
It’s time to give Firefox a fresh chance - Tomte
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/15/17239548/firefox-chrome-safari-competition
======
giancarlostoro
I never gave up on Firefox. I always knew Google Chrome was sending back
telemetry data or whatever and never looked back. Also with how many sites are
"only working in Chrome" these days I still hold the claim that Chrome is
working itself to being the next IE in terms of breaking the web for people
using other browsers. I still hold respect for Chrome in other areas though.

Firefox was always complained about but honestly I never noticed any
differences that mattered especially with how ad encrusted the web has become
these days. In fact I could never enjoy Chrome the same way I enjoy Firefox it
just behaves and feels the way I've grown to know and enjoy.

We have a major issue with websites poorly supporting mobile browsers and
websites being cross-browser friendly overall. The web still feels a little
immature in these respects.

~~~
scarface74
What sites only work with Chrome? Even though Safari has a minuscule desktop
market share, I can't see most sites being incompatible with iOS.

~~~
marpstar
It's not so much about "sites", as it is "apps". The most recent instance I
recall is this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16467387](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16467387)

Open this page in a browser other than Chrome:
[https://pagedraw.io/tutorials/basics](https://pagedraw.io/tutorials/basics)

~~~
scarface74
That makes sense - no it's not right. A "web app" can get away with only being
compatible with Chrome on the desktop because they would likely have a native
app for mobile.

------
zeta0134
I switched to Firefox as my primary browser a couple of months ago, and have
been happy enough that I haven't looked back. It is significantly more smooth
and performant than it was; the work on Quantum cannot be understated, and the
minor fiasco with their extensions ecosystem, though painful, I feel was the
right move. With that said, a few anecdotes keep jumping out at me:

\- Pocket integration. Dive into about:config, turn it off, lather rinse
repeat on every device and every fresh OS install. I have about a dozen.

\- The default theme has two large "spacer" elements that shrink the address
bar towards the center. These might not bother anyone else, but they drove me
nuts; fortunately they can be removed with the customization menu.

\- Bookmarks sync well (yay!) but don't always retain the same ordering on
each device, which gets a bit confusing. I can work around this easily enough,
but it's not quite as smooth as the same feature on Chrome.

\- JavaScript performance is not as fast as Chrome. This is normally a non-
issue, but occasionally I'll run into someone's ShowHN demo here and find that
while it technically works, the performance is sometimes quite slow. Ditto for
anything using WebGL. Again, mostly a non-issue, but I do find myself firing
up Chrome to run the odd app.

Most of these issues are relatively minor, and fortunately Firefox still has a
fantastically intelligent community, so any time I ran into an issue the
solution was a quick search away. I think the value add in feeling like I'm in
more control of my browser is well worth it, and I hope Mozilla continues
moving in this direction. More competition is good!

~~~
gnicholas
I know there was some controversy when Firefox integrated (and then acquired)
Pocket, but I don't quite understand why people were so upset. My
understanding (from having talked with folks at Mozilla) is that the suggested
stories are personalized on the client side—so any info used to customize the
stories for you isn't flowing back to Mozilla. Instead, they deliver a bunch
of stories to the client, then the client sorts out which ones will be
recommended. From a privacy perspective, this seems like a good way to do
things. And I personally find the suggested stories to be interesting
sometimes, and never creepy/inappropriate.

Regardless, it's good to know this can be turned off.

~~~
zeta0134
I had no idea it was all clientside! That makes me significantly less worried
about it. I guess I'm so used to recommendations being done serverside that
I'm jaded by default.

------
glogla
Here's my favorite metaphor to explain Chrome and Firefox.

So, imagine you have two cars to chose from.

The first car, called Chrome, is really cool - it's quick, it's nice, it's
reliable, it's comfortable. There's just one thing.

There's a guy on the back seat. He's always there. He writes down wherever
you're going. When you go shopping, he makes a copy of the receipt. When you
drive with someone, he listens to the conversation and makes notes. Which
addresses are you visiting? And how long time do you stay there? And when you
make a phone call, he listens and makes notes.

He then keeps this information forever, and sells it to various people and
companies. They study you, like a bug, to see what makes you tick. So they
know what you like and what you want, and what you're afraid of and where are
you in life and so on. So they can manipulate you better into not just buying
shit, maybe, but maybe to do more sinister stuff, like manipulate elections.

Of course, the Chrome car makers own some of the important roads, and they
make them hard to use in other cars, because they want this dude watching you.

Then there's the Firefox car. It might not be as comfortable or as quick. I
think it is, but different people have different experience. But either way,
there's no dude making notes. In fact, when there are dudes making notes by
the side of the road, the car tries to hide you and protect you!

Or you can use the Safari car, if you get the more expensive garage I guess,
whatever.

Why the fuck would anyone use the Chrome car.

EDIT: and the long term Firefox car dfivers say things like "they change how
the car looks, might as well go to SpyCar." or "there was some pressure on CEO
of FireCar making company for political stuff, might as well switch to
SpyCar." And my mind just goes blank?

And the dude on the backseat laughs and laughs as he profiles them so he can
manipulate them.

~~~
jazoom
Unfortunately the Firefox car, running on Android fuel, has awfully weird
driving (scrolling) physics that for some reason are different to every other
car. If they fixed that I might be inclined to have another look, but they've
had many years and still haven't addressed it.

~~~
aembleton
Can you explain more about that? I use Firefox on Android 8.1 and haven't
noticed any issues with scrolling.

~~~
jazoom
The scrolling physics were different to every other app I used. This was the
same over many years with many different android devices. I don't know what
else I can say about it.

------
dizzystar
As a non-front-end dev, I really don't get how the browser matters for any
end-user. I've never liked Chrome much and have always stuck with Firefox,
partly for it's philosophy, but also because it has all the things I've gotten
used to.

Firefox also has many features that make the web usable for people who aren't
born with perfect vision and hand coordination. The plus is that these
extensions make the web faster.

When I use Firefox, I feel like the browser belongs to me. Chrome feels like
an Apple version of websites, mostly dumbed down and hostile to changes.

I will say that Chrome is unmatched for front end work, but that's a horrible
reason to tell the average end user Chrome is the best browser.

------
andy-wu
I tried Firefox on OS X but it maxes my CPU frequently, doing simple tasks
like scrolling or loading small gifs on Reddit, slowing my system down
significantly. I noticed my fans spinning much more frequently than Chrome. It
appears to be linked to using scaled resolutions [0]. Until this is fixed,
Chrome is significantly faster for me, which is disappointing because I like
everything else about FF.

[0]
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?format=default&id=...](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?format=default&id=1404042)

~~~
cdubzzz
I use Nightly on OS X for web development work every day and don’t see
anything like this. Including using multiple screens with scaling (although I
almost never work on the battery).

The one annoying issue that I do get is occasionally Dev Tools will stop
working for a window and I have to close and open the Tools windows. Outside
that, no complaints on OS X.

~~~
robin_reala
Tbf I get that issue with dev tools issue with Chrome as well.

------
8xde0wcNwpslOw
It's odd to see Firefox being called a memory hog just a few years back. As
far as I can tell, Chrome has used more memory pretty much always if you have
multiple tabs open.

(Firefox may have been slower on slow hardware, but that has never been an
issue for me.)

~~~
kylek
I really wish [https://areweslimyet.com/](https://areweslimyet.com/) was still
updated (and more comprehensive, ala
[https://arewefastyet.com/](https://arewefastyet.com/)).

------
shady-lady
I kept with firefox through it all but started use Chrome for dev exclusively.
The only reason I stuck with firefox was Tree Style Tabs.

While I'm delighted at their recent improvements, I still can't help but
wonder if they are putting the ~500 million they get each year to good use.

There are still features in the browser that are quite lacking:

\- history -> history viewer is still so ~basic~. most query constructs that
could be run against the history db should be exposed through the UI. I also
think it would be great if I could see the path I took to a url history(e.g.
linked browsing)

\- sync isn't done. I feel sync should also sync settings* from about:config &
extension settings. I also would like to see the upper limit massively bumped
up from the Mozilla sync service.

These may seem like big asks but Mozilla is taking in 1/2 billion a year [1]

* for those settings where it makes sense to sync.

[1] [https://www.computerworld.com/article/3240008/web-
browsers/m...](https://www.computerworld.com/article/3240008/web-
browsers/mozillas-record-2016-revenue-funded-its-firefox-quantum-browser.html)

~~~
dblohm7
> These may seem like big asks but Mozilla is taking in 1/2 billion a year

It takes a huge amount of money to build and maintain a modern web engine and
browser.

~~~
jochung
Mozilla is like a modern American university. There is a parasitic growth
attached that is only concerned with funneling more resources to itself in the
form of bureaucrats and intersectional evangelists.

------
Juan_Largearm
I never left FF. It's been a great browser for me and I've never been tempted
to leave. Recently though since the big update that rendered half the add-ons
I came to rely on useless - I'm in limbo with no alternatives to them or half-
hearted promises that the dev will get round to porting them "sometime".

Chrome has a lot of them as well as alternatives available and for me this is
where I do consider jumping ship.

I completely understand FF wanting to change things up in the name of
performance and modernising but I do feel they didn't really appreciate how
important add-ons are to keeping people using it.

A lot of those add-ons are many years old but still had 1000s of users who
suddenly were in the same situation as me.

~~~
mmsimanga
Can you list some of the addons? I too have been using Firefox since it was
called Firebird and had a whole host of addons. Interestingly I just continued
using Firefox and now don't miss them much. Addons I used to use include
FireFTP, FireSSH and the SQLite addon. I now just use other applications. I am
guessing the Vim addon is one the ones you need?

------
hootguy
But the witchunt and purge of Brendan Eich. For love of diversity and
civility, can't use Firefox.

Try [http://brave.com](http://brave.com) instead. They're actually developing
a way to democratize ad revenue so that it is directed back straight to
creators themselves. Innovative, hopeful solution for a salient long-term
problem that everyone else seems to be throwing their hands in the air and
shrugging over.

------
EastSmith
Recently I switched to Brave on mobile, and I am planning to switching to
Brave on mine laptop.

I want privacy-first browser. Period.

I also was backing Mozilla foundation (small sums) for 5+ years in hopes they
will focus on browsers. They did not. They are cutting deals with ad serving
companies, they are spending resources on mobile os, they are spending
resources on VR browser and I don't know what else.

Good luck to them, but I want fast and reliable privacy-first browser and they
are not that right now. Brave is.

~~~
robke53
I've been using Brave as my main browser on my laptop and phone for half a
year now and i can tell that I had no major issues with it, the experience is
really smooth and easy + as you said it is really focused on privacy, would
recommend checking it out.

------
wwweston
The performance boost with quantum was enough for me to go back. Chrome still
seems snappier sometimes, but it's close enough.

One thing I _do_ miss notably is Chrome's task manager. Being able to see
which pages are spiking memory or CPU and kill or close them is super
convenient if you've got dozens of tabs open and notice machine performance is
becoming an issue. Is there anything like that out there for FF?

~~~
Mindless2112
It's no task manager, but there's about:performance (and, unrelated, there's
also about:about).

------
originalsimba
Author thinks Chrome is the best browser so whatever.

I've been using Firefox for the past 4 years and while the latest version is
certainly the best thus far, even when Chrome performed "better" I'd still not
use it for a myriad of reasons mostly revolving around the fact that
everything Google does these days is crooked.

Author mentions the built in ad-blocker. Did you know Google also banned
AdNauseum from the play store for no reason other than it is _too disruptive_
to the online advertising marketplace?

If I wasn't a professional web developer I wouldn't even have Chrome
installed. Google can DIAF.

~~~
mitul_45
Especially as a web developer, I gave Firefox a second chance and tried to use
it's FirefoxDeveloperEdition - but debugging JavaScript was so painful. It
somehow felt so slow compare to Chrome's JS debugger.

Has anyone else felt this too?

~~~
fuzzy2
Yes. However, that's a recent development. Mozilla apparently overhauled the
entire DevTools stuff. It's not even feature complete at the moment and it's
really f*cking terrible.

------
freetime2
I have tried switching to the newer version of FF but have found that I just
can't live without Chrome's built-in "Translate to English" feature. I realize
that this probably isn't that important to most users, but for me it's
something that I use almost daily. I checked briefly for FF plugins that
offered the same functionality, but quickly got the sense that nothing was
going to match the quality of Chrome's implementation, so I switched back to
Chrome as my default browser.

Has anyone found a worthy replacement for Chrome's translation feature in FF?

~~~
acomar
Quick google search found me this[0] which seems like a decent replacement.
I'm only guessing on the specific feature set you find useful, however.

[0]: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/s3google-
tran...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/s3google-translator/)

------
abalone
_> If I were committed to using only iPhones, iPads, and Macs for the rest of
my tech life, I might still be on Safari. Its performance is great on both iOS
and macOS... and it offers a choice of ad blockers among a reasonable
selection of browser extensions._

 _> But I’m writing this in Firefox today for a very simple reason: cross-
platform compatibility.... I need a browser that knows me as well on a Huawei
smartphone or Lenovo ThinkPad as it understands me an on iPhone X._

Summary: Safari is actually great. Use Firefox if you use non-Apple devices.

------
_V_
The thing with the FF was it did not support U2F tokens in Linux correctly
when I tried it few months ago. U2F requires some "U2F addon" that is
incompatible with Quantum.

This is a no-go for me as I have numerous websites secured with Yubikey and
without this the browser is just "YT/Facebook viewer"...

As soon as this changes, I might give it another chance.

\----

EDIT: Oh, FFS I just tried to look it up again and found property
"security.webauth.u2f" which seems to be false by default. After enabling it
U2F works! Geez, why would you disable that id default -_-

~~~
uiri
I think it is disabled by default because it doesn't work with the U2F sites
that aren't standards compliant (e.g. Google, Facebook). It's one thing if you
have to go in and enable the feature and find out it doesn't work everywhere,
it is something else entirely to have the feature "randomly" working on some
sites but not others.

------
jypepin
Thanks but no thanks. I really tried to switch from Chrome multiple times,
mostly because I find Chrome to take too much memory, the tracking, etc.

Every time there is some kind of update, either for speed, less data tracking,
vpn, etc. I give it a try and always end up being disappointed, even on things
that should be so obvious and simple, like scrolling. Even recent versions for
FF on a brand new macbook pro, scrolling lags.

FF always has a great story that really makes me wanna switch, but I won't
waste time for this one, sorry.

~~~
futurix
So Mozilla _actually_ made some major improvements, but you don't want to try
switching again because you tried it before on occasion of some minor updates?

~~~
jypepin
Not on _minor_ updates. I've tried to switch during the past years _everytime_
there is a similar update. Every new version is "blazingly fast" and "much
better" and promise that it's "time to switch".

------
com2kid
Firefox, on occasion, cannot play videos above 4fps until I restart it.

After running for awhile, Firefox slows my entire system down to the point
there is a 250ms-500ms delay for every key press.

Despite all this I keep trying to make FF my primary browser, but wow it is
hard.

I'm actually using Opera as my day to day, it has hotkeys that are just a
little bit better than Chrome's, backspace still does what I'm used to it
doing (going back a page) and the "jump to last tab" hotkey is super
appreciated.

~~~
KozmoNau7
Your computer may have memory issues, I've seen similar symptoms before.

~~~
com2kid
It is possible, but I can run Opera with hundreds of tabs for days on end with
no problem.

With performance degradation over time, it is hard to determine if it is
hardware slowly fading, or software bloat running its natural course.

I should run a mem tester though.

Fwiw I can load the same page up in Opera or Chrome and it will smoothly play,
while FF trips over itself in the background.

~~~
acqq
I saw the same behavior that you describe. The problem is, there are still
serious bugs in the "old" (e.g. Gecko) code, not in the "newest and greatest"
"new features" code. And just recently they fired exactly the developers
fixing such bugs:

[https://www.cnet.com/news/layoffs-mozilla-taiwan-changes-
fir...](https://www.cnet.com/news/layoffs-mozilla-taiwan-changes-firefox-work-
in-asia/)

"Taiwan programmers working on Gecko, a core part of Firefox, lost their jobs,
one person familiar with the layoffs said. That's global open-source work, in
contrast to newer, regional projects coming from Taiwan"

------
superkuh
This article starts with the headline, "Because everyone using Chrome for
everything is a bad idea" and it's right about the need for diversity in
browsers. But that doesn't mean just Firefox or Chrome.

On the contrary, for technically inclined users it's time to consider giving
up on Chrome, Firefox, Safari and all the other locked-down anti-user walled
gardens that violate software freedoms. I know this is a niche belief system
but among the types that read hackernews more care than average.

Firefox held out much longer than most but the pressure at Mozilla to make it
'safe' for grandma (only add-ons signed by Moz) and 'safe' for consuming
commercial media (DRM black box, no exceptions for research) won in the end.
It has become Chrome if only in target demographic and feature prioritization.
Just switching from Chrome to modern Firefox won't create the browser
diversity argued for in this article.

~~~
cdancette
Then what do you recommend switching to?

~~~
superkuh
I'm intentionally refraining from recommending anything specific because that
gets comments in these threads downvoted and killed. There are plenty of good
Firefox forks.

------
dsissitka
I regularly do, but there's always something that sends me back to Chrome.
Currently it's the inability to see all of the permissions an extension
requires without digging through its source:

[https://imgur.com/a/k4rk0](https://imgur.com/a/k4rk0)

Note the "Access your data on 5 other sites".

------
sydd
I'd love to, but its still very clunky in some cases. Some examples:

It decided to make its interface language not English. Now I cant set it back,
the stuff recommended from the net does not work. this also underlines all the
text I type in English.

Tab tearing is way better in Chrome.

Scrolling with a touch pad feels...odd. Its lagging a bit, somehow the physics
are off.

------
mitchty
Question on those using firefox as a daily driver on OS X. Comparisons
batterywise to safari how much less battery life do you get in general with
firefox now?

That is my #1 reason for sticking to safari for now. That and I need to find
out what extensions I need again after the switch to the new extension model.

~~~
txcwpalpha
Both Chrome and Firefox seem to use slightly more battery than Safari on my
2016 MBP. When I say slightly more, I mean that according to Activity Monitor,
they both have ~3x more "energy impact", however in practice I haven't noticed
a difference in my battery life.

The major difference with Firefox is that on some websites (namely Google
Maps, Youtube, Twitch, sometimes Gmail), Firefox spikes my CPU
usage/temperature/energy usage to _absurd_ levels (I'm talking 90+ degrees
celsius), so much so that I find Firefox unusable because I don't enjoy having
a brick of near-molten aluminum in my lap whenever I watch a Youtube video.
Chrome and Safari don't seem to have this problem.

~~~
andy-wu
Yep, I experience the same issue on a 2015 13" MBP. Appears to be an issue w/
FF and OS X scaled resolutions
([https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?format=default&id=...](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?format=default&id=1404042))

~~~
mitchty
Oof, that bug doesn't inspire confidence that this will be a worthy
experiment. Thanks for the link though, I'll test against a fresh install of
osx on a laptop.

------
anonbanker
Switched to waterfox, and never looked back. Most of us won't go Chrome,
because we'll still have a secure gecko-based browser that won't violate our
privacy.

When Servo matures into something useable daily (it's almost there) we'll
abandon firefox/gecko entirely.

------
thegreatpeter
Firefox Quantum is extremely fast and feels much faster than Chrome / Safari.

I encourage everyone to try it for a full 5 days M-F and see if you feel the
same way!

~~~
tux1968
I have used Firefox as my primary browser for as long as I can remember, so I
don't know how to compare its speed to Chrome in general. But animations are
stutter filled and janky in Firefox yet work buttery smooth in Chrome on the
same laptop.

Hope that it is something which can be resolved eventually because it would be
nice to not have to keep Chrome on hand for such occasions.

------
gnicholas
I use both Firefox and Chrome and find that the most noticeable difference is
the time to open a new tab. Chrome is always fast, but Firefox sometimes lags.

On the other hand, I find that when my fan is spinning up, it's usually
because of tabs in Chrome.

~~~
mcrider
Yes, this is my only fault with Firefox. I'll open a tab and start typing,
then (when I guess the tab is ready) the url bar resets and I've lost
everything I've typed. This is super frustrating!

------
homero
It was my primary browser until the new version killed all my critical
extensions

~~~
frabcus
The Firefox Extensions Challenge
([https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2018/03/15/firefox-
quantum-e...](https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2018/03/15/firefox-quantum-
extensions-challenge/)) with prizes for winners has just ended...

So Mozilla are at least aware this is a problem for some users.

Curious what good new extensions come from it!

------
hprotagonist
I've been using firefox since 2004, and before that, sea monkey.

Why change a good thing?

------
bluejekyll
I’ve been using Firefox as my primary browser now for approx. the last six
months. I used to flip-flop between safari and chrome (chrome needed generally
for work and Linux).

I’ve gernerally been extremely happy with it. The battery life is not as good
as Safari, but it feels faster. I do run into issues with some extensions,
specifically google Meet (I think that is being fixed?).

The biggest annoyance, and I didn’t look too deeply at how to fix this, is
custom cert mgmt. The system certs appear not to be used (I think?) and for
custom CAs, they must be associated both in the browser and on the OS (macOS
and Ubuntu). I’ve also noticed some sites cause, or did cause, very large CPU
usage, Travis-CI was one.

Anyway, I’m generally very happy, and am glad that I now have a primary
browser experience that I enjoy across all platforms. (If Apple had a safari
version on Linux, this might have been a bigger question, I think they would
do well to release one)

------
neogodless
I know I'm a lazy, spoiled brat, but can anyone describe their Android +
Desktop experience in regards to password managers?

I use Chrome + LastPass, which has icons on desktop and autofill prompts on
mobile. It's easy and integrated. The last thing I want to do is have to
switch between apps, copy and paste each time I log into a web site.

------
ishanjain28
I started using firefox back in march of last year. It has gotten way better.
There are few annoying bugs I found(like this,
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mywhU2zu87c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mywhU2zu87c)).
I have not been able to replicate them consistently, So they are pending on
bugzilla.

There are also some cases when websites like thepiratebay.org refuse to open,
At first, I thought this might be some Mitm or DNS based block set by the ISP
but then chrome opens it just fine, Don't know what happened there.. :/

There are also some lazy developers like the one at Mashape who most likely
don't test their website on Firefox because if they did, They'd know there
Login/Signup system is broken on firefox for the last 7 months!

Ignoring few third party related issues, It's pretty good and I use it on both
Android, Linux and windows.

------
jacksmith21006
Tried and gone back to Chrome. The thing is chrome is Rock solid and can not
remember the last time even a tab crashed.

------
csdreamer7
I have been using FF as my main browser for years. While most of the world
moved to Chrome-I stuck around because Chrome's bookmark sync would rearrange
every bookmark in a bookmark folder. This was years ago, but then I started
getting concerned about Google's tracking and have stuck with FF since. (I
gave Chrome a chance years later-same exact issue.)

During this time I kept running into reasons to keep FF besides the bookmarks:

\- I have noticed Chrome isn't as speedy and responsive as it used to be.

\- I found plugins that suspended unused tabs so I can have 40 open with
minimum issue pre-FF Quantum and keeps memory usage down.

\- There are other plugins that I couldn't find in Chrome's store, such as the
SQLite browser. (Now I use DB Browser from the Arch repos.)

\- Chrome's memory usage shot up over the years. It always used a lot of
memory with all those processes to sandbox the tabs, but FF kept getting more
features without so much bloating.

\- I have seen a few sites that FF does not like, but I have also seen
different sites that's didn't play well with Chrome too.

\- Google's business is in ads and tracking-how long until they ban ublock
origins?

However FF still has issues that were never solved or crept up:

\- Website PDF printing on Linux is terrible-the websites look mangled while
Chrome can take the same sites and print out a decent PDF copy.

\- Chrome is usually first to have features that could be the future of the
web. Subtitles for HTML5 video-webvtt. WebAssembly, I had to use Chrome to use
FF's own webassembly tools because I didn't use Nightly.

\- Chrome's PDF reader works better than FF's open source JS one.

\- Pocket... back when it first announced I wondered why...? an organization
committed to open source and open standards used a closed source service
backend and if I remember at the time, a proprietary connection. It was the
first time I considered going back to Chrome. I have an instapaper JS booklet
that will save any page I am on to instapaper; does the same thing without an
annoying little icon in my toolbar.

\- Mr Robot... why......? This is the Orwellian worry I had that Google would
do with Chrome. Never affected me, but did piss me off.

The Pocket and the Mr Robot were real issues to me that made me consider
finding another alternative.

~~~
sanxiyn
> Chrome's PDF reader works better than FF's open source JS one.

Note: while Chrome's PDF reader wasn't open in the beginning, it is now:
[https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/](https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/)

~~~
csdreamer7
Ah, thank you for that info.

------
crbelaus
I want to use Firefox for everything. Unfortunately my company relies a lot on
Google Hangouts and Meet for video calls. Google has implemented both in a way
that seems to be incompatible with Firefox (I know that the non corporate
version of Hangouts works with Firefox since a few months ago).

------
WaltPurvis
I've always preferred Firefox and rarely used Chrome, until a few months ago
when FF started eating CPU so badly that I now use Chrome almost exclusively.

I have no idea what causes FF to use 100% CPU, but it happens consistently,
every single time I use FF for any length of time. Browsing Twitter will do
it, YouTube will do it, eventually _something_ will do it. Maybe it has to do
with video? I don't know, and I don't have the time or (probably) the
knowledge to try to figure it out.

Until/unless Firefox fixes whatever bug is causing this, I'm forced to stick
with Chrome (which just works, hour after hour, day after day).

------
mehrdadn
I'd love to try Firefox but I can't switch until the extensions I use fully
support it. To give just one example, Checker Plus for Gmail can't keep
Firefox running in the background unlike in Chrome... which makes it far less
useful.

------
aytekin
Google is the new Microsoft. Every time I click on a link on Gmail mobile app,
it asks me, by default, to install Chrome instead using the default browser.
Even though there is a “don’t ask again” checkbox, it always asks again next
time.

------
tomcooks
It's a pity Mozilla is pushing for a dumbed down version of its core
principles, if I were them I'd:

\- drop the whole cartoonish nonsense, childish errors such as "Hmm. We’re
having trouble finding that site." should be swapped back to something more
useful (or at least give me an HTTP error to look up on top of that stupid
cartoon)

\- quit pushing for pocket and other proprietary nonsense

\- stop messing with user data to please tv series marketing teams

\- stop babysitting the user with paternalizing "you've been using the
computer too long" health-conscious snippets

Give me back the browser for nerds I need to get stuff done, make me fall back
in love with FF.

(full disclosure: posted from FF)

~~~
dblohm7
> quit pushing for pocket and other proprietary nonsense

Mozilla owns pocket and is in the process of open sourcing it. Some parts are
already on GitHub.

------
pmoriarty
Since Firefox permanently broke Pentadactyl, I've been wanting to switch to
Qutebrowser, but Qutebrowser doesn't yet have NoScript or RequestPolicy
functionality, so I'm stuck with Firefox for now.

~~~
zoffix222
Brave browser has NoScript in settings.

------
djhworld
Have been on Firefox for 5 or so months now, whenever they first released the
beta version of Quantum.

It's been fine, really can't fault it. I don't really think about it to be
quite honest, it just works.

------
shellkr
Wow! He actually recommended to use the browser password manager... Yes, I use
FF and have since it came. I did try Chrome a couple of times but it was just
a resource hog and ugly. With FF I could get it to look as I wanted and the
extensions worked better.

So I agree with his decision but not his arguments or recommendations. They
are just crap. The best way to protect your passwords is via a password
manager that is not in plane text. Like Pass or Keepass. Pass is my fav as it
is extremely portable.

------
paulbeattie
I kicked the tyres on the new Quantum'd Firefox. Oddly I found that the GPU
utilisation on my MacBook Pro is significantly higher than Chrome, even higher
than Safari. Playing a YouTube video would make the MBP's fans spin
significantly faster than normal which meant it' wasn't overly usable. The
numbers were roughly 750 Mhz Firefox, 550 Mhz Chrome and 450 Mhz with Safari.

Not sure if it's an option I've got configured, I'd love to find out what was
causing this though!

------
Tacite
Funny how every 6 months there’s an article saying that. Truth is with Mac
OSX, only Safari and Chromium are RAM efficient. Not blaming Firefox tho.

------
woolvalley
Firefox is fairly unusable performance wise with google maps and surprisingly
facebook. Those are two huge apps that I feel like are table stakes for a web
browser. Facebook is even more surprising, since it isn't an amazing webgl
program rendering a complicated map view, it isn't created by a direct
competitor and at facebook's size, making something work better for %1 of
users is a big gain.

------
captn3m0
I finally uninstalled Chrome from all my setups today. I have chromium for
occasional testing left, but it is Quantum on desktop and Fennec on phone now.

Best things I've loved since I switched:

\- Cookie AutoDelete, keeps a whitelist of domains and deletes the rest, which
works nicely with:

\- Multi-Account Containers: Create multiple cookiejars

\- Decentraleyes: Caches JS files from CDN servers for faster loads.

------
sofaofthedamned
I have done - and it's awesome on Windows / Fedora. But it's so janky and slow
on Android, this is on a Pixel 2 XL. What is so wrong with the Android
version?

For the record i've tried to move across for ad-blocking which Chrome doesn't
provide, and I do need the account sync. Firefox is just as janky without any
plugins on Android.

~~~
Vinnl
On Android it's supposed to still be getting better, although it's taking
quite a while now and I feel it's not the main focus (apparently it's hard to
fix the codebase, so IIUC they're getting there through a detour by first
focusing on the embeddability of Gecko - which will take a while). That said,
Nightly is already somewhat better, so I've been using that to relative
satisfaction for a while now. You might want to give that a try.

~~~
sofaofthedamned
I was on the beta when I wrote that comment - tried the nightly and though
better is still a jank fest. It's the reverse of the desktop where Chrome has
gone awful and FF is nice. The biggest thing is the scrolling behaviour on FF
which is truly horrendous. Is this just me? There's also a click-lag. I'm not
rooted, have minimal apps, etc.

------
Digital-Citizen
The article is riddled with what's wrong about proprietary (nonfree, user-
subjugating) software. Paragraph 2 is almost entirely made up of these
problems:

"the best web browser" \-- has no meaning without clearly identifying the
criteria by which one considers anything best, worst, or any rating in
between.

"If a friend were to ask me what the best web browser is, I’d answer “Chrome”
in a heartbeat, so don’t mistake this as a screed against Google’s browser."
\-- because any deep criticism of a nonfree browser, or a nonfree browser from
a spying organization would, by default, be a "screed"? No respect for freedom
of speech here, and that's no way to treat your friends. This line and much of
the essay comes off as a way to validate the idea that we need not consider
anyone who looks out for their own software freedom, the software freedom of
their friends and other computer users in general, or their (very much
related) privacy interests. The allowable limits of debate are set:
technocratic functionality (such as the effectiveness of an ad-blocker, vague
notions of competition and "unhealthy growth" without mention of software
freedom are considered right and proper to get into. Please restrict any
discussion to such proprietor-affirming ideas. Anything outside these
boundaries is "a screed against Google's browser".

"I still see it [Google Chrome] as the most fully-featured and trouble-free
option for exploring the web." \-- so this further reinforces the above:
privacy is not a feature and the loss of privacy (where Google decides how
much privacy to grant each user) is not to be considered a "trouble".

Nonfree browsers are unethical and problematic for the same reasons which
apply to all other nonfree software: we need and deserve to control our own
computers. This doesn't just apply to those who write software, but to all
computer users. Therefore we all need the freedom to run, inspect, share, and
modify published computer software (software freedom). Users who can't or
won't learn to program can either choose to learn or get someone they trust to
vet and improve software on their behalf. More technically-capable users can
help everyone out by vetting and improving published software for their own
sake. They can help their community by sharing their improvements under
licenses that respect our software freedom. These are deeper more
thoroughgoing reasons to reject nonfree software and run only software that
respects your software freedom.

------
outworlder
The only issue for me regarding Firefox is when I'm on a Mac laptop not
connected to power. It is still eating far too much battery compared to Chrome
– Safari is no contest. This may be related to the unhealthy number of tabs I
keep open.

Other then that, it feels great and is improving.

------
anoncoward1234
I mean...Firefox is completely rewritten from the ground up in Rust, a
language invented by Mozilla because they rock and they're absolutely killing
it. Given that it's the browser with the latest full bore rewrite, shouldn't
we expect it to be the coolest atm?

~~~
ReverseCold
It's not a full rewrite, but many core parts have been rewritten. (Possibly
most notably the UI).

------
marssaxman
I didn't actually notice that Firefox had become uncool. What is it about
Chrome that people like better? They seem basically indistinguishable to me,
so I use the one that isn't from Google.

------
kbd
Attempting another switch thanks to this post. Installed on desktop and all
mobile devices, settings imported from Chrome, everything set up with Firefox
Sync... we'll see how it goes.

------
aoner
I’d love to switch to safari, only thing holding me back are the chrome dev
tools (which I really like). Is there any alternative for this on safari?

------
acjohnson55
I never left!

There was a noticeable gap between the two browsers for several years. Not
anymore.

The plugins to put my tabs on the side panel also kept me in the fold.

------
chimen
2 things chrome still has above ff for me:

\- NO bar above the tabs \- I CAN double-click to select independent word in
url

~~~
anotherevan
For the latter, if you're willing to go into about:config, try setting
browser.urlbar.clickSelectsAll to true, and
browser.urlbar.doubleClickSelectsAll to false and see if that gives you the
desired behaviour.

------
mainliningfbs
Too bad firebug was discontinued.

~~~
randomsearch
Wasn’t firebug integrated into Firefox dev tools?

~~~
mainliningfbs
Subtle differences that make it less useful. It is very close but it is the
little things.

------
skybrian
re: "The thing that woke me up to my over-reliance on Chrome was when Google
implemented an ad blocker directly into the browser."

So what ever happened to that anyway? Has anyone noticed any ad blocking?

------
shiado
Ever since the Mr. Robot Looking Glass add-on marketing disaster I have
decided to give Mozilla a few more years to get their shit together with
Firefox. Something is seriously wrong at a company if something like that can
happen.

------
shmerl
_> If a friend were to ask me what the best web browser is, I’d answer
“Chrome” in a heartbeat_

It was always Firefox for me.

------
ddingus
Never left. :D All the recent developments are very welcome, and help keep FF
relevant and useful to me.

Thank you.

------
k__
love it...mostly

But some videoa won't be played.

Also the scrolling on Android ia rather sluggish

------
mmsimanga
I have been using Firefox since it was called Firebird. Off late one of the
reasons, adoption isn't climbing is because Firefox is not included as one of
the supported let alone allowed pieces of software in corporate companies. At
my last company, security guys went as far as to classify Firefox a risk. They
instructed Desktop Support to remotely uninstall Firefox off users machines.
Most people I support would rather use the same software at home that they use
at work. I admire what Mozilla is trying to achieve and have always promoted
it to people asking me for IT software to use.

Edit: It wasn't my decision to classify Firefox as a security risk. Just
stating that in corporate organizations I have worked using Firefox is not
encouraged at all.

~~~
dizzystar
Why did your security classify Firefox as a risk?

~~~
mmsimanga
It was just after WannaCry was big news. They had installed some Blucoat or
something along those lines. I think Firefox didn't play so nice with the
monitoring software hence it was classified a risk. I have to add that the
Security Director wasn't a security expert, highly ambitious and was never
going to entertain anything he didn't understand.

~~~
stuartd
_the Security Director wasn 't a security expert_ \- not ideal..

