
Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem - hu_me
http://nytimes.com/2014/03/16/magazine/silicon-valleys-youth-problem.html
======
danbmil99
I'm old, Valley-based, and I code. I have a very sketchy resume, filled with
inexplicable voids and failed startups, plus one very caveat-filled partial
success. I find it almost trivial to find well-paying work coding, and I seem
to be able to develop great relationships with engineers half my age. The
challenge in my case is to find work that is interesting, challenging, and has
potential impact on the world at large, things which I care about more and
more as I get older.

My sense is that there are quite a few people, both young and old, who find it
hard to break into the 'valley scene'. I've felt that too at times, in spite
of my (roughly speaking) successful career. The culture is insular and
judgmental in a way that can be very intimidating. However, it should be noted
that this is equally true in other areas, especially in what might be called
"glamour" fields, such as film, music, fashion, writing, art, etc. In every
one of these arenas, there is a clique mentality, where judgement can be swift
and capricious, and being "in" is almost a binary value, based on a seemingly
subconscious pattern-matching process that can at times feel like the result
of a hive mind.

I guess the news flash here is that SV startup life is now officially
glamorous. Pretty soon we'll have a raft of reality TV shows dogging our every
move, and providing income to those of us who have fallen from the grace of
the techno A-list.

~~~
ihsw
> Pretty soon we'll have a raft of reality TV shows dogging our every move,
> and providing income to those of us who have fallen from the grace of the
> techno A-list.

It's already started.

[http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/04/reality-tv-gets-startup-
obs...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/04/reality-tv-gets-startup-obsessed-
with-bravos-silicon-valley-and-huh-working-titles/)

------
not_paul_graham
Link to previous discussion (11 days old):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7384818](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7384818)

------
hox
"Older engineers are not smart in the way that start-ups want them to be..."

Sigh.

~~~
zxcdw
I understand this as in that younger ones have more wild ideas than pragmatic
engineering solutions, unlike older ones tend to skew towards the engineering
solutions rather than the ideas.

In a way I see it as ideas vs. implementations. A gross generalization and
oversimplification, perhaps doesn't reflect to reality at all, but maybe the
thought prevails among certain groups of people in SV.

~~~
mattmanser
What a bunch of nonsense.

The reality is simply that young, inexperienced people are cheap and are
willing to cut corners because they don't understand the dangers. And then a
year or 2 later the next MtGox programming blunder story appears.

------
bertil
This link was submitted a week ago. Funny enough, I only found the time to
read it yesterday (it is very long, an hour to read according to Readability).
Most of the original discussion focused on how it failed to consider one
aspect or the other, but the truth is, I felt it was a fairly considerate,
all-encompassing testimony. Reading it at the same time as clips on Google
centered Hiring cartels made the whole HR situation in the Valley…
interesting, and far from obvious. Reading it with Brynjolfsson & McAfee’s
theory on massive obsolescence gives shivers, because it draws a portrait of a
small elite, selected at almost random, or according to unclear practices (in
addition to the link, PG did mention that Y Combinator needed to take _more_
risk), that is the only one to collect either skills or signals to stay in the
market. Then there is the drone-fueled utopia, where I’m not sure which part
will be AI operated, which part will be human Uber-operators, although I am
sure that even Uber won’t be able to tell because some unsavory characters
will hook AI to human-entries…

My nightmare as a twenty-something with a fanstastic diploma and no job
prospects (needs experience to get a job, don’t have references because
unearthed a fraud during internship, fraud that almost ruined my family) is
getting more detailed and deeper. It’s the systemic, sustainable, sensical
version of ‘Entry job; needs two year experience’.

I still think that a large group is not mentioned in most of those reference,
certainly OP, are the surprisingly large hordes of people who can’t seem to
find jobs in San Francisco. Including coders, including very talented ones. No
idea what’s at stake: the list of claimed discriminated groups are long, and
constitute a pavement of all candidates (as pointed in the article).

Here is a problem in need of a solution, but I can’t seem to make sense of
what either are.

~~~
Bahamut
I'm very sympathetic to your plight - I too am infuriated by how crappy the
system has gotten when it comes to developing candidates with no experience.
This is a situation that's broken across the country though, not just San
Francisco - my frustrating experience was in the Washington, DC area, a
supposedly excellent job market.

I was once in your situation as well - MS math degree from a top level program
(4 year PhD student before leaving in an unexpected manner) who also had
problems finding a job & applied to any entry level career track job I could
(PR, programming, data scientist, statistician, business analyst, intelligence
analyst, HR, secretary, sales, etc.). I got fed up after 2 years of searching
(minus 7 months spent in initial active duty training in the military before
becoming a drilling reservist) and taught myself how to program. I hit up the
local meetup events pretty hard simultaneously, and a recruiter helped me get
an entry level position - it was entry level pay, but I quickly proved myself
from there and with only 16 months of experience, am about to start making
$100k+ doing web development.

Hang in there, it gets better - I've experienced some pretty terrible things
as well, and I made it out ok.

~~~
apaprocki
I suppose every company is different. As a counter-example, we have two
different programs -- one for CS grads and one for other non-CS science grads
(e.g. physics, math, ee, biology, etc.). Both programs are about 3 months in
length and are meant to either teach or refresh practical skills needed on the
job. This includes both outside knowledge (e.g. C++) as well as internal
tools/processes. More importantly, the group "graduates" as a class and
everyone starts their job knowing a decent size group of people in various
places throughout the company. A job isn't entry-level if it requires
experience outside of school. I just wanted to give an example to show that
programs like these do exist. In fact, some of the best programmers I know
were math or physics grads with no CS experience outside of a few classes.

~~~
Bahamut
I don't doubt that programs like your company's exist - the problem is
systemic, as opposed to rare, is my point.

~~~
apaprocki
It would be interesting to see data on this. My gut says most companies with a
large number of employees have some kind of program, so it may just be
something that is acquired over time and only systemic in smaller companies.
They maybe don't need to spend the resources on it because there is enough
competition for the small number of positions.

------
Dale1
As a mature student all I ever hear about is that no one will hire a student
with no experience? So you get students doing unpaid internships, part time
jobs and basically anything to show on their CV.

I've come to the solution that it's all a load of rubbish. Build a network,
become a face within your little niche and make sure your knowledge /
experience is always moving upwards.

Too many youngsters think that getting a 1st == instant £60,000+ a year job.
Too many older people think working 20 years doing the same thing again and
again == instant £60,000+ a year job.

Neither is true, a career takes time to build, pruning your network and
stacking the cards in your favour.

------
asterfr
Should the whole Valley be considered as producing only WhatsApp ? Today's
revolution are running on Twitter and Facebook, those dummy, useless,
whateveryouwant services are enablers to people.

We are talking about the Valley that is the birth place of Tesla and AirBnB, I
wouldn't rate those ones as useless, or solving problems that doesn't matter.

------
bowlofpetunias
All I read is two different ways of being an ignorant douche problem.
Basically the opening illustration accurately summarizes the entire article.

The solution, surprisingly, is to just don't.

------
flint
Why does the NYT post 2 week old NYT stories on HN?

