
11% of Americans don’t use the internet - kdazzle
https://thehustle.co/meet-the-11-of-americans-who-dont-use-the-internet/
======
ezequiel-garzon
It’s reasonable to assume that 11% of the adult US population is still
illiterate [1]. I know this is not unique to the US, and that these people may
very well be as happy as anyone else. Still, if we sometimes point out that HN
is a bit of a bubble, well there’s a big bubble I can’t wrap my mind around
well into the 21st century! I would certainly be surprised if an illiterate
person made heavy use of the Internet (though I’m sure there are edge cases,
as always).

[1]
[https://nces.ed.gov/naal/kf_demographics.asp](https://nces.ed.gov/naal/kf_demographics.asp)

~~~
pnloyd
A lot of jobs now have internet only application processes.

~~~
DavidAdams
This is just one of many reasons why public libraries are so important. It's a
major part of the mandate for modern libraries and librarians to offer a place
where people with low incomes, low educational attainment, low tech literacy,
and even plain old low literacy can get some help navigating occasional
requirements like an online job application or trying to enroll in some kind
of assistance program.

~~~
Rjevski
More than libraries, I wish there would be _really_ affordable computers.

We’ve already proven it’s technically possible, with Raspberry Pis and cheap
Android phones. Now I wish we would stop cramming bloat and shit (like useless
JavaScript and ads) into our websites and operating systems so those low-end
machines actually remain usable and productive.

Internet access should also be a right - not high speed 100+Mbps, but basic
1Mbps or so. The unused cell network capacity should be given away for free so
that less fortunate people can still get online.

~~~
jlmorton
You can get a Samsung Chromebook for $75. The FCC operates the Lifeline
program, which provides subsidized Internet access to low-income Americans,
but the program was gutted about three months ago, dropping about 70% of
enrollees.

~~~
Fnoord
There's also a second hand surplus of old technology. They may have wear &
tear and other disadvantages though compared to today's standards: slower CPU,
slower IO, less RAM, HDD instead of SSD, dead pixels, (half) dead batteries
just to mention a few but hey its an option.

------
simmons
My Dad is in his early 70's and has never used the Internet. In fact, he never
even had a cellphone until this year when I bought him a flip-phone and
convinced him to accept it. I think he's plenty capable of learning such
technology, he just doesn't see any compelling reason. And I think that's a
perfectly reasonable choice -- I'm certainly not going to tell a senior
citizen what they need to be happy.

He is starting to run into some practical problems. For example, the local
library apparently stopped stocking all the paper IRS forms.

~~~
cm2187
What is interesting is that it seems to have more to do with age than
intellectual capacity. I know very smart 60yo+ doctors with a lifetime of
scientific achievements, who understands concepts way more complicated than
the IP protocol or a browser, and who just refuse to learn it. They might
learn just how to use it but have no curiosity on how it works.

~~~
reaperducer
_I know very smart 60yo+ doctors with a lifetime of scientific achievements,
who understands concepts way more complicated than the IP protocol or a
browser, and who just refuse to learn it._

I know a woman who until recently worked as a secretary to one of the
presidents of a large regional bank. The first thing she did each morning was
to print out the president's e-mails, and bring them to him on paper. He would
then dictate his responses and she would send the e-mail responses for him.

The job paid big bucks for several reasons:

\- She knows how to take fast, accurate dictation with steno. They don't teach
that anywhere anymore.

\- She knows how to file. Real paper files.

\- She would place his phone calls for him, old-fashioned style. He would say,
"I need to talk to Mr. X," and a in a couple of minutes she'd be on the phone:
"Is this Mr. X? Please hold for bank president Y."

\- She dressed the part; coming to work in a proper business suit and
briefcase each day, not carrying a backpack like a sixth-grader.

\- She didn't mind making coffee for the boss. It's a hate crime to even ask
these days, but she did it happily.

That bank president must have a very low stress level, since he only had to
see his paper e-mail once a day.

~~~
dev_north_east
> \- She dressed the part; coming to work in a proper business suit and
> briefcase each day, not carrying a backpack like a sixth-grader.

This is something I've been thinking more and more about lately. I used to be
happy with the lax attitude most tech places have to attire but honestly I
look around my office now and I wish we had a bit more of a dress standard. I
was a tshirt and hoodie fiend but changed to slacks/smart jeans and a shirt
recently. I've been on the end of so many barbs and jokes from coworkers over
this (which I take in good humour). Interestingly I've found that I'm being
taken more seriously by our management side/CTO etc. I have no interest in
moving over there by the way, I'll be coding til I retire.

I'm going to be asked why we should change and what's wrong with the casual
approach. I think if as a profession we want to be taken seriously, we need to
start looking the part. Sure a lawyer could rock up into court wearing shorts
and a faded 1980s Man Utd jersey and still do a good job, but honestly what
would you actually think of him? What is actually wrong with looking smart?

~~~
Bromskloss
Right! Workplaces seem to advertise to, for example, computer people how they
are relaxed and that you can come to work in jeans. I just want to get to wear
a suit for once, for the enjoyment of myself and others!

~~~
daemin
We had Classy (Client* Team) Mondays at a previous job of mine. The whole
larger group would come in dressed up in suits and business appropriate
dresses, then have some nibbles and drinks afterwards.

Pretty much a reverse of a casual Friday.

* Client in the client-server computing sense.

~~~
RugnirViking
Monday is a good day for that as well - gives you time to panic-prepare/iron
on sunday evening :)

------
pixelmonkey
This is a shockingly _small_ number. For comparison, Pew reports that 24% of
Americans have not read a single book, in whole or in part, in 2017.

[http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/23/who-
doesnt-r...](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/23/who-doesnt-read-
books-in-america/)

~~~
guildenstern
What’s the connection between reading books and the internet, aside from
literacy? They’re such different things, I’m not clear on the connection
between reading and the internet.

~~~
pixelmonkey
> I’m not clear on the connection between reading and the internet.

Prior to the internet, books were the only way humans consumed large amounts
of textual information. Now, we have web pages, which 89% of people use,
whereas books, which have never been more accessible, still linger at 76%
usage.

One assumes of the 89% of people who use the Internet, 100% of them use web
browsers, web sites, and thus read lots of textual information. That's as
close to 100% penetration for a technology as you're gonna get, in my view. I
wonder what percentage of Americans use toothbrushes!

I suppose there might be some subset of Internet users who exclusively use
YouTube/Netflix (children, maybe?) That would be the only wrinkle in the
comparison, IMO.

~~~
icebraining
_and thus read lots of textual information._

I don't think that follows. If you use Instagram, YouTube, Imgur, 9GAG, and
such, you barely need to read any text. Same for Facebook, depending on the
people you follow.

------
LaikaF
My Grandfather is one of those 11%. However I suspect he's a bit different
from the others. Up until the late 90s he was programming Fortran and COBOL.
He started during the Korean War or just after I believe. Towards the end he
was mostly doing contract work as one of the few people who could still work
on them. But after he retired technology stopped for him. The latest
innovation he'll use is a DVD player. The only reason he doesn't have a tube
TV is it died five years ago and we got him a flat screen.

To be fair he may never have gotten used to using a GUI on a PC or the
internet at large. But still, it's my grandmother who runs their email account
and shared cellphone.

~~~
reaperducer
I think your grandfather and I are kindred spirits.

When I retire, I don't plan to ever use a computer again if I don't have to.
There's nothing on the internet that can compete with the fulfillment
available from my wife, my dog, and my actual real life friends.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I'll keep the computer but I'm planning to disconnect from the internet once I
retire.

~~~
Bromskloss
For what tasks do you intend to use the computer?

~~~
reaperducer
Everything that computers were used for before the internet?

~~~
Bromskloss
Yeah, what was that, really? Typing QBASIC programs from paper into the
computer? Using it as a fancy typewriter? Calculating ballistic trajectories?
That's all I can remember.

~~~
reaperducer
I'd write an enormous list here, but it's probably easier and more educational
for you to go to archive.org and look at the software ads in pretty much any
issue of Byte magazine before 1990.

~~~
Bromskloss
We can also ask what we use the computer for now, for which we don't need the
Internet.

------
magduf
Old people can use the internet just fine if they want to; my 80-year-old
mother happily uses it to buy all kinds of stuff, to pay her bills, to keep up
with family on Facebook, etc.

~~~
neverartful
Probably depends on the person. My 79-year-old father has early stages of
Alzheimer's/dementia and can't remember the names of his grandkids. I would
say that he can't use the internet just fine - even if he wants to.

~~~
trumped
at that point, he probably should be considered internet-disabled (among other
things)... as an analogy, would you expect a paraplegic to swim with it's own
body? sorry, but that's reality...

~~~
holygrail111
African paraplegic or Mexican? Pink Floyd wants to know (they bankrolled monty
python and the holy grail.)

------
Kadin
It's more impressive when you turn this number around: 89% of Americans "use
the Internet", up from just over 50% less than 20 years ago.

That is an insane adoption curve for a network that basically didn't exist --
at least not in an approachable, mainstream way -- within the current memory
of many of its users.

That's faster than the update rate of either the telephone or electricity or
indoor plumbing. (Arguably fair I suppose, since those things all require more
infrastructure than the Internet does, which if needed can run over existing
telephone infrastructure, and did for a long time.)

And of the people who aren't using the Internet, the plurality (according to
the article) are declining to use it by their own decision -- "just not
interested" \-- not because they can't afford to get online, or don't know how
to, or some other externally-imposed hurdle. Which is their prerogative; if
people aren't online, I'd hope it's by their own choice and not through
inability (the same as not reading books -- if someone isn't reading books
regularly, one hopes it's because they're not interested, not because they're
illiterate).

------
walrus01
Makes me wonder if when we are 80 years old, we'll be organizing retro LAN
parties to play Unreal Tournament (1999 release) in our retirement homes.

~~~
getoffmyLAN
I stopped LAN'ing way before that; and I'm from the early 80s. (80's of christ
not of age.) Let's play something older. I stopped playing way before Unreal.

~~~
mmt
Indeed, I remember when PhoneNet made ad-hoc AppleTalk networks a bit easier
(although, by then, the LocalTalk hardware, genuine and clone, was common
enough, too, except sometimes long enough cables could still be a rarity).

------
RaceWon
I'm not a hacker. I got my first PC in '88 (a 286 with a 20mb HD) because for
sure it was going to be the thing in a few short years. I was 28 and wanted to
use it for my business... the NIGHTMARE of trying to; load software, hookup a
printer, get the modem to work and so and so was just unbelievable. I
persisted though, in fact when Windows was seriously starting to dominate-I
even refused to use for a damn long time. Anyway, my point is I bet more than
a few of those 11 percenters are peeps my age who just never got comfortable
at the command screen.

------
jonstaab
I was a little disappointed not to read anything about conscientious
objectors, having just read Wendell Berry's 1987 article "Why I am NOT going
to buy a computer" [0]. Idealistic as he is, Berry's work appeals very
strongly to me. But maybe there isn't anyone like that anymore.

[0]
[http://home.btconnect.com/tipiglen/berrynot.html](http://home.btconnect.com/tipiglen/berrynot.html)

------
Fnoord
When I read an article like this I'm reminded that Pamela Jones (PJ) [1] of
Groklaw [2] -specifically, her last Groklaw article [3]- might be one of them.

Quoting from the last article:

"The owner of Lavabit tells us that he's stopped using email and if we knew
what he knew, we'd stop too.

[...]

Oddly, if everyone did that, leap off the Internet, the world's economy would
collapse, I suppose. I can't really hope for that. But for me, the Internet is
over.

[...]"

My point isn't that a significant percentage of the 11% consciously don't use
the Internet for similar reasons. I don't know how significant such as
percentage would be. My point is that there are people around who consciously
do not use the Internet (at all) for privacy/security reasons. The Internet
isn't a panacea.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Jones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Jones)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groklaw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groklaw)

[3]
[http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130818120421175](http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130818120421175)

------
IIAOPSW
It blew my mind when I visited my grandmother recently.

There's a computer in the household. My grandfather used it avidly since the
days of dialup. He didn't give up the dialup connection until well into the
2010s. I'm not sure if he still uses it. My grandmother was never interested
in it.

My grandmother still certainly has her wits about her. She does NOT fit the
mold of someone un-skeptical or easily swayed due to senility. Yet like many
older people she voted for Trump despite voting Democrat in the past and
living in a very blue area. This of course is very curious to me.

Eventually my conversation with my grandmother went to the topic of news
media. I had mentioned that I do not like the way news reports anecdotes and
not data and paints a misleading picture. I mentioned a few of my favorite
sources which eschew this trend (fivethirtyeight, the economist etc).

My grandmother replies that she knows full well the news is garbage. The thing
is to my grandmother the news is whatever she can buy at the corner news
stand. Her options are the New York Post or the Daily News. She has considered
maybe spending the extra money to buy the New York Times.

Coming from a world where news comes in an infinite stream from infinite
sources straight into my pocket 24/7, it completely blew my mind that news for
her comes from 2 sources and only once a day and both are owned by Murdoch. I
am used to a world where debates can abruptly end with "lets look it up". In
the world of my grandmother, remembering a few stories from the papers and
friends is the only reasonable basis to form an opinion on anything.

Maybe we've overvalued the importance of fake news on the internet.

~~~
oh_sigh
Presumably your grandmother has had the same news options for the past... many
years, and was subject to the same pressures. Are you just thinking about this
now because she voted against your wishes?

~~~
IIAOPSW
My grandmothers news options didn't manifest in any unexpected way in the
past. Nothing to do with my wishes.

------
Dowwie
I just got back from a camping trip in the White mountains region of New
Hampshire. Neighboring cities strike me as those where high tech lifestyles
aren't needed nor preferred. Locals congregate in the early morning where
breakfasts are served. No one looks at a phone once. People seem to enjoy the
company of those in reality over those of their online social network.

I see why this lifestyle is alluring.

------
aacook
I left a comment about this on HN the other day
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17562306](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17562306))
- 8 months ago, I launched a product to serve the older population, blending
old and new, called NanaGram ([https://nanagram.co](https://nanagram.co)). We
let you send printed photos to a loved one in the mail with just a text
message.

Older people like my late grandfather are some of the happiest I've ever met.
I think one of their secrets is growing up in a more disconnected world. I've
honed my ability to stay off the internet for long periods of time but this
skill is just the default state for many older people and isn't a challenge
they face. I didn't always struggle with internet addiction and remember life
before and after the internet. Some of my most joyful moments in the past year
have been visiting loved ones just after spending 2 or 3 days completely
disconnected.

There's a great book called Happiness is a Choice You Make about the "oldest
old", people over the age of 85. I touched on in the book in this blog entry
and expanded on some of the lessons I learned hanging out with my 94-year-old
grandfather as often as possible over the last couple years:
[https://nanagram.co/blog/on-happiness-from-tirrell-
cook](https://nanagram.co/blog/on-happiness-from-tirrell-cook).

My grandfather never learned how to internet but we did have a hilarious
unboxing moment with the Amazon Echo this past December. He made it to a viral
TV show and tried to negotiate for bitcoin as compensation. While it was very
promising, we never truly got his Echo habit to stick as he and my grandmother
kept pressing the wrong buttons. [https://nanagram.co/blog/echo-show-
unboxing](https://nanagram.co/blog/echo-show-unboxing)

------
NeedMoreTea
I wonder will the internet have matured (jumped the shark with excess
commercialism, JS, ads etc) to the extent TV has that people start cord
cutting the net.

Anecdotally the novelty is starting to wear thin with more than a few people I
know who barely use anything beyond a chat service and a little shopping
(probably at Amazon).

~~~
azernik
People didn't start cutting the TV cord because of commercialism or ads or
really anything about TV in particular; they cut because there was a
substitute. Until there's another option as good for that chat and shopping,
they'll keep their internet connection (even if only a cellular one).

~~~
NeedMoreTea
I don't think that's completely true.

There was a choice between streaming services with no ads and TV with ever
longer ad breaks and cheaper programming. Dissatisfaction with TV made the
choice easy. No ads was a big selling point for Netflix.

------
_bxg1
I wish all three perspectives had been more like the last one; the first two
were pretty much just the stereotype of old people who don't like the internet
because it's too newfangled. It's more interesting to learn about factors that
limit people who otherwise might use it.

------
Koshkin
I wish I _could be_ one of them.

~~~
aacook
You can, at least for a few hours a day, or even for multi-day streaks. Your
friends might think you're weird at first but they'll get over it.

------
lucideer
"don't use the internet" is a vague qualifier.

My father has a Gmail and a Facebook account, both of which he signed up for
himself. He last signed into the latter no less than 5 years ago. He interacts
with his email account by calling myself or my siblings and asking them to
check it for him. A few times a year.

Sometime a year or two ago he borrowed my brother's computer and went online
to do some research into something he wanted to buy online; no assistance
required so he's not computer illiterate. He just has absolutely zero day-to-
day need for them.

11% seems very very low.

------
SlowRobotAhead
I kinda wish we could pump those numbers up, esp for children on the internet.
Thinking back to the 80s and 90s growing up, it sure seems like people were
happier. But what do I know!?

~~~
thatswrong0
I feel like this is the same thing they said about tv, before that radio,
before that..

~~~
NeedMoreTea
I don't remember it ever being said about radio. TV certainly, but mainly it
became a common theme after the arrival of Sky in UK. Now the kids had 13
channels of shit on the TV to choose from, and even dedicated channels for
effortless excess consumption.

For the early part of our kid's lives there was only an hour or two of kids TV
a day - between end of school and around 5:30pm in time for the evening news.
Limiting consumption was far easier.

Course there'd still be opportunity to watch soaps etc with parents

~~~
soared
Are you 70 years old? Radio was at the same stage as the internet in the 50s
and 60s.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Grew up with kids TV in the 70s and 80s thanks :p

I have never once heard anyone criticise radio consumption that I can
remember. Walkmans in the 80s, yes; games, yes; TV, definitely as mentioned.
All of those have cropped up in the news more than a few times while they were
topical.

Maybe UK radio got a different reaction to the US?

~~~
jdietrich
_> I have never once heard anyone criticise radio consumption that I can
remember._

You're far too young to remember. There were two distinct moral panics about
radio; the first in the 1930s when radio first became popular in the home, and
the second in the early 1960s when transistorisation allowed teenagers to have
radios of their own.

Until 1967, the BBC did not have a pop music station. Until 1973, commercial
radio was illegal. The pirates who filled the demand for pop radio in the
interim were hugely controversial. A great many column inches were spent
fretting over the corrupting influence of foreign broadcasters, beaming
salacious rock and roll music into the bedrooms of British children.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Fair enough.

Of course I also remember the huge moral panic over us all going to hell for
playing rock records backwards for satanistic messages. We all tried, and
failed, to find one of course after hearing of this. :)

I'm rather surprised about the 1930s - early British radio was so worthy and
busy and educating the populace. I'm surprised there was much scope left for
panic.

------
ksec
And nearly 55% of Chinese don't use Internet.

Yes, that is nearly 800M still without Smartphone or Internet. There is going
to be a very long tail, likely 10 years plus to bring the last 500 to 600M
online. The rest are likely not going to be online in their life time or has
no interest in doing so.

Out of the 7.4 Billion people on earth, there is 5B Mobile Phone users, 3.5
Smartphone users. So it will likely take another twenty years before we reach
6 Billion Smartphone users.

------
nishantvyas
Diffusion of Innovation always has "Laggard" All of us have been in different
part of spectrum for various innovations... when the innovation/trend is
irreversible, everyone eventually converts.... remember rotary phones, VCRs
etc

refer:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations)

------
azujus
Do we need another type of operating system interface to solve this? Something
simpler, like TV or Minitel?

It would seem that Apps have helped to bring the last 20% of Americans online,
would we need something even simpler to bring the rest onboard?

------
agumonkey
My 96 yo neighbors use internet, without too much hassle. Just like most
people they don't understand it, but they use games, search, chat .. funny.

------
mxyxpt1k
My 90 year old father-in-law has never used a computer or the Internet
directly, but my wife buys from Amazon and searches Google for him.

------
Nick9075
I have social anxiety. I only use the interact when interacting with people
outside of work or in a business professional setting.

------
Bromskloss
That's pretty cool. I think we need a reminder that the Internet isn't a
prerequisite for life. :-)

------
rblion
My mom, aunt, and grandma are among them.

------
beenBoutIT
Bernie Sanders needs to add this sad statistic to his spiel about how America
isn't doing well. It fits in perfectly between "We have more people in jail
than any other country on Earth" and "Only major country that doesn't
guarantee right to health care".

------
guard0g
I wonder how many members of Congress fall into this category...

------
sandov
I would like to know what portion use the Internet for whorthwhile activities
and what portion uses it only for browsing Facebook and Twitter.

~~~
jedberg
I find it interesting that you consider those activities not worthwhile. I'm
sure you use the internet for things that are "less worthwhile" than those
things, at least to me. But that's what it's really all about anyway right?
Different things have different value to different people.

------
coldtea
What's worse is that 99% of Americans, or rather the global population,
(including businesses) use it for BS.

------
Senderman
89% of Americans use the internet.

------
KamiCrit
At home I'm very proud of my triple monitor setup and second iteration of my
hand assembled computer. The setup is built with ease of use in mind. To
lazily chat with friends, unwind, and keep up with bleeding edge news.

When I leave my little tech temple, my mobile computer of choice is a flip
phone. A substitute calculator and unit converter.

With no GPS it's great reading the land and people in it. Very occasionally
I'll cheat and bum around in front of a cafe and use the tablet to find a spot
but most plans are made at home on a printed map.

As stated in other articles here, it's great not having a slab fight for your
attention with bleeps and red notifications while out on adventure.

TL;DR / Long story short: Be the friend at the restaurant conversing, not on
the glass slab.

------
readhn
i saw a Dad the other day on a playground with his kid. The Dad stood there
staring at his phone the entire time while "playing" with his kid.

Kinda sad to see this...

~~~
smokey_the_bear
I see this complaint about parents a lot. I interact with my kids all day. We
cook dinner together, we play playdoh, I read to them endlessly. And I'll bike
them to the park, and then I sit there and play with my phone while they run
around.

I do not find it fun to climb on kids playgrounds. I don't enjoy helping my
son across the monkey bars, and he makes more progress at it when I don't.

Parenting can be mentally and physically exhausting, and it's really not fair
or at all useful to judge a parent based on a glimpse of 5 minutes of their
day.

------
dijit
Certain parts of my family do not operate on the same timescale as me wrt
tech. It's not just a generational divide in my families case.

To me, tech is all-emcompassing, I follow new developments as if it's second
nature. To the more tech literate of my family they see the stuff that comes
out as usually unnecessary in most cases but upgrade to have the new hotness
every second major cycle (iphone 4->6 for example).

For the final part of my family, they operate on a different time scale
altogether. For them a computer is a computer, they don't really "get old"
unless they break. It's difficult to tell them (when they have been told to
use the internet for some system of government) and you need to explain to
them that their computer from 1995 can't use the internet in the modern day.

To them, they have a computer, a working computer, it cost a lot of money. The
vacuum cleaner they had for 25 years works, the TV too, why can't they use the
thing that cost significantly more than that. (my grandparents ironically have
that compaq PC that says it's future-proof on the front).

For them to get back into technology it needs to be a form-factor change (IE;
Desktop->Tablet) which was how they started to use the internet.

Anyway, that's my anecdotal story.

~~~
mindcrime
It's really not an age/generation thing at all. There are plenty of
millennials who know shit about computers, while there are "old farts" like
Bill Joy, Brian Kernighan, James Gosling, Rob Pike, Patrick Winston, Gerald
Sussman, Bjarne Stroupstrup, etc. who know more about computing than most of
us will ever know, and are more comfortable with technology than most kids out
there today.

I think it's always been the case, and probably always will be the case, that
some people intuitively embrace / grok technology, and some don't. Stereotypes
aside, I haven't found that age has much to do with it.

~~~
dijit
> It's really not an age/generation thing at all.

You're right, that's why I clarified that originally.

