
If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed - tuxguy
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/02/04/689747637/if-youre-often-angry-or-irritable-you-may-be-depressed
======
GlenTheMachine
This was precisely my wife's symptoms when we were first married. She was
angry nearly all the time. She could hold it together in public, but at home
it was miserable. She would go a full day at a time, alternatively not
speaking, stomping around and throwing things, and yelling.

It took a long time for her to be correctly diagnosed. It wasn't clear to me
that depression was the issue, because as discussed in the article, anger
isn't usually associated with depression. And it wasn't clear to her either,
because in her mind all of her anger was justified. Most of it was my fault.

I had to keep telling myself that, no, it wasn't my fault. I wish I had had a
support group or something but I didn't know that such things existed.

Happily, she did eventually find a doctor who worked with her to get a correct
diagnosis and figure out the right meds (in her case, a specific SSRI. But
everyone is different). She is a thousand percent better now - she's back to
being the woman I married. But without diagnosis and treatment, we would not
be married today.

If you have frequent anxiety attacks accompanied by anger, violent or not,
_definitely_ consider depression as a possible cause. If you are living with
someone with these symptoms, get yourself some support. If your partner's
anger turns to violence, for your own wellbeing, leave. Even if you are a man,
abused spouse centers should help you.

~~~
agumonkey
One thing I learned on my own is that it's very easy to lose track of what
'normal' is. You slip slowly into different spectrum of emotions without
really knowing why. When your mind is not at peace, stress/struggle will leak
out in any shape be it anger, negativity, somatic onset (psoriasis, spasms) ..

I believe strongly that we ought to aim for positivity and if we recognize
something's not right, acknowledge it, and don't accept it as an absolute
unquestionable reality.

~~~
GlenTheMachine
My layperson's understanding of depression is that it's your brain lying to
you. My wife's perception of things that happened to her were often 180
degrees different from mine. She would take compliments I would give her,
process them through the “depression” filter, and they would come out the
other end as insults. You could actually watch it happen; there was a
perceptible mental lag as the filters worked. To this day, her memory of those
times is very different from mine.

It's not just that you lose track of normal, although that is certainly true.
But it's also that you can't trust your own sensory perceptions. You are
viewing the world through distorting lenses.

~~~
TrevorJ
I've noticed that (warning: gross generalization incoming) women seem to
communicate differently, on average, and tend to read _between_ the lines to
see if there is any hidden or implied meaning in a statement (negative or
positive). Basically, there's an entire side channel of deeper communication
that I'm much less capable of decoding or using.

------
ganzuul
I have had to deal with inexplicable anger and irritability for a long time.
It is possible this traces back to being misdiagnosed and prescribed 5
antibiotic recipes back-to-back as a child.

Long and tedious story short, when I cut milk, gluten/short carbs/whatever
pesticide they use for wheat, and excess sugar from e.g. prefabbed food from
my diet I gained 10kg and my life basically turned around. Turns out having
your gut constantly inflamed is bad for your mental health.

I have missed so many opportunities because of this. It's not right.

ED: Apparently I need to point out that one possible cause may be that
antibiotics killed the gut bacteria I needed to process milk, wheat and sugar.
If so, this malady could be solved with a less revolting alternative to fecal
transplants.

~~~
gabriel34
mental health and gut bacteria seem to be heavily correlated. Anecdotally, if
I don't eat sugary "reward" food I tend to feel better. That is also why I
adopted intermittent fasting. I tend to fell better mentally if I fast 24h
once a week.

~~~
webmobdev
How exactly do you fast? Is it like the extreme fasting of muslims where you
don't eat or drink anything from dawn to dusk, or is it like the hindu fasting
where you only eat fruits and vegetables?

~~~
gabriel34
water and coffee only, from dinner to dinner

~~~
webmobdev
If I remember right, drinking coffee causes your body to lose water faster -
so drinking coffee and water seem kind of contradictory.

~~~
Anthony-G
While caffeine is a mild diuretic, it’s a myth that drinking coffee (or tea)
causes dehydration – something I only learned in the last year or two. The BBC
has a decent article on this topic:
[http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140402-are-coffee-and-
tea-...](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140402-are-coffee-and-tea-
dehydrating)

------
avgDev
The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get
depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong.

Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess
there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing
terrible things, especially when in a group.

I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I
learn more and live longer my outlook on the world gets worse. I did therapy,
it was nice to talk about things I would not bring up with friends/SO.

I tried meds but side-effects generally suck and the whole medical industry in
the US raises my blood pressure.

Edit: I would still encourage anyone feeling unhappy/depressed to try all the
options meds/therapy/meditation/w.e before accepting defeat.

~~~
ryanstorm
Your comment aligns with an old HN comment that I have saved that resonated
with me:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402387](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402387)

I'd also recommend people feeling this way to read The Happiness Hypothesis by
Jonathan Haidt. It helped me.

~~~
solarkraft
Thanks for sharing this comment. I do have a bit of trouble with the last
paragraph. Am I understanding correctly that the author claims depression is
neccessary for building a better model of the world?

I'm sure depression has caused me to think about things and get a better
understanding of them, but is it neccessary? What am I currently building a
better model of?

~~~
guntars
In the beginning the author of the comment said that a broken model results in
a loss of confidence which then prevents us from acting on that model and
forces us to figure out a better one. They're saying that's what depression is
- the downtime when you're supposed to play it safe and re-analyze the data
and build a better fitting model. I can see how it can be better to not act on
a broken model in case it could result in some harm, but it also stops us from
gathering new data that might be important.

------
alangpierce
This certainly agrees with my experience. I've had a number of cases in the
past where I'm feeling low/depressed at work and tend to get more frustrated,
e.g. annoyed with some policy or some design decision or some detail about the
code that I'm working with. It's a bit counterintuitive that sadness and
lowness would do that, but it seems to be a pretty clear pattern.

After a number of cases of expressing that frustration and regretting it
later, I've set a rule for myself that I should mostly keep my mouth shut if
I'm feeling depressed. If I do want to follow up, I should just write down my
thoughts and talk through the issue later when I'm feeling better. Fortunately
I'm pretty good these days about being aware of when I'm feeling depressed.

------
grawprog
Ya...I figured this out a while ago. I figure it's because it's easier to be
angry than depressed, at least in the short term. When you're angry it feels
like you're doing something, even if you're not. It takes your energy and
attention away from whatever is making you depressed(likely something that
can't really be changed easily) and focusses it on something tangible you can
lash out at.

I've come to learn over the years it doesn't really help and you end up
feeling worse after because you add on the regret about whatever you did when
you were mad to the already existent depresseion and it ends up building up
and continuing in a cycle that gets worse. The more angry you get, the more
depressed you get which in turn makes you more angry next time.

This is what i've kind of learned over the years. I've also found I regret
just about every decision i've ever made while angry.

------
twodave
My personal challenges with anger/depression came from attempts to escape
reality. It started out as a way to spend my down time (video games). Then
over time it became what I looked forward to doing. I would skip outings with
friends and ignore my family in favor of playing games. Then it morphed into
other forms of impulsive behavior.

After about 20 years (2/3 of my life to that point) I had become an extremely
selfish and self-centered person. I would feel empty, so I'd go do something
selfish to make myself feel better. But it only lasted for the moment.
Afterwards I'd feel upset that I wasted all my time but also not want to quit.
So I'd be angry about it and the anger didn't just stay inside. I'd take it
out on those who were preventing me from returning to my cave (family mostly).

The big turning point to me was my faith. My addictions (which were various)
had put me into a marital and even existential crisis. I basically had to hit
rock bottom (and bounce a couple times). I had to be faced with fighting for
everything I loved.

Every single day is a struggle, depressed or not. I am always a few breaths
away from going back down the rabbit hole. What a wretched man I am. There's
no "cure" for me in this life I don't think, but giving up the fight can be
deadly and hurt a lot of people I love, so I choose to fight.

~~~
uneasy-sausage
Have you cut out some of the compulsive habits/actions such as binging video
games?

~~~
twodave
Yeah, as far as video games, occasionally I will install something on my phone
or whatever but I’ve found I either don’t enjoy them anymore because they feel
too much like work, or else they wreck me pretty quickly and I end up just
ripping the band aid off by uninstalling.

Some of the other habits have been easier. For instance I quit drinking over 5
years ago and haven’t looked back. Still other habits have proven way more
difficult and I continue to battle them.

------
rhspeer
Yup, this was me for 18 years. Doctor had me fixed in about 45 minutes.

Massive life improvement all around.

Feel dumb about waiting 18 years, so I talk about it to break down the stigma
associated with mental health.

~~~
onemoresoop
How did your doctor had you fixed in 45 minutes?

~~~
rhspeer
Well I took a written survey about my symptoms answered some questions. Doc
said my brain did not produce enough of something and wrote me a script.

She's a funny old lady and was hilarious about how she liked these pills
because it did not effect my _funny hand gestures here_.

I was sceptical, but took half a pill as she instructed. Next thing I know I
am eating a sandwich at chick-fill-a not hating Chick-fil-A people thinking
normal is going to be EASY.

I kept taking half pills a week longer that instructed because the positivity
was a bit much to take.

I accidentally took 2 pills a couple times and I feel so positive I annoy
myself.

If I forget a pill the old familiar negativity and muscle pain in my shoulders
comes back.

I do still dislike Chick-fil-A people.

~~~
onemoresoop
Make sure you educate yourself on what those pills you're taking do and follow
through a treatment, not just take them indefinitely.

~~~
rhspeer
I recognize the good intentions of your comment.

However, I want to push back a bit. I was depressed, but not from trauma. I
avoided going to the doc to avoid long term prescription drug use and therapy.
I regret that decision, and it cost me career opportunities and damaged
relationships.

It is a legitimate concern, but wildly overstated in my mind for 18 tough
years.

------
ksec
Assuming a product person ( e.g Steve Jobs ) is easily Angry and Irritable
with crap ( Which there are lots of it ), would that considered as depressed?
Where do we draw a line where some body just have very high standard to
everything ( Perfectionist ) or they actually have bipolar disorder.

~~~
ashleyn
I've known many people who have Jobsian tendencies. They don't have
depression, just a low tolerance for bullshit.

~~~
ergothus
> just a low tolerance for bullshit.

How about "just a low tolerance for what they perceive as bullshit"?

It seems many such people perceive things like manners, respect for other
people, and anything that doesn't push their personal current priority as
"bullshit".

~~~
tabtab
How you deliver unpleasant news matters. You will be shunned and bad-mouthed
if you don't find amiable ways to deliver unpleasant information. The author
Dale Carnegie was mostly right; I'm just the messenger. ("How to Win Friends
and Influence Others.")

------
rmason
I'm not sure they're right. As a man at least when you get to a certain age
you lose the filter. I saw it in my dad and now I see it in myself.

When you're younger bosses might BS you but you don't know it. When you get
older you know it but feel helpless in doing anything about it. You reach a
certain age and you call people on it. That might be one reason in tech that
they don't want older employees. Being freer is tied to age, not depression.

~~~
User23
One of the best things I've noticed about aging is no longer caring what other
people think. Some of this is due to having built some financial security, but
I believe there is more to it than that.

~~~
geoelectric
Speaking as aging dude who largely doesn't care what other people think, some
of it comes from financial security.

However, I'd say some comes down to being more assured in my beliefs that my
positions are reasonable places to start, if not always right. Some comes down
to understanding exactly how little it matters what other people think of you
in most contexts, and trying to only manage the contexts where that's not
true.

All of that can go sideways in a way that you won't necessarily catch until
damage done, which leads to the third realization with age: there's very
little damage you can do once that can't be repaired. Most irreparable damage
comes from you repeatedly convincing someone you're a jerk, assuming you don't
completely turn them off on first impression.

None of which is to say you should lead by being an ass when you get old, just
that I don't worry about impressions so much anymore unless it's strategic.
Micromanaging them never got me anywhere, better to confidently try something
reasonable then pick up the pieces if I'm off base. That's gotten me way
further.

------
pbhjpbhj
Or tired?

Both lead to unwarranted angry outbursts IME.

~~~
dspillett
Tired can be a consequence of depressed, or many other things, so this could
be an indirect (even cyclical) reaction.

I'm a tad bipolar. When I have an angry manic the cause is direct, but when I
have a "happy manic" that lasts for an appreciable time angry is soon to
follow too, I think mainly because I can't sleep well in that state. When I'm
down I sleep, in fact sometimes practically hibernate, but it often isn't
useful/refreshing sleep so again anger comes from that.

------
teh_infallible
This rings true to me. My ex was often angry, and would eventually start
taking that anger out on me. Then she went on antidepressants, and became much
more pleasant to live with, and easier to talk to. Then she went off them
again and we broke up :)

------
ohiovr
A long time ago before I was treated for bipolar disorder I found my
depression was related to anger turned inward at myself. But others I have
talked to didn’t always relate this way as I did with depression.

~~~
webmobdev
If you mean inward anger = self-loathing / self-hatred, you are right as
that's a common symptom of depression too.

~~~
ohiovr
Exactly what I had :)

------
vonnik
Depression expresses itself in a lot of unexpected ways. While severe
depression can lead to the symptoms Hollywood has introduced us to -- total
inertia, not getting out of bed, etc. -- somewhat milder but chronic versions
include anxiety, low-intensity anger, disturbed sleep and appetite, among many
other things.

------
sjg007
This is timely for me. I think anger is a precursor to tiredness, the eventual
feeling of helplessness, and definitely an early warning.

------
seancoleman
It took me years to recognize that irritability and anger were actually latent
side effects of coffee consumption, and related to increased anxiety.

I'm curious, has anyone else experienced this and found success with cutting
out caffeine?

~~~
munchhausen
Yeah, caffeine gives me a short fuse like nothing else.

As little as a coffee in the morning would basically make me prone to fly off
the handle due to the most insignificant, trivial little things. Cost me and
my wife many hours spent in pointless discussions and unnecessary arguments.

Don't get me wrong, I love coffee, but I have to treat it like you would a
recreational drug. Only to be enjoyed when the set and the setting is right.

------
amriksohata
Is there any data available for those more likely to be depressed ouf of these
or similar categories:

1) Atheists 2) Creationists (of all religions) 3) Non practicising
creationists (of all religions)

I'm not promoting any of the above here but I would like to see if there is
any correlation between those who believe in a higher purpose and whether they
are less or more likely to feel existential depression as they feel there is a
reason to be here vs just being here to procreate because of evolution.

~~~
ggm
Stoicism feels like the best path out for a depressed athiest. "Best of all
possible worlds" but without the theism

------
crescentfresh
> irritability — a reduced control over one's temper that results in angry
> outbursts — is listed as a core symptom of depression for children and
> adolescents

There are a lot of "this is me" comments ITT. Can anyone touch on their
experience of anger/temper as a result of depression in their children or even
in themselves as a child? I didn't realize there was established research on
depression symptoms in children. I always associated it with
"sadness"/darkness and feelings of worthlessness that the [adult] mind can
suffer.

I have two wonderful boys. The youngest always had a bit of a tendency to
overreact/outburst on little things. For example he'll lose/die in a video
game and just utterly lose his mind. Since my ex and I separated when he was 5
things have been the same and I never connected that it may be due to
depression. Maybe he has been carrying this for a long time.

------
Avshalom
"hey, those of you with depression, did it make you angry at everything and
did anti depressants help" was the question I asked the day I finally started
getting help.

(I was in the middle of almost getting fired over a dress code violation as
entry level retail)

I don't know if the help has really helped over the long term but recognizing
that incandescent rage at people saying 'good morning' to me as a sign of an
incoming down swing has at least helped me keep an eye on myself.

------
hateful
Clinical Depression is often caused by a chemical imbalance, usually
serotonin. It isn't being "sad" and doesn't usually have root cause in a
certain event or direct emotion - though those things can trigger the already
existing issue.

We have to remember that the term Depression in this sense doesn't mean what
it means in the common sense. Just like words like "Theory" have different
meanings in the common vernacular.

It's closer to Anxiety than it is to Sadness.

~~~
ben_jones
There's a lot of evidence against the industry standard "Serotonin deficiency"
being the silver bullet that can be, guess what, cured by buying a pill from
$BIG_PHARMA.

------
narrator
You might also have a personality disorder, but people don't want to hear that
because you can't really treat those.

------
drugme
Or people are just piling up on you.

------
anon2567578
Does this new information, namely that depression can cause anger, change the
advice for distinguishing between depression and burnout?

I.e.

Burnout: no energy for specific thing or things eg work, but plenty of
inspiration for other things

Depression: no energy for anything?

------
Tomte
There is another aspect that may sound ludicrous, but I think also plays a
role: If I go to the doctor and say I may have depression because I'm angry
and vindictive, he may dismiss me not as a depressive, but as an asshole.

Mental health is hard, in part because you can diagnose[1] it even less than
many physical ailments.

I have a cut on my finger and I can't stop the bleeding and OMG all the blood?
Emergency room! (And please don't ask how long I pondered whether I should go,
because it's not exactly a big wound).

My leg isn't looking straight and it hurts like hell? Call an ambulance!

I don't feel well? What now?

[1] I don't mean come to a definitive diagnosis what illness this is in Latin
medical terms, but a simple answer to "is something wrong – and sufficiently
wrong to see a doctor?"

------
gprasanth
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contentment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contentment)

------
epx
That's how I discovered my own depression.

------
renholder
TIL that my irritablness/brashness is rooted in my depression. Feck.

------
hema_n
It is really helpful.

------
randomacct3847
Isn’t there a pos correlation between intelligence and depresssion

------
vijay_n
Social media's are a catalyst to depression!

------
mongol
Could also be too much coffee.

------
thecatspaw
Whilw the gdpr text version is an applaudable step by npr, I wish they didnt
link to their frontpage.

Can someone link it?

~~~
isp
[https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=689747637](https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=689747637)

The URL is
[https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=<SID>](https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=<SID>),
where <SID> is in the original URL here: www.npr.org/sections/health-
shots/<YEAR>/<MONTH>/<DAY>/<SID>/<SLUG>

------
LinuxBender
I am not depressed, but I am often annoyed by the idiots that won't stop
staring at their phones when getting onto or off of the elevator. I can be
annoyed without being depressed. I am not related to these ding-dongs, so it's
only their progeny that should be depressed.

~~~
coleifer
I definitely get that, too. I pull up at the stoplight next to a lady in the
other car, she's on facebook, looking at pictures and videos of other people.
I want to shout, "hey, what the fuck? Wake up." And then I think about her as
a person. With needs, desires, fears. A complete person, just as much as I'm a
complete person. The initial reaction softens and I have compassion for her
because we're the same.

~~~
LinuxBender
My personality is a bit different than yours. For right or wrong, I used to
think like that, then I realized I was allowing people to walk all over me. I
no longer allow such shenanigans and I feel 500% better for it.

~~~
coleifer
Yeah, I have a suspicious streak (paranoid? I don't know, maybe?), too. That
comes with a deep fear of being taken advantage of, a fear of being a sucker,
a mark, a rube, whatever. I am mistrustful of other people's motives, and
assume the worst.

What has counteracted that tendency, which I think may be partly innate,
partly learned (a paranoia spectrum?), is two things: 1) the only reason
anybody _ever_ wants to tear me down is to build themselves up, and having
been guilty of that myself, I can have compassion for them, and 2) I have
found that I can put _faith_ in the universe that, so long as I do the right
thing, I go to bed with a sense of dignity and am not so afraid. That's not to
say I don't have boundaries. I can have boundaries without taking it
personally when others cross them, though.

