
ICE arrests 90 more students at fake university in Michigan - 317070
https://eu.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/11/27/ice-arrested-250-foreign-students-fake-university-metro-detroit/4277686002/
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whack
I'm genuinely puzzled as to what crime these students had supposedly
committed. ICE had not told these students that the university was fake. They
marketed it as a legitimate and accredited university, and even got other
governmental agencies to vouch for this fake university:

> _Attorneys for the students arrested said they were unfairly trapped by the
> U.S. government since the Department of Homeland Security had said on its
> website that the university was legitimate. An accreditation agency that was
> working with the U.S. on its sting operation also listed the university as
> legitimate._

It sounds like most of the students were specifically looking to enroll in an
accredited university, so that they can be in compliance with the law. And
they would have succeeded in that as well, if not for ICE deceiving them into
thinking that the university was accredited, when it actually wasn't. How is
this not entrapment?

 _" entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent or agent of the
state induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have
otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit"_

~~~
robrtsql
I don't buy it, but the article includes a quote that appears to attempt to
address your concern:

> "Their true intent could not be clearer," Assistant U.S. Attorney Brandon
> Helms wrote in a sentencing memo this month for Rampeesa, one of the eight
> recruiters, of the hundreds of students enrolled. "While 'enrolled' at the
> University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent
> a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an
> education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone,
> because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."

Their argument is that, because no student ever attended class, all of the
students were knowingly attempting to commit fraud. That claim seems suspect,
considering that there were no classes for the students to attend.

I suppose you could argue that, if a student found out that there were no
classes and did not attempt to report the university or un-enroll, that they
were complicit in the fraud, but still, what the hell?

~~~
barneygumble742
> Reddy said, though, that in some cases, students who transferred out from
> the University of Farmington after realizing they didn't have classes on-
> site, were still arrested.

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FreedomToCreate
This makes no sense. The main issue here is recruiters in India and the USA
promoting these types of universities to students there. These people should
be caught. People seeking a better life apply, pay the tuition and show up.
Now if they know it is fake is another issue. If you place a million dollars
on the sidewalk and someone takes it and never reports it and you arrest them,
is it fair. You are basically testing the persons ethics, which is not a
criminal offence.

~~~
Jamwinner
While some feel it may border on entrapment in this case, a failed 'test of
ethics' generally is illegal. If you do unethical things because the threat of
getting caught is all that matters, you are not a good person by any standard.

~~~
thatcat
Ethics cuts both ways: if you are too lazy to find real illegal acts and
contrive one as part of your job because it is more convenient and profitable,
then you are not a good person by any standard and are certainly in no
position to judge others.

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burk96
I'm curious as to how much money this entrapment program cost compared to the
cost of extending visas/offering citizenship.

~~~
brewdad
Apparently, this program made money. Students paid a million dollars in
tuition that they aren't getting back.

~~~
black_puppydog
Which we can all be sure will be used for the benefit of the union! _cough_
Iran-contra _cough_

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splatzone
How is this allowed to happen? I don’t understand what the students did wrong

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pontifier
The people who set up this 'college' should each spend a day in jail for every
day any of the 'students' spent in jail.

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hindsightbias
“fake university in metro Detroit created by the Department of Homeland
Security”

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Keverw
Reminds me of the movie Accepted from 2006. Justin Long, the guy from all the
older Apple commercials played in it.

I thought this statement was a bit untrue though:

"Attorneys for ICE and the Department of Justice maintain that the students
should have known it was not a legitimate university because it did not have
classes in a physical location."

There are online universities that are accredited as far as I know, but most
of them are for-profit schools and heard some of their credits aren't
transferable. Chances are if you watch television, you've seen commercials for
some of them. Some of them will accept almost anyone though, no test scores
just to get your student aid funding, such as your pell grant. I know also
some were reported to aggressive target Veterans for their GI bill money. Not
sure if people see these schools are legit, but probably teaching similar
brick and mortar curriculum.

Some of these schools also have brick and mortar campuses, offering fully
online programs and some programs are a mix of online and in-classroom, for
example, nursing schools. So some online schools for sure are doing shady
things, but I wouldn't discredit a school only because it's online. However
you should really do your research and look into the accreditation, job stats
but even then those are useless as you could go to college for engineering but
if you got a job after flipping burgers you count as getting a job even if not
in your field, reviews, etc. Being able to not transfer credits would also be
a turn off if other schools aren't willing to accept.

I think online schools should be a option and hope they improve over time and
flexible. Maybe you are a stay at home mom, so while you aren't helping your
children you can be working on your degree. Maybe you got a degree already,
and wanted to advance in your company. So you decide to go back to school and
get your MBA so your organization will value you more, then in your spare time
and weekends you could be earning your MBA. I was interviewing with a company
that made software for set top boxes, she seen my Github and said she really
liked me, and thought I had a lot of fire in me but said couldn't move any
further because not having college. Plus I had a vision to reinvent TV, I
shared about on blogs/social media. This was 2012, but a lot of those same
ideas such as the Cloud DVR are incorporated into real products now. So some
companies don't care about your skills 100%. Looked up the company, looks like
last year they went bankrupt. Seems like they were mostly just contracting for
cable companies.

However, if you are a foreign student from India, I don't see why you'd need
to come to the US when you can do the same programs online.

