
Crispr is less like molecular scissors and more like molecular malware - walterbell
https://thenextweb.com/syndication/2019/07/14/crispr-is-less-like-molecular-scissors-and-more-like-molecular-malware/
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vikramkr
I don't think that the alzheimers consensus is the amyloid beta hypothesis
anymore where it's one protein going rogue. Otherwise interesting article,
though I disagree with this idea that its "less" like scissors and "more" like
malware. They pretty much are molecular scissors, but they're definitely not
malware. They're actually the anti-virus system of a bacteria. Calling them
malware doesn't make sense as a metaphor (they arent Infcetious etc) and just
confuses things more.

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Circuits
Agreed, I think the disconnect here might be that the author has no idea how
malware works or what malware really is.

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vikramkr
If the author had said that crispr based gene drives are malware then I can
see that metaphor working, but I don't think that was what was the case here.
Also, crispr for neuro diseases isn't just knockouts, there's work with single
base change Cas forms and RNA targeting crispr, it's a broad range of tools

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Possiblyheroin
Replacing an inadequately descriptive term with an incorrect term doesn't
really help anyone.

There's an important point in the article about the cascade of unforseen
consequences that occur when you start tweaking genes using CRISPR - and that
it really isn't the straightforward silver bullet many make it out to be.

But the use of the word malware is there exclusively for the clickbaity
headline.

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vikramkr
I'd argue that the molecular scissors argument is actually adequately
descriptive and holds up to a bit of metaphor overextending. You totally can
cut and paste gene sequences using CRISPR. That's the whole point of Homology
Directed Repair (HDR). And much like actual sets and crafts, it is a lot
easier to make crude cuts all over the place than to elegantly glue pieces
back together into a useful end product. HDR still suffers from low efficiency
and so on. And the riot analogy for alzheimers is great, but it doesn't
require you to give up the scissor analogy either. You arent stopping a riot
with scissors, while on the other ha d you totally could stop a riot with
malware (shut down every messaging service somehow so that there isn't any way
to coordinate).

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toufka
The most important part of CRISPR (Cas9) is its ability to colocalize with
specific, arbitrary DNA sequences. It has a second function, which exists is
many many other proteins and is not special at all - to cut double-stranded
DNA. And in fact, that it cuts, is not actually desirable most of the time.
Some of the most interesting uses of Cas9 actually try to get rid of its
ability to cut the DNA (while retaining its ability to home in on specific DNA
sequences).

I'm all for metaphors, but don't be afraid to shift them around when you think
of a better one. (and 'malware' is _not_ a better one...)

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bitwize
It's actually, literally, a molecular antivirus program.

Much like antivirus software scans your computer for a signature of a computer
virus in order to remove it, CRISPR is part of a bacterial mechanism to scan
DNA for the signature of an actual virus and snip it out, preventing the virus
from using the bacterium to reproduce. Biology is NUTS.

~~~
aeternus
Yes, I think a better analogy would be an antivirus program that simply
deletes any file (or more accurately parts of a file) it thinks is suspicious.

.. by no means an optimal antivirus program, but in a sense, it is effective.

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rob74
I think most negative comments here are a bit harsh. Of course the analogy has
its weak points (every analogy has), but what I took away from it is the
following:

\- the DNA is not the Internet, but rather the Code (capital C) that governs
everything in the "city": the buildings, the football fans, the FIFA,
everything - including not only how they behave, but also how they are
created.

\- CRISPR is not malware, but it's (as the article mentions in passing) a
search & replace function that allows you to change the Code, but with the
described limitations - the biggest of which is that every "edit" can have any
number of unintended consequences.

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el_cujo
I agree that every analogy has its weak points, but Crispr's actual function
in cells is the exact opposite of malware, so it just seems like a very odd
analogy to pick. It also creates a sense of fear and distrust that is bad to
associate with a tool that the public really doesn't understand as-is.

~~~
rob74
Of course "malware" is maybe a bad word for it, because it contains "mal"
(i.e. "bad"), which is contrary to the (hopefully) beneficial effects of
CRISPR. But the fact remains that CRISPR is using an exploit to hack the
"Code" I mentioned above, with potentially dangerous results, and if you think
about it in these terms, "malware" doesn't seem so far-fetched anymore...

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Nasrudith
They take a decent technical concept aspect (Crispr is a subversion of
existing cells running itself as opposed to something we must do manually
every time like scissors), an extended metaphor that makes a bit more sense
(bodies as cities of interacting cells - changing one still leaves a whole
interacting system to keep in mind) and then proceed to butcher it needlessly
instead of going anywhere sensible sadly.

Still their start had promise and raises some interesting semantic questions.
Even if Malware is the wrong term for the intended use of the tool it is
certainly what it would be flagged as by the immune system because of where it
treads - just like Anti-Virus software in many cases. Even so Anti-Virus is
such a misleading term for Crispr both from scope collision of computer and
physical viruses. Even if it how it works literally it risks confusion.

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xg15
My (layman) analogy so far was to think of proteins as wires and transistors,
cells as microcontrollers, DNA as the program _of a single microcontroller_
and our body as the result of billions of microcontrollers which all run
(mostly) the same program, interacting with each other.

At least, this gives some appreciation of the complexity of it all.

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bayesian_horse
Also CRISPR is being used for diagnostics, similarly to PCR. It can detect
certain DNA sequences or select regions of the genome for targeted sequencing.

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inciampati
This isn't exactly crispr, it's more an application of Cas9 and friends. These
are sometimes modified. The DNA and RNA binding capabilities of these proteins
is opening up a lot of new possiblities!

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bhouston
Could it ever be used maliciously? Supposedly some countries are poisoning
people via Polonium and inducing heart attacks: [https://citizentruth.org/cia-
heart-attack-gun/](https://citizentruth.org/cia-heart-attack-gun/)

~~~
vikramkr
Anything can be used maliciously. But it's way harder to make an bioweapon an
bioweapon out of crispr than it's worth. And it's not like you'd have any
particular advantage from using crispr, I guess you could load a bunch
targeting some essential gene into an AAV and spray it on people but it's
probably easier just to wait for the flu virus to mutate and do its thing.

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devoply
Life is tolerant to meddling so even idiots like human beings can meddle with
it and it still continues. To a point and then it comes crashing down. Humans
however are too stupid and arrogant to realize this simple fact and instead
are emboldened at each step that they meddle with it and it solves some
problem and does not collapse. However nature also does similar insane
experiments and produces plenty of catastrophe on its own, so maybe we can
justify human intervention as the lesser of two evils. Queer business in a
mostly dead universe which is out to eliminate the little life it has in it,
and so are humans.

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vvdcect
> However nature also does similar insane experiments and produces plenty of
> catastrophe on its own

I'm curious about this, any references for me to read about?

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AndrewDucker
Well, the Great Oxidation Event might count.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event)

