
Plugging in Kindle is crashing Windows 10 after summer update - nikbackm
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance/plugging-in-kindle-is-crashing-windows-10-after/5db0d867-0822-4512-919e-3d7786353f95?auth=1
======
peterkelly
It's 2016 and we're still doing drivers in kernel mode :(

Andrew Tanenbaum's arguments for microkernels still ring just as true today as
they always did.

~~~
cm3
Given the new crash-proof video driver architecture since Windows 8 and the
variety of USB devices and their associated complexity, I had assumed the USB
stack would be equally crash-proof by now. Isn't that the case?

I recall they did a major overhaul like that for audio drivers too.

~~~
vertex-four
It's generally pretty "easy" to overhaul the graphics driver layer and get
everyone to rewrite their drivers - the graphics card vendors work closely
with Microsoft in the first place, and there's only a very small handful of
them. USB, not so much.

~~~
digi_owl
USB is also a very ambiguous protocol. Observe the amount of problems device
suspend on Linux was until someone noticed that the one minute mentioned in
the spec was a recommendation rather than a rule.

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kogir
I'd be willing to bet a fair bit of money the underlying problem is caused by
third party software, likely AV. Could make sense, given in the mini dumps the
crash happens right as the Kindle is mounting as a disk.

Perhaps it's not this time, but I personally think Microsoft should do a
better job of naming and shaming when third party drivers/software are
responsible for crashes. Maybe even form a special team that looks out for
stuff like this on forums, does root cause analysis, and maintains a wall of
shame (as well as fixing customer issues).

~~~
nikbackm
I get the crash and I have no AV except the default one included with Windows
10. Same symptoms as this guy [0], so likely related to the drivers included
in the Windows 10 Anniversary Edition.

Luckily there's a work-around so I can still connect to the Kindle with
Calibre; just connect the Kindle _before_ starting Windows, then it will not
crash, and also still work as an USB drive. [1]

[0] [http://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-
debugging/60314-bsod-c...](http://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-
debugging/60314-bsod-crash-when-connecting-kindle-error-involves-partmanager-
sys.html)

[1]
[https://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=F...](https://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdThread=TxS2R55X6VN1AC)

~~~
kogir
I have a Paperwhite and two Windows 10 systems. Works fine on both.

Is your system completely vanilla (mine were fresh installs onto empty drives
from official media), or could your OEM have snuck something in?

I'm not saying you're wrong, or that Windows isn't to blame. There just must
be more to it than Windows 10 anniversary update + Kindle Paperwhite. Maybe
you and others affected have some other thing in common.

~~~
nikbackm
I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10 in-place. Windows 7 was installed
(several years ago) using a clean Windows ISO, I have no OEM/bloatware stuff
installed.

I do have iTunes installed which apparently was the issue for some users.
Others have also reported the getting the crash without that though. But I
don't intend to try uninstalling it and see if that resolves the problem, I
connect the Kindle so seldom that the work-around will do for now.

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kyriakos
With an install-base the size of Windows 10 you can expect problems to come up
but what is worrying is that they shouldn't have existed considering the
"open-beta" / windows insiders. At least someone must have tried to plug in a
Kindle and reported it / or the telemetry should have picked on it.

~~~
Esau
A lot of the people I know who own Kindles never connect it to their
computers. They literally obtain everything via Amazon or via Amazon's
conversion services.

EDIT: now that I think about it, Kindles don't come with power adapters
anymore, do they? So users would probably still be connecting the Kindles for
charging purposes.

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TheGuyWhoCodes
Installing windows 10 was the worst thing I did this year.

My mouse would double click instead of click, had to drop enhanced power mode
in using the device manger on every USB port.

I got BSOD when going full screen on youtube - had to disable hardware
acceleration.

I got BSOD when pressing F5 in powerpoint....

I lost the ability to open the start menu after SP1 - a problem that exists
since windows 8... I had to revert to the previous build.

If the new Microsoft means no QA... I'd rather have the old one....

~~~
FLUX-YOU
How old is your PC? Have you run any CPU/Mem/Graphics diagnostics recently?
Debugged any of the crash dumps?

These symptoms seem like something might be up with your hardware.

~~~
TheGuyWhoCodes
2.5 years, it's a Lenovo W530, with updated video drivers from Nvidia. Run
windows 7 just fine, Ubuntu, gaming, multiple VMs. It's a beast, just can't
handle windows 10 low quality.

~~~
voltagex_
Still doesn't mean that there isn't an underlying issue. I'd say hardware if
you did a clean install or drivers if you did an upgrade.

Grab something like WhoCrashed and you may be able to find the culprit

~~~
legrandkay
I don't think reading let alone debugging crash dumps is a viable option for
most users

~~~
voltagex_
No, it definitely isn't. But for most HN readers it is. I'm happy to help
anyone who reads this. The last crash dumps for a BSOD are often in
c:\windows\MiniDump for a short amount of time after the crash.

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muterad_murilax
What exactly is this "Anniversary Update" anyway?

~~~
paride5745
Windows 10 SP1 with a fancy name.

~~~
bpye
It's a bit different to a service packs, service packs didn't usually include
features, it's more like 8.1 was to 8.

~~~
muterad_murilax
So, what new features does it bring to Windows 10?

~~~
yrro
You can change your default audio output device from the volume icon in the
notification area!

------
n1000
A recent Ars article related to Win 10 driver issues:
[http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2016/08/window...](http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2016/08/windows-10-anniversary-update-breaks-most-webcams/)

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HeadlessChild
Yup, I'm hit by this myself. Ridiculous.

------
arcadeparade
I noticed my laptop fan running louder and longer until I finally updated to
Windows 10. Now the fan is silent. Psychological warfare by Microsoft?
Surprised more people aren't talking about this.

------
infinityplus1
I didn't update yet because something like that would happen.

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ryao
Doing proper testing is hard.

That said, my household switched to a mix of Gentoo Linux, EdgeOS and iOS. We
do not have things crash when USB devices are attached. :)

~~~
electricEmu
That's excellent they meet your needs. It should be mentioned the lack of
drivers for Linux is an issue and some of the binary ones available are flaky
at best.

That said, my household uses a mix of Linux, Windows 10, various IOT, and
Android. I don't have things crash when USB devices are attached; sometimes
they just don't work on the *nix machines.

~~~
nly
Lack of drivers for Linux? Did I wake up in 1996?

~~~
pjmlp
No if using desktops, now laptops....

~~~
nly
Ok, so 2006 then. I've had 3 laptops over 4 years and never had a single
issue. You ancedotal is just as good as mine.

~~~
WayneBro
Your anecodote is not good because it doesn't jive with a very high volume of
other anecdotes that can be seen on the Internet. So maybe take a look around?

Anyway, for my own anecdote - I have a five year old Dell XPS L502X that has
an Optimus style video card in it - Windows 7, 8 and 10 run beautifully on it
with no drivers problems. Meanwhile, any Linux distro I've tried to install
directly on the hardware just barfs itself.

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cmdrfred
Windows 10 is the reason I switched to Debian. I wonder if others will do the
same.

~~~
DHMO
I'm surprised that it was Windows 10 that made you switch. Windows 8 was my
biggest disappointment.

Here's what I feel about each Windows release I've used much (1=low, 10=high):

    
    
        +-----------------+-------------+----------------+-----------+
        | Windows Version | Expectation | Disappointment | Usability |
        +-----------------+-------------+----------------+-----------+
        | 3.1             |           5 |              2 |         8 |
        | 3.11            |           7 |              3 |         6 |
        | NT 3.51         |           7 |              5 |         7 |
        | 95              |           6 |              3 |         7 |
        | NT 4.0          |           7 |              3 |         9 |
        | 98              |           7 |              2 |         8 |
        | ME              |           7 |              7 |         6 |
        | XP              |           8 |              3 |         8 |
        | Vista           |           5 |              5 |         4 |
        | 7               |           4 |              3 |         6 |
        | 8               |           6 |              8 |         2*|
        | 10              |           8 |              6 |         4 |
        +-----------------+-------------+----------------+-----------+
    

* - marred by experience w/Surface RT

~~~
Esau
From what I've observed, the biggest issues with Windows 10 are policy issues.
Forced upgrades, forced telemetry, and deceptive/annoying attempts to get
people to upgrade to it from Win7 and Win8.

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wiradikusuma
I'm having crash problem as well, but it's when I plug my Apple keyboard (the
one with numpad). It will crash Windows 10 right after boot. Unfortunately I
still haven't found the solution even after googling for hours.

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Shorel
Plugging in Kindle opens Calibre in my Ubuntu install.

