

Aaron Swartz & A Culture of Denial: Depression & Suicide in Tech - tgrzinic
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/01/15/aaron-swartz-a-culture-of-denial-depression-suicide-in-tech/

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bguthrie
To be clear, Aaron didn't work in Silicon Valley, or at a startup. Aaron was
running his own well-funded team in an office in New York City at a 20 year-
old company with good healthcare run by adults. It was not a high-stress work
environment; I know, because I spent time on that team. I assure you that none
of us deny the seriousness of depression, least of all me.

But Aaron was a very private person, and although he put a tremendous amount
of pressure on himself to do the right thing, it could be hard to tell what
his internal state was. At any rate, at the end, his efforts were focused
almost completely on the trial, not on code. He spent time strategizing about
how to bring around MIT and working with his lawyers. We surrounded him with
help and were raising funds for his defense.

He had love and support. He kept on expressing optimistic sentiments, like
"this is going to be a good year." He apparently acted cheerful the morning-
of. His friends and partner are shattered. This Monday-morning quarterbacking
does not help them.

~~~
gruseom
This comment is worth so much more than the article. Thank you.

------
juliano_q
I think this article is very important because it differs from many others
that supposes that the prosecution caused the suicide.

I, like many others, am pissed with the overreach of the prosecution and think
that the legal system must change. Aaron never deserved 6 months on jail.

That said, it was obvious that Aaron would face the possibility to go to jail
many times in his career after he choose to be an internet activist. If you
choose this path, it is something you have to be prepared to deal with. A
person with severe depression choosing a career like this is an obvious
candidate for suicide.

Ortiz, Heymann and MIT are guilty for overreaching and made a bad decision
with this prosecution. But they are not murderers. Aaron choose this path. He
choose to risk his life to try to change something on the world. He was bold
and he will always be remembered.

------
RyanMcGreal
My reading of the various articles since Aaron's death has not been that
people are blaming the prosecution for _causing_ it, but rather noting:

a) it was almost certainly a contributing factor; and

b) regardless of its contribution to Aaron's death, it is ethically and
legally appalling _in itself_ to subject someone to the threat of a felony
conviction and decades in prison for what amounts to a TOS violation -
downloading large numbers of articles over an open network.

I appreciate the perspective this article brings to the real cultural
challenges around recognizing, acknowledging and addressing depression, but
there is no need for dismissive strawman attacks against those who have chosen
to focus some of their outrage on the despicable actions of the US prosecutor
in this matter.

~~~
BrokenPipe
I think you have a great way of expressing the point. In my view Aaron would
be happy to know his sacrifices contributed into generating this sort of
discussions and hopefully change.

------
intended
There are 3 battles which are being fought here, and they should ideally be
separated out during discussions.

The trial affected a brilliant person who pushed limits of the world around
him, to his limits.

At the same time there are thousands of convicts who have committed far more
heinous crimes, and others who are being prosecuted harshly for crimes they
didn't commit who don't follow this path.

Aaron died not because of the trial but because of depression. Having dealt
with depression and depressed people, I know this fact intimately.

Depression and mental illness are humiliating, and with depression things
reach a stage where anything and everything can become a trigger.

The second issue is the over-zealousness of the prosecution, . What they aimed
to do is wrong, not just for Aaron but for many other accused in America.

And the finally battle is the one for culture and openness that Aaron was a
champion of.

So far I have seen people champion the latter two causes (over-zealousness and
open access to information) more than the first (depression).

~~~
BrokenPipe
>Aaron died not because of the trial but because of depression

Aaron died because he decided suicide was the best course of action. Given
that the trial was what ultimately and unjustly squashed him, I would say he
did die because of the harsh and unjust trial.

Depression is not a cause, is a consequence.

~~~
Deestan
> Aaron died because he decided suicide was the best course of action.

People suffering from depression are not rational.

I don't mean that "I can't make sense of this decision therefore they aren't
rational", but people having _recovered_ from depression consider their own
thought processes from the depression to be flat out _wrong_.

~~~
BrokenPipe
In my view there is depression and depression. Some people have good reasons
to be depressed and those can be very rational reasons.

~~~
intended
Depression has a side effect of making normal thinking patterns unusable.

You could literally win a lottery, and feel that the world hates you.

Your thought process would go - I won a lottery, but I still feel dead inside.
Why go on, there isn't anything for live for.

I hate to use an example to explain depression, because its always
"explainable", but hopefully as a vignette into what every waking moment of
life is like for someone with depression, it should serve its purpose.

Edit: grammar in last para.

------
oinksoft
"a technology sub-culture that mostly doesn’t understand — or care much —
about mental illness."

I'd go a step further and suggest that North American business culture, if not
North American culture at large (and there's a good argument to be made that
the latter is circumscribed by the former), is guilty of this as well. I don't
think it's at all exclusive to IT.

~~~
BrokenPipe
Do you this is 'because' of purer capitalism ? Isn't that north american
[business] culture at large ? As opposed to mixed capitalism/socialism in
other western countries.

~~~
oinksoft
I think that the old protestant work ethic, which of course is what originally
made American capitalism so strong, is more to blame.

------
freejack
I don't like the argument here. I mean, in the technical sense.

It seems to attempt to lever facts about a specific situation into an
otherwise unsupported generalization.

A couple of things leapt out at me - a) Aaron wasn't subject to the pressures
of industry in Silicon Valley. He'd chosen a different path, and b) the author
offers no support for his implication that the suicide rate in tech is higher
than other industries.

The article didn't hang together for me and I'm left wondering if its just
opportunistic drivel or a fair portrayal of a real concern that's been poorly
argued.

------
jcfrei
this is the first article that puts aarons decision into perspective. while
there are certainly broken laws in the us prosecution system, I never bought
that the prosecutors were responsible for this tragedy. the tech community is
in uproar about the unfairness of the trial against aaron but more fundamental
issues in our society have caused this tragedy: the stigma of depression and
other mental illnesses and the high amount of stress to which we're exposed in
the 21st century.

------
vickytnz
I'm surprised that no one seems to have connected Swartz's death to that of
Ilya Zhitomirskiy of Diaspora, and the discussions about depression and tech
(admittedly startups) [http://betabeat.com/2011/11/u-cant-haz-sadz-the-hushed-
dange...](http://betabeat.com/2011/11/u-cant-haz-sadz-the-hushed-dangers-of-
startup-depression/). While Swartz's death obviously has the connection to the
horrible MIT/JSTOR situation, both remind us that tech doesn't always take
kindly to those that make a mistake or don't live up to expectations, or pay
enough attention to depression.

~~~
politician
Recent HN discussion on the parallels here:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5051164> (admittedly, not a strong
discussion)

------
mchanson
In my experience at the companies I've worked at in the northeast people tend
to talk about their struggles with mental illness with work folks. I've
started working at a California company the last few years and folks are
pretty open there as well.

I understand this is just my experience and I like to talk about the feeling
side of being human at work (and do) so I may attract this kind of discussion
and folks opening up.

------
tylermauthe
I think stories like this should get more attention

~~~
flipcoder
People would rather blame something with a face (blaming the suicide on his
lawyer, blaming videogame developers or the NRA for mass shootings, etc.)
before admitting that the answer may lie in some science book that was too
boring or dull for them to pick up and read. I'm glad this article actually
addresses the problem directly: mental illness

~~~
jordanb
Yes. Completely agree.

As another example, take Mohamed Bouazizi. He was clearly a very sick man, to
light himself on fire like he did.

But the sensationalist press decided to focus---not on his mental illness,
which was the only thing to blame for his death---but instead on scapegoating
the Tunisian government who rightfully confiscated a few pieces of his
property.

EDIT: I'm afraid people aren't understanding the tone of this comment:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNvi6xG-5Y>

~~~
BrokenPipe
I completely disagree. What Aaron did was fully moral but
partially/potentially illegal (see trespassing maybe).

In my mind, nothing more than a month of social work is the justified response
to his act. I'm sure most people would agree.

However this is not what happened. He faced up to 35 years in prison, he faced
being financially ruined by the case and he faced the option to unwillingly
'force' the people who love him (friends and family) to also face financial
issues to help him fight this case.

This would cause problem in any reasonable person.

Why are you both you and the parent suggesting that it is crazy to kill
yourself ? It is not crazy. Suicide sometimes is the best way out.

I would rather face death than 35 years in prison. I also understand why
someone wouldn't plaid guilty when they are not guilty, in particular if that
still means I have to do up to 6 months in jail.

I heard many times people saying I rather die free than live as a prisoner.

------
maked00
Public efforts regarding Mental Health have been almost completely obliterated
by the 1% in their greedy rush to take everything. MH is at the heart of this
sick young man's tradgedy and the ever more frequent serial killings.

I don't buy all the victim scenarios for this fellow. He was smart, he knew
what he was getting into. He knew attacking the established status quo would
have dire consequences. He had plenty of opportunities to change his path to a
less risky one. He knew going into this that to challenge these people would
bring concrete and powerful counter attacks aimed at him.

What he did not know was how to cope with depression, how and were to get
help, and was too ingrained with the imposed taboos to seek help.

------
Buzaga
I'm part of this culture then because I don't believe in mental illnesses as
defined by psychiatrists. Bring papers, proof and Science and we talk.

<http://arachnoid.com/psychology/myth.html>

~~~
cbs
_Bring papers, proof and Science and we talk._

Why would anyone even take the time to bother? You've already decided that
psychology isn't a sufficiently hard science.

~~~
Buzaga
Because it isn't, science is a strict term... this is a challenge for
psychology/psychiatry and neuroscience(best hopes) as whole and it's not one
or two weirdo proposing it... it's being thrown in it's face and begged for
even by the people ~there~ itself.

Of course there's good willing people there, but there's also the 'Big Pharma'
issue, the 'lets put 4 year olds on drugs' issue, a past of it being used to
reinforce biases(against homosexuals, for slavery, as argument to lock state-
enemies in Russia, Nazi Germany).

Also, normally when it's scientifically proven isn't it like "done, next
question" and then they actually answer the question? They didn't got there
yet it seems. See: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment>

Disclosure: Yes, I know there's situations so extreme need 'anything that
helps', I've seen it in my family. With me, a bipolar 'diagnosis' and drug
prescription got me 4 seizures that could have brought lasting damage, even as
the dosage, the psychiatrist later confessed under my pressure, was already
multiple times lower than what was considered the minimum, but he wouldn't
admit having any responsibility for it, which led me to doing my own research
and finding documented cases of seizures and even deaths as consequence.
Anyway, gave the FU(metaphorically) to this, kept reading, making sure it was
informed/not-in-denial, 3 years, not a problem, but I still have to hear about
how I can't swim, box or "shouldn't even drive", this sort of stuff.

