
China holding at least 800k Muslim minorities in internment camps - onetimemanytime
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/419855-state-dept-official-china-holding-800k-uighurs-others-in-internment
======
TaylorAlexander
I was talking politics with my friend from Iran. Having grown up in the US,
I’m bitter that the American dream has been broken, and that our desire for
“freedom” only includes freedom to commit war crimes and support horrific
wars.

But my friend from Iran said he likes America and we have it pretty good here.
I saw it as a valid difference of perspectives. Later I learned of a massacre
in Iran where the government of Iran killed thousands of political prisoners
in secret. [1] It helped me appreciate that for all our problems, at least we
don’t do that.

That said, we’re currently providing direct support for a war in Yemen where
an estimated 85k children have died of in the last three years [2], and
countless civilians have been killed by our bombs. We even bombed a school bus
full of children [3].

The death toll for our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are over 200k [4].

So it’s hard for me. Does the US respect human rights? Clearly China is not
respecting human rights, but what kind of example are we setting? How can we
condemn others for their atrocities when we ourselves commit so many? Could we
ever change our ways and set a true good example?

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_executions_of_Iranian_p...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_executions_of_Iranian_political_prisoners)
[2] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/21/yemen-young-
ch...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/21/yemen-young-children-
dead-starvation-disease-save-the-children) [3]
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/19/us-supplied-
bo...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/19/us-supplied-bomb-that-
killed-40-children-school-bus-yemen) [4]
[https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians)

~~~
existencebox
I honestly have to ask. Why does this come up in _every thread_ about china.
I'm not even going to pull out the "whataboutism" meme but I have to nod at it
as it seems relevant. What happened to observing "this is horrific and looks a
lot like levels of oppression we've seen end very badly in recent history."
I'm all for introspection and self-flagellation, but these are parallel
discussions, and the latter shouldn't supplant focus on elements _clearly_
discrete in magnitude and potential future risk.

Post-hoc edit: I almost wish I had made this as a top level comment to avoid
seeming to fixate your reply in particular, because it's by no means alone or
the sole focus of my observation.

~~~
throwaway5032
It’s about putting things in perspective.

For example, there is the often cited “1 million Muslims” in jail figure,
which seems like a lot. 1 million!

But if know that there are over 2.2 million people in US prisons, then that 1
million figure doesn’t seem so high anymore.

I think providing a full perspective to those who are not as familiar with the
topic can add to the discussion.

~~~
ArchTypical
The Chinese penal system is separate with an official count of over 1.5
million.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_system_in_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_system_in_China)

> I think providing a full perspective to those who are not as familiar with
> the topic can add to the discussion

I don't think you do. Making such an apples to nails comparison as the US
prison system vs secret Chinese re-education camp is counter-productive.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-
education_camps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps)

------
bitxbitxbitcoin
Anecdata: I have heard of Xinjiang origin Chinese tech and academia workers in
the states that are actively avoiding returning home so they don't end up in
such a camp or causing one of their relatives to end up in such a camp.

------
Cypher
How many do we hold? are we comparing or complaining?

------
ileri62
inb4 someone blames communism or calls china communist again

~~~
dang
Please don't do this here.

