
BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program - MRonney
http://techli.com/2012/07/black-girls-code-fund-program/
======
JPKab
I realize that the realities of the limited resources available for charities
and non-profits is what leads to the ethnic and gender based targeting, but
this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is it a good cause? Yes. Teaching
any disadvantaged group a useful skill is a great thing, but solving a problem
of exclusion with further exclusion is, in principal, bad.

I grew up in a poor, mostly black, rural county in Virginia. The opportunities
for learning to code were zero. There was no computer science class, while
students attending public schools in the DC suburbs of northern Virginia got
to have programming classes starting in middle school.

People WANTED to learn to code, but they couldn't. These were poor people, of
all colors and genders.

Will this make Women's Studies graduates and professors happy? Yes. Will it
make African-American Studies graduates and professors happy? Probably.

I could point out the bullshit in this idea in so many ways, but I'll stick
with just one:

Among black americans, which group has a lower graduation rate? Males or
females? Which group is more likely to be unemployed, males or females? Which
group is more likely to be incarcerated? The list goes on.

I know it's not cool to help boys/males these days, but all the statistics
point to a dramatic problem with young men of all races today. It's too bad
that there isn't a powerful special interest group backed up by a bunch of
humanities professors looking out for the impoverished non-black non-females
of America.

Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing
favorites.

~~~
_pius
I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point.

 _Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on
playing favorites._

This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a
legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do
it.

Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the
world?

~~~
vijayr
I understand where the GP is coming from.

Teaching kids to code is an absolutely nice thing to do. But segregating based
on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or
Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class? They'll be turned away?

To give an example: India is a deeply divided society, based on caste/religion
etc. In many educational institutions, huge percentage of seats are reserved
for the so called "lower" castes. So a kid, who gets very low grades, can get
into a good institution, just because he is from a lower caste, _even_ if that
kid's family is rich. On the other hand, a poor kid from a so called "higher"
caste, can't get in, even after getting high grades, as there are only so many
seats and competition is tough. This has wrecked havoc in the Indian society,
as absolutely dumb kids get into good colleges, while bright kids are left
out.

Charities should never ever be based on color, gender, caste etc. Charity
should be based on need and need only. Any kid who wants to learn to code,
should be welcome, irrespective of their color. It does however, make sense to
say no based on affordability - meaning, saying no to a rich kid makes sense,
as he/she will find another teacher anyway, because he/she can afford it.

Again, she is doing a great noble work, no question about it. It would be even
more awesome, if she just taught all kids, instead of just black kids.

~~~
king_jester
> But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What
> if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class?

Charities are free to focus on where the most need is based on the limited
resources they have. There is a significant lack of women of color in US tech
circles, so there is nothing wrong with a charity targeting that. Charity by
definition won't be able to focus on everyone.

> To give an example: India is a deeply divided society, based on
> caste/religion etc.

This is a US-based charity targeting people of color living in the US.
Comparisons between the US and India are not helpful here.

> Charities should never ever be based on color, gender, caste etc. Charity
> should be based on need and need only.

This is nonsense. Those that would benefit the most from this charity program
already face discrimination and lack of opportunity BECAUSE OF their race and
gender.

> It would be even more awesome, if she just taught all kids, instead of just
> black kids.

It would also be awesome if social barriers didn't exist at all and this kind
of program wouldn't be needed, but we don't live in that world. That said,
this program is absolutely doing good work and is right to target who needs
this kind of assistance the most.

~~~
JPKab
The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted
and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their
CULTURE. Dress the wrong way, speak in the wrong dialect (whether that is an
Appalachian dialect or a Memphis African American dialect) at a job interview,
and you are likely to be discriminated against.

A huge number of black Americans in the U.S. face discrimination because they
grew up in a culture which affects the way that they dress, speak, and act.
The Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson has a fascinating book called
Disintegration about the various cultures present in the African American
population in the United States. The particular culture of African Americans
that faces the huge barriers of discrimination, bad schools, and bad
upbringing are referred to in his book as "the Abandoned." As a white American
who grew up in a trailer park in a mostly black area of the rural south, I
happen to have a knowledge that most white Americans I encounter don't SEEM to
have. And that is that the vast majority of discrimination against black
americans is selectively directed against the "Abandoned", mainly in a
passive, rather than active way. It is much more insidious in that sense.

I bring this up because too often I see whites who simply don't know anything
other than what they learned in a college class say that "blacks" face
barriers. It is much, much more complex than that. Here's a quote from a New
York Times book review of Robinson's work:

"During the past four decades, Robinson persuasively argues, black America has
splintered into four subgroups: the Transcendent elite; the Mainstream middle
class, which now accounts for a majority of black Americans; an Emergent
community made up of mixed-race families and black immigrants from Africa and
the Caribbean; and the Abandoned, a large and growing underclass concentrated
in the inner cities and depressed pockets of the rural South."

~~~
king_jester
> The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted
> and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their
> CULTURE.

Ah of course, if only people acted more white they wouldn't have all these
problems! /s

Improving ones class status or conforming to mainstream, white ideas about
acceptable culture do not in any way stop or erase racism. Systemic and
institutional racism affects all people of color. That some have different
experiences or are affected differently is to be expected given how racism
intersects with class and gender.

> As a white American who grew up in a trailer park in a mostly black area of
> the rural south, I happen to have a knowledge that most white Americans I
> encounter don't SEEM to have

You definitely may have a different experience compared to other white people,
but you aren't black and don't live that experience, this factoid isn't
relevant. By definition you cannot claim to know black experience first hand
because you are not black.

> And that is that the vast majority of discrimination against black americans
> is selectively directed against the "Abandoned", mainly in a passive, rather
> than active way.

I don't dispute that the most marginalized people are the most affected by
racism, classism, etc. However, that doesn't mean that racism doesn't affect
people of color who have class privileges.

BlackGirlsCode is a program directly targeted at the people you call
"Abandoned" (get way to establish other-ness by not calling them people and
implying that at some point these people were cared for by the mainstream).
The whole reason why this program exists in the first place is to help people
who have been hit the hardest by racism, classism, and gender discrimination.

~~~
JPKab
'Abandoned' is Eugene Robinson's term. He is a famous, left of center
political commentator and writer for the Washington Post. He is black, and if
you had any idea of what you were talking about, you would realize that
'Abandoned' doesn't reference them being taken care of by the mainstream at
one point. It references the fact that the 'white flight' of the 1950's - 70's
is a misnomer. It was really a middle class flight from cities, but the black
middle class was delayed in their "abandoning" the inner cities due to racist
housing discrimination policies in white suburbs. Once these were taken away
in the 60's, the black middle class also fled the cities.

"Ah of course, if only people acted more white they wouldn't have all these
problems"

This statement is exactly what I'm talking about. As if there is one 'white'
culture in America. There isn't. I speak in a different manner at work than I
do at home. My native dialect is not considered acceptable in business. I
don't say y'all or ain't, and I shorten my words into the Anglo-Saxon,
northeastern dialect that is the de-facto business standard English of the
U.S. If I don't, I suffer the consequences. 'White' is a race, not a culture.
But again, you completely miss this. I guess you also think that a black
person who speaks in a north-eastern anglo-saxon dialect is 'acting white'
correct? This is such bullshit, and it is the epitome of a person who learned
about culture in a classroom, rather than living in a truly integrated
environment.

My best friend growing up was victimized (physically attacked) by 'Abandoned'
kids because he did well in school and 'acted white.'(there words, not mine)
Nice to see this type of thinking isn't limited to just them. /s

The majority of white people I encounter who claim to be multicultural have
never even spent the night under the roof of a person of color, let alone
attended churches or social gatherings to truly understand that its about
culture, not race.

~~~
king_jester
> It was really a middle class flight from cities, but the black middle class
> was delayed in their "abandoning" the inner cities due to racist housing
> discrimination policies in white suburbs. Once these were taken away in the
> 60's, the black middle class also fled the cities.

You are right that white flight is really a class flight, but we should be
clear that whites overwhelmingly benefited from this movement for a variety of
reasons, including their easier access to better economic status and the
enactment of racist laws that prohibited non-whites from participating in
moving to the suburbs.

However, calling people "abandoned" still doesn't make any sense. How can a
group of people be abandoned if they were never included in the mainstream in
the first place? In a capitalist economy like the US, the middle class depends
on the poor to continue to function and that kind of classism is a big part of
our society. Ultimately all that matters is that people of color still face
many barriers and oppressions, micro and macro, every day and those
oppressions are intersectional with race, gender, and class, among other
things.

> This statement is exactly what I'm talking about. As if there is one 'white'
> culture in America.

In the US, there IS only one mainstream culture and it places whiteness above
other races. When I say white culture, I do not strictly mean the various
cultures and histories of lightly skinned people. Rather, I'm talking about
mainstream American culture: white, hetero-normative, imperialist, capitalist,
and patriarchal enterprise.

> My best friend growing up was victimized (physically attacked) by
> 'Abandoned' kids because he did well in school and 'acted white.'(there
> words, not mine) Nice to see this type of thinking isn't limited to just
> them. /s

I'm sorry that this happened to your friend, but if you are insinuating that
calling point problematic statements is the same as physically beating
someone, you are saying that problematic shit is above criticism.

------
kenjackson
There's a simple test I use for these cases... it's called the "Least
Restrictive Subset Test", or LRST for short. You apply it to see if targeting
a specific group is worthwhile.

It works by asking two simple questions:

1) If I marketed to a less restrictive subset, would I capture a smaller
percentage of my target audience (in proportion to the population)? For
example, if I said, "GirlsCode" -- would I still get ~10% black females
attending? I suspect you'd get the expected percentage of white females
attending, so if white girls were my target audience, I needn't restrict the
audience any further. But for black females I would.

2) If I market to this restricted subset will I likely increase the total
number of my target audience in attendance. For example, if I said,
"WhiteMenCode" do I expect more white men to attend than if I said "MenCode"?
I suspect probably not (at least not people serious about coding, versus just
trying to prove a point about race). But BlackGirlsCode probably will increase
the total number of black females who are serious about learning to code.

I think BlackGirlsCode passes the LRST.

~~~
accountswu
I can see your point but I think it is pretty clear that most of the minority
groups are at a disadvantage to start with (Asian and Jewish minority in US
are exceptions, their income is higher than average, the proportion of Jewish
representation in law schools, for example, is disproportionately higher,
perhaps 35% at Harvard, but that's an exceptionally well-accomplished group).

If the parents don't have enough money to feed the kids, the first thing on
the mind would not be the next programming language to learn, it would be
about the meal for the next afternoon. Compare that kid to someone whose
parents are able to afford the education of kids at the top, most expensive
business school or law school of the country. They are not competing at an
equal level. Unfortunately the average black happens to be much poorer than
the average white (although there are more poor whites than the total number
of poor blacks but that's because the blacks are about 13% of total, whites
are about 72% of the total). [edited]

I don't think anyone in Brazil would have an event "Latina hackathon" but a
"Latina hackathon" in US would be understandable.

[http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/us/study-finds-
medi...](http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/us/study-finds-median-
wealth-for-single-black-women-at-5-236905/#ixzz210IRpCE3)

Study finds median wealth for single black women at $5

Among the most startling revelations in the wealth data is that while single
white women in the prime of their working years (ages 36 to 49) have a median
wealth of $42,600 (still only 61 percent of their single white male
counterparts), the median wealth for single black women is only $5.

------
cschmidt
Wow, such a lot of negative comments. HN really sounds mean sometimes. Sure,
it is a charity program targeting a specific group of people. But that's true
of essentially all charities. The Boy Scouts only help boys, PyLadies only
teaches women to program in Python, the The Global Fund to Fight AIDS,
Tuberculosis and Malaria doesn't help people with cancer. The organizers are
adding to the social good and helping a deserving group of girls. Good for
them.

~~~
rmc
_The Boy Scouts only help boys_

And only straight boys! No gays allowed there (in general).

------
peterwwillis
What I love about this initiative is it solves several problems at once, and
builds a foundation for related groups (women in general, and black people in
general) to gravitate to this field. They'll naturally find people similar to
them and make it easier to relate to their peers.

~~~
taphangum
"They'll naturally find people similar to them and make it easier to relate to
their peers."

Relatability is the key thing. You're spot on here.

------
petercooper
I've been following this program for a while and even got to meet Kimberly at
O'Reilly Fluent earlier in the year.. her enthusiasm is infectious! As
important as her work is to the girls, though, I particularly hope she
inspires other _adults_ to take on this mentoring role so that everywhere can
have its equivalent.

Things like this are springing up all over. For example, here in the UK, Code
Club has been founded by two women to create and support after-school
programming clubs: <http://codeclub.org.uk/>

~~~
zbuc
I volunteered for when they come to Detroit!

------
KuangEleven
One line here stuck out for bad statistics:

"According to research gathered by BlackGirlsCode, African American women make
up 4.8 percent of graduate enrollment in computer science programs, while only
0.03 percent of female Hispanic freshmen intended to major in computer science
in 2006."

To start with, the line implies that these two statistic are related, but they
are about different ethnicities, at different education levels comparing
completely separate metrics!

Secondly, the 4.8 percent statistic seems to imply that this is under-
representation, but being that African Americans make up ~12.6% of the
population and women are very roughly half of that, 4.8 percent seems really
close to demographic representation.

------
rmc
This is great, and good for them.

However as often happens, people are now complaining that they shouldn't have
a programme just for black girls since it's racist/sexist. It's not.
People/groups who need help and are disadvantaged, should be helped. If 2
babies are born, and one is very healthy and one is very sick, we should give
the sick one more medical attention than the healthy one. We should not give
everyone the same amount of help, we should try to ensure that everyone has
the same chance. That means giving one group more help than another. 'Everyone
having the same chance' is what happens when we get rid of racism/sexism
(we're not there yet).

~~~
colmvp
'Everyone having the same chance' is what happens when we get rid of
racism/sexism (we're not there yet).

Indeed. Someone wrote a post about how being born white and male in America is
like starting a character in an RPG with boosted stats.

It does have a hint of truth to it. There is literally nothing a white man
can't do in America whereas other races have significantly less chance of
achieving the same success, especially Asian Americans.

------
summiyah
This is such an important initiative! Several teens that were in my Media
course (focused on Minority Women in Technology) are attending the Atlanta
Session.

------
natrius
Several comments claim that targeting by race is inherently wrong. I disagree.
Anyone want to back that claim up with logic?

~~~
rmc
Sometimes people in the privileged group (male and/or white) don't like
targetting based on race/gender when it's negatively affects _them_.

~~~
fiblye
This kind of "logic" really bothers me.

Just because a chunk of a certain demographic is comparatively "privileged",
we should gloss over all those who struggle to make a living simply because
they were born a white male? If anything, being born poor and white can be
_more_ difficult because people bitch about your "privilege" each time you ask
for the slightest degree of help.

If you're poor and white, you're pretty much screwed when it comes to being
able to afford colleges. Most scholarships serve people that belong to a
certain (non-white) race, religious, or military background. You don't get
access to any tutoring and you're usually working after school to help support
your family, so it's borderline impossible to get a 4.0 GPA and even begin
qualifying for non-racial scholarships.

Outside of racial profiling within America's law enforcement (which is a huge,
huge, huge problem that desperately needs to be fixed), there's really no
"white privilege" in America. It's "high-income privilege." Anybody born of a
wealthy family has a chance, and anybody who isn't suffers. The problem is
that we're still looking at race when determining how much support to offer
instead of looking at how much a person needs it.

~~~
wpietri
> Outside of racial profiling within America's law enforcement [...] there's
> really no "white privilege" in America.

Spoken like a white person. As a fellow white person, let me tell you: you're
wrong.

Some years back I shaved my head for a year or so. The difference was
astounding. People treated me very differently. Suddenly they were scared of
me. I mentioned to some friends that people were now crossing the street to
avoid me. One of them, a tall black male, said, "Well now you know." And he's
right. I look for it now and I see white people doing stuff like this all the
time. I'm sure I miss a lot of it, too.

Anecdotes aside, a study shows that people with white-sounding names get 50%
more job callbacks than people with black-sounding names:
<http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html>

I agree that there's substantial class discrimination, and further that being
poor in the US is a bucket of shit. But although white privilege may have
lessened in the last 50 years, it is still alive and well.

~~~
rmc
Another way (as a man) to get an idea of what's going on. Join a
kitting/crochet group. Try to learn how to knit. (There's knitting circles all
over the place) You'll find yourself in a female dominated environment, tis a
kinda weird feeling at first, and a bit eye opening.

------
malvim
Ok, cool. Everyone has their ideas, they all make sense (we're all reasonably
rational people here) and, in an ideal world, I agree that we should not need
or have these groups. Except... the under-representation is already there, so
we have to deal with it. And I think BGC is a damn fine way to deal with part
of it.

Is there anyone here who is NOT a white male and would care to comment?

~~~
tikhonj
While agree with your comment, I think your last comment is unwarranted.

Just because somebody is a white male does not devalue their point. Moreover,
you should really never judge an argument based on the person making it.

~~~
wpietri
Hi! White male here.

I am absolutely less qualified to comment on racism. Because I very rarely
experience it, and often don't notice it when it happens.

Similarly, I also believe that one should be suspicious of non-technical
managers who have opinions on how to code.

Experience matters.

------
grannyg00se
"Our mission with BlackGirlsCode is to “change the ratio” of women of color in
technology and that begins with introducing computer programming and STEM
subjects to girls of all colors at an early age. "

It's not only for black girls. I suspect it's for all but white though so they
still exclude based on color. And of course age and gender.

I really wish people would stop reinforcing racial discrimination of all
sorts. Even the age discrimination is a bit offensive. I understand it may be
easier to get funding when you can present a narrow group.

~~~
slurgfest
That is why (for example in Python) there is PyLadies, and that is why there
is every other general Python group, in which there is no group-wide
disadvantage for white men. Most of these groups I have been to, have mostly
been white men with lots of alpha-nerding going on. I can't say I have seen
any overt instances of racism but I still totally appreciate that minorities
could be uncomfortable and benefit greatly from a support system that could
increase their comfort level in the community and make them feel more assured.

I don't see this as a zero-sum war against white people and I hope you don't
either.

~~~
grannyg00se
I don't see it as a war against anybody but whenever you discriminate based on
race you are encouraging others to do the same. I don't like to see race
brought up in every facet of life. If it wasn't such a commonly used
differentiator then everybody would feel comfortable in any group because race
would be insignificant.

Taken to the extreme, it becomes downright immature and pathetic. Do we really
need a group specifically for blacks, and one for asians, and one for mixed
black asians, and one for mexicans, and one for indians... etc? Give me a
break. I wish we could all just collectively grow up.

Actually that's not quite right. Young children don't tend to segregate like
that. They have us beat in that area. It's only once they learn our ways that
they start to do it. Again, because it is continually reinforced as a part of
society.

------
mrmusa
There are 3 ways to respond to the critics of BlackGirlsCode: 1) The weakest
response is to grow upset and say nothing 2) The average response will post a
comment in defense of good sense 3) The best response is to take action. So
hit this link up and give Black Girls Code a boost of support and morale
<http://www.blackgirlscode.com/help-us-grow.html>

Finally, when PoorPeopleCode, WhiteBoysCode or Latina Hackathon call upon the
Hacker News community for support, for the sake of whatever you believe in,
GIVE BACK so that others can do what you do. It is NEVER about exclusion. The
_meme_ is about recognizing "I'm blessed with talent, skill and experience so
I help to pay it forward".

I just took the highest level of action by sending my gift of support of $100.

Don't just sit there shaking your head; do something!

------
unit_testing
Why not NonCodersCode?

There are plenty of poor, uneducated white girls and boys who could benefit
from programs like this.

Oh, what's that you say? We already have _enough_ people with their skin color
in the computer science field? Shame on me! You're right -- ignore the white
trash.

The (attractive, affluent, _privileged_ ) whites who enjoy ignoring white
trash are right -- poor, uneducated whites are unimportant. In fact, poor,
uneducated whites (especially the toothless ones) are less important and less
worthy of help than attractive, affluent, privileged people with more melanin.

------
dusing
I like the idea of the program, but specifically "Black girls"...

~~~
dinkumthinkum
Why not? This is one of the hardest hit economic demographics in the country.
I don't think targeting it to be specifically for them is bad; in fact I think
it is probably best. This demographics tends to get lost in the "need more
women in tech" crowd.

~~~
IanDrake
>Why not?

I agree - IF we can also agree that groups for "White Women", "Bald Hispanic
Men Under 40", etc... are also allowed.

Society needs to come to a consensus on this. Either there is a useful purpose
to segmenting private groups by age, gender, race, income, etc... or there
isn't. If there is a valid purpose, then we should all agree that all possible
combination of these factors are _equally_ valid.

The end result is that some poor white woman won't be able to attend because
of the color of her skin. I'm not sure what happens to her mulatto friend...I
guess it depends how black she looks.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
But this is nothing more than naive pedantry. There is a very large economic
demographic in this country that is apparently at a disadvantage. It's called
black girls/females. It's not bald hispanic athiests, or freckle-faced Irish
mormons or celebrity scientologists that have blond hair.

There is a real problem that can potentially be solved. You can play this game
if you want but there is quite clearly a qualitative difference between groups
like "black girls" and "bald hispanic men under 40." It's just ridiculous;
it's sophomoric to conflate the two.

As to your last point, so the perfect is the enemy of the good? The end goal
is to help real people, not sit in an ivory tower and debate about whether
"race even exists" or any of this nonsense. If calling the group "Black Girls
Can Code" allows the group to raise more money and help a very specific group
of girls, then that is good.

I think there is a good reason to think that if there was a group called
"Woman Can Code" that this particular group/demographic would not benefit as
much as it might as it is currently labeled (perhaps less participation,
perhaps drowned out by the others, etc). We can be pedantic and cry foul that
"Wah, there is not a White Women group or a Native American Transgender" group
but that doesn't end up helping anyone.

The world is more complex than that. "Bald Hispanic" is not a comparison to
"black girls" any serious person would make.

~~~
IanDrake
>There is a very large economic demographic in this country that is apparently
at a disadvantage. It's called black girls/females.

The only point in your reply that I understand is that you believe black women
are poor, therefore typical social rules regarding segregation don't apply.

>If calling the group "Black Girls Can Code" allows the group to raise more
money...

By this logic you are OK with a group called "White boys can code" _IF_ it
helped that group raise money? And why not, these could be boys from
Appalachia who have Mountain Dew and Snickers for dinner every night.

I think this is a conversation worth having. At some point we need to go
beyond convenient stereo types and get to the root of the problem.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
> The only point in your reply that I understand is that you believe black
> women are poor, therefore typical social rules regarding segregation don't
> apply.

I don't know why you're having trouble understanding this. This stuff is
pretty basic to understand. Your view is childish and pedantic. "Wah realizing
there are social mores in effect in the real world is just segregation."

> By this logic you are OK with a group called "White boys can code" IF it
> helped that group raise money? And why not, these could be boys from
> Appalachia who have Mountain Dew and Snickers for dinner every night.

No, I think there are qualitative social implications that we all recognize
when we stop making silly statements like "Why is there not White
Entertainment Television." But I do think having groups as you suggested is a
good idea but I think the naming of them should pay attention to social
realities.

~~~
IanDrake
>This stuff is pretty basic to understand.

Well then help me...

>Your view is childish and pedantic.

Ad hominem, not helpful.

>No, I think there are qualitative social implications that _we all recognize_

Emphasis mine. Like what? Black people are poor, so they get a pass? Is that
what you mean? Jesus, just say it.

>But I do think having groups as you suggested is a good idea but I think the
naming of them should pay attention to social realities.

What are your version of social realities? You say this shit with a wink and a
nod...You know blacks are poor, asians are good with numbers, jews are good
with money, whites are oppressors, and gays speak with a lisp. Are these the
"social realities" you speak of?

For the love of god, stop being so vague and just say what you mean. For
instance, the following is my exact feeling on this matter.

There are only two non-bigoted positions to have on this issue. One, it's OK
for people to segregate private groups by race, gender, etc... Or, two, its
not OK at all. Any position in between can only be justified by relying on
stereo types.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
That's not ad hominem, look it up. Your view is childish and pedantic,
exactly. You are more concerned with what you suppose to be technically
"segregation."

You said all the racist stuff not me. I didn't say that blacks are poor so the
get a pass. I said they are social realities that reasonable people, i.e. non-
childlike pedants, that understand. :)

There are people still alive that lived under Jim Crow. It is only very
recently that public bigotry against black people has been considered taboo.
People always trot out "slavery's been over for 150 years" bit but the
problems begot by slavery didn't go away over night. In fact, we have some
moron on this thread spouting off about how whites are intellectually superior
to blacks and the best response most on HN have to that is "Well, we should
really consider charitably the intellectual possibility the blacks are
'stupider' than whites."

You've offered nothing more than a false dichotomy in your last statement.
Black people have been inundated with the statements both direct and indirect
of inferiority. As well, whether you believe it or not, many places even in
our current situation are made to feel as the other. Being "black girls" is
part of the identify of many "girls that happen to be black (if I'm going to
play this pedantic game with you)." Therefore, what exactly with promoting a
notion that something fundamental to their identity is good, i.e. "Black Girls
Can Code?"

Maybe your jibber jabber would make sense if we were robots or Vulcans, but I
mean, that's just no reality. I'm sorry, I can't change that for you. The
world is more complicated than you think it is, welcome to Earth.

Do you really want me to explain all of the culture of the Western world to
you? I mean it may seem that I'm shirking from a responsibility by not
offering you one but it just seems ridiculous that you would need one.

~~~
IanDrake
>That's not ad hominem, look it up. Your view is childish and pedantic,

Oh, you said my _view_...If that's not ad hominem, then I should tell you that
I think your view is idiotic and short sighted...I was holding back on that
one before.

>but I mean, that's just no [sic] reality

Ok, I get it. The world is the way it is and we should not endeavor to change
it. We should treat some people as special and others as not special. Score
one more point for moral relativism.

With logic like that, I guess I should hope I'm not in a group that falls out
of favor.

>Do you really want me to explain all of the culture of the Western world to
you?

In all seriousness, I would be incredibly grateful to hear your version.

------
suprheavn
I volunteered for BGC a few months ago and I am a white woman. The problem
that this group is trying to solve can be summed up in the fact that there
were plenty of black girls learning how to code, but not plenty of black women
teaching them. I remember that we had two white women, one Asian woman, three
white men, and two black women volunteering total. So I guess it's great that
the internet community is so intent on over analyzing everything, but I'm
pretty sure all of us would like to be able to teach any child how to code.
However, Black Girls Code is clearly better at marketing themselves than all
the other groups that I've never heard of.

