

Just the Bill - nickmolnar2
http://justthebill.com

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nickmolnar2
We created this service as a side project with @providentmike in some free
cycles we had in our software development company (staging.thirdi.com).

We went from back-of-napkin to Beta in about a month, and are wondering if we
have already hit a minimum viable product. We can accept expenses from
Blackberries only, but we are working hard on an email submission process
which opens up the iPhone/every other smartphone.

Other than that, what would it take to make this something that could satisfy
your businesses expensing needs?

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crocowhile
I would say: \- release the API \- make an iphone app

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nickmolnar2
That's a good one. We definitely don't want to be making native clients for
every platform out there. It's on the to-do list, I'll see how far up we can
push it.

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ABrandt
My BlackBerry Storm 9530 v4.7.0.148 is giving me the error "Uncaught
exception: java.lang.NullPointerException" when I try to send in a receipt
with the app. Also, when I try to submit from the "Add more details" screen,
my BB menu is activated and no submission occurs.

EDIT: I do really like the app overall though. You've definitely got me on the
hook with your design and copy.

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nickmolnar2
Thanks for the heads up. Is there any chance you'd be able to send over the
diagnostic logs. It is an option in the Application Menu in the app, and would
help speed along our fix.

Admittedly, we haven't tested it on a Storm yet. We'll get on that.

Thanks for the support. We'll let you know when you can properly use the app.

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ABrandt
No problem, I sent the logs now (at least I think so, I got no confirmation).
I'll be waiting to hear from you.

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bgriggs1
One other note- I know you are going for MVP, but don't completely through
branding out the window.

Where's the logo? Even if you don't have one, let's at least get the name
somewhere above the fold. And it's a good name.

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nickmolnar2
We're working on the logo. It'll be up, well above the fold, soon enough.

Thanks. We like the name too.

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bgriggs1
I would consider defining the BlackBerry requirement immediately. Yes, I see
the image, but why wouldn't I think you're just using that as a default phone
image? You're risking high frustration if they don't catch the supported
platforms note.

As far MVP, if it works and you can start exploring product/market fit with
rapid iterations (add more lean buzzwords here)...then of course!

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nickmolnar2
We've already had a few of those complaints. We will rework the language to
make the Blackberry requirement more obvious.

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gridspy
Just a thought - if you provide an interface just after "scanning" the bill
where you can easily tap line items to get a total it would make splitting a
bill much easier.

You might also provide a way of tapping the number of people who shared the
meal to split the bill (quick and painless divide) or an easy way to calculate
a tip.

Finally, being able to tag line items then and there could be useful - say you
purchase some stuff from the supermarket and a couple of those items are
business while the rest are personal.

Looks like a beautifully simple first step. Well done.

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lpolovets
Nice homepage. Some screenshots would be very helpful in evaluating the
product.

Not sure if you've considered different business models, but mint.com's
strategy of offering cost saving alternatives could work well here. Something
like "you've spent 500 on office supplies this month.. did you know you could
save $300/year with an OfficeMax mastercard? [affiliate link here]"

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nickmolnar2
We've certainly been talking about the idea. I think that this is positioned a
little differently from Mint. People are far more willing to pay for business
software (especially the kind that cuts down on manual labour) than they are
on personal efficiency software.

I think that leaves us some room to charge a reasonable monthly fee for some
premium features. That is an easier, and more direct, business model.

The Mint-style stuff might come later if we have a big enough audience.

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shin_lao
You ought to add working SSL (certificate is invalid and when I choose to add
an account, it doesn't switch to SSL).

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nickmolnar2
That fix is already in the works.

Thanks

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nwatson
I saw a presentation by Expensify once: <https://www.expensify.com/>

It looked like a very full-featured system that does what "Just the Bill"
seems to do and more. It was integrated with various credit card company
backends.

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JoelMcCracken
This is probably one of the few things I would actually purchase, because it
seems like it would make my life much easier.

However, you do need integration. If, for example, you could integrate with
mint, you'll be gold.

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nickmolnar2
We've been aiming this for a bit more of a corporate audience than Mint's. We
think this works particularly well in situations with multiple employees and a
single bookkeeper. Of course, we'd like to make a product that works for
individuals too, but we are starting off by focusing on our strengths.

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T_S_
I use XpenseTracker, an iphone app simply because it allows me to shoot a
picture of the receipt and build an expense report as I travel. You can
compare and tell me.

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jamiequint
The site is really clean and well designed. How do you guys differ from
<http://www.shoeboxed.com>?

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prawn
+1'ing the clean design. Looks great, but I think you should add a couple more
pages (unless I'm missing them) to give people more to view before they make
that 'sign-up or leave' decision. Even just showing a closer screenshot (I
love to see real data rather than a small screenshot - helps me imagine how I
might use a service personally) and explaining how it corrects OCRed text,
etc.

Might be interesting to try and work in something to find out why people
aren't interested in signing up also: don't have a Blackberry, don't
understand the benefits, don't need this and just looking around, etc.

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shawndrost
For something like this, you might want a "Privacy" link. I also tend to put
much more stock in sites with an "About" page -- not sure if that's universal.
The black bar along the top is a fine place for these links, and I don't think
adding them would detract from the site's usability.

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nickmolnar2
You're right. And as the copywriter for the site, I'm feeling a bit sheepish
for not pressing to include that in the 1.0.

If you'd like to find out more about us, you can always go to
staging.thirdi.com (our new site is going up soon, we thought we'd point
there) or providentsecurity.ca.

A proper 'About' page is in the pipeline.

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eries
Looks pretty MVP-ish to me, especially given the comments here so far. Hope
you'll share some data on what you've learned and some stories of what you
experienced. Was it scary to put up the MVP? In retrospect, are there features
you could have cut and still learned the same amount?

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nickmolnar2
Keep your eyes on senses.thirdi.com. We'll be posting all kinds of stories and
lessons from this project (and a few other neat projects we are working on
right now).

Plenty more lessons to be learned, too, I suspect.

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tworats
Have you seen <http://xpenser.com/> ? Lets you record expenses from email,
SMS, Twitter, IM, iPhone, browser search box, voice (call and say it), etc.

They also have a full set of APIs. Maybe you could build on top of their
system.

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zck
Sigh, I had this idea about a month ago and did about a day's worth of hacking
on it. At least, a similar idea. I wanted to generate a report at the end of a
month to check my credit card statement against. I'm too lazy to do it by
hand, but with a decent app, I'd do it.

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ramidarigaz
Ooooh. I may just finally get around to buying a nice phone. I'm horrible with
receipts, and this looks perfect for my needs. JoelMcCracken commented that it
would be awesome if you could integrate with mint, but even if you don't, this
still is awesome.

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Brushfire
I'm curious as to what OCR library you are using? I've had issues getting 100%
reads in the past on related projects, and I've love to hear how you deal with
image de-skewing and OCR.

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nickmolnar2
We aren't doing OCR right now. We are using your bookkeeper's eyes as the OCR.
It is close to 100% effective, if not as space-agey.

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houseabsolute
Seems like you've hit on a great idea here.

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kylebragger
Looks great, I just can't figure out how to actually add any data.

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kylebragger
Ah, so it's a BB app which I guess I photograph the receipts with? Also, not
digging the password via email thing.

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kylebragger
Not sure how it shortens _my_ signup, but interesting point re: the "share"
feature. At first glance made me think "oh I hope they're not storing
passwords in plaintext".

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nickmolnar2
Don't worry. We aren't storing anything in plaintext. SHA-1 with a 256-bit
salt.

Sorry, I was a little confused about the password-via-email comment. No, it
doesn't shorten your reg. Only the share. We include the password for easy
record-keeping for users. Also, we don't keep anything of value on JTB. It is
just receipts. No bank account numbers or CC numbers. Just like a paper
receipt.

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cliff
You're still sending the password I entered back to me in an email in
plaintext, even if you're not keeping it.

This is considered horrible practice.

I was excited about your product until I received an email with my password in
it.. it just killed my enthusiasm. At some point I'll look back, but for a
site that stores financial data...kinda scary.

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fredBuddemeyer
super idea. needs more direction right after you register, remember nobody
wants to think about things - thats exactly what you are tapping here.

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nickmolnar2
We definitely have a long way to go in terms of new-user flow. This should be
dead simple, and give some positive reinforcement to get people to cross the
chasm.

I think once someone uploads 3 receipts to this thing they are going to be
hooked, but that is a big jump.

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zackattack
how does the technology work?

