
Aldi, a brutally efficient grocery chain, is upending America's supermarkets - oftenwrong
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2019/05/business/aldi-walmart-low-food-prices/index.html
======
froindt
I'm an industrial engineer and geek out about Aldi frequently. Here are a few
things I've noticed (and researched) which differentiate them from others.

-they have barcode on 5 or 6 sides of their products, and they're typically huge! They nearly never need to orient a product to scan it. Their scan speed is far faster than any other supermarket I've been at.

-if two products are very similar, they'll change the packaging in an obvious way. Blueberry and blackberry yogurt typically look very similar, but the lids are obviously dark and light purple at Aldi. They can glance down and count how many of each, scan one, then hit the number pad for the quantity. I haven't seen the number pad used extensively at any other grocer.

-they combine varieties (like flavors of granola bars) of product in the same box. This greatly reduces the shelf space required.

-depositing a quarter for a cart eliminates the need to pay people to collect carts

-they keep product the box from the manufacturer. This eliminates labor from unboxing and facing product.

-they don't have plastic bags. You can grab boxes (normally a waste stream) and take them home with you.

-they don't list a phone number for their stores. With as few as 2 people on site during the slow times, they can't afford to have anyone on the phone.

-their conveyor belt is far longer than most stores. You should be able to get your entire cart worth of groceries on the conveyor at once. This minimizes the slowness of people handing one item at a time to the next checker.

-They're big on turning inventory over. If they trial a product and it doesn't sell well enough, they have no problem simply not carrying it anymore. You can't always get everything set Aldi, but you can get 85-95% of items you need there.

-they wanted to avoid vendor lock-in, so they had two POS vendors develop solutions simultaneously, awarding the contract to the one which provided the best solution.

~~~
hobofan
> depositing a quarter for a cart eliminates the need to pay people to collect
> carts

What's the alternative? Growing up in Germany I've literally never seen it any
other way.

~~~
xvedejas
In the US I have never had to deposit any money to use a cart. I'm not sure
how that would even work, is it some automated machine that spits out a cart?

~~~
Karunamon
It's similar to the "SmartECart" luggage cart kiosks you may have seen at
airports. Sliding a cart in locks it in place on a set of rails, depositing
the money releases a mechanical catch on the end, allowing you to pull one
cart out.

~~~
theoh
You might be thinking of this system used by Ikea.
[https://youtu.be/JRXdlgBe8wg](https://youtu.be/JRXdlgBe8wg)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarte_Carte](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarte_Carte)
looks like it might be the airport system you have in mind.

The usual European shopping cart system works with a coin deposit, chains and
mechanical locks on each cart, as described in several other comments.

------
sofaofthedamned
My sister has worked in Aldi in the UK for 15 years. She loves it.

She started as a normal member of staff - they expect people to pitch in -
you're on the checkout, moving boxes, helping deliveries, etc. Nobody is
immune from having to do work.

She's now an Area Manager and still pitches in when visiting a store - she
doesn't walk around with a clipboard, she helps the staff to do their job.

The wages are so much better than other supermarkets in the UK, but they
expect you to work for them. Our local Aldi has been closed for 5 months while
they rebuild it. I miss it so much. The Tesco nearby is far more expensive and
has staff just chatting. The Lidl is more austere but is more efficient and
cheaper. As soon as it opens again i'll be doing 90% of my shop there.

~~~
ljf
I was running a table at a graduate fair for my company and stood opposite the
Aldi grad scheme guys. The grad salary ofter 5 years (if you are accepted on
the programme) was great (£75k) and they expected you to be managing multiple
stores in an area. They had quite a queue of students.

[https://www.aldirecruitment.co.uk/area-manager-
programme/our...](https://www.aldirecruitment.co.uk/area-manager-
programme/our-area-manager-programmes/graduate-area-manager-programme/)

~~~
opportune
I find it so weird how in the UK and much of the rest of europe, store
managers and lots of blue collar jobs get paid so much more than software
developers, even at large companies.

~~~
foota
Are you saying your software engineers make below 75k?

~~~
opportune
No, I live in the US. But from what I've heard about software engineer
salaries in the UK, even at most large multinationals (except only Google?),
it seems someone with 5 yoe as a store manager at Aldis in the UK makes
(afaik) more than basically every software engineer with 5 yoe in the UK

~~~
toomanybeersies
I don't see why an area manager for Aldi stores shouldn't be getting paid a
lot of money. It's not exactly an unskilled job, it just doesn't require
extensive qualifications. You're managing large numbers of employees over
several different stores.

Some days I feel bad about how much money I make as a software engineer. It's
an _easy_ job. All I do is sit at a computer and write some code for a few
hours a day. I don't have to manage employees or stock or anything like that,
I just listen to music and hammer away at a keyboard.

~~~
mwilliaams
Maybe it’s easy for you and many HN readers, but it’s hard for the average
person. There aren’t many people that understand how to program, and there are
much fewer who understand how to program _well_.

At my tech company of around 30 people, even the most technically inclined
employees don’t really understand programming. And I think my developer
colleague is in the category that cannot program well. (I would optimistically
say that I can.)

------
ThJ
Most of the stuff they're doing seems to be entirely commonplace for the
supermarket chains we have here in Norway.

The coins for the carts.

Stacking crates instead of individual items.

Training every employee for everything (it's not uncommon to see a store
manager operating the cash register).

Expecting customers to fill their own bags and charging for those bags.

Smaller selection.

The only unique part seems to be the tendency to promote the shop's own brand
over name brands.

On a related note: Lidl tried and failed to get a foothold here in Norway with
similar tactics. It didn't work. Perhaps because our mainstream store chains
are already so similar to Lidl, except our domestic chains offer actual name
brand products and the Lidl stores didn't, and I think that's why they failed.
Also, people who are really desperate to save money can just go to Sweden to
shop. It's not a very long drive.

~~~
amelius
Seems like most of the points you listed are a deterioration from the
customer's perspective.

~~~
itronitron
Based on my experience that's pretty standard for european grocery stores. No
cashier in Europe is ever going to bag your groceries.

Despite bagging your own groceries being a universal experience I haven't yet
seen a local properly use a self-serve checkout kiosk. Instead of scanning an
item and putting it in a bag on the weighing platform they instead scan the
items and put them on the weighing platform, then pay, then put the items in
the cart, move the cart towards the store exit and then bag their groceries.

~~~
rini17
I tried to, but it's impossible to resist temptation to rearrange stuff in the
bags on weighing platform. The machine then seizes with complaint about
unexpected stuff in bagging area. So I gave up on that.

~~~
itronitron
The first two times I used the self-serve kiosk the machine complained
constantly about unexpected stuff, and I noticed that I had placed my bags up
to the edge of the platform. Now I place them in the middle of the platform
and the machine seems happy. Either that or the store adjusted the sensitivity
on the machines, hope that helps.

------
post_break
I guess I'm a weirdo who likes shopping there. Compared to Kroger or HEB I
usually walk out of Aldi with a bill 50% cheaper than the other stores. We
have our own bags and a picnic like basket thing we keep in the truck for Aldi
stops. Yes it's "generic" but my uncle worked for a big food company that made
big brand food and "generic" is often just a label change over the brand name.
I can see why the rich people would think it's like shopping for food at the
salvation army. No selection, a quarter to get a cart, 4-6 isles, no in car
delivery, you have to bag your stuff yourself. I'll take all of those
inconveniences if it means I spend 50% less per trip to the grocery store to
feed us.

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
> a quarter to get a cart, 4-6 isles, no in car delivery, you have to bag your
> stuff yourself.

Europe.

~~~
wvh
I think I just started to understand why the US has such a low unemployment
rate but so many are paid minimal wage...

~~~
yardie
The US is the epitome of bullshit, bureaucratic jobs. Medical billing, for
example, is someone taking the list of procedures a medical office performs
and plugs that into a computer so that the "codes" the office uses can match
the "codes" the healthcare provider uses.

I know what you're thinking, that describes a LUT (lookup table). Yes, you
would be correct, a LUT is an actual profession in the USA.

~~~
rayiner
I’ve never encountered an example of a real “bullshit job” (but have
encountered a lot of ignorance about what different jobs entail.) Dealing with
medical billing codes is not just a table lookup. It’s actually quite fuzzy
and some judgment is required because the codes don’t match 1:1. (Not does the
procedure the doctor actually did match perfectly to any code.) (And you can
be criminally prosecuted for not doing it correctly if you’re talking about
Medicare or Medicaid.)

Grocery bagging, likewise, is hardly a bullshit job. I shop at whole foods
precisely so I don’t have to bag my own groceries. (And a good bagger can do
it far better than I can.)

~~~
maxerickson
How do you evaluate the quality of the bagging if you don't know how to do a
good job?

Are they just faster?

~~~
macintux
In my experience they’re faster, pack the bags with less wasted space (but not
heavily, just good at fitting things appropriately), and importantly they’re
not distracted by dealing with the cashier for payment or coupons or whatever
other questions may arise.

------
starbugs
It's quite impressive how things have turned. Not long ago Walmart was about
to disrupt the German supermarket landscape. They even tried to cut prices to
below market cost to conquer Aldi, Lidl, and the other big discount
supermarket chains. After a couple of years they gave up and left. Now Aldi
appears to be "fighting back" successfully in the US.

The history of Aldi's efficiency [0] is pretty impressive. It actually started
with two brothers nearly going broke with their small grocery store. Then they
realized that if they'd reduce the diversity of goods they offer and instead
sell only the most common goods in bulk, they could undercut the competition's
prices. This concept was so successful that it led to a multi billion dollar
business which is still dictating the prices of common groceries in Germany.

Still there are other supermarket chains that have adapted to the Aldi
strategy and are actually causing growth issues for Aldi. Their concept is to
offer basic goods at the same price as Aldi does, then upsell more special and
higher price items while offering a better shopping experience. I guess that's
what's going to happen in the US as well eventually.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi#History)

~~~
FabHK
It's not uncommon in Germany to go to Aldi first, then buy everything that you
could't get at the "full service" more expensive super market next door.

~~~
lqet
It's the only reasonable thing to do. REWE / Edeka / ... also have standard
groceries (yoghurt, cheese, pasta, cans of tomatoes, corn, etc) from their
discount brand which cost exactly as much as the Aldi product, but they are
usually _vastly_ inferior in taste and quality. Just go to REWE and buy a can
of ja! corn. It tastes like somebody yellow-painted puffed rice.

------
oflannabhra
So, "Aldi" actually means lots of different things. Two German brothers (Karl
and Theo Albrecht) formed ALDI in 1946. In the 60s, they split the company in
two, resulting in Aldi Nord (Theo) and Aldi Süd (Karl). In the '90s, the
brothers retired as CEOs and transferred ownership to family trusts.

The companies operate in different geographical areas. Originally, the
brothers split across the Rhine, but now Aldi Süd includes North America,
Australia, and half of Europe. Aldi Nord operates in the other half of Europe.

The same trust that owns Aldi Nord also owns Trader Joe's (acquired in 1979),
and they use similar operational values: (minimal advertising, limited
selection, private label goods, work ethic, etc)

Source:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi)

~~~
Someone
_”Two German brothers (Karl and Theo Albrecht) formed ALDI in 1946. In the
60s, they split the company in two”_

Brothers starting a company and splitting up later to produce two successful
companies seems to be a German thing. The Dassler brothers did it too, forming
Adidas and Puma
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adidas#Split_and_rivalry_with_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adidas#Split_and_rivalry_with_Puma))

Back to Aldi: it always surprises me that the two Aldi’s don’t get accused of
forming a cartel. It is fairly clear that they agreed to split the market. I
guess that doesn’t get them into trouble because a) there are other large
players and b) they can’t be accused of doing it to prevent a price war.

~~~
detaro
AFAIK when it comes to (German) competition/cartel law, they're in some ways
considered as if they were a single entity. There's a rule treating companies
that openly strongly align like that as if they were commonly owned, so they
can't pretend to compete with each other, presumably if one tried to buy an
actual competitor the market position of both would be taken into account, ...
So yes, it'd be trouble if they in sum started to dominate the market etc.

------
AdmiralAsshat
In addition to being the cheapest, I'm often impressed by the quality of some
of Aldi's pantry staples. Specifically, I'm blown away by their onions. I buy
a bag of onions every 1-3 weeks. Since I can't individually inspect every
onion in the bag, I'm resigned to the fact that anywhere from 10-30% of the
onions will be unusable when I start to cut into them and find the rot. This
is true of pretty much every grocer I've ever shopped at, with some faring
worse than others (I remember almost _half_ of the onions I'd get from an
average bag at Target were unusable). Not so at Aldi's. I can buy a bag and
every onion in the bag will have a nice, firm skin that feels fresh and tight
when peeled, rather than old and slimy.

I suspect it's probably shelf life more than anything else--if they keep just
enough stock of them that they're constantly being bought and restocked, they
don't have time to sit on the shelf and wilt.

~~~
zepearl
A friend of mine worked for a logistic company and he told me many times that
dealing with Aldi was a nightmare for them because they were extremely
demanding:

very thin profit margin, tough quality checks (when delivering the items to
the warehouses the checks were done on many more samples and in a much more
detailed way than what other supermarket chains did) and if the truck arrived
at the warehouse anytime after the agreed delivery time you were basically
screwed (ranging from at least having to provide a discount to the whole
delivery being rejected therefore having to find another chain willing to buy
it or just throw it away).

All this might as well explain (additionally to your "shelf life") the good &
cheap onions.

I'm an onion lover - Go onions! :)

(ps: this is just a neutral comment - so far I mostly ignored Aldi, excluding
the exercise bike I bought from them which is still working perfectly ~3 years
later)

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
High standards and tight margins? Sounds like Apple.

~~~
odux
Tight margins and Apple don't belong in the same sentence

~~~
Redoubts
I think they’re referring to the suppliers perspective.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Correct.

------
hn_throwaway_99
I think the point that this article drove home to me is that a lot of Aldi's
"bare bones" mentality actually leads to a _better_ experience for most
shoppers, even separate from the lower prices. For example, the comment from a
customer about the store layout making it easier to get in and out with kids
in tow. The Aldi store brands have a reputation for good quality without the
"50 kinds of salsa" paralysis of choice. The register lines move faster
because there is no bagging. Store employees are more helpful because they are
cross-trained, etc.

I think this contrasts with a place like WalMart where employees are often
less-than-helpful, so much of the products are low quality, etc.

~~~
mongol
The "50 kinds of salsa" paralysis is so real. Some shops have a great
selection, everything looks tasty, exciting, worthwhile to buy but you can
only buy so much. In Lidl, there is no problem of choice, because much less to
choose from, you are relieved from having to choose. I prefer it for staples.

------
kyokpae
Fun fact: one of the founders of Aldi was kidnapped in 1971. A ransom of $3M
was paid. After he had been released he fought a court battle to classify it
as tax deductible business expense.

Source:
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandco...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9729434/Billionaire-
Aldi-heir-Berthold-Albrecht-dies-at-58.html)

------
lqet
As a German, I frequently enjoy tourists being unable to cope with the speed
of Aldi cashiers. They have the possibility to begin scanning the products of
the next customer while you are still paying, which adds additional stress if
you are not used to it. If it takes you longer than one second to answer the
mantra-like "Bar oder Karte?" ("cash or credit card?"), the cashier will stay
friendly, but get visibly annoyed, because if you quickly say "Bar", she will
actually begin to count out _the change she expects you to receive_ while you
haven't even opened your wallet yet (for example, if it costs 17.95, she will
expect you to pay with a 20 and count out 2.05)

I think Aldi is the best supermarket in the world, but it certainly is an
acquired taste :)

------
tssva
In the last year in my neighborhood Aldi and Lidl have opened up stores across
the street from each other. Lidl announced they were building a store and the
following week Aldi announced they were opening their store across from them
in a space which used to be another grocery store.

Aldi should have been able to open long before Lidl but the renovation of the
space took forever. Whenever I drove by the were ever at most a handful of
workers and for periods of time no work got done.

Lidl had to wait until their proposed building gained zoning approval to start
construction which was several months after Aldi began construction; however,
whenever I drove by the Lidl site it was full of construction workers. They
managed to open only 3 or 4 months after the Aldi when it should have been at
least 8 months after.

During the 3 months before Lidl opened Aldi did good business due to their low
prices but no one I spoke to was thrilled with the place. The inside was dark
and uninviting. The vegetable and fruit selection was poor and in very bad
condition. Often it was moldy or wilted. The selection was awful but everyone
assumed that was part of what you traded for the low prices.

Lidl opened and the building is full of light and welcoming. There is a
frequently changing selection of quality fruit and vegetables. In almost all
product categories Lidl has more selection with prices similar and frequently
lower than Aldi.

The Lidl has remained constantly busy since opening and the Aldi has become a
ghost town. If the experience here is typical than Aldi is going to have a
tough fight on it's hands as Lidl expands in the US.

~~~
HillaryBriss
> Lidl announced they were building a store and the following week Aldi
> announced they were opening their store across from them

long ago, that was supposedly Burger King's strategy too: wait for McDonalds
to spend the time and effort to research where to put one of their
restaurants, then open a Burger King across the street.

------
geff82
I live in Aldi's motherland and even if I could easily afford to buy groceries
in other stores from major brands I usually go to Aldi first, buying the 10%
they do not sell later somewhere else. Why? Because I blindly trust them. What
they sell is usually good quality with a good taste (I even do not look at the
prices). The juices they sell: perfect. The fruits they sell: mostly sweet
(there is a fruit quality problem in Germany, as the country usually only gets
second grade fruits because of the low prices eveywhere). Milk, joghurt,
cheese: best quality. And I can actually remember where stuff is! So shopping
is fast. This is in stark contrast to most other retailers who try to trick
you into buying more by hiding stuff in unexpected places. Many years ago,
someone told me something from behind the scene at Aldi. She was working for a
producer of toilet paper and similar. She said: in contrast to other clients,
we are not allowed to produce one lot without some people from Aldi being
present. Before they produced for them, they had to call Aldi so they could
have engineers at the factory to oversee everything that was done. She said no
other customer did this. This really reinforced my trust in their Quality.

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
YMMV, but TP is one of the few things I _don 't_ buy from Aldi. We tried a
pack and the wipes felt like they were rice-paper thin.

~~~
taco_emoji
At least in the U.S., TP is one of the few things that's differentiated--they
have 3-5 different ones, each a clone of a different brand like Charmin Ultra
or Quilted Northern or Angel Soft. There's a little thing in the corner of the
packaging that says "Compare to Cottonelle" or whatever. I took a photo of the
one we like so I know which to get next time :)

------
siruncledrew
IMO, what Aldi succeeds in is doing more with less. Aldi's aisles, stores, and
product ranges are smaller compared to big grocery stores. However, Aldi
leverages a 'curated assortment' of products to offer good quality items at a
lower price than other grocery stores. There's also 1 "Aldi Finds" aisle in
the stores which seems like it's to beta test potential items or offer short-
term deals on limited items (? - just my guess).

The German discount grocery chains are really taking off in the US with Aldi
and Lidl. I would like Rewe to come to the US next.

~~~
sofaofthedamned
The 'curated assortment' bit is interesting.

If I go into my local Tesco, which isn't a huge ones, they've got about 15
types of coleslaw. The Lidl has 2. But they're nice ones. The cheapest is not
awful, like the cheap Tesco one. The most expensive isn't ridiculously priced,
but it is superb.

Baked beans - one type at Lidl, their own brand, but it's nicer than Heinz
these days. The dishwasher tablets are half the price of the branded ones but
better in my dishwasher.

I honestly love both Aldi and Lidl. They do have their gaps (you need to do
~10% of your shop in Tesco for these) but for the rest...

~~~
dingaling
Lidl do have some shortcomings.

Other than a couple of wobbly bicycle racks out the front of the local store,
Lidl UK are entirely car-orientated, in every aspect from location of the
store to making pedestrians walk through the car park without pavements. That
surprised me for a European chain.

My other main gripe with Lidl is that they don't do home delivery. I'm not
going to walk 25 minutes to their store, dice with cars and then haul
groceries home when Tesco will bring shopping into my kitchen for £4.

------
londons_explore
Aldi is famous for paying managers a _lot_ of money. Far more than similar
roles at other grocery stores. Not just 10% more, but in many cases 100% more.

Perhaps paying extra money for better brains leads to better decisions being
made in the long run.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
It is unusual for a business that is so cost focused to do that. Normally low
margin businesses can't turn off that frugal mentality when it comes to
rewarding staff.

------
learntofly
I used to work for the UK's largest Supermarket Chain. In 2012 when an ALDI
was due to open close to a store I managed, head office sent in a delegate
from the small "Continental Discounter" (ALDI/LIDL) team who explain that the
ALDI brand was a cleverly worked phallacy, it wasn't cheaper, the products
weren't better and customers didn't like it as much as people made out.

Six years later, the impact of ALDI and LIDL have effected fundamental change
in the giant, Supermarket Chain, the whole corporate strategy seems to emulate
what ALDI does well and there is a pilot where some of the smaller stores are
rebranded under a different name and basically modelled on a German
discounter.

ALDI and LIDL have changed the UK supermarket landscape in a fundamental way
and customers seem to love it.

------
thinkling
Another thing: I'm guessing they don't have paid staff to bag groceries for
customers like many US stores, but what they may have that's common in Europe
but unknown in the US: the boat-tiller-like divider in the conveyor belt space
past the cashier.

Customer A's things get rung up and continue to side A. When done with
customer A, the cashier shoves the divider across so the belt now takes
customer B's stuff to side B while customer A continues to put their stuff in
their bag or their cart.

My DuckDuck-Fu is failing me to find a picture of this.

~~~
bunderbunder
At least at the Aldi I shop at, they don't even have that. The cashier is at
the very end of the line; the next thing past them is a shopping cart, and
scanned items get placed directly into it.

When you're done paying, you wheel that cart away, leave the one you had in
its place, and go to a separate counter where you can bag or box your stuff.

If you had a basket, you throw the basket in the cart, the cashier drops stuff
in there, and you take it with you. Which, they didn't mention this in the
article, but that's also nice - it encourages customers to put their baskets
back in the stack by the door. Which, again, saves everyone time. Employees
don't have to stop what they're doing to collect baskets and move them to the
door, and customers don't have to wander around the checkout aisles looking
for baskets stashed under the conveyor when the stack by the door is empty
because things are too busy for that to happen.

~~~
lostapathy
"scanned items get placed directly into it."

More like thrown into it - or if you're lucky, dropped into it, at my local
Aldi. You learn not to put canned goods ahead of bread on the belt so that
cans don't land on your bread.

~~~
bunderbunder
Aldi staff are pretty high-performing at what they're paid to do. So much so
that successfully shopping at Aldi may be even more skilled a profession than
working there.

It's part of the charm. :)

------
pygar
Aldis Checkout lines are always so long and everyone is buying a months worth
of groceries when I'm there that i won't shop there most of the time. The
staff are very fast but customers are slow to bag/move the items.

I don't shop in bulk, I buy groceries for one person and i buy a handful of
items every few days.

The competitors in Australia (Coles and Woolworths) all have about 10-15 self
checkout machines, so the chances that i have to wait for one to be free is
small.

I accept that if i go to Aldi, I'll probably find most of the items i buy
cheaper, but they are usually within 0-10c of the private label brands of the
other supermarkets.

Aldis success has pushed down everyone's prices (to as low as they can get,
while staying with their current setup). If you combine the faster turn around
time, with the greater variety (I occasionally like trying new brands/items)
of the "traditional" store, It's worth the ~10% premium (for me).

On a side note: Over here, Aldi designates only one lane (out of the two or
three that are open) for purchasing of Alcohol. Can anyone explain why?

------
usr1106
Ah, the Americans have not forced Aldi on their knees and have them change the
checkouts.

Finland used to have a oligopoly of pretty expensive grocery chains and no
price competition. Until Lidl (another German chain very similar to the Aldis)
entered some 16 years ago and started real price competition. Of course with
their efficient checkouts.

The first years Lidl didn't do so well. Then they changed the checkouts to the
less efficient local models (and some other adaptations) and started doing
pretty well. They just learned their lesson that in Finland you can sell the
same product with a 30% premium compared to Germany and accept some
inefficiency. Of course they are still a bit cheaper than the incumbants.

Finns are very proud of having defeated a multinational giant (and don't see
that they have to pay for it). Like Germans have defeated Google when it comes
to street view, although that price if there is any is more difficult to
measure.

~~~
hn23
Let me know when you find out what the price for the missing street view is;)

------
mlok
The best quality/price laptops I've bought in the last couple of decades were
from Aldi (their brands : Medion and Lifetec) It took 5 years for the
competition to reach the same offering at that price. (That was in 2002, now
it's less spectacular) I kept using these laptop for 5-7 years...

------
Improvotter
It's strange to see this hit the US only just now. Chains like these are huge
in Europe. In Belgium, where I live, Aldi isn't very big. They're being
outplayed by a bigger local player: Colruyt. Aldi stores are usually pretty
small while Colruyt stores are pretty large. You can see the staff driving
around carts inside of the store to put everything on the shelves. They also
always have a huge refrigerator room instead of seperate refrigerators. It
allows for them to drive into these rooms so everything is faster as well.

Colruyt also got subsidiaries that have smaller stores for city centres like
Okay which is just a tad smaller because it's in the city centres. Colruyt's
own stores are often in smaller cities or around towns where there's plenty of
room to build a store.

The reason Aldi is not very big in Belgium is because they're perceived as
being lower quality. Perhaps it's because people don't want to change brands,
but want to pay a lower price. They can get the same items/brands at Colruyt,
but for a lower price. From personal experience I can also say that Aldi
stores aren't as pleasant to shop in as Colruyt. This is because Aldi's
aesthetics are pretty old. It feels like you're walking in some old store
that's from the 90s or older. Colruyt and Okay stores feel more like you're
walking into a warehouse.

Just my two cents. I just went shopping to Okay today and on other days I go
to a Spar, which is also a Colruyt subsidiary, but a tad bti more upscale.
Though not as upscale as Delhaize in Belgium. Delhaize is one of the more
expensive ones, though you also get some more upscale items like freshly made
juice, fresh sushi, fresh lobsters... compared to the others. They can be
either owned independently or by the chain. The ones that are owned
independently are imo better because they often have "home-made" food because
they've got a bakery, kitchen, and butcher and it's of good quality. (I
personally adore one of the Delhaize's bakeries at my parents' house.)

That's all. What a rant.

------
Glawen
Wow i didn't know that Aldi was in the US. Aldi and lidl keep opening stores
like crazy in Europe, there must be like 15 of them in my city in France.

They are great on price, and the high end product are actually nice. But the
rest is just average, and the cheese is really low quality (for french
standard i mean) . The most annoying thing is that i can never find all the
things i need. I just shop there for the basics : milk, egg, water, fruits and
occasionally the tools they sell.

The really good thing with aldi (more than lidl) is that they purchase local
food, and you can sometimes have really nice surprises.

~~~
chris11
For awhile I lived in a city with both an Aldi and a Trader Joes. Over all I
prefer Trader Joes, but Aldi had some cheap products I liked. And it was a
nice surprise when I found some random household item I needed.

------
demoo
Got a friend who is overseeing manager of about 5-6 Aldi supermarkets in my
area.

At the end of every day, every supermarket calls him with the daily results.
He writes them down, takes a picture and sends that to his manager at the
national HQ.

He just uses his phone and the occasional meeting to do business, there is no
computer/laptop or system on his end.

Aldi is always portrayed as brutally efficient. So I was wondering what to
read into this. Best I was able to come up with is that it's cheaper for them
not to have an overseeing system to manage this.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I've seen plenty of corporates automate systems that don't warrant automation.
Somehow development gains a momentum which nobody is able to stop. SAP sites
seemed to be the worst for this.

~~~
ahartmetz
Yes. When the org my sister worked at was trying and failing to automate
vacation tracking, I was curious and asked some questions. As a software guy,
I saw the frequent rules updates, hard to codify rules, increased effort to
fix mistakes, smallish headcount, and expensive consultants... and said: This
probably just does not make sense to automate.

------
mthwl
Just a quick alternative viewpoint: as a parent, I’ve been turned off by Aldi
in the past.

Often with a toddler and/or car seat in hand, unlocking a cart (for example)
is not just an inconvenience, it’s a dealbreaker.

I’m into the pursuit of efficiency and low prices, but there are some real
world benefits of “full service” grocery stores.

One being an nicer experience for the disabled (in my case, due to being a
parent).

I’m guessing they don’t have those motorized carts either?

Anyway, I’m happy that there are alternatives. We’ll probably give Aldi
another chance when our kids are older.

~~~
velcrovan
My kids are 3 and 5 and we've shopped at Aldi continuously since they were
born. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Unlocking a cart takes almost no
extra effort beyond what you'd expend to get one at any other store.

~~~
itronitron
Unlocking a cart is a foreign concept in the US. Not sure if the parent is in
the US but any grocery store that has locked carts there is doomed to fail.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
The entire article is about how Aldi is growing like crazy in the US, and
explains why they have locked carts. A far cry from "doomed to fail".

~~~
itronitron
Props to Aldi then, they are definitely disrupting supermarkets.

------
cagataygurturk
I am surprised that noone mentioned about the bottle collectors phenomenon in
Germany. [1] Basicly you pay a deposit (.25 eur for plastic ones, 0.08 for
glass.) for each beverage you buy and then sell those bottles back in
supermarkets. This is maybe the easiest and most efficient way to force people
to recycle. Are you lazy to do that or you don‘t have a place when you finish
your beer walking in the street?[2] Then you simply leave the bottle next to a
trash bin and in couple of minutes someone takes it to cash it back and call
for a day. It‘s a serious revenue stream for a large group of low income
people.

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/02/german-
cities-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/02/german-cities-
bottle-collectors)

[2] In a country famous with rules and strictness, it is also surprising to
see stuff which are not forbidden or no one simply cares, such as drinking on
street or public transport, quite openly shopping and using drugs, smoking in
bars etc. However some of these might be true only for Berlin, which became a
island of freedom in the middle of Europe.

~~~
ahartmetz
The drugs thing is only Berlin, at least in Germany. Drinking everywhere
(though not at all times) is normal in all of Germany AFAICT. It's legal and
nobody cares if you still behave.

~~~
tannhaeuser
Drug selling and smoking pot in the public (or even schools) is also not
uncommon in other major cities in Germany eg. Hamburg, Frankfurt, Köln, etc.
Hamburg has areas near the habour feeling quite extraterritorial in this
respect. Munich I don't know; it's a much cleaner place than those other
cities. Though drinking beer there and going to the _Biergarten_ is kind of
their way of living, and it's certainly a relaxed place with respect to
nudity, love affairs, and sex.

~~~
ahartmetz
Definitely not Munich. But Hamburg, Cologne and maybe other places, yes,
you're right.

------
antidaily
It's such a dump and yet, their wines and beers are pretty damn good. And they
have cheap organic produce. Just got to eat that day.

------
interfixus
> _Aldi, which expects its customers to endure a number of minor
> inconveniences not typical at other American grocery stores. Shoppers need a
> quarter to rent a shopping cart. Plastic and paper bags are available only
> for a fee. And at checkout, cashiers hurry shoppers away, expecting them to
> bag their own groceries in a separate location away from the cash register_

Interesting glimpse into a parallel universe. Everything mentioned is standard
practice in the parts of Europe I know, except the trolley fee is the
equivalent of two to four dollars. Where I live, that fee works as intended,
but I remember living in the UK more than thirty years ago - I regularly
scooped several pounds by picking up abandoned trolleys in the Safeway parking
lot and returning them to their designated shed.

As for bagging, I'd quickly turn hostile if anyone attempted to handle the
goods I just payed for.

------
petra
Most of those things are easy to do and easy to copy.

But how do you find private label suppliers for 1000+ products, how do you
know how to define great products, how do you verify that, and do you still
manage prices low ?

That's a key skill aldi acquired over decades, and it's really hard to copy.

~~~
bluGill
Most grocery stores have more private label products than Aldi. It isn't hard,
most produces of product will put whatever label you want one (within what is
legal) if you order a quantity.

~~~
petra
So if I go to a grocery store, and buy only their private labels - would the
products be great, as people here describe Aldi?

~~~
bluGill
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Private labels can set quality levels - for a
price - if they want to. Most are trying to be cheapest and so they don't.

Private labels order from the brand names. Sometimes they order a different
recipe, but often it is the exact same recipe as the name brand just the box
is different. If there is still more pickles in the vat after making 1000 jars
of the private label they will finish the vat into 17 jars of their brand.
Sometimes a batch will not meet the brand's quality standards (taste) but it
is still food safe so they dump it into a private label box with lower
standards.

------
chiefalchemist
> "New customers may be jolted at first by the experience of shopping at an
> Aldi, which expects its customers to endure a number of minor inconveniences
> not typical at other American grocery stores..."

The "unconvinces" listed are true. However, what I believe this article, and
the rest of the "super market" industry is missing is that inexchange
customers get simplicity and a sense of normalicy.

Aldi's success is as much about what they do offer (i.e., low prices) as what
they do not (e.g., a ridiculous number of peanut butters that overwhelm your
already saturated brain.)

My gut tells me there are lessons to be learned from this "trend" for other
brands and products.

------
hjk05
> without compromising on quality

This might be true of the new American stores but is definitely not true in
Northern Europe, they regularly have rotten fruit in the stands and I only
once dared buying the frozen fish which led to a nasty case of diarrhea. This
was back in my student days, when I realized paying 3% more for meat and vegs
was worth the extra cost if you can avoid spending 2 days in bed because of a
good price on salmon.

At the end of the day I can’t really blame the store personal, they where 2
people running everything, at a size that usually see 8+ for competing chains
and the wage was the absolute minimum allowed by law.

~~~
kachurovskiy
This is my experience as well in Germany. Fruits and vegetables are also quite
tasteless. Some common items are simply missing. I'm afraid same will happen
in US once the initial hype and attention to the details wear off and ROI
considerations kick in. Or maybe it will work out great - Trader Joe's is an
amazing example of that.

~~~
tannhaeuser
FYI: those looking for quality vegetables in Germany buy at the "market"
(traditional place with sellers and producers coming with trailers once or
twice a week). Maybe not anymore in Berlin, where this tradition may have been
stopped during the time when the city was isolated from its surrounding
agricultural suppliers (west), or vegetables were only available through
"Konsum"-style socialist unit stores, if at all (east).

~~~
kachurovskiy
On our farmer's market prices are usually through the roof. We buy at Lidl
where cheap produce is ok and there are also more expensive but still
reasonably priced tastier options for most items.

------
oftenwrong
It appears that the dupe filter missed this one. Can we merge with
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19939376](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19939376)
?

~~~
theandrewbailey
The domain is different.

------
Calib3r
Am I the only one here who doesn't prefer self-service?

Although I definitely appreciate the idea of having options for people who do
not share my mentality, my ideal shopping experience is where I have to do the
least amount work.

I don't want to have to put my cart up. I don't want to do self-checkout. I'm
not going to tell a robot what kind of vegetable I want. I appreciate being
able to call a store to resolve an outlier issue.

As a consumer, I will always be willing to pay extra $$ for what I suppose is
now becoming a premium perk.

------
duxup
I'm not surprised by the success, I am a bit by the praise for quality. I find
Aldi has good quality....for the price, and their prices are pretty
low....Aside from a handful of items I know are usually good at Aldi I find
lots of items that the quality matches the low price.

I shop there for a few things but especially when I'm cooking I avoid Aldi and
it seems like when I try something new it is pretty bleh. Pretzels that are
basically dust with shape, etc.

I feel like the odd man out not being an Aldi fan but I suspect that has
something to do with cooking.

------
quickthrower2
In Australia food seems very expensive in general, so having Aldi isn't so
much about getting cheap food, but getting reasonably priced food. Although I
think they generally stock less healthy foods, so you have to be careful with
dips and things like that. But fruit, veg, meat, milk type stuff it's a
winner. They also sell a lot of homeware on a rotation basis, so one week you
can buy a drill, the next and air compressor, etc. I guess this works well for
them as it creates scarcity.

------
DanielleMolloy
Nice thread.

Want to add that the founders of ALDI, Theo and Karl Albrecht managed to stay
secretive throughout their lives (especially after Theo was kidnapped in the
70s). They managed to have almost zero photos or video recordings of them in
public, despite both appearing on the world's top 10 richest people list quite
a few times (they were the richest people in Germany anyway). They were like
phantoms.

Also, Theo Albrecht loved collecting typewriters. Just sayin', as we are on
HN.

------
CDSlice
At least in the part of the US I live in, Aldi is just a much better place to
shop then Walmart and the other grocery stores. I can just unlock my cart
(which are never just hanging out in the parking lot), grab the food I need
(which is always in the same location), check out, bag my food in my reusable
bags (which Aldi pretty heavily pushes), and be done with it. The only store
that comes close is the Walmart Neighborhood Market but that still isn't as
cheap and nice as Aldi is.

------
kostko
Wait untill you get Aldi mobile provider. In my country i pay 10eur a month
for unlimited calls+sms and 20gb of data. For 15eur you get same but 50gb
data. Simplest cell provider, no hiden costs, and everything is resolved
online. They do not have offices where you register. You just but a sim card.
And then they can either charge your bank account or you buy vouchers at Aldi
registers - printed on the receipt paper. Its cheap and awesome!

~~~
Scoundreller
What is your country?

~~~
kostko
Slovenia. Hot.si

------
glitcher
WinCo Foods in some of the western US states attempts to drive down costs with
some similar tactics, although not to nearly the extent that it sounds like
Aldi does. Plus WinCo is employee owned, which I think is kinda cool.

In the western US states, I only see Aldi locations in southern California
currently. It will be interesting to see how they affect other competitors as
they expand to more cities out here.

~~~
Fripplebubby
As someone who has not worked in retail I don't know much about how "employee
owned" actually manifests for WinCo employees (esp. shop floor non-managers),
but it does seem like they have much better benefits than other chains. And
it's quite cheap, so would recommend to Western US folks.

------
m0zg
I find it remarkable how positive the tone is of this article compared to how
a decade or two ago US mainstream media was wailing about WalMart killing
mom&pop shops and corner grocery stores. I wonder why that is? If anything
once this chain expands it'll drive all the remaining small grocers out of
business, since it's considerably cheaper than even walmart.

~~~
task_queue
Post-Walmart/2008 America is living paycheck to paycheck. It's harder to
vilify those who undercut competitors if that means people get to eat this
week.

~~~
m0zg
I think America lived paycheck to paycheck well before WalMart. You could make
the same argument for WalMart that you're making for Aldi here.

------
oddibe
I haven't seen this specifically mentioned about the carts, but the cart
storage at Aldi is covered so the carts don't sit out in the weather and rust.
They also don't get bent or have wonky wheels like most other supermarkets,
probably because they're not getting inadvertently or intentionally hit by
cars in the parking lot.

------
GCA10
I'm not quite sure what's "brutal" about Aldi's practices. They are thrifty.
But that's different.

------
resoluteteeth
I like Aldi but I wish they got rid of the weird weekly non-food stuff they
have in the middle and used the space for more food.

------
mixmastamyk
One of the things that drives me crazy at our local Albertsons is that it is
very expensive in general but they change the price (reduce to reasonable)
every week on one brand per category. Result is one usually (4/5) can’t buy a
favorite product without overpaying ~30%.

Hopefully Aldi doesn’t do this, I know Trader Joe’s doesn’t.

------
_pRwn_
mwahaha! Americans encountering our unfiltered, brutal, German efficiency ...
you better start learning how to pack your groceries at the checkout at German
speeds ... see
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LfkwjJdITA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LfkwjJdITA)

~~~
johnpowell
We have a place called WincCo here that has a divider. The cashier sends your
groceries down one side and when they are done ringing your stuff up they
slide the divider over and send the next persons stuff down the other side
while you bag yours.

[https://i.imgur.com/K6A78XA.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/K6A78XA.jpg)

------
maxxxxx
It would be nice if the US Aldi stores were similar to the current stores in
Germany and Scotland I have seen. The ones I have been to in the LA area feel
like how Aldi was 30 years ago in Germany. Super cheap but crappy products.
Not like the European stores where you can find cheap high quality stuff.

------
antihero
Fucking love Aldi. I'm pretty sure without them I would have literally starved
to death. I can get food to eat for a week for like £10. The nearest Tesco to
me (Crystal Palace) doesn't stock any basics stuff, and the larger stores seem
to demand a car or nearly an hours walk.

------
orliesaurus
I wonder if eating food from these super cheap places will shorten your life
span compared to other more expensive and focused on healthy places.
Basically, sure cheap is good, but how less or more healthy are these cheap
supermarkets comparing them to on quality and healthiness metrics?

~~~
taco_emoji
I'm not sure what you mean... If you're buying fresh produce, there's not
going to be any difference between stores unless one of them is spraying sugar
& fat onto their tomatoes. And if you're buying nacho cheese tortilla chips,
you're already going for something less healthy.

~~~
orliesaurus
yeah, that's exactly what I mean! Fresh produce origins matter and so does
handling and care!

------
dude01
I love all Aldi's! The main reasons are : 1. Time - I can be in and out in 10
minutes. 2. Prices - the prices are about 20 to 30% cheaper then the other
major grocery chain near me.

Also, it's the only brand that I will praise to random people, that's how much
I love it.

------
sys_64738
You haven't been to the Aldi near me in the USA. They suck compared to other
US supermarkets. BTW, Aldi in Ireland is unbelievable. I'm still not convinced
it's the same company even though the names are the same.

------
SubiculumCode
' And at checkout, cashiers hurry shoppers away, expecting them to bag their
own groceries in a separate location away from the cash register.'

Food4Less in the central valley of CA have done that for years. They are
pretty cheap too.

------
kjjw
The uses of the words “brutal” and “fierce” are good examples of American
xenophobia. Aldi pays its low-wage staff a living wage (far above the minimum
required by law) in the UK and elsewhere. Walmart, no chance.

------
mensetmanusman
For our family, Aldi + Instacart has measurably changed our lives for the
better. Not having to go to shopping with toddlers and still paying a
reasonable amount for groceries has been amazing.

------
croisillon
related (in the UK):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19341448](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19341448)

------
msg3
I'm a huge Aldi loyalist now. Alongside the low prices and decent quality
food, a major bonus is that I can do an entire weekly shop in about 20
minutes.

------
purplezooey
_It’s not uncommon to see luxury cars in Aldi’s parking lots_

There's something that bothers me about that caption I just can't put my
finger on what it is.

------
mongol
How similar is Aldi and Lidl? There is only Lidl here where I live. They seem
very similar conceptually.

What are the tangible differences, which one do you prefer?

~~~
Glawen
They are very similar in size or product. Aldi has more local food products
than lidl, but lidl has a more interesting "aisle of shite", with their own
brand of tools/garden equipment. I keep watching this aisle to expand my
toolshed :)

Here is a great website to avoid missing the famous parkside tools:
[http://offers.kd2.org](http://offers.kd2.org) (it also shows aldi stuff)

~~~
mongol
Actually that aisle is well known to me. It feels like a hidden gem. I plan my
visits to Lidl after following their offers on this aisle :-)

------
mimixco
When I went in Poland, I wasn't a fan. But I recently visited a Houston store
and it's terrific! They're really onto something.

------
vondur
I like them. Quick to find items and quick to check out. Sure, the selection
isn't the best, but I can find most everything I need.

------
moron4hire
Yeah, the three other grocery stores in a mile radius around our local Aldi
are all quaking in their boots. It's just been exhausting, wondering if every
day is going to be the last day you open the doors. They've each only been
able to complete one renovation in the last two years, and I'm sure they'd
double the number of auto-check out lanes if it weren't for that meddling
Aldi!

In other words, I haven't exactly seen anything "upended" yet.

------
pxi
I like ALDI - i just i wish they would stock WeetBix HiBran - other than that
it's a pretty cool store.

------
madengr
Expensive cars in the Aldi’s parking most likely means a fat car loan, not an
indication of wealth.

~~~
task_queue
Getting a fat car loan is much easier if your credit is good, you aren't in
debt, and your income is relatively high. It's an indicator of relative
wealth.

~~~
hn23
2019... and we still measure wealth in terms of car size.

------
snarfy
Do the keep the meat, dairy, bread, and produce on the back walls like every
other grocery store?

------
SubiculumCode
Aldi vs Grocery Outlet Flame War!

Funny how two grocery store stories appeared on HN within a day of each other.

------
INTPenis
>Shoppers need a quarter to rent a shopping cart. Plastic and paper bags are
available only for a fee. And at checkout, cashiers hurry shoppers away,
expecting them to bag their own groceries in a separate location away from the
cash register.

This just described how I've been shopping here in Sweden since the 90s.

------
sam0x17
The one in my area is crap, many of the items are stale, and there is no
produce.

~~~
jryan49
I live in a major city and 10 years ago it was like that. It's only recently,
after a neighbor said it had changed, I went back. They have fresh produce
there now, and it's good quality, and cheap. The selection isn't huge, but it
has like 90% of what I want.

~~~
sam0x17
Yeah this one is still like that :/

------
Simulacra
For some, I think the low cost is a reason to shop at Aldi, but I found the
experience too brutal. It was like shopping at a Goodwill grocery store, too
tedious for me.

~~~
noir_lord
For me it's not the cost and the 'brutal' is what I want, products stay where
they where the last time you where in, the signage is clear and the product
choice is decent cheap, good and not expensive.

It's basically what I want a shop to be, somewhere to buy stuff not an
'experience'.

------
bubblewrap
"brutally efficient" \- I'm surprised cnn.com is still permitted on Hacker
News, with manipulative headlines like that.

~~~
FabHK
Eh? What's manipulative about it? I'd call it descriptive and evocative, even.

~~~
bubblewrap
It suggests that Aldi is winning by unfair measures, exploiting workers and
what not.

~~~
FabHK
Oh ok, thanks for clarifying. Interesting - I didn't interpret it that way
(unfair, exploitative), as in brutal violence, but rather as stark and
focused, as in brutalist architecture.

------
everyone
How USians see Aldi..
[https://youtu.be/mXHJN1nsJ1Y](https://youtu.be/mXHJN1nsJ1Y)

