

Any desktop app based startups? - ct

Seems a large majority are doing web based startups.  Is anyone writing a desktop app as their MVP, etc?  My background has been mainly writing "enterprisy" Microsoft based (yes I know) back-end office desktop applications in Windows using C#, WinForms, WPF, and in the past C++/MFC.<p>Just seeing what's out there as I'd be interested in joining a startup that is writing a thick client app even if it's not a true desktop runtime like Silverlight.  And even if you're not looking for anyone I'd be interested in hearing about your startup (as probably other "desktop app dev" lurkers are perhaps interested as well).<p>And although I could try to learn web dev I feel I could better leverage my existing skills as there could be an untapped market/niche in the world of desktop apps that web apps currently can't deliver that could be filled while everyone else is focused on the next Web X.0 app (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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maguay
If you're the least bit interested in writing new consumer apps for Windows,
please do it! There's an incredible lack of new, interesting, exciting apps
for Windows. Enough to make one want to switch to a Mac (plus a hundred other
reasons...)

~~~
mattgreenrocks
I'm stereotyping a great deal here, but it feels like Windows users with a bit
of expertise inevitably:

1\. don't appreciate nice software (it's a rare thing, most programs are
considered good if they don't have malware in them)

2\. don't pay for software because they're 'smart' enough to use BT

3\. don't care a lick about decent UIs because there's inevitably a free/open
source program with that skates by on virtue of being free

The OS, as of Windows 7, is damn nice (though the terminal is terrible). The
UI of the apps is almost universally bad -- most apps disregard the system UI
theme for absolutely no gain, and they end up looking garish. Many apps that
target the 'power user' demographic fall into a pit of endless customization,
which presumes that users _want_ to tweak their software using components
written by random people on the Internet. It's as if no app on Windows is
content to just do its thing, it always has to be striving to do more in a
thoroughly mediocre fashion.

~~~
gvnonor
Your points are valid, but I think the percentage of inexperienced Windows
users far outnumbers the users with 'expertise'. Those type of people

1\. Do appreciate applications that "just work" and are willing to spend time
choosing the right apps that suits them.

2\. Haven't learnt of BT yet or even if they have, they're willing to pay to
save the hassle of checking for viruses, trojans etc.

3\. Do appreciate user friendly applications, they'll choose a better looking
application with lesser features over a featureful app with bad UI.

Going after this crowd can be lucrative indeed, just ask patio11 ;)

~~~
mattgreenrocks
Yeah, it just seems like it is hard to write an app that less-experienced
users will both appreciate and use...much less pay for. After all, they may
think MSN Messenger feels like it was written for twelve year-olds, but do
they care enough to switch? Do they even know how to look for a replacement?
(IM might be a bad example as nobody wants to pay for a client on any
platform, it seems.)

OS X appears to simply have more of a tradition of independently-written,
beautiful software.

~~~
gvnonor
Well, in most cases they want a real good reason to switch and the software
must market itself as a replacement. Case in point Firefox and Chrome gained a
lot IE6 users by

1.Having multiple tabs which is the killer feature

2.Marketing themselves as a secure and less-crashy alternative.

This might seem like an unfair example(not everyone has Google's or Mozilla's
muscle) but the basics are the same for any type of software and given
sufficient effort and planning, they can compete in competitive markets with
established players.

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pavlov
Dropbox and Spotify come to mind as high-profile startups whose product
depends entirely on the capabilities afforded by being on the desktop vs. just
doing a web app.

~~~
aristidb
Dropbox is mixed web and desktop, as a large part of its functionality is
exposed (only) through the web interface. Its desktop parts are probably born
more out of necessity than desire: a web app simply cannot "sync a folder".

~~~
PostOnce
I have never once used Dropbox's web interface (I haven't even bothered to
look at it). What part of the functionality is missing from the desktop
application? The only functionality I need or use is dropping files into the
Dropbox folder and knowing they're not going to be destroyed if a hard drive
fails or the house burns down.

~~~
bosie
restoring a deleted file and versioning comes to mind, if i am not mistaken?

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dgallagher
I'm currently working on a hybrid app that's a desktop app and web app. The
desktop code is mostly done, and the web code is coming along nicely. It's
very interesting working on both sides of the equation; both have their
challenges. While I'm still keeping the idea close to my chest, it's an
untapped market which could potentially be very big.

I think there are plenty of opportunities on the desktop-side of things;
millions of computers are sold every month. While we may be entering the long-
tail of dedicated computer sales, being replaced by iPads and other
specialized devices eventually, it's going to take a while for that switch to
fully happen. At least 5 if not 10 years or more; the keyboard/mouse interface
still rules for content creation, and many people spend their days sitting in
front of one.

However, it's becoming very difficult to release a desktop-only application
without some sort of web component. Everything from note taking software, to
video games, to music software, is all expected to be connected online
somehow.

I'd imagine a sticking point for some corporate software is security. Most
companies are not comfortable having their data stored on someone else's
servers, potentially unencrypted. Some even have special agreements with
governments and businesses preventing them from doing so. A lot of these
companies are being left out of the cloud.

Two possible solutions include providing server software for IT departments to
deploy (been there, done that, it's not pretty or cheap), or to have some sort
of encrypted solution syncing to the cloud. The trick is, data must be fully
and securely encrypted "before" going to the cloud. If someone breaks into the
cloud provider's storage, or intercepts the data in-transit, they must get
gibberish. The cloud provider can't read the data either; only the business.
Just an idea to think about. :)

~~~
lovskogen
When will this app see the light of day?

~~~
dgallagher
Definitely by the end of the year, if not sooner. I'm getting close to having
a full functioning beta (likely in 3-4 months), and will likely do a private
launch with some testers shortly after.

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domador
How large and economically-successful a startup are you interested in?

I'm bootstrapping a native-client-software-based business. My business isn't
successful yet, but we'll see how things play out in the next couple of years.
I'm hoping that though web-based apps are all the rage, there still exists a
large-enough market for desktop software. My economic goals are modest (though
a wildly-successful outcome wouldn't be unwelcome).

For several years I've kept up with many, very-helpful startup-related blogs
and sites. The vast majority of these recommend launching web-app-based
startups. Even one startup owner who had hybrid approach phased out his
desktop version ([http://www.kalzumeus.com/2009/09/05/desktop-aps-versus-
web-a...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2009/09/05/desktop-aps-versus-web-apps/))
So why am I developing desktop apps? The main reason is that I care
passionately about user interfaces and the effect they have on my experience
as a user. There doesn't seem to be a very consistent UI for the Web as a
platform, not as consistent a UI as exists for Windows, Mac OS or GNU/Linux
distributions. Web apps have their advantages, but UI-consistency isn't their
strong suit (nor do I foresee this changing very soon).

A second reason for my focus on desktop apps is that I want to scratch my own
itch and make programs that I want to use myself. I want to write high-quality
software that 1) aids me with tasks related to various personal interests and
2) is desktop software, if possible. I want to exclusively produce "dogfood"
(though not necessarily programmer tools). Having myself as a target user
fuels my motivation to get up and work hard on making a streamlined, powerful,
easy-to-use product, since I'll be using it. Yes, I'll still perform usability
testing and try to understand my other target users. However, I believe it can
be helpful to be a target user myself. I can't imagine how hard it must be to
develop software for an unfamiliar field or making a program whose only value
to me is as a source of income. (By the way, having oneself as a target user
is generally considered by startup bloggers to be a mistake.)

A third reason for my desktop-app obsession lies in the opportunities I see to
leverage the advantages of native client applications. Various articles lists
the advantages of web apps. However, desktop apps have their own particular
advantages, though many desktop applications fail to leverage them. I plan to
keep identifying these advantages and capitalizing on them. At the same time,
there's a lot for client apps to learn from web apps (and I hope to
internalize those lessons as well).

As you can see, I'm a bit of a contrarian and somewhat stubborn about this
particular issue. It may turn out to be my undoing. (I hope otherwise, of
course.) Check up on me in a year or two... In the meantime, be careful about
any advice you may draw from what I just wrote.

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futureproof
Check out my startup, Futureproof: <http://iamfutureproof.com>

Our goal is to build a large collection of small software products, including
a mix of desktop and web apps, that help people form sophisticated
relationships with technology. We also want to build "hardware" to support
people in making healthy changes to technology habits.

Our first product, Awareness, is a C# app for Mac and Windows, already
distributed through the App Store.

I'm actually looking to bring another programmer onboard, so send us your
resume!

~~~
lubos
C# app for Mac? Is it through Mono framework or something else?

~~~
futureproof
Yes, it uses Mono with MonoMac (<http://www.mono-project.com/MonoMac>). We
built a platform-independent core library and application controller, then
simple Windows.Forms and Cocoa views to support Windows and Mac OS.

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orls
Tower ( <http://www.git-tower.com/> ) is a commercial Git GUI for Mac OSX
that, by all accounts, is pretty excellent; don't know much about the team,
but I believe it's their first product and doing OK.

I think you'll find more desktop-app-focused startups in Apple-land, largely
thanks to the impetus to Obj-C & Cocoa programming that the iPhone has given.

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csomar
Not sure if you'd consider them a start-up or not (<http://www.skybound.ca/>),
but they have a pretty cool and fancy product. A few weeks ago, I read they
are looking for solid dot net developers. You could check out. They are based
in Canada.

~~~
eps
<http://yaletownsoftwaredesign.com> is also Canada-based and writes some neat
stuff for Windows. Not sure if they are hiring though.

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asmithmd1
What kind of enterprise app is better as a desktop app? Other than working if
the Internet is down, what are the advantages of desktop over web?

~~~
gregschlom
There are things that are better done on the desktop. Take Spotify, for
example. One of the key to their success is the fact that they keep bandwith
costs low by using peer to peer technology.

I've done some research, and found that on average, 80% of the music I listen
to on Spotify was coming from peers rather than from Spotify's servers. If I'm
anything like an average user, that means that Spotify may be cutting its
bandwith costs by something like 80%. That would be impossible to do as a web
app, and web-based competitors face huge streaming costs indeed.

~~~
falsestprophet
Flash has a built in p2p facility

<http://www.flashrealtime.com/basics-of-p2p-in-flash/>

~~~
gregschlom
So does Java :)

But seriously, I don't think Spotify could be the great app it is if it were a
flash app. Can you imagine yourself running a tab in your browser with an app
like Spotify inside and your fans running full-speed on?

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tomh-
It might not be considered a startup (anymore) but maybe Sofa
(<http://madebysofa.com>)

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mashmac2
Ninite <http://ninite.com> (YC W08 too!)

------
ttruett
My friends and I are currently working on our first product retickr right now.
Our Mac client will launch this summer and we are hoping to bring a Windows
client to market this fall. Initially retickr will be "another" news
aggregator but we are working closely with businesses and niche users to
provide a tailored solution. <http://www.retickr.com>

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JCB_K
Wunderlist, Hype, Spotify, Sparrow. Just a quick list of desktop apps. But I
agree, most startups are focussing on the web (and rightly so.)

~~~
mofle
The Wunderlist desktop app is also web-based. It's using Titanium Desktop as a
wrapper.

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jawngee
Not really a start up per se, though I am working on it full time:

<http://shavevideo.com/>

Just got a great review in MacLife:

<http://www.maclife.com/article/reviews/shave_video_review>

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nprincigalli
DeskMetrics (<http://deskmetrics.com/>,
<http://www.crunchbase.com/company/deskmetrics>) comes to mind, they're doing
analytics on the desktop.

(I've got no relationship with them)

~~~
HerberthAmaral
Thanks for mentioning us. Just noticing: we are a "hibryd" startup: we have a
focus on Desktop market, but we have to pay attention on the "Web side of the
force" too. :-)

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pkamb
Sometimes you have to stay on the desktop out of necessity. Can't intercept
low-level keyboard events or manipulate the file system, for example, from the
web.

Not a 'startup' per say but I'm in that boat. If I wrote this as a web app, it
would work only on my website. As a desktop app it works in every open text-
field, regardless of the program. <http://onehandkeyboard.org>

Also check out the the Business of Software forum, lots of desktop based app
developers there. <http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz>

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AshleysBrain
HTML5 game creator with C++/MFC desktop editor application:
[http://www.scirra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8468](http://www.scirra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8468)

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benatkin
Evernote's Desktop App is a pretty big part of their product. Here's their
open source page which reveals some of their technology choices:

<http://www.evernote.com/about/opensource/>

I think they got the Webkit license wrong. Just like the LibXML License, it
says:

> Copyright (C) 1998-2003 Daniel Veillard. All Rights Reserved.

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wnm106
We're building our MVP in wpf, with the intent of supporting silverlight at
some point. Being B2B, we think its less of an issue than a B2C company. Our
platform requires access to local databases, which isn't possible directly
through a web app. Wpf and silverlight give us the ability for an enriched
user experience while still being able to support web distribution through
xbap and xap.

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CrazyRobot
Soluto is (<http://www.soluto.com/>). They won TC Disrupt last year.

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SeoxyS
The only real desktop "Startup" in recent times is doubleTwist. Most other are
either client for a web service, or more of a lifestyle business than a
startup.

On a sidenote: That doesn't really count either, but MacHeist has done
fantastically well selling Mac desktop software in bundles online.

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jimbobimbo
It's not about the platform, it's about the idea which implementation other
people will be willing to buy.

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sktrdie
<http://udeployer.com/> here :). I'm trying to fix Windows software deployment
by providing an apt-get like tool for IT agencies but more targeted to
deploying to multiple remote computers instead of only your local machine.

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yesimahuman
Xobni is an option though I wouldn't consider them a startup anymore.

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jirinovotny
We do WinForms apps in .NET over here at www.dextronet.com and .NET
components, namely Better ListView, written in C#, at www.componentowl.com

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petervandijck
Some startups have a desktop component (Yammer), and it's often not very good.

~~~
ldayley
Yammer's desktop client sucks. Perhaps it is because writing for the desktop
is considered so passe that the art is dying among younger devs.

~~~
yesimahuman
Yammer's desktop client is written in Adobe AIR which is the normal web stack.
It runs in an embedded WebKit browser.

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clfsoft
try [http://www.appcelerator.com/products/titanium-desktop-
applic...](http://www.appcelerator.com/products/titanium-desktop-application-
development/)

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khookie
Evernote

