
Leonardo da Vinci’s resume - pmcpinto
http://www.cenedella.com/leonardo-da-vincis-resume-4
======
ColinWright
Lots of people concentrate on the language, but it's the approach and attitude
that's critical. Quoting from the article:

    
    
        You'll notice he doesn’t recite past achievements.
        He doesn't mention the painting of the altarpiece
        for the Chapel of St. Bernard; he doesn't provide
        a laundry list ... (snip)
    
        No, he does none of these things, because those
        would be about his achievements, not the Duke's
        needs.
    
        Instead, he sells his prospective employer on what
        Leonardo can do for him.
    

I see _so_ many job applications that are exactly a laundry list of
achievements, and _nothing_ about what the applicant could do for me.

    
    
        And that’s exactly what your resume needs to do,
        too. Not the laundry list/standard bio that talks
        about you, but the marketing piece that talks
        about the benefits to your future employer and
        how you fit into his or her needs and desires.
    

This got a lot of discussion some years ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2234231](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2234231)

More recent submissions, less so:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3857531](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3857531)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4662582](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4662582)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7497155](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7497155)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9393330](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9393330)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9395139](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9395139)

Have HN's tastes changed? Has it simply not been noticed?

~~~
tjradcliffe
> I see so many job applications that are exactly a laundry list of
> achievements, and nothing about what the applicant could do for me.

There is another side to this, which is that many job ads don't provide
anything like enough information for candidates to do that.

Most job ads tell us what skills are desired, and a tiny bit about the
industry the company works in, and even less about the specific project the
candidate would be focused on. It's difficult for me to tell you, "I can bring
your galambosian robotics framework to the next level by applying the latest
Fibonacci refactoring techniques!" if all I know is "we're a leading-edge
company working on bringing killer robots to the masses!"

Furthermore, the cover letter will in many cases be screened by an HR wonk who
isn't qualified to judge any of that.

So the approach of a cover letter that points up specific expertise that _may
apply_ to the position is often the best a candidate can do. "My work on
galambosian robotics frameworks has definite application to the world of
killer robots" is at least as much "pointing out past achievements" as
"telling what I can do for you", but without a lot more information than
companies are willing to give, it's difficult to make it better.

The hiring process is profoundly broken.

~~~
ColinWright

      > The hiring process is profoundly broken.
    

That's certainly true, and we agree on that. More, you make good and valid
points.

Having said that, there is more that candidates can do. They can find out what
the company does, for a start. Then if the ad says what skills are required,
state clearly that you have the skill _and provide evidence._

Those two things along will put you ahead of 90% of other applicants.

"I work well in groups, but also work well alone." \- you and every other
applicant will claim that. _Provide evidence._

Leonardo didn't have a detailed job description to work from, he put in some
thought about what his potential employer would want, and then demonstrated
that he could provide it.

    
    
      > we're a leading-edge company working on
      > bringing killer robots to the masses!
    

Then you'll need control systems, real-time software, image analysis, goal-
oriented planning systems, _etc._ Do you have those skills? Say so _and
provide evidence._ You won't know exactly what frameworks they use, but you
can demonstrate the ability to move between frameworks taking with you your
underlying design and problem solving skills.

I agree entirely that the hiring process is broken, but you can get _well_
ahead by being different and relevant. And if your application doesn't get
past the HR wonks, is it _really_ somewhere you want to work?

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
>They can find out what the company does, for a start.

If there's an agency involved, this can be anywhere between somewhat
challenging and damn near impossible.

"You'll be joining our client who is one of the world's leading suppliers of
[meaningless marketing-speak goes here]"

Obviously, HN job posts don't have this problem. But for Plain Old Contracting
it can be a serious issue at the CV stage.

~~~
ColinWright
That's an excellent point, and yet another reason why agencies are the spawn
of the devil. Yes, they need to protect their own interests, and yes, they
can't be populated by specialists who can both understand the job
specifications and evaluate potential applicants, but even so, they are, in
general, astonishingly poor at what they do.

Question is, is there enough value in disrupting that particular market?

------
dalacv
Basically, it's a cover letter.

~~~
notahacker
This.

If your actual resume consists mostly or exclusively of theoretical future
accomplishments, employers will be justified in wondering whether you've
actually successfully done anything. If your _cover letter_ consists mostly of
rehashing what you've done in the past rather than what you can do in the
specific role, employers will be justified in being sceptical about whether
you've actually considered whether you're actually the candidate they need.

~~~
vinceguidry
Leonardo existed in an age where the key players were few and everyone of
import knew each other. He didn't have to recite past accomplishments, because
all the people he was writing letters to already knew what they were.

Had he been an unknown nobody, he'd have had to bring additional context to
his appeal for employment just like everyone else.

~~~
kcovia
Actually, he wrote this employment letter in 1482, before he made anything of
serious artistic importance. He may have been somewhat known in the artistic
community, but he was by no means very well known.

~~~
vinceguidry
I mean, here in this age, nobody's going to know who you are as an artist
before you make something important. But in the 1400s, just being an artist is
a huge enough accomplishment that people are going to know who you are. Also
too, what's important to us now is not the same thing as what would have been
important to 1400s upper crust society.

The main point I'm trying to make is that 1400s Europe was a really small
world. So different than the one we find ourselves in that, if you want to
take anything at all from Leonardo's cover letter, adopting his language will
probably get you much farther than adopting his actual technique, which was
devised to fit the needs of the 1400s.

~~~
kcovia
It may have been smaller, no doubt, but this statement is not correct:

 _But in the 1400s, just being an artist is a huge enough accomplishment that
people are going to know who you are._

Artists in da Vinci's day were more akin to craftsmen. Da Vinci himself was
basically raised in an artist's workshop (by Andrea del Verrocchio) and worked
alongside dozens of other students on their master's projects. This is in
stark contrast to today's artists, who are basically expected to be the sole
creative genius (barring people like Damien Hirst, of course, who is known to
use assistants.)

------
anon4
Apart from all the other points raised, this reads a lot like a list of "I
know all these unpatched zero-day exploits in the enemy's engineering".

------
pibi
"Faccio il tifo per te" instead of "Sto tifo per te".

Anyhow, thanks for sharing it, I will rewrite my resume based on this
approach.

------
coldcode
Of course he didn't have to deal with recruiters who only match on keywords
and HR people whose eyes are easily glazed over. Or respond to job ads or
emails filled with buzzwords that are required. I too wish I could just write
a positive note to the CEO.

~~~
joaofranco
"Thanks Leo, We are seeking for a junior position, that already have
experience with 5 years of Church painting, and 3 years of Mayans/Aztec Arts."

------
pjmlp
Thanks for sharing it with us.

I wasn't aware of such document from Leonardos's life was available.

Quite interesting, specially since history and languages across centuries are
some of my interests.

Also interesting to wonder how a typical HR department would take such a
letter in our time.

~~~
speakeron
It would be fine as long as you attached your resume as well. (And, of course,
given that they were looking for experts in siege warfare).

------
bayonetz
I think Leo is overselling his chariots a little bit. Looks like resume
padding never goes out of style.

I like how at the very end he says as almost an aside, "I'm pretty good at
this art stuff too if think you'd need some of that?"

------
super-serial
So did he get the job?

Or was his letter looked over because the Duke's assistant was looking for a
technology using "sulfur"... and Da Vinci didn't mention it in his resume.

------
bshimmin
I get the impression he wouldn't bother with LinkedIn.

------
mattip
Born April 15, 1452, this week 563 years ago

------
bikamonki
War: the engine of invention.

------
perdunov
I am totally writing a resume based on this.

~~~
perdunov
This type of comments are frowned upon on HN, as they add nothing to the
discussion and create noise. So don't make such comments anymore.

~~~
perdunov
Understood.

