

Facebook Warns Debt Collectors About Using Its Service - hornokplease
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/10/11/facebook-warns-debt-collectors-about-using-its-service/66831/

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grellas
Ah, the poor debt collector, what a burden he carries these days.

When I started in my legal career over 30 years ago, debt collectors could
declare open season on their victims and pretty much harass them without
limit: calling up at all hours of the night, lying through their teeth about
what might happen if you did not accede to their demands, pestering friends,
relatives, employers, and anyone else in reach once they had exhausted their
arsenal on the hapless debtor, and when all that didn't work, cynically start
the process up again the next day until the poor soul was worn out from the
continuous beating.

All of this has radically changed in the past several decades, to the point
where debtors (and, dare I say, deadbeats too) now pretty much have the upper
hand with collectors when it comes to fending off their efforts to win through
harassment or intimidation. A fascinating write-up on this appears here
([http://www.dallasobserver.com/2010-01-21/news/better-off-
dea...](http://www.dallasobserver.com/2010-01-21/news/better-off-deadbeat-
craig-cunningham-has-a-simple-solution-for-getting-bill-collectors-off-his-
back-he-sues-them/)) and that piece in turn sparked an interesting HN
discussion on the topic (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1075903>).

Essentially, there are now innumerable laws that permit debtors to sue debt
collectors who slip up on even small issues in the way they handle their
collection efforts. What is more, the entire industry depends on hiring low-
skilled workers whose main talent is to intimidate and such persons are
normally not astute enough to avoid the legal traps. The hope is that most
people will remain ignorant of the laws protecting debtors while the
harassment continues.

Accordingly, this game turns on playing the percentages. I have dealt with
people at the wholesale end of this business and, believe me, the amounts they
pay to acquire debt packages are miniscule in relation to the size of the
debts involved (often as low as 1% of the face amount of the paper). Thus, it
is rare that any of this ever winds up being pursued in court (at least for
the low-quality packages) because that would never pay. The goal, rather, is
to scare people into paying. This means, of course, first finding the person
so that the process can begin. And this in turn places a _huge_ premium on
whatever data might exist by which a debtor might be tracked.

So, yes, the debt collectors will use all forms of social media available as
well as any accompanying tricks that might lead to finding their targets.
Facebook may adopt policies to try to limit some of this but I would doubt
that this would be effective except against flagrant offenders. Anti-
harassment laws likely would be more effective, assuming the debtor is savvy
enough to know about them and to use them effectively.

In the meantime, this cat-and-mouse game will continue on and on, as it has
for eons, only it will now involve the new playing ground of social media.

~~~
enjo
1%.. really? I was tertiarily involved in this at a college job and they where
paying 50 to buy debts. 1% is shockingly low really.

------
gte910h
Facebook needs to put something in their terms of service saying:

If you are using our service in any way to contact a client of yours who owes
you money, you agree to forgive the debt in the entirety.

~~~
mseebach
Either the wording will be too specific and not mean much, or it will be too
broad and harm the innocent.. in a BAD way. Say, a contractor writing to a
client "hey, I'm done now, could you wire me the last 50%?"...

~~~
CapitalistCartr
They've got no business using Facebook to conduct business in the first place.
Besides, their chat and message tools are terrible. If Facebook disallows it
in their TOS and it's widely known, then don't do it, especially for business.

~~~
andrewbadera
Businesses doing business on Facebook is exactly more of the kind of thing
Facebook wants, don't kid yourself. They won't pursue a lot of this stuff
directly themselves, but they're happy for anything that drives revenue
without pissing off users. See: Asana.

------
jbail
I don't see what's threatening or intimidating about "Have your friend Melanie
call me." Seems pretty innocuous to me.

Could you buy Facebook ads that target the person's friends? All the data you
need is there for the debt collector's taking. You wouldn't need to intimidate
anyone or say anything hateful. The ad could be as simple as, "Get $5 in
Facebook Credits. Have Your Friend Melanie Call Me." Not sure if that ad would
actually work, just thinking out loud.

From Facebook's perspective, you don't want people to stop creating accounts
(or quit using them) because of fear of debt collectors, but debt collectors
are a business that could provide them a revenue stream.

It's already a known fact that some employers check potential hires on
Facebook and I don't think that's had much of a chilling effect on the growth
of their social network.

~~~
YooLi
'I don't see what's threatening or intimidating about "Have your friend
Melanie call me." Seems pretty innocuous to me.'

It doesn't take too many of those 'innocuous' messages for someone to figure
out what they are. If your friends suddenly get 15 messages from strangers
asking them to have you call, it's pretty clear what it is.

I get calls from debt collectors all the time. The problem is it's not me they
are looking for; I just happen to have the same fairly unique name and live in
the same city. I know it's not me because it's for a credit card debt from
when I was 7. I really don't want my friends all getting messages from
strangers asking me to call them. Sure, the example cited in the article was
pleasant sounding, but I can guarantee you they will quickly degrade into
threatening/harassing messages if Facebook gives debt collectors the signal
that it's okay to use their service. I know because I deal with them on the
phone all the time yelling, calling me a liar, etc. when I try to explain it
isn't me they are looking for.

~~~
RK
I had a similar problem when I got a new number a few years ago. I would get
calls, usually very early in the morning asking for someone else. Even though
I would say they had the wrong number they would just continue to call back
day after day. The number was from a debt collection agency.

~~~
nkassis
I have this problem right now and it's pissing me off. I'm starting to wonder
if I can do anything against them. The guy doesn't even have the same name as
me. He hasn't had this number for years yet I still get calls.

~~~
lusis
Under the fair debt collection act, all you have to do is tell them to stop
calling you. Seriously. Just say something to the effect of "under the rights
granted by the fair debt collection act, I'm informing you that you are
calling the wrong number, I am not the person you're looking for and to please
never contact me again" if they do, you can sue them for up to 10k for
violating it. You have to do it with each distinct debt collector though.
Check clarkhoward.com for more information.

------
ahn
You'll get more sympathy if you use Facebook to track down deadbeat dads and
sex offenders who haven't registered.

~~~
ubernostrum
Or, on the internet, not really.

(family law systems and sex-offender registries are both fairly widely known
to be disgustingly broken)

~~~
ahn
I'll believe you when I see a warning from Facebook castigating investigators
for using their service for those purposes.

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callmeed
Do the repo men know about FB Places & foursquare yet? Seems like that would
make their job easy.

