
The relationship between our moods and sunlight - af16090
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/is-the-dark-really-making-me-sad/
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SamBam
I was impressed by this part:

> In recent years, light therapy has experienced something of a backlash in
> Sweden, and Malmö’s clinic is one of only a handful that remain. In part,
> this was a response to a 2007 study by the Swedish Council on Technology
> Assessment in Health Care, which reviewed the available evidence and
> concluded that “although treatment in light therapy rooms is well
> established in Sweden, no satisfactory, controlled studies have been
> published on the subject."

My first thought was "Wow, a whole country that reacts to scientific articles
and statements about the lack of controlled studies."

(Of course, the article goes on to say that light therapy shouldn't really be
discredited yet, as controlled studies are hard.)

~~~
refurb
_My first thought was "Wow, a whole country that reacts to scientific articles
and statements about the lack of controlled studies."_

I'm assuming, it's not the country reacts, it's that Sweden's single payer
system refuses to pay for it any more.

Health technology assessments (HTAs) are done by a lot of countries like
Canada and Australia. Basically they make a judgement on the value of a
healthcare offering and if there is no evidence it works, they turn off the
funding.

~~~
SamBam
Ah, well actually I like that as well, but that's probably just because I'm a
paternalistic liberal... ;)

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Zaheer
The most depressing thing is leaving work after its dark. The brief amount of
sunshine in the morning is not nearly enough in a day.

~~~
infogulch
I've found that spending my lunch time walking or otherwise being outside very
helpful.

~~~
Declanomous
Seconded. This is one of the big reasons why I love where I work. It is
located across from Lincoln Park in Chicago, and it's a 15 minute walk to the
zoo or the North Avenue Beach.

I didn't realize how much I relied on my lunch excursions until I took a job
in the suburbs. I was across from a Costco and one of the biggest outdoor
malls in the nation. Walking to either of them from my building took half an
hour. As soon as I got to the destination I'd have to turn around and walk
back. Not to mention the walk was either alongside 6 lane roads with no
sidewalks or through parking lots.

The thought of going back to one of those suburban officeplexes gives me the
willies. You could double my salary and it wouldn't be enough.

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skolos
Long article, but here is the main part:

> Leading theory is the ‘phase-shift hypothesis’: the idea that shortened days
> cause the timing of our circadian rhythms to fall out of sync with the
> actual time of day, because of a delay in the release of melatonin. Levels
> of this hormone usually rise at night in response to darkness, helping us to
> feel sleepy, and are suppressed by the bright light of morning.

Edit: And alternative hypothesis from the article:

> When melatonin strikes a region of the brain called the hypothalamus, this
> alters the synthesis of another hormone—active thyroid hormone—that
> regulates all sorts of behaviours and bodily processes.

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Francute
I don't know why some people love sunlight, but in my case, normally, it's
make me angry, sleepy and tired.

Winter days, on the other side, make me start being productive again, start to
run, have healthy food, stick with a nice routine and have a good mood,
specially on drizzling days :)

And i know i'm not the only one.

Also, i enjoy night life a lot and, before starting working, always lived my
life during the period from 16:00 to 8:00. I did that more than my half life.
(Of course, my eating times were found weird for most people)

PS: I don't know if is unrelathed or not, but i'm diagnosed with
hypothyroidism. And not, i'm not antisocial, depressive, bipolar or anything
like that.

~~~
b_emery
> PS: I don't know if is unrelathed or not, but i'm diagnosed with
> hypothyroidism.

It is definitely related! Missing thyroid meds for just a few days could
explain the symptoms you describe.

~~~
NotOscarWilde
> _It is definitely related! Missing thyroid meds for just a few days could
> explain the symptoms you describe._

My girlfriend has hypothyroidism too, she takes the medication daily with
rigor, and the endocrinologic results are normal. And yet, she is consistently
much more tired than me, even though after a 9 hour sleep. We're currently
trying to rule out allergy contributions and psychosomatic contributions, but
living in Eastern Europe makes it not that easy to find helpful (and cheap and
available) doctors.

My point here is: don't assume all tired people with hypothyroidism skip their
meds or have a low dose.

~~~
dan00
Several shortages of like Vitamin-D, Vitamin-B12, iron, magnesium or calcium
are quite often associated with hypothyroidism, so it's a good idea to have a
look at them.

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_98fj
Details on the neuro-chemistry:

The mechanism for translating light into mood starts in the suprachiasmatic
nucleus*, which sits right behind where your optic nerves cross.

Light-sensitive nerves trigger and transfer that information to the pineal
gland, which in turn, starts breaking down serotonin to melatonin.

I dream about a brain implant that artificially stimulates the SCN. Control
that stimulation and you control sleep, serotonin, melatonine, hunger, cell-
growth, stress etc. etc. etc.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suprachiasmatic_nucleus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suprachiasmatic_nucleus)

~~~
killjoywashere
Probably the bigger issue is Vitamin D synthesis.

~~~
_98fj
I don't think so.

Serotonine is the most influential neurotransmitter most animals have. You
have two production sites in your body. Sleep, memory, behavioural learning,
pain-regulation, appetite, blood-pressure, sexual behaviour, body-temperature
are all controlled by it.

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fouadf
What about vitamin D which comes from sun exposure? Low levels of vitamin D
can make you feel down

~~~
BeetleB
>Low levels of vitamin D can make you feel down

The studies are pretty inconclusive about that.

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tuxxy
I live in Salt Lake City, and during the Winter it gets significantly darker.

I can definitely notice a difference in my mood and well-being when it's
brighter outside. It becomes like hunger or thirst where you're craving some
sunlight, and if you don't get it, you'll feel bad.

At least, that's my experience.

~~~
kmonsen
There is a vast difference between Salt Lake City and Scandinavia: SLC: Sunset
December 21st 5:03pm
[https://www.google.com/search?q=sunset%20salt%20lake%20city%...](https://www.google.com/search?q=sunset%20salt%20lake%20city%20december%2021st&*&rct=j)

Tromsø: 12:18pm
[https://www.google.com/search?q=sunset+Troms%C3%B8+december+...](https://www.google.com/search?q=sunset+Troms%C3%B8+december+21st&*)

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YCode
Sort of related -- anyone know if there's anything to "happy lights" that have
natural spectrum light or whatever?

~~~
dbcurtis
Sure. I use one. 10,000 Lux, 3 feet from my pillow, on a timer. Synthetic
sunrise, only instantaneous, which is admittedly sub-optimal. For me, it
certainly helps me get going in the morning.

~~~
frikk
So you use it in conjunction with an alarm? Or is it your primary alarm (built
in)?

~~~
dbcurtis
I use both. The light gets me sentient. The alarm a few minutes later keeps me
from being late.

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dheera
I took a trip to Longyearbyen a couple months ago when there is zero sunlight.
That was the first time in my life I did not see the sun rise, and I stayed
there for a week.

It was an interesting experience, and the nighttime landscapes were
spectacular, but I would probably not want to live there for a long period of
time.

In my normal work schedule I often get up at 5am, take a short hike or bike
ride and watch the sun rise, then head to the office. It makes the day a lot
happier and efficient when I start the day with a little time when I get to
see the sun, be myself, and don't have to deal with people.

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tjdalaska
Many polls indicate Alaska as one of the "happiest" states in the US. I would
argue that it is what you make of the light and/or activity level that makes a
bigger difference. I live in Fairbanks, Alaska, and we have very minimal sun
for half the year (3.5 hours at the solstice). Then you don't see darkness
from ~April to ~August. Those who bundle up and get out regularly (ski/ice
skate/play hockey/fat bike/walk/dog sled/watch northern lights) enjoy even the
-40 degree dark winters.

~~~
eagletusk
clever use of the intersection of Celsius and Fahrenheit there! (-40 is the
same in both scales)

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diggan
Coming from Sweden but now living in Barcelona, at least I feel happier. Could
probably be because of many reasons but I'm fairly sure the amount of sunlight
matters a lot.

In sweden during non-summer (which is like 9 months during the year), you go
to work in the darkness, witness the sun coming up for a few hours and when
you leave work, the sun is nowhere to be seen again. I just remember feeling a
lot more tired.

In Barcelona I wake up with the sun, can see the sun the entire day and still
have time after work to catch some hours of 100% sunlight outside before it
gets dark.

~~~
vanderZwan
I studied my masters in Malmö. We had one of the most collaborative, cohesive,
friendly classes I have ever had the pleasure of being a part of, and the
_only_ time we ever really, really got into a fight was in the middle of
winter, when we had a four-week project that forced us to go to a small room
in the middle of the building (no windows) from nine to four, essentially
cutting off access to sunlight during this entire period.

On the flipside, my happiest memories of Malmö are during my summer internship
when I would go to the beach after work around six, when everyone else left,
and enjoy the evening sun for four more whole hours

~~~
alicorn
Hahaha, I remember reading somewhere that, in medieval Sweden, if the kitchen
girl had not tried to stab someone by february, she was considered to be a
total pushover.

I live in Sweden myself and can relate, winters here are insane, due to
darkness that seems to last forever.

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dforrestwilson1
This is why I could not live in New York City.

~~~
crazygringo
But New York City has tons of sunlight, and particularly clear skies in the
winter. In fact, it's a gorgeous, bright sunny day at this exact moment.

(Unlike upstate New York, which can be extremely overcast -- I grew up there
and moving to the city is so much better).

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DoodleBuggy
TLDR: Being in the sun makes you feel better.

That's about as obvious a conclusion as discovering that if you're thirsty you
can drink water to feel better.

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mindslight
Yeah yeah, let's go on about the "virtues" of sunlight. I thought this was
Hacker News?

Anecdotally, I've found it much harder to concentrate on intellectual tasks
(eg programming) with bright daylight, even if it's entirely diffuse.
Similarly, lack of a standard height white ceiling is extremely demotivational
to doing non-computer tasks at night.

~~~
Retric
Humans do use sunlight to manufacture vitamin D and adjust sleep cycles so
this is hardly baseless.

~~~
mindslight
I'm not disagreeing with the effects described in the article - just making a
friendly knock at the standard narrative that always describes sunlight in
positive ways.

If sunlight influences a person's mood, then it follows that this influence
could be a negative for certain activities. Based on personal experience, I
believe this to be true for intellectual pursuits requiring concentration.

