
How dire is Singapore’s engineering ecosystem? - williswee
https://www.techinasia.com/talk/dire-singapores-engineering-ecosystem
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mrchess
One of the most interesting things I noticed when living is Singapore last
year was that a lot of engineers, especially computer programmers, fall under
the IT category.

There was no sense "software engineer" or "systems administrator" or
"solutions engineer", etc. not in the way how it is in the US.

They all just looked at me and said, "Oh, so you work in IT?"

Then we talked about banking.

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fieryeagle
I silently added those who said that to a certain blacklist. Been through
enough of 'Me - I'm in Software not IT. Them- But it is IT since you work with
computer right?' ping pong matches. Ignoramuses, really.

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hitekker
Good update on the Singaporean scene.

One measure I wish that was included was salaries; are the averages getting
better vis-a-vis NYC or the Bay Area? Money talks, as they say.

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p4wnc6
This is important. I had several interviews with some Singaporean companies
and salary was always the limiting factor. It was absolutely nowhere close to
what similar positions would pay in major US cities, let alone New York or SF.
Yet cost of living in Singapore is fairly high. While there are some tax
advantages, you also have to weigh the risks of such a long-distance
relocation and visa issues, as well as the significant cultural differences
that you have to embrace to live functionally in Singapore. If anything, it
ought to require a significant salary _premium_ to attract talented engineers
to bear some of these risks to relocate to Singapore.

One of my specific experiences was with Standard Chartered, since they are one
of the largest commercial users of Haskell and have a large Haskell
engineering presence in Singapore. Boy, that was disappointing. Basically they
think they can use the fact that you get to work with Haskell (even though it
is line of business bank software and involves a poorly built custom Haskell
compiler) and that it's located in Singapore as means to _reduce_ salary when
they import a worker.

If it's that bad with a wealthy investment bank, it's hard to believe it's
reached a healthy salary situation there across the engineering spectrum. But
I am sure there are the occasional gems there which do offer fair wage for the
risks being taken by employees.

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yomly
>"that it's located in Singapore as means to reduce salary when they import a
worker."

Having lived and worked there (and having a Singaporean father) this mentality
does not surprise me at all. The national propaganda machine indoctrinates
their citizens to believe it is the greatest most successful place in the
world, and a curious kind of arrogance arises from it. This is not to say that
other nations are not guilty of these practices, but I certainly notice it
when I deal with Singaporeans

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erispoe
An important point is the social conservatism of Singapore, which I suspect
plays an important role in repelling a large number of people. I don't think
it's a complete coincidence that startup hubs emerge in places that are
relatively libertarian in regards to social values and open to counter
culture.

Singapore sends a "not welcome here" message to many people: gays, hiv
positive, marijuana consumers... As long as the country sticks to dictating
citizens and residents how they should behave, including in private, they will
have trouble attracting and growing an engineering class.

For a startup culture to emerge, you need to allow, and even welcome,
experimentations off the beaten tracks. That's hardly compatible with social
authoritarianism.

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jernfrost
I have entertained the thought of working in Singapore. It appeals living
somewhere with bette climate, cheap to go out eating, big city etc. I live in
Oslo, Norway and have a certain fascination for Singapore, it coincidentally
having almost the same GDP and population as Norway, but a completely
different society.

I am not sure if anyone here could comment on some of concerns with working in
Singapore.

1) What is work-life balance like? From Norway I am used to employees
respecting that people have a life outside of work, needs of children and
family, 5 week vacation etc.

2) What is management and company organizations like, are they very
hierarchical or flat in a software company? Do they micromanage or give you a
lot of trust to solve problems the best way you see fit?

3) How does health care work for expats. You get that yourself or does the
company pay?

How easy is it to live there without a car? Like how well does public
transport work, or how cheap/hard/easy is it to get transport services for
moving, installing furniture etc.

In Norway it always cost a lot to pay somebody to help you with anything, so
you are always forced to do a lot of stuff yourself. It is not without reason
that IKEA originates from Scandinavia. I had the impression that in Singapore
it might be much cheaper and easier to pay people for various services.

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throwaway60453
Singapore currently has one of the highest standards of living in the world,
so bargains are few.

It is nearly 100% ethnic Chinese, and Chinese prefer family-managed companies,
so you would have some culture-shock.

There are some web and ISP companies there, so that's your best bet for a
typical cosmopolitan workplace.

Condos are over $1 million each for residents, so housing is expensive.

Anyway, it sounds like you need to do more homework before moving there.

~~~
whitegrape
74% is a lot less than 100%.

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johansch
My impression after doing a bunch of research (trying to get relocated
there!): Singaporeans get into banking/lawyering instead. For some peculiar
reason software development seems to be seen as a sort of janitorial task
there. This doesn't seem super sustainable...

Google just announced that they are locating their SEA engineering hub in
Singapore though - perhaps that will cause more of the young smart Singaporean
people to aim for software careers.

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matt_wulfeck
I want to know about management, which is one of the singular reasons I will
never work for an Asian company. I worked for a Japanese company and the
amount of negative reinforcement and risk averse behavior was maddening. It
destroys the environment that gives birth to new ideas.

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jpenninkhof
It has always been quite easy to get software engineers from neighbouring low-
wage countries for relatively low salaries. I guess that has affected the
market, and that's why salaries of software engineers in Singapore are
relatively low. When I was living in Singapore, I moved to another job for
this reason, as I found it hard to make a decent living as a software
engineer.

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crdoconnor
Wages are shitty and management is habitually abusive. Anybody talented will
run away quickly from that place.

