
Reforms to Ease Students’ Stress Divide a New Jersey School District - pavornyoh
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/26/nyregion/reforms-to-ease-students-stress-divide-a-new-jersey-school-district.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
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pavement
I think it's strange to see this sort of conflict crop up as a cultural,
racial division. Providing time to goof off, unwind, relax, and release
tension isn't really a "dumbing down" of curriculum.

Hyper-competitive atmospheres, based on an immersion in a perpetuity of
dictated, goal-oriented projects, where objectives and achievements are
assigned, and not chosen, without any opportunities for... (dare I say?) "fun"
won't provide for memorable experiences that last beyond childhood. This sort
of thing voids the personality, in my opinion.

A childhood of constant, unrelenting cerebral challenges, and compulsory
learning, is going to produce some real fuckin' jerks down the road, wouldn't
you say?

~~~
wfo
Not to mention a sense of superiority and arrogance when it comes to the
metrics which measure success in those challenge. I'd say it already has,
particularly easy to see in our very own engineering crowd

------
egsec
I know many people who graduated from this school district....

"What white middle-class parents do not always understand, she said, is how
much pressure recent immigrants feel to boost their children into the middle
class."

This may be a great general quote, but should not be applied to this town.
Immigrants moving here are not poor, not "off the boat". West Windsor is a
township with mostly upper middle class people (Median Income per 2010 census
was $156,110[1]) and a very high number of people with advanced degrees per
capita (41% have graduate/professional degree as of 2013[2]), most of these
immigrants came here with advanced degrees. People are not moving here to get
ahead, they are already well established in the upper middle class. Houses are
insanely expensive in West Windsor and Plainsboro, you will find people
selling 3 bedroom condos in the 600k range, this is a town with a long commute
to NYC or Philadelphia.

There are plenty of people of all races on both sides, I think the author is
taking some liberties to up the page view count.

There likely is a backlash from a tiger mom like segment, but this article
seems like a NYT reporter just trying to get something out on the heels of the
recent Atlantic article[3] on the kids in Silicon Valley being so stressed at
school they committ suicide.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Windsor_Township,_New_Jer...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Windsor_Township,_New_Jersey#2010_Census)

[2] [http://www.west-windsor-
plainsboro.k12.nj.us/common/pages/Di...](http://www.west-windsor-
plainsboro.k12.nj.us/common/pages/DisplayFile.aspx?itemId=17749112) p. 10

[3] [http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-
sili...](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-
valley-suicides/413140/)

------
762236
One of the parents in the article complained about an anti-intellectual
movement taking off. Yet he would do well to consider the scientific method:
there is lots of research on cognitive development, and more could be pursued.
Why don't parents, particularly in the STEM-centric Bay Area, consider the
academic research results, and the scientific method? Yet the answer is clear
to me: value systems.

~~~
superuser2
The more interesting and powerful kind of anti-intellectualism is STEM-
centrism. The same people who complain about lack of academic rigor demand
that we gut the study of literature, art, music, theater, social sciences,
etc. so that students can use the time to factor more equations and compute
more integrals instead.

This is also down to value systems: I was raised in one that says education is
meant to produce well-rounded intellectuals and good citizens, and "they" say
it begins and ends with increasing the price of your labor in the marketplace.

~~~
marktangotango
That's a bit of a mischaracterization, my understanding of that position isn't
that the arts don't have value, but that the "general Ed" requirements tack an
extra year onto an undergrad degree, and have little more purpose than to
enrich the university. There are many countries, without extensive general Ed
requirements, where the norm is three years for a Bachelors degree.

My experience was; returning to undergrad to get a cs degree, and completing
the course work for q double major in math. Then being denied the bs in math
due to unsatisfied gen Ed requirements. I appealed asking to use previous
courses from a previous degree as substitutes, but was denied. So I got a
minor instead. The decision to not allow the subs was completely arbitrary and
buracratic.

~~~
superuser2
In the US, the job training program that doesn't "waste" your time with
general education is an associate's degree.

Where bachelor's degrees are required, it should be because the additional
requirements (like critical thinking and communication skills, command of
English, breadth of knowledge outside your chosen field) are actually
important. Perhaps it _isn 't_, but it should be.

~~~
marktangotango
In my personal example, the requirements were 4 auditorium style humanities
electives. Where is the value to the student or anyone BUT the university in
those?

I'm pretty sure honors grads from England or Australia would be offended by
your equating they're degrees to AS degrees.

~~~
superuser2
Indeed, auditorium lectures are a terrible way to teach humanities, that's why
expensive and highly selective private schools have a claim to providing a
higher quality education. Those classes are taught in discussions of 18 kids
and a professor around a conference table. This is expensive, but there's no
reason it should be restricted to the wealth or intellectual top-10% as it
currently is. Just public opposition, driven in large part by the STEM crowd.

Germany at least has a 13th grade. I expect the burden of general education is
simply shifted to high schools. You can make a C average and graduate high
school in the US while barely literate; I expect that's not the same in
England and Australia. I know that in Germany, smart kids fail Gymnasium
classes routinely: like college, to pass you have to have actually learned
something. In my experience at a very good public high school in the US you
had to be brain dead or not trying to make less than a C+ in most things.

------
dawnbreez
One of the possible side effects of a focus on success above all else is a
crippling fear of failure; reports of stress and mental illness in grade
school are mirroring reports of total breakdowns in college, often over things
that aren't significant at all. The problem is that we're telling these people
that failure is not an option, that if you fail now it ruins you. The more we
say it, the more true it is, as students race for the A+. It is, after all, an
arms race. However, we miss an important lesson, that failure is inevitable
and even important. Some venture capitalists will not fund someone who hasn't
failed 3 times before, because they know that failure is a function of both
effort and environment, and a failure followed by more effort shows that when
the environment lines up the entrepreneur in question will still be putting in
effort.

~~~
Futurebot
This is a correct and under-appreciated point, but it's going to be very tough
to convince people of this when they continue to hear stories about how
certain "top" companies only want people from certain
schools([https://hbr.org/2015/10/firms-are-wasting-millions-
recruitin...](https://hbr.org/2015/10/firms-are-wasting-millions-recruiting-
on-only-a-few-campuses)) and are actually looking at college / SAT / ACT
grades([http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/31/jobs/31gpa.html?pagewanted...](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/31/jobs/31gpa.html?pagewanted=all))
in their hiring decisions.

------
meesterdude
The thing is, it's not "dumbing down". You can become a brilliant
mathematician, or chemist, or musician; but if you are entirely lacking of
everything else (communication skills, resiliency, maturity, independence,
happiness) you'll miss out on a lot of opportunities in life, and it'll cost
you dearly.

Children need to be encouraged to learn; but with the carrot, not the stick.
Otherwise you're just creating broken humans for the salvation of your own ego
or ideals of "success".

------
Futurebot
Both groups are acting rationally, but their behaviors are based on different
premises. The "relax" group values reducing the risk of suicide, burnout, and
future psychological problems. The "push harder" group is responding to the
(completely real) pressures to compete that get more serious all the time,
pressures that tell them their children will become part of the precarious
segment of society if they don't. The former group "should" be listened to on
a health basis, but their ideas suffer from a collective action problem, so
the latter group is probably going to win out one way or another (even if
things like homework or whatever gets banned, they can always step up things
like tutoring or extracurriculars outside school.)

The latter is willing to chance suicide or psychological problems in exchange
for the reduced likelihood of future career failure. I think the way to deal
with a Gordian knot like this is to convince everyone that it's actually pro-
career success to have people step back, pursue creative activities, etc.
Convince them that:

\- Napping is a productivity booster (recent article on HN talked about this
one.)

\- Many jobs in the future will require creativity, not just memorization or
technical skills (personal chefs, gardeners, high-end nannies, pilots,
publicists/marketers, artists, entrepreneurs, and tutors as Tyler Cowen and
others have suggested.)

\- Lack of exposure to "play" ideas will limit possible inputs that could help
with everything from game and UI design to business strategies. We're in a
highly specialized society, but cross-disciplinarity is becoming more
important every day.

\- Many jobs of the future will require both technical and social skills
([http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-jobs-now-
requir...](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-jobs-now-require-you-
to-be-a-people-person/))

The single minded focus on pure academics is missing the bigger picture. The
"push harders" need to learn that.

------
barry-cotter
> What white middle-class parents do not always understand, she said, is how
> much pressure recent immigrants feel to boost their children into the middle
> class.

The professions are not middle class. A very large proportion of the parents
of these pressured kids would be disappointed if their children only reached
the middle class.

> “They don’t have the same chances to get their children internships or jobs
> at law firms,” Professor Lee said. “So what they believe is that their
> children must excel beyond their white peers in academic settings so they
> have the same chances to excel later.”

The parents of these kids are also well aware that they need to be better than
an equivalent white kid to get into an equivalent college, or into an
equivalent professional programme.

------
alphaparent
I thought America believes in meritocracy.

------
s73v3r
Also, every student should have the opportunity to participate in the music
and arts programs. Art is for everyone, not just the few who were forced by
their parents to play from birth.

------
s73v3r
Anyone who claims that not having the most stressful, rigorous environment
around for children is going to lead to a "dumbing down" needs to take a
serious look at themselves, and what they want to subject their children to.
Maybe CPS should take a look as well.

~~~
asanwal
CPS = child protective services?

If yes, why?

Pushing your kids to achieve and holding them to high expectations is a good
thing. It's not child abuse assuming that's what you meant by CPS.

If some kids can't hang, that's life. We don't need to regulate that away.

I realize that hard work and grit and the grind are out of favor today but
making schools less rigorous is foolish.

Disclaimer: son of immigrants

~~~
linksnapzz
It's great to see rote grade-grinding (in HS, no less) mistaken for
achievement, and rampant credential-grubbing seen as the path to material
success & respectability. It's exactly that kind of mindset that for 300 years
has made the USA the place it is today.

Disclaimer: actual American

~~~
asanwal
I wasn't around for all of the last 300 years of US history as you were it
seems, but I suspect the current aversion to doing work and things that seem
hard would make many prior generations of Americans cry or potentially laugh
at us.

I was born here in the 70s and even I see a massive attitude shift. I wonder
what folks a generation ahead of me think.

Actual American. Ha ha. That's rich.

