
Launch HN: Cloosiv (YC S19) – Order ahead from local coffee shops - timgriffin77
We’re Tim and James and we’re building Cloosiv (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cloosiv.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cloosiv.com</a>), an order-ahead app for independent coffee shops.<p>We started working on this because we believe that coffee is the most overlooked sub-vertical in retail. Coffee is the most repeated purchase that Americans make every day, with over 220M cups purchased daily at coffee shops, cafes, bakeries and diners. Starbucks is the largest chain, but they only process 2.5% of those daily sales. It’s the 50,000 independent merchants across the U.S. that sell the largest percentage. Starbucks&#x27; order-ahead app is actually the most-used mobile payment app in the US—more than Apple Pay and Google Pay. Their users know that they can use the same mobile app at any Starbucks location. But the rest of the market, the other 97.5%, haven’t had a similar option. We’re focused on providing that experience across independent coffee shops in the US.<p>We consider the two of us meeting as our luckiest milestone to date. James had set out to build his own development agency at the same time that Tim was looking for help building v1 of Cloosiv. We met on Upwork and quickly realized that our skillsets complimented each other. That contract was James’ first and last while running his own agency.<p>Since our initial launch in 2018, we’ve processed over 35,000 orders for $250,000+ in revenue on behalf of our coffee shop partners, with orders and volume growing 40% monthly. Our network includes over 200 local coffee shops, with another 150+ locations currently onboarding. We’ve been able to win these early customers by building our product alongside them. In addition to gaining their trust, this process has resulted in features that set us apart from incumbent ordering options. For example, our merchants can log in from any device and make on-the-fly changes. If they’ve run out of almond milk, they can remove that option with a single click, so that customers can’t order almond milk and be disappointed when they arrive.<p>We&#x27;re sometimes asked: why is no one else doing this? There are many mobile ordering apps, but they&#x27;ve all but ignored the coffee market. This is probably because the average coffee receipt is so low in comparison to the merchants they typically support. Another reason is the level of specificity that’s required to win the support of coffee merchants, who are keenly aware of customer expectation when serving time-sensitive, hot-temperature items like espresso. It turns out that a good app for ordering pizza is not the same thing as a good app for ordering coffee. We’ve been able to win coffee shops by remaining focused on their market and its specific needs. This is an opportunity to build the most-used mobile payment option for the most commonly purchased commodity in the country.<p>Most of our current locations skew towards the east coast, because we’re based in Charlotte, NC and it’s where we gained initial traction. Our priority right now is to increase our presence on the west coast. If you wish your local coffee shop had an order ahead option, we’d really appreciate if you shared Cloosiv with them. We’re going to prioritize the most requested-by-HN shops for the next few weeks. You can submit a referral by clicking “Invite a Coffee Shop” on our website or in the app to get a $10 reward - mention Hacker News in the submission and we’ll do everything we can to get them on board!<p>We&#x27;d also love to hear your ideas and feedback about anything and everything in this space! If you want to check out the app, download Cloosiv on your Apple or Android device and if there’s a shop around you, enter promo code HN-2019 at checkout and get 50% off any item. Ok, that&#x27;s all from us. Please share your thoughts and ask any questions you’d like.
======
shubhamjain
I am not your target market, but holy shit, that's one heck of a write-up. I
couldn't have been more "meh" seeing the title, but you sold me on
everything—the size of a market, the growth, how you're doing no one else is
and why it's an awesome opportunity. An amazing pitch. I hope you well for
success.

~~~
timgriffin77
Really appreciate the support!

~~~
wtvanhest
> Starbucks is the largest chain, but they only process 2.5% of those daily
> sales.

Seriously shocking.

~~~
timgriffin77
Same! I couldn't believe it either.

If you're interested, look into Luckin' Coffee too - their rise to power is
remarkable.

~~~
wtvanhest
I'm surprised they are so small. They feel like they are everywhere and doing
a ton of volume. I always assumed they had 10%+ of global market share of
coffee sales.

~~~
timgriffin77
When we started I thought the same thing, but quickly came back to earth when
the data highlighted just how much coffee people drink in other places (think
diners, bakeries, cafes, etc.). In fact, McDonalds is the #1 global chain for
coffee sales, because if there's one thing that people love more than coffee -
it's cheap coffee!

------
julianlam
This is exactly Ritual's (Toronto, Canada) schtick. Order ahead, start
walking. Food will be ready when you arrive. There's no reason why you need to
stick to coffee. I use Ritual to order from my favourite restaurant in the
middle of a tourist attraction. The tourists wait 30+ minutes, and I can
stroll up to the counter and grab my lunch and skip the line.

Ritual even tracks your location with GPS (if opt-in) and delays your order
until the appropriate time.

The first time I used it, it was for a cappuccino. I walked into the store
just as the barista was doing the art with the milk foam. 10/10 timing.

~~~
kitcar
I believe Ritual actually currently operates in a number of US markets, like
Chicago
[https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ritual-3](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ritual-3)

~~~
bb88
It looks like NYC, SF, and Chicago are the big places on their maps. Those
seem to be walking cities, though.

Not sure how their business would translate to the midwest, where many of the
cities are driving cities.

~~~
strig
Depending on the location, it should probably just tell you driving duration
instead of walking.

------
ben_jones
I appreciate the thorough write-up. Here are a few notes from a potential
power user:

1) Your service is currently unusable for me because there are only two shops
in SF both located in the Mission. As a general rule of thumb I have no
interest traveling >= .25mi for coffee.

2) My average monthly spend is ~$150 of primarily take-out coffee split
equally between SBux, Pete's, and other.

3) I'll never wait in a moderate or long line (>= 3 people)

4) I usually choose convenience over quality, for example I prefer Pete's
coffee but the Starbuck's mobile app AND in-store pick-up process is so
streamlined i'll often choose starbuck's (Pete's is catching up).

5) I'm increasingly using Postmates to pick-up coffee + breakfast at local
places but not many storefronts list coffee on their mobile menu (even if they
sell it).

6) I and many of my peers are trying to cut back on Coffee in lieu of lightly
caffeinated teas and other drinks

7) I've yet to find a compelling rewards program that doesn't feel like a
shitty mobile game on any of the ordering apps, they all seem to give
extremely marginal benefits that masquerade as something significant and not
worth my time - looking at you Starbucks app.

8) Though it looks a little raw your app sign-up process was really fluid

\---

I'm really interested in following the biz-dev process behind a small start-up
(that doesn't take on egregious funding) doing the raw canvassing needed to
hit critical mass adoption of store fronts. If you can share, what is your
methodology to reaching out to mom and pop's at scale?

~~~
timgriffin77
Really appreciate this level of detail, all of this is really helpful.

In terms of biz-dev I'm happy to share, because it's been the definition of
doing something that doesn't scale, but it's worked to this point. When we
were getting started, our team + family and friends split up the task of
pinning independent coffee shops on Google Maps, by using keyword searches
like "local coffee," "espresso," etc. From there, we'd profile these locations
by documenting their phone number and then searching the web for an e-mail
address and (preferably) an owners name.

Once we had those email address, we'd setup sales campaigns to anywhere we had
an e-mail address to - we still do this today.

In terms of our approach at scale, we're hyper-focused on partnerships and
reputation. 1) partnering with company's like Square, Odeko and a number of
roasters has allowed us to find customers in existing channels, avoiding the
need to deploy a massive sales team (that requires egregious funding) to knock
on doors 2) reputation is everything in coffee, and the more customers we add,
the more referrals we get from existing locations.

Because we support a single vertical, having a few customers that love our
product and are willing to voice that praise has gone a long way - our goal is
to continue facilitating that level of enthusiasm, in order to grow.

~~~
ben_jones
My company does A LOT of coffee meetings and the actual ordering can be a bit
awkward, usually someone senior pays and you get this sort of awkward exchange
where the other person offers but then lets the first person pay anyways.

What about including it as a corporate benefit like Classpass where a company
can pay for seats and then the seats can get coffee at various places as a
benefit? Could definitely see it being a big hit and a much easier sales
vertical because now you're pitching entire companies visiting a given shop
instead of a single individual. I can dream :)

~~~
timgriffin77
I think that's a great idea. Not surprising, but our highest volume tends to
be at locations in or directly around large corporate offices. That and
hospitals.

We'll definitely look into this, I appreciate the suggestion!

------
tedmiston
This sounds like a great idea and looks like a cool app so far. A desktop web
app version would be nice to have.

One curious question would be how do you scale business onboarding with so
many different coffee shops with subtly different menus?

> We're sometimes asked: why is no one else doing this? There are many mobile
> ordering apps, but they've all but ignored the coffee market.

There is also the Starbucks partnership with Uber Eats ("Starbucks Delivery")
[1] in addition to the in-store pickup from the regular Starbucks app. What's
your advantage if DoorDash enters or Uber Eats expands further into this
market?

> You can submit a referral by clicking “Invite a Coffee Shop” on our website

I tried to submit a few referrals but didn't find this text anywhere to do it.

[1]: [https://delivery.starbucks.com/](https://delivery.starbucks.com/)

~~~
timgriffin77
Thank you - and we definitely have a web app on the roadmap (ChowNow does this
well).

We were able to solve the varying menus relatively quickly, because after
building hundreds of them we realized how similar they were - just random
variations of names, sizes, prices, etc. We built out a core menu with built-
in descriptions for common items, and we just modify those based on what shops
want.

In terms of incumbents, to be honest we haven't spent much time worrying about
this. If they build something to compete, so be it. The only thing in our
control is how we build the product and network at this point, so we're
staying focused on that!

Sorry about the mixup, I had mistakenly changed the link the app was
redirecting to, but it should be fixed now. Regardless, you can submit
referrals here ([https://www.cloosiv.com/invite-a-
brand](https://www.cloosiv.com/invite-a-brand))

------
Nilef
Aren’t coffee shops just seeing this as yet another PoS or interface to
manage? How are you making this easy to integrate into mom and pop shop
processes?

Struggle to see how you can scale without nailing that!

~~~
timgriffin77
Really good point, scaling around existing tech has been a focus for us since
day one. Of the 300+ shops that have committed to using Cloosiv, 90% of them
are on Square. This makes the upfront work easier, because they can just run
our merchant app in the background of their iPad.

As we scale, it'll be important for us to integrate directly into software
like Square (which we're currently working on, we're partnered with them), so
shops can just install the Cloosiv app from their terminal and have orders and
reporting flow through the existing software in place.

~~~
Nilef
Awesome, sounds promising then! Thanks

------
sbuccini
I’m always stoked to see scrappy, consumer-focused startups from N.C. on HN.
There are dozens of us! I’m excited to see the scene grow.

~~~
timgriffin77
Thank you - the startup community in N.C. is small, but that also means it's
supportive!

------
tdeck
Square really tried to make this work with Square Order - for a while the
explicit focus was on coffee. Unfortunately that wasn't successful in getting
the usage numbers hoped for, and was eventually shut down. I hope you're able
to make it work but this gives me a bit of deja vu.

~~~
timgriffin77
Yep - they tried to build it twice I think. We were worried about that when we
started, because we knew a partnership with them would be helpful. After
working with them for a while now, I think it's clear they still believe in
the opportunity.

In terms of why it didn't work out, I think there are two factors to consider:

1) it wasn't their flagship product 2) they had a capped market of support. In
essence, they could only build a network of locations within their existing
ecosystem, and despite that being large, it wouldn't be big enough to win the
space.

I think a 3rd party is most likely to succeed here, because we can facilitate
integrations with all of the POS providers, and build a really big network
that way.

~~~
tdeck
As someone who worked at Square, my impression at the time was that the
problem was lower than expected engagement with the order functionality at
existing locations, which made it hard to show the value proposition (I didn't
work on Order but it was a small company). I'm not sure failing to be a
flagship product caused the problem, Square has other products (e.g. Caviar,
which people often don't know belongs to Square) that have succeeded. This
despite Order having a decent UX and some interesting features like arrival
prediction.

~~~
timgriffin77
Really great insight! Caviar is a good example of how a hybrid approach can
work, especially to your point that most people don't recognize that Square
owns it. Perhaps branding played into the decision, but they shut it down just
after acquiring Caviar, which makes sense.

------
wmab
Congrats Tim & James on the Product Hunt launch today! This is a very powerful
solution for independent coffee shops to access similar demand-side market
effects to Starbucks - I could imagine you doing the same for the supply-side
for them eventually too with increasing purchasing power on behalf of the
independents.

I'd love to chat - I run a menu data company (Woflow) that could help you
onboard these coffee shops quicker as well as add a lot of coffee shops on the
west coast. We work with other YC companies too. will[at]woflow[dot]com

~~~
timgriffin77
Appreciate the support. We've definitely looked into the supply-side, and we
actually partner with a company (odeko) that does a great job at this. Always
open to improving our onboarding process, I'll check out what you're building!

~~~
wmab
Awesome, good luck with fielding questions and comments for the rest of today!

------
opportune
Perhaps OT but how did you arrive at

>over 220M cups purchased daily at coffee shops, cafes, bakeries and diners.
Starbucks is the largest chain, but they only process 2.5% of those daily
sales.

220M is quite a lot for a single day, representing about 1 cup per day for
roughly 80-90% of adults in the US. I could believe this if the statistic were
"brewed" and included coffee bought in bulk from supermarkets/other suppliers
and brewed at home or the office. Even if this metric is using "cup" as a unit
of volume and not a single sale (since a venti coffee at starbucks is many
cups) it still seems very high to me.

I guess this question is at least somewhat relevant since it's how you're
pitching your app to investors and represents the size of the addressable
market.

One other question: how do you plan to address competition from non-
specialized food-ordering apps? My understanding is that food delivery/takeout
and other order-ahead services often include exclusivity deals, and I could
see many cafes and diners opting to choose a non-optimized ordering experience
that allows them to sell and deliver food over one that primarily focuses on
coffee.

~~~
timgriffin77
Good questions all around! What's surprising is that the 220M figure only
accounts for daily purchases. Americans actually drink over 400M cups of
coffee every day. A cup is definitely an odd metric to measure by, it's just
the simplest term to define a coffee or espresso-based drink.

To clarify, this is measuring the U.S.-only, the global market is obviously
much larger. I know it may seem high, but it's a lot easier to put into
perspective that the average American over 18 years old drinks 2 cups of
coffee per day.

In terms of competition, because coffee is just now warming up to the concept
of pick-up, and the majority of the order-ahead market is delivery-focused, we
are at an advantage for optimizing that pick up experience and gaining
traction from there. We partner with shops that offer every mobile ordering
service, we partner with others that only want one - it'll certainly be
something we keep an eye on as we grow.

~~~
opportune
Can you say where you got the figure though, like which source or report?

~~~
timgriffin77
Ah, sorry about that. Yeah there are quite a few stats maintained on the
ssca.org website. Harvard also maintains statistics about coffee consumption,
and Huffington Post did a big expose on it, as well. There's also a lot of
good information from the National Restaurant Association, Statista, Mordor
Intelligence and Mintel.

------
css
Looks like you got the Hug of Death already :(

Cached version:
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:g5z4hq...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:g5z4hq0G56sJ:https://www.cloosiv.com/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

~~~
timgriffin77
Thanks for letting us know - should be up again!

~~~
css
Still down for me

------
verall
I order 2 coffees about 3 times a week through chownow, which has partnered
with a local "chain" that has about 6 locations.

My feedback to you is: if I had to download an app, I would not have bothered.
A super functional mobile webapp is a must, especially for first-time use.
Chownows mobile and desktop sites work great. OTOH, I feel like the dominos
app burned me with advertisments so I uninstalled - I think you should be
really weary of opt-out notifications.

I don't even really mind the chownow $0.50 upcharge, because I'm pretending
that otherwise my local coffee company is getting the full value.

You have stiff competition. You sound super motivated and I wish you good
luck. I have friends and family in Charlotte so I'd definitely try your
platform given the opportunity :)

------
ryanworl
I noticed a $0.40 service fee on each payment. I understand why you're doing
this (fixed payment processor fee), but you could be a bit smarter about it.

For example, eat it on the first order to validate the payment method and
reduce a bit of risk. Then on subsequent orders, don't bill the card
immediately. Allow the customer some amount of credit based on e.g. how many
previous orders they have paid for successfully and the age of their account.

Once you've reached your threshold for whatever amount the user is allowed to
buy before you bill, you then bill the card and send a receipt with the orders
you've just charged for.

This will take some work, but it will reduce the friction of users seeing that
fee on checkout.

~~~
timgriffin77
Really great suggestion, definitely something we could do in the future. We
just rolled that service fee out this week, so we're watching it closely.
Right now, we offer 5 free purchases regardless of how the user pays, but
something that's already clear is that we'll need to remove it from the stored
balance reload.

As we add payment options like ACH, PayPal, etc. we'll have more wiggle room
to adjust the fee based on the final payment method, and establishing a
running total like you suggest could increase that variability even more.

~~~
ryanworl
If you want to push your app's wallet (for cash-flow, loyalty, interest
margin), you could offer additional reward bonuses for larger reloads.

i.e. a $10 reload gets no bonus, but a $30+ reload gets an extra dollar in
rewards.

Presumably you've already seen the CUPS coffee app, but check it out if you
haven't. They're dead as a company now from what I can tell, but they had a
very streamlined experience. They even tried a fixed price model where each
vendor would receive a fixed payment for each cup users redeemed and users
would subscribe to a plan with a certain number of cups a month.

~~~
timgriffin77
Completely agree - definitely a feature, we're building (Bird as a great UX
for this, if you haven't seen it).

Also familiar with CUPS, subscription plans were/are such a gamble for shops,
but I can see why it was tempting to try. I think they're still operating in
some capacity, but they definitely have a limited consumer presence.

------
azhu
I think you're going to hit difficulties getting most local coffeeshops
onboard. Unless there is a brand of local coffeeshop I am not familiar with,
and it's probable that this in-between brand exists in cities without much
space and more of a focus on pumping out volume, most local coffeeshops
identify with the opposite of this ethos. They are focused on the experience
of being in the coffeeshop and standing as a clear contrast to everything that
chains like Starbucks and Dunkin offer. Namely an emphasis on quality and
"realness".

I know many a coffeeshop owner whose immediate response to being pitched this
would be "Starbucks already exists".

~~~
timgriffin77
Completely agree with a lot of your points, we run into coffee shops every day
that are hesitant to offer something like this. That said, resigning
themselves to the fact that a chain exists is a surefire way to go out of
business. Most of the shops we speak with are actively looking for ways to
maintain the quality you've noted, while simultaneously attracting more
customers.

In terms of scale, we're asked about fragmentation a lot. Chains like
Starbucks and Dunkin' will never use Cloosiv, but there's no reason to believe
that as our network grows, that we can't support large regional chains (Joe
Muggs, Dollop) and even national chains (Caribou, La Colombe, etc.).

For now, we're hyper-focused on building out that network, by adding any
interested shop as quickly as possible. That may appear fragmented across the
country, but as we increase our speed we'll be able hit a critical mass
quickly.

~~~
azhu
I think your points of targetting large regional chains and not-Starbucks
national chains are great. I think you may achieve more impactful market
acquisition there.

> resigning themselves to the fact that a chain exists is a surefire way to go
> out of business

Saying this to a local coffeeshop is a surefire way to get them to not only
not listen to you, but to tell all their friends about how much you suck. This
is absolutely wrong. This may work in selling to someone struggling, but the
very fact that any other solidly-in-business coffeeshop exists proves your
argument quite obviously incorrect.

~~~
timgriffin77
Sorry about that, I didn't do a great job of clarifying. What I meant to say
is that we haven't encountered that type of pushback nearly as much as we
anticipated. Owners tend to understand the concept and most are interested in
improving their competitive advantage. The primary concerns we face are around
fulfillment and customer expectation, but we'll likely continue to run into
more shops that are simply uninterested in this sales channel.

------
gilbertmpanga12
At first I was holyshit not another toy-app startup, but the scientific method
the founder used here is pretty mindblowing, we take coffee each day and never
realise the economics and science behind it :)

~~~
timgriffin77
Thank you, appreciate it!

------
devit
Kind of surprised this is a thing: seems like showing up with a 5$ bill or
credit card and getting coffee and change back (whether from a human or from a
coffee vending machine) would be a fine process.

If one is a regular coffee drinker and finds that inefficient, buying a coffee
machine for home/work seems like a better solution than attempting to "order
ahead" and still having to physically get to the coffee shop.

Obviously this app might still have some marginal utility, maybe enough to be
a viable business.

~~~
iamnotacrook
I'm a regular coffee drinker, so it makes no suggest I go home and make a
coffee several times a day when I'm out maybe 30 miles from home. I think
people who can make coffee at home aren't going to forget that just because
this service is available.

The idea of ordering in advance then picking it up sounds fine to me for when
I know - or suspect -there'll be a queue. Also, you'd be surprised how often I
get asked my name when i'm ordering, but when the drink is ready they just
shout out "grande latte" which is often what more than 1 person has ordered so
it causes confusion/grabbiness. Ordering in advance would seem to make it more
likely they'll put a name down, though I could be wrong.

My only problem with this service is that I already tried it (Costa do this in
the UK) but they'll just chuck your coffee away (without a refund) if you
don't get there within 15 minutes of ordering; it's likely I'll be using
public transport to get around and you just can't rely on that so unless I
order as I walk down the street - perhaps stopping, to be safe - I'm in danger
of losing my money, and I'm better off just ordering when I get there.

Oh, and you need a web-page for this - I don't really install apps any more,
as they're like web-pages I can't block the trackers/javascript etc of.

------
g_langenderfer
Got a 404 when clicking invite a coffee shop in Android app

~~~
timgriffin77
Update: fixed - thank you!

Thanks for letting us know! You can refer a shop using this link -
[https://www.cloosiv.com/invite-a-brand](https://www.cloosiv.com/invite-a-
brand)

------
adenverd
> We're sometimes asked: why is no one else doing this?

[https://joe.coffee/](https://joe.coffee/)

[https://www.ritual.co/](https://www.ritual.co/)

If you live in the Seattle area, check out Joe. They cover most of the local
independent chains and are expanding really quickly.

------
tobylane
Sorry if it’s a detail not connected to you, but how easy is it to order a
drink to be put in the customers reusable container?

~~~
timgriffin77
Definitely important, thanks for asking. We haven't solved for this yet, a
couple ideas weren't well received by owners. I think when we roll out a user
profile option, we can start introducing some sort of tagging system to
associate a number of different solutions for things like student/military
discounts and reusable cups (i.e. pay on the app, get the drink when you
arrive.

Another option that will roll out soon will be issuing a card that can be used
in digital wallets like Apple/Google Pay. One of the best ways the delivery
apps (DoorDash, Postmates, etc.) gained traction was not having to ask
permission to list places like Starbucks on their app. They could get traction
at a location and use it win sales with big brands. By releasing a card
payment option, we'll be able to effectively do the same thing.

------
thebiglebrewski
Oh man please take over for Gregory's Coffee in NYC. LevelUp is a pretty bad
UX experience.

~~~
timgriffin77
We'd love to work with Gregory's! Feel free to tell them about Cloosiv and
send a referral through.

------
pmtarantino
How it works for cafés? They must own an iPad / Computer, or you provide with
the PoS?

~~~
timgriffin77
Good question. Most of the shops we work with use a POS system on a tablet
like an iPad, so they just use the Cloosiv Merchant app to field orders. If
they don't have a tablet or phone we offer them a tablet they can use while
they're accepting Cloosiv. In the future, it's our goal to complete
integrations with the major POS providers so any shop can use the app.

------
akhilcacharya
How does this differ from offerings like ToastTab or other modern POS
services?

~~~
timgriffin77
Good question - we're actually focused on partnering with company's like
Toast, Square, etc. Software like that is more robust than a single feature
like order-ahead, they run the entire operation (point of sale, inventory,
employee management, etc.). By partnering with them, we make it easier for
shops to accept Cloosiv without needing additional hardware or software.

------
ddoran
Congrats on the launch. How can I see whether you are in my neighborhood
without first installing the app, accepting the t&c's, creating an account
(and in the process giving you my email address)?

~~~
timgriffin77
Thanks! It's not super obvious (working on a redesign), but you can tap on the
"explore" button from the homepage to take a look at the app without creating
an account.

------
leejoramo
Very interested in this. As a web developer and the owner of a coffee house, I
have been planning to build something like this integrated with Square. This
may save me time and money.

~~~
timgriffin77
Glad to hear it - feel free to shoot me a note with any questions - tpg (at)
cloosiv dot com

------
nfranchise
Cool. This is very similar to Ritual, but they do restaurants as well.

~~~
wmab
Yeah, I love Ritual for ordering - the bonus points system is great as it's
real cash back - similar to the star quests on Starbucks app which get a
little addictive.

------
elliekelly
This is great! I much prefer coffee from the local shop but my routine always
seems to go back to Starbucks/Dunks because it's so much faster and easier to
order ahead.

~~~
timgriffin77
Thanks for sharing, this is a sentiment shared by a lot of people. We used to
do events at some of our early shops, and I lost count of how many customers
said this to the owners of the shop, it really helps when they hear this from
people they could sell more coffee to.

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thinkingemote
You got me at the title but I've not used the Starbucks app... Are what you
are doing similar for the end user?

Any patent issues?

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nabnob
Oh hey, I'm an engineer in Charlotte! Have you guys talked to Amelie's yet?

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timgriffin77
Hey - very cool!

We've made several attempts to work with them, but it hasn't panned out. Feel
free to give them a nudge, and you should try out the app at any of the other
shops in the area, it's our most dense region in terms of locations.

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bb88
>We started working on this because we believe that coffee is the most
overlooked sub-vertical in retail.

Do you have some data to back up this assertion? It feels like this quote came
right out of "Silicon Valley."

Edited to add, And then the next question is, if it really is ignored, are you
sure it isn't that the market has just decided that Starbucks and Dunkin have
won?

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timgriffin77
Totally fair. It's primarily because of how many cups of coffee are consumed
every day, and how few of the existing mobile ordering apps have coffee shops
as an option. The regularity of the purchase and the popularity of the
Starbucks app both point to the opportunity for us.

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bb88
I see it as you're selling to a shrinking market.

That, and the market has been moving towards delivery, think grub hub, Amazon.
So why should I use your app when I can get my coffee delivered?

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timgriffin77
We certainly keep an eye on delivery apps, but we didn't start gaining
traction until we solved for customer expectation issues that owners were
worried about. They're primarily concerned with making sure the latte you
order is still hot when you get it, and as skeptical as they are about order
ahead and pick up, they won't even consider delivery.

~~~
bb88
I appreciate this, I really do. But that is a problem that could be solved by
just adding more Starbucks and Dunkins, who already have their own platform.

I travel a lot. And one of the unsung features of the Starbucks app, is that
the density of stores and the app means I'm never more than 15 minutes away
from a consistent coffee experience.

I also did exactly what you were doing back in 2012ish. We even had an app. I
thought preordering was going to be the next awesome thing.

It turns out that not waiting 5 minutes for your order kinda leaves out the
whole experience of talking to the barista, getting that smile at 6am when
you're not feeling it yourself, and the personal experience of the hand
crafted beverage. My barista knows my name and my order.

And you know how often I use the mobile ordering feature of the Starbucks app?
Like 3 times, and only when the line was really long.

Now if you wanted to create a niche market of curated handcrafted delicious
coffee from friendly independent baristas, that's an app I might be more
inclined to use.

~~~
timgriffin77
I completely agree on density, it's the foundation of our pitch really - the
more shops that are available on Cloosiv, the better the experience. It's
exactly why Starbucks and Dunkin' have such high adoption on their apps.

I also like your example about the hand crafted experience, and I agree - in a
lot of ways that's desired from the customers that seek out local shops.

That said, we've interviewed hundreds of people (customers, random strangers,
etc.), and it's clear that they'd go to their local shop more often if this
were an option. It doesn't mean that they'll use Cloosiv for every visit, but
if we can be there when they don't have a lot of time, that's a win for the
coffee shop and the customer.

~~~
bb88
Hey, so I wanted to do some digging and dig into some questions I had about
this space. This is what I found.

[https://foodtruckempire.com/coffee/fail-
rates/](https://foodtruckempire.com/coffee/fail-rates/)

These are the #1 and #2 reasons given in the survey that coffee shops fail out
of a survey of 232 former coffee shop owners:

    
    
        Unprepared for business ownership – 128 responses
        No Distinct Brand / Experience – 94 responses
    

So it's clear to me that the "Independent Coffee" sub vertical is struggling.
Further I'd worry that "Cloosiv" (and this would be true with "Grubhub")
dilutes brands if they're not already strong. The distinct brand / experience
goes away when every independent coffee shop has the same app for order ahead
that the others do. Instead of the "Stomping Grounds" ordering experience, you
get the Cloosiv ordering experience for "Stomping Grounds".

With GrubHub, your customer has no personal experience anymore with your
store, employees, or brand. Instead, you get a GrubHub employee (hopefully not
too grubby) and trust that your customer experience / brand is handled by the
delivery person -- something which is completely out of your control.

So one way to think of this is that the independent coffee shop market is a
scourge to investment opportunities and you should pivot off coffee shops
ASAP.

Another way to think of this is that the independent coffee market is the
right market, but the ordering ahead app is not the solution they need. They
need strong branding.

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redmondperl
Super cool, can I ask what your tech stack is?

