
Picardy Third - tintinnabula
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picardy_third
======
jessriedel
Tangent: Why does Wikipedia use a sound plug-in that doesn't tell you how long
the sound clip is, nor allow you to drag a slider to move through the sound
clip? This sort of decrepit UI (and the community's willingness to deal with
it in perpetuity) gives open-source software a bad name.

And just look at the hideous stuff that pops up when you click "menu". It's an
embarrassment.

~~~
baddox
There's really no such thing as "the community's willingness to deal with it."
You're dealing with it, because you're not fixing it. I'm dealing with it,
because I'm not fixing it. And that is true of every other individual, until
one individual fixes it.

~~~
jessriedel
I do think there is such a thing as "the community's willingness to deal with
it", and that rather than my statement being meaningless/confused, your
objection is really a _normative_ claim about who should be able to complain.
But if it helps you understand, you can reinterpret my comment as:

(1) All the effort people put into collecting copyright-free sound files is
drastically undermined by the lack of nice plug-ins; and

(2) The Wikimedia foundation, which collects huge amounts of money from
unsophisticated donors, is negligent in spending that money on ridiculous
projects that help only a small number of particular types of nerds while
leaving things like this that could actually help the typical donor broken.

In other words, when I donate money to the Wikimedia foundation and they don't
fix easy stuff like this, I _am_ justified in complaining.

~~~
svnpenn
No, you certainly are not. You're donating money, not employing them. _They_
get to choose what to do with the money, not you.

If you don't like it, stop donating. Or better yet, write a patch, or email
them suggestion for a better player. I agree with your original point, but you
lost me with this second post.

~~~
jessriedel
Non-profits absolutely have duties to their donors when they accept money.
They don't get to spend it on whatever they want. And those duties are
especially strong when they take money for a technical job from non-
technically-sophisticated donors.

Finally, those duties are even stronger when the non-profit is the steward of
a non-replaceable community commons; there is no way to donate to a Wikimedia
Foundation competitor to improve Wikipedia.

> If you don't like it, stop donating

Think about what you're saying. People can't complain unless they donate, but
if they don't like what's happening they should not donate. That sort of
reasoning is how you get non-accountable dysfunctional non-profits.

> Or better yet, write a patch, or email them suggestion for a better player.

I can't write a patch. It's not in my abilities.

Write them an email? That isn't a serious suggestion, because you know it
would accomplish nothing. That's not where these conversations take place.

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svnpenn
> I can't write a patch. It's not in my abilities.

> Write them an email? That isn't a serious suggestion, because you know it
> would accomplish nothing. That's not where these conversations take place.

It sounds like you arent really interested in seeing this fixed.

Sometimes, when you want something fixed, merely complaining or commenting to
the right person will get it resolved. Sometimes more effort is required. You
are right, an email might not get you the result you want.

But have you tried? If you havent even tried _an email_ I dont think you have
the right to complain. You havent made even the smallest effort to
constructively advocate or try to resolve the issue. Once youve done that, you
have a better case.

~~~
jessriedel
I don't know why my technical inability to submit patches for audio plugins is
evidence I don't really want to see this fixed. I am not a software developer.

There is zero chance that they are unaware of this issue. So the question is,
first, what is the best way to communicate dissatisfaction? And I don't think
emails directly to the Wikimedia foundation are effective (and I don't think
you think that either).

More importantly, I'm claiming that the Wikimedia foundation, and the
Wikipedia community, are negligent regardless of what I personally do. It's
beyond obvious to anyone who has thought a wink about UX that this stuff is
crap. "We haven't gotten enough emails about it to divert resources from Wiki-
con-for-Slovokian-teenagers" is not a plausible defense.

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organsnyder
My wife and I are both musicians. Playing a Picardy third is a quick way for
me to get asked to sleep on the couch (only exaggerating slightly).

I love using a Picardy third when accompanying sung music and the text
demands/suggests it. An open fifth is also a good tool for emphasizing certain
texts. Just like other strong effects (deceptive cadences, modulations...)
it's best effective when used sparingly.

~~~
rectang
Next time you're feeling mischievous, try an "anti-Picardy third": end a major
key piece (e.g. Pachelbel's Canon, US National Anthem, Silent Night, Happy
Birthday...) with a minor chord.

~~~
senderista
When I was a kid I enjoyed annoying my parents by transposing random major-key
songs into minor. I used to love doing this to "Joy to the World," among
others, only to find later that the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society had the
same idea:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptP0OR-e7rI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptP0OR-e7rI).

~~~
gammarator
My favorite version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is in a major key:
[https://youtu.be/dVehv_LDWaE](https://youtu.be/dVehv_LDWaE)

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baddox
This video has some good examples from popular music:

[https://youtu.be/jGaNdKabvQ4](https://youtu.be/jGaNdKabvQ4)

~~~
polygotdomain
This is a very good channel if you're looking for explanation of topics within
music theory with examples from popular music. I've found David's videos
explaining key changes, time signature shifts, and modes very helpful.

~~~
sandov
+1 to David's channel. You don't even need to know theory to enjoy his videos.

My music knowledge is limited to building major and minor triads (maybe adding
a seventh here and there) and I still enjoy his videos.

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jlarcombe
I sometimes help my children with their piano practice when they're learning
hands separately by doing the other hand, and I find it almost impossible to
resist adding a Picardy third at the poignant ending of any piece in a minor
key... much to their amusement/annoyance.

~~~
hunter2_
I always did react to the Picardy third with a bit of an eye roll, as one does
to dad jokes, so you're onto something there.

~~~
jlarcombe
The other favourite, of which I never seem to tire, is a quick "shave and a
haircut, two bits" over the dying notes...

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stanferder
It's like the opposite of a "millennial whoop", major-izing a minor chord
instead of emphasizing the minor interval in a major chord, only more drastic
because of the key change.

~~~
logicallee
For anyone else wondering, this is the "millennial whoop":

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN23lFKfpck](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN23lFKfpck)

(the first 3-5 seconds let you know right away)

~~~
loco5niner
Yikes. Not sure how much of that video is nearly-naked woman, but the split-
second I had it up at work didn't make me a fan.

perhaps a NSFW tag?

~~~
js2
It’s only the first second of Katy Perry at the start of the video. This link
should skip over that bit:

[https://youtu.be/MN23lFKfpck?t=4](https://youtu.be/MN23lFKfpck?t=4)

~~~
loco5niner
Thx for the update. I only had it up for a split-second and shut it right
down.

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jancsika
Don't raise that third. Hold it there in the final chord and let it ring.

As you do, say this:

"He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector."

Now shift the chord down by thirds (tonally) to play a lushly spaced,
unexpected major triad.

Then say this:

"A Dark Knight."

And finally, play the chord again loudly.

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microtherion
In contemporary music, I'm very fond of a somewhat similar device that
Krzysztof Penderecki used at the ending of "Stabat Mater":

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f403XsOAFXE&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f403XsOAFXE&feature=youtu.be&t=480)

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minism
Two of my closest friends (who are much better musicians than me) and I get
together occasionally to jam. It's become a running inside joke at this point
that invariably someone will end the jam with a Picardy third. It's so
saccharine and absurd sounding. I love it.

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Jeff_Brown
It reminds me of the deus ex machina from theater[1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina)

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tomconnors
A Picardy third can be heard at the end of Avengers Infinity War as Thanos
watches the sun rise on a grateful universe.

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senderista
I always enjoy the rare moments when Bach _doesn 't_ use a Picardy third. Only
a few of the minor-key pieces in the Well-Tempered Clavier, for instance, end
with a minor chord. Personally, I wish Bach had mostly avoided it except in a
religious context (I think it sounds best with a choir or an organ).

~~~
toomuchlove
The Wikipedia article claims that in Book II a decent number of the minor-key
pieces end with a minor triad, a departure from only a small minority of them
ending that way in Book I.

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toomuchlove
Pretty shifty counterpoint in that example =)

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federalemployee
TIL no one knows why it is called a Picardy Third.

