

Work vs Life - live_to_code

I recently met this really attractive girl, which causes the following problem.<p>The people I admire most in life (in random order): Tesla, Lance Armstrong, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Jim Clark, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, ... all seem to be people who:<p>(<i>) would rather die than fail
(</i>) had tremendously successful careers
(*) had numerous divorces (if they ever got married)<p>Given that that is the way I plan to live my life (I would rather achieve my dreams and meet random strangers than live with existing friends/family but let my dreams wither), how should I handle this current situation? (Both the girl &#38; I are in our mid twenties).<p>On one hand, it seems almost wrong entering a relationship knowing that I will value my work more. On the other hand, there is always hope that all will turn out well.<p>Can HN'ers speak from experience? Those that pursued their dreams first + pursued family life later on / those that pursued family life first and somehow tried to balance it with pursuing their dreams?<p>Thanks!
======
pj
You know, I understand your situation. I was in startup mode and a girl came
along and I told her straight up, "My startup is more important to me than a
girl. I don't want a girlfriend, I want a startup and I want a business and my
#1 priority is making my business work. You are my mistress."

I was totally honest with her. She knew from the beginning what I wanted and I
let her decide what she wanted. She decided to stay and "tolerate" my startup
mentality. I'm an entrepreneur. I have been since I was too young to work
legally and I probably always will be.

She has stuck by my side for over three years now and I am going to marry her
-- I hope. You can never predict the future, but through all this, I have
fallen in love with her more than my startup and I want to be with her more
than my startup and I will be.

I'm no expert in life, advice is all recycled life experiences and my life is
different than your life. But really, think about it... a startup is just a
peacock feather that will help you be happy with the woman you love and spread
your genes and procreate. That's what life is about.

If you find the woman of your dreams, then a startup doesn't matter as much
anymore. Your happiness is the goal. What makes you happy? Finding someone you
can talk to and love and cherish and be with forever, or a startup you can
flip?

Maybe it's the former, maybe it's the latter... you don't even know yet or you
wouldn't be asking the question. Give it time, figure it out. Be honest with
your partner. Don't expect to be steve jobs or lance armstrong... do you want
testicular cancer? Probably not.

Just live life and try to be happy and treat people with respect and honesty
and let them decide what they want. If she wants to be with you while you
focus on entrepreneural persuits, then that is what she has decided and then
she is the one you want to keep around.

If she says, "No, I want you to focus on me and not your company." Then maybe
you should let her go if that's what you prefer.

------
vaksel
Seems to me like you are putting the cart before the horse. Don't waste your
time living solely for the future. You aren't Lance Armostrong or Steve Jobs
yet, and you may never become them.

Life is what happens while you're busy planning other things. Don't waste an
opportunity.

~~~
live_to_code
IMHO, what differs from those people and the rest of us is their willingness
to suffer it out until they succeed.

~~~
zimbabwe
They were also people who were fascinated in the stuff they became famous for.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can work hard at something you
don't like and become a legend. Find what you love, what you don't mind
working hard at. Do that. If you want your work to be separate from your life,
expect cognitive dissonance.

My advice, from life experience: Try everything. Do what feels natural. Give
the relationship a try; if it falls apart, then continue with your work. Not
everybody succeeds young. Not every girlfriend turns into a wife.

~~~
mdog
Yep, and they were also very, very lucky in addition to being dedicated and
talented. The world is full of smart, talented, determined people who never
achieve fame.

Live your life, be honest with yourself and others, work hard, everything else
will take care of itself.

~~~
zimbabwe
I think that most of the people who truly want fame achieve it. Most people
don't. They value other things over just being well-known. Being famous is not
particularly difficult to achieve if you crave it.

Then again, many people who _don't_ want fame become famous anyway. Fame is
hard to avoid.

------
silvio
Your argument is a good example of survival bias. How many people pursue their
passion and let everything else in life behind, just to find themselves alone
and unsuccessful at the end of their lives. Enjoy the opportunity, see where
it goes, and stop looking for excuses to avoid intimacy with other people.

~~~
brown9-2
I think his post is a perfect example, actually.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias>

~~~
silvio
Another source for a good explanation, even if long and sometimes self
righteous, is "Fooled By Randomness" by Nicholas Nassim Taleb. He's the author
of another well known book called "The Black Swan"

------
BigCanOfTuna
Seriously dude, all your fame and wealth will mean nothing as you take your
last breath. Neither will your friends and family, but there is a better
chance they will be around to comfort you as you transition into the void (or
where ever you believe are going).

I derive a tremendous amount of courage and strength from my wife, I wouldn't
have been able to achieve what I have with out her.

------
wheels
This is cargo-cultism at its worst. The way to become the next Tesla isn't to
copy his faults. The people on your list didn't get there by having unstable
relationships and it's more than a little presumptuous to make start planning
your life around being famously successful.

~~~
saikat
Though I agree with you and think it's unnecessary to forego opportunities
like this for the sake of your startup, I just wanted to mention that that in
a Q&A session with Steve Jobs that I attended, one kid asked him what advice
he had for young entrepreneurs. He said a few things, but I remember vividly
that he said (paraphrased), "Make your startup your sole passion and goal in
your life - you won't have time for a side job or a girlfriend or anything
else - you can't love anything more." It seems like he thought having nothing
else take up any of his attention was, in fact, part of the reason for his
success. I wonder how true it actually is.

------
pguerin
Take both paths! You can have a great relationship AND build your dreams at
once! Did Bill Gates divorced with his wife? No. Did it prevent him from
pursuing his dreams wth microsoft and his foundation to help poverty?

~~~
jacoblyles
Plus, chicks dig dudes who have things going on in their lives.

~~~
grandalf
Beavis is right.

~~~
jacoblyles
I didn't think I was that old - but I don't get it.

~~~
grandalf
you might also be too young, these days.

------
eterno
Think what you will regret.

1\. Building a startup and not falling in love. 2\. Falling in love and
screwing up a startup.

Though both don't have to be exclusive, I bet 2. is a better choice. Also you
have your whole life for startups, wheras falling in love would be constrained
to a short number of years.

I think go with the girl and figure the startup thing along.

------
grandalf
The problem with many relationships is that people have this idea that there
should be compromise.

You mention that your potential mate is "really attractive". If that's her
main asset, then you may end up with someone who expects you to compromise
your own goals, etc.

It really depends on how you look at love. Some people look at it as though
the most loving thing you can do is sacrifice yourself and your own dreams,
while others view the highest/best thing you can do to be simply following
your own dreams.

In my opinion, both people should follow their own dreams independently, and
discuss them occasionally over dinner, etc.

------
kfb
I think your biggest mistake is thinking you have a choice: I can choose to be
consumed by my business endeavors, or I can choose to fall in love with this
girl. Neither is the case - you have little control over what consumes you.
Presuming you allow yourself sufficient exposure to each, it will likely sort
itself out without you needing (getting) to make a conscious choice.

I didn't put either first or second. I worked my tail off on my professional
career and didn't end up meeting the right girl until fairly late on, but when
I did I knew it and I didn't hesitate to marry her and keep my work in
perspective. But had I met her ten years earlier I would have married her then
too, and don't think I would have achieved anything less professionally.

------
CyberFonic
I and a million others admire many of the people that you do. You might be
lucky and reach the same level or not. Like the lottery you might not win, at
least not yet.

When I was presented with the same opportunity, I dated the girl, proposed to
her 5 months later. We have been married for over three years and I haven't
regretted it.

In fact, she had many very successful people in her circle of friends who have
since given me great advice and support that I would have missed out on if I
had gone for what appeared (at the time) the fast track.

As Vaksel points out "Life is what happens while you are busy with other
things". Just go with whatever is the strongest pull at each decision point.
Good Luck !

------
mightybyte
The choice shouldn't be an exclusive or. There are women out there who
understand and appreciate that mentality. If the current girl is the type that
does make it an exclusive or and you really think this particular girl is the
one, then you'll have to make a tradeoff. But if staying with her would be a
tradeoff, then in my opinion she's not the right girl. The right girl should
like and love YOU--the YOU that you described above. In the general case,
girls like that do exist, but in the special case of you, sometimes they're
hard to find.

------
feniix
You THINK you value your work more until you have to make the choice. I say
just live your life, and don't worry about stuff that didn't happen yet. If
you plan too much you lose all the fun.

------
uptown
You said she's really attractive ... not that she's going to be the person you
spend the rest of your life with. Why don't you slow down ... boot-strap your
relationship with her with whatever time you've got available ... and see
where it (and your startup) both take you. With any luck ... one or the other
will take you somewhere. My guess is, once you're there, you'll know which one
deserves more of your attention.

------
santacruz
Take the girl - she could be your destiny - internet will wait

------
wushupork
on the other hand you might meet someone incredibly supportive of your choice
in life. My wife is extremely supportive of my startup endeavors.

You never know what you are going to get. I think I agree you are putting the
cart before the horse and over analyzing the situation.

Just go with the flow. Things may or may not work out but if you over think
things, you may never find out.

------
dennisgorelik
What bad things could possibly happen if you start this relationship?

------
TriinT
You have your entire life to pursue your interests and projects. That's not a
lot of time, because one single lifetime is not enough for someone who is
passionate about various topics and wants to find out more and more about
them.

On the other hand, meeting a girl you find attractive and worth spending time
with is not something that happens often. As you're still in your mid-20s, you
may think that you'll have plenty of chances to meet other good girls. But
soon you'll wake up and you'll be 35... and you'll have a different
perspective on life.

It doesn't have to be either work OR the girl. You can have both worlds.
You'll just decide what the optimal allocation of time is. Of course, if the
girl thinks you're allocating too much time to your work, you relationship
might not last. If you have the opportunity to be with someone you like, go
for it. A stable and healthy personal life is great for one's productivity,
and you still have 50 years or so to become a mini-Tesla ;-)

PS: be careful when idolizing athletes. They are done by the time they're 30.
Tesla had done great work by the time he was 30, but some of his best work was
done later in his life.

