
FreeBSD now available on all EC2 instance types - cperciva
http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2012-01-16-FreeBSD-now-on-all-EC2-instance-types.html
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antirez
What advantages FreeBSD offers over Linux so that for the next installation on
EC2 one would consider running it instead of Linux? (question is not
rhetorical)

~~~
cperciva
I don't think there's anything specific to EC2; so your question just reduces
to "why FreeBSD rather than Linux?"

There's a lot of differences which are more matters of taste than anything
else: FreeBSD's ports system, the rc.d startup system, the fact that the
kernel and userland are developed in tandem rather than independently, the
presence of a central SVN repository, et cetera. I like all of these, but I
know there are Linux people who prefer the "Linux approach" for each of these.

Some things which I've heard even hardened Linuxites saying make them tempted
to try FreeBSD, however: ZFS, DTrace, LLVM/clang (now building the entire
FreeBSD base system), virtualized networking, Capsicum. Also new in 9.0, but
not getting much attention yet, is journaled soft-updates -- essentially the
"best of both worlds", using soft-updates for the 99% of operations which
soft-updates can handle quickly and safely, and journaling the remaining 1% to
ensure that a dirty fsck is fast.

~~~
clarkevans
Colin, Thank you so much for your wonderful work.

I'd add that "jails" are a very cool, under appreciated feature of FreeBSD. It
is especially useful for packaging up and delivering applications as a single
unit. While it may seem that they are in competition to virtual machines, I
think of them as being a complement.

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wunki
Thank you for your work and persistence Colin! I love using FreeBSD for my
servers because of the consistency and great minds behind it. I love it so
much that I have written a few posts how to setup a FreeBSD server [1].

Currently there are some other options for hosting your "virtual" FreeBSD
server. Some good ones are RootBSD [2] (US), Brightbox [3] (UK) and TransIP
[4] (NL). Quality wise that are equally good. I'm currently using TransIP
because I'm located in the Netherlands.

Interesting to note is that the above providers make use of KVM virtualization
technology. Phoronix did an interesting benchmark comparing Xen, Virtualbox
and KVM. It showed that KVM was the winner on compute and disk performance
[5]. Would be interesting to find out how FreeBSD performance on Amazon's XEN
layer.

[1] <https://www.wunki.org/> [2] <https://www.rootbsd.net/> [3]
<http://brightbox.com/> [4] <https://www.transip.nl/> [5]
[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubunt...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_1110_xenkvm)

~~~
cperciva
Phoronix is infamous for its broken benchmarks. I'm sure the disk performance
numbers would look completely different if they used paravirtualized disks
(like EC2 does) rather than emulated disks. The compute numbers are just plain
weird; on something as cache-resident as ripper it should be impossible for
the virtualization system to cause any significant real effect, so I'm sure
there's a problem with their benchmark or their test setup somewhere.

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wickedchicken
I've always been curious about running a pure BSD on the open net, but its
very hard to find cheap VPSes which will do that (and meet my other needs).
Hopefully this will pave the way for that.

~~~
getsat
I'm still looking for the BSD version of Linode. Instant, automatic
provisioning and pro-rated billing.

Every BSD VPS provider I've tried so far has been lacking in interface, auto-
provisioning, or have shady cancellation terms.

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brndnhy
<http://arpnetworks.com/>

I was a customer for several months and the level of service was very good.
Good peering, too.

~~~
getsat
I've used them before. You could only connect to the VNC console once, and
then you were locked out (which is a joke), and they don't do automatic
provisioning. Pass.

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woodrow
cperciva: I know that some time back you said you'd signed an NDA with Amazon
which prevented you from discussing what made this possible. Has that passed
now? Was defenestration of Windows AMIs the secret?

~~~
cperciva
My NDA with Amazon is still in effect. I don't think it ever covered the fact
that Windows AMIs could be defenestrated.

~~~
calloc
Any chance of getting Amazon to make these AMI's the same price as the
Unix/Linux ones?

~~~
cperciva
Not a decision for me to make, I'm afraid... I don't even work for Amazon. But
I've complained enough times that I'm sure they're aware of the demand.

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mbell
I guess i don't use FreeBSD much, but my primary use of the OS is for pfsense
which runs both my home router and also the routers I use for VMs running on
dedicated VMWare servers.

I do know that FreeBSD's handling of network activity appears to be second to
none, but given Amazon's load balancing system, I'm curious what people are
actively using FreeBSD for outside this space? Particularly in regards to EC2.

~~~
SomeOtherGuy
>I do know that FreeBSD's handling of network activity appears to be second to
none

It is certainly second to OpenBSD. Probably third behind NetBSD even.

~~~
cperciva
Ok, I'll bite: What do you think is wrong with FreeBSD's network stack?

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SomeOtherGuy
I don't know what you are biting or why, but your question makes no sense. I
didn't say anything was wrong with FreeBSD, I simply pointed out that
networking is one of OpenBSD's primary focuses, and as such it offers much
more. OpenBSD's firewalling and routing support is miles ahead of FreeBSDs.
FreeBSD isn't the best at everything, just as no other OS is.

OpenBSD wrote the best BGP daemon around, the best firewall around, both of
which integrate nicely together and with routing domains to allow perfectly
fine-grained control of complex routing scenarios, created CARP for address
redundancy ala VRRP but sans patent mines, had the very first IPSec
implementation, etc, etc, etc. OpenBSD is used almost exclusively for routers,
firewalls, VPN gateways, etc. You shouldn't take it as a personal insult that
it excels in those roles.

~~~
cperciva
"I'll bite" == "I'll take the bait".

I agree that OpenBSD has written some nice code, but it's hardly "miles ahead"
of FreeBSD considering that FreeBSD includes pf and carp in the base system
and openbgpd in the ports tree. The great thing about the BSD license is that
when one project does some great work, everybody else catches up quickly. :-)

And I don't take it as a "personal insult" -- I'm just amused by your comment
given that FreeBSD's network stack has _vastly_ superior performance and
support for far more 10GbE interfaces.

~~~
SomeOtherGuy
>"I'll bite" == "I'll take the bait".

Which indicates that your mentality is "anyone who says anything is better
than freebsd for any purpose must be trolling". That sort of rabid fanboyism
doesn't make for productive conversation.

FreeBSD includes a very old, partial port of PF. Even CARP which is very
simple is missing functionality in FreeBSD. And as I already mentioned, bgpd
is fully integrated with PF and routing domains in openbsd, it isn't in free
(which doesn't have routing domains).

>I'm just amused by your comment given that FreeBSD's network stack has vastly
superior performance and support for far more 10GbE interfaces.

Did you have some data to support that claim? I've seen no such benchmarks,
and the only 10gbe driver freebsd has that net/open haven't pulled in that you
can actually purchase hardware for is broadcom, which is broken and can't even
do 1gb in reality. All 4 BSDs pull in hardware drivers from each other all the
time. The great thing about the BSD license is that when one project does some
great work, everybody else catches up quickly. :-)

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rwboyer
I am a BSD fan - a big one in fact as I have been using BSD since the late
80's. I use AWS for some things where the pricing/instance sizes are a good
match for the app needs.

I don't keep up with the latest greatest Xen infrastructure in use by Amazon
but...

Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to get NetBSD running as it has PV support for
Xen3? vs using a windows HVM?

RB

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cperciva
I've talked to NetBSD people about EC2 a bit, but I don't know their current
status. IIRC at one point they were limited by a lack of SMP support in their
Xen-PV code, but I don't know if that's still the case.

~~~
rwboyer
I have a couple of boxes at home right now running NetBSD as dom0 w/xen3 and
linux/freebsd/netbsd running as PV guests if I get a chance I will move them
to some more modern HW and see what happens with NetBSD and multiple cores...
Think one of them is a dual core right now but gotta check...

In any case NetBSD PV Kern on a small AWS might be a great combo for cheap BSD
thrills....

RB

