
Exactly How Screwed Is PayPal? (Hint: Very) - davidedicillo
http://pandodaily.com/2012/07/14/exactly-how-screwed-is-paypal-hint-very/
======
jacques_chester
If you're based in the USA, if your business is largely with Americans and
conducted exclusively in USD, then: yes. You're in luck.

What's that? You're one of the 6.7 billion people who _don't_ live in the USA?
You want to conduct business in more than one currency? You're not an American
company?

Then guess what: you're still stuck with PayPal.

Nobody seems to get that PayPal's killer feature is not its userbase. It's
that it's everywhere and has multi-currency support.

I would very much like to use Stripe or Braintree or whoever there is who
doesn't resemble the truly and sincerely Kafkaesque[1] experience of dealing
with PayPal. But until I, as an Australian, can do business with foreigners
_in their currency_ then Stripe and the like are basically useless to me.

All I can do is lick the windows.

[1]: I'm semi-serious. Read _The Trial_ and tell me it wasn't written about
having a PayPal account frozen.

~~~
rickmb
Funny enough, I came here to argue more or less _the opposite_.

In many countries, the standard payment problems have been largely solved
locally, at least for the local markets. In the Netherlands, a wide selection
of payment providers will give you the ability to receive payment through
virtually any method.

Merchant accounts are easy to get, and the most popular local form of payment,
iDeal (direct "my bank to your bank" payment), is supported by all banks and
can be easily implemented without the need for any payment provider. The vast
majority of all only transactions in NL go through iDeal.

Most payment providers also offer multi-currency support, but it's only a very
small part of the market that needs that. The use of PayPal is very rare and
becoming rarer by the day. It's about as old school as seeing a "made for
Netscape" button on a website.

There's only one area where PayPal is easier and more accessible, and that is
very low budget private stuff like donations on a small software project. But
given the constant horror stories about PayPal, any solution that targets that
market effectively will wipe PayPal away in a matter of months. And then
PayPal will be history in the Netherlands.

~~~
mdemare
< In many countries, the standard payment problems have been largely solved
locally, at least for the local markets. In the Netherlands, a wide selection
of payment providers will give you the ability to receive payment through
virtually any method.

Is it really? Sometimes I feel the Netherlands is the only country where it's
been solved. Who of you live in a country with a satisfying, cheap, standard
local payment provider?

~~~
jeltz
In Sweden you can either use bank transfer, invoice (provided by Klarna), and
I do not think accepting credit card payments is hard either.

Almost no Swedish businesses who target the Swedish market use Paypal. Paypal
is mostly use by Swedish companies when they want to target any country in the
world (for example Minecraft).

~~~
kalleboo
Dealing with the Swedish credit card providers isn't really any nicer than
dealing with PayPal, but it feel better to be dealing with a local company in
case something goes wrong.

In Europe bank transfers solve the person-person transfers so there's no need
for PayPal for those situations, but for small fry accepting credit card
payments it's hard to beat.

------
draftable
"Has anyone under 30 ever bid on something on eBay?"

What a load of shit. I'm 25, and I use ebay all the time.

Sure, you can make the argument that Etsy and Amazon are taking business away
from eBay. But suggesting that they have replaced eBay as a platform is
ridiculous. This is also a very USA-centric view to take. I'm from Australia,
so using Amazon is a pain due to manufacturer export restrictions, and the
often prohibitively expensive shipping costs. So in many cases eBay is a
better alternative. And as for Etsy, it serves a niche. If you want to set up
an online store to sell kitschy homemade toot, knock yourself out and use
Etsy. But if I want to sell some of my second hand stuff, eBay is what I'm
using.

~~~
brimanning
You, being merely a single example of an individual who does not fit her
statement, does not invalidate her point that it's a marketplace that an older
demographic audience uses.

If she (and you) could demonstrate that as being true (or false) with research
and statistics, then she (and you) would have a leg to stand on.

~~~
DanBC
Draftable isn't getting paid to peddle anecdotes though.

------
trotsky
Hint: However much the venture investors in my blog want me to tell you it is

~~~
ojbyrne
It also feels like a thinly disguised way to send traffic to NSFW Corp.

------
zs11
Wow, that's a shockingly bad article, even from Sarah Lacy's standards. Here's
a summary:

"Here's a list of PayPal's fringe competitors" -> PayPal is VERY screwed

"Ex-PayPal co-founder says bad things about PayPal, while investing in a small
competitor" -> PayPal is VERY screwed

"Young startup has a better user experience compared to 10-year old behemoth"
-> PayPal is VERY screwed.

Sure, some of Lacy's Valley friends are making (or investing in) interesting
products in the payments space, but man, does she let her 'network' write all
her articles or what.

------
bretthopper
I'm going to ignore all of this article except for:

"The first step was Canada, where Stripe has just gone live. It’s actively
working on Western Europe too."

This isn't even true is it? There's no mention of this on their site/blog.
Nothing on Google. Their Twitter feed even recently replied to someone saying
it isn't in Canada.

~~~
marekmroz
It is in a private beta in Canada as of last weekend. You can ask them for an
invite.

~~~
bretthopper
Awesome! "just gone live" is a bit misleading then.

~~~
alaskamiller
I read it as live but not public. You're reading tech blogs, their main beef
is to get news as soon as possible.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Live means that it's publicly available as a finished product, doesn't it?
Private beta is not "live". That's like saying a stage show has opened when
they're doing a dress rehearsal.

~~~
alaskamiller
It's like saying the show is on, it's live, there's a reception for VIPs then
there the general admission are allowed in.

------
nowarninglabel
Yeah, let's just ignore all facts, such as actual financials, those don't
matter when you're a tech reporter who likes to make things up out of thin
air, right?

I dislike PayPal, but this is a terrible piece, and what is it, fluff for
NSFW, Corp.?

~~~
nsns
Completely agree. The most shockingly amusing part is in the second paragraph,
where she uses the fact she has no financial proof as her financial proof...

------
WadeF
All I can think about when reading this is Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

See: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4092880>

~~~
octotoad
This has to be one of the most invaluable filtering techniques I've learned to
employ in the past year or so in regard to sites like HN.

It seems obvious in hindsight, but I'd never realised how many article
headlines ending with a question mark naturally contained so much fluff.

I now instinctively answer the question with a 'no' and move on without
reading any further.

------
sakopov
PayPal is not going anywhere for the same reason Facebook is not going
anywhere - over time both created a solid presence for non-technical users. No
matter how cool squared looks i can guarantee you a typical paypal user won't
care because what they have works good enough. It's the same reason G+ will
never be more popular than facebook. For a typical user there is very little
incentive to switch.

------
krautsourced
"It may not be showing up in PayPal’s numbers yet. Indeed, by the time you
start to see these things on the balance sheet, the damage is irreversible.
The question is whether it can still be reversed now." So much Win in that
small paragraph alone. So, the numbers are good, put you are not convinced...
because why? Ah yes, the damage is irreversible - let's see how we can reverse
the irreversible then, shall we? Mind, blown.

------
timedoctor
I have two reports of people having their accounts frozen for 6 months at
paypal for no apparent reason, no recourse and no explanation.

I also have severe problems paying with paypal. Why is it that I can pay on
amazon, apple, expedia etc etc very easily, never have a problem, but when I
try to enter my credit card on paypal they do not allow the payment?

And yes from personal experience braintree is a million times better than
paypal.

------
ars
Personally I think it's time for ebay to get rid of listing fees and MASSIVELY
increase it's listings.

These days I go to amazon first for used stuff since people can list there
with no fees, so I get better deals.

The only place where ebay wins is one of a kinds since amazon will only sell
items with SKU's or part numbers.

~~~
gergles
The reason listing fees exist is to reduce the amount of dumped crap onto
eBay. Besides, for individual sellers, listing fees are basically gone (or de
minimis) anyway. There's a perpetual 'promotion' for your first N listings a
month to be free of listing fees.

~~~
wahnfrieden
Interesting how Yahoo Japan got away with having no listing fee. And continue
to be successful with it. Cultural? Or just precedence since dominating the
market there?

------
tomjen3
Tripe fails at a very important point.

Paypal subscriptions are dead simple to cancel and there is no way to for the
merchant to make any funny business, at all.

------
zerostar07
Hint: the hint is misleading

------
rsanchez1
"Has anyone under 30 ever bid on something on eBay?"

I'm under 30, and I just won two auctions in the past week, bidding on many
more to buy at the lowest price.

Really, we're posting articles from Pando? And it's from Sarah Lacey to boot.
This article can't be anything but accurate. Oh, hold on, never mind...

~~~
koala_advert
I'm 20 and use it all the time. Don't people buy used things anymore?

~~~
chubs
Not in my experience. I can't sell any of my used stuff on ebay these days,
however years ago it used to be great. These days i basically have to throw
stuff out! Things i've tried to move: speakers, leather jackets, fridges-
nobody wants it on ebay any more. It's just a buy-it-now-opolis these days.

~~~
smiler
Set market prices and it will sell

