
We Broke the Panama Papers Story. Our Next Mission: Donald Trump - rishabhd
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/panama-papers-media-investigation-next-donald-trump-hold-accountable
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dubhrosa
How about they start adhering to the practices that made journalism a
cornerstone of functioning democracies for so long? Such as reporting all the
facts critically, and not approaching each story from the same, tired left-
wing liberal agenda. (I say this as a left wing liberal). The guardian and
most of the left leaning media was asleep when the DNC steamrolled HTC
through. They were asleep to the possibility of a Trump candidacy and
presidency, and fell into his trap by giving virtually unlimited media
coverage; we may be in a post truth world but we are more certainly in a world
in which there really is no such thing as bad publicity. They refused to pay
attention to the facts of the Brexit polls. So I don't have much sympathy for
their appeal.

~~~
Arnt
That story was written by Frederik Obermaier and Bastian Obermayer and
includes the phrase "our newspaper, the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung".
I read the SZ (on paper) and in my judgment the SZ does well on the points you
mention.

But I bet you still don't have much sympathy for their appeal. It's always
possible to find a fault.

~~~
1337biz
Op seems to be right when even Wikipedia points out the liberal / left bias of
the paper.

 _" The editorial stance of the newspaper is liberal and generally of centre-
left,..."_
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCddeutsche_Zeitung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCddeutsche_Zeitung)

~~~
ginko
"liberal" in this case is in the European sense of the word. What Americans
would call libertarian.

~~~
icu
Hello ginko I respectfully disagree with your statement. European Liberalism
is not equivalent to American Libertarianism.

Granted there is some overlap, but the parts that do not overlap make all the
difference.

With regards to the overlap, both political philosophies support individual
liberties and limited government. However European Liberalism usually
encompasses the belief that government should act to alleviate poverty and
other social problems whereas American Libertarianism usually focuses more on
personal responsibility to alleviate poverty and other social problems.

What I mean by this is that, from an American Libertarianism point of view,
one would tend to:

* Take responsibility to get themselves out of poverty and other social problems

* Reject the notion that they should be taxed (and therefore be involuntarily forced) to alleviate poverty and other social problems of others, and

* Reject welfare from the state because it was taken from others involuntarily.

Generally from an American Libertarianism point of view, should you wish to
alleviate poverty and other social problems of others, it must be done
voluntarily through charity because to do otherwise would be to trespass on
personal freedom of others.

This is very different to European Liberalism which accepts the concept that
everyone in society should be taxed to alleviate poverty and other social
problems in society.

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fredsanford
Why didn't they hold Obama accountable? Or the Bushes, maybe Hillary for
Benghazi? I don't remember all of this hand-wringing and crying back then.

~~~
gbil
I believe the main topic here is how the journalists are being treated by
Trump and his administration.

~~~
Chris2048
Like how he didn't invite them to lunch?

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B1FF_PSUVM
What exactly came out of the Panama Papers story?

All I recall is a lot of noise, and some shaming of second and third ranking
individuals, if that.

Basically, some servants being put in their place. Not for them to do (half-
assed with corner shops) what the owners do much better with first class
service.

~~~
aukaost
Iceland's PM stepped down and a while after there were new elections.

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chillaxtian
> The highest level of collaboration – which is what these times require –
> would be special joint projects. A possible first project could be to look
> into his international business ties, and those of his billionaire cabinet,
> to find all of their conflicts of interest.

> Donald Trump alone has his hands in hundreds of companies, so it is
> impossible for one news outlet alone to investigate this properly. But it is
> not impossible if there’s a collaborative investigation.

> Another project could be to investigate his ties to Russia and his past with
> Russia, which also is very promising, even if you don’t believe a single
> word of the Trump dossier Buzzfeed made public. Unknown conflicts of
> interests in both fields can turn out to be a huge danger to the national
> security of the US.

> Collaboration could even mean working with foreign news outlets in different
> countries, whose reporters certainly might have more knowledge of Trump’s
> respective business partners than a US-based journalist.

this sounds more like a targeted smear campaign than journalism.

~~~
Chris2048
Isn't an investigation supposed to hold judgment until it completes?

It's clear that the whole point of this investigation is to find dirt on
Trump, rather than investigate any one specific issue.

------
dingo_bat
Is the "no politics on HN" rule dead?

~~~
akjainaj
There never was such a rule.

I bet dang feels stupid for doing that experiment, it looks like the "hn is
no-politics zone" meme will stay around for years.

~~~
DanBC
It's a shame a bunch of pathological arseholes ruined it. It was a good idea.

You're wrong about "there never was such a rule" too.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13463480](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13463480)

> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics

~~~
Chris2048
It wasn't a good idea. 'political' wasn't concretely defined, and so the ban
just made it easier to flag any topic you don't like by way of a shifting
definition of the word.

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kelvin0
"Another project could be to investigate his ties to Russia and his past with
Russia"

OK, I'm a big fan of investigative journalism but this just seems to be a red
herring, kinda like the allegations that where made about Obama's Birth
Certificate.

So what if he had dealings with Russia, or Putin? Some agencies have had
'secret' dealings with much shadier characters then Putin in the past(puppets
such as Pinochet, Noriega, Saddam ...). This just seems like a waste of time,
punching at a smoke screen.

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gibbitz
If there really is a disgust for his treatment of the press. I think the press
could start by ignoring his twitter feed and "alternative fact" stories. His
strategy is to make us distrust our information sources and the "media" is
playing into it directly. It would be best for all involved if the press began
reporting on facts and not comparing them to the rubbish he and his
administration says. Especially when they are about things that are seemingly
important to only Trump (inauguration turnout, who's a loser, etc.). At this
point I would go as far as to say that any coverage of press conferences would
be best to just provide direct full quotation with hyperlinks to other direct
quotations or measurable facts from trustable sources that are contradictory.
The only way to fight back is to take the higher ground. If he treats the
press the way he does now, the best strategy is for the press core to END the
press conference by ceasing questions and leaving. If all he's going to do is
avoid, insult and lie then there's no news, he's been doing all of that since
long before he ever thought of running for president.

