

Ask HN: is it bad to leave in the middle of turmoil? - throwaway_42

I have a job that pays really well, but is turning into a disaster. I'm currently assigned to two clusterfuck projects which involve multiple departments. Yesterday this stuff escalated to the C level execs because certain people keep dropping the ball.<p>From my estimate, this particular project will take at least 6 weeks to solve, due to vacation schedules. Probably more like 8-9 weeks. After it's done, I have 3-6 months of similarly boring, but hopefully not as managerially fucked up work to do.<p>I would like to walk out on this. Even if everything was going smoothly, this particular project is not anything I would put on my resume, out of fear of being asked to do something similar again.<p>However, I would like to maintain good terms with this company and get good references in the future.<p>What would you do?<p>Edit: I should mention that 2 people on this project have already quit. I don't think the project itself is why they quit, though. They had it planned in advance.
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mgkimsal
If they feel you've left them in the lurch, you won't get good references,
regardless of what happens.

As much as money doesn't magically make everything better, ask for more. It's
mercenary, but you're likely doing much more work to accomodate the 2 who left
(whether directly or indirectly). More $ for the short term will make it
easier to go write your book at the end of the year.

If you have a short term goal, imo, suck it up and try to make the best of it
(which, ime, would include more $ somehow). If you can afford to leave now and
just start on your book, it may be better for your sanity and attitude to just
do that instead.

You're in a situation with no easy answers.

Alternatively, you could also offer to take over the projects. Go direct to
the C-level crew and tell them you're going to be put in charge of the
project, you need $x dollars, and authority over the project to get it done.
If the project is that important, they may give it to you, or tell you to
pound sand. So... go pound sand.

It sounds like you couldn't do any worse than the ball-droppers.

This probably sounds like all pie-in-the-sky fantasy, but if you don't ask,
you don't get.

~~~
quanticle
>Alternatively, you could also offer to take over the projects. Go directly to
the C-level crew and tell them you're going to be put in charge of the
project, you need $x and authority over the project to get it done.

Although I agree with the rest of your post, I don't think this is a
particularly good idea. From what I've seen of politically fraught projects,
asking for authority just gets you more entangled in the bullshit that's
dragging down the project. Its best to just put in the work that's asked of
you and start hunting for greener pastures.

The C-level folks made the bed. Its not your job to sleep in it.

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AmberShah
1) Business is business. I find that companies and managers talk about loyalty
from employees but if they're budget gets cut you're out the door in a
heartbeat. You need to do what's right for you, in regards to stress level and
your career, just like a business will do what's in it's best interest.

2) References aren't much to count on these days. Some large companies won't
give them as a policy (good or bad). Furthermore, if they're going to give you
a bad reference now, they will likely do it in 6 months too.

3) It's hard to predict who will freak out and who won't. I've seen people who
normally freak out take it very calmly and even, nicely. And then I've seen
someone who is normally calm (and who I'd done a lot for) get angry at me when
I left with plenty of notice and not in a crunch time.

4) If the rats are already abandoning ship, go with them. When I have left a
couple of places, it did trigger a couple of other people to quit and when I
inquired back to the companies, it only got worse and worse. I've seen that
happen for other people too. The moral of the story is get out while you can.

------
michael_dorfman

       Step 1: Get a better job offer somewhere else
       Step 2: Accept said offer
       Step 3: Give notice at your current job.  "Sorry to leave you guys in the lurch, but this amazing opportunity opened up for me, and I just had to take it!"
       Step 4, Optional: Offer to come in to the old job for a day or two, on the weekend, to help out, just to grease the wheels a bit, and show that you're leaving on good terms, as a team player.

~~~
throwaway_42
The problem with step 1 is that I was going to leave at the end of the year to
go write a book. Maybe I could just say that? I just feel like it's going to
look like I am quitting because this project sucks... er... because IS why I
am quitting.

~~~
Tamerlin
"I just feel like it's going to look like I am quitting because this project
sucks... er... because IS why I am quitting."

Sounds like you answered your own question.

Would you really WANT a reference from these people?

I'm guessing no -- they're legally bound to confirm that you worked there, but
your references should be people that you've worked with, trust, and respect.
I NEVER list managers that have clusterfucked projects as references, I always
choose people who've worked with me and that I respected technically as well
as personally. (Some of whom WERE managers, but that's exceedingly rare.)

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byoung2
_However, I would like to maintain good terms with this company and get good
references in the future_

Before this project, would they have had good things to say about you? Then
those should still apply despite the coincidental timing of your resignation
with a really crappy project.

~~~
mgkimsal
It really depends on the people involved and who would be doing the reference,
and when the reference would come. Asking a direct manager for a reference
three weeks after leaving them in the middle of a death march will likely not
result in glowing praise.

~~~
byoung2
It sounds like he is not looking to dive right into another job (he was going
to write a book next). Maybe if he asks for that reference 6 months from now?

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HeyLaughingBoy
There's really no such thing as "a good time to leave." There is always
something that requires your attention.

Give your notice and leave. They don't need a reason; if they ask, simply say
you're looking for a new experience.

It's a business, not your best friend.

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baha_man
"However, I would like to maintain good terms with this company and get good
references in the future."

Don't many companies now have a policy that they _never_ give references, just
confirm job title and dates of employment, to avoid being sued?

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mattm
I can't really add anything to what others have mentioned.

The only thing you may want to do is talk to those 2 people who quit and ask
for their advice. Perhaps they saw this disaster coming...

------
ido
2 month isn't that long.

Trudge through it & a month from now tell them you plan on quitting once the
project is done (1 month notice is more than enough).

------
pasbesoin
What will your references be like if the project ends up going up in flames?
(Through no fault of your own -- but who's going to know and/or admit that?)

And does the company even provide references, as a matter of policy? (More and
more don't.) If you're concerned about having references, as others have
suggested here I'd suggest cultivating references personally amongst your
colleagues and contacts. Pick the ones you respect and who respect you. And do
it now, before you begin a break up -- or the company does. (Beware of tipping
colleagues off -- where such may be detrimental -- though, given the nature of
the immediate situation you're describing.)

If you want to make your departure seem "less personal", tell them you have an
opportunity you can't pass up. You don't necessarily have to tell them what
that is. (If they ask, maybe tell them it's in stealth mode? -- or some term
that doesn't sound as hokey or potentially bs, depending on your background
and what would or would not seem plausible.)

