
Google to Launch Major New Social Network Called Circles, Possibly Today - Anon84
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_to_launch_major_new_social_network_called_c.php
======
rriepe
Fail, fail, fail until you succeed; I really like Google's resolve when it
comes to breaking into social networking. I guess I also like any serious
challenge to Facebook.

Can't wait for the details.

~~~
dave1619
Don't know if Google really gets social. You really need an addictive core
product that people are dying to spend hours and hours on. Can Google really
make a social networking product that goes viral with teens and college
students (and then others)? I wouldn't bet on Google developing a social hit
internally. I think their best bet might be acquisition of something that's
already taking off, like FourSquare of Instagram. They can then iterate from
there and try to take on Facebook from another angle. Maybe I'm just still
disappointed from Google Buzz.

~~~
wtn
It's amazing that they can't succeed despite their foothold. Everyone in my
age group whom I know uses Gmail and uses chat on the Google Talk network.
Almost no one uses Google Reader or Google Buzz.

~~~
Legion
No one uses Google Reader? Is that in general, or among people who understand
and use RSS?

~~~
georgieporgie
Among my friends who work _at_ Google and are avid consumers of RSS feeds, all
hate Google Reader. In fact, I heard murmurs about how incompetent the Reader
team is/was and how it's not up to snuff compared to other products.

I use it, but I hate it. I'm just too lazy to find something better and port
my feeds over.

~~~
true_religion
Out of curiosity, what's wrong with Google Reader?

~~~
GiraffeNecktie
My big problem with Google Reader is that I still can't use my Google Apps
account with it on my Android device. WTF? This is a Google product on a
Google phone accessing a Google service using a Google-based account and
Google still can't make it happen?

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rams
<http://twitter.com/#!/googlesxsw/status/46986827206361088>

We're not launching any products at #SXSW but we're doing plenty else. Join us
for #H4ckers & 80s dancing today <http://goo.gl/yV4fP>

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lachyg
I think a social network that has the ability for friend groups / circles is
way over due. Will be interested to see this!

~~~
kj12345
Yes, the name "Circles" is awesome. It's agressive and appealing when seen
from the perspective of "what do you offer that's better than Facebook", but
also generically pleasant if you just encountered it as a product.

~~~
WalterGR
_Yes, the name "Circles" is awesome._

Yup. Circles was also the name of social groups in Microsoft's threedegrees
software.

~~~
malnourish
Is that in a similar enough field for trademark infringement?

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bayareaguy
A "dot.com" company called eCircles[1,2] took exactly this approach between
1998-2001. They were later sold to Classmates[3].

1-
[http://www.pcworld.com/article/9704/join_hands_in_ecircles.h...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/9704/join_hands_in_ecircles.html)

2- <http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-55246946.html>

3- [http://books.google.com/books?id=OCRdSXSKZ-AC&pg=PA131&#...</a>

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karterk
Although my first instinctive reaction was negative, I really do hope Google
gets this right. Frankly, a lot of people are pissed with FB's privacy issues,
and if Google can take a new and refreshing approach to this (complicated)
problem, it would be interesting to see how things pan out.

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Stevenup7002
Not happening - <http://twitter.com/googlesxsw/status/46986827206361088>

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chanon
Facebook can already do this and it's called 'Lists'. (Account/Edit
Friends/Create a List). You just put your friends in 'Lists', and then each
time you want to post something but show or hide it from certain Lists you can
click on the padlock icon and choose 'custom - edit' and type in the name of
the List before posting. This applies to both wall posts and photo albums.

Problem is I guess the average Facebook user doesn't even know about the
capability. Google may come up with an easier to use UI for this, but Facebook
can just improve their UI and give more weight to this feature in it.

Unless Google has a completely new model that Facebook finds incompatible to
their model then this is just a 'feature'.

~~~
nextparadigms
I've been looking for a big improvement to Lists for a while now. The way it
works now makes it almost useless. I want to be able to easily post a message
or comment without hundreds of people seeing it. I want to post a message in
context and only the people who would be interested in it would see it.

~~~
daakus
If you click on the lock icon on Facebook to set privacy, you can type in
names of lists to explicitly hide or specifically limit content (blacklist or
whitelist). This would allow posting some piece of content controlled via a
named list of people you've created.

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gaiusparx
Sounds promising with the ability to separate family with friends. And Google
Circles is better name than Google Me! Let's hope its viable alternative to
FB.

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bane
Great, I can't wait to spend a bunch of time getting situated with yet another
new service that Google will probably kill off in a year when it fails to
overcome some arbitrary metric for success.

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zaidf
Social is to Google what search is to Microsoft.

~~~
tommi
This comment is to parent what Social is to Microsoft ;)

Seriously talking, it seems like you are underestimating the value of search
to Microsoft.

~~~
gaius
Not value - understanding.

Microsoft _gets_ Office for example. It's never been entirely comfortable with
the Internet, of which search is a part - it's how the company as an entity
thinks. Search is baked into everything Google does, it's in their corporate
DNA. But they _think_ about social the way MS thinks about search.

~~~
zaidf
Bingo.

When you have google execs making fun of social on the record from few years
ago, it sounds a lot like Gates saying "The Internet? We are not interested in
it".

No ones talking about value because value isn't static. At the end of the day,
the good big cos realize they f'd up and what they were once making fun of
does _indeed_ have tremendous value.

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michaelchisari
Appleseed has used friend "Circles" to organize friends since around 2006.
Good to see this idea catch on. ;)

Here's to hoping Google's social network has some solid federation features
baked into it.

~~~
blhack
Okay, I'll bite.

Tell me why I should use appleseed instead of using facebook.

~~~
michaelchisari
Same reason you might want to host your own web server instead of using
Geocities.

And if you don't host your own, the competitive eco-system that's created by
federation means you can move your profile between nodes, without losing
access to your social network.

~~~
blhack
I do not understand any of what you just said.

I would want to host my own webserver instead of using Geocities because
hosting my own webserver means that I can write my website in whatever
language I want, and that there is no limitation on what I can use it for
(like DB restrictions, or domain restrictions).

What is "the competitive ecosystem that's created by federation"? What reason
would I ever have for moving my profile between "nodes"? What is a "node"?

I'm not trying to be harsh, sorry if it sounds like I am. I believe I signed
up for appleseed a while ago when you linked it here, but I couldn't figure
out what was special about it.

~~~
michaelchisari
_I would want to host my own webserver instead of using Geocities because
hosting my own webserver means that I can write my website in whatever
language I want, and that there is no limitation on what I can use it for_

And with Appleseed, you can run your own social networking site, theme it how
you want, add third party features, build extensions, etc.

 _"the competitive ecosystem that's created by federation"?_

Think of it like email. If you decide you don't want to be on gmail anymore,
you move to hotmail or yahoo, or you set up your own server, and since SMTP is
federated, you can still email all of your contacts, you're not walled off.

The same principle applies to Appleseed and distributed social networking.

(A "node" is just a social networking website that is compatible.)

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orijing
> We speak to our "friends" all at once, no matter what we might want to say
> to one group of people or another. And thus we often feel less comfortable
> than we might saying anything at all.

I don't understand. We can do that on Facebook already. In fact, I already do
that... I have friend lists, and different people see different statuses
depending on context.

I don't see the problem Google is trying to solve. I'd be happy to be
enlightened though.

~~~
ern
I also use Facebook friend lists, and I often post things to my status that
are restricted to close friends only. I also restrict Facebook chat using
friend groups. The problem is that these friends have no way of knowing that
they are the only ones in on the conversation so they feel constrained. Also,
most people I know don't bother to segment their friends.

I also group people on Twitter into lists, in the hope that the lists will
become useful someday.

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chrismiller
Google does not seem to own circles.com. I wonder if they are planning on
using google.com/circles or maybe another alternative domain.

~~~
nextparadigms
I usually don't like how every google product is just a subdomain or a folder
of the google.com domain. Products with runaway success need to have their own
domain. Can you imagine if Facebook was at microsoft.com/facebook? Or Twitter
was at google.com/twitter? That would seriously slow down adoption.

~~~
stanleydrew
Have you considered the cookie implications of every Google product living on
a separate domain? We'd have to login so many times.

~~~
benatkin
Bingo. It's not a bad domain, and I think they'll want to be sure users are
logged into other google services when they're using it.

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ireadzalot
It seems like their idea of social network is modelled after Path.com's model
of only having very close friends' special circle. Path turned down Google's
offer to buy them few months ago.

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tomjen3
About time, though I wonder how useful this will be since there are
fundamental network effects standing in way.

I actually hope this will inspire facebook to get it's act together.

~~~
Lost_BiomedE
I probably won't use social networking sites unless they are useful even as a
standalone page. I like google profiles and would enjoy extensions including
reader integration, delicious-like page, and a good CMS site, etc. Allowing a
public view version and private/friends version would push me to join the
social network club.

Essentially, I would want it useful to me first and the social aspect as an
addition. This can allow for slow take-off that would bypass some barriers to
entry.

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spullara
It really is amazing that publishing to Facebook friend lists isn't more
intuitive and easy. I do it but it takes like 4 clicks and some typing to
choose a list. All they need to do is make that easier, creation of lists
easier and all these kinds of narrow social efforts will be for naught. It
must be that Zuck hates friend lists or they would be better by now.

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Daniel14
Any competition to facebook is extremely welcome..

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mark_l_watson
I like the idea of having different circles or trust: different circles for
family, for different groups of friends, different customers.

That said, trust issues: I still miss Wave (yeah, it is still running but for
how long; also the Apache Wave in a Box project seems to be moving slowly).
Just for PR value, I think that Wave should be supported in maintenance only
mode.

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dougabug
Google faces two major obstacles in its social networking ambitions: an
implementation problem, and a brand problem. On the implementation side, their
previous offerings have not been compelling. On the brand side, people
generally aren't eager to see Google's reach over their personal lives
extended. That is, even if the implementation were compelling, the prospect of
Big Google getting bigger, at least in the arena of gathering personal
information, appeals to no one outside of Google. This parallels the growth of
Microsoft's negative brand equity a decade and a half earlier. No one wanted
to see a bigger Microsoft. The privacy guarantees alluded to in the original
article make it clear that Google is intent on addressing both issues, yet I
remain skeptical. Culturally, I don't see Google having individual privacy or
freedom from tracking/slicing and dicing as core values. Eric Schmidt's
indiscreet comments last year were more telling.

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nopassrecover
Sounds a lot like an idea I was considering, until I saw BrainTrust.io had
already attacked it and The Fridge (YC S10) had followed up. The problem for
someone like Google, as I see it, is "competitive advantage" boils down to
"it's like Facebook except you can share stuff just with certain groups".
Except, Facebook already has groups.

~~~
karterk
Facebook groups seems to me like an after thought. On the other hand if Google
builds something which has the privacy and groups built right into the core,
it will make a different experience. Whatever it is, they certainly have the
reach which other start-ups like The Fridge might not have.

~~~
nopassrecover
Agreed that they seem an after thought, but with the talent they are acquiring
and the resources at their disposal, I can't see anyone beating Facebook on a
features basis. They might on a privacy basis, but I'm not sure Google has a
lot more confidence in that respect than Facebook.

~~~
JonnieCache
I think you're underestimating the potential in building a new social network
with the concept of firewalling groups of contacts _at the foundation_ of the
infrastructure.

For example, if friendships in this new system _cannot exist_ in the data
schema without being part of a group/circle, this would have profound effects
on any ecosystem built on top of it, extending right up to the broader U[I|X]
level.

You could compare this to how facebook built their whole success on the
concept of activity feeds, which was arguably their killer feature over
myspace. Myspace _did have_ similar functionality, but it was tacked on in the
way that groups are tacked on to facebook.

Hopefully google can kill facebook by building their offering with privacy
groups right at the core, and layering everything else on top of that.

EDIT: I think what I'm trying to say is that privacy has massive potential to
be a core feature/selling point _in and of itself._ It could also potentially
form the foundation of a more successful social networking platform/ecosystem
full stop.

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iM8t
People will have to choose either to use Facebook or Circle. Well... a lot of
ppl won't join the Circle because there aren't all of their friends and they
will simply stick to facebook. Is it just my opinion that this is going to be
really exciting for the first few days and then simply die off like the
amazing product - google wave?

~~~
gaius
_a lot of ppl won't join the Circle because there aren't all of their friends_

I'll wager there's a significant overlap between FB and GMail users.

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drostan
I think people exist in circles, but they don't necessarily talk or share in
circles. If Google, or anyone, wants to mimic real social interaction, they
need to find a way to enable talking to the right people for that moment and
that content. Even the closest circles don't work in daily life. Rarely do I
think "I'd like to go skiing with 'best friends' or 'school friends'". I'm
much more likely to think of who skis, who hasn't just had a kid, who hasn't
just lost her job, who has a job that allows vacation, etc. Maybe I make a
circle for just that, but it seems a) difficult and b) overkill. The outreach
and sharing only to that circle just isn't the hard part of the communication.
Seems like all that solves is "I can't find that email thread about the ski
trip in my inbox".

I'd love replies to this line of thought b/c it actually was a bit of a look
in the mirror on some stuff I'm working on.

~~~
mcburton
You are on the right track IMHO. What is key is that 'best friends' or 'school
friends' are highly contingent and ambiguous constructs. They are not fixed,
but rather are dynamic through time–people flow in & out of circles for a
multitude of reason–which is very hard to operationalize technically. More
engineers & techies should at least be familiar and respect more social
theory, not because it represents some 'true' representation of how real
social interaction works, but more as food for thought when designing
social/technical infrastructure(or as we say in the biz sociotechnical ;). I
see echos of Erving Goffman, Harold Garfinkel, Anslem Strauss, and Emilie
Durkheim in RWW's description of circles.

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twidlit
I like the name, and the concept 'hook'. Here is to hoping that Google nails
the UX and if its really really good. utilize google.com / gmail / android
tastefully to get to critical mass.

I am not sure if i want Google to be successful in social though, too much
power in a single company...

~~~
szany
If you had to pick a single company to succeed in social, would you not pick
Google?

~~~
JonnieCache
Yes.

Google has had a company wide task force of engineers since 2007 called the
'data liberation front.'

<http://www.dataliberation.org/>

I think they have the muscle to take facebook's crown when it comes to the
more personal, friends and family side of social networking. I also trust them
to take my rights and my privacy seriously. A lot more seriously than facebook
does at any rate.

Best case scenario: they nail the UX, and bring in a little of the awesomeness
of wave while they're at it.

Good luck to them.

------
nhebb
I'm a member of a few private Google Groups, and I hope this works out as a
viable replacement. It would be nice to expand private groups beyond just
discussion and have the ability to share photos, documents, and other media.

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ggordan
I'm really excited to see what they come up with. I think they have the
ecosystem to make a really successful social network. Let's see if they
utilize it to its full potential.

Does anyone know what time the even is meant to start?

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Vic-nyc
That is exactly what I needed in my life...another social network! I had a
feeling something was missing and now it's obvious that it's the lack of
enough online 'social networks'..

~~~
Lost_BiomedE
Oddly enough, I am still looking for one that will work for me. I bet there
are others out there who fill the same.

I do wish that companies did not try and recreate myspace, facebook, etc. I
would rather them build the next thing and allow the internet to catch up to
the concept.

Internet identity is getting more important. The average user is now just
getting a whiff of the value in having a your own web footprint and what that
entails.

I want to see a social site with a mullet...business in the front, party in
the back.

------
Newky
I hope they retain the open nature of google wave with this project. Even if
it fails some people benefit from it still.

for example Novell as far as I am aware use a Google Wave like service still.

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noibl
Surely 'major' is premature?

Downvotes.. interesting. What I mean is that I'm not sure what is going to
make it 'major' within the near future. They tried converting the Gmail
userbase once before.

~~~
shadowsun7
Your comments need to add value, noibl. The clarification helps.

FWIW, word on the ground says that Brin is personally involved with Google's
new Social efforts. So 'major' is right - at least internally, Google's
throwing the big guns at this one.

~~~
noibl
Lots of things have had a lot of resources thrown at them only to utterly fail
to make an impact on the world. I'm sure that _internally_ , Google keenly
appreciates this fact. So although I knew about Brin's commitment to this area
I'm still left wondering what the recruitment strategy is going to be, given
that it needs to win FB users and not just everybody else. And more
troublingly, why RWW is so gung ho about it.

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alienreborn
If they can really figure out an easy and intuitive way to solve the problem
of sharing statuses to only a set of people then it would be really
interesting. Eagerly awaiting! :)

~~~
orijing
You can already do that on Facebook easily.

------
Stevenup7002
Interesting, but we already have Facebook groups, Diaspora, Frid.ge, I even
developed my own site to solve this problem last year, Buddify. What exactly
is new here other than social group separation? Speaking from experience in
this field, I'm certain this won't take off, it's very difficult to gain
traction with a new social network in an age where facebook is still growing
at a steady pace. Unless I'm missing something here?

~~~
karterk
Never say never. Admittedly Google's recent track-record with seemingly social
products like Buzz and Wave is not terrific, something tells me they would
have learnt from them and would be looking to do things differently this time
(if at all the rumor is what it is).

~~~
Stevenup7002
Well I could be horribly wrong, of course. I prolifically said back in 2007
that Android would never take off ;). I just think the odds are against Google
at the moment unfortunately.

------
ddfisher
If Google is going to be launching a social network called "Circles" in the
near future, I think they would launch it tomorrow, because tomorrow is Pi
Day. (This is meant in all seriousness, Google seems to enjoy small flourishes
like that in general, and it would fit with their company culture.)

------
amitagrawal
Circles is a such a nice name for a social network!

I've been waiting to see what a behemoth like Google comes up with when
they've put a lot of muscle to a product they've never before approached.

Looking at the presentation by Paul Adams (The Real Life Social Network) I can
only hope it's just as exciting!

------
uast23
What Google is to Microsoft in search, Facbook is to Google in Social. But
Google has the advantage of trusted brand value(not that MS is not trusted,
but with Google it's at diferent scale) so it should get more market share in
social than Bing got in search.

------
praptak
Hmm... if they leverage what they have (search), they might give Facebook a
run for their money. I'd definitely like my search results filtered by what my
friends like. And even more by what they dislike (die, search-engine-
optimizing crap farmers, die!)

------
mscarborough
I wonder what the likelihood of an export feature is.

I'm not a big user of Google services (but more now with Android), but seems
like there are some cool possibilities with Google Voice and gmail...provided
they get the privacy protection part right.

------
xtacy
Facebook allows you to export your pictures and most of your interaction,
except for the contacts. It would be interesting if Google has a way to import
this into its network.

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alexsb92
But the true question is: could Circles be used as a verb?

"Hey, I'll circle you. Don't worry."

Yes you can! So Circles is a possible contender to FB piece of the pie.

------
koski
In my daydream this is identi.ca compatible. And that again would mean OStatus
"protocol" combatible.

What ever it is, competition is always good.

------
elvirs
Google has already shown that it does not get social. Google Docs, Youtube,
Picasa Web Albums, etc. have huge social potential but Google failed to
leverage that.

Attempts with Buzz, Connect and Wave are examples where Google tried too hard
but failed.

If they fail this time too, Google should stop spending huge budgets trying to
built something internally and invest in new emerging disruptive startups that
want to storm the social thing.

------
digamber_kamat
Finally death to ailing Orkut.

------
shalmanese
Does anyone have solid details of when/where the launch will be?

------
kunjaan
Didn't Eric Schmidt say something like you should not be doing things you want
to hide? To follow that thought, what is wrong with Facebook's idea of
everybody is a friend and my life is an open book?

~~~
snprbob86
Schmidt's quote was taken out context and his view has been grossly
misrepresented. In context, he said that when required by local laws, Google
has to provide records, so don't give Google any data you don't want the
government to be able to get their hands on.

------
nobodyzzz
Google Circles of no life

------
diamondhead
I think the only thing we need is a kind of Github to create, maintain and
follow the information (links, texts, docs, etc) we are interested at. Similar
to wikipedia, without formatting boundaries. We need both chaotic and
programmable collobration platform to access and eleminate information.

