
Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players - danielrm26
https://danielmiessler.com/blog/why-you-should-treat-c-players-like-a-players/
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kristianc
It's hard to trust that this is from a real "A-player" when it throws so many
of my "not an A-Player but a genial bullshitter" flags.

\- Poorly written and communicated, with faux-profound single word paragraphs

\- 'Insights' that would look more at home on a wall decal ("It’s true that I
resisted the negativity, escaped, and embraced the positivity and rode it to
its potential.")

\- "I used to think this way, before I became enlightened" style statements
showing complete lack of self-awareness

\- Article about a vague concept without defining any of the behaviours that
go along with that concept

\- Reference to 2x2 matrices (iron law of management theory: all of human
behaviour can be collapsed into four quadrants)

\- Sign up for my newsletter modal

\- His own signature at the end of the post

Is there anything in his background that separates this from the low-grade
shlock that pollutes my Medium feed on a daily basis?

~~~
kasey_junk
You've listed things that make him not an A player in your mind, can you list
the things that would indicate he _is_ one? Can you objectively compare that
list to some A players and back test your assumptions?

My biggest problem with the "A" player mythology is that I don't think anyone
has any real way to judge it, so "A" player becomes "looks like me". Which I
think is the heart of our industry's myriad issues.

~~~
kristianc
For me, when I think of an A Player, I think of people like Martin Fowler,
Patrick McKenzie, Jess Frazelle. All have demonstrable track records, and
share hugely detailed posts which are backed up with real experience and not
vague insights.

They are sharing material that generates large amounts of value and helps
define and shape their respective areas (such as Martin's piece on Serverless,
Patrick's work helping support small vendors, Jess's "Containerize everything"
post), and what they do share is clearly and cogently written without bullshit
or hyperbole.

They are names that immediately come to mind when someone asks me "Do you know
someone who is good on... ?"

~~~
tweedledee
Martin Fowler can't program functionally. Which is crazy because of his focus
on DSLs. I do not consider him a good programmer.

~~~
kristianc
Is his book on DSLs more of a high-level / business person's treatment than a
practical guide?

~~~
tptacek
I mean, all due respect, why don't you tell us? He's one of your "A-players".

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ciconia
Nothing can be more destructive to a person's competence and skills than an
abusive treatment by his superiors. As far as I'm concerned, the true test of
leadership is dealing with a subordinate's shortcomings. It's not only about
breaking your workers' spirits (and sometimes causing real psychological
damage), but also about how to get the best out of your team, taking the
abilities of each player into consideration.

~~~
heymijo
What you just described sounds a lot like Peter Drucker's description of
management:

"Management is about human beings. Its task is to make people capable of joint
performance, to make their strengths effective and their weaknesses
irrelevant."

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wellpast
Spoken like an A-player.

It is unfortunately not uncommon to find people who see the world as a fixed
bag of A- vs. C-ers (and many of course whom think of themselves in the A
category.)

But this is a fixed mindset and I think it correlates (when you get down to
it) to one's own private/personal sense of their ability to grow.

You really want to become a rockstar/master/A-player? Don't define yourself by
your skill set. Always keep a clear focus on that wide gap between you and
what you _could_ be. In other words, always think of yourself as a B-player
trying to get to A. Know you'll never get there, but keep trying. Do this, and
you'll reach excellence.

You'll also see how little difference there is between you and the "C-"...and
then you can collaborate on helping each other toward mastery.

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vladgiverts
This post touched on an interesting part of human nature. So much of our
personality and behavior is based on the identity that we create for
ourselves. Most of that gets set in early childhood, but we keep adding to it
with our latest experiences at work, with friends, dating, etc.

"Girl didn't like me? Maybe I'm not attractive." Have that experience enough
times and it becomes a part of how you view yourself (i.e. your Identity) and
you'll behave accordingly. A lot us struggle with identity issues that cause
us to act out in unproductive ways, particularly when we're treated badly
(like as if we're a c-player the author points out).

I think treating people with respect and giving them the benefit of the doubt
as the author advocates is spot on, which is what I suspect is what he meant
by treating c-players as a-players.

What I don't think the author meant was that we should treat ALL c-players
like a-players as that sounds like an oversimplification. It would only help
if someone is actually high potential and their ego and self-esteem issues get
in their way. That's far from the only reason people perform poorly. Quite
often, someone is simply less capable than the top performers (that flows from
the definition of "top" performance). And yes, with experience and practice,
people can improve. And it's good to assume they will and give them the
guidance they need to get there.

But if you treat someone as if they're better than they really are, they might
feel better about themselves but they could also loose the motivation to
improve because they're getting the signal that "they're already there" and
they'll start to develop a distorted self-image that could lead to other kinds
of problems.

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ChuckMcM
People try to live up to the expectations you set for them. From kids to
adults. Expect people to be excellent, ask how you can help when they are
behind (helps validate the expectation) and celebrate excellent results.

~~~
dsacco
Can you do this with your own expectations for yourself?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Yes. I am not a big fan of affirmation but expecting to succeed after some
effort will carry you through a lot of push back

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kelukelugames
I remember listening to a 30 year old manager say you can't turn a C player
into a B or a B into an A. That's a poor attitude for a manager.

~~~
maxxxxx
From my experience most people who talk like that are D players themselves.
They are just pricks who blame their own failures on the people that work for
them.

Most real A players I know are very much into coaching other people and giving
them opportunities to grow.

~~~
kelukelugames
I think you are right. The company used NPS to measure everything. His org had
a score of 10. lmao

~~~
mangamadaiyan
Asking because I'm not familiar with the term. What is NPS?

~~~
kelukelugames
Net promoter score.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Promoter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Promoter)

10 is a low score.

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mcguire
You know you're in for a good ride when,

" _This is so pronounced that if I were to evaluate myself 15 or even 10 years
ago, I wouldn’t recognize myself as an A-player. I simply wasn’t one. And yet
here I sit looking down at my previous self._ "

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thesmallestcat
The post fails to define an A, B, or C player, so it felt like a harangue
about nothing. Frankly I don't believe that measurement along one axis can
capture an individual's impact. Also, discussion of an organization's effects
on one's output and attitude is notably absent. Only the manager-direct report
relationship is considered.

~~~
danielrm26
It's hard to define decent, good, and bad health too. But you know it when you
see it. Managers are the same with employees.

~~~
thesmallestcat
I guess so, but that's what I mean: The article's meaning depends on one's
view. To me, C = inevitable disaster, A = inevitable success, and B is
everybody else. With three grades/classes, that's as far as I can get. You
have to keep the "A"s happy and prepare for their exit. You have to get rid of
the "C"s as soon as you've identified one and given them their fair chances.
But I think that your A-B-C scale only addresses those who I consider "B"s, as
"A"s and "C"s are mostly immune to management technique.

~~~
danielrm26
C is average, as per American school grades. D and F are below average.

~~~
thesmallestcat
You should mention that in your article then, keeping in mind that the
progression from F to A in most grading systems is linear and that some of us
may not see the differences between calibers of engineers in the same way.
That said I'm grasping for the grade analogy, as grades are highly dependent
on the subject matter and other factors that I'd consider external, and
represent a rigid point-in-time assessment.

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rjsw
Isn't the real problem that B player managers _do_ treat their C player
reports like A players, and that both of them believe it ?

~~~
danielrm26
Treating them like an A player includes not babying them and telling them
they're amazing when they mess up. So, no, you shouldn't have that problem.

~~~
rabidrat
But it does involve trusting their expertise and ability to deliver. After
they mess up it's a bit late.

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Blackthorn
I recognize that I'll never be Jeff Dean or Sanjay Ghemawat. That's okay,
though. There's a much smaller set of things I'm really good at, like
debugging. I also get paid acceptably well.

There's a few 10x engineers out there, which I would call A players, but I've
only met a couple of them in my lifetime.

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vogt
Great article. I very much agree with all the points made, and see a lot of
myself in the author's hindsight about themselves.

~~~
kristianc
You must be a real A-player.

~~~
vogt
You must be a hit at parties.

