

Parents coordinate trading of chicken pox-laced goods via Facebook - dpritchett
http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2011/11/04/parents-ordering-chicken-pox-lollipops-through-facebook/

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rdtsc
The stupider the people get, the more regulations and laws need to be passed
to regulate them.

These individuals need to be punished, and if they don't stop, children taken
away from them. I don't see this any different than harsh physical abuse.

All those participating in it, should be guilty of child endangerment as well.

In general those refusing to vaccinate their child should be forced to sign a
waver form that would make it very easy to fast-track their prosecution for
abuse and child endangerment if it can be shown the child has been infected
and their life is in danger or has infected others.

~~~
dogfu
What do you say the relative of someone who had a vaccine and immediately
became crippled and couldn't walk because the reaction damaged their inner-
ear? Just co-incidence? No p-value with a sample of one? Would you make them
take that vaccine? Or let 'em slide on this one? I'm not sure your government
regulations would deal with this case.

The immune system is an organ like the muscles, brain and heart. Putting a
little stress on these organs is actually good. Just because the
autism/vaccine fiasco was fraud doesn't invalidate all concerns. For instance
the school system forcing girls to get "anti-cancer" vaccines when there is an
effect alternative (i.e. "dont' be a promiscuous"). The parents can make that
choice ... or the kid when she becomes a teenager. If polio or small-pox are
threats, certainly the good out weighs the bad. But chicken-pox? Not so clear
cut. AIDS? Again, don't sleep around and dont jab things in your body and you
won't get AIDS.

~~~
tresta
re no need for a hypothetical aids vaccine (or the cervical cancer one) if you
don't "sleep around" or take drugs:

I assume that you've never heard about rape? Or for that matter coming into
contact with HIV positive blood in an accident, or any other infection vector?

~~~
dogfu
Yes. I have heard about "other infection vectors" with AIDS. I'm guessing the
double entendre of "jab things into your body" escaped you.

~~~
tresta
"jab things into your body" is not the only such vector. There is also "having
things jabbed into your body" (a subtle but important distinction).

Your post implies that if someone is infected with the HIV virus it's their
own fault. This assumption is toxic, and makes people more hesitant to apply
resources towards trying to treat and cure people with this disease. It's like
telling a person with lung cancer that "It's your own damn fault for smoking"
when it is perfectly possible to develop lung cancer without ever having a
smoke.

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jrockway
I don't really see the hate for these people. You get the chicken pox once.
The earlier in life you get it, the less troublesome it is.

I'm not going to argue against vaccinations, but the reality is that we have
much more long-term data about having kids play together than the chicken pox
vaccine. Both options are probably equally good at this point, and most people
have personal experience with the first one and not the second one. Therefore
it's not particularly odd to want your kid to get chicken pox naturally.

(I don't buy the argument about "giving the immune system a workout", though.)

~~~
scythe
>You get the chicken pox once.

False.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles>

~~~
wildjim
Strictly speaking, it's not the same as Chickenpox, especially in symptoms and
effect.

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jessriedel
You can believe the unknowns associated with the new chicken pox vaccine
aren't worth the well-known and manageable hassle of having the chicken pox,
without _also_ believing crazy things about vaccines causing autism or sending
infections through the mail.

~~~
umarmung
Exactly.

Inviting around other local kids to interact with each other to overcome the
much heavier risks of the adult version of this disease or to go on frequent
field trips to farms and rural areas while young so that kids bodies are no
strangers to naturally occurring organisms and strengthen their immune system
is VERY different from sending around contagions in the mail!

Risking affecting others without them knowing is very much a red line most
sensible people would never cross.

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Mz
Mailing contagious items: Not cool.

Local "pox party": I have no problem with it.

My ex caught chicken pox from our children around the time he turned 32.
Chicken pox in adults is much more serious than in children. I finally dragged
him to a doctor against his will after watching his fever go up 0.8 degrees a
day every single day until it was over 104F. Above 105 is dangerous. It was on
track to hit that mark within the next 24 hours. Years later, he swore it was
never really that bad (ie his life was never really in danger). I suspect he
partly just didn't remember how bad it was. He wasn't lucid for much of the
time. He was left with much worse scars than the kids. He had fantasies he
would stay home from work and play computer games, like the kids. For at least
a week, he laid on the couch, unable to sit up for long. I had to leave meds
in a covered candy dish to get any sleep. His hands were swollen and his palms
had spots on them, so he couldn't open his medication bottles.

~~~
pasbesoin
s/Not cool/Illegal/

IIRC

And, that would be violation of Federal law. Documented on FB?... No thanks.

My father caught chicken pox as an adult, while travelling. It nearly killed
him.

P.S. Looked at the story (duh). Says the same thing. Anyway, I'll leave my
personal anecdote FWIW.

~~~
Mz
I imagine it is illegal (someone else already said that here). Law and
morality are not the same thing and are fairly often at odds. Historically in
the US, slavery was legal at one time in some states. After it was abolished,
racism was embodied in the legal code. Plenty of morally high minded people
disagreed with those laws.

Whether legal or not, I don't find it acceptable. Similarly, on CF lists,
people routinely post announcements that they have leftover medical supplies
of some sort and are willing to give it away for free (sometimes on the
condition that the recipient cover postage, sometimes not). This is generally
viewed as socially acceptable on most CF lists because medical expenses for CF
are extremely high and people coping with CF are typically financially
devastated by that fact. On the only CF list I own, I announced that this was
not an acceptable practice because I think the price of exposure to the germs
of another person with CF outweighs the value of the supplies. So I think
that's Not Cool either, even in cases where it happens to be legal (and
legality of it varies by jurisdiction in this case and probably also depends
on exactly what is being offered).

~~~
pasbesoin
Given the way entrenched interests warp and these days even write the laws, I
try to keep an independent mindset.

In this case, I have two points:

\- If you're going to do something like this, coordinating it on FB is a
stupid idea. (Mailing contagious materials without taking defined precautions
is seriously frowned upon.)

\- Mail is sometimes inspected. Misdelivered. Undeliverable. Damaged. In this
case, it is most likely not marked as hazardous. What might one be inflicting
upon the unsuspecting handler of such an error condition?

~~~
Mz
_If you're going to do something like this, coordinating it on FB is a stupid
idea._

Yes, I totally agree that coordinating something like this on FB (or many
other websites) is pretty darn dumb. (Isn't there some Einstein quote about
stupidity being infinite or something?)

As for your second point, I was an environmental studies major for a time. I
really don't think most people think that far ahead. I hope, if nothing else,
this does draw enough national attention to educate people as to how foolish
and dangerous it is to mail contagious items. And, oh, breaking federal law by
messing with the mail is very serious business. Much more so than many people
might realize. Even if they don't get enlightened as to how dumb this is,
perhaps they will at least get a clue that this detail is no small matter and
can seriously impact their lives. I'm very okay with fear of the law being a
deterrent to such activities in cases where "common sense" seems absent.

