
Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor - discreditable
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14711/toshiba-introduces-new-tiny-nvme-ssd-form-factor
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ocdtrekkie
I can definitely see the perks of the form factor here, and totally see SSD
cooling hardware as being the next big thing, and it sounds like they're
prepared for that here.

But I mourn how fast the interface format is changing now, because I don't
have the hardware to support all of these formats. I've got a handy USB to
SATA adapter that did the job for, I don't know, a decade and a half, and now
there's eight different types of SSD sockets out there.

~~~
nextos
I think this new format is nice because it requires no tools to install, like
most other components e.g. RAM.

In contrast, current M2 NVMe have this annoying screw that requires a fairly
specialized screwdriver and tends to get stuck in some motherboards. Not a
good design. So Toshiba's new form factor looks like a step forward.

~~~
Sileni
I refuse to replace my NVMe for this reason alone. That screw is going to get
stuck somewhere and I'm going to have to take the motherboard out completely
to get it, hoping the whole time I didn't fry anything.

Why. Why make a screw that small. It's torture.

~~~
nextos
It sucks. Lots of NUCs come with a very small capacity Optane drive already
installed. Many users want to replace it with a regular SSD. The nasty
surprise is that the screw is overtightened. So when they try to unscrew it, a
common outcome is to ruin the motherboard.

~~~
segfaultbuserr
Some laptop modding anecdotes: Thinkpad X61's mini-PCIe Wi-Fi adapter has the
same problem and is well-known among hardware modding users - the screw is
tightened and glued in place. When someone tries to unscrew it, one must
carefully apply a torque with a high-quality screwdriver, otherwise the
consequence is ruining the screw. I made the mistake and killed that screw
when I first encountered that screw.

Fortunately there was a simple fix: just use a Dremel tool to cut the screw
through the circuit board of the Wi-Fi adapter. The PCB of the Wi-Fi adapter
is ruined, but you can now replace it and install a new screw without a
problem. ( _and I think the ground plane is under the screw, just copper
without other traces, so the original card may even be fully working, but if
you 've spent so much trouble to remove it for your upgrade, it's definitely
not something you'd like to continue using..._)

Since then I went to get a set of high-quality screwdrivers and never had the
same problem on other similar machines.

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djsumdog
Wonder if we'll see these on the Raspberry Pi 5 and other embedded boards?

This is pretty amazing; much better than the current eMMC and SDCard based
storage solutions on a lot of dev boards.

~~~
gambiting
RockPi has a full size M.2 connector that accepts most NVMe drives:

[http://rockpi.org/](http://rockpi.org/)

~~~
tristor
I bought a Rock Pi 4 and the whole kit-n-kaboodle. Just finished doing some
benchmarking and it has pretty impressive performance, but it definitely needs
assistance staying cool. The case I have is aluminum with the bottom of the
case being a whole-board heatsink, and I still had to set it on top of ice
packs with a fan blowing to keep it from throttling under heavy benchmarking
load.

I think one thing people don't think about with SBCs is that we are making
pretty significant thermal performance trade-offs. I wish somebody made a case
with a clean flow through and at least 1 120mm fan in it.

~~~
mceachen
Or... you could make your own Extra Fancy case:
[https://twitter.com/mrm/status/1157820493098934272](https://twitter.com/mrm/status/1157820493098934272)

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SlowRobotAhead
We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket.

All things considered, that’s not a bad looking socket system. With thermal
limitation the issue, it seems BGA+heat sink will still outperform but at the
cost of not being upgradable. Still, seems like a fair idea to have a PCIe4
MicroSD.

~~~
kaoD
> We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket.

What are you referring to?

~~~
hawski
A cassette of course :)

[https://youtu.be/BnHW-f5ayhs?t=108](https://youtu.be/BnHW-f5ayhs?t=108)

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tracker1
Definitely nice for SFF... but I don't think that higher performing devices
will be able to dissipate enough heat from the lid alone. Most PCIe gen 4 SSDs
have relatively large heat spreaders because of the load.

Similarly, I keep thinking it would be cool to have a GPU socket format that
could sit adjacent to the CPU so that a large heat pipe / cooler could be
attached to both.

~~~
mrguyorama
>I keep thinking it would be cool to have a GPU socket format that could sit
adjacent to the CPU so that a large heat pipe / cooler could be attached to
both.

That's pretty much exactly how modern high end laptops with dedicated graphics
processors work

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pathartl
Something that I think people are glancing over, this has some huge potential
in the laptop / pro tablet space. I don't think someone like Apple would ever
move to something like this, but standard NVMe mounting solutions are probably
taller than they need to be. This is also a screwless solution which while not
a huge deal, is pretty neat.

In my eyes, this sort of connector gives manufacturers no reason to solder on
storage. There's the cooling issue, but looking at something like the MacBook
I could see it integrated into the CPU block or even the bottom case. Hell, if
they did the bottom case it might even give some support to the logic board
and they won't have as many issues with the board flexing. No rubber pads
needed!

~~~
bufferoverflow
Who cares about laptops and tablets? They already have fast ports. You already
can put a real NVMe drive into a USB enclosure and get ridiculously fast
external storage.

This new form factor would be perfect for cameras that shoot RAW video or
high-bandwidth video. Until recently you'd need to buy very expensive and fast
SD cards or proprietary RED mags to be able to record high quality high
resolution video. BMPCC4K was the first (very affordable) camera that allowed
recording directly into a USB SSD.

~~~
diabeetusman
Of course, the RED mags that you're referring to just use normal SATA with the
pins moved around.

~~~
lostsock
For context:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJXu4K1igg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJXu4K1igg)

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gambiting
How is this an "innovative connector design"? This is exactly how sim card
slots worked on many old Nokias, the mechanism is literally identical.

~~~
trilila
Innovation doesn't equal inventing new stuff. I think it is quite innovative
how they use an old mechanism for a new use case.

~~~
close04
It's not a new use case, it's still used to connect a card to a board. Just
like the hinged connector used for microSD before this [0]. It's more USB 3.0
type A connector vs. the USB 2.0 type A.

Neither the connector itself nor the application are innovative. Which is why
nobody is pointing out the particular innovation in the connector.

[0] [https://www.yamaichi.de/products/connector-solutions/card-
co...](https://www.yamaichi.de/products/connector-solutions/card-
connectors/micro-sd-card-connector/micro-sd-card-connector-hinge-type.html)

~~~
danaris
Using it for a smaller NVMe SSD, however, is. Quite clearly.

You can call just about anything "not innovative" if you're sufficiently
reductionist about it. The idea that the only "true" innovation is some
totally unknown, totally revolutionary idea that came completely out of
nowhere fully formed is a toxic one that robs people and companies of just
praise for coming up with interesting and useful new things, while others get
lauded for making a whizbang concept prototype that's never going to be
commercially viable.

This is something no one has done before, even if many of the parts have been
done in different ways. That's innovation.

~~~
buran77
I had this type of connector for memory cards in some old devices. This was a
while before the push-push connectors came into fashion.

The requirements back then were much lower than what this connector delivers.
No real need to dissipate heat or handle PCIe signals.

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djhworld
Last week I purchased an NVMe drive for a small home server I'm building. Take
into consideration the last time I bought components was about 6 years ago so
it absolutely blew my mind seeing how small the NVMe drive was, like the size
of a chocolate bar and barely more than 1mm tall. I took photos of it in the
palm of my hand!

Seeing they're looking into shrinking these things even further is even more
incredible to me!

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altmind
How it is comparable to microSD express(with pci-e 3.1 and nvme) announced
February this year? [https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/286390-sd-association-
ann...](https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/286390-sd-association-announces-
microsd-express-with-pcie-nvme-support)

~~~
nimish
SD Express is almost certainly going to be adopted by more people than
Toshiba, for one. Though it could die like UHS-III.

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amluto
I would love a Raspberry Pi-like device with one of these sockets.

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ilaksh
Seems like a good thing for mini-PCs and laptops.

I am really into mini-PCs. Like the Mini-STX DeskMini GTX/RX is my favorite
thing at the moment even though I don't really need it. It uses MXM (laptop)
graphics cards such as even a 1080.

I am wondering, with an external power brick like the DeskMini GTX/RX uses,
could you make the systems even smaller than Mini-STX? Maybe there could be a
way to separate out the components package from a cooling solution that would
be attached.

I like the combination of portability, easily plug-able components, and power.

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devonkim
Maybe I’m too much of a sysadmin but this looks like they’re trying to make a
successor to the SATA DOM form factor that also works for embedded use cases.

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thinkmassive
Cool! I read the announcement and visited the product page[1], but I didn't
see any indication of when this will start to be available. Anyone have any
clues?

1: [https://business.toshiba-memory.com/en-
jp/product/memory/xfm...](https://business.toshiba-memory.com/en-
jp/product/memory/xfmexpress.html)

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raintrees
No mention of starting capacities...

~~~
wtallis
They're only announcing the form factor today, not a final product. But we
should see at least 512GB, and probably 1TB. Their current 1TB BGA SSD is a
bit thicker than XFMEXPRESS.

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sdlion
I worry about the spring force of those pins after so many extreme temperature
changes. Or AMD spring connectors design are similar to these?

EDIT: I meant "Intel spring pin connectors"

~~~
rhinoceraptor
It seems like it's basically like CPU socket spring pins, which I would assume
have much higher thermal loading.

~~~
sdlion
by just pictures Intel spring pins are shorter and broader on the base side
and with a steep rising angle. These look (quite) longer and with a lower
rising angle. I guess these pins are more feeble and imprint less force than
CPU spring pins.

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cosmotic
The angle of insertion seems like a total deal breaker for any sort of
embedded device.

~~~
umvi
I mean, you could create a different housing for an embedded device like a
cell phone that receives the same card.

I remember when SIM cards used to go in at an angle and flip down like in the
diagram, but now all the housings are just slide-in with spring loaded
contacts.

~~~
jandrese
Back when cell phones had removable batteries you'd just put a connector like
this under the battery. These days it seems like a fairly major oversight.
Maybe someone will figure out a slide in socket that will be compatible?
Depends on how the pins are arranged on the memory card. It might be tricky to
pull off depending on the pinout of the card.

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dev_dull
Love the form factor and I hope to see something like this in raspberry pi
devices.

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rolltiide
when all else fails, add another row of connectors!

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GrryDucape
Not sure if this will end up in consumer devices but it would be a hell of a
lot better than SSD chips soldered onto laptop motherboards. The latest
ultraportables all seem to have soldered SSDs because once Apple did it and
the world kept spinning, that made it okay for Dell and everyone else to
follow suit. Of course the SSDs themselves would have to become easily
available for people to upgrade their laptops or it will just be the next MXM
standard, upgradeable in theory but no one actually does it.

