

Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty - nexttimer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25399345

======
spodek
> _The US National Security Agency is considering offering an amnesty to
> fugitive intelligence contractor Edward Snowden if he agrees to stop leaking
> secret documents, an NSA official says._

That means as bad for the NSA as giving amnesty would be, they consider
remaining documents _worse_.

That means however bad you've found the revelations so far, expect worse to
come.

As for Snowden, I presume he's smart enough to realize amnesty from the NSA
leaves dozens of other government entities or just angry people to get him,
whether legally or illegally, who already flout the Constitution, lie,
illegally detain and send people to countries that torture, etc.

~~~
dopamean
How does the NSA offer amnesty anyway? Is it not the Justice Department that
would bring charges in this situation? It's like the family of a murder victim
offering amnesty to the murderer... it's not really up to them.

~~~
sneak
By that logic, James Clapper would be charged for lying to congress by now.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."

~~~
freerobby
What makes you think the Justice Department wants to go after Clapper?

------
kordless
> "This is analogous to a hostage taker taking 50 people hostage, shooting 10,
> and then say, 'if you give me full amnesty, I'll let the other 40 go'."

No. This is analogous to YOU taking 50 people hostage, shooting 10 of them,
and then someone coming to you and telling you to stop shooting people or they
are going to tell on you if you don't release the rest of the hostages.

> What do you do?

You let your hostages go.

~~~
fit2rule
Damn straight!

NEVER forget that people like Alexander are professional murderers, liars, and
plain: THUGS. They have been in the business of oppressing their fellow human
beings for decades.

They are masters at owning the battlefield - which means they will frame their
argument in the very substance of the TRUTH, twisting it to suit their
intended purpose - in this case, to gain lost ground in the "honor" and
"righteousness" department - two vile substances which propel many a killing,
murdering, destruction machine.

Turn the table back on Alexander, always. Whenever he is given credence as the
victor in the moral argument, remind the victim of his propaganda that _they
are responsible for the continued actions of this government if they agree
with its statement, its message, and its positions on its crimes against
humanity._

Until Americans realize they _ARE_ responsible for the machine they have
created, and under whose labour they live their very protected lives, we will
get no true change.

------
JanezStupar
Is NSA going through 5 stages of grief
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-
Ross_model#Stages](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-
Ross_model#Stages))? Reading this article seems like this is making me feel
like they are at stage 3.

------
wil421
This is so stupid. Snowden hasnt leaked documents since he initially gave it
to the first few reporters. Those reporters have stated from the beginning it
was in their hands now to determine what is reported to the public.

> This is analogous to a hostage taker taking 50 people hostage, shooting 10,
> and then say, 'if you give me full amnesty, I'll let the other 40 go'. What
> do you do?

That is absolutely absurd. No lives are put in harms way like they could've
been with the unredatcted wikileaks data. I believe the reporters are being
cautious on what type of data they post.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
What exactly determine's the press's release schedule? Ratings? Milking? Ad
conversation stats?

No idea why everything hasn't been released yet. It also isn't bulk data like
the wikileaks fiasco. Looks like NSA program specs. Redaction can't be taking
this long.

Funny how Snowden is now caught between a dictator in Russia and the Western
for-profit press. Probably not a good place to be. I imagine he's smart enough
to have an "insurance" file which means we'll never see the real dirt on the
NSA.

~~~
ds9
The slow release schedule keeps the info in the news throughout the series. If
it were dumped all at once, it would be "forgotten" by mainstream media by the
time writers would have time to sort thru it.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Can you cite this? Who is making this call? Greenwald? Did he specifically
claim this methodology?

I see an ironic lack of transparency here.

------
mattgibson
That's a pretty extreme step.

Given that there have been stories saying that the NSA have not been able to
work out exactly what he took from them, this implies that they are afraid of
what he has yet to reveal.

We know that he deliberately didn't release material that was specifically
going to endanger individuals or operations and that newspapers have been even
more careful to only reveal generalities. This suggests that there is no need
for the NSA to worry about stuff that is not suitable for publication. Which
implies that there are other stories which are a really big deal, which both
he and newspapers would be happy to publish, but which they have not published
yet.

But what? I can't imagine what else they could've been up to on top of what
we've learnt. Maybe I just have incredulity burnout.

~~~
kbenson
I imagine the NSA also looks quite extensively at worst case scenarios.
Without knowledge of what he has, assuming he has some fairly damaging
material he has not seem disposed towards revealing (ignoring the even
possibility he has even more damning material he _is_ willing to release),
they still have to worry about future changes in his reasoning on what's
acceptable to release, and third parties without such compunctions (or
evenmies) getting access to the data in some manner.

With that in mind, the best manner to recover the data completely and securely
may be to get him back on their side.

------
Havoc
This just comes across as weak/desperate on the NSA's side.

If I were him I'd tell the US to shove it. They made him intentionally
stateless and pressured other nations to make seeking asylum difficult - that
to me is a low blow when it comes to treating whistle-blowers - even by US
standards.

~~~
Shivetya
This is nothing more than a trial balloon floated by someone in the
administration. They want to gauge public opinion.

Frankly it would be stupid to grant him amnesty because it will pretty much
open the door to copy cats. They can simply wait him out, Russia only does
this when it has value on the international stage, its quite evident Putin has
little respect for the President.

~~~
Havoc
>Frankly it would be stupid to grant him amnesty

Not so sure. Remember the article 2/3 days back about how the NSA has no real
idea exactly what kind of info he has. This move strikes me as a shallow
attempt at damage control. Or more accurately an NSA person thinking "lets
rather not find out how deep this goes".

Regarding Putin - yes no doubt its a pure PR exercise but I'm thankful that
there is some kind of force to balance it in this case. As I said, a nation
using citizenship & asylum interference to specifically target one person is
deeply immoral in my books. If Putin is the one calling them out on that sht
then so be it.

------
mtgx
Is Alexander seriously comparing this to him taking 50 hostages and then
_killing_ 10 people?

And this is the same Alexander who helps CIA kill that many people per day
with his mass surveillance and "signature drone strikes" \- right? Just
checking to see if he's the right guy to question Snowden's morals.

~~~
joezydeco
No, you read the analogy wrong.

Alexander is saying "He's already committed a crime and is promising to do
another. How do we give him a free pass on the first crime if he promises not
to do the second?"

~~~
asn0
I can't get past the irony of Alexander's moral indignation.

------
dregstudios
The dystopian fantasies of yesteryear are now a reality. We’ve allowed the
coming of an age where the civil liberties our forefathers fought so hard for
are being eroded by the day. Freedom of Press, Freedom of Speech and Freedom
of Assembly are mere ghostly images of their original intent. We’ve woken up
to an Orwellian Society of Fear where anyone is at the mercy of being labeled
a terrorist for standing up for rights we took for granted just over a decade
ago. Read about how we’re waging war against ourselves at
[http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2011/09/living-in-
society...](http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2011/09/living-in-society-of-
fear-ten-years.html)

------
Tosh108
I'm not an expert on US law. But why does the NSA have the authority to grand
amnesty?

~~~
sneak
The same way they have the authority to tap everyone's phones: they are one
and the same with the unchecked military power of the United States with carte
blanche to di whatever they want from spy on ex-lovers, to imprison people in
solitary for years before trial, to lie openly to congress without
repercussions.

------
midnitewarrior
If Snowden takes the deal, then he looks like the guy they are trying to paint
him to be - a traitor that can't stomach permanent exile.

If he takes the deal unconditionally, he will have accomplished nothing other
than isolate the United States from the rest of the world. Laws will not
change, the people will not gain control of its government's activities.

Snowden can take the deal under one condition only - and that is that the NSA
stops their improper practices under the supervision of Snowden. Of course,
this will never happen.

Any interest Snowden expresses in a NSA deal will only be used to discredit
him.

~~~
leokun
He's already said he would return if granted amnesty. I agree with nothing
you've said.

------
dobbsbob
Snowden has 'insurance' that will leak if they kill him and they probably
figured out what it was and would like it back. Most likely plans to the NSA
death star

~~~
kevando
Where have you heard this?

~~~
dobbsbob
[http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AO0Y120131125?irpc...](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AO0Y120131125?irpc=932)

Also just because the NSA gives snowden amnesty doesn't mean UK won't
extradite him for espionage. I'm sure they will play that game to jail him
some how for life

------
venomsnake
Snowden cannot possibly stop leaking the information. It is in journalists'
hands already.

------
sneak
There will be no deal for Snowden. The headline is vastly misleading.

------
FreeKin256
Sounds like they are attempting to make the conditions of Mr Snowden's asylum
in Russia null as he will "no longer be under threat" back in the US.

------
nexttimer
In plain English, this NSA is saying:

"If we 'consider' this, it's because the most important information is still
not out there, yet."

So it's basically counter-productive, unless your goal is to get the public
behind the NSA in order to hang Snowden one way or the other.

~~~
rhizome
_unless your goal is to get the public behind the NSA in order to hang Snowden
one way or the other_

My opinion is that this is exactly it. Once Snowden is here, the "amnesty"
will end just as soon as they can hang a false statements charge on him, then
parade him in handcuffs or on trial to discredit everything associated with
him, including Greenwald et al stories, after which they can continue their
business as usual. Make no mistake that Clapper, Alexander and Holder would
LOVE to make a Rosenberg out of him.

