
APC, $49 Android computer, now accepting pre-orders - techietim
http://apc.io/order/pre-order/
======
astrodust
Yet another brand-new Android 2.3 device.

Is there something about Android 4.0 that makes it difficult to work with from
a hardware perspective?

~~~
excuse-me
Probably more a supply chain isssue.

Every component on this thing is bargain basement, so you use whatever driver
the maker of the SoC core supplied. They are also bargain basement so have
used whatever driver the GPU maker supplied.

So you are really using components that were 'new' a couple of years ago. The
makers of this would have to put considerable time/money into making 4.0
drivers for components that are supplied through a chain of subcontractors
none of who have the technical ability to help.

It is one of the big ironies of opensource Android that in a way it's a lot
less open than a regular PC.

~~~
astrodust
So is it impossible or impractical because of the components not meeting
Android 4.0 requirements, or is it because of software and driver issues?

I've never really seen a clear answer. Whatever the Cyanogen Mod team is up
to, it must be damned tricky.

~~~
excuse-me
The components might meet Android 4 requirements but you often don't have the
info needed to write drivers for them

Typically for lower end parts the makers implemented the simplest cheapest
thing they could get away with - so buggy limited and out of date drivers -
and they have bought in modules from others, so nobody has the complete specs.

For better system the code in the SoC (and GPU especially) is what
distinguishes it from other models and competitors so they are very careful
about who they give details out to. Otherwise you could buy their $1 SoC and
turn on the features in the $5 part.

If you are a Samsung or an Apple you can control the supply chain better and
insist on having the info and compliant drivers - but most of these are aimed
at mobile phone makers who rely on you having to buy a new model every
18months rather than doing updates.

Cyanogen etc do a very good job of custom kernels but they can rarely insert a
much newer driver into an older chipset.

------
dangrossman
For $10 more (when you include shipping), you can get a Logitech Revue on
Amazon.

* Google TV/Android 3.0 instead of Android 2.3

* Access to Google Play market, which this doesn't have

* 802.11b/g/n wifi, which this doesn't have

* A really nice wireless keyboard+touchpad controller

* Essentially identical power profile

* Logitech Harmony software built in; it can control just about every TV, receiver, DVD player, etc. in existence

~~~
grandalf
I think really nice is a bit of an exaggeration about the keyboard.

~~~
dangrossman
It's the best living room keyboard I've ever used. People have been buying
them separately from the Revue just to use them with their other HTPC setups.

------
mtgx
"Chip VIA 800MHz Processor"

I'm confused by this. Is it a "VIA processor" or an ARM processor, made by
VIA? I hope they didn't change the CPU mid-way with one of their own.

Edit: In their PR they say it's a "VIA WonderMedia ARM 11 SoC".

<http://apc.io/files/2012/05/PR120522-APC-Final.pdf>

~~~
excuse-me
ARM is a core design, there are no processors made by ARM - they only sell the
IP. You can have an Apple ARM or a Samsung ARM or in this case a VIA ARM

This entire machine is made by VIA who also make the CPU. VIA are more famous
for making low power x86 clones but that's nothing to do with this.

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lsaferite
Seems like they are hiding part of the cost in shipping. They are even
charging $30 to deliver to Asia.

------
ukdm
Carries a $38 shipping charge for US/Canada/Europe

~~~
moystard
They just announced the preorder, might be worth waiting for suppliers to sell
them on their behalf in the rest of the world.

~~~
excuse-me
It might be one of those under $49 for headline and customs (tax+duty)but we
make the money on the $50 shipping.

But since you can buy 7" resistive tablets for <$70 inc shipping from all the
online chinese stores this shouldn't be too difficult to bring in a screen and
battery-less device at this price.

------
thechut
I was going to order until I realized it was actually going to be $87 not $49.
This is only the first of many of these devices that should be coming soon

~~~
grandalf
I did the same. There's something odd about shipping costing 40% of the price.

------
mattwdelong
Anyone aware of an inexpensive place to pick up a small touchscreen LCD?

APC, paired with a small touchscreen would be very useful in many situations.

------
izak30
That's not a computer that's a cardboard box. It would probably be more
effective to show a rendering + screen shots. They're not selling a box
they're selling a computer.

~~~
Jagat
<http://apc.io/about/>

There you go.

------
K2h
besides small form factor, I care about power consumption:

[1] consumes 4 watts when operating at idle power and 13.5 watts at maximum
load.

[1] <http://apc.io/faq/what-is-the-power-consumption-of-apc/>

------
berdon
I can't remember why I bookmarked and signed up for their pre-order alert...
Why do I want to spend ~$100 on a dumbed down *nix device? Note: I am a mobile
developer too but...my Asus Transformer was only moderately more expensive...

~~~
mtgx
The only useful application for this I'd say is if something in your old PC
died, and instead of buying parts for it, you could buy this, and make it live
longer.

------
kno
I don't actually see an Image of the device itself on the site.

~~~
runako
Images are at <http://apc.io/> at the top of the page.

Based on the description, I don't think it comes with a case:

"APC integrates memory, storage, and a full set of consumer I/O features in a
small footprint Neo-ITX motherboard that can be connected to a TV or monitor."

~~~
gamdang
You're right; no case.

"APC includes the system (with O/S) and a 13.5W, 9V/1.5A power adaptor. Case
is not included."

<http://apc.io/faq/what-is-included-in-apc/>

------
utopkara
The box hints at the size of the power brick. Yuck.

------
christiangenco
I'm getting a 404 on apc.io.

------
excuse-me
The first company that made something like this which worked 'out of the box'
with YouTube, Netflix, BBC, Skype and sold for $50 (ie $100 at Worst Buy)
would do very well.

There are a lot of TV shows being watched on iPads because hooking up the big
screen TV to a computer is too much effort / inconvenient for 'normal' people.

~~~
dangrossman
What you just described is Google TV (Logitech Revue). It's Android 3.0, works
"out of the box" with YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Video apps preinstalled and
most every streaming site other than Hulu. No Skype but it did include its own
video chat app. And it was $99 at Best Buy.

The product was a commercial failure. Logitech discontinued it last year. It's
still available in some stores and online but once the stock is gone, it's
gone.

~~~
joenathan
It wasn't $99 at bestbuy, it was $300 when it was released, which is a big
part of why it failed. [http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/08/logitech-revue-
with-googl...](http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/08/logitech-revue-with-google-
tv-review/)

Also it's still not $99, it's going for $150 new
[http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Companion-Google-Keyboard-
Con...](http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Companion-Google-Keyboard-
Controller/dp/B0040QE98O)

~~~
dangrossman
> It wasn't $99 at bestbuy, it was $300 when it was released

It was also $99 at Best Buy. It wasn't successful at that price either.
Today's iPhone sales aren't determined by its initial pricing in 2007.

> Also it's still not $99, it's going for $150

That's a 3rd party seller listing because Amazon is sold out. Amazon has it
refurbished for $99, which is probably just old stock stores sent back to
Logitech, which they sent back out for sale with "Now with Android 3.0"
stickers added to the boxes.

Even if it's not, it's essentially the same price as pre-ordering this mystery
box, yet comes with and does much more.

~~~
joenathan
The OP of this thread said that a ready-to-go box selling @ $50 would sell
like pancakes. You mentioned the Logitech Revue as having already been that,
but you are completely wrong, it was never $99 at bestbuy, it was $299, then
$249 and then discontinued.

More proof here that Logitech didn't get that ~$300 was too high a price point
for something like this [http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/29/logitechs-
disappointing-q...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/29/logitechs-
disappointing-q4-results-not-helped-by-poor-revue-s/)

The Logitech Revue never retailed at $99 like you are trying to pass off as
being true, sure now that they are discontinued you can find them refurbished
on Amazon at that price but it's not the same thing and doesn't rebut the OPs
point.

~~~
dangrossman
What an asshole. I do not appreciate being called a liar by an egotistical
fool passing off his own misinformation as a correction. I have said nothing
untrue or dishonest. Yours is one of the most angering posts I've read on HN
in 4+ years.

The Revue retailed for $99 new for almost a year, since mid 2011, until stores
ran out of stock. Here's the announcement direct from Logitech's VP, Digital
Home Group, about the retail price drop to $99 at all stores:

<http://blog.logitech.com/2011/07/31/logitech-revue-now-99/>

Best Buy carried it at $299, $249, $129, and $99 all in new condition. The $99
price was in early 2011, raised to $129 in November 2011, and dropped back to
$99 before going out of stock. You can find these price points in Google
through mentions on sites like Slickdeals that tracked the price drops.

Sears carried it for $99. Newegg carried it for $99. I'm sure other stores did
too. You can still buy it new for $99 from TigerDirect.

Next time you feel compelled to call someone out as a liar, be damned sure
you're actually right about it.

------
89a
[http://apc.io/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/apc-
screenshots/s...](http://apc.io/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/apc-
screenshots/settings.jpg)

Come on guys, get serious.

------
xxiao
to call a low-end x86 box with 2GB NAND a PC?

~~~
mrbill
It's not x86. ARM11.

