
YC Is Not a School for Startups; It's Marine Corps Boot Camp for Founders - iamwil
http://earbitscom.posterous.com/yc-is-not-a-school-for-startups-it-is-marine#
======
znt
So, I've actually gone through the local version of Marine Corps training with
the 'crawling on your belly through mud with bullets whizzing over your head'
part and served near North Iraq for 9 months as a squad leader. It was
basically hard like hell and fainting teammates due to exhaustion wasn't
unusual during basic training.

Should I include this experience to my application form if I ever decide to
apply to YCombinator?

~~~
mindcrime
Cool. I never did quite that, but I was a volunteer firefighter and a
firefighter instructor who literally crawled on my belly in smoke-filled
buildings, with a fire burning inside, with nothing but a flashlight and a 2"
hoseline, and with flashover a possiblity at any moment... and I trained guys
to do LP gas firefighting where the simulator generated so much heat that guys
routinely found their helmets partially melted after a training drill. Wonder
if I should put any of that stuff on my YC application?

~~~
kovar
The trick is finding an effective way to include this in your story. YC isn't,
or shouldn't, be your only incubator option and others will require you to
communicate your story with very few words. (And just because YC doesn't
require it doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep it in mind.)

I run an international SAR team (www.1srg.org) and kept forgetting that it was
a startup. I've been trying to include that experience while not adding too
many words. The resulting story is much tighter, and hopefully more
compelling.

Invest in good prose....

~~~
mindcrime
Good point. And that's something I'm not terribly good at yet. I tend to use
too many words when communicating. I need to learn to tighten things up a bit.
:-(

~~~
eru
Write, then re-write.

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bootload
_"... Like war, everything in startups is life or death ..."_

I appreciate the enthusiasm & romanticism of the story, but don't for a minute
confuse working in a Startup and a real _"life & death"_ situation. Things
have to be done perfectly, freeze, screw up or make a mistake and you end up
with a corpse instead of a person. Why not say it, _"as it is"_ \- a
relatively safe, exciting creative job where you get to make your own
decisions, create things, have fun and maybe make some money.

------
pekinb
Headlines like this are one of the dangers of our little HN niche.

~~~
cabinguy
Exactly. I had a comment ready to go but I didn't want to get too negative on
the OP so I deleted it. He forgets that kids his age will die this week doing
what his fantasy analogies describe. As someone who served 4 years in the
military, I found parts of this post offensive.

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simonw
Don't be distracted by the Marine Corp analogy. This is a really accurate
description of what it feels like to do YC.

~~~
rhizome
The description makes me think I'm trying too hard at this stuff. What does an
investor think when they see words assembled in this way?

I'm not bagging on this guy specifically, but this article/description is
below-average writing even for a high-school dropout. I'm not trying to
quibble on semantics or be a grammar-nazi, though I'm sure I'm doing both, but
it's long, vague, jumpy, and plain hard to read.

~~~
earbitscom
Do you mean investors like Dave McClure who write in all lower case? Or
investors like Matt Coffin, who writes his "you" with a u, even in public
posts? Just trying to get a little clarification here. And, to answer your
question, more than a dozen investors have thought, "Let me sign this
convertible note."

~~~
ascendant
Just because they're investors doesn't mean they're off the hook for writing
like crap. Having a lot of money isn't a free pass for mangling the English
language.

~~~
davemc500hats
neither does it mean they're awesome if they use perfect punctuation and
grammar.

some optimize for speed & utility... others optimize for look & feel. neither
is necessarily correct, just different.

~~~
rhizome
Why should we assume that this writing style is evidence of optimization
rather than plain skill?

------
pclark
Warfighting by the US Marine Corp is actually a very great book for
entrepreneurs to read:
<http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/service_pubs/mcdp1.pdf>

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damoncali
Actually, the difference between the two is enormous.

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fleitz
Does this mean that you can apply and fail as many times as you want but if
you quit then you're done for life?

This is how the Marnie Corps Officer Training program works.

------
harscoat
I love that "Esprit de Corps/Sparta" Mystic (after graduating I joined 5 years
the Paris Fire Brigade, my parents/friends thinkin WTFF!). Even though ones
can keep in mind that it's a training methodology (for the days you are about
to sob like a little boy due to sheer, to the bones exhaustion), it produces
great results: * It aligns everything you have (any cells, not just neurons)
towards one clear goal "Fulfill la mission sacré (or die;)" (as to speak in
Foreign Legion language); for me "relentlessly ressourceful" is that rustic
légionnaire mentality (no big logistic ressources at the Legion) "no excuses",
"Marche ou crève", you gotta find a way and you are not scared to violently
execute ("getting ones fingers out of his a." Pardon my french). You learn so
much more just because of the intensity (things stick in your brain, are
tattooed in your body once for all). You receive very tough feedback which is
what we need as we are too much in love with our ideas. You are able to say
"screw that", pivot radically throw all what you build away to start afresh,
or say no without blinking ("Ca me fera pas un 2ème trou au c.l"). You make
friends like rarely one can make (that network becomes a fantastic ressource
when you need help now!/yesterday). Finally because of that harsh training,
the skin you have put into it, you can go extra 10 miles nobody would have
ever believed one could (eg. Airbnb crazy story: they did not give up! That's
also why imo YC looks for never giving up on the mission Determination: to get
the maximum run for their investment). Congrats to PG for forging that mystic
that YC "Esprit de Corps": makes business sense, but sure must be a
unforgettable defining experience.

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delineal
In my experience, any job or any company you start can be exactly as
described. If you allow yourself to take on responsibility and then own that
responsibility, your life will tend to be dominated by a sense of obligation
to that responsibility. There are always highs and lows in any pursuit. When
the times get rough, you just have to put on your best smile and do whatever
needs doing. There's no point in complaining; you made the choice to be where
you are.

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rhizome
"Marine Corp," eh?

~~~
dctoedt
I suspect that if the OP had actually gone through Parris Island or San Diego,
the friendly on-site staff would have helped him remember how to spell it
correctly.

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nzmsv
On an unrelated note, apparently I missed the Earbits post a few days ago, so
I thought I'd check it out. First thing it told me was:

    
    
      WTF?
      You need Adobe Flash to stream music...
      We thought you knew this, but apparently you need reminding.
    

That's a little too "bootcamp", isn't it?

------
earbitscom
To clarify, this was intended to imply that YC is more stressful and intense
than any schooling I have ever seen. So, it seemed more akin to training for
"life and death" situations. And, since you're training with the best of the
best young founders, it's simply a compliment to the Marines. Take it or leave
it.

~~~
cabinguy
I don't want to keep piling on but it seems like you still don't get it. One
of the reasons your post got such a negative response is because you are
comparing yourself to people who put themselves in harms way for your benefit.

There is a difference between having your startup fail and actually being shot
in the f'ing face by a high powered rifle. And you even ripped on the Marines
that may have joined as a way to pay for college, as if they are beneath you
and your peers.

Do not compare yourself to real soldiers (or sailors), there is no comparison.
Just accept it and move on.

~~~
earbitscom
Not to keep piling it on, but when someone says "this is the Cadillac of
sandwiches," do you say "Cadillac was founded in 1902 and employs tens of
thousands of hard working Americans. How dare you?!"

People call YC a school for startups. I used a metaphor that implied it's far
harder than school, and that the people in it are among the best you can hope
to be working alongside. It's a metaphor and meant to be both a compliment to
YC, and to the Marines. It doesn't make me comparable to a Marine, just like
it doesn't make tuna on rye a car.

~~~
cabinguy
Ok...we can keep going. If you would have said "YC is like the Marines of
startup incubators" and left it at that, it would have been fine. But you
didn't say that. You went a lot further than that. You made very specific
comparisons including a condescending remark that you and your peers aren't
here to _just_ pay their college tuition, etc...

I am quite sure that your intentions were not malicious, but the response to
your post is the response to your post.

Did YC teach you and your "best of the best" peers to know when you made a
mistake, how to fix it and then move on? If so, now would be a good time to
put it into practice, imo.

~~~
earbitscom
I see...this is all a misunderstanding based on you not having read this
correctly.

"...it could easily be the Air Force, or the Navy, right? Wrong. YC is the
Marine Corp...[like the Marines] You are not serving next to people who are in
it for the college money."

Yet again a metaphor intended to describe similarities...a compliment to the
Marines, specifically. I have met plenty of people who went into other
branches of the military just to earn money for college. Nobody goes into the
Marines just to earn money for college. I can't see how you turned that into
an issue.

It's really unfortunate. I have had the great opportunity to go through a
world class program designed to turn the most dedicated professionals from a
field into some of its strongest leaders. It is not for the weak-willed and my
post was intended to convey that to people interested in the program. I
thought I could relay that message by comparing it to a world class training
organization of another kind, in which only people of the highest dedication
should consider joining. It was my way of saying that what PG has put together
is the best of the best, just like the US Marines. I am sorry that you had to
nitpick it and turn it into a semantic argument. I'm happy to move on, but my
compliment to the Marines and to the program PG has put together is nothing to
apologize for.

------
acconrad
My dad was a Marine Corps sniper in Vietnam. I'm pretty sure you won't get
PTSD from doing YC.

~~~
ChrisCooper
He said "boot camp", not active service. My best wishes to your dad.

------
velshin
Please stop the hate and look past the Marine Corp analogy. This post
described the stresses of early startup life very well, and was entertaining
to read.

To anyone just dropping in on this, skip the HN comments and read the post.

------
Keyframe
...or more like MLM bootcamp.

------
hncommenter13
"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is
my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My
rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my
rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I
must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we
fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the
hits that count. We will hit...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as
a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its
accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the
ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes
and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will
become part of each other. We will...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my
country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be
it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifleman%27s_Creed>

YC is great, but reading this should make it clear that nothing in startup
land is remotely comparable.

------
tedjdziuba
I applied to YC and at one point during the pitch, pg said to me, in his best
R. Lee Ermey, Full Metal Jacket voice, "Hell, I like you. You can come over to
my house and fuck my sister!"

True story.

~~~
helwr
you made my day

