
Show HN: We just open-sourced a Skype replacement with HTML5 - dhfromkorea
http://voicechatapi.com/?hn
======
Mandatum
Doesn't appear to be working in Firefox (a lot of things don't seem to work it
Firefox anymore..) however it's working perfectly in Chrome and IE (latest).

Looking really good, I'd add Chat to it as well for people who are having
issues with their mic or prefer to just listen. Actually.. Might have a crack
at that this weekend.

Cheers!

~~~
joshmoz
Firefox dev here. Sorry to hear you're having issues with Firefox. This has
not been my experience, would love to know more specifics about apps that
don't work in Firefox.

Would be hugely helpful if you could file a bug (bugzilla.mozilla.org) when
you see something that doesn't work, but if you want a quicker way to help
I'll file the bug for you. Just send me a one line email with the problematic
URL. joshmoz at gmail

~~~
ama729
Firefox user here, thanks a lot for all the good work!

If I may ask a question while you're here, do you know if there'll be anytime
soon an indicator of the degree of security of WebRTC? Right now, I don't
think there is any indication if the keys-exchange is done over HTTP for
example or other, which is a bit problematic if privacy is important.

Thanks!

~~~
jvehent
afaik, webrtc uses srtp, which is a separate from https.

~~~
vr000m
SRTP/DTLS to be specific instead of SRTP/SDES. In the past the keys were sent
in SDP (using SDES--Security Descriptions) therefore over HTTP, but SRTP/DTLS
is the way forward and in the spec.

------
nathancahill
Mandatum, if you see this, you're hellbanned. Since I can't reply to your
comment about many apps like this not working in Firefox, this particular tool
does work for me in the latest build.

I agree that many cutting-edge browser apps work in Chrome and not Firefox. Is
it a case of browser specific syntax that people default to webkit for?

~~~
cpncrunch
Did Mandatum get hellbanned for saying that the app doesn't work on Firefox?

~~~
nathancahill
It's hard to say, it might have been from his first comment, a year and a half
ago: "Seriously?" [0]

Poor guy has been posting decent comments since then, probably wondering why
no-one replies.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4144856](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4144856)

~~~
runn1ng
Poor guy.

The hellbanning system on ycombinator is terrible. Hellbanning should be
reserved for the most obnoxious of spammers, not for random innocents.

~~~
baby
is it that bad? A lot of people enable the option to see ghost comments. And
then act when needed. It's called auto-moderation and it does seem to work.

~~~
mburns
It works, but not well.

Case in point: It took 18 months for this user to be discovered.

------
songzme
Good job Kunal and team Plivio!

If anyone is looking for a audio+video demo that works similarly, I built
[http://OpenTokRTC.com](http://OpenTokRTC.com) and the code is on github at
[https://github.com/opentok/OpenTokRTC](https://github.com/opentok/OpenTokRTC)

One feature I included is dynamic frame rate so that in cases where there are
many people streaming video, a user can type "/focus" in the chatroom and
everybody's video quality will degrade to save bandwidth and stream the
optimum quality for the focused person's video.

It's also available on iOS, although I believe the iOS app needs alot more
work. I apologize ahead of time if you experience bugs on the iOS app. The app
name is OpenTokRTC and source code is here:
[https://github.com/opentok/OpenTokRTC-
iOS](https://github.com/opentok/OpenTokRTC-iOS)

Hope someone finds this useful, if you have any questions please email me
song@tokbox.com

~~~
vr000m
This is typically the job of the congestion control and the application
constraints set by the developer. Dynamic Frame rate control is just one tool
in the congestion control toolbox and works only for small frame sizes
(typically thumbnails), which perhaps is fine for Hangout-ish large conference
with one or two active speakers.

But there are other use-cases where doing dynamic frame rate wont be
sufficient.

------
tsudot
I built this. Happy to take any questions. Code is hosted here -
[http://github.com/plivo/voicechat/](http://github.com/plivo/voicechat/)

~~~
jamestomasino
Any plans for non-heroku build instructions? Is there really much to it that
Heroku is doing that can't be easily replicated, or was that just for speed of
deployment? I'd love to self-host an instance of this, but that part threw up
a flag for me. Thx!

~~~
tsudot
Yup. It's a flask app which can be self hosted on any instance of yours and it
uses redis to store conference mappings.

------
brongondwana
Have you checked out [https://appear.in/](https://appear.in/) ? Looks like
you're not the only people playing in this space right now. I've used
appear.in sucessfully with a 6 person teleconference on opposite sides of the
world - two of us at home in Australia and the others in two different offices
in Norway.

I'm sure there will be tons of competitors in this space until a bunch of them
drop out and a couple succeed big. Open source is great though - good luck
with it all!

~~~
tootie
I was pretty stoked for appear.in but found the voice quality poor and the
screen share awkward. It's a brilliant concept but it seems like WebRTC needs
some optimizing before it can compete with skype or hangouts.

~~~
jackweirdy
I've not had any problems with voice quality; I know what you mean about the
screen share though. I think that's to do with Chrome only grabbing a low-res
feed from the desktop, from what I gather from the appear.in dudes & dudettes
on twitter.

------
chrissnell
So, this tool is OSS but appears to be dependent on a commercial service. Is
there any chance that Plivo will open source the necessary bits to enable true
standalone operation? There's a lot of potential for an application like this
in parts of the world where open communication is restricted.

~~~
f_salmon
Being open-source is a very important point.

But any communication system that is built for the future must at least be
(public-key) encrypted.

Then you, make it 100% decentralized and you're ready for our time where
unlimited mass surveillance seems acceptable for "democratic" governments.

------
nkcmr
I've created and been maintaining an open source video chat platform for
years. and it's peer-to-peer and html5.

Your Second Phone [https://yoursecondphone.co](https://yoursecondphone.co)

------
brongondwana
Oh - flash. No thanks.

~~~
tsudot
Try the app in Chrome, which uses HTML5 audio. Flash is for other browsers
with graceful fallback.

As Firefox and other browsers support and stabilize HTML5 audio a.k.a. WebRTC,
this App will support it too.

~~~
GeneralMayhem
HTML5 audio and WebRTC are not the same thing.

WebRTC stands for Real Time Communication, and is a protocol for allowing
browser-to-browser traffic. HTML5 Audio is a spec for playing sound through
the browser via <audio> tags, which is confusingly also distinct from the
_Web_ Audio API, which is a Javascript API for programmatic sound.

------
vezzy-fnord
That's nice and all, but it's hardly a "Skype replacement".

I'm waiting for Tox to get ready for a public release. There hasn't been much
word on it, but development is slowly continuing by the day. There's also
something like six GUIs by now.

~~~
dhfromkorea
It's true this app does not "fully" replace Skype, but it does replace the
group voice call part of Skype. Also it definitely relieves common pain points
you have while using Skype. (install, signup, login, username exchange,
approval.) Plus if you want to get on a call with a stranger. You would want
to use this.

------
bowlofpetunias
Flash and voice only.

This is really extremely misleading. I do not understand where the upvotes
come from. The project may be interesting, but the headline is borderline
sleazy.

Also, "allow _s3.amazonaws.com_ to access your camera and microphone"? Yeah, I
don't think so.

~~~
tsudot
This uses HTML5 audio on Chrome and falls back to Flash on other browser.

The WebSDK is currently hosted on s3 and hence the request. Will fix this.

------
hendry
This is hardly a Skype replacement.

I'd be impressed when someone gets VOIP working on WebRTC. i.e. supporting SIP
logins. I tried Doubango Telecom and it didn't work.

------
russell_h
I just saw a presentation by tsudot about this, where he mentioned a pretty
cool use case for this: they've got Hubot in their team's channel set up so
they can just say "conference", and it'll generate a link for everyone to jump
in and talk about things. I'm not sure if its quite a Skype replacement, but
it could replace a lot of the way I use Skype or G+ today.

~~~
dhfromkorea
Thanks. We believe this can replace a subset of what people do with
Skype—quick calls with friends and teammates.

The hubot script will let people do audio conference on chat clients which
don't natively support it. The community script is here:
[https://github.com/dhfromkorea/hubot-
scripts/blob/master/src...](https://github.com/dhfromkorea/hubot-
scripts/blob/master/src/scripts/voicechat.coffee/)

------
imtu80
Here is my open source WebRTC project.
[https://github.com/imomin/videoChat](https://github.com/imomin/videoChat)

------
easy_rider
Mmm, actually I Happen to use Skype actually much more for chatting, with the
occasional voice chat. Much like MSN, but more professional.

I wish Skype wouldn't be so integrated into the professional world, and be
forced to use it. But hey as a freelancer, I'm not going to be shy about using
Skype if all my clients use it :/

~~~
tsudot
True, I feel the issue with Skype is that its too personal. You add someone as
a contact without realizing that they can monitor your status all the time.

ps. I built this.

~~~
venomsnake
I solved that beautifully - I am always online 24/7 - no crap like DND away
and similar. So people just learned that answering is optional from me no
matter of the status...

~~~
free652
I do this across all programs. My status is always "online".

------
BorisMelnik
Love it, UX is beautifully elegant (only thing that ruins it is the Adobe
Flash permission popup which looks like it is from Windows 3.1)

This is something I feel as though I will actually use, and is easy enough for
my own mother to use.

~~~
bevenky
Try Chrome which will use HTML5, No-Flash!

------
pjmlp
For something to replace Skype, the respective users have to be convinced to
move other to the Skype replacement of the month.

For my contacts list, I am sure it won't happen unless they are forced to move
away.

------
quadrangle
Boo. Apparently open-washing, proprietary centralized, not WebRTC.

------
_Soulou
[http://meet.jit.si](http://meet.jit.si) is alive since last year it's open
source. It works well! Give it a try

------
nej
HN Test Conference:
[http://voicechatapi.com/pqebs2gqe/?share](http://voicechatapi.com/pqebs2gqe/?share)

------
MyNameIsMK
The Chat Room
[http://voicechatapi.com/pxuk07nxu/?share](http://voicechatapi.com/pxuk07nxu/?share)

------
arcameron
If you're interested in this, please also check out
[https://echoplex.us](https://echoplex.us) :)

~~~
allannienhuis
That's very nicely done. Could be an easy website support option.

------
m0dest
[http://voicechatapi.com/p120caoh1/?share](http://voicechatapi.com/p120caoh1/?share)

------
MyNameIsMK
"Welcome to the conferencing bridge. You are currently alone in the
conference"

 __FOREEVER ALONE __

------
dclara
Very nice tool, talk anonymously and in conference. But my IE 11 does not pop
up the flash screen.

------
known
[http://burnerapp.com/](http://burnerapp.com/)

------
rwaldron
Open Wash.

~~~
hugs
Yeah, I looked at the code and the site trying to find the line between what's
really open and what's proprietary. Could this app work without a Plivo
account? What do the Plivo bits do that I can't do with plain old WebRTC?

~~~
bevenky
Plivo WebSDK ([http://plivo.com/voip-sdk/](http://plivo.com/voip-sdk/)) allows
graceful fallback to Flash for non WebRTC browsers.

WebRTC alone won't run on all browsers!

------
b0z0
It's about time! This Skype is terrible, and WebRTC is amazing.

------
wcummings
I don't want to give aws.amazon.com access to my mic...

------
__xtrimsky
I use skype for two things:

\- chat

\- videochat

I never just use audio chat. I video chat even with my coworkers.

~~~
gcb0
skype is so crappy that i usually call people in video, and then after some
problems we are both disabling video to try to improve audio quality.

~~~
xtracto
This.

I am actually waiting for a "video chat" application that allows me to choose
between "having crappy video frames every second" or "having very high quality
picture frames every 10~30 seconds".

It would be very useful if you could fix the picture quality at say, 640x480
and then the framerate dropped to get that quality. That way video conference
could be very useful to share stuff like whiteboard drawings, among other
things.

~~~
babby
Yeah, meanwhile Skype is just removing features. The other day I had this
Skype followup job interview and I realized I should change my display picture
or better yet remove it because taking pictures of ones self is tedious. They
removed the ability to remove your display pic. What the fuck?

Would love a proper open source Skype replacement. Something that meets all of
the features in a similar or better interface, while also being pro-privacy
pro-encryption. Kind of like the Firefox of communication clients. I don't
think it's plausible any time soon as you can only Skype fellow skype users.
People need a reason to switch and stay there, thus approaching Skype levels
of a userbase. Maybe if Firefox itself integrated a powerful addon that could
compete with Skype, which would allow for a huge userbase. Heh, one can hope.

I'm with you on the quality thing though. So. Many. Times. Have I had to deal
with cumbersome upload speeds for either person thus degrading audio and video
to the point where they look like blobs or I do. Sometimes it happens no
matter what the user's connection is like. Then there's the whole auto
background noise amplifier that kicks in when you're not speaking for a
period, to conveniently transmit your TV or aircon at ear shattering volumes.
And once again you can't turn that off!

It's just, like, these people developing apps like Skype don't care about
making it a great application. How much does it really cost to put in a few
critically useful features? Are the devs not passionate? Is there too much
bureaucracy? Why is "it works" an acceptable standard? How the hell can you be
a devloper for something that is literally used by so many _millions_ of
people and yet feel no urge to make that software the absolute finest
possible?

------
ycmike
This looks fantastic. Will play with it this weekend.

------
homakov
1\. how to know who's talking?

2\. when you add video?

~~~
bevenky
This code is open source. Feel free to send a pull request with "who is
talking"..

XML to use is here -
[http://plivo.com/docs/xml/conference/](http://plivo.com/docs/xml/conference/)

Hint: use the floorevent param.

------
Collizo4sky
Nice app

