
Microsoft Office 2019 will only work on Windows 10 - maxkdave
http://www.blog.descasio.com/microsoft-office-2019-windows-10/
======
red_admiral
To be honest, I would have been much more surprised if they'd spent time and
money to support older versions as well. I mean, Win 7 mainstream support
ended at the end of 2014 I think with extended support to end in January 2020.

Conclusion: entirely legitimate business decision?

~~~
Silhouette
They're entitled to make whatever business decisions they like, but of course
those of us who don't want anything to do with Windows 10 won't now buy their
new product in this case, so only time will tell whether the business decision
has the effect they're hoping for. Microsoft's strategy under Nadella seems to
be shifting towards the extremes of enterprise-scale customers and lightweight
home users at the expense of the SMEs and power users in between, so this
decision seems consistent with their recent pattern.

~~~
Cyph0n
What exactly is wrong with Windows 10 though? In my opinion, it has been a
huge improvement over Windows 8/8.1. Also, the Linux subsystem feature seems
pretty usable to me.

~~~
cm2187
The list is long but top reasons for me after having used it for a while:

\- start menu completely random. Like typing "upd" doesn't display anything
but typing "update" shows windows update. And the behaviour doesn't seem to be
stable. Sometimes old control panels show, sometimes not. Seems to be erratic
through time and across different machines.

\- microsoft dropping unwanted apps regularly in the start menu. Candy crunch,
all sort of ads for sponsored software

\- Frequent forced reboots

\- Microsoft trying to force my hand on everything. Like default apps, making
it difficult to change the default or for videos and images requiring me to
confirm on every single different file extension one by one, or not allowing
to select an app by its file path for all images or videos (only allowing me
to pick from a shortlist of useless apps), making it difficult to create local
accounts, all these multiple opt out confirmations are annoying. No means no.

\- telemetry

\- two control panels and making things worse, settings progressively moving
between the two such that the location of a setting is unpredictable. The new
control panel often gives the feeling of having been simplified (which in
itself is fine) but also to hide the access to more advanced options (not
fine).

\- generally speaking the big buttons, all grey UI is not particularly
pleasant

\- many small usability features. Like when prompting for credentials, the RDP
client doesn't allow you to access the username and password boxes with the
keyboard, you have to select them with your mouse. It feels unfinished.

\- I haven't had blue screen for a long time on windows 7, while it has become
quite common on windows 10

\- repeated interruptions. The OS should be discreet and not be interrupting
your workflow unnecessarily. They since removed the full screen notifications
in windows 10, but didn't for Windows Server 2016.

There are notable improvements too. Like finally being able to copy-paste in
command lines was long overdue. The server features are also much better
(hyper-v, powershell functionalities, IIS, etc). But on balance I think it
provides a poor experience. I am not saying Windows 7 is perfect either, it
comes with its own annoyances but I think it's not as bad.

~~~
Someone1234
I just want to agree with your point about search. Search on Windows is
horribly broken, unreliable, and poorly designed. But in my opinion it has
been in that state since at least Vista and they've only managed to make it
worse every release. Integrating Cortana took something barely functioning and
piled on complexity.

If Microsoft were to "delete and start again" on two areas, for me it would
have to be Windows' Search and the Printer stack. They're almost impressive in
their terribleness. I literally use Notepad++'s file search for file content
and FileLocator Pro for filenames instead of Windows search because it is more
consistent, reliable, and faster.

I actually had a conversation with a Microsoft employee at a conference who
then worked on search in Windows 7. And after that conversation I absolutely
understood why it was in the state that it was in. He believed it was bad
because it wasn't complex enough, wanting to pile in even more supported file
type filters and expanding language services. Both of which they wound up
doing in Windows 8, making it even more complicated and unreliable.

~~~
cm2187
By the way on search (not in the start menu, in explorer), do you know why it
is so slow? It can sometimes take minutes to search for filename in a network
drive when listing all files in the same drive in c# takes seconds (and if you
even dare to change how results are sorted, it would reset the search from
scratch...). That's not specific to Windows 10, Windows 7 does the same. It
seems to be doing all sort of unwanted stuff but I don't know what and I don't
know how to turn them off to only search by file name.

~~~
ZenoArrow
> "By the way on search (not in the start menu, in explorer), do you know why
> it is so slow?"

I've given up using it. A work colleague recommended Agent Ransack and I've
been happily using that ever since.

------
tome
Why not link to the original article?

[https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsitpro/2018/02/01/...](https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsitpro/2018/02/01/changes-
to-office-and-windows-servicing-and-support/)

------
kqr
This kind of makes sense. I mean, sure, never breaking backwards compatibility
is a great way to get popular, but you also end up with systems that are
inflexible and hard to maintain.

Also, Microsoft Office 2019 somewhat looks like the title of a science fiction
thriller.

~~~
nofilter
Science fiction thriller with a bad ending.

------
al2o3cr
The real question: will Office 2019 produce documents that can't be read in
older versions? It's one thing to say "you need the latest OS to run the
latest Office" but another thing to say "everyone you interchange documents
with needs the latest OS and the latest Office"...

~~~
NickGerleman
I've worked on Office. There's a ridiculous amount of effort put into file
format backwards compatibility. Someone I know had to consider Office 2007
compatibility when working on a feature within the last year.

------
gruez
Considering windows 10 is the only windows that's not in extended support,
that's not too unreasonable.

~~~
ThePadawan
Sort of misleading:

Both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 are still in extended support
([https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-
lifec...](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-
fact-sheet)), and of course the older versions are _no longer_ in extended
support.

So Windows 10 is the only version _not yet_ in extended support.

~~~
tw04
>So Windows 10 is the only version not yet in extended support.

Given that MS has said they're moving away from major version numbers, it's
not in any way misleading. Windows 10 will continue to get incremental updates
into the indefinite future. MS has intimated it may be the last major version
ever, although that's not a hard commitment.

~~~
beojan
They haven't moved away from major version numbers, "Windows 10" is just the
product name now (like Mac OS X used to be). The major version is "Fall
Creators Update" etc (monthly updates provide the equivalent of minor
versions).

~~~
tw04
That's patently and provably false. "Creators update" is the same thing as a
service pack, _NOT_ a major revision. Major revisions as follows:

    
    
    		Windows 10	29 July 2015	NT 10.0
    		Windows 8.1	17 October 2013	NT 6.3
    		Windows 8	26 October 2012	NT 6.2
    		Windows 7	22 October 2009	NT 6.1
    		Windows Vista	30 January 2007	NT 6.0
    

"Fall Creators Update" is version 10.0.16299

~~~
dingo_bat
Creator's update is nothing like a service pack of yore. A defining feature of
service packs was that they didn't have any new feature. Only bug fixes and
stability/security. Creator's update is a bigger upgrade from base Win10 than
Win10 was from Win8, in terms of features.

~~~
paulmd
> A defining feature of service packs was that they didn't have any new
> feature. Only bug fixes and stability/security.

Pretty much every service pack includes new features.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#Service_packs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#Service_packs)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista#Updates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista#Updates)

------
JohnJamesRambo
I still use Microsoft Office 2010 at work and it does everything I need it to
do. It if it was up to me I'd go backwards. Every newer version seems worse
than the last for my use cases. I'm a scientist and I just need to crunch
numbers in Excel and write papers in Word.

~~~
adtac
This is completely non-malicious: why are you writing papers in Word instead
of more advanced typesetting tools like LaTeX?

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
Haha oh man. I don't think a single human in academia I work with even knows
what that is. We don't need typesetting tools, we just write the text and
provide figures and the journal does the typesetting, etc. It just needs to be
as easy as possible and looking up LaTex that seems to be a bizarre
abstraction that seems even more difficult than typing in Word.

~~~
cozzyd
You must be in a very different field than me.... If someone posts a word
document on the arxiv, it's almost a reason to ignore it as unprofessional.

~~~
dingo_bat
If people are judging research by that criteria they are idiots. I'd prefer
not to associate with or gain approval of such persons.

~~~
cozzyd
It's more about conforming to the standards of the field. I can think of maybe
one or two articles written in Word that I've seen on the arxiv ever (maybe
it's different outside hepex and astro?).

------
alkonaut
The beauty of windows is that the newest version of windows runs the oldest
programs. Not the other way around.

------
b212
I moved to OS X from Windows 7 around 6 years ago and I really missed the
Windows at first. But then checked 8.1 and had no regrets, the thing was awful
UX-wise, they tried to break my patterns but why?

The only company I partially trust with my data is Apple and I think if I'd
have to switch back to Windows right now I'd pick 7 - because it wasn't
integrated so well with the Internet and it had no Metro.

What sucks today is the fact that I feel the OSes are gradually getting worse
from user perspective - excepting Linux distros - macOS is way less stable and
secure than 6 years ago when I first joined the club and Windows after 7 feels
like rushed job, just like with ME/Vista.

~~~
romanovcode
> What sucks today is the fact that I feel the OSes are gradually getting
> worse from user perspective

Windows10 UI is the same as Windows7. I don't get what you're saying here.

> excepting Linux distros

Linux is by any means objectively the worst UI for end-user. Otherwise the
year of linux desktop would arrive.

~~~
dingo_bat
I was surprised to learn that you can't even move the taskbar to another
position on the screen in Ubuntu, which is supposed to be the most user-
friendly Linux.

~~~
pritambaral
"User-friendly" doesn't have to mean "user-empowering", just that it can be
used without too much effort. In fact, all examples (that I can think of) of
OS UX changes that were supposedly made to be more user-friendly, took away
power/choice/features from users. From Windows 10 to OS X.

In the world of Linux DEs, allowing the user to change the DE is considered a
"power-user" feature. Sounds quite the opposite of "user-friendly", doesn't
it?

~~~
romanovcode
> In the world of Linux DEs, allowing the user to change the DE is considered
> a "power-user" feature.

The thing is 99.5% of computer users do not care about any of that.

------
ocdtrekkie
Big highlight note: Folks on Windows 7... probably not in a huge hurry to have
the latest and greatest version of Office either. Except for the lack of
security updates, Office 2007 would still be "good enough" for most users
today. 2010 is still a supported, secure version of Office that does
everything most people need it to.

~~~
kstrauser
And quite frankly, if you don't need anything newer than that, you'd probably
be perfectly happy with Libre Office. I moved our office to using it because
our needs are pretty simple: we need to type out letters from time to time,
mail them, then move on to the next.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I've been amazed how many obscure Office features (that have been around since
well before 2010) that people actually use, and consider a borderline crisis
if they're not working right. Where I work, anything not Microsoft Office
would become an immediate nonstarter.

But it definitely depends on your environment. For my personal use, I use
Etherpad, EtherCalc, and Wekan on Sandstorm.io, despite having access to the
full Office 365 through my community college.

------
antoineMoPa
Meanwhile in the free/open source world, LibreOffice works about anywhere and
LaTeX works on my old chrooted chromebook, allowing me to write all my
university stuff on a ~$300 computer.

~~~
swarnie_
Good for a student but try proposing this to an enterprise of 10k staff.

~~~
castle-bravo
Here's my pitch: LibreOffice can do everything MS Office can do and it'll save
you 2.3M$ up front.

~~~
romanovcode
But it can't tho. Also, you would have to train your staff. You make it sound
way easier than it actually would.

~~~
adrianN
You have to train your staff for MS products as well.

------
mtgx
What's even more interesting is that Office 2019 will only be supported for 5
years instead of 10. Do they actually expect governments and companies to buy
a new Office license every 5 years?

Even more of a reason for governments to switch to open source. We're
witnessing vendor lock-in and abuse in action here.

I've also noticed since Nadella took over, the Q&A team has been cut
(resulting in Windows 10 having way more bugs than previous Windows versions),
previous builds/editions get support for even less time (like 18 months only),
forcing users to get whatever Microsoft pushed in the latest version of
Windows, or risk being vulnerable to malware. If you don't like what Microsoft
introduced in Creators Update, and you want to stick to the Anniversary
Update, tough luck. You'll have to get Creators' Update or say goodbye to
patches.

This will likely result in Windows supporting less and less legacy software in
the future, where "legacy" will mean something like 5 years old (as it already
does for Office 2019, apparently).

~~~
rhplus
_Do they actually expect governments and companies to buy a new Office license
every 5 years?_

Nope. They expect them to pay monthly per user with an annual commitment.

[https://products.office.com/en-US/compare-all-microsoft-
offi...](https://products.office.com/en-US/compare-all-microsoft-office-
products?tab=2)

------
H1Supreme
A huge portion of people who think they need Office, don't actually need it.
There are people in my office who are convinced that Office is the only way
they can do their super basic spreadsheets, or type their letters.

Open Office has served me just fine for years now, and it would serve most
people as well. For Word and Excel, at least.

------
melling
I remember being excited about Windows 10 a few years ago because it got
people on a modern browser.

[https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/why-everyone-
should-...](https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/why-everyone-should-love-
windows-10/)

Microsoft needs to jettison more legacy so they can move faster.

~~~
cm2187
Everyone uses chrome or firefox anyway. I don't think the browser changes
anything to OS adoption.

~~~
nofilter
As a web developer, this is not true. An large number of clients I've worked
with have used IE and thanks to Win 10 shipping with Edge (which in itself is
a decent browser) I've noticed a huge decline in "but it looks odd in my
browser" comments from clients. So while I don't like Windows, or Microsoft in
general, I do like the push to get rid of legacy stuff by them.

~~~
cm2187
What I have read so far is that Edge usage on the web is marginal despite
(forced?) windows 10 adoption.

~~~
nofilter
Yes it is, but lots of companies have upgraded to 10. Of all the offices I
visit I see Edge open a lot. Chrome of course is the most popular, but I'm
happy the awful web rendering engine that is IE is soon gone.

------
jayflux
I think some people in this thread are confusing support and getting new
features. Just because windows 8 doesn’t receive office 2019 doesn’t make it
any less supported as an OS. This decision seems pretty normal to me.

I can imagine if you’re on windows 7, having the latest version of Microsoft
office is probably not one of your concerns anyway

------
cm2187
Given how little Microsoft changes Office between each version, I don't think
that's going to be a strong reason to upgrade to windows 10. I can barely
notice the difference between Office 2007 and Office 2016 save for the color
scheme.

~~~
mastax
They are slowly, sloooowly implementing live collaboration. 2013 had built-in
OneDrive support which had save conflicts 30% of the time even using it on a
single computer. 2016 apparently supports the whole live-cursor collaboration
thing, though I didn't know that until just now after looking it up. I'm sure
it would be useful if you everyone else you're collaborating with has the
latest version. It'd probably be easier to just use google drive for the one
person that inevitably doesn't.

------
makecheck
These are the kinds of decisions that can be frustrating when the software you
use depends on the _kind of company_ that made it.

Had Microsoft been split up back in the day into an applications-only company,
would that hypothetical company have made the same call? In my experience
software companies like to support several OS versions because things don’t
change _that_ much.

------
jmkni
Surely it will work on the Mac as well, right? As well as Android and iOS?

~~~
2T1Qka0rEiPr
I had the same question given the title of the article. I _think_ it should be
more accurate to say that they're dropping old Windows support, not that it'll
only work on Win10

------
dvfjsdhgfv
The main question is: why should we upgrade to Office 2019?

------
romanovcode
Don't see anything wrong with that.

------
TheKIngofBelAir
The New Microsoft™

------
slipwalker
given libreoffice 6 and gdocs, or even office365, is MS Office still relevant
?

------
Angostura
Perhaps more interesting is the question of to what extent will it only work
with Office 365

------
Retric
Microsoft abuses it's monopoly position with Office to support it's Windows
Monopoly to force some users to upgrade.

Hardly surprising, but in theory this should be illegal.

~~~
ZenoArrow
> "Microsoft abuses it's monopoly position with Office to support it's Windows
> Monopoly."

Not really. Older versions of Office are not going to stop working. For many
users, Office suites from the 90s are still sufficient for their uses.

~~~
Retric
For making documents that's true, for reading documents from other people it's
not.

Someone that's going to say edit other people's resumes will soon need to
upgrade windows OS simply to appease Microsoft and hand them even more money.

~~~
ZenoArrow
> "for reading documents from other people it's not."

I don't see the OOXML standard formats going away any time soon.

