
Limit Internet access until your child makes progress on educational sites - j_s
https://dnslearning.org/
======
aneutron
As a kid who actually used to boot from linux, delete the "internet security
product" from program files, and then happily access the internet, I think
it's a great idea, to train your kids to always find solutions.

~~~
FussyZeus
When I was in school I found that the content blocking only monitored the
actual page you were visiting, so if you wanted to go to albinoblacksheep.com
or whatever, you just wrote an HTML page with an iframe inside and it would
work fine.

Memories...

~~~
amag
When I was in school Internet wasn't a thing yet.

However, me and some friends "hacked" the program that blocked virtually
everything interesting unless you had the password on our school computers.
The first thing we did was boot up in DOS. There we found the secret password
file for the blocking program. Alas, when we tried the password it didn't
work. It must be encrypted! So we went back into DOS and renamed the password
file. When we booted up Windows again the program thought it was running for
the very first time and asked us to enter a password. We entered "AAAAAA" and
exited into DOS again. The new password file now contained the "encrypted"
password: "GGGGGG". Hmm, there's a pattern here... We then restored the old
password file _and_ "decrypted" the original password. From that point on we
had full access to any system! Those were the days!

------
l1feh4ck
Thinking on the kid's side. I personally don't want to be a kid who is forced
to learn something which I have no interest in. Especially to get access to
the internet on my free time to do/learn something that interests me.

Reinforced learning will give results, but better results can be obtained if
the `desire` to learn is developed from within.

~~~
r_singh
I honestly think the desire to learn something is not something that exists
inside us, but rather develops based on how we are appreciated the first few
times we try to learn something.

Can't fathom how kids can be interested or not in things they have no
experience with.

~~~
l1feh4ck
I disagree. The desire to learn is always within us it is the very nature of
human being.

It is very observable among kids. They try to learn everything by observing
around them. Limiting the window to which they can learn is what the
conventional school system has implemented through ages.

I cannot find the point in forcing a kid to learn math when he is clearly
interested in music or art. At best he will become a bad mathematician. Where
he could have become a great musician. The idea of forcefully planting
interest of something inside a young mind is terrible.

Instead, give him the freedom to choose. Give his both math and art. Let him
choose what he likes.

And please don't give a reward if he chooses math over music.

~~~
j_s
There are multiple educational sites supported by this tool, but indeed they
are focused on math just because that is the most common. Can you recommend
any sites or apps teaching the subjects you warned might be left out?

------
dandare
On a tangential note: I am still waiting for a philanthropic billionaire to
create (sponsor) the ultimate learning digital world for kids of all ages (in
200+ languages please) aka Ready Player One.

There are already some high-quality learning apps (reading and counting) for
kids but the best ones are paid and they usually cover only a narrow segment
in a narrow subject.

I wonder if the "authorities of Effective Altruism" would agree with me that
this is a good way to spend charity money.

~~~
j-pb
Please only in one language but with a really good course for that language as
the first material.

English would be nice, but I would also accept lojban or hawaiian.

~~~
patrickdavey
I'm really curious as to why you'd only want our mythical billionaire to build
it just in one language?

~~~
j-pb
Computer science is an amazing field to work in because we all communicate and
collaborate in english, it makes large scale global project efforts possible.

I would like to see that hurdle removed from other disciplines.

Same goes for international politics and peace, your neighbour becomes a lot
less threatening if you speak the same language.

German is my mother tounge but after living in the netherlands for 4 years, I
consider english my primary language, its what I write my grocery lists and
diary entries in. I think the world would be a much better place if we all
spoke the same language.

Also f __* unicode. That unmaintainable mess of a standard. ASCII4ever!

~~~
patrickdavey
See... I'm a native English speaker, and while a lot of things would be easier
if we all spoke the same language, I think the world would be a poorer place
because of it. There's so much more to language than just the words - it seems
to alter the way you think too.

My partner is Dutch, and I love that there are words like "papegaaiduiker" the
word for puffin. Translates as "parrot diver". I think it'd be totally sad if
things like that died out. I suspect if our mythical system existed, it would
quickly make English the only language about.

With you on ASCII ;)

------
mas886
I don't think it's a good idea, "well used" (and setting what is or what is
not a good use on the application of this might be kind of hard) can be an
incentive for the childs, but, an overuse of this/using it as an obligation
might cause the counter effect of associating learning with obligation and
with that, the contempt towards learning, or having it as something negative
that hinders what child want to get.

------
positivecomment
".org" domain suggests (to me, at least) that this is a free service, however,
it won't stay free.

There is no information about how it works, let alone some technical aspects -
interesting, especially considering the name. About link doesn't work as well.

~~~
krisives
We are a registered non-profit but yes we have to keep our monetization
options open.

I will fix the About link.

We are a small team and marketing isn't our forte so any feedback or
suggestions are appreciated.

------
scalablenotions
I hope nobody will try to use this as a substitute for supervision with
regards to children accessing the internet. Not that many parents seem to
think supervision is necessary for children accessing the internet, which
never fails to floor me.

~~~
krisives
For what it's worth we block many bad domains and soon will be forcing YouTube
into restricted mode (by always resolving to restricted.youtube.com CNAME
records)

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Timothycquinn
I have to admit I thought this app design through before and think it's a
great idea. I have wished to see an app like this and have tried other nanny
style apps but found that they eventually break and can be bypassed.

My question to the developers is are you using undocumented APIs for core
functionality and what is being done to ensure that future android updates
don't kill core functions that make the system work.

~~~
j_s
To the best of my knowledge, the bulk of the restrictions are implemented by
pointing devices to a custom DNS server (a VPN can accomplish much the same
but I don't know if this product implements that). The majority of the app is
the user interface for the reporting/status capabilities. You can read a bit
more about the implementation on the HN discussion where I discovered this
tool:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14913547](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14913547)

> utefan001: _After 30 min, DNS no longer works for entertainment sites. [...]
> It takes her 5 to 7 mins to earn points. My server detects points and re
> enables DNS replies for YouTube_

The somewhat similar Circle product is sold as a device that resides on the
local network and accomplishes its configuration using ARP poisoning.

------
drallison
I wish there were some experimental evidence that this approach is effective.
Would some parental attention and tutoring have the same effect as the
"educational sites"?

~~~
varjag
Speaking as a parent to now teenager.

Fact is just like their parents, kids are tremendously connected these days,
so there's a massive networking effect in the cohort. There's much less
outdoor/social activities among kids than there were couple decades ago,
simply because there's noone playing outside. Yes we can argue that no screen
can replace human interaction fully but it does replace quite a bit of it.

We often hear this parents not doing their jobs sentiment over and over,
either from people who have no kids or had them prior to smartphone era. Do
you often find yourself spending a whole evening with a laptop or tablet?
Checking facebook on your phone compulsively? Well same thing with kids. Sure
I could just seize my son's devices, but then what? Push him out to the empty
street? Try to be his playmate until he's 18? Because it's not just your kid,
the whole social interaction fabric went the way of Great Barrier Reef.

Sure no technology can substitute parenting; most parents we know do the
expected job of taking the kids for activities, courses, helping with homework
etc. But you can't (and shouldn't) hover over your kids all the time. If this
project can convert any of the social media/gaming time to at least something
useful, it is priceless.

------
krisives
Hi guys I'm a developer on this project if you have any questions or notice
something that could be improved please tell me here or kris@dnslearning.org

Thank you all!

~~~
throwawayReply
Hi,

I don't see a privacy policy or other page which makes it clear what
information you collect and how that information is stored.

How is session management handled from the point of view of administering the
service, how does the service track users and for how long is that information
stored?

~~~
j_s
I would appreciate hearing more about what it would take to satisfy your
privacy concerns. DNS providers do gain a 99.9%+ complete overview (and VPN
providers get complete metadata) into the browsing habits of their users, and
it is more than reasonable to request a public commitment documenting how this
information is handled.

In general there is an entire category of the majority of users who don't care
enough about their privacy, and then a second group who want to know that it's
been considered but appreciate the convenience of relying on a third party. (I
think the Signal app is good example of a tool attempting to cater to these
first two categories.)

A slightly overlapping but mostly separate third group is not going to be
satisfied by just about anything a third party claims to do (often in part due
to nation-state level considerations) and typically doesn't use off-premises
tools like this one. It is hard to justify attempting to meet the needs of
this small but vocal group of users since it reduces the level of convenience
(and thus mass-market appeal) that can be offered to the other groups.

It is, however, very much worth documenting where the line is drawn because
doing so can alleviate legitimate concerns of the privacy-conscious but busy
second group and avoid public outcry (caused by speculation/proof of
incompetence and/or indifference) being picked up by the majority of potential
users.

------
j_s
Any feedback on the website, sign-up flow, and especially the project itself
would be tremendously appreciated.

~~~
varjag
When enabling the study sites it's not immediately clear the credentials
should be for an account you create on that site. Safari just happily
autofills them with login pair to dnslearning itself. Perhaps "create account
here" link to signup pages (where possible) would be helpful.

~~~
j_s
Thanks for making time to share this opportunity for improvement.

The transition to setting up an account is indeed already quite abrupt and
your mention of auto-fill does indeed make the problem worse!

