
Iranian MIT student goes home over break, denied return for spring semester - obi1kenobi
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/bring-niki-mossafer-rahmati-current-mit-student-iran-back-us
======
intro-b
How this is happening, the exact trajectory of _how much worse_ these things
are (and its potential to worsen) is somewhat terrifying, especially when you
consider the cavalier disregard and easy ignorance that this policy
represents. I know classmates and colleagues and friends who are discussing,
in their groups and communities, how to best help people stranded, whether or
not vacations and returns to see ill family members must be postponed or
canceled, and how future plans to stay, live, and work in the U.S., or abroad,
must be changed.

-

While it's been easy to think about many possible negative outcomes in the
proceeding days, weeks, months, another subtle aspect of this policy's
ramifications is how it weakens trust and faith in the concept of stability
for future American policy — the likelihood of future government actions,
executed with little to no foresight, warning, or serious consideration, with
serious consequences. How this effects this country's current reputation as a
place to study, travel, find work, and start families + settle down can't be
understated.

~~~
klenwell
> executed with little to no foresight, warning, or serious consideration,
> with serious consequences

I think it is easy to underestimate the ugliness and disorder such a reckless
executive order can unleash unless you start to think about the details or put
yourself in the shoes of the people affected.

NBC News reports[0]:

 _The Trump administration also has yet to issue guidance to airports and
airlines on how to implement the executive order. "Nobody has any idea what is
going on," a senior Homeland Security official told NBC News._

As James Gleick put it on Twitter[1]:

 _And how was it communicated to Customs and Border Protection? Or have they
just gone rogue?_

And then there is the gross conflict-of-interest reflected in this map:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-
ba...](https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ban-conflict-
of-interest/)

The event marks a horrible landmark. It's the first time I can point to the
tangible harmful impact of Trump's executive policy on actual people. Up to
this point, it has been possible for supporters and apologists to waive away
his vague or careless remarks during the campaign as political rhetoric,
jokes, or leverage for future negotiation. Now we start to see the mean (in
every sense of the word) instinct that informed them and the harm they can do.

[0] [http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-travel-
restrictions-...](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-travel-restrictions-
leave-refugees-stranded-reports-n713591)

[1]
[https://twitter.com/JamesGleick/status/825380079526146048](https://twitter.com/JamesGleick/status/825380079526146048)

~~~
WildUtah
_Up to this point, it has been possible for supporters and apologists to waive
away his vague or careless remarks during the campaign as political rhetoric,
jokes, or leverage for future negotiation. Now we start to see the mean (in
every sense of the word) instinct that informed them and the harm they can
do._

If you poll this issue, you'll find at least 80% of Americans don't care how
inconvenient our immigration policy is for those countries affected. And a
very large majority wants no immigration whatsoever from any of those nations
affected nor from any of their neighbors save Israel. Probably a majority of
Hillary voters would approve if they could be reassured it would go no further
than that.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
>And a very large majority wants no immigration whatsoever from any of those
nations affected nor from any of their neighbors save Israel.

American immigration policy towards Israelis is essentially the same as
towards anyone else. My (Jewish Israeli) coworker from grad-school wanted to
work for Google in Mountain View, but the company couldn't swing him a visa.
He stayed at Technion to do a PhD.

He now says that he doesn't want to come to the USA with Trump in power.

You tell me how a Jewish Israeli computer scientist poses a threat to the
United States. And if you think you can, be aware that _I 'm_ such a person,
on top of being American, so you had better explain to me how I'm a foreign
threat to my own home country.

~~~
nerfhammer
If you're one the best and brightest abroad, why would you trust staking a
future in this country anymore? Even if what we're seeing now recedes and
fades. Huge damage to our future of this country, beyond just the
"temporary"-so-far order.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
I agree, and that's what I have to say to my former (I graduated) coworker.
I'm very much inclined to pack bags, ship my possessions, and leave this
country myself. If this is how this government behaves _one week in_ ,
violating human rights and the Constitution _already_ , what can I expect as a
minority who was born here?

And what about the people I know without second passports? Should a certain
friend refuse to visit China with her parents because Trump might decide to
ban her ( _with an American passport!_ ) from returning home over some spat
about trade policy?

The Department of Homeland Security should have refused this order.

~~~
WildUtah
A patriotic American can simply renounce a foreign passport.

~~~
sveme
Some countries do not allow renunciation of their passports.

------
jasonjei
What's scary is the new immigration ban affects legal, permanent residents. US
legal, permanent residents that have firmly rooted their lives in the US, only
to be told they can't come home.

~~~
powertower
Overall, I don't see this as such a bad thing... But every major decision is
going to have its outliers.

This is a temp 90-day ban on non-reciprocating countries (and countries of
concern), which the FBI said they are not able to properly vet (because those
countries will not provide background info on the applicant, and some other
reasons). It only affects non-citizens such as visitors, students, or
employment visas holders - from leaving the country and coming back, and there
seems to be a waiver process to help them.

They already have something like a 7 month backlog of applicants to process.
90 days is going to give them a chance to catch up and look for ways to
improve the situation... Such as getting the "Implementing Uniform Screening
Standards for All Immigration Programs" part of the order up and running.

~~~
denzil_correa
> This is a temp 90-day ban on non-reciprocating countries (and countries of
> concern), which the FBI said they are not able to properly vet (because
> those countries will not provide background info on the applicant, and some
> other reasons). It only affects non-citizens.

The EO affects ALL legal immigrants from these countries like H1B visa holders
and Green Card holders too.

~~~
etimberg
Looks like it also affects dual citizens of those countries as well. per
[http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-
canada-38783512](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38783512)

~~~
WildUtah
I doubt it will affect anyone with a US passport at the border, but it's about
time for the USA to adopt the Japanese policy and simply ban all dual
citizenship. If you hold a foreign passport or any kind of documents from a
foreign country for its citizens, your US citizenship should be revoked and
you should be deported.

~~~
enraged_camel
Why?

~~~
WildUtah
You can be a loyal citizen to only one country. Maintaining two passports is
an open declaration of disloyalty and lack of solidarity.

And immigrants shouldn't get special privileges that natural citizens cannot,
especially special privileges conferred by foreign princes and potentates.

~~~
enraged_camel
There are many countries that don't require a pledge of allegiance for
citizenship, so you can't really argue that being a citizen of those countries
constitutes a conflict of interest with US citizenship.

Being a citizen of a country typically means that you have certain rights and
privileges in that country that non-citizens don't. That's about it. "Loyalty"
doesn't enter the picture unless one is a hardcore nationalist.

------
ImTalking
It's so easy to see the outcome of these policies. Intolerance begats
intolerance begats violence. There can be no other outcome other than an
increase in violence, both domestic and international. And what will Trump do
when the violence increases? He will whip the masses up with frenzied speeches
and double-down on the executive orders to limit immigration. But the violence
will not abate but will worsen. So finally, he will institute orders to deal
with the violence, not the immigration orders that are the cause, but the
violence. Protests will be banned, people will be put in prison, violence will
be quashed by even more violent means, and they'll need to clothe these
violence-quashers and will decide that brown shirts are the appropriate
colour.

~~~
myowncrapulence

      Protests will be banned, people will be put in prison, violence will be quashed by even more violent means
    

"Our country needs more law enforcement, more community engagement, and more
effective policing. Our job is not to make life more comfortable for the
rioter, the looter, or the violent disrupter. Our job is to make life more
comfortable for parents who want their kids to be able to walk the streets
safely."

\- whitehouse.gov

~~~
egopulsus
what's your point? nowhere does that statement mention peaceful, legal,
protesting. Rioting, looting, and acts of violence are all illegal.

------
tyfon
A friendly reminder from over the pond (that is Europe).

[https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392](https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392)

You need to speak up now, or one does not know where this will end.

~~~
e1g
> "First they came for the Socialists..."

Yep, and we are already all the way up to "arresting 6 journalists covering
public protests against the unpopular ruler"

~~~
trendia
My understanding of that event is that protestors were starting fires and the
police arrested 230 people near the incident. Of those 6 were journalists. I
think that's somewhat different than police targeting journalists for their
viewpoints, of which I don't see evidence.

~~~
e1g
You're right we are early into that event. It's still not clear how the arrest
played out: (a) they were grabbed along with "rioters" and later turned out to
be journalists on the side or (b) they were with media badges and video
cameras clearly covering the riots on the ground, then _still_ arrested as a
sign of force. Sadly journalists get arrested relatively often, but it's
important to insist that medics should be aimed at as rarely as possible,
despite the heat of the moment.

~~~
egopulsus
um aren't you missing "or c) they were actively rioting along with hundreds of
others"?

------
Thriptic
Researchers in our lab at MIT are also under pressure. One cannot return home
for fear of losing his visa and the other is potentially stuck abroad.

------
crispinb
The unfortunate fact is no-one who matters cares about this.

Who matters? Not the US public: von Clownstick & co know it will be forgetten
in a month or three, and by the next election (if there is another election)
enough red meat can be thrown to the know-nothing base to "win" again.

Who matters: other wealthy nation governments. That's it. And none of them,
however loudly they profess civilised values, will risk a hair on their
precious bankers' heads to protect distant low-status nonwhite humans. That's
a plain fact.

We all know what ought to happen: civilised nations should band together and
just say no to America. An escalating series of sanctions, starting with
trade, going via targeted military cooperation downgrades, and ending with
cancelling all visas to US citizens. Some nations have strong leverage over
America, eg. Australia threatening access to Pine Gap would make the US
tremble.

None of this can or will happen, and we will plunge into the abyss. WWI and II
were prequels. RIP homo sapiens. You will be little missed by our once-
glorious planet's other sentient beings.

~~~
rainhacker
> by the next election (if there is another election) enough red meat can be
> thrown to the know-nothing base to "win" again.

I think this is a very important point and pose a threat to democracy. I
submitted a new word addition request in Merriam Webster's open dictionary and
Oxford: demagogocracy - government by the demagogues

------
cpcat
It's really hypocritical that you only start noticing this happening now. The
same has happened under Obama. I have a friend who was denied going back to
University of Chicago last year
[https://www.facebook.com/ridakoon/posts/10158098402210427?pn...](https://www.facebook.com/ridakoon/posts/10158098402210427?pnref=story)

~~~
mikeash
Individual injustices are not new. Wholesale bans of everyone from certain
countries are. Both are bad, both deserve to be fought, but they are on
completely different levels.

~~~
erichocean
> _Wholesale bans of everyone from certain countries are._

The actual 120 day ban is bad enough, there's no reason to lie about it.
People with green cards/existing visas need to be re-approved, they're not
"banned". There's no intention AFAICT to keep people who _should_ be in the US
out of the US.

FFS people, Trump needs _actual_ opposition, not knee-jerk virtue signaling,
hyperbole, and hashtag protests!

~~~
justin66
> People with green cards/existing visas need to be re-approved, they're not
> "banned".

A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order, and it sounds like the
administration is backpedaling as well, but it's important to note that in the
mean time some people with a (previously) legal right to enter the US were
turned away because of Trump's recent executive order.

[https://www.propublica.org/article/cleveland-clinic-
doctor-f...](https://www.propublica.org/article/cleveland-clinic-doctor-
forced-to-leave-country-after-trump-order)

I guess the tl;dr for that article is “She’s not going to be able to get a
visa for at least 90 days”

Careers are sometimes fragile and international flights are expensive. It's
not as if none of this idiocy matters.

> FFS people, Trump needs actual opposition, not knee-jerk virtue signaling,
> hyperbole, and hashtag protests!

This is a deeply stupid comment.

~~~
erichocean
> _This is a deeply stupid comment._

The _only_ opposition yesterday worth anything was the ACLU lawsuit, and it
was the only thing that actually made any concrete difference in the lives of
the people affected.

The rest was just people engaging in fantasy politics in the streets, who got
what _they_ wanted by _appearing to care_ in front of their peers—without
actually changing, literally, anything at all but their own perception of
themselves.

Everything beyond the ACLU lawsuit was either pointless virtue signaling or
flat out lies (c.f. #MuslimBan hashtag). But sure, carry on protesting and
virtue signaling, we all enjoy Trump running roughshod over the US while
idiots live out their fantasy of political action and #Resistance on HN and
Twitter.

~~~
mikeash
So, when we complain about stuff on the internet, it's pointless virtue
signaling. When _you_ complain about stuff on the internet, it's.... what? Are
you just virtue signaling to _your_ group, here?

~~~
erichocean
I'm talking to people, like yourself, who are normaly sober and rational on HN
(and presumably, other places—I like your Objective-C articles, for instance).

It's weird, Trump really has a lot of people "off their game" as it were, and
it saddens me because the guy's kind of an idiot. I'd like to see people I
respect get their shit together and mount and effective opposition.

Short of talking to them (like I'm doing here), I'm not really sure what else
you would expect me to do given my goals.

I am personally not politically active, I don't blog, tweet, or any of that
stuff. I rarely even comment on HN.

So yeah: I just want to see the middle/left mount effective opposition. If you
don't value my comments, ignore them. :)

~~~
mikeash
Could you explain how I'm _not_ being sober and rational here, preferably
without using the word "lie" (I'm not intending to deceive, so I am at worst
mistaken) or the phrase "virtue signaling" (which is basically a slightly more
polite way to say "fuck you" and is not productive)?

What else would I expect you to do? I'd expect you to stop complaining about
imaginary slights and insulting people for talking about things that they
dislike.

What do _you_ think _I_ should do? You haven't given me any suggestions, just
virtually shouted at me for being such a lying asshole. So I should... what?
You said the ACLU mounted the only effective opposition, maybe I should donate
to them? Well, I did already. Hmm, if I were virtue signaling, wouldn't I put
that front and center on everything I write? Hey everybody, look at how
virtuous I am, I donated to the ACLU!

~~~
erichocean
Sorry, my timeout kicked in and I couldn't reply quickly.

I apologize if my comments seem overly directed at you personally; that was
not my intent and I should have made a top-level comment. You're a good guy
and perhaps I've misunderstood how effective your approach will be over time.

Best, Erich

------
finid
When I was in grad school, most of the grad students in virtually all the
science and engineering depts were foreign students.

And what most people don't realize is that without grad students, most
research will be severely impacted. So if this continues at the rate it's
going, we begin to lose foreign grad students to other countries.

I hope this ends well, but I have my doubts.

~~~
closeparen
>And what most people don't realize

Of course they realize it. White nationalism is building its own epistemology
- we already have alternative facts, and soon we will have "American science"
[0]. Eviscerating the liberal/globalist scientific/academic community isn't
some sad unintended side effect, it's the _core_ of what an electoral majority
of this country believes with all its heart we should be doing with gusto.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik)

------
hackuser
Let's remember that most people affected have far fewer resources and
opportunity than an MIT student; most people's predicaments will not be on
HN's front page or a Whitehouse.gov petition.

------
obi1kenobi
Please also remember to sign the petition, in addition to discussing it in the
comments! 100k signatures is a lot, but not for HackerNews ;)

~~~
Buge
Is the site broken or delayed or something? There was 1 signature, I signed it
(and verified my email) and it still says there is 1 signature.

~~~
obi1kenobi
The petition just got created under an hour ago, and the signature counter
probably doesn't update in real time.

~~~
varikin
It is still at 1 signature.

------
lazyant
Proud to be Canadian, see our PM's latest tweets
[https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/825438460265762816](https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/825438460265762816)

~~~
camus2
> Proud to be Canadian,

I thought excessive chauvinism is what led to Trump at first place?

~~~
cpncrunch
>I thought excessive chauvinism is what led to Trump at first place?

I have no idea how you equate him saying "Canadians will welcome you" with
chauvanism. And if you're referring to Justin getting his shirt off, that
isn't what chauvanism means. (He is actually the exact opposite of the
definition of chauvanism).

~~~
camus2
> him saying "Canadians will welcome you"

He didn't say that, I quoted what he said. There is no need to be proud of
anything, like a nationality would make someone "more virtuous" and people
from other nationalities would be defacto "less virtuous". That's chauvinism.

~~~
cpncrunch
>He didn't say that, I quoted what he said.

I was quoting what Justin said. I see you were talking about the OP instead.

>like a nationality would make someone "more virtuous" and people from other
nationalities would be defacto "less virtuous"

Being part of a nation that welcomes people seems a good reason to be proud.

------
Svip
Does the White House Petition website still work? I mean, I am surprised it is
still up. Surely the new administration would A) not pay attention to it and
B) simply scrap it to avoid maintaining it.

As far as I understand, there is no legal requirement for the White House to
even entertain the petitions.[1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_the_People_(petitioning_sys...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_the_People_\(petitioning_system\))

~~~
noobermin
It was an effort (at times, half hearted), at transparency by Obama, it has no
legal weight, no. Do we have hope it will even be considered by Trump
considering how they aren't even taking calls? No.

------
kevinburke
Foreign students nearly always pay full tuition at US universities and help
keep them afloat. Making the US undesirable for immigrants is going to make it
harder for US colleges and universities to offer a great education.

~~~
akiselev
Not just universities either. After the 2008 recession many private schools
started to aggressively court international students, charging them as much as
2-3x base tuition plus room and board. 3 out of the 7 Catholic private schools
in my area depend largely on a small group of Chinese students to be able to
offer affordable tuitions to low income students. For every international
student they lose, they'll lose 5-10 local students because their families
can't afford the unsubsidized tuition and the schools will enter into a death
spiral. This will happen while at the same time the Department of Education is
slowly dismantled and opponents of public education cripple and profiteer off
its privatization.

The far reaching and long term consequences the US will experience from this
executive order are staggering.

------
moinnadeem
Undergrad at MIT here, thanks for signing! Our community has been fairly
troubled by this to say the least, and your outpour of support is incredibly
helpful.

------
chrisper
This is another reason why I decided to move back to Europe after I am done
studying than trying to work on H1B. I just really do not need the stress of
having to worry if I'll be kicked out overnight or not. I would probably be
fine, as I am not a Muslim, but still. No thanks. Trump could make "America
great again" any minute and just decide to kick out any non-American.

~~~
WildUtah
Excellent. America shouldn't take any immigrants that just want to exploit our
resources or wealth. Only those who believe in America and love the people and
our land so much they would take all the risks of coming because no
alternative is good enough should immigrate here.

I wish you the best of good fortune in everything back home.

~~~
jmorphy88
Correct. America is not a giant shopping mall for the world, it's a country.
"Love it or leave it" is an entirely appropriate and necessary statement.

------
suprgeek
This is the time to make as much noise as you can - protest, call your
congress person, etc.

This is the time to follow the "no quarter given" tactics of the NRA - they
get their members to show up at any legislation anywhere that even smells of
Gun control and raise a massive ruckus - similarly the time to protest is NOW
before Trump rolls out the really evil stuff.

------
robg
Just so we're clear, 412 people have voted this up in 2 hours, with another
226 comments, but _not one_ has signed the petition?

EDIT: I just signed the petition, and with email verification, and it's not
showing up. Anyone else having that problem?

~~~
ocschwar
I am nto signing because I have absolutely no confidence that the petition
will do anything about this.

We're in for a 4 year marathon of trying to save our country from Trump, and
the first thing to do is to estimate what has more of an effect.

Comments and upvotes here are more likely to do some good than signing that
petition.

------
wallace_f
I don't think it is by chance or coincidence that Trump's admin is targeting
_Iranians_. What really is it with American government hating Iran and
Iranians, when there are equal or even worse ethnocentric, human-rights-
abusing, racially intolerant states in the Middle East?

~~~
crispinb
It is always hard to forgive nations whose democratic governments you deposed.

Conversely von Clownstick finds it remarkably easy to forgive nations he
personally has no business with: [http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-trumps-
muslim-ban-exclude...](http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-trumps-muslim-ban-
excludes-countries-in-which-he-has-business-ties-20170128-gu0ptl.html)

------
kome
America, what you have done?

Good luck with this petition! Let's fight for an open world.

~~~
hesdeadjim
It's not America that did this it's a minority of America. The rest of us feel
like prisoners in our own country when faced with this kind of complete and
utter insanity.

~~~
tpaksoy
How is it a minority when 48% of voters elected him a few months ago?

~~~
freddyc
That is quite literally the definition of a minority :)

Seriously though, I take your point and this is a reminder that if we ignore
vocal minorities spouting hate, eventually they may grow big enough to take
control. If you see this type of behavior in your own backyard then please
vote even if you don't think it will matter.

~~~
finid
"vocal minorities spouting hate" tend to win, as they are more than willing to
do anything to get their way.

Remember Hitler and his gangs?

I won't be surprised if a new executive order orders muslims to a camp nearest
to them.

God help America!

------
jest3r1
Wasn't Steve Jobs biological father a Syrian Immigrant or Refugee?

~~~
finid
Yep, his biological father was Syrian, and his adoptive mother was Armenian.

------
crb002
While I understand Trump's motive to micromanage Saudi, Yemen, and Syria due
to ongoing military conflict ... Iran makes no sense. Reminds me of a South
Park Episode,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Yikes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Yikes)!

~~~
lottin
Not including Saudi Arabia makes even less sense.

------
ryderm
Anybody else seeing that the site is broken? It says 1 vote still, even after
signing and confirming my email.

~~~
catawbasam
Same here.

~~~
bawana
alternate facts strike again. in the old days we called this 'government
propaganda'. Let people have 'free speech' but publish the party line in the
news.

------
LyalinDotCom
we need to setup ways for any students stuck outside the country with this
madness to still be able to continue their studios for the 3-month period (or
however long it takes) using digital tools like Skype calling into classes and
other things that can be setup.

We cant give up on those who love to learn and want better lives for
themselves and their families.

This is just such depressing madness.

------
_ph_
It is so easy to say country X or religion Y is evil, but this shows,
effectively this could mean your neighbor, friend or colleague. People, who
are not political but just try live and work and be a part of the community
like everyone else.

------
obi1kenobi
"The federal court for the Eastern District of New York issued an emergency
stay halting President Donald Trump’s executive order banning entry to the US
from seven majority-Muslim countries tonight, following widespread protests at
airports around the country."

[http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/28/14427086/federal-court-
hal...](http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/28/14427086/federal-court-halts-trumps-
immigration-ban)

------
coldtea
I'm all against this immigration ban, but where were the tears and protests
when the previous administrations targeted the same places killing thousands?

------
pedalpete
Though I see this is a whitehouse.gov site, I'm curious as to what counts as a
legitimate signature. I'm not American, not a resident, and not in America, so
what happens if I sign this petition?

Does anybody know how they figure this out? Do a bunch of signatures from
people who have no rights in the US invalidate the petition?

~~~
maxerickson
The petition doesn't mean anything to begin with.

The previous administration used them as a PR device. They aren't binding. Who
knows if it is even intentional that it still works.

~~~
zardeh
If (and that is a potentially big if) Trump continues the Obama admin plan of
responding to all petitions that have >100K signatures, it will be interesting
to see what the response to 'hey you should let this young female student who
was already here back in, since she poses no danger to the US'.

~~~
nebabyte
100k+ signatures = response from trump on twitter

------
slantaclaus
Seriously the fact that it still only says 1/100,000 signatures on Sunday
morning is a conspiracy in my book. I've got a feeling petitions to the White
House will have to be done somewhere other than whitehouse.gov during this
presidency.

------
slantaclaus
Why does it say only one person signed it right now? Surely I'm not the only
one…

------
gerbilly
From what I hear, Iranian schools and universities are excellent.[1]

I work at a company where we have several Iranian researchers working as
interns, and they are doing excellent work.

If the US doesn't want Iranian engineers and scientists, then I'm sure Canada
will be glad to have them.

[1] When I was in high school Iranian students of 9th grade age who immigrated
to Canada would immediately be placed in our 12th grade math classes-and they
would still get top marks.

------
wslh
The MIT should offer a remote study plan to these students.

------
jejay
Why is there just one signiture? I'm not a US citizen so I won't sign, but
what is holding back the rest of us?

------
hallman76
WOW.

@daxorid shared his view - which wasn't inflammatory. The comment was
downvoted, then flagged before I could reply.

 _Terrifying, how? This is what Trump promised, and the reason we voted for
him. Half of us are quite happy to see campaign promises actually
implemented._

 _HN is acting as if this was capricious and unplanned. In fact, it 's what
half of us wanted._

@daxorid voted for a political party that you disagree with. If they can't
share their views openly and honestly we won't learn from their perspective.

Based on a tiny sample of GOP friends, they agree with @daxorid. Those friends
voted for Trump based on campaign promises and they're _happy_ that he's
following-through those promises. For me this was a sort of "oh shit" moment.
What else did he promise?? WP has a list:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-
promi...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-promise-
tracker/)

Half of the country is excited by that list. The other half is not.

~~~
tzs
Based on the discussion on /r/republican and /r/conservative, there appear to
be very few in the GOP who thought that _this_ was what Trump promised or are
happy with it. Many wanted more curbs on _illegal_ immigrants, and more
vetting of new applicants for legal immigration from certain countries...but
not many thought that people who are already here legally on temporary or
permanent visas should be blocked from reentering if they leave temporarily,
such to visit family over a holiday.

------
tehlike
There is hope for greencard holders:
[https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/id...](https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN15C0KX)

------
codybrown
I wonder what YC Part Time Partner Peter Thiel thinks of this...

~~~
grzm
Why? Because this submission is on HN and HN is associated with YC? Need we
drag Thiel into every political discussion? Yes, everything is ultimately
related, but can we try to focus on one thing at time? It's hard enough to
discuss politics constructively on HN without making it harder by reaching out
for every possible tangent.

------
frankzinger
I'd like to point out that the article is a Whitehouse petition and that only
a single person has signed it thus far, but it was posted 8 hours ago!

------
Kinnard
I don't think we can trust a petition site hosted by the whitehouse . . . at
all.

------
Keyframe
What are the mechanics of this ban? I see student was denied from connecting
flight. What happens if said student travels to, I don't know, Germany first.
Spends there a day or two and hops on a flight to US of A?

I ask because I understand ban is for admission of refugees and travellers
from seven countries. Not nationalities.

------
banku_brougham
So there are 300+ comments but is anyone going to sign the petition?

------
akhilcacharya
Absolutely sickening. No other words to put it.

------
marcoperaza
[removed potentially incorrect information]

~~~
_delirium
[deleted reply since parent was deleted]

~~~
marcoperaza
Yeah, I think you're right actually. I've removed my comment so it doesn't
serve as bad information for anyone.

------
nopit
242 comments and 1 signature

------
dboreham
Well, right now a Queen doesn't look like such a bad idea..

~~~
skissane
If Donald Trump was Prime Minister of the UK instead of President of the US,
do you think the Queen would stop him from doing something like this?

I'm pretty sure the answer is "No".

~~~
dragonsky
No the House of Commons would stop him. Unlike the USA, countries with
governments based on the Westminster system, such as Australia, NZ etc don't
give the Prime Minister this type of unlimited power.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system)

~~~
skissane
I don't think the two systems are fundamentally different. If a British PM has
a Commons majority and retains the support of their own party, they can
basically do whatever they like.

Conversely, if Congressional Republicans wanted to stop Trump, they could pass
legislation stripping him of much of the power Congress has delegated to him
(and override any veto), they could pass a joint/concurrent resolution
censuring his policies (and even calling for his resignation), they could
begin impeachment proceedings, they could refuse to pass the budget until he
gives in to their demands. (They may well not do any of these things – but if
they don't, it is because they don't want to, not because they lack the power
to.)

So I'm not convinced the US system and the UK system are fundamentally
different here. Both give the executive utterly vast amounts of power. Both
give the legislature the ability, by somewhat different routes, to remove the
executive.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I don't think the two systems are fundamentally different. If a British PM
> has a Commons majority and retains the support of their own party, they can
> basically do whatever they like.

The difference is that a PM has no independent power; they don't just need a
partisan majority in the Commons, they need the _confidence_ of the majority
of the Commons.

The President has independent power, and is not subordinate to the Congress
the way the cabinet (including the PM) is to the Parliament in a Westminster
system.

~~~
skissane
Strictly speaking, the British PM's legal power comes not from Parliament but
from the Monarch - they are a minister of the Crown, first in rank among the
Lords Commissioners appointed to collectively exercise the office of Lord High
Treasurer, one of the Great Officers of State. Now, as a matter of
longstanding convention, the Monarch will appoint whoever commands the
confidence of the House of Commons-but that convention is nowhere enshrined in
law.

Turning to the US, under the US Constitution, Congress is arguably the most
powerful branch, since Congress has the power of impeachment to remove the
President and judges (including Supreme Court Justices), whereas neither the
President nor the Supreme Court have any corresponding power to remove Members
of Congress. Congress can impeach Trump but Trump can't impeach even the most
insignificant Representative.

------
return0
Trump is creating a bargaining chip for america. This is a ploy, not s long
term plan. I wonder what he ll ask in return for lifting the ban

~~~
malcolmgreaves
Nope. It's just appeasing his base. The man child is not sophisticated enough
to have a coherent, well-manicured strategy. He sees only what's in front of
his nose.

------
akerro
A lot of international students in UK think the same about Brexit, once pound
hits 1:1 with Euro there will be less reasons to stay in the UK for them. What
means less people will pay their student loans from government, and UK will
lose access to European bailiffs...

~~~
blibble
given that EU students will no longer be offered UK student loans or tuition
subsidised by UK taxpayers after brexit, this becomes less of an issue as each
year passes...

it's not exactly easy to collect from former students defaulting on their loan
repayment agreements at the moment either (if they're not in the UK)

(your argument about GBPEUR also makes no sense, if the euro increased in
value that would make the UK cheaper for people holding euros...)

