
Elon Musk teases Mars breakthroughs as Starship design radically changes [video] - evo_9
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-ceo-elon-musk-mars-breakthroughs-starship-design-radical-changes/
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dimillian
A lot of haters here, while Space X is launching rockets on rockets and
selling Tesla like hot cakes.

If the design changed radically, it did change radically, I guess we'll again
be amazed when it'll be revealed.

Being good at marketing is essential for keeping people interested in space
exploration in those dark times.

I'm sometime very tired of the pessimist sentiment here.

~~~
nabla9
> Being good at marketing is essential

This claim is dubious. That you can sell people space exploration by hyping it
up.

It does not show in money, or people going to STEM field. It probably
increases interest for scifi books or videos.

> I'm sometime very tired of the pessimist sentiment here.

You want to be inspired/entertained as a consumer. People who must be
constantly emotionally propped and mentally supported are not the ones who are
willing to go and work toward Mars.

~~~
xrayzerone
> It does not show in money, or people going to STEM field

Anecdotally, I know many a kid who has taken an interest in space and rocketry
after watching a SpaceX launch.

What empirical data have you to show that there is no correlation between
space awareness (whether by Musk or anyone else) and STEM enrollment?

~~~
nabla9
> Anecdotally, I know many a kid who has taken an interest in space and
> rocketry

I was personally inspired to go to physics partially because of my love of
sci-fi and all space related. That's completely orthogonal to the skeptical
sentiment or lack of moon landings in my lifetime.

Real "space awarenes" comes with facts, not with hype. You can drive only so
much motivation from outside.

~~~
xrayzerone
And the facts, as stated in this article, are that the Starship design has
changed, which you seem to conflate with marketing. So which is it.

~~~
nabla9
I was not discussing the article.

It's the frequent meta comments like dimillian above about "hate" and
"negativity" that I find negative and harmful. They try to steer the tone of
discussion to direction that the commentator feel more comfortable with.

Wanting protect feelings from getting hurt even in discussions related to
technology and science are absurd.

'Say only positive things or the fragile Mars mission will collapse.'

------
ryanmercer
It'll probably change several more times before something actually gets
constructed.

~~~
foxyv
I hear that SpaceX has some excellent simulations for their rocket design
process. These constant changes preceding actual production are probably their
engineers refining designs in simulation before putting anything on the pad.
Usually you don't see this process at other companies (they do it behind
closed doors.)

SpaceX does really seem to enjoy hyping up their fans so we get to see a lot
of their early iterations. Here's hoping there isn't some huge limitation that
is slowing down the "Spaceship" showing up in simulations.

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danielvf
No actual data other than "What exactly those breakthroughs could be is
entirely unclear."

~~~
mkirklions
An Elon company exaggerating their current progress?

Say it aint so!

I liked Elon about 3 years ago before we found out he was a master Marketer. I
feel played.

~~~
kposehn
> I liked Elon about 3 years ago before we found out he was a master Marketer.
> I feel played.

What’s wrong with him being a master marketer?

~~~
Derek_MK
He doesn't really do much of the things he markets. He frequently makes a big
announcement for something huge in 1-2 years. Then, 1-2 years later, he makes
another big announcement to keep the previous announcement out of the news.

The most relevant example is actually his recent public statements about a
Mars base. He actually stated in 2016 that he would be sending an unmanned
rocket to Mars in 2018. 2018 is almost over, so he quietly pushed plans back
until about 2023, and started hyping up his Mars base stuff for the far-
future.

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dmix
> If the rich wanted Mars or lunar bases as “escape hatches”, there are dozens
> of multibillionaires that could singlehandedly fund Musk’s estimated $2-10B
> price tag for the completion of the entire BFR development program while
> still retaining 50-90% of their net worth.

This is a bit of a naive view of how wealth and capital expenditure works.

~~~
dempseye
Tell us how.

I don't think the guy you are replying to actually thinks that the dozens of
multibillionaires out there are holding their billions as cash that they could
hand over to Musk tomorrow. Their wealth is held in assets with varying levels
of liquidity, and, most notably in the case of stock, trying to convert them
to cash would decrease the value of the remainder. But if Bezos wanted to get
his hands on 10 billion to fund Musk, why could he not? (Ignoring the fact
that he has his own aerospace thing going on.)

------
hirundo
''

~~~
nabla9
As a Musk hater, let me clarify:

* My view about Elon Musk is net positive. He has serious failure modes and his seems like asshole as a person, but he can also do interesting stuff that lives past his companies.

* My view about Musk fanboys is completely negative. They fill discussion forums with discussion that is fit only for sports fan or religious people. Only positive thinking or you are a hater.

It's actually good that he says that people are going to Mars to work
themselves to death and die in accidents etc. Because when others try to say
it, Musk fanboys are thinking they can play computer games there and the main
issue is boredom.

~~~
Devagamster
Come now. Let's not draw people with broad strokes regardless of whether they
are sports fans, religious people, or fans of Elon Musk. When you make harsh
statements about groups that big you're the one that looks bad, not them and
your point gets lost.

~~~
nabla9
I would like to argue that the so called "Musk haters" are not a group made of
haters. Wast majority has neutral or analytic approach but labeled as Musk
haters.

The Musk fanboys on the other hand form more clearly defined segment.

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olivermarks
I'm a big fan of NASA running space programs for the good of the American
people and I'm pretty cynical about the relentless Barnum & Bailey marketing
from Musk. Teslerati is essentially an oligarch fan site.

~~~
pythonaut_16
Has NASA developed reusable, landable rockets and then successfully landed 2
of 3 launched as a triple booster heavy rocket package?

Out of Musk's companies, SpaceX is the farthest from a hype circus. They are
delivering on real science and engineering.

~~~
olivermarks
I'd like NASA to develop reusable, landable rockets rather than a private
company, and to be answerable to the American people.

~~~
leesec
Well they don't and they aren't so

------
eesmith
"the ad for going to Mars would be like Shackleton’s ad for going to the
Antarctic."

A widely-spread myth? [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/shackleton-
probabl...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/shackleton-probably-
never-took-out-an-ad-seeking-men-for-a-hazardous-journey-5552379/)

~~~
xrayzerone
Then it will read like the mythical ad. God. The pedantry around here is
astounding.

~~~
eesmith
I have grown weary of statements based on truthiness.

Shackleton's failed expedition goes around in business circles because it was
a successful failure. No one died, despite the ship being caught in the ice,
the men holed up on Elephant Island, and the incredible voyage of the James
Caird to South Georgia and trek across the mountains to the whaling station.

The mythical ad builds on pop culture resonances, like the 2003 book
"Shackleton's Way: Leadership Lessons from the Great Antarctic Explorer", and
"Leading at The Edge: Leadership Lessons from the Extraordinary Saga of
Shackleton's Antarctic Expedition", plus scores of other books and movies.

Tell me, downvoters, why don't we see 'mythical ads' for real failures, like
the Scott's Terra Nova Expedition? Presumably they would have been just as
heroic, no?

Or, would you interpret that fake ad the same if you replaced Shackleton's
name with Scott's?

~~~
dempseye
In a similar vein, Mallory's justification for attempting Mount Everest is
often repeated. He died in the attempt.

We hear about heroic failures too.

~~~
eesmith
Indeed. The Terra Nova Expedition I mentioned is one of those failures.

Would you have the same interpretation if Musk had referenced a similar fake
advertisement but recruiting people for Scott's final expedition instead of
Shackleton's famed one?

