

Startup Visas..?   - bluishgreen

I started a discussion here about how to get into proper visa status to start companies in the US. <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3531" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3531</a><p>After much research I have concluded that the situation in the US is too grim.<p>For eg. It takes upto 8 years for certain nationals to get a residential visa. And in that time you are not supposed to change the big company job you are holding. If you do, the clock starts again. If you want a better idea follow this link: <a href="http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=5&#38;Itemid=47" rel="nofollow">http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&#38...</a><p>Anyway, the point of this post is that I wanted to point out that Canada is so much more welcoming. You get a residential visa without even having to hold a job in 1.5 years, and the process is deterministic. And once in Canada you can immediately incorporate. 3 years of staying in Canada will earn you a Canadian passport again by a deterministic process. Apart from nice health care, with the Canadian passport you can enter and exit US without having to apply for a visa.(This is important for me, since many of my friends are here.)<p>This recent post here about Vancouver is very encouraging. <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40054" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40054</a><p>Silicon valley is the best as pg has pointed out in many of his essays. But it is hard for aliens to maintain visa status in the US. <p>I might not be seeing potential problems with Canada. If you understand things better, please leave a comment here.<p>Thanks,
bluishgreen.

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alex_c
>I might not be seeing potential problems with Canada. If you understand
things better, please leave a comment here.

Well, just my two cents as a Canadian citizen:

\- the major cities have a fair share of high-tech companies and workforce.
Finding good talent is hard everywhere, but it should be easier in Canada than
in SF - a lot of good people are probably dying of boredom at a financial
institution or just finished university and are looking south for interesting
jobs, rather than starting their own.

\- cost of living is lower than in SF, but in the major cities it's not MUCH
lower

\- there is a start-up scene, you might just have to look a bit harder

\- from what I'm told, investors are more cautious, money doesn't get thrown
at you

\- health care!

\- you don't get to enjoy the perfect temperatures in the Bay Area

\- all cities are different. Vancouver != Toronto != Montreal, just like San
Francisco != Boston != New York. Do your research.

~~~
bluishgreen
>Vancouver != Toronto != Montreal

But can you give an "equal to" map between US and Canada. Like SF=Vancouver.
New York=Toronto etc. I will find such a map very useful.

~~~
alex_c
Not really. Information I can give you would likely be a lot more vague (and
less accurate?) than what you can research on your own. I guess I'll try
anyway.

Toronto is the largest, and the financial center, but you can't really draw a
parallel to New York, it's a lot slower-paced - San Francisco actually
reminded me a lot of downtown Toronto. You can easily find graduates from the
top two computer science/computer engineering schools in Canada.

Ottawa had a very active tech industry before the dotcom bust, but not much
after. I'm not sure today. Terribly boring city to live in, though.

Montreal would be a good choice for French speakers. There are a number of
large video game studios in Montreal, I can't tell you much about start-ups
there (beyond, say, [http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/22/poll-of-the-
week-4-m...](http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/22/poll-of-the-
week-4-montreal-as-a-startup-and-innovation-hub/) ). Culturally, a very strong
city, there's always something fun going on.

Vancouver is probably the closest to San Francisco in geography and climate, I
didn't know it had a strong start-up scene before I read the article on
montrealtechwatch.com. It's relatively small though, not sure how easy it is
to find talent (on the other hand, it's close to Seattle).

Calgary and Edmonton are booming and have a lot of oil money floating around,
but skilled workers are at a premium.

------
rms
The Canadian Dollar is also going to pass the US Dollar any day now. One of
the main advantages of doing your startup outside of the United States is that
you get to base your worth in a currency that isn't facing impending doom.

~~~
tuukkah
Even if you're located in the US, can't you keep any significant amounts of
money in the currency of your choice though? For any debt it should be good if
the currency loses value. And startup ownership is percentages of future value
instead of some fixed nomination in a currency.

When the value of the US dollar keeps falling, it becomes more and more
difficult for foreign companies to keep their prices low for the US customers.

~~~
rms
All of your points are true and it's especially good to be USD based if you're
debt financed. Most startups intended to grow rapidly are financed with equity
though, not debt.

If you're outside of the USA, it's much easier to keep your money in a foreign
currency. You just go to the ATM and deposit the money instead of having to go
out of your way to maintain a portfolio hedged against the collapse of the
USD.

~~~
tuukkah
Now that I think of it, perhaps the USD going down means the US markets lose
their importance, also in the eyes of the US companies. Their problem would
be, when you're based in the US, it might be difficult to understand
international markets. At least I've yet to see an ATM where you can deposit
money ;-)

~~~
rms
Just about the only thing the USA has that is truly valuable is our
international brands like Coke and Nike. The rest can be duplicated overseas
and I think powerful international brands will emerge eventually, unless we're
already past the age of brands.

I think the peak of US civilization was the first bubble era. After that,
George W Bush and his horrendous economic and imperialist policies combined
with the _worst Congress ever_ have further hastened the decline of America.

Our currency is worth half as much as it was in 1999! It's hard to notice for
the rich, but for young people without money, life is getting harder. If you
don't have an engineering degree or a CS degree+portfolio, there aren't any
jobs without graduate education in something relevant. And good luck paying
for graduate school when your net worth is already -$100,000.

Inflation is creeping up but it's hard to tell because the government doesn't
publish M3 numbers anymore. I just don't see anything that can reverse this
trend and I'd like to get out while I can. If I don't make a good amount of
money soon, I'm afraid of being trapped in America instead of being able to
move overseas and cheaply rebuy America later.

~~~
tuukkah
As a Finn, the only example of a powerful international brand I could directly
come up with was Nokia. Others would probably remember the Japanese and German
cars. Interestingly, there isn't a single Canadian brand in BusinessWeek's top
100:
[http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/top_brands/...](http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/top_brands/index.asp)

But the way you talk about the reality of the US economy sure paints a grim
picture. I can only hope the country finds its place again in the new world
order.

~~~
nickb
I'd like to see how this study was done.,, methodology sucks. Did they even
ask a single Canadain?! There's PLENTY of Canadian brands out there and for
some reason they didn't make a list. I'll just say one: RIM. Why isn't it on
the list?

Let's take a look at this list for just one example...

#22: Merrill Lynch

it's ahead Pepsi and Sony and Nike. Huh?! That MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER! Just
safely ignore this list... their methodology is CRAP.

~~~
tuukkah
So you're saying there should be a lot of Canadian brands on their list?
Should they change the criteria for "global", sort by something else than
"brand value", or have they miscalculated the value of all those Canadian
brands? Here's the target of the "Methodology" link above the table:
[http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_32/b4045421....](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_32/b4045421.htm)

As far as RIM goes, I can only ask if it isn't more of a single product than a
brand worth billions? I can't comment much as Blackberries aren't used in this
corner of the world if they're even available. The local alternative (ie what
people in the management want) must be the Nokia Communicator line of devices.

~~~
nickb
So are you telling me that Merril Lynch is more famous than Pepsi and Nike?!?!

~~~
tuukkah
Generally, you don't build brands to become famous, you build brands to create
value for your customers, you, and your investors.

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nickb
Easier time finding great talent is a big plus. Probably the biggest of all of
the things mentioned here. Silicon Valley's full of great companies and you'll
be competing with some heavy-weights to gain attention of great candidates.
Also, you will most certainly ovepay. Canada does not have such a big problem
with finding great talent.

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frankus
Can you give more details on getting a visa to start a startup in Canada?

I have a potential co-founder just across the border in Vancouver, but I was
under the impression that you need a whole heap of money to get in as an
entrepreneur. Or would you go in under the skilled worker program (er,
programme)?

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mtarifi
You can go read a lot of economical studies trying to answer this one
question: why can not Canadians achieve the same level of entrepreneurial
productivity as the US.

Canada is welcoming as a direct result of limited demand.

The good news is that US is changing the requirements.

~~~
bluishgreen
>The good news is that US is changing the requirements.

May be in 10 years or maybe not. Thats fast for a government! But I didn't
want to wait for 8 years - remember.

