
ThinkPad X1 Carbon 2018 review: The only laptop in a professional’s paradise - b5
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/03/thinkpad-x1-carbon-2018-review-the-only-laptop-in-a-professionals-paradise/
======
tbronchain
I've been lurking at the X1 carbon for years, but now I'm finally considering
getting one I can't decide between the T480s this year!

On one side, the light weight and light size of the X1 is really appealing, on
the other the larger ram, graphic chip and lower heat of the T480s makes it
look like a wiser choice...

At this price, it is a hard decision. I unfortunately can't get my hand on
both machines before buying one in the part of the world I am in, did anyone
had the chance to compare them both side by side? Is the difference of
size/weight noticeable in hand?

Another aspect is the display. The new 500nits HDR screen looks awesome, but
I've been thinking a __mate __, 300nits display would be better for
programming? I don 't think I have seen a mate screen on a laptop for years...
Is it really better for outdoor use? Would it make sense to privilege it, even
being 200nits lower?

~~~
willtim
The X1 Carbon has low power LPDDR RAM which means it can sleep for a lot
longer with minimal battery drain. This is a very useful feature for me, as my
laptop is almost permanently sleeping.

~~~
rasz
Why sleep when you have 2read 1write GB/s SSD in there? suspend is couple of
seconds.

------
anon1253
I /just/ got mine in the mail (i7, 16GB, WQHD non-touch, non-IR webcam, 1TB
SSD). My comparison is a 15" Macbook Pro Retina (2014). Some initial
impressions: Build quality is good, it feels solid yet light. Minor nitpick is
that the screen doesn't retain its position well if you hold it in your hand.
I'm not known to be gentle with my equipment, and it gets thrown in bags, used
in the freezing cold, etc; it's a consumer device with limited life span, I
know that going in. The trackpad is one of the best I've seen on a Windows
laptop, but still no match for the Macbook (although could be my muscle
memory). Also I love the aesthetics of the thing, it looks and feels
professional and doesn't have any of the frills "gaming" stuff usually has.
There was only one Intel sticker, which I managed to peel off without residue
(what's up with those stickers...). The white backlit keyboard is a nice
touch, which is overall amazing to type on. I still can't deal with Windows
though (it just feels so sloooow), but I'm reluctant to install Linux right
now because of a bug in the trackpad drivers (it becomes unresponsive) if you
have the NFC option (which I do). I'll wait a couple more months for that to
get sorted out. Right now I'm running Linux (Ubuntu 17.10) in VMWare
Workstation 14, but that's also very slow (noticeable input lag when typing or
dragging windows). But that's all software, I'm sure that will become better
over time. The bad though: the audio quality is awful, I mean a 2014 Macbook
Pro is bad ... but this is a whole new level. The case even vibrates/resonates
with the volume turned up a little bit, and the whole thing sounds like a tin
can. Also it gets REALLY hot, as in uncomfortable to use on my lap. The fan
curves probably could also use some tuning, it goes on and off often, which I
dislike over a continuous sound and would probably help the thermals too.
Although, I haven't done any benchmarks yet to check for throttling. I was
hoping it would replace my aging Macbook, but it'll probably end up in a
drawer until I squeeze the last bit of life out of a 2014 machine, which is in
my opinion still the best laptop ever build. The new Macbooks are not really
an option (even if I could justify the ridiculous costs) due to lack of USB
type A/B ports (which I need for astrophotography), and the annoying sound of
the keyboard.

------
mehrdadn
Not sure if the Carbon suffers from this, I've had awful Wi-Fi experience with
ThinkPads (edit: same Wi-Fi module as in the Carbon). 5GHz connections just
drop randomly and take a minute or two to be willing to reconnect. Pretty sure
it's not the AP's problem since I've never had this problem with my USB Wi-Fi
module connecting to the same network, only the built-in one. Anybody had a
better experience (or know how to get a better experience)? I'm forever in
shock at how they've let this happen without fixing it; it's extremely
frustrating.

EDIT 1: Judging from the quick upvotes I suspect I'm not alone... (but
actually, this was obvious just from my earlier Googling).

EDIT 2: Funny, I'm getting downvotes now :-) confused what the message is, but
whatever floats your boat!

~~~
lorenzhs
I have last year’s X1 Carbon and have had no issues with WiFi (using Debian
unstable). Certainly no connection drops. Maybe it’s a bad combination of AP
and WiFi module?

~~~
igravious
Question. Is it possible to buy a Lenovo and not fork out for a copy of
Windows if you're immediately going to install your preferred distro of Linux
onto it?

~~~
deepbreath
In UK, they all ship with Windows it looks like. The only laptops I found that
don't shove the cost of a license down your throat are the build-your-own
ones, like pcspecialist.co.uk / novatech.co.uk / scan.co.uk / ebuyer.com etc.
But you're not gonna get thin portable laptops by building your own.

It's perplexing how we've let it come to a state where you can't buy a laptop
device without Microsoft taking a cut for the license.

And I'm still not over the way we let them have their OS logo on _all_
keyboards, either.

~~~
igravious
What do you think of System76?

~~~
deepbreath
Haven't heard of it before, but they look decent. I think the price difference
with brand laptops becomes less impressive if you go for the higher specs and
_also_ want it shipped internationally (20% UK VAT).

The base weight for their portable 14.1" one is 1.6kg, but switching from i3
to i7, adding more RAM and choosing a bigger SSD would probably bring it
closer to 2kg (compared to ~1.2kg on the x1).

I think the x1 does things like soldering the RAM to the motherboard, which
makes upgrading hard, but also makes it really thin (1.5cm compared to 2.2cm
for the System76 one).

Since the number of possible configurations on a build your own is quite high,
I imagine it's more likely that you'll run into issues on getting everything
to work on Linux.

------
plouffy
I'm reticent to get a ThinkPad because of Lenovo and it's history of
malware/bloatware.

~~~
omgtehlion
Do anyone related to tech really use out-of-the box software?

I'm always installing a Linux distro of my choice or a clean fresh windows
image if i need it

~~~
bushin
> _out-of-the box_

the box has a false bottom

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Mode](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Mode)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine)

~~~
panarky
If you don't live in China then buy a Huawei.

You can assume it's compromised, but China won't share what they get with your
government.

------
speby
Putting out a new professional-grade (and thinking developer-style laptop) in
2018 without at least a 24GB or 32GB RAM option is a non-starter in my mind.
Apple is also notorious for this having had 16GB RAM be the maximum for
literally years now.

For a lot of engineering work, where you may need to deal with virtualization
and heavy duty tooling like IDEs (XCode, Visual Studio, etc), simulators (like
the iOS Simulators or Android emulator), dozens of browser tabs, multiple
browsers for testing and viewing, etc etc., 16GB of RAM just doesn't cut it
anymore.

~~~
kazen44
then you should look at a different, workstation line of a laptop. (W series,
dell 7XXX series etc).

~~~
pimeys
Or just the T-series: T480 (32GB) or T480s (24GB).

I'm writing this with a T25 that has the maximum of 32GB of RAM. An excellent
developer's laptop.

------
bitexploder
An alternative: Dell 7520 line. Runs Linux nicely out of the box.

* No camera or mic is an option (I took it)

* No HiDPI display is an option (I took it)

* 32 GB ram

* 1TB very fast class of ssd

* Legit quad core Xeon

* Discrete GPU (decent)

* Real keyboard

* Charger is approximately size of an actual red brick (blah)

* Laptop is bulky

* I love it, best Linux and Laptop I have ever owned. Let's just leave it tied with my 2015 MacBook.

~~~
lorenzhs
I run last year’s X1 Carbon and it worked flawlessly with Debian out of the
box. Battery life is excellent (3.5W isle with medium brightness) and the only
thing that doesn’t work with Linux is the fingerprint scanner. It’s a great
device that I would definitely recommend. ThinkPads generally do really well
with Linux. And the keyboards are even better than Dell’s ;)

~~~
igravious
When you `lsusb' what device id and description does it give for the
fingerprint reader?

~~~
lorenzhs
I don’t have the device at hand but I’m pretty sure it’s a Validity Sensor
138a:0097. There’s an effort to reverse engineer the Windows drivers for this
class of fingerprint sensors at
[https://github.com/nmikhailov/Validity90](https://github.com/nmikhailov/Validity90)
but honestly I don’t care much about fingerprint readers on a laptop.

~~~
lorenzhs
For the record, I checked and 138a:0097 is in fact the correct vendor/product
ID.

------
otalp
Thinkpads are great, I just wish they'd update the design to make it look less
2006ish. Also a bigger trackpad with responsiveness that can compete with the
macs. It's been so many years, I don't know why other manufacturers trackpads
haven't caught up with Apple's trackpads. Even the XPS one is Meh. I think the
surface book comes closest.

~~~
green7ea
I wish they made the trackpad smaller. They used to have (T420 and older) a
smaller trackpad and a wonderful 7 row keyboard but they've since switched to
a 6 row keyboard to have a bigger trackpad.

That means I'm stuck on the T420s for the foreseeable future.

~~~
setquk
I’ve got a T430. Had an X201 before that. It took a month to get used to it
but I’ll be honest and say that I’m happy with it now. I dismantled it and
wedged some paper under the trackpad though to stop it being pressed. That
helps.

------
davidzweig
I had a T440s for a while. It had a very thin LCD cover, I don't think it
would have liked being sat on, the screen would be crushed down onto the
trackpoint. Didn't feel confident with it, went back to a X230, and still keep
a rigid plate in my laptop sleeve on the screen side. Some of the older
thinkpads had very robust screen covers (at least they looked that way), the
T500 in particular, with some kind of honeycomb 'rollcage' in the screen.

This machine might also have a funny SSD connector, that makes it difficult to
upgrade. Maybe not.

Wish they would make a machine with a 3:2 screen.

------
quanto
I am typing on an older X1 Carbon, and it truly is a pleasure to work with.
The thinness of the chassis helps with ergonomics as you do not have to bend
your wrist to place your hands on the keyboard. With the quality keys that
ThinkPad is known for, I enjoy typing on this machine as much as I enjoy
typing on Cherry/Outemu mechanical keyboards.

------
common_
Any experience on how well these things run Linux?

~~~
anothergoogler
I bought a Carbon X1 in 2015 and it was so awful on Linux that I was grateful
to unload the thing for $500 after a couple years (cost $1500). Issues:

* Palm detection. Good luck with that. Constant clicking when typing basically made the machine unusable. I tried really hard to improve it, got deep into X11 config, tried all sorts of libinput (Wayland) setups, nothing worked. Eventually I had to set it up so that typing disabled the trackpad for a half second or so, even that wasn't foolproof. Permanently disabling the trackpad would've been an option if they didn't turn the pointer nub into an unusable little flat disc.

* Display: Awful! I exported a color profile in Windows and it still looked like crap. Low contrast and barely gets as bright at 100% brightness as a MBP at 50%. Colors looked like crap no matter what I did.

* External monitors: Nope. Tried with Unity, KDE, GNOME, Xfce, new distros, old distros, all had issues waking from sleep with an external monitor. So if you suspend with the lid shut, you had to force power off (hold power button), lose work... Oh yea, and I had to manually disable the laptop screen whenever I shut the lid while on an external monitor or else something coming from the display would be seen as trackpad input (haywire cursor).

It was an embarrassingly bad experience and I felt totally ripped off. For
comparison, a T43 years ago performed beautifully with pretty much every
distro once you got the Atheros wifi working.

So yea, I'm still on a Mac now like everybody else.

~~~
pimeys
* Palm detection: disable the trackpad, use the trackpoint like a boss.

* Display: did you have the WQHD IPS option? Did you calibrate it on Linux using DisplayCal and a calibrator, such as Datacolor Spyder? Mine (T25) is really nice even though it got some negative reviews. Doing a calibration really fixed lots of issues.

* External monitors: I'm using i3-gaps and xrandr setup, but can't really help because most of the time I don't need an external monitor with my laptop.

Linux is such a no-brainer for me as a development OS that there is no going
back to OSX or Windows. A tiling window manager, minimal installation of
software and the magic combo of Emacs + st + Firefox is a deal braker for me.

~~~
borplk
> Emacs + st + Firefox

What's "st"?

~~~
grzm
My money's on Simple Terminal:
[https://st.suckless.org](https://st.suckless.org)

------
zorkw4rg
I switched to a Razer Blade Stealth, its around 400€ cheaper with the same
specs except a QHD+ display (glossy, touch, 3200x1800). I'm wondering why
Thinkpad only offers their WQHD (highest available resolution, 2560x1440)
glossy? Also still no 4K/QHD+ display, still no 32GB RAM support. I don't
really see much of a advantage anymore, they only reason for me to stay with
thinkpad would've been the keyboard that is just fantastic in comparison with
_any_ other manufacturer.

/edit clarified resolution/ fixed grammar

~~~
lorenzhs
X1 Carbon uses LPDDR3 (as does the MacBook Pro), but the CPUs don’t support
more than 16GB of it, so this is kinda Intel’s fault. LPDDR3 uses very little
power in standby so both idle power usage and suspend time are improved.

For non-LP RAM (DDR3/DDR4), the power consumption impact of going from 16 to
32 GB is definitely not negligible. It’s an upgrade that makes sense only for
few people. Have you looked at the T480/T480s if you need the 32GB? If you
have CPU intensive workloads, they may be a better fit anyway.

~~~
Roritharr
My Toshiba Portege X-30D has 32GB and I get 6-8hours of actual work out of it
easily. Loving it although I regret not having waited for 8th Gen CPUs that
are available now.

~~~
lorenzhs
I get much higher battery life out of my X1 Carbon 2017 (with the 1080p
screen) and its 57Wh battery, to the point where I configured it not to charge
above 90% to improve battery longevity (tlp can set charging limits on Linux).
But without knowing your workload that’s a meaningless comparison, of course.

Idle power consumption at medium brightness is around 3.5W for me (connected
to WiFi with Chrome open but idle), maybe 5W when actively browsing. It’s
amazing.

~~~
Roritharr
I prefer being able to do more, have more VMs running than being able to be
off the grid for longer than 6 hours.

------
RaleyField
Might be against terms but it pisses me the fuck off that Superfish[0]
incident has been forgotten, by people that should know better. No, Ars
Technica, it's not professionals' paradise as long as it's being produced by
the same gangsters.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_inci...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_incident)

------
vermaden

      > Lenovo's lightweight ThinkPad ticks all the boxes of a great work notebook.
    

Except one, keyboard.

The ThinkPad 25 Anniversary Edition is the only real proffessional laptop
available because it also has proffessionnal keyboard.

------
chendragon
I'm wondering what the max sustained TDP of the CPU on this is like. On a
MacBook Pro (13,2), the Intel processor package can pull 42-45W of power for
an indefinitely long time without throttling down below that power level, even
on batteries iirc. I'd hope that PC laptops get this at some point; this is
one of the main reasons I still buy Mac

------
IdontRememberIt
I have been using it for years. No complain except the screen. As a dev. I
would prefer it to be 16/10\. I cannot understand the use case for a 16/9 in
the pro world. Little detail: when I wear a formal shirt, the sleeve tends to
get "stucked" (due to the border having a high angle ">" ).

------
4ad
No 16:10 (or preferably even taller, like 4:3) screen, no buy.

I really wish there was an alternative for the 16:10 mac I am using now, but
there isn't anymore (apart from old ThinkPads, which I have many of[1]).

I tried some Microsoft Surface stuff but they felt very flimsy.

[1]
[https://lobste.rs/s/txuvvs/lenovo_new_linux_desktop_experien...](https://lobste.rs/s/txuvvs/lenovo_new_linux_desktop_experience#c_ujt6hj)

~~~
masklinn
> I tried some Microsoft Surface stuff but they felt very flimsy.

Even the Book? Flimsy is not a criticism I've ever heard about it.

~~~
4ad
Yes, in my opinion it's flimsy and feels cheap, not as bad as some cheap Asus
laptops, but worse even than a Dell Latitude, and the Dell is way worse than a
Macbook or a ThinkPad.

This is too bad, because the screen is excellent.

My understanding though is that it runs Linux poorly, which makes all this
moot.

------
speedplane
Can someone explain to me why a ThinkPad is preferable to an XPS 15 besides
nostalgia?

~~~
harel
The keyboard is not even a different league - it's a whole different ball
game.

~~~
speedplane
This is the type of stuff I want to hear (I'm replacing my 4 year old laptop
in the next two months)... what's so good about thinkpad keyboards?

~~~
ohtwenty
You can type, you feel that you're typing, and you kind of start to understand
why typing might even be considered fun.

It's a bit hard to explain, the travel on the keys is just really good,
comfortable size and shape, etc. See if you can borrow one for a day and type
on it, it took me an hour or so to get used to but now any other laptop
keyboard feels wrong.

~~~
speedplane
I've had great desktop keyboards, but never a good laptop keyboard. I'll check
it out.

------
homero
How's it still ddr3?

~~~
masklinn
Because there still isn't any LPDDR4 support in the Intel line, these laptops
are intended to move around a lot and thus need good standby life, and you
can't have 32GB of LPDDR3.

------
qwerty456127
Is there a convertible "Yoga"-kind version available?

~~~
nexxer
I have the 2017 X1 Carbon Yoga. As a laptop itself it's great, excellent
keyboard and ergonomics, fast enough, good battery. What I didn't expect was
to make so much use of its touch screen or "tent" form. It is very useful when
collaborating on something with another person next to you, as it brings the
screen closer.

The only negative is the endless finger blotches all over the laptop's body. I
feel I'm constantly cleaning it.

~~~
qwerty456127
I am considering buying it. Thank you for sharing the experience! By the way,
have you tried using a stylus to minimize the amount of finger fat you leave
on the screen? Or are the blotches on the cover actually so visible?

------
joeseeder
I am a late time convert to stinkpads, But they changed my perspective on what
a work machine should be - trackpoint, or you don’t get my money.

Now on a second X1... the only thing I miss is Ryzen option in the current
lineup

------
emilfihlman
Now change the aspect ratio to 3:2

~~~
IdontRememberIt
Maybe check the Matebook X pro (Which is a MacBook pro copycat by Huawei):
[https://consumer.huawei.com/en/tablets/matebook-x-
pro/](https://consumer.huawei.com/en/tablets/matebook-x-pro/)

------
Teeer
It costs $1500 - $2600, but it still has a basic integrated graphics card?

The specs do not make this seem worth it...

~~~
kakwa_
1) A dedicated GPU in a laptop, specially a thin one like the X1 Carbon, is a
bit of a nightmare. It consums a lot energy, it needs a lot of heat
dissipation, and it can even reduce the life span and robustness of the
laptop.

2) The X1 carbon is not targeted at video games/video editing. It's targeted
at usages like programming or word/excel editing. For these use cases,
integrated GPUs are more than good enough.

3) Dedicated GPUs tends also to be a little bit of a nightmare, specially
around managing drivers. This is particularly true under Linux. On one hand
you have Intel GPUs with open sourced drivers directly in the main line
kernel. On the other you have the Nvidia drivers, which are proprietary,
requires DKMS and can stop supporting older models, and the ATI version is
about the same.

4) if you really need a dedicated GPU, the W serie is for you (and maybe some
T serie laptop as well).

~~~
sundvor
Given that the X1C'18 has a proper 4 PCIE Lane Thunderbolt, just buy an e-GPU
if you need decent gaming - e.g. go to a LAN party, that kind of thing.

Considering it has a proper quad core CPU in such a thin frame, it's the best
of both worlds really. The external GPUs really sort out the thermal issues
when gaming on a laptop.

I have the OG X1 Carbon, still going well - glad I got the i7/8/256ssd model
which was top of the line when it first was released (i7 was actually only
avail with 4gb so bought i5, but then I had to return it due to a chassis
issue; by the time that was sorted, the i7/8 was available!).

I run Win10 on it now which is perfect; had to disable the trackpad when I
used Linux a few years ago. Love the Trackpoint, can't see myself upgrading to
something that doesn't.

------
chvid
Honestly I would still buy the Macbook 15" over this. Regardless of only USB-C
and silly touchbar. Better screen, better OS, better service ...

------
unicornporn
I'm so sorry to see that they're still pushing the clamshell design. By that I
mean that the lower portion of the laptop is thinner at the front. Extremely
unflattering and no less than an attack on their design legacy. Looks like
every other laptop out there. Visible here:
[https://i.imgur.com/1ddfJ1Y.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1ddfJ1Y.jpg)

(Writing this on X220.)

------
penguinUzer
I wish they would drop the Trackpoint and the physical mouse buttons and make
the touchpad bigger. I carry a usb trackball for that.

My beater laptop that I carry everywhere is a Thinkpad 11e. I deal with the
terrible screen so I can have the wonderful keyboard and trackpad. A faster
cpu and a 1920x1200 IPS screen would make the little 11e my perfect laptop...

~~~
berkut
Ha - I'd prefer the opposite! - get rid of the trackpad :)

~~~
lorenzhs
Some old models (X201 or X201s iirc, so around 2011) could be configured
without a trackpad. A 12-inch notebook with a 7-row keyboard and trackpoint is
fantastic!

~~~
mmarx
It wasn't even an option on the older ones like my 2005 X41. But indeed the
keyboard/trackpoint combination on the X201 was perfect.

