
Cryptocurrencies are collapsing - dannylandau
https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/
======
flowctrl
A confluence of factors:

1\. China cracking down harder:
[https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/01/16/business/16reuter...](https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/01/16/business/16reuters-
china-bitcoin.html?partner=IFTTT)

2\. South Korea cut off access to banks by cryptocurrency exchanges in
December, and access to exchanges by foreign traders. As a result the prices
in the country spiked, and the largest price aggregator CoinMarketCap removed
Korean exchanges from the index because they were skewing the averages. This
caused ~$150B to appear to have suddenly vanished, gapping prices down. This
is when the sell-off began in earnest. Then recently the South Korean Minister
of Justice said he wants to shut down exchanges, but then the PM says that
would require a vote in the National Assembly on new legislation. They are
consulting with Japan (who are positive on crypto) and China (who are not) to
create a new regulatory framework.
[http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180116000817](http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180116000817)

3\. Indonesia just banned cryptocurrency transactions, stating only their
native currency is legal tender.
[http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2018/01/15/bank-
indonesia...](http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2018/01/15/bank-indonesia-
police-prevent-bitcoin-transactions-in-bali.html)

4\. France's central bank has been whining about cryptocurrency for some time
and finally convinced the Minister of Finance to make a public statement and
authorize a draft of new regulations.
[https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/905169/bitcoin-
France...](https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/905169/bitcoin-France-China-
South-Korea-ban-illegal-activities-Bruno-Le-Maire)

5\. A speculative theory: the Bitcoin futures contracts are about to expire,
and some investors will have bet on lower BTC prices. There could be large
market players deliberately pushing prices down to meet those futures bets. Or
just market makers wanting to get in at a lower price point.

~~~
stillbourne
Or it could be, gasp, perhaps bitcoin was overvalued? No, anything but that.

~~~
storafrid
How would you define "overvalued"? Is it the current average price compared to
a very low price three months from now? What if it recovers a few weeks after
that — would that change the fact that it was once "overvalued"? Valuation is
not based on nothing, in vacuum. The challenge is to understand the underlying
factors. The post you replied to actually tried to shed some light.

~~~
jhoechtl
The price of energy required to mine 1 BTC. What else? That's its inherent
value.

~~~
paulgb
This is just the discredited labor theory of value, applied to machines
instead of humans.

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
In other words, I could spend an hour exerting effort and have nothing of
value to show for it at the end?

~~~
jrimbault
That's obvious... You can work for a year and still get nothing... Because
your work has no value in and of itself.

In general things are only as valuable as the _" market"_ is willing to pay
for them.

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
> That's obvious

Sure, I was agreeing / checking my understanding was correct :)

------
eddz
I would call it more of a "market correction" than a "collapse."

~~~
viach
Indeed, I wouldn't call a change 15K -> 13K a collapse.

~~~
nopriorarrests
according to reuters, "Bitcoin extends slide to trade down 18 percent on day
at $11,191 on Bitstamp Exchange, on track for biggest one-day fall in three
years" \- so, pretty significant move.

~~~
lawlessone
it was 1K at the start of last year so yeah this years bubble will probably
burst.

~~~
pygy_
I'm suspicious of growth curves that are still supra-linear when plotted in
log scale...

------
singularity2001
The December 23 'collapse' so far was bigger, however there is some
significant market momentum which I found easier to grasp here:
[https://cryptowat.ch/](https://cryptowat.ch/)

------
maze-le
This site lists 1450 different cryptocurrencies. I wonder how many of them can
be used as actual currency. Bitcoin adoption has stalled and at least one big
vendor (valve/steam) dropped it because of the price instability.

~~~
anonytrary
Why businesses might not use Bitcoin:

1\. Bitcoin remains speculative and volatile. This will cause it to be adopted
by smaller businesses that can "do things that don't scale". We won't see big
businesses support mainstream crypto payments until the demand is high enough
to justify the risk.

2\. Bitcoin itself is a clamped network, as such the fees are very high. You
can't sell Lemonade at your stand with Bitcoin if the fees are much greater
than the cost of a cup of lemonade.

Other cryptocurrencies aim to solve these problems.

~~~
CPLX
3\. Because US dollars work fine

~~~
consp
Only if you are in/from the US with a US credit/debit card. Otherwise the fees
alone should make you stop using them.

~~~
collyw
Rubbish. I live in the EU and buy stuff from the States on a semi regular
basis. Shipping costs are usually the deciding factor, card fees are
insignificant.

------
jcrei
Kraken came back online, and that made it easier for people to sell their
cryptos?

------
kortext
Intrinsic value of Cryptocurrency is 0. Period.

~~~
deweller
So is a piece of paper with fancy printing on it that says ONE HUNDRED
DOLLARS.

Currency is an abstraction. It is a social contract to value something at a
certain level. That contract is enforced at the highest levels in our county
which is why it works so well.

But make no mistake, $100 can buy stuff because only because we all agree to
value it at about the same level. If the government collapses, that piece of
paper's only worth is how much warmth it will give you when you set it on
fire.

~~~
kortext
Do you really wanna compare private company with legitimate government?

Which private company has such a power and credit backed by gigantic land &
properties, all the resources from those land, super control from police,
military forces?

Present value of legitimate tender is printed on it's face and legitimate
government CAN force it. Never, ever confront to big brother.

Don't be childish. Grow up. If you are not humble, the market will humble you.

------
shroom
Novice crypto question... I read a comment here about 1 month ago someone
predicted a correction of BTC value to mind january because some coins would
"expire" then. I'm trying to find the comment now to learn more. Anyone have
any insight what I'm talking about?

~~~
panzerboy
Probably those futures somebody was mentioning in another comment.

------
zerostar07
Coinmarketcap shows prices in USD while most cryptos are trading against BTC,
so what you’re seeing is mainly the drop of BTC against the dollar. Coins are
also dropping against BTC of course, but not all of them, you can see that in
an exchange like binance

~~~
tedeh
The "BTC Dominance" chart from Coinmarketcap sheds light to this:
[https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#dominance-
percentage](https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#dominance-percentage)

It actually shows that Bitcoin has lost a lot of value against altcoins since
the early December top.

------
dmichulke
coinmarketcap doesn't show all the price changes that its API offers.

Here is another view on 1h, 24h and 7d price change of the top 10 coins:

[http://cryptoport.net/sample-portfolio](http://cryptoport.net/sample-
portfolio)

~~~
singularity2001
so much better. to me coinmarketcap is just broken (see below)

------
Theodores
They were, but, in the last few minutes the last hour numbers have all gone
green. They were definitely all red when I checked this half an hour ago.

I think the whole thing is a scam and that it is incredible the willingness of
people to be scammed. Yes I see merit in a decent online currency that works
like cash but securely, however, these crypto things are speculative tulip
stocks in a book-keeper's window and the people that have bought into it are
very much in a cult of their own devising. It is comical. When fools rush in.

~~~
matwood
Not that I think it's a scam, but lets ignore that part for a moment. This
market is a swing traders dream. 40% swings means there is a ton of money to
be gamed off.

~~~
joaomacp
Sure, but also a lot of money to be lost. And you can only lose so much before
you go broke.

------
gkya
How much are cryptocurrencies are used for actual exchange of goods? I.e. for
actual shopping and commerce? Because it seems to me that the most prominent
group of users are investors and miners; i.e. those who only buy, stack and
sell crypto coins, and those who produce them. And I've read here in some past
threads that it's not that easy to liquidify your crypto coins.

------
hsxd
It’s amazing how many people are against crypto currencies for some odd
reason. A correction is being called a collapse, this is just pathetic.

~~~
rplnt
I'm against cryptos in their current form. It was better, and hopefully it
will get better, but now it's a mess. Investors, buzzwords, hype, ...

~~~
hsxd
It will get better, I like to draw parallels to the dotcom bubble–sooner or
later we'll see a real collapse and the coins that are actually worth
something will rise from the dust. Just like how Amazon and eBay did. This
could take a year or three though.

------
ndury
Market is so driven by news which has 0 credible sources it's amazing. I
consider this a sales period as it's just shaking out the weak hands, the ones
that are here for the quick buck. This was dubbed as "Alt coin season sales"
but make no mistake, the tokens which hold no technical value will dissapear.

~~~
singularity2001

       >>  the tokens which hold no technical value will disappear. 
     

You mean ALL of them?

~~~
ndury
What makes you think <ALL> of them have no use case or real life application?
It's ignorant to believe "they will all die" if you ask me.

But yes, 95% of them will slowly go away

------
NEOCEO
Just to clarify the Bloomberg article: OTC/P2P trading is not banned in China,
but match-making services are more similar to a private exchanges. It's those
match-making services that are now being targetted in China. It's about
unlicensed trading, not about blockchain / tokens.

NEO = REGULATION

------
DennisP
I went and looked at the ETH price over the full history in log view. From
that perspective today's move is a typical little jiggle.

[https://imgur.com/13J5kkC](https://imgur.com/13J5kkC)

~~~
em3rgent0rdr
Same with bitcoin in log view.

------
cupofjoakim
It seems impossible to understand the fluctuations of the market as it is now.
Finding no specific article that explains what this could be due to. Should
probably just stick to regular investments.

~~~
rplnt
The market is so small that one or few bigger holders/investors can move with
it significantly.

------
mesozoic
What a wild ride

------
singularity2001
am I in a filter bubble? The OP to me shows bitcoin UP 3% whereas
[https://cryptowat.ch/](https://cryptowat.ch/) shows it DOWN 15%

edit: finally, after 2h delay!

~~~
bhaak
Look at the headers on the OP page. Those are the percentage for 1h, 24h, and
7d changes.

cryptowat.ch only shows the 24 hour change and that matches
coinmarketcap.com's value.

~~~
singularity2001
Bitcoin: % 1h % 24h +0.13% +3.21%

# Name Symbol Market Cap Price Circulating Supply Volume (24h) % 1h % 24h % 7d
1 Bitcoin BTC $237,388,220,556 $14,126.10 16,804,937 $12,931,700,000 0.13%

~~~
bhaak
Caching issue? I can view
[https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/](https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/)
even in elinks and it shows the correct data.

------
thisisit
The strange fascination with cryptocurrency price continues. I wonder if there
should be a rule against posting every other price count on HN.

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
They get buried pretty quickly, so there's already either an explicit or
implicit rule in place.

------
senatorobama
Cheap coinz!

