
Ask HN: How expensive is living in Silicon Valley - niico
I thinking on moving there next year. I really want to jump in the tech action right away.<p>Where is the best place to move? How expensive could cost every month of living on average?<p>Thanks
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nostromo
In the spirit of openness...

Rent: I live on Nob Hill in SF. I pay $1950 for a big, nice one bedroom with a
little office and a small private yard. (100sq feet.) When I signed the lease
I was making good money so it didn't seem expensive. Since then I've decided
to focus on my start-up full time, so now it does seem slightly pricey. (I
only pay 50% though -- I'm coupled.) I've lived in New York and Seattle, and
SF is nowhere near as expensive as New York and nowhere near as affordable as
Seattle (in terms of renting, not buying).

Beyond rent, things are very affordable.

Transportation: cheap, cars are optional (I don't need one; I hate mechanics
and oil changes and parking...). I get my groceries delivered and use ZipCar
when I have to drive. This is a huge savings and a good reason to live in the
heart of the city. Instead of a gym, I just walk up the hill everyday.

Healthcare: I'm on Cobra right now, but will qualify for SF City HealthCare
for free soon, as I'll be making little money. This is a big reason to live in
SF and not the peninsula. <http://www.healthysanfrancisco.org>

Entertainment: The most expensive thing I do is eat out with friends semi-
regularly. However, I've found that for geeks, there are a ton of meet ups and
other social events that are 100% free -- and they're usually the best way to
have fun.

Other threads are noting the cost of rent in SF, but for me, the city health
care coverage and not needing a car (or insurance, or gas, or parking) more
than makes up for it.

~~~
va1en0k
(just a stupid question: 1950$ per month or per year?)

~~~
Psyonic
per month, for sure

~~~
va1en0k
thank you. It's a bit less than I pay for a small room in Saint-Petersburg per
year

~~~
learner4life
St Pete is FL or St Pete in Russia? I would be amazed if you got a single room
for 2000$ a year in St Pete FL.

~~~
techbio
I am about 15 miles from St. Pete, FL, 75 yards from the Gulf of Mexico, in a
nice sized one bedroom apartment with parking and small fenced yard: $700/mo.
Gorgeous sunsets through the big west facing front windows, and 20 miles of
sandy beach to get AFK and clear my head, throw a disc, walk, swim, or fish.

But I could trade it for a couch and a subway pass in a city with good subways
and international impact. (SF, NYC, CHI, BOS ;)

~~~
endtime
You can definitely get a decent room in a 2-3 person apartment in Astoria
(Queens) for $700/month. It's not Chelsea but it's not quite the middle of
nowhere either.

~~~
wan23
I think many people outside of New York wouldn't ever consider an apartment
share, but it's pretty common here. I live near Times Square in Manhattan and
I'm paying $900 for a room in a (small) two bedroom apartment.

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mk
Check it out for yourself on the awesome padmapper:
[http://www.padmapper.com/?lat=37.69897768523249&lng=-122...](http://www.padmapper.com/?lat=37.69897768523249&lng=-122.43988037109376&minRent=0&maxRent=6000&searchTerms=&maxPricePerBedroom=6000&minBR=0&maxBR=10&minBA=1&maxAge=7&imagesOnly=false&cats=false&dogs=false&noFee=false&showSubs=true&showNonSubs=true&userId=-1&cl=true&apts=true&ood=true&forrent=true&zoom=12&favsOnly=false&workplaceLat=0&workplaceLong=0&maxTime=0)

~~~
wickedchicken
Damn... awesome is right. I'd be curious how they crawl all this data
(especially the craigslist listings).

~~~
drags
Craigslist has RSS feeds that respect categories/search terms:
<http://www.craigslist.org/about/rss> :) You're technically not supposed to
use them for search engines specific to housing, but Craigslist doesn't seem
very serious about enforcement.

~~~
wickedchicken
I wonder if landlords will go after this like the hotel industry went after
AirBnB. Any accurate information a potential renter has about other apartments
in the area can only hurt the landlord.

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aeontech
Since most responses focus on SF or the peninsula, I want to add my 2c. Living
in East Bay (Oakland or Berkeley) is also a good option. Rent in
Emeryville/South Berkeley/North Oakland is cheaper than SF, but it's still
easy to get to SF/Peninsula by BART.

We were renting a 1400sq ft 3 bedroom house in Emeryville for $1750/mo a
couple years back, and a 700sq ft 1 bedroom apartment in South Berkeley for
$750/mo before that. An 1800 sq ft house in Oakland rents for about $2200.

There's a lot of students in Berkeley, so it's also easier to find
rooms/sublets than in SF, possibly. As far as public transit goes, it's a bit
more painful than SF, but not too bad. My morning commute from Oakland to work
in SOMA takes about 30 minutes - 10 minute walk, 15 minutes (2 stops) on BART,
another 5 minute walk. No stress, no driving, no tolls, no parking fees ($3
dollars one way, versus $5 bridge toll, $20 for a day's parking downtown, and
a couple bucks in gas you'd spend driving).

<http://housingmaps.com/> (craigslist frontend) can give you a good idea about
the price ranges around different locations in the Bay Area.

~~~
_delirium
If you work in SF, I agree the commute is easy, but if you work on the
peninsula, it's not very fun trying to get from Berkeley to Palo Alto daily.

~~~
aeontech
That's true, but the OP said he's only planning to move here; hence, I imagine
he's not tied to a particular job location yet. Also, I know plenty of people
commuting to SF from Dublin/Pleasanton/Walnut Creek, which is comparable to
getting from Berkeley to Palo Alto. But you're right, having to switch to
Caltrain to go anywhere further south than Millbrae is a pain.

------
whatevers2009
I've lived in Portland Oregon, Seattle Washington, Dallas Texas, and San
Francisco as well as Silicon Valley and I can honestly say living in SF or
Silicon Valley is way more expensive. Rent probably averages about $1700-$2300
for a decent one bedroom apartment and more for two bedroom per month.

Utilities are about the same everywhere you live. Public transportation is a
bit spendier than every other city I've lived in (Caltrain and BART costs).
Unsure about the Bus, it's probably comparable.

Sales Tax is ridiculously higher here than anywhere I've been. If you live in
the city and eat out, expect an addition 3-4% health tax charged at most
restaurants.

Parking sucks in the city. Street cleaning tickets of $53 to $103 dollars are
VERY common. Expect to bankroll a ton of parking meters whether you live
downtown or not or pay a lot in parking garages if you plan on using your car
to get around the city.

Entertainment costs are also higher than most other places I've lived. A
standard movie ticket here is like $11 or so up to $17 with IMAX per ticket
per showing. That should give you a rough idea of cost.

Groceries and Household Shopping. I've compared cost of stuff like shampoo and
what not to cost I use to pay outside of California and noticed that for the
same size bottle or smaller, I am paying possible a couple dollars more even
from the same store. So cost of goods is slightly more expensive here base on
a few comparisons I've done.

That should give you a ROUGH estimate on how much things cost around here and
what it would be like.

~~~
barrkel
This all looks pretty cheap from my London-oriented eyes. Coming from Ireland,
I'm used to the equivalent of sales tax being 21%; the UK having 17.5 seems
low. A reserved seat (so you don't have to show up early) in my local cinema
(Islington Vue) runs to 17.31 USD according to today's rates, and that's just
an ordinary cinema, not IMAX. And of course the other side of the equation is
the increased salaries (outside of banks etc. in London, anyhow).

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frederickcook
Garry Tan from Posterous made this a while back:

[http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0...](http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=111291639665197066699.00048b3c0d910bf1a232a)

~~~
templaedhel
Thats really useful, especially for someone like me who has no idea of the
parts of San Fransisco.

~~~
c3o
Also see:
[http://seldo.com/weblog/2010/09/04/san_francisco_city_guide_...](http://seldo.com/weblog/2010/09/04/san_francisco_city_guide_map_for_the_prospective_resident)

~~~
templaedhel
I think the first one is slightingly less opinionated, more rational then this
one. However, that makes this one much more fun to read.

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veemjeem
Pretty cheap in mountain view. I pay around $600 for rent (2 bedroom with
roommate). Food prices are actually comparable/cheaper than other places in
the US. If you shop at those asian grocery stores, you can get similar produce
at about half the cost that Safeway/Kroger would normally sell at. Price for a
normal cheap dinner on Castro St is around $8-12.

If you're renting, Silicon Valley is actually comparable to the rest of the
USA. When I lived in Atlanta, I paid around $500 for rent, but I had to drive
a lot further to access public transportation.

~~~
dasil003
This isn't credible at all. Two-bedroom in Mountain View for $1200? Please
name the apartment complex you are living in. A one-bedroom in Mountain View
is already on the extremely ghetto side. Decent places start at about $1400
for a one-bedroom.

~~~
lsc
Anyone who thinks there is a ghetto part of mountain view is, uh, way more
wealthy and has much higher standards than I do. I mean, there are "less good"
parts of mountain view, but there isn't anything even close to ghetto.

~~~
Mrdev4
I agree California st is sketchy, but i would never call it ghetto,I think
someone needs a ride to EPA.

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LeBlanc
Food is also a lot more expensive. You can mitigate this a lot by cooking all
your own food and not eating out. Shopping from low cost markets like The Milk
Pail <http://www.milkpail.com/> will help a lot.

My recommendation for eating cheaply is to make sure to have good collection
of spices. It costs a lot upfront (~$40-60) but it will allow you to subsist
on really cheap food without going crazy. Living off rice and beans is a lot
more fun and tasty when you can make masala rice.

~~~
nostromo
If you have the space for it, grow an herb garden. Seriously. :) I never
thought I would enjoy taking care of plants, but it's actually quite
interesting. My latest addition is arugula, which so far seems super easy to
grow and can provide an infinite amount of salads with little upkeep.

~~~
cincinnatus
Second this. Some basil and sage go a long way for pasta and other things.
Rosemary and some parsley next. Then oregano.

Salad greens are super easy, climate is good for it most of the year.

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bigbang
I pay 800$ for a single bed apt(~600-700 sq.ft) in Sunnyvale. Apartments which
don't have gated community,pools,gym etc are cheaper. I realized I never used
those anyway, so I moved to an apt which have none of these(but has covered
parking). Usually these are smaller blocks of ~6 apts and older. There are
plenty of those in south bay when I looked.

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PStamatiou
I live in the Mission and have a ~400 sq foot studio in a not-vintage building
(~1970s) for $1600/month (includes $250/month parking spot). I'm 4 blocks from
Safeway, Muni rail, Bart, my gym, 2 blocks from other Muni buses.

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feverishaaron
We rent at $2,200.00/mo for a 4/2 in south sj. That would be 3-3.5k in
mountain view or cupertino, when we looked in August. If you time it right,
you can find cheaper places. The absolute worse time to move (highest rents)
is right before school starts.

Gas is $3.15/gal right now.

Food is ranges from 0%-15% more than the midwest (our comparison point).
Shopping at local markets and farmers markets for produce will save you quite
a bit.

Other chain stores and casual restaurants seem to cost slightly more than we
were used to paying.

Any service that requires direct labor (gardening, cleaning etc) is going to
be significantly more expensive than other metros, because the base cost of
living is so much higher.

~~~
kd0amg
_Food is ranges from 0%-15% more than the midwest (our comparison point)._

Where in the Midwest did you use for this comparison? As far as I can tell
from visiting, most grocery items cost my parents (near Chicago) 50-150% more
than I pay for them (in Michigan).

------
bearwithclaws
Paul Stamatiou made a great post a while back on moving to SF:
[http://paulstamatiou.com/atlanta-to-san-francisco-moving-
cro...](http://paulstamatiou.com/atlanta-to-san-francisco-moving-cross-
country)

------
lsc
silicon valley is _way_ cheaper than SF, but it's much less friendly to people
who don't have cars. If you live near a caltrain and you work for a major
corporation, you can probably get away with not having a car (most major
companies have company shuttles that go to the caltrain) but it will put a
crimp in your social activities.

Silicon Valley is essentially suburb. You can pay as much as you want on the
high end... on the low end, a room in a house or shared appartment in the
"poor" parts of Santa Clara or Sunnyvale might be $650/month.

the upside, here, is that things near the train stops are generally cheaper. I
rented a 2bed 1bath apartment right over the Lawrence express way caltrain in
santa clara for $1250/month total ($625 per person.)

If you want to live alone, the low end is $800-$1000.

The interesting thing about the valley is that I don't know of any
neighbourhoods south of east palo alto and north of San Jose that I'd feel
uncomfortable walking around in at night. And most of San Jose is pretty okay,
too, so don't be afraid of the low end.

Food? in the grocery store, as far as I can tell, it costs about the same as
anywhere. If you go out to eat, well, fast food is about as cheap as it is
elsewhere. If you want to eat at local non-chains, you are looking at $8-$15
per meal, which is a bit more, I think, than most places.

If I were moving here for the social scene, personally, I'd get a cheap shared
room close to the hacker dojo in mountain view.

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jmtame
$300/month at palo alto hacker house if you don't mind roommates (who happen
to be interested in startups too). i think i was paying ~$700/month at the
mountain view hacker house.

~~~
Psyonic
$300 for your own room?

~~~
dwynings
No, a single room at the Hacker House is ~$600. Still a hell of a good deal.

~~~
Psyonic
I agree. $600 in Palo Alto is practically free.

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niico
Someone should make a mini site for "Entrepreneurs/Roomate dating"!

Like: Name, age, nationality, startup name, coding language, smoke? pets?
girl/boyfriend?.

Same for people looking to share their officespace

~~~
samratjp
Agree to the first idea. Second one - this is a recent launch outta Rails
Rumble: <http://desksnear.me/>

~~~
warren_s
Currently desksnear.me is focused on casual, short-term coworking/office
sharing, but we're definitely interested in finding a way to connect startups
who are looking to share a space on a longer-term basis.

------
invertedlambda
Definitely depends on where you'll be working and commuting from/to. Commuting
is a big deal in my book.

My guide would be: if you work in the City, anywhere between SF and San Carlos
is a good bet. You can avoid the morning commute by taking BART.

If you work on the Peninsula, there's Caltrain for getting around. And you can
take BART as far as Millbrae. Some companies (notably Genentech) have shuttles
that take people from the big transit stations to work, but YMMV.

Beware "The Oracle Mile". It's 1 mile North and South of Ralston Ave. on
US-101. It is a parking lot every weekday between 8am and 9:30am. Evening
commute also. I know some people have different experiences, but that's been
what I run into most often.

Generally, in the Bay Area (at least West Bay), either get to work before 8 or
after 10. Otherwise you'll be spending a lot of time with all your other happy
morning commuters. :P

Places to live? If you can take the rent, the Peninsula is nice. Half Moon Bay
is on the coast and works well if your work is close to the 92 freeway.

I wasn't a fan of living in Pacifica, but some people are. Not much to do
there as it's mainly a commuter town.

Just my 2c.

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j_baker
I live in the mission and pay $1850/month for rent. One nice thing about
living in the city is that utilities are pretty cheap. I pay about $100/month
for everything. In Texas, electricity was at least twice that. Plus food isn't
terribly expensive nor is transportation. In short, rent is terrible, but if
you can make that, SF isn't too bad a place to live.

~~~
kd0amg
_Plus food isn't terribly expensive nor is transportation._

About how expensive are groceries? Most of the posts here only really mention
rent, which isn't enough to fully describe cost of living.

~~~
mbenjaminsmith
When I lived in SF last (2 - 3 years ago), groceries were inexpensive in
comparison to rent and eating out. I think my girlfriend and I spent around
$200 per month on groceries (shopping at a Safeway in the financial district)
vs $2.1k for rent and $50 - 100$ every time we went out for a decent meal. If
you want to be in the city and save money by cooking it does make a big
difference.

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URSpider94
Just to ad a different perspective from a lot of the people on the list,
family housing in Silicon Valley is MUCH more expensive than probably anywhere
else in the country.

I just moved out here in August, from Boston. We left behind a decent house in
a nice suburb with good schools, for which we paid a little under $600,000.
When I bought that home a few years ago, it seemed incredibly expensive. Out
here, a comparable property in the heart of Silicon Valley will run you at
least $1 million, if not $1.3.

~~~
hkarthik
LOL how depressing. Guess I'll just have to live vicariously through the other
posters. Lesson to the rest of you, get SV living out of your system before
you settle down and have kids.

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whyenot
I'd try and avoid San Francisco. Yes,it's beautiful, and if you know the muni
public transportation system you can get around easily without a car, but
rents can be high (like $1300 for a studio apartment that isn't scummy). I'd
look in Mountain View or Sunnyvale. If keeping costs low is very important,
the northern part of San Jose probably has the lowest rents ($800-900 for a
large studio / one bedroom appt) for an area near Silicon Valley. Palo Alto
and areas north can be quite pricey.

~~~
jrockway
Depends on whether or not you have a car. You won't be able to survive out in
the suburbs, but you'll be fine in SF proper. If you have a car for free, then
go for the suburbs, but if you have to buy one then the "savings" you get from
living in the middle of nowhere might not be very high.

I visited Mountain View yesterday, and it was one of the most depressing
places I have ever seen. It's the suburbs, but as expensive as a big city.

~~~
dannyr
Google Headquarters.

Diverse list of excellent restaurants (Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Mexican,
etc.)

No heavy traffic

Low crime rate

Lots of startups especially on Castro st.

Warmer by a few degrees than SF

Hacker Dojo

Sunday Farmers Market

Yeah, it's depressing.

~~~
blackguardx
It isn't the 70s or 80s anymore. There aren't that many places in the US where
the crime rate deters people from living.

~~~
fragmede
How many of your friends live in the Tenderloin?

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bkhl
It all depends where you live. If you would like to live in the city (San
Francisco), one bedroom or studio can go up as much as $2000 per month. If you
are considering to move around Palo Alto/Mountain View, the rent becomes
around 12-1500s. If you are considering Sunnyvale/San Jose, the rent becomes
1000ish.

If you are going to work at Mountain View/Palo Alto area, I highly recommend
to live in Sunnyvale, because the rent isn't as expensive and it's not too far
(5-15min drive on 101).

~~~
niico
If I move there. Let's say, Palo Alto/ Mo. View I would be probably working on
my startup all day long. Maybe for a walk/gym for an hour or so.

The only time I would need to move from there would be, maybe to attend to a
meetup, meeting, etc.

The question would be.

How do I move from side to side. Public transportation? Is it safe to walk at
night (Past 10/11/12pm).

THanks

~~~
dannyr
I live in Mt View and go to the city about once a week.

I take Caltrain ($6 each way) to the city but you can't stay too late. The
last train from SF leaves at around midnight. It would suck if you miss it
because a taxi would probably cost you $100.

There is an excellent coworking space in Mt View - Hacker Dojo which is $100 a
month. I used to live in SF but I prefer being in Mt View since it's cheaper
and for me, safer. Also, you don't have to deal with parking.

Not having a car might be a pain though. Get a bike at least.

By the way, hit me up (danny -at- launchset.com). My cofounder and I are in
Buenos Aires for the next 3 weeks.

------
Mz
I used to live in Solano County, which is the cheap seats of the SF Bay Area.
It is still the most expensive place I have ever lived but was a good bit
cheaper than most of the rest of the Bay Area. There are more than 100 cities
in the SFBA, so there is some flexibility on how expensive it is. You might
try checking out bestplaces.net and city-data.com to get a better idea.

------
Tyrant505
Not sure why this data fact is absent in every single comment but: How much
for a pint of beer? Six pack? (kind?)

~~~
gojomo
...because real software startups involve a bit less drinking-while-coding
than you might think from watching The Social Network?

~~~
Tyrant505
Was it a good movie? I don't think I'll ever see it... but I like to gauge
prices based on beer because it seems to give an overall perspective on value.

~~~
gojomo
It was a good movie, highly recommended overall, but the idea long coding
sessions are strongly associated with beer-drinking was one of the few false
notes.

FYI, a pint in The City (SF itself) can range you from $2.50 to $6 depending
on place and time.

------
usaar333
For pure rent, in Sunnyvale, I had a 3 bedroom house with $1900/month rent. I
had the smallest room - and with 4 guys there - my rent hovered around $400.
Utilities were pretty trivial ($20 month avg per person). I had a car, but
could have lived with just a bike if money was an issue.

------
teuobk
I lived for about a year in Palo Alto near El Camino and Page Mill. I had a
2-bedroom apartment (1050 sq ft) for which the rent was $1800. I split it with
a roommate to bring the cost down to $900 for each of us. Utilities were
another $100 per month or so, total.

------
Mrdev4
I don't recommend San Jose, It took me a hour to get to Mountain View by car
and longer by public transportation.I recommend Santa Clara.

------
kentbrew
Don't forget to look in East Palo Alto, which isn't nearly as scary as people
make it out to be.

~~~
Mrdev4
I don't recommend EPA for anyone, most of the people who live there are trying
to get out.

------
suliamansaleh
are thier a lot of english(uk) people in silcon valley?

~~~
jlees
There are a fair few, but I don't run into other Brits that frequently in
either the startup or work scenes. If I had to put a number on it, about 2/100
of the people I've met are British like me, 3-4/100 Aussie, 2-3/100 Singapore,
and 10-20/100 "other european".

