
Scott Adams: I credit MBA program for my success with Dilbert - cwan
http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/top_mba_schools/
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edw519
I understand OP's sentiment. I place very high value on my MBA from the
University of Pittsburgh, but for reasons one wouldn't expect.

I remember almost nothing from the course material itself. You can get that
from almost any book. The time value of money, how to read financial
statements, the 4 P's of marketing (or was it the 4 B's?), different
management theories, etc., etc., etc.

What I remember vividly are the interactions with other people, professors and
other students, some of whom already had many years of experience. I'm not
sure how else I could have had this experience. Some of my most vivid
memories:

"A degree in business is a degree in nothing." - management professor

"What is the correct answer to the question 'How much money did you make?'
It's always, 'Who wants to know'?" - managerial accounting professor

A professor of Organizational Behavior told us that a survey of Yale MBA's 25
years after graduation said that Organizational Behavior was their most
important course. I couldn't believe it. Years later, I believe it.

A case study had our team pick the next CEO from 4 managers. We were wrong.
The actual result: They went outside, for reasons well explained.

Our group made a recommendation to a local business to restructure, letting a
key person go. We got an "F" on the project, with the opportunity to go back
and redo it without letting anyone go. We got the message.

A marketing professor was picking on stupid products, like Heinz gravy, when a
student in the back offered, "I was the product manager for gravy at Heinz. It
made us $60 million last quarter. If you'd like to use it for a case study
some day, I'd be glad to help you with it."

I don't remember many specifics from class, but I know that I "think
differently" because of that experience. Along with a technical background,
this has been a great combination.

~~~
yef
_A marketing professor was picking on stupid products, like Heinz gravy, when
a student in the back offered, "I was the product manager for gravy at Heinz.
It made us $60 million last quarter. If you'd like to use it for a case study
some day, I'd be glad to help you with it."_

This particular story is a great synopsis of business school. You are
encountering people who may not know what they're talking about, opening
yourself up to new data and new thinking, and being polite and constructive
about it. Note who is playing each role in this case, too.

And for the cynics in this thread: you only get to complain about MBA's if you
can do their job better than they can. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just
trying to be fair.

~~~
alex_c
_And for the cynics in this thread: you only get to complain about MBA's if
you can do their job better than they can. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just
trying to be fair._

I don't think that's fair. Someone definitely has the right to complain if I
write a shoddy program, even if they can't program to save their life.

~~~
yef
That is fair; I suppose I'm trying to draw a line separating general
complaining, vs. criticism with an appreciation for the challenges. One is
annoying and a waste of time, another has the potential for constructive
change.

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Evgeny
My initial thought was that MBA produces pointy-haired managers -> source of
Dilbert cartoon ideas -> MBA gets credit for Dilbert cartoons success.

~~~
pradocchia
Oh, the irony. That he went to business school is one thing, but I would have
expected a different set of benefits, like knowing ones subject (professional
managers). And the examples he did give, like listening to his audience, do
not seem particularly obtuse. Strange fellow, Mr. Adams.

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jlm382
As a student at Berkeley, I'm honestly shocked to see that we're ranked higher
than Harvard as having the best business school in America. And it's great to
learn that at least someone found tremendous value from their business
education! (but a perspective we've seen way too little of)

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DuncanIdaho
I always thought that Dilbert is a source of consolation for beaten down
engineers.

Now I understand that in reality Dilbert is meant as MBA HOWTO on managing
engineers :)

~~~
michaelneale
Maybe, for the first few years, but really, when you think about it - isn't
Dilbert just a loser? He never improves his lot, he either has no desire to,
or no ability to. If no desire to, he is a loser. If no ability to, he is
under the mistaken impression he is far smarter and more capable then he is,
which means he is also a deluded loser.

(and yes, I know its a cartoon !).

But it does bug me a bit - instead of people feeling sorry for themselves (as
the cartoon seems to help people who are coping with grey corporate existence)
why not encourage people to change their environment (either bit by bit, or
just improving yourself, starting something, finding something, anything).

Dilbert is a loser, feel sorry for him but don't relate to him or else become
him.

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ryanwaggoner
Geez, his readers are downright hostile.

Question: why so much hostility towards MBAs (especially from top schools) in
non-MBA-heavy industries, but so much love for them in MBA-heavy industries?
One would assume that industry has found them useful, as they continue to hire
them.

Bonus question: if you have a startup and someone applies for a job as a
product manager and they have the right background, experience, passion, etc,
would the fact that they got an MBA from Harvard or Stanford make you more or
less likely to hire them?

~~~
gchpaco
MBAs are strongly associated with the theory that managers can "manage"
competently with no domain knowledge whatsoever. This is unpopular
conceptually with people who do have domain knowledge, and those folks can
point to scads of examples of situations where a newly minted MBA decided he
understood something important and fucked everything up.

I think your "industry has found them useful" argument is undermined by the
realization that MBAs tend to hire other MBAs, rather like a virus spreading.

~~~
gaius
That's relatively recent thing. In the early days of the MBA, in the 1950s,
the point of them was to teach real actual engineers the skills they would
need to move up the organization (e.g. if you were a civil engineer who knew
all about concrete, the MBA would teach you about the commercial aspects of
dam construction so you could manage the whole project).

The modern MBA is a rite of entry into a club and not much more.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Yeah, I've heard this comment quite a few times on here before, but the MBA
was created around the turn of the century, not in the 1950s, and it was
created because more companies wanted a scientific approach to management, not
to teach "real actual engineers" management skills.

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joez
I recently looked up Berkeley (Haas), Stanford (GSB) and Harvard (HBS) and was
really surprised by the statistics.

I think the most shocking of all was enrollment. My gut said that Harvard
would be the most selective but when comparing metrics like pre-enrollment
salary & GMAT, Haas and Stanford were more selective. I wouldn't expect such a
big difference in enrollment percentage and class size but there is.

Haas '10: 6.3% Applicants: 3779 Enrolled: 240

GSB: 6.7% Applicants: ~5400 Enrolled: 360

HBS '10: 10.3% Applicants: 8661 Enrolled: 900

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falsestprophet
_But on the face of it, I don't see any problem with asking students if they
made (cough, cognitive dissonance, cough) wise decisions..._

 _I joke about getting an MBA so I could become a cartoonist, but business
school was literally the competitive advantage that made Dilbert a success._

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mleonhard
Now the question is: apply to an MBA program or continue preparing for my
startup?

~~~
jjs
Preparing in what way?

(Saving up seed capital? Cutting down expenditures? Courting co-founders?
Market research? Product development?)

