

Ask HN: I'm a generalist. Not a specialist. Getting a non-entry level job. - skennedy

I have never acquired a super awesome ninja skill. Straight out of college (6 years ago) I landed a consulting job for Fortune 100 companies (later hired by competitor). Solved ambiguous problems in the Learning Management Systems (LMS) space working on a ton of technologies and the projects rarely lasted longer than 3-6 months. Learn it, program it, and move on. I worked with offshore developers, managed onsite resources, appeased project/product managers, turned vendor integrations into sexy solutions, and pushed out PowerPoint updates for CTO's.<p>It was fun...for a while. Learned a TON. And made a lot of money. But I left the job to try my hand at a startup. It failed. C'est la vie. But learned twice as much in half the time. Best experience so far but I am out of money.<p>Now it's time to apply for jobs. Need financial stability for a while and the "corporate" jobs want interviews but pass when I am not "the guy" on technology XYZ.<p>Trying my best to escape the world of LMS's -- where I have a good reputation -- but cannot seem to seal the deal on a job that is not entry level. Any suggestions?
======
creamyhorror
I'd like to ask about the traditional technology consulting industry. Is it
worth venturing into as a relatively inexperienced developer who wouldn't mind
being a product manager?

There's a clear divide between the traditional IT services provider and the
tech startup. Often (especially in secondary hubs like my country) the IT
services players view developers as commodity labour to be hired as grunts or
simply outsourced, while tech startups are often developer-centric and offer a
much better experience and paycheck. What seems to matter is the orientation
of the top management of the company; the traditional firms are often not run
by software engineers or compsci people, but instead by general business
folks.

Has any recent startup managed to become a significant player in tech
consulting while retaining a developer-centric company culture? I'm interested
in the idea of developers collaborating with sales/bizdev people to offer tech
consulting services with a different spin. I don't know if the gung-ho hacker
spirit meshes very well with the more, um, stodgy business types who'll make
up the clientele, though. Anyone have successful examples?

It seems like the current tech consulting model undervalues developers and
development, and I'd like to see that shaken up, especially in an industry as
profitable as that. Or is it really all about marketing presentations and
sales relationships in the end?

\----- Here's a good post on the topic by Paul Gallagher:

 _MNC's with a strong R &D focus, or the very successful software companies
already do technical career planning quite well (I've worked in a corporate
research lab that had a technical career ladder all the way up to chief
scientist - who could actually be more senior and with better benefits than
the CEO, depending on the incumbent).

However, in the "real world"(!), the IT industry is predominantly sales,
service and agency focused. i.e. businesses that are either
selling/integrating existing products, or selling people/time/projects. There
are very different dynamics at work than in R&D/PD:

\- For consulting firms and agencies, it is usually the case that the best
revenue contributors (the cash cows) are the mid-level technical staff (3-5
years experience). Beyond that, their margin % often drops, and it is also
harder to sell full utilisation.

\- The pressure to be than just a pure technical contributor ratchets up
pretty quickly: you are expected to take on pre-sales, delivery management,
and even business development the higher you go

\- Despite many of the larger firms operating locally (Oracle, NCS, Accenture,
IBM etc) having a focus on technical career development, you learn pretty
quickly that it is not the way to earn the big bucks. If you have the
aptitude, get into sales. Pre-sales is the best bet if you want to remain
largely technical, but also earn more and do less (although my friends in pre-
sales would probably argue that last point!)

\- The net result is that there's a general expectation that you will grow
into other responsibilities pretty early in your career and leave hard-core
development behind (for the next batch of grads). It is not just a local
problem, but it does vary in degree:

\- My own experience is that it does vary from country to country, but not by
much. On the whole by the time you get to late 20's/early 30's you better be
moving on up or there's trouble!

\- And there can be cultural idiosyncrasies in some countries - like older
generations who want to judge your "success" by the number of people working
for you.

It is in places where the services sector dwarfs the product development
sector that this becomes the dominant industry practice (i.e. most of the
world outside of Mountain View, Redmond, Silicon Valley)._

from [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/singapore-
rb/QsaJ-K5mQu4/61c...](https://groups.google.com/d/msg/singapore-
rb/QsaJ-K5mQu4/61cTfW4P9SEJ)

~~~
chaz
It absolutely can work -- I used to work at one. The model is for a few
principals / partners who are responsible for finding clients, negotiating
contracts, and attracting talent. The clients tend to be sales, marketing, or
finance organizations who are looking for projects to be built, but need a
separate team from the internal IT group because of either a) bandwidth, b)
expertise, or c) politics. The day-to-day project managers act as product
managers, lead consultants, and team leads. Developers are encouraged to work
closely with client contacts and attend all of the relevant product meetings.

These shops tend to stay small and maintain an specific expertise. It probably
doesn't fit most definitions of a startup (clear business model, slower
growth, requires little capital, not product focused), but it can be a good
business opportunity if you can keep your pipeline packed. A developer-centric
culture can indeed thrive, but doesn't appeal to everyone. You're building
something new, but you're walking away from it in 3-6 months, and getting
started is usually untangling and navigating an existing mess. There are tons
of business rules that require some laborious and byzantine exploration of the
business, and doing something new because it's cool and interesting usually
isn't an option. You're far less likely to have the freedom to pick fun new
technologies, but instead need to pick existing stuff that the internal IT
team knows how to maintain when you're out, even if it's two major versions
behind and you're not allowed to access the machines directly.

------
vitovito
I wouldn't try to escape the world of LMSes at all, I'd go straight there if
you want stability, precisely _because_ that's where you're "the guy."

Being a mid-career generalist is like not having chosen what degree you're
going to graduate college with in your second senior year. You haven't done
anything long enough to become an expert at it, to have it be second nature,
to be able to teach others, to be able to lead a team at it, to be able to
architect it. You're just a very experienced dilettante.

Early in your career when you haven't decided what to specialize in, that's
cool. Late in your career, when you've specialized for several years in
several different things such that you can wear any hat as a senior person,
that's also cool.

Mid-career? Not so cool in the eyes of companies, where they want specific
roles filled, not "find a problem and fix it, rinse, repeat."

If you're going to truly escape, then you're essentially restarting your
career as a generalist at rung 0, ground floor, grunt work development, and
hoping your experience gets recognized and you are allowed to rapidly advance
within an organization.

Either way, it's not an easy path at this point. (I chose to restart my career
about seven years ago, and am just about now "where I was" but in a different
field.)

~~~
skennedy
_A mid-career generalist is like not having chosen what degree you're going to
graduate college with in your second senior year_

Well said. However, being a "very experienced dilettante" is exactly what I am
hoping to capitalize on. When I left I was managing and mentoring people that
were all older than me. Technology XYZ or tried-n-true architecture ABC is not
always the best answer. I do not want to specialize because it forces me into
a box.

Truly escaping and starting at run 0 sounds truly depressing. But then, so
does the LMS world.

~~~
vitovito
Then you need to sell yourself directly to someone with hiring power, and skip
the HR/phone screen/interview dance. It's possible: I've walked into some
positions purely by my reputation. No resume, no interviews, just a
conversation and a when-can-you-start. But that means working your network
hard, networking more when that's tapped out, and there's no guarantee you'll
find something any time soon.

Work your LMS network to find people who will recommend you to their friends
outside the LMS industry?

Find an LMS startup that needs a senior generalist to be the "adult
supervision?"

Or, yeah, what chaz said: management. Own and run a product team. Product (not
project) managers often come from all walks.

------
chaz
What are the roles that you've been talking to employers about? Your
experience sounds most like a product manager to me: broad understanding of
technologies, experience with end customers and the value proposition to them,
ability to navigate an organization, and a technical background that drives
credibility internally and externally.

~~~
skennedy
Sadly, technical roles as I yet to get an interview for a Product Management
position. Companies seem to all require a certain number of years with that
title and I have yet to find the right way of presenting myself. Maybe I
should make a more concerted effort in that direction ... thank you!

~~~
chaz
Are companies actively telling you that you don't have enough experience, just
not responding, or are you getting discouraged by the job description? Having
written many job descriptions, a lot of it is a negotiable wishlist and actual
numbers of years is maybe one of the squishiest bullet points on the list and
is more indicative of maturity and overall work experience vs exp in the role.
Lots of PMs (not junior/associate/assistant PMs) get hired with just some
"business" experience (finance, consulting, marketing, etc.). I don't think
you should have a problem as long as you can demonstrate the qualities of a
PM.

You may also want to recraft your resume to be more pointed about your PM
experience and less focused on your engineering aspects. Here are two great
threads on Quora that can help you pitch yourself to the questions hiring mgrs
might want to see.

[http://www.quora.com/What-are-frequently-asked-questions-
in-...](http://www.quora.com/What-are-frequently-asked-questions-in-product-
manager-interviews) [http://www.quora.com/Recruiting/What-are-useful-
interview-qu...](http://www.quora.com/Recruiting/What-are-useful-interview-
questions-for-product-managers)

------
iamdave
I frequently have friends coming to me for resume help/career switching advice
because of my past as a recruiter for a very large, local healthcare provider.
(well, not local anymore, I moved)

In cases like this and many others where individuals aren't getting the
interviews they want almost always comes down to the resume; or more
specifically how you've worded the resume. Frequently, and to this day I
encourage one to take their resume from a laundry list of duties to a utility
belt of achievements and accolades.

By this, I don't mean promotions or medals awarded, but if you had to look at
one line per resume and decide who would get the job, who would you call back:

Resume A: "Follow-up on sales leads and deliver cutting-edge presentations on
our product"

Resume B: "Increased subproduct sales utilizing methods x, y and z; resulting
in an n% revenue boost for Q1 2013"

~~~
skennedy
Getting the interviews never seems to be the problem. The resume and cover
letter HR screening process is pretty predictable. But not having "5 years
experience in XYZ" is continually becoming a thorn in the side during in
person conversations.

------
xauronx
Have you ever considered that you actually downplay your knowledge? Saying
"I'm a generalist, I don't have in depth knowledge with technology XYZ" might
be killing you right out of the gates. If you're proficient in PHP, then just
take that as a positive. Doesn't matter if you know 10 other languages just as
well. You say you're not "the guy" on techology XYZ. Who is? If you were a
consultant, you should have enough experience to get shit done. What else
would most companies want? Also, be aware that while most companies say "We
want an XYZ ninja with 5 years of experience", that's in hope of scaring off
the really worthless people. Get in there, tell them all of the things you're
good at. Leave all of the negativity out of it.

Instead of "I'm a generalist, I don't have that in depth of knowledge with
PHP" say "Yes, I've done some PHP projects. I did [whatever] for company
[whoever], which was a great experience and they were really happy with it".

------
dmor
This might sound unexpected or unattractive at first but stick with me. A non-
entry level job that requires intelligence, high judgement, and a lot of
hustle is as an EA of a high level executive or the office manager of a tech
startup. You pretty much need to learn to do a little of everything and
anything that comes up in either case, and you'll be paid well and report to
someone senior who will trust you to make things happen and give your honest
opinion while using discretion.

I know a lot of people who have used this role to propel them in a new
direction, and in the startup case you can have a huge positive impact on the
culture and operations of a young company.

