
Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data - mauricioc
http://news.yahoo.com/brazil-arrests-facebook-executive-row-over-police-data-155215319.html
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danielmantovani
Just to clarify stupid arguments. The federal police was asking information
like ip address from organised crime pages, they use Facebook as other social
network pages(In this case actually we are talking about Whatsapp). Don't have
ANYTHING TO DO WITH SPY CITIZENS. Like
PCC([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primeiro_Comando_da_Capital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primeiro_Comando_da_Capital))
has an official facebook page. There is many people in Brazil who stole
cellphones, kill people and post on Facebook(Yeh, I know is ridiculous dumb,
but people does). Definitely the IP address will help the cops. Please stop to
talk about stupid spy conspiracy without understand the "why". They arrested
Facebook's VP because they don't know what to do anymore, because Facebook
always deny the justice requests. Oh, if you think that they are protecting
your data, you are just dumb as a stone, they are just protecting them self.

(Sorry for my poor english, it isn't my first or second language.)

~~~
pmarreck
Try and struggle through this please

[http://martinfowler.com/articles/bothersome-
privacy.html](http://martinfowler.com/articles/bothersome-privacy.html)

Or read the google-translated version into Portuguese

[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=pt&js=y&pr...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=pt&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmartinfowler.com%2Farticles%2Fbothersome-
privacy.html&edit-text=)

It explains very well why this is no trivial issue to Americans nor to tech
people.

Also, your drugs should be legalized or decriminalized, anyway. It would put
all the bad guys out of business and bring the entire drug market back within
regulation. Portugal did it and it's considered a success, why can't Brazil?

~~~
schoen
That article includes a link to an official Portuguese translation, which is
still available at

[http://lixo.org/blog/2013/08/05/privacidade-protege-
pessoas-...](http://lixo.org/blog/2013/08/05/privacidade-protege-pessoas-
incomodas)

~~~
pmarreck
ah. oops.

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dudus
Brazil also arrested Google Brazil CEO/Country Manager a few years ago.

[http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/26/tech/brazil-
google/](http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/26/tech/brazil-google/)

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dmoy
Judges in Brazil certainly have a way with foreign companies & countries. For
example with immigration issues (fingerprinting[1], random deportations) they
will go tit for tat.

[1]
[http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/12/30/brazil.usa.immi...](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/12/30/brazil.usa.immigration.reut/)

~~~
caiob
Simple reciprocity.

~~~
x5n1
All governments should extend the courtesy that US extends to their citizens
to Americans entering their country. Perhaps that will encourage Americans to
encourage their government to treat non-Americans better.

~~~
fapjacks
So... You're suggesting Americans have some kind of power over the American
government or something?

~~~
x5n1
Well it is suppose to be a representative democracy.

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edcastro
Put simply, they are in contempt of the court disregarding the subpoena. This,
under Brazilian law, warrants the arrest.

They could fight the subpoena but decided to do nothing, so, I kinda agree
with the court on this one.

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envy2
It's not that simple: it seems that the issue isn't that WhatsApp/Facebook
have wilfully disregarded the subpoena, but rather that Brazil isn't happy
with their assertions that the information requested doesn't exist. WhatsApp
has previously stated publicly that they don't retain any messages once
they're delivered; if this is true, it's not strictly that they aren't willing
to comply (though this may also be true), it's that they _can 't_ comply.

~~~
edcastro
I agree, and if they CAN'T comply, they should address it on the court, not on
a public statement that has no valid legal value.

That's what it comes to. The court requested three times, increasing the fines
each of the tries and it was received with [legal] silence from Facebook.
That's why they went ahead and issued the arrest warrant.

~~~
nandemo
The odd thing is, there are so many ways you can avoid an arrest legally in
Brazil as long you have the legal resources. They could have thrown a
_liminar_ (injunction?) to avoid handing the data or, as a last resort, an
_habeas corpus_ to avoid the arrest.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus)

Our ex-president Lula has just avoided questioning/testifying on a corruption
case. He's suspected of having gotten an apartment from construction companies
as a bribe. It was on someone else's name, so he doesn't pay taxes on it etc
(also illegal apart from the bribe). This is much more serious than this
Facebook case, and there's so much evidence now that it would be a slam dunk
case in any decent country. And Lula got out of it legally.

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yeahrightfam
Brazil is a sovereign country and they are free to define their legal system
any way they want. Facebook needs to comply with Brazilian law, not the other
way around.

If you do something illegal you should expect punishment from the law sooner
or later.

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Artur_Gaspar
I'm not saying Facebook is right, but following the law isn't necessarily the
right thing to do, neither need one always expect punishment.

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nickpsecurity
Greenwald at The Intercept writes a lot about American spying and overreach in
data access. I'll be interested to see what he writes about Brazil's
activities such as this.

~~~
csandreasen
Probably about as much as you see from him on the subject of Russia and China.
The Intercept is about as unbiased as Fox News - lots of criticism directed
towards the US and its allies, silence on every other country.

~~~
celticninja
Lets be fair here:

1: Greenwald is an American so the actions of the US government are relevant
to him and his readers.

2: Greenwald is a lawyer, trained in US law, therefore the actions of the US
Government vis-a-vis US Law is a suitable topic for him to cover.

3\. China and Russia have been oppressing their people and their peoples
rights for a long time. Neither have a constitution that is supposed to
enshrine the rights of the citizens. SO there isnt much of a story there i.e.
russians have no constitutional right to privacy, when that privacy is invaded
by the state because the state has enacted laws that allow it to do that,
there is no story. Plus even if there were there are probably russina lawyers
and journal;ists who would be more knowledgeable on the subject and could
bring it to the awareness of their russian readers. I doubt many russian media
watchers read a lot of greenwald.

4\. The US sells itself as the land of the free, so their hypocrisy makes the
story worthwhile/interesting. China and Russia have never really hidden the
fact that they will spy on anyone and everyone that they can. US says "we are
your friends" and then spies on everyone regardless of their status as friend
or foe.

But you know handy to throw in a straw man argument to try and deflect
attention away from the US government and make the journalist the bad guy in
this situation.

~~~
13thLetter
> China and Russia have been oppressing their people and their peoples rights
> for a long time. Neither have a constitution that is supposed to enshrine
> the rights of the citizens. SO there isnt much of a story there

Counterpoint: If something goes without saying for long enough, people stop
knowing it, because they _never hear it._

The "drunk looking for his keys under the streetlamp" model of news reporting
is indefensible. Let it go long enough and you end up with a large population
of belligerently uninformed people, like we have now, who think the United
States is the most violent, oppressive, and brutal government in the world,
and that Americans have no human rights. This has real world consequences of
an increase in relative political power and legitimacy for genuinely
oppressive states.

~~~
celticninja
Im not saying that it's right but it is not Greenwald's fault that this is
happening an blaming him for it is essentially trying to discredit what he has
brought to light because of what he has not covered. If that isnt a trick
straight out of the CIA/NSA handbook then I dont know what is.

~~~
nickpsecurity
Identifying bias or double standards is journalism 101. Spies do that too
given they have to collect information too. Yet, wondering about a guy who ran
off with the Snowden leaks on his own for selfish gain... even to Schneier's
surprise... isnt CIA/NSA propaganda. It's a legitimate concern about his
motives and/or moral high ground he tries to leverage in debates.

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vaadu
What if FB fired the VP? Pay him a nice severance, pay his legal fees but cut
him off from being able to comply with the court order.

At that point the authorities are left holding the bag.

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zghst
Then they go to the next guy in line.

~~~
justinclift
Wonder if they would hire someone already in prison, purely to be a
placeholder...? :D

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tathastu
Brazil may be shooting themselves in the foot -- they're trying to create an
innovation industry around Sao Paulo and these things will just create a
chilling effect that chases a huge bunch of industries out of the country.

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ng-user
God I'm happy Yahoo is dying, that was disgusting to read.

~~~
spacehome
Um, "Don't shoot the messenger"???

~~~
ng-user
Guess I didn't make it obvious enough, their website is what I found
disgusting.

