

Valve boss says living room Steam PCs coming with Linux support - gregpurtell
http://www.shacknews.com/article/76984/valve-boss-says-living-room-steam-pcs-linux-support

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breckinloggins
What I think would help is some set of standards that would let people create
"PC Consoles". On the one hand, these are "no apology" consoles that
absolutely appeal to the hardcore gamer that would otherwise use a PC. On the
other hand, you ought to be able to pick one up at Target and not need to be a
hardcore system builder to use it.

So I'm thinking someone starts a "PC Console Consortium" that does the
following:

\- Come up with a good name for the specs (similar to the old 3DO idea or the
"THX" certification. It needs to have a marketable name.)

\- Establish the proper bylaws and rules for the standardization process,
including overall version levels, RFC-type specifications, etc.

\- Come up with specs and reference designs / hardware for:

* Form factor of mother board

* Minimum number and preferred placement of ports, indicators, controls, and drive bays (if any)

* Minimum feature set (e.g. WiFi, DirectX 10, etc.)

* Standard OS image details and reference image (hopefully Linux)

* Living Room interface (Steam Big Picture mode should conform by fiat, we need those games)

* Reference controller designs and interface (should also allow use of XBox and PS3 controllers)

* etc

The way I see it, it should be possible to have the convenience of a console
with the upgradability of a PC.

Lastly - and it's so important I put this separately - we need a way to take
the "fiddle factor" out of PC games. Gamers shouldn't have to tweak anything
when running on a spec-compliant system. They can if they want to, but it
should be totally unnecessary for 95% of gamers.

To do this, I propose we standardize on some way to exactly report the system
configuration. I'm thinking something like the Windows 7 scoring system. The
idea is that the online stores will know ahead of time whether a game could
even be played on your system. Also, when games run, they should automatically
configure themselves with the optimum settings and resolution for your system
(and TV or other display device).

Put simply, the "big picture vision" here is pretty simple: it's a box that
looks and acts a lot like the XBox 360. The interface is just as simple. There
are just as many features. The games run and play without headache.
Controllers are just as nice (no more $10 "PC gamepads"). The entire
experience looks like a console (no "seeing Linux or Windows boot first").
It's branded like a console. It's purchased like a console.

BUT...

It's buildable, upgradable (optionally depending on manufacturer), and
"tinkerable" just like a PC. You do so at your own risk, of course, but the
standard should be designed with this in mind.

EDIT:

Here's an idea that would be far in the future but would be cool. "GCPC" specs
could include a new type of GPU interface. It would still be standard PCIe
with power, but it would NOT include interface headers. Instead, standard
video ports would be included in the motherboard standard (HDMI + Thunderbolt
perhaps). If the chipset includes integrated graphics, it would use it.
However, if a user plugs in one of these "headless GPUs", video signal would
be directly routed to it. This would give the back of the console a cleaner,
more standardized look while still allowing upgradability.

The back of the console should LOOK like the back of a console, NOT the back
of a standard PC.

Another idea is to take a page from the upcoming TV apps playbook and
standardize some kind of "feature card". This card would include processor,
ram, and GPU in a known configuration and pinout. That way you can upgrade a
lot of the "guts" with a simple card swap. I don't know if I'm too fond of
this idea, but it's a possibility.

~~~
bitsoda
None of these are bad ideas per se, but this all seems overly ambitious for
Valve's first foray into the console business. If anything, what they need is
focus. And to me, that focus translates into building one Steam Box console
with a single configuration that will play the majority of Steam games for the
next four years. Making an upgradable console will lead to a design that is
clunky. If you thought the PS3 and original XBox were large, an upgradable
Steam Box console would end up looking like a PC midtower. Sure, you could
always upgrade your HD in the current generation of consoles, but you couldn't
slip in a new graphics card or solder on a new CPU.

I think Valve should embrace these constraints and deliver what (I think) most
gamers would want: the ability to play their ever-increasing Steam Catalog on
their televisions with a controller that doesn't suck, in a form factor that
will blend in with my entertainment unit furniture, and with a 4-5 year window
where most Steam games will play.

~~~
breckinloggins
To be clear, I'm suggesting that someone other than Valve do this. Perhaps an
independent organization. Valve could be a member.

~~~
jiggy2011
I don't see Valve wanting to hand over their big profit maker to some
independant standards body.

~~~
Profess
The console is just the ante into the game, same as Xbox,PlayStation,Nintendo.
Having a standard would allow hardware manufacturers as well as game devs to
come into sync.

Establish a clear casual,mid level, hardcore specs every couple years and the
software will be able to anticipate what it will be running on when it's
released. Now GPU,CPU and SoC manufacturers will be confident that if they
release hardware that conforms to each spec they certify their hardware will
run at a given level. Now ARM licensees will be able to make sure the right
components are integrated and they progress in the direction the consumers
want/need.

Valve is more of a publisher than a hardware manufacturer anyway, they will
likely be much happier just sitting back and offering OS images than make a
gripe about who gets to make the physical box.

I personally would be excited about a variety of boxes. The companies that are
currently on the cusp of ARM components that already have the grunt to play
casual to mid level gaming and without need for a battery/display/fancy case
they can do it for much cheaper. Go to your local big box store and pick up a
mid level gaming system with WIFI/HTPC capabilities plus abilities to connect
to a wide selection of cloud services and your good to go.

If we could get Valve to make a mechanism that would allow the resale/trading
of games I honestly believe the market would soar. If there was a Valve
sponsored "swap meet area" it would allow for people to become much more
involved and if any money was actually made it would likely be dumped right
back at the Seam Store. I guess that is a discussion for another day but ya a
standard would not be a bad thing.

~~~
zanny
Hardware makers don't like sync or standards. They like platform lock in and
exclusivity to motivate buyers into buying their product over a competitors,
or buying both. Honestly, the steam box will end up being an x86 processor of
some description with some ddr3 memory and a discrete gpu of some kind,
designed to run games well at 1080p, and they will probably use some kind of
boot-to-steam system (I mean steam has its own web browser and everything
already!) where they replace the usual DE with just big picture Steam.

------
diminish
Valve may repeat a parallel for 'Android' in 'Gaming'. Make a Linux-based OS
layer, with standardized interface to TV, WIFI, gaming controllers and GPU.
Produce 'Nexus' lines but also allow others to produce. Make sure you have a
market called Steam Play Store but also allow others to implement their own
stores.

~~~
mtgx
Google had the opportunity to try that ever since they launched Google TV 2
years ago. Make Android/Google TV a "console platform", and make $100-$150
devices kind of like OUYA, but allow many manufacturers to build them, and
crowd the market with them.

But they totally blew it on that one, because now it's probably too late to
start that, especially considering how little Google cares about making
Android a strong gaming platform (hint: they probably wouldn't even try to get
game developers to write games for this "platform". They would just wait and
see).

But yeah, if Valve does that, it would be great for Linux gaming, and OpenGL
gaming in general.

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JulianK
While I understand the desire to have an upgradable PC, as a developer the
single greatest benefit of a console is a fixed target. If it runs on this
machine, then it runs on all the machines.

From a user's perspective this means I can easily tell if something will run
or not. No worrying about whether I have enough cores, enough pixel shader
units or simply enough memory. It Just Works. That's the console promise.

I can't overstate how important this is for both the developer and the
consumer. Not all developers can afford to have QA departments to test on
every configuration out there and, believe me, there are a lot of
OS/GPU/driver/memory configurations floating about.

I think the Apple/Nexus model that says "this is the new device this year" is
a workable tradeoff. Then you can say: Only SteamBox 2013 and up are
supported. We no longer support the 2012/older models.

However, allowing the user to upgrade their machine only helps the technically
proficient and hurts the small developer and less technically inclined users
that a console is usually targeted at.

~~~
nemo1618
An upgradable machine would allow proficient users to simply improve their
current system rather than buying "this year's new device." It would be nice
to have both options available. You still don't have to support older
hardware, and savvy users don't have to pay extra for a whole new system.

Meanwhile, if you can't afford either upgrade, it should still be possible to
play most games, albeit at a reduced framerate. The same could never be said
for a traditional console.

~~~
Corrado
An upgradable machine also allows a "power" user to upgrade their machine way
beyond the original specs in order to give them an unfair advantage in online
gaming. I picture someone with a monster 24 CPU/256GB RAM box playing TF2 at
200fps pummeling me ever harder than they do today. :(

However, I like the idea of a Valve console. They've done so much right in the
world of gaming that I'd like to see how else they can shake it up. :)

------
w1ntermute
This is going to have a very interesting effect on the console market if it
becomes reality. For one, it'll destroy the used games market. But also, it
will make the impulse purchase of games much easier, and it'll drastically
reduce the aging process for games. No longer will a game's sales be tied to
shelf space. The focus on sales right after a game has been released will
decrease, which I think is a good thing in the long run.

I think that with the shift of the Wii and Wii U towards the casual gaming
market, there's definitely space for a third competitor in the "serious"
gaming market. It'll be interesting to see how this actually manifests itself.

~~~
thefreeman
Steam as a platform has done amazing things for gaming and independent
developers. ~70% of the revenue from steam games goes to the developers. This
was absolutely unheard of in the past.

edit: I was totally wrong about trading used games. My bad.

~~~
cduser
> ~70% of the revenue from steam games goes to the developers

So, when Black Ops II made a billion dollars
([http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/12/05/news-black-
ops-2-grosse...](http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/12/05/news-black-
ops-2-grosses-one-billion-dollars)), steam made ~430 million? That's huge!

~~~
ANTSANTS
IIRC, Valve negotiates a different cut with each developer, and requires them
to keep their terms secret. I would not be surprised if Activision ended with
more favorable terms than your average indie studio.

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pixie_
Linux as a gaming platform, especially for Valve is genius. There of tons of
PC games that with a bit of porting (and adding controller support) can be re-
released and re-sold to the console gamers. And as we all know console gamers
spend a lot more $$$ than PC gamers. And Valve is going to be in the middle of
it all, genius.

~~~
eropple
_There of tons of PC games that with a bit of porting (and adding controller
support) can be re-released and re-sold to the console gamers._

This isn't really true, either on the porting end or the sell-to-console-
gamers end. Porting most PC games to Linux is a nontrivial undertaking
(because, yeah, most big developers still use Direct3D and rewrite for the PS3
using PSGL--the PS3 gets half-assed and it usually shows).

Then you have to take into account the nearly-guaranteed hardware problem: for
it to be competitive with the next generation of _consoles_ it's going to end
up specced around or worse than the XBox Next or the PS4 (and we already know
what those look like.

------
mburshteyn
I've been dying for something like this. Since switching to Apple laptops, I
can do nothing but listen wistfully as my friends talk about how much they
love Steam. The screenshots of Skyrim I see in online reviews don't look
anything like the game I play on my Xbox360.

The problem is, I can't imagine playing video games on any screen but a TV or
in any setting but the couch. I could probably build a PC box and hook it up
to the TV on my own, but I'd much rather just buy something ready to go out of
the box. A console with current hardware and a PC-like gaming experience is
just what the doctor ordered!

~~~
jiggy2011
Can't you dual boot Windows on your mac, plug a 360 controller in via USB and
dvi/hdmi out to the TV?

~~~
mburshteyn
So many cords and things to install. I've become really lazy when it comes to
games. Part of me just wants to play a game without putting in work to do so.

~~~
jiggy2011
Well, plug in one cord and use a wireless controller.

------
marshray
It will be interesting to see what they do about cheating in the highly
competitive online multiplayer games. This is one of those rare situations
(perhaps the only one) where open systems tends to make the end user
experience worse.

~~~
freehunter
Valve already has VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) that works reasonably well.

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nivloc
Previous discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4895372>

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rektide
Super interested to see whether they attempt to support DirectX games or no!

~~~
ergo14
Simply no - there is no option to do that unless they use windows.

~~~
AntiRush
Wine has a pretty good DirectX to OpenGL translation layer. It could be
leveraged to provide this. Many games on Steam run quite well on top of Wine,
and some of the OSX games available on Steam already use it.

~~~
ergo14
As someone who ran games under wine for years - yeah some do work well - some
don't or with heavy speed penalty.

Ideally i would see openGL games on steam console - which shouldnt really be a
tough problem since wii/ps3 do something pretty close to this.

It's interesting that you say some mac games use wine under steam - I wasn't
aware of that.

------
toksaitov
I hope this will get another great push for OpenGL as it was with mobile and
web.

------
rymith
I get the new iMac this week, and I'm taking my current windows machine and
turning it into a homebrew Steambox tomorrow. I'm using an Ikea dresser thing
[http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/90179927/#/601799...](http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/90179927/#/60179919)
as the box (with the top drawer for the console games), though I'm a little
concerned with the airflow... The current case is probably overkill with the 6
fans, but I can only cut out two holes in the drawer before I'm worried about
loosing structural integrity, it's particle board after all. Add the power
supply and drive mounts (I want both windows 7 and Linux), and there isn't any
more space. Oh well, I guess I'll find out soon enough. As much as I love the
hacking, it would be nice to have something prebuilt so I'm not completely
screwed if I turn this into a smokebox instead of a steambox.

~~~
Profess
A cool idea might be putting a push/pull fan setup for the drawers themselves.
Cut 4x12cm holes in the top 2 on either sides, get grills and mount them
underneath. You might have to cut out the drawer it's self to open and close
but the grills will add a cool look and maybe even mount the fan control knobs
somewhere so you can make adjustments and even turn on/off LEDs mounted on the
fan it's self. Put the system in the drawer without a case of any kind,
particle board doesn't conduct but you could just get a non conductive mat to
put under it.

Good luck!

