
How Email Can Change the Way Professors Teach (2011) - Tomte
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/07/composition-101-how-email-can-change-the-way-professors-teach/242468/?single_page=true
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trentmb
It always blew me away at how few of my peers would take advantage of
feedback.

Whenever a paper was assigned, I always started it that same day, finished
later in the week, and then sent it to the professor for their thoughts.

I’d address the professors concerns, follow up on their suggestions and-
surprise!-did well.

Everyone else seemed to wait until the last minute, stress out, spend the same
amount of time as me writing, just to end up with a worse grade and feedback
too late to be useful.

This wasn't limited to my English/Rhetoric courses- I've come to the
conclusion that none of my professors actually slept given how quickly and
frequently they'd respond to e-mails.

~~~
ndiscussion
From my experience in school, no one told me this was something that was
useful, expected, or even allowed.

If I could have done this, I probably would have. But no one told me of the
possibility. I'm sure many other students were even less aware than I was.

~~~
mercer
Absolutely. I think many students, after having gone through the school system
for over a decade, have a certain perspective on 'classes', 'homework',
'teachers', and so on that doesn't encourage asking questions or actively
participating in class.

For many this changes for the better over time, but then I've met plenty of
college students (and coworkers) who were _still_ stuck in that mindset.

Personally, I was lucky to only have have missed most of primary, middle- and
high school (home-schooled), so I didn't have a very established or negative
view of what 'studying' was like. But even for me it took about a year to
realize that _I_ was paying the teachers (via loan), so I better make sure to
make use of them, that teachers are just people and most of them love it when
you show initiative and inquisitiveness, and so on.

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kkylin
I teach mathematics at a university, and we have an on-line homework system
for entry-level, single-variable calculus. (How well this really works overall
is a discussion for another time). One thing that the system lets me do is see
their incorrect solutions (for each problem they usually get a few tries). For
a subject like calc 1 or 2, it is usually very easy to spot the error w/o even
seeing the intermediate steps, and to give them useful hints. But I'm not
plugged into email all the time, so this only works for students who start
early enough.

I tell the class this on the first day, and repeat. And it still surprises me
how many students who can benefit from more feedback nevertheless start last
minute. Some have legitimate reasons, sometimes: upcoming deadlines, juggling
work schedule, other classes that demand more attention. Still, suprrisingly
few students seek feedback or start early enough to benefit from it, even if
they aren't getting the grade they want.

~~~
6stringmerc
I know of a full-time community college professor who stresses there is no way
to pass the Biology course without doing the online homework modules as the
class proceeds (e.g. a component of the final grade). Also, to get the highest
grade possible in the class, successful students do the online homework
modules as the class proceeds. When it gets to a pivot point in the semester
and students start coming to ask about how to improve their grades, looking at
their status of the online homework modules is such a strong indicator of
performance it's uncanny.

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psadri
Idea for TAs and profs: build an opportunity for early feedback by requiring a
two stage submission - an early draft two weeks before the final submission.

Drawback is that it increases work load for the teaching staff.

~~~
xkcd-sucks
The same students that don't ask for feedback typically submit a final version
that's identical to the draft.

Also, they complain when you don't explicitly make their work perfect. For
example, highlighting an incorrect term in a equation leads to complaints that
you didn't write the correct term.

------
6stringmerc
As much as this article wanders, with both hits (communication between
professors & students = good!) and misses (nobody taught me how to write =
bad!), it's covering some familiar territory to me and some friends.

A buddy wrote his MA in Education thesis about how, in short, technology
assistance by way of spell check, auto correct, and social casual conversation
degrading into emojis that long-form thinking and writing are certainly
suspect for an incoming college generation. Attention span, composition, and
rote discipline are assumed to be low for incoming Freshmen as a hypothesis
(untested, though a consistent complaint it seems both by students and
faculty, re: poor writing skills).

His methodology to improve was centered around slowing down the process,
forcing attention to detail by using antiquated tools - difficult to use ones
as well. A quill, then a pencil, then a ball-point, eventually a typewriter.
The point being active, engaged thought is needed to avoid making mistakes,
and in the case of the quill, a mistake requires a full re-write (in the
course design). Quite the opposite of spitting out stream of consciousness,
right?

Other reading on the subject that might be of interest is "The Performance of
Self in Student Writing" by Thomas Newkirk[1], which I found to be an
excellent, dense consideration of the ins and outs.

But as for this quote:

> _It 's no wonder that so many students struggle with writing: you're never
> really shown how to do it. Your practice is sporadic and undirected. You're
> expected to pick it up, basically, perhaps by reading, perhaps by winging an
> essay here and there. Which is like expecting a kid to pick up tennis by
> watching lots of Wimbledon and losing in the early rounds of the occasional
> junior tournament._

No, no, no, no. This is wrong. Reading and writing have a significant feedback
loop. Practice makes better. To quote Mike Judge in character in Office Space,
"What do you think of a person who only does the bare minimum?"[2] Writing,
like playing an instrument, isn't something that just sort of falls into place
by showing up to class, or doing the bare minimum.

It also takes a lot of drive (or weird love of punishment) to get through
years and years of criticism which get thrown in by participating in the
creative process. I say this as having been in my fair share of workshops over
the years. Sometimes it's a hard go.

Also, this left a little something out:

> _Which is funny because email has such obvious promise as a tool for
> writing, and sharing writing, and teaching writing._

It's also got a lot of potential to get people fired, with Reply All and/or
sending things when in a emotional state when cooling down might be a more
prudent pathway.

[1]Link to a review PDF:
[http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/download/nwp_file/282/Performan...](http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/download/nwp_file/282/Performance_of_Self.pdf?x-r=pcfile_d)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJtrLKGZZFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJtrLKGZZFg)

~~~
e12e
> technology assistance by way of spell check, auto correct, and social casual
> conversation degrading into emojis that long-form thinking and writing are
> certainly suspect for an incoming college generation.

I thought most studies showed that immediate feedback in the form of
spellcheck and auto-correct generally helped a lot with _improving_ the
quality of writing? In general - the quicker corrective feedback is given, the
better the learning experience?

This isn't a replacement for practice of course - writing without at least
three drafts isn't really writing -- and if that's how people "practice
writing" (in college or earlier in lower level education) -- then they aren't
likely to become very good writers.

~~~
6stringmerc
Good line of thinking - I don't have anything at the ready to really refute
that reasoning other than some intuition about seeing some things before about
short term vs. long term retention. Quick fixes that don't explain the
mechanics can mask a lack of fundamental skills. Or, in more casual terms,
it's like giving an angry Chimp a razor blade.

As you note, and I completely agree with, it's practice that helps keep the
"their, there, and they're" type issues from becoming normal pitfalls. English
is tough in that regard, and often confuses people trying to learn either as
natives or ESL. I guess that's why I stress all the more knowing the rules is
important, because many make sense until they get broken in dialect haha.

