
Amsterdam Conscripts Homeless in the War on Cash - walterbell
http://bitcoinist.com/amsterdam-homeless-war-cash/
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MatthewWilkes
So, the beggar is out on the streets with a card reader that sends money to an
account run by a shelter, which allows them to purchase services from this
shelter?

Sounds more like they're being asked to fundraise for what I hope is a charity
and being paid with benefits in kind than being given freedom from depending
on cash.

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RichardHeart
I don't think visibly marking Homeless people is ethical. They did that to
Jewish people way back when. Am I looking at the wrong photo, or is it really
a visible homeless badge?

Yeah, it really is a giant homeless badge:
[http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/01/contactless-payment-
jacket-...](http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/01/contactless-payment-jacket-
created-for-homeless-people/)

~~~
anotheryou
Why not make it a sticker or just something to hold...

I'd also like to know from someone who has been in that situation, maybe even
an addict, what he thinks of the limitation on what he can spend the money on.
I guess it's good because people will spend more and it can't fuel an
addiction, but it also strips you from some more freedom.

I also wonder if registration is somewhat anonymous with no questions asked
for illegals, minors etc.

~~~
omegaworks
> illegals

I'm sure it's not your intention, but you further dehumanize individuals when
you use that word to describe their immigration status. Please consider "the
undocumented" instead.

[http://youtu.be/vehgRK3ieVM](http://youtu.be/vehgRK3ieVM)

~~~
RichardHeart
>dehumanize

I'm sure it's not your intention, but you further dehumanize individuals when
you use that word to describe how they're being treated when called their
common nickname. Please consider that when you try to force people to use your
words to push an agenda, you harm the plight of those you are trying to help.

Further, that video was terrible. Humans create abbreviations and nicknames
for tons of things without regard to legal validity. Do you have any other
lists of common nicknames we're not allowed to use?

Like can I still call Green Bay Packers fans cheeseheads?

~~~
johnchristopher
> Like can I still call Green Bay Packers fans cheeseheads?

No, because you are a grown up person and you don't need derogatory terms to
appear cool or hip.

~~~
RichardHeart
"The term, however, was quickly embraced by Wisconsinites and is now a point
of pride"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead)

I'm ok with a substitute example for an acceptable group nickname if you have
one on offer.

~~~
johnchristopher
Haha, I got owned :D. Not living in the US, not from the US and cheesehead
sounded like an insult to my ears.

Still I believe that not every nicknames or abbreviations is a good thing.

~~~
kwhitefoot
It probably was originally an insult by an opposing side's fans.

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fauigerzigerk
It's very important to enable the homeless to take cashless payments. But I
don't like this particular scheme at all.

It is horribly patronising to tell people what to spend their money on or what
jacket to wear.

~~~
bertil
Homeless people have the choice to wear this jacket and accept donations with
it or not; if they believe that the guarantees offered by the charity drive
more donation, that gives them more agency, not less.

It feels less offensive to me to do it that way than to have someone ask them
how they are going to spend that money.

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throwaway81872
Absolutely disgusting. Abusing a "feel-good" impulse to get people hooked on
cashless payments.

I've said it before (and was naturally downvoted), but The Netherlands is
devolving into a totalitarian society -- not Orwellian, but Huxley-style.

~~~
spiderfarmer
This is an outrageous claim, not at all supported by facts. Hence the
downvotes.

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bogomipz
>"This demonstrates that even if demonetization could actually curb corruption
and the black market, it may change the lives of many ordinary citizens for
the worse both in the developing and developed world."

I am all for the consumer convenience aspect of crypto currencies but is it
actually being sold as an anti-corruption strategy?

You would have to look no further than ransomware to see that crypto currency
just like regular fiat currency can be used in illicit contexts. You might
even be able to argue it would become preferable to cash for bribes and
corruption since it remove the burden of physically transferring and storing
large amounts of cash.

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tracker1
Though not a believer in the Christian sense, this sounds awfully like we're
heading towards the number of the beast here. I'm not about to stockpile gold
and coins, but if electronic currency is forced upon me, the less I'd want to
use it.

On one fortunate side, at least for now, in the US there are enough people far
more vocal than I am about this if removing physical currency were ever
genuinely proposed/pushed.

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dazc
Why is it always assumed beggars and homeless are two of the same? Disclosure:
I have been homeless and would never resort to asking strangers for money.

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johnchristopher
> Why is it always assumed beggars and homeless are two of the same?

Don't know, let's see.. hmmm... maybe because the two often go together ?

~~~
DanBC
There are plenty of beggars who are not homeless or vulnerably housed.

~~~
johnchristopher
Plenty as in the majority ?

~~~
DanBC
In England, probably yes the majority of people who beg are not homeless.

Of course, we need to define what we mean by homeless. And I'd like to try to
avoid some of the unpleasant and stigmatising messages sometimes made by
English councils who are trying to stop people giving money to beggars.

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id122015
Guess what happens when "cash is dead" ? Long live the cash!

We need more competitors in the business of issuing money; What are they going
to do about all the gold coins ?

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basicplus2
Next they will be tattooing numbers on homeless peoples arms.. then low paid
workers then middle income then...

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Dowwie
I imagine that technology like this would be really useful for fundraising by
municipalities. It's hard to watch police and fire fighting personnel raise
funds by collecting loose change from passers by.

~~~
Maarten88
> watch police and fire fighting personnel raise funds...

What? Where does that happen? Isn't policing a primary responsibility for the
government, to be paid from taxes by everyone? Fundraising seems very
misplaced for them, no matter how.

~~~
bertil
It does sound misplaced, but it is often the case especially at the end of the
year. I’ve seen calendar sales used in that fashion quite a lot.

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malcolmgreaves
Most homeless people are insane (i.e. suffering from an intense mental
illness). This comes up on HN all the time -- for these people, the only hope
is immediate, thorough medical care (involuntary if need be).

For the non-mental-ill homeless...

Why give them money? Serious replies please.

One becomes homeless because one cannot manage money effectively. IMO it's
cruel to just give a homeless person a money -- they're going to spend it
unwisely again. It's better to provide the essentials (food, water, shelter,
_basic_ healthcare, hygiene) then money.

The transition out of homelessness requires a re-learning responsibility. Our
solutions to dealing with homeless people should focus on the fact that,
fundamentally, homeless people fail in our society. We have to re-educate them
so that they are productive and serve as a net positive for society.

~~~
misja111
No doubt your intentions are good but the solutions you propose are scary. You
say that mentally ill without a home should get medical care. Alright, I
agree. And they will get that medical care in Amsterdam if they ask for it.
But then you say, they should get the treatment involuntary if need be. But
suppose I am a homeless person living on the street, who will determine that I
am mentally ill and should get forced treatment? What if it is my personal
choice to live on the street? Or does that already qualify me as mentally ill,
in somebody's eyes?

Actually it is possible in Amsterdam for people to be forced to get treatment,
but that is only if they are a clear danger to themselves or the people around
them.

Then at the end you say "homeless people fail in our society. We have to re-
educate them so that they are productive and serve as a net positive for
society."

I hope this will not be a forced re-education as well? And who will determine
what 'our' society is? I find it really scary when a group of people defines
society to be 'theirs' and that anybody who does not wish to live along their
lines should be re-educated. History provides plenty of examples where this
idea was put into practice, most of the time with all the good intentions, and
every time the outcome was horrible.

