
PayPal Policy Update is bad for users. Opt out while you can. - kirillzubovsky
PayPal is updating their policy and it is not going to be a user-friendly one. The update is neatly hidden on their website and only accessible to logged-in users.
If you do nothing, here is what PayPal will have you sign:<p>1) You cannot sue PayPal, you can only go through arbitration.<p>2) You cannot be part of any class action claim agains PayPal.<p>3) You can only fight against PP individually.<p>To opt-out, you have to submit a written letter, via a postal office.<p>Full PDF copy of the update available here, in case the links breaks - http://sctz.co/c1<p>I heard PayPal wants to be likable by their customers. This update is certainly not helping the case.
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kirillzubovsky
PayPal is updating their polity and it is not going to be a user-friendly one.
The update is neatly hidden on their website and only accessible to logged-in
users.

If you do nothing, there is what PayPal will have you sign:

1) You cannot sue PayPal, you can only go through arbitration. 2) You cannot
be part of any class action claim agains PayPal. 3) You can only fight against
PP individually.

To opt-out, you have to submit a written letter, via a postal office.

Full PDF copy of the update available here, in case the links breaks -
<http://sctz.co/c1>

I heard PayPal wants to be likable by their customers. This update is
certainly not helping the case.

~~~
Daegalus
How is this any different form all the other companies that adopted the same
Anti-Class action policies in the last few months? Whats so special about
Paypal compared to Microsoft, Apple, Google, Steam, etc, that we need this
posted 5 times in the last two weeks, and also constantly making it out to be
so much worse than everyone else. I know everyone loves hating on Paypal but
this is kinda stupid.

~~~
nowarninglabel
Well this is different and unsettling: "Calls to You; Mobile Telephone
Numbers. Section 1.10 is being updated to state: By providing PayPal a
telephone number (including a mobile telephone number), you agree to receive
autodialed and prerecorded message calls at that number..."

~~~
jonathanwallace
Automated phone calls to a number you provide is one of the ways that paypal
authenticates your identity. Welcome to the internet, where anyone can be
anyone!

~~~
sturmeh
That or advertisements.

~~~
Karunamon
Paypal is pretty evil, but I can't think of a single successful company, ever,
who started spamming their own customer's mobiles

~~~
Evbn
Credit card companies do this, which is why I no longer have a Discover Card.

~~~
Karunamon
Discover started sending unsolicited marketing messages to your mobile phone!?

------
bdg
I find the recent onslaught of changes in policy to be insulting to myself,
and your admittance of how you are undeserving of my business. I'm sad it has
come to this. I require this account to be closed.

I further require the removal all of data related to myself from all records
and systems where permitted by law.

Regards,

Brian G.

> You have successfully closed your account.

~~~
pinneycolton
I wrote a very nearly identical letter. After closing my account, they
continued to send mr marketing spam with a broken unsub link. I had to write
another letter requesting to not receive their spam.

~~~
Evbn
That is a $500 CAN-SPAM violation, payable to you, exercisable in real court.

------
femto
Keep in mind that the agreement varies by jurisdiction. For example, the
Australian user agreement is quite different and has not changed since August.

[1] [https://cms.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-
content&c...](https://cms.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-
content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full#22.%20Legal%20disputes)

------
9999
The currency conversion policy is either going to be awesome or suck depending
on what kind of credit card you use with PayPal. Since I have cards that have
no foreign transaction fees, I am guessing it will not be beneficial for
myself. But it might be better for the majority of PayPal users since they
might avoid the 3% foreign transaction fees that most credit card companies
charge. Of course, PayPal might just pass those fees directly on to you with
no way to avoid it... The lack of detail there is annoying.

~~~
brigade
PayPal generally has horrible exchange rates, often to the point that a 3% fee
with your bank's rates is cheaper.

------
ricksta
Look like they intentionally made opt out a pain:

Procedure: You can choose to reject this Agreement to Arbitrate ("opt out") by
mailing us a written opt-out notice ("Opt-Out Notice"). For new PayPal users,
the Opt-Out Notice must be postmarked no later than 30 Days after the date you
accept the User Agreement for the first time. If you are already a current
PayPal user and previously accepted the User Agreement prior to the
introduction of this Agreement to Arbitrate, the Opt-Out Notice must be
postmarked no later than December 1, 2012. You must mail the Opt-Out Notice to
PayPal, Inc., Attn: Litigation Department, 2211 North First Street, San Jose,
CA 95131.

The Opt-Out Notice must state that you do not agree to this Agreement to
Arbitrate and must include your name, address, phone number, and the email
address(es) used to log in to the PayPal account(s) to which the opt-out
applies. You must sign the Opt-Out Notice for it to be effective. This
procedure is the only way you can opt out of the Agreement to Arbitrate. If
you opt out of the Agreement to Arbitrate, all other parts of the User
Agreement, including all other provisions of Section 14 (Disputes with
PayPal), will continue to apply. Opting out of this Agreement to Arbitrate has
no effect on any previous, other, or future arbitration agreements that you
may have with us.

------
gojomo
Please editorialize on your blog, not HN submission titles.

~~~
TeMPOraL
On the other hand, making a blog post just to editorialize title (and capture
traffic) would be blogspam, so maybe in this case it's not bad.

~~~
gojomo
Well, the guidelines
<[http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>](http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>);
used to include an admonition against "gratuitous editorial spin"... but
that's been elided. I still think it's a bad habit that nudges discourse in a
shallower direction.

It's not blogspam if the post explains _why_ we should opt out. At the time I
posted my request, this was _only_ a link to the new policy announcement,
without explanation. It's since changed to a linkless submission with the
supporting argument. That's better -- almost as good as a blogpost (which
would also provide more context on the author's perspective and credibility).

------
swampthing
I fear there is no hope even if you opt out - the vast majority of users
aren't going to opt-out, which significantly reduces the class size, which
will in turn make litigation against Paypal less appealing for most class-
action attorneys. It's kind of evil genius.

------
btipling
I find PayPal incredibly convenient to use and prefer it when I see a PayPal
button than giving my credit card info yet to another vendor. I trust PayPal
more than I trust some random site that just happened to have a belt I wanted
to buy.

I don't move a lot of money through PayPal so to be honest, I don't much care.
:/

------
jobu
Better yet, don't use Paypal.

As a business you now have several decent options for handling your online
Credit Cart or payment processing.

As a consumer most credit cards and banks now make it easy to pay online or
pay people directly.

At one time Paypal served a purpose, but the rest of market has largely caught
up or passed them.

------
ck2
Can't PayPal just terminate your account if you opt-out?

~~~
PufferBuffer
Actually, it seems there is no explanation as to what happens if you choose to
opt out. I imagine they are required o ask you by law, but that's why they are
trying hard not to make it very obvious.

------
rocky1138
The telephone autodialer and SMS thing is... awkward.

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BallinBige
"Hey lets all hate on PayPal and love Stripe" \- HN fanboy, does Peter Thiel
have a stake in Y comb too?

~~~
bdg
Are you suggesting PayPal isn't rolling out awful policies, or are you simply
upset that the status quo here is to embrace Stripe? I'm not sure what your
intentions are.

~~~
BallinBige
no intentions really. just being observational. as you said - the status quo
is quite evident. Also - I am curious if Peter Thiel has a stake in Y comb??

~~~
fredoliveira
I don't know why you would connect someone posting a pro-Stripe/anti-Paypal
rant to Thiel having a stake in Y Combinator. Some people love the conspiracy
theory, I know, but I'd rather HN not become a place for that kind of people.

~~~
BallinBige
because there are motives & affliations: "Stripe's investors include
Andreessen Horowitz, Y Combinator, Sequoia Capital, Peter Thiel, and Elon
Musk"

i'd rather have honesty and not ignorance

*source: <https://stripe.com/jobs>

