
Toyota Supra gets new life: sports car debuts at 2019 Detroit auto show - hakemsalah
https://www.emttime.com/2019/01/toyota-supra-gets-new-life-totally-lit.html
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mulmen
It’s not a Supra. It’s not even a Toyota. It’s an ok BMW. Nothing that makes
the Supra appealing or especially elevated it to legendary car culture status
is true of this new “Supra”. It’s extremely disappointing and a slap in the
face to any fan of true Toyota sports cars.

Akio Toyoda claims to be a “car guy” but after the massive disappointment of
the FR-S and Scion in general it is clear he’s entirely clueless.

Toyota is a disappointing shell of itself, this car is another example in a
long line of soulless non-Toyota letdowns.

~~~
Sendotsh
I've been a huge Toyota fan since the late 80s. I've owned multiple 1970s
Corollas, 80s and 90s Celicas, Hiluxes, the list goes on. All the way up to
mid 2000s.

This Supra is an abomination. They go on about how it's "for the fans", which
just rubs it in even worse. If they'd just made a bigger 86 with a turbo V6 I
would've put money down the minute they took preorders. Instead I'm just upset
that they absolutely destroyed the name of one of the most iconic cars of my
generation by outsourcing it to BMW and whitelabeling a boring overpriced
midlife crisis car.

Every single Toyota car nut I know is insulted, and you just have to look at
ANY car forum to see how badly this entire thing is being received.

For most people, a car is the second biggest possession in their life after a
house. For many it's THE biggest possession. It's not unfair for people to be
attached to brands they've grown up with, and cars they've worked their asses
off and poured literally blood sweat and tears into.

Look how upset people are over a missing headphone jack. Now imagine if the
iPhone 11 was a rebadged Android phone made entirely by Samsung with an Apple
sticker on the back, not even running iOS.

Toyota really screwed this one.

~~~
Cookingboy
>Every single Toyota car nut I know is insulted, and you just have to look at
ANY car forum to see how badly this entire thing is being received.

I don't know, it's fairly well received on Reddit, and I personally like it
even though I'm a big fan of the A80 Supra. Let's be honest, enthusiasts are
_never_ happy about anything, they all want something that's 500hp that also
weights 2000lbs and comes straight from the factory with the price of a 3
years old used Miata.

Is this the same type of car as the A80 Supra? Of course not, but all signs
pointing toward it being a quite promising _sports car_ , and all the early
reviews are quite positives as well.

The kind of people who make the loudest noise on the forums aren't the type
who would be putting money down buying a new $80k GT-R caliber Supra anyway.

For $50k starting price, you get a good looking 2 seater that's relatively
light, agile, 4.1s 0-60 and very nicely equipped with the latest BMW cabin
tech and Toyota styling, I think this thing will sell like hotcakes.

~~~
rasz
And BMW Z4 is a car for those people. Looking at the sale numbers says it all,
people you cite as enthusiastic about it dont buy cars.

~~~
Cookingboy
What sales number? This car isn't even on sale yet.

The Z4 is a convertible that costs $15k more. The people who complain the
loudest about this car are the ones who don't buy new sports cars.

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crazynick4
From what I understand, the 3rd/4th gen Supras were such a draw because of the
engine. It was an I6 which meant that it could withstand higher RPMs more
easily than a V6 (all cylinders moving along the same axis) and it was a cast
iron block (no aluminum). This made it exceedingly more capable of
withstanding high loads than other engines. Apparently, just by installing a
larger turbo and a better camshaft, along with tuning some of the valve
timings, it was possible to get 700+hp out of the engine. 1000+ was common and
I've heard of people going over 1500HP.

I don't know much about the new engine but I'm assuming this won't be possible
here?

~~~
mulmen
The original Supra was a Celica trim level. The car that pushed the Supra to
legendary status in car cicrles was the 4th generation and to a lesser extent
the 3rd.

~~~
crazynick4
Sorry, that's the one I meant, edited for clarity

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GhostVII
Not a fan of all the fake vents and curves being added to cars nowadays. Seems
like car designs used to be a lot cleaner, now they have so much going on it
looks too busy.

~~~
ngngngng
This is still why the VW golf is my favorite car. Understated is
underappreciated.

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IgorPartola
This is how I know I need to get out more: one of the available colors is
Absolute Zero White, and my brain went “but #000000 is black!” and not “snow
is white”.

~~~
sk5t
Just think in the subtractive color model, rather than computer-screen-
additive...

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sk5t
Very puzzling styling--like a more swoopy 370Z with some Z4/M-coupe haunches
and ugly modern BMW interior. Which is a strange way to go, after the iconic
smooth lines, workmanlike cockpit, and basket handle spoiler of the Mk4.

I think Toyota and BMW are nuts to think this model will draw any 718 Cayman
buyers. Who is seriously going to pass on the Porsche PDK (or manual
transmission) and mid-rear engine for a front engine and torque converter?

It's nice that Toyota is trying, yet baffling that they came up with some sort
of "German fixed-roof autobox Miata" to do it.

~~~
esoterae
It's a Z4. Chassis and engine.

~~~
mulmen
And interior. And factory.

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r00fus
Not EV, not Hybrid, not even really made by Toyota (Z4 rebadge). I struggle to
understand why this vehicle is relevant other than perhaps as a symbol of the
ICE sportscar nadir.

~~~
Cookingboy
>Not EV, not Hybrid,

Jesus the EV crusaders are annoying. Thank god this car isn't an EV or hybrid,
and I say that as a Model 3 owner.

>I struggle to understand why this vehicle is relevant other than perhaps as a
symbol of the ICE sportscar nadir.

Obviously you struggle to understand a market that you have neither
appreciation nor understanding of. Hint hint: people buy sports cars to have
fun in their own ways, and currently there are no hybrid/EVs that's light and
agile enough to be called a true sports car.

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RickJWagner
I'm a car nut and love cars. I like the idea of a new Supra, but I don't think
it'll last long. The days of the sports coupe are gone. (i.e. the Accord Coupe
was a great car, but nobody wanted one.) 'Muscle cars' are an exception, but
these differ from sporty coupes.

I predict a short run.

Edit: Others are correctly pointing out that the BRZ/86 twins sell well, but
these are small cars, not bigger semi-luxury couples ala the BMW 8.

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schuke
Interior, infotainment and powertrain all look very BMW. Reliability will be
interesting to see in a few years.

~~~
quake
Well, it is co-designed with BMW after all. The new Supra shares a lot with
the BMW Z4

~~~
mulmen
It’s not co-designed. It’s a BMW. Designed by BMW, built by BMW. Toyota
provides some badges and money. Nothing about this car is a “Toyota”.

~~~
Cookingboy
Toyota did their own exterior styling and did all their own steering, chassis
and suspension tuning.

It's at heart a BMW, but saying there is nothing Toyota is quite an
exaggeration.

~~~
mulmen
It’s a modified BMW. It’s not an actual Toyota like previous Supras.

It has no soul of a Toyota. It’s just a base trim level of a BMW with
different financing options and a different support network.

By the way, if I’m buying a BMW why would I want Toyota of all companies to
modify the steering and suspension? I’d rather have a Toyota with BMW steering
and suspension, not this abomination.

“I like my 3 series but I wish it handled more like a Camry” - nobody, ever.

~~~
Cookingboy
Wait.. in one sentence you claim Toyota's "soul" is something good to desire
for, and in another sentence you claim it just means the car will handle like
Camry.

I drive a F80 M3 right now, and I very much would love to see how this car
drives since I love, love the GT86 suspension/steering tuning. In fact the
GT86 has better steering than my M3, so if this Supra is like that it would be
very attractive to me.

If anything, a car with BMW drivetrain and Toyota motorsport's
chassis/suspension/steering is exactly what a lot of people would want these
days, since BMW has a big lead in engine tech (especially turbo 6) and Toyota
did such a spectacular job with GT-86's chassis/suspension/steering. Hell, if
BMW supplied their turbo 4 cylinder to the GT86 imagine the success it would
have had.

~~~
m-ee
Did Toyota actually do the 86's chassis and suspension or was that Subaru?

~~~
Cookingboy
The 86's chassis and suspension tuning? Absolutely Toyota.

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dhnsmakala
From the side, it looks like it has been in an accident already. I think the
side indents are too prominent.

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cylinder
Eh looks like a Viper.

Nothing beats MKIV in looks.

~~~
taneq
I think the MK3 has aged better than the MK4 tbh... but agreed that this thing
just looks like a MK4 had a baby with a Mustang or something.

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angled
speedhunters' take: [http://www.speedhunters.com/2019/01/wheres-my-3jz-
bro-a90-su...](http://www.speedhunters.com/2019/01/wheres-my-3jz-
bro-a90-supra/)

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taurath
It’s interesting how many people fetishize the supra as a huge tuner car...
and most car pundits I’ve seen have been saying this will be too. The thing
costs just about as much as a BMW 340i - even in the “wink wink probably swap
this” 4 cylinder configuration coming later it just seems too expensive for
“regular” people to mess with like the mk4s, which only got popular after fast
& furious came out.

~~~
sk5t
The Mk3/Mk4 Supra was the beneficiary of Japan's golden age--and solid
overengineering--in the 1990s. Stout iron block, strong transmission, not too
many electrical doodads. Sort of like 1980s German cars, before the Germans
got carried away with fussy sensors and featureitis. It seems a little
unlikely that either nation is poised to have a good run like that anytime
soon.

~~~
IgorPartola
I mean for these prices you are within reach of a Tesla. A Tesla with better
0-60 times.

~~~
sk5t
Likely that a lot of folks (y.t. included) won't want to own a Tesla until
it's really clear that the company is set up to service broken stuff over the
long run. It'll be interesting to see how the Taycan does, and go from there.

~~~
mulmen
Ok so why buy a BMW that has to be fixed by Toyota mechanics? What worse
scenario can you even imagine for car maintenance?

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benjohnson
No such a grand idea in my opinion: Toyota style with BMW reliability.

~~~
rasz
Lets hope its not going to be E60 M5 reliable.

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uberduper
It looks like a Miata with one of those awful s2000 fastback hard tops!

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rasz
First Subaru, now BMW, cant wait for new Land Cruiser being rebadged TATA
Discovery.

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barnaclejive
2020 Toyota Supra vs. 2019 BMW Z4: One big difference is horsepower
[https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/14/2020-toyota-supra-
vs-201...](https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/14/2020-toyota-supra-
vs-2019-bmw-z4-comparison/)

> the BMW version of this BMW engine makes 382 horsepower, while the Toyota-
> tuned version produces only 335 horses.

> Toyota is slapping a $50,920 starting price on the Supra, while the Z4 with
> the equivalent I6 starts at $64,695.

> BMW always lets folks option its cars up to the gills, and Toyota is
> offering a Premium grade and Launch Edition at the start itself. Even with
> the special Launch Edition, the Supra is still less, though, at $56,180. The
> four-cylinder Z4 is the Supra's price equivalent right now, each starting at
> just over $50,000.

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shitgoose
beautiful car.

~~~
karmakaze
I wouldn't quite say that. Sort of like an Alfa Romeo if it were Japanese.

~~~
mulmen
Japanese styling is always best when they steal it from the British. See the
240z (Jaguar E-Type) or any 1970s Honda UJM (Triumph).

All modern Toyotas are revolting. The new Prius is offensive to look at.

~~~
RickJWagner
Ah, the 240z. Great looking car!

