

Work vs. Value - drusenko
http://david.weebly.com/1/post/2007/08/work-vs-value.html

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damon
To me it seems the post wants to be titled "Work vs. Ability".

I remember in high school (and perhaps college, but that was a blur) some
classes gave "attendance points". That always bothered me.

If the class itself had value, attending class would naturally produce, on
average, better test scores. If classes don't add value, anyone with sincere
interest in the subject could pull more value out of reading books and reading
code than sitting through lecture.

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brlewis
This reminds me of the "Working Harder" section of pg's essay:

<http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html>

Working harder does mean something, but only in the context of delivering
value.

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staunch
The objective of school is for students to gain knowledge and grow their
minds. It's not to see how much value you can produce. Everyone maxes their
brain out at a certain point, the goal is to get everyone maxed out so they
have to get smarter. Feynman's teacher gave him a college level book just so
in his boredom he wouldn't distract the rest of the class.

Most schools suck at handling people who are different than average. Thanks to
the internet it's easier than ever to learn by yourself. It's an autodidact
revolution!

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drusenko
Value in the case of school meant how well you mastered the course objectives:
that's how much value you produce in a class (so I think we agree there).
Learning more is preferable to learning less, but it depends on what the
opportunity cost is. It's entirely possible that you have learned enough in
that area, and time spent learning in a different area would be better
invested.

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staunch
There's at least two aspects to learning: depth and pace. Most schools don't
let you go much deeper or faster than the class average. An optimal teaching
environment would move both of the goal posts ahead of you, so you're never
being artificially slowed down. This is exactly why learning by yourself works
so well. It's like running by yourself. You can go however far and however
fast you want.

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adamdoupe
While I agree with your points, I don't this the running metaphor is
appropriate. If you run with someone, you have a natural tendency to compete,
thus you are less likely to slack off.

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staunch
I'm sure the metaphor isn't perfect, but I don't think the competition thing
is a problem. Academic competition is a huge motivator for a lot of people
too. Being first in your class, getting accepted to a good school, etc. There
are definitely pros and cons to doing things alone vs a group.

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johnrob
I think teacher recommendations follow a similar trap. Which people get the
best rec letters? The ones who ask for help all the time (and get lots of face
time). If you understand the material, what are you supposed to do - waste the
teacher's time by asking questions you can answer yourself?

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adamdoupe
I find that I can get good recommendations by asking intelligent questions.
Also, it never hurts to visit a professor in office hours to discuss an aspect
of the class. It doesn't have to be a question of understanding, but if you
show interest in the class, the professor will notice. At least this has been
my experience.

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byrneseyeview
See also: <http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-20n1-1.html>

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rokhayakebe
The issue is that individuals are forced (by family, school or the system) to
work at things they do not enjoy, therefore the value they produce is not
proportional to the amount of energy spent THINKing or DOing. The main cause
of all these problems is the system. 95% of people are brainwashed and asked
to follow a path that someone else designed. It is not always a bad thing to
follow another path, but at least know who the heck designed it. The
consequences are people make money and are not happy, people go to work and
count down the hours before they can live. To them work is going from 9 to 5 (
or any schedule) instead of accomplishing "step n today". Now most of those
95% won't get it. If they did, forums like this one would not exist. Sometimes
the beauty of life lies in " some of us not getting IT" (where IT could be
anything).

