
Airplanes that fly on electricity debut at Fresno’s Chandler Airport - prostoalex
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article209168169.html
======
gene-h
Hydrogen offers better prospects for civil aviation than batteries do. Airbus
did a study[0] that showed it would be possible to power all civil aviation
use cases with cryogenic hydrogen. They even showed that in the near term
existing aircraft could be modified to run off of hydrogen for short and
medium range. Getting longer ranges would require new aircraft though. They
also believe that we could see short range and medium range hydrogen powered
aircraft introduced as early as 2015. Of course it's 2018 and this hasn't
happened, possibly due to the cost of producing hydrogen.

[0][http://www.fzt.haw-
hamburg.de/pers/Scholz/dglr/hh/text_2004_...](http://www.fzt.haw-
hamburg.de/pers/Scholz/dglr/hh/text_2004_02_26_Cryoplane.pdf)

~~~
oh_sigh
> possibly due to the cost of producing hydrogen.

Cursory googling claims you can generate hydrogen for $28/million-BTU with
electricity @ 5c/kwh. 1 million BTU is about 8 gallons worth of jet fuel, so I
would guess that jet fuel is much cheaper than $4/gallon?

~~~
kingnothing
The nationwide average for Jet A is $4.53 / gal

[https://www.airnav.com/fuel/report.html](https://www.airnav.com/fuel/report.html)

~~~
asdfadsfgfdda
Airlines pay much less for jet A than FBO prices, probably closer to $2/gal
([https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/eer_epjk_pf4_rgc_dpgD.htm](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/eer_epjk_pf4_rgc_dpgD.htm)).

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netgusto
Also: A DIY electric airplane made by a hobbyist (Peter Sripol; check his
channel out)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNSN6qet1kE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNSN6qet1kE)

The 7 parts build footage :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KidFSfdb8t8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KidFSfdb8t8)

~~~
btreecat
Such a fun series to watch too. The evolution of the engineering is
interesting and educational.

I look forward to him tinkering with it some more. Hopefully he brings it out
to this years FlightFest and I can see it in person.

------
alabut
The embedded video is super short, so here's a longer piece by a youtuber that
spent some time with the same model when they hit Australia:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CS3isCH4bk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CS3isCH4bk)

~~~
walrus01
I was just about to post this same video. The trouble they had with the big
generator at the field site was interesting. I imagine that like a Tesla it
_can_ charge from a 120VAC 15A (or euro/world 230-240V, 10A circuit)
overnight, but it will be much, much slower to reach full capacity. It's good
that they honestly state the limitations that it's best suited for flight
training applications where it will always return to the same field.

Imagine trying to fly that thing from Perth to Adelaide in individual
50-minute hops between outback airfields... Impossible.

~~~
alabut
Yeah, the reality check in that video was eye opening. Clearly it’s a
deliberate strategy to roll these things out at flight schools at first, so
they’re always circling within landing range.

Electric planes will definitely graduate to short hop commutes eventually
though and not just be niche training vehicles, especially when you consider
how much safer they are than jet engines: they have way less moving parts,
require less maintenance, and most importantly, they don’t stress the airframe
nearly as much.

And that’s just with current airplane designs retrofitted for electric (which
is essentially what these training planes are) instead of the upcoming designs
that are built with many small electric motors and not the giant jet engines.

Lilium is an example of the new style of electric plane, with motors
distributed through the wing:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohig71bwRUE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohig71bwRUE)

~~~
psergeant
Hopefully they’ll be quieter, too; noise pollution from planes is a big deal,
and avoiding it creates congestion and all sorts of other costs

~~~
alabut
Yep, and quiet electric motors is why air taxis could be a real thing again in
major cities. E.g. Uber partnered with NASA to try to bring them to Los
Angeles before the 2028 Olympics, with 18 heliports scattered around the
county.

------
ohazi
The airplane in question is a Pipistrel Alpha Electro, which has been around
since 2015.

~~~
wpietri
For the curious: [https://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-
electro/overview](https://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-electro/overview)

I note it has "up to 60 minutes" under "endurance".

What I believe is the non-electric version of the plane is here:
[https://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-
trainer/overview](https://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-trainer/overview)

That has an endurance of 3.1 hours with its standard 50-liter fuel tanks.

~~~
greglindahl
Yep. Similar to cars, electric planes are starting with short ranges. The huge
savings is in maintenance.

~~~
minitoar
Also, 30 minutes is long enough to just do a few take offs and landings to
stay current on the cheap, or just for doing short lessons or flight reviews.
I could definitely see a flight school having one of these around just to meet
those needs as cheaply as possible.

------
thrill
Bye Aerospace's electric Sun Flyer made its first flight last week also.
[http://sunflyer.com/](http://sunflyer.com/)

~~~
walrus01
Looks a lot like a Cirrus SR20. But I imagine that for aerodynamics and
efficiency reasons, 2 to 4-seat sized, fixed gear, low wing, light aircraft
will generally converge on a similar design approach.

------
icodeallnight
One of my friends has the Alpha Electro. It's an amazing airplane. I've had
the awesome experience of flying it with him. Definitely excited for the
future of flight. Here are some videos of him flying it:

part 1:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbhGfnUchA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbhGfnUchA)
part 2:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6WWQQQot0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6WWQQQot0)
part 3:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1URqmuJ2Tbg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1URqmuJ2Tbg)
part 4:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPoXSItKELQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPoXSItKELQ)

------
ghostbrainalpha
Serious question: If a plane runs on electricity, would it ever make sense to
put solar panels on top of it to try and get extra range?

Or is the scale so off that solar panels can't meaningfully contribute?

~~~
ythn
I wonder though if you could do "regenerative braking" in electric planes,
i.e. spin up a flywheel anytime you descend, and then tap that energy next
time you want to ascend. Doesn't really make sense for planes that cruise at
altitude, but could make sense for hobby craft.

~~~
bdamm
This very same airplane mentioned in the top article does in fact capture
energy from descent, and it's only viable because the application is assumed
to be training, where the point of the airplane is to do a lot of takeoffs and
landings.

Another reference: [https://newsline.kitplanes.com/2017/07/26/alpha-electro-
an-e...](https://newsline.kitplanes.com/2017/07/26/alpha-electro-an-electric-
pipistrel/)

~~~
AshleyGrant
I think there's plenty of viability for recovering energy during a descent.
Any aircraft that has spoilers for use during descent could instead use the
energy extraction from the prop windmilling to reduce the need for spoilers
and thus get some "free" energy during descent. It isn't going to be a ton of
energy, but it might be enough to get a "free" taxi to the gate/hangar/tie-
down out of the deal.

~~~
bdamm
It's not quite that direct. Many aicraft use flaps to boost lift during
descent (better low-speed control) and steepen the fuselage pitch relative to
the direction of flight (better visibility of the ground). Putting that energy
into the propeller doesn't help with either of those. Also, some of the speed
brakes are deployed so that the engine can stay warm by producing power
instead of being "shock cooled". Otherwise stress builds in the engine and
results in the engine wearing out earlier than it otherwise would if it were
consistently cooled slowly. So this also doesn't directly translate; the pilot
of the electric plane simply pulls back all the power and is coasting, which
for many airplanes (not gliders!) results in a satisfactory sink rate and no
need for additional braking. The pilot could engage more braking, but then the
sink rate would be "emergency" class.

~~~
AshleyGrant
Flaps and speed brakes are separate. You wouldn't be using regenerative
braking for the same purposes as speed brakes/spoilers. You use spoilers
specifically when you want to kill speed, or more often when you want to
quickly lose altitude. Sucking potential (and kinetic) energy up and putting
it in the battery would accomplish a lot of the same goals.

You're not likely to have shock cooling issues in an electrically powered
aircraft. Shock cooling is a piston aircraft thing, and is mostly an issue on
turbocharged aircraft. You're not worried about shock-cooling the engine,
you're worried about shock-cooling the hot side of the turbocharger. So in the
use-case of spoilers being used to keep the engine spooled up, you're right
that it wouldn't be necessary here.

And as far as pulling the throttles to idle and more-or-less gliding during
the descent, that's the ideal, but in the real world spoilers are used to drop
more quickly all the time for non-emergency reasons. If you have favorable
winds up high, you might choose to stay up high until absolutely necessary and
then quickly descend to make better time. In trainer class aircraft you don't
typically have spoilers to help this, so you end up cross controlling the
aircraft to increase the sink rate. If I could have a big ol windmill in front
of me in a 172 to do that, it'd be pretty darn nice.

------
cyanoacry
More relevant information (including the history of the project) from AOPA:
[https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-
news/2016/october/19...](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-
news/2016/october/19/electric-aviation-made-practical)

------
phkahler
For electric planes I'd like to see dual battery dual inverter/motor twin
props for redundancy. Sure I trust a good electric more than gas, but why not
offer more than just that?

~~~
dschuler
Multi-engine planes are more complex to fly and require a different license.
If an engine quits during takeoff, the plane is going to yaw toward the failed
engine side, among many other issues. The plane doesn't just fall out of the
sky when the only engine quits, anyway - you can glide quite some distance,
provided you've got the altitude to do it.

~~~
dmurray
I never really understood this. Sure, it's complicated to compensate for
asymmetric thrust. But if you know how to fly a single-engine plane with no
engines, surely you can figure out a two-engine plane with one engine? At
worst you can turn off the functioning engine and be back in the situation you
understand.

~~~
dschuler
The FAA publishes a couple of books, including the Airplane Flying Handbook
[0], that has a good intro chapter to multi-engine flying [1] that goes into
some of the issues that come up.

[0]
[https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/a...](https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/media/airplane_flying_handbook.pdf)

[1]
[https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/a...](https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/media/14_afh_ch12.pdf)

------
Pseudothink
Is one of these Elon Musk's electric jet?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2AVFB-g0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2AVFB-g0)

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inamberclad
Anyone else surprised that the sponsors of this project are the local cities?

------
briandear
They mention it is for flight training but a big part of flight training is
fuel mixture/engine management. It would be interesting if someone were to
train for their pilot license in this if they would be type restricted to only
electric aircraft.

~~~
djrogers
> a big part of flight training is fuel mixture/engine management.

When I was taking my private pilot lessons, this was a very minor thing -
maybe a couple of minutes spent on it every other flight? The only time we
spent more than a couple of seconds adjusting the fuel/air mixture was when we
were intentionally stalling the engine to practice recovery procedures.

And with a private pilot's license, before you would be allowed to rent any
plane you generally have to show you've been checked off in one - that's one
of the things your log book shows.

~~~
tr352
> intentionally stalling the engine to practice recovery procedures

Are you talking about stalling the aircraft or stalling the engine? As far as
I know, intentionally shutting down the engine is considered too dangerous for
PPL training purposes. Whenever a zero power situation is practiced (e.g.
aerodynamic stall or simulated engine failure) it's done with idle power.

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ythn
> The planes are zero emission aircraft running on lithium ion batteries

How heavy is that battery pack??

~~~
derefr
Why is it that we use heavy solid/liquid electrolytes, anyway? It seems that
gaseous electrolytes are possible; in an environment where volume doesn’t
matter nearly as much as weight, wouldn’t a battery built on such an
electrolyte be an obvious choice?

~~~
haroldl
Not there yet, but yes, people are thinking about this:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium%E2%80%93air_battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium%E2%80%93air_battery)

------
John_KZ
How loud is it?

~~~
taneq
Not too different to a normal light aircraft, although maybe a bit quieter.
Most of the sound you hear from them is prop noise.

