
Introducing Surface Hub 2 - remir
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business/surface-hub-2?ranMID=24542&ranEAID=nOD/rLJHOac&ranSiteID=nOD_rLJHOac-1V1lpEzo5_X6JfKOdhtdnw&tduid=(7a84a49de6e2bd145c26ef7d5726ab90)(256380)(2459594)(nOD_rLJHOac-1V1lpEzo5_X6JfKOdhtdnw)()
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menacingly
The thing Microsoft seems to get is that you can keep grinding on these
devices even if they aren't smash hits. Eventually people like me start to
consider them a viable alternative because we know they aren't going to give
up on them like Google.

~~~
Suspect
Zune. Surface RT. Kinect. Windows Phone. Band. Just naming some things that
I've personally purchased and Microsoft no longer supports. They are no better
than Google at continuing to support their products.

~~~
rgbrenner
Zune: introduced 2006; discontinued: 2012; support ended 2015 (9 years)

Surface RT: introduced: 2012; Discontinued: 2013; Windows support ends 2023
(11 years)

Kinect: introduced 2010; discontinued: 2015 for windows; 2017 for xbox; still
supported (no date announced AFAICT)

Windows phone: introduced: 2010; last release 2015; windows phone os support
ended 2017 (7 years)

Band: introduced 2014; discontinued 2016; still supported (no date announced
AFAICT)

They gave up on band and RT pretty quickly... but they still supported those
users.. a 2012 laptop will probably be dead by the time Windows RT support
ends.

Just for comparison.. google is only 20 years old. Android is only 10 years
old. Which products of Google's are you thinking of that failed and were
supported for a decade? When Google Reader died, users got 3 1/2 months
warning. Which Microsoft product got 3 1/2 months warning before ending
support?

I understand why google has their support policy, and I'm not passing
judgement here... but microsoft definitely supports their products longer, and
that has a real cost to microsoft, and they deserve some credit for that.

~~~
ZuLuuuuuu
That support means just security updates. I have bought a Lumia 820 and then
Lumia 950 and the "real" updates stopped happening after only 1.5 to 2 years.
Lumia 820 did not get Windows 10 update (although officially promised by
Microsoft).

Is Lumia 950 still supported? On the paper, yes. But there are no new
features, only security updates. When we bought Microsoft ecosystem hardware,
software-wise they had a long way to go until they caught up with Android and
iOS, but we saw the potential, they were releasing new features to catch up
with the rest of the competition. When updates stopped after just 1.5 years,
we ended up with half baked products.

I am not even mentioning the investment I did as a developer to develop
Windows Mobile apps.

Sorry but I am not giving any credits to Microsoft. They tried to make money
on short term, and when they couldn't, they abandoned users.

I can give credits to the Microsoft engineers though, they created a great
operating system and a great SDK which works on all screen sizes, with
different hardware and with any input type. And you can develop an application
using both native technologies or the first class citizen web technologies.

~~~
freeone3000
So your problem is that the product, as you purchased, works just as well as
the day you bought it, and continues to get security updates? You seem to be
upset about things that it was not and will never be, and not anything that it
was that it no longer is.

~~~
ZuLuuuuuu
My reply was simply an answer to the claim that Microsoft's approach deserves
credits when compared to Google's support to their products. And I explained
why the situation with Microsoft products are similar, not better, compared to
Google's support approach.

And from law point of view, Microsoft of course did not break any laws by not
updating the phones. But when announcing Windows 10 Mobile phones, emphasising
that the phones now have the same operating system as desktop counterparts and
hence they will get the same updates, and not delivering this feature, is
worth to be upset about.

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yoodenvranx
I _love_ that Microsoft seems to prefer 3:2 displays over 16:9/16:9 displays!

If we get really lucky we might even see 4:3 displays again some day in the
future.

~~~
partiallypro
4:3 displays are too boxy for mobility, I really think 3:2 should be the new
standard, especially for tablets, it's just perfect.

~~~
wilsonnb
I prefer 4:3 for tablets, but I'm glad we can all agree that 16:9 was a
mistake. Even 16:10 would have been better as a standard.

~~~
tshannon
I haven no strong feelings personally one way or the other, so could you
enlighten me as to why 16:9 is a mistake, or why 4:3 is preferred?

~~~
wilsonnb
16:9 doesn't offer enough vertical space compared to the horizontal space
required. Basically, it's bad for small screens (like my 12 inch laptop)
because you get almost no vertical space. Apple agrees with this and uses
16:10 on their laptops, which is slightly better. At least I think they do.

16:9 flipped the other way, like a smartphone, offers a lot of vertical space
and almost no horizontal space. You basically can't have two apps next to each
other because there isn't enough horizontal space.

Basically, I want to have two things open next to each other on my screen. I
can do this on 16:9 screens with a high enough resolution, but 3:2 or 4:3 with
the same width offers me more height. Which I want. Less scrolling.

I'm sure there are people that prefer 16:9 though. At the end of the day it's
personal preference.

I hope this rambling makes sense.

~~~
WorldMaker
> I'm sure there are people that prefer 16:9 though.

16:9 is the most common resolution of DVD/Blu-Ray and other movie formats.
It's great for movies, and the people that hate letter-boxing black bars and
mostly don't understand aspect ratios are always going to prefer 16:9.

(Though ironically movies have plenty of non-16:9 widescreen content these
days, so the complaints of letter-boxing by the people that hate letter-boxing
and don't understand aspect ratios have started back up.)

It's not a great reason to prefer to 16:9, but "doesn't have black bars when I
watch Netflix videos" is a surprisingly common request.

~~~
wilsonnb
It's not an unreasonable position to take.

One of my favorite things about my iPads 4:3 screen is watching 4:3 content on
it without black bars, so I get it.

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analogmemory
I love that Microsoft manages to insert a "Clippy" like modal on top of the
marketing page while I'm watching the video. I mean at least fix the squished
text in that graphic ya'll.
[https://i.imgur.com/V5iKhi3.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/V5iKhi3.jpg)

~~~
alexggordon
I know. I couldn't figure out how to close it too.

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ChuckMcM
I would love a Surface Hub, I tried to buy one and couldn't because they were
only available to 'qualified' customers (something an individual apparently
never could be).

Now with 4K (or 8K!) displays it becomes completely credible to replace a
white board with one. And the benefits of the shared whiteboard and presence
is really solid when working with someone who isn't local.

The software infrastructure investment is immense however. And while I would
love to see an open source version of this I doubt such a thing would ever
exist. You need a video conferencing component, a drawing/archiving/sharing
component, hardware that can accelerate the drawing function to avoid lag, and
significant bandwidth to host both video and images being swapped updated in
real time.

~~~
Someone1234
> I tried to buy one and couldn't because they were only available to
> 'qualified' customers

You can order one from CDW right now[0]. They did initially only open them up
to Microsoft Partners with a certain level, but that was many years ago now.

I will say that a Surface Hub is much more useful when used as part of
AD/O365. Since Skype for Business is a major selling point and not really
useful to the individual. Using it as a glorified e-whiteboard isn't its
strongest feature, it is a fantastic meeting/collaboration tool.

[0] [https://www.cdw.com/product/Microsoft-Surface-Hub-touch-
surf...](https://www.cdw.com/product/Microsoft-Surface-Hub-touch-surface-
Core-i5-8-GB-128-GB-LCD-55in/3979032)

~~~
ChuckMcM
Of the two I'd like the 84" one, its got the 4K screen, the 1920 x 1080 screen
of the smaller one doesn't allow for a good drawing experience. CDW also
claims to sell that one for about 30% over list from the Microsoft site.

And while I get the relabeled Teams stuff as Skype for Business I would assume
it is also compatible with Skype for humans :-).

In my home lab I would use it for collaboration with remote folks,
brainstorming, video watching, program planning and parts location storing. In
my fantasy world I select a component or assembly I need and it shows the
layout of the lab with an arrow indicating where that piece is stored, the
last time it was known to be there, and perhaps re-order information.

[0] [https://www.cdw.com/product/Microsoft-Surface-Hub-touch-
surf...](https://www.cdw.com/product/Microsoft-Surface-Hub-touch-surface-
Core-i7-8-GB-128-GB-LCD-84/3979037?pfm=srh)

~~~
mynameisvlad
> And while I get the relabeled Teams stuff as Skype for Business I would
> assume it is also compatible with Skype for humans :-).

I don't believe it is. Skype and S4B, apart from the common name, have
literally nothing in common with each other. Skype for Business is just a
rebranded Lync, which is a rebranded Office Communicator.

The new board uses Teams conferencing which IIRC is also incompatible with
Skype for Business (it's meant to replace it).

~~~
basch
Teams and S4B can sort of communicate but its more broken than it works. If a
user is signed out of teams, but signed into S4B, the message might go to
teams instead. Sometimes teams continually fragments S4B messages into new
convos.

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cwyers
Am I the only one who sees this and wishes Microsoft was still doing something
in the phone space?

~~~
EnderMB
I think the dream for a lot of people is a Surface Phone, built on Android.

From a privacy standpoint it'd probably be absolute hell, but the build
quality of every Surface product I've used has been phenomenal, so if they
could translate this to a flagship phone with features they'd run away with a
good portion of the market.

The flagship market seems pretty desperate at the moment, with choosing a top-
tier phone being a game of choosing what feature you could live without
instead of having the features you want.

~~~
jazoom
My SP4 is still working okay but my wife's SP3 had the keyboard stop working
for no apparent reason. It's actually the device itself since my keyboard
won't work on hers either.

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coreyw
The company I work for has maybe 20+ of the 1st generation version in our
office. We even have a few of the 84 inch models. I have to say they are great
to work with when you are collaborating with people and need to use a white
board, video conference, or just view a web application. I can't stand using
one of the few conference rooms here that does not have one anymore.

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meritt
The music composition on this video sounds eerily similar to Final Fantasy 7's
main theme. These sections specifically:

* Surface Hub 2: [https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=1m34s](https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=1m34s)

* FF7 Main Theme: [https://youtu.be/nPSdaQW97rA?t=58s](https://youtu.be/nPSdaQW97rA?t=58s)

~~~
byproxy
It's a fairly generic motif.

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yodon
Anyone have a guess what it costs to tile 4 of those 4K multi-touch displays
like shown in the video?

That would make a heck of a desktop.

~~~
ct0
As the old saying goes, if you have to ask, you cant afford it. :( you and me
both

~~~
wsinks
I don't have to ask, and I can't afford it.

Taking google results for the surface hub 1: $9,172.99 · Insight $6,499.99 ·
www.widgetree.comFree shipping, no tax $8,999.00 · Mobile AdvanceFree shipping
$10,815.43 · Aztek ComputersFree shipping

Average = 8871 Give them 35% premium for the new one (simple numbers guess
based on the fact that the new one will cost somewhat more) = 11976 Multiple
by 4

$47904 for a 4x display of Surface Hub 2s.

Doesn't mean I can afford it. :)

~~~
Zelizz
[https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-
hu...](https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-hub-2/)

"The new Surface Hub 2 is sleeker, more agile and more affordable to fit any
workspace or work style."

No info on exactly _how much_ more affordable.

Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft (but not on this).

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EricLemieux
Wouldn't having the camera at the top of such a large screen (in portrait as
demo-ed in the video) exacerbate the lack of eye content in a video call? If
it's noticeable on a laptop sized screen I can't imagine how off-putting it
would be on this.

~~~
aylmao
Idea: make the camera tiny (smartphone-like) and put it on suction cup. To
pick up a call you don't tap a button; you grab it and put it on the screen on
the other person's forehead (like a Bindi). To hang up, you pick it up and put
it on a holder on the side of the screen. Boom.

Privacy? Check. Camera faces you only when your'e using it. Positioning?
Check. Camera is closer to other person's eyes. Intuitiveness? Check. Like
picking up a phone.

Wireless charging, alarm if it gets far away, etc etc.

~~~
wsinks
I love this idea! I'm sending it to some Cisco engineers I know.

~~~
aylmao
Sweet! Wish I was in the hardware space myself hahah (:

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ktpsns
I love such devices. However, similiar to smartphones they depend so much on
the software, and Microsoft is not too known for interoperability. How can my
Linux and Mac OS X colleagues participate and contribute in the meetings? Such
tools need open platforms and communities which build them.

I'm especially concerned because Microsoft stopped the support for a native
Linux Skype client.

~~~
Matthias247
I can't say anything about this new system.

But I think in general Microsoft isn't that bad for cross-platform nowadays.
On MacOS I have Office, Skype, Onedrive, etc. And I can access my documents on
phones via mobile clients. The tools are all weaker than the Windows versions,
but I think they mostly get the job done and are getting better over time.

Can't comment on pure Linux support, but would understand if it's lacking due
to the smaller user-base.

~~~
zaksoup
Microsoft definitely has been moving towards a more cross platform software
suite. My biggest issue is that Skype is by far the worst video calling
platform. Zoom and BlueJeans long since surpassed hangouts, and even hangouts
is better than Skype. I saw another hn commenter mention that all of their
skype calls begin with 10 minutes of handshaking - "can you hear me? let me
restart my computer. hold on my mic isn't being recognized" \- and I think 10
minutes is generously low.

~~~
mynameisvlad
Is that Skype or Skype for Business (which is just a rebranded Lync, which is
just a rebranded Office Communicator)?

In any case, as the site mentions, the new Hub is exclusively for Teams, which
has its own conferencing system.

~~~
zaksoup
Good question, and I have no idea. The conferencing system in meeting rooms
was managed by a facilities team. Probably it was Skype for Business, given
that?

Now we're all using Zoom and it's much smoother. /anecdote

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reacharavindh
Very creative, and cool, but a part of me cringes thinking of people touching
those displays with their greasy fingers...

~~~
gagege
What makes me cringe is the thought of trying to answer the video call which
Skype proceeds to drop and you spend 15+ minutes trying to reconnect with the
caller which leads to you just using the old fashion conference telephone
sitting on the table.

~~~
wlesieutre
Is business Skype that bad? I gather it was a separate product (Lync) that
they later decided to slap a Skype logo on.

~~~
gagege
Lync was nice and actually worked pretty well. Last time I used Skype for
business though, it was like they took out all the parts of Lync that worked
well and replaced them with the worst parts of (non-business) Skype.

~~~
Semaphor
Lync was always unreliable with many issues. Then they slapped on a few skype
interface horrors to make it a truly bad product.

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emehrkay
This is beautiful and the video really sells it (if walls aren’t like this in
the near future then what is all of this for?). But is this “just” a large
screen Windows computer running in kiosk (or whatever) mode? Could I get a
classic windows desktop by hitting windows-d?

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strictnein
More information on this blogpost here:
[https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-
hu...](https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/05/15/meet-surface-hub-2/)

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sebringj
The thing I liked the most was the person view in how it shows things in real
life dimensions, seems much more "personable" to communicate across distances
for teams, at least from a non-vr way.

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aandrieiev
Centuries will pass, technology will change, but one will still need someone
else to open the next slide:
[https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=83](https://youtu.be/7DbslbKsQSk?t=83)

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sumitgt
The portrait mode really looks interesting.

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bluthru
I'm having Apple iSight flashbacks. MS should just embed 4 cameras into the
frame.

