
Why do U.S. coins seem to be in short supply? - stepstop
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/why-do-us-coins-seem-to-be-in-short-supply-coin-shortage.htm
======
GeekyBear
If the Fed would put Coinstar type machines in Post Offices without charging a
fee or taking a cut, I think they would find a lot more people who are willing
to get their coins back into circulation.

It would have to be cheaper on an ongoing basis than constantly minting coins.

Wrapping coins and exchanging them at a bank is just too tedious and time
consuming.

~~~
partiallypro
A large number of banks have coin machines inside that will take unrolled
coins and deposit them into your account for free. Coinstar unfortunately
largely targets people that don't have bank accounts.

~~~
tomschlick
Pro tip: Coinstar wont take a cut if you get it as a gift card. The times I've
used them I just opt for an Amazon Gift card or one for the local grocery
chain that I'm already going to be spending money at.

~~~
pxx
That's, uh, taking a cut, albeit a smaller one. You'll lose the cashback or
other rewards that you would've gotten for using a credit card. Gift cards can
also commonly be obtained for under face value.

~~~
bobbean
Where does Coinstar's cut come from then? Wouldn't they be giving back the
same amount you put in?

~~~
umeshunni
Giftcards are typically sold to retailers at a discount (i.e. Amazon sells
$100 gift cards for $95 or something).

------
DavidPeiffer
My mom took change into her metro area bank last week because they were giving
10% over face value for change. She got an extra $9.

Nobody keeps change as an investment, but compared to interest rates the bank
was offering on savings accounts, this was an incredible return. I'm curious
if anybody with accounts at other banks tried withdrawing change to deposit in
this bank?

~~~
PacketPaul
Yup. Father in-law had this quarter collection. For whatever reason he spent
decades collections quarters from each of the states and had well over $500
worth of quarters. None of us wanted his quarters. He was able to sell them at
3 quarters per dollar, a 25% profit!

~~~
WalterBright
That's a 33% profit. Anyhow, considering inflation, he still lost money.

~~~
rrobukef
Most hobbies cost money and have almost zero return.

------
jb775
Don't expect any help from the govt fixing this, it's a win/win from their
perspective.

No coins means more businesses forcing credit/debit use. More credit/debit use
means it's harder to hide cash transactions and therefore means more tax
revenue for the govt. As an added benefit, it creates permanent paper trails
that can be utilized when convenient.

I go out of my way to pay cash, now just need to make sure I bring enough
change.

~~~
SifJar
This argument always confuses me, as if "it makes it easier to not pay our
taxes" is a legitimate argument for using cash

~~~
quietbritishjim
Here in the UK, this practice is so common it has a name: "paying cash in
hand". Its literal meaning is just paying cash for something, but its implied
meaning is that the recipient won't declare it to the tax authority (HMRC),
and you often get a discount for paying cash in hand (so I've heard, I've
never actually been offered this myself). Of course we're talking about
individual tradesmen here, like plumbers or handimen, not big or even medium
businesses.

~~~
cameronbrown
Being paid cash in hand is usually how most teenagers get their first job too.
If govt. clamped down on this then you'd see a lot of youngsters struggling to
get onto the market, and I believe that's why they let it slide.

~~~
SifJar
I'm not sure I totally buy this argument - the logic being that teenagers are
only employed because employers can get away with paying them less due to lack
of tax. But there are already lower minimum wages for these ages, so it'd
still be cheaper than hiring older employees. Plus a lot of these jobs would
be part time, so could potentially result in an income lower than the personal
allowance (currently £12.5k) and be tax-free anyway

------
late2part
It's my opinion that the web page is a non-answer.

It's unclear to me from the page how the supply of coins is disrupted by the
pandemic. Perhaps it's because the mint is shut down, but they don't say that.

If coinage isn't an 'essential' business, that seems odd.

~~~
secondderiv
The first of the related links has the full answer

"The primary issue with coin is a dramatic deceleration of coin circulation
through the supply chain. As of April 2020, the U.S. Treasury estimates that
the total value of coin in circulation is $47.8 billion, up from $47.4 billion
as of April 2019. While there is adequate coin in the economy, the slowed pace
of circulation has meant that sufficient quantities of coin are not readily
available where needed. With establishments like retail shops, bank branches,
transit authorities and laundromats closed, the typical places where coin
enters our society have slowed or even stopped the normal circulation of coin.
The coin supply chain includes many participants, from the U.S. Mint who
produces new coin, to the Federal Reserve who distributes coin on the U.S.
Mint’s behalf, to armored carriers, banks, retailers and consumers, all of
whom have a role to play in helping to resolve this issue."

[https://frbservices.org/news/communications/063020-federal-r...](https://frbservices.org/news/communications/063020-federal-
reserve-convenes-us-coin-task-force.html)

------
vikramkr
What does a shortage of coins look like today? Difficulty paying for a parking
space or a gumball? Is it just difficulty giving change in a cash transaction?
Wouldn't stores have access to banks that arent closed to be able to give
change? What's the role that coins play today that would be noticeable?

~~~
timwilder
There’s some businesses like laundromats serving areas where many folks don’t
have washer/dryer in unit that are still coin operated. It’s a real impact for
those since people now need to go further to wash/dry or find friends or
family who will help out.

~~~
krapp
A lot of apartment complexes also have on-site laundromats that are coin
operated.

I've never understood why the cost of that isn't included in the rent,
landlords can't be taking that much of a cut from it.

~~~
sueders101
Many pay-to-use(coin or card) laundry rooms in apartment complexes are
entirely contracted out to a third party company that handles everything;
payment collection, machine leasing, service/repairs, etc. On the whole I
think it's easier for them this way.

[https://www.wash.com/360-laundry-room-
solution/](https://www.wash.com/360-laundry-room-solution/)

[https://www.coinomatic.com/multi-housing-coin-laundry-
soluti...](https://www.coinomatic.com/multi-housing-coin-laundry-solutions/)

~~~
tesseract
The small apartment building I live in is set up this way. I don't really
mind, but I wish they would find a way to accept cards (credit and/or
reloadable) rather than only coins because as it stands right now, I have to
go to the bank and get $50 worth of "laundry tokens" (quarters) every few
months, since I don't spend enough cash day-to-day to naturally collect enough
change for the laundry.

~~~
ny2ko
I just did this 2 weeks ago at a chase in SF. Usually I get $50 but I was
restricted to only $20. Didn't really this shortage was the reason

~~~
Larrikin
I complained when they would only give me twenty last week in Chicago since I
always got fifty before and was told this was the reason

------
janitor61
Is this a uniquely US issue, and if so, why? Other countries have enacted
similar lockdowns, wouldn't a coin shortage show up elsewhere given similar
circumstances?

~~~
jedberg
In Europe it is generally cheaper as a merchant to take credit vs cash,
because they have low credit processing fees. Because of this they take credit
for pretty much any transaction.

In the US, it's not uncommon to see places only take credit for purchases over
$20, especially restaurants.

~~~
robk
Have you been to Germany? Good luck with getting any cards accepted. And I
think you misuse credit for debit - in UK many online retailers only accept
debit cards and until the lockdown many mom and pops still really seemed to
hate getting out that card machine.

~~~
Symbiote
I lived in the UK for decades, and I don't recall a place that only accepted
debit cards. The fees are slightly lower for debit vs credit cards, but
they're low for both types of card.

Plenty of places in Europe don't accept AmEx, it still has high fees.

It's true that Germans prefer cash, but that's not necessarily because of the
cost of processing cards. Most supermarkets accept cards, but the average
German uses a card slightly more than once a week.

[https://www.euro-area-statistics.org/classic/payment-
statist...](https://www.euro-area-statistics.org/classic/payment-
statistics?lg=en)

------
a3n
My first thought at the headline was that as people head home to isolation,
the coins in their pockets stay home with them. Which is probably true.

But the article talks about closing businesses, and _those_ coins leaving
circulation until those processes work through.

~~~
anon73044
>[https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/07/black-
own...](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/07/black-owned-
businesses-may-not-survive-covid-19/)

The numbers are kind of all over the place depending on the source, and I'd
imagine the ~40 million people on unemployment would be holding on to hard
currency pretty tightly too.

------
AnimalMuppet
So I went to this store yesterday. The cashier asked me if I wanted to donate
the change to the Childrens' Hospital. By either brilliance or great timing,
they started doing this about the time the coin shortage started.

------
mxcrossb
Obviously the federal government should’ve paid the stimulus money in dimes

------
aazaa
It's odd how the article dances around the true problem: when push comes to
shove, there's not enough supply to go around.

On the one hand, it's a pattern that's played out over and over again this
year. Toilet Paper. Paper Towels. Meat. Canned goods. Flour. Even yeast.

On the other hand, the Fed is the sole agency in charge of US currency. It
swears up and down that there is plenty of physical currency to satisfy all
needs. And it can't deliver on the simple promise of supplying coins.

Trouble ahead.

------
wil421
For the past 4 weeks I was in North West Florida and it was almost impossible
to get coins. I went to 3 grocery stores and they all denied me. Gas stations
even had signs warning customers to use exact change. The credit unions in my
network wouldn’t give anything out either.

Thankfully Loomis dropped a bunch off at my condo’s property management
office. Most places told me they were only accepting new coins from the cash
delivery companies due to COVID.

------
irrational
Will this hasten the, presumably, eventual move to a 100% digital economy? I’d
like to see statistics on how often people use analog money. Is there
correlation by certain socio economic classes? I imagine drug dealers are 100%
analog while CEOs are 100% digital. Where does everyone in between land?

~~~
sneak
CEOs are counterparties in the drug trade, too.

Everyone uses cash for some transactions, mostly because it affords privacy.

~~~
irrational
Not everyone. I personally have not touched cash in 15 years or so. I really
haven’t had any need to. In all that time I haven’t had a single experience
where card was not accepted.

~~~
sneak
Either you live in Scandinavia, or you aren’t sufficiently tipping coat check,
valet, bellhops, delivery runners, et c.

Cash is also essential for grease/bribes.

~~~
tim58
> Cash is also essential for grease/bribes.

Am I not bribing enough people? I've never had to.

~~~
sneak
I once had a friend who was bleeding from a head wound from getting attacked
on the street. Not life threatening, but messy.

The complication was that it was 1am, new year’s day (NYE night, an hour after
midnight), on Union Square in NYC, and it was raining.

Not ideal conditions in the pre-Uber world.

Had I not had $400 in cash to flag down a limo(!) and dissuade him from his
scheduled appointment, she would have spent the next 3 hours bleeding either
on the subway or on foot as we walked back to Brooklyn.

Another time, I got stopped on the highway to the Cancun airport driving back
from Tulum. The cop kept saying something about how he would have to write me
a ticket, over and over again. Eventually it clicked, and I asked “is it okay
if I just pay the fine here?”

Sometimes, cash saves the fuckin’ day.

------
Nightshaxx
I think it might be worth it to consider what coins we use nowadays. When the
half-penny was abolished, it had more purchasing power than a dime. [1] Could
we get rid of at least the penny so there is less waste?

[1] [https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/04/04/bringing-
do...](https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/04/04/bringing-dollars-and-
cents-into-this-century/please-finally-end-the-penny)

------
endogui
Why are coins more impacted than bills? Shouldn't a slowdown in the movement
of cash throughout the economy affect both coins and bills roughly equally?

~~~
kdmccormick
My guess:

Tha article states that closure of bank premises is driving the shortage. You
can get new coins at banks. You can't get coins from ATMs or grocery store
cash-back.

------
HeavenFox
Hopefully this would prompt the U.S. to finally deprecate the penny

------
dboreham
My bank told me the reason is the feds are capacity limited on coin
decontamination. Bills they just burn and print more, but coins cost too much
to re-smelt.

~~~
mensetmanusman
Ha, b.s. you can warm coins moderately to denature the virus...

~~~
skj
you could also let them sit in a box for a few days.

------
everdrive
Any bank I've been to won't even take coins unless they're counted and
wrapped. It's hard to keep them useful.

------
marcoperaza
A quarter today is worth less than a penny in 1900. Maybe this is a good time
to get rid of all coins except maybe the quarter. It is frankly ridiculous to
be dealing with pennies, nickels, and dimes, worthless coins.

------
fourseventy
when is the last time someone used a coin to pay for something that wasn't a
coin operated machine. Just get rid of them, or make coins that are worth >=
$1

~~~
kdmccormick
Paying for parking without having to involve my phone or credit card is pretty
nice.

~~~
rags2riches
I like paying for parking with my phone. It lets me extend when the time is
about to run out and cancel the remainder when I leave early.

~~~
antsar
Does cancelling refund the extra to your card? I assumed most systems would
just eat it so I may as well leave it for the next guy.

~~~
rags2riches
Canceling refunds the extra amount to my balance. The app only charges the
balance once a month.

You can't leave it for the next guy, because it's not a parking spot that's
paid for. Instead, you pay to park a certain car in any spot in a larger
parking zone.

------
coinward
Seigniorage for coins is at or near 0. Inflation did this

------
paulie_a
Personally I see this as a good thing. The less availability means the less
usage. Hopefully this can eventually usher in an era of no coins what so ever.

------
ridaj
I feel like a smart country would take this opportunity to develop electronic,
no-fee payment wallets, not just bring up a coin task force...

~~~
8organicbits
This sounds like a problem with immediate impact which will eventually (1-2
years?) go away. Creating a new payment system, deploying it widely, getting
people to use it, all takes way longer than that time period.

~~~
ridaj
Sure. I'm not saying they should not solve the short term problem. Just that
there's a bigger opportunity.

------
d33lio
Nobody uses them.

~~~
derision
There's millions of Americans using coin operated laundry machines, and that's
just one example

~~~
jldugger
Judging from this rando laundromat youtuber I saw a few months back, that's
basically a closed circular coin economy: you put bills in the money changer,
then coins in the washers and dryers. The owner then takes the coins out of
the machines and puts them back in the money changer. In that scenario, bills
are what enter and leave the laundromat.

But in a regional coin shortage, someone with spare time might just choose to
loot the coin machine, and gum up the internal coin economy. Banks are
apparently offering an extra 5 percent on coins:
[https://www.kctv5.com/a-bank-is-paying-people-to-bring-in-
th...](https://www.kctv5.com/a-bank-is-paying-people-to-bring-in-their-spare-
change-to-help-local-businesses/article_38745cd0-582b-5e58-bece-
dce966cc5a68.html)

This does remind me of the stories a few years back about credit card churners
buying coins from the us mint in bulk for the cash back, then depositing at
the bank before the bills came due.

~~~
tallanvor
In laundromats, sure. But many smaller apartment complexes might have one or
two sets of coin operated washers and dryers. I've never seen places like that
have change machines available.

------
latchkey
The obvious solution is to make everything digital, but that impacts people
who aren't digital. Never mind the anonymity aspect.

The other solution could be to get rid of cents all together.

This is what Vietnam has done and it is fantastic not having to deal with
small metal change. Although, this created a new problem, they need to lose a
few 0's. Being a dong millionaire (largest bill is 500k) means you've got
about $45 in your pocket. Heh.

~~~
neverartful
The anonymity aspect is a huge deal.

~~~
latchkey
I wasn't discounting it being a huge deal, which is why I mentioned it. But we
don't need metal change for that when we can use 'paper' bills (airquotes
because in Vietnam they use plastic bills).

------
moomin
There’s a phenomenal amount of double-think going on in this sentence.

“While there is an adequate overall amount of coins in the economy, the slowed
pace of circulation has reduced available inventories in some areas of the
country.”

Literally the second clause contradicts the claim of the first.

~~~
zdragnar
How so? The first is speaking broadly, the second refers to specific
localities.

Some areas face a shortage because there is an oversupply in others, with a
total supply that is adequate. Were they circulating more, the concentrations
would presumably level out (or so the argument reads to me).

~~~
moomin
The economy isn’t a concept that can be separated from the rate of
circulation. If there are shortages, there aren’t enough coins. If there were
enough, the problem could be solved by booking a couple of lorries to move
them around.

