
Applications Open for Winter 2008 YC Funding - pg
http://ycombinator.com/w2008.html
======
maxklein
I don't think I'll be applying. Looking through my comments, I see at least 2
instances where pg has answered quite irritated towards me. The rest of my
comments are me attacking other potential founders on their poor
implementations. I'D not pick ME if I was on the team.

Anyways, let me give a few areas for potential applicants:

1\. Organize bookmark tags right. Del.icio.us is nice and all, but things tend
to get disorganised

2\. iPhone app for public transportation

3\. Firefox/IE plugin that makes financial information from bank websites
accessible in a global unified format. By financial info, I mean payin/payout
history.

4\. Debt pay-off site - site that organises the credits of people into a
manageable format and tells them what to set aside to get it done with.
Include retirement fund as a side option

6\. Collaborative website for writing episodes for TV-Shows. Will take fan
fiction to the next level. Scriptwriters will like the feedback, and obsessive
fans will pay to be part of the inner circle

7\. Religious books discussion site. Mix up the religions and abstract the
discussion

8\. And of course, the favorite of a snappy gentleman like myself - Let people
upload pictures of themselves and dress them up in latest purchasable fashion.
Find alternatives to expensive designer clothes.

As they say, ideas are cheap. Each has potential if implemented the right way.

I won't be applying, but good luck to all those who will be!

~~~
dhouston
i think they only care what you build, and if you're smart. the idea of
blacklists, or pg holding grudges, etc., is pretty silly.

they're pretty clear on this: if you make something people want (or have a
demo that shows that you will), you should be fine for the app.

------
tx
I hope my question gets answered here. In our case we're already incorporated
and the product (not a prototype) is going through the final stages of beta
testing. We are not very interested in money at this point (certainly not in
$20k) but we _are_ interested in good business contacts and very open to
suggestions and advice from more experienced folks.

I wonder if this makes any sense for us to submit an application, since there
are not 20, we're incorporated, we're not living in a dorm, we don't need $20k
and we already have the product. The only thing we'd be interested in is
well... good contacts (we're not in Bay Area) and business dev. consulting.

~~~
SwellJoe
I'll reproduce what I sent to tx via email, just in case anyone is curious
(I'm with Virtualmin, the company pg mentioned):

We really enjoyed YC. I've talked about it a bit in public, here:

[http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=234583&cid=19110535](http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=234583&cid=19110535)

And the blowback from that on YC News:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21907>

We definitely didn't care much about the $15k (in our two-founder case),
though it did nicely offset the cost of my move (I sold my 350Z at a rather
unfortunate price, and found myself spending more than twice as much on rent
as I was paying on a mortgage in Austin). And we're not college kids (we're 32
and 33). We were already selling product when we applied.

We viewed it primarily as a really good set of introductions, a good learning
experience, and the chance to bounce our product off of the folks who would in
the end be the primary users. Our actual buyers are hosting providers, but
they buy what their customers want, and everybody in YC is a hosting provider
customer, and probably a thought leader in some area of development.

We don't begrudge the 5% stake that YC holds, at all, and I think we've
already gotten our equities worth from the deal, and we continue to take
advantage of their advice. If it hasn't already been made clear by the above
bits and other stuff I've posted on YC News, anybody that goes through YC has
a really really good chance of getting funding, if they want it. Nobody who
aggressively sought funding has failed to raise it...some folks figured out
during the program that what they had was not fundable and so didn't go after
more money. Others (like us) are biding our time a bit, as we sign on bigger
customers and get ourselves into a really solid bargaining position before
seriously approaching anyone. We have lunch with them when they call us (and
they do call), but we're not asking for money yet. We'd probably take angel
money at this stage, but the VCs zeroed in on us as the only enterprise
business in the bunch, so that's who we hear from. ;-)

If nothing else, moving to the valley was probably the best thing we could
have done (Austin Ventures is great and all, and they do a lot of deals...but
there's just the one of them, versus hundreds of funding sources in the
valley...if there's any chance you'll need money, the odds of getting it are
vastly higher here), and YC forced me to make that move (my co-founder was
already in Santa Clara).

~~~
SwellJoe
Oh, yeah, we were already a Texas corporation, as well. We dissolved the TX
business, and started fresh in Delaware. The structure that YC did for us was
a lot nicer anyway. There's a lot of stuff that lawyers in Texas (at least the
lawyer I talked to) don't even think about that can be problems later on when
funding comes or when options are issued.

------
abstractbill
I may be remembering all this completely wrong, but I seem to recall yc
offering a couple of alternatives to the usual application process - that you
could apply with no idea, or you could apply with no co-founders and yc would
hook you up as an early employee of a yc-funded startup.

Am I right about those offers, and are you still making them?

~~~
blader
This is just our experience interviewing last season. We applied with two
ideas, both with prototypes. The discussion was pretty much exclusively about
the idea - how new it is, how easy it is, how interesting it is, whether or
not it's porn/music related (either category is probably not a good idea btw).

We had a good response to both our prototypes, but ultimately we were told our
idea didn't seem different enough. The impression I got from our interview was
that the idea is actually pretty important.

It kind of makes sense, since you're competing against other amazing hackers
with good ideas. It doesn't matter as much if you're good -they all were-, you
really do need a great idea to go with your team.

~~~
sethjohn
Just because they spent the whole time asking you about your idea doesn't
neccessarily mean they were mostly interested in your idea...getting someone
to talk about their prototype is probably a much better way to guage who they
are and how they think than asking "Who are you?, and how do you think?"

Of course I wasn't there, so I don't really know what happened.

~~~
blader
That's a solid point - the above was just my subjective impression.

------
js
What are our chances ? We are catering to a business software category and not
a web solution. We are developing a product that will solve business problems
and is not for general public. \- JS

~~~
pg
We've funded those.

------
npk
How advanced do prototypes have to be? For example, did loopt have a
prototype? If not, how did they demonstrate their ability in embedded systems
programming? If they did, did they bring in a hacked up cell phone?

~~~
pg
The more the better, obviously, but you don't _have_ to build anything. We
would have funded Loopt after nothing more than talking to Sam about his
plans.

I don't remember exactly how far they were along then. I think they may have
had a simple app running on phones, but with simulated location info.

------
elq
I've recently come across an interesting situation and would like to know how
it would effect my company's chance at being accepted by YC.

An investor I knew in a prior experience has expressed an interest in
investing in my new endeavor. The application FAQ lists an understandable
preference to avoid funding a company that has already incorporated.

The amount the investor suggested is sizable (enough to sustain operations for
at least 3 years even after hiring some very much needed staff/co-founders),
and since the idea is substantial the money is very appealing.

But, though the investor is an engineer, he has no affiliation with the tech
industry at large, so I'm afraid that I would be missing a great deal of
support by taking this money.

Thoughts?

~~~
pg
I don't know exactly what your situation is, but if he is not someone you owe
something to, the optimal solution would be to apply to YC first. If you're
accepted, you can invite this would-be investor to Demo Day, where he can
compete with all the other investors to fund you; if not, he's plan B.

Note that this assumes that you're not indebted to the guy in any way-- that
he is simply a source of money.

BTW, 3 years is a lot of money. It suggests to me that you're either raising
too much or (more likely) underestimating your expenses.

------
jsjenkins168
Did Winter applications start this early last year?

PG: Given the deadline is still a long ways off, is there a preference for
groups to apply early and update the application and demo along the way, or to
wait until the end to apply when things are solid? Just curious..

~~~
pg
Lately we've had a lot of people emailing us asking how to apply, so we got
the w2008 application form up. Really there's no reason not to switch to the
next cycle as soon as we pick the startups for the previous one.

One the whole it's probably better to update the application incrementally.
You'll get more attention that way; we may even suggest ideas; and we're not
likely to have time to do that if you apply the day before the deadline.

~~~
npk
_One the whole it's probably better to update the application incrementally.
You'll get more attention that way; we may even suggest ideas..._

This statement sounds like the YC team reads unsubmitted applications. Have I
misread? Anyone have hints on how to maximize the chance of getting comments
back? :)

~~~
pg
I was assuming by "apply" jsjenkins meant submit the application, since you
can resubmit as often as you want. Since we read applications online, we see
the most recently submitted version of any application we look at.

------
brett
With 50+ teams now funded I wonder how much potential competition with
existing YC companies will play a factor in acceptance. Especially given that
it's likely many YC companies will not have launched by the app deadline.

~~~
pg
I suppose it's bound to happen eventually, but so far there haven't been any
collisions. The odds are lower than you might think, because both groups would
have to be working on the same thing and good.

------
cglee
We have a VERY distributed team. Is it ok if only 1 of us move to the Bay
area?

~~~
pg
If this person is the CEO, and he/she's 1 of 2, that would be ok. If it's 1
out of 4 who's not the CEO, that's not.

------
eposts
I predict a huge increase in the number of applications this time, thanks to
all the publicity and YC success stories. Good luck to everyone!

~~~
migpwr
How many applications do you think they receive on average?

~~~
pg
We got about 430 last time, of which we ultimately funded 20.

(1 of those 20 immediately merged with a startup from a previous round, so
only 19 came to Cambridge.)

~~~
gibsonf1
Those are impressively bad odds for being accepted.

~~~
pg
They're made to look bad by how easy it is to apply. If you make a website
offering people money if they fill out a form, a lot of people will fill it
out. But the odds for a good team are not as bad as they might seem. At least
a third of the applications are egregiously broken: 13 year old founders,
people who want to "telecommute" from India, people who want us to fund their
plumbing supply store, etc...

~~~
sabhishek
People might ask you first if its ok to "telecommute" from India, before
applying. I was not aware "asking" that may put them into "egregiously broken"
category :)

~~~
mr_luc
I'm still not aware of that. Ask away. This is a far more convenient place to
ask stupid questions than, say, Startup School. (That's what I did. At the
first startup school, I asked almost every founder I could get my hands on:
"So, what would you do if you didn't have a co-founder?").

If they get your application, and it says "I am from India and can't leave",
then by their own rules that's broken, but there's no penalty for asking
stupid questions.

How you react, as you come to realize that the question you are asking is a
stupid one, probably says something relevant about a startup founder.

~~~
sabhishek
How to react is something what you got learn at the first place.Apparently you
have no idea what my reply was all about my friend.

------
Alex3917
I will not be applying a third time. Good luck to all those who do though.

------
npk
I assume, that YC prints out a stack of these applications and grades them on
paper. Have the printouts ever looked like crap because of some weird browser
thing? If so, is there any chance we could see how the application looks when
it's printed?

~~~
pg
We rate them online. The application looks the same to us when we're reading
it as it does to you while you're editing it.

------
dpapathanasiou
Has your position changed regarding single founders, or is it still a case of
single founders need not apply?

~~~
pg
That's covered in the fourth from last paragraph.

Basically, we'll bend any rule if you're a genius, but anyone, even a genius,
is more likely to succeed if they have a cofounder.

~~~
cperciva
You'll bend any rule? Does that apply to the "must move to the Bay area" rule?
(Yes, I am a genius.)

If it weren't for that rule, I'd seriously consider applying -- but if I
wanted to move to Silicon Valley, I'd work for Google.

~~~
pg
We once funded a company that didn't move. It didn't work very well. A startup
would have to be _really_ good to convince us. And if we did agree it would
hurt them, relative to what they might have done if they'd moved.

------
elq
What about co-founders who are H1B's and would face legal consequences for
quiting their company?

~~~
gms
An H1-B doesn't prevent you from switching jobs, no?

~~~
elq
it does for my potential co-founder. He's been working here for over 6 years
with no GC. apparently you can't renew your H1B after X years, only stay with
the same company.

~~~
gms
Have you consulted a lawyer about this? Sometimes it can be quite surprising
to see the solutions lawyers can cook up (with the appropriate fees of
course).

------
gibsonf1
PG: Do you prefer teams to submit not quite complete forms and then
incrementally add info as time goes by, or do you prefer a complete
application submitted and then minor updates as time goes by?

------
aantix
I am going to submit RunFatBoy for consideration. I have a complete working
app, so hopefully that will put me in a position of advantage.

~~~
migpwr
I've never applied but I'll go ahead and suggest you find a new name for
whatever it is you're building...

------
juwo
I dont think there's any point in my applying again - am likely on PG's
blacklist. :D

~~~
rms
Welcome to the club. :) You'd get an email if you were on the official
blacklist, though.

~~~
juwo
hey rms, I didnt know you were a real live snake oil salesman! :) I thought it
was just a figure of speech but apparently they do exist. heh

(Just looked at your bio: "importing and selling unique herbal substances").

------
sabhishek
I m still workin on my prototype :(, best of luck to all who are applying this
time.

~~~
brlewis
You won't have it ready by October 11?

------
naivehs
want to report a minor bug in the application form

when typing the symbol ' (as in pg's) and then pressing update, a bunch of
letter looking like "ÃÂ" appear in front of the symbol ' in the updated
version.

~~~
pg
It's not just the application form. If you type utf-8 encoded chars into any
form, you get crap out. We're actually trying to debug this right now. For the
time being use plain ascii.

(That thing that looked like ' wasn't. It was probably something you copied
and pasted, e.g. from MS Word.)

~~~
epi0Bauqu
Here's a solution that covers a bunch of charset bases if you want to move to
UTF-8:

1) Add accept_charset="UTF-8" to your form tag.

2) Add the hidden variable _charset_ with no value.

3) Add <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
right after the head tag in the html.

4) Make sure apache is serving the file in UTF-8 by default, which is usually
by accomplished by adding AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 to the relevant virtual host
configuration.

Some of this stuff is redundant, but doing the above will usually ensure the
page and form view and submit in UTF-8. To be extra sure, you can double check
the value of the _charset_ variable that gets passed.

If you are using postgres and/or perl, I can give more details on what to do
there as well.

~~~
pg
I'm not using Apache. I wrote the http server in Arc. Actually I think I know
where the bug is: in my urldecode fn. Fix coming soon I hope. But not today: I
have to cook dinner for the startups.

------
sharpshoot
Very nice. The time has come for that app :)

