
Microsoft calls Zoho the "Fake Office" - Zoho responds with a zinger - suprgeek
http://blogs.zoho.com/general/microsoft-calls-zoho-the-fake-office-so-does-that-mean-bing-is
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boredguy8
Why do I have to sign up to use their free document tool?

    
    
      0. http://fakeoffice.org/ -> 
      1. click "Try Zoho Now" -> 
      2. A cluttered menu of options -> 
      3. click "Zoho Docs" -> 
      4. see three purchase options & feature list -> 
      5. "Why do I need to see this? I'm not buying anything" ->
      6. click "Free 1GB space" ->
      7, 8, 9??? CREATE ZOHO ACCOUNT!
    

I want to try your product. Stop making it hard for me to do so.

Seriously, that makes sense if I want to "save" the document I'm going to play
with, but I don't understand why I need to sign up for an account to see if I
can insert a table into a document and then set different backgrounds for
different table elements.

Nor do I understand why there are so many steps between clicking 'try now' and
actually being able to 'try now'! If I click "save" I can understand.
Theoretically I'd like to be able to open a document too, without having to
register, but I understand limiting that to one or two.

The reality is, I already have Office installed. If you want me to try your
alternative, you should have barriers as low as possible. I even picked
Documents, instead of, say, CRM, because I -knew- I'd be able to test a
document without signing up. I was wrong.

~~~
potatolicious
Agreed. You already sold me on the product - I want to give it a test drive...
so why are you hitting me with a wall of text for your gigantic, confusing
list of different products? I'm a test driver, not a power user, guide me
through this.

~~~
boredguy8
YES! I would LOVE to see the 'layout' of the account page applied to the
landing page where they have all their products, but focus on three:

    
    
      Letters (Word / Pages)
      Spreadsheet (Excel / Numbers)
      [ROTATE] - [A/B testing, good data]
    

If I click on any of those three, I should go straight to the application.

~~~
rajuvegesna
Thank you for your feedback. We put together our current page in a rush. We
are working on improving it. There are some very good suggestions here. We
will roll out an updated page today. For this site, we will focus on just the
three apps and make the signup process easy.

~~~
boredguy8
I don't want videos, I don't want sheets or screenshots or anything at all
like that. I want to _use_ your _product_ which is supposed to replace Word.

There shouldn't be an 'easy' signup process, there should be _no_ signup
process to use it. It's already easy - I could have entered my google info
(apparently) if I wanted to. I don't want to link my google account to yet
another service.

Make me sign up if I want to save something that I made. _THEN_ you know I'm
interested enough in your product to overcome the hurdle.

The best analogy I can think of: right now you've got window shoppers that see
interesting things inside. But you have someone standing at the door asking
them to put their name on a sheet of paper before they come in the store, 'So
we can better serve you.' How many people are likely to walk in the store? Of
course SOME will, but a lot wont.

And my point with the "random third" is that it becomes a great way to figure
out what the market is looking for. If you put up, say, CRM, and get 30%
clickthrough, and you put up, say, discussions, and get 1% clickthrough,
that's valuable data.

A small usability nit: someone else (odd) linked a 'try it' page. Since you're
capturing right-click, any misspelling that my browser detects can't be auto-
corrected since your right click menu doesn't have spell checking.

Oops.

~~~
rajuvegesna
We are looking into adding an option to directly use the apps without having
to sign-in. These will be available @ fakeoffice.org.

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potatolicious
I think MS just made a booboo. I've never heard of Zoho before today, and
because of their boneheaded comment now I have! And I've tried their
competitor's product to boot.

Given MS's track record in recent years, I think they really need to stop
trash talking other people - more often than not they end up eating their
words.

~~~
billybob
Yeah, here's an amusing trash talking example:

Nov 2007: 'Ballmer Calls Android a "Press Release"'
<http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/08/1326234> 'Right now they
have a press release, we have many, many millions of customers, great
software, many hardware devices and they're welcome in our world,' [Ballmer]
added."

Oct. 2009: "Big Cellphone Makers Shifting to Android System"
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/technology/26android.html> 'But now that
smartphones are popular, Microsoft’s operating system, Windows Mobile, is
foundering. More cellphone makers are turning to the free Android operating
system made by Microsoft’s latest nemesis, Google.'

With a history like that, I take every example of trash talking by Ballmer to
mean "yikes! those guys are going to kick our butts."

~~~
CamperBob
And don't forget <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo> .

Why Ballmer is still employed at any Fortune 500 company, much less running
one, is a problem worthy of serious academic study.

~~~
hop
Microsoft has an incompetent board of directors way to friendly to the CEO.

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cpr
The real problem with Zoho and Google Docs and all the in-browser editors is
that their actual "word processing" features are quite weak, and nothing like
a replacement for a desktop suite (which MS Live Office is at least close to
being.)

Another comment in this discussion admitted of that in passing, pointing out
their real strengths are in sharing, etc., but MS's Live Office is also very
strong in sharing. In fact, in simultaneous editing, it surpasses even Google
Docs.

(You can try out the Live Office at
[http://skydrive.live.com/acceptpreview.aspx/.documents?aobrp...](http://skydrive.live.com/acceptpreview.aspx/.documents?aobrp=browse)
or at least you could a couple of weeks ago; don't know if they're accepting
new previewers.)

I don't mean to bash Google or Zoho and praise MS, but this is a serious
issue.

Will anyone step up to the plate with a serious browser-based document editor?
Perhaps none of the solutions that rely on the in-browser editing will ever be
any good. I've been tempted to write something more serious with Cappucino,
but that's a pretty high hill to climb...

~~~
citizenparker
I wish someone would hire the people the team behind Pixlr to create an
Office-replacement. Pixlr is the first (and to date, only) web application
that has truly felt like working on a native, desktop application to me.

I think if someone were to adopt the Pixlr model and create a lightweight
Flash-based solution to this, I think they would have the flexibility to
create an experience as rich as Office, and start stealing customers.

However, I'm more and more impressed with the Cappucino apps I'm seeing, so
there are clearly many possible solutions to this problem.

~~~
cpr
It seems that Cappucino will provide the same quality of experience as Flash,
while avoiding the serious downsides of the latter (mostly proprietary
technology lock-in, but also just general misbehavior compared to platform
apps, as Francisco points out so well.).

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pchristensen
When will big boys learn _not to punch down_? The little guy can always
benefit from picking a fight with the 800lb gorilla, but MSFT has nothing to
gain from even acknowledging in their public statements that Zoho exists. Now
they've just told everyone listening to them that competitors exist and
they're worried enough to discount them.

~~~
jimbokun
Bill Gates used to always say that the biggest competitors to Microsoft
products were the previous versions. Which, in addition to giving him a way to
not talk about the competition, had the added benefit of being mostly true.

I wonder if Ballmer is familiar with the way Gates handled this kind of thing.
Maybe someone should introduce them.

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txxxxd
Nice guerrilla marketing: <http://fakeoffice.org/>

~~~
jamesbressi
Zoho, are you listening?

I think that landing page needs to change. I mean my comments in the most
constructive way and I want to see competition and companies like Zoho
compete.

The marketing copy on the landing page right now sounds a tad defensive and
like they are trying to prove something. They have NOTHING to prove, because
just like they say, "you have most of the familiar functionality found in
Microsoft Office, ... other things Microsoft Office doesn't offer, like the
ability to easily share and edit documents online... use it for free."

You NEED to make an acronym out of "FAKE Office"... I can't think of one right
now, but even Free Ass Kickingly Effective Office would be a start ;)

Run an entire campaign on this like a politician, seriously.

First, the top banner needs to be changed, because the emphasis needs to be
more positive "Zoho the Free Ass Kickingly Effective Office that Microsoft
doesn't want you to try" (with the f,a,k,e, emphasized some how).

ALSO, you can take Microsoft's quote out of context: They said "we're not
seeing any inclination that Zoho or Google or Zimbra or any other of those
offering fake Office capabilities can replace [Microsoft Office]," he [Ron
Markezich, corporate VP of Microsoft Online] said.

So in the copy, quote them! Microsoft's VP of Microsoft Online said "FAKE
Office capabilities can replace [Microsoft Office]."

Make a comparison chart with Office that matches check for check what Zoho
offers and then the one-sided Zoho checks for FREE and the ability to share
and edit online.

Remove your line of "you have most of the familiar functionality of Microsoft
Office".

This is just a start and I would be more than happy to pitch in and help and
I'm sure the rest of the community wouldn't mind lending a hand too ;)

~~~
rajuvegesna
Very good points James. Yes, we do plan to improve it. This is just an initial
page we put together at the last minute. We are improving it as we speak.
Comparison charts, easy-signup, funny cartoons etc are coming including
videos...like this one...REAL happy customers using FAKE Office
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO4I3p7DYuk>

~~~
jamesbressi
Brilliant! All my best to you and amazing response time... you really keep
your ear to the internets, don't you? ha.

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jurjenh
Just signed in with my google apps account - a very nice touch. Then I tried
Writer, and got the following message at the top of the page in a nice red
message box:

    
    
      Zoho Writer is not supported yet in Chrome
      Please switch to IE 6.0+ or Firefox 2.0+ version for better experience.
    

So integration with Google goes as far as using their sign-on system - but not
their browser. For what it's worth though, it seems to work OK in Chrome...

~~~
cakesy
These things don't magically happen, and they take time. Time you could spend
on adding features, or in including more browser options for users.

I am not sure why I feel the need to explain this, and not on this website.

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ErrantX
Zoho is something of a non-competitor anyway. Their product is ok; but only
just. (EDIT: this is my opinion obviously. I tried them for a few months along
with Zimbra and Google and settled on Google in the end.)

I think their main focus is on some of the other apps rather than word
processing / spreadsheets.

Will this give them some publicity: yes.

Will it make them a player? Unlikely.

This is smart MS moves against Google (as someone else already pointed out)

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jsz0
I think Microsoft is right for once. I'm very disappointed in Google Docs and
Zoho is only slightly more useful to me. If MS Office Online is on par with
say Office 2000's feature set it will be way ahead of its online competition
and have a huge competitive advantage tying into a fully functional desktop
application.

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maweaver
I like the fakeoffice.org idea, but purposefully taking the quote out of
context and turning

"we're not seeing any inclination that Zoho or Google or Zimbra or any other
of those offering fake Office capabilities can replace [Microsoft Office],"

into

"Zoho... fake Office capabilities can replace Microsoft Office"

is a little dishonest, IMO.

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qeorge
Zoho's response is cagy, but a bit off base. Zoho Sheet looks and feels a LOT
like Excel (I haven't used the other Zoho products). I'd actually say "fake
office" is pretty accurate (and a compliment).

------
budwin
Definitely unprofessional for both companies involved :-/. Zoho could have
taken the high ground here, but instead just sank to the same kind petty name
calling.

------
lssndrdn
i don't mean to be trolling in the general MS-bashing mood, but this is
consistent with a lot of, let's say, grey-area marketing they have done in the
past (see internet explorer).

And, you can call bing the fake google, but not "fake search".

Having said that, best of luck to Zoho.

~~~
techiferous
<http://www.fakesearch.com>

------
motters
Them's fightin' words!

------
thras
The comment from a Microsoft VP says "we're not seeing any inclination that
Zoho or Google or Zimbra or any other of those offering fake Office
capabilities can replace [Microsoft Office]."

Given that he's spot-on right, I'm not sure what the big deal is. The online
office apps don't even compete favorably with OpenOffice, much less Microsoft
Office.

On the other hand, Microsoft's Office Live offering isn't going anywhere as
far as I can tell. They don't understand the importance of simple.

~~~
billybob
"The online office apps don't even compete favorably with OpenOffice, much
less Microsoft Office."

What MS Office does well, these online apps do passably at best.

But what the online apps do well, MS Office doesn't do at all. Like getting
the same documents from anywhere you are, collaborating with people, making
things publicly viewable with a click, and building a web survey that feeds
right into your private spreadsheet.

The online apps just need polish to compete with MS Office. Office has to
completely transform and go online to compete with them.

And guess what? If it does that, it has to play catchup with them, both in
making things work in the browser, and in mindshare.

~~~
Silhouette
> What MS Office does well, these online apps do passably at best. But what
> the online apps do well, MS Office doesn't do at all.

Microsoft Office is, arguably, the most successful software line in history.
It has remained so despite all the naysayers, despite numerous free
replacements with at least respectable basic functionality, despite its
relative lack of improvement in features and/or usability in recent years, and
despite the fact that the technologies to do all these on-line alternatives
have been viable for several years now. Perhaps this tells us something about
how much the competitive "advantages" of all these other products are actually
worth.

> Like getting the same documents from anywhere you are

I had this really cool idea for that once. I called it a "file server".

> collaborating with people

I had this really cool idea for that once. I called it a "file server". (Or
did you mean in real time? Because I haven't seen even a prototype for that so
far that would be useful in practice.)

> making things publicly viewable with a click

I had this really cool idea for that once. I called it a "web server".

> building a web survey that feeds right into your private spreadsheet

I didn't have any cool ideas about that one, but about a million other people
did, and they all made simple web sites to do it much better than any of the
on-line office suites I've seen so far.

> The online apps just need polish to compete with MS Office.

Sure. And so do Notepad and Calc.

Sorry for the cynicism, but I think you are _vastly_ overestimating the
significance of these products in the market and their future potential. Even
if the idea of an on-line office suite has merit -- and the jury is still very
much out on that one -- the execution of the toys available so far isn't even
on the same scale as products like MS Office, or various other respectable
desktop applications.

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jamesbressi
+1 for you Zoho!

