

PowerVR SGX code leaked - seba_dos1
https://libv.livejournal.com/26972.html

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MichaelGG
While the author is correct, the tone feels so _wrong_. It's terrible that
laws exist that make knowing certain information a liability to embark on
creative endeavors. Just a very real view on why IP laws are harmful (despite
potential upsides).

Also, what are the kind of super secrets in drivers? If the secrets are so
valuable, certainly competitors would have no trouble simply getting a spy to
work as an employee. Or just RE from the binaries.

It reminds me of the idiocy of Canon and Nikon in refusing to document their
raw formats.

~~~
rayiner
> It's terrible that laws exist that make knowing certain information a
> liability to embark on creative endeavors.

Why?

We don't find anything objectionable about the law extending property rights
to, say, land, which we had no hand in creating and will continue to exist
long after we're all dead, so why find an objection to Imagination having
property rights over something that is wholly their creation?

I would argue that to the extent you can morally justify any sort of property
rights, copyright and trade secret more more justifiable than nearly any other
kind.

Furthermore, I don't see what _creative_ endeavor is being harmed here. It
reduces the meaning of _creative_ to nothing if you apply it to reverse
engineering efforts, which are the opposite of creative--they are derivative.

~~~
icebraining
Private property is a system that's useful to reduce conflicts that arise from
two properties of land: rivalry and scarcity. Ideas and other creations need
to such system, since they can be shared infinitely and concurrently.

Also, the "wholly their creation" is often untrue, especially when it comes to
patents. It's often just a result of having the money and/or knowledge to
submit it. Multiple people can and have came up with the same patentable
concept independently.

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CamperBob2
_I doubt that IMG will now try to bullshit us with the inane patent excuse._

It's not inane. Their fear is a natural consequence of mixing ludicrous patent
systems with cutthroat industry politics.

Most GPU vendors don't have massive patent war chests of their own. They have
a lot to lose by exposing their implementations, because _of course_ they all
infringe on various patents held by other vendors. Any program longer than
hello.c is likely to infringe on various patents. When there's money at stake,
the incentives all point towards keeping the driver sources private.

~~~
mschuster91
> Most GPU vendors don't have massive patent war chests of their own.

The largest by marketshare, nVidia and ATI (by belonging to AMD) certainly
have a sh.tload of patents. Do correct me, but aren't IMG/PowerVR and nVidia
holding the majority of the mobile GPU market share anyways?

~~~
wtallis
NVidia is a minor player in the non-laptop mobile space. PowerVR and Qualcomm
have the most popular GPUs, followed by Vivante and ARM's Mali as the second
tier. NVidia's mobile GPUs are only used in their own SoCs, and the Tegra has
never been that successful.

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userbinator
I take the exact opposite stance, since the practice of secretly studying
"leaked" proprietary code is not new - one of the earliest examples I can
think of is the Lions' book[1]. In fact, knowing how the proprietary version
does it could be valuable in writing your own implementation, as then you can
be certain you're not coincidentally doing the same thing and use an approach
which could be better in some ways (more efficient, etc.)

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions%27_Commentary_on_UNIX_6th...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions%27_Commentary_on_UNIX_6th_Edition,_with_Source_Code)

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StringyBob
Given one reason gpu manufacturers use for keeping drivers closed is to avoid
patent cases/trolls, can prosecution lawyers use leaked IP as a basis for a
patent case? Would that then lead to a counter-suit for illegal ip access?

In particular I'm thinking of the current nvidia/Samsung/Qualcomm debacle
([http://www.anandtech.com/show/8715/samsung-nvidia-counter-
su...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/8715/samsung-nvidia-counter-suit))

~~~
DannyBee
"Given one reason gpu manufacturers use for keeping drivers closed is to avoid
patent cases/trolls,"

No, this is what they state. IT is of course, not in any way accurate. Having
access to source code does nothing for patent trolls, or anyone else. They
don't go scouring source code and then suing people. They go suing people and
then scouring source code.

Since they'd get source code access in discovery anyway, it doesn't matter
whether they publish or not.

It's really that they think they have magic secret sauce.

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1ris
I don't get what they author want to tell me. This not great for powervr
because now their chips will be cloned and competitors have access to trade
secrets.

Neither of that will get worse by some non commercial developers looking at
the code. Nor will their code become a copyright infringement unless they do
copy and paste. And with a VCS (that everybody with a task that big needs
anyway) it's not hard, if trivial, to show it's not. And ever better, they
don't need to show it's not, somebody else needs to show it is. Source to look
at is a great thing for everybody who tries to understand powervr. Not less
work, but more information.

Sticking the GPL to is of course bullshit.

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xmrsilentx
Everyone else is thinking it... So I'll just say it... It's about goddamn
time.

------
supercoder
"I am horrified about the lack of responsibility of a lot of people. These are
not some cat pictures, or some nude celebrities. This is code that forbids
people from writing graphics drivers."

I'm not sure if that line is mean to be sarcastic but if taking literally
definitely undermines the credibility of the writer !

~~~
drivingmenuts
He has a different set of concerns. That's all.

If we weren't able to narrow our focus, then we'd be all wound up about
everything that's supposed to be an outrage and we'd never get anything done.
How many outrages? How many people you got?

~~~
cbd1984
Besides, there are few better ways to feel morally superior than to find
someone whose outrages don't line up with your own.

