
Why the Only Real Way to Buy Bitcoins Is on the Streets - ca98am79
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood
======
betterunix
"It took 40 minutes to catch up to the blockchain before he headed over to the
cafe. And now we have to wait a few more minutes for the laptop to synch up
again on the wireless network at the cafe."

Sounds like a great way to spend money...

~~~
wmf
The fact that bitcoin.org told people to install the slow-as-molasses Bitcoin-
QT software was a big PR mistake. Fortunately they're now recommending fixed
software that can sync in a reasonable time.

~~~
javert
I think the parent and grandparent are missing the big picture. Having a
verifiable digital currency with no central authority was a massive
accomplishment, and PR and how fast things sync were (rightly) secondary
concerns at the time.

~~~
betterunix
"Having a verifiable digital currency with no central authority was a massive
accomplishment"

What exactly do you mean by "verifiable" here? What is being verified?

~~~
javert
I was using "verifiable" to stand in for "you can perform a full audit of the
blockchain, therefore no trust is required." It was a sloppy use of the word.
I was not expecting you to come along, betterunix.

We've had lengthy discussions of this before. Where we last left off, you
asked me to explain why bitcoin doesn't need "security assumptions" of the
kind listed in a sample crypto paper that you provided. That's a fair question
I guess, although I suspect it's ultimately based on some mistaken premise
[1], but I haven't had time to read the paper.

[1] Bitcoin is a new mechanism that approximates Byzantine consensus, though
AFAIK nobody has written a formal paper explaining and proving that. That is
why it works. You can formalize the properties it gives you in a similar way
to the original Byzantine Generals work, except that each general's votes are
proportional to his rate of sha-256 hashing, rather than being one vote each.
Another thing that suggests you have a mistaken premise in your dismissals of
Bitcoin is that Bitcoin has been working for years now, has received massive
investment, and as far as we known has never been compromised in any way.

~~~
patio11
_as far as we known has never been compromised in any way._

Bitcoin suffered a successful double-spend attack [+] during a fork of the
blockchain during this March, which necessitated a drop-everything-and-
downgrade-your-software response from a cartel of miners to prevent us from
having Bitcoin and Bitcoin Prime.

\+ It was by a security researcher, not by an adversary, so the community has
mostly forgotten it and those that remember would like to pretend it never
happened.

~~~
javert
You are right to call me on this and given a probably-not-too-reasonable
definition of "compromise" for Bitcoin, you are technically correct.

But it's like getting a tour of the Tesla factory and saying, "It can't even
run under water? Well gosh, this sucks!"

Blockchain forks are _going_ to happen, because software isn't perfect. That
has long been known. It's always been a question of when, not if.

But they do not matter, because it's easy to heal them in precisely the way
that this one was healed. Which is part of the beauty of bitcoin.

They also don't matter much because they don't have much of an impact on users
unless you're doing something you shouldn't do.

> so the community has mostly forgotten it and those that remember would like
> to pretend it never happened.

That's pretty cynical. I'd say the community has mostly forgotten it because
it wasn't a surprise to anyone in the community that it could happen, it was
just a matter of when.

That the whole incident was pretty forgettable is a testament to how easy it
is to heal a blockchain fork and how little impact one actually has.

~~~
rmc
_They also don 't matter much because they don't have much of an impact on
users unless you're doing something you shouldn't do._

This is money we're talking about. If someone finds a way to make millions of
euro by "doing something you shouldn't do", by god, someone'll do it. So then
what happens?

~~~
javert
The most realistic scenario I can think of where that would be possible is if
a kidnapper demands that you pay them some huge quantity. You both meet up,
you send them the transaction, they drop off the kid and leave, and then it
turns out to have been a blockchain fork and you keep all the money.

That is NOT how real business is done.

When you are engaging in trade with someone, someone has to trust the other
party, or you have to use escrow. Expecially if a ton of money is involved.

------
VMG
Also great way to meet people who are interested in Bitcoin. Just post an ad
for low volume with a fair price and you'll meet all kinds of people.

------
CamperBob2
I don't understand how this is supposed to work. When I installed the standard
Qt client for the first time, it took a couple of _days_ before it had
downloaded the blockchain and was ready for use. What moron thought this was
going to scale?

The article even points out that Litecoin clients need several hours to catch
up with _that_ currency's version of a blockchain.

Is someone ever going to build a true P2P cryptocurrency, or are all of the
current contenders doomed to collapse under their own mathematical weight?

~~~
dustcoin
Most end users can use a SPV (Simple Payment Verification,
[https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Thin_Client_Security#Simplified_P...](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Thin_Client_Security#Simplified_Payment_Verification_.28SPV.29))
based client like Multibit ([https://multibit.org](https://multibit.org))

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iblaine
Oh geez,the first page has a pic of a mac laptop with a QR code sticker. I
just had a hipster gag reflex but thankfully my fresh kombucha is calming my
upset stomach.

~~~
marmot1101
Not a mac. Mouse buttons and a windows key. I imagine that the QR code is to
facilitate transactions.

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MichaelGG
Buying in person links your address to your physical person, getting good
images, possibly your address by following you, even perhaps getting a DNA
sample. That seems somewhat traceable.

It seems much better to send cash via mail, much more anonymously (watch out
for cameras near post boxes and use gloves).

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Zigurd
Nice touch to get the curb in frame for a picture of a curb market.

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jyz
That laptop picture seems sketchy as F. Biased much? Check out my shady laptop
yo! Make these guys look like anti-government hippie-hacker-drugdealers

~~~
irobinson
What, the one on the first page? I don't think it's very problematic. It's
belied by the more or less fair actual reporting.

Furthermore, I think that people who would immediately conceive of Bitcoin
enthusiasts as "anti-government hippie-hacker drugdealers," as well as those
people who would similarly conceive of any of those things as inherently
pejorative, already have their minds made up and don't need help from the
supremely subtle implications of a photo.

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haakon
Note that this article is one month old.

~~~
rfnslyr
I'm _nearly_ positive _most_ of us can read dates ;)

~~~
Chris2048
Yeah, but note it.

~~~
ganeumann
In a notebook. In notation. Have it notarized.

