
Why Canada Is Able to Do Things Better - brandonhall
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/07/canada-america-taxes/533847/?single_page=true
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Mikeb85
Canada is far from perfect. We too have infrastructure deficits, the city I
live in suffers from incompetent city planning (although recently it's gotten
better), our house prices are insane, and the cost of living is very high.

That being said, the one thing I think Canada does 100x better is politics.
Mainly because Canadians generally don't 'belong' to a political party or
movement. Almost everyone here will vote almost any direction, depending on
the issues at hand and happiness with the status quo. Identity politics is
also non-existent here. This leads to a political class which is somewhat more
pragmatic, less ideological, and certainly less extreme.

Also, at lower levels of government, politicians are more likely to be
unaligned with any party, and at the provincial level the political parties
vary by province and most aren't aligned with the federal parties.

So in general, I'd say Canada's advantage is simply that politics isn't as
stratified. But again, while our country is amazing IMO, it's not perfect.

~~~
jbob2000
Not entirely true. Canada has "conservatives" and "everybody else". We get a
lot of american media here which unfortunately poisons a lot of our political
debates.

~~~
ramy_d

      Canada has "conservatives" and "everybody else".
    

Not at all. Just because there is only 1 party with the word "conservative" in
their name does not reduce it to a binary system with no tangible differences
within the different parties. I do agree with the USA's political poisoning -
it's a shame when we see "political trends" move home.

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strictnein
> "Much of the surrounding road and rail infrastructure is in even worse shape
> (the trip from LaGuardia Airport to midtown Manhattan being particularly
> appalling). Washington, D.C.’s semi-functional subway system feels like a
> World’s Fair exhibit that someone forgot to close down. "

Yes, those low tax, anti-government strongholds of NYC and DC are great
examples of how more taxes will solve everything.

~~~
bryanlarsen
"low tax, anti-government strongholds of NYC and DC"

Compared to the author's Ontario, Canada? Yes, they are.

~~~
Cuuugi
Ontario has the largest non-sovereign debt anywhere. In the world... If you
are looking for example for a solid economic policy Ontario should be the
farthest thing from.

[http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/with-twice-
th...](http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/with-twice-the-debt-of-
california-ontario-is-now-the-worlds-most-indebted-sub-sovereign-
borrower/wcm/30c38ab9-4a3f-4f39-ac95-4d9516013d89)

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api_or_ipa
Funny. As a Canadian, I look to (and moved to) America to achieve. I find our
government, at many levels, to be very slow moving, averse to change and
frequently lags behind the US in allowing innovation. Vancouver's down-right
refusal to consider ride-sharing apps is nothing short of corruption. The
archaic alcohol laws, including prohibition of transport of booze across
borders (except for made-in-Canada wine, gotta protect your favoured
industries!) is another example.

Looking north across the border, it's easy to see a greener field, but Canada
has suffered a decades of brain-drain and poor multi-factor productivity
because of slow, restrictive government policy and a refusal to embrace
innovation. It's a shame it takes this long to enact change.

~~~
YZF
I was traveling in Illinois many years ago with some locals and we passed a
county were supposedly prohibition is still in effect. So not sure about US
being ahead of Canada there. I'm not a big fan of alcohol but it's now sold in
supermarkets in BC and there's a million micro-breweries so I don't think
we're that much behind in this questionable industry. People here (and in the
US) seem incapable of drinking responsibly and that impacts others so not sure
why we should worry about providing them with easy/cheap booze.

In Vancouver I'd point to the homeless issue is the biggest problem. After the
weather ;)

All in all I think Canada strikes a good balance. Possibly one of the best in
the world. If the weather was better we'd be ahead of the US in all parameters
...

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j9461701
>Canadians tend not to talk about making their country great again. Canada
never was particularly great—at least not in the sense that Trump uses the
word. Unlike Americans, Canadians haven’t been conditioned to see history in
epic, revolutionary terms.

To be fair to Americans... once upon a time, they really were were that far
ahead of everyone else. In 1945, it's estimated they constituted over 50% of
the global GDP. You _are_ the global economy at that point, and that's going
to distort anyone's perception of what constitutes fiscal propriety. Most
politicians were born either during this golden age, or a bit after when
things were still very rosy. The US still represented 40% (edit: of gdp) even
when relatively young politicians, like Barack Obama, came into the world.
It's difficult to convince someone he can't just cut taxes to generate more
good will with the electorate when, for most of his professional life, the
economy was so good he could do just that and not seriously hurt anything.

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bkohlmann
This argument has always interested me:

"Because Canadian entrepreneurs can quit their day jobs without their spouse
losing access to dialysis, or their children losing access to pediatricians,
such a system allows business-builders more professional freedom."

Does the data show that countries with single payer, or even individual-based
(not employer) health care, have greater percentages of entrepreneurs? How
about overall entrepreneurial outcomes?

~~~
throwawayjava
_> Does the data show that countries with single payer, or even individual-
based (not employer) health care, have greater percentages of entrepreneurs?
How about overall entrepreneurial outcomes?_

It's worth noting that the quote from the article and this question are _not
at all_ the same thing. National economies are big complicated things.

Aside from the USA, few countries without+ universal healthcare have high
rates of what we in the US would consider entrepreneurial activity (e.g.,
excluding "self-employed" subsistence farmers and the like). But the USA is
one of if not the most entrepreneurial country. Again, those two facts tell us
basically nothing about the effect of health care systems on entrepreneurship.
Trust me, South Sudan's lack of functional universal healthcare is _not_ the
reason they haven't usurped SV...

People try to study the actual effect by controlling for other variables.
Unsurprisingly, "it's complicated" and also EXTREMELY politicized, so you can
find studies on both sides of the issue.

\+ But does the US "not have" universal healthcare? cf Canada/western Europe
and the answer is yes, but cf other countries and medicare/medicaide and the
answer is more fuzzy.

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mabbo
If this article inspires anyone to finally move to Canada, there's lots of
startups here in Toronto that are hiring. Also Amazon is hoping to fill 200
more desks this year in their Toronto office and Google is nearby in Waterloo.

Happy to help anyone interested.

~~~
jbob2000
As an addendum; the bar is extremely low for developers in Canada. If you show
up on time, smell nice, and put on a smile, you will be lauded with awards,
compliments, raises, and time off.

~~~
bluehazed
I wouldn't necessarily say the bar is low... but I feel like the work culture
is certainly much healthier here.

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petraeus
Specifically, it is imagined that even severe and abruptly implemented tax
cuts will serve to actually increase government revenue, thanks to the turbo-
charging effect on economy growth.

\- a conservative

------
jjawssd
> Denmark, with a tax burden of 49.6 percent, stands atop the OECD index. It
> also happens to be a wonderful place to live, with a high standard of living
> funded by a diversified, high-tech, export-driven economy.

Denmark is NOT a wonderful place to live. It is a stable society where
everyone is equally poor except the tax dodgers. Furthermore, the climate is
more bleak than Seattle. This article makes Denmark seem like THE place to be.
It clearly is not. Just look at where the economic migrants are flocking to.
That would be Germany. Furthermore, this article is a blatant propaganda
piece. "More government is good for you" is the overriding mantra here. There
is no discussion of the downsides of increasing taxation on the population at
all. Instead, it is a pure puff piece which is engineered to make Canada seem
great because of taxation. The reality is that the Canadians are functionally
isolated from the United States. They decide their own policies. They decide
their own cultural norms and laws. If anything, it is the decoupling of that
region from the rest of the legislative United States that fosters such a
wonderful culture localized to north of the US border. It's not taxation that
makes Canada great, but jurisdiction and their right to self-determination.

~~~
wvenable
There's basically a single statement about Denmark and it merely an example
that a high tax burden isn't universally harmful. A reasonable counterexample
would be a country with a high tax rate that is in terrible conditions caused
by it rather than pointing out that Denmark isn't perfect (which is a straw
man argument in the first place).

There conflation of paying taxes and "more government" is also on display on
in this comment that isn't true. You can have a large poor government or a
large well funded government.

I think ultimately the article makes a good point about Canadian's attitude
towards taxation and services. Canadian's understand that you get what you pay
for. If you want _nothing_ then pay nothing but that means you get poor
schools, crumbling roads, and crippling healthcare bills.

~~~
ameister14
The article doesn't make a point backed up by data, though. For example, the
US spends much more than Canada per capita on schools yet performs worse.

[http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-
globa...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-
study-shows/)

------
economics101
The US now has a federal budget of $4 trillion. Lack of money is not the
problem.

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almonj
There is a lot of valuable information and,in my opinion, the author's views
are well supported by his experience and his research. However, you get the
sense he has been paid by the word. I think democratic systems are under
threat. I think, as well, that the threats are resulting in lower economic
growth and fewer opportunities for evolving generations. This article does not
provide an important context as to why this is happening. Society would be
better off if everyone knew this stuff. I just wish it was a little more
readable.

~~~
owebmaster
> The health care in Canada is terrible. If I want to see a doctor I have to
> wait typically 2+ weeks to get an appointment. Go to emergency room you have
> to wait 8+ hours and receive poor treatment.

Oh, how I enjoy first world problems. I'm feeling like I'll love Canada.

~~~
almonj
Of course the power to amend provincial constitutions is restricted to changes
in the internal machinery of the provincial government

~~~
owebmaster
If not so many countries are doing better than them, I think they are doing
the best work as it is not easy to manage a country. Outsiders don't do good
judgement.

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almonj

         Nothing that the Canadian Government does is good. All 
      government institutions survive through theft, deception
     and immorality. All government programs are dysgenics 

programs. All functions of government can be surpassed by regulation free
markets. All non-voluntary regulations are implicitly sexist, racist and
immoral. All government programs perpetuate abusive relationships. All
government workers are bad people. All functions of government should be
replaced by regulation free markets.

    
    
       Canada is one of the worst places to live in the world 

right now, as it on the verge of a complete TechnoMarxist takeover and well on
the way to becoming a neo-third-world country. In < 10 years we will have a
complete surveillance state, forced labor camps and eugenics programs. The
federal government already has apps with points based rewards systems that
track all of your behavior and give you tax credits for destroying your
country and people.

    
    
      To see people praising this obviously paid by the federal 

government shill is shocking, here on this website, a website for
intellectuals. You utter fools! You're playing right into the hands of the
authoritarians.

