

Ask HN: Why do jr developer positions require so much? - devcheese

I thought the point of being in a JR developer position was to get a job with limited experience and continue to learn while working. I&#x27;ve been in a job search lately and checking out these Jr Developer positions, they require so much! Some require bachelors degrees, 3-5 years in web development, experience with quite a few languages. I can&#x27;t tell if this is really what Jr Developer positions require or if these companies are trying to save some money by paying little for the same experience.
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chrisbennet
My theory is that JR+lots of requirements means "We want talent but we don't
want to pay for it. Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask..."

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atmosx
I am afraid that you are spot on. Knowing 5 stacks on 3 different languages is
hardly newbie material.

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Someone1234
Junior and senior is related to responsibility and pay, not skill level. It is
also worth noting that a job advert is a list of their "ideal" requirements,
so if you don't meet them try applying anyway (or just claim you've been
developing in your own time for "years").

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CyberFonic
A PHB's idea of junior is somebody who jumps up, salutes and does as he is
told. And is content with getting paid peanuts. Gen Y need not apply.

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cblock811
I took my first two jobs at crap pay because I just wanted to learn somewhere.
I'm Gen Y. Not sure if you were trying to start another bs "This generation is
entitled rabble rabble" argument..

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jewel
For me at least, it's because those without a few years of experience aren't
going to be able to be productive enough to be worth their pay. In fact, even
if money isn't an issue, they can add more workload to the senior members of
the team in mentoring and bug-fixing time. This might be partially because web
development changes so fast. It's unlikely that someone with a degree but no
real-world experience is going to be productive without (optimistically) a few
months of training.

Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly hire someone who has done her own side-projects
that show initiative and ability to teach herself, even if she wasn't through
school yet.

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VOYD
Plus there is some experience that you just can't get until you are part of
bigger (i.e. "enterprise level") projects, and you've learned a lot of the
"gotchas" that come along with that.

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lsiebert
That's why, in part I'm spending some of my time in between job hunting
working on contributing to an OS project, not because I'm going to be learning
the latest django or javascript idiom so I can hit the ground running, or
detailed algorithms for solving a complex problem, but because working with
teams is a soft skill that takes time to develop. Also I use the project
everyday.

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MalcolmDiggs
As developers, I think our collective definition of "junior" and "senior" is
very different than in most professions.

In other industries (think electricians, welders, doctors, attorneys, etc)
you'd still be very "junior" if you only had 3 years experience.

And my theory is that a lot of HR and Executive folks are trained to think
that way; they just haven't bought into our way of seeing things...and they
don't necessarily appreciate how quickly things change in this industry; and
how quickly people can up their skill-set to senior levels.

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brudgers
With the exception of welders, the other trades you mention are all licensed
professions. In the case of welders, serious work requires certification and
gets inspected to reduce the chance that someone dies.

A runaway online shopping cart can't crush a child. It's more the case of
lower standards in software.

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CyberFonic
But the same lax standards are used by the likes of Toyota when developing
software for their ECUs - now that has resulted in crashes and fatalities,
see: [http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-
killer...](http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer-
firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences)

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alain94040
That's why during college you need to work on some external projects
(internship, open source, it doesn't matter, as long as you build "free"
experience).

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lsiebert
Which assumes that you majored in CS for your bachelor's degree. And could
afford to go to college.

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jotux
Job posting "requirements" are almost always wishlists and you should treat
them that way.

