
Millionaires Flee California After Tax Hike - spking
https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2018/07/06/millionaires-flee-california-after-tax-hike/#596e61944189
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jacobmoe
I'm enjoying the contrast between the title of this article and the first
sentence of the article that it links to:

> California lost a very small but statistically significant percentage of
> high-income residents after voters approved Proposition 30

I wish it was possible to talk about important and interesting issues like
optimal tax levels without everything being an ideological battle. I don't
care if you think taxes are too high on high income earners. You might be
right. But you should be curious about the possibility that you're wrong.

~~~
kryogen1c
> I wish it was possible to talk about important and interesting issues like
> optimal tax levels without everything being an ideological battle. I don't
> care if you think taxes are too high

Irony meter off the charts.

most people don't understand they are likely tax consumers, not providers. As
a thought experiment, it must be true that at some income level a person uses
more taxes than they provide. Quantifying the exact number is difficult and
locality dependent, but it clearly exists. Who do you think the major tax
revenue providers are? Corporations and rich people. I don't understand why
anyone thinks they're not paying their fair share when they are almost the
only ones paying.

The top 10% of us wage earners account for over 70% of personal income tax
revenue, while the bottom 50% (under 40k/year) contribute <3%

[https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-
taxe...](https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes)

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cannonedhamster
The reason people see it as unfair is because the wealth in the United States
goes disproportionately to the top. Of course they are going to be the ones
paying they are the only ones left with anything of value and any real
disposable income. The money they pay mostly goes to services that benefit
themselves anyways. There's a reason that wealthier areas have nicer schools,
better roads, always get plowed first. I mean come on if the top 10 percent
are only paying 70% then they are underpaying based on the fact that they hold
77% of American wealth. Let's not get into the world.
[https://billmoyers.com/story/top-10-percent-
wealth/](https://billmoyers.com/story/top-10-percent-wealth/)

~~~
tekproxy
Pareto distributions occur in all skill dependent distributions from musicians
and academics. You say it like it's some evil conspiracy or that the rich only
become rich by making others poor.

~~~
cannonedhamster
It's not that rich people are evil. Rich people control the systems by which
money is made and logically reserve as large a portion of that pie as they can
for themselves. The problem is that as a group they have made it so that there
is not enough at the bottom and policy needs to be changed to reflect that.
It's like saying you have a group of two people in a room with a pump that
keeps giving them air, but the pump is fed by a room full of 50 people who
keep having a dwindling supply of air to breathe. The only thing keeping those
two rooms apart is an unlocked door. At some point either the people with all
the air share it, or the people in the room without it will open the door by
force. It's just a statement of human nature. Imbalanced systems have a way of
achieving balance.

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kryogen1c
> Imbalanced systems have a way of achieving balance.

You glossed over that like there is some ideal system we're being kept from by
evil rich people. What exactly is this unlocked door we open and everything is
solved?

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pat2man
Would love to see the numbers on millionaires created by California who choose
to stay. If the California economy is good enough those numbers could offset
the lack of millionaires moving to California.

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secabeen
It's nothing. From a neutral article without an axe to grind or a political
message to send:

>The state lost an estimated 138 high-income individuals, or about 0.04
percent of the roughly 312,000 people subject to the tax increase, said co-
author Charles Varner, associate director of the Stanford Center on Poverty
and Inequality.

[https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/networth/article/Dozens...](https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/networth/article/Dozens-
of-millionaires-fled-California-after-2012-13053135.php)

Ideally, the mods would replace the top link with the SFChronicle one that
puts the number in context and gives way more details, but it may not be worth
it.

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zaroth
Political axe aside, the tax rate is foremost in entrepreneurs minds when they
decide to build a company in CA. Maybe even more so than labor costs.

You don’t obsess and negotiate over 0.1% increases in option pools and ignore
the silent 15%/25%/35% partner in the room.

CA eliminating the QSBS Section 1202 exemption is an equally glaring wart on
establishing CA residency for entrepreneurs.

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bilbo0s
"...the tax rate is foremost in entrepreneurs minds when they decide to build
a company in CA..."

???

No horse in the California tax race personally, but if taxes are your foremost
consideration when launching your startup, you should really rethink your
plans. That advice is not specific to California startups. If taxes are the
foremost consideration for a prospective startup anywhere in the US, you
should sit down with someone to talk through your plan. Just to ensure that it
makes sense.

If I heard that from a prospective startup here in Wisconsin? I have to say,
just on first blush, something would sound off about that.

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jacknews
"Going back to California’s high tax burden, Varner’s new research backs up
the old adage that when you tax something you get less of it. That applies
whether the thing being taxed is cigarettes, booze, or, in California’s case,
millionaires. "

I would say this is fake logic. No-one is going to stop trying to be a
millionaire because of taxes.

Though they may try to move to a another state to avoid them.

That just highlights that the tax system needs to be less fragmented and
"service oriented". Individual states may charge taxes based on the services
they provide, but taxation at large should be about balancing the wealth
distribution.

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dghughes
You have to wonder about people against any taxes where do they think roads,
schools, military, police, fire etc. all come from. They just pop into
existence?

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dmarlow
From others, obviously.

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RickJWagner
I'd like to see increased taxes targeted at the entertainment industry.

Entertainment seems to given an oversized voice in influencing politics. It
would be right for the industry to contribute a corresponding amount of money
to help fund the issues espoused.

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commandlinefan
Surprised it took so long. Come here to Texas and start up some companies
here.

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unstatusthequo
Left SF. Not willing to be a tax donkey any more. Not only because of this,
but also housing cost vs value and Trump tax plan limit on limiting state tax.

Washington has been great! At least a 13% raise!

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coldseattle
I just stopped working. Between state and local taxes, I only got to keep 46
cents of every additional dollar I earned. I shut down my business, let 6
people go, and stopped.

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rabboRubble
What do you do now?

