
A Step Forward in Parental Leave at Etsy - dmnd
https://blog.etsy.com/news/2016/strong-families-strong-business-a-step-forward-in-parental-leave-at-etsy/
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alexandrerond
It is great news to see some companies taking small steps towards what is
considered normal in the rest of developed world, but it's actually very sad
that in America it's the corporations who are taking the role of defending
citizens rights, but only selectively.

Etsy defends the right to maternal leave, Apple defends the right to privacy
and so on, but at the same time, it is the relation between corporate power
and political power that has made the US move forward so little in social
rights.

Free health, education, maternal leave, striking... This should be rights, not
company privileges. Congrats to Etsy employees, and condolences to everyone
else.

~~~
forgetsusername
> _it 's actually very sad that in America it's the corporations who are
> taking the role of defending citizens rights_

Why is that sad? It's precisely how it should work. Corporations have the
power, money, organization and man-power to push a progressive agenda. It's
just a collection of people afterall, not some nebulous, evil entity.

~~~
joepvd
In the countries I have been living, paternal leave is a right that comes with
having a job and getting a kid. It is not a perk that some noble businesses
might choose to provide.

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olderthanilook
It's really wonderful to see companies looking after their employees like this
and taking steps to reduce gender bias, and to improve inclusivity when it
comes to benefits.

As an individual who is not likely to ever have children however, I would feel
rather jealous of my co-workers who got to take advantage of this benefit.
Some sort of clause like: "... when they become a parent ... or when they work
for the company for five years without becoming a parent." would help me feel
included.

I really don't mean to diminish this awesome perk, it is obviously much more
inclusive than the status-quo and I commend Etsy for implementing it!

~~~
jkot
Compare it to sick leave: _I am healthy person, but I feel jealous of people
who are sick and take extended leave . I would feel more included if healthy
people could also take sick leave.._

~~~
pixelmonkey
What a bizarre comparison. People do not choose to become sick -- at least not
usually!

One would hope that in a modern society, most people choose to have children,
although it is true that sometimes becoming a parent can happen outside the
realm of choice. Even then, though, the comparison falls down, as extended
leave due to sickness is usually covered by disability insurance rather than
by employers. Company policies cannot possibly cover every life circumstance
but one hopes that over time companies who value their employees offer (fair)
policies that make work a little more compatible with the common circumstances
of life that tend to be out of the control of employees.

~~~
jkot
Why bizarre? It is not like one can choose when wife has complications after
pregnancy, kid gets sick or suspended from school. One can not choose to
"pause" parentship.

~~~
pixelmonkey
But nothing you list there is a reason for parental leave. The concept of
parental leave is to spend time taking care of a new child while adjusting to
the changes of parenthood.

Companies could choose to have "puppy leave" for when employees choose to
adopt newborn puppies. Choosing to have a dog (or not) and choosing to have a
child (or not) are life choices about time and money investments in taking
care of another being, and in the right circumstances they are _choices_! I
imagine a company with a puppy leave policy (however absurd on the surface)
would cause jealousy in coworkers who choose to have children, instead. And,
rightfully so!

One can not "pause" parentship, it is true. But one can and should choose
parentship in most circumstances, and one should not expect an employer to
provide special relief from all its obligations, financial/time/otherwise.
Employers should instead provide adequate comp and leave to all its employees,
regardless of their life choices.

It is ultimately about fairness and a rule that says employees deserve what
they earn and don't get unreasonably special treatment for choices that are,
frankly, none of the company's business.

~~~
jkot
What would be a valid reason for parental leave, if not sick children or sick
partner? And why is parental leave at Etsy spreaded over 2 years (some
companies have even 7 years).

Children is not a puppy.

And some companies have dog friendly policy. There is also a leave for
weddings, funerals, menstruation... It is another perk offered by company to
its employees. I dont play ping-pong or dring free soda, should I be offended
if company does offer that?

~~~
pixelmonkey
I think there's a straightforward difference between a fringe office perk of
marginal value (like free soda) and a form of direct compensation (like paid
time off, options, and salary), and I think it's important for employers to
distribute the latter based on fitness for job, market rates, and employee
value, rather than on arbitrary life choices -- at least wherever possible.

~~~
jkot
Having children is not arbitrary choice, but normal behaviour. 40% to 60%
pregnancies are unplanned. And heterosexual men have no control over this
except abstinence, thin piece of latex or tied tubes.

Not having children is arbitrary choice. One has to suppress natural instincts
and put lot of effort into contraception.

Etsy is on free market, and it does its best to atract employees. Some choose
parental leave, because it means they will not have to quit their jobs in few
years. Some others will choose different company with more money.

Plus this is great way to increase diversity and attract more women. People do
not care about bullshit like microagressions, but parental leave is a strong
factor.

And finally 6 months parental paid leave might sounds extraordinary, but it is
not unusual in other countries. Even Czech Republic has 28 weeks paid and 3
years unpaid leave.

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tonyarkles
This is a great step!

As a contrast, in Canada maternity/parental leave is baked in to every job.
See
[http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/reports/ei/maternity_parental.page#...](http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/reports/ei/maternity_parental.page#h2.1-h3.1)
It's not perfect (there's a cap on how much money it will pay), but it's
universal. There's 35 weeks, and it can be divided between mother and father
however the family sees fit.

~~~
hias
It is similiar in Germany :-)

I am shocked that there isn't a nationwide policy for this in the US :-(

~~~
disillusioned
One of only two countries in the world with no paid maternity leave! Thanks,
corporate lobbyists!

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sudhirj
They're giving all parents half a year off, paid, gender blind and
circumstance blind.

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xenadu02
Congrats to Etsy. Last year at PlanGrid we adopted 12-week paid leave with the
same gender-blind policy that applies in the case of adoptions, etc.

I wish I had worked here when my little ones were born. My employer at the
time (a multi-national software company in the bay area) offered leave in CA
but those living elsewhere got nothing besides FMLA (meaning only women and
only six paid weeks, along with burning all vacation time). Being the dad I
got nothing.

~~~
disillusioned
To clarify, FMLA doesn't even cover six paid weeks. It covers twelve UNPAID
weeks wherein the law guarantees your job, if you're working at a company > 50
employees. That's it. The six paid weeks was a component of a short term
disability policy your company carried for your employees, and NOT part of
FMLA or part of any federal requirement. US requires no paid leave at all.

------
jkot
It is great to see parental leave includes men. I quit my last job (and
started my own business) because I needed extended parental leave.

------
the_ancient
Unpopular Opinion but I feel the need to speak up for the millions of adults
that either by choice or biology do not, and will not have children

A Step forward in Parental Leave, a Step backwards for equality... Equality is
treating everyone the same.. Giving one group 26 weeks paid leave for their
life choice (having kids) while not giving the same 26 weeks paid leave to
their childless employees is unequal treatment...

I have never understood why I, a person that has chosen not to have children,
should have to work harder, longer, for the same money has people that choose
to have children

A business hires you do to a job, if your life choices interfere with your
ability to do your job you should not be rewarded with time off.

~~~
adrianN
Because our society values children and wants to encourage you to have some.
For the same reason some of your taxes go to schools and, at least here in
Germany, pay for child benefits.

~~~
collyw
The world is already overpopulated. My personal belief is that we shouldn't be
encouraging people to have children.

~~~
adrianN
That is my personal belief as well. But politicians disagree and you also
don't see people voted out of office for providing free daycare.

~~~
the_ancient
in the US you would, you would likely not get elected at all if you ran on a
"Free Daycare" policy unless you could somehow pay for that free care with out
using any tax money

~~~
hias
Why? I don't get it. Facilities like these (and health care, care for the
old/jobless) benefit our society, why shouldn't you pay for them with tax
money?

What else should tax money be used for then? Why is the US thinking that way?

~~~
the_ancient
Why do you believe the government should provide Childcare, Healthcare,
Eldercare, etc

Where do you draw the line? Why should the government no care for me in my
20's or 30's or 40's

Should I get free food, free shelter, free TV's, Free iPhones?

I do not believe the government should provide anything to anyone. Nor do I
believe I should be taxed simply because I am alive.

>Why is the US thinking that way?

A Culture of Rugged Individualism, combines with rightful distrust of the
government

Statism has killed more people than any other form of government ever devised
by humans. While causing untold suffering.

~~~
hias
Well it is like that in Germany, and it worked the last few decades. Homeless
people get free food and free shelter.

If the government should not provide anything, why should there be a
government? You get taxed because the government provides something for you
and the provided services need to get paid. I doubt you want to live in total
anarchy without police, firemen or a working sewerage for example.

~~~
the_ancient
>why should there be a government?

Why indeed...

>You get taxed because the government provides something for you and the
provided services need to get paid.

To the extent I want or need those services I will be happy to pay for them
individually like I do anything else. If the services government provides me
are desired than I should be free to choose to pay for them and if I do not
then I would not be able to take advantage of said services.

>I doubt you want to live in total anarchy without police, firemen or a
working sewerage for example.

My Fire dept is all Volunteer funded by donations from the community, it gets
very little to no tax money. I believe taxes may have paid for the fire truck,
but that money could have been raised with out taxes.

I have a septic tank, no government sewer service, but even if I did every
city near me has private run water and sewer services that are paid for by the
people connected to them not by tax dollars

Police is the only service on your list that is actually paid for by tax
dollars, that makes up about .000000000000000000000000000001% of my tax bill,
if the police want to send me a bill for their service I will be happy to pay
it directly and not have the rest of the government burden.

