
Part time Entrepreneur, fulltime Employee - staunch
http://sdk.org.nz/2010/02/10/part-time-entrepreneur-fulltime-employee/
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patio11
This is totally doable, although I don't envy him for trying to do it while
also having a wife and kids. If your life situation allows you to play WoW,
your life situation allows you to run a business. Heck, my business is
_considerably_ less complicated than the guild I used to run. I managed to cut
my headcount by 39 and my hours by 75%. (You may have to stop playing WoW.
Apologies in advance, but trust me, the loot gets better.)

It occurs to me that I've never done a blog post explicitly about doing a
business while also employed. I think I might over the weekend. Is there
anything specific y'all would be interested in hearing about?

~~~
nkh
I would love to hear about any techniques you have for overcoming mental
fatigue at the end of your work day when you still have business work to do.

Did you work on your business before the work day started? Or something
different?

~~~
scorpioxy
Seconded. It seems to me that whenever people tell you to keep your day job
while trying to start a business, their day jobs are not related to
programming.(so IT, analyst...)

I would love to read something about how your code all day for your day job
and then code all night for your business. That info, coming from somebody who
has done it before would be a very interesting read.

(Another interesting thing would be reading about how to keep your sanity
while doing all of this for more than a few weeks)

~~~
gridspy
To code on both, do something you care about as your startup. _really_ care
about. Also, there is lots to do. Do whatever seems most fun to you at the
time. By the time you are forced to do things for clients, you'll have enough
code and good habits formed to manage it.

To stay sane, set strict rules about time off. For me, Friday night and
Saturday (all day and night) are family time. Sunday is totally Gridspy time.
If I start to feel tired, admit it and remind yourself that you can ship one
month later and take a few days off here and there.

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gridspy
Proud to see my blog post on HN.

It has been a tough slog working full-time while spending every other waking
moment on Gridspy. It doesn't help that I spend every waking moment thinking
about it, even when I should be applying myself to my full-time job.

Biggest challenges:

1) Starting work again at 7pm after dinner, and sticking with it as long as
possible

2) Stopping at 10:30pm so I'm not dead after 2 days

3) Taking time off on Saturday, simultaneously fantastic + frustrating

4) Being an available father, giving love and attention to my kids

5) Knowing that I could do in one normal day what takes me Monday..Friday to
do.

The second I can step up and go full-time Gridspy without going bankrupt in 1
month, I will.

~~~
Sukotto
Well written and it comes at a great time for me. It's such a wonderful
feeling to know there's someone else out there like me... I too am a family
man (2 + 1 in the oven) with a fulltime job and a mortgage, and am trying to
make time to build something by myself.

I love pg's essays though I often feel depressed after reading them. He
frequently seems to be saying "don't even try unless you're young, free, have
at least one partner, live in the valley, have no other obligations, and are
willing to 'work until you endanger your health'"

Added your blog to my RSS reader.

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Sukotto
@pg: Uh... that came across as far more negative than I intended. I really do
like reading your work and want to read more. The fact that I don't fit into
(what I think is) your primary audience does NOT make them any less valuable
to me.

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davidedicillo
I'm sure dedicating yourself to one single project may be better, but doing
both is absolutely doable at the beginning. You can even go a little further.
At one (recent) point of my career I had more full time employees than the
company of which I was an employee at the very same time. Sometimes you don't
have the option of risk it all, so you need to adapt, even if that means
skipping your beauty sleep. It's all about been driven, just like you are.

~~~
gridspy
Thanks.

Honestly, what Gridspy needs is more of Me. I don't see myself paying other
people to do work until I am running full-time because I am more dedicated (it
_is_ my startup) and also I know the code better.

Interesting situation to be in, working elsewhere while your start-up employs
others. I'd be jealous of my employees in that situation.

~~~
davidedicillo
Oh, I was just working 16 hours instead of 8 (mmm... that actually didn't
change after I quit). My case is different cause mostly I'm a designer/front-
end developer so I couldn't have done it all by myself anyway.

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thinkbohemian
Sounds about right without the kids.

Btw, if you have a blog you should probably take the opportunity to pimp your
own site with a little seo magic. looks like your first keyword is "power use"
and the chances of putting someone else putting that in an "a" tag aren't that
likely. Also a direct link to the site rather than just the blog entry would
be helpful for real people.

Google will take the first link to [a href = "gridspy"][/a] and take a look
inbetween the a tags, and consider that a relavent term for searches so [a
href = "gridspy"]power use[/a] would help increase your search ranking for
that term.

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gridspy
Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm still focusing on the part of the "SEO Pyramid" where I create great
content that people want to read. There is heaps of tuning to do soon.

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markkoberlein
There should be a support group for over 30 startup founders that have
families, bills, and full-time jobs.

My advice to any one trying to do this is to be patient and find a time
management system that works for you. Also, get used to the hours between 8pm
and 2am. Those hours can be your best friend and worse enemy.

~~~
dugmartin
Hi, 38, married, 2 kids, full time job and a mortgage here.

My hours are from 4:30am to 7:15am, 30 minutes at lunch and 30 minutes making
the next day's todo list before bed.

Even though the time I can commit is short I'm much more productive now than I
was at 28 working crazy hours.

~~~
cpher
Same here. 37 yrs old w/ 2 kids (3 & 2 yr olds!). Full-time job that I like
but don't love. Lots of ideas that need room to breathe in their own skin. I'm
preparing to create an LLC to do just that.

I don't know where it will lead in the future (maybe nowhere), but I'm
prepared to deal with that. The harder thing to deal with is simply sitting on
the sidelines doing nothing while life passes me by.

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pxstock
Wonderful read. Your story could be mine. I completely understand all the
things you’re saying. I know what it feels like to have two small kids, a job,
a mortgage, having to get up at night to feed a baby and dreaming of having
your own succesful business. I have been developing my own sites for the last
decade, without ever being really succesful (in terms of money). I’ve been
working at my own computer from eight in the evening until I can’t keep my
eyes open. Almost every night, and many saturdays and sundays. Sometimes in
the middle of the night, when I can’t sleep (which happenes quite often :-).

Even though the lack of succes is at times wildly dissapointing, especially
when seeing friends having good academic careers (a path I could have chosen),
and even though I feel tired at almost any moment of any day, I’m not
complaining. Not once. I cannot help but go on with the next application, and
the next and the next. It’s my dream, and one day I will succeed.

I currently have two things in the pipeline, for which I have the same high
hopes again - even though the odds are against me :-)

I hope you do well. Instead of just talking about the things you could do
(like many people), you act. And you work long days. You deserve your succes,
and I hope you will have your deserved succes one day, hopefully just as me.

Ah, and perhaps most importantly: I found your post to be very motivational.
Keep it up!

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FreeRadical
Maybe focusing on and sticking with one thing may be a better alternative?

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pxstock
Good point, but don't get me wrong: I don't work at too many things at the
same time. Of the two things I'm working on now, one is rather simple, so I
don't think I'm dividing my energy over too many things.

(And also, when I get excited about something, I just can't wait to do at
least some work on it :-)

~~~
gridspy
You do need to stick to one idea for a long time for it to succeed. See
[http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/01/overnight-
success-i...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/01/overnight-success-it-
takes-years.html)

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holograham
+1

Even college grads can follow some of this advice. Come out of school ladened
with debt is no picnic and sure going straight to a startup sure seems like a
sexy idea but even Paul Graham admits most startups fail. Sure valuable
experience, and new contacts help ease that but there are alternatives. I
would prefer to go into business for myself once I am debt free and on solid
footing (not waiting because I am scared....well I am a little)

Not to mention that above average coders can make some good salaries.

~~~
mattlong
But are you really going to be able to walk away from a comfortable life and
good salary some years down the road to try something risky? The longer you
get used to having disposable income and the freedom to do whatever you want
outside of 9-5 knowing you'll have a job to go back to tomorrow, the less
likely you'll be willing to take the plunge.

I landed a good job right out of school. I soon after (i.e. a few months) left
that job to pursue my entrepreneurial dreams because it would have been many
times more difficult to leave after being comfortably employed for a few years
and fully out of debt.

I'm not saying this scenario never happens, because clearly it does. But
there's a reason the stereotypical startup founder is a 20 something fresh out
of school or a drop out living on Ramen.

EDIT: grammar

~~~
cpher
On the other hand, having substantial job experience in an industry helps you
identify various pain points and can give you the perspective and wisdom you
need to pursue your own venture. If I were a potential customer I would trust
a 15-year veteran over a young and inexperienced person when they're selling
their "solution" to my problem.

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snprbob86
I'm doing this now, but don't have a wife or kids to worry about. It's still
HARD. Pacing only solves the burnout problem, but fails to solve the
satisfaction problem. Only working 15 to 20 hours each week leaves a lot of
gaps where we simply lose track of our short term goals and spend a lot of
time re-orienting ourselves. When we actually have a productive day, it
creates frustrating contrast to the unproductive ones. You constantly think
"if only we had another 25 hours each week, we'd be so much further along".

~~~
gridspy
Hear hear! I have exactly that problem. Also, Full-time Sunday (for me) is a
bittersweet taste of what that would be like.

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Mc_Big_G
I'm in the same boat. Knowing and repeatedly experiencing the fact that most
startups fail, I have accepted that the time spent is not wasted, even if I
never make a dollar. I've already seen positive results in contacts made and
experience gained. However, I still have those days when I think the guys
"wasting" their time playing WoW or xbox are getting the last laugh.

~~~
pxstock
About your last line: Some people do indeed seem to just be in the right place
at the right time and have good things fall in their lap just like that. Even
while playing WoW :) But no, I think ultimately only your own hard work is the
best possible guarantee for success.

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frosty
the issue i face is, when i start working on my side project at 8pm i just
want to keep working on it and before i realize its 3/4am and now i am late
for office next day :(

~~~
sailormoon
haha. I hear you brother. And let me guess, after spending the whole week
burning the midnight oil and getting 3-4 hours sleep per night, you catch up
by sleeping all day saturday?

Try modafinil.

~~~
sailormoon
I presume the downvoter thought I was being condescending, but I was
commiserating! That's the exact pattern I've fallen into too many times : /

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zarski
I don't really buy into this approach especially with young children and a
wife. Read all the posts detailing how hard this approach is without a wife
and kids. How much time is this guy spending with his spouse? How happy is the
spouse going to be with you constantly on the computer. This kind of advice
will mostly lead to a divorce. Of course, this is case by case as some spouses
may be OK with being totally ignored or perhaps you can convince them that
this amazing web application is going to make a fortune and you will be able
to purchase an island for her (just a couple more weeks honey I promise!);
however, for most this advice will land them in a financial and emotionally
devastating divorce. When you get married and have kids you need to put some
selfish needs on the back burner. I think a better approach is to take money
from savings and quit your job. Or perhaps go to 20 hours a weeks or something
like that. And if you can't do something like that than just forget it -- it
is not meant to be. Your gold rush web application is just not that important
-- your wife and kids are.

~~~
theBobMcCormick
I completely agree that anyone with kids absolutely _must_ make their kids the
#1 priority in their life. Having said that however, it sounds like the OP is
working on his startup in the % of his free time that many of his peers might
be using for more conventional hobbies like bowling, playing WoW, watching TV,
etc.

~~~
gridspy
That is true. Also, any time I spend not working on Gridspy or my day job I
spend with my wife and kids.

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sabat
This is precisely my M.O., save for having an active project or a definite
idea. :-)

~~~
gridspy
Yeah. Don't bother until you have an idea that really fires you up. However,
you might want to spend the time actively searching for that great idea
(research into unautomated industries, say).

