
Chorded keyboard - tosh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard
======
jnty
Why did these never take off, even in a 'big niche' way? Is corrected typing
on a smartphone sufficiently speedy for it not to matter? Is the skill
required more at the 'musical instrument' level than the 'touch typing' level?
Something to do with voice recognition always getting better?

~~~
claforte
Price, availability. For instance, steno software costed thousands of dollars.
But this is about to change:

\- Plover is a free, cross-platform steno software:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZGuBV1xe64](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZGuBV1xe64)

\- This Canadian guy develops cool, quality steno and ergonomic boards. The
Georgi is $95USD - significantly less expensive than alternatives. There
aren't any official reviews yet, but Plover users on Discord seem to really
like it.

[https://www.gboards.ca/product/georgi](https://www.gboards.ca/product/georgi)
(web site appears temporarily down though - was up yesterday.)

I'm planning to buy one this week - trying to get my boss to cover it since it
will help with my mild RSI.

~~~
SuperPaintMan
Don't forget the QWERTY mode! Steno requires a huge time commitment to learn,
chorded QWERTY much less so.

And if you don't like it, it's a QMK based board so it can be reprogrammed!

[http://docs.gboards.ca/Unboxing-Georgi](http://docs.gboards.ca/Unboxing-
Georgi)

~~~
opencl
There's also the more traditional Ergodox-like Gergo that is mostly a normal
QWERTY board with some ergonomic improvements.

[https://www.gboards.ca/category/gergo](https://www.gboards.ca/category/gergo)

------
elwell
As a daily Emacs user, I find the key-chord package [0] very useful. For
example, to save a buffer all I have to press is "hu" (at the same time). It's
a simple thing, but saves a little time and lessens "emacs pinky"; I use it
hundreds of times a day.

[0] -
[https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/KeyChord](https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/KeyChord)

In my .emacs.d -
[https://github.com/celwell/.emacs.d/blob/master/init.el#L261...](https://github.com/celwell/.emacs.d/blob/master/init.el#L261-L274)

~~~
dfee
Isn’t that awkward though? I type H and U with the same finger. So now this
involves some strange wrist / arm rotation - or changing the way I type.

~~~
256
Probably elwell is a Dvorak user. hu is pressed with both index fingers in
their home positions in Dvorak.

------
steveeq1
Here's a chorded keyboard that I bought to use with a NLS/Augment clone I
bought for my PC: [https://www.infogrip.com/bat-
keyboard.html](https://www.infogrip.com/bat-keyboard.html)

Just in case anyone's interested.

~~~
ftio
I've been reading a lot about NLS/Augment (and Engelbart in general) lately.
Any more information on your setup?

If you're interested in bragging/chatting more about it, my email is in my
profile. I'd love to learn about what you're doing.

~~~
steveeq1
The program I am using is here:
[http://www.ndma.com/resources/ndm8543.htm](http://www.ndma.com/resources/ndm8543.htm)

However, it doesn't seem to be updated beyond 1994. And it's missing some
things from Augment like the journal. But the system itself is nearly
identical with augment regarding the commands and stuff. Which is why I bought
the chorded keyboard so I can experience it engelbart-style.

Toying with the idea of making a version of this in pharo smalltalk because I
think one of the things that makes augment great is the customizability of it.
Like emacs, if it doesn't do what you want, you change the code inline while
it's running.

~~~
ftio
Thanks!

------
tareqak
A few similar keyboards used as gamepads

1\. Belkin nostromo n52 -
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostromo_SpeedPad_n52](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostromo_SpeedPad_n52)

2\. Razer Tartarus V2 - [https://www.razer.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-
tartaru...](https://www.razer.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-tartarus-v2)

3\. Razer Orbweaver - [https://www.razer.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-
orbweav...](https://www.razer.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-orbweaver-
chroma)

~~~
css
These are all the same product with different switches and labels on the box,
interestingly enough.

~~~
aeonflux
But how is this related to chorded keyboard? Those are just smaller keyboards,
with much less buttons.

~~~
tareqak
If I recall correctly, the macro software lets you switch to a color directly
which would be like a single chord [0]. On top of that you could use also have
other buttons mapped to the standard modifier keys like Ctrl, Alt, and Meta.

[0]
[https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5TkmS5Cyz80/TYkb47wkGzI/AAAAAAAAA...](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5TkmS5Cyz80/TYkb47wkGzI/AAAAAAAAADA/jnS6D0fYCnQ/s1600/normal_mode.jpg)
from [https://sc2mechanics.blogspot.com/2011/03/configuring-
belkin...](https://sc2mechanics.blogspot.com/2011/03/configuring-
belkin-n52-for-starcraft-2.html)

------
tartavull
I built one some time ago. [https://medium.com/@tartavull/thor-your-next-
keyboard-20b9ce...](https://medium.com/@tartavull/thor-your-next-
keyboard-20b9ce7dd2b1)

~~~
zamadatix
Do you still use it? If so how does your WPM compare to a standard keyboard
these days?

I've always wanted to try one of these out but I'm not much of one to make it
myself.

------
DoofusOfDeath
There are many comments about the pros / cons / learning-curves /
customization-payoffs involved for chorded keyboards.

I'm struck my how similar this is to a discussion about using vim.

------
imglorp
Emacs supports chorded key combinations.

[http://melpa.org/#/key-chord](http://melpa.org/#/key-chord)

~~~
thih9
For vim users, there is a plugin called arpeggio:
[https://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2425](https://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2425)

------
ashton314
Reminds me of this app for mobile:

[https://www.dotkeyboard.com/](https://www.dotkeyboard.com/)

I’ve tried it a bit; not bad, but I can still type faster on my phone with my
thumbs. One guy at my school (I think he helps develop this keyboard) has
reportedly gotten up (or past) 60 wpm.

~~~
andai
>With users reaching typing speeds of up to 65 wpm or more on their phone or
tablet, DOTKey has unlocked the potential of mobile devices

I just did a typing test on my regular phone keyboard and got 60. But maybe
this will bring me up to desktop speeds. And if I get a physical corded
keyboard, I'll go interstellar!

------
sharno
Seems like the concept behind the Tap strap: [https://www.amazon.com/Tap-
Bluetooth-Wearable-Controller-Sma...](https://www.amazon.com/Tap-Bluetooth-
Wearable-Controller-Smartphone/dp/B07BVVFZYY)

~~~
0-_-0
I like this idea the most, where you wear a ring on each of your fingers.
Ideally you could map individual muscles in your hand to keys, which could
give you a keyboard on 1 hand that you could use with any device: phone,
desktop etc.

------
aeonflux
This is quite modern take on this, but doesn't seem it took off:
[https://www.tekgear.com/twiddler3.html](https://www.tekgear.com/twiddler3.html)

~~~
Doxin
I own one, but never did manage to get much fluency with it. The build quality
is good, though keeping it positioned in your hand right is tricky. I hold it
with the bottom on my thigh so it doesn't slip down. The mouse joystick isn't
analog and therefore basically useless.

That said, the ergonomics of it are stupid amounts better than any keyboard.
You can just wheel your chair back a bit and sit however is comfortable.
Changing position while using it is much easier too since you're just holding
it in your hand.

I should get back to practicing on it I think. The advantages would be
enormous.

------
_raoulcousins
I use JetBrains IDEs a lot, and on my full size keyboard (kinesis freestyle
pro), the key combinations are an uncomfortable for my small hands. Haven't
done anything about it yet (and I'm not sure what I'll change), but I could
really benefit from shortening how far I have to reach.

------
carapace
A little bit of (self-)hypnosis goes a long way with these, for picking up the
motor patterns and then using them automatically (touch typing). Because you
don't have to move your hands you can go really fast, achieve the illusion of
direct mind-to-machine input. YMMV.

~~~
nanomonkey
Can you explain more, or point us to a document on the subject? I purchased a
twiddler 2 some time ago and found it to be a frustrating experience, although
something that I'd like to utilize more.

~~~
carapace
Well, on the subject of hypnosis I recommend two books: "TRANCE-formations"
(sic) by Bandler and Grinder, and "Monsters and Magical Sticks" by Heller

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/956297.Trance_Formations](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/956297.Trance_Formations)

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/447454.Monsters_and_Magi...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/447454.Monsters_and_Magical_Sticks)

If you're going to learn to operate your bio-computer, please don't stop at
typing faster, eh?

\- - - -

One of the basic "exercises" or "techniques" that people often do with
(self-)hypnosis is to set up a simple binary yes/no signal from the
subconscious mind to the conscious mind, e.g. a finger twitches for yes, wags
for no (non-response is a kind of "does not compute, please rephrase"
message.)

From there you can "leverage" the connection for more structured
communication. E.g. the Six-Step Reframe algorithm
[https://gist.github.com/calroc/4719702](https://gist.github.com/calroc/4719702)
(deprecated in the 80's BTW.)

In re: these chorded input devices, the basic idea is that you set up with
your unconscious motor programs to wiggle the chorded keyboard the right way,
letting your conscious subjective experience be that of "pouring" your words
from your inner voice (or imagery) directly to your machine.

Once you've got good communication with your subconscious mind, it's pretty
easy. I used to do it w/ a just a Dvorak layout.

------
parentheses
The coordination needed to type fast on this keyboard seems like it'd be an
issue. Additionally, defining "simultaneously pressed keys" seems hard and
would oppose typing speed if it were to be more permissive and cause typing
errors if it were tighter.

------
fsiefken
I used a twiddler and a frogpad for wearable computing, but decided on
inputing through morse, voice or on screen keyboard (like oculus go/quest or
daydream) and do the rest with a regular tweaked dvorak keyboard

------
diafygi
All the security experts on HN say you should use a passcode instead of a
fingerprint for unlocking your phone. However, it seems fairly easy for
someone to just watch you over your shoulder input your passcode (i.e.
"shoulder surf"), or have it be recorded on increasingly ever-present
surveillance cameras (e.g. buses, subways, food courts, etc.).

What about putting buttons along the sides of your phone and using chorded
combinations as your passcode? Seems squeezing those buttons would be much
harder to observe or record (intentionally or unintentionally).

~~~
api_or_ipa
On my Galaxy S9+, I have 4 buttons: power, vol up/down and a stupid useless
bixby button. Ignoring how to put it into 'password' mode, each of these
buttons is effectively a bit. I assume you need at least 1 key to register an
input (otherwise wait for a pause which I won't consider), so you get 15
possibilities. I think you could make a reasonably strong password using 4-8
chords (15^4-15^8 possibilities). Anyways, it's certainly better than those
swipe passwords with an effective length of 9 Cr 4 == 128 which are readily
seen and copied by nearby people.

~~~
radeklew
Do you mean to say there are 9 choose 4 == 126 possible combinations for a 3x3
pattern? I think this would only be true if you could use a maximum of four
dots in the pattern, which isn't the case.

Although calculating it this way will double-count some patterns which include
long lines, I would say that there ar far closer to 9! == 362880 passwords.
Even if long lines cut that space in half, 150000 more than meets your minimum
of 15^4.

~~~
api_or_ipa
You're right. I goofed on my analysis. Instead of chose, it's indeed a
factorial. You're also right, you can chose up to 9 dots, so indeed it is up
to 9! combinations. Thanks for catching that.

