
Black therapist was shot by Florida police while helping a person with autism - zerr
http://www.businessinsider.com/an-unarmed-black-therapist-was-shot-by-florida-police-while-helping-an-autistic-patient-2016-7
======
ceedan
The worst part truly is what happened after he was shot:

"The therapist said police then rushed him, patted him down and put him in
handcuffs. Kinsey said what police did after the shooting is what upsets him
the most. “They flipped me over, and I’m faced down in the ground, with cuffs
on, waiting on the rescue squad to come. I’d say about 20, about 20 minutes it
took the rescue squad to get there. And I was like, bleeding — I mean
bleeding, and I was like, ‘Wow.'”" [http://wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-
moments-before-north-...](http://wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-moments-
before-north-miami-police-shot-unarmed-man/)

Doesn't sound like the officers had an ounce of common sense. Shouldn't they
have applied some pressure to the wound or elevated the leg? I really hope
that they didn't just roll him over, cuff him and just watch him bleed.

~~~
aphextron
You're confused why someone who shot a human being for absolutely no reason
would have complete disregard for their safety after the fact?

Police have effectively insulated themselves from the public so well that we
are no longer even human to them. Just "suspects".

~~~
molecule
Even "suspect" seems a bit euphemistic by implying that a conclusion hasn't
been reached, "threat" seems more fitting for the view that's described.

------
Cenk
Why would you shoot an unarmed person lying on the ground in the middle of the
road with their arms raised? It almost as if the police in America feel like
no situation can be resolved _without_ someone getting shot.

~~~
mgarfias
Piss poor trigger discipline. The officer kept his finger on the trigger even
when he didn’t intend to shoot.

I hope the therapist guy gets a big settlement out of this.

~~~
aphextron
Poor trigger discipline would explain an accidental shot. He fired 3 times. He
wanted to kill someone, like a large percentage of people who become cops, and
saw an opportunity.

~~~
ptk
I have no training in law enforcement and my firearm knowledge begins and ends
with the NES Zapper, but I just don't know how this situation in particular
ever got to this point. Unless there is some really shocking missing footage,
it doesn't even seem right that a gun should have ever been unholstered much
less pointed at the victim with a finger on the trigger. Not only do I not see
any imminent threats, the victim is offering perfectly plausible explanations
for all witnessed behavior during the ordeal. 3 shots... :(

~~~
mgarfias
Wife was formerly a dispatcher with the Sheriff’s Office here. They had
numerous run ins with autistic kids freaking out and hurting people.

“He's autistic” becomes not an explanation, but a warning.

------
koenigdavidmj
I really wanted to believe that cops shooting black people basically for sport
was a media invention. The cases up until then were all like Michael Brown,
with an ambiguous situation and useless video. But there is quite simply no
explanation that could possibly justify this.

Same for the Baton Rouge "he lifted his head!" case from last week, where
people try to argue that lifting one's head meets the statutory requirements
for resisting arrest, as if merely checking an item off a list makes it okay
to kill him, even if he is not physically able to pose a real threat of death
or injury.

~~~
mikestew
_I really wanted to believe that cops shooting black people basically for
sport was a media invention._

A lot of us were open to the idea that it was a media invention. Then cell
phones began to have cameras in them. As a side effect, we found that UFOs
aren't real, and there's no Big Foot. (No, this is not original with me.)

I think what we've really found out is that for a lot of people, if they have
a gun and they get just a little bit nervous, the slightest thing will have
them pulling the trigger. For example, there was a video a few years back of
some arrest in Nevada. Cop standing over the cuffed and restrained accused
with gun drawn, and the gun suddenly goes off (not hitting the accused,
fortunately). I watched the video several times trying to figure out what set
her off. I have no idea. All I could conclude was that she had her finger on
the trigger and...I don't know, tripped? Accused ripped a fart? She looked as
surprised as anyone, so "it just went off"? (For the uninitiated, handguns
don't just "go off"; either you intentionally pulled the trigger, or you
fucked up.)

When questioned in this case by the victim as to why the cop shot him, cop
allegedly said, "I don't know". That might be true. So maybe we need to teach
cops to keep that finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot, like
the rest of us were taught.

~~~
talmand
What you just described is not a problem of cops shooting people for "sport".
It's a serious training problem. The shootings as "sport" IS a media invention
for clickbait stories.

------
karlshea
> And I’m saying, ‘Sir, why did you shoot me?’ and his words to me, he said,
> ‘I don’t know.'”

~~~
mywittyname
The best thing to do in a situation involving the police is ask them, in the
heat of the moment, to be _very_ specific as to what their reasoning is behind
something. Being human, they may slip up and say the wrong thing, and that's
really the only "out" you have. Otherwise, the prosecutor will put themselves
in the officers shoes and find a reason why their actions were justified.

Once you get something, shut up.

~~~
brador
I disagree. Never talk. Just freeze, hands up slowly. Then freeze. Stand there
and let them come to you and throw you to the ground.

In most cases they shoot when they detect unexpected motion.

~~~
talmand
This was a serious problem with the situation though. He was eagerly complying
but his continuing speaking to the officers was due to his concern of the
other guy who was likely unable to comply with the officers that currently had
their guns drawn.

My first guess on this from what I've read is that the officer fired because
of answering a call of a man with a gun, seeing the toy truck as a gun, not
hearing or ignoring the other man explaining the situation, man with toy truck
makes sudden movement with toy, and finally officer fires missing toy guy and
hitting the man on ground. All within the span of a few moments.

But that's a guess because I have no information on angles or distances of
officer, toy guy, and shot guy. I would not be surprised that the officer
didn't intend to shoot the guy on the ground but that's the way it turned out.

I would expect it to be ruled a bad shoot but who knows these days.

~~~
spacemanmatt
If you or I did that, we'd be prosecuted for attempted murder. Police
privilege is a national nightmare.

~~~
talmand
That is very true, for several reasons. If it is determined a bad shoot, the
officer may face such charges as well. But police privilege is necessary,
because otherwise everyone will simply look the other way. No one will accept
the potential consequences of intervening in criminal activity otherwise.
Proper training would help prevent the negativity of allowing such privileges.

~~~
spacemanmatt
While I disagree, thanks for taking the time to respond.

------
wyck
I have no idea how police are trained but it seems situational awareness and
decision making is something they should spend more time on.

~~~
Cenk
I coincidentally saw this tweet today:
[https://twitter.com/samswey/status/685147750237913088](https://twitter.com/samswey/status/685147750237913088)

Apparently police officers spend 58 hours learning how to shoot, but only 8
hours are spent on de-escalation tactics.

~~~
talmand
I don't necessarily think they should get much more training on it. They have
specialists for that. That training should only be how to identify such a
situation and contain it. Then call in the expert to deescalate. For some
reason the contain part doesn't seem to be given a chance too often.

~~~
soneil
I have to disagree with that quite strongly. Almost any instance where an
officer is dealing with a member of the public who does not frequently deal
with law enforcement, it's going to be stressful for the member of the public.
Knowing how to talk them down has to be more valuable than being able to shoot
them.

I'm British .. we have pretty much the exact opposite of what you describe -
we arm our officers with their mouths, and have firearms teams that can be
called in if required. I guess this makes me biased, but I do see asking an
autistic patient (especially someone severe enough to need to be homed)
"what's wrong?" to be more intuitive than firing at them.

Missing and hitting someone else just has to be the icing on the cake.

~~~
talmand
There's was nothing evident pushing the police officer to fire his weapon on
those two men. Waiting for a specialist for what appeared to be a dangerous
situation might have saved the the guy's trouble of being shot for no reason.

What you describe for your British officers is training, which we apparently
don't have. But I have to ask, if these officers encounter a situation they
believe is a violent escalation do they just starting talking right away and
handle the whole thing themselves? Or do they engage until a specialist is
present, such as a hostage negotiator? If they do, then that's identifying and
containing the situation until it can be resolved. That was missing from this
situation.

------
guardiangod
If human lives are not at stake here, this whole incident is hilarious enough
to be an Onion article. A white autistic male with a toy truck in his hand is
okay, while his black caretaker, with his back to the ground and hands up, is
shot.

~~~
zerr
Don't rush with conclusions, they've shot an autistic kid as well
[http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/la-state-police-
pro...](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/la-state-police-probe-
shooting-killed-son-suspect-article-1.2424300)

------
antiviral
I really am beginning to wonder what kind of people self-select to become
police officers: a strong belief in order, conformity, and demand for
unquestioning obedience, with no hesitation for meting out brutal penalties
for any divergence.

It also seems that the training they receive only amplifies these tendencies
rather than screening out these pathological behaviors. The cop with the most
abuse complaints (68 complaints) in Chicago was actually given a service
award.

See here: [https://cpdb.co/data/bmEM6b/citizens-police-data-
project](https://cpdb.co/data/bmEM6b/citizens-police-data-project)

and compare here: [http://guardianlv.com/2013/05/chicago-annual-award-
ceremony-...](http://guardianlv.com/2013/05/chicago-annual-award-ceremony-in-
honor-police-departments-heroes/)

Unfortunately, it also seems like this has been going on for a long time,
perhaps decades. Movies like Training Day (with Denzel Washington) appeared as
pure fiction when they appeared in 2001; now you can watch them as watered-
down documentary of the real thing.

~~~
aphextron
Interesting data in a really poor format. I'd be more interested in seeing
where these officers fall on a national curve. Absolute numbers of
"complaints" don't really tell us much.

------
kentosi
Is this purely a lack of training, or is it idiocy? Why would you shoot
someone lying down with his hands up?

~~~
mywittyname
It's not a lack of training. In several of these similar cases, they officers
were found to have acted in accordance with their training -- which is why
they aren't disciplined.

I've seen videos some of these training exercises. The "dangerous" situation
exercises seem to favor escalation to deadly force as soon as viable and
encourage the trainee to look for a reason to escalate. One was a domestic
violence situation, where, when the trainee is told, the appropriate response
to a person reaching into the sink is to use deadly force, since there may be
a gun in there.

Which is why, I think, any situation results in a successful lawsuit _or
settlement_ should automatically be considered a violation of training policy.

------
tzs
Police are often not particularly good marksmen. I wonder if it is possible
the shots were intended for the other guy and missed?

~~~
talmand
Until I get more information, that's my current theory.

------
FreedomToCreate
This is a definite sign that policing organizations need to have better tools
when recruiting and training police officers, and need to take responsibility
for the incompetence of there officers. Even in engineering, an incompetent
engineer on a great team can wreck havoc for others.

~~~
vkou
This isn't a matter of incompetence. This is a criminal matter - or at least,
it should be, if the police policed itself.

~~~
FreedomToCreate
This is a matter of incompetence on part of the policing organization in
Florida for recruiting a person for being an Officer, when that person is
obviously not remotely acceptable for the job, as proven by the shooting.

And in regards to it being a criminal matter, the officer does have the right
of being innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. You and I can make
our judgements but he does have the right to defend himself.

------
aphextron
There's a very simple way to solve this entire problem. Every single case of a
police officer killing someone leads to automatic charges of manslaughter, no
matter the circumstances, which must then be refuted in a court of law in
front of a jury of the police officer's peers.

Police safety will not be affected, as any person in true danger will risk a
manslaughter charge to save their own life. Clear cut cases of necessary force
will be open and shut without much issue, but the cowardly murderers with
their fingers on the trigger around the country will think _long and hard_
before they make that decision to trivially end someone's life.

~~~
talmand
Telling people that every time they perform this one particular action they
will immediately be punished, regardless of the situation, will only result in
worse problems than you are trying to solve.

~~~
spacemanmatt
Punished? No, the PP proposed trial to determine whether punishment is
necessary. You demonstrate the problem we face -- we can't even put killer
police through formal fact-finding.

Prosecution is not punishment. If you kill someone, there is probable cause to
charge with murder and let the court establish permissibility of the killing.

~~~
talmand
You don't go to court unless you've been charged. I would imagine it's hard to
keep your job as a police officer if you're charged with a crime every time
you have a violent encounter with a person.

You speak as if there's no fact-finding at all. A police officer can face up
to three such things; local, state, and federal. If not more.

~~~
travmatt
A few years ago there was a murder of a mexican immigrant in a portion of my
state known for it's xenophobia. The sheriffs department there was known to
abuse said immigrants and intentionally mishandled the police report to aid
the teens in being acquitted by the local all-white jury.

The feds picked the case up and tried the murderers in federal court under
federal hate crime laws, they were sentenced to 9 years. The police chief and
some of his deputies were convicted and their minimum sentences ranged from
5-7 years (although they of course served much less than that) for essentially
a badly biased police report and some terrible local ties - truly, the only
thing that saved them from a very long prison sentence was the compassion of a
judge.

There's still a lot of xenophobia in the town, of course - but I'm betting the
institutional memory of a DOJ civil rights investigation will last quite a
while.

------
yardie
The upshot, besides the victim coming out alive, is North Miami is
predominantly black. If this case does go to a jury trial this cop is fucked.

~~~
travmatt
Or the prosecutor will take a cue from Ferguson and bring a limp-dick
indictment in order to find a way to get his colleagues off the hook.

~~~
yardie
Ferguson had no video. Just the word of the live officer and 24 eye witnesses
who each saw 24 different things. I think even the dumbest prosecutor should
be able to pull this off.

~~~
travmatt
the colloquial saying is a prosecutor could make a grand jury indict a ham
sandwich. The failing to secure an indictment, I'll always contend, was a
deliberate choice reached in advance by the prosecutor.

------
dmtroyer
Unconscionable.

