
Apple’s China Problem Is That Local Phones Are Good – And Cheap - i2rohan
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-24/apple-s-china-problem-is-that-local-phones-are-good-and-cheap
======
nimos
I think the problem is far worse for high end Android manufactures. Apple at
least has a unique ecosystem that serves as a point of differentiation. What
does Samsung have to differentiate itself? A logo?

Apple is a luxury brand and people are willing to pay for luxury goods. If you
amortize the additional cost of an iPhone over a year or two it's really not
that expensive from a luxury/status good standpoint. Less expensive than
visiting Starbucks 5 days a week.

People need to be able to justify that cost though and with Apple they can
because it is a substantively different product and integrates well into the
entire Apple product line. What can premium brand Android purchasers say?

~~~
randiantech
Android has reached a level of maturity that makes comparison with Apple
ecosystem neglectable nowadays; simply its no longer a selling point compared
to previous years. Also, high end Android phones were able to introduce new
technologies to the mobile market much faster that Apple (in example: VR).
Just anecdotical, Im a Windows Phone user, but due to R&D work I use Apple and
Android devices regularly. That unique, luxury feeling of Apple phones is no
longer that visible as it was a couple of years ago.

~~~
erichocean
> _Android has reached a level of maturity that makes comparison with Apple
> ecosystem neglectable nowadays; simply its no longer a selling point
> compared to previous years._

This spirit of this comment has been replicated _verbatim_ every year for the
last 5 years by some random HN commenter.

I guess, eventually, it might be true.

~~~
bgroins
Rather than dismiss the comment outright, could you elaborate on what part of
it is untrue?

~~~
bitwize
UI jank, or lack thereof on iOS.

Security, or lack thereof on Android.

Relative size of app ecosystems.

Whether devs can make money selling apps (hint: it's much harder on Android).

Fragmentation.

Etc.

~~~
eonw
saying android is much harder is not factually correct, it varies greatly by
the niche of the app/game. some do much better on android then ios store.

~~~
dntrkv
It is factually correct, just because there might be some niche apps that
perform better on Android does not negate the fact that, overall, the App
Store generates far more revenue than the Play Store.

[http://9to5mac.com/2016/01/20/app-store-ios-downloads-vs-
and...](http://9to5mac.com/2016/01/20/app-store-ios-downloads-vs-android-
revenue/)

------
chvid
It is just Apple's general problem isn't it?

The cheaper phones are really good now. And if you are asking a premium you
need to be significant better.

As I see it iPhone 4 was a lot better than the competition where as the
current lineup is not.

Simply relying on expanding the market (selling more in China + other emerging
markets) won't do the trick as they are not going to sell with their old big
margins unless they are a lot better than the competition.

~~~
simonh
People have been saying that about the Mac since the 1980s. Consistently high
quality and premium features and services sell product.

Apple doesn't need to 'rely' on selling more into China. If they end up locked
out of the China market completely, they'll still do fine. As it is, they have
a I've premium niche over there and will do just fine.

~~~
digi_owl
And marketing. Leave a TV on between shows, and an Apple ad is likely to crop
up more often than not.

~~~
stouset
This is advertising, not marketing.

Marketing, specifically understanding the market for their products, is
something Apple does insanely well compared to other companies.

------
dingleberry
xiaomi phone is capable to block mobile data (and wifi) on app level. Say,
gmail can access data on wifi only, chrome on mobile only and whatsapp on both
mobile and wifi. It's a finer control than disabling background data.

Before xiaomi, I used asus and it eats mobile data like crazy with no control
other than airplane mode.

bonus is that xiami has finer permission control too on app level. I can
disallow whatsapp to access my contact and camera, for example. whatsapp can
still function; however, it shows phone numbers instead of names in chats.

so even though xiaomi is cheaper, it's more powerful to use. definitely great
user experience, easily beats any, more expensive android devices i ever use:
motorolla, asus, samsung, etc

~~~
Grazester
You can do this with stock Android also

[http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/prevent-any-app-using-mobile-
da...](http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/prevent-any-app-using-mobile-data-
android/)

------
dingleberry
I had motorolla, asus, and more high end phones but i'm a happy $120 xiaomi
redmi owner here.

the problem with iphone (&ipad) is that apple forces some limitations, like
say... no sd card. my sister -- who has ipad -- always have trouble moving
files to non-apple devices

i used to say "i don't own iphone, i can't help you", just like when someone
asks for general computer problem, equivalently as saying "i don't use
windows, sorry"

now i don't get apple related questions because everyone i know uses android,
either as primary or secondary phone.

------
iamleppert
In another 10 years the iPhone will be about as exciting as a refrigerator,
even in the US. Innovation has slowed greatly on the phone product such that
they need to start focusing more and more on vendor lock-in to maintain their
monopoly.

------
legulere
How do the huawei P9 and oppo R9 have almost double the battery capacity than
the iPhone 6s, when they're around the same weight?

------
Nokinside
Good documentary: Shenzhen: The Silicon Valley of Hardware (Full Documentary)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY)

------
kraig911
Both Apple and Samsung really need something to differentiate premium beyond
color finishes and brand.

Either add some premium service like some sort of concierge on call, or I
dunno some premium UI interface that is definitely measurably better then
there is no reason to buy a more expensive phone. App's are all starting to
look the same and it doesn't matter anymore. I'm a long time iOS user because
I started that way and while

I love the platform it's only because of all the apps i've bought that keeps
me on it. While I hate using android I'd probably learn to deal with it's
nuisances for a difference of $200.

~~~
Someone1234
> premium UI interface that is definitely measurably better

Samsung has tried that to death. It has had the opposite effect, instead of
people seeing the additional functionality as a benefit, it is criticised as
clutter (and in fairness some of it does slow the device).

Worse still Samsung turns around and blames their "premium features" for why
their phones lose software updates sooner. And then people see more benefit in
a cheap phone with virgin Android then a premium phone with supposed premium
features, since updates last longer and the phones are borderline disposable.

~~~
JohnTHaller
Unfortunately, Samsung didn't wind up designing a better UI, they wound up
designing a complicated one with dozens of features that no one wanted or used
instead of taking the standard Android UI and adding a handful of premium
features really well (like split screen multi-tasking pre-Android 7). The mess
of features and objectively poor design made for an annoying UI for users
along with a long, long time for Samsung to get updates out if they got them
out at all. I had a Galaxy S4 and won't be buying Samsung again.

------
kyriakos
This is a problem for other manufacturers too. Medium range phones are
marginally worse than flagships to the everyday user. Things like 1080p vs 2K
screen make little difference to users but increase the cost substantially.

------
raverbashing
Something that the Chinese market seems to like also are _big phones_

See models from Xiaomi, or even the Asus ones, it seems the bigger the better.

I already dislike how big my Moto G3 is, but it seems they're fine with it

~~~
sdegutis
You know how in parodies 15 years ago, they made fun of how cell phones were
getting smaller and smaller? They stopped that trend about 5 or 6 years ago
and started getting bigger and bigger.

I only looked on from the outside as an observer, since I don't have the money
to throw away on replacing my phone ever 2 years like everyone else seems to.

But now, with the iPhone SE, they're reversing that trend _again_.

It reminds me of that scene in Wall-E, where they say "red is the new blue" on
all the screens, and suddenly everyone presses the button to change all their
personal possessions (including clothing) to blue!

I hate the word sheeple, I really do, but seriously guys, what the hell? It's
a fucking phone.

~~~
raverbashing
the iPhone SE not existing at the time was the reason I went with Android (I
could have gone with an iPhone 5 but I didn't want a past model - and price
was a factor as well)

I guess it's not much a reversal of the trend rather as a "return to normal"

Pockets and hands are still the same size as always

------
seanmcdirmid
Not reading the article yet since Bloomberg is blocked by the GFW and my VPN
is down again, but isn't this what we should expect anyways? As smartphones
become more mature and slow down in innovation, everyone else who are value
players can more easily catch up, destroying apple's previous leading edge
advantage. Basically, when/if smartphones become a commodity, Apple has to
move into something else that isn't or join a race to the bottom.

~~~
dharma1
Smartphones have already become a commodity. I wonder what else?

------
Grazester
I bought a Huawei(P8 Lite) for a girlfriend of mine and we both fell in love
with the phone. She use to make fun of my Nexus 6 as a result and called it a
tablet.

Chinese companies are getting it right where it comes to affordable phones

~~~
tluyben2
I got a P8 Max and I'm not looking back. Great phablet for a very good price.
Can't beat that battery life.

------
xlayn
Change phrasing and therefore idea:

Apple products premium price doesn't represent, have, offer or convey any
benefit to China buyers.

------
diimdeep
As long as software quality and synergy with hardware at Apple side there is
no problem, For example Android video capture still nowhere close to iOS. In
phones made for Chinese market its even worse right now, but getting better.

------
tnuoccapass
I used a china phone and it was a way better phone than any american phone i
ever used, and i couldn't even use it very good because it was in CHINESE.

------
_pmf_
> Apple’s China Problem Is That Local Phones Are Good – And Cheap

 _Other_ local phones, since you'd be hard presses to find something un-
Chinese about the iPhone.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
The OS? The software ecosystem? The App store? 99.999% of the apps? The brand?
The industrial design? Just because something is manufactured somewhere,
doesn't mean it originates from that place.

Is there even a homegrown Chinese mobile OS? Re-skinning android doesn't
count.

~~~
gggmaster
Please, no more NIH syndrome. Linux, which is built by an international
community, is good enough.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Linux is just a kernel. Android is an entire ecosystem made by an American
company. I think its a stretch to call Android an international product.

Its probably also a stretch to call Linux international considering its
founder is an American citizen now and the vast majority of contributors are
Americans and American companies. Not to mention its essentially a clone of an
American proprietary product.

