
Ask HN: How to convince my company to avoid dark patterns? - gingerlime
I&#x27;m a co-founder of a small bootstrapped company. I also created an open source A&#x2F;B testing framework[0] that we use to run A&#x2F;B tests at my company. It helps us answer certain hypotheses and improve the user experience, as well as conversion.<p>Lately we&#x27;ve ran an experiment that felt to me like it crossed the line into dark pattern territory. It offered bonus eBooks for those who purchase within 24 hours on the pricing and checkout pages. With a ticking clock to build urgency... textbook example of a dark pattern?[1]<p>Despite being a co-founder and leading A&#x2F;B testing at my company, I&#x27;m not the only one calling the shots, and others were keen on running this experiment. In their mind it was simply a nice gift that we offer to customers. They couldn&#x27;t see the potential harm.<p>Luckily(?) this experiment didn&#x27;t fare that well, so we&#x27;re in the clear. For now. I&#x27;m wondering how to make them see the dangers and temptation with dark patterns, especially if they increase conversions. Any thoughts &#x2F; advice?<p>[0] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Alephbet&#x2F;Alephbet<p>[1] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;webtransparency.cs.princeton.edu&#x2F;dark-patterns&#x2F;
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jaclaz
Only as a side note, and of course IMHO, A/B testing may not necessarily -
even if sometimes it happens - end up with actually improving user experience.

What it does - once a result is chosen - is to "shift" user experience towards
what an unqualified numerical majority likes more (which not always is the
same as better), and while the experiment is running it risks to irk a lot of
users.

To the scope of making the _whatever_ more popular. it is of course
appropriate, but it shouldn't be called "better" or "improvement" unless it is
actually better or it really is an improvement.

About the specific on dark patterns, you must I believe, re-consider your (or
your firm's) approach, as you say "luckily " it didn't work this time, but
that doesn't mean that the next dark pattern will not work, possibly
surprisingly well.

Dark patterns exist exactly because they are successful (in sheer numbers of
subscriptions, conversions, etc.), even if often only on the short or very
short term.

We cannot deny this.

Many companies use dark patterns and are successful until they cross an
invisible line that - all of a sudden - makes their customers angry at them.

In a perfect world customers at the very first fraction of a hint that maybe a
dark pattern is used should get angry and leave.

But this is not what happens in real life, they come and stay until they
don't.

So you won't be able to convince anyone that dark patterns are "bad" (as in
the short term they do work) if not by scaring them about the possible long
term effects or by making ethical considerations (historically things like a
company motto "Don't do evil" didn't work all that well)

