
Why do we keep using Facebook? - imartin2k
https://hackernoon.com/why-do-we-keep-using-facebook-ee59ded4602d
======
ljamf
Full disclosure up front: i work for a company which sells ads based on user
behavior.

I get that it's creepy, "spying" on users, but really, would you rather have
ads from services which know nothing about you? Companies want to buy ads that
users are interested in, obviously. If I have a company selling vegan food i
would optimally only buy ads shown to people who are already vegan, right? And
they probably don't want ads from your local butcher, but might be interested
in my new awesome vegan food.

Again, i get that it's creepy, especially on Facebooks scale, but I feel the
discussion gets lopsided sometimes. I don't use Facebook much, but I'm fine
with that my browser behavior is tracked.

~~~
heroprotagonist
> would you rather have ads from services which know nothing about you?

Yes, absolutely. Advertisements are not something I seek out. In fact, I do my
best to minimize any exposure to them. If they know about me, they are more
effective.

I understand that I am not immune to the ability of advertising and marketing
to influence behavior. I'd rather start a purchasing decision with zero
information than from a biased position because of brand familiarity or other
psychological tricks.

If you consider advertising to be the commercial implementation of
psychological tactics designed to manipulate your behavior based on decades of
data and research, why _would_ you want to provide advertisers with greater
ability to manipulate you?

If it's just "show vegan ads to vegan people" why is advertising such a
cornerstone of modern infrastructure? I trust the big advertising networks
less than a sleazy used-car salesman.

~~~
kthejoker2
Advertising is part of the modern infrastructure because almost every service
charges zero dollars for use. So you're asking the wrong question: why won't
people pay for social networks?

~~~
heroprotagonist
That's a non-starter. There hasn't been a large social network with an ad-
free, analytics-free option you could pay for.

------
Kluny
Based on the other comments so far, it sounds like HN'ers mostly don't use
facebook and don't miss it. Fair enough, but I'm in the same camp as the
article's author, and looking for a way out. I might be unique, but I didn't
really have much of a social life before facebook. That's not causal
relationship - before 2007ish I was a very introverted kid who didn't know how
to make friends or form strong relationships. All of my good friendships came
into existence after about 2009, when I started to learn how to socialize
better, and for the most part, facebook is my main contact point with all
those people. That's only because facbook was the dominant communication
method during that time. But there it is, and I'm stuck with it, and I can't
seem to get unstuck. I want to hear about the new babies, jobs, city moves,
projects, and parties that people have going on, and facebook is the best way
to get that info. But 90% of what you get there is political garbage,
pointless memes, MLMs, and facebook's own "manufactured content". It's
frustrating and it's making me unhappy too.

~~~
henrikschroder
> Based on the other comments so far, it sounds like HN'ers mostly don't use
> facebook and don't miss it.

Let's just say that the "sour grapes" crowd are much more likely to pile on to
stories like this.

Facebook provides me and my friends with immense value, I'm a very happy user,
and as long as that value is higher than the annoyances of using Facebook, we
will keep using it.

The reality is that Facebook's DAU numbers and engagement metrics just keep on
rising. A bunch of disillusioned users on this forum is not a negative trend.
Facebook's biggest enemy is themselves, because the corporate machine
pressures everyone there into change for change's sake, which fuels user
fatigue, which in the end will lead to some sort of exodus.

~~~
tpeo
It's not like having and using Facebook is necessarily unfeasible for people
who aren't crazy about it, which makes that a bad metaphor. Having a case of
"sour grapes" over Facebook makes as much sense as having a case of "sour
grapes" over pie. Just go out and buy some if you want. But what makes it a
_really_ bad metaphor is that the likelihood of someone using Facebook or not
on a daily basis depends on how much value they attach to it. But why would
anyone resent others for doing stuff that they don't care about?

Now, if you think Facebook provides with you with something of value, good for
you. You're using a service and you're happy about it. But that says nothing
about the preferences of others.

~~~
henrikschroder
> But that says nothing about the preferences of others.

That was exactly my point. OP claimed that it seemed like people on HN weren't
using it based on the comments to this thread so far.

I'm claiming the opposite, that a majority of HN users are also relatively
happy Facebook users, but that those users won't comment on threads like this.
Because these threads always attracts the contrarians and turn into a pissing
contest about who deleted their FB account first.

------
tpeo
How much does the average user actually use Facebook, specially nowadays?

I'd be rather surprised if the total amount of time spent on Facebook didn't
have something like a power-law distribution. The only reason I have an
account at all is so that, in the unlikely event that I might be notified of
something that I actually care about or that someone might try to reach me,
I'll know it. And I'm sure that is true of at least a portion of other users.

Having Facebook today is like having a landline seven years ago. I wonder if
in seven years Facebook will only be used for marketing, too.

~~~
speedplane
Zuckerberg and Facebook are smart. They know FB isn't for everyone, that's why
they have Instagram and whatsapp.

------
speedplane
Facebook says that 5.5%-11% of accounts are "fake". I'd guess the number is
higher. There is so much spam, fake friend requests, and general internet
hucksters on FB, that I've lost trust in the platform.

Real-life people send me friend requests a few times a week, but I easily get
5-10 spammer friend requests a day. I don't know if stuff I'm reading is (1)
just there; (2) put there due to an algorithm trying to cater to my tastes;
(3) inserted by spammers; or (4) paid for by god-knows-who.

Every time I log into FB, I feel like I'm stepping into a room with people I
sort of recognize but don't know. On the internet, I rather make conversation
with true strangers on Hacker News than these quasi-strangers on FB.

~~~
jamesrcole
I don't know what the average person's FB experience is like, but yours sounds
very different to mine. I rarely get fake friend requests.

~~~
speedplane
Not sure what I'm doing, I got 6 requests in the past 2 days. As far as I can
tell, all but one are fakes. Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's a fake or a
person who I met only briefly.

------
rsaarelm
I stopped logging to Facebook years ago. I also haven't had much any
interesting long-form online discussions in years and I miss them. Several
people I know say Facebook comment threads and a curated friend group are just
the sweet spot for them now. Still not going to log into Facebook, but I think
there's an axis where my life is worse for that.

------
srge
It's been 2 years that I have deleted both my FB accounts (one for family and
friends, the other for business), my IG account and my Twitter account. All
accounts had many years of activity and substantial following. I never looked
back and I am very much happier.

What made me decide is that I realized that I had become an self inflicted
obligation to create content to feed my online personas every days. Basically
I was doing things in my real life that I did not want to do just to feed a
virtual person's life (mine) on other people's websites to impress my friends
and contacts. This is insane.

~~~
jamesrcole
I've heard other people make the same point, and I don't understand it. Why
did you feel obligated to create content? A lot of the time I've used it, I've
personally been happy just seeing what other people have posted.

~~~
kelnos
I've slowed down a lot lately in my posts to FB and IG. I think the turning
point for me was when I saw a friend at a party (someone I don't see often and
don't have much of a one-on-one relationship with), and she told me something
to the effect of "I decide where to eat based on the photos you post on IG".
I'm sure she was exaggerating, and certainly didn't mean to imply any sort of
obligation on my part, but it hit me... why am I posting all this stuff?

I've never had any burning desire to be some sort of "online influencer", so
what was I really doing? Either I'm bragging about all the cool places I've
been to (which I think would be pretty lame of me), or I'm in effect
advertising for the restaurants I visit (which isn't too objectionable, but
certainly isn't my job). If I were posting things for artistic or comedic
value that I wanted to share, or posting actual photos that illustrated what's
going on in my life, I'd feel better about it.

So I post less.

And as for FB, my feed is overloaded with politics and social justice posts.
Both of which are important, but it gets to be too much, very quickly. And
it's not what I want to use FB for -- I have news aggregators for those sorts
of things. I used to have pinned tabs in Firefox open for FB and Twitter, but
upon closing them a couple months ago I find I'm much happier. I can still
manually navigate to FB when I need to, and I still have the mobile app, but I
think I'm starting to find the right level of engagement with FB that makes me
happiest and gives me the most utility.

------
westiseast
The blog poster seems to be missing the critical point - maybe he's never
smoked. It's an addiction.

To your phone, to social response, to 'new'. The way way to give up is to
treat it like an addiction.

~~~
hellofunk
Actually, I would say that you were missing the critical point that he is
making in the article. It's not an addiction in this case, I also would like
to get off Facebook, and I am certainly not addicted to it since I check in on
it maybe once a month. But I stay for the same reason the author does, which
is that everyone I know is on there, and I don't have an easy way to stay in
touch with them otherwise.

------
noncoml
I haven’t used FB for years, I don’t even have an account, and don’t miss it
at all.

When I want to connect with my friends I use WhatsApp, for brainless time
passing I use Reddit and I use HN for stimulation and discussion.

~~~
kelnos
And that's why FB's acquisitions of Instagram and WhatsApp were so brilliant:
Zuck recognizes that he's going to inevitably lose some people from FB, so
he's diversified.

------
tim333
As a counter point to the article and most of the comments on HN, I like
Facebook don't find it makes me feel bad. I suspect that in the studies
showing a correlation between feeling bad and using Facebook the causation
goes the other way. People who don't have enough friends and social life in
the physical world both feel bad and go on Facebook as a substitute. This
would be a simpler explanation for why they have 2bn users and growing -
people like the service.

~~~
mbrock
Like in so many situations, causality is more likely to be cyclical than
linear. That's how malignant habits work: they appear to easily alleviate a
symptom, but thereby prevent actual recovery or growth.

------
synicalx
Unfortunately, FB is about the only way I can keep in contact with a lot of my
old friends since they don't use any of the alternatives and are also
scattered all over the world.

What is really creepy though, is signing up for a new account, on a new
device, using a fake name, and a different email address, and having FB
immediately start suggesting people you've know IRL for 20+ years. I get that
there's a million ways they could work out who I am, but the fact that they go
to that extent from the get-go is a more than a bit creepy.

I'm actually tempted to do a bit of an experiment next time I go overseas -
buy a brand new device, with cash, on the other side of the world and sign up
for email and then facebook using just that device and see if they can work
out who I am. I'd half expect to see someone in a FB t-shirt lurking in some
nearby bushes whispering into a mic...

------
Nothorized
Ok, I am not be the "usual" reader of Hacker News (HN). I am reading HN since
2012 for disclaimer.

So basically, Facebook (FB) is for socializing in real life. Since I am
currently in exchange, It is useful to create parties and to invite people to
them. It is also useful to talk with your friend on the other side of the
earth (more than Whatsapp), to keep up to date with them. And it is also the
best way to get into groups, to exchange ideas, or into the group of your
university.

So basically, FB is my social life. Do I like that ? No. But would i have a
social life without FB ? No. Most of the people here are seeing FB as the
devil, but it helps me to invite to parties girls I want to hang out with or
get invited to parties, and since everyone (or most of the people, more most
of the people) are looking for raising their number of friends on Facebook, it
is really useful to connect with new peoples. But, yes, I am invited to
parties without FB, but not as much.

Also, for group projects, it is the closest thing to Slack for College
students.

So as much as I hate FB, it is really useful, sadly.

~~~
speedplane
Have you tried dropping FB? Relying on old-fashioned txt message to ask your
friends whatsup?

~~~
jamesrcole
As an aside, it's funny that text messages can now be considered "old
fashioned".

------
zw123456
I removed my account a few months back (you have to request that, you can't
delete it on your own, which I think sucks). I did it because I feel that they
betrayed our democracy for profit and I do not want to support an organization
like that. And that was the feedback I gave them. I do not miss it one bit.

~~~
humanrebar
If you think companies like facebook can manipulate democracy, you have
problems with open democracy, at least information-age democracy, not facebook
in particular.

Undergirding democracy is the idea that citizens are intelligent and
trustworthy enough to deal with yellow journalism, propaganda, etc. Or, at
least, that is a downside of the least bad approach to governance so far.

~~~
kelnos
> Undergirding democracy is the idea that citizens are intelligent and
> trustworthy enough to deal with yellow journalism, propaganda, etc.

The Nov 2016 US election, and the investigations into news propagation on
sites like FB, is outright proof that citizens are in fact _not_ intelligent
enough on average to deal with this.

I'm not trying to shit on people or be flippant, but... it's not looking good.
Certainly censoring people or legislating FB into oblivion isn't the answer,
but I'm not sure what is. "Educate everyone better" seems like a catch-22 at
best, likely destined to fail.

And I don't think this is an example of a company influencing elections. FB
was pretty unwitting there. Others found creative, unintended ways to use the
platform to do their dirty work.

~~~
humanrebar
There are serious implications to that conclusion. The citizens _are_ the
watchers in a democracy. If they can't be trusted to come to reasonable
conclusions on their own, there is no other authority qualified to ensure they
are properly informed and vetted.

It is circular, to say the least, to have the government regulate how to
educate citizens about how to pick the next government.

~~~
kelnos
Yep, and that's one of the main reasons I'm finding the political climate in
the US so depressing. The answer would seem to be "marginalize people who lack
critical thinking ability", but... that's not really a solution.

------
newscracker
It seems like people becoming increasingly physically isolated and not
connecting even with neighbors makes online connections valuable. It's
pervasive and avoids moving physically. And of course, the network effect of
others being on Facebook.

~~~
Sir_Substance
>It seems like people becoming increasingly physically isolated and not
connecting even with neighbors makes online connections valuable.

This kind of thinking never held much water with me. You don't get to choose
your neighbors, the odds that they'll be compatible with you in the way that
might lead to meaningful friendships is extremely low.

None of my parents friends are former neighbors. Lots of them are former
church-goers from the various churches they've attended though. I think that
shows that you really only need one thing in common to help filter out the
majority of the population. If you like bowling, take up bowling, and I bet
you'll find quite a few people you get on with quite well. Ditto paintball,
and obviously ditto friday night drinking.

But the idea that Facebook is "ruining the connection we used to have with the
people around us" is pretty much nonsense. We never really cared that much
about the people around us, neighbors were always just acquaintances.

~~~
kelnos
Very much agreed. I've lived in the bay area for 13 years, in apartments with
at least 20 units in them (usually many more), and I have not known even one
of my neighbors. Beyond that, I have a very healthy in-person social life
filled with people I've met through other avenues. Even though you'd think
it'd be easy to do so, I just don't have much interest in meeting the other
people who live in my building.

This isn't universal, of course -- one of my good friends lives in a building
with 4 units, and he knows everyone who lives there. Diff'rent strokes, I
guess.

I wonder if knowing your neighbors is more of a suburban/rural/family thing?
When I was growing up (suburbs of NJ and later MD), we always at least knew
the people who lived on our block, even if we weren't close friends with them.

~~~
Sir_Substance
>I wonder if knowing your neighbors is more of a suburban/rural/family thing?

Mutual self-interest brings neighbors together. The further out in the sticks
you are and/or the lower income your neighborhood is, the more you get out of
a firm working understanding with your neighbors.

------
kisstheblade
What I have found that everyone uses facebook to post stuff about themselves
and voice their "important" opinions on stuff.

Nobody uses it to "connect". Or for sure maybe sometimes but surely it's not
the only way that people can connect in these days. I can connect with people
in a myriad of ways, as always, even before facebook. I have seen absolutely
no change in how "connected" I am after facebook has taken over.

Anyhow if it so important for "connecting" then how come I, without facebook,
still am very much connected with my friends and family.

~~~
herbst
> What I have found that everyone uses facebook to post stuff about themselves
> and voice their "important" opinions on stuff.

I have got the very same impression. It ended up like a huge ego driven circle
jerk. Most "communication" happens passively (likes, post emojis, passive
comments, shares). And barely anyone is even interested in provided OC.

Its a sad place these days

------
KozmoNau7
I don't know about others, but I use it primarily to keep up to date on bands
I like, and because it's a convenient way to manage an event and invite
people.

~~~
ubercow
>keep up to date on bands I like

Specifically for this use case I like Songkick [0]. Lets me know when anyone
I'm following is touring near me. Lets you import artists from Spotify too.

0: [https://www.songkick.com/home](https://www.songkick.com/home)

~~~
KozmoNau7
I used Bandsintown for the same thing for a while. But neither gives you
updates straight from the bands, about contests and other stuff that isn't
directly tour-related.

------
Xoros
I use Facebook essentially as a RSS feed for bands I like since a concert I
missed of one of my favorite band in 2007. They were playing in my town and I
wasn't aware of it. Since then they split so I'll never see them live.

So I started subscribing on my bands Facebook pages to never miss anything
again.

Also using it to comment sometimes.

------
johnchristopher
I am in a weird situation where I have to teach people about Facebook, pages
and ad campaign while I myself haven't logged (not even for a sneak peek) or
posted in a year. That thing is a cancer and one of the aspects of my job is
basically to be a Facebook evangelist.

------
rendall
In my observation, unhappiness leads to more social media use, rather than the
causal arrow going the other way. It's not that Facebook makes people unhappy,
but unhappiness that drives many people to post prolifically on Facebook.

------
NiklasMort
Unfortunately the amount of groups on Facebook is nowhere else to be found,
especially important for people who move/travel a lot. Not to mention the
majority of events & co often only is posted on FB.

~~~
herbst
I travel a lot plus mostly live in a different place than i originally grew up
with, so moved quite a few times, so have plenty remote friends.

Still i dont miss it and i never felt i should get another FB profile. Even
thought i dont had one the last 4 years.

What i am trying to say is that you most likely wont even know how irrelevant
FB is for you life as long as you hold on to it for whatever reasons.

------
omarchowdhury
At the heart of it? The need to connect with others.

(Not saying that Facebook satisfies this need, but it is a need.)

------
xupybd
Focus on friends that only share memes and Facebook makes you feel awesome

~~~
gfredtech
During my last days, I spent my time on Facebook for the memes. But I still
deleted it anyways

------
ryanb23
I don't use it a ton. I prefer Twitter.

------
Nothorized
Ok, I a

------
bukgoogle
Please people stop it. They will inject they agenda on everything.

Trying push they political agenda.

They steal your private information and sell it.

Follow, locate you with they mobole apps.

Prosecute you for liking anything, expose your information to government / CIA
officials..

Just take a moment and listen all CIA whistleblower statements..

Alex Jones have been talking about this now over 10 years and still.. there
people who just follow the mainstream liars.. quite unbelievable

Why people ? I really wonder so many times the ethos of these companies..
google, facebook, twitter .. all just same big brotherhood company ..

