
Study: Cannabis boosts risk of stroke and heart attack independently of tobacco - vixen99
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/03/09/cannabis-boosts-risk-stroke-heart-attack-independent-tobacco/
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pillowkusis
One thought that occurred as I read this: stress is a known cause of stroke/
heart attack. Perhaps stress-prone individuals seek out cannabis to handle it.
Thus, the cannabis use and heart disease are correlated, but not caused by
each other.

Perhaps the paper addresses this, the article did not.

It seems this article was written using only the press release about this.[0]
The paper would actually provide support for these claims, making it fit for
actually reporting on. But the paper will not be released until March 18. So
it seems no critical thought was put into the article. My expectation is that
journalists report on news once it has been verified, or at least clearly
communicating this lack of fact-checking.

I think it's a classic case of clickbait headline and low-effort journalism.
If they didn't report on this now, some other news outlet (with a lower
standard for news) would, and then by the time it was verified, it would be
"old news". No ad revenue for you.

Nobody is actually enabled to have a discussion about this potential issue
because this reporting is so shoddy. The headline parrots the claim made by
the researcher with no supporting evidence. By the time the facts come out,
the headline has already made its way through the media. So now, we never have
a productive conversation about it, and consumers walk away misinformed at
best.

0: [http://2017.accmedia.org/wp-
content/uploads/2014/03/Kalla_Ma...](http://2017.accmedia.org/wp-
content/uploads/2014/03/Kalla_Marijuana_Consumer-Web-Briefing_Press-
Release.pdf)

~~~
sli
Mine might be a bit of a fluff comment, so I apologize in advance for that,
but it really doesn't help them to have a photo of a spliff in the article and
not a regular joint. There's clearly tobacco mixed with the cannabis in that
rolling paper.

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M_Grey
I want to think that this is the usual anti-cannabis scaremongering, but it
actually seems more like a combination of clickbait and the usual soft
"science" studies. I file this under, "Eggs are good for you/Eggs will murder
your soul". Maybe it's a matter of moderate consumption? In the case of
cannabis in particular, maybe it's a matter of not combusting the damned
stuff? It's hard to imagine that smoke in any form is _good_ for you after
all. Fortunately smoking a plant only became the popular route for cannabis
_once it was made illegal_. Before that, tincture was the way to go.

Most people don't want to walk around with a joint hanging out of their mouth,
but they'd be fine with a breath-strip with fractionally distilled CBD or
whole plant extract. People who would reasonably scoff at inhaling burning
plant fumes, might be comfortable with a medical vaporizer and a CO2 extracted
product with lab tests to vouch for it.

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stronglikedan
I wonder if this takes all methods of ingestion into account. My cardiologist
told me to eat all I want - just don't smoke it, and the jury is still out on
vaping.

~~~
hprotagonist
I was wondering the same thing. Inhaling smoke is just not a smart idea if you
like oxygen, but that does not implicate cannabis per se as being a causative
factor for cardiovascular trouble.

~~~
M_Grey
Whereas for example, tobacco smoke has been shown to be especially harmful. I
think the popularity of smoking tobacco has shaped the views of many as to the
nature of smoking anything else. As you say, it's hard to imagine smoking
anything is a good idea, but that doesn't mean that it's all COPD, heart
attacks, and strokes either.

Just anecdotally, people who smoke a lot of cannabis rather than vaping or
eating it seem to me, to get a lot more upper respiratory inactions,
bronchitis and the like. Will that shave years off your life? Maybe, maybe
not, but it's still clearly something to pay attention to, when the
alternatives to smoke exist.

~~~
hprotagonist
Yeah. Inhaling hot particulate matter is going to put some level of unneeded
stress on your lungs. I think that's pretty well-established.

what comprises that particulate matter may be incidental to its health effects
-- grain size probably matters more than grain composition.

------
jwdunne
I think inhaling smoke is the key here. Do nicotine patches increase risk of
heart disease and stroke?

I imagine wood smoke is full of carcinogens too. Same with plastic.

We were just not built to inhale smoke chronically.

~~~
entee
Nicotine is a known stimulant and vasoconstrictor so one could imagine that
it's not great for long term cardiovascular health. That said, it seems
consensus is that it's better than smoking [1] (quite old I know).

EDIT: Also, yes wood smoke has bad things in it [2], but dose and dilution
make the poison. In the developing world, poor venting of wood stoves is a
real health problem [3].

[1]
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109797...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S073510979700079X)
[2] [https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-
health](https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-health) [3]
[http://www.unfoundation.org/who-we-are/impact/our-
impact/dec...](http://www.unfoundation.org/who-we-are/impact/our-
impact/decreasing-child-mortality/time-to-tackle-one-of-the-worlds-deadliest-
killers-cookstove-smoke.html)

~~~
djtriptych
Quickening and impeding the heart just makes it work harder to get the same
job done. Why wouldn't we think this has similar effects to mild exercise on
long term CV performance?

~~~
entee
That's a good point, and I don't know. Though I would propose that there's a
difference between chronic stressor and short term stressors. In the case of
exercise you're fluctuating up and down, in the case of a nicotine patch, you
might be more constantly stressed.

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jboggan
I've really been wondering about the long term effects of marijuana smoke, in
particular the bewildering strains that have been bred in response to market
forces and growing constraints over the past 50 years. I have a feeling that
it is going to be the Millennial generation's "why didn't anyone tell us!"
chronic health problem.

Pointless anecdata: a conversation with a coroner in Washington State reveals
his observation that since legalization occurred the lung quality of younger
folks dying for unrelated/accidental reasons has been atrocious.

~~~
crawfordcomeaux
I'm betting we find a notable difference in effects based on what people are
doing after ingesting in different ways. I suspect certain types of mental &
physical exercises done at some point after ingestion could help to a large
degree.

~~~
jboggan
I'm solely talking about the long term effects of filling your lungs with fine
particulates.

~~~
crawfordcomeaux
Gotcha. Maybe we can find a way to think the particulates out of our body?

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Nav_Panel
Link to the actual study?

~~~
49para
"...when marijuana use was illegal in most states."

"It identified 316,000 patients - 1.5 per cent - where marijuana use was
diagnosed in the notes."

I'm not a researcher but I would suspect there are massive holes in this
research. How many of these people would not voluntarily reveal MJ usage given
it's illegality or stigma. The amount of MJ usage/duration during the
patient's lifetime etc is also a huge factor.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
I would not reveal cannabis use to my GP, nor would I advise any person in the
US to do so. A note can (probably will) be made in your medical records. That
note may follow you around, and cause doctors to treat you as a "drug-seeking"
patient.

~~~
tunap
Not necessarily disagreeing, but AFAIK, "Delta-Sierras" are after hard drugs.
MMJ is not(yet?) a problem for medics. It is still illegal federally, so you
could expect that to be used against you in a variety of dubiously connected
ways.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
I live in a red state where cannabis is as hard a drug as as you can get as
far as the law is concerned.

