
Ask HN: How will it go for Raspberry Pi in the coming years? - DrNuke
In the consumer and the small business markets, we are having computing power being more and more shifted from desktops or laptops to tablets and smartphones, we are even seeing full computing watches these days. In your opinion, what about DIY, IoT, small robotics, etc. and the generalist barebone computers they use, like Arduino, Raspberry, etc.? Will they become more and more powerful for a new race to bigger, maybe embedded systems or will they stay small, open, very cheap and marginally energy-hungry?
======
nimbius
These things are a god-send for the auto industry in my opinion...specifically
professional drivers.

as a lead automotive mechanic for a semi truck shop, I bought about 5 pi's for
our techs. We use them for reading OBD diagnostics and doing resets or long-
term vehicle observation for certain problems. Theyre cheaper than most of the
commercial rent-seeking computer tools we use and if a tech accidentally
crushes one, its cheaper than dirt to replace.

We even have a customer who keeps long term backups of log books and GPS data
on a pi running off her cigar lighter, as well as her favorite audio books.
Trucking companies dont care if you whine the most about your miles, but send
them a ZIP file of 6 years of logs and the CEO himself will write you a pay
raise. best of all, she tucks the pi in her shirt when she switches trucks.
Try doing that with a qualcomm or a laptop!

~~~
IloveHN84
What kind of software are you using for reading OBD?

~~~
teh_klev
This looks like the kinda setup:

[https://www.cowfishstudios.com/blog/obd-pi-raspberry-pi-
disp...](https://www.cowfishstudios.com/blog/obd-pi-raspberry-pi-displaying-
car-diagnostics-obd-ii-data-on-an-aftermarket-head-unit)

Also a search for _" reading OBD diagnostics with raspberry pi"_ brings back
some promising results.

------
mangecoeur
Most of the comments so far seem to have missed the point of the RPi
specifically, which is that it was always intended more as an educational tool
than commercial solution. The idea of the RPi foundation is to promote
experimenting and hacking by selling a board cheap enough that you don't care
too much if you ruin it.

This was explicitly a response to the rise of smartphones(/smart-whatevers)
which turned computing into magic by sealing off all the components and
preventing any hands-on work - students were enrolling in to computer science
degrees with nearly no understanding of how a computer is fundamentally put
together.

There is no reason for RPi to change from their very successful mission - they
will keep putting out the best hardware they can squeeze into their fixed
price point.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
The original point of the RPi is meaningless if the majority of the use cases
are something completely different.

For me, doing embedded consulting, the Pi is a cheap, simple way to get a
touchscreen and/or network capability without jumping through the hoops of
Arduino add-ons.

~~~
kingosticks
I don't think that's true when the Rpi is entirely under the control of a non-
profit. They don't care how many you buy, you are only further funding their
goal and so far that goal has trumped everything/anyone else. Which I think is
great.

------
bjt2n3904
I'm more of a Beagle Bone person, so I hope you don't mind me answering the
question from that standpoint.

The sadness I have about the bone is that it is a means to an end. Purchase
bone, insert into host board. Voila, IoT. It gets you to an MVP really fast,
but limits your design to that form factor. Migrating away is difficult.

The Arduino, at least, served as training wheels. The end goal was to design
an atmega328 into your circuit board, not glue another pcb on top. (Just
remembering, there is some progress here with the pocket beagle... Though it
does raise supply chain concerns.)

Also unlike the bone, the Arduino opened up a pathway for many other
architectures and families of microprocessor, lowering the barrier to entry
for 32 bit processors and ARM, keeping the platform relevant.

The bone CPU is getting a little long in the tooth, and there doesn't seem to
be a path forward to the next generation of processors in the same SWaP C
space. There are others, but the cost or power consumption tripples. The bone
is at a real sweet point for price and capabilities. I'd love to see a lower
power generation with some fixes to annoying problems (like the RTC).

In their defense, there are two or three orders of magnitude more complexity
to an ARM SoC than an 8bit micro. The bone community really is on point with
making a stable platform with regular releases, especially given the
complexity of supporting a SoC+peripherals with the kernel, device tree,
U-Boot, Debian, etc.

~~~
bduhan
You mentioned Pocket Beagle, but did you know the OSD335x[1] is readily
available on Mouser and DigiKey? I certainly would have specified one instead
of a BBB if it was available during our product development cycle.

[1] [https://octavosystems.com/](https://octavosystems.com/)

------
black_puppydog
From the interviews I've heard with the founder, rPi set a price point first,
then developed the best hackable computer they could to match it. If they keep
up with that (as they have so far) then expect something more powerful and
possibly smaller at the same price. Although I think the rPi zero is probably
at the lower end of how small you can go without making tinkering cumbersome
with all those gpio pins and such. although, people also like ATTiny, so who
knows :)

~~~
VectorLock
The PiZeroW is hits such an amazing triple point of price/functionality/size
that although I love the Tinker Pro for coming close in size/price and the
ease of Arduino programming for simple things the PiZeroW just gives you SO
MUCH functionality.

~~~
chrisshroba
Slightly off topic - The one-per-customer policy on the PiZero and PiZeroW
seems very limiting to me for someone who would like to develop more than one
pi-based hobbyist project (or multi-pi projects like a cheap kubernetes
cluster to play around with that stack). Does anyone know if there are plans
to drop this restriction anytime soon, or do hobbyists just need to accept
that to do multiple projects they need to buy the more expensive models? (Not
that I can complain that $25-$35 is expensive!)

~~~
tmm
I don't think it's one per customer. More like one per transaction. I buy mine
from Microcenter and probably have 10 by now.

------
l1k
Their competitor, Libre Computer, has mused that given their investment in the
graphics stack, they might be headed in the GPGPU / AI direction. Think
Raspberry Pis that you can cluster together for deep learning, or individual
boards that kids can tinker with to learn about AI. The blog post also
predicted the 3B+ fairly exactly:

[https://libre.computer/2017/12/06/raspberry-
pi-3x-raspberry-...](https://libre.computer/2017/12/06/raspberry-
pi-3x-raspberry-pi-4-broadcom-and-qualcomm/)

Money quote:

> We expect the Raspberry Pi 4 to be based on a new Broadcom SoC based on
> Cortex-A55 built on < 28nm fabrication process. We can call this BCM2839 and
> it will feature the much alluded to VC5 GPU and a new form factor. Since
> that hardware is more than two years away, it is difficult to predict the
> direction of the industry and thus the exact specifications. We expect such
> a Raspberry Pi 4 board to utilize dual 32-bit LPDDR3 or LPDDR4 to cope with
> the bandwidth requirements of OpenCL and neural network acceleration. The
> exact release date for such a specimen can vary dramatically depending on
> Broadcom’s tapeout schedule. It should be relatively soon if the Raspberry
> Pi Foundation expects to release hardware in 2019.

~~~
majewsky
Please avoid code snippets for blockquotes. It's very annoying to read this
with the `overflow-x: scroll` that HN's CSS adds (particularly on mobile).
Just put a ">" in front of the paragraph, like so:

> We expect the Raspberry Pi 4 to be based on a new Broadcom SoC based on
> Cortex-A55 built on < 28nm fabrication process. We can call this BCM2839 and
> it will feature the much alluded to VC5 GPU and a new form factor. Since
> that hardware is more than two years away, it is difficult to predict the
> direction of the industry and thus the exact specifications. We expect such
> a Raspberry Pi 4 board to utilize dual 32-bit LPDDR3 or LPDDR4 to cope with
> the bandwidth requirements of OpenCL and neural network acceleration. The
> exact release date for such a specimen can vary dramatically depending on
> Broadcom’s tapeout schedule. It should be relatively soon if the Raspberry
> Pi Foundation expects to release hardware in 2019.

~~~
3pt14159
I still struggle as to why this is still a thing on HN after all these years.
Just link to a gist if you have code you want to share that is wrapping too
long.

------
joemi
The difference between Arduino and Raspberry Pi is already one where the
Arduino (at least the basic, most popular(?) model) is just a board supporting
a small, highly energy efficient microcontroller that you program in C, while
the Raspberry Pi (even the Zero) comparatively uses a ton of power and runs a
full Linux distro. That difference is huge, and seems to already be in the two
different directions you're postulating.

That said, Arduino (the company) has released more boards with faster, more
powerful processors over the years, and I wonder if they'll ever give up the
flagship Uno model. I sure hope not, since as bjt2n3904 mentioned, it's a
great stepping stone for small, cheap, efficient microcontrollers. It's kind
of like learning a programming language and realizing how that knowledge
applies to most/all other programming languages, whereas so much of the RPi is
abstracted behind Linux.

------
douglaswlance
Raspberry Pi is for hacking. It's not really a commercial platform. You can
technically use it as such, but it's more cost-effective to design your own
boards at that point.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Depends.

I shipped an RPi-based project a few months ago that was a one-off. Could have
been done with Arduino, but it was far easier (read: less expensive to
develop) on a Pi because it needed a touchscreen UI. I'm unlikely to ever
build more than one more unit like it.

I'm currently quoting a design I'd like to use the Pi on because it will need
to be connected to WiFi or Ethernet and I doubt I will build more than 20 or
so. No way in hell I could make back the board design cost at that quantity.
Were it not for the networking, it wouldn't even need a CPU!

RPi and BeagleBone hit a sweet spot for a certain type & quantity of designs
that nothing else (of that popularity) meets.

~~~
stevekemp
For wifi-connected IoT thing I really like the ESP8266 chip. You can get it in
a small form-factor board such as the "Wemos Mini D1" for approximately €3.0.

Programmable via the arduino-studio, widely-supported, and very reliable. I've
built a bunch of projects with them, and couldn't be happier.

------
paraplegic
If the availability of the pi zero W is any indication I expect trouble ahead.
Trying to buy the zero W in bulk through channels is practically impossible,
and the vendors sell them only in kit bundles at many times MSRP at 10$.

~~~
elfchief
Instead of the pi zero, check out the CHIP Pro
([https://getchip.com/pages/chippro](https://getchip.com/pages/chippro)) ... a
little more expensive, but available in quantity and designed to be pick &
placed (or hand-soldered!), runs linux, and does most of the things a pi can
do (sans video)

~~~
Tepix
Stay away from CHIP, they appear to be bankrupt and/or fraudulent, they took
my money and never delivered.

~~~
mbu
Fwiw I don't think it's even possible to order anything from them at the
moment. I can't figure out how to (but also have heard other stories of late
or non-delivery). Seems like a cool product until you realise it doesn't
exist.

~~~
b5
They withdrew sales of the original C.H.I.P. months and months ago, without
really explaining why. It's quite puzzling, because I ordered four in November
2015 and got them as promised about six months later. I guess maybe they made
an initial batch, fulfilled that, then just ran out of steam and haven't made
any more? It's disappointing to hear other people haven't received theirs.

~~~
elfchief
Huh, weird. I ordered some CHIP Pros and dev boards in February last year, and
got them in ~2 weeks. I haven't ordered from them since, so maybe they went
defunct or something. I dunno. That's too bad. :(

------
mikece
I think the future is only going to get brighter for Raspberry Pi because its
niche is as a hacker's machine. It's so inexpensive and versatile for putting
together proofs of concept and I think that's where it's real value lies. If
you can show a solid working prototype of something on a Pi then the
assumption is that a dedicated hardware solution will run even faster...
assuming you don't just make a custom case and mounting set for your ad hoc
solution and call it good. What I think would kill Raspberry Pi is trying to
make it more advanced and powerful than it needs to be, trying to make it a
full powered computer rather than a hacker's delight.

------
adrianN
Hopefully it will become more open and less reliant on binary blobs.

------
noonespecial
"MAX PER CUSTOMER: 1"

It really doesn't matter where else they "go" until they fix that right there.

(Why? Because on my workbench right now is _the_ pi, instead of _a_ pi; and
that makes all the difference.)

~~~
fhood
Do they still enforce that? When I was working with Pi's a few years back I
never had any trouble getting 5 or 6 at a time.

~~~
nottorp
I had trouble getting more than one zero at a time when it was new. Maybe it's
still the same in some places.

------
davelnewton
I'm not sure I understand the question. Of course they'll become more powerful
--that's what happens. They'll stay focused on what they're good at.

------
adruinooob
The specs are always going to get better. For me it's all about physical size
for the Pi. Given say 10 years... what would you imagine the smallest form
factor you can get the Pi functionality into for the same cost.

------
8bitben
I would bet we'll see a version with an integrated SIM card, hopping on the
IoT-anywhere train. Twilio was a big first mover with their Twilio mobile
service, and I can see people deploying rPi's and the like to more out-of-home
applications.

~~~
tomjuggler
Orange Pi have one, the Orange Pi 2G-IOT. It's really cheap, might be worth
checking out. Supposedly runs Android or Linux.

------
jdietrich
The rPI mostly failed in its original mission as an educational tool. In
practice, it proved too complex and fragile to use as a microcontroller but
not powerful enough to substitute for a desktop PC. A lot of important lessons
were learned and put into practice in the BBC Micro:Bit project. For teaching
basic programming and electronics, a dinky little Cortex M0+ with a few LEDs
and IO pins makes far more sense than a repurposed mobile phone chipset.

[http://microbit.org/](http://microbit.org/)

rPI has spawned a whole ecosystem of hacker-friendly hardware. Like Arduino,
it generated demand for a particular form-factor - a lot of people bought rPIs
simply because they were cool and cheap, then figured out how they could be
useful.

The rPI has clearly moved towards being more powerful and power-hungry, with
the latest model drawing about twice the power under load than the original.
Documentation and kernel support remain a sticking point, especially for the
off-brand PIalikes with Chinese chipsets.

The development of these boards is really dictated by the rest of the market.
Nobody is spinning silicon specifically for dev boards, so they'll continue to
use whatever cheap chips are on the market. A lot will depend on how well the
foundries cope with <14nm process nodes.

------
segmondy
They are very powerful right now, how much powerful do you wish for them? What
I like about them is CHEAP, lower energy use. So long as they maintain that,
then it's all good. I bought 6 pi zeros with wifi, $5 each.

------
wiradikusuma
I wish I could make use of those small computers better, but so far my main
use case is for xbmc for my dumb TV, and I'm loving it.

------
trumped
Hopefully USB3 will come to the RPi... It would make it more useful as a file
server.

~~~
xd1936
And get the USB and Ethernet onto separate buses

~~~
Rjevski
Maybe just add USB-C with PCI-Express lanes in there. This would allow
Ethernet or anything else to be plugged into that should it be needed.

~~~
franciscop
I wanted this as well; from what I read from the forums, the chip does not
support it so it'd need to either switch the chip or add another one, going
way beyond the price point. Hopefully the integration for new chips becomes
better and there's more demand so that it becomes a reality.

