
Being Fit May Be as Good for You as Not Smoking - elorant
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/well/move/being-fit-may-be-as-good-for-you-as-not-smoking.html
======
marricks
People here seem to value fat shaming so I think it’s valuable to mention it
doesn’t help. Reposting a reply I made:

Portugal legalized drugs and made them safer to use and... people were
generally healthier and better off.[1]

People have unhealthy habits because of issues in their life. Poverty, abuse,
mental health issues, lack of access to healthcare and healthy foods.

If you want people to get better you need to stop vilifying them, e.g fat
shaming or war on drugs, and start accepting and helping them. Same for drugs,
same for weight, hell, I’d say it’s the same for many “criminals” too.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal)

~~~
towelr34dy
Have you been to Portugal?

The stigma of a heroin user is strong there.

You know why? Because we don't want heroin users.

I'm a libertarian. 100% in favor of allowing people to own their own body
(i.e. they can put in whatever they want)

Being fat isn't a crime.

There is no war on fatness.

There is simply a stigma.

A stigma to dissuade people. It works. It worked for me. I know other people
who got their shit in gear because they were tired of not getting the respect
they felt they deserve. I come from a hard background.

The Healthy while Fat is just an excuse to want to gain acceptance of
unhealthy behavior.

No it won't work.

Sure, cigarette smokers come from shitty backgrounds (I was one). But getting
looked down on was a major reason for me to quit.

Are there weak people who will forever smoke and feel bad?

Yes.

I have no answer for them.

But I know we can't start accpeting cigarette smokers. Or more people will
smoke.

That is a totally different thing than using VIOLENCE to make it so someone
can't access their vice.

I 100% support people engaging in vices.

I also think we should as a society be more accepting of vices.

Because they have good and bad. Some of the best chefs I've known are fat.
Some of my favorite music was made on heroin.

~~~
Jarb
Maybe I'm misreading what you wrote, but how do you societally accept a vice
while at the same time stigmatizing it?

~~~
towelr34dy
Because we all have vices.

Should we accept them openly and be proud of having vices? No.

Should we be tolerant of other people's vices? Yes.

Basically: having vices is bad, having vices doesn't make you bad. Vices
should not be a source of pride.

I would agree that the HAES movement does get at something that needs fixing:
America dehumanizes people. It's hard to explain, but having lived in other
countries, I can say there is a dehumanizing element here against those that
are deemed less (druggies, ex-cons... and to a lesser extent those who are
overweight)

------
kris-s
In aggregate it seems pretty clear the science is in for living a healthy
life: get enough sleep, exercise, don't eat sugar.

It's obviously more complicated than that, especially at the individual level,
but if you aren't hitting those three you're missing out on some serious
quality of life improvements (both in the short term and long term).

~~~
sambull
Can't obsesses over the get enough sleep and exercise thing. Even more
important working a sedentary office job mixed with a always alert/ops style
job (some of us may be familiar with).

Realizing when to let a problem be organizational rather than a personal sleep
deficit is also key in those positions. They'll say your a rock-star for
trading your sleep and life for their bottom line. It's debt impounding
interest and unless your luckier than a power-ball winner they won't be there
when that payment is due.

------
Fricken
A thing that bothers me is that in the popular consciousness the defacto way
to get fit is to hit a 24 hour fitness gym to count to ten alone under
flourescent lights. You're not very likely at all to engender a lifelong
fitness habit doing that.

Do things that engage you emotionally, mentally, and socially. Do things that
are fun, and adventurous. Compete, even if it's at a beer league level. You
need more robust and tangible fitness goals than looking good in the mirror in
6 months.

Fitness gyms hate you. They want your annual fee and then they don't want to
see you again until next year. It you're trapped in the mindset that keeping
fit is some kind of chore that you have to add on to an already busy life,
you're doing it wrong. When you see people in their 70s who are still kicking
ass, it's because using their body is at the centre of their life, not at the
margins.

~~~
konschubert
On top of that, isn't reducing calory intake much more important than the
little amount of calories burned in the gym?

Of course there are plenty of reasons to do sports. But my understanding was
that for losing weight, it's mostly about how much you eat.

------
honkycat
People do have different metabolisms. But, the "genetically obese" thing is
not true. That does not mean we should put the blame 100% on these people,
however.

I encourage you to have empathy for these people. Because what it takes: Going
to the gym, going hiking, getting physical activity, is not available for a
lot of people. It is a huge privilege to live somewhere AND HAVE THE TIME to
do these activities.

Most people live paycheck to paycheck, a gym membership is a meal they cannot
put on the table. Their houses are small and working out inside of them is
miserable. Or they are working multiple jobs and they choose not to spend the
2 hours of free-time they have a day working out. Who can really blame them?

Outside there could be violence, or the constant threat of being harassed by
the police. Or, it could just simply be a paved-over wasteland where the
community did not think that maybe people will want somewhere to walk around
for a while.

My anecdote: I used to live in Chicago, and I was a serial "join the gym and
never work out" person. I got pretty overweight at 190 lbs, 5'10\. I moved to
Portland, Oregon. And something interesting happened: Portland is smaller, and
getting to the gym means meandering down a few tree-lined lanes until I reach
a huge converted warehouse that now serves as a gym. The gyms I had seen in
Chicago were squat-ceiling converted office space. I found going to the gym
MUCH EASIER, due to the quality of the gym and the environment around me.

~~~
oftenwrong
Eating less saves both time and money. You can save money by buying less food.
You can save time by shopping for food less, preparing food less, eating less,
and cleaning up less. You can eat less at home, at work, at the bus stop -
anywhere, and while doing any activity. Anybody can eat less, no matter what
their life is like.

~~~
timbit42
Eating less takes will-power. It takes more will-power than many people have.
What they need is to understand which foods they can eat that will reduce
their desire to eat as much and as often.

------
vivekd
The interesting part of this for me is their conclusion that that there is no
such thing as being too fit in terms of longevity and health. This is
surprising because a lot of athletic and fitness endeavours I've seen stress
the importance of getting adequate rest days and not overworking. For example,
in weight lifting circles, people often stress that lifting every day can lead
to injuries and negative health effects. I wonder if this article calls that
into question or perhaps they are just overlooking that the most "highly fit"
people also take adequate rest days as a part of their routine.

It's probably also likely that the more highly fit someone is, the more likely
they are to have other factors that increase longevity - ie. it means they
have the leisure time to exercise and maintain a high level of fitness, it
means they likely watch what they eat etc. I wonder how much of this is direct
causation vs correlation.

~~~
paulcole
Working out to exhaustion constantly doesn't make you more fit.

Rest days are key to improving fitness. This doesn't conflict with "there is
no such thing as being too fit in terms of longevity and health."

------
gammateam
Since the title obviously doesn't make sense

The article's summary of the study said that being unfit is as bad for you as
not smoking. Thats very different than just replacing every word with the
negation.

Its almost like a machine learning algorithm made this title as the most
attention getting group of words

------
parliament32
So if I'm fit but I smoke they'll balance each other out, right?

~~~
lihaciudaniel
Like Arnold... Yes

------
matchbok
Such a shame that the "healthy at any size" BS is so popular these days.
Literally killing people.

~~~
Afton
HAES is not BS. Here's the deal. For lots and lots of people, being not fat is
very very hard. So hard, that even though there is enormous social pressure
that they've had basically from ~12 years old to however old they are, they
still haven't managed to become non-fat for any significant length of time.

HAES is a reaction that says "What if we accepted that some people are just
going to be fat, and then tried to come up with ways of being as healthy as
possible given the circumstances". You may not like the packaging that HAES
comes wrapped up in, and the most vocal proponents of it are often the least
interested in making it palatable _to you_. But it's not BS.

Consider that there is essentially nothing that medical science has for people
who are chronically fat except a gastric sleeve. Shit is hard, yo.

~~~
towelr34dy
Let's reconsider this position using some other example:

Healthy on Heroin. HOH

HOH is not BS. Here's the deal. For lots and lots of people, being not
addicted to heroin is very very hard. So hard, that even though there is
enormous social pressure that they've had basically from ~18 years old to
however old they are, they still haven't managed to become clean for any
significant length of time.

HOH is a reaction that says "What if we accepted that some people are just
going to be heroin addicts, and then tried to come up with ways of being as
healthy as possible given the circumstances". You may not like the packaging
that HOH comes wrapped up in, and the most vocal proponents of it are often
the least interested in making it palatable to you. But it's not BS.

Consider that there is essentially nothing that medical science has for people
who are chronically addicted to heroin except a detox. Shit is hard, yo.

~~~
bitcrusher
Let's reconsider this position using some other example:

Such a shame that the "healthy at any genetic condition" BS is so popular
these days. Literally killing people.

~~~
firethief
Genetic conditions cannot (currently) be changed, so not trying to change them
is a reasonable approach.

------
_underflow_
I remember seeing a similar, slightly-less-semantically-awkward title being
posted recently.

Something along the lines of "Not Exercising just as bad for you as Smoking"

------
aaaaaaaaaab
But the being rich beats both in terms of life expectancy.

------
newnewpdro
Life is immeasurably more enjoyable as a fit, healthy person. Even if it had
zero impact on longevity, it's an obvious win.

~~~
mattlondon
Any data on that?

I am not convinced that it is "immeasurably" so. Being fit is not going to
change some of the most unpleasant things in a lot of people's lives. A
commute is still a commute. A bereavement is still a bereavement. A boring job
is still a boring job. Debts are still debts etc etc.

Being fit is not going to change any of those, so I am not sure how life gets
immeasurably more enjoyable if you are as fit as an Olympian but your partner
just died and you've got to go work in the Amazon Fulfilment center 90 minutes
bus ride away to pay for your medical/student debts and still just about have
enough left over to pay for basic food and heating. But hey I can run 100m in
under 10 seconds so _wow_ my life is immeasurably better as a
result!</sarcasm>

~~~
lurker_primo
> Being fit is not going to change some of the most unpleasant things in a lot
> of people's lives. A commute is still a commute. A bereavement is still a
> bereavement. A boring job is still a boring job. Debts are still debts etc
> etc.

I was almost obese (BMI: 29.8). I'm on my path to being at a normal weight
(BMI: 25.5). I would say it is immeasurably better. I can walk up stairs
without losing my breath. My knees don't creak. Random aches and pains are
gone. I'm generally healthier (less common cold etc). I can participate in
many activities such as sports without tiring myself and taking a couple of
days to recover. I can go on longer hikes and see many things which were quite
impossible before. I much more comfortable at all times now. All the negative
things add up in a person's mind. A commute + shitty health is worse than just
a commute. If I'm working in a fulfillment center, I'm not uncomfortable while
exerting physical effort.

