
Hipsters on food stamps - nhangen
http://www.salon.com/2010/03/16/hipsters_food_stamps_pinched/
======
peatmoss
> They're young, they're broke, and they pay for organic salmon with
> government subsidies. Got a problem with that?

Nope.

1\. Food stamps are an excellent economic stimulus. That money goes back into
the local economy extremely quickly. On economic grounds alone, I'd support
expansion of this form of assistance. Better still, these programs usually
don't have a finite number of "slots" or a fixed allotment. Even if you don't
think someone is worthy of assistance, it's not like they are taking from
someone more worthy of assistance.

2\. The article seems to take issue with the age of the recipients. Do young
people--particularly young people who held up their end of "get educated, get
ahead" bargain who are now unemployed in the Great Recession--not need food?
As a person who feels like he caught the last rung of the opportunity ladder,
I feel terrible for people 5-10 years younger than me. The least we can do is
make sure they get through this with their health intact. If nothing else,
it's good business sense.

3\. The article also takes issue with what these people are buying / cooking.
I disagree that many of the items listed in this article are luxury goods. If
people can stretch their benefits (see #1), eat nutritious and veggie-rich
diet, AND do it with some panache, I'm supposed to be angry? Pfft.

In short, this article is rubbish and tries to be inflammatory. Worst yet, it
runs the risk of manufacturing outrage at a really good program.

If you qualify for food assistance, I highly encourage you take it and use it
to enrich your nutrition. I have literally needed to talk people, who were
scraping by and eating poorly, into taking assistance because they didn't want
to be "a burden on anyone."

~~~
lsc
>The article seems to take issue with the age of the recipients. Do young
people--particularly young people who held up their end of "get educated, get
ahead" bargain who are now unemployed in the Great Recession--not need food?

So... you are missing the reason why the author expects you to be (and many
people are) outraged.

It's class.

The thing is? Listen, for a moment, to the people who oppose college as a
tradeschool. (that is, everyone who makes arguments about how going to college
makes you a more broadminded person, and that you should go even if it doesn't
increase your market value.)

The value provided by College is at least partially a class marker. I mean,
depending on degree, it may also be a trade school, but it's also a class
marker. Having the resources to go to school for another 4 years, even if it
doesn't increase your market value, while I was working (both earning money
then, and increasing my market value for the rest of my career) implies that
you come from more money than I do. (well, at any rate, it implies that you
don't think money is very important, a view that is quite unhealthy for people
who don't have an adequate supply.)

The thing is? for whatever reason, the 'class marker' of college is no longer
enough, by itself, to get you a job. Either college has been weakened as a
class marker by all the poor people going through on loans, the economy is so
bad that there aren't enough jobs where the minimum requirement is being
middle class, or class just doesn't matter as much as it used to. (I mean, I
don't know which of those is true... but clearly, something changed. it used
to be that one could expect employment even after getting a degree in
underwater basket weaving. This is clearly no longer the case.)

The idea here is that if you went to college, well, you should be middle
class, right? and middle-class people don't need food assistance.

That, and the aforementioned hipsters are eating like middle-class people,
too. On food stamps. which is also going to do bad things to traditional
assumptions about class.

Maybe it's just that social class and money are less tightly coupled now? I
say that because I didn't go to college that no matter how much money I make?
I'll never be middle class. And you know what? I own a deep fryer. Not a big
one for turkeys that you use once a year; a little counter-top unit for
cooking frozen battered cheese sticks.

~~~
peatmoss
You're right that I'm not buying into the class model. And I think you've an
astute observation that money and class are not as closely coupled as they
once were. I tend to view things along the lines of "we have criteria (whose
validity I mostly accept) for determining need for food assistance; these
people meet the criteria; class distinctions be damned, give these people some
food."

The question of whether a four year degree is worthwhile is an interesting
one. When I graduated it certainly was. And those four years were pretty hard
financially for me. When I was a kid, my parents qualified for, but did not
accept (boo), assistance. Apart from a small amount of money from my parents
my first semester, my state school edumacation was funded by loans, grants,
scholarships, and my ability to make 'nix machines do things. I can point to
major turning points in my life where not having a college degree would have
been a non-starter. (I subsequently went to grad school to enter a field where
I make significantly _less_ money, but that was a matter of conscience and a
different story.)

So I feel it's hard to blame the 20-something college-educated person (I've
never met any underwater basket weavers), who grew up seeing slightly older
people get ahead by going to college... for going to college. We could take
the putative approach: "You should have predicted a long-lasting recession and
seen a coming phase-shift in the labor market." But I think that's silly.

The fact remains that there are a lot of people out of work right now, and
that people have to eat. I see both trends continuing. Wasn't there just a
posting a day or so ago here "confessions of a job destroyer" or something?
Software developers _are_ putting people out of work. That's good, in so far
as we find new and better things for those people to do.

Finally, as for fried battered cheese sticks (mmmm), I'm pissed that I can't
find the correct Futurama Youtube clip. You'll have to make due with the quote
I was looking for: "Heck, you're never too rich to enjoy a free turkey dog."

~~~
lsc
Oh, I'm not arguing with food aid. (I mean, I can see how one can take issue
with government subsidies in general, but I agree that food aid to low-income
folk is probably the best bang you are going to get for your subsidy 'buck'[1]
and, well, it's hard to argue against food for the hungry when you are well
fed without being an even bigger asshole than I am willing to be.)

I was just pointing out what I think the reason for outrage was.

(to be clear, middle-class people have nothing against subsidies... they just
prefer their subsidies in the form of tax loopholes. The outrage here is that
culturally middle-class (but financially lower-class) people were taking
subsidies intended for culturally lower-class people, and using those
subsidies in the way you'd expect a culturally middle-class person to use
them.)

[1]I scare quote 'buck' there because I'm talking about the total cost of the
subsidy; not just the monetary cost, but also the market distortion cost. both
should be considered before we decide a subsidy is worth it.

------
bitwize
Actual beggar sign on the streets of cambridge:

"Homeless, broke, heading to Oregon"

