
Missiles of North Korea - aburan28
https://missilethreat.csis.org/country/dprk/
======
willvarfar
For those interested, here's an article on the NK ballistic missile sub:
[http://www.hisutton.com/North%20Koreas%20next%20Ballistic%20...](http://www.hisutton.com/North%20Koreas%20next%20Ballistic%20Missile%20Sub.html)

And ballistic missile subs of the world:
[http://www.hisutton.com/Nuclear%20Missile%20Submarines.html](http://www.hisutton.com/Nuclear%20Missile%20Submarines.html)

~~~
jzwinck
I walked into an NK submarine from 20 years ago. I was not impressed. It had a
regular old VCR sitting on a regular shelf like in a motorhome. And
construction that would make a Victorian pipefitter blush. It ran aground
during routine operations which is not so surprising given the utter lack of
precision instruments evident. I would be surprised if in the past 20 years
they went from that to a usable nuclear missile platform.

You can see photos from someone else here:
[http://www.catracing.org/hendrb/out-and-about-in-korea-
tongi...](http://www.catracing.org/hendrb/out-and-about-in-korea-tongil-
unification-park-north-korean-submarine/)

~~~
oceanofsolaris
Your link explicitly mentions that the equipment found in this specific vessel
is probably not the original one:

 _Speaking of equipment, it was obvious the submarine was stripped of any
useful electronic equipment, such as navigation or communication equipment. In
its place were items taken from a dump._

I imagine that all the original equipment was removed and analyzed by a South
Korean Intelligence Service before the Sub became accessible to the public.

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gerardnll
What about the missiles of US, Russia or any other western country? I may be
afraid of them too

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mikekchar
They have you covered:
[https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/](https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/)

~~~
cm2187
Curiously this page makes safari on ipad crash...

~~~
samcheng
It's probably the 1.4 MB jpeg flag image for Pakistan. Those little
ripples/folds in the flag...

EDIT: Yeah, all of those flags are ridiculously high-resolution. Pretty rough
on the browser.

~~~
randyrand
There's no excuse for chrome to be a stuttery mess on my 2016 laptop though.
Panning around an already loaded static webpage is an incredibly easy task.

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karmacoda
What is NK's goal? They know perfectly well that to launch a nuke against
another country, especially the US, could result in NK being entirely
obliterated. ~30 mostly little cites:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_North_Korea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_North_Korea)
How far along has this strategy been considered?

~~~
wruza
They know if you're going to obliterate their country anyway, they have a
little present for you. And you know it too. That's how nuclear weapons work.

~~~
karmacoda
So you're saying it's only self defence? In that case what's the fuss?

~~~
redwood
Because it's self defense of the regime... The regime is the #1 human rights
abuser on earth with hundreds of thousands of people in brutal slavery

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WatchDog
It seems more likely to me that North Korea would deploy nukes via lower tech
means. Commercial shipping or aircraft from mainland China, maybe even
smuggling nukes into Mexico and across the border.

Their missile systems have a lot of scrutiny upon them and they seem
unreliable at best.

North Korea already moves a lot of people and trade via China, they could
probably co-ordinate Nuclear strikes on several coastal cities just by putting
them onto shipping containers.

~~~
devoply
You understand the nukes are for show right. That sort of land mass would be
completely decimated by whoever they decided to use those against. Like
utterly and totally destroyed. What US worries about it N. Korea giving it to
other countries against their interests, countries that they wish to keep
under their thumb like Iran.

~~~
WatchDog
Right they clearly couldn't win any conflict, but it doesn't stop them trying
to inflict as much damage as they can before going out.

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crdoconnor
>Due to the growing obsolescence of North Korea’s conventional military
capabilities, North Korea has pivoted towards a national security strategy
based on asymmetric capabilities and weapons of mass destruction

North Korea's nuclear weapons program stems from a reaction to the US
deploying cannons and missiles on the border and pointing them at them in
1958.

This freaked them out a little.

~~~
astebbin
What do you mean to imply? Do you refer to a specific incident in 1958? Or, do
you blame US military aggression for the North's current nuclear program?
Perhaps if North Korea hadn't invaded the South in 1948, there would be no
need for a militarized border and heavy US defensive presence.

Rather than a vanguard invasion force, I've read that the 28,500 US military
personnel in Korea today exist as a sort of political tripwire. There aren't
enough of them to hold the line, let alone successfully invade the North, but
their deaths in the event of a conflict would commit the US to the fight.

~~~
crdoconnor
Simply that the North Korean nuclear program was largely a reaction to
deployed US nukes on the 38th parallel.

I'm bemused that this is considered a controversial fact.

Edit : I meant to say _nuclear_ missiles and artillery were deployed in 1958
which is what NK reacted to, they had conventional weaponry deployed before
that.

~~~
astebbin
Ah, I understand now. Thanks for clarifying.

In this light, I'll note that Bush the elder removed US all nuclear arms from
the Korea peninsula in 1991 (although Pyongyang's certainly still in range of
American missiles and bombers):

[http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/not-a-good-idea-american-
nuke...](http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/not-a-good-idea-american-nukes-in-
south-korea/)

Overall, my impression is that North Korea fears a conventional ROK/US
invasion much more than a nuclear exchange scenario, and that this fear
(rather than of American nuclear artillery, missiles, etc) has been the
primary motivation behind their nuclear arms development.

I don't think a conventional US invasion is likely, hence my comment. I also
don't think the situation would be different if NK _didn 't_ have a nuclear
arms program, given their alliance (or subordinate relationship?) with China.

~~~
crdoconnor
>In this light, I'll note that Bush the elder removed US all nuclear arms from
the Korea peninsula in 1991

True, but:

* given the US's nuclear submarine, bomber and ICBM capability this was likely seen as a moot point. The threat was still there. Indeed, one of the reasons the US cited for removing its nukes was that they were no longer needed.

* They actually never fully confirmed this withdrawal until 1998.

>Overall, my impression is that North Korea fears a conventional ROK/US
invasion much more than a nuclear exchange scenario

I think so too - for now, but it probably didn't seem that way in 1958 when
they had nukes pointed at them.

>I also don't think the situation would be different if NK didn't have a
nuclear arms program

I do. They'd be much more vulnerable to invasion. Given the US's military
history in the last half century (Vietnam, Iraq, etc.), I think their fear of
that is somewhat justified.

Their alliance with China does provide some protection but relations have
soured over the last few decades and if I were them I wouldn't see it as a
relationship they could depend upon.

~~~
astebbin
To make my own position clear - if their alliance with China does crumble, and
if the nuclear danger can be mitigated, I would like to see regime change in
North Korea. I'm not one for military adventurism; however, I see the current
situation there as more similar to the Rwandan Genocide than the setup to the
2003 Iraq invasion.

A peaceful, East Germany-style transition would be preferable, but I also
think it's possible that an invasion to free the current generation of North
Koreans could do more good than letting them die under another Kim's boot.
Millions live there today in deprivation and fear, not to mention the hundreds
of thousands of North Koreans reportedly living (and dying, via torture and
brutal execution) in Nazi-style concentration camps. Needless to say, a
successful reunification of the Korean peninsula would benefit future
generations of North Koreans as well.

If you're curious, here are the books which formed my impression on the
subject:

"Without You, There Is No Us," [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JTC9QBO/ref=dp-
kindle-redirect?...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JTC9QBO/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)

"The Cleanest Race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why it Matters,"
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EWETZW/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EWETZW/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)

"Dear Leader: My Escape from North Korea,"
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IBYRQ18/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IBYRQ18/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)

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ainiriand
How many countries has North Korea invaded so far? I think that they are only
trying to cover themselves from foreign threats.

~~~
willvarfar
> The Korean War (25 June 1950 – 27 July 1953) began when North Korea invaded
> South Korea

First paragraph of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War)

~~~
ainiriand
I don't think that North Korea was a sovereign state at the moment, more like
a puppet to other countries. NK was 2 years old and it was conceived by URSS.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Do you have any evidence that China or the USSR pushed them into invading
South Korea, or are you just guessing randomly? Because my understanding is
that it was NK persuading other countries to support them in the war.

> By 1949, South Korean forces had reduced the active number of communist
> guerrillas in the South from 5,000 to 1,000. However, Kim Il-sung believed
> that the guerrillas had weakened the South Korean military and that a North
> Korean invasion would be welcomed by much of the South Korean population.
> Kim began seeking Stalin's support for an invasion in March 1949, travelling
> to Moscow to attempt to persuade him.[94]

> Initially, Stalin did not think the time was right for a war in Korea.[95]
> Chinese Communist forces were still fighting in China. American forces were
> still stationed in South Korea (they would complete their withdrawal in June
> 1949) and Stalin did not want the Soviet Union to become embroiled in a war
> with the United States.[95]

> By spring 1950, Stalin believed the strategic situation had changed. The
> Soviets had detonated their first nuclear bomb in September 1949; American
> soldiers had fully withdrawn from Korea; the Americans had not intervened to
> stop the communist victory in China, and Stalin calculated that the
> Americans would be even less willing to fight in Korea—which had seemingly
> much less strategic significance. The Soviets had also cracked the codes
> used by the US to communicate with the US embassy in Moscow, and reading
> these dispatches convinced Stalin that Korea did not have the importance to
> the US that would warrant a nuclear confrontation.[96] Stalin began a more
> aggressive strategy in Asia based on these developments, including promising
> economic and military aid to China through the Sino–Soviet Friendship,
> Alliance, and Mutual Assistance Treaty.[97]

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War)

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darkhorn
I remember that the USA was telling us that Iraq had missiles reaching West
Europe. This is same lie. Execration!

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forvelin
It will be interesting to see that who will 'liberate' North Korea and how.

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trhway
NK couldn't and can't be liberated because it has tens of thousands of
artillery pointing toward Seoul, a city of 10M+.

~~~
Avalaxy
That is always being repeated, but I wonder if it still holds up with modern
systems like the iron dome, and especially laser weapons that are being tested
right now. A combination of pre-emptive strikes on NK's artillery, combined
with anti-artillery radars and a laser weapons air defense network could
render NK powerless.

Edit: that assumes that SK would be the 'liberator', but chances that it would
be China are probably higher.

~~~
crdoconnor
Iron dome is ridiculously ineffective even against home made rockets, with a
success rate of about 5%:

[http://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows-iron-dome-not-
working7...](http://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows-iron-dome-not-working7318)

~~~
redwood
While I agree it's not going to be effective against serious firepower, you
may be looking at the percentage wrong. It uses computation to only target the
subset of rockets that are bound for populated areas (as far as I understand).
Thus the untargeted will are still "successes".

