
Ask HN: What is now on the fringe? - ninjamayo
I was watching a video of Steve Jobs the other night talking about the experience of the Homebrew Computer Club and how these guys were working on the fringe rather than mainstream. Steve Jobs was looking at the fringe for new ideas and innovation so I was wondering what do we see at the fringe these days? What are those ideas that are not mainstream today but could become the &quot;personal computer&quot; level of idea in a decade or two.
======
xj9
Mesh networking has captured a lot of my attention lately. It isn't that new,
but it isn't exactly available to people. Given that we overcome some of the
existing challenges with meshes, we could have deep Internet penetrantion
without having to deploy a lot of infrastructure.

There are some communities on the net who are working on homebrew cybernetics.
I've seen experimental designs for transdermal data/electric ports, health
monitoring implants, and implanted secure elements, &c. CyborgNest recently
started taking pre-orders for a "north sense" implant[1]. Definitely my
favorite fringe.

[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11778249](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11778249)

~~~
mbrock
How does one attach the north sense?

~~~
xj9
Two surface piercings[1][2].

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_piercing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_piercing)
[2]: [http://www.cyborgnest.net/north-sense-
faq](http://www.cyborgnest.net/north-sense-faq)

------
KasianFranks
Vector representation of symbols, concepts, terms, image chunks, thoughts or
words along with the unique ways to construct the feature attributes for these
vectors and calculations for similarity between them. Essentially, new ways of
mimicking human cognition without built-in rules. See also Computational
Theory of the Mind (CTM)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_theory_of_mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_theory_of_mind)

~~~
BjoernKW
Interesting: yes. Fringe? Not so much. Vector representations of linguistic
entities (tokens, types, concepts) have been the foundation of information
retrieval for many years. There are new ways of finding better feature
definitions but vectors for encoding natural language information isn't a new
idea.

------
mentifex
Strong AI at [http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Mind.Forth](http://www.nlg-
wiki.org/systems/Mind.Forth) was on the fringe for a long time.

------
internaut
What about Cyc?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc)

I think it could work, and best if paired with an application project. Not
everything is scalable and a long, hard march may be required to create some
kinds of systems, especially with respect to Agent based computing.

Personally I think Agent based computation is the next big thing after Social,
but it is hard to tell what form it may take. I am far from convinced that
Apple or Google have the chops to do what is necessary, because it would
surely require them to violate their own interests and probably legal
obligations.

Talking of that sort of thing, you should look into Urbit.

Urbit is a network computer that could hypothetically allow Agent based
computation to actually work.

[https://urbit.org/](https://urbit.org/)

Urbit is definitely fringe science stuff, I'm sure Walter would approve.

~~~
ninjamayo
I did research in Multi-Agent Systems and always believed that they are going
to be the next big thing but in the end realised that our technological
capabilities are not there yet. The urbit is probably a good idea towards that
kind of computation, still a long way before that.

~~~
internaut
You could very well be right, it could take decades.

I think Augmented Reality will abruptly allow a lot of non-geeks to suddenly
be aware of certain realities (imagine seeing a calorie counter on your food,
or the fact their data flows are going off somewhere outside of their
control), so I hope that will accelerate progress in an Agent based direction.

Agents will be easier to build if they are visualized, they may allow for
metaphorical understandings across millions of people.

~~~
ninjamayo
I agree that AR will allow for software to live between us. We don't have that
paradigm at the moment. Yes we have a lot of devices that we use but they are
all passive, nothing that we can visualise, interact with and that is active
in real time like AR entities.

------
Dowwie
Open source architecture, as in real estate.

~~~
idid
Just curious, why do you think this? And what would it take?

I am personally working on open source tools for architectural design data
communication, hence my curiosity.

------
joeclark77
Honestly I would look toward manufacturing, particularly if you can
incorporate ideas from the world of the digital -- for example crowdsourcing,
mass customization, or continuous delivery of updates/modifications. I read an
article in WIRED oh, I guess about five years ago now, called "Atoms are the
new Bits" that talked about companies using 3D printing, crowdsourcing, etc,
but to make real world products.

Part of the reason I think this area is hot is that it's harder to do than
apps. Every "app" I can think of has already been done, and in fact there's
probably a dozen versions of it languishing in app stores. Manufacturing is
harder, and is often geographically local, so there are fewer competitors and
more niches.

Another leading indicator for me is the general rebellion of young people
against the fact that "shop class" has been taken out of schools. Lots of kids
are trying to find ways to be "makers". In my state, when I was in school the
"dummies" were pushed toward taking vocational classes in plumbing, welding,
etc. Now (20+ years later) the vocational classes are the most competitive,
prestigious classes that students fight to get admitted to.

If I had to guess, the new manufacturing is going to be smaller scale,
extremely high quality, locally sourced materials, with some kind of digital
"twist" on the business models.

------
Mz
Affordable housing solutions. We are increasingly pushing people out into the
street. If you can really solve this, there is a huge market for it.

~~~
internaut
It could already have been solved at least in theory.

A Tiny House on Wheels or THOW can be built for between 5000 and 50,000
dollars depending on specifications. I have even talked to two people (on HN
and on Reddit) on the verge of homelessness who are building small transports
for shelter (several hundred dollars) which they can haul by bicycle. These
can be very effective in the colder months.

The sticking point is Land, or rather, Parking. Tiny Housers are very
political active and slightly devious but for people in cities in particular
this is tough.

There is a nice technical problem to solve for here if you could build a
closed loop system for each input and output for a small house. I don't know
that the technology exists for getting it to work properly even on a small
scale at reasonable cost.

Because if one _could_ solve that, then lots of problems go away.

~~~
ZeroFries
How are tiny houses better than small apartments? Being able to vertically
stack things sounds hugely more efficient.

~~~
internaut
Density or going 3D does make things cheaper.

However there are still three problems.

0\. Zoning in the UK and USA is prohibiting new construction. This is a fact
that can't be got around. It is a political problem.

1\. House prices. Extant legal construction builds have gone way above what
millennials can afford on their stagnant wages. It is a logical consequence of
monetary policy at zero % interest rates can cheap debt but many people,
including myself, have no desire to be buying a building which will take
several decades of work to pay for. Renting isn't a solution either.

It used to take between 5 and 10 years to pay off a mortgage. Builders I've
talked to say their new builds in the US are never less than 350k per unit.

2\. Work is not what it used to be. Even jobs which have decent wages have not
kept up with the kind of house price inflation that exists in London and San
Francisco. People go where the work is, and it is becoming ridiculous to
shackle yourself to a thirty year debt when the job you went there for lasts
about five-seven years on average.

Summation: Tiny Houses are a good solution to a world of stagnant opportunity
and a schizophrenic economy. They are about putting a backstop against getting
fucked by going bust or becoming homeless to put it plainly.

------
pieterhg
Polygamy, polyamory, short-term relationships throughout life, coliving
communities, not settling down, minimalism, no ownership.

~~~
veddox
Sounds like life in '68?

~~~
pieterhg
Good point and I think tech is making us neo-hippies, getting us away from
conformity (in some ways) and closer to our desired

------
AnimalMuppet
Editing your own genome. (Note well: I am _not_ suggesting this!)

------
ZeroFries
VR, AR, and AI (not ready for strong AI yet, IMO)

~~~
ninjamayo
Aren't these mainstream areas of research though?

