
New Weapon in Day Laborers’ Fight Against Wage Theft: A Smartphone App - rdl
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/nyregion/new-weapon-in-day-laborers-fight-against-wage-theft-a-smartphone-app.html
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danielvf
So we have an app that tracks on an hourly basis the following: people who
hire against the law, people who work against the law, people who don't
withhold income tax on wages, and people who don't report income to the IRS.
All in a beautifully supeanable electronic format.

~~~
cheese1756
Since the developers have been working on the app for three years, I'm sure
that they've built in safeguards. One simple fix that comes to mind is to
store all data locally, except for the database of abusive employers. If
people want to contact lawyers to recover lost wages, all of the information
in the app is kept private since attorney-client confidentiality kicks in.
With something like that, there is no additional risk to using the app.

P.S. This is not a criticism of you or your comment, danielvf (I think that
the point you brought up is valid). One thing that does bother me about Hacker
News, though, is that the top comment is almost always a rejection of the
innovation at hand. The hacker part of Hacker News should be about improving
imperfect systems, not instinctively criticizing and rejecting them. I feel
like HN would be a much more interesting site and much truer to its culture if
every critical comment had to include a potential fix for the criticism. If
someone can't come up with a potential fix to add, then they haven't done
enough research to justify making the comment in the first place.

~~~
GauntletWizard
The flaws (or potential flaws) in a given system are almost always more
interesting to discuss than the ways in which it has succeeded. Praises ring
soft, criticism is fun to debate.

~~~
cheese1756
I agree that it can be interesting and useful to discuss flaws, but potential
solutions are what make the discussion worthwhile. Saying "This will never
work for X, Y, and Z reasons" creates a much less interesting debate than
"This has flaw X, but I think it could be solved by this change. What do you
think?"

It frequently appears that people react negatively on HN purely based on
instinct, without doing any research. The response to Dropbox's launch is
particularly illuminating:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863)
(I think that every Dropbox user can point out half a dozen ways it is better
than FTP or a USB stick)

All of the criticism on the Dropbox post is addressable, but the discussion
would have been a lot more interesting if the original commenters pointed out
solutions themselves. That shifts the discussion from a feeling of "This will
never work" to "Cool idea! Here's how you can make it better." The latter, and
not the former, is important to the culture of HN.

------
rdl
This is amazing. Technology being used to directly empower otherwise-very-
powerless individuals, without adding regulation or inefficiency.

10 years ago, this would have been crazy, given the cost of devices. Now, it's
a great idea. In a few years, it will be obvious.

There have to be a lot more tech solutions out there to help with societal
problems.

~~~
tacon
This kind of idea crossed my mind a few years ago, but I thought smart phones
and data plans were still out of the price range of day laborers. I was
thinking along the lines of SMSing the license plate of any car driving up and
getting back a rating via SMS. I also wondered about the blow back from
"aiding illegals" in more conservative locales.

Someone should write the companion app to prevent wage theft from time clock
workers. My understanding is that that problem dwarfs the theft from day
laborers. The app would log GPS coordinates as a shadow time clock, and a back
end that can ingest a time sheet and validate that the recorded times are
correct.

~~~
learc83
When I worked retail back in college, after the store closed a manager would
have to unlock the door to let you out of the store. Letting employees out was
never a high priority, so you often had to wait a while.

Multiply that times 10-20 employees a night at ~1,000 stores and you've got a
good chunk of change.

~~~
moonshinefe
That sounds pretty illegal.

~~~
pc86
It's one of those things that sounds ridiculous when phrased one way but
totally legitimate when phrased another for the same objective facts.

Ridiculous but true: "I'm locked in at work after I clock out and need to wait
to be let out the front door."

Legitimate but true: "The front doors are locked after closing and the manager
is finishing a task before unlocking it for me to go home."

Presumably there are still fire exits in the building so it's not necessarily
a safety issue (or would be more of a safety issue if the front door was left
unlocked while the employees clean up).

~~~
gknoy
The problem stems not from being locked in the building, but in not being paid
(usually overtime) for that time where your actions are dictated by your
employer.

The employees likely wouldn't mind staying 3 hours after work while the
manager does Whatever if they were getting paid overtime.

------
Animats
This is great. More apps to fight wage theft are needed. Geofence your
workplace, and when you enter and leave, record that automatically. Compare
with pay stubs. Report to labor law enforcement.[1]

Wage theft laws are becoming tougher. Some states allow triple damages. Some
make it a crime. California has been sending employers to jail.[2][3]

[1] [http://www.wagetheftisacrime.com/](http://www.wagetheftisacrime.com/) [2]
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/DIRNews/2015/2015-133.pdf](https://www.dir.ca.gov/DIRNews/2015/2015-133.pdf)
[3]
[http://www.alcoda.org/newsroom/2015/feb/convictions_in_wage_...](http://www.alcoda.org/newsroom/2015/feb/convictions_in_wage_theft_prosecut)

~~~
specialist
_More apps to fight wage theft are needed._

What would disrupting Labor Ready look like? An app matching employers with
employees?

App processes payments, right? Maybe some sort of escrow.

As for deterring wage theft, there's got to be some good strategies. Maybe
both sides enter hours worked. If values match, the payment is processed. If
not, the disagreement is escalated somehow.

Each sides could rate the other (up or down). Leading to mutually assured
(ratings) destruction if either sides cheats/rats.

~~~
Animats
_" As for deterring wage theft, there's got to be some good strategies. Maybe
both sides enter hours worked. If values match, the payment is processed. If
not, the disagreement is escalated somehow."_

In a union shop, that's what happens. The worker files a grievance and it's
settled or arbitrated. This happens all the time; it's no big deal.

In Germany, there are workers councils to which such problems can be brought.

In the US, the worker gets fired for raising the issue, and can then sue for
damages, maybe getting paid years later.

------
moonshinefe
Sounds like a great way to document illegal immigrants and employers who hire
them. I'd be very concerned about this info falling into the wrong hands (or
if I were of a different political affiliation, I'd be very glad).

The article unfortunately has no info on what if any measures are taken in the
app to anonymize/potentially encrypt this info. I'd be highly skeptical,
especially as the US government has no problem twisting the arms of companies
to make them give up users' personal info.

Let's not forget one of the two presidential front runners is quite the
outspoken critic of immigration. This could have real consequences if it isn't
done right (otherwise I think it's a good idea).

------
te_chris
I've often wondered about a blockchain based union for shared-economy workers.
Some kind of verified, distributed way to restrict supply of labour and push
prices and costs up in the worker's favour.

------
PhasmaFelis
Looking forward to the hit pieces about how this is a tool for criminals,
layabouts, and Mexicans to slander and sabotage upstanding American employers.

