
Where Hackers (couldn't) Go - pclark
http://blog.omgponi.es/post/85991415/where-hackers-go
======
petercooper
_But, what if you’re in the UK, and you don’t want to leave. I’m 21, I could
easily move to the USA_

Unless there's something REALLY special about your circumstances, you almost
certainly couldn't - unless you had that £100+k already for an E-2 (or even
more for the investment green card option), were incredibly famous, have an
existing business here you can use L transfer visas on, or had certain types
of US family relationships. (I've wanted to get over to the US for a long
while now, and am patiently saving up the sums of money required, so I've
looked into it quite a bit! :))

Anyway, YCombinator isn't the only option. I'm based in the UK, started a
business in 2005 that got angel funding from US based investors, and sold it
in 2007 for a reasonable profit (though nothing crazy). It's doable.
YCombinator isn't the "only" option by any stretch. Work your network!

~~~
tomsaffell
> Anyway, YCombinator isn't the only option

For sure. But if you did get accepted then...

> Unless there's something REALLY special about your circumstances, you almost
> certainly couldn't

I'm not sure I'd go that far. I'm not a layer, and I'm not encouraging any
sort of illegal activity, but the visa waiver program might (at a push) be ok
for something like YC. Anyone tried? I worked for a firm in the UK that sent
me to the US to conduct 'internal meetings' once or twice before I got an L1
visa. I never dug into the detail of exactly what is allowed, but they seemed
confident that using the visa waiver program in that way was ok. The YC term
might require a trip to Canada. A lawyer in the back pocket might not be a bad
idea either..

~~~
petercooper
_but the visa waiver program might (at a push) be ok for something like YC._

It's really not. I'm not a lawyer either but this is very much illegal and you
will be deported (and be made ineligible to use the VWP ever again) if found
out.

You _can_ use the VWP to attend business meetings and certain types of sales
calls, warranty repairs, etc.. but actually doing "work" (even if not in
return for money) is a big no-no. With YC you'd actually be getting money AND
doing work.

 _I worked for a firm in the UK that sent me to the US to conduct 'internal
meetings' once or twice before I got an L1 visa._

Meetings would be okay. If you were actually "working" though, that was
illegal. That's not to say it doesn't happen all the time but it's still
illegal.

More info on <http://travel.state.gov/pdf/BusinessVisa.pdf>

------
Raphael
Disclaimer: This is entirely speculation as I have no direct experience in
these matter. I live in Seattle, WA, have never had a job, nor truly done a
start-up.

If you really need money, say for storing and serving terabytes of videos, and
you can't get the money all on your own, you might have a shot and getting
some local angel investor. Maybe not someone officially in the angel racket,
but one with money to invest and a weak enough will. Use your University or
other high quality contacts to find out where potential investors are spending
time, and go to the lake (or wherever), and make friends with them! Plus,
you're only a stone's throw from all of Europe, so you could take your idea on
the road to conferences and technological hot spots.

But this all assumes you need this nice bundle of money from the desk of Paul
Graham. Ask yourself, "What do I really need this money for?". Is it just
living expenses, a web server, and a shiny new laptop? Do you need to pay
employees too? Would it be an option to find a job and save up the money?
Considered leeching off friends, girlfriends, parents, or even homelessness?
(Depends on sanity and dedication, I guess.)

I'm with charlesju on this one: _Build a business and you won't need funding._
We all have ideas that are more interesting than monetizing. You need to
compromise this to have a true business. True, the interesting idea can pay
off long term (see Facebook for an extreme case that hasn't even played out
yet), but you need to think shorter to finance it if this is your path to seed
funding for the real project. Which is why,

And then there's the whole location fallacy. This is the internet, not real
estate for goodness sake. Just think: I'm sending you letters with zero
postage over the ocean like it's nothing. Is TechCrunch really gonna care that
you're not 5 miles down the street? If all they want to report on is Twitter,
then there is other media coverage out there. I know it's cliche, but there
are starving kids in Africa that would love to be in the place you are. And
you want to leave? Isn't there an adequate concentration of hacker types
somewhere the UK? Maybe I'm just spoiled with Microsoft and Nintendo operating
out of my backyard, but in a country with tens of millions, surely you can
find investors and a community of to work with. Find a club or organization
that draws the kind of people you need help from. Or pass a clipboard or a
digital equivalent around and start your own. So screw Silicon Valley! Make
your own fucking Fiber Optic Kingdom!

(And, when you've made all that £££ off of Cheeri2.0, you will effortlessly
gain passage to the Americas, just like you dreamed.)

------
swombat
Make your project make you money, and then use that money to pay yourselves to
work on it.

Seems pretty simple.

And if you can't make it make you that money, then perhaps it's not a
profitable venture to pursue.

YCombinator doesn't fund "projects" or even "real projects". They fund
businesses.

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marram
Here is another option: Quit your fulltime job and get a part-time gig. Reduce
your expenses so that you can scrape by on the part time salary. Crank out the
code until you have customers/user base, then go for funding.

This is what we've opted to do to get Sponty rolling. YCombinator would be
nice, but we're beyond the initial prototype and one of the cofounder cannot
quit his day job just yet.

------
charlesju
Build a business and you won't need funding.

~~~
Raphael
Exactly. Software and websites are so cheap compared to anything requiring a
storefront, the $15k of funding could just be saved up working a job, or with
revenue from some simple app that takes a week or two. Here's an idea for the
OP, try a clone of Facebook's gift feature, except in a standalone website
and/or iPhone app. (Make sure to take the YC pattern of eliminating the hassle
of user registration in some way.)

------
lfittl
If you're in the UK, I'm quite sure your best bet would be Seedcamp. I'm with
one of the 2008 teams, and their program was really worth it.

Their next deadline is April 6th for the London Mini Seedcamp
(<http://seedcamp.com/pages/london09>).

------
patio11
_you love the idea of spending 18 hours working out the best implementation of
a time zone checker_

If this is you, you will make an excellent employee for someone who knows how
to channel your attention to tasks that matter.

------
melvinram
I suggest the first place you go is <http://gettingreal.37signals.com/toc.php>

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chiffonade
> Why hasn’t this been done? Why is YCombinator the only place to go?

This _has_ been done plenty of times, and Y Combinator isn't the only place to
go. There's _lots_ of places/people you can go to in order to get < $100k of
startup capital.

You only know about YCombinator because they have invested a lot of time and
money into marketing their brand as a startup incubator. I know that term has
fallen out of fashion since the go-go 1990's, but that's exactly what they
are. Paul Graham writes essays and publishes them to the internet, he's
involved with open source, you're reading his marketing BBS right now, etc.

Get out of your apartment and start networking with people with money. If you
can't do that, try to save up some of your own.

