

I refuse to tolerate assholes - xando
http://jacobian.org/writing/assholes/
After reading this thread https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674 (especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.
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AndrewDucker
I have to say I agree.

Sure, you might say, there are some geniuses in Open Source who are obnoxious,
and we need them. But my question is this - how many geniuses who are quiet
and confrontation averse have left Open Source, never to return, because of
the way they were treated?

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tomjen3
The problem is that not everybody agrees on who is the asshole. Somebody who
wishes to force professionalism (ie a suit whether he wears it or nor not) on
me is a bigger asshole than one who writes good code but can start a good
flame war.

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xando
After reading this thread
[https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56599...](https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5659970)
(especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's
coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.

~~~
j_col
Wow, Linus does not come across well in that thread at all.

~~~
lucian1900
It has been repeated several times: Linus doesn't come across well because the
troll deleted some much nastier comments.

~~~
xando
I didn't know about this part of the conversation. So in that case, where I
can find original one? Any mirrors where created, that we know about?

~~~
jack-r-abbit
It was discussed on HN earlier this week.[1] One thing you will note is that
Linus addressed his comment to a Joseph, but none of the commenters before
that are named Joseph. Joseph removed his comment. No one had a mirror but
people recall the gist of the deleted comment.[2]

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3973816> [2]
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974008>

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antihero
One could argue that while assholes may write good code, for all we know
they're putting off people that would write as good or even better code and
not be assholes.

This especially applies to women - sure there are misogynistic jerks that are
great coders, but who's to say the women they are putting off wouldn't be
better in the long run?

I hear the argument that if someone is dedicated enough they'll overlook the
abuse they get and do what they do anyway, but the entire premise of the
overarching debate is that social skills don't really correlate with technical
skills, which blows that argument out of the water - people might not have the
social skills to deal with shitbags, but that doesn't mean they aren't
fantastic amazing programmers.

~~~
tomjen3
Why is it that people care so much about how many females there is this
industry? Isn't it more important how good code I write, than the fact that I
have a cock between my legs and not a cunt?

Anyway social skills are pretty much just a filter between what you want to
say (how many times to you think "this guy is an asshole" and don't say it)
and what you actually say and part of this is the ability to pick up (and care
about) what others feel and guess (and if really good) force their reactions
and desires to match what you want them to do (see the end of the previous
paragraph for an example).

None of that has anything to do with code. The compiler has no feelings and
doesn't care about yours.

So if you want somebody in charge of the project, make sure they can deal with
people (including assholes). If you want code written, accept that the people
who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings.

~~~
gazrogers
> If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have
> better things to care about than feelings.

Are you suggesting that all the 'best coders' are arseholes? If so, do you
have any evidence to back that up?

~~~
roopeshv
"have evidence to back that up" the cop out for things you don't agree with.

how the fuck did you even conclude that they have better things to care about
than feelings means being assholes. do you have evidence to back up that's
what he means?

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bigbritches
The irony of the post is that he is one the most prolific trolls of competing
libraries to his own in Python. Asshole hater, un-asshole yourself.

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kaitnieks
Having never done open source before, I'm wondering about something: if an
open source project is started, once it becomes popular and attracts community
of developers and other contributors I assume the power shifts from the guy
who started the project to the community. Does the person who started the
project still retains his power to boot out the assholes from his project or
not?

~~~
Daniel_Newby
It depends. The founders tend to hang around and retain power. Larry Wall
(Perl) and Guido van Rossum (Python) have kept a fair amount of control and
strongly encouraged a friendly atmosphere. Debian Linux became a voting
democracy and is reasonably pleasant.

Nothing stops someone from forking an open source project, making their own
version. The BSD Unixes are famous for schisms, and some of the new founders
are famously ... opinionated. One of benefits of open source is that obnoxious
but competent people boot themselves out.

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roopeshv
In summary: "I refuse to tolerate assholes, only if it's not steve jobs or
cult figure in my cult."

(not aimed at jacob, he wrote this in a different context. but this is aimed
at xando who submitted it)

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delinquentme
I mean the name of the post alone makes him an asshole

