
Spray-on liquid glass is about to revolutionize almost everything - morganpyne
http://www.physorg.com/news184310039.html
======
steveklabnik
> February 2, 2010

Yep. The year of spray-on liquid glass on the desktop!

( Previously: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1092741> )

~~~
morganpyne
Damn, well caught. I normally check the dates but didn't notice this was
already a year old. Sorry for the old dupe. Wonder if it's now actually
available anywhere. The description of this stuff is almost unbelievable and I
wonder if they have found any downsides to it in the past year.

~~~
steveklabnik
No worries, it's really cool stuff. I haven't heard of any further
developments yet.

~~~
ximeng
<http://www.nanopool.eu/en/news/57-end-of-year-review-2010>

Here's their year-end review: a burst of publicity in February, and then
hardly anything apart from a November article in "Cleanroom Technology".
They're using it to coat toys in a children's hospital allowing kids that
would not normally be allowed to play with the toys at all to use them.

------
ryanwaggoner
This seems like the kind of report they'd show as a flashback in a post-
apocalyptic film :)

~~~
sophacles
I'm going to start a pool. Buy in is $200 equivalent[1] per square. The board
will be a 3 dimensional matrix, whose axis are:

1\. The amount of time from now the collapse occurs. (most likely a logrithmic
scale)

2\. How far civilization falls, e.g. "back to the 19th century" or "back to
the stone age"[2].

3\. How "wierd" this makes the world, e.g. are there 40 degree temperature
shifts in the afternoon in San Diego and warm beaches in Antarctica. Are there
now hyper-intelligent wasps running the show. Do we discuss the "fragility of
the fabric of space-time" much more frequently.. and so on.[3]

Finally, every "square" is actually in a state of superposition, based on the
answer to the question "are there zombies[4] now" at the time of selection.
Therefore if you are sure 10 days from now, early 16th century avg tech, wierd
factor of .09, put in $400 worth of goods to catch the both zombies outcomes.

Winners will be chosen at the END of the collapse, before the rebuilding
period. The winners will be given the location and secret combination to enter
the cache. Transport and armed escort will not be provied by me or any other
participant of this pool, (except by other arrangement out of scope of the
pool) nor will any other form of survivability enhancement until reaching the
cache.

[1] Entry fee must be in the form of non-perishable food, ammo, guns and other
items traditionally considered valuable post-apocalypse

[2] Avg tech level does not include the fact that various warlords, mad
scientists, intelligent creatures and other bad guys will have access to
various tech remnants and caches... This is strictly about the level of
technology and civilization available to the average person.

[3] Weirdness factor algorithm tbd, but it will be normalized on a 0-1 scale,
with the current state of the US being .27.

[4] Zombies here includes both new and old style zombies, some forms of
mutant, possibly mind-control victims, and certain types of insectoid horde.
All other types of undead, mutants and creatures, as well as those with
supernatural powers are actually just manifestations of the wierd factor (see
[3]).

~~~
pavel_lishin
> This is strictly about the level of technology and civilization available to
> the average person.

So, um. How would you define this now, given that right now I have three
computers within easy reach, a big-screen television and a game console in a
heated apartment with lights and a gas stove - while somewhere across the
world, someone is hoping they find enough water to drink so they can finish
building their mud-hut before the wolves come?

Bonus points for pointing out that while my girlfriend is playing a post-
apocalyptic video game, someone is probably doing almost exactly what she's
doing, except with a real gun against real people?

~~~
sophacles
I will arbitrarily define it at the time of the collapses, based on my rough
knowledge of history and completely arbitrary whim, by looking around me and
deciding everything based on the people I see.

Oddly, I lost a bet to myself with you comment, I figgured the first bit of
pedantry would be over my statement regarding prizes being awarded at the end
of the collapse. Such a thing is:

1\. Even harder to judge

2\. A much less useful time to be giving out caches of valuable supplies than
the bits on the way down.

Anyway, given it is an apocalypse, odds are neither of us would survive,
strictly statistically speaking, so who cares how I judge. If I remain alive,
I am honestly not going to wait around for you for the argument given you are
most likely dead, and I hope for your sake you would do the same for me by
prying the cache location out of my dead hands.

As for your girlfriend's game: I have heard, and seen myself, that even the
places that are most "terrifying ugly and bad" (first hand: the slums of
Detroit and Pre-Katrina new Orleans, second hand: mogadishu, slums of bombay,
etc) are surprisingly civilized. The "crazy fight for survival" based
entertainment scenarios are about as realistic as the "evil corporation",
"massive government conspiracy" and "small team of highly trained operatives"
ones are. Such things may exist, but they are both more boring and more
interesting than any such entertainment ever will be. Just sayin...

------
qq66
Whenever they claim that something will revolutionize everything, it ends up
in disappointment.

The things that actually do revolutionize everything are usually pooh-poohed
at the beginning ("Another search engine?")

~~~
dools
Remember when Dean Kamen claimed that the Segway would change the way we built
cities? Most hilarious product launch ever.

~~~
ceejayoz
Talk about overpromising and underdelivering. I remember people speculating
that he'd designed a compact, powerful hydrogen fuel cell, hoverboard or
something similar.

~~~
jonah
Like either of those would be massively revolutionary either.

~~~
neworbit
Well, by comparison...

~~~
jonah
There already are portable fuel cells, you still have to get the Hydrogen
somewhere. Now if the Orbo worked, that'd be something different.

As for a hoverboard - sure it's technically more interesting than a Segway,
but would it truly revolutionize anything?

~~~
pyre

      > As for a hoverboard - sure it's technically more interesting
      > than a Segway, but would it truly revolutionize anything
    

It would for the cast of Back to the Future on Ice. ;-)

Seriously though, I think that the technology behind a hoverboard would
probably have far more implications than the technology behind the Segway. The
product itself might not revolutionize much, but the technology behind it
would.

~~~
maushu
I agree, the hoverboard itself would revolutionize much (well, maybe for
skaters), but the technology behind would change how we travel; Heck, we could
use it to decrease the weight of the cars we currently use at least.

------
jjcm
What if it flakes off? How structurally stable is it? If a wide variety of
things start using it, will it increase the risk of silicosis
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis>) when using these products?

~~~
hagy
Concerns of breathing in this silicate have been popping up a lot in this
discussion (especially concerns about silicosis). I’d just like to point out
that we’re discussing very small quantities; nano-coatings of ~100nm, only
15-30 molecules high as mentioned in the articles. Wikipedia states that the
silicate clusters ascribed to silicosis each have a diameter of ~10 microns;
each clusters is 100 times larger than the thickness of this coating.
Additionally, the article states that the silicate coating chemically bond to
the applied surface. Such silicate bonds only cleave at high temperatures (500
deg C) so the coating won’t evaporate off under ambient conditions.

~~~
rapind
I'm actually far less alarmed about the material. It sounds pretty great. What
worries me is this fixation we seem to have with eliminating bacteria... Isn't
there a downside to this?

If we spread it around as much as this article describes it seems to me like
we'd greatly sanitize our environment... What happens if we greatly reduce the
amount of bacteria we're exposed to daily due to some sort of invention like
nano spray-on glass?

~~~
scotty79
First bacteria that figures out how to stick to this will have nice place to
live and develop, plenty of human associated food and no competition.

~~~
VMG
So we have to engineer the bacteria ourself and make it defend our precious
silicon coating.

------
jbri
Nanoscale silicon material with desireable physical properties?

Sounds a little asbestosy to me.

~~~
afterburner
Yeah, I was just thinking, "what if it gets into my lungs?"

~~~
Splines
Have no fear, consumer; it's breathable, so there's nothing to worry about.

~~~
bobds
How about applying a coating to your lungs? Then they can't get dirty from all
the glass nanoparticles flying around.

~~~
leoc
Would you recommend Marlboro or Camels? :)

~~~
lanstein
Camels, obviously! More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette!

------
radicaldreamer
Yawn... I always see claims like this made about almost every new advance in
materials science, but I hardly ever see these products reach the market.

~~~
NyxWulf
Not only is this already a product, it's already on sale in Germany and other
countries in europe.

<http://www.nanopool.biz/>

Product demonstration: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEgfdr7GKow>

I don't know why it isn't for sale in the US at this point. But this is not
vapor-ware.

------
juiceandjuice
The lack of understanding about possible cancerous effects of nano materials
worries me, especially with stuff like this and "nanocosmetic" materials. I'd
just hate to find out 20 years down the road that all of our miracle materials
were slowly killing us.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The lack of understanding about possible cancerous effects of wifi worries me,
especially with stuff like this and "cellular" phones.

The lack of understanding about possible cancerous effects of CRT screens
worries me, especially with stuff like this and "digital" displays.

The lack of understanding about possible cancerous effects of GMO food worries
me...

The lack of understanding about possible cancerous effects of inert silicone
gel breast implants worries me...

Someone over 30 can fill in earlier examples: "The lack of understanding about
possible cancerous effects of $NEW_TECHNOLOGY_I_DONT_UNDERSTAND worries me.
I'd just hate to find out 20 years down the road that $NEW_TECHNOLOGY was
slowly killing us. "

~~~
jbri
The lack of understanding about possible adverse effects of asbestos worries
me...

Oh wait, it _is_ actually pretty nasty stuff. Now, while the "20 years down
the road" thing is a bit silly, a lack of understanding about potential
adverse effects is a reason to investigate further, _not_ to dismiss anyone
who's cautious about it as paranoid.

~~~
ellyagg
Society's track record is pretty good, then. Deaths attributable to asbestos
are extremely rare in the scheme of things. Sensational headlines and
ambulance chasing lawyers fool our primitive brain's broken probabilistic
reasoning circuitry into making bad risk assessments. Given the overwhelming
improvement in health and lifespan due to new material development and
widespread use, I'd say we've been consistently making the right trade-offs.
So, yeah, I'm firmly in the "OP is being paranoid" camp.

~~~
juiceandjuice
Extremely rare compared to what? Compared to the entire population of the
United States? Maybe. Compared to the population of those directly and
continuously exposed? Not so much. We don't use that much asbestos anymore for
a reason, and it's not because we found something better to replace it.

I'm not advocating we abandon nanomaterial research by any means. I'm _hoping_
that it's widespread use and adoption doesn't outpace research of it's effects
on humans given it's similarities with asbestos.

~~~
yummyfajitas
_Extremely rare compared to what? Compared to the entire population of the
United States?_

Compared to other health threats in the US. Before the 60's and 70's,
Asbestosis was a minor concern except for people with occupational exposure
(e.g. asbestos miners). Much bigger and more pressing issues were polio,
malaria, measles, and the like.

Once we became rich and healthy enough to care about it, we dealt with it. It
was hardly an unknown threat, just a minor one.

~~~
juiceandjuice
Yes, the dangers of Asbestos were limited to people exposed to asbestos. It
was an occupational hazard, and the uses of asbestos were largely commercial
and industrial in nature.

As such, Asbestos was never directly marketed to consumers. Asbestos exposure
was also limited because it's relatively narrow scope of usefulness. Asbestos
was never a cultural phenomenon.

The extremely wide range of usefulness of nanotech means that it will show up
in everything everywhere. Of specific concern should be anything designed to
be airborne or directly applied directly on somebody. The product in question
directly matches that description. Furthermore, this product is aimed directly
at consumers, and the article even mentions how it is about to "revolutionize
everything", alluding to widespread adoption and use.

I'd hate for something like this to be plastered over keyboards, door knobs,
floors and countertops, sunglasses, shoes, phones, surgical equipment, dishes
and silverware, headphones, cosmetics, etc... Those are the targets for
something like this. You know, things you touch and use every day.

------
Eliezer
Every time I see the phrase "revolutionize everything" I want to find someone
to take that bet with me at odds of no worse than 9-1.

------
light3
It said in the article that they tested this on plants.. what happens when the
fruit grow does the coating expand?

------
callmeed
I wonder if using the word "glass" is a good idea.

I could see some public outcry when people hear that their hamburger and
catheter has a "thin glass coating".

Perhaps it will have a brand name later ...

~~~
radicaldreamer
The nonstick coating wore off your pan? Nonstick coat your food!

------
dools
Finally!! A prediction from "Back to the Future" comes true!! We can get rid
of our pesky dust jackets off our books and have _dust free paper_!!

------
Tyrant505
Indeed, the possibilities of a spray with these properties are infinite. In
spirit of hn, I imagine coating my mobo/cpu/gpu for safe and easy, fan-less,
liquid cooling! Fill it up and maybe throw a jellyfish in there for good
measure...

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>I imagine coating my mobo/cpu/gpu for safe and easy, fan-less, liquid
cooling!

Isn't glass a thermal insulator? I guess a thin layer wouldn't create too
great a temperature gradient. Sounds a nice idea. Of course you could do this
now with a non-ionic liquid (oil?) but I don't fancy your jellyfishes chances.

------
ilitirit
Spray-on liquid glass is about to revolutionize almost everything 11 months
ago.

------
tjansen
Seems like you can buy it in Germany since 2007 (www.dienanoexperten.eu /
www.der-nano-shop.de). Never heard about it before, so I guess it can't be
that revolutionary, but maybe I give it a try...

------
elptacek
What rolls down stairs? Alone or in pairs? What rolls over your neighbor's
dog? Spray-on liquid glass!

~~~
jodrellblank
What fits on your back? is great for a snack?
<http://www.inventables.com/technologies/water-soluble-glass>

------
bsiemon
Other outlets, such as many supermarkets, may be unwilling to stock the
products because they make enormous profits from cleaning products that need
to be replaced regularly, and liquid glass would make virtually all of them
obsolete

Likely why the revolution has not arrived.

------
conorgil145
_The coating is environmentally harmless and non-toxic, and easy to clean
using only water or a simple wipe with a damp cloth. It repels bacteria, water
and dirt, and resists heat, UV light and even acids._

How can you use water to clean it if it repels water?

~~~
lwat
How do you wash your teflon pans?

~~~
neworbit
I misread this as teflon pants and thought "pretty specialty purpose but I bet
it'd make cleanup easy"...

~~~
kragen
Teflon is Du Pont's brand name for polytetrafluoroethylene. Gore-Tex is Gore &
Associates's brand name for thermo-mechanically expanded
polytetrafluoroethylene. Gore-Tex is commonly used to make pants. Given that
you wrote "Teflon" in lower-case, they probably qualify as "teflon pants" to
you.

------
theklub
what company makes this and when can I invest?

------
mike463
This isn't that new... I've always been told glass is already a liquid. :)

~~~
bch
I've heard that too, but recently saw:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions#C...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions#Chemistry)

------
fuzzythinker
Somewhat related -- Spray-on Solar cells:
[http://www.google.com/search?&q=spray-
on+solar+cells](http://www.google.com/search?&q=spray-on+solar+cells)

------
webXL
yawn... Get back to me when you have transparent aluminum.

~~~
bpd1069
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_aluminium>

"To create transparent aluminium, more power than is used by an entire city
had to be focused into a dot with a diameter of less than one-twentieth the
thickness of a human hair, and then could only maintain the transparent state
for 40 femtoseconds."

And its only transparent to the X-rays that are needed to knock out the
electron in the L-shell.

~~~
lwat
What about aluminium oxide, does that count?

------
aik
It says it only lasts for about a year. What happens to it? Does it steadily
degrade over time, or is it exponential towards the end?

------
mmaunder
Interesting demos of the tech:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPWews7tj_k>

------
aidenn0
Sounds like it would be useful to coat aramid composites, since many aramids
decompose in UV

------
astrofinch
If everything is sterile, how will our immune systems get any practice?

~~~
Sapient
Spray-on glass isn't going to make this situation much worse than it already
is.

------
monkeypizza
this looks like the stuff: (taobao link)
<http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=5777316505>

------
jtchang
I wonder how you remove this kind of coating? Sandblast it?

~~~
WiseWeasel
Easy, just heat to 500 degrees C.

------
adolph
Hmm, I was hoping for spray-on gorilla glass!

------
phlux
>Other outlets, such as many supermarkets, may be unwilling to stock the
products because they make enormous profits from cleaning products that need
to be replaced regularly, and liquid glass would make virtually all of them
obsolete.

I dont get it, I ahve a glass sink and counter in my bathroom at home. I still
have to clean them.

Every mirror I have ever had has been glass - I still windex them.

All my drinks at home are served to me in nothing but the finest crystal - I
still have my help clean them.

etc....

------
markdionne
Imagine that regular glass had not yet been invented, and someone came up with
it today. I suppose people here would be questioning its safety.

~~~
JabavuAdams
1) There's a long list of materials that are no problem outside your body but
that are really bad for you when small pieces get inside your lungs.

2) There's a higher potential harm from new processes and materials that are
used everywhere by consumers, versus being used by specialists in exposure-
controlled environments.

Because of (1) and (2), if there's anything wrong with this material, the harm
will be multiplied.

For example a possibly toxic material used in low-rate specialty manufacturing
by protected workers is different from a possibly toxic material that's
distributed in fun inhalers inside of cereal boxes.

These concerns are not at all irrational, and are in fact more empirical than
reflexive anti-questioning snarkery.

