
Ask HN: Is it bad if I only have experience working in my startup? - hazz99
Hello!<p>I&#x27;m in the early stages of running a small startup&#x2F;business and expect to reach $10-20k ARR in the next few months. Once we&#x27;ve acquired a customer, the service is automatic and doesn&#x27;t require manual input.<p>Each customer represents $2-6K ARR, but we don&#x27;t know their lifetime value. With a bit of effort and marketing I can imagine reaching $200k ARR in the next few years. Split with my cofounder, this could become a very nice lifestyle business, or we could go all-in and do the whole startup thing.<p>But what if it fails? I graduate next year. I&#x27;ll have a CS degree, but my only experience will be building this. My GPA isn&#x27;t amazing because I&#x27;ve spent most of my time getting to this point – it hasn&#x27;t been easy.<p>Any advice?
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yodon
The biggest challenge you will face is what I think of during interviews as
"founder damage." You're used to leading teams, not being on them. You're used
to deciding what to do, not doing what is decided. A good engineering lead
builds and leads teams and makes plenty of decisions, but they do it in a
context of "others around me are people I need to listen to" not "I'm only
listening to this person because I have to because I had to get a normal job."
The best thing you can do to stave off founder damage (which is a lot like
hubris, btw) is to make sure you have a co-founder and/or other team members
about whom you would say without hesitation "they are so much better at X and
Y than I am that I look like a child next to them." Making sure you have
people like that around you is how you make sure you keep learning and keep
being able to fit into society. If you happen to have read that and think
"there isn't anyone I know like that" then the need for those people has
already reached critical importance and finding those qualities in people you
know is your most important task.

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eximius
I will note that particular phrasing would really turn me off as a hiring
manager.

"I have a lot left to learn. I know this because I saw room for improvement at
X, Y, Z. I'm looking forward to working with experts/professionals/etc more
senior than I am to learn from them, etc."

~~~
t0mas88
I think he didn't mean X, Y, Z as other places but as colleagues / co-
founders? So a candidate that is able to tell you something like: "I'm a great
engineer, but I really learned a lot from working with Bob who is amazing at
building teams and Mary who is the best at finance" demonstrates being a
better team player than someone that "can do it all" themselves.

~~~
yodon
As there appears to be some confusion here, and as the author of the phrase
"make sure you have a co-founder and/or other team members about whom you
would say without hesitation "they are so much better at X and Y than I am
that I look like a child next to them."" I will reiterate that X and Y are
things you feel your co-founder and/or team members are much better at than
you, for example "my co-founder is much better at hiring people and writing
testable code than I am" or "my first hire was much better at schema design
and writing performant queries than I am." X and Y are skills or abilities you
respect and acknowledge that others you work with are better at than you, and
they are important because remaining aware of other's strengths is how you
ward off hubris in yourself as a founder.

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fullito
General speaking? It doesn't matter much. You are a Student. Your career is
not something which is just there its something which grows over time.

I had the experience for looking for a new intern and one guy was telling us
about his StartUp. Thats fine you know? but also its 99% bullshit.

A small business as a software developer to build, is actually not that hard.
The demand is just that high. But that person didn't sound like 'hey i was
coding on the side' more like 'yeah we will be the next google'.

Yeah of course you will be and so tell me why you where interviewing with us?

So thats the biggest point: Why do i care about your Startup if you are
interviewing for our position? It should show your passion perhaps but thats
it. If all other candidates are better technical speaking and are a better
team fit, you are out. And with your GPA you probably have risked a good
starting position at a bigger company.

Nonetheless about your Startup: What do you really earn vs. what do you
expect? Why do you even tell us what you expect?

"I can imagine reaching $200k AAR"?

You are student, you have apparently not reached 10-20k AAR and you have not
reached $200k AAR. I don't care about stuff you have not reached. And if its
so great in your eyes, why would you try to be hired?

It is super simple: Show me, in the interview process, that you are honest (
don't cheat, i had that...), you are motivated & passion (you like to talk
about technology perhaps), you have energy (like you will not be the person
sitting in the corner and i have to take care of you all the time) AND you
have basic technology understanding and you in.

And don't come in into an interview and tell me, you wanna be part of our
company but if your startup makes it big, you are out. Like i don't fucking
care about your startup. I care about a team and i might not have the chance
to hire another one because of no available head count.

~~~
Axsuul
This is a great point. Put that hubris away and stay humble.

Building a small business as a software developer is still extremely hard
though which is why they're probably interviewing with you. Demand is high but
in an efficient market, it's much more likely to go towards incumbents.

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ereyes01
Another way to look at it is that you'll be a new CS graduate with some good
practical experience under your belt (many CS graduates can't say the same). I
guess you would be in a similar category as other peers that do internships,
though IMHO if your company does as well as you expect it to, your experience
is much stronger. Maybe you don't even need the job after all?

That being said, focus on getting your degree. That piece of paper has a good
deal of intrinsic value.

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idoby
"Bad" and "good" are meaningless judgements in this context. You're about to
graduate, so you wouldn't be expected to have any real experience, but you do
have experience building and running an actual product. Seems to me like
you've got the time ahead of you to try running your startup and either
succeed or fail, in which case you'd have enough time to restart your career
as an employee.

My only advice would be: the founder mindset is very different to the employee
mindset, and you'd have to take that into account, and, don't quit your CS
degree if you're within 1 year of graduating.

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sheeshkebab
I had a small side software business (really no effort) while making real
money at the day job. That went on for a few years before it finally took over
day job. What I guess I’m saying is there is a different way to approach this,
other than taking what basically is a min wage job, for a long time.

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darepublic
> I'll have a CS degree, but my only experience will be building this.

Isn't the alternative only having a CS degree? Are other people working at
FAANG jobs as they pursue their education?

Obviously an internet stranger can't tell u what to do but I would feel better
if more people told the big tech companies to eff off. They will essentially
bribe u to waste your talent working on their status quo cementing schemes

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Gibbon1
I'll start with rough quote from a producer when asked how do you hired as
producer? Ans: Produce a movie and people will hire you to produce movies.
Even if your movie totally flops. Thing is if you started a business, found
real customers and delivered a product, even if ultimately the business didn't
make it. Congraduations you're a wolf not sheep.

Often companies have beat the business side of things into young engineers and
a lot of them refuse learn what you know already. That's generally valuable.

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Dowwie
Do you realize that most of your peers have, at best, a few summer internships
of work experience? You are already an entrepreneur who has been in the arena!

The decisions you made in life lead you to where you are today. As your
situation changes, so will your approach. You already know how to adapt and
take action, considering your role as an entrepreneur. With these skills,
you're more than ready for whatever you do next.

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fxtentacle
Don't worry. If you have enough hobby projects and real experience, nobody is
going to ask about your CV.

I'm 34 now and I haven't had anyone ask about a CV yet. I usually send a link
to some relevant past projects and they'll talk to my past teammates and then
that's good enough :)

If you are good at coding and building new things, this is still
overwhelmingly a sellers market. So make sure to practice negotiation.

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achillean
It depends on the company that you'll be applying at. Before my own company
was making enough to cover my bills I had to go back to a regular job and most
of my experience at that time was either at my own startup or at others. I had
some companies only offer me junior salaries because they didn't consider my
experience at startups - it didn't count in their books. However, there were
plenty of other companies that valued my background and that's where I found a
home until I could go full-time with my own company (I decided to bootstrap).
The company I joined wasn't a startup. Not all companies will value your
background but the ones that do will pay you well. You'll need to interview
around and don't be frustrated if the first place you apply to dismisses your
startup background.

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yodi
Hello, I have more than a decade experiences in startups: small, medium and
big. If i can wrap it up, think that startup provides the best slingshot to
your life journey if you ride the momentum in the right time.

There no time standard whether one, two or six years is the right amount to
spend in a single startup. All you need is see your growth as your indicator.
If your startup revenue growth is linear, but your own personal growth is sky-
rocketing, that's mean you should stay.

The company will have exponential growth if the team inside grow in explosive
way.

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irvingprime
When I interview candidates, I specifically look for signs of having been a
big player in a tiny team. People from this kind of background often think of
themselves as senior developers because they've had a lot of responsibility.

But, their knowledge is entirely confined to the things they've directly
experienced. Their knowledge is a mile wide and a molecule deep. They don't
know the correct terms for things, haven't thought at all about the trade offs
involved in different approaches, and (as others on this thread have pointed
out) don't know how to deal with a bigger team of people who all have their
own opinions, knowledge and experiences.

I might still hire these people but in junior, not senior roles.

My advice: Be very humble. Don't expect to be given the same responsibility
elsewhere. You may feel you've earned it but you haven't proved that yet.
Really. Learn to accept criticism and to discuss your approach with other
people, even if you think you've got it right.

Also, go back and study those textbooks you've been treating as less
important, really hard. Believe it or not, you are at the very beginning of
your career. There's still a long way to go.

Good luck!

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rintintone
If you end up having to apply for a normal job this just means you're
positioned for "product manager" or something like that, rather than software
developer. Most places, that's _better_ , especially so far as long-term
career goes. In terms both of pay and social standing. Congrats.

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peferron
I was pretty much in the same boat back in 2013, except with no CS degree but
another degree and experience in a different field. What helped me was that at
some point we did freelance development for a company to pay rent, and when
our startup capsized they hired me and other founders because they knew what
we could do. This bootstrapped my software engineer career very nicely. (I
ended up staying 6 years because the work and people were great.)

I'm not suggesting you start doing freelance work as well, but if your startup
enables you to form relationships and prove your skills to people who could
recommend you for interesting roles down the line, that would be super useful.

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hartator
Nope, we will hire you. (julien at serpapi.com)

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LogicX
You should add your company and contact info to your HN profile.

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barbarbar
What you have going sounds awesome. Continue. It seems better to work for
yourself - instead of somebody else.

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CodeWriter23
I suggest listening to or reading “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” by Robert Kiyosaki. You
seem to be confused about whether you want to be an owner or an employee.
Maybe his story will help you shake loose what direction you want to take in
life.

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srameshc
Do not worry about the failure. Keep doing what you are doing if you think
it's worth your time and effort. Some may see your flaws and some may see your
strength if it doesn't work out just like in any other interview. Keep moving
forward.

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tlack
I think a savvy manager would look at your soup-to-nuts experience as a good
thing, perhaps in a product lead or management role, if the tech resume isn't
up to snuff.

Sounds like you've built something amazing - just keep going!

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Hydraulix989
It sounds like you can stay lean and grow your business. Don’t even raise any
VC.

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eximius
I don't think you'll have a problem. If you can document your successes (even
failures have successes), youll have more work experience and success than
your peers. You will stand out, in a good way.

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simplydt
Whatever you don’t learn from being in a “real” job you can make up by reading
good books, good articles, listening to good podcasts and working with a
mentor. Keep learning. Keep asking questions.

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moneywoes
Can you talk about you acquired your first customer and what the marketing was
like?

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ykevinator
Or just make your resume reflect your skills and call yourself the lead
developer.

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xwdv
Failure is also an experience.

