

IT certifications are no longer optional - ilamont
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/347260/Certifications_Are_No_Longer_Optional?taxonomyId=10

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jrockway
_With so many job seekers to choose from, employers need to quickly identify
those who have the skills they seek._

What world is this from? As far as I know, there is a massive shortage of
employable programmers.

~~~
ilamont
The focus is on IT certifications aimed at people who have responsibilities
for networking, security, Cisco/Microsoft products, etc.

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moe
There's a shortage of them, too. Okay, perhaps not for Microsoft "admins",
depending on your requirements for such a position.

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philk
Probably the most important part of the article is:

 _Bart Perkins is managing partner at Louisville, Ky.-based Leverage Partners
Inc., which helps organizations invest well in IT. Contact him at
BartPerkins@LeveragePartners.com._

Leverage Partners, according to it's website _helps organizations maximize
their IT investment through Technology Portfolio Management_

It's not anything more than marketing, aimed at the kind of middle managers
who find the idea of technical resources being fungible and certified
appealing.

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jacquesm
Interesting, I've _never_ asked an employee for any 'certificates', since most
of the certificates are too narrow in scope to be of much use, unless you
happen to need that exact skill.

This of course means that you need lots of certificates if you're going to use
them which is money in the bank for the parties issuing them.

How about the other employers here, do you ask for certification ? Would you
reject an applicant if he or she did not have a certain certificate but had
multiple years of relevant experience vs someone that does have the
certificate but lacks the experience ?

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timwiseman
I have never asked for a certification in an interview nor rejected someone
for not having them.

They are however useful as an indicator of interest and willingness to work
and _very basic_ knowledge of the subject for someone who is just starting in
IT. They mean almost nothing on the resume of a seasoned, experienced
professional, but they can help distinguish one person just starting out from
another, especially if staring at a stack of 20 resumes and only having time
to interview 5.

I would never hire someone on the strength of a certification alone, but I
have personally used them as an indicator of who was worth interviewing for
_entry level positions_ between candidates with no experience too speak of.

On the flip side, when I was transitioning from the military to civilian work,
I got database certifications and more than one interviewer told me directly
that the certification helped convince them to interview me. Another, though
this only happened once, told me that I could have gotten a higher salary
offer if I got a higher level certification.

Also, some jobs in large organizations actively require them. Whether or not
you are willing to work in a large organization is a matter of taste, of
course.

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tptacek
Talent doesn't need or benefit from certifications. If a prospective employer
is pushy about them, you don't want to work there. Pretty simple.

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jcromartie
I got an A+ cert in high school. It helped me get exactly one job: a tech at
Best Buy (while still in HS). In the 9 years since then, the issue of
certification has never come up again. I know there are more serious certs out
there, but I can't help imagining that they are all a lot like my A+ was:
memorizing facts that are fairly orthogonal to actually being able to perform
your job.

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chaosmachine
Most certificates are a joke. Google "brain dump". Anyone with a decent memory
can download a brain dump, study it for a couple days and pass. The only certs
I would trust are supervised, lab-based certs, like the higher-end Cisco
certifications.

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morisy
Certifications are about as optional as they've always been: Some IT positions
they're helpful for, particularly going into government work, but they're not
a guaranteed path to success.

A consultant I've worked with (as a journalist) in the past actually tracks
real wages for certifications vs. wages for area expertise and experience, and
experience and real-world practice win out _almost_ every time. Source:
<http://www.footepartners.com/>

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gacba
Certifications are only valuable if employers value them in return.
Historically, that's been a dicey proposition with only a few exceptions in
specific IT admin areas like Cisco and Microsoft server admin. The rest of the
certifications are more or less crap.

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mburney
Certificates are relevant to non-hackers that want to build a career in IT.
The companies that care about certificates are most likely companies that
hackers wouldn't want to work for.

Also it is interesting how the attitude conveyed in this article is based on
fear. "If I don't have X certification, I won't get a job".

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philk
To be honest, if someone had a whole lot of certifications I'd be worried that
they needed them to cover for their lack of talent.

Also if certifications play a meaningful role in your hiring process you're
probably doing it wrong.

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boredguy8
Punishing someone for having certs is about as silly as rewarding someone for
having them when it's not central to their job. I get a cert every year
because work pays me more to get one and they pay for the test.

~~~
philk
I'm not saying that there aren't good people out there with certs [1], I'm
just saying that personally it'd make me wonder why someone had so many of
them.

It's more that when I visualise really sharp technical people I don't see them
having a load of certs.

[1] And some of the Cisco things, for instance, look pretty rigorous...

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motters
Years ago people recommended that I acquire some MSCE qualifications. I'm so
glad I didn't do them now. For me, it would have been a huge waste of time and
money.

If you're going to take IT skills related courses (and here I don't mean
degrees or PhDs) be careful about your choice and spend some time verifying
whether employers really are looking for those qualifications in new recruits.
My impression of most of the IT skills courses is that they're just money
making mechanisms for a few training companies.

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yardie
The only places I've ever seen certificates be an issue is government and
government contractors. Maybe there are some big companies that also require
them. But they are outsourcing there IT departments more and more so who has
them isn't there problem anymore.

I do notice a dogfood pattern for places that require certificates they will
pay for their employees to acquire them. One company I temped at wanted a bond
to pay for you to get them (work for us for 3 years after getting your MCSE).
A lot of the older guys were really excited about this (job security I guess),
but the younger ones just shrugged at the offer. We were resume building so
being tied to one company for 3 years was definitely not something to look
forward to.

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heresy
I've noticed something interesting about certifications.

At least on forums I come across when Googling things in the Microsoft space,
people with certs tend to add them to their signature, along with their little
MVP badge.

e.g.

Jon Williams MCTS, MCPD, MSCE, MVP

As if it lends their post more credence.

I have two degrees, and ~15 years experience in the industry , but I don't
sign off with

B.Sc, B.Sc(Hons), M.Sc 15 Years Experience

It adds no value...In my opinion, it's a negative indicator. Some of the best
programmers I have ever worked with did not have any degrees or
certifications, they got the job on the strength of their interview and
ability to think.

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va_coder
Certifications are as about as relevant as ComputerWorld magazine

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abalashov
No, they're _completely_ useless now.

