
India's Nuclear Scientists Keep Dying Mysteriously (2013) - rajathagasthya
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbepmd/why-are-indian-authorities-ignoring-the-deaths-of-nuclear-scientists
======
t1o5
Not only India's. Any developing country's nuclear scientists are either
missing, given citizenship in a first world country or "went abroad" for
research. There are many actors who do not want developing countries to
progress in anyway. Be it nuclear,social or economic.

China is a good example in resisting these warfares/sabotages by foreign
actors. They have effectively controlled foreign actors in meddling with their
social & economic aspects (controlling fake news, social engineering by
controlling the internet). Supporting homegrown technology companies than
foreign ones. India should follow the same.

~~~
kobeya
> India should follow the same.

I hope not. Just because it is effective doesn’t mean it is right.

~~~
t1o5
Though this does not appeal to the pro west crowd. If you have noticed,
recently there is this anti China sentiment floating around on the internet
and even on hackernews as well. This IMO is purposefully engineering to make
China look bad, because they have had huge progress lately. China has
effectively blocked all these social conditioning tactics from their
population by wielding a greater control over the internet. It is effective
and it is right for their progress as a nation.

If India starts to make progress, India will also be targeted. In a country
divided by many languages and cultures, India is very vulnerable for social
conditioning. The case of missing nuclear scientists is one of them.

~~~
secfirstmd
"It is effective and it is right for their progress as a
nation."................I'm sorry, what?

What about all the journalists and activists who are arrested, harassed,
tortured and disappeared in China? Is it right for their progress?

~~~
t1o5
The so called first world countries, its media, and its people, with good
encouragement from certain sectors in the west, often confuse themselves with
the world. US fears and dislikes loss of power and being irrelevant in Asia
Pacific. The public digests news from these media houses and resonate the same
elsewhere.

Among the state and non state actors, China is deeply disliked by global
journalists too. It is also deeply disliked by Human Right
Propagandists/Upholders, and the so called "global civil society on the
internet". The problem is that these people have an ultra large impact on the
perception because these are the people who control media, and a general
person's access to information. They have abject monopoly over access to
knowledge, and are deeply ideological. So much so that, these people are often
found lobbying the United States and on the internet forums for policies that
may harm the world. But they have huge power in Western discourse, and if they
get pissed, they will start a whole ideological parade against their perceived
nuisance. For US, it is simply their loss of influence that they are worried
about.

The biggest people, and the most vocal, which leads to this perception, are
the Global Civil Western Society, who just can't tolerate a state like China's
to succeed. It is against their almost fanatically religious form of worship
for some ideas, systems, and ideologies most of them tend to be under the
guise of pro humanitarian but in reality is borderline jealousy and the fear
of losing out. This also should be read in tandem with the fact that this is
the very same society which supports the NRA, African American suffrage etc.

A similar phenomenon happened in the 1980s and 90s with Japan. The United
States, not the world, was desperately concerned that Japan would not just
pass over them in the future, but had already done so economically and
culturally. The American mindset is extremely fickle, superficial, paranoid,
and shortsighted when it comes to the possibility of foreign rivals. They just
cant stand the very thought of competing in a global economy.

------
iaw
I wonder if there was any update to this in the last 4 years.

>But the most pressing issue isn't who might be behind the murders, but that
the Indian government's apathy is potentially putting their high-value staff
at even greater risk. Currently, these scientists, who are crucial to the
development of India's nuclear programes, whether for energy or security, have
"absolutely no protection at all. Nothing, zero," Madhav told me. "Which is
amazing for people who are in a such a sensitive program."

That strikes me as odd, the possibility not mentioned in the article is that
the Indian government is responsible. The behaviors of the Indian government
in the article do sound suspicious. I understand not wanting to signal to your
scientists the level of danger they're in but, given how valuable an asset
these people are to the country, that India would've tried to protect them if
it was aware at all of a threat and not complicit.

~~~
tryingagainbro
I doubt they can ultimately protect them, research takes decades and they want
to live normal lives. Even the US Presidents hate their security bubble.

Short of putting them in military bases for decades...but even then, a bomb
from above will take them out.

~~~
kobeya
> Short of putting them in military bases for decades...

That’s how the successful nuclear programs have done it, from the very
beginning.

~~~
vanattab
Not really, the nuclear physicists were largely allowed to travel freely. I am
currently reading (listening to the audable book actually) "The making of the
atomic bomb" by Richard Rhodes. I highly recommend the book.

~~~
kobeya
I didn't interpret that as travel restrictions. Just put them under protection
in everyday life, via secret cities.

------
tryingagainbro
Iran's too. [https://www.huffingtonpost.com/haggai-carmon/iran-nuclear-
sc...](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/haggai-carmon/iran-nuclear-scientist-
killed_b_1206591.html)

[http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/11/world/meast/iran-who-
kills...](http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/11/world/meast/iran-who-kills-
scientists/index.html) Another profession not to get into. Thank God my second
choice is crab fishing in Alaska.

Nukes are the ULTIMATE weapons, expect no mercy from your geopolitical
enemies.

~~~
posterboy
as far as i'm aware india has nukes. what would scientists have to improve on
that.

~~~
kobeya
More powerful nukes. Smaller nukes. More nukes per kg of material. Dialable
yield nukes. Source obfuscated nukes. Optimal bombing strategies. Interpreting
intelligence on foreign powers’ attempts at same.

------
Apocryphon
Could this just be weird statistical patterns? See other ones:

microbiologists post-9/11
[http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/deadbiologists...](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/deadbiologists.html)

Russian diplomats
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/07/i...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/07/is-
a-grand-conspiracy-killing-russian-diplomats-or-is-it-demographics/)

~~~
hidenotslide
If by statistical pattern you mean that political enemies of Putin are
statistically more likely to be assassinated. [https://extranewsfeed.com/the-
trail-of-dead-russians-da27ee4...](https://extranewsfeed.com/the-trail-of-
dead-russians-da27ee4a2bdc)

Erovinkin in particular is generally considered a key source in the Steele
dossier.

------
cmurf
The United States recruited (or even pilfered) Nazi Germany's nuclear and
aerospace engineers. Wanna bet they'd have had them killed if they hadn't
agreed? Israel did it with both Iraq and Iran's nuclear engineers.

~~~
rajathagasthya
The CIA has been known for its attempts at sabotaging Indian nuclear weapons
efforts around '74 and '98 tests. One conspiracy theory is that CIA killed
Homi Bhabha, considered the father of Indian nuclear program, in a plane
crash.

------
aq3cn
> 11 nuclear scientists had unnatural deaths during 2009-13 in the country,
> latest data provided by Department of Atomic Energy shows.

> In one case of Barc, police claims that he committed suicide because of
> prolonged illness and closed the case while the remaining cases are still
> under investigation.

> Two research fellows at died in a mysterious fire in the chemistry lab of
> Barc, Trombay in 2010.

> A scientist of F-grade was found murdered at his residence in Mumbai. It is
> suspected that he was strangulated but the murder accused remained untraced
> till date.

> A D-grade scientist at RRCAT also allegedly committed suicide with police
> closing the case.

> Another scientist posted at Kalpakkam allegedly jumped into the sea to end
> his life in 2013 with the case is still under probe whereas a Mumbai based
> scientist committed suicide by hanging, with police citing personal reasons
> for the same.

> One scientist allegedly committed suicide by jumping into Kali river in
> Karwar, Karnataka with police again pointing at personal reasons.

From: [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/11-nuclear-
scienti...](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/11-nuclear-scientists-
died-in-mysterious-circumstances-in-4-years/articleshow/49272275.cms)

similar article from Sunday Guardian newspaper.

> Atomic energy department saw 70 unnatural deaths in eight years

> The Bhabha Atomic Research Centre alone saw 38 of its officials die
> unnaturally, primarily because of accidents, between 1 January 2008 and 1
> October 2016.

From:
[http://www.sundayguardianlive.com/investigation/7559-atomic-...](http://www.sundayguardianlive.com/investigation/7559-atomic-
energy-department-saw-70-unnatural-deaths-eight-years)

Now compare the noise made in those cases with noise made in following
incidents.

Gauri Lankesh Murder:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/opinion/gauri-lankesh-
ind...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/opinion/gauri-lankesh-india-
dead.html)

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/who-is-
nex...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/who-is-next-killing-
of-indian-journalist-gauri-lankesh-sparks-
protests/2017/09/06/e0f2e6f8-9271-11e7-8482-8dc9a7af29f9_story.html)

[http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
india-41169817](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41169817)

[https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/gauri-
lan...](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/gauri-lankeshs-
death-bengaluru-on-high-alert/articleshow/60386107.cms)

Lynching:

[http://www.indiatomorrow.net/eng/killers-of-pahlu-khan-
shoul...](http://www.indiatomorrow.net/eng/killers-of-pahlu-khan-should-be-
prosecuted-under-terror-laws-swami-agnivesh)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/world/asia/india-
lynching...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/world/asia/india-lynchings-
attacks-on-muslims.html)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/world/asia/india-cow-
mob-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/world/asia/india-cow-mob-hindu-
vigilantes.html)

Of course leftists(Maoists?) are controlling the media narrative in India,
otherwise it is just not possible that death of seventy scientists from Bhabha
would go unnoticed, whereas deaths which are potential source of political
mileage and further polarization in society, will cause international noise.

Assuming NDA government to be pro-Nuclear power, as it was NDA government at
the time of PM Vajpai who did Pokhran-II, I am sure that nuclear scientists
will be provided critical security.

