

I won't be using Angular for my next project and neither should you - senoff
https://javascriptkicks.com/r/2657?url=/stories/2657/i-wont-be-using-angular-for-my-next-project-and-neither-should-you

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gherkin
Clicking the back button after going to this article prevents you from
returning to HN, but rather sends you to jskicks' front page and re-opens the
article.

Really shitty behavior. Or is this supposed to work better on mobile?

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thesnider
Not only is it hard to read on mobile, it also somehow disables inertia
scrolling, something I've never experienced on an angularjs site

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mmilano
The Sharepoint experience comparison is pretty pointless. The complaint is
that he's being consulted to fix things un-qualified people broke. Sounds
like, consulting.

I haven't put food on the table with Sharepoint consulting, but "broken
installations" can be done via the GUI by employees with admin access right?
... where breaking AngularJS apps would be done by those with access to the
code. Very different.

Then what type of consulting doesn't feel like selling your soul when you've
achieved a significant level of expertise in an area?

Pretty dramatic, but interesting bits none the less.

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lgunsch
He talks about "Juniors learning bad habbits," but fails to meantion what any
of those habbits are. It sounds like he thinks its over engineered.

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gnrlbzik
I must say my gut reaction to such titles is usually rejection of premiss. But
I must say article is well written and on point. Time will tell.

~~~
craigching
Personally I would have liked more concrete examples of the problem he's
outlined. For instance, his assertion that it teaches junior programmers bad
habits. Like what? I'm not sure that's been my experience, but I'm a seasoned
JavaScript developer and understand what's going on under the covers. I really
would like to better understand that if I use Angular and expose it to my
junior programmers, what problems am I likely to encounter so that I can
counter them? That would have made this article much more useful to me. It
appears to be just a screed without any concrete examples.

~~~
artjumble
Agreed. It is hard to just accept these viewpoints without backing them up
with some examples or data.

The v2 opinion and comparison to SharePoint just sounds mostly like FUD.

The comments about junior devs and masquerading as javascript I just don't
buy. Sure someone new to programming might be able to just throw something
together and not learn, but someone attempting to learn will still learn a lot
using Angular.

~~~
gnrlbzik
Well I can relate to notion. Not to the exact manner. But when I had a small
team and we worked on app, about 2.5 years ago. I would say that general
premise was in regards of PRs that i have reviewed, is that more junior devs,
would over populated logic in templates and in general just do little bit of
extra code in places where it should of not existed. That said, I think it is
applicable to any junior developer, when documentation is a bit convoluted. I
can't say that Angular has the best documentation and has no ramp up time to
get on board with it, if anything it has longer ramp up time. Especially if
you start from scratch as a team.

~~~
robertthegrey
You've hit the nail on the head, but I honestly don't know why more senior
developers can't see it - unless they don't actually work with juniors on a
regular basis? Anyway, due to all the cries about FUD on the topic of juniors
specifically, I decided it needs its own writeup - you can find it here if you
want more clarification:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8965935](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8965935)

~~~
craigching
Actually I work pretty closely with my juniors and teach them the right way to
do it. That and provide a code base of conventions that shows them the right
way to do it. It's really hard for me to understand how you let juniors get to
the point of having bad habits. If you see them doing something wrong, let
them know, provide them feedback telling them why what they did was wrong and
show them how to do it right. It's really not that hard, just part of the job.

Any technology (not just Angular) has the potential to be misused. As a senior
developer/architect it's my job to review and mentor my teammates as
appropriate. I don't really see this as a problem particular to Angular, it's
something you have to watch out for everywhere.

~~~
gnrlbzik
Well thats the goal of PRs : ) But its not one time affair, and takes time and
investment from your self. So I like to think that I have done right by devs i
worked with, helped them out a lot, gave them freedom and responsibilities. It
paid off for those who stuck around.

Bottom line, it depends on so many things and so much time, to bring everyone
on same level. And some developers are brought for only like 3 months. For a
project that I ve been part of, so devs just did not like the project that
they worked on, and cycled right through.

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ufo
Is it really true that the order you write html attributes/directives in
angular matters? That was pretty surprising for me.

~~~
artjumble
After looking at the linked article and reading the comments, it appears that
it doesn't make an actual impact on performance. He is just suggesting the
ordering for consistency.

~~~
robertthegrey
I don't know how you can say that when in his article he clearly says:

"In AngularJS, not all HTML attributes are equal; some have no significant
effect; others have a profound impact on how your page is rendered."

If it was just about consistency, then it would for part of an Angular style
guide that so many companies produce.

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malandrew
Check out mercury. It, react and mithril are the only sane choices.

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senoff
Yep. Robert's a crack dev and I found his insights on the issues with Angular
spot on.

