
What predicts students’ drinking habits? How much they think others are drinking - rustoo
https://news.vcu.edu/article/What_predicts_college_students_drinking_habits_How_much_they
======
bliblah
Having come from Latin america and studied in a US college, it's always
jarring just how much students in the US drink. Don't get me wrong, whenever I
went back home we had a few drinks and some who definitely had bad habits. But
US Students were just animals, entire bottles of liquor for a single person,
keg stands, passing out for hours just to do it again later tonight.

Frats are definitely the main culprit of spreading this unhealthy lifestyle
but I also find that having the drinking age be so high (21 in the US) really
gives kids this insane pressure to show off or glamorizes it as an "adult
thing" to do.

My family let have a few drinks once I hit 16 during family events and was
regularly going out at 18 without ever feeling the need to get wasted or
having peer pressure of drinking. I learned my limits early on and rarely got
wasted since it just didn't appeal to me.

Meanwhile, the frat parties were the only way to meet girls on campus and
gladly supplied alcohol to anyone who paid. Definitely a recipe for disaster
and after a few mishaps I just skipped out on them entirely.

I think they should just lower the age and put the onus on parents to guide
their kids toward better drinking habits, smoking is way worse for both you
and those around you and the age is 18.

~~~
klenwell
As an American who enjoys drinking, I find it shocking, too. Not that people
do it, but the extent. I've had few experiences as miserable as being
hungover. I've been really hungover twice in my life. After the first time, I
said never again. After the second time, I said I really need to come up with
a system to avoid this.

So I have a simple system I call Proof Points. I think I've shared it here
once before. It's like calorie counting, except you track alcoholic intake as
alcoholic proof (% content x 2) x oz of alcohol (yes, I'm an American). Do
some trial and error and you should be able to find a range where you feel
good drinking but don't end up the next morning not knowing where you are or
even feeling noticeably lousy.

For me, the range is 300 to 400 proof points. Yeah, I can't always know how
much alcohol I'm getting in a drink I order. But I'm able to ballpark it. And
it's been effective for me. Even times when I drink a little too much, I'm
sure it has stopped me from drinking way too much.

Take it with caveats up and down. Don't mistake it for BAC. I never drive if
I'm drinking because, as I understand, most legal limits are now so low,
you'll hit them well before you expect it.

I think this actually would help curb the drinking problem among US students
and all the attendant ills that go along with it. Perhaps if it was offered as
a nicely designed phone app. It could serve as a counter-pressure, more or
less effective depending on the circumstances, to the peer pressure that the
article identifies as a major driver of excess drinking.

~~~
rohansingh
> For me, the range is 300 to 400 proof points.

Am I doing the math wrong, or would that be less than two pints of beer at 5%
ABV? Or does this not work with beer?

~~~
fjsolwmv
One regular drink is 100 of these proof points. A pint of strong beer is 2
drinks.

2 pints of medium beer is indeed a generally good amount to drink in one meal
or before you pause for a while. Obviously how many minutes better drinks is a
factor

------
bluedino
As a 'binge drinker' of 20 years, I'll chime in: Almost all of the time, I
drink at the pace of my drinking partners.

"Hey man, want another beer?" "Need another beer?" "You're drinking slow,
catch up!" "Here's some shots"

On the rare occaisons that I drink on my own, I have 2-3 beers, I tend to
enjoy them a little more. But in a group, I go at the group's pace.

Part of this is because it's very hard to enjoy the company of people who are
much drunker than you. And they won't enjoy you if you are much drunker than
them, so you have to all be on the same level.

~~~
dfxm12
_Part of this is because it 's very hard to enjoy the company of people who
are much drunker than you. And they won't enjoy you if you are much drunker
than them, so you have to all be on the same level._

This has to be a personal preference, right? I very much enjoy people at all
levels of drunk, stoned, high, whatever.

~~~
TallGuyShort
Depends not just on personal preference, but on the drunk friend. My old boss,
who has a very pleasant personality when wasted, and opened up about all sorts
of insights into how work was going? Great. Brother-in-law who starts being a
dick to his wife and kids? Not so much.

------
duxup
When I go to college football games I drive by the fraternities on my way to
park. I'll see quite a few folks sitting on the front lawn seriously messed
up. Usually a buddy or girlfriend standing or sitting with them keeping an eye
on them.

I'm older so at the old people bars or parties, you just don't see folks drink
them self into that state. I assume that sort of filters out to the sad drunk
bars / folks at home as you age. I didn't get it when I was college, I don't
get it now, that doesn't look fun.

They must think their classmates are drinking a lot, but it's pretty clear
it's not nearly as much as they think, as most of their classmates seem
capable of carrying on a conversation and standing up... meanwhile they are
not.

~~~
throw_away
> I'm older so at the old people bars or parties, you just don't see folks
> drink them self into that state. I assume that sort of filters out to the
> sad drunk bars / folks at home as you age.

Survivorship bias

------
bongo662
I went to an SEC school and did the whole fraternity thing during college,
which involved drinking to excess way to much fueled by the fact that living
in a fraternity house with 45 other guys who also wanted to drink that much as
well as the rampant drug use.

It definitly had a negative impact on my health, grades, and focus on school
work and im glad that post college ive cut back to 1 night of moderate
drinking with friends on the weekend however the habits picked up in college
still plague a good amount of my friends from college and Im worried about
their longevity.

Its a particuarly hard issue to solve even moreso in a alcohol fueled
envirionment like a frat where the freshmen joining look up to the
sophmores,juniors and seniors who all have this same binge drinking mentality
and the cycle continues.

Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as it
wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit.

~~~
rjzzleep
> Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as
> it wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit.

Yeah. I don't believe that for a second. Much more interesting is how well you
fare against peer pressure, how much of a social animal you aim to be, and
whether your family was doing it.

If we could argue like that I would just argue the exact opposite based on my
experience. The forbidden fruit we seem to have in common. The distinguishing
factor here seems to be that you were in a toxic environment and I was busy
pestering people on IRC.

There was a lot more porn available in that environment, so that's my burden
to bear.

Let's at least stop pretending that if there were no limits on anything in the
world, everything would be great and amazing.

~~~
athenot
Anecdote but by 12 I had a favorite wine category and by 16 a favorite beer.
Growing up, my dad drank every day _with dinner_ , and the value of taste and
enjoyment was what I learned out of wine & beer, along with the knowledge that
too much starts to impair me. But this discovery was well before my driving
days and within my own family, it wasn't something I had to covet, hide then
binge on in secrecy, without social feedback.

I was not quite 18 when I first got really drunk… at a relative's wedding. I
learned that impaired senses wasn't something I enjoyed and only got drunk one
other time in my life. Also social feedback has kept that particular event
alive in the family.

But my drinking style isn't condusive to getting drunk, as I savor my drinks
really slowly, and for the most part, with meals.

This is a French perspective, though. I've had a very hard time conveying this
idea to people here in the US because it seems ingrained in many people's
minds that the only purpose of alcohol is to get drunk, so either you party or
you abstain: no middle ground. Things are starting to change a bit, moderate
drinking with the goal of savoring is gaining more acceptance and—most
importantly—good drinks are appearing but it's a slow process.

------
teekert
Everybody should try not drinking for 1 month a year... I did it for about 2
years (non-stop). It's pretty hard and it really feels poorly accepted to the
point that people didn't ask me you out because I didn't drink (meaning I was
not fun, and tbh I can imagine it's less fun for drunk people with a sober
person).

Anyway, It was quite an eye opener, also, the times I see this behaviour in
series and movies also became a shock: "OMG I have an emotionally hard time!
Grab the bottle, start slammin', look at me being all depressed but still cool
lookin' like a Marlboro cowboy!". It's so deep in our culture.

~~~
gnulinux
I recently stopped drinking (it's been ~4 months) because I drank >1 bottle of
wine every day for the last 3 to 4 years and I was worried I'll end up being
an alcoholic or damage my liver. I'll be honest: alcohol is an amazing drug. I
know that it's very harmful but no other drug gives me the enjoyment and
calmness alcohol gives. Anyway, I stopped drinking now. When I hang out with
my friends and they're drunk I usually try to get high so I'm not sober. I
don't like weed as much as getting drunk so I can't get very intoxicated, just
a little buzz. But yeah, the social aspect of intoxication is huge! Since weed
is legal where I live (MA) I use it as a "social lubricant" which I suppose is
a safe way to use drugs in general. My problem with alcohol was that I liked
it too much and basically spent most of my time outside of work drunk since it
was fun. I don't think I was addicted because when I stopped drinking cold
turkey, I didn't experience anything bad...

~~~
WhompingWindows
The Eleven Symptoms of Alcohol Use Disorder

-Alcohol is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended.

-There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control alcohol use.

-A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain alcohol, use alcohol, or recover from its effects.

-Craving, or a strong desire or urge to use alcohol.

-Recurrent alcohol use resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, or home.

-Continued alcohol use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of alcohol.

-Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of alcohol use.

-Recurrent alcohol use in situations in which it is physically hazardous.

-Alcohol use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by alcohol.

-Tolerance, as defined by either of the following: a) A need for markedly increased amounts of alcohol to achieve intoxication or desired effect b) A markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of alcohol. Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following: a) The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for alcohol (refer to criteria A and B of the criteria set for alcohol withdrawal) b) Alcohol (or a closely related substance, such as a benzodiazepine) is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms.

The presence of at least 2 of these symptoms indicates an alcohol use disorder
(AUD). The severity of an AUD is graded mild, moderate, or severe:

Mild: The presence of 2 to 3 symptoms. Moderate: The presence of 4 to 5
symptoms. Severe: The presence of 6 or more symptoms. Conclusion: If You Meet
2 of the 11 Criteria for AUD, Reach Out and Ask for Help

~~~
gnulinux
Not sure if this comment was intended for a larger audience, or just me? I
mean as my original comment suggests, I haven't drunk any alcohol last ~4
months, and even before that I don't think I had any of these symptoms.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up!

------
rjf72
Studies like this should immediately make one remember something about
psychology. The replication crisis has devastated any credibility in
psychology. And social psychology, as this study is part of, is the worst hit.
The replication rate for social psychology studies is currently hovering
around 25% [1]. And unlike psychology studies, that result can and has been
replicated. What that means is that if you see any social psychology study -
you would be _much_ more accurately informed if you assumed that what it
'discovered' was false.

So back to this study. Let's imagine some alternative hypothesis. People tend
to overestimate the representativeness of their own personal experience.
People extrapolate their own personal experience, which in turn is going to be
driven by their own behaviors/views/etc, to much wider segments of the
population than they actually apply to. If somebody engages in substantial
drinking, they're going to overestimate the normality of that behavior. And
similar for those that engage in minimal drinking. And all of this is even
more true when you're talking about young college aged kids.

This hypothesis also fully explains otherwise inexplicable 'discoveries' of
this study. For instance the study found no connection between the drinking
habits of the dorms people lived in and their own independent usage. That
contradicts their hypothesis but it was, of course, simply hand-waved away.
But the real problem with this hypothesis is that it doesn't lead to new
research, doesn't sound exciting, and likely would be difficult to publish.
Publication generally entails novelty, and I'm certain this effect has been
extensively studied and reported upon elsewhere. So instead we get clickbait
under the guise of science.

[1] - [https://replicationindex.com/2018/12/28/socpsytb-ego-
depleti...](https://replicationindex.com/2018/12/28/socpsytb-ego-depletion/)

------
maxxxxx
This makes sense to me from my experience. When I was around 18 a lot of
people told stories of all the drinking (and sex) they did. I felt quite some
pressure to drink more because of that.

Later I found out that a lot of these stories were vastly exaggerated. It's
pretty sad that people feel the need to brag about destructive behavior like
doing but that's the way it is.

~~~
fenesiistvan
I can confirm these people :) Most of interesting things in my life happened
when I was drunk. People are boring without drugs...

------
bitwize
Scientific confirmation of well-known folk wisdom. (Not a bad thing.) I
remember being in college and hearing "I'll go shot for shot" and "I can drink
you under the table", etc. Outdrinking the other person was a badge of...
adulthood? Maybe? I don't know. I never got it myself. I tried drinking to
excess and the first lesson I learned was my limits, best summarized by the
old adage "one tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor". The experience was
unpleasant enough to put me off consuming more than two drinks a night.

------
mhb
Do Children in France Have a Healthier Relationship With Alcohol?

[https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/do-children-in-
fra...](https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/do-children-in-france-have-
a-healthier-relationship-with-alcohol/)

------
ben7799
I did the fraternity thing in college as others have mentioned.. I am an
extremely moderate drinker and have been ever since I finished college.
Sometimes as little as 1 drink a month, and in periods where I am actively
working towards a sports/fitness goal I might go months without drinking any
alcohol. I definitely drank to excess in college but never to a huge degree or
constantly. Even in a fraternity that is pretty wild there are a spectrum of
students. I finished school with a 3.7 GPA, though I would say the fraternity
impacted my grades, they might have been even higher. But almost any social
activity would have had an effect. At my school the social scene was pretty
dead outside of greek life.

\- Fraternities & sororities generally have risk management plans/training
these days. I am not sure I think they are more dangerous/less responsible
than underground/unorganized social situations on a college campus. Fraternity
parties often have alumni supervision. Even 20 years ago when I was in school
those parties were registered an inspected. House parties, off campus parties,
hidden dorm parties were far riskier.

\- The European model of letting people drink younger often gets brought up in
these discussions. The only problem I have with that is Europeans on average
drink far more alcohol than Americans throughout adulthood. I am not sure I
believe the kids are more responsible in Europe either when you consider
things like Alcoholic drinks marketed to high school students that would never
fly here.

\- The massive fraternity parties are getting shut down these days on
campuses. My alma mater has banned all drinking on campus and at
fraternities/sororities/social clubs on and off campus, even for
members/alumni who are 21. The weird thing here is they put a loophole in for
sports teams... athletes who are 21 and alumni can drink at sports team
events.. ridiculous.

\- Some of the largest national social fraternities & sororities are requiring
all chapters to ban alcohol among members now

------
opportune
Then once you turn 21, drinking a lot very quickly becomes less cool and more
sad

~~~
beenBoutIT
Our BS drinking laws artificially elevate alcohol's badass status among the
under 21 crowd. Rolling back the drinking age to the modern world standard of
16 would drastically reduce student drinking by equating it with kid behavior.
Nobody's interested in doing highschool shit in college.

~~~
robocat
New Zealand changed the drinking age from 20 to 18 many years ago.

You could look at papers about that to understand what changed.

Although anecdotally New Zealanders drink wayyyy more than Americans (so maybe
hard to compare).

~~~
fjsolwmv
More than rural Americans or urban Americans? I'd assume that rural people
everywhere drink more because there is less else to do, at least before the
modern era of electronic entertainment

~~~
robocat
NZers drink 8.8 litres per person aged over 15 years.

The state with the highest consumption in 2016 was New Hampshire, with a total
alcohol consumed per capita: 4.76 gallons (18 litres).

Wow.

Comes from the following writeup for NZers:

From the domestic figures released by Statistics New Zealand, in the year 2017
[7]:

476 million litres of alcoholic drinks were available for domestic
consumption: 289 million litres of beer 111 million litres of wine 77 million
litres of spirits and spirit-based drinks

By volume, we drink almost three-times as much beer than wine. However, by
alcohol content or standard drinks, 12.6 million litres of pure alcohol comes
from beer, 11.5 million litres from wine, and 10 million litres from spirits.
This totals 34.2 million litres of pure alcohol per year, or 8.8 litres per
person aged over 15 years. On average, this means that every New Zealander
drinks almost 2 standard drinks per day. However, in reality, we know that
rather than New Zealanders drinking small amounts daily, around half of all
alcohol in New Zealand is consumed in heavy drinking sessions.

------
k__
I'm in my thirties and cut down on alcohol.

I didn't drink alone or often, just 2-3 nights a month and most of them it was
only 2-3 beer, but sometimes it was quite much.

Anyway, I'm dieting right now and had the impression that replacing alcohol
with coke-zero at parties would cut down a few hundreds of kcals a month.

------
btrettel
As a lifelong teetotaler, one thing I've consistently found strange is how
much other people seem concerned by me not drinking at social events. This
seems consistent with the conclusions of the study.

Some people want to make sure that I'm "having fun". Apparently "having fun"
is a euphemism for drinking. No matter how many times I tell them that yes, I
am enjoying myself, this doesn't satisfy some people.

Some people seem concerned that because everyone else is drinking, if someone
does something stupid then I'll remember it. I don't know what to say about
this other than that I don't particularly care if you do something stupid as
long as it's not dangerous.

And then there are the people who believe that my not drinking means that I
judge those who do. I don't care if you drink any more than if you put ketchup
on your fries. Sure, if you drank a gallon of ketchup I'd be concerned, but
most people don't, so I'm not concerned.

There are those who'll comment on me as if I'm some sort of oddity. Well, I
guess I am, and this is never said as a bad thing in my experience, so I'll
take it.

Admittedly, I'm old enough that most people don't care, but I'm still
surprised by those who do.

~~~
T-hawk
I recently had experiences with a regular social group that demonstrated this.
It's a group that drinks regularly except for two people who don't. One always
feels like he fits in fine, while the other's presence always stuck out as not
fitting in. I had to put my finger on why to tell him, after a few events
where I found myself not desiring his presence and deliberately hadn't invited
him.

I'd peg what's missing as _vulnerability_. Alcohol lowers one's social filters
and inhibitions, of course. All the rest of a drinking group is participating
in that shared experience, of letting inner thoughts and feelings be more
exposed. The risk of saying or doing something one might later regret is part
of the thrill. "Having fun" is the euphemism for allowing others to see that
state in you.

Some people can naturally achieve that vulnerable "punch-drunk" state without
alcohol. Some don't. A person who doesn't inhibits that whole vibe for
everyone. You're not a peer, you're a monitor. Doesn't matter if you say you
don't care -- the reality is that you will resist getting drawn in to whatever
excesses are happening, and everyone will perceive that resistance and
themselves adjust for it. Your presence of not mutually participating in the
vulnerability drags down the vibe for everyone. It's not exactly the alcohol,
it's the state of mind, but of course there is a correlation.

Of course this depends a lot on the nature of the social group. A college
fraternity will just plow ahead and ignore that resistance. A country club
probably has everyone acting restrained enough so as not to clash with one
more reluctant personality. But there are those in-between groups, with social
barriers high enough to exist but low enough to be pierced by alcohol, and the
presence of a nondrinker acts against that piercing that the participants
seek.

~~~
btrettel
Thanks, I think a lack of vulnerability is a useful perspective to understand
some of what I've experienced. Typically the people who seem concerned that
I'm not drinking don't know me well.

~~~
btrettel
Additionally, I want to emphasize that it's important to not write off a non-
drinking friend simply because they don't seem to be opening up in the way you
want. I find at least some drinkers seem to write me off in all social
situations based only on those that involve drinking. If that's not the way to
get to know someone, try another way. Also, if it really is about opening up
and not drinking, tell that to your non-drinking friend!

------
terryschiavo22
There's no way that parent drinking behavior isn't a strong indicator too.

~~~
slfnflctd
I've seen that one go both ways, it would be great to have more data.
Anecdotal, but a larger number of people than I expected have told me they
don't drink - or set extremely low limits for themselves - as a result of
parental behavior which led to a disgust response.

------
KateSp
Oh my, don't show me that. My son is going to college next year. I don't
believe that the situation with alcohol is so awful. I'm sure such habits are
taken from his surrounding while growing up.

------
C1sc0cat
Genetic predisposition? that's opening up a can of worms.

"Begorah is it cos I am irish" \- Adopts stereotypical fighting drunkard pose.

~~~
BurningFrog
First law of Behaviour Genetics:

 _All human behavioural traits are heritable._

[https://teammccallum.wordpress.com/3-laws-of-behaviour-
genet...](https://teammccallum.wordpress.com/3-laws-of-behaviour-genetics/)

~~~
stcredzero
_First law of Behaviour Genetics:_

 _All human behavioural traits are heritable._

(As noted elsewhere, almost all.)

I was watching an Aydin Paladin video, and IIRC, she mentioned one study which
found that genetic factors explained 41% of variation in infidelity and 38%
variation in number of sexual partners.

[https://youtu.be/KET2JncpJ7o?t=1028](https://youtu.be/KET2JncpJ7o?t=1028)

Cherkas, L. F., Oelsner, E. C., Mak, Y. T., Valdes, A., & Spector, T. D.
(2004). Genetic influences on female infidelity and number of sexual partners
in humans: a linkage and association study of the role of the vasopressin
receptor gene (AVPR1A). Twin Research and Human Genetics, 7(6), 649-658.

Another citation from that video:

Garver-Apgar, C. E., Gangestad, S. W., Thornhill, R., Miller, R. D., & Olp, J.
J. (2006). Major histocompatibility complex alleles, sexual responsivity, and
unfaithfulness in romantic couples. Psychological Science, 17(10), 830-835.

So much for the ideology of the Blank Slate. Atheism of the 2000's got this
much right: Human beings are conscious and sentient, which is wonderful, but
we are also animals subject to biology. That's just messy reality, and we'd
best deal with it.

~~~
bduerst
Did they control for regional cultural attitudes towards sex?

For example, these genetic factors could correlate with people whose
hereditary upbringing was in a more promiscuous culture, but not necessarily
causing it.

Edit: Your first citation says they didn't find a link between infidelity and
genetics, but did with environment.

~~~
stcredzero
_Did they control for regional cultural attitudes towards sex?_

It was a twin study entirely within the UK.

 _Edit: Your first citation says they didn 't find a link between infidelity
and genetics, but did with environment._

I don't think that's correct. I think you are willfully reading what you want,
and your paraphrase leaves out a key detail.

 _Our findings demonstrate that infidelity and number of sexual partners are
both under moderate genetic influence (41% and 38% heritable, respectively)
and the genetic correlation between these two traits is strong (47%).
Conversely, attitudes towards infidelity are driven by shared and unique
environmental, but not genetic, influences._

The study found that environmental factors shape attitude towards infidelity,
but "infidelity and number of sexual partners are both under moderate genetic
influence."

[https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/39d8/8c23b2535946c1a6be7448...](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/39d8/8c23b2535946c1a6be744805dc00e8bfee5e.pdf)

------
stcredzero
My wife and I cannot drink to keep pace. She's done after 1/4th of a drink.
I'm done after 2. The one time she let her coworkers pressure her to finish a
drink, I had to stay up with her in the bathroom.

