
Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA - charlieirish
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30326728/?ref=producthunt
======
johnny99
I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the
past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions:

\- Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something
I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does,
which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet
cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying about grease on your pants.

\- Whatever people ride in the Netherlands, a half-decent bike is a lot more
pleasant than something slapped together. The gears don't grind, the brakes
work, they weigh less--which hardly affects speed, but makes them easier to
lug around, take up stairs, etc. Fancy carbon is unnecessary for commuting or
about-town, but $500 for a quality bike that will be easy to maintain is
reasonable. I speak as someone who has three frankenbikes in the garage--
slapping something together is fun, but it's like getting an $800 car. Likely
to be a headache.

\- That said, bike shops tend to be snobby, and try to get you to buy more
than you need. Regular people don't need carbon, or 30 gears, or to spend
>$1k.

\- It's nice that this is an integrated system. Fenders are great (again, keep
you clean), and are often a pain to get on without them rubbing or making
noise. Having them built in is a big plus, and makes the price more
reasonable. Likewise, the trailer, racks, and bags that are made for this are
all reasonably priced, and presumably work together well.

\- If there are hills near you, 2 speeds suck--I live in SF and I'd be pushing
this thing up hills all day. I'm also not a fan of coaster brakes. But this is
a geo/personal thing, ymmv.

\- If you're going to order a bike online and want something cheaper, two
people in my office bought a Schwinn Discover on Amazon for about $270, and
they're great bikes. They came in good shape, partially assembled, but
benefitted from my doing a quick tune-up. Even if you paid a shop to do that
for $50, still a lot cheaper than the Ikea bike, which itself could probably
use some fine-tuning.

~~~
aluhut
I have question for you.

Before my actual bike, I had a mountain bike for something around 15years. I
never changed or did anything to the chain. It was perfect.

Now I bought a new one. After 2 years I went to the shop to have it checked.
They had to change the chain. When I told them my story with the old bike they
told me: "that's how it is today. Chains are not what they were". I'm still in
disbelieve. Can you confirm this?

~~~
factorialboy
Here in Amsterdam, you can either buy a cheap Chinese made bike which breaks
down often or an expensive but reliable Dutch bike.

Needless to say, both are likely to get stolen within the first six months.
;-)

~~~
abrax3141
Why are bikes still getting stolen? So many bikes are stolen that you'd think
the market for stolen bikes, and parts, which can't be THAT huge, would be
saturated.

~~~
valueprop
There's a demand, so there's a market. The problem is other people buy stolen
bikes. I would also call those thieves, even if they don't do the stealing by
themselves. As long as one buys something without original papers, they
support the guys who do the stealing itself.

PS: 2 of my bikes were stolen.

~~~
dpark
I have no papers for the bike I bought brand new at full retail from a bike
shop. Who keeps "papers" for a bike?

~~~
peller
They probably just mean proof of purchase. The other important bit is the
serial number (analogous to a car's VIN), often found under the bottom
bracket.[0] You can (and should) register it with the local police, and there
are a few online registries too. It's not an effective deterrent[1], but it's
better than nothing. (I've had a bike returned to me because I registered it.
That was before I learned to always use Kryptonite U-locks.)

[0] [https://bikeindex.org/serials](https://bikeindex.org/serials)

[1] Wrapping your bike in tape, or otherwise making it look like a POS, is the
way to go if you live in a theft-heavy location.

~~~
MagnumOpus
> always use Kryptonite U-locks

Don't. My bike was stolen by rapidly sawing (dremeling?) through a Kryptolok
in broad daylight in a place with some of the most heavy law enforcement
presence in Europe. Their locks are much weaker than their marketing.

~~~
sliken
Kryptonite are plenty strong, they are a good deterent, but not theft proof by
any means. I've talked with people who's job was to cut bike locks. It was
generally something like cables, 15 seconds. Offbrand u-locks 45 seconds and
1/3rd of a cutting wheel, name brands minute in a half and a cutting wheel.
Then the "new york style" heavy ulocks were on the order of 5 minutes and 3
wheels.

Certainly there are bigger cutting discs, if you are willing to make a bunch
of noise and sparks you can cut them more quickly.

------
tyingq
Zooming in, the belt says "Conti Drive System" on it. More info on that here:
[http://www.conti-drive-system.com/](http://www.conti-drive-system.com/)

They seem to be competing with the "Gates Carbon Drive", here:
[http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/](http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/)

I know nothing of bicycles, but I do recall when automakers started replacing
timing chains with timing belts. The results weren't always great, especially
with interference engines where misaligned timing means bent valves.

~~~
userbinator
More interesting is the fact that it's a 2-speed automatic. I've seen previous
attempts at adding automatic transmissions to bikes but much of the reviews
out there seem to mostly complain about the shift points and inability to
control them. E.g. they shift at a fixed speed and there's no way to
"kickdown" unlike an automotive automatic, which also takes into account
engine speed and throttle position. I suppose the analogous indication for a
bike would be the force being applied to the pedals.

~~~
crispyambulance
I believe it is this one (or an OEM variant):
[https://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/automatix](https://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/automatix)

I think its gimmicky.

If you're going to bother with internal hub gearing, you might as well make it
manual-- its even easier than shifting a derailleur and you don't need to be
moving. Its not like automatic 2-speed shifting is solving a real problem.

~~~
Illotus
Well it is pretty handy to have the uphill gear and standard gear on a town
bike.

------
kpozin
IKEA's disclaimers are more apt than ever.

> WARNING - Serious or fatal crashing injuries can occur from furniture tip-
> over. To prevent this furniture must be permanently fixed to the wall.

~~~
SixSigma
That was required from the exact tip-over happening too often

~~~
seattle_spring
On a bike?

------
woodruffw
I've been keeping an eye on this bike's development for a while, and I'm not
disappointed with the outcome. It's still more expensive than a box-store
bike, but I hope that availability at IKEA will make it more appealing to
college students. Internal gears and a belt drive will make for more
interesting maintenance, but anything beats the hi-ten 18-speed monstrosities
that currently dominate college campuses.

~~~
Terretta
My favorite bike for daily short commute -- jump on, jump off, no special
gears, no maintenance, dirt cheap:

[http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/g29ss.htm](http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/g29ss.htm)

The wheel size and choice of fixed gearing largely just works, like a BMX was
all you needed as a kid.

~~~
BozeWolf
Looks fragile to me. Cheap disk brakes. Hand brakes. Gears? Expensive tires
(why mountainbike style tires on a normal road?) I bet my €50 franken bike
lasts longer. Its an (i guess) ~20 year old ugly bike with rear brake. But
most important: it is a sort of decent brand (batavus). Most of the stuff fell
off, lights broke etc. Front fender is partially broken but rear fender still
ok. Except for some oil on the rusty chain and a few flat tires no
maintainance at all. Its outside 24/7 for the last four years now. Will serve
me fine for another few years but i need tires. Also the frontfender should be
fixed. I might buy me a "new" one somewhere in 2017...

It is very comfortable to ride! I use it to cycle to my parents which live
12km away from where i live! faster than public transport :)

Bought it here and it is a bike like those ones on the photo.
[https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/\--CYh7a1OuUk/VDVXgX2RiaI/A...](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--CYh7a1OuUk/VDVXgX2RiaI/AAAAAAAAAC8/XaS8us-5GqU/10612635_751553888219689_8968606284414779039_n.jpg)

------
mtdewcmu
Can anyone figure out why it's so expensive? Here's a fancier-looking 26"
bicycle on walmart.com for $79.97 - $249.00. [1]

[1] [https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadmaster-Granite-Peak-
Men-s-...](https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadmaster-Granite-Peak-Men-s-
Mountain-Bike/51233650)

~~~
bane
I grew up with a slew of craptastic second hand, thrift store and K-Mart level
bikes since it was all we could afford (and as I grew, the bikes grew). We
used to beat the living snot out of those bikes and I don't remember any of
them costing more than $150 new and they either never broke or were easy to
repair. I would expect to pay no more than around $300 for a similar quality
of bike these days.

The last time I walked into a bike shop I turned right around and walked out.
Since when did bikes get so unbelievably expensive? I just wanted one for
tooting around the neighborhood and maybe popping a curb or two, and the
cheapest I could find was around $500. Most were easily in the $1000-$3000
range.

I think younger people have been trained that bikes need to be expensive but
unless you're doing some very very intensive mountain biking or road racing
you probably will never encounter a problem with a Walmart-class bike.

Every year Costco sells some bikes for around $300-$400 and they're in the
class that I care about. Probably "better" than Walmart, but not these
outrageous prices in bike stores.

IKEA quality is also often very questionable, the "Family" price seems closer
to reasonable. $400 otherwise? No way.

I really just want a Hyundai Elantra bike, not a BMW M3 or a Ferrari.

~~~
tehwalrus
I used to work in Halfords in the UK and they sold adult bikes in the apollo
range for £75. They do still have one for £80 on their website.

The apollo outrider (as it was then called) was always pretty shoddy, but
mostly just for the look and feel of the components, a bit heavy etc. We
didn't get that many of them back in for repair.

~~~
Symbiote
> We didn't get that many of them back in for repair.

But you don't know if they're actually used.

My mum and sister have cheap bikes from Halfords. They see less than 50km of
use _per year_.

I used something similar (maybe Asda or Tesco's version?) and it was ruined
with 1000km or so of use -- every bearing worn out, the wheel rims worn ... it
was miserable to ride it.

~~~
tehwalrus
Sure, I thought that point had been made elsewhere in the thread.

------
zobzu
\- 15kg is not light even for a tank build.

\- 2 speeds 26in wheels addes to that weight ensure that you can only ride
flat terrain, specially if you aren't a fit experienced cyclist...

\- disc brakes are great when good quality but also require regular
maintenance and truing unlike traditional brakes

\- bikes twice the price don't have 25 limited frame warranty. they have life
warranty.

so basically whats good about this bike?

well, the belt drive. thats it. at this price, i dont know if I'd recommend it
given the issues and that nobody has really tested the bike yet

~~~
antisthenes
Yeah, as a person who grew up riding fixies, because nothing else was
available and then having finally tried riding a proper multi-geared 24 speed
bike, I'm never going back to anything less than 8 speeds.

The flexibility it gives is amazing. You can basically ride on 30%+ inclines
by shifting speeds (albeit slowly). I don't see myself being able to do that
on a heavy 15kg 2 speeder, and if I have to get off a bike, then by definition
it failed its purpose.

------
mianos
I saw this in the store on the weekend. The bike is very very heavy. All well
and good if you live in Holland but if you don't, this is an expensive sea
anchor. (I commute every day on a bike worth less than fifty bucks and ride 5k
a year on my road bike).

------
mrfusion
I have a 30yeae old bike and I've never done anything special with the chain.
Should I be worried?

~~~
bluedino
You must not ride it much. Chains and gears are wear items on bicycles. They
should be cleaned and lubricated regularly.

~~~
collyw
The gears and chain generally wear at the same rate. If you put a new chain on
a worn out old set of gears they will likely slip.

~~~
stusmall
The chain wears out muuccchhh faster than gears when properly maintained. If
you let your chain stretch too much, then you'll wear out gears quickly. This
isn't them wearing out at the same rate, it's a worn out chain ruining your
cassette and chainrings.

------
peterburkimsher
Belts and chains both break.

Ordering a replacement belt will take several days, if not weeks.

Removing the broken link from a chain takes a few minutes with a portable tool
that I carry with me. I can still get to the office on time.

Failure-mode operation is more important to me than keeping my hands clean.
Sure, my bike's noisy and dirty, but it's a whole lot faster than walking.

------
cwiggs
Does anyone know if the trailer can be used with other bikes? I don't see
anywhere on the site where it explains how it attaches to the bike.

edit: nevermind, i missed the manual. It looks like it will attach to just
about any bike as it just attaches to the bicycle's rear wheel.

------
ashark
Like all their other stuff, this is useless to me unless the local store
happens to choose to stock it. Ikea's distribution/delivery system is super
annoying.

------
catpolice
43 lbs, ouch.

~~~
woodruffw
33, although that's still quite hefty by modern standards ;)

------
xgbi
It is me or there's no rear brake? Without suspension at the front, this asks
for front flips whenever I touch the brakes too hard..

~~~
brndnmtthws
90% of your braking 'power' comes from the front brake. Under hard braking in
ideal conditions, this is closer to 100%. You can safely remove the rear brake
from most bikes. This is a common misconception [1]. The same is true for
motorcycles.

[1]:
[http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html](http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html)

~~~
crazygringo
That is not a misconception at all, at least not for bicycles, and it's highly
dangerous to suggest so.

Have you ever tried braking while going down a steep hill? (e.g. San Fran
hills?) You know, to stay at a safe speed? Front brake will flip you over in
an instant, I know because I've done it, even at slow speeds, when my rear
brake cable snapped. After a couple tries I walked home, since bicycling
without a rear brake was clearly suicidal.

And your linked article just talks about the rider flying over the handlebars
because the rider isn't "bracing themselves against deceleration" \-- whatever
that means. I'm talking about the _bike itself_ flipping.

~~~
Unman
> Front brake will flip you over in an instant, I know because I've done it,
> even at slow speeds

That's because you simply do not know how to ride a bicycle. In such a
situation you need to get your weight back behind the saddle and modulate the
application of the brake.

O.P. is one hundred percent correct that you do not need a rear brake -- and I
speak as someone that rode for several years in without one including in SF.

~~~
crazygringo
I "simply don't know how to ride a bicycle?" That's a big assumption you're
making there, buddy.

I don't know how your particular weight is distributed on your particular
bicycle or what, but you're spreading dangerously wrong ideas.

If you're going downhill and a child runs out in the street from between cars
and you need to stop, and you're a normal person on a normal bike, you need a
rear brake, end of story.

If you modulate your front brake to not lock up, that simply means you stop
far too slowly, and hit the kid. Even at what seems like otherwise a safe
speed, things (like children, or soccer balls) can run out in front of you at
the last second and you need to stop suddenly.

You _absolutely_ need a rear brake for safety. Just because you could get by
without one in most situations doesn't mean you can get by without one in all
situations.

~~~
Unman
It's not an assumption. You have now repeatedly asserted that you do not know
how to.

~~~
crazygringo
Since you seem to be unable to see that the issue has not been "decided" as
you think it is, especially as there are different bicycle types and different
body types, I'll leave these quotes here from [1] and [2] so that other people
can be safely warned:

"You should always apply the rear brake, and slightly in advance of the front
brake, so that a slight skid at the rear will warn you if you get close to the
hazard point at which the bike may tip."

"Flat asphalt is one thing, 30 degrees sloped rocky road is another. My hold
is that in the second case the back brake is MORE important than the front
brake."

"I myself got into the accident once. It happens so fast that you never have
time to lean your body backwards and provide more tractions for the rear wheel
like other have stated."

"Depending on where your center of mass "hovers" over your bike, you may need
a different strategy."

"Having had more than a few over-the-handlebar incidents back in the day,
there is no situation in which I would ever even consider using only the front
brake again."

"On the road bike you are alot lower and therefore don't go over the front
quite as quickly."

"If you learn to move your weight back (ideally behind your saddle) during
strong braking then going over the handle bars is nearly impossible (except
under very steep hills)." (Note the "steep hills" part, which is my whole
point about safety.)

"On mountain bike, the momentum partly transferred to seat and pedal as a
result from a more up-right pedalling position. Remember that your body is
about 3-5 times the weight of the bicycle, and they are on top of the bike. So
the higher you are from the ground, the easier for you to toppled up."

[1] [http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/10918/do-
skilled...](http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/10918/do-skilled-
cyclists-really-use-the-front-brake-alone-probably-95-of-the-time)

[2] [http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/25856/why-do-
we-...](http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/25856/why-do-we-need-
front-brakes)

~~~
Unman
None of those quotes demonstrate anything other than the simple point that
someone who has experience in riding a bicycle knows to get their weight back
and low so that (per your own quote) it is _nearly impossible_ even on steep
hills to endo.

It would be refreshing if you were able to demonstrate a capacity for
admitting that perhaps you have something to learn. I would advise taking a
mountain bike class and coupling it with something like the U.K.'s Bikeability
or the U.S.A.'s League of American Bicyclists equivalent.

I fear, instead, that you will spend your time hectoring internet strangers
about the dangers of bicycle riding based on your own incapacities and
incapabilities.

Good luck.

------
gonzo
Still riding my 1992 Gary Fisher "Super Caliber".

------
mrfusion
What means flat pack?

~~~
mtdewcmu
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready-to-
assemble_furniture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready-to-assemble_furniture)

------
rbinv
How is that chainless?

~~~
Lockyy
From the manual:

> This bicycle is powered by a belt drive, which is a rustproof, durable and
> maintenance-free alternative to a regular chain.

Seems like it's a similar but different system to produce the same outcome. It
also says to not oil it, just wash with water. The bike also has no gear
cables so it looks like it's designed to minimise maintenance as much as
possible and that's a part of it.

------
milkey_mouse
> WARNING - Serious or fatal crashing injuries can occur from furniture tip-
> over. To prevent this furniture must be permanently fixed to the wall.

Somehow I doubt permanently fixing one's bicycle to the wall will help.

------
peterwwillis
It's two gear, so it's not great for inclines, and the belt and frame are less
durable. I'm not sure it's worth the money once you learn bicycle maintenance
(but you could say that about a lot of IKEA furniture and
woodworking/metalworking)

~~~
legodt
If the belt is like standard belt drives (I need to look further into this,
not sure if Ikea cheaped out or not), it should actually stand up to time
better than a chain would. Belts are simply carbon cord embedded in a molded
casing of nylon and polyurethane, and, more importantly, do not have any
moving parts or linkages. It's just a belt! So you don't have to worry about
the metal pitting over time or road salt settling in and destroying your
drivetrain like you would with a traditional metal chain. This is more
important to the European market where bicycle riders my not have cars, but
owning a bike that you aren't afraid of taking out in the rain is another
benefit of the belt.

My biggest concern though is that like all parts, the belt will fail
eventually. A quick look online shows that new belts cost around $250, over
half of the retail price of this bike!

~~~
dsr_
...which is presumably why there's a 10 year warranty on the belt.

~~~
legodt
Nice, good looking out. I assume Ikea isn't about to staff a mechanic for a
low-occurance problem for a single product, so I wonder how they will handle
warranty for the labor of replacing it.

~~~
ch4s3
probably contracts with local bike shops

