
Millennials are killing chains like Buffalo Wild Wings and Applebee's - ryan_j_naughton
http://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-endanger-casual-dining-restaurants-2017-5
======
Arainach
Millennials are simultaneously not buying houses because we spend too much
eating out ([http://time.com/money/4778942/avocados-millennials-home-
buyi...](http://time.com/money/4778942/avocados-millennials-home-buying/)) and
killing off chains by not eating out enough. At some point businesses need to
stop blaming everything on the "millennials" bogeyman and accept
responsibility for not adapting to modern trends.

Fundamentally, I can get a far better meal by any metric - price, quality of
food, flavor, often more than one of the above - pretty much anywhere other
than casual dining chains like Applebees/Buffalo Wild Wings. If I'm going to
dedicate the time and money to sitting down and going out, I'd like something
better than two microwaved steaks and a platter of mozzarella sticks for $25.

~~~
rayiner
The other thing the article ignores is that chains like Applebees have been
getting worse over time. My family used to go to the local Applebees all the
time in the late 1990s. In 2000, they had a major menu change. The food became
much worse, and we stopped going there.

~~~
SpikeDad
Yep. Our Applebees put in self-serve payment stations recently and the level
of service went down precipitously. Servers know the computer will force 20%
tip on the diner regardless of the quality of service. People are too lazy to
reduce the tip appropriately.

~~~
harryh
I don't think that it's laziness that makes people not reduce the tip. I think
that, somehow, when there is a default that becomes a kind of anchor and going
below that is seen as ruder than it would have been if the customer was able
to choose their own tip% independent of a suggestion.

At least that's kind of how I feel when I take a cab in NYC where the default
tip% buttons on the credit card machines are 20/25/30.

~~~
Simulacra
Tip anchoring really makes me angry. It's manipulative.

~~~
tptacek
If you look at tips as a cost sharing mechanism that allows the restaurant to
push some of its personnel costs onto customers, it's irrational to be angry
about this, just like it would be irrational to be upset about a 10% increase
on the menu prices. If the food isn't worth it (spoiler: it isn't), eat
elsewhere.

~~~
harryh
Further, to the degree that tip anchoring reduces tipping variance, the
anchoring should actually make the system work better overall.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Further, to the degree that tip anchoring reduces tipping variance.

Does it do that at all? I would suspect that it increases the mean but also
the variance.

~~~
harryh
That's a good question. My intuition is that it would decrease the variance as
people would be drawn towards the anchor. But I could be wrong. We'd need
empirical data to know. There is public data available on credit card
purchases in NYC cabs. That will just give you the data for payments with the
anchor though, not the cash payments made without it.

~~~
dragonwriter
> My intuition is that it would decrease the variance as people would be drawn
> towards the anchor.

If it's anchor vs. no norm, sure. But anchoring is trying to move a pre-
existing social norm as to tipping rates, so its an additional competing
standard to which some but not all people will be drawn from whatever their
prior basis was, not a standard introduced where none existed before.

~~~
harryh
Ya, that makes sense. Could go either way. Def one of those "not gonna know
without looking at the data" situations.

------
sdiupIGPWEfh
Let's read between the lines, as these articles rarely do.

> "Millennial consumers are more attracted than their elders to cooking at
> home..."

Almost as if this generation, having less to spend, has learned to enjoy
cheaper options.

> "...ordering delivery from restaurants and eating quickly, in fast-casual or
> quick-serve restaurants...Customers often spend less when ordering
> delivery..."

Supporting the argument that they're poorer on average, with a dash of having
less free time. I wonder how much this behavior intersects with having to work
multiple jobs?

Combined with sub-par food from these establishments, it's no wonder they're
having problems.

------
CountSessine
Speaking as a Gen-Xer, I'm always amused by these news articles accusing
Millenials of killing one thing or another simply through non-participation. I
guess back in my day I was responsible for killing country clubs and small-
town bowling alleys. Go figure!

~~~
cholantesh
I also appreciate the language of articles like this one and the one about
malls that BI published awhile back. Wherein it's implied heavily that there
is some moral imperative to support MNCs and millennials should be ashamed for
abstaining from it.

~~~
CountSessine
_millennials should be ashamed for abstaining from it_

I know - such selfishness! Think of the shareholders!

------
tyrw
This probably also has something to do with the ability to get on-demand
restaurant ratings for virtually any establishment. It used to be that the
only way to know you'd get a decent meal was to visit a large brand name, and
that's simply not the case anymore. Now the great restaurants have similarly
great reviews and that's where people choose to go, regardless of whether
they'd heard of it before.

~~~
bigzen
I just wanted to highlight this comment. The rating review systems are
becoming a trusted source of information more so than advertisements.

Reminds me of another comment on here that talked about how so much of tech is
solving communication problems. In this case the communication of past human
experiences to a current restaraunt goer.

~~~
majewsky
> The rating review systems are becoming a trusted source of information more
> so than advertisements.

And this is also precisely why I don't have any moral reservations blocking
ads. Ads are being obsoleted as a source of information so that it's
increasingly hard to justify why we would need any of them to fulfil our
needs.

------
DiabloD3
The entire article misses the point.

All of the chains like Buffalo Wild Wings and Applebee's serve absolutely
horrible food, with horrible service, with no redeeming qualities anywhere in
the experience.

And then do so at an abusively high price.

 _Fuck them_ , and they deserve to go under.

~~~
khazhou
Sure the food and service are horrible, but on the other hand, the tables are
sticky and the floor is filthy with scraps of food.

------
pg_bot
Adapt or die, if you can't figure out what your customers want then you
deserve to go out of business. I've never seen a company become successful by
blaming their customers for their problems. Take a deep breath figure out what
your flaws are and you can fix them.

------
ganoushoreilly
It could also be that the chains aren't know for good food. When pressed with
Spending money on Dinner, It's more often a local small restaurant that I go
to vs. a chain. I think the excessive use of microwave cooking is what turned
me off. I do however see the value in more casual dine and go restaurants. I'd
rather order the food I want and get out with exception of _date night_.

~~~
c0nducktr
I think it's more the atmosphere than the food.

I like Buffalo Wild Wings food (well, the wings at least), but everytime I go
there it's this gymnasium-sized open restaurant with awful music playing...
There's a bar, but it's not what I want a bar to be. There are booths, but
they offer no privacy.

It's just a place to get wings, which is fine, but for what I spend going to
bdubs I can go to any number of other places with equally good or better food,
which also have a better atmosphere.

~~~
GVIrish
My thing with BW3's is that watching sports at a sports bar kinda sucks. You
can't hear the commentating and you can't really hear your friends either.

We'll still order takeout on occasion but if we're gonna sit down to eat
there's no reason to eat at BW3's. Applebee's, Friday's , and Ruby Tuesday's
just aren't good enough for the money you spend. I'd rather eat somewhere
local with a more interesting and well executed menu for the money.

------
mrfusion
I also feel like the food at these places has gotten worse over the past five
or ten years plus smaller portions.

I feel like ten years ago more of the food was cooked on premises but now it
seems like almost everything is frozen and microwaved.

~~~
hermanradtke
Yep and places like BWW completely changed their menu structure for the worse.
These places sunk themselves.

~~~
novia
Within the last 5 years, BWW removed honey mustard from the selection of
sauces available for wings, and they replaced it with "bourbon honey mustard,"
which absolutely tastes like ass. Whenever that was, that's when they lost
this millennial's business. I complained to my server but they said the
decision came down from corporate and there was nothing they could do.

------
gozur88
Meh. The restaurant business is always in constant churn, and it's almost as
trendy as fashion. This week "casual dining" is out; next week it'll be back
in and the analysts will have some plausible-sounding explanation.

~~~
Evansbee
Most likely it will be millennial focused.

------
fullshark
The article hints at this but I think the rise of fast-casual is more
responsible. Why pay 20% more just to have someone bring your food to you? The
value just isn't there to justify it.

------
Zarath
Buffalo Wild Wings is awful. I can barely have a conversation with anyone
because everyone's attention is constantly being grabbed by 50 big screen tvs
blaring sound and loud music. Not to mention the food is not good and the
tables are always sticky.

I also wonder if there is evidence that millenials are more health conscious
and see these places as unhealthy?

~~~
khazhou
Wait, the tables are sticky even AFTER they're wiped down with that filthy
damp rag??

------
brightball
Seriously, I would go to Applebee's if they had a better selection of gluten
free options. My wife has celiac and the entire family doesn't go there to eat
if they can't properly serve her.

Right now, they bring out some giant chart and you have to decipher it while
cross referencing the menu. It takes longer, lowers your confidence that they
know what they are doing and is embarrassing for the person having to dig
through it all. Somebody at Applebee's needs to take a trip to Outback and ask
for a gluten free menu.

Bottom line: if somebody in the group will have to worry about their meal, the
restaurant is off the list.

~~~
mark-r
It surprises me that more restaurants haven't figured out that gluten-free is
a big trend. Certainly the grocery stores have noticed. The chances that one
member of your group will have issues are high enough to affect sales.

~~~
Simulacra
I think because it is exactly that, a trend, and not a very strong one. It's
unpredictable and no one is sure when it's going to collapse, but there might
be the sentiment that it is going to collapse and I don't want to get sucked
down with it

~~~
brightball
I realize that some people have picked it up as trendy, but for many it's a
medical necessity and not an optional choice.

Vegan is a trend.

------
mattmurdog
Millennials are not making as much as other generations, and at the same time
they are spending outside their means. They spend money on travels, eating out
at hipster places, bars and electronics such as upgrading their iphone every
year. Chains like Buffalo are not exciting, they cater to Moms and Dads
because they are not organic, fusion or Instagramable.

~~~
djeikyb
A lot of my millenial friends are mothers and fathers...

Anyway. We avoid Applebee's and Buffalo Wild Wings. The food is terrible. Even
if it was mediocre, it's overpriced. There are better restaurants _at the same
price_ , or lower.

> and at the same time they are spending outside their means

It amuses me to no end that we millenials are simultaneously criticized for
not spending enough.

------
SpikeDad
Um, YAY!. Nothing is worse than some real estate baron dropping a couple mil
and building some zombie chain restaurant. They know nothing about food and
care only about squeezing profits out of the locals.

Nobody local every opens a chain and so they don't care about the community or
food quality.

I try very hard to stick to locally owned restaurants but sometimes they're
few and far between - especially in a college town like I live.

------
squozzer
As someone who has been around a little while, I've noticed that your typical
casual-dining chain has a lifecycle that usually ends with bankruptcy. Their
staying power depends mostly on their quality (both food and dining
experience) and somewhat on their trendiness.

Lower-tier restaurants, e.g. McD's or even Domino's, probably have some
immunity to this problem because the expectations are rather low.

As far as pizza goes, I've been known to eat the frozen stuff, so the big
delivery chains are a huge step up.

I have also noticed when dining at more ethnic places (in my case, Viet pho),
younger people are more common there.

Ditto for tapas - which some people my age don't seem to like because the
portions are small.

So if millenials are to blame - to echo the sentiments of another commentor -
for the de-mediocritization of American dining, then I will die a little
happier.

------
somberi
I am over 40 and I normally patronize eateries in NYC or cook at home.

Recently after years, I went to TGI Fridays. I was amused at how bad the food
was in quality and nutritive value [1]. It was hard to find anything healthy
to eat. Until a decade ago, going to TGIF or Applebees defined dining out, or
chilling after work, in most of the US.

The food, once cautiously chosen for pain avoidance, costed $35 for two. I
won't know enough to comment how America at large treats these chains, or even
if they have the same cultural relevance they had in the 1990s, but I for one
see their whimsical demise.

1\.
[https://www.tgifridays.com/pdf/nutrition.pdf](https://www.tgifridays.com/pdf/nutrition.pdf)

------
sehugg
I wonder how much Netflix has affected restaurant sales. Given the choice
between an expensive Sysco bag-o-food and my own cooking + superior bevs +
catching up on shows, I know what I usually choose. It's a shame, because it's
not just chain restaurants that serve crap, many mom-and-pop places do too for
economic (or labor quality) reasons -- and their success is not strictly tied
to the quality of the food.

------
Simulacra
I think it's also possible that millennial's are realizing and recognizing the
awful system that these chain restaurants perpetuate with servers making low
wages, tipping, bad food, and high prices. Whereas my parents generation have
always seen these as nice occasional dinners out, millennials see them as
perpetuating a disadvantaged system.

------
brookside
Won't somebody think of terrible corporate strip-mall sprawl America?

------
dfansteel
The Riblet is a terrible signature food and deserves to be destroyed.

------
jonbarker
So are my parents.

