
I'm Just a Middle-Aged House Dad Addicted to Pot - rm2889
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/sunday/marijuana-addiction.html
======
twblalock
One of the upsides of legalization is that a lot of the false claims made
about marijuana are going to come under heavy scrutiny.

Some of this will be good for marijuana enthusiasts, but some will be bad.

I've lost count of the times I've been told by marijuana fans that marijuana
is not addictive, and that smoking it is not bad for your lungs. I expect both
of those myths to be refuted in the coming years.

In particular I expect to see studies demonstrate a link between marijuana
smoking and lung cancer, followed by years of denial by marijuana producers
and smokers, similar to what happened with cigarettes.

~~~
iliaznk
Of course it is addictive, otherwise people wouldn't come back to it after the
first try.

And as for harm to lungs – does anyone really think that combustion products
(regardless of what's burning) can not be harmful for human body?

~~~
tomjakubowski
> otherwise people wouldn't come back to it after the first try.

Just repeating an action a second time doesn't suggest an addiction... am I
missing something here?

~~~
mrlatinos
You're missing that there are plenty of people who want a scapegoat for their
lack of personal responsibility, and plenty of people who will enable them
because they're already biased against the scapegoat.

------
jimmies
I got introduced to pot when I entered grad school to do a STEM Ph.D. I was
cool with it - I was never an addict. I smoked a couple of times a year at
most. It had to be a quite special occasion for me to smoke marijuana, drink,
or do other drugs. Like the author, drugs gave me the courage to do things I
would regret later. I did things to hurt my very best girlfriend I could have
when I was high. She later left me.

Drugs are the demon that I thought I'm good enough to control -- I have a
fucking Ph.D. after all. I know the answer for myself now, that is doing
marijuana or any other drug is a losing battle. Most of the times when I am
sober, I can hide the asshole person I really am. But when I'm high, all hell
breaks loose.

~~~
collyw
Drugs are bad M'kay.

Come on, everyone is different and plenty of people (the majority?) can use
them responsibly. And drugs are vastly different as well so classifying them
as as such seems fairly counter productive to any discussion.

~~~
exogeny
That your response to his personal, non-generalized story is as such in very,
very curious and makes me wonder why you're having such a defensive posture.

------
fipple
I saw multiple of my most talented high school friends lose their spark to
pot. They’ve now made about 2 years of progress in 20 years’ time.

~~~
root_axis
Many of the best engineers I've worked with are daily pot smokers, including
my former boss who currently runs a team at Facebook.

~~~
shittyadmin
Yeah, I think the key word in the parents post is "high school"... studies
have shown people who start early have far more issues than functioning
adults.

~~~
simonsarris
To back this up:

[http://m.pnas.org/content/109/40/E2657.abstract](http://m.pnas.org/content/109/40/E2657.abstract)

Persistent cannabis users show neuropsychological decline from childhood to
midlife

------
torpilla
Addiction is highly correlated with depression and is a symptom of loosing
connection with something important in one's life. It is a from of escape form
this life because missing that connection is too painful.
[https://thelostconnections.com/](https://thelostconnections.com/) Here are
some of the connections we need so that we are not tempted by surrogates: \-
connection with others, our tribe, people we can confess with when needed, who
we can 'share ourselves' with \- connection with meaningful work \- a healthy
value system that is not overly materialistic \- being driven by inner
purposes rather than outer ones \- connection with our own subconscious fears
and desires \- having hope in the future - etc

------
x0
One of my coworkers just quit cannabis after having an addiction for several
years. Her and her (unemployed) husband were spending upwards of $300 a week
on it, more than 40% of her pay. Had never been able to save for a house or
anything, they had to buy in $50/$100 lots as they had so much trouble with
money.

Forced herself clean on a holiday (that her parents paid for) and she's doing
so well, it's great to see.

~~~
therein
I wonder how much they would have saved had they switched to vaping long ago.
You can get the same effects and avoid part of the lung damage while saving
some money by vaping instead.

------
Nursie
It is an addictive drug. Much less addictive than alcohol or tobacco, but
still addictive.

It's easy for folks like me to slip into using it every day. Never got as far
as the author in this, likely because I did always have a day job to hold
down, but I spent quite a bit of time baked every evening. I also don't feel
it was quite as wasteful of my life as the author does, nor did I embarrass
myself like that, but certainly you don't get a lot done whilst constantly
stoned.

It's never been too much effort to stop either, the cravings tend to pass very
quickly, but if there was any left in the house I'd quickly cave. I do wonder
what would happen were it to be legalised here. I'm very, very much in favour
of that because the legal situation around drugs in the UK is ridiculous,
counterproductive and just stupid. But if cannabis was available at every
outlet that currently carries alcohol, would I still be at it every day,
making excuses to myself for being tired and groggy in the morning, and in the
evening having "well just one more toke before bed"?

------
Gatsky
Addict is the wrong word. He quit cold turkey after a revelation form looking
in a car mirror. This is something a heroin addict or even most smokers would
never say. You could replace 'smoking pot' with any number of other bad habits
and not otherwise change a word of this story. Although I'm oversimplifying,
there are few revelations with true physiological addiction, which is a
despairingly tenacious neurological disease.

Some people should just stay away from psychoactive substances. Whatever the
benefits are, it isn't worth it for them. This is partly a function of what is
going on in their lives, but also partly neurobiological. Unfortunately there
is only one way to realise you fall into this category. Maybe one day we will
be able to predict who is at risk of abusing alcohol or marijuana well enough
that you can actually make an informed decision about usage patterns.

~~~
Nursie
He quit three weeks later. Lots of people will have similar stories about
tobacco.

Whether it's physiologically addictive or 'merely' psychologically addictive
is somewhat irrelevant - are you going to belittle gambling addiction as just
a "bad habit"?

~~~
Gatsky
Yes it's hard to generalise of course. But the (lack of) success of quit
smoking interventions should tell you that it is different to what is
described here.

I don't think it is irrelevant. The point is about how to help someone. Trying
to get someone with a physiological addiction to realise the error of their
ways is futile, like telling someone to unbreak their leg.

~~~
Nursie
> But the (lack of) success of quit smoking interventions should tell you that
> it is different to what is described here.

It might tell you that it is quantitively different, but not necessarily that
it's qualitatively different.

> Trying to get someone with a physiological addiction to realise the error of
> their ways is futile, like telling someone to unbreak their leg.

I think your understanding of addiction is probably lacking here. Many people
can and do overcome physiological addictions due to some or other realisation.
Conversely many people cannot overcome addictions without a physiological
component, like gambling, regardless of how much they realise the error of
their ways.

~~~
Gatsky
It isn’t necessarily black and white. Gambling has a physiological component.
Dopamine agonists can cause compulsive gambling in people that never cared to
gamble in their lives, due to purely biochemical alterations in reward
pathways. I don’t hope to define psychological addiction as you put it. The
distinction to me lies between physiological addictions and other compulsive
habitual behaviours. Examples of the latter include things which are clearly
not addictions, eg cracking your knuckles, checking you turned off the stove 5
times. Marijuana doesn’t have a big physiological component in general. As
always, some people quite happily perform behaviours habitually but are not
addicted (eg some smokers).

------
mrlatinos
Is a lack of self-control the same thing as addiction?

~~~
sosborn
Lack of self control is absolutely a symptom of addiction.

~~~
mrlatinos
So is this a symptom of addiction, or just lack of discipline? I smoke plenty,
but I know when and how to stop.

~~~
vishnugupta
This is a test I did on myself to check if I'm addicted to sugar, so please
take it in that context.

Reduce your intake by 50% for about a week. Do you see a craving developing in
you that's affecting your day to day life? Such as fatigue (both physical and
mental), lack of focus, interest etc.,? If the answer is yes then you are
_probably_ on the verge of getting addicted. I'm not a doctor but my guess is
that next stage is the lack of awareness or the ability to know when to stop
which is a clear sign of addiction.

~~~
omegant
I consider myself addicted to sugar, the good part is that only takes about 3
days of craving to be free of them. After that it's much much easier to keep
away from it.

------
screye
I am all for legalizing marijuana, but the extent to which it appears to be
infiltrating the this generations culture is a bit disturbing.

I have seen all too many people who seem to find an identity in pot. All
activities and games they play are centered around pot.

Much like alcohol, but it is even harder to participate if you are not one of
them. At least with alcohol, I can grab my cider, pretend to also be drinking
'hard liquor' and be a part of the event. Also, alcohol parties always need a
couple of sober people as nannys. (This is specific to college aged people)

With pot heads, even if I don't partake in smoking, I am going to come out
smelling of weed and inhaling 2nd hand smoke. At least pot heads have good
taste in music.

In conclusion, as legal restrictions to marijuana are lifted, now would be a
great time to put the role of marijuana in the societal context under
scrutiny. It isn't as bad as alcohol, but it isn't as innocuous as some would
like us to believe either.

------
hprotagonist
If you’re looking for like-minded people and a support group, /r/leaves and
/r/petioles are good subreddits to check out.

(for a variety of silly reasons all major subreddits that are cannabis related
are either botany or lotr puns)

------
gamedevs_cancer
I find video games,sugar,caffeine and sex to be a lot more addictive than pot,
and I've smoked pot almost daily in 4 years of university

------
anigbrowl
Actually, you're an asshole who likes pot and uses it as an excuse to behave
badly. My drug use history reads like War and Peace and I don't have any
aggressive or obnoxious episodes that I feel terrible about because I always
considered that no matter what strange thing I put in my body I was
responsible for for my own behavior, inebriated or not.

This person needs help, and the first thing they need to do is take
responsibility for who they are.

~~~
sdrothrock
> My drug use history reads like War and Peace

I'm curious about unpacking this since I actually read and enjoyed the book
when I was in high school.

Which of the following are you saying? These choices are obviously not
exclusive, but I'm curious about your original intent. :)

Your drug use history is:

1\. Long (I think this is the most popular way to use War and Peace)

2\. Boring (Probably the second most popular)

3\. Violent (This is probably ruled out since you said you don't have any
aggressive episodes [that you feel terrible about])

4\. Characterized by peaks and lulls in use

5\. Cryptic

6\. Other?

~~~
anigbrowl
1 & 4, perhaps 2 as well (although I find W&P an enjoyable read). I've never
gotten into a fight or anything similar under the influence of alcohol or
drugs.

------
pinzhed
People really love the word addiction. It’s like a safety blanket that keeps
you from having to feel responsible for your own behavior. There are sex
addicts, porn addicts, and food addicts, among others.

More than likely there is just an underlying mental health issue with poor
impulse control and behavioral manifestations.

------
paavoova
Marijuana is pure Soma. The people pushing, fighting for legalization are
digging their own grave in one form or another, especially as far as
sentiments of freedom are concerned - the government wins one way or another.

You cannot argue against sobriety without appealing to inherent weaknesses of
human nature. That alone speaks volumes in regards to the value of this drug.

~~~
the_reformation
Love what this argument is touching upon, few questions though:

1\. What is Soma?

2\. How does the government win either way?

~~~
paavoova
Soma is a fictional drug popularized in Huxley's Brave New World, and used to
ritually sedate the populace in seemingly benign but pervasive manner. It's
closely associated with with consumerism, in the of form of "feelies" (also
from BNW), as Huxley was alive to witness the transition from silent films to
"talkies", and didn't respond to the perceived gross spectacle. In my mind,
soma is a generalization for all that preys upon human weakness, and for
something that is justified, even by intelligent, renowned individuals, via
illogicality and appeal to human nature ("it's fun", etc). Rather than
consider the value of the intoxicant itself compared to the innate conscious
state, you typically see defense of it and claims of its banality and
harmlessness. This is cognitive dissonance and justification, nothing more.

The government wins by profiteering either way off of legalization or not.
Police states enforcing the war on drugs is profit, and tax revenue from
legalization is profit. The people celebrating the current trends as a win are
delusional.

