
The little-known secret of how to actually choose a web designer - joshuacc
http://informationhighwayman.com/rants/choose-web-designer-easy-steps/
======
crazygringo
This is ridiculous. In my experience, graphic designers are not primarily, nor
should be, concerned with revenue, ROI, sales, etc. Much less copywriting.

Instead, the client is. Once the client has established his or her goals, and
worked with marketing/sales/engineering/architects to determine what pages
will be built with what functionality, _then_ you hire a graphic designer to
produce a "look" that achieves those objectives in the visual realm.

And depending on what kind of objectives you have, you may want a "clean"
style or not -- maybe a "grunge" style instead, depending on your market. You
may want "modern", or you may want "retro".

And when the author says "...are not actually designers at all. They are
artists." Yes, that's the point. And artists are extremely important in
seamlessly merging your brand together with your website's functionality.

But if the author is talking about "web designers" in general, then there's
barely anything to talk about at all, because it's become such a vague term
that nowadays it's practically useless. There are graphic designers, interface
designers, information architects, and so on...

~~~
paulnelligan
Could be useful advice though for any designer who wants to enter the realm of
the bullshit artist, and make a small killing doing so ...

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JoelSutherland
This isn't an article about how to choose a web designer, it's a list of
designer stereotypes that business people believe in.

To "actually choose a web designer" you need to have a clear idea of what your
objectives are for the project and then interview with an open mind. Find
somebody intelligent with a strong portfolio. No silly checklist is going to
outperform you as a thoughtful decision maker. Litmus tests are used because
they are easy, not accurate.

~~~
kitsune_
From his facebook: <https://whichtestwon.com/archives/5274>

_rolling eyes_

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ForrestN
This is a very odd perspective. Why is it a web design portfolio's job to
convince you to care about good copywriting?

If your primary objective in hiring a website designer is something like SEO,
improving conversions, or otherwise directly generating more revenue,
obviously language like "ROI" and "Generate more business" can be a sign that
a firm is focused on those aspects of design for the web. If I was looking for
a firm that specialized in that area, I would prefer case studies that
demonstrate concrete improvements to just an argument or mentioning certain
buzzwords.

But lots of web design firms help their clients meet objectives besides
immediately increasing business. For some companies, branding doesn't matter
at all. But, for some companies, like say a fashion label, branding is
extremely important. If they hired a designer who was focused on "ROI" and so
forth, they would likely not only get a terrible product that doesn't match
their needs, but see very little in the way of new business.

The "secret" of hiring a web designer is just being clear about what you want
your new design to do, what your goals are for the design. Whatever those
goals are, you should select a few designers whose work looks like it speaks
to your goals, and tell them directly about what would constitute a successful
design. Ask for examples of times they've successfully reached similar goals
for a client in the past.

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davecap1
The funny thing about this article is that its very existence points out the
fact that many web designers are very much aware of the concepts of "business
objectives", "return on investment (ROI)", "lead generation", "increase
sales". Designers' websites are clearly crafted with the sole purpose of
procuring clients, and they presumably work given that many such designers are
still in business!

I think that in many cases (and I'm not a behavioural psychologist or
anything), consumers make irrational decisions when shopping... usually based
on an emotional response. Personally, I would much rather hire a designer who
has experience making "beautiful", "modern", "clean", and "usable" websites
than one who claims they will somehow magically pump out a website that
immediately provides a high ROI.

Web design is an iterative process that starts from a nice, clean base and
improves through A/B testing and similar experiments.

------
jdietrich
My mantra is always WWOD - What Would Ogilvy Do?

My website exists to sell product. My job is to improve traffic and
conversion. Anyone who isn't going to directly contribute to that effort is at
best deadweight, at worst pulling in the wrong direction.

I'll give a potential hire the benefit of the doubt based on their website,
but if we exchange more than two e-mails and he isn't talking about traffic
and conversion, he isn't getting hired.

I'd require very little persuading to hire OP, based purely on him referencing
Drayton Bird. The converse is also true - I wouldn't consider ever hiring
someone who can't quote chapter and verse on Commonsense Direct Marketing.

~~~
mkr-hn
"The converse is also true - I wouldn't consider ever hiring someone who can't
quote chapter and verse on Commonsense Direct Marketing."

Do you believe someone can't be a competent marketer without having read that
specific book?

~~~
jdietrich
Yes. If you're in the business of selling and haven't read it, you're either
lazy, stubborn or a fool. It remains the definitive text on direct marketing.
I know of no-one in the direct mail industry who hasn't read Bird's
Commonsense and I know no-one who considers it anything short of a
masterpiece. Ogilvy said "Drayton Bird knows more about direct marketing than
anyone else in the world.". Commonsense is the essential distillation of
everything Bird knows about DM. If you haven't read it, either you have no
interest in understanding the business of DM or you're terrible at choosing
books. Either way, I don't want you anywhere near my business.

~~~
mkr-hn
That's very narrow-minded. I would just recommend the book and tell them to
come back after reading it. Someone who's genuinely incompetent wouldn't get
much out of it alone. Someone who is competent will be even better than they
already were.

That's if the book really is any good. I'm going to go check it out after your
roundabout recommendation.

------
michaelpinto
"Branding" isn't a puff word if you're serious about marketing -- and not only
is a "return on an investment" but an actual part of your product. Without a
brand your can of sugar water isn't Coca Cola. And in terms of tech if you
look at the work of Paul Rand he put IBM on the map. And branding isn't just
for the big guys, if you're a small startup picking the right name for your
web domain (and investing in it) can be make or break when taking those first
steps.

------
peteforde
While the author suggests some points about creating value that at face are
silly to disagree with, I would warn away readers and suggest that as a whole,
this post contains some very bad advice. It's a "the enemy of your enemy is
not necessarily your friend" scenario; he's not wrong, but he's also totally
full of shit.

Look at a site like Vimeo and tell me that beauty and passion aren't critical
aspects of this design. Then head on over to AirBnB or Kickstarter or Etsy and
tell me that they didn't put a huge amount of design thinking into making a
clean, modern site that makes the visitor feel like they are making a
difference by participating in a consumer revolution.

Good design extends far beyond logos and colour swatches. To have good design
means that you've thought through every interaction path so that you can
manipulate how your visitor _feels_ when they use your site or product. You
need to connect with their limbic brains first, and only then are you in the
best position to really understand how to maximize their ROI.

TL:DR; this is bad advice. Don't hire a designer that only cares about
“business objectives”, “return on investment (ROI)”, “your revenue goals”,
“lead generation”, “increase sales" because chances are they are also busy
with real estate and network marketing. The author knows who not to hire, not
who to hire.

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AJ007
Is it just me or did the design on that page make the article startlingly
painful to read?

~~~
utunga
For an article about 'how to choose a web designer', I'd say that's a pretty
important thing to get right. Business wise or otherwise. And you are right.
It was a massive fail in that department.

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trafnar
Following this advice will probably cause you to rule out a lot of good
designers.

~~~
talmand
As a designer myself, I agree.

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feverishaaron
I'll add that during your first conversation the designer should dive right
into understanding your business, and understanding your objectives, before
any discussion of solutions.

If the conversation flows in the opposite direction, you have a problem.

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redguava
I would much rather choose a designer with a history of work I like the style
of than someone that can spout buzzwords like ROI.

It's not like you hand everything over to a designer and say "achieve my
business goals", it's a collaborative process where you make sure your
business goals are met.

~~~
rednum
The problem here is I think that the style 'you like' may not be what you
actually need. If it was that easy, there would be no need to articles telling
you how to find a good designers. I agree that buzzword are not the best
metric ever, it's easy to fake, but as an engineer I wouldn't trust my own
taste either. By the way, I didn't like the design of site in the OP, but I
guess the author is a good designer.

~~~
redguava
I'm an engineer too, but I still trust my taste. I can't actually make what I
like, but I know when I see it.

I am probably using the term "like" a little broadly, as I don't just mean
visually appealing, but more so a design that meets my requirements and fits
my purpose. Ultimately, I need to judge that, not the designer.

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mikeg8
"You can be sure anyone who advertises his services in this way understands
nothing of importance about marketing or business."

I think this statement is almost backwards. The reason "designers" use
buzzwords is because it gets small business owners on board with them.
Advertising your design services in a cookie cutter, predictable way is OK if
you have the portfolio, skills, and actual marketing knowledge to provide
business value. I don't care how great your copy or copywriter is, the text
and UI has to be seamlessly integrated into the experience so there is NO
distraction and the message can be properly conveyed. This takes an artist...

Bottom line- this guys is missing it

------
nlh
I genuinely thought this article was a joke -- I thought he was going to say
something about you should add up the ticks in the 'good' and 'bad' columns
and if the total number was greater than zero you should find a different
designer :)

I think this guy is just wrong. A designer's job is to design. It's not
his/her job to use buzzwords like "business objective" or "ROI" - it's his job
to create a functional, relevant and aesthetically-pleasing website. And,
frankly, I think words like 'clean' and 'modern' are GOOD.

As a web consumer, I know I think higher of companies with clean, functional,
modern websites. It means they have a clue.

------
JohnLBevan
When choosing to work with anyone you should look for skills which complement
your own / your current teams. Generally when looking to recruit a designer,
it would be their design skills your after; not their legal advice or ability
to write in marketing jargon. Look for people whose designs you like,
preferably who have produced something similar to the look you're after
before. Find someone you can build a relationship with, where they can talk
you through their subject in your language. If you're a small business with no
technical skills, your "web designer" should be someone who describes the
whole process of getting a site on-line up front, and who offers ways for you
to maintain that site yourself, without having to pay them each time you want
a few lines of text added. If you're a larger business, or a developer who
lacks graphics skills, you'll probably be focussed on just the design side,
and will want someone who uses technologies compatible with what's in your
toolkit, people who have experience working alongside programmers, and perhaps
those who understand how to optimise their designs for performance. Everyone's
requirements are different, so the designer they're after will also be
different. Look at what these designers have done before, and look at their
customers' feedback, and pay particular attention to those customers who seem
to be the most similar to yourself.

------
mannicken
Well, duh. Design is not art. Art is about beauty primarily. Design is about
leading user where he wants to, be it content, product, or a graphic. Design
is communication.

What this means to business-people/developers: you can have all the
functionality and low prices in the world, but if no one can get what they
want in time, it's all useless. There are no sales if the user can't get to
the "Sell" button. There are no ad views if the content is hidden somewhere in
.html files or is unreadable.

~~~
bluekeybox
> Art is about beauty primarily.

Actually art is not really about beauty. Serious art is a lot like business,
but with one important difference: art is about attracting a very select,
discerning audience (while ignoring or even actively _repelling_ the non-
discerning audience). The way art works is that this very select, discerning
audience will be willing to pay money to establish that very fact. In other
words, art is about extracting money in exchange for exclusivity. Most
businesses, of course, work in an entirely different mode: they extract money
in exchange for service.

~~~
rquantz
Speaking as a musician, I can assure you that that is not what art is about.
That is what art dealership is about. Artists and art dealers are not the same
people.

On the other hand, it is also not necessarily about beauty. I've played plenty
of ugly music that is still great.

~~~
bluekeybox
> Speaking as a musician, I can assure you that that is not what art is about.

Speaking as an artist, I can assure you that is exactly what art is about.
Additionally: all people are the same, and have always been.

Even when you do not actively try to play for an audience which has
exclusivist tendencies, your art (music) will invariably end up used in a very
specific way. There are invisible relations of power behind most of the things
that people do, art and music being no exception. In school, we were taught
that it is not nice to be exclusivist, however that is not how the world
works. Similarly, in school we were taught that desiring power is a bad thing,
while it isn't in fact (as long as this desire is productive).

Take a simple example: a guy meets a girl (or the other way around) and asks
her what music she listens to. Music taste is a way in which connections are
established between individuals (connections between people have a lot to do
with power so stay with me...). Now this connection will mean relatively
little if the music that both the girl and the guy like can be commonly heard
on the radio. The connection will mean _a lot_ if the music they both like is
relatively obscure. And it's not just music. Anything, really, that is rare
_and_ is shared between two individuals becomes _special_ \-- i.e. becomes a
nearly fetishistic object signifying the commonality between the two
individuals. It's very beautiful actually. And it's all based on exclusivity.
Side-note: the "commonality" I am talking about probably has a lot to do with
Shannon's entropy and information transferred between the two individuals.

~~~
rquantz
> Speaking as an artist, I can assure you that is exactly what art is about.
> Additionally: all people are the same, and have always been.

Fair enough. I suppose I can only speak for myself, and to a certain extent I
can speak for other artists I know and have talked to about these sorts of
things. So yes, please assume that everything here is a gross generalization.
Also, please accept my apologies is this whole digression is off-topic. It is
something of particular interest to me. If I should shut up, just let me know.

What you're talking about is a popular line of research for musicologists. The
way art is used to reinforce social bonds is an important part of why people
make art. That doesn't mean that, for artists, that is what art is "about."
Any object once it's released into the ether will be used or misused as the
people who encounter it see fit. I am responding to the notion that artists
are craven elitists whose primary goal is to have their art acquired by rich
people in order for them to show how much better they are than the plebes.
Rich people do and have done that, but in my experience, if that layer enters
into the creation of the art itself, it is generally the artist thinking, "how
can I trick some dumb tasteless (bourgeois) rich person into giving me money
so I can keep making art." Artists make art because they have to. If it were
about getting a paycheck they would have gone into investment banking.

There are some people running around painting or playing a musical instrument
who are not like this, who do it because they majored in it in school and some
inertia keeps them doing it even though they have no inner drive and no
commitment to producing authentic work. I've met them, and I've seen them
play. Frequently they are stunning technicians, but I tend to take the 19th
century Aestheticist view and say that what they produce is not usually art.
Given a double-blind test, could I distinguish between those who have
standards and those who don't? I don't know. Again, I like the old-fashioned
view that what matters is the-thing-itself.

I am by no means suggesting that artists do not or should not take their
audience into account. Art is not effective if it conveys nothing to anyone
but the artist. Also, clearly, artists produce different work depending on
whom it is for. Mozart, for instance, had a different style for his "public"
works, such as symphonies and concertos, than in his music that is intended
for connoisseurs, such as string quartets. I don't think this is the same as
what you're talking about, though. Taking into account comprehension levels of
your audience is part of the craft, and does not preclude producing an
authentic product. It does not mean that aesthetic goals are secondary to
financial ones.

------
adamjohn
This article makes some interesting points, however I believe the author fails
to differentiate the devices of which a web designer aims to market to
potential clients versus what they are entirely capable of.

As a professional entrepreneur running my own company my career began with
freelancing and instructing in web/print design. I won't claim to speak on my
years of experience at that time of specific "business" knowledge as the
author mentions (ROI, revenue goals, etc), nonetheless I never felt it
appropriate to market my business skills on my design resumes and portfolios.
While I agree wholeheartedly with the importance of understanding business
models and revenue goals, I also feel it's not in the web designer's best
interest to include these skills on a design portfolio.

All in all - it should be apparent that just because a web designer includes
"buzzwords" such as "clean" and "modern" it certainly doesn't mean they don't
grasp concepts such as ROI or revenue goals.

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PeterMcCanney
Tennant's point about the use of these words, "branding”, “beautiful”,
“passion”, “making a difference”, “modern”, “clean”, is totally valid. These
are qualities that web designers either want to achieve on a professional
level or have seen mentioned most design blogs and rockstar designer
portfolios.

These are qualities that any web designer worth their salt will have
demonstrated in their portfolio. They will show, not tell, how good they are.

As for the rest of the article, I think it demonstrates the author's skill
more as an online marketer rather than a graphic designer. He did get to the
front page of HN after all.

------
talmand
Interesting, as a web designer I did not understand I was supposed to be a web
marketer as well. So, if I study up on the books mentioned in the comments
does that mean I can now command two paychecks? If I spread out into copy
writing as well does that now mean three paychecks?

I don't know about his world but in mine the marketer worries over conversions
and ROI and WORKS WITH the web designer to achieve those goals. Somewhere in
there a copywriter is involved. In my office we refer to this as a "web team".
Is this a new concept? Can I patent it?

------
hussong
I don't think it's possible to come up with universally valid selection
criteria.

Some projects are purely design-driven, the site just needs to look great
(say, for a fuzzy image campaign), and that's simply the job that the client
needs to get done.

Other projects (and I like to believe the majority of launches) are clearly
business driven and the site needs to accomplish specific goals to meet
strategic objectives. In that case, OPs approach makes a lot of sense.

------
rickmb
Unless you are acquiring generic services or commodities, hiring anyone starts
with a conversation, not with looking at the website. The only useful
information you can get from a designers (or any kind of bespoke service)
website is a) is their style what you are looking for (if you even have a
preference), b) do they have relevant experience, and c) how can I get in
touch.

Everything else is human interaction, not browsing through a catalog.

------
gyardley
The skills he's talking about you'll want to have in-house as you optimize for
conversion - probably working closely with whoever's doing traffic
acquisition.

When just starting out, should you be seeking funding, I'd recommend sticking
with someone focused on aesthetics - the guy he tells you not to hire. Pretty
goes a long way with angel investors and venture capitalists.

------
jscheel
One look at how the author describes himself on twitter
(<http://twitter.com/#!/bnonn>) clears this right up: "Direct response sharp-
shooter D Bnonn Tennant—the dashing & debonair web copywriting ace &
attention-thief for hire"

------
Mazer23
I wonder how the awesome sword and spade symbol on this website help him sell
whatever he's selling.

------
nl
Selective quotes:

information highway _man_

Award 12 million points if _he_ argues the case

Firstly, that _he_ knows so little about design that _he_ thinks recognizing
the importance of branding makes _him_ sound knowledgeable.

 _he_ knows so little about marketing that _he_ believes brand

 _He_ does not understand how to present a unique value proposition—that most
basic element of selling. And _he_ certainly does not understand what matters
to your business. _He_ is just an amateur

\----

Well I'm no information highway man, but first semester of first year
university we did a subject that taught us using gender-specific language when
it isn't required never gains you a sale, but may well lose you some.

The author sure lost me with his apparent assumption that only men run web
design businesses.

~~~
nl
I get downvotes for _that_?!

One might note that I took the least extreme position possible: that gender
neutral language is harmless; but gender specific language may offend so it
makes sens to use the neutral form.

One may also note that there are much more extreme positions available: that
the author's language choices displays an underlying current of sexism that is
found though out the IT, business and web communities. I didn't say that
because I don't think it is true - but perhaps I should have because I'd have
started a discussion instead of just getting a downvote.

One might also note that someone could disagree with me and _reply_ , instead
of a lazy downvote.

------
hammock
Kudos for the point about working with a copywriter. I see tons of new "Show
HN"-style websites and apps come across this website, and without fail 80% of
them are in much greater need of a better writer than some fancy, unique
design.

~~~
cynusx
any books or other resources you can recommend to read up on copywriting?

~~~
hammock
Start with Strunk and White, Elements of Style. Once you get that move on to
literary devices. Try Mary Oliver, A Poetry Handbook, or Robert McKee, Story.

There are all kinds of business-y books out there about copywriting for email
marketing etc, but you will never learn the fundamentals from them.

------
joshfraser
Those things he listed are MY job. I just need a designer to make things
pretty.

------
MJR
While I disagree with why these are on your negative list - “branding”,
“beautiful”, “passion”, “making a difference”, “modern”, “clean”. "Making a
difference" can read pretty darn close to "Return on investment", etc.

I actually stopped reading when you used the phrase "babbling like a retard".
As a Christian like you profess to be, I would probably look a little more
closely at the words you choose.

~~~
plink
I wholeheartedly agree with this comment. Using "babbling like a retard" is
akin to employing the n-word in terms of being considerate to a world-wide
audience.

~~~
Dramatize
When did the word retard start carrying the same weight as nigger? Is it an
American thing?

~~~
TillE
If you're not American, you'll probably understand when I say it carries the
same weight as "spaz".

~~~
Dramatize
Spaz is a nothing word in Australia. I found this article which begins to
explain the change:
[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1124793...](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112479383)

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mieses
Complete nonsense. Shopkeeper mentality.

------
mise
At what stage should a copywriter by brought it? Before or after the designer
has done their work?

------
utunga
it's links like this that make me wish there was a down vote on hn

------
jsavimbi
> babbling like a retard

A lot can be said of that.

------
odddog
Here's a cool article on how to actually choose a web host.
<http://www.ehow.com/how_4449124_choose-website-host.html>

Great website copy, great website designers... they mean jack if your website
doesn't handle the traffic it receives. <http://cl.ly/3t2D1E2c3H3A2d1I433W>

