
Why I left Japan after 10 years - LluisGerard
http://blog.uchujin.co.uk/2017/07/death-thousand-cuts-1-year-later-series/
======
patio11
I have had approximately 10 involuntary interactions with the Japanese cops
over the years. Here's my typical advice for foreign residents: you can pick
your battles but you can't pick your police counterparties. The overwhelming
likelihood if you are arbitrarily stopped by a police officer is that you were
stopped for a reason which is outside the parameters of the law. Being
vindicated by the law is something which is going to be extremely difficult
and high-stress for you. There exists the non-trivial chance that you will not
be vindicated even if you are in the right.

The officer expects nearly instant, ingratiating compliance. If you perform
instant, ingratiating compliance, you will likely exit the conversation
quickly and with your safety intact. If you consider your dignity more
important than your safety, that is your call, but know that you are making a
high-variance decision.

The intermediate steps of escalating a routine police encounter into a non-
routine police encounter, for example with the eventual goal of being
vindicated by the legal system, may involve legally or socially significant
events such as an arrest. You very urgently do _not_ want to be arrested. It
will have outsized social impacts on e.g. your employment and housing
situations and will be looked on with extreme displeasure by Immigration.

~~~
kintle
Within a month or so of purchasing a used bicycle in Tokyo, I had been stopped
more than 5 times by police. I guess the sight of a foreign guy on the
cheapest bike I could find screams police magnet. It was cute at first and I
was super polite and it would end quickly, but after a couple that resulted in
patdowns, searches, and 20+ minutes answering questions about my presence in
the country, I now make an effort to ride past the police if they're around.
It's also made me more aware of the need to be a bit more cautious as a
foreigner here than I thought

~~~
patio11
I had been wondering whether it was just Tokyo being more cosmopolitan but I'm
now wondering if the reason for less adversarial encounters is simply that I
haven't purchased a bike since leaving Ogaki.

(If this sounds dumbfounding to folks with less context: bicycle theft is near
the top of police priorities and they have the impression that foreigners are
the primary cause of it. "Suspicion of stealing my own bicycle" has
historically been the most common thing which attracted me adversarial
attention.)

~~~
fenomas
I had the same feeling. Personally I've only been stopped by police once
(randomly, to show the gaijin card) in 15+ years, and similar is true of most
of my friends. But I've occasionally met people who talked about getting
stopped a lot, and they've all been people who biked in the city.

~~~
kalleboo
Certainly to a degree it depends on the police district - here I've only been
stopped once and they were stopping everyone randomly due to some incident
nearby. I initially gave them my residence card but they didn't know what to
do with it and were a lot happier to see my driver's license. My bike wasn't
even anti-theft-registered (which is required here as anywhere else) but they
didn't seem to care and just noted the frame number without a comment.

------
markburns
It's kind of ironic how much he generalises Japanese people.

See bad thing - link to Japanese people as a whole or in general, rather than
the individual.

It's an easy mistake to make. Especially if you do ever hear it in the inverse
direction. "Foreigners do X or Y", etc.

If he aimed to replace generic instances of 'Japanese people' or 'in Japan'
with specific reference to the instance or person, I think he'd have had a
better time in life.

And yes, it's difficult to encounter any amount of racism and not feel that
the group of people that the racist person came from, do not in fact as a
whole demonstrate racist behaviours in general. Obviously not at a higher
cognitive level, but at an emotional reacting to a certain way of having been
dealt with or treat.

But it's absolutely necessary to stop the generalisation, even if only for
one's personal mental health. It serves no purpose other than wiring our
animal brains up more strongly, to think of us vs them.

And try and notice it more often in Western media too. Any time there is a
mention of someone's race, see whether it would look out of place with Black
or Latino or Asian replaced with white.

It's often a completely irrelevant piece of information.

As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post.

Yep lot's of terrible people in lots of places in the world, and the fact that
they were Japanese in this instance is more related to the fact that they were
born and brought up in Japan than some inherent generic flaws with an entire
country of people.

And yes Japan has problems that aren't in other parts of the world, and vice
versa. It still doesn't befit using `X people do Y` type generalisations.

~~~
brucephillips
> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post.

You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese
culture?

Cultures have traits. Some of those traits can be good. Others can be bad. It
doesn't mean all of those people exhibit those traits. We shouldn't judge
individuals based on those prejudices, but it's equally mistaken to fault
people from talking about cultures generally.

Half of his post is about the Japanese penal system, which is known to be
extremely unfair and broken. This isn't an over generalization. It's a
reality, and one that should be discussed soberly.

~~~
markburns
It's a difficult nuance in the point I'm trying to make, so I apologise.

It's probably not a great analogy but, I think that if you were in e.g. the
USA and there was use of White American Judicial System, or White American
Police Force or something along those lines it would really scream out at you.

I realise he is out of Japan now and the blog post is not necessarily
targeting people in Japan, but a lot of foreigners in Japan will prefix
Japanese things, people, institutions etc with the adjective Japanese,
particularly when talking about negative experiences or encounters.

When really the adjective should be redundant in those environments.

And yes I agree that the Japanese penal system is terrible. But the problem is
more the continual strong association and reinforcement with everything and
everyone Japanese.

He could have explained why he chose to leave Japan and then stop the
continual references. I'm positing that the continual references, throughout
the article, to Japan and Japanese people etc are both overkill and could
reflect inherent biases. I'm not saying they definitely do, but I think he'd
have an easier time if he stopped associating the negative things in general
with Japan and Japanese people and attributed them more to the specific
situations, institutions and people.

Within context: "The police are awful" is better for your mental health than
"The Japanese police are awful".

~~~
brucephillips
> Within context: "The police are awful" is better for your mental health than
> "The Japanese police are awful".

Except the entire purpose of that section of the post was to describe Japanese
police.

~~~
markburns
My point is that the context there being 'in Japan' and so the adjective is
redundant (and exhibits the problems I've mentioned earlier).

And in that context he could say "The British police are awful" vs "The police
are awful"

To compare. And then, yes, when it becomes necessary then yes, prefix with the
adjective. In some cases it does make sense and aid communication.

I'm saying the blanket prefixing with the adjective is the problematic part.

It's fine if you don't agree, it's just a communication pattern I have noticed
that doesn't seem to benefit anyone.

~~~
watwut
Isn't it just nitpicking? I have seen similar pattern when people talked about
German police in context of Germany and Switz school system in context of
Switzerland.

People who switch countries often talk that way without it being an insult.

~~~
markburns
I'm not asserting people should stop this communication anti-pattern for the
sake of others or that it's an insult.

I'm saying that framing things in this way can be bad for the mental health of
the person who says it.

------
dintech
Most of thos stuff, you work out after a few months in Japan. I get the
feeling there is more that the author's personal situation that he isn't
saying. After 10 years, I really expect a deeper and more nuanced critique.
The most difficult experiences in Japan come from not really knowing people
more than what they want to show you. The Japanese are masters of the 'public
face'.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae)

~~~
sho
> I get the feeling there is more that the author's personal situation that he
> isn't saying

Yes, I definitely think so too. And the article about cycling in tokyo he
links to [1] hints at this more. I've cycled very extensively in tokyo over
the years i lived there and the experience he describes sounds, ironically,
totally foreign to me. Tokyo's a wonderful and extremely safe place to cycle,
which is of course why millions of people do so. To see such an inexplicably
and exaggeratedly negative rant about something I rarely had anything but
positive experiences with makes me think there's more than a few personal
issues colouring the author's viewpoint.

> "the vast majority of cyclists in Tokyo are criminally irresponsible"

I mean that is just a ludicrous assertion which basically makes me ignore
whatever else the author has to say. No wonder he gets dismissed in arguments
if that's the sort of thing he comes out with.

There are plenty of examples in the article which are equally foreign to me
(repeated intimidation during gaijin card checks? Huh? I had one, ever, and
they were unfailingly polite). Japan isn't perfect, not even close, but it's
not _this_ bad.

[1] [http://blog.uchujin.co.uk/2012/07/cycling-in-tokyo-
irrespons...](http://blog.uchujin.co.uk/2012/07/cycling-in-tokyo-
irresponsibility-incompetence/)

~~~
Tharkun
I had the same reaction reading their cyclist rant. Even the video made no
sense. It show a couple of cyclists committing minor trafic infractions, but
apparently those are "criminally irresponsible" acts.

It's their blog, so they're welcome to bitch and moan as much as they want.
But this strikes me as one of those people who are frequently told to lighten
up.

~~~
dintech
As someone who lives in the UK and has spent a lot of time in Japan, I can
promise you that it's way more dangerous to be a pedestrian in the UK.
Pedestrian crossings mean nothing to the zooming, lycra-clad morons who think
the roads are their own private velodrome.

~~~
Tharkun
That's not my experience in the UK. In my experience there are very, very few
cyclists in the UK. To the point that anything they do wrong is pretty much
irrelevant.

Disclaimer: I've spent most of my life living in areas where bicycles
outnumber cars, so my standards are likely different from yours.

------
cannonpr
I haven't spent ten years in Japan, but I have spent some time there. Some of
his complaints do ring true especially around civil rights, however his
experience of it feels very weird. I was praised for my language skills,
accepted and invited to family outings, never had issues with restaurants that
had no foreigner signs (after I spoke Japanese even badly it was all fine so
long as acted within their cultures manners) and the police were nothing but
helpful, gave directions etc, outside of Tokyo they even gave me a ride when I
miscalculated a hike. So yes I agree Japan has huge issues... however I can't
really explain the toxicity of his experience. Yes I'm white non Asian, pretty
tall, and pretty certain they won't ever mistake me for a local. They also
always used the San or other appropriate honorifics, it helps if you adopt a
'japanified' name and introduce your self that way.

~~~
ramchip
I feel the same. I've been stopped by the police 0 times in 7 years, never
been refused service anywhere, younger people (e.g. in my old university club)
always call me ~san or ~sempai, etc.

There's real issues with things like the legal system and independence of
press, but I think this post wildly exaggerates what it's like to live in
Japan as a foreigner. I'm not sure how to explain OP's experience. Maybe he
comes off too confrontational? He does call the police "fascists" in another
blog post...

------
4bpp
> Japanese people often told me that Kabukicho (...) was the most dangerous
> place in Japan and often asked if I wasn’t scared of the Yakuza (Japanese
> Mafia) who openly parade the area.

> My reply was always a simple one, “The Yakuza and Kabukicho aren’t scary, if
> you don’t mess with them they don’t mess with you. The Police? Now that’s a
> different story. Hands down scariest thing in Japan is the Police & the
> Justice system”.

So he responded to a low-key compliment by insulting the interlocutor's
country? If this is representative of how he interacted with people there, I'm
not surprised that he was unpopular.

Criticising the police is an exercise in civic bonding in the Anglo-American
sphere these days, but I don't think it's much of a thing in Japan (and they
tend to be very proud of their public safety climate). Was the author simply
unaware of this, did he think that only his own culture's priorities regarding
what it is okay to criticise matter, or did he not realise that people tend to
identify strongly with at least some aspects of their countries at all?
(Certainly, the UK has its own set of holy cows: back when I lived there, I
learned of one the hard way after suggesting during a casual conversation that
the political system of the UK would have turned out better if it had gone
through at least one violent revolution in the past two-or-so centuries as all
the other European countries did.)

------
lordnacho
I suspect that feeling of being unwelcome would strike you in many countries.
As far as I can tell, there's only a few cities around the world where my
being foreign was a non-issue.

I lived in Switzerland for a good few years, but although there are plenty of
friendly people, the few people who weren't so friendly soured things. I
suspect a different roll of the dice would have made it a much nicer
experience.

You could tell you were getting the "foreigner rate" on quotes to fix things
around your house. How do you know? You get a person who speaks the local
language to ask for a quote.

People didn't trust me either. I got sued because a guy who I'd contracted to
do some work wanted to get paid. He hadn't done the work, another guy had. But
that didn't stop him from suing me. When I got to the pre-court hearing I
found out the arbitrator was a friend of his.

You also get it thrown in your face that "this is how it is around here". With
the understanding that of course you are only there for the tax rate and the
skiing. This was particularly scary as a colleague of mine had his kids
bullied in school, and was somehow expected to climb out of that hole himself.

But I doubt this sort of thing is particular to any country. People will
always deal with the unfamiliar with some caution. You're always going to have
language and cultural disadvantages.

~~~
Symbiote
In Europe, Switzerland is known to be particularly unwelcoming to foreigners.

"Out of 67 countries, Switzerland ranks 64th for friendliness and making
newcomers feel welcome"

[http://lenews.ch/2016/09/02/expats-in-switzerland-arent-
feel...](http://lenews.ch/2016/09/02/expats-in-switzerland-arent-feeling-the-
love-says-a-new-survey-measuring-quality-of-life/)

~~~
saiya-jin
Disclaimer - I am a foreigner in Switzerland.

It's a bit distorted - it is a country with by far the highest immigration
population in whole europe, if not whole world.

If they simply didn't want foreigners in their country, they can tweak
working/residence permit situation so that most wouldn't qualify. They do and
welcome them/us, BUT - you have to adapt and learn the language(s). Many,
especially english-speaking expats, do have serious issues with this.

If you just roll in arrogantly and expect that your english will be enough and
people will be coming to you in crowds to be your friends, then it it might
not (or it might, depends). Simply because most of the country is full of
similar people. Don't expect magic in some remote tiny valley, like anywhere.

That said, I am one living in french part who doesn't speak French properly,
and I am just fine. It will help me a lot to learn it properly, my biggest
TODO for near future. If I would be almost anywhere in France for example, I
would be properly screwed without +-good level of french.

~~~
m_mueller
As a Swiss - thank you for seeing it like this! I do think that Switzerland in
general should be more welcoming to immigrants, but at the same time I'd say
that the somewhat more forceful stance towards integration has proven more
successful compared to what's happening in neighbouring countries. Being
treated with the same harshness as Swiss treat other Swiss can be quite
shocking at first, especially compared to the warm welcome extended in many
other cultures, the US included - but at some point you start appreciating it.
I've also been in Japan now for years and I'm well aware of the fact that I
could never fully integrate here, while vice versa this is luckily not true
for my Japanese wife in Switzerland.

------
arnioxux
The "JAPANESE ONLY" sign was probably meant for chinese tourists. The kanji
below it, "謝绝中国人", translates roughly to "decline chinese people" which is
understandable given their notorious behavior abroad:

[http://shanghaiist.com/2016/12/30/shanghaiist_2016_embarrass...](http://shanghaiist.com/2016/12/30/shanghaiist_2016_embarrassing_tourists.php)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/world/asia/bad-manners-
ch...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/world/asia/bad-manners-china-
tourism-blacklist.html)

[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2016/10/07/commentary/wo...](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2016/10/07/commentary/world-
commentary/chinese-tourists-badly-behaved/#.WW8YmHXyttg)

~~~
mikekchar
I'm trying to avoid commenting on this thread because I think it is impossible
for me to write a nuanced enough response that will give people a closer
understanding of what it's like to live here (I moved here 10 years ago,
though I spent 2 years in the UK, so 8 years total).

However, I can comment on the "Japanese only" signs. I've never actually seen
one myself, but I know they exist in some places. An acquaintance of mine is
well connected with a particular sumo heya (a "heya" is essentially a group of
sumo wrestlers who live and train together along with their trainers and
staff). It is popular (and fun) to go and watch the wrestlers train in their
heya, but one is sometimes confronted with the "Japanese Only" sign at the
entrance.

My acquaintance is not Japanese (he isn't even a resident), but like I said,
he is well acquainted with the heya. One time, he asked some visiting
foreigners if they wanted to watch the training and they were delighted to
accept. When they got to the entrance they saw the sign. "Is it really OK?",
they asked.

"It's fine. I've made arrangements. As far as the heya is concerned, if you
know how to make arrangements to visit the heya, then you are Japanese".

Living in Japan can be very difficult for people who are not culturally
Japanese. There is a weird inside/outside culture where either your are inside
with a bunch of strange rules that you have to follow (and know to follow,
somehow) or you are outside (where you don't really need to know or follow any
rules). What "Japanese Only" means is that they only want people who know what
the rules are, know how to follow the rules, and most importantly, are willing
to follow the rules to the letter even if they think the rules are stupid. If
you can do that, then you are "Japanese enough".

Generally speaking, there are few cultures in the world with the same kind of
byzantine rule following culture that Japan has. Many cultures are literally
morally opposed to blindly following rules. People from those cultures often
have great difficulty in certain circumstances in Japan. However, if you show
that you are willing and able to surmount those hurdles, my experience has
been that most people have no trouble accepting you as Japanese.

~~~
GolDDranks
As a fellow expat in Japan, this was the best explanation I've seen for a
while! Kudos.

------
gonvaled
It is extremely difficult to integrate in a foreign society. Even a good
language level will only carry you so far.

In my opinion, Western Europe, US and Canada are quite open, and let people,
if not integrate, at least mind their own business.

Immigrants are usually also to blame, since often integration is not a
priority. I've lived in several places around Europe, and usually foreigners
stick together: it is easier to become friends with a German in France than it
is in Germany, maybe because immigrants have similar mindsets, and experience
similar problems.

What worries me is that it seems these relatively open societies are rapidly
closing: nationalism is on the rise everywhere.

~~~
popcorncolonel
And here I was thinking the exact opposite would have happened due to the
Internet.

------
kristianc
Having lived in Japan, there's this weird curve that people go through when
they move.

Most people love Japan at first, and then, particularly if they're middle-aged
and white, the frustration of being in your late thirties and living in a tiny
house, not being able to progress in your career, and not having a social life
begins to kick in.

At that point, little things which shouldn't bother you - like the word gaijin
which although unpleasant to Western ears is purely a descriptive term and the
ignorance about the rest of the world begin to bother you. You also come to
understand enough Japanese to understand what people are really saying beneath
the surface.

For what its worth, I found Japan incredibly safe, welcoming and unfailingly
polite. I went to get my hair cut and by the end of it once the hairdresser
had taken my number and offered to take me to Tsukiji fish auction!

I think it is possible to go through an extended period in Japan without being
consumed by bitterness like the OP, though it is a pattern I see quite often.

~~~
reustle
> without being consumed by bitterness like the OP, though it is a pattern I
> see quite often.

I've lived in Japan for over a year and have experienced these people
sometimes. Generally it comes down to them being an overall bitter person in
general.

------
geomark
Some interesting parallels with Thailand. Like with the use of language. I'm
pretty fluent in Thai and older than many of the people I meet but they still
refer to me as คุณ which means "you" when you are speaking to a peer when it
would be more appropriate to use พี่ when speaking to someone older. And the
word for westerner ฝรั่ง, while not an insult, is used to clearly identify
someone as an outsider and not "one of us Thai people". Seems similar to how
"gaijin" is used in Japan.

There's also that same attitude about being superior than others - most
western countries are particularly crude because they don't even have a royal
family. Yet they are extremely sensitive about being looked down upon and
pretend that the many vulgar behaviors that are so common don't even exist in
the country.

Off topic, I know, but some of the parallels are interesting.

------
collyw
Sounds like Japanese are happy with their culture and don't want it changed
especially not by foreigners.

It seems like a reasonable enough position, but I wonder if there a way to
express this desire in a way that couldn't easily be criticized as being
"xenopohbic"?

Is there something inherently wrong with this attitude? (I personally wouldn't
want to be a foreigner living there is what he describes is true, but no one
is forcing me to move to Japan).

~~~
amiga-workbench
It doesn't ring as being particularly Xenophobic to me, they just have a
strong cultural backbone unlike the west.

I wouldn't even consider moving to another country unless I was prepared to
integrate and abide by cultural norms.

~~~
collyw
Like I say, it seems like a reasonable enough view, yet I can't find a way of
describing that view that couldn't easily be criticized as xenophobic. (If I
imagine taking any of the attitudes described in the article and doing the
same thing here, many people would criticize them as being xenophibic).

~~~
J-dawg
I guess trying to reverse cultural change will always be seen as more
xenophobic than keeping outside influences away in the first place.

This is illogical, I suppose, since really they amount to the same thing.

------
drops
>The level of English in Japan is shockingly low, despite everyone studying it
for 6 years at school. I honestly think it is kept deliberately low

>I honestly think it is kept deliberately low

Is this guy serious?

~~~
EliRivers
It seems that he is serious. You knew that already. Perhaps you disagree?
Perhaps you can present your own findings and contribute to the discussion?

Based on my own fairly limited experience in Japan, English as learned in
school doesn't seem to translate (a ha ha) into effective English
conversation. It seems that an academic rigor is taught (no bad thing, of
course) but practical conversation skills are neglected.

~~~
Kurtz79
I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of
the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling.

It is understandable if you are a professional dealing with foreign companies,
or if you are involved in the tourism business; that leaves out the vast
majority of the population, which is not willing to invest hundreds of hours
learning a skill that does not provide any significant benefit in their daily
lives.

You are absolutely correct that the English taught is school is nearly
useless, considering that in those 6 years my guess that English is taught
some 2-3 hours per week.

I would be curious to know how many people in US or UK consider themselves
fluent in a foreign language for a class they took for a few years in
middle/high school.

~~~
fpig
> I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest
> of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling.

I've noticed the opposite attitude. At least among western countries, the
opposition to forcing kids to learn English seems to be far more prevalent
among Americans and Brits than among non-anglophones.

In my country, English is mandatory in both primary and secondary education
and this is not controversial in any way. It is considered common sense. You
mention a lack of significant benefits to people's daily lives - of all the
things kids learn in school, what is more useful than learning English? Very
basic math certainly as it is necessary to function as an adult, but not much
else. I don't remember what the anatomy of an arthropod is like nor do I need
this information and I learned a ton of stuff like that in school, while being
able to speak (and even more so read) English has opened many doors for me and
been useful in so many ways. Academically, professionally and privately.

For anglophones, they and their kids are going to speak English and be fine in
the modern world either way. So it is easier for them to virtue signal by
dismissing the importance of learning English and supporting some misguided
idea of "language equality". A lot of anglophones also don't notice the
incredible amount of information in English and the incredible amount of
people who speak English to some degree because they take it for granted,
causing them to underestimate the usefulness of the language.

Japan may be an exception because it is culturally isolated compared to, for
example, the EU. But still, I can't help but think investing more effort in
teaching kids English would likely be more useful than at least some things
they learn in school, even in Japan.

Also, fluent vs nearly useless is a false dichotomy.

~~~
watwut
Pretty much agree. Knowing English if you are not from America is super
important - you are limited _a lot_ if you don't know it. Maybe not if you
work in agriculture or something like that, but anything beyond that requires
it.

And that is just talking about jobs. Wast amount of knowledge and
entertainment is not translated to smaller languages and discussion happen in
English. Especially in less popular areas.

Includes science and technology btw. If you can not read English blog or
documentation, then you will be limited as a programmer.

------
amake
> I can speak a reasonable level of Japanese

This stands out to me. Raising your spoken Japanese from "reasonable" to
"excellent" (especially with regards to accent) makes a huge difference in how
people interact with you. Likewise a high level of literacy is required as
well to navigate daily life without stress. (Of course if you live in an
English bubble then YMMV.)

Anecdotally, I rarely see these Japan ragequits among people with high-level
language skills.

------
lavarendex6
The article is full of whining about imaginary BS like gender-bias and the
writer seems to be doing everything is his/her power to look for problems that
really don't exist like complaining about the word "foreigner" and trying to
find racism or discrimination in everything.

Japan may have it's problems but this is ridiculous.

~~~
spin
I'm an American living in Japan (about 12 years now). Most of the stuff he's
talking about is totally true. But, like some other commenters have been
saying, I feel like: you figure that stuff out after a couple years and make
peace with it (or not). There are many good and bad things about Japan. And
it's different if you're a foreigner in Japan, yes. And it depends on where
you're from and what color your skin is, etc.

My only question is why did it take him 10 years to "get fed up" with it? Most
people who leave do so after a year or so. Most people who stay longer than a
couple years tend to stay for a very long time.

~~~
ramchip
I think some of the points are really exaggerated. Take this:

> That’s not to say that some nasty malice isn’t present because it most
> definitely is. I lost count of the times when, say, for example, politely
> pointing out to someone that there was a queue and they shouldn’t push in
> that the immediate response was a very angry “BAKA GAIJIN” (stupid
> foreigner).

Really, that happened often enough that he "lost count"? In 7 years, I haven't
seen anything close to this.

~~~
spin
Hmm, yeah, that's never happened to me, either. I've never been assaulted,
either. I have been harassed by other foreigners though, but that's almost
always in the "seedy" areas, like Roppongi or Kabukicho.

I rarely, if ever get harassed by the police. But I know some Asian-American
friends who get harassed... eg: the cop thinks he's Vietnamese, so starts
giving him trouble. When the cop finds out he's from the U.S., all of a sudden
the cop starts acting totally nice. I'd call that racism.

------
oskarth
I don't understand. Why did the person stay for 10 years? This seems like
something you notice after 1 year, or even a few months, let alone 10 years.
Is there some family context here that is missing?

~~~
peteretep
Yes. You're missing the bellcurve of frustration he described, and I recognize
it from other countries I've lived in.

At first, you think you're a bit on the outside because you don't know very
much and don't speak the language, and you tend to attribute things to your
own ignorance.

As you learn more, more and more of the country opens up to you. You make some
local friends, you can survive in a small town where no-one speaks English for
a few days, and you can have some experiences not available to tourists.

As you learn even more, you notice little slights you didn't notice before --
he gives the example of honorifics. You understand the nuances of comments
people make to you. You realize that you'll never be accepted or taken
seriously for who you are, you'll always just be an outside.

------
staticelf
Just came back after a month of vacation in Japan. Honestly, I saw like 3
police cars on the entire journey and I saw more police officers in the
airport than the rest of the trip.

I come from Sweden, a relatively safe country. However, compared to Japan it
is not. I felt incredible safe in Japan. Everyone is super friendly but hard
to talk to since they don't generally won't speak english.

I wanted to meet some japanese people and make some friends while I was there
but it was harder than I thought it would be. This is probably the only
critisism I have except that they should install a lot more garbage bins and
learn that a sidewalk is not a good place to bike on. Why not make better
sidewalks and a bike lane?

------
uniclaude
Except for the police/law part which is obviously scary, I find some of those
points to offer quite the silver lining.

I have been in Japan for a while, and the fact that you will never be accepted
is totally OK for me. I appreciate feeling like an outsider, and as long as
people are polite to me and my friends/family, I have no objections to people
not calling me uniclaude san.

You see, when you're not a white male, it sometimes feel like you're an
outsider even in your home country (provided the said country is mostly
white), so for the first time, in Japan, I'm not the colored dude, I'm an
outsider, a foreigner, and that's it. To be honest this is not a "Japan-only"
thing, the same point could be made for some other countries like China.

Then, because this is HN, let's bring a second point:

The glass ceiling faced by foreigners in Japanese companies is a dream for us
startup founders. It's rare for a potential prospect to have more room for
growth in a Japanese company than in your startup if that person is a
foreigner. It's sad, but it helps a lot when hiring top talent. Let's also
note that the visa situation for engineers is very easy compared to many other
first world countries like the USA.

------
lkramer
I lived in Japan for 4 years, and afterwards felt in many ways similar, it's a
place that can take a lot out of you, especially if you have expectations of
fitting in.

That said, in my 4 years there, the police was never anything but polite and
friendly (I was never once stopped for a bag search or gaijin card check
either) and now living in London, I find the police here, while polite and
professional, much more intimidating with their open carry of massive guns.
(This is not to excuse the very real problems with judicial fairness that have
been well documented elsewhere).

I think everybody's experience is different, but most foreigners I know who's
stayed there long term does seem to develop a sort of exhaustion with the
place.

~~~
peteretep

        > with their open carry of massive guns
    

This is an odd comment for a country (and indeed city) where the police are
not routinely armed.

~~~
lkramer
I guess it's largely a response to terrorism, but I routinely see heavily
armed policemen at various tube stations.

------
soufron
What an ass. I lived and worked in Japan for several years and I had
understood all of the hardness of everyday Japan even before deciding to
settle there for a while. To think that it took him several years to get it...
and 10 years to decide to do something about it... It's a moron. Nothing else.

~~~
cyphunk
People that sour about their host country I find sometimes have something
relevant in their past missing from the story. Such as externalities that
force them to move to or live in current host for longer than they wanted.
Still, there is a long discussion in this article about issues with the
Japanese legal system that is worth while.

------
ternaryoperator
My experience was totally different in in the main point: the Japanese were
unfailingly polite and courteous with me. But, unlike this fellow, I was
comfortable being viewed as a foreigner. And always respectful in my
expression.

(I was also younger than him when I lived there, which might also have made a
difference.)

------
valentinebm
Quick remark: the Chinese text on the 5th picture (below 'JAPANESE ONLY')
reads '謝絕中中國人'. This literally means 'Decline Chinese people', suggesting that
the place is specifically not willing to receive to Chinese visitors.

Thought it might be interesting to point out.

~~~
danso
Someone else in this discussion has pointed out that it makes sense that the
Chinese is targeted at Chinese, as most English speaking folk don't know
Chinese. And the English phrase is purposefully broad because English-speaking
foreigners could be from a huge variety of countries.

~~~
valentinebm
Makes sense.

Still, wondering why the Chinese is purposefully so narrow and doesn't read
'谢绝外国人‘ (no foreigners) instead of '谢绝中国人' (no Chinese people).

~~~
scott_karana
Leaves no room for misinterpretation, like we're already seeing in this
thread.

A Chinese tourist, seeing a sign with unintelligible English plus "No
foreigners" written in Hanzi/Kanji, could assume they're _not_ foreign, since
they're not Anglophone...

------
kristofferR
I'll be honest, but I got the feeling right away that his negative experience
probably has more to do with his personality than the country in itself.

His "Cycling in Tokyo" post is just absurdly pessimistic and dark, for
example. His username is littleblackheart.

When you project negativity people tend to project it back at you.

Most of his criticism is probably valid in some way, but if I were him I
wouldn't make them as important to my experience of the country as he seems to
have done.

------
flor1s
I can't agree with all of the author's opinions, though I have lived in Japan
for only three years and I don't live in Tokyo. For me the experience has been
positive until now. I have met some of the kindest people in the world and I
feel welcome in my university and in the research institute I did an
internship at.

Japanese society has some social quircks which are kind of unsettling for me
as a foreigner, but those have not spoiled my stay here.

------
madaxe_again
Many of the problems he describes aren't exclusively Japanese, but a few, like
the hierarchical view and casual racism are far more particular to the
Japanese.

It's not hard to understand where it comes from, however - Japan is something
of a cultural isolate, and resisted European and others' overtures well into
the 19th century - at which point they underwent explosive industrialisation
and social upheaval.

Then there was the whole mess of their wars of expansion in early 20c.,
culminating in WWII. Following that, American occupation and control, which
ended many decades ago.

What I'm getting at is that there's been a huge amount of technical and
societal change in Japan over the last 150 years - but not as much social
change. You can change how people make their meals, spend their days, travel
to work, but you can't shake notions like bushido or sakoku overnight.

~~~
TheArcane
Perhaps the gender inequality issue too.

------
d1ffuz0r
Come to Russia instead, it's the best to be for a foreigner

~~~
Grue3
Lol. Literally every single one of his complaints is even worse in Russia.
Hating foreigners? They teach us that from kindergarten. Police doesn't like
you? You're screwed completely. And god help you if your skin is even slightly
darker than white (or if you happen to be gay).

~~~
Veratyr
It might be because I married a Russian but when I visited, Russians were
nothing but welcoming, even strangers unknown both to my wife and me.

------
romanovcode
White text on black background - what a horrible choice of colours. Cannot
read it for more than 3 minutes.

~~~
buserror
Right click background, 'Inspect Element' in Chrome, and go unclick all the
color properties. And yes, I agree, white on black is always terrible on the
eyes!

As far as Japan goes, I've never been there, but I interacted/worked with many
and I have to say the only thing that I still find quite disturbing is the
'Yes' problem. I remember extensive engineering meeting where everyone
'Agreed' and a week later, you realized actually they didn't _really_ mean
'yes' when they agreed. Fun.

------
Liriel
Some of the points he makes are spot on. I’ve worked with over 1000 Japanese
ppl in almost 2 years. They are… complex in a way I can not describe… Some of
the biggest cultural differences: 1\. Don’t presume they’re happy when they’re
smiling. 2\. Their thank you doesn’t mean they are actually thankful, nor
satisfied. 3\. If you see a smiling Japanese grandma, run for your bloody
life, those are the worst. 4\. If you’re not smiling, you’re rude. 5\. If
someone tells you that you’re pretty, you should smile, and say thank you. No,
don’t respond with: “Umm, can you please stop saying that? What does my look
have to do with the way I do my job?” - I've been reported as rude to the QA
team because of that.

------
Arkaad
The last photo of the post features a girl giving the finger towards the
camera. The author of the blog should know that taking a picture of someone
without their consent is considered as quite rude in Japan.

------
norswap
So I guess the vitriol didn't have the time to subside after all.

Some interesting points, though.

------
_pmf_
The police situation is something I've never heard of from colleagues who have
lived in Japan (5 years ago); is this a recent development?

~~~
lovemenot
Nope. It's not been my current or previous experience at all. Just two times
stopped by police in 20 years.

The diversity of apparently sincerely expressed experience on this and most
other matters in TFA, makes me wonder whether one's attitude isn't a major
contributor to one's treatment.

------
renegadesensei
This was a really good piece. I have also lived in Japan for some time and I
can relate to many of his experiences. Unlike some of his critics, I don't
think anything he wrote is completely wrong. There may be some embellishment
or unrepresentative anecdotes, but for the most part I think he paints a
fairly accurate picture, at least from a foreign perspective.

I have met a lot of other western foreigners who have lived in Japan for a
very long time. One of my coworkers is an eastern European guy who has lived
in Japan since 1994. He absolutely adores everything about the country and its
people. When I compare his perspective to that of this author's, an important
point becomes clear in my mind: Being a happy immigrant requires a very deep
level of assimilation.

It isn't about learning the language or copying the mannerisms. It is also
about adopting the value system. Many of the author's complaints demonstrate a
preference for a western European cultural value system. For example, he
complains about the lack of hate speech laws, the more authoritarian police,
the lack of tolerance of diversity, the lack of gender equality, and so on.

He uses phrases like "more enlightened 21st century countries," and makes a
lot of sweeping statements about the Japanese people. It's almost as if he's
annoyed that Japanese people are Japanese and not British. Cultures aren't
costumes. It's not just different foods and clothing. It's fundamentally
different ways of understanding the world. In racially homogeneous societies,
it's also about an implicit in-group out-group orientation. You'll feel that
everywhere from Japan to Nigeria.

I am an immigrant in Japan. I have made peace with the fact that I am always
going to be an outsider. I have made peace with those aspects of their culture
I find unpleasant. On balance I think the lifestyle and culture is superior to
most other places, so I am content.

------
fiblye
I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in
America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it.

So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving
similar vitriol aside from the OP.

A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about
racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it.

I'm not here to dismiss the author's claims, but most of the weeaboo to Japan
hater crowd I've found is people who lived very cushy lives with close family
bonds, and when they put that aside in a somewhat "cold" culture, they take
offense to everything. As a cold, unsocial person myself, Japan is incredibly
welcoming in that I feel like I can finally be left alone without being
isolated. I hated having people randomly start conversations with me in
America. I disliked the "not my job" attitude of Americans. I very strongly
disliked how confrontational and easily angered Americans were (especially how
people complained about restaurant services and the minorest of things, while
here, it's practically unseen).

And then there's the people complaining about being a "foreigner forever."
Honestly, how many asians in America get asked,"so, where are you from?"
whenever they meet someone? I've seen it countless times. It's just a matter
of being on the other end of it now.

And then he leads into "I can't believe they don't restrict speech and porn
the way we do in my culture." In all honesty, fuck off. This is no better than
someone being disgusted by western media showing bare female hair. The
standards are subjective.

~~~
brucephillips
> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now.

Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no
Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always
English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

~~~
jaredklewis
Most Japanese I know speak Japanese with me. Of course sometime strangers,
usually as a kind gesture, speak to me in English. If it seems the
conversation can be smoothly done in English, we continue in English. If not,
I switch into Japanese and we continue in Japanese. How is any of that
offensive or anything but kind?

Comparing the situation to America seems silly. Most people don't speak to
Asians on the street in Japanese because most Americans don't speak Japanese.
My Japanese wife, on the other hand, was addressed in Chinese when in china
town in New York. Yes, confusion sometimes happens in all countries.

English is an International language and the majority of Japanese known at
least a little bit. People of all countries can be expected know some English.
If they speak to you in English, they are probably working off the
statistically sound assumption that you might not speak Japanese, and are
merely trying to communicate.

~~~
brucephillips
> How is any of that offensive or anything but kind?

When did I say it was offensive?

~~~
jaredklewis
Good point. Apologies if I projected the main post's angst onto your comment.

Perhaps I am little defensive as I often encounter the point of view that if a
foreigner is treated any differently than a racially Japanese person, that
this is somehow a fault of Japanese or their culture, when really the worst
you can say about them on this topic is that they are observant. People get
all worked up that Japanese people know they are white.

It's like I'm older and get asked if I have kids all the time. My younger
colleagues never get asked that. They get asked where they went to school and
such. It's not discrimination, it's people trying to make conversation and
making some reasonable assumptions along the way.

Anyway rant over.

------
gopz
What I've found after living in a few foreign countries (originally from the
US):

If you balk at minor incidents of xenophobia and in so doing generally act as
if you don't belong, it will only make it worse.

If you can take it in stride and keep a stiff upper lip people will assume
you've already gone through enough "hazing" and leave you alone/be more
welcoming.

Even if you're trying to be polite, being overly apologetic is almost always
bad, unless the situation is incredibly dire. It makes people think you are
trying to get away with something by being there.

------
cyphunk
the OP was wondering if after a year they would be able to write an
objectionable article about their experience... definitely another year might
help. Regardless I'm still happy they shared their experiences.

The comments on HN are mostly disturbed by the self-righteous tone of the
article. This phrase is probably around the centre of that tone [highlight
mine]:

> a poor excuse for attitudes that would be met with derision in more
> [enlightened 21st-century countries]

Also the author finds problems in Japan that they seem to ignore in many other
places:

> It was somewhere I lived for 10 years, it was never my home, could never
> have been my home. Regardless of how good my Japanese language skills became
> or how much I had tried to become like them, I would never have been fully
> accepted, never been allowed in the club.

Basically it sounds almost like the author is saying that they just like to
live where they are part of the native majority. Because, I think you will
experience this everywhere. I've seen and experienced exactly the same in the
following countries (In order of level disgustingness at which the 'not-part-
of-our-society' is shovelled out): Israel, US, Germany.

But still there is a lot in the article worth reading if one can get through
the tone. Specifically the legal architecture.

------
ttflee
> The level of English in Japan is shockingly low, despite everyone studying
> it for 6 years at school. I honestly think it is kept deliberately low,
> people have access to the web but they can’t understand the English 90% of
> it is written in so there is no need for Chinese style censorship.

The Chinese style censorship has nothing to do with understanding of English.

------
darasan
Lived in Tokyo for 5 years, doing business there for 8. I strongly disagree
with many of the claims in this article. Many of them are absurd or simply
untrue, so I’ll just pick a couple here.

    
    
         “At every place I ever worked, however, I was always referred to by my first name “Adrian” or at best “Adrian San” even by much younger staff members.”
    

I worked as a software dev at 2 very traditional Japanese companies. I was
usually referred to “First name” - san, sometimes as “Family name”-san. Close
friends or colleagues would sometimes call me by first name. I’m quite sure
this is due to Japanese people’s misunderstanding of first and second names in
the West. If you introduce yourself as Adrian, they will probably call you
Adrian-san as they may not be sure if it’s your first name or family name.
That’s how their own naming convention works, as you can see by observing how
they introduce themselves. They are not purposely trying to offend you or show
a “lack of disrespect”!

    
    
         “I was stopped many times just walking down a street minding my own business, often surrounded by 3 or more officers who stood within a few feet of me and did their best to be as intimidating as possible. “
    

I was never stopped once in 8 years, nor were any of my many Western friends.
All my dealings with the police were pleasant, they were always respectful and
willing to help me.

    
    
         “Bag searches are common practice “
    

No. They’re not.

    
    
         “a police force that was ordered by 3 time former Tokyo Governor Mr. Ishihara to “regard all foreigners as suspicious”? “
    

Shintaro Ishihara is an extreme right wing, xenophobic lunatic. This is a guy
who also blamed Japanese people for the 2011 earthquake stating, that
“punishment from heaven' because Japanese have become greedy”, and denies that
the Nanjing massacre ever happened. He is unpopular even in Japan and is
hardly a credible data point.

    
    
         “It is not that uncommon, even in Tokyo, to see shops, bars or other establishments with “No foreigners””
    

This is also not true. They do exist, but it is not common. (I would struggle
to think of anywhere in the thousands of place I’ve been to in Tokyo and
greater Japan).

    
    
         “Don’t, for example even get me started on cycling in Tokyo.”
    

Have you tried cycling in Dublin? Or Paris? I think the author is just
searching for things to complain about now.

    
    
         “The level of English in Japan is shockingly low, despite everyone studying it for 6 years at school. I honestly think it is kept deliberately low”
    

This is the quote that actually prompted me to reply, because it is so absurd
and divorced from reality. Does the author actually believe that the Japanese
government would systematically prevent their nation in becoming fluent in
English? Their domestic market is shrinking and so they need their companies
to expand outside Japan if they are to survive at all (just look at the
disasters at Toshiba, Sharp etc.)

On the contrary, METI (i.e. the Japanese government) have actually rolled out
a new program since 2014 to reform the English education system in Japan to
address the poor level of English. Not to mention that Tokyo will host the
Olympics in 2020 and the lack of English will be a national embarrassment if
they don’t get their act together. To suggest that English is “kept
deliberately low” indicates that the author is delusional at best.

Some of the points made by the author are valid, particularly regarding gender
equality and sexual exploitation. Japan has serious issues there that renders
it very outdated and alienated from modern societies.

However during my time living there (and still today as I do business in Japan
regularly), I made lasting friendships and formed incredibly close and rich
relationships with many Japanese people. I’ve attended their weddings and
dined at home with them and their children. I find Japanese people (for the
most part) to be extremely kind, helpful and considerate. Of course there are
some unpleasant and offensive people, but that is no different to any other
country in the world. Therefore I needed to challenge this misinformation, out
of respect for the many Japanese people who have been so good to me over the
years.

I’m surprised that the author lived there for so long, and still came away
with such a distorted and narrow point of view. Overall, this article portrays
years of pent-up frustration and homesickness by the author. I hope that a
break in London will help to see things in a different light.

------
codelord
I had very similar experience during a week long visit. I just wonder why it
took you 10 years to finally decide to leave. 1 month, 2 or may be 6 is
understandable but 10 years?!

------
hellofunk
I really hate articles like this. There is no perfect place to live in the
world. We are all human, and all societies have fundamental problems that
derive from that. There are tradeoffs everywhere. This writer is negative and
spoiled.

Some of my favorites places in the world have problems that really really
annoy me. But the positives outweigh the negatives for _me_ , and everyone
needs to decide what is important to them personally.

To stereotype an entire culture or people like this and focus only on those
things which annoyed the writer is a futile effort to make the world something
that it isn't: perfect.

------
a_bonobo
>If you don’t like it leave

As a (European) foreigner living in Australia, I hear the same sentence when
trying to discuss a problem...

------
chilchil
White guy with asian fetish in Japan and using female pictures to disguise his
blog post? What a loser.

------
sexydefinesher
What is up with the text coloring?

------
ionised
_" And here comes the first of my problems, almost universally in Japan if one
criticizes or wishes to discuss some element of Japanese culture as a
foreigner you are greeted with cries of “Why do you hate Japan?” and “If you
don’t like it leave”. There is precious little room for any discussion and
more often than not an impasse is reached with the statement “This is Japan.
This is how WE do things”._

This isn't exclusive to Japan. I've found English and American people with the
same shitty inability to take criticism.

------
mrkrabo
This sounds akin to people threatening to leave the US if Trump wins. "This
society is not liberal enough so bye". I think part of living in society is
accepting not everybody thinks the way you do.

~~~
CalRobert
Eventually you hit a breaking point when it seems like not _anybody_ thinks
the way you do, and leave.

For me, it was (among other things) hearing colleagues joke about murdering
bicyclists, while I stood there with helmet in hand, having nearly been killed
every morning.

------
ThrowAway29112
...

~~~
EliRivers
_I 'm glad people like him weren't allowed in our country._

What country do you come from that denies entry to people based on how they
translate Japanese signs? You're full of shit. Not surprised you hide behind a
throwaway.

~~~
ThrowAway29112
Are you for real? Go read the article, he knows Japanese. And there's your
civility, acting all indignant and calling people full of shit without
bothering to understand what's going on.

Maybe you are the throwaway of author's?

~~~
EliRivers
Civility? I made no guarantee of civility to you.

I asked you what country you come from that excludes people based on, as you
stated, how they interpret Japanese signs. No such country, as we all know.
You're talking nonsense, and now that you've been called out on it, you're
pretending this is about something else. Look at you now, deleting your
comments _even though you 're using a throwaway_! The whole point of the
throwaway is that nobody can tie it to the person you usually pretend to be,
but you're running away anyway.

Nobody benefits from this; not you, not me, nobody here. God's sake, owning
your beliefs is a necessary step to improving them. Not just in this
situation; always. Here, look, I'll start; I was unnecessarily harsh in my
opening response and could have handled that better. This is an opportunity
for both of us to improve. I didn't consider that you might be Japanese and
that you might feel defensive; it can be hard to critique your own
nation/culture with foreigners (although being from the UK, it's easy for me;
sometimes it would be nice to spend a day without having some new clusterf
from the embarrassing shambles of a UK government and broader population at
large) and perhaps I could have helped you come out of your defensive shell.

~~~
zdkl
Rule #1: bow out of situations bearing risks of public shame.

------
mrkrabo
I can understand, bicyclists are fucking annoying, and most of the time they
are putting themselves and others in danger. For me, the road is no place for
a bicyclist.

And, as you can see, there's no possible debate in the west: you have to have
bicyclists, otherwise you're a backwards asshole. And I have to live with
that, because that's society: you have to deal with people who don't think the
way you do.

(You just have to look at the downvotes to see what I'm talking about ;P)

~~~
brucephillips
Cars kill far more people than bicycles, both absolute and per capita, so if
that's your measure, then the road is no place for cars.

~~~
fleitz
Bicycles are far more dangerous. Even more so that motorcycles, most people
are smart enough to realize that it's the 20 lb bicycle that loses to 4000 lbs
of steel.

Danger is calculated in risk per mile, not per capita / absolute.

I drive a 4Runner because it has lots of steel and is very safe so that when
my kids get into an accident learning to drive they don't die.

~~~
kikimaru
>I drive a 4Runner because it has lots of steel and is very safe

I can't believe I'm seeing this kind of ignorance on HN...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aht7Sc_J4OU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aht7Sc_J4OU)

