
Silicon Valley pastor decries hypocrisy of area's rich liberals - bambataa
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/22/silicon-valley-pastor-gregory-stevens-wealth-liberals
======
bluetomcat
Large SV companies have nowadays become cash-making media machines of a
gargantuan scale, acquiring that cash from all over the world for a service of
questionable value, and investing it back in a relatively small area while
providing only a few tens of thousands of jobs there. This distribution of
capital creates a huge imbalance, no matter how "liberal" the stakeholders
are.

~~~
coleifer
My sense from reading was that he was upset by what he perceived to be
hypocrisy on the part of the wealthy. In that they talked the talk about
charity and making the world better, but their actions spoke differently. So
liberal words, liberal values being expressed, but pure greed when it
mattered.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
I commute between New York and the Bay Area, and am consistently struck by how
plutocratic of a city San Francisco has become. Most social functions are held
in private venues and heavily segregated by race and class. Leaving a charity
event, a millionaire will casually step over a homeless person en route to
their apartment. They will talk about poverty in Africa and then vote in
NIMBYist politicians. A total gutting of humanity, and I’m saying this as a
New Yorker.

~~~
maxxxxx
It's a dangerous trend that people with money less and less interact with
people with less money. Private schools, super expensive neighborhoods, super
expensive gyms, bars and restaurants. These people have the power to influence
political decisions but they have no idea how most people live.

~~~
kikoreis
You have articulated brilliantly something which as a Brazilian disturbs me to
no end. I despair seeing cities change their structure to accommodate the
desire for segregation.

~~~
maxxxxx
Speaking of Brazil reminds me of a documentary about Ayrton Senna I watched
years ago. He flew his beautiful helicopter to his beautiful skyscraper in Sao
Paolo, then to his beautiful beach house and then taking out his beautiful
boat. All that with dirty, poor kids and the slums in Sao Paolo in the
background. It was a really jarring experience.

------
deweller
Pastors deal with so much frustration every day. Working with people in any
job is messy and can be very draining. In the context of a church, working
with people is significantly messier and more draining.

Pastors burn out all the time. But it is still sad to see.

If you attend a church or know a pastor, just know that they are probably
dealing with a lot of stuff you don't know about.

~~~
rectang
Apparently the pastor has had difficulty growing his congregation. I wonder
how many people there are in Palo Alto who partake in charitable activities
but not when they're affiliated with organized religion.

------
myrandomcomment
My wife and I moved out of PA / Menlo partly because of this. Shallow people,
spoiled children and the rude entitled behavior of almost everyone.

Each year at my kids school they had a gift tree with cards with things the
kids on the other side of the 101 (East PA) wanted. 99% of it was shoes. They
just wanted a shoes. Every year we would take a few cards and wait for others
to do the same. Every year at the end there where still cards on the tree and
my wife and I would take every last one. How f'ing hard is it for someone to
do this? Why the hell would there be anything left?!? I never understood that
until I realized it would take time out of their schedule to have to do this.
Sure people gave money, but god forbid they had to do any work.

------
psychometry
It's easy to resolve this discrepancy when you realize these people are not
actually liberal or progressive.

~~~
vowelless
No True Scotsman fallacy?

I personally give the respect to people to refer them as they would like to be
identified. If a Muslim jihadi says he is a jihadi, I respect his self
identification and call him that. Similarly, I respect these people's self
identification as liberal or progressive.

~~~
simonsarris
Claiming someone's actions don't line up with their words is not a no-true-
Scotsman scenario.

I think he's simply alleging that their revealed preferences do not line up
with their stated preferences.

~~~
vowelless
I think what you describe is pretty much exactly the no true Scotsman fallacy.

[Delete rest of comment, not relevant]

~~~
vertex-four
It is not fallacious to have defined criteria for membership of a group - the
fallacy is to create new criteria on a whim in response to criticism.

------
coleifer
I'm saddened that he felt compelled to resign. The Gospel advocates poverty,
whether you take that in the literal sense or whether you take it to mean
humility, I imagine the stark divide visible in SV would probably be pretty
hard to understand.

~~~
HarryHirsch
You'd rather say the Church advocates the responsible use of wealth.

~~~
coleifer
Not quite. I don't know what the church is nor can I speak about it's
motivation. I'm speaking about the gospel. Matthew 19:23 specifically:

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man
shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It's a rare thing for Jesus to make a pronouncement like that in the text.
Which leads me to believe it's an important part of his teaching.

~~~
drdeca
I think that 19:23-26 may be more clear than 23 by itself?

Also, out of curiosity, what translation is that?

~~~
otoburb
>> _Also, out of curiosity, what translation is that?_

First returned Google result in Firefox private mode[1] indicates this wording
is specific to the King James Version (KJV).

[1]
[http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/19-23.htm](http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/19-23.htm)

------
cobookman
"The city had also made it hard for the church to provide meals for the
homeless by requiring costly permits, he said."

Is that true?

~~~
dpeck
I don't know SV municipalities specifically, but I'd guess its probably true
[http://www.newsweek.com/illegal-feed-criminalizing-
homeless-...](http://www.newsweek.com/illegal-feed-criminalizing-homeless-
america-782861)

Its been enforced haphazardly in Atlanta over the last couple of years.

~~~
peterwwillis
Yep.

In Tampa, Food Not Bombs was arrested for not getting a permit for "having an
event on public land". [http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-
world/national/article1253...](http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-
world/national/article125306029.html) even though they've been feeding the
homeless there for 10 years. The real cause for the crackdown appears to be
when there's some event going on in the city, like football championships,
where visibility on the city's homeless problem could be problematic for
politicians.

In Orlando, Food Not Bombs also gets arrested for feeding the homeless.
[http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/crime/os-homeless-
feedin...](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/crime/os-homeless-feedings-
arrests-20110601-story.html)

It was illegal in Fort Lauderdale, until the police arrested a 90 year old man
for feeding the homeless. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-
nation/wp/2014/12/0...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-
nation/wp/2014/12/03/after-90-year-old-is-arrested-florida-judge-halts-law-
that-restricts-feeding-the-homeless/?utm_term=.29b78183eadc) It's probably
still illegal, though.

------
neaden
His critiques, while vulgar seem pretty fair and I hope he finds a new
position somewhere.

------
Balgair
A lot of commenters are saying that Pastor Stevens is right, and that more
should be done. I encourage all people to volunteer and to try to make our
world a better place, not just through donations, but through labor as well.
The joys and rewards of volunteering and helping others are innumerable and
ever growing; even _The Economist_ of all magazines thinks so too
[[https://www.economist.com/node/8023307](https://www.economist.com/node/8023307)].
If you see that your world is not what you want it to be, please consider
volunteering. Here are some organizations I have worked with and can vouch
for:

[http://www.bacbsa.org/contact/48588](http://www.bacbsa.org/contact/48588)

[https://www.bgcp.org/](https://www.bgcp.org/)

If you know of other organizations in need of volunteers, please reply for
others to see too.

------
cmurf
Recently I was in a late 1800's home in Denver. From the outside it doesn't
look mansion-like huge, but it was huge. It had over a dozen rooms, and long
since renovated "servant's quarters".

Hindsight isn't really 20/20, is it? I look back on that era and think how
blatantly racist and classist it was. But in contrast to today's segregation
based on race and class, all we've done is move the servants out of the homes
they serve, put them on public transit, and make them live 50 miles away. It's
just feudalism vs a kind of neo-feudalism.

And meritocracy in practice is different than meritocracy as an ideal. Perhaps
Vulcans have the extreme discipline required to actually adhere to a strict
system of merit. But humans do not. Anyone in a meritocratic environment
lowers the ladder to friends and family, people they like, which immediately
corrupts the meritocracy. Meritocracy in practice corrupts itself, the very
thing the ideal proclaims to avoid. And even the ideal version pretty much
pre-supposes that those without merit, without wealth, don't really deserve
anything other than what they have (or don't have), there isn't anything to do
about it, and it might even be immoral to intervene.

The book of Job, and numerous stories of Christ in the New Testament are very
critical of wealth and merit. And that's probably why the message doesn't go
over very well anywhere with institutional power and wealth, be it the
Pharisees, or Silicon Valley's wealthy (and regardless of whether they're
liberal or conservative).

------
mudil
This hypocritical behavior goes all the way to the top. AL Gore, for example,
routinely flies on a private jet to various functions throughout the world.
Compare this to Mahatma Gandhi who was barefoot and not in the Rolls Royce.

------
lawlessone
He's not wrong.

------
watwut
"Jesus was a homeless Jew who said it was harder for a rich man to enter the
Kingdom of Heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of a needle"

Ok, I agree, but that seem to be unusual take for American nominations. At
least my impression was that they did not tend to preach help to poor, rather
the opposite.

Did I had wrong impression or is this take really the minority one?

~~~
mattnewport
I think you have the wrong impression. Studies repeatedly find that religious
Americans give significantly more to charity than non religious Americans,
e.g. [https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-
Giv...](https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-
More/153973)

~~~
jnwatson
Sorry, if you remove donations to their own churches, the unchurched do
better.

[http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/11/28/are-...](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/11/28/are-
religious-people-really-more-generous-than-atheists-a-new-study-puts-that-
myth-to-rest/)

~~~
dragonwriter
> Sorry, if you remove donations to their own churches, the unchurched do
> better.

That result is both unsurprising and meaningless.

------
RSZC
[https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/filebank/documents/65...](https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/filebank/documents/65063)

The posts in question

~~~
forgottenpass
>Gregory Stevens has a public Twitter account. I thought some of his troubling
recent tweets should come to the attention of Palo Alto city leaders and the
residents of Palo Alto. []

>Should this type of person and the organization he represents oversee a Palo
Alto Community Center?

Haha, wow. Can you get more stereotypical Silicon Valley than running to the
nearest authority figure because you don't like someone's opinions and choice
of (not even that) strong language?

------
kraig911
Why did he resign though? Because he felt bad about he tweeted?

~~~
metalliqaz
Sounds like he was forced out, because of his "offensive" comments.

------
sctb
Previously:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17112771](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17112771).

------
m0llusk
Now gamify this so people can get quick gratification and level up and that
might actually work.

------
VikingCoder
Has anyone else read "The Golden Age" by John C. Wright?

I'm really fascinated by the idea of the College of Hortation.

I think Wright actually sees it as sinister, but I thought it was a good idea.

Rough idea:

Make all laws extremely libertarian, and then have a voluntary group people
join that does things liberals say they want (free healthcare with progressive
membership dues, etc.)

Except in his book, if you weren't a member, no one would do business with you
- because it was against the terms of membership, and almost everyone was a
member. So then those people who rejected society could, but they couldn't
trade with almost anyone.

------
jnbiche
He may have been a bit profane, but he's not wrong. Rich and upper-middle
class liberals, particularly in places like the Bay area, need to take a
serious look inward.

------
Karishma1234
People complaining about how other people should be spending their money. Huh.

~~~
almost_usual
Less about how someone spends their money and more about their ideals. These
people are fake and only value wealth. Their values are weak and mold to where
the money is. The same people would be racists or bigots a 100-150+ years ago
because they would be wealthier with those values. It's socially damaging to
be those things today and actually impedes wealth so of course they believe
they are "socially liberal".

Including blue collar workers in their community or network of friends does
not grow their wealth. They provide no benefit to these people's social worth
in their eyes so they are exiled from the community.

~~~
Karishma1234
The entire Christianity and Catholic church has been the biggest examples of
bigotry, racial, hatred and unimaginable violence. A Pastor should not engage
in this type of virtue signalling.

When you create wealth you are already helping poor people and blue collar
workers. Who do you think mows Mark Zuck's lawn ?

~~~
almost_usual
"The entire Christianity and Catholic church has been the biggest examples of
bigotry, racial, hatred and unimaginable violence."

True but why? Most of this was rooted in power and wealth. The Catholic Church
is one of the most wealthy empires ever to have existed. Why do you think they
became bigots, and racially radicalized? They wanted power, exclusiveness, and
wealth. Legitimizing servitude and slavery through religion made them
incredibly powerful.

"A Pastor should not engage in this type of virtue signalling.""

Like everything else religion is evolving, this Church is LGBT friendly. As
someone who has a gay family member who attends an LGBT church these things do
exist.

"When you create wealth you are already helping poor people and blue collar
workers. Who do you think mows Mark Zuck's lawn ?"

That's fine, as long as you pay them enough to live near where they work in a
house that isn't a shanty or ghetto. We don't need modern age indentured
servants in the United States.

I'm assuming you identify with the Republican party? My only interest is if
you identified as being "Liberal" because you definitely aren't.

------
justherefortart
While I'm not a religious person, this is a man whose convictions I can
respect.

Keep fighting the good fight Gregory, this evil atheist is on your side :-)

~~~
lawlessone
He seems like the kind of religious person i wish i seen more of in the world.

~~~
justaman
He is more common than you think.

~~~
justherefortart
I live in the Bible Belt, so not very common here.

Reminds me of "liberal" SF/Bay Area. Everyone talks the talk, but no one walks
the walk. It's quite sad really.

~~~
jnbiche
If you live near any urban area in the Bible Belt, it is more common than you
think. Granted, if you're in a small town or rural area, you're absolutely
right.

------
dapf73
People should just move out of the area and find a better for themselves.
Whining has never solved anything for anyone, and, when successful, end up in
"socialist" revolutions that turn the country into a shithole. (Venezuelan
here, and I don't like Trump, by the way)

~~~
olavk
It is the homeless people who should stop whining and move away? Or the priest
who wanted to help them?

------
kizer
Good for him. Thankfully I'll be living in placid Seattle where the kind
liberals are, surrounded by beautiful nature and a society grounded in a
cannabis induced peace.

~~~
metalliqaz
wat

------
Spooky23
The world is a little upside down at the moment.

Most of the "liberal" folks today are really old-style chamber of commerce
republicans with a different flavor of conformity. More accepting of old
social taboos, and we've replace suits with khaki.

Religion is defined in the popular consciousness as regressive right-wing fire
and brimstone types, with a helping of swarmy prosperity ministry. The success
of the political parties of polarizing folks on wedge issues like abortion is
incredible and dangerous. The catholic church I grew up in, for all its
faults, was basically the backbone of the social services sector in my region.
Now many of the holy-roller types are so aggressive about pro-life activity
they are supporting GOP candidates. That's leading to more political rally
nonsense, less service like food pantries, helping the aging & sick, etc.

