
Ask HN: How do you deal with suicidal thoughts ? - awesom3
For the past couple of weeks, I have been having extremely suicidal thoughts.<p>I am getting paranoid, and even though I am sure that I am not capable of committing suicide
nor do I want to, it is extremely disheartening, and very counterproductive.<p>If any of you have dealt with a similar situation, please let me know how to deal with this.<p>Thanks in anticipation.<p>EDIT: email: xoxo(at)hush.ai
======
endlessvoid94
I had an extremely close friend kill himself just before christmas this year.
I found out later that he'd been planning it for quite some time (I'm 24, he
was 21).

He seemed fine. He hid his feelings well, and expected people to ask how he
was doing. When people did ask him how he was doing, he'd say he was fine,
again, expecting people to dig deeper.

He's gone. Forever. I think about him nearly every day and I wish he was here.

You really do have an effect on people, even if you don't think so. You do. If
you're gone, people will miss you. They won't just miss you, but they'll be so
stricken with grief they might not recover for a long, long time.

Fuck that. Not worth it. Not worth it for yourself or for the people you love
and the people who love you.

------
BobbyH
What you're talking about is called suicidal ideation:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicidal_ideation>. (Google those keywords to
learn more.)

I have dealt with this issue for 20 years. The first 10 years, I thought I was
going to die. But I've learned to lower my suicidal ideation levels
tremendously by trial and error.

It was reassuring for me to learn from a psychologist friend that (A) suicidal
ideation is the "lowest rung on the ladder of risk", so to speak, in terms of
the risk of actually killing yourself. The next rungs on the ladder are: (B)
deciding to kill yourself, (C) deciding when to kill yourself, and (D)
deciding how to kill yourself. With that said, if you go up a rung, you're in
trouble and need to escalate your remedies.

In my experience, if you are sure you are not capable of committing suicide
and/or do not want to, it's possible to live a long time with suicidal
ideation, although it sucks.

Here are some tips:

* Stop drinking if you lose control of yourself while drunk, especially if you're a sad drunk. Or at least limit the number of drinks you consume.

* Suicidal ideation is a symptom of depression, which is an mechanism that evolved to tell us that our body/mind is thinking: "I don't like something about your life and you need to change it." Focus on changing those somethings.

* You are allowed to have "bad thoughts" like "I am so depressed". However, you cannot allow yourself to have "bad thoughts about bad thoughts" or what I call "meta thoughts". In other words, you can't think "I am so depressed that I'm still depressed." Meta thoughts lead to bad thought spirals which increases suicidal ideation.

* Exercise does not ameliorate this condition for me, but it may for you, try it?

* Reduce the amount of stress in your life. This definitely contributes to depression. But really, you need to figure out why your body/mind is rebelling against you. If you're trapped in a bad job/relationship, you need to fix that.

* Watch this video to learn about the three levels of happiness: [http://blog.sokanu.com/building-a-happiness-framework-in-you...](http://blog.sokanu.com/building-a-happiness-framework-in-your-compan)

* Like me, you probably have a very low positive affect (don't smile a lot naturally, aren't bubbly/happy). Focus on spending as much time in Flow (the second level) as possible: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXIeFJCqsPs>

Good luck!

~~~
modality
> Stop drinking if you lose control of yourself while drunk, especially if
> you're a sad drunk. Or at least limit the number of drinks you consume.

Coming from someone who struggles with anxiety and paranoia, the first thing I
was told when I went to the psychiatrist was to quit drinking. I am by no
means an alcoholic, but I used to go out probably twice a week and I'd also
have a beer after work to unwind.

The results were like night and day. All I had to do was not drink during the
week and go out less (maybe once every two weeks). You may not be in this
boat, but if you are you're doing yourself a favor to cut back.

~~~
jey
Sleeping with alcohol in one's system significantly reduces sleep quality, so
your mental state the next day is not nearly as good as it could be, even if
you aren't outright hungover. Plus, having sleep debt makes you more likely to
drink, which makes you accumulate more sleep debt since you don't sleep as
well, even though you're sleeping for longer.

<http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa41.htm>

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Alcohol_use_a...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Alcohol_use_and_sleep)

~~~
lisper
> Sleeping with alcohol in one's system significantly reduces sleep quality

Obviously the answer then is to start drinking in the morning.

;-) ;-) ;-)

------
viggity
I recently had a friend from college commit suicide. Please, Please, Please
find some help, I'm sure you are drastically underestimating how many people
would miss you dearly.

There are plenty of organizations that will talk to you for free. Most large
corporations have an Employee Assistance Program (EAP) that can provide you
with three therapy sessions for free and virtually every healthcare plan under
the sun covers mental health, it'll cost you a $15 co-pay. Go as often as you
need.

I hope that you you find someone that can help you work through these issues.

------
mixmax
Please put an e-mail in your profile. If you don't want to be identified use
something like hushmail.

I'm certain there are many people here that can relate to your problems, but
most of them might not want to speak up in a public forum about these issues
and may prefer to contact you privately.

There was a somewhat similar post a few months back
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=937430>) where the submitter was urged
to set up an e-mail for private conversations. I think it might have helped
him/her to talk to othe HN'ers in private.

~~~
mortenjorck
HN could probably benefit by a "post anonymously" feature similar to
Slashdot's. This is a productive discussion on a very real issue, and some
name-free posting could bring out even more personal perspectives. Sure, you
can always make a second account, but it's a bit of a kludge.

------
fragmede
Go see a therapist. And I don't mean it in an off-handed fashion. I mean it in
a professional who helps people deals with this and other problems. If there's
a chemical imbalance, drugs can help. A doctor can prescribe them if they're
needed.

~~~
Alex3917
"If there's a chemical imbalance, drugs can help."

Medical statistics seem to show otherwise. For people who undergo a first bout
of depression, most people who don't medicate get better in 6-18 months and
then never relapse. Whereas those who medicate have a much higher chance of
relapsing multiple times later in life.

source: Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.

~~~
Devilboy
That doesn't mean that there's no such thing as a chemical imbalance that can
be improved with drugs. Maybe we're just over-prescribing anti-depressants.

~~~
Alex3917
"That doesn't mean that there's no such thing as a chemical imbalance that can
be improved with drugs."

While it's not theoretically impossible that depression is caused by a
neurotransmitter imbalance, most of the evidence is against it and most
researchers now reject the hypothesis. Wikipedia has a nice summary of the
current consensus on the serotonin imbalance hypothesis.

~~~
Devilboy
But antidepressants do work for some people, even if we don't understand the
precise mechanism. I agree that the 'chemical imbalance' theory is probably
wrong and certainly oversimplified but for some individuals life is
significantly better with antidepressants than without.

Drugs can help.

~~~
Alex3917
Of course they _can_ help. But for most people they make the condition worse.
And since there is no way for any individual to know in advance whether the
drugs will be safe or effective for them in the long term, I don't think it
makes much sense to recommend them except for short term use in an emergency
or as an option of last resort.

If you've been tested for every nutritional imbalance, and you're getting
daily exercise, and socializing sufficiently, and if your work/family
situation is good, and if you're taking the appropriate nutritional
supplements, and if you've already tried various therapists, then trying one
of the various drugs on the market might make sense. But the fact is that
these drugs aren't very effective for most people, are extremely addictive,
and have a high rate of causing serious side effects, including ones that lead
to permanent disability or death.

What's more, the drug makers often lie about the safety and efficacy of their
drugs in the clinical trials to get them approved, so the reality is almost
certainly worse than what's already being acknowledged. (C.f. all of the
scandals surrounding the approval of prozac, lexapro, benzo usage, washing out
placebo responders, etc.)

~~~
gruseom
There was a pretty astonishing if deadpan interview on Fresh Air recently with
a psychiatrist who, although more orthodox than Whitaker, has published a book
questioning the overreliance of psychiatry on drugs.
([http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1281075...](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128107547))

Among other things I didn't know, he recounted how many of the leading
articles on antidepressant efficacy were in fact written by advertising
companies (yes, you read that right). The pharmaceutical companies would then
pay famous psychiatrists to use their names as the authors of the already-
written piece. These studies were published in all the leading journals (New
England, etc.). The interviewer asked this guy what consequences there had
been for the psychiatrists who had been bought off in this way. He said there
had been none.

He also said (no surprises here) that he and other psychiatrists routinely
tell their patients the chemical imbalance theory despite knowing that there
is no evidence for it, on the grounds that people want a little "knowledge"
about how the drugs they're being prescribed.

------
byoung2
Please don't do anything to harm yourself. If you feel like suicide is your
only option, please seek help. You can call the National Suicide Prevention
Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 to speak to someone right away.

------
beej71
This is going to sound nuts, and of course I offer no guarantees, but I found
that I did a lot better on days I ate bananas.

Hear me out for a moment.

I really like bananas... I buy a couple bunches and they're gone in a few
days. Yummy. But then I don't get to the store for a while, and so on. One day
not too long ago, I saw a bit of a correlation between my mood and the days I
had bananas.

Digging around a bit, bananas (or papaya or dates) turn out to be one of the
fruits that increase serotonin levels, one of the chemicals that might play a
role in depression.

So... at this point it might be all placebo, but I don't care. I eat bananas
every day and feel generally good! (Hey, it's only a couple bucks to try out,
and at least it's not heroin or something!)

Naturally, the banana is no substitute for professional help, etc.

~~~
jeromec
I don't think it's nuts. I am no doctor but I have a theory, which is
basically as simple as positive versus negative thinking and energy. I
absolutely believe eating foods you like, especially if they are naturally
healthy, can help with depression. I think a reason many people become
overweight is they seek something which provides something positive, like
tasty foods, to alleviate depression. Unfortunately, they often choose junk
food, which I don't recommend as it can spike your energy level, then bring
you back down. Eating healthy can provide a much nicer energy curve, which I
think is very helpful. Like others have said, I also believe exercise can
help. This is because you take on a positive task (betterment of your health)
and feel good for completing that task, in addition to feeling better
physically. Here again is something positive which I believe offsets negative
energy/thoughts. Chemicals within the body may also play a role, but again,
I'm no doctor. I do, however, strongly feel that positive thinking and acts
are very helpful. On the other hand, negative thoughts can spiral downward and
become even more of a problem, so dwelling on negative thoughts should be
avoided.

------
SandB0x
Please seek the help of a professional as soon as you can, and take care of
yourself, even if you don't think you are capable of the act.

------
krakensden
Don't be alone- suck up your pride and your pain and make sure you're never
alone. And don't be afraid to call a bunch of people you've never talked to in
a while: it's just laziness and the disconnectedness of modern life, they're
still your friends.

Don't stay up late by yourself, sleep immediately or go somewhere where you
/aren't alone/.

------
zavulon
Here is what worked for me.

At some point (a long long time ago), I came pretty close, and one day I wrote
a long, very thorough explanation of what exactly was wrong and why I was
going to do it.

After finishing it, I read it with a critical eye and imagined people finding
it after I do it. I put myself in their shoes and saw right away - those
reasons are NOT got enough. Pretty much everyone who'd see it would think
"Wow, that guy was a fucking pussy for offing himself like that." I saw that
my problems were not THAT serious, and totally not worth doing it.

Immediately, I felt much better, and started writing a concrete plan to solve
my issues. Some of those problems are still present in my life, and
occasionally I do feel depressed about them, but since then, overall my life
has been a thousand times better, and I've never seriously considering doing
it, nor do I think I will ever.

------
AmberShah
I second everyone else's advice to find support with a professional. It's
definitely the "best" solution, but I've not had great experiences with that
and maybe you're in the same boat.

If there is someone, a family member or significant other that you trust, be
sure to tell them how you are feeling. When you are in a dark place, it's easy
to get tunnel vision. They may not be able to "fix it" the way a professional
can, but they may be able to help you along and give you the perspective you
need.

There is a book "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life" which has been great for
me and my husband. Basically, you find out which profile fits you, and then it
gives you specific advice for how to improve yourself. When I was reading my
own profile, and that of my husbands, I was like yes, yes that's it! It was
like it was describing us personally. And we had already learned through self-
study some of the benefits that helped us. But once we saw them reinforced, we
know to do them more consciously.

~~~
c3o
I agree that you need to make sure there are people in your life who know
clearly (ie, you tell them honestly and openly) what you're going through, who
can stand by your side as you go through several attempts at coping with this.

I can assure you right now that if you ever went through with it, there would
be several (if not dozens) of devastated people going "If I had only
known...!"

As for how to involve other people while still "saving face" and not being too
much of a burden, I always liked Jane McGonigal's "recovery game" idea, maybe
this can give you some ideas: [http://blog.avantgame.com/2009/09/super-better-
or-how-to-tur...](http://blog.avantgame.com/2009/09/super-better-or-how-to-
turn-recovery.html)

I wish you all the best!

------
ja27
I've had similar stuff, including massive panic attacks / anxiety, especially
in graduate school. I learned to deal with it through diet, exercise, but
mostly by getting outside and getting more sunlight. If your climate / weather
allows for it, go take a sick day, pack a lunch, and go spend at least half
the day in some sunny park or beach.

I also find it helps to write out all the thoughts in your head. If I don't do
this, I feel like my brain is stuck in a loop, always coming right back to
whatever major issue I'm having. Getting that issue down on paper somehow lets
my brain move on and really think about some other things for a while.

~~~
popschedule
I do the same thing when I over-think. It's overload and background noise in
my head. I go through a couple waves every year with very bad panic attacks
for a few good weeks, usually triggered by stress. I notice it's when I have a
hunch to do something but then delay on it for a few minutes/hours/etc. starts
as a restless feeling which then leads to dervish behavior then thoughts
directed internally... leading to hyper ventilation, heart palpitations, etc.
Good advice I'll have to try that next time.

------
niels_olson
doc here. Seems like this is the most common issue on Hacker News. I suspect
there is a common thread, something along the lines of negative thinkers are
the people who identify problems and strive to solve them, but such a
personality is at perpetual risk of decompensating toward depression. I think
Andy Thompson's theory makes a ton of sense for most depressives in this
community

[http://andersonthomson.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/10/Andrew...](http://andersonthomson.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/10/Andrews_Thomson_PsychReview_2009.pdf)

~~~
rphlx
Unfortunately I think you may be right. To build a very high quality system,
you need to be adept at identifying every major and minor flaw, actual and
potential. Happy people often seem unable to do this rigorously. "My code is
great! The sky is so blue today! I love my awesome wife! That SIGSEGV was just
a hardware problem!"

People rationalize to maintain their preferred emotional state. Thus, to find
problems thoroughly, it helps to think the whole system is thoroughly fucked.

------
alfredp
Besides seeing a professional, there are some random things: (I don't know
your situation so hence the randomness)

\- Read this: [http://whitehottruth.com/white-hot/the-manifesto-of-
encourag...](http://whitehottruth.com/white-hot/the-manifesto-of-
encouragement/)

\- If you have sappy depressing music playing all the time, turn it off. Mood
is affected by music.

\- Go for a walk.

\- Don't drink alone.

\- Go to church.

\- Realize that there are things in your life that you can't change. And
things that you can change. Accept the things you can't change. Change the
things that you can change.

~~~
prawn
Or if you're not a religious chap, replace "Go to church" with something else
regular and social like learning a language (no, not a programming language),
dance classes, cooking classes, etc.

------
eleanorthedude
Hey man- You're getting a lot of advice. I'd even say some of it's good :)
Here's my two bits - but only you can find out what'll work for you.

Around the time I turned 20 I started having bouts of serious depression that
lasted from 2-5 days. And then I'd get better and be OK for a week or two.
This was pretty debilitating, and left me more or less emotionally unstable
until I sought professional help around the time I was 25. I frequently
entertained suicidal thoughts in this period.

Around 25 I found a therapist I could trust, and a psychiatrist. I have a
family history of alcoholism and bipolar disorder, and my psychiatrist
diagnosed me as bipolar pretty quickly. For the past 5 years I've been taking
an anti-depressant (celexa) and a mood stabilizer (lithium) every day. That,
combined with weekly therapy, has made me 100% more functional in daily life.

Above all else, find a therapist. I'm on my 4th, have been seeing him weekly
for 5 years, and I like him a lot. The first few you try might suck - I had
one therapist who actually belittled my problems. I ditched her. My current
therapist has helped me excavate and talk about the ugliest stuff in my head.
Turns out it's a lot easier to live with if you can hold it, turn it over, and
talk about it. I know for a fact that I'm a better person because of therapy.

Pharmaceuticals probably aren't for everybody. But they sure as hell helped
me. I credit them in part with the healthy marriage, productive professional
life, and happy social life I have now. I'm going to have a freakin' baby next
month, and I'm psyched about it. You can work through this.

Good luck. You're already drowning in advice, but here's my story. Cheers!

------
drhodes
My rule is really simple: As long as there are people who are alive who care
about me, then I may not kill myself. People are anchors for each other,
whether they are vocal about this or not. The profound, irreversible,
emotional collateral damage is not justifiable, and that's all there is to it.

Since I have family and friends who are younger than me, it's likely my rule
will be in effect until die from natural causes. QED.

------
tiffani
What causes these thoughts? Either way, talk to a loved one (who loves you) or
a friend and then visit a psych. Some people may rant about having drugs
prescribed, but that doesn't always have to be the solution. Just having
somebody to talk to about your issues (who can help you work through them) can
be incredibly helpful.

------
jgg
Self-analysis - is there any rationale behind your thoughts? If you can pull
yourself out of the bowels of misery long enough to think (it's hard, trust
me), why do you feel the way you feel? There's always a good chance that
there's a more serious disorder lurking, so _don't_ take this to mean that you
shouldn't see someone. Don't discount psychologists just because they
sometimes follow quack theories, either. Sometimes, just having someone to
talk to is enough.

The dangerous threshold you cross is when you jump from extremely graphic,
horrifying thoughts to physical activities that motion you on towards suicide.
Once you, for example, start driving to a point where you want to jump off
from or shopping for antihistamines to keep poison in your system, you're
beyond the point where self-help can be effective.

I've been through this, and despite all the points where you tell yourself
you're just going to do it, you reach a moment of mental clarity where you
truly internalize the notion of suicide. You'll either push forward and decide
to go on with it, or you'll realize that you just feel like shit and suicide
is your pre-programmed pattern of thought for coping with it. If you decide on
the former, _stop and call emergency services so someone can save you from
yourself_.

This advice isn't pulled out my ass, either. I wake up every other day or so
with the desire to crash my car into the local river or hang myself. But after
thinking it through, I know it's because I have a shitty, non-relevant job and
attend a crappy school in a backwater state in a country full of and run by
ignorant loons. Just rationalizing my emotions removes the stinging pain that
makes me want to kill myself, although I still feel the desire to bulldoze
everyone in my local Wal-mart, so go figure. (-;

If you have a preferred contact method, let me know. I'd be happy to talk to
you. Although _I AM NOT A DOCTOR, NOR A DECENT SUBSTITUTE FOR ONE_ , I have
been through something like this, so I may be able to provide more insight.

Take care.

------
horofox
I also do have those suicidal thoughts, I gave up internships, friends and
stuff to get better at programming and do a startup but I didn't get anywhere
yet, I don't even have an idea. That made me lose some contacts and I hardly
go out. But the deal is... I belive in myself so should you too, also I can't
let the people that care about me down. In life you have a history ahead and
you are a part of what will happen in the future of many people, of your
future husband/wife, of your kids and many more. One thing that i do to
relieve depression is work out, I seriously hate it but in the end of it I
feel good and that I did the "exercise of the day" or go for a walk. Lately I
haven't really taken my emotions seriously(yea... i'm even getting used to it)
so I haven't been that much depressed.

I hope you do fine.

------
lisper
> If any of you have dealt with a similar situation, please let me know how to
> deal with this.

For what it's worth, you are not alone. This happens to a lot of people. It
happened to me. Still does on occasion. But it's an individual thing. There is
no one-size-fits-all solution. You have to try different things and find out
what works for you.

Here's what works for me:

1\. Exercise. It's amazing what a good dose of endorphines can do.

2\. Focusing on the many ways in which life could suck but doesn't, e.g.:

[http://www.zoriah.net/blog/2009/04/guest-
photographerphotojo...](http://www.zoriah.net/blog/2009/04/guest-
photographerphotojournalist-gmb-akash-child-labor.html)

(If by chance you live in Bangladesh, then I'm afraid I am at a loss.)

3\. This is kind of hard to describe without making it sound like new-age
bullshit. What you want to do is to induce a sort of deliberate schizophrenia,
to separate out two parts of your brain: the part that feels depressed and
wants to stop the pain, and the part that recognizes that you can't or won't
do it because the depressed part is not really thinking straight. For some
people, simply going this far is enough. Just recognizing that emotional pain
is something that happens _to_ you, just like physical pain, can sometimes be
enough to get through it. If not, then you have to engage in some deliberate
mental exercises to help your deliberative self gain enough control over your
emotional self to keep from hurting too badly or doing yourself physical harm.
The key is to recognize that being depressed and/or suicidal is not an
indication of any kind of personal flaw or failure, any more than having a
backache. It's just something that's gone wrong with your wiring.

All this assumes, of course, that you don't have some legitimate reason to
feel depressed, in which case you need to figure out what that is and deal
with it, or that you don't have some physiological problem that needs
pharmaceutical help, in which case a doctor can help.

Good luck.

------
superk
This is not serious, useful advice like the other posters (and pls listen to
them)... but I always thought, if you are considering suicide, why not fake
your death? All the good stuff like re-birth, freedom, and what not... without
the bad stuff.. like being dead forever.

~~~
timwiseman
Well, if you have life insurance that constitutes insurance fraud. If you have
people that care about you (and its probably safe to say virtually everyone
does), you have just done a lot of harm to them. If you have responsibilities,
this probably means you are abandoning them.

If you succeeded in faking your death (very hard to do in modern society, I
would suspect) you may gain some benefit from it, but you will cause problems
for a lot of other people. Not to mention the problems you bring on yourself
if you are caught could be very substantial.

(I thought it was a funny post though, even if attached to a serious topic. In
all seriousness, if you are having suicidal thoughts, seek help.)

<Edited for length>

------
kaens
I too sometimes have bouts of suicidal ideation. When I was younger, they were
much worse/more frequent than they are now. In general, the realization that
death is, at least currently, inevitable has helped me deal with them.

If your suicidal thoughts are rooted in personal suffering, the realization
that you have control over how you perceive events can be helpful. Instead of
having to walk in a blizzard, you're getting to feel stuff you normally don't.

I'm not a spiritual person by any means, but I think that realizing that
desire and suffering are intertwined is a good thing to realize.

If your suicidal ideation is caused by a more existential type of angst, I can
recommend "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Camus. It helped me come to terms with the
absurdity of existence more than just about anything else, but what worked for
me may not work for you.

Other than advice already stated in this thread, that's about all I can offer
without knowing you or your situation.

One more thing: your life will change. It may get "better", it may get
"worse", but it will not stagnate. You are ever-changing, and will be until
you end, and at the moment it is a certainty that you _will_ end. I, and most
others here I'm sure, don't recommend rushing it along -- even if your
experience of consciousness is ridiculously hard to bear right now, there's no
way to know if it will always be that way without living, and as far as I can
tell it is most often not always that way.

------
metamemetics
In order of importance:

1) Social: Get out and be around other people. If you have a laptop, do your
work at coffee shops. It might boost your productivity, too.

2) Health: Use a nutrient calculator for a week and calculate if your typical
diet is malnourished in Vitamin
A,B1,B2,B3,B4,B5,B6,B9,B12,C,D,E,Calcium,Zinc,Iron,Magnesium,or Manganese and
you are eating enough complete proteins that have all essential amino acids.

3) Thoughts: Eliminate negative thought cycles. Everyone gets stuck in them,
they are basically feedback loops you need to cut. The fastest way to do this
IMO is to learn any rudimentary meditation techniques and take a serotogenic
such as Mescaline, 2c-i, Psylocibin, or Prozac\SSRIs. The simplest mediation
technique is to pick something such as the sensation of breathing through your
nose to focus your attention on. Then when you notice yourself having a
thought, simply acknowledge its existence without assigning negative or
positive value to it (which we all normally do) and return your focus to the
sensation of breathing through your nose (or whatever sensation or image you
chose to focus on). In a meditative experience you're basically supposed to
have the slight sensation of being an observer in you're own body,
notice\gain-awareness of the type of thoughts you have everyday, and realize
you have complete control over it and can actually think about anything you
want.

------
popschedule
I've gone through this too off and on for as long as I can remember. Mainly it
was just the fascination with the thought of what I would experience after
death. To be honest if you catch yourself thinking this way it can be scary
like you said. I have just decided to look at it and laugh, and it makes it
not so terrifying, maintain a sense of humor. I would never want to take my
own life- it's probably the lamest ending to any persons life. But I have to
admit I think this way a lot. Also, happens when watching movies where people
die/get killed in strange ways. My mother passed away in November from
pneumonia and now I am constantly paranoid about my health. I've had some
serious panic attacks as a result.

Remedies:

1\. Go to church. Listen to a podcast on Buddhism, or find something to
believe in. 2\. Write down or look in the mirror and tell yourself all the
positive things about yourself. 3\. Laugh about death, have a sense of humor,
choose to live, anyone can die. 4\. Be different. Do everything differently in
your life, wear your underwear outside your pants, listen to music you
normally hate. Get outside of being ordinary. It will loosen you up, and give
you new perspectives.

------
runjake
Exercise helps, the more intense the better.

------
scotty79
Try St. John's Wort.

This [http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-
supplem...](http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/)
indicates that it's provably effective against mild depression.

I had a suicidal ideation when I was young but I realized that no matter how
worthless I feel dying is the most dumbest, useless, worthless thing I can do.
The ultimate loss. Ultimate fail. And no one would care so theres no epic in
this. Also it would hurt only my mom who is the person I am most reluctant to
hurt.

Plus even if I don't see any future for myself I am extremely curious what
will future bring to the world.

Of course maybe I didn't actually learned anything and it's just my mind
chemistry changing due to growing up.

------
mindcrime
Yeah, I came pretty close (I think) to deciding to kill myself back in 1996.
After that I went a long time with few - or no - suicidal thoughts, but every
once in a while over the past couple of years I found a few of those thoughts
creeping in again. I _doubt_ I'll ever actually go through with it, but who
can predict these things.

Probably the biggest thing(s) I've learned that help:

1\. Fish-oil is considered to have an anti-depressant effect. And of all the
"folk remedies" you sometimes hear about, this one has a fair amount of
legitimate scientific research backing it up. I've been really depressed
before, took a couple of fish-oil capsules and felt more cheerful within an
hour or two.

2\. Exercise does help for me. Just being "in the zone" working hard in and of
itself helps, as does the "runner's high" effect. Plus it's a chance to plug
my headphones in, put on some heavy metal and tune the rest of the world out
and just jam. Trail running is fun and it's great exercise. I highly recommend
it, along with mountain biking. But pick your own favorite.

3\. Pay attention to the dialogue that's going on in your head. When you find
yourself thinking "bad" thoughts, ask yourself "Wait, why am I thinking this?
This is stupid, I don't want to think this crap, I'm going to think happy
thoughts now." It sounds weird, but this kind of "meta" thinking does work
(well, for me anyway). I was inspired by some stuff on CBT (Cognitive
Behavioral Therapy), so you may find reading up on that to be useful.

There are a zillion books on dealing with this kind of stuff in the self-help
section at Barnes & Noble or Borders. I have a couple, but I basically bought
them, set them aside, and never read them. But you might find it useful to go
in one day, browse that section, take a couple of books and go sit in the cafe
and skim / read a little...you _may_ find something useful.

4\. Studying Zen Buddhism has also been helpful to me. I don't consider myself
a Buddhist per-se, but I think their way of thinking to be useful. I'm still
trying to adapt to it, but just reading Zen literature usually makes me feel
better.

5\. Eliminate negative influences as much as you can. If you have "toxic"
people in your life (wife, girlfriend, friend, co-worker, boss, whatever) find
some way to get away from them. The last thing you need is negative people
dragging you down, or influencing you in a negative way.

And while I've never done it myself, a support group of some sort might be
useful. Even if it's online and not in meatspace. If you believe - as BobbyH
says below - that suicidal thoughts are a symptom of depression, you might
find the /r/depression sub-reddit to be useful. I browse it every once in a
while and some good stuff gets posted sometimes.

And if all else fails, my default advice is "get drunk and listen to Motley
Crue." \m/

Edit: also, if you ever just want to talk, feel free to email me. My email is
in my profile.

Links:

[http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/fish-oil-to-
treat-d...](http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/fish-oil-to-treat-
depression)

[http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Health/story?id=129498&page=1](http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Health/story?id=129498&page=1)

[http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fish-oil-
supplements/AN0139...](http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fish-oil-
supplements/AN01399)

<http://www.reddit.com/r/depression>

~~~
anonymator
In 2008 I attempted suicide.

I have dealt with suicidal ideation off & on since I was around 7 years old.
My brother committed suicide, and mental illness (including depression) runs
in my family. I'm not crazy though, I swear :-)

I've read a number of people say things like, "It's completely normal. You
just have to deal with it like everyone else." That's wrong, and really,
really dangerous advice. Suicidal ideation is very different from feeling
'blue' every now and then. Suicidal ideation is an indication of something
more serious, and if left unchecked can get much worse (did you read my
opening line?). Not everyone can get out of depression on their own or with
'natural remedies'. Depression is an illness just like diabetes or
hypertension. Sometimes medication is necessary to get better.

I'm glad to hear that you have an appointment with a doctor. That's an
important step to take, even if you don't start medication or therapy. After
my suicide attempt I saw a psychiatrist 2-3 times and never took medication or
did any therapy, but it was honestly very helpful.

I wanted to say that point number 3 above is a huge key to getting better.
Remember this: Thoughts lead to emotions, emotions lead to actions. If you
don't want to commit suicide (the action), prevent what comes before it
(emotions, thoughts). Don't _think_ about suicide and you'll avoid _feeling_
like suicide is the answer. It's hard, but it gets easier over time.

What also helped me--which my psychiatrist recommended--was to create and
follow a daily routine. I freelanced from home at the time and found myself
with a very erratic sleep pattern, I didn't exercise, and I rarely left my
apartment. I got a part-time job that got me out of the house, stopped staying
up until 2, 3, 4 in the morning, started exercising, and forced myself to do
more socially with my friends. Now, I'm happy and productive.

As a side note, if you're interested in trying any natural remedies for
depression, there are basically three options: 1) SAM-e, 2) 5-HTP, 3) St.
John's Wort. I have listed them in the order of their generally accepted
effectiveness for treating depression and, how would you say, time before
affect? St. John's Wort typically takes 2-3 weeks (IIRC) before you start to
feel it's effects. SAM-e is supposed to work with in a few days.

Hang in there man. Things are never as bad as you may think, and they will get
better in time.

~~~
mindcrime

      I've read a number of people say things like, "It's 
      completely normal. You just have to deal with it like 
      everyone else." That's wrong, and really, really 
      dangerous advice. Suicidal ideation is very different 
      from feeling 'blue' every now and then. Suicidal ideation 
      is an indication of something more serious, and if left 
      unchecked can get much worse (did you read my opening 
      line?). Not everyone can get out of depression on their 
      own or with 'natural remedies'. Depression is an illness 
      just like diabetes or hypertension. Sometimes medication 
      is necessary to get better.
    

Er, FWIW, I wasn't saying "just deal with it." Just giving the OP some
thoughts based on my own experiences. The only reason(s) I didn't list "Go see
a professional" is because A. I never did (and doubt I ever will) and B. it
had already been said by others in this thread.

But yes, I would certainly advocate that anyone who has serious questions
about their mental state see a professional therapist.

    
    
      I'm glad to hear that you have an appointment with a 
      doctor. That's an important step to take, even if you 
      don't start medication or therapy. 
    
    

Doctor? Not me... maybe that bit was meant for somebody else? I don't go to
doctors unless I see large amounts of my own blood or there's a bone sticking
through the skin. :-)

    
    
      As a side note, if you're interested in trying any 
      natural remedies for depression, there are basically 
      three options: 1) SAM-e, 2) 5-HTP, 3) St. John's Wort. I 
      have listed them in the order of their generally accepted 
      effectiveness for treating depression and, how would you 
      say, time before affect? St. John's Wort typically takes 
      2-3 weeks (IIRC) before you start to feel it's effects. 
      SAM-e is supposed to work with in a few days.
    

Interesting stuff. What's SAM? Never heard of it. 5HTP is interesting, but
from what I've seen there isn't a lot of research on it. I used to drink an
"energy drink" before my workouts that had 5HTP in it, but it's hard to
quantify how much (if at all) it helped my mood.

~~~
anonymator
Originally my comment was in reply to yours because I was going to build on
your third point, controlling your thoughts. I ended up talking about a few
other things, though, so I can see why some of my comments where unclear.

The comment about 'just dealing with it' wasn't directed towards you.

The comment about seeing a doctor was meant for the OP.

Perhaps I should have commented on the original post and not in reply to your
comment.

SAM is S-Adenosyl Methionine
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Adenosyl_methionine#Polyamine...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Adenosyl_methionine#Polyamine_biosynthesis)).
"SAM is required for cellular growth and repair. It is also involved in the
biosynthesis of several hormones and neurotransmitters that affect mood, such
as dopamine and serotonin."

I tried 5-HTP for a short while and felt like I had a very slight improvement
in mood. I was quite depressed at the time though, so I doubt a dietary
supplement would have cut it anyway.

------
dedward
Don't freak out, and seek therapy - and don't get bummed out about the fact
that you are seeking therapy. That's a good thing.

We could all guess a million causes for this (drugs/alcohol/etc) - but in the
end it doesn't matter. You've noticed something going on in your head, and you
feel that it's not right.... so go see a doctor. or two. or three.

This by no way means you're headed towards offing yourself or going nuts. But
still, see a doctor - if for no other reason than you've observed a disturbing
and sudden change in your mental state that you can't explain. That's enough
of a reason right there.

------
gcheong
Please do seek out a therapist. Specifically I would recommend one trained in
Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, a mindfulness-based cognitive behavioral
therapy. If you can't find one, you can still explore it on your own with
whatever therapy you happen to choose. Here are a couple resources explaining
ACT:

<http://contextualpsychology.org/act_for_the_public>

<http://www.thehappinesstrap.com/>

------
EvanK
The first thing, obvious as it may seem, is to see a professional for help. I
had a similar situation and I was hesitant to talk to anyone about it, and
even more hesitant to start taking any medication, but I got therapy and went
on antidepressants for a couple months, and it truly did help.

------
asdasdasdasd2
You need to see a therapist that you trust.

Failing that, please please talk to your friends or even just acquaintances!

Finally, <http://www.reddit.com/r/suicidewatch> is a good resource for you...
that's a very caring and useful community.

------
adammichaelc
Your problem is no-doubt multi-faceted, and IMO there's no universal answer
that works for everybody, and you need to remember to take _every_ answer you
get here with a grain of salt. Take what applies to you, and leave the rest.

I would recommend immediately reaching out in person to friends or family that
you trust. If you have nobody that you trust with this, reach out to a suicide
hotline. There's a national one at 800-273-8255. If you forget the number just
google "national suicide hotline" and it should be a google-supplied first
search result.

After reaching out for help, I think you should focus on treating the
underlying depression that is leading to the suicidal thoughts. Here are a few
things you might try:

1\. Get your vitamin d level checked. This might sound like a funny thing to
do, but many studies have shown links between vitamin d
insufficiency/deficiency and depression. The specific test you want is the
"25-hydroxy vitamin-d test." Some 60% of Americans have inadequate levels, and
that number goes up the darker your skin gets. For hackers and other
knowledge-workers, my guess is that the number is much higher, because we are
inside all day. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/vitamin-d-why-
yo...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/vitamin-d-why-you-are-
pro_b_585311.html)

2\. Exercise. Even if it's just walking around the block with your girlfriend,
or brother, or dog, or mom, or alone. If there's a sport you used to play but
don't anymore, pick it up. Climb rocks, or fence, or box, or ski. Dance, or
fly kites, or garden, or whatever. But whatever you do, get physically active.
Your body needs that, especially when you are feeling down. You would be
surprised how much better you feel after some good physical activity.

3\. Take things off your plate. You are not a machine. Shoot, even machines
need rest. Don't take too much on your plate. Remember that even (especially)
the most successful people take breaks and prioritize.

4\. Remember that you aren't alone and you aren't crazy. Life throws us crap
like this to make us stronger, and so we can relate to others' suffering.
Remember that there is purpose in all your suffering.

5\. Love your life, poor as it is. The journey is 9/10 of the fun. Laugh at it
when it sucks, and realize that it's not as bad as it seems. Also don't
acquire the "if only" disease. "if only i had this, then I'd be happy...."
Acheiving milestones is awesome, and feels great, but then you go back to the
journey -- the 9/10. Enjoy it all, and live in the now.

------
cema
Most of the comments here are good and helpful, but -- go talk to a shrink
immediately. Like, right now.

------
vishaldpatel
Watch more movies and listen to more music that makes you feel good about you.

------
jeb
Break out of the system you are in. Get yourself into dangerous situations.

------
demonwatch
Good question, and useful timing. Tonight's a worse night than usual for me.

As a survivor, I'm pretty much living with these things all the time. I find
it hard to believe that I'm able to be safe. I cope ironically through how my
suicidal thoughts manifest. For me, they are normally about self-destruction
and obliteration, not death, and that's pretty hard to do yourself.

Suicidal thoughts are not the whole story, though. It's easy to focus on the
big dramatics, and ignore the greater effects. I persistantly have trouble
sleeping, and depression and self-loathing have consistantly been a barrier
for me. If it were not for my problems, I would have certainly got much more
than a pass degree. I'm not coding as much as I would like, as I spend a lot
of my free time managing my headspace rather than my passions.

Something that helps when in better moods is to remember, though, that I have
got a degree. And I worked part time during university, too. I had to act as
carer to my ex during that. I ran some pretty amazing student societies, and
have done some big things. And now I'm a manager in a huge IT company, working
on some impressive things. I'm learning to drive pretty fast. And I'm a trans
woman.

You see, it's not as simple as saying "go see a shrink". I can't go to the NHS
with my problems, as if I were to tell them that I see things (hence the
throwaway account name), medical assistance for trans matters would be
threatened. Drugs too are not great, for two reasons - they don't work, and
they don't mix well with reality issues.

I hope to be able to afford private counselling soon, as this isn't that much
fun. But I am functional at the moment, and I have amazing friends and family.

The biggest problem? That these issues just are not talked about. The media
says that it's only "crazy people" who see things, people who stab others and
get locked up, or people who can't work and function in the real world at all.
Yet I'm sure there are many more just like me, who like me sit at work, being
productive, all the whilst being convinced that they are being physically
attacked. I'm having to use a throwaway, as I'm only 26, and have one hell of
a distinctive name. We can't talk about this sort of stuff, and this stigma
makes it worse.

So sometimes, to help with the thoughts, I write about them and share my
experiences with others.

Other things I have found to help: * Stop drinking. Drinking makes me
extremely depressive normally.

* Call amazing friends. I've got friends that are happy spending hours on the phone just making silly noises at me. It's extremely reassuring, and they have ordered (this is useful!) me to call them anytime I want or need. When I don't touch base with close friends and family regularly, my headspace tends to get even darker.

* Safe company. The useful thing about being in a number of minority groups is the easy access to a number of safe spaces and people. Even if I don't talk about these things with them, getting into an LGBT space, or a furmeet lets me feel amongst people who understand. And perhaps, now hackernews might be added ;)

* Comfort food. Chocolate, ice cream and cake, need I say more? :P

* Exercise. Damn I need to get out more, I love running and it feels amazing. And the fact that I can walk five miles in 70 minutes is something I should be more proud of!

* Eat right. Skipping meals really doesn't help at all, and I get grouchy without a balanced diet.

* Do something stimulating but not stressful. Having a new exciting thing to work on keeps me pleased for days - and better still, my bosses have noticed this!

(email: demonwatch(at)hushmail.com)

------
zackattack
This sucks. I feel for you. My heart goes out to you.

------
webginja
Therapy bud. Therapy.

------
heatdeath
It's perfectly normal. You just have to deal with it like everyone else does.

Depression is mainly alleviated by doing something productive almost every
day. That way, your night feels good because you got something done, and so
does your next morning.

------
ashitvora
Open up your favorite browser (if possible not IE coz I hate IE). go to
google.com and search for "Suicide".

Call the very first 800 number you see.

Simple!!!

Take it easy man!!!

Think about the life people are spending in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq. I
am sure you would be living a way better life.

