
Hello Android - ingve
https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/hello-android
======
nextos
> After turning on, it starts applying security updates. Good. One month at a
> time. There are many months. This is bad.

I have the same experience with a Pixel.

Today I bought a heavily discounted brand new Pixel 2, because I wanted to try
(pure) Android (and migrate to pure AOSP afterwards). After booting the
device, I was downloading updates for _6 hours_ while doing nothing else. I
really wanted to like this phone, as I don't like iOS either. But I was
disappointed. Not a polished experience at all.

First many updates of applications. Fine. Quite quick. Then updating Android 8
to 9. Quite quick too. Then an insane loop of installing nth security update
and rebooting. Why can't I get a fresh image in a single step? [1] Especially
given that this is a flagship device from Google itself?

Furthermore, the process is really slow and full of glitches. Sometimes
updates would stop downloading because there was phone activity, yet I never
touched the phone throughout the process. After every update, my phone would
spend a lot of time and energy "optimizing apps" (bytecompiling?) only to
request rebooting and doing the same thing again and again. Very wasteful.

Lastly, I never got any notification once updates where installed and a reboot
was necessary. So I had to keep checking to speed up the process.

Updating from Android 8 to 9 was quick, but there was also a serious glitch I
didn't mention. I don't have a wireless connection, just LTE. For some time,
there was no option to force the update to be downloaded using LTE! After
installing some app or rebooting, suddenly an option to go ahead and use LTE
showed up in the same window where previously there was none.

Also, the default settings in my out-of-the-box Pixel 2 out drained battery
quite quickly, which I found shocking. Only after disabling NFC, bluetooth,
location services and a few other things battery consumption was quite
reasonable. I think also lots of services were initially polling for updates,
and this drained energy.

[1] Apparently you can do this with adb. Many other users have had the same
frustrating experience, though:
[https://reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/b04yxp/brand_new_p...](https://reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/b04yxp/brand_new_pixel_2_xl_followed_by_6_hours/)

~~~
apl002
that sounds like an awful experience. All i can say is i did not experience
any of this when i moved from an iphone 7 to pixel 2. I was actually impressed
how much data transferred over and felt like it took less than 20min for
everything to be done

~~~
nextos
I thought I was doing something wrong. But if you read the r/pixel thread I
linked above, many other users have the same unboxing experience. I will try
to fill in a bug somewhere.

It seems like Google needs to focus on providing a more coherent experience on
all devices. Not focusing on just released ones. I understand the Android
ecosystem is more complex than the iOS one. But still, the Pixel lineup is
quite small.

~~~
apl002
in my day job i work on my company's android team (and ios) so I am pretty
familiar with a lot of android devices. I've never been a samsung or moto fan
but I've had positive experiences with LG and the Pixel devices. Outside of
the Pixel, I doubt google cares too much

~~~
nextos
Yes. What I meant is that Google only seems to care about the current Pixel
i.e., Pixel 3 now.

Pixel 2 was only discontinued a few weeks ago, and the unboxing experience is
bad as I discussed above.

------
dijit
I kept getting told to go android. That the Apple ecosystem doesn’t jive with
my normal hacker/ricer/keyboard warrior persona.

So I got a oneplus one (when they were new), and it was a fairly decent phone
truth be told, but the store was woeful and it felt a lot worse put together.
On the whole I was left with a pleasant idea of what Android could be, and
aside from the huge size of the device and the motivation span I was pleased.

Fast forward to the release of the iPhone 7/8, and I’m rocking my 5s which is
what I was using when testing the oneplus- and now Apple are making phones as
large as the oneplus and removing the headphone jack. Also that protruding
camera is gaudy.

So I bought a Samsung Galaxy S8, which is large but the curved corners made it
fit my hand quite well.

I figure since it’s a flagship phone it will be a premium android experience
and preceded to make it my daily driver (which I had not done with the
oneplus)

Now, something of note: I roll my own carddav/CalDAV and mail servers, in iOS
these slot right in to the default apps and you can do nice things like push
notify on email if you set your server up to do so. I spent weeks trying to
find apps in the play store that could handle CalDAV and carddav. There’s a
heavily promoted one that just doesn’t work. The default apps definitely
didn’t work, Samsung’s version of android (at the time) was simply incapable
of it.

Not to mention the UI bugs, the themes that had black text on black
backgrounds in menus, the freezes and crashes and after 4-5months I had
started to get quite sour.

The thing that tipped me over the edge with going from disliking the phone to
hating it was when it decided on my behalf that it wouldn’t let me send an sms
without signing up for a Samsung account.

I had avoided making a Samsung account for over 5 months and then it brings up
a dialog that never goes away while I try to open the messaging app.

I gave that thing to one of my colleagues and he’s happy. I went back to an
iPhone SE.

~~~
kingofpandora
Too late now I guess, but davDroid is great and is available on F-Droid:
[https://f-droid.org/en/packages/at.bitfire.davdroid/](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/at.bitfire.davdroid/)

------
mikedilger
My biggest grievance with android and smart phones in general is their
pathetically short support period. I have a stack of phones which are
perfectly functional hardware but no longer updated. If you wait for the price
of a newly released phone to come down to the knee in the price curve, you've
waited too long because that phone will only be supported for about one more
year. This angers me greatly and I have a strong emotional aversion to even
the idea of buying a new smartphone. I may even cut off my nose to spite my
face in this regard and buy a dumb phone.

~~~
pishpash
Buy only bootloader unlockable phones. But Googlers are doing their best these
days to disable them as "insecure".

~~~
justaj
Does that really make such a difference? If the baseband and wifi require
closed binary blobs which are cryptographically signed to a specific kernel
version, what is the point of having an unlocked bootloader or installing
alternative ROMs?

~~~
solarkraft
How common are blobs cryptographically signed to a specific kernel version?

My impression was that with AOSP running it's fairly easy to update the
Android versions (the blobs can still contain vulnerabilies, of course).

------
snek
I feel like the android ecosystem is so diverse its hard to write any
comprehensive review about it.

I've had a fantastic experience on my OnePlus devices over the last few years.

To this point, I would have titled this "hello moto whatever and samsung
whatever"

~~~
rabidrat
> the android ecosystem is so diverse its hard to write any comprehensive
> review about it

That in and of itself is the basis for a meta-review. The OP says this, in
fact:

> I suppose this is really my fault for not spending enough time, not doing
> enough research, not reading enough forums to buy the correct phone. Maybe
> some people are just too stupid to deserve a good phone.

and this is one of the reasons why I can't bring myself to buy an Android
phone. There's not enough hours in the day to do adequate research, and then,
as other comments here note, the experience even changes pretty rapidly as
e.g. Google's focus shifts away from the Pixel 2 when they release the Pixel
3!

------
phreack
I want to pile on the hate of both that garish startup screen. Seriously, it's
not just terrible, it turns the brightness to the max and switches between
high saturation colors so fast it literally hurts my eyes. If anyone working
for Moto is around here please speak up about it, it's _that_ bad.

------
sliken
When buying phones for the USA, buy a phone for the USA. Buying grey
market/used phones intended for other markets will cause problems. Not to
mention those grey market phones are often stolen and black listed elsewhere.

If you want it to "just work" like an iphone, you'll likely be happiest to get
a Pixel.

Especially with google fi, get a USA phone. Then your phone will work in most
foreign markets... including Canada.

------
snazz
Well, pretty much expected for Google software on Android. Surprisingly, the
base OS is fine, it's just the proprietary stuff on top that sucks. You're
unlikely to get Fi working with AOSP, but it looks like you're unlikely to get
it working anyway.

Sent from my LineageOS phone, getting security updates weekly, very stable,
and better looking, in my opinion.

~~~
spraak
Wow cool, I've been wanting to run a more true Linux based phone. What country
and carrier are you using?

~~~
snazz
It’s still Android, just minus the Google stuff (no Play Services, all open
source minus binary drivers, etc). I’ve used both AT&T and Sprint in the US
and have had no problems at all. People who want the Google stuff can still
flash Play Services before the first boot if they want and that works good
too.

The device list covers lots of stuff you can buy cheaply used (upgrade a
Galaxy S4 to Android 9, for instance) as well as high-end new devices:
[https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/)

~~~
pishpash
Won't pass Safetynet check without a lot of cat-and-mouse games, so it will be
crippled by Google's fiat.

~~~
solarkraft
I run Nitrogen OS with Magisk on my Pocophone F1 and it passes the SafetyNet
checks.

------
dvduval
I use so many apps in the Google ecosystem like Gmail and chrome and they
simply work better on Android. I still can't get push notifications in the
browser on iOS. Now Google has brought the Chromebook into play and it's
rocking. I can see how if you have been using Apple for a long time and then
you switch to something foreign to you then of course it's going to be awkward
at first. That's perfectly normal but this article is just silly.

------
ardit33
My third smartphone was an android, and unfortunately Android is a 'death by
thousands cuts' type of experience....

I remember, even when their Dev APi and kits came out, the API was convoluted,
unnecessary complex, and also a 'death by thousands cuts' type of experience.
IOS development is much better, (the pain point on iOS has always been the
signing/cert and test distribution experience, but working with XCOde and iOS
Simulators is still a much better experience).

Since then I turned into iOS and never looked back.

I think the reason is that google keeps hiring people that know how to
implement Radix sort in top of their heads, and balance a Graph under 2 mins,
but really know nothing about UX/UI and overall user experience. Good (native)
client work is just not part of their DNA. Youtube, Maps and Gmail being an
exception. While Music and all their myriad of chat/social apps being a
failure.

I don't think there is going to be a change in the company unless they start
fresh with new priorities, user experience before Academic Experimental mental
exercises that their APIs tend to become.

Perhaps Fuschia OS is that change.....

------
Doubl
I have that exact phone, the Moto G6, I love it, about one third the price of
an iPhone. I turned off the sound on the intro, I only turn the thing off and
on every few weeks anyway. The security updates install when you let them. I
doubt there's anything you can do on the iPhone that you can't do on this.

------
nathanasmith
The author mentioned the Galaxy Tab S5e but I don't see anybody discussing it
so I thought I'd give it a go seeing as I'm typing this on one. In short, I
think it's great. Very thin and light considering the screen dimensions. Also,
that screen has very thin bezels that are just thick enough to make holding it
comfortable. The screen is extremely vibrant OLED that makes my iPad 2017 look
washed out in comparison. The tablet has a light Samsung skin overlayed but
it's still very fast and responsive though not quite as smooth as the iPad.

Android on a tablet is not for everybody though since depending on your app
choices you could be in for a lot of programs intended for a phone looking
blown up on this screen. So far, that hasn't been an issue for me since I
mostly stick to the browser, Anki, Ghost Commander, Moonreader, emulators like
SNES9X and PPSSPP which all either have tablet UIs or it's just not relevant.

The last thing I got this tablet for and which also works great is Termux to
have a real command line interface and, though I didn't plan for this, Linux
on DEX which gives you either a full blown Ubuntu desktop or you can just
start up a BASH interface in a couple of seconds. It's great and it's the real
thing right on the tablet. Even works with a keyboard and mouse with the
Ubuntu desktop appearing on the tablet rather than external display. It's
amazingly responsive too. Much moreso than I expected on a Snapdragon 670 with
6GB of RAM.

If you're thinking about an Android tablet, give this thing a shot. I don't
work for Samsung; I'm just a happy user and since OP mentioned it and seemed
to be satisfied as well, here's my 2 cents.

Edit: also my girlfriend has a Motorola Play Z something or other and that
splash screen really is something else with the "HELLO MOTO" blaring and the
robot doing a backflip I cringe every time she reboots it.

------
bkanber
Counterpoint: I got a Pixel 2 while also switching from T-Mobile to Fi.
Surprisingly only took like 20 minutes to transfer my number over and get the
phone set up.

The only problem I've had with the phone is the dumb USB to 3.5mm audio
dongle. Each one I've had breaks after only a few months of use. Very
frustrating because I generally dislike bluetooth headphones but am forced to
use them.

I've been loving Fi (it's great if you travel a lot but are also usually on
wifi), I've used it in several countries and I end up paying around $35-40/mo
(2 GB data or so). If I need to use more data I just go ahead and do so,
without having to worry about what kind of plan I'm on, and I'm billed for it
in a straightforward manner. Some people complain that their pricing is bad
for heavy data users, but my usage just naturally lands at the 2Gb/mo mark so
it works for me. I've had much better coverage in the US with Fi as well.

------
eurg
In case anyone wants to avoid bad Android issues by buying an AndroidOne
phone: I have one (Nokia 3.1+), I'm stuck at Android 8.1, the security update
is from February 5th...

After having been burned w.r.t. security updates by Samsung, then Motorola,
and now Nokia, I'm more or less done with Android (once I have enough money to
ignore the wasted Euros...).

It seems only people able and willing to spend 500+ Euros every year deserve
basic security on Android.

not amused

------
Groxx
> _Finally it stops, with January’s update. It is no longer January. I’m stuck
> at Android 8.0 January 2019 Security Patch. I manually check for updates
> again, and again, but my phone insists it is up to date. I do not like
> Android. Android is a liar._

No, it's up to date. I have the same phone - Jan security patch is the latest.

------
apl002
i was an iphone 4-7 user and switched to pixel 2 and now im on pixel 3. I've
enjoyed my pixel device a lot. my setup experience was nice and the transfer
of data from my iPhone 7 to my pixel 2 was very smooth. one thing i should
note however is my day job is being a pm for my company's android & ios teams.
So i've had a lot of experience with an array of android devices that has made
my experience pretty seamless.

------
hitekker
> I suppose this is really my fault for not spending enough time, not doing
> enough research, not reading enough forums to buy the correct phone. Maybe
> some people are just too stupid to deserve a good phone.

A common conceit among those who uses a tool or product that is impenetrable
to others. It's particularly bothersome when this weak rationalization forms
an equally weak pillar of that person's identity, a.k.a. the fanboy / fangirl.

------
meerita
I switched in 2012. I never went back to iOS. For me, iOS died with Jobs. Once
Jobs got really bad health, he couldn't guide the OS to the next level and iOS
became dull in all senses. Android instead jumped to the next level with Kit
kat and then with Material design. Material Design is really awesome and i
loved all the gestures, customization and services around the OS.

------
hestefisk
iPhone / iOS may sometimes be a pain due to how closed it is, but it just
works. And it doesn’t spy on you (allegedly).

~~~
FoxInBoxers
Nor are they apparently as talkative, even when idle

* [https://digitalcontentnext.org/blog/2018/08/21/google-data-c...](https://digitalcontentnext.org/blog/2018/08/21/google-data-collection-research/)

* [https://i.imgur.com/sy9VZO1.png](https://i.imgur.com/sy9VZO1.png) (image from report)

------
rudiv
>First, we need to order a SIM. You can order a sim with a new number, which
is what I did, but you must also enter a phone number for the delivery
address. If you are trying to sign up for Fi, but do not currently have a
phone number, I guess you’re out of luck. Somebody didn’t really work that
user story all the way through.

Fi is designed for phones with eSIMs. With any model of Pixel and a small list
of other phones, you don't need to wait for a physical SIM to be shipped to
you, and (anecdotal) the 3 times I used it the activation was complete in <10
minutes.

>Once it turns on, the screen plays this insane Hello Moto video thing with
flashing colors. Possibly the most garish thing I’ve ever seen, without
exaggeration.

Let me guess, you're an American who lives in suburbia? In places where the
smartphone market is competitive you get a lot more garishness, so I guess
your views don't align with the majority of customers on that one.

>I pass through the airport and get to the bus stop. Still no data.
Fortunately, I already knew which bus to take. I arrive at my destination
downtown. Still no data. I wait a bit longer. I wait a whole fucking week.
Still no data. I do not know what Google defines a few minutes to be, but I
think reasonable people will agree it’s less than a week. I do not like Google
Fi. Google Fi is a liar.

Project Fi has had the best support of all 8 cell phone carriers I've ever
used, so if anyone else is in a similar situation, don't be afraid to check
with their support, since one of the selling points of Project Fi is ease of
access to support on a smartphone.

>The on screen keyboard defaults to shifting the first letter of a sentence,
which is helpful. Unless I’m doing something esoteric like entering a username
into a website. So then I press the shift key, which... turns on caps lock.
Nobody wants that.

You've been able to choose what keyboard you want for a decade on Android and
the case you describe is the only time I've heard of that problem since a
couple generations ago. AOSP keyboard will still capitalize if the website has
incorrectly marked the field as text rather than a username, but that's not
really the keyboard's fault.

There are way maybe genuine criticisms of Android in this comment section than
there are in the article. If you approach a new piece of technology expecting
to dislike it - or expecting it to perfectly mimic it's competitors - you're
going to have a bad time. Most of the criticism in the OP (to me) smacks of
someone who doesn't really want to be using Android. For most of 2018 I was
using an SE alongside my Pixel 2; I noticed plenty of issues with Android and
iOS in the course of that usage, but not one of those overlaps with the
article, which makes me think either mine or the OP's usage was superficial.

~~~
c256
>Project Fi has had the best support of all 8 cell phone carriers I've ever
used...

There are many reports of Project Fi having excellent support that turned into
total horror when Project Fi ended and was replaced by Google Fi. They
frequently show up here on HN, they often involve GFi charging people money
for GFi errors, and they nearly always center around the fact that the service
has only the thinnest vernier of front-line support followed by forced
cancellation. The only effective next step anyone has been able to demonstrate
is ‘Internet shaming’.

This all makes me sad, as I was hoping to transition to the service late last
year. I’m still hoping that things improve eventually, but the trend seems
ever downward.

------
redacted
How is this at the top of HN? There's a lot to argue against Google and
Android, but this is just inane. Complaining about the _splash screen_ of a
phone? This is clickbait for /r/apple at best...

~~~
nextos
He complains about more fundamental things than the splash screen, which I
agree is an unimportant issue as it is manufacturer dependent.

For example, he mentions the issue of getting updates one by one, or being
stuck with an old system.

~~~
saagarjha
> I agree is an unimportant issue

It literally yells “Hello Moto” at you…do you not feel like this is
unimportant if you wanted to say reboot your phone in a quiet place?

~~~
ce4
Exactly this. The Moto G6 boot animation resembles more a video game cut
scene. Its inappropriately loud and flashy and doesn't match the rest of the
Moto G5/G6 experience. It cannot be muted, I hated rebooting it.

Edit: it can be switched off. settings=> sound=> advanced=> startup sound

[https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=hello+moto+boot](https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=hello+moto+boot)

------
irascible
I just got a pixel 3 about 3 months ago.. They delivered it in about 48 hours,
and it was ready to go w google fi. Have been using it like crazy, and it
takes the best pictures of any camera I've ever owned. The voice recog is
flawless to the point where I literally rely on it. I've never seen it
download an update. Granted it cost me about 1g all together, which is more
than I've ever paid for a phone.. but so far my experience has been fantastic.

~~~
snazz
If you’ve never seen it download an update, then either it is downloading,
installing, and rebooting into them them in the background without you
noticing at all (impressive) or it’s not receiving security updates (very
scary).

------
salex89
Ok, so you chose a random Android phone because it is mentioned on the Google
Fi homepage, although a simple search would let you know that any unlocked
phone is adequate. You realized you bought a bad phone for you without
previously looking into what are you buying and you're dissatisfied with
Android? You know what, stick to your iPhone.

~~~
spraak
Yeah, unless the author just wanted to write in a dismissive and flippant
style, it seems they didn't do much research first

~~~
fastball
I think it's meant to be at least a little tongue-in-cheek.

