
Innovation in Violinmaking (1998) - jonnybgood
https://josephcurtinstudios.com/innovation-in-violinmaking/
======
jackhack
A more recent article (2006) by the same author discuss his progress in
developing an "ultralight" violin: [https://josephcurtinstudios.com/subject-
to-change-innovation...](https://josephcurtinstudios.com/subject-to-change-
innovation-among-violinmakers/)

Curiously this new design remains under development today, with completion
listed as "fall 2018".

As an amateur luthier, I'm thrilled to see a push for innovation in the viol
family of instruments. It's an uphill battle -- any deviation from Cremona
design is seen as heresy and is immediately rejected. Even benign cosmetic
elements are dismissed out-of-hand. Thankfully this orthodoxy does not exist
in the folk instrument world, where innovation flourishes.

The author's comment about being a civil war re-enactment actor perfectly
captures what it feels like to be trapped by orthodoxy.

------
supernova87a
Wow, I was interested, but just couldn't get through the whole article without
a single figure or diagram to illustrate his points about what he would
change.

Perhaps I'll give it a try reading this much prose again when I have the time.

~~~
CarVac
Yeah, it assumes a good deal of prior knowledge about violins.

~~~
supernova87a
Oh, I play the violin. And even I was finding it hard to want to continue
reading a wall of text without a single diagram or figure...

------
jefftk
The author is mostly be optimizing for volume, and in a fully acoustic context
I see why that's a goal. But there's an enormous amount of vioin performance
that is either recorded or amplified, in which case volume doesn't matter
much. I'd love to see someone optimize for tone quality and responsiveness at
the expense of volume.

~~~
jackhack
From the article, about 4% of the energy from the bow is ejected as sound but
even that seemingly low figure may be near the top of what is possible,
mechanically speaking.

Even with amplification, there is always a desire for more potential volume
since that gives the musician a wider (potential) dynamic range. And an
instrument that is more sensitive is often more capable of the greatest
volume.

I think it's fair to say that the tone/volume struggle is a balance. No-one
wants a harsh-yet-loud instrument. And a beautifully resonant, lush instrument
that can't rise above the 2nd and 3rd chair instruments will be resigned to
solo work, only.

there's a saying in the luthier world : "you can give 'em volume or you can
give 'em tone, and they'll pick volume every time."

~~~
jefftk
_> And a beautifully resonant, lush instrument that can't rise above the 2nd
and 3rd chair instruments will be resigned to solo work, only._

There are a lot of recording and amplified gigs, though, where relative volume
doesn't matter much. For example, I play for dances with fiddlers, and the
fiddle is always amplified. A more responsive fiddle, one that let you keep
excellent tone while playing faster, or one with just better tone all around
would would easily be worth accepting lower unamplified volume from.

------
mrob
The most obvious innovation would be replacing the friction peg tuners with
guitar-style machine heads. This wouldn't perceptibly change the sound, but it
would make the violin easier to keep in tune. But violinists care more about
tradition, so this obvious improvement isn't done.

~~~
ItsMe000001
The German carbon violin maker mezzo-forte - by the way, that's one hell of an
innovation - uses Wittner fine tuning pegs:

> _The Wittner Fine Tune pegs retain the traditional hardwood appearance
> demanded by professional musicians while offering a unique internal gearing
> system that makes them a revelation to use._

I'm thinking about buying some of those pegs myself. I saw them for 80 Euros
for a violin. They come in two sizes, 7.8 mm and 8.6 mm.

When I read violin forums it's often about name dropping. Who made the
instrument? How ancient is it? When I bought my first violin I told them my
upper limit and to give me instruments without telling me _anything at all_
about them. I tried about 8 different ones for two hours and ended up spending
1000 Euros (just the pure instrument without anything else, well, strings of
course, Thomastik Dominant). I never looked at any of them closely, not even
the one I ended up buying. Only when I was back home did I really have a look
at what I bought. Until then I only cared about how it felt and how it
sounded. I considered a Mezzo-Forte (carbon) but thought I'm not advanced
enough to be able to make good decision (yet), besides, it would have cost
2400 Euros, quite a bit more. What I read about that carbon instrument was
pretty positive - pretty much all negative comments were almost all along the
line "it's not traditional", often without even having ever tried one.

[https://www.mezzo-forte.de/en/](https://www.mezzo-forte.de/en/)

[https://www.simplyforstrings.com.au/blog/wittner-finetune-
pe...](https://www.simplyforstrings.com.au/blog/wittner-finetune-pegs-make-
their-mark/)

[https://www.thomann.de/gb/wittner_violin_tuning_pegs_4_4_78....](https://www.thomann.de/gb/wittner_violin_tuning_pegs_4_4_78.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjIiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0%3D)
(linking only the 7.8 mm version)

~~~
mathw
I want some of those pegs! The dance between the fine tuners and the pegs is
frustrating, and I don't like the look of a tailpiece with four little screws
sticking out of it.

I'd love some for my viol even more, as it's got seven strings all made of gut
and goes out of tune with the slightest shift in humidity or temperature.
Anybody who doubts the progress of violin making just needs to play the viol
for a while, as viol design is still mostly just recreations of the old
instruments. Or play baroque violin - violin as Stradivarius actually made it
- and understand that progress has been made.

I think the adherence to worship of the past is a relatively modern thing, but
it's nice to see things moving around. I've seen quite a few very interesting
instruments on the English folk scene lately by Tim Phillips.

~~~
ItsMe000001
Just to add to my list of links, the actual manufacturer website (1990s style
design but _tons_ of information) is

[https://www.wittner-gmbh.de/](https://www.wittner-gmbh.de/)

------
willyt
This is maybe a stupid question, but why don’t violins have markings to
indicate the notes. Obviously you wouldn’t have physical frets like a guitar
because that would alter the sound, but one of the reasons beginners sound so
awful is because it takes years before they can reliably play in tune. Is
there a reason why?

~~~
seanhunter
Not a violinist but I used to be a professional double bass player and the
issues are somewhat similar (actually worse on violin than double bass because
the gauge is shorter and therefore the margin for error is less).

Beginners do sometimes stick stickers on the fretboard, however these are
generally not encouraged.

Firstly if you're looking at the fingerboard while playing a violin your neck
would be in a really bad position, so it would encourage a bad habit. To learn
to play in tune, you train your ear (so you know what in tune is) and your
proprioception (so you know where your body needs to be in space to make the
instrument be in tune).

Secondly, the difference in area between the note being beautifully in tune
and sounding awful is really small, so in order for a sticker or visual cue to
help your head and the instrument would have to be in exact alignment at all
times and even then you may not be able to see. This is made much worse by
parallax. When playing the violin even if you are looking at the strings, you
are looking down the fingerboard towards the nut rather than across the
fingerboard like in the case of a guitar, remember.

Thirdly, if you're looking at your fingers you're not looking at your music
(which you need to when you're a beginner) or your conductor or fellow players
(as you need to when you're actually performing).

~~~
KyleBrandt
Another ex-double bassist, but started on Violin for about 10 years.

I agree with the above but also add that any permanent markings would be
problematic because wood expands and shrinks and therefore markings would not
remain in the place.

That being said, on the rare occasion of a double bass solo in orchestra I
would usually mark a starting point on my fingerboard with pencil.

