
The Slow Web - rguzman
http://blog.jackcheng.com/post/25160553986/the-slow-web
======
amix
There is an easy way to win over "the fast web" without shutting everything
down. It's easy and boils down to understanding how reinforcements work. The
most addictive and enjoyable reinforcements are random reinforcements, both
for humans and animals (see B. F. Skinner's work for reference). If you don't
want to get addicted then make your rewards less random by for example
checking your email, HN etc. two/three times a day in predictable patterns.

Personally, I use SelfControl. When I want to do serious work I fire it up and
block everything for 1-3 hours. This works wonders for my productivity and it
also regulates addictiveness. I don't know if this makes me part of the "slow
web" movement, I just don't like distractions.

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mccutchen
I think this is a beautifully expressed thought:

"… as soon as I saw 'the slow web movement,' I assigned my own meaning to it.
Because it’s a great name, and great names are like knots—they’re woven from
the same stringy material as other words, but in their particular arrangement,
they catch, become junctions to which new threads arrive, from which other
threads depart."

~~~
cdcarter
This really is a great phrase. Obviously the same phenomenon occurred with the
term Web 2.0.

~~~
brianpan
I'm having a hard time without sarcasm tags. The Web 2.0 was so vague a phrase
that it had too many meanings and the end was meaningless. I doubt any new
threads were woven due to the invention of that phrase.

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chewxy
I built Strangers for Dinner[1] and edgeyo[2] around the slow web idea.

The idea is that people should have lives. If you are running a startup, you
want to be out there writing your app, you want to be out there courting your
customers. You don't want to be writing reports to investors or spending your
time writing a pitch deck, presenting and in all probability, fumbling and
failing. You shouldn't be frantically worrying about notification on twitter
and facebook and angel.co.

The main philosophy is that you shouldn't have to do that. You should be doing
what you're best at doing, and everything else should just be background noise
that can be easily ignored.

I think this is the reason why people have so much trouble with email. When
everything goes to your inbox, nothing gets done. The idea is to limit what
goes into your inbox, not to invent a new smarter inbox.

Jack sums it up as "Timeliness. Rhythm. Moderation". On the note of Rhythm, my
personal experience with rhythm on edgeyo wasn't too good. Rhythm has caused
the equivalent of ad blindness for edgeyo emails, so when I created Strangers
for Dinner (since we had to pause work on edgeyo for a bit), the idea slowly
swapped out to sending sporadic notification emails sent out in fibonacci
sequences over time (think a ciccada's lifecycles). Yes, I realize it's a dark
pattern and probably shouldn't do it too often.

The fast web has caused us to be feedback junkies. It's a problem both my
sites are facing, and I was wondering if anyone knows how to solve it. It's
quite difficult explaining to people that you don't have to stick around the
website; instead, the service comes to you - at moderated intervals.

p/s: I also own aslowweb.org which I originally intended to lay out a doctrine
of the slow web philosophy. Thanks for motivating me to put love into that.

[1] - <http://strangersfordinner.com>

[2] - <http://edgeyo.com>

EDIT: I actually own the aslowweb.org, not .com

~~~
dorian-graph
I think there are several principles and ideas behind this 'Slow Web' and the
other things you've mentioned.

For example, take information, specifically, knowing _things_ about other
people. When I meet someone I can find out so much about them through
Facebook, Twitter, etc. that there seems to be several drawbacks; one is lack
of mystery and this goes against the modern 'Know _everything_ ' idea. Another
is there is the reduced [or modified] learning/getting to know other
people—the experience of it. There'so much more like inherent impatience in
the design and behaviours of apps, people, expectations, etc. now. Someone
will quote Thoreau soon, I imagine. ;)

I had a look at Strangers for Dinner, neat idea! During uni holidays I might
give it a look. It's nice to see an Australian-based startup too! I'm
personally interested in your idea with slowweb.org so to be sure to update
us, perhaps even involve Cheng and whomever is interested.

~~~
chewxy
I've already sent Jack and Walter an email wrt A Slow Web. We'll see what will
manifest I guess.

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ilaksh
As far as I'm concerned, this is a superior piece of literature, a classic
blog entry for the museum, and a very important idea as far as the progression
of personal information technology.

Having said that, I have to say that it also exemplifies an attitude and
culture that is disconnected from reality.

There are still many hard fundamental problems and wheels being reinvented on
the web and in technology in general. Many of our popular tools are obviously
severely lacking. We should solve those problems rather than wallowing in
decadent perfectionism.

Beyond the web and apps, the planet is faced with brutal inequality as well as
economic, ecological and philosophical crisis.

While I've accepted and enjoy my daily use of hundreds of times more resources
than a significant portion of the population of the planet, and I am happy to
stay in my privileged first world bubble, I have not let myself fall into
dream-like state and forget what's outside of it.

~~~
scribu
I don't really get what you're saying. We should continue to check email 50
times a day because there are children starving in Africa?

~~~
scribu
Let's try that again:

The article advocates for web apps that don't try to get their users addicted
to them.

ilaksh is saying that the author of the article is disconnected from reality.
I would honestly like to know why he thinks that, as I don't see the
connection.

~~~
ilaksh
You can't argue against that type of improvement (not trying to addict
people), but he is saying more than that.

I was commenting on the way the article was written, and like I said, the
subculture, which I find to be something like a gen-y technological adaptation
of traditional elitism, as much as the content.

Sure, we might as well continue refining our app consuming experience, but at
a certain point you might look outside of your fine app dining establishment
and notice how many malnourished kids are standing around.

In other words, once you get to a certain level of refinement and convenience,
you should realize that there are more substantive problems.

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zachrose
This reminded me of an idea I had a few years ago: randomly delayed messaging.
There should be some utility (Facebook app, whatever) that sends messages that
take anywhere from 3 to 7 days.

The idea is that you won't know for sure when the recipient will get the
message, so you don't actively expect their response.

Likewise if you get a message, you can reply directly and it will still feel
casual, or reply later and nobody will feel ignored.

~~~
alphang
I thought you were joking, because you're basically describing the postal
service, ie. snail mail.

~~~
chewxy
with postal tracking nowadays, even snail mail is making me a feedback junkie.
I mean, who hasn't been repeatedly pressing F5 on a mail tracking page?

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ericmoritz
Wow, I didn't know there was a name for this. On my list of things to make
someday is a "Slow Web" social network.

~~~
DanI-S
A good friend of mine sends out a brief monthly email, summarizing what he's
been up to, the movies he's seen and the music he's listened to. It is
something I look forward to receiving.

There's definitely some merit in the idea.

~~~
Kerrick
This was often done in the past via "Christmas Letters," or other annual (or
semi-annual) letters. A family would write a one- or two-page letter detailing
their major life events and experiences since their last letter, and send it
to friends and family they haven't seen or talked to much.

Sending them is a good way to keep in touch with people you wouldn't normally,
and receiving them is nice because you can feel like you've never fallen out
of communication with your family, even if the Christmas Letters are the only
kind you get.

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arkitaip
The slow web strikes me as one of the latest links in a very long chain that
originates to a time when cities emerged with completely different rhythm and
pulse than the agrarian/hunting life before it. It seems that ever since since
the transition from nature to city, we've been trying to maintain a balance in
our lives by controlling the fast pace and chaos that surrounds us.

Only I'm not sure the slow web is enough. In the same way that it's impossible
to radically change the pulse of life while still living in the city, boxed in
by your social interactions and work, is it possible to slow down the pace of
the web in a meaningful way? Shouldn't we put our efforts on a lower level of
the pyramid instead of superficial work at the top of it? Not so much slow web
as less web altogether?

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josephturnip
The promise of the web (and I suppose, most web services) is/was to make our
lives easier, smoother, and better, but it seems like each new app or service
I use takes a little more of my time rather than a little less.

I personally feel like the slow web movement is at it's heart about using the
web for its purported purpose: streamlining communication pathways instead of
creating new ones.

~~~
maxerickson
I always think about how technology is supposed to be helping me do the things
I want to do when I see people arguing about which many-thousands-of-apps
ecosystem is better. Of course a huge ecosystem means that it is likely to
have the apps I crave, but I don't find arguments about 1 million vs 2 million
particularly compelling.

It's also sort of interesting how the dialogue around internet sites focuses
on how frequently a user visits a site and how long they stick around, rather
than how much value they get out of each visit. I suppose that's what happens
when attention is being sold, but the incentives don't necessarily line up in
a friendly way.

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niels_olson
I stopped using iDoneThis because I was doing it in a vacuum. It would be
great to get other people involved, but no one in my office was interested.
There's also the issue of the founder's history, which seems to be marred a
bit.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3886171>

but the idea is incredibly provocative.

~~~
rguzman
I'm sorry to hear you stopped using iDT. We've heard this same feedback a few
times now and we're still trying to figure out how to make it easier for
people in your position to get the team interested. Do you have any insight as
to why people weren't interested?

I'm one of two co-founders of iDoneThis, the other guy is smalter, not Zach.
We tried out doing a promotion with awesomeness reminders for a while. The
story of that promotion is the parent to that comment you linked to.

~~~
niels_olson
Can you clarify how Zach's name got dragged into this then?

I think the other thought would be that I would like to run my own idonethis
server, or have some means of capturing the data in a usable format for
myself, the way gmail allows you to get your mail for keeps and delete your
account. I felt like I didn't have control, and, with the Zach bit, I felt
that whomever did have control, may not be reliable.

Please contact me: my.username@gmail.com and I would be happy to reconsider.

~~~
drcube
I don't have anything to do with anybody or anything really, but I think he's
saying Zach is NOT a cofounder of iDoneThis. He's the founder of
AwesomeReminders, who iDoneThis teamed up with for a promotion a few months
ago. Otherwise, nothing to do with iDT and should probably not be a factor in
using their service.

Do I have that right?

~~~
smalter
Yes

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Splines
It would be nice if I could get Google Reader to do this. Push everything as a
single update, once a day. That way I could get my RSS fix and have zero
temptations of looking at it.

Then again, I could just have more self control. But every little bit helps.

~~~
noahc
You can use something like this: <http://www.feedmyinbox.com/>

It's not free if you want to really use their scheduler, but I've found if you
add the RSS feeds, they tend to be delivered overnight.

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swdunlop
From the article, I understand "Slow Web" to be six paragraphs without getting
to the point. Sort of an antithesis to TL;DR. But, now I know about an
interesting new noodle shop, and a task list app.

~~~
Kaizyn
The idea of the slow web is quite simple. When an idea has more time in which
to incubate, it becomes higher quality. Most of what we encounter via the
"fast web" is information bits that are released as close as possible to real-
time and without much time for reflection and meaning. Naturally, the
alternative is to take things slower.

~~~
swdunlop
This sounds similar to spaced repetition, which is a practice of revisiting
memorization of facts with increasing intervals instead of over-drilling with
repetition. (See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition> for the
theory, and <http://memrise.com> for the practice.)

I respect the idea of trying to offset our common diet of interactive and
distracting social media and news trolling. But in the context of a "To Do"
list, I prefer the immediacy of something like Trello -- an endorphine fueled
feedback loop encouraging people to get things done seems more practical for
me.

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hu_me
personally the idea of a slow web resonates with my view that anything
important needs to be given time to simmer. Even in the work I do and
decisions I need to make, if time allows I like to literally sleep on it
rather than shoot back a reply as soon as I see a message.

Having something in the back of your mind can result in surprisingly efficient
solutions, while you carry on implementing the last good thought you had.

