
A $500M call option on home gyms - dshipper
https://napkinmath.substack.com/p/the-future-of-fitness-lululemon-buys
======
rosywoozlechan
People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their
fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable
value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a
spreadsheet.

Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these
ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes
to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. You have to know how to
prioritize, fitness has to be in the top of that priority list, you have to
have the skills to create and stick to a routine. You have to know how to
manage your time, how to get enough sleep, how to eat, how to move your body -
like how to hip hinge for example - what activity you enjoy, how to achieve
goals. A fitness app isn't going to do any of these things for you.

These things are ridiculous. As a powerlifter I'm trying to imagine what
intelligent doo-dad they'd try stick with us, and the most interesting things
I've seen are the bar velocity tools, but unless you're strong enough to
compete, I doubt you give a shit. I don't think barbell sports are a billion
dollar investment market though for a gadget.

~~~
superhuzza
>People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their
fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable
value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a
spreadsheet.

Doesn't align with my experiences, at all. Every single runner and cyclist I
know (including myself) uses apps to track their activities. Notebooks are
simply not as convenient as automatic GPS tracking. I understand why notebooks
are sufficient for lifting, which has long rest periods to record relatively
simple measurements. But it's a different story for lots of other sports.

Strava alone has something like 50 million users, and for good reason - it's
an incredibly effective training tool.

~~~
aryonoco
I think the difference is that the OP (and I) are into resistance activities
(barbell sports) and you are more into cardio and aerobic exercises.

As a powerlifter, I completely agree with the OP. When I first got into
resistance training, as a techie, my inclination was to try all the apps and
gadgets. 3 years later and I realised that the old timers had it right, the
best tool for resistance training is a pencil and a notebook, maybe backed up
by a spreadsheet to track long-term progress.

~~~
tylerscott
If you ever want to digitize your training log, I’d love for you to try out my
markup language: [https://www.traindown.com](https://www.traindown.com)

~~~
dmichulke
Nice. As a potential user I have two questions.

1\. As a consumer, I would like to have such an editor / viewer for my phone,
is there something alike for traindown?

2\. Functionality-wise, wouldn't a nice editor/viewer app necessarily be a
subset of spreadsheet-like app and isn't traindown then competing against such
a more general app? (Not that I know a single FOSS spreadsheet app, so I'm
speaking hypothetically)

------
napier
The voice came from an oblong metal plaque like a dulled mirror which formed
part of the surface of the right-hand wall. . . The instrument (the
telescreen, it was called) could be dimmed, but there was no way of shutting
it off completely.

The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston
made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it;
moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal
plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no
way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment.

~~~
chrisseaton
I don't really understand what point you're trying to make. The relevant part
of the mirror in the quote you're giving from 1984 is that it was compulsory.
This product is optional.

That means I think they're not really comparable.

You can make anything sound dystopian if it were compulsory. When it's a tool
people choose to use it can be empowering and help people achieve the goals
they had before they chose the product.

I'm not sure this is really an intelligent or meaningful criticism. I think
it's just snark - something said for the sake of it that sounds witty but
doesn't really stand up if you think about it.

~~~
TuringNYC
Things are often optional _until they are not._ Smartphones are optional, but
much of life -- say in Corporate America -- assumes you have one. Not by
policy, but by social expectation.

~~~
Falling3
One could argue that peer pressure and forced convenience are often more
effective approaches than compulsion by the state.

~~~
root_axis
It's not a "forced convenience" it's a veritable one, hence the ubiquity of
these devices.

~~~
Falling3
It's undeniably both. But the former was the focus of the discussion.

~~~
root_axis
No, it's not both, it's not forced by any conceivable definition of the word.
Anyone claiming that society is forcing them to own a smart-phone is just
making excuses for not wanting to give up the convenience, but nothing is
actually stopping them from doing it.

------
perardi
Pure gut reaction based off my own "fitness journey", and my family's: these
things will all make really lovely racks for drying that rug that you don't
really want to put through the dryer because it would stress the motor.

I kid…I don't kid. The mute treadmill. The silent exercise bike. All that
unused exercise equipment, sitting in basements, forlorn. Everybody buys this
stuff, assuming they are going to really get into it hard. And they won't.
Most likely. Will a few people? Sure. Will the majority? Nah.

I straight up don't kid: going to the gym is (was) somewhat akin to going to
church for me. (Still not open in Toronto yet.) You can worship or work out at
home, but there's something I just can't quantify or articulate about having a
space to go to that is NOT your home where you push yourself physically, and
are not distracted by trying to find something on Netflix, or the dog getting
in the way of kettlebell swings.

So I'm skeptical. If I were a shorting man, I'd short these companies, because
eventually these gadgets will go the way of all those Bowflex past: extremely
expensive dust magnets.

(Or perhaps I'm a freak; I have worked remotely for 5 years, and am highly
highly productive. Perhaps this is all a quirk of my psychology.)

~~~
tempestn
I've been regularly working out at home for over 10 years now. For me being
able to work out at home is considerably more effective than having to go
someplace else; that added friction of driving somewhere, getting changed,
etc., just makes it far more of a hassle compared to it being part of the
start of my day at home.

I do think it's important to have a decent space in your house to work out,
which would certainly be an impediment to some. But in the past that space has
been our living room (hardwood floors, fortunately) with the coffee table
pushed up against the wall.

Having a video workout program to follow can also be very helpful for
motivation and continuity. What I can't understand is what value this Mirror
adds. I regularly do BeachBody workout programs, which I watch on our TV. Used
to be by buying their DVD sets; now it's through their streaming app. But
that's cheaper than the mirror program, with more content, and doesn't require
buying a $1500 mirror up front. Everyone already has a TV, and I don't believe
the portrait orientation is even really a benefit.

So yeah, I'm bullish on home workouts, but bearish on Mirror.

~~~
Darkphibre
I think a big difference is the fact that it's, you know, a mirror: You can
see your movements and the instructor's at the same time, and adjust your form
to _mirror_ theirs.

For me, going to the gym (technically Bar Method) was always done with an
instructor, so that I could get their feedback on proper form and adjustments
to my routine.

~~~
jdhzzz
Exactly. Still misses the feedback portion, but in a world without access to
gyms this is a step closer to being in the room in an instructor led class.
It's not worth it to me but definitely a value-add over videos.

~~~
tempestn
Is it materially better than putting a mirror beside your TV?

------
crazygringo
Most of the comments here are dissing Mirror as a product.

And look, it's clearly not _for_ most HN'ers who would prefer to exercise in
nature, with their own weights, whatever.

But there's a huge segment of people who find exercise really difficult if
it's not a group class with a social aspect, if it's not an external schedule
they commit to, who don't have the time to commute to a gym, and who can
afford Mirror (and afford Lululemon).

For these people it's a truly amazing product. And this acquisition is
absolutely fascinating -- basically the same customer base, Mirrors get put in
every Lululemon store, and Lululemon has a screen they control in what will
ultimately be millions of homes.

As long as they don't screw this up, this could be huge -- vertically-
integrated affluent fitness for the twenty-first century.

------
bob1029
I don't understand the need for all of this obfuscation/gamification around
the act of actually performing physical exercise.

What works for me regarding on-going daily exercise is rowing while listening
to a podcast about something really deep (JRE, The Portal, etc.). It takes me
exactly 60 seconds to get my shoes on, queue up a podcast and start into the
rowing session. Anything longer than this would probably demotivate me to the
point of not exercising regularly.

I strongly suspect the reason a lot of this fancy exercise gear is never used
consistently is because there is always some UX annoyance that gets in your
way - forgot safety key somewhere, need to update your treadmill software,
have to review user manual, etc. In this attention deficit society, anything
beyond 60 seconds might as well be tomorrow. You have to eliminate barriers to
fitness, not create new ones.

A Concept 2 Model D rower can operate without electricity or internet. Its
user interface is completely optional (assuming you already have the damper
set appropriately). The mode of exercise is intuitive and easy to learn. These
facts make it one of the most valuable pieces of exercise equipment that one
can own. All you need is a can of 3-in-1 oil and you can make it last for an
eternity. The only things you have to think about are your form and how much
you feel like pushing your metabolic pathways. Everything else is optional.
This is the best way to monotonically improve ones fitness. Consistency and
ease of use. Distracting screens and wildly variable exercise regimes built
upon social networking and gamification are moving entirely in the wrong
direction.

~~~
skizm
Too loud for apartments unfortunately. I've tried a few exercise machines
(bikes, rowers, and air bikes), but Peloton is pretty much the only thing
quiet enough for an apartment. I wish I could have a rower and assault bike,
but my neighbors would kill me, and I wouldn't blame them.

~~~
Retric
Assuming you have enough sound insulation to watch TV at normal levels, just
put some foam pads under exercise equipment and it’s fine in most apartments.
At the extreme end barbells are completely silent.

~~~
bob1029
If you have a C2 with clean rails & rollers and a thick rubber mat under it,
it should be virtually inaudible to downstairs/adjacent neighbors.

Also barbells can be the ultimate silent form of exercise if you are skilled
in their usage. I can do most lifts more quietly than when I am rowing.
Dropping the barbell, or explosive lower body movements are usually the only 2
things that should ever make loud noises, and one of those should never happen
if you are doing things properly.

I also don't think it is unreasonable to make a little bit of noise during
waking hours, especially if it's only for ~30 minutes at a time and not of an
impulsive nature (i.e. dropping things on the floor). A C2 would probably be
mistaken for a washing machine when listening through a wall.

------
aczerepinski
I hadn’t heard of Mirror prior to this acquisition but I’m a big Peloton fan.

I used to do a lot of YouTube fitness videos but the Peloton classes are
better. Full Netflix quality HD, no preroll commercials, constant stream of
new workouts that I don’t have to search around for, etc.

I assume Mirror offers something similar. If $40/month sounds expensive keep
in mind many of us compare fitness expenses to the $300/month gym memberships
we were paying for prior to Covid.

~~~
amiga_500
$300 a month? Was it also a country club? That is so expensive.

~~~
aczerepinski
That’s for 3 of us and yes it’s sort of like a country club. Looks like a high
end hotel, has towel service, quality kids supervision with their own workout
classes, outdoor pool with water slides, etc.

I’m referring to LifeTime but Equinox and others target this price point. It’s
very successful in my high cost of living area, and they’ve been expanding
quickly. I hope they survive Covid though I’ll admittedly have my membership
on hold until a vaccine arrives.

~~~
amiga_500
Okay I thought that was per person. $100 is still expensive, however it's less
jarring.

Basically this is another thing to take into account when considering moving
to SV, I suspect.

~~~
winslow
Equinox does charge $300/month per person in the LA area.

------
hristov
I really hate how every company is trying to become a subscription company
nowadays. Currently I have several devices constantly nagging me to sign up
for some subscription. It is very annoying. And I certainly do not look
forward to a future where I will have to pay a monthly fee for every object in
my house.

~~~
bmitc
In my opinion, this is capitalism at work in its soul-crushing reality, which
optimizes growth and profit at all costs. Subscription-based products and
services simply make companies much, much more money, very often with a worse
user experience. I loathe today's subscription-based and constant update
world, where nearly everything you use is sliding around underneath you as it
changes and you pay it a monthly fee.

~~~
maerF0x0
> which optimizes growth and profit at all costs

It only does so with our (average) consent. If more people refused to buy
these things, and were willing to invest in non-subscription model then we'd
have those options too.

A major problem is people wanted SaaS like free upgrades and maintenance for
life at a pricepoint that hasnt risen in 30 years. I remember buying video
game cartridges for $60 in 1990 ($120 in today's dollars). No updates, no
support, no cloud servers to keep running.

Now people balk at paying $60 dollars for a MMO game, expect constant updates
and the server should "not have a subscription fee". It's been a race to the
bottom along with our collective experiences.

------
ericmcer
Being in shape long term will only happen if you find some joy in a form of
exercise. I just don't see these fad things Peloton, Mirror, etc. bringing
people anything beyond short term novelty. I would be really interested to see
how many people who bought Peloton bikes in 2014 still ride them 2-3X a week
now.

~~~
Klathmon
Don't discount the impact of gamification.

My dumb monkey brain is a sucker for seeing numbers go up and getting awards,
and comparing my improvement to friends and family.

The only thing that's ever gotten me to stick with a workout routine is
finding one that my smartwatch can completely track and show my progress using
some algorithm that distills it down to a "score". It instantly turns
something that I hated doing into something where I'm reading up on how to get
better.

~~~
bosie
Which smartwatch gives you such a score? In your experience, how well does the
score represent your actual progress?

~~~
Angostura
The Strava app is free and pretty good. You can join virtual clubs with your
friends. We have one running at work during lockdown.

------
grumple
There’s a lot of focus on price. $1500 isn’t terribly much if you’re building
a home gym. A lower-end squat rack, bench, barbell, and weights set you back
about that much. Another $500 for high end adjustable dumbbells. Some other
accessories to round it out as well. $1500 for an affluent class enthusiast?
Not too bad, and I’d expect the price to come down over time.

I’m more curious as to what this offers over watching a YouTube exercise
class.

~~~
nmfisher
> There’s a lot of focus on price. $1500 isn’t terribly much if you’re
> building a home gym. A lower-end squat rack, bench, barbell, and weights set
> you back about that much. Another $500 for high end adjustable dumbbells

True, but you'll own that equipment forever, and it holds its resale value
pretty well. As far as I can see, the Mirror hardware is useless without the
monthly $40 subscription. There's always a risk with something like this that
the company goes bankrupt, leaving you with an expensive wall-mounted TV that
plays nothing but a black screen.

I'm also guessing it's mainly seasoned gym-rats building $1500 home gyms, and
they all know what they're doing. Mirror is presumably targeting the
larger/more clueless segment, who may be more price sensitive (though I
suppose Peloton would prove otherwise).

------
shanecleveland
I was getting up at 5am and going to the gym near my home at least three times
each week for more than a year before the virus closed the gym. We have some
basic equipment at home (exercise bands, jump ropes, etc.) and plenty of
space. Exercising at home started out OK, but I have dwindled off to next to
nothing. I greatly look forward to returning to the gym when it is safe to do
so.

I can see how a more extensive piece of equipment could lead to more
consistency, but I am not willing to spend the money to find out. Companies
that will rely largely on subscription services would need to get creative to
keep me on board.

~~~
delfinom
Alot of what makes physical gyms work are just that, they are physical spaces
that (a) you at minimum to traveling there out of routine (b) you just spent
that time getting there, better work out instead of getting back on that
tempting couch or bed 2 miles back at home ;)

I've only ever seen working out at home long term for very disciplined people
and it's not large group either.

~~~
nkozyra
Well also, critically, variety of exercise.

I have a dip station and a bench and some dumbbells.

You can get maybe 30-40 exercises out of that and bodyweight exercises. It
gets old quick. I'd love to do cable stuff or step machine, etc.

~~~
com2kid
For me it is seeing the results. I'll happily do the same 6 motions for months
if I keep seeing improvement.

IMHO learning proper motion takes so long that after working out constantly
for 8 years, I don't think I'm confident that I know 40 different strength
training motions to a sufficient degree. Heck I was benching for a year before
I got /good/ at it. (This was before the plethora of YT fitness videos, it is
much easier to learn now!)

------
sickcodebruh
Lululemon are getting in on what is sure to be a crowded field. Mirror is just
one of a few products that try to take the old Home Workout Video into the
iPhone era. Some of the others that I’m aware of:

Echelon Reflect, [https://echelonfit.com/products/reflect-
small](https://echelonfit.com/products/reflect-small). This one is interesting
cause Echelon are a large, established company, though it seems like their
position might be lower cost versions of other popular fitness products. They
also have a Peloton competitor.

FORME Life, [https://formelife.com/](https://formelife.com/). Similar to
Mirror but also has a resistance component via cables and various attachments.
They’re betting on the use of AI and virtual trainers will differentiate them.
I think they’re the newest product, I’m not even sure their commercial systems
have launched.

Tonal, [https://www.tonal.com/](https://www.tonal.com/). Similar to FORME but
their focus is mostly on the resistance/strength training side of things. They
were, as far as I know, the first of these to launch and they’re still the
most interesting to me because the concept is so novel, the tech is cool, and
their software looks really nice. Think “Peloton for strength training,” as
far as I can tell.

I’m sure there are more launched and on the way.

~~~
jamesmcintyre
I've had a Tonal for about a month and it's a super impressive product in many
ways. From someone who love great product design: \- Very well-designed,
distraction-free, non-buggy, snappy UI \- For being a 1st gen product it seems
SO well put-together, everything feels very solid- especially considering what
kind of weight and force is being applied at times. \- For being early on in
the software lifecycle it already has Apple Watch heart rate integration via a
Tonal Watch app as well as allows you to turn the weight on/off via the watch

Which brings me to what I think really sets Tonal apart..

I was a very early iPhone adopter and I vividly remember showing people the
phone and what really got them hooked/interested was: pinch-to-zoom and the
"rubber-banding" inertial scrolling. Both interactions of which demonstrated
beautifully what a no-physical button, multi-touch slab of glass could do that
nothing before it came close to... and most importantly, it felt a little like
magic.

With Tonal it is a very weird feeling to "turn on" the weight. It's like you
hit a button (built into the handles/bar/screen or your watch) and boom it's
full-force to whatever weight you set with zero sound/noise.. it's very
impressive.

I thought maybe this was just something that struck me but I've had numerous
friends who are much more experienced with weight lifting try it out and they
are so surprised and impressed.

Not trying to sell people on Tonal just saying that after seeing people's
reactions to it I can totally see it being a viral type product that sells
high-price to early adopters then lowers entry-level price as economies of
scale allow it (then introduces new subscriptions, accessories, upgrades,
better models to keep high margins for customers who can afford it).

------
Medicalidiot
Let me build some credibility here: I have been working out for roughly a
decade, have gained over 70lbs, and was ranked in the advanced category (set
by ExRx standards) of dead lift, squat, and bench.

Now, my suspicion is that the target demographic for this "works out" for
social benefits, not for actually making fitness progress. I say this because
someone who takes fitness seriously would never drop $1500 on an accessory
that a pen and journal wouldn't be more than capable for. For that kind of
money a home gym is more than accessible. Even a few kettlebells for even
1/4th of that would get someone into phenomenal shape. For a significant
amount of my fitness career I did yoga at a local studio and met many of the
target demographic. Many wanted a way to stay in shape while also having a
social aspect. This abrogates the social aspect while having a sub par fitness
experience. I can only think of a demographic that doesn't understand fitness
at all, has significant money, and doesn't want the social aspects of a group
fitness class; this demographic is probably niche.

------
mr_tristan
I just remember: at the same time the fitness industry has grown in the United
States, there is _also_ an obesity epidemic. And I really don't think the
people who are really into fitness are the ones spending the majority of the
money. It really seems like it's the less intense, "average joe" folk where
the green is at.

I recall how a lot of "globo gyms" make tons of money at $10-40 per month, and
why a boutique gym struggles at $200 - the globo gym capitalizes on people
basically buying a membership, and basically not sticking with it, but... you
know, not quitting just out of guilt.

And it sure seems like Peloton established that the $39/month price point can
work.

If the Coronavirus problems extend into 2021 (very likely), I bet this
purchase is going to be real amazing, since there will be a grip of Average
Joes who will probably fork up the big purchase for Christmas to start up
classes as a New Year's resolution, and then just stick with monthly classes
"just because"

------
noelwelsh
I can see this being a good business, for the reasons described in the
article. What I don't like about the fitness industry is the concept they are
all implicitly selling that you need to go through an expensive intermediary
to access your body.

If you want community and pre-crafted workouts, you could drop $20 month on
Parkour Visions[1] for example, and help support a real community of people
instead of some mega-corp. If you just want to workout at home you could drop
the $1500 entry price for Mirror on a fantastic home setup. Or you could drop
$50 on some gymnastic rings and head to /r/bodyweightfitness Or you could join
a local club doing whatever floats your boat.

[1]: [https://parkourvisions.org/online-
classes-1](https://parkourvisions.org/online-classes-1) Their online stuff is
fairly good for what it is, and getting better. Their in person stuff is
excellent and if you're in Seattle you should check it out once the pandemic
is over.

~~~
Jtsummers
> Or you could drop $50 on some gymnastic rings and head to
> /r/bodyweightfitness

I wish more people thought this way. I've seen a lot of little used home gyms
over the years (weights, treadmills, stationary bike, etc.). All you really
need is your body and a way to move it to get in really good shape, unless
strength (weight set) is specifically your goal. I have a TRX suspension
trainer (more expensive than the rings) from 12 years ago, I got it on the
recommendation of my roommate (it works well if you don't have a reliable
place to mount rings, like when living in an apartment). I still use it, it's
8' from my current position. Between that, a yoga mat, and running shoes I'm
pretty much set. Spend some money on a personal trainer to work on your form
and routine, and you're done other than making it a routine.

~~~
danenania
Just to push back a little on one minor point: even if your goal is
specifically strength, until you're quite far along you can get most of your
muscle groups just as strong with bodyweight exercises as you can with
weights. Resistance is resistance.

By the time you get to the point where you need weights to keep progressing,
you'll be _really_ strong. Bodyweight training also improves muscular
coordination, balance, and flexibility as well, which all have major benefits.
I highly recommend it for beginners--you don't even need to buy rings or a bar
necessarily if you can find a good tree branch.

~~~
Jtsummers
I pretty much agree with this. But if strength training is a goal, getting a
weight set and using it earlier (before the temptation to do too much weight
because you’re already strong) is a good way to avoid issues with form and
injury later.

Regarding a tree branch, I agree. But good trees are hard to find here in the
western part of the plains, and a good six months out of the year I can’t
reliably go outside for exercise (and for a couple months pretty much can’t).
That’s really the main reason I want a pull-up station in the house.

------
ryanmarsh
How many people ITT dissing the product are in the target market?

We're a Peloton and Hydrow family. We have friends with the mirror thing.
These are prestige items for humble brags and typical keeping-up-with-the-
joneses for relatively vain (as opposed to health conscious) upper-middle
class to wealthy suburbanites.

If you want to understand the market, lurk on the Peloton Mom Facebook groups.
It won't take long.

Edit: anyone interested in purchasing these products should know, the Peloton
is a barely mediocre spin bike attached to an incredible digital experience.
It's a blast to use. The Hydrow is a top notch erg attached to an abysmal
digital experience, it sucks unless you use it without the screen. I haven't
used the mirror thing but my wife's friends that have it don't like it.

------
vikramkr
It's a call option on increased home gyms _that use mirror._ I don't think the
correlation between increased home gyms and increased use of mirror is as
strong as the article suggests because the driving force behind increased home
gym use today is also driving a recession that might be enough to influence
consumer behavior towards purchasing items for a home gym based on a value per
dollar analysis. I don't know if an approximately $1500 + $500/yr magic mirror
that could probably be replicated with a camera, a sensor, a small chip, and
your existing TV fits well with that kind of purchase decision making.

------
ebg13
> _Mirror sells you the equivalent of a beautiful, giant iPad that hangs on
> your wall for $1,495. Then, if you pay a $39 monthly subscription, you can
> use a mobile app to turn the Mirror into a fitness class._

Ok, so...what if you _don't_ pay a $39/month subscription fee? Does this
$1850[0] mirror do anything standalone? I think the answer is either no or yes
but not much, but I can't tell.

[0] - Buying the $1500 mirror requires you to also buy the $100 "starter pack"
and shipping is nominally another $250 without the promotion. Though for all I
know the promotion is just always happening.

------
joering2
With Covid around I was soo close to pulling the trigger... until friendly
sales person admitted once you stop paying monthly membership, the mirror goes
kaput. No call home at $40 per month, no exercise. So I'm gonna pay $4,000
upfront and then be stuck with at at $40 per month... or pay $39 for LaFitness
and have access to all classes, all equipment, play basketball, use swimming
pool, jacuzzi, etc.

These guys are just taking advantage of pandemic. Once its done people will go
out. Exercising at home is never the same as going out and socializing around
at the gym outlet.

~~~
phonon
Resale value?

------
klipt
> Mirror sells you the equivalent of a beautiful, giant iPad that hangs on
> your wall for $1,495. Then, if you pay a $39 monthly subscription, you can
> use a mobile app to turn the Mirror into a fitness class. Both on-demand and
> live classes are available for everything from yoga to boxing.

Or you can just watch fitness classes on YouTube for free?

Maybe I just don't have enough unwanted money to see the appeal of this.

~~~
tqi
Sure, and instead of Dropbox I could get an FTP account, mount it locally with
curlftpfs, and then use SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem [1]. :-D

All kidding aside, I think there is value in convenience. Whether or not that
value is >= $1500 + $40/mo is a personal question (not saying that such a
person exists in any meaningful quantity). I'm not really interested in this
product either, but I'm also sure there are a lot of things I spend money on
that others would find incomprehensible.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863)

~~~
kortilla
Is that really an apt comparison? My elderly mother pulls up youtube videos on
the smart tv every day.

------
Reedx
> Instead of looking at it that way, consider a different frame. Both
> companies target the same customer: affluent millennials who like to workout
> and stare at themselves in a mirror.

> Kidding aside...

Are they kidding though? I'd s/millennials/people, but otherwise I think
there's some truth there. Since that kind of exercise instruction and
motivation can be delivered via a TV or laptop.

~~~
munk-a
I really hope so - if they aren't they're in for a pretty harsh shock. The
"lulz millennials so self-centered" meme is there for a reason and the usage
of social media plays a major role in a lot of people's lives, but I disagree
that millennials just like to stare in the mirror all the time - it's more
about social connection. For some people this is a positive sharing experience
with friends and families, for others it's a competitive arena where
popularity is measured - I don't care to judge and think the motivation is
beside the point. The actual crux of the matter is that these interactions
that people pursue is with a self-selected cohort and I don't see mirror as
being effective and letting you do yoga with your friends.

On the contrary it's closer to e-health, you're connecting to a professional
for some advice, but unlike e-health I imagine either that professional will
be concurrently servicing lots of clients or that compensation for that
professional will be dirt poor since 39$/mo isn't nearly enough for a personal
trainer - the first one near me that I could find on the web runs about 150/hr
so some serious corners will be getting cut unless Mirror is only usable for
like... fifteen minutes a month? Or well, given that price difference I
wouldn't be surprised if this was essentially an extremely expensive version
of buying a projector and throwing Yoga w/ Adriene up on a wall.

------
mdlm
The article misses the most obvious reason: insurance/diversification.

If people no longer go to gyms, they don't need to buy lulu.

~~~
mikeg8
A lot of people buy Lululemon for the style/comfort/status... not to actually
sweat in.

------
piccogabriele
Good to see that there is interest in this topic. We recently launched
www.virtualgym.run (Web-RTC peer to peer training platform), but we are
struggling to reach visibility. Does someone have any suggestion to achieve an
impressive growth like this startup?

------
xnx
As exercise equipment: Meh. As large form-factor indoor advertising:
Interesting.

Some article pointed out that the mirror has some potential to be a useful
form factor for information display alongside phone, laptop, tablet, watch,
book reader, and Alexa/Google Home display.

~~~
processing
Screen flickers on: 10 second Ad of Conor McGregor taking up the full mirror
inviting you to take part in his 30 day fitness program - just say "Doubt me
now" to begin. Your account is instantly charged $9.99 by Mirror.

Could of been a great purchase by Google - matching your Youtube video viewing
with celeb/fitness instructors.

------
xiaosun
This is called an acquisition, not a call option.

~~~
User23
Yeah this is obnoxious. I was hoping to be told about a deep out of the money
contract I missed out on buying, not some yoga pants company's PR firm's
drivel. This is one of the rare examples of a HN headline that is worse than
the average Zerohedge one.

------
layoutIfNeeded
> a beautiful, giant iPad that hangs on your wall

So... a Tv?

~~~
dwighttk
yeah, but vertical! And a built-in camera?

~~~
layoutIfNeeded
Most smart TVs have built-in cameras nowadays (unfortunately).

------
ConcernedCoder
I'm imagining a mirror that can display you in different outfits? sound like a
winner to me... a new way to shop.

------
cosmodisk
"Mirror sells you the equivalent of a beautiful, giant iPad that hangs on your
wall for $1,495. Then, if you pay a $39 monthly subscription, you can use a
mobile app to turn the Mirror into a fitness class". Hold on a second. i do
have this 50" thing in my living room. It shows all sorts of videos, even
exercises some people do.. Emm.Oh,yes, it's call TV! This is like Paleton's
cousin.

------
eaandkw
I think Winston Smith (1984) would disagree with having a "fitness" mirror in
the home.

------
throwaway713
Gamification of exercise does not work currently and probably never will. No
matter how you dress it up, it’s still exercise and still requires physical
exertion, and there seems to be people who can do it and those who can’t.

~~~
Sodman
I know multiple people who've more than 10x'd their number of spin classes per
month after switching from a "dumb" spin bike to a Peloton who would disagree
with you. Notifications like "You're 1 ride away from hitting a 5 day streak!"
or "Your friend X is working out right now" really drive people to work out
more frequently than they would otherwise. Seeing their effort levels compared
to both strangers and friends on a real-time leaderboard makes people put in
more effort than they would otherwise. Between the two, gamification can have
quite a large impact on how much exercise someones does.

------
el_don_almighty
DOA until someone opens up this platform for PORN.

------
rboyd
first thought: how did I not think of this? second thought: people have way
too much money. check out the $20 mini bottle of glass cleaner you can buy on
the accessories page
[https://www.mirror.co/accessories](https://www.mirror.co/accessories)

------
PaulHoule
Is this Juicero 2.0?

