
Airbnb Is a Risky Neighbor - lmg643
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-06-20/airbnb-is-a-risky-neighbor
======
notlisted
Having lived in a BK building where at least 25% (4 out of 16) of the tenants
rented out their apt. on AirBnB with regular frequency, I can't wait for this
to be addressed once and for all...

Strangers with keys to the front door, easily copied because our landlord
didn't invest in secure locks. Strangers coming home at 3am on a weekday (Mo-
We), inebriated, slamming the doors waking us up and the kid as well, quite
often with more raucous strangers in tow for a night cap. Strangers picked up
in a bar of our 'gentrifying' hood, who left at 5am after knocking back more
beers and/or some boots.

I paid rent, for the joy of living in a virtual dorm, they collected monies
while affecting my quality of life and safety. The lease specifically forbade
short-term subletting. We lived in that place for 13 years, 10 without
problems, but the last 3 at times unbearable because of these "good friends
from Europe".

When we moved, our friendly neighbors across the hall, avowed AirBnB hosts
(they came clean), suggested that we renew our lease one more year (rent
stabilized) and put our apt. on AirBnB "as a source of income". They would
happily "manage" our AirBnB listing (key transfer, cleaning) for a piece of
the pie. We declined, we liked our other neighbors too much...

With reports from Berlin, San Francisco and other cities showcasing how AirBnB
has affected availability of apt's and is one of the main drivers of rising
rents ( eg see [http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/item/airbnb-san-
francisc...](http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/item/airbnb-san-
francisco-30110.php) and
[http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/1230/Berlin-
squee...](http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/1230/Berlin-squeezes-
Airbnb-on-short-term-apartment-rentals) ) it's about time something is done
about this.

Let's stop calling them social sharing companies, and just rename them
"loopholes", who make money by assisting others in breaking the law, violating
the terms of their lease, and enabling tax evasion whilst denying any type of
responsibility for "sharing" my quality of life to pieces...

Glad regulation is in the pipeline. Private home owners who reside in their
own houses, share away, but keep AirBnB out of apt. buildings.

Edit: words/grammar

~~~
wyager
>The lease specifically forbade short-term subletting.

Then it sounds like your lease agreement isn't being enforced. That's a
landlord problem, not a legal problem.

>Glad regulation is in the pipeline.

Why? So that all of us who use AirBnB have no options left? I know I can't
afford travel without it.

How about instead of trying to ham-fist legal solutions to minor problems, you
just get your landlord to enforce the lease agreement that already bans AirBnB
renting?

~~~
wpietri
It's a landlord problem if it happens in one place. If it's happening all over
the place and is facilitated by a single entity or a small number of entities,
it certainly is a problem that will end up getting solved by legislation.

If AirBnB were serious about legal compliance, there are plenty of tools they
could make. Any developer here could suggest several, I'm sure. But they're
intentionally sailing very close to the wind. They've done well by it so far,
but I could imagine this strategy biting them in the ass if they push it too
far. A couple of spectacular failures yielding some dramatically written
articles would be enough to generate a lot of public outrage.

~~~
visarga
> If AirBnB were serious about legal compliance, there are plenty of tools
> they could make

If AirBnB were serious about legal compliance, 100 copy cat sites will sprout
trying to take a piece of its pie. You can't stop it. It's like Napster.

------
mwsherman
Airbnb will naturally drive up rents in places where it’s being used. If a
tenant has the capacity to pay (e.g.) $2000 for an apartment, but now can get
an additional (e.g.) $300 a month, the tenant’s capacity to pay is now $2300.

A savvy landlord or condo association would want to capture this. Because it’s
new, it’s seen as a disturbance. A little bit of thinking would reveal that
there is now $XXX new money coming in the door (due to better utilization of
the property).

It’s in the owners’ ultimate interest to figure out how to either a)
accommodate this explicitly and safely, and capture some of the new revenue or
b) prohibit it because the tenants prefer it, but know that the price of a
“non-shared” building will carry a premium.

One way a condo association might adopt the idea is to point out that
Airbnb’ers $$ might be used for building upgrades or to reduce condo fees.

~~~
logn
An HOA board which explicitly allows Airbnb listings, and especially one that
profits from it, is in for a world of pain. You cannot get financing for a
mortgage in a short-term rental community. That will discourage new buyers who
can't get financing and drive down re-sale values.

~~~
mwsherman
Why would a lender be troubled by this? The property, due to a new source of
income, is worth more. Seems like more income = less risk from the lender’s
point of view.

~~~
logn
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have extensive rules on what mortgages they'll buy.
These are known as conforming loans and get buyers the best terms and easiest
approval (thus raising sale prices). For condos these rules are especially
complex. Any property which has commercial use or rentals is already flagged
for extra scrutiny and there are some uses which flat-out get it disqualified.

Lenders not only want to be able to have Fannie/Freddie buy their loans
eventually, but they also want the home to be easily sold. And traditionally
home buyers want the "white picket fence" dream. Once the property turns into
a an apartment/vacation/commercial complex, their market of buyers totally
changes. There's nothing wrong with that inherently but it means that
different people need to be underwriting and making those loans who can
properly assess the value.

------
chatmasta
So what does Airbnb do when a property owner demands Airbnb delist his
property from its site? Clearly an owner has more right than his tenant to
determine where his property is rented, especially if their lease agreement
prohibits short term rentals.

If Airbnb received a legal notice from a property owner demanding it delist
his property, it seems like they would have to comply. Otherwise they might
face a pretty simple case of negligence for listing an owner's property for
rent without his approval. The only evidence the owner needs to supply is a
signed copy of the lease and public records of ownership.

So why aren't landlords doing this? I think the issue is either they don't
care, or there's no easy way to do it. Perhaps somebody should set up a
service that facilitates this process by reducing it to uploading a copy of
the lease agreement and ownership records, then sending a request to Airbnb.
If enough property owners use a service like that, it could gain some
significant attention.

~~~
notlisted
I did not get this either, until I read
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7924005](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7924005)

Part of the story here is that the extra income the hosts generate allows them
to raise the rents or at the very least reduce turnover.

------
jakozaur
Yeah, it's happen again and again.

I love AirBnB as a customer, used it a few times and have a great experience
with it... but I would be worried if somebody rent apartment next to me
without they presence at all...

... on the other hand how would you enforce non-subletting policies? Likely
only some high-end biometrics access could do that, but that won't happen any
time soon in vast majority of the places.

~~~
jdhopeunique
One option might be for AirBnB to have an opt-out policy for landlords.

~~~
patmcguire
They can't, because then everyone would opt out. Professional landlords keep
up on what's going on in their business as much as any other group of people -
you don't think they have sites and mailing lists? - and renting isn't a
business you can be careless about, because bad things really do happen to
property.

So AirBnB pretty much has to do the wink-nudge thing, where they officially
forbid 90% of transactions, but let them happen anyway.

~~~
jdhopeunique
I am not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, but hypothetically, couldn't
the landlord simply have his lawyer send a list of addresses he owns to
Airbnb? Shouldn't Airbnb have a responsibility to exclude addresses upon
receiving a DMCA-style take down notice?

~~~
rcthompson
That has the same problem as DMCA takedown notices. Anyone could claim to own
any address, so then Airbnb would have to verify every address claimed as un-
sublettable by a landlord instead of verifying every address claimed as
sublettable by a tenant.

~~~
jdhopeunique
I would suspect ownership of physical addresses to be a lot less murky and
problematic than copyright ownership since it is a matter of public record and
issues of fair use do not come into play. Ownership of a physical address
could be verified once and thereafter excluded until a new landlord who buys
the property opts-into the service.

IANAL, but I would think that if Airbnb ignored a request to exclude
addresses, that would likely expose them to a greater chance of losing a
lawsuit.

Additionally, cities or states could pass laws requiring services like Airbnb
to have easy opt-out policies for landlords rather than banning the service
altogether.

------
aerolite
So everyone suddenly hates AirBnB, huh?

~~~
notlisted
Nope. Not everyone. I wish. The nasty side-effects of AirBnB in metro areas
however are becoming increasingly clear to non-users/non-hosts... and
journalists.

------
mantraxC
If you want to avoid the moral hazard of tenants subletting their apartment,
and the owners being screwed, you need a mechanism for the contract (which
disallows subletting) to be enforced.

So how do you effectively enforce that? Should the owner have cameras in the
hallway? Should the tenants be subject to random checks? some balance has to
be found to keep both sides happy.

The other question is why are tenants going through the trouble and risks of
subletting. And this guy knows why:

[http://moodyeyeview.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/toodamnhigh....](http://moodyeyeview.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/toodamnhigh.png)

You might notice Airbnb has virtually no presence (relatively) in countries
where the rent is lower, especially in relation to people's income.

~~~
uptown
The rent is too damn high. But it's not being helped by Airbnb. When "spare"
housing is converted to short-term rentals then rental units remain near
capacity, and rents continue to rise. The traditional scenario is that
apartments remained empty, thus increasing the supply of available housing,
and putting downward pressure on rent prices.

~~~
wpietri
Yeah, I suspect cities are going to start banning for-profit full-time
subletting, especially in cities with rent control. It'd be a shame if more
reasonable use cases get swept up in that.

~~~
notlisted
Of note: in NYC, it is already illegal according to most leases, and short-
term leases are illegal for home-owners unless they reside in the home at the
same time.

------
wyager
I think it takes a really fucked up worldview to say "I don't like noisy
visitors, so we should just ban AirBnB outright."

Really? Is that your first response whenever you don't like something? Just
make it illegal!

How about you ask for enforcement/introduction of non-subleasing policies for
your building? There is absolutely _no_ good reason to screw over everyone
else in the process.

~~~
dominotw
you keep repeating the same thing over and over. How do you suggest landlords
enforce the policy?

~~~
wyager
>How do you suggest landlords enforce the policy?

Evicting tenants who don't follow it? That's how lease agreements work.

~~~
sanswork
Have you ever been through an eviction process as a landlord? It's not fast,
and its far from easy.

