
How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C. - glassworm
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/james-fallows-leaf-blower-ban/583210/
======
shiftpgdn
For what it's worth a gas powered leaf blower puts out as much pollution in a
day of work as a Ford Raptor will in 100,000 miles. Source:
[https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-
test-...](https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-test-car-vs-
truck-vs-leaf-blower.html)

~~~
MaxGabriel
They could just ban gas-powered leaf blowers to prevent that.

~~~
detaro
That's what they did.

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adamswann
The ban is on _gas_ -powered leaf blowers. I’ve switched to all electric yard
tools at home. No regrets; the tools are durable, can easily handle the whole
job on a single charge, quiet enough that I feel comfortable letting my
children assist (they can hear my instructions and generally what’s going on
around them), and no gas engines to maintain.

~~~
rootusrootus
The real issue IMO is that the battery powered yard tools are infected by the
same planned obsolescence as existing power tools. Most gas-powered yard tools
last damn near forever even if you don't do maintenance on them. The battery
powered ones are good for three years and then you're buying a new one. If
you're lucky they still make the battery, but it costs as much a whole new
tool.

Wish we could standardize modern rechargeable batteries the same way we did
with old lead acid models.

~~~
Pfhreak
> If you're lucky they still make the battery, but it costs as much a whole
> new tool.

Aren't most companies working on a standardized battery (at least within their
brand) so you can swap batteries between your drill, blower, trimmer, etc? It
would seem that if that's the case, changing battery form factors would be a
real bad idea.

~~~
snarfy
(within their brand)

That's the kicker. I have DeWalt, Makita, and Rigid brand electric tools. They
all have different, incompatible (yet same voltage/amp) batteries and
chargers, each costing as much as the tool. At least gas goes in any gas tool.

I'd rather they be regulations on the amount of pollution (both air and noise)
allowed.

~~~
spankalee
I'm fine with regulation as long as zero is the amount of CO2 pollution
allowed. We need to be in crisis mode now.

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mrfredward
>Noise, they have come to understand, is the secondhand smoke of this era.

Most of the author's points about sound come down to hand waving and weasel
wording. He says hearing loss is "coming up fast on the list" of public health
problems (a meaningless assertion), and then he never presents evidence that
leaf blowers are a significant cause of this. He started with the conclusion
(leaf blowers make an annoying sound), and then did his best to argue the
sound that annoys him should be illegal.

On the other hand, he's right that 2 stroke engines are dirty as hell, and his
statistics to that ends are a bit more convincing.

~~~
bonestamp2
I understand the noise complaint, I work from home and I hear them all week as
my various neighbor's gardeners arrive throughout each day. That said... I
have an electric one that is awesome and it's much quieter than the 2-stroke I
used to have. Leaf blowers do serve a purpose but the electric ones are a
great improvement on noise and pollution.

~~~
2sk21
Indeed leaf blowers produc one of the most distracting and annoying sounds
when working from home

~~~
bonestamp2
Ya, it's not as much of a problem at the office because you maybe hear one
leaf blower all week. At home, it's 1-2 per day. When they come do my lawn,
it's always while I'm on the phone.

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yummypaint
I wish universities would ban leaf blowers. In addition to pollution, they
kick up spores that contaminate people's experiments in the bio sciences. I
know people who had to turn around and go back home to shower because they got
blasted by a leaf blower walking to work.

Given that campuses are eager to ban smoking, which produces vastly less
pollution by volume, leaf blowers should be a no brainer.

~~~
erikpukinskis
Why don't we use vacuums?

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gumby
Not mentioned is that leaf blowers blow away the topsoil and little bugs that
maintain it. The ground becomes hard and no longer water permeable (it’s why
the suburban ground in California looks — and acts — like concrete.

My gardeners don’t use leaf blowers and people are always asking what
chemicals I use to keep my garden looking so lush. I don’t use any of those
either; the process is called “nature”.

~~~
dbcurtis
> it’s why the suburban ground in California looks — and acts — like concrete.

Look, I am as fanatical about soil biome issues as anyone that you are going
to find, but your assertion is overly simplistic. If you look at a soil type
map for large parts of Sili Valley, you will see big chunks labeled "Adobe".
As in clay. As in it doesn't percolate. As in naturally sparse in organic
matter. As in gardening contractors in Milpitas _own_ not _rent_ jackhammers,
and it has nothing to do with the long term effects of leaf blowers.

~~~
gumby
Yes, but the topsoil has been blown away exposing that clay.

You just have to look at the "nature strip" in front of my house compared to
my neighbors on the same street. We're all on the same terrain. Mine is the
only one with grass (and flowers despite people getting out of cars and
treading on them).

~~~
djpilot
Maybe blown away by wind and / or burned dry by the summer heat.

You seem out of touch with reality (I intend this in the gentlest way
possible).

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axaxs
Good. I had a neighbor that spent multiple days each fall running them. Windy
day? No problem, spend 6 hours making a pile and chasing the ones that blow
off. Gutters clogged? Use a ladder and a leafblower to clean their gutters. It
was ear piercing even inside my home. I asked they not do that, as it wasn't
even efficient, and they shrugged me off. I was left with absolutely no
recourse but to wear earplugs for a few days. I wish they'd ban those awful
things nationwide.

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gerbilly
Glorious day! I wish they would ban them where I live.

I detest noise, but judging by the popularity of Harley's I must be in the
minority.

~~~
larrywright
If we could band together and get motorcyles banned I would be ecstatic. Loud
mufflers of any kind, really.

~~~
codingdave
Motorcycles do not have to be loud. Many riders believe that loud pipes make
them safer, but I haven't seen data to back that up. I've owned bikes for
years, commuted to work on them (when I've had office-based jobs), and mostly
my neighbors are surprised to find out that I ride them, because I don't sit
outside and rev them up in the mornings before leaving, or gun them up to high
RPMs while leaving the neighborhood.

Motorcycles can be far more efficient than cars, so fight the noise, fight the
obnoxious riders.. but not the vehicle.

~~~
larrywright
Really my objection is to the loud noise. If Harley Davidson makes a silent
electric one, I'll rescind my call to ban them.

~~~
gerbilly
If Harley Davidson made an electric bike, then people would start buying
aftermarket noise makers that play the Harley sound at 140dB.

~~~
ryandrake
Cars are already piping fake engine noises through their speaker systems [1],
so this idea isn’t that far away.

1: [https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15117726/faking-it-
en...](https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15117726/faking-it-engine-sound-
enhancement-explained-tech-dept/)

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HarryHirsch
What is wrong with using a rake to pick up leaves? Leafblowers are loud,
dirty, they raise huge clouds of dust, they stink of gasoline, and at the end
of the day, blowing leaves into a pile isn't even faster than raking them
together. Using a leafblower is a sign of entitled loutishness.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
> Using a leafblower is a sign of entitled loutishness.

You were fine up until here. Insulting people for wanting to use an easier
option isn't a great look.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I don’t think it’s wrong to comment on people who care more about convenience
and cost then the externalities they’re creating (air and noise pollution).

“Selfish” is not a protected class.

~~~
HarryHirsch
Especially on this website, where you can find a substantial number of people
working from home in upscale developments.

Also this: the leafblower ban was voted on and passed. The majority of
Washingtonians thinks that running your petrol toy in public is so rude and
bothersome that the practice needs a city ordinance banning it.

~~~
winnin_the_game
Your comparison doesn't actually hold. Working from home, while more
convenient, actually decreases the externalities we pass on to others.

------
Animats
Palo Alto, CA has banned gas-powered leaf blowers since 2005.[1]

[1]
[https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/news/displaynews.asp?NewsID=6...](https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/news/displaynews.asp?NewsID=671&TargetID=96)

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mc32
Instead of outright banning them, why not require a strict maximum dB level
rating (in other words as tested by an independent lab).

Personally I’m in favor of limiting noise output rather than outright banning.

Otherwise it’s tyrannical for a minority to tell the majority what they may
and may not do.

~~~
muststopmyths
>The acoustic study found that in a densely settled neighborhood, a gas-
powered blower rated at, say, 75 decibels of noisiness can affect up to 15
times as many households as a battery-powered blower with the same 75-decibel
rating.

~~~
mc32
The motor of engine is part of the noise, the other is the fans pushing air
through, their speed and pitch affect noise levels too, so even an electric
leaf blower can be loud and uncomfortable.

~~~
mund2ne
Yeah, but not the same kind of loud and uncomfortable, as anyone who has
actually heard these things in person knows immediately.

~~~
beardedwizard
Ah I see, now you get to arbitrarily decide what noise is annoying for others,
because only one kind bothers you.

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eggy
The amount of pollution they make is horrible, but my actual disdain for them
is that when just a dusting of snow is on the ground, two or three guys with
leaf blowers are clearing the town sidewalks at 6 AM. The noise wakes my wife
and child, and it goes on for about twenty minutes straight.

I have used a light, wide broom for the same purpose. I use technology, and I
am not a Luddite, but leaf blowers don't seem to have enough pluses for me to
think otherwise. You still have to strap on a leaf blower, and wave the
blower, wear earmuffs (or go deaf), procure and fill it with fuel, and haul it
back to your truck or shed.

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bookofjoe
Leaf blowers were the annoying soundtrack of Westwood near UCLA when I lived
there from 1966-1983. By the time I left, they were buzzing everywhere from
before dawn to dusk. I cannot even imagine what Westwood sounds like now, 36
years later....

~~~
bookofjoe
One more thing: leaf blower noise pollution is inversely proportional to the
socioeconomic position of LA neighborhoods (except for Beverly Hills, which
banned gas-powered blowers in 1976).

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ortusdux
I don't know how I feel about bans like this that also ban stopgap solutions.

I've never used one personally, but it sounds like a LiquidPiston engine would
solve every problem this writer discuss.

[http://liquidpiston.com/technology/engine-
benefits/](http://liquidpiston.com/technology/engine-benefits/)

------
Datenstrom
A few weeks ago I saw someone leaf blowing snow on the sidewalk in Alexandria,
or at least trying to. One of the most absurd things I've ever seen.

~~~
myself248
I've done it. When we get a dusting of light powder and the pavement isn't
warm enough to melt the base layer, it's totally fair game for blowing. As
long as I'm using a warm battery that's been in the house, the blower makes
quick work of it.

~~~
paleogizmo
In this case a stiff-bristled 24" push broom works quite well and is cheap,
easy and quiet if your driveway isn't too long.

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justatdotin
I've always hated them. We once stuck tied a fan onto a broom to ridicule the
neighour.

But a few years ago I got one as a fire management tool, after seeing Parks
workers use them for that purpose along the roadside. They're an awesome way
to train a burn, and useful if it starts to get away from you.

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burtonator
How the hell am I supposed to get rid of my gas-powered leafs now?

Also, aren't all leaf's technically gas powered?

~~~
LeoPanthera
My Nissan Leaf is definitely not gas powered.

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phkahler
I've often thought that a great product would be a leaf powered leaf
blower/vacuum. Chop the leaves and burn them in a turbine that runs the vacuum
sucking them up. Yes, technical problems - so solve them and bring me this
product!

------
huntie
Has anyone here done commercial lawncare? I mowed cemeteries and churches for
5 years. Electric tools might work for a tiny suburban plot but try doing even
a single cemetery with them. We only used leaf blowers at the cemeteries a few
times a year (Memorial day, etc.) but there is no way an electric blower would
last long enough.

D.C. has Arlington Cemetery too, so I'm not sure what they'll do. Maybe they
have an exception.

~~~
cellularmitosis
This raises the larger issue of our culture’s expectation that acres of
manicured lawn is a reasonable thing to expect.

Once that seed of skepticism seeps in, you really reel at the sheer mass of
wasted time and money which this country spends on manicuring lawns.

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btbuildem
When I lived in Seattle, it blew my mind that your society had second-class
citizens driving around, cutting lawns and blowing leaves. It seemed so absurd
to me, but sense to a lot of people, and was legit a mainstream thing.

Noise pollution in cities is an insidious problem. I'm happy to see that DC
managed to reduce it somewhat. Although, 3 more years to wait is a bit of a
kicker.

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smileypete
Decent 4 stroke ones are pretty clean and quiet IME, maybe just ban the 2
stroke cheapos.

~~~
Pfhreak
Why burn gas to push leaves around at all though?

~~~
smileypete
The same reason most people are sticking with their gas powered cars for now,
I guess.

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linkmotif
I saw someone blowing snow in New York with a leaf blower the other day...

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digisign
LA banned them many years ago but will not enforce the law.

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cafard
Effective 2022. So I haven't been hearing things.

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oftenwrong
Leaf removal, whether performed with a gas-powered leaf blower or a rake, will
contribute to soil nutrient depletion in the long term.

[https://druidgarden.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/dont-bag-
your-l...](https://druidgarden.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/dont-bag-your-leaves-
an-analysis-of-nutrient-loss-and-soil-depletion-for-leaf-removal/)

~~~
loudtieblahblah
And not removing them completely removes your control over the landscaping,
because they will kill everything under them by suffocating them and blocking
light from reaching it.

Most people in suburban areas end up with tooo many leaves to compost or to
try to mulch with a lawn mower.

>to teach us, the widespread degradation and depletion of soil and other
resources leads to a civilization’s collapse.

This is why I can't ever take this hippy dippy shit seriously. Because I pick
up my leaves society is going to collapse? Okkayyy....

~~~
fiblye
You and billions of others are doing it.

Yet people act surprised when articles about insect and worm population
collapse come up.

~~~
lurquer
Billions of people are picking up leaves?

The total area of ‘yards’ where leaves are picked up is so utterly
insignificant that I wonder if you have ever been outside. In any case, the
article is about D.C. and, regrettably, there will never be a shortage of
worms in the capitol.

~~~
fiblye
Have you ever looked at any sort of public grounds? Because your home isn’t
the only place on earth with leaves and I don’t know where you got the idea.

Public parks, office perimeters, college campuses, busy roadsides, and yes,
home lawns are all locations where people gather up leaves to burn them or
send them off to the garbage. These are spaces in which billions of people
spend all day and expect to be “cleaned” of leaves, so yes, the impact is
significant.

~~~
lurquer
You clearly live in an urban area. You can see them on maps represented as
little dots. Sometimes little blobs. All the other 'empty' parts of the map?
Well, this may come as a surprise, but it consists of millions of acres of
forests, trees, and wilderness.

You could nuke every city in America and the 'worm' population wouldn't even
notice.

It's amusingly myopic to worry about the leaves in an urban area where, most
likely, all the trees have been cut down and replaced with buildings and
asphalt. Real honestly, nobody cares what the soil is like in an
urban/suburban area as (a) the 'soil' was most likely carted in from somewhere
else to begin with and (b) the plants and trees one finds in a suburban/urban
area aren't native anyway.

I really don't care about the leaves or lack thereof on your 'college campus.'
But, I find it astounding that, very often on HN, there is this absolute lack
of awareness of how BIG this country and is. Some posts come across as if the
author's only interaction with the 'real world' is watching BBC nature
documentaries and picnicking in the 'public park.' No offense intended.

~~~
fiblye
I grew up in rural America, and you're obviously not. :)

I'm very used to people around me gathering up acres of leaves to burn.

Your argument is exactly the same as what's used by climate change deniers.
America has forests, yeah. But half the country is dedicated to agriculture
and towns. A lot of the untouched land is fairly mountainous or lacking in
deciduous trees, i.e., not great territory for worms and insects.

It's bizarre how people still deny obvious human actions having affects on
populations of the little creatures below us. We know that their populations
are dropping faster every year. Spraying poison and depriving the ground of
nutrients are pretty strong candidates for causes.

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dbg31415
Look, these things are horrible for the environment... no doubt.

But in my opinion, two-stroke gas leaf blowers and lawnmowers are the best
engines to take apart and learn engine repair on -- repair and maintenance
being cornerstones of mechanical engineering. I love doing small-engine repair
and these were my gateway drug.

Plus... the smell of mixed grass trimmings and gas is something magical.
(Wait, is that weird?)

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actionowl
Mulch 'em! (It's noisy too but they're full of nutrients!)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9OhxKlrWwc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9OhxKlrWwc)

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_Codemonkeyism
YEEEEES!

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viburnum
This is just socialism, thinking your hearing and breathing is more important
than efficient landscaping. If leaf blowers were really that bad the market
would have eliminated them.

~~~
kuroguro
Consider adding a /s ^^;

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snarfy
But somehow automobiles are OK.

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pard68
Bah! The whining of electric yard tools is no better. If you don't have a hill
just get a tradition reel mower. Instead of a weedwhacker get a scythe.
Instead of a leaf blower, buy a rake. Healthiest lawn tools on the market!

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sfopdxnonstop
No need to ban them, just tax their use at a level that pays the costs. Want
to use a two stroke blower instead of electric? OK, $20 per hour tax.

Same with light bulbs.

~~~
mund2ne
What, exactly, are the costs associated with destroying the hearing of
everyone within 500 feet? With waking all the sleeping children within that
range? With disturbing the concentration of everyone working from home in that
range?

A tax that reflects the actual externalities of the usage would be
functionally the same as a ban and impossible to actually manage.

