
Hello, LineageOS 17.1 - qilo
https://lineageos.org/Changelog-24/
======
mikece
I love the project but I worry about the brain trust working on and improving
the project getting massive "OMGWTF?!" offers to work full-time for Google on
Android itself. Over-paying per head to lure the main devs away from Lineage
would be a devious and effective way to put a stop to it.

~~~
kagenouta
This actually happened once before -- Cyanogen himself spent several years
working as an engineer at Samsung. The project didn't actually start running
into serious sustainability issues until the team tried to build it into a
company.

Of course, that's probably got to do with bus factor. A similar story happened
w Paranoid Android, only OnePlus hired _several_ of their devs to work on
OxygenOS, and the project hasn't been the same since.

~~~
kubanczyk
That's why I pay attention to the license when contributing to FOSS.

For MIT, BSD, Apache 2, it's quite easy for a company to hire a handful of
active maintainers and starve the original project by redirecting their
attention to a closed-source fork.
[http://hintjens.com/blog:27](http://hintjens.com/blog:27)

GPL, and especially AGPL, are better in this regard.

------
pachico
Although possible, I wish installing operative systems in phones was as simple
as it is for computers. I'm already hearing experts saying it is the simple
but it's not :(

~~~
noisem4ker
There's a full spectrum of possibilities here.

\- Google lets you flash Android from the browser, using WebUSB:
[https://flash.android.com](https://flash.android.com).

\- Most Android phones can be unlocked and flashed with some command line
tool.

\- With Apple, you're screwed.

~~~
pabs3
With an old enough iPhone bootrom you can install Android using a jailbreak:

[https://projectsandcastle.org/](https://projectsandcastle.org/)

------
brnt
Excellent project, and glad 10 finally came through. I never buy a phone that
isn't supported by LineageOS, and it's the first thing I install when I get a
new (or old!) one.

I see my Pixel is not yet supported though (by 17.1). Could not find a list of
phones that should be getting support later on. Anyone know if I am missing
something?

~~~
_bxg1
Last I used Lineage (a couple years ago), device support was entirely
community-driven. Basically someone has to come forward and say "I want to be
the champion for device X", and then that person or Lineage had to have one of
that device physically on-hand for testing, and then that person and any
others who volunteer are responsible for porting each new version to that
device and maintaining compatibility.

So the spread of devices tends to be based on how popular/beloved that device
is by the community. This can partly have to do with price/specs, but it also
has to do with how easy it is to maintain (does it have a locked bootloader?
is it available internationally? does it have weird, proprietary drivers that
are hard/impossible to get working?).

For example: the Samsung Galaxy S 3-5 are _still_ supported. The S3 came out
in _2012_ (it was a great phone with an unlocked bootloader; I had one). On
the other hand, I don't see any mainline Galaxies _newer_ than the S5 on the
device list.

OnePlus tends to be well-supported.

Nexus devices were well-supported, but perhaps the Pixels have gotten more
locked-down? I haven't been keeping up with that sort of thing.

~~~
tryptophan
>On the other hand, I don't see any mainline Galaxies newer than the S5 on the
device list.

They started locking their bootloaders, and nobody has been able to bypass the
lock.

~~~
gnufx
That can't be right, as e.foundation sell S7 and S9 preloaded. I haven't done
it, but flashing instructions are at
[https://doc.e.foundation/devices/starlte/install](https://doc.e.foundation/devices/starlte/install)
for example.

~~~
tryptophan
The international Exynos version is crackable. The one that matters, the
Snapdragon version that will work with US networks is not cracked.

~~~
edjrage
You mean "the one that matters" _to you_? You realize most people don't live
in the US, right?

~~~
mindslight
Also, people that live in the US and don't want Qualcomm's insecure-by-design
integrated baseband/application processors.

------
rv-de
Two months ago I bought an OP3T on Ebay specifically for LOS 16 and I am super
happy with it.

Actually, I am running LOS for microG so I can still use apps like Uber, Moia
or FreeNow.

OnePlus phones have been so far the best devices for LOS. OP phones are great
by themselves. One reason why they have been so consistently supported by the
LOS project is because the boot loader is unlocked with ease.

~~~
as1mov
> Uber, Moia or FreeNow

Does Uber work fine with microG? Last I tried the map rendering was messed up
and I couldn't really use it.

~~~
rv-de
It works but it sometimes takes some fiddling or restarts with those kind of
google depending apps until the intention is accomplished. So, I wouldn't
recommend LOS to the average user. But most apps I use work perfectly fine.

~~~
as1mov
LOS with GApps flashed makes it work without any issues, it's just that some
apps don't work if you replace GApps with microG.

~~~
rv-de
I try to go as far without Google as I can. So I use microG. Generally, I am
very happy with the experience and don't look back to my S7. It's my backup
phone. For traveling I might resort to it to be on the safe side - also that's
when I am most dependent on apps requiring GApps.

------
jaimex2
Having OnePlus phones running OxygenOS completely removed any need I
previously had to flash a custom rom as soon as I bought it.

It's such a nice out of the box pure Android experience with monthly updates.
They are doing a stellar job.

Its still great to know once they drop support I can keep my OnePlus 6 going
for a few extra years with LinageOS.

If you have a phone that runs like crap because of all the bloat I can't
recommend flashing Linage enough.

~~~
petre
What should I get if I'd like a phone that's 1. not huge 2. not ancient as in
max 2y old and 3. runs LineageOS? I have a Nexus 5 now. The rubber has started
to peel off, the battery is toast. I wanted to get a Galaxy S10e but can't
flash it with any decent non spyware.

~~~
genpfault
Best I could swing a year or two ago was a Moto X4; still running it and looks
like it has a 17.1 maintainer.

Still bigger than I'd like and no user-replaceable battery :(

Does have a MicroSD card slot though.

------
lsh
Removed 16.0 devices:

Wilefox Storm (kipper)

Xiaomi Redmi Note 7 Pro (violet)

Yu Yuphoria (lettuce)

\---

I bought a device with the express purpose of installing Lineage OS and not
having to worry about it for the next ~5 years. Less than four months later
support was removed.

~~~
h4waii
I'd recommend this as a great time to start building directly from the source
(either LOS or AOSP) so you can provide yourself with updates, including
Android Security Bulletins, as they are merged in to LOS or AOSP.

You won't get any device-specific updates or bugfixes without applying them
yourself (or going out of tree), but someone already did the hard work since
it's an official device and has essentially full functionality. You'll be able
to keep your device supported until Lineage drops the version.

Curiously, which device did you purchase?

~~~
nsomaru
So, where does one start, and what's the process?

I'd be looking to get a nexus 5x to run 17.1

~~~
h4waii
To start,
[https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/bullhead/build](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/bullhead/build)
but you won't get 17.1 support from official Lineage sources. The most you can
do is the latest 15.1 with the last ASB merge from Google, but at that point
you may as well find the last official and install.

I'd recommend looking for other 'trustworthy' developers who are working on
your device in the open. You can install their pre-compiled builds or you can
use their sources for your own builds. There are unofficial builds of Android
17.1 on XDA [0].

0\. [https://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-5x/development/rom-
li...](https://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-5x/development/rom-
lineageos-17-1-t4049993)

------
Night_Thastus
I want LineageOS so badly, but it does not support the Samsung A50. (Frankly,
no projects like it apparently do) I didn't know before I bought it and now
I'm stuck with it. :/

------
teekert
It's till unclear to me if I can now just download the new zip, download the
new openGapps (on the phone), boot to twrp, select both zips and boot into
them keeping all my apps and their data. I don't need adb right? Also, I don't
need to loose any data, right?

Edit: Well for anyone reading this, I just did this and everything works and I
have android 10 (with all apps and their data intact. Took 10 min, very nice).

~~~
clort
you had LineageOS installed already though?

~~~
teekert
Yes, indeed and twrp, on my OnePlus3. New installs require complete wiping
afaik.

~~~
kagenouta
Depends on your device state. If you've unlocked your bootloader already, you
should only need to wipe system-level partitions (which would affect
applications, but not user storage).

But if you haven't, you need to do that first, which requires you to wipe your
entire device, including data.

------
eXpl0it3r
I was quite happy to use LineageOS for my Nexus 5X and it worked great up to
the point where my bootloader was now unlocked and certain apps, like for the
bank or remote access apps, did not work anymore, as they considered the
device unsecure. Do other phones allow you to flash the bootloader checksum,
so you can lock it again?

~~~
h4waii
There are a few AVB 2.0 devices that will allow this, including the Pixel
series, and the OnePlus 5T, but it can be risky. GrapheneOS works seamlessly
with it, allowing you to relock the bootloader and only accept signed-OTA
updates.

You may be interested in the Magisk [0] project which allows your device to
pass Google's "SafetyNet" and present as an unmodified device to apps using
that API to detect if they should refuse to run for "security" reasons.

0\. [https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk](https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk)

~~~
zozbot234
Note that Google SafetyNet is now (as of mid-March 2020) requiring hardware-
based remote attestation in order to pass their "CTS" check. This check _will_
fail if the bootloader is not in its default "locked" state, and cannot be
feasibly bypassed by Magisk.
[https://github.com/topjohnwu/magisk_files/blob/master/notes....](https://github.com/topjohnwu/magisk_files/blob/master/notes.md)

Magisk (and even its 'hide' component) will still be useful for many purposes,
but we should not be expecting it to pass all such "safety" checks.

------
hedora
Does this call out to google services by default? I stopped paying attention
after they rejected MicroG.

~~~
solarkraft
No, it does not, but it does (often) contain some proprietary drivers.

What you are (probably) referring to is the rejection of signature spoofing
patches required to use MicroG, probably over security concerns.

LineageOS is however still the best (mostly) free version of Android, by far.
Almost all custom ROMs not based on manufacturer ones or AOSP are based on
LineageOS and that's for a very good reason. I consider it the Debian of
Android.

Because of the rejection of the patches (and LineageOS still being pretty
cool, with impressive hardware support), the microG project provides builds of
LineageOS with microG pre-installed and man, it's great! Everything just
works. Hardware support is the same as that of LineageOS. Consider me a happy
customer :-)

[https://lineage.microg.org/](https://lineage.microg.org/)

~~~
h4waii
I believe both DNS and the network connectivity check hit Google endpoints
after a fresh install.

------
maelito
If only there could be an open source desktop version of Android on par with
Samsung's Dex...

~~~
zozbot234
Desktop docking support for AOSP is hardware dependent. If it works on a
Samsung stock build, it _should_ work on the same device when flashed w/
official LineageOS.

~~~
maelito
Yes, but the desktop interface of AOSP is far behind Samsung's as far as I
know.

~~~
kagenouta
Tl;dr up front: For now. The UI _absolutely_ isn't as fleshed out, but that's
not the thing that makes this important.

Yeah, it's built primarily as a test environment for apps that require free-
form multiwindow, multi-resume, and the like -- think foldables, mostly. So
it's pretty skeletal at the moment. (Incidentally it's also hidden behind a
developer flag.)

However, it's managed by the system launcher, meaning it can be extended by
the community or by OEMs, and the Android team is actively encouraging people
to do that. It also means that there's a set of standard interfaces for them
to build this functionality on. The latest version of DeX was reworked to use
it, LG rolled out an implementation with Android 10, and there have been
rumors of Nvidia working on a transformable SHIELD device. (I would assume
EMUI Desktop was also rebased, but haven't seen anything confirming that.)
It's also starting to pop up in custom ROMs like BlissOS.

This has much bigger implications than DeX did (or foldables do), imo, for a
few reasons:

\- Google has been slowly building out broader, less hardware-dependent
support for large form factors across a variety of projects - from ChromeOS'
Android runtime (which will _also_ benefit from more developers targeting
this), to Fuchsia's scalable UI, to Flutter's recent web and desktop support,
to PWAs (which are responsive by definition) and their integration into pretty
much every major platform. The ecosystem around convergence across their
products is actually a bunch of different pieces that are all evolving
somewhat in parallel, all of which are somewhat symbiotic with one another,
and many of which you can try out in some form _right now_.

\- That said, this particular piece has a much lower barrier to entry. You
don’t need a particular class of Android device or laptop, or a specific
product, or a custom ROM, or even _root_. That doesn’t mean the average user
will pick this up for a while, but the fact that the average user _can_
guarantees that a bunch of tinkerers and power users already are. Something
which never happened at scale for, say, Android tablets.

\- This creates a lot more incentive to build for desktops, with the potential
to then recycle that larger UI for form factors like tablets. Giving desktop
UIs a standard base means that supporting, say, DeX no longer has to mean
writing a vendor-specific implementation (see also: biometric sensors, styli,
and various other hardware classes that the ecosystem has picked up over time,
but only got broad third-party support after being added to AOSP), and the
fact that it only requires a display output on your device enables you to
target a much broader audience (even if your current audience is mostly just
places like XDA).

Putting aside broader conversations about the kinds of use cases that could
arise from convergent UIs, I’d argue that this is one of the biggest steps
forward we’ve had in a while toward making that future actually _happen_.

~~~
maelito
Thanks for your complete response. Do you have info about android 11's take on
the desktop interface ?

------
kmnns
Upgrading to LineageOS 17.1 on Fairphone 2 via adb sideload worked like a
breeze for me. Seems to be fully functional. Kudos to the maintainer
chrmhoffmann!

Notes:

\- It looks almost like 16.0, except for some icons.

\- There is no root image available so far, so you can’t use e.g. Adaway for
now.

------
jdofaz
Disappointed they didn't add any new google devices. It seems odd to me they
built this off of the Pixel 4 tag but they don't support the Pixel 4 (or the
2,or 3, or 3A).

I'll just keep running vanilla AOSP on my 3A :/

~~~
codethief
As a Pixel 3a owner, you might be interested in GrapheneOS ->
[https://grapheneos.org/](https://grapheneos.org/)

~~~
jdofaz
I hadn't heard of this, thank you

------
mikece
I am very eager to see the number of handsets supported increase. Right now
only my Galaxy S4 is supported; I would like to put this on my Nokia 3.1 Plus!

~~~
as1mov
Nokia doesn't allow bootloader unlocking afaik, so until they do support it,
chances of LineageOS on it are slim.

------
jackallis
I would LOVE, LOVE, for them to setup auto update without having to manually
install everytime new update comes around. Still running OS 14 on Galaxy S5.

------
Cribbio
Sorry, but LineageOS is pretty much a joke now. Most maintainers just randomly
stop maintaining devices after a little bit of time. Also, there is shady
stuff at the limits of legality when it comes to proprietary binaries. They
preach security is their focus, but doesn't look like that.

Also, vendor roms are quite good already, no need to install unstable roms
like it's 2015.

~~~
mimimi31
>Most maintainers just randomly stop maintaining devices after a little bit of
time.

Hasn't that always been the case? The project is community-driven and nobody
wants to maintain a device they don't use anymore. Often there are other
maintainers, but sometimes there are none.

>They preach security is their focus, but doesn't look like that.

I wasn't aware of any big security issues. Can you give an example? In terms
of security patches LOS is usually more up to date then the OEM roms.

>vendor roms are quite good already, no need to install unstable roms like
it's 2015.

They also come with all kinds of stuff many people don't want on their phones.
If want current security patches (especially on older devices) and no Google
Apps, preinstalled vendor apps, telemetry etc. you still have to install a
custom rom. In my experience LOS is very stable too.

~~~
unicornporn
> They also come with all kinds of stuff many people don't want on their
> phones. If want current security patches (especially on older devices) and
> no Google Apps, preinstalled vendor apps, telemetry etc. you still have to
> install a custom rom. In my experience LOS is very stable too.

This. I can highly recommend [https://grapheneos.org](https://grapheneos.org)
if you have a device that can run it.

~~~
tempuser24
Only Google Pixels if anyone is wondering.

