
Who Invented Homework? - Coliba
http://geekandnerd.org/who-invented-homework/
======
lordnacho
My feelings now are that there really shouldn't be any mandatory homework.

\- If you do it badly, you may as well not do it. Who else remembers flipping
through "The Catcher in the Rye" so fast they don't actually remember any
other character than Holden Caulfield?

\- It's an easy way for teachers to not teach, yet gives them an alibi. "Look
I'm teaching, they have loads of books to read. Can't help it if they don't."

\- If you already understand it, you don't benefit from solving more quadratic
equations. You benefit from doing whatever the next step is. You just burn
time plugging things into (-b +- sqrt (b __2-4ac)) / 2a. And you learn the
wrong lesson, which is that you have to get it exactly right, rather than why
that's the equation in the first place.

\- You end up testing which kids have peaceful homes, and parents who care.
Some kids just can't do any homework with the home environment they're given.
School should be such that it doesn't matter if your parents are drunks or
academics.

\- Totally fine with doing like in University: here's a mega list of
interesting things related to the subject, go and browse around, get a feel
for what the landscape is like. Come back more interested.

~~~
auxym
>burn time plugging things into (-b +- sqrt (b2-4ac)) / 2a

I swear to god, I had so much of that to do, I got tired of it and learned
enough python in one night, at 15, to get the computer to do my homework for
me.

~~~
bendykstra
I did that too, though in BASIC on a TI-83+. When I showed it to my math
teacher, she said that I could use the program on any future homework and
tests as long as I turned in a paragraph explaining step-by-step how the
program worked.

~~~
yolesaber
Ah looks like you actually had a smart math teacher. Mine retroactively failed
all my take-homes and homework after I showed her the program I used and
explained why I did it (rote memorization is terrible, I was more interested
in the theory and algorithms). I had to appeal to the CS teacher and principal
at my school to reverse the grade which would've prevented me from graduating

------
nibs
As an unschooler who went to school and did "homework" or any kind of
"schoolwork" for the first time when I was 12, it took me about a month to
catch up to my peers in terms of abilities to do the coursework, and about a
year to catch up to my peers in resentment and disengagement.

Except I got to spend seven years hanging out with my brothers doing fun stuff
and my friends had to spend it training to be slaves. There is no reason for
the strange masochism that is mass schooling. It is not productive, does not
produce smarter or more learned people.

~~~
hmottestad
"It is not productive, does not produce smarter or more learned people."

I would like to disagree, but I don't have anything to back up my claim that
mass schooling makes people smarter or more learned.

Like you, I just have anecdotes.

But one thing is for sure. I would never have gotten to where I am today. If I
hadn't learned english at school. Having lived in two countries, neither of
which had english as a native language, I would unlikely have learned english
unless it had been taught at school

~~~
guard-of-terra
"I would unlikely have learned english unless it had been taught at school"

You could as well play a lot of video games in English and dabbling in
programming. That's how I learned.

Everybody who relied on school for learning English - still barely understand
it.

~~~
lukewrites
Out of curiosity, does this mean that you didn't have any English lessons in
school?

I ask because in the field of Second Language Acquisition there's a pretty
strong consensus that the optimal path to language learning involves a
combination of classroom instruction augmented by interaction with (reading,
listening) & use of (speaking, writing) the language.

I've spent most of my career as a language teacher, and the typical successful
learner is one who isn't necessarily a language nerd, but almost always is
someone who does some heavy lifting in the target language outside of class. I
love students that have a goal for language use because they help me to target
my instruction to bits of language that will be immediately useful to them.
(One of the best jobs I had was teaching English to software developenow here
I am.rs; as I researched the language they needed, I started to learn
programming and )

~~~
guard-of-terra
I did have some, they began slightly later than I've got hold of a PC.

I do think that some school lessons contributed their share. I just don't
think that sitting behind a desk for two hours per week, for ten years, is
necessary or desired. After a few years I did not need much "training wheels"
and could continue to increase proficiency regardless.

~~~
lukewrites
> After a few years I did not need much "training wheels" and could continue
> to increase proficiency regardless.

Every teacher's dream outcome. Congratulations! :)

------
lucb1e
If I work somewhere and it's 5pm, I'm off unless there is some important
deadline the next day that can't be moved. And if I work extra hours, I'll get
something extra (usually money but it might also be holidays or something).

In school, teachers have the power to invade our private lives, even our set
holidays(!) with pointless tasks. Apparently 40 hours a week is not enough to
spend on school, we also need to give up part of every evening, part of most
holidays and part of many weekends.

I really hate that system. It's completely unfair, especially if you're in
school just to get that shitty piece of paper in the end. I can code already,
I taught myself perfectly well, but the prerequisites for HR usually include a
diploma, and your salary and career opportunities is often dependent on which
diploma you have. I'm just sitting it out and hate almost every assignment we
get. It's outdated and moreover, boring stuff that nobody would ever want to
use in practice.

~~~
ghaff
You're in for some very rude shocks in the work world.

------
hdctambien
Math isn't the only class that gives homework.

Should Spanish class-time be spent memorizing vocabulary and conjugations, or
practicing communicating in the language?

Should History class-time be spent reading from the book so you know what
happened, or discussing those topics and their implications?

Should English class-time be spent doing silent reading, or talking about the
books/authors/time periods that you read about?

~~~
lucb1e
It doesn't need to be class time. The issue is that "home work" invades our
private lives (evenings, weekends and holidays) due to its very definition.

If I work from home for a company, it's not called homework because it is
under the same conditions as normal work: there are set hours, I receive
compensation, the only difference is that it's not on-site.

So should Spanish class time be spent memorizing vocabulary? No, at least not
in large parts, but neither should it take more than the time allocated for
the subject[1]. It's nice that we can choose to do it either in school or at
home, but the way it presently works, homework takes up more time than it
should.

[1] Again, I don't mean allocated class hours, I mean the total number of
hours students are expected to work on something. In Dutch terms, SBUs, or
"hours the course takes from your life, class and homework and everything
together". All courses should have SBUs that add up to 40 hours per week, give
or take 5.

~~~
germinalphrase
Then - perhaps - this is an argument about whether homework should be
compulsory or not. We are constantly hearing about company cultures that
require more than 40 hrs/wk due to competition. We seem to (at least tacitly)
accept this as a price to pay for success. Should it then be that you can
receive the basic skills by merely showing up and working hard in class (which
is often true + the primary problem with low performing students) and reserve
homework for those who have higher level personal/professional goals (and
structure the work accordingly)?

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clentaminator
I'm sure the countless hours of homework in every subject that I was never
interested in (of which that number was a majority) has helped me in my
current career in not-any-of-those-subjects. /sarc

I feel like the most important things in school at that age are:

\- Exposing people to a broad range of subjects that they might be interested
in (and thus curious enough about such that they end up learning by
themselves)

\- Having teachers that can teach their subjects with enthusiasm, so that
other people can see what the teacher finds exciting so that they too can
(potentially) share in that enthusiasm and curiosity.

~~~
jib
Homework can be a good bridge to university studies imo. I would certainly
have benefited from learning self-disciplined study earlier on rather than
coasting through the Swedish equivalent of high school and then swapping
straight into university.

For under 12s or so I dont see a reason for homework. For 12-18 year olds I
think gradually moving to a more self-driven study environment would be a good
thing given that most people will end up going to university by now where that
is the norm.

~~~
aninhumer
Homework doesn't really teach self-discipline, because it is an external
motivation. If anything, I think it can work against that goal, because once
people finish their mandatory work, they have no energy or enthusiasm left to
learn for their own sake.

Perhaps I'm projecting, but mostly homework taught me how to do the minimum
possible so I could get back to playing video games.

~~~
67726e
All of highschool was just one big exercise in me doing the bare minimum in
whatever subject bored me so I could get back to programming. I knew what I
wanted to do and I'm sorry Shakespeare, but you and I both know Hamlet is of
no relevance. My usual formula for a given class was skim the current chapter,
maybe do a practice problem or two, then spend the actual class on my laptop
doing something of value to me.

------
kefka
I've heard teachers say "Well I suffered through it, so you can too."

I'd like to see empirical studies to see if it actually makes for better
performance as students, or if it's useless. I'm guessing the demagogues would
never let 'no homework' happen, at least in this country.

It'd probably also be good for the teachers, considering many complain about
having to grade outside of the paid teaching day.

~~~
carsongross
The research is not conclusive but it points to homework not being effective:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-
sheet/wp/2012/11/...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-
sheet/wp/2012/11/26/homework-an-unnecessary-evil-surprising-findings-from-new-
research/)

~~~
hdctambien
It points to homework not being effective _in elementary school_

------
elcct
That trains you to work outside your agreed working hours and to make you feel
bad if you don't do it. Essentially this is how you train slaves.

~~~
Jtsummers
Or you learn to work efficiently and finish your homework in the minutes
between classes, the bus rides to and from school, and perhaps 1-2 hours
immediately after getting home.

Unless things have changed substantially (and they may have), that was all the
time I needed for everything but research papers and projects requiring more
thought.

Self-discipline and time management can solve most of these problems. My
parents forbade video games and TV until my homework was done, and I was
honest as a kid (most of the time). So I got my shit done so I could do what I
wanted to do (watch Batman and Animaniacs, run through the woods like a mad
man).

Homework doesn't train you to be anything other than what you (really, your
parents at that age) allow it to.

------
sharmi
Homework is essential when it is well thought out and helps you understand the
material better, like problems that require you to apply multiple concepts in
math or science to arrive at a solution. Or language essays that require new
constructs or vocabulary, essentially anything that requires you to apply your
mind in new ways.

Sometimes rote memory is also required (spellings, formulae, handwriting
anyone?)

If anything, the education system in general and homework in particular makes
learning very systematic and structured, glossing over broader issues of
exploring topics on one's own, seeking out new resources and creating one's
own structure and areas of interest. It conceals the deeper questions of
education, handing the students only the low-hanging fruits of tests and
homeworks.

The education system is so effective, once the pupil is out, learning anything
significant becomes a daunting process. The inability to plan and structure
one's own learning can lead many to give up early in the process.

~~~
forrestthewoods
Sounds like you perfectly summed why our education system isn't effective. It
fails to teach students how to learn on their own!

And there's nothing to say that _homework_ is essential. It's perfectly
plausible to have students get everything done during the regular school day.

Well thought out assignments are obviously good. Why do they need to be done
at home? It's not as if third graders are listening to lectures from 8 until
3.

------
Bretlei
My brother is studying to be a teacher (In the UK) and I asked him what his
opinion was on homework.

He told me that it's a good way to get students to do some study/open up the
text book when they wouldn't have without a punishment if they didn't.

This, in my opinion leads to more stress and more work on those trying hard to
study AND do homework. Each subject wants at least 1 hour of your home time
and a student can have anywhere from 2-8 subject to study a night.

~~~
dingaling
I concur with your perspective. If students aren't opening their text-book
outside school-hours then that indicates a lack of inspiration being imparted.

I used to sit and read my _Ecce Romani!_ text-books at the weekends because my
Latin teacher was such a wonderfully eccentric and inspiring person that I
wanted to learn more for myself and to please her. I don't remember her giving
us homework other than 'learn the conjugation of this verb'.

I didn't open anything else unless forced to by homework.

~~~
timthorn
Interesting - my Mum was a Latin teacher and in the end moved away from Ecce
Romani to the Cambridge Latin Course so the Classical Civilization element got
brought out more.

You weren't in the Berkshire area for school?

------
avalexandrov
Relevant clip from Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next" (2005):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRJ1hgN7uAU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRJ1hgN7uAU)
It's about the Finnish education system based on having no homework.

------
KON_Air
I thought geeks an nerds enjoyed homework for the fact it is mental exercise
if nothing else.

Bazinga generation nerds and geeks get out of my cyber-lawn!

~~~
Morgawr
>I thought geeks an nerds enjoyed homework for the fact it is mental exercise
if nothing else.

Not really. Obviously there are different types of "geeks" and "nerds", but
generally those type of people enjoy tinkering and playing around the stuff
_they_ care about. They certainly don't like being forced to perform menial
and repetitive tasks (as often homework is) because somebody else told them
to.

~~~
cholantesh
What about people who are motivated by the prospect of academic achievement?

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petetnt
The article sources an another article that states that Finland doesn't have
any homework, which is a statement I have no idea where it comes from. As a
finnish guy, I can ensure you that there's homework being assigned on every
grade from first grade to the last course you take at a university. Unless I
have participated in some sort of twisted experiment where I have been given
homework to do while others just pretend there are doing them.

------
bpchaps
I still can't help but hate the teacher who gave the honor's class an enormous
mythology book over the summer and gave it less worth to our grade than a ten
minute grammar assignment.

Camel's back, etc, I failed the class, got kicked out of the mostly white
honor's program to being the only white kid in most classes. I got picked on
less there and enjoyed life significantly more after that. Probably the best
thing to happen in my life, actually.

------
coderdude
I fought tooth and nail against homework to my own detriment. Those counselors
just did not know what to do with me.

>Is There a Bright Future if You Don’t Do Any Homework?

Heh. Nah, not really.

~~~
ownagefool
My physics teacher attempted some reverse psychology on me and banned me from
doing homework. After a while, I think when he figured out I was happy with
that, he got fed up with that routine and started asking for the homework
again but I still didn't bother.

In hindsight my grades probably suffered, but only as far as the fact I didn't
have all this still drilled into my memory. I doubt it made me any less smart,
and instead of doing said homework, I played with my computer which blossumed
into a highly paid career.

~~~
c1641287
I'm still waiting for the "highly paid" part.

~~~
ownagefool
This probably just requires you to move. However, try not to spend it all
living the life if you do, otherwise you'll be no better off in the end.

------
Avernar
Massive amounts of homework is the perfect training for future work in North
America. When kids get used to doing 60-80 hours worth of schoolwork for the
same education that can be done in 40 hours they won't complain when their
future boss demands 60-80 hours of work for the pay of 40 hours.

------
brudgers
A few years ago, I found _The Homework Myth: Why Our Kids Get Too Much of a
Bad Thing_ an interesting read. It shaped my views on homework [context: US
public schools].

[http://www.alfiekohn.org/homework-myth/](http://www.alfiekohn.org/homework-
myth/)

------
lr4444lr
This whole article is U.S. centric. Is there any meta analysis of global PISA
scores and hours spent on homework?

------
LukeB_UK
I only ever did the homework I was interested in and quite a few times it
helped me understand it better.

~~~
Morgawr
As somebody who's never (or almost never) done homework, I have to say that I
regret not doing it. I've always understood most of the material being taught
and I've always seen homework as a waste of time (this is also a good excuse
because I simply was lazy), however I have to admit that the very few times
I've managed to sit down and do some homework, it really was useful (but I
never admitted it).

Just practicing math problems, or typing out notes and essays, or even
practicing a new language... That's all stuff that is useful. Sure you can go
without, and probably schools assign way more than they should (I know it was
the case for me), but homework itself at least is not a negative thing.

------
Ryuuke
When the time machine comes out, i'll use it to hang him so that humans could
live happily :D

------
xyzzy4
Some of my best teachers would give us optional homework.

~~~
kasparsklavins
There still can be pressure from parent-figures to complete this "optional"
homework.

~~~
xyzzy4
True, but being pressured by your parents isn't as bad as having a tarnished
academic record from not doing homework.

