
Show HN: Sales for Founders - louisswiss
https://salesforfounders.com
======
mastermojo
Definitely a skill founders (CEOs) should optimize for. Reminds me of another
free resource [https://www.foundingsales.com/](https://www.foundingsales.com/)

~~~
sqs
Yes, +1 for Founding Sales. It’s super useful and comprehensive. Pete Kazanjy
(the author) is a great guy and is very knowledgeable and helpful.

(I am the CEO of Sourcegraph, an enterprise software company, and Pete’s
advice has been directly helpful to us.)

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nadam
"... you can't find your first customers"

I think the biggest problem for most of us is not being exposed to actual
burning problems which can be solved with a small budget, and not solved
already by dozens of other startups or even free software. Even though I am a
quite shy person, and need to learn a lot about sales, my biggest problem is
not that I cannot do sales if I really have to, but that i donát have good
business ideas which are within reach. (I am a developer.)

~~~
jmstfv
> and not solved already by dozens of other startups or even free software

That used to deter me as well. My line of thinking was: if the problem X is
already solved by N companies, why should I launch yet another competitor? Now
that I'm wiser, my answer is "because people are familiar with the problem,
are already paying for the solution, which means _there 's a market for
that_". I can't stress the last point enough. The market that you choose to
serve will determine most of your growth (some markets are harder to get into
than others, though).

In essence, you swap an _idea validation challenge_ with a _sales and
marketing challenge_. If all you're looking for is building a small,
independent, and sustainable business, I believe this is the most optimal
approach to take.

For the context: I run a B2B SaaS in a competitive market.

~~~
rabbitsfoot8
I completely agree with this. Just because an idea already exist doesn't mean
you shouldn't build a product for it. But you should try and build it in some
better way. A lot of products exist but aren't very good or have not been
"modernised". It's then A LOT easier to get that product off the ground
because of the hardest things is idea validation.

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spectramax
Slightly tangential: Does anyone get fed up by sales people? Especially
aggresive and pushy sales reps? When a car dealership a fun thing to go to?

As a consumer, sales people bother me to no end. I was in Delhi last year,
went to buy a silk saree and people were going around left and right trying to
sell this and that. I prefer going to a store in Paris and skip this noise.

IMO - I could be completely and utterly wrong/naive in terms of the actual
effectiveness of hiring sales people, but personally & emotionally want to
rally the world to end the traditional sales model. Sell to me in the right
context and without intervention and attention seeking. Sales representatives
are pop-up ads for the real world - I want an adblock and block all these
people.

So, we wanted to buy Solidworks CAD license for our company. I go on their
website: [https://www.solidworks.com/how-to-
buy](https://www.solidworks.com/how-to-buy) -> I fill out the stupid form,
then some asshole calls my cell, tells me to schedule a meeting to "understand
my needs", we setup a meeting in person at our company. Got a conference room
booked and he starts his dog and pony show. I wish I can get rid of him. He
was probably a nice person but the situation is getting in my way of the goal
- As a consumer, I am _willing_ to pay for this software but I can't without
these hurdles. That makes it painful. We decided to go with Autodesk's
Inventor license because it does everything we want it to do - and their
prices are transparent. No need to call any one. Just click, buy and we're
done in about 10 mins:
[https://www.autodesk.com/products/inventor/overview](https://www.autodesk.com/products/inventor/overview)

Fuck sales, I am sorry but that's how I feel. Sell your products in a "pull"
model than "push" model. Don't piss off your customers. Ofcourse, I am
ignoring the other side - what would I do if I were running a business. Not
sure, and not the consumer's problem.

~~~
whoisjuan
I use to think like that because I was always thinking about software the same
way as I think about buying things as a consumer. Basically thinking about
products the way I buy them from Amazon. Or buying a car as you mentioned.

But the reality of software sales is different. There are people at companies
that get paid to hear software vendors pitch their solutions. Those are
decision-makers who need to execute a budget and improve processes. They are
dependent on finding the right vendors.

It's way different when you think about that way. If you're a decision-maker
and have the power to buy software (and it's part of your job) you want to
hear from salespeople. It's part of your duties.

If you have a problem in your organization and someone comes offering software
that somehow solves it and you have the budget to buy this kind of software it
would be irresponsible of you to not hear what they have to offer.

~~~
spectramax
Sure when stakes are high, the sales people are of different caliber. It
becomes a big team that's trying to find the best solution for the company -
there are written project proposals, reviews and decision meetings. They don't
use sleezy techniques and unruly ways to "get them". Or aggressively piss
people off.

But that's not what this website appears to targetting:
[https://salesforfounders.com/](https://salesforfounders.com/)

My perception is that 90% of the sales people I meet are unpleasant just like
90% of the ads I see are bad. Then you come across a cool Hermes advertisment
that you want to sit through because its beautiful.

~~~
louisswiss
> They don't use sleezy techniques and unruly ways to "get them". Or
> aggressively piss people off.

That's definitely __NOT __what S4F is about.

One of the main reasons I made this course is that most founders - especially
technical founders - still have this impression of sales as being sleazy or
aggressive.

I'm sure that is still out there today - in the used car industry, for
example.

But - in SaaS at least - sales has moved on.

Why?

Because it had to.

Simply put, when you are selling a SaaS product (with free trials, money-back
guarantees, monthly billing...) _it isn 't worth making the sale_ if it's a
bad fit.

Lying, pressuring people into buying something they don't need, being
aggressive just doesn't pay anymore. Yes - they might sign up for one month -
but then they'll churn and you'll have spent more acquiring them than they
paid you.

Instead, S4F teaches you how to move to a 'team' mindset...

\- how to understand your customer \- how to align your goals with theirs \-
how to create a shared success plan (so they don't just buy, they actually get
value from your product and don't churn) \- how to nudge them along that path
to success

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gameofcode
I have just got the MVP ready for my 'analytics in a specific niche' SaaS
product - I'd love to just pay someone cash to sell it for me and help me get
from zero to one. I'd happily give recurring referral commission on top of
cash. I can then work on refining the product with the first few customers.

What are my options? This looks promising but sadly I seem to fall under one
of the "This course isn't a good fit for you, if..." points (last one). If
anyone could direct me to other options I would be very grateful!

~~~
louisswiss
> I'd love to just pay someone cash to sell it for me and help me get from
> zero to one.

I've seen quite a few founders try this, and it normally ends badly.

There are two main drawbacks...

1\. The salesperson effectively becomes the CEO. They understand the customers
better, have the relationships, and may not get all of this across to you -
especially in the event they leave suddenly.

2\. If you hire a salesperson without knowing how to sell your product (and
some results already), you'll never know if it's your salesperson or your
product that is underperforming. And you'll have no idea how to fix it.

I don't know what the best solution for you is, but consider looking into the
Mom Test book to help you learn how to get from zero to one by talking to
customers. It's a great book, and required (included) reading as part of my
S4F course.

Good luck!

~~~
gameofcode
Sometimes the advice you don't want to hear is the best advice, so thank you
for giving me hard truths!

I'll check out the book for sure. Good luck with the course.

------
yread
It seems that so many of these resources focus on getting from "hello" to
"yes". But I'm having major difficulties getting from a "yes" to paid
invoices.

Anybody has good resources that would help with getting through legal, it,
procurement, privacy reviews? How to help my customers get that new budget
approved? How to efficiently find out what is the next problem that needs to
be solved?

~~~
louisswiss
This is a really common problem!

The easiest way to overcome it is to reframe the problem.

Instead of asking "how do I go from yes to paid invoices", ask yourself "how
do I change the default outcome from _they don 't buy my product_ to _they buy
my product_ ".

This involves setting up a shared success plan with the customer.

Mark Fershteyn talks about how to do this in depth on a podcast episode we
recorded last year: [https://anchor.fm/sales-for-founders/episodes/How-to-
close-y...](https://anchor.fm/sales-for-founders/episodes/How-to-close-your-
first-deals-and-do-follow-ups-properly---with-Mark-Fershteyn-of-Recapped-
io-e3rf8a)

~~~
yread
Thanks, this is interesting (although Mark was pushing his startup a bit too
hard), making a plan for them sounds like a good idea, I'm actually already
doing that, I'll start calling it shared success plan.

My problem is that my customers don't know themselves what the process for
buying is (oh yeah it's probably over our budget so we have to talk to someone
from procurement... last time we talked to Joe but that was 3 years ago and he
doesn't work here anymore, I'll have to check with the procurement head). They
just don't buy SaaS very often. So, I have to tell them you'll probably need
this review and that agreement.

------
gentleman11
How would you modify these techniques to reach out to the press instead of
selling B2B? I actually considered buying this course a week or two ago but I
was not sure if i could apply it to non B2B scenarios

~~~
louisswiss
I focus less on techniques and more on strategy and mindset.

There are thousands of 'successful' cold email templates and guides out there
for free, for example. You don't need another one.

But they probably won't work _for you_ \- any more than downloading the Uber
app onto your phone will teach you how to build your own ride-sharing app.

Instead, I focus on the fundamentals of sales - how to approach finding
potential customers, understanding them, and creating a shared success plan
that results in them 'default buying'.

A lot of that will be _very_ useful outside of B2B sales...

\- consulting \- hiring \- applying for jobs \- press outreach \- pitching
investors

I assume someone has already created a great resource on press outreach which
would be higher impact for you than taking this course, but it would
definitely help.

------
readersdigest
If you want me to read this book, why isn't there a prominent download link on
the front page?

~~~
louisswiss
"If you want someone to marry you, why don't you just tell me that the first
time you meet them?"

Same reasons apply here...

\- I want to give you time to see bits of the course and learn about whether
it's a good fit for you before making a (nontrivial for some people) purchase

\- I want to make sure you're the right fit for the course too

\- You're more likely to purchase after getting to know me and the course
content, understanding the value, and overcoming your objections

Asking for your email address is the happy middle ground of "can I buy you a
drink" between "saying nothing" and "asking someone to marry you".

------
jppope
I miss sales sooo much. I really wish there were more technical roles that
involved sales.

Nice work @louisswiss... been following on twitter and appreciate what you're
doing... keep going!

~~~
technics256
I think there are a ton, especially at consulting agencies and startups. Or,
start your own agency and go sell. :)

