
Arduino TRE - x43b
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardTre
======
minthd
I'm not sure if arduino is a good platform to spend time on, see[1].

One the other hand, the mbed:

"With all the investments ARM is putting into the mbed and the mbed-os(and
it's huge amount of internet of things features) ,with features like automatic
selection of sleep modes via easy to use sleep api's[1] , the better though
out API(things like FastPWM, FastIO, SIMPLEDMA and others) , the community
being more professional so it probably means better code, and the better
license enabling easy use in production , and the large amount of ARM
microcontrollers availble for it, isn't this the better time investment for
the future ?" [2].

[1][http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=253582.0](http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=253582.0)

[2][http://www.eetimes.com/messages.asp?piddl_msgthreadid=47423&...](http://www.eetimes.com/messages.asp?piddl_msgthreadid=47423&piddl_msgpage=1#msgs)

~~~
Sanddancer
I've got one of the NXP mbed boards, and it's an interesting piece of
hardware, however, the current mbed toolchain is kind of ridiculous. In order
to use the more interesting features, you're pretty much required to use their
web-based IDE, and forego a lot of the nice features of, say, eclipse. Also, I
have issues with certain decisions they've made, like having floating point
only libraries for PWM, which means you have to waste a lot of clocks, and
code, just to make the lights work.

Then again, with AVRs, I'm using Atmel Studio a lot these days for similar
reasons instead of the Arduino environment. The abstraction layers don't quite
mesh with what I'm trying, which means writing I'm writing around the Arduino
a lot more than I'm writing for the Arduino. Perhaps it's just time for
getting back to basics with the lower level libraries.

~~~
minthd
With regards to PWM issues you've mentioned , have you looked at alternative
libraries ? a rough search brough me this[1](and there might be others), an it
claims to solve most of the floating point problem.

>> In order to use the more interesting features, you're pretty much required
to use their web-based IDE,

What features are those ?

[1][http://developer.mbed.org/users/jocis/code/HighPWM/docs/923b...](http://developer.mbed.org/users/jocis/code/HighPWM/docs/923b54e7c2c1/classHighPWM.html)

~~~
Sanddancer
I looked a bit at some of the alternative libraries, but was frustrated with
the environment due to the slowdowns in trying to use it during peak hours.
Perhaps with more digging I could find one that works well, but it would mean
having to create a project, import the library in, and then exporting the
bundle into Eclipse for processing.

The biggest interesting feature is how third party libraries are easily
integrated into software you're writing. It's trivial to publish and retrieve
the libraries other people have written, which is something I'd really enjoy
being able to use.

------
_paulc
The AM355x already has 2 x 32bit Programmable Realtime Units (PRU) [1] so the
AVR seems a bit redundant (other than compatibility with existing shields and
ease of programming)

[1]
[http://elinux.org/BeagleBone_PRU_Notes](http://elinux.org/BeagleBone_PRU_Notes)

~~~
fest
Compatiblity with existing libraries and example code for other Arduinos is
the key here. I find it surprising too, but there are people who do not really
want to know all the low-level details but get the result quickly :)

------
jbuzbee
Discussion of the ESP286 here on Hacker news seems limited. Looks like a great
alternative for low-cost use. It's a $5 microcontroller board with WIFI which
now can be programmed with the Arduino development environment:

[http://makezine.com/2015/04/01/esp8266-5-microcontroller-
wi-...](http://makezine.com/2015/04/01/esp8266-5-microcontroller-wi-fi-now-
arduino-compatible/)

------
esistgut
"Arduino TRE, the first Arduino board manufactured in the U.S." As italian I
feel a little bit sad about Arduino today being american hardware fully
assembled in America. I wonder if they still print Italy and the italian flag
on the PCB...

~~~
floatboth
[https://makezine.com/2015/03/19/massimo-banzi-fighting-
for-a...](https://makezine.com/2015/03/19/massimo-banzi-fighting-for-arduino/)

tl;dr "if people bought an Arduino board made in Italy in the last year
thinking they were supporting the project they should know that we didn’t
receive any money for it despite the fact that we designed, documented,
maintained and supported those products" – Massimo Banzi

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wolfgke
Please correct me, but doesn't the GPU of Texas Instrument's Sitara
AM3359AZCZ100 require a closed firmware blob - in other words the Arduino TRE
will be a partly closed hardware (not in Arduino's open hardware spirit)?

~~~
Narishma
The rule of thumb is if the GPU is not from Intel, then it requires a binary
blob.

~~~
wolfgke
Is it at least possible to write an own OS (by using the firmware blob) or is
the blob married to (GNU/)Linux?

~~~
Narishma
It looks like it has a PowerVR GPU, which would make it the later. If you want
a board where you can write your own OS and still make use of the GPU, the
Raspberry Pi is your best bet.

~~~
makomk
Note that I think this is only an issue if you want 3D acceleration - I
believe that unlike on the Pi, modesetting is open source and possibly even
documented, so you should be able to turn on the display output and set up a
framebuffer you can write to without touching any of the proprietary bits.

~~~
Narishma
The Pi works differently from other computers I've seen, in that the GPU is
responsible for booting the system, and so it always needs the binary blob to
start. Think of it as the equivalent of the BIOS on a PC, except it runs on
the GPU instead of the CPU, and it's stored on an SD card instead of ROM. But
as far as your own OS is concerned, how you communicate with it if fully
documented. So you can do modesetting, and you can do hardware acceleration
and whatnot. I believe the only thing you can't do on non-linux OSes is video
decoding, but I'm not exactly sure.

~~~
exDM69
> The Pi works differently from other computers I've seen, in that the GPU is
> responsible for booting the system, and soit always needs the binary blob to
> start.

This is common in the ARM world, where there isn't a standard like the "PC
standard" on x86 world. Many ARM SoC's have a "bootstrap" core, which is a low
power ARM core. All ARM computers boot differently.

------
avinassh
There are so many Arduinos. It was daunting for me when I was starting out.
Following guides helped me to get started:

\- [https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/arduino-comparison-
guid...](https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/arduino-comparison-guide)

\-
[https://www.sparkfun.com/arduino_guide](https://www.sparkfun.com/arduino_guide)

Do you know any more noob friendly comparison sites/articles?

~~~
falcolas
I'm afraid I don't. I think it ultimately comes down to what you want to do
with it.

Personally, I'd recommend the Uno: it is a great basic Arduino platform which
can handle most projects which utilize a micro controller. Once you've
prototyped your project with the Uno and identified if you need more IO pins,
or more speed, or a smaller unit, then you can look into replacing the Uno
with one of the more specialized versions, and use the Uno to prototype your
next project.

------
Animats
There's already the Arduino DUE, which has the Arduino form factor and pinout,
with a very lightly configured ARM processor. It's supported by the Arduino
toolchain, and you get more memory and a CPU with floating point hardware.
It's far too small a machine to run Linux, but it's the next step up when an
ARM CPU is just too wimpy.

How do the two CPUs of the TRE talk to each other? Shared memory? I2C? USB?

~~~
zecken
Probably UART, the same way the FTDI chip in new UNOs talks to the AVR. In any
case, the reason having an ARM cpu w/ an AVR is beneficial is because you get
the linux environment but real-time hardware GPIO access. This is far better
than the software scheduling that bogs down RPis and makes it very difficult
to do timing intensive tasks.

~~~
makomk
Except that the SoC they're using already has two PRU coprocessors designed
for realtime IO support, and they have the advantage of being able to DMA to
and from main memory rather than being limited to a slow serial link to the
main CPU.

~~~
jws
Arduino's appeal is that doing simple tasks is simple. The PRU is not easy. TI
introduced a C compiler for the PRU last year, but until then it has been an
assembly only affair. (I haven't tried the compiler, I just discovered it
while fact checking the first draft of this comment.)

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ftollenaar
So... Essentially an UDOO, but less powerful and (or so it seems from the
picture) a different pin layout, making it incompatible with existing
shields..?

~~~
ambrop7
Agree. It's time to leave AVR uC's behind. There are many ARM chips on the
market which are both faster and cheaper than AVR.

~~~
CamperBob2
Fast and cheap are not the only criteria. What ARM chips have the same
peripherals as an AVR?

~~~
danellis
About a billion Cortex-M based MCUs from Atmel, ST, TI, NXP, etc. They
typically have: GPIO with PWM, UART, SPI, I2C, I2S, Ethernet, USB (host,
device, OTG), CAN, RS-423, SDIO...

What peripherals do you think might be missing?

~~~
CamperBob2
Look at it from a different perspective. I agree that an argument centered on
peripheral availability is no longer as applicable as it was just a couple of
years ago.

\- No chip that needs an OS can truly replace an AVR.

\- No chip that takes more than two seconds to boot up can truly replace an
AVR.

\- No chip with a 2,000-page data sheet can truly replace an AVR.

\- No chip that requires binary blobs to do anything interesting can truly
replace an AVR.

\- No chip that's available only in a BGA or other leadless package can truly
replace an AVR.

\- No chip that requires a 1-gigabyte toolchain installation (or, Woz forbid,
a "cloud"-based toolchain) can truly replace an AVR.

In general, no chip that wasn't _explicitly_ designed to be easy to use by
nonexperts can truly replace an AVR. Even lack of 5-volt compatibility has
proven a handicap for some suitable candidates like the Cortex-M3 part used in
the Arduino Due.

Nobody in the hobbyist market cares if the chip costs $0.50 or $5.00. Their
time is worth more than that. An 8-bit AVR can run 32-bit C code all day long
without requiring the user to become a Linux sysadmin or wade through a
bewildering selection of thousands of RTOSes, none of which are perfect for
any one job. That is a _huge_ deal.

~~~
danellis
You asked what ARM could replace an AVR. I said there were lots of ARM
Cortex-M based microcontrollers that could. Your response makes no sense.

> No chip that needs an OS can truly replace an AVR

They don't need an OS.

> No chip that takes more than two seconds to boot up can truly replace an AVR

No boot up time. They start running your code right away.

> No chip with a 2,000-page data sheet can truly replace an AVR.

Maybe more like a few hundred. Just like an AVR datasheet.

> No chip that requires binary blobs to do anything interesting can truly
> replace an AVR.

They don't. They don't even have GPUs.

> No chip that's available only in a BGA or other leadless package can truly
> replace an AVR.

There available in hand-solderable TQFP packages. There are even a couple of
DIP ones (8-pin and 28-pin).

> No chip that requires a 1-gigabyte toolchain installation

I'm pretty sure GCC isn't anywhere near a gigabyte, but it's also the same
toolchain used with AVRs.

> (or, Woz forbid, a "cloud"-based toolchain) can truly replace an AVR.

While they exist, they're not in the slightest bit necessary.

> no chip that wasn't explicitly designed to be easy to use by nonexperts in a
> hardware project can truly replace an AVR.

AVRs were also not designed for non-experts. Try reading a datasheet sometime
and try to tell me that's written for non-experts.

> Even lack of 5-volt compatibility has proven a handicap

Lack of 5-volt "compatibility" is an interesting spin on what is essentially a
legacy. One could just as easily argue "lack of 3.3V compatibility".

Sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit. There's more to
microcontrollers than Arduino.

~~~
CamperBob2
_Sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit. There 's more to
microcontrollers than Arduino._

I was using AVRs long before the Arduino platform popularized them (does that
make me an MCU hipster?) Even ten years ago there were far better chips.
Somehow AVR not only outcompeted those chips, but came to utterly dominate its
market niche. Why do you suppose that is?

Your position is reminiscent of those who expressed incredulity at the success
of iOS when it didn't do anything that wasn't already being done at the time
it was introduced. There's something you Just Don't Get. If I were you, I'd
wonder what that might be.

~~~
danellis
> Why do you suppose that is?

Marketing and the Arduino IDE.

~~~
CamperBob2
(I edited my comment to point out that the AVR chips predate the Arduino
platform by several years, and that there were technically superior parts on
the market even then.)

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rdrey
Cool! Has anyone heard of the price yet?

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rasz_pl
so a BeagleBone Black with adruino on its head goes to the doctors office.
Doctor asks 'what seems to be the problem?'. Arduino replies "I've got
something stuck to my ass!".

but now at 1.5 times the price of individual components! BB is $55, minis are
$3. This thing will be what, ~$70? Arduino abomination glued to the AR9331 is
~$80 (Yun), while bare atheros chips are $5 in china, whole routers ~$15. I
dont see the point of this new one either. Even if they somehow got the best
deal ever out of TI it will not be economical compared to BBB.

------
mayoff
What is the advantage of this over a Raspberry Pi?

~~~
Fradow
There are several advantages:

\- both 5V and 3.3V logic, meaning you can use pretty much any part without
level shifters

\- analog inputs (which are really lacking on Raspberry Pi if you want to use
sensors)

\- 4 USB host ports (only the Pi 2 has as much)

\- the simplicity of Arduino for electronics, coupled with a Linux for other
tasks

On the other hand, I expect it to be more expensive, and probably less
powerfull than a Raspberry Pi. It is definitely aimed to big electronics
project that requires both a lot of GPIO and a full-fledged OS, for which you
would formerly use a board running Linux + an Arduino

~~~
aselzer
also: 7 hardware PWM outputs (the Pi has one)

~~~
iwwr
You can sort-of do analog input-output via the audio ports on the pi, right?

~~~
exDM69
PWM is useful because that can be used to drive servo motors and brushless DC
motor controllers and other gadgets. It can't be easily replaced with analog
output, e.g. from audio ports. OTOH, audio ports are a lot more useful if you
need actual analog output.

~~~
Sanddancer
PWM could be done with an op amp, a triangle wave generator, and a handful of
discrete components. It's how the front-end of a Class D amp works. Would
definitely be more of a pain in the butt than having pwm ports directly,
though.

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emranemran
Wasn't this board announced a while back?

~~~
kasbah
Yes, ages ago.

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pronoiac
Huh, there's an errant "Clock Speed: 16 MHz" there.

~~~
georgemcbay
It isn't errant, there are just two processors handling different tasks.

This is basically a BeagleBone Black with an integrated Arduino (for low-level
compatibility with the Arduino shield ecosystem) that the more full-featured
(but less real-time friendly) Linux-running part of the board can drive.

The Atmel ATmega32u4 (the Arduino bit) is 16MHz, the more full-featured
Linux/ARM part runs on a 1GHz Sitara AM3359AZCZ100 (ARM Cortex-A8) just like
the BeagleBone Black.

