
“Startup” asks internship applicant to build their app before phone screen - erklik
https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/78rhz7/this_startup_asked_me_to_do_a_project_for_an/
======
holtalanm
'This position is paid after a 3 month training. This is non-negotiable and
keeps us from hiring engineers that end up being toxic to our long term goals
and just looking for a pay day'

What the hell? That is the whole _point_ of a job. You know...to get paid for
it.

Like, what do they expect their employees to do for three months while they're
not getting paid? Live in a cardboard box down by the river?

I mean, I get it. It is probably just a scam to get people to work for free,
but regardless, that policy is absolutely idiotic.

~~~
jaymzcampbell
When I read that I was fuming on behalf of all the interns that have to put up
with this sort of crap. It's disgusting. The original poster has named the
company as _" Bee Technologies Inc"_ [1].

They're also advertising for a "Junior Front End Engineer" for _no salary_ and
2-5% equity. They seem to think they are doing the world a favour. Arrogance
in the highest. [2]

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/78rhz7/t...](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/78rhz7/this_startup_asked_me_to_do_a_project_for_an/dowook9/)

[2] [https://angel.co/bee-technologies-inc/jobs/275465-junior-
fro...](https://angel.co/bee-technologies-inc/jobs/275465-junior-front-end-
engineer)

~~~
beisner
I agree this is pretty ridiculous. It does make me wonder though, what is the
appropriate way to bring people on when you can’t pay them? I.e. you have no
money and are just starting out (1-2ppl), and need someone to help? Do you
just make them a co-founder? Or can you structure an employment agreement that
grants a substantial percent of equity with a guaranteed salary starting X
months after start? I ask because I’m wondering how companies that bootstrap
without investment grow headcount.

Edit: I guess I should have been less ambiguous, I wasn't really talking about
an employee/employer situation, I agree all work should be paid for. Now that
I think about it more, I guess the scenario I was describing was 1-2 people
working on a project, and then getting someone else in their immediate circle
(i.e. friend, connection, etc) involved. I guess this person would then be
called a co-founder, since they are assuming similar risk as the 1-2 original
people. My question was more, how have others structured equity for those
people, (co-founders?) who join significantly after inception?

~~~
CiPHPerCoder
> what is the appropriate way to bring people on when you can’t pay them?

You don't.

Pay people for their work, or don't hire them. Anything else is at best
ethically gray, but almost always bad.

~~~
tjic
So much this.

If you aren't generating profits, and want someone to work for you, either:

* borrow the money in your own name

* borrow against your house

* don't bring them on

You're the one creating the risk. You've gotta eat it.

Anything else is massively unethical.

------
xwvvvvwx
_Bee is a photo sharing site that connects you with your favorite brands.You
post photos to Bee and they 're sent directly to the people who matter. You
get nationwide exposure and photo credit as your shot is featured on
everything from billboards to social media.

How it works:

1) Share photos directly

No more @-ing companies and hoping they see. With Bee, every photo is sent
directly to our partner companies. Your photos, not your follower count, is
what matters. Take your talent to the next level and get the nationwide
exposure you deserve.

2) Bee yourself

Bee lets you connect with your brand judgement free. No more worrying about
spamming your friends feeds. With Bee, you can post what you want, when you
want. This means more fame for you with none of the downsides.

3) Bee famous

Bee is all about making you famous. We turn brands into your personal PR team.
Companies agree to give you photo credit on everything from billboards to
social media. You keep all the rights to your photos while the world’s biggest
brands give you nationwide exposure._

[https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bee-technologies-
inc](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bee-technologies-inc)

I don't understand at all what they're trying to build. An easier way for
people to let brands use their images for free?

~~~
cabalamat
AFAICT they want people to take photos for free and give them to advertisers
to use. They expect their programmers to work for free too.

Do I detect a pattern there?

~~~
0xJRS
Soon they'll roll out a new tier, you pay them $10 per photo you take. New
jobs will open up too, for the low price of $100/hr you can pay to work at a
hot new start up.

~~~
minusSeven
hahahahha. There will surely never be jobs like that in the furture right ?
right ? ...............

------
otakucode
It is illegal for unpaid interns to do ANY work, at ANY point, which provides
value to your business. Interns need to know this. Employers need to know this
as well, but they've proven that they can't be trusted a million times.

'Make game of that which makes as much of thee.' Employers are going to treat
employees like a cost center to be reduced, a factor to be manipulated in
order to optimize things, etc and the only way that can not end in tragedy is
if everyone is aware and the employees play the employer just as much. This is
what employers chose.

~~~
aerovistae
this comment would carry a little more weight if you could cite the laws to
which you refer

~~~
detaro
for the US:
[https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf](https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf)

~~~
segmondy
The employer that provides the training derives no IMMEDIATE advantage from
the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be
impeded;

Thus, an intern can do work that the company profits from, it just doesn't
need to be immediate.

~~~
forgottenpass
Yes, but in context that clause seems more aimed towards an intern being
accidentally useful, not picking up tasks with a deadline more than X months
out.

Having something done now that will start being useful later on still has
arguable immediate value from the perspectives of scheduling and investing in
the future of the company.

------
samfisher83
Here is the founding team from crunchbase:

    
    
      Erik Byargeon, Lucas McGartland, Lukas Huberman, Andrew Ullmann . Three of those guys are not technical.  
    

Erik Byargeon was an intern at Amazon.

So I am not sure how you are going to mentored by top Amazon Engineers. It
also doesn't look like their site has much traction so I don't know how the
stock is worth anything.

I guess you fake it until you make it.

~~~
zbruhnke
I actually know some of the family members of one of the guys here - they are
good people and he's got a brother that is also a known entity in the tech
world - here's to hoping they can understand why this was a poor approach and
learn from it.

We've all been young and made mistakes - I know that does not make all of this
OK but I also know I wouldn't want to have to live in infamy for everything I
did when I was in college either

~~~
rajacombinator
There's mistakes and then there's premeditated immoral scamming. They'll learn
- how to be more clever next time.

------
fsociety
I’m reminded of Donald Trump. “We have a complex tech stack, the most complex
tech stack in the world. Tons of great people work here. The smartest people
working on the most complex tech stack in the world. Lots of great code. The
best code ever.”

Some people are so dehumanizing when it comes to work and full of themselves.

~~~
ochenvoysim
This was my exact impression as well. "you will also be working alongside one
of the leading React developers in the world"..... Wow, wonder if he'll sign
my laptop.

------
apetresc
Is there a single interview method on Earth that will satisfy HN? These are
all arguments I've heard in the last few weeks on here:

\- Whiteboard coding is too far removed from "real work", not effective at
testing general aptitude, and is demeaning.

\- Asking to see side projects presupposes an unhealthy amount of focus on
work, discriminates against people with lives, and is demeaning.

\- Asking for a custom piece of real-world code that matches the company's
actual stack is exploitative, should be illegal, and is demeaning.

\- Basing everything on answers to 'soft' questions about previous experience
discriminates against people who aren't interested in showmanship, leads to
too many suits and bros, and is demeaning.

What on Earth should we be doing, then? Everyone on Hacker News is so
enlightened and skilled at their job, that any form of verification is
demeaning and beneath their dignity. Apparently I should make my hiring
decision based on their comment history or something.

~~~
adamnemecek
You come in and hack with the team for a couple hours. You know, the activity
that you'll be paid to do. How is this that hard?

~~~
rglullis
You are saying that an engineer from my already resource-constrained team
should be allocated to:

\- make a quick onboarding of the candidate

\- explain the general architecture of the system

\- find an issue/story that is "superficial" enough to be taken by someone
with zero-experience _at that job_ , but "deep" enough that you can test their
experience and knowledge (oh, and that story better not involve anything that
might be related to core company IP.)

\- do a pair-programming session with the candidate, and be the main driver
ALL OF THE TIME (because the candidate does not have any git access, so their
development environment is useless)

\- evaluate the candidate

You really think that is something for "a couple hours"? Even if it were, do
you think it is a good use of the time of the engineer that is going to be
allocated to the task?

~~~
adamnemecek
Never said it needs to be the current system. Make a simplified version if you
want. Or something completely different that uses the similar
languages/paradigms?

> Even if it were, do you think it is a good use of the time of the engineer
> that is going to be allocated to the task?

So what exactly is the alternative? Look, if you can't prioritize hiring,
don't be surprised that you aren't able to hire. Yes, the engineers should be
able to do this.

~~~
rglullis
How many "systems" do you think your run-of-the-mill startup has?

What is the alternative? As most of things in life, the answer is "it
depends". It depends on the size of the company, the type of candidate they
are looking, the industry, and so on.

But let's assume we are talking about the average startup that is neither
looking for superstar candidates nor only looking for fresh graduates from
Stanford. For those cases, I believe that one simple programming task, that
exercises some of the technology required can be used as a _screening filter_.
The task should not take more than 2 hours to reach a working state. If the
solution presented by the candidate is satisfactory, _then_ you go to the
interview to discuss the solution and how they got to the solution, the things
that were easy/hard, and so on. Then you ask about the things that are
missing, and the candidate's evaluation on how they would like to tackle.

Is that a satisfactory alternative?

~~~
adamnemecek
I feel like we are talking past each other.

> How many "systems" do you think your run-of-the-mill startup has?

These dont need to be production systems, they can in fact be simple systems
used just for interviewing.

So in your alternative, how long does an engineer really spend on interviewing
the candidate?

~~~
rglullis
In my alternative, the engineer needs to:

\- Check out the code and review the solution.

\- Give a pass or "call for interview".

Let's say that is half-hour of work.

Only for the candidates that get called-in, you can have an hour-long
interview. Make it two hours if if you want. It will still save the
interviewer time, and allow a better use of the time together.

------
cure
Ah, the startup is a photo sharing site. Of course.

That explains the "very complex tech stack" that requires a 3 month unpaid
stint before you can even get hired.

~~~
jenskanis
Looking at their vacancies, getting hired equals an unpaid position with 2-5%
equity. Maybe the landlord and local supermarket accepts equity with a 4-year
vesting scheme.

~~~
fapjacks
Well, if your mom or dad pays your rent and groceries like these guys, no
salary and 2-5% is totally realistic, I guess?

------
csmattryder
They're asking an intern to build a competitor, when they themselves have as
much traction as a tank in a swamp, and the product is an easily-built-with-
React Instagram clone.

I look forward to the inevitable Medium post when they fold next month.

~~~
overcast
It's been an incredible journey though!

~~~
tresp
marco??

------
eire1130
* Unclear business model * "Complex tech stack" for a photo sharing site * Building a product against something that has been tried many times, and failed each time (crowdsourced brand identity) * Unpaid "internships" studying under other junior developers * Probably solving for a problem that doesn't exist (see point 3 above)

Man, where do I sign up!

~~~
mv4
I am surprised they aren't doing an ICO.

~~~
RepressedEmu
Oh boy, don't give them any ideas.

~~~
mv4
You're right. They will start paying devs with tokens.

------
mv4
According to Crunchbase, the CEO has a degree in Law/Business Economics.

He probably felt this hiring approach was a) legal, and b) economical.

~~~
astura
Interesting... it's actually listed as "Bachelor of Arts in Law, History, and
Culture"

Which sounds more like anthropology or something, USC defines as:

>This major is designed for students drawn to interdisciplinary study of legal
and cultural issues, as well as those who intend to pursue a law degree. It
offers students an interdisciplinary education in legal institutions,
languages and processes that are central to social, cultural and political
developments in the past and present, and play a critical role in shaping our
most basic concepts and categories of thought and identity. It combines
approaches from history, literature, philosophy, political theory, religion
and classical studies to explore the law's position at the nexus of society.
The major will help students develop the critical skills of reading, writing
and analysis crucial to both a liberal education and the study of law.
Students will gain theoretical and analytical perspectives on ethical,
political and social issues relevant to law as they explore specific legal
issues from a humanistic perspective.

And the requirements seem... um, not very comprehensive, to say the least...
There's only nine classes required for a _major!_ I just checked my college
transcript, because I have it handy, and I required eight classes just for my
_minor_. Is it actually common to have so few classes required for a _major_?

He also has

    
    
       Bachelor of Arts in French Literature
       Minor in Business Economics

~~~
jldugger
BAs tend to be a bit more lightweight in terms of major requirements, and
well, even among BAs I guess there's lighter and heavier major requirements.

~~~
astura
I think that's really _unreasonably_ "lightweight" as far as calling it a
"major," that's a minor level of education at the most. I really hope colleges
aren't routinely giving out "bachelors" degrees for such a small amount of
education.

------
mv4
Loved this little gem:

"keeps us from hiring engineers that end up being toxic to our long term goals
and just looking for a pay day"

~~~
erklik
That's why I look for a job so I can then be paid and eat food using that
money. Such clown asses.

~~~
mv4
You don't want to be a rockstar or a ninja?

~~~
astura
Pretty sure rockstars and ninjas still get paid. :)

~~~
djellybeans
Plus, ninjas DO work for selfish gain. As mercenaries, they only care about
pay day in the end, and they're not loyal to a faction.

~~~
mv4
Good point.

------
mattgibson
A week??

Our interview code test is to make a URL shortener (two endpoints: create and
redirect, use any tech you like). I'd never expect more than 2 hours max to be
spent on it. If you can't work out whether you want to employ someone based on
that (and discussion of it with the candidate) then you're probably not worth
working for.

~~~
volkk
I feel like two hours for something like this is still too little if you want
to actually see a ~relatively~ prod level app. The business logic is obviously
straight forward, but starting a new app, adding unit/integration tests,
(maybe proper logging), caching etc, and basically anything showing that
you're a competent dev will easily eat up 5 hours of your time in my opinion.
And if you don't expect anything close to a prod level system, then why ask to
build a system like this in the first place as opposed to some basic domain
logic functions vs a whole e2e system? Maybe I'm just a shitty/slow dev.

~~~
uncoder0
I think that's the test though and a perfect lead in to the interview. Build
the MVP. Then in the interview explain to me what it lacks and what you think
the next steps are to get it production ready... The task isn't build me a URL
shortener that's ready to take bit.ly's load.

~~~
volkk
well i never said anything about bitly's load, but the ability to write
readable tests is a skill in itself. same with caching strategies, etc

------
a13n
Yikes, the nerve. For a really junior applicant, getting a startup internship
on your resume can be a big deal for your career. You'd also learn a lot from
ex-Amazon engineers.

But realistically, I don't think the company would get much from an intern at
this level. If they want the intern to build the app, then they better be good
enough to demand payment.

Doesn't seem like the company will be successful with this approach.

~~~
jkingsbery
Just throwing this out there: you can learn a lot by working with _current_
Amazon engineers, and having Amazon on your resume can be a big deal for your
career. We train you on our stack, and as complex as it might be it will take
less than 3 months.

[https://us-amazon.icims.com/jobs/473568/sde-intern/job?mobil...](https://us-
amazon.icims.com/jobs/473568/sde-
intern/job?mobile=false&width=1245&height=1200&bga=true&needsRedirect=false&jan1offset=-300&jun1offset=-240)

~~~
a13n
And they pay you too!

------
codingdave
Even if this was a fairly paid gig, I'd be out of there the second someone
holds complexity up as a good thing. Doing more with a simpler stack has
always been my goal. After all, I'm not trying to impress people with how
complicated of a system I can design... I'm trying to deliver a product,
simply and effectively.

~~~
tdb7893
But how do you pad your resume with a simple stack?!

------
ianai
This sort of feels like an anecdotal example of a bubble. People are so sure
of big payoffs that a company can run this sort of job ad and seem to be taken
serious.

------
bousaid
On the CEO’s LinkedIn page: A. Ullmann varies between an idealist and a fool.

I guess he truly does fit that description.

~~~
ishi
You left out the rest, which is even cringier: ...Andrew can literally always
be found working or writing. By banging his head repeatedly against the walls
that are un-transparent advertising and unsustainable food, he plans to topple
them - no matter the ultimate concussive side effects. A steadfast optimist,
Andrew believes that with a little luck he will change the world. "Fingers
crossed," he says while looking defiantly into the distance.

~~~
samstave
Haha that’s hilarious.

I suggest everyone apply for the internship from HN and send them all our
resumes with all the mediocre things we have all helped build!

------
mythrwy
LOL. I'd ask they pay me for 3 months while I did no work just to make sure
you know... that they are solvent and going to be around.

After all it's best to avoid companies toxic to ones long term goals that only
care about how much work one produces.

------
dramm
The exploitive behavior here is sickening and deserved to be called out. As a
marketing person it's also amusing that they claim to want to connect images
for brands yet they use company logos apparently without permission all over
their web site. The sort of thing likely to irritate the very people in those
companies they want as customers.

e.g. [https://www.thebeeinc.com/all-pages](https://www.thebeeinc.com/all-
pages)

------
txmjs
I think this says it all (from the employer's website)...

    
    
      <meta name="keywords" content="Instafamous, Contacting brands, sharing, posting, get famous, make money, exposure, more followers">

~~~
hanspeter
Are we sure this entire company is not satire?

------
bcyn
I spit out my drink at "our very complex tech stack."

~~~
mv4
Their management team is mostly non-technical. So it's plausible they are
viewing their stack as incredibly complex.

------
ensiferum
After 3 months of training and work.. " sorry but we don't really feel your a
suitable match for our team" 3 months of work no pay thx and goodbye. I hope
nobody falls for this trap !

------
publicfig
Looks like they just took down their Facebook page due to negative reviews (as
I was viewing it, interestingly enough). Curious to see how they attempt
damage control.

[https://www.facebook.com/thebeeinc/](https://www.facebook.com/thebeeinc/)

~~~
K0nserv
They also took down their job postings on angle.co.

[https://imgur.com/a/CDxDb](https://imgur.com/a/CDxDb)

------
Nelkins
You know, this is pretty bad, but I'm also a little put off by the mob
mentality that I'm seeing (mostly in the Reddit comments). Following the link
in the original post, I see that their entire executive team is between 20 and
22 years old. What they did is definitely crummy and shady, but I also wonder
about the harassment that they're likely to be subjected to shortly. Will
their names forever be associated with this? Do they "deserve" it? Who
knows...I just hold some faint hope that if anyone chooses to reach out to Bee
they'll take their level of maturity into context and make this a teachable
moment.

------
baron816
This looks bad, but I've been through worse.

After a long, drawn out interview process, which involved a group interview
where four candidates were in the same room competitively trying to answer
random questions about JavaScript edge cases, I received an offer. $23k/year
in NYC, no equity, and a 1% share of profits.

I would've been pretty much the only engineer, so it's not like I would've
gotten any training or support. They also never told me what the product was.
I had to go find a notary to sign an NDA, but I tore that up when I got the
offer. I'm pretty sure the company never went anywhere.

~~~
djellybeans
They don't sound like great entrepreneurs just because they don't want to tell
you what the product is about before signing the NDA. Telling people about
your product is what gets people excited.

All these experiences make me curious as to where the salary _floors_ lie for
programmers, city-by-city. And excluding unpaid work, like the internship
discussed here.

------
tn_
Someone should build the anti-linkedin. You know where the co-founders of this
company would be added to that list.. and populates any relevant articles on
why they're not good people to work with.

~~~
p0nce
GlassDoor can serve that goal

------
basseq

      This position is paid after a 3 month training.
    

This attitude—along with unpaid internships, expectations of "side projects",
international experience, etc.—perpetuates a lack of diversity, particularly
in under-represented minorities. They're basically saying, "Unless you come
from money and can eat 3 months salary, we don't want you." It's pay-to-play
in the worst way.

Not to mention that no self-respecting person would work in an environment
that toxic.

------
jlebrech
I used find "jobs" like that freelancer.com, you don't work for those kind of
people you just steal their idea and do it for yourself.

~~~
erklik
His "idea" is some utter bullshit though. Either they are very very naive or
just fools. I am veering towards fools.

~~~
jlebrech
it's just instagram but worse

------
johnnyRose
This type of thing is a big reason why young companies with young co-founders
have such a bad rap.

------
mzzter
To me, as a software engineering student, the take home brief seems like a
reasonable one? It’s the uncompensated three month onboarding and training
that sticks out to me. I wonder if school credit could be negotiated for that.

~~~
erklik
Why? You are basically being asked to rebuild a competitor application for
them for free.

> It’s the uncompensated three month onboarding and training that sticks out
> to me.

This part is just cherry on top in all honesty. Its insane.

------
oblib
I have been given quite a few of these kinds of opportunities over the years.
Nice to see this one called out so well and get such a great response.

------
jlebrech
the best you can do is make a crappy app, and if they still hire you just no
show. eventually they'll go out of business.

~~~
s73ver_
Wouldn't the best you could do be to just walk away, and not bother with them?

~~~
jlebrech
If their test is challenging enough and interesting, just mash a project
together for fun and submit it.

------
asmdev
I had a similar experience with a company in Bangalore.[1]

I wish there were a law to prevent such exploitative hiring practices.

[1]: [https://github.com/surya-
soft/Interview/issues/2](https://github.com/surya-soft/Interview/issues/2)

~~~
jonandersense
What's "exploitative" about this? It's a simple coding project that would just
takes a few hours.

~~~
s73ver_
The "work" for "no pay" part. That's always exploitation, no matter how you
try and justify it.

~~~
jonandersense
Yes I agree, but this is not about working for 3 months unpaid, this is about
a coding interview: [https://github.com/surya-
soft/Interview/issues/2](https://github.com/surya-soft/Interview/issues/2)

This is a completely different company than the original post mentioned.

~~~
asmdev
A 4 hour coding assignment is half a day of work. I don't care if it is a toy
project and if there is no business value in the work. But a 4 hour coding
assignment is still half a day.

I may have to take a leave from my current work, take half a day off off my
current contract or spend a significant part of my weekend on this problem,
instead of with my family. I certainly expect to be paid for it.

~~~
asmdev
@jonandersense Honestly, I prefer doing a 1 day onsite interview. The equation
is different here. Here, the company is investing as much time in interviewing
me as I am putting in them. It sounds fair.

But doing half a day coding exercise even before any technical interviewer in
the company is ready to talk to me has a very imbalanced investment of time
from both sides. I invest 4 hours in the company when the company invests
none.

------
ixby96
"Erik the Greater, built the back end. He conquered the Django in a single
weekend."

From their blog: [https://blog.beeaweso.me/to-bee-or-
not-76f9b0f8b84f](https://blog.beeaweso.me/to-bee-or-not-76f9b0f8b84f)

~~~
stefantheard
The amount of cringe is literally unfathomable. Django huh, what happened to
the super complex tech stack? This company is a joke.

------
abandonliberty
Meanwhile I get bothered by some of the free work companies ask for in the
interview process.

------
aldof
Their website: [http://bee-usa.co/](http://bee-usa.co/)
[https://i.imgur.com/4q18GfX.png](https://i.imgur.com/4q18GfX.png)

~~~
wmblaettler
Actually, I'm pretty sure this is it:
[https://www.thebeeinc.com/](https://www.thebeeinc.com/)

------
pcglue
These guys are being roasted, and rightly so. But let's also cut them some
slack. Lord knows what kind of trouble I would have gotten into if the
Internet had been around in its present form when I was in high
school/college.

So there was no Internet or WWW when I was young. Instead, when I was 14 or
15, I was into the BBS scene. I found a file manager utility I liked that was
shareware. Being dumb and young, I took a hex editor to the executable and
modified the name/address of the author to my own, and re-uploaded the
utility, hoping people would send money to me instead. Nothing good or bad
came out of that, but I can imagine doing the equivalent these days would land
me in hot water.

------
rkho
I've always considered it a red flag when a "startup" seems to have no other
employees, no product, but somehow enough time to play company by giving four
C-level titles away.

------
rajacombinator
I've spoken with seemingly well connected and funded early stage startups that
have asked for the same. (Of course I passed.) This kind of thing is not that
uncommon sadly.

------
eclipxe
[https://blog.beeaweso.me/what-it-means-to-
bee-532968d91764](https://blog.beeaweso.me/what-it-means-to-bee-532968d91764)

~~~
jaymzcampbell
> "Our mission is to create justice in an unjust world."

That whole page is cringeworthy hyperbole but in the context of what has blown
them up on HN this is just hilarious now.

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rdiddly
On the plus side, at the end of that unpaid 3 months, you'll have the ability
to work "anywhere in the world."

Hey wait a minute, don't I have that _now_?

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joeblau
I had to do this for my current job. For me it the task was about 4 hours of
work and not a big deal. The main caveat is that I was also in the process of
my current work project being discontinued. That means I had 4 months to
basically do whatever I want while still collecting my salary so spec work
wasn't a problem for me. If you have a job, family and other obligations
outside of work, completing a project like this is extremely challenging.

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brutus1213
Are there no laws against this stuff?

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astura
There are indeed laws against this stuff.

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muzani
Playing devil's advocate here, it's possible they think they're doing the
intern a favor by teaching them, as opposed to an educational institution
where they have to pay to learn. The intern is not expected to get work done.

~~~
erklik
Yet the project they are asking to be developed is literally their core app.

Its more like getting your own application rebuilt for free.

