
Sexism in Tech: Beyond the Outrage - DinahDavis
https://code.likeagirl.io/sexism-in-tech-beyond-the-outrage-da7f88c8fb3c#.j4br3eut2
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TheAdamAndChe
Different people have different opinions on what is considered equal. Getting
outraged over perceived slights only fuels the division, and expecting every
company across the country to have the same culture is a bit insane in my
opinion.

Also, using the term "mansplaining" is pretty sexist. If we're gonna aim for
equality, then let's not put sexual undertones in everything we say. It
doesn't add to the conversation, just denigrates the main idea by insulting a
large part of the readers. Women can be condescending, too.

~~~
bbctol
What's insulting about "mansplaining"?

EDIT: this could be seen as a rhetorical jab, but I really don't mean it that
way, I'm just not sure in what context that would be insulting.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
Good question. The term "mansplaining" is just another way of saying someone
is being condescending, but with the underlying implication that they're being
condescending because they're male. In our culture, men do tend to be more
condescending, but by using the term, it implies that it's due solely to the
fact that they're male, which is wrong.

A good example of the same thing would be if a woman that complains a lot and
just seems to be in a bad mood is told she's "PMSing." Statistically it may be
accurate, but the assumption is rude and sexist.

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mirage01
I think one of the points of its colloquial usage is as a form of protest to
force us to reflect on our culture.

It's asking us to think about why the term bugs us, as well as how helpless it
feels to be unable to stop being dismissed with terms like these no matter how
much you explain it. We all have to change.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
That's an interesting idea, but in my opinion, use of such divisive words are
counterproductive, pushing men away from feminism instead of encouraging them
to join. If the goal is equality, then foster an equal environment.

~~~
mirage01
The goal is for women to be treated equally. That's on us, not them, and words
like this being used on us are attempts to communicate that. They've been
asking us for the equal environment for centuries. And if you honestly believe
in women being equal, nothing would push you away.

"Mansplaining" doesn't hurt my feelings or oppress me and my expression at
all. This isn't necessarily true for the hundreds of other words we use to
dismiss women and their behaviour.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
The goal is for everyone to be treated equally, not just women. People tend to
create an us-vs-them mentality and form tribes, especially when they feel
they're under attack. Much of the online backlash against feminism is due to
militant, insulting forms of it that are popular on sites like tumblr that
trigger this us-vs-them mentalities. That severely degrades the image of
feminism when it seems to be anti-white guy. You can't allow sexism as long as
it's against white men. If you do, you're part of why feminism is stalling.

"Mansplaining" doesn't oppress you like "PMSing" doesn't oppress women, which
it does. It reinforces negative stereotypes and forms potentially false
assumptions. Just because other people say mean things about women doesn't
mean you should say mean things about men.

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mirage01
What I'm saying is you're deflecting the responsibility of creating ideal
feminist societies back onto women to make it palatable to you, which goes
against anything I've ever learned about responsibility and accountability
after someone(women) tells you(men) something's wrong.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
I understand what you're saying, but what I'm trying to say is that your
approach is wrong. You're fighting fire with fire, and making an environment
hostile to men in an attempt to make things equal for women. You won't win
support by doing that. If we are to break down the barriers to equality, we
must behave in a manner that will foster an equal environment for _both_
sexes.

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Aqua
While I understand that serious "sexist" incidents take place in the tech
industry I always try to read such articles with distance as honestly, this is
just a random blog post published after a leaked info of Uber toxic
environment, there is no evidence presented and this may be a post by someone
seeking attention (I'm not saying that's the case, though). I fail to
understand what was preventing them all from releasing all that stuff
anonymously prior Uber outrage?

Don't get me wrong, I'm highly critical of sexism but the western political
correctness is driving me nuts even more, I could imagine some of the claims
in the article being part of a joke, e.g. "Don't be such a woman" the person
didn't like or didn't get, seriously this stuff will soon turn into another
list of forbidden words one cannot think of without being accused of racism,
sexism, homophobia, xenophobia or other more sophisticated phobia I couldn't
yet think of. On the other hand if it's true that there was a plan to fire a
woman because she was pregnant, it is truly outrageous, but then again, it's
just an article on the internet.

I also doubt that all these sexist comments ("don't be such a woman") came out
of nowhere, this may sound radical but I can't imagine anyone in the tech
field picking on an employee (whatever sex) who is performing well, that said
I disagree with the form it allegedly took as the article claims but there are
tons of various programs hosted by SV giants and other IT companies across the
world that aim to bring more women into the field and let's make it clear,
sexism works both ways and I personally haven't seen any complains about these
programs, what a surprise. If anything, it's easier for a woman to get into
tech nowadays than for a man and this might be one of the reasons why such
incidents take place afterwards, when people within the team realize someone
is a slacker or his/her abilities are way under the expected average I can
imagine such person not being treated equally. What's worse, I can sense this
leading to another politically correct absurd like "you can't say I'm not a
high performer, because I'm a woman" or the managers not being able to give
just criticism to female employees without being accused of sexism.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
To be fair, the author didn't say she worked with Uber, and in fact didn't
even out the compan(y/ies) she was complaining about. It seems like she was
just trying to advance the conversation on sex and gender in our field, which
is an important topic currently.

In my opinion, what we are experiencing is a combination of culture clash
between regions of the country with varying expectations on sex and gender,
and disagreements on what an equal society is. There are some places with
literal gender quotas, others with an equal opportunity hiring method, and
yes, some with real sexism and discrimination. How do we choose in what
direction our culture goes? Are the differences in gender all cultural, or are
there legitimate psychological differences? In a period of growing inequality
and low marriage rates, how do we provide for the modern family? All of these
are important social questions with many, many different opinions on them.
Please try not to approach these topics with the mindset of "political
correctness gone awry."

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micah_chatt
Going along with this thought, I think providing educational tools for people
seems to be one of the things that could help empower those who would be
targets of sexism. It seems simple but just educating people on what
harassment is and how to react is way better over nothing. Prior to my current
job, I'd only worked in companies that had less than 50 people, and not
located in CA, so once I went through harassment training I was surprised to
learn how much of the frat-boy behavior I'd experienced in small startups was
sometimes straight up illegal.

