
The wild economy of tabletop board game funding - slackpad
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/05/887283058/a-look-into-the-wild-economy-of-tabletop-board-game-funding
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cycomanic
Board games are an interesting thing because it's one of those global trends
that did not originate in the US. Instead it game from Germany but with quite
a bit of delay.

The German version of settlers came out around 1995 IIRC and sparked a big
revival of board games (and strategic board games in particular in Germany.
Then some time around 2008 or so I had friends in NZ and OZ who used to not
play board games tell me about this cool game the wanted to play. I was quite
surprised that it was settlers which I had not played since moving overseas in
2004.

So yeah the whole revival originated in Germany, but took about 10 years to
suddenly go global.

~~~
asdf21
Got popular in 2005 - 2006 in California

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zeroonetwothree
That sounds exactly right based on my recollection.

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scj
With the exception of board games that are related to existing games I already
like, I treat Kickstarter as a negative signal for the first year.

Similar to a video game licensed movie, or a movie licensed video game; even
if the title has elements I enjoy, I've been burned enough. Playing it is the
only way I'll know I love it.

I can't even trust data collection on BGG, because typically the first wave of
Kickstarter ratings are by people who have boarded the hype train. Followed by
a re-alignment when people who are playing friends' copies step in.

Component quality bias, as well as cost bias are related (and typically
compounded by Kickstarter) phenomena.

~~~
aaanotherhnfolk
I stopped kickstarting games too because I've had like a 10% hit rate.

One clear signal to me now is if they offer additional game mechanics as a
stretch goal. It's hard enough balancing the base game and making it
compelling. If a designer thinks they can do this not once but twice, and in a
modular way no less, I question their design sensibilities in the first place.

It's possible that this is a flaw of kickstarting board games in general. The
platform incentivizes stretch goals and they don't map well onto most board
games.

~~~
xmprt
As someone who isn't a huge board game nerd, would additional cosmetics or
characters be reasonable stretch goals? Characters might be harder to balance
but if you have extra money, you might be able to invest more into it.

This is an approach similar to what a video game might do.

~~~
tialaramex
I don't kickstart board games but I do play a fair few of them (these days on
[https://boardgamearena.com/](https://boardgamearena.com/) but under other
circumstances as physical tabletop games)

What you describe is a fairly common "promo" incentive, once upon a time you
might get it in the version bought at a big event or that sort of thing, these
days it'd be for Kickstarter backers.

Yes, you can make small customisations that don't significantly change
gameplay, for example Viticulture is a game about owning a small vineyard and
to add variation you get a "Momma" and "Papa" for your vineyard which tweak
how much money or starting equipment you get plus they have names and little
illustrations to give them personality. Maybe Papa Phil gives you slightly
less money than Papa Eric but a piece of equipment that's worth the difference
if you need it - having Papa Phil saves you taking an action buying the
equipment with money, but if you don't use that equipment at first you're
still short of the cost whereas someone playing Eric can spend it how they
wish. Clearly having one or two extra Mamas or Papas as a promo isn't game
breaking (so long as the designer doesn't add Papa Scrooge who has twice as
much money as everybody else put together or suchlike). In fact Viticulture
went with event cards for Promos, which is a bit trickier to balance, but
seems to have worked OK in practice.

But often the correct way to design games is to simplify until it's good, not
add more and more until playtesters would rather say it's great than risk
being asked to waste another six hours on one more test session. Promo
features fight that. Would Viticulture work fine with no Mamas and Papas? Yes
it would. Would Can't Stop be better with fancy cosmetic player pieces instead
of the typical generic ones? Er, no, not really. So such promotional features
aren't very good for the hobby as a whole.

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BurritoAlPastor
Board games are uniquely well-adapted to the crowdfunding format because the
game design can be 100% complete and playtested before any art or
manufacturing has even started. (Of course, you need _some_ art to sell the
Kickstarter.) The upfront capital for developing a board game is about $40 at
the art store.

In the extreme case, some campaigns link to a print-and-play version of the
game so you can “try before you buy”. Try to do that with a video game!

~~~
Garlef
There actually are similar things for video games: Steam Greenlight / Early
Access for example.

Also: Even a long time ago, both Quake and Quake 3 Arena had free versions out
in the open before their relase.

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Xelbair
The thing is that Early Access has a very(rightfully so) bad reputation -
because board game design needs to be finished prior to campaign, whereas you
can drop empty game in early access, promise quite a lot.. and then abandon
the project.

~~~
detaro
And you somehow can't run a crowdfunding campaign for a game that isn't
actually worked out and playtested?

It's the same thing: look at what's already there, pay if you think that's
good.

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irrational
I’ve backed a lot of board games. I would never back one that has not been
throughly play tested, has the rule book basically finished (at least the text
if not the images and graphic design), has a play through video, and ideally
has some reviews of prototype versions from trusted reviewers.

~~~
detaro
And it's a good idea to apply similar ideas to early access computer games,
which was my point. People will try sell you something that doesn't meet that
bar, but you don't have to let them.

~~~
PeterisP
The point is that the business is very different - an almost-ready board game
has spent just 5-10% of its total budget because all the big money is needed
for manufacturing the production run; so an almost-ready board game can need
crowdfunding to make it.

However, an almost ready computer game has almost all of the effort (and
money) already invested. If it's 90% ready, then it needs some 10% extra money
and some beta testing, so it can go on an "early access" sale but does not
_need_ crowdfunding to get released.

And if it is at a stage where it still needs 90% of the total budget and wants
to gather it from crowdfunding, then you _can 't_ apply the same ideas as from
a boardgame, because a computer game can't be ready for play until much (or
most) of the work and money is already spent, like you can with boardgames.

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armagon
Its strange to me that the article says that board games are booming during
the pandemic.

I haven't been able to have a regular board game night in months :-( I tried
online but didn't love it (I suppose I should try it some more); I wish I
could see how to do it in person and maintain physical distance, but it looks
doubtful.

~~~
CerealFounder
Hijack. Has ANYONE found a way to play multiplayer Catan online? All the sites
dont work it seems.

~~~
SOLAR_FIELDS
Tabletop Simulator is usually the go-to for basically any online board game.

~~~
tialaramex
TTS is a real last resort. It's the "Let's try hitting it with a hammer and
see if that fixes it" of ways to play board games.

I have an ongoing Gloomhaven campaign inside TTS. 50% of every session is
people wailing and yelling as stupid things are simulated that we don't care
about. Oh you dropped that piece on the edge of a piece of cardboard so it
fell over. Oh you put this token at the wrong angle so it doesn't count. Ugh.

When the same group of people play anything else we play it either in
dedicated software or in
[https://boardgamearena.com/](https://boardgamearena.com/)

Unfortunately BGA doesn't have Catan though its management have said they
would cheerfully _pay_ to offer Catan.

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cletus
So I went through a phase of backing a lot of board game Kickstarters, which
probably started with Scythe, a game I missed out on (and bought off the BGG
marketplace, at a premium). But I think Scythe is an outlier here.

I've gotten a number of mediocre games but some good ones (eg 7th Continent,
Gloomhaven). In some cases what I bought ended up being cheaper at retail. I
have gotten some reprints though, which are of course more of a known
quantity.

I will say though that one nice thing to come out of all of this is "premium
pieces". That's why I bought the Scythe Collector's edition. The game remains
the same for those unwilling or unable to pay the premium but for people like
myself with the ability and inclination to do so, it makes the gaming
experience just a little nicer.

But I rarely back Kickstarters now. I'm glad it exists as a means of
bootstrapping games.

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ARandomerDude
I'd really like to get into more board games, but so many of them have an
occult flavor to them.

Suggestions? I have Catan, Ticket to Ride, and Carcassonne.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> I'd really like to get into more board games, but so many of them have an
> occult flavor to them.

How did you come to this conclusion? It's... completely disconnected from
reality.

If I go to boardgamegeek.com and look at the "the hotness" sidebar, there are
15 games (of which two, Gloomhaven and Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion, would
appear to be closely related).

In descending order of "occult flavor":

1\. Arkham Horror: The Card Game

2\. Spirit Island (in which you play as pagan deities trying to repel the
forces of civilization)

3\. Gloomhaven (perfectly ordinary dungeon crawler, as far as I see)

4\. Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion

5\. Lost Ruins of Arnak (makes some reference to "fearsome guardians"
associated with the remnants of a lost civilization)

At this point, there is zero "occult flavor" associated with any of the 10
remaining games. So, in the order listed on the site:

6\. Pendulum - "Players command their workers, execute stratagems, and expand
the provinces in their domain in real time to gain resources and move up the
four victory tracks: power, prestige, popularity, and legendary achievement."

7\. Dead Reckoning - "is a game of exploration, piracy, and influence based in
a Caribbean-esque setting. Each player commands a ship and crew and seeks to
amass the greatest fortune."

8\. Imperial Struggle - "is a two-player game depicting the 18th-century
rivalry between France and Britain. It begins in 1697, as the two realms wait
warily for the King of Spain to name an heir, and ends in 1789, when a new
order brought down the Bastille."

9\. Terraforming Mars - "Giant corporations, sponsored by the World Government
on Earth, initiate huge projects to raise the temperature, the oxygen level,
and the ocean coverage until the environment is habitable. In Terraforming
Mars, you play one of those corporations and work together in the terraforming
process, but compete for getting victory points that are awarded not only for
your contribution to the terraforming, but also for advancing human
infrastructure throughout the solar system, and doing other commendable
things."

10\. Godzilla: Tokyo Clash - "you play as the Earth's most fearsome Kaiju —
Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah, and Megalon — battling for dominance as the
most terrifying monster in Japan."

11\. Wingspan - "You are bird enthusiasts—researchers, bird watchers,
ornithologists, and collectors—seeking to discover and attract the best birds
to your network of wildlife preserves."

12\. Maracaibo - "is set in the Caribbean during the 17th century. The players
try to increase their influence in three nations in four rounds with a play
time of 40 minutes per player."

13\. Brass: Birmingham - "tells the story of competing entrepreneurs in
Birmingham during the industrial revolution, between the years of 1770-1870.
As in its predecessor, you must develop, build, and establish your industries
and network, in an effort to exploit low or high market demands."

14\. Everdell - "the time has come for new territories to be settled and new
cities established. You will be the leader of a group of critters [forest
wildlife] intent on just such a task. There are buildings to construct, lively
characters to meet, events to host—you have a busy year ahead of yourself.
Will the sun shine brightest on your city before the winter moon rises?"

15\. Root - "The nefarious Marquise de Cat has seized the great woodland,
intent on harvesting its riches. Under her rule, the many creatures of the
forest have banded together. This Alliance will seek to strengthen its
resources and subvert the rule of Cats."

~~~
1123581321
I was inclined to disagree with the OP, but if a third of the top board games
could reasonably be described as having an occult flavor, they seem connected
with reality. That’s high enough that it seems okay to ask for help choosing a
game.

Gloomhaven is full of demons and Lovecraftian monsters to fight, by the way,
and the player characters use summons and dark magic. Great game; we’re on
roughly our 40th play session tomorrow!

~~~
thaumasiotes
> if a third of the top board games

I don't think it makes sense to consider _Gloomhaven_ and _Gloomhaven: Jaws of
the Lion_ independently. There are other issues with this count -- for
example, Lost Ruins of Arnak doesn't appear to, technically, exist yet -- but
that would be the main one.

If, instead of the "the hotness" sidebar, I look at the top 20 games by
rating, then those with more than zero potential occult flavor are:

1\. Gloomhaven

13\. Spirit Island

19\. Arkham Horror: The Card Game

(with potential honorable mentions going to Star Wars: Rebellion and War of
the Ring: Second Edition, depending on your opinion of Star Wars and Lord of
the Rings.) This is 15%, not 33%.

You have to know what it is you're trying to count. A Feast for Odin (#23)
might be objectionable on the grounds that you are thematically honoring a
pagan god. But it involves no supernatural phenomena whatsoever. Mage Knight
(#24) is a war game in which you use magic.

I would mentally classify Mage Knight in the same genre as superheroes rather
than occultism, but somebody else might differ. But my larger point is, it's a
mistake to look at those two games, acknowledge that they both meet (very
different) definitions of occultism, and then conclude that occultism is
extremely prevalent. First define what occultism is, and then you'll notice
that the number of games actually meeting that definition is much smaller than
the number of games potentially meeting _any_ definition.

~~~
1123581321
I’m fine with your revised criteria but still think it shows the OP was
somewhat reasonable to ask for help. You insulted them pretty badly. They’ve
gotten good recommendations from other users, though.

