
Northwestern Point of the Lake of the Woods - Thevet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_point_of_the_Lake_of_the_Woods
======
jatsign
Reminds of software development estimation. You start out with a rough
"ballpark" idea of the task and say it will take about 10 days.

Then you actually start the task and realize how screwed you are.

And then your manager thinks you're an idiot because you said 10 days and it's
150 years later and required a treaty with Canada to resolve.

~~~
Stratoscope
There is a great story on Quora related to this:

[https://www.quora.com/Why-are-software-development-task-
esti...](https://www.quora.com/Why-are-software-development-task-estimations-
regularly-off-by-a-factor-of-2-3/answer/Michael-Wolfe)

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matthewmcg
This is great. The treaty referred to the “northwestern most point” when
everyone thought the lake was more or less round but in practice there is no
single unambiguous resolution. When I return to work, I want to put a print of
the annotated 1912 survey map (showing all of the various compromises and
treaty amendments) on my office wall as a reminder that all contract language
is, at some level, an imprecise abstraction.

~~~
ta1234567890
> all contract language is, at some level, an imprecise abstraction

Great insight. And more generally, all language is an imprecise abstraction.

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aulneau_
Funny to see this on hn, I worked at a canoeing camp in Lake of the woods, and
as such have spent a good amount of time in the northwest angle. I've even
sung a rendition of proud Mary in the northern most bar of the contiguous US.

~~~
52-6F-62
Can't speak for those Muskeg-walking Manitobans, but we still like Creedence
here in Ontario

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acheron
Another consequence of incomplete geography and unclear surveying was the
Toledo War between Ohio and the Michigan Territory:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War)

In the end, the loser was Wisconsin: Ohio got Toledo and Michigan got the UP.

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acwan93
There's a number of irregularities between the US and Canadian border.

Johnny Harris, who used to (still is? seems unclear) film the Vox series
"Borders", did a video on it:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvvicd07zCs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvvicd07zCs)

Basically, the border is largely the 49th parallel and some seemingly
arbitrary lines on the East Coast and Alaska. But since they were done in the
18th/19th century without regard for existing settlements, it leads to some
crazy enclaves and border towns:

-Point Roberts, WA [1]

-Piney Pinecreek Border Airport (K48Y) [2]

-Hyder, AK [3]

-Estcourt Station, ME [4]

-Derby Line, VT [5]

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington)

[2]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piney_Pinecreek_Border_Airport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piney_Pinecreek_Border_Airport)

[3]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyder,_Alaska](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyder,_Alaska)

[4]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estcourt_Station,_Maine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estcourt_Station,_Maine)

[5]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_Line,_Vermont](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_Line,_Vermont)

~~~
paledot
I live in Montreal, which is 6 hours' drive due north of NYC. It is actually
farther south than Portland, OR. In fact, by far the majority of Canada's
population is south of the 49th parallel. The border is weird to the east.

~~~
acwan93
There's also Detroit, MI and Windsor, ON, which is the only land border
crossing where you go south into Canada and north into the US.

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sandworm101
There is a great youtube video on this and similar can-US border
irregularities. Search for "Canada-US no touching zone". There is another
exclave near vancouver.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMkYlIA7mgw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMkYlIA7mgw)

~~~
TimSchumann
Peace Arch Park is the place you mentioned on the border crossing between
Bellingham, WA and Vancouver, BC.

A good friend and his wife, who is Canadian, are really grateful for that
loophole. They were able to meet their newborn niece recently because of that
park, despite the border being closed.

~~~
dan_quixote
sandworm101 was referring to Point Roberts about 10 miles west of Peace Arch
Park:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington)

~~~
TimSchumann
Actually re-watched the video and realized that not ten minutes ago.

It is nice that places like Peace Arch Park exist though.

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sdoering
Thanks for sharing. Through "link-hopping", researching one of the named
figures I stumbled upon quite some interesting theories and learned quite a
lot today.

So this gem of trivia provided quite a great procrastination.

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bloat
_Baarle-Nassau - The town is the site of a complicated borderline between
Belgium and Netherlands, with numerous small exclaves of Belgium, of which
some contain counter-exclaves of the Netherlands._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-
Nassau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau)

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Wolfenstein98k
As someone whose line of work is land titles and surveying, this is
particularly interesting! Good find.

~~~
mauvehaus
Would love an AMA from you. Property law is surely some of the oldest law, and
how we define and understand boundaries and ownership must come with so may
interesting dives into old laws, deeds, titles, etc.

~~~
Wolfenstein98k
I'd be happy to, except that I'm Australian... I might not have relevant
enough insight for most HN'ers!

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cwmma
see the wedge [1] for a similar situation inside the US.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_(border)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_\(border\))

