
Building a startup overseas. An acquisition and 100's of employees later.  - mtjl79
http://blog.tripfab.com/2011/08/23/starting-a-startup-oversees-100s-of-employees-and-millions-later-what-i-can-tell-you/
======
chaostheory
Being from a 3rd world country myself, there are a few important details that
are good to know:

Crime: Most westerners will not be ready for this. There is a much greater
divide between the haves and have nots. Most people get disturbed by child
beggars.

Kidnappings: Since we're on the subject of crime, this is a good topic.
Kidnappings were a common occurrence where I'm from. It's bad enough where you
can't even trust police officers at times. You or your family members will be
in danger of this, and it can cost either a lot of money, a life, or even both
depending on the country. Luckily where I'm from it was well known that
elements in the military were carrying them out, so as long as you paid no one
was harmed or touched; hence the professionalism. Sadly this isn't the case in
most countries (especially in the Americas), where the kidnappers fail to
think about the long term 'repeat business' that comes when you're smart
enough to keep your 'customers' alive.

Food Cleanliness: Hygiene especially around food prep isn't all that great in
the 3rd world. You definitely want to get your shots, but even that's not
enough in some cases. My friend got e-coli from a 4 star hotel. Tip: don't eat
street food unless you like gambling with your health.

Bribes: This is also a way of life. Not going with it can make business much
harder.

I agree with others who feel the article is a bit naive sounding.

~~~
clueless123
Get real! Crime? try getting shot at because you cut off someone on the road.
Food? have you dinned at you typical college campus cafeteria?? cleanliness..
yea right!

* I've lived in the US & in South America for over 20 years..

~~~
chaostheory
> I've lived in the US & in South America for over 20 years..

There are 3rd world countries outside of the Americas.

> Get real! Crime?

One of my really good friends was killed in an open market in Columbia. I've
had two family members who were kidnapped, as well as family friends and
friends who were as well. These are things I don't have to worry about as much
in the US if at all.

That doesn't even count the 'mundane' crime where people just rip out
necklaces from someone you know as they're stepping out of a cab... These are
not things most people, who don't have some connection to a 3rd world country,
are familiar with or in some cases even remotely aware of.

There's also a reason many houses of The Haves in 3rd world countries resemble
fortresses.

It also doesn't help my viewpoint when we go out about town, whenever I go
back home, we need several heavily tinted cars (all with drivers), of which we
only ride in one, while the others serve as decoys.

Given the economy, even places that used to be alright in the 3rd world, are
now becoming dangerous.

> have you dinned at you typical college campus cafeteria??

It may be dirty, but normally you won't end up in the hospital, nor are you
throwing up for a weekend after one meal.

~~~
clueless123
So? you are saying there is no crime in Texas/US/1st world countries ??

~~~
qq66
Your username is particularly appropriate. Of course there is crime
everywhere. There's probably even crime in Antarctica. But it's totally
nonsensical to claim that a place like, say, Johannesburg, is no more
dangerous than Texas.

~~~
chaostheory
I wouldn't be too harsh. The guy/girl probably just has a lot of pride and
love for their country which is understandable. I also doubt that he's lived
in the US or a 1st world country beyond say 1 month, if not at all.

~~~
qq66
I don't think I'm being excessively harsh, because he/she is blustering
inaccurately about something that can be confirmed with a quick Wikipedia
lookup.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)

~~~
clueless123
Ahhh... Wikipedia vs real life experience!

I rest my case.

------
jwingy
I'm currently doing a startup in Singapore and a lot of those points
definitely ring true with my experiences so far (though I've only been here
for about two months).

I would argue two points though:

\- If you're really adventurous and willing to take the plunge, I say you can
do your research, then hop on a plane within two months at the earliest. Of
course it'll be tough, but it'll be tough no matter if you did it later rather
than sooner.

\- While you can build a company for less overseas, one big thing you'll miss
if you decide to really take your business overseas is the nice, large,
homogenous U.S. market. Of course depending on the type of startup, your
target market may not be geographically locked. In Singapore, you'll hear the
phrase "but Singapore's market is so small!" muttered repeatedly. You could
still have a startup that primarily targets the U.S. market, but you can
definitely feel a disconnect that may or may not eventually impact how your
product is marketed.

In the end though, I think what's really great about it is the efficiency of
the experience. Immersing yourself in a new culture while building a startup
will probably be one of the most life experience packed times of your life
where you can grow in so many different ways in such a short amount of time.
Depending on your philosophy on life, there may be nothing more appealing than
this.

------
rickmb
Although I admire the courage, I'm somewhat surprised by some of the almost
naive American viewpoints expressed by the writer. For instance, it's not so
much "extremely difficult to fire someone in Argentina", as it is extremely
easy to fire someone in the US.

And maybe it's just me, but I get a sense of a very patronizing attitude
towards both his employees and other cultures in general. I strongly suspect
the lack of loyalty he experienced isn't just a local cultural thing.

~~~
mtjl79
In my article I was trying to be brief. If it was a book, I surely could have
gotten more in dept so apologize about the lack of "substance" or "passion".
This post is just a quick brief rundown.

Call me anything but patronizing towards my employees and other cultures
please.

I love my employees more than anything else. They are the heart and soul of a
company. My employees love to work with me, love the environment we have, and
truly appreciate the type of company we are and were previously.

And about firing someone - I hire slow and fire fast. That is how I do things.
Firing someone after a month in a place like Argentina can open you up for
lawsuits. And like most Latin American companies the government truly favors
employee rights (which is great) more than I would say the US does. You can
fire someone in Latin America and it isn't uncommon for a pissed off employee
to make up a fake lawsuit, state they made double then they did, say they
worked for you for a year, and be strung along in court.

It's an example. Hasn't happened to me. But I was just stating that fact, as
it is something I wanted to know when I came here or like any business owner
would want to know.

~~~
rmc
_And about firing someone - I hire slow and fire fast. That is how I do
things. Firing someone after a month in a place like Argentina can open you up
for lawsuits._

Many countries have strong labour laws. It's the USA that's odd with it's lack
of paid holiday time, "at will employment", etc. Your way might be to fire
fast, but you must work within the law. You can no more ignore that law in
Argentina, than you can ignore a tax law that you dislike in the USA.

------
ph0rque
_...people who work 80 hours a week not because they have to – but because
they want to_

Ugh, what a turnoff... please keep this (mostly) American silliness from other
countries!

Also, if someone in your company is doing it and is being condoned, it's no
longer a choice for others not to put in at least a little bit over 40 hours.

~~~
mtjl79
I am not saying I condone it, it's just an example of the mentality,
appreciation and willingness that people have and are willing to give you in
return for things like a great American style working environment and company
appreciation.

~~~
typicalrunt
_willing to give you in return for things like a great American style working
environment and company appreciation._

That still sounds very subjective and working environment may not be what
drives people. Also, what is an American-style working environment as compared
to, say, a British or French working environment? I can understand differences
between low/middle/high-income working cultures, but it's tough to paint all
American workers with the same brush.

------
toumhi
I've been traveling and trying to start a few web projects for 5 months in
Southeast Asia, and I'm not considering starting a real startup in a far-away,
3rd world country because:

\- it is very lonely. How do you find like-minded people? How do you find good
co-founders or team members? These things are theoretically possible, but it's
already hard enough in your own country - imagine in a far-flung country where
you don't know anybody.

\- marketing to your own country is tough (because of the distance), marketing
to your country of adoption is tougher. I was thinking of marketing to the US
market because it's simply the biggest and wealthiest, but now I've decided to
target my national market, as I have easier access to people here. Being able
to meet your potential customers is important.

None of these things is impossible, it must be a hell of an experience, and
developers are cheaper, but building a startup is already extremely hard,
building a startup overseas makes it even harder.

------
fun2have
Be very careful of Generalizations. Some have said in the comments that crime
could be an issue. In some countries crime is far worse than the USA, in
others crime is far lower, again in some countries some people are late for
meetings, in others people are early.

It all depends. The only generalization that you can make is that it will be
different. In the other words everywhere has advantages and disadvantages. As
a start up "pilot" you have to maximise the advantages and minimise the
disadvantages.

------
alextp
Also, hiring in third-world countries might be a problem. I'm brazillian, and
unless you're in São Paulo you're likely to find that locals have a different
sense of time, hurry, priorities, and civility. In certain parts of the
country (Salvador, or Rio, for example), you should be ready for everything to
happen at least an hour late, except when it doesn't. People will expect to be
able to be late to meetings and appointments, and will miss deadlines for no
reason.

Another limiting factor is traffic. As an american, you probably love driving,
but here in Brazil (again excepting São Paulo and maybe parts of the south)
long drives should be avoided if at all possible, as highways are full of
potholes or randomly dangerous. Also, most of the economy (and hence good
employees) will be in the big cities, and these have horrible traffic in the
level of London or Manhattan for nothing close to the economic output.

------
rmc
_"You need to find out about businesses laws, labor laws, and residency visas.
For example, in Argentina it’s extremely difficult to fire someone"_

I would imagine stronger labour laws would be the biggest difference for an
American business owner.

~~~
chaostheory
It's not just that. You need to know who to grease and for what. A lot of laws
and red tape are overcome with cash under the table. It's a necessary evil
that's really hard to fight when you consider how horrible and unrealistic
some of the red tape is.

~~~
mtjl79
@Choastheory - You are completely correct. :)

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Killah911
I think the article is a pretty interesting insight. Given that I've actually
been in-between both. I split my time with my overseas team and the US team.
I've learned a lot as well. Definitely more than you can put into a blog, but
some of the points mentioned are priceless. I'm not so sure about making the
move entirely to another country. I'm all about the cost savings, but there's
something to be said for actually knowing contemporaries or talking to
customers/others face to face (probably doesn't apply to everyone, but that's
the main reason I'm still here).

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blakeperdue
A very interesting idea of moving abroad to take advantage of cheaper labor.
But, he suggests taking 9 months of prep time (6 to move there and try it out,
1 to vacation there and think about it, 2 to do research) before even starting
the company in another country.

In that amount of time, you could take a product to market, iterate a few
times, and gain considerable traction. I wouldn't trade that for cheap labor.
As an entrepreneur my most precious asset is time; I can't give up a week much
less 9 months without advancing the company.

~~~
byoung2
_I would highly recommend you move to that country 6 months before you even
think about opening an office or company there. Learn how things work, learn
about the people, and about culture and then you can be ready to start your
company_

He doesn't say you can't start working on your idea. He's just saying you
shouldn't start filling out paperwork or start building out office space. You
can certainly use that time to start working on your idea, especially if the
lower cost of living in another country buys you more time.

------
dperalta
LOL! Its funny to read a post of you saying: "I am from New York...".

— d

