
Gas selling for under $1 per gallon in 13 US states - finphil
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-gas-prices-20200419-6uvja5pxbvaxtozm4l3372aewy-story.html
======
dang
We probably don't need both oil and gas on the front page.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22923025](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22923025)

------
exhilaration
Pro-tip, if you're driving very, very little look up an ethanol-free gas
station on pure-gas.org and fill up there when your tank is nearly empty.
It'll cost more but you don't want ethanol sitting in your gas tank, fuel
filter, and engine for months. An alternative is fuel stabilizer but make sure
you do your math correctly and don't add to much or or too little.

I predict a surge in cars that won't start when the stay-at-home orders are
lifted.

~~~
tricky
This is 100% correct. After about 6 months in the tank, ethanol gas starts
turning into sticky garbage that doesn't want to burn. I have a few classic
cars that sit a lot. A couple times a year I drive an hour to my nearest
ethanol-free gas station with a trunk load of gas cans. I'm sure it is
incredibly dangerous, but I haven't had any fuel system problems since I
started doing it.

~~~
londons_explore
From a science perspective, why does ethanol become sticky? Whiskey doesn't
get sticky when it gets old...

~~~
tricky
sorry, "sticky" is wrong in the context of ethanol gas in a modern-ish tank
for a few months. However, when any gasoline is exposed to oxygen it forms
solids called "gums." My 1971 car has a tank that's vented to the air so it
did form a layer of sticky gunk after about 15 years of sitting. Ethanol
absorbs water which makes it "not want to burn," corrosive to metal components
and it will deteriorate plastics and gaskets. Modern fuel systems are designed
with this in mind. But, my '79 Porsche 928 with its mechanical fuel injection
(an analog computer that runs on fuel and air pressures) really hates it.

------
blakesterz
I didn't check all of the states that are under $1, but here in NY all of the
locations listed that are under $1 are Indian Reservations. Reservations here
sell gas, and cigarettes (and a bunch of other stuff) without the
state/federal taxes, so it's way WAY cheaper. I assume this is the same in all
states?

In my area it's still around $2/gallon. I'm not close enough to a reservation
to bother making the drive, but many people (especially smokers) make regular
drives to get gas and smokes.

~~~
kgermino
I paid $0.97 at a Costco in Wisconsin the other day.

That said, I’m not sure why it was so cheap there. The going rate at other
stations was about $1.39 and they’re usually closer together than that.

~~~
lotsofpulp
The other gas stations are profiting off of the spread until people realize
they can get it much cheaper at Costco or other gas stations.

Costco reacts quicker because they probably don't care about making money on
gasoline, and they have a goal to always be offering it at or near cost.

~~~
AdamJacobMuller
Costco doesn't care about making money on the things they sell, in general.

Costco makes more money from membership fees [1] and this is basically their
stated business model. They try to sell everything at a small markup (just
covering overhead) and the membership fees are basically profit.

[1] [https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/how-costco-
actuall...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/how-costco-actually-
makes-money.aspx)

[https://thehustle.co/costco-membership-
economics](https://thehustle.co/costco-membership-economics) is a good read
too.

------
m-i-l
In not entirely unrelated news, some electricity providers in the UK have been
paying you to charge your electric car[0] today. There have been other days
recently where the "agile pricing" has also gone below zero, e.g. 5 April[1].
With the lockdown no-one is supposed to drive anywhere unless absolutely
essential though (so e.g. the NHS doesn't have to deal with casualties from
traffic accidents), and they're talking about banning cars on some roads for a
period when lockdown is lifted[2] (to make it easier for people to walk or
cycle).

[0]
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/04/20/a-rare-...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/04/20/a-rare-
covid-19-upside-homeowners-being-paid-to-use-electricity/)

[1] [https://www.energy-stats.uk/agile-price-plunges/](https://www.energy-
stats.uk/agile-price-plunges/)

[2] [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-
environment-52353942](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52353942)

------
ruddct
Sounds like a great time to shore up state budgets by raising the gas tax.

~~~
unethical_ban
It's cheap because it's in low demand at the moment. You'd only be taxing
essential workers (thanks for risking your health because we have no social
safety net) and logistics, which would raise prices for the consumer.

I just don't think now is the time to raise the gas tax.

------
tsuru
The last time I remember these prices was 1998-ish. A quick online inflation
checker tells me this is would be like $0.63 USD / gallon then.

------
taytus
Price for Netflix monthly subscription: $12.99

Price for a barrel of oil: $11.50

If you simply cancel your Netflix subscription and store oil in your
backyard...you'll be really bored and have a bunch of oil in your backyard

Source:
[https://twitter.com/awealthofcs/status/1252206952064614406](https://twitter.com/awealthofcs/status/1252206952064614406)

~~~
tengbretson
It's better than that! Used steel barrels go for around $29 a piece. All you
need to do is buy oil, dump it out somewhere, and then sell the barrel for $17
profit!

~~~
PakG1
See, this is why we need a good EPA in the US and similarly good in other
countries. To protect against capitalists like you who don't care about
externalities. ;) Now go make a financial derivative so I can trade on used
steel barrels.

~~~
tengbretson
With these profit margins I should easily be able to afford a fancy national
marketing campaign to cover my ass. I can see it now.

 _Oil – It comes from the earth. We 're just returning it._

------
solotronics
The US should buy the oil then pump it back into the shale. We can call it "in
ground strategic reserves".

------
dxbydt
I have been averaging a dollar per gallon for over a year now in Indiana. Just
get a gas card. At my store
[https://www.kroger.com/fuelfaqs?storeNumber=02900364](https://www.kroger.com/fuelfaqs?storeNumber=02900364)
"up to 1,000 fuel points can be redeemed for up to 1 dollar off per gallon at
Kroger Fuel Centers in a single transaction" So I buy my groceries, accumulate
1000 fuel points & then fill up once a month. Ofcourse, it all balances out -
my wife has an EV & pays $150 back to the state :(
[https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/states-
that-...](https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/states-that-charge-
extra-fees-to-own-an-electric-vehicle)

~~~
brianwawok
The downside (also from Indiana) is you have to go to Kroger. It’s about the
third chain in line of grocery stores I want to go to due to general dirtiness
and high end product selection.

~~~
dxbydt
Sorry, I am relatively new to your state. This my second year in Indiana. I
tried going to Meijer [https://www.meijer.com/](https://www.meijer.com/) a few
times. imo clientele's too posh & everything felt too upscale, clean & stuck
up. I tend to skew blue collar. When I think grocery I want a see an unkempt
farmer pull up in a truck & dump 100 pounds of broccoli in crates so there's
stalk and leaves all over the store, and that is exactly Kroger. I then get to
pick up the broccoli for a dollar. If I go to Meijer they wrap the broccoli
nicely in plastic & charge $5. I don't have that kind of spare change. For $5
you can rent a whole vm on linode & get a business going.

~~~
cableshaft
I know a guy that thinks Meijer is below him, and won't shop there. Likens it
to a low-grade Wal-mart. And he lives near me and so I know which Meijer's
he's been to, and there's nothing wrong with those stores.

I certainly have no problem shopping there, and I think it's cleaner than most
local stores (that aren't high end, there's quite a few of those around here),
certainly better than Wal-mart, although Wal-Mart does have a better delivery
service, we just found out yesterday.

Meijer has cheaper Broccoli than that. Just checked their website, and you can
get broccoli for $2 a pound, or a giant 32 oz bag of fresh florets for $5,
which I guess is what you're referring to, but that's easier to cook with and
prepare, so there's probably more demand for it in that form, and has similar
prices elsewhere (my local Wal-Mart has that priced at $6 right now). You can
also buy 12 oz bags of frozen broccoli for $1 each right now at Meijer.

And I'm near Chicago, which is probably more expensive than Indiana. Even the
Whole Foods near me is only selling broccoli for $2.50 a pound.

------
downshun
Out of curiosity: How cheap does gas need to get to generate electricity
profitably using a generator?

I know it is flat out a bad idea in principle to compete against a dedicated
large scale producer. But still wondering.

Edit: Maybe I should ask r/theydidthemath

~~~
chasd00
i wonder how fast power plants can switch from lng to gasoline? Man, just when
you think we can't get further into bizzaro-world..

------
tdons
Why aren't people filling up big tanks? I don't get it.

~~~
blhack
Because gasoline goes bad eventually.

As far as oil: some are. Often times in the form of huge tankers floating off
the coast.

------
Cactus2018
The website\app GasBuddy has a great US gas price heat map. Data is updated
through in-app gamification.

[https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap](https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap)

A few screenshots -
[https://postimg.cc/gallery/4YLTqLH](https://postimg.cc/gallery/4YLTqLH)

~~~
driverdan
Use the website, not the app. The app is spyware and regularly sends them your
location data in the background.

~~~
tekromancr
Oh... Oh no. If you don't like that then I have some REALLY bad news about
literally every other app.

~~~
driverdan
Nice whataboutism. Call out those apps too if they get promoted here.

------
chiefalchemist
This is not good news. Oil/energy is an economic lubricant. The depth and
breadth of its reach and power exceeds The Fed.

In the USA, the 2007/08 recession was softened (?) by keeping energy prices
low. Increase in domestic product - via fracking - being the key.

Without fuel prices as an economic tool the dynamic and predictabily of the
coming recovery will be greatly limited.

------
azinman2
What I don’t understand is why it’s so much more in CA. It can’t just be
taxes; it’s only 0.47c [1]. So why is it often $1-2 more?

[1] [https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/sales-tax-rates-
for-...](https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/sales-tax-rates-for-
fuels.htm)

~~~
ilikehurdles
Probably mostly supply and demand. People in CA might have more disposable
income than those in Wisconsin. Texas isn't under $1 despite having low taxes
and lots of nearby oil drilling.

~~~
azinman2
So you’re saying supply is restricted in CA? How can that be? We have now
shortages of gas stations, and no shortages of gas. In fact we have many
refineries here.

~~~
Domenic_S
Tax is closer to $1 [0]. Gas stations are supply restricted in the sense that
their storage tanks are finite in size although it seems to me most of the
price is because they can.

[0] [https://www.ocregister.com/2019/04/16/californias-gas-
taxes-...](https://www.ocregister.com/2019/04/16/californias-gas-taxes-total-
nearly-1-per-gallon-and-include-a-28-cent-mystery-surcharge/)

~~~
azinman2
The federal taxes are true for everyone. So you can subtract that from your
difference across the US.

But there’s no lack of competition, and plenty of apps like gas buddy that aid
in that. That should put pressure to reduce prices, yet neighboring states can
be so much lower. Something else is going on.

------
foobarian
Too bad I'm not driving at all now and don't have any place to store large
amounts of gasoline.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Of course, the reason you're not driving right now is also the reason prices
are so low.

You can't beat the system...

~~~
mrweasel
Not the only reason. Until last week Russia and Saudi Arabia was in a price
war, which was/is a large part of the reason for the low gas prices, at least
in the EU.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
My understanding was that the price war was still, indirectly, caused by the
Coronavirus. The price was dropping a little early on when the virus was
mostly confined to China, and the OPEC countries couldn't agree on who should
cut production... so they broke up and made everything worse.

[https://www.npr.org/2020/03/11/814529252/episode-978-coronav...](https://www.npr.org/2020/03/11/814529252/episode-978-coronavirus-
oil-and-kansas)

------
BooneJS
I filled my car in Wisconsin for the first time in 2 months at $0.989 for 87
octane. I think the last time I paid that price the attendant filled it for
me.

------
ipnon
The official reasoning for the current Fed's unprecedented quantitative easing
is to prevent deflating prices like these from lasting long-term.

------
chasd00
I saw it for $1.17 in Sherman TX yesterday. The lowest i've ever seen gas was
around $0.96 sometime in the 90s

------
JoeAltmaier
In other news: local restaurants are dumping alcoholic drinks out 'the back
door' for a song. Because, dated.

Don't get used to low prices. It's gonna change.

------
subsubzero
And yet in the sf bay area gas is still close to $3..

~~~
isoskeles
Here's a nice breakdown of the factors for that price. Taxes are around 72c of
that gallon, on March 30th.

[https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoli...](https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoline/margins/index_cms.php)

I'd love to see updated numbers on this.

------
Flockster
Can not read this article from the EU.. But the headline amounts to ~ 0,24€
per liter.

~~~
purple-again
The only real meat from the article:

The states on that list include New York, Michigan, Arkansas, Mississippi,
Oklahoma, Ohio, Colorado, Missouri, Iowa, Virginia, Wisconsin, Kansas and
Kentucky.

Keep in mind though that prices are not in any way shape or form set at the
state level. This could just mean that one small region of the state has that
price while the major metro areas where 95% of the states population live are
250% higher still.

~~~
gccxsse
>the major metro areas where 95% of the states population live

Do you have anything to back this up?

~~~
bluesquared
I live in one of the large metros in Ohio, prices are all still
$1.30-1.50/gallon here. Like most of the locations in the article, I would
guess the sub-dollar prices are very isolated locations or special
circumstances (no-tax native american reservations like I saw in other
comments?)

~~~
heywire
$1.07 in the Dayton area...

------
ungzd
Is this website about internal combustion engine fuels? Or it's just an
aggregator of all american newspapers? I thought HN is something about
software and programming.

~~~
dang
That's mistaken. HN is about anything intellectually interesting:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

Of course, repetition is not intellectually interesting so we try to keep the
front page relatively free of it.

------
gwbas1c
One of my cars is a long-range Tesla, the other is a plug-in hybrid that can
go about 30-ish miles on a battery.

At the beginning of the lockdown, I looked at my wife and said, "let's stop
touching icky gas handles during this whole thing and make sure we only charge
at home."

So all of our distance driving uses the Tesla, and we use the plug-in hybrid
for in town driving.

Haven't touched an icky gas pump yet!

~~~
speedgoose
Is Tesla the ArchLinux of cars manufacturers?

By the way, why are you driving long distance during a lockdown?

~~~
shrimp_emoji
Tesla's the Apple of cars.

The Arch of cars:
[https://ea0e05a6ffc83d5fb84e-cbd7b9ff6ab9d7e4de0720aa602bc9d...](https://ea0e05a6ffc83d5fb84e-cbd7b9ff6ab9d7e4de0720aa602bc9d7.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/vid23573776_v1AUTH_svc.pdoc00001PIX1119701564b-cf13-4dc8-9001-59e7da6bcdd1.JPG__275x206.jpg)

The Manjaro of cars:
[https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c2/2a/eb/c22aebc3121882e6d54a12372...](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c2/2a/eb/c22aebc3121882e6d54a1237230cf058.jpg)

The Debian of cars: [https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/right-
front...](https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/right-
front-9-e1493572938347.jpg)

The Ubuntu of cars:
[http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/05/2018-Honda-...](http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/05/2018-Honda-
Odyssey-side-view-02.jpg)

~~~
Aloha
The debian of cars would totally be a crown victoria.

