
Whether to Use Anki or SuperMemo - hnous927
https://masterhowtolearn.wordpress.com/2018/11/25/this-guide-will-help-you-decide-whether-to-use-anki-or-supermemo/
======
Stratoscope
Note to writers: unless you're writing _only_ for an audience that is already
familiar with your terminology, it's helpful to spell out acronyms and
initialisms the first time you use them.

I skimmed this entire article out of curiosity. It uses the term SRS twenty
times but never says what it means. I went back to the top and noticed the
"not a prerequisite" link, so I looked at that article too. About six
paragraphs in, the fourth mention of SRS finally gave me the key: "Spaced
Repetition Software (SRS)".

This tiny bit of knowledge gave me the context to understand what the articles
were talking about.

If you put definitions like this at the top of every article, you will have
more informed readers who can better appreciate your insights.

~~~
hyperpape
It's worse than that, because even for someone who knows about SRS (via Anki),
this is circuitous and hard to read.

Anyone who's a fan of incremental reading/super memo would do us a favor by
writing a new introduction that's more straightforward and credible. The fact
that the introductions to incremental reading have this feel of "read these
hundred things to grasp the genius of incremental reading" is a huge problem.

~~~
hnous927
I’m OP. Thank you for the feedback!

Could you tell me more what makes it hard to read?

I’ve written about Incremental Reading. Hopefully this could serve as a brief
introduction:

[https://masterhowtolearn.wordpress.com/2018/10/30/the-
signif...](https://masterhowtolearn.wordpress.com/2018/10/30/the-significance-
of-incremental-reading-in-supermemo-part-i/)

------
keiferski
The fundamental flaw in the author's argument for using SuperMemo is that
there is a ton of value in manually creating the decks yourself. When you
write out an item in pencil on paper, then copy it to Anki and create a card,
you're creating a memory and physical association with the creation of that
card. When you just cloze pre-made selections of reading material, you're
skipping this entire process.

This is the same reason that downloading pre-made decks from Anki's website
doesn't really work.

~~~
hnous927
I’m OP. Thank you for the feedback!

Yes, I think decks have to be personalized. But I don't agree the argument
that "writing out in pencil then transferring back to a Spaced Repetition
Software" is better than "pre-made selections of reading material". For
Incremental Reading, you have to select the important parts; there's no pre-
made selection. It's just like highlighting; the material isn't pre-
highlighted. I think the most important thing is the thought process: thinking
which part is important and which isn't. The medium, whether you are doing it
in paper and pencil is no difference than doing it digitally.

~~~
keiferski
_The Medium, whether you are doing it in paper and pencil is no difference
than doing it digitally._

Science says otherwise:

[https://www.fastcompany.com/40476984/this-is-how-the-way-
you...](https://www.fastcompany.com/40476984/this-is-how-the-way-you-read-
impacts-your-memory-and-productivity)

~~~
hnous927
>"Studies have shown that taking notes by longhand will help you remember
important meeting points better than tapping notes out on your laptop or
smartphone."

By "doing it" I meant the thought process, the selecting process of what's
important, not the medium in which you do your "whole studying".

Also that study means that taking notes by hands is better than with a
computer. It doesn't mean learning with paper and pencil is better than with a
computer, especially when we involve other things like a spaced repetition
software.

------
chongli
I'm really skeptical of these sorts of memorization systems, not because I
think they don't work (I think they do), but because I see it as a brain
"hack" that goes against the grain.

What do I mean by this? I think of our memories as a kind of most-frequently-
used (MFU) cache. We remember best when we use the information all the time.
So when we use this sort of spaced repetition we're trying to artificially
"warm up" the cache in our brains. We're not trusting our brains to remember
the things that are most important in our lives.

If you're trying to learn a language, you should learn the way children learn
their first language: by speaking. Talk to people in that language constantly.
If you don't know anyone who speaks the language, what are you learning it
for? If you really need to learn the language (for work?) then find somebody
who speaks it and arrange to meet them for coffee on a regular basis.

If you're trying to memorize something else, such as theorems in math or
standard library functions in a programming language, I'd advise against it.
Learn the theorems by applying them and trying to prove stuff. Learn the
library functions by doing actual programming.

In the long run, if your knowledge is situated within a context and connected
to other things you know (because you learned by doing) then I believe you'll
understand it much better. Memorizing by rote, out of context, will help you
to recall facts which often don't have any meaning to you.

~~~
hpbd
I want to learn a language but I don't think I'll be using it with anybody
anytime soon. But I'd be happy to understand a newspaper or Wikipedia. What
would be the recommended way to learn vocabulary if Anki is not an option?

I've been using Duolingo but it really feels like a glorified Anki

~~~
chongli
English is my first language. I didn't use Anki to learn English vocabulary. I
learned by reading books and talking about them to people.

For language learning, I'm skeptical of any method that doesn't resemble real-
world use.

~~~
hpbd
So I should find very basic books? Because for me newspapers or even my mobile
phone's interface are unintelligible.

~~~
chongli
Start with basic books but try to move up quickly to more challenging
material. I read through Lord of the Rings in second grade. It was slow and
frustrating at times, but the fact that the book is so engaging helped a lot.
I learned so much vocabulary in such a short time this way.

Don't be afraid to keep a hard-copy dictionary of the language you're studying
handy.

------
deepprocess
Been using Anki for a couple of years to learn Spanish. Was "ok".

I now use Anki to learn Spanish but now I add imagery (also known as a
mnemonic). Our minds don't remember text too well - but coupled with imagery
they do. To boot, Anki supports audio files to even further ingrain the memory
if you have the time to create the cards.

If you're super imaginative, like the Russian Mnemonist Solomon Shereshevsky,
(article on front page HN today) you wouldn't need to this do, you can create
anything in your mind and recall it.

This can in way (it's physically limited whereas Anki is not) be taken to pen
and paper as well using the Leitner system, a few file folders and some paper.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitner_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitner_system)

So whatever you're trying to memorize - math, names, bible verses, numbers,
languages -with imagery and with spaced repetition.

I bought a book a while ago called "Fluent Forever" (not associated). The
author has released an app to learn languages now using this imagery method. I
personally don't like the app as it takes away the flashcard creation process
reducing your "learning experience" to just a few taps. Anki, Supermemo,
-insert SRS program here-, albeit harder, it's much more rewarding.

~~~
innocentoldguy
I use Anki to learn Japanese vocabulary. I have found it much more useful when
I use Kanji vs. Romanization. I see Kanji differently than I do Romanization
and I wonder if there isn’t a picture quality to it that gets lost when I
Romanize the words?

~~~
deepprocess
I think there's something there for sure. The ability to rewrite the Kanji
correctly probably wouldn't be there (I believe it follows a strict pattern?).
I was messing around with Arabic for a month and was able to memorize written
words and what they meant but could not reproduce it if I wanted to.

------
bayesian_horse
Spaced repetition is misunderstood. The original idea was to decrease the
amount of time needed for long term memorization, over a different approach,
like sequential or purely random repetition. However, many people now compare
SRS over no repetition at all.

One big problem of SRS is that it gets unwieldy with larger chunks of
information. SRS is good for vocabulary, bad for medical texts. The much
bigger problem is that it takes an unpractical amount of calendar time. If you
have three months, yes you can SRS a few hundred words. If you have a week and
want full recollection at the end, you'll still repeat the list of words a
couple dozen times and SRS makes no difference.

Another problem is the time it takes to prepare a database or a set of paper
cards. By the time I prepare a database from a book I could probably read the
thing twice or more times.

For exams that require recital of information (for example medical or law
exams) mnemonic techniques like the Loci method (also called memory palace)
are much more reliable and more practical.

~~~
hnous927
I’m OP. Thank you for the feedback! I don't see why not comparing "SRS over no
repetition at all". To me, SRS or no SRS, they are all learning/studying
methods.

All SRS algorithm is expanding, i.e. increasing intervals. So maybe with
continue success, it'll be: 1 day, 2, 4, 16, 40, 300 (arbitrary numbers).

How do you propose to lean medical texts, if without SRS?

Mnemonic techniques only work with rote recall, whereas flashcards, if
formulated well, can help induction, understanding, not just recall.

~~~
bayesian_horse
The idea with SRS is that the exponential scheduling is supposed to be more
efficient than random or sequential scheduling.

I did study for medical exams with mnemonic techniques. Studies have shown
that they do not inhibit understanding at all. In my experience they even help
understanding. They totally dominate SRS on anything looking like a table or
list. With text it's not as pronounced, but still you can memorize the key
words, as few as possible, as many as necessary.

Flashcards are first of all a rewrite of the original material. If that is
really necessary, the original material sucks, at least for the purposes of
the exam. The physical cards are marginally easier to use than a textbook, but
then again, writing them takes a lot of time and effort.

~~~
hnous927
SRS is mostly about the learning schedule, i.e. equal intervals and increasing
intervals.

How you execute, whether with mnemonics or flashcards, is different.

With the umbrella term of "study or learning techniques", the learning
schedule and execution are both included.

~~~
bayesian_horse
Usually when people talk about SRS, they mean flashcards or Software. At the
very least you would need to keep track of the learning schedule and what you
forget. Which I found impractical for learning large amounts of stuff.

------
edwardhusarcik
I'm a medical student who uses Anki religiously. I'll vouch for it any day.
Currently, I see around 300-1,000 flashcards a day and have been doing it for
almost a year straight. Without Anki, I am not sure if I'd be doing nearly as
well in school. It is really a game changer for my education (at least my
medical education). I wish it was more user friendly, but it is free (on
Android) so I can't complain.

As for Supermemo comparison, Anki has been much easier for me to sync /
utilize decks offline. I just keep a 24K card deck on my phone and sync it
occasionally for a backup then I'm good to go.

~~~
Latteland
I've had the idea that a lot of medical training (besides anatomy, chemistry,
bio, many other things :-)) was memorizing a big decision tree to evaluate
someone, which seems fundamentally different than flash cards. How do you
learn that? Family history that pertinent , previous conditions etc.

~~~
edwardhusarcik
Hi Latteland! I do both. Anki is about the little facts that I want to retain
after I understand the bigger picture. In fact, I never use Anki to learn
anything and only for retention.

Example flashcard:

\- Front: Which race has a higher prevalence of G6PD Deficiency?

\- Back: African Americans

------
habitue
I figured this was written by someone working on or for supermemo, but it
turns out it's not!

The author details his journey from using Anki for 5+ years to switching to
supermemo: [https://masterhowtolearn.wordpress.com/2018/10/28/why-i-
swit...](https://masterhowtolearn.wordpress.com/2018/10/28/why-i-switched-to-
supermemo-after-using-anki-for-5-years-with-over-50000-cards-and-420000-total-
reviews/)

~~~
hnous927
I’m OP. Thank you for the feedback. Yes I have no affiliation with SuperMemo
whatsoever. My previous 5-year Anki experience gives me in a unique position
when comparing both software.

------
corollari
A few months ago I built a Chrome extension that replaces the new tab page
with an anki window, in an attempt to improve my browsing habits and it seems
people overall are finding it useful so far,

You can find the source code and links to the web store listings in
[https://github.com/corollari/ankiTab](https://github.com/corollari/ankiTab)

------
MrTonyD
I spend an insane numbers of hours on airplanes with my iPad. Any
recommendations for which of these would be good for creating cards (with
Apple pencil) and using on an iPad with no Internet connection?

------
burtonator
I'f you're a spaced repetition enthusiast you might like Polar:

[https://getpolarized.io/](https://getpolarized.io/)

~~~
wahnfrieden
What’s the connection to SRS?

~~~
goerz
It implements an incremental reading system (which is built in to SM, but not
Anki), including the ability to generate Anki flash cards.

------
dawidw
I can see lot of doubts if flash card system is working. For some of the
people certainly it is:

[http://augmentingcognition.com/ltm.html](http://augmentingcognition.com/ltm.html)

The above is the first link from the HN discussion which I really recommend to
everyone:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17846356](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17846356)

------
skybrian
The main hump I need to get over before committing to either tool is deciding
what's important enough to remember. If I were learning a language, using
spaced repetition would be obvious. In most other areas, it's not so clear
whether it's important to remember the contents of any given book or article.

I suppose I could apply it to remembering songs I've learned how to play, but
I'm just doing it for fun.

~~~
hnous927
It takes time to consider whether something is worth committing to memory. I
constantly rewrite cards and delete them.

------
anotheryou
Is SuperMemo free (unless you book pre-set vocab sets)?

And is there an export function to avoid vendor lock-in? (Don't want to tempt
my luck and waste my time scripting or writing a GDPR request)

and are we talking about [https://super-memo.com/](https://super-memo.com/) or
[https://www.supermemo.com/](https://www.supermemo.com/) ?

~~~
xkfm
There's an actual program, and a saas version. The saas version isn't worth
paying for (imo) over using AnkiWeb unless you wanted preformatted decks, and
the most up to date version of the algorithm.

I've experimented with using the website (mostly because I'm a fan of the
software). It's mostly okay. I've been using Supermemo (the actual app) for a
few years now on a daily basis. The app itself has a trial if you can find a
download link somewhere, and I believe the site might be free if you import
your own decks.

As far as lock in, I believe you are also locked in unfortunately. This would
be another reason to go with Anki or another solution if you just want
flashcards.

------
neikos
The choice for me was quite simple, paying once for the great Anki app, or
monthly subscriptions for SuperMemo?

Since I abhor the subscription trend it made picking easy.

~~~
sy7ar
The actual desktop SuperMemo app (supermemo 17 I believe) is not subscription
based and is way way more powerful (but also convoluted and somewhat outdated
UX wise). The web supermemo is dumb down and mainly for language learning.

~~~
jammygit
Can't use the desktop one easily on Linux however, and can't study on the
train with it unless I'm mistaken.

------
victor106
I am an Anki user and would love to try SM but the UI is so clunky it is so
hard to use. I wish someone put together a comprehensive guide/book on using
SM. I went through a few on YouTube from the creator of SM and they were okay
but it was still hard to use.

------
jammygit
Supermemo web doesn't let you export your cards. Maybe there's a way to do it,
but I'm using anki so I never lose my cards in case the service goes away or
has data loss

------
Scarbutt
What makes anki not suitable for "incremental reading" ( interleaving between
reading and remembering) ?

~~~
YOUTHFULdabber
There is most certainly a way to do 'incremental reading' in Anki, though it
must be done manually. You can do virtually any type of reviewing in Anki with
its high degree of customization.

------
popcorncolonel
This article comes at the perfect time for me, while I'm about to choose a
tool to read Japanese sentences!

------
qwerty456127
Is there a SuperMemo-like tool for Linux?

------
AlexCoventry
I'm a bit surprised these systems still pay off for people. How many contexts
require learning large bodies of unrelated facts, these days? Everything's
just a google away. Even in the past, the only context where I would have used
a system like this is language acquisition, and it's pretty clear that machine
translation is going to surpass me very soon, if it hasn't already.

For me, most interesting work involves conceptually coherent bodies of
knowledge. Learn the conceptual framework, and you'll remember the details by
partial reconstruction as you need them. At least, that's how it usually works
for me.

~~~
ken
All of them except programming, I'd say. That sounds like a 2000's-programmer-
centric view of the world. Modern software is unique among all the fields I've
worked in, in that it combines:

\- people routinely working on systems far too complex for them to ever
understand fully, and which often change completely on the timescale of weeks
or months

\- all the relevant data on the web in a format (like error messages or
function names) that's easy for google to index, and easy for users to type

\- people sitting in front of internet-connected computers anyway, and
sufficient time slop that the team doesn't need an instantaneous answer

When I was knee-deep in water at an archaeological dig 15 years ago and my
professor called out "What species of tree is that by your knee?", or when I
was working on the catwalk last week and my lead called over "Check that the
instrument in front of you is safe", googling it would have been completely
infeasible, for several reasons. They'd just replace me with someone who knows
what they're doing.

> Learn the conceptual framework, and you'll remember the details by partial
> reconstruction as you need them.

When I took organic chemistry, they taught the special cases of each reaction
type first, and then generalized them at the end of the year. When I took
engineering physics, they made us start with the generalized form first, and
then we had to derive the specifics as needed. At the time, I was frustrated
by the chemistry approach (why didn't you tell us there was a simpler form?!),
but 20 years later, I remember a lot more chemistry than physics (even though
my grades in physics were much better). I might be able to fumble through an
SN2 reaction if I needed to, but I'm sure I couldn't do anything at all useful
with Maxwell's Equations.

