
Chickens Are Bullies – Can Their Behavior Teach Us About Our Own? - sfrench531
https://medium.com/@s.french531/chickens-are-bullies-can-their-bad-behavior-teach-us-about-our-own-8ba58c735178
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zw123456
When I was growing up on a farm, my Aunt Hattie had chickens and it was normal
when we went to her house for dinner to watch her chop the chickens head off
(on a farm, such things were fairly common and not at all shocking when you
are brought up with it).

I remember asking her how she decided which one to take. She said that when
she went out to get their eggs, whichever one pecked at her the most would be
the next one to go. I asked her if that worked, did it send a message to the
others. She very flatly said no, they are too stupid to understand that but it
makes me feel better. I just thought that was funny and somehow is something I
remember.

~~~
daveslash
We had over a dozen chickens growing up in rural New England. The one at the
bottom of the pecking order lost a toe due to it being pecked at by all the
others. Our chickens were only for eggs. My Uncle & neighbor had a flock as
meat birds; one fall we had a get together where we killed them all, de-
feathered and cleaned them, and ultimately froze them. He said sorry to every
chicken. You're right; such things are not shocking if you grow up with it.

~~~
jimmux
Chicken pecking orders can be brutal.

We had multiple flocks for eggs when I was growing up, and they were usually
placid but some hens were so aggressive that I wish we had made dinner of
them.

One in particular systematically pecked to death every other hen, working down
the pecking order until it was the only one left. She was eventually taken out
by a fox. We raised them all together from chicks, so I have no explanation
for it. As the Simpsons put it, some animals are just jerks.

~~~
saghm
> One in particular systematically pecked to death every other hen, working
> down the pecking order until it was the only one left.

Is this where the term "pecking order" comes from? It seems particularly apt
in this case.

~~~
will_pseudonym
Yes.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecking_order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecking_order)

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vezycash
I had a small flock of about 50 cockerels two years ago. And the bullying
issue made me swear never to raise cockerels again. They were petty, jealous,
constantly fighting, noisy and downright nosy.

The big shots would peck any insolent runt who tried to steal a bite. They'd
sit down to relax after they'd had their fill but still wouldn't allow the
smaller birds to feed. I lost quite a number to pecking injuries and outright
starvation - in a cage filled with food.

I however enjoyed turning the bullies into the bullied by isolating them for a
few days and reintroducing them.

Broilers on the other hand were a joy to own. All they cared for was food,
water and a clean, dry spot to rest. It's a pity they shit too much.

~~~
cco
>50 cockerels

You recreated the chicken version of an American prison, no where in nature
would you find a gathering of 50 male chickens in tight living quarters. They,
and humans, aren't built for that sort of living situation and it is
unsurprising that behavioral problems materialize.

My favorite flock composition was a base of all female birds, add in a
cockerel and see how he and the hens interact. If you find a good match leave
him there and then as new male chickens are born watch how they interact with
the current cockerel. Sometimes they get along fine with each other and you
can leave them, other times they go at each other like mad and then I'd
usually kill the younger male. I never liked broilers because _all_ they liked
was food, they were just so boring! I like curious chickens!

~~~
Sharlin
Yeah. I mean, what do you expect to happen when you put a bunch of animals in
a social and physical environment they are not well-adapted to? It's humans
who are the bullies.

~~~
chrisco255
I can't imagine that modern chickens aren't well adapted to coop life. We've
been raising them that way for quite a few millenia now. And look how, for
example, dogs have evolved from wolves in the same time frame. At any rate, my
mother raises chickens and tried to raise them free range (with full access to
3 or 4 acres) for a while, but she would lose them constantly to coyotes. I
think that nowadays, chickens are ill-adapted for the wild.

~~~
cududa
That’s preposterous. There’s no way chickens with the best adaptation are the
ones being bread; they’re in cages. Selective breeding could’ve easily
developed a selection bias of large chickens that are obscenely aggressive and
fight their confines.

~~~
chrisco255
Large chickens have certainly been bred for but this is part of the reason
modern domesticated chickens are ill suited for wild life: they are too fat
and too slow besides being flightless. Hens in particular have no natural
defenses against predators.

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all2
The phrase "pecking order" has some reality to it.

Though, I'd like to mention that most chickens aren't bullies. In fact, I'd
say something like 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 is a bully [0]. The rest just get along.

Now, if you want to see a really mean bird, go watch some turkies for a while.

[0] I grew up around a lot of chickens.

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Baeocystin
>Now, if you want to see a really mean bird, go watch some turkies for a
while.

...and if that's not enough, wander within 50' of a Canada goose. Those things
are powered by distilled spite and angry honking.

~~~
degenerate
My theory on why Canadians are so nice is because the geese are downright
assholes, and the entire country evens out.

~~~
Baeocystin
I am now picturing some Lovecraftian Ritual, purple tendrils of evil snaking
into a white goose, turning its head black with hate, its body singed from the
hellfire, while the human contingent of Canada suddenly feels the urge to be
friendly and apologise for something.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
We appease them by making sure they have a plentiful food supply of well
manicured grass.

~~~
elefanten
A ritual they seal by promptly shitting all over it

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Maultasche
We had chickens when I was a kid and they can really be mean to each other. I
witnessed bullying and the killing and eating thing happened once as well.
They were always happy to see me because I was the one that fed them.

I imagine dinosaurs behaving like chickens, and that's a scary thought.
Chickens will eat pretty much anything organic and a giant chicken would have
no problem eating people.

They had a fenced outdoor area they could wander around in, but they always
ate everything that grew, so it was just dirt. We did let the chickens out of
their pen in the late fall and winter when we didn't have a garden planted.
They were really happy roaming around and pecking at things. They'd all wander
back into their coop in evening to go to sleep, so all I had to do was close
the door at the end of the day.

~~~
CreepGin
> They had a fenced outdoor area they could wander around in, but they always
> ate everything that grew, so it was just dirt. We did let the chickens out
> of their pen in the late fall and winter when we didn't have a garden
> planted. They were really happy roaming around and pecking at things. They'd
> all wander back into their coop in evening to go to sleep, so all I had to
> do was close the door at the end of the day.

Hmmm... I did the exact same thing. Only difference is that I did it in
Stardew Valley. =D

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vonnik
Having worked on a farm, I can confirm that chickens are unsympathetic and
occasionally cannibalistic, especially when large numbers live together. (We
had one case where eggs were getting eaten, and discovered the culprit one day
with yolk on its beak.)

If you converted them all to humans, they would be a bunch of jerks of
breathtaking stupidity. The Biff Tannens of Back to the Future. I love that
Sarah French is looking at how to mitigate the bullying.

~~~
Sharlin
I'm not sure you can blame the chickens if you force them to live in an
unnatural, stressful environment that they are not well-adapted to. As the
article mentions, the primary reasons for "bullying" are stress, boredom,
illness and overcrowding, all four of which are caused or controlled by the
birds' human keepers.

~~~
uncoder0
It's interesting too that all 4 of those are present to some extent in our
schools where much bullying takes place.

~~~
Sharlin
Quite so. Workplaces, as well.

~~~
jacobush
Already mentioned, but prisons.

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blaze33
As a kid we had 3 chickens in our garden. One day some farmer gave us a
rooster that while small a small one, consistently bullied all the other
animals in his farm. Our 3 black hens somehow decided to act together against
him. Until we found him killed and half eaten. Nature can be nightmarish!

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mykowebhn
I agree with others that this is an over-generalization.

We had many hens, and the only one that was a bully was the bottom of the
pack. We had babies and this one chicken would try to bully the babies. I
think being the bottom of the pack, it might be understandable.

We've also had a few roosters. Two of them were absolutely docile and really
lovable. The third, although lovable, really was bossy with humans, but he was
a really good protector of the hens. He took his job seriously.

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exabrial
Those pinless peepers are an incredible invention. Forwarding that info on my
urban chicken family.

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martyvis
Interesting insight into some of the mechanisms that go on. We had 4 hens that
got on pretty well for the most part. We also had a few ducks housed in the
same pen. They also got on fairly well. I wonder how different species
interactions in birds could be mapped to human behaviour? We have probably a
dozen different wild birds that visit our yard and it is interesting watching
how they interact.

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vbuwivbiu
You put too many people in a confined space and they go nuts - is this a
surprise ?

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natmaka
John B. Calhoun studies are pertinent.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun)

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natmaka
AFAIK chicken systematically and thoroughly pecking at open wounds need
proteins.

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feistypharit
Children are bullies too! Why do we need to extrapolate from chickens.

~~~
byteface
I've worked in offices with full grown adults that are bullies, on a few
occasions. I don't mean physical. But small minded people talking and sneering
in groups, or managers taking credit or lying or blaming staff. Can take
months of dropping positive metaphors, analogies, idioms like "I don't care
who did it I just want it fixed" etc.. while turning the cheek or forgiving
their ignorance/stupidity until they're reprogrammed to have more decency or
be nice. Also takes a lot out of you. But worth it in the end. Especially if
you join an office where it's coming from the top down and it's miserable and
full of blame, then months later people are smiling and working together. I
agree with you here, why extrapolate specifically from chickens?. There are
many types of abuse; discriminatory, psychological, financial, hierarchical,
neglect, sexual, modern slavery, domestic, physical, verbal. Chickens are not
complex enough to understand much more than the obvious. Any threat to our
needs will be fought off however we instinctively know how or have learned.
Sounds strange but many people are unaware they are bullying and if you call
out the behavior they will feel bad and amend it. I doubt you could do that
with a chicken.

~~~
nostrademons
I wonder to what extent this is a manifestation of a lack of growth
opportunities in the environment.

In my experience, when a company is growing quickly, customers are abundant,
there are more new projects than people to do them, and everybody's stock
options go up each year, people tend to be cooperative, energetic, and
generally delightful to work with. Once growth slows, promotions & raises stop
coming, exciting new projects are scarce resources, and customers don't really
care what you do, the office politics gets insufferable. It's like as soon as
people run out of worthwhile things to do, they invent oppressive status games
to pass the time.

My recollection of middle & high school was similar. When kids are engaged,
learning things, able to pursue their interests, and have adequate adult
attention, they're cooperative and well-behaved. When they're all corraled
into the same track and have to compete for grades & attention, they get
nasty.

~~~
byteface
Completely agree. It's founded in needs and resources. Also it's not all about
the bully. Hierachies exist. There's not much we can do about that, it's
nature. No one calls a shark a bully. All we can really do is try and make
them less abusive. The 'victim' can also bring a lot of it on themselves by
being a 'snowflake'. A victim can quite quickly become a bully when their
aloofness pays off and everyone turns on the person that was 'bullying'. I
guess when it's really 'bullying' is when it's unnecessary? If someone is
being assertive or pushing you to see you evolve, is that bullying? nope. not
in my book. But can be percieved that way.

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sametmax
Sounds like school to me.

