

Little Brother is watching: San Francisco PD relying on citizens with cameras - cpeterso
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevius/article/SFPD-relying-on-citizens-with-cameras-4005150.php

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kbuck
I don't really like the parallel the title here draws between "big brother"
and people filming with their own cameras. The difference between the city
having cameras everywhere and citizens filming is that the city would be
recording everything, where citizens with cameras will likely only furnish
video of crimes. You aren't being watched all the time, but if you decide to
do something like smash a bus window, you deserve to be turned in. It'd be the
same as the cameraman serving as a witness, except that they have concrete
evidence so they don't even need to appear in court.

When I composed this comment, the submission title was: "Little Brother is
watching: San Francisco PD relying on citizens with cameras" (which doesn't
match the current article title).

~~~
mvzink
What I thought of was Cory Doctorow's book Little Brother, which posits the
inverse of this situation (a "techno-geek rebellion") rather than draw a
parallel: "Big Brother is watching us, but who's watching back?" or something
like that.

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greggman
I've often wondered if I could record traffic violations and upload them
somewhere where the policen could act on them. I haven't done it because I'd
be worried about retribution and because I doubt the police would act.

Examples, cars going 65-70 in a 50mph zone. The the San Francisco Bay area
Between Oakland across the Bay Bridge all the way to Candlestick park is a
50-55mph zone but lots of cars drive 70 all the way. I don't know how hard it
would be to compute their speed relative to mine from the video.

Easier examples, cars turning right from a left lane. Cars tailgating. Cars
changing lanes without signaling. Cars changing lanes while crossing an
intersection. Cars cutting people off. Cars passing on the right on a 1 lane
street, essentially driving as though it's a two lane street.

I'm not trying to be a snitch. I'd just like the roads to be safer. People who
break traffic laws are effectively risking your life. That's not cool.

~~~
CamperBob2
_I'd just like the roads to be safer. People who break traffic laws are
effectively risking your life. That's not cool._

If you want the roads to be safer, lobby your public officials for the
implementation of 85th-percentile speed limits.

There is absolutely zero evidence that enforcement of artificially-low highway
speed limits makes anyone safer.

~~~
GuiA
He cites speeding as one of his examples, and I agree with you; but he
presents other examples that are very valid, and I think his point stands.

Last night, I was driving with my girlfriend in SF, and we made a left turn
onto the leftmost lane of a 3 lane street (19th Ave). Someone from the other
side made a right turn onto the same street, but moved from the rightmost lane
they were supposed to go in to the leftmost lane. (picture=1000 words:
<http://i.imgur.com/1cyok.jpg> . We were the red arrow, they were the
blue/gray arrow)

We came within centimeters of a collision for something really dumb because
this guy wasn't paying attention/was a poor driver/etc.

~~~
refurb
This probably needs to be confirmed, but I don't think that's illegal in
California.

After moving here 2 years ago, I had to study for the driver's license written
test and I remember being shocked at reading "when turning at an intersection,
if you are in the only turning lane, you may enter into any of the lanes
during your turn".

So I'm imagining that if you both had green lights, since you were turning
left, he had the right of way (not saying his actions weren't stupid by the
way).

~~~
aclimatt
No, that's illegal and he was in the wrong.

> 2\. Right turn. Begin and end the turn in the lane nearest the righthand
> curb. Do not swing wide into another lane of traffic.

<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/turns.htm>

~~~
refurb
I stand corrected!

Maybe I'm remembering the rules of left turns? As long as there was only one
left turning lane (and you had the left turn arrow), you could turn into any
of the new lanes (not just the left most lane).

Combine that with people who turn right into other-than-the-right-most-lane,
and you've got a recipe for disaster.

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stretchwithme
I think this is a good trend. The more criminals understand that they will be
caught, the sooner they will be off the street and/or learn to behave.

I see this trend going even further though. A lot of people have suspicions
about crime before it even takes place. A person standing in front of a car
and looking around to see who's watching, for example.

What if they could report suspicion and have that alert property owners and
police before a crime occurs?

Such suspicion should not be used to hassle people. That person waiting by the
car may be meeting the owner and looking for his approach. But knowing that
people have suspicions can allow property owners to turn on lights and do
other things to communicate that the chances of being caught are not low.

Cops could also use suspicion data to decide where cops should be when there
is no crime. Better to hang out on a block where suspicions are high than
where there is no crime.

Over time, I can see them discerning between suspicion that precedes actual
crime and false suspicion and get even better at predicting where they should
be.

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DanBC
> I see this trend going even further though. A lot of people have suspicions
> about crime before it even takes place. A person standing in front of a car
> and looking around to see who's watching, for example.

> What if they could report suspicion and have that alert property owners and
> police before a crime occurs?

Neighbourhood watch schemes are not new.

They do, rarely, have problems.

> Dispatcher: Are you following him?

> Zimmerman: Yeah.

> Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

> Zimmerman: Okay.

~~~
stretchwithme
Anytime someone starts carrying a gun around and acting like a cop without
being trained or uniformed as a cop, there's going to be problems.

~~~
naww
Anytime someone starts carrying a gun around and acting like a cop while being
trained and uniformed as a cop, there's going to be problems, if you film
them.

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grecy
Rihanna is nice enough to take a photo of herself smoking an illegal
substance, post it on her own Twitter feed, and no action is taken by the
police.

Double standard?

~~~
ojbyrne
The last 3 presidents have publicly admitted to that particular crime. So
obviously...

~~~
grecy
And how many thousands of Americans are incarcerated rate now due to that same
crime?

~~~
anigbrowl
Few, most are incarcerated for possessing large amounts. But in any case,
state and federal policy are two different issues.

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stretchwithme
And the PD has always relied on citizens with eyes. Cameras are just more
reliable.

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Apocryphon
The late Flip video camera would be perfect for this sort of activity.

~~~
Evbn
Kodak makes the new versions of Flip now.

~~~
whyenot
Kodak no longer makes consumer video cameras. Try Sanyo.

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naww
I don't see why they use civilians to look and screen videos. Hope they have a
watchmen for watchmen and informed officers who know about taping police on
work.

Isn't this bit off Hacker News 'thou?

