
My personal burnout – Lessons learned - pavsaund
http://codingwithempathy.com/2016/04/12/my-personal-burnout-lessons-learned/?utm_content=buffere939a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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slackstation
I worked in a startup, got really close with alot of people, pushed myself way
too hard and would crash repeatedly.

Now, I work a job were I can easily get 8 hours of sleep a night. Sleep isn't
everything but, if you can achieve 8 hours then you are headed in the right
direction.

What helps me is taking time to listen to music. Not having in the background
while doing other things, just sitting down and listening to your favorite
album front to back. Finding times to slow down enough to do these things will
help.

Also, I find that yoga is great but, don't get competitive with yourself.
Actually just folding into childs pose or something else simple and easy to
actively rest your body does wonders.

Lastly, we all work in an industry where there are many options, alot of
flexability, alot of understanding of people not performing at 100%. Talk to
people. So many of us have been there and yet we stay silent because we only
see others' success and hide the struggle.

If you need to, change what you are doing. Change jobs, talk to co-founders,
talk to your partner about figuring things out. Burn out can kill you.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Yoga is pretty fantastic. It sucks that it's fallen victim to standard
American sport competitiveness. Yoga isn't about bragging rights, it's just
about slow and steady self-improvement and relaxation.

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burnedoutbright
Is it just me, or is the text dripping with warning signs of impending
burnout?

It all sounds more trite than personal. The reading lists of inspirational
achieve-more themed books. And the insistence on not only being completely
recovered but "in a better place" after only four months.

Oh, and the eight blogs submitted here in 40 days.

~~~
taeric
I felt overly cynical thinking the same. My current belief is that people prop
up the advice that they want to work for themselves. That is, this seems
stemmed from an attempt to create a feedback loop that is targeted at what
feels to be working.

Personally, I wish the best of luck on it. I view this as a form of
depression, and I'm of the opinion that depression in all forms is a difficult
problem that we don't really understand well. It seems that any advice, no
matter how well intentioned, is ultimately just an attempt to get things
kickstarted towards a better direction. With no real means to know if another
stall is coming.

~~~
soufron
A burnout is not a "problem". It's a disease, and a serious one given that it
can lead to death by suicide. Main thing to do: consult!

~~~
MichaelBurge
A disease is a problem, so if burnout is a disease it's also a problem just by
modus ponens.

~~~
soufron
True, but let's say it's in a class of problem of its own.

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CaptSpify
The biggest fear I have with burnout is: How will I provide for my family?

I have money saved up, and if push came to shove, we would survive, but then
I'd be so neurotic that I wouldn't be getting rest!

Also: If I burned out enough that I couldn't go back to my job, I have no idea
what other career I would choose (sysadmin). Not just because of interest, but
also because of lack of skills. I love my job, and I work a lot, but burnout
does terrify me, because I don't see that there is much of a safety net.

~~~
crpatino
> I have no idea what other career I would choose

That's what serious hobbies are good for, pal. Those won't allow you to
support your current lifestyle, but if you can do something useful - and do it
well enough to charge money for it - that can bridge you to the other side of
lean times with your self steem in good-enough shape.

~~~
CaptSpify
And most of my serious hobbies are geared towards sysadmining |;)

And that's kind of my point. I've started on some non-tech hobbies recently,
but I've a long way to go before I can make money with them.

~~~
tekromancr
It's amazing how well I can completely relate to this. I have been dipping in
and out of burnout for a while now, and I realized that I really don't have
any interests outside of programming. I used to, but I guess I kinda burned
everything when I started getting seriously into programming (age 12-ish, I
guess). There are times when I find myself incapable of giving a flying fuck
about a new web framework, or a new server orchestration tool, or even
learning about semi-related things (to programming anyway) like graphics
programming or ML. I have found that I need to cultivate other interests that
I can focus on when I find myself in a tech-hating mood. Still haven't found
anything that captivates me the way that computers used to.

My biggest concern is that, even though I feel like I am getting capital-F
Fucked by my current company, I have this pathological resistance to letting
people down, and whenever I think about quitting, I get upset and those latent
suicidal thoughts start cropping up. Not to mention that if I quit my job, I
would be able to afford to support myself for about a week.

~~~
CaptSpify
> My biggest concern is that, even though I feel like I am getting capital-F
> Fucked by my current company, I have this pathological resistance to letting
> people down, and whenever I think about quitting, I get upset and those
> latent suicidal thoughts start cropping up. Not to mention that if I quit my
> job, I would be able to afford to support myself for about a week.

I'm kinda hoping your talking to someone about this. I don't think it's
unnatural for you to think/feel this way, but suicidal thoughts are not a good
sign. Also, I'd recommend trying to save up a bunch so that you could support
yourself. I know it can be hard, but it's much less stressful than living
paycheck to paycheck.

~~~
tekromancr
Thank you for your concern, I mean that genuinely. I have been seeing a
therapist regularly for over a year now. We are both pretty confident, despite
really wanting to, I have enough coping strategies that I am not likely go
through with it, so that's good.

The money thing is a whole other ball of wax though. I have been saving pretty
hard since at least last summer, and, as it stands I have around 500 bucks in
my savings. Pretty much my whole paycheck is eaten by rent, food, and transit.
Some times things like unexpected medical expenses come up, or my family needs
money. I am actually in a position where I just can't afford to pay the
state/city taxes this year on top of my federal taxes being fucked beyond
belief. I know I could just call them to figure out what's up and get an
extension, but even the thought of calling them is enough to inspire a panic
reaction.

If I think too hard about the situation I start getting really depressed,
anxious, and resentful of pretty much everything.

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d0m
It's not clear to me what is burnout. Sometimes I'm _really_ exhausted for a
few weeks, but I just keep pushing and then it goes away. Is it a bad thing?
Could that develop into a real burnout..? Would it be preferable to take a few
days off when that happens? Personally, when I feel like that, vacations don't
feel good at all, so I'd much rather work and get shit done and take vacation
when I feel better.

~~~
reitanqild
> It's not clear to me what is burnout.

For me[0] it just happened when I realized that no matter how hard I worked
the company I worked for where going to go bankrupt anyway.

I started crying anytime I was alone. Sounds that reminded me about problems
at work (e.g. a loose drive belt) would instantly give me pain in my stomach.
It took months before I could work in customer facing work again. I was lucky,
worked at a farm and completed military (draft) in between and little by
little things got better.

I sometimes feel really exhausted and unmotivated, going to work only because
it is a duty (to work and my family) but I never burned out again.

[0]: This was before burnouts was a thing so I never got a diagnosis and I
only realized later that I hat hit the wall hard.

~~~
lawrencewu
This sounds like depression, not burnout.

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smonff
Isn't burnout just a "because-of-work" depression?

And is it possible to "burnout" of something else than work?

~~~
yoplait_
I thought burnout to be caused by stress and exhaustion. Your mind shuts down
to protect itself and anything work related triggers heavy anxiety. In that
respect burnout is more akin to PTSD than depression.

~~~
fapjacks
I unfortunately have PTSD from my service in combat, and have previously
burned out at work, before my time in the infantry. These two things are not
related nor for that matter very much alike. Burnout -- at least, the burnout
that I have experienced -- is manageable to some degree, but I could tell you
stories about PTSD that don't sound believable.

~~~
nommm-nommm
Seriously. Comparing burnout to PTSD is inaccurate, insulting, and offensive.

Post traumatic stress disorder - trauma. Coding is not trauma and can't be
compared to trauma.

~~~
yoplait_
I got into really dark places from overworking. Stopped feeling like myself,
stopped feeling my body. I'd get panic attacks, shut down, feel like I'm
watching the movie of my life rather than living it as first person. I
basically wasn't myself anymore. A simple thought could propel me into that
other dimension. I had all kind of weird body effects, couldn't feel limbs,
completely lost strength in my back to the point I couldn't stand or sit. It
took months to get back to normal.

So is your second sentence inaccurate, insulting, and offensive? yeah

~~~
nommm-nommm
Yes, I'm very well aware of all those symptoms.

Still can't compare it to PTSD.

~~~
yoplait_
well watch me

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totalforge
When I see companies demanding people's lives, I now see a message. The
message is from the executives, board members, and investors. The message is
the reality behind 'corporate culture', 80 hour weeks, and other destructive,
unsustainable practices.

The message is: "WE ARE NOT GETTING RICH FAST ENOUGH!"

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soufron
Wow... Seems to me that the guy is far from being over with his burnout. He's
still obsessed about work, numbers... and went from reading "non-technical"
books to "self-help" books aka psychology technical books. You don't go "from"
a burnout to "a better place". It's not about a lack of "equilibrium". It's
not a engineering problem. It's a disease! This guy should consult, and
probably get a real break. Like one or two years off resting.

~~~
brianwawok
If you are the sole provider for a family, as seems to be the case here, you
can't just take a year or two break. Sad maybe, but someone has to pay the
rent and buy food.

~~~
soufron
Well, when you're sick, you're sick. But maybe I am overestimating it. What I
am sure of, it that you need a real time off, not working at all - a few
months at least. And it's not about "feeling better", it's about curing your
disease.

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bcook
When the majority of my country's citizens are sick (aka "unable to work"),
virtually all of their financial benefits disappear (even in my great country,
the USA) because they have no universal health-care and non-wealthy parents.

~~~
soufron
Wow, where do you live?

~~~
chris_wot
Seems to be a U.S. thing. Seriously, it's totally weird how this works...

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chris_wot
Fuck. This is why I'm struggling, after 6 months, to get back into the jobs
market...

I can't believe this is a revelation, but I was burned out worse than I've
ever been before!

Seriously, I can't understand how I didn't recognise this. Perhaps it's the
surgeries that coincided after I quit?

Now that I'm picking myself up again this article is my epiphany? Man - I am
totally kicking myself!

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smonff
Is it a common thing to realise you are burnouted in front of the kitchen
closet? It was the same for me, stuck in front of food and didn't even know
why I opened the door. Then I get scared.

~~~
madaxe_again
Food selection is a weird one - it shouldn't take much cognitive overhead, but
the more stressed and tired I am, the more likely I am to just not bother
eating, rather than take the energy to decide what to eat.

For instance, it's now Wednesday, I haven't got around to putting food in
myself since Sunday. I've managed a few hundred cups of coffee though. Kept
going into the kitchen last night, and rather than eating kept finding myself
chores to do until I gave up and went to bed - which is the place you lie
until you hear the birds start to sing, then you close your eyes for what
feels like five minutes, your alarm goes off, and you start all over again.

Life is hell, but that's OK. I've made peace with being permanently anxious,
stressed, and tired. Sure, it's cost me all of my friends, relationships,
etc., but that's OK, they're only things, and nothing really matters anyway -
everybody ends up dead eventually.

~~~
brador
You're deep in a habitual cycle of dependency. It's not a good place but you
can get out.

Cut the coffee immediately, throw it out if you need to. Your hunger should
return in a few hours. Take a shower, wear clean clothes, prepare a nice
filling fatty meal, pizza is a good option. Has to be a high fat meal to make
food appealing again.

After this you're gonna crash hard as your mind and body recovers. Go to bed.

~~~
madaxe_again
Oh, I'm immaculately dressed - gotta look good for the clients.

The coffee is effect, not cause - although I am fully aware I've a raging
caffeine addiction.

No chance to go to bed, I have conference calls, staff disciplinary meetings,
budgets, strategy sessions, and contracts to sort out.

As I said, it's OK. I've made my peace with gnawing anxiety, stress and
suicidal depression as normal facts of life. It's like being bedfellows with a
axe murderer - just fine, so long as you never relax and let your guard down.

Sure I'm neurotic, but who isn't?

~~~
brador
You're underestimating the effect of coffee dependence. The coffee is an
effect, the dependence is a cause.

The anxiety, stress and suicidal depression are not normal. Consider, is you
life worth the pay you're getting for this? $150 a day to be driven insane?
Most would say no, except to self deprecate, which your neurosis predilects
you toward.

As a Stoic I recommend this:
[http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/seneca_younger/brev_e...](http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/seneca_younger/brev_e.html)

As a friend, i'd say it's time to see a therapist, doc, or talk it out with
someone close or who can help.

The truth, what you're doing now is unsustainable and makes you unhappy. Step
1 is acknowledging that. Step 2 is realising you can change anything. Imagine
if you'd never chosen this career path. It could have happened, so why stick
with it?

~~~
madaxe_again
Ah, but I'm not an employee - I'm a founder/director, and have 40 people
directly dependent on me keeping going for their livelihoods, and thousands
(maybe tens of thousands) indirectly dependent. $150 a day isn't far off the
mark though.

So that's the rub - do I cave and leave a large number of people in the lurch,
and deal with the _much_ greater stress and anxiety that that will cause, or
do I keep going.

There's not really a choice - but there isn't really any such thing as choice,
we just fool ourselves into thinking that we make decisions. In reality, shit
just happens, and you roll with it.

Edit: Oh, on the Shortness of Life is one of my favourite essays - but Seneca
was Nero's chief advisor, and never had any particular responsibilities in
life, so I take his rather epicurean for a stoic advice with a hefty lump of
salt.

~~~
louthy
With respect it sounds like you need to delegate. I don't know your situation,
so apologies if that sounds presumptuous, but as a CTO I have experienced
burnout and it's debilitating. In fact I'd say the last two weeks were the
first where I've actually felt able to create and be productive since last
September - where I felt I was close to a breakdown; but luckily it coincided
with a planned holiday which allowed my brain to calm down (at least), but on
return from the holiday I had zero productivity and motivation. I switched
myself from dev+boss mode into just boss mode and delegated until I felt able
to contribute again. I don't know if that would help in your situation?

~~~
madaxe_again
Oh, agreed - but see the bit about disciplinary meetings. Unfortunately I'm an
anti-authoritarian, and have managed to fill a company with like minded
people. This was fine while we were small and scrappy, fighting "the man" \-
thing is, we won, we are now "the man", it's become Serious Business, and my
lieutenants are struggling to adapt to the shift in culture, to the degree
that I find myself taking responsibility for everything. _I 'm_ struggling to
adapt to the shift in culture. Sitting people down and telling them that being
drunk at work isn't on isn't in my nature. I used to love being drunk at work
- but that was five years ago, times have moved on. It's not easy taking off
your duster and putting on a suit.

Holiday, I need one. I was meant to have two weeks off last summer but instead
spent six weeks in and out of hospital, trying not to die from an infection.

Sometimes you just get dealt a bum hand, or you fuck up and make things hard
for yourself - you just have to keep playing - leave the table and you've just
got a boring cab ride home.

~~~
louthy
Maybe bring some of your closest lieutenants in and tell them that you're
feeling close to breaking point and that you need them to take some slack for
a while. Be honest an frank with them that you may need to walk (or be
carried) away from it if something doesn't change quickly. Make use of the
anti-authoritarian aspect of your setup to try and draft in some collective
help?

~~~
nommm-nommm
Don't tell them you are close to the breaking point - that will make them
question your judgements. But you have to be firm that things need to change.

If lieutenants are subordinates (that part is not clear to me) lay out what
needs to be done by who. If they are unwilling or unable to do the assigned
tasks then fire them and replace them with people who will do their job. They
are your employees not your bffs.

If lieutenants are peers then this doesn't apply.

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throwncinder
It feels like there's a lot missing here. A lot of people, myself included,
just don't have the luxury of being able to take the time required to recover
from burnout. And if you think being unemployed and depressed for months is an
adequate substitute for that recovery period then you're sorely mistaken.

Speaking for myself, I have the added burden of having to deal with a sleep
disorder plus several other issues (including ADHD) that exacerbate the
problem of burnout significantly. I imagine there are lots of people in
similar situations who don't have the ability to recover properly. Sometimes I
hate the inhumanity of this industry. In some ways it's great, but in other
ways it's just as brutal as working 70 hours a week at a steel mill.

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joe563323
What is the authors achievement. Why should he be taken seriously. Not
expecting some giant genius. But something enough to listen to.

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stirner
Fitter. Happier. More productive.

