

Ask HN: Options to work in the US if you're a foreigner - winter_blue

What are the options available to someone who&#x27;s not a US Citizen or Greencard holder, to work in the US?<p>I&#x27;m a graduate of a fairly highly-ranked U.S. university, but left after graduation. (Could not do OPT for certain reasons.) I have B.S. in CS.<p>What options do I (and other non-US persons in general) have to migrate and legally work in the US?<p>I&#x27;m doing consulting remotely at the moment, but would really like to come back.<p>I know there&#x27;s the H-1B, but it&#x27;s got a stupid limit of 65k which ends up mostly being used by a bunch of IT bodyshops; and to top it off, it&#x27;s only available starting October next year. (Too long a wait for me.)<p>Are there any other visas &#x2F; means by which a skilled worker (such as myself) could work in the US?
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patio11
In general you'll want to find the job first and then have them on board for
getting you through immigration. There are numerous other options: O-1
("Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement") is common in our
industry. Immigration attorneys practicing in Silicon Valley are _quite
familiar indeed_ with how to match up the realities of the tech industry with
the state machine set up by Congress to grant O-1 visas.

Also ask about EB-1 and EB-2.

[Edit: I am not an immigration attorney, and have more practical experience
with Japan's immigration bureaucracy than with the US', but I have some aging
professional experience with helping engineers and assorted technologists
navigate the process because it was once very relevant to my day job.]

~~~
winter_blue
patio11, it's a honor to get a reply from you!

Japan is a place I'd be very interested in emigrating to. I'm from India. How
hard is it to move to Japan? Do you think Japanese people would be friendly to
Indians?

FYI I watch a lot of anime and read a fair bit of manga now and then. As such,
I have a certain affection for Japanese culture in my heart -- which is sort
of is why I want to live there.

Above and beyond, how easy is it to set up a startup or a consultancy (like
yours) in Japan? A lot of countries have provisions for work visas, but
sponsoring _yourself_ (as in a startup), seems to be impossible for most
countries.

~~~
patio11
_How hard is it to move to Japan? Do you think Japanese people would be
friendly to Indians?_

It is not very difficult to move to Japan, provided that you have lined up a
job with a Japanese employer. Many Japanese multinationals employ substantial
numbers of Indian engineers. I won't lie to you, though, finding a position at
one starting in India is _tricky_ unless you first work for a firm that the
multinational has a pre-existing business relationship with. I won't say
"Can't be done" but _tricky_.

Japanese people are, like Americans and Indians, all over the map. We were
able to insulate the 5 Indian employees of my previous Japanese employer from
_most_ casual racism. This was largely due to having several decisionmakers at
a large multinational who credibly promised to bring that multinational's
substantial socioeconomic power to bear on anyone who felt that our employees
should not be treated like our employees.

 _A lot of countries have provisions for work visas, but sponsoring yourself
(as in a startup), seems to be impossible for most countries._

In Japan, status of residence (what you'd think of as a visa) follow people
rather than following jobs. I have a status of residence gained as an employee
of the aforementioned megacorp. Keeping my status of residence just requires
that I file some paperwork every few years. I won't lie, Kalzumeus Software
(my company) had a much more difficult go of it than the megacorp did, but I
was able to successfully convince the relevant authorities that my consultancy
was sufficiently established to hit all the requirements of Japanese
immigration law.

(I've since gotten married to a Japanese woman, which will make things a bit
more straightforward after I switch to a spousal status of residence, although
I haven't bothered to do that paperwork yet.)

 _FYI I watch a lot of anime and read a fair bit of manga now and then._

A word to the wise: this is not something which I would suggest dwelling much
upon in professional, legal, or administrative contexts.

~~~
winter_blue
Thanks for the reply, Patrick!

 _It is not very difficult to move to Japan, provided that you have lined up a
job with a Japanese employer._

Sounds like I could work in Japan as long as I have a job lined up -- which is
much better than the situation in the US. I have no problems finding work in
the US, it's just that the lack of H-1Bs mean that employers have no way of
bringing me over. I wish US immigration law was a bit more open.

I've heard of the EB-1/EB-2 in the past, but I thought you had to be in the
country (on an H-1 or L-1 or something) to apply for it. Either way, aren't
those supposed to have really long wait times (in the order of years), in
addition to having strenuous requirements (like labor certification, etc.) As
a recent graduate, I don't know if I could satisfy all of those.

On the pro side, I wasn't born in India so it should be a bit easier to get
for me. (I've practically never even lived in the country for most of life
until recently.) From what I've heard, they restrict these EB visas on a
country-of-birth basis, and people from India and China have to wait for
_several years_ to get an EB approved.

 _We were able to insulate the 5 Indian employees of my previous Japanese
employer from most casual racism._

I never experienced _any_ racism (as strange as it may sound), during my
undergraduate years in the US. Maybe I was just oblivious to it, but to be
honest, everyone in the US just seemed nice and friendly to me. FYI I was in
NYC area -- perhaps that's got something to do with it.

 _In Japan, status of residence (what you 'd think of as a visa) follow people
rather than following jobs._

This sounds wonderful. Does this mean that even if you loose your job, you can
stick around a bit longer (and not get immediately kicked out of the country
as you would have in the US) ?

Being able to do a startup would be awesome as well. A friend of mine (who's a
US citizen) and I have been thinking of starting an indie game startup. Would
a low initial revenue rule out startups? Based on your blog, I assume
Kalzumeus had a pretty strong cash in-flow record. Would an indie game startup
with zero or very-low income satisfy the Japanese immigration authorities?

~~~
patio11
_Does this mean that even if you lose your job, you can stick around a bit
longer (and not get immediately kicked out of the country as you would have in
the US)?_

After your paperwork gets stamped, your legal ability to live and work in
Japan is mostly disconnected from the employer whose name was originally on
your paperwork. You can switch between employers with the same degree of
freedom accorded to Japanese citizens _provided that_ any job which you take
falls under the same status of residence. (e.g. I'm an engineer, so getting
other jobs as an engineer is easy, but getting a job as e.g. a translator
would require changing status of residence. That's a much more difficult
paperwork burden than simply telling the government "BTW, my employer of
record has changed.")

In my case, the day after I quit the megacorp I went to the local tax office,
informed them of my intention to file taxes as a self-employed individual the
following year, then walked to City Hall and had them update my foreigner
registration to reflect "my new employer." They were amused that I was quite
on top of things.

 _Would an indie game startup with zero or very-low income satisfy the
Japanese immigration authorities?_

Again, there is no question of satisfying them until you come to your
every-3-year renewal. (You're not thinking of having the startup attempt to
sponsor you for your initial status of residence, right? If you were... that
would be a bit of a reach, absent a strong endorsement from the president of
Toyota or the Emperor, or maybe both.)

If you can't come up with contracts, tax payments, and the like attesting to
"a reasonable" amount of income at renewal time, expect your application for
renewal to be denied. Clerks have a wide degree of flexibility in what "a
reasonable" amount constitutes: it has been quoted to me as "at least that of
an average Japanese citizen", "at least that of an average Japanese citizen
involved in your line of work", "3 million yen a year", and "sufficient that
you not become a burden on the public purse."

On a totally separate note:

1) Running a business is hard

2) Making video games for money is hard

3) Self-sponsoring a visa is hard

I strongly suggest you not attempt the trifecta at once.

~~~
winter_blue
Thanks for the all the answer, Patrick!

FYI Dubai _actually_ allows you to set up a company there (like a startup) and
issues visas for yourself.[1] The company doesn't have to generate any
revenue. In addition, there's no tax (corporate or personal) in Dubai, and the
UAE in general.

It's a good option to consider if you want to live in a modern city without
taxes (it comes with its own catches though).

[1] You generally apply through a free zone authority (e.g. DTMFZA). They
require you to rent an office, and pay a license -- which can be expensive.
But there are multiple free zone authorities in each emirate, and you it's
possible to find cheap ways to set up a company & issue visas. The cheapest
I've found is with the RAK free zone authority:

* The company license + rent = $5000 per year. You don't actually rent an office, but rather get access to a nice office for a few hours a week. This is useful if you want to meet clients in a nice setting (outside your home).

* A work visa - valid for 3 years, costs $2000. That's a recurring $2000 every three years.

Overall, it's a good deal due to the absolute lack of taxes. I haven't heard
of a lot of startups in the Dubai area though.

~~~
rmc
_It 's a good option to consider if you want to live in a modern city without
taxes (it comes with its own catches though)._

It's not modern in many regards though. Homosexuality is illegal. Sex outside
of marriage is illegal (if you get raped and report it to the police, you can
be arrested & tried for having sex outside of marriage, if you kiss your
different-sex-date in public, you can be arrested and fined). Alcohol is very
legally restricted. etc.

 _I haven 't heard of a lot of startups in the Dubai area though._

The cynic in me thinks it's due to the socially conservative environment.

As Paul Graham said (
[http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html)
):

 _That 's the connection between technology and liberalism. Without exception
the high-tech cities in the US are also the most liberal. But it's not because
liberals are smarter that this is so. It's because liberal cities tolerate odd
ideas, and smart people by definition have odd ideas.

Conversely, a town that gets praised for being "solid" or representing
"traditional values" may be a fine place to live, but it's never going to
succeed as a startup hub._

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solutionyogi
H1B is your best bet. It will be a lot of paperwork to prove that you are
worthy of O1 or EB1 which can get you to USA right away. EB2 is not an option
as it will take a long time, currently they are processing EB2 cases from
2007.

I am originally from India and came to US on H1B 9 years ago. I am very
familiar with the immigration process. Email me and we can chat.

------
eshvk
Quick summary on the U.S. side of things. Only way you can get in here is
through a H1B. O-1 will be tough in your case unless you have published a lot
of papers (or have a PhD). Since you were not born in the U.S., you may want
to look at the Diversity lottery too; i.e. see if you are eligible for that.

Oh, also. You would be eligible for EB-1 only once you have a masters or have
hit five years of experience. In which case, the green card will arrive much
faster than it would for Indian/Chinese people born in those countries.

