
Single Mother Facing Prison for Selling Homemade Mexican Dish to Undercover Cop - protomyth
http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/06/single-mother-facing-prison-for-selling
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blacksmith_tb
It's one thing that these laws are on the books, but it astounds me that
police departments are going to such lengths to enforce them. A sting
operation to catch one unregulated cook? I can think of dozens of more serious
crimes that need their attention first.

~~~
zmonkeyz
Yeah but # of arrests looks good in the end of year evaluation.

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numtel
In order to get around this legal issue, could someone accept money only to
cover the cost of the groceries? There would be some markup but, on paper, the
preparation/cooking would not be part of the transaction.

Subverting zoning and health regulations does open a very real possibility for
people to get sick though. I wonder if a product could be created that would
scan individual food items for illness causing pathogens, allowing people to
legally trade food without a licensed kitchen.

~~~
protomyth
> Subverting zoning and health regulations does open a very real possibility
> for people to get sick though.

That's a load of garbage. Zoning and health are good things for actual
businesses, but doing something on an individual level should be between two
people. The courts can handle it if something goes wrong. Scale matters, and
there is a long tradition of bake sales and the like in the US.

Do you expect babysitters to have a business license and be inspected? How
about the neighborhood kid you get to cut your lawn? Not having a firewall
between individuals / amateurs and actual business rules is just wrong.

~~~
numtel
It would be great if we had policies that supported amateur businesses but the
costs and red-tape are currently overwhelming.

If I prepare a meal for my neighbor for a few dollars and then they
subsequently have to spend a few days in hospital because they got E.Coli due
to my accidental mishandling of some spinach, should I be liable for their
medical costs?

For how over-reaching New Zealand's government is about gardening, they do
have an interesting plan with accident insurance, centralizing the risk for
accidents of all kinds.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_Compensation_Corporat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_Compensation_Corporation)

With tort reform like that, could it more reasonable for people to operate
small-scale, less-regulated businesses?

~~~
protomyth
> It would be great if we had policies that supported amateur businesses but
> the costs and red-tape are currently overwhelming.

In rural America, we don't have those rules because we don't need them.

> If I prepare a meal for my neighbor for a few dollars and then they
> subsequently have to spend a few days in hospital because they got E.Coli
> due to my accidental mishandling of some spinach, should I be liable for
> their medical costs?

Yep, they are going to sue you or maybe not. If you buy something at a bake
sale you should understand you are taking a chance. If you decide to sue, I
guess you find out how your peers think about who is responsible.

> With tort reform like that, could it more reasonable for people to operate
> small-scale, less-regulated businesses?

If you open an actual business, I'm perfectly fine with you obeying the
regulations and having them in the first place. I am not fine with arresting
people for bake sales and making some food for you are your request. There is
a simple, logical difference of scale between these activities and only an
absolutist government or individuals cannot distinguish between them

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jMyles
> It's true that McDaniel didn't make the law. But the people who did probably
> intended for her to exercise discretion in cases like this one, where the
> alleged perpetrator didn't really do anything wrong.

...but this is the exact reason that these things _can 't_ be left in the
hands of the executive anymore. They don't make good decisions, and with the
internet, promulgation and understanding of the laws is much easier than ever
before.

~~~
edblarney
If McDonald's sold food without food inspections, the same people defending
here here - would riot.

She likely did do something wrong - you can't just go and cook food and sell
it without the proper license = food inspection etc..

Obviously, she should be not facing any jail time, and a warning should
suffice.

But let's not avoid the reality of this - we either have decent regulation or
not.

The issue here 'proportionality' not 'culpability'.

Give her a 'speeding ticket' and it should be over.

~~~
jMyles
To be clear: it's not at all obvious to me why, in the internet age, we need
any sort of violence in order to regulate food. I am happy to let the
government be completely relieved from this obligation.

And regardless, whatever the law is, I'm happy to see it enforced, vigorously
and to-the-letter. Hoping against the odds for executive "discretion" to
result in anything but fomenting of privilege is simply contrary to the
evidence of its conduct thus far.

TL;DR: Few laws; vigorous, robotic enforcement.

~~~
edblarney
"we need any sort of violence in order to regulate food. I a"

\+ We need laws to regulate food esp. hygiene and sanitary standards. If you
want to know why this is, then visit any less civilized place and look around.
Restaurants are thin margin places - some of them will cut corners, do all
sorts of stuff otherwise.

\+ All laws need enforcement - and they are enforced with the threat of fines,
confiscation, and ultimately the threat of violence.

For the same reason we need 'the threat of violence' to manage traffic,
borders, and everything else.

The only time it's not obvious is when there is no physicality to the crime,
i.e. fraud, corruption etc. but even then the 'threat of violence' is there
when it comes to arrest/incarceration etc..

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Mathnerd314
The California Homemade Food Act FAQ:
[http://www.theselc.org/cottage_food_law_faq](http://www.theselc.org/cottage_food_law_faq)

~~~
DerekL
I read that, and I see that ceviche is NOT on the list of allowed foods for a
Cottage Food Operation.

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Mz
Well, I am all for food inspection laws, but the picture painted by the
article does not indicate this was intended to be a business. It is more like
if you ate at a friend's house and helped cover the cost of the meal because
the friend was poor.

We don't have to declare taxes if we make less than $600 on some activity. It
isn't considered a real business if you only occasionally make a few bucks
here and there. This "sting" operation targeting a pot luck group seems
ridiculous.

I was a military wife. We needed to go through training to participate in
certain things, like food sales as a means to raise funds. I never bothered to
go through that training. It never prevented me from bringing a dish from home
to a potluck meal at the unit.

As someone who gets food poisoning easily, I am all for there being strict
laws concerning even small scale commercial food things. But this does not
sound like it really was a commercial venture.

This is just ridiculous. Surely, we have more serious concerns for our cops to
be attending to than trying to break a potluck ring. Sheesh.

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sharemywin
wonder how many school bakes sales they've shut down?

~~~
digikata
In my area, all of them. Basically all school & pta functions in my area
eschew any homemade baked goods for reasons of food safety regulation or
insurance policy coverage. I think it's a terrible shame that such a
humanistic level of neighbourly personal/cultural exchange has been
extinguished.

~~~
edblarney
Sad.

It's probably not even a legal issue, so much as an insurance thing.

I wonder if there could be a special law passed for such things, i.e. you
participate and you 'waive your right to sue' kind of thing?

~~~
digikata
Private companies/organizations could be started if it were just an insurance
thing, but it's a little of both, and the food regulations are the difficult
ones to avoid. That does take sustained lobbying.

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rokosbasilisk
this isnt uncommon. my favorite ice cream maker got shut down on similar
charges.

