
Why Billings, Montana, Is the Best Town of 2016 [video] - scapecast
http://www.outsideonline.com/2107026/why-billings-montana-best-town-ever
======
agentgt
I can't properly describe the cultural phenomenon but there is a sort of
intelligent/privileged/rich get-out-there demographic that has been on a
steady incline for some time causing gentrification of many rural areas.

Sort of a cross between totally-stoked-Mountain-Dew-guys + farm-to-table-
vegan-tatooed-hipster + do-not-really-have-to-worry-about-money + love-
ridiculously-over-hoppy-ipas + own-four-bikes + sustainable-forever + into-
outdoor-shaming-others [1].

I'm not that knowledgeable on demographic groupings but I think you know the
type. Yes stereotypes are dangerous and I hope I don't offend anyone.

EDIT: btw to be clear I don't have any problem with above mentioned traits (as
I'm not far from it myself). IMO I prefer it to the rural stereotypes I grew
up with which is toting guns and killing animals for sport (which again sadly
I don't actually have strong feeling against either). However I do hate IPA
beers. The over hoppy beers have to stop (I'm stout, porter guy).

Also if you are looking for a similar city to Billings I just recently visited
Flagstaff Arizona. Flagstaff is pretty darn cool.

[1]: [https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/9-making-you-
fee...](https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/9-making-you-feel-bad-
about-not-going-outside/)

~~~
cossatot
Rural America is, on the whole, losing population [1], and having the sorts of
groups you're lumping move in (for either "hipster farming" or outdoor
recreation reasons) provides socioeconomic diversification and robustness to
many rural areas that would otherwise be in decline as family farms and
natural resource extraction become less profitable.

[1]: [http://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2016-june/five-years-
of-...](http://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2016-june/five-years-of-
population-loss-in-rural-and-small-town-america-may-be-ending.aspx)

~~~
timmaah
Any area of rural america that I have observed as doing ok/well for themselves
seems to have a strong outdoor recreation/beautiful scenery in or right near
town. Mountains; bodies of water; national parks.. I think these areas are
going to keep growing but plenty of other towns that don't have much of this
draw are dead/dying.

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ianleeclark
It always seems like I'm one of the few in my age cohort (~24), but I'd rather
work in Montana than SV/NYC any day. It feels like everyone just wants to be
downtown to some major city, but I just want a respectable house on 1/2 acres
with mountain views and snow every winter.

~~~
Xcelerate
I think downtown in a major city would be fun for a few years while building
up the start of a career, then switch to somewhere like Chattanooga or
Asheville and get a comfy house somewhere in the mountains (small cities but
not rural). I think my problem is that I like constant novelty. I'm not sure
any location is "best" for me — I seem to want different scenery every few
years.

~~~
itake
I think for a lot of people, it is hard to find employment in small cities in
their field of work. If you want to have a finance career or software career,
you need to be in a big city.

How many software engineers does Billings, Montana hire with comfortable
compensation?

~~~
ianleeclark
This is actually a severe problem that I have. I'd really like to work remote,
so that I could live anywhere. At the same time, however, what if my company
goes under, I get laid off, &c., I'm essentially stuck in a sub-optimal
position.

I really wish remote were more frequent a benefit.

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dboreham
Every time I drive through Billings I wish they didn't have several oil
refineries in town. Given the choice, I'd always pick a town that did not host
major industrial sites.

Source:
[https://www.google.com/maps/search/billings+oil+refineries/@...](https://www.google.com/maps/search/billings+oil+refineries/@45.7884655,-108.5291916,13z/data=!3m1!4b1)
(this query doesn't pick up the refinery in Laurel, just to the West of
Billings).

~~~
nmcfarl
This was also my first thought as well. A truly beautiful place ruined,
visually, by the refineries.

Of course jobs are nice to have as well, and certainly more important than
views to the locals.

~~~
dboreham
The refineries also smell pretty bad so they're emitting pollution of some
sort into the local atmosphere.

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mstade
That video didn't have a single person that wasn't white and young
adult/middle aged. Maybe the hat guy is older, but still – diversity didn't
seem a priority in the list of features. Maybe that's entirely representative
of the demographics, just found it striking.

~~~
lgieron
As an non-USAn, I'm always suprised how much emphasis is put on this in the
USA ("look, these office visualisations have only white people in them, that's
unacceptable!"), while at the same time very little is done to really improve
the lives of minorities.

~~~
rdtsc
It's because of a painful history, some distant and some not so distant.

So it is in people's minds pretty often. Other places have this as well. In
Western Europe it is perhaps ww2 stuff. Someone here just yesterday claimed
they don't want to use the 'ss' Linux command to diagnose socket issues
because of how it relates to 'ww2'.

In other parts it is all about nationality, if you call someone by a different
nationality, they might be terribly offended by it. It looks silly from the
outside, but once you live there it makes sense why there is emphasis on
certain things like that.

I think you have to grow up in a place to internalize that. When I was in
Portland with a co-worker, who was born and raised in US. He leaned over and
whispered "Have you noticed, how everyone is white here?. It's freaking me
out". But I haven't noticed until he mentioned it. For better or for worse, it
is just not something I think about. But he did.

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settsu
The impression I got from the video was simply that Billings is yet another
American city on the path to homogenization, as captured (if imprecisely)
here: [http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/3/12325104/airbnb-
aesthetic-g...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/3/12325104/airbnb-aesthetic-
global-minimalism-startup-gentrification)

------
thieving_magpie
Billings? Really? It gets a bad wrap out here in Montana (unfairly, I will
add). Missoula and Bozeman are the 'cool' cities. Billings is just a big oil
town. They do have some nice bouldering though.

~~~
fusiongyro
As a New Mexican with family in Libby (near Kalispell), Missoula is the one of
the three that interests me. But I'm not a big outdoors buff.

~~~
thieving_magpie
There is no better town in the US than Missoula, Montana. Bozeman's nice too,
closer in proximity to Yellowstone. There's just something magical about a
summer in Missoula.

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andrewvijay
What about crime rate and stuff like that. For some reason I feel that the
town is almost 100% white.

~~~
darod
i had the exact same sentiment looking at this video. i didn't see a hint of
diversity in any of the shots.

~~~
andrewvijay
Would be interesting to know the racial proportions of the town.

~~~
dredmorbius
86.3% white alone (92,543)

5.5% hispanic (5,860)

4.2% American Indian alone (4,458)

2.1% multiracial (2,223)

1.0% black (1,049)

0.9% Asian alone.

0.06% Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islander alone.

0.03% other race alone.

[http://www.city-data.com/city/Billings-Montana.html](http://www.city-
data.com/city/Billings-Montana.html)

~~~
andrewvijay
Brilliant. Thanks bro.

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rdtsc
Look pretty nice. Anyone else thought they are trying to be the next Portland
? ;-)

Maybe unpopular here, but I for one, like suburbs next to a big city. I can
have access to the city once in a while, there is a potential large job market
if I want to jump ship, but also have a garden and quiet streets. This is
basically an ex-rural town with a history, but it just grew suburbs and tech
offices around it.

I rationally understand that it is unsustainable and I watched all the videos
about death of suburbia and all that. Yet, am I going to uproot my family
because I watched those videos and read a few article on HN? Probably not.

I grew up in a city, in a small apartment, with noisy neighbors, piss in the
elevator, being flooded from upstairs, getting pick-picketed in transport. So
there is nothing romantic about that for me.

I have also seen farming life and living in the rural areas, getting up at 5am
in the cold and rain to feed the animals, worried about crops being eaten by
pests, nope not for me either.

I think if more places accepted remote work, and job market would be more
stable, there would be a great opportunity to places like Billings.

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thaddeusmt
After living in Montana for almost 10 years, this video is kind of funny. It's
like an ad for all of the things that _other_ Montana towns like Bozeman and
Missoula are famous for!

Granted Billings is obviously changing (for better or worse), but it's known
for it's industrial plants, not it's bike trails. I will say the "rimrock"
above town is lovely and unique (and it's home to one of the most challenging
disc golf courses in the country!) but in terms of trails and other
recreational development Bozeman and Missoula are years ahead in development.

Billings actually does have some diversity due to it's close proximity to the
Crow Reservation (4.4% Native American), but that fact is just as absent as
the 3 oil refineries in this cheery white-washing promo video.

As a side note: it's incredible how many breweries and distilleries are
springing up across the country - even in Billings! I love beer, but it's kind
of overwhelming.

------
tahon
Interesting. I grew up in Kalispell, went to college in Bozeman, and now live
in Missoula. I would agree with some other people in the thread that Bozeman
and Missoula seem like the 'cooler' cities, but I think the Mission and
Flathead valleys take the cake when it comes to views and recreation.

I mean, you cant beat the mountain views of the Missions and Swans with
Flathead lake right in the middle. AND Glacier Park just to the north. But I'm
biased I guess :).

------
ratacat
It's tricky stuff. Other people often appear more two dimensional on the
surface. it takes spending time with someone to see their depth.

------
dccoolgai
When I lived out there (10+ years ago), I remember the locals always grumbling
about people from California moving in and ruining it. I wonder if that has
changed.

I prefer the Glacier/Whitefish area, but Montana is a thing every American
should experience. I miss it every day.

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JustSomeNobody
How's the tech industry?

~~~
dboreham
The tech industry is in Bozeman (140 miles to the West).

~~~
falcolas
Yup. Though Missoula (another 180 miles west) is getting big pretty quickly
(including a Y-Combinator company), as is Helena (about 90 miles north-west of
Bozeman).

~~~
brianzelip
What's the YCombinator co?

~~~
falcolas
Submittable: [https://www.submittable.com/](https://www.submittable.com/)

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ryanmaynard
It seems Outside magazine propelled itself from obscurity by driving traffic
to its site with population contests through Facebook. People tend to vote
familiarity, so the larger metro area of the two tends to win. The exceptions
are the tourist towns that have regional pull. I'm impressed this method
continues to work.

~~~
paulcole
Outside has been popular for decades. They published the articles that led to
Krakauer's books _Into Thin Air_ and _Into the Wild_.

~~~
ryanmaynard
My mistake and ignorance on the 'from relative obscurity' part, but the
strategy works nonetheless. I'm not knocking the method. If it works, it
works. It was just an observation.

