
Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back - remir
https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/9fkrvw/is_anyone_elses_power_saving_mode_turning_itself/e5xl907/
======
lalos
We need more transparency from companies, this time it was a 'bug' that was
visible to the end user (hey! who turned on power saving?). Would Google go
public if they also develop a 'bug' that is not visible easily by the user or
if it was not discovered by anybody but them? Like a 'bug' that changes certs
temporarily to intercept your encrypted traffic or uploads random data
elsewhere, etc?

~~~
hellosputnik
You can avoid all of this by using an iPhone. Apple's business model does not
involve ad revenue or data collection. Your data is collected but is used
purely to improve the iPhone. Your data is intentionally obfuscated for
privacy. For an example of Apple's strict policy, check out this article on
Apple Maps: [https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-
maps-f...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-from-
the-ground-up/)

~~~
babuskov
> You can avoid all of this by using an iPhone.

Not really. [https://www.apple.com/lae/iphone-battery-and-
performance/](https://www.apple.com/lae/iphone-battery-and-performance/)

> Apple's business model does not involve ad revenue or data collection.

I fail to see how ad revenue and data collection has anything to do with
battery saving mode.

~~~
SmallDeadGuy
It doesn't, monitoring and configuring battery saving is relatively harmless
to the majority of consumers. The point that the OP made is that there is
nothing stopping them from doing more harmful tests like experimenting with
web traffic, running benchmarks or something, tracking app usage in terms of
direct relationships (e.g. this person always reads emails, then hacker news,
then checks snapchat, then browses these kinds of shopping apps), etc. I'm not
saying that these are likely, but when information about specific users drives
ad revenue up then it's not much of a leap to suggest they'll collect a bunch
of information that people don't want them to collect.

------
jayd16
I'm taken aback by how many, even in this tech forum, seem surprised to learn
that automatic os updates means settings can be updated automatically.

Bugs are bad and all but I don't understand the "how could Google do this?!"
questions. Am I missing something?

~~~
enriquto
This happens in ubuntu linux actually. Every now and then, an update changes
my configuration of systemd without asking.

~~~
B-Con
Thus is the nature of updating settings. Easy mistakes to make include:

* Changing a field's default value (is that even a mistake? users might perceive it that way. Also, is there a difference between a field set to the default value and has never been changed vs a field explicitly set to the default value? Should you change it in the latter case? Did you even track the latter case?).

* Overwriting a field's non-default value and setting it back to default.

* Migrating a field and mapping the non-default value to the wrong non-default value.

* Migrating a tuple of fields to another tuple of fields and getting the map wrong for an edge case subset of the input values (bonus points if that subset was thought to be an impossible state to get into).

etc...

The best way to avoid settings updates it to throw it all on the user. eg,
Arch Linux just takes the approach: if, you update a file in /etc, the new
file is just created with a special file extension and merging the new and
current file is left to the user. You don't get nearly as many surprise
updates, but... you spend time merging config files, which few people are
willing to do.

~~~
enriquto
> The best way to avoid settings updates it to throw it all on the user. eg,
> Arch Linux ...

actually I prefer Slackware's way to do it: you can keep either the new or the
old file, or launch vimdiff and merge them yourself

~~~
heinrich5991
That's the way Arch Linux does it as well.

------
ggm
I don't see WHS the the big issue is. Yes my phone went to red battery low
power mode. So what? What aspects of this alter contract between me and Google
over automatically applied updstes? I gave can implicitly ages ago.

If they involuntarily disabled battery saving and caused me to loose service
or drain and reduce battery life i could see an issue.

Truly, bemused at the hate. What did you think the t&c said when you enabled
updates?

~~~
King-Aaron
You've put into words exactly what I was thinking.

From the thread: "Ok, but how is it that you have the power to control our
phones this way? "

Christ buddy. You have a phone thats made by Google. Google, the company that
tracks you everywhere and rolls greenfield updates on all their other
software. And then this person says they're going to turn 'allow modify system
settings' off... What do these people seriously think Google is going to do?

~~~
some_account
I think people with a Google phone should just implant a chip in their arm,
reporting to Google. It's basically the same thing, and you can view your body
information on a Google dashboard and get Google advice on health care, along
with a Google map to get there.

~~~
austhrow743
Many would and will when it's available.

~~~
Freak_NL
Except for the 20% of users who feel that Google is not to be trusted and
implant an Apple iChip for the premium experience.

In all seriousness, the percentage of people willing to forego using an Apple
or Google smartphone (or any smartphone) to uphold at least some semblance of
(digital) control over their life sometimes feels so low that it should be
called a permillage.

~~~
zero_intp
Thank you for the vocabulary.

------
muks
After my Samsung Galaxy S7 phone started having hardware issues, I looked to
see if a phone running open source software was available, one that also could
run the Android apps I currently use.

I've had sucess with LineageOS 15.1 on a Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro (codename
"whyred"). Unfortunately the phone's LTE bands don't support every country,
but it works fine here in India. The phone hardware costs USD 210 and buys a
lot of hardware:
[https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_redmi_note_5_pro-8893.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_redmi_note_5_pro-8893.php)

The phone comes with Xiaomi's Android fork called MIUI. It comes with the
bootloader locked, and Xiaomi makes you wait for about 2 weeks to 2 months to
be able to unlock the bootloader to install a different phone OS (called a
custom ROM). Until then, one has to either put up with MIUI or leave the phone
sitting on a shelf.

[https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/whyred/install](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/whyred/install)

Once you unlock the bootloader, you can install LineageOS on it which is fully
open source stock Android with some minimal tweaks and extra privacy features.
The current version for this phone is 15.1 which is based on Android Oreo.
This reminds me of my old Google Nexus 5's phone OS, but it is far more
tweakable. You can build the LineageOS ROM for your phone from source code:
[https://download.lineageos.org/whyred](https://download.lineageos.org/whyred)

You can install a subset of Google Apps depending on what your preference is:
[https://wiki.lineageos.org/gapps.html](https://wiki.lineageos.org/gapps.html)
[https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Package-
Comparis...](https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Package-Comparison)

Or you can avoid Google Apps altogether by using microG instead:
[https://microg.org/](https://microg.org/)

After 2 weeks of using LineageOS, I am so impressed that I'm willing to shill
for it^w^w^w describe about it here.

For your country, if the "whyred" phone's LTE bands are not compatible, you
should be able to find a similar phone that is.

~~~
9935c101ab17a66
Fully aware this might be a silly question, but why do they make you wait, and
why does the time period vary so greatly?

~~~
krn
Xiaomi temporarily locks the bootloader to prevent third-party Chinese
retailers from bundling malware and adware with its phones sold on the
international market[1].

[1] [https://www.xda-developers.com/xiaomi-anti-rollback-
protecti...](https://www.xda-developers.com/xiaomi-anti-rollback-protection-
brick-phone/)

~~~
A2017U1
Which is hilariously dumb because now 3rd party retailers are the go to source
if you want to buy a Xiaomi with unlocked bootloader rather than waiting a
month . It's creating more business for the people they are supposedly trying
to stop.

Also none of the stock Android phones they sell have a wait time for
bootloader unlocking, it's only the ones with their own os MIUI

~~~
krn
Xiaomi doesn't give a shit about the bootloader itself. What it cares about,
is people receiving a modified version of MIUI which it has no control over:

"The retailers would buy Xiaomi devices in bulk, unlock the bootloader, change
the software themselves or flash a custom ROM like Xiaomi.eu (unofficial ROMs
based on MIUI China but with more languages and features), and then sell the
device. Most consumers would have no way of knowing they’re running
unofficial/modified software, and would instead blame Xiaomi for a lack of
updates or bugs they encounter."

~~~
bubblethink
>Most consumers would have no way of knowing they’re running
unofficial/modified software

It's right there on the boot screen. They can make it more explicit if they
want with a red skull or whatever. That reason doesn't fly. Also, what changes
in 30 days ?

~~~
krn
Xiaomi is primarily a software company, not hardware. It sells hardware almost
at its costs, because it treats it as a user acquisition. If a re-seller
replaces the official MIUI version with a modified one, Xiaomi loses a
customer. Xiaomi doesn't care about Android One phones, and allows them to be
unlocked instantly.

~~~
bubblethink
I think you are conflating a few different things. That they want you to use
their OS is obvious. The 30 day period may even be a wear-you-down period, so
that you grow to like their OS. That is quite unrelated to the evil reseller
backstory, mainly because the reseller could do that after 30 days too, and if
they only wanted to thwart resellers, they could do captcha + ip checks, which
they presumably anyway do.

~~~
krn
The percentage of people who unlock the bootloader themselves is so small,
that Xiaomi couldn't be less worried about them. On the contrary, unlike many
other manufacturers, Xiaomi releases the source code and welcomes enthusiasts.
The problem is with re-sellers, who unlock the devices in bulk and sell a
modified version of MIUI to non-technical people. The longer the unlock period
is, the longer the re-sellers have to keep the inventory purchased before they
are able to make any modifications. This increases their costs and risks,
because they now have to make large investments up-front.

------
mbrumlow
This happened to me today! I was using my phone and then it went all weird
with no haptic feedback when typing. I finally figured out that battery saver
was on and disabled it...

This really bothers me... I am starting to think we need a truly open source
phone. That is hardware and software. like GNU/phone or something.

We must have full control over our hardware and software!

Viva La Gnu! (no clue what this actually means, but it seemed like the thing
to say at this time).

~~~
Tharkun
We've had several FOSS based phones. The problem is that no one buys them,
their finances dry up and the whole thing goes down the drain.

~~~
hardwaresofton
I'm a broken record at this point, but I'll say it again until I'm convinced
I'm wrong -- FirefoxOS did great but was tragically mishandled. I'm 100% a
FFOS stan
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person)#%22Stan%22_fans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_\(person\)#%22Stan%22_fans))
but it absolutely could have (and did) work -- they just fumbled the execution
and 0 executives took responsibility (as per usual).

While I appreciate Mozilla's recent exploits like the IoT Gateway
([https://iot.mozilla.org/gateway/](https://iot.mozilla.org/gateway/)), they
should have put all their non-thunderbird non-firefox effort into FirefoxOS,
it was a strategic bet.

~~~
ticoombs
I installed FFOS on my Nexus 4, and everything I needed from a phone,
TOTP/SMS/Calling/Internet just worked.

I even added SSH, nginx, and ran a webserver off it.

I'm hoping for KDE Connect to come through. I want seemless integration from a
mobile device to a desktop.

A girl can dream

~~~
amelius
The only problem would be my banking app, which is pretty crucial.

~~~
hardwaresofton
But your bank probably has a web portal right? You could have used that,
probably. I actually did that alot from my phone actually.

~~~
amelius
Yes, but it is slower, and doesn't allow me to make small payments without the
security token. Also, even checking the balance requires the security token
with the web portal. Further, I'm sure that many banks don't have their web
portal optimized for phone screens (because on a phone you are supposed to use
their app).

But yes, it's a matter of convenience mostly.

~~~
hardwaresofton
Once upon a time, your bank probably didn't have an app either -- that isn't a
strike against mobile platforms. In that same vein, having a bad web portal
isn't a strike against the web as a platform, it just means your bank isn't
taking full advantage (yet).

The only strike against FFOS as a platform that you mentioned was speed, and I
acknowledge that web-based apps do render slower than native ones 99% of the
time. The parser/execution system that handles HTML/CSS/JS is almost
guaranteed to be slower than one that can handle a more limited subset
(there's just less to do).

That said, speed seems like a red herring though -- just how fast do you need
your banking application to be? Is the half-second you had to wait longer to
see your balance really the mission-critical feature? I get that rendering
speed is important, but there are lots of bloated native apps that don't
render as fast as possible either.

------
omgtehlion
That's why I still use windowsphone: dead platform == no updates ))

~~~
jayd16
Also no security updates.

~~~
yoshamano
My Lumia 950 XL just pulled down a security update about 5 hours ago.

[https://support.microsoft.com/en-
us/help/4459082/september11...](https://support.microsoft.com/en-
us/help/4459082/september112018kb4459082osbuild15254530)

The GP's comment still stands though, it's a dead platform. Mainstream support
ends on December 10, 2019, but lots of little things will die as we get closer
to that date. Recently the Podcast app stopped letting me add new podcasts
with some vague error about being unable to contact Bing. When Microsoft shut
down their music service they killed Cortana's ability to identify music
playing in the background. Notifications can be hit or miss depending on the
app in question.

I went through the same cycle with webOS. What finally did it in the end for
me was the browser crashing on about every 6th website I would visit.

------
tempestn
Clicked on this expecting it to be something about making sure people's phones
didn't die while they were evacuated due to hurricanes or gas explosions. Now
I'm curious how the response would have differed had that had been the case.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
See also: Tesla extending the range of vehicles in natural disaster areas:
[https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/10/16283330/tesla-
hurricane-...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/10/16283330/tesla-hurricane-
irma-update-florida-extend-range-model-s-x-60-60d)

------
Animats
You can't turn off Google Play Services any more. There's no "Disable" button.
I use F-Droid apps for everything and have all the Google stuff turned off,
but can't easily get rid of Google Play Services.

~~~
snaky
The only way to turn off Play Services is not installing them at all.

------
Canada
We need silent updates to be disabled by default until the user opts in, and
we need 7 figure bug bounties on any method of bypassing that. We also need a
certificate transparency type system for updates so users know whether how
unique the update they're being asked to accept is. Otherwise this
functionality will be abused for wiretapping purposes.

~~~
UncleMeat
Requiring users to manually update is a security nightmare. There is no
getting around this. Automatic updates are a _tremendous_ win for security.

------
jaclaz
Set aside for a moment this specific issue (which all in all did not create
particular damages), I wonder what is the actual authorization/implementation
procedure in a firm like Google to actually push these "potentially
destructive" updates (or tests or whatever you call them).

I mean, I imagine that there is a control room where people receive an order
by the president, together with a launch code, then an officer in command
retrieves the other half of the launch code from a safe he opens with a key he
keeps at all times on a chain around his neck, and then two other officers,
each one with at least 5 years of service and the grade of captain enter the
code and press simultaneously two buttons on two consoles rather far apart.

But I fear that the procedure is much simpler and - theoretically - at the
reach of a disgruntled or "gone mad" employee, hired only a couple months
before...

------
mvpu
If a system setting is changed (in this case, power-saving mode = on)
_without_ associated user trigger (UI action), then the system should issue a
push notification and prompt for confirmation. That's the right thing to do -
for all apps no matter who made them.

------
l1feh4ck
Google is so deep-rooted in our life and they are doing it so elegantly
without making much noise and the majority of people are least bothered about
this. I want Google out of my phone, and I need it now. What am I going to do
about it? Nothing because Google is so convenient.

------
bubblethink
A plug for something that you may find useful:
[https://github.com/dan-v/rattlesnakeos-
stack](https://github.com/dan-v/rattlesnakeos-stack)

Backstory: It was created after the death of copperheadOS to fill in the gap.
It builds stock AOSP (without any google play blobs), and signs it with your
own keys for verified boot. This project is still pretty new, and has some
limitations. It builds on aws, whereas I would like to do local builds. Still,
a pretty neat and useful project.

------
Rotdhizon
Could they face repercussions over this? That is unsettling that they can
remotely manipulate your phone without your permission.

~~~
helthanatos
They can also delete media from your phone. Had a graphic video of that
carnival ride breaking and killing someone and it was deleted...

~~~
013a
Is this for real? Was it deleted specifically on Google Photos, with a local
copy still available or possibly available if it hadn't already been cleared
locally? Or was it a legitimate "reach into local storage and clear it"?

~~~
ehsankia
I'd be wary of believing some random anecdotal story with absolutely zero
proof and very little detail.

~~~
laserBro13Fcali

      anecdotal story with absolutely zero proof
    

If you lack real control over your device, " _absolutely zero proof_ " is the
new normal, and everything that gets zeroed out of RAM is rendered anecdotal
thusly.

------
sureaboutthis
A lot of people on reddit seemed to ignore the part where it was clearly
stated the activation was done by mistake and corrected.

------
j45
Oddly I turned on battery saving a few days ago and missed this.

As much as I like my Pixel, simpler times of loading apps onto a Palm trek
with a wire like syncing music onto an iPod comes to mind.

~~~
j45
To help those who may not be able to read between the lines, or know a time
before the app store:

Externally initiated and unattended changes to my phone only impact the
ability to trust and rely on my phone. This is a battery setting today, but
might it be the last thing?

Windows forced updates and reboots come to mind of where we could end up.

------
Markoff
no gapps in my phone, so no need to worry about intrusions from Google

------
geostyx
Oh, I wondered why that happened.

------
propman
Off topic, but Google is getting killed this last week. I was pretty ticked at
them ignoring Senator Warner’s request the other day and I think the hearings
are usually a public circus. Google is just the most powerful lobbyist in
Washington. They face no repercussions for anything.

In 2016, Trump (probably his admin he didn’t know anything) wanted to appoint
the most badass anti monopoly czar in America. Probably the most momentous
position in recent memory in terms of the future of society. Sounds like I’m
exaggerating, but free speech, monopoly, hate speech, income inequality,
spying, tracking everything, face recognition, Orwellian themes, and potential
usurpation of nation states in favor of data harvesting multinationals was on
the line. Google used all their lobbying capital to shut it down. Threatened
to nuke every bipartisan bill and every conservative judicial appointment with
the congressmen in their pockets. The WSJ had a great expose about this.

In the end the one man who scared the hell out of even Google and was poised
to take down uber monopolies like att&t, Disney etc. was passed over for a
pushover.

------
ehsankia
What a misleading, fake title. Honestly disappointing coming form
HackerNews... The post quite literally says it's an experiment, accidentally
enabled. A bug. Literally an A/B test, which they do all the time.

The title makes it sound like they hacked in your phone. With that logic, any
time your apps update or you get a notification, you're getting hacked.

~~~
pritambaral
> What a misleading, fake title.

The title is accurate. The Google account linked to says just as much.

> The post quite literally says it's an experiment, accidentally enabled. A
> bug.

And this can be accurate too, without being in conflict with any claim in the
title.

> Literally an A/B test, which they do all the time.

On accounts enrolled into beta programs. Not on regular accounts. This one
happened to phones with only regular accounts.

> The title makes it sound like they hacked in your phone.

The title makes it sound — at best — as if it was unexpected. Which it was.
The title does not make it sound like they "hacked in your phone". Perhaps
you're reading some outrage in the title that isn't there.

------
okonomiyaki3000
I think Apple remotely activated battery killing mode on mine. The battery was
already in bad shape but since this morning it's been ticking down like a
clock. It's much worse than yesterday. Anyone else? Am I just paranoid? Seems
like an odd coincidence.

~~~
Twisell
This is more like an App (or a JavaScript website on safari) has gone havoc
and is draining a lot of power. Look for statistics in power setting to
identify a potential culprit. If nothing suspicious an it keep doing after a
reboot contact apple support, they have a recall program rolling for some
models.

~~~
saagarjha
Apps and websites that drain power will be quickly killed by the OS. More
likely, there's a system daemon that's running amok, which should usually be
fixed by a reboot.

