

The Plastic Bag Wars - wallflower
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-plastic-bag-wars-20110725

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dhughes
I'm not carrying a bag with me all the time when I'm out just in case I buy
something and if it's more than six items well, I don't know how to juggle.

Someone needs to come up with a better plan other than an outright ban.

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dalke
They have these things called "paper bags." I bet that might be an alternative
to plastic ones.

Another option (mentioned in the article) is to not ban plastic bags but have
a small fee for using one. This encourages people to bring their own bags but
has a solution for when they don't, or when they end up buying more than they
expected.

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dhughes
Paper bags seem to have disappeared in the 1960s, they've never been an option
in my area just plastic, your own bag or juggle.

I don't think a fee is a deterrent and it could be abused by stores more
interested in a different kind of green.

Whatever the solution some company will make money from it and put the blame
on the customer.

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dalke
I recall being asked "paper or plastic" in the early 1990s, and Trader Joe's
is a modern chain which only has paper bags. San Francisco, as the article
points out, banned plastic bags. It can't be that everyone brings their own
bags to the store, so clearly the issue isn't that paper is impossible in your
area, only that it's not available for you.

In my experience, the fee is a deterrent. I live in a city where plastic bags
cost at a grocery store about 15 cents and I can say that I would rather the
store not make the profit when I could remember to bring my own or juggle.

In any case, what's wrong with profit? Or if it's a problem, then would you
feel better if there was legislation (as there is with some deposit fees)
where the state keeps the excess money instead of the store?

The main issue is that the cost of production and sales of plastic bags does
not match the cost of the environmental impact. This is similar to beverage
deposits. US states with beverage deposit laws have something like 50% fewer
cans and bottles found as trash compared with those that don't. The two
choices then are either eliminate the source of the problem, or include
cleanup costs as part of the sale price.

~~~
dhughes
I figure it would be easier to make bags using plastic-like substances than
paper bags, potato starch or genetically engineered bacteria oozing out some
sort of bio-plastic.

The cloth bags sold to people must require a large amount of energy to make
and if they are not very durable may be no better than plastic in energy usage
i.e. carbon output.

~~~
dalke
Consider the full lifecycle costs. Energy required for production is easily
captured in the final price. Waste CO2 emissions less so, but let's assume
that some sort of so-called "carbon tax" or "carbon cap" is in place.

Paper, plastic, cloth, and so on have costs. Stores choose bags because of
several factors: cost, ease of storage, ability to keep the bags in stock and
available at the cashier's stand, and so on.

But none of these include the post-use disposal costs. The argument is that
plastic bags are more egregious than other waste: the bags are light enough to
be blown long distances, they clog machinery designed to remove waste, they
are more visible, and so on.

In other words, the points you bring up, while true, are not the major reasons
for plastic bag fees or bans.

