
The real secret to Asian American success was not education - fmihaila
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/19/the-real-secret-to-asian-american-success-was-not-education/?tid=a_inl
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sctb
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12994291](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12994291)

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newswriter99
Writer says it was due to Americans being less racist towards Asians, but says
nothing as to why Americans became less racist.

Seems chicken vs. egg to me.

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matpru
The author does suggests a possible explanation here:

> Hilger found some evidence that there were underlying differences in skill.
> Between Asians and African Americans with the same amount of schooling,
> African Americans tended to achieve lower scores on military enlistment
> tests during the 1940s.

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newswriter99
But that contradicts his premise.

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rdlecler1
I didn't read the original article, but the evidence presented really doesn't
support this conclusion:

>This dramatic shift had nothing to do with Asians accruing more education.

Here's a thought experiment: It's well known that Asians attend university at
a higher proportion than any other group. So if society thinks of Asians as
smart and hard working then this stereotype, by definition, would logically
extend to individual Asians regardless of their actual education level. With
the same level of education this would put an Asian at an advantage over
someone who is Black because the later would likely face greater
discrimination than the former.

Similarly, more educated people are less likely to commit violent crimes, and
so because a large percentage of the Asian population is highly educated then
Asians in general, even those with criminal backgrounds or at-risk
backgrounds, would benefit from a positive stereotype of the non-violent
Asian.

So while there is still discrimination at play it may be that high levels of
education in a large proportion of that group could ameleorate negative
stereotypes and close the discrimination gap. This is comes back to education
and we need to do a much better job with low-income communities who are
trapped in both socio-economic a cultural cycle of poverty.

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andrewclunn
So being forced to open their own businesses due to lack of employment
(because of racism) gives credibility to the notion that declining racism is
what lead to Asian American upward mobility? I suppose Jewish bankers and
merchants, forced into those positions (which were at the time looked down
upon) were also beneficiaries of declining racism...

This article is a clear example of why so many dismiss the grey sciences as
ideology masquerading as science.

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danso
People underestimate the power of narrative to shape behavior. I grew up as a
child of Vietnam War refugees in a nearly all-white town. My grades and
achievement were good but nowhere near valedictorian-level or even enough to
get into a good private college. Yet never did I get anything but affirmation
on wanting to be an engineer or doctor or lawyer, as that was such an accepted
path for Asians. Even though it was immigrant (and relatively established and
well off) Chinese and Koreans who built that stereotype, Vietnamese and other
Johnny-come-lately Asian groups got to operate under that good-will
stereotype. Vietnamese success stories seem common enough now, but I don't
think that'd be the case if refugees were treated with the blanket suspicion
against Japanese citizens were in WW2, or just about any refugee classified as
Latino or Middle-eastern.

Reading the OP, I'm struck by how little Asian-American suffering was covered
in my school history curriculum. I remember Sacco and Vanzetti clearly, but
had never heard of the The Chinese Massacre of 1871. Even the internment of
Japanese was a relatively small footnote, mollified by the commendable heroic
sacrifice of the Nisei 442nd Regiment.

Whenever people complain about blacks or other disenfranchised "loud" groups
and point to the shining examples of Asian-American achievement, I can't help
but see the power of selection bias and bliss of ignorance. I can't speak for
all Asians, but I imagine the narrative that Asians operate under would be
much different if the injustice that Asian groups suffered were given more
focus. The upshot is that it's pretty nice growing up Asian today, when the
suffering and injustice against past Asians is wiped clean.

I'm not advocating that the solution is to whitewash history for the other
minority groups to reduce their resentment. I just think that it's wrong to
think of Asian success as some kind of conscious collective effort to "just
work hard and get along" \-- as if Asian elders got together and put a vote to
it -- rather than a forced consequence of history.

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stmfreak
If society becoming less racist toward them led to an Asian economic boom, the
black community should be rocketing upward any day now.

But I suspect rather, this author is confusing cause with effect and
attributing success to a change in attitudes toward Asians rather than
successful Asians changing attitudes toward Asians.

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albertgao
Ridiculous, after tons of non relative paragraphs, just one sentence : when
white people give you more respect, you will earn more.... Ridiculous

