
Apple crushes one-man repair shop in Norway’s Supreme Court - Krasnol
https://repair.eu/news/apple-crushes-one-man-repair-shop/
======
Improvotter
From what I hear, this isn't only about repairing iPhones. In a previous court
proceedings the man was ordered to remove the logos from Apple because he
imported the parts from China to refurbish iPhones. These were not genuine
parts and they were being sold as refurbished iPhones.

This court case bas brought on by Apple because he did not properly remove the
Apple logos. He used a permanent marker to "remove" them from the parts. Apple
did not agree that this was a proper way to do it.

As much as I am for the rights to repair. I would say that Apple has some
grounds here.

~~~
mywacaday
The issue here is that you cannot buy spare parts from apple, imagine if it
was the same for cars and you could only go to s main dealer to replace a
windscreen and if you got a guy in a van to replace it with one from a car no
longer in use that guy gets sued. Ludicrous situation, the availability of
spare parts should be mandatory, especially for high value and high
environmental impact items like the iphone.

~~~
tcbawo
I believe that car manufacturers in the US are required by law to produce
spare parts for 10 years after a model rolls off the assembly line. A similar
law for electronics would be useful, but where do you draw the line? Maybe the
FCC could be setting those guidelines for mobile phones.

~~~
ginko
> A similar law for electronics would be useful, but where do you draw the
> line?

Does there need to be a line? Arguably small custom electronics manufacturers
may not be able to do that, but surely something similar would apply to custom
car makers.

Arguably small electronics manufacturers would have an easier job fulfilling
this since they usually use off-the-shelf parts anyways.

~~~
greedo
I'm pretty sure that Apple doesn't just use off the shelf parts in the iPhone
etc.

~~~
Brian_K_White
"but then where do you draw the line?" wasn't asked out of concern for Apple
or anyone like Apple. They obviously _can_ afford to make their parts
available. You can't draw a line anywhere that would be unsustainable for
them.

The question was asked out of worry that some agressive rule targeted at a big
guy, might have unintended consequences that hurt the little guys.

To which question I agree with "doesn't matter, draw it anywhere and adjust as
needed" because there are easily identifiable reasonable ranges, and not
knowing the final perfect answer is not a good enough excuse for not doing
anything at all, and what we have now is already worse than a line that was
drawn a bit off the mark. Waht we have now is a defacto line drawn 100% off
the MAP.

------
rlpb
> As Huseby puts it, Apple uses copyright law as a “weapon” by putting
> multiple logos and QR-codes on each component part of its screens, knowing
> that the Chinese grey market will not specifically cater to repairers in
> other countries that zealously enforce copyright.

It seems to me that something like the exhaustion doctrine[1] should be made
to apply here (but presumably doesn't in Norway). Once a part is legally sold,
even if as part of a bigger product, IP law should not be able to be used to
prevent the buyer from doing what they want with the part, including using it
in a different product that is then sold as a refurbishment part. The only
exception should be to prevent others from being misled about the origin of
the product; that doesn't appear to have been happening here.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaustion_of_intellectual_pro...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaustion_of_intellectual_property_rights)

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
This is a trademark issue and not copyright. Replacement parts passing
themselves off as genuine OEM shouldn't be tolerated. Markings aren't required
for the electronics to work. They're just there to deceive the consumer.

~~~
rlpb
This isn't passing off. The logo was placed on the part by Apple. The consumer
isn't being deceived; the consumer never even sees the logo! This is discussed
elsewhere here already.

~~~
nojito
How do you know that?

The part was imported into the country.

The customer is 100% being deceived.

~~~
rlpb
Because the article says "...the Oslo District Court ruled in 2018 that Huseby
did not violate Apple’s trademark, because Huseby never claimed to be using
unused original spare parts".

A court found that the customer wasn't being deceived, and this specific
finding has not been overturned on appeal. The issue is about IP rights
unrelated to customer deception.

------
elicash
These were counterfeit parts.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ar2Gxw8mIQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ar2Gxw8mIQ)

You may remember Louis Rossmann testifying in this case. To his credit, he
published this video about the different ways he was wrong. Unfortunately, you
probably didn't see the retraction bc the original testimony got 13x the
views. Not through any fault of Louis, simply due to how things spread online.

~~~
ginko
How is this different of someone fixing a brand name stereo amplifier by
replacing the capacitors or op-amp with some other similarly specced parts?

~~~
cheeze
These parts have Apple logos printed on them

~~~
caf
..and if you fix a Bose amplifier then sell it, it's still going to have a
Bose logo printed on it too.

------
sinak
If you're in the US and agree with Right to Repair, consider joining
Repair.org with an individual membership, or asking your company to join:

[http://repair.org/join](http://repair.org/join)

~~~
kwiens
Absolutely! iFixit is a member and it's amazing how much progress we've made
over the last few years.

------
wearhere
It's crazy to me that the EU is wasting their time making Apple use the same
ports as other smartphones ([https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/02/02/what-
the-eu-manda...](https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/02/02/what-the-eu-
mandate-for-a-common-smartphone-charger-means)) when they could make it easier
to replace _any_ Apple component with an equivalent. I see the other comments
saying that this guy deserved to lose this specific case since he was calling
the parts "refurbished" but it's not clear that there's any way for him to use
aftermarket parts legally.

~~~
jiofih
The parts _are_ refurbished. There are very few iPhone components you can
replace with something not made by Apple.

------
chinhodado
Can someone explain to me what's in this for Apple? Surely the money that they
get from forcing people to go the authorized way isn't that significant to
their bottom line? And it's not like they risk impacting their quality
reputation either since the repair shops don't advertise that they provide
genuine Apple part. So why risk people's goodwill on things like this?

~~~
helldritch
Because they don't want devices to be repaired, they want devices to become
obsolete or irreparable within 5 years so that consumers can buy a new device.

~~~
Delk
I'm not an Apple apologist by any measure, but I don't think that's really
true. At least last time I looked into it, Apple supported their devices with
software updates for longer than the majority of other vendors in the market
(for the majority of their devices at least).

Of course Apple is a company that likes to keep a tight control of their
market and their image, and you could maybe say they go to the point of
control freakiness in that regard. Any potential loss in image regarding the
quality of their products is a significant cost to them; being able to charge
a premium for replacement parts probably doesn't hurt either. If independent
repair shops and consumers lose something in repair costs and freedom, that
probably doesn't tip Apple's scale in any way. For the rest of the society it
could, and if needed, Apple (or any company) needs to be able to be criticized
for that, and legislation needs to cater to that and not to the needs of any
single corporation.

Edit: It might be worth pointing out that while yes, Apple would probably like
you to buy a new phone within five years, e.g. many Android devices aren't
supported for more than a couple of years. I agree you shouldn't necessarily
be forced to buy a new device even every _five_ years, but most other vendors
aren't any better in that regard.

~~~
ClumsyPilot
>Apple supported their devices with software updates for longer than the
majority of other vendors

The situation is exactly the opposite when it comes to computers/laptops. I
can still have latest version of Windows on my father's 2011 laptop.

Secondly, this whole 'loss is image' is a giant smoke screen. Consider that
you can repair a BMW in a random garage with unauthorised parts and
incompetent repairmen - and you might even die as a result. Does BMW's image
suffer? Is their brand worth nothing?

The consumer can comprehend the consequences of repairing his device where he
chooses, this is not medical equipment. Using copyright to restrict repairs is
a bastardisation of copyright law - it's intended purpose is wholly different.

~~~
Delk
I didn't say I agree with preventing unauthorized repairs. I don't, and my
comment wasn't meant as apologetics.

I was merely speculating on why it might make sense for Apple to want that
kind of control _even if it isn 't in the best interests of anybody else_. The
costs to everybody else just have no weight to them, as long as their
customers keep paying, and thus even a small potential matter of image could
weigh more to them. That doesn't mean you, me or anybody else should support
that line of though.

BMW might not mind having that kind of control either if their customers and
the legislation were to put up with it.

Your point about computers is valid.

~~~
ClumsyPilot
Apolliges, i see what you are saying now

------
rpm91
> Apple claimed that Huseby was allegedly importing “counterfeit” iPhone
> screens. Huseby denied this, saying that he simply used refurbished iPhone
> screens that he never advertised to the public as “genuine” parts from
> Apple.

I'm no fan of Apple's crackdown on repairers in general, but this sure sounds
like he had third-party screens that he called "refurbished iPhone screens,"
which sounds pretty misleading to me. If someone told me something was a
"refurbished iPhone screen," my assumption would be that it was originally a
genuine Apple part, and it doesn't sound like that's what he was using.

Just leaving out the word "genuine" doesn't make it not-misleading.

~~~
rlpb
> ...this sure sounds like he had third-party screens that he called
> "refurbished iPhone screens,"

It doesn't sound like that to me at all. From the article I get the impression
he was selling "refurbished iPhones" or offering to "repair your iPhone". In
both of those cases I don't think using non-Apple parts is misleading -
because as the article says "he simply used refurbished iPhone screens that he
never advertised to the public as “genuine” parts from Apple".

------
onetimemanytime
>> _After having paid fees for his appeals, he now faces severe financial
consequences, which include paying his own legal team and €23,000 to Apple._

I guess €23,000 passes for severe in Norway. He's lucky he's not in USA.

The court might have just done its job, as the laws stands Apple wins. The
politicians should pass laws forcing Apple to allow repairs, if they want to
sell iPhones.

------
Ayesh
For the past 5 years, I've been relying on cheap Android mid tier phones. I
currently use a Redmi Note 8 Pro (I bought the first one shipped to my
country) for a little over $250, and I wouldn't feel bad about buying a new
phone if this one breaks. These phones are often made to not be repaired in
the first place. The spare parts are quite difficult to come by because nobody
bothers to even make them. The manufacturer in fact sends a plastic case for
the phone because customers are u likely to find one elsewhere.

Most of the repair shops here (I'm in East Asia now), get broken iPhones, or
higher and lower end Samsung phones. I can understand Apple being constantly
hostile towards the repair shops can easily put customers out of option to
repair their own devices from cheaper places, and the repair shop lot of
business because they simply can't source spare parts.

I think Louis Rossman was very vocal about the issue (a New York based
YouTuber and a repair shop owner), that is probably worth a look.

------
LockAndLol
The article mentions

> We are now holding the European Commission to its commitment to “a Right to
> Repair” in the Circular Economy Action Plan, to ensure universal access to
> affordable genuine spare parts for all electronics for both repair
> professionals and consumers.

Does that mean there's a European Citizens Initiative? A petition? Or what is
this referencing ?

~~~
Delk
[https://ec.europa.eu/environment/circular-
economy/index_en.h...](https://ec.europa.eu/environment/circular-
economy/index_en.htm)

I don't really know how EU policymaking works (although I guess I should, as
I'm a EU citizen), but it seems to be more of a broad but approved plan than
just an initiative or a petition.

------
pieterk
seems like he didn't get the support he needed.
[https://repair.eu/de/news/support-henrik-huseby-in-his-
battl...](https://repair.eu/de/news/support-henrik-huseby-in-his-battle-with-
apple/)

------
karmakaze
Apple, like Disney, are evil (geniuses?)

------
Dahoon
Been at the broken Apple-Glass(tm) enough to know how insane their prices are.
This alone is enough for me to stay away from Apple devices. I used to own
some but now have switched to different bands for every piece of hardware
(Android, Linux and Windows PC's etc). I can't for the life of me understand
how people can support this but I guess it is me living in my hacker/geek
bubble.

~~~
Google234
I imagine you are also confused about why people buy BMWs and Mercedes or shop
at Whole Foods when Walmart has cheaper food.

~~~
encom
But Apple is not a luxury, high performance manufacturer like BMW or Mercedes.

~~~
effie
But people think they are. Why is that? Maybe their devices do have some
genuine selling points?

------
harwoodleon
Counterfeit is 1984 speak for unprofitable.

------
stormdennis
Thank G--gle for Android.

~~~
m0xte
Aye so you can suffer through shitty half arsed third party repairers who
either write your phone off as water damaged even though it wasn’t (thanks
Motorola) or glue it back together because they broke all the clips opening it
(thanks dude down the local repair shop).

~~~
stormdennis
Well I suppose I was thinking more of the fact that my phone cost me about a
third the price of an iphone. A year ago I cracked the screen, I'd driven
several miles when I realised I'd forgotten it, it was when I swung the car
round to go back that I heard it come off the roof. Works fine still. (Little
adhesive card wallet had kept it on the roof) To paraphrase Apple I typed this
message on my Moto g6

~~~
jansan
I you have some time, try replacing the screen yourself. There are tons of
instruction videos (probably also for your model) and a new screen is
surprisingly cheap (for an Android phone).

~~~
stormdennis
I might do, I'm a bit of a bodger though. :) I wrecked our kid's iPhone 5
trying to fix it.

------
adamsea
This is the #1 story on Hacker News? At this moment in time?

Unsure if I should be glad people have a place to escape to and talk about the
banal, or be concerned.

~~~
Delk
Do you mean that everything in the news should be dominated by a single topic?

Not only is it somewhat nearsighted (if perhaps sometimes tempting) to suggest
that _everything_ and everyone should put their focus on a single matter and
stop focusing on anything else, it also leads to people getting weary really
fast.

~~~
adamsea
Depends on the topic and the circumstances of the time, doesn't it?

~~~
Delk
I was assuming you might have referred to the covid-19 epidemic. And if that
were the case then yes, I definitely do think there should also be other
topics at the top. It's not like we're starving for news, or like feeding
ourselves more is going to do much good after a certain point. Too much of it
just becomes noise.

Of course you might be referring to the issues of racism and police brutality.
While those -- especially racism -- are significant matters on the global
scale, the current events are mostly a U.S. thing, and not everyone is
American.

I agree those topics should be getting high visibility regardless, but I don't
necessarily agree with the idea that we should just drop everything else we
were doing and are interested in, or that it would be automatically sad if the
top posts on a tech-oriented international forum don't happen to revolve
around the current hot topic in the U.S.

~~~
adamsea
We could talk about systemic racism in the tech industry ...

And, that's, just like, your opinion, man. Clearly a lot of people all around
the world agree with me that systemic racism is worth discussing, based on the
various protests in Paris, etc.

I certainly am not arguing anyone has to agree with me.

But to deny the validity of the discussion?

~~~
Delk
I'd like you to point out where I denied the validity of "the" discussion, or
any discussion.

I disagreed with the idea that a single topic needs to be always at the top,
or that it's somehow a bad thing if it isn't, or that it should be to the
exclusion of other things. That's not at all the same as denying the validity
of discussion about anything else unless you live in a black and white world.

I literally said "I agree those topics should be getting high visibility
regardless", and now I'm apparently "denying the validity of the discussion".

------
codecamper
Loved my Apple IIc.

Not so much liking the scissors MB Pro keyboard. Enjoying Android. Appreciate
being able to add an sdcard. I think Lenovo will be my next laptop.

~~~
jessaustin
Yeah, this is the rational reaction to Apple's customer hostility. Just stop
being a customer. Problem solved!

~~~
saagarjha
If it brings you any delight, I screenshotted that comment along with the
article title and sent it to a friend as "hacker news dot png" since picking a
keyword from the article title and posting a prepared comment about it is such
a quintessential Hacker News quirk.

