
Student Loan Debt Clock - sndean
http://collegedebt.com/
======
Bitcoin_McPonzi
I graduated college (Hofstra University) debt-free. (B.S. (Math) and M.S.
(Computer Science).

I took the bus to campus, live at home, and worked while in school.

So part of me says "why should kids who wanted to live in a country-club
atmosphere far away from home on borrowed money for 4 years get a bailout?"

However, I also realize the crippling seriousness of the problem.

I think the immediate solution is: The Governments Should Get Out of the
Student Loan Business. Now. Allow private companies to give loans, but they're
like any other unsecured loan, and you can cover them in a bankruptcy.

Tuition will drop like a rock! And maybe people will realize that not everyone
has a "right" to go away to a country club for 4 years on borrowed (or someone
else's) money.

Only if the Government stops backing student loans would I be happy with any
sort of loan "forgiveness" program. And I think these people's
creditworthiness should forever be tarnished.

~~~
DaggerDagger
Do you think we asked the colleges to turn us into profit centers? College
costs have gone up because bureuacracy has bloated. By the times undergrads
figure it out it's too late. If you actually went to school to study and ended
up in insane amounts of debt (like I did) you wish you hadn't gone even though
you were happy to have learned what you did. It's a shitty double edged sword.

Not everyone can get scholarships and school isn't easy/cheap enough to make
paying for it an option by working through school. Not if you want a real job
after school.

Frankly it should be free. Why are you charging people to better themselves
and their surroundings. It's obscene that we charge people for healthcare and
schools.

The United States is a corporate neocon fantasy world. Low taxes for the rich,
student loans for all.

~~~
gowld
neoliberal, not neocon.

neocon is global war in support of US oligarchical economic interests.

neoliberal is global free markets in support of global oligarchical economic
interests

------
tenukitime
Really grateful I will be able to graduate debt free. Doing a degree like CS
where I can get a great paying internship really helps.

I think the biggest cause for numbers like this is that some of us see it as
problem while tons of people see this kind of debt as totally normal. I cringe
when I see friends who I know are graduating with large amounts of debt run
out and buy a brand new car within months of graduatingbecause they are
suddenly making 50-60k and feel like they've got it made.

Most of the time it'll all work out just fine, but I can't help bit think that
there's a better way.

~~~
slowmovintarget
I'm not sure about "just fine". For many (especially in the software
profession), the difference between doing "OK" and being well-off in later
years is that new car.

Paying off debt early at that point in one's career is more profitable than
investing, even.

~~~
yathern
> Paying off debt early at that point in one's career is more profitable than
> investing, even.

Not necessarily true. My student loans had an interest rate of around 4%. The
market is about double that. This means that if I invest everything, and pay
off my loans slowly, I eek out a few extra bucks.

I actually did that math and decided it was wiser to eliminate my debt. Total
net worth isn't really the goal, not worrying about money is the goal. And not
having to worry about monthly payments, and knowing I have no outstanding
debts is much nicer.

~~~
mathgladiator
The same thing is true with having a house. Sure, the math works out in favor
of holding the debt and investing in the market. However, this logic has never
sat well with me because it assumes that you can predict your situation for 30
years.

The conspiratorial part of mind suggests that finance is more invested in
having people in debt than without, and the math is there to beat people over
the head saying "you are not playing this game well because this math says you
will lose in the end"

~~~
stevekemp
Agreed. If you genuinely do put your extra-money aside, and invest it in
index-funds, etc, you will probably end up with a higher return than if you
pay off your mortgage early.

That said most people plan to do this, and never get round to it.

I knew I was making a "mistake" when I started putting all my spare money into
paying off my mortgage early, in the sense that I could have achieved more
money by investing. But it seemed obvious to me that owning my house would let
me ride out problems more easily in the future - my bills would suddenly come
down to "electricity, food, and little else".

As it happens my wife and I decided at reasonably short notice to change
countries. Having paid off my mortgage allowed me to rent out the place,
without having to worry about getting permission from the bank, or anything
similar. I just had to register as a landlord and switch to a more expensive
form of insurance.

After two years of being abroad selling the place made sense, to avoid complex
cross-country taxing issues. But by owning the place outright we had the
freedom to try renting for a while, and worry less about income.

~~~
slowmovintarget
A mortgage is what my SO calls "good debt". Reasonable interest on an
appreciating asset. Car notes, on the other hand, may or may not be "bad debt"
as the asset depreciates immediately and the interest might be high. Credit
card debt is most certainly "bad debt". If you can't pay the card off at the
end of the month, then you can't afford whatever it is you actually bought.

Rid yourself of "bad" or "marginally bad" debt immediately, manage the "good"
debt, then save (rainy day fund, 401K, IRA, speculation). You're doing well if
you get to the speculation part.

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chestervonwinch
I think the visual presentation would be better if a monospace font was used
for the debt "odometers", so that the different loan types align and so that
the student debt amount doesn't jiggle back and forth each time it's changed.

~~~
NikolaNovak
Interesting - shows up monospace and perfectly alligned on my screen (Chrome,
Win10)

~~~
wereHamster
I fail to see how, since the page CSS uses font-family: 'Varela Round', sans-
serif, and varela is not a monospace font.

~~~
hbosch
It may be using tabular numbers, a common feature in many non-monospace fonts.

[https://practicaltypography.com/alternate-
figures.html#tabul...](https://practicaltypography.com/alternate-
figures.html#tabular-and-proportional-figures)

------
iambateman
My wife and I have spent the first 1,000 days of our marriage paying off $120k
in student loans. Fortunately, we both hold good-paying jobs and live in one
of the cheapest areas of the country. As a result, we can pay off an average
of $3,200/month on the loan while still saving some for retirement and owning
a house.

Our rate at the beginning was 6.8%.

A couple of things...

\- the student loan interest tax write-off is limited to $2,500/year. The
first year of paying off loans, we paid $17,800 in interest. Ergo, I had to
pay income tax on the interest I paid to the government for the privilege of
an education. It's bizarre to me that we incentivize going to school and then
charge income tax on the interest paid. Wealthy folks get to write off all
their mortgage interest on their million-dollar mortgages while we pay. It's
ridiculous.

\- Loan companies provide _way_ too many attractive-looking ways to "reduce
your monthly payment" by extending your loan. It's called "income-based
repayment." They're creating the appearance of being helpful, while extending
the loan and causing interest payments to skyrocket. I get that these services
can be crucial to the financial health of some folks but the way they push
them makes me uncomfortable.

\- Student debt can be a wonderful, life-changing tool. There's no way my wife
could have a graduate degree without it. Now she's a fantastic therapist using
her considerable skills and abilities to make people's lives better. Do I wish
the education didn't cost us 6% of our careers to pay off? Yes I do. But I
wouldn't trade it for anything.

\- It does feel like we're headed toward a cliff...a cliff where parents are
paying off their own student debt while their children are racking up their
own.

~~~
iambateman
Btw, there's no way we could've paid off as quickly as we have without a
budgeting tool. We use "YNAB" (You need a Budget).

[https://ynab.com/referral/?ref=pnPV1oqAP-
ZfH0oI&utm_source=c...](https://ynab.com/referral/?ref=pnPV1oqAP-
ZfH0oI&utm_source=customer_referral) (disclosure: referral link. If that makes
you feel gross, [http://ynab.com](http://ynab.com))

The budget allows me to confidently spend thousands of dollars each month on
student loans, without wondering if I have enough to cover living expenses.
Plus, most budgeting tools now will auto-import your bank stuff, which is
splendid.

~~~
gowld
> There's no way we could've paid off as quickly as we have without a
> budgeting tool.

Yes, there is. It's how people did it before YNAB and the Internet, and it's
called "don't buy stuff you don't need".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door)

* Spend less than you earn

* Avoid buying status objects or leading a status lifestyle

* Take financial risk if it is worth the reward

------
oever
That's a tenth of all USA mortgages.

[https://www.federalreserve.gov/data/mortoutstand/current.htm](https://www.federalreserve.gov/data/mortoutstand/current.htm)

~~~
reader5000
And paying on a mortgage yields a house you can live in. Paying on a student
loan yields an ongoing exploitation of older generations on younger
generations.

~~~
DenisM
Retired people no longer produce anything but they still consume nearly as
much. The exploitation of the young by the old is the bedrock of civilization,
we only ever fight about best ways of doing it.

~~~
gowld
Children don't produce anything but consume nearly as much.

The exploitation of the old by the young is the bedrock of civilization. An
"old person" invented the computer you post to HN on.

------
dsacco
Why are credit cards and auto loans displayed as static, rounded numbers? When
is the last time those were updated?

------
lettergram
And nearly all of them are now being serviced by discover financial services
(DFS). Which is why I just keep dumping investment money into them. Literally,
its going to be either the government tells them to write it off, or a
constant 7% growth for the next decade plus.

------
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------
jean-
Other than the fact that credit card and auto loan numbers are not updating, I
like the concept. Not using tabular figures[1] here is really unforgivable,
though. Maybe I'm missing a font?

[1]:
[https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/num...](https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/proportional-
vs-tabular-figures)

~~~
eric_h
I have literally never heard the term 'tabular figures' to refer to a fixed
width font.

The font they're using is "Varela Round" which isn't fixed width to begin
with; so whether it's missing or not is largely irrelevant.

edit: another comment indicates that tabular numbers can be a feature of even
a non fixed width/monospace font. Dunno if Varela Round uses those.

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crdoconnor
Somebody should make a physical one of these and put it in Union Square.

~~~
wtvanhest
Seems like a good use of crowd funding. I'll commit $10.

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myth_buster
Nice domain, also shows up #2 on search results for _current student debt us_!

Calculated as a linear extrapolation with debt intercept of $883,000,000,000
on 01 June 2010 and a gradient of $2853.8/sec.

------
Fifer82
That isnt far off UK national debt??
[http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/](http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/)

------
sammy_herring
Ouch?!

------
mobilefriendly
The median student loan debt is just $13,000, and seventy-five percent of
borrowers owe less than $29,000. That's easily paid by most working
professionals over a decade or so.

The student loan "crisis" is fake news. The largest loans are for high income
professional degrees like law and medicine.

~~~
cmiles74
I disagree. The average student loan debt from a public college is around $35k
and that excludes private colleges, who are not required to report. Keep in
mind that a great many students (who are not all wealthy) attend private
colleges.

It certainly is not "fake news".

[http://www.ibtimes.com/student-debt-crisis-2016-new-
graduate...](http://www.ibtimes.com/student-debt-crisis-2016-new-graduates-
owe-record-breaking-average-37000-loans-2365195)

