

Ask HN: Is it realistic to go from zero to freelance rails dev in 3 months? - ebaysucks

Hi,<p>Could experienced developers please tell me whether it's realistic to become a productive freelance developer in 3 months of full time study and practice?<p>The goal would be to good enough to bill $25/30 hour on odesk.com for building a site from scratch to finish (architecture + code + design).<p>Other than conceptual knowledge from interacting with freelance developers (OO, MVC, ...) I know nothing wrt developing (coding) applications.<p>Please find below what I plan to learn over the next 3 months:<p>1. Ruby
- Pragprog.com: Learn to program
- RubyLearning.com: Core Ruby
- Pragprog.com: PickAxe
- RubyLearning.com: Ruby Metaprogramming<p>2. Rails
- Railstutorial.org
- Pragprog.com: Agile Web Development with Rails
- Rails documentation<p>3. Design
- W3Schools: CSS &#38; HTML intro
- Pragprog.com: Web design for developers
- Pragprog.com: CSS3 &#38; HTML5<p>4. Credibility
- Build own application
- Ruby Silver certification<p>5. On the (freelance) job
- Railsmentors.org if I need feedback
- Find freelance developer at same rate to subcontract things I can't do efficiently (and learn from the code and the process).<p>Should this suffice? As you can see I will try to learn the same stuff from different sources - in my experience that's when things stick the most in my mind.<p>I am also wondering whether I should finish more advanced books (Rails way, Rails recipes, Ruby Quiz, TextMate, Rake, ...) before becoming a freelancer?<p>Thanks for the feedback!
======
gexla
Starting from zero is too much for all of that. However, just the fact that
you know what you need to start with isn't starting from zero.

You don't need to know everything. I have been a freelance back-end developer
for something like four years and I always get the CSS / HTML / designs handed
to me. Sure, I need to do some light HTML / CSS work when I need to tweak
something or just to know what I'm looking at, but that's pretty easy to pick
up. The same goes for the other side of the coin. If you are a good at design
/ CSS / HTML then you could be the guy handing that stuff off to the back-end
developers.

Part of being a freelancer is the technical side, the rest is the business
side. A sleazy salesman can sell anything. If you are good at BS'ing people
then you could sell jobs for higher rates than you mentioned on day one and
outsource that work.

So, going from zero to freelancer is very doable in three months. Going from
noob to proficient developer in three months isn't so easy and depends on you.
If you work full days at it every day and focus on the back-end then I imagine
you could be proficient in Rails in that time.

~~~
ebaysucks
I used to be a strategy consultant, so maybe I should go the BS route :)

------
gregjor
Not realistic. Even if you plow through all of that and obtain a meaningless
certification you won't have any experience. You will be wasting your client's
time if you get one. You will be competing with people with years of real
experience and expertise. Ask yourself if someone would pay you a low rate to
do their accounting or fill a cavity if you spent three months reading books
and web sites on accounting or dentistry.

What is it about programming that people think it can be learned so fast and
cheap?

~~~
ebaysucks
Fair point.

The context of my question: \- I want to build my own websites, 3 months to
learn (not unheard of, right?) \- I need cash quite fast and if I can build my
own website, why not somebody else's too...

~~~
gregjor
Good luck. Why programming? Why not learn bookkeeping in three months? Or get
a real estate license? Plumbers make good money. I can snake my own drain and
hook up a sprinkler -- why not do it for other people and charge them?

Three months to learn to do a dynamic, secure, database-backed website _is_
unheard of. I have 30+ years experience programming, 10+ on the web, and I
specialize in fixing/replacing sites put together by developers who got in
over their head and didn't know what they were doing. I have worked on
hundreds of web sites and I've never seen a customer happy with their $25/hr
site their nephew or power-user business partner or overseas oDesk consultant
cobbled together.

By all means learn web development -- it's a good job with lots of work. But
don't expect to be making $30/hr in three months. No client is going to hire
you without a portfolio and a track record. When I was eager to learn
programming I got a job at a place where I could learn from professional
programmers. I'd advise you to look for a tech support job somewhere you can
conceivably move into programming and web development with someone mentoring
you.

~~~
ebaysucks
Why programming: A basic trend is that everything becomes digital. Hence I
want to be in web startups. If I'll be doing web stuff for the next couple of
decades I might as well learn how to program.

It's possible to run a cab company without a driver's license, but it's not
very convenient.

~~~
gregjor
Nothing wrong with learning to program. You might get farther asking for help
and advice if you didn't assume it's so easy that you can learn how to do it
from books and web sites in a few months. You're insulting people who have put
lots of time and effort into programming and web development. You will get a
similar reaction from any skilled professional or tradesperson if you suggest
you can go from zero to employed in a few months by reading books.

It probably is possible to learn how to drive a car and the rules of
collecting cab fares in three months. It's probably not possible to learn how
to efficiently navigate a medium-sized or larger city in that time. London cab
drivers study for nearly three years and average 12 exams to get their hack
license.

Good luck with your career change. I think your expectations are unrealistic,
and I've worked with a lot of programmers, but I'm prepared to be surprised.
Post again in three months to tell about your first contract job.

~~~
ebaysucks
Thanks. I didn't intent to insult anyone but you're right my post implies
that.

------
gregjor
Read this. It's shorter than the stuff already on your list: Teach Yourself
Programming in Ten Years

<http://norvig.com/21-days.html>

You probably don't know who Peter Norvig is, or why his opinions matter more
than anything on W3schools, but believe me that they do.

~~~
ebaysucks
Accidently I've read this yesterday (was it on HN?).

He's right - but I need to buy food between now and 10 years.

