

Westerners so convinced China is a dystopia they'll share anything confirming it - detcader
http://qz.com/168705/westerners-are-so-convinced-china-is-a-dystopian-hellscape-theyll-share-anything-that-confirms-it/

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esbranson
China is not a dystopia. China has abandoned Communism and adopted a
Capitalist economic system with Socialist policies, like Europe and the US,
and as a result it is entering what European-Americans consider 19th/20th
Century standards of living. The Chinese don't want to accept that they have
been living and dying for a lie (Communism), the US doesn't want to admit
China is not a failed state.

Chinese citizens have similar civil rights to those of 19th Century European-
Americans. Americans have only been able to circumvent "cop immunity" since
Monroe v. Pape (1961) and Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents (1971). Americans
can take such civil rights lawsuits to a bench of regular people, but
Europeans must still take such accusations to prosecutors' golfing buddies
(judges), if at all. Its almost impossible to convince a jury; convincing a
judge is even harder. Chinese and Europeans have similar civil rights
protections, in other words.

China and Europe both have freedom of speech guarantees. In China, just like
Europe, you have freedom of speech until you say something a prosecutor or cop
doesn't like. (The rationalization of this aspect is dizzying.) Most of Europe
has traditionally banned political parties they don't agree with; for example,
the Communist Party has traditionally been banned in post-WW2 Europe (Germany,
most notably), just like China has banned non-Communist parties in practice.
Note the US never banned the Communist Party; it only castigated its members
in public shaming ceremonies. (California banned display of red flags in the
1920s, but this was overturned in Stromberg v. California in 1931, around the
time Hitler rose to power.)

China is a democracy reminiscent of 19th Century European-American
democracies. The United States Senate was not always directly elected, just
like the National People's Congress. And the United States President and
European Union President are still not directly elected, just like the Chinese
President and Premier. China is like the US and sometimes allows recall
elections (technically); Europe does not. Neither Europe nor China allow what
Americans consider to be ballot initiatives (where the people vote on the
proposal). Neither China nor Europe elect very many government officers; in
the US not only are sheriffs, prosecutors, clerks and treasurers often
elected, but sometimes even judges are (for example in California).

And my understanding is that living and economic conditions in China are
similar to the 20th Century US. For a select few its great, for most its
barely livable, and for many its cruel and usual punishment. And in Europe,
China and the US, the Law © is the most expensive book you have memorized but
never read, and the education system blunts and rejects political undesirable
tendencies, after which your employer (in collusion with your
landlord/bank/household registration office) takes over.

Time, CBS News and the Huffington Post are not representative of all
Westerners, nor is the Chinese Communist Party representative of all China.
American media corporations are just trying to punish China for kicking them
out of China. For which I say Good for China.

~~~
orf
You can't argue that Europe has the same freedom of speed guarantees as China,
that is absurd. Communist parties are only banned in some countries and it is
at their discretion that they are enforced.

I had a Chinese exchange student live with me for a few days in 2008 and my
dad asked him probing questions about the tiananmen square massacre. The guy
had no idea at all, or at least was too scared to talk to foreigners about it.
That's hardly on par with most of Europe

~~~
esbranson
19th/20th Century Europe and America. Yes, I argue China has the same freedom
of speech guarantees as 19th/20th Century Europe. At least. I think we can
agree on that.

I also argue discussing democracy in China is like discussing racial and
religious supremacy in Europe. You have to be very careful what you say, else
you might find some investigators talking with your family and coworkers about
your beliefs, or you might find it hard to do business (like your comedy
routine) in certain cities. And only if a European government cannot ruin you
financially and socially will they arrest you. Like China. Yes, it happens.
Like the Chinese, Europeans rarely hear about it, but it happens. Repeat after
me: "freedom of speech is not absolute."

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EdwardDiego
Okay, so poorly researched stories and confirmation bias aside, did the author
mean to imply that China's air pollution issues are more about belief than
fact?

My wife would like to live in China, but every time we look at the PM25 / PM10
for the cities where I can easily get work, it looks genuinely life-
threatening - I'm an asthmatic.

~~~
icegreentea
I don't think so. I think the gap between the really shitty reality, and the
hell on earth "news" reported is all the author means to point out.

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devilshaircut
"Does that mean that accuracy and accountability don’t matter for click-bait
pieces about China that “feel” true?"

I suppose this photograph had the opposite effect on me. The moment I saw it
surface on my FB feed, I had the immediate, almost impulsive, thought that
this had to be a fabrication. I lumped it into the "Pope calls Genesis a
metaphor" category.

I don't mean to sound like I disagree with the journalist though. Actually I
would agree 100% that "Chinese dystopia" seems to be an over-represented theme
in American news media.

