
Ask HN: How do you break free from your 9 to 5? - navdeep
When you have a family with kids you cannot risk letting go of the only source of income so you try to work on projects on the side. Is that good enough for achieving success and financial freedom?
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apowell
Don't be wrapped up in creating the next Paypal. A very small business can be
a big thing for you and your family. Once you've created a healthy income from
full-time self-employment, then you can start changing the world.

I've known from an early age that I wanted to work for myself, and I've
structured my life to make that possible. I've always had side projects going
- through high school, college, and two full-time jobs.

When the side projects grew profitable enough and we had socked away enough
money, I quit my job to work on my business full-time. My wife was about
twelve weeks pregnant when I gave my notice.

That was a bit over a year ago, and I haven't looked back. I'm financially
conservative, so I probably waited longer than others in my shoes would have.
I had enough income to support a basic lifestyle (I call it "pork-chop
profitability"), and if the income dried up we had enough savings for a couple
years. It was a high bar, but with a baby on the way I didn't want to be
reckless.

Start working on small, attainable side projects with immediate revenue
potential. Pick two targets: self-employed income and non-retirement savings.
When you hit both targets, it's time to go full-time. And most importantly,
make sure your family supports you and understands your ambition.

Best of luck.

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larrik
Well, what's wrong with your 9 to 5? You can try finding a higher paying or
more fulfilling 9 to 5, if that's the problem (that's what I did).

I watched a rather regular guy launch a non-tech company in the middle of a
divorce with primary custody of two very young kids. That company hit 5
million a year in just a few years after launching. Seriously. He just thought
his current employer sucked and that he could do better, and he did.

Have I done anything like that? No. But my iPhone apps are making me enough
money that it's like having an extra part time job. I started in August, with
only a maximum of about 2 hours a night to work on them.

You need to think small. Really small. You need to actually finish those
projects.

~~~
navdeep
I do have a really good job that pays the bill and leave enough money to lead
a happy life with my family. But this is not what any entrepreneur would want.
I want to start a tech company of my own that would be the ticket to my
financial freedom. I myself have created two Iphone apps and two facebook
apps, but to start something meaningful and more rewarding would definitely
take a lot more effort which a day job does not allow. It seems like I am an
entrepreneur that has to work with one hand as the other hand is ties down in
other responsibilities and formalities. Can I really create the next PayPal in
given circumstances, I doubt it but I can keep on trying till one day I
realize it would have been better if I wouldn't have tried as I should have
realized that success was impossible for me.

~~~
larrik
I'm afraid my situation isn't so different.

You could consider switching to contracting. If you are good, you can squeeze
the same income into a shorter work week. Haven't done it myself, though.

~~~
navdeep
I am a contractor, am incorporated and have a fortune 100 company as my
client. I work 8 hours a day for them maintaining their intranet and extra net
applications. It is fairly obvious to me that I have hit a roadblock as there
is no way for me to climb the ladder without having my own business at this
point. I have been striving day and night to achieve that very goal, getting 4
hours of sleep at nights but I want an honest opinion from HN, do you really
think people like me can achieve success? If I was still in college I could
have locked myself up in a basement for weeks and created the next AI browser
but I do not have that luxury. So I try to squeeze out three to four hours
every day to work on my projects and launch them. This is not good enough as
the market this day is moving really fast with dozens of hot startups
springing up daily.

~~~
weaksauce
What about taking on an employee to handle (some of?) the contract stuff? Your
revenue stays the same but costs go up by one employee. You then have some
time to work on your other projects.

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dazzla
I'm in the same situation (wife, kid, mortgage, etc). I've been working on
escaping from the 9 to 5 for at least 5 years trying various different things.
I have always battled with the thought that if I could only work on this full
time... I don't live in Silicon Valley either. I do get very disheartened but
overall I keep motivated and going. I do think of all of this as my education.
Each project I try builds on the last even if indirectly.

I now have a side project that is growing pretty consistently. It took me at
least a year to realize that this could really be something. Over that time
there have been periods where I have given up and not put much time into it.
So far I've always come back. I can now look back and see that the months I
gave up revenue stagnated. I can also clearly see what I did that increases
revenue. I can also see that if I keep working at the same rate (some evenings
and some weekends) and revenue increases at the same rate that it should grow
into something that will replace the 9 to 5 in the near future. That is
particularly exciting to me as I want a business without the stress,
complications and long hours. I now look forward to not working full time on
it.

So keep at it. Something your working on now maybe the solution. It doesn't
have to be big and exciting. There's plenty of people trying the same. It's
not easy for sure but certainly doable.

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jacquesm
Cut your costs to begin with to increase your chances of success, save what
you can and start with a concrete goal in mind, say $50 per month increase for
the next 6 months, then when you've achieved that goal (hopefully in 6
months!) think about what you've found and if there are ways to scale it.

Projects 'on the side' is renting yourself out hour by hour, it does not scale
very well but if a side project is sold as licensed software (niche software
more or less by definition) you could make out very well and if someone wants
to license your source code instead of the final product you could make a big
chunk in one go.

It's quite difficult to say what you can achieve without having a good grip on
your situation and your skills but if I had to start over again from a day job
I would do something like that.

~~~
navdeep
My Goal has always been to provide software as a service. I started working on
one such product named it care to share. The product always you to share your
purchases on facebook and make affiliate earnings from any purchases made by
your friends. Project didn't sit well with big companies as they were not
willing to change their marketing campaigns, although it was obvious that
their sales would go up. As I didn't get sign ups from any big businesses I
had to leave the working prototype in sandbox and start on my new app. This
time I partnered up with PayPal to allow users to create wishes and share with
their Social circle. Contributions can be made through PayPal. Very
interactive and useful app. Tried to get PayPal to market the app to its users
as users were hesitating creating a new PayPal account. PayPal ignored my 3 of
my email requests. So I guess this project will go down as a failure as well.

~~~
apowell
Perhaps those are good ideas, but they don't sound right for you right now.
Building a network-effect business that requires buy-in from Paypal and/or
national brands? I can't think of much that's tougher or more speculative.

You should consider creating something that individuals or small businesses
will pay for because it scratches an itch. I pay for several services like
that each month -- Blinksale, Springloops, AuthorityLabs, Chargify,
WebsitePulse, Postmark, and Basecamp. (But don't limit yourself to tools for
developers -- there are many industries with un-scratched itches.)

~~~
navdeep
Thanks for the advice. So target the niches rather than fortune 100. That
sounds like a more promising way to get your foot in the door. You are right
it is really tough getting noticed by the bigger players I guess my approach
should be to squeeze in with the smaller ones first.

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scottcha
1\. Try to switch to work from home. 2\. Get more efficient at your day job.
3\. Slip in more moonlighting time once you get more efficient but don't let
your 9-5 company raise expectations.

Essentially the short version of 4-hour workweek.

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booduh
I was going to say just get up and leave, until I saw that you had dependents.

If you leave and the pain of going it alone is more than you experienced at
your 9-5, and you aren't feeling fulfilled, then you have gained a very
valuable bit of insight. Same deal if you have the time of your life.

Only way to know is to just do it.

But as you have kids-- its not about you as much anymore.

Get smarter about your job, become indispensable, hold your nose and kiss up
without shame, build your cushion, then jet.

You could also spend the time you have working on the idea and crafting a
(tested) vision, then outsource the actual creation of the product with funds
from your 9-5.

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tmugavero
Find a solid few people to work with and split the load toward a greater goal.
When one of you isn't working on your project, another one will be. Go to
meetups and start networking every way possible. With such little time, you'll
need resources and catalysts in the form of smart, passionate people. These
are hard to find, but they are out there. Most importantly _do not_ get
discouraged. It might take a little longer, but dreams are too important to
let go, and you'll be 90 years old thinking "What if?".

~~~
navdeep
This is good advice. Be smart, make other smart people work for you. I guess
this all depends on circumstances. What if I don't have smart people around
me, I don't reside in Silicon Valley where you have budding entrepreneurs but
a desolate city of Toronto where everyone wants a more secure Job and doesn't
want to risk much. Should I move to where smart people are? I also held the
view that if there is a will you can really create a successful business
yourself . All you need is access to a computer and some programming
resources. But in this day and age the emphasis is not on idea or the
execution but how much money you can pump into a business for it's marketing.

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rick888
yes, but it makes it that much more difficult. You also need to stay more
focused because you don't have that much time during the day.

~~~
navdeep
Absolutely, I only get max three hours to work on my side projects in a day
and there is no way I can increase that time span without affecting my day
job. It gets really hard to balance both along with family. I guess once you
are stuck in this cycle chances of starting a successful business become slim.

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mapster
be thankful for what you have. meditate on that. bootstrap into profitability.
be conservative and have at least 6 months of increasing profitability before
considering quitting. As you said yourself, your not 21 living with Mom and
Dad, so you should moonlight the project and be prudent. Good luck!

------
staunch
Build enough traction on a project that a) It generates enough income. 2)
Someone will invest in it.

Then jump ship.

------
navdeep
It seems like success itself is more a matter of circumstances rather than
innovation and persistence.

~~~
andrewtbham
you should read the habits of highly effective people... the first habit, in
particular, asserts that successful people don't focus on their circumstances,
but rather on what they can influence.

