
Ask HN: Best Resources to Learn Japanese? - simonebrunozzi
I have decided to learn some basic Japanese, but I am a bit frustrated by the material you can find online; most things leave room for interpretation (e.g. Hiragana, one textbook starts with 46 characters, then add others; another mentions 62, and I&#x27;m not sure where the 16 left come from.).<p>I guess, being an engineer, I prefer a specific approach to learning a language.<p>I also tend to hate the stupid online apps that pretend you are as smart as a snail and take forever to teach you anything, plus their freemium model means you are constantly spammed to sign up for the paid version.<p>Have you been successful at learning Japanese? If so, any good suggestion?
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Kelamir
> Have you been successful at learning Japanese?

So far I got good at kanji, and I know about 2000 words. It's enough to enjoy
reading stuff like "Welcome to the NHK".

> If so, any good suggestion?

You might want to start with learning about Spaced Repetition:

1\. [https://ncase.me/remember/](https://ncase.me/remember/)

2\. [https://www.gwern.net/Spaced-repetition](https://www.gwern.net/Spaced-
repetition)

For further reading see links provided by Gwern. Then, specific to Anki:

1\.
[https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html](https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html)

2\.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz60qTP2Gx0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz60qTP2Gx0)

Those tools will help to retain what you memorize. Further, see
[https://massimmersionapproach.com/](https://massimmersionapproach.com/) for
guidance on language learning. It focuses on immersion, that's, reading books,
listening to stuff, etc. I got good at English by means of immersion, reading
The Way Of Kings and other awesome books like that, and now with the
systematic approach from Mass Immersion Approach it goes even better than
before.

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oftenwrong
I studied Japanese for around two years independently before visiting Japan
(for only a few months).

During that preparation I had no conversation partners, and focused on
vocabulary, reading and listening. Like many, I had difficulty learning to
read. It was a slog. Additionally, I found that my low reading level was a
barrier to finding Japanese content I could read for fun (as opposed to boring
textbook dialogue).

Actually having real conversations in Japan, even with my incredibly-broken
Japanese, was far more effective and far more enjoyable than any of the
learning methods I had used prior. Not surprising, is it? That is how humans
learn language naturally, after all. Japanese people are friendly in general,
and quite willing to engage foreigners in conversation, even if your speaking
ability is very low. Even my reading ability grew as well by simple immersion.

If I were to return to Japanese study:

1\. I would make an effort to be in Japan. There is no substitute for being in
the land where the language is used. If that is not possible, I would attempt
to find a conversation partner in my country or online.

2\. I would skip the difficult and less-rewarding reading and writing
initially, and focus exclusively on conversation until I achieved a decent
level of speaking and listening. To me, it would not be so bad to be
illiterate-but-conversational. Later on, I could attempt literacy.

I never achieve fluency, so maybe my advice is not worth taking. I gave up on
Japanese because, given my other choices and obligations, I cannot live in
Japan, and I do not live where there are many Japanese speakers. It would not
be a useful language for me to learn.

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jim-jim-jim
If I could do it all again, I'd use Anki right from the beginning. Once you do
SRS, you won't go back to reviewing things linearly. Other apps like Duolingo,
Memrise, etc are just neutered versions of this algorithm that make their
money wasting your time.

I'd probably work through the Genki textbook series until it introduces kana.
Then download an Anki deck for those and memorize them. Then keep working
through Genki alongside a basic (N5 level) vocab deck. If you want to read
something other than a textbook, White Rabbit Press has a great series of
graded readers. Those are specifically targeted at adult learners of
Japanese—way saner than reading actual Japanese kids' books.

After getting a solid grammar/vocab foundation through that combo, I'd
recommend working through Heisig's "Remembering the Kanji." It's a
controversial allocation of resources, but probably the single most useful
"hack" I used when studying Japanese. Completing that (and grinding more
advanced vocab decks) will leave you in a good place to read normal media and
learn naturally.

I suggest cramming the Shin Kanzen Master series for all grammar/exercises
after that (N3-N1).

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durbutter
Background: I've been studying Japanese for about 20 years, starting in grade
school. Self-studied through high school, took Japanese in college and spent a
semester in Tokyo at a Japanese language school.

What worked for me was grabbing raw (physical) manga (something from Shonen
Jump, they have furigana over the kanji), a English-Japanese dictionary, a
print out of hiragana/katakana, and a notebook. I then started to slowly and
painstakingly translate the manga, first getting the hiragana sounded out;
memorizing hiragana/katakana as I went. I wrote down characters I didn't know.
I looked them up. I would translate a volume of manga in about a week.

Those exercises helped cement foundational characters, vocabulary, and grammar
without having to use a computer. I was able to go into college and skip the
first 2 semesters of Japanese just by slowly translating my favorite manga.
This might not work for you, but it certainly worked for me.

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new299
There are 46 basic Hiragana characters. No idea where 62 would come from.

I found one-to-one lessons quite useful after I’d reached a certain stage. I
have found that I don’t retain information learned from study apps. In
particular, writing out Kanji seems to help me memorize them better than
flashcard apps. Watching TV shows in Japanese, looking up words has been
helpful. But I’m far from fluent.

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akg_67
Two popular Japanese grammar books among beginner adult learners are Minna no
Nihongo (popular within Japan) and Genki (popular outside Japan and among
English speakers) series.

Pimsleur Japanese audio series is a good start if your interest is listening
and speaking Japanese.

The writing and reading system is made up of Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji.

Why do you want to learn Japanese? Answer to this question will be the primary
driver on deciding an appropriate learning strategy.

Review the starter guide in wiki and beginner sticky threads at
[https://www.reddit.com/r/learnjapanese](https://www.reddit.com/r/learnjapanese)

You can find inexpensive Online tutors on iTalk.

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mydongle
[https://djtguide.neocities.org/guide.html](https://djtguide.neocities.org/guide.html)

This may be of interest

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gas9S9zw3P9c
First, you should be clear what your goal is. "Learning Japanese" is
ambiguous. For example, I know many people who passed the JLPT N1 exam, but
cannot have a simple conversation with a native and have a horrible accent
nobody can understand. It's clear they've just "hacked" the exam by memorizing
stuff. And that's totally fine if that's the goal to e.g. get a job or a visa.
And I know people who are absolutely fluent in conversation, but would never
pass an N3 exam and cannot read simple articles. My point is that these are
very different skills that need a different approach. What do you want? What
is your end goal?

Then, everyone learns differently, so there are no generic "best resources". I
don't know if this works for you, but I can tell you what worked for me. For
each of the step below, use Anki [0] or any other SRS system to memorize
things.

1\. Start with a formal textbook like Elementary Japanese (that's what I used)
or Genki. This will give you a curriculum for the basics and you don't need to
worry about what to learn next. Simply following these textbooks will bring
you to a lower intermediate level (JLPT N4 to N3).

2\. Do something like "Remember the Kanji" [1] to memorize more characters and
get a feeling for them. There are many variations on this you can Google. You
can do this in parallel with step 1 too. Learning Kanji in isolation is IMO
overrated and not super useful, but just having the familiarity will pay
dividends later.

3\. This IMO is the tough part. You are now ~lower-intermediate level. You are
past beginner books, but probably not good enough to read real-world stuff.
For me, it was a mix of resources here. Find people to practice with, listen
to podcasts like JapanesePod, read more advanced textbooks, read some online
websites you are interested in, etc. I don't have a good answer on how to get
past this level. Also, if your goal is to speak conversational JP you really
need to talk to people here because so far you've only read textbooks.

4\. Once you get to something like ~N2 Level, just immerse yourself while you
keep adding stuff to Anki. Do you like videogames (like me)? Just play them in
Japanese. Like movies/anime? Watch in Japanese. Tech news? Read in Japanese
with browser plugins. Really, just do whatever you enjoy, but do it in
Japanese. It will be hard at first, but you'll get used to it.

5\. If your goal is to pass an exam (like N1), get books specific to that
exam.

[0] [https://apps.ankiweb.net/](https://apps.ankiweb.net/)

[1] [https://kanji.koohii.com/](https://kanji.koohii.com/)

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lbeltrame
Personally, but I started studying it ~12 years ago (in 2008), I had to shell
out for some courses, at least at the beginning, because the material is kind
of fragmented.

As some other posters mentioned, you have to start consuming a bit of material
in the language once you get acquainted enough.

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11001100
I like the 24/7 Youtube Podcast to learn Japanese. They introduce the basics
and even go through everyday activities in a video, such as ordering a bus
ticket.

[https://youtu.be/wU_OSPWe5sU](https://youtu.be/wU_OSPWe5sU)

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Garvey
I haven't learnt Japanese though I did start... But to get a grounding in
Italian before moving there, I did use Michel Thomas CDs and would highly
recommend giving them a go.

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morninglight
Seriously, unless you intend to spend several years in Japan, don't waste your
time.

If you do plan on going native, find a girlfriend who likes you but has no
desire to learn english. You will thank me later.

~~~
lbeltrame
> Seriously, unless you intend to spend several years in Japan, don't waste
> your time.

Why not?

~~~
morninglight
From my very long experience, it made the learning expeditious, natural and
much more fun.

In the meantime, find a copy of Jack Seward's "Japanese in Action", and commit
it to memory. It is the most honest book about learning the Japanese language
that has ever been written.
[http://www.trussel.com/jap/jbooks01.htm#49](http://www.trussel.com/jap/jbooks01.htm#49)

Seward died in 2010, but the man had extraordinary insight.
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2010/11/19/national/jack-s...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2010/11/19/national/jack-
seward-leading-expert-on-japan-dies/)

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sgakuin
I am not succesful yet, but I am watching the Japanese From Zero series on
youtube and for kanji I am using the Wani Kani website.

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hackerman123469
Japanese Pod 101, Remembering The Kanji and Genki

