Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do? - MarvelousWololo
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thiago_fm
Maybe my story can help you.

One day I had a very hard day in Germany, like you did, with people screaming,
pressure etc. Being Brazilian, I'm used to people being nice and caring. A
completely different picture here in Germany. I wanted to go back and say fuck
it all.

I have chosen to breath a bit, think, chill. In those moments, we are
basically being tested. If you are there, you are there for a reason, possibly
it's an improvement in life for you, or a challenge. You need to make sure you
stick on your head that this is your test, take it as a challenge.

The human mind and body has millions of years of improvements to handle
CHALLENGES. We can really go through very tough shit, but you can only
activate this mode if you take what you felt, this emotional response, and
have a good and positive reaction.

Eventually you start to get over those problems and conquer some respect. But
you can only do it, if you eat it up.

It's a bit like school. You get bullied, at some point you fight, you beat one
up, the other 5 fuck you up. Then eventually you start to handle those
problems and even can come out on top of it. But only if you fight.

Think about the other possibilities, stay on this company 1 year and find
another job. There will be other screamers on the other job as well, but keep
shovelling shit until you get what you want.

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MarvelousWololo
I don't even speak the local language and if I leave I have to reimburse all
the relocation and visa costs. I don't want to talk to my family because I
don't want them to worry and I'm honestly embarrassed to talk with my friends.
I don't really know what I should do because I was never treated this way in
my entire career. I'm feeling just miserable.

~~~
n-gauge
From your post it's hard to work out if the reason you were shouted at was due
to a work issue, or someone being rude?

If it's the later just ignore it, don't let them get your back up; if it's a
work issue ask them to explain carmly what was wrong as shouting doesn't solve
the problem...

~~~
MarvelousWololo
It was due a work issue. Basically my boss is not happy with performance.

~~~
winkeyless
Maybe your are still navigating the work culture in the company/region. Try to
figure out how much they expect from their employees. If it’s unreasonably
high, don’t blame yourself too much. Otherwise, try to have a constructive
conversation with your peers and your manager. Hope you could find someone to
talk to :)

------
_shadi
Try to stay calm and think about your current situation, and what effects any
decisions you make will have long term, it is easy to make bad decisions when
you are in a bad state of mind.

Even if you leave your current job, nothing guarantees that the next one will
be better, and it might sound easy to leave everything and go back to your
home country, but you will miss a lot by living in the new place for just a
short time, the best thing I can think of is to try to talk to your manager
and tell them that you are not happy about the way that they communicate with
you, and even if you are performing badly that they should inform you about
that and what you need to do to improve in a less offensive way, some people
will change their behavior once they are confronted, hopefully that will make
them treat you better in the future.

it is hard to offer any advice without any more information, if it is only
your manager/team then maybe consider switching to a different team, if it is
a company-wide thing then probably it is best to leave, check you current
visa/status and see if it is easy to change jobs, if not then think(with a
clear and calm head) about whether you can stick with your current job until
you can change it or not, and what any decisions you make now will mean down
the line.

one last advice if you decide to stay with it, being in a bad workplace will
affect you mentally and that might have an affect on your life and
relationships outside of work, try to minimize that and keep all of this at
work.

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interactivecode
Hey! hope I can help, in a lot of european contries employees are quite
protected. Which means that if your job is harming you, in either physical or
mental ways you are protected by law.

With these things it's hard though, try to keep a record of what happens and
try to not participate in it.

Depending on how widespread it is. Talking to HR might work, wherein it helps
if you can take a couple colleagues with you who have had the same happend to
them. (so it's not just you)

In Holland for example there are state law offcies who give advice and help
out with these kinds of things. They know what your situation is and how it
can be handled best. Lawyers offices might also have free first meeting to
help you and provide you with some context.

You seem to have a hard time with this. I've been is a very similar position.
What I would advice is you talk to you GP and get appointments with
psychologists. This will also protect you later if things get worse and you
don't wanna show up at work anymore. Being sick at some, with a psychologist
treatment will also make sure they can't fire you. and then it's a bit of a
waiting game perhaps.

Anyways, feel free to message me and I can help out. I went through a similar
situation and it really messed me up. I would like to make sure it doesn't get
that bad for other people.

------
quickthrower2
That sounds like it sucks. We'd probably need some more information to help
though. Who shouted at you, what did they say, what is their working
relationship to you?

Why did you travel 10000km for a job? Is it just for that job, or did you
travel to that place because you want to be there and you picked this job? Can
you go back.

So many questions. Maybe tell us a bit more about the situation and you'll get
some better thought out responses in return. Otherwise it is guesswork.

I see you are giving some more information in the thread, but it would be good
to hear a lot more. Do it in a way that protects anonymity of course.

Someone shouting at you is bad, and it's a red flag for me to think about
quitting* but not necessarily enough by it's own to quit a job.

* Because even if it is a colleague not the boss, its an organization that has a culture where this is acceptable. And most likely it will happen again. And I don't have the zen abilities to let stuff like that go. infact it would ruin my physical and mental health. Workplaces where I am bullied are an instant quit for me, but thats based on a bunch of reasons that might not apply to other people.

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thenaturalist
Sorry to hear you had to go through this.

Shouting is a sign of weakness on the part of your boss. Why he had a weak
moment? There might be dozens of reasons big or small and we certainly can't,
but maybe you can put how it happened into context a bit. Maybe your boss had
a bad day or was hangry, maybe he is under some heavy professional or private
stress, maybe he just got some really bad news just before this happened.

In any case, this is a total no go, and if I were you, I'd draw a line. I
personally have a three strike policy if someone treats me extremely unfairly.
If it happens the first time it may be annoying, but maybe I also didn't get
the full picture. I'll tell the person that what happened made me extremely
uncomfortable and that I need to know the context of why it happened. I will
also tell the person on that first occasion, that if it happens a second time
its on them and the third time we're done and I'll show no regret or mercy in
cutting ties or taking appropriate action against their behavior.

This system helps me to stay calm and focussed if stuff happens as I know
already how it will play out and I don't worry about the future that much.

I don't know your context, but if you're a software engineer who was hired at
a company 10k away be aware that you're on the long end of the stick here. You
will most likely find employment again - and hopefully know what to look out
for the second time. Do not be afraid to ask direct questions, I would say
that is much more socially accepted in Western Europe (most of all in Germany)
than in Asian cultures - as far as I'm aware of, please correct me if I'm
wrong.

Godspeed and if you want someone to talk to, feel free to reach out (mail in
profile). I'm a good listener.

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frnkng
It may not be uncommon in some regions of Bavaria/Austria to directly
communicate negative emotions. It is also not uncommon to personally insult
the person who caused the negative emotions.

In those regions the feedback scale is shifted as follows:

1\. No complaints: Good work done

2\. Minor insults: acceptable work delivered

3\. Heavy insults on personal level: delivered work should be enhanced

4\. Person stops talking to you: delivered work is insufficient

~~~
konradb
Why do you think the culture is this way? It does not seem optimal.

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pcunite
Just a perspective ... they maybe under enormous pressure themselves. See if
that is true, let them know you want to do a good job. "If I'm making you so
anger, what are actionable steps to where I can do better?"

If they are just jerks, well, maybe you can tough it out for a year.

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iamthelord
Really sorry to hear that. But be the better person and think rationally. Let
the other person know that this was not ok behavior. If this has been a
pattern then smile and act calm and start to look for a new job.

I know you have traveled far but trust me in retrospect everything will make
sense. Just act smartly and not emotionally. But i understand the anger i
would get if i am shouted upon.

------
photonios
Can you tell us what country in Western Europe? Depending on the country, you
should worry less or more.

Some cultures are more into this and they value straightforwardness above all
else, even if that means a heated yelling match. The expectation is that you
yell back (if needed). This would be expected and not considered weird or
unacceptable

~~~
davismwfl
This is correct IMO. I have worked in cultures where raising your voice and
shouting is not considered "yelling" (or demeaning) as an American might
interpret it, but just considered communicating directly. Every culture is
unique and you should first respect and learn about the culture.

Frankly, ask a co-worker or two for input, be up front and say hey, I had a
talk with so and so the other day and I am a little unsure how to interpret it
given my lack of knowledge locally. Ask them to help you interpret it, frankly
if it is bad better to know now, if it is nothing they'll tell you. Also, they
may offer up that this is a normal culture thing or they may say hey, this
person is an asshat and this isn't normal and then at least you understand
where things are at better.

I have worked a lot with various cultures and finding how to motivate and what
works for them is the key thing. I have had people get seriously nervous and
on edge that when they knew they screwed up I didn't yell at them so they
thought their job was done for, but my style is very calm and easy going 99%
of the time. I rarely raise my voice ever, just because it isn't necessary for
me to communicate that way plus I'd rather figure out what went wrong and fix
it than dwell on who. And if I have to terminate you, it'll never be a
confrontational situation because you will know though communication long
before that it is coming and you've had many opportunities to fix it, but I
won't be an ass and I won't need to raise my voice. But that is not the case
in other cultures, so if I was working in some Countries I'd expect a very
different way of being treated, I also know I wouldn't work in some because it
would be mentally taxing for me.

------
I_am_ravi
was looking at your other post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18634871](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18634871)

Looks like you knew this was coming (unless the friend in the other post was
you)

I know this could be hard given how your management treats employee, but the
best thing you can do is make sure you bring this up in next one on one. See
how the response is from the manager. If he takes it personally, dont even
bother trying to give more feedback.

Changing teams within the organization can be an option, else best case would
be travel back 1000KM :(

------
80mph
No job is perfect. There will always be difficult personalities wherever you
go. Just remember that you work to live, and not the other way around. Treat
this as a learning exercise for your next job.

------
gus_massa
When did you get this job? Has something similar happened to you before?

------
n-gauge
Are you in a call center role?

~~~
MarvelousWololo
Not really, I'm a software engineer.

------
BA4gDY-cqjsEPWn
Start looking for a new job.

~~~
MarvelousWololo
Unfortunately my visa is attached to my employer for one year. If I look for a
new job I have to go through the visa application process again.

~~~
BA4gDY-cqjsEPWn
> If I look for a new job I have to go through the visa application process
> again.

If you are a sensitive person who cannot tolerate being shouted at then I'd
say it's not a big issue if you go through the visa process again. If you are
truly miserable in your current situation like you said, then it's not good
for your mental health to stay there longer than absolutely necessary.

------
wadk2
tell the person that its not acceptable, if it happens again, quit the job

