
With New Zealand citizenship, Peter Thiel can watch the world burn in peace - Ceezy
https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/peter-thiel-new-zealand-citizen/
======
neilk
I think they were trying to make a joke, but Peter Thiel _does_ love the Lord
of the Rings. Just a few of the entities he has founded:

    
    
        - Palantir
        - Valar Ventures
        - Mithril Capital Management
        - Lembas LLC
        - Rivendell One LLC
    

Apparently in internal Palantir communications he talks about how their
software helps the good hobbits resist the evil orcs and stuff. (It does make
one wonder how closely Thiel read the books, since the all-seeing Palantir
corrupts its users).

That said, Thiel's end-of-the-world scenario is almost certainly some fantasy
about going Galt. He's not worried about the world under Trump the way many of
us are.

~~~
s_m_t
The Palantiri don't inherently corrupt their users, they were only dangerous
because Sauron had captured one of them and was feeding bad info from the
other end.

~~~
wavefunction
I don't know, take this as you will but this wikia disagrees that Sauron could
feed "bad information" via the Palantiri:

[http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Palant%C3%ADri](http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Palant%C3%ADri)

At the end of Appearance and Properties, it is suggested that Gandalf himself
claimed that false images or information could not be transmitted by the
Palantiri, only suggestions via the selection of what information to show.

------
anigbrowl
I have to say I find it both incongruous and disturbing that one of the
architect's of the new administration's transition is simultaneously buying
himself an escape pod in case things don't work out at the day job. Doesn't
exactly inspire confidence, in either him or his erstwhile employer.

~~~
joyeuse6701
It's insurance, do you live a life without insurance? Which would bother you
more, meeting a man who lived entirely without insurance or one who bought
insurance for what he could afford? Does it bother you that the government has
bomb shelters (escape pods for nuclear holocaust) while the citizenry don't?
I'd prefer someone with a modicum of common sense over an optimistic fool.

~~~
anigbrowl
On ships, it's a crime for members of the crew to abandon their posts in an
emergency if there are passengers at risk. Similarly, when you are working for
the government in some capacity I think you ought to be fully committed to it.
If you prefer to put your own interests first, then stay in the private
sector.

And yeah, I do think it's a bit of a problem that the United States doesn't
have any real civil defense infrastructure in place although realistically
geography largely insulates the United States from conventional military
attack and so there's much less practical need for such options compared to
countries in other regions.

~~~
remarkEon
>I do think it's a bit of a problem that the United States doesn't have any
real civil defense infrastructure in place

I might be misunderstanding you, but The National Guard doesn't count?

------
bflesch
This manufactured outrage is ridiculous. Diversification in terms of
citizenship is vital when you are a very high net worth individual, everybody
does it.

The only thing that Thiel does different from others is to actually take
second citizenship in a civilized country instead of just going to some tax
haven in the carribean or malta/cyprus where you can pay for citizenship.

~~~
st3v3r
Then why hasn't he renounced his US citizenship?

~~~
bflesch
Why should he? It's diversification.

~~~
st3v3r
Regular people don't get to "diversify" like that. He should be treated no
differently. You get one country for citizenship.

------
hippich
From what I read so far it looks like while you can obtain US citizenship
while holding another one already, it is strictly prohibited to get new
citizenship without renouncing US one. If this is correct, does it mean Peter
is not US citizen anymore?

Edit: just one link i found right away -
[https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-
considerati...](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-
considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-
nationality.html):

    
    
      Potentially Expatriating Acts:
      1. obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);

~~~
shalmanese
US simply doesn't recognize any other citizenships but it doesn't care what
other passports you hold.

~~~
kobeya
What do you mean "doesn't recognize other citizenships"? Dual citizenship is
legal.

~~~
Thieum22
You still have to bring your US passport to pass the customs. That is not the
case for other counties that would recognize any valid passport.

~~~
kobeya
Countries are free to define their own travel requirements for their citizens,
which they do for security reasons. What you describe is a very obtuse
definition of "does not recognize other passports."

------
joering2
It seems this is getting enough traction that the Parliament has officially
asked the Immigration Dept why Thiel got his citizenship even if he didn't
spend enough time over there. It will be interesting to watch what precedence
this situation's popularity will set - was this his money (not a bribe just
the fact he is somewhat celebrity) or other requirements that me and you can
fulfill.

~~~
dahdum
The requirements aren't firm, he didn't meet the guidelines but I'm sure he
far exceed the investor visa requirements.

Many countries court investment in these ways.

~~~
frio
The Minister in charge at the time is claiming (feigning?) complete ignorance;
apparently he "doesn't recall the application" which, given it was granted
under "special circumstances", is pretty rich. The Government are getting
questioned about this closely. Even if it comes under the investor visa, I
suspect the populace is going to want some evidence _of_ investment, because
we're full-steam into a housing unaffordability crisis, and I suspect many
will take a dim view of a foreign investor owning $10m of property (even if it
is a luxury estate and not really related).

------
ygaf
It's disturbing that HNers are lapping up the author's implication (Thiel has
NZ citizenship as an 'escape plan') without any support being needed.

~~~
st3v3r
Because it's pretty clear that's why it is? Otherwise why get it, and why not
renounce his US Citizenship after getting it?

~~~
ygaf
>Because it's pretty clear that's why it is?

It really isn't. The onus is on you to explain why it's so clearly an escape
plan, when even the article acknowledges both that NZ is a tax haven and that
Thiel gained citizenship before the election. Why should he throw US
citizenship away? Dual citizenship is cool.

------
cyberferret
You know it is the end of days when absolute privilege needs an escape
chute...

Ah well, maybe those upper deck passengers on the Titanic were right - they
paid so much for their tickets that they _deserved_ their place on the
lifeboats over everyone else...

------
tudorconstantin
He got his NZ citizenship since 2015. Maybe even before Trump announcing his
run and quite a bit before knowing that he'll serve in Trump's administration.

Insinuating that he did it as a doomsday plan because of Trump is clearly
manipulative.

------
Ceezy
Hi,

I needed to share this because I always found difficult to swallow, that a
libertarian would have Washington as his biggest customer. I wish it will help
my libertarian friends to understand that Thiel is more about himself than
freeing people.

PS:Can some admin or anyone else why is this flagged?

------
st3v3r
There was an interview on Fresh Air with the guy who wrote the story about the
ultra-wealthy survivalists, and one guy he talked to. He was a VC, but I don't
remember his name. He said, "With all the money you're spending on being
prepared to run away, how much have you spent trying to prevent the collapse
you fear? How much have you given to your local homeless shelter?"

I feel that's very relevant. Peter Thiel clearly has more than enough money to
help stop whatever he's afraid of happening in the US, and he has the
connections to other people with money that can help as well. Yet, here he is,
trying to run away instead of doing the right thing.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _Peter Thiel clearly has more than enough money to help stop whatever he 's
> afraid of happening in the US_

Peter Thiel is worth about $2.7bn [1]. That's a lot, but not enough to stop
political momentum. It _is_ enough to warrant the common practice of back-up
citizenship.

(I am curious how he procured New Zealand citizenship, though.)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel)

------
earthtolazlo
Very disappointing to see this flagged. I thought better of HN.

------
oxide
must be nice to get special government treatment when it comes to citizenship.
A short phone call away, I'd imagine, when you have that much money.

the pain in the ass it would have been for him to spend 240 days a year there
for 5 years before being granted citizenship, sheesh.

although if things go south here, he might want to trade his currency in for
NZ bucks before the hyper inflation kicks in. the government probably won't
want someone with monopoly money taking up that prime real estate, ya know?

------
aaron-lebo
This is just a thinly veiled partisan attack.

I don't agree with all of Thiel's actions or beliefs but he's getting singled
out for being different. Anyone with billions of dollars is gonna be able to
pack up and sit high and tidy in case of disaster. Someone with homes spread
across several states or countries and the money to buy their own security and
healthcare has the same opportunities and and no reason to be loyal to any
given state, anyway, but we are not forming online lynch mobs to get them.

It's a horrific thing when Iranian PhD students might be banned from the
country (yes) but fuck Thiel for being a citizen of the world. Huh?

~~~
rybosome
What of the fact that he is serving as a member of the transition team for the
current administration? Doesn't the idea that someone closely tied to the
government has an escape hatch into another country disturb you?

~~~
aaron-lebo
Not really. As I said, anyone with money has an escape hatch anyway. If the
world goes to hell there's plenty of nations that will gladly invite money.

The article suggests Thiel acquired the citizenship before Trump was elected -
is it not possible given Thiel's political views that he was ready to leave
the country given other events or another electee?

It's only an "escape hatch" because people are calling it that.

------
matthewbauer
Isn't there more important things to worry about? Trump has tons of executive
actions to cover yet the media focuses on some gossip from one of his
supporters.

------
mdotk
This happened 6 years in 2011! Why is it an issue now? Should we block
everyone that supports Trump from leaving the US??

------
rm_-rf_slash
So he helps sets up the scenario for role-reversal Atlas Shrugged and then
goes off to his own Galt's Gulch anyway?

What a hero.

------
SandersAK
A role model for us all.

~~~
newyankee
/s not needed

~~~
hourislate
and how do you know he is not being honest? Shouldn't everyone have a plan
these days?

