
Wind turbines meant to work at the South Pole and Mars - jfdi
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/11/inside-literally-wind-turbines-meant-to-work-at-the-south-pole-and-mars/
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jacquesm
Once upon a time there was a man named Jacobs who designed wind turbines. In
1933 Admiral Byrd set one of these up on the South pole and many years (and
many storms) later the machine was still working. No maintenance, no parts
replaced, just incredibly durable and very well designed:

[http://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/wind-
power-h...](http://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/wind-power-
history-zmaz73ndzraw.aspx)

I took a lot of inspiration from that model (but used many modern materials
such as Neodymium magnets which were not available at the time).

The Jacobs brand survives to this day. I really don't understand how Ars could
have missed this in their research for the article.

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aqme28
Hey neat! My dad helps run another harsh-environment wind turbine company,
Black Island Wind Turbines[1].

> _Black Island, Antarctica. One of the harshest wind turbine installations in
> the world. Routine category 5 hurricane winds. Top speeds reaching almost 89
> meters /sec (200 mph). Temperatures falling to minus 57 degrees Celcius
> (minus 70 degrees Farenheit). Marine environments. Super-critical loads. One
> wind turbine prevails--the HR3, a high-reliability 3 kW wind turbine that
> Black Island Wind Turbines will soon be offering for commercial sales to
> satisfy the most difficult site and customer demands around the world._

[1]:
[http://www.blackislandwindturbines.com/](http://www.blackislandwindturbines.com/)

~~~
jacquesm
Did your dad have anything to do with the Crowley Ridge turbines?

I went there to have a look, those are really special machines even though
they look ordinary at first glance.

[http://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/foto/crowley-ridge-wind-
pow...](http://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/foto/crowley-ridge-wind-power-
alberta-canada-royalty-free-beeld/78480243/gallery)

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mynegation
Being able to withstand extreme cold is one thing but is Mars atmosphere
density enough to even turn the blades?

~~~
nickff
Yes, with the correct blade design, wind turbines could work on Mars, but they
are probably not a great idea, because they will have a low specific power
output (W/kg). Cost to transport items to Mars is mostly based to weight, so
any power generation system should be mass-efficient, and play to Mars'
strengths. Spare parts and maintenance are also likely to be issues, and dust
will probably cause issues with any exposed parts or moving seals, so turbines
are likely to cause problems.

Mars has lower insolation than Earth, but a significant amount of sunlight
reaches the ground, especially in the UV spectrum (because of Mars' thin
atmosphere). Solar panels which are more efficient at shorter wavelengths
(compared to their Earth-bound bretheren) would generate more power than wind
turbines of similar mass. The Solar panels also have the benefit of being
solid state devices, thus they require no maintenance other than occaisional
clearing of dust, and they even operate quite well and for a long time when
that is not done (as demonstrated by NASA's probes and rovers).

~~~
jacquesm
But windmills complement solar, on Mars as well as on Earth. The sun isn't
always visible and you will want to have multiple inputs to reduce the amount
of storage required. Upgrading your battery after a couple of years is
probably a bigger problem than shipping a windmill once.

~~~
nickff
There are no clouds on Mars, so why do you need an inefficient, labor
intensive system to complement an efficient, reliable, and predictable one?
NASA rovers and probes have been getting very good results with solar panels,
do you think they would have gotten better results if they also had wind
turbines?

I think you can make a strong case for bringing along hydrazine (or at least
hyrdogen to make methane in situ) and/or substantial battery banks (if you
can't manufacture batteries in situ), but the case for wind power is even
weaker on Mars than on Earth (and it is quite weak on Earth).

~~~
jacquesm
Mars has a day-night cycle.

~~~
nickff
Batteries + Solar Panels > Solar Panels + Wind Turbines

Batteries + Solar Panels = Higher efficiency, higher performance, lower
maintenance, lower weight.

~~~
jacquesm
Yes, but the most reliable set-up is batteries + solar panels + wind turbines.

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asavadatti
You know whats even more reliable? Coal fired or nuclear power plant. However
these solutions are not mass efficient or practical.

Similarly Wind turbines, while practical, are not mass efficient. Carrying
extra batteries instead of turbines makes for a much more efficient system.

~~~
jacquesm
> Similarly Wind turbines, while practical, are not mass efficient.

Those are big words to use without having seen a specific design. Terrestrial
wind turbines likely have as much in common with turbines destined for Mars as
the Mars rovers have to do with our cars. Sure they both have wheels but
that's roughly where the similarities end.

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mrfusion
I always wondered if we could generate power in Antarctica from harnessing ice
sheet movement.

Perhaps Have it pull a cable geared up by some crazy amount and turn a
generator.

Anyone know if this has been investigated? It could produce more power than
hydro electric since these sheets are massive. (And constantly renewed by
snowfall)

~~~
dTal
There's a lot of places in the world you could generate electricity in crazy
ways. For example, you could spin up a giant gyroscope at one of the poles and
generate power from Earth's rotation.

The problem is distribution.

