
TSA: don't bring uncharged devices from oversea - alternize
http://www.tsa.gov/press/releases/2014/07/06/enhanced-security-measures-certain-airports-overseas
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px1999
The TSA and other US airport security process has gotten to the point where
it's unnecessarily onerous. I avoid even stopovers in the US when flying
(unless the US is my final destination) because it's such a
wildcard/inconvenience both with security as well as immigration - it's easier
to just pay more and fly direct or pick flights that are less convenient but
don't transit through the US.

If they start confiscating un-poweruperable devices at any scale (ie if it
were an enforced policy), that'd make transiting or traveling to the US far
more prohibitive (realistically, i'd never transit with my primary laptop; and
I'd imagine that a lot of organisations would start allowing their staff to
only travel through the US with their China laptops)... ie it sounds like a
terrible set of rules to have; and an even worse set to consider enforcing.

edit: I'm Canada-based and travel internationally several times each year --
avoiding the US on these trips is a real inconvenience.

~~~
Mandatum
I've always opted to fly through HK rather than LA, US customs are both scary
and slow. (As well as feeling like a an underground parking lot..)

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dschwartz88
It's been proven these arbitrary restrictions don't actually enhance security.
We need to see the TSA move to behavioral analysis for them to actually make a
difference.

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middleclick
I am quite naive in these matters but I see two reasons why this won't happen:
1). This will effectively tear down the security theater (again, I assume this
is what it is and may be uninformed that there is a real threat). 2). It is
difficult to train a large number of personnel to perform behavioral analysis
given the traffic the US airports handle.

~~~
ams6110
israel reportedly does a good job at it. Of course they only have to deal with
a few airports.

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infectoid
Yeah, I have to admit that they do a good job of screening you without making
you feel like you've done something wrong.

Still felt that I was targeted for some reason, but they helped me skip a few
queues once they confirmed everything was in order.

Net result was a fairly neutral experience. Which is kind of good I guess.

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monksy
The scary thing about this is that the US people have no control over this
initiative. We didn't ask for this, we have no control over their decision to
do that. What are we going to do.. go to our congress person? They're not
going to do anything over that.

~~~
late2part
We have control. We simply choose not to exercise it. We vote these congress-
people into office, and they allow these things to happen. Mail your
congressman, ask them to introduce a bill to fix this. Tell them if they don't
you'll work to drive them out office. Campaign against those that support
tyrannical security theater.

~~~
judk
And what happens when both electable parties' political machines put up
primary candidates on the same side of an issue?

~~~
stefan_kendall3
Would you like more war or more war?

If you don't want war just choose one of those options.

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lips
Soo.. I also can't bring anything might be on the fritz or broken, or items
that require a specific input or external device to do more than show a green
LED? Or does a power indicator pass muster? This really seems impractical if
enforced to the letter.

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jimktrains2
Ah yes. More senseless rules that do nothing but make life more complicated
for everyone.

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ggreer
I'd be much less annoyed by these restrictions if the TSA did a better job
explaining the reasons for them. Unfortunately, a statement such as, "Our
scanners can't reliably tell the difference between batteries and specially-
crafted explosives." is not something they want to publish. I have no idea if
that's actually true, but it seems plausible.

Also, the implementation of this policy seems rather inconsistent. Are
broken/powerless devices allowed in checked luggage? Can they be shipped via
air freight? If I bring spare batteries, do I have to put them in a device and
power it up? Etc.

Edit: It looks like this is a reaction to rumors of a plot to build bombs that
look like laptops.[1]

1\. [http://abcnews.go.com/International/terrorists-team-syria-
bu...](http://abcnews.go.com/International/terrorists-team-syria-build-
generation-bombs/story?id=24274983)

~~~
MBCook
> [...] reaction to rumor [...]

Always a great thing to base policy on.

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Fomite
I did a fair amount of international traveling back in the 1990's, and I
recall several people saving that last bit of power in their laptops to power
them on at security.

Guess it's just coming back into fashion.

~~~
ams6110
I recall the same thing. It's not a new technique, though it seems to me that
I haven't seen it done recently (I rarely travel by air and in fact tend to
avoid it if there's any other option, so my observations don't mean much)

~~~
MBCook
I'm not sure this is new either. I remember traveling with my laptop (post
9/11) in sleep mode going through security so I could quickly 'turn it on' to
show that it was a real laptop.

From what I can remember they're always (since before 9/11) been able to make
you turn stuff on to prove it's real. Maybe they'll do it _more_ , but it's
not as if this rule came out of nowhere.

I agree with one of the top comments (as I write this) that if they every
truly started confiscating 'dead' devices (at least of Americans) they would
quickly run afoul of congress due to complaints.

Body scanners? "Whatever makes me safer." Taking your iPhone? "YOU'LL LOSE
YOUR JOB".

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Rapzid
What's the science behind this? Is it not a bomb if it "powers on"? Is it a
bomb maybe if it doesn't? Do unpowered devices pose more of a threat than
powered devices?

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efiftythree
I think their premise is that a device which has been converted to a bomb
large enough to cause total destruction of its target would have had the
majority of its components removed thus rendering it non-functional. Following
that "logic" a device which powers on has a much lower chance of being an
explosive device.

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Osiris
That doesn't make sense. A simple x-ray would show that the internal
components have been removed.

~~~
MBCook
I believe the problem is that plastic explosives and a trigger mechanism look
very similar to the cells and relegation circuitry in a NiMH or LiIon battery
so an X-Ray can't really distinguish them.

What does this do to people with extra batteries? Do they all have to be
charged? Would you have to put them in your phone/laptop to prove it?

~~~
elithrar
> What does this do to people with extra batteries? Do they all have to be
> charged? Would you have to put them in your phone/laptop to prove it?

What about modern laptops that have multiple discrete batteries (i.e. modern
Macs) - I would guess that you could remove 2-3 of the 4-5 packs and still
have a "functioning" laptop, albeit with a much shorter uptime.

~~~
MBCook
I would assume it's an effort/sophistication thing, just raising the minimum
bar to weed out/discourage people and lessen the number of attempts in total.

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davecheney
I travel a lot, at least 6 international trips a year, and do you know what?
The rest of the world appears to be a reasonably safe place to fly, and you
don't need to take your shoes off or have a reach around to visit those
countries.

Smell that freedom folks - you've created a security 'organization' whose only
policy is to create more inane forms of security theatre.

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nfoz
Many of the first release of Apple Macbooks had a "random shutdown syndrome"
problem with their heatsinks. The laptop would randomly hard-shutdown and then
be unable to turn back on for some time. This is widely documented.

I was experiencing this problem shortly before heading through US airport
security. I was terrified they would ask me to turn on the laptop. They took
me aside, but it was to ask me questions about the remote-control that came
with these early macbooks (it was an apple product they didn't recognize, so
they were suspicious).

My point is, there's no way to know that your product -- any product -- won't
fail when you're going through security. The assumption that all devices going
through security will be operational, is bogus.

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michaelmior
Slightly different situation, but while I was away in Israel for a conference,
the battery on my laptop stopped holding a charge. Thus, I could only power on
my machine if it was plugged in.

Of course in the airport I was asked to turn it on. I explained the situation
and that I had no adapter, so they offered to take into a back room to check.
I agreed and they came back around 15 minutes later to say it was charged and
I should turn it on now.

Obviously something was lost in translation, but they ended up getting me to
talk to the head of security. Finally I had to surrender my battery and
charger for additional screening and pick them up at the airport a few days
after my arrival.

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gkoberger
Previous discussion here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7995512](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7995512)

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nickthemagicman
Is this just getting us used to powering on our laptops so the next step will
be logging in and seeing whats on the computer?

~~~
late2part
Perhaps, but it's already sadly quite legal for them to do that:
[http://www.pcworld.com/article/142429/article.html](http://www.pcworld.com/article/142429/article.html)

~~~
marco1
Really? This is from 2008. Can someone confirm this is still true?

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late2part
[http://thehill.com/policy/technology/194200-court-upholds-
bo...](http://thehill.com/policy/technology/194200-court-upholds-border-
laptop-searches)

By Julian Hattem - 12/31/13 03:02 PM EST A federal court has tossed out a
lawsuit trying to prevent the government from searching laptops, cellphones
and other devices at U.S. border checkpoints.

The circuit judge’s decision to uphold the Department of Homeland Security
(DHS) policy on Tuesday was a blow to civil liberties groups that argued the
practice violated the Constitution’s protection against unreasonable search
and seizure.

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far33d
This is a huge pain in the ass. When I travel, I often don't use my phone for
many days at a time, and usually return without a charged device.

~~~
vacri
I've left something running on my phone and had it 'dump charge' overnight
when usually it would last another day. There's all sorts of ways to
unexpectedly lose charge.

This new rule will get them a lot of public kickback if they continue to
enforce it. Bottles of water or nailclippers are cheap and have no personal
attachment. Phones are expensive and people's lives are wound around them -
not to mention that especially in this digital age, I wouldn't be suprised if
more than a few people travel with no itinerary beyond what's kept on their
phones.

~~~
late2part
Could it be that this is all part of a dragnet to track ESN/MEID of people's
devices?

~~~
Bluestrike2
No one would be incompetent enough to willingly involve the TSA of all
entities in their operations.

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dmishe
I wonder if iOS/OSX "no charge" screen will be enough of a proof.

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antidamage
How the shit does this relate to aviation security?

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MBCook
Explosives (to my knowledge) don't provide power, thus helping prove the
battery isn't just a bomb.

And preventing bombings has been a 'big deal' in aviation security for a few
decades now.

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antidamage
They've never overcharged a LiPol then.

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jrockway
Pointless. Plenty of airports that allow transit from domestic flights without
another security check. The terrorists will just board there.

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blazespin
You're saying you can avoid a TSA check from overseas if your final
destination is US? Example of this? I doubt any example is from an at risk
country.

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jrockway
Yes, there are plenty of airports that have a transit area that you can just
be in without any checks after arriving from a flight. Changi in Singapore
comes to mind.

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blazespin
The problem isn't the TSA, the problem is terrorism and the geopolitical
policies that foment them.

~~~
chrismcb
Terrorism? What Terrorism? You are probably more likely to get shot at a
school shooting, than be involved in a "terrorist" attack. No matter how
perfect a society you have, you will always have "geopolitical policies" that
will "forment" potential terrorists.

