
Without Siri, the iPhone reminder app stinks - apress
http://gravitationalpull.net/wp/?p=1827
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RandallBrown
I hate todo list apps that make me enter a bunch of bullshit just to make a
task. I actually really like how easy it is to create a task in the reminders
app. I often don't need an actual reminder, I just want a list.

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saturdaysaint
This has been a problem with every mobile to-do list app ever, even best-in-
breed stuff like Orchestra and 2Do. There are just too many things that you
reasonably expect to do with a to-do - mark it off, see all of your completed
tasks, delete, change the date, change the alarm, change the priority...

These things seem much easier to pull off in a full web browser, so that all
of the controls are revealed all the time.

I think the reason that so many of these to-do list apps exist is because the
workflow seems like it would be easy to nail, but it isn't. Voice is quite
possibly the best solution.

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mason55
The worst is that even though you set the date & time for a reminder and hit
"Done" you still haven't saved it; you have to hit "Done" a second time.

I learned that when I missed a few reminders because I didn't hit save a
second time.

~~~
raimondious
I was expecting to read this when I clicked on the article because that's the
problem I have with Reminders. I've never had an issue with the stuff they are
talking about – I don't count the taps and slides because they're intuitive.

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ianstormtaylor
Setting location reminders requires that the address be in your Contacts for
someone. So forget just adding reminders for when you need to go to the store,
or the pharmacy, or whatever.

Deleting reminders is no easy task either since they used swipe right to
change lists instead of the usual pull up a delete button.

Yup, the app is horrible.

~~~
masklinn
> Setting location reminders requires that the address be in your Contacts for
> someone. So forget just adding reminders for when you need to go to the
> store, or the pharmacy, or whatever.

It's perfectly possible to add companies (and places, aliased to companies) to
your address book. So it works, but you have to tell it what your pharmacy is
beforehand.

~~~
shawnc
And honestly to expect it to know you're at a pharmacy or a store, is silly.
This is very early in the game and you're already expecting it to perform as
if it'd been in the market for years.

~~~
masklinn
As with TFA, I think ianstormtaylor was talking about doing so "manually"
instead of via Siri: when trying to add a location to a task/reminder,
Reminders does not provide some sort of text field for the address but asks
you to pick a contact from your address book (it also gives you "fast access"
to your current location and your home, but that's it).

Worse, I think: it does not let you create a contact from the spot either so
you have to get out of Reminders, open the phone/contacts app, create a new
contact, then go back to reminders and select the contact you just created.
_That_ is painful.

~~~
ianstormtaylor
Yup, exactly. And being forced to goto Contacts just makes the whole thing
hell.

It could have easily been implemented by entering a location into a textfield
accompanied by a map, the exact same way you enter "places" everywhere else on
the device and the web.

~~~
shawnc
Ok. Both great points. And very true.

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nvk
That's why i created a supper simple app to remind me of stuff, ended up
selling a few hundred thousand, till Apple copied our name.

<http://itunes.apple.com/app/reminders/id389611206>

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runjake
So does the calendar app, and perhaps the texting app. I think that's the
whole reason Siri came along, to help alleviate the shortcomings of the
smartphone interface.

~~~
masklinn
Calendar I'd give you, Apple has never been very good at those (hell, iCal
became worse from Snow Leopard to Lion), but messages? What are your issues
with it?

~~~
runjake
The screen is small, and it's hard to type out a message while you're walking
along or in a car. Granted, it's more an issue of form factor rather than a
shortcoming of Apple's, but again, this is the gap that Siri is designed to
close, and the whole basis for their Siri ads.

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kmfrk
The worst part of the app is that "Home" is not the default location reminder;
"Current Location" is.

I don't know if I am in the minority, but I think there is a benefit the the
American GDP, if Apple changed the default location to "Home", instead of
forcing everyone to waste their time setting it themselves.

~~~
masklinn
FWIW, the default location behavior is coherent with the default trigger:
"when I leave".

I don't think I'd have more use for those defaults if they were "home" and
"when I arrive".

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epaga
At least on ipad, you can switch the view from List to Date-based. You then
have a scrollable calendar view on the left. When you tap a day, you can then
type in a reminder on the right and it automatically gets added to remind you
that day at 9am. Pretty nice, albeit a bit "hidden".

~~~
masklinn
> At least on ipad, you can switch the view from List to Date-based.

You can do that on iPhone as well.

> You then have a scrollable calendar view on the left.

Not that, but there is a "Calendar" button in the top left (lets you configure
your lists in list-based view). There is also a list of the next 11 days at
the bottom of the screen for quick access.

> When you tap a day, you can then type in a reminder on the right and it
> automatically gets added to remind you that day at 9am.

iPhone version behaves exactly the same.

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w0utert
I must have a very special iPhone that comes with a very special version of
the reminders application, because half of the 10 steps he lists are simply
not necessary, and also, the application seems respond perfectly fine to my
inputs.

Let me see: 1) Tap + button 2) Type reminder text, hit enter, reminder is
added to the list 3) With the keyboard still up, tap the reminder text 4) Tap
'remind me' 5) Tap 'on a day', then tap the date select box that appears and
select the time and date 6) Done

Hardly rocket science, and I can't really imagine how you would do this with
less user input. I call BS on this article.

~~~
smackfu
Your steps are the same as his, you just numbered them differently. And there
really is a second 7) Done after the 6) Done.

The main inefficiency is that Remind Me is a sub-screen, even though it only
has two options (On a Day and At a Location). Those could have been added to
the main Details screen and then you would save at least two taps.

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cmelbye
I'm convinced that Apple intentionally made the Reminders app cumbersome to
make Siri's interface to create reminders more attractive. Apple simply knows
too much about good design to have made an app this awkward without it being
intentional.

~~~
illumin8
The optimist inside me hopes that what you say is true. The pessimist inside
of me thinks that perhaps an app would never have been released in this sorry
state under Steve's watch...

~~~
masklinn
All of iOS5 was designed "under Steve's watch"...

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dpcan
What an exaggeration. Seriously, was it THIS hard for him to figure out? I
found it really easy. I've got all my Christmas lists in it too. I'm on 3GS -
no Siri

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falling
While I agree the app's UX is absolutely sub-par, the guy could skip steps 4-7
and just tap on Remind Me, as the screen looks exactly the same at step 4 as
it does at step 8 and as you can do on every cell with a right pointing arrow.

I don't like this trend where everybody is now a UX expert and actively looks
for subtle defects everywhere to prove they are smart. Same goes for praising
the designers.

Sometimes little details are just little details.

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owenmarshall
I think this is just poor screenshot placement on his part. The only displayed
information is the text you just typed in. There isn't a time/date below.
There is no remind me.

At least, that's how it works on my 3GS. Using reminders with no Siri has been
driving me _insane_ as well.

~~~
masklinn
> At least, that's how it works on my 3GS.

Definitely like that on a 4S as well.

> Using reminders with no Siri has been driving me insane as well.

I don't know, I guess it depends what you use it for: I use it mostly as a
todo and to jot things I'll have to do at some point, so the basic UI works
_really well_.

In fact, Siri frustrates the fuck out of me because it _absolutely completely
definitely_ wants a date or a place and I have _not_ fond out how to tell it
to add "butter" on a list of stuff to buy without it wanting me to say where
or when I'm going to buy the damn dairy.

edit: having written that, I think that's the split in Reminders and the
reason why OP does not like it: Reminders is both a reminder and a todos app,
the reminders part works like a secretary/assistant (hence Siri mandating a
time or a geofence and not allowing for putting it into a specific list) and
the todos works as a regular todo (hence manual creation of a task jumping
immediately to creating a new one and multiple, easy-to-setup and easy-to-
switch-between lists).

The issue happens when trying to use reminders-Reminders manually (OP's issue)
and todos-Reminders as a secretary (mine)

In fact, this seems supported by geofencing handling: it only "knows"
addresses from contacts, so the machine has to understand what you're
referencing for a reminder (just as your secretary would need to I guess)

~~~
joelhooks
When she asks "when" say "never" and it skips the date.

~~~
dmd
Or say "remember to" instead of "remind me to". (Double-replying to make sure
you see this as well.)

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nirvana
One of my apps in the appstore is a reminders type app called Next Thing. Its
designed for a slightly different purpose-- its meant to be left open next to
your computer and keep you focused on one task at a time. You can see it here:
<http://pocketronic.com/>

With the keyboard up on the iPhone or iPod touch, there's not a lot of space
for controls in the navigation bar. You often need a cancel button and a save
button, and since the title traditionally goes in the middle, there are no
more button spots on the bar.

To solve this, we put the button in the view. Our view is of an index card
given the nature of our app, and on it is a date field. But its a bit subtle,
you can see it here: (not sure if this URL is stable or not.)
[http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/055/Purple/04/e5/da/mzl.afnj...](http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/055/Purple/04/e5/da/mzl.afnjusdl.320x480-75.jpg)

However, since customers might not figure out that the date field can be
tapped on to bring up the date picker, we also put a calendar button in the
middle of the Navigation Bar.

We did this by replacing the title with a custom view, in which we put the
button. This is probably what Apple should do.

FWIW, the hardest and most successful part of this app, in my thinking, is the
date picker. You can see a screenshot of it here:
[http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/015/Purple/a3/6d/de/mzl.mkfr...](http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/015/Purple/a3/6d/de/mzl.mkfrataa.320x480-75.jpg)

We haven't added iCloud to it yet because we expected reminders, being built
into the OS would kill sales. But that hasn't happened, even with the
advantage of being integrated into Siri. So, we'll be adding iCloud soon as I
can get some spare time.

