
Why would a YC company use 99Designs for web design? - MRonney
I'm a web designer and was talking to a YC company about designing their site. Instead of going with me or any designer for that matter, they put a contest up on 99designs with a whopping grand prize of $200. They kindly let me know that they would love for me to enter. Shouldn't a YC company  know better? You would think the most sough-after mentos would tell their startups to invest in good design. Am i missing something here? Has any startup had a good experience designing their site with 99designs or similar sites?
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Matt_Mickiewicz
Co-founder of 99designs here.

For clarification, there's no such thing as a $200 web design contest on
99designs.

Prices start at $599 but you really have to offer $1000-$2000 or more to get a
good result. You browse thousands of finished web design projects here to see
the outcomes that customers get:

<http://99designs.com/web-design/contests?show=finished>

I think the quality speaks for itself... the typical 7-10 day turnaround is
also very helpful for a fast-moving start-up that needs results FAST and
doesn't want to spend time getting multiple quotes/proposals and reviewing
contracts.

------
il
YC companies are told to launch an MVP with a design that's good enough as
fast as possible and iterate from there.

Spending months obsessing over a pixel-perfect design before you know you've
made something people want is the wrong way to launch a startup.

~~~
larrys
"Spending months obsessing over a pixel-perfect design before you know you've
made something people want "

Kickstarter projects as only one example run contrary to that thinking. It is
easier to get people to buy into an idea if it looks professional and is well
executed. This is not saying to throw money out and to "Spend... months
obsessing over a pixel-perfect design"

Hiring a designer instead of 99designs is not the same as "spending months
obsessing..".

This is not to imply that hiring a designer is always appropriate and using
99designs is not. It depends on the particular situation and circumstances
obviously.

As an example google (which PG cited and forgetting it's one data point) is a
service that is free and the results are immediately apparent after using it.
If google were trying to crack corporate america with a paid product that
design wouldn't have gotten them anywhere.

~~~
ebrenes
But you don't even need a product to do a Kickstarter. In fact in most cases
the product doesn't even exist, the only thing that exists is the design and
even that gets changed once the projects is funded sometimes to the chagrin of
the backers when they receive a product that did not meet the original design
expectations. (for example: [http://a.wholelottanothing.org/2012/01/lessons-
for-kickstart...](http://a.wholelottanothing.org/2012/01/lessons-for-
kickstarter-creators-from-the-worst-project-i-ever-funded-on-
kickstarter.html))

So yes, if all you're selling is an idea, instead of a product, then of course
design matters as that's all you've got.

------
pg
<http://blogoscoped.com/files/google-com-history/1998.jpg>

~~~
thaumaturgy
Why are you citing something from 1998 as an example of successful design in
2012?

~~~
pg
The point is not that startups should make sites that look exactly like that,
but that initially they can get away with similarly low production values.

~~~
larrys
"startups should make sites that look exactly like that, but that initially
they can get away with similarly low production values."

I'm assuming that that statement refers to YC startups as opposed to
"startups" who may seek VC or angel funding (who may have limited knowledge
and be more impressed with visual slickness). In that case the design,
usability and appeal of the site matters much more.

~~~
sadlyNess
If a startup gets something done well, no one will notice their uglyness
unless beauty is a non-trivial part of getting their job done, initially.

------
benologist
The difference between good design and good enough design doesn't matter to
almost the entire world.

------
thaumaturgy
YC says they are looking for the next Steve Jobs
(<http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html>). The most oft-cited reason for Steve
Jobs' success was his ruthless attention to detail in all aspects of design,
even when others didn't think it mattered (e.g.,
[http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...](http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=PC_Board_Esthetics.txt)).

I doubt that "the next Steve Jobs" would spend $200 at 99Designs for his
company's first impressions.

~~~
garry
This is a dangerous example of cargo culting. What is right for Apple is not
always right for every startup on the planet.

~~~
thaumaturgy
You're saying this in a thread that was started by pg citing Google as an
example of what is right.

Furthermore, YC is specifically looking for "the next Steve Jobs". _I_ did not
choose Apple as an example of what is right; _they_ did. I merely pointed out
that the advice re: design conflicted with what they claim to be looking for.

------
eriksean
Money is a factor. A company is YC is not flush with cash -- the YC investment
is $11,000 + $3000 per founder.

If you were building a start-up, and had to cut corners somewhere, think about
where you might do so.

~~~
technotony
They get Yuri Milner's $150k too so they are not that broke...

~~~
nedwin
They get this when the finish the program, not at the start.

------
ebiester
We're working with someone who is a friend of my co-founder's, but if we had
no inexpensive contacts with the design community I would consider a very
cheap option. (I don't believe in spec work, but I wouldn't hesitate to hire a
student or offshore, or to use Themeforest for that matter.)

It isn't that I don't respect the results that a great designer can provide,
but I don't have the budget for it. Thus, I'm handling the User Experience,
and depending on the designer to provide the graphics because I am inefficient
in Illustrator and Photoshop, and I don't want to spend the money for legal
copies. (I use Gimp and Inkscape but I'm very inefficient none the less.)

99Designs isn't paying for design as much as paying for a set of graphics that
can be used. Great design is for people who have money. Now, it so happens
that I'm focused on front end work and I've worked with good UX people in the
past, so I am ahead of the game on UX, but this is the trade off that most
startups will make.

------
eli
A great product can easily overcome mediocre web design, but a fantastic
website will never overcome a crappy product.

~~~
wells-riley
Exactly. No one uses Pinterest for this exact reason.

~~~
eli
Snark if you want to, but I believe what I said.

I _wish_ a successful product launch just meant you had to have a great
looking website! That would make my life easier.

------
larrys
"I'm a web designer and was talking to a YC company about designing their site

....a whopping grand prize of $200. They kindly let me know that they would
love for me to enter."

Apparently they think everyone places zero value on their time as well.

I think this also shows a certain maturity level and knowledge of business on
their part regardless of the direction they have chosen. It would have been
more appropriate to show an understanding of how things work and give you a
softer landing. As in "we decided we didn't want to spend money on a designer
and have decided to go another route. Thanks for your time and effort."

By the way I think I figured out who you are and you do nice work. (100
billion beverage cans?).

------
brylong
A lot of times founders don't have the knowledge to know the difference
between a good designer and a bad designer. So I can try to pick one of the 10
I talked to and get one set of designs that I have to pay for or I can go to
99design and get 100 to look at and choose one to pay for. Once I get that
design I can go back to a designer to tweak things if I need to, but more
likely I will reach out to the person on 99 that designed it to help.

------
kinglouis
As a first design, I even use a theme because it has all the tools I need :
different layouts, buttons, boxes, typos...

Here is an example of a theme with the related website : \-
[http://themeforest.net/item/fadelicious-responsive-html-
blog...](http://themeforest.net/item/fadelicious-responsive-html-blog-
portfolio/128793) \- <http://jolishare.com>

I think working with a designer comes later.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
Because sometimes things have to be done to a price point?

If $200 is all they can afford, then so be it. They'll seek to get the best
product for the price. Maybe you would have done a better job, maybe not, but
in either case it doesn't matter. They budgeted an amount and moved on. So
should you. not everyone is in your target market.

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vchoi
It's regional thing too. Depending on the location, the startup's values
places emphasis on different things. An NYC startup probably has more emphasis
on 'smoke and mirrors', and has more of a market to capitalize your design
skills for.

~~~
roycyang
I don't agree with the assessment that NYC startups are more "smoke and
mirrors". I will concede that there seems to be more of an engineering culture
in SV and more of a design culture in NYC but if you look at NYC it's to be
expected.

