
Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued - fadolf
https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
======
phyalow
A brilliant quote from a Harvard Law School Negotiation Paper on the same
topic:

 _" Instead, try to fgure out what pay category someone with your education
and experience would receive, then build a case for a salary at the high end
of that range. If an interviewer asks you to name your price, how should you
respond? In their book 3-D Negotiation (Harvard Business School Press, 2006),
Lax and James Sebenius recommend making a “non-ofer ofer,” or a statement that
could anchor the discussion in your favor without seeming extreme. Suppose
your research suggests that you would mostly likely fall into the $70,000 to
$80,000 pay range, but the next-highest category seems within reach. Rather
than saying, “I think I deserve $80,000,” consider saying, “Correct me if I’m
wrong, but I’ve heard that people like me typically earn $80,000 to $90,000.”
Notice that this statement is not a demand. Yet due to the powerful impact of
the $80,000-to-$90,000 “anchor”—a reference point that may or may not be
relevant to the discussion—it could very well steer the numbers toward your
upper goal"_

~~~
tracker1
I learned over a decade ago that it's quite alright to ask for the top end of
the salary range... And it's quite okay for a company to decline. If you have
multiple offers on the table, you're going to be fine. If you have too many
offers, and are interviewing too much, you probably aren't asking enough.

In the end, know what your market is paying... know what competing markets are
paying too. If you're at the top of Phoenix, Austin or Atlanta market, know
what SF, NYC, Seattle are paying for similar roles. Of course, you have to
deliver too.

My last job search, I wound up with 4 competing offers near the top of the
range... in the end, I just asked for an extra week of vacation, and that
became a deciding factor. There's no shame in negotiating, and you will
probably mess up, but that's how you learn.

~~~
wil421
I agree and recently used a similar tactic to GP last year. I figured out what
Atlanta was paying for the specific technology and found a few similar cities
with their salary ranges. It helps if you know a few Engineer managers who can
look up pay scales for you.

Next time I will politely push the envelope further. I had two competing
offers. Asked for the top end and it worked.

The other suprise question is the “How much are you currently making?” trap. I
politely said if it was a condition of being hired I can share my pay but I
know I’m very underpaid at the moment compared to the market. Took the job
with a 40% pay increase without having to discuss my prior salary.

~~~
chillacy
I find it uncomfortable to dodge that question too but the best way I've found
is to decline politely and ask for a "market offer". If they know you have
other offers they'll usually make it competitive.

~~~
notfromhere
Or just lie, what are they going to do, ask for a W2?

~~~
tracker1
Many places do background checks which can include a financial/credit check
and depending on the depth or association to government security, they may
find out.

------
reidjs
I never understood the 'don't give a number first' law from all these blogs.
If I know the upper bound of my potential salary, why wouldn't I throw out
that number (or a bit above) and try to stick to it? What's the negative here?
I think it'd be a lot harder if they lowballed you then you come off as
somewhat unreasonable by throwing out a much higher number.

~~~
sopooneo
You might be mistaken and throw out a number well below the lower bound
starting offer the company was planning to make.

~~~
Aeolun
That still leaves both parties feeling happy, if a bit perplexed though.

------
Ancalagon
I don't know if I agree with all of this. I'm pretty sure Google, Amazon, etc.
have VERY stringent requirements on the hiring process for (at least most) new
software engineers. At my own company, there are processes for internal and
external applicants, and I personally can vouch that I, the technical
interviewer, and the directors do actually look at applicants' resumes.

That doesn't mean I disagree with the premise of the article: candidates
should definitely view the negotiations process as a two-way street. But to
really have a level playing field and skip most of the "process", as the
author suggests, you need to have demonstrable value to the hiring manager at
whatever place you're interviewing at. Sometimes that can be hard to
demonstrate if you don't have a working relationship with someone inside the
company that's interviewing you. Hence the need for some of these processes
and resume reviews.

~~~
tracker1
There hiring processes for larger tech companies are geared towards
knowledge/skill/aptitude. Salary negotiation is often completely isolated at
that level. You have to be able to do the job, but salary negotiation can mean
up to a 25% or more difference in pay/benefits/vacation etc.

~~~
chillacy
More specifically the big companies have salary bands for each level, and you
can look up the max for each band on sites like levels.fyi

