
How to Be Better at Parties - mhb
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/be-better-at-parties
======
sdegutis
The fact that this kind of article needs to be written in the first place
seems to confirm that there's so many basic things that people just don't
learn how to do anymore, because exponential advances in technology have
changed our lives so drastically that we just no longer run into the
situations where we would organically learn those things.

Especially with the internet, it's easier than ever to shut yourself in and
never go out into the real world and have real meaningful interactions, while
still feeling like your online life is full of real, meaningful interactions.
Just immerse yourself into a sub-community filled with 2k people, and you feel
like a social butterfly.

And it's not just social lives. Things like learning how to interact in basic
ways with your cashier at the store, or how to make new friends outside of
work, so many of us just don't know how to do this, because our heads were in
The Cloud™s while we texted and browsed reddit in line at the grocery store.

Things have even changed profoundly _within a single generation._ When I was
in school, Tamagotchis were the thing. When my little brother was in school,
his teacher was using YouTube to teach them. Now my son is in high school and
all his classmates have Android phones, which are such a game changer that
they aren't even allowed to even have them turned on in school.

And going back a little further, my oldest son and daughter have The Dangerous
Book for Boys and The Daring Book for Girls which teach stuff that 100 years
ago everyone knew, and now you need to buy novelty books to learn, despite
many of the skills and tricks these books teach still being useful.

~~~
andrepd
I think you're projecting and making broad assumptions with no evidence, based
on your feel and the ever present "back in my day" syndrome. People have been
awkward and people have been sociable before the internet, and people are
awkward and sociable after the internet. Today you have people with their
heads buried in their phones, 100 years ago it was newspapers. There is no
qualitative shift, at least I will not proclaim so without evidence.

And yes, this article is patently ridiculous. Way to overthink something that
should be about relaxing and having fun.

~~~
chrisco255
I'm a senior millennial (mid-80s kid) but I can tell you, anecdotally, that
younger generation is more addicted to their phones and devices than my gen
ever was. There was a car accident in front of my younger cousins' house where
a car hit a fence and literally flipped over. While me and my uncle/aunt and a
few others called for help and chatted about the event...my younger cousins
were busy texting the event to their friends. It was as if they were there,
but not really there.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _my younger cousins were busy texting the event to their friends. It was as
> if they were there, but not really there._

Sounds like they were meaningfully interacting with their friends.

Back before the internet, they'd have probably rushed inside and fought over
who got to use the phone to call their friends first, and describe the
incident outside over the phone to them.

~~~
bizkitgto
> Sounds like they were meaningfully interacting with their friends.

That's a meaningful interaction to you - texting?

~~~
yesenadam
Why would you think it's not? What point are you trying to make? as it seems
obviously a 'meaningful interaction' to communicate with someone. (disclosure:
I don't have a mobile phone, have never sent a text)

------
orev
ITT: People who don’t understand that other people are socially awkward and
actually need to be taught skills like this (ranging from regular nerds to
those on the spectrum), who don’t realize that “just be yourself” is terrible
advice to anyone asking questions on how to be social.

It’s not just a modern problem caused by phones.

Maybe if you think about this in context of tech conferences, that will help
you get more use out of it.

~~~
smsm42
> who don’t realize that “just be yourself” is terrible advice to anyone
> asking questions on how to be social.

To me that sounds like - "how do I learn to drive?" \- "Just be yourself!" or
"how do I train to run a marathon?" \- "Just be yourself!". Yeah, thanks for
the advice.

~~~
kbob
"How do I learn three new programming languages in a weekend?"

"Just be yourself."

Great advice, thanks! (-:

~~~
smsm42
_That_ I probably could pull off. For some loose definitions of "learn" at
least :)

------
_hardwaregeek
The best way to learn this stuff is to travel alone. When you travel, you have
to learn to be that weirdly gregarious person who introduces themselves to
random people. You'll also learn that if people think you're weird for doing
exactly that, well that's their problem. Unless you're trying to befriend a
bunch of middle schoolers, you're not going to get ganged up on by a group of
people for smiling and making small talk.

~~~
cortesoft
I don’t know; I have traveled alone and end up going the whole trip without
talking to anyone, so I don’t think it forces you to be social if you aren’t
trying.

~~~
paulddraper
Traveling alone bifurcates based on personality.

Extroverts become more so. Introverts become more so.

~~~
lardo
In day to day life I have a tremendous amount of social anxiety. When
traveling alone I feel free to be open and generally ridiculous as the
repercussions of a social faux pas are limited.

~~~
cortesoft
I guess it depends on why you are introverted; for me, I actually don’t have
any social anxiety. I feel very comfortable being myself and am not worried
about what others think. I choose to be alone because I enjoy it and it
relaxes me.

------
tengbretson
On the bright side, reading this article was easily 10x more awkward than even
the worst party I've been to.

------
joshuak
Personally I detest people who interact with others in a programatic way. Not
perhaps the people themselves, but this kind of behavior. I feel compelled to
snap my fingers in their face and say "WAKEUP! We're right here talking, stop
performing!"

Please, please, please stop trying to be pleasing to other people. Just relax
and be yourself. Performed, goal oriented, behavior at parties is hugely off-
putting to me and most people I know (although I don't live in New York, so
ymmv).

You may say something that's upsetting to someone, or is brilliantly
insightful, or in retrospect obviously silly. So fucking what!? IT'S A PARTY,
not a convention. It's this kind of attitude that there is a "right" way to be
social that contributes to social anxiety. Fucking stop it!

~~~
cryoshon
>Just relax and be yourself

nah. socializing is performing by necessity.

"being myself" would entail picking apart people when they say silly/ignorant
things regarding religion, science, etc. it'd be interrupting people and
explaining how their favorite TV shows are full of holes. how their prattle
about celebrities speaks to the emptiness of their heads. it'd be playing the
devil's advocate when nobody is looking for a balanced discussion. it'd be
going on long monologues on various topics. these are not endearing traits to
have. i know that i wouldn't want to be around such a person for long.

maybe this is why social interactions can't be relaxing for some people. once
you know that being yourself and "relaxing" is extremely grating on other
people, you know to keep it tightly under wraps, which circumvents any
relaxation in social situations.

~~~
dennisgorelik
> picking apart people when they say silly/ignorant things

That may be a good thing.

Most people would feel discomfort [from your attempt to pick them apart]. In
this case you would learn not to speak with them.

Some other people would enjoy thoughtful discussion with you. These would be
your new friends.

But if you try to put your polite mask on - it would be hard for you to find
new friends, even if there are matching people at that party.

~~~
watwut
His point was that he is making effort not to be dick over unimportant matters
to people who don't enjoy that. Because all in all, what he described was not
looking for throughtfull discussion and it seemed to be intentionally so.

I for one, appreciate effort and am willing to reciprocate. If he don't
explain me why my favorite shows are dumb, I will not insult his shows.

You also assume that people who take others apart don't mind the same being
done to them. In my experience, they typically like to pick apart others, but
can't handle being picked apart.

~~~
upvotinglurker
> In my experience, they typically like to pick apart others, but can't handle
> being picked apart.

Yes. cryoshon even states in his post that he wouldn't want to be around a
person like himself. So he's only allowed to interact with masochists who like
being constantly criticized while never criticizing back, because anything
else would be "fake"?

------
k__
I simply ask people what led them to the party in the first place.

This normally leads to converstaions about their friends, then hobbies and
lastly jobs.

Either I have (had) some similar interests/frieds/job or I just show general
interest for parts of their lifes.

The main point that helped me in such coversations simply was: Not having a
goal.

I don't care if I just have one conversation, find new friends, a hookup,
business contacts or whatnot. I simply try to learn about peoples lifes and
appreciate the conversation.

Somehow this elevates one already above 90% of dudes who talk to someone at
parties...

------
vorpalhex
This reads like it was written by someone terrified of even potentially
offending others.

A good trick if you have trouble striking up conversation or finding what to
talk about: FORD - Family, Occupation, Recreation, Dreams. Once you have a
conversation going, just let it flow of course - but it's a trick to get past
the initial "hello" stage.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>A good trick if you have trouble striking up conversation or finding what to
talk about: FORD - Family, Occupation, Recreation, Dreams.

These are bad conversation topics if you don't have a similar background as
most of the other people at the party. The point is to connect with people.
Highlighting your differences is not the way to do this.

~~~
shoguning
Yeah, I disagree with FORD totally.

FORD is heavy and personal. The point of small talk is that it's small and
light. You have to make sure you trust a person before you start talking about
personal stuff.

Small talk is about progressive disclosure. You make the conversation a little
bit more personal and see if the other person reciprocates--but you have to
start small, that's the whole point. If someone started out asking me about
FORD I'd think they were odd/awkward or maybe snobby.

~~~
tudelo
You think asking about what someone does 40 hours a week is odd/akward/snobby?
Dreams might be a bit heavy, but occupation?

~~~
shoguning
Yes. It depends on delivery, but it can come across very snobby when class
differences may be involved. I've noticed when talking to 'upper class' people
they often lead with asking about occupation, as if they're trying to guess
how much money I make, or trying to figure out if I'm 'worth knowing' in their
estimation. Reading too much into it? Maybe, but I'm sure some other people
feel the same way if I do.

I make a point to never ask, unless it's a work scenario (conference/meetup).
Besides, there's usually something more interesting to talk about.

~~~
vorpalhex
Shame about bluntly discussing salary is one of the greatest tricks the rich
have played on the poor.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Salary is irrelevant to it. We're talking about how it's uncomfortable and
generally not advisable to say "well I own a canoe that's painted up for duck
hunting" when everyone else it talking about their yachts. It's a class thing,
not a money thing.

~~~
vorpalhex
> generally not advisable to say "well I own a canoe that's painted up for
> duck hunting" when everyone else it talking about their yachts

Why? The goal of most social conversations is to find a common thread, and if
your commonality with this mustache twirling yacht owning theoretical is that
you have a little canoe you enjoy taking duck hunting, then you at least have
the beginnings of your thread.

Wealth and it's presence or absence is not indicative of social or moral
worth, nor is socializing about "besting" the other person with your knowledge
of imported French brandy. You may well talk to the person for five minutes,
get through the usual pleasantries, and find you have nothing at all in common
and part ways - or you might both settle on talking about small game hunting.

------
ai_ia
I don't why this post is getting so much hate. I liked the article and it has
some good points.

------
rootedbox
Always be late. Grabbing a drink / food is a perfect time to start an intro
convo with someone that you'll have a real convo with later on in the party.
Don't talk about yourself ask questions of others. Don't bring up work. Don't
drink too much. Look for opportunities to help others (grab them a drink..
offer direction.. etc. but avoid man-splanning).

Most importantly have a good time. If your not.. then leave.

~~~
stronglikedan
> Always be late.

Unless you don't know anyone there except for the hosts. It's always easier to
let them introduce you to the first few people through the door while the
atmosphere is still calm. From there, you already have an "in" with the rest
of their friends that show up later.

~~~
rootedbox
Will have to disagree. It's even better when you only know the hosts to be
late. Most people at a party don't know each other they are all getting to
know each other. If you come in late.. some folks will already be looking for
new people to talk to, and you'll essentially be "new kid in class".. aka
someone new and exciting to talk to.

------
hyperman1
This reminds me of a few passages in the 2 Feynman books ("What Do You Care
What Other People Think?" and "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!"

At the beginning of "what do..", Feynman's mother gives very practical advice
on how to treat women well and how to behave at parties. In "Surely..", when
he is in a student club, the guys who always study and the guys who always
party decide to teach each other the skills from the other side.

Both passages struck me about how society cared about teaching people the
necessary social skills. Part of what made Feynman shine was that he could be
social as well as smart. It seems his environment and upbringing cared deeply
about these skills and think about them as skills: Being social would not come
automatically, and needed teaching and practices.

To me, this article demonstrates what happens if society think social skills
do come automatically, and tries to wallpaper over the cracks if it fails.

~~~
yesenadam
So, what was his mother's advice?

~~~
hyperman1
Sorry, I dont have the books around at the moment

------
lordCarbonFiber
One suggestion that I think the article misses is "host parties".

I struggle a lot with social anxiety, but hosting brings everyone into a safe
known space, you can always duck out to do the "jobs" the article suggests,
and you learn a lot about how to manage the flow of people, set things up so
everyone has a good time, and have an easy in to pretty much any conversation.

Hosting a good gathering (be it a small dinner or a drunken bash) is an
important skill that's often overlooked.

~~~
marsrover
I hate hosting parties much more than going to them. If I am hosting them, I
have to wait until everyone leaves before I can go to bed. If I'm not hosting
them, I only have to wait as long as I like.

------
oconnor663
> If you can bear it, go solo, and watch the other guests make a beeline
> toward you.

This advice seems heavily skewed towards attractive people.

~~~
nicoburns
Not necessarily. I've often found that if I set by myself for long enough at
parties then usually someone will come along and start a conversation. And I'm
male and not remotely attractive. The trick is to sit somewhere it it doesn't
look like your awkwardly not joining in, but purposely choosing to be.

------
tlrobinson
If you find this article absurd, as many commenters here apparently do, then
perhaps it wasn’t written for people like you.

------
jmchuster
For those of you confused, the parties being described here are ones that you
"walk into one but don’t know a single person there...or perhaps you’re only
vaguely connected to the host". Though some of the advice given would be
helpful even in a BBQ with a large group of your friends.

------
forkandwait
I was shy once. I took a couple of theater classes at the community college
and read Dale Carnegie. After that social situations are easy (

I can still get anxious for what I think are good reasons : like big
socioeconomic differences or it is a professional event or whatever . But just
meeting new folks or speaking is no problem now.

------
Nursie
> Who among us, save the most self-sufficient and confident partygoer (and who
> is that insufferable person, anyway?), wouldn’t like to party better?

I think I gave up caring about this about 10 years ago.

\--edit-- Actually I don't think I ever cared about this, I was probably that
person, because I was too interested in just enjoying myself to be bothered
what my party-rating would be at the end of the night. I think I gave up
caring about parties at all a few years ago.

~~~
jonknee
It's not about having a party-rating, it's about having a better time at
social events. If you don't like social events then that is an even better
reason to want to be "better" at them.

~~~
Nursie
I'm not sure it is, it seems to be focused on making other people think well
of you.

> If you don't like social events then that is an even better reason to want
> to be "better" at them.

I like social events, I'm just not really fussed by mass gatherings so much
any more. Further, why would I want to be 'better' at something I'm not really
bothered about? That seems a little perverse.

I don't care for oysters. I'm not sure that means I should spend time studying
how to eat them better, there are plenty of things I do like.

~~~
jonknee
> I don't care for oysters. I'm not sure that means I should spend time
> studying how to eat them better, there are plenty of things I do like.

Oysters aren't an unavoidable part of life?

~~~
Nursie
Neither are parties are they?

I mean, I'm fine with them,I don't actively avoid them and I don't get anxious
or have a terrible time. I just find them less appealing as I get older,
especially when compared to having a good time with a small crowd of friends.

------
drivingmenuts
Wow. What kind of parties do these people go to? Ensembles? Gifts?

Hell, I'm happy if I remember to bring my lucky D20 and not the metal one that
destroys tables.

~~~
pyromine
What kind of "party" do you bring a d20 to? I think your experience might be
an outlier, most of this advice seems extremely pertinent to the events I go
to.

~~~
nostoc
Adventuring parties, obviously.

As long as you have a cleric you're good.

------
AceyMan
I've not read all the comments yet (nor TFA) but my spouse works in Tinseltown
— where _major_ deals might be enabled by mixing at social functions — and her
guiding tenet is "The 50/50 Rule," which is basically what it sounds like:

'Aim for the ratio of your conversation time (or word count) to be equal to
that of your fellow conversationalist.'

Meet someone who has an interesting career / hobby / culture, but they only
speak in single sentences? Game on, then, for you to draw more out of them!
Likewise, a dullard with no original ideas or fun topics to draw on? — hey,
it's up to you to find a way to make them hold up their half (without their
knowing, obvi).

It took me some time to adapt and get the hang of it, but I must admit that
it's made my abilities in the casual or friendly (e.g., "annual friends")
social settings much stronger. You'll also find that people will remember
_you_ as being fun to chat with and they'll be more likely to catch up with
you intentionally when or if you again cross paths.

Highly recommended.

------
bartkappenburg
Dutch (birthday)parties are so weird for foreigners that every other party
seems like a walk in the park (saying this as a Dutchman who is used to it):
[https://dutchreview.com/culture/dutchness/how-to-
celebrate-y...](https://dutchreview.com/culture/dutchness/how-to-celebrate-
your-dutch-birthday/)

~~~
SubMachineGhost
It's a bit similar in France too, on your birthday, your nameday or any happy
occasion YOU ARE the one who is expected to bring pastry, cake and drinks to
your office, and buy everyone drinks at launch.

~~~
nerfhammer
Sounds like the right thing to do is to just not tell anyone that it's your
birthday...

------
pasta
One simple trick to start a conversation is to ask about someones hobbies.
Because this is what people like to talk about.

Tried this a lot of times and it always works. Most of the time the
conversation will go into other interesting directions.

------
Camillo
If you get invited to parties, you're already halfway there.

------
ricefield
In this thread: broad generalizations about society, generations, and
socializing based on mostly anecdata and personal experience.

------
typon
New York journalists are somehow more socially awkward than SV programmers

------
rm_-rf_slash
I feel like this was meant to be a tongue-in-cheek fluff piece for the New
Yorker but took a wrong turn at 42nd Street.

------
coolso
Wow, the NY Times sure is hip and cool, am I right my fellow hip and cool
college-aged young adults?

------
LandR
People will really overthink everything won't they...

~~~
mhh__
_Ask HN: What 10x socialising as-a-service do you use to manage your party
hacks_ ?

------
hotgoldminer
Are people upvoting this or have several people simply tried to post it?

------
rb808
This is so classically a big difference between men and women. Most guys here
will laugh at the advice because they never think like this - just turn up and
drink a beer. Women know better.

~~~
gowld
That's an inaccurate gender stereotype.

