
What can Tata's Nano ($2500 car) teach Detroit? - brkumar
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/mar2009/id20090318_012120.htm?chan=innovation_innovation+%2B+design_top+stories
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goodkarma
America's Big 3 automakers have been lazy and complacent for years. They
haven't made substantial increases in fuel efficiency in decades, and
preferred to sue California to fight the zero-emission vehicle law rather than
sell more electric cars. They take tons of handouts from the government
(hydrogen research, hybrid research, bailout money, etc.) yet lose millions
per day.

Bottom line: they don't deserve to be in business.

Even if Tata's Nano is $5k, I would buy one.

~~~
jwilliams
Your two statements seem at odds - You want less pollution, but you're happy
for hordes of people to buy a new, polluting car - especially one which
doesn't have the same emission standards. e.g. It's catalytic converter isn't
nearly as efficient as western cars.

Maybe we should be getting out of cars altogether and invest in the public
transport system.

~~~
jrockway
_Maybe we should be getting out of cars altogether and invest in the public
transport system._

Agreed. We need to start treating cars like other harmful habits, like smoking
and gambling, and tax the hell out of them. We also need to eliminate fares on
our public transportation systems. (Nobody's going to take the bus a few
blocks to the store when it costs $2.25. But I bet they'll take it when they
can just get on for free.)

Anyway, I bet that this will not happen in my lifetime.

~~~
stcredzero
There's a "downtown zone" in Minneapolis, where bus travel just costs $0.50.
People will definitely take the bus a few blocks to shop at Target for $0.50
each way. I do it and I observe lots of others doing it. (The markup in the
local corner stores definitely makes it worth it!)

~~~
jwilliams
This sounds cool - but I'd ask - if it's so cheap, why not just make it free?

Would cut the cost of ticketing, speed things up, etc, etc.

~~~
stcredzero
As far as I know, there's no tickets for the $0.50 downtown zone. Just drop
two quarters in. There may be a way for the wireless fare card (Go To card) to
pay that, but I don't know. I just get a roll of quarters from the bank when I
need it, and I walk to/from work half the time.

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brk
Despite the question in the headline of this article, there is very little
actionable advice. "Get closer to the customer" is about the best teaching the
author can come up with.

There has been a lot of talk about this $2500 car, but everything I've read
(in articles with actual data) indicate that there is no way to sell the car
for $2500 and cover the cost of raw materials plus assembly/shipping. This is
even with the concept of the dealer doing some of the final assembly. Then you
have to offset R&D costs, and the other overhead of trying to run an
automaker.

A car at a sub-$5,000 pricepoint might work in India, where the regulations
are much less stringent than in the US. But, to imply that there is any great
new innovation here that other automakers (I don't see Toyota with a $5,000
vehicle, either) have missed is somewhat of a stretch.

~~~
brkumar
As pointed by business week(via trak.in), the innovations made by Tata Nano
are:

    
    
       1. The car was built from ground up.
       2. The supply chain was simplified by making the suppliers partners.
       3. Shipping the whole car as kits for the downstream distributors to assemble, thus reducing several costs.
       4. The key success factor for Tata Nano project was price. The price was fixed and everything else just worked around it.
    

Agreed, regulations are less stringent in India. However, price is an
innovation. I can argue that a retrofitted Tata Nano will cost no more then
$5000 for US market. So, there is ample room for innovation.

~~~
stcredzero
Given Detroit's record, the lesson they might take is:

    
    
        We need to hire more lobbyists to work on those pesky safety regs

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mynameishere
It's an India-only car. It would be a death trap on American roads, and so
Detroit has really nothing to learn from them. Detroit always had well-staffed
marketing departments to tell them what to do, and for the most part it
worked. The problems were always elsewhere. It's just a liberal fantasy that
Americans want caskets with wheels.

2500 dollars will get me a decent used car.

~~~
SingAlong
You should at the specs really.

The last time I read its review during a local auto-showin my place, the
middle class guys would probably go for a revised version of the good old
Maruti-800 car which costs around $5000 approx and has the basic safety
features that a car requires (and also A/C and other optionals). But Nano
doesn't even have a front bumper.

So as you said it's really just a casket on wheels that people should avoid
buying (what's a car without it's basic safety features).

I'm not much into auto, but I guess there's a govt team that reviews cars
manufactured in India. So if that team ever reviews such a car, it should
presumably fail the safety test (so guess that the Tata guys 'might have'
bribed them).

~~~
aagnihot
"Nano" is not meant to compete with Toyota/Honda/GM. Tata Nano offers an
alternative to 2-wheeler owners to own a car. Also, Nano is good candidate to
replace India's 3-wheeler auto-rickshaws. India's emission norms are based on
euro-emission norms. So they are no as lenient as perceived. Moreover, This
car is meant to be used for intra-city transport. The speed here is around
30-50km/hr. At such a speed, it is less likely to have fatal accidents. What
must be appreciated is Ratan Tata's ambitious vision and excellent execution
by Tata Motors to achieve their goal.

~~~
lucumo
> India's emission norms are based on euro-emission norms.

I didn't notice that when I lived there. It was hard to breath in busy
intersections. As a European I'm quite sure that isn't happening here.

But the standards are probably different for old vs. newly produced vehicles.

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GeneralMaximus
Okay, so plus ten for style but minus several million for good thinking.

The Maruti-800 is a stripped down, fuel efficient car that anyone with decent
enough job should be able to afford. The Nano might be good for small towns,
but for places like New Delhi, anything less than an 800 is not viable. One of
the biggest objections to the Nano has been a lack of safety. The last I
heard, even the screws TATA were using were made of plastic.

Also, this car still isn't available for purchase yet. I wonder why the
article is touting it as a success. The OLPC was suppossed to be big, but I
don't really see it changing lives.

BTW, there's a cheap electric car already available for purchase in India,
called the Reva. It has been pretty successful, and you see a lot of them
these days. Here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reva>

Yo Bikes are also a _huge_ success, probably more successful than any other
electric vehicle. Here: <http://yobykes.in/>

That's not to say the Nano doesn't make me go "Ooh ... shiny.".

------
ivankirigin
I've been told that the Indian middle class will prefer a regular car. But
this certainly beats a scooter.

I have a Vespa. I'd love a covered motorcycle. It could be electric, because I
have no plans on going long distances. Solar panels on such a small vehicle
might actually work quite well. They could unfold from the sides to take up
the same area as the roof of a sedan.

~~~
jwilliams
I don't think that area (of solar panels) would be sufficient to generate any
serious charge.

Good sun in an ideal case is around 1kw/m2. Whereas, a scooter output will be
around 10kw (?).

So naturally depends on how much area you really want to invest in. But I'd
say 1m2 would be the maximum for a fold-out on a scooter.

With the losses, less ideal sun, the weight of the batteries and the solar
panels - not sure this would add up as a viable solution... You'd need to be
charging for a day or two just to get an hour's output.

A plug-in option probably more viable.

~~~
ivankirigin
The model would be quick trips, rarely more than 30 minutes. Parking for the
day in a lot at work, for example, would be more than enough to get home.

I'd also want a plug-in option for nighttime charging.

I think 1m2 is a very low estimate. Keep in mind I'm describing a covered
bike.

I live in Massachusetts, where it should be a crime to buy solar panels, given
the dearth of sun. If I lived in SoCal, Nevada, or Arizona, this project would
be very workable.

~~~
jwilliams
If you're commuting like that, then just put the panels on your house - and
plug the bike in.

Having the portability of the solar panels doesn't seem necessary if it's just
a down-the-road commuter.

