
Disney's $1B Bet on a Magical Wristband - ghosh
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/disney-magicband/
======
mbrock
Neal Stephenson wrote about Disney in "In the Beginning was the Command Line":

"Americans' preference for mediated experiences is obvious enough, and I'm not
going to keep pounding it into the ground. I'm not even going to make snotty
comments about it--after all, I was at Disney World as a paying customer. But
it clearly relates to the colossal success of GUIs and so I have to talk about
it some. _Disney does mediated experiences better than anyone. If they
understood what OSes are, and why people use them, they could crush Microsoft
in a year or two._ [...]

"As I've explained, selling OSes for money is a basically untenable position,
and the only way Apple and Microsoft can get away with it is by pursuing
technological advancements as aggressively as they can, and by getting people
to believe in, and to pay for, a particular image: in the case of Apple, that
of the creative free thinker, and in the case of Microsoft, that of the
respectable techno-bourgeois. _Just like Disney, they 're making money from
selling an interface, a magic mirror. It has to be polished and seamless or
else the whole illusion is ruined and the business plan vanishes like a
mirage._"

There's quite a bit more about Disney in the essay. If you haven't read it in
a while, check it out, it's a pretty good read!

~~~
theandrewbailey
link:
[http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html](http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html)

The metaphorical comparison between the operating systems is one I'll never
forget.

~~~
neuronic
Thank you for the link.

------
bnycum
I recently got back from my second trip to Disney World in which I had a Magic
Band, the first time it was still test phase and had lots of kinks. This time
around it worked flawlessly. To get into the park it requires you to scan your
fingerprint as well, to buy anything with a credit card linked to your account
or use your dining plan requires your pin number. Other than that it's pretty
much tap and go.

The crazy part about the band that scares me is how much you are tracked
because of it. After getting back we noticed we had Photo Pass photos, you
know the photos after you get off the ride you used to buy. Now these photos
are all digital and online, normally requiring you to tap your band at the end
of the ride. Well they were just loaded onto our account, we never even
scanned our bands for these rides or anything.

At the resorts you can buy a refillable mug, or you are given one on the
dining plan. This refillable mug has an RFID chip in them, same with the paper
cups. You must place your mug/cup on the sensor below your drink option in
order for it to be read and dispense your drink. You can only get so much
dispensed in a certain amount of time, or it will just stop dispensing. I also
believe they had or used to have a limit per day on refills, I never hit it.

Not to mention their "free" Wi-Fi that they highly promote. I'm curious what
all is going on behind the scene and how much is being used. Because they
obviously now are tracking what I drink, where I stay, how much money I spend,
where I am in the park, what rides I go on, etc.

~~~
cpwright
The RFID refills bothered me. I didn't buy the dining plan/visit-long
refillable cup, but when I got a soda at the Gasparilla in the Grand Floridian
there was a refill count of either 2 or 3. I kind of fell that if I drop that
much on a paper cup, and hundreds of dollars a night on a hotel, they
shouldn't be limiting the number of refills I get on my cup of soda during
lunch. I don't think I hit the limit to the point that I required buying a
second soda, but that it was there bothered me. Though it didn't irk me so
much that I won't go back, so they've clearly got it fine tuned.

~~~
joezydeco
They've been fine-tuning that for a while.

A lot of that was driven by the cups they sell at the resorts, which used to
be something like $15 but as many fills as you wanted _for your entire stay_.
Some people actually brought the mugs back trip after trip and abused the
system. I suppose they could do that with the paper cups as well.

But once that was in place, now they needed the dispenser to work with paper
cups as well. They couldn't be infinite either (or nobody would buy the mugs)
so a limit needed to be set.

------
atwebb
It reads kind of like a fluff/marketing piece but I'll be damned if it wasn't
pretty seamless. I have no idea what it was like prior to the bands but the
whole experience was clearly made a lot easier by them and the accompanying
app (which is pretty solid). I needed my phone and my band, that was really it
(well,...snacks, water bottles, strollers etc..)

It was 85% well done, when you're actually scanning it can be a bear to get it
just right, took a few days to get used to flipping my wrist around awkwardly
and had a panic moment when one came off.

2 other things:

1) We didn't experience any of the location oriented deliveries/notifications,
maybe they stopped or maybe we aren't special

2) That restaurant is very cool

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>when you're actually scanning it can be a bear to get it just right //

So it uses some sort of direct contact rather than NFC? [Perhaps to make it
less easy to clone?]

~~~
atwebb
I can't definitively say that you MUST touch but you have to get very close,
if not always touching. It also has to be oriented correctly (mouse ears up),
there's not too much wiggle room on any of the readers (turnstile, room,
handheld). I did assume it'd be a simple swipe but it's more, touch and hold
for a second. Sometimes it's almost instantaneous, sometimes I had to take it
off to get it to work right.

~~~
talmand
I don't see how orientation would matter.

After the first day we realized if we wore the band a certain way then it was
easier to flip the wrist to hold for a connection. The shape is kind of weird
and hard to understand the proper way to wear it. I could have been wearing
the wrong way from what was intended for all I know though.

------
smoyer
I always wanted my kids to have a wristband that's tied to my credit card -
good thing there's nothing they'd want at Disney World!

Sarcasm aside, we always get a big wad of cash when we go on vacation (and
especially to Disney World). It's almost impossible to track your spending if
you follow the normal pattern of pulling out your credit card ... this wrist
band (in my mind) is to make sure you don't realize what you're spending.

~~~
woodchuck64
Hmm... there's a real need for a credit or debit card app that tracks real
time charges. I know authorization holds go through immediately (while actual
transfers may take a day) and aren't always the same as spending (i.e. car
rentals typically issue an authorization hold at time of rental for more than
cost), but, in principle, that should be enough to keep track of likely cash
flow in realtime. I'd like to see a bank app that simply takes authorization
holds as spending and updates a graph in real time.

~~~
evan_
Simple is kinda this.

~~~
ssully
Yup. My phone usually notifies be of a transaction before a teller even hands
back my card.

This actually came in handy about a year ago when my number got stolen. I was
sitting at my desk and heard my phone vibrate twice in quick succession. It
showed 2 charges at a grocery store in Florida (I am in Chicago). I
immediately put a block on my card through Simples app and notified Simple
about the fraudulent charges. It made a very scary situation easy to handle.

~~~
__david__
I love that about Simple. It's what prompted me to stop getting receipts. I
used to keep them, "just in case". But I never validated against my bank
statement--it's just too much of a pain. This way I can instantly see it's
correct and that I have a record of it. I quite like my Simple card.

------
m4tthumphrey
I went to Disneyland for the first time last year (so have no experience of it
without bands) but the bands really are magical. They are so convenient and
unobtrusive. There are several colours to choose from before you arrive at
your hotel and you can even get your name engraved on them! As others have
said, I never had to use my wallet once as the band is linked to your room
which is linked to your credit card. It really is an ingenious piece of
marketing tech. Kids love them too, as you can buy and collected little
attachments which sit on the wristbands!

------
tidon12
Love this quote:

"It took one engineer six months to get the tear-away channel just right: It
had to be easy to tear, but it couldn’t inadvertently come apart. Meanwhile,
the readers had to be intuitive enough for people to instantly know how to use
them"

It's amazing the kind of effort true product excellence really takes.

------
VikingCoder
1) You still can't see how many frickin days you have left in the parks when
you're at home. Are you kidding me?

2) Joining groups, and saying who can reserve for whom is still a pain. It
probably works GREAT for 98% of people, but we got screwed on three different
trips.

3) The way they track photos is great for small parties, but it's a pain for
groups that get together, split up, get together, split up, form with another
group of people for a few days, split up, etc.

4) Doesn't work on the cruise ships yet. It'll be great when it does.

5) You can book three rides. When you're done with the third one, you can book
another one. When you're done with that, you can book another, etc. They don't
make this well-known, so we ended up with just 3 rides per day. Could have
done more.

6) My wife and I have different reasons to be in the parks, at different times
of the year. But we can't have a POOL of park tickets. Nope, you have to pre-
allocate the tickets to each band. That sucks. Either that, or let me move
tickets between our bands however we want.

~~~
nemo
The bands are nice for people who go casually, maybe once a year at most.
People who are really into the parks or go more often feel the weak spots
more.

The old FastPass system was far better for those who knew how to work it, we
used to be able to do FastPass for most of the day and never be in a line for
more than 20 minutes, though the new system makes the system more apparent to
everyone.

------
bradfa
Inside the magic band are 3 radios: 13.56 MHz near field RFID (what's in your
credit card's swipe to pay), 915 MHz passive UHF RFID (what's in your timing
bib if you run a 5k race or what Walmart uses for inventory tracking), and a
2.4 GHz active radio.

The following are my conjectures on how it works. I do not work for Disney or
any contractor, but I do work in the field of RFID.

The 13.56 MHz near field RFID is used for payment and entry to the park, and
any other time Disney has you hold your band up to something for a
transaction. It's near field, so the range is only a few centimeters, which is
good for payments and when you want to ensure only one band is being
interfaced with. This RFID consumes no battery power from within the band.

The 915 MHz UHF RFID is used for positioning with shorter ranges but near
instantaneously. For example, when you sit at a table, my guess is they are
using this UHF RFID to find your location (an antenna at each table gives very
good indication of who's at that table). Generally range on UHF RFID is a few
meters, plenty to detect who's walking up to the dining location if they
funnel you through a specific path (called portals in the industry). This is
also likely the technology used to detect which car/boat you are in when they
take your pictures on the rides. UHF RFID can acquire hundreds of tags per
second and consumes no battery power from within the band, which is perfect
for quickly detecting who's in range of a given antenna if they are only a few
meters away.

Finally, the 2.4 GHz radio. It's active so does consume battery power and the
battery inside the bands are tiny, so it cannot be transmitting that often or
the battery life would suck. Hence, I believe that the near field interactions
reset a timer which runs for a few days to a week to enable the 2.4 GHz radio.
Likely this radio transmits every minute or so. Disney do have receivers
around the park for this 2.4 GHz radio system and I believe they only use it
for detecting rough location of all visitors which is perfect to determine the
lengths of lines at rides or to find where a lost kid is in the parks. Once
the timer expires (if you've not interacted with any near field readers in a
few days) then the 2.4 GHz radio stops until the next interaction. This is
likely the only way to get such good battery life and how they can ship the
thing to you weeks before you arrive.

EDIT to add: That 2.4 GHz radio probably has a range of somewhere around 30 to
50 meters (possibly more). Some of their receiver stations are in the lights
around the park (some with wired Ethernet others with wifi or other backhaul
RF networking), others are little black boxes with 100BaseFX (fiber Ethernet
for long runs like 1km). This is perfect for knowing crowd density in an area
and estimating line lengths for outdoor areas (the UHF RFID could also be used
for line length estimation in controlled or indoor areas). Probably they also
have some 2.4 GHz receivers installed in the parade floats and vending carts
(along with GPS to know where those items are) to collect data for location
tracking.

All in all, Disney are executing the wearables and RFID systems exactly as
they are best envisioned. It's awesome! (if a bit scary)

~~~
bradfa
Also, if you care to read the FCC documentation, take a look at FCC ID:
Q3E-MB-R1G1

You can search for any FCC transmitter on the FCC website:
[https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm](https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm)

This is very useful if you want to see how things with radios inside them
work. Most companies do not restrict the internal photos and user manuals from
being posted publicly by the FCC (although you can do so).

~~~
wnissen
How is the grantee code and product name split up? I tried both Q3EMB R1G1 and
Q3E MB-R1G1 without success. Thanks.

~~~
james31415
It's "Q3E" and "-MB-R1G1" The hyphen between Q3E and MB-R1G1 is required.

------
pcunite
Quote: "If Disney decides to install those sensors throughout the park, a new
world of data opens up. They could have Mickey and Snow White find you. They
might use the park’s myriad cameras to capture candid moments of your
family—enjoying rides, meeting Snow White—and stitch them together into a
personalized film."

The governments of the world would like this, no?

~~~
Brakenshire
One of the joys of the internet economy is that citizens fund the development
of the surveillance state (or at least the technology necessary for it)
through their own private-sector consumer purchases.

------
rcaught
> “If we can get out of the way, our guests can create more memories.”

“If we can get out of the way, our guests can spend more money.” - FTFY.

~~~
wyldfire
My first reaction to the magicbands was pretty cynical, like this.

But it's really astonishing how much more convenient and enjoyable it made the
vacation. No need to slog a camera, wallet, etc. I was surprised that even the
smallest out-of-the way Disney feature (Magic Express at the airport, entry
into the resort pools, e.g.), they still had a way to scan the magic bands.

If we did end up spending more because of it, it wasn't much more. And it
might just be worth it.

~~~
fastball
Wait, how does the Magic Band replace a camera?

~~~
300bps
It doesn't really. There are photographers throughout the park that will take
your picture then scan your band. You can then buy said pictures.

~~~
talmand
Or as Wyldfire mentions elsewhere, you can get a prepay package that includes
every single picture or video you happen to be in. Even the pictures for the
rides are included and you don't even have to worry over it.

------
will_brown
I wrote on HN about patenting a "reusable RFID wristband" and attempting to
work something out with Disney in ~2007.[1] The response on HN was fairly
predictable...I am a patent troll. Though I think this sheds light on the
reality that it takes a lot of money to bring certain products to market and
this is why, in certain instances, patents can be useful to the little guys
who in some instances can not practically bring a product to market (I don't
own my own theme park, ski resort, ect...).

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838362](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838362)

Edit: At the time of filing, the only existing patent was for a "single use
RFID hospital bands" which was made to be disabled when removed and non-
reusable (similar to existing non-RFID hospital bands).

~~~
digikata
The band is just the ID device, the real value is how & when that ID process
happens and gets wrapped organically into many different processes in the park
- and that's not something that a small inventor would likely have the context
to correctly wrap around just the hardware. Nor does it seem like something
the original patent would be general enough to exclude.

The article mentions a $1B investment. I would think the band and reader
hardware are the smallest part of that investment with the bulk of it in the
how to apply the information in developing new park-specific processes and
retraining employees.

~~~
will_brown
>the real value is how & when that ID process happens and gets wrapped
organically into many different processes in the park

I think I agree with your point, but to rephrase I say the real value (for
theme parks and resorts) would be easing the ability for patrons to make
payments, purchasing data, the ability to track/locate patrons (lost kids,
people injured in ski resorts, ect...), and the general logistical
improvements of operations (being able to see what seats/rides are open, the
exact number of people in line, redirecting people to other areas of the park,
ect...). This is all very basic data available in most existing RFID software
packages.

------
emsy
I remember that not too long ago, somone commented on HN that he basically
pitched this idea to Disney but they declined and said the idea wasn't really
good. I hope he shows up and tells us his story.

edit: found it
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839888](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839888)

~~~
koz1000
The idea has been around forever, probably from the moment someone figured out
how to attach a unique ID to a radio transmitter. I pitched the idea myself
(half-heartedly) fifteen years ago which puts me 7 years before this guy. And
others commented with _their_ prior art.

[http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Theme_20Park_20Leash#10639908...](http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Theme_20Park_20Leash#1063990800)

~~~
maxerickson
Yeah, here's a company saying an amusement park was using their RFID
wristbands in 2006:

[http://www.wristband-rfid.com/en/amusement_parks.html](http://www.wristband-
rfid.com/en/amusement_parks.html)

Here's a 2004 article about using them in Legoland:

[http://www.networkworld.com/article/2332669/network-
security...](http://www.networkworld.com/article/2332669/network-
security/legoland-uses-rfid-for-finding-lost-kids.html)

------
annapurna
So soon we forget about this last discussion "Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our
Future" :
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8824691](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8824691)

------
ehmuidifici
That's the one of coolest things in Disney World and worth the extra money
you'll pay for that (about US$ 14). It's really impressive how does it work
and how it gets connected to other services, like restaurant reservations,
'fast-pass' and memory maker management.

~~~
joezydeco
At the moment it's free if you stay on the property in one of the resorts. It
also acts as your room key.

------
jqueryin
The idea of a "magical wristband" isn't much different than Great Wolf Lodge
using their magical wands. Kids love it and it gets deep into their parents
pockets.

[http://www.greatwolf.com/](http://www.greatwolf.com/)

------
jeeshan
As a doctor, the first thing that popped into my mind when reading this is how
transformative this would be in the hospital for both patients and providers.

Hospitals are mazes for patients and there are so many obvious ways to improve
the experience. But as a provider, moving from transactions to moments with
patients would reinvigorate the practice.

"The goal was to create a system that would essentially replace the time spent
fiddling with payments and tickets for moments of personal interactions with
visitors. The MagicBands and MyMagicPlus allow employees to “move past
transactions, into an interactive space, where they can personalize the
experience,”

------
bhandziuk
One difficulty with the bands is that, unlike a regular hotel with a magnetic
(or even RFID) wallet sized card, this needs to be placed on your wrist every
morning. I've needed several replacement Magic Bands because I am used to
walking out of my house/hotel room and just checking for my wallet, cell, keys
and knowing I'm good. Usually a hotel card would be in my wallet and it is not
an additional check.

They are free to replace so it's not too big of a deal.

~~~
unreal37
I don't understand. You leave the magic band in your hotel room and need to
have it replaced? Why not go back into the hotel room and retrieve the
original?

~~~
bhandziuk
The hotel room being far away is one issue. Also, only so many people are
authorized to let you back into your room. If that person is not available it
can be a long wait and even if you are at the front desk of the hotel the room
might be a 10 minute walk from there so the front desk person can't leave to
walk you over there. A new band is often faster.

------
strictnein
None of the content is online, but in either the winter or fall 2600 there's a
pretty decent tear down / analysis of the wristband.

~~~
sp332
Winter 2014, it's $6 on Amazon Kindle. [http://smile.amazon.com/2600-Magazine-
Hacker-Quarterly-2014-...](http://smile.amazon.com/2600-Magazine-Hacker-
Quarterly-2014-2015-ebook/dp/B00RTKOPZU/) The article is called "Recon on
Disney's Magic Band."

~~~
strictnein
Yep, thanks, that was it.

------
pitt1980
the magic bands combined with smart watches make paying for things with your
phone seem far more feasable

you can pay for everything in the park with your magic band (I think you might
have to stay in a disney resort for that to be the case)

I'll admit, its really nice, I never take out my wallet if I can just have
them scan my wrist

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It would be interesting to see how revenues have increased due to band usage -
the act of taking out your wallet or handing over cash or using a card act as
a good barrier to excessive spending, making this mindless (just hold your
hand near here) strikes me as a big win for Disney.

Do Disney do the IAP trick of having their own "coins" to insulate from
displaying proper prices too?

~~~
baggachipz
> Do Disney do the IAP trick of having their own "coins" to insulate from
> displaying proper prices too?

Not when I was there last year. Lots of customers still don't use the bands,
as they're for people staying on resort property only. So everyone else has to
do things the Old Fashioned Way.

~~~
brixon
Annual pass holders get these too.

------
Animats
I wonder how aggressively they mine the tracking information in real time. It
would not be hard to recognize both "child separated from parents" and "parent
movement matches search-like behavior", for example.

How did they spend a billion dollars on this system, though?

------
boothead
Isn't this really a bet on turning all of your data into streams and moving to
do everything in real time? If it is, I whole heartedly agree!

------
Eye_of_Mordor
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear kids :-)

------
Shivetya
so they could be modified to monitor the health of their customers and
wouldn't that be amazing. If someone is experiencing a life threatening
situation employees could move in and discretely do a visual check and if
confirmed react so much faster.

------
shashu10
Oh man I want to be a kid five years from now.

------
adnam
"Be Our Guest, here's your food tray". They spent all this time, effort and
money on technology but give people a tray to eat off. Why not just put bowls
on the floor FFS.

~~~
to3m
Ha! Well spotted. I think they're just rectangular lipped plates, though.

