
Early Retirement in the N.F.L. and at Google, and the Paradox of Success - yagibear
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/upshot/early-retirement-in-the-nfl-and-at-google-and-the-paradox-of-success.html
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mathgeek
"At the same time, there is a depressing message for the rest of us: Maybe the
fact that you would even consider retiring to a life of luxury at a young age
is a sign you aren’t going to succeed at a high enough level to make that an
option."

Now wait a second... didn't the author just finish talking about diminishing
utility? This sounds like the mindset of someone who really doesn't understand
just how little it takes to work and/or retire comfortably. The vast majority
of people don't need to travel the world in a private jet to enjoy retiring
luxuriously in their 50's (or in most cases even earlier).

~~~
Retric
Most 'professionals' quickly reach the point where money is really more about
status than anything else. Sure, there are a few toy's, but the gap between a
25k car and a 250k car is not actually that big for most day to day driving.
Often a 50$ watch is more useful than a 50,000$ watch.

Rent a 35' boat for a weekend and it's a fun experience, own a 35' boat and
it's a long term hassle.

Not that status is useless. Being able to afford a high status area has plenty
of knock on benefits. But, where the benefits of a middle class vs poor are
might be huge past that there are significant diminishing returns.

So, IMO it's really a question of how much you care about status vs. any thing
else. 50 year old with 90 million in the bank are a dime a dozen in some
circles, where a CFO at Google get's a long list of people paid to do what
they say.

~~~
hsitz
"Most 'professionals' quickly reach the point where money is really more about
status than anything else."

This sounds like something a young person would say. It's certainly not what
most successful "professionals" would say. Most professionals feel like
they're on a work treadmill same as everyone else, except they're doing it to
support a more expensive house, more expensive cars, more expensive clothes,
more expensive food, more expensive education for their kids, more expensive
frills than people who make less money.

The consumer society we live in encourages/creates spending patterns that
almost unavoidably rise right along with our salaries. These patterns of high
spending then feel like they're "necessary" and they raise the bar for what
feels like a safe retirement nest egg. It is possible to avoid this consumer-
society treadmill, but it's not easy -- it requires swimming against the
stream -- and a relatively small percentage of people do it. Avoiding it is
basically what the Mr. Money Mustache website (referred to in other posts in
this thread) is about, and it's interesting to note that the people who seem
to gravitate to that plan often retire with a fraction of what "professionals"
would consider a safe retirement nest egg.

~~~
nandemo
> * Most professionals feel like they're on a work treadmill same as everyone
> else, except they're doing it to support a more expensive house, more
> expensive cars, more expensive clothes, more expensive food, more expensive
> education for their kids, more expensive frills than people who make less
> money.*

I'm confused as to why you think this is not about status.

~~~
smtddr
Not OP, but I can tell you what I've been experiencing. It's not about status,
I don't care about impressing anyone else.

After leaving at&t to work in trendy-SF-startup tech scene, my salary sky-
rocketed. So I get married and have 2 kids. You'd think I'd just be relaxed
and happy right? I was; and I am still really, but that relaxing time gave me
more time to read stuff like HN, etc.

\--- I read a ton about poor public education in USA... and now I need a
private school. Or, I need to move into a neighborhood with million dollar
houses to gain access to their super-amazing public schools.

\--- I read about horrible quality of food and watch "Food, Inc.". Now I've
restricted my whole family's diet to USDA Organic, non-GMO from WholeFoods and
my monthly grocery bills easily exceed $1,000.

\--- Today I'm still driving my first car, Honda Civic LX 2002. It's great
right? For me yes, all I do is drive 20mins to BART station and back. But I
have a wife & 2 kids; time for a family vehicle. I could just get something
cheap & used, right? Then the thought of my wife being stuck in a broken-down
vehicle somewhere with our 2 kids hits me and I'm like... _" Nah, I better
make sure I get a nice, new & reliable, many airbags vehicle with GPS and
everything to keep my family safe"_ It's kinda FUD really, but when it's my
own family and I have the money, YOLO.

\--- Clothes? Today I have a standing desk, but I use to sit a bunch. I
started noticing that cheap jeans do feel less comfortable. Before I know it,
all my jeans are near $200 from GUESS. They don't look fancy, you can't tell
they're from GUESS. But they feel great.

I didn't do any of this to impress anyone. I just want the best for my family.
And I've learned that the definition of "best" keeps moving higher and higher
the more I read about stuff & experience things.

~~~
cjg
The pursuit of the "best" is the problem. How about "adequate"?

~~~
mathgeek
Agreed. There's also a huge red flag in the mindset that I saw as I was
reading that lifestyle choice. We're all going to die some day, which throws
another huge strike against pursuing the best above enjoying life. Add in the
pipe dream of living forever that is being sold these days (just as it has
been many times before), and it only makes "living well" seem more and more
difficult. Assuming we can even somehow define living well...

tldr: Find what makes you feel content. Be willing to stop doing other things.

~~~
smtddr
If you, and the person you replied to, are troubled by me seeking the best
that I can provide for my family.... I won't lose any sleep over it.

I only comment to state that it isn't about status.

------
mark_l_watson
I am more like Mr. Money Mustache. When I was 47 my wife and I sold a nice
house just north of the Del Mar Race Track, and moved into a tiny but really
nice house in Sedona Arizona. Major downsizing.

As it turned out, I got bored in retirement and in the last 15 years I have
written a bunch of books, consulted for some great companies like Google, but
the difference is that I have had a lot of freedom now, and probably averaged
less than 10 hours per week, not including writing, in the last 15 years.

I have to admit to a lot of curiousity about how Google's CFO will do after a
few years of leasure - I hope he enjoys his travels!

~~~
imjk
Just out of curiosity, how has your income from these more, I assume, passion-
based writing projects and consulting jobs compared to the income from your
original profession that allowed you to initially retire in the first place?

~~~
mark_l_watson
I made much more money when working for large companies, on site or as an
employee. I don't charge much when working remotely unless a customer wants me
to be always available during working hours in which case I charge onsite
rates. Working onsite at Google in 2013 paid well but cost of living in
Silicon Valley is very expensive. Where I live in Arizona, life is much less
expensive than in California. BTW, I just came back from a 2 1/2 hour hike in
the local mountains with five friends. Having this freedom is worth so much
more to me than extra income.

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kriro
"""The real question is not why these four men are all retiring"""

I disagree. NFL players on average retire for very different reasons than
Google execs. It may not be the case for the recent retirees but even if you
are fully healthy it's really risky to keep playing in the NFL (concussions
alone, check health premiums of NFL players etc.). Many players should
probably retire earlier. It's a lot better to enjoy less money than to have
more money and Alzheimers or the like at age 50.

+it's more likely that NFL players that retire early kind of have a good
feeling for how many more high level seasons they could have played. At least
I'd think it's easier to judge the capabilities of your body than the
capabilities of your mind. (QB's are the exception, I guess Locker could have
stayed around as a journeyman for a couple of years and made relatively safe
money holding a clipboard). I don't have any evidence but I also suspect some
of the surprise early retirements may be ralted to PED use and/or uncertainty
if that can be kept up "undetected". At least it's reasonable to think this is
the case for a higher %age than in other fields.

tl;dr: apples, oranges. NFL retirement is extremly different from most other
forms of retirement. The high level abstraction of "retired but didn't have
to" is at least somewhat questionable.

~~~
philwelch
I remember when Tiki Barber, a running back, retired early. He was on a talk
show and when they asked him why he retired, he said that being a running back
in the NFL was like running full-speed into a brick wall over and over again.

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Htsthbjig
Wow, Shocking news!! People want to enjoy the money they have earned ...

I have a company and have rich friends, this is completely normal, people do
what they always wanted to do when they get money. It is called "financial
independence".

I read and write on HN(for other people a waste of time) because I like it,
and because I can. I travel just because I can. I work on projects that
probably will not make money(and end making the most money of all because
nobody risks doing it) just because I can.

What is really a Paradox is that when you start doing what you really want to
do,instead of what others tells you to do, you could start making more money
than ever.

You are not a slave of money. It is a common belief of people living in NY.
People earning a million dollars a year but spending half of that in a condo.

------
lettergram
Personally, I am trying to work as hard as I can so I can start a company.
Even if I had $5 million I would probably keep pushing myself to ensure I had
what I felt I needed to achieve my goals.

Money lets you purchase other peoples time, it's boosts your productivity, and
if you can hire someone to build you something you can do ever greater things.

Although this is just my motivation, I am sure most of the highly productive
or motivated people feel the same way. They want to do something great, and
they know they have to work to get there.

~~~
nkozyra
Well there's work and then there's "work," and I think this is the big part of
what the article misses.

Put it this way - if someone asked me if I wanted to be making $250K/yr at
CorpTech or $250K/yr hitting baseballs, the choice is pretty clear (at least
for me, you may hate baseball). When a job is fun or emotionally rewarding, it
changes the way you perceive "work."

I bring this up in response to your comment because owning and running your
own company is an emotionally gratifying experience. Granted, there are
moments that tear your heart out, moments that leave you awake at night, but
if you're wired for this kind stimulus, you enjoy it. It stops being about
(just) the money.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> if someone asked me if I wanted to be making $250K/yr at CorpTech or
> $250K/yr hitting baseballs, the choice is pretty clear (at least for me, you
> may hate baseball)

Well, of course. But that doesn't make the choice unclear ;)

------
Sone7
"Presumably America’s companies are better run when the most talented
executives put in a 50-year career than if they put in only 20 or 30."

Are we talking about the executives most talented at increasing shareholder
profits, or executives most talented at improving people's lives? To put it
another way, there's a lot of good reasons we put term limits on politicians,
why are business executives different?

~~~
omonra
I am not sure if you are kidding, but the serious answer is that politicians
who can stay in power without limits (witness Putin now) tend to rearrange the
political process of their country with sole purpose of never leaving their
post. Then they lose all accountability and do as they please without worry of
being voted out.

Companies, on the other hand, exist in the ecosystem of the market (so a
single CEO can not rearrange the playing field). If the company is doing
poorly, its shares will drop and forces will gather to remove the CEO (note
how Balmer or recent CSFB CEO were removed).

~~~
JetSpiegel
Of course it can: monopolies, collusion, corruption at the highest level,
lobbying.

~~~
zo1
2 / 4 of those items you mention are actually problems caused by having a
corruptible state, not by the market.

------
brandonmenc
Jason Worilds is retiring so he can devote more time to his religion, the
Jehova's Witnesses.

I don't necessarily disagree with the author, but another reasonable
explanation is that successful people like their jobs, and in the absence of
larger pursuits, like religion, they see no reason to move on. Retirement in
and of itself isn't the "prize" for every single person.

------
hacknat
I actually wonder how common it is to retire early? First of all what is
"early"? If it is before 65 then a good number of people do.

Getting to the spirit of the article though, a good chunk of the people that I
know who don't "have to work" anymore, don't, or do so infrequently. I think
it is rare indeed for someone to become a billionaire or hundred-millionaire
without the manic drive that this article speaks of, but I do know plenty of
millionaires who either don't work or take it very easy.

It actually would make sense that a lot of millionaires wouldn't work anymore.
Presumably they make most of their money in a one-time deal (i.e. their
company gets sold), if they were a solid software engineer, etc at said
company it might not seem worth it to go back and work another company doing
CRUD. Maybe the right opportunity comes along, maybe it doesn't, but why
pressure yourself if you don't "have to work".

------
cjbprime
It's strange to see the author come to this conclusion (fierce drive is
necessary for high income, and as a result prevents early retirement) without
trying it out on anyone. Why not just ask executives who are still at Google
why they do it, and mention what the most common responses were?

~~~
eloisant
The responses would be a pretty boring "because I love what I do and I want to
keep doing it".

------
peter303
I dont understand all this "retirement" anxiety. Anyone with half a brain can
find a job/lifestyle they'd love doing forever and save enough money not to
have to worry about it. Why fritter away you life on activities you hate?

~~~
zrail
This is not true in my experience. There are a lot of people who want to do a
job that doesn't pay well (like teaching elementary school) or there aren't
any jobs in their area other than physical labor (much of the midwest US
outside of the cities).

Saying "anyone with half a brain can find a job they love" is really
dismissing quite a lot of people that are not in the same privileged situation
as you.

------
jim4000
How am I supposed to take a person writing about the NFL seriously when he or
she puts periods in between the letters?

This is a mediocre article, at best.

~~~
gyardley
The spelling of 'NFL' vs. 'N.F.L.' isn't up to the individual NYT writer.
Whatever his preference, his editor will make sure it complies with the New
York Times Manual of Style and Usage, which in its 2015 edition still calls
for 'N.F.L.'

~~~
jim4000
Ah, that's interesting.

------
michaelochurch
Money isn't about money. It's about status and power for many people.

That's different from being ambitious in general. I probably wouldn't stop
working if I made $20 million, but I'd work differently. I'd take more risks,
play less politics, and be able to focus more due to fearlessness. I, however,
don't view work for work's sake as being valuable. When I'm 55, I might decide
that it's time to do more traveling and less working.

There are, however, a lot of people who see money as "life's scorecard" and
that leads them astray, because ultimately optimizing for that one factor is
(beyond a certain point) astronomically stupid. If you enjoy your work, keep
at it. But a lot of these people don't. When you look at why they keep going,
though, it turns out that they're not really into the work or the money
themselves but the status that come with them. A surprising percentage of
people don't really care what it is they do, so long as they can use a private
jet to do it.

