

Why we're better at making athletes than writers - theSshow
http://www.slate.com/id/2289380/

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Stormbringer
Also of worth noting is that guys like Shakespeare and Dickens were not as
well regarded in their own day as they are today. They were the equivalent of
'trash' or 'pulp' writers. If I remember correctly Dickens pumped out most of
his work in the form of penny serials, printed on crappy paper and sold by
street vendors. Shakespeare was regarded as low-brow and theatre was not held
in high regard, basically the "Jack-Ass" or "low production values couple of
kids on youtube" equivalent of his day.

And, to be honest, most of the elite athletes don't make a lasting name for
themselves. Willie Mays, yes... Michael Jordan perhaps... but Larry Bird? A
great, even dominant player but do the kids of today even know who he is? I've
_heard_ of Kareem Abdul Jabar, but I couldn't tell you which team (or teams?)
he played for.

The star of 'elite' athletes burns brightly, but fades quickly, whereas
literary achievement can be passed on and on and on from generation to
generation. The good stuff endures.

~~~
Travis
I think you may be overstating exactly how "low brow" Shakespeare was. At the
time, high/low brow was pretty much determined by asking, "was this written by
the Greeks or the Romans?" So their concept of quality was based on what we
moderns consider antiquated rubrics.

I think low production value and Jackass are pretty far off base. You are
correct that nobody thought of the bard as highly as Virgil; it is also true,
however, that the only way for him to reach that rarified air would have been
literally impossible. (Travel time and become an ancient Roman).

Not sure what I'd consider something equivalent in modernity. Maybe something
like Lord of the Rings? Hugely popular appeal, enjoyed by a wide range of
social classes (something Shakespeare was famous for as well), yet incredibly
rich and deep.

I guess I'm just nit picking here, but it is an exaggeration to make too
strong of a comparison between a low quality YouTube video and Shakespeare,
even looking in the context of their histories.

~~~
Stormbringer
The modern equivalent is probably something like Harry Potter - mass popular
appeal but from a technical point of view not well written, or maybe Stephen
King - extremely prolific within his particular niche.

I think you are grossly overestimating the social position of actors in the
days of Shakespeare, from what I've read they were regarded as little better
than prostitutes (and some were, they were not at all well paid for their
stage work).

Additionally, your 'nitpick' about Shakespeare being compared to Virgil etc
actually _proves my point_ , that we tend to hold older writings in higher
regard than modern writings. Whereas with athletes, this is not the case.
Roger Bannister is famous for running the first (recorded) four minute mile,
whereas today running a four minute mile isn't even considered noteworthy.
Sporting records regularly tumble, and when they do the athlete that set the
previous record diminishes a little in our eyes (I'm not arguing that this is
good or right, just that _it is_ ), whereas Shakespeare and Tolkein are always
going to be up on their pedestals.

When I used to read lots of Fantasy I would pick up books in shops and read
the blurbs on the back, and almost everyone was going to be 'the next Tolkein'
or 'bigger and better than Tolkein' or some such hyperbole. Now I can easily
imagine someone being better than Tolkein (he spends an entire page describing
a forest just talking about _trees_ for goodness sake. They're big green and
leafy, move on for goodness sake!), but you're not the next Tolkein until
everyone compares their books to you instead of him. If you see what I mean.

~~~
Travis
I think the King comparison might be the most apt yet. Most people view him as
a Crichton/Tom Clancy level populist, but his Dark Tower series really is an
impressive literary piece.

WRT the sports thing: do you think some of that difference could be ascribed
to the simple fact that we don't play the same sports as they did back in the
day? While sport isn't a modern invention, the particular sports (and the
fierceness of pursuit due to the money, fame, etc.) are new.

And finally, I'm not sure if my comment further proves your point, or if it
means that we can only compare literature to sport in comparable times. If you
accept the idea that sports used to be less important (possible due to the
physical nature of regular work and the lack of leisure time), then you can
really only compare sports (nearly exclusively happening in the 20th century)
to 20th century literature.

In short, sports have just started to catch their stride.

Further, it could be argued that the ethos of the warrior was the true
analogue of athletes in premodern times. Hercules, et al.

------
brudgers
The article misses the big difference between Shakespeare in Elizabethan
London and Shakespeare in twenty-first century Topeka - today's Shakespeare
has far more competition. He's not just competing against Topeka's Marlowe _et
al._ , but against those of Kansas City, St. Louis, New York, London,
Shanghai, LA, and everywhere else in the world. His $15 million dollar vision
for Topeka's very own Globe Theater has to compete with Google, T-bills, and
an Arby's franchise for investment.

And of course Shakespeare of Topeka is also competing against the established
brand of the original for access to existing theaters and against all those
athletes for a slice of the public's leisure time and disposable dollars.

In many ways the Bard had it easy, there's only so much entertainment value in
gin and whoring. If he had to go up against American Idol, things might have
been quite different.

~~~
theSshow
The article does mention that "there are so many people pushing to get to the
top in sports that 100 people are crushed for each one who breaks through."
The author makes the point that it is this competition that creates the best
of athletes in our society, and fosters the necessary talent to be come a good
athlete.

I do think that the author misses the point when he compares producing a major
league player every 10-15 years to be the same as producing a "Shakespeare"
every 10-15 years. Producing a "Shakespeare" every 10-15 years is like
producing the best of the best every 10-15 years. To play in the Major
Leagues, you have to be one of the best, but amongst that elite group, only a
select few can achieve "Shakespearean" status.

To produce a Shakespeare, Einstein, or a Michael Jordan requires some luck,
and they are characters in history that will be remembered for a while. But it
should be possible to cultivate a culture that can foster more talent in the
academic fields.

------
theSshow
Can also apply to engineering...

~~~
melling
And science... How about developing 5000 Isaac Newtons? There are lots of
problems in the world that could be solved by producing more great scientists
and engineers.

