
WEB DEVELOPER (DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES) - candybar
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/web/4894818972.html
======
carsongross
Once again, we see the terrible effects of there being not enough technical
talent here in the United States.

As we are constantly told by the VCs and large tech firms, we need to open up
the green card immigration program to allow developers in who will do the jobs
that Americans just won't do. Like, for example, being a full stack web
developer who does QA, customer support and data scrubbing for 12 bucks an
hour while living in one of America's most expensive cities.

/s

~~~
andrewstuart2
I do agree with you, but to be fair, this is only a single post, likely from
some company that either has no idea what they're doing or is deliberately
interested in exploiting someone in desperate need of a job.

~~~
ibebrett
They clearly know what they are doing. They definitely need people with prolog
experience

------
burncycle
Also, background in machine learning, algorithms research, data mining and
large dataset visualization, and real-time optimization.

Must multi-task by making coffee, making sure bathrooms are well-stocked with
paper goods, occasionally running out to perform errands, walk owner's dogs,
etc.

Not required but preferred: deep background in robotics research, computer
vision, AI, mechanical engineering.

Must agree to compliment owner on inherent genius in all areas, and also
render compliments on owner's cars, sexual achievements, and financial
accomplishments.

Candidates with background in deep-space communications, global mobile
technology, and mathematical research requisite for those areas of expertise
given special consideration.

Successful applicant will be asked periodically to perform remedial sexual
services, ritual degradation, self-flogging, coprophagic activities, etc.

Position offers no insurance benefits.

------
bvanslyke
Damn! I was going to apply to this but I only have experience with GoDaddy and
BlueHost, but not HostGator. I'll have to take my Prolog experience elsewhere.

------
freyr
SWI-Prolog? DrRacket? This has to be a joke, right?

They're obscure enough that a non-programmer wouldn't likely know they exist,
yet nobody with a clue would request that of a web developer. The only
plausible explanation I can fathom is that they Googled a list of IDEs and
picked a few at random... or that this is a joke.

~~~
csharpminor
This actually looks a lot like the product of someone asking several "tech
savvy" friends what skills a web developer would need, and then pasting the
results into a job announcement.

This practice isn't limited to small shops either - I've seen multi-billion
dollar companies (not in the tech sector) require a 4 year CS degree for a
Wordpress developer position.

~~~
sejje
I literally can't image the person, tech savvy or not, who would come up with
DrRacket here. Or prolog.

I agree with GP that its' just blind googling.

~~~
dhimes
This would also be a great way to warn other devs off of the company (note
that the sites are given).

I actually tried a couple of searches based on your comment and I really
didn't get anything that wouldn't taken quite a bit of effort to piece
together into this listing.

"what does an expert web programmer know" "what does it take to be a web
programmer" "what do I need to know to be a web programmer"

This might be a warning written by someone who is leaving. In other words,
with a less-than-friendly parting of ways, his/her final task was to write a
job description to hire a replacement. If so, well played.

~~~
sejje
That's a really interesting theory. Improbable, but I like it.

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kevincennis
I believe $12/hour is also right around the starting wage at In-N-Out Burger
in LA, just to put that into perspective.

~~~
dgabriel
You can clean houses for twice that, and the shit you have to deal with is far
easier to handle.

------
semmem1
Why is this being posted? Its not like they are expecting any special skill
that anyone who works for minimum wage would not have.

~~~
skrowl
I think that's the joke.

Must have HUGE AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE IN ALL THE THINGS (with bonus "Hosting" on
GitHub)!

Pay rate: $12/hr.

~~~
danielsamuels
Github hosts code, Github also hosts websites. It's not too outrageous.

------
jgh
Screenshotted for the eventual CL takedown:
[http://i.imgur.com/CsathsU.png](http://i.imgur.com/CsathsU.png)

~~~
joeperks
It will be those who think like you who survive the apocalypse. </humor>

------
tombrossman
Just did a quick 'whois' on the second domain mentioned (COUTURESHOPELA·COM)
and see it has never been registered. I bet some enterprising developer could
register it in less than one hour and sell it to them for a bit more than $12.

Any takers?

~~~
pcglue
I think they can't even proofread. It's probably supposed to be
coutureshopla.com. That website looks similarly styled to the mnm* one.

------
McRask
All this is missing is an experience requirement for longer than some
technology has existed.

~~~
harkyns_castle
Those ones really crack me up. Its the first filter of the clowns that have no
idea what they're talking about. The other glaring one that normally gets/got
me back in the day that Java == JavaScript to all agencies.

~~~
astolarz
The problem with the logic in your last statement is that you're using == when
you should be using ===.

------
gk1
In case anyone's curious what their site is actually built with:
[http://builtwith.com/mnmcouture.com](http://builtwith.com/mnmcouture.com)

Funny how they mention Magento, but the site is actually on Volusion.

------
vezzy-fnord
I didn't know Scheme and Prolog programmers were this underpaid.

------
sah88
At least they are paying. Check out this one for "volunteers"

[http://letscreateapp.com/LCA%20careers.html](http://letscreateapp.com/LCA%20careers.html)

~~~
harkyns_castle
Its flexible, that's the real draw. I'd definitely go for it, being one of the
"creatives".

------
GBond
Impressive stack, must be a undercover Google R&D project for fashion VR: •
HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, JQuery, XML, ASP.NET, PHP, SQL. • CMS: WordPress,
Drupal, Magento, Joomla. • Web Server Package: LAMP, XAMPP, WAMP. • Web
Hosting: BlueHost, GoDaddy, HostGator. • IDE: NetBeans, Notepad++,
Dreamweaver, PhpSt • Java, C, C++, C#, Prolog, Scheme. • Hosting: GitHub •
IDE: Eclipse, NetBeans, CodeBlocks, Dev-C++, SWI-Prolog, DrRacket. • Web
Design: Adobe suite

------
kyleblarson
$12 bucks per hour? You could work at McDonalds in Seatac (just south of
Seattle) and make $15.

------
IgorPartola
So I am not a fan of recruiters, ever since the very first one I dealt with
tried to screw me on salary. But I did an interesting thing as a consulting
gig once: I got paid to interview a guy for a first technical hire at a
company. Basically, it was two non-tech cofounders and they needed a
developer. They put out ads, got resumes, then realized they don't know how to
interview a developer. Friend of a friend of a friend referral => I got to
talk to them. Charged them for an hour of work to interview their top
candidate and gave them my conclusion.

Always wondered if this is a better business model than non-technical
recruiters, at least for a part of the process. And getting paid by the hour
means I don't have a conflict of interest to say the candidate is great.

------
harmonicon
I don't live in LA so am not too sure about the wage market there. But 12$/hr
seems pretty low for any job, let alone a developer position, in the second
largest city in the US?

I bet some HR person came up with that stack and the corresponding pay.

~~~
ryanSrich
I doubt this company has an HR person. They most likely stole another job post
or this is a complete troll. $12/hr isn't a _bit_ low. It's about $100 per
hour low.

~~~
dhimes
As I mentioned in another post, my guess is it's a disgruntled (ex-)employee
who was tasked to make the ad. This is a warning to other devs.

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robotnoises
[http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/los-angeles-web-
developer-...](http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/los-angeles-web-developer-
salary-SRCH_IL.0,11_IM508_KO12,25.htm)

------
forloop
Personally, I'm learning to code in Python, and once I do will probably work
for $3 per hour doing remote work via a freelancing site. At the moment I'm
going through Flask— which shouldn't take more than a couple of days to grok
at a basic level. I made a CRUD site a few years ago, so it's not like I'm
starting for zero.

Anyway, working for below minimum wage is economically rational. Once I have
more experience I'll command more money, or create products for myself.

~~~
mantas
Don't go that way. Seriously. It's better to offer your services for free to
local non-profits than work for peanuts. The main thing is that clients who
pay the lowest also treat you the worst. You'll meet a lot of unreasonable
demands and overally crappy people while working those very low wage projects.

Go to your local non-profits and offer them your services for free. Be clear
that you're just learning and that's why you'd make them a web page or an
intranet app for free. You'll get to learn, some feedback, more or less honest
customers and karma points. Once you got experience and portfolio, you can go
after the better paying projects (~$10/h or so) that are run by sane people
who will treat you well.

Source: Started freelancing back in high school, almost 10 years in business.

~~~
suzzer99
I learned web programming by building an e-commerce site from scratch in Perl
the late 90s. When all was said and done, my partner and I split $2k, which
brought my hourly rate to $1-$2/hour. But for 10 years I made $55-$75/hour
maintaining that thing - which I hadn't really foreseen I just wanted to learn
web programming. The point is it can be worthwhile.

~~~
mantas
I think we're talking about different things. Did you do freelancing on
Elance/Odesk/etc?

I agree that doing a useful real world project for learning is great. If you
get paid for it, it's even better. But cheapass clients on those websites are
usually a different kind. People want to have a {popular thing} clone or
{popular thing} meets {another popular thing} and don't really understand
neither what they want from the freelancer nor what they want as the final
delivery. Of course, there're good but cheap projects on those marketplaces as
well. But as a beginner, it's way too use to stumble upon let's say... not
very pleasant clients. Thus if money is not the issue, I'd recommend going the
non-profit way instead. They at least know what they want and usually
appreciate your work.

------
tehwebguy
I feel like this has to be some dev exacting revenge on these guys

~~~
rtomayko
"Unfortunately, your request for a 5% raise was rejected. We're sorry to see
you go. Can you help hire a replacement? Just write up a quick job posting w/
your basic work experience and daily routine. Thanks."

------
bdcravens
Their site is hosted on Volusion, a hosted ecommerce platform. Probably what
they're really hiring for is someone to maintain the template and product
SKUs, but figured they'd throw in a bunch of other bullet points related to
"web development" thinking it'd get a better employee.

------
ivraatiems
If we define expertise in all the things this post lists at the same level of
depth with which the person who posted it understands web design, my semester
of Scheme and DrRacket makes me overqualified!

I'm almost tempted to email them and just ask them to define some of the terms
they used in this post.

------
johnnyfaehell
I like how it's a Magento site but knowing Magento isn't required however
knowing Scheme is.

~~~
gk1
It's not even a Magento site - it's Volusion.

------
pdevr
The killer line: "Experience in the following programs is a must."

Followed by 35 tools/technologies!

------
sente
[http://i.imgur.com/q6lzN9x.png](http://i.imgur.com/q6lzN9x.png) \-- Here's a
screenshot for anyone who might stumble upon this thread in the future,
because craigslist deletes posts after a couple weeks.

------
unoti
The real punch line would be if they offered equity in exchange for the low
salary.

------
larrymcp
I enjoyed "Must multitask by helping answering phones" too.

------
BrandonMarc
Is $24,000 per year even above the poverty line for SF? That's a giant list of
expert qualifications for just a tiny bit more than someone gets their first
day flipping burgers.

------
fit2rule
All they have to do is walk out their cushy hipster pad in the garment
district down to skid row, and they can probably find 50 qualified individuals
for the price ..

------
andrewflnr
I love how after the enormous list of ridiculous requirements, they have, "SEO
Knowledge is prefered but not required." Just tops it off perfectly.

------
aint
They didn't specify the future employee's legal status in the country. Are
they accepting resumes from the "undocumented illegal aliens"?

------
atmosx
Any idea why do they need prolog?

(I'm assuming that the person who compiled this has a clue, which is a thesis
not very well supported by the posting itself...).

------
sktrdie
Actually, 12 per hour is about 1900 a month. Not bad. Here in Italy, I'm doing
development work at a University for far less than that.

------
oAlbe
I thought these things happened only here in Italy. It's kind of relieving to
know that we are not the only ones in this situation.

------
Ryoku
Wow. I'm sad to admit we see a LOT of this kind of job posts in my city
(Mexico city, Mexico). And they get plenty of answers too.

~~~
harkyns_castle
Gah. Bring on my IT union. I'll get the ball rolling if need be. Long as I
don't get shot by affiliates of Jobs who like making wage agreements.

------
first_account
I hope I get it.

------
tommccabe
Don't forget your two references.

------
harkyns_castle
Tempted to apply and send them some NSA-ridden hard drives to get them
started.

------
rjuyal
Serious! Is this the average hourly rate for a web dev in Los Angeles?

~~~
akcreek
My ecommerce business is based out of Los Angeles and our shipping clerk gets
that. I wish he knew a dozen programming languages... unfortunately he is
still training on email. He can pack the hell out of a box though.

~~~
atmosx
You made me LOL "[...] I wish he knew a dozen programming languages...
unfortunately he is still training on email."

------
aaronem
Yep, that's the fashion industry for you.

------
jaworrom
I think they left off the extra 0, no?

------
kolbe
Now, I'm definitely not saying that anyone should do this, because I don't
advocate any illegal actions. But, if they happened to get DDOS attacked, I
would laugh heartily.

