
Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies [2010] - swombat
http://godheadv.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/abandoned-on-everest.html
======
exDM69
Climbing Everest has become more and more ridiculous year after year. What was
once a frontier pushing expedition has turned into a sport for rich idiots who
are practically being dragged up and down the mountain by their sherpas and
expedition leaders. There may be an occasional experienced climber but mostly
the mountain is filled with rich tourists who have hardly any climbing skills.

This is well portrayed in the Discovery documentary Everest, which shows a
group of people attempting to get to the summit. The mountain is so full of
people that are queues of people waiting in line while inexperienced climbers
ahead move slowly through the bottle necks (narrow ledges and ladders, etc).

The documentary also portrays the death of climber David Sharp [1] who was
left to die up in the mountain. In the documentary, it is shown that he was
found during descent in a very bad condition. There is some controversy if
this is true and whether he was actually found on the ascent instead. If he
was found during the descent, leaving him might be considered acceptable since
the party who found him would have been exhausted, low on oxygen and the
daylight fading fast.

But if the situation is (as some have suggested, and the Wikipedia article
says) that he was actually found on ascent and left to die while going for the
summit instead, it is very morally questionable thing to do. Going to the
summit, which is essentially only a tourist attraction at this point, instead
of attempting to save a man's life is something that I might never comprehend.
Even if the chances of saving that man were slim, not attempting the rescue is
questionable.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sharp_(mountaineer)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sharp_\(mountaineer\))

~~~
pavelrub
I think you are making several incorrect and unfair generalizations.

Calling those climbers "rich idiots" is unnecessary, and hugely inaccurate.
Nearly all guided Everest expeditions require previous high-peak
mountaineering experience to join the expedition, in places such as Aconcagua
and Denali [1][2][3]. Technical familiarity with crampons, ice-axe, etc' is a
must, and a high level of fitness is required.

People who join those expeditions are not "rich idiots" who think they are
going on a cruise. They are amateur climbers with money, who are interested in
broadening their climbing experience and achieving their personal goals.

Guiding companies provide a relatively safe opportunity for those climbers to
achieve this, as this is something they cannot do by themselves.

I also wouldn't be so quick to pass moral judgments on things that happen
8000+ meters above sea level, in conditions of extreme fatigue, after several
weeks of hiking/climbing. What you think you would do while sitting on a chair
in front of your computer is not necessarily what you would've done were you
actually there.

I recommend reading something like Into thin Air [4] to get a better
perspective on what happens on those climbs.

[1]
[http://www.alpineascents.com/everest.asp](http://www.alpineascents.com/everest.asp)
[2]
[http://www.rmiguides.com/himalaya/everest/](http://www.rmiguides.com/himalaya/everest/)
[3]
[http://www.adventureconsultants.com/adventure/FAQEverest/](http://www.adventureconsultants.com/adventure/FAQEverest/)
[4] [http://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-
Disaster/dp/038...](http://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-
Disaster/dp/0385494785)

~~~
mailshanx
Well, ice-axe and crampon competency is the _bare_ minimum necessary to even
step on a snow mountain. Granted that Denali is a hard climb, but still, if
that has been your only climbing experience you are woefully unprepared to
attempt Everest.

~~~
pavelrub
Thanks for your input on what's required to climb Everest. I will pass that on
to Ed Viesturs [1] from RMI Expeditions so that he will change the
requirements listed on their website, based on your superior experience of
actually taking up climbers to the summit.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Viesturs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Viesturs)

------
freerobby
Lots of posts here questioning why someone would climb Everest. I've never
done it but I have a bit of mountaineering under my belt, and there was a time
when I would've loved the opportunity to attempt earth's largest.

It's not just about danger. In addition to the element of challenge and
personal achievement that a few have alluded to, mountaineering provides one
of the most beautiful and serene experiences imaginable.

Have you ever attempted a physical feat as awe-inspiring as this?
[http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-XCFxjcs/0/X3...](http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-XCFxjcs/0/X3/DSC_1455-X3.jpg)

Have you ever appreciated the vastness of nature as much as standing beneath
seracs as big as buildings?
[http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-2QddZdv/1/X3...](http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-2QddZdv/1/X3/DSC_1557-X3.jpg)

Have you ever climbed alongside peaks so beautiful that they look surreal?
[http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-ZbZFvzL/0/X3...](http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-ZbZFvzL/0/X3/DSC_1627-X3.jpg)

Have you ever walked on a receding glacier that has been there for millions of
years?
[http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-pStmFNs/0/X3...](http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-pStmFNs/0/X3/DSC_1633-X3.jpg)

Have you ever succeeded at a physical feat that looks less than possible?
[http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-tQ5cg7v/1/X3...](http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-tQ5cg7v/1/X3/DSC_1815-X3.jpg)

Have you ever woken up in the morning, gone outside your tent, and looked
_down_ at the clouds?
[http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-hgC65Lv/1/X3...](http://photos.freerobby.com/Adventures/Denali/i-hgC65Lv/1/X3/DSC_1882-X3.jpg)

I can only imagine how awesome these things would feel, how beautiful these
scenes would be, on a mountain the size of Everest, especially when you
consider the beauty of the Himalayan ranges around it.

There are as many good reasons to climb mountains as there are bad ones. Most
people have vices. Most people take risks. Mine have been extremely rewarding.

~~~
thaumaturgy
I made an attempt on Mount Rainier years ago, on the Kautz route.
Unfortunately, we didn't make the final push to the top from high camp
(13,000+ feet) -- it was unseasonably warm, the ice didn't freeze up
overnight, which made it dangerous.

It still stands out as one of the most personally rewarding things I've ever
done.

Some people are content, I guess, with experiencing the world behind a
computer or TV screen.

All I can say is that I am not happy with that. It makes me feel ... blunt,
dull, glassy. Half-alive. I have to go out and see things, I have to try to do
difficult things occasionally, or I'm not happy.

I've been working on my business, spending most of my time behind a computer,
for the last few years. I just started training this year to get back into
mountaineering shape, joined Sierra Mountaineering Club
([http://www.sierramountaineeringgroup.org/](http://www.sierramountaineeringgroup.org/)),
and replacing my aging gear.

I need this as much as someone needs social time, or time alone, or time on a
hobby. It is nutrition for my soul.

------
zamalek
The author talks about the different accounts of the people who came across
the not-yet-entirely-dead-corpse. Two acquaintances of mine (who are extremely
good friends with each other) will be attempting to summit Everest in the next
two years. Here's the crazy thing:

They have promised each other that if one is injured or cannot continue and if
they are past a point of no return, the other will not only leave the friend
there to die - but also take his oxygen tank. In a very surreal, inexplicable
and ironic way that's the beauty of human nature. I would not consider the
risk viable myself but it amazes me how a person who is staring into the black
abyss of the possibility of death would encourage their friend to let them die
alone.

Their perspective changed my attitude toward Everest climbers from "idiots" to
people who have true character - certainly more than I do behind my little
computer screen here.

~~~
tluyben2
I consider this very strange and alien and I would really like to know what
drives people to do this as I don't have this drive myself at all. I take
risks, big risks, but not with my life or other their lives, just with money.

I do hope they don't have children / spouses / parents they will leave behind
in case of something bad happens, otherwise I definitely would call them
idiots. No matter how 'your loved ones support you in your decision' ; that
turns out to be mostly bullshit when they are dead and you are left behind
(from experience in a few of these cases; not mountain climbing but other
extreme sports). Very selfish indeed. Not really worth much or deserving of
any respect. Why not do something worthwhile like help wounded in a warzone,
at least then your risk makes some sense?

~~~
zamalek
> they don't have children / spouses /

No they don't - I definitely wouldn't respect them if they took a risk like
that.

------
swombat
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1978295](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1978295)

But I thought it could use a repost, 3 years later, as many ma not have seen
it, and it was quite interesting.

------
rwmj
What exactly is the point of climbing Everest?

It adds nothing to the sum of human achievements. It's hardly a personal
triumph. If you want to get very fit - a worthy goal - there are plenty of
other ways to do that. It's also selfish, expensive and dangerous, for you and
others.

~~~
tobiasu
What is the point of life? Before you declare others selfish, maybe start at
your own front door.

~~~
coldtea
> _What is the point of life?_

Being good and helping each other instead of climbing stupid mountains for
machismo?

------
michaelt
The article says bodies are left around for years and very hard to recover.
But the photos on the article make it look like it's easy enough to get close
for a photo.

Does anyone know why they can't simply send people up with all the modern
technology like bottled oxygen to remove the bodies?

~~~
jasonkester
Bear in mind the conditions around said body. It's not a nice place. It's
hazardous enough that this particular mountaineer, with presumably a lot of
skill and a long history of successful mountaineering, actually died just by
trying to walk beyond that point.

Now imagine that your rescuer, having successfully bettered Mr. Body's
achievement by getting to his high point alive, now has to perform the
strenuous physical labor of digging Mr. B. out of the solid packed ice,
picking up his 200 pound corpse, and carrying it the entire way back down to
base camp.

What odds would you give our rescuer of surviving that task? 100%? Perhaps
somewhat less than 100%? Less than 50%, much of which depends on factors
outside anybody's control?

Would you volunteer for that job?

------
awjr
I'm guessing the issues here are to do with the extreme danger you "choose" to
put yourself into. You are 100% responsible for your well being and you don't
expect or want other people to risk their lives for the situation you have put
yourself into.

Obviously you have the support of your 'team', but if you go off on your own,
then it really is your responsibility and yours alone.

This attitude also pervades "cave diving". Anything can and does happen and,
as a diver, you understand the risks you are taking when exploring new cave
systems and take full responsibility. It's an extremely risky "sport".

~~~
kfk
Where do you do cave diving? Damn, I grew up with it and: 1) safety is king,
always, we always have 2 nails for 1 rope and 3 if possible for example; 2)
nobody dares to call this a sport; 3) in Italy we have a special team of
volunteers that trains periodically to go saving people in caves. Nobody has
ever been left to die and I have never heard of anybody taking stupid risks.

------
JonnieCache
The full story of the 1996 everest disaster is very interesting/scary:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mount_Everest_disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mount_Everest_disaster)

The book/film "into thin air" is supposedly good too.

EDIT: the other good climbing disaster film to watch is "touching the void."
powerful stuff.

~~~
swatkat
I recommend reading both the books - "The Climb" by Anatoli Boukreev, and
"Into Thin Air" by Jon Krakauer.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Climb_(book)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Climb_\(book\))

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_Thin_Air](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_Thin_Air)

------
qwerta
There is lot of 'garbage' on every high profile mountain, in Alps there is
often poop right on trail.

I personally prefer climbing without gear on less known places. 1 mile high in
one day from sea level is enough exercise.

------
dschiptsov
There were several attempts to clean up the Everest since 2010 by Nepalese
govt using some military personnel. Can't tell whether or not they were
successful.

~~~
csmithuk
I imagine it added to the problem!

~~~
dschiptsov
Bad joke. Those dead tourists are overconfident individuals, who tried to do
it alone. On the other hand, Sherpas, who organize expeditions nowadays are
very well trained and coordinated. There are many of them who have ascended
more than 5 times as poters or guides, while there is one person who did it 14
times. It is just a job for Sherpas.

According to official statements, around 500 people, including about 300
tourists ascended mt.Everest last year, in a short 15 April - 10 May window.

Nowadays even local pop stars were managed to get to the top. Sherpas are
doing great job and raised the safity livel to unimaginable heights.

------
ck2
So do we have a reposting bot on HN now?

Finds highly rated links that are a year old and reposts?

I posted this like a year ago with the exact same title.

~~~
ck2
Not sure why this was downvoted except maybe to try to hide it.

I wrote that title, it is not from the article, it was before HN editors
reverted titles.

Found my original post from three years ago

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1978295](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1978295)

So it is a direct copy of my post with verbatim title copied.

------
simonswords82
R-r-r-r-repost...

------
johnclass
I suppose climbing Everest is only a little less selfish than having children.

