
India Loses Dogfight, and Questions Arise About Its ‘Vintage’ Military - ilamont
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/03/world/asia/india-military-united-states-china.html
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nitinreddy88
How we are quoting it as "Loses" Dogfight.

Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG 21 shot down PAK F16. In return MiG 21 was shot
down by other F16.

I agree that IAF needs immediate replacement with latest generation fighters.

~~~
Cookingboy
So far there have been no evidence that a PAK F16 was downed by IAF, not
saying it didn't happen, but Pakistan has denied it and India hasn't supplied
any evidences either.

~~~
amriksohata
[https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-
shares-f-16-evidence...](https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-
shares-f-16-evidence-with-us-to-highlight-misuse-says-brigade-and-battalion-
hqs-were-targeted-2053143.html)

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devoply
India is the new USA proxy, Pakistan having lost that privileged by aligning
with China, and Pakistan is the new China proxy. This will end badly for both
of them. India will spend billions on military with huge armament upgrades
from uncle Sam. It will get into conflicts it could've easily avoided and it
will probably hurt its economy doing so in the long run. Only idiots become
proxies of superpowers who don't have friends only interests.

Chinese claim their plane was used to down the Indian plane. China will
probably arm Pakistan to the brink as well. India will be dealing solely with
Pakistan.

[https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2188196/did...](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2188196/did-
pakistan-use-its-chinese-jf-17-jets-shoot-down-indian-planes)

~~~
godelmachine
Forgive me for being so bold as to call you an utterly ignorant person, devoid
of any ground realities of South Asian politics.

If history is anything to go by, India has never been anyone’s proxy.

Pakistan allowed its land to be used as military bases for US during wars and
also peace times. They armed the Mujahideen’s to the teeth with assistance
from CIA to wage proxy war against USSR.

It’s a known fact that the most murderous terrorists in the world find safe
havens in Pakistan, bin Laden being one among them. Furthermore, the top brass
of military and ISI establishment is in cahoots with these terrorists.

That sir, is what you call a proxy.

Remind me of one instance where India allowed foreign powers to use its land
or resources for anything that would serve a foreign powers purpose?

I don’t know your allegiance but all of your comments are pro-Pakistani +
Anti-India.

As far as things ending badly is concerned, be rest assured, India is sensible
enough to fend-off on its own. Ever since it’s independence it has managed to
hold itself well in world politics, whereas Pakistan, if anything, has made a
strong impression of warmongering + biggest terror exporting country.

~~~
devoply
I don't have any allegiances, however Indians seem to come around and argue
for how pure and forthright India is and anyone who is critical of both sides
is pro-Pakistan which is bullshit. Indians for whatever historical reason are
salty about all sorts of criticisms and try to justify everything to try to
seem as if they could do no wrong.

Pakistan similarly accuses India of sponsoring terrorism on its territory:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulbhushan_Jadhav](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulbhushan_Jadhav)

Historically you are correct that India has not been a proxy. However, right
wing Hindu nationalists may easily push it in that direction. It remains to be
seen what actually happens going forward. But you can be sure that Israel has
its own agenda which it's carrying out in India with the help of the current
government and so does the US.

Whether India succumbs to that, and it's obvious that this is happening
because before this latest event India had not invaded Pakistan since the
1960s. So let me to be bold and say you are an ignorant person not paying
attention to the realities of today and how they are not in line with the
past.

~~~
godelmachine
Sir, with all due respect, may I remind you how this all began?

It was with a terror attack on 14th Feb, 2019. India decided to reprimand her
west neighbour for harboring, and also for being hand in gloves, with these
non-state actors.

I don’t see how Israel or US gets involved in all this.

As far as being a proxy to anyone, it’s the right wing Hindu nationalists who
form the core team of resisting being party to any foreign powers vested
interests. No way they will let this happen in the future.

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samx18
To be clear - they shot down one F-16 with their aging MIG 21. Pakistan has a
habit of denying everything. They denied Bin Laden's presence, but guess
what...

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rtdp
In print, this article is titled - "India’s Military, Ailing and Poor, Nears
Its Brink.".

While above is the title to make it a clickbait in the online edition.

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amriksohata
Loses dogfight? India presented evidence of shot down f16 parts to the USA as
Pakistan was given them for offensives against terrorists only and not other
nations. If anything, India went into Pakistani territory unnoticed, when
Pakistan tried it they couldn't even cross the border, intact wing commander
Abhinandan pushed them well back into their own territory which is why he
landed on their side.

~~~
amriksohata
[https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-
shares-f-16-evidence...](https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-
shares-f-16-evidence-with-us-to-highlight-misuse-says-brigade-and-battalion-
hqs-were-targeted-2053143.html)

------
tim333
I think there is something to be said for having a 'vintage military.' After
all it's prime purpose should be to defend the country against invasion and if
that job is done further funds should perhaps be spent on health education
etc. rather than the latest killing machines.

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LyndsySimon
My assumption was that India was probably using the MiG-21s as “bait”, while
their Su-30s were firing from BVR.

