
Professionals need our 4:3 screens - H4CK3RM4N
http://www.cs.put.poznan.pl/csobaniec/43.html
======
anfilt
Same! I hate the freaking wide screen madness. It's not just laptops though.
There are not a ton of manufactures making LCDs with modern resolutions in a
4:3 aspect ratio. Also a lot them are quite expensive.

Eizo makes 1:1 desktop monitor, I managed to get one used for a good price I
love it! I would get a second if they did not cost so much.

[http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/index.ht...](http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/index.html)

Also 5:4 is basically stuck as 1280x1024. You think for the desktop monitor
market there would be more variety of aspect ratios made with higher
resolutions.

~~~
noir_lord
2560x2048 would be awesome (they exist but they cost about 5-10 times what a
2560x1440 does..
[http://www.ieiworld.co.uk/products/MMD_5201M-1323-459.html](http://www.ieiworld.co.uk/products/MMD_5201M-1323-459.html)).

Two of those side by side would be perfect.

I have dual 2560x1440's at work (24") and that's nice but the extra 608 height
would be great for things like Chrome devtools etc.

~~~
narimiran
> *2560x2048 would be awesome (...) Two of those side by side would be
> perfect.

You have just turned two 5:4 monitors into a 10:4 monitor - and the closest
format to that exists in a form of current 21:9 monitors, with acceptable
prices.

------
jeffhuys
So, he doesn't like 16:9 or 16:10 because he doesn't use the extra space? I
think I couldn't live without a wide-screen.. screen. Most of the time, I have
2 or 3 files side-by-side. I also think that the author actually has a
different problem: a bad trackpad. He stated he needs to scroll a lot to view
content, and a nice trackpad goes a long way with this.

It all comes down to opinion; I'd rather have a wide screen than a high
screen, because I feel really agile with my huge trackpad.

> Please consider the needs of such user as I and many of my colleagues.
> Academics and various assorted IT professionals are not an insignificant
> group of users. And even if only a part of them are having the same
> frustrations as me when buying notebooks, this is still a large group, I’m
> sure. Please consider providing such people as us with a little choice in
> the matter of screen ratios. There is our money in this for you. Lots of
> money!

I don't think there's "lots of money" there. I also think the companies that
make these laptops do the necessary market research and come to the conclusion
that wide-screen sells better.

~~~
tjoff
Extra space? There is no extra space, if anything the aspect ratio of wide-
screens makes the screen smaller if keeping with the weird diagonal
measurements.

16:9 is in my opinion quite terrible for computer work, 16:10 is ok but hardly
great.

------
bartread
Disagree.

I have a Microsoft Surface Pro (or Surface Book Pro - I can never remember
which because I find the naming scheme ridiculous and irritating but,
basically, the most powerful variant)[1], which has a screen that's much
closer to 4:3 than 16:9.

I tend to like to have files open side by side. Not just code, but often
documents, web pages, and sometimes spreadsheets. This does not work nearly as
well on a 4:3 screen as it does on a 16:9 screen. A particular bugbear is
Visual Studio, where I like the solution explorer open next to my side by side
files: I can make it work on the Surface, but it's not great, and I find
myself having to reduce the font size.

16:9 works much better for me, particularly when I'm on the move and am forced
to only use a single screen.

[1] Off topic but I do not recommend you buy one of these due to unreliable
WiFi connectivity, unreliable trackpad, a tendency to drain the battery very
quickly (12 hours or so) when sleeping, and disappointing overall battery
life. These would be irritating issues in a £600-1000 laptop, so they're
absolutely unacceptable in a £2400 laptop.

~~~
sundvor
For when not on the move:

21:9 curved 34" at 3440x1440 is perfect for Visual Studio. I have bought two
of those for myself now; home and work (U3415W, X34). 21:9 is as if made for
VS.

There's even a bigger 38" 3840x1600 (the U3818DW) that I'd love to see.

You're talking serious real estate you caon use with no silly scaling, ie 1:1
or 100%.

~~~
bartread
That sounds like a fantastic setup. I'll have to look into it because it would
work great with my MBP.

Sadly, thanks to another bugbear of mine with the Surface Book, I'd need to
carry the dock around with me rather than leaving it at the office if I wanted
to do that at home.

This is because the Surface Book itself only has one mini display port
connector - you need the dock if you want to connect two monitors.

Let me say it again: I do _not_ recommend anyone buy a Surface Book (although
ironically the author of the article would probably quite like its screen's
aspect ratio).

~~~
sundvor
Ahh... no Thunderbolt / USB Type C would be a major let down in 2017/2018, for
sure. My U3415W doesn't have Type C connectors, but the newer models do -
including that luscious 38".

I actually surround my home 34" Predator X34 with two U2412Ms (1920x1200) on
an Ergotech stand. The sides are similar enough in DPI for it not to be
jarring, and they are floating in air over my desk making for a very nice work
area. Used to be 3x of the 24s until I upgraded the middle. The GPU has 3x DPs
which makes it easy - but with a newer setup you could possibly daisy chain
type Cs?

------
Paul_S
4:3 and matte and a proper keyboard. These no longer exist because Apple and
shiny.

~~~
dewey
If there would be a demand then it would exist (from Apple or other
companies).

~~~
DonHopkins
There's a demand for a non-anemic Mac desktop that isn't a huge overpriced
dead-end waste of money, but that doesn't exist.

~~~
bartread
I could say the same for the Macbook Pro: the current models are an absolute
joke.

------
hjorthjort
Or is this a call for mainstream operating systems and applications to get
creative (read, nice tiling or splitting by default)?

What if all browsers suported single page split view? So that the left side
was your regular view, half width, and the right side was the continuation of
the same page, where the left side ended.

~~~
adtac
How would scrolling work? If both panes went up or down a little, I'd find it
a little jarring. Maybe I would get used to it, I don't know.

~~~
TheCoelacanth
Same as if you have two windows open: whichever one you have the cursor over
scrolls.

------
kev009
On the other hand resolution has gotten to be AMAZING with 4k so I almost
don't care anymore. That might be eye sight dependent as I am able to use
fairly minimal scaling.

I've had over the years ThinkPad 760, 600X (600 was one of the best laptop
ever designed given the constraints in available tech, not sure anything can
ever top it), T42, T61p, T420s and now P50 and it is a worthy family member as
good as any of them. I /really/ wish they had a P4x that was 14" while
retaining the xeon/ecc and 4k but that must be too niche.

I was sad when we lost 4:3 screens.. and was hoping the ThinkPad 25th
Anniversary edition would have been delivered to David Hill's design intent..
just to have a real special piece of art if nothing else, but I don't think
we'll ever see the industry go back.

~~~
mamon
4k is the worst thing that could happen: it is so heavily marketed and has
16:9 aspect ratio. It is only appealing to people who use computer mostly to
watch videos (who, unfortunately are majority of PC users).

The rise of so called "Smart TVs" and tablets gives us a hope that people who
are only interested in watching movies will finally stop buying computers at
all, and once again professional users will be the main focus of laptop and
computer monitor manufacturers :)

~~~
IndrekR
I am a long term multi-screen user (last 16 years or so), including portrait
monitors for document reading (reminds me that some CRTs used to do funny
things in portrait as their cooling was not made for this). I often have
multiple datasheets, PCB layout, schematics and some code open at the same
time. Lately I only use a single screen on the desk and think a good single
32" 4k monitor is quite close do ideal right now. With that resolution and
screen space I really do not need any extra. Learning a few window manager
keyboard shortcuts helps a lot as well. Just my personal experience, YMMV.

~~~
PuffinBlue
I agree. I mentioned it in another comment but you're right, 32 inch up to 40
inch is a good sweet spot with huge flexibility to do what you need.

You can basically use the central 3:2 section for most stuff unless you need
to tile some windows wider, yet you still have huge vertical height to enjoy.
It really is a great way to avoid multiple monitors, bezels and expense.

------
BuildTheRobots
I've been lamenting similar for years; nearly everything I do on a computer
involves long not wide documents.

I've mostly made my peace with a 16:10 monitor as it at least allows me to
have two documents side by side and this is still findable in a laptop.

~~~
petecox
My dual monitor setup has an old 19" with a stand that rotates 90º. Custom
stands are available for any monitor that has the VESA mounting screws.

Laptops are trickier but I'm hoping in the age of tablet-hybrid detachables
that a rotateable tripod comes of age.

------
kristianp
Most of us have never tried, or don't remember what it's like to have a 4:3
screen, it's been so long since they were common. It's hard to have a real
debate about something few people have actually tried.

------
lazyjones
Wide screens are a terrible idea indeed. Another side effect is that they
frequently add another vertical row of keys on the right edge of the keyboard,
just next to Enter/Shift/Backspace. That's just asking for trouble, as if
laptop keyboards weren't bad enough already... The C64 had its function keys
there, but with a huge gap in between for a reason.

------
IdontRememberIt
(Controversial) Corollary resulting from this 16:9 domination: the maximum
length of a source code line should be increased. 80 characters seems to be
not the best fit for modern IDE on 16:9 screens. (I hate that, but praying for
a 16:10 monitor comeback did not work. Also, it is getting worse with hidpi
monitors)

~~~
goerz
No, all source code lines should be max 80 columns wide, always. That way, you
can put a well-defined number of editor panes next to each other on the screen
(3 columns on a 16:9, 2 columns on a 4:3). You're also able to print out
snippets of source code on paper at 10pt font size.

~~~
rhn_mk1
...or 1.5 panes on a different 16:9, or 0.7 panes on a phone screen.

80 character limit sounds like it makes sense for order, but depending on size
& eyesight, a lot of the screen may end up wasted.

    
    
        Personally, I hate nothing more than seeing lines wrapped like
        this when reading
        emails wrapped to 80 characters per line. This wastes vertical
        space, making the
        problem even worse.

------
cairo_x
Agree 110%

I have an external monitor flipped to portrait. Only other option is to get
some kind of beastly tablet set-up.

------
jstewartmobile
For most forms of computer work, he has a point. 16:9 at 27" isn't the same
thing as 16:9 at 15.6".

Browsers, word processors, CLIs, etc. run top-to-bottom, and can make you feel
claustrophobic on the _tiny_ 16:9 screens most laptops have.

------
DerekL
Another reason why laptops are usually widescreen is airplanes. The seat in
front is often reclined, leaving little room for a tall screen.

Also, keyboards are more wide than tall, so an extra wide case allows wider
keys or more space between keys.

------
scarface74
I have what I think is one of the last great 1920x1200 laptop displays. Not
4:3 but better than 1920x1080 It's a Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz Dell from 2008. It
serves as my Plex Server.

At least after 2012 you could get Retina display Macbooks and later PCs that
you could use in other modes without looking bad.

All that being said. For reading, I much prefer my iPad because it is 4:3.

~~~
lttlrck
Yeah I have an old 19” Inspiron with that panel. It’s fantastic - but glossy.

------
chvid
I am professional and I like my wide screen laptop.

Most of the time I am in this editor-thingee where the left-hand side is a
tree-structure showing an overview of the project I am working on and the
right-hand side is some sort of detail view.

Perhaps there are some toolbars too but they are just fine being vertical.

~~~
majewsky
So once again, the rift is between the IDE users and the vim users. :)

------
falcolas
My compromise to address the lack of 4:3 screens: Laptop on the left. One
monitor in normal orientation in the center. One monitor in portrait
orientation on the right.

I still wish for more vertical landscape in the middle, but... ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

------
jbfoo
As a programmer I like panoramic screen very much --- I usually have at least
two panes with code open next to one each other. My four year laptop has HD
screen, which also helps a lot.

I also find horizontal space much more valuable.

------
pathartl
On a 4:3 note I really just want a large 1024x768 (or even 2048x1536) monitor
that's larger than the standard 18" for software preservation purposes. Lots
of games were just made to run at 1024x768.

------
TomK32
I should use my ext display in 9:16 more often. That's the one that makes
sense even if you only work between vim, firefox and the terminal.

------
moondev
I felt like my widescreen wasted a ton of space until I started using a tiling
window manager. My productivity went through the roof!

------
wccrawford
>When it comes right down to it, I find only these two things to be of
paramount importance:

>the highest possible screen,

>the lowest possible weight.

Rotate the monitor sideways. According to the only 2 criteria that matter to
him, a 16:9 monitor on its side is _way_ better than a 4:3 monitor in any
rotation.

~~~
JoBrad
How many laptop monitors can you rotate?

~~~
scotty79
All of them. You just need usb keyboard and mouse and flat stable surface.

~~~
m_mueller
and not being afraid to look like a total freak ;)

------
nukeop
The author presents his own personal opinions as though they were shared by
the majority of programmers, but they're not. 4:3 ratio offers little space
and I found that I actually prefer ultrawide monitors (21:9) to regular HD
ones. The extra width lets me open 4 emacs buffers side by side (or 5-6 if I'm
editing smaller files) which gives me unparalleled possibilities for editing
and comparing code. Of course when it comes to laptops I find 16:9 way better
than 4:3. I don't think we're going to see too many 4:3 laptops in the future.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
Where does the author imply that a majority of programmers prefer 4:3? The
expressions he uses are "many of my colleagues", and "only a part of
[academics and IT professionals, but] still a large group". I think they are
accurate.

I do strongly prefer 4:3. As an academic, a large portion of my time is spent
reading papers in PDF, and opening papers side by side is mostly useless - you
want to read, not compare or copy from one to the other. When coding, it
depends on how your mind works. I understand that many people may want to have
several files on screen at the same time, but my mind works mostly by focusing
on a single file at a time, and rapidly switching context to another. Having
several windows visible at the same time distracts me.

All the author (and other people wanting 4:3, like myself) are saying is that
we want to have 4:3 as an alternative. We do not want to force 4:3 on anyone,
just to be able to buy laptops with 4:3 screen, even if they are a minority of
the product range. Is that that much to ask? Would it be that bad for people
who prefer 16:9 to have 90% of laptop screens designed for them, instead of
100%? Because as long as you are OK with that and you don't need 100% of the
screens to cater to your preference, I don't see why posts like this should
create any controversy at all.

------
mozumder
iPad Pro with keyboard.

~~~
eludwig
Yeah, this was going to be my suggestion, but again, i think it depends on
usage.

I have a 12.9 inch (first gen) iPad Pro. Using it in portrait to read is
completely amazing. It is actually almost too tall for my lap like this (I am
not a large person), but I can just manage.

Some of these folks may be able to get away with this solution if reading
PDFs, web pages, etc. I assume that at this point it is also possible to do
console style development on an iPad (remote apps, ssh, etc). The only bummer
is the iOS local development problem for people that need the software
flexibility of working locally. I really, really wish Apple would allow this.

But for reading and writing, the iPad Pro is pretty darn hard to beat.

~~~
mozumder
Ironically I end up using my iPad Pro mostly for TV, since I already use a
MacBook Pro laptop with a somewhat decent 16:10 screen aspect ratio. But iPad
Pro is such a great reading screen.

Wish Apple made an iPad dedicated for video with 16:9 screen that you could
place on a stand. Was hoping HomePod would have included a screen, like the
Alexa, but it didn't..

------
veritas718
this is so stupid. this guy doesnt want a laptop but a tablet or netbook, and
should be asking why chromebooks dont come in 4:3

this guy's real problem is probably that 768 pixels isnt enough, not the
wasted pixels to make the width 1366; so the solution is probably not being as
cheap, and getting a higher resolution screen on a small latptop

