
Ask HN: How do you cope with loneliness? - krmboya
Even in a CS class (in this part of the world anyway), not so many people might be as interested in coding as you are.
It's therefore you and your laptop mostly, with the effect that you lag behind in developing social skills (I sometimes feel like an 8 year old among teenagers). The loneliness even saps my programming energy.
Does anyone else experience the same, and how do you cope with it, including bringing yourself to interacting with members of the opposite sex?<p>EDIT: Not suicidal or anything like that. Just want to hear you opinions.
======
DeusExMachina
Use your loneliness as an advantage. How? Being lonely means that you don't
belong to any group and are free to move as you see fit. This is what I did,
and it worked.

I assume that you start from 0 friends (I did, since I moved to another
country some months ago). Start knowing someone close and easy: classmates,
colleagues, occasional acquaintances, but beware not to be stuck with someone
as lonely as you. Your objective is to expand from there. You can also go to
special events or meetups made for people who want to know other people. Or go
to some course for something you like (I dance Tango, for example). Once you
know someone, try to go out with these people as much as you can: they will
have other friends you can be introduced to.

Parties are a good way of doing this. Me and my friends occasionally host
dinners or small parties in our houses. People are encouraged to bring new
friends, which allows you to know more people. If nobody of your friends
organizes some party, start the trend. If you have 3 friends and they bring a
new one each, you will be already a group of 7, which is enough for a
dinner/small party. Organizing one is really easy, you just need a living
room, some snacks/food, some drinks.

This will almost solve your loneliness problems from a friends point of view.
Members of the other sex specifically are a little more complicated. But if
you do as I described above you will definitely be able to know some. After a
while you can start going out alone with them. For example, I am dating some
girls I met at the tango course and at some party. I know couples who formed
this way.

~~~
stcredzero
If you like dancing, then I too highly recommend dancing! A majority of my
(admittedly largely disastrous) romantic life was based on dancing. Note: this
only works if you like it and you're good at it. The latter often results
naturally from the former.

Parties are also great. My current relationship was the result of going to a
School of Public Health crêpe party.

~~~
mdda
Seconded for Dancing. But you don't have to be good at it...

Everyone who starts learning the Waltz or ChaCha (or Swing, or Tango) is
appalling at it. And it's pretty liberating to be in a group of people all of
whom are happy klutzes.

At my (pretty tech-centric) university, the dance club had over 2000 members :
the key selling point for the guys being 'girls like to dance'. And learning
steps together has a logic component (so it's satisfying to see yourself
getting better), but also a huge WTF component - which takes everyone out of
their comfort zone in a good way.

Don't worry about the excellent dancers showing off : they'll be taking other
classes.

~~~
stcredzero
I didn't say great or excellent, just good. If you don't like it, you won't
get good. Competence is sexy. Shared WTF will get you started, but that's
about it. Shared passion is another level entirely.

~~~
mdda
Agreed - and I'd be the first to admit that I personally took getting
competent too far (and that in itself starts getting less social, since it's
hours of practice each week with just one partner).

However, the basic initial win for the OP is to get out of the house, and have
a blast learning something with a bunch of other people. The aim doesn't have
to be to get good - it's a major step just to turn up. I was just trying to
suggest that every beginner will be in much the same boat. IMHO, learning to
dance is a much easier social activity than 'going to parties', for instance.

------
edburgess
You're a programmer right? You build web apps and stuff? When you build one
and launch it out into the world, do you expect everyone to drop everything
and flock to your website? I hope not. You need to reach out, as uncomfortable
as it might be, and engage people. It's hard work.

Now let's take your personal life. When you're at your computer most of the
day, do you expect people to magically gravitate to you and be your friend? If
so, you're living in a Field of Dreams. You're fooling yourself.

Try Rejection Therapy: <http://www.rejectiontherapy.com>. It's like a radical
new form of networking. I've heard so many amazing stories of people pushing
past their fear to make a rejection, and it ends up starting an amazing new
friendship.

Stop being attached to outcomes. Stop being obedient to fear. Stop driving
down that same road, day after day. You'll end up in the same lonely
destination. Put on the 4 wheel drive and start off-roading into new
territory. It's exhilarating.

People want to meet you, but you have to meet them halfway.

For inspiration, look at how this guy does it:
<http://sneakylittlefox.tumblr.com/>

~~~
JofArnold
Absolutely agree with this. And I'll add to it also, if I may (it might seem
slightly off-topic at first, but there is a point)

I used to be very shy (I still am in some specific ways) and one of the
consequences I didn't realise at the time is that I had no idea where my true
boundaries were.

So I challenged myself to discover them with initially small tasks; stuff as
basic as "keeping eye contact when handing over change to a clerk" that sort
of thing. I'd then progress to starting conversations with people in queues,
going to bars on my own and trying to make friends and so on and so forth.

I'm very aware that at all points to an outsider I was probably acting a
little weird (in the same way that someone learning to rollerskate looks a bit
silly), but progressively these tests pushed my boundaries further and
further. I even turned it into a bit of a game, trying to find more and more
elaborate ways to make myself uncomfortable... I soon discovered that no
matter how nerve-wracking and scary these encounters were, I never ended up
harmed.

The net result is a compound benefit a/ the confidence to be able to the
social things I want b/ a million amusing anecdotes to tell new people I meet
when I do those things. Now it's pretty hard to be lonely, because it's easy
to strike up a great conversation with almost anyone and find some
amusing/interesting common ground.

Hope that helps a little.

~~~
sizzla
The little tasks you assigned to yourself to try and tackle at least the low
hanging fruit are in a way core to the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. CBT is
the most often used form of psychotherapy not in small part due to its
reported effectiveness. It's great to hear your story, thanks.

------
sizzla
I've met brilliant 30+ year olds who were still on the 8 year old level you
describe.

You need to adjust your value system until you don't feel like you've been
wasting time by working on yourself rather than your software project.

Be prepared for horrible failures in the same fashion that you expect
segfaults the first few hundred times you code in assembly. Segfaults wouldn't
shake your confidence, neither should a girl who is either not interested or
openly annoyed by you.

Take a lot more risk and be prepared to fail hard and make a total moron out
of yourself. You will still feel better than just cocooning yourself.

Listen. Don't judge the cool, preppy, jock, whatever guys, observe what they
do and how they talk, dress, etc. You're not trying to be like them, but
you're just learning like you are when you are reading source code or
reference manuals.

Do not intellectually dominate. You will draw attention to yourself and lose
all the opportunity to learn. Observe other people's sense of humor. Is yours
too confined to stuff only the reddit crowd would laugh at?

Read bullshit magazines like Maxim. There is so much crap in there, but
there's some truth too and they are very direct about it.

Ideally, try to get a good friend who is a girl and not a geek. Forget about
ever hooking up with this girl, she is there just to give you feedback on how
you look like when you say or do some things and how your appearance/dress
affects others. If you have a sister/cousin, even better, ask for feedback.

------
hexadecimator
I went through 14 years of Catholic schools before going to university.

When I started out, I realised that everyone else was new like me so I took
initiative and introduced people to each other, etc. At the time I was very
excited about going there because I would meet new people, people like me.

People kinda picked up on that vibe when I started I guess. To be honest, I
normally wasn't like that. But anyway, I realised quickly that if you are the
kind of person who is seen as friendly, approachable, etc. then people will
want to hang out with you, and invite you to things, etc.

An important thing to realise as well is, you don't really have a lot of
common interests to be friends with people. I've met great people over the
years who were totally different to me. Having things in common helps but,
relationships in general to me are more about understanding, not checking off
a list of things we both like.

Being on your laptop really isn't an excuse not to socialise. Most of my time
in my CS classes was spent in the lab, with a laptop sure, but I mean people
need to eat and of course have their all important coffee breaks... or even
just to get up and walk around for a bit. The thing is, if you're seen to just
spend all your time alone / on your laptop then people will just assume things
like you're busy / don't want to be disturbed etc.

As for members of the opposite sex, well, I can say that things got better for
me as I got older. It might seem like a really big deal now but when you look
back years later, you might not feel that way.

For approaching women, dating, etc, know that chances are if you're new to the
game, you will screw up. That's nothing to be worried about or take personally
though.

I see you're doing CS so I mean, chances are when you started programming you
will have made mistakes along the way, even basic syntax errors. Heck, you can
still write software for years and still make mistakes. So I mean, it's like
anything really just practice and you'll get better.

~~~
lief79
Focus on creating a coed group of friends, it makes it far easier to get
feedback from both sexes, as well as expand it from both sides. If you're
capable of being a friend with a girl, it makes it much easier to sustain a
more complicated relationship. Then again I had an odd group of friends where
exs tended to stay friends. (I had 4 exs as guests at my wedding.)

------
davidw
Here's something that worked for me: salsa dancing. It's fun, and good music,
and it's a great way to meet lots of women in a brief span of time, if you go
to the right sort of places (avoid the ones where it's all about seasoned
couples showing off their repertoire of crazy moves). Also, you learn to shrug
off the 'no thanks' that you'll of course receive. I should also add that it's
an acquired skill, and very much about a man dancing with a woman, so it's not
like dancing in some random place where everyone sort of shuffles around in
tune to the music.

~~~
lief79
I've done salsa, but always preferred swing. At least in Philly, the salsa
crowd takes it self far more seriously, and the swing dancing crowd seems to
attract more of an intellectual crowd.

On the same note, the salsa events tend to be at nightclubs/bars, while the
swing events are at dance floors. I suspect I just prefer the environment.

~~~
davidw
Yeah, I suspect finding the right environment is the important thing. In
Padova, a friend and I found a really great bar where they do salsa, which was
full of people having a good time rather than people showing just how awesome
their talents were.

------
pavs
“If you’re lonely when you’re alone, you’re in bad company.” ﻿- Satre

~~~
Knack
I don't know how this should help. There's a difference between social
isolation and not being able to be alone from time to time.

~~~
pavs
It helped me. I think it depends on someone's outlook on being alone is. I am
an introverted guy so I enjoy being alone more than being with other people
(small company is fine occasionally). Some of the bad feelings some people
have towards being alone comes from the social pressure of "if you are alone
something is wrong with you".

If you can get over the feeling that there is nothing wrong with being alone,
you might actually enjoy being alone.

But of course everyone is different. This might not work for everyone.

------
pavelludiq
Coping with loneliness is a temporary fix(speaking from experience here), you
have to get rid of it.

Im not sure exactly how, but during the last 6-7 years(im 21) I've slowly
transformed from the typical socially awkward super shy nerd kid, to a
somewhat social friendly nerd. It didn't happen in a day, i just slowly opened
up to people, I slowly learned the social rules, practiced them, and now i
speak social as a second language, even though i still have a strong nerd
accent. Even though i still prefer to be alone in my room on my PC, with my
slime repl, i still get drunk with my friends at least once every two weeks,
or go out to play pool, or hang out in coffe shops, or go to lan parties.

------
cullenking
I got out of my self-induced mode of minimal outside contact by regularly (3x
times a week) going to the climbing gym. You go regularly, you meet a bunch of
people who regularly go, and there is no pressure to do anything but chat
about your common interest, rock climbing. It's fun to hang out in a casual
way with people when there is a focus...Some people like to casually hang out
at parties and don't need an activity, but that isn't me.

With an example like the rock gym, you can take it as far as you want. You can
just be friendly and another regular at the gym, or you can slowly work your
way into climbing trips with other regulars, etc. Not to mention, you get in
great shape.

BTW, you can replace rock gym with ____ readily (above comments mention
dancing), the key is to have a common activity that is fun and lends itself to
interaction, learning how to break the ice, etc etc.

------
codedivine
Join a few meetup groups in the city. For example, there might be technical
meetup groups about Linux, Python etc as well as non-technical meetup groups
about a ton of interesting activities like music or food or various hobbies.
Various foreign language conversation groups can also be interesting. I found
a few meetups through meetup.com and Craigslist and even started one or two.

The other suggestion would be to maintain the friendships you already have!
Don't forget them even if you are in a new city now. I regularly call up old
friends and my family and ask how they are doing.

------
epo
Start small, learn how to make small talk when you're out and about, shop
assistants that sort of thing, get used to talking with strangers.

Learn to listen, this is _the_ secret to getting on with females. The other
secret, when they tell you about a problem, don't immediately give them your
suggestion for a solution, often you're being talked at, don't think you're
being asked for an answer, you almost never are.

The only way to develop social skills is ... get out and about and interact,
find people with common interests, above all make an effort. The onus is on
you to do all the work.

------
banjo
I have no specific advice for you but I had a similar experience during my
youth and I can convey some advice that an old mentor gave me at the time:

If you find something you are passionate about and share it with others you
will not have to find friends, they will find you.

------
yason
Are you willing to hang around with _any_ people that don't mind you hanging
around? If not, then your loneliness is a choice. Maybe an unconscious one but
still, a choice. In that case you have _chosen to value_ your alone time more
than the social time with people you possibly don't click with. At this point
you are aware of something you feel you deserve, having rejected the things
you feel you don't deserve.

------
hardy263
I was in your situation a couple of months ago, but I realized that joining a
club/team is the easiest way to meet people who share the same interests as
you.

If you want to meet other programmers or people who are similar to you, join a
CS or Robotics club. If you want to meet different kinds of people, join a
sports team.

I noticed that tech people tend to float towards techy things, but a whole
variety of people do sports, and that trend was visible both in high school
and university. On my dragon boat team, there are people from every faculty on
the team, even other CS people.

So it depends on how you want to meet people. Staying in your room programming
is definitely not going to make you meet new people. If you want to know a lot
of different people, a team is your best bet, because they usually have team-
building games or social events where they go out to eat or have fun.

------
cies
a friend told me once that "friendship is based on trust and mutual
interests". maybe not 100% true, but not a bad starting point i think.

it is easy to work on these. just look at people you tend to trust easily, and
eminate the qualities that allow you to trust them. (act well grounded, speak
slowly and softly, look people in the eyes when talking to them, act caring)

nurturing broad interests is also not too hard: decide often you think
somehting is interesting... nobody likes everything, but not liking (or
disliking) something clearly raises barriers in getting to know new people.
for instance i dont care much for football (soccer), actually i dont care much
for sports in general: by this i miss out on a lot of easy socializing. [i
consider to start liking sports just for this reason]

for making intimate relations (opposite sex or same sex, im openminded here) i
suggest using the friendship route. just build a friendship, but make sure to
let know you are interested in getting intimate in a polite manner: a long
hug, a kiss on the cheek, a hand kiss, expressing you really like him/her.
rejection is not a big of a deal when you build friendship first -- it is not
bad to have friends that you would like to get intimate with but are not.

it helps to get intimate with people if you feel comfy with your body. so
dance, practice yoga, taichi, sports, gym, or what ever... i prefer dance. :)

please let me know if this was helpful advice.

------
kolinko
How old are you and where do you live?

This is similar to how I felt during my two-three years of university.

Some people already suggested that, but I will repeat: \- find a hobby outside
of computers (like Salsa) \- sign up in an NGO (Toastmasters, AIESEC in my
case) \- cut off internet cord to force yourself to program outside of your
home \- absolutely remove all instant messengers, ircs etc. if you want to
socialize with people then go out and eat lunch with them. if you don't know
any people irl (or afk ;) then go and meet some on networking meetings /
parties

Perhaps the most important thing is that you need to broaden your horizons. I
know it may sound like a heresy, but a good programmer is a one that "feels
the real world". If you lack social skills and you lack interests outside of
programming then this _will_ influence the quality of your work.

Why? For one - you will have problems working in a team of programmers. Two -
if you're into anything else than low-level systems programming then you will
need to interact with people who are not programmers. Not understanding normal
users will hurt your career a lot.

Oh - and if your city doesn't have enough people interested in programming
then move as soon as possible. Living far away from a community will hurt a
lot (if you want to be really good).

------
Knack
Often it's a vicious circle. You're shy, introverted with a lack of self
esteem. So you start avoiding social interaction. Also if you're in an
interaction you can't enjoy it. You often are afraid to act non-conformal.
Avoidance leads to less self-esteem and social skills and so on.

You need to tackle the problem on all fronts.

1) This is about your learned behaviour. You have to relearn. As some
mentioned before, do some training. Stuff like going out alone. There're
programs for stuff like that. Do it professional! That's the most important
thing right now in your life! Don't rely only on internet ressource, even if
they can be a great inspiration. Go to a therapist if you think that your
shyness (or social phobia) is a problem, e.g. if you can't go to salsa dancing
because you're to shy. You _must_ break the avoidance circle.

2) Work on your own thinking process. Often, people don't know their own needs
or don't dare to stand up for them and try to compensate by being great to get
attention. That's a dead-end street. If you don't understand how you "work",
the training ( 1) ) can only be of shallow impact. It's really important to
unveil your thougts and emotions. I like the Yoga approach very much. To me,
it's sound and practical. swamij.com is the greatest resource on the planet.
It's a lot and takes time to understand. You could start at the articles about
Karma. The kind of awareness and unattachment you step by step achieve makes
you stronger. Stronger to understand and handle your legitimate desires.
(which does not mean, supress them. In your case, don't supress your
loneliness but go out to socialise. But overcome your fear and go to the salsa
dancing event.)

------
wallflower
I can't tell you the number of times that Hacker News has helped lift my day.
Also, going to a coffee shop with a book works short-term wonders. There are
times where I question my short-term goals (finish client work) when they
prevent me from hanging out with friends (deadline).

Get a cat or a dog. Sitting alone in my house with my crazy cat is better than
being alone.

------
Ixiaus
I will also echo the advice to start dancing. It will teach you much more
about male and female interactions (particularly intimate ones) then just
"going to parties"; the only other subject matter I know of that would do it
faster is Pick Up. You also make a lot of really great friends who love to
have fun. There's nothing like going to the Salsa club on a Thursday and
Friday night with your "Salsa group" and dancing away the night till 3AM -
sure beats being lonely to me.

I really like what DeusExMachina had to say about using your loneliness as an
advantage. You are free to move about and if you learn how to be secure in
that as well as socially capable "on-the-fly" you will be able to go anywhere
and do anything without fear of people and without fear of no-people. You are
in a much better place than just "loneliness" and all it takes is a shift in
your attitude towards it (IMHO) for something to blossom from it.

\----

Here's a bit of my own story, maybe it will help give you some perspective:

I'm naturally a loner, I prefer to be self-sufficient but love very much
having fun with people that know me; I believe in personal autonomy and
freedom from the need for peer-based validation that many of us are raised to
seek. I believe friendships are healthier when they are "I want" rather than
"I need".

I wasn't always so calm and confident about my social presence though. Five
years ago, a new city, and loner behavior had me yearning for a social outlet
- I had just moved to Vegas, which is (in addition to my social short-comings)
notorious for its cold social climate and hidden, niche social groups.

After deciding that I was definitely depressed I made my mind up to remedy the
silly situation. I remember coming across a website called meetup.com and
quickly started searching for one of my favorite activities [hiking] on their
website. A year later, I was happier, had many more casual friends and was
going on three to four weekly hikes all around Las Vegas (Vegas is _awesome_
for outdoors because it is so close to many great locations). I was also being
constantly invited out to singles parties, volleyball games, bbqs, and 2AM
treks by moonlight to the Goldstrike hotsprings on the Colorado river. I'm
also an avid snowboarder and had a number of great bonding experiences with
some of my regular hiking buddies doing that.

All of this though and my interaction with the opposite sex was still lacking
and uneventful - I was wanting more fulfillment there.

Then, one day, a hiking acquaintance emailed me and said I should try out
Salsa dancing; interested, I showed up for a Tuesday night class, fumbled like
an idiot (we all do for the first three weeks) but really enjoyed the
experience. The next class was Friday night and the class was going to go to a
local Salsa club afterward. FYI, it's particularly helpful, when starting out,
to go with your class to a club because it provides you with other newbie
women to dance with and people to shoot-the-shit with on the sidelines when
you don't feel like dancing. This is _very_ important because experienced
Salsa dancers tend to ignore the noobs - much more so women than men, because
if you can't lead there's no dance.

The class+club experience changed me for life. I forced myself to "scout" the
club and get up the balls to ask a girl to dance. That act is one of the most
frightening in the world; I've done back country powder runs off of 60ft
cliffs and that doesn't even compare to the feeling of walking up to a
gorgeous (even more gorgeous when she's dancing), critical, and experienced
woman and asking her for a dance - especially after having watched her be lead
like a pro by another hot, well dressed, and experienced dancer. But you do it
and do it again and sooner or later your dancing will get better and the
regulars at the club will remember you - women who dance regularly at a club
go there for connection, so being goofy, fun and conversive on the dance floor
won me their affections. Unlike a lot of men, I also had the balls to ask them
for a dance; I was also improving very quickly.

I'm now at the point where I dance for a Salsa team, made numerous casual
friendships, and had made a couple of girlfriends out of those I met while
dancing. Salsa is a social hobby, I do it casually like most people go to the
movies except I'm using my body, meeting fun people, and interacting with the
opposite sex in an intimate manner most of us in the West don't get to do
_anywhere_ else. Salsa, if you love it, will become a big part of your life.

I won't bore everyone with the rest of my personal life story but I do hope
this is an inspiring comment for you and anyone else that ever "deals" with
their loneliness rather than actually embracing it and doing something about
it.

------
t3rse
Like many responding I understand your situation at least in part. One thing
that helped me during my lonelier times was mailing lists. If you have a
specific interest, see if you can find a mailing list hwere you'll find people
with similar interests and geekiness. For me that was music, for you it could
be something different entirely.

It may sound strange but I find a lot of friendship just in people's words -
old books that I've carried with me through the years, literary critics, dead
philosophers, internet famous (like PG) programmers who I've never met in
person, and so on. An essay like "Why nerds are unpopular" goes a long way to
getting some perspective on why you might be different.

Finally, as others mentioned, use the loneliness to your advantage. There may
come a time where you're married with kids and your blissful moments of quiet
come when you're on the can.

This too shall pass, make the most of it.

------
Goladus
Go see your family. If you can't, find a good housemate.

Also, host parties or social gatherings in your home.

Hosting a party in your home is great practice if you have trouble socially.
It takes some work and planning, but most anyone can learn to do it. It forces
you to take some responsibility for entertaining guests, and to relax ssome of
the control you maintain over your personal domain. You won't be able to spend
the entire time avoiding attention.

It does help, though, to have handy at least one socially outgoing person who
is comfortable leading conversation beyond the typical introductory chit-chat.

Oh, and it doesn't have to be a drinking party or a dinner party. You might
gather to play games (card/video/board), discuss books, or watch sports, TV
shows, or a movie. I mention sports and TV shows because they're more
conducive to breaks for conversation than a movie.

------
forgottenpaswrd
Do you lag in developing social skills?

I have met very social people that moved to a new place, had 0 friends and you
know what? they made new friends on weeks time(I'm talking from Spain). Do
they have so good "social skills", no. The reason they made new friends
quickly is because they love people and enjoyed being with other people
instead of staying home thinking about excuses.

Your laptop, CS class is no excuse. Just remember, no excuses, just go out and
meet people. If your brain stops you, refuse to think and do it, experience,
don't plan. People is going to see you are alone,face it like a man, but it
will change fast as you make new friends.

------
ericmsimons
Being lonely is easily one of the best things that has ever happened to me.
When I was in high school I was quite social, never found myself alone.

Since high school I have become an entrepreneur. I can count the number of
friends I have on one hand (not including acquaintances) - and I'm 100% fine
with that. The more relationships you actively participate in, the less time
you have to code, work, and change the world.

Just make sure you have enough really close friends to count on one hand and
you're fine :) I'm always glad to be your friend too! eric@esft.com

------
seltzered
Is there a ACM club or something similar (robotics perhaps?) at your school?
If not, it can't hurt to try to start one and attract others with the same
problem as you. You never know how many others at your school may be feeling
the same way, even if it's just a couple others.

disclaimer: if you do start a club, make sure it doesn't become too elitist or
cultish, I felt really out of place because I didn't know anything at a
robotics club before, but once the seniors left we restructured it to be more
inviting to folks with a will to learn.

------
joshhart
I had this problem 4 years ago. I joined a fraternity. It was awesome. Was it
juvenile sometimes? Yes. Was it one of the best decisions I've ever made? Yes.
It greatly widened my social circle and introduced me to people I'd never have
met otherwise. Plus, I met my soon to be wife from a function there. I never
would have met her slogging through engineering.

Also, I've been in the work force about a year and a half, and I think the
social skills I learned were probably more important in the long run than the
technical ones.

------
checker659
I have the exact same problem in my CS class. I cope with the issue by coming
to HN or more recently, by reading up stuff on programming related sub-reddits
(/r/programming, /r/python etc.).

~~~
sizzla
I am ill and bed-ridden right now otherwise I wouldn't have time to comment so
much on HN or read reddit.

I am not sure your "real-world" social skills will improve through reading
reddit. It takes real time investment and accepting that you will fumble, fail
and make a lot of mistakes. HN people often talk about how domain expertise
rarely transfer easily into another domain and here's a perfect example.

------
larsalan
You may come to find that 95% of people are assholes anyway. And the remaining
5% are perfect assholes. I don't too much believe in friends just different
people with different agendas. I would say of all the people I've met in my
life >=.01% where for any period of time actually friends. If anything work on
diplomacy and worry about yourself. As for members of the other sex, just
remember they're after the same thing you are only thing is their brains are
fu¢ked.

~~~
paolomaffei
Sucks to be you. Enjoy life my friend, is not as bad you might think :)

~~~
mantas
I doubt he doesn't enjoy life. It's possible to enjoy life with such attitude
too. And actually it's quite easy.

And no emotional hangover after "friends" fail you!

~~~
hugh3
You and the OP both have some serious issues. Don't listen to either of them.

Actually, the two of you have a lot in common. Maybe you guys should be
friends!

------
robyates
If you are still in college, do _study abroad_.

It's a great way to meet new people, both from your home country and the
country you are visiting. Living in one country you get accustomed to a
certain way of life, so this can help you break out of your comfort zone to
try new things. Studying abroad was really an eye opening experience for me;
definitely one of the best decisions I ever made.

Also, have you tried dancing? :) As Woody Allen said, "80 percent of success
is showing up."

------
rl1987
Some suggestions:

1\. Go to events that thematically match your interests. If you're an
university student, that probably will be attending student conference or
science fair. You'll definitely find people like yourself there. It helps if
you participate and show your work to others. I met a number of smart people
this way. 2\. Considering getting in some research group. Not only you will
find people to talk to, but also it will help you grow professionally.

------
hugh3
_Even in a CS class (in this part of the world anyway), not so many people
might be as interested in coding as you are._

So you're having trouble relating to people because they're not as interested
in coding as you are? Sounds like what you really need is a broader range of
interests.

I can't tell you what you should be interested in. All I can tell you is that
there's a lot more to life than sitting around coding, and university is the
perfect time to experience it.

------
ComputerGuru
Get a job outside the dorm/studio/home to fill your free time. Get a cat. Play
RPG games.

(not being sarcastic, that's how I dealt with my five years of university)

~~~
LaGrange
Upvoted, but I have a small disagreement: do NOT take a cat (or any animal)
while lonely. You won't truly get rid of loneliness, but you will decrease
your motivation (by providing small distractions). Animals are fun, but get
friends first.

------
Roboprog
Join a volunteer group, or perhaps a church (that actually does something
useful). Mix with non computer people, and contribute to your community. You
will feel better about yourself, and help others. Appreciate what others do
for school or a living, and they will appreciate what you do, rather than try
to run a rivalry.

------
T_S_
Get a dog. Seriously. Cures loneliness. Great prep for human relationships.
Also puppies are people magnets.

------
swah
I'm not practicing it, but you can always go to a totally different place
where you can just be a more social person (gym, some art class, etc).

OTOH, I'm do not envy those folks that are friends of everyone and anyone.
Frequently they are lonely too, on a deeper level.

------
Jd
Whenever I feel lonely I review this classic comment from proggit:

[http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac295/fractastical/ui2ik9...](http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac295/fractastical/ui2ik9181fa766dviewattth12365bf99d5.jpg)

------
Gilson_Silveira
I know how you feel.

When I went to university I went to a different city, I was completely lonely.
Back then, I decided to focus only on the course and tried to learn as much as
I could. As a result I've got several friends. Good times :)

------
CoachRufus87
I party/get drunk with my non-programmer friends at least once every 3 weeks.

------
fleitz
This is precisely how and possibly the best answer I've ever heard:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7X7sZzSXYs>

------
tjansen
Beside Salsa dancing (where I met my girlfriend 3 years ago), I can also
recommend meetin.org - at least for people who are 25 or older it's a great
way to meet people and hang out.

------
ethyreal
in my experience it has been moments these that have forced me to grow, forced
my out of my comfort zone. more often then not resulting in new friends.

its a lot like traveling alone verses traveling with friends. if you have
friends around you are less likely to talk to those around you.. conversely
when you alone.. the only way to meet others is to talk to them.

over time i became better at it, and now i almost prefer to start out
someplace alone, slowly building new relationships.

------
delinquentme
being un lonely all starts with your own operations ...

first decide what you'll do ... ONLY THEN .. who to bring along

and theres MUCH subcontext that gets conveyed through communications

if you believe you're lonely .. thats going to seep out into your interactions

so find hobbies to unlone yourself ! lol

im also a big fan of IRC ... ive added tons of Facebook friends from IRC
channels ... AND they're got really quality topics to talk about

------
juiceandjuice
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propinquity>

------
ra
Check out meetup.com - I expect you will find there are local meetups of
programmers in your area.

------
binarymax
I got a dog. Seriously. I'm cured.

------
radley
there's beer out there. go forth.

------
mantas
I'm in a similar situation. Although I got it pretty much under control.

\----Long story alert----

Back in high school, in-class socialising with little out-of-school chit chats
was enough for me. Few meetups here or there and the rest of time knees-deep
in code and/or listening to music.

After high school I went freelancing and traveling way (2 foreign countries in
different continents in 2 years, back in my home country now). Living 10k
kilometers away from everybody you know is quite a loneliness :) I handled it
quite well the first time, but got stuck quite worse the next time (too rural
area). Also had same problems when moved back home - some old friends went
abroad, some are quite different people now.

\----Long story alert----

tl;dr been lonely badly in foreign places, managed to fix that

Few things that didn't work:

\- Be dragged into parties I didn't like (theme or people) - there's nothing
worse than mandatory socialising

\- Locking myself in and working all around the clock

\- Choosing money/savings over going out/socialising/traveling - you can't
work unless you're sane. Saving in this area causes lower productivity and
even less food on the table in the long run. Although it's always possible to
go out cheaper :)

Few things that did work (works best when you use few of them!):

\- Get out of town. Cycling and hiking works best for me. It's a nice way to
keep yourself busy, while enjoying new experiences. Also, it's easy to
socialize this way. Just say Hi! to anyone on the trial. Small chit chat will
follow naturally. And health benefits is a nice bonus!

\- Go to public parks, squares etc. Take a book or whatever (no headphones,
this will cut your off from outside world) and just hang out there. Even if
you're not lucky to score some random conversions, being around other people
gives that warm socialising feeling

\- Hit the streets. Just go for a walk. Better hit busy downtown streets -
more possibilities for conversations, more being-around-other-people feeling.
Again, without headphones/music works better.

\- Pick up an indoor hobby. Reading, building models... Whatever works for you
(although for me PC-based hobbies didnt work well..) Just enjoy yourself.

\- Rock shows. Enjoy music, get a few drinks, talk to random people, party..
Evening well spent + maybe new friends or at least socialising/being in a
crowd feeling :) Not sure about non-rock music based events, never been there.

\- Hit the bars. Go to bars alone and start talking to strangers. Although
this is one of the hardest things, requires a lot of courage :) But results
are quite good.

edit: messed up smth with formatting, looks ok now...

------
berntb
I cope badly.

I've had to work from home since a few months, because of a strange allergy
reaction at work.

It is depressing.

This seems to be the only major city on the planet where there aren't lots of
nice cafes to work from. Otherwise, that is what I would do.

I've noted the same effect in others and also hopes for good answers to your
question.

For the record: I like people but have limits, since I'm really quite
introvert.

~~~
sizzla
The comfort of being alone and not interacting awkwardly currently outweighs
your resolve to solve this problem.

It's hard to self-diagnose with introversion, you might just be seriously
depressed and not willing to admit it to yourself, but I don't know you at all
so all this is maybe BS.

~~~
berntb
Good thinking; you are often wrong when generating hypotheses about yourself
and they are hard to test.

But I've seen it in myself at other times over the last decades, too.

(I didn't know introspection was harder for introverted? Reference?)

~~~
sizzla
I wouldn't say introspection was harder for introverted and I definitely would
have no reference for that.

It's just that introversion is a personality trait whose meaning was
overloaded by pop-culture and pop-psychology. Stuff by Freud, Jung, Eyesenck,
Myers-Briggs, etc. is useful to know as much as it is useful to know about the
work done at Xerox in the 70s and 80s. Informative and a foundation for later
work, but by no means current.

This [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-
Briggs_Type_Indicator#Rel...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-
Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability)

will tell you about just how inaccurate it is to take a classic test like
MBTI. While there is something to be said about personality traits and nature
vs nurture, Psychological Types are so 1923.

There was a lot more concrete research done in the last 20 years on depression
and related mood disorders as it is somewhat of a modern-day plague (OK plague
is too harsh, can someone help me with a disease analogy here?).

~~~
berntb
I was trying to use the term "introverted", which isn't exclusive to Myers-
Briggs. Sorry for the confusion.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introverted>

~~~
sizzla
Cool, understood. Just keep in mind that most psychologists will tell you that
you are (or you can be) by and large in full control of your personality
traits and that these things can change dramatically through your life, either
through your conscious decision or through environmental influences.

So to make a determination over why you are the way you are based on how you
perceive yourself in terms of a personality trait category that (Jung or not)
is related to the Psychology of Types is doing a bit of that self-fulfilling
prophecy.

There's nothing wrong with preferring to keep to yourself and socialize less
frequently, but perhaps it would be wise to rule out other hypotheses (like,
really really convince yourself that there's not something else bothering you
in life). That's as far as I can speculate, because although I might claim you
might not be consciously aware of the whole story, I am even less aware, it's
just a pattern that I noticed with some friends and some of them, years later,
refer to those periods as periods of depression, some of them even talked to a
good psychologist about it.

------
shareme
When I was at Purdue University, Molecular Biology is just as lonely, I joined
an International House a fraternity that housed us and non us students in one
place with weekly parties.

The weekly parties were set up as cultural exchanges where we had interesting
meals, presentations and social gatherings.

If it is a State or non-state USA college I am sure that one of these types of
fraternities exists to help the social interaction aspect.

