
Ask HN: Are there any online lawyer services? - throwaway4353
Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I will not go into details, but I am personally facing some legal charges in Santa Clara county. I am not staying in the U.S. but I need to find a lawyer to represent me there. Do you have any lawyer firm you could recommend?<p>Extra points if they provide an &quot;online&quot; service where the case can be discussed electronically, as phone calls are a hassle due to the time zone differences. And preferably be able to pay using regular credit card, I guess hourly for initial consultation.
======
jawns
Typically "charges" means that it's a criminal offense, and if so, you
absolutely should not go with an online service. Get the best lawyer you can
afford, and deal with the inconvenience of phone calls. Especially if you're
facing jail time, do you really want to run the risk of being inadequately
represented?

If it's a civil suit, you should still should weigh whether the inconvenience
of phone calls is worth risking a judgment against you.

As for credit cards, some (perhaps most) attorneys accept credit cards, and my
assumption is that nearly every online service will accept them.

Update: You commented elsewhere that it's a traffic offense. Assuming that
you're not facing jail time, this _might_ be a case where you can do most of
your communication with a lawyer by email and still feel reasonably assured
that you're being adequately represented. But you may still need to make an
initial phone call. Or rather, being willing to make an initial phone call
will give you more (and potentially better) options.

~~~
throwaway4353
Thanks for the extensive reply and recommendations! Yea, I guess I was hoping
I could skip the step of calling a bunch of lawyer firms to find someone good.

I'm probably not facing jail time, but probably weekend work program for 6
days or so. I'm hoping to find a lawyer to do as much as possible in place in
U.S. so I can just travel there and pay any fines and do my sentence.

~~~
charlesdm
If you're living abroad with no intention of returning to the US, it's highly
unlikely you're going to get weekend work. A fine perhaps, sure.

~~~
cheez
Can confirm. Accidentally broke the law while visiting, no conviction.

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exhaze
Not sure if it's civil or criminal, but if it's criminal, I'd recommend:

[https://www.yelp.com/biz/dmitry-stadlin-attorney-at-law-
san-...](https://www.yelp.com/biz/dmitry-stadlin-attorney-at-law-san-jose)

He hasn't personally represented me (thankfully the worst crime I've committed
is speeding), but he's a close friend and a great defense attorney.

~~~
throwaway4353
Thanks a lot! Yes I should've been a little more specific, it is
criminal/traffic.

~~~
exhaze
OK - at this point, for traffic cases he only does DUIs. If that's your
situation, reach out to him.

------
caseguide
Hey, I am the CEO of [http://CaseGuide.org](http://CaseGuide.org) which uses
court data to find the previous outcomes of cases and best attorneys. We don't
accept any money from attorneys, only show their factual performance on cases.
Unfortunately we only operate in Florida, USA for now but here some advice for
finding a criminal traffic lawyer based on looking at hundreds of attorney
records.

As far as I know there is not another service like ours who will show you
actual outcomes on how attorneys perform. I'm also not aware of an attorney
service per se but most attorneys use email and most work long hours. Many
accept credit cards.

If I was going to find an attorney where I don't know anyone I would look at
it in this order:

1)Start with superlawyers and get all the names for the following searches:
Driving Under The Influence (DUI) in CityName.

2) Look up each of those attorneys on AVVO and pick one based on reviews or
whatever you want. Avvo rating is stupid.

Generally, the top rated DUI people will also do other criminal traffic stuff.

The problem with this is Avvo and Superlawyers are both funded by attorneys.
In our main area, for example, the best 3 DUI attorneys by case outcomes show
up like this on SuperLawyers: #1 isnt on the list at all, #2 is about halfway
down the list of 27 people, has no prominence on the site despite the fact
that DUI case law in that state was basically all this one guy, and #3 is
below #2 toward the bottom.

#2 doesn't have an Avvo rating at all.

That said, many of the attorneys on there are still "pretty good" and that's
likely all you need, even if you can't get the best ones.

------
PascLeRasc
To start, you can ask on reddit.com/r/legaladvice. They're very helpful and
can let you know what to expect. It's not a substitute for an attorney but
it's a good way to get more informed.

~~~
Khol
Is posting on a public forum to request legal advice from people with no
protection whatsoever really considered a good idea?

I suspect that the fact there's a twitter account[1] collecting the weird and
wonderful posts from there doesn't weigh in it's favour.

[1] [https://twitter.com/legaladvice_txt](https://twitter.com/legaladvice_txt)

~~~
maxxxxx
If you have a little discernment you can probably filter out bad advice.
Personally I have often gotten better advice about legal or health issues from
online forums than I have received from professionals like lawyers and
doctors. At a minimum these responses are a cheap way to learn about things
you should be looking into so you are better prepared for talking to a
professional person.

~~~
Khol
If you talk to _your_ lawyer about your issue the lawyer can't go and tell
anyone else, nor can that discussion be raised as part of a legal process
against you. Not the case if you post it to a public forum.

------
gamblor956
If you have a criminal case, you need to talk to a local lawyer, in person. An
online lawyer will simply not suffice.

If you need help finding a lawyer, contact your local bar association and they
can refer you. You can also contact your local criminal defense bar
association, though not all of them have websites.

EDIT: Just realized that by "not staying in the US" you actually meant you
were physically not in the US anymore. This doesn't change my recommendation
to ask the Santa Clara Bar Association for a referral to a local Santa Clara
criminal defense or traffic/DUI lawyer. You'll just be corresponding with your
lawyer mostly by phone/email.

------
gnu8
Announcing your plan to leave the country is going to get you arrested and
held without bail. Hire a real world criminal defense attorney now and hope
the court will let you trade your passport for an ankle monitor.

~~~
charlesdm
Maybe he's not resident in the US (nor a US citizen) and just returned home?

~~~
gnu8
If he’s a foreign national who never wants to visit the US again for any
reason, and can expect his country not to extradite him for whatever the
charge is, then it is a reasonable strategy.

~~~
throwaway4353
Yes I do not expect to be extradited, and I am not in U.S. anymore (since
several years). However, being "wanted" in the U.S. can have negative impact
on job applications to American (and some non-American) companies even in
other countries, and of course - travelling to the U.S. for vacation trips is
difficult.

~~~
gnu8
I understand now. Where you wrote “I am not staying in the U.S.” I took that
to mean that you were leaving the US, but you meant that you are currently not
living in the US. I think your plan is exactly right, find good representation
before traveling to the US. It would be best to deal with this problem in a
planned out way rather than simply arriving in the country and being arrested
somewhere.

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nroach
I'm working on a startup that does this. Right now, we are in the attorney
network recruitment stage. But if you contact me, I may be able to mechanical
turk a connection for you. Also, I would love to just visit with you about
your needs from the client perspective to validate our demand thesis. I'm an
attorney so we could do the customer interview under privilege, or if you
don't share case details we can do it with the tech team too.

nathan@mission-legal.com

~~~
jason_slack
Hi Nathan,

Actually, I had been working off and on creating a platform that allows
lawyers to file, respond to court documents, etc. The goal was to eliminate
the need to show up to court and have opposing council ask for a continuance
because they only received the documents "the day before" and hadn't had time
to review them. There were other aspects to it. I haven't worked on it in
years, but perhaps we could chat sometime if this sounds interesting to you.

~~~
gamblor956
If your platform is as described, it has no chance of succeeding. If attorneys
have only received the documents the day before a court appearance, changing
that to online delivery doesn't address the fundamental problem that the
opposing counsel hasn't had sufficient time to review the document dump.

Judges really, really hate it when lawyers do that to opposing counsel, to the
point where it is no longer uncommon for them to sanction lawyers for data
dumping at the last minute in addition to granting a continuance so that the
other side can properly review and respond.

~~~
jason_slack
And so that is the point. If documents are not exchanged fairly a continuance
can be issued without ever getting to court first and wasting the systems
time.

If not saying the idea was perfect. I talked to 30 lawyers in different parts
of the world to help hash out the idea. Mixed thoughts from them. I think I
still have all the notes.

My point here was to Share an idea because I’m not doing this project anymore
(way back early 2007) and maybe someone else can execute better etc

~~~
gamblor956
_And so that is the point. If documents are not exchanged fairly a continuance
can be issued without ever getting to court first and wasting the systems
time._

Right, and they can already do that without going to court, by filing (or for
more modern courts, emailing) a request for continuance to the judge's clerk.
This has been a thing for literally decades, which is probably why you got
mixed thoughts from the lawyers you talked to.

There are plenty of low-hanging fruit in the legal tech market to go after.
This isn't one of them.

~~~
jason_slack
Right, but this happens automatically based upon time.

The mixed reactions were

1\. There isn’t a chance to argue with the judge in an automated system. Maybe
extenuating circumstances need to be talked about and this step is cut out by
a computer deciding to notify the judge that a continuance should be given due
to time.

2\. It’s another system to be paid attention to when lawyers desks usually
have cases on paper, in folders, in a briefcase. It’s hard to break tradition.

~~~
gamblor956
Ah so the fundamental misunderstanding is that you did not understand how the
process works and so you proposed a platform that didn't work with existing
processes, and so was rejected by essentially everyone you talked to.

Continuances are discretionary. Judges are already quite good about handling
extenuating circumstances on their own. AIs can barely understand simple human
speech; they are nowhere close to notifying judges about whether continuances
are appropriate.

And I'm not sure why you keep pushing this--the problem you've addressed is
not a major problem in our court system (or even a minor problem) and the
solution isn't worth more investment of time/effort than as an extremely minor
feature in a court docketing/filing system.

~~~
jason_slack
As I clearly stated. I shelved that project. My original post was to offer the
work I had done to someone else versus it sitting on a shelf :-).

As a criminal lawyer, you reply like a lawyer. I’ve lost interest in your
retorts so I’ll move on.

------
gnicholas
Without knowing more details of the charged offenses, it’s impossible to
recommend an appropriate firm. They are often very specialized, and you want
to find someone who has relevant experience/success with the specific type of
charge (and venue — presumably Santa Clara County).

As for handling things electronically, any firm will do this. And they will
let you pay by credit card. The initial consult should be free.

Source: I’m a former corporate lawyer.

------
shauntrennery
The Recode Decode podcast recently featured an online divorce service:
[https://www.recode.net/podcasts/2019/1/26/18198055/laura-
was...](https://www.recode.net/podcasts/2019/1/26/18198055/laura-wasser-its-
over-easy-turbotax-for-divorce-kara-swisher-recode-decode-podcast)

------
nkw
Contact a member of this organization:
[https://www.nacdl.org/](https://www.nacdl.org/) who practices in the area
(geographic and subject) of your pending charges. Almost all have websites
that will accept messages and most will communicate by email and take credit
cards. Find one you are comfortable with.

However there is one wrinkle - be aware that lawyers are inundated with emails
from overseas/out-of-the-country potential "clients" looking to hire them that
are, in fact, fake check/wire transfer scams, so any mention of being outside
the country and wanting to hire the lawyer will most likely lead to your
emails being ignored/spam canned. You will need to be ready to provide some
specific information that can be verified such as the case number/pending
court, and possibly be willing to start off with a telephone call.

------
netsharc
I would guess you would need to e-mail some law firms and ask if they would be
willing to do things by e-mail or some other form of asynchronous text
communication. I wonder if common law firms know what GPG is. And I wonder
what online platform is good for such communication, where privacy is very
important...

~~~
Digory
All large law firms have general knowledge about it. There's an active market
targeting lawyers with "secure communication solutions."

But clients hate secure messaging, unless they're in a job that pays them to
care about security. I've had clients voluntarily facebook, SMS, or email.
I've had one client in about twenty years send me an encrypted email.

------
anderber
Perhaps something like LegalZoom:
[https://www.legalzoom.com/](https://www.legalzoom.com/)

~~~
throwaway4353
Thanks, will check it out.

------
eddywebs
[https://www.lawtrades.com/](https://www.lawtrades.com/)

------
selljamhere
I’ve used UpCounsel for business documents and filings. They’re a pay-as-you-
go service, and might have what you’re looking for.

[https://www.upcounsel.com](https://www.upcounsel.com)

------
spking
[https://www.justanswer.com/law/](https://www.justanswer.com/law/)

Edit: Not a law firm but can get your questions answered and point you in the
right direction.

~~~
throwaway4353
Thank you! I hadn't come across this site before, I'll give it a shot!

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swarnie_
I've come across a number of companies in the UK offering a no-hassle mostly
online divorce services

Might be because no contest divorces are pretty simple and its really just a
paperwork management exercise.

~~~
arethuza
I don't know about the US, but I suspect purely online legal services in the
UK might be tricky due to anti-money laundering requirements?

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projektfu
My (civil) attorneys conduct most business over e-mail once the initial
contact is made in real time. I imagine you can do the same with a criminal
attorney.

------
runningman123
[https://www.basiccounsel.com](https://www.basiccounsel.com)

------
bberenberg
[https://www.priorilegal.com](https://www.priorilegal.com)

~~~
throwaway4353
Priori seems to be focusing on corporate customers, but I'm mainly looking for
personal. Thanks anyway, it might come in handy in the future.

------
ethbro
My experience with using online legal services (including some recommended
here) for simple matters was that you're hiring the bottom of the barrel /
oversubscribed intern time.

Being a lawyer seems kind of like being a doctor -- you can easily solicit
more work than you can do, if you're good at your job.

Consequently, if you're good, why would you accept internet clients? And all
the problems they entail. Quantity is not a problem you have.

It's annoying, but follow the adage. Pick up a phone and ask family / friends
/ local lawyers / etc who they would recommend. Any lawyer should be able to
handle communication over the internet for most of the casework.

~~~
throwaway4353
Makes sense. Unfortunately I don't have family nor close friends in the U.S.
Having been on HN for 8-9 years I figured it's the closest friends I have in
U.S. :)

I rather not consult local lawyers (in my current country) unfortunately, as I
am not sure of the extent of professional secrecy provided.

~~~
ethbro
I meant local as in the local jurisdiction you'll be tried in.

For example, most state bars have a referral service that will connect you
with a lawyer. Similarly, there are other local professional orgs that will
offer referrals.

E.g. [http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Need-Legal-Help/Lawyer-
Refer...](http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Need-Legal-Help/Lawyer-Referral-
Service)

Some quick intro screening / get to know you conversation should probably be
sufficient for finding someone quality who can help you.

