
Have you ever smoked weed? Answer this question and you could be banned from US - dgudkov
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pot-border-banned-waiver-1.3752278
======
skyrw
Summary: Don't confess to a federal crime when being interrogated by border
patrol and expect zero consequences. This applies to all nations.

~~~
tajen
Aaaand this is why I don't even want to try visiting US, despite being offered
to talk at conferences about my product. I'm using a false name on Facebook
and HN, which makes me afraid of any agent asking "Have you ever impersonated
someone" or "Have you ever committed a crime against US interest". I just
dread the TSA. Plus I carry nudes on my laptop, which despite the male models
probably being above 24, I can't prove aren't below 18, and even though I
could clear my HDDs, I might as well do business with a freeer country.

The only limitation is, given I'm French and we've just had our "9/11"-type
terrorist attacks, I'm afraid we might progressively set up the same extreme
police system. If we do so, I'd like to apologize in advance in the name of
the people of my country...

~~~
mrgordon
While I'm no fan of the TSA, this seems quite extreme. The chance they would
look at your hard drives is nearly 0% and most countries have some insane
policies that outsiders could harp on as a reason to not visit and to "do
business with a freer country." To each their own, but avoiding a major
country because their border agents hassle someone every now and then seems
way too limiting to me.

Keep in mind that the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg has
condemned France over their use of torture in pursuing marijuana convictions.
France will also somewhat arbitrarily define cases as "drug use" vs
"trafficking" since possession for use is ill-defined. Many consumers get
tried under trafficking laws because they get caught purchasing, for example,
and under trafficking laws they will get much more serious penalties including
being banned from the country in many cases. Don't forget you can also be
detained for four days without a lawyer while they investigate.

Some more info at [http://www.drugtext.org/European-Drug-
Laws/chapter-4-france-...](http://www.drugtext.org/European-Drug-
Laws/chapter-4-france-drug-use-and-supply-illegal-possession-undefined-
situation-unsatisfactory.html) if you're interested.

France has a lot of great things going for it so I try not to let bad laws,
border agents, etc. spoil my time there.

~~~
slgeorge
This is a bit of a false equivalence.

As he's French he broadly has no choice but to live within the laws of his
state - he can campaign against them but for as long as he's there he's under
them, and moving to another jurisdiction is not that easy. Whereas, he chooses
to go to the USA and fall under their border controls - he's making the
statement that he won't choose to do so.

While he's likely to be unnoticed by his existing state, border controls have
a much higher chance of capturing interest and the outcomes are uncertain (at
least in part because you're not a citizen and the way of working will feel
'foreign')

While it does sound a bit extreme, I can personally say I don't like visiting
the USA any more because of the border controls. I'd probably try ad put
business in Canada because of the extreme way in which the USA now treats
foreigners. It can be very uncomfortable, difficult and aloof. Unless you've
actually come under the purview of the TSA as a 'foreigner' it's hard to have
a sense of how poorly they treat people and the general arbitrary nature of
control [0].

[0] That is not to say that other countries are much better. As a UK citizen
I'm pretty clear that we treat external people coming in completely
differently to our citizens - and having been involved in visa applications
for employees have found some of the ways in which "my government" treated
people totally embarrassing.

~~~
tajen
You've both captured my situation properly, and I didn't know what mrgordon
mentione. Thank you!

------
Jugurtha
I remember a friend asking me if I could check the visa application process to
the U.S. because he didn't really understand. The form was DS 160, if I
recall.

Here is a sample:

[http://photos.state.gov/libraries/jamaica/231771/PDFs/DS-160...](http://photos.state.gov/libraries/jamaica/231771/PDFs/DS-160%20Instructions.pdf)

Some questions from page 38:

"Are you coming to the United States to engage in prostitution or unlawful
commercialized vice or have you been engaged in prostitution or procuring
prostitutes within the last 10 years?"

"Do you seek to engage in espionage, sabotage, export control violations, or
any other illegal activity while in the United States?"

"Do you seek to engage in terrorist activities while in the United States or
have you ever engaged in terrorist activities?"

I mean, I'm sure there's a rationale behind these questions.. maybe in a
"plausible deniability" way.. but they're funny.

The problem is that sometimes, one cannot know if they violated a law. There
was a video of a lawyer asking people not to talk to the cops where he
addressed this point.

~~~
zaatar
Lying on DS-160 was the reason the Feds managed to initially arrest 9/11
attacker Zacarias Moussaoui [1]. It is _significantly_ easier for cops to
prove you lied to the US Government and detain/deport/ban you from entry if
you're an alien than to try to prove criminal intent, etc. and that's why
DS-160 has all those seemingly weird questions.

[1]
<[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui#Capture>](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui#Capture>)

~~~
undersuit
>Lying on DS-160 was the reason the Feds managed to initially arrest 9/11
attacker Zacarias Moussaoui.

"Because it was clear at that point that Moussaoui was in the country
illegally, the INS agents arrested him."[1]

[1]
<[https://oig.justice.gov/special/s0606/chapter4.htm>](https://oig.justice.gov/special/s0606/chapter4.htm>)

Yes lying on the DS-160 is probably a reason to arrest Zacarias, but that is
not what happened.

------
sremani
The headline is click-baity, he can still come to USA but has to apply in
advance to a costly permit. Canada throws similar hissy-fit when dealing with
Americans or Green card holders with DUI record.

~~~
__s
DUI record isn't the same to me admitting that at some point after the age of
18 I was riding a bike with a non zero blood alcohol level

~~~
sremani
They are not the same but the situations are similar. Both are actually insane
at different levels.

------
walrus01
When dealing with CBP/ICE don't even acknowledge that you are aware of the
_existence_ of something called weed. Seriously, they have no sense of humor.

~~~
13of40
You should just say, "How should I know? Am I a botanist? I've smoked a lot of
stuff."

------
x3n0ph3n3
Yet another reason I believe it is not unethical to lie to bureaucracies.

~~~
paulddraper
I'm sure the feeling's mutual.

~~~
x3n0ph3n3
Bureaucracies do not have feelings.

------
BrandoElFollito
Welcome to the court-based country which is the US. You are expected to be
serious when answering on the visa waiver whether you will kill people when in
the US, and some more ridiculous questions like this one. Why? The only reason
I can imagine is that when you are arrested after blowing up a bomb you cannot
say that you did not expect this to be illegal. I am missing a question on my
plans to run naked on the street or publicly pee.

------
ap3
Who maked the call for the ban? Is it the border agent or did it go through a
process?

~~~
vkou
AFAIK, any border agent can place a five-year ban on you for any reason,
including no reason whatsoever.

The moral of the story is that you should always follow the unwritten rules of
interacting with border agents (Which you always should, when interacting with
any people who have absolute power over you, and no accountability.) And hope
that you don't run into this guy.

[http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ex-u-s-
office...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ex-u-s-officer-s-
border-bans-to-be-reviewed-1.997985)

~~~
jdavis703
And what are these "rules?" Don't do or say anything stupid?

~~~
vkou
Answer the question they asked, not the question you think they asked. Don't
volunteer any extra information. Don't admit to any criminal activity. Know
the exact address that you are travelling to. Take off your hat, and your
sunglasses. If it's dark, and you are travelling by car, turn on all of your
cabin lights.

If you have anything interesting in your passport, or in the luggage they
searched, you may be asked questions that will try to catch you in a lie. "So,
how do you like working at Facebook?" "I work for Microsoft, Sir, it's pretty
good."

Be polite and deferential, but not friendly. Keep your answers short and to
the point. Be white. Don't look nervous.

Follow these simple steps, and the overwhelming majority of the time, you'll
be just fine [1].

[1] If you are traveling as a speaker to a conference, or for a work function,
my understanding is there is a separate set of incantations that you should
invoke.

------
gozur88
It's not that he can't enter the US. It's just that he has to file an extra
form and pay a fee.

The legal situation around marijuana in the US sucks. It may be legal at the
state level where you live, but it's still very much illegal at the federal
level and in theory you can spend a year in federal prison on the first
offense for any amount.

------
Udik
On a side, and just out of curiosity: has there been any thought in the US so
far about prosecuting the doctors that liberally hand out certificates for the
use of medical cannabis? Because it is clear that anybody can get one, so the
doctors must be making a false declaration.

------
fu9ar
"I will neither confirm nor deny any prior illegal activity."

~~~
jdavis703
And then they can just send you on the first flight back home.

~~~
Const-me
How about “No, I don’t remember doing anything like that, ever” ?

~~~
biafra
The form only has check boxes for yes or no. And the right answer for all
questions is: no If you want to get into the country.

~~~
Const-me
If a person lies to a US government, that’s a felony:
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001)

If I were that Canadian, I probably wouldn't lie either.

~~~
biafra
If you need to lie on that form, maybe you should not try to enter the US. I
never tried, but I'd be curious to know what happens if you say yes on any of
these questions. Are you still allowed into the US? Which questions are ok to
answer with yes?

