
Stop Freelancing - robertnealan
http://robertnealan.com/stop-freelancing/
======
bdunn
It really all boils down to risk management.

If you're a self-identified say, "Ruby freelancer", the value proposition is
"I am an independent Ruby developer for hire". For staff augmentation gigs or
applying for a FT position, this is all well and good, because whoever's
hiring is looking for warm bodies with specific technical capabilities.

However, many companies are looking to solve specific business problems and
might not know how. Simply hiring a developer who happens to know Ruby doesn't
guarantee that the problem will be solved — it's a huge risk. It's sort of
like saying, "all I need is someone who knows how to swing hammers if I want
to build my wife and I's dream home."

Mitigating that risk means stepping away from the "<technology> freelancer"
title and becoming a business consultant _who happens to use e.g. Ruby_ to
solve business problems. On your end, this is going to require less time spent
thinking about the technology, and more about the path to solving the
underlying problem at hand. From the perspective of a client, this is a much
safer bet. And when there's less risk involved, clients are willing to spend
more. And treat you more as a consultant. And you'll be happier, your closing
rates will go up, etc.

~~~
mjn
This really depends a lot on the business. Even for consultants, many
companies prefer to split business and technical consulting, sometimes
contracting them out separately, or sometimes just contracting one of them out
as needed. In that situation, they typically do _not_ want the technical
consultant involving themselves in the business case, because they were hired
to solve a technical problem, not to second-guess the role of the technical
problem in the hiring company's business. This is particularly common in large
companies hiring engineering consultants: a metallurgy consultant hired by
Exxon or BP to assist with a design or problem (actual example a friend does
regularly) is supposed to provide technical input on metallurgy as required,
not try to sell a company on the value proposition of Metallurgical Solutions.
Their value proposition is that they are an expert who can provide expert
advice and problem-solving in a specific technical domain.

~~~
twistedpair
If only the delineation was so clear, yet often I've be asked to implement a
technical solution to a political or social problem, where a technical
solution was not even needed.

~~~
jacques_chester

        No matter how it looks at first, it's always a people problem.
    

Gerald Weinberg, _Secrets of Consulting_.

~~~
jpelker
I <3 Gerry Weinberg. This book is one of my favorites.

------
jonnathanson
It really depends on what types of clients and gigs you want to take on, and
what sort of ambitions you have for yourself as a one-man shop. Do you _want_
to remain a one-man shop? If so, biting off more than you chew can be
hazardous to your health (literally). You don't want to land the Pepsi account
if you're not ready to handle Pepsi volume.

By presenting yourself as an agency, you might signal a higher degree of
professionalism and (theoretical) resources. You're more likely to get into
serious contention for those Pepsi contracts. At the same time, you might be
signaling yourself as being too big or too expensive for the thousands of
smaller, more easily attainable, ad hoc gigs that really do want an individual
freelancer.

And BTW - you really don't want large-scale engagements, the kind that
routinely go to actual agencies, if you're not running an agency. Those gigs
are designed for agencies with staffs and resources to deploy. There will be
more volume than you can handle as an individual contributor -- including all
the work involved in client management, reporting, schmoozing at the corporate
HQ, etc.

~~~
robertnealan
All great points. Personally, I am looking to grow my business to be more than
just me and it was one of my main motives to start presenting myself as a
business, it just happened to carry with it the beneficial side effect of
being seen in a more professional light (most if not all my clients are aware
I'm still the only full time employee).

Regarding taking on too large of a project should you wish to remain a one-man
shop - all I can say is that the projects you turn down are equally as
important as those you accept. You have to know both your abilities and the
limits of what you can do as one person.

Also, I'm more of a Coke person.

~~~
jonnathanson
I'm more of a Coke person myself. Funnily enough, my comment originally
referenced Coke. Then I realized I'd overused Coke as an example of "Generic
Big Company/Brand/Advertiser" too many times in my commenting history for
personal comfort. So I consciously switched to Pepsi this time around. :)

------
leknarf
In general, presenting yourself as a professional is essential, but it’d be
disadvantageous to act like a dev shop if you’re an individual.

In technology, there's a general distrust of "general contractor" style
operations. No one wants to hire a developer for $200/hr, only to have him
turn around and send the work to an off-shore developer for $20/hr. In fact,
most freelance contracts have "no sub-contractor" clauses that explicitly
disallow this.

Because of this mistrust, some clients don’t even consider working with out-
sourcing firms and instead actively seek out individual contractors. They want
professional contractors (you should have a LLC, a tax ID number, real legal
contracts, etc.), but want that professionalism to come with a human face. Any
individuals that are trying to compete with the dev shops are missing out a
big market that’s a more natural fit.

We’re actually running a startup
([http://getlambda.com/](http://getlambda.com/)) that represents professional
freelance developers and helps them find precisely these sorts of hiring
companies. If anyone is looking for help starting or expanding a freelance
business, we’d be happy to chat about what we’ve learned.

~~~
robertnealan
I'm not so much suggesting to act like a full dev shop as I openly disclose to
my clients that I'm the only current full time employee, but instead to
present yourself as a company to whom they can hire and get professional
results in return. Unfortunately this does admittedly get abused by people who
sub-contract work offshore, but unless your the new guy on the block your
portfolio generally starts to speak for itself.

Took a look at Lambda (good design work) - how do you differ from a good
recruiter connecting freelance contractors with 6-12 month gigs?

~~~
leknarf
I expect you're striking the right balance, but I've also seen cases where new
freelancers get too excited to be a "real company" that they start emulating
all the worst parts of large organizations and lose the benefits of
individuality. Startups are guilty of this too. There's a reason our website
has my email address on the home page instead of just a contact form. Anyone
who wants to contact us can reach out to me directly. We won't be able to
continue that as we grow, but it's a great advantage right now.

Regarding Lambda vs recruiters: we're complementary. A recruiter is usually
hired and paid by a company to fill a given role. We're hired and paid by a
developer to fill his freelance calendar. We screen clients to ensure they're
actually the types you want to work with, we negotiate on your behalf to get
you higher rates, and help you brand/position yourself to get you more work in
the future.

------
johnkpush
We prefer hiring consultants who bill us as a business rather than as an
individual. It's risky and more costly hiring and paying an individual
consultant:

* If an individual consultant gets injured, we'd have to pay the individual's worker's comp/unemployment benefits.

* When it's B2B, we don't have to worry about 'tax nexus'. If we're based in NY and hire an individual in California, we now have to register and pay some tax in state of California. Hiring a business erases that responsibility.

* The consultants who have a business are usually more serious and mature. Invoices are cleaner and the experience is more professional all around. Sounds cliche but it's true.

Edit: formatting

~~~
robmcm
I find that a lot in the UK, it's a lot better to get set up as a limited
company than a sole trader. Some companies and even industries won't touch you
as an individual. I guess it's related to the personal liability etc

------
skrebbel
This feels very culture-specific.

Purely anecdotally, I started freelancing a few months ago, and my experiences
are very different. I live in the Netherlands. Here, relatively few
programmers decide to freelance, and most who do clearly present themselves as
a one-man company, not just as "a guy". It's also impractical to freelance
without being registered as a business, so maybe the registration process
helps some starting freelancers "flip the switch".

Also, I've never experienced anything like pity, as the OP describes. Much
rather, people appreciate that I dare taking the comparatively high risk
involved (I don't think it's a high risk at all, but many people used to a
European-style safe job contract feel differently).

~~~
rodgerd
Definitely culture-specific. Freelancers are common in New Zealand, sometimes
as sole traders, sometimes as one-person companies (the difference is pretty
marginal, since setting up and maintaining a company in New Zealand is
relatively cheap). I did it for a little under a decade before deciding I was
a shitty employer for myself.

------
jsonne
I think it's an issue of signalling. In Econ they call it information
asymmetry. When one party knows more than the other they try to give us
"signals" to show their quality. It seems as though as packaging yourself as a
company you've managed to signal that it's a serious endeavor as opposed to a
passing freelance gig.

------
brennenHN
This is the kind of positive practical advice I wish there was more of on
Hacker News.

------
martininmelb
For what it's worth, if you do decide on a company, call it something modest -
and don't try to pretend that you're something that you're not or pretend that
you're bigger than you are. Seeing a business card that reads:

    
    
        John Smith
        CEO and President
        John Smith Global Design Enterprises
    

just does not cut it.

~~~
greenyoda
Also, "Suite 18A" in your address doesn't really impress people. Anyone can
change "Apartment 18A" to "Suite 18A" in their address, and their mail will
still be delivered to the same place.

And it's pretty obvious to a customer that if the "CEO" answers his own phone
and they never meet any of the CEO's employees, they're dealing with a one-man
operation that's putting up a fake front.

------
marknadal
While I haven't gotten a business license, I have found that regularly
increasing my hourly rate for new clients has done wonders, and moving from
hourly to then daily to weekly rates. I now position myself as a data and code
synchronization specialist, I guarantee my clients a seamless use of their
data and code no matter where it is, and this is enough value that people are
eagerly willing to pay. Be the specific solution for a company, then you'll be
in charge - not the other way around.

------
ndcrandall
The main differences between being an individual vs a company are the
intentions for which a client hires you.

Being 'Designer John Smith' attracts companies hoping to lure you in as a full
time employee eventually. This can be good for finding work when you don't
decline the possibility of full time work, but can burn bridges when you
decide to leave the client.

Being 'John Smith Design Studio' attracts clients looking to offload
development to another company in order to meet deadlines and get stuff done.

------
pvnick
This seems like a great idea, one that I've been tossing around in my head for
a while now. To the skeptics (of which HN has in droves), has anybody ever
gone in the reverse direction, ie, from having their own client-funded
business to being "freelance"?

~~~
scarecrowbob
I have. I consider it better insofar as it pushes some business development
problems off on other folks.

I am in demand enough that it's no problem finding remote projects and people
who are super happy to find someone who has better than average skills, and to
pay accordingly. Not to mention that I live in an inexpensive area of the US
close to a tech hub but with flexible employment laws.

It's a lot less of a headache as I don't have to sell to folks other than the
people who are, in turn, selling my skills. I just do the work.

While it cuts my rate by a lot (maybe 50% in most cases), that's a fine
tradeoff for picking up a lot of risk and uncertainty.

The problem is that, as a business, I had to deal with scaling and bringing in
more folks to do work if I wanted to grow or expand and deal with sales and
marketing just to stay in business. As a freelancer I make plenty of money at
my own schedule, but can't really make the next big income jump. I'm okay with
that for the next couple of years (my kids are finishing middle school),
though I imagine that at some point I will possibly get bored with the work
and, at that point, try and return to being a "business".

On a related note, though, I also rent my house for similar reasons.

------
Nursie
Meh. In the UK this line is non-existant. To be a freelancer you set yourself
up as a company (it's the most tax efficient way) so exactly whether you
position yourself as a body for hire or a solutions company is up to you.

If you want to be a solutions company then be prepared to be a salesperson as
well as engineer. If you want to be a body for hire then there are hundreds of
agencies that will do that part for you.

They're all assholes, but that's their job.

------
jakejake
I've never really thought that much about having a company just for branding
purposes. But, I've run my business as an official corporation for about 10
years now, even though I haven't been 100% freelance for all of that time.
There's some running costs for the corporation itself, but but it has a lot of
benefits, tax deductions being an obvious one.

Also if you don't have a corporate tax ID and bank account, then some clients
may insist on withholding taxes and pay you as regular employee, so that they
don't look like they're trying to dodge payroll tax. Again this affects your
ability to control your own salary and tax filing and you can avoid it by
billing them as an officially registered corporation with checks written out
to your company, not your personal name.

The corporation also helps if you bring on more people to help because you can
pay them properly with tax withholding and everything is legit. It's not
really that much work using an online Payroll service.

I definitely recommend it if you are earning more than a few thousand dollars
per year.

------
fencepost
I'm hoping to do this by the end of the year or soon thereafter, just so I can
start working on being an employee (W-2) of my own company.

My motivation was listening to Gina Trapani (of Lifehacker, etc.) talk on the
In Beta podcast ([http://5by5.tv/inbeta/73](http://5by5.tv/inbeta/73)) about
how she and her partner in applying for a mortgage basically were having to
leave out Gina's income because as a self-employed and 1099 contractor with
multiple revenue streams her "career" is too complicated in ways that banks
are just going to ignore/reject anyway.

I consider myself lucky in that I bought my home (and signed my mortgage) in
the waning days of my time at a midsize company, but I don't expect to live
here forever and with the way banking changed after 2008 I'm sure I'd have a
very hard time getting a mortgage now even if I was putting down 50% of the
purchase price up front.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
I went through that same thing -- managed to schlock through a mortgage just
as a contract was ending and I was going back to school. I've never missed a
payment or given the lender any reason to regret lending me the money - but
had I applied a month later, they would have turned me down.

I realize now that an elegant way to handle this type of situation is through
an LLC where my annual income is a separate fact from the on-and-off-again
nature of contract tech work.

------
krmmalik
Hmm. I have mixed feelings about this. I do agree with the sentiment but my
experience has been different. I think it depends on your target audience.
I've found when working with Start-Ups they prefer the personal touch and want
to deal with me as an individual. I can email from my gmail account, conduct
consultation over skype and even put smileys in my email.

I've found it very easy to attract and nurture leads.

When dealing with a conventional business however, everything changes. I need
a corporate email address, a limited company name, VAT reg and everything has
to be done in person. Even just getting a reply to my email is hard work.

Not to mention, even if I do get my foot in the door with an initial
consultation, convering that into paid work is seriously hard work because i
have to deal with things like being on an approved supplier list etc.

So yes, if your target audience is B2B (traditional) I'd agree, but if it's
consumer or start-up - not so much.

------
ChristopherM
Tl;Dr "Perception is 9/10 of reality"

This was a good example of how it can yield results when selling your
services. It's also very valuable if applied correctly to many areas of life.
As an employee, customer, a defendant in a legal case, when you are trying to
attract a mate, etc...

The important thing to remember is "how do others perceive me?". Based on that
"what can I do to change their perception?" Of course you need to figure out
what image you want to project; that image is also situation dependent.

------
bluedino
From the other side of the table - I might be much more likely to work with
"John Smith, Designer", than I would with "John Smith Design Studio".

Why's that? When I work with "John Smith, Designer", I'm getting John. When I
work with his design studio, he might be billing me for work done by his
intern or the guy he hires that isn't as good as John.

~~~
beachstartup
this is not a concern of actual customers who buy actual stuff for actual,
significant amounts of money from John Smith Design Studio because John Smith
Design Studio has an impressive portfolio and track record and client
references.

if not, well, you can simply just ask John if he's going to be the guy working
on your stuff.

------
dreamdu5t
I did the same thing. I freelanced under a company name, with most people not
realizing it was just me.

There's no reason not you really, the benefits are so numerious in how people
perceive you.

Honestly, I thought a lot of people did this. I'm shocked that this is a novel
idea to many freelancers in the comments. Branding _is everything_ as a
freelancer.

------
josh_rosenblum
One of the signaling effects this may have is that your corporate identity has
built up re-usable processes, code libraries, infrastructure, and other IP.
This itself can be useful both as a signal and practically. If you can talk
about the corporate identity having processes in place -- even something as
simple as a repeatable process for escrowing code -- this can be something
that a potential client can lock onto versus a "freelancer" with no repeatable
process. It may be an irrational bias, but I'd be willing to bet that most
prospects would be more willing to ascribe repeatability and predictability (a
key point in evaluating service providers, no matter the scale of the job) to
a corporate identity than to a personal identity.

------
wojt_eu
Disclaimer: below opinions based solely on personal experience

As a "freelancer who knows how to deliver and maintain software" I easily find
clients who understand prototyping, prioritization, shipping features
incrementally.

As soon as I try to market myself as "software company", every conversation
seems to start with – excuse my language – _estimating_ and _budgets_. What's
more, they ask to estimate something vague, "oh and here we do some reports,
maybe with charts".

I prefer estimating only small bits to inform decision at hand: do we refine
the design so that it looks less "Bootstrapy" (2 days) or add referrals
feature (3 days). And in my experience clients who embrace this style of work
seek "freelancers".

------
j45
There is a big mindset shift between freelancer, to contractor, to consultant
and beyond. All, however, can be relevant and it's important to know which one
you can provide and what a customer is looking for.

I have a post somewhere here on HN outlining it if I can find it.. :)

------
krrishd
In my case, it really worked the opposite way. When I was an 'agency', I
barely had any clients because they didn't feel personal. When I used my name,
they were more comfortable and were able to relate more, thus feeling more
inclined to hire.

------
karnajani
I thought we were calling ourselves consultants now.

------
jorisw
I freelance by my name and only my name because I think pretending to me more
than yourself is selling people BS.

The clients who hire me and have hired me are able to make the distinction
between a 'cute' freelancer and a professional who will deliver.

------
lsc
huh. Interesting.

The thing is? I have no trouble at all getting freelancing or "contract" work
where I'm paid by the hour, and where I'm expected to pretend like I want to
be a full time employee.

I mean, other than the pretending, I have no objections; usually the work is
easy and the pay is good.

The thing is, I like mercenary work, and I'm good at it (Most of the gigs I've
gotten, well, they seem to be looking for someone who wants full-time work but
can't get it without contracting for a while first. Generally speaking? I am
better than most people who can't get full-time work, and _way_ better than
most people who can't get full-time work, but who can pass the contracting
interview process.)

I have a business (and a business licence, and a corporation, and employees,
and health +workers compensation insurance, and actually rather more revenue
from hosting/VPS customers than I could reasonably expect to make from
consulting) - but I still don't have whatever it takes to get larger or more
monied companies to hire me as a company, rather than as a freelancer.

It's... odd, 'cause generally speaking? I don't hire people who aren't better
than me. If you can hire my company, rather than me? even if you are paying
rather more, you are getting a significantly better product.

Now, you could say, the primary difference is that when freelancing, often I
use a body shop. Which could be the case; but more than once, I've had a
manager call me back after I've left and negotiate a new deal (that he then
takes to the body shop) so I guess I'm a little unclear on what value the body
shop is bringing the client, so I have no idea how to go about replacing them
for my corporation. (the body shop is bringing me value in the form of giving
me access to clients who won't do business with my small company.)

Edit: note, I /can/ get gigs without a body shop, and flat-rate gigs, too...
but... the people I can sell to directly? Generally speaking, they have...
much smaller budgets. To the point where I end up making less money. A whole
lot less money.

So, that's my problem; it seems that the body shops are only set up to deal
with hourly work, and it seems that I lack something that companies with money
need in order to do business.

I have been called unprofessional, and eh, I have a hard time arguing... but
like I said, I do just fine; generally far above expectations when going
through a body shop, and I /do/ have an infrastructure for outsourcing more of
the professional bullshit.

To be clear, I'm not saying the body shop isn't bringing value to the
customer... just that I don't know what that value is.

~~~
joshyeager
First, let me say that I don't mean this to be offensive, and I'm trying to be
helpful to you.

As someone who occasionally hires consultants to solve urgent problems for me,
I would be nervous about hiring a company whose point of contact had a
communication style like yours.

When I need a problem solved, I want someone who understands exactly what I
need and who makes me confident that they will follow through and make sure
I'm successful. Those people start building that confidence from day one by
communicating clearly and making sure that I can understand them easily.

In contrast, your comment is verbose and uses a lot of non-standard
punctuation. That makes it hard to understand you. So my first thought is
"wow, I'm going to have to do a lot of extra work to make sure lsc understands
what I need."

I have no idea if that is accurate. But if one of your competitors was easier
to understand, I would probably pick them because I don't have the extra time
required to understand you and make sure you understand me over the course of
our whole relationship.

~~~
lsc
>I have no idea if that is accurate. But if one of your competitors was easier
to understand, I would probably pick them because I don't have the extra time
required to understand you and make sure you understand me over the course of
our whole relationship.

That makes sense. The thing is, I always thought that my writing was an
advantage, not a disadvantage. I mean, it's not perfect, or even very good by
English-major standards, but compared to your average salesperson, well, I
think highly of myself. You know how some people enjoy the sound of their own
voice? I enjoy my own writing.

The problem is that I'm writing for myself, not for the audience. Which is bad
communication, even when it is good prose.

>In contrast, your comment is verbose and uses a lot of non-standard
punctuation. That makes it hard to understand you. So my first thought is
"wow, I'm going to have to do a lot of extra work to make sure lsc understands
what I need."

Huh. I have always thought of most sales and management folks as not very good
at written communication. Even when trying to convey complex ideas, usually
their emails are all of two sentences, and often grammar errors make those
sentences nonsense without context.

This lines up with what you have said, though. If they are communicating in
two-sentence messages, maybe my three-page essays are not appreciated. No
matter what the reason, they /do/ communicate in soundbytes, and my insistence
on essays is... counterproductive.

If you are writing to communicate, and not just to read your own prose, the
whole point is being understood.

More to the point, it's irrational arrogance on my part to say that folks who
are better than I am at sales, which is essentially communication, are worse
communicators than I am.

You have... significantly changed my opinion of the consulting situation and
the direction in which I need to move in order to improve my business
communication. Thanks.

~~~
gridspy
Just to push you further in the right direction - you need to decide what you
want the email to accomplish. It should do that and no more.

Often you want them to arrange a consultation with you. So they just need a
taster of your solution that will leave them curious for more in person where
you can still adapt it to their requirements.

Once they are sold, stop selling and go for the close. Otherwise you might
talk them out of it.

Respect their time and keep communications short. That way they'll read every
word.

~~~
jpelker
Well put.

------
anovikov
I had a completely opposite experience. Nobody wants a company because
everyone thinks a company with simply hire a few Indians, make a 3x profit,
and add no value. Freelancer gets way better reception.

I even know a lot of consulting companies who pretend to be a bunch of
individual people, hiding the fact they are linked, and don't know any
examples of the ooposite - an individual pretending to be a company - and i
see no reason from a customer's perspective to prefer a company to an
individual unless they have a job so big/diverse that an individual can't do
it.

------
rbreve
My experience us the other way around, I have been working for my web dev
company for around 10 years, we had a lot of projects, but we also had a lot
of expenses, at the end I was working 12+ hours per day and not making that
much money. We had to close the company, now I am a freelancer, working less
hours from home and making more per hour. It is less stressful and I get to
pick the projects I like more. At the end it all depends, you can't generalize
for everyone.

------
StefanPatelski
I used to be one of those kid webmasters working from the basement of my
parents. Though I did technically have a company. So having a company doesn't
really mean anything.

~~~
castis
The base point of the article is that its all in how you market yourself.

------
kristofferR
I'm struggling with this, since it feels slightly like lying to call just
myself "we".

What should I answer when the clients ask who "we" are?

~~~
toggle
I can imagine some clients would find it disingenuous to have a company name
when it's just you, yeah.

This post was interesting because my current boss had the exact opposite
experience. He said when he dropped the "company/we" terminology he had been
using and was upfront about how it's just him, his relationship with clients
improved greatly. It probably all depends on the types of clients you have.

~~~
bdcravens
I think you can mitigate this by having a company name that doesn't imply size
("Newtech Associates"), avoiding cliche marketing copy and clip art photos
(generic hand shake, "We are committed to quality and teamwork"), and putting
your photo and info on your "About" page (and don't call it "About Us" of
course)

------
manismku
That's quite true. During past couple of months I have seen real talent is not
sitting in front of your desk and do coding. This way you can walk but can't
run. Everything depends how well you sell yourself and make good picture in
others mind. Ultimately your goal is presence outside your desk / room. I will
say what you have experienced is ground reality about how business works.

------
mprat
I get the marketing / branding aspect. From a contractor's point of view,
though, there still isn't any guarantee that the firm that is you that is
doing contract work will do quality work - there is no audit system other than
referrals anyway. I wonder why people are more inclined to refer companies
than individuals. Do companies incur more overhead for the client?

~~~
bdunn
Companies tend to project stability more than individuals.

I remember being a hard ass about ensuring that our office was full of life
whenever a prospective client came to visit. Even though my employees could
just as easily work from the corner coffee shop or home, the idea is: A
company with overhead and payroll is obviously doing something right and
likely more permanent than this freelancer I met working from his house.
Therefore, they're more likely to succeed.

The _perceived_ risk of failure is the #1 reason proposals are rejected. You
don't need a brick & mortar office or whatever to help mitigate that risk, but
it helps.

------
mikkom
> Behind the scenes barely anything has truly changed

This might be is different from country to country but legislation is usually
_very_ different when you are freelancing vs contracting as a company. So even
if the author doesn't understand it yet, when shit hits the fan he will (and I
don't want to sound too harsh but eventually with companies it always will).

------
mehmehshoe
This reminds me of a PandoMonthly talk with Chris Sacca:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqUG2_cmZ6I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqUG2_cmZ6I)

He talks about his "aha!" moment when he was broke and then realizes the
people he meets would rather see him as a part/leader of a team, and not an
individual.

The moments I refer to are between 32-36 minutes.

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PilateDeGuerre
Hey Robert,

Thanks the article and the debate it inspired.

Tell me, was picking a company name that Google attempts to auto-correct a
conscious choice? I couldn't get to your website just by searching for your
company's name on my first try.

Follow up: About how long do you think it will take Google to recognize I am
not making a spelling error and I am looking for your services?

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yaelwrites
I like this. It's all about positioning. I'm technically a freelance
writer/editor, but I've found that when I call myself a "content strategist,"
I can command much higher wages doing the exact same work (since I have to do
social, deep analytics, etc. as a writer anyway).

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etanazir
note in related post 'Investors don’t want to meet you. They wanted to be
introduced to you (42floors.com)' ...human beings have a default filter on
self promotion. If you are promoting a 3rd entity; even the shell 'myCo' you
can apparently circumvent the first layer of this defense.

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tobinharris
Love this story.

Robert has just re-marketed himself by simply switching his workspace and by
using a legal entity to represent himself.

These tweaks have had a positive impact on how he's perceived by clients, and
how he perceives himself. And now we can sell more confidently, earn more
money and have more fun. Win.

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christiangenco
Interesting. I've been toying around with this idea for a while, but
inexperience with starting a company is prohibitive enough to prevent action.

How is your current freelance shell company marketed? I'd love to see what
that website looks like, and how you advertise it differently.

~~~
mcdougle
I imagine he just set up an LLC or something to that effect, and made his site
look more professional, with a logo on it.

I can't imagine it's that difficult. People do it all the time for all sorts
of personal businesses.

I haven't looked into it in-depth as I'm not at that stage yet, but I
eventually plan to do the same thing -- although I hope to scale freelancing
into a much bigger business if at all possible

~~~
benburleson
Yes, there's a lot of information out there regarding this, but it's not too
terribly expensive to file for an LLC. When the business is actually just you,
it's basically invisible in regards to your tax situation. Just open a
separate bank account under the LLC's EIN so you don't have to spend as much
time tracking business income and expenses when you want the tax benefit of
those business expenses.

~~~
jtbigwoo
>> When the business is actually just you, it's basically invisible in regards
to your tax situation.

Not true. In the U.S. if you create an LLC or S-corp you can pay yourself a
salary and also pay yourself dividends (sometimes called distributions). Both
salary and dividends are subject to regular income taxes, but only the salary
is subject to payroll taxes.

The justification goes like this: if you were paying an employee, you'd pay
them a fair salary and then take some extra for yourself as the owner. The
owner's payment isn't technically a salary so you don't need to pay payroll
taxes on it.

Lots of single-person companies play games with salary and dividends to try to
drive their payroll taxes as low as possible. The IRS can crack down on those
owners that don't pay themselves a fair salary in an attempt to evade taxes.

~~~
mmagin
(I am not a lawyer.)

As I understand it, the real benefit of an LLC for what would otherwise be a
sole-proprietorship or partnership is if you do work where there's significant
liabilities you need protection from. e.g. you make products which are sold to
end consumers, end consumers are frequently dumbasses and hurt themselves, end
consumer decides to try to sue you for ridiculous amounts of money.

But to make this actually work, it's a big deal to keep the LLC's finances as
separate as possible from your own bank accounts, etc.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil#Fa...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil#Factors_for_courts_to_consider)

~~~
mikeho1999
(Also not a lawyer... just someone who has run a single-person "cute
freelancing" or "professional services" company for almost a decade now)

Not sure what you mean by "it's a big deal". It's critically _important_ to
keep the LLC's finances completely separate from... but the effort to do so is
not that high.

My limited understanding is that this varies from state to state, but at least
in California, all that's really required is for you to have a separate
business checking or savings account, and that receipts should be deposited
there, and expenses should be paid from there.

Having a separate Federal Tax ID isn't even required in California, although
it is definitely highly recommended. And at least in terms of trying to get a
business banking account, many banks will require it.

And @jtbigwoo, you can have a single-person LLC that is "disregarded" as a
separate tax entity from the IRS's point of view, which means any revenue to
the LLC would show up in your personal income tax (on a Schedule C), known as
"flow thru" accounting. That means that no, you don't necessarily have to pay
separate dividends and stuff just because you are an LLC.

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throwmeaway2525
Cheating a bit since I didn't read the article, but having been in and out of
that world for a number of years, there were always certain types of clients
who didn't want to hire a company--they only wanted to deal with individuals,
for reasons stated or unstated.

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mcv
I did this right away when I became a freelancer. Registered my own company,
which I understood to be necessary to send invoices. Got an office to work
from. But I'm still a freelancer. Or an independent contractor, but what's the
difference?

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thibaut_barrere
Funnily, around me the opposite is true: clients I know are actively avoiding
consultancies/companies in favor of freelancers, because some of those
consultancies have the bad reputation of selling gradually more low profiles
for expensive prices.

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damon_c
I don't have time for all that marketing stuff... I'm too busy freelancing!

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sciguy77
That is a fantastic point. Where would IDEO be if David Kelley didn't first
make the leap to David Kelley Design?

