
Show HN: Fitocracy, an RPG for fitness - brianmwang
My cofounder and I have been working on a site called Fitocracy (www.fitocracy.com), which is a social game for fitness.  The idea was very much inspired by our experiences growing up as nerds playing video games, later on discovering weightlifting, and drawing the parallel between working out and "leveling yourself up."  XKCD has a pretty well known comic to this effect: http://xkcd.com/189/.  We find that the metaphor of workout out as leveling up in a video game resonates with quite a few people, so Fitocracy is an attempt to bring that to life.<p>On Fitocracy, tracking your workouts earns you points/levels, unlocks special achievements, and fulfills "quests", which are basically exercise milestones that aim for workout variety and progression.  As you progress in your training, Fitocracy offers more quests, increases the level up requirements, etc.  We also try to make the experience as community focused as possible, so the site actively encourages you to follow others with similar fitness approaches, comment on workouts, etc.<p>We have been in invite-only beta since mid-February and have become fairly popular on Reddit and SomethingAwful.  I know there are plenty of folks on HN that are interested in fitness so I hope this will be of interest to some of you.<p>URL: http://www.fitocracy.com<p>You can sign up using this invite link:  http://ftcy.co/jaBLMa<p>We're still working through a long list of bugs and features to get out, but do feel free to offer any feedback.  Hope you all enjoy!<p>You can find me on Fitocracy at: http://www.fitocracy.com/profile/xenowang and my cofounder at http://www.fitocracy.com/profile/dicktalens (seriously, the way our usernames may sound to some is purely coincidental)<p>-Brian<p>Interesting side note: We started working on this in October 2010 and I had no real prior experience in front-end design at that point.  I've basically been cutting my teeth in front-end design (design principles, Photoshop mockups, graphic assets, HTML, CSS) on Fitocracy.
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dkarl
I checked out the achievements, and they are mostly strength-focused and
pretty daunting for a beginner but possibly too simple for an experienced
lifter. The list of achievements should be categorized and fleshed out, with
barbell lifts in one category, bodyweight exercises in another category,
running in another, swimming in another, kettlebells in another, etc. More
levels should be added, too. Video game achievements typically start really
easy (10 kills with a particular weapon, for example) and then ramp up
quickly. Level one of barbell squatting should be a single barbell squat with
any weight! Remember, you're trying to suck people in! For most folks who are
entirely new to weightlifting, just walking over to the equipment and starting
to use it is an achievement. Your system should validate that feeling and help
pull people gradually over the psychological barriers as well as the physical
ones.

1RM (one-rep maxes) achievements are not friendly for beginners, by the way,
because beginners find it less daunting to push themselves for reps than for
one massive lift. It feels safer, and conventional wisdom seems to be that it
actually is safer. Also, keep in mind that female users will have a very
different perception of, say, a 0.9x bodyweight bench press. Revamp your
achievements, and they will become a lot more addictive, and therefore a lot
more useful for keeping people working out and keeping people on your site.

~~~
brianmwang
Thanks for the feedback, dkarl.

We've had a largely positive response to our achievements system thus far but
I agree that they aren't necessarily beginner friendly. We do intend on
fleshing out the system more to support achievements for a greater variety of
exercises (cardio, bodyweight exercises, etc).

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darklajid
Logged in, watched the tour, feel left out in the cold now.

* Lots of quests/suggestions/activities require stuff I don't have. I somehow expected more easily available things (i.e. run/cycle/workouts without the need for gear)

* English's a foreign language to me. I can talk you to insanity if we're discussion nerd stuff, but reading most of the quests is gibberish without Google Translate. Add more graphics so that I don't have to guess that much.

For now this seems to be heavily focused on native English speakers that like
dumbbells/weights and have a good understanding of the science of fitness.
That is, not me.

Maybe I kind of expected the WoW style easy gratification at first.. ;-)

~~~
brianmwang
We freely admit that there's a heavy skew toward weightlifting on the site at
the moment, but we're focusing on adding more quests/achievements around
cardio and other activities quite shortly.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
How about building the achievements around programs that will actually result
in real improvement? Or around programs to achieve certain goals?

Everybody always wants cardio. I think because that is what most people do.
But that isn't going to make you fit by any useful definition of the word.

~~~
brianmwang
We intend to build out functionality to let us offer programs around specific
goals. The quest system is a precursor to this, but the idea is to have a fun
way of offering structured guidance to the user and move them to specific
outcomes.

And believe me, I'm in agreement with you about cardio. It's pretty worthless
in many cases :)

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3dFlatLander
You should consider adding some more body weight achievements maybe some more
exercises. I prefer them to weights--cheaper, always available.
<http://www.frixo.com/sites/fitness/> is a site I use for reference, but there
are many out there. Maybe some yoga as well? Adding some amazon affiliate
links to some equipment might do well. Pullup bars are cheap and awesome.

(I got an internal server error on <http://fitocracy.com/profile_setup_3/> of
the setup process)

~~~
brianmwang
We already have quite a few bodyweight exercises on the site, though the
scoring system for them is a little borked and is in need of an overhaul. Yoga
is also on the site as well.

Regarding the internal server error, did that occur right after Step 2 or was
it when you attempted to finish the sign-up process?

~~~
3dFlatLander
It happened on the screen where you hook up facebook & twitter. Account was
created fine, though.

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Goronmon
While your site layout is very nice, it's seems like the theme is a bit
distant from the subject matter, which you describe as an RPG for fitness.

I guess I was expecting less <https://banksimple.com/> and more
<http://www.rexbox.co.uk/epicwin/>

~~~
brianmwang
Duly noted. As mentioned, I'm no creative/graphics designer but we're hoping
to have somebody with those talents join the team down the line.

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darklajid
I wanted to log in with Twitter (don't like FB..), but you wanted to have
quite a nice list of permissions. Without even knowing a lot about your app,
why should I agree (I didn't)?

Can you explain what you do with the social network accounts?

~~~
brianmwang
We only use FB and Twitter for easy sign-up/sign-in. We'll be introducing
posting to FB wall / tweeting workouts/achievements soon, but that will be
totally optional. We'll never post to your social network accounts without
your explicit permission.

Email addresses are a concern as well, of course. We won't email you unless
you authorize us to do so in your account settings.

~~~
darklajid
Add something like that to the signup process then. I doubt that I'm the only
one that just didn't dare to hand out Twitter access to ~something unknown~.
Especially with the social media abuse we've lately discussed in several posts
on this board.

Something like 'We never post something without your consent but might allow
you to share your achievement in the future' or a more eloquent version might
have relaxed me enough to hit 'yes'..

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elbrodeur
For people who already work out, this is a great tool. For people who need a
starting point, this needs some work. Some suggestions that may be helpful:

Allow users to specify their starting point or _class_. How do you want to
start exercising? Similar to how players choose classes in MMOs, users could
pick a starting point. Srongman, Endurer, Ripped, Swimmer, Biker, Martial
Artist, Climber... and the user can choose to start as one of these things and
the quests guide the user to achieve that title by focusing on attributes like
strength, endurance, tone, lower body workouts, etc.

The reason I think this would help people just starting out is that 1) It
helps to have someone tell you what to do. That's why personal trainers are
popular. 2) It'll confirm whatever bias/propensity a user has. Some people
love to ride bikes and the prospect of riding 100 miles is less daunting than
the goal of working up to running 10 miles. Likewise a person who is into
cardio will be less inclined to try doing heavy weight training.

Very cool project. Good luck!

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jaysonelliot
I joined in February, but I haven't used Fitocracy yet.

My feedback on why it hasn't grabbed me yet:

1) Design - as Goronmon pointed out above, the design doesn't feel fun or
encouraging.

2) Performance - it's laggy right now, although I expect that will improve
soon.

3) User Experience - It's hard to figure out how to get started, or to get a
clear picture of how it all works. I'd suggest including lists of activities,
rather than making people type into a blank box and look for autocompletes.

The activity feed is interesting, but it still feels like a list of data,
removed from any context.

4) Perception - Right now, it seems like a place for fitness freaks and gym
rats. That might be intentional - but I'd much rather use a site populated by
out of shape geeks working to get fit.

If Fitocracy can make exercise game-like and enjoyable, it will win. The
hardest part is getting started each day (getting up to run, going to the gym
instead of the pub after work) - that's where Fitocracy can make a difference.

Good luck, guys - I hope this becomes something great!

~~~
brianmwang
Hey Jayson,

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. Responses below:

1) Design is certainly something I'd like to work on improving. As noted in
the OP, I handle the design for Fitocracy which is a bit funny, since I was
pretty much a total beginner at this process 6 months ago. We'd like to
eventually have a full-time designer on board.

2) If you think it's bad now, it used to be 10x worse a month ago. I'm not
even exaggerating here. That being said, better site performance is absolutely
something we're working on as well.

3) UX is also a top priority that we want to hit hard on ASAP. We know there
are quite a few shortcomings right now but we hope to make the experience more
cohesive and simple over time.

4) You're right that the core users skew more toward people who are already
quite active in working out. We've found that they're a pretty key demographic
at the moment, but we do hope to make the experience more enticing and useful
for absolute fitness noobs down the line.

Thanks again, Brian

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brianmwang
Clickable invite link: <http://ftcy.co/jaBLMa>

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stewarty
How about hitting up the Daily Burn API for workouts as well? I use Daily Burn
to track my calories and workouts as it collates them for me nicely and it
would suck to have to enter everything twice. I know a lot of people who are
already on workout tracking/fitness sites wouldn't move (to much hassle and
history) but you could produce a nice add-on to their data.

~~~
ortusdux
FatSecret would be nice too <http://platform.fatsecret.com/api/>

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wccrawford
Wow, photo required? Ouch. I bet that kills a lot of signups.

Edit: And then it stretched it sideways so I look even fatter. Nice.

~~~
brianmwang
A photo isn't required for signup. You can just use the generic silhouette
image for your profile image.

Image resize/distortion is something we will fix in a future update.

~~~
LokiSnake
You may want to have an explicit note saying it isn't required. People may
think it is required because uploading a photo has its own step. Having a note
will make the UX feel a bit more friendly.

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joeconway
Your sign up process uses a few things from here
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2517296> that I really liked. I love
being able to see a password I've typed in only once.

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smokeyj
You should check out my buddies blog, his community would align well with
yours, <http://nerdfitness.com/>

Maybe send him a message and start working something out?

~~~
mikebridgman
I second this. Steve at Nerdfitness.com runs a great blog and community, you
should definitely attempt to connect with him.

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JonLim
Awesome, always a fan of the gamification of activities, especially if they
will result in a net benefit for the participant.

Would love to talk shop about what you guys made this with, have an email I
can reach out with?

Thanks!

~~~
brianmwang
Hey Jon,

You can email me at brian [at] fitocracy <dot> com.

~~~
vyrotek
As a co founder of a Gamification Platform startup, I'd love to chat about
your experience creating the achievement system itself. Mind if I shoot you an
email?

~~~
brianmwang
By all means :)

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gadders
Looks rather neat, and it's a good idea. I think the issue for me would be
taking the time to update it. I use Jefit on android whilst working out to
replace paper and pen for recording exercises, weights, reps etc. It would be
good if you had a mobile client that would let me record my exercises whilst
working out that fed into Fitocracy. If you wanted to be more advanced, so you
could even make it two way - EG alerts popping up that say "2kg more and you
unlock badge XX", "500m more and you get to level YY".

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rav124
Any thought of adding a simple API? We have some iPhone/Android fitness apps
that we looking at hooking into a leaderboard or other social system. This
might be an excellent match.

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dekayed
As someone else mentioned, some of the quests require equipment that I don't
have. How about asking the user what type of equipment they have? I wouldn't
go too detailed into it, but say something like 'gym membership', 'small home
gym', 'treadmill', etc. Once you have that information, you could scope the
quests based on that.

Another thing that would be useful would be some videos or instructions on
some of the exercises. Showing correct form and/or how to use certain
equipment would be great.

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sophacles
This is a cool site -- great start! I would like to make a couple of
suggestions:

1\. don't just focus on exercise, include an "eat healthy" component too
(maybe based on both calories and general healthy food attributes)

2\. Find a way for user goals. Maybe a "self directed quest" is required for
any given level, be it lose X pounds, or reach Y bench weight.

3\. Find a way to keep stats for people and show them graphs of improvement
(or otherwise), not just levels, but attributes :)

Keep up the good work.

~~~
brianmwang
Thanks for the thoughts!

1\. We're focusing on exercise for now as we want to make sure it's executed
well. Long term we definitely envision including nutrition as well.

2\. Some form of this is planned.

3\. See: #2 :)

-Brian

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bendmorris
I've recently been wanting to get back in shape so this is perfect timing. My
morning workout instantly got me up to Level 4 - great motivation.

One comment - I'm using a netbook (1024x800 resolution) and some of the boxes,
like "great, you just earned X points" are too tall for my browser window, but
they move when I scroll - I can't see a button to make the box go away, so I
have to click on "play."

~~~
brianmwang
Hey, thanks for the feedback on netbook resolution. I clearly overlooked that
when designing the flow on the workout tracker page. I'll try to get that
fixed asap.

~~~
bendmorris
One more thing - it seems when I open the "quests" box, then close it, it
won't open again without reloading the page.

~~~
brianmwang
I don't seem to be getting this issue on Chrome / OS X. What are you running
on?

~~~
bendmorris
Chromium beta, Ubuntu 11.04

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marksbirch
Nice website and interesting concept that gets to the motivation issues that
prevent most fitness regimes from being successful.

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bobbles
Hey I've been using fitocracy for a few weeks now (same username) and I'm
wondering if theres any plan to add extra functionality for groups?

I believe (could be wrong) that there isnt actually a point to groups other
than seeing each others updates. Are there any plans for group leaders to
create their own quests for members or anything like that?

~~~
brianmwang
Yes, we do plan on further fleshing out the groups feature soon. One idea
we're bouncing around is having a PvP style challenge system between groups,
or I suppose more appropriately, GvG :)

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jambo
Would love to check it out. Got an internal server error on
fitocracy.com/setup after redirect from twitter authorization.

~~~
brianmwang
Hm, could've sworn that bug was fixed. We've found that trying a second time
usually gets around the issue. Can you try doing so?

~~~
nhangen
Same thing happened, but it still connected. I just had to refresh creating my
profile.

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frobozz
It would be nice to know, in advance, what it takes to score points.

I just logged the run I did yesterday, and was rather surprised that it took
me to level 4 instantly, not far off level 5.

It would be nice if I could now go and choose an activity that would bring me
up to the next level.

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there
i didn't see it on the front page but does it interface with any existing data
tracking sites like fitbit or strava?

you may want to look at <http://earndit.com/> to see how they automatically
pull fitness data.

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phil
See also: <http://healthmonth.com/>

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pbhjpbhj
Front page is broken for me by default font size on FF4 on Kubuntu 11.04 -
<http://imgur.com/9neX6> \- zooming font down fixes it. It's literally just
the button moving that breaks things.

Just FYI.

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marcin
For some reason I can't create the account, but I love the idea - especially
levelling up. That's what makes most good training programmes (like CrossFit,
which I'm into) successful + peer pressure, which I'm sure you'll provide.
Just hope I'll be able to use it one day :)

Marcin \-- Did you see <http://linkfindr.com> ?

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sebkomianos
If you could make a few more invites available I'd gladly join!

~~~
brianmwang
I just reloaded the code with 350 more invites.

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tgandrews
Love it.

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thomasdavis
You should link us to your profiles, I'd like to see what you lift =D

~~~
brianmwang
<http://www.fitocracy.com/profile/xenowang>

~~~
ryanfitz
Do you happen to be following wendlers 5-3-1 routine?

~~~
brianmwang
I am indeed! I'm enjoying it quite a bit so far.

~~~
matwood
5-3-1 is awesome. I made some great gains on my DL. 525 1RM weighing 195 :D

Doing Huge in a Hurry now to put on a bit of size and cut down before a
vacation to Mexico.

