
John McCain has died - aaronbrethorst
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/obituaries/john-mccain-dead.html
======
dopeboy
I got to live in Iowa in the summer of 2007 for an engineering internship at
Rockwell Collins. One bonus of that was getting to go to all the rallies. I
went to a McCain rally and an Obama rally.

I remember the energy of the room when Obama came in. The crowd was young and
loud. Obama got up and gave his usual stump speech and then went around to
shake hands. I shook his hand and got a word or two in but I could tell he
wasn't really interested in talking to me and moved on.

I went to a McCain rally a couple weeks later. A much older crowd and a little
more subdued. This was around the time MoveOn was criticizing General Petraeus
over his surge in Iraq policy. McCain was upset about this so the mood at the
venue, which was a VFW, was a little more bitter. McCain gave a speech which
was different than Obama's, a little more off-the-cuff and a little more
angry. I remember him talking _with_ the audience rather than _to_ the
audience like Obama.

Afterwards, he shook hands with everyone and paused for a conversation. I
remember talking to him about STEM programs and the importance of producing
more engineers here in the U.S. He looked me in the eyes the whole time, was
genuinely curious about my background, and wished me good luck at the end [0].

I ended up voting and working for Obama but I'll never forget that day and how
genuine and down-to-earth McCain was with me.

[0] -
[https://twitter.com/manishsinhaha/status/1033516157343387648](https://twitter.com/manishsinhaha/status/1033516157343387648)

~~~
LanceH
I maintain this was a major reason for Bush defeating Kerry. I saw news
stories on both of them one night and they were both in jeans. Kerry looked
like they were purchased so he could dress down as the people do. The jeans
looked like they had never been worn, maybe a dress shirt tucked in. Bush on
the other hand was at Camp David casually talking to the press outdoors while
his dog happily circled him.

It's not really how we should be deciding the presidency, but Kerry put off a
strong vibe that he's not one of "us". The democrats need to embrace the
actual people in their popularity.

~~~
arcticbull
This is a genuine question, I'm not leading here. Do you think this has to do
with anti-intellectualism, jealousy or is there more at play here? I wouldn't
want an average joe to run the country, I want someone truly extraordinary.
Better suited to the role, more experienced, smarter, better dressed and
showing it. I don't want the stereotypical truck stop waiter/waitress, you
know? It's not fair as they may be just as qualified of course. What is so
wrong with being an 'elite' in the political sphere?

How do you think an average middle-of-the-road person would feel if an
'average joe' was promoted to be their boss? I'd guess probably not great...

~~~
mortdeus
The reason politicians try to dress down is that they want to give off the
impression that they can relate to the experiences of most Americans. The
general idea being, "How could this person ever promote policy that benefits
me, if they don't understand what it's like to be me?"

The irony is that most successful people in the world were rarely ever born
with a silver spoon in their mouth. Kerry was actually one of those few
candidates that I wished got their shot because his war record wasn't anything
less but admirable. John Mccain's war record was far and beyond even his
considering his many years being a POW.

They sacrificed so much for this country and yet the people only resonate with
the candidates that seem hip nowadays.

~~~
tozeur
Those candidates were more “hip” to older demographics because those people
actually lived through those wars and knew what it meant to serve in those
wars.

------
BoysenberryPi
John McCain did somethings that I disagree with but the one thing I will
always remember is when during the 2008 election there were multiple times
during town halls and rallies that people would verbally attack Obama and
McCain always shut them down without fail.

~~~
chx
His concession speech:

> I urge all Americans who supported me to join me in not just congratulating
> him, but offering our next president our good will and earnest effort to
> find ways to come together to find the necessary compromises to bridge our
> differences and help restore our prosperity, defend our security in a
> dangerous world, and leave our children and grandchildren a stronger, better
> country than we inherited.

> It's natural, tonight, to feel some disappointment. But tomorrow, we must
> move beyond it and work together to get our country moving again.

If I might add, ten years later: it seems "the necessary compromises to bridge
our differences" were not found.

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
Of course he also said if Hillary won that he would refuse to confirm Garland
for the entirety of her presidency...

~~~
krferriter
I mean that's due to a disagreement in politics. He wasn't calling her a
demonic satan-worshipping child trafficker like some on that side of the
spectrum were.

~~~
snuxoll
Certainly, but that doesn't make it okay. In general things weren't rosy with
his political career, his reputation for being a "maverick" that would buck
party leadership was laughable since he ended up toeing the party line more
often that not, even when he decided to speak out against {X} idiotic move
they made he would still put a "Yea" in for the vote.

With that said I think he genuinely wanted what was best for the country, even
if we never saw eye to eye on what "best" actually was.

------
war1025
My dad died from the same cancer about a year before McCain was diagnosed.
Terrible, terrible thing to go through.

I feel bad writing it out, but it gives me a bit of comfort to know it isn't
something that could have been managed with the added resources of someone on
the national stage like McCain.

The first surgery is pretty amazing because they can get almost all of the
cancer out, and all the weird behavior just disappears and you have a normal
person back. And then you have a year or so to swallow that fact that it's all
going to come back and you've been handed a death sentence. Since the cancer
is in your brain, they can't be as aggressive as they are in other parts of
your body. Also, the cancer cells worm their way into all the cracks and
crevices, so what started out as one tumor turns into a whole pile of tumors
the second time around.

Probably the most painful memory I have is we were watching a movie and my dad
didn't believe me that it wasn't a movie about my life and he thought I was
lying to him when I said it was just a movie we were watching. Seeing someone
you respect laid low like that is rough. Sort of like a very fast moving
alzheimers.

Puts life in perspective though. Dad died at 58. I'll be 30 this year. Halfway
to the grave. No time to waste putting things off till "later".

~~~
jabl
Lost my mother to the same. Doctors gave her a year, but in the end she died
less than 5 months from the diagnosis. She was 62.

~~~
baxtr
I had a similar experience. My mum had cancer, they gave her “good 7-10”
years, she died after 3. I don’t get why they not say instead: “we don’t know.
Say everything you want to say, do everything you want to do. Quickly. Be
greateful for every (additional) day.”

~~~
jabl
I guess it depends. I prefer to be given the available data, even though there
are large variances attached to the estimates.

So no, I'm not bitter at the doctors because my mother didn't "beat" their
estimate. Not everyone can reach the average. Sadly my mother was one of them,
but that's just how things go sometimes.

------
ahurmazda
"Asked how he wanted to be remembered, McCain said: 'He served his country,
and not always right—made a lot of mistakes, made a lot of errors—but served
his country, and, I hope we could add, honorably.'"

Last part always gets me. It takes a lot of humility to accept mistakes. RIP
an honorable man

------
ransom1538
"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and followed
his father and grandfather—both four-star admirals—into the U.S. Navy. He
became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers.
During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire.
While McCain was on a bombing mission over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot
down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. He was a
prisoner of war until 1973. McCain experienced episodes of torture and refused
an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. The wounds that he sustained
during war have left him with lifelong physical disabilities. He retired from
the Navy as a captain in 1981 and moved to Arizona, where he entered politics.
In 1982, McCain was elected to the United States House of Representatives,
where he served two terms. He entered the U.S. Senate in 1987 and easily won
reelection five times, most recently in 2016. "

Well, _I_ just finished a cool CRUD app.

~~~
aerovistae
I dislike this mentality and wish to dissent.

I feel bad about playing video games sometimes and have to remind myself of
the photograph called Hubble Deep Field. Look it up if you haven’t seen it
before.

Do what you want to and don’t stop yourself from enjoying it by comparing your
life to some famous person or some blogger. It’s easy to feel bad when you
read a biography of Augustus....why aim low and settle for comparing to
McCain?

If you want to attempt great things, go for it, but don’t start thinking a
comfortable and peaceful life (which is the only thing so many people
throughout history yearned for and were denied) is “not enough.”

~~~
EpicEng
I don't think the parent was implying that everyone could or should live a
life like McCain, or that anything else is "not enough", only that this is a
remarkable person who led a remarkable existence on earth. He touched the
lives more people and affected more change than most of us could ever dream
of, and that's something to admire.

------
Someone1234
I admire people who put country ahead of party. Therefore I admired John
McCain, even when I disagreed with him, I never questioned his motives.

Good guy, who served with honor. Will be missed.

------
b_b
Here goes sadly one of the last remaining examples of a respectful and
dignified politician, no matter the political party of the other.

~~~
paulcole
Which political party was his wife?

[https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/07/report-mccains-
pro...](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/07/report-mccains-profane-
ti_n_95429.html)

------
wpasc
May he rest in peace. Being tortured and refusing to leave before other
americans from prison camp alone makes him a hero.

~~~
anothergoogler
It says something about the state of US politics that the sitting president
unapologetically denigrated McCain's service and sacrifice. And did it on the
campaign trail, just eight years after McCain was the nominee!

Washington Post had something about it yesterday
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bad-blood-between-
mc...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bad-blood-between-mccain-and-
trump-lingers-even-as-the-arizona-republican-nears-the-
end/2018/08/24/923bc0e2-a7b6-11e8-a656-943eefab5daf_story.html)

------
tzs
The comment section on the story about this on Foxnew.com [1] is eye-opening.
At the moment it is about 1/3 celebrating his death and complaining that he
was really a RINO or closet liberal, 1/3 not commenting on his death but
complaining about the RINO/closet liberal stuff, and 1/3 expressing sorrow at
his death.

[1] [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/25/john-mccain-
dead-...](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/25/john-mccain-dead-
at-81.html)

Addendum: the comments section seems to have been removed from that story.

~~~
cabaalis
Midterm elections are near. The astroturfing is strong. You should believe
less than 1/3 of the comments you read are actually genuine.

~~~
davrosthedalek
I hope you are right. I had the chance to read some of it before it was
removed. Atrocious.

------
throwawat2342
Just a reminder that McCain advocated for the violent overthrow of multiple
other countries. How dignified you sound in a speech doesn't matter when
there's the blood of the many on your hands. He reached across the aisle
because the Democrats love killing people too. Rep. Barbara Lee was the sole
no vote on the AUMF.

For those of you that met him in person and were impressed by his personality,
most halfway decent politicians can pull that off, that's how they got
elected. His domestic politics were standard conservative fare, and was
against raising taxes on the rich to provide for human need. McCain failed us
and menaced the world.

[https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/john-mccain-
wor...](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/john-mccain-world-attack-
map-syria/)

[https://www.liberationnews.org/john-mccain-war-criminal-
not-...](https://www.liberationnews.org/john-mccain-war-criminal-not-war-
hero/)

[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2018/8/25/17778146/j...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2018/8/25/17778146/john-mccain-dies-torture-legacy-waterboarding-
enhanced-interrogation-cia)

[https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/john-mccain-
for...](https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/john-mccain-foreign-
policy-even-worse-bush)

[http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/...](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2008/05/worse_than_bush.html)

------
liquidise
America lost a publicly principled man today. RIP sir.

As a related meta-analysis of the response to his passing, i am surprised how
many comments here include disclaimers to the appreciation offered. "I didn't
agree with him but...".

Have we become this partisan as a people? Our semi-anonymous respects for the
passing of a prominent figure must be disclaimer-ed with political editorials.
A worrying trend.

~~~
untog
> Our semi-anonymous respects for the passing of a prominent figure must be
> disclaimer-ed with political editorials.

I mean, he was a politician.

And I don't think people are saying that to disclaim their appreciation at
all, they're saying it to underline the fact that their appreciation exists
despite a deep disagreement with his politics.

------
anonu
Just a reminder that Republican vs Democrat doesn't ultimately matter. I think
McCain embodied that belief through his long years of service to the USA, his
willingness to reach across the aisle and through his values and ideals
(integrity, respect, honesty) from which he did not waver.

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
Could you explain your opening statement a little?

The way I'm interpreting it implies that the platform differences between
those parties isn't really important in any way.

~~~
anonu
I mean a few things. For the most part I'm being a bit fatalist: we are all
going to die and we are all going to end up in the same place. So the journey
through our lives should be one where we embrace other people's differences
instead of rail against them.

McCain, to me, seemed to embody values that showed a willingness to work with
people who shared different views. He put his nation before himself. That's
partly what I was alluding to..

------
lerxst
John McCain was a true American hero, dedicating his life to the United
States. I did not always agree with him, but he will truly be missed,
especially during the current political climate. May he rest in peace.

------
hncommenter13
FWIW, This American Life ran a great piece by Michael Lewis on John McCain's
relationship with David Ifshin.

Ifshin was a prominent Vietnam war protestor (and Democrat) who later
developed a relationship with McCain.

[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/41/politics/act-
four](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/41/politics/act-four)

------
beltex
May he rest in peace.

Glioblastoma is particularly awful, even in the realm of cancer. Two books I
found quite interesting on neurosurgery and cancer as a whole.

 _Do No Harm: Stories of Life, Death, and Brain Surgery_

by _Henry Marsh_

and

 _The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer_

by _Siddhartha Mukherjee_

------
Tycho
Not everyone is convinced about John McCain’s heroism and integrity.

[http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-
ran-...](http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-
president/)

------
rpiguy
John McCain’s first wife was a model who had a car accident that left her
crippled and eroded her good looks. John McCain then cheated on her and then
left her, eventually remarrying a younger, very attractive, very heiress.

By most biographical accounts he was not a nice man in private, very
egocentric, and had a very carefully constructed and well-maintained public
image.

He also was a POW to a brutal, Communist regime, a real war hero.

It was sad to see him go to such a terrible disease.

A complicated man indeed.

~~~
khazhoux
> John McCain’s first wife was a model who had a car accident that left her
> crippled and eroded her good looks. John McCain then cheated on her and then
> left her, eventually remarrying a younger, very attractive, very heiress.

...and then stayed married for 38 years until his death.

Also, he and Carol were married only 2 years before he was shot down and they
then spent 6 years apart, and then 6 years together post- her accident.

So it's a bit cheap to cast him as just a trophy-wife chaser, who ditched his
amazing first marriage the moment her looks got messed up.

~~~
rpiguy
Yes he waited long enough to ensure a divorce wouldn’t sink his political
career, which it could have back in those days...

~~~
unfunco
You know what they say… speak ill of the dead.

You may not have liked McCain politically, but it's probably best to keep
quiet about intimate things such as his romantic intentions or past
relationships, your comment is sleazy and cheap, and I'm almost certain you're
not an authority on those aspects of his life.

~~~
rpiguy
Great example of inversion right there. What McCain did to his first wife was
sleazy, reminding people of it is not sleazy. This is the #metoo era, we are
all moral absolutists now, particularly in the treatment of women.

Of course I am not an authority on those aspects of his life, doesn't mean I
can't speak about it or have an opinion about it. This is after all a
discussion forum, which by its nature should encourage alternative views and
opinions.

I like McCain, I voted for him twice (primary in 2000 against Bush, and again
in 2008 against Obama). I even liked Palin, before she self-imploded.

------
js2
John McCain dedicated his entire adult life to serving America with dignity,
courage and honor. We need more McCains in the world, not fewer. RIP.

~~~
tooltalk
I don't want to insult the dead. But if we had more McCains, his stubbornness
and militarism would lead to greater welfare and warfare states with American
soldiers fighting someone else's civil wars all over the world.

~~~
js2
I agree with few of McCain’s political positions.

However, he served with dignity. He was willing to compromise and admit
mistakes. I believe he cared more about America than about being a politician,
and that he voted what he felt was best for the country, not just his party
line.

If I have to disagree with a fellow American, McCain is the type of person I
want to disagree with. You could box with McCain without worrying whether he’d
try to hit below the belt.

In an era no-holds-barred politics, McCain represents a past way of doing
things that will be sorely missed.

------
davrosthedalek
The world lost a true statesman. What a sad day.

~~~
ruskerdax
Yeah, if hackers are known for anything, it's being big fans of statesmen,
especially ones that approved the PATRIOT Act (twice), extending its
wiretapping provisions, and sponsoring a bill that would let the US government
detain anyone in the world indefinitely without trial.

Truly a sad day.

~~~
rpiguy
Agree Hacker News really isn’t an appropriate name for this forum anymore, but
that is a topic that deserves its own thread.

On topic, loss is sad when anyone dies, even if they hold views you find
abhorent. They leave behind friends and family and remind us of our own
mortality and the one thing we all have in common (finite existence).

~~~
ruskerdax
Ascribe whatever personal significance to the death of a famous person you
wish. McCain's "views" and career as a statesman have little relevance to
hackers and hacking except where he personally acted in ways which affect
hackers and technology they use. This is the basis on which I commented.

------
hirundo
John McCain, a hero of a lost war, a senator whose signature law was
overturned, a contender in a lost presidential race. For all of his integrity,
accomplishment and hard work his life's efforts were largely futile.

Except for his family. A more fitting epitaph may be: John McCain, Father,
Husband, Son. And that's not bad at all.

~~~
unit91
> his life's efforts were largely futile

Tell that to the guys he provided close air support for. I've been on the
ground when it comes down. Years later I'm still thankful and it brings tears
to my eyes.

~~~
hirundo
Agreed. I was searching for a word to use in the epitaph to represent that,
maybe Wingman or Comrade.

------
leolll
"Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb Iran" -McCain

That's what I remember him for. He later said he was just joking. As if joking
about killing thousands of people is somehow better.

~~~
ericd
I mean, that's pretty obviously a joke, even with no context. It's a riff on
the lyrics to a Beach Boys song.

~~~
Jach
McCain himself points that out:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg)

I remember him for that one but also for advocating the permanent military
presence, like South Korea, going forward in Iraq.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf7HYoh9YMM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf7HYoh9YMM)

I'm somewhat surprised that HN seems to have such a hardon for the man, and
every negative comment is being downvoted / flagged. I remember pretty clearly
how Obama-obsessed the tech world was in 2008, and even Family Guy did a
"we're not saying he's a nazi but nazis support him" routine:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRHL5QlwA-g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRHL5QlwA-g)
What happened to make the HN crowd change their opinion (did McCain fight back
against software patents at some point despite being a self-admitted computer
illiterate?), or was it always glowing and the subject just didn't come up?

~~~
tntn
> What happened

He died, and most people tend to talk only about good stuff out of respect
immediately afterward. You don't see people getting up and criticizing the
deceased at funerals.

~~~
Jach
If you didn't respect the person when they were alive, it makes no sense to
respect them when they die. A lot of people are happy he's gone. Funerals are
only typically attended by people who personally care, so of course you won't
hear criticism there; this forum is not a funeral.

~~~
ericd
Many Democrats who voted against him and disagreed with his policies still
respected him as a person. I count myself among them. It's sad that people let
their political tribalism get so intense that they're happy that their
opponent is dead.

------
jerx
not a big fan of mccain's, appreciated his service to the us during the
vietnam war and senate, and pity to see him go out that way lately.

------
xvf22
Met him once and was oddly taken aback and impressed. The nation has lost a
hero that while I did not agree with on many issues I respected.

------
khazhoux
John McCain came to give a talk at the place I worked in '07\. I got to shake
his hand and say a couple of words to him. I remember exactly two things:

\- His hand was very soft. Notably so.

\- His face, his skin, looked translucent. Scot-Irish background indeed.

So, not much of a story to tell, but if you want to know what it was like to
see him up close... ^^^

------
AdamM12
Wish I wasn't so young when he ran against Obama in '08\. Paid no attention
and missed my opportunity to vote for him. Ran a really respectful campaign.
HBO doc on him was really good too. Nasty stuff about his adopted
(Bangledeshi) daughter when he ran against Bush. Just an amazing guy.

------
PovilasID
I live in country that would not be in NATO or maybe even egzist without his
unconditional principals and restless dedication to them. I respect this man

------
root_axis
He was a complicated guy. I wish his family well.

------
kchhina
Man had integrity. And I respect that about him. Even though I didn’t agree
with everything he stood for. Rest In Peace, sir.

------
exabrial
Didn't agree with his politics, but the guy left a legacy. RIP and thank you
for your service to our country.

------
Giorgi
As a Georgian (The country one) we are immensely grateful for all he has said
for support of our country while we needed it the most.

While Russia is invading and expanding occupation and impotent Europe is
"Concerned" and Obama or Trump did not do jack shit, McCain was only one to
voice up and support really small country against huge money he could have
earned from Putin like others do.

Fuck cancer and Fuck Russia

------
forkLding
RIP McCain

------
boonasty69
So Sad heart goes out to the family.

------
boonasty69
So sad, heart goes out.

------
sonnyblarney
Hero, Gentleman.

------
jaequery
for the sake of humility, shouldn't we be saying "passed away", instead of
"died"?

~~~
dctoedt
Not sure it's in any way un-humble to use the plain and simple verb "died"
instead of a euphemism.

------
jim-jim-jim
The man never saw a war he didn't like. Good riddance.

------
mynameishere
I'll always feel a little bad for guys who get stuck with the bound-to-lose
candidacies. From Adlai Stevenson to Bob Dole to John McCain, it's basically,
"Here, the fix is already in and we need you to lose to this other jerk."
That's not the footnote I'd prefer for myself.

He was a real RINO though.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
The RINO label was always very stupid. As if politicians in the USA had to
always be factional, that they couldn’t have their own positions that came in
either side of the spectrum. Just idiotic.

There is no such thing as true Republican anyways. I mean, look at Trump, he,
like Bush, obviously isn’t a fiscal conservative and doesn’t care about the
deficit. That anti deficit position only comes up when a democrat is in
charge, and is promptly forgotten afterwards.

McCain was an effective politician because he was a maverick, and he shouldn't
be chastised for his independence.

------
singularity2001
His most important legacy is this chart:

[http://www.climateoutcome.kiwi.nz/uploads/1/7/4/3/17431675/7...](http://www.climateoutcome.kiwi.nz/uploads/1/7/4/3/17431675/700015_orig.png)

(we are now at 415ppm, so +22 Fahrenheit expected)

Remember he would have been president if the military (Cheney+Bush) had not
taken over.

