
2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining? - masonic
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/27/california-school-test-scores-why-are-they-flatlining/
======
swivelmaster
"California isn’t alone in its stagnating scores and in fact compares
favorably with the 12 other states, plus the U.S. Virgin Islands, that
administered the same tests last spring from the Smarter Balanced Assessment
Consortium. Scores decreased in every state, and California’s decline was
about the smallest, retired educational testing specialist Douglas McRae
said."

This is the most important sentence in the article. It points to a problem in
the test itself - California's students didn't just get magically stupider.

Standardized testing isn't a particularly good way to gauge schools' ability
to prepare students for college or for the 'real world.' Unfortunately, our
K-12 public education system is broken and the politics of fixing it are even
more broken, so this is what we get.

~~~
ransom1538
"This is the most important sentence in the article. It points to a problem in
the test itself - California's students didn't just get magically stupider."

Yes. Having gone through public education in California the tests were treated
as a total joke. They had no weight to your grades and there was zero
incentive to do well. Often you wouldn't even get the results. In elementary
school it was common for a teacher to say "When you have finished with this
test, you can go to lunch" \-- well kids would just start filling in bubbles.
These tests were also accompanied by a sheet to see if you have tried drugs or
sex all anonymous. My entire 3rd grade class did heroin.

~~~
labster
Easy solution: make the tests count for a significant chunk of the students'
grades. Or at certain years, require a passing grade on the standardized tests
to be promoted to the next grade.

~~~
tptacek
If we're going to have an enforced one-size fits all national curriculum, we
can do better than the one we reverse engineer from some stupid standardized
test.

~~~
throwanem
Can we?

~~~
tptacek
If we can't, then we have no hope of succeeding with a one-size-fits-all
national curriculum anyways, so either way the point is moot.

------
csa
When are we going to come out and admit that our schools are not providing our
society with what it needs or wants?

For a large chunk of HN, schools served us relatively well.

But for a _huge_ chunk of the US, school is just a waste of time. At best,
it's free childcare for parents. Preparing everyone to college is overkill
(n.b. having a way for everyone who wants to go to college an affordable way
to go to a good school is +++++EV... totally different issues).

Mandatory schooling should be for fundamentals in reading, communication
(speaking and writing), and math -- if you want to get cheeky, teach them
disciplinary approaches to history and science by using examples _that
currently exist in their communities_. Most people don't need literature. Most
people don't need algebra (or higher). Most people don't need history (esp. as
it's currently taught). Most people don't need science (again, esp. not as it
is currently taught). Why are we teaching these things on people who don't
care about and will not use these potential skills? The resource sink is
disgusting.

We could easily educate people to a functional level by 8th grade. Then let
people join the real world if they want. Let them work rather than keep them
in a glorified prison. If they at some point decide they want more schooling,
give them easy access cheaply. This would be much cheaper than all the wasted
high school resources we have now, and many of those resources could be
funneled towards people who actually _want_ to learn at the secondary and
tertiary levels, even if it's not on a classic timeline.

It's time for a rethink of education -- our current system is ridiculously
bad.

~~~
bllguo
I agree with the general sentiment that education needs to be overhauled but I
feel that you undervalue literature and history. Hopefully someone comes along
that is more qualified than I am to speak about this.

There must be better ways to teach algebra and higher math, science, history,
literature, etc. But to say they are useless is bonkers to me. Especially at a
time where menial jobs are at great risk due to outsourcing and automation.
The solution has to be more and better education, not less. I don't know how
you expect people who know basic math, reading, and writing to succeed.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
> Especially at a time where menial jobs are at great risk due to outsourcing
> and automation.

This is what is so frustrating to me. Tons of people on this site say "more
people should be going to college because the lower class is getting screwed,"
but fail to acknowledge that an enormous chunk of the population is mentally
unable to obtain a degree, and that higher degree attainment rates doesn't
help the issue because it devalues the degree and makes it where young people
basically must get a degree to get a good job, forcing an entire generation
into massive amounts of debt before even starting their career.

Instead of expecting the half of the population with IQs lower than 100 to
suddenly get an advanced degree and move to a large city, we need to do
something about the negative effects that globalization and capital
concentration have had on our nation. We need to make it so that quality of
life for our lower class goes up as time goes on, not down.

~~~
bllguo
Right. These people are getting hammered. We have to find a way to let them be
productive at something that isn't simple enough to be done by machines or
laborers in developing countries. College is not feasible for them, but
neither is neutered education.

------
peterwwillis
One of the reasons - probably one of the biggest reasons - for continuously
lower test scores in America is the quality of the care these children
receive.

Over 40% of children in the US are born to unwed mothers, compared to 5% at
the beginning of last century. About 70% of unwed childbirth is by black
mothers, versus just 24% in 1965. The last two peaks of teenage pregnancy were
1991 and 2007 - so the children of teens have more children, whom are now 10
years old, with 26yr old parents, and whose grandparents are about 42yrs, with
great grandparents about 70 years old.

The financial and social strain on such families is intense. It's also
difficult to be the best parent you can be when you yourself are still not an
adult. And it virtually guarantees poverty for these children. There is almost
no reasonable assistance given to the families of these children - assistance
like food, shelter, access to education, daycare, transportation.

Kids are getting left behind not by their school system, but a social system
that has ignored them as part of a lower class of society that we'd rather
starve and struggle than give assistance to.

If you don't believe this, go into a [public] school in Philly, Baltimore, New
York, and ask about the grade level of reading comprehension of the kids, what
their family life is like, and their economic status. You will see a trend in
all three: "poor."

~~~
topmonk
> There is almost no reasonable assistance given to the families of these
> children - assistance like food, shelter, access to education, daycare,
> transportation.

Yes, there is. You are arguing for more welfare, but welfare caused the
problem in the first place:

[http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=16...](http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1672)

~~~
pirocks
Not too say that the website doesn't have anything useful to say, but is has
some very extreme views like , "Muslim efforts to advance the hegemony of
Islamic law in the United States by introducing it stealthily and
incrementally into American society"

[http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=124&t...](http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=124&type=issue)

~~~
peterwwillis
The website in question is produced by a conservative thinktank led by David
Horowitz, who amongst other things, leads a blog called "Jihad Watch". As with
most politically-aligned think tanks, the content is designed to convince
someone of a particular argument or issue - in this case that "the left" is
responsible for the systemic disenfranchisement of African Americans through
welfare, rather than say, systemic racism and the gutting of real social
welfare by conservatives.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz#Allegations_of_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz#Allegations_of_racism)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz#Criticizing_Isl...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz#Criticizing_Islamic_organizations)

(and yes, this is an ad hominem attack, I will reply to the previous commenter
with why the article in question was stupid)

------
andlarry
> But persistently low achievement rates of African-American, Latino, poor,
> English-learner and disabled students, who together make up a majority of
> the state’s public-school students, fuel criticism of the educational status
> quo.

Perhaps repealing the English only teaching requirement via prop 58 last year
had something to do with harming English proficiency in underserved
populations. Prop 227, which established the English only requirement (parents
could opt out) seemed successful.

> "Hispanic test scores on a range of subjects have risen since Proposition
> 227 became law."

[https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_227,_the_%22E...](https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_227,_the_%22English_in_Public_Schools%22_Initiative_\(1998\))

~~~
Dan_Nguyen
>Perhaps repealing the English only teaching requirement via prop 58 last year
had something to do with harming English proficiency in underserved
populations.

It wouldn't have affected any of these test scores. Prop 58 was approved Nov
2016 and took effect July 2017[1], whereas the 2017 tests cited in this
article were taken 2/3 of the way into the school year[2], which puts it in
Spring for a normal school year schedule and months before Prop 58 ever took
effect. Any effects of Prop 58 on testing scores won't be seen until this
school year when students take the tests in early 2018.

[1]
[http://downloads.capta.org/leg/Prop58_Support_FullAnalysis.p...](http://downloads.capta.org/leg/Prop58_Support_FullAnalysis.pdf)

[2][https://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/ai/assess1617testdates.asp](https://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/ai/assess1617testdates.asp)

------
navigator01
It has everything to do with home life and environment. No classroom within
the expected margins of quality can overcome a negative home life that does
not value education and encourage student achievement.

Wealth and cultural/familial values are the major culprits.

~~~
bitxbitxbitcoin
Lack of wealth and lack of cultural/familial values more so than their
overwhelming presence - though some might argue against the cultural part.
When will American culture praise and reward academic acheivement in the way
that some other cultures do?

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
I would argue that cultural influences do play a major role. Asian Americans
on average make nearly $20k/yr more than whites. Almost 20% of billionaires
are Jewish[1]. Those kinds of discrepancies don't come from nowhere, and
absolutely show that upbringing and culture have a massive effect on future
growth and goal attainment.

Now look at popular US culture nowadays. People are told they can be whatever
they want to be, and losers are given participation trophies. Comfort and
inclusion is seen as more important than competition and self-control. Our
culture is changing massively, and it's showing in our test scores.

[1]
[https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-o...](https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-of-
american-billionaires-jewish-
in-2014https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-of-american-
billionaires-jewish-in-2014)

~~~
QAPereo
Education is typically _very_ important in a Jewish household, STEM, medicine,
law, and business are likewise very respected, along with musical talent. I’m
Jewish, and I’d say the cultural norm ranged from supportive of the things I
mentioned, to extremely demanding of them. I’ve noticed similar patterns from
childhood well into adulthood in my Asian friends, whether they’re Indian,
Japanese, Chinese or Korean.

Drive matters. A family with expectations, and generations of educational
aspirations matter, if you’re trying to excel.

------
andrei_says_
Treating learning as a process of moving information into children’s minds and
then checking it’s quality via tests is an old, inefficient and misaligned
with what we know about learning.

It is a broken approach which makes sense in the context of training factory
workers while providing childcare for their worker parents. Works so-so for
the bean counters at the tremendous cost of crushing ebmveryone else.

It is abysmal in the face of the pace at which the workforce moves and doesn’t
even come close to what today’s kids actually need.

Tests are just one of the symptoms.

~~~
Pigo
What would be a new, efficient approach?

~~~
andrei_says_
Efficient from the standpoint of students?

I’d recommend looking into democratic schools. Focusing on empowering learning
to learn, self determination, intrinsic motivation, leadership, public
speaking, project-based learning.

------
gjem97
Q: Why are they flatlining? A: Random variation.

But seriously, you shouldn't be allowed to announce a trend without giving
some measure of historical volatility. Show me that this "flatline" is
actually a major deviation from expected results (based on historical data).

Even a chart would demonstrate this visually. This is clearly just axe-
grinding.

------
firefoxd
The kids go to school to get homework from professionals trained in the art of
teaching then the unqualified parent is the one that has to help the child do
these homeworks. Now what is recommended is to sign up for the after school
program where for a fee someone can help them with their homework.

How about they teach and do the work during school hours?

~~~
zanny
A large portion of students do not get parental help with homework. Their
parents aren't around, or don't actively participate in their lives. And that
certainly means they won't pay for after school tutoring. Those are the kids
most in need of systemic reform, not those who have parents that value
education, where their only problem is just the schools themselves sucking.
They will almost always succeed as long as their parents support them (and
given enough income more likely than not move them into charter school or some
other option).

------
ProfessorLayton
It’s not too surprising considering the rising inequality in CA.

Wealth is the largest predictor of educational attainment.

[https://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/reardon%20whit...](https://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/reardon%20whither%20opportunity%20-%20chapter%205.pdf)

~~~
dogruck
Yes, but wealth is also correlated with aptitude.

I'm not saying our system is perfect. Plenty of rich bozos.

On the other hand, in a perfect system, to me, it seems that the highest
achievers would tend to both: 1. Succeed in school and 2. Acquire wealth.

~~~
tptacek
We're referring in this case to the wealth of parents, not of students.
Students have very little control over which parents they're assigned.

~~~
dogruck
Most students have the combined genetic material of their parents. Genetics
are a key influence on aptitude.

To be transparent, I personally benefited from public schools, and my parents
were not wealthy (but they were graduates of public colleges).

I'm not arguing that only wealthy people should have access to quality
education. I'm just saying that it's a weak argument to point out that success
in school is linked with wealth.

~~~
maskedSlacker
>I'm just saying that it's a weak argument to point out that success in school
is linked with wealth.

Would you like to say that the Earth is flat, disease is caused by an
imbalance of humors, and Adam and Eve tamed dinosaurs for use in ancient
rodeos while you're at it?

Because those would have more chance of being correct than what you're saying.
Socioeconomic security correlates more strongly to educational outcomes than
ANY other variable, including IQ.

~~~
losvedir
This seems like kind of a low effort comment. Are you disputing any of these
claims:

    
    
        * IQ or other measures of aptitude contribute to success in school
        * IQ/aptitude are heritable
        * IQ/aptitude contribute to success in life
    

Because those all seem sort of reasonable to me, and would explain the top
comment of "wealth is the largest predictor of educational attainment",
without some sort of nefarious inequality good school / bad school thing going
on. I think that's what GP was getting at.

I think you're arguing about _magnitude_ of effect? That, while that's true,
socioeconomic status effects educational attainment far more than natural
aptitude? That also seems plausible to me, although not guaranteed to be
correct. Do you have any sources on the relative effects of each contribution?
I'd be curious to see.

~~~
tptacek
SES and IQ are _not orthogonal_. In the limited studies we have, SES
interventions generate durable IQ gains, gains substantially larger than the
supposed gap between races. The grandparent comment is "not even wrong".

~~~
losvedir
> interventions generate durable IQ gains

Oh, really? That's awesome. I was under the impression this wasn't possible.
Do you have any resources on what the interventions were? I'm interested from
a selfish parental perspective...

~~~
tptacek
Start here and follow links:

[https://www.vox.com/the-big-
idea/2017/5/18/15655638/charles-...](https://www.vox.com/the-big-
idea/2017/5/18/15655638/charles-murray-race-iq-sam-harris-science-free-speech)

(This only _looks_ like a Vox article; it's actually an open letter from
authoritative researchers Vox happens to be publishing.)

~~~
dogruck
I read the Vox piece, and I don't find it logical. Do you think a fair summary
is "nature has a larger impact on IQ than nurture?"

Note the article does concede that genetics impact IQ.

Somewhat related: I find it amusing when parents talk at length about how
similar their children are to themselves and to past relatives -- and then
pivot to essentially argue that every individual has equal capabilities.

~~~
tptacek
You read a piece by Eric Turkheimer and Richard Nisbett and "didn't find it
logical"?

------
toast0
I would really like to see results from testing that indicated progression.
Since they test students in third through eighth grades and 11th grade, I
think it would be more interesting to know of the students who scored in some
range in 3rd grade last year, how did they do in 4th grade this year, and so
on. You can sort of infer by looking at reports by grade level over time, but
a lot of students don't stay at the same school, so it's hard to tell.

For students who test below proficient in one year, it's not necessarily
reasonable to expect one year of schooling to enable them to test proficient
in the next, even if the instruction is amazing. If the majority of the
students are coming in unprepared, the overall proficiency % is going to be
low, and it doesn't reflect on the quality if the school.

------
kolbe
Holy shitballs. This flatline is barely meaningful, and the number of HN
members who want to treat this as an opportunity to soapbox some tangential
agenda is nuts.

~~~
bllguo
We already know that there's a problem with education - there are many, many
signs. US citizens being manipulated by false information, open bigotry,
declining livelihoods of the lower economic class, political unrest and
populism, educational metrics being substantially lower than other countries
for years, etc.

Whether this particular article is meaningful doesn't matter too much imo. It
raises the issue. Plenty of discussion here doesn't focus on the supposed
trend.

~~~
kolbe
Firstly, let's just give you the benefit of the doubt that soapboxing about
cliche, populist, non-tech/non-business topics is a good use of Hacker News.
It's not, but I'll pretend for the sake of this conversation.

We have something of a standard here for how statements need to be supported,
and "we already know" and "there are many many signs" falls far short of those
standards, and is eerily reminiscent of Donald Trump's instead.

"US citizens being manipulated by false information." How is this different
from any other time in history? Are we better? Are we worse? Is it even
relevant? It's nearly tautological that it has happened, but how much does it
happen? Can an educational system do anything about it? Is it worth it?

"open bigotry." Ok. Welcome to the world. If this is a sign of a declining
educational system, then virtually no place anywhere in the history of the
world has had a good educational system.

"declining livelihoods of the lower economic class." Really? Support this. And
give evidence that "a problem with education" (again, supposedly fixable
problem) is at least one of the causes.

"political unrest and populism." Do I even need to at this point?

"educational metrics being substantially lower than other countries for
years." Oh my god, finally something that is commonly understood enough to
warrant no citation. And something that is probably commonly understood to be
linked to "a problem with education." But now, what are you adding with it?

So, you've failed to even make a valid argument with four of your points by
not bothering to support them, and the fifth is so commonly known and
pointless to reiterate that there is no reason to include it here. So, why, in
your mind, does this conversation belong here when we could be talking about
all the cool, innovative, and interesting topics that HN was designed to
support?

------
dogruck
In my eyes, standardized tests are bad because they will always shine a bright
light on differences between groups.

We don't like to admit it these days, but humans are not identical. We can
accept some basic differences, such as skin tone. We get extremely
uncomfortable extending that notion to cognitive skills. To be clear, I'm not
singling out any group -- I'm not linking skin tone to cognitive skill in any
way.

So, we bring in standardized tests to level the playing field. At first, those
tests are deeply flawed and filled with bias, making them especially harmful.

Then, we iterate, and remove those testing flaws. And we trick ourselves into
thinking that will solve the problem.

But, suppose we arrive at the _perfectly fair test._ Suppose the test is
highly predictive of, say, success at a 4 year college.

Now, what do you do if that test habitually ranks some group lower than other
groups? To me, it feels like we are right back at square one.

Personally, I would prefer to focus our energy on helping each other out. If
one person, or group, is falling behind, you find a way to help, and also to
integrate each group into the whole.

I know I'm oversimplifying -- I just think standardized testing is a fruitless
exercise.

~~~
tristor
So, eliminate competition because it's unfair? That does not to me seem like a
recipe for success on a global scale. If anything, the thing which has made
the culture in the US uniquely attractive to so many people from all over the
world is the fact that we revel in competition in a way most other societies
do not. We love to compete, and are unabashed about keeping score.

Let's assume for a moment that we focus exclusively on helping everyone get
ahead and eliminate standardized testing. What happens when people get out in
the real world and get the shock they never had in school that they don't
quite measure up? To prevent that would require a complete restructuring of
society, it'd look wildly different. Among other things it wouldn't be
possible with a capitalist economy by which the "best" products in the market
are rewarded financially and competition is the basis of business.

Is that really the world you want to live in?

~~~
NegatioN
Even if they get a greater shock when entering "the real world", they would
still be better prepared for it if they were more competent coming out of
school. It's a red herring to say that we would need to further restructure
society to get any benefit from helping youth better overcome the challenges
of school.

I'd say that probably depends on what you expect from them. But I don't think
it's unfair to say that probably more students are left behind because of
teaching/learning disabilities than there are people who simply will never be
able to cope with the subjects at hand (because of cognitive limitations).

------
DoodleBuggy
Standardized testing encourages teaching how to take standardized tests, why
does anyone think that's a good idea?

------
FabHK
Two notes:

1\. I don't see anything about the statistical significance, or the natural
fluctuation of the results, i.e. the standard error. Presumably lots of
students are measured, and you could argue that your standard error
(proportional to 1/sqrt(N)) is tiny, but then, the questions are different
every year, so you have some date-specific (not student-specific) error. In
other words, just looking at previous years, how much do results vary? And is
this year's flatline maybe just a result of measurement error? (In other
words: Q: "Why are they flatlining?" A: No reason.)

EDIT to add: well, there is one sentence in the article:

> “not a significant change,” spokeswoman Amber Farinha wrote in an email

2\. It's a

> computer adaptive test — meaning as the test progresses, questions become
> harder or easier depending on the student’s answers

These have problems, in my view. I had a Spanish girl friend that studied for
the GRE with me. The verbal section is largely a long vocabulary test, so we
studied quite a bit (from the entertaining Princeton Review _Word Smart_
book). Now, often she would know the "complicated" word being explained, as it
had Latin roots and was the same in Spanish. However, she wouldn't know the
"easy" explanation. (For example, "to lament" (ah, easy, like
"lamentablemente, lamentar") was explained as "to mourn" (what?), "arboreal"
is "arbóreo" (well, "tree dweller" is easy, too, but you get the idea).)

Bottom line: we did several (actual old) practice exams, timed, and she would
consistently score in a certain percentile range (with some variation, of
course). Those were good old-fashioned paper tests, though.

However, when she did the actual (adaptive) GRE, she scored much worse than in
the practice exams, several standard deviations away. (And before you blame it
on nervousness due to real test conditions, note that there was a significant
drop only in the verbal part, not analytic or quantitative.)

This appears to me a problem with the testing methodology: when she initially
got something wrong, the CAT would give her "easier" questions, preponderantly
words with Germanic roots, which she would also get wrong. The "hard"
questions involving words with Latin roots, that she'd probably have gotten
right, were never displayed to her.

She got into a good school anyway, so it didn't really matter. But in my view,
the claim that the CAT is just as good as the longer paper based test is
predicated on assuming that test subjects come from the same population. I
really wonder whether speakers of Romance languages where systematically
disadvantaged by the switch from paper to CAT, and whether ETS (the producer
of GRE) did any systematic study on that.

(Note that it is conceivable that some Hispanophones got questions right at
the beginning, and then got "harder" questions easier for them, thus getting
better results than in the paper based test. If that is the case, it's
conceivable that the average scores of both the Anglo- and Hispanophone group
lines up with the non-adaptive and adaptive test, but Hispanophones suddenly
show a much bigger variance in the adaptive test. Questions questions.)

------
option
These don’t include private schools, right?

~~~
swivelmaster
There's some passing information about charter schools in the article.

~~~
adpirz
Heads up that many charter schools are public. Rocketship (mentioned in the
article) is a network of public charter schools that serves primarily low
income students, and that's true of many charter schools in the state and
across the country.

~~~
ThomPete
Success Academy is public, my son is there they are in the absolute top when
it comes to math score.

SA was started in Harlem and specialize in taking kids out of bad environments
(their homes) and influence them to make an effort.

It's a pretty hardcore school (7.45am - 4.0pm ish) but it definitely works
well.

~~~
ed312
7:45 to 4 is hardcore? I thought that was normal?! What are non-hardcore
school hours?

~~~
ThomPete
8.20 to 2-3ish then homework and sometimes they have soccer practice, chess,
art etc. So they have long days in school.

------
curiousgal
Not being good at Math is not that big of deal but not being proficient at
your own native language seems inexcusable.

~~~
MichaelGG
Is English the native language for most of California?

~~~
labster
Yes. Most of the hispanics whose families arrived in California before the
English speakers arrived have long since become native English speakers. As
with most second-generation or later immigrants.

Though I have heard tales of Californians being native speakers of Lisp, this
is probably just a rumor.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Most of the hispanics whose families arrived in California before the
> English speakers arrived have long since become native English speakers.

That's true of most Californios, sure, but they are, by far, a minority of
California Hispanics, who are mostly from families that immigrated much more
recently.

~~~
labster
If you had read my comment past the first sentence, you would see that the
second addressed your the larger population too.

------
dragonwriter
HN title is editorialized inappropriately from source (and focus shifted to
absolute results rather than trends and discussion of the reasons behind the
trends, which include questions about the validity of the tests.) The source
title is “2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?”

~~~
swivelmaster
Agree that the title should be edited.

Still, the question of "why are the schools in and around Silicon Valley doing
so poorly?" is worth discussing. We [residents of supposedly the most
innovative region on the planet] should be able to solve these problems, and
yet we either are unable to or haven't tried very hard.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Still, the question of "why are the schools in and around Silicon Valley
> doing so poorly?" is worth discussing.

It probably is but California is, by population or number of schools, mostly
“in and around Los Angeles”, not “in and around Silicon Valley.”

~~~
swivelmaster
The data that the article highlights is from the Bay Area, though.

~~~
dragonwriter
It picks numbers from four Bay Area counties, but not really the four anyone
would pick if they were concerned with “in and around Silicon Valley”
(particularly, Contra Costa is included but not San Francisco.)

------
cobookman
What is California's score if you get remove all the test scores of illegal
immigrants. I'm sure that they drastically drop the scores.

Being an ESL student would make school significantly harder. And would also
explain he low English skills. And given that most illegals are manual labor
and not high skilled jobs, the kids don't have parents who can help their kids
with maths.

~~~
sctb
We can do without this kind of inflammatory conjecture on Hacker News. The bar
for civility and substantiveness goes up when approaching controversial
issues. It's not about whichever position you take—it's about being thoughtful
enough to afford a reasonable follow-up discussion.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
SQL2219
Get the computers out of the classroom.

~~~
carlisle_
This is the kind of comment that truly derails education. It's reactionary and
doesn't have a real objective.

~~~
chroem-
The wealthiest members of our society are on one hand sending their children
to expensive private schools, specifically to avoid exposing them to computers
in the classroom, while on the other hand lobbying for increased usage of
computing in public education to support their businesses. This is a
completely valid concern, and you are dismissing it without reason.

~~~
benchaney
This is a completely insane assertion. Private schools have computers in the
classroom more frequently to private schools. I challenge you to find any
evidence of anyone choosing a private schools because there aren't computers
in the classroom.

