
Dear Microsoft - davidhariri
https://slackhq.com/dear-microsoft-8d20965d2849#.3wj6j4611
======
taneem
What a patronizing and condescending piece. All I got from this is that
Microsoft has launched something in this space that is really worth taking a
look at, if it prompts a competitor to write and publish something like this.

~~~
mathetic
>> What a patronizing and condescending piece.

That's why it is so great. Of course, only time will tell if their display of
strength is of fear or confidence.

~~~
forgottenpass
If it was confidence, they wouldn't have to share their confidence with anyone
outside their office.

They could have sent a cake. Or took an ad like the ones Spielberg and Lucas
did when the other broke box office records.

------
davidhariri
This was published in the Times today and it came across as passive aggressive
and insecure to me, but I'm curious to hear what others think of this stunt...

Link to Times ad:
[https://mobile.twitter.com/stewart/status/793811616760496128](https://mobile.twitter.com/stewart/status/793811616760496128)

~~~
Analemma_
Historically, letters like this don't bode well for the company writing them.
People are drawing comparisons to Apple's "Welcome, IBM. Seriously" ad from
1981. Rdio sent one to Apple when Apple Music was launched too.

~~~
davidhariri
Yes! I was racking my head trying to remember where I had heard this before,
thanks!

------
tptacek
This is really terrible. Since nobody's name is actually on it, I assume their
marketing team wrote it.

I understand that Slack's valuation is based in part on the idea that they can
convert large portions of the enterprise market, and that Microsoft has a
pretty great track record of burning that market down. It makes sense that
they'd want to write something to maintain their claim on the enterprise
market.

But this piece can't decide who it's talking to, and so it's probably pretty
cringe-y to everyone.

~~~
douche
Microsoft already has the beachhead into the enterprise, with their Office 365
offerings. We're seeing most of our Fortune 500 customers move their email, at
least, to Office 365, and almost none of the smaller businesses go through the
hassle of managing their own Exchange infrastructure.

Once they are on Office 365 for email and Office, they basically get Skype,
Yammer, and all the other things thrown in for free. I'm sure that this will
fold into that same pattern, assuming it's, say, 75% as good as Slack.

~~~
seren
I work in a Fortune 500 company, our CTO has already announced on Yammer that
we will evaluate Microsoft Teams, because anyway, it is included in the Office
365 package. So yes, the bundling strategy seems to work.

------
mikestew
"We’re glad you’re going to be helping us define this new product category."

Wow, and folks give _Apple_ a hard time about acting like they invented stuff.
The hubris of Slack thinking there's some moral high ground for them to take
is astounding.

But their post does have me searching the web for Microsoft's offering.
Because I don't know what the hell Slack is on about, and I'm thinking what
Microsoft has might be better than the disjointed web-app-in-a-native-wrapper
thing Slack has going.

EDIT: found it, thanks to _whalesalad_ 's post in this thread. Okay, given
that the MSFT client looks a hell of a lot like Slack, I can see where they're
coming from. Still, it strikes me as someone who wrote the ubiquitous to-do
app and then buys an ad in the NYT when Apple includes the Reminders app in
iOS, welcoming Apple as they "define this new product category".

~~~
ohstopitu
While I would love more competition in this space, I doubt if MS will offer a
native app. They have recently moved Skype to an electron app (basically the
website in a wrapper)[0] so I don't expect this to be any different. While
this is in alpha (and only for linux), I expect them to move all their other
clients (apart from Windows) to this electron app.

[0] [http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/skype-linux-
alpha](http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/skype-linux-alpha)

~~~
ytpete
The Slack desktop app works pretty much the same way - native wrapper around
an HTML UI that is almost identical to their web UI. (I think they may use the
platform's native webview though, not Electron).

It has its pros & cons... one nice thing is that if you use the desktop app
most of the time, using the web UI on the go doesn't feel like much of an
adjustment. It has basically the full power of the desktop app because it's
the same UI code.

------
gizmo385
Anyone else find it a bit ironic (?) that they say "an open platform is
essential" but haven't open sourced their core code base? That feels like a
bit of a misstep to me.

~~~
mythz
They're referring to an open 3rd Party API platform - not giving away their
secret sauce.

~~~
Touche
Can you explain the difference between an open and a closed 3rd party API?

~~~
daveFNbuck
To develop an app using the Slack API, you do not need to register with Slack
and download an API key for your app. Anyone can just develop whatever they
like without having to ask permission first and there's no easy way to
selectively shut down apps that Slack doesn't like.

------
chris_7
When did Slack become an "open platform"?

Ugh, really hate work going this way. Slack is an all-day all-hands meeting
with no agenda. I miss async email.

~~~
rch
How did slack take away your email?

I treat slack as an async alternative to voice and video... maybe I'm doing it
wrong?

~~~
m3rc
Because people use it as an alternative to email? They obviously weren't
saying "Slack literally took away my ability to email" they were referring to
how everyone is actually using Slack to talk to each other

------
whalesalad
For those wondering what this is in response to,
[http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/25/13405200/microsoft-
teams-...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/25/13405200/microsoft-teams-slack-
competitor-launch)

~~~
ade2
Here's a video, "Introducing Microsoft Teams"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKU-
FMzZFF0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKU-FMzZFF0)

~~~
yoz-y
I think the application can be quite cool, but this video... ugh, it reminds
me somehow of the infomercials where people struggle to do the basic tasks.

------
d3ckard
Not really sure what the message is here. Somebody from MS could just answer:
"Thanks for the advice. We've been there before. We swallowed whole industries
without chewing and we have killed more competitors that we can remember. We
hope that you will still exist in the year to drive our creativity. Sincerely,
MS"

------
nmblackburn
Bad move on Slack, accept your competition and work to stay ahead of the game
that you no longer have a monopoly on.

~~~
pjmlp
They never were.

We only use a mix of Microsoft Lync and Lotus Sametime.

~~~
douche
> Lotus Sametime

You're hanging onto that still? We used to build a number of products for
Sametime, but IBM appears to have written it off and is hemorrhaging customers
jumping ship, to Lync/Skype mostly, or Jabber, to a lesser extent.

~~~
pjmlp
That is what happens when IT dictates the rules.

------
swingbridge
This comes across as sour grapes from Slack.

Also, if you want to talk about "open solutions" then make your own solution
open.

------
aarpmcgee
I would describe the tone of this whole thing as "shit-eating"

~~~
dovdov
or more like "pants-shat"

their only hope is what they hope for in this writing, MS f's up somewhere in
the process and create another yammer. I hope they won't, competition is
healthy. ;)

------
swehner
Ironic. I don't think Slack is particularly well designed.

Use it every day. And it's always unpleasant.

Why does it say "New mentions" when I wasn't actually mentioned, just someone
said something in some other chat.

Also, I find it pretty tedious to switch back and forth between discussions.

In terms of UI design, I suspect they don't have a good team.

Maybe it just tries to please too many people?

------
echelon
Now I'm interested in Microsoft's product. I'm certainly not in love with
Slack. I'd love for someone to eat their lunch.

------
tzs
Several commentators here seem unaware that "open platform" and "open source"
are distinct concepts. From the Wikipedia article on "open platform" [1]:

" _In computing, an open platform describes a software system which is based
on open standards, such as published and fully documented external application
programming interfaces (API) that allow using the software to function in
other ways than the original programmer intended, without requiring
modification of the source code. Using these interfaces, a third party could
integrate with the platform to add functionality.[1] The opposite is a closed
platform._ "

An open platform can be closed source. A good example is Microsoft Windows.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_platform)

~~~
dawnerd
The confusion comes from Slack acting like Teams won't also have an open api
for integrations.

------
andrewla
Microsoft Teams [1] is apparently what this is in response to. I would not
have even heard of it had this piece not gone out, ironically enough.

[1] [https://products.office.com/en-US/microsoft-teams/group-
chat...](https://products.office.com/en-US/microsoft-teams/group-chat-
software)

------
devonharvey
I think the time they spend agonizing over how to slip some humor into their
release notes would be better spent making their platform faster or improving
their convoluted message search.

~~~
orthecreedence
Agreed, and not making me create a new account every time I join a new team.
Now I have to remember which account I used for which team. It's silly.

~~~
scabbycakes
I can see how that's annoying for sure.

Some people like me see the discrete accounts as a definite positive though!

------
socialist_coder
If MS can nail the creation and organization of "micro channels", that would
be a huge innovation in this space that Slack has not been able to figure out
yet.

We are a 100% remote company and we use Slack and Teamspeak as our primary
communication tools. Our biggest problem with Slack is when multiple
conversations are happening in the same channel. There should be a way to
segregate those convos into separate "theads", without having to make new
channels.

That would be a huge win for whatever chat product can solve this pain point.
Unfortunately, innovation is probably not a huge payoff since the competition
would simply copy the feature =(

~~~
Voloskaya
Teams does allow you to respond to a specific message, linking messages
together into threads. So you can have multiple threads into a single channel.

------
Fifer82
Dear Slack. No one cares.

~~~
tluyben2
Beginning of this year Slack was the new internet and now no one cares. For me
it is just another chat client/server: not sure what the fuss was about. And
not open source does not help nor does the non native client. Good to see
companies continue trying as the revolutionairy collab tool does not exist
yet.

~~~
Fifer82
Yeah! Everyone was foaming at the mouth about it. My BS detector was strong,
now when I log into slack, look at my various channels, including the company.
I just see tumbleweeds.

------
SamUK96
A new dimension of passive aggressiveness.

Honestly though, that's hilarious.

------
allsystemsgo
Wow.

Okay so, definitely not applying to work for Slack anytime soon. This is not
the kind of attitude I would want to support.

------
jmkni
> _I love your new coat, Microsoft, it doesn 't even make you look that fat!_

Slack

------
fillskills
Of all the platforms my team has used, Slack has been the most "polished".
Lots of things come under that, but its hard to define exactly. Speed, Design
details, consistency etc. Product quality is just very high with Slack. Only
Whatsapp comes close in some of those matters.

~~~
mugsie
Right now, I am in 3 slacks, and have maybe 50 channels open. Slack is
currently chewing 2+ GB of RAM. Its not that polished.

I also have irssi open. it has 7 IRC networks, and ~ 120 channels - its taking
144MB of RAM.

~~~
fillskills
Good to know! I only have two teams on a Macbook. No issues so far. These are
things that will matter if they want to continue growing at the rate they were
used to.

------
seertaak
Translation: we're scared.

------
chiefalchemist
#Yawn

Completely pointless. To think someone got paid to write that shite...

------
mobiuscog
Dear Slack,

Try sending them an email - it's a better medium (pun-intended) for this, than
an open opinion piece pushed to the general public.

Unless of course, you're marketing, in which case honesty can be a much better
policy.

~~~
xkcd-sucks
Better yet, send it as a daily message from @slackbot

------
socialist_coder
What is this letter in response to?

~~~
Voloskaya
Microsoft Teams (Slack competitor) will be launched in a few minutes:
[http://news.microsoft.com/november-2016-event/](http://news.microsoft.com/november-2016-event/)

~~~
raverbashing
Can ms do something better than the pile of crap that is Skype for business?

~~~
pjmlp
Just use Lotus Sametime for a few hours and you will worship Skype for
business for life.

~~~
douche
One slim advantage of Sametime, at least the ancient, pre-Eclipse clients, was
that you could actually run multiple instances and sign into two accounts at
the same time.

Lync has a stupid mutex that prevents this.

~~~
pjmlp
Ah, we don't have that problem because that is anyway forbidden, we are only
allowed to use our official account.

------
fuzzieozzie
Anyone feeling defensive or threatened today?

~~~
sidcool
If I was Slack I would be terrified. My only USP is a chat client. Microsoft
has an easy to integrate with other MS products chat chat system.

------
ohstopitu
While I was aware of the MS product, I never took it seriously (I mean, it's
from the same company that rebranded Lync to Skype for business).

Now that Slack has posted this, I intend to give this a look and a trial
(hopefully it does not require an O365 subscription) as it just tells me that
Slack is either annoyed or scared of Skype teams (either one being a good
enough reason for consumers to check it out)

~~~
greenhatman
I think they're scared that Microsoft Teams will take part of the enterprise
market segment. The part that already uses a lot of other Microsoft products.
So Slack will likely lose out on that now. People who don't use anything
Microsoft will likely not take a second look at Microsoft Teams.

I'd personally probably rather look at something open source and self hosted,
if I was going to move away from Slack.

The only real thing that I image Microsoft Teams would be able to do that
Slack can't, is integrate with MS tools better and easier.

------
sidcool
I wonder when the Google apps suite will bring a rich chat feature to
enterprise. The G suite is promising.

------
smacktoward
Ugh.

If you want to do something like this _right_ , the way to do it is the way
Data General wanted to do it when IBM, then the 800-pound gorilla of the
computer world, entered into DG's minicomputer market. (Which is described in
Tracy Kidder's classic book _The Soul of a New Machine_
([https://www.amazon.com/Soul-New-Machine-Tracy-
Kidder/dp/0316...](https://www.amazon.com/Soul-New-Machine-Tracy-
Kidder/dp/0316491977))

The ad they proposed was much simpler -- a full page that said only the
following:

 _They say IBM 's entry into minicomputers will legitimize the market._

 _The bastards say, welcome._

------
xxdesmus
Sometimes it's worth not writing things like this ...all Slack managed to do
here was draw more attention to Microsoft's announcement. A way of marketing
$$ if you ask me.

------
voidr
To me Slack was always just a shiny IRC clone where your sensitive
communication data sits inside an American company.

I find it ironic that Slack calls Microsoft out for making something like
Slack for the enterprise.

I sincerely hope one day we'll have something like
[https://matrix.org/](https://matrix.org/) and
[https://riot.im/](https://riot.im/) as the standard.

------
forgettableuser
Since all the posts here seem pretty negative about Slack's response, I'm
genuinely curious...how do you think a smaller company should respond when a
huge company decides to enter their competitive space?

I ask because I've been an employee at multiple start ups before and seen this
kind of situation happen multiple times. I have not yet seen a response that
gets received well. And silence gets perceived by existing customers as
weakness or fear.

------
buckbova
> So welcome, Microsoft, to the revolution.

Honestly slack doesn't feel much different than IRC and wasn't it built on
this originally. What revolution is this anyway? Lame.

And MS has had yammer for a while now (2012).

[https://www.yammer.com/](https://www.yammer.com/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yammer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yammer)

~~~
douche
Yammer died the minute that acquisition went through. I was working on a data
compliance tool for Yammer at the time, and my employer had a handful of large
enterprises lined up to purchase it. When the news broke that Microsoft had
bought them, they all went _noop_ and abandoned Yammer.

Four years later, Yammer looks exactly the same, and the data access API that
I was using, which was supposed to be facing imminent deprecation, is still
there.

~~~
buckbova
> Yammer died the minute that acquisition went through.

Somewhat comically yammer was just rolled out to my company this year. Perhaps
we got free licensing for it. I'm not sure.

For offices with mostly remote users slack or even yammer might be a great
option for dialog. I'm in the email camp for a running dialog of well thought
out replies or a group IM for rollouts or some other conversation that can't
be done face to face.

------
raisedadead
What a disaster.

They speak about an open platform (forget open-source), just being open to
communities that might benefit from their expertise.

Here is a piece from ages ago, what slack means for huge communities:
[https://medium.freecodecamp.com/so-yeah-we-tried-slack-
and-w...](https://medium.freecodecamp.com/so-yeah-we-tried-slack-and-we-
deeply-regretted-it-391bcc714c81)

------
kzisme
News to me that MS is launching a new product. I hate slack to begin with, but
after using 'Skype For Business' my expectations are pretty low with this new
product.

I'm assuming it's going to fail much like Yammer did - the screenshot looks
like a rip-off of Slackanyways...

------
kayoone
Slack somehow became the de facto standard for "internal IRC" but i do think
it does many things not particularly well. Then writing an article like this
as if their product is the reinvention of human communication feels
patronizing and VERY cringy (to me anyway).

------
k__
This was to expect. I don't wanna know how much companies didn't use Slack
just because it seemed like something crazy and hip.

Now, before Slack has the time to become "old, known and reliable" Microsoft
jumps in and steals these potential customers :D

I like it.

------
joshu
Flickr tried to patent something that I had invented. After the acquisition
the Yahoo lawyers caught this and had to add me to the patents.

The "we are better" thing they claim is just marketing. They are as cutthroat
as anybody else.

I have plenty of other stories.

Beware.

------
serg_chernata
The biggest keyword in this "ad" is their competitor's brand name.

------
SanDimasFootbal
This was Slack's Liam Gallagher, moment. At the peak of their fame Oasis shits
on the Beatles and every great band that has come before.

McCartly responds- "Now go and do better than The Beatles did"

------
aarpmcgee
How did this get buried from the front page so quickly? Hmm.

------
bjornlouser
"When we ... agonize over the best way to slip some humor into release notes,
..."

Ugh

------
throwaway110116
Narc Rage, anyone?

------
meira
This was one of the most stupid post I've seem a company publish. I don't know
about what he is talking but I'm going to search it with a feeling that this
guy is a looser.

Edit: more stupid than I thought! They bought a full page ad. Edit 2: I hate
M$, but Slack doesn't help either.

------
pinaceae
Thanks to Slack we now know that MS is launching a competitor.

Never mention the competition, always focus on your shit.

But yeah, we get it - first Facebook Workplace, now MS Team. Slack might get
pushed into the feature/addon category faster than it can move into full
product. Hard to reach the crazy valuation that way.

~~~
brandon272
Yes, I found that strange. After reading the first few words ("Congratulations
on today’s announcements.") my first thought was, "What announcements?" ..
then after reading for 30 more seconds the second reaction was, "Slack is
scared and not happy about this", which is something that wouldn't have
crossed my mind had they not written this.

