
It’s Time to Hold American Elites Accountable for Their Abuses - RickJWagner
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/middle-class-americans-are-sick-elite-privilege/589849/
======
refurb
For a guy that did little to make Chicago a better place during his 2 terms as
mayor, he may want to spend more time on self-reflection rather than pointing
his finger at others.

[https://theintercept.com/2019/05/20/chicago-mayor-rahm-
emanu...](https://theintercept.com/2019/05/20/chicago-mayor-rahm-emanuel-
failures/)

~~~
notfromhere
Eh, given the absolute shitshow he was handed, he didn't do an awful job. No
mayor could fix all of Chicago's long-term structural problems in two terms.

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seren
As European, which only discovered aboug legacy preferences [0] recently, I am
still not sure how to reconcile it with my belief that meritocracy was a
cornerstone American value, and how this case is fundamentally different.

[0]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences)

~~~
smt88
Meritocracy is a spoken value, but it's never been a reality. I'm sure that's
true in every country.

In fact, upward mobility is much better in places like France and the UK[1].

Most people like me, who pay attention to history and current social issues,
see the American dream and the myth of meritocracy as a way to keep the poor
from seeing that the system is rigged against them and becoming restless.

1\. [https://www.economist.com/graphic-
detail/2018/02/14/american...](https://www.economist.com/graphic-
detail/2018/02/14/americans-overestimate-social-mobility-in-their-country)

~~~
turk73
Despite the citation, I remain skeptical. How is it possible that countries
with such high tax rates would have that level of upward mobility? Just when
you're getting going, the rug is getting pulled out from under you. Not that
it isn't the case in the states, too, mind you. Just to a slightly lesser
degree.

Meritocracy? GTFO! Companies do nothing but virtue signal these days.

~~~
AlexandrB
> How is it possible that countries with such high tax rates would have that
> level of upward mobility?

They have such high upward mobility _because_ of high tax rates since high tax
rates allow funding more public institutions (health care, education, housing,
child care) that make upward mobility possible. By the time you're wealthy
enough to "have the rug pulled our from under you" you're already in the top
10% - top 1%. Getting the rug pulled at that point just means you make a
little less money.

~~~
mat4magic
>Getting the rug pulled at that point just means you make a little less money.

It also means you have a much harder time saving for a house, funding a
company etc. The top 10% are also the most important part of a society from an
economic perspective.

So basically its easier to get into the top 10% in Europe while its easier to
get into the very top in America.

The are much more selfmade Billionaires in America , i suspect its the same
for Millionaires

[https://www.citylab.com/life/2016/05/world-billionaire-
wealt...](https://www.citylab.com/life/2016/05/world-billionaire-wealth-
global-one-percent/482802/)

~~~
mercer
There are many more people who would like to enter the 'Tonnaires' than there
are who consider Millionaire or Billionaire status a worthwhile goal. And as
far as I can tell anything beyond a few ton doesn't significantly increase
happiness.

From my perspective there's no reason to value the ability to become a 'self-
made' billionaire if it leaves more of the 'precariat', and I prefer a society
that reduces the number of people that are part of it.

~~~
mat4magic
I agree with you that this would be a more pleasant society for the majority,
which would be a good thing.

Unfortunately i think that the more "unfair" society would be more dominant
and will outcompete it over time, thereby making it worse.

So i think in the end some unfairness will isnecessary, but maybe less then we
have today

------
aerodog
Rahm Emanuel oversaw with Obama the largest upward transfer of wealth in human
history. And now he's chiding elites.

~~~
ChrisLomont
If by upward transfer, you mean elites gained the larger percentage, then also
include that immediately previous to Obama the same elites saw the largest
percentage losses under the Bush financial collapse. The gains as the economy
improved restored some of those losses.

Also under Obama the middle class gained significant wealth, through reduction
in unemployment, restoring of stock values (i.e., pensions and 401ks), and
wage increases (the largest year over year median wage increase on record was
under the Obama admin).

~~~
chris_mc
>under Obama the middle class gained significant wealth

[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/middle-class-
charts_n_6507506](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/middle-class-
charts_n_6507506)

Check out these charts and tell me you're not full of shit.

Edit: it took me 30 seconds of googling to find this, next time research your
position before you make a fool of yourself.

~~~
ChrisLomont
Your article is dated 2015. You're ignoring a decent amount of historical
growth. Here's a pretty decent chart to let you know how good your news
sources are

[https://www.adfontesmedia.com/the-chart-version-3-0-what-
exa...](https://www.adfontesmedia.com/the-chart-version-3-0-what-exactly-are-
we-reading/#iLightbox\[gallery138\]/0)

Here's historical wage growth reports from BLS.
[https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/earnings-and-
wages.htm](https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/earnings-and-wages.htm)

Here's 75 consecutive months of growth under Obama, a record:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/decembe...](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/december-
jobs-report/512366/)

Here's wage growth charts [https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wage-
growth](https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wage-growth)

Here's median householdincome from FRED
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N)

Here's income data from Census, which you can download in Excel and analyze
yourself. Again same conclusions. [https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-
series/demo/income-p...](https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-
series/demo/income-poverty/historical-income-households.html)

As you can see, all of these paint a much rosier picture than HuffPo. And
places like BLS and FRED and Census are vastly more trustworthy for data,
since you remove opinion piece writers trying to get eyeballs.

>Edit: it took me 30 seconds of googling to find this, next time research your
position before you make a fool of yourself.

Indeed.

~~~
chris_mc
You just sprayed links all over, expecting me to fish through that data? From
what I can tell, your data shows mediocre growth that has _barely_ kept pace
with inflation. Half the links you show are for "median" values, which will
always increase in an economy that is growing (as it did under the Obama
years). It's fact that the middle class as stagnated as the ultra-wealth have
gained immensely over the past decades, no amount of FUD will make your
argument factual. I'm not arguing any further with someone who argues in bad
faith.

~~~
ChrisLomont
>Half the links you show are for "median" values, which will always increase
in an economy that is growing (as it did under the Obama years). It's fact
that the middle class as stagnated as the ultra-wealth have gained immensely
over the past decades,

You're confusing median with mean. Median is the middlemost income, which
represents the middle class well. Mean is the average including tops and
bottoms.

>I'm not arguing any further with someone who argues in bad faith.

You presented worse sourced, out of date data, misuse or don't understand
basic terms, and don't look at evidence from well respected sources when
presented. How am I the one not arguing in good faith?

------
dasKrokodil
>But $1 trillion and 5,000 lives and 16 years later, the public had been told
that those WMDs had not existed after all.

5,000? More like 500,000...

------
strikelaserclaw
America has an unbalanced system which rewards a small group exponentially
(regardless of what that is), this is a feature built into the core of the
system and the american psyche. Changing this requires a fundamental
revolution to the system. Most of american life follows the Pareto principle
on crack. E.g small number of people capture absurd amounts of value
generated, small number of colleges create most of the elites... presidents,
businessmen, scientists etc...

------
ChrisLomont
>a bailout of bankers issuing entirely toxic debt, and a massive public effort
to prop up auto executives who were building cars that weren’t selling.

The bailouts were loans to banks, with stable banks forced to take them to
avoid signalling, and the loans were paid off with interest to the benefit of
the taxpayer. The toxic debt was debt the middle class treating their houses
like casinos, taking on debt, then defaulting. If we hold the elites
accountable, do we also hold those lying on loan forms (mostly middle class)
accountable?

The auto bailouts were designed to save middle class jobs, and these were a
financial loss to taxpayers when these were defaulted. So here taxpayers did
pay to keep middle class jobs.

Note that taxpayers did not pay for either bailout, but the did pay or benefit
on the gains or losses. The money was from the Fed, with the taxpayer on the
hook for the deltas, not the initial amount.

Actual accounting on the bailouts [1]

Maybe the middle class should hold themselves accountable.

[1]
[https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/](https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/)

~~~
mises
Taxpayers still pay for fed expenditures, albeit indirectly. Expansionary
fiscal policy -> inflation, and inflation is probably the biggest single tax
on any one.

~~~
notfromhere
Inflation is a macro benefit to taxpayers.

~~~
mises
Not necessarily. That has been the traditional economic opinion, but it has
been challaneged as of late. Employers don't always raise wages, harder to
save for retirement (unless you want to take higher risk in the stock market,
your money shrinks in real value).

~~~
ChrisLomont
You don't need much risk in the stock market. Index funds have outpaced
inflation since forever.

It's easier to save for retirement since most people spend a lot of their life
with fixed payment debt (mortgage, car, school, etc), and all of these become
cheaper to service due to inflation.

Thus the majority of the middle class has access to and uses debt, and has
access to assets that outplace inflation.

The counter to inflation is deflation, which has, due to deflationary spirals,
been devastating to economies. There is not an inflationary spiral. This is
why all central banks target small inflation.

------
shireboy
Ignoring his terrible record and taking his argument at face value, I think
he's right on some counts, but misses three important points:

* "The Elite" includes not just bankers and B-list actresses. It also includes most of Hollywood and many athletes, many media pundits, the Clintons, himself, and other politicians who make millions in "speaking engagements", book deals, etc., get cush healthcare and retirement, advocate and legislate wasteful policy, then lecture us on how evil we are for wanting to keep our hard-earned money to invest, share and spend as we see fit.

* Disagreeing with someone is not automatically racist or sexist. Sure, those evils exist today and should be confronted, but having nuanced, principled opposition to "Elite" talking points should not get you banned from social media or doxed. We throw around ___ist words and hyperbole way too much in an effort to bypass rational debate.

* A person having money or status is not a problem in itself. When those people start looking down their noses at me (a middle class libertarian), insinuating I am ___ist because I don't like a healthcare program they made, and creating a culture where people are maligned for their beliefs, it does begin to raise concerns.

I think much of the nationalism we see is a reaction to those points. He's
correct in the broader problem, but shortsighted in his application.

------
mindcrash
American Elites should be held accountable?

Oh yes, you got that right. But I'd like to change it around a bit.

 _ALL_ elites in the world are responsible for the shit happening right now.
And yes, WE WILL hold each and every one of you accountable for the futures
you are currently destroying.

No matter what your political beliefs are, or how "good" you pretend to be.
All of you.

Like winter, justice will be coming. I don't know when and I don't know how --
but it will be coming. COUNT ON IT.

------
RickJWagner
Kind of surprising, an attack on Hollywood from The Atlantic. (They tend to be
sympathetic to left-side politics.)

I guess it's mostly just the picture that depicts Hollywood. The text is as
expected.

~~~
simonh
This is an article by a Democrat, in a left leaning publication, about things
Democrats have got wrong politically recently and what they need to do to
correct on to the right track. Seen that way, Illustrating it with a fallen
Hollywood icon seems particularly thematically appropriate.

