
Startups bet that lonely freelancers crave company - laurex
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-23/startups-bet-that-lonely-freelancers-crave-company
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LeonM
I'm in a co-working space, and the primary reason I took it was loneliness.

But I think that, for me, a social app wouldn't be able to replace a physical
work space. It's not just the interaction with co-workers, but also the
separation of work and home. The routine of riding my bike to and from the
office is like a mental barrier, helping me to switch between work and
leisure.

By going to my office, I effectively switch to work mode. I'm less inclined to
get distracted (HN, YT, Reddit, etc) while I'm at the office. Then, during the
ride back home I have time to reflect on the day. By the time I'm back home my
mind is clear and I can relax.

My findings are that (at least in the Netherlands) there is plenty of
opportunity for new co-working spaces. Currently it's hard for small or solo
businesses to find a suitable office. All offices I found are either geared
towards larger groups (10+), or had ridiculous requirements to be eligible.
All the 'innovation' spaces are hard to get in when you just make a software
product. They require some 'impactful' business to be accepted, which
basically means you can choose between creating yet another replacement for
plastic straws, or blockchain.

I don't need foosball tables, I don't need eco-vegan food, I don't want to
attend blockchain disruption events. I just want a desk to sit at, and do my
work.

~~~
gargs
I have thought about starting a little website where people open up their
living rooms every once in a while to create an ad-hoc coworking space. It
could even be the kitchen or the dining table, as long as you're sharing
ideas, learning, and getting to know what other people are working on. From a
business perspective, I'd rather make use of the plentiful libraries in
Amsterdam than pay for a coworking space.

~~~
itsEtai
Safety becomes a big issue for this kind of thing. It might make sense to
start by leverage a platform like couchsurfing which has a personal review
system.

~~~
gargs
Good point; I think it would initially involve some personal vetting as well
as starting at a local level. This could be made part of the listing process
where the only way to get verified as a member is to allow a designated
photographer if you're hosting, and some kind of social proof (LinkedIn?) if
you're looking for a space. I think this is a bigger concern in remote towns
and the countryside, though. For a city like Amsterdam, safety might not be
that big of an issue.

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ivanhoe
I thought that these type of arguments are stupid, like why would I need to
hang out with people in an office, I've got my buddies for that after work.
Later I moved to another country where I knew no one beside my wife, and then
I realized that mingling with office crowd is actually the easiest way to
expand your social circle when you're in a new environment. Yes, you can do
that on conferences or in a gym or clubs, but it all takes more effort for
introverts like me.

~~~
jackcosgrove
Even if you don't talk to others, being around people is very comforting. It
meets a basic need we have as humans.

~~~
dorkinspace
I think this is a generalization about the type of person you are. For me, I
much prefer to work in a space where I am completely alone. I like to have
music blasting without headphones, drink a smelly tea, or eat a stinky meal at
my desk.

I can't do any of those things in an office with others around me.

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steve1977
The primary reason why I would want to be a freelancer is because I DON'T
crave company.

~~~
spurdoman77
Have you tried freelancing alone, and of you have for how long?

After working at a company, initially it felt quite nice but after some
months/years I started feeling different. I have been working intensively at a
companies, and then as a freelancer/solopreneur, alternating both modes along
the years. Currently working mostly alone I have to admit that I crave the
workplace - kind of the place where you go work and meet other people and
share some kind of mission.

~~~
stingraycharles
I think this is very personal. I've been doing freelance, solo (from home)
since 2014 and I couldn't be happier. Workplaces drain energy from me for some
reason.

I do have a fair amount of good friends and other social activities, so I'm
definitely not lonely.

~~~
spurdoman77
Yeah, varies from person to person for sure. Nothing wrong with different
preferences.

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shekharshan
I worked remotely for almost 8 years. Even managed a team of 10 developers
remotely. I loved it as it gave me 2-3 hours each day for exercise and
meditation. The only issue was I could not establish a clear work start and
end time.

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dep_b
Can't vouch for people that are single but I get plenty of human interaction
around my family. Still I like to work out of the house one day per week and
work with different people in an office. I guess what's also important is
professionally mingling with people, what tools and frameworks people use and
so on. A change of scenery.

Actually it was nicer when my wife was working mornings, that would gave me a
solid quiet 5 hours to work in.

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anonsivalley652
Yes and no.

Coworking spaces exist but there's nothing like not being interrupted to
supposedly "watch someone's laptop"* when you're trying to get things done.

* You should take a picture of it and list it for sale on Craiglist as part of a joke.

~~~
cerberusss
> "watch someone's laptop"

I'm that guy. Whenever I need to work in a coffee shop, I ask this of a
coworker. Do you really feel like it's too intrusive? I never thought it would
be a problem.

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coldpie
Honestly, just go. No one's going to steal your stuff, and if they did, some
stranger isn't going to stop them.

~~~
cerberusss
You don't back up your assertion that, even after asking, some stranger isn't
going to stop them. But I distinctly remember a scientific experiment that
said otherwise. I googled and found this popular reporting:
[https://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/story?id=7091942](https://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/story?id=7091942)

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dglass
Shameless plug -- my company is working on solving this problem also, but
unfortunately we weren't mentioned in the article.

We talk with a lot of remote workers, freelancers, consultants, and self-
employed workers, and the common theme behind all our conversations is that
it's lonely working from home or on the road.

We hold Work Clubs in coffee shops to give people an opportunity to work
together for a few hours while getting to know other people and get out of the
house. We support local small businesses and are building an IRL community for
remote workers. Mental health is a major problem with working remote and we've
found this is a good way to help break the loneliness.

Feel free to reach out to me (my email is on my profile) with any questions or
comments, or check us out at
[https://outofoffice.app/](https://outofoffice.app/)

~~~
GrinningFool
This looks good, but I'm reluctant to sign up without seeing information about
what regions you're active in/have participants in. It would be frustrating to
go through the process only to find that there's nothing in my region.

~~~
dglass
Thanks for the feedback, and I don't blame you. Right now we've got
communities in Portland, San Diego, and the SF Bay Area. We'ree planning to
expand to a few new cities soon and are always open to people who want to host
Work Clubs in their own cities.

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linguistbreaker
I have not found co-working spaces (I've tried a few in different cities) to
enhance my productivity or my community. I have only been able to build
community around shared hobbies or interests outside of work. I HAVE wished
that there was a way to figure out who at a workplace shares my interests. For
instance when I start with a new client with a large workforce, if I could
quickly connect with who at that workplace is into BJJ, climbing, drones or
w/e, that would be useful.

This may be my individual personality - just my two cents.

------
pts_
And here I am craving work from home. It's like another planet.

~~~
HammockTester
Yeah I think there's a balance somewhere and for me it's not 40 hours a week
in an office. Maybe 20 hours in an office and 20 at home would be more
reasonable. I would imagine different people will have a different preferred
balance from 0 to 100%.

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devtul
You don't need to work remote to feel miserably lonely.

I moved to Canada with my wife, I consider myself lucky because I have two
couples of friends who also moved here. Apart from that, nothing.

People where I work don't even say bye when they leave. This is insanely
different from the country I came from, to say people there make a point of
striking up conversations and caring about you doesn't make justice, it is
just part of life. The worst part is that I am basically surrounded by fellow
countrymen (1/3 of the team) but they already conformed to the norm here.

This has affected our marriage since we don't have that healthy time away with
friends that heals any bad mood between us.

~~~
Benmcdonald__
Where are you from?

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jpm_sd
I work remote from home ~80% of the time and love the quiet solitude. But I
live with my my wife, three kids and a dog, so those hours of alone time feel
precious. If I lived by myself I think I'd go crazy.

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dntbnmpls
If this is what startups are working on and if this is startup news, then it
just might mean the tech world is awash in too much money with too few ideas.
Or the news has to sell ads and has publish something. I wonder where Brady
will end up? Oh that's sports "news".

Also, I'm willing to bet more 9-5 workers crave privacy and alone time than
freelancers want company.

Besides, if you crave company, isn't there something called family ( parents,
siblings, spouse, children, etc ) or friends or even pets that a better suited
for that role? Or why not take up a hobby like hiking, biking, etc for
company? Isn't there something inherently sad and pathetic about trying to
find company at work? Maybe it's modern society. I just don't get it.

~~~
jonfw
I don't understand the claim that work relationships are inherently non-
personal or inauthentic. I have legitimately good friends at work who do
favors for each other, look out for each other, hang out outside of work
sometimes, etc. I keep in touch with friends from past jobs.

We spend a very large percentage of waking hours at work and see a lot of
faces. I really enjoy being friendly with those people and having legitimate,
authentic, relationships with them.

~~~
veggieburglar
Yes, I have found that this approach <surprise!> makes the workplace much more
enjoyable. It feels like many HN commenters hate their work, workplace,
coworkers, etc. This mindset seems to be more problematic than the actual
working situation itself. Interacting with people is hard but necessary.

------
sudoaza
Is it you WeWork?

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gyre007
As a freelancer I never missed a company. Going freelance was a clear and
deliberate decision to not be a part of one.

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mirap
The next step might be to connect like-minded freelancers offline. Kind of
Couchsurfing way.

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merricksb
Paywall bypass:

[http://archive.is/cfbW6](http://archive.is/cfbW6)

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barnyfried
As a freelancer I dont want a startups "company". Yes, a fridge full of
kombucha is not really interesting. Nor is a bunch of people bragging about
spending VC money for no reason or working on useless garbage pseudo-product.
And Im not lonely. So, why dont we kick it old school, and you just pay me
money. As you have done for the last 20 years and will continue to do until Im
bored of you.

~~~
Noughmad
> So, why don't we kick it old school, and you just pay me money.

That's the whole point of all these extra "benefits": so that they can pay you
less money.

~~~
CGamesPlay
If the FAANG companies set any precedent, this isn’t really true.

~~~
Noughmad
Partially, but for those there's another catch.

They have the campuses with game rooms, food, daycare, etc. all in order for
you to spend as much time there as possible. They are literally building
company towns.

~~~
opportune
This is also really overplayed.

I know many people who work at big tech companies and I've spent some time at
a megacorp or two in my day. The on-campus amenities may keep you at work
longer (willingly!) but seem pretty orthogonal to how much time people really
spend working. Low-amenity Amazon has long hours, High-amenity Google has
pretty normal/reasonable hours, high-amenity Facebook has high-ish hours, low-
amenity Microsoft has normal/reasonable hours.

~~~
noirbot
Yea, I just see it as an added benefit that may or may not have value to me.
My current job has a happy-hour on Fridays with beer/snacks, but I'm usually
not around late enough in the day to attend. That said, once a month or so,
it's a free meal and a couple drinks, so it's an extra $10-20 a month I get to
save.

Things like free food are gimmicky, but it's also a non-trivial financial and
time benefit to not have to prep a fresh meal a few days a week. I'd take a
small salary cut to work somewhere where I got a healthy breakfast/lunch every
day for free. It's only $100 or so in actual food cost savings, but it's a lot
of mental overhead that you get to pass on. Lot less stress on my life to make
sure I prep enough for the week, and left to myself, I may not pick as healthy
of food as they'd prep for me.

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bencollier49
Unreadable.

