
UK to follow US flight ban on laptops - elthran
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39343971
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HaloZero
I really don't understand why certain airlines (almost exclusively Middle
Eastern based ones) are affected but American and other airlines are not. If
laptops are a risk, what makes someone stop them from taking a United flight
vs Emirates?

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mattnewton
That's the key to understanding this. Makes less and less sense as a security
measure, maybe it makes sense as an economic measure directed at middle
eastern airlines?

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pitt1980
fwiw [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-
africa-35521646](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35521646) a laptop bomb
blew a hole in a Somali plane last year

~~~
mattnewton
That's good to know, but I don't see how this stops them doing it from other
countries? Maybe it is just to make it a little bit harder to do?

~~~
pitt1980
I don't really know,

it might be a function of them having better confidence in the screening of
people on watch lists in other countries

or it might truly be security theater

or maybe it is economically motivated

the people who make these decision are working with non-public data, so its
hard to know

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ouid
To be fair, a laptop battery contains as much energy as a small grenade. I
think the fact that no terrorist organization has exploited this really speaks
volumes of their lack of resources, and the effectiveness of alternative
security measures.

~~~
fredley
Or alternatively the threat of international terrorism has been grossly
overestimated.

~~~
king_magic
I think the threat of domestic terrorism on US flights is probably
overestimated (and I think a lot of domestic TSA is bordering on security
theater), but I don't feel the same flying internationally. I trust everyone
far, far, far less; and for me, I consider the extra security layers a welcome
addition.

~~~
fredley
Statistically speaking, the chance of a terrorist event on an international
flight is much _lower_. The 9/11 flights were all domestic. Humans are
terrible at evaluating risk objectively.

~~~
king_magic
Care to share your statistics? Not saying you're wrong, but since 9/11, I
can't think of a single terrorist incident on an entirely domestic US flight,
whereas I can think of several attempts/successes on international flights.

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colinbartlett
The one and only time I have ever checked a laptop in my bag, it was destroyed
by the TSA. My bag was opened and my carefully packed and padded laptop was
placed on top of my clothes in my soft-sided luggage with a note on top saying
my bag had been inspect. The screen was completely smashed upon arrival.

What are my alternatives now? Can I overnight my laptop via FedEx or
something?

~~~
loeg
> What are my alternatives now?

Buy a hard-sided bag for checking your laptop?

~~~
TezlaKoil
> Buy a hard-sided bag for checking your laptop?

Think before you write?

A hard case makes zero difference (or in some cases actively makes things
worse) if the TSA fails to secure your laptop after inspecting it.

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mdekkers
_US officials said bombs could be hidden in a series of devices._

Bullshit. If an effective explosive could be hidden, they would be banned from
_all_ planes, from _everywhere_ , period. Not in the hold, not in the cabin,
not even anywhere close to an airport. Also, technical staff working on any
airport anywhere would be banned from bringing these devices anywhere airside.

This is such a load of rubbish.

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NamTaf
What stops someone flying via a third country? Am I missing some logic here?

~~~
lb1lf
Why would anyone do that? It would be against the rules. Gotta follow the
rules. /s

On a somewhat serious note - presumably your itinerary would light up like a
Christmas tree somewhere. Unless, of course, you swap identities en route.
That would be against the rules, though.

Also, in fairness, it may be that they have very credible intelligence that
someone is planning mischief using a specific carrier or airport.

~~~
Gys
Direct flights are generally more expensive. So having one or two stops, more
or less on your way, makes perfect sense.

~~~
lb1lf
Ah, mea culpa. I suddenly realized that the ban doesn't affect flights on the
named airlines NOT ending up in the US. D'oh.

However, if I were the TSA and I were serious, I'd just require that you
surrender your laptop at the start of the leg terminating in the US - as you
started off in a place they obviously have a grudge against, &c. (That would
require you to book two separate tickets, if nothing else.)

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peterwwillis
If this was an attempt to avoid large batteries used in attacks, you could
just bring 10 cellphones with you, or have 10 people on the plane bring
several cellphones or something. This is about bureaucrats covering their
asses, not actual safety.

If you think this is somehow a good idea, require your government to mandate
the airlines to provide a reliable, _free_ method to store your electronics
that does not involve paying to check a bag (because you don't have to pay to
bring a laptop today, so there is no reason to gouge customers now). If you
don't demand specific changes they will think you're a push-over and never
change the policies.

~~~
kyriakos
If you go looking for ways there's an infinite number. The problem is where
you draw the line and accept the risk. Banning everything technically is what
makes terrorism effective. The greatest terrorist purpose is for us and our
governments to be afraid of everything and everyone.

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anon23-0895
So does this mean the UK is also racist and fascist or are we allowed to
accept this as a security measure? If its still racist which country adopting
a policy like this will turn it from unacceptable to acceptable.

~~~
fredley
The UK is on the cusp of committing economic suicide, or at least crippling
itself for decades. It needs all the friends it can get. I imagine this is a
measure to cosy up to the US, in full knowledge that it is an unhinged
administration, in the hope of getting a good trade deal out of it once we
cease trading as part of the bloc.

~~~
samdoidge
Far from economic suicide. Based on the trade deficit [1], I doubt the EU can
survive giving the UK a punitive trade deal. This is a great opportunity for
the UK [2].

[1]
[https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/Trade%20deficit%20and%20s...](https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/Trade%20deficit%20and%20surplus%20graph_fIMtaMJ.png)

[2] [https://econsnapshot.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/gdp-us-
eu17...](https://econsnapshot.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/gdp-us-eu17-japan-
brics-2014-11-26.png)

~~~
zzleeper
You are forgetting about shomething important: balance of trade excludes
financials and services, which would probably net out that by a large degree.

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Radle
WHY?

~~~
elthran
I think we have 2 plausible options:

1) UK trying to curry favour with the USG 2) There's some concrete
intelligence here, which is being shared and acted on

~~~
tomtoise
3) as mentioned in the US version of this thread, to make it easier to
intercept and search electronic devices. I'll find a link to the comment.

E. Top comment, that was easy.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919760](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919760)

~~~
arkitaip
Don't you think that odd considering if only affects certain airlines?

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loeg
Is this (well, the US half of this, not the UK adopting it as well) just an
indirect way to enact Trump's "muslim ban" executive order? Make 14hr flights
much more boring and fewer people from the originating countries will fly to
the US?

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adamjc
More countries on this list will follow, it's how these things always start.
Target 'dangerous' countries first, ones that the public won't speak out much
about, then keep adding to it.

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secult
Ban of large electronics in the hand luggage and recommendation to not put
fragile electronics in the checked-in luggage may result in quite unexpected
passenger behavior.

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chinathrow
What is your threat model regarding your laptop when you travel
internationally?

I used to have my laptop with me 100% of the time while travelling by airline
- I guess that will change soon...

~~~
tzs
My guess is that the purpose of this is intelligence gathering (assuming that
it is security related at all, as opposed to being retaliation against unfair
competition by state subsidized airlines as some have speculated). Perhaps
something like this:

1\. Some international criminal group has been under surveillance. Security
agencies know quite a bit more about the group than the group thinks they do.

2\. Security agencies do not have much information on the membership and
organization of the group within the United States.

3\. There is some good reason to believe that the group is about to undertake
some major action, such as a terrorist attack, in the United States, and that
a specific known officer of the organization will be traveling to the US to
direct the attack.

4\. Security agencies want to get some alone time with something that traveler
will take with him when meeting with his comrades in the US, so they can
install spying equipment like a listening device, a tracking device, a key
logger if the device has a keyboard, and so on. They want this so that they
can get information about the organization's US membership.

5\. They don't want to do anything that would tip off the organization that
their officer has been targeted. Hence, they need to cover up doctoring his
electronics by making it appear that it is part of a very broad operation.

This restriction on electronics fits this well. Checked electronics will spend
lots of time away from the owner, giving plenty of time to doctor it.

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no1youknowz
Never mind.

~~~
chinathrow
My guess is that the rest of Europe/EASA will follow the US/UK rules very soon
on this one.

The risk of an in-flight cargo fire went considerably up btw:

[http://avherald.com/h?article=4a67fce7&opt=0](http://avherald.com/h?article=4a67fce7&opt=0)

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RodericDay
It's funny that there's such furor about Russia influencing American policy,
while statements like "Europe will follow the US/UK rules very soon" are just
casual factual commentary.

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chinathrow
It's not a casual factual comment - it is a guess on my end, clearly stated
but you left that out in your quotation.

