
Ask HN: What is the best process to learn a new language? - patrickbolle
I&#x27;m looking to learn Spanish. I live in Costa Rica right now so that helps a lot, but there are so many different language learning apps + websites + guides + books etc. I am learning a decent amount but I am struggling to keep up with the speed of locals talking.<p>I watch a decent amount of Netflix shows in Spanish, but most speak super quickly as well.<p>I&#x27;m in between using Memrise (free) or Lingvist (paid... quite pricey for an app too) right now.
======
btkramer9
After trying a few different approaches I've found an optimal method that
works really well for myself.

1) Memrise (paid). This gives you a solid vocabulary and a decent intuition on
grammer/sentence structure.

2) Pimsleur (torrented, one 30min lesson every day). This is crucial to
actually put all your knowledge from Memrise to use and make it instinctual.
This also helps develop a very natural accent.

I did this for 45 days (~2 hours a day) before going to visit family in Italy
with zero prior knowledge. My italian wasn't pretty but I could hold a wide
range of conversations

I've been doing this for about 4 months for Spanish with just as much success.
YMMV.

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monster_group
I am learning Sanskrit which is much harder to learn than Spanish because
getting exposure to Sanskrit in every day life is significantly more
difficult. Here's what I do on a daily basis.

1\. Watch Sanskrit news and shows on Youtube. 2\. Read Sanskrit magazine and
newspaper. 3\. Write a blog in Sanskrit. 4 Always have a Sanskrit contemporary
fiction book that I am reading. 5\. Speak to other Sanskrit speakers whatever
broken Sanskrit I can speak (I have joined a group). 6\. Teach Sanskrit to
others using Google Hangouts / conference call etc. 7\. Practice writing
Sanskrit on a whiteboard that I bought. 8\. Refer to grammar books whenever I
am in doubt about the correct grammar usage. 9\. Constantly look up new words
that I don't know the Sanskrit counterparts to (both online and in a physical
dictionary). 10\. Actively recall verb / noun forms whenever I have free time
or I am waiting on something. 11\. Take a Sanskrit book with me to work and go
to break room and spend 15 minutes reading during lunch / break time. 12\. I
have three different Sanskrit apps on my phone that I occasionally refer to
when in doubt about some concept.

Doing all the above things daily has significantly improved my Sanskrit
language skills. My recommendation is you follow similar technique. The key
thing is to do it every single day and not feel bad about making mistakes.

~~~
deathtrader666
What motivated you to learn Sanskrit?

~~~
monster_group
1\. I think it is very cool to know a 2000 year language, read ancient texts
in the original and interpret them on your own rather than relying on other
people's interpretation which often have religious and cultural biases.

2\. It is beautiful because it has very precise rules. You can construct new
words for things that didn't exist before (like computer) without violating
the rules of the language.

3\. You can say things very concisely in Sanskrit.

~~~
kra3
What did you come up with for "computer" ?

~~~
monster_group
I did not come up with it, others did. सङ्गणक (saṅgaṇaka - IAST
transliteration). It is composed of three parts - a prefix, root verb and a
suffix -

सम् + गण् + ण्वुल् = सङ्गणक

sam + gaṇ + ṇvul = saṅgaṇaka

The prefix imparts the meaning of doing well. The verb means to calculate. The
suffix converts the verb into a noun that performs that action. It literally
means an entity that is adept at calculating.

------
badwolff
In my experience, the more exposure you get and the more variety you have -
the easier it becomes to learn.

1) Use apps (Duolingo is my preference)

2) Read grammar books to learn and understand the underlying structures.

3) Read children's books when you have a big enough vocabulary from (1) and
then advance to older books as you expand your experience.

4) Listen to media (Netflix, audio books, tv, radio etc). there should be a
lot around you in Costa Rica.

5) Practice - use it as must as you can in every day interactions with actual
speakers. If speaking with people in person is scary at first there are a
number of services online you can find to match you up with a tutor/practice
partner.

~~~
stevekemp
Related to reading children's books - It can be pretty rewarding and
educational to actually speak to children.

I moved to Finland two years ago, and I've found my level of language is good
enough to communicate with 3-4 year olds. After that they know more words than
I do, but still we usually make ourselves understood.

The best thing I've found for my learning is time though, I'm definitely
better at hearing the difference between "o" and "ö" now I've lived here for a
long time, and heard them spoken. Listening to Finnish (metal!) radio has also
helped me out even though most of the vocabulary is unknown to me, just having
people speak at "full speed" and hearing it is useful.

Immersion, I guess, is the key.

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misiti3780
I posted this a few months back, I had a lot of success learning Italian using
the fluent forever method (with ANKI) and am now learning french to use the
same method.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15508440](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15508440)

------
shishy
Watching children's TV shows in that language helped me :) They're usually
educational (though you don't always notice it as a child). Just a suggestion
on top of what other commenters have said; it's a nice way to supplement what
you know or at least get started.

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dchuk
I've been researching this a lot lately as I have a strong interest in
learning Spanish, and came across this method:
[http://www.jonkenpo.net/method-listening-
reading/](http://www.jonkenpo.net/method-listening-reading/)

Basically you read a book in the language you want to learn, that also has
your native language next to it (parallel texts) while _also_ listening to the
audiobook in the target language.

The original thread it was documented in from an old forum looks to be written
by a fairly...eclectic person but overall it seems like a powerful way to
learn through mass exposure.

There's a site I found called diveintoespanol.com that enables this method,
going to give it a shot this weekend.

~~~
patrickbolle
really neat concept. cheers!

------
zumu
If you use subtitles, make sure they are also in Spanish. Also as petecox
points out, Spanish varies wildly from country to country, so TV may not be
the best, but I wouldn't avoid it entirely -- it's also a good source of
cultural knowledge.

I'm personally very distrustful of language learning apps. Some may be better
than others, but reading / translation based systems should come after you
have a pretty solid conversational fluency.

What you really want is immersion. You need to form relationships in the
target language. I'd look for immersion classes or just general meetups in
hobbies of your choice. For example, Friday night magic :)

When in doubt listen to as much Spanish as possible.

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petecox
For the duration of your stay I'd actually recommend throwing away your
netflix subscription! Each country's culture, accent and slang will vary so if
you're in Costa Rica watching content from perhaps Spain, Mexico or Argentina
each night it might be a tad confusing. e.g. From my experience, a Mexican
gangster movie where they call each other "Pendejo" is little help on the
streets of Bilbao or Jujuy!

I'd recommend conversational classes. Depending on how much free time you
have, a small group of learners, 8 weeks, 90 mins, 3 times a week. I don't
know what your financial situation is like but it may be the best several
hundred dollars you ever spent - think of it as an investment. It's a
commitment to seriously learn a language (because you're paying for it!) in a
supporting environment that reinforces what you'll hear in real life.

Develop a daily routine in your local community. Visit the same coffee shop
for breakfast and read half a chapter each day of your 'fluency in 25
lessons'. After a few tongue-tied attempts at conversation they'll naturally
revert to practicing _their_ English. Explain to a sympathetic ear that you're
really keen to speak the language - perhaps only 1 of 4 employees in a café
may persevere but that's okay - you then have 3 English speaking friends and
one person you only talk in Spanish with. And it's a cliché but be kind to the
monolingual elderly lady in your building - she may have a granddaughter
she'll fix you up with!

As nerds we may think technology will solve everything but learning apps will
only supplement human interaction, so get out there! :) You're in a Spanish
speaking country, which is a great start.

------
wkrause
For training your ear, I'd recommend finding Colombian shows, which tend to
speak slower and are usually easier for new learners to engage with. The
boundaries between words are not as clear as we perceive them to be in our
native language, and speech segmentation is actually a fascinating process.
Training your ear comes down to practice and having a large enough vocabulary
for your brain to start the segmentation process. Someone recommended Michel
Thomas's courses, and I'd highly recommend you check those courses out as
well.

Formalized lessons through something like iTalki might be a good investment
too if you can't find a good language partner.

Apps can be a good tool and people tend to be fairly happy with Duolingo and
Memrise. If you feel like you're getting to the point where you can get
through reading the news and some basic books, I'd recommend giving an app I
just released a look, which is called Langliter. In my biased opinion it's one
of the best way to build your vocabulary and break past the intermediate
plateau a lot of people get stuck at.

------
DoreenMichele
_I am learning a decent amount but I am struggling to keep up with the speed
of locals talking._

You need to develop an ear for it. I have heard that listening to tapes while
you sleep can help.

You are also probably being slowed down by translating to English as you
listen. You need to learn to understand it without translating it.

One way to work towards that is to transliterate. This is a word for word
translation that does not reorder words to create correct (English) grammar.

When I took Greek, we studied the Bible and everyone had an interlinear Bible
that had one line of Greek and the English translation of each word below it.

Transliteration can help you get more comfortable with the grammar of the new
language and can speed up your mental translation until you are more fluent
and can understand the words as meaningful in their own right without
translation.

------
Broken_Hippo
There is no one best way.

I needed the structure of class. I live in Norway, and folks are quick to
speak English with me until I got firmly into an intermediate level... and it
still happens. Oh well :)

But even without classes, I suggest getting a few language learning books
designed for adults learning Spanish as a second language. Work through the
workbooks. Many come with web support as well. The ones I used covered basic
everyday situations, helped with sounds, and covered grammer slowly.

Around here, there are language cafes that help folks get speaking practice.

Childrens shows helped me, as the speech is simple and clear. The TV station
has transcripts as well - I found this very helpful. Watch once, view
transcript and translate, and watch again. Listen to television/radio as much
as possible. Play this stuff as background sound when you are working on
things. The exposure trains your ear.

Speak when you can, even if you are repeating after the children's shows you
are watching. Try to speak every time you go to the store, for example.

Read. Children's books at first, perhaps. Harry Potter is also a good: You are
probably familiar with the story and it repeats words quite often. Move to
novels once you tire of children's books but before you feel you are "ready"
for them. They'll be hard at first, but at least you can pick things up you
are interested in. Newspapers are handy as they introduce information that you
might not be interested in. You might be able to find news for children online
or something like that as well. Or one that is easy to read (I found that in
Norwegian). Write down words you don't know - and their translations - even if
you never look at the list again.

Write, especially if you have a local that can read it and correct things for
you. Rewrite with corrections. Copy newspaper articles. I suggest writing by
hand instead of typing at first, but eventually you'll want to type as well.
When typing, make sure you have a spell check on your computer that can spell
check spanish.

Apps are helpful for building vocabulary.

After you get a good vocabulary base, make sure you start studying idioms.
These color the language.

Google translate isn't always spot-on, but still very helpful. You might have
to type more than one word to get a proper translation - it is like this in
Norwegian because some words might mean one thing yet when combined mean
something completely different.

------
russelluresti
So, I would preface any advice with being clear on what your goals are and
what you mean exactly by "learn Spanish." Do you mean get by conversationally?
Are you looking for fluency certification? Do you want to attend a Spanish-
speaking university or work in a Spanish-speaking office? Do you need to read
and write Spanish, or just speak it? All of these things will have different
needs, different vocabulary, and different methods.

My advice here is mainly for learning conversational Spanish.

Work one-on-one with a language tutor. For vocabulary practice, use a spaced-
repetition system like Fluent Forever (I think Memrise has the same system).

But the biggest thing you can do to learn - speak the language. That's the
most important part.

------
aiilnns
Everyone here has some great suggestions but as far as I can see no one has
mentioned the Michel Thomas courses. I have found his way of teaching quite
smart especially if you speak English. I mostly listened to his course and
practiced a bit with Duolingo(didn't find it that helpful but it was ok)
before going to Spain, and I have to say Michel helped me a lot in recognising
structures and phrases. If you combine it with learning some vocabulary it'd
be really good.

But as most seem to say and I have to agree, the best thing to do is find
people and speak the language as much as possible (native speakers, tutors,
other learners).

~~~
wkrause
I second the Michel Thomas recommendation. What it gives you is a good ear for
more complicated grammatical structures. There's no getting around putting in
the work to build your vocabulary, but it really helps bridge the gap between
the grammar rules you read in a book and recognizing and using them in
conversation.

------
Jtsummers
Anki, Memrise or Duolingo, Pimsleur audiobooks, and Rosetta Stone along with
having someone to interact with (which you have). I've been slacking but for
Spanish I speak with my girlfriend (Argentinian, but speaks English fluently
so sometimes I have to force her to use Spanish as she finds my Spanish
frustrating) and coworkers. Trying to incorporate new words or linguistic
concepts (tenses, idioms) into the conversation each week.

I picked up a frequency dictionary for Spanish and entered in the words from
that into my Anki deck. I also got a college level Spanish 101/102 textbook to
work through to reinforce the grammar. I find the grammar rules themselves
stick well with the way my mind works (probably why I took to math and CS in
the first place), though vocabulary requires the deliberate practice. So the
textbook gives me the framework (grammar) to fit the vocab onto and I can
focus on the vocabulary by itself having already (more or less) learned the
grammar and syntax.

Others are saying avoid Rosetta Stone. I don't know, it was a gift to me from
my parents. I have found it useful because it's so much already created verbal
content so my listening (though not speaking) improved greatly by using it.

Memrise and Duolingo: I find these easy to use for a few minutes a day. I
couldn't get anywhere near fluency doing just that, but it is good practice.
Really nice for use on the go. I'll use it for however long I have between
when I get to the gym (between 5:30 and 6) and my class starts (6). And a few
other times throughout the day. I don't feel like I'm interrupting a lesson
when I stop with it, it's just taking a break until I'm free again.

Anki is something I run through entirely in one go. I couldn't stick with it
when I used it multiple times a day for fractions of the deck. I usually use
it first thing in the morning.

Pimsleur also improved my listening and my speaking skills. I don't pirate it,
I already subscribed to Audible and each month I get a credit which covers the
cost of a week of lessons. Audible seems to have frequent 2-for-1 deals (use 1
credit for 2 books) so I've only paid for maybe half of them, if I count the
subscription as part of my cost.

------
buliam
What I did when I lived in Spain was watch a lot of movies in Spanish with
English subtitles. This helped me immensely with my listening comprehension.
Without subtitles, it was much more difficult to decipher words.

Also, if you're there for some sort of exchange, try to live with locals if
possible and make it a point to speak in Spanish with your fellow exchange
students/people, even if it seems awkward at first and would seem easier to
just speak in English.

Other than that, there's no substitute for practice and exposure. Talk and
actively listen as much as you can.

------
uxux
My experience: there's a quandary if you avoid face-to-face conversation
because your listening comprehension skills aren't very good, because you need
conversation and interaction to improve them. In conversation you can read
body language and ask for clarity/to slow down/explain things differently. The
pressure, heat of the moment etc forces you to really pay attention. It's easy
to fall in to a passive listening trap watching movies, listening to songs,
etc.

------
ljsocal
Anki flash cards used as described in this article
[https://qz.com/1211561/how-to-learn-a-language-use-spaced-
re...](https://qz.com/1211561/how-to-learn-a-language-use-spaced-repetition/)

Im learning Macedonian in Macedonia s-l-o-w-l-y and have just arrived at this
approach.

For motivation, keep in mind how much more you’ll get out of the conversations
you hear and overhear!

------
raarts
Find a family that natively speaks the language and live with them for a year.
Especially a great idea if you're young.

------
cleetus
Big fan of the app clozemaster. Duolingo was great to begin with, but now
seems so slow and has ads after every lesson. Clozemaster has a lot more
variety in terms of vocab.

And it offers lots of different languages:

[https://www.clozemaster.com/languages](https://www.clozemaster.com/languages)

------
rdlecler1
I combined Pimsleurs, a one year coursebook, spaced reptition and 12 hours of
training a day for 3 weeks to learn Mandarin. My listening skills were weak
but reading and writing were strong. Got up to about 800 characters and 1300
words. This was enough to get around comfortably in China and add to my
vocabulary.

------
atticusberg
For romance languages that don't have declension:

0) Figure out how to read/pronounce words in that language

1) Learn important irregular verb conjugations in present tense (to have, to
be, etc.)

2) Learn how to conjugate the different forms of present tense verbs

3) Look up list of most commonly used verbs + nouns. Memorize those.

4) Layer in conjugations for new tenses

5) Practice with native speakers

------
tomdre
My steps for learning French and Spanish were: 1) 1/2 months nonstop on
Duolingo 2) Cartoons/books for kids 3) Spending free time with French/Spanish
speakers (gotta mention that I was lucky because my native language is romance
and I lived in both France and Equador)

------
dominotw
My wife is mexican and I am telugu. We can speak a bit of both now by forcing
each other to converse it in it couple of days a week. Spanish Sunday, Telugu
Tuesday :D.

I would find some local and pay them a little money to hang around and talk to
you and correct you.

------
sotojuan
Get exposure to content not made for learners or beginners (native content)
ASAP.

------
Rotdhizon
There is no one best way. Just get out there and start absorbing information.
There is no one magical book, website, or resource that will make you fluent.
I would avoid Rosetta Stone though(personal bias).

------
dazc
I found Duolingo OK for revising vocabulary but not much use for anything
else.

If possible, play back audio at a reduced percentage. I find 90% makes
everything a lot more comprehensible.

And, of course, constant practice & revision.

------
xparadigm
If you have a movie or TV series which you watched so many times that you
remember most of it, then try watching it dubbed in Spanish.

------
subpixel
Along with other suggestions I recommend the free Language Transfer podcast.
It’s a quite good starting point for new languages.

------
pasbesoin
Years ago, I had a French class that used "French in Action". Video lessons
were a pretty new thing, then, and it had 52 half hour videos that included a
running story that kept the viewer engaged. I found that worked very well for
me. I was supposed to learn one college year's worth, over about 7 weeks.
Instead, they had to place me into third year French when I was done with that
course. (Which, to her discredit, rather pissed off the department head -- I'd
taken the French in Action class elsewhere.)

"Destinos" is a similar program that came out for Spanish, a couple of years
later. Actually, due to some recent events, I'm using it right now -- this
time without a class/instructors -- and I'm finding it likewise useful and
effective. Its story also spans the globe from Spain to Argentina to Puerto
Rico and finally Mexico, so the viewer gets some exposure to a variety of
accents/dialects.

[http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html](http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html)

The videos are free to stream, at least in the U.S. If you have any trouble,
shoot me an email with "HN" included in the subject line, and I can provide
you a bit more direction including possible alternatives.

Through used sales on Amazon, I picked up the textbook and workbooks in quite
good condition for about $10 - $15 each. Note that there is one "edition" of
the videos but two editions of the text and workbooks. There is also an
"alternative" version of the text and/or workbooks. "Alternative" means its
content is varied and directed more towards group activities suitable for a
classroom or other group learning experience. (So I gather from my own
research into what to buy.)

P.S. Also, keep watching the shows and such. A lot of language learning
happens before the words; the sound of the language. That includes different
languages emphasizing different frequencies of sound; your brain needs to
learn to pay more attention to those frequencies and not disregard them as
part of its filtering and processing.

Also, find some Spanish language/lyric music you enjoy listening to. I did
that with German and French.

In addition to getting your ear used to the language's sounds and rhythm and
all, it's fun when you suddenly grasp a new part of the lyrics. And it starts
to plug you into the culture surrounding the language.

I don't have much of a playlist for Spanish, yet, but I hooked onto Bomba
Estereo a few years ago when a world music show in my area played one of their
songs that captivated me.

You can find their stuff on YouTube. I heard "Pure Love", and thereby found
their album "Elegancia Tropical". Etc. Might not be your speed. But you'll
find things you like.

Good luck, and enjoy!

P.P.S. Both these classes were made in significant part with grant money by
foundations and had significant aspects of "public good" in their generation.

They are part of what convinces me to continue to advocate for "public
education", including at the post-secondary level.

~~~
patrickbolle
Wonderful! Appreciate the resources and will for sure check out the music :)
thanks!

