
Ask HN: What to do when co-workers don't aspire beyond getting their paychecks? - imalolz
I have a really comfortable web development job, albeit not very exciting, at a medium sized software company. That's why, like most people who probably read this and similar sites, I try to evolve professionally in my free time - read technical books, blogs, pick up languages, etc. I consider myself good at my job, and average compared to the industry. I constantly run into articles where people praise their co-workers, regale on how exciting their job is and how much they learn every day...
I find that almost everyone I work with (company of +50 people) just comes to work to punch a ticket, go home, repeat. This is not an "old" company (avg. age &#60;35), yet people are satisfied with what they picked up so far, and don't feel the need to grow as a professional. When I mention things like github, Erlang or HN, for example, I get vague stares - nobody's heard of them. I understand people have families and non-work related hobbies (I do too - a lot), but for me coming to work just to pass 8-10 daily hours in closing bugs, adding features and resolving tickets is just dull. Yeah, I get it, that's what work is all about.
Don't get me wrong - these guys are good in what they do (mostly C/C++ Devs), but I've got nothing to learn from them, nothing interesting to chat about (I don't consider diaper changing talks exciting) and I keep fighting through the day to make work interesting by coming up with new solutions to old problems (a cliché, I know, but this is really what I do). Even my team members/boss who do web-development aren't different than the rest (a bit worse, actually).
On the plus side, the salary and benefits where I work are great. I have a baby on the way and an unemployed wife, so I can't really afford to be cavalier on job search at the moment. Maybe I'm just selling out, and this is definitely a vent post, but does anyone here feels the same at their current job, and if so - what do you do?
Also, I live and work outside the US, if it makes a difference.
======
edw519
I have been in your situation many times and have felt the same way; welcome
to the rest of the world.

Face it, those of us who are uncomfortable with the status quo and want more
than the masses are outliers. This is a good thing! Here's what has worked for
me...

Rising out of the ordinary and getting ahead is all about _demand_ , not
_supply_.

Supply: You can read all the blogs you want, read technical books, and study
new languages and so what? You are supplying yourself with things that may or
may not make any difference and no one else cares.

Demand: Find out what needs are not being met at your company. You can easily
do this all the time without even being noticed, "under the radar" as they
say. (You don't have to go to your boss looking for something.) They are
desperate needs not being met everywhere; all you have to do is look. It may
be a user, a customer, a way of doing business. Then fill that need. It's that
simple. You will force yourself to learn whatever you have to to get that job
done. Then do it again. And again. Before you know it, people will
automatically know to come to you when nothing else works.

Business is about getting things done. Learn how to do that whether it's
officially sanctioned or not. You will quickly rise above the masses and your
life will never be the same.

A few notes:

1\. Most people won't even realize what you're doing. For those that do, most
will approve. For those that don't approve, ignore them.

2\. With this approach, you will optimize your learning. You will learn what
is needed, not what you think is cool.

3\. You will become much more valuable for 2 reasons: you will expand your
skill set and you will convert yourself from a doer to an achiever. The
difference is subtle but huge.

~~~
photon_off
Absolutely great advice here. Except for one problem:

"Before you know it, people will automatically know to come to you when
nothing else works."

And then what? Ask for a raise? In the environment he is describing, it is
likely his extra effort will not go unnoticed, but rather, unrewarded. What's
worse, this extra effort may even become expected of him, without his
receiving any additional compensation besides making his boss look good.

While I do find great satisfaction in making myself indispensable and
particularly useful, and in the whole process of learning and implementing new
things, I also find extreme irritation if it only works to set a new standard
for what's expected of me. That's just my personal experience and personality.
Perhaps there are more altruistic types that enjoy feeling like a more
efficient cog, but for me, it sucks to feel like a cog at all.

That's not to say all is lost. Certainly being an achiever and an innovator
are awesome qualities. Think of your current job as a framework to discover
and deploy these things. I neglected to do this at my last job, but keep a
list of _all_ of the projects you took the initiative on, what new skills you
had to acquire to achieve them, and the net benefit to the company. Myself, I
always figured I'd remember all the awesome additional effort / personal
touches I put on things, but I didn't, and for me, interview season is right
around the corner.

Bottom line, if you're not progressing and learning from your coworkers on a
regular basis, it's time to look for new options. In the meantime, give your
best effort and take note of your triumphs.

~~~
timwiseman
You are concerned that "The reward for good work is more work"?

I must respectfully beg to differ. First, it may come with time rather than
immediately, but such things often are the path to raises and promotions.
Nothing in his original post would indicate it was not so at his company.

Now, if he really feels he has hit a ceiling at his company, that for whatever
reason (politics, no room to move up, etc, etc) he really cannot get a raise
or promotion there then he may want to think about leaving. But if he leaves
just because most of his coworkers are 9-5 dayjob types then he is likely to
be disappointed to find that it is the same in _most_ other places.

If he really wants to be challenged by his coworkers and his environment is
bothering him, then he needs to leave but he needs to look in very specific
places to find that type of environment. He should look at start ups or
research labs that are on the bleeding edge.

Otherwise, he should look to himself to find his own challenges and grow in
his own ways, hopefully with a community outside of work to help him do that.

~~~
Freebytes
I agree with you and must add that if someone truly enjoys their job, more
work is not an issue. Often, an employee that enjoys their job (truly enjoys
it not merely saying they do) will welcome more work as long as it continues
to challenge them and test their limits. If you did something mundane such as
answering technical support telephone calls all day, for example, and you
found that you enjoyed it, you might push yourself to answer as many calls per
day as possible. The higher your numbers, the greater your pride in your work.
On the other hand, if you only received two telephone calls per hour and spend
the remainder of your time sitting around, every telephone call that arrived
would interrupt your 'waste of time', and you would begin to hate it.
Sometimes more work can be a blessing.

------
yan
Software engineering, just like other jobs and vocations, are just that to
most people: jobs. You will always have some small minority of people that are
going out of their way to attend user groups, seek out communities and
contribute, but the majority are just looking to take home a paycheck so they
can do other things. I'm sure you've encountered this when in school and I
don't think this is any different in the US.

Stop trying to change, or more importantly, judge, people who just don't care.
If it's just a job to them, that's fine. Changing diapers is much more
immediate to them then github.

If you feel stifled, seek out user groups in your area, spend more time
learning on your own and stay active online. Not much else you can do.

~~~
imalolz
I appreciate the candor. If my post suggested that I'm judging people, it was
not my intention. I respect people's choices and appreciate that others have
priorities different than my own. My goal was to seek ideas as for coping with
my need to improve myself, not push others to fall in line. Your idea of local
user groups is good, and I'll probably look into it.

------
jasonkester
You might want to try it from the other side for a while. It can actually be
quite nice to have a job that does nothing other than provide money to pursue
your true passions.

For most of my 20's, my life revolved entirely around rock climbing. 4 nights
a week in the gym, and a roadtrip every weekend. Vacation time saved up (and
exceeded) for trips to Europe, Asia and the Desert Southwest in search of good
rock and good times. My friends were all doing the same thing, and those were
actually some of the best years of my life.

Now, I'd deeply into building software products to maximize my free time. Not
surprisingly, the skills I'm using today are the ones I picked up during those
years of paying the bills. The outside pursuits are still a major part of my
life (I'm typing this from the climbing mecca of Kalymnos, Greece), but now I
have several months a year to pursue them instead of just a few weeks.

So maybe you should take another look at those guys. They just might be
leading interesting lives while you're not looking.

~~~
wushupork
I can related to that experience. For a significant part of my professional
life, my day job was there to provide a paycheck to feed my addiction/passion
to the martial arts. At 5 o clock I was out the door and for the next 3 hours
it would be martial arts training and conditioning. I would train and compete
and travel for competition. Work was just work and a paycheck so I could do
what I really wanted. Although I did enjoy software development, it was
strictly only at work.

At the time I would look at people who only had their career and career
related activities and friends to be missing out on more interesting pursuits.

------
petervandijck
Not to worry, diaper change discussions will soon enough turn from quite
boring to utterly _fascinating_ , believe me. (Then they go back to boring
again.)

Meanwhile, get all the sleep you can (with that kid on the way), do NOT start
a startup now (with a kid on the way), but start job hunting on the side for
something you like better.

------
lusis
I feel you. I actually have two kids now and am just getting back into the
side-project thing. Others are right. Just plan on not getting much done for
the next 4-6 months. Seriously. Focus on your family.

As to the coworker issue, realize that you'll be having those "diaper-
changing" discussions soon enough. It's actually quite refreshing.

As to self-betterment I'm in TOTAL agreement. I don't typically stay with a
company where I'm not challenged intellectually. There are two things that
facter into my place to work:

* Quality of Life * Professional Development

Salary is really a non issue at this point. I've taken positions where I've
made less or lateral moves just because of an increase in quality of life and
working with smart people. Unfortunately, now is not the time for you to be
making that move. Focus on your family. When your spawn is about 6 months,
most of the big issues (like possible cholic and weird sleep patterns) will
have passed. You'll have to deal with teething but each iteration gets easier
for the kid.

If you plan on having a second kid, talk with your wife about planning that
around your entreprenureal goals. In our case we ended up having our second
when our first was 21 months old. Now that he's 6 months old, I actually have
free time again to work on side projects after hours. Just realize that unless
you have local family support, two young children are very difficult for one
person to manage.

------
leftnode
It's hard for non-entrepreneurial types to understand, but some people are
just satisfied with having a huge disconnect with their work and life.

For a long time, it upset me to see my intelligent friends do this. They
couldn't wait to get out of college, get a job with a big company, put in
their workweek, and that's that. No desire to do a startup, and learned what
they needed for the job.

It's just what it is, there's no reason to fight it, just understand that
sometimes having that huge disconnect between work and life is optimal for
them.

~~~
joshuacc
"but some people are just satisfied with having a huge disconnect with their
work and life."

While true, I think "disconnect" has unnecessarily negative connotations. You
could equally say, "some people are happy when work doesn't dominate their
whole life." Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on what you want out
of life and what you want out of your work.

------
PaulJoslin
Hi, I was in your situation recently. I felt I was not getting exposure to
exciting technology or projects. I often learn things in my spare time, but
wanted to apply it on the job. I spoke to my manager and now I'm working on
some great new projects, using great new technologies and learning a lot more.

The point I'm trying to make is, speak to your boss and explain how you feel.
They can try to change things to suit how you would like to work.

Ultimately I'd like to be working for a start up, but deep down I know I'd be
frustrated unless it was my own start up - so I plan to work, build up money
from the job (while bootstrapping ideas / learning new tech / reading great
info) then launch my own startup in a coworking hub where I can speak with
like minded people daily.

------
vittea
I was in a similar position up until a few months ago. It wasn't lack of
interest on part of other devs, quite the opposite: everyone was just too
eager to incorporate new things into the codebase and prove their ideas were
the best. It was almost like the wild wild west where anybody could push
anything to the codebase and the inexperienced management was excited at the
prospect of a cutting edge product.

What happened was quite the opposite: the codebase was very inconsistent and
there were lots of parts nobody understood. All these conflicts and lack of
integration also lead to a lot of bugs which management thought were just part
of software engineering. Micromanagement was also rampant and caused
significant mental stress.

What I am trying to get across is that having overly enthusiastic co-workers
is not always a good thing either (the grass is always greener on the other
side.) Don't listen too much to what other people are saying about their jobs.
Try to figure out what you are missing (I was missing the need to be part of a
community and do innovative stuff) and try to find a way to get that (I got
involved in an open-source project where I found I could contribute and be
part of the community and do good things.) If you do good things long enough,
you will be noticed and eventually land one of those rare jobs where you are
paid to do what you love (gotta put in the wood before you can get heat from
the fire)

------
ollerac
John Kotter wrote a book called Leading Change -- it's all about getting
people to break out of the status quo one step at a time.

You can find the book here: [http://www.amazon.com/Leading-Change-John-P-
Kotter/dp/087584...](http://www.amazon.com/Leading-Change-John-P-
Kotter/dp/0875847471/)

And he has a blog here: <http://blogs.hbr.org/kotter/>

------
MrFoof
> _Maybe I'm just selling out, and this is definitely a vent post, but does
> anyone here feels the same at their current job, and if so - what do you
> do?_

I did... 12 days ago.

I had numerous discussions with my manager (even a few partners) over 6 months
who ignored them, under the fear that the CTO would attempt to stick me in
another group (which would cause some partners to raise hell), because any
other group would welcome me with open arms. Knowing this, and that I probably
had no real way out of the group I was in, I did the only thing that made
sense to me:

I quit.

 _I would not recommend this course of action considering your other
obligations_ , but ultimately, it's probably the solution that will work best
for you. You need to find people who are passionate about their work as you
are, as they're the group you'll best be happy working with. The only
difference is you should ensure for a smooth transition with no breaks in
income, instead of the route I took (which I'll admit, was a dick move at the
time).

------
mistermann
Uninterested coworkers seems to be the standard 90% of the time where I go. An
even worse situation I've found is having an outside consultant with supreme
confidence come in and start "educating" you, telling you how things should be
done, but unable/unwilling/uninterested to defend his assertions when you show
him simple examples proving him incorrect....and he seems to be totally
incapable of recognizing his shortcomings.

Add to this, no knowledge whatsoever of sites like hacker news, stackoverflow,
etc, and a home development machine that is too slow to run Visual Studio. But
of course, the air of confidence (due to his own ignorance) earns him
immediate respect from management. Now that is a depressing situation.

Knowledge of the existence of stackoverflow is now my ultimate litmus test, I
try to sneak it into the conversation as soon as possible - if the person has
never heard of it, that's a pretty good indicator of how much of the say is
hot air.

~~~
frou_dh
Not sure I agree with the stackoverflow test. Good knowledge & practices
picked up before and during stackoverflow's existence aren't invalidated by
not following certain online communities or the Atwood train. The test is
probably more applicable if they are younger and/or work in a popular space.

------
runjake
Here's my half-assed attempts at formatting: for readability

\---

I have a really comfortable web development job, albeit not very exciting, at
a medium sized software company. That's why, like most people who probably
read this and similar sites, I try to evolve professionally in my free time -
read technical books, blogs, pick up languages, etc.

I consider myself good at my job, and average compared to the industry. I
constantly run into articles where people praise their co-workers, regale on
how exciting their job is and how much they learn every day... I find that
almost everyone I work with (company of +50 people) just comes to work to
punch a ticket, go home, repeat. This is not an "old" company (avg. age <35),
yet people are satisfied with what they picked up so far, and don't feel the
need to grow as a professional.

When I mention things like github, Erlang or HN, for example, I get vague
stares - nobody's heard of them. I understand people have families and non-
work related hobbies (I do too - a lot), but for me coming to work just to
pass 8-10 daily hours in closing bugs, adding features and resolving tickets
is just dull.

Yeah, I get it, that's what work is all about. Don't get me wrong - these guys
are good in what they do (mostly C/C++ Devs), but I've got nothing to learn
from them, nothing interesting to chat about (I don't consider diaper changing
talks exciting) and I keep fighting through the day to make work interesting
by coming up with new solutions to old problems (a cliché, I know, but this is
really what I do). Even my team members/boss who do web-development aren't
different than the rest (a bit worse, actually). On the plus side, the salary
and benefits where I work are great.

I have a baby on the way and an unemployed wife, so I can't really afford to
be cavalier on job search at the moment.

Maybe I'm just selling out, and this is definitely a vent post, but does
anyone here feels the same at their current job, and if so - what do you do?

Also, I live and work outside the US, if it makes a difference.

\---

~~~
imalolz
thanks for that, it's my first post here and so I haven't toyed with the
formatting specifics enough to master.

------
pshapiro
Sometimes I feel like that. I mean, after all, I am working my day job to make
money as a first priority, in order to take care of myself and my life. If I
were able to do what I wanted purely without a need to make money I probably
wouldn't be working where I am. That's not to say it isn't often fun and
engaging to work on iOS, web, and business development with a team of people
who are great at it. The developers on the team all seem interested in
learning more, like you, and I don't get blank stares when I mention github,
but I used to get blank stares when I talked about things like the Earth's
environment, physics, and the way that the world works. Gradually, with
patient persistence over a few years, as I shared some good problems of why it
is important through whatever appropriate opportunity it was, they began to
realize. Now I don't get only blank stares and mocking smalltalk, but there
are some questions that they ask me about them and I can show them things
through the questions they have.

Anyway, we are a small development firm that works with design partners and
other clients, we build software for them, and we have a CMS platform that we
tailor to their needs too. This is a big reason why the environment at my
office is different than yours (we have a team of about 8 right now). Each
person has to pull his weight for things to turn out well and we each
recognize it, so many of us try to get to the level of expert in our own
specialties. If expertise is recognized or rewarded then it provides an
incentive to for self cultivation.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the specific area of software development
your group works in?

~~~
imalolz
I actually do stuff that's quite similar to what you do. The specifics could
be boiled down to plenty of mundane web development with ruby, python, js and
mysql... like most people here :)

------
momotomo
I'd stop looking over the fence. If they are blocking your work or career
progress, then they matter, otherwise focus on your own career, goals and
lifestyle requirements.

It can be hard if you don't feel engaged with your co-workers but it happens.
Set your goals and areas of ownership, develop yourself to support them and
start pushing to see if you can progress your career. If they aren't a good
baseline to compete with, you have to make your own structure.

If you have a baby on the way pretty soon you'll be in coast mode anyhow (I
mean this - if you're still working, some days you'll barely have the energy
to focus on your inbox, let alone productive work)

After this stage in your life, re-assess. Maybe your work / life balance is
different, maybe you'll be more risk tolerant and change jobs / roles, maybe
you'll just be happy. Mostly choice, and hard work.

In regards to the after hours stuff, it's doable as well. It sounds crazy to
try and launch a whole side project until you actually do it (even with a baby
on board). I noticed you knocked back a suggestion to do an off hours project
/ startup before, don't rush to close the idea off.

To give context: professionally I put in about 47-60 hours a week depending on
what's on, and I brick in every single free hour around that (as stamina and
life allows) on side projects. Before I started doing that, I said it couldn't
be done, and would park my ass watching TV or generally doing nothing instead.

Figure out what you want, don't measure yourself on others, and go for it. =)
If it's what you have now, there's nothing wrong with that.

~~~
imalolz
solid advice. I'm actually working on side projects all the time, just have
nothing to show for it yet. thanks.

~~~
momotomo
I had a similar issue - the sensation that I had nothing to "show" for all the
time invested. This will kill you. It's really important to do a few things at
this point:

\- Catalogue what you've actually accomplished in terms of stuff created /
learned / produced

\- Hack it all up into "stuff I will use", "stuff I will reference" and "stuff
I will archive"

\- Set some hard lines and hard times against deliverables with actual
boundaries / units of work - what will you finish, by what date, where does it
fit, what's the next stage?

Finally, and the biggest thing for me was: if you can hardline at work, be a
professional and produce lots of good stuff on a dealine (assuming you do),
you can do that for yourself as well.

Sometimes (as a non-startup type guy) I found it easy to go to work, push past
pain barriers, bust serious ass and make some pretty incredible stuff happen,
then come home and have a completely different - lazy and shabby - attitude.

As soon as I decided to carry that attitude towards my own goals / projects,
it turned a lot of stuff around. I had two or three projects that were half
parked for nearly 8 months that I set completion goals for and cleaned up in
about 2 months.

Felt great, and made me realise how much you can actually produce when you
have a clear idea of what you want to get done.

~~~
imalolz
I'm exactly like what you described in your past. When I'm at work, I am as
professional as it gets - deadlines, quality code, testing and all that.
However, due to the work environment, I find that at the end of the day I've
used up all my positive energy and mental resources to keep myself in line and
motivated.

How did you find that extra boost to bust ass in both work and personal
projects (if at all)? Right it seems like see-saw between the two.

~~~
momotomo
I'm not quite there yet, in the process of getting there. When all I'm talking
about is contract art jobs and there's no dayjob - I'm there! =)

\- Mindfulness, oddly enough. I always need to stop, notice that I'm getting
tired or distracted (or burning up way too much energy on something), stop,
re-evaluate, and go

I notice sometimes I might just be "screwing around" on something (shuffling
CSS around, painting bits of a picture that aren't critical), so I'll focus
again and do something thats adding value

Especially when you're tired - its easy to futz about doing not much at all
while thinking "I'm so busy and productive". It takes effort to mentally stay
on task after a day at work

\- Cold showers and coffee

\- Being more assertive / aggressive at work. I used to burn myself out trying
to do everything and anything, and spent a lot of time bashing my head against
walls because someone else thought it was of value (and I didn't).

The more confident I get with my freelance jobs, the more risk I'm taking at
work. Quiet happy to tell someone that an idea isn't worth pursuing and push
back when I've got too much on my plate.

Also, learn to argue (in a professional manner) without feeling like shit
about it. Saves a lot of hassle.

\- Just doing it. It's cliche, but nothing beats this: take off your work
gear, shower, change, prep, shut the fucking browser, turn off the tv, and go.

Sometimes its almost comical what I have to do to break out of habits like
idling online or gaming or etc. I will sit and literally yell at myself if I
have to, to get myself back on task.

Small post-its work as well, like "get back to work" or "is this really
worthwhile and enjoyable?" (that one's stuck to the PS3)

\- Remembering that projects are fun. I feel way better about myself after a
half hour working out or four hours building time on something than watching
TV all night. It turned my mood around quiet a bit too - went from being quiet
sullen to very content and positive about stuff.

~~~
imalolz
that's great advice - thanks for sharing.

~~~
momotomo
No worries, your experience will probably be different but it generally starts
with the kind of discontent you're experiencing. Just make sure to act on it
in a direct and constructive way.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
Why do you need to do anything? It's their life, just live yours the way you
want to and let them be.

I can't content myself to just cruise along, either, but I'd be annoyed if
someone tried to change that about me. Therefore I have to show them the same
respect: if they want to just cruise along and take the easy way, that's their
right to do so.

------
sp4rki
Have you stopped to consider maybe they do keep up with technology, just not
on the same niche you're on (the C/C++ comment makes me think this is true)?
Or maybe that the culture in the company is to make efforts to automate your
job, but not making it public (generally means that you want to have cruise
control on your job, but it's so boring you're afraid to let anyone know
because you might get MORE work)?

I'm being too negative though, lets say that really no one in the company is
interested in going the extra mile nor staying relevant in the industry, TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF IT! If no one some off as the "wow I can't let this employee
go!", then the position is right there for you to take. Make something of it
and take advantage of your situation. That being said, you're having a child
soon... let us know if you still think everyone should keep up the pace after
the baby is born ;)

------
mvp
Probably the grass is greener on the other side. I felt like you are feeling
at the moment, throughout my career. I have successfully managed to move from
one environment to the desired one and onto the next desired one as the
current one got sour few times and that has not helped. Now, I am taking a few
years off to work on whatever I please and not be constrained by restrictions
at work place. Even this isn't feeling quite right.

------
DavidBishop
I'm in your boat too. I understand your frustration. But keep plugging away.
Keep making connections with those of us who want to work not for money but
for fulfillment (money follows passion, not the other way around).

Keep learning, growing, connecting. If you do, one day you will be doing
whatever job you want to do - something you are passionate about, and your co-
workers will be doing the same job for the same money.

------
wallflower
Side project. A bonus is that you can develop a parallel resume in something
that you don't do at work (which is usually the case). Think of it like
diversifying your tech portfolio.

Just submitted "How to Take On a Passion Project When You Have a Job"

[http://www.good.is/post/working-better-how-to-take-on-a-
pass...](http://www.good.is/post/working-better-how-to-take-on-a-passion-
project-when-you-have-a-job/)

------
willydaemon
This is why you've got to work on side businesses when you're younger and
don't get married too soon. By the time you've got kids, you can't really
focus on other businesses. Don't worry about their own failings, just work on
creating your next successes on the side.

~~~
krobertson
I can agree with the young part, but not about being married or having kids. I
hadn't launched any side businesses before I was married, and have started,
abandoned, and launched one project since having kids.

Being married and having kids can be a benefit. I've found a greater need to
manage my time and narrow my focus, being more decisive about what I'll do
than dive all into it.

Before I was married, I'd go off on tangents, code for a few days, then look
at the project and go meh. For me, I waste less time because my time is more
precious.

------
olalonde
Sounds like you're ripe to work for or perhaps, found a startup. You don't
have to quit your current job to start a startup on the side or hunt for a new
job.

~~~
petervandijck
With a kid on the way and an unemployed partner? Not really.

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gte910h
Highly train yourself. You will demand higher salaries and get more
interesting job offers, as well as being "the poached guy" when people go
elsewhere.

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known
The issue is addressed in <http://www.netmba.com/mgmt/ob/motivation/erg/>

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shareme
Start side project on off time un-related to work.

Zed Shaw has a good discussion of why and good videos on why at his set of
blogs: <http://www.zedshaw.com/essays/>

~~~
frou_dh
I watched the "ACL" talk the other day and it touches on work-only coding
mentality a lot.

