
Is Uber Making Taxi Service Better? - aaronbrethorst
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/uber-taxi-drivers-complaints-chicago-newyork/397931/?single_page=true
======
toxicFork
I took an Uber during the tube strikes of London quite recently. They had a
surge pricing that almost tripled fares. That's understandable.

I was speaking to the driver, asking about his opinions on Uber. I started the
conversation assuming Uber gave him an opportunity to work. It was not exactly
like that.

He used to work at a taxi company for around 30 years. Then Uber came. They
lost a lot of business to Uber, because of the lower prices. Also it didn't
help that the boss was the only person taking the calls and sometimes he
forgot to tell the drivers that a job was available, or he just slept through
calls. So the company shut down.

His son started working for Uber, and was very happy with it. So he started
working for Uber too, but he said he was earning much less, and working more.

Also he complained that the customers would sometimes have a lot of luggage
bags, and his previous employer allowed him to charge extra for luggage bags,
extra people, or other "inconveniences". Uber doesn't. So he wasn't happy, but
he doesn't have many options.

Uber seems to be making it better for the customers, and worse for the "old
school" drivers.

Edit: He did mention that when driving for Uber, if he sees someone with lots
of luggage bags or lots of people, he just doesn't pick them up. I guess Uber
may eventually come up with penalties against that, if they haven't already.

~~~
Sarkie
Had this exact thing the other day.

I had boxes and I ordered an uber, done it before, used them a good 50+ times.

The driver turned up and said an "UberX" is just the person, nothing else,
that's what the next one is for.

I've never seen any info telling me this, so this is Uber's fault I feel and
I've chatted to the same type of people, they work more, but also they said,
sometimes the controllers in London, send drivers around everywhere for a
fair, whereas Uber it is perfect for people to pick in the same area.

So to excuse the phrase, it's all swings and roundabouts. I'd love to be able
to pick up a black cab and maybe pay a little bit more as their knowledge far
outweighs any gps alternative.

~~~
suvelx
Maybe he meant 'uber XL' (which is the next step up on the slider), which are
people carriers for more people/bigger items?

------
arasmussen
> Data from more than a billion cab rides reveal that customer complaints in
> New York and Chicago steadily declined after Uber came to town.

Probably because most of the people who typically file complaints switched to
Uber, leaving just the complacent taking taxis.

------
busterarm
I finally, after many years, found Taxi service in NYC to be very, very good.

Then Uber popped up and the city is absolutely filled with car services.
There's a million black cars on the road and yellow cab companies from New
Jersey here. As dangerous as taxi drivers were, I've found these (as a
pedestrian) to be much worse.

Then my experiences using Uber have been pretty bad -- from new drivers not
knowing how the app works to people not knowing their way around
Manhattan/Brooklyn and either _not following_ their GPS or blindly following
their GPS. On one ride the driver tried to drive in a circle 3 times and then
chose to take the battery tunnel (and pass along the toll) when we were next
to the Williamsburg Bridge. I had one experience last week where I hailed an
Uber and a drunk woman waiting for a cab jumped in and tried to get him to
take her home. I explained to the driver that I was his fare and then he acted
totally disinterested in the fact that she was in the car and had me deal with
telling her to get out.

And now when I get in a normal taxi, my experience is much worse.

Uber is really great for two things: cost effective rides from NYC into New
Jersey and the ability to summon a ride to your location. Probably the outer
boroughs and Long Island are good too but I don't have experience with that.
Other services are summonable and there's no reason that normal taxis couldn't
be as well.

Honestly, as a midtown resident, I hate Uber in New York City. They drive
dangerously on the road here and now it seems like everyone else is too
(especially the tour bus companies and private sanitation services). It's
lawless here in part because of them.

~~~
busterarm
Seeing as my post is already unpopular, I'll get right to the point.

Over 2000 for-hire car services are being added to the streets every month in
NYC. This is causing an unbelievable amount of congestion in an already
crowded city. Within two years, the number of these will be double the number
of yellow cabs we already have on the road.

The average speed of traffic this year was the slowest recorded - 8.5 miles
per hour - and will slow further as we add more of these cars.

~~~
UK-AL
Surely if taxis are not available, people drive? Increasing congestion.

~~~
paulmd
Actually taxis and personal automobiles do not create an equivalent amount of
congestion. Personal automobiles tend to go point to point during several peak
periods, after which they park and are off the roads. Commercial vehicles like
taxis, on the other hand, are in service all day. Taxicabs, in particular,
produce a lot of congestion since they're always stopping to pick up/drop off
fares.

The money shot on this is that a single taxi produces congestion equivalent to
about 40 personal vehicles, and a 15% increase in taxicabs reduces all traffic
speeds by about 12% [1]. A certain level of taxis is a good thing, but they
don't solve the need for an effective mass transit system.

[1] [http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/01/20/more-
taxis-...](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/01/20/more-taxis-mean-
more-traffic/)

~~~
seunosewa
A single taxi replaces several cars, so its unremarkable that a taxi "causes
congestion equivalent to" many cars. You said a 15% increase in taxi cabs
reduces traffic speeds by 12% but you didnt compare it with a similar increase
in private cars.

~~~
paulmd
The article did address that - the simulated "15% increase in traffic volume"
results from adding either an additional 2,000 taxis OR the equivalent 80,000
private cars.

You may think that it's more socially optimal to have the taxi instead of the
equivalent 40 private vehicles, of course. This is just speaking strictly in
terms of congestion.

------
blader
I had to take a taxi from San Francisco Airport recently. It was the first
time I've been in a taxi in close to 4 years, and it was amazing. On the
outside, it's the same looking taxi with the same Yellow Cab company.

On the inside, I've never seen anything like it. Interior was spotless and
smelled nice. The driver was exceedingly polite, like a black car driver. They
happily took credit cards using a NFC reader. Before that ride I was actively
avoiding taxis, and now I'd take one in a heartbeat.

If you haven't taken a taxi in a few years, I think you'll find it really
different from what you've remembered, at least in the Bay Area.

~~~
khuey
You realize the only reason they've cleaned up their act is because Uber et
al. are eating their lunch, right?

~~~
gutnor
Well so ? That how competition works. If the taxi are getting better than
Uber, not using because they used to be crap is the same position than people
not using Uber because they are not the good old taxi.

------
colin_jack
As someone who doesn't often use taxis but often finds them the most
pushy/unsafe drivers on the road I'll be interested to see if these other
services improve that side of things.

Its particularly important for me when I'm a pedestrian because
taxis/cyclists/delivery vans running red lights or taking corners too quickly
are a relatively regular hazard that I'd be glad to be rid of.

~~~
omouse
When Uber purchases self-driving cars you'll see that side of things improve.

------
choppaface
Uber & Lyft may have safety problems, but at least the drivers aren't using
Crown Victorias with poor seatbelts. Imagine if John Nash hadn't taken a taxi
that day.

~~~
alialkhatib
I don't think this remark is appropriate, especially given that an UberX
driver killed a 6-year-old about 2 and a half years ago, but mostly because
Uber and Lyft have been around for only around 5 years at this point.

~~~
9872
5 years with that number of drivers is a ton of data.

~~~
alialkhatib
That's true, but it's dwarfed by the amount of data representing traditional
cabs. If we're not _just_ selecting for cases involving deaths, a string of
cases implicating Uber drivers in violence against passengers[0,1,2] suggests
- if nothing else - that the notion that Uber/Lyft drivers are qualitatively
safer than taxis is false. And in the last case, it's clear that shortcomings
in a system (namely, the thoroughness of background checks Uber runs) might
have prevented such a turn of events.

0: [http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/UberX-Driver-Accused-
of...](http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/UberX-Driver-Accused-of-Hitting-
Passenger-with-Hammer-in-San-Francisco-277280041.html)

1:
[http://laist.com/2015/04/10/uber_driver_attack_van_nuys.php](http://laist.com/2015/04/10/uber_driver_attack_van_nuys.php)

2: [http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhuet/2014/06/03/uber-
driver...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhuet/2014/06/03/uber-driver-with-
felony-conviction-charged-with-battery-for-allegedly-hitting-passenger/)

~~~
Lewton
3 cases of "uber"-violence does nothing to suggest "that the notion that
Uber/Lyft drivers are qualitatively safer than taxis is false" without data
from the dangers of riding normal cabs to compare it to.

~~~
alialkhatib
That's true. I think I just got annoyed at the emotional appeal of the Nash
death and overreached. Sorry.

------
stillsut
It's really not a "taxi" based on experience growing up in Boston.

To me, a taxi was always a super unreliable, and usually outrageously
expensive (and unpleasant) service that you might take once in a blue moon. I
never based a plan around the idea of getting a cab, there had to be other
options.

With Uber, I can now reliably plan on them actually showing up, on time, and
to even outside central locations. So it doesn't just win against the
competition, but actually expands my demand for the product because I'll
factor it into my plans.

------
bilalel
In Paris, taxi are making it worse in term of customer perception. For
example, the last protest from taxi drivers that suspended the service UberPop
[0].

0 : [http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/03/uber-
suspe...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/03/uber-suspends-
french-ride-sharing-service-uberpop)

------
vassy
I'm using Uber quite often, but mostly to get home from central London. I live
in zone 5, and I rarely find one around there.

Unfortunately, a lot of the drivers are very unskilled. I once almost crashed
into a fence that the driver somehow didn't see. Another time, the GPS took
the driver to a dead-end road, so I had to tell him to drive back and follow
the road. When I mentioned that he has to turn right, he turned right straight
away, on the wrong side of the road. I almost collided head-on with another
car.

Maybe I've been unlucky, but these drivers need to be evaluated somehow. I was
reading Shortlist the other day, and apparently it takes more than two years
and around 20,000 miles on a scooter around London to pass the black cab
driver test.

~~~
k-mcgrady
I've used Uber from Zone 1-3 for the last few weeks. Some good experiences but
I've had drivers with broken GPS asking me for directions, drivers who ignored
Ubers GPS and used their own - which took poorer routes, and a driver who
failed to understand a clear diversion and drove the wrong way down a 1 way
road. On the other hand I had issues with fares twice (driver took an awful
'shortcut' and another driver cancelled after 10 mins and then surge pricing
was in effect) and both times Uber quickly provided a refund (within hours).

------
JohnyLy
Maybe Uber doesn't make the Taxi service better yet but it will. Having new
competitors will force taxis to improve their quality. This is true for any
industry: as soon as new competitors enter, quality increases and/or prices
are getting lower.

~~~
stuaxo
Except for where they are oligopolies, like the UK energy, water, telecoms
markets etc.

In fact all UK privatised assets.

------
stared
What I like the most about Uber is that I click, wait (and in the meantime can
track where is the car) plus I can use this application worldwide. If there
was a similar, international app for regular taxis (including price estimate),
then I would use it.

(Taxi claim that regulations are to keep quality. But my brother's experience
with Uber is much better than with regular taxis.)

So, in short, while Uber is making it harder for regular taxi drivers
(especially bad regular taxi companies), it makes it better for the users. If
taxi companies catch (instead of: complain), it will be win-win (for drivers
and users, not necessary - Uber).

------
blrgeek
Uber has made Taxi operators better for Indian cab drivers.

Pre-Uber (and Ola), operators used to pay drivers 60-90 days post. They would
make arbitrary deductions, which the drivers could not protest.

Post-Uber, most drivers choose to go to Uber/Ola. Drivers say that the
operators have cleaned up their act now. They pay 15-30 days post. They pay
the right amounts, no deductions. In fact some drivers prefer to work with the
operators..

------
dylanjermiah
Outlawing competition worsens any service.

------
thesz
The answer is No, per Betteridge's law of headlines.

The first thing article mentioned is lesser number of complaints in cab
services. They present it as if Uber makes taxi better, but it can be that
those who complained just switched to the Uber.

And complained there - who knows?

