
Facebook reportedly discredited critics by linking them to George Soros - nsedlet
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/14/facebook-george-soros-pr-firm-discredit-critics-crisis
======
abrowne
The original source is
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/technology/facebook-
data-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/technology/facebook-data-russia-
election-racism.html)

~~~
sctb
Discussion here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18453958](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18453958).

------
ada1981
If you work for Facebook, what do you do in this situation?

Can you all please just leave? Is there some acceptable amount of collateral
damage for you to maintain your lifestyle?

I’ll personally help you reconnect to your purpose and go out and live a life
you’ve dreamed of.

Go start a company better than Facebook and hire all the people.

~~~
peterlk
Also, if you use facebook, stop. I haven't used facebook in years, and I feel
pretty fine. I still have friends; we hang out; we show each other pictures.
And, best of all, our communication isn't being injected with ads meant to
distract us from communicating with each other. Texting, email, slack,
whatsapp (yes, I know), signal, discord, and gchat work pretty well. If you're
a user of FB, stop, and their power over you and your friends will begin to
evaporate (if that's something you're concerned about)

~~~
ravenstine
> whatsapp (yes, I know)

Hold on a sec... what do you mean by this?

How is using WhatsApp or Instagram not essentially the same thing as
continuing to use Facebook?

~~~
snazz
I’m not sure why aside from the fact that end-to-end encryption should make it
harder (impossible in theory) for them to read your messages. They still have
access to your contacts book, which is kinda scary since some people I know
keep Social Security numbers in their contacts.

~~~
mayniac
They don't have to be able to read your messages server-side to pick out
keywords client-side and send those unencrypted.

It would still be truthful: all messages are encrypted e2e, but the app on
your device parses decrypted messages to "deliver relevant ads".

Also:

>kinda scary since some people I know keep Social Security numbers in their
contacts.

That is absolutely terrifying.

------
mixmastamyk
Always found the obsession about Soros odd, how can one guy be at the root of
everything wrong in the world, like a comic-book super-villain? Just because
he donates to some political causes, like most billionaires?

~~~
xpaulbettsx
Right-wing people have decided that George Soros is a proxy / representative
for "globalism" (an anti-semitic dog-whistle). When people are angry at Soros,
it is a dog-whistle for prejudice / hatred against Jewish people. It's not
obvious that this is the case to people outside of right-wing groups, which is
why it gets so much unexplained press.

~~~
devmunchies
but jews DO make up a majority of the top 1%. it doesn't have to be hatred
against jewish people. its just talking about the facts. sounds like textbook
social justice.

I don't agree with it, but i see the hypocrisy in being able to talk about
whites (who make up the majority of the top 10%), but not the jews (who make
up a majority of the top 1%).

I'm in the camp that recognizes success, but seeks to be associated with it
and emulate it rather than "dog-whistle" as you say (I work at a jewish
company)

~~~
the_zisko
Wtf is a jewish company? Get your head on straight dude. This is the type of
hatred where you misattribute your boss' success to their "otherness" which
makes anti-semitism so elusive. Re-evaluate.

~~~
devmunchies
Sorry for responding late but my company gets all the Jewish holidays off and
most of the leaders are Jewish. We even work half days on Friday in
preparation for sabbath. There’s no hatred or “anti” anything. Quite the
opposite.

------
nemild
I spent the last two years reflecting on FB (was an early employee in social
media), and put some reflections on the bubble at Facebook:

[https://www.nemil.com/tdf/part1-employees.html](https://www.nemil.com/tdf/part1-employees.html)

 _Management will laud what employees do, show them selective facts that
justify their views, and hire /promote those who behave similarly to them.
Employees in isolated teams with training in a single function may not realize
the broad, unintended effects of their company's work. They'll assume the best
of their friends and coworkers, without inquiring into the larger effects
they're having._

------
travisoneill1
Interesting difference in opinions between this thread and this recent post
about FB needing to censor it's platform:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18458938](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18458938)

Not sure why the surprise. Pretty obvious that FB (and all other entities)
will use it's power only to advance its own interests.

> People just submitted it. I don't know why. They "trust me" Dumb fucks.

\- Mark Zuckerberg

------
InTheArena
Just like the last election, they literally played both sides of this. For
thoose of you who don't know, Soros is a the Koch boogyman of the alt-right,
and the frequent conspiracy charges against him start with the fact that he is
Jewish.

"Facebook employed a Republican opposition-research firm to discredit activist
protesters, in part by linking them to the liberal financier George Soros. It
also tapped its business relationships, lobbying a Jewish civil rights group
to cast some criticism of the company as anti-Semitic.

In Washington, allies of Facebook, including Senator Chuck Schumer, the
Democratic Senate leader, intervened on its behalf. And Ms. Sandberg wooed or
cajoled hostile lawmakers, while trying to dispel Facebook’s reputation as a
bastion of Bay Area liberalism."

In other words, they hired someone to make racist claims, and then hired
someone to call anyone who criticized facebook racists. Then they got engaged
with political groups on both sides, to play into stereotypes.

This is literally the tactics that Putin used in the last election. I wonder
who he got it from

------
qbaqbaqba
So, were the critics connected to Open Society Foundation on any other Soros
controlled organisation?

Also, describing him as a philanthropist and not mentioning his shady
businesses like causing "Black Wednesday" or what he did to Thailand is...
curious.

And the fact he's Jewish doesn't make looking into his actions racist.

------
groth
this is embarassing

------
jandrese
Has any George Soros conspiracy theory ever panned out? Hearing his name come
up is a bright red flag that the person you're talking to has had his brain
poisoned by right wing nutjobs.

~~~
danharaj
There's a reason why George Soros is singled out among liberal billionaires by
certain right wing groups, and it certainly isn't evidence.

~~~
kurthr
I assume you mean singled out by Russian trolls because of Putin's dislike for
him?

~~~
danharaj
No. It's a tradition far older than that.

~~~
asianthrowaway
If that were true, why George Soros and not other liberal jewish billionaires,
who no doubt exist? I think it's absurd to state that he's not being singled
out due to his political activities.

~~~
danharaj
Well, first of all, something like antisemitism doesn't have to be self-
consistent to be a thing. Second of all, actually, other Jewish billionaires
are also targeted: [https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/politics/tom-steyer-
mccarthy-...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/politics/tom-steyer-mccarthy-
tweet/index.html)

I don't understand what you're so skeptical about. What is the standard of
evidence for antisemitism you're seeking? I'm not going to find many
mainstream adherents to Soros conspiracy theories that are going to flat-out
admit it, am I?

~~~
asianthrowaway
> I don't understand what you're so skeptical about. What is the standard of
> evidence for antisemitism you're seeking?

I suppose a good counter example would be liberal jewish billionaires being
attacked despite not contributing to liberal philanthropic endeavors. Or non-
jewish liberal billionaire philanthropists NOT being attacked despite
contributing on the same scale as George Soros.

I'm just saying that the "George Soros is only being targeted because he's
jewish" argument is a shitty cop out.

~~~
moorhosj
> I'm just saying that the "George Soros is only being targeted because he's
> jewish" argument is a shitty cop out.

You are moving the goalposts. You first asked why only Soros was being
targeted and not other liberal, Jewish billionaires. That was proven false
(Bloomberg, Steyer also targeted) and now you are trying out a new line of
reasoning that is just as thin.

~~~
asianthrowaway
> You are moving the goalposts. You first asked why only Soros was being
> targeted and not other liberal, Jewish billionaires.

How I am moving the goalposts? The initial comment I replied to was "There's a
reason why George Soros is singled out among liberal billionaires by certain
right wing groups, and it certainly isn't evidence.", which I think I
correctly interpreted as claiming that Soros was only being targeted for being
jewish.

> That was proven false (Bloomberg, Steyer also targeted)

I've never heard of this Steyer guy, I know Bloomberg and I'm not aware that
he's banned from Hungary, or that he has a dedicated wikipedia page to
"Bloomberg conspiracy theories", so I don't think he can be remotely compared
to Soros.

So yeah I don't know what you're talking about, honestly.

~~~
moorhosj
Here's your quote I responded to:

"why George Soros and not other liberal jewish billionaires, who no doubt
exist?"

Evidence was provided to prove that other liberal Jewish billionaires have, in
fact, been targeted.

> I've never heard of this Steyer guy, I know Bloomberg and I'm not aware that
> he's banned from Hungary, or that he has a dedicated wikipedia page to
> "Bloomberg conspiracy theories", so I don't think he can be remotely
> compared to Soros.

This is more goalpost moving. Nobody claimed they were targeted more than
Soros or that you knew who they were. None of that changes the fact that they
are liberal, Jewish billionaires who have been targeted. This is the criteria
you created.

------
cat199
shady spin issues aside -

because some people criticize george soros for antisemitic reasons,
automatically all criticism of george soros is antisemitic?

then again this opinion is from ADL which states that anti zionism is
automatically anti semitism (effectively calling huge numbers of hassidic jews
anti semitic)

oops, i criticized. must be a nazi.

------
api
What is the deal with George Soros anyway and why is he such a bogey man to
the far right?

~~~
lawnchair_larry
He’s one of the most wealthy contributors to left wing activism. It has
absolutely nothing to do with him being jewish - those claims demonstrate the
ignorance of the left regarding how right-leaning voters (who are
overwhelmingly pro-israel due to their religious beliefs) think. Same thing
the left says about Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson (also Jewish, oops, there
goes that theory), etc, just reversed.

The left’s complete failure to understand the other side is why they were so
shocked that Trump got elected. And it looks like we are in for a repeat in
2020, since they’ve learned nothing.

~~~
tacomonstrous
One difference between the Kochs, Adelson, et al and Soros is that for the
former there is a very obvious link between the causes they fund and benefits
to their own business empires (this is particularly stark with Adelson). Soros
is harder to pin down and seems to be genuinely interested in the causes he
supports, not just out of personal interest.

~~~
partiallypro
The Kochs are libertarians, anything they do will be viewed as simply wanting
to help their own business, even though that is not true when you actually
evaluate what they have said.

I personally don't think the Kochs nor Soros are bad people, and likely want
what they view as what is best for society. They put their money where their
mouths are, nothing nefarious about that. If the Kochs were only for their own
self interests their main focus right now wouldn't be criminal justice reform.

~~~
uniacid
So a few donations to seemingly good causes make them good?

Don't be easily fooled by their "generosity" as it's not always as it seems to
be, many times they fund "independent" organizations or think tanks which
really are just foils for them to push their Conservative agenda.

[https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/we-now-know-
how-...](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/we-now-know-how-the-koch-
brothers-and-leonard-leo-buy-special-favors.html)

[https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/trump-koch-
brot...](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/trump-koch-brothers-
deregulation-white-house/)

[https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-
denier...](https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-deniers/koch-
industries/)

[https://www.ucsusa.org/publications/got-science/2017/got-
sci...](https://www.ucsusa.org/publications/got-science/2017/got-science-
feb-2017)

I can keep going on, so please don't paint them as just some "nice" guys who
give money.

~~~
partiallypro
You do know that Soros also funds think tanks, right?

Anyhow, you just cited 4 left leaning sites, so that's not helpful (and
actually proves my point in other parts of this thread!) Charles Koch himself
does not deny climate change (you can read about this in actual news sites
like the Washington Post,) he is against corporate welfare like the government
directly/indirectly subsidizing Tesla, etc. Which is perfectly in line with
his libertarianism.

Even the one source you could argue is somewhat "real," was from an opinion
writer. Here's the rest of his pieces, which uh, don't seem so unbiased.
[https://slate.com/author/mark-joseph-stern](https://slate.com/author/mark-
joseph-stern)

------
cagenut
as long as peter thiel's on the board you generally have to assume they're
doing _at least_ this level of scummy shit.

~~~
misiti3780
this comment is ridiculous - what could you possibly have to back that up ?
just because you do not agree with his political view doesn't mean everything
he does is with bad intentions and "scummy".

~~~
cronix
Personally, I find Palantir pretty scummy. I don't see how what they are doing
is much different than what China is doing. It's the tech that empowers the
modern day police state. They might even be using Palintir there. We can't
even find out where it's deployed in the USA. This is the type of tech that we
can do without, imho.

[https://www.wired.com/story/how-peter-thiels-secretive-
data-...](https://www.wired.com/story/how-peter-thiels-secretive-data-company-
pushed-into-policing/)

[https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-
thiel...](https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-thiel/)

[https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-
predict...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-predictive-
policing-tool-new-orleans-nopd)

~~~
Aunche
This is somewhat tangential, but what exactly does Palantir do? From what I
understand, they're a glorified consulting company that does data
visualization, so why do they get so much attention?

~~~
licyeus
One of their primary functions is helping governments track people [1]. They
market their suite as aiding the fight against crime/terrorism, but many argue
that they're providing tools to governments to track their own citizens (see
GP's Bloomberg link). I fall into the latter camp.

There are even some old (fairly unrevealing) demos on Youtube [2]

1 - [https://www.wired.co.uk/article/joining-the-
dots](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/joining-the-dots)

2 -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51YYljuz4u4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51YYljuz4u4)

