
Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It - ebbv
https://medium.com/@ebbv/dont-pursue-programming-if-you-aren-t-passionate-about-it-a5bd4e33cd01?source=linkShare-9058e34c01fe-1486724324
======
zaptheimpaler
The discourse on "passion" in the context of CS has gradually been poisoned by
commercial interests.

It started as a way of describing great programmers. Those who are at the top
of the field probably are very passionate about it. Once "the best programmers
are passionate" became established as a common meme, it was co-opted as a
hiring signal since everyone only wants to hire the best. In response, all
job-seekers are now obligated to being passionate, because after all thats
what the companies are looking for and why wouldn't a company choose a
passionate candidate over one who's not? Not to mention "passionate" is now
abused as a euphemism for "60 hours of work at 40 hours pay! lucky you!"

The truth is the same as always - the majority of people have no passion for
their jobs. That means they won't be as motivated as someone who loves the
job, but they can do a good job nonetheless. If you do love your job, count
your blessings.

~~~
ebbv
I agree with you. My point was mostly that people should pursue fields that
better fit with their own interests and enthusiasms, and that programming as a
career is not a bed of roses and if you're going to go into it without passion
you're gonna have a bad time.

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
Sorry, but that's based on wishful thinking.

Very few people are lucky enough to have their passions overlap with a career
that's marketable.

What if your passion is woodworking? Making beautiful, detailed cabinets that
sell for $16,000+ may sound profitable, but I took a class from a woodworker
who did exactly that, and he said that the net pay after materials costs
(which were less than $1000) came to about $7/hour. Passionate? Insanely so.
Probably one of the best woodworkers on the planet; certainly top 100. Only
reason he could afford to be a woodworker is that he was on disability and
owned his home outright.

I know some passionate knitters. They would probably make about $3/hour, _if
they 're lucky_, selling their wares.

Renovating old cars? Maybe $8/hour.

Cooking? Opening a restaurant is a huge capital outlay, and 90% fail in the
first year. Working at a restaurant can maybe get you $16/hour. At least we've
gotten past starvation wages here.

Singing or other musical interests? Only the very top make a solid career out
of it.

Many, many domains that people tend to be passionate about have a power-law
distribution of money making. A few knitters make decent money by selling
knitting books or videos; the rest do it just because they like it. The top
musical stars make _tons_ of money, and second tier stars can make a living,
but you need the talent _and_ luck to make it to the top.

A rather mediocre programmer with a couple of resume items courtesy
FreeCodeCamp can make $25-40/hour, and then pursue their passion in their
spare time. Top programmers make more, but for many people $40/hour is outside
of their earning potential in any other field they're qualified for. For some
people $25/hour is a serious pay raise at this point. So I totally wouldn't
discourage them.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
Well said, though one small difference is that no one will call you at 2AM to
work on their car / wait on another table / etc. Dev work is potentially
stressful in ways most jobs aren't, which isn't to say that it isn't also very
well compensated, too. Personally I'm content to like what I do without having
that rise to the level of passion - and I don't realistically expect more from
my mail carrier, my mechanic, my waiter, or really even my doctor. I don't
want them to hate what they do, but I don't have any illusions about them
loving it so much they'd do even more of it if they only could. It's work.

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
People will call you at 2AM if you're a plumber. Or a doctor. Or a dentist. Or
a locksmith.

And sometimes you'll get stuck waiting tables on XMas because the restaurant
you work for requires it.

Yes, it varies by job. But 2AM calls are hardly unique to programming.

FWIW I really _do_ want a doctor that's passionate about medicine, for the
same reason that I want my lead developer to be passionate: If it's "just a
job" they may not be following current best practices, which do change rather
rapidly.

To be honest, I think the "GP" doctor's days are numbered. A registered nurse
with a really good AI medical reference would likely to a better job than the
80th percentile of doctors, maybe even match the 99th percentile. There's too
much information that _isn 't_ in any doctor's head, and a GP is basically a
human expert system. A _really good_ AI expert system would do a better job,
and a solid nurse following the directions could handle the human part of the
interaction.

------
RubenSandwich
Articles like this seem to be promoting the Cognitive dissonance that most
developers hold. Namely: 1. I need to be always learning about programming,
even on my spare time! 2. Work/life balance is important.

"Imagine a doctor who doesn’t actually like helping people with their health
problems. Or an automotive engineer who actually thinks cars are stupid and
boring."

Lots of doctors and automotive engineers just do their job and then come home,
in fact most employees don't come home and continue to work on semi work
related things on their spare time. My wife is a civil engineer and yet she
doesn't build a 1/16 scale bridge in our basement when she comes home. Does
that make her a bad civil engineer?

"If you aren’t passionate about programming I don’t think you should become a
coder."

"... lifetime of constantly learning and working in your spare time ... to
keep your skillset fresh and relevant."

I have asked a few programmers I know what makes a successful programmer and I
have always gotten the answer of "passion". But what even is passion? Maybe
they are super passionate about VB and FactoryFactoryObservers? Is that good
passion? Okay our field changes a lot. but then shouldn't seek the ability and
willingness to learn rather then some vague 'passion'. Employers should also
set up our teams in such a way that learning is encouraged. (Work Time + Money
for conferences/continuing education.)

Edit: Changed the first cognitive dissonance to include the term programming
as that was my implied but not stated meaning.

~~~
gravypod
> I need to be always learning, even on my spare time!

You should always be learning even in your spare time. Maybe not always about
programming but about something.

If you don't then you've relegated yourself to walking around like a robot
repeating the same things you do every day not ever thinking about your
actions.

Right now I have a huge facination with machining/metal working. I can't own
any gear for doing such stuff but I wish I could and I devote a larger amount
of my time to learning about machining just because I find it interesting. If
I could get into, and start working at a, shop near me I'd be very happy with
it as a hobby but I have no intention of being a machinist.

Why would I spend so much time learning about machining then? I enjoy it and
it's something I've never seen. It has nothing to do with my programming
ability and I'll never need the information in a practical sense but learning
about it bings a sort of happiness to my life.

Learning is one of the few things that keeps us human. Always exploring ideas,
possibilities, and how to solve problems even if they aren't directly
applicable to us. When we stop doing that we just turn into vegtables in my
opinion.

~~~
RubenSandwich
I meant coming home from your job and continuing to work on your job in some
form or something that directly relates to your job. Because that strikes me
as indicative of deeper issues. Does your job not give you enough time to
finish projects? Does your job not give you enough time to stay up to date in
your field? Do you constantly feel like an impostor?

I have no quarrels with someone having side projects. But those side projects
shouldn't be fueled by some existential dread related to one's job or
position.

I have corrected the language to be more specific.

~~~
eeZah7Ux
> ...indicative of deeper issues. Does your job not give you enough time to
> finish projects? Does your job not give you enough time to stay up to date
> in your field? Do you constantly feel like an impostor?

You are confusing 3 completely different issues and not accounting the
enjoyment of learning new things.

~~~
rootlocus
> the enjoyment of learning new things.

This is exactly what I believe passion is. Passion isn't something that's
'vague' or that you have to search for. It's the simple joy of doing some
activity or learning something related to that activity. No joy, no passion.

------
thatswrong0
Programming as a career allows me to have a great lifestyle: I get a lot of
time off, it pays me very well despite graduating college pretty recently,
most tech companies don't drug test, and I have fun and get to solve puzzles
every day.

It's a great job, but I'm not passionate about it. I won't go home and work on
a side project or pick up a book about.. any learning or reading I need to do
happens at work. I have other hobbies I'm actually passionate about and I
simply don't have time or willpower to do something that feels like work not
at work. And there's no way pursuing my hobbies full time would lead to me
being happier - I'd be much poorer and have a way worse lifestyle.

I also don't feel like I'm locked into programming as a career forever - it's
a great gig now but should it become less desireable then you can bet I'll
adapt to whatever allows me to have the lifestyle I want. If that means moving
into management in 5 years, so be it.

But that also doesn't mean I don't accomplish as much as other more passionate
programmers per hour worked. I don't think passion has nearly as much to do
with that as much as being able to find your work fulfilling and wanting to do
good work. But those aren't the same thing.

------
treyfitty
Why is "passion" such a driving-force for our generation? We keep hearing this
word, and we keep applying it to the context of jobs. The more we talk about
it, the more people get bogged down by the two not intersecting.

Let's agree to disagree and say "some people have passion, some people don't.
If passion and job intersect, that's dandy. Either should be okay, just pay
the bills and live your life the way you want.

~~~
jccc
Because young, eager, "passionate" uber-hackers are easier to exploit.

The idea of "passion" for programming might or might not have originated on
the hiring side, but that side sure seems happy to run with it.

[EDIT: Not disagreeing with the original post, though. Just responding to the
above comment about where this word comes from.]

------
jasode
As long as there is a market where <SOMEBODY> pays a _regular recurring
paycheck_ for <ACTIVITY>, that <ACTIVITY> will attract people who are not
particularly passionate about the job. This is ok.

That activity is different from <SPECULATIVE WORK> without a steady paycheck
such as writing novels, composing a song, and painting original art. Those
fields absolutely require passion because of the constant rejections and
overwhelming odds that your work will not be a "hit."

Programming work is a very wide field that encompasses both maintenance work
and the artistic work. The jobs that are mostly maintenance work can attract
people who are _competent_ but not necessarily _passionate_. They're not going
to wake up in the morning and get excited about moving a zip code field 1
pixel on a shopping cart form. But they compartmentalize that 8 hours of that
programming that companies need and then go home to play with their kids. The
essay ignores that scenario which is probably the vast majority of programming
jobs.

------
Jhsto
I drifted to a career in programming because I loved it. I used to do a lot of
hacks and side-projects, but once in working life, I came to realize just how
much legacy code bases I'm going to deal with. Nobody in general likes
rewriting or fixing legacy code, but unlike others, I felt unable to enjoy the
feeling of getting the legacy work done. As I worked more with legacy code,
paying off the technical debt of others, I started having signs of burnout
towards programming. I stopped doing side projects and even glimpsing code on
the weekends felt bad.

Then I came across this career advice which suggested choosing a job which's
struggles you love to solve. I realized that I loved the struggles of self-
discipline to get the last 10% of a project done, the struggles of dealing
with bad clients and the struggles of marketing and acquiring the first ones.
I realized the programming required in professional software engineering was
not the struggles I wanted to deal with.

Later on, I met a startup founder who had struggles with their company. The
founder told that it seems like the end is near. Despite all the efforts
throughout the years with many ups and downs, it seems like a single mistake
took the venture down. It seems like the years were wasted on not becoming
rich and successful, but then added that despite not becoming rich, she was
happy with her life all the long way down. She told me that as long as I am
comfortable with my life, I should not worry about the risks of running an
unsuccessful company. Ultimately, a greater regret would be to push forward a
life in which you don't find yourself happy in.

~~~
pimlottc
If you don't mind me asking, what did you do after you had your realization?
Become a project manager or something?

~~~
Jhsto
Started my own company through the side projects.

Would I go back to be employed, I'd go after a product role.

------
Clanan
The problem with focusing on passion as a driving force is that it reverses
the direction of how professional "passion" is often developed - through
experience. I can't find the source now[0] but I recall reading about research
investigating professional passion in college administrators. It found that
passion was directly related to work years. In other words, experience and
advanced skills bred more confidence and passion over time.

The other problem with making passion a mandatory requirement is that it's
selfish. Passion has nothing to do with providing value, which is largely what
yields professional success. Most people are passionate about their fun
hobbies, but that doesn't mean they should pursue them professionally. If an
employee isn't passionate about coding but gets the job done, then what's the
problem?

[0] Study Hacks blog by Cal Newport, maybe?

~~~
shostack
Interesting notion.i can certainly see that applying to me.

I'm a digital marketer and I love love love going deep on analytics,
attribution, etc. as a part of that. However I wasn't even aware of half that
stuff when I was first starting out.

Professional experience led to greater and deeper exposure of new areas of the
discipline that were way more interesting to me than the fundamentals that
first got me interested. I now engage in discussions on those topics with
other professionals in my spare time because it interests me beyond my job.

------
d3ckard
I believe this is the worst advice ever. Passion is a really misunderstood
concept. What does it mean to be passionate about something?

Does it mean enjoying doing something all the time? Well, that's just
unhealthy.

Does it mean you have a skill in something you constantly improve? Everybody
needs to start from zero.

Does it mean you work on your pet projects in your free time? This will likely
change throughout your life.

Does it mean the field excites you? That is not a good reason to work on
something - I'm really passionate about books, but I'm not a writer and don't
think I will ever be(or will want to be).

The only real metric for passion is sticking with something for a long time
and being happy about it. How the hell would you know it before you start? How
would you even know it a few years in? People burnout all the time.

Saying that you have to be passionate about something is terrible. It
discourages people from actually trying. It makes them question their motives.
It makes them think if they should start doing something instead of actually
trying to do it.

You don't need passion to be a decent developer. Hell, sometimes you'll hate
your job and it's normal too. What you need is talent, by which I mean
cognitive ability to learn field's concepts. You won't know if you have it
unless you try.

Yes, people shouldn't get into programming just because they think it is a
good career - there is a lot of stuff that will turn people off which code
schools do not mention - lots of stress, cognitive load, sedentary lifestyle.
It's not for everybody. But TRYING to get into field because it's a good
career is as good a reason as any. Time will tell if you stick around.

------
wideem
[https://www.wired.com/2017/02/programming-is-the-new-blue-
co...](https://www.wired.com/2017/02/programming-is-the-new-blue-collar-job/)
A lot of coding is just a boring job that has to be done. I never met anyone
who is passionate about writing tests etc. but everyone knows that it has to
be done

~~~
imafish
_> These sorts of coders won’t have the deep knowledge to craft wild new
algorithms for flash trading or neural networks. Why would they need to? That
level of expertise is rarely necessary at a job._

I think the author greatly underestimates software complexity and future
development in complexity. IT is not a narrowing field, where any task soon
can be solved by _slinging some javascript_. I agree, that some tasks are
simpler than others and don't require a full computer science degree, however
software development still does require that you know wth you are doing. I do
not want my bank software written by a guy who just finished a 6-month
javascript course.

------
tps5
Ignore this blog. Pursue whatever you like. Don't ever worry about whether you
have sufficient "passion," that's a trap.

~~~
gediminas_
> Ignore this blog. 90% of the time this holds true for the whole medium.com
> platform :)

~~~
tonyedgecombe
and the rest of the internet.

~~~
nils-m-holm
...and everything else (Sturgeon's law).

------
StClaire
> If, like me, you have no interest in managing other people and want to just
> do coding for your career, then you’re eventually going to hit a ceiling in
> any organization

I can't think of one job where you _won 't_ hit a ceiling if you don't want to
manage people.

~~~
ebbv
This is a fair point. My thought was that some careers have a higher ceiling
at least in terms of pay. Very quickly in programming you hit a point where
you have to manage a team or manage projects or manage entire departments in
order to get any more big raises. But you might be right that this is true for
90% of careers.

------
BigJeffeRonaldo
Passion is not really interesting. I'd rather hire someone who is skilled,
easy to work with, and will get stuff done. I don't really need him to get
hyped up on caffeine and write medium articles about how passionate he is; I'm
paying him to do a job.

I also am not sure what to make of the Op's mention of starting to program at
10. I read my dad's copy of K&R and installed some Linux distribution at that
age too, but I didn't make any real progress until I realized that it's just a
job and started acting more like a professional.

------
kitsune_
I just spent several hours debugging a nasty npm / shrinkwrap dependency
clusterf __* across multiple repos and I don 't think passion has any bearing
on my state of mind right now.

------
nunez
Yeah, no.

I strongly hate this idea that programming is for passionate people only. I
interpret this as "You want to find a job that will improve your living
conditions significantly if you're willing to put the work in? Fuck you; stick
to the coffee bar."

I encourage _everyone_ who is interested in learning how to program and wants
to make a lot of money to take this field up. Why? Because at the end of the
day, programming is a device whose input is business needs and output is
something that makes that business money. Maybe. Better programming saves
money and makes those money-making machines cheaper to repair and fix, but if
it still makes money, then it still makes money.

If they learn to become good at this stuff, then why _shouldn 't_ they take
advantage of an amazing salary and usually fantastic working and learning
conditions?

BTW: there are _plenty_ of great doctors and lawyers who are in it for the
cash. Why? As it so happens, getting better at one's field leads to better
chances at making more money. So you get better.

------
randcraw
I agree completely. I became a pro dev 31 years ago when I had passion, and
while I don't regret my career choice, my passion has waned, especially for
dev (coding ways & means). I could never have survived this long in this
business without passion in what I do -- even if it's no longer a passion for
programming.

I've also witnessed most/all of the points David offered, esp the ceiling in
job growth and the tiresomeness of learning the latest fashion in coding that
does the same old thing, just in a more complicated way.

My own solution has been to turn away from development as an end unto itself
and to get more involved in the problem space du jour (social network
analysis, data mining, image analysis, medical biomarker resolution, etc).
This doesn't address either of the woes I echoed, but at least it motivates me
better than fantasizing about category theory while I feed yet another
database while sitting in my cube.

------
FLUX-YOU
It's a tool just like any toolset. You don't need an undying passion for
mechanics fueled by a thousand suns to use and understand a torque wrench. The
allure around this job is invented and idealized in too many cases for it to
be genuine to me. It has too many ordinary and mundane problems shared with
other industries (i.e. social) to be a special industry. If it were really
special, people would be tripping over themselves to get out of your way and
see what you build or do next. Some people get to this level but the vast
majority don't. Compare to being an astronaut.

There's also no tragedy in being a doctor that just wants to do a good job.
Not every case is going to be an interesting medical mystery. In fact, it's
probably gotten more frustrating as people suddenly start trusting internet
articles and you have to endlessly urge caution and explain anything they've
got wrong.

------
stevenwu
I don't agree with this article mainly because one's passion for anything in
life is dynamic. It starts and stops at points in your life that you can't
anticipate.

I didn't know anything about programming until university - I took the courses
CS majors had to take in my stats degree until the end of 2nd year, and I
definitely wasn't "passionate" about it. Actually, I was quite convinced I
didn't want programming to be in my career whatsoever. But after my first co-
op term in a start-up where I got to see what actually could be done with a
team of people who knew how to code, coupled with 3rd year classes being more
interesting and relevant than the fundamentals, I gained my passion. I now run
a SaaS that combines programming, statistics, and other passions.

If I read your article after 2nd year while applying for my first jobs and
taken this advice, I would have said "screw it, life's too short" and not be
in the situation now where so many more doors are open compared to my
classmates. I'd be on track for pigeon holing myself into boring stats jobs
that need SAS certifications, with none of the skills I have now for a career
in modern data analysis in the tech industry.

Side note, I hate reading about developers who lament about the career
trajectory compared to being a doctor/lawyer. Most good developers are smart
enough to genuinely believe that being a doctor would have been attainable if
you just switched another lever earlier in life. I think this is a valid
regret if you had actually always wanted to dedicate your life to
legally/medically advising people, but you chose programming for the money.
But for almost all of these developers, the decision to choose their career
wasn't 100% about money and being a doctor/lawyer was never a serious
consideration past wishful thinking. You're just viewing the grass as greener
on the other side without considering the cons and consequences of actually
being a doctor/lawyer, and that type of negative mentality is not healthy.

------
broahmed
Perhaps it's just my perception, but I find we as Americans are very keen on
this notion of being absolutely "passionate" about the career we choose. My
mother had a much more practical outlook (maybe it had something to do with
her immigrating to America as a refugee at the end of the Vietnam war): she
said "very few people are actually in a field they love. It's common for
people to completely change their careers several times over their lives. If
you can find a job you don't hate and it pays well, great! That's better than
what a lot of people have. If you can find a job that pays well and that you
maybe even like from time to time, even better."

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy programming. But it's far from my #1 passion in
life. It's what pays the bills. I don't do side-projects (at least as of right
now).

I'm actually inclined to agree with the author to a certain degree: being
passionate about programming will make you a better developer. The same could
be said for any field though.

Also, to his last bullet point about needing to constantly be learning: I
think a person could learn a long-living language (e.g. Java, C++, C#) and
expect to have a decent career. Sure if you're aiming to work for startup X,
you'll probably need to be hip to newest (and therefore supposedly "best")
tech. Even though Java has been the butt of many jokes, it seems like there's
always a need for Java engineers!

------
probablyfiction
Not every job requires passion. I would venture to say that most jobs don't.
Is it a desirable trait? Sure. Is it the only trait that matters? Most
certainly not.

The idea that all programmers are super-passionate about the craft and never
have any other interests can lead people to assume that if you don't have that
single-minded focus that you aren't a _real_ programmer. This is an industry
where many people deal with imposter syndrome already; they really don't need
any additional help with questioning whether or not they have what it takes to
succeed.

It's a common human tendency to assume that others in your group are exactly
like you. The programmers with passion for the craft assume that everyone else
who is a developer must share that passion. This is pretty short-sighted and
exclusionary. Not every developer codes in their spare time. Not every
developer learns new programming languages for fun.

I agree with the author that you need some level of enjoyment from the process
of programming in order to succeed in it as a career, but I doubt that's
specific to programming, either.

------
mythrwy
My passion for programming varies.

Not quite as passionate Monday morning as I am Wednesday morning.

Decidedly less passionate after forced marches on crappy projects or putting
up with BS.

Pretty passionate when things are just interesting enough but not frustrating,
and most especially when I feel value in what is being done.

But really I've always felt passion for tools was a bit misplaced. Passion for
results is where it's at.

------
riebschlager
There's a really great counterpoint linked in the comments of this article. I
dunno about you, but this pretty well sums up my take on it.

[https://medium.com/@WordcorpGlobal/programming-doesnt-
requir...](https://medium.com/@WordcorpGlobal/programming-doesnt-require-
talent-or-even-passion-11422270e1e4#.kls3q2a9d)

~~~
jasode
That Modmaj article is not really a counterpoint to DM's article because
Modmaj's focus is whether passion is required to acquire "skill" at
programming.

David Matteson's essay is talking about passion as a prerequisite for
programming jobs to help with "happiness" and life satisfaction.

~~~
riebschlager
My apologies. It's just that "counterpoint" was easier to type than "an
article that examines similar but not perfectly analogous ideas from a
differing point of view."

------
jecel
People should not become professional writers if they are not really
passionate about it. This doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage everyone to
learn how to write. Same thing for programming.

Of course, this is very different than companies trying to get more people
into programming so they can have a cheaper workforce.

------
Balgair
Well then, I guess I am not a True Scotsman.

I am not passionate about programming, yet I program computers. I use the
tools that programming algorithms provide in order to do the things that I
want to do.

Sometimes that is for work. I model some bio-thingy in Matlab, or I use
Arduino soft/hardware to generate said data, I do stats automatically, I
manage the website and do fun stuff with it, etc.

Sometimes I program 'for fun'. I use Markov and RNN analysis for side
projects, I do non-textual analysis on stuff I want to look at, I manage my
home via smart-home hardware, I play video-games or sports games and then use
various python programs to analyze stuff I want to look at.

I am not passionate about the act of programming anymore than the act of
soldering or using a socket wrench. Programming is a method, a tool, that I
use for my passions.

So what does this make me?

------
fsloth
What is passion anyway? It would suffice to say, that a person should like
some parts of developing software in a way that creates a recognizable tingle
of pleasure. Because that's what you will do. And sit in meetings. And if
there is no tingle of pleasure from either of these, a career in programming
will make your life less than it could have been.

The term "passion" makes me think I'm required to passionately make love to a
superclass while domain requirements strap me to a table of molasses and
legacy code, crying "Yes! You filthy amalgamation of mixed paradigms, take me
any which way you like! Procedural! Functional! I want it all! I want you to
be my precious Ruby! My cup of hot Java! My serrated blade of C! A twisting
tangle of Python! A furious steed of Fortran and assembly!"

------
panic
In our modern economy, lots of people do things they aren't passionate about
in order to live a life of relative freedom. You happened to find success
programming, but that doesn't mean I'll find success writing music (or
whatever else my real passion may be).

------
pasbesoin
Don't mistake/substitute passion for environment.

You can burn yourself out to hell, being passionate in a shit environment that
doesn't care.

In fact, you can lose your passion, in those circumstances.

Whatever you do, find a good environment for it. This is an integral part of
enjoying what you do.

------
juokaz
"Looking for your passion, purpose, or calling is an example of the fixed
mindset. You’re assuming that this is an inherent and unchanging thing inside
of you, like trying to read your DNA or blood type. But you won’t find passion
and purpose there, because that’s not where those feelings come from.

Passion and purpose are emotions that come after expertise and experience. The
way to get them is to commit to the path of mastery, get great at something,
and do great work."

From [https://sivers.org/career](https://sivers.org/career)

------
RileyKyeden
I'm glad there are people who want to program. I have no interest in or
patience for it, and there's no way I could stick with it long enough to make
the tools I use for the things I'm interested in and have patience for.

Everyone who works on Scrivener, Reaper, the countless VSTs I use, Firefox,
Windows, Android, Linux, all the backend and frontend technologies of the web,
and all the hardware and software that makes it all work together are my
heroes. They do the stuff that makes my eyes gloss over so I can crack jokes
on Twitter, make music, and write.

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sjg007
I imagine that most people here score higher on the passionate index because
they've sought out hacker news which posits on entrepreneurship, programming,
technology etc... But this advice should be for any career. You spend a lot of
time at work and working. It should be enjoyable if you are fortunate. I have
watched interviews of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and what is striking is the
technical interests around their work, e.g. what they actually do on a day to
day. That's the passion.

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nlawalker
This actually pairs nicely with the "How Do You Know a Developer Is Doing a
Good Job" article on the front page right now.

Truly raising the standard of the development profession doesn't mean keeping
out people who are less skilled, passionate or competent. There's a lot of
room at all levels. What's most critical is that the people who form teams of
developers, coordinate their work, judge their value and reward them are good
at what they do.

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sgift
I'd rather have a colleague who isn't passionate about programming, but
passionate about helping the customer than the other way around. Though I'm
not even sure what people mean when they say someone has to be "passionate".
How do you measure this?

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StClaire
Passions don't necessarily have to be ingrained from birth. Plenty of people
get into something for one reason or another and gradually build their passion

------
xroche
"If you are pursuing programming to become wealthy, you’d be better off
pursuing a career in management"

This is hopefully false for interesting companies, otherwise, just flee! If
you are working for an organization that does not value senior software
engineers, this organization is just crap.

~~~
sidlls
It depends on what is meant by "wealthy" really. Plenty of non-manager
technical staff in the bay area can become financially well enough off to be
considered wealthy, given enough time and judicious allocation of their
savings. There are very few programmers outside high-paying tech hot-spots
like SF who will ever be wealthy without moving into management.

There are other factors to consider though. Generally speaking in most
instances, even the interesting companies, management is going to be a faster,
more reliable path to wealth. My observations lead me to conclude that:

1\. Most technical staff is generally considered fungible _by management_ ,
even at interesting companies, so layoffs can and do tend to impact non-
management harder and more frequently, and this impacts long-term earnings.

2\. Even at interesting companies management is generally compensated better
in terms of salary, bonuses and (as management level rises) bonuses and stock
grants. This generally isn't just a few percentage points difference in the
pay, either: in most places outside those high-paying hotspots managers tend
to be paid wages that are much closer to SV wages than programmers will ever
see, so the difference is even greater there.

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edblarney
The article is quite good, better than the title of it :)

We need a better way to interview :)

------
Fraztastic
No, I don't need to make my whole life about X to be decent at X.

------
zerdmann
"Make Programming Great Again"

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projektir
This is more of a philosophical stance than one related to any given industry,
and one I rather strongly disagree with. It revolves around the idea that a
good enough person has a passion, that passion has been obvious to them since
age 10, and it is something they should devote themselves to that in totality.

An essay of PG's [1] is in agreement with this concept, but even it at least
makes note of a certain important point:

"Some people are lucky enough to know what they want to do when they're 12,
and just glide along as if they were on railroad tracks. But this seems the
exception. More often people who do great things have careers with the
trajectory of a ping-pong ball. They go to school to study A, drop out and get
a job doing B, and then become famous for C after taking it up on the side."

[1] [http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html)

I think PG's essay was written with fairly privileged people as the audience,
though. Most people are surviving, they don't really have room to study
different things and juggle professions. What kind of people often do?
Software developers. For all the bad rap that software gets, it still strikes
me as one of the most mobile professions out there, and it's fairly easy to
branch out into something else from it, and it provides enough money for a
good buffer that such life changes need. Yet the blog suggests you shouldn't
even touch software unless you're already passionate.

But, aside from that point, I have never seen any evidence that every single
person on Earth has a passion deep inside of them that needs to be unlocked.
That sounds very metaphysical, like some mysterious force out there is
bestowing passions on people (especially ones that neatly fit into societal
boxes called "jobs", and, yes, I know PG is not saying that, but the blog post
author appears to imply it). I'm sympathetic to metaphysical ideas, but they
need to have a reasonable basis, and this one just seems to be wishful
thinking. You would at least hope that passions are more diffuse or that
people can have multiple ones, because some programmers must have been born
when computers didn't even exist yet!

This seems like a very dangerous idea to throw around, too, how are people
without a passion supposed to feel? The implication seems to be that something
is deeply wrong with them and they need to go fix it. Also seems to be ripe
ground for impostor syndrome.

My guess is that single point passion is likely a genetic or early
developmental trait, and is an uncommon thing, especially since the average
person usually needs to do lots of different things at varying skill levels. I
imagine it's also somewhat associated with impulsive behavior because a
characteristic of a passionate person is that they can't stop themselves from
engaging with their passion. Most people are not like this and can't
understand it, from what I've seen. Most people want to do multiple different
things, hence hobbies. I would like to have 3 professions, just not do them
all 8 hours each, and preferably ones not really related to each other. Like
programming, martial arts, and cooking. Really, I'd like to do 10-20 things,
and the list can get bigger than that, but I'd be pretty happy with 3.

There is someone that this idea really benefits - that each person will pick
just one thing, and work almost exclusively on that one thing and little else
- but I don't think that someone is the person themselves.

------
joshiej
Pursue programming with passion _

