
Google Maps for iPhone - rkrishnakumar
http://daringfireball.net/2012/12/google_maps_iphone
======
FireBeyond
Leave it to Gruber to try to spin this pro-Apple: "This iOS 6 mapping saga has
been a source of tremendous controversy, but here we are three months after
iOS 6 was released and iPhone users now have a better Google Maps experience
than they did when Google was providing the back-end data for the built-in
Maps app. It all worked out."

Almost like Apple planned it that way is the implication.

Except the reality is that his last sentence should end ", no thanks to
Apple".

"I consider Apple’s new Maps the better-designed app, but this new Google Maps
is very good. And Google’s advantage in search accuracy goes without saying."

You can almost hear him gritting his teeth as he types this, not quite able to
give up Apple just yet. "Apple wins (for me) in design, but everything else is
Google. But I can't bring myself to explicitly say 'this is the better app'."

~~~
Osmium
>Leave it to Gruber to try to spin this pro-Apple: "This iOS 6 mapping saga
has been a source of tremendous controversy, but here we are three months
after iOS 6 was released and iPhone users now have a better Google Maps
experience than they did when Google was providing the back-end data for the
built-in Maps app. It all worked out."

But it's true. In iOS 5 I had Google Maps but no vector tiles, no turn-by-turn
or voice navigation, and Apple tried to get Google to work with them on that
but (regardless of whose fault it was) negotiations failed. Now, here we are,
and as an iPhone user I now have a Google Maps that not only has those
features but is arguably, currently, better than the Android version(!)

Furthermore, there's now been an explosion of map apps on the app store:
Nokia's Here, Waze, etc. Competition is good. In iOS 5, there weren't viable
alternatives (or they weren't advertised?), but now I have _four_ good map
apps on my phone. And when one of them fails, and it will (even Google, which
was useless for me when I visited Japan recently) I now have several
alternatives. As a user, for me, it's a win win.

~~~
jonknee
> But it's true. In iOS 5 I had Google Maps but no vector tiles, no turn-by-
> turn or voice navigation, and Apple tried to get Google to work with them on
> that but (regardless of whose fault it was) negotiations failed. Now, here
> we are, and as an iPhone user I now have a Google Maps that not only has
> those features but is arguably, currently, better than the Android
> version(!)

The lack of innovation was exclusively Apple's fault. They neglected to update
its Google Maps powered app and decided to enter into war with Google at the
detriment to Apple customers. If Steve Jobs hadn't gone nuclear on Google, the
Maps debacle would never have happened.

> Furthermore, there's now been an explosion of map apps on the app store:
> Nokia's Here, Waze, etc. Competition is good. In iOS 5, there weren't viable
> alternatives (or they weren't advertised?), but now I have four good map
> apps on my phone. And when one of them fails, and it will (even Google,
> which was useless for me when I visited Japan recently) I now have several
> alternatives. As a user, for me, it's a win win.

Waze was released in 2009. Nokia's Here is new, but most of the others that
are popular in the store have been around quite some time. They "exploded"
because Apple shafted its user base, it wasn't because of innovation.

~~~
danilocampos
> The lack of innovation was exclusively Apple's fault. They neglected to
> update its Google Maps powered app and decided to enter into war with Google
> at the detriment to Apple customers. If Steve Jobs hadn't gone nuclear on
> Google, the Maps debacle would never have happened.

From what body cavity have you pulled this?

At this point the calculus is pretty well understood. Apple's license covered
bitmap tiles, traffic and transit routing.

Apple wanted turn-by-turn and vector maps.

Google wanted ads, prominent Google branding and _way more user data_.

Neither side would give ground. So they hit an impasse. That's it.

~~~
jonknee
> Google wanted more prominent branding and way more user data.

So yes, Apple decided that it would drop Google. They were in a tough spot,
hating Google with every breath but then relying on them for mapping, but it
was a bed that they made.

Considering that the YouTube and Google Maps applications rocketed to the top
of the store _instantly_ , do you think Apple was concerned about its users or
concerned about sticking it to Google? Apple's users want Google's
applications, Apple does not want to cooperate with Google. It's that simple.

~~~
danilocampos
> They were in a tough spot, hating Google with every breath

I think it's more likely they hated the thought of an ad-heavy maps app that
shuttled enormous volumes of their customer data to another party. Apple is an
enormous company with significant value tied up in the success of their
flagship product, the iPhone. "Hate" – or whatever emotions you're suggesting
here – might occupy the minds of leadership, but they're going to make
decisions based on what's best for the company. Clearly they thought an ad-
heavy maps app was not best.

------
jonknee
> ... here we are three months after iOS 6 was released and iPhone users now
> have a better Google Maps experience than they did when Google was providing
> the back-end data for the built-in Maps app. It all worked out.

Gruber's feats of mental gymnastics are second to none.

~~~
untog
Agreed. He talks as if the old Maps app was some kind of immovable object.
Obviously, we'll never know the details of the negotiation, but it _could_
have worked out considerably better by upgrading the old Maps app to the
current Google Maps app.

Of course, there are many reasons why that might not the case, but the
suggestion that somehow everything has worked out the best it could have
possibly done is laughable.

~~~
reidmain
I'm not sure upgrading was possible. The old maps app was actually made
entirely by Apple while this new one is made entirely by Google. I can't
imagine Apple would give a third-party a system level app. Just look at
YouTube.

The same reasons why Apple wouldn't package Google Maps with iOS are the same
reasons Google wouldn't package iTunes with Android. You don't want to concede
ground to your competition. Now if they want to fight for it that is a
entirely different story.

~~~
untog
Right. It wasn't possible for one single reason: _Apple wouldn't allow it_.
So, yes, I think it's right to blame Apple.

~~~
reidmain
Blame them for not giving ground to their competitors?

~~~
untog
Why should I, as a user, care? I had a great feature, they replaced it with a
bad one. They shouldn't have.

~~~
reidmain
Yeah if you want to divorce yourself completely from the business side of
things I understand that perspective.

I would not however expect a company to do something that would harm them just
to please me. They are a business trying to make money to survive. Doesn't
matter if it is a massive company or small startup.

EDIT: Ideally I would have like the Google app to have come out a lot quicker
than it did so the transition period was better but I'm not sure who to blame
for that. Odds are it was Apple who pulled the rug out from beneath Google's
feet during the negotiation but that is all here-say and conjecture. Probably
10 years from now we'll read in some book how shit went down.

~~~
revelation
The business side of things? The business side of things is people paying
premium money to Apple for what they expect to be a premium experience.

~~~
reidmain
And for the most part I've got that. I can count on one hand the number of bad
experiences I've had with Apple products. I also guess I lucked out a bit
because the iOS 6 maps worked fine for me but I do live in Canada's largest
city so that is probably a factor.

I've converted dozens of people over to Apple and no one has complained that
they should have gone to Android or stayed with Windows.

------
toksaitov
Google wins, Apple wins, users win (not right after the release of iOS 6, but
still). In general, the decision to remove the old Maps app was good.

~~~
baddox
And everything could have been avoided by Apple choosing to wait a few months
(or, more realistically, by working with Google starting much earlier) to make
sure a Google Maps app was on the market when iOS 6 was released.

~~~
sigzero
Since you really have no idea what the negotiation breakdowns were you really
have no idea if any of what you stated was true.

~~~
justizin
We do know that Google started pushing ads into Maps API results in such a way
that had nothing to do with any negotiations with Apple, unless they fucked
_everyone_ by intentionally cutting quality data to Apple users.

Google makes money off of us primarily by selling our data, in one way or
another. Apple makes money off of us by selling us phones, primarily.

One of those companies (Apple) was dedicated to keeping the customer
experience positive and found themselves with few options. The other (Google)
took an action that harmed customers they shared with Apple, to hurt Apple.

I know who I want to keep doing business with, as Google begins to close the
Android ecosystem and people tend to forget that a significant core portion of
iOS is open-source, just like OSX. I doubt Android will continue to be much
more open.

------
kirinan
I don't have an issue with signing in with my Google Creds because I get
direct benefit. It saves all my searches, and can quickly pull up previous
searches (unsure if the App does this already). and can auto fill the fields.
When typing on a virtual keyboard (which cripples me compared to a slide out),
things that allow me to reduce typing make me happy.

~~~
untog
It does seem a little hypocritical when the _entire iPhone_ requires you to
sign in with an Apple account. You think they're not tracking search data in
the Maps app?

~~~
czhiddy
How so? You can use the phone just fine without an Apple account - you just
won't be able to download any apps. Bookmarks in Maps works without having to
sign into anything.

~~~
untog
Last time I bought an iPhone I had to activate it with an Apple account as
soon as I turned it on. Maybe that's changed.

~~~
reidmain
It has always been an option. If you get your phone activated in store it is
working the moment you walk out with no input on the customers part.

------
Steko
I don't use nav apps daily like many do but it seems to be a given that most
heavy users will move to Google Maps as their permanent solution. This can
only bring more and more focus onto iOS's most glaring weakness: the lack of
contracts/intents/services. If the next version of iOS doesn't have it I think
you will see jailbreaking go mainstream.

~~~
reidmain
Jailbreaking will never go mainstream. It has never been easy and/or safe
enough for that. Just like how a small percentage of Android users root their
phones.

However "remote controllers" in iOS 6 are definitely the precursor to the
Android intents. It will be interesting to see if they make it into iOS 7 as a
public API.

~~~
Steko
"Jailbreaking will never go mainstream"

My understanding is that it's already mainstream for carriers to jailbreak
phones for customers in many countries.

~~~
reidmain
Really? I think you mean unlocking. Carriers are usually content producers and
jailbreaking is mostly done for piracy reasons so I'd be surprised if carriers
are onboard.

~~~
Steko
Maybe I meant "that guy at the phone shop". My understanding is that
jailbroken phones are widespread in, e.g. China.

