
On TikTok, There Is No Time - imartin2k
https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-time/
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imgabe
> Grosser also points out that unlike Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, and
> Facebook, TikTok prevents users from keeping track of the time by covering
> the clock displayed at the top of their iPhones.

Oh, just like how casinos don't have any clocks or windows. I guess it's a
step towards social media admitting that it's just there to milk users without
providing anything of value in the same way a slot machine does.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
I don't gamble or particularly use social media, but surely these things
provide entertainment? Or does that have no value?

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kdmccormick
That's a philosophical question, and I think most agree that for their
personal definiton of "value", it depends on the type of entertainment.

To build on the slot machine analogy, do you think an RNG that occasionally
gives you money (but generally takes it) in a windowless, clockless room has
value? And is that value worth the issues caused by them? Does the answer
differ for social media?

I don't know the answer, but I think they're questions worth asking.

~~~
monkeynotes
Depends on the person in the Casino. Some people go in, feed the slots a
couple of times for the thrill of what could be and then they move on somewhat
entertained by the experience. Other people get addicted to that thrill and
their lives suffer as a result.

Same goes for many things in life, not just casinos. It isn't simple.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
That may be disingenuous. Casinos rely almost entirely upon the latter
category of patrons for continued existance. It matters what the demographic
is. Something about the instigator's intent can be discerned from that.

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cstuder
As a sidenote: I'm always annoyed at technical articles and pages on the web
without timestamps/dates/any hint that allows you to discern the age of the
information.

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melvinroest
I always go to Web Archive to get a guestimate. It also helps because you can
see how an article evolved.

~~~
cstuder
Oh, great tip! Thank you!

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chvid
TikTok is brilliant design. Very well done how they break with “conventional”
thinking in media. For example that it should be orientated around discussion
(conflict), followers, novelty etc.

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tekkk
I dont quite understand. Could you explain further?

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chvid
In journalism a good story is new, it has an element of conflict and it
concerns someone relatable (someone famous or someone close to you). That sort
of thinking caries over to a lot of modern social media.

TikTok breaks that. They don't want conflict. They don't particular care about
your social network. And even if stuff is new.

They will show me for example some random girl dancing (not particular) well,
some koreans doing a magic trick, something local. Lots of bad jokes.

You are basically playing with an algorithm; they obviously have some way of
measuring feedback. But everything is kept in a certain mood: fast, youthful,
cheerful. And also amateurish which just makes you want to participate.

It is quite different from Facebook, Twitter and Instragram.

And I think it is a major evolution of social media.

~~~
tekkk
Ahh I see. That sounds refreshing indeed. The constant conflict in every media
is really quite annoying and I imagine I'm not the only one who thinks so.

~~~
_nalply
However they do what everybody does: try to addict consumers.

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cerealbad
there's content creation - which seems to be reducing in length of time.
(tiktok is just a vine reboot).

and content curation - which is about maximizing viewer-curator interaction
(websites like twitch where an intimate experience can be created between one
streamer and an audience numbering in the tens of thousands) through chat-
streamer and chat-chat feedback loops and the democratic curation of of
content on other platforms being re-broadcast and experienced in that shared
environment. the most successful streamers are on for 6 to 12 hours a day,
every day, and they essentially play the role of friend-babysitter-curator-
community leader. often the 'content' being curated is pseudo-creator content,
broadcasting walking through a city, videogames being played or scripted
podcast/talent shows, but the niche of shared watching is growing. both re-
watching of other short content created on the same platform, and long-form
shared watching of sponsored documentaries, viewer donated video clips and
even loops of watching others watching others. a type of 'best of the internet
today' interactive and in real time.

this tracks the emergence of reality internet, where it becomes impossible to
distinguish between an online and offline person, as online time increases.
very similar to what andy kaufman was doing, tangentially related to the
society of the spectacle and neil postman's critique of modern technology
becoming a prison; fatalistic soliloquy on the doomed nature of mankind,
trapped in self-reflection about nothing.

the outside becomes another experience on the inside of a screen. the internet
is an extremely potent example of an old type of addiction, the 'information
drug'. i often find myself listening to things online between 3x and 4x speed,
the spread of information has greatly reduced the depth and quality, i might
spend 20 minutes researching an the editorial board and journalist of a news
piece after a brief 10-20 second glance over the actual piece. heavy users
might be the first to see the fraying edges of the future to come. confusion,
apathy, opportunistic tyranny to fill the void.

~~~
big_chungus
My word, but it must be awfully sad to have such an outlook.

Let's take the other side of what you just said. More information today is
available than at any other time in human history. Their are those who choose
to spend time in a futile fashion, and there are those who choose to learn.
Perceptions of which is which vary person-to-person. For instance, I read HN
because there are a lot of very smart, technically-savvy people. Others might
believe it a waste of time. Maybe someone spends time on pinterest, but wishes
to be an interior decorator and does further homework on the pictures found. I
think most of us would agree tick tock is an abject waste of time, but so
what? Adults have been watching tv long before "kids these days".

Now let's consider the benefits that the information age brings. A life
expectancy double what we might achieve in the wild, plentiful food, a good
job, and so much more. Though some people waste their time, all this
information has opened greater orders of learning to those with the
inclination.

On the whole, I believe "modern technology" to be a marvelous innovation,
rather than a prison. While it certainly ought to remain open to critique,
this sort of nihilistic opinion has never made sense.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
But the internet accelerates drug-innovation and drug-delivery to the speed of
… well, of the internet. Easy to throw out 'kids these days' but its actually
a different thing (at least in quantity if not quality), and kids are actually
responding to it poorly.

Outdoor time has dropped precipitously. Coordination and physical agility are
reputed to have dropped. Social interaction has been reduced to worse than
sound bytes.

Despite its good intentions, the internet is fabulously addictive. This should
not be brushed aside Pollyanna style.

~~~
ff317
Right, this is what I fear somewhat as well, especially more on the mental
than physical side. I'm very cognizant of the fact that people have complained
about the latest tech ruining society since the time of Socrates (who
apparently railed against how the written language was ruining everything vs
the oral memorization style of teaching and learning that came before), and
yet we're all still here and doing ok.

But that being said, my personal observations of the communications and social
interactions of kids and very young adults these days scares me a bit because
it seriously lacks depth. People are growing up optimizing their behavior and
brains (including socially) for the internet of memes, soundbites, and
impermanence, and not for the "real" human world of meaningful and fruitful
long-term human connections.

I'm not a believer in an artificial future singularity point, but this stuff
sure looks a lot like what a singularity-believer would expect: the early
stages of a trend away from humans as individual thinkers with higher-
bandwidth/quality interpersonal interactions, and towards interactions that
are very light and content-free because they're just the unthinking synapse
firings of some larger emergent consciousness in the form of overlapping
memetic mobs of humans. Perhaps this has a role in explaining political
polarization/isolation as well?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Wow that's hugely optimistic to imaging anything like 'an emergent
consciousness...overlapping memetic mobs'. More like, ignorant masses all
reacting emotionally with no emergent anything.

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Izmaki
I could barely read the page due to adds and banners. I left again.

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EasyTiger_
I don't know how people tolerate the web without ad-block

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UserIsUnused
Temporarily, eventual all social media evolves into the same thing.

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curiousgal
A CLT[0] for social media platforms. Nice.

0.[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem)

~~~
UserIsUnused
Also this[0]: >Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those
programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.

0\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski)

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jeromebaek
Sounds like Hegel's (incoherent) idea that China has space but no time.

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kbos87
Use TikTok for a few days and I can now imagine a world where people are
kidnapped or exploited while singularly focused on and distracted by a screen.
It’s scary. The fact that it’s a Chinese owned company is even scarier.

