
Google and ProPublica team up to build a national hate crime database - mcone
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/18/google-documenting-hate-news-index-propublica/
======
chroem-
I'm about as far left as they come, like campaigning for Sanders left, but I
have some serious concerns about this.

There has been a serious effort to label everyone that disagrees with Israel's
growing apartheid policies toward the Palestinian people as antisemitic hate
criminals. I worry that this sort of corporate vigilanteism is going to make
it effectively illegal to disagree with the narratives sponsored by the
wealthiest members of our society.

~~~
gremlinsinc
Lefty here too (So left I wrote Bernie in, hoping Trump would win just to
stick it to the DNC) - and not sad I did, because the Rep. party is literally
in a suicide spiral off Trump tower...

I'm totally totally appalled..by Saturday's events..and part of me rejoices at
Cloudflare/Google/Godaddy fighting Nazi's... but a part of me - the
techy/privacy part is screaming MY GOD WHAT Are we Letting them do in the name
of 'Anti-Hate' \-- giving everyone a label, or making them fit in a box is a
scary precipice to go over.

I hope and pray we can find better ways to combat the hate, I think the
leaders at google are well meaning in this, but this screams to me that
something bigger and deadlier could be unleashed as a result. We need to be
REALLY careful how we start self-policing the internet.

~~~
hfourm
One thing a co-worker brought up recently is how terrifyingly "mob" like the
online sphere has become. From twitter to facebook to etc. Media is now
reactionary to what people want, and they can tell what people want by
"trending topics", which are essentially the wills of a mob.

I could expand but I think this gets the gist of my fears out there.

------
superobserver
Google engaged in blacklisting people for something as vague as "hate crime"
(when not crimes) is as Orwellian as it gets. Then again, as long as Antifa,
BLM, KKK, Neo-Nazi, etc. persons convicted of real crimes are fairly and
equally represented, perhaps we'll see real movement to shut this nonsense
down.

------
freedomben
I detest the surge in (at least visible) racism as of late, but as a liberal
this terrifies me. The idea that an organization (particularly one that is
driven by corporate interests and has serious problems with diversity) is able
and willing to impose its will like this against others is concerning.

This is one of those hard things, because I don't fear what it currently is,
or what the intentions are, but I do fear what it can become. Definitions of
things change over time, and what is considered a "hate crime" can and will
change. This could easily become a tool for the enforcement of political
correctness (and I don't mean that the way the alt-right likes to define it. I
mean the traditional definition, that being politically correct means you
agree with those in power).

And what of somebody falsely accused or convicted? We know the police can be
crooked and that courts can make mistakes. Are we to ruin someone's life
and/or reputation because of that? Must they beg and sacrifice at the altar of
Google to clear their name?

~~~
ucaetano
Check the actual project, it has nothing to do with what you're talking. It is
just an index of news articles talking about hate crime.

> This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes
> and bias incidents.

~~~
freedomben
I did read the article. Perhaps you missed this part:

> “In this case, it helps reporters by digging out locations, names and other
> useful data from the 3,000-plus news reports

~~~
ucaetano
And? Again, it only lists media articles about hate crimes and bias.

~~~
the_d00d
It's fine to disagree, but I just don't understand what you aren't
understanding about his concerns.

He doesn't like the idea of this list being made. Is that not enough?

~~~
devindotcom
I think it's that "the idea that an organization is able and willing to impose
its will like this against others" is a total misrepresentation of what the
project is.

------
alecco
Not even pretending anymore, Google?

> ProPublica was the brainchild of billionaires and major Democratic donors
> Herbert and Marion Sandler, the former chief executives of the Golden West
> Financial Corporation, who have committed $10 million a year to the project

~~~
amputect
I encourage you to look at the full list of partners, this isn't "google and
one liberal rag" it's "google and a ton of major journalism outlets and
universities", and it's worth evaluating through that lens.

I am cautiously optimistic that they might be able to accomplish something
good here and create a more data-driven analysis of something that's a hot-
button, highly emotionally charged topic right now.

~~~
protomyth
"google and a ton of major journalism outlets and universities"

Can you point to the known conservative group in that mix?

~~~
protomyth
The group reported at [1] is _The ProPublica-led coalition includes The Google
News Lab, Univision News, the New York Times, WNYC, BuzzFeed News, First
Draft, Meedan, New America Media, The Root, Latino USA, The Advocate, 100 Days
in Appalachia and Ushahidi. The coalition is also working with civil-rights
groups such as the Southern Poverty Law Center, and schools such as the
University of Miami School of Communications._

1) [https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2017/08/19/propublica-
working-...](https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2017/08/19/propublica-working-
google-document-hate-threatens-conservative-bloggers/)

------
devindotcom
Like police shootings and acts of force, hate crimes are growing in number and
visibility but are inconsistently reported. An independent database seems like
a great idea. I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that this is
going to be some Google-run thoughtcrime outfit. It's news organizations and
universities sharing data, Google is on algo support.

Full list of partners here:

[https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/hatecrimes](https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/hatecrimes)

------
ucaetano
For those who didn't read the article, the project doesn't try to define hate
crimes, just surface media reports about hate crimes:

> This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes
> and bias incidents.

~~~
wongarsu
>The Hate News Index will keep an eye out for false positives

finding false positives means eventually you have to decide what you consider
a hate crime

~~~
ucaetano
You missed the example of the false positive:

> (casual uses of the word “hate” for example)

------
oval-atom
1984: Government's Attempt to Control The Mind and Bodies of Its Citizens

The novel Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell is an American classic which
explores the human mind when it comes to power, corruption, control, and the
ultimate utopian society. Orwell indirectly proposes that power given to the
government will ultimately become corrupt and they will attempt to force all
to conform to their one set standard. He also sets forth the idea that the
corrupted government will attempt to destroy any and all mental and physical
opposition to their beliefs, thus eliminating any opportunity for achieving an
utopian society.

I guess Mr Orwell got it wrong, it won't be the government. Google has already
shown it's belief in "Diversity", but only how they define it, as experienced
by the engineer they just booted.

Google, FaceBook, Apple, Twitter, and Microsoft will be controlling all the
information. Don't be surprised if you see only what they want you to see.

People worry about the NSA invading your private life, the NSA drools about
the data these Techno Giants already have. And of course they put on this
glorified act of denial when the government requests information.

Yet people worry about who will police what these government entities are
doing, so who is going to police these Techno Giants? Remember, these
companies are in for the money and all that that comes with it.

Zuckerberg wants everyone to have a Basic Income, who is going to pay for
that? But it is one way to buy votes. It sounds like just another welfare
program.

Welfare is destroying this country, as it is today. It destroys incentive and
when that happens, the mind becomes worthless.

I tend to go along with Thomas Sowell.
[https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/thomas-
sowe...](https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/thomas-sowell-
explains-how-the-welfare-state-hurts-the-poor/)

[https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/instead-
of-...](https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/instead-of-ending-
poverty-big-government-subsidizes-dependency/)

The ideology of the Techno Giants, "Your Life Belongs to US"

~~~
prewett
George Orwell was British not American...

~~~
oval-atom
But government is government, hope you got the rest of them.

~~~
klez
I think prewett is disagreeing with this

> The novel Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell is an American classic

------
0x4f3759df
I guess they will start choking off more web activity from their political
enemies.

------
freedomben
Don't worry, I'm sure James Damore won't show up on this list.

------
sysdyne
What's with this dystopian news I'm reading more everyday? "This page lists
media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias
incidents." No doubt containing personal names and being combined with
Google's algorithms. What could possibly go wrong?

------
notananthem
This is great, southern poverty law center already does this well though

~~~
Inconel
I think reasonable people can disagree on how well the SPLC does this
considering their including of Maajid Nawaz among their list of anti-Muslim
extremists.

Edit: To clarify, I understand that you were referencing their hate crimes
database and that I brought up their list of people they label as extremists,
and while the two things aren't the same, my point was to highlight that not
everyone sees the SPLC as infallible.

------
gleglegle
This is excellent news!

~~~
superobserver
Sure, if you like living in a nanny-police state. A lot more than the 1st
amendment is under threat for the grossly staged violence perpetrated upon
American society in recent days.

Ref.: [http://stevepieczenik.com/charlottesville-staged-
confrontati...](http://stevepieczenik.com/charlottesville-staged-
confrontation)

~~~
krapp
Oh, look. Someone believes the latest act of right-wing violence was really a
false-flag operation by leftists coordinating with the CIA, and that Pizzagate
was actually a thing.

What crazy kooky outside-the-box reporting that is, which means it must be
true I guess.

~~~
superobserver
Pizzagate is a distraction manufactured by the the mainstream media. Hardly
surprising someone with your false and dismissive opinion would bring it up.
How is this obvious? Because the media focused on one pizza joint when there
are extensive documented cases of pedophilia and child sex trafficking taking
place. Heard of Haiti and the Clinton Foundation? Get informed.

------
alecco
#3 14 points/26m Google and ProPublica team up to build a national hate crime
database

#6 105 points/1h YouTube admits 'wrong call' over deletion of Syrian war crime
videos

Yeah, perfectly explainable. Like every other time.

~~~
Jaruzel
If you are talking about post position on the Front Page, then it's stated
somewhere (the FAQ?) that HN mods and admins can 'insert' a story anywhere on
the front page if they feel it needs more attention than it's getting.

Personally, I'm not a fan of that (feels a bit /. under DICE for my liking) -
but I'm just a freeloader here, like the rest of us.

~~~
alecco
In the Google Memo debacle they kept saying they did not intervene in favor of
Google. That it was just the flagging of users what drove the stories out of
the home page. A story with 1600 points could only be reached via Algolia or
comments section.

------
yahna
> Antifa, BLM, KKK, Neo-Nazi

2 of these things are not like the others. 2 of these things just don't
belong.

edit: yay downvotes from people who can't mention nazis without whataboutism.

~~~
Danihan
In the videos I saw, Antifa and BLM were stalking (and eventually hitting)
people in Charlottesville with bats.

In Berkeley, they beat several people unconscious, and that was just over a
speaker who they didn't like.

That's crossing some serious lines, whether you find it justifiable or not.

~~~
willstrafach
> In the videos I saw

These don't seem to be very easy to find. Can you link some examples?
(Honestly asking).

~~~
Danihan
It's hard finding a video without slanted commentary, but this should give you
an impression of what I mean.

[https://streamable.com/svxcr](https://streamable.com/svxcr)

------
urda
I'm terrified at seeing the positive "great idea!" and "good job google"
comments here. This type of database, or collection of persons can (and most
likely will) be wielded in an unfair and unjust manner. This isn't Google's
job to handle at all.

HN readers, sure Google is on your side today but that might not be the case
tomorrow. Any sane person can see why this is an awful idea.

------
nkkollaw
Sounds like positive news because it's totally crazy to see somebody—specially
if not even German—waving a Nazi flag like it's something to be proud of.

However, I wonder if this promotes hate towards the haters (probably a dumb
thought)..? Who gets to decide who the bad guys are and what a hate crime
is..?

~~~
alecco
Of course. I'd even agree up to a point the extremist intolerants should not
be allowed (be it nazis, fascists, maoist, communists, or religious
extremists). But it looks very wrong to put this in the hands of a mega-
corporation with political interests. They are a virtual monopoly on search
and videos.

I wonder what would the EFF would say about this.

We've been on this road before. Under the pretense of terrorism threats
individual rights were eroded on a massive scale. And Google was part of it,
either actively or with willful ignorance (e.g. not encrypting internal links
so NSA could easily tap).

Who are they to decide what is a hate crime? In Canada it's a hate crime to
refuse to use on of a dozen gender pronouns for "non-binary" people.

~~~
yahna
> In Canada it's a hate crime to refuse to use on of a dozen gender pronouns
> for "non-binary" people

No it's not. Listen to a lawyer or actual expert instead of a psych professor
with a chip on his shoulder.

~~~
alecco
Canadian Department of Justice website. [http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-
sjc/pl/identity-identite/fa...](http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-
sjc/pl/identity-identite/faq.html)

> With very few exceptions, grounds of discrimination are not defined in
> legislation but are left to courts, tribunals, and commissions to interpret
> and explain, based on their detailed experience with particular cases.

Yeah, vague wording would surely work out if it's a hate crime or not. This is
ridiculous. Laws should be clear. The majority of Canadian judges are quite
left-liberals.

~~~
yahna
> The majority of Canadian judges are quite left-liberals.

Good.

