
Obesity research confirms long-term weight loss almost impossible - rfugger
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/obesity-research-confirms-long-term-weight-loss-almost-impossible-1.2663585
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TheSpiceIsLife
The whole 'weight loss' movement continues to focus on two things: nutrition
(either calorie counting, or some permutation of low carb dieting, or some
other fad eg. Palio) and exercise.

This over looks some important facts. Basal Metabolic Rate; Thyroid Function;
Adrenal Function; Sex hormone balance; Epigenetics; Neurohormonal response[1].
Without addressing the _whole person_ weight loss is likely to be a losing
battle.

So long as your diet is predominately: fruit & veg; nuts, seeds, legumes, and
whole grains; fish, eggs, and animal flesh, then you're eating relatively
well. Avoid whatever doesn't agree with you, or as your beliefs dictate. Learn
to eat intuitively: 'I feel like a carrot' is intuitive eating, 'I feel like a
Mars Bar' isn't.

1\. The Nurohormonal response or axis is about the understanding of how the
mental / emotional sphere of life impacts hormonal / neurotransmitter activity
in the body / brain.

Edit: speeling and gramur

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rdmcfee
This is terrible reporting. I couldn't find a single specific study referenced
in this article. Another example of the media obfuscating science. Only
opinion articles by epidemiologists who seem to have a hankering for pursing
non-causal science.

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Htsthbjig
This article is full of BS.

40 years ago the majority of the population of the US or North Europe was
thin. This has been so for the entire evolution of the human species.

People 40 years ago did not starve. They just ate things that refrigerators
and mass industrial production do not preserve well, like vitamins, or fiber,
or natural fat(like butter).

Now, when most people eat mass-processed foods, odd things happen, and unless
people change their food habits, nothing is going to change, but that is not
"impossible".

~~~
zurn
The article is about difficulty of reversing obesity, once you become fat.
Different problem.

~~~
epo
It is not about reversing obesity, it is about long term weight reduction.
Different problem.

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achille2
I must say that I've been the 5-2 diet (intermittent fasting) for nearly two
years and It has worked for me.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5:2_diet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5:2_diet)

~~~
DanBC
[http://www.homeopathyworkedforme.org/](http://www.homeopathyworkedforme.org/)

> In 2010, H:MC21 organised a lobby of over 250 homeopaths and patients, and
> handed in to No. 10 Downing Street a letter and the declaration "Homeopathy
> Worked for Me" signed by 28,112 people.

~~~
achille2
There's no hocus pocus in Intermittent Fasting. Eating less === less calories
ingested.

The difference that keeps IF sustainable long term is the freedom to eat, and
on fasting days there's the hope for tomorrow.

There are lots of health benefits to IF as well: _Dietary restriction has been
shown to have several health beneﬁts including increased insulin sensitivity,
stress resistance, reduced morbidity, and increased life span_

>
> [http://www.pnas.org/content/100/10/6216.full.pdf](http://www.pnas.org/content/100/10/6216.full.pdf)

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FK506
The article did not link to the sources. It doesn't take a lot of factors into
account. They did not mention that much of the long term research is based on
low fat diets that were popular some time ago. I suspect much of the research
was done in order to prove fad dieting did not work this is important for
SoCal and scientific reasons but not really an indication that all hope is
lost. It is only recently that we have started doing the basic research to
really see what is good for you and it is amazing how many mistaken.

More recent studies involving low carb diets are encouraging. There is also
encouraging research directly relating the number of servings of fresh fruit
and vegetables to mortality. This article is more properly referenced and
based on more resent research.

[http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-
weight-f...](http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-weight-full-
story/#what_leads_to_weight_loss)

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erikb
If 5% of people make the change it means it is possible and very normal. I
believe in everything in life only 1-10% of people are as willing and able to
make the change. Look at people who really learn a very foreign language well
(and I'm not talking about Spanish speakers learning Portugese or something
like that). Look at people who are able to move from one career path to
another after realizing the first choice they took with 20 won't sustain a
family. etc.

Change is hard. But the people who already did change one thing in their life
are very able to change their health/obesity as well.

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nemasu
This is confusing...if you only eat X calories per day and exercise, you will
lose weight, and permanently (assuming you don't give up), is this more of a
mental thing they're talking about?

~~~
aidenn0
And if you stop smoking crack, you're cured of addiction! It is saying that we
don't have any reliable way for an obese individual to restrict their diet to
X calories per day other than bariatric surgery.

~~~
nemasu
Okay, so, in the same vein then: "Crack research confirms long-term crack
smoking prevention almost impossible". Sounds kinda off, no? It's a mental
thing, and by mental, I don't mean "It's all in your head", I mean "It's
(literally) all in your head".

~~~
CJefferson
Lots of research has demonstrated that most crack addicts (and alcohol
addicts, and nicotine addicts) who try to quit relapse. I thought that was an
accepted part of science. Why do you think it sounds kinda off?

~~~
nemasu
It's off because something that is impossible denotes some sort of 'law of
nature' that cannot be avoided, where as in reality it's more brain/willpower
related.

~~~
aidenn0
yes "impossible" denotes some sort of 'law of nature' that cannot be avoided,
and "almost impossible" doesn't.

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klepra
Just losing weight is fairly easy.

Keeping low body-fat % while maintaining decent amount of muscle is what is
really challenging.

~~~
laichzeit0
I have no idea why people are voting you down. It must be out of pure utter
ignorance with no practical experience in trying to do this. As someone who
weight lifts naturally what you said is factually correct viz. (a) it is as
easy as counting calories and eating at a deficit. (b) it's difficult to eat
at a deficit and keep muscle mass because you're essentially low on fuel and
your body has to burn something for energy, trying to stay out of a catabolic
state requires diligence.

~~~
nemasu
I didn't down vote, but saying that losing weight is easy is like saying
playing the piano is easy. In reality, they are indeed both easy, but you need
determination and time.

~~~
laichzeit0
Then the word easy is being used in two senses. Technically losing weight is
extremely easy. It's a closed problem. It might be not-easy in a way that
varies from individual to individual but to say that it's not-easy should be
qualified in some sense to show that it's a psychological/will power/whatever
problem and not because we have an incomplete understanding of nutrition.

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nazgulnarsil
We have no large scale trials of altering people's gut bacteria. Fecal
transplants look pretty promising.

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recursion1133
There is psychological difficulty in changing your eating habits. If your
actions have resulted in obesity, then the difficulty to change to be losing
weight will be higher. So, psychologically it may be of a difficulty high
enough to be considered infeasible, still not impossible.

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beloch
Low success rates do not necessarily imply that losing weight permanently is
futile or impossible. All that we _can_ reasonably conclude is that the
majority of people trying to lose weight are using inadequate methods and/or
are unable/unwilling to adhere to their chosen method.

Consider the following:

-The ideal client for a health-club or gym is someone who signs up for a full year on January 2nd and then never returns.

-Expensive state-of-the-art exercise machines are actually inferior to cheap, old-fashioned free weights.

-A diet conducive to health loss typically consists of precisely the kind of foods that can't be pre-packaged and advertized on TV. I suppose I don't watch TV much these days, but if raw kale and spinach are getting superbowl ads, I haven't seen them.

-Personal trainers, diet coaches, etc. are all service providers, and repeat customers are the life blood of the service industry. Succeeding in teaching clients how to achieve their goals permanently and independently is the one sure-fire way to shrink the client base.

Fat people aren't a problem for the economy. They're a wonderful new growth
industry! It's highly profitable to sell "light" TV dinners, diet shakes, diet
soda, ab machines, balance ball workout lessons, miracle herbs, etc.. There's
relatively little profit in pig iron and kale.

The successful 5% aren't endowed with superhuman willpower. They just figured
out how to reconfigure their lives to make physical activity and a healthy
diet the easy default. Unfortunately, just being in the 5% doesn't make it
easy to teach others to be that way too. Consider sports. Say you're an expert
skier, snowboarder, etc.. You might have had some lessons a long time ago, but
you probably got really good just by doing it a _lot_. You can do stuff that
awes the instructors at the local bunny hill, but odds are that a newbie is
going to learn a lot more in a lesson from the instructors than they would
from you! Teaching uses a different skill-set, and it's _hard_ to do well.

The current situation in weight-loss land is this: The 5%'ers mostly figured
things out on their own. Their ability to teach others is variable and, on
average, not that great. The professional teachers are almost entirely people
who aren't a part of the 5%. Even those who are 5%ers are financially
disincentivized to actually teach people to become a part of the 5%. Becoming
a 5%'er is like learning to ski at a hill populated by daredevil experts who
suck at teaching and instructors who only get paid if you flunk their class
and have to take it again. It really shouldn't surprise anyone that your
chances of becoming a good skier are _awful_.

End Result: Should you find yourself unsatisfied with being in the 95%, you
really ought to examine the profit motives of the people you're paying to help
you. If your success would hurt their bottom line, they might not really be
helping you.

~~~
chipsy
Real world anecdote:

I recently discussed with a friend getting them some exercise equipment as a
gift; at first we were targeting specifically "training that might help with
keyboard RSI," but I soon realized that the biomechanics of RSI meant that a
really comprehensive solution would have to involve exploring all over the
body and figuring out where the real weak points are and training those, not
just "around the wrist" \- so grip trainer type equipment wouldn't be
sufficient. It would have to be seen as an "overall fitness" type of problem.

This led me, of course, towards free weights and a training program of general
experimentation. But a small free weight set in the home can be a frustrating
experience with no space or supporting equipment like benches and racks, plus
the chore of reloading dumbbells with light weight constantly. My friend was
rightly concerned about whether it would work out for her.

So I reconsidered and landed on resistance bands. They're kind of
unfashionable now - and for certain things having barbells and dumbbells and
plates would be a lot better. But they store and transport easily, have
essentially zero setup time, and there's plenty of exercises for them, many of
which are straight-up adaptations of free weight movements. The more expensive
Bodylastics set that I ended up buying, which was still only $70, allows for
an enormous amount of resistance too. After doing that shopping, I kind of
want to get some for myself too.

My friend probably would have been lost at the first step because it's not
like anyone marketing fitness actually tells you what you really need to begin
addressing a problem. Neither will they explore whether the thing you buy is
going to fit into your lifestyle. It's pretty gratifying to realize that some
cheap rubber is best for the job.

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codeshaman
"We are biological machines"

I tend to disagree with this definition.

The function of a body might look like a 'machine', but that machine is made
of trillions of small living beings (cells), all having the same properties as
the larger organism - they need to breathe, eat and drink, they age and they
multiply and each cell is a very specialised 'machine' in itself. So if you
want to call the body a 'machine', then call it a 'machine of machines'.

But there's more. Our bodies cannot exist outside of what we call 'nature'. We
need to eat other living beings in order to live. The living beings in turn
need to eat the remains of other living beings and so on.

The circle of life is the flow of water, energy and a couple percent of other
stuff (like minerals and proteins) through all living things. One thing is
transformed into another and so on, forever.

From that angle, living beings (including our bodies) are a process, a flow
through the matrix of Life, rather than a static object or mechanism.

This flow has continued since life first appeared and it has tuned itself to
perfection. Until recently, when we started intervening.

The obesity epidemic (and also cancers, cardiovascular diseases and many many
other 'modern' health issues) are the consequence of humans tinkering with
nature and our bodies.

From this perspective I agree with the OP, it is probably impossible to have a
healthy body in our society, until everybody becomes 'enlightened' about the
nature of reality around them. But we have other issues, like which political
party should win or what piece of land we need to grab.

All this while eating millions of tons of synthetic pills (prescribed by
doctors), consuming incredible amounts of meat grown in insane conditions and
fed with synthetic foods mixed with drugs watered down with lots of alcohol,
while breathing toxic air and drinking synthetic drinks.

The only way to be healthy is to be part of the circle of life, but we are
doing everything we can to disconnect ourselves from it and suffering the
consequences.

~~~
boronine
> The obesity epidemic (and also cancers, cardiovascular diseases and many
> many other 'modern' health issues) are the consequence of humans tinkering
> with nature and our bodies.

Cancers, cardiovascular diseases etc. are the consequence of humans living
long enough to develop them, thanks to modern medicine (tinkering with nature
and our bodies).

~~~
codeshaman
You mean the epidemic of people dying from heart attacks or strokes at 30 or
the obesity in children is something to brag about ?

The advancement in medicine is remarkable - the elimination of most infectious
diseases, the ER capabilities, etc, but we are taking medicine too far.

Medicine is brilliant at 'fixing' things, but now we have fixes for every
possible unpleasant feeling in our bodies and that is taking it too far. I
don't have the statistics now, but my guess is that most of the pills taken by
people are taken to relieve symptoms (like headaches or fever) and they are
usually totally unnecessary.

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Pitarou
I think I finally get why people actually want to live on Soylent. It's the
"abstention" cure for food addiction.

~~~
conradfr
That's a bit how I view "keto". If you read /r/keto people seems to discover
the golden diet and way of living. It's cool that it works for them but do you
really need a restrictive diet (I would even say "socially restrictive diet")
when the first I want to scream to Americans is "just eat smaller portions
FFS!".

~~~
cliveowen
If you read any subreddit people seems to discover the golden diet and way of
living. You have to remember theyre just strangers on the internet and you
have no reason to believe them over doctors. If there was actually a way
proved to result in long-term weight loss doctors would be using it, period.

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MBO35711
You have to change who you are, then you will move towards the equilibrium
weight of that new person.

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epo
Very sloppy writing. People diet, they lose a bit of weight. People stop
dieting, they put the weight back on again.

The fundamental problem is the abundance of overly calorific food in many
societies which the final comment hints at, ever so gently. People want a
quick fix but there is no quick fix for the problem of over consumption except
eat less.

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Swizec
As with many other addiction based ailments, you aren't cured from obesity,
you are simply in remission. As the cure for alcoholism is essentially to Just
Stop (tm) being an alcoholic, so the cure for obesity is to esentially Just
Stop (tm) being obese.

I'm sorry, there is no easy path. It's all up to you. Deal with it.

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holri
well this just shows weight loss does not do the trick. changing your
lifestyle does.

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huehue
Oh, cool. Better get fat now.

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dschiptsov
Punk science? How about taking opiates on a regular basis?)

What about, god forbid, taking a 5 km. run twice a week? How about never again
drinking a bottled coke/soda/pop, only teas without sugar (good teas are much
better without sugar)?

Almost everything is possible to some extent _only via changing ones habits_
because, in some sense, _everything_ , including our ability to stand
straight, is a habit.)

