
The Peculiar Ascent of Bill Murray to Secular Saint - dnetesn
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/fashion/mens-style/the-peculiar-ascent-of-bill-murray-to-secular-saint.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below&_r=0
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grellas
_The actor has little or nothing to do with these products and seems not to
have brought legal action. People are strangely moved to make this stuff and
others to purchase it._

Every actor/celebrity (indeed, every person in theory) has a right to control
what others do with his name, image, and likeness - this is what the law calls
the "right of publicity."

So you can't just paste a photo or drawing of a famous person onto mugs, etc.
and sell them for profit.

That is, apparently, unless that person is Bill Murray. He certainly could act
to stop this but he hasn't.

I guess this fits with his eccentric-oddball persona. Very odd, legally
speaking, but a nice way to relate to the people. Don't know the first thing
about the man personally but this is the kind of thing that makes me want to
know someone who can be so engagingly goofy.

~~~
nostromo
It's a smart business move, regardless of his reasons. If he were to sue,
there wouldn't be a Bill Murray trend to write about in the Times.

The analogy to Che Guevara seems right. The image has taken on a life of its
own, independent of the man. Che's image in the U.S. seems to represent a
blank slate revolutionary.

A counter-analogy is MLK. Why are there so many Che shirts but no MLK shirts?
In part because the King family will sue you for any use of his image or words
without a subsequent payday. This has prevented MLK from being the omnipresent
cultural presence he should be.

~~~
lakeeffect
The MLK thing is amazing to me. We celebrate this person every year as a
national event but unlike are presidents his speeches are under enforced
copyright so nobody hears his famous thoughts or words. Even on his day people
reference the I have a dream speech but nobody hears it or even references
portions of it. It's a weird shadow of remembrance.

~~~
kzhahou
In a pinch, you can use a copyright-free version of the MLK speech. Sample:

    
    
        > "I Have An Idea"
        >
        > I'm super happy to join with you today in what 
        > will go down as a noteworthy demonstration for 
        > freedom in the history of our nation.  One hundred
        > years ago, a great president --his statue is behind 
        > me-- signed the Emancipation Proclamation.  Good
        > stuff, that.
        >
        > I have an idea that one day we'll will rise up
        > and live out: "We hold these truths to be 
        > self-evident, that all men are created equal."
        >
        > I have an idea today!
        >
        > Free finally!  Free finally!
        > Thank the Maker, we're free finally!

------
jrbedard
What's interesting is how to cast Bill Murray for a movie. He doesn't have an
agent, lawyer, personal phone number, or email address. Only a mythical
anonymous 1-800 number where you leave a voicemail describing your script and
hope he calls back. He's known to check his voicemail only once in a while..
He's also a nomad, so if he's interested, the script is sent through snail
mail to his variable current location.

[http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2014/09/05/casting...](http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2014/09/05/casting-
bill-murray-st-vincent-toronto-film-festival/15148287/)

~~~
luckydata
he usually works with the same people, I bet by now the ones he's interested
in working with have his personal email / number.

------
mmanfrin
I think part of the fame is that he says things like "no one will ever believe
you" to people whose events he shows up to, and doesn't self-publicize. People
then go on to talk about it, and incredulity is sometimes met with proof in
the form of photos of Murray holding a tequila bottle or whatnot. These little
bits of truth make all the other legends (true or not) seem true, giving life
to the legend.

~~~
subdane
I've loved BM since Meatballs, but I thought this was an interesting point,
"lost in the funny retellings is the melancholy reality of an older, divorced
dad partying with 20-somethings." It made me wonder how I'd view my own father
if he was doing things like this on a regular basis. Probably not too
favorably.

~~~
coldtea
Maybe let your father live his own life as he wants it and don't judge him?

(Ironically, that's a common advice people give to parents regarding their
kids).

Besides do you know what's REAL melancholy for an "older, divorced dad"?

NOT partying at all, and not having people to love/care for them. Second
worse, would be only having boring older people conversations and pass-times.
If they can be that relevant that even 20th year olds are OK to hang around
with them, more power to them.

What would be indeed be lame would be to TRY/WANT to party with younger
people, and them rejecting you. Or partying with younger people but not being
able to connect with another person out of "party" scenarios. Which I'd guess
is not the case here.

~~~
xirdstl
That sort of reinforces his point. His dad, or most people's dad, would likely
be that lame person trying to party with younger people, but failing because
they aren't famous.

~~~
coldtea
> _but failing because they aren 't famous._

Well, in that case he should still let him live his life.

But besides that, it's not just "fame" that does it. If the person is
interesting, that can be enough.

------
drblast
I've always loved Bill Murray's comedy. He's funny in a timeless way.

But my favorite story about him is how he calls Kelly Lynch's husband every
time Roadhouse is on TV to tell him that she's having sex with Patrick Swayze.
Apparently this has gone on for years.

I love that he'd do that to begin with, but that he'd do it for so long
without any expectation that it would become public knowledge is awesome.

~~~
WalterBright
I'm not so sure his comedy is timeless. There are many, many comedians from
earlier eras that one might have thought were timeless, but watching them
today, they don't seem funny at all. WC Fields, for example.

~~~
staunch
Bill Murray Singing Jaws @ 12 minutes

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25gLcBgduHk#t=12m](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25gLcBgduHk#t=12m)

This bit was written like 40 years ago.

~~~
phaus
I like lots of things that Bill Murray's done, but that isn't really funny at
all. I doubt it would have been funny 40 years ago either.

Humor is subjective, so my opinion really doesn't matter.

I think there are definitely comedic styles/routine/jokes/whatever that might
end up being timeless, but there are a lot of things that will become less
humorous over time. Half of the sitcoms I grew up watching in the 80's and
early 90's don't seem funny at all anymore.

~~~
EGreg
Seinfeld and how I Met your mother will be timeless

~~~
soylentcola
Never managed to get on the HIMYM bandwagon so I can't comment on that until I
get around to finally watching it.

As far as Seinfeld, I've noticed that people my age who grew up with the show
in school and college consider it timeless but a lot of younger people don't
see the big deal. Not so much that it's not funny (it is) or that it's dated
(cultural references and cordless home phones are just window dressing), but
that so many subsequent shows have been influenced by Seinfeld that it doesn't
seem very new or original to a 17-year-old who just saw a few reruns for the
first time.

It's sort of like how people will talk about The Beatles being overrated
because people still refer to their relevance when they were still putting out
albums, not how their work relates to current rock music. When the Beatles got
huge it was relevant as much for the time and place as it was the actual
music. But if you're a young listener today and you hear the Beatles at the
same time as you hear later artists who were influenced by the Beatles, they
don't seem like a big deal.

That's the problem with "timelessness" and something like pop culture that's
always changing and building upon itself (not to mention how it favors
novelty). It seems like there will always be cultural "enthusiasts" in any
medium who appreciate the influence a given artist has on the popular culture
but just the same, I find that same general "popular" audience loses sight of
what made something big. And since the nature of pop culture is to mirror and
cater to "the masses", on some level, that's who really determines relevance.

~~~
kedean
I'd agree on the music part. Timeless is something that stays unique, that
will never be replicated. The Beatles have been successfully copied and mass-
marketed, and are no longer really timeless. "Smells Like Teen Spirit", I
would argue, is timeless, in that none of the imitators ever really pinned it
down. Kids still hear it and it resonates with them. I would pin Queen as
timeless as well, nobody has managed to really get that formula right again,
but it still appeals today. Comedy can rarely be 'timeless', because its SO
easy to steal a routine or a persona that made a previous comedian beloved,
and thus dilute it.

------
coldtea
Well, Bill Murray personifies detachment and irony -- and those two things
have been almost holy in the last 2 decades.

------
kzhahou
How does this article fail to mention "no one will ever believe you"? That
line from his random appearances was the key to his online ascent.

------
buckbova
I too have a framed print of murray as a solider hung on my wall. I think it's
this one:

[https://society6.com/product/bill-murray-
replaceface_framed-...](https://society6.com/product/bill-murray-
replaceface_framed-print)

I dunno. I just like it. I grew up with his movies and he's simply genius.

------
aswanson
I had no idea this was a phenomenon, but I definitely plan on getting one of
those shirts and coffee cups.

~~~
lovemenot
Me neither. As I was reading the article I at first assumed the story was a
spoof. The St. Murray candle picture is hilarious in its own right. There is
something about his exasperated resignation that is akin to the suffering of
catholic saints.

As I read more I came to understand that the public, including BM himself,
have appropriated his persona and are doing mash-ups with it. Very nice.

------
tibarun
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jJU3lzU7OU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jJU3lzU7OU)

------
axplusb
Personality cults involving stuff like T-shirts and ironic prayer candles seem
much more usual for musicians -- I wonder why though.

~~~
munificent
In much modern Western popular music, authenticity is a huge component: we
expect musicians to write and perform their own music and to have the lyrics
be honest and at least somewhat autobiographical.

This makes listeners feel they have a connection to who the musician actually
is.

Actors, by the very core of their occupation, don't have that level of
immediate authenticity.

~~~
aswanson
Even if you aren't that authentic, if you fit a persona well enough, a cult
ensues. Witness Samuel L. Jackson as badass, etc.

------
cup
Whats most interesting about this is that his history of domestic abuse has
yet to tarnish his history.

~~~
oldmanjay
It's almost as if allowing people to be flawed in their personal life is at
least as reasonable as turning everything celebrity-related into the segment
of the jerry springer show where audience members moralize for applause.

~~~
cup
Oh sure, I agree.

I'm more just curious how hes managed to come out unscathed. A lot of famous
people usually take a big hit when accused of domestic violence.

------
xlm1717
This is another stupid thing that the popularity of the internet has allowed
to happen, on par with the selfie and the hashtag.

