
Ask HN: I make $30k/month thanks to Bitcoin. What should I do? - anon84835
I am not here for boasting, but my question is purposefully meant to be provocative.<p>I used to be one of the biggest Bitcoin miners, back when the difficulty level was low enough that CPU mining was the norm. These days people mine with video cards but I am mostly out of the game...<p>Anyway, I have accumulated enough Bitcoins (73k BTC) and the exchange rate has skyrocketed so much ($27/BTC as I am typing) that I am currently selling on a daily basis as many as possible via MtGox. They have a limit of $1000/day, so I am effectively making $30k/month. (I do plan to report this income to the IRS and am about to hire a tax accountant.)<p>But the question I have asked myself is: what should I do with that money? Or what would you do if you were in my situation? I am a typical geek with a successful technical career: well-paid Senior Developer position, as an H1B visa holder, working for a large US company. I enjoy my job, but to be truthful I have always wanted to found a startup. However, as an H1B holder, I cannot start a company in the US.<p>If I quit my job I will be bored and run out of money after a few years.<p>If I return to my home country to found the startup I will regret the opportunities I may have in the US.<p>If I keep my current job I will regret the opportunities of not starting a startup today.
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_arturh
Keep cashing out until you have enough BTC to fund your start-up, don't act as
if you had a million dollars, because you still don't have them.

It's hard not to have ideas for startups based on Bitcoins honestly.

You may be interested in putting some of the money you are making into
ensuring Bitcoin is a success. For example, at the moment I think that MtGox
predominance in the market is a bad thing for the future of Bitcoin.

Also, don't give BTC to people who just ask for them, like me:
1BNbVQBhfb8G4yG81bbcXWQmt7uDLrVrk3

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etherael
If I were in your shoes, I'd hold a rolling percentage based on market
performance and cash out via alternate channels than just MtGox 1k USD limits,
you can likely find some reliable channels for conversion into alternate
stores of value. I believe the #bitcoin-otc channel on freenode has
cryptographically signed rep tracking systems for the market participants
there, and if you can provide btc they probably would be only too happy to
accommodate your desire to liquidate to a less volatile store of value.

When you finally have your wealth sorted, enter negotiations with your
employer from a position of strength. If you really do actually like your job
and think what you're doing is important, maybe see if you can roll some
wealth into the business as an investor as well as an employee providing
yourself with a motivation boost in performance in the process. If you don't
like your job perhaps negotiating better conditions or conditions more suited
to pursuing your own business interests is a better path.

With your experience in the bitcoin markets you might also be in a position to
simply finance a really good bitcoin focused startup. I had an idea that I was
going to try for myself but turns out I don't have the capital necessary to do
so, so you're welcome to it if you like;

Create a superfluid buying agent consisting of two components, a basic
exchange service like MtGox that cashes btc to a fiat currency on the backend,
and frontend merchant widgets that update a given fiat currency price
displayed in BTC to the actual user. This would give your users the ability to
shop on any traditional internet shopping site and pay with btc transparently,
you would assumedly implement the dynamic pricing in btc using a browser
plugin of some description.

Further automate your trades so if the market is rising you hold btc, if it's
falling you instantly liquidate to fiat for your received btc. It turns out to
be basically a transparent way to accrue more btc in an upwards moving market
and act as a fee charging instant electronic funds transfer provider in a
downwards moving market. The dynamic pricing protects you from the volatility
in the exchange rates.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck, and congratulations on spotting an early
opportunity.

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senjutsuka
I would suggest finding a start up you like or other partners in whatever your
interests are and then investing in them through phatom shares (consult a
lawyer, its a fairly new construct).

You mentioned wanting to start a company with the money so find co-founders.
From there create an operating agreement and register the company in a legal
way that you can be an employee and owner (Inc, c-Corp etc). Obviously you
will need to get a lawyer to do the appropriate wrangling but there are many
ways to do this. Phantom shares, options etc.

Alternatively, you could do what one multi-national investor I know did and
turn yourself into a company and sell shares of yourself to other investors.
From there you can start up subsidiaries in whatever country through whatever
standard private company (Inc, C-Corp) legal forms are permissible for a
multinational to set up subsidiaries. Again consult appropriate lawyers, but I
do know it is possible. This guy runs investment firms in India and America
and has companies that run all over the place. It is possible when you have
the money to do it. And if you want to create value its a good way to go if
you find you have a nose for investments/opportunities.

Best of luck and congratulations on your new found wealth.

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bhickey
For 5%, I'll dump $1,000/day on MtGox and send you the balance. Feel free to
e-mail me.

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jimrandomh
I believe you can cash out faster than that, if you go through an identity
verification procedure, but I don't know the details. Send the MtGox
administrators an inquiry.

You are now at the point of having no need to work, ever again, as long as you
don't squander your wealth. Your first priority is to enjoy life - do whatever
you enjoy most, without regard for whether it pays. If you'd rather have your
current job than have an equal amount of free time, keep it. On the other
hand, you can fit a lot of hobbies and socializing into the time a day job
would have taken. Whatever you do, don't sit idle, that's less fun than you'd
think.

You can probably find a way to found a startup in spite of your visa status;
talk to a lawyer, you can afford it. Depending on what skills you have, there
are a lot of nonprofits that would love to have you - and one great thing
about volunteering is that, unlike working for money, it doesn't have to come
with obligations or time commitments if you don't want them. Visiting the
Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence (singinst.org) would
probably be a great use of your time.

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calebhicks
If you want to maintain your wealth... I'd suggest cashing out as fast as you
can.

Sure, things may go well and prices may rise more. But it's only a matter of
time before governments start going after BitCoin.

Oh, wait. That started yesterday:
[http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/08/government-crackdown-on-
bi...](http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/08/government-crackdown-on-bitcoin/)

------
drtse4
I just watched some chart on bitcoincharts.com and considering what happened
in june price-wise i'd suggest you to convert them in $ ASAP :) (lot of
suggestions on alternative channels here).

Regarding the startup, money is not an issue, why not go back to your country
for a while and then come back to the US opening your startup with an e-2 visa
($50000 minimum investment and if you want you can also be an employee
somewhere else, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa>) (IANAL)?

I read something about this visa somewhere, if it really works as it seems it
could be perfect for you. The immigration layer someone else recommended
should be able to assist with this. Good luck, btw.

(Quite funny that nearly everyone is posting his bitcoin address, guys, it's
time to buy some GPUs :D) (or ... what come next in bitcoin mining?
memristors?)

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dedward
While none of us can predict the future - I think it would be silly at this
point to think of BTC as anything but a fairly high-risk investment right now.
Assuming you can live off this for years and not work is a very dangerous
assumption. I'm not knocking on bitcoin - I think it has great potential, and
some interesting things are going to happen - it's a game changer - but you
need to think more near term.

Given the current values (and remember, i'ts a market) - figure out the best
way to dump it on a schedule - faster than you are now, and the tax
implications.

Then, just figure out what that unexpected money means to you and your life -
nobody else can tell you that.

Me, personally (and I'm not you, probably not your age, etc) I'd just stick it
all in the bank and keep on trucking for a while, knowing I have an awesome
cushion of cash in the bank.

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rms
You have more options! I think you should probably keep your job for a while
with the plan to start a startup in the USA as soon as you have your visa
issues sorted out or find a hot fiancée. At the current rate, you can easily
have the beyond $1MM net worth where a good immigration lawyer can just make
your startup visa issues easily ok. Plan on doing exactly what you want to do
and live the life you want to live! Feel free to email me off-site.

Can you spare some Bitcents for this non-profit I volunteer for? Maybe you can
find an accountant that thinks anonymous Bitcoin donations are tax deductible.
:D

1NsFNk9nq8h5XnzHLdwLL7ysK63F69NJt4

<http://singinst.org/donate/>

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dgudkov
>If I quit my job I will be bored and run out of money after a few years. >If
I return to my home country to found the startup I will regret the
opportunities I may have in the US. >If I keep my current job I will regret
the opportunities of not starting a startup today.

First, you should decide what you want. What you _really_ want. It may take
weeks, months and even years, but there is no other way if you want to live
your life without regret.

Don't ask others what should you do with money. Spend them on your goal. Your
goal, not others goal.

------
sentinel
Maybe this will help: [http://k9ventures.com/blog/2009/09/24/my-story-and-
support-f...](http://k9ventures.com/blog/2009/09/24/my-story-and-support-for-
the-founders-visa/)

And, always good to contact an immigration lawyer to know exactly what you are
legally allowed to do (I guess you can afford one now).

There was another thing I was reading about a while ago (but no sure what the
case is with that), which states that you can get a special visa if you open
up your own company (as an immigrant) which hires more than 5 people.

------
praxeologist
Like someone said, you can find people to buy BTC with Dwolla in the #bitcoin-
otc channel on freenode. The order book doesn't show much now but you might
still find people there willing to buy if you want more cash sooner and more
safely than paypal.

Do you have an idea you are set on? I am kicking myself today because I sold
most of my few hundred bitcoins right before the market went nuts. I would
love to have a technical cofounder and/or a small amount of seed money if you
would consider me.

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drcross
I think to really discuss this you should send me enough coins to get a return
flight to hang out with you for a while, I'm an awesome guy and totally fun to
hang out with. The first step is to party hard for a few days then we can
settle down and talk about all the concepts I have in mind, of which there are
many. I'm sure that within 5 days we can have some completely bullet proof
ideas nailed down! :) 1Nv3ovJQJ3xnNkJUiLBdVW1LmLszoxYJe5

~~~
drcross
If you don't decide to send me a load of bitcoins I will say that you should
consider investing in robotics startups. It's a burgeoning industry which has
a lot of growth projections and great social paybacks too.

------
anon84835
To clarify, I don't actually think I will eventually run out of Bitcoin
wealth, as I expect their value to keep increasing (unless Bitcoin crashes).

I am simply cashing out as fast as I can, in the short term, in order to
diversify my wealth across BTC and USD to spread risk. I own the equivalent of
$2 million in Bitcoins, so I would probably want to sell a quarter or a third
of that.

~~~
2weiX
sell me.

send me 20 BTC to 172LLtd45L9AunPJBWWsf3D15UeqMidqxZ and I will paypal you
538$ right now.

~~~
anon84835
Honestly, it is too much hassle to deal with individual sales, making sure the
guy is not a PayPal scammer, etc. Selling in a mostly automated way via MtGox
is just fine for me.

~~~
2weiX
that's too bad. fwiw, i AM legit.

it's just that i am sitting in .de and my bank wont let me transfer € to mtgox
(been trying sine BTC was at 11, sniff).

worth a try, i guess. let me know if you change your mind, i would greatly!
appreciate and pledge a 0,1BTC donation to bitcoinfaucet if you do^^

shameless plug [or you could just buy some gold:
<http://bitcoincommodities.wordpress.com>] /shameless plug

------
KyleReese
I wanted to buy bitcoins last week when the rate was 9,5 $ I did a transaction
to MtGox via my bank, and today, 8 days later, the payment still hasn't been
processed, my bank usually takes 10 days apparently. But today the price has
soared to 26 $ I was planning to buy 25 BTC, but now I probably can't do that
anymore.

If you feel generous, 1Mgem1HSyeigrzaBajR3RHnC3qXUQd2LLs :-)

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adrianwaj
Well done!!

I am looking at raising some funds to develop this idea:

[http://www.bitrific.com/2011/05/summery-simple-startup-
idea-...](http://www.bitrific.com/2011/05/summery-simple-startup-idea-
employing.html)

"for webmasters and writers to collect and present summaries of articles to
help solve the 'tl;dr' problem"

Does it interest you?

------
nuala
Blow and hookers.

Seriously though, I'd just cash out and keep your job. I'd also freeze around
80% of the money, so that you're not tempted to spend it all at once but still
have play money. Have you attempted to get American citizenry? That would
straighten out the main tangle there.

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ComputerGuru
You _could_ make a donation to existing startups that make free software, such
as 1NcfPAHFnkvfgXi5avF3pHDbT7FT85K4zb

(Taken from <http://neosmart.net/donations.php>)

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2weiX
well.. if you'd like to get rid of them faster, sell me some (20 BTCs, or so)
via PayPal. maybe I can get one of my US friends to direct transfer. being
serious, as noone else seems to be selling and i cant access mtgox. if you'd
like, contact me on BTCcommodities@googlemail.com

that said, i'd prolly cash out half and start a mining pool. get a
garage/basement, invest 10k in some serious GPU shit and get at it. with the
prices continuing to go up, you should come out ahead.

~~~
paraschopra
Do you realize that " get a garage/basement, invest 10k in some serious GPU
shit and get at it. with the prices continuing to go up, you should come out
ahead." is not real value creation and goes in face of Economics 101? If
people can make money out of nothing, I'd say it is a bubble which will
eventually pop.

~~~
etherael
Assuming the commodity has value, it's effectively the same as gold mining,
it's just that the work is completely automated. The only "money being made
out of nothing" is due to quantitative easing in fiat currencies. Bitcoins
must be mined, and currently at least the setup and administration necessary
to pull that off in a way with decent returns is out of the reach of almost
all people (not necessarily people here, though).

------
petervandijck
Since you want to stay in the US, you should investigate the various visa
possibilities there. Spend some money (few K) on an immigration laywer.

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rick888
The great part about bit coins is there is no FTC oversight, making pump-and-
dump schemes very easy.

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nametoremember
Wow, suddenly bitcoin sounds appealing. Is it to late to join the party?

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pharno
well, you probably should get a place for many computers (good aircondition),
computers with low end cpus, but a few really good graphic cards inside and
mine again. Then with the leftover you could start a startup, make websites or
host them, or you could donate them to some great open source projects you
rely on.

~~~
schraeds
He can't sell his bitcoins fast enough... Mining for more after it has gotten
exponentially less lucrative seems rather myopic on your part.

------
bbit
Hi,

Would you ever invest in bitcoin related startups?

If so email me bitstarter@gmail.com

Thanks!

------
Loew
I understand your problem and there are indeed multiple options for you. You
should definitly not see this as a problem but as an opportunity! However, if
you decide to keep living like now, and you do not wish to use that money for
the moment, I suggest you put it in an investment (such as bonds) were you
cannot easily withdraw the money. This is because otherwise you would be
quickly tempted to use the money for your daily problems you would normally
solve otherwise. So if you want to continue living like you did before, make
sure the money is frozen or something but still invested so it doesn't use
it's value over time (inflation). To make your decision, you should look into
the options. First, do a lot, I mean really a lot of research on founding a
startup. How much work is it? What will your life look like when you have a
startup? Which things will you miss that you have now? Write down some pro's
and con's.

My perspective is that you do want to continue living like you live now. If
you are happy with your job, stay there for now, because it is not easy to
find a good job. Also you can get a lot of xp and grow. You can have
oppurtunities like you say and you will make a carrier. Something to be proud
of. When you outgrow that job, you can think of your own business.

Of course I want to suggest to you to help me carry the burden and give me
some of that large amount. It would be a nice reward for this advice, but I do
not want anything in return for this, I give it to you unconditionally.
However I do find myself in need of €2,500 to pursue my own dream. I do have a
dream, and it is now that I have the chance to make it real. That is because
now I do have time and I'm young, if I wait to long, I will end up in this
society witouth any prospects and live a normal live. So if you are open to
investing in someone's dream, please feel free to do so. I know this is what I
want deep in side and will make me happy. Donation can be done on this adress:
1Q5JMqpGcGo7cz7eqrhuivyLsSCzTY9CQ5 I thank you in advance and I hope you can
use my advice. If you need anything else ask me here.

