
Oslo's Plan to Decarbonize Its Port - pseudolus
https://www.citylab.com/environment/2019/11/oslo-port-shipping-emissions-climate-plan-electric-ferries/601378/
======
vinni2
All this decarbonization would pale in comparison to all the emissions from
the oil that Norway refused to stop or slow down extracting. Norwegian
government continues to issue new drilling licenses.

~~~
soperj
If Norway stops extracting oil then oil price goes up which just means
producers in other countries start producing more which brings the price back
down. We don't have an oil supply problem, we have an oil demand problem.

~~~
bad_user
This crisis will not be solved unless oil prices go up. Demand will decrease
only when cheaper alternatives are available.

But I agree that Norway not extracting oil doesn't solve anything. The only
way to solve this IMO is to tax carbon emissions and do so in a way as to make
the burning of fossil fuels very expensive. And also restrict imports from
countries that don't have similar policies.

And I don't see that happening any time soon.

~~~
bryanlarsen
> This crisis will not be solved unless oil prices go up

Then we're well and truly screwed without a carbon tax or equivalent. Cheap
oil is here to stay.

The price of a commodity is the cost of the marginal unit. IOW, if the world
production is about 100 million barrels per day, with the cheapest barrel
being $10 Saudi Oil and the most expensive barrel being $60 Canadian Tar Sands
oil, and there's demand for 100 million barrels per day at a price of at least
$60, then the price is $60. Canadians make no profit, Saudi's rake it in.

And looking at the production curve for oil indicates that Canada and
Venezuela have massive reserves of tar sands, so there's a very effective
price cap on oil at around $60. It fluctuates because demand can shift faster
than production can be ramped up, but the long term cap is $60.

Given the above supply curve, there are two very likely sources of drops:

1\. technology could make oil sands production cheaper. This has happened
regularly before so is likely to continue.

2\. substitutes could suppress demand. Wind power is at 3c/kWh and dropping,
and batteries are steadily getting cheaper too. Obviously electricity won't
and can't replace all uses for oil, but it can and is replacing marginal uses.

~~~
soperj
>1\. technology could make oil sands production cheaper. This has happened
regularly before so is likely to continue.

Already happened. Oil sands is profitable at $40 or under, depending on the
development.

~~~
bryanlarsen
True. And that's the price of Alberta heavy oil in Alberta. The difference
between that and the benchmark West Texas Intermediate price is mostly
shipping.

------
ericvanular
An interesting conversation around decarbonization in ports is going on at
[https://collective.energy/topic/29/green-hydrogen-from-
sea-w...](https://collective.energy/topic/29/green-hydrogen-from-sea-water-
renewable-energy-for-the-maritime-and-renewable-energy-industries/40)!

~~~
nso
Off topic; does anyone know if collective.energy uses a ready-made forum
software, or if it's custom made? I really liked it.

~~~
ericvanular
Hey nso, thanks! I'm the maker of collective.energy - as you identified, it
was originally based on NodeBB but has been highly customized to the needs of
our community. Over time, we're moving more and more to our own tools & stack.
What specifically are you enjoying about it?

~~~
nso
I really liked how snappy it felt, and how minimalistic the thread view is.
It's hard to put in words but it feels like a combination of many other
software I've seen, but that it hits a sweet spot.

I'm currently building a BB software \in c# .net core for my own use and with
plans to OS it, and your site gave me some ideas and made me question some of
the choices I've made. I've been adament agains AJAXifying the navigation
between pages, but seeing how well it works on NodeBB I am having second
thoughts.

~~~
thephyber
NodeBB is one of the better engineered forums. The code is a pleasure to read.
It's very modular -- makes uses of Node emitters frequently to implement
plugin modules via PubSub.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=psychobunny](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=psychobunny)
did a great job.

