
Hyperlocal Mesh Networks - andreyf
http://avc.com/2014/08/hyperlocal-mesh-networks/
======
hristov
They use mostly Ubiquiti radios, antennas, routers and wifi access points.
Ubiquiti Networks is quietly revolutionizing the internet around the world.
They may actually turn the internet into the all-encompassing democratic
communication tool it was supposed to be.

They also use the commotion
([https://commotionwireless.net/](https://commotionwireless.net/)), an open
source software project that runs on commercially available wifi access points
and routers and creates the mesh network.

~~~
d136o
Over the past year or so I have watched from afar as wireless tech is
highlighted sporadically. I have to wonder if it's only comes to my attention
when someone makes a marketing push. I'm not dismissing it as pure hype, as
it's definitely captivating from just an engineering viewpoint. Whether it's
hype or not, this type of cheaper decentralized wireless networking seems very
cool and possibly ripe for motivating new business models. There are a few of
companies (and their founders) making noise and at least one interesting
acquisition not too long ago:

\+ Ubiquiti (founded by Robert J. Pera, hn might appreciate his
entrepreneurial background, look him up) \+ Artemis (founded by Steve Perlman,
another hacker/entrepreneur ) \+ Meraki (aquired by Cisco in late 2012, seems
like this one did actual mesh networking in MIT and SF)

It seems like there is a lot of noise around these wireless technologies, what
is holding back adoption?

~~~
krakensden
If you want fast access to the general internet, mesh networks are never going
to be particularly competitive with telcos. This is what most people want, as
well.

Community networking over community networks could be a thing, but
bootstrapping is hard, and it can be hard to see the point. "Buy this thing
and set it up and you can talk to people within shouting distance with your
pc/phone" isn't super exciting.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
It seems like the problem is that it's easier to make the normal internet
produce the same behavior than to actually make a mesh network fast and
reliable. If all your neighbors have normal internet with NAT-PMP supporting
gateways then you can create a "community network" entirely in software.

Maybe the problem is they're doing it from the wrong angle. Don't create a
mesh network independent of the internet, create a mesh network integrated
with the internet. Then use whichever interface has the best performing route
and use them to back each other. So if your wireless goes down you can still
use Comcast and if your Comcast goes down then you can seamlessly use your
neighbor's Verizon.

------
walterbell
[http://Guifi.net](http://Guifi.net) in Spain has 20K+ nodes in their mesh
network,
[http://rising.globalvoicesonline.org/blog/2013/12/11/guifi-n...](http://rising.globalvoicesonline.org/blog/2013/12/11/guifi-
net-spains-wildly-successful-diy-wireless-network/)

"guifi.net [es] is a user-owned, open and neutral network in which a growing
community of volunteers can connect their computers to form a sort of intranet
and, at the same time, share an Internet connection. The non-profit network is
free, minus any individual costs for networking equipment, and anyone is
allowed to join and use it how they want."

More details:
[https://lists.thefnf.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-March/001672...](https://lists.thefnf.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-March/001672.html)

Edit: may be coming to the US, [https://thefnf.org](https://thefnf.org)

------
deanclatworthy
Every time I see these posts pop up about mesh networking I'm more and more
intrigued of the idea of a local neighbourhood network. I live on a small
island of a few 1000 people. It would be brilliant to extend the sense of
community with basic services like a marketplace, events etc. It kind of
reminds me of using CB radios in the UK in the early 90s, communicating with
local people only.

Is there any defacto hardware out there that one can buy to start the mesh,
without a huge setup, that I could then set up for a couple of neighbours
without hassle who then automatically join the mesh? For something like this
to take off it'll need to be as simple as picking up a router off the shelf
and reading a few lines of a manual.

------
jasonlbaptiste
What are the best resources to learn more about mesh networking? I've been
fascinated with it and trying to soak up as much information as possible.

I'm trying to understand what advances there have been in reduction of speed
over multi hop networks. That's the biggest issue I see, is that people want
high speeds, but mesh networks at a large scale might make that difficult.
Multi-frequency radios can only go so far.

~~~
MichaelAO
Wireless Networking in the Developing World was a good read:
[http://www.wndw.net/](http://www.wndw.net/)

The Free Network Foundation has aggregated a lot of practical info:
[https://commons.thefnf.org/index.php/Portal:Education](https://commons.thefnf.org/index.php/Portal:Education)

A link from the FNF on multi-hop optimization:
[http://researchrepository.murdoch.edu.au/3982/1/Comparison_o...](http://researchrepository.murdoch.edu.au/3982/1/Comparison_of_Routing_Protocols.pdf))

The motherboard documentary about the FNF is a must watch for any mesh network
enthusiast:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx93WJPCCGs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx93WJPCCGs)

------
gordjw
So if mesh networks take off, and replace mobile internet for many people, are
we going to see an increase in satellite and "traditional" mobile networking
(3G, 4G, etc) prices?

How is that going to affect folks outside major metropolitan areas, since
their coverage is effectively subsidised by the volume of city users?

~~~
fleitz
Likely a decrease, 3G is cheap, mesh networks would merely highlight the bad
deal most telcos provide.

------
hoggle
More internet connected local mesh networks like this please! We've got
something similar here in Austria as well -
[http://www.funkfeuer.at](http://www.funkfeuer.at) has been growing constantly
for more than 10 years.

Voice of America article: [http://www.voanews.com/content/austria-programmers-
build-fre...](http://www.voanews.com/content/austria-programmers-build-free-
bridge-to-internet/1499507.html)

"A group of computer programmers and hackers in Austria is creating a low-cost
way of spreading Internet access across communities. _FunkFeuer_ which means
_network fire_ in German, uses everyday technology to create a wireless
network, called a _mesh,_ that can transmit data from person to person,
without involving companies or governments."

------
3rd3
Wasn’t the problem with mesh networks that the amount of meta data needed
eventually becomes too big?

~~~
lazylizard
yah, this is really curious too! i thought the amount of 'mesh' traffic goes
up with the number of mesh nodes..

~~~
peterwwillis
It's not a traffic [bandwidth] problem, really. You have two basic kinds of
wireless mesh networks: infrastructure mesh, and ad-hoc mesh. With the former,
you can design the network so that each directly-connected node has a
dedicated channel and you preserve full bandwidth across the spectrum. You
also have only a few gateway nodes so your network updates are very few. With
the latter you might be using one channel in half duplex to communicate with
whatever nodes are closest to you and propagate joins/parts throughout the
network. That will have less bandwidth and be slower to communicate as you add
nodes, partly due to number of additional hops.

If the number of nodes who deal with routing increases, that's more nodes that
need to be informed of each join/part, so technically it takes longer to
update the network. But if the joins/parts are few and the signal is strong,
this is a rare event. More nodes can make the whole system faster, or it can
make the whole system slower. It depends on the implementation. But there's
not a constant flow of mesh routing data that multiplies with nodes; that
bandwidth used is tiny.

~~~
3rd3
Are the networks you talk about tamper-proof? I vaguely remeber that any
attempts at making ad-hoc mesh network temper-proof didn’t succeed.

~~~
peterwwillis
I've never heard of a tamper-proof network. If you've got a network, I can
tamper with it.

~~~
3rd3
Ok, not proof but reasonably resistant.

------
fiatjaf
Can these mesh networks be easily joined with other mesh networks to build a
global mesh?

------
diafygi
Would pCells work in public spectrum?

~~~
3rd3
> Will it work for WiFi as well? It's protocol agnostic, so it could work in
> unlicensed spectrum as well. The issue is that you don't have complete
> control over all the other transmitters, so you can't coordinate them.

[http://akbars.net/how-steve-perlmans-revolutionary-
wireless-...](http://akbars.net/how-steve-perlmans-revolutionary-wireless-
technology-works-and-why-its-a-bigger-deal-than-anyone-realizes.html)

------
jMyles
I think mesh networking is a hugely important tech.

------
jasonlfunk
From the article:

"Most mesh networks are connected to the public Internet, but if that
connection goes down, the local mesh continues to work. In Red Hook that means
that you could make voice calls (over IP) from your housing project to the
local hardware store to see if its open. Or you could email a friend who lives
in the neighborhood."

I don't know VOIP very well so this may certainly be possible, but I very much
doubt that without an external internet connection you'd be able to email
anyone.

~~~
fleitz
Email works on a single server, it's pretty easy to get an email system
working that doesn't involve the Internet.

~~~
technofiend
It actually works across multiple servers as well and e-mail exchange predates
the "always on" internet everyone's used to. It is feasible RHI is running
their own DNS and if they really want to go old school could always support
UUCP.

