
Mozilla to sell '$25' Firefox OS smartphones in India - yitchelle
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27793464
======
soapdog
Just so that people that are not following Firefox OS can know some tidbits:

* The mission of Firefox OS is to bring the next billion people online. Many in the poorest classes can't afford a computer or a smartphone and with the web being a wonderful resource with the potential to transform the life of its users, Mozilla saw that it needed to focus on those that are not attended by the current crop of entry level smartphones.

* Another objective is to bring back the freedoms we enjoy in the web into the mobile ecosystem which means no walled gardens and no exclusivity in the sense that the phone uses HTML5 based apps than can be easily shared between Android, iOS, Tizen, Ubuntu, $NEWFANCY, Firefox OS. Using HTML5 based apps doesn't mean the phone needs to be online, it just means that we're using an agreed stardard to build apps on proven technology that is not owned by a single vendor. You're free to build apps and ship them just like you are free to build a webpage and place it online without the need to request permission from Apple or Google.

* Many new internet users are browsing the web thru mobile devices. In some places, mobile devices are already 25% of the internet users and rising. But there was no platform that took HTML5 and the Web as a first class citizen. Firefox OS is a hero platform for the web to prove that it can work on a mobile ecosystem and that we can all use shared technology that is interoperable instead of doing this 1990s flashback of Obj-C here and Java there thing.

DISCLAIMER: I am a Mozilla Rep and I wrote a FOSS quick guide about how to
develop for Firefox OS at
[https://leanpub.com/quickguidefirefoxosdevelopment/](https://leanpub.com/quickguidefirefoxosdevelopment/)
that is helping lots of new Indian developers get ready for this launch ;-)

~~~
tsycho
While this is awesome, the bigger problem in India is that data plans are
often prohibitively expensive, and the people who can afford data plans prefer
swankier phones (since the phone is a status symbol). But this is a good
start, so best of luck :)

~~~
nairteashop
Just back from a trip to India (from there originally), and don't quite agree
with you that data plans are expensive. There is a lot of competition, and
both talk time and data are quite affordable IMO. I pre-paid for 1GB of data
and ~4 hours of talk time for just 250 INR (about $4).

Pretty much everyone in India - rich or poor - has a mobile phone these days.
However, unlike the service, phones cost just as much as they do elsewhere so
the poor usually end up using crappy feature phones with limited data support.
A $25 smartphone with full web support would make an incredible difference
IMO.

~~~
im3w1l
Presumably, a thin client will transfer more data than a thick client.
Potentially, making that cost significant.

Though maybe it has some clever caching system that reduces this?

~~~
rhelmer
I wouldn't call FirefoxOS a "thin client" (if that's what you meant) - it has
a concept of "packaged apps" in which the app and all its assets are packaged
and downloaded to the phone, and loaded from there. The built-in "certified"
apps (like Phone, Music, Calendar and so on) don't require loading anything
from the network at all, for instance.

You can think of FirefoxOS apps the same way conceptually you'd think of them
on Android/iOS, except they are always written in open web technologies
(HTML/JS/CSS).

App developers do have the option to provide "hosted" apps to the store (which
is basically a regular web page but without browser chrome), however even in
this case writing HTML5 apps that work offline is totally doable using
existing cross-browser standards.

------
GeneralMaximus
(Apologies for this rant. I'm just hoping someone from Mozilla sees this
here.)

I was very excited last year when I found out that there were phones running
Firefox OS that you could actually use. I was disappointed when I found out
that the only way to get my hands on the hardware in India was to _fly to a
different country, buy the hardware there, and fly back to India_.

It's been a year since that day, and I still haven't been able to get my hands
on a Firefox OS device (except briefly playing with a friend's Keon). I get
excited every time there's a Firefox OS announcement from Mozilla, only to be
let down by the inevitable "We're sorry, we don't ship this product to your
country."

If there's a good reason Firefox OS developer devices still aren't available
in India – one of the countries Mozilla is targeting with these phones – I'd
like to hear it.

I've built a couple of webapps for desktop browsers, and I really like the
idea of being able to use the same development stack on a mobile device.
Webapps on Android and iOS can do a lot these days, but there's always that
_one_ API that you need that is missing. I was hoping I could build something
fun with FirefoxOS, but I suppose I should just suck it up already and learn
how to use the Android SDK.

~~~
contingencies
Send me an email and I'll send you one for free.

~~~
GeneralMaximus
That's a very kind offer! Thank you :)

Unfortunately, I'll have to refuse. I'll probably just pick up one of these
$25 devices once they're out. (Or, I'll buy the Flame if it's ever back in
stock and shipping to India.)

~~~
contingencies
I'm glad you replied as someone else got in touch and expressed interest. I
said I'd wait until a week had elapsed or you'd got back to me. So it'll be
going to a good home, regardless... :)

------
hatred
For a $25 price tag, this has the potential to appeal to a lot of Indians in
the rural areas and being a potential rival to other in house android brands
like Micromax et al.

Even if they support the basic subset of functionality exposed by Android, it
should be more then enough for it do well. Looking forward to more updates on
the launch.

------
Zikes
$70 in the US.

When the FirefoxOS developer device was posted on here some time ago half the
comments were about how it was missing feature X or Y that Android or iPhone
has had for ages, and therefore it just couldn't compete.

A $70 price point doesn't put them in competition with other smart phones, it
puts Mozilla at the fore of a new class of customer.

~~~
caryme
I just bought a $69 Nokia Lumia 521 (Windows Phone) off contract. Mozilla
isn't at the forefront here - both Nokia/Microsoft and Motorola are driving
down the off-contract price point.

~~~
Gustomaximus
$25 for a smartphone is a massive step forward in accessibility on $69 when
you consider these guys might be earning $60 a month.

------
diafygi
I can't wait to start hacking with these. $25 in India puts these in the range
of raspberry pi, plus you get wireless and a touchscreen!

~~~
thoughtpalette
Definitely sounds like a lot of fun!

------
zhyder
What makes Firefox OS inherently more cost effective than Android? I doubt
you'd need a weaker CPU or less memory for the same amount of responsiveness.
Or is that it's possible for Android phones to be as inexpensive, but no one's
bothered creating a decent one at that price yet (just like no one bothered
creating even a decent $130 one until the Moto E).

~~~
abrowne
Fewer layers between machine and app -- just Gonk (linux layer) and Gecko
(application runtime). With Android, you have all the Android runtime in
between.

~~~
Pacabel
How do you figure there are "fewer layers"?

Both are built upon Linux. So we can say that they're pretty much equivalent
at that level.

Then there is a runtime and libraries providing common functionality above
that. Again, we have pretty much the same in both cases.

Then we have the apps running on top of that, making use of the functionality
of the two lower layers. Once again, it's a similar situation in both cases.

I really don't see the differences that you claim are there.

~~~
userbinator
And don't forget that HTML + JS + CSS came from a completely different use
case than Java, so there's a certain amount of parsing overhead too. Whether
or not there being more native code in FFOS can counterbalance this overhead
is yet to be seen, but it will be interesting to compare.

(In any case I would like to see more native code apps for mobile devices, as
they are naturally more resource-constrained.)

------
jestinjoy1
From Indian perspective it may not be a good decision for Mozilla to team up
with Intex and Spice. They produce phones priced cheap but their track record
in quality is not so good. People have become more quality conscious now. I
think it may end up like Tata Nano - cheap car but not many takers.

------
dpeck
Its a shame that Tmobile US has such odd gsm frequencies than the rest of the
world, and as such are unsupported by any of the FFOS phones so far.

With their embracing of prepaid plans combined with inexpensive smart phones
could really open up anytime information access for people who cannot
otherwise afford it.

~~~
b_emery
From: [http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/sim-card](http://prepaid-
phones.t-mobile.com/sim-card)

"T-Mobile’s network currently only supports GSM-compatible phones. Only 3G
phones that support the 1700-MHz band are compatible (not all 3G phones
support it). If you own a 3G phone that does not support the 1700-MHz band, it
will operate at 2G (EDGE) speeds on our network."

Do you mean that data rates with Tmobile will be slow? It seems to be
supported otherwise?

~~~
dpeck
Right, it would work. However the modern web, even when "optimized for mobile"
is usually a very frustrating experience on 2G, and even some 3G connections.

Stuck at 2G most would probably use the data very sparingly and be stuck using
whatever wifi they find.

------
brickcap
Why did they have to announce it just 2 days after I bought a new andorid
phone! I could have saved some money.

Joking aside this news is very exciting for me mainly because I will finally
have a good reason to try out pouch db.

One question that I have though is how the updates to the os are delivered to
the user? Are they managed by manufacturers or can any one with access to
internet just download it from a central repository?

A request: I implore that you keep a good stock of phones ready. Because I
don't want it to go out of stock after the first day at sale.

------
linux_devil
This segment has potential to crack into rural markets of India where "Nokia"
and chinese handsets rule . Too early to comment till features are not
released . Lot of chinese handsets provide loud music players and camera (
though not reliable).

------
anuraj
Respect for the endeavour. But India presents many challenges. The masses this
phone targets may not be able to use it effectively unless the UI is extremely
simple. Remember that India has most illiterates on the planet and the most
people who earn less than $2 a day. Smart phone penetration is a measly 10%
now though growing at a healthy 50% per year. This is despite smart phones
being made available at less than $75 price point already. Would be glued on
the ground.

~~~
DanBC
Mozilla has an opportunity to gather a lot of data about non-text usability.

Let's hope they can release that data in an open format to allow researchers
to make use of it.

------
Naushad
People in India are Brand concious like anywhere else, Intex and Spice do not
really command any good selling space in India. It would be better if Mozilla
works with Intex and Spice to just get the Hardware and Software done and let
the New brand name be Mozilla Or Firefox Phone something on Similar lines,
this way, the brand recall and brand recognition will be instant with regards
to the phone.

------
spike021
Is there a timeframe for release mentioned anywhere? I skimmed the BBC article
and the WSJ article it's sourced from but couldn't find one.

------
PhasmaFelis
What's with the scare quotes in the headline?

~~~
snori74
British news headlines seem to use these far more than I would expect.
However, in this case it's perhaps not unreasonable: These are not yet on sale
at that price; while the Mozilla COO "suggested" that they would retail at
that, it's not clear that he's the one setting the final price - and the
linked announcement actually does not include the $25 pricing.

------
hyp0
what are CPU/RAM specs?

------
known
Why India? Why not China?

------
enthdegree
Sakshat cellphone edition

