
Atheism in America - cs702
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d2239780-4d4e-11e1-8741-00144feabdc0.html
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jswinghammer
I live in Boston and I'm a Christian and it's a little weird because most of
the people I meet are not interested in things of faith at all. Some people I
work with tried to guess my upbringing and guessed raised Catholic and now
never goes to church. I told them that I was raised atheist and now you'll
find me at church every Sunday. People were fairly surprised. I don't meet too
many people who go to church around here so it's rare and I understand their
reaction. They were all nice to me about it though.

All that said I think atheists run into the problem of not their behavior but
rather the behavior of "that guy". You know him. Maybe you are him. It's "that
guy who can't shut up and says insulting things about people who believe in
anything spiritual at all" But "that guy" is a pain to be around. I worked
with "that guy" once and hearing him compare my beliefs to the flying
spaghetti monster was pretty ignorant and if I valued his opinion more than I
do would have been insulting. He would repeat this week after week seemingly
escalating his rhetoric to upset me. I have long since worked out how I feel
about all this so I held my own just fine. My only point in mentioning him is
that for another person this might have been pretty annoying and upsetting.

I've run into "that guy" on multiple occasions-enough to notice who he is and
steer clear at parties and at work. The only advice I have for you is if you
are that guy or find yourself being that guy just stop. You're giving all
reasonable, just don't believe in God but don't want to hassle you non-
believers a really bad name. Though so do Sam Harris and Dawkins so maybe you
should avoid them too.

~~~
dazzla
It comes down to lack of respect for other people's opinions. As "that guy"
could have any pet subject, religion, technology, sports, politics you name
it. It's fine to be passionate about your opinions but you need to respect
other people's opinions.

~~~
giardini
And if the other fellow believes that there's a little man who perches on his
shoulder, travels with him and tells him what to do? I knew someone who had
this specific symptom - the diagnosis was "schizophrenia".

How does that differ from the fellow who believes that the Man in the Sky
tells him what to do? I knew a fellow who heard the Voice - the diagnosis was
"madness" (a diagnosis made decades ago when psychology was still in the Dark
Ages).

And how does that differ from the fellow who believes that the Man in the Sky
tells him what to do? But this time, no voice - the answer just "comes to me."

If someone believes foolishness about technology, sports or politics we're
free to enlighten them. Like a fellow who believed that he could better his
odds of winning the lottery by choosing numbers with a random-number
generator. So why should we not criticize "religious thought"? Humans believe
wrongly in every field. They should always be open to correction. There's
nothing sacred about religion.

It is impossible to respect other peoples' opinions - there are too many of
them, they conflict and they can't all be right. But you _can_ respect the
other people. I believe that is what etiquette is for. Good manners can save
the day.

~~~
jswinghammer
That's basically what I'm referring to. There is clearly a difference between
someone suffering from schizophrenia and a person who tries to hear from God.
The person I'm referring to in my post asked me how I knew I wasn't a
schizophrenic. I asked him if he thought I was and of course he did not.
That's sort of where that ended.

I mean just consider the comparison you just made. How many schizophrenics
have you heard of who can even keep their lives together without medication?
It's a very serious condition. Compare their lives to that of the average
churchgoer. It's not even debatable which you'd prefer to have.

You may have the good sense to keep those thoughts to yourself but don't be
surprised if you share that no one really thinks highly of you for it.

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hhastings
> "But Johnson is far from unique. As I found out when I travelled across the
> US last year, atheists live in isolation and secrecy all over the country."

That statement makes me sick. So horribly incorrect.

I'm tempted to guess that the author spends a lot of time around religious
groups and churches, and thus, doesn't see many atheists on a daily basis.

I, on the other hand, spend almost no time around churches, and when I traveld
across the USA 4 times in the past 3 years, I met _a lot_ of atheists - and
they definitely weren't in isolation.

~~~
jshen
It's not incorrect. Just because you and some people you met were open about
it doesn't mean that others keep it secret for various reasons.

When I was in the Army and in Bosnia I would eat in the chow tent every night.
I was a private and there was a sergeant that worked there that I would chat
with almost every night. Keep in mind that I was a private and he was a sgt,
so he had a lot of power over me. One night he asked if I was a "good
christian boy", and I said "nope, I'm an atheist". He never spoke to me again
and would give me dirty looks if we ever made eye contact.

I learned pretty quick to keep my atheism to myself in the military. I've also
learned that the same is true in many parts of this country.

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DanBC
> _“The sad truth is that in many parts of the country, if you want to join
> forces with your neighbours and do something good, and you look around for
> an organisation that will help you do that, that’s the churches.” Matt
> Elder, for example, used to go on mission trips to help build houses for
> poor people in Mexico_

This is a shame. There are other schemes, such as "shoe box gifts" which tend
to be run by churches too.

It seems there's a gap in humanitarian working for rationalist, evidence
based, atheist, projects that use best quality engineering and so on.

~~~
rockarage
I think there is a sample bias there, many parts of the country has a large
religious base so it's likely neighborhoods are filled with people of similar
beliefs. There are plenty of humanitarian work not affiliated with religion,
like Doctors without Borders, Charity Water and recently the K.I.N.D fund.

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pella
TED TALK:
[http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0...](http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0.html)

 _"What aspects of religion should atheists (respectfully) adopt? Alain de
Botton suggests a "religion for atheists" -- call it Atheism 2.0 -- that
incorporates religious forms and traditions to satisfy our human need for
connection, ritual and transcendence."_

~~~
SteveJS
Thanks for sharing this. His thoughts on treating travel as pilgrimage ring
true for my best vacations. It convinced me to add his not-yet-out book,
Religion for Atheists to my wish list.

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rokhayakebe
If you live in a small town of 1000 and you are one of the handful of
atheists, Christians, Muslims, blacks, or whatever, then of course everyone
will give you the looks. Try going to a community of nudist and wearing only a
g-string. Live where like minded people live, and save yourself the trouble.

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drucken
The irony is that the US is one of the very few countries in the world that by
constitution or legislation requires a separation of church and state.

In practice, at every level of its society, this could not be further from the
truth.

