
Coups, lies, dirty tricks: Stewart Copeland on his CIA agent father (2000) - AndrewBissell
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/05/stewart-copeland-father-miles-cia-spy-the-police
======
Synaesthesia
Interesting that he said everything his father taught him was confirmed by
history books. Well, there’s history books and history books.

~~~
AndrewBissell
Yes, I certainly don't remember my high school textbook mentioning anything
about how America's CIA-led foreign policy should be considered explicitly
"amoral." Even here you get the usual spook dissembling from Miles Copeland --
it's plainly _immoral_.

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grugagag
> “Guys, 70 years have gone by! The current regime of Iran was not chosen by
> the CIA. It’s what happened when the Iranians chose their system of
> governance. For right or wrong, it’s theirs.”

Really? The current regime in Iran and the fate of that country was a direct
consequence of exactly what came before that. And that throughout the Middle
East.

That line of thinking is, honestly, either dumb or simply ignorant. But I
guess not as stated:

“My father’s view was that democracy was like two wolves and a sheep voting on
what’s for dinner,” says Stewart, “and indeed in the Arab world it’s very much
like that. My father wasn’t in the business of exporting democracy. He was in
the business of getting the oil to the west by hook or by crook.”

~~~
raxxorrax
It is simply dumb. The CIA certainly didn't want Khomeini in power, but him
being elected is certainly a direct consequence of the CIA toppling their
democracy.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
I would hesitate to call anything concerning human actions a direct
consequence if there is 25 years between the cause and its result.

on edit: instead of repeating the same thing in each response berating me for
not accepting that it was a consequence I will put the additional response
here

I didn't say it wasn't a consequence, but a direct consequence is generally
understood as "an effect that is an immediate result of an event, incident, or
occurrence."

[https://itlaw.wikia.org/wiki/Direct_consequence](https://itlaw.wikia.org/wiki/Direct_consequence)

[https://www.iadclexicon.org/direct-
consequence/](https://www.iadclexicon.org/direct-consequence/)

although it is often used for rhetorical effect in cases where the consequence
is obviously not direct, I just avoid the usage unless I believe it is direct.

~~~
raxxorrax
Well, they toppled the democratically elected leader and installed the last
Shah who was more open to let western powers access their oil. The
revolutionary forces 25 years later directly stated they felt justified to get
rid of the Shah because of foreign intervention.

Would you easily forgive a country that installed a Shah by toppling the
democratically elected leader to get access to oil? Would you forget if you
live day by day under a government directly installed by foreign actors? I
don't think so, so I think it is a very safe bet in this case.

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smitty1e
Loved his music, never realized he had that much else going on.

~~~
frereubu
You might enjoy his autobiography, Strange Things Happen, which mostly skirts
around The Police. Very enjoyable.

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rasz
“Guys, 70 years have gone by! The current regime of Iran was not chosen by the
CIA."

Indeed, it was more of a MI6 job
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/mi6-the-
coup-i...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/mi6-the-coup-in-iran-
that-changed-the-middle-east-and-the-cover-up)

------
TedDoesntTalk
> My Dad the Spy, an Audible Original Podcast, is available to download from
> Audible.co.uk

I’d like to hear this, but I’m not subscribing to Audible for it.

------
AndrewBissell
Famous musical artists with spook upbringings are one gigantic rabbit hole
once you peek inside:
[https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/](https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/)

