

Pro-Tesla electric car bill advances in NJ Assembly - DiabloD3
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/06/pro-tesla_bill_advances_in_nj_assembly.html

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dave1619
The bill hasn't passed yet. It was approved by the Assembly Consumer Affairs
Committee but still needs to be voted on by the legislature. According to
[http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/06/tesla-resume-sales-new-
je...](http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/06/tesla-resume-sales-new-jersey/) :

"The bill will need to pass a few more of New Jersey's legislative processes
to become law, but things are looking up for Tesla."

Poor reporting job by TechCrunch ([http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/06/tesla-
wins-back-the-right-t...](http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/06/tesla-wins-back-
the-right-to-sell-direct-to-consumers-in-new-jersey/)). They made it seem like
the bill was voted into law.

~~~
maratd
Not only has the bill not been brought to the floor, it would need to be
approved by both legislative bodies and then signed by the governor. The
probability that the dealer lobby will sit idly by and let this pass ... is
unlikely.

Regardless, you can buy a Tesla in New York, Pennsylvania, or online. If you
go to a Tesla showroom now, you'll see a huge sign that says "pay 0% sales
tax", which makes sense if you buy it online. Why would I want to pay 7% more
even if I had the option?

All of this is just bullshit, on both sides. The dealers already lost. They
lost when buying cars over the internet became a viable option.

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cpwright
The pay 0% sales tax is surprising to me. At least in New York whenever you
register a vehicle, you pay the sales tax; no matter what state you bought it
in. Even if you didn't have to pay the tax to register, my guess is that the
NJ law would be written as a sales and use tax; and you would be responsible
for it anyway. It wouldn't exactly be hard for the state to figure out who has
a Tesla with registration records, but who had neglected to pay the sales tax
and slap them with additional fines and penalties.

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lectrick
Just paid 8.25% sales tax on a Tesla in NY (Long Island). OUCH. (vs. 0% in
NJ!)

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geofffox
This seems like a 'one off' deal. Tesla can come in, zero emissions exception,
but conventional competition against the franchised dealer model is still
prohibited. This is solely because of embarrassment, but it doesn't right the
real wrong.

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bsilvereagle
If I remember correctly, a lot of deals Tesla has struck with other states are
"one off" deals just for Tesla.

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afternooner
Question for those who understand this, why can the government force a middle
man to exist in the first place? It seem to a layman to violate several other
rights.

~~~
URSpider94
Car manufacturers created the franchise system as a way to avoid them having
to carry the cost of vehicle inventories and repair facilities across the
country. Having done so, the dealerships lobbied the state legislatures to
formalize their status in law, so that they couldn't be disintermediated by
the manufacturers later.

I believe that the argument in their favor, other than blatant self-interest,
was that dealerships provide post-sales warranty service, which would
otherwise not be readily available. In some states, IIRC, the statutes are
written to say that vehicles can only be sold from a location that also offers
warranty service.

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Shivetya
If Tesla attempts to prevent independent service facilities from providing
warranty and service work then be very worried. Laws exist to give consumers
the choice for a reason.

With multiple dealers at least you can choose which one to buy from, who has
better people, better service, and better pricing. Why people want Tesla only
stores is beyond me, one choice means no choice.

~~~
Crito
It's not about wanting only Tesla stores. It's about wanting Tesla stores at
all.

If consumers really do value dealers, then dealers will continue to exist. The
reason that dealers are scared is that the dealers themselves do not believe
that they provide a valued service.

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esbranson
> _... would allow a start-up electric car maker, like Tesla, a reasonable
> period of time to ramp up operations (or sales volume) before they conform
> their business operations to the franchise model, " [president of the New
> Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers Jim Appleton] said._

> _" Should there be some kind of time limitations within the bill or are we
> setting the stage for a situation where the historic dealership model is
> going to be hurt 10, 20 years up the road?" [State Sen. Brian Rumpf
> (R-Ocean)] said._

Proof positive that the "captured agency" in regulatory capture[1] is actually
the entire government, or at least the entire Republican Party. Government
officials don't even try and hide that they're opposed to hurting established
industries. The only difference is that in the 21st Century its not a railroad
and oil company they're constantly trying to shield from competition.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture)

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Ryel
Sorry for being a bit off-topic but I'm fascinated by Elon's boldness in
claiming that hydrogen fuel-cell tech is a dead end for automakers even though
they are doubling down in it's investment.

I would love to be knowledgeable enough to have a reasonable opinion on this
topic. Could anybody recommend reading material where I could learn about some
of what Elon is doing, what automakers are doing and what the pros vs cons are
of both without getting too intimidated by the science behind it?

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afternooner
Why can the government force a middle man to exist in the first place, that
doesn't seem in line with capitalism at all?

~~~
dodders
Any form of government intervention in the markets is out of line with pure
capitalism, e.g. farm subsidies; import taxes; bailouts of the auto and
finance industries; medicare; medicaid; social security... one could make an
argument for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well.

That's not to say that the above are not reasonable policies for an advanced
western economy, just not that they could reasonably be considered purely
capitalist.

~~~
esbranson
No, there is no "purely capitalist". You confuse "laissez-faire capitalism"
with "capitalism". If what you say is true, "laissez-faire" would be a
superfluous adjective, like calling it "capitalist capitalism".

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rodandar
Can anyone explain to me why Telsa should get an exemption from the law and
not other car manufacturers? Seems to me - that everyone should have to play
by the same rules. I'm a Tesla fan, and I'm not a fan of car dealers, I just
don't understand why Tesla should get an exemption just for them? Nobody seems
to want to talk about this....thoughts out there other than: government should
support electric cars? Should GM be able to sell the volt direct, but not
other cars? Someone please explain!

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esbranson
Yes, that is what they're saying: GM be able to sell the volt direct, but not
other cars.

Every company would be treated the same ("play by the same rules"). They can
all sell zero emission vehicles direct to consumers at a maximum of four
locations in NJ.

Why does Tesla get this exemption? Because corruption is only acceptable by
the population is everyone is doing it. In this case, NJ is one of only a
handful of states that is blatantly protectionist of this established
industry.

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adventured
Is there data in the wild regarding how much less maintenance a Tesla S needs
than a comparable gas-powered luxury sedan? Logically I believe the premise,
and I know Tesla has discussed this numerous times over the years, but I
haven't come across any comprehensive studies covering this aspect since the S
went on sale.

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dang
Url changed from [http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/06/tesla-wins-back-the-
right-t...](http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/06/tesla-wins-back-the-right-to-
sell-direct-to-consumers-in-new-jersey/), which points to
[http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/06/tesla-resume-sales-new-
je...](http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/06/tesla-resume-sales-new-jersey/),
which points to this.

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DiabloD3
The original techcrunch url didnt point to engadget when I submitted it, but
thanks to the mod who changed it to the nj.gov url.

