
Ask HN: Any advice from developers who started their careers later in life? - J-dawg
I finally got my first web developer role this year, at the age of 33.
I now spend my days feeling overwhelmed and struggling to keep up with my team, feeling like I annoy everyone else (who are all about 10 years younger than me) with my constant questions. I&#x27;m starting to think the team would be more productive without me, given the slow pace of my work and the amount of help I need.<p>I find myself filled with regret that I didn&#x27;t start this career earlier, and beginning to wonder whether I&#x27;ll ever be any good at it. I think this anxiety is becoming a problem in itself - I feel exhausted, struggle to concentrate and find myself procrastinating even when I have lots of work to do. I&#x27;d seriously consider quitting if I had anywhere else to go.<p>Have any HN-ers experienced this and got through it? I could really do with hearing some positive stories from anyone who came to the career later in life or from an unconventional background.
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nostrademons
I started early (first program at 10, first tech job at 15, first full-time
programming job at 19), but I've had to reinvent myself about 3 times, with
the desktop->web transition in 2005, startup->Google transition in 2009, and
now getting into mobile & such in 2015. Each time, I was like "Aw shit, all
the stuff I spent my life learning is useless. I wish I'd gotten into this 5
years ago."

A few things to think about:

1.) Don't define yourself by the specific concrete skills that you know.
Instead, define yourself by your ability to learn, to pick up new skills, and
to solve problems. There will always be new problems, but as long as you
always have an ability to learn, you'll be able to overcome them.

2.) Your past career isn't wasted, you just don't know how it'll be useful
yet. Steve Jobs mentioned this in his commencement speech at Stanford [1]:
"You can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking
backward. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your
future. "

3.) At least you're better off than all the folks who _haven 't_ yet realized
that software is eating the world, and will be coming to web/mobile/whatever
development in the future. It's hard now, but in a year when you're a very
competent web developer and explaining how things work to the newbies, you'll
be glad you put in the effort now.

~~~
nostrademons
Oh, forgot the footnote:

[1]
[http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html](http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html)

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matthewrhoden1
You may have been in the work force for longer than your peers, but you're
still green in this new career track. You'll just have to accept that you're
going to get a little under foot from time to time. This is why you get to
make so much more later :)

Early in my career I also felt overwhelmed, you get this feeling that there's
so much to learn and almost no time. What if you spend a month training on
Angular only to find it's out of date?? My advice, don't worry about that.
Even if that happened, the knowledge is still useful because either (A. the
release docs of the next version will be enough to get you up to speed) or (B.
you've just been exposed to one approach of doing things and you will see this
re-surface at a latter point.)

Take one piece of technology or programming technique you're using or need to
know in your current job, get some books, training videos, etc. and learn it
well, then move on.

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therealwill
I'm a young dev (26) that works with a lot of older developers (40-50) rather
new to the field. My biggest annoyance with the older inexperienced devs is
that they DON'T ask questions resulting in very bad design decisions. Keep
asking questions but maybe frame them differently. i.e. instead of "How do I
do this?" say "I'm planning on implementing it this way, do you think this
will work or is there a better way?" This shows that you did some research and
value their opinion.

------
vijayr
Lots of good advice here. I myself don't have any advice, but I'd like to pass
one that I got from a ridiculously smart engineer few years ago. He told me to
"learn something of everything and everything of something" \- what he meant
was, have a broad knowledge of many many topics (breadth) plus deep knowledge
of a few topics (depth)

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thumbtackthief
Ugh... I'm 36 and--according to Timehop on Facebook--just hit my 3 year
anniversary of "Hmm, I wonder what it would be like to learn to code"? I have
a good web developer job, but I hear everything you're saying. I feel the same
way, and for people who say "age is just a number," yeah, sure, but it really
can be grating to have to constantly be asking kids 10-15 years younger than
me for help. I could have written your post--I'm literally procrastinating
right now by writing this (despite having a million things to do and
accomplishing NOTHING today) and I had to convince myself not to just walk out
of my job in frustration an hour ago.

So yeah, no advice to give you other than to tell you that I understand,
you're not alone, and let's hang in there together.

~~~
J-dawg
I really appreciate you saying that! Deep down I know I'm not the only one,
but it's nice to have it confirmed. Yep, let's hang in there together.

------
bbcbasic
Not so much advice, but do realise you are in double jeopardy.

Firstly you are new to being a developer, and all of the miscellaneous
information you need to know to do that job well which you will learn much of
in your first year.

Secondly you are new to that company and that team, and knowledge of how THEY
do things and who to ask.

The second problem applies for experience developers like myself who have been
doing it over 10 years. When an experienced dev changes jobs it is hard.
Especially as most companies treat experienced devs like contractors and
expect them to hit the ground running.

If you persevere I believe it will become a lot easier after the first 12
months in both aspects. Just keep grinding and it will be very rewarding.

------
Arjuna
First off, a massive congratulations to you on your first web developer role!
OUTSTANDING! There are dreamers, and there are doers... and clearly, you are a
DOER. BRING IT... I'm getting motivated just thinking about how hard you've
already worked in the lab to GET TO WHERE YOU ARE NOW!

I'll try to hit most of your key points:

1\. _" [...] at the age of 33."_

I would encourage you to forget about age. It's just a number. In reality, the
clock is ticking for all of us, so I think it's more important to focus on
_right now._ Work to live in the moment. Some started early, some started
late. I'm older than you, and I just published my first game for iOS in
January, in Swift, which was an entirely new language when I started with
Xcode 6 Beta 1. So, again, it's just a number. You are bringing the thunder
RIGHT NOW, and that's what matters. I can't stress this enough. Sure, wouldn't
it be grand if you had started on a Commodore 64 when you were 12? Well,
that's not the case, so you do what it takes, you do the work [1], you build
that wall of knowledge brick by brick, and you make it happen for yourself.

2\. _" I now spend my days feeling overwhelmed and struggling [...]"_

To be honest, you're not alone. When you are learning something new, this is
the nature of the learning curve. You just have to keep building that wall,
one brick at a time. Do the work. It's the only way to move forward, the only
way to hone your craft. You have to keep driving through.

3\. _" I annoy everyone else (who are all about 10 years younger than me) with
my constant questions."_

There is nothing wrong with asking questions. However, you have to know how to
ask the right questions and work within the schedules of your colleagues. That
is to say, the right questions are, for example, questions about the project,
the architecture of the system, etc. For these, work to carve out time with
the colleague(s) that can answer these questions, so that you aren't hitting
them up in a way that breaks everyone's flow. The "wrong" questions, if you
will, could be, "How do I do X in language Y?" Those types of questions are
best answered by you doing your due-diligence and off-hours study.

4\. _" I find myself filled with regret that I didn't start this career
earlier [...]"_

See point 1 above. We've all played this game. We all have regrets. I wish I
would have had kids earlier than I did, for example. But, guess what? I can't
change the past... I can only drive forward and GAIN GROUND. So, you'll never
win the "Regret Game." You can't win against yourself. Dr. Seuss said it best
in, "Oh, The Places You'll Go!" (Please read it if you haven't; it's
absolutely wonderful.) Here's the quote: "I'm afraid that sometimes you'll
play lonely games too. Games you can't win 'cause you'll play against you."
You are striving to evolve and striving to do the best that you can, and any
decision that you make will ipso facto be made with the most up to date and
diligent decision-making faculties that you can muster at the time. Therefore,
you were right for what you believed to be right, in the moment that you made
the decision, and that is all that will ever matter; strive to let go of the
anchor of regret.

5\. _" I'd seriously consider quitting if I had anywhere else to go."_

I would encourage you to keep grinding, keep learning. You have to embrace the
grind. I know it's rough. I've been there; I think we've all been there at
some point, to be perfectly honest. But, in some sense, if you do leave, you
may find yourself at exactly the same place, in the sense that... yes, you may
be in a new job, with new people, new surroundings and perhaps new geography,
but you will still be the same technically, that is, struggling to get your
grounding and learning the craft. So, it may _feel_ like changing will help,
but I would encourage you to carefully evaluate that decision before taking
any action.

I wish you all the best.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7076143](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7076143)

~~~
J-dawg
This is awesome, thank you. It's weird how good it feels having a complete
stranger pay me a compliment. Thanks for all the advice.

~~~
Arjuna
The honor is mine. Thank you for posting and allowing me to be a small part of
a much greater conversation.

Keep hanging in there. Remember how hard you have worked, but also know that
there is more work to be done; it's the same for all of us, no matter where we
are on the path.

I love this quote from Carlos Castaneda. It reminds me that it's a life-long
process:

 _" To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one. It is rather
an endless struggle that will go on to the very last moment of our lives.
Nobody is born a warrior, in exactly the same way that nobody is born an
average man. We make ourselves into one or the other."_

~~~
J-dawg
That's a great quote, and so are all the other ones on your profile!

------
giis
> I annoy everyone else (who are all about 10 years younger than me) with my
> constant questions.

Are these technical questions or domain related questions ? If it's technical
questions, I would highly recommend you to get books or videos equip yourself
against these new challenges. I'd also recommend you to pick-up(ex:jquery) one
area and go in-depth.

Its not hard to learn anything, If you put enough effort.

Honestly, I'll be annoyed with constant questions too, I expect others to do
some basic google search or wiki and spend at-least 20 minutes before coming
up with questions.

p.s : I'm more or less at your state, but i have different problem. Managers
are telling me to 'go and ask questions to everybody' but I'm like 'I don't
want to question without having basic understanding of what it is!' I'll spend
my time understanding the problem first before I can seek them solutions.

~~~
J-dawg
I possibly wasn't completely fair to myself when I said I constantly ask
questions. I don't just blurt stuff out, I always use Stack Overflow etc
first. I think the problem might be that where I work there is no technical
management, we're just allocated work by a project manager so there's no
discussion of what approach to take, and nobody reviews the code I write. My
fellow team members, afaik, have never been told it's their job to answer my
questions or mentor me. So it's understandable they might be annoyed. None of
them have ever complained, I just feel like I'm probably pretty annoying.

I'd really like to work somewhere a with a little more focus on training and
mentoring, with code reviews and someone officially assigned to mentor me. But
I'm probably being naive to think places like that exist (or they do exist,
but wouldn't consider employing me!)

~~~
giis
Yes, there are lot of work places where code reviews are must. I think, you
should suggest your team/manager to start using code review boards like
[https://www.reviewboard.org](https://www.reviewboard.org) that should solve
most of your problem.

------
jqm
"I feel exhausted, struggle to concentrate and find myself procrastinating.."

That sounds like the problem. Not that you are 33 or your co-workers are
younger. You should find out what is up with the concentration and
procrastination, take steps to address that, and forget about age. At 33 I
don't think that is the issue.

------
rrherr
Check out this talk about giving & getting technical help:
[http://blog.sashalaundy.com/talks/asking-
helping/](http://blog.sashalaundy.com/talks/asking-helping/)

------
Bahamut
I started when 28 (30 now).

Sounds like you might hate where you are currently working.

I approach software engineering with the mentality that I am always behind,
and need to keep learning. Granted, I believe I've generally chosen my jobs
well. My first one had me mentored heavily - later ones, I've took on more
responsibility.

Remember this - as a junior developer, a lot of your role is to learn &
develop. The company is investing in you in part (or it should be). Just focus
on improving your craft, and be humble.

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Im_Talking
You need a talk with your immediate manager.

