
In Japan, a growing number of car-sharing users don’t rent cars for driving - kawera
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201907040011.html
======
kristopolous
I ran a very affordable car share platform for years. One gentleman used it at
night to study in.

We suspected his claims of it being a comfortable place to get work done
didn't fit with renting it from say midnight to 5 but upon an "investigation"
we saw books and papers on the dash, the dome lights on, you know, deep study.

Still think it's kinda strange... He was middle aged and married. My theory
was he had a snoring wife at home and was taking night school or something.

There was another gentleman who would book the cars at night and also go
nowhere for hours. Upon investigating him he was listening to fiction books on
tape... Relaxing with the seat back and enjoying the novel. Rented around the
same time almost every evening.

~~~
harlanji
> but upon a few "investigations"

> Upon investigating him

Hella creepy. Glad you gave the business your all and learned valuable
lessons.

~~~
kristopolous
When cleaning cars we found among other things: lots of drugs (heroine, meth,
crack and supplies), stolen merchandise, weapons, a box of fake ids, etc.
People would use stolen drivers licenses to sign up, stolen credit cards to
pay, it happened frequently.

If someone constantly rented the car at night, didn't drive it, and was dodgy
whenever they came to a lot, I guess you could say it's none of our business
except that it's a $10,000 insurance liability along with a branding issue if
someone is say doing hard drugs in our cars while people are walking by.

These quite rare investigations only happened after finding things. Sometimes
cars would be out for 10+ rentals before arriving back for a cleaning. The
frequent night renters would be on the previous renter lists multiple times
after finding things so it was more to clear their name from suspicion than
anything.

Honestly I don't really have a judgment on someone say, freebasing meth,
that's their freedom. Just please not in our cars.

~~~
mc32
I think the person you’re responding to imagined you went searching for them,
found them in the car and left them alone. Whereas you meant examining car
after it was returned.

~~~
kspp
>we saw books and papers on the dash, the dome lights on, you know, deep study

------
kartan
This is a problem with big cities. There are no public spaces. Even less
private spaces for free.

Recently, I was in Barcelona and was surprised to see a bunch of teenagers
cramped together sitting on the pavement in a shopping mall. At first, as an
old person that I am, I thought that they were up to something. But, they were
having fun, laughing and having a good time. The only park had no trees and
few banks anyway. So, it was better to sit on the floor somewhere in the
shadow that to sit on the floor under the sun.

Even more interesting was the fact that the place had a lot of empty chairs.
But, those ones were for paying customers.

If it is so hard to find a place to sit with friends much more difficult is to
find a place where to sit alone. Some libraries are ditching the focus on
books to just offer a space to study together or alone.

If I have criticised USA cities for being designed for cars European (and
Japanese also) cities are designed for businesses.

Stockholm is one of the few cities where I have seen a focus on parks and
outdoor pastimes. Ironically, it is only available two or three months a year
as usually is too cold to be confortably sitting outsite.

~~~
johnwalkr
There’s a ton of public space in Tokyo. To me this reads as: \- people pay for
car sharing (generally it requires a monthly fee plus a small usage fee per
hour) \- occasionally people that already pay the monthly fee take advantage
of a nearby available car to sit in or nap in.

This isn’t a widespread trend where public space is so limited one needs to
rent a car to sit in.

The napping explanation is probably the most common. It’s normal to see people
napping in vehicles at midday, especially delivery drivers and construction
workers. I can see the appeal of hopping in a nearby car-share car to nap as
it would be more comfortable than the seating one can normally find.

------
Zanni
I do something like this with my own car (not a rental). I live in a very hot
climate and don't have AC, so my home office is essentially useless in the
summer. Recently I bought a Tesla Model 3, and I'll just take my laptop out to
the car, sit in the passenger seat and select "Keep climate on" from my phone.
I never felt comfortable doing this with an ICE car due to engine vibration,
noise and stink.

Sometimes I break up my work day by going to Starbucks and working there, but
if I can't find a seat, I can just bring my drink back to my car. It's not
ideal--there's no table--but it's not bad.

~~~
zj45499
>
> _[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20361247&goto=item%3Fi...](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20361247&goto=item%3Fid%3D20359901%2320361247*)

What's wrong with purchasing an AC at home?

~~~
lostapathy
You have to pay for the electricity to run it rather than getting free juice
off a supercharger?

~~~
toomuchtodo
Superchargers aren’t free for vehicles purchased after January 2017 (except
some edge cases during promotion periods).

------
jnty
This is pretty amusing but highlights the distortions caused by the huge
implicit rent subsidy that car parking usually receives. Where else can you
hire private space in the centre of a city on an hourly basis for the rates
that car sharing companies charge?

~~~
Danieru
Not the case in Japan. All cars must have an assigned parking space registered
with the police. Apartments are not required to have parking spaces. Thus the
daily charge to rent a car space in the middle of Tokyo is usually twenty or
more dollars. These car sharing services all have dedicated parking spaces for
each rental car.

This the parking space does not carry a marginal cost for the operator. Rather
the problem with not driving is the lost marginal charge for milage.

Tokyo also has anti idling policies. Thus these car rental services will not
want to be associated with such an illegal activity.

~~~
adrianN
600 dollars for the ~10 sq meters a car takes up is still pretty cheap for
Tokyo. There could be several stories of housing above that parking spot. How
much is the average rent per square meter? Twenty dollars or so?

~~~
Aeolun
That sounds about right for rent. But that would make a parking the right
choice if you can fill it up.

------
icanhackit
Sounds like an opportunity to me. Have a rule that you charge by Km travelled
or fuel used, whichever is greatest $-wise. Also have a car where the interior
can be quickly converted into a bed...a _double_ bed.

Bonus points for electrochromic glass for privacy. The glass can only be
activated when the car is fully stopped with the handbrake engaged.

Uses: sleep, sex, rest, air-conditioned space, heated space, eating space,
electrical outlet for phone or laptop, quiet room, change room...oh and a car.
Basically anything a hotel can be but also portable.

Add automated driving to the equation and who knows what kind of a beast the
industry will be in a decade.

~~~
logfromblammo
Decouple the environmental controls and electrical subsystem from the engine
by using a separate electricity generator with a separate fuel supply. Use
deep-cycle marine batteries as a buffer, and have the generator turn on to top
them off when they get below a threshold. Meter the power usage for the
generator, and charge for distance travelled and by power used.

A lot of owner-operator truckers have discrete electricity generators, because
running the engine just for HVAC and electric power causes unnecessary
maintenance costs. There are even truck stops that pipe in electricity, HVAC,
and video channels through an umbilical that hangs down to one of the windows.

A miniaturized RV that is basically a stripped-down mobile motel room will
also have a decent post-fleet-vehicle secondary market, as people buy them to
live in full-time, or use more like a traditional RV, excepting that it can
fit into a van-sized parking space.

Also, I'd just use blackout curtains or aluminum shutters instead of the
electrochromic glass, and use a removable or retractable privacy barrier
between the driver compartment and the private space. I'd rather use simple
and reliable tech for simple requirements.

~~~
cr0sh
> A miniaturized RV that is basically a stripped-down mobile motel room will
> also have a decent post-fleet-vehicle secondary market, as people buy them
> to live in full-time, or use more like a traditional RV, excepting that it
> can fit into a van-sized parking space.

You're basically describing what used to be called (here in the United States
- circa 1970s-80s) a "conversion van". Today, you'd probably use something
like one of the larger/tall "Ford Transit Connect" vans; which I wouldn't
doubt that some company does conversions on, for sale as mini RVs.

~~~
zrobotics
In fact they are fairly popular with the set of campers who travel to more
remote places (I.E. national forest campgrounds instead of large RV parks).
For instance,
[https://sportsmobile.com/sportsmobile-4x4/](https://sportsmobile.com/sportsmobile-4x4/)
offers 4x4 conversion vans for these uses, as well as more traditional 4x2
conversion vans for on-road use.

~~~
Fogest
Those look pretty neat! Do you know if there are similar things that are less
off-road geared?

~~~
Baeocystin
Google for Volkswagen Westfalias. They are, sadly, no longer in production,
but they are exactly what you have in mind, and their internal layout was
about as good as it gets in terms of comfort/utility per square foot. I had
one back in the late 90's/early 2000's, and I regret to this day that I sold
it. It was awesome.

~~~
Fogest
Ah yes, I have seen some of those old fellows around here and there! I
definitely would love something like this, too bad they look so dated :/.

------
mft_
Interesting that this solution bubbled up.

I've struggled with similar issues before - when travelling, or out in a city,
where to do some quiet work, or take a call, or speak to a group of
colleagues?

I've explored short-term (i.e. hourly) office space rentals, but IME the low
headline rates ("from...") become a lot higher when you dig into the specifics
and have minimum spends. I'd happily pay $<=20-30 for a convenient small quiet
office for an hour, but not $80+. I've also never found a service that offers
anything like the low friction that (from the article) unlocking a car
remotely would offer.

I wonder if this area is ready for some disruption...?

~~~
Slartie
You mean disruption like: "park" a large number of trailers in cities,
containing small office rooms, small apartments, hotel rooms, rows of
lockers...whatever. Then rent out those and undercut other market participants
which actually need to pay for the buildings and properties in which they
operate, while you just "park" your relatively-cheap custom trailers in areas
where this is free of charge.

~~~
pjc50
Not that many places near a city you can park a trailer free of charge - and
if there were, you can bet this scheme would accelerate charging for them.

I suppose the next phase would be electric self-driving vehicles, circulating
endlessly on the roads while the occupants sleep or study. That would probably
force the city to implement tiered congestion pricing to force them out.

------
jeffrallen
"the street finds its own uses for things" \-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Chrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Chrome)

------
VBprogrammer
Anyone else hate car sharing services? Honestly I just found the experience
increadibly stressful.

Before I go anywhere, is every little scratch and dent listed in the little
handbook?

If I clip something in a carpark (like a bollard or tall curb) I've got to
spend 30 minutes on the phone explaining it to the person on the other end
then pay some hard to determine fee.

On my way back to the spot if I get caught in traffic there is another fine
for being late.

That's before we get into the difficulty of how you'd do it with a small child
with a pram and car seat etc.

~~~
khalilravanna
Just spitballing here but it makes me think there should just be an option to
rent a dinged up, scratched up car for cheaper. The policy would be like
“Cosmetic damage ok. As long as there’s no functional damage, you’re good.” I
personally don’t give a flying f—— if my rental car looks like a junkyard lot
special, as long as it drives me safely to my destination. Plus it saves me
stress if some dbag dings my rental in a parking lot.

I guess maybe the counter argument for this (other than rental companies
fighting it because I’m sure they shadily draw in some revenue from gauging
people on fees for cosmetic damage) is it might be harder to catch functional
damage if you stop checking for cosmetic damage. Though, I’m not so sure
that’s true.

~~~
OrangeMango
> Just spitballing here but it makes me think there should just be an option
> to rent a dinged up, scratched up car for cheaper.

Here you go [https://www.rentawreck.com/](https://www.rentawreck.com/)

------
Theodores
The seats in any car are better engineered and far more comfortable than the
typical chair in an office, home, park, bus or train.

Never underestimate the value of a comfy seat.

~~~
LeonidasXIV
When we scrapped our old '90ies Opel Astra we kept the passengers seat and
made it into a funky-looking but insanely comfy regular chair at home by
attaching it with some screws to a simple base made of wood, so it is high
enough to sit it.

At some point my dad said he's sad we didn't keep the drivers seat as well.

~~~
Theodores
Did you watch re-runs of Top Gear on Dave too? I am surprised given the
popularity of the show that more people haven't gone for the car-seats-at-home
option. You get head rests into the bargain, plus, if you need to re-upholster
there are after market seat covers and even those bead things that people had
in their cars then.

Essentially all these seats go for scrap so you could get the leather seats
from a 7-series BMW to have a mega cool sofa at home complete with arm rest
and cup-holders. With a few more bits of wood you could make some outer arm-
rests. Heated/cooled seats could be nice too.

Maybe there is a 1990's sweet spot where the electronics aren't present so
adjustment can be done with mechanical controls, as per your Astra option. A
Transit Van could have particularly good pickings with the right vintage.

~~~
LeonidasXIV
> Did you watch re-runs of Top Gear on Dave too?

Nah, I haven't watched any Top Gear. But the seat was just always so comfy in
a way none of the seats in the never cars I've been in was. I think it is due
to how the seat envelopes you, in a way reminiscent of race cars (which the
Astra was not, by any stretch of imagination).

I think heated seats could be possible as well, I assume the required
electronics and the protocols they speak for regulation should be rather
simple. But given the seat is at home there is not that much need to heat it
up :)

------
flocial
>Operators also lose cash when consumers rent vehicles for “non-driving
purposes” since customers pay more if they log a lot of mileage.

This quote struck me as strange since the price of gas is included in Times
Car Share which is the biggest car share service.

[https://share.timescar.jp/fare/use.html](https://share.timescar.jp/fare/use.html)

~~~
baq
gas is not the only cost of mileage though.

~~~
iainmerrick
Right, it also depreciates the car. Mileage is the most important factor in
determining sale price.

------
kurtisc
I wonder how the cost compares to a love hotel?

~~~
ironic_ali
Asking for a friend?

~~~
kurtisc
For a horror screenplay

------
matthewfelgate
Welcome to the future. The future of cars is they will be more like rooms than
cars.

~~~
etatoby
Not futuristic enough.

The future of rooms is they will be more like cars than rooms.

------
benj111
I wonder how long it will take for 'cars' to appear that are technically
roadworthy but have a better layout for this kind of thing, or maybe a double
decker could be converted for the purpose.

~~~
skohan
This reminds me - I remember hearing that the whole reason trailer parks exist
is because in some places the laws for vehicle financing were vastly different
than home financing. As a result, banks had an incentive to lend to vehicle
buyers with income/credit ratings they could not approve home loans for.

Someone figured out they could open up an entirely new market by slapping
wheels on tiny homes and calling them vehicles, even if no one would ever
intend to move them anywhere.

The whole thing is predatory, but it's an interesting case study in perverse
incentives.

------
kuu
I'm surprised no one mentioned to use them for sexual activities...

------
thrifter
_and even do facial stretches said to reduce the size of their face_

Can someone explain this one to me? Is this a weird translation or do people
in Japan actually do this?

~~~
rangibaby
Korean face massage is a fad in Japan at the moment

[https://youtu.be/n9mXYIT10Rc](https://youtu.be/n9mXYIT10Rc)

------
evanweaver
At this very moment I am sitting in a dealer-provided loaner car by a strip
mall, because I have to wait for my own car to be repaired and I need to make
phone calls. There is no other space nearby where I can do that for love or
money, including the dealership waiting room.

I asked for the loaner vehicle for this purpose specifically. The car has AC
and privacy. I get it. I wish it also had a desk.

------
nkrisc
Sounds like people would pay for a small, readily-accessible private space. At
first I thought this could be better served by having a proper space and
building to house these spaces but maybe, unintentionally, parking a bunch of
cars around for people to rent is actually a much lower barrier to entry than
dealing with zoning and inspections and regulations.

~~~
cr0sh
Imagine something like Porto-Potties?

Porto-Office?

It wouldn't have to be much larger, though it would probably need some kind of
small A/C system, like you'd find on top of an RV. Put a bunch of batteries
and/or a small genset under the seat area, a dropdown table on the door, a
plug for power, and maybe optional 4/5G wifi. Add a credit card reader on the
outside to take payment. Put a bunch on trailers and drop them off in
places...

There's gotta be a reason why this hasn't been done already - none of the tech
needed is that special, most of it is already "off the shelf". There must be
some kind of laws or regulations preventing it?

------
ymkjp
Japan is an excellent place for visiting but not for living unless you luckily
find a proper employer (might be yourself), which is also true to rental car.
It's adventurous urban camping if you are a visitor.

Most of the cities in Japan are enough safe for adults to walk outside even at
midnight, and there are konbinis for clothing and food. So going to a gym (for
shower) + renting a car (for sleep) can be more reasonable than staying at a
hotel, and maybe you will have a priceless experience when figuring out how to
survive in a center of the city.

In reality, on the other hand, as this article says, the shared-car is a
built-in system among the working poor. Laborers in Japan work too long, and
their commute takes too long so the car is a savior to maximize their sleep
time.

------
Markoff
I am always surprised more young people won't buy cheap trailers or old RVs
and just won't park it in free parking lot, would not be problem in many
European countries and it beats rent in big cities of you have some savings to
buy it, bonus points for using it for actually traveling in summer

I have my own apartment without mortgage but I am still considering buying
some van, parking it in front of my residential building and using it as
extremely cheap and easily accessible storage space. heck according laws car
doesn't even need to have license plate, it just need to look like it's drive
worthy, so not even yearly insurance fee

~~~
cr0sh
> I have my own apartment without mortgage but I am still considering buying
> some van, parking it in front of my residential building and using it as
> extremely cheap and easily accessible storage space.

If you're going to go that route, look into a used moving truck; much more
space, easier to modify for storage (or if you want to go "tiny home" in the
future), and likely much more secure (being a closed box in the back). They
don't tend to be very expensive (although they also don't tend to have great
mileage per gallon or litre of fuel - but neither do most vans of any good
size).

> heck according laws car doesn't even need to have license plate, it just
> need to look like it's drive worthy, so not even yearly insurance fee

If you're in the United States, you might want to verify this. Usually, you
need registration, plates and tags on a vehicle that isn't parked or used on
private land. Your landlord may or may not be ok with having such a vehicle on
their property. Insurance would be optional, but you might want to speak to
your agent to find out whether your renter's policy would cover any losses
from the van, or if you can get a separate rider for that - or if you need
completely separate insurance coverage.

~~~
perl4ever
"likely much more secure (being a closed box in the back)"

The moving trucks I've used are not very solid at all in the back. Googling,
it appears that even larger trucks are made with a box that is mainly 1 mm
thick aluminum (and that is claimed to be "above industry standards).

------
huffmsa
This certainly isn't a uniquely Japanese phenomenon, but I feel like it's
definitely something I'd expect to hear about from Japan. That touch of
unconcerned practicality.

~~~
etatoby
Also, the delicious boxed lunches sold everywhere, combined with the social
stigma about eating them anywhere that is not a private space or a space
already devoted to eating.

------
darkteflon
That headline is _awful_.

------
mc32
It looks like these companies could branch out a bit and add small conference
rooms (like a small KTV room), cafeteria areas (small stand up tables), or
small booths. I’m a big surprised they didn’t find their card being used as
love hotels on wheels, but that may be understandable if most are kei cars.

~~~
etatoby
They probably aren't talking about the ones used as love hotels on wheels.
They could even be inflating those other niche uses in front of the media, in
order to distance themselves from that other use.

------
crispyambulance
I find it strange that the places where this happens are so compressed that
people feel like they literally have "make the space" to do normal life
activities.

What about public squares, parks, train stations, seating in/around office
plaza's, libraries, cafe's?

------
baxtr
_> One respondent to the company's survey said they rented vehicles to nap in
or use for a workspace. Another person stored bags and other personal
belongings in the rental car when nearby coin lockers were full._

------
percentcer
This has been on my mind lately. I'm surprised there isn't a WeWork-like
company that is offering total silence and isolation.

Please free me from open office plans, cafe chatter, and street noise.

