
ZTE Starts Sales of Open C Firefox OS Phone on eBay - conductor
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/05/08/zte-starts-sales-of-open-c-firefox-os-phone-on-ebay
======
daleharvey
For people who are interested in being able to develop on the device and flash
new builds, I would suggest waiting a little longer for the reference device

[https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/02/23/new-developer-
hardw...](https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/02/23/new-developer-hardware-and-
tools-show-firefox-os-ecosystem-momentum-2/)

It is due to be shipped soon, is going to be used widely internally for
development and full public builds / a good dev experience has been promised.

~~~
diafygi
Do you know how much it will cost?

~~~
glogla
The Mozilla page [1] says 170 USD including global shipping.

[1]: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/Firefox_OS/Developer_pho...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/Flame)

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dpcan
Hope it's noticeably faster than the ZTE Open which I couldn't realistically
use for day to day applications due to the lag and that it never updated to
the latest Firefox OS and I had trouble doing it manually because I didn't
know which build to flash my device with (lingo?)

Going to give this one a try.

So far, 2 Firefox phones and I haven't paid as much as I did for my 1 Android.
So technically, I can still justify trying 1 more version of the ZTE phone if
it comes out for around $99 in the next year or so :)

I keep trying though because I just love the idea that I can use my current
web development skill set to create native apps for this so easily. My first
attempts on the ZTE Open went really well.

~~~
ekr
>I keep trying though because I just love the idea that I can use my current
web development skill set to create native apps for this so easily. My first
attempts on the ZTE Open went really well.

I'd say those apps are hardly native, now, are they? There are several layers
between the code you write, and the actual ARM(in most cases) machine code.

~~~
highwind
Then, I'd argue that writing iOS app in Objective C is not native because
there are several layers between Obj-C and the Apple A7 cpu.

There might be more layers on Firefox OS than iOS, but I'd take more
abstraction layer than write speedy "native" code any day.

~~~
wtallis
Speed definitely still matters for everyday apps on mobile devices, because
their processors are so much slower than actively-cooled desktops and laptops,
and because touchscreens demand a more responsive UI. JIT runtimes have gotten
faster, but statically compiling to machine code (especially when link-time
optimization is used) cannot be beat for things like application launch
performance. And the machine code that Objective-C compiles down to is
definitely more native than bytecode for a JIT VM.

~~~
fred_durst
Could we start to come to an agreement that maybe "Native" might be a bit of a
marketing term? For example a browser rendering HTML and CSS is probably
native under the current term. It is not until you get to JavaScript that
things need the JIT VM.

~~~
Pacabel
"Native" is not a marketing term, and we shouldn't pretend that it is.

It has a very specific definition in this context, and this definition
requires that the application be represented in a form that's directly
executable on whatever CPU is being used by the computer executing the
application.

Anything that doesn't match that very simple criteria is obviously not a
"native" app.

Maybe a new term is needed for describing this type of situation involving
Firefox OS. I don't know what that would be, but I do know that we shouldn't
go ruining an existing technical term.

~~~
fred_durst
Would that make Android development that uses XML layouts and the Dalvik JIT
VM "obviously not a native app"?

~~~
Pacabel
Right. If there's bytecode of any sort that needs to be converted to machine
code on the fly, then we aren't dealing with a native app.

We wouldn't consider a Java app running on HotSpot on a desktop or server
Linux system to be considered a "native app". Thus we shouldn't consider a
Java app running on Dalvik on a mobile Linux system to be considered a "native
app" either.

Maybe that will change in the Android case if ART and its AOT compilation
approach is more widely adopted. But that'll still be some time in the future,
if ever at all.

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diafygi
The previous generation (ZTE Open) started at $79 and is now $69. This price
point was so impressive for the html5 capabilities that it had. I even did a
presentation on it's SVG performance vs. a similar Android device[1].

I'm concerned about the increased $99 price point. I thought the target market
for Firefox OS was the developing world, where they could release extremely
low cost phones ($50-$80) that can run the full gamut of html5 (vs. Android
that is stuck in 2.3 for phones this cheap). Why release new phones that won't
see as much adoption (because of the higher price)?

[1] -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8)

~~~
nnethercote
Don't panic. We're actively working on the $25 dollar phone that was reported
earlier in the year (e.g. [http://www.cnet.com/news/with-firefox-os-mozilla-
begins-the-...](http://www.cnet.com/news/with-firefox-os-mozilla-begins-
the-25-smartphone-push/)). So there will be quite the range of price points to
be had.

~~~
diafygi
Woo! Great news! One of benefits of having cheap devices is that it
significantly lowers the barrier to entry for the developer community. It
becomes super encouraging to pick up a phone just to fiddle.

However, one of the biggest problems the community ran into for the ZTE Open
was that hardly any Mozilla devs had one. So even though it was the most
easily obtainable phone for the dev community, it received very little Mozilla
support.

As these low-end devices push the limits the most for Firefox OS, will the
Mozilla team start to work with them more?

~~~
nnethercote
Some Mozilla devs have them, mostly in the Taipei team where a lot of the work
on this phone is occurring. Hopefully they'll become more common as time goes
on.

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bananas
This is £70 in the UK. That nets you a Lumia 520 as a comparison point. For
£30 more you can get an 8Gb Moto G.

I can't see it selling here.

~~~
morsch
Almost identical specs as a Lumia 520, too. 4 GB storage instead of 8 GB (both
extensible via sd). Even for a low budget phone, I don't get why they don't go
with at least 16 GB. 4 GB is pathetic.

[http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6155&idPhone2=...](http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6155&idPhone2=5322)

~~~
lucaspiller
It's even closer to the Nokia X. Once you've installed Google Play that's not
bad _, and abroad you can pick up the dual SIM version.

_ The Nokia Store is missing pretty basic apps so provides a selection of
third party stores for you to install. Alternatively you can sideload Google
Play services.

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glogla
Here's a semi-review by someone who has had the phone for a week [1]. It is
not the most professional of reviews, but it could give you some impressions
how the phone feels.

[1]:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wB_KLWJQPM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wB_KLWJQPM)

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13throwaway
Do these have an isolated modem? What is the status on running other OSs on
this?

~~~
seba_dos1
ZTE Open is as closed and undocumented as your typical Android phone. Dunno
about Open C, but I wouldn't expect it to be any different.

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tango2
FEATURE Media : Ability to use device speakers with the FM radio app

Really mozilla? Sorry, I would happily donate $99to Mozilla foundation than
buying

~~~
fabrice_d
Please do contribute! Mozilla is not selling these phones, ZTE is.

FM Radio is actually a very important feature in many markets that are not
US/Europe. That was a surprise for us too!

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noisy_boy
I didn't see any mention of filesystem access on this phone - can someone
comment on that?

Edit: I went this comment[1] and the reviewer shows that file manager apps can
be downloaded.

[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7724972](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7724972)

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batmansbelt
That's an exceptional value. So cheap for such good features. And the firefox
marketplace has lots of great apps. FirefoxOS really seems to be taking off,
particularly in Latin America.

~~~
octopus
Do you have any comparison charts between Firefox OS usage and iOS/Android in
South America ?

~~~
batmansbelt
Just for downloads of my apps (games mostly). More action in the firefox
marketplace. Maybe just because Play Store is bigger pond.

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zengr
ZTE's eBay Store front:
[http://www.ebay.com/sch/zte_us/m.html](http://www.ebay.com/sch/zte_us/m.html)

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aaronbrethorst
144 sold in the United States, hmm.
[http://item.ebay.com/291125433026](http://item.ebay.com/291125433026)

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climatewarrior2
Does anybody know if it supports Sprint in the US?

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abus
I would buy this if it had a front facing camera.

