
Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage - tysone
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/technology/instacart-doordash-tipping-deliveries.html
======
rconti
I've never used Instacart, but I've used GrubHub and DoorDash and the like a
couple of times -- I can never remember which one I have an account for, or
which one has the restaurant I want, so it's always a hodgepodge.

But one thing is clear as day. When I use DoorDash, the tip box says "100% of
tip goes to Dasher".

Look, I know all of these places either charge me a service fee, or if I'm not
being charged a service fee, they're marking up the food over list price AND
getting a discount from the restaurant for the extra volume generated by the
company. FINE.

But when you tell me 100% of my tip goes to the tippee and then you take money
out of their pay because I tipped them, that is fraud. Money is a fungible
good. It doesn't matter that "my" money went to the Dasher, and you took
"your" money from them. In fact, that's not even true, because it's all in one
CC transaction anyway. 100% of my tip did NOT go to the Dasher.

~~~
geoelectric
I quit tipping on DD as soon as I found this out about a month ago because
it'd almost always be less than $4.50, so wouldn't affect the dasher's bottom
line anyway. If I start again it'll be cash, but I don't typically carry that
in small bills.

But I'm _pissed_. I've been a heavy DD customer for years and I'm an excellent
tipper. Apparently I've been offsetting DD's costs for quite awhile now
thinking "100% goes to Dasher." Bad enough that I have to tip in advance of
the service--Uber Eats does this right--but they've been stealing those tips
the whole time on top of their "service charge" and "delivery fee". I'd love
to see them _burn_.

It doesn't take a class action--last I saw comparative stats they were only
doing well in the Bay Area, San Jose specifically, and were rock bottom of the
market share elsewhere. We probably just need one educated market to trash
this strategy.

~~~
cialowicz
You quit tipping, but you haven't stopped using the service?

~~~
rosser
They quit tipping through the service, and, if I'm reading correctly, instead
zero the tip at checkout, and tip in cash on arrival.

~~~
meroes
I think he means he can't be that outraged if he's still using them.

~~~
TAForObvReasons
He's outraged by this specific issue and found a workaround. You can be upset
by a specific company policy yet still find it better than the alternatives

------
resters
Why doesn't this problem exist when I order something from Amazon? Because
there is no absurd idea that I should be tipping the UPS guy or anyone else
involved in fulfilling my order.

It makes much more sense for InstaCart to simply collect star ratings and
offer bonuses for the employees who are going above and beyond.

Considering how often the shopper has to call me about replacements, parking
outside my building, etc., Instacart should be focusing on fixing the
inventory issues and logistical issues, not trying to shame me into paying its
employee an extra $5 at every turn.

Instacart charges for delivery and often marks up the prices of the items. I
don't like being shaken down via a default tip when trying to check out. It's
extremely irritating!

~~~
bluedino
It's not uncommon to tip your UPS/FedEx delivery person, or your USPS carrier.
At least around the holidays.

~~~
wuliwong
I would guess that the ratio of the number of tips to the number of deliveries
for UPS/FedEx/USPS is orders of magnitude lower than for
Instacart/DoorDash/etc.

~~~
kevin_b_er
And those delivery drivers are paid a wage, unlike the $0.80 per hour w/o tips
from instacart.

~~~
lexs
Isn't there a minimum wage even for tipped workers at like 2$ something?

~~~
astura
These types of "gig workers" aren't employees, they are independent
contractors so minimum wage doesn't apply to them.

~~~
lexs
there is a term for that in German "Scheinselbstständigkeit" basically
"pretend independence", seems more like a loophole than anything else

------
chaboud
I have a simple answer: I will never use Instacart or Doordash again, ever.
Even if they change their policy, they are dead to me as companies, and any
company that acquires them is similarly dead to me.

If you're out there, upstart disruptors, know that pulling stuff like this
will cost you at least one customer for life. I'm sure that there are more
people like me.

~~~
mhb
_Instacart workers have urged customers not to boycott the company, which
would cut even further into their earnings._

~~~
jedberg
This is exactly why I don't boycott WalMart. Because as abhorrent and their
policies are, the last thing I want to do is put some poor person barely
scraping by out of a job.

The solution here is not to boycott these places, it's to use your power to
lobby for better laws to protect the workers, which will apply evenly to all
companies, including future companies that might try to take advantage of
people.

~~~
jbarberu
Or you could support a competitor that treats their employees well, giving
them more business so they can expand their business and hire the people that
eventually leave Walmart...

This is why I avoid Walmart and Amazon, even if it hurts my bottom line.

------
coffee
> ...couriers have braved the elements, gotten by on meager wages and dealt
> with annoying customers, growling dogs and fifth-floor walk-ups, all for the
> chance of a big tip from a happy customer.

This is not how I experience it working, in my area, with sites like GrubHub
and the others.

They ask for a tip UPFRONT, before delivery.

I usually like to tip cash (for obvious reasons). There is an option for this,
and the problem starts when I select this option.

My food takes an extra 1+ hour to arrive. It's cold. Soggy. My family has been
waiting for around 2 hours total.

Interestingly...

This NEVER happens when I tip upfront through the app.

Complaining to their support line never fixes the issue, so I started asking
the delivery drivers about this.

What did they say?

Apparently, the app flashes the delivery drivers how much tip you've entered
BEFORE they decide to take on your delivery.

So my order, when I pay a cash tip, simply doesn't get picked up by any
delivery driver and it's at the restaurant getting cold and soggy.

When I tip upfront, it gets delivered in a normal timeframe.

I tested giving a BIG tip upfront, guess what?

My order came faster than it ever has in the past. I asked the driver and he
flat out told me he saw the big tip and rushed to grab this delivery.

~~~
Game_Ender
This sounds like fine model to me, pay more, get faster service. The key
should be transparency and a minimum service level, ie. they should lay enough
by default that every order will get picked up.

~~~
supershazwi
I'm not a customer of either services since I'm not in the US but tipping
upfront before you even receive the service seems a little odd. Doesn't one
tip for getting an outstanding over-the-top customer service and in order to
do that, one should undergo the entire workflow till receiving the goods?

~~~
sjjshzvuiajhz
In the US tipping is standard, not for over-the-top service.

In general, higher pay for better quality goods and services is part of a
negotiated sticker price. Tipping is the anamoly here. In the DoorDash
context, if the user were given the option to tip after delivery, they’d most
likely just forget about the app once they got their food and never tip. So
there’d be little incentive for the drivers to work hard for a good tip.

~~~
pkaye
What if you give a good tip first but then the delivery turns out late?

~~~
sjjshzvuiajhz
Complain though whatever feedback mechanism the app gives you. Same thing
you’d do if the food didn’t show up at all.

On the other hand, what does the driver do if they go above and beyond to give
you great service, but then you don’t tip?

~~~
pkaye
With prepayment of tip, we have no idea how the service will be. It would make
sense to just roll it into the base cost.

~~~
sjjshzvuiajhz
The server doesn’t know whether you will follow through with a tip when they
decide how well to serve you. The information asymmetry goes one way or the
other.

------
towelr34dy
"Tipping Policies"

"deceptive tipping policies"

Huh...

Somehow I think if I set up a tipping jar for the government and kept the
majority of the funds, it would be quickly called 'stealing'. Actually, I
think in California since the amount is over $10k, it's grand theft.

Welcome to the era of legislative capture, when the criminal activities of a
corporation are discovered, "journalists" frame the situation as "big company
make mistake, people get upset, people should figure it out and want
transparency" and then seem to want to compare this to our outrage culture.

lol

What transparency could you trust from someone who stole from you?

Outrage seems to carry a connotation of being a bit of an overreaction. And a
strong reaction.

People aren't hurling insults because of this.

They are angry. And rightfully so. They were stolen from. The article makes no
sense unless you believe it was a 'mistake of deceptive practices'.

There's not even a single mention of restitution or ANYTHING that wouldn't
have been approved by a corporate PR team in an effort to appear 'unbiased'.

If crack dealers had this type of coverage, we'd be hearing about 'Possible
loud sounds that could be confused with guns that happen when certain issues
arise. Maybe we should ask for transparency to see what is going on?'

~~~
sitkack
Baffler quality truth right here.

------
AlexandrB
Not to be pedantic, but why isn't "Instacart" being annotated as "Instacart
(YC S12)" in this latest round of stories? Seems only fair.

~~~
jameslevy
You don't see this for the YC startups that have become very mainstream.
Reddit is mentioned on a front page HN headline right now
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19087558](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19087558))
without mention of its batch.

~~~
lucb1e
This is the second time I heard of instacart and it took me a minute to
remember what they do (and the first time I heard of doordash), but reddit is
much more well-known. Not sure it's that they're so commonplace.

------
duxup
It's terrible, but really it fits what these businesses do fundamentally.

They provide a service, and and push as much risk off of the copany and onto
their contractors as possible.

Slow sales? Contractor just doesn't get paid.

Injury? Contractor's problem, he's gone, who is next?

The idea that they'd dip into the pot further to ensure more money for the
company isn't much different than the rest of the risk they put onto the
contractors.

It's not right, but it is how these companies operate fundamentally.

~~~
crushcrashcrush
When the pendulum swings very-left (as it will, American politics follow a
tick-tock partisan pattern) I believe someone (AOC?) will crack down on
"contractor" companies - they're not paying payroll taxes. Not a good thing.

~~~
0xffff2
What's to crack down on exactly? The government still gets all its taxes. It
just gets all of it from the employee (sorry, "contractor") rather than
getting half each from the employee and employer.

~~~
EpicEng
"Crack down" doesn't necessarily mean "they're doing something illegal
_today_." They could certainly go after the contractor laws and change them.
It's not all taxes; many protections employees get are skirted via these gig
job companies due to everyone being a contractor.

------
minimaxir
Just in: the policy is now being ended:
[https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/after-...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/after-
scrutiny-instacart-will-end-its-controversial-tipping)

> “Based on your feedback, today we’re launching new measures to more fairly
> and competitively compensate all our shoppers,” Mehta wrote. “Tips should
> always be separate from Instacart’s contribution to shopper compensation.”

> Instacart also said it will compensate workers affected by the previously
> policy. “For example, if a shopper was paid $6 by Instacart, to compensate
> for our mistake, he or she will receive an additional $4 from Instacart,”
> Mehta wrote.

~~~
AlexandrB
_But_ they're cutting shopper compensation at the same time!

> In addition, Instacart also said it would adjust the minimum pay per
> delivery to between $7 and $10 for deliveries for which the driver buys and
> delivers the groceries, and $5 for delivery-only jobs. Previously, Instacart
> guaranteed $10 per delivery, but sometimes included customer tips in that
> amount.

What shady behaviour! I'm guessing Instacart did the math on average tips and
figured out that with a $5 delivery guarantee + tips shoppers would be back up
to around $10 on average.

Edit: Yup, that's exactly what happened.

> “With an average tip of $5, our customers regularly recognize shoppers with
> tips for the services they provide."

------
40acres
I think the fact that a gig economy company with fair (for lack of a better
term) labor practices hasn't shown up yet (to my knowledge) is an indictment
on the lack of vision from VCs and entrepreneurs.

As a recent NYT article showed, we are moving towards a bifurcated economy
split between service workers and high skilled work based on technology. The
gig economy has the correct foresight in merging the two but due to the
shortsighted nature of VCs these companies have built a business model based
on worker exploitation.

It's hard to believe that a balance does not exist that would allow for a
"gig" company to utilize full-time workers and still be profitable.

~~~
kevin_b_er
> I think the fact that a gig economy company with fair (for lack of a better
> term) labor practices hasn't shown up yet (to my knowledge) is an indictment
> on the lack of vision from VCs and entrepreneurs.

Their vision is likely well aligned. The gig economy metes out little bits of
work to a new underclass, while shifting nearly all risk onto them. This
improves profit flow. The gig economy bypasses the American Labor Movement.
The mandatory binding arbitration bypasses the Rule of Law.

The VC's vision is excellent. They extract work out people who don't have much
recourse, except they've figured out slavery isn't needed. You just need them
hopeless enough to work for nothing, because they can't get anything else.
Since they don't need to be paid minimum wage, they don't get benefits, and
you can nickle and dime them because you've bypassed the rule of law, you get
a lot of advantages over a normal company that has to play by the classic
rules of treating humans with any kind of dignity and the laws they got passed
to do so.

The app concept makes things faceless so the company can make profit by making
someone else do the hard work and take the risks.

~~~
sitkack
It sounds like the mirror of a pay-day-loan. Maybe Uber could have all
contractor banking done via pay-day-loans? I can only think that there needs
to be a business need to take money _out_ of a contractors bank account in
real time.

------
a-wu
DoorDash is extremely helpful for me because I'm disabled and can't cook so
it's really convenient for me to be able to order food for delivery when I
don't have a caregiver around to cook food for me. I'm extremely disappointed
by DoorDash's policies but because of my circumstances I can't just boycott. I
live in a college town too, so most DoorDash drivers are students who are just
barely getting by, so I'll be tipping my drivers in cash from now.

~~~
newfriend
There are plenty of other delivery services. Grubhub, UberEats, and Caviar are
a few off the top of my head.

~~~
a-wu
UberEats/Grubhub don't have the same selection of restaurants in my area and
I'm really not sure how much I trust them to not pull this same thing either.
I will definitely try to order from those services if available but I'll
probably still tip in cash.

~~~
blueline
if ubereats works the same as uber then 100% of the tip actually does go to
the worker

------
ummonk
I've always found this practice outrageous but don't understand why everyone
else is only getting outraged now that Instacart and DoorDash do it...

This is pretty normal in the restaurant and food delivery industry, and should
have been made illegal ages ago.

~~~
gamblor956
That is actually not normal in the restaurant industry.

In restaurants, tipped workers get a base wage and earn tips on top of that.
If they don't hit minimum wage from that base wage+tips, the restaurant has to
pay them so they at least make minimum wage. If you have an issue with the low
base wage, take it up with your local legislature.

InstaCart and DoorDash are doing something different: they're promising a
minimum payment to drivers but that minimum payment is _in lieu of_ a tip. A
or B, not A+B=C.

------
ag_dart
Worked as a PM in one of these Gig companies. Almost all companies do this
(Not saying that it's right or wrong). They way they frame it to 'contractors'
is "We will make sure you get enough orders to earn $10 in 1 hour. Where that
$10 comes from is not something that we care about. If the customers tip you,
well there's your $10 dollars, if they don't we will cough up the requisite
amount to match the guarantee". There is no such thing as Base Pay as we
understand it in this business model.

------
curiousgeorgio
Or, avoid the whole problem by eliminating tipping altogether (please!).
Charge a fair and honest price where you can compensate contract workers
enough to incentivize them to work for you in the first place (no surprises),
and customers will appreciate not feeling the pressure to figure out what an
appropriate tip might be. Use feedback/ratings to reward exceptional service.

As an added bonus, you eliminate the discriminatory problems of certain
classes of people earning more tips than others for reasons unrelated to
service.

------
supernova87a
What I hate about company behavior is the lack of leadership compass in
knowing what is right and wrong, and instead treating every resource (person)
as an experiment to see what they'll accept or not. And if they don't hear
enough complaints, must've been ok to do.

You can read it in their apologies and the positive spin: "We heard loud and
clear the frustration when your compensation didn’t match the effort you put
forth."

Heard you loud and clear? What is this, like the American Idol voting contest?
Daytime Emmy awards, or public opinion poll, where we have to be asked what we
like to be paid?

A proper apology would be: "We know what we were doing was wrong, and we were
wrong to do it, and we will not do things like that in the future." Not, "it
seems you didn't like what we did, so we'll do something different."

Makes you think they won't apologize for doing fundamentally wrong things
until they get called out by public opinion. What types of issues should a
company know are not ok / illegal, and what issues are subject to public
approval or measuring reception? Shouldn't a CEO know these and apologize
accordingly?

Or maybe that is the role of regulation and government to keep the amoral
corporate compass calibrated.

~~~
ilaksh
It seems to me like the CEO should be fired. Not even from a moral perspective
but just from a PR perspective.

------
pseudolus
Instacart has apparently just reversed its policy. Sometimes outrage does
work.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/business/instacart-
tippin...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/business/instacart-tipping.html)

------
gumby
Too late: I now know how the company thinks about its employees and, frankly
how truthful they are with their customers too.

So more Instacart and no more DoorDash for me. Simply uninstalling the app
won't cause change, so I contacted both Instacart and DoorDash and asked them
to delete my account and all PII and when asked, explained why.

There are plenty of alternatives to both and I suspect we'll pretty quickly
figure out which ones are the creepy assholes and which differentiate
themselves by being decent human beings. For that matter, it's worth looking
at which investors have supported this kind of attitude, as I'm sure this was
discussed in board meetings.

------
atom_arranger
The thing that's actually terrible is that there's tipping on Instacart in the
first place.

Uber didn't used to have tipping, it was added later. I'm not really sure why,
it makes the experience as a user worse, I'm not interested in thinking about
that, just pay the drivers Uber.

------
skrowl
Just tip $0 in the app and tip in cash, just like Uber / Lyft

~~~
irrational
What is this cash you speak of? I jest, but seriously, it has been more than a
decade since I last had cash on me. I assume there is someway that I could get
cash, but it has been so long I'm probably (okay, definitely) not going to go
to the trouble. Saying I should tip them in cash is saying that I shouldn't
tip them.

~~~
metildaa
Seriously? Your going to claim to not know of the existence of ATMs or cash
back at most grocery stores/7-Elevens?

If this is actually your world, I hate to think of the places you'll be
constrained to, especially in the US. Seattle is an oddity on the West Coast
being card friendly, and from what I gather New York is a cash based economy
like most of SoCal.

------
nightcracker
Is this legal? Taking tips or paying less to offset tips is theft. I smell a
class-action lawsuit.

------
keerthiko
Yet another article about tip outrage that skirts the issue of how culturally
propping up universal service industry tipping is propagating and prolonging
predatory wage labor by service providers and restaurants. It's in restaurant
management and DoorDash's best interests to keep the tipping culture alive and
well because they can continue to pay effectively sub-minimum wage by
preserving the tip-based wage flexibility the US legally provides them.

Oh well.

------
jonknee
The kick of the plot here is to not tip on Instacart as you're just handing
money to VCs. Or maybe give the driver cash?

~~~
dragonwriter
Why would you tip on any service where you are already literally paying for
the service of delivery?

It's like tipping has become completely divorced from any purpose.

~~~
choward
It's basically just a way for businesses to advertise a lower price than the
actual price which in turn leads to more profit. Tipping doesn't benefit
workers or customers. It only benefits businesses.

It needs to be abolished.

------
xster
> while others are encouraging customers to leave 22-cent tips — a nominal
> amount meant to show solidarity with workers — through the app and then
> adjust the tips higher after a delivery has been made

This seems like a strangely optimistic assumption to make. I'd imagine it'd be
really easy for instacart to batch shopper's payments and retroactively credit
or debit the shopper's account to always pay a minimum total depending on the
tip.

------
pastor_elm
200 dollars a day delivering packages? Yeah, that's not going to last, sorry.

~~~
saagarjha
Do you think they should be getting more or less?

~~~
EpicEng
Less, obviously.

------
pithymaxim
>Instacart and DoorDash...have figured out a clever way to use customer tips
to lower their labor expenses.

Isn't this how restaurants work..?

~~~
alistairSH
Similar, but not exactly the same. In the case of wait staff, the pay system
is well known and regulated (see below). In the case of the gig workers, it
appears to be up to the employer, unregulated, and not well documented.

In the restaurant industry, a waiter must be paid the standard minimum wage
(for the state/city/etc). However, because tips are expected, the employer is
allowed to pay less IF AND ONLY IF the tips make up the difference.

Made up example: State min. wage: $10/hour State adjusted min. for wait staff:
$5/hour

Tips per hour: $6/hour Actual pay: $11/hour ($5 adjusted + $6 tips)

Tips per hour: $3/hour Actual pay: $10/hour ($3 tips + $7 pay)

~~~
alistairSH
In the gig economy, that $5/hour adjust minimum might not exit (because it's
not regulated), so the scenarios becomes...

Made up example: Employer-stated hourly rate: $10/hour Tips per hour: $9/hour
Actual pay: $10/hour ($9 tips + $1 pay) Tips per hour: $3/hour Actual pay:
$10/hour ($3 tips + $7 pay) And in the very extreme case... Tips per hour:
$11/hour Actual pay: $11/hour ($11 tips + $0 pay)

By avoiding the minimum wage, and backfilling wages with tips, the employer
can theoretically avoid paying ANY wages to employees (and I'm specifically
calling them employees here because I believe most of these gig economy jobs
should be employees, even if not legally required to do so).

------
LumpLump
I see a class action from customers. They gave a person money and it was
stolen by a corporation. It is nothing less then thief. The drivers are not
working for them so why should they be providing their base pay. Besides if
that is the case, each customer should be providing a 1099 to the drivers
based on IRS rules.

------
ggm
Unions and minimum wages and an end to tipping culture. Anything else is
amelioration not really fixing it.

------
SkyMarshal
Does anyone know if these delivery companies can survive in a higher interest
rate environment? They were tried during the dotcom boom too and all of them
went bust.

I've assumed the goal in trying them again was 1) cheap money again, 2) better
logistics tech so maybe they can make better margins this time, and 3) sell to
another established company that can use them as a loss leader, or IPO and
expand into other businesses, before rates inevitably rise again.

Or do they think they have a viable business model even in a higher rate
environment? They seem to be operating on slim margins, hence moves like this
tip stealing stuff, or Instantcart's attempts to get customers to sign up for
a subscription.

------
bluedino
These services need a Robin Hood hacker to take pennies or dollars from the
transactions going to the Instacart bank accounts, and the executives back
accounts, and disburse them equally to the workers.

------
russellbeattie
This is wage theft, but the fact is even with this negative publicity these
companies will continue to steal tips from now on. This isn't the first news
report about it, but DoorDash and Instacart obviously don't care.

They're not so dumb as to not realize how this might be a public relations
'challenge'. They realized it would be seen negatively, did the math, and
decided that the general public would be apathetic and the supply of people
desperate for work would continue to provide them with enough deliverers
regardless of how badly they treat them.

The only solution to this is legislative. The whole 'gig' economy is
capitalism gone mad, where large corporations take advantage of the most
vulnerable people in society for cheap labor without benefits or stability.
Governments need to crack down on this before it gets bigger than it already
is.

------
kartayyar
I switched from Instacart to Goodeggs in large part because they say they pay
their employees a fair wage and there is no option to tip.

------
ForHackernews
Always tip cash to service people.

[http://tipthepizzaguy.com/](http://tipthepizzaguy.com/)

~~~
sevenf0ur
> Always tip cash to service people.

It's more nuanced than that. Do you tip pest control, plumbers, locksmiths,
that guy that fixes the spring in your garage opener? As a consumer, I'd
rather pay a fixed price and not worry about carrying enough cash to
supplement their income.

~~~
ForHackernews
I would say pest control, plumbers and locksmiths are skilled professional
craftsmen who command a high market rate for their labour. I don't consider
those "service" jobs.

At any rate, yes, the tipping system is stupid, but you're not taking a bold
stand against it by stiffing some poor chumps making less than minimum wage.

------
ghostbrainalpha
If you are wondering why these companies think they can get away this
this......

Look at the number of comments here from people who are going to continue
using these service, and work _around_ the problem by tipping the driver cash.

If you believe the leadership is amoral at a company, you have to be willing
to walk away entirely or they will keep doing what they are doing.

------
randomacct3847
Honestly makes me wonder if either of these services are long term sustainable
without basically not paying the delivery workers. It’s less a case of two
companies making huge profits being evil and greedy and more the case of two
overfunded unicorns optimized for growth at all cost with bad unit economics
and bleeding cash

------
bparsons
This is wage theft. These guys will get nailed in one or many of the
jurisdictions they pulled this in.

------
mirimir
Why don't users just tip with cash? If you're a regular user, it's not such a
big deal to have some small bills around. Traditionally, I always tipped in
cash, in case people wanted to keep their tips private.

------
BryanMMMM
I remember Uber used to not encourage tipping. GrubHub and DoorDash should do
the same thing, at least not encouraging, because tipping would cause more
confusions for services like those.

------
habosa
Onoe way you can tell this was no "mistake" is because both companies did it
(and probably others). This was industry-wide wage theft in the pursuit of
profit.

------
NicoJuicy
If you paid with your credit card, can you do a chargeback?

If you tipped, this seems like deceit. And according to me, a good reason for
a chargeback

------
sfilargi
Simple way to beat their system: Always enter $0 as tip in their app and the
tip the driver with cash or your favorite money app

------
fipple
The minute I figured out you can adjust the Instacart fee to zero I did, and
leave a fiver for the delivery person.

------
qiqing
Excerpt: "Some are asking for cash tips outside the app, while others are
encouraging customers to leave 22-cent tips — a nominal amount meant to show
solidarity with workers — through the app and then adjust the tips higher
after a delivery has been made."

I think I might do that from now on.

------
stephenitis
Are Wag and Rover doing this also?

------
crushcrashcrush
This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as
technologists.

Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say
anything?

"This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback."

No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened?
They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage
stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed?

A marketing pro, PR specialist, or frankly anyone in touch with culture and
human beings would have throw up a flare that this is a terrible idea.

What is going on with culture at these companies?

~~~
jonknee
> Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say
> anything?

Who's to say someone didn't? All we know is they decided to steal tips, not
that everyone thought it was a great idea.

~~~
crushcrashcrush
I address that later in my comment...

Is this a function of schooling? MBA programs? Corporatism?

~~~
airstrike
As an MBA, I really take issue with this cynicism of MBA programs. It's not
like we're cold greedy bastards. Stop generalizing. People can make great and
terrible decisions, regardless of grad school degree choice.

~~~
dba7dba
Someone signed off on that feature that stole $4 from a $5 tip given to a
person making minimum wage.

Was that person an MBA graduate or not?

~~~
airstrike
Let's blame all males if that was their gender too!

~~~
dba7dba
I don't care about all that gender stuff.

The point is someone signed off on that. And in a business, it's usually
someone with an MBA.

I can't imagine a business of that popularity having someone making business
decisions without an MBA under their belt.

------
projectileboy
Once upon a time, folks would have organized a union and fought for their
rights. But I realize that's not very innovative or disruptive, or libertarian
or capitalist or whatever the hell the overriding ethos seems to be in Silicon
Valley.

