
Afrostream (YC S15) Is Netflix for African and African-American Movies - panagios
http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/17/afrostream-is-netflix-for-african-and-african-american-movies/
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yummyfajitas
I don't get how Netflix-of-$NICHE can be a long term business. It seems that
once $NICHE-stream demonstrates sufficient demand, Netflix can simply license
the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that
$NICHE-stream provides.

It's also unclear to me that Netflix is even lacking in this specific niche.
My ex-girlfriend loved browsing my netflix over a VPN because it had so much
of her african american comedy. (Admittedly, what she - an African woman -
considered a good selection might be different from what westerners consider a
good selection.)

In a _few_ cases, e.g. Parables ($NICHE=devout christians), I can see how they
offer something different - they deliberately _exclude_ content (e.g., movies
that offend christian sensibilities) that their members don't want. But that
doesn't seem to apply here.

~~~
lbostral
Hey, Thank you for the feedback :) I am Ludovic, Cofounder and CTO of
Afrostream.

Netflix is big, that's sure, but as said in the thread, Netflix is like the
big Three (ABC, NBC, CBS), and target the largest audience possible. And I am
an avid client of Netflix too. They have an offer of African-American
contents, even some African contents for sure. It's not complete. We have
curated for one year some of the best and unseen African or African-descendant
contents. Not only the Festival-sanctioned movies and series but also, the
contents which are popular in local markets and that we are bringing to our
customers. Seems to me that is more a segment than a niche, but I like to play
a little with the words :)

Our vision here is double : to propose a large selection of african, african-
american movies and tv series, first in France (I am French), and french
spoken countries, in Europe and Africa, first. Netflix is not yet in Africa,
so we have some technical challenges there, but we will be basically the
first.

To propose the new african and african american positive characters to all :
on that regards, our customers will not only be black

Do you know Drama Fever : the core of the Drama Fever is Asian contents, they
have 3,5 millions active users. 80% of these users are non-Asian.

That's one of our goal : to let know that there is a diversity in movies, and
that everybody could watch them with same pleasure

~~~
ggreer
Your analogy breaks down though, because the big three channels could only air
one show at a time. Netflix can license (or make) as many shows as they want
without hurting their popular appeal.

Basically, if you're successful, there's nothing stopping Netflix from
licensing the same shows as you. Since they're Netflix, they'll probably
negotiate better content deals, have better recommendations, better mobile
apps, more supported devices, etc.

Another danger is that Netflix has experience making their own shows. If your
target audience looks enticing enough, Netflix can produce exclusive content
to woo them over. They've already started doing this with anime (Knights of
Sidonia).

All-in-all, this seems like a really tricky business to be in. I wish you
luck.

~~~
lbostral
I understood your point of view. Netflix is better than us now, that's a fact.

I personally don't think Netflix could be exhaustive in every way because the
curation work is very important here, to satisfy every segment in the world.
Netflix is not in Africa though,

Drama fever, Crunchyroll, viki.com did well in their segment. And we intend to
be the best in ours.

~~~
DannoHung
I don't know about the others, but the thing that Crunchyroll does differently
than Netflix is that it's a lot more like the Steam of Anime. Prior to
Crunchyroll, it was _extremely_ common (still is, I think) for fans to simply
download fan-subbed versions of content and the license holders wouldn't see
any money until they were able to sign a deal with a distribution company that
would later sell a series on disc.

Crunchyroll provides the immediacy of fansubs but with legitimacy and sees
that license holders get paid something where they weren't getting paid
anything.

Additionally, the type of content that Crunchyroll provides isn't necessarily
something Netflix would go after, in that it is released on an episode by
episode basis (in line with air dates in Japan) rather than all at once (as is
the typical Netflix model) and that there is rarely dubbing (which most,
though notably not all, Netflix anime has).

That said, Netflix has been seriously expanding their anime efforts. I really
do wonder if Crunchyroll is going to be able to keep growing as Netflix
expands its presence more and more.

All that said, the one thing I'm really not sure of is how long Netflix can
continue to do more and more licensing deals and original content without
increasing its subscription cost. In that respect, I think the iTunes model is
a lot more stable (and I'm perfectly happy paying for close-to-airtime
delivery I get for the shows I do watch through it).

My only gripe with paying for that content is that the price premium seems to
be pretty high on iTunes given that the content has revocable DRM (then again,
Apple is more likely to be around in this space for a long time than any of
the other current players).

In summary: I think you _might_ be right, but it's definitely a pretty dynamic
situation. Hope it goes well!

------
yemi
I must point out that such a service exist, and it's one of the most
successful startups out of Africa. It's called Irokotv, and at best afrosteam
is a clone of this service. I was quite surprised the techcrunch article nor
anyone else didn't mention them, here's a 2013 article from techcrunch after
Irokotv closed $8 million in another round of funding-
[http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/17/the-scramble-for-africa-
con...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/17/the-scramble-for-africa-continues-
irokotv-closes-8m-to-be-the-netflix-of-africa/) Quite frankly, I am tired of
the tag, Netflix of "insert region where Netflix doesn't operate" I would like
to know if the founders of Afrostream will deny to being a clone of Irokotv

~~~
dopamean
You're surprised that TC isn't plugged in to whats going on in Africa?

~~~
scott_karana
TC wrote about this other product in 2013, and didn't bother looking at their
own past articles before writing this one.

~~~
danieltillett
Probably because nobody paid them.

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kposehn
So, there are certainly valid questions about whether one can build a
"Netflix-of-$NICHE", but I want to point to a lovely little example named
Crunchyroll.

You can definitely succeed in a niche, provided you have some factors in your
favor:

1\. An audience that is dedicated to the content you serve

2\. The ability to focus on the niche provides you a greater library than
broader competitors have

3\. The ability to market yourself in such a way that you build reputation
with the core audience

The end result is you can create a product that other people will pass up
competing offerings for that might have broader appeal - or will simply
subscribe to both.

Netflix used to be the go-to for Anime for a long period of time. However,
Crunchyroll was able to provide a much more massive library of anime on-demand
and catered to the dedicated fanbase.

~~~
serve_yay
I tried to watch an anime on there once. When I clicked play I got a preroll
ad, fine. 30 seconds in, the same ad played again. I hope that's not normal
because if it is I have no idea how people can stand it.

~~~
kposehn
Totally not normal, thankfully.

------
nickpsecurity
BET worked. CrunchyRoll worked. I think the service has a good chance of
making it if there's demand in this niche and they focus on delivering where
it's strongest. If they stream to U.S., too, we might also see some
interesting movies and culture we'd otherwise not be exposed to. Regarding
Netflix, they might compete but I doubt it given what the co-founder has said.
More likely, a company like Netflix would acquire them to inherit and exploit
the market they created. That's just my guess.

Good luck, Ludovic.

~~~
lbostral
Thank you for your great feedback,

Seems Netflix is a big concern for a lot of people here. Since I am a
subscriber to Netflix too, I think my first action is to unsubscribe soon to
help us. Just kidding.

Netflix has some flaws too. And we intend to exploit them :) , let the fight
begin

~~~
nickpsecurity
Haha. Stay a subscriber to Netflix so you can spot the strengths to copy and
problems to avoid. Competitive intelligence for $7 a month is hard to beat. ;)

I think the biggest thing for you company, though, is to just put all your
effort into getting operational where demand and connectivity are strongest.
Don't worry about the others too much: you'll just get overstretched. Many
projects have made that mistake. Just add them gradually over time.

~~~
lbostral
Great advice I will keep in mind all the time, thank you :)

------
Tonje
Hi, I'm Tonjé BAKANG, founder and CEO I would be happy to answer all your
questions.

T.

~~~
mkagenius
Hi! All the best for this!

One small question, why is the website in french? I think this product can
have global audience, even better no?

~~~
geofft
French is the _lingua franca_ , after all. :)

~~~
lbostral
;)

------
jcr
I'm absolutely certain you're just buried with the existing work of just
getting your new startup rolling with its original idea (African centric
movies), so put this (somewhat obvious) suggestion on your "possible expansion
ideas for maybe someday" list.

Something I find lacking on broadcast TV is news coverage of Africa. In the
US, the only place where you'll find regular English language broadcast TV
news coverage of Africa is, oddly enough, through CCTV ("China Central
Television" via the Chinese government). Though it is already possible to get
_some_ African news coverage over the web, news as a content source for your
service might be a worthwhile addition.

According to CCTV coverage, African radio broadcasting is (supposedly)
extremely popular and far more widespread than TV. The pervasive use of radio
is (supposedly) due to radio being less expensive than TV and far more widely
adopted by the general populace. The part I found the most interesting is how
both pre-recorded and live serial drama, niche, and educational shows are
still being broadcast in Africa over radio (along with the expected music,
news, and talk shows). Though it's audio rather than video and there a many
companies in the "African Internet Radio" business, radio might (eventually)
be another appealing content source for you.

Good Luck!

------
steve19
I wonder about the African part. African cultures, and languages, vary a lot.
There is zero cultural crossover between Zulus, Marsai and Egyptians for
example.

(I worked in Africa for a number of years)

~~~
lbostral
Hello,

I am Ludovic, cofounder and CTO of Afrostream. You are right the "African
culture" in two words, doesn't exist in fact.There are a lot of different
cultures in Africa. Do you know that Nigeria is the second or third producers
of movies and series (behind India, and sometimes, USA :) ) Ghana is very
productive too. West Africa (Senegal, Mali, Cameroon, Ivroy Coast...) have
some interested movies too. Our goal is to show the difference, and to spread
the word about these cultures.

~~~
liotier
How will you deal with language variety ? Original soundtrack in Xhosa ? Wolof
with French subtitles ? How would anyone even subtitle Nouchi in English ?
Dubbed with more care than your average Nollywood cookie-cutter family drama ?
Or dubbed like a cheap telenovella ? Multiple audio & sub options ? You
contract the post-production yourself ? Je wanda grave !

~~~
lbostral
We are working with some people all over the world for subtitling and dubbing.

We will not dub massively, we prefer people discover contents in their
original format, with subtitles in their languages. we will dub in certain
cases, though, with the good people.

------
mc32
I think one great thing about this is exposing non Africans to African
content.

It will allow Americans (and others in the world) to learn more about actual
modern African cultures. People might be surprised, hopefully not, how middle
class Africans are not that different from middle classes of other
ethnicities. Sure, there will be some cultural difference and there will be an
accusation of Nigerian cultural imperialism, as their programming dominates,
but so does Mexican culture on the rest of LatAm.

The programming may even prove to offer more authentic and aspirational
programing to blacks everywhere bypassing hollywoods imprimatur --which can
only be good.

~~~
robk
That's optimistic. I don't hear about many non-Latino Americans watching
Univision...

~~~
mc32
That's because it's in Spanish....

Lots of African content is in English or french or with subs.

Plus, black Americans might be interested in programming from African
countries, there is a historical connection, most non latams in the us have
their own native programming from Hollywood, so there is no void to be filled
by Univision. They are filling the void for latams in the us, however. Still
Univision mostly presents Mexican content while latam is much larger than just
Mexico.

------
personlurking
I did an Ask HN over 500 days ago wondering why there weren't any specialized
Netflix sites. It didn't get a lot of traction though there were a few
answers.

I'm still waiting for a foreign film 'Netflix'...one day.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6972071](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6972071)

~~~
maximmcnair
try mubi.com, it has a good selection of foreign films. It 'stocks' 30 films
with one being taken up/down everyday, so there anyways something new to
watch.

------
fijal
The african channel that does not work in most of africa :-) No, I know it's
hard to secure rights everywhere, but no streaming service works in _my_ parts
of africa.

~~~
lbostral
Hey, I am Ludovic, Cofounder and CTO of Afrostream, You are right, there are
some technical challenges here. I don't know where you live exactly. We will
not launch in all the continents now, there is no sense here. We are working
with some Internet and mobile providers to facilitate access to Afrostream.
Mobile is the key word here : people have access to cheap android smartphones,
and there will be a lot of deployment of 3G and 4G Networks in the months to
come.

Where do you live in Africa exactly ?

~~~
fijal
South Africa. I know the whatever organization is licensing content here is
hostile enough that most people just don't bother.

------
erikb
Would pay for Netflix for Asian movies. They have some quite incredible flicks
there, but without the language knowledge it's often hard to get access to
them.

~~~
lbostral
Drama Fever and Viki.com could be your weekend friends

------
gcb0
isn't it racist to clump Egyptian, south african, etc culture in the same
genre just because of a continent or skin colour?

also, will it feature "zulu (1964)"? Or are we going to have random values
besides the continent-culture-clumping thing?

~~~
robwilliams
Why is it racist to showcase African media? The founders readily admit in this
thread that they are trying to get more exposure for all African cultures, not
some African monoculture.

~~~
Baghard
It is not racism. It is (positive) discrimination.

If we keep everything the same, but target a different demographic this
service could be called: WhiteStream, a Netflix for whites and white-culture
movies.

"The persuit of happiness" is classified as an Afro-American movie. Why is
that? Does it portray black culture? Or is it because one or more actors have
a black skin? I think it is the latter, because the theme from the movie is
universal and transcends race.

James Bond is a hero, not because he is white, but because of his actions.
Asking why there is no black James Bond is forcing race on an old fictitious
English character (why do you care about the skin color of your heroes?). How
to classify Morgan Freeman movies on the Afro-American scale? Add "Driving
Miss Daisy" to the catalog, but leave out "Evan Almighty"?

"I’m going to stop calling you a white man. And, I’m going to ask you to stop
calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace and you know me as Morgan
Freeman. You don’t say, "Well, ahem! This white guy named Mike Wallace." You
don’t say it."

~~~
lbostral
I love Morgan Freeman by the way. A man who played a president of the USA, and
God multiple times, is exactly what you need to show everywhere, not only on
Afrostream

Is it positive discrimination ? Since there is a political implication there,
I don't think so, but I will try to answer.

Do you know the movie "Ride Along" ? It did more than 100M$ in the American
market for a budget of 25M$. This movie has one of the best start of any movie
all time in January.

Do you know how we could see this movie outside USA. Not in a movie theater in
France, though. Piracy is the first channel to see african-american movies in
Europe and Africa.

Some movies are not well distributed and it appears so that a lot of these
movies are from or with an African descent castings. That's not fair. We will
correct this fact. And if you want to call this positive discrimination, why
not.

Afrostream is a service which will permit to show movies which are not shown
in a lot of countries in a legal way. That's our political statement.

~~~
gcb0
> Afrostream is a service which will permit to show movies which are not shown
> in a lot of countries in a legal way. That's our political statement.

this is my gripe with positive discrimination. it is still discrimination.

you could have been embracing everyone. but you did the same that was being
done before, and picked the single second largest group. why not call it low-
budget-movies-netflix. or hard-to-watch-in-france-netflix? why pick one
group/race and leave others out? that is just ...bad business practice :) you
could have been streaming iranian movies as well, for example.

~~~
lbostral
You give me an idea with iranian movies ;)

you don't understand my point here : We do not do a service for specific
people, we do a service with specific contents.

I will try with another argument : Tyler Perry is one the most prominent
performer of the USA. He did movies, series, theater. All successful. He is
maybe the most complete artist in the USA. These productions were distributed
in the USA. You can't find these production in France by example, but either
in a lot of countries. Why ?

Afrostream's goal here is to distribute Tyler Perry and other talents all over
the world. As I said, I don't know if this is positive dsicrimination, but
Afrostream is my political statement to this 'Why'

~~~
gcb0
so you think it's valid that the racist movie distribution industry in France
only distribute non-African culture (whatever that is) movies? i mean, by your
standard, limiting by skin color is doing a service to someone...

~~~
lbostral
The problem here is that movies with black people (as we said in France, we
need to call a cat a cat, we need to define clearly the skin here), had to be
seen everywhere, not only in France, because that's why the movies need to be
: to watch by the most. And that's what we are doing, making exposure to
underserved movies. And we are doing even in some underserved countries

We don't need to deal with racism, we want to tackle it.

