
Ask HN: How do you get people to pay you back? Tools? - ljoshua
Example scenario: Recently a bunch of us at the office were all craving pizza for lunch, and so we decided to put in an order for about 12 or so people, coming to ~$130 total. I organized and paid the bill, and it was delicious.<p>However, trying to get people to pay back their agreed portion was tough. I’m not a penny-hound so even though there were a few people who didn’t actually pay up I’m alright, but I could imagine in other scenarios where you really would want to make sure everyone contributed. In the end, it was a mix of a few cash payments, some PayPal, and a failed Google Wallet attempt.<p>Are there tools that you use to split out bills amongst a larger group of people (say 5 or more), that allows people to get you paid back easily? I could easily envision a little web app that would make this exceedingly easy, but was hoping to find something already in existence first.
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dangrossman
People keep building that app, using it to acquire customers, then pivoting
into a generic payment platform because payment processing is a volume
business and consumers splitting checks is such a tiny percentage of the
market. It's the founding story for PayPal (originally for PalmPilot!), WePay,
etc.

If you really want to make sure everyone contributes, try Tilt maybe? I think
the idea is that the pool can't be used until everyone pays in.
[https://www.tilt.com/](https://www.tilt.com/)

For mobile payments, Venmo perhaps? [https://venmo.com/](https://venmo.com/)
Though I would probably just use PayPal myself.

~~~
sp332
Venmo is notoriously insecure.
[http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/safety_net/2015/02/...](http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/safety_net/2015/02/venmo_security_it_s_not_as_strong_as_the_company_wants_you_to_think.single.html)

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ianburrell
Splitwise, [https://www.splitwise.com/](https://www.splitwise.com/), works
well for splitting bills and keeping track of who owes what. I have heard it
works really well for ongoing relationships like roommates or coworkers.

~~~
fennecfoxen
Definitely Splitwise.

Depending on your coworkers, amusing games about who gets to buy each other
lunch may ensue as people attempt to get a really nice splitwise score, or
demand repayment in the form of remote-controlled helicopters. (But that's
startup life for you.)

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bliti
Cash in hand before ordering. No money, no food. If it were an order of less
than $50 total, then no problem. But more than that and you have to be strict.
It might be that they see it as only being $5-$20 each, but they are not
taking into account the total. Let them know that. Mind you, this is not a
problem you fix with code. This is something that you learn from. Don't pay
for everybody. You are opening yourself up for stupid office problems.

~~~
bluedino
Who still carries cash?

~~~
fennecfoxen
Anyone who eats out regularly in New York City.

Anyway. Cash is a boring solution, but you get bonus points if someone brings
in a few hundred in dollar coins and $2 bills :P

~~~
baby
You can't pay with your credit card in NYC? Wow, here in Chicago I think it
just happened to me once that I had to pay in cash to get into a gig (bottom
lounge), otherwise I would never carry cash.

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robotcookies
That's strange because when we do this, the person who initially paid usually
ends up with more cash back after everyone else repays. Maybe this is a good
way to measure the honesty of co-workers.

But I am the same way and hate trying to 'collect dues'. One approach would be
to have everyone take turns paying for the entire meal and not worry about
collecting individual payments. They do this in some countries regularly (I
think Spain is one) - people take turns paying for everything so it works out
in the end. Although I do recall a Spanish friend saying there was one person
in her group who would habitually take longer to come up in the roster of
"person paying entire meal".

It's an interesting idea for an app though. Instead of you nagging late
payers, the app could send email reminders to them. There could be stickiness
to an app that has some reputational knowledge of how individuals have paid up
in the past. Sort of like a fico score but among friends or coworkers.

~~~
contingencies
_One approach would be to have everyone take turns paying for the entire meal
and not worry about collecting individual payments. They do this in some
countries regularly (I think Spain is one) - people take turns paying for
everything so it works out in the end_

China famously operates like this. Interestingly, they call the western
techniques of splitting the 'AA method', implying an equal split by
participants.

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rayalez
I would say that the best tools to get people to pay you back are crowbar and
pliers.

Seriously though:

[https://www.splitwise.com](https://www.splitwise.com)

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nfriedly
I used to live with 3 roommates and we kept a spreadsheet in google docs of
who paid for what (bills, shared groceries, etc.) The spreadsheet
automatically figured out who owed who and how much.

Every now and then someone would pass out some cash to catch up (and log it in
the sheet). It worked surprisingly well for us.

I think the reasons it worked were 1) everyone agreed in principle, and 2) not
entering your updates was effectively the same as giving everyone else money.

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DanBC
Cash up front, especially for previous non-payers.

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redthrowaway
Send out and email to the entire office listing the people you still need
money from. Then send another one the next week with the one or two stragglers
listed. Social pressure and implied shame work great.

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leesalminen
We use square cash extensively at the office. No fees!

~~~
jhgg
Likewise. Square Cash is great. Especially if you're cool with splitting the
bill equally, you can send the same cash request to a group of people in
seconds.

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greggman
My friends all use Venmo. I paid for lunch once so I'd have some credit in
their system. Then I use that for future lunches.

~~~
OedipusRex
My circle of friends use Venmo, I highly recommend it.

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silveira
1\. I take a picture of the restaurant bill, in case my memory is obstructed
by alcohol. 2\. Bill people using Venmo. Email then the picture I took.

For more complicated stuff, life travels, I keep a Google Spreadsheets which
calculates what each paid, and how much each needs to pay to the others. Then
I share it with everyone.

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ArenaNinja101
Venmo. People in the office here use it for paying rent, and even splitting
cash for cabs, food, and the like.

~~~
tmnt007
Always do separate tickets for food. This prevents a Tragedy of the Commons,
especially with large groups of people whom you do not know well, where there
is a real possibility that their Wall Street d-bag friends order the lobster
bisque, filet mignon and champagne and expect everyone else ordering a side
salad to subsidize their stockbroker-but-has-a-subzero-balancesheet
"lifestyle." Don't be a sucker.

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codingdave
We just take turns paying - it avoids all the micromanagement of getting each
dollar back from everybody. Everyone has a big bill once in a while, and free
lunches the rest of the time. As long as the group who goes out together is
reasonably consistent, in the long run, it is fair to everyone.

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lostbit
I used [http://tricount.com/](http://tricount.com/) It can be web only or a
mobile app.

I remember looking for the word "iou", meaning "I owe you" and found some apps
regarding splitting the bills, but I ended up with Tricount.

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codezero
Funny anecdote. At a former company, about 20 of us went out to Dim Sum,
expecting to split the bill.

One of my co-workers was from Hong Kong and mentioned that they did this once
or twice a week. So being a clueless American, I asked how they handled
splitting the bill.

I guess I wasn't too surprised at his response, but he seemed completely
puzzled as to why this was an issue. He said they each paid their share, and
that was that.

I shared how this is a constant problem for diverse groups in the US, and he
basically understood, but thought it was really funny.

My theory as to why this is an issue is that people all have their own
preferences around food. What to eat, how much to eat, whether they'll also
drink, and how much to tip.

We feel very entitled to all of those. Some people, when offered an all-you-
can-eat service, will eat an insane amount of food, while others will eat the
same that they would if it were plate-by-plate.

Some will drink if the alcohol is cheap, others will drink twice as much if
it's expensive.

Some want just a salad, while others want salad, a main course, and dessert.

Welp, this causes a huge disparity because the bill comes in and either you
need to go line by line to get the total, then impose a line by line tip
percentage for each person, and, surprise surprise, nobody has cash.

So, how can all this be solved?

Here are a few solutions.

1) If it's for the office, have the company pay for it. This is a really
reasonable request. Expense it. It removes any question about who owes what,
and removes the sort of grating annoyance of collecting money from
individuals. Doing that again and again will wear down a team.

2) Get everyone on board with the same money transfer app, and collect payment
immediately.

Use Venmo, or Square Cash, or what ever else is out there. Instant payments
make this all go away. If you want to get the app adopted fast, have your
company pitch in and send $5 or $10 to each person as an incentive to join up
on the same app. This will pay dividends down the road.

3) If all else fails, make it clear up front that the price is going to be
split equally, and keep a public log of who has and has not paid – send out an
email reminder to the team with the names and who owes what. This may seem
extreme, but if for some reason you're unable or unwilling to do 1) or 2) this
will make things clear up real fast. If you are concerned that someone on the
team can't afford to pay, obviously, don't hassle them, and try to amortize
the cost by spreading it over the rest of the team as discretely as you can,
or ask a few people who are sympathetic to pitch in offline.

For tools: At my company we use Abacus for expenses, and Venmo for cash
transfer.

Amongst friends, we use Square Cash, mainly because one of the regulars works
for Square :)

~~~
Udo
_> Welp, this causes a huge disparity because the bill comes in and either you
need to go line by line to get the total, then impose a line by line tip_

The alternative is to make the waiter go around and handle each guest
individually. In scenarios where a single payer isn't available and just
"collectively putting some cash on the table until it's OK" is not an option,
this works quite well. Restaurant staff I think like it as well, because
overall the tip will probably be larger.

~~~
codezero
Many places will refuse to do this, it's the reason that a lot of restaurants
have a "X% gratuity for parties larger than Y"

It's annoying, but it's also really annoying to have to break up a bill after
the fact, which is why this entire problem exists in the first place. It's
definitely not the restaurant's fault that people can't agree on how to pay
for things :)

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phn
We used to use a tracking/shame trello board (unpayed/paid/verified columns).
The debts sometimes took a long time to be paid, but nothing was left unpaid.

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facepalm
Maybe huge post it notes on the coffee machine as a reminder?

~~~
tmnt007
Shameless people will make a vine selfie to point out the passive-aggressive
loser out some coin.

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vinnyglennon
[https://www.scred.com/register/?group=sharing](https://www.scred.com/register/?group=sharing)

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rejschaap
My Dutch bank has an internet banking app with this feature built in. I guess
there is a reason they call it going Dutch. So yeah, switch to a Dutch bank.
;)

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mbesto
I get people to send me Square Cash right then and there.

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tmnt007
Maybe it's a signal to change jobs, or launch a startup, where folks aren't
petty crooks? Life is short; time is precious.

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jaymoorthi
Check out splitwise: [https://www.splitwise.com/](https://www.splitwise.com/)

~~~
mminer
Splitwise works especially well for groups that share bills regularly, e.g.
roommates. Recurring bills and email reminders are especially helpful to make
the monthly shakedown unnecessary. My favourite feature is the option to
simplify debts, minimizing the number of payments that need to be made between
people to settle up (their example: if you owe Anna $10 and Anna owes Bob $10,
Splitwise tells you to pay Bob $10 directly so that there's only one
transaction instead of two).

It's a great example of a "small" piece of software that does one thing and
does it well.

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scottmcdot
This reminds me of something my girlfriend wrote.
[https://abbey.silvrback.com/why-we-should-never-take-it-
in-t...](https://abbey.silvrback.com/why-we-should-never-take-it-in-turns)

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7Figures2Commas
I personally find that brass knuckles are really effective in situations like
this but if you have brittle hands, pistol-whipping might be more to your
liking.

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zackify
Why did nobody mention Square Cash?

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supercapullo
seriously, how about finding a better place to work with more financially
healthy coworkers? If someone need to payback a pizza bill with Paypal,
there's something very wrong with these guys

~~~
ljoshua
No it wasn't like that, it was just a chill thing we all did one day, and I
don't think anyone was trying to short anyone else. I can excuse forgetting
here and there, and most people don't carry cash around the office. It was
fine, and a great place to work.

