
Ask HN: As programmers, why are we still going to the office? - aecorredor
I’m stuck in bad traffic and started thinking that the status quo for the office is pretty unnecessary.
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craftyguy
I actually enjoy regularly seeing the people I work with, and working in the
office is somehow less distracting sometimes than working at home (where the
desire to do anything but work is a bit higher).

Also, this title should have a 'Ask HN'.

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umichguy
Same here, I enjoy seeing my colleagues as well. But I prefer something like
2/3 days in the office and rest from home. This arrangement works better for
me, covers all my needs/preferences.

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bowlich
As a remote worker of 6 years whose recently spent two weeks having to commute
in the city. Thank god for my 30 foot commute from bed to across the hallway
into the office.

Really wish the government would start forcing employers to pay employees for
their average commute times. Would really encourage allowing remote work or
relocation into smaller residential areas. It's hard to fathom why being stuck
in traffic isn't considered work. Certainly feels like it.

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niij
> Really wish the government would start forcing employers

I understand your sentiment, but why is it that government coercion is
necessary? You're allowed to run your own businesses as you see fit. If you
work for someone else and don't like the arrangement, then fix it.

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antoineMoPa
But businesses generally don't care about employees stuck in traffic,
pollution, global warming, accidents, etc.

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niij
That's right. If you disagree with it, the great thing is you're able to start
your own business and run it the way you see fit.

It's a lot easier to point out what businesses are doing wrong than to start
and run your own "the right way".

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UK-Al05
Because it's an externality, no company will take on an externality willingly

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user68858788
Does any engineer over mid-level actually still code for most of their day?
I'm sure there are exceptions, but most senior engineers I've worked with
spend most of their time communicating with other teams, laying out
architecture, and code reviews.

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warmblanket
I’m sure that depends on company culture. What you describe in a way sounds
like big company culture. I am curious how this works in mostly-remote
companies.

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vikingcaffiene
Been working remotely for 7 years. Started to think I might want to work in an
office so I interviewed for an on site position. On the drive there I got
stuck in traffic. On the drive back the same. Cured me of that idea real fast.

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towndrunk
One word: communication

Software engineering or programming, whatever you want to call it is a social
thing.

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Koshkin
It is no longer necessary to relocate your body just to communicate with other
people. Manufacturing (of material things) is still another story, but
pervasive use of remote control, virtual reality, and robotics might change
even that.

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amingilani
I've been working remotely for 2 years now and have begun to crave an on-site
job. I'm rejecting remote offers nowadays because I really want to move to a
different country and work with great engineers in an office where we can talk
in person and not over Slack all the time.

It gets tedious and lonely when the nerdiest person I know around me is me. I
can't even talk to my friends or family about the clever hacks I did because
they couldn't begin to understand the complexity. I mean, sure, I give dumbed
down versions all the time: but they're always met with a customary pat on the
back (with a smile) and we move onto another topic that we all know very well.

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PenguinCoder
Wow, this is surprising to me. I am the exact opposite position. I am
rejecting offers that want relocation or NOT offering remote work. I get my
social interaction from a few close friends and feel way less anxiety about
not having to play office politics to get ahead. As another commentor said,
it's especially a huge benefit to me in terms of getting my own te back
instead of having a dreadful commute as well.

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matt_the_bass
Why do you think there are no office politics for remote positions?
Conversely, why do you think that on site must have more politics?

Maybe I’m an outlier, but at the company I built there is VERY little office
politics. Most of us work onsite most of the time, but most of us also work
remote sometimes. Some of my colleagues are about 50/50 in the office. We try
to coordinate similar remote schedules to maximize in person communication
when people are in the office.

We seem to be doing well with most engineers staying at least 5 years and many
staying over 15.

~~~
amingilani
I definitely feel that remote work reduces politics and I'm valued in terms of
my performance than anything else. Your organization may have less politics
than most, and I commend you but it's easier for politics to creep in on-site.

But when your performance is tracked empirically for everyone in the
organization to see, everyone knows how much you're worth.

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aecorredor
Thanks for all the replies everybody. My bad for missing the “Ask HN” part,
kind of posted this pretty fast. Yeah, I think that for me the pro that I give
to working on site is the social aspect of it. But as far as productivity, I
get much more done when I’m working from home. I also think that less people
driving for god knows how many hours a year would also bring a million other
collateral benefits for everybody. I live in Miami and I think about the
infrastructure that we have for the number of people that live here, and it
just seems crazy that it hasn’t improved at all in the 8 years I’ve been here.
Hopefully autonomous cars + hyperloop really take off pretty soon. Anyway,
thanks again for your thoughts on this random end of the day question ;)

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dkobia
As a remote worker of over 12 years I'm definitely enjoying getting back to in
person interaction, especially during the colder months when people socialize
a lot less. A mix of going to an office and working at home is hard to beat.

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drstewart
As someone who just went back to the office after working remote, I agree.
Companies need to allow working remote more often. I don't need to be remote
100%, but having the option to work for a week or two somewhere else is great.

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shujutech
Because employers is hiring your service base on time and not according to
delivery.

Need to devise a system where programmers are paid base on deliveries and not
time.

It's also more fair to be paid base on deliveries instead of time.

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bootsz
Yeah. If I was paid the same for the actual output I produce I estimate I
could hold the equivalent of at least 3 desk jobs simulatenously and triple my
income. I suspect the same is true for many people. Large companies are not
very efficient at utilizing people. Ironically I think companies in which
people work remotely a lot tend to be the _most_ results-oriented and less
tolerant of people wasting time...because there is no way to keep up an
illusion of productivity with “butts in seats”. So what you end up with is
quite contrary to the myth of remote workers being unproductive.

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piinbinary
I think it can be boiled down to: companies see potential costs but no
potential advantages (for them).

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tachikomagenius
Was a remote programmer but I thought I needed human interaction to keep me
sane but I think the horrible traffic is doing the opposite of my goal.

Suddenly, doing remote work and feeling like a shut-in is so much more
comfortable.

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hn17
Why we are going to the office? In most cases I saw it's because management
wants to have more control, more performance and possibility to change our
environment in any moment. Also most of the employers want us to work same
amount of time daily and for all of the week. If it changes it will only if
goverment will change the law or something big happens. It is simply more
profitable for employers and they have upper hand for most of the people.

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jodrellblank
As people in a world of machines and computers and extremely efficient
farming, why are we still working 8hrs a day 5 days a week for food and
shelter?

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craftyguy
Because any sort of talk about "redistribution of wealth and resources"
conjures up deep fears of "communism" and "socialism" in older folks who were
around when that was a popular thing.

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jodrellblank
Things I didn't bring into it at all.

Why isn't it more common for people to live on 2days/week work instead of
5days/week?

And I mean lots of people, and without the current stigma of "living in a van
by the river" or the niche "tiny house" people" who have been accused of
wanting the cost of living in a trailer park without the stigma of it - well,
why shouldn't they want that? And .. why shouldn't everyone want basic housing
and food, for a basic price, as a normal thing to do?

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bGl2YW5j
I'm in complete agreement with you. The modern work system needs to change! We
all deserve to be actually living lives instead of being forced into 5
day/week jobs if we don't want to!

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vondur
No one is forcing you to work.

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zorga
Many of us aren't, haven't worked anywhere but home in nearly a decade; full
time remote work is great.

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slics
Without office space there is no networking. Without networking there is no
real means to find a better job when the time is to move on. Humans are meant
to collaborate and share perspectives. But again, it depends on what career
path you choose on the next venture.

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lolsal
If you can’t network without office space, what have I been doing the last 10
years?

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cyberpvnk
I'm still sitting in an office at an open team table, all Commons, no caves.
#sad

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warmblanket
A truly horrible environment for anyone with anything resembling ADHD. And
probably those without difficulty concentrating as well.

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honkycat
It takes time expertise and investment to actually effectively track
programmer productivity.

A lot of organizations don't have the resources to do that, so time in seat
and making sure your workers seem productive is a decent alternative.

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dev_north_east
To be social? That's what I like about it most.

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chrisbennet
I’m a consultant and I usually work alone in my own office (near home) but
it’s nice to visit clients where I work on site for a few weeks once in a
while. I would hate it if there was a big commute though.

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steve_taylor
Managers want to literally see what they’re spending all that money on.

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ShorsHammer
Middle management also appear less useful when there's only 4 underlings in
the office.

A lot of the inertia to remote work I've seen was mainly about managerial
ego/job security rather than any actual logistical challenge.

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umichguy
So true. At my last job, one of my managers used to complain that he wasn't
"seeing" more of his people in the office. Never mind the fact that the stuff
actually got done on time and under budget. He had a wife and 3 kids at home
and office was his "refuge," and came into the office every single day. So, he
wanted people around him.

He was also a smooth-talking backstabbing _insert choice curse word here_. But
that's a story for another day.

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lostgame
I know I’m certainly not. I work for a major bank in Canada in their iOS
application and we have one of the most robust remote working situations I’ve
seen.

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vtesucks
Compared to?

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AnimalMuppet
To anything else lostgame has seen, I presume. That's literally what the post
said.

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FahadUddin92
One word: "hygiene."

\--> Only reason for taking bath daily.

\--> Shaving weekly.

\--> Keeping yourself clean and presentable.

