
Ubuntu now available from the Windows store - yomritoyj
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/07/10/ubuntu-now-available-from-the-windows-store/
======
RcouF1uZ4gsC
This removes one of the major reasons to use a Mac for Linux development. Many
people used Macs because they had nice hardware that just works, as well as a
Unix (but not Linux) environment. Now, you can buy a Windows laptop and have
Windows manage all the tricky bits like power management and graphics while
having a bona fide Linux distro for development. Plus, you can also play games
:)

~~~
staofbur
As someone who just switched from windows to Mac, when you pick windows you
also gain periodic show stopping problems, kafkaesque hoops to jump through
randomly in the middle of your workflow, a slightly terrible security
architecture and the ability for family and friends to see you using windows
and are clearly an expert and then ask you to fix their crapware ridden death
boxes. At least you gain thousands of google results for every problem coming
your way.

Incidentally yesterday I ran out of disk space on my old windows laptop. There
was a windows problem reporting process that ate 100MiB once an hour.
Eventually over the space of weeks you lose your entire disk then spend an
hour googling the numerous incantations that need to be applied to fix this
most of which don't work. Random shit like this happens at least once a week
or so and just ruins an afternoon.

Also don't think that the built in ubuntu or windows shell stuff actually
works properly. There are many horrible bugs. Nothing on windows works
properly for months if not years. Even with creators update, I used putty and
virtual box because it was _that_ bad.

Also you're going to miss things like keychain in OSX.

Edit: also my old T440 which I was running windows on, Lenovo couldn't ship
working drivers for creators update and the moment that got rolled out TSHTF.
This resulted in the SATA controller hanging for 30 seconds every five minutes
and locking the machine up. I wasted six hours trying to find a combination of
drivers and PM config that actually didn't do this. That's a whole day of work
down the pan.

There is just ZERO quality on the platform and I'm done with it.

~~~
pzduniak
Same here, also you can't really map NTFS to Linux filesystems (perms + max
path length, have fun using Go with vendor / NodeJS), so you run into stupid
issues where the only solution is to boot up a VM anyways - and then, most of
the time, the VM file sharing does not support proper permissions. After
dealing with that for about a month, I was pleased to hear that NVidia
released drivers for 10-series GPUs for OSX, so I transformed a Haswell-E
8-core workstation into a Hackintosh and I get best of both worlds (except
some USB soundcard issues, but it automatically switches to Bluetooth when it
dies, so it's all fine).

Regarding notebooks, I paid the premium over Windows notebooks just to get a
MBP. The quality is far superior to anything I could find and for some reason
there's no equivalent of a MBP15 in terms of performance, size and
portability. Everyone's stuffing the low-TDP 2-core i7s and 14 screens into
their "ultrabooks" and calling it a day.

~~~
istoica
This, this on so many levels! But this issue affects VMs too, the shared
folders are always mounted with strange permissions, this is propagated to
Docker too so Docker XP on Windows, in any configuration is seriously affected
by the NTFS, put simply, awful. For developers this is critical. I don't know,
maybe a software layer on top of NTFS permission might be able to emulate
Posix style perms. The difference between Windows and Unix is too big compared
to OSX, that is why OSX will always be more ergonomic.

But this does not mean that it is not to be appreciated, they did an awesome
job. Maybe one day things will be solved, maybe you will be able to start
native windows apps from UOW, maybe even Docker will be supported, maybe
permissions will be cleverly emulated ... the work they did so far clearly
focuses on getting things running, the QA period will be there soon too.

------
scandox
For me one very important aspect of Linux is that the OS is decoupled from any
kind of "consumer experience". In other words nothing in the OS is ever asking
me:

Who I am

For Payment Information

Would I like to see an Ad

Do I need additional products or services

So I appreciate that this is handy for some people, but to me it's like
avocado ice-cream. A bad idea that tastes like crap.

~~~
xyzxyz998
Wow, you haven't even tried the thing once clearly.

Can you elaborate on what is it that is bad about WSL being on Windows? How
does it make things bad for anybody? It's called choice.

~~~
scandox
I have been in my day a very heavy user of Windows. What I object to on both
Windows and Mac is the whole "store" experience. When my personal computer
asks me for a credit card, I find this to be a profoundly uncomfortable
experience - whether that's rational or not is a separate question.

So that's why to me it's like Avocado Ice Cream: a choice many people are free
to make and enjoy....like the maniacs they are.

~~~
asendra
The only time your mac ask for your credit card information is when you are
trying to pay something with your Apple account and you don't already have it.

If you don't want to be uncomfortable then simply don't try to pay for
something with your Apple account.

~~~
falcolas
Not wholly true. My mac ecosystem is currently blocking the download of a free
app until I verify my CC information (which consists of entering the CCV for
the hundredth time, but that's a separate rant).

~~~
beerbaron23
Defiantly not totally true, I have multiple accounts on the mac store and I've
never once been asked for a credit card, I download free apps via the store at
will.

If that bothers you, you can always just download the app from the dev's
website and not bother with the store completely.

What probably happened is that you have an existing expired CC on your
account, so just remove it and continue on...

~~~
falcolas
What is actually happening is my Apple account gets locked out about once a
week (completely outside of my control), so they want me to verify everything
again, even to make "free" purchases. A real PITA.

> you can always just download the app from the dev's website and not bother
> with the store completely

This makes a number of assumptions - namely that the developer has made the
app available via their website (which is not common if they use in-app
purchases).

------
a_imho
Even clicked the linked articles and never came across a satisfying answer to
the question: why? And I mean practical use cases where one would pick WSL
over Linux. Once bitten twice shy, I would not hold against them if people
were to be skeptical when MS decides to embrace competing products.

~~~
mastax
> And I mean practical use cases where one would pick WSL over Linux.

You don't. You choose it over MSYS2/MinGW/Cygwin.

~~~
etatoby
Except for the fact that you cannot launch (or otherwise control) Windows
processes from the Linux environment. That's one serious limitation.

~~~
jstarks
You can now! You can run .exe files directly from WSL, and we append your
Windows path to your Linux path by default to make this easy.

------
Fzzr
Today in "headlines that would have been April Fools jokes ten years ago"

~~~
userbinator
I think that would be more like "Windows now available from Ubuntu package
manager"...

------
nnq
I never quite get developers that don't use a system most similar with they
_deployment target..._ If I develop web apps intended to run on -nix, I use
Linux, if I develop Windows stuff, I use Windows etc.

It creates a huge understanding gap that slows you down and makes you miss so
many shortcuts...

Windows, Macos, Linux are all _good enough to get shit done_ these days... so
pick whichever suits current needs best. (I reboot to different OS depending
on project since this also helps me avoid my dangerous tendency for
multitasking... and productivity/office tools are all web apps for me so I can
use them anywhere, including phone and tablet).

~~~
dingo_bat
My company lives on Outlook. My dev is fully targetted on Linux. How should I
use Linux on my laptop/workstation?

~~~
likeclockwork
Run Outlook in a Windows VM on Linux instead of doing your real work in a
Linux VM on Windows.

~~~
likeclockwork
So, someone wrote this reply and it got downvoted to death or they're
hellbanned or something, I want to reply to it anyway.

They said: not possible due to company policies. you wouldn't be able to
connect to our network with Linux desktop anyway. welcome to corporate world

The responder reveals themselves to be an "inside the box" thinker. You could
shrink your windows partition, install Linux, boot Linux natively, boot the
existing Windows partition as a VM in VirtualBox, assign your physical NIC to
the Windows VM, and use the Windows VM as a gateway to the network.

~~~
tolle
Being able to do something doesn't mean you are able to do it. Good luck with
that setup if you are working in finance and something fucks up or there's an
audit.

~~~
nnq
> Good luck with that setup if you are working in finance and something fucks
> up or there's an audit.

...don't most companies have a clear separation between (1) _software
engineers_ , whose job is pushing out code to cloud/servers/other-users (and
who nobody should care what they use to develop that code that they push out),
and (2) _software users_ , who actually use the apps to push money/data
around?!

If you're working in finance you're _either_ in group (1) where you can use
mostly anything compatible with security policies, or in group (2) where you
can use ONLY what's whitelisted. If you're the rare snowflake sitting in both
groups at once, then _you just use 2 different separate computers._

And auditing only touches group (2) because they are the only ones handling
money and real data, unless you're in a criminal case or something, where
auditing would be done by computer security forensic experts anyway, who's by
able to handle auditing the "exotic" setups of group (1).

And if somebody is auditing the tech side, they would be looking at git
repositories, ci servers, etc. ...not the places where code is pushed _from._

------
marmaduke
PSA: filesystem performance in WSL isn't great, but it's absolutely fantastic
under windows' hyperv hypervisor.

As a dev env I run CentOS on hyperv and putty into it, and map the drive with
dokan+winsshfs, and it's just as performant as Linux/Mac on the same hardware

~~~
jstarks
Do you ever need to go the other direction, e.g. access NTFS-hosted files in
the VM?

~~~
marmaduke
For that, samba/cifs share from windows, then mount from VM should work fine.
I haven't tried it though.

------
teekert
It's the 5th result for me (when searching Ubuntu), after a Linux Cheat Sheet,
some PasteBin program and WepUpd8 (whatever that may be), then when I click
it, the first line says: "This title is powered by great new feature of the
windows insider program, please join at..."... Now should I, do I need to do
that? The Get button is greyed out, but no indication why (probably because me
company hasn't approved the anniversary update yet). What a crappy experience.

------
johnchristopher
That's a reverse first bug :-).

~~~
boramalper
For the sake of completeness:

"Microsoft has a majority market share" Bug #1 (liberation) reported by Mark
Shuttleworth on 2004-08-20

[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1](https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1)

------
tkubacki
I just don't care anymore - I keep windows on VM it's way easier (eg. WSL
doesn't support docker). I don't use any other Windows app except: VS (from
time to time) and Word. VirtualBox is more than enough for this (my host linux
desktop is beefy machine though)

------
cdevs
I have a Linux laptop and a windows laptop. I bought the windows laptop for
games and to hobby in game development , blender and unreal engine but I can't
stand windows even for those basic purposes the popups for updates and other
"do you want to set this setting now" when I just quickly want to open a
browser and google something drive me nuts. Put notifications in the toolbar
in the right with some annoying icon and leave me alone. I know what Linux is
doing all the time and if not it's easy to look up but windows Microsoft magic
makes me feel like I need tons of more security apps than I would like to have
running. I need a windows lite.

------
pgl
I just wish the issue with symlinks not being interoperable between Windows
and the Linux subsystem (and vice versa) could be fixed.

------
baybal2
Microsoft has one problem - it struggles with it being irrelevant.

Years after years of shaming from angry penguins did their job. Now Linux is
cool and Win is not. Well, Mac is now supposed to be even cooler.

Windows can't regain even a second place as a development platform unless, ...
, it stops being windows. The negative connotation and "uncoolness," just
sticks to anything that remotely touches Microsoft. Unless they can do
something like a total market and product production approach U-turn as a
company, they can't change their trajectory into the dustbin of history.

~~~
romanovcode
Oh, hi guy from Starbucks with lots of stickers on his macbook writing nodejs
apps in VIM.

Linux was never cool and will probably never will. Mac is cool because they
had the amazing marketers, but nowadays it's getting more and more lame.

~~~
maxscam
You try and defend windows, but give absolutely no defence other than the fact
that Unix isnt cool.

~~~
romanovcode
I had no word "windows" in my comment. Windows never was cool and never will
be cool. It just works.

------
flukus
Doesn't this break every policy the app store has about what programs can and
can't do? This has full system access and every other app is constraint to the
file dialog to get write permissions.

~~~
guftagu
Windows store also has full/legacy Win32 apps. See the Evernote app in the
store, its regular old Win32

~~~
flukus
I thought it had "full win32" support, ie, you can run win32 apps but they
have to be modified. It's clear as mud though, MS says one thing but their
windows store migration guide says another. The existence of the migration
guide is rather telling though.

~~~
contextfree
Desktop Bridge (Centennial) apps are modified to use the same appx packaging
and installer format used by UWP apps. Unlike true UWAs they run with user
privileges, not inside an app container, and so they have the same filesystem
access as the user.

They can be distributed through the store but the onboarding process is much
more arduous than with true UWAs (for which the Store acceptance process is
largely automated since they're relying on the app container for security).
AIUI to submit an unsandboxed app they expect you to already be an established
developer and submit a request, wait for them to do a bunch of manual
investigation of who you are and get back to you, etc.

------
SpaceManNabs
Very excited! Been using the WSL for a bit now to do tensorflow and python
stuff. Just a bit of tweaking to get it all to work (less than an hour), and I
get to dual boot less frequently now.

~~~
kbumsik
Why not installing tensorflow on Windows directly? The WSL does not currently
support accessing hardware like GPU so there is no benefit of using tensorflow
on WSL.

~~~
SpaceManNabs
I am not too familiar with developing on windows directly. Don't feel like
learning all the tools when I am already so comfortable in Unix like
environments.

------
laktak
Never used the Windows Store - do I need to register or can I download Ubuntu
without a Microsoft account?

~~~
microtheo
No, everything that is free can be downloaded without account. It's actually
the only platform I'm familiar with (android, iOS, MacOS) that allow users to
do so. Really convenient for computers that we install at costumer site.

~~~
digi_owl
Well i'll be damned. When i looked into this a while back i had to register
(used an old hotmail account i have sitting around for when i have to interact
with MS) before getting anything done.

~~~
digi_owl
Responding to myself here to document a few things.

Seems that MS distinguishes between a desktop/laptop install and a tablet
install.

I have a cheap 8" x86 tablet i picked up, and there i have to log in to grab
even free apps. But if i use my laptop, i can grab free apps without logging
in.

------
m_mueller
how are file endings handled with WSL? last time I tried using git & sublime
text on Windows with some version of cygwin it would checkout a repo with
windows file endings, which broke all the bash scripts. if it uses POSIX file
endings, how about opening the files with windows applications like VS?

Edit: Also, does the windows terminal now have some sane colour scheme? I
could never make it work to not show me some completely unreadable colors,
like dark blue text on black ground or light yellow on white.

~~~
jstarks
WSL doesn't change the line endings, so you'll want to make sure that if you
use Git for Windows along with it, you set it up to use Unix line endings.
Most decent editors (including VS and VSCode) can handle LFs just fine. The
most annoying gap is Notepad.

We are definitely aware of the problems with the terrible color scheme. I
don't remember right now if we have done anything about it quite yet... but it
should be coming. In the meantime you can adjust the colors manually.

~~~
jhasse
Btw: I can recommend Notepad2-mod:
[https://xhmikosr.github.io/notepad2-mod/](https://xhmikosr.github.io/notepad2-mod/)
It can replace Notepad and understands LFs.

You can install it with Chocolatey
[https://chocolatey.org/packages/notepad2-mod](https://chocolatey.org/packages/notepad2-mod)
which will automatically set it up as a Notepad replacement :)

------
snarfy
It's a bit misleading. Unless you're on Windows Insider builds this isn't
available until the windows 10 fall update.

------
dcow
2017: the year of the Linux desktop.

~~~
etatoby
With no actual Linux kernel code. Oh, the irony.

At least they have the decency to call it Ubuntu and not Linux in the
promotional material.

Personally, I would have called it Line (Line Is Not an Emulator) or Eniw

~~~
rkeene2
LINE was a real thing 16+ years ago, probably still on sourceforge. It allowed
you to execute native Linux binaries on Windows, similar to WSL.

[https://sourceforge.net/projects/line/](https://sourceforge.net/projects/line/)

------
TheChosen
Is it worth installing Ubuntu via the Windows store or would we be better off
running it through VirtualBox?

------
maxscam
Is this different from the linux subsystem microsoft already supports? Which
is nice, and would,be worthwhile if i had enough motivation to use windows gui
programs, but is limited given that you have to jump through an extra hoop to
run linux gui programs, and cant even access your linux partitions from it

------
dm319
Did you mean gnu/windows?

-rms

:)

~~~
tremon
It's actually gnu/nt. WSL completely bypasses the windows APIs and talks to
the kernel directly, AFAIU.

~~~
etatoby
That's because Dave Cutler (of DEC VMS fame) specifically designed the NT
kernel to make it easy to add new ABIs. NT originally supported running Win32,
OS/2, and POSIX executables. Now apparently they added Linux executables.

------
vurso
While Windows is in a good place right now, its not great.

I have been a Windows guy for a long time but for the past couple of years I
have been waiting for the day when I can finally ditch it and move over to a
pure _nix platform.

I want to do this because I understand _nix, specifically have worked with
Debian for a long time so I am aware of how good the base architecture of
Unix-Like OSes are - its that good because it was well thought out from the
early days.

Being a .NET developer I am literally waiting for the moment when I can
unshackle myself from Windows 10.

Windows 10 is good, its about as good as we will get with the current bloated
architecture and while I suspect the direction the OS will take is to become a
VMlike app on a version of "windows-is-linux-not-bash" offering from Microsoft
that day is a long way off.

Its all the little things that destroy productivity and become major time
sinks. Individually we could say they are related to whatever product is
causing them but collectively they can seriously eff up your professional
working day.

MacBook's are great, hardware is where Apple really excels and no one can take
away the great productivity to be had on the operating system which is based
on the awesome BSD but the buy-in is ridiculously expensive.

As someone said pound-for-pound we can get better offerings from other vendors
which will soften the shitty experience on Windows however what you get with
Apple is quality and you can confidently state that you will get a good
experience (provided you get good enough Apple hardware).

Here is where the problem is, the buy-in is expensive and then you are hurt
even more when you realise you need to upgrade to get a better experience
later down the line.

Conversely we can argue that because the BSD-like OS requires less resources
it operates much better for less hardware.

I really do hope Windows becomes an "experience" on some BSD/Unix like OS that
would open up a world of possibilities.

------
etatoby
At least they have the decency to call it Ubuntu and not Linux in the
promotional material, seeing as it does not contain any Linux kernel code.

Personally, I would have called it Line (= Line Is Not an Emulator) or Eniw.

------
Lambent
How can I have it run a server in the background/after I close the window?
(Either that or it already runs in the background)

------
iKenshu
But can I access to my desktop, documents, music folder and create archives or
more folders to development environment?

~~~
wornohaulus
Yes.. save file in cd
/mnt/c/Users/$"%USERPROFILE%"/(Desktop|Documents|Downloads|Music|Video)/

------
nimitbhardwaj
Its really nice

