
Kalzumeus Podcast 5: Quitting Consulting Via Productization - Cass
http://www.kalzumeus.com/2013/07/17/kalzumeus-podcast-5-quitting-consulting-via-productization/
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huhtenberg
It was interesting to follow Patrick's reports few years ago, when they were
specific and factual, but attempts to extrapolate from that into a field of
full-on startup mentoring and coaching looks rather strange to put it mildly.

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caw
I think it's because you're looking at it like this:

1) BCC (And the AB testing, SEO, etc)

2) Appointment Reminder

3) ???

4) Mentoring / coaching / training

The part 3 was consulting, where people paid him money for 4, but presumably
there's some NDAs prohibiting write ups the same as BCC. Appointment Reminder
has always been a bit more secretive because of Patrick deciding between
taking investment or bootstrapping. By not knowing the middle you think it's a
huge change, but it's really not.

Ramit Seethi you can look at a similar way. How did he jump from a book in
2009 to having several products on what basically amounts to life coaching
(dream job, earning money on the side, resume improvements, etc)? In only 3
years since the book he's convinced individuals to drop $2-15k on the promise
that he can help them get a better job. To me that seems like a bigger jump
than what Patrick has done, but I don't know the middle.

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ericabiz
> How did he jump from a book in 2009 to having several products on what
> basically amounts to life coaching (dream job, earning money on the side,
> resume improvements, etc)?

The funny thing about Hacker News is you never know who's going to be reading
your posts. Hi! I'm the person who convinced Ramit to quit his day job and do
this blogging/product thing full time several years ago. I also know Patrick
personally and it's an interesting comparison you are making between the two
of them.

> In only 3 years since the book he's convinced individuals to drop $2-15k on
> the promise that he can help them get a better job.

I understand the skepticism around Ramit's products, especially from the HN
crowd. However, knowing Ramit and having been through his products as a
reviewer, they are stellar, and the results he gets for his students are
meticulously documented. That's not to say they're for everyone--as an
entrepreneur myself, I didn't get as much value as a job-seeker would have,
and Ramit is probably a couple years away from creating a product geared
toward entrepreneurs.

Knowing both Ramit and Patrick, the main similarity I see is both have a
deeply analytical mind. Neither takes anything for granted, and they're both
fanatical testers...not just with marketing copy, but also with their
products. Ramit goes to ridiculous levels to make sure his products are bar
none the best out there. He spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on
salaries and hiring the best people so that his products can be the top of
their class.

Patrick is a bit different, as he got burned on consulting (I'm sure he'll
tell that story when he's ready) and went back to focusing on products. He's
newer to the info product segment than Ramit, and a little more gun-shy when
it comes to aggressive sales. (Ramit uses more aggressive sales tactics
because he strongly feels--and has the testimonials to back it up--that he
does have the best stuff out there.) Patrick is more cautious, as a geek first
and foremost, and someone who built up his list through Hacker News and other
geek-oriented websites.

In neither case would I hesitate to buy one of their products that was aimed
in my direction or endorse them for other folks in their respective target
markets. Both Patrick and Ramit operate from a foundation of integrity and
putting the best stuff out there. I'm fortunate to count both of them as
friends and mentors.

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caw
Thanks for the response!

I didn't mean for the comment to seem skeptical of what either has done. With
regards to Ramit, I know he's fantastic at sales -- I've actually bought one
of his products and found it worth the cost. I assume his other products are
of similar quality, because it takes a lot of proof to get some of those sales
he's making.

I was just bringing up that it seems like a huge jump to someone working a 9-5
corporate job, and I'm just mentally penciling in "hustle" in how he got from
A to B, because I haven't followed his story the whole way, the same as the OP
hadn't been following Patrick. I like learning from the story of progression
more than a "do this that and the other, but not that."

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kybernetyk
I'm happy that the audio quality significantly improved from the first
episode. But still Patrick is a lot quieter than Keith - which leads me to
adjust volume constantly.

I don't know your setup, but maybe use a multi-track recording software and
then adjust each speaker's track to match volume.

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patio11
Thanks for the comment. I'll tell the audio engineer to add it to the list of
things he adjusts for. Episode 6 is already in the can but ideally it will be
better for you after episode 7.

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timjahn
On that note, Patrick, ask him to move your audio to be in the center (stereo
wise), rather than entirely on the right channel as it is now. If you listen
with headphones to this episode, Keith is spread across both left and right
while you are solely on the right channel. Confusing to the ears.

Still listening, but as always, great episode thus far!

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umsm
I fixed this by pulling out the headphone plug slightly from the jack...

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nhangen
I'm a little leery anytime someone goes from doing 'Activity A' to no longer
doing 'Activity A' and instead teaching people how to do it.

I don't know Patrick personally, so I won't denigrate him for this approach,
but I find this conversation quite disheartening.

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AVTizzle
Patrick runs not one, but TWO SaaS products as a solo entpreneur, runs a
super-insightful blog, puts out info-products, and also runs this podcast.

We should _all_ be so productive...

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jmduke
Another way to think about this is that Patrick puts out an info product, and
then runs customer development and marketing through blogging and podcasting.

(I am 100% guilty of patio11 hero worship and will continue to do so, as his
post on salary negotiation has made me more money than everything else on the
Internet combined.)

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wikwocket
Gee, thanks Patrick. You know, I used to listen to speculative fiction
podcasts on my commute: Escape Pod for scifi, Podcastle for fantasy, maybe
some Drabblecast or even video game podcasts...

Now all I listen to is small business/bootstrapping casts! Kalzumeus, Product
People, Techzing, Foolish Adventure, Eventual Millionaire, I have a whole
backlog of this stuff!

Will you guys knock it off with this excellent & actionable content, so I can
listen to some fiction again?? Geez!

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saturdayplace
Thank you very much for posting this list. I'd cast about a while back looking
for similar stuff, but not found much I enjoyed. Looking forward to giving
these a try.

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tagawa
One more for the list is Startups For The Rest Of Us - highly recommended.

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tocomment
I'm not much rails but why can't you upgrade to a more recent version instead
of having he 10k patch agreement?

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tocomment
Why was I downvoted? Is it not a legitimate question?

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tomjen3
There are a lot of voters who are quick to downvote. Sadly many of the dislike
entirely legitimate questions (such as yours) because they know the answer.

So don't sweat it, besides you are already reopvoted.

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tomjen3
And already transcribed, awesome.

