

I promise not to kill myself: Apple factory workers 'asked to sign pledge' - jsankey
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/i-promise-not-to-kill-myself-apple-factory-workers-asked-to-sign-pledge-20100526-wddd.html

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ErrantX
As discussed on the previous stories here: FoxConn has an extremely _good_
suicide rate compared to the rest of China! By a big margin (I recall about
60%).

This sounds very much like them trying to react to the bad press (I will
actually say to the unfairly bad press) r.e. suicides at the factory.

Signing a letter promising not to commit suicide possibly has a positive
effect - so I can't disagree with it in general. EDIT: the bit about being
institutionalised might be a little far; offering medical care is definitely a
good thing, any for of enforced sectioning is too far though.

(that's not to say conditions are good there.. I really don't know because
none of these articles have gone past the sensational.. I suspect no worse
than the rest of China - and so a general improvement would be good)

~~~
jacquesm
'the rest of China' is a bad thing to compare foxconn with, you probably
should compare it with the other factories in the same town to get a baseline.

The economic situation in China has a huge variation from location to location
so it may very well be that compared to the local average foxconn is either
much worse or much better.

Either way, this number of suicides in a single company in an absolute sense
is bad regardless, whatever the relationship to other companies or regions.

~~~
ErrantX
> Either way, this number of suicides in a single company in an absolute sense
> is bad regardless, whatever the relationship to other companies or regions.

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow the logic. Clearly any suicide rate is bad; and
things should be done to combat it. But the fact is they employ 480,000 people
and, so, you are going to see a larger number of suicides compared to someone
who employs 48,000!

> you probably should compare it with the other factories in the same town to
> get a baseline.

Absolutely; can't find any information though. Which sucks.

~~~
jacquesm
The logic is that it is 25 work related suicides per that number of employees,
I'm assuming that it is not exactly the total number of suicides for the whole
company, just the ones that are directly related to the work conditions.

If someone jumps off a bridge because they got dumped by their significant
other I highly doubt it would be tallied amongst these.

~~~
ErrantX
> just the ones that are directly related to the work conditions.

Yeh, I now see what you mean. As I said lower down - previous articles have
explicitly said this is an overall figure.

~~~
jacquesm
This one in particular stands out as one that may be pretty directly related
to the workplace:

[http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/news-mobile-
wireless/unbea...](http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/news-mobile-
wireless/unbearable-interrogation-linked-to-apple-iphone-contractor-
suicide-1448)

It refers to suicide after 'unbearable interrogation techniques'.

------
X-Istence
Okay, so is anyone else bothered by this statement:

> Apple manufacturer Foxconn was today taking extraordinary measures [...]

Foxconn or Hon Hai makes products for many different companies and their parts
end up in thousands of different products all over the world, yes they are one
of the primary manufacturers for Apple products but Apple is not the only one
that is having products manufactured there. I find that it is very
disproportionate for a news article not to mention that other companies also
do business with them thereby putting the spotlight just on Apple.

~~~
raganwald
It's inaccurate in fact but accurate in spirit. Companies like Apple and Nike
should not be allowed to outsource human misery, pollution, or anything else
that is reprehensible.

Apple have been bragging about how green their products are, so clearly they
are not above taking credit for things done by their subcontractors in their
name. So it's fair to bring their name into it when asking questions about
working conditions.

That being said, it's also fair to ask HP, Dell, or anyone else who employs
Foxconn the exact same questions.

~~~
pyre
> _That being said, it's also fair to ask HP, Dell, or anyone else who employs
> Foxconn the exact same questions._

I think that this is the point. Pointing _only_ at Apple in this case reeks of
the 'Micro$oft'-type anti-fanboyism of recent years.

------
holdenc
How to tell you are applying for a bad job: you are asked to sign a letter
promising not to kill yourself.

------
jarek
Terrible article, as I've come to expect on this subject.

"The 22-year-old's monthly salary, including overtime, was only 2000 yuan
($300) -- about the same as the US price of a 32GB iPhone."

I mean -- _really_? Not only does the article fail to provide any sort of
baseline such as simply comparing purchasing power of 2000 yuan in Hunan if
not wages of comparable jobs in the area, that's the carrier-subsidized price
of an iPhone, not the actual price.

------
manish
It is one of partners of apple, they manufacture for hp and dell as well

------
viraptor
> _"I promise never to hurt myself or others in an extreme manner,"_

If only students were asked to sign those - we could've prevented so many
shootings...

~~~
stretchwithme
now they will need to think of un-extreme ways to hurt themselves and others.
no nukes, conventional weapons only.

~~~
viraptor
Ah, like the rules of international conflicts / Geneva conventions? You can
kill each other, but there needs to be order. Napalm - nay, bullets - yay,
landmines - gray area. Civilians out of bounds, unless they try to help the
wounded who carried weapons.

We've got to be civilised after all... Yup - we should definitely make people
sign stuff like that.

Seriously though - since they've got the nets installed, soon we may have an
extensive list of ways to kill yourself in the factory (without jumping out).

------
Aegean
I don't understand people providing numbers about _rates_ and how they differ.
If there is suicide, it means something is wrong. It's simple as that. You
don't need numbers.

We are so used to providing statistics and being empirical but we need some
humanity as well.

------
pmiller2
I agree with this guy (from the article):

 _One Foxconn worker told the newspaper he refused to sign because the company
was seeking the right to institutionalise employees.

"If I bicker with my supervisor, will I be sent to a mental hospital?" the
employee told the paper._

There's no way in __hell __I'd sign an agreement that gave my employer the
right to force me to go to the loony bin.

------
czhiddy
Unfortunately, these conditions seem to be the norm in China, regardless of
the company or factory. Even if Apple took the nuclear option and dropped
Foxconn as a manufacturer, would any rival companies (that had similar
manufacturing capacity) treat their workers any better?

~~~
jacquesm
After that? Probably the next one would.

It'd be more effective though if Apple forced foxconn to improve conditions
'or else'.

~~~
crpatino
I do not think it is accurate. Apple is more of a low volume, high margin kind
of business. Mind you, the high margin is for themselves. If at all, I guess
the manufacturer may sell to Apple just above cost, just for the sake of the
free publicity.

But if you look at the bottom line, I doubt Apple is a Foxconn's make or break
client.

------
callahad
Thom Holwerda over at OSNews wrote a short article that provides some much-
needed perspective: <http://www.osnews.com/story/23359/The_Foxconn_Suicides>

------
chappi42
>how she worked 12-hours a day, six days a week.

>"The atmosphere inside our workplaces is so tight and depressing that we're
not allowed to speak to each other for 12 hours or you'll be reproached by
your supervisors.

Even with 8000 people applying for work daily, Apple, Dell and HP could and
should pressure Foxconn to improve working conditions. Imho it's not about
not-killing-myself but the daily "I feel like I have an empty life and work
like a machine".

------
eplanit
That's odd, because the agreement they want their consumers to sign says "I'd
sooner kill myself than criticize Apple, Inc.".

:-)

------
goatforce5
CP24 (Toronto TV news station) was reporting a tenth death when I watched the
news at lunch.

AFP is reporting an 11th death:
[http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jWnjN18xP...](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jWnjN18xPhrQL-
tPcFPwKf6zDoCA)

------
kierank
This pledge not to kill oneself is as useless as the fine for jumping off the
edge of the Niagara Falls.

~~~
jarek
Off the original topic, but (ex-) Niagara local here: the fine isn't entirely
useless. Some people survive the fall, so when one is noticed, you have to
mobilize a rescue team to search for a potential survivor. More importantly, I
am under the impression the fine is meant to deter (and recoup the expenses
on) daredevils more than suicidal people; people going over in barrels and so
on.

------
Charuru
Soo... are any of the protesters urging higher wages and lower hours or are we
all too addicted to our cheap goods?

~~~
_delirium
Would it really make _that_ much of a difference in this case? I think Apple
is getting more pressure than most because they essentially are selling a
luxury good, where the cost spent on the Chinese manufacturing is not that
high a percentage of the total retail sales cost, so they could afford to
spend more and still turn a profit.

------
itistoday
The article reads like an April fools joke:

    
    
      Roof patrols were also being arranged and nets installed 
      around buildings to deter suicidal workers, it added.
      
      "If they jump, they'll fall into the safety nets, so 
      their lives will be saved," a contractor told the channel.
    

And the surprising bit:

    
    
      But there was no shortage of people trying to get through 
      the factory gates. Around 8,000 people apply to work at the 
      factory every day, Foxconn spokesman Liu Kun told the 
      state-run China Daily newspaper.

