
What Is Going on with UFOs and the Department of Defense? - arto
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27666/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-ufos-and-department-of-defense
======
SteveNuts
My guess is it's the US military projecting. They've almost certainly got
covert flying vehicles cruising around so naturally they'd want to know about
any sightings of their own craft, or an enemy doing the same thing in the
airspace.

What better way to gauge how well the tech is working than by crowdsourcing
the sightings?

~~~
rl3
Nick Cook wrote a book in 2001 entitled _The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the
Classified World of Antigravity_. It's notable because Cook was an editor for
Jane's Defense Weekly, a legendary and reputable defense publication of the
utmost credibility.

A few years ago in a thread similar to this I discussed[0] and dissected[1]
the book. My conclusion was that Cook is mistaken, but given incidents like
this, and the fact he later uncovered a black UAV program, I always wonder.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957586](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957586)

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10971548](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10971548)

~~~
feedbeef
It never hurts to wonder. If we assume the Tic Tac is a man made craft, it
doesn't seem a far stretch to also assume it may employ antigravitics. Perhaps
it can be traced back to Die Glocke [1]. Your linked HN posts also mention
Hutchison, an interesting character who appears repeatedly down the rabbit
hole, where you'll also discover Schauberger and Leedskalnin. There's a lot of
smoke and mirrors in these topics, which often delve into conspiracy and
pseudoscience, making it hard to discuss them without sounding like a crazy
person. In any case, it's fascinating to ponder, even if it's all just science
fiction.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Glocke](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Glocke)

~~~
rl3
Per your link:

> _" Although no evidence of the veracity of Witkowski’s statements has been
> produced, they reached a wider audience when they were retold by British
> author Nick Cook, who added his own views to Witkowski’s statements in The
> Hunt for Zero Point.[4]"_

The WW2 "Bell" experiment narrative was actually my largest complaint with
Cook's book. While it makes for a fantastic story that's pretty much
screenplay material, it's very unlikely to be true.

~~~
feedbeef
Yes, Die Glocke / the bell has been embellished beyond all recognition of
whatever it really was. I bear some guilt with my comment above; it would have
been more appropriate to suggest that the bell's mysticism may have inspired
fringe research, e.g. Podkletnov, similar to how Rife may have inspired
Hutchison, and Hutchison inspired Bushman, and so on.

------
DoreenMichele
Friendly reminder: UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object, _not_ Suspected
Alien Aircraft From Another Planet.

Asking "why the hell" the DOD would be interested in _Unidentified_ phenomenon
in its territory goes well beyond sensationalism and straight into stupidity.

~~~
StavrosK
I thought the same when I saw the article contain the line "related to
encounters with what many would call UFOs".

Well what else would they call them if they don't fucking know what they are?!

------
jvanderbot
Having dealt with some of these systems, let me tell you up front, its
entirely possible it's nothing. I've seen tracks like those suggested in the
article pass directly overhead support vessels during maneuvers, and theres
nothing there. It can happen a few times a day or even hour, and just means
your sensor fusion is a bit janky.

tfa: "This, in turn, provides very high fidelity 'tracks' of targets thanks to
telemetry from various sensors operating at different bands and looking at the
same target from different aspects and at different ranges."

My take from last article: Let me tell you: fast tracks moving at insane
speeds with sometimes-faint signatures are the norm. a perfectly calm sea, esp
near shore, can create 100s or a 1000 spurious tracks if automated tools are
trusted. The incorrect association of signatures to hypothesized contacts can
produce "jumps" in their location, altitude that makes it look like inhuman
maneuverability.

Second, the proliferation of small aircraft does bias operators (and
algorithms) to assume a real contact from small signatures, esp at low
altitudes where noise is greatest.

In a well integrated, multi-vehilce sensor network, a small false positive
rate for each individual recognition and classication module produces enough
bullshit to trick automated trackers into labelling targets. If we cant assume
common sense filtering like "aircraft cant go from hover to mach 3 in one
sweep", then the possible associations of sensor data to hypotheses is
astronomical, and bullshit propegates.

Its a mess when you integrate so many sensors and systems and try to make
sense of the resulting noise.

~~~
runjake
If you watch the videos in the article interviewing crew members, they express
great doube that these were sensor anomalies. They mention replacing
equipment, doing several re-calibrations, and that the detections were multi-
spectral and even corroborated on separate craft and sensor packages.

I'm a former military avionics dude who worked on systems like this, including
"black" stuff. I don't believe in extraterrestrials having visited Earth.

Their explanations sound pretty on-target and baffling.

But anyway, they address the concerns you bring up rather well.

~~~
ianai
Do you think they’re actual anomalies? Ie something actually there that isn’t
explainable.

~~~
runjake
I do think something was there on those occasions and that it was not an
anomaly. Again, because this was viewed multi-spectrally (visual, FLIR, video,
radar) across multiple vessels.

I’d need to witness it myself to form any stronger opinions. I do believe the
crew people being interviewed are stating what happened to the best of their
knowledge.

~~~
shadowprofile76
You meant to say that it was not a sensor anomaly no?, in other words that it
could have been an actual anomaly (because they were viewed multi-spectrally)
as the other commentator asked? Genuinely curious.

------
dontbenebby
My favorite conspiracy theory (emphasis on theory, this is pure speculation)
is they're Chinese drones.

The logic basically goes that 3M accidentally created a force field[1] in a
factory[2], factories are mostly in China now, so if "running a factory" leads
to antigravity tech, China would be the ones to develop it.

As much as "I want to believe", if it's true they're not American, it's quite
possible they're not _alien_ , just foreign.

I've noticed a weird kind of racism in some folks who talk about China: they
simultaneously think they'll conquer the world and that they can't invent
technology on their own.

It's certainly interesting logic to conclude "If it's not American, it must be
alien".

[1] [https://www.wired.com/story/the-physics-of-plastic-sheets-
an...](https://www.wired.com/story/the-physics-of-plastic-sheets-and-their-
invisible-force-fields/)

[2]
[http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/e-wall.html](http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/e-wall.html)

~~~
themagician
“I've noticed a weird kind of racism in some folks who talk about China: they
simultaneously think they'll conquer the world and that they can't invent
technology on their own.”

That’s just normal racism. Mexicans are too lazy to work, but come here and
steal our jobs. Muslims come here to force Sharia Law on everyone, but fail to
integrate and keep to themselves. Illegals are using public services for free,
but pay taxes using fake information and are criminals. Obama was incompetent,
but also managed to build complex shadow government. You can just keep going.

By using a dichotomous framework of stereotypes you can easily make a case
against an entire population because if one negative stereotype doesn’t fit a
given individual you simple apply the other one.

~~~
everdev
Any blanket criticism of millions or billions of people is bound to be highly
inaccurate and also have some non zero degree of accuracy just due to the
sheer numbers of people and how common these traits are in any population.

Racism is taking the non-zero existence of a complaint and extrapolating it to
the broader population without caring to get to know the individual people.

Unfortunately, it was probably an evolutionary survival technique that worked
thousands of years ago but has pretty disastrous consequences today.

~~~
pasquinelli
Why do you think it is a biological trait rather than a politically useful
tool? What do we know about racism outside the context of complex mass
societies with highly stratified classes of members? Maybe it's an effective
con and not a natural instict.

~~~
darepublic
Don't we know that chimps engage in large scale tribal warfare. And that our
ancestors killed off the Neanderthals

~~~
pasquinelli
What's that got to do with racism of the type this thread has been about?

 _edit_ , to be clear, what sort of contradictory, no-win steriotypes to
chimps have about other chimp groups or did early modern humans have about
neanderthals?

------
nabla9
Here is Skeptical Inquirer article about 'Tic Tac' incident.

[https://skepticalinquirer.org/2018/05/navy_pilots_2004_ufo_a...](https://skepticalinquirer.org/2018/05/navy_pilots_2004_ufo_a_comedy_of_errors/)

~~~
shadowprofile76
One major problem with sites like the skeptical Enquirer is that they exist to
serve their main purpose -to be skeptical. This by itself is fine to an extent
and much of their content can and does legitimately debunk nonsensical and
unfounded claims. But when your main purpose is skepticism, it can become self
serving to the point that you cherry pick arguments, evidence, cases and lots
of other things in order to always ensure that a known explanation can be
found no matter what, even if it has to be stretched thin. Unknown things do
happen, forcing them to conform to a certain easy bracket of the known is its
own type of irrationality.

------
soulofmischief
Isn't this most likely just a response to the surge of drones over the last
half decade?

I imagine UFO sightings have proportionally increased and thus the number of
ad-hoc reported sightings within the Navy finally crossed the threshold.

It could even be a foreign government or spy agency doing amateur
reconnaissance with new tech.

As the article states,

> The lack of a structured procedure and classification system, and the
> nebulous fear of being stigmatized by reporting things like UFOs [is]
> something that has long plagued the military and private sectors alike

There is also the nebulous fear of people overreacting whenever you finally
decide to implement these common-sense policies. You _must_ be hiding
something, even if you were ironically just trying to be more transparent.

I don't mean to sound like a denier. The released IR footage from the same
observation period [0] is incredible and, if real, proves that high-G
maneuvers without exhaust or aerofoils exist and we are still lacking some
very fundamental understanding about the nature of gravity.

I also found the article to be well thought-out and that it covered most of
the most obvious answers without trying to paint a particular picture. I'll
have to pay more attention to Rogoway.

Speculating on the shape of the aircraft, would the round tic-tac shape
provide the least average air resistance in every direction provided an
aerofoil is not needed for flight?

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9D8dzl4zGk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9D8dzl4zGk)

------
thewallofhenry
They are just preparing the public for the shit tons of satallites and drones
there are about to be everywhere watching us. "Oh good its not a UFO it is the
UberMcDonald's Delivery Drone Mothership."

------
jfoutz
I have a lot of biases in my vision. Optical illusions are clearly one example
of exploiting those biases.

I suspect there are a lot of biases in processing return signals from radar,
an expectation of motion like things actually move.

So, if i had the resources of a nation, and some idea of how radar actually
works, i could build a device that actually made a steady turn from, say west
to north, look like something else.

I know very little about how radar works in the nitty gritty details, but i
know a little bit about how our eyes are fooled by optical illusions.
dynamically changing color, and maybe some little helper parts that fly away
and change color or produce smoke would really mess with my eyes. it's weird
how fireworks always fly right toward you no matter where you stand, right?

Extending that to radar and infrared seems totally reasonable. Also, my eyes
have a lot of evolution both adding biases, and ensuring those biases don't
mess up very often.

Automated systems don't even have 80 years of engineering effort to accurately
represent what's happening.

------
bayareanative
Applying Occam's Razor:

It's an elaborate disinformation campaign to persuade foreign adversaries to
spend money on threats that don't exist. Inflatable tanks and planes of WWII
taken to the modern era, long-con fakery facilitated and amplified by social
media. NORAD could also vector a large white, odd-shaped aircraft with much
separation from commercial traffic with their transponder switched off to seem
like that rogue UFO. Throw in some CGI deepfakes to bolster the story.
Testimonials about radar tracks with outlandish claims of impossible
acceleration sans _verifiable_ evidence to reinforce other-worldly mystique.

Santa Claus isn't real and neither are purported robotic ETs reccying Earth's
flora and fauna for an invasion.

~~~
SubiculumCode
Perhaps you do not understand what Occam's Razor means when you lead off your
explanation by describing it as an 'elaborate' disinformation campaign

------
Tossrock
Since this is recirculating in the public consciousness, I'm going to repeat
my pet theory: they're automated Von Neumann probes that have been in the
solar system (and probably ~all star systems in the galaxy) for longer than
humanity has existed, and are performing reconnaissance now that there are
signs of intelligent life on the planet.

I like this theory because it obviates large problems with other theories, ie
crossing interstellar distances just to visit us (they were already here), the
lack of observed Von Neumann probes when they should be common (now they've
been observed), the idea that some earthly nation has managed to develop
technology so far beyond all others and keep it secret (nope), etc.

~~~
wbhart
Why would Von Neumann probes make silent, sharp, right angled turns at
impossible speeds with no visible thrust, defying the known laws of physics.
It can't be evidence of aliens if it isn't even possible.

~~~
Rodeoclash
I don't know "how" they do it, but those kind of motions do remind me of how
AI agents move in computer games when unconstrained by the rules of physics.

~~~
holler
perhaps some alien in another dimension was moving his mouse a different
direction?

------
speeq
Several civilian aircraft reported UFOs over Ireland a few months ago - here’s
an ATC recording:
[https://youtu.be/pv7x4dRye3U?t=300](https://youtu.be/pv7x4dRye3U?t=300)

~~~
lowdose
Is this from a confirmed source?

~~~
speeq
[https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/ireland-ufo-pilots-
intl/i...](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/ireland-ufo-pilots-
intl/index.html)

> "It came up on our left hand side (rapidly veered) to the north, we saw a
> bright light and it just disappeared at a very high speed ... we were just
> wondering. We didn't think it was a likely collision course .. (just
> wondering) what it could be," she said.

> A pilot on Virgin Flight 76 added that his flight crew had seen "two bright
> lights at 11 o'clock (which) seemed to bank over to the right and then climb
> away at speed."

------
DoctorOetker
why does this article keep returning anew on hacker news?

The military wants people to feel no stigma for reporting observations they
fail to explain on their own? Good, no problem with that, it is their duty to
watch out for such contingencies. And they probably don't see it as their duty
to explain and share footage of each and every incident, and the internal
conclusions, ... because they don't want others to know their level of
alertness, the resolution and sensitivity of their systems, ...

Why is thedrive.com so intent on portraying such events as "unexplainable" by
a collection of humans? They are re-creating the stigma by conflating UFO's
with the seemingly impossible.

I.e. even if it is "just a sensor malfunction" or "just an optical effect", it
is important to the military that the human operators report these
deficiencies up the chain of command: if accidental situations can fool the
systems and operators (UFO sightings) into seeing things that don't exist, or
misinterpreting things that do exist, then obviously:

1\. such hallucinations could be artificially induced (think chaff,
camouflage, ...) and hence it is important to take note of spontaneously
arising confusing observations

2\. such hallucinations increase the noise floor and distract from potential
true invasions of air space: if you can address and learn from UFO sightings
to improve sensor systems, then a true violation of air space requires less
work to detect than if it is hiding in a stack of illusory UFO reports

------
Animats
They may be US drones. If some stealth technology needs to be field tested,
flying around a carrier group on a training mission is a good way to do it.

Something like the XQ-58A Valkyrie combat drone or the BQM-167A target drone.
Those are unclassified and have performance beyond what most manned aircraft
can do. There are probably others that are still classified.

~~~
mimixco
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "drone" simply refer to an unmanned and
remotely controlled aircraft? If so, being a drone doesn't explain how such a
craft could defy what (the general public) knows about the physics of flight.
Drone or not, how does something descend from 60,000 feet to 500 feet in a few
seconds, as the story says?

------
ergothus
> is that there is no real way to distinctly classify something like a UFO or
> USO in such a way that it gets reported and an investigation occurs on an
> official level within the military.

This is what is all about. A UFO is probably not an alien, it is probably a
human mistake, an innocent flyer (weather balloon, etc), or a non-expected
craft (civilian, enemy, etc). If the military doesnt know about them, isnt
trying to figure out which, and isnt improving its ability to determine which,
then it is ignoring data and allowing intel and intel training to lapse.

In other situations it might pay off well to have those skills, practices, and
policies established.

It's not mysterious, it's not exciting, it's just just military paying
attention where it is boring yet useful to pay attention.

~~~
acct1771
Only useful if it doesn't expose your own projects/secret associations.

------
Spooky23
The last time this got a lot of publicity in the 80s, it was cover for
tomahawk missile testing.

The other possibility is some nut job in the administration has a pet project.

~~~
AgentME
>missile testing

This reminds me of something I saw that I never really talked about. Maybe
about 7 years ago, I was out bicycling at around 10pm at night outside of
Socorro NM (a small desert college town), and to the west I saw a light appear
from behind some mountains steadily heading up and north in a slightly curved
path. I thought it was a plane or a helicopter until it suddenly disappeared
after about 30 seconds. I assumed it turned off its lights or that I somehow
misunderstood what I saw, but a minute later, a new light appeared from the
same original spot, followed the path again, and disappeared. This sequence
repeated maybe ten times. I assume it was some kind of missile test that I
saw. The White Sands Missile Range was 10+ miles to the southeast (the wrong
direction), though I think I remember there also being other explosive testing
ranges nearby to the west. I would love to know what exactly I saw, though I
never knew how to go about finding that out even if the information was
published somewhere.

~~~
Evidlo
Crown flash, maybe?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dapweXhhfLU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dapweXhhfLU)

~~~
AgentME
Nah it was way after sunset, it was definitely a point light source, the
repetitions followed a strict schedule (I had started watching the time after
the third one), and it had the steady motion you'd expect of an object with
mass propelling itself that an illusion wouldn't necessarily have. It really
seemed like a fast plane in the distance at night, and I wouldn't have given
it a second thought had it not been for the disappearance or the repetition. I
believe I saw a puff of light when it winked out, but it was hard to tell. The
mountains it appeared behind were 10 miles away, and it was probably further
than that.

The town was surrounded by various explosives testing ranges. Occasionally
everyone would hear the loud thump of a bomb being test during the day.
Mythbusters was known for using some bomb range nearby. I'm pretty confident
it was some kind of military or scientific test I saw, I'm just mainly curious
about the specifics.

------
qpiox
I have seen UFO-s twice.

First time in early 1990ies, second time it was about 10 years ago.

First sight looked like a formation of lights that moved in sync across the
night sky in a straight line. The formation was long, like a long rectangle or
long cylinder made of stars. Not too many stars, maybe a hundred. Moving
slowly straight in the direction of it's length. I could not tell how far it
was, so I can't really judge for the size of it, but it was "flying" higher
than the peak of the nearby mountain (which is 1km high and about 10km away),
and the lenght was comparable to 1/2 of the south-west ridge of that mountain
which itself is aprox. 5-6km long. So the UFO would have to be at least 1km
long if it was closer, but it could be many km long if it was further. My
family members saw it, as we were on the balcony at home and had clear
unobstructed view. I might exagerate about the size of it, but I really did
saw it. It could be easily recorded if someone had a videocamera, but we did
not. We always had a photo camera at that period but nobody thought about the
possibility of taking a picture. We could have tried if we had film, but I
don't remember why we did not try. We didn't even talk about the possibility.
When you see something like it, it does not occur to you that you might need
proof and that nobody will believe. But I don't care, since I saw what I saw.
Of course there can be millions of explanations what it was, but there weren't
any gived and nobody else mentioned seeing it when we asked around the next
day. It could have easily been a formation of airplanes.

The other sight, was when I was by the nearby river with my partner, who did
not see the UFO. It was a regular summer night, and something flew across the
sky, at extreme velocity, just like a meteorite does. But suddenly right
before going out of sight, it changed direction nearly 90 degrees and
continued with the same high velocity. It all happened in a blink of an eye,
of course it would be very hard to have it recorded.

The point of my stories is that you don't always have a chance to make a
recording when you see something strange.

~~~
64738
Exactly. I believe I saw one or more UFOs when I was kid, maybe 10 or 11 years
old, while riding my bike to a local park. Three or four stationary white
lights in the sky, equidistant from each other. Of note, this was in an early
afternoon mid-summer day without a cloud in the sky. And they weren't drones,
this was in the late 70s.

~~~
Evidlo
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog)

------
moneytide1
It is a tactic within itself to report on your own operations as "something
unidentified that moves in ways we don't understand" just in case it is seen
by the naked eye.

------
chasingthewind
Bad UFOs also covers this ongoing story from a skeptical perspective.

[https://badufos.blogspot.com/](https://badufos.blogspot.com/)

------
sgt101
So, what if the US Airforce.. or CIA.. have technology that can bugger around
with the cockpits and instruments of US Navy fighters? Or arbitrary other
aircraft cockpits.

Now, they don't want to say that they have this, but they want other people
(like the Russians and Chinese and French) to know that they do have it.

Or at least to make them think that they would like them to think that they
have it.

Would you see films like this?

~~~
mimixco
How does fudging instrument displays explain the visual sightings by humans?
No agenda here, but I do think those must be assessed on their own merits or
lack thereof.

~~~
sgt101
Could they be projections onto HUD's? Could the visual systems have been
hijacked as well?

~~~
mimixco
I'm referring to seeing things with _your eyes,_ which several of these people
did.

------
holler
Regardless of whether any of it is real, it's a win-win for TicTac!

~~~
nprateem
It's obviously some viral marketing campaign where they've developed advanced
propulsion systems purely to get in the media.

------
neom
I'm not really one for compilation videos, but I stumbled across this one when
looking for info on the tic tac incident and it's pretty interesting - 4 Most
Compelling Videos Of UFOs:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7pgMfzTEZc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7pgMfzTEZc)

~~~
holler
The thing I don't understand is where did they get the footage of the F-18's
chasing it? And why did they only get/release a few seconds and not the entire
video? If it's this important, then why only release a sneak peek?

------
YeahSureWhyNot
this is probably military needing new legal framework to operate according to
now that china plans to land and stay on the moon, India has tested satellite
shooting weapons and russia has been investing in its 'space force'

~~~
gspetr
Efficient Anti-satellite weapons are low-tech if we are talking about space-
to-space combat.

Heck, I read an article in Russian that argued that bows+arrows or
catapults/ballistae could be efficient weapons when compared to lasers that
you see in SciFi.

~~~
YeahSureWhyNot
claiming to be able to shoot down a satellite with a catapult is not the
craziest argument a russian may have made.

------
duncancarroll
I'm surprised the article doesn't reference the recent Bob Lazar documentary
which deals with this alleged tech from a first-hand perspective (Bob was a
whistleblower in a lab that worked on a kind of gravity drive, according to
him.)

It's quite well-produced, and it's probably the only UFO-related film I
consider worth watching: [https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/bob-lazar-
area-51-flying-s...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/bob-lazar-
area-51-flying-saucers/id1441638753)

~~~
svd4anything
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bob_Lazar&secti...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bob_Lazar&section=3)

I don’t think anyone serious takes Bob Lazar seriously!

~~~
drukenemo
Why not?

~~~
cowboysauce
His story is full of holes. He claims that he has a master’a degree in
physics, but cannot produce a diploma, his master’s thesis of the names of any
classmates or professors. Furthermore, he has never demonstrated that level of
knowledge of physics and the things that he does say are bizarre at best.

There’s no evidence that The facility that he allegedly worked exists. There
isn’t any trace of roads or any infrastructure for it. The location that he
gives is right on the edge of the restricted airspace surrounding Area 51,
which seems odd for a super secret facility.

There are a bunch of little things. In one interview he mentions seeing an
alien through a window in a door. His escort guard tells him not to look.
Somehow the government is able to secretly reverse engineer alien technology,
but can’t spring for some curtains?

To put it simply, there’s no evidence to support it. He has never been able to
produce a sample of any extraterrestrial material nor has he shown that he has
any knowledge that is beyond current physics.

Personally, I’m fond of [this idea]([http://www.otherhand.org/home-
page/area-51-and-other-strange...](http://www.otherhand.org/home-
page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/looking-at-the-bob-lazar-story-from-the-
perspective-of-2018/)). Basically that Bob Lazar schmoozed his way into a job
at Area 51 due to a chance meeting with Edward Teller. He brought people to
watch a classified test (of experimental, but completely terrestrial
technology) and got into deep shit over it.

------
martamorena
I find it funny that people still believe that any alien object reaching us
(just remember the engineering work necessary to do that and how many hundreds
of years if not more we are away from reaching distant planets or galaxies)
could be observed in the visual range or even with any kind of technology we
have. And if they do, then it is on purpose. What purpose is that? Doesn't
earth look tasty to them? It's much more likely that these are some military
prototypes or spy equipment, unmanned drones, etc. or just pure imagination.

------
Geee
If were talking about aliens, I think it's more plausible that these things
live somewhere on the ocean floor rather than on an another planet.

------
BurningFrog
Surely military planes are equipped with enough cameras that they don't have
to rely on verbal pilot eye witness stories for these things?

~~~
dmix
I don’t think there’s a real scientific problem here that needs solving, it’s
mostly appeasing the pilots so they have some bureaucratic black hole to write
down their concerns and management can just say “okay we have a record of it,
we’ll let you know if anything comes up”.

------
brian-armstrong
This article seems to imply it must be a craft of some kind, but I'm not
convinced natural phenomena can be ruled out. As an example, ball lightning is
still not particularly well understood and behaves in rather peculiar seeming
ways. The speed that this 'object' moved at makes much more sense if it's
entirely electromagnetic in nature.

------
ufologist
I think this class of UFO (the floating tic tac) is the result of secret rail
gun testing projects, with novel inertial guidance packages inside them. Hence
the lack of any obvious propulsion. They’re a new kind of guided ballistic
penetrator, maybe with aerogel exteriors, and steerable internals.

~~~
mimixco
How does an object fired from a rail gun _ascend_ from the ocean floor or
hover over it?

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chkaloon
"Someone or something has crossed the technological Rubicon and has obtained
what some would call the Holy Grail of aerospace engineering."

Hyperbole much?

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mrob
"Let me underline this again for you, the Nimitz encounter with the Tic Tac
proved that exotic technology that is widely thought of as the domain of
science fiction actually exists. It is real."

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A blurry video and some
eyewitness reports are not extraordinary evidence. Humans lie all the time,
but very rarely discover new physics.

~~~
Zancarius
With the proliferation of mobile devices, you'd expect there to be an increase
in footage of such sightings with an equivalent increase in quality. Yet
virtually everything available is low quality, grainy rubbish. On the other
hand, the accessibility of video editing software makes such claims dubious at
best regardless of quality or presentation.

I agree with others who've suggested this is either a counter intelligence
effort or the military is doing _something_ and wants to involve others in
"sightings," probably to gauge the success of certain programs. If it's not
some sort of clever projection, those UFOs probably have US markings on them.
Otherwise, the belief it has something to do with aliens is probably wishful
thinking.

I'd recommend listening to John Michael Godier's top 10 lists regarding alien
messages, first contact, or SETI [1] if you want a healthy dose of realism. In
particular, his "10 SETI messages that we may not want to receive" [2] is
especially good, even if the first part is rather depressing.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEszlI8-W79IsU8LSAiRbDg/vid...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEszlI8-W79IsU8LSAiRbDg/videos)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKVpHTMj3XM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKVpHTMj3XM)

~~~
rockinghigh
> With the proliferation of mobile devices, you'd expect there to be an
> increase in footage of such sightings with an equivalent increase in
> quality.

Phones have lenses with wide focal lengths and tiny sensors. You need a very
different device to capture small objects far away from you with high
resolution.

~~~
ithkuil
I recently had a wildfire close to home, and had airplanes flying at very low
altitude. The sight of the belly of those airplanes flying the whole day on
top of my home along with the noise was spectacular so I thought I might
capture a snap to share with my remote coworkers. The result was not even
mediocre; my phone captured a tiny insignificant object in the sky, not that
awe inspiring machine that I just felt grazed my head IRL

------
rogerdickey
Nothing?
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headli...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)

------
sheinsheish
always amazed here at hackernews.

------
781
If these incidents were aliens, I would expect a lot more reactions from the
military, politic, and financial markets. All reactions seem muted.

Secondly, why would aliens reveal themselves in such a way? Either land on the
White House lawn or stay out of sight. This 50 year UFO appearances, with some
but not really a lot of witnesses, don't make sense for me.

~~~
crazynick4
You're trying to reason about 'alien' intelligence in terms of human traits.
What makes you think they are even interested in us at all? Maybe they just
came here to re-up on potassium.

~~~
api
You really can't reason about alien intelligence at all. Look at how hard it
is for, say, a typical American to reason about a devout Muslim in Iran or
vice versa. In that case we are talking about two beings of the same damn
species with a lot of common history.

If aliens are coming here their motives could be anything including irrational
or just non-rational.

I've speculated for a while that a "post-singularity" post-scarcity
intelligence would get... bizarre... due to lack of hard scarcity constraints.
It would just fan out across state space. It would be less Star Trek and more
Lexx. Maybe they do make crop circles as interactive art. Maybe they do
strange stuff to us to slowly convert us to their religion. Who knows? We
can't know.

------
momentmaker
Check out this documentary Sirius:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_-
HLD21hA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_-HLD21hA)

~~~
chimen
I'm quite familiar with S. Greer's work and I would recommend taking all his
documentaries and videos not with one but multiple grains of salt.

~~~
layoutIfNeeded
More like those huge salt licks for horses.

------
dfilppi
There are graduate studies programs shorter than that article.

------
this_is_someone
So, take this for what it's worth. I have known a few individuals who have
been involved in various areas of the military. One was an aircraft engineer
working on black projects. One was in COMSEC. One was a nuclear engineer.

One of them walked into the wrong hanger once and was face-to-face with a disc
type something-or-other that he was not supposed to see, and was basically
told "You didn't see that, and don't ever say you did."

One told of several incidents, and one in particular that was rather
startling, tracking objects across North America that were going at seemingly
impossible speeds and changing vectors in ways that would tear any convention
craft apart. They were picked up on multiple instrument arrays across the
country.

One was working on advanced propulsion, real science fiction type stuff, but
was moved to other projects when he started asking the wrong questions. I'm
being deliberately obtuse here.

There are reliable individuals. They aren't crazy, and they aren't conspiracy
nuts.

I am convinced that these things are not anomalies, and that they are
terrestrial in origin. All but one of my afore-mentioned friends disagree with
me. They think they are alien, but this is only their opinion. None of them
had any "inside" knowledge that the military is aware of alien craft. But when
you are an engineer, and know what's physically possible given our current
level of technology and materials science, I suppose I cannot fault them for
jumping to that conclusion.

The thing is, calling it "alien" doesn't solve that particular difficulty. If
you assume that the things are real, then what they are doing _is_ physically
possible. And if it is physically possible, then it is theoretically possible
for us to do it. So applying occam's razor, you don't need to invoke aliens.
It is far more likely that someone figured it out, especially someones with
multi-billion dollar black budgets working over decades with the brightest
minds on the planet.

