
The Philosophy of Color Perception - mnem
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121843/philosophy-color-perception
======
orangepenguin
I think that this article drastically over-complicates color. Color can be
defined in two separate and distinct ways.

First, color is light in varying wavelengths and intensities.

Second, color is a perception in the mind of a creature with light receptors.

A tree falling in a forest without an observer is not black and white, because
the lack of an observer does not change the wavelengths of light absorbed by
the tree. The perception of color, however is dependent on the receiver. A
creature with dichromatic vision has a different perception of colors than a
trichomat or a tetrachromat.

This article makes color sound very confusing by not setting a clear scope at
the beginning. The resulting ambiguity is the source of "philosophical
discussion".

~~~
tjbrennan
The scope is the qualia of color and what it is to behold color in your mind.
With all due respect, you sound like Mary in the Mary's Room thought
experiment. [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument)

~~~
orangepenguin
That is a very interesting thought experiment. Thank you for introducing me to
it!

------
Crito
> _" The human perception system sees a checkerboard with a cylinder, while a
> basic SSR measurement shows squares A and B read the same. “Illusion”
> implies that our system is fooled, but as far as useful information goes,
> the checkerboard interpretation is probably better. Try as they might,
> mathematicians can’t make the computers see the checkerboard. Rather than a
> demonstration of how easily fooled we are, optical illusions like this one
> are examples of the brain’s mysterious and irreplicable abilities. It
> interprets its environment with a sophistication that exceeds our ability to
> measure and reconstruct physical phenomena."_

I am certainly no expert on this matter, but it seems intuitively obvious to
me that the reason they haven't had much luck is because they are trying to
solve a much harder problem than the brain actually solves.

The brain almost certainly is using input from other "functions", particularly
edge detection and large-scale pattern detection to determine that there is a
repeating grid there, not just raw color information and inferred scene
lighting. I bet a computer can detect those edges with relative ease, but
that's not how the researchers are trying to solve this. They probably know
that they could do it that way, but consider it cheating because that's not
what they wanted to study.

~~~
coldtea
> _I bet a computer can detect those edges with relative ease_

It's not so simple. What edges? The computers sees no edges there -- only
where they actually exist.

If it was made to "extend" the actually existing edges, where would it stop?

------
equil
"[...] but since the color spectrum fits on a single line [...]"

There's a lot I want to respond to that statement with (purple!), but I'll
just mention that photons have more than a single frequency parameter [1].
Contrary to popular belief, this is relevant for human color perception, as
the cone photoreceptor cells are sensitive enough to polarization that it can
be perceived under certain circumstances [2] (not to mention the impact it has
on light intensity in for example gemstones through fresnel effects.

I'll just leave this here:
[http://makeartbutton.com/dmp/lusion.png](http://makeartbutton.com/dmp/lusion.png)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes_parameters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes_parameters)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidinger%27s_brush](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidinger%27s_brush)

------
ableal
Missing in action: Goethe's Farbenlehre
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Colours](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Colours)
and Schopenhaeur's physiological approach
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Vision_and_Colors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Vision_and_Colors)

------
kahirsch
If a tree grows in the middle of a forest and there's no one around to see it,
does it make a color?

~~~
orangepenguin
As mentioned in my comment, yes and no.

It still absorbs certain wavelengths of light to varying degrees, so yes for
that definition of color.

It is not received by any light receptors and no creature holds a color
perception of the tree. So no, for the second definition of color.

~~~
coldtea
If it's a totally dark forest (no lightsource, no photons at all), does the
tree still make (or "have") a color?

------
6502nerdface
_Noto bene_ , auto-playing audio ads on mobile.

