
Why do so many people hate US airports? (2015) - otoolep
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34704775
======
ThenAsNow
The article cites various aviation consultants and airport authorities as
pointing out funding and regulation issues that limit the ability to make
improvements. Fair enough. But there are so many ways the experience could be
made better without significant expenditure.

\- Empower airport personnel to care about the airport in the same way we do
national monuments, etc. Changi, etc., want to wow foreign visitors. We should
have the same mindset.

\- Completely streamline and eliminate to maximum feasible extent the
omnipresent "security announcements". The infuriatingly grating and
condescending messages that begin with "The Transportation Security
Administration..." at airports like DCA are somewhere between rage-inducing
and dehumanizing.

\- Patrick Smith (quoted in the article) has long campaigned against the
incredibly loud airport TVs blaring CNN or somesuch, and fortunately, some
airports seem to be listening. The rest should as well.

\- Seats whose primary purpose is to prevent anyone sleeping there also have
the side effect of being quite uncomfortable. Is the sleeping people issue
such a big deal that all passengers who want to sit have to pay the price?

There has to be a ton of low-hanging fruit like this which is probably why the
U.S. airport experience is so detested - it's a sign of so much negligence
that such relatively easy and inexpensive measures are not taken.

~~~
superuser2
>Seats whose primary purpose is to prevent anyone sleeping there

I don't understand this. Post 9/11, anyone who enters the terminal is either a
paying customer with an upcoming flight or staff. It's not like a train
station where you need to worry about the homeless hanging around.

~~~
sjwright
You wouldn't be saying that if you were forced to stand near the gate lounge
because large numbers of sleeping people were monopolising all the available
seats.

~~~
superuser2
Those people paid for tickets same as you, their travels have worn them out
enough that they want to sleep in a public place, they're stuck in airport
limbo long enough to actually go to sleep, and you think they are
"monopolizing" a resource of which you are more deserving... why, exactly?
What do you imagine they should have done instead?

Why can't you just walk a few gates down to one with an open seat?

~~~
sjwright
In your exceptionally narrow scenario, sure. Clearly you don't fly much.

------
JumpCrisscross
TL; DR Security theatre makes American airports less efficient, the U.S.
government look incompetent and wastes travelers' time.

> " _Patrick Smith of Ask the Pilot blog, says...: 'Our security protocols are
> needlessly tedious, and the connection process for passengers arriving from
> overseas is horrendously time-consuming. All passengers arriving from other
> countries are required to clear immigration, re-check their bags, and
> undergo the Transport Security Administration rigmarole, even if they're
> merely in transit to a third country.'

Sixty-seven percent of people who fly out of America arrive at a better
airport, the Economist estimated last year, after delving into data on more
than a million flights._"

~~~
curun1r
There were other points too. Our airports are older...like much of our
crumbling infrastructure, we don't spend enough to keep them modern and the
financing maze between Federal, State and local government makes finding the
money to modernize airports more difficult than it has to be. And the airlines
oppose increasing the fee added to ticket prices, so improvements can't be
financed by travelers.

But yeah, the dingy and cramped gate areas are just the final insult added to
the TSA's already-ruined travel experience.

~~~
prawn
I swear two trips ago, I went through LAX and it was going through
renovations. Then the most recent trip, the security procedure and wait was
longer than before. I hope that they were renovating areas other than the
security process!

In Australia, the wait times seem like they're generally due to low staffing
at peak times rather than process or infrastructure.

~~~
robbiep
After 2 weeks jumping through US airports recently (currently at LAX on a
Qantas A380 headed home), I can't understand all the unnecessary waiting at
security clearance.

I've rarely waited longer than 5 minutes to clear security at any airport in
Australia, the queues flow quickly and efficiently- cf. my recent experiences
at LAX, Charlotte Douglas and JFK where I made sure I was turning up 3 hours
early for domestic flights, and still came close to missing at JFK despite
having a priority line through frequent flier level.

What a joke. The procedures are unnecessary and demeaning.

It looks like they could improve efficiency by just having a longer conveyor
for the XR machine! Pathetic.

~~~
prawn
Missed a flight at LAX by two minutes the other week despite showing up almost
two hours early. Wasn't going to be enough time to get through security/etc.
Very frustrating.

Was just thinking about longer conveyor belts too. The body scanner is rarely
a chokepoint. Seems to be either the guy manning the x-ray machine, or people
loading/unloading on the conveyor.

------
evolve2k
Something not mentioned in the article is the attitude of American staff at
airports. American airport staff just seem excessively rude by comparison to
any other airport or even service staff outside of airports. There is a sense
that displaying power and control is much more important that showing a sense
of welcome and humanity to anyone entering/exiting the US.

~~~
envy2
This. To me, one of the biggest examples is the border police. In Europe
manage to do their jobs _and_ be friendly—the guy stamping passports at AMS
last month even gave me a restaurant recommendation! Meanwhile, returning to
the US, I'm interrogated like a criminal about where I was and what I was
doing despite being a US citizen with the clear right to re-enter my own
country.

And don't even get me started on the TSA and their insistence on screaming at
me to take my phone out of my pocket (as if there are people in the damned
elite lane that somehow don't know this already).

~~~
jrnichols
"I'm interrogated like a criminal about where I was and what I was doing
despite being a US citizen"

This is one where your mileage may vary, but my most unfriendly experiences
have been in Canada. Both Toronto and Vancouver. Other countries haven't been
spectacular, mostly just sleepy immigration workers. I'd say that the folks in
Germany (FRA) were the most cheerful and friendly so far.

------
MAGZine
I'm so sick of having to take off my shoes at US airports. WHY? This has ought
to be the most useless security measure ever.

Now that I'm a Nexus Pass holder (US/CAN border) and eligible for TSA pre-
check it's not such a big deal but damn US airports are way overdone.

~~~
ThenAsNow
I can't believe more people don't object to this even on just a pure hygiene
basis. Use an airport bathroom, and you've probably stepped on urine. Take a
bin where the last guy's shoe soles have been, and you want me to put my
laptop there? I mean sure, public spaces always have the possibility of being
disgusting, but why require it?

------
davidw
I've flown some in both the US and Europe.

They all suck. At least US airports don't charge you for water, which you can
get at a water fountain.

I always used to enjoy sucking down some good, cool water in PDX after a long
flight which likely involved the purchase of outrageously priced bottled water
at some point in a European airport.

~~~
mrexroad
Yet they charge you for the cup -- $0.65 for a crappy plastic cup at SFO.

~~~
eosrei
Bring your own plastic/metal bottle. Just make sure it is empty before going
through security. SFO has water bottle fill stations.

------
sandworm101
My issue, and it is slight, is the constant presence of the military. It isn't
so much the soldiers, and there are lots of them in some airports, it's the
drumbeat of announcements declaring their presence. It's the USO announcements
every few minutes and the reminder that uniformed military get to board before
everyone else. I have plenty of family in the military and have nothing
against soldiers, but it only adds to the constant security reminders. We may
be in a perpetual war, but do I have to be reminded every five minutes?

------
orthoganol
Among first world nations, in Asia or West, American airports are an
embarrassment. Not just TSA, though that is the worst part. In other parts of
the world they are points of pride, they show them off to everyone. Here we
just don't care for whatever reason.

~~~
noobermin
I find this is common attitude for all forms of transport that have a tinge of
communism...err, shared quality, to them. If it isn't a car or for cars, fuck
it, cars are first.

I'm a biker/buser though, so I may be biased, if my flippant commment doesn't
demostrate that already.

------
rdtsc
Why make them better? For many cities/regions you don't have have a choice.
You have to fly to that airport. Sometimes you can fly to another,
better/newer airport in a big city but then given the price and inconvineince
to get to it, might not be worth it. Some people can take the train or drive,
but that works for small countries, not for US.

They have nothing to compete with (no hyperloop yet) so there is not much of
driver to improve.

Other (Asian) airports are newers as article mentions, they are often used as
showcase piece for national pride. It is not just that one locality building
it, it is the whole country.

Also out of some European airports, I liked Vienna because it is nice and
small. Amsterdam is not too bad. I found Paris CGD and Frankfurt a big dirty
mess, not a lot different than say JFK or Dulles (IAD).

------
howlingfantods
Everyone should get Global Entry. It makes the process of getting through
immigration relatively painless. Additionally, Global Entry allows you to use
the TSA Precheck lines, which are orders of magnitude shorter than the regular
security lines. Global Entry also recently implemented the ability to apply
for an APEC card, which lets you go through the diplomatic passport line at
most Asian airports.

There's certainly an ethical debate about paying the government for better
service but from a pragmatic standpoint, I can't recommend it enough.

~~~
Animats
However, getting Global Entry is a hassle. You have to call ICE, make an
appointment to go to an airport, go there, get fingerprinted, photographed,
and retina scanned, get asked some questions about your background, and then
wait for a card to be mailed to you.

(This probably involves giving up less privacy than creating a Facebook or
Google account, of course.)

~~~
dreamcompiler
Getting violated once in a somewhat professional manner is better than getting
violated unprofessionally every time you fly or re-enter the country. At least
that's what I told myself when I got Global Entry.

------
manicdee
If you want to see airport security done right, check out Dublin. That's in
Ireland, a country which has actually experienced domestic terrorism.

And even better experience is Keflavik in Iceland (only separated from Ireland
by one sea), where the only exposure you have to immigration/customs is the
passport office.

Of course in both cases if you are a US citizen or travelling to the US you
have extra checks to go through. Poor bastards.

But the TSA us the reason people hate the USA, not the crumbling crappy
infrastructure.

~~~
oneloop
"And even better experience is Keflavik in Iceland (only separated from
Ireland by one sea)"

I was sure you were gonna say one letter.

~~~
MagnumOpus
It's only separated from Ireland by one "c" \- that's what he said...

~~~
oneloop
Holy shit. That's brilliant.

------
jmspring
When I fly internationally, I always try for SFO to "somewhere not US near
destination". Since I mostly fly to Europe and use Star alliance; that is
Frankfurt or Munich, usually -- LH or UA metal.

For transitioning, MUC is way better (smaller) than FRA.

On return, I find the hoops necessary at foreign airports imposed on US bound
flights silly (extra questions, sometimes extra security, etc).

That said, with Global Entry, hitting the kiosk, handing over a slip and
skipping a process that could be near 90min is gold.

------
dasil003
Most US airports are better than Heathrow, and I consider the few European
airports I've been in to be on par with US airports (security measures aside).
Outside of New York and Chicago airports I haven't had a lot of complaints
(although I've somehow avoided LAX which I hear is bad). I like a lot of US
airports: SFO, OAK, SJC, ABQ, DEN, MSP, ATL have all been decent to me over
the years.

~~~
youngtaff
Maybe the old Heathrow terminals but the new Heathrow terminals are much
better than most US airports I've been in.

Most of my travel is to SFO, which is great by US standards but I've also been
through Boston, Miami & Austin in the last year and the departure zones are
pretty awful.

------
hodgesrm
"Why do so many people hate US airports?" There seems to be a basic mismatch
of expectations regarding air travel. We want cheap and safe air travel
(including safety from terrorism). Compared to the 1960s when jet travel
really started ticket prices have dropped by about 50% and flights are vastly
safer. It's now quite easy to travel between all large US cities by air. By
and large customers got what they asked for.

The down side is that aircraft and airports are crowded (better utilization)
and there's far more security (leaving aside TSA issues there's no obvious
alternative to keep terrorists off flights).

Maybe the answer is just to adjust our expectations a bit. If I get to my
destination in one piece and roughly on time the airport does not make a lot
of difference. It's not as if most of us live there.

~~~
ajmurmann
Your argument is besides the point since all of it applies also to other
countries.

------
hiphipjorge
> San Francisco International Airport was been named the best airport in North
> America for customer service by Skytrax

I'd buy that. Well, except for the fact that some light rain will cause 4
delays on all flight. But apart from that, it's a pretty good airport.

~~~
eip
San Jose is nicer in pretty much every way.

~~~
mahyarm
Most local airports without as much traffic tend to better.

Small town airports tend to be great, but expensive to fly to/from. No lines,
very clean, almost no walking, plenty of seating, nice staff, pretty nice
interior, cheap parking. Even if the airport was old, the lack of bullshit is
great.

------
kazinator
Last summer I was patted by some morons at an American airport. They thought
I'm hiding something under my T-shirt on my shoulders. It was just my bones
draped by the cloth: the old scapulae and clavicles. Distance running man; try
it!

------
sandworm101
For counterpoint, to see what is possible, check out YVR. Like most US
airports it is almost 50 years old, subject to an identical security regime
(including American immigration people as canadians pre-clear US immigration)
yet is a fantastic airport.

[http://www.sleepinginairports.net/2015/best-airports-
world.h...](http://www.sleepinginairports.net/2015/best-airports-world.htm)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airpor...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airport)

------
chrismcb
Seems like the title sound be "why do people hate airports outside of China"
or maybe "why do people hate old airports" USA doesn't have a monopoly on
security theater, nor do they have a monopoly on long lines. Can our airports
be better?absolutely but can so airports around the world. Banning TSA would
be a huge step in the right direction.

~~~
howlingfantods
I'd avoid conflating South/East Asia with China. The only airport the article
cites in China is HK airport, and even that is ambiguous. In fact, actual
Chinese airports are notorious for delay.

~~~
dasil003
Yeah I was just gonna say, I went to Beijing for the first time, and as I was
leaving I thought to myself, "well the line is long and insanely compacted
(people crowding forward into every open nook and cranny within the cordon),
but at least it's not going to have the American bullshit".

And I was right in the sense that they don't make you take your shoes off or
put you through the naked photo machine. However, the inconspicuous bag
inspector literally disassembled my entire backpack, dumped everything out on
the table in the most disorganized fashion possible, then literally walked
away without saying a word leaving me 10 minutes to repack everything. That
and they took away my post-security water on the jetway boarding the plane
(apparently they only do this on US-bound flights though).

~~~
ajmurmann
I really don't understand the post-security water issue. I got in an argument
with a security person at the Hong Kong airport over this. They claimed it's a
requirement by the US government and showed me some document that described
rules similar to what we see in the US. So I argued that they are reading the
document wrong and got rather worked up till my wife started to pull me away
because she was afraid I would get arrested.

------
Scoundreller
Funny coming from the BBC. UK airports might be worse. Passport control to
enter AND exit (common, but not in US). Not accepting EU visas. Recheck of
carryon bags for transit passengers, with more stringent liquids requirements
than US/Canada. Higher prices.

~~~
ajmurmann
Yes! One of the slowest immigration lines I've ever been in was in Manchester.
They processed all EU citizens before proceeding any non-EU travelers and were
incredibly slow.

------
eosrei
I was stuck in Singapore's Changi Airport on a 22hr layover once. It is the
best: multiple gardens, hotels, free movie theaters, free Xbox 360 &
PlayStation 3, a swimming pool, and artwork everywhere. US airports can't
compare.

------
mjt0229
Fair, but Heathrow and Tegel and De Gaulle aren't exactly paradise.

~~~
davidw
A portion of De Gaulle collapsed and killed four people:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle_Airport#Coll...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle_Airport#Collapse_of_Terminal_2E)

And they also stole a huge bag of my stuff there, years ago.

~~~
rdtsc
That was the nice part too. The old crapy dirty 70's contrete was the one left
standing. But yeat given the choice I would avoid CDG.

------
cha5m
The TSA is just an expensive, time consuming infringement on civil liberties.

