
Ask HN: What tech problems do your parents have? - neilsharma
Has anyone had luck educating their parents on how to use tech better? And good training tools designed for non-technology people? Trying to find an alternative to being &quot;IT support&quot;.
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dorfuss
I would simply say: there are too many changes in the interfaces.

And I agree with that - every new device and operating system changes things,
and most often those changes are not necessary. I am not talking about
functionalities, but UI.

I am not sure there is any value added in the UI changes between Win 95 and
Win10. I am still using the good old WinAmp and TotalCommander which still
have not changed by pixel in the last 10-15 years. Once you get used to
certain technology, even if it is uncomfortable at the beginning, should not
be re-designed and forcefully imposed on users.

~~~
dorfuss
on the meta level: Older people don't understand what is an operating system,
is it different from Office? Or between an Icon and a Program. It's truly
amazing that they actually can do something on the computer.

~~~
shakna
And yet, you also have the opposite: those who started with MS DOS (or Altos
if they were better off), and who sit there screaming at Windows 10 for trying
to tell them how they should do something, rather than letting the user make
the decision. (Buried options in Control Panel, can only use the Registry
Editor for other things)

My dad reaches for C whenever Windows hides another feature, because the
backwards compatibility of the Win32 API makes it easier than the PC
Settings/Control Panel divide, and features continually getting harder to
find.

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fern12
My dad is an overly-enthusiastic Waze user. He is nearly 70, and the last
thing he needs is a distraction. I have nagged him endlessly about how
dangerous it is. I would love to hear any tips or suggestions on what others
have said to their senior citizen parents on this topic.

------
neilsharma
My mom has had her own successful small fashion business for the past 25
years, and it frustrates me watching her do anything on the computer -- her
business doesn't even have a website. The ironic thing is that she spends all
day on it managing her thousands of photos, sending out sales emails, etc.
Here are some concepts I've repeatedly helped her with:

PC:

\- Navigating the file system is confusing, esp on a PC with a lot of default
folders that don't need to be touched

\- Drag + Drop relocates local files, but copies if you're uploading to the
web/external device. Same action but different results.

\- Setting up a new device with the essential software

\- Debugging printer and wifi problems.

Web:

\- Password recovery/management (she can't use skype anymore)

\- Figuring out google drive (finally migrated her business on this)

\- the concept of shared files vs attaching everything in emails

\- to her, the internet is youtube, gmail, and google search.

\- tabs are like browsers in browsers. How do you remember what page is opened
in each tab?

\- product names are non descriptive. Why aren't they called "Chrome Browser"
and "Firefox Browser"?

Smartphones:

\- discovering her mobile number (i taped a sticker on the back of her phone
with her #)

\- making text larger (if she needs glasses to read, she won't read)

\- managing push notifications and clearing voicemail (notification overload
--> ignores all messages)

\- She confuses the concepts of apps, icons, links, buttons, and thumbnails.

~~~
jnbiche
Ha, our mothers were separated at birth, I see.

But seriously, it does bug me that Chrome, Firefox, etc. don't label
themselves "Chrome Web Browser" and "Firefox Web Browser". A surprisingly high
number of people don't even understand _how_ they are browsing the web. The
generally find some random way to get online, like clicking a shortcut to some
random web page, and keep using this. They have no idea how to answer the
question "which browser are you using". A large number of people, perhaps a
majority of those 60+, have this issue.

Add to this the concept of a "search engine" and they become hopelessly
confused.

~~~
yabatopia
Or just Firefox Internet or Chrome Internet. The word browser is too confusing
or meaningless for many people.

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ruler88
I found that 'tech education' has rarely been successful with my parents and
some of their tech-less peers. What was interesting is that mobile technology
changed the game for them. I used to set up skype, screenshare, etc on their
latest computer but they would not even use them 'cause it is still too
complicated. These days, they can easily use the latest communication tools on
mobile apps. It is quite amazing how mobile app design has penetrated and
entirely new segment of the population.

~~~
neilsharma
That's interesting. What do you think it is about smartphones that made it
easier?

~~~
gt2
I would say minimizing the current context a person has to deal with. The most
common places I see non-technical users fail is in multitasking multiple
windows or browser tabs/windows. They get hidden, minimized, and we all know
how on OSX the menu bar can be controls the last focused application, not
necessarily the one that has the user's attention/is taking the majority of
the screen. Lastly, sharing information between these applications.

With mobile, only 1 app is active at a time, and sharing information between
apps is either seamless, or only requires a similar action on every app, the
share icon, which presents a list of apps that the current app suggests
sharing the data with.

~~~
neilsharma
I think you're on to something. Know of any ways to make a desktop experience
enforce a single context? Essentially build a smartphone-like interface,
except for desktops?

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atmosx
My dad had his IT revolution moment when he encountered the iPad. To me it was
just a device with limited capabilities, for him is the predeferred medium of
content consumption.

That said he still prefers sending his emails with his 12 year old Window XP
laptop running Thunderbird.

~~~
neilsharma
What about the ipad made it so special to my dad? Better resolution than
whatever monitor a 12-year-old computer could power? Portability? Easier to
use?

Seems like parent's seem to be responding better to mobile tech than
computers.

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billconan
guiding my parents remotely on how to use software is so difficult.

I have to be very specific, like I have to say click the button about 2
centimeters to the right board of the monitor.

I understand the design pattern of an ui. even I'm new to a software I know
where to find what I need. but to them, every new ui is completely new.

For example, they still can't tell when to double click on a button/icon, when
to single click.

I gave up on educating them, all I hope is a simpler way to provide remote
support.

there used to be a remote desktop app called crossloop, which shut down after
its company got purchased.

it's very easy to use, once run, it generates a code and just enter the code
on my side, I can take over their desktop.

the closest solution now is chrome remote desktop, but guiding my parents
through app store to install it is a long pain process and they can't remember
where to find the app next time.

I thought about recreating crossloop myself for people with the same need. But
I talked to my friends, they don't seem to share the same pain. And I thought
the market for this will shrink as the newer generations are more familiar
with computers.

~~~
neilsharma
For a moment, I thought we had the same parents. My mom doesn't know when to
single vs double click, and both my parents lack the ability to visually parse
through a screen's worth of buttons, links, and text quickly. Looking for a
specific thing to press is like playing "where's waldo."

Hmm, i was thinking about building a chrome extension that can highlight the
link/text-field you want to click on. You either can ask it what you want to
do (ie: add to cart, bookmark the page, comment, up vote, share, etc), and it
would highlight the action on whatever website you're on.

Sometimes I just want to build a chrome extension that standardizes and
simplifies the UI on every commonly used website, even if that means cutting
their functionalities, but that would be a silly thing to do.

I hear you about newer generations knowing how to use these things. But then I
think that my parent's generation will be around for another 30 years, esp
since lifespans are increasing. Sure, their demographic may literally be dying
off, but that's the richest 10-20% of the population that is crippled using
technology.

Crossloop seems interesting -- I'm seeing old links to it still hosted on cnet
and other software download sites.

What about smartphones? Do your parents struggle with them? How do you help
teach them?

~~~
billconan
Yes, my father just complained to me that his iphone is full of photos. he
doesn't know how to back up those photos.

------
Mz
When I worked at a Fortune 500 company, I made short tutorials with screen
shots that I would email people in my department when they had certain issues.

When I played IT support for a local not-for-profit, I did things like created
a desktop icon for the things most needed by the technically illiterate staff
member who had to fill out so much of their peperwork on the computer.

~~~
neilsharma
Was that the defacto way of communicating tech products to non-tech people
within the company? Do fortune 500 companies not have training on how to use
all the software they'd need to use, or is this just for in-house tech that
might not be well documented or designed?

A lot of my non-tech friends are given google docs that are essentially if-
else chains on how to query databases or work with custom tech.

~~~
Mz
I had a non tech job, but I have a Certificate in GIS. I was often improving
on some existing tutorial. A lot of our programs were in house tech.

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lsiebert
]How to switch the tv over to watch netflix is currently saved in a google
docs file for my mom, but really, there should totally be a macro based remote
that could handle delays for device power up and switching that would be
useful.

~~~
neilsharma
Haha I can relate. I have a post-it note on the TV on how to switch from
Chromecast to cable. Unfortunately, she doesn't know how to cast things in the
first place...

What about hooking up an old computer to the TV instead of using a smart TV?
That way, the interface can be familiar. I made the mistake once of getting
them a Roku and using the ipad as a remote. Waste of $50.

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eecks
Understanding wifi vs data

~~~
bbcbasic
Just don't set up a personal hotspot from the phone.

