
Faxing is growing in popularity - JSeymourATL
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/faxing-is-old-tech-so-why-is-it-also-growing-in-popularity/2019/03/08/d01c638a-2f0b-11e9-86ab-5d02109aeb01_story.html
======
Animats
The intelligence community has been intercepting faxes for decades.[1] It's
not very secure. Even worse, VoIP systems recognize fax modem signals, decode
them, transmit them as data, and re-encode them as fax modem signals.[2] They
have to; VoIP has such awful jitter and bandwidth that you can't send modem
signals over it. So it's easy to peel off the fax data and log it. This is
done routinely using fax servers.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#The_Onyx-
intercepte...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#The_Onyx-
intercepted_fax)

[2]
[https://www.dialogic.com/-/media/products/docs/whitepapers/1...](https://www.dialogic.com/-/media/products/docs/whitepapers/11148-reliable-
fax-voip-wp.pdf)

~~~
reaperducer
How secure do I need my restaurant take-out order to be?

~~~
tim333
>By one private firm’s estimate, the fax accounts for about 75 percent of all
medical communication

[https://www.vox.com/health-
care/2017/10/30/16228054/american...](https://www.vox.com/health-
care/2017/10/30/16228054/american-medical-system-fax-machines-why)

~~~
Trisell
This is because fax is still considered by HIPAA to be a secure method of
transferring patient information. Where email is unencrypted and this
considered to be insecure.

------
newhotelowner
Every single hotel that caters corporate clients in the USA still uses fax. We
don't get reservations through fax, but that is the best way to get credit
card authorization. A lot of corporate booking systems are automated to send
out Fax for credit card authorization after they book the room online.

Also, it's much better for our Front desk staff, as they don't have to
constantly check the email. There is only 1 fax number, and anyone can send
out the fax and whoever is working at the front desk gets a printed copy
without doing anything.

I really wish there is a modern alternative to FAX.

Edit: What I mean by a modern alternative to Fax is that the sender can send
high-resolution color documents without going through multiple steps. Scan
documents to a computer, convert to PDF, Send an email with an attachment,
Check email periodically, Print Email.

I have converted most of our documents to digital forms, and sync to all
computers. Yet all my employees rather copy documents as they think its much
faster and convenient. They will make 100s of copies of the document.

We accept all documents through email or fax. Last week we received an email
with a one-page contract that was broken into 4 images. We asked to send it
again and they rescanned and send it again the same way. I used a word to
print 4 images into one page and call it a day.

~~~
wutbrodo
> I really wish there is a modern alternative to FAX

What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code? (Or if you prefer,
a lightweight piece of software that does the same thing). It seems like that
covers all the cases you describe: automatically prints, don't have to check
it, you can have only one email, etc. I mean the fact that some other parties
are stuck on a legacy system is of course always a good reason, but that's not
really a lack of a modern alternative.

~~~
DanBC
> What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code?

Medical use: I call someone to tell them to expect a fax. I send the fax. I
call the person and ask if they got the fax.

When sending the fax I hit the button and hear a dial tone. I know my machine
is connected to the exchange. I dial the number and hear the ring tone. I know
the recipient's machine is connected to the exchange. I hear their machine
pickup and negotiate with mine. I know our machines are connected. My fax goes
through. If it doesn't go through I get an error. If it doesn't go through on
the recipient's machine I get an error.

You don't need this for a hotel booking.

You do need this if your patient is suicidal and plans to end their life and
you're making a referral to a crisis team.

Unfortunately, many places do not use real fax machines plugged into POTS.
They use virtual fax machines which do goodness-knows-what over the Internet.
So, we get the drawbacks of fax combined with the unknown status of Internet.

It's a real mess. There's a huge amount of money (in the UK NHS) to be made
with a better replacement.

~~~
nl
In many parts of the world they use WhatsApp for he equivalent workflow in
multiple domains.

That little green tick when someone reads your message is a surprisingly
critical part of the workflow.

------
tracker1
It comes down to convenience and ease of use... put your pages in, enter a
phone number, hit send. Verses scanning pages using a computer, compositing
into a PDF, or otherwise emailing loose pages... and since network monitoring
is more likely than phone taps (except the govt) may be more secure fax to fax
over pots.

It's more a matter of ergonomics. I've also used fancier systems that scan to
pdf and email or drop location internally, then you have to email the document
out. Frankly, faxing direct is usually far easier.

~~~
basch
You pay for this in data entry. Sending pages, means that someone has to
retype the data into a database compared to sending it in some kind of data
structure that can be imported. Or worse the data doesnt get entered, and it
ends up in a filing cabinet.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>Or worse the data doesnt get entered, and it ends up in a filing cabinet.

God forbid that data not be vacuumed up never to be seen again except by the
advertisers. /s

A file cabinet in the back office probably handles most people's use cases for
documents they receive by fax 90% as well as any digital solution with a heck
of a lot less effort.

~~~
basch
In the context of medical records, as a patient, id like to be able to
download and transport my records without an office needing to pull out paper
and copy it for me.

~~~
fiddlerwoaroof
They can always scan them and send you the image.

~~~
basch
So instead of me making a call to a database, a human has to be involved
before I get my data.

~~~
fiddlerwoaroof
There's no reason they have to store the faxed doucments in paper form
(except, possibly, for questions of authenticity but, even then, they could
also save a digital version of every fax they receive)

------
submeta
Interestingly I started using a web based Fax solution in Germany two years
ago when I realized that Doctor‘s offices won‘t answer the phone anymore
whenever I wanted to get an appointment. Good Doctors are drowning in emails
requesting an appointment. And their phones are ringing from nine to five, so
its super hard to get through. Sometimes I was on hold for half an hour witout
success. Even though I am able to afford the most expensive Doctors I would
not get a chance to make an appointment! So phone won‘t work, neither would
they reply to emails, generally. Then I realized that all of them have Fax
machines! For various (legacy and regulatory) reasons. When I started
requesting an appoitment or a callback via Fax I was delighted to see that
they would reply almost immediately!

So now whenever I need to get in contact with a Doctor‘s office in Germany or
public authorities, I don’t even try to call, but send a Fax immediately.

------
mtmail
The study
([https://www.opentext.com/file_source/OpenText/en_US/PDF/open...](https://www.opentext.com/file_source/OpenText/en_US/PDF/opentext-
idc-survey-fax-market-pulse%20-en.pdf)) as sponsored by OpenText
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenText](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenText))
It shows growing fax usage in the segment of large companies. At the same time
need for integrating fax into other systems and cloud. It sound more like
OpenText will use the finding (and list of companies surveyed) in their sales
process.

------
sigi45
Germany 2018: oohh you like to cancel your online account for our service? Her
is our fax number: 0FUCK / YOU

Yes I send one fax per year for most stupid reasons.

Like: hey I have to send more documents to my state for taxes which I
originally sent digitally through there secured service page: yes no problem
here is our fax number...

------
mywittyname
> What happened was that competing companies deliberately created incompatible
> systems. Doctors’ offices and hospitals that use different records databases
> can’t communicate with each other digitally — but they can via fax.

I cannot imagine why people prefer an established, well-documented, open
exchange format over some closed, proprietary, and probably obfuscated one.

~~~
nradov
Direct Project secure messaging is an established, well-documented, open
exchange format that works over SMTP. It is specifically designed to replace
faxing for the healthcare industry.

[http://wiki.directproject.org/](http://wiki.directproject.org/)

------
miki123211
The implications of that to accessibility are atrocious. I had a blind friend
who lived outside US and had to deal with english faxes once. That was a
nightmare, both in the financial and accessibility sense. If everyone just
used email...

------
JohnFen
Faxing provides some advantages that can't be easily matched by competing
communications tech: it's solid tech that works well, it can operate without
requiring access to a computer network, it's cheap, it's dead easy to use,
etc.

I'm not surprised to hear that it is growing in popularity. I think that we'll
find an increasing number of other "antique" technologies that will find a
resurgence for the same reasons.

~~~
YeahSureWhyNot
im not sure about dead easy to use? i have figured out how to use all the tech
devices including old school iptv cameras, smart cash registers and connecting
thermal receipt printers but the fax machine is absolutely the shittiest
gadget i have had to deal with in my life despite being shown how to operate
it multiple times.

~~~
wolrah
The people who say faxes are easier than email are like the old mechanics who
complain about how EFI is complicated and carbs were so much simpler.

It's not actually any better, just a lot of people learned how to use it 20
years ago and don't want to learn anything new because they're wastes of
space.

~~~
JohnFen
This is just not true as a blanket statement. I am as cutting-edge tech-wise
as anybody (it is my industry, after all), but that doesn't blind me to the
fact that there do, in fact, exist use cases for which the fax is the best
solution.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Everyone has a camera on a device that can send emails. Unless the internet
went down and for some reason the phone system still worked, I can't think of
any scenario where fax is better than emailing photos.

~~~
barkingtoad
The fax protocol includes a strong "read receipt" type mechanism that the
machines can't ignore. "Did you get the last page?" "Yes, no bad lines."

Legally, this is interesting because it doesn't exist in email. You had the
machines agree that the complete document was sent and was received. You will
certainly find that it other transfer protocols, but not email, where the
machines don't talk to each other directly.

------
argd678
The IRS also only accepts faxes for sending documents directly to an agent. If
you have a fax machine maybe it’s secure, but the internet services are very
shady and using a local store I’m still concerned the machines store the
documents in memory after sending them (not 100% sure if that’s the case but I
see no reason for the manufacturers to care to wipe them).

------
giarc
I work in healthcare and in my office we likely receive 100-200 pages of faxes
everyday. Every single microbiology report in my large urban hospital prints
out (including preliminary results. This includes a cover page for every
single fax. It's a huge waste of paper. Luckily we are moving to Epic and all
results will come through that system instead.

~~~
shliachtx
> Luckily we are moving to Epic

This may be the first time those words were used together in a sentence.

~~~
giarc
I work in Alberta and we have 5 distinct health care regions although we all
work under one umbrella organization. All regions use different EMR systems,
some regions and major hospitals are still not currently using any system, and
all orders are written by hand. So an opinion on Epic as an EMR is perhaps
minor compared to EMR vs hand written systems.

~~~
shliachtx
Of course. It is definitely exciting to have a computerized system. I just
found it somewhat amusing considering Epic's reputation.

~~~
giarc
What is Epic's reputation? It's coming with pretty big fanfare here in
Alberta.

------
lcnmrn
As long people uses faxes as printers with an attached email address I don't
see them disappear anytime soon.

~~~
degenerate
Faxing is to email as VoIP is to the PSTN

Until we can get over the threshold of assuming nobody has a fax machine
anymore, faxing is here to stay. Once we push that threshold, the remaining
users can be forced out (by not having fax as an option, and faxing will
fizzle away over time).

Think of it like supporting IE6. A lot of the holdouts for IE6 were large
health care organizations and VA/gov centers... the same exact places still
holding onto fax.

~~~
shados
Faxing is a headache for a lot of people. The problem is that the industries
that use fax are in a position to force it on others. Certain healthcare
departments, some mortgage related stuff, financial garbage, etc. Places where
if you HAVE to do business with that entity for some reason, and the say "fax
this to us", you're stuck hunting down a fax machine or using an online
service. They thus have no reason to change.

~~~
JohnFen
> Places where if you HAVE to do business with that entity for some reason,
> and the say "fax this to us", you're stuck hunting down a fax machine

I just head to the local copy center when I'm forced to send (or receive) a
fax, so for me "fax this to us" means "pay an extra $2 for no good reason".

------
United857
I'm guessing part of the appeal is the simplicity. At its purest, faxing is
point-to-point, and unlike email doesn't need any servers/other infra (read:
potential points of failure) beyond the telephone system itself.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Are phone systems more resilient than internet and email protocols? A phone
number relies on a single vendor, whereas internet and email can be accessed
through a variety of vendors, and MX records can be changed by the user. If
the power goes out, I can still use email via wireless providers, or I can go
to a different location and use it.

~~~
conanbatt
> Are phone systems more resilient than internet and email protocols?

When was it the last time a land-line had an interruption of service. I can't
even recall it happening to me.

------
adulau
Talking about FAX machines, Hack.lu 2018: What The Fax?! - Eyal Itkin and
Yaniv Balmas

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aahHbliwfm0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aahHbliwfm0)

------
knob
This hits close to home.

Anybody has thought of sending faxes with QR codes? Receiving systems that
have the ability can get the fax's information quickly via QR code, instead of
having to OCR the fax. If the system doesn't support the capability, it's just
ignored (by the fax machine and humans).

Might be helpful.

~~~
conanbatt
Already exists. Not a silver bullet. Each place has to transform the incoming
fax format into their own emr format.

------
jak92
People think it's secure, but it's worse now than ever since many faxes are
now emailed as PDFs

------
amaccuish
You need to look at countries like Estonia with strong cryptographic
signatures for how to effectively move away from faxes (I believe
crpytographic signatures are far better than "digital signatures", i.e. a jpg
of your handwriting)

------
gumby
You read it here first: Faxing is the new Vinyl.

(Seriously: I like how it talked about fax being more secure than email while
also talking about computer-based fax services.)

------
robbrit
It's been so long since I've heard about faxing that reading the headline I
thought "Faxing" was some fancy new tech that all the kids are playing with.

------
shmerl
_> What happened was that competing companies deliberately created
incompatible systems. Doctors’ offices and hospitals that use different
records databases can’t communicate with each other digitally — but they can
via fax._

Yeah, that's a common failure, which impedes progress. Anti-competitive NIH
and lock-in. And indeed, bad players usually fall in line only when they have
no choice.

------
dwd
Some countries never moved away from the fax: Japan and Israel in particular.

For legal documents that have to be sent in a timely manner and give you a
verifiable receipt of delivery, you need to go with a fax rather than email.

Your fax isn't going to disappear without a trace due your email server not
being reputable enough or looking like spam, or exceeding your delivery rate.

------
grumpy-cowboy
Fax machine -> fax machine : secure

And fax machines are easy to use.

Securing document exchange by email is a PITA for 99.9% users. Explain to your
mother how to use PGP/GPG to encrypt the email she have to send to financial
institutions, government, ... And imagine the government employee receiving
the encrypted email. He will probably just delete it. :)

~~~
jak92
Well, completely unencrypted, but depends on what you consider the threat to
be.

~~~
pintxo
I feel with you. I was shocked to learn that fax is still the default for
Doctor 2 Doctor communication here in Germany.

Turns out the reason is rather simple: the law explicitly requires phone lines
to be confidential in terms of eavesdropping. (You need a warrant, else it‘s
illegal). While all other means of transport are not covered by this. So
everyone who wants to legally cover his ass, would rather use the legally
privileged, but technically wide open phone line over technically sound
solutions missing such a legal framework.

~~~
JohnFen
> the law explicitly requires phone lines to be confidential in terms of
> eavesdropping

However, POTS these days commonly uses VoIP as an intermediary. I don't know
if the law covers the same phone call during its passage through a VoIP
segment.

~~~
pintxo
As I understand the law here in Germany, it's technology independent. So VoIP
falls under the same rules, as long as you sell/market phone and fax services.
How this relates to something like Skype I have no idea.

------
gamblor956
One of my former clients was eFax, which parlayed the money it earned from
eFax subscriptions into becoming a publicly-traded internet holding company
behemoth. They own dozens of second-tier internet media and
e-telecommunications sites.

There's a lot of money in fax.

------
analog31
If you have a number that can receive fax, then getting stuff into a format
that you can use becomes the sender's problem.

------
jngreenlee
IT's a 0-trust system!

------
ArtDev
faxzero.com is awesome. Free for the sender.

