

A standing desk for $22 - onecreativenerd
http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dollars.html
How to build yourself a cheap Ikea standing desk on top of your current desk.
======
goodside
I used to be an advocate of the standing desk. I bought an adjustable-height
Fredrik workstation from Ikea, tried multiple heights to find the most
comfortable, and stuck with it for six months.

It didn't work.

Even after months of practice, I found it harder to concentrate while standing
and doing it any longer than a few hours would invariably result in back pain.
I found myself turning to "sitting tasks" like movies and books frequently
just to get a break, and it greatly impaired my productivity. It wasn't easy
to admit that I had put such a huge amount of effort into a failed experiment,
but that's what it was. I'm writing not to discourage people who might benefit
from a standing desk from trying it, but to give people who have nagging
doubts about their decision a chance to back out without feeling like an
idiot. Eliezer Yudkowsky said once, "'Oops!' is the sound rationalists make
when they level up."

For what it's worth, I'm 25, male, 6'0", and 130 lbs. I don't exercise
regularly, but I live in an urban area in a third-story walk-up, and I don't
drive. If you're thinking I gave up because I'm abnormally out of shape, I'm
not.

~~~
jcampbell1
6'0" and 130 lbs is quite underweight. You have very little muscle and I am
not surprised by the back pain. You need to gain about 25 pounds of muscle and
then consider a standing desk. You need to hit the weights and fridge really
hard for about 6-18 months.

~~~
goodside
There are mountains of evidence that BMI correlates positively with the
incidence of lower back pain. I have no history of LBP outside of the context
of using a standing desk. Further, most of the purported benefit standing
desks is to prolong lifespan, and there's even stronger evidence that low-BMI
people live longer, so the suggestion that I should gain weight and sacrifice
a clinically validated approach to living longer in favor of something as
novel as a standing desk is just absurd.

~~~
bokonist
"and there's even stronger evidence that low-BMI people live longer,"

Not true. If you go by the raw numbers, your BMI of 17.6 puts you at the same
death risk as someone who has a BMI around 30 (which is borderline obese):
[http://ars.els-
cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S014067360960318...](http://ars.els-
cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0140673609603184-gr2.jpg)

Article:
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673609...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673609603184#gr2)

Both higher than typical BMI and lower BMI are associated with higher
mortality risk.

I don't think anyone knows which direction the causality goes ( and that is
true for a lot of things, I'm think the direction of causality is unknown for
a lot of these articles that say "standing is better" or "people who walk more
live longer").

~~~
rada
Per your article, "below the range 22.5-25 kg/m2, BMI was associated inversely
with overall mortality, _mainly because of strong inverse associations with
respiratory disease and lung cancer_ " (italics mine) i.e. if your BMI is low,
average mortality is comparatively high, but only because of smokers. (Study
recruitment year looks to be 1979 when there were a lot more smokers).

Moreover, your study recruited people at age 46 (mean) and followed them
through their death. Meaning, a whole lot of people got older, got sick,
subsequently lost weight and died. Unless proper adjustments were made, the
low BMI-high mortality connection is rather unproven.

For a similar example, see
[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3322/canjclin.55.5.268...](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3322/canjclin.55.5.268/full):

 _The main concern regarding the newer CDC analysis is that it did not
adequately account for weight loss from serious illnesses such as cancer and
heart disease. Including such individuals in the analysis created the false
appearance that being overweight protected against death during the follow
up._

and

 _The newest CDC analysis also failed to account adequately for the effect of
smoking on weight. Smokers tend to be a little lighter than nonsmokers,
although the negative health impact of smoking far outweighs that of a few
extra pounds. As a result, the Flegal study underestimated the risks from
obesity and overestimated the risks of leanness._

Regardless, I don't think we are on different pages since you acknowledged
that no one really knows which direction the causality goes.

------
tzs
The article he cites on the dangers of prolonged sitting is about research on
_prolonged_ sitting. That is indeed bad for you.

However, so is prolonged standing.

You are best off, and you can save $22, by keeping your normal desk and
GETTING UP every 20 minutes or so and moving around. This avoids the problems
with prolonged sitting, without incurring the serious risks of prolonged
standing.

See: <http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/CUESitStand.html>

~~~
abossy
Nobody I know is capable of standing for an entire workday. A drafting stool
is absolutely required, and it's often the trickiest part of the
configuration; for men taller than six feet, it's very difficult to find an
inexpensive drafting stool that is sufficiently tall to match the height of
your desk.

[1] e.g., [http://www.amazon.com/Boss-Drafting-Stool-Foot-
Black/dp/B001...](http://www.amazon.com/Boss-Drafting-Stool-Foot-
Black/dp/B0019QGVL6)

~~~
elktea
> Nobody I know is capable of standing for an entire workday.

I used to work in a supermarket and would stand for nearly the entire day
apart from a short tea break and lunch break. All the other employees would
too. It's not uncommon.

~~~
kamaal
That sort of standing is different than the way programmers work.

In what you describe, people walk around and do some physical activity all the
time. That's totally different than the way programmers work.

We practically stand motionless for hours, with only eyes and fingers moving.
That sorting of standing is difficult to do for prolonged working hours. And
might be more harmful than sitting for long working hours.

~~~
recursive
I used to work in an assembly line in a factory. Other than the minimum
legally mandated breaks, all the line workers stood in one place.

------
evoxed
10 to 20 years from now people will wonder just how in the hell programmers'
knees aged so quickly, until realizing that half the people standing in
attempt to get healthier were simply locking their knees, weighting from side
to side through the 8-hour workday.

Not that I'm against standing– I do so myself to draft as it is much easier on
my neck and back after many hours– but there will likely be consequences which
easily negate the health benefits that come _purely_ from standing vs.
sitting.

------
treblig
There is a hilarious amount of Silicon Valley culture in the organization of
this article. Particularly in pimping your biggest name early adopters.

"Oh, someone from Stripe is using it! I'll bite!"

~~~
gregschlom
Hehehe, in this case, allow me to plug my own $0 standing desk blog post here
- there's also a fair bit of SV culture in it. And pentalobular screws.

<http://gregschlom.com/post/4555981908/standing-desk>

~~~
zerostar07
This looks over engineered to me plus the spinning chair will make it
uncomfortable to type. May I suggest replacing it with a green biodegradable
cardboard box. There are even models with books on top for adjustable height

~~~
idleloops
This was my first standing desk setup.

------
ranebo
Desks on top of desks never felt safe to me.

My recommendation (as it always is anytime these standing desk articles
appear) is the Frederik from IKEA (
<http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60111123/> ) Ok it's not $22 but
I've picked up two now on special for less than $80.

~~~
sudonim
I can assure you this setup is super stable. Even at this price, nothing
wobbles. If you think about where the weight is in this setup vs. others. The
only thing that shifts the balance from a 4 legged table is the keyboard
shelf. If there wasn't a monitor on top of it, you might be able to push down
hard on the shelf to tip the table, but I doubt it. With a monitor on a table,
this thing doesn't move.

Put it on a solid desk and it isn't going anywhere. I'd bet that it's even
more stable than the fredrik which has two skinny legs.

~~~
canterburry
This desk is awesome as a stand up desk. I also used it as a treadmill desk
for 6 months.

~~~
sudonim
Wow. Do you have a pic of that? My contact info is in my profile.

------
gojomo
A comparable commercial offering, made for this purpose and also mounting atop
an existing desk, would be the Ergotron Workfit-S, costing about $370:

<http://www.ergotron.com/tabid/640/Default.aspx>

For the extra $350 you get easier/finer adjustments and perhaps, more
stability.

For someone who just wants to get a little standing time in with a laptop, an
adjustable 'over-bed' table for about $50 is _almost_ a good solution:

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QA0EHI/ref=oh_details_o...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QA0EHI/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00)

I say _almost_ because it doesn't quite have the rigidity that would be best,
or ability to handle any leaning/weight other than just light hand placement.

~~~
mceachen
I got one of these last year.

Even on a really stout desk, the keyboard tray and flimsy plastic display
mounts caused the whole assembly to wobble about whenever I typed.

I switched back to my trusty wooden box after only one day:
<https://twitter.com/andrewrow/statuses/180759221443371008>

------
jaredstenquist
I spent $1,100 on a GeekDesk max (including shipping). An investment in my
health was long overdue, especially since I've spent $4-5,000 on my computer
setup.

The huge benefit is not having to move all your stuff whenever you're done
sitting or standing. I press a button and in 10 seconds it's changed height.
MAGIC!

I highly suggest them to anyone, just watch out for the long backorder. Mine
took 3 months to get here.

~~~
sliverstorm
I'm not against the concept of "investing in your health". That said, while
there have of course been studies that show sitting isn't so hot for your
health, have there been studies that actually show standing desks are _good_?
Varicose veins are not high on my list of to-dos, you know.

~~~
jaredstenquist
It seems that the important part is that you're moving throughout the day.
Personally, when I'm switching between standing and sitting throughout the day
I have more energy and tend to move around a lot more. If I didn't do this,
I'd end up sitting for periods of 4+ hours at a time.

As a CTO I manage development and technology for the company, which means I'm
up and around the office (and out) for meetings and touching base with other
departments. If I were an engineer I'd likely utilize a standing desk less. I
personally don't enjoy coding standing up.

~~~
brown9-2
But if you are already moving around constantly what danger are you avoiding?
The problem is prolonged sitting.

------
thegoleffect
Lack's usefulness continues to surprise me
(<http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack>).

~~~
evoxed
How have I never noticed... there was a sale at IKEA last year or something
and I picked up a bunch of those. They're the perfect size for my turntable on
top and records underneath– but as a rackmount, damn! I knew those things were
good for $5 a piece...

------
campnic
Is there any study of the cumulative effects of stationary standing vs.
sitting?

------
ef4
I used a similar setup for quite a while, but the big drawback is that you
can't conveniently switch between standing and sitting.

Now I have a crank-operated height-adjustable desk that I really like, and it
only cost $588. I bought this base
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NJUQVG> and attached an Ikea pine
tabletop ($60).

~~~
jdf
I have the exact same setup at home, and am also a fan. It works well, is
cheaper than a lot of other pre-built solutions (although obviously not as
cheap as the original post), and seems to be pretty well made. I'm also much
happier with the idea of a hand crank than an electric motor.

I also ended up getting an anti-fatigue mat as well. I thought that other
standing desk folks were overrating the mats, but after the first few days
standing at my desk (on a hardwood floor, no less) I saw the light.

~~~
GiraffeNecktie
Any recommendation for the mat? I picked up some foam thingy's that are sold
for gardening. Better than nothing but they seem a little too bouncy.

~~~
zcid
Search for "anti-fatigue mat". I bought one for $20 off Amazon which seems to
do the job well enough.

------
pavel_lishin
The problem with these solutions is that when you get tired, you get to
disassemble this sucker.

~~~
imperialWicket
Drafting chairs work well - though it adds to the cost of the 'desk'.

~~~
rogerbinns
I never understood why everyone wants desks that raise an lower, instead of
just using the drafting chairs thereby avoiding any raise/lower mechanism.

~~~
gte910h
High chairs make a lot of people's legs go to sleep.

~~~
kd5bjo
Only if there isn't a footrest at the proper height.

------
Goronmon
Some tips from my experience with a standing desk for the last few years.

\- Get a chair tall enough that you can comfortably sit in and work at your
desk. I have never been able to stand for an entire day.

\- Get a separate footstool that is high enough to work with the above chair.
Being separate you can use it as a way to reposition your legs while standing
(ie. putting one leg up on the stool) so that you aren't standing in the exact
same position all day.

\- Either get a decent mat for standing, or make sure you have shoes you can
comfortably stand in. I haven't had to use a mat yet personally.

------
reedlaw
Is standing long hours really healthier than sitting? (See
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-
term_complications_of_stan...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-
term_complications_of_standing))

Personally, I feel both sitting and standing for long hours are uncomfortable
and prefer walking. But a walking desk is hard to find for $22. I was able to
build one for $80 using a used treadmill from Craigslist, free pallet boards
made into a keyboard stand, and an old bookshelf to support the monitor.

~~~
ricardobeat
What about a horse-mounted desk?

~~~
roidragequit
i've seen this recommended as an alternative before, is this close enough?

[http://www.amazon.com/Clinical-Health-Services-Inc-
Saddle/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Clinical-Health-Services-Inc-
Saddle/dp/B004YWTGO6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340151741&sr=8-1&keywords=saddle+chair)

------
Flow
As some say, the best way to sit is to sit like a child, not still. :)

I recently bought a electric adjustable desk from IKEA. (Link to swedish IKEA:
<http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/S69806883/> ).

I can really recommend it even if you'll seldom actually stand up using it. It
allows you to change the height a little every now and then so you can vary
the position you have.

------
sunsu
I switched to a standing desk a year ago and will never go back. The biggest
benefit is that it completely got rid of my wrist pain. I'm still trying to
figure out exactly why though.

The first couple of months were rough on my back, but adding a nice standing
mat helped that a lot...as well as doing some back excercises like back
extensions and dead lifts.

~~~
oscardelben
Yes, use a mat guys it helps a lot

------
molecule
* desk not included

------
charlieok
I think being able to switch easily between sitting and standing throughout
the day beats having to do either one alone for long periods of the time,
hands down.

Wish this were standard practice in the corporate world. Seems like a
relatively cheap way to improve health/ergonomics.

------
rfolstad
I use an Ikea UTBY straight up no mods. I found it in craigslist for 80$. It's
the perfect height for me. (5'8)
<http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49843462/>

------
BobPalmer
For mine, I knocked together one out of plywood (3' x 6') and 2x4's for
supports and shelving (basically a pair of framed out stands
20"Wx30"Lx42"H)for about $50. Then added a nice anti-fatigue mat from Amazon,
and picked up a nice Drafting chair, so I can easily go from standing to
sitting (and tend to change position every half hour or so).

Best part is that I was able to precisely size it for my home office, and have
it at exactly the right height. Took a bit of getting used to, but it's one of
the best investments I've made. Only issue now is that my window AC unit only
keeps my feet cold, since the desktop is a few inches higher than the AC
unit..

------
lda
Does anyone actually use a standing desk daily? I get antsy and uncomfortable
standing after just a few minutes. How people manage to get real work done
with a setup like this is a complete mystery to me.

~~~
verisimilidude
I was also uncomfortable with my standing desk at first. Several tricks made
it better:

* Started working out. Standing became much easier as my physical condition improved.

* Bought an anti-fatigue mat. Crucial.

* Learned to do a subtle, subconscious jig instead of just standing still. You'll be much less antsy when you're constantly shifting your weight around.

------
beagle3
For $50 at amazon (+free shipping, yay for Prime), I got a hospital style
bedside table. It's small, and not perfectly stable, but it is quite stable,
easily adjusted (some models go from 22" to 48" - make sure you get one that
goes to 40" if you get one), and comfortably hosts a 17" laptop and a
mousepad.

Plus, it has lockable wheels, so it can move around. And you can use it as a
bedside table, when you feel like feeling decadent.

------
dsirijus
I've been combining standing desk, couch and workdesk for some 2 years now.
I've completely annihilated back and neck pain with that discipline.

Originally, I was using a standing desk just so I can go and smoke in the
other room and not stop working.

As for BMI... Mine is 35, and I am a walking proof that BMI is a complete
bogus for individual to measure his well being. I'm just big boned. My head
measures 25" on height of 5'11".

~~~
dredmorbius
Now to work on that smoking habit ;-)

~~~
dsirijus
Never. I'd rather die.

------
samstave
I got really lucky. having just moved to alameda from SF, into a house 3 times
as big as my apartment, I had very little furniture to fill out my new place.

The neighbor across the street was having a garage sale and I bought two
adjustable height desks from him for $200, one of which is an electric raise-
lower desk!

I feel so lucky as I have wanted one forever, but couldn't afford one... now I
have one!

------
tluyben2
I have an old fashion chair on top of my table and underneath that a few
copies of "Types and Programming Languages". Works really well. I never felt
fitter and would really tell every programmer to do the same. Our employees
get the choice, but we advice them to walk (I do not think standing is better;
at least I tried and it hurts, walking doesn't) behind their desk.

------
sakai
Do you mind sharing how stable that configuration is? (Both the monitor and
keyboard)

I've found one difficulty with even moderately nice standing desks (i.e., a
Herman Miller desk) is that they vibrate quite noticeably when being typed
upon. Combine this with an adjustable monitor (read: easier to customize, more
expensive, and shakier) and you get quite an annoying result.

------
alexbowman
Install 9 screens with at least 3 non interfacing systems on your desk which
spans 2m one way and 3m the other or more, L shaped. Ensure your job, several
times per day, involves having to stand up and walk to stakeholders 10s or
100s of meters away then verbally face-off rather than passively email. That
should be healthy...

------
leoc
> * The cheapest adjustable standing desks are around $800 (geekdesk)

Some seem to be available for a lot less: [http://www.amazon.com/Safco-1929CY-
Adjustable-Stand-Up-Works...](http://www.amazon.com/Safco-1929CY-Adjustable-
Stand-Up-Workstation/dp/B001MS70Z2) (Or am I missing something here?)

------
jimmar
I did something similar, except I used old cardboard boxes I found around my
house. In the end, I gave it up. My neck and shoulders felt good, but I could
feel the blood pooling up in my legs and feet. It just wasn't comfortable. I
think some sort of hybrid standing/sitting position would be ideal.

------
jboggan
I stack things on my desk to get the monitor the right height. My keyboard and
mouse ride on one of these, instantly upholstered with a pillow case:

<http://www.manhasset-specialty.com/index.cfm?pageID=3>

Adjustable to any height and angle desired.

------
mulletbum
I just have two small desks next to each other. One with a setup like this for
standing and one for sitting.

I have two identical monitors mirrored screens, one on the standing and one on
the sitting.

Then when I want to move to the standing or sitting position the only thing I
have to move is my wireless mouse and keyboard.

------
bobsy
This is awesome. The thing that has put me off the standing desk is the cost.
I sit too much. With such a small investment it doesn't matter if it fails or
not. Similarly such a small table can be easily discarded.

I am getting the bits later on today. I hope to have a standing desk by the
end of the week.

------
BenSS
Far too unstable for my tastes, especially with an iMac. I paid slightly more
and got an 11" high coffee table from Ikea for $40 to drop on top of my
existing desk. it has worked out really well for me, and provides more storage
under. Clear work surface!

------
jasonsee
I like the use of a coffee table instead of a side table - more room. As seen
here: [http://rockmaninoff.posterous.com/standing-desk-v2-and-
hopef...](http://rockmaninoff.posterous.com/standing-desk-v2-and-hopefully-
final)

------
saadmalik01
I don't understand — why are adjustable desks so expensive? I can't imagine
someone not being able to produce a more affordable alternative to a GeekDesk.
If it's in the $200-$350 range, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

------
recycleme
If you work in a cubicle and your desk is attached to the walls, get a
screwdriver and a co-worker (optional) to help you adjust it to a comfortable
standing height. I did it and it was easy and free!

------
Detrus
I bought a similar Ikea side table for $10. I use a laptop so I can take it
down and sit. No extra work for keyboard is required. And mine matches the
color of the sitting desk.

~~~
tatsuke95
> _"No extra work for keyboard is required. "_

If you're using your laptop keyboard and screen, you probably don't have
things in the optimum position (hands too high, monitor too low).

~~~
Detrus
Probably but got used to it quicker than to standing. It depends on
individual's height.

------
nodrama
what I fantasize of using is a dentist chair. You can put the keyboard and
mouse on the adjustable tools tray, and hung the monitor on the adjustable arm
for the lights. The chair position is adjustable as well (I prefer a position
in which I sit more on the back with the legs slightly higher than my bottom).
I never felt so good in a chair as I did on a recent visit to the dentist.

The only downside is the cost.

Has anyone tried this?

------
netmute
On a completely unrelated note, I like to compliment you for your excellent
taste in keyboards. I've seen multiple HHKB Pros on the pictures :)

------
somesaba
Did I miss something or did it exclude the cost of the table upon which the
lack table is sitting on?

~~~
ricefield
No the article assumes you already have a desk at work, and the point is that
you would only have to pay $22 to build a standing desk on top of what you
already have - most companies will provide you a desk for free, after all.

------
mahyarm
Now to figure out how to fit a treadmill to it. I haven't seen a treadmill
without a pedestal.

~~~
AsylumWarden
Even better check out ChaCha CEO Scott Jones' simple little computer set up.
It only has 8 monitors and an exercise bike:
[http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fsb/0710/gallery.scott_j...](http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fsb/0710/gallery.scott_jones.fsb/2.html)

------
ericson578
I'd like a desk that can change easily between sitting and standing.

~~~
bronson
I bought a Steelcase Airtouch back in Dec. LOVE IT. Stable, looks great,
effortless up & down, no waiting for loud electric motors. I paid $1250.
Expensive but worth the money IMO.

I find I spend 20% of my time standing, 80% sitting. Being able to switch at
any time is key.

~~~
b3b0p
I've looked into these. I'm leaning towards a Geek Desk for one reason: The
pedestal in the middle, does it not get in the way of your legs at all?

------
eragnew
I am going to try to build one of these. Thanks for sharing this!

------
idleloops
At home I use a keyboard stand (or rather a stand designed for an electric
piano), it's adjustable for both sitting and standing, and you can easily put
it away.

~~~
felideon
Wait, what do you put on top of it to hold the (presumably) laptop? I say
'presumably' as you usually need two heights on standing desks: one for the
keyboard and one for the monitor which should be higher.

~~~
idleloops
I use a couple of belts, that I can adjust to exactly the right length - to
get a good height. The laptop sits in that like a dream and makes for a good
laptop desk. With a desktop PC - I just sit the monitor somewhere practical,
the keyboard spans the stand it just rests there.

My main desk is actually a drop leaf table. I sit my desktop PC on it. When
sitting, the monitor is placed in front of the PC. When standing the monitor
goes on top of the PC, and I drop the desk bit.

Something like this:
[http://janeharrop.co.uk/images/12thimages/12th_utility_drop_...](http://janeharrop.co.uk/images/12thimages/12th_utility_drop_leaf_table.jpg)

I'd actually prefer a drop leaf that I could hide the PC in. But currently the
PC serves as a good stand for the monitor. It also makes the PC very
accessible. The trickier part of my setup is accommodating a mouse. But I
could just place a board on the piano/keyboard stand.

------
idleloops
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_There>

Just about sums it up.

------
brendanobrien
So good!

