

Tesla loses plot, sues Top Gear - dman
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/30/tesla-sues-top-gear-for-libel-new-stig-unavailable-for-comment/

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semanticist
It'd be good if Top Gear was more clearly 'labelled' as fictionalised
entertainment. In the UK the brand/programme name still carries the
associations of 'old' Top Gear, which was a factual motor review programme
(which was cancelled, the format - but not name - sold to Channel 5, and then
relaunched with the new format). Most of their challenges are staged, and I
don't think they'd lose entertainment value by being clearer that it's
fiction.

It'd also be good if they stopped pandering to Daily-Mail-reading-racists. The
Mexican stuff in the last series was horrific. I wish BBC America had had the
balls to include it in their version, if only so they'd have to deal with the
enraged viewers.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
They play conkers with caravans, do you think it really needs pointing out
that this is an entertainment show?

~~~
semanticist
No, but it needs to be pointed out that it's fictional entertainment.

They have races and competitions between each other which are staged and
adapted for dramatic results. The few car reviews they do are similarly
dramatised. Does the viewer understand that the car didn't break down, that
the person on the motorbike didn't coincidentally reach the same point as the
person in the car, or whatever?

I suspect that most people don't realise that Top Gear is fictional
entertainment instead of factual entertainment, because the extremely long-
running brand of the show is rooted in factual entertainment.

Suing them over a fictional review is foolish, but if you were expecting an
honest review of your product and got back a dramatised narrative you'd
probably be pissed off too.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
> If you were expecting an honest review of your product and got back a
> dramatised narrative you'd probably be pissed off too.

We're talking about a car company here. Are you suggesting that a car company
are going to not understand what Top Gear is about? The sort of show it is and
the significant chance that the review will be dramatised and tongue in cheek?

If Tesla sent them a car believing that then they should fire their marketing
people who should have made it absolutely clear and then resign themselves for
ignoring what 15 seconds thought would have told them.

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rvkennedy
Hmm. I don't recall what I'd call "lambasting" - most viewers came away with a
very positive impression of the Tesla - especially as it outperformed the
Lotus in some areas. The bit about pushing it into the garage was obviously
staged, and for humorous effect.

And to claim that providing two cars to the TV crew invalidates the point
about range is a little bit outrageous. It's like saying "they cheated by not
letting us cheat."

~~~
robryan
Little weird they would be bothering, if Tesla won this case a large amount of
the cars featured on the show could surely win similar cases. It's part of the
show to pickup on cars flaws and over emphasise them.

~~~
arethuza
Indeed, that Bentley they had in Albania completely put me off ever buying
one!

------
dman
An auto company targeting auto enthusiasts suing Top Gear is like a tech
startup suing YCombinator. In nine cases out of ten the loss of goodwill is
going to make this a losing proposition.

~~~
bigohms
This suit has parallels to Dan Snyder (NFL team owner - Washngton Redskins)
suing a local city paper for a rather humorous (and factual) A-Z account of
his mismanagement. The original post:
[http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-
cranky...](http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky-
redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder/)

The suit: [http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/02/dan-snyder-lawsuit-a-
com...](http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/02/dan-snyder-lawsuit-a-complete-
analysis-49871.html)

~~~
eli
Except all the stuff about Dan Snyder was AFAIK true. While it's entirely
possible that the Top Gear guys, ahem, exaggerated some of Tesla's failings.

Edit: Still, it seems rather boneheaded to try to solve a minor PR problem
from two years ago with a lawsuit that is certain to be very public.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>Edit: Still, it seems rather boneheaded to try to solve a minor PR problem
from two years ago with a lawsuit that is certain to be very public.

Actually, I don't think this is boneheaded.

Tesla are probably finding no-one is touching them because somehow, _ahem_ Top
Gear, everyone has the impression that the car will run for 50miles and then
pack in and your only option will be to tow it home and charge it for 16hours
to get another 50miles.

This suit will at the very least raise the point that Top Gear misrepresented
the mileage that one can expect to get and that they failed to mention fast-
charging schemes. It's likely to get mentioned on Top Gear and in just about
every motoring magazine and on every tech site everywhere. I think even a few
million on the suit would be better spent than trying to reverse this
perception through advertising.

If I were in Tesla's target population then learning that Top Gear lied and
that the mileage is actually a lot better than it appeared would probably put
me back on track for a sale whilst learning that Tesla is suing Top Gear
wouldn't negatively affect my purchase decision.

TL;DR I think this is a win for Tesla overall.

~~~
eli
I understand what you're saying but IMHO a two year old episode of Top Gear is
has literally no effect on any sales problems Tesla may or may not be having.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
You're almost certainly right, now. But for the last two years, one of the
biggest voices and possibly the only popular UK TV show to focus on
"supercars"/"performance cars" ... if there has been no effect I'd be a little
surprised.

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RiderOfGiraffes
Surely they are deliberately going for the Streisand effect, to raise
awareness of their existence by doing something the show's enthusiasts will
always remember them for and getting wider publicity into the bargain.

ADDED IN EDIT: Is someone going around downvoting all my comments? This is
really strange. Please, if you downvoted this let me know why so I can adjust
my actions accordingly.

<FX: retreats, shaking head in confusion>

~~~
vaksel
So does that mean you own a Morris Marina?

------
vaksel
wow these guys are such whiners.

Top Gear makes fun of everyone...and it's not like they hinted at something
that would never happen

Other manufacturers are mature enough to understand that TG is a comedy show
about cars, and their stunts are covered by satire.

And of course Top Gear will retaliate...they always do in cases like this.

~~~
eftpotrm
Yes, but....

The show's main presenter has been well known as having politically
conservative views for many, many years. If you watch, the vast bulk of his
output is joking in that general direction when it's joking. Frankly, if I
were Tesla, I wouldn't have let my car appear; it smacked of a set-up against
the green bogeyman who was trying to stop their fun.

There seems to be a growing tendency at the moment in the UK at least for
people with politically conservative views to express these loudly,
prominently and repeatedly in a more forceful tone than they could otherwise
use, with an _I'm only having a bit of fun, it's just a joke, can't you just
grow up and take it?_ tacked on to the end, trying to belittle those who might
take offence at their assertions. If these people want to express their views
from such a platform (by which I mean a prominent one, the fact of this being
on the BBC isn't an issue for me), they should have the nerve to stand behind
it.

~~~
philjackson
"they should have the nerve to stand behind it"

So summarise, are you saying Jeremy Clarkson doesn't stand behind his
political statements? That's simply not true, have you never seen his columns
in the Times? Clarkson gets a terribly hard time for his views and he doesn't
waver a bit, whether you agree with him or not, you have to give him some
credit.

~~~
eftpotrm
I agree, I've seen his columns and he's firmly standing behind his ill-
informed bigotry. A pity, because if you see some of his writing as a younger
man 25 years ago he was interesting, funny and observant while still
demonstrably holding the same political views; now far more he's a frustrated
bigot railing against the modern world.

Watch Top Gear though (which I do and largely enjoy), and there's a relatively
regular stream of reactionary material with a 'boys will be boys' tongue in
cheek. The problem is, it's consistently in the same direction and at the same
targets; it's using a cover of comedy and his TV persona to make attacks he
couldn't otherwise make in such a platform. Jeremy Clarkson the newspaper
columnist stands behind his positions, I agree; Jeremy Clarkson the TV
character often tries to make much the same attacks while laughing them off as
'just a bit of fun'. That isn't intellectually honest.

~~~
philjackson
"Jeremy Clarkson the TV character often tries to make much the same attacks
while laughing them off as 'just a bit of fun'. That isn't intellectually
honest."

Are you talking about the more extreme rubbish like "all lorry drivers are
prostitute murderers"? His genuine political opinions like the ones he has on
bendy buses, speed cameras, the M4 bus lane etc. strike me as genuine and not
veiled in the 'boys will be boys' disguise you talk of.

I should probably bail from this conversation lest people mistake me as a JC
supporter, I just think you're being a little unfair.

------
nhebb
I don't want to dog pile on them because Tesla seems like such a promising
company, and despite this PR disaster, I hope they pull through to
profitability. They're trying to push the technology for electric vehicles
forward, and they're going to use the vacated NUMMI plant in Freemont, which
is commendable. So I'll cut them some slack. A lot of slack.

~~~
ams6110
Sorry to rain on your parade but battery-only powered electric cars still have
too limited a range and take too long to recharge to be practical for most
people. They may find a niche with people who can afford to have a separate
car for a modest daily commute, but most people don't have the cash to tie up
in an extra car just to be "green" (which electric cars aren't, really).

~~~
whatusername
Have you seen www.betterplace.com

They have an answer for the range/recharge complaints (switching stations)

------
Tyrannosaurs
As an aside under the proposed new English libel laws this case couldn't be
bought as they've waited two years from first publication (the new laws place
a limit of a year).

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dmazin
I'm not sure what's wrong with this really. Top Gear (pretends to be) is a car
reviewer, and they made false claims in a car review. They are surely a comedy
show but that segment was just astonishing.

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watchandwait
Normally Tesla's lawyers are busy in Washington, D.C., fleecing U.S. taxpayers
for handouts. The company is one of the biggest welfare queens in America,
they have almost no revenue and yet the government has given them hundreds of
millions in unsecured loans.

~~~
api
BP got far more in government handouts to pay for their Gulf oil rig blowout
disaster. In a free market, BP would now be bankrupt as it would have had to
pay for the cleanup of hundreds and hundreds of miles of damaged coastal
property as well as compensating fishermen for millions (or billions?) in lost
revenue.

Just to give one example. Just saying.

We live in a welfare state. Criticizing people for accepting welfare in a
welfare state is like criticizing people for speeding at Nascar. _Everybody_
does it. Every major corporation has lawyers and lobbyists in Washington to
get as much pork as they possibly can.

~~~
anamax
> Criticizing people for accepting welfare in a welfare state is like
> criticizing people for speeding at Nascar. Everybody does it.

Actually, "everybody" doesn't do it. You can't subsidize everyone because you
run out of money long before that. The vast majority of us don't get
subsidies.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

------
fleitz
You can't drop lithium ion batteries much below 25% charge or they start to
die. If you fully discharge a lithium ion battery it's dead forever. That's
how the Tesla engineers knew it didn't drop below 25% charge because otherwise
the car would be undrivable. Why is it unbelievable that a car with a normal
range of 200 miles would only get 55 on a track? If your car normally gets 400
miles to a tank it would not be unreasonable to expect 100 miles during a
track day.

~~~
po
That's also why lithium batteries include circuitry to shut down when they get
to x%. When they say they are at 25% then they are really at 25% of what is
"safe" for the technology. It's not like if your laptop drops to 0% you can't
boot it again. Don't you think that when they say it had 25% charge they are
talking about what the battery was reporting?

~~~
fleitz
Knowing lawyers, probably not. Look at the crap SCEA is putting infront of the
court against an 18 year old kid. Also, 25% is known as a quarter tank where
people who don't like to run out of gas decide that it's time to fill up,
since you can't 'fill up' a Tesla, that means you have to go home. It also
means that if you drive your car 55 miles away from home in track like
conditions you'll be pushing your car home.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>It also means that if you drive your car 55 miles away from home in track
like conditions you'll be pushing your car home.

In the UK you'd probably have been stopped by the police and have several
speeding tickets if you were lucky enough to do the 55 miles on public roads
at track speeds (0-60mph in 3.7s, limiter hits at 125mph) without killing
anyone or wrecking the car.

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geoffw8
Its such a PR flop. The thing I can't understand is why they'd want to draw
attention to the fact a very well read/watched/trusted program wrote a very
poor review of your product.

Why on earth would you give it a second life?

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raarky
here's hoping they do nice segment tearing tesla apart in their usual witty
style :)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Yeah they can go all out on how it's got a far better range than Top Gear
presented it having and how it can be charge under best conditions in 4 hours.
Tesla will cry all the way to the bank ...

~~~
nickbp
More like "oh, you've got a Tesla? Isn't that the car company that sued Top
Gear? Hahaha!"

~~~
pbhjpbhj
[possible response] "Yeah, it's the one that whipped the Lotus' ass so bad
that Jeremy got scared and had to lie to make it look crippled. Apparently the
BBC still haven’t learnt about not lying on public funds ... Hey ho, wanna
race?".

~~~
guscost
"Sure. My pit crew will use a gas pump, yours will use a charging station."

