
Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions - tankenmate
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-cow-farting-1.3856202
======
the8472
Does that require the cows to be entirely fed on the seaweed or does it work
as part of a mixture?

Edit: found the paper: [https://sci-hub.ac/10.1071/AN15576](https://sci-
hub.ac/10.1071/AN15576)

According to figure 2 it looks like 2-10% of the feed is sufficient to achieve
near-total methane reduction and <5% does not negatively affect digestibility,
so 2-5% is the sweet spot.

~~~
belorn
Since this is aimed at environment efforts, I would ask how much 2-5%
reduction in feed is in acres of land dedicated to farming and usage of
pesticides. To my knowledge, seaweed farm are considered quite eco firendly,
not size constrained, and don't need pesticides.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Your knowledge is all correct (I researched leaving tech to farm seaweed).

~~~
faraggi
What were the conclusions of your research?

~~~
erichocean
Not the OP, but the typical conclusion would be "effective altruism indicates
I should stay in tech and give money to helping fisherman transition to
seaweed farming."

It's very hard to pass this analysis, since "high tech" is almost universally
more valuable to humanity, per unit, that something low tech like farming.

If you're already in tech and you want to "help the world", giving money is
almost always the best choice.

[http://www.givewell.org/](http://www.givewell.org/) is a good resource for
where to give effectively.

~~~
toomuchtodo
OP here. Your assuming I'd stay in tech to arbitrage the wage gap to give
altruistically. You discount that maybe working in tech isn't what makes me
happy (disclaimer: I like my current gig because of the people I get to work
with, but nothing is forever), farming seaweed from my 41 foot catamaran (now
depreciable as a business expense if commercially farming seaweed) might make
me happier after working in tech for 15 years, and that I'm saving up to
eventually leave the tech industry for living on a sailboat with my family.

> but the typical conclusion would be "effective altruism indicates I should
> stay in tech and give money to helping fisherman transition to seaweed
> farming."

Don't make assumptions. Life is meant to be enjoyed, and we work for a third
of our lives. Perhaps some of us don't want to do the same work for our entire
lives.

Lastly, tech isn't how I would give altruistically. I'd trade options and
futures and donate the profits. The impact would be orders of magnitude higher
than donating my hourly/salary wages.

~~~
bmelton
I'm not who you were replying to, but he wasn't necessarily making an
assumption. There is a philosophical theory named "effective altruism" which
includes tenets such as cause prioritization, cost effectiveness and
comparative wealth to (hopefully) allow the most good to be done the most
efficiently.

In amongst those tenets is the precept of comparative wealth, quoted here:

> Many effective altruists believe that, as formulated by Peter Singer, "if it
> is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby
> sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to
> do it".[18] Anyone with an income of above $52,000 PPP is in the 1% richest
> people globally.[19] Therefore, many effective altruists donate a
> significant portion of their income to highly effective charities, since
> doing so would not cause them to give up important purchases.

In short, if you're making six figures in tech, it is generally more
charitable to keep doing the tech that you're doing and donate more, and if
the tech work you're doing isn't a net negative, you'll be doing more good by
donating your tech largesse to a seaweed farmer instead.

~~~
forgotpwtomain
You assumed OP wanted to be an optimally efficient altruist - but this wasn't
suggested anywhere. If you read his above reply he explains briefly why he is
still in tech and elaborates a bit on his goals.

~~~
bmelton
The only assumption that I made was that when erichocean said something that
began with a social buzzword and ended parroting the theory that reflects the
definition of that social buzzword, that he was referring to the actual theory
defined as "effective altruism":

> effective altruism indicates I should stay in tech and give money to helping
> fisherman transition to seaweed farming

Offtopic, but since when did contextual assumption become something people
weren't supposed to do?

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TulliusCicero
There probably isn't an incentive to reduce methane emissions for farmers
right now though, right? We'd have to pass regulations mandating a reduction,
or an emissions tax or something.

~~~
amelius
> There probably isn't an incentive to reduce methane emissions for farmers
> right now though

I think we will be able to detect methane emissions on a large scale from
space sometime soon, e.g. [1]. At that point, farmers can't escape the law in
any way, and they will have an incentive to reduce emissions.

[1] [http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2016/0615/NASA-detects-
meth...](http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2016/0615/NASA-detects-methane-
leaks-from-a-satellite-in-space)

~~~
kctess5
Assuming there is a law. I think we can already detect methane well enough to
know that cows make a lot of it.

You don't want to make the law something they must "escape" from, but rather
something they can profit from by not polluting. Like tax credits.

~~~
oska
I disagree. I think we need to increasingly shift to pollution taxes because
1) physical pollution is hard to hide and 2) minimising pollution both
improves the environment and maximises industrial efficiency.

~~~
veli_joza
This new result could push things along, because it provides the solution
without lowering production. There would be less lobbying and backlash against
such measures if the industry has clear way of dealing with them.

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disordinary
This is huge news for New Zealand, one of the challenges that we face in
meeting our climate change goals is the fact that a large part of our economy
is based around agriculture, it's not as easy as replacing some coal power
plants for us because 80-90% of our energy generation is green as it is. And
it's also not easy for us to change the type of agriculture because the world
does still need food. A lot of money is being spent on solving this problem.

------
disposablezero
Lab-cultured meat is fast becoming cheaper and safer than growing subsidized
crops (and all the water, diesel fuel and fertilizer that entails) and
slaughtering an actual animal risking vCJD. Skip most of the climate change,
animal cruelty and customer risks by growing something far more ethical and
responsible.

~~~
polskibus
Cows fart methane even if they are just fed for milk. I'd rather have cow from
milk than a synthetic substitute.

~~~
user5994461
You can also have milk from plants.

~~~
vidarh
I keep trying milk substitutes. Not because I have any particular reason to
switch away from milk, but because I find milk delicious and are curious about
similar tasting drinks.

So far, the ones I've found range from awful, to quite ok to drink but nothing
like milk. For e.g. baking, the taste may matter less if they get the
consistency right.

But for drinking, I've yet to found any that I'd be willing to consider
replacements for milk, though I've found a couple that I may buy now again
because their quite different taste is a nice complement.

------
erl
The article only mentions that consuming this particular seaweed eliminates
methane. I am missing the production perspective. How much more/less
greenhouse gasses are created during production of the seaweed compared to
traditional fodder? The net total is what counts.

~~~
M_Grey
Well the seaweed itself would take up some CO2 during growth... so you have
that bonus too. I'd guess the major costs would come during transport.

~~~
mrob
Seaweed dries and rehydrates well, and like all vegetables it's mostly water,
so if it's grown somewhere where it can be sun-dried then total energy cost
for transport could be low.

~~~
jstsch
Also, seaweed is a good source of protein, which for cows tends to come from
(imported) soy or corn.

------
lucio
How relevant are cow farts in global warming? is there a percent figure? as in
cows contribute x% of gas emissions

~~~
viridian
16.5% of methane emissions, give or take. If you could further apply this to
all livestock, it's around 30%.

~~~
31reasons
Combining this with electric cars, we are looking at 50% reduction I think.

~~~
kilotaras
Cars produce CO2, not methane.

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dghughes
Hey this is my province! There is a large veterinary sciences building as part
of the university here.

It would be great for the seaweed industry here too it used to produce Irish
moss for carageenan, a thickening agent for food.

But as it is with the Irish moss it will go to Asia tropical waters produce
more seaweed.

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pvaldes
You can feed your goats 100 dollar bills and increase your goat production,
but this plan have some gaps.

What the article forgets to mention is that seaweed is a product valued in
millions of dollars. And they create fragile ecosystems also that support a
lot of juvenile fish, octopus and shellfish; wich are also expensive products.
The delicious sea urchins depend entirely of seaweeds for example. On the
other side, Asparagopsis taxiformis is an australian invasive species; so the
idea of harvest it cuts both ways. Could be good (erradicate) or a big mistake
(propagate even more).

And you need to develop a selective extracion method. If you use all seaweeds
to feed cattle, inland cows will have a fartastic life, but a lot of fishermen
living in small coastal villages with poor soils will lost their jobs.

Or maybe to synthetize the seaweed metabolites. Its life cycle is complicated.
They are two different algae packed in one single species (Asparagopsis
taxiformis and Falkenbergia hillebrandii). This is a problem if we want to
culture it. We'll need to understand the delicate interactions and chemistry
of the poisons of this plants and grant that no bad collateral effects will
appear; i.e. Kill the intestinal flora that the cattle needs. Do you want to
know another thing that could emit lots of metane? microscopic algae blooming
after macroscopic algae vanished (and maybe a bunch of dead macroscopic algae
drying at the sun?).

------
jstsch
Yeah, this discovery has serious implications on fighting climate change,
since methane emissions from cows is a large share of global co2e emissions.

Interestingly, I heard that the particular seaweed that is effective is not
commonly found in large amounts and does not grow by itself in open water.
This means it either has to be farmed using novel techniques on the sea (like
what northseafarm.com tries to do) or a new breed of seaweed has to be created
(see hortimare.com). Cool stuff.

------
abledon
Segment on Cow Farts from the latest Climate Change video by National
Geographic starring Leonardo Di Caprio:
[https://youtu.be/IxGOQDiWImA?t=49m31s](https://youtu.be/IxGOQDiWImA?t=49m31s)

------
DavidSJ
If you click on the agriculture tab, you see that cow farts account for 3% of
US greenhouse gas emissions: [https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-
greenhouse-gas-emis...](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-
gas-emissions)

------
oli5679
A good solution would be for government to offer large rebates to farmers
purchasing this as feed (ideally whilst reducing some other farming subsidy
like CAP). Farmers would have an incentive to use, there shouldn't be large
monitoring costs and should be cost effective

------
touristtam
Is this not the same story?
[http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-19/environmental-
concerns...](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-19/environmental-concerns-
cows-eating-seaweed/7946630)

------
somberi
Not just for Bovines, for humans too, Seaweed can come to rescue:

[http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/02/a-new-
leaf](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/02/a-new-leaf)

~~~
mrob
> Seaweed can be rich in protein, Vitamin B12, and trace minerals.

The USDA nutrient database lists 8 types of seaweed. Only one of these these
("Canadian Cultivated EMI-TSUNOMATA") contains B12, and it appears to be a
proprietary land-cultivated strain of Irish moss, so hardly representative of
normal seaweed. The generic Irish moss is also listed with zero B12.

~~~
ars
Plants are not able to make B12. Only bacteria and archaea are able to do
that.

So either it's a some kind of symbiosis, or they are mixing it in afterward.

------
dajohnson89
Can eating seaweed make human farts smell less offensive?

~~~
patall
Methane does not smell. To quote wikipedia:

"At room temperature and standard pressure, methane is a colorless, odorless
gas. The familiar smell of natural gas as used in homes is achieved by the
addition of an odorant, usually blends containing tert-butylthiol, as a safety
measure."

~~~
ars
The methane itself doesn't smell, but the gas carries along other compounds
that would otherwise stay put. So reducing the gas can reduce smell.

------
katzgrau
There seems to be a lot of thoughtful, educated comments here, while all I'm
thinking is: spontaneously combusting cows #southpark

------
pvaldes
That guy 'Billy Scientist' strikes again, taking all the credit for the work
of Joe Dorgan and Rob Kinley

------
m3kw9
Is methane from cows counted towards a deficit in the carbon trade?

------
banusaur
Stop eating my planet. Stop eating beef and dairy.

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EGreg
This is amazing... the beginning of ways to capture the carbon and methane
before they are released!

------
goodcanadian
Broken link. It looks like this is what you wanted:

[http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-
cow-f...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-cow-
farting-1.3856202)

------
aluhut
I wonder if the seaweed influences the taste of milk or meat.

~~~
tootie
Considering seaweed is rich in glutamates I'd wager it makes the meat tastes
really savory and umami. Pure speculation though.

------
rrggrr
But can the seaweed prevent an undersea methane hydrate apocalypse?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
That stuff has been around for a billion years; meteorites have hit the ocean
before (Yucatan for instance); no apocalypse yet?

------
heisenbit
If seaweed eliminates methane it likely will affect some gut bacteria more
than others. We would not blindly swallow antibiotics affecting what is
happening in our gut. There will be side effects one way or another - usually
the more effect the more side effect.

Seaweed is worth studying and has promise but I'm skeptical when it comes
super food claims.

~~~
the8472
If i read it correctly the paper says the effect comes through bromoform
contained in the algae, which inhibits the enzymes participating in the
methane production.

It's only fed in sub-toxic amounts to the cows I don't think it bio-
accumulates, so the meat should be safe for consumption.

in other words, it has nothing to do with antibiotics.

~~~
petra
Wouldn't it be better/cheaper just to make and feed the cows some bromoform ?

~~~
the8472
It's an ozone-depletant, so you want a natural source. And algae naturally
soak it up from sea water, so you don't have to extract it from minerals or
anything like that.

Plus I assume that it being part of the plant matters slows its release.

~~~
ars
> It's an ozone-depletant, so you want a natural source.

I read that line several times, and I can't figure out what one has to do with
the other. The depletion effect doesn't change based on the source.

> And algae naturally soak it up from sea water, so you don't have to extract
> it from minerals or anything like that.

It's made from bromine, it's not a hard element to get a hold of.

> Plus I assume that it being part of the plant matters slows its release.

Slows the release in the cow, or after leaving the cow? Because we care only
after leaving the cow, and at that point it has to have been released (in the
cow) in order to function.

~~~
the8472
The point was that many species of algae already produce and release it. Using
some of them as feed does not introduce additional emission sources, unlike
artificial production would.

Slow release in the cow might help to smooth out the dose so it inhibits
methane generation throughout the whole digestion time. But that part is
entirely speculation on my part. Something has to make this particular alga
better than the others tested.

