
Melatonin's Effect on Skin and Hair - apsec112
https://thelri.org/blog-and-news/melatonin-s-effect-on-skin-and-hair/
======
Merrill
Effects of Melatonin in Age‐Related Macular Degeneration

[https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1196/ann...](https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1196/annals.1356.029)

"We conclude that the daily use of 3 mg melatonin seems to protect the retina
and to delay macular degeneration. No significant side effects were observed."

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rsp1984
For anyone taking Melatonin as a sleeping aid: The dosages it is being sold at
are way too high. Recent studies point to 0.3 mg being the right amount for
adults [1].

That dosage (taken over a period of several months every day at the same time)
helped me get through a period of insomnia last summer, when basically all the
other medications failed or had too strong side effects.

[1]
[http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017](http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017)

~~~
YinglingLight
“Many health food stores are now selling melatonin, to induce sleep and
“prevent cancer.” They have taken some information out of context, and don’t
realize how dangerous melatonin is. It makes the brain sluggish, causes the
sex organs to shrink, and damages immunity by shrinking the thymus gland. It
is the hormone of darkness and winter, and is produced in the pineal gland by
any stress which increases adrenalin. Adequate sun light suppresses the
formation of melatonin.” -Ray Peat, PhD

~~~
krageon
"In general, the direct actions of melatonin on the gonads and adnexa of
mammals indicate it is an important agent for maintaining optimal reproductive
physiology" \-
[https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/14/4/7231](https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/14/4/7231)

When I look at other papers in this space I do find some adverse responses in
hamster nuts when given melatonin injections (but not when it is administered
using an implant).

At this point I did not want to research the other claims in the quote
anymore. Instead, perhaps I can ask you: Do you know of any solid research
that backs these (frankly very strong and contrary to everything else I've
read) claims? If not, why did you choose to say this?

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abainbridge
> administering melatonin prior to exposure to UV radiation increases cell
> survival and reduces oxidative damage. Topical melatonin applied to skin 15
> minutes prior to exposure to UV radiation completely prevented skin redness
> (erythema) in a small randomized double-blind study of human subjects

This isn't necessarily good news. Sun burn is your body's way of reducing skin
cancer. When your body detects too much exposure to sun, it kills the cells
that are most likely to have suffered DNA damage. The soreness and
inflammation are a result of that mechanism. Disabling that mechanism would
cause skin cancer.

But maybe melatonin promotes DNA repair and thus the cells don't need to be
killed. More research needed :-)

~~~
zuminator
Are you saying this as a medical research professional or just spitballing?
Because the article send to be straightforwardly claiming that melatonin is
reducing oxidative damage, not just disabling the visible effects. One of the
referenced sources is entitled, "Melatonin as a major skin protectant: from
free radical scavenging to DNA damage repair," which seems to be saying that
the "more research needed" has already been done, like 10 years ago.

~~~
killjoywashere
Free radical damage is not the main mechanism of UV-induced DNA damage. The
main mechanism is direct dimerization as the photo-excited electron relaxes.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_DNA_damage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_DNA_damage)

~~~
phkahler
It's hard to see how anything could prevent that other than sunscreen.

~~~
mises
Think back to your high-school bio and chem; remember the whole idea of
unpaired atoms or groups if atoms running around? That's a free radical.
Remember that it takes energy to break chemical bonds? That's what UV does:
provides the energy. The damage it causes is basically knocking random
compounds and proteins apart. This leaves a random atom running around without
an electron: a "free radical". Antioxidants donate an electron, thereby
neutralizing the free radical. The real problem is when it does it to DNA; it
can forcibly bond with it, and that's when you can get cancer. Which is why
antioxidants are important.

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canttestthis
Tangentially I'm interested to know whether taking melatonin for long periods
of time (years) reduces its effectiveness. I've been taking it for nearly a
year but I've heard stories about how you need to keep increasing the dose to
get the same effect.

~~~
gnulinux
I have chronic insomnia, I had it all my life. I used to use melatonin but yes
over time it lost its effect and melatonin is not one of those drugs you can
just take more to sleep. It has a very precise dosage and if you take more it
doesn't make you more sleepy.

If you have chronic insomnia, you need to solve the root cause. In my case it
is anxiety, and currently I'm trying to solve my anxiety and my sleep quality
improves as a corrolary.

~~~
themodelplumber
I take doxylamine succinate 5-10 mg about an hour before bed and find that it
helps with sleep much more than melatonin, which only seemed to help with a
very time-limited form of tiredness (it wore off and I'd wake up).

Still, even the antihistamine (sold as a sleep aid) can't do all the work when
something big is going down the next day. Like a meeting with a big client
requiring a lot of travel. A big stressor must be addressed.

In that case though, I find that writing 1000 to 2000 words about everything
that could possibly go wrong gets me to the point where I can sleep like a
baby. Precisely because I'm attaking the source of the anxiety. Most nights
though it's easier just to do some basic organization and scheduling and take
1/3 of a little pill.

In the morning I do often take 50-100mg Jet Alert to blunt the fade-in. It's
way easier to feel comfortable taking caffeine when fully rested.

An experiment in progress always, but at 9h average sleep (excluding waking
times as recorded on FitBit) I managed to go 10 months between illness, as
someone with an autoimmune condition (sjogrens). My previous record was 4
months. On top of that, no more depression. My subjective day ratings have
gone through the roof. I have to laugh when I'm working with 10 hours of sleep
and literally cannot find a single thing to be sour about in my entire life
condition (the journaling template I use takes me through this). Plenty of
problems, just more resources to work with. Sleep is worth the chase.

Edit: While I'm talking about anxiety, I have been testing L-theanine recently
and so far it seems to lower the anxiety floor a little bit. There's nothing
like getting your stressors sorted directly, but sometimes things are more
complex than that, and if supplements can help, great.

~~~
pmiller2
Doxylamine succinate is a potent anticholinergic drug, as are (IIRC) all other
OTC antihistamines that cause drowsiness. Long term use of such drugs have
been linked to dementia later in life. I would at least read some of the
literature and re-evaluate whether using drugs like this to sleep on a regular
basis is worthwhile.

~~~
themodelplumber
Already done. No dementia in family history, and the actual literature leaves
much to be desired in terms of qualitative result.

By the way I discourage the use of the term "linked" in light conversation as
it has recently and unfortunately become a socio-culturally appropriated term
indicating proof of causality. That a linkage exists often means far less than
most people think, and this could immediately impact their health-related
decision-making for the worse.

~~~
GordonS
I didn't read the paper since it first came out (1-2 years ago?), but I seem
to recall a clear causal link _was_ found?

~~~
themodelplumber
I would really encourage you to review the study again. For example, the
authors themselves acknowledged a lot of legitimate reader concerns with the
inclusion of this statement:

"These observational studies have 4 important limitations. First, current
anticholinergic use was ascertained at study entry and periodically during
follow-up only by conducting a medication inventory. Second, these studies
lacked information about the dose and duration of anticholinergic use. Third,
these studies had short follow-up periods. This last point is important
because the pathophysiological changes in the brains of patients with AD
require several years to occur. Finally, these studies did not take into
account that certain anticholinergics are used to manage insomnia and
depression, prodromal conditions that can be seen in early but undiagnosed
dementia, leading to protopathic bias."

I had other concerns as well, and these items alone are a pretty big deal.
Like I said above, the _quality_ of the establishment of a "link" is really
leaving much to be desired here. This is barely even legitimate science, where
any kind of causality is concerned.

[https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2091745)

~~~
GordonS
Thanks for taking the time to provide a summary - I will indeed take another
look (I have hydroxyzine at night, so it's very relevant for me)

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kristofferR
This is required reading for anybody taking or thinking about taking
melatonin:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17632668](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17632668)

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cyounkins
Gwern has some great info on melatonin -
[https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin](https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin)

I take Natrol brand Melatonin Fast Dissolve Tablets, Strawberry flavor, 3mg,
splitting them in half (for 1.5 mg) and put it under my tongue for sublingual
absorption.

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Reason077
I once asked about melatonin in a health food shop and was told it’s _illegal_
in the UK!

The seems odd in a country where (for example) you can buy codeine pills over-
the-counter, so now I’m curious about why it was banned, considering it’s
reported to have few side effects?

~~~
oskarpearson
You can easily buy it on eBay. A USA company which has local dropshipping
sells it, and manages to skirt the regulations.

My understanding is that it’s not sold over the counter (otc) is because it’s
a hormone. The class of drugs isn’t available otc.

Also: I think many people use it in completely the wrong quantities and in the
wrong way. I’ve heard of people in countries where it’s legal giving their
kids 30mg to get them to sleep.. “it’s otc so it must be safe”. I don’t blame
the NHS

~~~
ben_w
When I moved to Berlin and found I couldn’t get paracetamol, ibuprofen, or
aspirin in the supermarkets, a local told me the “it’s otc so it must be safe”
attitude had caused people to overdose on them.

People are strange everywhere.

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braindumps
I know a lot of people who take melatonin to fall asleep. Trying to understand
if that's good or bad here?

~~~
qwerty456127
Nothing is bad in melatonin except the tolerance development. If I wasn't
afraid of developing tolerance to endogenous melatonin I would take huge doses
of it every evening.

~~~
taneq
So you're saying it's pretty much a free lunch?

~~~
scotty79
Not sure if it'll do anything for you but it surely is safe. My SO is taking
20mg per day for years (for glioma, not insomnia, it's way too high dose to
work for insomnia). She had a break from it for few months during which her
tumors started regrowing, might be coincidence.

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graeme
Question for people on melatonin. I tried 0.5 mg does, from cutting a 1 mg
pill in half. Didn't have much effect.

Had a concussion three months ago and started taking 2 mg based on a post
concussion study I read. _this_ did markedly improve my sleep.

1\. Did anyone experience a good effect only at higher doses

2\. I'm doing much better day to day on this dosage, but I don't want to
impair my own production. Do I need to go down to 0.3 mg, or can I cycle it
etc?

It's really been life changing. Will ask my doctor the next time I'm in, of
course.

~~~
JimBrimble35
As I understand it, Melatonin can be administered as a hypotic (taken in
larger doses (1mg - 3mg) before bed), or it can be taken in smaller doses
hours before bed to trigger the natural release of Melatonin and start the
sleep cycle. (I mentioned this in another comment).

~~~
graeme
Oh, interesting. So 30 min or so before, 1-3 mg would be effective, but with a
lower dose I should try 3-4 hours before bed or so?

Thanks! I'll try that and see what happens.

~~~
JimBrimble35
Yeah, you might have more success that way. I take 3mg right before bed and I
find I fall asleep a lot faster than I do without it. Especially if I've been
on a screen before bed or my brain just doesn't want to shut up.

if you're thinking about trying the option where you take it a few hours
before bed time, make sure you're going to bed at a consistent target time
(10pm for example). Since this method is more targeted at resetting your
circadian rhythm.

If you feel like you have more serious sleep/wake problems I would definitely
recommend seeing a specialist. I was surprised to learn that people who say
things like "I can't go to sleep until x o'clock" or "I can't stay awake
beyond x time" probably suffer from circadian rhythm problems that are
treatable.. but the treatment isn't always as intuitive as you might think.

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sfsfsf6666
My grandfather lived to 94. Towards the end, the doctors had him on all sorts
of schtuff. When he started his final decline in the last months, a hospice
worker started coming a couple of times a week to check on him. Grandpa no
longer wanted to hang around, ready to "see grandma again", he didn't want to
take his medications. We finally relented when the hospice lady said that it
was OK, so grandpa was allowed to stop taking his medications. Then something
odd happened. Grandpa got better. Which really him. The hospice lady said that
it was normal, and she'd seen that happen many times. Grandpa's recovery was
shortlived though, mainly because he was hellbent on checking out, and he
finally passed, in not too horrible a manner. He fell asleep, then fell into a
deep unconscious state, then everything just shut down. In retrospect, I
attribute his longevity, aside from genetic potential, to moderation, as well
as getting moderate daily sunshine, fresh air, home cooking, walking, and
having a reason to get out of bed every morning to attack the day. He had
minimal immunizations, I'm sure the ones he got where of the highest quality
(who the hell knows the quality control of modern mass produced overseas
immunizations), he also took no supplements, and his exposure to the changes
in mass produced food in recent decades, would have been minimal as most of
his life had already passed. I'm in my late 40s, and virtually all of my
friends have similar stories to tell. Our grandparents lived a long time. Our
parents less so. And we're sure that our own lifespans will be even less. Pure
lifespan aside, looking at the quality of life, it's even more dramatic.
Grandpa and his friends did more at 60, then I did at 40. Parents did more at
50 then friends and I did at 40. Now it's common knowledge that 20 and 30 year
olds are increasingly shocking doctors in trend-like fashion, with general
poor health, and issues.

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kgwxd
Wonder if people with more hair in later years tend to be sleepier.

~~~
dade_
Or if they get better sleep, actually more alert in afternoon/evenings.

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illegalsmile
I've been taking melatonin for the last 3 months since cutting out alcohol and
it seemed to help with falling into a sleep. As Friday I stopped taking it
because I don't want to be reliant on something for sleep other than exercise
and proper diet. Anecdotally, my sleep the last three nights since cutting it
out have been horribly restless and not fulfilling. I'd rather not take it but
if after a week normal sleep doesn't return I might since it sounds like it's
relatively benign compared to other sleep aids.

Are there any longitudinal studies about years of usage?

~~~
projectramo
I have the same concerns and every doctor I ask tells me the study show no
long term effects at all.

One explanation: I tend to take melatonin when I am very tired and didn't get
enough sleep the previous night. But on those nights I sleep very well anyway.
And once I have enough sleep I don't sleep as deeply the next night. Perhaps
that is a lurking variable for me.

Do you have a fitbit or something to track the sleep?

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collyw
Would crushing a melatonin pill and adding it to suncream work?

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chillytoes
I take magnesium supplements to help with sleep. First read about it on Hacker
News 6-12 months ago. Changed my life. My insomnia is not cured, but
definitely much better and zero side effects. I tried many different sleeping
pills, but they either made me too groggy the next morning or their efficacy
lessened over time. Just Magnesium Citrate from Walgreens is what I use.

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limeblack
I take something called rozerem which is essentially a prescription melatonin.
There is lots of debate if these really work.

~~~
therealx
Melatonin is available OAC in the US, hence some of the difference.

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k__
I know a few people who are eating bananas like crazy since they found out
about it.

~~~
andrewjrhill
Why?

~~~
jsmit
Bananas contain L-tryptophan. Your body converts L-tryptophan to melatonin (+
serotonin and vitamin B6).

~~~
Relys
Isn't that the same stuff that's in Turkey and 5-HTP?

~~~
jsmit
L-tryptophan can be found in many types of food such as meat, nuts and eggs.
The body converts it to 5-HTP, which in turn converts to serotonin (in the
brain).

