
U.S. Can't Make Weapons Fast Enough to Meet Demand - prostoalex
http://fortune.com/2015/12/04/us-weapons-demand/
======
jemfinch
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies,
in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who
are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the
hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern
brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each
serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.
It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane
with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new
homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the
best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is
not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening
war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. … Is there no other way the
world may live?"

~~~
skuhn
For those who aren't familiar with it, the parent is quoting from Eisenhower's
1953 Chance for Peace speech [1].

There's an interesting piece from the NY Times in 2013 about what a bomber
would buy today [2]. The situation has become considerably worse.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_for_Peace_speech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_for_Peace_speech)

[2] [http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/what-would-a-
fight...](http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/what-would-a-fighter-jet-
buy-60-years-after-eisenhowers-speech/)

~~~
stickfigure
"Software saved the aerospace industry. Every other way of adding cost to an
airplane also adds weight."

------
hitekker
Side note: I wish discussion boards had a feature where you could upvote
literature or some basic articles relating the to topics covered in the OP.
This way people who are not familiar with the matter, or perhaps just curious
about alternative interpretations could see other sources that the community
deems worthy.

For the article above, it would likely be an intersection of "War on ISIS",
"Military Industrial Complex" and some less relevant, smaller topics, e.g.
Weapons Manufacturing.

Having a mechanism for storing background knowledge would be quite a bit nicer
than just saying "I recommend 'War is a racket'. Especially since communities
will downvote comments they think are prosaic, but are still helpful for
newcomers.

~~~
dools
Awesome I'd never heard of 'war is a racket', thanks! In return let me
reccomend "the ruses for war" by john quigley and confessions of an economic
hitman (and others) by john quigley as well as "a game as old as empire" with
foreward by the same.

~~~
hitekker
Thank you in return: judging from google it seems like Quigley can teach the
nontrivial stuff.

~~~
dools
Indeed! And once you're through with that check out Modern Money Theory by
Randall Wray which puts the whole shitfight into a solid economical context!

------
vippy
Because there's no other way around this but to be political, can't we sort
out our crumbling infrastructure, education, and healthcare systems before
worrying about blowing up a middle-age, middle eastern cult? Can we not let
them get the better of us? Or have we entirely sold out to the arms industry?

~~~
oconnore
They've already launched direct attacks on our allies, and more recently
inspired attacks on US soil. They are holding territory, are self funded
(generously), and are recruiting around the globe. Arguably they are more
dangerous than Al-Qaeda ever was.

Doesn't this merit a military response? If not, what on earth would?

~~~
npunt
If you want to cut off the snake at its head, cut the money supply. Its not
like we live in some great era of terrorism - there's always been deranged
people who wish to destroy and whom get a few followers. The difference
between that phenomenon and ISIS is they've secured some land that produces
oil, and have a buyer - Turkey. This suggests hard-nosed diplomacy before
military intervention, especially as the result of the latter 10 years ago is
literally the reason we have this current mess.

~~~
hnamazon123
Islamic State needs oil money to sustain its military, not the terrorists that
it sends into Europe. The most expensive cost there is airfare and
weapons/munitions.

Additionally, cutting off funding doesn't solve the issue of homegrown
terrorism, a la Sayed Farook who is a salaried employee and set up an IED
factory in his home. He probably paid for that himself.

~~~
npunt
First, I'd bet that ISIS money is spent on a lot more than military - what
about providing a cushy experience for previously recruited western radicals,
so that they tell others back home how great it is? Can't find the link, but
varieties in accommodations for recently recruited western radicals vs others
is causing some internal strife. If you came over to ISIS from some nice first
world place like London, only to find yourself in a very uncomfortable,
foreign desert environment eating crap food, you probably wouldn't send
message back that everything's great. That costs money.

Second, you assume the cost of propaganda is 0, which it is not. ISIS has gone
so far as to publish a very high production value magazine [0] and high
quality recruitment videos. You can bet that there are tons of people on
message boards and other corners of the net that are on ISIS payroll out there
trying to radicalize as many people as possible, offering a (twisted) sense of
purpose and meaning in their lives. And people collecting and disseminating
content on how best to make IEDs, kill people, etc. They undoubtedly have many
social media managers.

In my first comment I was going to add another point which was that if we were
able to completely wipe out ISIS that will not all of a sudden stop people
from being radicalized, it will only stop those being radicalized by ISIS.
ISIS happens to recruit better than most (due to their money), but there will
always be people, often marginalized, who will fall prey to radicalization -
and some who seek it out. Sayed seems like he was that kind of guy, ISIS or
no.

Everyone's all up in arms about ISIS because we're being blanketed by news
about them, which is not proportional to the threat they actually pose to us.
Paris was a manifestation of longstanding troubles with european countries
integrating muslim immigrants which likely created necessary conditions for
radicalization by [insert crazy people]; San Bernardino was very likely a
manifestation of mental health issues and cultural marginalization/domestic
political climate. These issues are unlikely to go away when ISIS does - the
latter we have an example of from just the week prior with the Planned
Parenthood shooter.

[0] [http://www.clarionproject.org/news/islamic-state-isis-
isil-p...](http://www.clarionproject.org/news/islamic-state-isis-isil-
propaganda-magazine-dabiq)

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calinet6
This is a feedback loop. It will not slow or reverse without systemic
intervention.

------
transfire
That's what happens when you supply both sides of a conflict.

------
everyone
The military industrial complex in action.

 _This_ is the real motivation behind these conflicts.

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xacaxulu
I see opportunity. US arms industry needs DevOps methodologies to increase
velocity.

~~~
engi_nerd
As a person in that industry...what do you mean by "DevOps methodologies"? And
what do you mean by increasing velocity?

Are you saying, "The US arms industry needs to be more agile in responding to
the needs of its customers by producing better weapons in shorter periods of
time"? If so, then your real problem is not with the industry.

Some black projects and other less sensitive but desperately needed projects
can be "short-circuited" by being done without the usual oversight and red
tape. You will only find out about those years after they are fielded, if
ever. But most programs are subject to this process:
[http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2010/09/atl_wal...](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2010/09/atl_wall_chart.jpg)

Do you understand everything that's going on in this chart? I don't either,
and I was forced to attend several weeks worth of classroom training plus more
online training in the nuances of this process. Anyone who wishes to develop a
major weapons system must work through this process, which is mandated by US
federal law.

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haffla
Honestly I'd like to verify these numbers because I can't believe them. 5bn $
in 2 days? That can't be!!!

