
Amazon Has Swallowed Downtown Seattle - vanderfluge
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-06-29/prime-real-estate-amazon-has-swallowed-downtown-seattle
======
erickhill
To be honest, the section of the city Amazon has "swallowed" was grass and
weed filled parking lots 5 years ago as well as broken down buildings. While
the construction has been a drag for drivers in that area, the city looks and
feels so much better, IMO, due to their investments.

Now, has Amazon invested enough in infrastructure to help the swelling
population they are partly to blame for increasing (not to mention lack of
houses, housing prices, student class sizes, etc.)? No, not really - but
that's the price of being one of the fastest growing cities with the lowest
unemployment in the country. But in terms of the city buildings and
neighborhood - so much better.

~~~
troydavis
This, many times over. Yes, Seattle's South Lake Union now looks a lot like
downtown San Jose. It's a completely different world from 10 years ago,
though, and so much better.

We missed out on a chance to have a giant urban park ("Seattle Commons":
[http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&...](http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=8252)),
but credit to Paul Allen for executing an unbelievable plan B.

[Bloomberg's article focuses more on Amazon's new HQ in downtown Seattle, but
Amazon's impact today is mostly in South Lake Union. Background:
[http://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/amazon-
will...](http://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/amazon-will-add-
troy-block-towers-to-its-seattle-office-empire/)]

(Source: Born in Seattle and have lived within ~0.5 miles for 10+ years)

~~~
dluan
I dunno, a giant green park within the city like SF's golden gate park or
NYC's central park sounds really incredible.

~~~
__derek__
You don't like Discovery Park, Washington Park, Volunteer Park, Golden
Gardens, Carkeek Park, or Lincoln Park?

~~~
vonkow
They're all lovely parks, but none are within walking distance of downtown.

~~~
__derek__
We may have different definitions of walking distance from downtown because I
think that both Volunteer and Washington Park fall in that range, although I
understand that they are farther than a hypothetical South Lake Union park. On
the other hand, I would note that neither Golden Gate Park nor Central Park
are near their respective downtowns.

~~~
vonkow
I don't really disagree, but it's a 50 minute (uphill) walk from Pike Place to
Volunteer Park, whereas it's 15 minutes to the edge of SLU. I don't really
mind walking an hour, but many people do.

Golden Gate is a little out of the way, Central Park is super accessible by
subway.

~~~
__derek__
That's fair. Alternatively, it's a 35-minute bus ride.

------
placeybordeaux
The irony is that Seattle as a city is already extremely connected with
nature. From their office they should be able to see Puget sound, Ranier and
the cascades, not to mention lake union. There is a nice park a 15 minute walk
away from their offices, and the city it's self has a surprising amount of
trees. The hikes around Seattle are amazing and plenty within an hour drive. I
work in downtown Seattle and have coworkers that have a ferry on their
commute.

That all being said, I find the project fascinating and it fits in very well
with the space needle, the balls should be glimpsable from the (useless)
monorail.

------
yunong
"one of the best recruiting tools Amazon has is if people come interview on a
nice day, and people are sitting outside having lunch from a food truck."

Have they been to Seattle during the months of November to June?

~~~
techsupporter
I have (I live in Seattle, but don't work for Amazon) and the weather is
pretty great roughly nine months out of the year. Late November to February
are dreary but spring, summer, and most of fall make up for it. Sorry for
leaking the secret, fellow Seattleites.

~~~
nbclark
Depends on how you define great weather. It doesn't rain nearly as much as
people assume (lived there 6 years), but most days have some light drizzle.
For a tennis player, that is emotionally taxing (is it going to rain? should
we make plans).

~~~
djsumdog
I moved to Seattle and it's not the rain that bothers me (it's really not as
bad as people say, even during the winter months), it's the cold. .. or rather
lack of hot.

It never gets above 26C here. There are plenty of other cities like this
(London just had a record heatwave .. of 29C; seriously that's too hot for
them. People were passing out in the toobs. Wellington, another coastal city,
has people bitching when it gets up to 27C as too hot), but the difference is
they do get warm .. for an extended period of time. From May through August
(opposite in Wellington cause hemispheres), you know you can put your jacket
away. You don't need it. At worst it's gonna be a little refrigerator like if
you stay out too late.

In Seattle, it could be mid-June and you might need that jacket...at noon, and
then the next day you'll be burning up.

I miss seasons.

~~~
Symbiote
29°C is not a record heatwave for London, that's only 5°C higher than the
average high for July.

"On average London will see 31 days above 25 °C each year, and 4.2 days above
30.0 °C every year."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate)

------
johan_larson
Do you need specially-designed places to be creative?

Off-hand, the places that were really wildly creative during the 20th century
were pretty standard offices and workshops, weren't they? Think of Xerox PARC,
Bell Labs, and Bletchley Park. They all accomplished wild things. But the
buildings were unremarkable.

~~~
SaberTail
I've read that the Bell Labs offices were designed in order to promote
collaboration. It was laid out such that there'd be long hallways between the
offices and things like restrooms and stairs, so that there'd be greater
chances of colleagues bumping into each other and talking about work.

I don't have a copy of The Idea Factory[1], where I recall reading this handy,
but that's my best recollection.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Idea-Factory-Great-American-
Innovatio...](https://www.amazon.com/Idea-Factory-Great-American-
Innovation/dp/0143122797)

~~~
gohrt
And now we put everyone in open-floorplan barns to "promote colllaboration",
with nowhere for people to go back and work at when they are done
collaborating.

"Hallway conversations" have become "constant conversations"

~~~
johan_larson
I have two theories of why open-plan offices are popular.

The first is simply that it's cheaper to have an open office. Modern office
buildings tend to have large spaces -- nearly whole floors -- that are open,
but can be subdivided. But subdivision costs money. Paying carpenters to put
up walls isn't cheap, and even cube systems can be surprisingly expensive.
Plus managers are accountable for costs. So they choose the cheap option.

The second is that open office plans are good for communication and
collaboration, though less good for individual silent work. Managers are
essentially all about communication and collaboration, which is why they love
these open offices. Unfortunately while programmers need to both communicate
and work alone, they need to communicate and collaborate much less than
managers do, which is why office plans that are selected by managers make
things difficult for the programmers.

~~~
milkey_mouse
My cynical side says a third reason is that open offices make it very easy for
managers/bosses/anyone who wants to see if you're working or not.

------
jp57
"His survey of Amazon workers indicated they wanted cheap burgers and beer,
which encouraged him to break from his traditional model and open the Brave
Horse Tavern with a wide assortment of local brews, pub fare and long tables
for family-style seating. "I'm sure glad we did that survey, because we might
not have gone with this concept otherwise," Douglas said."

Cheap burgers and beer! A 1/4 lb cheeseburger + fries at Brave Horse is
$13.50. Beer prices are not listed on the online menu. Presumably if you have
to ask you can't afford it.

~~~
nostrebored
Compared to other Tom Douglas restaurants that's a bit cheaper than usual.
Brave Horse is also worse. You can expect to pay $4-9 for a beer depending on
what you're getting. Not exactly cheap, but not expensive either, especially
for food around a business area.

------
bko
> Amazon's is the most ambitious gambit of them all. When its spheres and
> three surrounding towers are completed, the company will have 10 million
> square feet of office space in Seattle, more than 15 percent of the city's
> inventory, on a campus that occupies more than 10 square blocks.

15% of a city's commercial inventory seems like a lot. Any comparable levels
to companies in other cities? Is this typical for one company to own/lease
such a large percentage of commercial real-estate or is the statistic
misleading?

[edit] removed duplicate quote

~~~
L_Rahman
The real information here is that 10 square blocks is enough to be 15 percent
of the city's inventory.

Seattle is tiny. So is SF. I'm amused by how small the core of all of the West
coast cities seem to be when people try to convince me that there's dense
urban living to be found outside of the East Coast.

~~~
gohrt
Density and size are different dimensions.

------
audleman
Interesting that this article has a clear bias that Amazon is making Seattle
better, starting from

> Inevitably, the company's growing presence is making it a scapegoat for
> common urban woes such as traffic jams and rising rents

> New, luxury, one-bedroom apartments packed with amenities that appeal to
> young urban tech workers fetch upwards of $4,000 a month, putting them out
> of reach of the Starbucks barista.

This makes it sound like only luxury apartments are becoming expensive and
baristas are upset because they feel entitled to that privilege. Rent at all
levels is raising dramatically, 12% per year on Capitol Hill where I live.
[http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2014/09/seattle-rents-
risi...](http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2014/09/seattle-rents-rising-
faster-than-any-other-major-u-s-city-even-faster-on-capitol-hill/)

A lot of my friends work odd jobs as book editors, community managers, etc.
and they are being priced out of the area. This is a real issue that warrants
attention, unless you want everyone to move out of your neighborhoods except
the well-to-do.

> To some long-time Seattleites, the new South Lake Union feels sterile, like
> an open-air mall. Wide sidewalks are devoid of cigarette butts and shattered
> beer bottles. Street people banging bongos and strumming acoustic guitars
> with mangy dogs in tow, a common sight in Seattle’s retail and financial
> districts, are conspicuously absent.

So the complainers are lamenting the lack of "beer bottles and cigarette
butts," nobody "banging bongos" on the streets? Apparently failing to notice
the "wide sidewalks?" What's wrong with them?

South Lake Union feel sterile because it's jammed between Denny, Mercer, I-5,
and 99, four major throughways. Nobody has tried to urbanize that area for a
reason. More power to Amazon for building it up though, and I hope it gains a
neighborhood feel over time. I'm a bit skeptical; it feels to overwhelming,
noisy, and overly corporate, cut off from the rest of the city.

> Meanwhile, the Space Needle's owners have complained that all the towers
> being thrown up by Amazon and developers hoping to house its workers are
> crowding out views of the aging tourist attraction.

I guess it's important that our iconic Space Needle is "aging." Yeah, nobody
wants to see old stuff!

~~~
seizethecheese
The article is called "Amazon Has Swallowed Downtown Seattle" do you really
think there's a bias _towards_ Amazon here? Your evidence is basically that
the passages detailing the downsides of Amazon's expansion include silver
linings.

I mean, the article could have been called "Amazon Turns Blighted Blocks Into
Shining Urbanity."

~~~
audleman
> I mean, the article could have been called "Amazon Turns Blighted Blocks
> Into Shining Urbanity." Fair point

------
sbierwagen

      In a story on Arthur Sulzberger, Mark Bowden wrote in 
      Vanity Fair, "Whether owing to hubris or sheer 
      distraction, the erection of a new headquarters often 
      seems to spell trouble for corporations."
    

[http://www.businessinsider.com/poorly-timed-
headquarters-200...](http://www.businessinsider.com/poorly-timed-
headquarters-2009-11)

    
    
      Anecdotal experience tends to lead many people in the 
      technology industry to suggest that growth (or newly 
      “sexy”) companies rapidly head into difficulties at 
      about the same time as they move from the seedy garages 
      and crumbling buildings they started in to shiny new 
      office buildings.
    

[http://www.ipglossary.com/glossary/new-headquartersoffice-
sy...](http://www.ipglossary.com/glossary/new-headquartersoffice-syndrome-
shiny/)

~~~
Johnny555
For example, Zynga's office building is worth more than the entire company:

[https://medium.com/halting-problem/zyngas-offices-now-
worth-...](https://medium.com/halting-problem/zyngas-offices-now-worth-more-
than-zynga-the-company-47a704d48249)

~~~
dgbmeow
This is a satirical blog. Please take a second to look at the rest of its
content.

~~~
Johnny555
I first saw it reported in SFGate, they've since retracted the story:

 _Editor 's note: SFGATE has removed this story after reviewing Zynga's
company valuation. The initial report was based on the enterprise value of
Zynga compared to its cash reserves and property value. The latest company
financial data as of May 6th, 2016, however, indicates an overall market
valuation of $2.2 billion, with cash reserves of $987 million, putting its
enterprise value at $1.21 billion, which is significantly more than the
projected value of the company's real estate holdings at 8th and Townsend
Streets in San Francisco._

------
Animats
The "Community Banana Stand" in one picture is amusing. As if someone were
growing bananas within a thousand miles.

~~~
undersuit
Actually it's just a short drive away.
[https://www.facebook.com/CWUBiologyGreenhouse/photos/pcb.102...](https://www.facebook.com/CWUBiologyGreenhouse/photos/pcb.1021036491266254/1021036407932929/?type=3)

Sure probably not the same bananas, but maybe one day it will be cheaper to
grow in a local greenhouse or greenwall than to ship them from another
hemisphere.

------
climber_mac
I spent some time in Seattle last summer. I was really impressed by the LEED
certifications that a lot of the buildings in the downtown area have; most of
them are certified gold - the spaces seem really nice for working!

------
thefastlane
sorry this is offtopic but: scrolling, scrolling . . . oh great, where did my
article go and what am i suddenly reading now?

reminds me of jankyscroll
([https://github.com/benzweig/jankyscroll](https://github.com/benzweig/jankyscroll))

------
peterwwillis
Nothing says connecting with nature more than being surrounded by concrete and
steel.

~~~
DarkTree
Ok, well if you are in a city you are most likely already surrounded by
concrete and steel. The idea of these structures is to displace some of that
concrete with a green area. What's a better solution for you?

~~~
peterwwillis
Well you could design them like all the cities around the world whose primary
design focus isn't vehicle traffic and tightly packed skyscrapers. You could
design parks and walkways and bike lanes that are for people, and not
businesses. You could design buildings with no exterior walls. You could
design smaller buildings and space them farther from each other. You could
encourage the development of small business outside mega-cities to grow
community that doesn't require moving to an urban jungle. Or, you know,
anything other than continuing to add concrete and steel and then patching it
with artificial greenery to make it seem less oppressive. But i'm probably
crazy.

------
LogicFailsMe
All this and all the free bananas you can eat!

~~~
madelinecameron
50,000 chimps all banging on keyboards will produce good things.

