
Surf industry paradox: Surfing, by its nature, contradicts basic capitalism - tangue
https://beachgrit.com/2020/02/the-surf-industry-paradox-surfing-by-its-very-nature-inherently-contradicts-basic-capitalism/
======
jasonkester
The article touches on the answer, briefly, about halfway down: The Surf
Industry isn't about Surfing.

Most of the things that the big Surf brands make are not useful for the actual
act of Surfing. Even boardshorts from the major boardshort companies, about
half their range can't be worn surfing. They're made from non-stretch fabric
and intended to be worn around on the street.

Google up a "surf shop" in a big coastal town, pick the biggest, most obvious
one, and chances are you wouldn't be able to equip yourself to go surfing with
the things you can buy there. It'll be wall to wall boardshorts and hoodies,
with a hundred pairs of sunglasses along the wall and maybe half a dozen shiny
new boards stood up in a corner for decorative purposes. Observe the looks the
staff will give each other if you try to ring one of those up.

If you want to go surfing, you need to find the little hole-in-the wall shop
off the beach a ways, which will be stuffed full of wetsuits and boards, to
the point where you can hardly walk around without knocking half the store
down. They'll also have a few hundred pairs of boardshorts there, but
surprisingly these ones will all have stretchy fabric and crotches that don't
tear apart if you sink to your knees.

The Big Surf Brands know that most of their business comes from selling
sunglasses and flip flops to people who want to look like surfers. And they're
doing fine.

~~~
LeifCarrotson
It's more nefarious and subtle than that.

The trick is that you first get popular among actual surfers. That's a tiny
population, the population doesn't like to spend money, it takes expensive
R&D, expensive materials, difficult manual assembly for the abusive and
difficult environment: not a lot of profit or market cap there.

But the dark pattern that the 'surf industry' have discovered and exploited,
is that you then silently pivot to the market of people who wished they looked
cool like surfers. That's a much bigger population, they have more money, and
they don't care about the materials or performance of the gear.

Starting out as an actual surf business is optional, but encouraged, as it
will help you market the story that you make cool surf gear. Skip that step if
people will come into your department store anyways, just make the logo look
similar to a prominent manufacturer. Similar tactics can be employed
effectively in selling just about anything: SUVs and sports cars, ski gear,
health food, artistic furniture...

~~~
merpnderp
How is this a dark pattern? The people buying the goods are happy with the
exchange, and it's not like they don't know they're posers buying into the
culture.

~~~
cactus2093
Even that is a little harsh. Board shorts work just fine in the pool or hot
tub or anywhere else you might go swimming. They're comfortable and fast
drying and come in all kinds of colors and designs. Just because they were
initially created for one purpose and people have realized they have a wider
use, I don't see why that makes you a poser if you wear them.

It just seems like a perfectly normal way that clothing trends evolve. Are you
a poser if you wear Northface or Patagonia gear in the city, since it's made
for roughing it in the outdoors?

~~~
jchallis
I tend to take these brands at face value. If North Face tells me their gear
is for adventurers climbing K2, I'm certainly not going to wear that to the
office. For many years Apple presented it as the purview of the cool and
creative - as I'm neither, I assumed their products were for someone else.

~~~
musicale
Advertising may not tell the complete story about how a product can be used
effectively in practice.

Once I worked in an office that was absurdly cold but North Face gear kept me
warm and comfortable. Many people, cool or otherwise, find Apple devices to be
usable and reliable for very ordinary activities like sending email, writing
documents, or making phone calls.

------
FlyingSideKick
Most of the best boards don’t come off factory presses instead they are built
by someone with great passion in a small warehouse or garage. These guys are
happy just getting by and sharing the stoke with customers they know.
Moreover, once you become addicted to surfing that’s all one cares about. True
surfers don’t care about the hype around the latest thing, once you buy your
board and a wetsuit all you care about is getting that glide. If I didn’t have
a family to support I’d make the yearly circuit from Sri Lanka, Peru, etc and
just live on the beach for less than $10 a day and would be perfectly
satisfied. I feel sorry for my office mates who don’t have any hobbies or
escapes and instead are focused on the next bonus or promotion either for
their egos or so they can buy more stuff. I just want more time off to travel
with my family and surf. After 3 startups and 23 years in tech and many, many
12 hour days I can tell you the whole system is empty. Despite recognition or
financial success there’s nothing in the system that brings true long term
happiness, but the natural meditation when waiting on the wave or for the next
set does.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Everyone knows that, but everyone, like you I suspect, is playing the game to
optimize their children’s (or family’s) position in the social order.

Desire to secure their future resource/financial security really throws a
wrench in “letting it all go”.

~~~
brudgers
In the social order of surfers, optimization is living at the waves so the
kids can surf with mom and pop. And with grandma and grandpa when there are
grandkids. Locals are always the top of every surfing pecking order.

------
codingslave
"Surfers, for the most part, don’t need more stuff, don’t want more surfers,
don’t care about grabbing attention, etc."

This is actually completely true. I'm friends with a guy who owns a surf shop
in one of the highest grossing areas for surfing equipment/clothing in
southern california, his biggest gripe with the industry is that surfers spend
no money. They won't pay for parking, won't pay for surf apps, won't buy a new
board unless they have to, don't really buy the clothes, etc. It's part of the
culture.

Edit:

To add to his perspective, it's not about getting wealthy from surfing. The
guy has been surfing his whole life, is a lifelong lifeguard, surfs 20 foot
waves.

He just wishes the industry could grow and innovate, but instead sees it
stagnate. Sure the vibe and love for surfing is there, but I think he is
frustrated that there is no wealth in the industry to foster further growth
and investment.

But then again, the way I see it is surfing as a sport is extremely limited,
you can only do it on coasts, and only some coasts are actually consistently
good for it.

~~~
b5n
No one wants to pay for parking.

Surf apps suck, they're generally asking around $10 a month, and they do
little more than provide prettified weather buoy data.

_Decent_ wetsuits are in the $300 - $500 range, new board $600 - $1000. I
think it's pretty capitalist to let some kook buy it new and then snag it from
them off craigslist for %30 - %50 of retail.

~~~
everybodyknows
Free, privacy-preserving alternative to surf app:

[https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=SGX&issuedby=S...](https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=SGX&issuedby=SGX&product=SRF&format=CI&version=1)

------
Fricken
The climbing apparel industry is the same way. Patagonia, North Face, Black
Diamond and Arcteryx all began as brands that catered specifically to the
needs of climbers and alpinists, but now sell primarily to yuppies.

It used to be that if you were wearing Canada Goose, it was because you were
on some kind of expedition to the Arctic. Then movie directors decided Canada
Goose was the way to go to stay cozy while on an outdoor movie set. I think it
was Sundance 2007 and all of the sudden all the cool kids had Canada Goose
parkas.

Now middle class people wear Canada Goose parkas to signal to others their
propensity for getting ripped off.

~~~
look_lookatme
> Patagonia, North Face, Black Diamond and Arcteryx all began as brands that
> catered specifically to the needs of climbers and alpinists, but now sell
> primarily to yuppies.

They may sell a subset of their product to yuppies, but you can still outfit
yourself for just about any outdoor pursuit with these companies and trust the
gear they sell. TNF and BD tents are still high quality, TNF and BD and
Patagonia jackets can be used on any trip. And Arcteryx is some of the highest
quality cold weather clothing in the world. I would probably only prefer
Western Mountaineering or Hilleberg to a combination of products from these 4
manufacturers. BD probably makes more money on selling headlamps to anglers
and hunters than they do on yuppies buying climbing pants.

The brands are nowhere near the lowend lifestyle fashion grab-bags that
Oakley, Hurley, Quiksilver or O'Neill are...

~~~
mtberatwork
> They may sell a subset of their product to yuppies

I think you have this backwards. They make their profit off the yuppies buying
the latest product year after year. The hardcore users aren't buying new
tents, jackets, snow pants, etc every year.

~~~
Fricken
Hardcore users can actually burn through their gear pretty fast. A $600 gore-
tex shell will last a long time so long as you aren't climbing mountains in it
every weekend.

~~~
soared
An arcteryx shell should last nearly your entire life with proper maintenance
- if you’re doing an activity that would damage it you’re using the wrong
gear.

------
GrayTextIsTruth
> The Hurley debacle is getting most of the press these days

>...And, of course, we all know about Hurley by now

No I don’t. I even had to search myself and still don’t know. Just tell the
reader, we don’t all follow surfer/skate news.

What happened to Hurley? They closing shop?

~~~
allsunny
Originally owned by a “core” surfer, Bob Hurley, but was later sold to Nike.
They still got a pass with some surfers because they made decent wetsuits and
sponsored top surfers. Nike sold off the brand very recently and started
cutting staff and sponsorships. The rumor is they’ll now start schilling their
stuff in low budget retailers. Surfers have quickly jumped ship now that any
semblance of being a “real” surf brand is gone.

~~~
majos
Now? I've been seeing Hurley, Billabong, etc. clothes in downmarket retailers
like Ross and TJ Maxx for at least a decade.

------
motohagiography
This is consistent with most lifestyle brands. Look at rock climbing. The
people who spend their lives free climbing don't spend $300 on a hoodie and
even if they did, there are diminishingly few of them to sustain a luxury
company. Every autumn people in cities dress like they've just stepped off a
horse or are on their way to a grouse shoot without the land, means, or skill
to do either. Dressing like a rock star doesn't make you one, but that never
stopped anyone from paying $200 for a pair of jeans.

It's not capitalism, it's something else. On the consumer side, it's "mimetic
desire," which is a whole complex thing.

On the creative side, when you love something, how do you find a way to make
enough money at it that you can do it as a way of life? Then once you do, how
do you compete with well capitalized people whose interests aren't divided and
who specialize in selling empty symbols to rubes? (answer: teaching,
performance, and elite competition)

When you are actually good at something, you don't buy symbolic things to
represent it because representing it is hollow and absurd. It's not a paradox
of capitalism at all. When you are actually good at something you love, you
are above the fray. Paradoxes and criticisms are the noisy artifacts of people
reconciling symbols, and not meaningful to people who are engaged in the
moment.

So, I'd say there is no surf industry, just an industry that sells surf
symbols, and to surfers its failure is necessarily meaningless.

~~~
PaulDavisThe1st
> Dressing like a rock star doesn't make you one, but that never stopped
> anyone from paying $200 for a pair of jeans.

Ironic, given the original utterly utilitarian origin of jeans.

~~~
cma
And civilian khaki's were probably to pose and steal valor from the military.
Almost everything style wise is deep with symbolism that sometimes loses touch
with any original meaning.

------
anonsivalley652
As Louis Rossmann would say:

 _Don 't worry, Gov "King" Cuomo will require a surfing license very soon,
that is unless he doesn't outlaw it like e-bikes first._

------
nataz
Highly recommend the book "Let My People Go Surfing:The Education of a
Reluctant Businessman, Including 10 More Years of Business Unusual" by Yvon
Chouinard the founder of Patagonia and the precursor to Black Diamond (he spun
BD out and sold it to his employees after losing a frivolous lawsuit).

The man is a legend in the climbing community, and wrote a whole book on
balancing professional vs enthusiast gear while following his own moral
compass.

It's a fascinating and worthwhile read for anyone who wants to find your own
internal balance on being true to yourself and your values, while dealing with
the realities of running a business. The discussions on what do we owe
ourselves and others is a refreshing take on what it means to be successful.

------
ptah
Personally, I only buy clothes etc that I need. Skateboarding and surfing has
had a major positive influence on my life so I tend to buy from brands that
sponsor and support riders that I like. I don't buy lots anyway though.

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gwbas1c
Uhm, what, those brands actually made surfing clothes?

I honestly thought those brands made cool looking extremely casual clothes!
Obviously, styles change and things go out of fashion.

Heck, I still own a pair of Volcom board shorts I accidentally bought 15 years
ago because I thought they were a cool-looking bathing suit. I even wore them
the one time I went surfing in Hawaii. I don't wear them often, because they
don't have pockets, but when the occasion calls for them, (like spring
skiing,) I love them.

~~~
dahdum
I don’t think of board shorts as surf clothes, they are fast drying swim
trunks you can wear around town. Great for all water sports, I usually wear
mine under my wetsuit.

Billabong also makes a line of khaki shorts (walk shorts I think they’re
called) with the same material that are amazing for hot and humid tropical
weather. Dry super quickly if they get wet, very light, and slightly stretchy.

~~~
nradov
Board shorts are too loose and long to wear comfortably under a properly
fitted wetsuit. They get all bunched up.

~~~
dahdum
You’re right, when I need it fitted nicely I will wear Speedos under the board
shorts for that. 90% of the time I’m scuba diving and have tech shorts that go
over the wetsuit, so bunching around the legs doesn’t matter much.

------
stefanix
Not a contradiction. Voluntary exchange is central to Capitalism. Option to
resist excessive marketing is within the framework. It's a cultural thing
which some sub-cultures are better at then others.

------
m-watson
I don't think it solves everything but it is why I like the concept of
B-Corps. I think the growth at all costs concept is at odds often with other
important factors but we can adjust. I think B-Corps are a good start at re-
aligning our evolving needs and our existing systems.

------
pelasaco
Well I can just disagree. I'm surfer, 20 years surfing, and it's just as any
other sport. The image of the free surfer, almost hippie, has 0 to do with the
reality, if you are over 30s. Grow up!

------
asdfman123
This is just the end result of demanding quarterly growth out of everything.

Start with a brand that has "cool" factor, milk it for all its worth,
obliterate the brand, and walk away with your CEO bonuses.

------
nmyk
> Believe it or not, there was once a day when Quik just made great
> boardshorts, O’Neill made great wetsuits, Oakley made the sunnies, etc.
> Soon, however, it seemed like all brands were in literally every category,
> unfortunately, not always doing that with much quality.

I wonder if this is a natural consequence of the drive for "growth"–whether
that be in terms of more profit, more features, or anything else. You see it
in the big tech companies, which have a tendency to expand into areas like
social media, cloud, and self-driving cars, regardless of their original
product line. Programming languages, where as a language ecosystem ages, it
grows to acquire the features of every other language. Niche communities and
countercultures online and off get diluted into meaninglessness once they
catch on with too many people. Memes degrade. Information entropy increases
monotonically.

I'm reminded of a poem by Gerard Manley Hopkins called "God's Grandeur".

    
    
      The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
        It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
        It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
      Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod?
      Generations have trod, have trod, have trod;
        And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil;
        And wears man's smudge and shares man's smell: the soil
      Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod.
    
      And for all this, nature is never spent;
        There lives the dearest freshness deep down things;
      And though the last lights off the black West went
        Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs —
      Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
        World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.
    

Because for all this tendency towards monoculture, there is just as much
evidence all around us of humanity's seemingly limitless capacity for
reinvention and creation. Maybe decay is necessary in order to clear the way
for what's to come. Maybe we should celebrate it!

~~~
allsunny
For the record, O’Neill still makes great wetsuits.

------
surfmike
The article conflates capitalism with consumer materialism.

------
mkettn
No it doesn't. Surfing had it's boom and bust and now is a normal sport/hobby
like skiing or everything else.

In the future one could also argue: tech industry contradicts basic
capitalism: nowadays anybody has a smartphone, the phones cannot get any
better, and everyone takes care of their smartphone because they don't want to
pay alot money for a new one.

~~~
DanCarvajal
Yeah I'm decidedly confused about the author's conception of surfing. They
seem to be under an impression that the sport/hobby has inherent philosophical
values.

~~~
monkeynotes
I think that's a common conception of many surfers. Surfing is somewhat
entrenched in philosophy. Surfers have philosophical concepts of
individualism, territory, ecology, morality, and existential concepts
surrounding their place in nature and what is truly important in life to be
happy.

Surfers can be considered to live their life like any spiritual individual.
Their _god_ is the ocean, their pursuit is happiness in the moment recognizing
risk and danger is a necessary component for a full life.

~~~
DanCarvajal
I wonder how that came about, and how a culture like that could have come to
persist into the 2020s?

My initial thought is to the limited range to actually peruse the sport,
leading to a closer knit culture. It's coastal dependent and coast culture
always has a distinct identity in my experience, more so than Mountain culture
in my experience.

------
loxs
This article shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what capitalism is.
Capitalism is not an entity that has its own free will and desires. Capitalism
is a projection of what people want. If surfers want what they want, then that
is capitalism for them.

~~~
PaulDavisThe1st
There are many books that would dispute your second sentence.

I'll just note that what most people consider capitalism really consists of
three components:

1) "free markets" in which what is sold and for how much is not (heavily)
regulated 2) an entrepeneurial environment in which starting (and stopping)
commercial enterprises is relatively easy and happens often 3) preferentially
biasing the distribution of the rewards of commercial enterprises towards
those who invest capital, rather than those who invest labor or IP.

There's no rule that says you couldn't have a system with just 1 or 2 of those
3. Either way, they interact to create a social system which does indeed tend
to drive a society in certain directions, and inhibit its ability to move in
others.

~~~
loxs
It's true, but still the driving force is a common denominator of "what people
want".

~~~
PaulDavisThe1st
Not, the driving force is what people with disposable income are prepared to
pay for. That's very different.

------
d3ntb3ev1l
[a] industry paradox.[a], by its nature, contradicts basic capitalism.

Replace a with basically anything people do.

------
lidHanteyk
Like, totally, bro. Capitalism is just how the man gets us down.

The bigger lesson: Humans don't desire consumerist society.

~~~
0x4477
>The bigger lesson: Humans don't desire consumerist society.

How exactly is this the case? By all metrics, humans love consumerism and it,
or rather capitalism, allow us to enjoy an exceedingly high quality of life.

~~~
phatfish
Profit seeking corporations love consumerism, most humans are fine with a safe
warm place to live and enough food to raise a family.

Convincing them to voluntarily transfer their wealth to someone else is the
goal of consumerism, hence the ridiculous money spend on propaganda convincing
people they need more things than they want.

~~~
jhbadger
The revolutions of 1989 would tend to argue against that. Leaders in East
Germany and the like thought that giving people subsidized food, housing (and
alcohol) would be enough to make them content. Some of it was, yes, about not
having democracy, but a lot of it was being upset that they didn't have the
consumer goods they knew people in the West had access to.

~~~
ben_w
Hmm. I live and work in the bit of Berlin that used to be DDR (aber ich bin
Ausländer).

The museums around here insist the two big problems were the secret police and
the fact that production wasn’t very well matched to demand. Even if you
ignore the literal Stasi, I think you may be understating the impact of the
shops running out of various foods from time to time.

