

Luna delivers your packages when you're home for the night  - joshclemence
http://www.useluna.com

======
untog
I know I'll just sound like another grumpy Android user here, but why launch
with an iPhone app only? Why wouldn't you start off with e-mail and a mobile-
responsive web site? I can't imagine what functionality a native Luna app
could provide that couldn't be done over the web.

I know that being in the App Store is a status symbol and so on, but most of
my online shopping is still done on the web, and I sit in front of a computer
at work - so most of the time I want to interact with Luna I'll probably be
wanting a desktop experience.

I'm in NYC, so I can't use the service right now anyway. But if it launches
here I'd be an absolute sucker for it, except that I won't be able to use it.

~~~
alwillis
Perhaps it's because as a group, iPhone users are more lucrative than Android
users, for example: Apple's iOS brings developers 5x more revenue per download
than Android [http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/27/apples-ios-
brings-...](http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/27/apples-ios-brings-
developers-5x-more-revenue-per-download-than-android)

~~~
untog
Why make it an either/or argument? I didn't suggest making an Android app. A
mobile-responsive web site would work great for both iPhone an Android. And
desktop.

That article doesn't really apply here - it's discussing in-app advertising,
app purchase fees and in-app purchases. I hope for Luna's sake that they
aren't going to charge that $6.99 delivery charge as an in-app purchase,
because they'll lose 30% instantly.

~~~
matthewbadeau
Here are a few reasons why they probably chose to write an iOS app:

-Apple is known for rejecting apps that mimic the functionality of the website (even the mobile version)

-The lead developer is probably more comfortable using Obj-C than web technologies

-The business is designed specifically for mobile users. Services like Luna already exist; they're trying to tap into a different demographic

-As such, iOS development is cheaper than _both_ iOS and Android

~~~
untog
_Apple is known for rejecting apps that mimic the functionality of the website
(even the mobile version)_

"We should make an app because if we don't Apple might reject the app we
didn't make"?

 _The lead developer is probably more comfortable using Obj-C than web
technologies_

That is a terrible, awful, no good reason to restrict your target market. If a
web site is worth making then it's worth making. Any lead developer worth
giving even 1% of equity should be able to adapt to that. If you can do
Objective C you can do the web.

 _The business is designed specifically for mobile users_

If it's iOS only then the business is designed for a specific subset of mobile
users. That's fine, but let's be clear. A responsive web site is also
'designed for mobile users'.

~~~
sneak
You asked for the reasons. He gave you legitimate reasons.

Don't complain now that you don't like them.

~~~
untog
"the lead developer doesn't know the web" is in no way a legitimate reason.

(and I didn't ask for reasons at any point but hey whatever)

------
ryguytilidie
I don't mean to be a downer, but stuff like this bums me out. There are so few
people working on important things yet half the town is working on delivering
food and packages to tech workers who can afford what is genuinely a pretty
insane price to pay for these services. I know that this is a pretty awesome
convenience, but its just so meh. This is what we're doing with all these
resources? Building online delivery service number 45248923942?

~~~
king_magic
I don't think it's particularly "meh". I live in NYC, in a building without a
doorman. Because of that, "package delivery" is not in my vocabulary (well,
Amazon Locker has helped a bit with that), and therefore I spend less money
online because it doesn't make sense to ship them to my apartment.

Would I pay $6.99 for it? Probably not. But is it "meh"? No, I think it solves
an actual problem, possibly in enough of a way to build a sustainable
business.

~~~
avn2109
Yeah, in NYC this is a major pain point. If I am not home to receive a
package, I have to pick it up at the local post office, which has the
following properties:

0) Often loses packages (~25% of the time)

1) Does not re-attempt delivery under any circumstances

2) Is unbelievably crowded by customers who are enraged by 3)

3) Staffed by people who do not care about their jobs at all

4) Has a minimum wait of 30 minutes to get your package

Is 30 minutes of my time plus transit to and fro worth more than seven bucks?
Probably yes.

~~~
Amadou
You left out the biggest problem with the Post Office - it is often closed
when you have the free time to go there.

I've been using private mailbox services for nearly 2 decades now and they
have it all over the USPS PO. 24-hour package pickup. They throw away junkmail
for you. They will text you when you have a package. They can accept shipments
from any carrier - USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc.

They will forward mail in batches to another address, say you moved out of
state but still want your old address to keep working for another 6 months. If
you file a change-of-address form with the USPS they sell that info to anybody
with a couple of dollars (like your college alumni association and any other
charity you ever donated to). Some will even open your mail for you, scan it
and email it to you.

Plus, the address looks like an apartment but it is not your home address - so
telling someone where to mail you doesn't also tell them where you live.

------
RaphiePS
Awesome! I think the landing page could do a slightly better job at explaining
the problem Luna solves.

"Delivering your packages when you're home for the night" sounds nice, but why
would I want my packages delivered at night?

I looked at the blog and it perfectly explained the problem: "How many times
have you anxiously awaited a package only to come home and find that dreaded
little slip hanging from your front door?"

Why not put that on the landing page?

~~~
kine
Thanks for the feedback, Raphie

~~~
masukomi
I'd also note that it saves you from those dreaded days when a new iPhone or
similarly expensive device is going to be left sitting on your doorstep while
you're at work...

~~~
cylinder
UPS/Fedex take all the risk when they do that. The driver is taking the chance
in order to clear his truck. Unless you authorize it with a signed note, they
should not do that. They don't do it in SF or NYC since your doorstep is the
street.

~~~
elliottcarlson
Sadly, I've had plenty of items left at my doorstep even when a signature was
required. (in NY)

~~~
jessejkaplan
We've heard (and experienced) way too many horror stories of packages stolen
off NYC doorsteps. Check out Parcel:
[http://fromparcel.com](http://fromparcel.com).

------
roberthahn
Now this business is a breath of fresh air. No "social". No "you are the
product, not the customer". No "ads as a business model". In fact, I see a
clear business model. And having the price on the site? On the front page?
holy cow that's awesome.

A wise businessman I know used to say "Think like a customer, always
anticipate, and have fun!" Take that to heart and you'll do just fine. Good on
you for getting this far, and best of luck for the future!

------
jawns
One thing that jumped out at me in the FAQ:

You tell Luna when you'll be home, and the delivery will happen between that
time and midnight.

I'm sure there are a ton of folks who wouldn't mind a midnight delivery -- I
used to be one of them -- but there are probably a fair amount who would like
to get a package at 7 p.m. but would definitely not like to get a package at
12 a.m.

Perhaps as Luna expands, it might consider shifting to a model that allows a
smaller time window for the folks who get home earlier. For instance, it might
use a two-hour window, so people who get home at 7 will receive their delivery
by 9 and people who get home at 10 will receive their delivery by midnight.

------
sdoowpilihp
I wonder why the big delivery companies (UPS, FedEx) have not bothered with a
service like this (I am aware that you can schedule delivery windows and the
like, but we can assume that no current delivery company offers this exact,
concierge like service). I can only come up with 2 possible points that would
render offering this service not worth their time.

First, On initial glance, this appears to be a niche luxury service that skews
towards a relatively young demographic. That user base may just be too small
to make it worth the big delivery companies time. Also, This business model
probably only works in a metro area (I can't imagine the price points needed
to make this company viable Batavia Ohio being very palatable to the average
consumer).

There may also be other concerns, but these are the ones that I would first
worry about as an investor. Either way, it will be interesting to see how this
pans out. It really is a solution to one of those problem that in retrospect,
was so damn obvious.

~~~
gibybo
Out of curiosity, why does this skew towards a young demographic? Wouldn't it
be anyone working during the day? Say, ages 22-55?

~~~
roc
The older you are, the more likely that you have a spouse or child who can
receive said packages, or a suburban home, where leaving a package on a porch
isn't (as large) a risk, etc.

------
potatolicious
Simple and a life saver. I'll be signing up as soon as this comes to NYC.

I get most things shipped to the office to avoid sitting around at home, but
sometimes you get an item that's just too big - those items also tend to be
more expensive, making the $6.99 thing more palatable. I hope their numbers
account for this effect (i.e., disproportionately large packages).

Dealing with USPS pickup slips is the sort of pain I wouldn't wish on my worst
enemy.

~~~
untog
Amazon Lockers have saved me numerous times. So very convenient, and I hope to
see them expand a lot more than they already have.

~~~
alwillis
Are there delievery lockers (Amazon or others) in the Boston area? I've looked
and can't seem to find anything. Seems like this would be a natural here.

------
primitivesuave
I'd just like to point out to all the downers out there: the pricing on this
service is easily justified if you compare it to the cost of having to drive
all the way to a Fedex facility, wait in line behind other similarly
inconvenienced human beings, and drive all the way back. Even if you work for
minimum wage, the cost of gas plus the value of your time far exceeds the $7
delivery fee.

I'm pretty excited to try this out!

~~~
kine
Please do! I look forward to it!

------
mml
Seems a bit pricey for me. I think the future is Amazon's storage drop lockers
in every Super America (insert your regional chain here). Works for we city
dwellers (there's one every 3 blocks), and even suburbanites.

There's no way Luna will work for those many millions are trapped in the
suburbs (though of course, that's not a prerequisite for success either). That
being said, i'd definitely use this service in Minneapolis proper.

~~~
jacalata
It will combine perfectly with drones. One of the things I think is going to
be really hard for drone delivery is the last ten feet - once there's a drone
outside my locked apartment building, what's it going to do? Knock and hope
the manager is there to let it in? Leave my package on the city street? (fuck
no). But combine it with this, delivery at a reasonable hour when I can be
home to receive it, and it's perfect.

------
doorty
I like the idea. Though the $6.99/package is more than I'm wiling to spend. I
order most of my stuff online and packages delivered to my apartment during
the day will be stolen. I currently have to get all my packages delivered to
work, but for some people that may not be an option.

~~~
kine
Work is still a pain in the ass. It sits at your desk or awkwardly in your bag
as you make small talk at events after work. We understand that we're not for
every one of your deliveries

------
necubi
This is great. Online shopping is so much less convenient because I can't have
packages delivered to my apartment. Instead I must ship packages to my office,
and either muscle them on MUNI or get a cab (which costs more than $7).

~~~
kine
Thanks! Give it a try!

------
chockablock
Is there any way for you to act as a proxy for users, and pick up their
packages from the will-call window at the local UPS warehouse for same-night
redelivery? It would be an easier sell at $7+ if you can save your customers a
drive across town and a wait in the UPS line. Folks also wouldn't have to plan
ahead to delivery to Luna.

Ideal user interaction would be: open the Luna app and scan the InfoNotice.

Perhaps you could hack/co-opt/use carrier services like UPS' MyChoice service,
which allows customers to electronically sign for pacakges, and give special
delivery instructions.

~~~
umsm
If you ship the packages directly to them, there is no reason to even think
about the UPS facility.

You're suggesting as a last-minute choice to use luna? That may be harder as
UPS checks IDs.

~~~
chockablock
>You're suggesting as a last-minute choice to use luna?

Yes, as an additional source of business on top of those those who have
planned ahead and shipped directly to Luna's warehouse.

In this 'after-the-miss' case, Luna could offer to solve an acute, possibly
unexpected problem, vs. being one of several options for those who planned
ahead (many discussed on this thread: ship to work, use Amazon Locker, etc).

>That may be harder as UPS checks IDs.

That's why I suggested interfacing with carriers. UPS MyChoice allows you to
sign electronically for packages and give special instructions. I imagine
FedEx has a similar offering.

------
djhworld
They're solving an issue that's been slowly building over the last 10 or so
years. I love online shopping, but the fatal flaw has always been the delivery
process, which is heavily geared towards those who work at home, or have a
partner/family member available in the house during the day.

Most of the time I get stuff delivered to work, but quite often we get angry
emails from postroom staff who are swamped with packages and can't determine
what's "business critical" post and just people ordering personal items off
the web. I can sympathise with that a bit.

------
dingaling
A good idea and it illustrates the growing trend of proxy-services. That is,
traditional services are so inflexible or inconvenient that the best way to
deal with them is to decouple them from the individual and insert a proxy that
buffers the service.

I've noticed this with banking too, people decoupling the payment mechanisms (
card accounts, direct debits etc ) from their main accounts.

Edit: I wonder what non-IT people make of such patterns.

~~~
djhworld
What if the traditional service starts performing the same service, rendering
the proxy a meaningless middleman?

I applaud these guys for recognising a gap in the market, but it seems quite
risky to me.

~~~
Nicholas_C
Indeed. It would take relatively very little investment for UPS and gang to
start doing night deliveries. I think the barriers to entry are pretty low for
the big boys.

~~~
autoreverse
There is a comment above explaining that union and contractor agreements would
hamper the major incumbents.

I'm wondering if UPS etc. would be interested in partnering with or investing
in Luna instead.

------
ah-
Over here in Germany we have solved that problem with the Packstation. They're
everywhere and you can just go there and fetch your packets whenever you want:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation)

And there's no additional fee and I think sending a packet using them is
cheaper than doing it the traditional way.

~~~
voltagex_
Australia Post is currently doing this with Parcel Lockers, but they're
degrading the service to a point where it's less useful (no courier
deliveries, limited international deliveries, no paid option, no API to access
pending packages)

------
chiph
I just spent 10 days playing Whack-A-Mole with UPS to get my "Signature
Required" package. Just one issue with them after another. I was even thinking
of asking them to direct me to where the driver was on his route, and I'd go
meet him somewhere.

So $6.99 to ensure I got the package when I was home? Yes, I'd pay it. Luna:
Come to Austin next.

------
minor_nitwit
I'm not sure that people will go through this app and pay another $6 on top of
the original shipping fee, and enter an oddball shipping address. They may pay
it if it's an option at checkout, as at that point they are weighing the
shipping costs as a total and looking at things like overnighting a package,
or two-day shipping etc. If it was a markup for nighttime delivery at
checkout, and you just enter your home address one time, that would be the
most painless implementation. To get there, that means they'll need to partner
with Amazon, UPS, FedEx, etc, rather than acting as competitors. If these
companies are not interested in night-time delivery or unable to do night-time
delivery for labor reasons, they may be quite willing to earn a markup by
partnering with Luna. They already have similar relationship with USPS which
handles last mile deliveries, which is what it looks like Luna is going for.

------
jaynos
Excellent Idea! My Amazon Prime account makes me automatically turned off by
delivery charges. $6.99 is too steep per package for me (mainly due to the low
cost of the items I purchase), but I would definitely enroll in some tier type
pay package. $X for Y total deliveries or $1.75X for 2Y total deliveries.

edit: clarity

~~~
bentcorner
Speaking of which, does Amazon batch Amazon.com deliveries with Amazon Fresh
deliveries? Might make sense if you don't mind waiting an extra day for a
package to get routed through Amazon Fresh's warehouse in exchange for knowing
it'll be out in front of your door in the morning.

~~~
shrike
You can search for Amazon.com items at Fresh.amazon.com. Anything that shows
up is available to be delivered by your Fresh driver.

------
sirmarksalot
This is a cool idea, and one that I would definitely pay for in certain
circumstances (basically any situation where I end up having to drive to the
UPS facility). However, I'd want to be sure that I can actually use the
service under those circumstances.

My difficulty is when a company like Apple sends a package as "signature
required." First, will I be able to specify the Luna address, or will I be
required to have the billing and shipping addresses match up? Second, will the
Luna representative's signature be counted as an authorized signature for
UPS's purposes?

Both of these things are mostly out of Luna's control, unless they enter
negotiations with these companies. And while this should be a no-brainer for
UPS from an efficiency standpoint, you really can't underestimate their
ability to make bad decisions.

~~~
kine
Luna can receive packages that require your signature. You may have to make a
note on the UPS or FedEx site but it's totally doable.

------
rickyc091
I have to say this is pretty awesome. I currently pay $8/mo for my USPS PO
Box, but I'm wary to send expensive packages there since they have a tendency
to misplace packages. So far, they've only lost one package, but there are
many times where I'll go there and they can't locate a package. If I return
several weeks later, they managed to find it.

I'm not a big fan of one time fees, but I can definitely see myself paying for
a monthly subscription plan, similar to Amazon prime. Any thoughts of this in
the near future?

------
jodoherty
I'd much rather have my packages delivered to a secure, conveniently located
facility that notifies me of the delivery and that I can visit to pick up my
package at my leisure. But then, I'm more concerned with completely offloading
the stress over when my package might be delivered, whether or not it might
get stolen, and whether or not I have to be there to sign off for it.

Still, this appears to be a useful step up from having packages delivered at
random times throughout the day.

~~~
marccuban
BufferBox

~~~
jodoherty
Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. Hope it spreads, because it's nowhere
near my region yet.

------
orik
I'm worried about my security with this application. I'm essentially telling
strangers with a delivery van that my home will be empty until this time.

I'll deliver to my Office for now. I'm excited about this service but
skeptical.

(EDIT: Upon re-reading this comment I noticed I came off sounding like this
service might be a scam. I'm moreso worried about MITM and subpoenas)

~~~
kine
That's an understandable reaction. We need to build trust with our users and
with the city. That comes with time and we'll get there.

For your peace of mind, our entire delivery fleet is background checked,
interviewed and held to very high standards. We log every package that comes
to us in great detail for any claims that could be made.

Give us a try, we think you'll like it. Your first delivery is free so you
really have nothing to lose!

Thanks for your comment and for your edit.

~~~
kine
Also, my email is zack@useluna.com if you'd like to get in touch/ask
questions/learn more

------
ztnewman
San Francisco - the delivery driver capital of the world

~~~
tostitos1979
I guess eventually the market will figure it out. Delivery drivers will make
more than programmers and all will be good again :p

Anyhoo ... the idea seems cool.

------
thoughtpalette
Awesome idea!

How do you guys deal with faulty products? I know UPS and FedEx cover product
issues brought on by the S&H process.

------
athst
This is a cool service for urban areas, but I wonder if it's really true that
UPS or FedEx wouldn't just do this if it became popular. For example, I
recently discovered that with FedEx you can now schedule a delivery for 5-8PM
for $5, and often UPS will deliver things during the evening, I assume because
people are more likely to be home then.

------
malandrew
I could see this working for very large bulky things you don't want to carry
home, but for all small to moderately sized items, you can just have stuff
shipped to the office.

------
seivan
We solve that by delivering to our office. Works like a charm.

~~~
kine
But then you have to lug it home or it sits at your desk. Also totally depends
on the package. Give Luna a try, we think you'll like it

~~~
samspenc
This. I can use "deliver to the office" for small packages, but for large
packages, I would rather use Luna.

~~~
kine
We hope you'll give us a try

~~~
samspenc
As soon as you guys are in NYC! :)

------
bobzimuta
I snubbed the idea until I realized the obvious acquisition target is Amazon.
How long are you estimating until they offer? After the NYC rollout?

------
wehadfun
I think that they are empfasizing the iphone app too much. I do like the
service. Delivering stuff when people are actually there.

~~~
kine
Good feedback. Thanks!

------
ojbyrne
I find UPS generally delivers to residential areas between 6:30pm and 8pm.

------
repnation
How long can packages be stored with Luna before you deliver them?

~~~
kine
We prefer same day delivery but can go as many as 5 days

------
tyrelb
I would use this in Canada (Vancouver!)

------
robomartin
Why so many delivery startups? Are these real problems needing solutions or
entrepreneurs chasing the perception of a market that, in reality, does not
exist?

Quick story: A good friend of mine thought he saw an opportunity to make money
when 3.5 in floppy disks came out (yes, this is ancient). He found a supplier
of bulk disks and placed ads in several magazines offering 50 and 100 disk
packs at a good deal. One of the magazines printed weekly. A week after he
placed his first ad a competitor came out offering a similar deal. A couple of
weeks later, another. And then another. And so on for several weeks. At the
conclusion of his agreed-upon twelve week run for the ads he did not renew the
contract.

He sold exactly ZERO disks.

He watched as every single one of his competitors pulled out as their
contracts ran out.

His conclusion was that these entrepreneurs simply followed each other into a
non-existing market. He was first. Others saw what he did and thought there
was money to be made. They all followed each other taking a virtual dive off
the edge or a cliff. Nobody make a dime.

Ever since he told me that story years ago I've kept an eye out for that kind
of behavior. I've seen it many times and in different industries, some with
massive capital investments. One such example is the consumer 3D madness that
keeps coming back to bite those who try it. But they keep trying! Amazing.

