
Vinyl LP Frenzy Brings Record-Pressing Machines Back to Life - aaronbrethorst
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/business/media/a-vinyl-lp-frenzy-brings-record-pressing-machines-back-to-life.html
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gwbas1c
I really enjoy playing vinyl from time to time; but I'm not going to pretend
that they sound better. They don't. Vinyl is all about the touch and the feel,
like driving a stick or making bread from scratch.

~~~
coldpie
I agree. I'm just getting into it and building out a home stereo system, but
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I enjoy playing vinyl. It's because of
junk like, "The reasons cited [for playing vinyl] are usually a fuller, warmer
sound from vinyl’s analog grooves." No, no, no, don't associate me with that
stupid audiophile nonsense.

~~~
coldtea
Well, it IS a different sound, and that can be measured objectively (I mean
that vinyl players "color" the original recording and how much and in what
ways they alter the frequency response and such).

So, it's not like $1000 cables scams etc, where the results are identical.

Now, the subjective part is whether this "warmer" sound is better than the
more accurate (better fidelity) high quality digital sound.

For a lot of people, it is -- same way as we tend to like "saturated" images
more, despite their colors not being true to the original.

(Of course I'm speaking in general -- if you, mr. outlier, doesn't like
saturated pictures, this doesn't apply to your statistical noise self. Not
everything is about you.).

Then there's the crackle and static that some (fewer) people also like, but
I'm sticking to the basic vinyl "color" here.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Vinyl is very heavily processed. The sound that ends up on the groove has the
bass cut by up to 20dB, and the treble boosted by the same amount, because the
needle can't move fast enough and far enough to reproduce a flat frequency
response. (Google "RIAA curve" for details.)

The processing is reversed on playback in the preamp, but there's always a
mismatch between the source EQ and the preamp EQ, so there's always some tonal
distortion. And because the bass gets boosted so much there's added waveform
distortion which increases with bass frequencies and makes the bass thicker.

Many turntables also have pitch instabilities.

Hence "vinyl sound."

So no - it's not even remotely accurate. Add scratches, crackles, and pops,
groove deterioration - the needle causes enough friction to melt the plastic
in the groove - and other artefacts, and it's really more of a
lifestyle/collector thing than anything to do with accuracy.

Personally I have enough physical stuff already, and I want less, not more. So
being able to store all my music on a hard drive in FLAC format makes me
thankful the industry moved beyond vinyl.

~~~
vasilipupkin
But if you wanted that type of sound, you could record it digitally. There is
no reason why that type of sound has to come from a vinyl analog record. Is
there ?

~~~
coldtea
And people DO do that: using several compression, old mikes, tube amps, EQing,
recording techniques, etc to make digital releases sound like vinyl/low-fi of
yore.

In fact one of the hottest selling audio plugin categories are "tape
saturation" (which mimic 2-inch tape distortions, not that far from mimicking
vinul).

E.g.: [https://www.u-he.com/cms/satin](https://www.u-he.com/cms/satin)

When it comes to vinyl, there's also other factors: the patina (crackle) etc,
adds connection to the times you've played the record, the fragility and
tactile feel, plus it's a physical, collectible artifact. Plus, at least for
now, the fashion factor.

While a audio-file collection will be useless in 20 years (already is with
things like Spotify giving access to most music), a good condition LP will
mostly increase in price. In 50 years? A current pressing could be worth $200
or more (especially since most bands do small 1000 units or less vinul
pressings).

~~~
vasilipupkin
I get that it's fashion. It just surprises me, given there is no reason for
it, as far as the actual quality of the signal goes. I mean it's one thing if
you are collecting antique vinyl from the 1930s or something. But collecting
modern recordings just seems bizarre to me. I am not judging, I am just
amused.

Also, Spotify doesn't give you the same quality sound as an audiofile
collection of CDs, due to compression

~~~
coldtea
> _I get that it 's fashion. It just surprises me, given there is no reason
> for it, as far as the actual quality of the signal goes._

I think one way to see it is that it being in vinyl (with all the romantic,
old-music-industry, analog etc ideas it conveys) is also part of the signal.

As in, the signal is not the pure musical signal, but also the cultural one
(the vinyl being emotional, nostalgic, romanticized, fashionished, fetishised,
etc).

> _Also, Spotify doesn 't give you the same quality sound as an audiofile
> collection of CDs, due to compression_

That's just a matter of time and better broadband connections. For most
people, given their speakers/headphones quality, it's more than enough.

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coldpie
Vinyl is a fun format. I've been picking up records for listening recently.
One fun thing I noticed is most records have some hand-written notes along the
inside edge of the record. Usually some album ID code, maybe a date, or some
other markings I can't identify.

When I first noticed these, I thought, wow, it's crazy that someone had to
mark up all these individual records as they were pressed. I can't believe how
long that must have taken. Then I realized, obviously, that the master record
had the original markings, and that entire record was stamped into the
production run, including those hand-written markings. So some record
engineer's handwriting survived onto thousands or millions of duplicated
records, decades into the future, into my living room, where I noticed them.
Neat! I wonder who that guy was...

~~~
CrackpotGonzo
Agreed. The best part is in the experience.

I love finding old records that used to be my grandpa's. Seeing his
handwriting on the records on liner notes makes me feel like i'm sharing the
experience with him. Digital can never replicate that.

~~~
coldpie
I picked up a bundle off craigslist from some 20-something guy a while ago,
and a fair few of them have "Deb" scrawled on the cover and on some labels.
All of the Deb albums are in great condition, some with the plastic wrap still
on, slit to slide the record out, no dust, no scratches. I don't know who Deb
is or was, but my thanks to her for taking care of her records!

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datawaslost
“they looked like scrap metal to anybody but me”

What nonsense, I hope he was misquoted.. Like the linked video says, he bought
them in Chicago from Joell Hays, another vinyl junkie (and all-around nice
guy) that held on to them for a decade, but couldn't get the funds together to
restore them all.

I can't understand why every story about vinyl's resurgence needs to make the
story into some sort of mythic "rediscovery". My label's been putting out
vinyl for years, the only difference is that now there's a 6-month waiting
list at the plant. :)

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SixSigma
I just bought a new record player - as an oldie I have over 200 vinyls.

Even in the few months since I decided to buy a replacement for my previous
equipment I saw the number of models proliferate.

In the end I went for the Ion Air [1] - a turntable with USB and Bluetooth
output, what a crazy idea!

They announced it at CES [2] and I have it on back order so I can't comment on
its quality. But it also has line-in -> Bluetooth which was the final selling
point for me. I already have a Sony BM10 [3] hooked up to my amp [4].

Even though I've been in tech since the 70's, it's still remarkable that my
hi-fi stack is smaller than an 8 Track tape!

[1]
[http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/airlp](http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/airlp)

[2] [http://www.ionaudio.com/news/press-releases/new-ion-air-
lp-b...](http://www.ionaudio.com/news/press-releases/new-ion-air-lp-bluetooth-
turntable-streams-albums-to-any-bluetooth-speaker)

[3] [http://www.aptx.com/product-low-latency/sony-bluetoothr-
musi...](http://www.aptx.com/product-low-latency/sony-bluetoothr-music-
receiver-bm10)

[4] [http://www.amazon.com/Danibos-TA2021B-Integrated-Tripath-
Amp...](http://www.amazon.com/Danibos-TA2021B-Integrated-Tripath-
Amplifier/dp/B00EZL8SMC)

------
MrJagil
Here's an interesting submission about the last cassette factory (which is
also having a resurgence):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10197449](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10197449)

Let me know if you have questions about the format, I run a small tape label
(scalatapes.bandcamp.com).

~~~
richmt
The idea of recording on cassette has always appealed to me as a fairly cheap
and easy way to record analog tracks at home with some of the older cheap 4-8
track sound boards. I think the limitations I'd set for myself and the change
in my workflow vs a laptop with a DAW would have a pretty drastic change on
the way my music turns out.

Do you find this is why most artists first choose to record to cassette, or is
it because of other things like easier/cheaper distribution?

~~~
MrJagil
There's a couple of reasons:

1\. A lot artists don't incorporate cassette into the workflow much. Usually
people do what they do with a DAW or go to a studio to record. Cassette is
_mostly_ used as medium (like CD, vinyl etc). But yes, I do have friends who
record directly on cassette. This will sound very rough though (depending on
setup), too much even for some lo-fi aficionados.

2\. Hipster points. Tapes are very "in" right now. Don't disregard this point.
Just like networking is sometimes seen as a sacrifice of your "humanity", so
is hipsterism. This is not so. Like it or not, sometimes it's important to go
with the flow and play the field.

3\. Easy/cheap to make. You do have to record in real-time which sucks when
duplicating tapes, but other than that it's way easier to do a few tapes than
to go vinyl.

4\. People like supporting artists. This can be hard. Many shows are free,
everyone downloads, so tapes, even if they can't be played at home, are a way
to show your appreciation.

5\. Sound. The sound is to me the most important part. Cassette can sound just
as good as vinyl with the proper transfer, and introduces some great artifacts
like a smoother high-end and a bit of saturation.

6\. Professionalism. If you've spent 20-50 hours to create artwork, order
tapes, duplicate them (or get someone else to do it) etc etc you show that
you're serious about shit. It's a way to create your brand (of course this
goes for vinyl etc as well).

7\. I'd just like to copy Coldpie's point in regards to vinyl further down in
this thread. Go upvote him: "...for some there's more to listening to music
than just listening to music. Going to the shelf and looking over the albums,
remembering when you bought each album, who you've played them for, things
that were happening while you listened to them. Looking at the cover art or
the silly liner art or notes[1]. Noticing markings (or smells...) from
previous owners and wondering about them, what they were doing when they
bought or listened to the album. Physically placing the album on the turntable
and aligning the needle. Listening to the lead-in scratches as you adjust the
volume before the music kicks in. Sometimes you get silly lead-out loops[2].
It's just a fun, physical way to listen to music."

~~~
richmt
Interesting. All very different reasons to choose tape than what I'd
personally do.

I guess the difference is that I make music as a hobby, and do it almost
entirely for myself.

~~~
MrJagil
I do have plenty of friends who use tape purely in creative capacities i.e.
they DJ on tape or do experimental reel-to-reel cassette setups for live
shows.

Personally I'd actually love to own a 4-track and do some solo stuff for the
same reasons you described in your original post.

------
somberi
The argument between Vinyl / Cassette / CD / MP3; I file under "narcissim of
small differences". As I get older I find that emphasis on mindful listening
reveals a richer range of sounds than any music source is able to match.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_difference...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences)

~~~
creeble
Wow. Never read that explanation. Explains all of audiophilia, and most other
'philias.

Mine's better because it's (slightly) different than yours.

------
vasilipupkin
So, I totally see why uncompressed music sounds better than compressed music (
MP3, Spotify, Pandora, etc. ) But, I don't understand the point of vinyl vs
CDs. Nyquist theorem says you can fully recover an analog signal with digital
sampling, if you sample frequently enough. So, there is no reason to have
analog music. Am I missing something ?

~~~
publicfig
I'm someone that buys quite a few vinyl records, and almost all of my reasons
are psychological. I like supporting artists, and buying records give me a way
to do that and get something physical in return. I like having the big album
art and putting on a record makes me much more likely to listen to entire
albums instead of just random songs. Plus, putting on a record is an
intentional act which puts me in a good mental state for listening to music.
With digital download codes, I have no real reason to buy CDs as a good
percentage of bands offer their music digitally in any format I'd want. CDs
would just be something I'd burn to an mp3 player and throw in a closet
somewhere.

Plus, they're fun to collect. A lot of releases will have different colored
vinyl or special added features to the album.

~~~
teh_klev
> putting on a record makes me much more likely to listen to entire albums
> instead of just random songs

Precisely this. "That difficult third track on the B side"...which turns out
to be a total gem, yet might go unlistened and never appreciated.

~~~
vasilipupkin
agreed. But why Vinyl vs CDs ? I mean, listening to the whole album is just as
good with CDs or better ?

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sasvari
another interesting read about the German vinyl industry:

[http://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/hamburg/article126865000/D...](http://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/hamburg/article126865000/Die-
Rueckkehr-der-Schallplatte.html)

[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fprint%2Fdie_welt%2Fhamburg%2Farticle126865000%2FDie-
Rueckkehr-der-Schallplatte.html&edit-text=&act=url)

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chillingeffect
Wow, you'd think the NYT would work on an iPad, but after every scroll, it
jumps back to the top. I wonder if that obscure news agency would consider
testing against my little-used platform

~~~
jfim
Works fine in Chrome on Android, IE, Edge, Chrome, Firefox and Opera, try
another browser.

~~~
7Z7
Works fine in mobile Safari over here, too.

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analog31
Well, I suppose that vinyl could bring back the idea of paying for music.

~~~
aikah
The vinyl is a niche market. Very few people buy vinyls or even have a
turntable at home. There used to be a market for djs but now it's gone, and
the market for non professional is really tiny, it's not a viable option for
independent artists , no matter what that article says. No they have a better
shot at releasing their music for free on youtube, get some fame then get well
paid gigs. Because the recording industry itself is dead.

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Cthulhu_
"Frenzy" is overstating it a bit (linkbait much?)

