
NYC proposes rule to collect GPS data on car service passengers - necessity
https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2017/01/04/nyc-to-collect-gps-data-on-car-service-passengers-good-intentions-gone-awry-or-something-else/
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ebbv
This is a nice AstroTurf campaign by Uber. Regular taxis in NYC already give
this information. It is about tracking the taxis, not the customers.

It's kind of crazy that Uber is trying to leverage customer privacy concerns
given they recently started tracking customer location data even after they
are dropped off.

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JoshTriplett
> Regular taxis in NYC already give this information.

All the more reason for a better service to differentiate themselves by not
doing so.

> It is about tracking the taxis, not the customers.

And wiretapping eavesdrops on telephones, not people?

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colinbartlett
Before everyone cries foul, let's not forget that what the government is
proposing to collect is just a small subset of the data that private companies
like Uber and Lyft already have on you. There it's accessible by untold number
of people for all kinds of unregulated purposes.

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gravypod
Uber isn't backed by an army, secret courts, and they can't decide to throw me
in jail.

Edit: Fix my autocorrect word choice.

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gumby
> Uber isn't backed by an army, secret courts, and they can't decide to
> through me in jail.

You have it backwards (and BTW NYC doesn't have and army nor secret courts).

Yes, the us gov sadly has secret courts and of course an army et al. But it's
also subject to some constraints, such as the very one that gives rise to this
blog post: government agencies typically have to announce their plans and have
them open for discussion.

Does the process always work? Of course not! But it's a lot more transparent
than how corporations can be. People _are_ outraged by secret spying, secret
torture etc. And why do governments do that stuff in secret? Because they know
it will cause outrage. Some governments (e.g. DDR & Norks to name a few), do
it overtly because the very knowledge of the spying is part of its value.

Whereas there are few tools to control the same actions by corporate entities.

I do expect an erosion of these secret programs over the next 20 years.
However they may be overshadowed by corporate databases.

Our governments, being made of people, are hardly right all the time. But
neither are our corporations (and they are indeed _our_ corporations,
regardless of capital structure because they are permitted to act in the
public sphere) as they are also machines operated by people. A foolish knee-
jerk reaction in favor of one over the other is intellectually stupid.

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jessriedel
> BTW NYC doesn't have and army nor secret courts

Once data is in the hands of NYC, it can be freely shared with the federal
government.

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madgar
What's hilarious about this statement to me is that there is a real,
transparent political debate happening in NYC _right now_ because the city
government wants to prevent data from being shared with the incoming federal
government (look up "IDNYC"). Citizens are participating in that actual debate
because they can.

I trust my city government __far more __than I trust Uber to protect my data.

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rokosbasilisk
Why do you trust your city government ? I cant see any one fighting the feds
and winning here. I wouldnt trust either.

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unethical_ban
This would be terribly evil and awful, and I hope it doesn't go through.

Eventually, trying to keep your personal whereabouts out of a government
database will itself be so suspicious you'll probably be tailed.

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rbcgerard
Not condoning this, but they have almost of this data from yellow cab taxi
riders, with the exception of the ones that paid in cash.

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bogomipz
From the proposal PDF linked in the article:

"Although almost all TLC-licensed drivers do not drive an excessive number of
hours, TLC recognized that a small number does and that some drivers may be
tempted to work dangerously long hours. Therefore, in support of the City’s
Vision Zero initiative to reduce traffic fatalities,TLC adopted rules in July
2016 to address the risks of fatigued driving"

If "almost all TLC licensed drivers do not drive an an excessive number of
hours", then this is a very minor problem which should be able to be corrected
by enforcement at the FHV(for hire vehicle) level and not by a proposal that
not only has potential privacy implications but also has city budgetary
implications.

If New York City and the TLC's legitimate focus were on safety and quality of
life(Vision Zero)issues then they could start by fixing the problem of
aggressive driving by taxis - including blocking the cross-walk boxes, and
intersections, blatantly running lights after they are clearly turned red as
well as other general uncivil and aggressive behavior such as excessive and
unnecessary horn blowing.

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memset
Unrelated: the time frame to comment on this rule for residents has expired.
Were it that I was aware of this earlier! How can I not miss these things in
the future?

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totalZero
Looks like I'm going to take the subway from now on.

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jdavis703
Someone earlier made a now dead, but sensationalistic comment about how in
some cities the transit police can search you before entering the subway, and
if you refuse you can't enter (though usually you can enter from an entrance
or station without the checkpoint).

I've even seen TSA stationed inside of busy subway stations, thankfully they
were only gruffly and inefficiently redirecting passengers, but weren't doing
body scans or pat downs.

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danso
I believe this is the way that it is in New York, at least when I lived there,
unless the city relinquished its powers on this. Long reddit thread here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1dm5fu/what_are_my_rig...](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1dm5fu/what_are_my_rights_regarding_random_subway_bag/)

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givinguflac
Between the militarization of NYPD and the increasingly bold mass surveillance
they're implementing, I think I may just never go to NYC again.

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jgalt212
In general, I tend to a agree with you. i.e. Big Brother is bad, but if Big
Brother is being Big Brother to protect you against the abuses of Uber then
the case is not so clear against increased govt data collection.

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givinguflac
The article makes a clear distinction between reasonable collection for those
purposes, and this plan which is clearly a catch all with plenty of loopholes
for using it however they'd like. I'm all for efficiency and against abuses,
but there no way they need all this data for that purpose.

