
Mobile showers for San Francisco's homeless - nkhumphreys
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30203229
======
runarberg
I was homeless (living in a bus) with my girlfriend in San Francisco two years
ago for 6 months and finding showers and shaving was one of the more difficult
of necessities. There was a homeless facility in our neighbourhood (the
Mission) that offered showers on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I usually went once a
week. There was also girls only facility that my girlfriend used on Wednesday.
Theoretically We could have taken the muni to other parts of the city for
showers on other days, but the time and effort is usually not worth it (there
is usually some 1-2 hours of waiting list involved). Other times we went to
San Francisco State University for a shower. Although it's far away, the
facilities are so comfy and sufficient compared to the homeless facilities
that it is worth the trip, especially for shaving.

Toilets were less of a problem, we used cafés, public parks, constructions
porter potties (non-padlocked), and grocery stores. And laundry was no problem
at all (we just used the coin-ups).

I definitely agree with greater variability of sanitation possibilities.
Especially when it comes to showers.

~~~
lpsz
Thank you for sharing. Would you be willing to share more of your story: how
did you become homeless in SF, and how did you eventually change the
situation? Are you in the tech industry?

In my (probably limited) view, SF homeless are primarily the folks around
Tenderloin that seem unfortunately abandoned by the society.

As I'm sure many of us would like to help the overall situation (even if it's
by donating to the right groups), it would be eye-opening to hear more of a
first-person account from someone actually on HN.

~~~
DAddYE

        In my (probably limited) view, SF homeless are primarily
        the folks around Tenderloin that seem unfortunately
        abandoned by the society.
    

Couldn't be more wrong IMHO.

I lived in the tenderloin for a year, most if not all are by choice. I had
also the opportunity to talk with few (the friendly and not too crazy one) and
they wouldn't take back a "normal" life.

I'm not saying that for ALL is the same, but from my experience I can say that
probably 60% are drugs/alcohol addicts 8% do that by choice, 30% totally crazy
(most seems from abuse of durgs), 2% left back.

~~~
peterwwillis
Anyone who is left to openly suffer under an addiction, mental [or otherwise]
illness, or who is left to believe that being homeless is somehow a better
life than they might have otherwise, is being abandoned by society.

Addiction is not a choice. Mental illness is not a choice. And having your
soul crushed to the point where you find it less humiliating to remain
homeless, is not a choice.

In my experience, the only people who truly choose to be homeless are people
who have advantages that they give away due to some ideal that they think
they'll achieve by living a humbler life. These people might not have a home,
but they also aren't disadvantaged the way other homeless are. Making this
distinction is important, as it cuts to the heart of real homelessness: an
inability to help oneself. And that's why society is supposed to help.

------
cgcardona
I live and work in San Francisco and have tweeted many times about the extreme
lack of public restrooms and the overwhelming amount of human waste littered
across our beautiful city.

We have an incredibly large transient population and yet there are hardly any
public restrooms. It's an all too common site to see someone squatting down in
the middle of the sidewalk relieving themselves.

We pride ourselves on being the Florence of the Digital Renaissance yet we
can't provide for the basic human needs of our citizens.

For a while I've been looking for ways that I can make a big difference in
cleaning up our city and this project is the catalyst that I've been looking
for.

This morning my mind is on fire w/ ideas thanks to the inspiration provided by
[http://www.lavamae.org/](http://www.lavamae.org/).

As a person which has adopted San Francisco as my city and the place where I'm
raising my son I thank you greatly!

:-]

[EDIT]

* Fixed broken URL

~~~
jwilliams
It's worth reading this article:
[http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/3758-why-is-there-
so-m...](http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/3758-why-is-there-so-much-
human-shit-on-the-streets)

Homeless people were using the BART escalators as restrooms at night...
causing them to break down. The solution? Multi-million dollar covers to stop
people getting down there at night – _not_ a considerably smaller sum for
public restrooms.

This speaks to the psychology. There is still a population in SF that believes
homelessness is a choice. And that facilities encourage homelessness. There is
another segment that believes SF already shoulders a disproportionate amount
of dealing homelessness. There are a lot of people that just find them
annoying.

I'm always surprised how many locals don't believe Civic or Tenderloin is ever
going to change. Why? Zoning, regulations – but mostly because it's always
been that way.

So, yeah. I don't quite understand it either.

~~~
DAddYE
I think this is a simplification of the problem. I don't think (yes I'm one
that thinks most are by choice) is a problem can be solved easily if not at
all.

The current solution is put a "Twitter" in a bad area and construct new
buildings around. So far seems is working.

I can say that people here are the most friendly ever seen so far (I'm
european and I traveled a lot Europe, can't say about others places in the
us).

So, I fatigue to think that San Franciscans are "bad" and they left most
behind.

IMHO part of the problem is an heritage of and old lifestyle (especially with
drugs).

What really upset me a bit is that here these people have no social care for
their mental issues. Some are quite dangerous and I got really scared few
times when I lived in tenderloin.

~~~
jwilliams
Not sure I follow. You're calling this a simplification, but your synopsis
isn't that much more complex.

Plus, you think that most are by choice. However, you also point out lack of
support for mental issues. I personally find this a contradiction – if you've
got serious mental issues and no support, then the ability to choose is
basically void.

~~~
yardie
See, they choose to be homeless in San Francisco. They could have chosen to be
homeless elsewhere.

~~~
ams6110
Homeless tend to flock to where it's easiest to be homeless. Definitely seen
this where I live, over the past 10 years the city has devoted considerable
resources to "homelessness" and during the same interval our homeless
population has exploded. Used to be able to walk around downtown and never be
bothered, now panhandlers are everywhere and even assault and robbery
(previously almost unheard of) are more regular.

------
woodchuck64
It's certainly a feel-good story, but I'd like to hear more about how they
intend to handle the "dirty details" that effectively destroy public
restrooms. Is it basically like a public restroom with a full-time attendant
who polices and cleans full time?

~~~
jquery
Until they disclose the details, it's not even much of a feel-good story. How
is the full-time attendant going to clean dirty needles out of the toilet?
Maybe that's where the "policing" aspect comes into play? But how many
transients are okay with being watched in a bathroom? The SF public library
was forced to install sewage grinders to handle the "dirty details." \-
[http://sfist.com/2013/08/27/were_doomed_sf_main_library_bath...](http://sfist.com/2013/08/27/were_doomed_sf_main_library_bathroo.php)

~~~
DanBC
Just screw sharps bins to the walls like Sydney's public bathrooms do.

Thise restrooms with sharps bins are handily identified on maps.

[https://toiletmap.gov.au/Mobile?state=New%20South%20Wales&lo...](https://toiletmap.gov.au/Mobile?state=New%20South%20Wales&locality=Sydney)

It's part of the (I think) community sharps disposal programme.
[http://www.communitysharps.org.au/resources/disposal-
options](http://www.communitysharps.org.au/resources/disposal-options)

People addicted to drugs take drugs. We need to recognise that, and reduce the
harm they do to others. Needle-stick injuries are a significant concern to a
wide range of low pay workers, so better needle disposal programmes are a good
idea.

------
soneca
There is great complexity in helping homeless people in all their diversity. I
was called out as cynical in another thread of social projects, so I will try
to be more clear here.

Social projects like this one have just as much risk as a regular startup.
Most will fail, just as most startups will. But this is no reason not to start
a social project, just like with startups.

I have the impression that people have two reactions when reading stories like
these: i) people love the idea and that someone made it happen, and are glad
that it exists, regardless if it will actually impact a lot of people or not
and ii) people think it will fail, normally for _obvious_ reasons and that the
project shouldn't have started at all. It is a waste of people's time, money,
trust and will.

Myself, I pretty much act the same way as with any other Show HN for a regular
startup. If I love the idea and I am impressed by the execution and potential,
I just share that and go on to sign-up or buy the product and share with my
friends. If I see flaws, according to my own view, in the idea or execution or
vision, I go on and comment, trying to help. If I don't like the idea or the
vision, I just ignore.

So I'm commenting here because I liked very much the idea and the vision. But
helping homeless is a tricky business. A little bit of counterintuitive, but
homelessness is less correlated to previous poverty compared to other social
issues. I lack some studies to cite here, this is personal experience working
with homeless people and talking to people with more knowledge on the subject
than me (in Brazil and Uruguay, but one of things I learned is that homeless
people have a lot in common all over the world). Maybe HN may attract more
qualified people on the subject than me, but I do have some practical
experience with it.

Poverty does not cause homelessness. There is a diversity on homeless people
in relation to their social status and wealth. What makes someone homeless is
lack of social networks, not money. Social network as the people you know, not
the websites. You become isolated, unable to ask or receive help from close
family, far relatives, friends, colleagues, acquaintances. The reasons you
lost all your human support has much less diversity: alcohol or drug
addictions and mental illness are the most common. Also common is just
geographical separation, as with migrants. There is a shame in going to the
big city and "not making it".

That big, maybe dispensable intro, was to say that you must provide the
structure, just as "Lava Mae" did (very well by the way, as being mobile it is
a great solution). But also you need incentive (which I honestly don't know
how Lava Mae provide). Just as in tech, if you build, you don't know if they
will come. There is a lot of reasons a homeless person might not want to get
in the bus. They don't trust the people there, they just don't want to have
any contact what so ever with another person, they may be afraid of it, they
may consider their dirt an important part of their persona, they may be afraid
of loosing their stuff while bathing. I see that they have the purpose of
being "a safe and welcoming environment". But that may not be enough.

Not paying enough attention to incentive, marketing and distribution in this
kind of project is dangerous. To build something and complain that no one
comes is just as silly as in the startup world. But in this case you still
cause more harm because a lot of people might look at it and come to the
conclusion that we should quit helping homeless people, after all "there was
that bus to clean them and they didn't want to get clean. Everything was
there, it was their fault".

So I want to end this comment with a sugestion. Here in Brazil we have some
government restaurants that charge R$ 1.00 (~U$0.40) per meal. Enough that
anyone can afford, even the homeless (if I recall correctly, even the R$1.00
fee is optional). The food is good enough, I ate at one several times, and the
restaurant of choice of a lot of lower class, employed people. That provides
dignity to the place. And it is very clean. It is open for everyone. So when a
anyone come to eat there, there is just one discrimination: you must be clean.
And the place provides a bathroom for the homeless people that need, to take a
bath, be clean and then eat.

The magic is that at once, you provide a good incentive (to eat), with several
good explanations of why should the homeless person get clean at all. It is
not because people in the street will avoid you, or that you will annoy
society. It is because eating is a special circumstance, an important ritual
and place. People will be sitting close to you and they have the right to eat
without getting dirty and without smelling bad. You will eat on a proper
place, with proper tools, and then you must be on proper shape to eat. Among
with other assurances such as that their stuff will be safe and untouched when
they finish.

This could be a "growth hack" to Lava Mae (IF they didn't think about it yet,
which I just don't know). Pair up with some restaurants, soup lines, or
whatever food service for the poor they have in SF; ask them to require the
people to be clean to eat there and Lava Mae provide the structure.

~~~
pm90
That idea is brilliant, btw. To have people be clean to get food.

Actually food is cheap enough that it should, in theory, be possible to
provide it to every person who needs it without high costs.

------
Animats
They're "mobile" because a fixed facility would become a "homeless magnet",
neighbors would object, and real estate interests wouldn't like it. Santa
Monica has something called SHWASHLOCK; free showers, washing machines, and
lockers for homeless people. It only serves about 125 people, though. SF has
about 13,000 homeless. (In comparison, about 75,000 gays.)

SF has become more homeless-hostile as the city has become more prosperous.

------
pcrh
I'm not sure whether to laud this or be shocked at the lack of more standard
provisions.

Bath houses were a feature of cities for centuries.

~~~
pstuart
San Francisco had bath houses but they, um, weren't very clean and were shut
down.

~~~
pcrh
I think San Francisco's former "bath houses" served a different function than
that being provided by these showers. They were shut down at the height of the
AIDS epidemic.

~~~
rdl
SF had "normal" bath houses before that.

------
danbmil99
I hate to be "that guy" (ok, well sometimes I like it) -- but isn't there a
risk of making one locality much more welcoming to the homeless that we end up
being the drop-off point for every homeless person in the region?

My point is not that we shouldn't offer help, but that by doing so on a city-
by-city basis, with no overall plan or obligation, we allow many localities to
freeload off the good will of the few that try to do the right thing.

------
car
I really admire these charitable and heroic efforts to help. But I can't help
thinking, that the problem of homelessness should be attacked via it's root
cause, which is a society does not care for the poor or sick, in a very
Darwinian 'survival of the fittest' kind of way.

The obvious solution is to collect more taxes, and to help those in need, be
it due to poverty or mental health issues. That would mean paying for housing
and providing free healthcare.

So, if you really want to help, consider the idea of a more social state, and
be willing to pay higher taxes.

------
ommunist
Jesus, what a poor city Frisco. The poorest country in the EU - Latvia in its
poorest region - Latgale, in the poorest city of Daugavpils (around 75 000 ppl
now with many homeless) has 4 (!) public bath houses.

This situation is grave. Like @pstuart mentioned below city bath houses were
closed in SanFran, and restrooms on stations were also never reopened. How can
a civilized man live in such a city?

------
rodrago
Mobile showers are great, but I might have missed what’s so groundbreaking
about it.

[http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Mobile_Shower_Unit__...](http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Mobile_Shower_Unit__Does_Wonders__for_Homeless_Los_Angeles.html)
[http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2008210554_homeless28...](http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2008210554_homeless28m.html)
[http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100923/NEWS01/709239891](http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100923/NEWS01/709239891)
[http://www.henkelna.com/press/2010-16528-henkel-and-tempe-
co...](http://www.henkelna.com/press/2010-16528-henkel-and-tempe-community-
action-agency-launch-shower-power-12725.htm)
[http://www.depaulfrance.org/actualites/mobildouche/?lang=en](http://www.depaulfrance.org/actualites/mobildouche/?lang=en)

~~~
towelguy
Of course it's not groundbreaking, but until it becomes commonplace, it's nice
to hear about such things happening.

~~~
rodrago
sure is, i am involved in one. just weird seeing people react as it was a new
idea.

edit: grammar

------
mipapage
"The scheme comes at a time of heightened tension in the city, fuelled by the
tech boom which led to charges of gentrification amid exponential rent rises
over the past two years."

It is too bad things have to touch some sort of bottom for a reaction to
occur.

Treat one another with grace and humanity.

------
jfuhrman
The confidence that this will inspire while looking or interviewing for a job
is immense. Taking it one step further, it would be great if they're provided
free clothing if they can prove(to prevent abuse) that they need it to go to
an interview.

~~~
jonaldomo
It exists here is a charity specific for women with a location in San
Francisco
[http://www.dressforsuccess.org/affiliate.aspx?sisid=114&page...](http://www.dressforsuccess.org/affiliate.aspx?sisid=114&pageid=1)

------
schappim
Awesome and practical idea!

Did anyone else hear Claire Underwood in that interview?
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Underwood](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Underwood)

------
cpr
No one got the reference to Psalm 50? (Latin "Lava me")
[http://www.medievalist.net/psalmstxt/ps50.htm](http://www.medievalist.net/psalmstxt/ps50.htm)
;-)

Of course, it's also a play on "wash me" Spanish.

------
tzakrajs
That was inspiring!

------
Hurricane2K5
What do you think of these proposals? Is it too controversial?

#1a - Proposed Ad Photo - Are You Feeding The Homeless? Or, Are you feeding
the Addiction? [http://tinyurl.com/lajnco5](http://tinyurl.com/lajnco5)

#1b - Did Jesus say, "Feed the Poor"? Or, did Jesus say, "Feed the Addiction"?
[http://tinyurl.com/mk8s3vq](http://tinyurl.com/mk8s3vq)

#2 - Tulane Ave and Broad St Revitalization Proposal - link:
[http://tinyurl.com/kv684yc](http://tinyurl.com/kv684yc) NOTE: Please see the
follow up comments in regards to moving the Homeless Shelters, etc.

#3 - Long term plan to "Break the Addiction", Use Bread Crumbs
[http://tinyurl.com/nrvnxp9](http://tinyurl.com/nrvnxp9)

#4 - You can't criminalize being Homeless (How can you get a job if you are
criminal?) [http://tinyurl.com/mexjapx](http://tinyurl.com/mexjapx) (same page
in #1a above, but direct link to section)

#5 - WHERE ARE THE FAMILIES and FRIENDS of the HOMELESS? If these "homeless"
are just one (1) or two (2) paychecks from homelessness, why can't these
homeless sleep on the couch of their family members or friend(s) for a few
months? [http://tinyurl.com/o92f4oc](http://tinyurl.com/o92f4oc) (same page in
#1a above, but direct link to section)

