
Ask HN: Is it good idea to take protein supplements in your diet? - sunilkumarc
I&#x27;ve a lean body and I&#x27;ve been working out for more than a year. But I&#x27;ve not gained a much of mass and I cannot see much of a difference in my body. I have seen most of the people taking protein supplements and mass gainers everyday who work out. I&#x27;ve also heard some people saying taking supplements is going to have side effects on your body.<p>I would like to know if taking protein supplements and mass gainers is a good idea without any side effects on my health either now &#x2F; later in my life.<p>If this is not a good idea, then what are the other ways to gain mass and gain muscles along with my everyday workout?
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altairiumblue
You have quite a few questions and they're all tangled up together.

1) are there side effects to taking protein supplements or mass gainers?

Practically, no. Whey protein, which is the most common protein supplement
taken around working out, is just concentrated food. It's widely tested and
incredibly safe. A small number of people (including myself) get a lot of
mucus at the back of their throat when they start taking whey protein, but
that's just a rare reaction to large amounts of dairy. The safety of every
supplement would, of course, also depend on the purity and therefore on the
manufacturer so do your due diligence before you buy. But in general people
who warn you against using common supplements such as protein/creatine/bcaa
have done no research and are simply having an adverse reaction to seeing a
powder or a pill.

2) is it a good idea to take protein supplements or mass gainers?

\- mass gainers - pretty much never a good idea. They're just protein + carbs.
Usually with too much carbs and at inflated prices for the concentrations that
you're getting. If for some reason you've decided that you need a protein +
carb supplement, you can get them separately and mix your own shake at the
ratio that you want.

\- protein - maybe. It certainly won't hurt but you would probably expect to
see changes in your body that simply won't happen. If you've worked out for a
year and not seen any progress, it's likely that your training and/or diet
haven't been that good. So adding a protein supplement won't do much.

3) So to give a general outline to solving your problem:

\- make sure that you're training heavy (relative to your ability). Use mainly
compound lifts (squat, deadlift, military press, bench press, pull-up) and get
on a program that would allow you to progressively get stronger and lift more.

\- eat more. This is the biggest factor in gaining weight. Calorie counting
has many problems and usually isn't necessary. But you can start with
recording everything you eat for a period of a couple of days to a week. And
then increase your intake without adding too much junk or sugar. Make sure
you're getting enough protein in your diet in the form of meat/eggs. If this
doesn't work, you're probably still not eating enough.

\- make sure that you're getting 7.5 - 8.5 hours of uninterrupted sleep every
night

\- don't worry about supplements until you start seeing progress from training
and diet. And don't expect to see significant results just from adding a
supplement.

~~~
sawmurai
This. So much this.

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rofo1
Why do you need to gain mass at all? That makes no sense at all. Why would you
voluntarily make yourself heavier? You are taxing your organs and your whole
body.

Stay lean, stay fit and stay strong, you do not need mass for anything else
other than perhaps vanity.

I exercise daily for years, and that's my take on the situation.

There's not a single "test" that says that you are healthier that is based on
the amount of "mass" that you have. It's such a bad metric, it's completely
useless.

Your first priority should be health. I am really not convinced that there are
no side-effects of taking concentrated protein (that needs to be processed by
your body). People selling/using concentrated protein will claim so, but we
weren't designed for that. Our organs weren't designed to be used like that.

~~~
omeid2
I understand that at some point gaining weight becomes a vanity thing, but
there is good reasons for gaining muscles, they're rather good energy source
to sustain you if you're planning to do long distance hiking or sailing for
example.

~~~
rofo1
That's widely inaccurate, as far as I know. After you spend your glycogen
reserves and then fat, then and only then the muscle tissue is broken and
eventually used as energy. That happens if you have no other source of energy
(starvation? or something), so this is definitely not normal behavior.

~~~
omeid2
Actually not at all, you don't need to have burnt through all your fat for
your body to enter Catabolism, if that was the case you would never lose
muscles without starvation which is of course not the case. I think everyone
who wants to comment on the issue of weight and diet should understand the
basics of Metabolism, it is not that complicated:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism)

------
siliconc0w
They're a good idea in that increased protein intake is widely considered
necessary to gain muscle and whey is widely considered safe. The other side of
this coin is that supplements are unregulated so there are various degrees of
quality on offer. Also some forms of protein are probably 'safer' than others
for most people. For example soy is very bio-active and there are studies
showing it having various effects to various degrees (good and bad). So
basically stick to whey-products and use something like labdoor quality
rankings([https://labdoor.com/rankings/protein/quality](https://labdoor.com/rankings/protein/quality))
to inform you purchase decisions, use in moderation(i.e one shake after a
workout) and you should be fine.

My rationale is that I enjoy lifting more than other types of exercise,
supplemental protein helps me gain more muscle and get better at it (which I
also enjoy), if I didn't do that then I probably wouldn't lift and would
suffer the well known risks of not exercising. So known risks vs unknown
risks.

Basically health research is a shitshow. It turns out a lot of it isn't
reproducible. We've been horribly wrong about what is and isn't healthful many
times in the past. Be skeptical, do research, and you'll still probably be
wrong but at least you tried.

(also I'm an engineer/nerd not a M.D and have no formal training in anything-
this is merely data being processed by your visual system generating thought)

------
workoutmuch
For what purpose are you trying to gain mass?

Unless you are very thin - like with a BMI of 19 - Isn't that a bad thing?
Doesn't it significantly shorten your life?

Working out and staying thin is probably a good thing.

Is there a reason to do it if not to be healthier?

Here's a paper taking such a stance:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4115619/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4115619/)

------
tiew9Vii
Taking protein as a "supplement" won't harm you. Remember it's a "supplement"
so should be supplementing / topping up your diet.

If you have not gained any mass or noticed any physical/strength changes I'll
almost guarantee you are under eating, you need to eat a big amount of good
quality carbs such as rice and sweet potato,a good amount of protein and as
much vegies as you can.

When you cannot eat anymore and full that's when protein shakes help as it's a
easy way to get calories in. Likewise it's an easy way to get calories in if
you are don't have time to eat for example in between meetings.

I've struggled to gain real mass, plateaued for a long time. Biggest
improvement for me was going simple after getting a PT, 200grams carbs and 200
grams of meat per meal 5 times a day with a side of green vegies, I don't
count vegies, just as much as I can eat. If the food looses weight while
cooking (sweet potato) weigh it after cooking, if it gains weight while
cooking (rice) weigh it uncooked.

Training wise concentrate on the big compounds, bench, deadlifts and squats to
get some mass.

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snyena
It should be fairly easy to cover the protein needs for your goals with
regular food without having to resort to protein powder so this is what I'd
recommend. Just make sure you are in a slight caloric surplus. Also, using
compound movements (as opposed to isolation exercises) and applying the
principles of progressive overload seems to produce optimal results.

------
radicalbyte
It sounds like you're not training hard enough or are not doing the correct
training for your goal.

Are you specifically training for size gain? Are you doing the big three
(bench press, squat, deadlift)? Are you training your muscles to complete
exhaustion each set - which means that your last rep is the one you cannot
physically complete? Are you increasing the weights if you're hitting the
target reps on the first set? Are you taking rest days and getting enough
sleep?

Honestly you should probably talk to a trainer at your gym, they'll be able to
sort you out. I can also highly recommend ATHLEAN-X on youtube
([https://www.youtube.com/user/JDCav24](https://www.youtube.com/user/JDCav24)),
he really knows what he's talking about.

~~~
hnnh44
Nobody should be going to exhaustion on each set. It's not only unnecessary,
it's counter productive.

Focusing on the big 3 for gaining mass is good advice. So is hiring a trainer
- just make sure they walk the talk (they look like you want to look, not
skinnyfat with a BS certificate)

------
omeid2
As with everything, it depends on the product. Whey Protein Concentrate is a
very good value and common protein which is made from milk, to some extent it
is basically concentrated milk power sans casein.

But protein alone wouldn't do the trick, for muscle protein synthesis you need
the amino acid precursors. There is a lot of inconclusive research on the
topic.

Also, the most important thing is that you don't grow muscles at the gym or
while you work but when you rest, muscle growth is muscle recovery so make
sure you get a lot of high quality sleep and stay hydrated for better
anabolism.

[0] [https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-
ab&q=bcaa](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&q=bcaa) protein
digestion site%3Aresearchgate.net

------
qwerty456127
Is that true that casein is better than ordinary whey protein and BCAAs don't
make much difference?

------
ykevinator
Cows eat grass and are able to amass hundreds of pounds of beef (and bones).
The need for protein and calcium supplements is wildly overstated.

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erdo
I've been going to the gym fairly consistently for about 20 years, here's my
personal experience for what it's worth.

[the real answer is: it's complicated, no one knows for sure and it will
probably depend on personal circumstances anyway - like security, in nutrition
anyone who says they know something 100% is talking out of their ass, we just
don't know enough yet]

For more than 30 years already, body building community has been saying that
you need more than a certain amount of calories, (especially from protein) in
your diet to increase muscle mass. The first thing I read against sugar, was
in Arnold Swartzeneger's biography circa 1997.

Slowly over the decades the general public seems to have come round to that
conclusion too - more protein seems to be a good thing for your health and
strength, sugar seems to be bad.

Personally, at around 18 years old I started taking protein powders, not
consistently because I couldn't afford it, roughly a few months on, a few
months off. And they do appear to work. They are very easy to prepare and
drink, some taste delicious. Downsides: some of them contain a lot of sugar,
and as a differentiator a lot contain various custom chemical compounds which
claim to give you and extra few percent effect - I strongly suspect this is
mainly bulltish, potentially harmful to your health, or even if it does give
you an extra few percent, it's not worth the extra money.

Here's the killer though: the moment you stop taking protein powder, the
muscle seems to disappear.

I don't know why. Maybe when you take protein powder you get used to eating
less food, and this stays with you when you stop taking the powder. Maybe it's
because I was younger then. Maybe it's a deliberate short term boost by the
manufacturer to dissuade people from giving up their product (not sure we know
enough to do that, but it's possible I guess)

In any case, over the years I have switched to getting extra protein simply by
eating a lot of food, it's probably healthier because it's more varied, the
fact that the food also includes salads and beans and so on means that I am
getting all sorts of extra micronutrients we don't know a lot about. Downsides
to this is that depending on where you live and what your lifestyle is like,
it can be difficult to just eat twice as much as the average person does. Lack
of appetite can become a problem if the food is not delicious - for that I
would really recommend staying away from anything sweet at least until you've
finished all the protein on your plate, e.g. orange juice.

The amazing thing about building muscle mass from regular food (for me at
least) is that the muscle doesn't immediately disappear if I go on holiday for
two weeks, or even just don't each much for a month. Granted, I can't be sure
that isn't just because I am older.

Another thing I've come I realise is that lots of food in general seems to
work, even when it's not particularly focused on proteins like chicken, eggs
etc. I've met vegans who are still fairly buff which is something I would
never have believed was possible 10 years ago.

Maybe it goes without saying but food is only one part of the challenge. To
get muscle mass you need three things usually (and if one is missing, gains
don't come): Food&water, Resistance exercise, Sleep&rest

What the other person said about compound exercises is really true. Squats in
particular are some kind of magic exercise, they seem to boost your appetite
and drive muscle mass everywhere in you body. If the gym you use doesn't have
a squat rack and lots of free weights, look for another gym. It's especially
important to be safe and use correct technique for squats.

The main thing about gains is just don't give up searching for what works for
you. Eventually it clicks.

------
dagoat
It’s likely a lack of calories. You’ll need a surplus to gain any mass. Keep
in mind that you will gain fat and muscle at the same time - if you’re already
lean then you’ll gain relatively lean too. But understand you will get
“fatter” too

Sounds like if you workout already and aren’t seeing results you probably
aren’t eating enough. But your workout might also not be ideal.

For things diet related Alan Aragon is a decent resource. If you’re visual
Jeff Nippard on YouTube isn’t bad.

For calculating your daily intake requirements:
[https://tdeecalculator.net](https://tdeecalculator.net) isn’t terrible.

As it sounds like you’re an ectomorph, I’d suggest going higher carb.

Using the linked calculator, you should be given a macronutrient split and
total calorie intake for bulking.

Try following that for 4 weeks.

I’d suggest picking up a scale that measures body fat too. They aren’t
completely accurate, but better than nothing. Something like:
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N1UX8RW](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N1UX8RW)

You should get a couple of baseline readings from this in the mornings now.
After 4 weeks of bulking get a couple more.

Once you start to plateau, increase your calories by 3-500 (try to keep the
same macronutrient split).

Repeat this process.

Decide what amount of body fat you are ok with and bulk until you reach that.
Then decide what you’d like to do from there

You should plan to bulk for 3-6 months at a time to notice a real difference.

I’m sure you are already, but drink plenty of water. 2-4L of fluid per day
(water, milk, etc). Keep in mind that your body can only handle around ~800ml
per hour - so if you’re behind don’t try to “catch up” because you’ll end up
dehydrating yourself. I’d post a source for this, but I’m on phone

Make sure you eat enough fiber, don’t overdo added sugars, etc

As for should you use protein supplements:

Only if you cannot (for whatever reason) eat the required amount from food.

I use protein supplementation, but I also get a lot from milk, meat, eggs, etc

Protein supplements are not harmful and you shouldn’t experience side effects.
Just don’t rely on them heavily (I use at most 2 scoops a day) and choose
quality brands.

There’s a lot more to gaining mass than I’ve posted here, but what I’ve posted
isn’t a bad start.

Make sure you’re working out with intensity, giving yourself adequate rest,
sleeping enough, reducing stress, not training to failure all the time, and
progressing steadily in your workouts.

As others have stated, adding mass and eating more is taxing to the body in
the long run. So staying lean and eating less might be more beneficial for you
long term

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gralx
What you call mass gaining is called hypertrophy (hy-PER-truh-fee) in sports
science literature.

Broadly speaking there are two types of hypertrophy you can develop: athletic
(sport-specific) hypertrophy and bodybuilding hypertrophy. Both make your
muscles visibly bigger. You see athletic hypertrophy in elite American
football players, MMA athletes, powerlifters, track sprinters, and Olympic
weightlifters, to name just a few sports. Athletic hypertrophy increases
muscle cross section size, which in turn increases your capacity to generate
force. Bodybuilding hypertrophy makes you look even bigger, but at the cost of
speed and capacity to exert force - you will be less athletic. However, no one
denies that Ahnold looked great back in the day.

Here is Bompa's general prescription for athletic hypertrophy in chapter 12 of
Periodization Training in Sport (2015):

> ... training for sport-specific hypertrophy requires heavy loads with
> minimal rest and high number of sets to increase the density (thickness) of,
> and amount of protein in, the prime movers. This way, hypertrophy training
> for sports is long lasting because the increase in muscle size is based on
> the increase in strength.

That means lifting a weight eight to fourteen times exhaustively (i.e., a
fifteenth rep would be impossible), taking a very short break, and then
repeating that set to exhaustion. It's psychologically taxing and can be
dangerous (Dorian Yates worked out only 45 minutes a day, three times a week,
but they were extremely taxing workouts and he freely admits using anabolic
steroids to do this). Before really taxing yourself, master the lifting
techniques and build up core strength (Stuart McGill) and flexibility.
Endurance work also prepares you by improving your ability to recover between
sets.

Bompa goes on to describe two phases of hypertrophy training in order to
simplify program design. The first "uses various bodybuilding techniques to
optimize muscle exhaustion and growth", and the second "refers to sport-
specific hypertrophy", which depends on the activity you want the larger
muscles for.

Athletic hypertrophy training should be restricted to less than two
macrocycles a year, or less than ten weeks total. The rest of the year should
be spent training in specific sports or improving your general physical
preparedness. Generally a year-long or biannual training period starts with
prehab/rehab/general physical preparedness, moves on to hypertrophy, moves
from there on to maximum strength training, and finishes with the bulk of the
athlete's time spent doing specialized strength training (for power, power-
endurance, or muscular endurance of short, medium, or long duration) and
sport-specific drills.

All this muscular training is yin to the yang of energy systems training,
which is trained concurrently and has its own set of prescriptions, depending
on what physiological adaptations you desire.

Note that athletic hypertrophy does not make you very strong - you need
maximum strength training for that effect, which has a different prescription.
See in particular Bompa, Zatsiorsky, or Siff for advice about maximum strength
training.

As for protein, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly the American
Dietetic Association), the American College of Sports Medicine, and Dieticians
of Canada have for years submitted a joint position paper on nutrition for
sports that recommended a daily consumption of no more than 1.5 grams protein
per kilogram of body mass for weightlifters. Bompa cites other sources who
indicate as much as 2.0 grams protein per kilogram body mass can benefit some
athletes, but that is not the consensus position.

~~~
altairiumblue
This reads like you're trying to show off how familiar you are with the
literature rather than give good advice. The distinction that you make about
the different types of hypertrophy isn't necessary or relevant and the sources
that you cite have a completely different target audience from the author of
the original post.

What is technically correct and what is useful advice are completely different
things.

~~~
gralx
Everything you just wrote is either wrong or whimsical.

TL;DR: To get hypertrophy, lift a weight more than seven times but less than
fifteen times and to exhaustion; take a short break; repeat to exhaustion. For
protein, eating 1.5 gram per kilogram body mass is the consensus in the
scientific literature, though some figures go up to as much as 2.0 grams.

Everything else I wrote reasonably assumes OP is interested in the topic and
would appreciate primary sources. Those are not far-fetched assumptions.

------
DyslexicAtheist
what my body taught me over the years is that it's healthier to subtract
rather than add things. more on point to your question, my approach is to
defer anything that is applied via "artificial" means to a stage where I've
exhausted all other options. (no sugars, no coffee unless just before workout,
etc, ...) In your case I'd eat fresh tofu or more fish or whatever
appropriate. And once you are at that limit at a stable weight add your
supplement and then see if it makes any change. Also to gain weight you need
to give yourself enough recovery time between workouts.

I did take supplements during the years of extensive training, and I wasn't
ashamed to pick from the top-shelf price-range (not to boast but to show who
silly I was wasting money like I did), but they only had a placebo effect,
left a hole in my wallet. In my 20ies to mid-30ies I was never able to gain
enough body weight even I worked out 5x/week I still remained looking like a
skinny & wired free-climber (faster metabolism I guess so I couldn't keep the
weight no matter how much protein I took). Back then I wanted to have a
_proper man chest_ [1] like actors in action movie posters but instead looked
like a slightly fit Iggy Pop (picture Iggy Pop doing supplements and a strict
routine instead of heroin and orgies ... and you have the image of what I
looked like vs what I wanted to look like)

Reason for why I stopped take vitamins is that they can never give me the
other nutrients and minerals (yes there are extra supplements for that but -
who got time for that?). A healthy fresh (even raw) diet doesn't just have the
vitamins. It has useful fiber and also contain a gazillion other things ...
(sure you can get fiber by eating bran at every breakfast - but why torture
myself more than during exercise?)

Ofc if you like bran don't let me put you off, but my point is that most of
the health-foods-supplements industry is a con and has profit at their
interest and not always our health (pills that don't do damage but also don't
improve anything have always been huge business (e.g. the whole homeopathic
profession is built on such cons)

[1] doesn't Manchester like a perfect name for a moob-bra? /s so sorry

------
DanBC
Why the fuck would you ask random Internet strangers, especially on HN of all
places, rather than paying some money to ask a qualified dietitian to get
evidence based advice from someone with a professional qualification, and
professional registration?

~~~
sunilkumarc
Because I fucking care about this community. And there are people here to
fucking helping each other!

