
Snowmobiler finds family of five stuck in frozen wilderness - colinprince
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/family-rescued-snowmobile-manitoba-1.5439399
======
graton
Leaving the car was probably not a good idea. The ones who left the car were
lucky to be found alive.

I still remember this story where the husband left the car to find help.

[https://www.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2007/11/kimfamily....](https://www.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2007/11/kimfamily.html)

It is possible to survive a pretty long time in a car as it provides the
shelter you need.

From the article: The Kim family -- parents James and Kati and children
Penelope, 4, and Sabine, 7 months -- disappeared Nov. 25, 2006 as they drove
to Gold Beach from Merlin, just north of Grants Pass off Interstate 5. Kati
Kim, 30, and her daughters were found Dec. 4 with the car after being stuck in
the snow for nine days with few supplies. James Kim, 35, was found dead two
days later in a creek. He had walked more than 16 miles in the cold and snow
in a futile effort to get help.

~~~
tzs
On the other hand, there was Jerry William McDonald who got stranded a few
years after the Kim family, also in Oregon [1]. He did stay with the car, and
died of starvation and/or hypothermia after 70 days in the car.

At some point trying to walk out, as bad as that is, gives you a better
overall chance of surviving than waiting for rescue. The trick is figuring out
when that is.

I've heard of only one incident where the stranded people had no trouble with
making that decision. They were stranded in a well stocked RV, in a place they
knew they were very likely to be found except by a search party specifically
looking for them. They had satellite radio and TV, and so were able to watch
the news reports about the search, and see when the search was called off, and
so it was now either walk out or try to survive the entire winter there. They
successfully had someone walk out.

[1] [https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-
news/2011/05/ma...](https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-
news/2011/05/man_found_dead_in_truck_after_getting_stuck_in_snow_spending_nearly_70_days_in_remote_linn_county.html)

~~~
mike_d
I used to do Search and Rescue and I can absolutely tell you in all cases the
best thing to do when lost is to stay put. Unless you are in immediate danger,
or can move to a high point to get a cell signal but remain within visual
range of your car/tent/etc. don't leave.

SAR teams only have the resources to search a relatively small area (dozens of
square miles at most), so if you start wandering off from your point last
known (which we determine based on interviews with people with knowledge of
your plans, tire tracks, open gates, cell phone pings, and other clues) you
are removing yourself from the area where professional searchers and first
responders are looking for you.

Your time should be spent trying to create a signal. Make a small fire that
you can keep under control and burn rubber/plastic to create dark smoke. Lay
out reflective materials. Whistle, clap, or yell every 15 minutes. Keep
listening for rescuers calling out.

~~~
daveFNbuck
Your justification assumes you're being searched for. If you learn that the
search has been called off, is it still always better to stay put?

~~~
AstralStorm
A generic signal like smoke could work even when explicit search is called
off.

In this specific case, broken down car has gasoline and battery and even good
fuel source (foams will a lot of smoke and thanks to fire retardant will burn
long), making a fire is quite trivial with such means.

------
winrid
When I broke my talus (ankle bone) in the middle of the snowy forest I
couldn't walk. I hadn't seen anyone all day and thought I was screwed. Then a
few minutes later a guy shows up on a snowmobile.

I guess angels ride snowmobiles.

~~~
gonzo
I think you mean angels.

~~~
dang
We've fixed the typo in the GP.

~~~
Deimorz
You edited a user's comment to fix a minor typo? Is that something you do
often?

~~~
zaroth
I think they have an AI that detects puns and sets off a bat signal.

------
protomyth
Never leave the car unless you put it in the river or lake. Buy some emergency
blankets like the Coghlans 8235[1]. These things are small, cheap, and work.
Buy a bunch, they are little bigger than a pack of cards. Have an actual
emergency kit in your car. If you are in the north a lot, then make sure to
have some kind of food in the car. Also, the modern rechargeable electric
lantern is a great thing. Do not run the car unless the exhaust is clear.

When the wind dies down, put one of those blankets on the roof[2] (use you
favorite method to attach (e.g. bungee cords)). Also, a grain shovel works a
whole lot better than most snow shovels.

1) [https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coghlans-8235-Emergency-
Blanket/2...](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coghlans-8235-Emergency-
Blanket/23543585)

2) those blankets are super reflective and will get noticed

~~~
duxup
On top of that advice, when I travel in winter, I just throw boots (with good
socks) and extra winter stuff in a bin (gloves, scarfs etc).

Basically it is "what would I put on if I were to go outside and dig my car
out and it was ultra cold"...and what would I put on the kids ... everyone's
stuff just gets thrown in.

Just throwing it all in a bin is handy for quick packing, and if I don't need
it quick unpacking.

That's on top of the usual emergency kit, blankets, etc.

------
Zhenya
This reminds me of one of the best reads on the internet:

The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans

[https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-
hu...](https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-
death-valley-germans/)

The OP story however, has a much happier ending.

~~~
nemo1618
Reminds me of a family that got lost while crossing the Sahara:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/sahar...](https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/sahara/tamanras.htm)

------
duxup
Generally speaking the route to a major city is usually pretty much to head to
a big main road and follow that.

I know these things happen but I have to wonder when they noticed a lack of
other traffic, smaller roads, strange roads, on their way to a big city.

~~~
notatoad
Especially in Canada. The directions are basically to get on the highway, and
stay on it for 1000km

~~~
CosmicShadow
In this case, it's actually 3000km on Highway 1, that's it, the main highway
in Canada and pretty much the only real highway to get anywhere across
Saskatchewan to South Western Ontario.

They would have no reason to leave this highway unless maybe they wanted to
take the shorter route through the states, but I have no clue how they could
have ended up where they were in the middle of nowhere not even on a road.
Glad they were ok, but jeez, common sense or look at a map at least once.

~~~
ggcdn
Having driven through northern BC quite a bit, there’s been dozens of times
where a rockslide / logging truck rollover / construction has caused a detour
off the highway and down some remote roads. Not saying that’s what happened to
them, but rather that it’s best to be prepared because you never know what
will happen.

~~~
CosmicShadow
Haha yeah, makes sense over there, but they were in the prairies, the flatest
area in Canada! I guess the highway could have got blocked somehow and you
have to take a backroad detour, but you'd probably be following a stream of
traffic as well in that case.

Always agree it's best to look at a map to get a feel for the route or at
least have one ready.

------
ttul
I didn’t get a chance to read the article because there is a malicious ad
being served from the CBC website that re-directed me to a fake SHAW Cable web
site.

~~~
na85
Serious question: Why on earth would you not use an ad blocker?

~~~
alephnan
Cause I’m on my phone

~~~
eftokay83
Depending on the phone (works on Android):

Firefox and ublock

~~~
james-skemp
There's also Brave. I've taken to using it for my news browsing on my Android
device.

------
Ididntdothis
Stories like this make me think that the money I am spending on my Garmin
Inreach is maybe not a waste.

~~~
sliken
Or just take the multiple choice test, get a ham radio license, and buy a $30
radio and a $10 antenna.

~~~
tuzakey
I'm an extra and a VE. I take a radio with me on all of my back country
camping trips and have a solar+battery repeater set up in my 4x4. I've ended
up many places where neither radio could get out to anyone simplex and no
repeaters were in range. Amateur radio works great when you have a
communications plan and know you'll be in range (like when you're working with
a group) but for small groups/solo back country and new areas I'll be picking
up either a PLB or an inreach for this season. Others mentioned HF, I don't
think you can expect to be able to string a wire dipole up and transit if you
break your ankle or something ~ assuming the solar conditions allow you to get
out anyway.

Also I meet lots of people who have taken the test and bought the $30 radio
but don't know how to use it. Practice, practice, practice. I look at group
camping trips as an opportunity to practice wilderness protocol and usually
come back with a bunch of notes on what worked/didn't.

~~~
themodelplumber
There's a fairly recent story about a ham using satellite communications when
he and his son got their vehicle stuck in mud out in the wilderness. I can't
find the link at the moment, but they were practiced at it beforehand and I'm
guessing very happy that they were.

------
Mikeb85
How did they not have warm clothing? It was -30 degrees in Calgary last week.
Like all week.

And how do you wind up so far off the Trans Canada? Then again, drivers in
Calgary are the worst..

------
heeen2
Could have ended badly like this grim incident that was linked here before
[https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-
hu...](https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-
death-valley-germans/)

------
honkycat
I'm willing to bet these people were following automated directions.

My family and I were once driving from Chicago to my home town 6 hours to the
southwest.

A blizzard kicked up, and we were driving according to Google directions. It
took us off of the main roads, and we found ourselves on unpopulated gravel
roads in the middle of nowhere Illinois totally FUCKED of we had crashed.

I've seen it over and over again. You trying to get somewhere. There are clear
normal routes to that place. And then Google directions start to direct you to
these fucking country roads to try and finesse some kind of "faster route" for
you without even prompting you for a route change. It just directs you into
some dumb fuck route that no one would ever take in the right mind.

I've learned to watch Google directions like a hawk. I was once driving up
from downstate, and it started to take us off the main road. I told my friend
to stop and turn around, get back on the main highway. If we had taken the
route Google recommended, we would have gone hours out of our way on gravel
country roads to get around a bit of minor traffic on the main road.

~~~
adrianmonk
Seems like Google (etc.) could add a "avoid roads that aren't well-traveled"
feature with the data they already have.

The data they use to figure out whether traffic is light or heavy (GPS
location, speed, heading, path, etc.) could also be used to figure out whether
roads are well-traveled.

And they could even throw in month or season (or weather) as a variable. If
the road is well-traveled in the summer but not in the winter, maybe there's a
reason.

This could be useful not only for winter but also for other issues like people
who are driving an unreliable car or are low on gas (or not good about filling
it up).

~~~
nitrogen
During the last major fire season in California the traffic was incredibly
slow on the main interstate I was on. Maps suggested a detour on a side
highway because nobody was taking it. But it turned out that nobody was taking
it because it was literally on fire, so I had to find my way back to the
interstate.

~~~
adrianmonk
That one is going to be a little trickier to detect!

I guess you could do some real time analysis and note that the number of
people passing through this or that segment has dropped suspiciously below
what it averages for that day of the week, time of day, etc.

Which actually might be useful for other types of road closures like
construction, so maybe not an unreasonable goal to aim for.

~~~
nitrogen
It seems like it would be worth including data from weather and emergency
services. Another gripe I have is that it seems like pedestrian data is
inadvertently used to determine road speeds in dense urban areas, so a block
that is literally gridlocked for an hour will still be recommended by maps.

------
AtlasLion
this is why I am happy I got to do some bush craft holidays. The family had
shelter and by the looks of it, lots of trees to start a fire for warmth.

------
almost_usual
Don’t drive in the snow without a winch.

~~~
s0rce
I'd probably start with good snow tires, 12V compressor so you can air down,
traction boards a shovel. Winches are expensive and need to be mounted to your
truck or to a hitch receiver. Better advice in this case was to drive on the
highway.

~~~
war1025
This is the type of winch that came to mind for me. [1] Basically something
you can attach to your tow hook and then around a tree or pole or whatever
else to inch your way out of a jam.

Which isn't to say that the things you listed aren't also worth having along.

[1] [https://www.harborfreight.com/1200-lb-capacity-cable-
puller-...](https://www.harborfreight.com/1200-lb-capacity-cable-
puller-30131.html)

~~~
s0rce
Oh, a come along, makes sense. I thought you meant a dedicated 12V winch, ex.
Warn.

------
s0rce
Maybe trying to take a detour like these guys
([https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-
xpm-1993-01-07-mn-949-st...](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-
xpm-1993-01-07-mn-949-story.html)) Ended up making a movie about that family.
I think back in that situation the highway was closed due to snow.

------
slac
Calgary to Toronto is a no brainer. Every Canadian learns about the
TransCanada highway. I seriously wonder about their claims.

~~~
moltar
Exactly what I was thinking. How can you get lost on a such an easy road?

They were 60km off the main road. That didn’t give them any clues? Like
worsening road condition. A road between two major cities of mud and ice?
That’s just kinda common sense.

~~~
crooked-v
I'm reminded of the woman who kept driving for 810 miles, complete with
sleeping overnight in her car, for what was supposed to be a 90-mile trip to a
neighboring city. [https://www.cnet.com/news/gps-sends-belgian-woman-to-
croatia...](https://www.cnet.com/news/gps-sends-belgian-woman-to-
croatia-810-miles-out-of-her-way/)

------
cdoxsey
Check out the 2010 movie frozen about skiers getting stuck on a lift.

Not the best movie, but I love this idea of just how close we live to total
disaster... And all it takes is a few small missteps. We think we have a lot
more control over our lives than we really do.

