
Santa hat removed from VS Code after complaint - drak0n1c
https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87268
======
tanepiper
No one did a reverse image search to find out Christian Shiffer probably
doesn't exist - this was trolling
[https://tineye.com/search/f8144058b180a1d4df439745cfea4b1c8c...](https://tineye.com/search/f8144058b180a1d4df439745cfea4b1c8c6550d9?page=1)

------
ivoras
It's like Nassim Taleb said, "The most intolerant wins":

[https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-
dict...](https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-
of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)

Besides, if anyone's connecting the "red winter hat with a white puff" image
with Jesus, Jews or anything of the sort instead of Coca Cola, their marketing
department is not doing a good job.

~~~
hrktb
I think we're past the point where it's easy to limit the scope of a message
to a specific group, and any message that concerns personal life is just
doomed to be an issue in some way.

Nassim Taleb seems to be about companies giving in to the most extreme groups,
but I think there will be less and less clear cut cases where a decision can
emcompass all groups. For instance for his take on Halal food, some people do
choose to not eat Halal. They might be arguably more intolerant that any other
group, but not in relevant numbers for any food company to care about them.

I don't think we're going far from the traditional marketing approach of
defining a market and playing the trade-off games around each segment's
inclinations. Religion and culture just got added to the mix.

------
coldtea
> _The Santa Hat on vscode insiders and pushing of religion is very offensive
> to me, additionally xmas has cost millions of Jews their lives over the
> centuries, yet even if that was not the case, pushing religious symbols as
> part of a product update is completely unacceptable. Please remove it
> immediately and make it your top priority. To me this is almost equally
> offensive as a swastika._

This guy should be banned from the project.

Slap a couple of lawsuits in different jurisdictions for promoting hate speech
(for him equating an established religious symbol to the swastika).

~~~
jaldhar
A swastika is an established religious symbol btw. Yeah I know in the West it
has unfortunately developed a more unsavory meaning.

It’s almost like people should evaluate the context of a symbol, be it a
swastika or Santa hat, before deciding to be outraged but it would be a true
Christmas miracle if that ever happened.

~~~
8fingerlouie
A Swastika was used as a "good luck" symbol since ~3000 BC, in both Asia and
Northern Europe.
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_(Germanic_Iron_Age)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_\(Germanic_Iron_Age\)))

While i personally don't take offense at seeing a Swastika "out of context", i
know many people do. This however is the first I've heard of people taking
offense because of a red top hat, but i guess that's what today's society has
come down to. It's almost like people are looking for things that offend them.

------
s9w
> we're sorry we hurt your and other's feelings. We'll remote the Santa Hat.

wow.

If 4chan were to make an image about a fictional interaction like this, people
would call it exaggerated.

edit: this has to be a troll. I cannot believe someone would actually write
like that

~~~
himinlomax
It may or may not be a troll, but that is irrelevant as to what makes this
situation interesting: the fact that Microsoft caved in to such an
incontrovertibly unreasonable request.

~~~
s9w
And it kinda seems to be blowing up. They removed a shitton of comments,
closed several related issues and now new bugs are being made because of this.
I can only hope there is massive resitence against this.

~~~
huffmsa
I'm going to waste an inordinate amount of time today finding things I find
offensive in VScode and ticketing them for removal.

~~~
syshum
Definitely time to run some keyword searches across no just the VS Code base
but every Microsoft Project

Any word that is even slightly offensive anywhere in the world should be
reported

------
ch_123
As an atheist who received a Catholic education, I think calling a Santa hat a
religious symbol is a stretch - Saint Nicholas is generally not depicted or
described as wearing a "Santa" outfit. It's really more of a Western culture
symbol rather than anything.

I agree with the assessment of some of the other posts that the guy who opened
the issue is either trolling, or has made an attempt at satire that was taken
too seriously.

~~~
maxerickson
If you want to analyze it that way, it's a secular Christian symbol, not a
Western symbol. There's plenty of westerners that don't do the Christmas.

~~~
laumars
Santa's red outfit was designed as part of a Coka Cola promotion. So I think
the GP is more actuate saying it's a western symbol.

Whether some westerners choose not to celebrate Christmas is kind of moot. I
don't celebrate Halloween but there's still no disputing some of the
traditions are modern regional twists.

~~~
maxerickson
The marketing was aimed directly at the group described by secular Christian,
I don't see how the fact that it originated as marketing changes anything.

------
sammorrowdrums
I don't think they should have backed down, but I understand Microsoft not
wanting confrontation or a storm. But if this person is so offended, I imagine
that they are constantly and persistently offended while walking the streets,
full of similar symbols and seasonal displays.

I'm a staunch atheist but I still appreciate a beautiful mosque, cathedral or
fun display.

(And I do find the money that could have been spent on helping others that was
used to build cathedrals and palaces to be obnoxious, it's not that I have to
have complete respect to accept their existence).

This story frustrated me because it seems like a needless censorship, where it
ultimately just stops managers from allowing easter eggs, which used to be
such a wonderful part of much software.

Hahahahahaha probably Easter eggs is also going to offend. Ok I'll call them
"Cody surprises":-p

~~~
excerionsforte
Balanced thing would have been to add a config parameter to enable disable
this stuff. Can't imagine a lawsuit from something that is user customizable.
Some want Easter eggs and others don't.

Of course if your easter eggs slow performance via bug then insta-disable.

~~~
sammorrowdrums
Yeah, that's arguably the most reasonable solution. Although off by default
would make me sad. Would have to be the other way.

~~~
excerionsforte
It can show up a non intrusive notification to inform you about turning it
on/leaving it on vs turning it off just like the data collection notification
popups.

~~~
Infinitesimus
That still leaves the chance someone would complaind bout being forced to read
"Christmas" when trying to write code

~~~
excerionsforte
Sounds like sarcasm and snark, but even so "decorations", "easter eggs" and/or
"holiday" is sufficient to convey what would be enabled/disabled.

~~~
mnm1
But "Easter eggs" are even more religious so that phrase would need to be
banned if we are banning everything some random person on the internet finds
offensive. Even "holiday" is borderline because it implies a holy day which is
also religious. If you give me a few minutes, I can think of a few reasons to
ban "decorations" on religious grounds too. I'm an atheist so don't give a
fuck if they are banned but I think that should indicate the absurdity of this
situation and of even acknowledging the "issue." That's what the close issue
is for.

------
kresten
The world is full of people who actively want to be offended. Who LIKE to be
offended.

If Christmas is so offensive why is it on every media channel constantly this
time of year?

They have a bubbling sense of righteous indignation ready to trigger.

These are trolls no different from any other.

The right way to handle this troll would have been to first get Christmas
taken off some mainstream tv channels first.

~~~
syshum
The problem is they are not actually offended.

They like the power that pretending to be offended gives them. They need that
validation, or rush at making the world bend to their unreasonable demands.
They is the only "joy" they have in their miserable lives

------
petagonoral
> Please remove it immediately and make it your top priority.

Jeez, the entitlement.

> To me this is almost equally offensive as a swastika.

and the stupidity.

~~~
Anthony-G
I hadn't noticed the "make it your top priority" part. This makes me more
inclined to think it's a troll.

------
tomcooks
If I were this person I would invest my time fixing the HTTPS cert on my
site[0], instead of focusing on the trivialities of commercial-backed
festivities, passing them as religious offences.

[0]([https://www.servicelayer.no/](https://www.servicelayer.no/))

~~~
mijndert
I noticed the same. What a waste of time.

------
rvz
> The Santa Hat on vscode insiders and pushing of religion is very offensive
> to me

Well, If it is "offensive" to you, find the settings button and turn it off.
To find everything that you see "offensive" and to demand everyone to cater to
your needs sounds like a sense of entitlement if not very draconian.

I had high hopes for Microsoft to resist this nonsense and close politically
correct issues like this, but once again, they capitulated to the minority.

> I've also deleted the discussion that does not belong into our issue
> tracker.

Well done! /s Now the whole context of parts the discussion has now been lost.

------
Zealotux
Reminded me of
[https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=96539](https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=96539)

Jean-Baptiste Kempf's answer was perfect in that regard, you don't like it
that way? Fork it, you have that freedom, or don't use the insiders' version,
as far as I know, the public release doesn't have the offensive svastika-like
Christmas hat.

~~~
frank2
at least on mac, the public release of VLC does have it (but it can be turned
off in settings).

~~~
Zealotux
My comment wasn't clear as I've mixed VLC and VSCode, what I meant was that
the public release of VSCode doesn't have the hat, the complaint was about the
insiders' version.

------
jevgeni
I understand being annoyed by religious symbols, but "it's almost as offensive
as a swastika"... that's just immensely callous. Especially from a Jewish
perspective.

~~~
donohoe
I’m not a huge fan of Christmas. I say ‘happy holidays’ to try and be more
inclusive. I’m atheist and use it as a time to spend time with family and
friends.

I’m 100% with you.

Santa is not a religious figure any more, if ever. Is Thor a religious figure?

This guy is a troll or just a ridiculous person.

------
dimitar
Looks like MS fell for an individual troll. I think the real story is how
companies, as risk averse as they are respond to such cases - I would probably
weight the risks and do as MS in such cases.

------
nneonneo
VLC gets dressed up for the holidays (the traffic cone wears a little hat),
but it can be turned off in the settings. Surely making this configurable
(even via some arcane non-GUI switch) would have satisfied all parties?
Instead the devs of VS Code, who no doubt felt this would be a cute and
generally appreciated little token to brighten a dev’s day, will be less
inclined to do fun things in the future. Everyone loses.

~~~
2fast4you
I think it should be an opt-in not an opt-out. The better way to distribute
some holiday cheer would be to release an official VSCode Christmas theme.
That way my editor it’s changing its appearance for no reason every year

------
x3ro
I must say I'm amused by the reactions here. I realize that the reporter
displays a strong reaction to something that seems irrelevant to most people
here. Comments then go on to raise concerns of rationality and objectivity.

Yet most discussions I read on here are the exact opposite. They quickly
dissolve into unnecessary rabbit holing about some particular niche topic a
commenter particularly cares about. Few people complain about these, and many
people participate. Most people participating also claim to be "rational" and
"objective", yet often know very little of the topic.

I feel this here is the same. People complain that people have feelings,
because they feel they are superior by being all "rational". Yet when the next
technical discussion comes around, all of this is thrown out of the window
because "curly braces go on the next line!!1"..

------
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
As a result his repos' issues are being trolled

[https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issu...](https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issues/8)

[https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issu...](https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issues/7)

~~~
SwiftyBug
Even a pull request:

[https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/pull...](https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/pull/14)

------
mikl
People have been using all sorts of excuses to visit evil upon another for all
of recorded history.

Dig deep enough in history, and you can condemn almost any tradition.

It is senseless to consider ancient history when evaluating modern traditions.
What people did hundreds or even thousands of years ago is of historic
interest, sure, but it does condemn Christmas today, any more than the
slaughter of the Canaanites condemns jews today.

And today, Christmas is a celebration of goodwill and peace to all. That
should not offend anyone.

So in that spirit, merry Christmas

------
contravariant
So the objection is against a symbol that is vaguely related to a festival
that ties together an enormous number of various otherwise unrelated
celebrations (that all happen at or around the winter solstice). The main
objection to most of them being that they aren't Jewish (conveniently ignoring
the Jewish festival of Hanukkah that occurs at around the same time).

Curiously the article linked that feebly attempts to tie this all together in
a coherent narrative fails to mention how the red hat is related to Christmas.

~~~
cosarara
The linked article starts by presenting Saturnalia as a murderous celebration
of human sacrifices, for which there is no evidence at all, so it makes me
doubt the historical accuracy of the whole piece.

~~~
jjeaff
Ya, I browsed through the article and zeroed in on Christmas caroling being
related to drunken people running nude through the streets and singing. Was
hoping for a fun little anecdote next time someone brought up going Christmas
caroling.

But turns out that all seems to be bunk. Caroling seems to be related to the
early practice of going door to door as peasants singing and asking for
food/gifts from feudal lords... "... so bring us some figgy pudding, and bring
it right here."

------
hotz
I honestly don't understand why people like this have to be entertained.

~~~
sdinsn
They don't. Ultimately, it's Microsoft's fault for giving in

~~~
gremlinsinc
They should've just added a star of david next to the santa hat... or maybe a
menorah?

------
luord
I'm about 99% sure that this was a joke, mocking the people who complain about
menial stuff like this. It's sad that it was taken seriously.

I mean, the reporter seems to be literally called Christian, even if he's
Jewish, I'm sure he's learned to live with the association.

~~~
sheepdestroyer
I insta lolled when I saw his name and read his report. How can he live with
himself then?

------
misnome
Clearly a deity of commercialism has no place in a product made by ... _checks
notes_... Microsoft.

------
huffmsa
60% of the user base didn't know it existed. 25% could have liked it, 14%
could have been indifferent. But this one guy is "offended" because Christmas
(the celebration of the birth of a Jew named Jesus of Nazareth) "killed the
Jews" and poof, it's gone.

Tyranny of the minority.

------
hrktb
This reminds me of Google so many years ago setting Father's Day reminder in
people's Gmail.

At some scale, a product can't just be whimsical, or not in any cultural or
personally touching way. Boring and impersonal becomes an important virtue.

There's no way this kind of fun initiative won't hit a nerve in some community
or some group around the world, and if there's no logical backing behind it's
just a PR hell.

~~~
maxerickson
The thing is, I don't particularly want things that I use every day to
"surprise" me with whimsy. I _want_ them to be boring and reliable.

------
edu
How ironic his name is "Christian".

------
s9w
I'm enjoying the fun people seem to be having in the github issues. My
favorite:

> "Light themes" section comes before "Dark themes" in settings dropdown which
> is very offensive to me (87345)

edit: Also how is this only on page 3 with 100+ points in less than an hour?

~~~
bigbaguette
Because it's a sensitive subject. I posted the very same submission a few
hours before and it got flagged in no time

------
tkel
This guy is obviously just a troll.

However it's important to note the unsaid political point. That society has
gone "too far" in being tolerant. Bad-faith actors like this will try to
weaponize attitudes of good-faith people to try to turn back social progress.

~~~
Gibbon1
Bad faith fucking with people that are exercising good faith isn't taken
seriously enough.

------
excerionsforte
Should have offered a switch via popup (on startup of the new update) and/or
configuration setting to disable holiday theming and etc.

Would seem to balance between sensitivities and cultural appreciation of
different people, but I guess it is easier to just remove it.

------
petecooper
Unsurprisingly, there are related (for want of a better word) issues
appearing:

[https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87341](https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87341)

[https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87348](https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87348)

[https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87342](https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87342)

The issue janitors have an interesting day ahead.

------
julienfr112
[https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issu...](https://github.com/Christian-
Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issues/7)

~~~
sam_lowry_
He is just a troll!

~~~
gremlinsinc
wow that's awesome!

------
yread
The linked Sefaria blog post is also complete hogwash! Lord Misrule is a
mediaval tradition, it didn't involve brutal murders, "rape and other sexual
license; consuming human-shaped biscuits" wtf?

------
sdbillin
It deeply offends me that people in professions that require a degree of logic
and rationality can actually believe in a magical sky wizard.

~~~
jaldhar
Um did you read the “logic and rationality” of the person reporting the bug?
It’s all about his feelings.

Plus I would argue that Father Christmas is a cthonic deity.

Anyway, this Hindu would like to wish all HNers who celebrate (however you
celebrate) a merry Christmas.

------
aganame
...and they replaced the icon with an actual snowflake. This is like an Onion
article.

I'm a somewhat a proud sjw myself, and this is just silly. It smells like a
deliberate attempt to make us look bad.

~~~
conradfr
There's always someone more sjw than you and maybe one day you'll even be
labeled alt-right for no reason and taste what you did to others.

~~~
aganame
What do you think I have done to others?

------
arketyp
I don't want decoration on my tools. On the other hand, I prefer tools where
the personality of the maker to can still shine through. Today it's just a
Santa's hat for which they can't take responsibility. And tomorrow?

------
snypox
I feel like this was really intended to be harmless (it's really not pushed
into your face also), people need to be able to let things go. edit: wait,
multiple people is saying he's a troll, is that true?

------
Angostura
The person who filed the complaint really needs to change his first name - I
find it offensive.

~~~
petagonoral
If you look at bottom right of his included screenshot, you'll see he has tab
size set to 4 spaces.

Is this really the type of person we should be taking demands from?!

~~~
gremlinsinc
I picked up 4 spaces from ruby/rails when I first started coding...then
switched to 2 spaces a few years back..my god it's so much better...

~~~
the_gastropod
I don't believe Ruby has ever endorsed 4 spaces...

~~~
gremlinsinc
I swear back in 2012 it was the norm/style to use 4 spaces in Rails...

Edit: Maybe it's PSR2? Or maybe it was one of the dev teams I worked for..
honestly I can't remember why I used that lol. I'm getting senile at 40, I
swear.

------
ihalip
And of course the opposite issue:
[https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87291](https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87291)

~~~
hwj
Seems they closed it within 12 minutes...

------
maury91
This issue is so over the top that South Park could make a gag out of it

------
divbyzer0
The justification linked in the issue is very weak.

The only issue I can see a level hypersensitivity that would find fault with
any tradition, including the one (potentially) being offended.

------
gremlinsinc
> To me this is almost equally offensive as a swastika.

Seriously ? Christmas didn't cause the holocaust. Christian idiots who don't
know who Christ is or what he taught definitely caused millions of deaths but
that's more on their leadership/organized religion.

I'm exmormon, ex-christian. Agnostic, but seriously people need to take a
chill pill. Santa's more like Mickey Mouse than a religious figure at this
point. Hardly a religious symbol imho. If anything he's a symbol of xmas than
christmas.

For me I just treat Christmas like it's Festivus, while my wife and other
family celebrate Christmas because that's what they believe. Tolerance goes
both ways. This person is as much a hate monger as a Christian hating on
Muslim's. It's only offensive because he chooses to be offended by it, just as
the religious right chooses to be offended with a transgender person goes into
what they deem is 'the wrong' restroom. It's all perception, people need to
stop it with being so offended, while at the same time accepting others for
who they are obviously.

How did our world get so toxic... Why can't we all just get along?

------
jaboutboul
It would have been funny as hell is they added a Menorah as well, just to
troll him...

------
me_me_me
Why am I directed to github and not an onion article?

~~~
Gibbon1
My explanation is we are all dead and in a level of hell that looks just like
the life we left. And the Devil is slowly changing things to fuck with us
until we realize we are in hell.

------
LucaSas
I believe the person who started this is just a bad actor. Surely he must have
known that this will only lead to more outrage and hatred. Now we need to have
the whole "war on xmas" and "political correctness gone crazy" debates, just
because there is one idiot out there that people decided to listen to instead
of ignore.

------
papermachete
Pathetic display of ethnic privilege.

------
utterdesign
Is the complainant related to Titania McGrath in any way? I think we should be
told.

[https://youtu.be/yEGv6CT7kz4](https://youtu.be/yEGv6CT7kz4)

------
mijndert
I really hope this is just a troll.

------
qazpot
Shouldn't he find his own name offensive ?

~~~
EForEndeavour
Living in constant self-offence would explain his astounding levels of
grouchiness. That's assuming he isn't blatantly trolling, of course.

------
turowicz
Interesting that he decided to post this using his real name and surname. You
can find him and his employers on LinkedIn.

------
tahdig
Genuinely curious why this post was flagged.

------
draklor40
Lol. PC police FTW!

------
haunter
Judging by the thread on /g/ 4chan will have a good day with this guy

------
wildpeaks
What does Santa have to do with religion, it's like the tooth fairy or Bigfoot
??

I almost wonder if it's not a troll account given most of his repos are forks
and his profile links to a website that doesn't load.

------
sam_lowry_
And the one who closed the ticket is Erich Gamma from the Gand of Four fame.

------
2fast4you
I don’t think the Santa hat belongs in VSCode, but not for the reasons
outlined in this issue. I don’t want my editor changing its UI every for the
holidays

------
heh
Yikes. I'm Jewish, non-religious. This guy is absolutely crazy.

Do I personally like Christmas? No. Do I like having it shoved down my throat
every time I go to get groceries? No. Do I like it when some people seem to
get offended when I tell them I don't celebrate Christmas? No. But to compare
it to swatztikas and the Holocaust is ludicrous. (And as a person with
grandparents who went through the holocaust, this is deeply offensive- don't
cheapen the memory of the holocaust with BS.) Calling Hannukah "Jewish
Christmas" is pretty offensive,but a little hat which has it's origins in a
Coca-Cola commercial is not.

------
polotics
IMHO this looks like a classic agent-provocateur move, very well written to
trigger identity-politics divisiveness. Flag flag flag.

------
TruffleLabs
Do you say “Merry Christmas”, “Happy Holidays”, or just “Happy New Year”? Is
there a “safe” greeting this time of year?

------
asadkn
Microsoft has done the right thing here. The non-issue could be created an
issue of. Who'd want the negative PR.

That being said, it's prudent not to add the most common religious or cultural
symbols for a global product. If you cater to one, you'll be expected to do
the same for other cultural rituals.

------
SR-71_Blackbird
I will never buy another Microsoft product because they are spineless.

------
gl0rb
... His name is Christian.

------
MattConfluence
> To me this is almost equally offensive as a swastika.

This seems quite ignorant of history coming from a Norwegian. The red "santa
hat" was a symbol of resistance during WWII, so much that it was actually
banned by the Nazis/collaborator government for a time.

Wikipedia article in Norwegian, try an automatic translation service if you're
interested in reading:
[https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisselue#Nisselue_som_norsk_sy...](https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisselue#Nisselue_som_norsk_symbol)

------
starefossen
This is why we can’t have nice things!

------
retox
Pathetic.

------
wornohaulus
Swastika is a religious symbol for us hindus .. whats so offensive about that
???

------
samkone
Stupid

------
nkkollaw
I don't know what's more pathetic—that somebody will go out of his way because
of a santa hat, or that the project actually removed the hat.

What a clown world we live in!

------
neoberg
While I agree with some points made here in comments, I wonder what would be
the reaction of people calling this "pathetic" if they added a crescent moon
for muslim holidays?

~~~
laumars
Christmas isn't really a Christian festival any more. I mean technically it
never was (Yule is a pagan thing) but even the later amendment of the Christ
metaphor has nothing to do with Santa and nor does the modern depiction of
Santa have any relation to the original heritage of the character (we have
Coka Cola to thank for that).

That all said, I'd welcome a crescent moon and any other imagery too. I don't
see the issue in celebrating festivals -- which themselves are intended to be
a celebration. Tolerance should be about acceptence other festivals not
censorship of them.

