
Hong Kong protests: President Xi warns of 'bodies smashed' - headalgorithm
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50035229
======
dwohnitmok
This feels like "we will bury you"
([https://books.google.com/books?id=ETQpY-32DysC&pg=PA238&dq="...](https://books.google.com/books?id=ETQpY-32DysC&pg=PA238&dq="we+shall+outlive+you"&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rBmUU5mPIevJsQSz64LADg&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q="we%20shall%20outlive%20you"&f=false))
all over again.

The original is, as pointed out elsewhere,
任何人企图在中国任何地区搞分裂，结果只能是粉身碎骨；任何支持分裂中国的外部势力只能被中国人民视为痴心妄想.
[http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2019-10/13/c_1125099224.ht...](http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2019-10/13/c_1125099224.htm)

I offer an alternative translation below since I find the BBC's translation
overly literal and cherry-picked for a punchy headline, although there are
certainly overtones of violence in the original idiom chosen. I've used the
wheel to emphasize that the idiom ultimately is a brutal one, but not
necessarily a literal one.

For anyone who tries to mess around with separatism in any part of China, the
only possible outcome is that they are broken upon the wheel. Any external
forces which support the fracturing of China can only be seen by the Chinese
people as delusional.

------
lgvln
I'm quite sure the phrase or idiom used by Xi is ”粉身碎骨“, which can be
interpreted figuratively or literally.

Funny how it reminds me exactly of the protesters crushed by the tanks at the
Tiananmian Incident.

~~~
throwaway_bad
I am really disappointed in BBC's reporting here. They chose to interpret a
idiom in a literal way just to make a maximally controversial headline.

Even in wuxia novels where I see this phrase used the most, the phrase is
never used literally (And in those fictional universes turning people into
powder is actually possible). If you choose to translate chinese literally you
can make anyone sound insane.

Focus on the intent. He is very much saying he will destroy those people. But
not necessarily by crushing bones.

~~~
sachdevap
Ah, I see. That makes it so much better. I am glad he'll only destroy them
without crushing their bones.

~~~
throwaway_bad
I am not a native english speaker so I don't know if you're trying to take my
words literally too.

It's just conveying an _intensity_ , not any specific action. Just like how
"wiping the floor" with someone doesn't mean you're going to beat someone
unconscious and use their body as a literal mop. That would warrant
immediately calling the police or justifiable homicide in self-defense. That's
obviously an insane way to interpret that phrase but that's what I am seeing
here.

It's still a menacing threat but no chinese person is interpreting it as tanks
being imminent (like how many english speakers would interpret the threat of
literal crushed bones). If tanks do roll in, it is an escalation of the
current situation but it's nowhere close to what is being said here.

------
thiagoharry
In Equador pacific protesters are being repressed by the government,
protesters are being shoot by snipers and nobody cares. Geopolitical interests
are a very crazy thing.

~~~
elliekelly
> Geopolitical interests are a very crazy thing.

Ecuador has been eye-opening for me from a personalized-news perspective. I
spent a few months in Ecuador working on a project with an NGO so I have many
friends in Quito and a handful in Guayaquil. From the moment the IMF-related
austerity measures were announced it was all over my newsfeed and I've been
getting "recommend" alerts about the situation from Apple News and Reddit.

I assumed it was a major international story. A few days after the protests
started I mentioned them in conversation to a friend at Reuters who only had a
vague idea of the situation. I couldn't believe it. He's an international news
junkie. Looking at my phone, the protests are (were? hopefully) a major story
but looking at his you wouldn't even really know it was happening.

~~~
baq
welcome to the bubble. yours is different that most of everybody else in the
west.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble)

------
beloch
Here's a sobering fact: HK's GDP was about 14% of China's GDP in 2000. Now
it's about 2.4%. This is mainly due to growth in mainland China.

HK is no longer China's golden goose, which is probably why China started this
mess to begin with. From their viewpoint, HK's British hybrid law system is no
longer worth putting up with. There's a very realistic possibility that China
is going to crush resistance in HK by any means necessary. Keeping HK's
economy and productivity intact probably aren't viewed to be important, but
avoiding sanctions that would impact the entire country likely is.

This really is a conflict in which the threat of economic sanctions might
actually save lives, provided they're believable.

~~~
refurb
_There 's a very realistic possibility that China is going to crush resistance
in HK by any means necessary._

I keep waiting for the shoe to drop.

China, by her own standards, has been very soft on the protests so far. China
is much more concerned with its global image than back during the Tiananmen
Square protests.

But if anyone should think this won’t end similarly, they’d be fooling
themselves.

I’d put lower odds on a sudden violent crack down than on a slow, methodical
process of arresting leaders and slowly ratcheting up the pressure on
protestors.

As sad as it might seem, the CCP will come out on top in the end.

~~~
csomar
> China, by her own standards, has been very soft on the protests so far.
> China is much more concerned with its global image than back during the
> Tiananmen Square protests.

Surprisingly, things in this digital age are different and you can thank
social media for that. If we didn't hav the Internet and live-broadcasting,
the Hong Konguese are nothing but history now.

~~~
refurb
I think it’s also China’s awareness (more so than in the 1980’s) of the cost
of being ostracized internationally.

Being seen as a bloody dictatorship makes doing business much harder.

~~~
goatinaboat
_Being seen as a bloody dictatorship makes doing business much harder_

But you can watch as much basketball as you want, and wear fashionable
sneakers, and of course call your buddies in the Party over for a party on
your smartphones “proudly designed in California”.

Everyone already knows about Tibet, the Uighurs and so on. Everyone. And yet
they still do business there unashamedly.

~~~
refurb
It’s a matter of grade.

If China murdered thousands of protestors in Hong Kong, I would imagine there
would be a lot of shaming of companies doing business with them.

They’ll still be companies who skirt public opinion, but I can imagine many
would be affected.

The other impact could be government sanctions against China. Companies
wouldn’t have much of an option then.

------
Pigo
What does the endgame look like here? Does anyone have a realistic prediction?

I root for these people because I can just begin to imagine my city being
taken over by a country that would just disappear me if I become inconvenient.
But does it really have to come to a Braveheart style conclusion?

~~~
save_ferris
Unlikely, as such an ending would probably have catastrophic consequences for
Chinese trade and international relations.

Tiananmen Square set Chinese diplomatic relations back well over a decade, and
with their economy showing signs of a possible slowdown, they’re particularly
conscious of the consequences that any militaristic response would have.

~~~
lm28469
> for Chinese trade and international relations.

It's a full blown military state guilty of several crimes against humanity, we
have proof of muslim detention camps, sterilisation campaigns, destruction of
churches, &c... doesn't look like anyone care as long as they build iphones
and cpus. I doubt HK would be the last straw.

------
tus88
> This is widely seen as an unlikely scenario because of the serious
> consequences.

Which are what exactly?

~~~
NeedMoreTea
The token 12-18 month international boycott and sanctions that came after
Tiananmen. America was most reluctant and one of the first to cave back to
business as usual.

Now that we're seeing some of the downsides of globalisation, _perhaps_ the
world community could hold its nerve longer. Or perhaps not as that's not a
profit making stance.

~~~
cbames89
It could provide the motive to begin a(an even more?) massive automation push
within the U.S. That could have long-term negative consequences for China.

~~~
vymague
I don’t know how it is in the US. But Kuka is at least owned by China, iirc.

~~~
mpfundstein
I still hate the german government for allowing that to happen

~~~
tekkk
It's no fun seeing your country's best companies being snatched up by Chinese
companies, which your country's companies can't even consider buying. Same
with Supercell although it went with Softbank as intermediary buyer. Oh well.
At least they don't funnel their profits with tax schemes. But I guess it's
hard to resist temptation of selling when they come with truckloads of money.
We are all humans after all.

------
Merrill
Maybe Xi had Taiwan in mind, not Hong Kong. Taiwan is very important to China.

~~~
dmm
Because TSMC Taiwan is very important to the whole world.

------
danielneri
Can anybody recommend good reading to catch up on the protests or history of
Hong Kong vs. the mainland?

~~~
hkmaxpro
ABC News: Inside the city caught between a British past and a Chinese future
(with pretty pictures, videos & maps)

[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-13/hong-kong-protests-
br...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-13/hong-kong-protests-british-
history-chinese-future-interactive/11469290)

Vox: 9 questions about the Hong Kong protests you were too embarrassed to ask

[https://www.vox.com/world/2019/8/22/20804294/hong-kong-
prote...](https://www.vox.com/world/2019/8/22/20804294/hong-kong-
protests-9-questions)

These two articles were written in late Aug/mid Sep and do not contain the
most recent developments.

------
duaoebg
I don't see how these protests will be successful. I expect they will
eventually lose and either fall in line or be replaced.

I can't help but wonder how things would be different if the Hong Kong
population was armed like Americans.

~~~
adrr
Light arms vs a modern arms(tanks,planes,helicopters) is just suicide.

~~~
CharlesColeman
> Light arms vs a modern arms(tanks,planes,helicopters) is just suicide.

No, that's wrong. Conflicts like the one in Afghanistan show they can be
effective against a well-equipped modern army, you just need to deploy them
with the right (asymmetric) tactics.

~~~
lm28469
Meh, it's like saying New York could fight off the entire US army by using
asymmetrical tactics. US invading Vietnam or Afghanistan isn't exactly the
same: China is literally surrounding HK and has one of strongest army in the
world. They could obliterate HK in a few hours.

The only way I see it ending well is if somehow the military/police side with
HK and China decide that it isn't worth the trouble. Even if China goes full
berserk on HK I don't see the EU or US doing more than economic sanctions, and
we all know this is as bad for US as it is for them.

~~~
CharlesColeman
> They could obliterate HK in a few hours.

If the population of HK was sufficiently armed and motivated, the only way the
PLA could do that "in a few hours" is with nukes.

But you make a good point: asymmetric tactics can be countered with
indiscriminate extermination. However the _diplomatic_ fallout of such tactics
is likely unacceptable, even to the PRC.

~~~
chongli
_the only way the PLA could do that "in a few hours" is with nukes_

No, they could obliterate HK with conventional artillery. But that would be a
huge mistake, to say the least.

------
tzm
I recommend watching Arthur Kent's documentary (2019) of Tiananmen Square.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA4iKSeijZI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA4iKSeijZI)

------
hacknat
At the end of the day China “owns” HK according to the rest of the world, so I
see little hope of anything positive happening, especially since Nationalism
is on the rise in the West. People like Trump are all to happy to engage in
meaningless trade wars, but have little political ideology to espouse. What
serious ally does HK have?

------
egdod
This is the regime that the NBA is bending over backwards (if not forwards) to
satisfy.

~~~
thatguyagain
Along with a bunch of other large american corporations.

------
peter_retief
The import of those words is horrific, for which there can be no excuse and no
tolerance!

