
Leaving the Nest - shawndumas
https://nest.com/blog/2016/06/03/leaving-the-nest/
======
rdtsc
From
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11105510](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11105510)

\---

outside1234 109 days ago

I worked there. It was literally the worst experience of my career - and I
have worked at all of the hardest charging blue chips and two successful
startups - so it is not about high expectations - but abuse. I still wake up
with something like PTSD occasionally from getting yelled at and bullied by
Tony Fadell almost literally every day while I was there.

I have a distance from it now -- and a way better job. It made me realize that
the culture of a place is really what makes it and that "how" you get results
really matter. I bought into the Apple pedigree of the place without
understanding that the way Tony got there was through essentially wrecking
other people's lives.

I have no idea why Google bought this. Tony literally stood up at an all-hands
after the Alphabet thing and said "Fuck being Googley" (direct quote).

Frankly, if I could offer Larry Page once piece of advice it would be to take
Tony out front of TGIF and fire him publicly -- all of this comes from Tony.
Matt is just his hatchet man and fake cofounder.

There are a lot of great people at Nest and they deserve a better leader.

\---

~~~
outside1234
Kudos to Larry for recognizing it was time to do the right thing and remove
Tony. In this day and age, that sort of courage is pretty rare.

Do no evil indeed.

~~~
danudey
Arguably, the time to do the right thing was years ago, when Tony was abusing
his employees and Nest was making no money other than what Dropcam was making
(meaning that buying Dropcam instead of Nest would have made vastly more
sense).

~~~
outside1234
Yes, but hindsight is 20/20\. The only decisions you can make are the ones in
front of you - and Larry made the right one here.

------
Analemma_
I already knew that Fadell was a jerk, but apparently he's delusional as well.
Via [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-03/flying-
goo...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-03/flying-google-s-
nest-fadell-defends-his-record-and-methods):

"I don’t know why I feel this way, but between working closely with Bill
Campbell, working closely with Steve Jobs and watching a lot of my mentors
pass on, unfortunately, I feel like I bear this responsibility now. There’s a
few of us who are keepers of that knowledge. It’s almost our responsibility to
be able to continue that way of thinking, that way of working. Expect
excellence, respect excellence, drive hard, change things, don’t accept the
status quo, push yourself, push the people on your team harder than they could
ever imagine, and they will do more than they could have ever imagined."

You gotta love these incompetent execs, who have taken nothing away from Steve
Jobs' legacy except "be an asshole". Tony, listen: Steve Jobs succeeded _in
spite of_ being a massive douche, because he was a genius who essentially
invented new product categories, and made them work really really well. You,
on the other hand, stuck networking interfaces in common household appliances,
usually making them worse. Your psychopathic treatment of your employees gains
you nothing in that case.

~~~
762236
Jeez, Bill Campbell taught people to be nice! He has stories of sending
abusive execs home to calm down.

~~~
hawkice
Abusive? Maybe, sending fired up execs home. Or an exec who had stepped over
the line. But abusive, as in, a continuous process currently in motion?
Sending them home and letting them come back the next day is not great, and
sometimes a terrible business decision on par with letting aggressive sexual
harassers come back the next day.

Signed, Someone who has had a boss throw chairs at people

~~~
lucisferre
Microsoft?

~~~
hawkice
I'll be putting all guesses into my never_work_here.txt file and then I'll
respond to them all at once.

------
manav
For a company whose primary product is/was the Nest Thermostat, I've found
they have been terrible at innovation and keeping up with competition. The
product has been virtually unchanged for the last 3-4 years. What have they
been up to?

I switched to an Ecobee3 system and found it was far superior in many ways.
Alexa integration, remote sensors (for actual temperature measurements in
rooms), easier install and compatibility if you don't have power going to
thermostat, better wifi, touchscreen interface.

With Google Home coming I wonder what this means for Nest. Maybe it will be
fully absorbed into Google?

~~~
zippergz
This is interesting. I have had Nest thermostats for several years, and
overall I think they're great, but I have definitely felt the need for remote
sensors (our upstairs thermostat in particular is in a really bad spot). A
couple of months ago I seriously considered getting an Ecobee, but I read a
bunch of reviews that complained of stuff like unresponsive touchscreen, bad
UI, etc. The main thing I love about the Nest is that the UX is very simple,
and works well. Anyone in the house can use it without instructions, and it
feels like a thermostat, not a slow Android device or something.

Did you find those to not be issues? Definitely most of the reviews were good,
so maybe it's just isolated people having problems. But I couldn't tell if it
was that, or more that people either aren't as picky about UX as I am, or they
didn't have another point of comparison... I'm very open to re-considering
them if someone can convince me this stuff is a non-issue, because the remote
sensor would certainly make our system work better.

~~~
dmritard96
should check us out - got your remote sensors covered :)
[https://flair.co/products/puck](https://flair.co/products/puck)

~~~
illumin8
Looks cool, but nowhere on your product page does it say it's compatible with
Nest.

~~~
dmritard96
Its on the FAQ but not the product page. Working through the official works
with nest stuff behind the scenes.

------
ArmandGrillet
"We should all be disrupters!": I really don't like reading bullshit like this
in the middle of a blog post. Anyway, I hope this announcement means that Nest
employees will have a better work-life balance, it looked pretty terrible from
the recent articles posted on HN.

~~~
jaawn
I have been cringing every time I see/hear the word "disrupt" (in its various
forms) for a couple years now. In pretty much all cases, the more often a
given person uses that word, the more vapid I come to think they are.

~~~
yoodenvranx
"disrupt" is for startups/VC what "beautiful" is for Javascript/CSS
frameworks.

~~~
trhway
and "delightful" for user experience

~~~
foolfoolz
"elegant" for libraries

~~~
api
Delightfully beautiful elegant disruption.

------
marme
I love that he put "leaving the next" in quotes. He was leading that company
down the drain and got fired, they just dont want to make it look that way.
They have had so much bad press the past year, from nest employees complaining
of a hostile work environment to customers complaining about products being
intentionally bricked. This news is shocking only in that it took this long to
happen

~~~
atom-morgan
I would lol at someone who fired me expecting me to say it this way. If you
fire me I have no further obligation to your doublespeak.

~~~
rdtsc
You don't say it for them. You say it for yourself. You have nothing to gain
by going around telling everyone you've been fired.

~~~
atom-morgan
Honesty. Transparency. Accepting your mistakes and failures.

~~~
scrollaway
All qualities Tony Fadell is known for. Right?

------
Fricken
Okay, so Fadell is out, following reports that Nest is a mess.

Verily, the life sciences arm has similar CEO problems:
[https://www.statnews.com/2016/03/28/google-life-sciences-
exo...](https://www.statnews.com/2016/03/28/google-life-sciences-exodus/)

Boston Dynamics and Schaft are being sold off, and who knows if the rest of
Rubin's robot companies are on the auction block.

And while carmakers, rideshare companies and Autonomous AI companies are all
forming alliances in varying capacities, Alphabet's self driving car project
dance card remains conspicuously empty.

Things at Alphabet are not looking good.

~~~
beambot
> And while carmakers, rideshare companies and Autonomous AI companies are all
> forming alliances in varying capacities, Alphabet's self driving car project
> dance card remains conspicuously empty.

Except for the Ford partnership [1] and a strategic investment in Uber [2].

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/business/ford-and-
google-t...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/business/ford-and-google-team-
up-tosupport-driverless-cars.html)

[2] [http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/22/google-ventures-
puts-258m-i...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/22/google-ventures-
puts-258m-into-uber-its-largest-deal-ever/)

~~~
Fricken
Your first link refers to the Self-driving Coalition for Safer Streets which
also includes Volvo, Uber and Lyft, and it's just a lobby group.

The second link, about Google Ventures investment in Uber is unrelated to the
self driving car program. Uber has, in the meantime, acquired a substantial
portion of the Carnegie Mellon robotics department [1] and has siphoned off
~100 engineers from Bing Maps [2], which to me implies that for whatever
reason Uber wants to be as independent from Google as possible.

To graduate from a science project to a revenue generating business, Google
needs a major manufacturing partnership, and while they've been seeking such a
partnership for years now, no formal announcement has been made beyond a deal
with FCA to outfit 100 Pacifica minivans with autonomous sensors. It was
emphasized that Alphabet and FCA have no plans extending beyond those 100
vehicles [3].

[1][http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-uber-a-friend-or-foe-of-
carne...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-uber-a-friend-or-foe-of-carnegie-
mellon-in-robotics-1433084582)

[2] [http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/29/uber-acquires-part-of-
bings...](http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/29/uber-acquires-part-of-bings-
mapping-assets-will-absorb-around-100-microsoft-employees/)

[3] [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-selfdriving-
idUSKCN...](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-selfdriving-
idUSKCN0YA2ZP)

------
pfarnsworth
Wow. I honestly never thought this would happen. Hopefully this means that the
change in culture at Nest is real, and we can expect better innovation going
forward. As a heavy Nest customer (thermostat, 2 protects and 5 cameras), I've
been sorely disappointed over the last 2 years, and hopefully this means that
my investment in their technology isn't for naught.

~~~
kevan
>I've been sorely disappointed over the last 2 years

I bought a thermostat about a year ago and I've been disappointed too. The
marketing I read and a couple people I knew that worked there implied that new
features were in the pipeline but since I've installed it I haven't seen a
single substantive improvement in the experience.

~~~
zippergz
What changes are you hoping for in the experience? I think my Nest thermostats
work great, and frankly I'd rather that they not muck with that in the name of
"improvement." It's basically an appliance, and part of my house, and regular
software changes would be a real annoyance (other than fixing bugs, of
course). I'd rather they spend their energy on creating new products than on
changing the already (IMHO) solid experience on the existing ones.

~~~
rconti
Stop dropping off the network randomly. They blame it on "crappy wifi vendors"
not supporting 802.11 power save mode properly but I have it on word from
support that Meraki is fully 802.11 compliant.

Would be nice to have optional different displays too. Seems like a silly
thing, I know, but it would be nice if I could just setup the 'normal' display
to show outside temp without having to go to the menu.

------
RankingMember
From what I've read of this guy, this change is long overdue and hopefully a
sign of better things to come (culture-wise and product-wise) at Nest.

------
jusben1369
That awkward balancing act they do between "I'm gone but don't be too scared
I'm still here but really I'm gone" I mean this is like a sentence tennis
match:

```Although this news may feel sudden to some, this transition has been in
progress since late last year and while I won’t be present day to day at Nest,
I’ll remain involved in my new capacity as an advisor to Alphabet and Larry
Page. This will give me the time and flexibility to pursue new opportunities
to create and disrupt other industries – and to support others who want to do
the same – just as we’ve done at Nest. We should all be disrupters!

I will miss this company and my Nest family (although I’ll be around to
provide advice and guidance and help the team with the transition), but I am
excited about what’s coming next, both for Nest and for me.```

------
pboutros
Is Marwan Fawaz also lebanese-american? Tony Fadell is, and Marwan's LinkedIn
looks like he went to a high school in Lebanon. What are the odds!

[https://www.linkedin.com/in/marwanfawaz](https://www.linkedin.com/in/marwanfawaz)

~~~
dguaraglia
Not sure why you are being down voted, unless people are reading some kind of
undertone I'm not seeing.

~~~
pboutros
I hope they aren't - I'm american/lebanese as well, hence noticing.

------
Geekette
I wonder if this has to do with the internal problems at Nest[1][2].

[1][http://www.businessinsider.com/whats-going-on-at-
nest-2016-2](http://www.businessinsider.com/whats-going-on-at-nest-2016-2)

[2][https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11105510](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11105510)

~~~
pkaye
I believe there was a 2 year vesting on stock or bonuses at Next. They got
acquired around early 2014 so I'm sure that has something to do with it. I
expect a whole bunch of others may leave depending on how the new CEO is.

------
iqonik
I was at work the other day when I got a push notification that there was
smoke upstairs from Nest protect. I left work immediately and arrived home to
the smell of burning, an incense plug had been left in and was melting.

Nest saved me, the ROI for me is priceless. Thanks Tony, good luck in your
next venture - learn from your mistakes.

------
c-slice
He will remain as an "advisor" to Alphabet. That's an honorary position if
I've ever heard of one.

~~~
RankingMember
Yep, definitely looks like a face-saving maneuver.

    
    
      <Tony> "Hey Lar I can at least call you every now and then still, right?"
      <Larry> "uh ok".
      

_adds "Senior Advisor to Alphabet/Google" to LinkedIn profile_

~~~
rdtsc
Well it has the word _Senior_ in it, so it seems like an important position /s

------
paul
I wonder when Google will do a writedown on this deal? $3.2B seems like a lot
to pay for a thermostat company.

~~~
jamra
Especially considering that their product is not at the forefront of smart
thermostats. The learning capability is harmful if you have kids or live in
colder climates. Nest works poorly with home automation solutions as well.
Dropcam was a good product that didn't change since they were bought out. I am
looking into other thermostats and I can't wait to switch.

It seems to me that Google caught a ride on the Nest hype train.

~~~
hkmurakami
Out of academic curiosity, which product(s) is considered to be at the
forefront of smart thermostats?

~~~
karmicthreat
Probably depends on what you need the thermostat for. A home has a very
different set of requirements than say the Burj Khalifa. And a warehouse or
apartment complex might have their own very specialized requirements.

That said Honeywell has products that cover most of those bases at least
acceptably. If you just want something for your house though EcoBee seems to
be the device to get.

------
aboodman
I interviewed at Dropcam right before it was acquired, and it was clear that
it was an amazing place. The team there was so solid.

I didn't realize until recently, but am not surprised to learn, that the
people at Dropcam went on to found several interesting startups:

    
    
      - https://eero.com/
      - https://www.lily.camera/
      - https://claralabs.com/

------
f_allwein
previous (Feb) discussion about "Troubles at Nest":
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11105510](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11105510)

------
dreamcompiler
Tony and Elizabeth Holmes should team up to create a wifi-enabled device that
regulates blood sugar for diabetics. It can be hidden in the collar of your
turtleneck. And when it loses connectivity or misreads your glucose level, you
get to meet Steve Jobs.

------
DonHopkins
Just incredible: he used the word "journey" un-ironically.

[http://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/](http://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/)

------
justinv
Marwan Fawaz as new CEO. Anyone know much about him?

~~~
shawndumas
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/marwanfawaz](https://www.linkedin.com/in/marwanfawaz)

~~~
gordon_freeman
I think this should not be downvoted as people can learn a lot about someone's
professional career by skimming through their LinkedIn profile.

------
dclowd9901
Man what I wouldn't pay to see some memes from the internal Google meme host
right now.

~~~
shawndumas
As a happy Nester it's been sad to see...

~~~
dclowd9901
As a former sad nester, I think this news is going to make your life much
better.

------
meerita
I have never used a product like Nest. What is it like for those who are used
to? I live in Barcelona and I never seen anyone using a product like that.

~~~
uptown
It's a thermostat with a digital display, and some learning capabilities that
figure out how you usually manually adjust the temperatures based on your
weekly routine. It can also detect when you're home or not, and adjust
accordingly. You can also use your phone to adjust the temperature remotely.
The idea is it'll dial down your energy usage better through intelligent
management of your heating and cooling systems and a slick interface.

~~~
Ressuder
I think that what gets confusing for a lot of us from Europe is taht we don't
generally have temperature control of our homes like that. There might be some
kind of radiators for heating, but that's generally it.

------
matt_wulfeck
> This will give me the time and flexibility to pursue new opportunities to
> create and disrupt other industries – and to support others who want to do
> the same – just as we’ve done at Nest. We should all be disrupters!

It sounds to me like he's done a terrific job disrupting people's lives and
careers. I find more and more than people who speak like this are interested
in fulfilling their narrow goals at the cost of everything and everyone around
them. After a few years and the novelty of the invention wears off it just
looks petty.

------
hiven
Glad to see him go based on what I have read here and elsewhere.

------
supergeek133
Wow. I think he and Google keep figuring out.. hardware is well.. hard!

I mean they started a revolution in Smart Thermostats (they're also now the
reason people are willing to pay $200+ for a thermostat).

They had a good innovation, found a market at the right time, got bought, and
realized sustaining that type of business isn't easy.

------
vincefutr23
Pushed from the nest?

~~~
newjersey
Regardless of the semantics, one can only hope the change is for the better.
Nest can't lose much goodwill at this point.

Previously, on HN
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11435245](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11435245)

------
tomphoolery
this is why we need an open-source thermostat

------
max_
Imagine if Tony had a HN account and was actualy reading these cmments. How
would he feel?

------
yuhong
I wonder if the fact that he left a day after a lawsuit was filed was not a
coincidence: [https://www.theinformation.com/former-nest-employee-takes-
ai...](https://www.theinformation.com/former-nest-employee-takes-aim-at-
googles-media-policy)

------
exstudent2
Does anyone know of a good alternative to Nest products? I've never liked
their marketing and this blog post doesn't do much to alleviate that feeling
(even though he's on the way out, the tone remains).

~~~
varikin
If you are looking for a thermostat, I have heard good things about the
Ecobee3. It can have several remote sensors around house, integrates with
Smartthings and maybe just zigbee/zwave in general. I only got the Nest
because of a great deal from a family member with an extra one. The downside
is that is can be trickier to wire up. If you furnace is older, you may have
to run an extra wire.

~~~
andykellr
After 2 homes with Nest, I decided to try an Ecobee last December. I prefer
the Ecobee.

1) Vacations: with the Ecobee, tell it when you'll be away (date/time range)
and it will go into vacation mode. I travel often and I can add multiple
vacations in advance. Not a complex feature and surprising Nest doesn't have
this. With the Nest I have to keep tweaking my Away mode temps to ensure that
it warms up when I return and doesn't just switch back to Away and stop
heating (it can take hours to go from 50=>70 when its 15 outside).

2) Learning with the Nest was always wrong for me because I have an irregular
schedule so I turned that off. For me, that was originally an appeal of the
Nest.

3) Ecobee multi-room sensors are awesome. Unfortunately I've learned that my
office is always 10 degrees warmer/cooler in summer/winter.

4) Ecobee is HomeKit/Siri compatible which I haven't really used much.

I installed the Ecobee myself and had to install the little box on my furnace
to provide power. Not ideal, but easy.

------
0xADADA
death knell

