
Transitioning Google Cloud leadership after three great years - clebio
https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/inside-google-cloud/transitioning-google-cloud-after-three-great-years
======
luka-birsa
I would really hate to see anything bad happen to GCP after the changes in
leadership.

Based on my own experience as the CTO: After being an Azure shop for a year
we've migrated ~50-100 VMs to GCP and I love the GCP products.

GCP is:

\- Simpler to use

\- More tailored to people with Linux environment

\- Leader in K8S

\- Has good support

\- So much cheaper (in our case we saved ~60%)

\- Has great UI and understandable primitives.

My only pet peeve is the fact that exporing your spend is practically
impossible unless you're a BQ guy that can work directly with report exports.

PS: We're building our future infra on K8S to allow us to migrate more easily
to a different could if something goes awry with GCP, I really hope there
won't be a need to migrate back to Azure and its arcane and high pricing,
strange UI, worse tooling...

~~~
true_tuna
Wait what? Good support? Not in my experience.

Leader in k8s? Not for production. I defy you to do a gcp gke deployment
without using beta or alpha features (that specifically say don’t use this for
production). Stackdriver error reporting springs to mind. And working with SSL
certs/let’s encrypt is a close second.

If you want a couple more peeves for your list how about documentation? I
regularly find documentation heavy on theory light on specifics.

GCP is my favorite thing that is almost good enough to use. I’m hoping the
change of leadership actually improves things. GCP could stand to re-focus on
a “customer first” philosophy.

~~~
metildaa
Lack of IPv6 support is what keeps us off GCP or AWS, HTTP fronting is great,
but when it comes to realtime interactive streams to mobile devices, the
ability to save significant latency and avoid the hot mess of CGNAT is
invaluble.

~~~
halbritt
Where do you go for first class IPv6 support?

I find it a bit ironic that the mobile and web side of the house are pushing
very heavily for IPv6 adoption and yet they expect their cloud customers not
to need it.

~~~
metildaa
We're on OVH for most things that aren't latency sensitive. For things where
every millisecond counts for quality, we either find a 2nd tier cloud provider
with decent peering to most of our end users in that area, or less common colo
or rent a server (some areas just don't have 2nd tier cloud providers).

------
ilovecaching
GCP is reflective of Google's internal architecture, just as Azure and AWS are
reflective of Microsoft and Amazon. This isn't surprising, they're leveraging
the same foundation they used to launch their flagship products in terms of
infrastructure, knowledge, and culture.

Google is very different internally from the enterprise loving Microsoft, and
they're more technically fluent than the customer focused Amazon. Googles edge
targeting and process scheduling are also very different.

These differences make GCP a very different product than it's competition.
Azure is essentially leveraging the ecosystem fracture that Microsoft already
holds, and the fact that Microsoft knows how to speak the slow drawl of
enterprise. GCP is situated to solve things the Google way, which isn't the
way most people run their infra.

~~~
halbritt
"...slow drawl of the enterprise."

Not sure that I've ever seen this articulated so brilliantly.

~~~
Zee2
This truly is an incredible bit of literary imagery. I've never heard it
before yet it is so very accurate.

------
kjw
A move that was necessary. Diane wasn't able to shift the existing Google
culture to one where the enterprise customer's needs came first. (Observable
as reflected in their pricing, sales, and support challenges.) Thomas now has
a similarly tough job navigating the organ rejection risk of transplanting
anything that looks like Oracle culture and practices.

~~~
fierro
Diane Green put GCP firmly on the map as a cloud provider to reckon with.

~~~
threeseed
Sure. But they are in 3rd place. And so very, very far behind AWS in the range
of products, quality of service, developer ecosystem, number of regions etc.
And while GCP is still focusing on the basics AWS is locking developers into
their platform with paradigms like serverless.

And once IBM launches their cloud I would actually put them ahead of GCP given
how useful their Compose suite is.

~~~
manigandham
IBM already has a cloud called Bluemix, and they bought/merged Softlayer into
it. It's not great.

Compose is just a managed database service which IBM also acquired. I don't
see how that alone would put them ahead of any cloud, especially when they're
already lacking in infrastructure and software.

~~~
threeseed
They also just acquired a tiny little company called Redhat who I am sure
knows a thing or two about infrastructure and software. And Compose is the
most useful database offering on any cloud IMHO.

~~~
manigandham
Redhat _is_ tiny compared to the clouds. Softlayer is aging and IBM does not
have billions in infrastructure buildout to compete. Redhat can provide
software but definitely not enough to put them ahead of GCP as you claim.

And Compose manages databases on AWS and GCP too, similar to Aiven and others,
so I don't see how that alone makes IBM special.

------
pier25
I prefer using GPC than AWS, by far.

But I will have to admit that AWS seems a lot more committed to their cloud
products than Google. New GCP products and features take forever to be
introduced or phased out of beta.

For example, cloud functions entered beta some 2 years ago and went out of
beta a year later. Even today it's only possible to use Node and Python. Only
recently the Node runtime was upgraded from old Node 6 to Node 8.

[https://cloud.google.com/functions/docs/writing/](https://cloud.google.com/functions/docs/writing/)

During that same time, a small company like Zeit has created a number of
complete cloud products for developers. Not only that, but Zeit Now v2 is
better in many aspects than Google Cloud Functions.

Why isn't google invested in GraphQL? They could have come up with something
like Prisma with all their talent and resources.

~~~
blaisio
I agree, I think for most people that's the main hesitation with Google Cloud.
Especially when there are outages, it feels as if Google has very few people
working on the product.

------
miracle2k
It is always worth pointing out, since few people are aware of this, that the
servers you rent from Google Cloud do not accept any network packets from US-
sanctioned countries; if you are ideologically inclined to the idea of an
internet with few borders, free software and so forth, then Google Cloud is
arbitrarily crippled infrastructure.

In any case, people should be aware of those limitations when choosing a
provider.

~~~
pier25
I was hit by this.

One of my projects needed to be used by some users in Cuba, and guess what?
GCP doesn't work from Cuba.

I had to adapt one of the features of the project to upload files to AWS S3
which works perfectly there.

~~~
dsl
The Cuban citizens that have access to the internet do so through Nauta, a
government ran network of wifi hotspots. This network is heavily filtered and
operates basically on a whitelist.

Even if GCP accepted packets from Cuba, your problems probably would have
persisted on the Cuban end too.

~~~
pier25
I'm not certain of that. Like I said, AWS S3 works fine.

------
notavalleyman
Can anyone help me think this through: it seems Google/Alphabet shouldn't just
be #3 cloud provider, but the cloud itself. It should have been difficult for
consumers to separate the concepts of cloud/Alphabet, as cloud is so integral
to the Alphabet business.

Instead the gold podium is occupied by a book re-seller. But the entire
Alphabet product line, from the amazing distributed Big Tables to the
stitching of 3rd party satellite polygons, is just a front-end cloud use case.

So why didn't it happen? Departing CEO Greene writes in the OP link that she
was only supposed to be running GCP for 2 years. Why on earth was an interim
CEO there in the first place

~~~
vl
Google missed cloud in the same way Microsoft missed internet. Google entire
product strategy is defense of Ads/Search revenues and napalming any emerging
threats. Through this perspective when cloud technologies started to emerge,
they didn't seem important. Then it became clear that cloud providers grow and
consolidate so fast, that Google is not going to be hardware buyer #1 anymore
and will lose access to best hardware discounts, threatening profitability of
Ads/Search itself!

This was pivotal moment: backwards Cloud PA nobody cared about (fun story:
Cloud PA was once forgotten at company-wide key result meeting, it was fun to
see how couple hundreds of people watching video-cast in the auditorium looked
at each other and like "meeting is over, they didn't mention or PA once, what
is going on!") suddenly became the priority, was merged with TI (Tech
Infrastructure) and everything became "Cloud! Cloud! Cloud!".

~~~
arebop
Google's search foundations were built on a private cloud, in contrast to the
prevailing architecture of that time. Google never denied the utility of
building abstractions over commoditized machines the way Microsoft denied the
heterogeneity and decentralized aspects of the Internet.

IMO, Google was just too focused on solving problems for human beings vs.
outside institutions; that's why they neglected to invest in making Borg into
a public platform.

~~~
romed
Borg can’t be a public product. Look at the way people complain how hard it is
to use EC2 then multiply by a large factor. No isolation, sudden death, zero
local I/O resources. It’s technically marvelous and dirt cheap but the masses
aren’t ready for it.

~~~
jpatokal
Which is why Kubernetes/GKE is the public version of Borg.

------
mavelikara
TK has a reputation for bad temper. I have heard senior execs at Oracle say
that they take great care to ensure that star engineers don't come into
contact with him directly, lest they lose those engineers. Would be
interesting to see how this plays out at Google.

~~~
fooker
Here is a Quora answer which supports your statement, admittedly snidely.

[https://www.quora.com/Have-you-worked-for-Thomas-Kurian-
at-O...](https://www.quora.com/Have-you-worked-for-Thomas-Kurian-at-Oracle-He-
is-the-new-CEO-of-Google-Cloud-What-is-he-like/answer/Cameron-Purdy)

------
nowarninglabel
There's a great episode of "Masters of Scale" with Diane Greene where she
talks about her time at VMWare and then about how she ended up taking the job
of leading Google Cloud. [https://mastersofscale.com/diane-greene-look-
sideways/](https://mastersofscale.com/diane-greene-look-sideways/)

------
Zhenya
Oracle culture is bad:
[https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=2500](https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=2500)
Oracle money making abilities good

~~~
andrewbinstock
Oracle and TK understand one thing that GCP does not: the importance of great
support. Oracle charges a ton for top-tier support, but if you have a problem
they can't solve remotely, they'll send a team of engineers to your site and
work night and day until it's fixed. In extreme cases, they'll duplicate your
hardware and software setup at their expense and run in parallel until they
can duplicate and solve the problem. That is serious enterprise commitment.

Google has no cloud counterpart to that level of service. If TK brings an
equivalent orientation that makes customers believe that GCP will do whatever
is necessary to resolve a problem, he'll have contributed significantly to its
success, IMHO.

~~~
kbenson
> In extreme cases, they'll duplicate your hardware and software setup at
> their expense and run in parallel until they can duplicate and solve the
> problem.

I knew there must have been a good reason they overcharged everyone for
everything...

In all seriousness, I imagine this is the type of thing you can do when you
have (or traditionally _had_ ) close to a captive market for specific things
(government contracts) that allows for massive profits. It's easy to throw a
few tens of thousands of dollars at black swan support events so you can point
to those as examples of what you're paying for when people point out that
you've been repeatedly found to violate contracts and fraudulently
misrepresent yourself.[1]

1: [https://www.mercurynews.com/2010/07/30/whistleblower-
details...](https://www.mercurynews.com/2010/07/30/whistleblower-details-
alleged-oracle-contract-violations/)

------
pbiggar
Notwithstanding that they are 3rd in terms of revenue, GCP has gotten to a
great place in the last few years. The products are fantastic. Great docs,
super consistent APIs and products, great pricing. Really a joy to use. The
bet on GKE really paid off too.

During her tenure it moved from something I wouldn't even consider using, to
first choice for my new startup.

~~~
outime
While I agree their offering is quite good, I understand why enterprises do
not want to invest on it. Some reasons that come to mind:

\- Much less people with proper platform knowledge (not even talking about
certified).

\- Not much trust on deprecation policies (AWS keeps running very old and
deprecated services virtually forever, there’s no guarantee GCloud would do
the same given Google history).

\- Not from personal experience but customer support is not top notch as with
other providers from what I have read and heard.

In my opinion those three reasons alone are big flags for many corporations,
which might prevent them from getting the big contracts.

Edit: formatting

~~~
snovv_crash
Re: deprecation, I deployed a personal project 7 years ago to AppEngine, and
it has run continuously since then, costing me a few cents each month above
what the free tier provides. Since then I've redeployed a few times with
little bugfixes or features, and all the infrastructure changes together have
required a few lines to be removed from config files, and that's it. It still
runs exactly as designed, 7 years later. By far one of the best effort/reward
ratios I've had on any platform. No OS upgrades, no package version conflicts,
no downtime (that I've noticed), just deploy and forget.

That said, I'm not sure I'd use it for anything that might scale heavily with
datastore writes. They get expensive _very_ quickly if you can't cache and
group the writes.

~~~
nonplus
That's because Google has not updated appengine classic in 7 years...

~~~
sayhello
As an engineer working on App Engine, I can assure you that's not true.

We've been changing a lot of infrastructure, adding features, fixing bugs, all
without users being affected.

I'm personally very excited about the Second Generation Runtimes, which have
been worked on in parallel, and run the runtimes unmodified.

~~~
BareNakedCoder
Hey sayhello, ... is it likely GAE-Std-Py3 will ever get ndb, memcache, etc
like we had with GAE-Std-Py27?

------
trhway
A VMWare founder couldn't force Google culture to be enterprise-y enough, now
an Oracle exec will try that ... If he fails, i guess the next guy will be a
4-star Marine general.

As far as i heard, the VMWare people Diane brought into the Google Cloud org
were screaming from the pain of being an adapter between the hard place of the
rest of the Google (i.e. the infrastructure, etc.) and the sledgehammer of
enterprise customers who, still mentally being unenlightened dwellers of the
Dark Ages, fail to understand the 30 seconds shutdown notice suddenly coming
from deep inside the Google infra guts as an "advanced maintenance notice".

Lets see what happens to the Oracle guys who are already coming upon the
Google Cloud like Viking drakkars upon Northumbria shores.

~~~
coredog64
> If [TK] fails, I guess the next guy will be a 4-star Marine general.

James Mattis will use his knife hands to convince enterprise customers of the
seriousness of Google’s support team.

------
whoisjuan
This is Google's problem. Total and complete lack of long-term view. Just look
at how many projects they shut down every year.

Do they really think they were going to become market leaders in three years?
Come on. The market for cloud infrastructure is in its infancy. The
opportunities are there. But you don't build a large business within a
potentially multi-trillion dollar industry by being impatient.

And hiring a former Oracle executive just shows how impatient they are... It a
complete change of the playbook and it likely means that they are scrapping a
huge chunk of Greene's original go to market strategy for Google Cloud.

~~~
manigandham
There is a difference between their consumer products (which have a terrible
reputation) and Google Cloud which does not have the same history and is well-
supported.

However there is that Maps pricing change that should be noted, and perhaps
counts the same as forced deprecation for many clients.

~~~
tybit
There may be a difference but they’ve tied their cloud branding so close to
the Google brand that the reputation of Google consumer bleeds over
completely, good and bad. I’d say they made a mistake in not having a clear
branding differentiation from the parent company like Azure and AWS do.

~~~
manigandham
Yes. They probably wanted to benefit from the "Google" brand name for
technology but unfortunately it carries too much consumer and adtech baggage.

------
ChuckMcM
I wish Diane well in her future endeavors and I certainly agree it would be
great to see more women in the C suite.

I would be curious to know if her passions are intertwined with her departure,
specifically if she felt that Google had structural issues with women in
leadership roles. She is essentially being fired as the lead of this
organization and being replaced with a fairly prototypical male lead. I am not
implying that Thomas isn't qualified, his LinkedIn profile suggests he have
very relevant experience, Diane also has the experience in her resume as well.
What will help Thomas succeed in this role?

The bottom line is I would like to see more women in leadership positions and
I am sad to see us lose one. I would like to understand (although I realize
that isn't possible) if her departure was preventable, and if so what would
have had to be different.

~~~
tw04
>Diane also has the experience in her resume as well.

Nothing in her resume actually suggests she had the experience for what Google
needed. VMware became popular in a similar way to Redhat, in that it solved a
technical issue nobody else was solving at the time. It didn't have explosive
growth until EMC took over and with it EMC management style/structure. She was
just along for the ride the second the company was sold to EMC.

>What will help Thomas succeed in this role?

He was in a position of power in what is one of the most successful sales
organizations in the history of tech. I don't like Oracle, in fact my post
history will show that I loathe them. But their salesforce has absolutely
dominated the tech industry for 2 decades+. Google needs someone that knows
how to sell to enterprise, they don't just need another nerd at the top. Based
on my experiences with Diane she was an extremely gifted technical talent and
an extremely poor saleswoman and leader.

~~~
threeseed
GCP doesn't need to figure out how to sell to enterprises.

They need to offer a better product with more features, support etc. Because
adoption within the enterprise isn't driven by the CEO or CTO. It's driven by
individual architects and developers.

~~~
ttmb
YMMV widely. It's not at all uncommon to have large software and
infrastructure deals signed by CTOs and Business Analyst type people based on
advertised product features and compliance certifications, without ever
speaking to architects, engineers and implementors about technology fit,
compatibility, etc.

------
alexnewman
I hate to be a negative nancy, but this is a huge blow to GCP. People really
underestimate how badass she is/was. I really worry that GCP will really hurt
Google Morale since they were so sure that they would win this market.

"Those the gods wish to destroy, they first make arrogant"

------
mathattack
Google’s Cloud weakspot is Sales and Support - the handholding to get clients
over the finish line. The new hire should be able to layer this on to Google’s
existing technical strength.

~~~
dajonker
In my experience Google has awesome sales people, but the ones I've spoken to
have an engineering background. Convincing other engineers that GCP is
technically superior isn't that hard, but (unfortunately) engineers aren't
usually the decision makers.

~~~
mathattack
Exactly

------
gigatexal
GCP is great but we couldn’t find a way to get logs to go anywhere but to
StackDriver and it being so expensive we had to jump ship because of it.
Basically try as we might all the pods that ran our containers had stderror
and stdout hijacked by StackDriver

~~~
manigandham
You mention pods so are you talking about GKE clusters? If so, Stackdriver
integration is just another service installed when you setup your cluster
(using fluentd as the agent). There's also an updated beta version of this
monitoring, but you can disable all of it easily in the GKE console with a few
clicks.

Container output isn't hijacked, it's all logged to files, and those files are
tailed by the logging agents. You can run multiple logging agents, for example
we use [https://logdna.com/](https://logdna.com/) (highly recommended) and it
works fine in addition to stackdriver logs.

~~~
gigatexal
Ok this might be embarrassing to admit but when we used GKE about 8 months ago
we tried to do this but we couldn’t get our own logging to get anything from
the pods. Maybe the tech lead was biased and wanted to go to AWS all along.
I’ll have to take another look at it because I liked the service. What I
didn’t like is that I on many occasions saught help from Google but got no
response. We didn’t pay for support but just an email a few days later from
support showing the methods to disable it and maybe a look into why our on
cluster logging tools weren’t ingesting anything would have been nice.

~~~
manigandham
What support did you contact if you weren't paying? Support isn't perfect but
I find it hard to believe you got no response at all. Staff and community is
also active on the gce-discussion [1] group and StackOverflow [2].

1\. [https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=EN#!forum/gce-
discussion](https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=EN#!forum/gce-discussion)

2\. [https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42380626/how-do-i-
disabl...](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42380626/how-do-i-disable-the-
stackdriver-logging-agent-in-a-cluster)

~~~
gigatexal
I forget who I emailed. I got a response that they’d look into it but a month
later nothing.

------
pwarner
They can carpool to work.

[https://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-kurian-twins-won-
the...](https://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-kurian-twins-won-the-
valley-2016-6)

------
urda
Based on how Google is quick to mothball products, I can't honestly trust the
GCP for production-grade services.

Unfortunately, there's not much the Cloud team at Google can do. Google as a
whole needs to demonstrate long-term support in a superior fashion before I
can trust their products for building my products.

Why is this getting downvoted? Provide some input on it, has Google suddenly
stopped killing projects that are in their infancy? Why should I entrust my
platform to that behavior? Anything instead of just mass downvoting.

HN you're better than this.

~~~
Jedi72
My trust of Google is so low, whenever I read a HN thread which is mostly
supportive of them I assume they're using paid shills. Even on HN.

~~~
urda
I don't care to "hunt" for shills anyway, but it's real frustrating to make a
comment against Google, get hit for it, and the best "response" is a wall of
text just making it "OK" for them to kill products off left and right early.
As if this company-wide behavior should just be discounted because "Google".

There's a reason they are 3rd in cloud tech.

------
yazr
Will this lead to price hikes (a-la Oracle death by a thousand cuts of
"improved plans", surcharges, etc)

Wondering what people think about this.

~~~
oculusthrift
my guess is that won’t happen until they have significant market share. right
now they are playing catch up and having higher prices wouldn’t help

------
kenhwang
The "Google is the new Oracle" phrase sure rings more true with this change.

~~~
magicalist
> _The "Google is the new Oracle" phrase_

 _bings "Google is the new Oracle"_

yeah, nobody says that.

~~~
scarmig
[https://www.google.com/search?q="Google+is+the+new+Oracle"](https://www.google.com/search?q="Google+is+the+new+Oracle")

To be fair, there was a single tweet in March that used the phrase, so it's
been said once in history.

------
notatoad
I assume new leadership means they'll be rebranding again?

------
perfmode
diane and mendel are a powerhouse pair.

------
rawrmaan
The new CEO is the former President of Product Development at Oracle...I wanna
puke. Oracle has some of the most hated products in the industry. I hope he's
able to adapt to Google's style and not the other way around.

~~~
matthewaveryusa
He's going to be used as the heavy-hitter salesman that goes around and says
"I see you're using Oracle, I know Oracle, trust me when I say GCP will meet
your needs" and he'll have tremendous credibility saying that.

~~~
travisjungroth
That's a reason to bring on an Account Executive, not leadership for the whole
department. I doubt he'll be on sales calls.

~~~
manigandham
The CEO is the most important salesperson. Meeting customers is 50% of the
job.

~~~
travisjungroth
For a small startup, yes. I could totally be wrong here, but I doubt that GCP
will operate on that model.

~~~
crazygringo
Not to be rude, but yes you are totally wrong here. Meeting with customers is
50% or more of the time commitment for a world-class enterprise-sales-company
CEO.

Other companies are huge contracts, and simply won't sign on without that
level of dedication. They demand it, and the CEO's give it.

------
Arcsech
Gonna be totally honest: From the headline and Google’s previous behavior, my
first thought was “Huh, I didn’t expect them to shut GCP down already...”

(To be clear, they are not shutting down GCP, this is just a leadership
transition)

~~~
CameronBanga
I think one of the big issues that Google is facing with GCP is exactly the
perception they have in the market with respect to product shutdowns.

I could never see myself making the decision to go with Google over Amazon or
Azure, simply because I don't feel confident that the product won't be
shutdown with minimal warning at any given time.

~~~
arbie
Have you considered a cloud abstraction that let's you change providers with
less effort?

~~~
spookthesunset
This is like those database abstractions that get made under the premise that
someday at some point you'll switch DB's. But yet, 10 years later you are
still chugging along on the same database you started with. You would have
been far better off to just completely "move in" with the DB you decided to
use in the first place and leverage all it has to offer.

The problem with these kinds of abstractions is in order to avoid "vendor lock
in" they are forced into a "lowest common denominator" deal where you don't
get to leverage any vendor-specific awesomeness. For example, in DB land you
would avoid certain kinds of database fields (Postgres's structured datatypes
like JSON, for example). Instead of leveraging the DB to do certain kinds of
JSON queries you now have to write the infrastructure your self "just in case
we switch DB's".

The irony is, in my experience to avoid the dreaded vendor lock in "problem",
teams and organizations wind up locking themselves into their own homebrew
nightmare that does nothing but recreate (often poorly) what they could have
gotten by allowing themselves to get locked in to a third party. It goes
without saying that in almost all cases, this homebrew nightmare has zero to
do with the actual value generating functions of the business. Storing and
querying on structured JSON in a database has nothing to do with the core
values of 99.999% of all organizations--these things _should_ be locked into
third parties.

My point is, most teams _should_ embrace all their cloud providers can offer.
Settling for the lowest common denominator shared between cloud providers
leaves money on the table and runs a very high risk of what is, in my
experience, a worse form of vendor lock in--getting locked into your own
stinking pile of rubble.

I could go on and on about the "vendor lock in" boogyman--it is one of the
biggest, most annoying anti-patterns I see. It creates huge political and
technical hurdles as the business grows. I believe it stems from a poor
understanding of actual business risks, not understanding the true lifetime
costs of inhouse engineering projects, resume-driven design, and a very
healthy dose of premature optimization. (also toss in some Stallmanesque
mistrust of proprietary systems for good measure)

~~~
tracker1
+1 to the above... There's _HUGE_ costs in trying to create abstraction...
Generally layers of crap code that is all repetitive and adds no value, making
it so much more costly to maintain even. You're often better off writing a
second version and transition scripts than trying to maintain an abstracted
code base or application platform.

Though a lot of the docker tooling, k8s and other options do make it quite a
bit easier as an option of you want to self-host. But that has other issues,
advantages and disadvantages.

------
moretosee
a new leader from oracle? google cloud will be doomed...

~~~
romed
How can it be worse than a leader from VMWare? Have you ever seen VMWare's
cloud product? It literally has little pictures of pretend computers that you
click the reset buttons of with your mouse.

~~~
jpatokal
Diane was the _founder_ of VMWare, back in the day when virtualization was as
shiny and new as containers are today.

~~~
romed
And VMWare is a fine product, but VMWare Cloud is kinda not.

------
ak007
interesting !

------
sheeshkebab
I wonder what does Oracle fusion middleware guy have to do with selling cloud
tech

~~~
chevman
A zillion high level contacts at all the enterprise clients they want to sell
to?

~~~
p0rkbelly
That didn't help Oracle's cloud very much...

~~~
luckylittle
I agree. He is an old dinosaur who has no idea about cloud. I don't know what
was Google thinking???

As mentioned above, this is a huge red flag for me.

Source: Ex-Oracle working under his leadership seeing his decisions first
hand.

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alexnewman
Am I the only one who has had much better experience with kops or just
straitup kubeadm then aks/eks/gke? Stock k8s in my opinion is not hard to
bootstrap.

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alexnewman
Hackernews, i'm sick of being downvoted for no apparent reason. What exactly
is going on? Why am I being downvoted here?

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manigandham
They are fake internet points and don't matter. Making comments about
downvotes usually means more downvotes.

While votes are usually reserved for content quality, HN also finds them
acceptable for disagreement in opinion, so most likely people disagree that
stock K8S is easier to setup than the managed offerings.

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alexnewman
Ah fair point . I agree it's fake points, but I can't help but feel as though
downvoting without any response is.... Disturbing.

