
Bitcoin promoter Shrem indicted in NY for money laundering - downandout
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/14/us-usa-crime-bitcoin-idUSBREA3D1RU20140414
======
downandout
Fortunately, this case is much more about Charlie Shrem and his penchant for
violating laws than Bitcoin itself. I think this guy - who now refers to
himself as "Charlie van Bitcoin" \- just doesn't get it. There are laws out
there, and he doesn't seem to want to follow them. Here's an example:

He is out on bail on this case right now. As someone out on bail for a federal
felony, he is prohibited from using or possessing deadly weapons (knives, guns
etc.). There are people in his position that have found themselves in trouble
over kitchen knives. Yet Charlie publicly posted yesterday that he is the
proud new owner of a World War II Nazi Dagger.

[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566300.msg6202174#ms...](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566300.msg6202174#msg6202174)

He will eventually learn, but apparently he hasn't yet.

~~~
josu
This is a common behavior among many libertarians/ancaps (although still a
minority). They tend to believe that they can live outside the law. And it's
sad, because they usually don't harm anybody with their little misdemeanors.
It usually looks more like a child reveling against their parent's arbitrary
laws, than a crime for which they should go to jail or even prison.

Adam Kokesh would be a very good example. [1] [2]

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kokesh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kokesh)
[2] [http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/activist-adam-kokesh-
rep...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/activist-adam-kokesh-reportedly-
arrested-in-
herndon/2013/07/10/73dbc8c2-e943-11e2-8f22-de4bd2a2bd39_story.html)

~~~
downandout
Although I have issues with anyone that would buy Nazi memorabilia (I am not
Jewish, but I am human), I agree that his intent probably isn't to take this
small sword he bought and go on a stabbing spree. That won't matter though;
the moment a pre-trial services officer sees this thing in his house during
routine searches that are usually a condition of federal bail, his bail will
be revoked at a minimum, and he may face new charges.

He's going out of his way to thumb his nose at the Court; they tend to frown
on that.

~~~
afarrell
It does kinda depend on the reason for buying Nazi memorabilia. For example,
if you are ever in the northwestern part of the mitt of Michigan, I highly
suggest visiting the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia:
[http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/](http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/)

But I'm sure the most common reason for someone who would buy a Hitler Youth
knife is to be edgy.

~~~
rdl
I have a Nazi proof-marked Mauser K98 rifle. I like it much more because it
was later bought by the IDF, rebarreled to 7.62x51mm, and marked with the IDF
star. There are a lot of reasons to own such things.

~~~
emhart
Wow. Any photos?

------
jluxenberg
According to 31 CFR 1022.320 [1], your bank is legally required to report on
any transaction that it "knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect ...
involves funds derived from illegal activity"

I don't know how the Treasury Department expects my bank to know if
transactions involve funds derived from illegal activity, but damn is that
creepy.

[1]
[http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/1022.320](http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/1022.320)

~~~
xux
I'm curiously why you think that's creepy. If you suddenly deposit $5 million,
but your salary is $100k / year, that's pretty suspicious and report-able.

~~~
D9u
What's _really creepy_ is the fact that the big bankers can get away with
laundering billions in drug cartel profits, yet not a single person has yet to
answer for these crimes.

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-
mexico-...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-
gangs)

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-29/banks-financing-
mex...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-29/banks-financing-mexico-s-
drug-cartels-admitted-in-wells-fargo-s-u-s-deal.html)

------
sillysaurus3
Setting aside the fact that allegedly he was doing illegal things, it's
interesting to note that PGP didn't protect him.

(I'm basing this on two assumptions: SR encourages its users to use PGP, so
therefore unless he was blindingly stupid, he, too, was using PGP; and that he
never slipped up once. The second assumption is probably invalid.)

Anyone have details as to how these charges came about?

~~~
veemjeem
I would think that it was traced via bitcoin, not pgp.

~~~
jordanbaucke
Its worth noting there was no indication that BTCKing and Mr. Shrem used PGP
to encrypt their communication.

~~~
dobbsbob
From the original arrest it said he was using his work email @bitinstant to
communicate with BTCKing and I don't remember anything about PGP being used.

Shrem is screwed, because all those emails are highly incriminating with him
actively helping BTCKing avoid being flagged in the system for laundering
checks. BTCKing was originally caught because he's a drug addict supporting
his habit by exchanging coins and was completely sloppy and careless with
everything.

------
downandout
Here's the indictment:

[http://www.scribd.com/doc/218320971/Charlie-Shrem-
Indictment](http://www.scribd.com/doc/218320971/Charlie-Shrem-Indictment)

------
kolev
I'm getting tired already of all this noise around Bitcoin. It's a nice
technology, okay, terribly wasteful in terms of resources, but regardless - it
won't help us colonize the space, it won't help us reach Singularity sooner,
it won't help extend lifespan and do other meaningful things - it could
potentially (although very unlikely) make some lazy hoarders rich and that's
it. Bitcoin really turned into a scum of the Earth magnet - just reading the
comments under any negative article makes you realize the kind of human waste
that's behind the bubble!

~~~
olalonde
> it won't help us colonize the space, it won't help us reach Singularity
> sooner, it won't help extend lifespan and do other meaningful things

Would you have said the same about Paypal? Because if you did, you'd have been
wrong. Plus, among the set of technologies/companies that are discussed on HN,
not that many are directly related to the goals you mentioned.

Perhaps Bitcoin is wasteful due to its Proof-of-Work system but you have to
consider how wasteful the alternative is. How much human capital is wasted in
operating the deposit banking and payments industry? How much land and
resources are wasted to physically secure cash in bank vaults and move it
around? How much efficiency is lost to high transaction fees or lack of access
to the banking system? How many services which haven't yet been invented would
be enabled by a distributed ledger? I'm not saying Bitcoin would wipe out
those industries completely but it could certainly make parts of them
obsolete.

I think it's wrong to dismiss the technology just because you dislike its
community. The web was once a wild west as well.

~~~
kolev
PayPal never had the speculation appeal! PayPal, Venmo, Dwolla, Stripe,
Balanced, Ribbon, Square, and others are all great services. They change the
world in different ways - I buy with credit cards at Farmers Markets now,
Stripe saved endless developer hours simplifying integration, Dwolla offers
even lower than Bitcoin cost for accepting payments, etc. Bitcoin fans should
learn from Elon Musk - the guy is a genius and, yet, he is a lot more humble
than the average satoshi hoarder with a quarter of a Bitcoin waiting for the
price to hit $1M apiece!

The technology never matters as much as the community! The Internet was
created by nerds, not speculators!

~~~
olalonde
Your comment is obviously emotionally charged. I agree that the satoshi
hoarders can be extremely annoying at times but I maintain that you should
distance your opinion of the technology from the community. In fact, the
Bitcoin community has been dilluting over time as it gains in popularity and
it's getting harder and harder to meaningfuly talk of a Bitcoin community.

~~~
kolev
Ripple is a better piece of technology, but because it lacks the "get rich
quick" appeal, it's not nearly as popular. Dogecoin has a much more positive
community than Bitcoin!

~~~
makomk
The other problem with Ripple is that it _is_ set up as a "get rich quick"
scheme, but only for the founders. In order to carry out transactions you need
XRP, they're the only ones who can sell you more XRP, and they have the
ability to change how much XRP every transaction costs at any time.

