
There is now an API to build low-volume hardware products - seddona
http://gigaom.com/2014/02/20/there-is-now-an-api-to-build-a-low-volume-hardware-products/
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mik3y
Having recently designed and produced a low volume (<1000 units), low-
complexity (2 layer / 30ish placement) board, I was very happy that my
relationship with the assembly house was _not_ fully abstracted behind an API!
I suspect this was more of an editorial/marketing flourish..

When there was a problem with the SMT stencil over a connector hole that might
have hurt durability, the fab's CTO called me up and then worked with the
stencil house to add an aperature. We worked together similarly on balancing
cost vs quality when weighing numerous otherwise-equivalent board and parts
suppliers. And so on..

That said, it's great to see new stuff in this space. I'm very curious to give
CircuitHub a try and see how it compares to my favorite (lower-tech) shop..

~~~
seddona
Oh yeah i've been there! We hope to eliminate a lot of those types of issues
but in future we will be handling that communication from within the web
interface.

We're working closely with our first partner CM
[http://www.worthingtonassembly.com/](http://www.worthingtonassembly.com/) to
achieve this. They are awesome and even if you dont decide to use CircuitHub
you should check them out!

~~~
EChrisDenney
seddona - he has. I'm the CTO he's referring to :)

~~~
seddona
small world!

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EmilyDesign
Can someone explain the 'normal' production flow for low volume hardware, and
how this is different / what steps it removes / why its better?

I'm just getting started with hardware and still don't have a good grasp on
the stages from design to production!

~~~
michaelt
You might be interested to read Bunnie Huang's blog [1] and this video series
[2]

[1]
[http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=2812](http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=2812)
[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXE_dh38HjU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXE_dh38HjU)

~~~
seddona
+1 for Bunnies blog.

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ph0rque
This is amazing. Meanwhile, we're struggling to find a non-API'd manufacturer
willing to talk to us about a low-volume part we need custom-made:
[http://blog.automicrofarm.com/post/76020315789/frame-set-
aut...](http://blog.automicrofarm.com/post/76020315789/frame-set-
automicrofarm-design) The future is unevenly distributed, indeed.

~~~
seddona
oh cool, are you looking for the metal and laminate? I guess somebody needs to
do a CircuitHub for metal!

~~~
ph0rque
We found a great supplier for metal frames and fittings, but not the flexible
laminated containers.

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tesseract
This looks fantastic. Can't wait for a project to try it on.

Is there any provision for sending components that I either already have in
stock, or that require 'exotic' sourcing, to the assembler? Or do I have to
add them by hand after I get the boards back?

Also, my Altium parts library has a non-standard name for the manufacturer
part number field. Hence most of the parts list didn't automagically populate
for my approval. Would be nice to be able to teach Circuithub what field to
look at.

Can you do basic mechanical assembly on the board? (stickers, press fits, nuts
n bolts, install jumper blocks, etc.)

~~~
seddona
We dont support consignment of exotic components via the web interface yet but
we can handle that via email. Likewise with mechanical assembly, test etc.

We're actually learning what different fields mean as people upload projects.
We're kindergarten level but learning fast!

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mng2
I gave it a go with a small, past project. Overall I think it's an interesting
idea, less of an API and more of a matchmaker/de-frictionizer. Some things I'd
like to see:

1\. Ability to select which files get used. I have a bad habit (from the Orcad
days) of saving in-progress board layouts under different names, as insurance
against program crashes. Kicad used to be somewhat unstable too (3-4 years
ago) but it's gotten much better (kudos for the Kicad support, by the way). In
this case CircuitHub actually selected an old backup file.

2\. Spreadsheet BOM import. I liked how most of the passives showed up
automagically, but there will always be some unique parts out there.

3\. DRC. Is it in there somewhere, or is the user fully responsible?

Pricing is nothing special, but I expected that. The interface is light-years
ahead of most board/assembly houses out there, though. The SVG board and
schematic are a nice touch.

The project is below; note that the main part couldn't be sourced, so the line
item was dropped.

[https://circuithub.com/projects/mng2222/tcm8240](https://circuithub.com/projects/mng2222/tcm8240)

~~~
seddona
Thanks for checking us out.

1\. We should select the file with the most recent modified date, something
went wrong here, i'll look into it.

2\. On the way, many people have requested this.

3\. You wont get a quote if we cant build it, but exceptionally good DRC, DFM
is a goal.

Thanks for the feedback.

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blt
While this seems a little silly, it's cool to imagine a future where many
physical real-world services are accessible via APIs.

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gjkood
I just went to the site to look around. Definitely interested in the concept.
However I only see an option to Login by registering a new/linking with an
existing Dropbox account.

Has anybody seen another way to register?

~~~
seddona
We took the decision to require Dropbox for now. It makes it really easy to
sync new revisions and keeps the user flow simple.

We will probably open that up in the future.

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GregBuchholz
What's an API mean in this context? Is this the workflow? Upload a BOM,
gerbers, drill files, pick and place files, test plan, and they outsource it
to a board house and contract manufacturer?

~~~
seddona
That's the basic idea yes. We dont just outsource to the CM though, we're
integrating deeply with them.

The API statement is a bit premature, right now the only client is our own
AngularJS app, but it's coming.

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pmorici
Interesting, any insight into how cost effective this is for small volume
runs? Say several hundred to 1k. I've got a simple design I'm going to build
and I'm currently weighing just ordering all the boards and components and
doing the assembly myself vs outsourcing all the manufacturing not having
built physical hardware before it's been really hard for me to get a sense of
what the costs will be.

~~~
seddona
That's exactly the sort of volume we are looking to cost optimise. As for
absolute cost it's really difficult to say, it depends so much on the exact
configuration of your board.

If you would like to upload a design the quote is pretty much instant!

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0xdeadbeefbabe
How about btsync in addition to dropbox?

I tried it and it was easy to upload the design and find the parts. Nice job.

[https://circuithub.com/projects/hagna/fivekey](https://circuithub.com/projects/hagna/fivekey)
(it's five keys on a small board with some wiring) in a volume of 1 will be
$919 to assemble, and $95 for just the pcb.

~~~
seddona
btsync is an interesting option. We are thinking about a GitHub link too so it
would track your GitHub project.

Our pricing is high around some edge cases right now (low volumes and simple
boards). That's going to get a lot better over the coming weeks as we refine
the process.

~~~
jotux
Github account linking would be fantastic!

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jaroslavas
Haven't found anything about pricing on their page, so didn't event bothered
to register.

~~~
seddona
Pricing is dynamic depending on the exact specification of your circuit board.
We extract hundreds of parameters from your design and use them to figure out
how much it's going to cost.

We should probably do a better job of explaining this on the homepage though!

~~~
phaer
A few examples could also be helpful to get a better impression of cost
without uploading a finished design.

~~~
GregBuchholz
I've uploaded an Arduino Uno here:

[https://circuithub.com/projects/gbuchholz/arduino_uno](https://circuithub.com/projects/gbuchholz/arduino_uno)

...it's telling me to check back later for the pricing.

~~~
seddona
The trouble here was sourcing of the ATMEGA16U2-MU part. If you check back now
you'll see we suggested the ATmega32U2 as a substitute.

Now that we've learnt the substitute it will happen automatically for all
other projects in future.

~~~
GregBuchholz
I did change that to do-not-populate, so you might what to have that not hold
up the whole process. Also there should be a way to ignore or delete the
autodetected BOM items (which were extracted from the Eagle schematic). The
fiducials were detected, and I think I made them "cosmetic" to continue the
process. It's not 100% clear what "cosmetic" vs "normal" vs. "accessories". A
similar thing happened for a couple of other items, which I simply placed
0-ohm jumpers to short-circuit the process so-to-speak. Also, is there a way
to tell circuit-hub what attribute the manufacturer's part numbers is? That
wasn't obvious. And you should think about adding the reference designators to
the BOM display.

~~~
seddona
noted, thanks Greg! The whole reconciliation process is something we'll be
improving a lot over the coming weeks.

~~~
GregBuchholz
Also, it seems like on your landing page that you'd want to emphasize the
"instant" nature of the quote. I didn't realize that until user 0xdeadbeefbabe
above kind-of mentioned it. I really didn't give it much though, but I'd
assumed you were like every other contract manufacturer, and one you upload
something, they'll have someone get back to you in a week. When I realized
that wasn't the case, I then went to upload something just to see how it
worked. Also, I'd make the "quote breakout" in the lower right corner the
default option, and someone could hide the details if they don't like it.

~~~
seddona
Yep we need to do a much better job of explaining that! Thanks for the
feedback.

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hershel
Circuithub looks very interesting. Has anybody used their service ? How is it?

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seddona
Hi Hershel, Andrew co-founder of CircuitHub here. Thanks for checking us out.
We have a few early beta users that have manufactured with us and to my
knowledge are really happy.

We've got a lot to do though and any feedback is much appreciated!

Thanks

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hahahafail
Are there plans to automate the soldering of components in to place for me?

~~~
seddona
The quote is for full turnkey, so it's pcb + parts + assembly.

~~~
hahahafail
That's really exciting, I will definitely check it out!

~~~
seddona
awesome, thanks, any feedback appreciated.

