

US Authorities Silence NinjaVideo Founder, Rush Her to Prison - nicki_easy
http://torrentfreak.com/us-authorities-silence-ninjavideo-founder-rush-her-to-prison-120113/

======
nextparadigms
"According to the authorities, the Facebook updates written by the NinjaVideo
founder pose a danger to the community."

That's so absurd. It's like the 1st Amendment doesn't even exist anymore, or
the authorities simply don't care it exists.

This is why it's so important to stop the US Government from banning "Twitter
propaganda speech" from Middle East, too. If they succeed with that, the next
action is doing the same in US.

~~~
Xlythe
Convicts sentenced lose a fraction of their rights, including the right to
free speech.

"Under Turner, prisoner communication may be monitored and regulated, and the
content of the communication (i.e., the legal advice) makes no difference in
the assessment of the legality of the regulation."

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaw_v._Murphy>

~~~
nicki_easy
Is that germane? "[A] decision of the United States Supreme Court rejecting
the First Amendment right of prisoners to provide legal assistance to other
prisoners."

She was sentenced but not yet a prisoner, etc.

~~~
brudgers
And still had her free speech rights. Now she doesn't.

There was nothing illegal about incarcerating her sooner rather than later
(this is not commentary on the justness or lack thereof of her sentence).

If one says "fuck you" to the judge, instead of "thank you," one is more
likely to hear "well, fuck you," back.

~~~
nicki_easy
But she didn't say "fuck you" to the judge. She recognized that the judge had
been lenient and was thankful:

"I know it is ridiculous that I'm going away at all... I know, and I know that
there is a huge inclination to hate on the judge for giving me such a
sentence, but know this, probably any other judge on that bench would have
given me what the government asked for... because they are the motherfuckin'
government, and could do whatever they want. He gave me less than half of what
the government wanted and though it is harsh... we are file sharers ffs... I
can do 22 months on my motherfuckin head. In fact for the first time in years,
I can probably not dread the first of the month coming around. I'll drop a
couple of pounds, pick up another degree or something, and make 17 cents an
hour making license plates. //care. Fuck a landlord."
[http://www.ninjavideoforum.net/showthread.php?20347-My-
quot-...](http://www.ninjavideoforum.net/showthread.php?20347-My-quot-I-AM-
GOING-TO-PRISON-quot-Post....-lolzors)

What, you want she should have no personality? That's how she got so loved
(and hated) in the first place. That website got 6 million eyeballs a month.

I posted her actual letter to the judge here:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3464862>

------
droithomme
The sooner she starts her term the sooner she gets out, so this is good for
her.

The obvious problem here is sending copyright violators to federal prison for
long terms, costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars. Killers and
drug dealers often get shorter sentences, and bankers that steal billions
don't go to prison at all.

To say this is justice is a stretch.

Running a video site that hosts unlicensed content uploaded by users is what
youtube did for years. Where are the prison terms for their founders?

~~~
lachyg
What punishment, if any, do you believe is fair for her?

~~~
droithomme
Depends on what she actually did. Isn't copyright violation a civil and not
criminal matter? How is what she did different from youtube? You know, even
today there are hundreds of thousands of hours of unlicensed movie and show
content on youtube. Why aren't they being investigated.

Really the only difference I see is she is black and doesn't have friends in
high places. If she sold the site to Google she'd be on the cover of Forbes
rather than in jail.

~~~
lachyg
What she was doing was definitely not what YouTube does / did! YouTube is a
video sharing website, where the intent is to share video in which you own the
copyright to, obviously with such a large community you will have people that
will break the rules.

NinjaVideo is a site that's #1 purpose is to upload copyrighted tv shows and
movies, hours after their airing. Its defined purpose is piracy.

Clear difference from YouTube here.

As to your "Why aren't they being investigated." comment -- they are, YouTube
is quite proactive in automatic removals, DMCA's, detection of copyrighted
music, etc.

~~~
droithomme
They sure look the same to me. When I type in a name of a movie to see if
there is a DVD on amazon yet, often Google, YouTube's owner, offers to show me
the version someone has uploaded to their servers. Then, Google/YouTube makes
revenue from showing me ads if I or anyone chooses to go to that page.

It's absurd to claim YouTube is not about unlicensed content. The vast
majority of their streamed content was unlicensed for the first few years they
were up. To deny this is to deny history. It took them a long time to catch
hold for video blogging, a lot of which had to wait on people having cameras
included with their laptops before it took off. But even now, the unlicensed
content is as strong as ever, they just have more licensed content on top of
it.

~~~
szopa
What you are saying is incorrect.

YouTube has deals with major content producers (music labels, movie studios,
etc.) which work in the following way: whenever we discover a video that
infringes their copyright, they can choose to either block it, monetize it or
track it. What blocking means is quite obvious; monetizing means that we put
ads in front of the video and share the revenue; tracking means no ads are
shown, but the owner can access analytics about the video (how often it is
uploaded, how many people watch it, where from, and so on). You can read more
about it here: [1].

As you may imagine, this system changes the incentives for copyright owners.
When they decide to block some video, all they achieve is making some YouTube
uploader unhappy. If they decide to monetize, on the other hand, they start
_making money_ from the upload, and the clip becomes, effectively, a marketing
tool for their product. If you, say, watch clips from a TV series on YouTube,
that may be a signal that you like the series and will eventually watch it on
TV or iTunes. What is more, uploaders try to select clips they find
interesting and think other people would like to watch – so this in some way
turns YouTube into crowdsourced advertising.

(Disclaimer: I work as a programmer at Google and I work on YouTube.)

[1] <http://www.youtube.com/t/contentid>

~~~
OstiaAntica
Google purchased YouTube and THEN entered into those content deals. Before
that, it was very touch and go for YouTube-- they couldn't afford their
bandwidth, let alone licensing deals, and many commenters said that Google was
stupid to take on YouTube's copyright liability.

~~~
droithomme
Yes, thank you, exactly. There were tons of articles at the time about
YouTube's blatant disregard for the law and their wanton illegal activity, and
the obviously weren't troubled by it. They managed to get a huge amount of
investment and then had their lawyers make deals and settlements with content
owners. This is all a matter of public record and has been well covered in the
media. The gentleman claiming to work for Google is certainly aware of the
history so his misrepresenting it now certainly looks like a bad faith attempt
to whitewash their past behavior. This is not an aberration for Google either,
their Google Books scanning was in egregious violation of copyright and they
certainly knew it and the so-called Google Books settlement was nothing more
than a giant corporation making a play to steal billions of dollars worth of
intellectual property they had no right to. Monetizing of IP they don't own is
most of Google's business model. Google employees who make their living off
Google's activities who are critical of this lady's web service are certainly
being hypocritical and outrageous.

edit: Downvote all you want, it doesn't change history or facts, much as you
may want it to.

~~~
res0nat0r
Note the difference between YOUtube and this website. YouTube wasn't
explicitly designed from the ground up to be based off of copyright infringing
works. This site on the other hand was. That is the big difference.

------
nicki_easy
Here is Hana's personal response to the judge:

"Your Honor,

Firstly, please let me apologize for my use of foul language in the documents
that you will see before you. The idea of you reading my statements and seeing
them as they are phrased makes me wince quite uncomfortably. I am an
incredibly articulate person your honor, but the nature of the internet is one
of bluster, and bravado, and scathing comebacks. So do forgive the boorish
language as it is the nature of the beast, or at least, the nature of this
beast at this very moment.

Sir, I am not belittling my sentence as the prosecution claims. I have no
desire at all to go to prison and the sheer thought of it makes my stomach
turn. To say that I can do the sentence on my head is to employ the defense
mechanism I have always employed when facing something of such magnitude.
Sarcasm, humor, and a face of strength. Of course I'm worried, of course I'm
anxious, but I cannot show that judge. It is reflex for me to deflect the
serious with a wry tone or a joke about "shanks". But it should be incredibly
clear that I am non-violent and that those statements are exactly what they
were intended to be, jokes. In fact, I say as much just a few posts down. I'm
trying to be brave for myself and for those around me. Also, I'm trying to
establish as much as I can before I go in so that there is hope of actually
being able to free myself of this restitution upon release. I do not want to
be destitute for life. I do not want my restitution to haunt me. I want to
establish myself and find work. Good work. And that is not easy for a felon.

I do very much regret what this situation has done to my family and my friends
and my life, but your honor, as you know... to deny my love for my
accomplishment is to deny countless marriages off my website, children named
after me, a community so incredibly strong and resilient that I am in
hysterics right now thinking about it. And I have never, ever tried to feign
sugar coated lies about anything else. Please do not take them away from me in
these next few weeks your honor. Those strangers around the world, as well as
my parents, lifted me up when I was fetal on my apt floor post raid. There is
no threat of recidivism... I can never put myself or those I love through this
again. In fact, I listened very closely to what you said at my sentencing
about advocacy and the more proper ways of conducting civil disobedience, and
that is what we're doing now. I understand I am not a typical defendant your
honor, and my "lack of remorse" riles the prosecution, but I would hope that
my continued stance about what it is I believe would be considered
commendable, even if it is a bit naive and hurting me in this process.

I have no idea if my words here are hurting me or helping me sir. That has
always been a problem with me. I am a bit too fast and loose with my mouth,
but I am honest sir. I am. I worked a secretarial position up until 6 months
before the raid sir. I paid off a student loan with my money. I had intended
to pursue a Masters. I wanted to see the world. These were real desires judge,
not lofty ambitions. It was what was happening. This was about building an
independent media empire. And we actually came close your Honor. We really
did.

My intentions for NinjaVideo were altruistic. And I stand by that. Though I
worked on NinjaMain alongside the others, my passion has always been my Forum,
and that should be evidenced by the fact that I have close to 17,000 posts on
that board. I was lonely judge. I always am. And I found those I called kin
over these keyboards and wires and cables. My "Lost Tribe" sir. I beg your
honor to have mercy and not take them away from me now. I honestly do need
this time to prepare myself for my incarceration as well as close off loose
ends and suspend my life.

Thank you, your Honor, for reading my letter.

Sincerely,

Hana Beshara"

[https://www.facebook.com/notes/ninjavideo/hanas-response-
to-...](https://www.facebook.com/notes/ninjavideo/hanas-response-to-the-govt-
motion/10150498144208515)

------
noonespecial
The interesting thing about Ninja Video is that it was _exactly_ like the
netfix-itunes-amazon of the future would do best to look like. The
categorization, notes, and search were all fantastic and a huge community of
people enthusiastic about the content organically grew around it. All it
needed was a few dollars a month subscription fee and it would have dominated
the market.

The lost opportunity has become a sardonic cliche.

~~~
cschwarm
You don't happen to have screenshots, do you? Google image search found
nothing.

~~~
Kique
<http://icefilms.info> is essentially the same thing, layout is basically the
same too.

~~~
Professa
Yea, the icefilms main page is pretty much how it looked and just go to
ninjavideoforum.net to get an idea of how the forum looked.

------
lachyg
My comment doesn't directly relate to the issue in the article (how she's
being put in jail early) but I'll go ahead anyway.

Does anyone honestly think piracy should go unpunished? People that upload
movies, music, games etc should be punished, as they are doing something
illegal and and the people downloading should also be punished as they are
getting the content without paying the creators.

I'm curious if anyone has any logical argument about why they should go
unpunished.

Edit: I hate to be the dude that posts the stupid downvote edit, but
seriously, I'm posing a question, I'm not stating what should or shouldn't
happen. Please post why or why not you disagree instead of just blindly
hitting the downvote. The downvote button is for unsavory comments, trolls,
etc

~~~
realo
Picture this for a moment:

It's your Birthday. Your friends invited you to the nicest restaurant in town.
Very nice venue, food is great. End of meal... time for dessert. Your friends
love you and, together, singe you the nicest rendition of 'Happy Birthday To
You' you ever heard. Life is good.

This was an illegal performance. Secret police comes in, puts your friends in
prison (they stole & performed the song) and also you and everyone in the
restaurant at that time go to prison as well because you got the song without
paying the creators.

Of course, according to the New extended SuperSOPA law, the restaurant is
closed down, and it's owner is sent to prison as well, because he should not
have allowed all this to happen in the first place.

Do you really want to live in that Orwellian world?

~~~
lachyg
It's taken me three hours to really think about your comment, and I can't
really think of a satisfying response. Your hyperbole aside, I think this is
apples and oranges. I don't think it's a comparable situation.

People playing Nirvana in a garage and singing Happy Birthday to You at
birthday parties is not the same thing as downloading material that you have
access to buy. It's accepted that we can partake in these luxuries. If we want
to profit off them though, we do have to pay a licensing fee.

~~~
chc
The distinction you're drawing seems arbitrary. You could buy a license to
"Happy Birthday To You", but instead you choose to perform it without a
license. How is appropriating without a proper license to perform a work
substiantially different from doing the same thing to watch a work?

------
lachyg
I've hijacked this thread enough, but I'd love to post this question
separately.

Libraries are an institutionalised form of piracy.

Am I wrong here? Thoughts? I've just had a philosophical discussion with my
Dad about piracy and this was one of the conclusions we seemed to make.

~~~
burgerbrain
No, that is absurd.

1) "Piracy" is actually copyright infringement.

2) The license to read a book accompanies the physical copy.

3) Libraries are not engaging in copyright infringement.

4) Thus libraries are not engaging in "piracy".

There is nothing "philosophical" about it, it's just plain old _common sense_.

~~~
res0nat0r
The license to listen to an mp3 accompanies the digital copy also. Just
because it is 'digital' and only takes a couple of button clicks to replicate
doesn't mean everyone should get a n mp3 copy of an album without paying for
it, correct?

------
keeran
First they came for the torrent site admins...

------
devs1010
Can anyone give clear info on what NinjaVideo was, I did some research and I
can't seem to tell for sure if they were actually hosting these videos or just
linking to them? It sounds like maybe they were linking to them on the
NinjaVideo site but also posting copyrighted content elsewhere and then
linking to it? I'm just trying to understand what they were doing to have it
get to this level of punishment and attention from the government. If they
really were just linking to copyrighted content and nothing else then it would
seem we are already living under SOPA

~~~
mooki
They were uploading movies to megavideo and streaming them through divx using
a plugin.

Difference between Ninjavideo and most other streaming sites is they didn't
even _try_ to hide behind safe harbor. Only people who could post links were
staff and a handful of trusted uploaders. They plastered banners all over the
front page advertising new movies (like "new dvd rip out today woot!"). Talked
constantly about how they were pirates.

Even Piratebay comes of as timid and diplomatic. It was just a matter of time
before something really bad was going to happen.

EDIT: They weren't just linking to videos, but admitting to uploading them.

~~~
devs1010
Thanks for the info, I really was in the dark about what they were doing and
it had me a little scared as I was initially under the impression that it was
a site where users were just posting links to content and I couldn't fathom
how that would lead to jail sentences for the founders.

------
jerfelix
It wasn't real clear to me what the URL was, so I'll post it:
<http://www.ninjavideo.net/>

It's not even listed on the Wikipedia page [42], and can't easily be found in
google anymore. The NinjaVideo.net page now has a huge image explaining that
the domain has been seized. I'd post the text here, but it'd probably be a
copyright violation (and it's embedded in the image).

[42] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NinjaVideo>

------
nicki_easy
RIP free speech.

~~~
tzs
Did you read the article, or are you just commenting based on the misleading
headline?

~~~
nicki_easy
I did, yes. Also this one: <http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites>

And this one: [http://torrentfreak.com/ninjavideo-founder-sentenced-
to-22-m...](http://torrentfreak.com/ninjavideo-founder-sentenced-to-22-months-
in-prison-120106/)

And this one:
[http://www.app.com/article/20120113/NJNEWS10/301130030/-Quee...](http://www.app.com/article/20120113/NJNEWS10/301130030/-Queen-
Phara-NJ-sentenced-online-piracy?odyssey=tab)

And here are the sentencing memo, the government's motion for reconsideration
of self-surrender, and the response to the government's motion for
reconsideration of self-surrender:
[http://www.scribd.com/doc/77698613/Beshara-gov-Sentencing-
Me...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/77698613/Beshara-gov-Sentencing-Memo)

[http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155255/Beshara-reply-to-Gov-s-
Mo...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155255/Beshara-reply-to-Gov-s-Motion-for-
Reconsideration-of-Self-surrender)

[http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155260/Beshara-motion-for-
Recons...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155260/Beshara-motion-for-
Reconsideration-of-Self-surrender)

~~~
tzs
Then why did you say "RIP free speech"? Convicts generally either lose most of
their rights, or have them severely restricted.

She is a convict. The only reason she was not in jail (where she would have
had no access to Facebook or Twitter or other social media) was because they
had a shortage of space so were letting her stay out until space opened up.

There is no free speech issue here.

~~~
Natsu
You're arguing that this is legal. They're arguing that this is wrong.

See also: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hume%27s_Law>

~~~
tzs
I took "RIP free speech" to imply that he thinks that this case marks some
sort of change in how free speech is handled, which it does not.

If he was instead trying to make a general argument that convicts should not
have their rights restricted while they have not completed their term, or if
he was arguing that prosecuting someone for massive willful copyright
infringement is a violation of their rights, then I misunderstood.

~~~
nicki_easy
She ;)

I think the whole thing is disgusting and wrong. And I think that she was
railroaded off because of the views she expressed post-sentencing--they were
trying to make an example of her and "send waves through this community"* and
she was standing up and taking it while disagreeing instead of bending over
and whimpering with remorse. It's cruel, disproportionate, unjust and,
frankly, mentally ill. This is not what our justice system is for at all,
either prosecuting her in the first place or silencing her by whisking her
away prematurely.

*"One of the reasons we targeted Ninja Video was because it had such a strong social element," says Kevin Suh, senior vice president of Internet content protection at the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA). "We wanted to send waves through this community." <http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites>

~~~
tzs
Have an up vote (Natsu too) because you are both getting grayed out, even
though your responses to mine are perfectly civil and reasonable.

I wish people would reserve down votes for comments that are expressed
offensively or are blatantly off topic.

~~~
Natsu
Thanks.

I also want to thank you for registering disagreement even when HN leans the
other way. A critical voice helps you see what parts of your arguments are
weak or which need to be rethought entirely.

------
rdl
Does anyone have her address? (Is she really going to serve 22 months in a
county jail? WTF. I thought jails were for <1y offenses and pretrial
detention, with prisons for longer sentences.)

Apparently her interim address is

Hana Beshara c/o Alexandria Detention Center 2001 Mill Road Alexandria,
Virginia 22314

And she'll be moved to a real prison later, but mail should be forwarded.

------
voidr
When copyright holders have this much power... you should question who's side
is the government on. But I guess the law is really about money, who has the
better lawyer, most connections and lobbyists wins, so much for freedom, human
rights and crap like that.

------
waltersilva
You're all getting insane on these copyright c*ap. Soon you will be killing
people for/against this anti-copyright cause.

As IP is not a human right, non-IP is also not a human right.

~~~
ajuc
Free speech is a human right, and people were already killed in the conflicts
about it.

BTW - if IP is not a human right, then it's reasonable that people are
unnverved by imposing it on them.

Look at it that way - "Do not eat pigs" is also not a human right, and eating
pigs is not a human right. It's neutral. Yet some religions demand that you
respect this law. All is OK.

But when this law is made universal, and people of other faiths go to jail
because of eating pigs it starts to be scary.

~~~
nicki_easy
Brad Burnham said something recently that encapsulated it perfectly for me:

"I believe that downloaders are making a moral calculation and coming to the
conclusion that the content industry immorally perpetuates an artificial
scarcity to maximize their profits at the expense of users and artists. They
understand that content is a non-rival good, that unlike an apple, they can
consume it without diminishing anyone else’s ability to consume the same
thing. They know that the content owner paid nothing to reproduce or
distribute the content on the Internet. They also know that the artists who
created the original content get a tiny fraction of the revenue. So they are
making a moral judgement that the content owners are pricing their product to
extract unjustifiable profits and they feel morally justified taking the
content they find out there on the web."
[http://bradburnham.tumblr.com/post/12739727902/i-believe-
in-...](http://bradburnham.tumblr.com/post/12739727902/i-believe-in-the-
internet-the-content-industry)

File sharing has just been recognized as a religion in Sweden too and all.

In any case, something is very, very wrong here. This should never be a
jailable offense, let alone one receiving such a disproportionate sentence
(Naval Academy Student Sentenced To 6 Months For Rape
[http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/09/30/naval-academy-
stude...](http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/09/30/naval-academy-student-
sentenced-to-6-months-for-rape/)). And then she's just whisked off to the
detention center for speaking her mind about it on the Internets.

I've taken to calling the states the United Police States of Homeland Tragedy.
I get really sad about how deeply disturbed things have become.

------
hendrix
How is this different from any other warez site that has been on the Internet
since the mid 90s? They [ninjavideo] were not even hosting the content, just
linking to megaupload/wherever, what about
filestube.com/library.nu/demonoid/usenet? Anonymous will LOVE to hear about
this.

