
In Defense of Starbucks Squatters - apress
http://anewdomain.net/2013/11/13/mike-elgan-defense-starbucks-squatters-like/
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uhno
I don't have any strong feelings for or against coffee shop campers, but this
article came across as quite self-centered. Perhaps a different approach would
be more effective in changing people's opinions.

The argument against campers: "Starbucks and other coffee-shop campers just
buy one cheap coffee and then take up a table for hours. We drive up the cost
of coffee and inconvenience everybody else. We play loud videos and run our
power cords across the floor, creating a safety hazard."

His argument for campers (in my own words): I'm an intellectual/creative
person; I need to work in a coffee shop because research has shown it to
increase creativity and output; I need to resist the brainwashed masses and
their preconceived notions of acceptable coffee shop behavior.

Notice a theme? It's all about _him_ , whereas the argument against campers is
about _everyone else_. He even complains about being expected to clean up
after himself (bus his own table). Shouldn't people be expected to act
responsibly and clean up after themselves in a public place?

He does attempt to give an economic argument (i.e. coffee shops make more
money from campers versus if they were to be banned). However, this is pure
speculation on his part, and I suspect he is simply stating what he wants to
believe is the truth. For example:

"I'm quite certain that if camping were banned at that store, the place would
be deserted and it would make far less money. In fact, there would be no
reason at all to even stay open until midnight. A huge percentage of its
revenue comes from student squatters."

He has no way of knowing this, offers no supporting evidence beyond
speculation, and simply states it as fact because it supports his view.

~~~
MDCore
I agree with your response, it's pretty much the one I wanted to write!

I would add that I work very often from coffee shops (and restaurants). In my
mind being a good camper is: \- Get to know your server/waitron's name's and
interests \- Become a good "regular". To me that includes not being rude or
impatient. Let the non-regulars go first. If things are getting too busy I'll
move to a smaller table or even leave. Yes you're a customer, but you're also
supporting the staff. \- Buy a meal if you're there for long enough that you
would need to eat. If I'm spending the day I'll get breakfast at home, coffees
at the coffee shop, order lunch, more drinks and head home before the dinner
rush. \- Tip well. This covers a multitude of sins.

Ultimately, let respect for others guide your choices.

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mikeash
I don't understand why this whole topic needs anything said beyond, "How long
any customer can stay at his table is a matter between him and the property
owner."

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Because "you are physically capable of doing something" is not the same as "I
support you doing that thing."

Try applying your attitude to other issues. "How much of your data the NSA
collects is a matter between you and the NSA; public discussion is
unnecessary."

~~~
mikeash
Your support doesn't matter in a transaction between two _private_ entities.

Your comparison to the NSA is wrong because that is a government agency, and
our government is supposedly of, by, and for the people, thus whatever they do
is a matter for all of us.

A table at a coffee shop is not. If the coffee shop wants to let me stay, then
I can stay. If they want me to leave, then I must go. And that is all that
needs to be said, as far as I can tell.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Okay. How about: "If Facebook wants to reverse your user privacy settings
without warning, that's a matter between you and Facebook."

"If the RIAA wants to DMCA your YouTube video because there was a copyrighted
song playing on a radio in the background, that's between you and the RIAA."

"If Microsoft/EA/Sony/everyone else wants to modify their terms of service to
prevent you from suing them for any reason, and require you to agree to those
terms to continue using goods and services you've already paid for, that's
between you and <insert major tech company here>."

Vigorous public debate on corporate policy is clearly in the public interest,
whether the issue is big or small. What's so difficult to understand about
that?

~~~
mikeash
Better, but still not quite there IMO.

The Facebook example involves third parties in the form of the people who get
to see your previously private info. It's not just between you and Facebook.

Likewise, the RIAA example involves a third party in the form of YouTube.

Finally, the MS/EA/Sony example involves a third party in the form of the
courts.

Ironically, I think your last two examples are a near- _perfect_ fit for the
people trying to argue about coffee shop squatters. They're taking what should
be a private interaction between two private entities and attempting to butt
in to control that interaction in a way that suits them, much like the
hypothetical RIAA is trying to control your interaction with YouTube, or the
hypothetical MS/EA/Sony is trying to control your interaction with the courts.

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aestra
I never understood so called Starbucks Squatters. The local public library is
a free resource that is specifically set up for work and study. I spent many
hours there when I was a student, well at the school library. It allowed me to
focus on my work more. Also how can Starbucks be surprised at this behavior, I
think they practically encouraged it by putting in the wifi.

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robomartin
For about a year I had a kayak on top of my car every day. I'd start my day by
going to the lake, kayaking to the middle and then floating freely while doing
my work and having breakfast. I don't think I have ever been as productive per
unit time as when I did that. Coffee shops can't even begin to compare.

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rcavezza
I understand his point about the ambient noise. I think more people need to
hear about [http://coffitivity.com/](http://coffitivity.com/) . I use it from
time to time when coding and I think its helpful.

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sejje
Libraries and bars are two great alternatives, fwiw.

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michaelochurch
Did you just "Kleenex" Starbucks?

Starbucks has the wrong ambience for squatting, probably partially by design.
Go independent, seriously.

