
My embarrassing picture went viral - venti
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/02/my_embarrassing_picture_went_viral/
======
marknutter
> I don’t generally view my body size as positive or negative — it simply is.
> I eat right (most of the time) and I exercise (an inordinate amount), but it
> does little, thanks to a struggle with polycystic ovarian syndrome and a
> failing thyroid gland. I’m strong, I’m flexible and my doctor assures me my
> health is good, but the fact remains: I’m larger than someone my height
> should be.

I feel for her and the negative comments are reprehensible, but what I hear in
this particular paragraph are excuses. Having issues with POS and the thyroid
gland do not make it impossible to lose weight, just more difficult. My
advice: ignore the haters and come up with a game plan with your doctor to
lose the weight in a steady and health way.

~~~
chris_wot
Dear God man! You don't know anything about her. For all you know she's
already tried everything.

For that matter, the article says she is healthy and the doctors have given
her the all clear. So she's of a somewhat larger build - big fucking deal!

This is probably coming off wrong. I'm sure you mean well. But don't be so
quick to give healthy living advise to someone with a medical condition (or
for that matter, really _anyone_ ) you don't know. Put yourself in their shoes
- the point of this article really - how would _you_ like unsolicited,
judgmental advise about something you have little control over?

~~~
cabalamat
> For all you know she's already tried everything.

For all I know, her body might not obey the laws of physics that every other
object in the universe obeys. But I find that possibility somewhat unlikely.

If your food intakes contains less metabolisable energy than you use, you'll
lose weight. It's as simple as that.

~~~
chris_wot
Yeah, that endocrine disorder that scientists have been trying to cure for the
past 30 years or so can be solved. By _diet_.

I reckon you should make a phone call to the Polycystic Ovary Syndrome
Foundation with your astounding discovery, I'm sure they'll be really happy to
be told that sufferers can just eat less. Who knew all this time?

~~~
ciaranm
You've replied to this story about 15 times defending the woman's
eating/exercise habits. What's the agenda here? Most of the people you're
taking umbrage with aren't remotely disagreeing with the disorder; merely the
assertion that everything is a-okay and nothing more can be done.

The world doesn't work in absolutes and neither should you.

~~~
chris_wot
No agenda. But you're right, I have made a few too many comments here.
Something must have struck a nerve. Possibly the sheer mean-spiritedness of
the comments made (not here) about a stranger.

I think I'm gonna sign off for a while :-)

------
pmelendez
I admire her strong character. Most people on that situation would stay still
and regret about their selves, but she actually did something about it. That's
great.

Other thing I got from the article is the reminder that I am doing it well in
not uploading pictures to Facebook anymore.

~~~
coldpie
Yeah. I'm not strong enough to take this kind of abuse, I know it, and I take
steps to shield myself from it. I've never posted photos of myself online, and
I actively ask my friends not to as well. They've all taken it well and done
as I asked.

I think it helps having grown up on the Internet back before it had "safe"
places. If you think of everything posted on the Internet as public (because
it is), it really changes how you interact with it.

------
donquichotte
This is a classic example of open-loop behaviour. People behave like assholes,
but don't get the feedback they would be getting in real life.

It's like the restaurant in tourist areas. Bad meals? Unfriendly staff? No
problem - the customers won't be back, no matter whether the service is good
or bad. They are tourists and will go home tomorrow.

There's no tit for tat, no negative feedback. This doesn't work in
engineering, and it doesn't work in human interaction either.

~~~
makomk
Not really. In at least some of the internet communities that do this kind of
thing, there is actually pressure to conform to the community's norms - it's
just that the norms are fucked. For instance, anyone who stands up for the
woman in a picture like this will get called all sorts of insults in order to
pressure them to back down.

~~~
danielweber
Goes to show that peer pressure can be used for both good and for ill.

------
kaitai
It is sadly typical that this comment thread is full of discussions of how the
protagonist should lose weight. Thanks for reminding me, HN, how fat women do
not automatically deserve basic politeness [1].

I could be a skinnier person myself by counting calories and sprinting along
with my Olympic lifting and kettlebell workouts. I know that my effort could
be rewarded with a svelter frame. But you know what? I HAVE MORE INTERESTING
THINGS TO DO! Maybe the protagonist, too, has something better or more fun to
do with her life.

[1] A small sampling of evidence: Uberphallus living up to name: "At this
point I just don't understand why I should feel pity and display consideration
to fat people..."

Driverdan: "I would also add that people who don't have a medical condition
and who overeat cause the stigma people with medical conditions receive for
being overweight." (Being fat causes stigma why?)

Marknutter: "I feel for her and the negative comments are reprehensible, but
what I hear in this particular paragraph are excuses....My advice: ignore the
haters and come up with a game plan with your doctor to lose the weight in a
steady and health way." (re: OP's paragraph on having PCOS, being healthy.)

Alright. Time to do those more interesting things.

~~~
marknutter
> Maybe the protagonist, too, has something better or more fun to do with her
> life.

I think the article would have had more impact if _that_ was the reason she
gave for her weight, rather than citing her medical issues. Instead, citing
her medical issues seems to say that she _is_ interested in losing weight, but
sees those as insurmountable obstacles, and I was questioning their
insurmountability. Apparently encouraging people to overcome difficult
obstacles is considered offensive.

~~~
kaitai
I debated about including the quote from your content. It was not obviously
offensive, unlike some others. It did assume that she was interested in losing
weight, as you say above, which may or may not be true. Why do we give
excuses, after all? Because we don't really want to do stuff :)

It's true that I'm happier now that I can usually just say I don't care or
would rather do something else instead of making excuses. It's also true that
a fat person saying they don't really care about losing weight is looked at
like a two-headed guinea pig.

~~~
marknutter
I think there are two ways to deal with being overweight (or being really
skinny as I was growing up, which can be very detrimental socially for a guy),
and that is either to accept your weight and love yourself as you are or do
something about it and lose the weight (or in my case, build muscle). What I
hate to hear is people making excuses for not choosing either one of those
solutions. As soon as someone else who has the same afflictions you do
conquers their weight issues, your excuses are rendered moot. Either learn to
love yourself at your current weight or get to work.

------
peterwwillis
The Internet is a town square.

You, sitting at home with your friends, might happen across an amusing picture
and chuckle at it. Maybe even take some joy at some else's pain - we all do
that occasionally, it's fairly human. While it's not a good thing to do all
the time, you can enjoy yourself and your friends in privacy. Maybe even poke
some good-natured fun.

But those comments should remain in your living room. If you saw this person
in the middle of the town square, and pointed and laughed at them - that's an
_incredibly, stupendously dick thing_ to do. It not only is insulting and
mean, it encourages others to do the same thing.

Real people get hurt. Children commit suicide every year due to online
bullying, and adults too. The emotional scars that don't kill will still hurt
for years. Don't be the biggest douchebag in the world, and keep your comments
to your living room - and to yourself.

------
jere
My favorite part about this thread is people who have abundant energy, high
metabolisms, perfect health, who once gained a couple pounds after being
exceptionally lazy and indulgent, lost it with no effort, and now think
everyone who is overweight is constantly stuffing their face and deserve their
plight.

Protip: you have no fucking clue what this woman's moment to moment life is
like.

------
ce4
Relevant posting from 2 weeks ago about a similar case (anti hipster):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6412708](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6412708)

~~~
kubiiii
I wanted to point that either. In both cases the bullies behaviour changed the
minute they realized it was a photograph of an actual human being who could
feel pain from their comments.

------
lnanek2
I've been fat before. Used to eat a whole box of chocolate kudos bars a day as
a kid. I don't think it's particularly odd to get made fun of for it. I got to
eat the boxes of chocolates after all, it was a trade off. Other people worked
harder and cared more about their health and are welcome to their opinions and
the benefits of their work. Seems to be kind of shirking responsibility to say
no one can criticize you for it. Even if you have health conditions you still
have to put enough calories in your mouth to get that large and that is your
decision. I think she is kind of hurting herself by wasting so much time
issuing take down orders and contacting comment authors. It didn't matter what
they said, but using up your time to fight them, that actually is a big
negative to you, you could be out spending that time enjoying yourself.

------
GeorgeOrr
"Why do you think that's funny" I loved that. A simple way to remind someone
to treat other humans like humans.

Thanks for that idea.

~~~
smoyer
So true ... the fact that she can laugh at herself is a very useful skill but
what I'm interested in is how the mob mentality allows someone to go from
"Fridge Raider" (which I thought was funny ... and I'm no toothpick myself) to
"That heifer should be put down". There's not a shred of humor in that, nor is
there even a shred of humanity in it.

------
jader201
I thought one of the more interesting points, at least in the context of HN,
was that the Facebook users didn't even know she could read her posts.

Not that I feel sorry for them, just that so many people use Facebook _all the
time_ and have no idea how simple things like this really work and who is able
to see their content.

How much is posted on Facebook in the view of the public that wasn't intended
for the public?

------
Cthulhu_
(this comment got a bit long. tl;dr, the internet is full of insensitive
pricks that don't get confronted with their own behaviour)

A large percentage of the internet populace is running on autopilot: browse
hundreds of random images a day for quick fixes of entertainment, and post the
odd impulsive, thoughtless and, most importantly, internet-badassity-enhancing
comment.

It's much more common to be scathing and hurtful on the internet, simply
because there is less of, or none of, a 'society filter' out there. If one
were to stand on a soapbox in public and make the kind of remarks people make
unashamedly and unfilteredly on the internet, they wouldn't be standing there
for long and would in all likelihood get called out on their behavior.

Not (directly) so on the internet. I can identify two major reasons for that:
One, peer groups. Internet douchebags is a major internet peer group, who will
e-high-five each other for remarks outlined in the article. Two: Nobody cares.
Scathing remarks are made by anonymous people all over the internet, so a lot
of people have been desensitised or simply feel powerless, on behalf of not
actually knowing the person making the remarks.

The difference for that last point lies in community. A lot of these image
sharing sites have a loosely-tied, unloyal random userbase, where most
commenters will not or never know or recognise each other from other
'threads'. This in contrast to, say, HN, where people can gain fame and
notoriety over time. In the latter category, where comments and the overall
mood is much less random and much more focussed at a certain audience,
scathing and offensive and plain dumb comments (which is about 99% of youtube
comments, for example) will not only be (anonymously, disconnecedly)
downvoted, but outright confronted, countered, and the people behind them
approached and have their unwanted behaviour pointed out to them.

[faux-psychologist]Freud assigned people's behavior as a result of the id,
ego, and super-ego; on the internet, shielded by anonymity and a high
abstraction and reduction of communication to quickly typed, short messages,
the super-ego has little power in the big, anonymous communities; there is
little to no society that tells people "No, this behavior is unwanted". This
in turn dulls the ego (one's rational mind, conscience, etc), allowing the id
(the impulsive mind that screams LOL FAT PEOPLE KILL UR SELF LOL) to write a
similar blurb onto the internet. Communities like HN have a much stronger
super-ego, and unwanted behavior is put down. When the poster approached the
commenters, she acted as the super-ego, and the commenters suddenly snapped
out of their autopilot, impulsive state of mind, having their conscience
suddenly kick in when they realised there was a living person with real
feelings behind the 2D image of a random woman dressing up as a character with
a different physique.[/faux-psychologist]

~~~
Uberphallus
Disclaimer: I find these pictures hilarious.

Claimer: I _was_ a fatass.

I no longer show any particular respect or pity towards fat people. I've been
fat most of my life, but no more.

It all started when a friend, well into the 400lb ~ 180kg, started losing
weight like magic. Constant, steady weight loss. He was a fat guy in a family
of fat people, the typical case of genetic blamery. I asked how he did it, he
said he just counted calories and never broke the limit.

I did the same. I changed my food habits. It was hard in the sense that I've
been "trained" otherwise; it's evident to me now that my mother transmitted me
her fears of famine in the war. I always had to finish the plate, eat all I
was given, and eat a bit more on my own whenever possible.

And the conclusion the very first day I started the control is that I just ate
too much. Checked the calories, yeah, it's well added up. WTF, it's lunch and
I'm already more than done! After a while I noticed things started expiring
and get moldy since with my new diet couldn't keep up with my grocery list
habits.

I lost weight _mathematically_. Kept doing exercise and bumped proteins not to
lose muscle, and the average caloric deficit approached frighteningly my
weight loss rate following the famous 9kcal/g of fat. Ate 20000kcal less this
month? Weigh in and poof, 2.2kg gone.

From then I started analyzing other people's habits. And fat people just eat
too much, very, very, very few of them are exceptions.

At this point I just don't understand why I should feel pity and display
consideration to fat people while smokers (or meth addicts, or gamblers, or
other sorts of compulsive behavior) are almost the worst thing in the world
after the Third Reich. Saving some distances, it's the same league.

It's just an unhealthy habit, and the only difference is that it can be seen
from outside. It's not a lost limb from an accident, something random that
could happen to anyone and deserves pity instead of mockery. 99% of fat people
just eat too much, they're just choosing to be, play the victim card too often
and lack of education in regards to nutrition just perpetuates this. It's
essentially the same as white trash, you can blame the environment but in the
end it's you making the choice, but I have yet to see as many people defending
juggalos as people defending fat people.

~~~
kyro
Because, you know, sometimes it's more complicated than what you eat, like
when you have, you know, medical conditions like the one stated in, you know,
the article.

But congratulations on your weight loss and newfound abilities to generalize a
condition that endocrinologists and geneticists have been researching for
decades.

~~~
Uberphallus
Because, you know, I already stated that there are exceptions, only they're
rather exceptional than the norm, as in US or Mexico.

Geographically correlated obesity is explained by nutrition culture, not by
geographically selective medical conditions.

~~~
kyro
We were supposed to learn what from your comment?

You lost weight and now you're spewing judgmental advice. Am I now supposed to
look at a fat person with scorn and immediately assume that they're lazy
slobs? Should I suppress feelings of empathy? What is the actual point of what
you're saying?

You spent 99% of your comment talking about your success and how you've gained
insight into the unsatisfactory habits of others, and all of 1% acknowledging
that it may be more complicated. And within that 1% you literally state that
only 1% of fat people are losing to more than a simple mathematical equation.
I know you coders like your elegant algorithms, but life is bit more messy
than that.

~~~
cgh
Are you similarly empathic towards smokers?

~~~
nmullaney
Why wouldn't someone be empathetic towards smokers? They got hooked on an
addictive substance at some point in their life and are now stuck with an
unhealthy compulsion.

~~~
meepmorp
I think the unstated assumption OP is making is that fat people got hooked on
food, and can't be responsible and give up their addiction. And while it may
be hard to do, you only owe your inability to stick with quitting for your
continued problems. Born again skinny people are particularly severe in this
regard, since they've likely overcome their own personal issues with food (for
now, at least) and so see that experience in everyone else. Maybe they made
physiological excuses before, and tend to discount those issues in others;
maybe their own feelings of weakness don't allow them to be especially
empathetic.

And, the analogy to smoking is fatally flawed. Nobody needs cigarettes, but
everyone has to eat.

------
xzcvczx
the thing i find surprising here is that the DMCA (assuming anyway) act is
being used for blatant censorship, aka she wants her photo off the internet
not because of its artistic qualities but because she doesn't like it being on
the internet,

And while the internet can be rude and obnoxious if she is not careful she has
a good chance of doing a streisand by trying to censor the internet using the
DMCA which is the wrong tool for the job

~~~
icebraining
If artistic merits were required for the DMCA to have effect, labels would be
fucked.

~~~
xzcvczx
touche

------
ck2
So you are saying a service designed for the lowest common denominator suffers
from the lowest common denominator abusing it?

Why do people have facebook accounts, seriously?

~~~
TeMPOraL
Because it's an extremely good, extremely efficient communication tool for
keeping in touch with people you know. Much better than everything else there
is so far.

~~~
chez17
I don't have a facebook profile and I keep in touch with people with the
exciting new technologies of email and telephone. Amazing what actually
talking to people does.

~~~
alex_c
[http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-
mention...](http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-mentioning-
he-doesnt-own-a-tel,429/)

------
exo_duz
Rather than use the criticism to put you down and make you depressed. Use it
as a motivation to drive you to achieve what your goals.

Saying that though, if you are happy with yourself the way you are. And you
are healthy. Then why do you care what faceless people on the Internet think
of you?

The Internet is full of hateful, little people who hide behind the facade that
just because they are online they can be whoever they like. I've been through
all this before and I would never let it get me down. Instead I used it to
drive me harder to achieve my goals.

You are beautiful, keep thinking that and don't let these people get you
down!!!

------
joetech
The internet becomes much more tolerable when you learn to tune out the trolls
who find their only happiness in trying to bring down others.

------
dccoolgai
This seems totally related to startups and technology in a concrete way... I
can't imagine where else on the internet I would be able to see a story like
this... We should try to upvote more "human interest" stories like this to
block out the noise of boring stuff like Pythonscript people try to get on the
FP sometimes ... <3HN!!!

------
badman_ting
The only thing I have to contribute is that I've noticed that making fun of
people is often assumed to have a hateful undercurrent that isn't necessarily
there. I mean, the two often go hand in hand, I'm not denying that, but it's
really not necessary to hate someone or have contempt for them in order to
find their appearance humorous. I feel like that assumption is a little bit
too automatic, on both sides.

And if you are chiding others for their cruelty, do you not ever laugh at the
appearance of another? Really, never? We are all human, and it would be good
for each side of this issue to come to understand the other a bit better.

"Why do you think that's funny?" is a good question for someone who laughs at
fat people out of hatred and self-superiority. For someone who is just
laughing, though, there is no answer. The effect of explaining a joke is well-
understood.

------
enscr
I often find that physical problems that have to do with appearance rather
than functionality of a human being are often ridiculed at. The ones making
fun never realize that they are taking a potshot at something that you often
have no control over. Some are sensitive to realize it while others aren't. I
have friends that fall in both categories. Unless you know the problem, you
tend to take it in a light and often mean spirited way. I'd say that you work
towards keeping your spirits high and learn to forgive the ones who are making
fun. Most of them are ignorant, not malicious. I applaud your attitude of
taking the issue head-on. For my case, I've trained myself to forget such
shortcomings with myself and most often I don't realize that they exist.

------
kazagistar
I remember I was in middle school when I first realized that "funniest home
videos" was actually quite distasteful. There were people being hurt; why is
there an entire TV show about laughing at them? The joy of /r/cringe and the
like is simply lost on me now.

------
Ivan_Raikov
fridge raider. That was good

~~~
SeanDav
> _fridge raider. That was good_

I can hear the _whoooosh_ as that article went straight over your head. I
think you need to take a step back and do a little introspection. Also that
type of comment does not belong here on HN News.

~~~
alan_cx
Perhaps you need to take a step back and realise that making a joke does not
mean misunderstanding an issue. I for one certainly found it amusingly ironic
that in an article supposed to be sympathetic to a fat girl had an "Enlarge"
button on the picture. Not to mention that the article it's self in fact
propagates the image even more.

Also, are you really saying humor has no place on HN? I see nothing in the FAQ
about banning humor.

~~~
taybin
The lack of humor on HN is the worst thing about it, IMHO. Of course that sort
of cultural value won't be in the FAQ.

~~~
icebraining
Paraphrasing Steven King, HN accepts humor. It just isn't promiscuous about
the humor it accepts.

------
drjesusphd
I think it's awesome that you're facing this head on, putting yourself out
there even more, just to make people aware of a growing problem. Kudos!

------
kartikkumar
Who really cares what other people think about you, especially strangers that
have no importance in your life? Haters are to be hated, but more than that I
honestly think that life is too short to worry about what some random dumbass
has to say about you. They're quite simply a waste of time and energy.

With that said, feel free to hate on me for this post ... cause I won't care
...

~~~
ben0x539
This kind of abuse affects different people very differently, and over a long
time makes it really, really hard to keep up that "life is too short to worry
about it" attitude. While the OP seems to be dealing well, don't underestimate
how badly that sort of thing can drag you down and eg. sap all creative energy
out of you.

------
djmollusk
Always better to embrace it instead of fighting it or letting it make you feel
bad.

------
shawkinaw
Never read the comments.

------
geldedus
she asked for it :)

------
a3voices
> She reminded me that I was beautiful, and told me I would get through this.
> And then, like any kick-ass heroines, we came up with a plan.

I was hoping the plan would be to lose weight.

~~~
ben0x539
> I was hoping the plan would be to lose weight.

That comment is really not particularly humorous (let alone insightful).
Please try not to drag HN down to the level of discourse that the article is
complaining about.

~~~
a3voices
It would actually have been a better plan though. What's interesting to me is
that she doesn't seem to consider her weight to be the core problem. Her
quality of life will remain lower because of her reluctance to lose it. The
mean comments could have been a wake up call to her, like, "Hey, maybe I
really do need to focus on losing weight."

~~~
ben0x539
But maybe she doesn't really need to focus on losing weight? Maybe as someone
who actually knows something about her own life, she is in a position to
decide that there is other things with a higher return of investment that she
can focus on, especially given her medical situation (which we are almost
entirely ignorant of)?

Meeting arbitrary beauty standards to be perfectly attractive to the worst of
internet commenters isn't and shouldn't be everybody's first and only
priority.

~~~
a3voices
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Preventable_causes_of_deat...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Preventable_causes_of_death.png)

It seems pretty important to me.

~~~
ben0x539
But you're assuming that she is _not_ going to all reasonable lengths to
address the issue, which is completely unfounded! The article even mentions
how she has been adressing it, even though it's none of our business and
completely besides the point, just to preempt your cries "just lose weight
then, HEH". Sequeing into of "well she's still overweight so clearly she isn't
trying hard enough" shows that you're just either trying to be provocative or
don't understand how being overweight works.

------
ye
> _shaming me for having the audacity to go in public dressed as a sexy video
> game character_

I don't think she gets it.

If you're ashamed of how you look, maybe the internet is not the problem.

~~~
ben0x539
Being shamed for something is not the same thing as nor implies a necessity of
being ashamed of something.

~~~
xerophtye
to elaborate on this excellent (though rather confusing) wording, I think you
really don't get it. She didn't mean that they made her ashamed of the act,
but that they were being hostile to her by saying stuff like "how DARE she
dress up as a sexy video game character!! How dare she have FUN!!" get it?

