
I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb - fieryscribe
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43k7z3/nationwide-fake-host-scam-on-airbnb
======
elchupanebre
Here is another scam that someone tried to pull on me.

I booked a place in Reno a week in advance. On the night before check-in at
about 2am I got a text from the host asking me to increase the price of stay
by $20. That was small and I did not want the hassle of arguing but just
decided to leave it till morning. In the morning I looked at it again on
computer (as opposed to the phone) and saw something odd: the dates of stay we
crossed and replaced by the exact same dates. Then I saw that weekdays were
off. Then it dawned on me that the scammer changed the dates of stay to the
next year and added $20 just to distract me.

The scam is simple. The scammer lists the same property twice with ~30%
difference in price using slightly different photos and descriptions. The
cheaper one goes first. If he books it at the higher price he kicks out the
first renters with the "next year booking" scam. Reading reviews made it quite
clear.

I reported the scammer to AirBnB, got a refund + $100 but they did not do
anything other than $100 fine to the scammer. The crook makes more than that
from a single scam. AirBnB just does not care.

Pecunia non olet.

~~~
jancsika
That is such an elegant scam. It's like a magic trick complete with
misdirection.

Is there market where HN-type people come up with these and sell them to
people to implement?

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
You can't make a business of an honest marketplace based on selling services
only to dishonest people. Eventually your own customers will ruin the
business.

This is the fundamental reason "Organized Crime" always fails in the end.

~~~
qazpot
I don't think it is true that Organized Crime fails in the end. OC
organizations like Cosa Nostra , Yakuza, Triads and many others are not
disappearing any time soon.

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
Look closer at what you are calling "organizations". I would just call that an
Industry. The individuals and businesses (Families) fail at a rapid rate. Just
because they are replaced by other businesses in the same industry, doesn't
mean that criminal organizations are successful in terms of longevity.

There are some notable exceptions in the Yakuza, but I would argue even those
fit the pattern because the most successful Yakuza are working in grey areas
and aren't fully engaging in illegal actives.

------
julienchastang
There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people
reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in
many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable
family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are
all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes
for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends up grouchy. Plus when you travel
with children, it is really nice to have a kitchen and a way to do laundry. At
any rate, my observation for all my AirBnb stays is most of them are quite
nice. Many hosts go to great lengths to have their guests have a nice stay.
There have been a few crappy experiences, but not many. The main downside for
me concerning AirBnb is it takes a long time to analyze the listings to find
quality accommodations.

~~~
gesman
>> The main downside for me concerning AirBnb is it takes a long time to
analyze the listings to find quality accommodations.

In my view this is major. To describe it better - need to read "between the
lines" of misleading representations of properties.

Lots of property owners goes to great extends to make property look way
better, bigger, nicer than it really is and to conceal obvious negative points
that become apparent even before you are given the keys. Then the list goes
on.

AirBnb expects and encourages misrepresentation of properties and misleading
descriptions to stimulate cash flow. Try to get refund from AirBnb for
misprepresentation or deliberate omissions of negative points.

~~~
dfxm12
How is this different from a hotel? From rentals in general?

I guess you know what you're going to get if you're staying at a national
chain that you've stayed at before, but there's not always one available or in
your budget.

~~~
Jd
HotelTonight (sadly recently purchased by AirBnB) has a very robust review
system and a very responsive customer support system. If you ever have a bad
experience in a hotel room while booking through their app you can always
contact them and they will contact hotel management and the problem will
almost always very quickly be resolved.

Booking.com has way more properties but does not always properly vet them. Its
easy to find that you've booked a property but the property owner is miles
away and does not speak your language (i.e. English). That said, their
customer service often resolves things.

In my limited impression Airbnb has gotten better at customer service but has
basically pivoted out of their core business model (i.e. providing short term
stays) and at the same time provided huge incentives for people to mislead
people with respect to the listing. They are consistently the hardest to
verify (i.e. that what you are reading or seeing is real) and I would really
only use them for very boutique properties that can't be found on other
platforms.

In some ways it just depends on how much up front time you have to do your own
vetting and how much risk you are willing to tolerate for a potentially
experience. AirBnb is high in both categories with results that very rarely
are worth it to me.

~~~
modelica
HotelTonight always had awful customer support. They sold me a hotel room
during February fashion week in NYC. Some sort of mistake happened with either
HT or the hotel, and the room was not available upon my 11pm arrival.

Rather than fix the mistake, HotelTonight gave me back my $400/night or
whatever it was, and left me in a city, in the winter cold, where hotel rooms
were almost entirely sold out. Essentially no inventory available on-line, and
nearly all of that was not actually bookable.

After a few hours searching (I had to actually call hotels to verify that the
listed rooms still existed), I ended up spending ~ $1400/night for one of the
only rooms left in the entire city.

Fuck HotelTonight. A total piece of shit company.

~~~
thw0rted
The good news is that now there's a simple solution: if this happens in the
future, you book a $200 Uber helicopter, $100-200 room at the airport, then
another helicopter back in the morning, and you save ~$700. Easy! :D

------
yason
The late cancellation by host without no specific penalties seems to be one of
the most prevalent yet disturbing elements in this.

The one who's travelling has the weakest odds of all. The traveler will be in
a foreign place with no place to stay. In contrast, the host has no losing
cards except some income. The rules should, thus, have been written to protect
the traveler at the expense of the host because the host can take more hits
from bad luck than the traveler.

If the host really needs to cancel they should have to put the traveler in a
real hotel as an upgrade to remove all doubt of the traveler getting into a
place that could be worse. They have already received the money from the
traveler so they only need to pay for the difference. Just cancelling late
without any particular reason could be done but at a very high cost. And if
the host's place did burn down for real then a few hundred extra to pay for
the guest's hotel for a few nights will surely be a negligent cost.

~~~
tasssko
I wouldn’t want anyone picking a hotel for me. I might appreciate if the host
calls a few hotels to see which ones have space but I want the final say. My
perspective has been that “when I use Airbnb I always have a plan b”. I do. I
don’t negotiate, if the listing has issues or was miss-sold I walk out and
activate my plan b. Airbnb will always refund if you do it like that.

~~~
kieckerjan
So what kind of plan B are you talking about?

~~~
Fomite
I often have a cancelable hotel reservation on hand.

~~~
ghaff
Fewer and fewer hotel reservations let you cancel until 6pm day of though like
they used to. More and more cancelable reservations want 24, 48, or even 72
hours these days.

~~~
bvandewalle
and they removed the 6PM same day cancellation because they realized they
became increasingly the "plan B" for a lot of Airbnbs.

------
herodotus
There is a larger problem here: there seems to be no way to hold these big
internet companies to account for misrepresenting their product offerings. For
example, some time ago, someone on HN reported on a plagiarized Python book
for sale on Amazon. ([https://www.amazon.com/Python-Programming-Beginner-
Intermedi...](https://www.amazon.com/Python-Programming-Beginner-Intermediate-
Advanced-ebook/dp/B07N4QDH92)). I emailed the author of the original
book,(October 4) because Amazon have a form that allows authors to report
plagiarism. This is what he replied to me:

"Thank you for your note. Someone else discovered this and notified me three
weeks ago. I went to the Amazon copyright infringement webpage and filled out
the form. The automated email told me to expect a formal response in 1-2
business days. That was three weeks ago, and I’m still waiting."

So Amazon have, for more than a month, been told that they are selling a
stolen book. And yet the listing is still there.

Now if I reported that my local bricks-and-mortar second-hand store was
selling my stolen TV set, I'll bet that the police would be there pretty
quickly. But Amazon and BnB can sell stolen goods or misrepresent offerings
with impunity. This is not right.

~~~
rahimnathwani
"Now if I reported that my local bricks-and-mortar second-hand store was
selling my stolen TV set"

Yes, but an analogous situation here would be if your local bricks-and-mortar
store were selling a TV that looked and worked just like yours, but was made
by a different company.

What (if anything) do you expect your local police would do if you reported
that?

~~~
Marsymars
In America, it seems the FBI would the appropriate place to report counterfeit
goods at a brick-and-mortar retailer, not the local police.

------
chadlavi
There are also some smaller-time scams hosts run. I was forced to pay a three-
figure cleaning fee by an AirBnB in DC earlier this year because they claimed
I left a stain on their couch -- which I never even sat on (also, I was by
myself, so it's not as though another one of my guests did something to it). I
appealed and asked for photos of the supposed stain, but they ghosted me and
in the end AirBnB ruled in their favor and automatically charged my credit
card for the amount.

~~~
wholepointofcc
Try calling your Credit Card company and flag it as fraud. That's what I would
do. That failing I'd submit a police report.

~~~
itake
That doesn't work well b/c then Airbnb just bans you from the platform

~~~
random42
Why would you continue to give airbnb your business, once experiencing
something like that anyways?

~~~
ses1984
Because the expected value of using the platform is still greater despite the
known risks?

~~~
chippy
over $1000 lost is still greater value?

~~~
gmanley
Where are you getting $1000 from? He says 3 figure so it's in the hundreds,
I'm assuming lower. Everyone has there point where they'd be fine burning the
bridge. To me the ability to get a place quickly with an app from anywhere has
a good amount of value, but I'd have trouble putting an exact price on it.

~~~
bufferoverflow
Read the article. He paid $1,221 plus for the new last-minute hotel. Got
refunded $399.

------
vizzah
I stopped using AirBnb. Their customer service on a number of occasions made
it apparent they are not going to deal with hosts who have fake and outdated
pictures and ruin other guest's stays. It seems hosts are the only side of the
equation AirBnb folks care about.

Airbnb let the host write a review on us for the stay which we didn't even
take, as when we arrived in the apartment it was in a such appalling state,
dirty, broken - we had to spend 4 hours inside while looking for the
replacement and trying to convince Airbnb this apartment is inhabitable based
on their T&Cs. Yes, we managed that but couldn't find an adequate replacement
for the same money and had to move into the hotel. At the same time, Airbnb
let the host write a super-negative review about us for not taking this
apartment and _never sent an invitation_ to myself to write my own review. I
could not even image it is possible to write reviews for cancelled stays! I
was left with negative review and ruined stay just because the host could care
less and because Airbnb protects hosts first and foremost.

Guess what? Most of non-scam non-inhabitable properties listed on Airbnb are
almost always available on other sites, including a well-known booking site.
Where you pay and receive service and have means to complain or at least write
a review without the fear of being reviewed back for something you are not
even at fault.

I had 23 positive reviews and that one last negative. When I later tried to
book an apartment and started asking a few questions to host (have to be
fastidious with the choice as I often stay for 2-3 weeks, so need to ensure
there is no construction works around..etc) - the host has referred to my last
negative review and told me I won't be welcome. And that was that proverbial
straw.

~~~
ilikehurdles
I still browse AirBnb's listings on occasion, but the last few trips have
ended up booking directly with hotels, Lodges/Inns/BnBs, or vacation rental
companies. When taking a look at the _true_ prices, inclusive of fees, and
what level of property I get for them today, Airbnb often comes out much more
expensive for comparative properties. I might still have better experiences in
less touristy locations than the ones I travel to. Not to mention the
ridiculously strict long-term cancellation policies Airbnb allows hosts to
apply that wouldn't fly in any other style of vacation housing.

I loved the service back in the early twenty-teens, but I had a strikingly bad
experience with a home I tried to book in Boston.

The owner found out her home listing had rats a few days prior to check-in,
and admitted to not being able to get rid of them fully before the date,
leaving the possibility of rats getting poisoned/killed by the traps she set
up. All of the communication was via @airbnb.com emails I had responded to,
but Airbnb's support couldn't find any records of these messages. It took
multiple calls and entirely too much effort to get an eventual refund plus a
tiny credit on their site -- not nearly enough to book a replacement property
that close to the date anywhere within city limits.

Meanwhile, like I mentioned, the prices of properly licensed and managed
vacation options have become competitive with Airbnb while offering more
reliable and flexible wrt date changes and cancellations.

~~~
01010001
This is also my experience, I find Airbnb to be more expensive and not cheaper
than booking through their competition and often times the same property will
be listed on Airbnb but 15% cheaper on HomeAway.

This summer I made a trip to Spain where we ended up staying on a 4 star hotel
with breakfast on the beach we wanted for what would have costed to rent a
house of similar feel.

------
bluedevil2k
I've run into a scam recently on AirBNB and several situations that ended up
screwing me over. The scam was after booking a nice place in Orlando, Florida
for a week through my wife's AirBNB account. The day after booking, the
"owner" sent an email saying that they required a photograph of the front and
back of her credit card, drivers license picture and full name. Not even a
subtle scam, but that would probably fool most people. After contacting AirBNB
support(which is a difficult task itself, good luck finding a form), they took
3 days to respond and responded with a "yeah, don't send them that. Sorry". Of
course, the listing is still there now when I look.

I've also booked trips to Tokyo and LA recently, and in each place the
reservation was accepted, payment was made, and 2 weeks before I was set to
stay there, the owner canceled the stay. Why? Doesn't matter, the owner can
cancel without penalty for "unforeseen circumstances". Of course the renter
gets charged a massive fee for canceling including, naturally, AirBNB's fees.

My fraud alert is always on high now when using AirBNB and I think no one
should put all their vacation eggs in the 1 basket with them. Too unreliable,
too flaky on reservations, and too we-don't-care-about-you attitude towards
the renters.

~~~
pavel_lishin
The renter gets charged when the host cancels the reservation?

~~~
nickip
In my experience no. But it puts the renter at a disadvantage. I have had them
cancel 5 days before my flight to a small island. Least to say it was
extremely expensive to rebook a new room that matched the "quality" of the
airbnb I was expecting. Of course if I had cancelled 5 days before I would
have been on the hook for half the amount of the stay and the service fees,
due to the cancellation policy the host choose (Do the host choose these?).

------
zschuessler
I hit a variation of this scam. I wasn't baited on a different space, but the
listing was heavily misleading. I even had roommates even though the listing
didn't state it!

The listing had 5 stars because of a network of shill accounts leaving fake
reviews. Additionally, there is no penalty for deleting a listing and
recreating it when the fake 5-star status runs out.

I contacted Airbnb about the shill account network, and the scam, and they
didn't do anything about it. Although I got a refund, I wasted 3 hours of my
life trying to get into a locked apartment that had my things in it before a
plane took off. The shill accounts still exist.

Haven't used Airbnb since. I might gamble for a chic destination listing for
fun, but never again for casual/business use.

~~~
jzwinck
I got surprise roommates once too. An entire family living in one of the
bedrooms in what I booked as a 2 bedroom unit. Turned out the place had 3
total bedrooms, and while I would have understood if the host lived in the
third, this was a totally unrelated tenant with multiple children. I contacted
Airbnb and they said sure I can cancel, I just need to get the host to agree.
Which he obviously did not want to do. This took hours to resolve.

------
jcomis
This scam is common in Europe as well. Something very similar happened to me
in London where I was seemingly renting from a nice regular person who had a
single well reviewed listing. Once I arrived I was met by some guy from a
property company who said he "worked with" the lister and he was going to move
us to some place better. He showed us a total dump with dilapidated Ikea junk.
He basically threatened us with poor reviews/no refund when we didn't take it.
Airbnb did literally nothing. I had to reach out to friend that works there to
get traction.

Same thing happened in Florence to friends the following year. Luckily that
time I had already bailed on Airbnb and got a hotel. But after I helped them
look into it I found several instances of the photos/description from their
well reviewed host used on other accounts.

~~~
dboreham
London specifically is known for this BS even before AirBnb.

------
ejain
Just talked to someone at Airbnb. Two takeaways:

1\. If the property does not match the description, take pictures (they won't
just take your word for it).

2\. If you are told that the original property is not available, contact
Airbnb right away, and they will give you a full refund and help you find a
place to stay (Airbnb or otherwise).

Fortunately, I've never had to put any of this to the test...

~~~
lixtra
> 2\. If you are told that the original property is not available, contact
> Airbnb right away...

Can you ask your friend how to contact Airbnb such that you get a reasonable
fast response, say within 1h?

~~~
ejain
I don't know anyone at Airbnb, but simply contacted them via
[https://www.airbnb.com/help/contact-
us/channel](https://www.airbnb.com/help/contact-us/channel), and had someone
respond right away. YMMV.

~~~
lixtra
Thanks. Your thread should be on top.

------
ir77
I've used Airbnb exactly once, probably 8 years ago once. Me, wife, her
parents and my parents all met up in Paris. I rented a 'luxury' apartment that
was enough to sleep 8 people and looked great in pictures.

When we got there half the furniture was gone because the guy apparently got
divorced between when the pictures got taken and his life "now", half the beds
were kid's mattresses on pull out beds, there was no longer a shower but
literally a full fledged hot-tub that had a flex shower over it.

the coffee machine and half the utensils in the kitchen had mold on it. we
never got enough towels for all the people.

we stayed there for one day and couldn't do it anymore, i sent an email to
Airbnb and the owner asking that we part ways amicably and they let us out of
the contract, both replied that it was past 12 hours that we stayed there and
i was liable for full cost.

i went outside to a payphone, called collect to a number listed on my platinum
amex and explained the situation, the first thing the amex rep said: "i'm
sorry to hear about your situation, we're immediately refunding you the full
amount, go find a hotel room, enjoy the rest of your vacation and we'll call
you when you get back to the states".

when i got to the states i had my money back from amex and Airbnb for weeks
would write to me that "they're investigating my situation", at which point i
didn't even bother reading their emails anymore. it was a crap company then
and it seems like it's a crap company now. there really isn't any reason to do
business with companies that don't value the customer, no matter how appealing
the "price" may be.

------
steelframe
I'm going on a 10-day vacation overseas at the end of this month. Given how
infrequently I do big vacations (a personal issue I'm working to overcome), I
have zero tolerance for surprises when it comes to my accommodations. I simply
look for large and established four- or five-star hotels that have been around
for a while and have numerous positive reviews across several web sites.
Another hack I do is to use the "!mill" directive in DDG to filter out
corpspeak and SEO-type stuff. I try to book directly with the hotels whenever
possible -- although sometimes language and cultural barriers make that
prohibitively tricky. I once spent half an hour trying to book something on a
Japanese-language hotel web site (making generous use of page source and
Google translate) before giving up and going through Booking.com, since there
are apparently things about Japanese hospitality culture that I'm not clued in
to.

In the end, I probably pay something like 50% more for my accommodations than
I could if I were to take chances with AirBNB. But for me, the insecurity and
potential for high-stress situations once I arrive in a foreign country just
aren't worth it.

~~~
6gvONxR4sf7o
Can you explain the "!mill" directive?

~~~
scrooched_moose
It redirects to Million Short, a search engine that removes results for the
top N websites.

Helpful for filtering out the Pinterest/Yelp/AngiesList/Home Advisor spam that
fills the first several pages of results for most local searches.

~~~
6gvONxR4sf7o
Very cool. Thanks for the explanation. It sounds useful!

------
mattpavelle
Why don't companies like AirBNB who have a lot to lose (reputation wise) from
a (small?) number of scammers sue those scammers into oblivion? Not only are
they violating the TOS but they are committing fraud, and likely breaking a
few other laws.

AirBNB must know who they are as those scammers are getting paid, right? It
would be expensive for AirBNB (they would certainly lose money) but it can't
cost more than the revenue they lose when people read articles like this?

~~~
chrischen
The vast majority of Airbnbs I’ve stayed in were illegal hotels/rentals...
only a handful were legit renting out a spare room / couch surfing type deals
and the first time I did that I had to pretend I was the host’s college
friend.

Airbnb is basically built on shifting liability to shifty people running
hotels out of rentals.

Also, pro tip, I’d guess at least 50% of the airbnbs I’ve stayed in do not
wash the sheets in a washer (I’ve literally physically observed at least one
host lint-roll follow by a spray of fabric freshener).

That being said I still use them to lower my own standards and prices below
hotels, but I know what I’m getting into at least.

~~~
SubiculumCode
Not all localities make it illegal to do so.

~~~
tenpies
Even in localities where it is legal, the ratio of "hosts" running their
operation in accordance with the law is comically low. There is a serious
enforcement problem and it's largely because AirBnB does everything it can to
not cooperate with local government.

------
tus88
> Airbnb advises the guest to request a cancellation if they’re “not okay with
> the switch.”

This is beyond vile. The booking had already been cancelled by definition by
the host, the refund should be automatic. They act like it's Hotel where you
haven't booked a specific room. I'll never touch this POS company.

~~~
pentae
Yeah when i'm travelling the last thing I want is surprises with the place i'm
staying, but people are so price sensitive they will put up with a lot.

One common thing I see in this thread is people act like theres only two
choices: Hotels or Airbnb. I've never had a booking on HomeAway that wasn't on
par or exceeding expectations.

~~~
afjl
This is actually the first time I've heard of HomeAway, thanks. The only short
term rental company I've ever used or heard of was Airbnb. I'll probably be
shopping around the next time I travel.

~~~
taormina
FYI, their consumer name is VRBO. The HomeAway office is here in Austin, but
the actual app you use is called VRBO (and I think all the offices are getting
new signs soon?).

~~~
biztos
Originally "Vacation Rental By Owner" \-- which I thought was the name of the
web site years ago.

------
jrochkind1
Well, this certainly makes me want to never book an AirBnB again. You'd think
AirBnB would be more alarmed about the reputational and consequent business
hit of this sort of thing. Maybe they will be after this article?

~~~
rickyc091
> If a guest stays even one night in a rental, for example, it is difficult to
> obtain a full refund, according to Airbnb’s rules.

You don't even have to stay one night... I ran into this exact scenario where
upon arrival, the place had no electricity, wifi, and construction for a few
blocks outside. I was unable to contact them until the next day since my first
instinct was to look for another place ASAP and rest from the long flight.
Sure enough, they threw their ToS at me and stated that I wasn't eligible for
a refund. I contacted AMEX, but they partner with AirBnB so I was denied a
credit there as well. I ended up paying an entire week for a place I didn't
stay at.

~~~
droithomme
> I contacted AMEX, but they partner with AirBnB so I was denied a credit
> there as well.

Thanks for that, didn't realize they deny chargebacks in cases of fraud and
misrepresentation. Partnering with a company that engages in widespread global
fraud and illegal activity is an interesting choice for Amex.

------
knodi123
Wow, I think I got hit by this same scam in Auckland, NZ. Saw pictures of a
perfectly fine little apartment. Showed up and it was actually a furniture
storage unit- the living room had two couches, three desks, and two commercial
scanner/copiers.

The bed had 12 full-sized pillows and one sheet, and the sheet was so starched
that I pinched the middle and lifted it to head height, and it just stayed
there. You could sculpt it.

The silverware drawer had 5 knives and one chopstick. The kitchen trash was
full. The shower had a drain full of hair. I had to go buy soap and paper
towels at a convenience store.

I called the host (a "retired local woman") and got a man with an indian
accent who offered me a "much larger and nicer property a few kilometers
away", which I couldn't take because I was traveling with my family and we
were just exhausted.

~~~
dplgk
I wonder what would happen if you trashed the place? What would the host do?
Send photos of the trashed place that looks nothing like the listing?

------
bluetidepro
Mentioned this in another comment, but it blows my mind that the author ends
with:

> "Even after a month of digging through public records, scouring the internet
> for clues, repeatedly calling Airbnb and confronting the man who called
> himself Patrick, I can’t say I’ll be leaving the platform, either. Dealing
> with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is
> still just a bit cheaper than renting a hotel."

After an experience like that, I'd spend so much effort warning everyone I
know to avoid Airbnb, even with the off chance something like this could
happen to them. THIS is exactly why Airbnb doesn't care, the user is so
brainwashed into still using the platform even after all that to potentially
save a few bucks (which honestly, from what I have seen these days, Airbnb is
basically the same cost of a hotel if you buy from any hotel deal site). I
just don't understand that logic at all. _Fool me once..._

~~~
joezydeco
_Even after a_ >>>month<<< _of digging through public records...Dealing with
Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is still just
a bit cheaper than renting a hotel. "_

It's constantly amazing to see how little people value their time when it
comes to stuff like this. Maybe when we're getting yearly salaries we don't
compute out the hourly cost but, man, do the math once in a while.

~~~
thatfrenchguy
Well you’re not getting paid more when it’s on your free time.

~~~
moftz
There is an opportunity cost. There are plenty of gig-type jobs that could be
performed in your spare time.

~~~
ipython
I'd rather track down and expose a scam for free than to get paid $5 from
TaskRabbit to put someone's IKEA furniture together. Sometimes it's about more
than money...

------
tempsy
I find it pretty crazy that AirBnB's tech never really evolved on the host or
guest side at all. The experience is still basically like a pretty Craigslist
with payment processing. I sometimes wonder what an engineer there even does
other than maintain a CRUD app.

For example, why isn't there an Alexa-like concierge device in every AirBnB
that answers guest questions by now? Why aren't there smart locks on every
home that unlocks with the app? Etc etc.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
> Why aren't there smart locks on every home that unlocks with the app?

AirBnB is reportedly pressuring hosts to install smart locks, but they are
getting pushback from hosts who like socializing with the people who come to
stay at their property. Yes, a huge amount of AirBnB listings are faceless
property developers now, but there is still a good slice of individual
families renting out a spare flat. Sometimes the host is an elderly person who
craves that kind of interaction with other human beings (which can be awkward
as a guest when you just want to quickly lock yourself in the rental and have
some time alone).

~~~
irrational
My wife and I recently stayed near the beach in an apartment under an elderly
couple's home. All the reviews mentioned how friendly Bill and Betty (I can't
actually remember their names) were and how much they enjoyed visiting. That
was the last thing we were interested in. So in our comments to the hosts we
said we were coming to get away from the kids and were just looking for time
to ourselves with no interaction from other people. Fortunately that worked!
Other than briefly talking to them when we checked in, we didn't interact with
them at all the remainder of the time we were there. It was great!

------
dannykwells
I think what Airbnb, and uber, lyft, Amazon etc. All fail to understand is the
longevity ans stickiness of brand. Once you become an untrustworthy or low
quality brand, it's very hard to change that. You can still do fine (see: wal
mart) but you'll always be looking over your shoulder for higher quality
brands that poach the most lucrative customers, and eventually, thats what
will lead to your downfall (see: wal mart)

~~~
harryh
Ah yes, the downfall of WalMart. The... _checks notes_...largest company by
revenue in America.

~~~
booi
yeah if anything Walmart explicitly disproves this statement. Also see Dollar
General et. al, Comcast, AT&T etc..

------
apacheCamel
I am not sure why, but reading this article just made me feel pretty ill. How
does someone (multiple someones?) have the moral ability to do these kinds of
things? I seriously can't believe the whole stack, from AirBNB to the scammer,
just let these kinds of things go. At the end, where the author states she
will continue to use AirBNB because it is cheaper kind of rubs me the wrong
way. For a company to allow such slimy things to happen with minimal recourse
would just turn me off from them forever. And the scammer? To just rip people
off, knowingly ruin peoples vacations (and other things, but I imagine mostly
vacations) because "money" is just ridiculous. These kinds of stories just
hurt me. I wish people were better, but I know these types of people won't
stop scamming.

~~~
munificent
There's a weird fundamental flaw in social groups which is this:

1\. Trusting trustworthy people increases efficiency. The less checking and
verification you have to do, the less redundant work there is and the more
easily things go.

2\. As the number of trustworthy people in a group increases, the value of
choosing to trust a random person increases. The odds get greater that they
will be trustworthy, letting you reap the greater efficiency of trusting them.

3\. As the number of trusting people in a group increases, the relative value
of _malice_ increases. The more likely a con artist is to be trusted, the more
likely they are to be successful at their goal.

So there's this weird trust graph where as you approach 100% trustworthiness,
you also approach 100% exploitability. The group gradually turns itself into a
honeypot. So the stable equilibrium point is somewhere less of 100%.

~~~
apacheCamel
That makes sense but I guess the question is why? If things work and people
are happy with a system, why do the opposite and ruin it? I know it isn't an
easy question to answer and could really be anything, but sometimes I really
just want to sit down with them and find out why. It is fascinating stuff, but
it hurts to think about sometimes. Just because the value of becoming a
scammer goes up, doesn't mean we should embrace it.

~~~
volkk
I think this question essentially boils down to: "why do people commit crimes"
and that's not something that has one easy answer

------
120photo
I was in Chinatown (NYC) about a month ago helping at a event when this German
woman walks over asking for help (very poor Spoken English). Three German
tourist with their luggage dead tired and long story short their host canceled
on them one hour before their flight was scheduled to land. They phones did
not work in the US so they could not jump on expedia to look for a hotel. The
best we could do was hail a cab for them to take them to a hotel where they
would be charged $400 a night. Now they did not book through AirBnB but it was
through some other similar service. I think they had paid about $1500 for a
week. Really makes me not want to use services like this and just go to a
hotel. Yes it is more money but I rather not deal with the hassle.

------
esmi
This plumbing switch-er-roo scam is not new. A hotel tried the same thing on
me in Paris in 2000. I booked a hotel in district 1 and they tried to move me
to one on the edge due to flooding. Luckily I had been warned by a friend and
refused. After I made a fuss the manager magically found an open room for me.

------
eagsalazar2
The amazing thing to me is how rarely this really happens. Some people love to
say that human nature is fundamentally greedy and deceitful but here you have
an enormous system based entirely on trust and reputation (since apparently
AirBnB doesn't have checks beyond that) and although there are examples of
abuse, overwhelmingly people have a good experience.

However I think most likely it isn't that AirBnB has no checks on hosts, they
are just a big stupid company dealing with a messy problem. I've heard similar
complaints from hosts with their own set of anecdotes where they felt unfairly
abused by renters who unfairly complain and AirBnB applying decisions without
any transparency or recourse.

------
g_sch
Does this article really contain a referral link for "overstock.com
barstools"? I'm not sure if I should be appalled that they inserted an ad into
a journalistic piece, or respect them for doing it despite how negative the
reference is.

~~~
astura
I chuckled at that... It's almost certainly an automatically algorithmically
generated link inserted by the publisher.

~~~
giarc
You are likely correct, it's probably Vice doing that not the author. Reddit
tried it for a bit. They had software that would automatically transform
relevant retail links into referral links. They stopped the practice as it
wasn't making as much money as they thought it would.

~~~
magashna
Also it's annoying to the user and I'm sure companies don't want links to be
"look at these shit ass _overstock.com chairs_"

------
cwkoss
Whenever you're asking for a full refund in cases of fraud, regardless of the
business, be sure to use the word "chargeback" with the customer service rep.

Fraudulent sales can be easily reversed by your credit card provider. In my
experience, saying "If I don't get a refund, I'll issue a chargeback through
my credit card provider" gets them to process the full refund immediately.

~~~
the_watcher
Yep. Just be clear that you'd really prefer to resolve it with the company,
but that if they refuse, you view it as fraud and will pursue appropriate
remedies.

------
AlexDragusin
Which is why I always stay at hotels, proper and good hotels that have
reputation at stake, where upon checking in I do a cursory check and promptly
but politely report if I see any issues. Upon checking out I request a person
to actually sign-off on the room.

Works like a charm, never had an issue!

------
saneshark
As someone who has lived out of AirBnB for almost 3 years traveling all around
the world and never once being scammed, I find the title of this article to be
a bit alarmist.

AirBnB has host and guest verification options. If Becky and Andrew don't have
their identities verified via drivers license but manage over 90 properties
that is your first red flag right there.

Second, if the host can't accommodate you you reach out to AirBnb and put the
onus on them to find you an acceptable property that meets your standards. You
don't let the host offer up some random place that happens to be available,
that's suspicious.

I've had a number of hosts cancel on me at the last minute recently, I didn't
immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be a scam. I simply assumed
that their property is also listed on VRBO and other sites and someone either
beat me to the punch or they got more money, or they didn't realize that they
can't list the unit and forgot to take down the listing.

Mistakes happen. Sure, there are scammers out there on every platform, but in
my 3 years and over 100 successful stays, I really find this article's title
tough to swallow.

------
Julien_r2
Few days ago I stumbled upon an article from Paul Graham from 2008 that fits
well in the current topic imo - Be good
([http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html))
He describes how startup sometime follows the pattern "You grow big by being
nice, but you can stay big by being mean."

And it's the feeling I have today about Airbnb.. I use to love them, not only
because of the concept, but also as a startup pushing innovation, sharing tech
and design learnings, etc. It had a sens of contributing to community, and
caring its users

Today I despite them for the uncontrolled impact they have in cities, and the
we-don't-care philosophy they seems to have adopted (not to mention the
feeling of being betrayed by a company I use to look up to). And I can't
really blame ourselves for keeping on using it. They created "something that
people wants" and now are taking advantage of it.

It's probably our responsibility now to remind those companies that "something
we want" is a product _along_ with a care for its users.

~~~
bvandewalle
this should be higher up and is exactly how I feel. I will go out of my way to
never book an Airbnb again and I'm pushing all my friends to do so as well.

------
scurvy
It's becoming very clear why the company has resisted going public for years.
Increased scrutiny and visibility is going to show everyone exactly how shady
their business is. You can almost guarantee a FTC investigation within a year
of going public.

Also, why don't people issue charge backs with their credit card companies?
Airbnb customer service might suck, but credit card companies almost always
side with their customers if there's a modicum of proof showing something
henky.

~~~
scurvy
Self reply since I can't edit, but the FBI has recently contacted the
article's author. First, FBI investigation for criminal activity. Then FTC
case for ongoing consumer deception and fraud due by failing to police their
platform and turning a blind eye to obvious criminal activity.

We've passed peak airbnb.

------
thecouve
I fell for probably the early version of this back in 2015. Google fi number
with a non-existent property in LA. Host confirms, emails photos, minimal back
and forth about check in.

We show up at the property and it clearly doesn't exist, lucky for us the
number is disconnected now and he won't answer us. This is clearly a scam.
Though it's Airbnb's policy to give the hosts an hour to respond to a
complaint even though it's obviously a scam. We then have to wait in the
ghetto of LA for an hour so the host can respond, he never does. Finally
Airbnb agrees that it's a scam and that the property doesn't exist, the
address is dead center in a industrial park. I then have to go book a hotel on
my card that Airbnb will refund at a later date that is equivalent to what we
booked, nearly impossible for booking on day of. So going forward we spent
1.5hrs driving to the fake property, 1hr waiting for the fake host to respond,
1hr to confirm over phone how to proceed with Airbnb, then another 2hrs going
to a hotel and checking in. All in all it wasted over half a day of our
vacation, gas money, and frustration, over an obviously fake posting.

------
JadoJodo
I'm not sure how to fix all the issues outlined in this article, but I think
that a 14-day, double-blind review period started at checkout would alleviate
some of the trust issue presented here. That is to say:

Once checkout has completed, both Guest and Host have 14 days (21? 30?) to
write their reviews (neither party can see the others' review). At the end of
that period, both reviews are visible on the site and cannot be edited.

~~~
OkGoDoIt
Isn’t this currently the case? As far as I can tell you don’t get to see the
other review until you’ve written and submitted your own.

~~~
JadoJodo
I've only used Airbnb once, so I'm unsure. But given the "retaliatory reviews"
mentioned in the article, it seems not; How could I retaliate if I don't know
what your review will be?

~~~
Zebfross
They are right; it works that way now. Maybe the "relatiation" is in
anticipation of a bad review?

------
netsharc
Well, I've written a few months ago that I don't want to give such a scummy
platform them their 30%, regretfully I still did use them last month, so to
put my money where my mouth is, I just deleted my airbnb account citing the
article. [https://www.airbnb.com/account-
delete/reasons](https://www.airbnb.com/account-delete/reasons)

------
wayoutthere
I have had this happen to me twice. The inconvenience of putting up with this
bullshit outweighs the $50/night I save. It happens frequently enough you do
have to consider it in the equation.

This has pushed me back to traditional hotels.

------
giarc
It's always interesting to see scammers at work. The nature of scammers,
atleast the ones that get caught, put in 95% effort, and it's that last 5%
that gets them caught.

In this case, imagine if instead of trash furniture and minimal decor in the
"switch" property of "bait and switch" they put in half decent stuff. Renters
would probably all accept the story of a plumber and move on. Instead, they
fill the property with crappy furniture and leave unhappy customers. They
could have gotten away with it.

~~~
marcodave
Well, if a scam is successful and unnoticeable, by definition we won't see any
articles about those, right?

~~~
giarc
You are correct, I guess my point was more about the fact that they were _so_
close to getting away with it. Cutting corners never pays.

~~~
pessimizer
They did get away with it, over and over again. And when the scam was
discovered, they went dark. They could have even switched to alternate
accounts, alternate platforms, or even a different scam that utilizes those
empty properties.

Not getting away with something in perpetuity is not the same as not getting
away with it. Had they been more timid with their margins, maybe they would
have been busted before making the money they did make.

------
Nextgrid
I wonder why nobody has ever attempted to dispute the transactions with their
card issuer.

These scenarios seem like pretty solid grounds for chargebacks.

If they attract enough chargebacks Airbnb will not only take a hit to their
wallet (and maybe reconsider their policies if it happens frequently enough)
but also might get them in trouble with their acquirer bank (too many
chargebacks and your merchant account gets terminated).

------
dvirsky
I had just deleted my AirBnB account a while ago and swore not to ever use it
again. Didn't get scammed, just had a bad experience, but it's just not worth
the stress. You're stressed about getting scammed, stressed about the place
not being good, stressed about cancellation, stressed about getting a bad
review, stressed about breaking someone's shit by accident, etc etc.

------
iblaine
It's Oct 31st so this thread seems like a good place to post Airbnb horror
stories.

The first Airbnb I rented was part of an interview at Airbnb. I was given a
credit for a free Airbnb for the purpose of experiencing the product. The
Airbnb I rented was in San Francisco and clearly used only as an Airbnb
rental.

The second Airbnb I rented was with my family while on vacation in Italy. One
afternoon we returned to find out the locks were changed. This was scheduled
building maintenance and I was not notified. I chose a place with a special
~'locals badge' only to find out the owner was an American living in the US.

Given this is a tiny sample, Airbnb generally seems to have a problem with
borderline fraud.

------
kop316
I'll ask the dumb question (I don't use AirBnB): why not dispute the charge
via a credit card?

~~~
RandomBacon
Presumably AirBnB would ban the user and the user still wants to be able to
use the service in the future.

~~~
bluetidepro
> the user still wants to be able to use the service in the future.

And this is why Airbnb doesn't care. This is insane to me that they end with
"Dealing with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system
is still just a bit cheaper than renting a hotel." after ALL that. It's like
the author has stockholm syndrome. I can't wrap my head around why you'd ever
use Airbnb again after an experience like that, esp. when hotels are about the
same cost.

~~~
alistairSH
Are hotels really about the same cost? My last several vacations have used
Airbnb for housing, mostly because I prefer to cook my own meals and like
having some space to spread out. Booking a suite w/ kitchenette at hotels in
the same areas would have been quite expensive, if even possible.

But, I've never been scammed on Airbnb. My experiences have all been
excellent. That's one rental in the US and 5 across western Europe in the last
7 years. Not sure if it matters, but none of these were "cheap" rentals - they
were all mid-priced. And almost all with "Super Host" rating (no clue if that
gives any extra protection).

~~~
bluetidepro
> Are hotels really about the same cost?

That's a fair question. I may have generalized a bit with that statement,
however, from what I have seen lately if you use a hotel deal site, it has
been about the same cost. On my recent vacations, after looking at options
like Airbnb vs hotels in popular US cities, it has been an easy decision to
get hotels over an Airbnb with the price difference averaging around $25-50
(esp. after you factor in all the crazy fees Airbnb does now, that you don't
see until checkout). However, you do make a good point for your specific needs
of the kitchen, that will obviously change a lot in terms of a hotel pricing
with that amenity.

For what it's worth, I've also only ever had good experiences with Airbnb in
the past when I have used them, but still my main point was if I was the
author, I don't know how I could ever go back to using Airbnb after that.

------
gerbilly
Who would have guessed that there might be something to all the rules and
regulations that have been written around traditional hotels and taxis?

Just because something is ordered through a phone doesn't make it better in
all respects.

------
btbuildem
I'd be tempted to work that flophouse over with a sledgehammer and a crowbar.
Would the scammers have any recourse?

~~~
freeplay
That would have been the move.

\- Destroy the flophouse \- Leave a 5 star review on your original booking
saying how nice the place was \- If the scammers attempt to complain to AirBnB
or charge fees, kindly tell them that's not the place you stayed and you have
never seen that location. Refer them to the original listing for the beautiful
home where your reservation was.

Scammers would be claiming you destroyed a place that AirBnB has no record of
you ever staying in.

------
drenvuk
First time I stayed at an abnb with friends it was set up as home that hosted
8 people with 4 rooms... I was situated in what I would consider to be a mud
room with a space heater next to the garage on thin, uncomfortable mattresses.
I moved into a hotel room a couple miles away and just came over for dinner
and activities.

I'd much rather plan ahead and stay in a hotel. At least then there's a
corporate culture who actually cares about their brand name instead of an IPO.
There's no accountability and massive amounts of low key fraud.

------
Cthulhu_
Random business idea: AirBnB but with verified properties. Actually AirBnB can
do that themselves easily enough, just hire people to check properties. Or
hire secret guests, if the renter redirects the user to another property,
withold payments / ban them from the site.

But quality is not in AirBnB's interest, apparently - being cheaper is. They
get a cut from all financial transactions anyway. Once they're listed on the
stock market the people currently running it can retire and it's no longer
their problem.

~~~
marcodave
If by "verified properties" we can infer "regulations and warranties", aren't
you just reinventing hotels?

~~~
aembleton
But with a kitchen and other amenities.

~~~
altoidaltoid
So you mean "extended stay" hotels? Residence Inn, Homewood Suites, etc...

------
thinnerlizzy
Several months ago my AirBnB (2FA enabled) account was compromised. The
scammer booked me for a property - the listing populated with blatant stock
photos, no ratings - that was stated to be somewhere in England, but the pin
on the map was somewhere in the ocean off the west coast of South America.

Once I raised the issue with them, I didn't hear from them for over a week.
While I was concerned about the ~$1000 they owed me, I was equally concerned
that someone had accessed my account. After about a week had passed I got them
on the phone again and applied a little pressure, and a couple days later I
had my refund. I did this by explaining that I work in the industry and I'm
aware of what a big deal the ability to bypass a large company's 2FA is, that
there's no excuse to drag their feet over such an obvious scam, and I vaguely
alluded to media being interested in a story like this. I don't know how
Average Joe would have fared in my case.

By reading the article and this thread there appears to be a variety of ways
to conduct a scam on AirBnb.

------
buckminster
With nearly one hundred rentals this scammer must have been making some
serious money. That's fraud on a grand scale in multiple states. Isn't that
what the FBI is for? The journalist should make a report.

~~~
rgharris
It looks like the FBI has contacted Vice about the article.

> _Update 11 /1/19: The morning after this article was published, the FBI
> contacted VICE about the claims made above._

------
nakedrobot2
Dear Airbnb,

You have destroyed the rental apartment market in my city. You profit from
taking advantage of loopholes in legislation, legislation which protects
consumers from unscrupulous, dangerous, and untrustworthy properties.

The sooner every city enacts laws limiting "airbnb" apartment rentals to 30
days per year per apartment, the better. Otherwise it is abused at scale.

~~~
atotic
Wow. I had my own bad AirBnB experience, and privately decided never to never
use them again. I wrongly assumed it was just me.

This is sad, I thought AirBnB were one of the good guys, and had a good
experience 4 years ago.

Is there something about doing things at scale that makes things go bad? It
seems like so many companies are great at start, but go downhill when their
assumption that "fraud is a rare exception" does not hold.

~~~
htrp
Communities don't scale.

Airbnb 4-8 years ago was a quirky thing that biased towards tech early
adopters. Because it wasn't wildly profitable, it didn't become a magnet for
scams yet.

As the community grew, the population includes more diverse people (including
the bad actors). Once bad actors find it's easy to get around the loopholes,
they tell others and the scams become prevalent.

------
cgearhart
> But my power was nothing compared to that of a company valued this year at
> $35 billion...

It may not recover their loss, but the author wields significant power with
this article. For example, I’ll never again consider staying at an AirBnB
property. I would caveat that to add “until they fix the problems with their
platform”, but I don’t think it’s necessary because (a) I’m not sure they
_can_ at their scale, and (b) it certainly doesn’t seem like they _care_.

Sure, I’m only one guy, but this is _not_ the kind of press a company wants
before they go public.

------
cryptozeus
“If I had another choice, I would not use Airbnb again,” he told me. “I was
very put off by getting scammed. But at this point, I feel like if I want to
travel, there’s not really much else I can do.”...how about HomeAway, vebo ?
There are other options.

Also of course airbnb is to blame for handling the support issue poorly,
however my experience with airbnb has been nothing but amazing.

Same nonsense can happen at any 2-3 star hotels.

Never book airbnb without some research. If any issues come then file a
complaint before your trip ends and ideally within first 24 hr.

------
01010001
> In 2015, Airbnb spent at least $8 million on lobbying efforts to fight back
> an ordinance in San Francisco that required all Airbnb hosts to register
> their units with the city in a lengthy process. The ordinance passed anyway,
> severely reducing the number of properties available. But not all cities
> have San Francisco’s budgetary resources. When New Orleans overhauled their
> short-term rental laws in August, for example, the budget-strapped city
> mostly left oversight of the new rules in the hands of Airbnb.

> “If I had another choice, I would not use Airbnb again,” he told me. “I was
> very put off by getting scammed. But at this point, I feel like if I want to
> travel, there’s not really much else I can do.”

> I can’t say I’ll be leaving the platform, either...is still just a bit
> cheaper than renting a hotel.

This blows my mind. I had a terrible experience when Airbnb took over the top
floor flat when I used to live on the ground floor, so I decided to never use
them, I travel regularly and always use a mix of hotels and vacation homes
depending of the destination and I never needed Airbnb.

But even after being scammed and spending their holiday time moving around and
being shafted then spending time after the holiday fighting for a refund and
losing money these people still find value in the service, mind blowing.

------
jbverschoor
Yeah, I stopped using Airbnb a loooooong time ago, and only use it when the
price diff is something like 4 fold. Too many bad experiences. Yay booking.com
and normal hotels

~~~
baobabKoodaa
I have the opposite experience. After several bad experiences with hotels I 'm
mostly using Airbnb. Fewer issues.

~~~
astura
What sort of issues do you have at hotels that you don't have at Airbnbs?

~~~
baobabKoodaa
One time a hotel - which I had fully paid for a week earlier - kept badgering
us for money throughout our stay. They said that we had been given too low of
a rate due to some error. The rate wasn't even low, they were just trying to
scam us. Furthermore, they had our booking for 1 week and they chose not to
contact us about the issue until we arrived (making it really infeasible to
change hotels on such a short notice).

Another time our hotel room was smelling like a sewer and the hotel refused to
fix the issue or move us to another room.

Just two examples there. Hotels are generally awful.

------
angel_j
This isn't about airBnB, this is about all the big web tech companies, which
found the algorithm and got the monopoly. They created new markets and can't
be bothered to shake out the many scammers who find the myriad loopholes in
their big, dumb systems. This goes for Amazon products as much as Google SEO.
B/c of their monopolistic power, they just move on, and leave a wreck in their
wake, which becomes our web and environments.

------
jiveturkey
Nice piece, albeit a little bit clickbaity (par for the course with vice).
It's a single small-time operator, maybe 2 guys, with a few properties across
a few cities. Yes, technically it's nationwide, but the scope is that of a
small time con, not some extensive and deep operation.

To summarize, the photos and listings are fake, with fake host names and the
requisite fake reviews. When you arrive, you get a call 10-30 minutes before
check-in and told the plumbing is broken, I need to move you. Then you get put
in a "flophouse". I suppose the move is so that the actual address where you
will stay isn't listed on AirBNB and you won't be able to street view it, etc.
Because otherwise I don't see the point of not putting you into the crap house
at the listed address.

Through a process of sloppy ops work on the scammer, and tenacity of the
author, she uncovered the name and other personal details of the perp and
confronted him. He then removed any digital trails of himself which he had so
stupidly had publicly available before, thinking they couldn't be traced back
easily.

It's a great revenge story, the kind that gives you vicarious satisfaction.

My only question is, why didn't the author call the FBI afterwards?

------
homakov
Airbnb reviews are practically useless. Numerous of times I've been to 10-20
good-reviewed apartments that ended up too dirty or noisy so I had to go to a
hotel.

Also, for no reason Airbnb prohibits from sorting by reviews or price, so I've
developed this script - it's super userful:
[http://sakurity.com/airbnb.js](http://sakurity.com/airbnb.js)

------
mancerayder
I wasn't scammed with AirBNB but I've had bad experiences, and the bad
experiences happened more recently, while stellar experiences happened in the
past.

My most recent experience was an apartment in Paris that was smaller than it
appeared, hadn't been cleaned so it had crumbs on the floor, had a bed with
what looked like sheets out of the package (never cleaned), and the owner's
dirty clothes sitting there. But the worst was the toilet was electric,
requiring being pushed down with a brush when flushing. No, that's simply not
the norm in Paris. There was also construction on the building, despite my
emailing the host (a company with a person's name), asking about noise.

Like the Vice author, I never left a review because I didn't want to appear
difficult or even get a retaliatory one in case I want to use AirBNB in the
future. BTW, in Paris it's regulated, complete with an issued ID for the
property, but cities care only for tax collection, not consumers.

That may have been the last straw for me.

------
ryanmarsh
I travel nearly every week for business. For almost two years I stayed
exclusively in Airbnbs. I was giving Airbnb as much business as one person
can.

I had several truly terrible (even scammy) experiences in those two years and
not only did Airbnb not refund me a dime but each time I contacted support I
was not recognized as a frequent traveler who is used to the system and has
great feedback from hosts, each time I was treated like I was some asshole
trying to scam them.

Airbnb has a major major quality problem (not to mention the customer
service). The platform has turned into a joke. Try this on for size, say "this
Airbnb looks great in the pictures" to anyone with experience using the
platform and watch their non-verbal response. We know. I wonder how long
Airbnb can keep this up.

Lastly, the Airbnb Plus program is no better. I stayed in a Plus a few weeks
ago in Milan and it was a dump that looked nothing like the pictures, even
with different furniture. That was my second Plus disaster in a year.

------
otterpro
I've had good experience both as a host and as a guest on airbnb, but these
incidents are definitely serious enough to reconsider using Airbnb.

If Airbnb would implement a home-owner verification (which is possible in US
since they're public record), most of these scams would be preventable. I
mean, Airbnb is a billion dollar company, so couldn't they do this?

------
kkarpkkarp
wow, I have seen the same when I have been looking for a house at Airbnb on
Corfu. Because I have been checking many places on this island, in different
areas, I found some houses with the same bathrooms (just photographed from
different angles). I found it must be scam and I have chosen different place.
That one if I remember clear I have reported to AirBNB

~~~
onemoresoop
Did it have any reviews? I haven’t been scammed at all (yet) but I was always
cautious knowing it’s not as consistent an experience as in hotels and relied
heavily on good reviews. So far so good. I wonder if and how those could be
scammed similar to whats been plaguing amazon..

------
scammedAnon
I was similarly baited on the Chase credit card travel site. Bought a few
nights at what was advertised as a Hilton in Miami but on the day of got
instructions that made it clear we weren't staying at a Hilton. Turned out to
be a vacation rental in a condo in the same building as the Hilton. The
listing on the chase travel site used a similar name as the Hilton (neither
the real or fake actually use the word "Hilton" in their names), same address,
same photos (pool, restaurant, front desk, rooms, etc), and even figured out a
way to list the reviews for the Hilton in it's listing.

Ultimately we stayed elsewhere because the condos were flop houses. Chase
didn't have any interest in helping us or making it right after dozens of
calls and hours of conversations. As far as I can tell the "properties" have
all been removed. (There were similar listings for other name chain hotels
like the W chain)

------
mannykannot
Does the scam described here count as wire fraud?

"In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to
intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire
communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872."

In addition, is there any prospect of a civil class-action suit against
AirBnB?

------
ceejayoz
I wonder why AirBnB doesn't pay people Uber-style to inspect properties. $5-10
to go to an address and check that it can be accessed and matches the photos
as an unannounced spot check? Send someone out on first listing, periodically,
and every time a host cancels for a "maintenance issue" to verify the claim.

~~~
astura
Verifying listings is not a hard problem, Airbnb literally just doesn't want
to, it takes a "we are just a middle man, hosts are responsible for their
listings" approach. This is what makes them money, I don't think an Airbnb
with only verified legal listings would be very profitable.

~~~
magduf
>I don't think an Airbnb with only verified legal listings would be very
profitable.

I think it absolutely could be. As I said in a post above, I've used it once,
to stay at a private home (with the family living there) when I traveled to
Europe last year and the hotel rates in one particular city were absurd. It
was a great experience for me, though of course staying at a private home is
very different from staying in a hotel, and very limiting in some ways. For
people wanting to do this, "legal" hotels just don't offer that same
experience, and I think such a service can certainly be profitable.

However, it's not going to be mega-profitable like Uber or any other well-
known tech companies with giant IPOs and huge valuations. And this I think is
the problem: greed. Why can't the owners just be happy with something that
makes a tidy profit and provides a nice service to people who want a different
travel experience than what you get staying in a bland hotel room?

~~~
htrp
VC money needs 100x returns

------
hispanic
At this point, I've probably booked four dozen Airbnb stays over the past 7
years or so. Given that, I'd say two of the simplest steps you can take to
limit your chances of booking really bad Airbnbs are to 1.) limit your
bookings to those places where the host only has one listing and 2.) limit
your bookings to owner-occupied places. It seems like the worst elements of
Airbnb are largely eliminated when staying with the host, rather than
insisting on having the entire place to yourself.

I've written-up other advice regarding Airbnb bookings here -
[https://blog.michaelscepaniak.com/how-to-find-choose-and-
boo...](https://blog.michaelscepaniak.com/how-to-find-choose-and-book-airbnbs)

With that being said, scams happen and there's no simple, full-proof way of
completely insulating yourself from them.

------
nojvek
I used to be a big AirBnB fan but they've really gone downhill. I've been
denied refunds. So many places have false advertising.

I'll go back on AirBnb or whatever new platform that gives a 3d reconstruction
of the actual place, and the actual sleeping quarters.

The wide angle heavily photoshopped pictures that Airbnb encourage make it
extremely hard to know if the place is worth it or not.

And then there's the hidden cleaning fees which could be 100s of dollars. They
don't show up on the initial search. The numbers are all towards making it
seem cheap but being quite expensive at the end.

AirBnb uses a number of dark patterns on their site and I hate it. I just
don't think they are an ethical company who have the customer's focus in mind.

I understand though, they gotta recoup their billions of dollars of VC
funding.

I'd rather go for a hotel that I know provides consistent experience every
single time.

------
Sohcahtoa82
I've only used Airbnb once, but it was a smooth experience.

But after reading this and all the comments here, I'm unlikely to use them
again. As far as I'm concerned, Airbnb is complicit in all these scams. They
literally give zero shits about these scam artists, because they're getting
paid either way.

~~~
robocat
It sounds like you are overly risk-averse (I'm guessing you are not a
founder?).

AirBnB is rewards versus risks, as the article author implies right at the
end.

I have used a wide variety of accommodation: AirBnB, hotels, staying with
friends, short term rentals, campervans, cars, outdoors, staying with randoms
I have met.

They all have benefits, and they all have risks.

AirBnB has given me a huge range of different benefits, and I super appreciate
that it exists.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
Correct, I'm not a founder, and honestly I roll my eyes a lot about how
founders on this site are treated like some sort of demigod.

You didn't comment on my opinion that Airbnb is complicit in the scams. Do you
not agree?

~~~
robocat
> founders on this site are treated like some sort of demigod

I certainly hope that isn't the case, and it wasn't my intention to imply
that. This site was primarily begun for founders AFAIK, and I am one myself.

I just wanted to say that founders are supposed to make intelligent bets on
risks.

Employees often take risks too.

Sometimes employees have less control over their risks than founders do, and
sometimes they make the right bets.

------
tamalpais
A solution to this problem, which seems common to many large platform
companies, could be third-party verification.

A trusted third-party could subject hosts and guests according to a more
stringent vetting process. It could even scan listings for guests eager to
book in the same way Fakespot, et al., do for Amazon product listings. [0]

For those interested in online trust in marketplaces, I recommend Planet
Money's episode on the subject. [1]

[0] [https://www.fakespot.com/](https://www.fakespot.com/)

[1]
[https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/06/27/623990036/epis...](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/06/27/623990036/episode-850-the-
fake-review-hunter)

~~~
lovehashbrowns
Sadly, that adds friction to the sign-up process. Companies that operate like
this, "charge instantly, investigate eventually," are like the plague. Amazon
is getting up there, too, with its co-mingled inventories full of counterfeit
products. But at least Amazon has good customer service.

I'm very scared of using airbnb because of stories like this. I've only used
it once. All other times, I've stayed exclusively in hotels, because at least
then I have a proper way of getting my money back. I have a way to know that
if I book my room, I'll have somewhere to stay, guaranteed. I have a way to
get a new room instantly if my current room is unacceptable. And with a hotel,
I know who I can complain to! That's the worst part about this dumb scam for
me. Airbnb refunds you a small percentage of the full price, and the host
ghosts you. Now you're SOL unless your credit card company has mercy on you
and decides to rule in your favor. What a shitty, stressful situation.

------
outworlder
> But Airbnb, which plans to go public next year, seemed to have little
> interest in rooting out the rot from within its own platform.

This is what will pop the 'startup' 'bubble'.

Eventually people will get tired of dealing with the 'unicorns'.

------
majos
People who have been scammed like this on Airbnb: did you a book a well-
reviewed place? As a precaution, I only stay in places with at least ~50
happy, realistic reviews. I've stayed in maybe a dozen such places and never
run into anything worse than slightly unclear arrival instructions.

I'm not saying Airbnb is great, but I'm curious as to what these eventual
scams looked like at the outset.

I suppose it's possible for someone to maintain a legitimate place to
accumulate good reviews and then scam some fraction of people, but the
existence of the legitimate place is still a nontrivial hurdle for a scammer.

Maybe I overestimate how hard it is to get 50 good reviews.

~~~
lammalamma25
I'd be interested in someone with a good profile selling it to a bad actor for
a lump sum. I'm not saying this happens, but it seems like it would be easy to
do/very hard to prevent. Especially if you're moving out of the original
listing.

Generally number of reviews is a good measure of quality IMO.

------
cnst
I don't understand the whole value proposition of Airbnb; and would never use
it willingly myself. The prices are often more than what you'd pay for a
hotel, the security and reliability is often less, and then if these sorts of
things happen, you then have to haggle with case managers for a he-said-she-
said type of situation.

Same thing with Uber — at least there, you get the convenience compared to
having to call a taxi. What exactly do you get from Airbnb?

I travel for business lots, and the last thing I need to worry about is having
to deal with these sorts of issues. Having a hotel and a car rental is so much
easier and reliable.

~~~
adjkant
I think for business your stance makes perfect sense. For me, I regularly use
airbnb for personal travel to stay in a neighborhood and really explore a
city. Often hotels aren't an option. You also often get a fullish kitchen to
cook in which is nice for anything more than a few days.

As mentioned elsewhere, being vigilant when booking can often avoid these.
I've booked around a dozen places with no issues. Very much disappointed that
Airbnb doesn't do better though, as generally the time searching of course is
valuable. For me it's just not as valuable as the way I explore a city coming
from an Airbnb instead of a hotel, so it's still a worthwhile service.

------
someonehere
Airbnb does not care about what hosts do. They just want to be the source of
short term rentals no matter what it takes. I’ve been hosed the last three
stays and Airbnb does not care.

I stay at hotels now because if I’m not happy with service, I can get a
different room, I can get a refund, I can talk to a human face to face.

Airbnb is a platform that just cares about hosting as many hosts as possible
and they’re unregulated. I’m not asking they be regulated, but why doesn’t
Airbnb check in on Super Hosts? It seems Super Hosts (from the three times I
got screwed) run their places by outsourcing cleaning and maintenance, without
ever spot checking.

------
Amygaz
My account on Airbnb has also most likely been hacked. Twice over the summer
someone tried to book using my Airbnb account and my expired CC. I hadn't used
Airbnb in 3 years.

Airbnb support was completely useless both times. So I cancelled my account
everything, and the CC support will deny any Airbnb transaction.

Anyway, it is so annoying to search anything on Airbnb that I am not compelled
to use it. The "host" will advertise a one night price that can easily double
with all the other fees, and double again for each additional nights.

I'll revisit when accountability standards are raised from the maker to the
user.

(edit: added "my account")

------
ragle
I wonder if I almost fell for this (or similar) in Pattaya, Thailand just a
few days ago?

[1] - [https://abnb.me/eUIhQCkMe1](https://abnb.me/eUIhQCkMe1)

[2] - [https://abnb.me/DvHRkqsMe1](https://abnb.me/DvHRkqsMe1)

At first, I thought maybe this was just a shady property management company
hocking two otherwise-legit, similarly-furnished condos with the same floor
plan in the same building through two different accounts - but they are in
different buildings separated by about half a kilometer according to the map.

------
Phillips126
I've never used AirBnb. However, when making online purchases (even for
physical items) I don't have a lot of trust. Many systems (reviews, ratings,
etc) are all too easily exploited. While the thought of staying at a stylish
house is more appealing than a room at a hotel chain, I at least know what I
am getting myself into. I've had my share of... not great rooms at hotels, but
they typically make it right with a room switch or reimbursement. It doesn't
sound like AirBnb is good at that.

------
dopamean
What a wild story. I search Austin property records for "shray goel" and the
guy owns a house literally around the corner from where I live. I wonder if
I've seen him around.

------
welly
This has happened to me, earlier this year. Luckily it was just for one night
and the room was low cost anyway (£35 for central London!) so should have seen
this coming.

Oddly enough, there was someone living in the switcheroo apartment I ended up
in and they were paying £800 a month!

I reported it to airbnb today after reading this story and checking that
listing's reviews, almost all of whom had reported the same problem and airbnb
have come back to say they've cancelled the host's account and listing.

------
ahaferburg
I once got a partial refund from Airbnb, but under the condition that I
couldn't post a review.

For that reason alone I will never use Airbnb again, and would advise against
it.

------
hpcjoe
Airbnb has had issue for a while. This[1] is a post I wrote about them in
2014. Basically, it is not in Airbnb's interests to provide quality control,
or stop these scams, as either action will negatively impact their revenue.

[1] [https://scalability.org/2014/03/ot-airbnb-and-their-
issues/](https://scalability.org/2014/03/ot-airbnb-and-their-issues/)

------
Seb-C
I used to love AirBnB at the beginning because it was a great way to meet
locals and live a bit like locals. Unfortunately it became too big and now it
is very hard to distinguish genuine residents interested in meeting tourists
from professionals that I will not meet at all and whose process is almost
completely automated. That completely ruins what was once an awesome human
experience.

I'd rather try couchsurfing or stay in a hotel...

------
flyGuyOnTheSly
Funny to see how internet giants treat their suppliers vs their customers.

eBay's sellers are up in arms because it's trivial for any customer to steal
from them and force a chargeback on an honest seller. Sellers cannot even
leave negative feedback for dishonest buyers anymore. The customer is king.

AirBnb is exactly the opposite, apparently. Screwing their customers for
scamming suppliers that should be trivial to uncover.

I wonder what economics are at play, here?

------
wil421
Like I said in another comment I would immediately call Amex and then file a
police report. There’s no way I would have stayed in that kind of place.

There are plenty of hotels in Chicago from Boutique to chains to roach motels.
Why subject yourself to so much crap by AirBnB? Especially if you’re alone.

[https://www.airbnbhell.com/](https://www.airbnbhell.com/)

------
dsr_
The solution is the same as it is for so many other issues: strict liability
for Airbnb. If the company is responsible for finding you a hotel room of
equivalent capacity and paying for any difference in price, the company will
quickly devote resources to minimizing this kind of fraud.

As long as it's not Airbnb's problem, Airbnb isn't going to solve it.

------
mykowebhn
Just curious, this post has more points in less time or about the same time as
other posts that appear higher.

Why is this not the number one post?

------
rhizome
$35B valuation being run like a $300K company, if that. There is no way AirBnB
is a legitimate company. They take in money that may or may not be the result
of actual crimes, particularly bait and switch and fraud, and the company has
ensured there is no way to know whether any reservation is legit.

------
forrestthewoods
Dumb question. Can you not “just” do a charge back? I feel like Amex would
refund me. Especially if there is any documentation.

I’d also wager that if every case of fraud had a chargeback to match that
AirBnB would start making changes far sooner rather than later.

Has anyone tried (or failed?) to chargeback AirBnB fraud?

------
alistairSH
Interestingly, as I was searching Airbnb today, I came across this...
[https://www.airbnb.com/plus](https://www.airbnb.com/plus)

It appears they do have some homes/hosts that are verified in-person. For
whatever that's worth.

------
trenning
Airbnb won't provide a full refund in many of the cases from the article but
shouldn't you still be able to file a charge back on your credit card and get
your money back without dealing with Airbnb?

Does it work like that or do I have a misunderstanding of how charge backs
work?

~~~
afjl
According to a number of posts, (some?) credit card companies have closely
partnered with AirBnB and will not accept your chargeback.

------
eatbitseveryday
How does this experience look when outside the USA? The article is only about
travelers inside the country and most comments seem to be so, too. When my
family travels, we usually leave the country.

------
balls187
> Airbnb only refunded me $399 of my $1,221.20 ... and I figured it was
> probably the best I could do.

Is there a reason Credit Card companies wouldn't step in here for the disputed
charge?

------
Muuuchem
Doesn't surprise me that they are filled with scams, yet they ban anyone who
has ever been in trouble for possessing any drug other than cannabis from
using their service.

------
cryptozeus
Wow that overstock barstool link comes across as a scam itself.

------
NelsonMinar
I don't understand why AirBnB doesn't take this kind of fraud more seriously.
All they have is their brand reputation. This kind of fraud will destroy that.

~~~
chippy
Why? As the last paragraph says, and many comments here echo, people will
still use the service. There is literally no reason why they should take it
more seriously unless they were a) socially minded or b) under legal
investigation.

------
htrp
Scaling the community is an existential growth problem for ABNB ...
unfortunately their policies haven't kept up with the problems that have been
introduced

------
veselin
This is a not very difficult problem to solve. Whenever there is a dispute,
send somebody to verify the property. For sure AirBnb already has an anti-
abuse team, so it is an extra step there. Also, disputes anyway cost them
money for the person that answers emails, sometimes do refunds, legal risk,
etc. So it will also not be more expensive.

It is one of these "growth" problems that a company is good to have and
normally solves in an easy way. Furthermore, the author is still an active
user of AirBnb.

------
the_watcher
Why didn't the author take photos of everything, then take the documentation
of what happened to his bank and issue a chargeback?

------
scarejunba
Interesting. When I signed up years ago to rent from Airbnb, I had to post
verification from passport photos to Facebook to LinkedIn.

------
lammalamma25
I've been living in Airbnbs while backpacking through Australia for the last
year. Here are some things I've learned for anyone needing some tips (Also
because I like to share stories)

Pictures on the rental are meaningless. Only the price and amenities matter.
Whatever the lowest 10% of price per night for a type of home (private vs
shared room etc) is probably a scam. Don't rent in this price range. Money may
be different for each person, but the upside of saving $100-$200 is way less
than the downside of a last minute booking in a place you're unfamiliar with.
I suspect most of the scams happening are people who book something that seems
too good to be true.

If you're able to, message the host prior to booking with a generic intro and
some generic questions. Many many times when the host got back to me for a
great looking listing, alarm bells went off and I moved on. I personally ask
what their internet speed is. If they don't know this its not a deal breaker,
but their response can be pretty telling.

A lot of professional renters list on Airbnb. Especially multi-bedroom houses
where you rent one bedroom. These can go either way, but are often a good
deal. I personally like these because its a business transaction for both
sides. Usually these types of listings are more open to negotiating on price,
but its not staying in someone's home like an Airbnb might be pictured.

Reviews don't mean too much, but number of reviews and/or super host are
pretty good barometers for quality. It is much harder to fake a lot of
reviews. A less obvious red flag is the age of the listing vs number of
reviews. If there are only 3-4 high reviews on something around for a long
time, look closely at it. Even if the reviews aren't fake. There is a lot of
incentive to not review a bad experience. Unfortunately price usually
correlates with number of reviews.

I've personally never booked a new listing (no reviews). I'd be interested to
know if I'm passing on some amazing deals, but my risk/reward tolerance
doesn't allow it.

TLDR; Ignore the pictures look at price range compared to the marker and
message hosts before booking at all.

Adjacent tip: Bring the bare basics with you (maybe this is backpacker logic
talking). I usually have a knife/fork/spoon as well as some toilet paper and
enough close to be warm without blanks. Don't rely on them to have things you
absolutely can't survive without. Its stupid you have to do this, but you can
rest a little easier having it with you if something goes wrong.

------
Marazan
Airbnb is a scumbag company that knowingly profits off of active criminality.

It is shocking that they are in any way considered a _good_ company.

------
misiti3780
I'm using Airbnb in Paris and Spain in a few weeks - if this happened to me -
what exactly should I do ?

------
rhacker
I'm probably never using AirBNB after reading this, and many of the stories I
am seeing in HN.

------
Havoc
Yeah airbnb is hit & miss even without scammers. Prefer hotels where possible

------
elamje
There needs to be more vetting to avoid this situation entirely.

------
senthilnayagam
in India I tried finding Airbnb’s in mumbai and hyderabad, some were hotels
and guest houses, others were shady and often misrepresented.

------
MaysonL
Gresham's Law hits the sharing economy…

------
RenRav
TLDR the listings are fake.

You book a nice house and they'll tell you a problem came up, but they offer
to switch to a different one. The alternative house is cheap and run down,
it's their real property though. When you switch and stay one night at the
alternative, you can't get a full refund. Because so many bail out and leave,
expecting to be refunded, they can make it available to rent again
immediately. You're also pressured into not leaving negative reviews, so the
cycle continues.

------
willyt
Bear with me there is a point to my preamble... So in the UK if you buy a
train ticket and the train is late and as a result you miss a connection to,
say, a ferry then the train company is obliged to put you right. For example,
by putting you up in a hotel until you can take the next ferry or finding
another way for you to continue your journey so you don't miss the ferry. I
once had a free 100 mile taxi journey because the train was late and I was
going to miss my connection which would have required an overnight stay.

I am not a lawyer (also this is UK law) but I would be really interested for a
lawyer to comment on this, because my understanding is that the reason they do
this is because the train timetable is an 'invitation to treat' on which you
based your decision to enter into a contract with them by purchasing a ticket
to transport you from A to B. If they fail to do this in a timely fashion as
advertised on the timetable, such that your journey with them is wasted, this
is a breach of contract and contract law says that because they failed to
honour the contract, they have to, as close as possible, put you back in the
position you were in if you had not entered into the contract with them. They
can not get out of this with T&Cs because its a basic principal that if you
offer one thing obviously and then say the opposite hidden in the small print,
the more prominent offer is what you are held to.

In this case (again, remember I am not a lawyer but on the assumption that the
same basic principals were to apply) my theory is that the problem is AirBNB's
to resolve because the contract would be between me and AirBNB because the
money changed hands between me and AirBNB. So if AirBNB advertised 3 nights in
a city for £1500, I paid this and then I arrive and the host cancels my
reservation at the last minute, after I have expended considerable time and
expense already with the expectation that I have accommodation, I would ignore
the host and contact AirBNB directly because I paid them the full cost of the
booking and the fact that they subcontracted the actual service to someone
else is none of my business, it is ultimately their problem to make sure the
contract is honoured by putting me up in another equivalent place or by
providing a full refund and paying any additional costs involved in me staying
in the closest equivalent place available.

So I wonder, if they don't do this within a reasonable time, could I stay
somewhere else and then file small claims court case against them for the
cost? If the 1/3rd refund thing from another comment had happened to me I
would certainly be tempted to try it to get £1000 + hotel bills back + cost of
my time to prepare evidence for the claim at my standard hourly rate.

I have experienced one or two situations where companies have tried to rip me
off and taking 30mins to tell them in writing that I will claim, how I will do
it, what my grounds for the claim are and how much it will cost them has got
them to back down and agree a refund and compensation before I got anywhere
near having to fill out the online form for the small claims court, which is
apparently not a big deal anyway. No idea if I would have won or how much time
and cost is involved though... In general, if people would stick up for their
rights more, then the costs of shady business practices like this would make
them unprofitable.

Could be a great business idea for an online lawyering startup, like those
that exist for flight compensation claims.

------
alias_neo
A few years back my wife and I went to Dubrovnik, this is before it went nuts
due to GoT, I should add.

We went there with a couple of friends planning to have their wedding there,
traveling from our homes in London.

We booked two air BnB rooms, both were very nice looking double rooms in
central locations next to the old town.

We arrived at the address we'd been given and a local guy "owner", greeted us
and took us for a short walk to where we'd be staying.

We arrived at an older looking home, high walls and a large metal gate. He
opened it and welcomed us to his home. His grandma's home he told us.

He walked us inside and showed us to a box room with two wooden bunk-beds, the
type you put children in. The floor was flooded and the small ensuite was too,
flooded.

The look on our faces might have said enough if we hadn't, but we certainly
were not staying there.

He suggested he'd try find some "alternative" accomodation. We waited nearby,
and a short time later he arrived to show us each to locations he'd found.

First our friends, a nice newish apartment, they were quite happy with,
although it was smaller than what they had booked, but still pleasant enough.

He took my wife and I around the corner and into a small home that had painted
cement walls, flaking like you see in war films, after the war has been
through.

An old man showed us to a small double room where he'd laid a bowl of fruit on
the bed for us, he didn't speak English, but although we didn't speak his
language either, we felt welcome, albeit slightly uncomfortable.

The place wasn't particularly clean or nice looking, and certainly not what we
paid for, but after a bit of a dead end with the original guy we booked with,
we figured he's guy is farming off rooms that don't exist and then subletting
rooms in others' homes when guests arrived.

We decided we'd take it, but we needed to see the bathroom first.

Again, not clean, not pleasant, but worst of all, a small window, just above
the shower opened into the old man's room, and it was open, is wasn't frosted
and there was no way to cover it.

That was it for my wife, that was one bridge too far. She can't comfortably
bath in there with a window opening into this stranger's room in a strange
place.

We told the owner guy it wasn't going to work for us, and this is where the
rest of this story breaks my heart.

The owner guy let the old man know we wouldn't stay, and the old guy broke
down, he was begging us to stay, he was gesturing at the fruit he'd laid out,
questioning what was wrong, but we just couldn't stay there.

The rest of what happened to us is irrelevant here, but the guy we'd booked
with was clearly taking bookings he was farming out to elderly locals with any
space to spare hoping renters works take whatever he offered.

Both sides of this deal were being scammed, and it broke my heart to know that
although we might end up forking out to stay elsewhere was the worst we might
suffer through this, this old man clearly needed whatever small part of the
rent we paid was going to be given to him.

The rooms we saw online clearly didn't exist, this guy was just conning people
because AirBnb allowed it to happen.

------
skydv1
tldr?

------
fortran77
Please note that Y Combinator is an investor in Airbnb.

[https://www.wired.com/2017/02/airbnbs-surprising-path-to-
y-c...](https://www.wired.com/2017/02/airbnbs-surprising-path-to-y-
combinator/)

------
as-j
Why didn't the journalist contact Airbnb in the first place? Or after he
arrived at the 2nd place and it wasn't the location listed/promised. (yes I
can understand being tired, frustrated, etc)

Last minute host cancellation is the one thing they can actually something
they help with since it ruins the marketplace for them.

As a host I've had my set of horror storied interacting with Airbnb. Most
hosts do try really hard, but every marketplace has scams at some level, and
I'm not sure how you could find them all once it's under some value/size.

~~~
jrochkind1
Of course the scammers are good at "frog in the boiling water" level of scam,
so it always seems like it will be easier and "I guess good enough" to just
keep going.

But I don't think I would ever try to contact AirBnB "in the moment" (when I'm
in a city not my own and need a place to sleep and trying to do whatever I'm
in the city to do), since I've been trained to expect that any support from
such companies is going to be very inconvenient, take lots of my energy, and
take at a minimum hours (if not days) to resolve. Hours I don't have, when i'm
trying to enjoy my vacation or whatever.

If AirBnB _wants_ customers to contact the company immediately whenever
anything looks fishy, they probably need to educate customers on that (with
examples of what sorts of fishy things they'd like you to contact them asap
about), as well as providing enough resources to customer support such that
doing so actually helps instead of just adding more headache to an already
painful situation. But I doubt AirBnB really wants customers to do that.

From the OP for instance:

> If a host asks a guest to stay at a property that’s different from the one
> they rented, Airbnb advises the guest to request a cancellation if they’re
> “not okay with the switch.” In both cases, the rules favor a would-be
> scammer and place the onus on guests who have just parachuted into an
> unfamiliar locale with their luggage and have nowhere else to stay that
> night.

~~~
as-j
I've been lucky (?) as a guest and never had a serious issue.

But friends have, and a phone call fixed the problem in the instance actually
fixed the problem.

As a host I've had guests call airbnb and ask for exceptions for my
cancelation policy (which is moderate) and have airbnb grant them and cancel
booking at the last minute, or after check-in time and do 100% refunds. (or at
least I get $0)

So while you might be trained that way, and it's understandable, they publish
their number and make it pretty available to guests. Maybe the problem is
labeling it an emergency number? (I take emergencies as huge deals so
naturally avoid calling emergency numbers)

It's a shitty situation and I don't really want to blame the victim. I just
really wanted to point out there's an number you can call for help and if you
call it earlier they can help you. In case it helps someone nn the US its:
+1-855-424-7262

