
Foursquare Gets $45M and a New CEO to Build Out Enterprise Business - coloneltcb
http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/14/foursquare-gets-45m-and-a-new-ceo-to-build-out-enterprise-business/
======
arihant
With all this criticism against checking in, if Foursquare was still the app
it used to be with Check-in built in, I'd still be using it.

The best part about Foursquare for me was a personal diary of things I did,
the ability to share and gamify that diary, and only as a headfake, get
location info. Swarm, not so much. They should have just made two apps -- one,
the present day Foursquare, and another for Foursquare check-ins. They didn't
have to create another brand. See how FB split itself into multiple apps.

Also, they killed the diary, the mayorships, the accomplishments. It's very
hard to trust them with even an icon space on my phone anymore. Foursquare
wanted a bigger toy, it threw what it had under the bus, and it wound up with
neither.

~~~
JoBrad
In my opinion, the gamification was getting kind of old, especially as a lot
of people had third-party apps that would check them into any location they
even passed by. This probably made it very difficult to monetize location
data, but it also made Foursquare less reliable for me when I want to know if
my friends have actually been to a place.

I quite like the new Foursquare app, and never use other services like Yelp or
Urban Spoon anymore. I see new places pop up on Foursquare before they're on
Google Maps all of the time.

On the other hand, Swarm is a dull replacement of the gaming side of things. I
find the design too "bubbly" almost childish. I do like that it is very easy
for me to rate a place I've been, but I'm not very clear on how those ratings
work with the ratings in the Foursquare app (which are much more in-depth).

~~~
reustle
Yeah, I noticed recently that I was automatically checked in to a bunch of
places I haven't actually been, and I can't seem to find any setting to turn
it off except for "disable background location data" which seems like it might
be what triggers it. We will see if it actually stops, though.

~~~
kevination
You sure it's not the suggested check-ins feature?
[http://thenextweb.com/apps/2015/09/22/swarm-now-lets-you-
che...](http://thenextweb.com/apps/2015/09/22/swarm-now-lets-you-check-in-
belatedly-based-on-your-gps-history/#gref)

------
asd
Foursquare has to dangle a carrot for people to actually install and then use
their apps. What's in it for them? Two+ years ago, I would see Foursquare
check-ins on my social media feeds daily. Lately, not so much. As the novelty
of checking into places continues to wind down, their data will get more and
more stale.

Why should a user click "Allow" when the app asks to "access your location
even when you are not using the app?"

~~~
potatolicious
Disclaimer: I don't work for Foursquare, but am fond of some people who do.

Checking in is definitely pretty dead - but the personal value of Foursquare
for me is that they track where I go without any input from me. You can view
your "location history" in the app, and for me it's ~90% accurate, and this
data can be used to improve recommendations.

Anecdotally Foursquare's food/drink recommendations for me are far superior to
Yelp and way less painful. I can trust the rating (Yelp's star ratings are a
special kind of messed up hell) and the user-submitted tips is pretty great
for quickly getting info on what to order and what to avoid.

I can search Foursquare with a keyword and go to the top 3 results and have a
95%+ odds of really enjoying myself. I can't say the same for Yelp.

~~~
adevine
> Checking in is definitely pretty dead - but the personal value of Foursquare
> for me is that they track where I go without any input from me. You can view
> your "location history" in the app, and for me it's ~90% accurate, and this
> data can be used to improve recommendations.

Not sure about iOS, but every Android device can do this by default:
[https://www.google.com/maps/timeline](https://www.google.com/maps/timeline).

~~~
potatolicious
Foursquare's version of this is _much_ more powerful, and IMO one of the
actually valuable things they've created.

I live/work/play in Manhattan where the density of businesses is extremely
high, but even here Foursquare is able to tell the difference between the bar
on the ground floor vs. a restaurant in the basement of the same building. The
level of specificity they've been able to achieve is pretty spectacular.

So it's not just a history of GPS coordinates or semi-educated guesses about
which places you've been, it's a 90%+ accuracy list of _actual_ establishments
you've visited. That's pretty great.

Looking at the Google page 6 of the last 10 places it guesses I've been are
off the mark - most are just places I've walked past in the last day or two,
and Foursquare almost never erroneously picks those up.

~~~
roymurdock
What do you do with that data? If it's just used for tailoring
recommendations, wouldn't it make more sense/be less invasive for the app to
ask you for your top 5 restaurants, coffee shops, etc. You may go places you
don't enjoy and never go back, but those would still end up factored into your
recommendations with Foursquare.

~~~
potatolicious
The invasiveness is definitely a concern - but in my experience things that
quiz you on preferences are rarely actually accurate. Honestly I'm not
normally so liberal with sharing my location data, knowing actual people who
work there probably tilted this in their favor.

I'm not an expert in recommendation systems or anything, but just anecdotally
it seems like the amount of real observed data needed to make _actually_
accurate recommendations is pretty high, beyond the abilities of a short intro
quiz.

Though having experience building apps one concern is self-reporting vs.
observation. Foursquare knows _every_ place I go, not just the ones that
deserve a pic on Facebook or a checkin. The problem with asking users for
their top restaurants is that the responses you get will be more aspirational
than real, and reflect who the user _wants_ to be rather than their actual
preferences.

> _" but those would still end up factored into your recommendations with
> Foursquare"_

On the history page you can mark places as "not liked", presumably this
lessens or removes the impact of it. Definitely still some user interaction
required - but it's IMO still a lot better than manually checking in, or using
a completely unintelligent system.

------
aaronbrethorst

        We’ve heard that this latest round of
        financing cut the company’s valuation
        roughly in half. Foursquare declined
        to speak to valuation, but its previous
        round in 2013 put it at a reported
        $650M valuation.
    

In other words, if you joined Foursquare in the last two years, your stock
options are now worthless.

~~~
barretts
Not at all true. Employee option prices are not based on market (e.g. VC)
valuation. They're based on 409A valuations which are usually much, much
lower.

~~~
startupfounder
This is correct.

Most employees have a stock strike price that is say $2.00 when the company is
valued at $20.00.

So if each Foursquare stock was worth $20 and is now worth $10, the strike
price of $2 still allows employees to make $8 per share now.

If you are granted 100,000 shares and wait it out and build the company back
up to $20 you will make $18 per share times 100,000 shares for a nice little
$1.8M bonus for putting in the hard work.

Maybe because you stuck it out you not only increased the price to $50 per
share, but you were also granted 100,00 more stock because you didn't care
what TechCrunch said. $9.6M isn't bad for 4 years of hard work...

~~~
JonFish85
"So if each Foursquare stock was worth $20 and is now worth $10, the strike
price of $2 still allows employees to make $8 per share now."

"Now" is wildly inaccurate; these are still illiquid assets, so even if this
person were to exercise their options, they can't sell yet, most likely (I'd
be shocked if they could turn much of a profit selling in the private
markets).

And I have no idea what the terms of the new investment are, but I imagine
they include some sort of protections for these new investors (I'd put money
on them getting their money back plus full participation in a liquidity
event). They probably get preferred shares. They probably get last-in/first-
out privileges.

If you joined in the last two years, you're probably underwater based on
strike price. Even if you're not, if the company has a liquidity event, once
these latest investors get their money back, you're probably underwater by
then (this new $45m coming off the top, minus any debt, you might split
whatever's left -- MAYBE).

If you're an employee, you're probably not going to get anywhere close to
$9.6m even if the stock rebounds. That's reserved for the new CEO who turns
the company around, maybe some of his top brass.

~~~
shostack
Do employees have any opportunity to sell their ISOs on the secondary markets
if they don't want to wait? No clue how any of that works so forgive me if
that is a dumb question.

~~~
JonFish85
Tricky question that I'm not 100% sure on the answer of... My understanding is
that it depends on the company, the stock agreement and of course finding a
buyer. A company like foursquare is probably tough because there is such a
risk of the stock being worthless. There are a lot of ways that I mentioned
such that most common stock will become worthless, so all of that is factored
in.

------
hans
I would've spit my coffee up as an investor back when they told me they're
ditching check-ins. That was such a terribly bad move, caused so many users to
forget them, really Crowley should've moved all the way out.

It was one of those "we're going to be like steve" and do some jerk product
design move, but it wasn't like steve in that it failed.

Rule #1 for the net: if you ever get so incredibly lucky as to define a verb
(like google it, or tweet that), like they had with check-ins but we just
didn't get to fully grok it and then they whacked it ... grow that like gold.

They should've built out check-ins as this powerful "where am i now" related
kind of thing .. it could've been a real mobile local gem beyond anything
today. Think the star trek moment where you scan where you are and it tells
you all sorts of interesting things, useful utility links, cool data.

But instead they called it "swarm" and made it all about your bro's ... maybe
that says something about Sf? oh wait they're in NY.

~~~
ahallock
Maybe they'll bring them back in some new-and-improved form and generate
renewed interest in the app--maybe it's a strategy.

------
quintin
Keith Rabois in 2013 to Dennis Crowley.

    
    
       Maybe Hail Mary Bebo-style acquisition will bail you out.
    

[https://twitter.com/rabois/status/312974304155422721](https://twitter.com/rabois/status/312974304155422721)

[http://www.businessinsider.com/keith-rabois-bashes-square-
on...](http://www.businessinsider.com/keith-rabois-bashes-square-on-
twitter-2013-3)

~~~
zazpowered
Damn

------
tomasien
Almost everyone on this thread is referring to removing the check-in
functionality as the death of Foursquare as a consumer product. Y'all -
Foursquare did that because it was not just dying but basically dead. The
change allowed them to be more flexible in the new phase of the company. It
might not have worked the way they dreamed (I don't know) but Foursquare was
crashing fast at the time of the split.

------
pcora
The main issue I see with this new enterprise business is that it depends on
people using the Foursquare / Swarm app. And few people seem to be using it
lately. In the past, I had tons of friends using it. But checking my friend
list, no one is using for quite sometime.

\-- edit I had to download the app to check as I did not had it installed
anymore.

~~~
rexf
I don't know the numbers, but I have anecdotal experience.

Most people seem to be not using 4sq. It varies a lot by location, and NYC
seems like it would have the highest user penetration.

Out of the registered users, a subset of 4sq users (including myself) check-in
very consistently (multiple times a day). For myself, it's useful in a quasi-
lifelogging role.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> Out of the registered users, a subset of 4sq users (including myself) check-
> in very consistently (multiple times a day). For myself, it's useful in a
> quasi-lifelogging role. reply

Google Timeline does this automatically now, without the need to checkin:

[https://www.google.com/maps/timeline](https://www.google.com/maps/timeline)

> To determine popular times, Google uses data from users who have chosen to
> store their location information on Google servers. Popular times are based
> on average popularity over the last several weeks. Not all businesses will
> have a popular times graph; the graph will only appear for businesses whose
> hours are listed on Google and about which Google has sufficient popularity
> data.

~~~
rexf
While Google timeline might be in the same ballpark for geologging, it is
definitely not the same use case as having a newsfeed of check-ins by yourself
& friends. Google timeline seems closer to 4sq's Pilgrim, both which are not
anywhere near the same level of granularity as manual, explicit check-ins.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> While Google timeline might be in the same ballpark for geologging, it is
> definitely not the same use case as having a newsfeed of check-ins by
> yourself & friends. Google timeline seems closer to 4sq's Pilgrim, both
> which are not anywhere near the same level of granularity as manual,
> explicit check-ins.

I agree manual checkins are more granular, but it seems like the fad has worn
itself out, and Foursquare is going to die a slow death with Google providing
the data for free.

EDIT: As Steve Jobs wisely commented, "Its a feature, not a product."

------
falnatsheh
I wonder what if Foursquare did the opposite of what they did with Swarm.
Keeping Check-in in Foursquare and creating a new app to find places (like
yelp), people will leave the notion of check-ins behind in the Foursquare app
and the new app will be a clean slate for a discovery app.

------
jbigelow76
Foursquare has an enterprise business?

"Congrats, you're the Mayor of Conference Room 3C!"

------
HorizonXP
I have a friend that's worked at Foursquare for a long time. Hopefully this
new pivot works out for them.

I'm not sure I understand what they've pivoted to though. It seems as if
they're providing location data to customers like Apple?

~~~
barretts
They're selling location trend data to anyone who will buy it. Retail
operators (like Apple) may buy it, but the more typical customers for these
types of services are hedge funds and other traders who want an edge. They'll
correlate check-in volume with iPhone sales, for instance, to more accurately
estimate Apple's quarterly revenues before they're announced.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> They're selling location trend data to anyone who will buy it.

Is this the same trend data Google is showing in location search engine
results?

[https://support.google.com/business/answer/6263531?hl=en](https://support.google.com/business/answer/6263531?hl=en)

> Popular times

> Google Search shows users the most popular times for some of their favorite
> businesses and institutions. When users search for places like a restaurant,
> bar, or gym on Google, they’ll see when their destination typically draws
> the largest crowds.

> To determine popular times, Google uses data from users who have chosen to
> store their location information on Google servers. Popular times are based
> on average popularity over the last several weeks. Not all businesses will
> have a popular times graph; the graph will only appear for businesses whose
> hours are listed on Google and about which Google has sufficient popularity
> data.

~~~
barretts
> Is this the same trend data Google is showing in location search engine
> results?

Very similar idea, but different source (4SQ app versus Android/Google apps).
Also I'd imagine the 4SQ enterprise offering has a lot more ways to slice and
dice the data so that it's useful for business.

------
iradik
How is 4sq worth millions but yelp is worth billions? I find them both to be
very similar services. Should there really be that much of a difference in
valuation between the two? Seems like one is either over-valued or under-
valued.

~~~
txttran
4sq has struggled mightily with traction/retention since the big change. Yelp
is ubiquitous in the US and they are making strides into other countries.

------
jarjoura
All the great lasting products come with a strong sense of community, no
matter the mechanic. Foursquare had that with its friend list and checkin
scores.

Once they removed that from the core app, it became this faceless product that
left me in the uncanny valley of trust. Where is this score coming from I
would ask myself everytime I launched the app?

Maybe it was the failing of branding not to follow back up with OkCupid style
of "hey did you know??" blog posts.

Swarm was a cute project, reminded me a little of Gowalla but without that
digital diary/passport that Gowalla had. So it felt like it was missing the
other half of my life story. It's not JUST the weekly checkin score, but my
entire journey I want easy access to.

------
mrschwabe
Just a casual Foursquare user here - I actually like(d) the app and found
check-ins kind of fun; an interesting location is kind of like a hot selfie on
Instragram for padding one's ego.

But from what I gather, check-in feature was removed? I must be using a rather
outdated version of the app cause I had checked in to a few places recently.

This new focus on 'enterprise' ie- selling my data is a bit troubling.

Sooo... yeah, not intending to update the app - and will looking forward to an
alternative or perhaps a more private geo app that isn't focused on
'enterprise'.

~~~
dcre
Checkins are still there, they're just split into a separate app called
Swarm[1] that integrates tightly with the core app.

[1] [https://www.swarmapp.com/](https://www.swarmapp.com/)

------
siquick
Used Foursquare almost daily until they forced me to install that awful Swarm
app - have barely used it since.

One of the worst product decisions I've known a `mainstream` tech company
make.

------
meeper16
Foursquare is dead. Social-based sites were a bad investment in general.

The Advent of the Algorithm is here aka real technology companies on the
horizon.

------
sabman83
I hope they do succeed. I find their recommendations more useful than Yelp.

