

What It's Really Like To Work At Fab - Lightning
http://betashop.com/post/53834299838/what-its-really-like-to-work-fab

======
mathrawka
I'm not sure what Fab does really, but just looking over the article I came
across this gem:

 _The bit about holding out pay was a joke to get everyone’s attention. It
worked._

Did everyone really know that it was a joke? Later on he says...

 _It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have
time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused
and not getting distracted._

I don't know him, I don't work with him, but I have worked with people like
him and they were hated. They thought their jokes were funny. When people are
being threatened as a joke, they have a bunch of names they like to call Mr.
Funny, but the names aren't as nice as "Mr. Funny"

~~~
andrewvc
Yeah, it's amazing how oblivious the author of the article is. Some people
just don't get other people.

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toddmorey
As a boss, there are at least two things you never joke about: employees
getting paid and employees getting fired. It's not worth the risk that there
will be one person in the office your humor doesn't land with. And it's not
worth the risk that you may not make a payroll and have to do some real
layoffs all-too-soon thereafter.

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adaml_623
I don't know anything about Fab and didn't read the previous article but I
think it unlikely that the CEO of a company can write an accurate blog entry
titles 'What It's Really Like To Work At X'

To write such an article a lot of research and talking with staff would have
to happen and judging by the jokes in his emails and the tone of the article
he hasn't done that and probably should sooner rather than later.

------
brown9-2
This is a horrible attempt at trying to stifle whatever criticism the original
article made.

Repeating "it was a joke" is a childish defense and makes one wonder if
management is mature enough to understand that when you, as the boss, send an
email with a joke in it like "you might not get paid!", chances are some
employees might not get that it's a joke.

Some people tend to think that behavior can't be malicious if you don't intend
it to be malicious. This is false.

And this of course isn't even a defense, it's just repeating meaningless
aspirational buzzwords. So why even bother?

 _Claim. [Fab] applies a culture of meticulous control.

Fact. Our employees have an intense amount of freedom within the structure
we’ve created to make Fab great._

It's also very obvious you are just playing word games if Bloomberg says "11
executives left" and your response is "well we only had so many C-level
departures..."

------
clarky07
It sounds like it's really awful to work at Fab from his description. His
responses show an incredible lack of understanding as to what working for him
is really like.

> Claim. A message on Feb. 4 carried the subject header “Do you like getting
> paid?” Goldberg told employees they were required to have a photo uploaded
> to the “team” page on Fab.com “in order to be eligible for the next company
> pay period. No exceptions.”

Fact. We pride ourselves on humor and transparency at Fab. As part of our
major relaunch relaunch of our employee pages on Feb 5 we required every
employee to be listed publicly. The bit about holding out pay was a joke to
get everyone’s attention. It worked.

Reality - This is not a joke, and it is not even remotely funny. He says "It
worked." If it was a joke, there wouldn't be any "it worked."

>Claim. An e-mail on Oct. 11 from Shellhammer, who serves as chief design
officer, forbids people from modeling Fab’s products. Employees had been
inserting themselves into shots of the company’s wares posted on its website.
“If you have time to model, you have time to get fired,” Shellhammer wrote.

Fact. It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have
time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused
and not getting distracted.

Reality - This is also not a joke. A boss can't joke about firing his
employees. It just isn't possible. Anyone who doesn't realize this isn't
somebody most people will have any desire to work for.

Edit: Apparently he also threatened to put a bullet in a former employee's
head for potentially leaking something. Clearly this guy has huge issues, and
I suspect that the work environment at Fab is incredibly toxic. He isn't doing
himself any favors with this post - [http://gawker.com/266979/a-bullet-in-
your-head](http://gawker.com/266979/a-bullet-in-your-head)

------
peteforde
What many leaders don't understand is that their words carry the weight of an
anvil, even if you're "friends" or a have a David Brent "jokey" office
persona.

It's nearly impossible for an employee to tell if a superior is serious or
joking, especially if they've been inconsistent in the past. It's anxiety
inducing for employees to wonder if they are dealing with "friend boss" or
"will I get passed over for a promotion boss" when someone drops by their
cubical for some brainstorming.

Even brainstorming can be ambiguously "brainstorming" or "I actually want to
see your reaction so I know if I can trust you".

I know all of this because I have made all of these mistakes in the past.

------
dclowd9901
They made a "joke" in written form "threatening" to not pay people if they
didn't submit a picture to the company profile? Smacks of something a thud
headed manager like Michael Scott would do.

------
rwhitman
I did not know about this Bloomberg article, but now I do. They could have
just let it go, but now it gets to the HN frontpage. What a dumb move

I know folks who work at Fab in non-tech roles and it is indeed a demanding
environment with long hours and high turnover. But this is fairly typical of
NYC ecommerce startups though...

~~~
betashop
What if it's not a dumb move? Meaning, what if it's a good thing to be honest
with people that working at a startup is hard, that it's emotional, that it's
human, that people make mistakes? I think opening up a bit about our culture
-- which is hard driving, passionate, etc. isn't a dance in the park and can
break some dishes along the way? That's pretty true of all startups.

~~~
dclowd9901
Are you him? God, you're a fucking moron. Shut the hell up. Your mouth is
doing more harm than good. Oh, and quit being an asshole.

"What if it's not a dumb move?" It is, objectively, a dumb move. Clearly. Take
a hint. We "Y-Hackers" don't play favorites, and as is clearly evident by the
"eating" you're seeing, we actually know how to be hard working, supportive,
and breed a culture that isn't rife with subversive fear and subtle
intimidation. You're wrong. Admit it. Fix it.

------
gyardley
I had a job interview with Fab's CEO once. He impressed the hell out of me -
charismatic, strong vision, ambitious - but it was blatantly obvious to both
of us that I wasn't a good cultural fit for the company, and that was as far
as it went.

Just based on that one interview, I doubt too many people get through Fab's
entire hiring process who aren't already a cultural match. I certainly
couldn't work there, but some of the things that bother me (mandatory
coatracks and clean desks?) they probably consider benefits.

------
lazyBilly
I... don't know if that blog response is going to achieve the goal it was
intended to. At the very least, the CEO might spend some more time considering
how being the boss affects what is or is not a funny 'joke'.

~~~
monkeynotes
Indeed. Using "do this or you're fired" to get an employee's attention is
disrespectful and manipulative, it's not funny - unless you are Michael Scott.

There have to be more creative ways to assert an important company initiative.
Surely there is a more 'Fab' way.

~~~
vinceguidry
> Using "do this or you're fired" to get an employee's attention is
> disrespectful and manipulative, it's not funny - unless you are Michael
> Scott.

Or Tony Soprano.

------
Macsenour
Please don't ever joke about firing people.

Would you say: "I have a gun in my desk, I'll shoot you if you don't..."? I
hope you wouldn't.

~~~
rwg
It seems he might've said a variant of exactly that...

[http://web.archive.org/web/20080613100445/http://www.cheezhe...](http://web.archive.org/web/20080613100445/http://www.cheezhead.com/2007/04/05/jobster-
silence/)

~~~
kirubakaran
For those of you (like me) who didn't want to read the whole thing. (I got the
'bullet' keyword from a different link that Uperte posted elsewhere and
searched for it in the link that the parent posted)

"Goldberg did apparently threaten a female employee, saying he’d put a bullet
in her head if he found out she had been part of or leaked a rumor about an
executive leaving the company. This employee breaks down crying afterward and
shortly thereafter submits her resignation. She is no longer with Jobster.
After some prodding, Goldberg apologizes in a company-wide manner, emphasizing
that he wouldn’t really put a bullet through someone’s head."

------
betashop
Hi. Jason Goldberg, CEO of Fab here. @betashop. I'm happy to answer any
questions you have.

I must say that given my involvement in the Y-Hacker community it saddens me a
bit to see you eat one of your own, but that's life I guess.

Is it smart to joke about people getting paid and getting fired? Of course
not. Yes, we know that getting fired isn’t the sort of thing to normally joke
about. But before haters hate on us, come visit Fab’s offices. We have this
thing at Fab called “do your one thing” - the notion that everyone should
focus on doing the one thing they are the best at above all other things and
that the accumulation of everyone’s one things creates a great organization.
No one’s one thing at Fab is to be a professional model.

~~~
zachlatta
Hi Jason. It's nice to see that you've taken the time to comment on this
submission and answer any questions we have for you.

You acknowledge that it's inappropriate to joke about payment and firing
employees, but you continue to do it. I don't see using the Michael Scott-
esque excuse of "come visit our offices" as appropriate. Here's my question
for you. Do you feel, honestly and completely, that you have not created a
toxic work environment in the slightest with your behavior? How are Fab's
offices' different than any other startup's?

------
dimva
I was wondering how he could hire and keep engineers in this market with such
a terrible attitude towards employees, but then I looked at the jobs page and
saw that all engineering seems to be in India.

And it looks like it works for them! Their product is very nice, which used to
be very hard if not impossible to achieve with engineering outsourced to
India.

As an American software engineer, this is a bit unsettling.

------
philthesong
Is it funny when CEO makes a joke on getting paid or not?

~~~
Uperte
It never is.

~~~
vinceguidry
The whole thing reminds me of some mob boss intimidating someone. He makes a
"joke" about, oh, breaking their arms, sits there with a straight face for a
few seconds. Then he starts laughing, and after a second the other guy laughs
too, nervously. Yeah, that joke was hilarious.

~~~
Macsenour
It would be funny if he said HE wouldn't be paid... or HE would be fired...

------
ryeon
_The bit about holding out pay was a joke to get everyone’s attention. It
worked._

 _It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have
time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused
and not getting distracted._

Saying 'it was a joke' is just a lame-ass excuse for being an insensitive
douche bag. Sorry but not sorry.

------
dmazin
In this blog post the author corroborates most of the points made by
Bloomberg. That is not a takedown.

------
mscarborough
> It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have
> time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused
> and not getting distracted.

The irony is strong here, that OP wrote a blog post to defend all their jokes
that are meant to keep employees from getting distracted.

The thing about jokes is, they should have an element of truth to them that
the audience will pick up on. If you're in a position of power over someone,
be honest and straightforward, instead of trying to be clever with your
amateur stand-up comedy career.

You still can have a fun work culture without acting like a drunk frat boy.

------
Uperte
This guy has some weird sense of humor: [http://gawker.com/266979/a-bullet-in-
your-head](http://gawker.com/266979/a-bullet-in-your-head)

------
betashop
What it's really like to work at any fast growing startup.
[http://betashop.com/post/53908788656/what-its-really-like-
to...](http://betashop.com/post/53908788656/what-its-really-like-to-work-at-
any-fast-growing)

------
tomjohnson3
Translation: joke -> threat.

Sounds like bullying to me. No place for that. No exceptions.

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na85
Hey cool, a company that I would never, ever, ever want to work for.

