

Sitting for hours can shave years off life - nswanberg
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/06/24/sitting.shorten.life/index.html

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Shenglong
Sitting kills you, saturated fats kill you, disposable chopsticks kills you,
sugar kills you... We're so concerned about how to extend the time we have,
that we're neglecting the time we actually do have.

Here's me: I haven't eaten vegetables since I was 8 years old. I sit down in
front of a computer screen for multiple hours a day. I eat any junk food I
want, as long as it tastes good. I drop a ton of water weight before a fight
for weighing purposes. I've learned the physically straining technique,
_Needle through Glass_ (throwing a sewing needle through a pane of glass), and
I do a lot of binge training.

Although I'm perfectly healthy right now, is it possible that I'll die when
I'm 60? Yeah. But at least I'll have fully enjoyed my life. It beats the hell
out of half living for 90 years. Not to mention, it's also possible your life
will be cut short by a rampaging bus... and that has nothing to do with
preventable measures.

My two cents.

~~~
golgo13
I remember hearing a guy say something along the lines of: You do all these
things to extend your life, but you're not extending your 20's and 30's.
You're extending your 70's and 80's.

~~~
cpeterso
Staying healthy is not just about living "just a few more years". It's about
quality of life. Being unhealthy at 70 is painful and expensive.

~~~
atomicdog
Similarly, being unhealthy at 20 is a waste of time. You can eat cheetos at
any age.

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mark_l_watson
I almost died of complications from blod clots in my left leg 4 1/2 years ago.
I recovered OK, but I have been on the _war_ _path_ since then warning people
about not sitting too long - both my doctor and I think that working too long
at a desk without breaks caused my blood clots.

I recommend simply setting a timer for about 20 minutes as a reminder to get
up and walk around for a minute or two. Also, it is probably a good idea to
walk around the block (at least) a few times each work day.

~~~
StavrosK
Hmm, maybe I should start a rule of 20 minutes of sitting/2 minutes of jumping
rope. With the calories jumping rope burns, I'll look amazing in no time.

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powrtoch
Has there been any study about whether standing desks are actually any better?
I can easily imagine that sitting motionless for 6 hours and standing
motionless for 6 hours have virtually the same effect on the body.

That is, let's not be so quick to patch the problem with the first thing that
isn't a chair.

~~~
gvb
See lkrubner post <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2702904> for a link to
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Morris> which clearly indicates standing
is not sufficient, exercise is necessary. (Please give lkrubner the karma
points for posting the link first.)

From Wikipedia, "[...] sedentary drivers of London's double-decker buses had
higher rates of cardiovascular disease than the conductors who climbed the
stairs" and "[Jerry Morris] performed further studies that showed slow
movements such as gardening helped very little and exercise had to be more
vigorous to help."

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lukev
Just bought a standing desk. I really like it. It isn't as comfortable
(obviously), and my legs, feet and back are sore by the end of the day. But
they're sore in a good, used way and fine by the next morning.

It definitely _feels_ healthier then the sore back and thighs I'd get from
sitting still all day.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
If standing desks ever take off, I wonder if we'll eventually face news
articles with titles like: "Standing for hours can shave years off life"...

~~~
btilly
_If standing desks ever take off, I wonder if we'll eventually face news
articles with titles like: "Standing for hours can shave years off life"..._

Very, very unlikely.

The whole "exercise good, sitting kills you" thing was first noticed in
England among bus drivers in 1953. There the driver and conductor were from
similar socio-economic backgrounds, similar pay, etc, but one sat all day, and
the other stood. Drivers died much faster than conductors. Every significant
followup since has confirmed the basic conclusion. Sitting all day is not
healthy for us.

~~~
lkrubner
Correct. Nothing in the last 60 years has undermined the basic conclusion:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Morris>

~~~
gvb
Thanks for the link. The conclusion actually indicates standing is _not_
sufficient, _exercise_ is necessary.

From Wikipedia, "[...] sedentary drivers of London's double-decker buses had
higher rates of cardiovascular disease than the conductors _who climbed the
stairs_ " and "[Jerry Morris] performed further studies that showed slow
movements such as gardening helped very little and exercise had to be more
vigorous to help."

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rkarthik
Another interesting and related article from New York Times: "Stand Up While
You Read This" - [http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/stand-up-
whi...](http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/stand-up-while-you-
read-this/)

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sandycheeks
As a marketer, I love this study because it's a variation on the "Make people
think they are thinking and they love you. Make them think and they'll hate
you." concept.

You're working hard. On your feet all day but this study proves that you're
going to outlive those people at corporate who are sitting at a desk all day.
You're better than them.

I can think of a lot of great products to market with this study like beer or
DIY stuff. Here in the US, I would not be surprised to see this study touted
by politicians looking for working class votes.

Make people think they are exercising more than others and they'll love you.
Make them exercise more and they'll hate you.

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tokenadult
I like using an exercise ball as my computer desk chair. That helps me move
around more as I'm at the computer. But there is no substitute for getting
outside and taking a walk, which I think I will do just now on one of our
first really pleasant, rain-free days of this year.

If you decide to get an exercise ball as a chair substitute, the advice I have
received from a YMCA trainer is to size it so that your hips are higher than
your knees when you sit on it. For a lot of men of near-average height, a 65cm
ball will do. The size can be adjusted up or down a little by how much you
inflate the ball.

~~~
mattlong
I too like them. Careful though, I had been using an exercise ball for a chair
for the better part of a year, just a couple weeks ago it popped while I was
sitting on it.

A couple other caveats: 1)it can bit quite tiring on your back (especially at
first) to sit on one for 8-10 hours. 2) since you're sitting on rubber, if
it's the least bit warm, things tend to get a bit sweaty down there... :)

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a3_nm
Correlation does not imply causation.

~~~
revorad
Every time someone invokes the correlation!=causation genie, Randall Munroe
comes to the rescue:

"Correlation does not imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows
suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'."

~~~
scott_s
In this case, I find it likely there's an underlying common cause. I suspect
the real culprit is the overall activity level of the person, and sitting is
just a part of that.

~~~
parfe
_What's particularly interesting about recent research is the revelation that
sitting for extended periods of time does significant damage to human health
that cannot be undone by exercising. Sitting for several hours each day is bad
for you, like smoking is bad for you, regardless of whether you do healthful
activities, too._

Which is why this story keeps coming up. Sitting for 8-10 hours a day is NOT
countered by going to the gym for another 2.

~~~
scott_s
The study, as far as I can tell from CNN's reporting, does not support this
conclusion. The relevant data: _In particular, the American Cancer Society
study finds that women who sit for more than six hours a day were about 40%
more likely to die during the course of the study than those who sat fewer
than three hours per day. Men were about 20% more likely to die._

They make no mention of also measuring overall activity levels, which you
would need to do to account for that potential confounding common cause.
Perhaps the real study did this, but CNN does not tell us, nor do they tell us
which study this actually was so we can look for ourselves. I suspect the real
study's conclusions are not as strong as this reporting on it.

~~~
parfe
Why is your quote from the article meaningful while mine is not? It's right
there!

"What's particularly interesting about recent research is the revelation that
sitting for extended periods of time does significant damage to human health
that cannot be undone by exercising."

Crappy reporting on science as usual, but it says it right there "recent
research" + "revelation" + "sitting for extended periods" + "damage" + "cannot
be undone by exercising."

~~~
scott_s
Because I find it less likely for the reporter to get basic facts wrong.
Conclusions are more subtle, and I don't know if it's the reporter's own
conclusions, the reporter's interpretation of the conclusions from the
original study, or an almost direct lift from the conclusions from the
original study. Since the data the reporter does present does not support the
conclusions he presents, I remain skeptical of them.

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pdovy
Kelly Starrett did a talk at Google recently on (roughly) this subject:
[http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/06/episode-276365-mobilitywo...](http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/06/episode-276365-mobilitywod-
google-talk-desk-bound.html)

He's got a PhD in Physical Therapy, so I'd rather listen to what he has to say
about being healthy behind a desk than a story with a sensationalist headline.

~~~
pstack
I'd rather enjoy what little life I have left than spend it avoiding all the
things that are supposedly going to shave years off my life and spending the
entire day standing. I got a nice cushy knowledge-worker career precisely so I
wouldn't spend the entire day standing while flipping burgers or digging
ditches, thanks.

Besides, I'm in pretty poor health due to my own lack of attention to it and
of all the things I could bother with, "standing all day at my desk" is pretty
far down on the list of what would actually make an important improvement.

Plus, you know, I'd rather spend thousands of dollars on something else. A
desk of any useful size that is able to bear any useful weight load on it and
is also adjustable in ranges enough to go from sitting to standing are
incredibly expensive. I'd rather use the money to pay three or four months of
my mortgage.

~~~
pdovy
If you bothered to look at the above linked article/video prior to replying
you'd find it is not some stirring endorsement of standing desks. He actually
explicitly makes the point that sitting _or_ standing poorly all day will be
detrimental to your health, and in reverse taking a few minutes to learn to do
either properly can have a significant positive impact.

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dmragone
I've been wanting to install an adjustable height desk at home to do just
this. The problem is I can't find one for less than $600-800. I'm comfortable
putting something together myself, but am not sure where to start. I'm open to
any suggestions that would get me to a large sit/stand adjustable desk in the
$200-400 range.

~~~
jkahn
Currently I am using two treated pine planks balanced on four pepsi can crates
as my temporary standing desk to see how I like it. It's in the office, not at
home. Linkage: <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17301814/IMG_0306.jpg>

Works great. I love it, even though it's a bit ugly.

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vessenes
I just put my chair on top of my desk while reading the post; my laptop is now
on it. Ghetto standing desk for the win.

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Egregore
I have a hack against sitting: have always a glass of water on your table and
drink from it permanently, this way you always need to go to refill the glass
and go to rest room to eliminate that water. So you wont be sitting more than
3 hours (usually you'll stand up at least each hour)

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resnamen
Sitting is insidious in its comfortableness.

Sitting for hours definitely contributed to my tight, tight hamstrings, and I
am paying the price for them right now. I have a bulging disc that is most
definitely the result of my tightness. I can barely lift any weight anymore, I
can't partake in my favorite activities, even sex has become a chore. It's had
a massively negative impact on my enjoyment of life in general.

I have a standing desk now, and I am spending lots of my time and money doing
physical therapy and related exercises.

To my desk-bound friends who still have good backs: take frequent breaks and
stretch those hammies!

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jvsu
Does sitting on an exercise ball have the same deadly effects?

~~~
mrinterweb
Other factors such as the sitter's balance and type and density of surrounding
floor hazards may be considerably more hazardous to the sitter's health.
Especially if floor hazards include: acid, alligators, lava, or landmines.

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orijing
This may be a stupid idea, but here's the trick I use to force myself to not
sit down for too long:

I drink a ton of water, and I mean a ton. I drink so much that I HAVE to get
up every hour (at least) to use the restroom. Usually that's closer to 45
minutes. I know drinking too much water isn't healthy either, but I think I am
at a nice balance of hydration.

Does anyone else do this?

~~~
oscardelben
you should drink when you're thirsty, not for the sake of it. Beware that what
you're doing can cause more harms than goods.

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paganel
> Sitting for several hours each day is bad for you, like smoking is bad for
> you, regardless of whether you do healthful activities, too.

I'm looking forward to the EU-directive that will ban chairs in bars and
restaurants, the same as they did with smoking.

~~~
ignifero
It's not like if you sit on the computer, you increase the chances of the
other people in the room to die of cancer.

~~~
jgmmo
Ignifero it's not because it hits the people around you -- it's because the
people around you pay for your care.

You don't grok socialized medicine. Smoking is illegal because it's a huge
expense on tax money! Smoking is expensive because it causes higher rates of
diseases. Make the behavior illegal and you move those funds to other
governmental activities.

Using a ladder is risky, make ladders illegal. Eating high fat foods is risky,
make junk food illegal.

~~~
corin_

      Smoking is illegal because it's a huge expense on tax money!
    

That just isn't correct... smoking _isn't_ illegal, just (depending on what
country you are in) smoking in certain public places.

I've no idea about other countries, but in the UK (and I don't have a source
to cite for this, and it's possible I'm incorrect, but as I was told by a GP -
a General Practitioner docter) the taxes paid on tobacco more than cover the
cost caused to our National Health Service by smokers.

Regardless, even assuming smoking does cost more than the taxes it raises,
that's not the reason for public bans - that is simply because your personal
health choices shouldn't be allowed to have negative impact on the health of
other people.

~~~
StavrosK
And yet, very few smokers in Greece seem to understand that. There are even
posters that read "Smoking is a choice!".

Apparently, going out to a place that doesn't reek of ash isn't.

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Tharkun
Any word on how different sitting positions affect these results? I imagine
that kneeling (or worse, in Tate-hiza, kneeling with one knee raised and a
foot up your arse) would use more muscles than just sitting on your bum all
day long?

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elb0w
So if I read the first few paragraphs correctly, Sitting in a chair all day
gives men an 80% chance not to get cancer. Sounds pretty sweet to me.

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michael_dorfman
Oddly enough, it hasn't seemed to effect the life expectancy of Buddhist
monks...

~~~
cpeterso
Perhaps non-sitting Buddhist monks live even longer than sitting Buddhists?

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JonnieCache
Being mildly hyperactive has many hidden benefits :)

~~~
dualogy
Yep. And caffeine is its ideal fuel ;)

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shanebooth
bummer... I can feel my golden years slipping away

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aj700
I'm always Devil's advocate. ("I say: lettem crash!")

My life expectancy without the sitting is about 80. So this is a good thing.
65 years is enough for me.

~~~
seles
This type of reasoning is bad: you don't die 15 years earlier, your life
deteriorates earlier, making the good years less.

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cantbecool
Did anyone else notice that the directors name for the call center is
'Gaylord'?

