
Tesla now worth half GM's value - gibsonf1
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/22/BUU117O7UC.DTL
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mdasen
This isn't saying that Tesla is worth much, just that GM is worth next to
nothing. At this point, it looks like a foregone conclusion that GM
shareholders will be wiped out in a month or two. GM's obligations seem worth
more than its assets and its costs (parts, labor, etc.) are greater than its
revenues which makes it unlikely they shall ever meet those obligations in the
future.

To be honest, I'm surprised GM is worth a whole billion dollars. All of the
plans - from the President's plan to award 50% of the company to the treasury,
40% to the UAW, and 10% to creditors to bankruptcy which would see all common
shares voided - would see any stake in common stock worth nothing. Are there
people who think GM is going to get a scenario where they are able to pay off
their creditors, the UAW, and the government in order to avoid wiping out
common shareholders?

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mynameishere
GM's value is zero. The stock price represents a nervous dance between shorts
and longs who try to force sqeezes. (And I suppose there are gamblers who are
betting that the government will bail them out without a ch 11 style reorg.)

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medearis
If GM's value speculative then Telsa's valuation is completely pulled out of
thin air. Just a few months ago Tesla was actually losing money on every car
they sold. Now they're asking for government money to stay afloat and
promising a 50k sedan for the masses. Let me get this straight... at the
moment, they cant build a miata sized roadster with a sparse interior on an
existing platform for less than 90k, but in 2 years they're going to have a
profitable full-sized sedan to go up against cars like the Lexus GS, BMW 5 and
Mercedes E selling for half that?

I love Tesla, but if I had to place my bets, I'd think it more likely that
you'll be able to buy a Corvette in 10 years than a Tesla roadster.

~~~
gojomo
A value "pulled out of thin air" is still better than "almost certainly zero
via bankruptcy". And even if Corvettes rather than Teslas are still on sale 10
years from now, that might not mean any value flows to current GM
stockholders.

The most likely discontinuity ahead for GM is a zeroing-out of all current
stockholders. For Tesla, there are certain discontinuities -- such as
acquisition for technology -- that pay off stockholders even if the nameplate
disappears.

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chollida1
> "It's sort of amusing," remarked Daimler co-founder, Martin Eberhard.

He's actually the cofounder of Tesla. There's a reason the SF Gate is going
out of business:(

~~~
timr
I'm pretty sure that the SF Chronicle isn't facing bankruptcy because they
occasionally make mistakes.

After all, _everyone_ knows that the internet is a 100% factual replacement
for newspapers.

~~~
chollida1
> I'm pretty sure that the SF Chronicle isn't facing bankruptcy because they
> occasionally make mistakes.

Agreed, but shoddy reporting and a lack of fact checking certainly has helped
lead it down the path towards bankruptcy.

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ssharp
Why do people insist on making these stupid comparisons? It reminds me of how
drama-queenish techcrunch was when the markets were free falling. GOOGLE LOSES
HALF ITS VALUE!!!! it's a pointless exercise. market cap isn't the be all and
end all of a company's value. And the valuation agreed upon by a single
investor and a company is even less of an indicator of that company's real
value.

~~~
vaksel
yeah its like that old idea that Facebook had 16 billion dollar valuation
which supposedly made them larger than Ford.

GM's Corvette's Brand Value is probably more than Tesla's actual value.

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aka-
GM sold 8.35 million vehicles last year. Tesla less than 200. How surreal.

~~~
gojomo
You can't make up a loss on every vehicle through volume, except maybe by
being "too big to fail". And even that is unlikely to help the GM stockholders
(as opposed to the staff and unions and warrantyholders).

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kirse
How many Tesla cars does America drive (in total?)

That and does anyone know what Tesla's current net profit figures are? I know
it's a private company but I'm wondering if anyone has general figures.

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nazgulnarsil
quick, bury this article! we can't let people know that if giant companies
collapse that new companies will compete with new and/or improved products!

If everyone gets wind of this we won't be able to justify massive bailouts
anymore...

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derrickc
Bad analysis - can't forget $54 billion in debt. Minus $11 billion in cash
plus the equity, so enterprise value of GM is $44 billion according to the
latest financials.

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ckinnan
Welcome to the rotten fruits of crony capitalism 2.0. The millionaires who own
Tesla got a $350 million loan from the U.S. government this year. Taxpayers
only get downside, while a bunch of insiders and now a foreign carmaker
capture all the upside.

<http://www.redherring.com/Home/25831>

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noonespecial
As opposed to what? The millionaires in charge of GM that got billions? Sounds
like Uncle Sam is just hedging his automotive bet. If I didn't know any better
I'd say that (cough) _made sense_.

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jam
I'd rather own Tesla.

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phoxix2
Valuating the mess that is GM ... now there is something worthy of a Doctorate
from Wharton, heh

