, for a third-
world country UAE can never be compared to any of its neighbours where women
can't even drive.

~~~
pyre
> I think the rulers are trying to improve the laws and the culture

How? As I understand it the _actual_ UAE citizens are getting 'fat' off of the
oil money, so all of the menial labour work goes to poor foreigners that are
bussed in from SE Asia. It's going to be difficult to change a culture of
people that are used to poor Asians doing all of the 'crap jobs' for them
while they just bask in money (so to speak).

------
dodyg
1\. Keep your job with the Australian start up. 2\. Fly to Malaysia. You don't
need visa to enter the country. 3\. Once you are in region in a safe place,
you can figure out the next step. You will be in the most growing economic
zone in the world. Don't go to Europe. Everybody's trying to get to Europe
right now.

------
w_t_payne
Find a lawyer in Germany, and get advice from them before you go.

My knowledge is both limited, 12+ years outdated, and restricted to the UK,
but here is my tuppence-worth anyway:

1\. It is both a legal and a bureaucratic process. 2\. Apply for asylum at the
first possible opportunity. At the border crossing-point or airport, if
possible. 3\. Don't lie. 4\. Be prepared with documentary evidence to back up
any statements that you are going to make. 5\. If possible, have documentary
evidence that you are facing persecution, or that your life is in danger.
(Sounds silly in the current situation, I know, but anyway...) 6\. Make sure
that a friendly party (or your lawyer) has a copy of these documents.

It might be easier, if the danger looks like it is going to be temporary, to
reach out and try to get somebody to "host" you, and go on a visitor's visa.

~~~
angerman
I second what w_t_payne said. The following are just some ideas, please keep
in mind that I'm no lawyer! This is no legal advice at all!

If you do have relatives in Germany, that might be a route to explore. I heard
something in the news, that this may be an option.

For working though, that's going to be a tough one. Reading the Wikipedia
article
([http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeitserlaubnis](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeitserlaubnis))
right, it states that: "Asylbewerber dürfen für die ersten 12 Monate überhaupt
nicht arbeiten (§ 61 Abs. 2 AsylVfG), anschließend gilt ein nachrangiger
Arbeitsmarktzugang nach der BeschVerfV (siehe oben)." Which translates to:
people seeking asylum must not take up any employment for the first 12 month.

As well as "Asylberechtigte, Konventionsflüchtlinge (§ 25 Abs. 1 und 2
AufenthG) sowie Ausländer mit einer Niederlassungserlaubnis (§ 9 Abs. 1
AufenthG) haben nach dem Aufenthaltsgesetz ein Recht auf Erwerbstätigkeit.",
which transaltes to: people granted asylum (and some others) holding a
residence permit, are allowed to work.

That's both ends of the spectrum, so there may be some middle ground after 12
month. I'm not lawyer though!

Finally, I think, maybe the folks from PRO Asyl may be the right ones to ask.
See: [http://www.proasyl.de/en/contact/](http://www.proasyl.de/en/contact/)

PS: regarding hosting, from my exprience it's a somewhat lengthy progress,
depending on the regonal administration. Your host will have to provide
financial standing for your stay (requirements differ for the duration of your
stay), with that he or she has to send that document certifying the financial
standing as well as a signed invitation to you (the original), with which you
have to go to the german emabassy in your country and apply for a temporary
visa.

------
OoTheNigerian
Sorry about your situation.

Are you Syrian? It may be easier to get to a country that does not require you
having a visa then you decide on what to do later. As a dev, you can work
remotely and earn money.

Check this out
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Syrian_ci...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Syrian_citizens).

Best of luck man.

~~~
ra
That's great information. I'd get out of there now; Equador doesn't require a
visa and looks like a great place to go and work out what to do next.

------
femto
Be careful if you are tempted by Australia, in light of your employer.
Refugees are a huge political issue in the current federal election and the
two major parties are competing to see who can be the most inhumane. The
Australia government is ignoring the UN refugee convention, with refugees
without a visa being forcibly, and permanently, exported to Manus Island. The
catch 22 is that the Australian government won't hand out a visa if there is
any inkling that a person might be a refugee, so the phrase "without a visa"
can be replaced with "all". Be cautious of researching refugee issues under
your own identity, if you intend to apply for an Australian visa.

If you can get an Australia work visa and make it onto Australian soil, you
might be able to circumvent the "no visa" rule. In this case, be wary of the
possibility of detention, possibly indefinite, inside Australia. Australian
officials will also do their best to keep a new arrival ignorant of their
rights, allowing them to be deported, so find out exactly what your rights are
and what the procedure and legally correct wording is to claim asylum and
activate the UN process.

If considering Australia, perhaps get some advice from an expert, such as Sr
Pat Sealey [1]? (Presumably she can be contacted though her order's South
Australian address [2].)

[1] [http://www.catholicreligiousaustralia.org/index.php/news-
a-v...](http://www.catholicreligiousaustralia.org/index.php/news-a-views/news-
and-views/1118-tireless-refugee-advocate-recognised)

[2] [http://www.sosj.org.au/contact/2col-
index.cfm?loadref=6](http://www.sosj.org.au/contact/2col-index.cfm?loadref=6)

\---

Edit: I'll add that it is not clear to me whether the automatic deportation
only applies to refugees who arrive by boat, or to any refugee that arrives
without a visa.

Further edit: My comment about indefinite detention in Australia applies if
you arrive on a work visa then claim asylum, not if you are actually working
and have not claimed asylum.

------
GoldfishCRM
I am not an expert so don´t take my word for it. But I heard that a general
role has always been that you have to get to the country you which to have
asylum in in order to apply. European union is discussion a banded that rule
for Syria but I dont know the status of that decision. An other rule is that
you have to apply for asylum in the first country you get into.

However... Sweden also spend lots of money on a virtual embassy in second
life. Read more about it here:
[http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Lifestyle/Reading/Second-
Life/](http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Lifestyle/Reading/Second-Life/)

Maybe you can do a think of virtually applying for visa in sweden and write a
pressrelease and push it on mynewsdesk.com. Startup community is also big in
Sweden and we need skilled developers (Im swedish).

Carl Bildt,Foreign Minister of Sweden since 2006
([https://twitter.com/carlbildt](https://twitter.com/carlbildt)) is very
active on twitter and in my guess most likely to respond to a virtual request
for visa by twitter and second life. This is a long shot but something you can
try by your computer.

When you get visa in any EU country it is easy to move to germany and travel
over boarders within EU.

------
pixelkritzel
Hi. To get asylum in Germany is difficult.

First of all, make sure that you take a direct flight to Germany. If you enter
any other European Country before, you have to get asylum there.

Second and maybe more important. If you try to get an asylum in Germany, you
are not allowed to work for the first year. It's crazy and doesn't make any
sense.

If you still want to get here. And it's a great city. Here is the Email
address of the refugee help in Berlin: buero@fluechtlingsrat-berlin.de

------
micheljansen
You use the word asylum, which has a very specific meaning, but if you can
find a skilled job, you might be able to migrate to another country through
more conventional and less bureaucratic means. IANAL, but those are my 2
cents.

------
mschuster91
Forget Germany as an asylum target. Our politicians have massively restricted
asylum acceptance and even for those who do get accepted it's a hell of a
fight and even more paperwork.

Also, you have the problem that you likely won't even be able to enter the
European Union, except if you smuggle yourself via the Turkish-Greek border -
but then again, the Germans simply fly you to Greece because this is the place
where you entered the European Union technically.

~~~
agiamas
Sorry for your situation and I hope you stay safe!

If you smuggle yourself via the Turkish-Greek border then you are stuck in the
wonderful country of Greece forever basically. High unemployment, laws that
are really unfriendly to asylum seekers (less than 2% acceptance rate) and the
nazist party (facepalm..) has risen from obscurity to 5% in the latest
elections, to 15% in the polls... So less than ideal environment for a
programmer :)

Too many people have gone that route and now are stuck here because of that
Dublin 2 convention that will return asylum seekers to the country that they
entered the EU in the first place... So do whatever you can to avoid Greece as
an entry country to EU. Try Sweden, you would love it except for the weather
:)

------
sveme
There are some schemes in place that make it easier for non-EU nationals to
get a work permit in Germany, it would require you to find an employer that
pays a wage above a certain threshold (I believe it's called Blue Card).

A really helpful english-speaking source for any expat information on Germany
is the [http://toytowngermany.com/forum](http://toytowngermany.com/forum)
forum, especially the lengthy thread on visas and work permits:
[http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4675...](http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46755)

Here's the thread for the Blue Card scheme:
[http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2673...](http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=267365)

Hope that helps a tiny bit and good luck!

Edit: Another link to official information on the Blue card:
[http://www.bluecard-eu.de/eu-blue-card-germany/](http://www.bluecard-
eu.de/eu-blue-card-germany/)

~~~
guido4000
The threshold for a blue card work permit as a developer has been lowered to
36.192 Euro a few months ago. You just need to get a proper work contract to
be eligible for the visa.

------
anovikov
Becoming a refugee is a bad idea. Get a schengen visa, go to a country like
Latvia, show them your references, bank statement with decent documented
income, open a company (costs 1000-2000 EUR), and get a residence visa. Takes
a few months but you can live most of that time on a 90/180 schengen visa,
maybe leaving out 1 or max 2 months which you can spend at home or in a non-
schengen European country like Cyprus, which is also close to you that helps.
Then get your residence visa and go to Germany - that will not be entirely
legal (you'll be supposed not to spend outside of a country where you visa is
more than half of your time), but with no borders within Schengen, it is hard
to check, and if you don't want to get officially hired for a fulltime job in
Berlin (which is hardly your intention), you'll have no problem.

You can do that right in Germany, but may take more cash and time, you will
always be able to switch a country once your startup gets going and you are
more relaxed cash-wise.

And yes, being a refugee sucks. Forget it.

~~~
anovikov
Caveat: i have no first-hand experience of getting a residence visa in
Germany. It might turn out simpler than i fear, with other posters hinting
that. I did that in Cyprus and Czech Republic though.

------
yk
I would also advise against Germany, one of the problems is that people who
seek asylum in Germany are not allowed to work. ( I know nothing about other
countries, but if you work for an Australian company, it would perhaps best to
ask them for help.)

Good luck and stay safe.

~~~
sspiff
I would follow yk's advice: it is much easier to get a Visum when you are
invited to work for a company. Is asking the startup for employment an option?

------
wheels
There's a lot of bad information here on Berlin. For context, I'm a non-EU
software developer that lives in Berlin and now has permanent residence, as is
my girlfriend.

Germany is actually one of the easiest countries to get an immigrant work visa
for. I would recommend skipping seeking asylum. There's a large enough job
market in Berlin for developers that the work visa route will almost certainly
be the fastest and least painful for you.

If you have a university degree, you should be able to get a Blue Card. In
fact, Germany will give you a 6 month visa to visit the country and look for a
job. Since you're already working remotely, finding money to support yourself
during that time should not be difficult.

The salary requirement that others list here is incorrect for software
developers. The typical Blue Card minimum required salary is €46,400/year,
however, software development is an in-demand job ("Mangelberuf"), which
lowers the minimum to €39,192/year, which is above the standard salary that
you'd find for development positions at Berlin startups.

If you go the Blue Card route, you'll be eligible for permanent residence in 3
years.

If you don't have a university degree, you're still in pretty good shape.
Then, in practice, what you need is a job offer (with a contract). Your
residence permit, prior to getting permanent residence, will be connected to
your specific job at a specific company (though in practice this just means
you have to go to the foreigner's office to apply for a new visa when you
change jobs). This was the old system that I went through (before the Blue
Card was introduced, which my girlfriend used). Basically if you have a job
offer and a reasonable salary, you're next to guaranteed to be able to get a
work permit. I've never heard of a software developer having their request
denied.

However, that system is not nearly as streamlined, so you actually usually
need to already be in Berlin to apply for it. I would recommend finding any
excuse you can to come to Berlin on a visitors' visa (language course,
conference, whatever) and stay as long as you can. I think you'd be able to
find a job and kick off the work permit stuff in a 2 month timeframe.

Going that route you're able to apply for permanent residence after 5 years,
though it's a slightly nicer version of permanent residence than the one you
get via the Blue Card route since it's transferable to all EU countries except
the UK and Ireland.

Official things in Germany will naturally be mostly in German, but the startup
scene functions primarily in English. It's totally normal for job interviews
and work meetings / emails / etc. to be in English.

If you have questions on this stuff feel free to drop me a line. My email
address is in my profile.

~~~
level09
its not as easy as you picture it, especially for Syrians.

I wanted to send my sister (Syrian) to continue her education in medicine, the
German embassy in Syria completely rejected the application.

I tried in Dubai, they asked me to open a bank account for her in Germany, all
banks refused to do so. I had eventually to find workarounds (through some
powerful friends) and I was able finally to open that account in Wiesbaden.

Now my sister has an official residency visa and she went to open an account
in Berlin, but again all banks rejected her request because she is Syrian.

Racism can be really ugly.

~~~
peterjancelis
There are a ton of embargoes and sanctions against Syria from both the US and
the EU.

Don't assume racism when the problem is government.

~~~
level09
That's true in the case of USA, ex: you can never get a credit card processor
to accept your application, source forge/google code/ google apps are entirely
blocked etc ..

We tried to make a change by starting this :

[http://www.change.org/petitions/united-states-government-
lif...](http://www.change.org/petitions/united-states-government-lift-some-of-
the-sanctions-on-syria-that-are-affecting-the-people)

in the case of Germany I think Government are not the bad people here, they
have actually tried to make it easier for Syrian. but most the people who work
at embassies / banks etc .. make it impossible for Syrians abroad to reach
Germany.

I have friends who managed to get their visas after filing lawsuits against
those embassies, but those who only have german friends/relatives who
understand and know the German law.

~~~
peterjancelis
[http://www.sanctionswiki.org/Syria#EU](http://www.sanctionswiki.org/Syria#EU)

That's a big legal minefield to deal with just to sign up some small accounts
from individuals.

------
twelvechairs
I think you are likely to have greater luck on a working visa than as an
'asylum' seeker (which European governments consider themselves flooded by,
and you'll have to prove specific persecution in your home country rather than
skills in your job). What you need is the right visa which your skills can
qualify you for and will lead to permanent residency or citizenship. This will
vary by country. A difficulty with Germany may be that a lot of the process
will be hard to understand if you can't read German.

Good luck to you. I (white Australian) visited Syria a few years ago. Every
piece of news I hear now from Syria just saddens me.

------
aforarnold
I am not sure what would be the "best" next step, but I want to leave Syria
asap. Planning to move to Iraq first then I will go for the next destination.
As far as discussed seems I dont need asylum because I do have some skill set
that can be fit into a job market. But will I be able to live there for couple
of years? This is getting crazy here and I dont know how long I will have the
internet connection and other to work in my remote job(though my employer is
very helpful). Seems next couple of days will make my way for at least next
couple of years of my life.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
I would advise against the asylum route for all the reasons that others have
already mentioned.

What you could do right now is to travel to Turkey and apply for a German
tourist visa there. Once you are in Germany and out of harm's way you can
think about your next steps.

This page says that the German embassy in Ankara or the Istanbul consulate
will process your visa application while the Damascus office remains closed:
[http://www.ankara.diplo.de/Vertretung/ankara/de/06__Visa/Vis...](http://www.ankara.diplo.de/Vertretung/ankara/de/06__Visa/Visum__Irak/Visum__SYR__S.html)

Here are the tourist visa guidelines in arabic:
[http://www.beirut.diplo.de/contentblob/3951508/Daten/3401582...](http://www.beirut.diplo.de/contentblob/3951508/Daten/3401582/merkblatt_besuchsreise.pdf)

I wish you the best of luck!

------
nakkiel
I don't know if I'm late on this or not. Anyway, you may want to go to
Thailand for some time. Live on tourist Visa, renew them in neighbouring
countries while enjoying time off. You could easily spend about a year without
running into any Visa problem and work remotely for the Australian company.
There are a couple of startups there
([http://playbasis.com](http://playbasis.com) for example) and many startup
guys spend a sizeable amount of time working from there while enjoying life. I
suppose it would give you time to prepare for your next move. I can help with
anything Thailand-related if you need (though I'm back in Europe now). As I
see things, Europe is not the immigration heaven it used to be although
there's room for skilled workers due recent policies in most countries. Either
way, it won't be simple.

~~~
aforarnold
Thanks.

~~~
nakkiel
Hey. Good news:

[http://tribune.com.pk/story/599235/sweden-grants-blanket-
asy...](http://tribune.com.pk/story/599235/sweden-grants-blanket-asylum-to-
syrian-refugees/)

------
laserbrain
As an asylum-seeker you are not allowed to work in Germany. You will be
“stored” in a camp and are forced to stay there until you can move back to
Syria. Better go to a Scandinavian country, where you will be treated as a
human beeing.

~~~
jsilence
As a german I am ashamed to read this, because I have to agree. Embarrassing.

~~~
slowmotiony
I used to live next to a shelter like that, and the thing is a total shithole.
Walls destroyed, stinks like hell, major crime around the shelter. A week
before I left a 11 year old girl was gang-raped by the asylees. I do not blame
germans who decide it's best for them to just send the asylum seekers back to
their own countries.

~~~
jsilence
I disagree.

The main principle of humanitarian help is very valuable. We shall not abandon
our core values, just because some people go ahead and cheat on us. Yes, some
do. I know that and I don't like that either.

But.

In general every person on the planet should be able to live peacefully and in
dignity and if leaders in other countries do not build a system that is
capable of providing this for all inhabitants, we should give them asylum and
protect them from harassment.

Regarding those who are leaving their country and seeking asylum only for
economical reasons, trying to escape poverty and a bleak future prospect, we
shall not forget that a lot of our wealth is build on exploiting other
countries. Our wealth is built on a system, that lets money and goods flow
while disallowing the same freedom for people.

No, there is no excuse for rape and there never can be.

But before we judge these people we should always reconsider: Why are they
here? What is their situation in the country where they come from? What kind
of chance do they have in their country? What kind of chance do they have
here? Do we give them a chance to behave and act well?

I refuse to follow the growing mob that does not reflect on the global
situation, that does not differentiate and treats every foreigner the same,
that suspects that every refugee is a criminal, dirty and trying to rape our
children.

------
grobmeier
Germany is difficult, but not impossible. As an alternative you could try not
to get asylum, but a blue card (EU). Unfortunately you'll need a university
degree + yearly incoming in 2013 of 46.400 OR uni degree + special demand in
germany (IT is such an area) + yearly income of 36.192.

The good thing is, according to my research the income requirement is
floating. In other terms, you just need an income which is "usual for your
region".

Of course, you would need a visa too.

What I am trying to suggest is you search an potential employer first and ask
him to deal with the visa/eu card details. That way you wouldn't get the
german citizenship in first glance; not sure if you really aim at that or if
you would like to return after the war.

Anyway you can reach citizenship after living 8 years in germany (please note
there are some restrictions, like no criminal acts, accepting liberal and
democratic orders and so on).

I believe with your skills you might have a good chance to find a position in
the Berlin or even Munich scene. Just prepare a CV and try to contact as many
startups as you can. Look out for guides like this:
[http://www.berlinstartup.de/startup-
guide.php](http://www.berlinstartup.de/startup-guide.php)
[http://berlinstartupjobs.com/](http://berlinstartupjobs.com/)

Good luck and take care mate.

Links:
[http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_566780/Dienststellen/besonde...](http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_566780/Dienststellen/besondere-
Dst/ZAV/arbeiten-in-deutschland/DE/amz/merkblaetter/amz-arbeitsmarktzulassung-
info-an-ag.html)

[http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_616850/Navigation/Dienststel...](http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_616850/Navigation/Dienststellen/besondere-
Dst/ZAV/arbeiten-in-deutschland/DE/amz/migration-check/migration-check-
nav.html)

(german, despite they aim for migrants. Send them to potential employers).

~~~
aforarnold
One of the reason for choosing Germany as some of my friends are living there,
though I dont know will it help or not. And after the discussion seems its
better not to get asylum.

~~~
fab1an
I've reached out the guy who runs berlinstartupjobs.com and asked him to ping
his database of employers. Do check it out as well. All the best.

------
illumen
German immigration lawyers who specialise in software developers. I can
recommend them. [http://www.vpmk.de/](http://www.vpmk.de/)

Berlin is very welcoming to qualified software devs. Best of luck!

~~~
realrocker
Is it really? Would love to work in Berlin for a while.

------
jk4930
Hey Arnold, there are several ways and I don't know--given the current
situation that you're not the only one--which works best. So let me give you a
series of suggestions to follow up:

First, see the German Foreign Office's FAQ and visa regulations:

[http://www.auswaertiges-
amt.de/EN/Infoservice/FAQ/Uebersicht...](http://www.auswaertiges-
amt.de/EN/Infoservice/FAQ/Uebersicht_node.html)

[http://www.auswaertiges-
amt.de/EN/EinreiseUndAufenthalt/Visa...](http://www.auswaertiges-
amt.de/EN/EinreiseUndAufenthalt/Visabestimmungen_node.html)

Since many are coming as refugees from Syria, it could be an idea to apply for
a regular visa, either for working or studying in Germany. Note that the
German mission in Damascus is closed and you have to contact any embassy or
mission outside Syria. They suggest using the embassy in Beirut. Problem is
that you need to translate all paper stuff to German and I can't estimate the
time it takes. Usually it's 2-10 days for visits under 90 days, it can take
longer (even months) for visits over 90 days or working permits.

If you come for work, you need an invitation from an employer. But I don't
know how long the handling takes with the mission (they have to okay it
first), especially since the Damascus mission is down.

Perhaps you qualify for the EU Blue Card (skilled immigrants):

[http://www.auswaertiges-
amt.de/EN/Infoservice/FAQ/ArbeitenLe...](http://www.auswaertiges-
amt.de/EN/Infoservice/FAQ/ArbeitenLebenDeutschland/01-aaBlue%20Card%20english.html?nn=479790)

[http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/](http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/)

If that's an option, look into the conditions for studying in Germany.

Wish you all the best. Tough times.

------
Lrigikithumer
I don't really have anything to offer but I do want to wish you good luck, I
hope you get out safely.

~~~
linuxlizard
Same here. Best of luck to you.

------
razzaj
An intermediate option might be moving to Lebanon temporarily. It is still
relatively (to syria) safe. As a Syrian, you dont need visa or residency
permit. You can continue your work from here and figure out your next move;
namely apply for immigration visas here-and-there.

------
random2435
I work at a berlin startup that is interested in the skillset that you posted.
Send me a mail to irit.applebaum {at} gmail.com and ill try to help you.

------
ivanhoe
Don't waste any time, get out of the country asap on regular touristic visa.
Usually it means you can stay "on a vacation" for up to 30 days at once and 3
months in total (you just cross the border and return), which should be enough
to see what's going on with Syria. Legally you can't work, but if you already
have an online job no one will stop you to continue working. If the war starts
you can then obtain the refugee status in that country on the basis that you
can't return to your homeland. The refugee status doesn't mean that you have
to stay in that country, as an educated refugee you can apply for a work visa
in other countries through their embassies.

------
hrvbr
If one EU state offers you asylum, which shouldn't be too hard because your
country is notoriously dangerous, then you can work anywhere in the EU. So you
could get asylum from Italy or France, then move to Berlin when you have your
papers, which takes several months during which you can't have a declared job
(in France, they may make sure you don't work by sending you to a transit
camp, which is basically a jail).

If you tell them you're an experimented software engineer, it may be much
faster to get a work visa than asylum. Ask for this work visa to each embassy
in Damascus.

Also, Morrocoan cities are growing like crazy. There may be some business to
do there and they may give visas more easily.

------
probably_wrong
Well, everyone else has given an idea about why you shouldn't go to Berlin.

In case you have a powerful reason for still going there, a few quick points:
English is not _that_ common, but is far more common than in the neighboring
cities - you probably won't be super comfortable, but you'll survive. If you
are on a budget and/or planning to live on whatever money you already have,
Berlin is much cheaper than any of the other countries mentioned. There's also
a very large Turkish community, in case that means something for you.

Keep in mind all the negative comments mentioned, though. This points are
valid when you are a regular citizen, but as a refugee they might not apply.

------
bayesianhorse
I'm not an expert. But if you are seeking asylum, you will not be allowed to
work for about a year. The biggest problem with Asylum in Germany is probably
how to enter Germany before any of the other countries between Germany and
Syria...

You might try a "blue card", if you can get a good salary. But I am not sure
how easy that is from Syria at the moment...

Also keep in mind that islamophobia in Germany is rising across the board. And
no, my fellow Germans generally make no distinction between copts, syrian
christians or muslims.

------
ballard
I would take any option because safety trumps analysis paralysis. It may also
possible to build up to working remotely for US-based startups, 37signals or
github style. And if you happen to later find a place with low expenses and
good healthcare, that would be even better.

    
    
      - Canada (Vancouver especially)
      - Denmark
      - Finland
      - France
      - Germany 
      - Netherlands
      - Sweden
    

The US is out for USG failure and lack of universal healthcare.

------
ekurutepe
I'm in Berlin startup scene and I can tell you that is quite easy to get a
working permit as a software dev, basically only thing you need besides your
passport is an employment contract with more than 33k€ per year. (search term:
blue card)

Don't go the asylum way if you have the software skills. Blue card is much
easier and a safe bet.

The processing can take up to 6-8 weeks though…

And as for language, at least in Berlin tech companies, english is the
language of business…

------
znt
It would be easier to escape to Turkey first. Later on you can try your
chances with European countries via their embassies in Ankara or Istanbul.

------
benjlang
You're welcome to come to Israel, we have a booming startup scene here.

~~~
United857
Might be a bit hard as a Syrian citizen...

------
parasight
German here. I think asylum isn't what you want. If the company in Australia
that you worked for can not help you get in touch with companies in Germany.
Tell them what you can do for them and about your situation. A lot companies
are used to employ IT professionals from all over the world and know how to do
get you here.

------
swissnamir
i feel your pain. its unfortunate to be Syria now, i heard recently Sweden is
approving asylum applications in the EU on a smaller scale. call the embassy
to double check.

anyhow forward me your CV and email and let's connect, tech-wise we are
recruiting node.js - backend dev if this could help. here's my contact:
swissnamir@gmail.com

------
olalonde
You might find this Wikipedia article helpful in case you change your mind
about Germany:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Syrian_ci...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Syrian_citizens)

------
michalu
Hi I will update this post, but I think you have several options. Try to get
to any country you can that is in Schengen, once you are in you can carry on
your freelance work, apply for working visa and go to Berlin for interviews.
If you find a company to work for they will help you out, almost every country
is in demand for devs.

I theory, I believe you may just come to Europe and if you state at the border
that you seek an asylum they can't refuse you ( according to international
laws, until your asylum is decided on ) and then take it from there.

Turkey is the closest country you don't need a visa for.

I will make an update but in any case don't double-check everything yourself,
those are few things I vaguely remember from school.

------
pornCode
Manwin Montreal (pornhub,brazzers, basically all the relevant porn sites) is
always looking for people. From what I can tell we ship in a lot of guys from
other countries. The HR team seems to be on top of that.

try it out, we might be able to bring you in.

manwin.com/careers

select the montreal office :)

Good luck.

------
CReber
If you want to get a job in Berlin quickly, post it here:

[https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268](https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268)

Berlin is one of the most peaceful cities I ever lived in.

------
michuk
We're looking for a Python hacker in a personalization & analytics startup
Filmaster.TV. We're based in Warsaw, Poland. It shouldn't be a problem getting
a work permit. We're already hiring an American guy and we've been through the
procedure. Read about the job and the company here:
[http://filmaster.tv/jobs.html](http://filmaster.tv/jobs.html) and if you're
interested, happy to talk on hangout.

------
gregorycarter
This is one of the best uses of Ask HN I've seen in a long time.

Best of luck.

------
DocG
I think if western countries are too hard for you you should try some eastern
Europe ones. They have few if any request for asylum. Also visas and permits
might be easier to get. You might do it faster, as there are no lines, and
after move on to your wanted country. Once you are in EU, borders are pretty
much open. although do your research before, I sadly cant give more advice at
the moment

------
hedwall
Just as a heads up, Sweden have decided to give anyoneleaving Syria permanent
residence because of whats happening.

The info is in Swedish but maybe you want to Google Translate it or something.

[http://www.svt.se/nyheter/sverige/alla-syrier-far-
permanent-...](http://www.svt.se/nyheter/sverige/alla-syrier-far-permanent-
uppehallstillstand)

------
smutticus
1) Get a job in the EU. 2) Have your employer work through all the necessary
hassles for you to move there from their end. It will be much easier than you
trying to do this in Syria and most European employers will have experience
with this.

I don't know about Germany but I know in Amsterdam booking.com is always
looking for smart folks.

------
aberlincompany
We're a Berlin-based tech company that has successfully hired programmers from
the Middle East, so we have some experiences with the Blue Card visa process
and helping with to relocate to Berlin. The good news is, we're still actively
recruiting so please get in touch if we can help you: aberlincompany@gmail.com

------
rado
Get EU citizenship from the nearest EU member Bulgaria. Lots of Syrian
refugees get EU IDs here. Good luck.

------
marvin
I am no expert on asylum situations, but my impression is that the first
country in the European zone that you enter is the one that decides which
asylum rules you'll follow. You need to speak to a lawyer. Sorry I can't
provide any more insight than this. Good luck.

------
VargardObyron
1) Get on a plane to UK 2) cut your passport into very small parts and get rid
of just after landing 3) ???? (don't tell where are you from) 4) Profit after
3-4 months waiting for asylum.

At least that was standard tactics from people from arabic countries. Never
say where are you from!

~~~
w_t_payne
IMHO, it is easier to follow the rules. If you have a genuine need for asylum,
then the UK is obliged, under international law, to offer it.

What the UK is not obliged to do is put up with people who try to pull a fast
one; and there are a lot of those around, moresthepity.

If you present yourself honestly to the UKBA officials, with a genuine need
for asylum, with relevant documentation, telling the truth, and not trying to
be dodgy in any way, they will (in all probability) grant you the right to
remain in the UK for a limited time.

Work with them, not against them, and they will work with you. If you have a
genuine case, they are there to help you.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people that they see are (very bad) liars,
so a lot of asylum-seekers get rejected, on the basis that nothing that they
say can be trusted. Of course, they have the right to appeal that judgement,
but if you lie, you will get caught out, and the appeal will be rejected.

~~~
VargardObyron
or they will put you in temporary house and send back to syria just so you can
be presented to officials.

------
troels
Might be worth contacting these guys for advice:
[http://www.deutschsyrischegesellschaft.de/](http://www.deutschsyrischegesellschaft.de/)
(I just googled my way to this, so I don't know how helpful they are)

------
ig1
Your best solution might be to move to whatever country will be most likely to
accept your asylum request (and preferably will let you continue to remotely
work) and then apply for a work visa to a country with more of a tech scene.

------
Create
[http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/refugee-
influx-r...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/refugee-influx-
reveals-german-asylum-policy-shortcomings-a-919488.html)

------
jfrm
Have you tried the UN Refugee Agency? [http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-
bin/texis/vtx/home](http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home)

~~~
aforarnold
Not yet, thanks for the link.

------
progx
Asylum and Work are 2 different things and in germany they accept only one.
1\. Asylum and you cant work. 2\. Work, but for that you need many many papers
and time.

------
razzaj
Came across this today.
[http://m.thelocal.se/50030/20130903/](http://m.thelocal.se/50030/20130903/)

------
dotmariusz
I have posted link to this thread in Polish Startup Scene group, maybe we can
help. Getting a work permit in Poland is not hard and Germany is close by.

------
arthalbuwa
Good luck mate hope things will work out fine for you.

------
krisgee
Might be a silly question for some reason but why don't you try and get your
Australian company to sponsor you for immigration to Australia?

------
Sagat
I really hope this isn't a scam. I would recommend heading to Northern
European countries, specifically the Netherlands and Sweden.

------
NicoJuicy
I'm no expert. But your chances in Brittain are a lot higher i presume (no
passport even required).

But you should check up on that first though :)

~~~
moondowner
It depends from where you come from. For Syrian citizens visa is required for
Brattain. In fact, for all European countries it is required.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Syrian_c...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Syrian_citizens)

------
hedwall
Sweden just decided to grant permanent asylum to anyone who decides to leave
Syria. I thought that could be interesting.

------
chrisreichel
You should try Ireland. There's a plenty of IT jobs and it's easier to come in
than the rest of Europe.

~~~
RomanPushkin
Not easy for non-EU citizens, unemployment rate is very high. To be able to
move there you have to find a job with 60K salary.

------
mathattack
Independent of all the visa advice, keep yourself safe!

------
restlessmedia
Try and stay away from England, they'll tax you right down to the amount of
hairs you have on your nuts.

------
don_draper
I'd be curious what a fellow hacker on the other side of the world thinks
about the current situation.

------
antocv
Skip Germany and go to Sweden or England, where people are more than happy to
speak English, and there is already many Syrians in Sweden, especially in
Sodertalje. Sweden will accept you based on your skills far more easily than
Germany, all you need is to find a job, and right now the market is open for a
guy of your skills - programmers are in high demand. Look around on various
Sweden/Stockholm job posting sites, from there you get the visa and safety.
The startup scene is also nice.

As someone else mentioned in Germany as asylum seeker you arent allowed to
work. You can come to Sweden and seek asylum and you'd be allowed to work, and
when you do sign a contract then you can get a permit to stay and cancel the
asylum request. PM me and Ill give you names of good companies that are on the
lookout to hire.

As others said, to be able to apply for asylum in EU country X, you have to
first set foot in that country X and not in another one, so, go to Turkey or
Israel and then fly to Sweden from there.

Sweden is also more flexible, its a country where they look out for the best
interest of you as a human (mostly), so if you come to Sweden and continue
working for Australian company - it is enough to get a work permit, all you
have to do is prove that you earn more than minimum amount, I believe around
1500usd and pay taxes, to be accepted.

As a war refugee my self, I urge you strongly to leave Syria now, for the love
of god no matter the price, buy those tickets and get the hell out of there
and far away as possible, Sweden, Canada, Australia. (Not Germany, France,
Italy, USA, Turkey they all suck.)

Your life is all you got, dont waste it on that war. Take with your closest
family if you can.

~~~
the-kenny
I approve this too. Don't go to Germany.

As a German citizen I really hate to say this, but recently there has been a
hitch in the media where there were protests by neonazi groups in front of
asylum homes. Sadly, there are still people who see asylum seekers as
potential job-stealers, showing them nothing but hate and would like to throw
them all out, regardless of their skills.

This is _absolutely_ not the general opinion in Germany, but at least _some_
people think so.

~~~
Blahah
The same is true of England. We have the EDL who are a bunch of racist morons.
But they are a tiny, despised minority, and certainly shouldn't deter anyone
from seeking asylum here.

~~~
jb17
It's not quite the same. Apart from the fact that the EDL are not neonazis,
over 100 asylum seekers were killed by racists in the last 20 years in
Germany. Some of the bigger events were racist riots in Rostock [1] and
Hoyerswerda [2], and arson attacks on asylum seeker homes in Solingen [3] and
Lubeck.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_of_Rostock-
Lichtenhagen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_of_Rostock-Lichtenhagen)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_of_Hoyerswerda](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_of_Hoyerswerda)

[3]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solingen_arson_attack_of_1993](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solingen_arson_attack_of_1993)

~~~
Tichy
Do you have a citation for the 100 deaths? The number seems rather high - from
the three events you cite there were "only" five deaths (killed in a fire).

~~~
jb17
The "Amadeu Antonio Stiftung" has a list [1] of 183 deaths after 1990, where
they describe the circumstances of each death. There is also a German
wikipedia article that discusses different statistics [2].

Sorry, both sources are in German. Maybe Google translate will help a little?

[1] [http://www.mut-gegen-rechte-gewalt.de/news/chronik-der-
gewal...](http://www.mut-gegen-rechte-gewalt.de/news/chronik-der-
gewalt/todesopfer-rechtsextremer-und-rassistischer-gewalt-seit-1990/)

[2]
[http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todesopfer_rechtsextremer_Gewal...](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todesopfer_rechtsextremer_Gewalt_in_Deutschland)

~~~
Tichy
Thanks!

I'd say that Germany is still pretty safe, but I admit that there are places
that even I as a German feel uneasy about - mostly the rural areas in former
East German states.

Also the way asylum seekers are treated here seems pretty bad. But that refers
to the way the government handles the issue, not to the attitude of the
general population.

------
amerika_blog
Fight for your homeland, don't just run away and pass off your problems to
others.

Also encourage Americans to stop their drone-crazed, war-hungry, spy-happy,
immigration-positive President (or at least to change his mind).

War should be used when there are serious threats. Lately, the USA and Europe
have been using war to overthrow the powerful so that mass culture can take
over.

This is culturally akin to forcibly installing a McDonald's on every street
corner.

~~~
Morphling
It's easy to say that from the comfort of your home it's quite different when
you might face dying in a crossfire or in another drone attack.

~~~
amerika_blog
I'm facing the collapse of my homeland and intervening. Are you in denial, or
part of the solution?

