
Sonic ‘Attacks’ Show Us How Susceptible Our Brains Are to Mass Hysteria - tptacek
https://slate.com/technology/2018/02/cubas-sonic-attacks-show-us-just-how-susceptible-our-brains-are-to-mass-hysteria.html
======
GVIrish
While it is possible that this whole incident was due to some sort of shared
hysteria, I don't think one can elevate that to the most plausible explanation
for a few reasons:

1\. This has a national security and counterintelligence aspect to it. For
that reason, there may be evidence that proves the source and nature of the
attack(s) that is classified.

2\. This article keeps going back to 'it's impossible for an acoustic device
to cause brain damage'. This assertion is coming from a guy who doesn't seem
to be an expert on that particular subject. And just because he is not aware
of such a thing, doesn't mean "it's impossible'.

3\. A lot of focus is on the very specific language of an 'acoustic attack'
but the incident could have been caused by microwave radiation. Indeed in the
60's US intelligence has uncovered Russian listening devices that were
activated remotely with microwaves. Back then, they could find no definitive
link to any cognitive degradation but who knows what technology may be in play
today.

[http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/25/the-secret-history-of-
di...](http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/25/the-secret-history-of-diplomats-
and-invisible-weapons-russia-cuba/)

There was another story about a similar incident involving 2 NSA employees who
were deployed to a clandestine location who experienced nervous system disease
afterwards.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/was-a-spys-
parkinsons-d...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/was-a-spys-parkinsons-
disease-caused-by-a-secret-microwave-weapon-
attack/2017/11/26/d5d530e0-c3f5-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.7ab6e079f8ea)

Maybe these were all imagined incidents or something else is at play but I
wouldn't dismiss it as hysteria out of hand, given what is publicly known.

------
PeterStuer
What I don't get is that in the medical specialist's report it is stated that
'the consensus was that the patterns of injuries that had so far been noted
(referring to 'similar to what might be seen in patients following mild
traumatic brain injury or concussion') were most likely related to trauma from
a non-natural source.', and yet Petrie, not having examined the patients
somehow is convinced its all due to mass hysteria and nocebo effects, his
domain of academic interest?

~~~
tptacek
It's not just this source; the FBI also formally reported to Senate Foreign
Relations that there was no evidence of any "sonic attack". The FBI had
medical professionals examining the patients directly. That's presumably the
story behind the timing of this story.

~~~
gandhium
So what caused 'mild traumatic brain injuries'? Mass hysteria?

~~~
tptacek
Yes, or, more specifically, stress. Mild TBI is diagnosed primarily through
patient-reported symptoms, and is notoriously hard to confirm with imaging.

~~~
kahnpro
Exactly. People working overseas, under stress, start experiencing symptoms
and read about these "attacks" happening. And start freaking out that maybe
they're a victim too.

------
scandox
From the first moment I heard this story I believed it was mass hysteria and I
haven't seen anything that changed my instinct on that. Now, that's just one
man's completely baseless opinion.

What's been interesting is that everyone I have said it to (this is in real
life) has reacted the same way: defensive, cross, irritated. As if they had a
stake in the outcome. It was a stronger reaction than "meh"...it was an angry
response.

I think people find something deeply distasteful about the concept of mass
hysteria.

~~~
Angostura
I think it sparks that reaction for two reasons; 1. it doesn't satisfy our
deep-seated need to find a reason for things 2. It _sounds_ like an off-hand
dismissal with implied criticism of the sufferer.

Perhaps we need to find a way to remove the stigma from mass hysteria. Come up
with with different name perhaps.

~~~
richmarr
I think a name change would be _very_ beneficial, but also, mass hysteria
seems like more than one phenomenon, and at least some of it seems mixed with
hyperbole so unpicking it all might help too.

This instance sounds like one the 'medical' variety of mass hysteria, but
there's also the psychological version where the only symptom is a panic
caused by perception of threat (real or imaginary).

I sat through a lunch talk a couple of years ago by Dr Julia Pierce, a
psychologist who's a specialist in public response to threat. She had an
armful of case studies where people had proclaimed 'mass hysteria' but
actually looking at the evidence people had broadly remained calm and made
normal choices. For example a lot of people talk about "panic" during the
evacuation of the World Trade Centre in 2001 but actually during a lot of
those episodes you find people acting fairly rationally, going back to help
colleagues etc. or descending stairs in an orderly fashion, moving out of the
way for others, etc.

The evidence she presented suggested that the conditions that prompt _actual_
panic are predictable and quite constrained. We're less susceptible to it than
Hollywood might suggest.

------
indubitable
I find it more interesting that the media coverage has been, predictably,
completely one sided and sensationalistic going so far as to strongly imply
'suspects.' It's a great reminder of how, in the past, we slipped into 2 red
scares and it seems we just barely dodged a third in the present.

Perhaps ironically we can attribute this to the internet. It is a great device
for misinformation and FUD, but at the same time it also allows people to
openly point out poor logic, unsupported conclusions, or even false facts.
This diversity of view probably helps any singular view from taking as hold as
strongly as it has in times past -- for better (red scare) and for worse
(climate change).

~~~
jhiska
It's not "interesting" because the media industries have been doing this
everyday for at least 2 centuries. Maybe more interesting is how people keep
getting amnesiac about this.

We can attribute any of it to "the Internet" or "Facebook" or "Twitter"... or
to any other communication platform that lets people reach a wide audience.

~~~
indubitable
One of the big reasons I find it interesting is because I expect there's
probably more news outlets now than ever before, yet we see such a peculiar
level of homogeneity in the views they espouse - perhaps even more so than in
times past. The New York Times has an awesome archive going all the way back
to the 1850s. In fact there's a lot of really great free newspaper archive
resources [1]. And in perusing these archives something that I think has
really changed is that in the past there was a far greater diversity of
published views. By contrast today views tend to be quite uniform except in
archetypical difference, such as partisanship.

In a way I would not be surprised if behind the scenes people were
collaborating with one another, feeling that expressing different views would
undermine the credibility of what's said as different organizations contradict
each other. But ironically I think this sort of homogeneity is playing a large
role in peoples' diminishing trust in media. It makes the news seem very
artificial and orchestrated. And the homogeneity means that when they get
things wrong - as seems to be the case here, it makes the entire industry look
just awful. Being wrong is one thing, being so collectively ill informed as to
not have even meaningfully considered the possibility of a binary truth (it is
a weapon, or it's not a weapon)? That's something far worse.

[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_online_newsp...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_online_newspaper_archives)

------
DDickson
I think the first sentence of this article may hold the key. Weeks after the
President takes office with the mission to undo every accomplishment of his
predecessor, the Cuban embassy is 'attacked' with Cold War era fantasy weapons
with no motive, suspects, or physical evidence. Giving the President the
excuse he needs to revert another of his predecessors key accomplishments, and
return to locked-down relations with Cuba.

Its no wonder the administration has done nothing to de-escalate the
situation, but instead fanned the flames of public speculation, and re-
enforced the claims of the affected embassy workers.

------
yorg
I think the "gluten sensitivity" craze is a perfect example of this
phenomenon.

~~~
maze-le
I don't think its really comparable. The difference to ultrasound sonic attacs
is that celiac disease actually exists, but is very rare. There are clinical
tests that can be executed, and the symptoms of it are also not quite
uncommon. so a bit of confusion in this regard is understandable.

~~~
jfk13
> celiac disease actually exists, but is very rare

I wouldn't call a disease that affects around 1% of the population "very
rare".

It's true that there's a gluten-avoidance fad that has drawn in lots of people
with no medical justification, so that not everyone who demands gluten-free
food is necessarily a celiac sufferer. "Gluten intolerance" seems to be a
fashionable ailment these days, with perhaps varying degrees of validity (and
potential confusion with other issues that may have similar symptoms), but
sources suggest that around 3 million Americans, for example, really do have
celiac disease.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496881/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496881/)
[http://www.uchospitals.edu/pdf/uch_007937.pdf](http://www.uchospitals.edu/pdf/uch_007937.pdf)

~~~
pc86
What is 1% if not very rare? Yes there's a _lot_ of celiac folks around.
There's a lot of people, period. The fact that there are 3-4 million celiacs
in the US does not discount the fact that there are 330+ million folks
_without_ it.

There's nothing wrong with describing a rare thing as rare.

------
qiqing
Excerpt:

> And what’s more: “This is a small, close-knit community in a foreign country
> that has a history of being hostile to the United States,” he says. “That is
> a classic setup for an outbreak of mass psychogenic illness.”

A small close-knit community that is already anxious and on its edge could
also describe Salem right before the witch trials. I remember reading a
hypothesis about some fungal spores possibly causing real hallucinations, but
this could be another possibility.

------
jhiska
It's not a sonic attack (experts agree), but it's very likely not mass
hysteria either (an unproved speculation from a medical doctor not involved in
the investigation).

More research is needed (and not by journalists looking to capitalize on a
popular story).

------
y0ghur7_xxx
> With no details, no motive, and no plausible explanation for what kind of
> weapon this might be, doubts began to surface.

I'm probably reading this wrong, but is the "Sonic weapon" not a real thing? I
thought it is:

[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sonic-
weapo...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sonic-weapon-
attack-recording-cuba-havana-embassy-trump-castro-a8000796.html)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon)

There was also a discussion here on HN, but I can't find it now.

~~~
cvsh
It's a real thing but it can't physically reach some of the places the victims
were said to be affected and it's not known to cause many of the specific
symptoms suffered by the victims.

------
sparkzilla
In case of sonic attack, think only of yourself. Do not panic.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8pGS4cWbHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8pGS4cWbHo)

~~~
cobbzilla
Thank you. I came here to make a Hawkwind reference and I'm pleased to see
someone beat me to it :)

------
kristofferR
Where did the audio of the attack come from then? Was it just random,
completely safe background noice?

------
dtornabene
The slate pitch strikes again.

~~~
jacksmith21006
Sorry do not understand. What does this mean?

~~~
tptacek
They're trying to snark about Slate's notorious tendency to write contrarian
pieces as bids for attention --- those pieces are called "Slate pitches". But
they've missed the mark; it's not "contrarian" to report that something didn't
happen, especially when most sources agree.

~~~
dtornabene
It is absolutely slate-pitch-y to mark that as "mass hysteria", especially
given the way that it originally arose to public attention i.e. through
specific opinions of people in power who themselves had no experienced the
phenonmena. The piece is also just awful, lots of weasel words ie "appears",
"on the surface", plus it side steps that "mass hysteria" is as unlikely to
produce the brain matter changes as a supposed fantastical secret weapon. I'm
the last person to want to whip up war fever by pinning a bogus cause on an
unknown phenonmena. I'm also pretty tired of reading slates garbage.

Also, calling it a "bid for attention" is soft pedaling it I think, its pretty
nakedly about clicks.

~~~
r721
>its pretty nakedly about clicks

I think in this case "mass hysteria" is this particular author's shtick:

>Frank Bures is the author of The Geography of Madness: Penis Thieves, Voodoo
Death, and the Search for the Meaning of the World’s Strangest Syndromes.

His other article on Slate:

"Is PMS Real? Or is it just a figment of our menstruation-fearing culture?"

[http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2016/11/pms_might_be_a_cultural_syndrome_not_a_biologic_one.html)

~~~
dtornabene
hahahahahaha jesus thats both depressing and perfect. what a hack. thanks for
linking i wouldn't have seen it otherwise

------
yakitori
And what caused the mass hysteria? The greedy news media out for clickbait ad
money.

Just off the top my head, I can list a few hysterias caused by the news media
just in the last couple of years... "Trump will end the world" hysteria, north
korea hysteria ( a few times ), "russians hiding in your computers and voting
booths", flu hysteria ( a few time ), ebola hysteria, college rape hysteria,
neo-nazi/alt-right hysteria, asteroid hysteria, AI hysteria, etc.

I'm sure I left out a few.

------
arca_vorago
Bullshit. If the genpop had any idea just how advanced the EMF weaponry the
blackbudget type of orgs had they would shit bricks.

One more thing I guarantee I'll be saying "told you so" in 5-10 years when
something on it leaks, just like the NSA spying before Snowden, and many other
things.

Mass hysteria is real (muh Russians via shareblue, for example) but I really
don't think this is one of those cases.

I love the careful logically falacious setup in the article though, very
masterful. When you finally get to the meat of the claim, by a man who is
selling books on hysteria (nail-hammer problem) he already discredits himself
via the statement: “It is physically impossible to have brain damage caused by
an acoustical device." Well that's just not correct. What else is he obviously
not correct on? Has he seen the evidence from StateDep and CIA? Nope, so he's
making claims without seeing all the evidence. Then immediately the article
transitions from their baseless claim on _this particular incident_ to saying
"oh but even if it's hysteria it can still have real effects ala placebo". See
how subtlely they pass over the problems of their own claim and manipulate the
reader? And then to see the author is also the author of a "everything is a
syndrome" book is just icing on the cake.

Especially funny they mention the Taos hum... if only ya'll had any idea what
that really was... HN isn't ready for such a truth bomb though. (I'll give you
a hint. DUMBs)

~~~
tptacek
I was at a smart grid workshop in VA a year after Obama took office; Steven
Chu was there. It was mostly technical staff from grid operators. We were
there because we'd been doing vulnerability research on smart meters, and a
smart meter vendor had asked us to go.

There was a guy talking exactly like your comment in our working group. We'd
all be talking about some technical detail of, I don't know, off-peak power
storage or something, and this guy would keep interrupting and demanding that
we talk about EMF and EMF weapons.

We all just looked at him like something was deeply wrong with him. Little did
I know that years later I would read this comment and know the truth.

(Schneier wrote about NSA spying. In Applied Cryptography. In the 1990s.)

~~~
acct1771
One time, I read a physics paper, but some of the words were the same as ones
a vagrant fellow was using to try convince me he'd been abducted by aliens the
previous week, glad I noticed when I did.

