
Benefits of basing your startup in Scotland - mdhayes
http://www.rookieoven.com/2012/09/05/5-benefits-of-basing-your-startup-in-scotland/
======
nemesisj
We're a startup in Scotland (Edinburgh and Glasgow) -
(<http://www.getadministrate.com>). This post annoyed me b/c I was just about
to post about the advantages I see starting and running a business here :)

The author misses quite a few of the main things that I find great about being
in Scotland, although I do agree with the general thrust.

Some thoughts about Scotland compared with the USA, having previously started
and ran 3 companies there:

\- wages are very cheap here compared to the USA or even the South (England),
and the talent is good.

\- It's easy to market to and service the USA (no huge timezone difference or
language barrier and Americans like the Scottish accent).

\- there are already some incredible tax advantages (low capital gains) for
startups, and more being pushed by the current government.

\- most funding seems to be done by angel syndicates in a public / private
hybrid where both the gov and the angels share risk and reward. I much prefer
the syndicate model to individuals as you get more structure and less hassle.

\- you don't need health insurance for employees, which removes a distraction
and makes your job offer compete on a more level playing field when compared
against a traditional large company

\- the tech community like the author pointed out is really good, particularly
for the size

\- the quality of life here is AMAZING. Can't fully describe the benefits in a
comment.

\- office space is currently very cheap

\- great public transport

\- easy to travel (for business and pleasure) to either EU or USA

~~~
lazyjones
If wages are so cheap, doesn't that usually mean that real talent leaves to
find better jobs in the USA or London or similar places?

Is office space really that cheap in Edinburgh or other large cities?

~~~
nemesisj
Two others already responded but I'll echo them. Office space in the city
centre of Edinburgh and Glasgow is remarkably cheap and plentiful. Living
costs are very low (even in these cities) for what you get compared to the
suburbs in the USA. There is some brain drain, but the culture and quality of
life is the "pull" that the original article was describing. Most Scots who
are brain drained away come back to raise kids or retire.

~~~
mmcnickle
In Edinburgh especially, there is a lot of empty high-quality office space at
the moment. You can negotiate very favourable terms, not limited to long rent-
free periods, well spaced breaks in contracts, and more-office-for-no-extra
type deals.

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martinwnet
It's great to see Scotland mentioned here on HN.

For a country with a rich, celebrated history of inventions
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discove...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries)),
it would be wonderful if we could eventually see a start-up culture like they
have in NY/SF.

Can we please not call it Silicon Glen though?

\--

 _Edit: As a developer from Glasgow I find it hard to find interesting start-
ups. If any happen to be reading, I'd love to hear from you:
<shamelessPlug><http://martinw.net> </shamelessPlug>_

~~~
ktizo
_Can we please not call it Silicon Glen though?_

too late, I'm afraid - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Glen>

~~~
justincormack
That's not where the startups are it dates back many years.

~~~
ktizo
It is generally where the startups are, but only because it also just
describes the area where ~90% of the people in Scotland live.

------
equivalence
I kind of want to agree with most of the points but I think there also has to
be a level of realism as to what kind of business Scotland can accommodate.
For example, it's very unlikely that companies on the scale of Google,
Facebook, Microsoft, etc, could ever grow to their current levels within
Scotland. I think this for a few reasons.

The first is that the VC funding is just not at the same levels as in the US.
Secondly, the talent pool is way to small. As much as we like to think the
presence of 4 universities in Glasgow alone must mean we are overflowing with
people this just isn't the case, you are lucky if you have 40 final year
students in a CS course, and maybe around 15% of them are actually
"excellent", and the numbers have been decreasing over the years. I have at
least 4 friends that were looking to recruit in the last month or so and each
one has been despondent about the quality of the candidates. Then finally you
are going to be in a dog fight with the large financial institutions that
dominate the hiring of new grads. Graduates here are still relatively
conservative in what kind of job they want.

However, where I do think we can excel is in creating tech startups that don't
focus so much on the consumer side of things. There are plenty of hard
problems out there that don't necessarily need 300 million active users to
make some money.

~~~
markmm
Regarding the scaling issue, location is irrelevant nowadays. Anyone can
create a massively scalable system using a laptop and an internet connection
thanks to services like AWS.

I'm sure if a startup looked as if it was becoming a global hist then it would
relocate to the U.S. if it wasn't bought by an existing company there first.

------
rayz
I could say exactly the same about Ireland, especially the west, a great place
to live and the government are very supportive of startups

~~~
diminish
which city particularly in the west?

~~~
Juniper
Well Galway is generally regarded as a good place to live, if you don't mind
lashings of rain.

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maxer
Edinburgh is the place to be, although i live northern ireland- having been
over for the recent fringe and talked to some imigrant workers, they couldnt
be happier.

A nice apartment would run you about £550/$800 a month which is a tad dear but
its a great city with so much going on.

A walk around the museum will show you a place that was built on inventions
and innovation.

only downside is the scottish climate

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brightsize
I'm an American (US) citizen, but OK, let's say I want to do my startup in
Scotland. Is there a new "come to the UK and live here and do a startup for as
long as it takes" visa that I'm not aware of? Country after country (I'm
talking to you Canada) makes all kinds of noises about wanting startups to
take root on their soil, but damned if they're going to let any foreigners
come to help make it happen. So this article would be more aptly titled
"Benefits of basing your startup in Scotland if you're a EU citizen or
permanent resident already otherwise buzz off".

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junto
Another great benefit is deep-fried Mars Bars:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-fried_Mars_bar>

------
aaronbasssett
Scotland also a pretty active tech/meetup community. Living in Glasgow I'm
mostly familiar with the ones which happen here, but if you're interested in
tech startups or want to chat with some fellow geeks you should come along.

Some of my favs are RefreshGla, RookieOven, Techmeetup and Popup Hack (which I
organise)

There are details and more events listed on <http://glasgow2.com/>

~~~
jarofgreen
Seconded, I organise Techmeetup and regularly visit Edinburgh Coffee Morning,
Edinburgh Hacklab, Edinburgh Refresh and many others. I've just been helping
others get 3 new meetups going (PHP, Android & Open Rights Group) so it's
looking great in Edinburgh.

Don't let ppl tell you there is a Edinburgh vs Glasgow divide btw; it's only
50mins via trains that run late at night so it's easy to nip across for the
evening.

Also check out <http://opentechcalendar.co.uk/index.php> \- that has more
Edinburgh events at the moment but it's very early days for this site and more
are being added all the time. (Disclaimer: That's my project.)

~~~
mdhayes
Would have to disagree with you about the divide. To a lot of people (such as
yourself) it's a non-issue however the majority are averse to travelling
across the country (people in both cities). I can understand cost being a
factor with it costing >£25 peak time to travel across the central belt.

The number of people from the capital who have attended RookieOven meetup at
least once over the past year is appalling. I get the feeling it's the same
for TechMeetup, Refresh, Popup Hack and more.

~~~
jarofgreen
Cost is a factor, but if there's any way you catch the 4:30 train it drops to
£12 which is much better. Or the bus has no peak time charge, but it takes
longer.

I guess I'd just like more people to think about it. To many people go
"Glasgow/Edinburgh, eww" and set up a false divide without even considering if
it's possible to head across.

From what I've seen at Techmeetup (both Edinburgh & Glasgow) the number of
travelers is small, but they are there.

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ig1
The article makes the mistake of equating universities with talent pool.
Scotland has a much smaller talent pool of developers than many other
countries and that's a fundamental bottleneck for any startup.

~~~
theallan
I must admit I don't see the problem with equating universities with a talent
pool. Could you elaborate on why that would be wrong? It isn't always true,
but it is a reasonable assumption that graduates are of a decent calibre.

I would fully agree that a university education is not required in order to be
considered talented (some of the most talented people I know didn't attend
university), but at the same time having a degree shows a certain level of
ability. If you have a CS degree, you should at least know your way around a
computer, and the post-graduate research being done by universities is world
leading. Being at the forefront of your field isn't talent, what is? (again
acknowledging that this doesn't make those people product geniuses - a
different form of talent!)

 _Scotland has a much smaller talent pool of developers than many other
countries_

Presumably only because the population is smaller than many other countries?

~~~
justincormack
Indeed and they are very good Universities. Haskell (the Glasgow Haskell
Compiler ghc) was a product of there.

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j_col
Any thoughts on how possible Scottish independence might affect this?

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Hardly at all. At the risk of a flame war (it's a perma-warm topic in the UK)
Scottish Independance will have minimal up or downside when considered
broadly.

There are lots of clever Economists who expalin how different choices will
cost / bring in millions or billions but I have yet to see anything promising
more than 2k per citizen - and to be honest I doubt anyone will move house to
get a 2k pay raise, so the overall effect - minimal

of course some areas of Scotland are long term grindingly poor and recieive
lots of start up credits (they are called enterprise zones) - but they are nit
focused on HN style startups, services and light industry is the bigger
recipien of enterprise grants.

~~~
andyking
_of course some areas of Scotland are long term grindingly poor and recieive
lots of start up credits_

My area in northern England is like this - you can't move for constant
advertisements for "start-up events," in the local newspapers, on the local
radio and so on. It just feels like a way of spending EU money. I don't think
they actually hand out many start-up grants or credits, they just run these
endless "events."

I live in a small town of 8,000, and they even have them every month there,
plugged ceaselessly on the local radio station. It's quite a good way of
propping up the local media with advertising revenue, but I'd be interested to
know how many people actually get anything out of this.

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markmm
I am based and from Scotland (Glasgow). I have a startup that going to be
looking for a first round of funding in the next few months, anyone had
experience with this? Is there an equivalent Kickstarter for the U.K.?

~~~
gordonguthrie
Lots of people - (more in Edinburgh). There is Entrepreneurial Spark in
Glasgow <http://www.entrepreneurial-spark.com/> and Rookie Oven of course.
Scottish Lean Circle in Edinburgh
[https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum...](https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/edleanstartup)

~~~
markmm
These seem to be support groups or clubs rather than places to look for
funding, I was thinking more Angel investors or crowd sourcing.

~~~
gordonguthrie
Yes, but we all know the investors, the angels, who to approach, who is
funding, what you will need to get funded, how to apply to Seedcamp, etc, etc.

Funding isn't just about 'ding, dong, gies some money'.

~~~
markmm
Ah right, I though I just sent a link to my system to a couple of rich dudes
and my bank account would then become overflowing :-p

Joking aside thanks for that, looks like a great way to lplug into the funding
network.

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szymzet
Is the benefit a constant "Error establishing a database connection"?

