
Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike - bajaj
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/business/dealbook/lyft-citibike-motivate-bike-share.html
======
eiopa
I'm based in SF, and I've taken over 200 rides with Ford GoBike (operated by
the same company).

It is awful.

The bikes: big, heavy and ugly. Due to their sheer weight, peddling up the
gentlest of hills will make you question your life choices, and consider
other, much faster options, like walking, or just gently slithering around the
pavement.

Additionally, Motivate's chosen method of bike cleaning - a dude hosing them
down - tends to leave the bikes drenched with ice cold water. I suppose the
feeling of freeze gnawing at your body does act as a replacement for caffeine
for some, but I find it very unwelcoming.

The stations: Sparse, not well maintained, and honestly, an eyesore. They're
this giant, lumbering object that takes away precious public resources, and is
only available for Motivate's usage. You also constantly have to plan around
them -- is there one next to where I want to go? Is it almost full?

E-Bike deployment: what a joke. They are rarely available, and even you've
spotted one of these precious unicorns, you'll often by greeted by a beaming
red dot, indicating that the bike is unwell, likely due to the battery giving
up in the middle of day.

Other than that, the app spams you with ads, many of which are strangely
enough for _buying_ an e-bike. I thought this company is about bike sharing??

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aventrix
How does the popularity of bikes compare to electric scooters? Anecdotally, I
see a lot more Bird and Lime S scooters flying around than I do bicycles these
days - and we do have docked bicycle and Lime bikes and Ofo options available
in my city.

Having tried many of these services, I find the electric scooters to be the
most enjoyable, although the electric bikes are quite fun too and can be a
better experience if you're carrying something which can be put in the basket.

~~~
stefan_
Here is what you mean when you say a scooter:

[https://www.limebike.com/hubfs/Assets/bike-s-2.jpg?t=1530481...](https://www.limebike.com/hubfs/Assets/bike-s-2.jpg?t=1530481285543)

Here is what much of the world thinks is a scooter:

[https://emmy-sharing.de/wp-
content/uploads/Schwalbe_45-links...](https://emmy-sharing.de/wp-
content/uploads/Schwalbe_45-links.jpg)

Just to clear that up. If it was between those two I'd take the latter given
that hitting a pothole on that Lime thing is liable to stop all forward
momentum suddenly and precariously. But really I'd want the electric bike.

Though I think the unstated single most important selling point for the Lime
scooter over the electric bike is that you don't need to deal with the
homicidal, low awareness, little education American driver and the abhorrent
infrastructure (and policies) that enable them.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _hitting a pothole on that Lime thing is liable to stop all forward momentum
> suddenly and precariously_

Didn't think of this. Makes sense why they're doing well on the West Coast but
not yet rolling out on New York's ice-torn streets.

~~~
ebikelaw
Oakland, California has some of the worst streets in America, and getting
worse. There are Limes and Birds on every corner of downtown.

~~~
electricslpnsld
I live near Downtown Oakland and have yet to see one of these Scooters on the
road -- so far the primary use case in Oakland seems to be teenagers blasting
around Lake Merritt on the weekends.

~~~
ebikelaw
There were 6 on each corner of Broadway & Grand at 7am today.

~~~
ebikelaw
According to the Lime app, there are at least 50 Lime-S scooters within 1km of
the corner of Broadway and Telegraph right now. There are 9 outside 12th St
BART alone.

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robotmay
We had a bike rental system launch in Cardiff very recently, run by NextBike.
It has been a massive success, and fills a pretty gaping hole in our city's
transportation. Cardiff is basically entirely flat, and has a few separate
parts (like Cardiff Bay) which are a not-inconsiderable walk away, as well as
a strangely awkward train journey. It's a city pretty well known for being
easy to walk everywhere, but the bikes have made it so much simpler.

I signed up as an early adopter because 2 of the first 5 stations they
installed essentially cut a 30 minute walk to the central train station into a
7 minute cycle. Cardiff was apparently NextBike's most successful UK city on
the May bank holiday weekend. The bikes are largely well maintained and nobody
seems to have vandalised them so far from what I've seen. Our cycle lanes are
designed by blithering imbeciles, but that's pretty standard for the UK.

The ones here have docks, though they're in sensible places. I have seen a
dockless system in Oxford and that also seemed to work well, mostly because of
the sheer number of bikes around.

I know why the schemes are successful in Europe, but I can understand why
people would be skeptical about their success in the US.

~~~
rocketpastsix
Your mix of past and present tense makes me wonder if the bike share is still
in Cardiff or not.

~~~
robotmay
I'm not sure where the problem is, where I'm using past tense it's for events
that happened in the past. The system can be current but have been launched in
the past.

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dpflan
Integration of services into one app would be a great experience. You could
more effectively plan your route which may include a step of getting onto a
bike or scooter before, between, or after a car(s). If that could be
integrated into a single "experience", and then you add subscription, users'
concept of movement around a city is now much smoother (fewer authorizing
clicks).

~~~
usaar333
Agreed. I'd personally rather see better integration being transit and bike
share. "Taxi" \+ bike isn't that common, but either pair well with public
transit.

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Spivak
Can someone explain the economics of services like this? I just get the
feeling that these bike-sharing services are running on a good sales pitch and
a market which seems obvious but isn't really there.

There are probably four or five competing services in my city and yet I have
never actually seen a single person actually riding them. There are certainly
people riding bikes but it's always their own bike.

Complications I See:

\- There's a pretty narrow window between a distance that's too far to walk
but impractical to hire a car. And since ride sharing is super cheap for this
use-case it's a tough market.

\- It's useless if people are unfit to drive: injury, tired, drunk, etc..

\- It's not great for going places with friends because it doesn't take a very
large group before someone isn't fit to bike. Also, for 6 people each taking a
bike is $24 for a 30 min ride. Any ride sharing company will be cheaper than
that, you don't have to work, and you'll get there much faster than 30 min.

\- Everyone except literally the current user of a dockless bike is going to
hate them so you're limited to where the company has docking stations. They're
going to be the fastest vandalized property.

\- Anyone who's actually into riding bikes will just buy one. If you're going
to be on them for an extended period of time you're going to want one that's
light, comfortable, well maintained, and correctly sized for you. I would
think these would be your loyal customers but it's exactly the opposite of
what they want.

\- Technically you're not guaranteed a bike back from wherever you go.
Although in practice you probably will since in all likelihood you're the only
user of this particular service.

\- Your biggest market would be commuters who want to save on paying for a
car/taxi/subway but people with regular destinations should reasonably just
buy a mid-tier bike.

~~~
torpidor
What you're missing is that bikes, and especially ebikes, are far more viable
for transport than most Americans think. In Copenhagen for example bikes are
actually the primary mode of transport, outnumbering cars on the roads. Bikes
are literally the fastest way to get around in many places.

There are a number of reasons it doesn't work well in the States, but broadly
it boils down to a) fitness levels, and b) cultural values, that is, spending
on car infrastructure helps American car manufacturers, American dealerships,
and American car owners, whereas diverting money to bike infrastructure
benefits liberal hippies or something.

ebikes directly address the fitness problem, and there are various technical
reasons why they have not been viable until now, mostly boiling down to an
improved Li-Ion supply chain. That said, a good ebike is still very expensive,
and the ridesharing model works here for the same reason that people spend $15
to take a Lyft downtown instead of buying a $25k sedan they own.

The infrastructure problem is harder, but perversely, these services may be
able to crack that one too. Uber/Lyft are quite famously adept at strongarming
local governments and just in general the political system is more responsive
to moneyed interests than hobbyists. Were bicycling to go from liberal hippie
pasttime to Real American Business™ that may resolve the political will to
improve the infrastructure. Now adding a bikelane is supporting American
innovation and jobs (somebody has to charge those bikes) rather than diverting
resources from them.

~~~
ams6110
Copenhagen in the summer is about 75° F and fairly low humidity. Ok for a
comfortable cycle to work. Many midwest American cities reach mid 90's temp
and high humidity. If you cycle to work you'll need a shower when you get
there, assuming you don't get heatstroke on the way.

Cycling is _not_ viable transportation in many areas, and you can't cherry
pick a place like Copenhagen and use that to support a claim that it works
everywhere.

Where I live, the weather is amenable to cycling maybe 4 months out of the
year, and it's far faster to drive than cycle in any case.

~~~
jsemrau
You could argue that in winter its getting below 40 in Copenhagen and in you
midwest American cities it might not?

~~~
analog31
I live in the Midwest US (specifically southern Wisconsin). Our temperature
generally ranges from maybe -10 to +90 F or roughly -20 to +30 C, with
occasional weeks that go beyond this range.

I commute to work by bike throughout the year. Admittedly, I avoid the worst
of the summer heat by adjusting my work hours so I leave for work before it
gets too hot. Also, I'm kind of a freak in the sense that I don't sweat a lot.

If you're curious about this, the weather history feature for Weather
Underground will produce nice graphs for most places worldwide.

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protonimitate
How easy/possible would it be to re-purpose the existing bike docks into
electric-scooter/ebike docks?

I have a sense with all the city/public push back against Lime bikes/ofo/bird
etc. the big players are looking to soak up turf in case the regulations
prevent dockless from expanding.

~~~
drb91
This only makes sense if there's essentially a dock on every block. I'm all
for this, but I don't see my friends who drive relishing the 5% reduction in
parking or whatever.

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dawhizkid
To be clear the SF docked bikes (soon owned by Lyft) has started introducing
e-bikes as well

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godzillabrennus
If they can offer these without the inconvenient docking stations it’ll be a
much more popular transportation option.

~~~
Tiktaalik
I don't agree.

With permanent, known stations, a dock system can be more easily integrated
into the existing public transportation network. This way the two systems can
work together, and make the transportation of the region more efficient in
general.

These bike share startups should honestly all be to some degree folded into
the public transportation network in general. It should be a mid to long term
goal for buses, bike share and metro to be able to use the same public
transport metro card.

We've already seen many examples of this of dockless systems being a nuisance
to businesses, local residents, and city governments. This is the sort of
public service that doesn't make a lot of sense to be handled privately IMO.

~~~
stevekemp
> This way the two systems can work together

That's the way it works in Helsinki. In the summer docks appear, stocked with
bicycles. If you look on the local transport-company website you can see a
realtime map of the trams, busses, and the number of bikes available at each
dock-site.

For example on the following map you can see the number of bikes available
near my house:

[https://www.reittiopas.fi/pysakit/HSL:1160404](https://www.reittiopas.fi/pysakit/HSL:1160404)

It costs €25/month to be a member, and then you can ride any bike in the city
for free for 30 minutes. After that you pay, or park your bike and take
another.

I've never used them, because I grew up cycling on the other side of the road
and I'm a little too nerveous to cycle here, but I suspect that fear will fade
in a few more years.

~~~
Symbiote
> the other side of the road

That seems rather limiting. Here in Copenhagen, I don't know any GB/AU/NZ/etc
people who can ride a bike but choose not to. I cycled from the airport to the
city centre on my first day here...

It perhaps helps that I'm from SE England, so about once a year my dad would
drive the car to (or through) France without a fuss.

Helsinki looks very green, I must plan a visit.

~~~
stevekemp
Helsinki is very green in the summer!

I'm exaggerating a little, but I know that the few times I've borrowed a bike
from a friend to ride along a cycle-path my instictive reaction is always to
turn the wrong way when going round corners/junctions/cross-roads.

Throw cars, trams, and buses into the mix? Well I think I'd have to be
concentrating more than usual which makes me a little less keen. No doubt I'll
relax over time.

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walterbell
Do bike-sharing services provide data to their host city? To any other
companies or partners?

~~~
samschooler
Here is all of Ford Go-bike's data. [https://s3.amazonaws.com/fordgobike-
data/index.html](https://s3.amazonaws.com/fordgobike-data/index.html)

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CodeSheikh
I thought CitiBike was owned by Citi bank.

~~~
dpiers
No, they are owned and operated by Motivate. Citi has, essentially, bought ad
placement - similar to putting your name on a sports arena.

~~~
8ytecoder
To add to that it's Ford GoBike in SF - same company's.

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shmerl
Hopefully they'll expand it to all areas in NYC.

~~~
deminature
Dockless bikes are getting rolled out to non-Citibike service areas:
[https://ny.curbed.com/2018/5/24/17389414/nyc-dockless-
bike-s...](https://ny.curbed.com/2018/5/24/17389414/nyc-dockless-bike-share-
pilot-program-announcement)

~~~
shmerl
Interesting, but 200 bikes sounds like a drop in the ocean. How will it
actually work without docking?

~~~
deminature
I think it’s just a trial to see if it’s chaos, and they’ll increase if not.
The dockless bikes I’m familiar with from SF require you to bolt the bike to
an unbranded city bike rack to end the trip. They also have the advantage of
pedal assist, so it’s not terribly taxing to ride long distances or up hills.

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elvirs
I wish they went after electric bikes or scooters. Not everyone feels like
spinning pedals in the heat or cold after long day at work.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
E-bikes are motor vehicles and can't be used on bike paths in NY state though
they are street legal if registered. NYC park police actively ticket E-bikes
on the west side.

~~~
aventrix
Do you know if the restrictions apply to the electronically assisted
"e-bikes". They pretty much operate like a normal bike, but require minimal
effort to go up hills.

Example: [https://www.limebike.com/electric-assist-
bike](https://www.limebike.com/electric-assist-bike)

~~~
NorthOf33rd
ebikes are pedal assist bikes. If there is no pedal assist, and the motor can
be activated with a throttle, then it's an e-motorcycle.

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cmjqol
This kind of news reminds how much I need to stop fullstack development , and
instead should create a random clone of a trending startups and sell it as
quickly as possible.

~~~
jaredsohn
Motivate was created in 2009.

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thelastidiot
Lyft is doomed. They just can't keep up internally with what Uber is pushing
into innovation. The boost Uber will get with their IPO will leave Lyft in the
dust. Everyone needs an Avis and a Burger King I guess.

~~~
vecter
Your username is quite apt.

~~~
jonthepirate
That's what everybody told me when I joined at a $800m valuation. Last I
checked, uber took a down round an Lyft is 15b.

