
Cosmic Crisp Apple Launch - zeveb
https://story.californiasunday.com/cosmic-crisp-apple-launch
======
toddsiegel
I love apples, and am very excited to try this new one.

However... it's tough to beat the humble Fuji, IMO.

At peak freshness they are sweet, a little tart with hints of honey, and last
pretty long. I feel I can find decent Fujis into late winter, at my local
grocery.

I was briefly enamored by the Honeycrisp, but they are not as consistently
good as Fujis and almost twice the price.

This winter I discovered Jazz apples. They taste good, but more importantly
they are often hard like rocks. I detest even the slightest bit a mealiness,
and Jazz are a great late season apple. When the Fujis looked shabby, I'd pick
up some Jazz.

Incidentally, this is why I'll never use a grocery delivery service. I love
food, I love cooking and am choosey about what I eat. I actually like going to
the store and looking over the fruit, and chatting up the person behind the
meat counter, etc. It'd be a shame if this ever went away. Don't disrupt
grocery distribution. Disrupt whatever incentives that took carrots and made
them taste like cardboard, instead of the sweet carrots I remember from my
childhood.

~~~
mikeash
I’ve become a recent convert to Envy. They seem more robust than Fuji and
taste at least as good. With other varieties, I’d always go though a cycle
where I liked them for a few weeks, then got a few gross ones and I’d give
them up for a few weeks, and repeat. I haven’t had a gross Envy yet despite
going for several months. The price is decent too!

~~~
dbg31415
Couldn't agree more about Envy... and that said, I was at an event where I got
to sample a Cosmic Crisp apple and happy to say that it's pretty good. Not
sure if it's better than Envy, but... it's very close.

Currently, when shopping I'd go with Envy > Braeburn > Honeycrisp (seasonally,
the go off so quickly) > Cameo > Gala... Courtland are somewhere in there.

Also I live in Texas and all the apples here taste bad compared to Washington
and New York and New England. Apples, bagels, and pizza... you just can't get
good ones in Austin... and it sucks.

~~~
ozzmotik
as someone who also lives in Austin i have certainly found this to be the
case. the only places that one can get a reasonably decent apple seem to be
either sprouts, central market, or whole foods, but the problem there is the
whole "we're all natural and responsibly sourced" tax that raises the price
significantly and makes it an untenable position to maintain for someone like
me who tends to have a lot of trouble generating reliable income

------
pkaye
Red delicious apples are terrible. My previous employer used to have fruit
delivered twice a week and everytime the banana runs out in an hour, the
oranges by end of day. The red delicious apple never runs out. They did switch
it for better apples later on.

~~~
leetrout
I buy them by the bag for $3-4 and use them as a transport for peanut butter.
The good apples are stupid pricey and $3+ / pound and seem to get mushy in
just a couple days.

~~~
monkmartinez
You could use better apples as PB transport. I never buy apples at full price
and rarely spend more than $1.29 a lb. for Gala, Fuji or Honeycrisp (they do
go on sale now and again)...

Most of the apples I eat are for Almond butter or PB transport... I live for
that meal.

------
MisterOctober
Apple [Malus pumila, not the tech company] fanatic here. I've been following
the development and pre-launch activities for Cosmic Crisp for a couple years
now, mainly through "Good Fruit Grower" magazine. [I've also tried to get a
tree of this variety as an experiment, but the nurseries are prohibited from
selling Cosmic Crisp trees to non-Washington growers for some time.

The amount of scientific, horticultural, and marketing effort associated with
this apple is really something. The Washington apple industry is wagering a
_lot_ on the success of this variety. Hopefully they can capture some of the
success associated with Honeycrisp [undeniably a great variety when grown
well, and for years the most profitable variety for growers by far], without
the quality problems that attended Honeycrisp's status as an unmanaged variety
[especially after the patent expired], some of which are noted in this thread.

side note : Cosmic Crisp's "other" parent, Enterprise, is an awesome apple
with bright 'candy apple red' skin [rather thick] and a very dense, crunchy
flesh [hence its fair resistance to bruising]. It was developed by the Perdue-
Rutgers-Indiana apple development program that also produced Williams' Pride,
Pristine, and other fine varieties.

------
Reedx
Planet Money has a good short story on how we escaped the tyranny of the Red
Delicious:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDShFasYq9M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDShFasYq9M)

------
snegu
I'm confused, because I had a Cosmic Crisp last year (bought at a grocery
store in the Seattle suburbs). My husband and I have been talking about it
ever since because it was so damn good. Although this does explain why I
haven't seen one since.

~~~
imgabe
You must have been a part of the beta test.

~~~
benj111
Brings a new meaning to finding bugs....

~~~
gricjeh
Not really, because the computer meaning of the word branched off the literal
meaning.

~~~
benj111
Ok, 'brings renewed meaning'. :P

------
ckemere
Shout out to Central Market here in Houston. They routinely have ~20 or so
varieties of apples in stock and will happily (more or less depending on who
you ask) cut one up for you as a free sample in the store. I discovered the
opal gold this way a few years ago, though I've been a bit disappointed
recently as it transitioned from seasonably available to year round.

Envy vs Fuji comment - recently our Fuji's have been a lot larger (excess of 1
lb), whereas our NZ Envys and Smittens (my new jam) are about half the size.
My sense is that larger apples often don't have as great if texture, and if
you're buying by the pound but eating by the apple, the smaller fruits are
better value even if they're slightly pricier.

------
gnicholas
Does anyone know the health profile of these apples that are bred to be
sweeter? I love fujis and honeycrisps, and I'm sure I'll like these cosmic
crisps as well.

But I wonder if they're as healthy (i.e., calories, glycemic index) as the
apples that we were told were so good for us in our youth.

~~~
askvictor
Apples are not bred, but rather discovered. Most apples grown from seed are
small and sour; fine for cider but bad for eating. Every so often a good
eating variety pops up, and if humans are around, they'll keep a graft of it
and then we have (essentially) clones of that one for evermore. Johnny
Appleseed's plantations ahead of the frontier (for the purpose of cider) are
responsible for many apple varieties that exist today, on account of the sheer
number of trees grown from seed.

Edit: actually, as I just read from a link further down, it's a bit more
complicated than the and there are breeding programs, but they are still much
like discovery, but trying to wrest a little bit of control from a mostly
random process.

I suspect that there are certain growing techniques (i.e. environmental
controls) that are used to enhance size, sweetness, etc, but not really sure
about that.

~~~
jefftk
Cosmic Crisp is a cross between Honeycrisp and Enterprise. How is that not
breeding?

~~~
askvictor
As my later edit said, it seems that they can breed them, but the yield rate
(i.e. offspring with decent fruit) is ridiculously low.

------
blakes
Been waiting for this apple for years! I've yet to try it but it sounds super
interesting. I love honeycrisp, this seems like exactly what can replace it.

~~~
trimbo
Why would you want to replace Honeycrisp though?

I've tried all of these varieties people have claimed are as good (Ambrosia,
Jazz)... none even comes close.

~~~
hosh
Cosmic Crisp has the taste (and some claims better taste than the Honeycrisp).
They are easier to grow. You need to grow smaller honeycrisps to sell well,
and that has been an issue. Honeycrisps bruise easily while on the tree,
making picking and packing difficult. They bruise easily in transport. Many
people love them, but 25% of the fruit gets thrown out somewhere along the
way. They don't store well.

The Cosmic Crisp was crossed with the Enterprise. They don't grow to
problematic sizes. They are easier to handle. They store very well -- all the
way into the next harvest season. A lot of the Red Delicious orchards in WA
are converting over to these. So we're expecting to see a more consistent
supply rather than something that is finicky and seasonal -- better price
variability, and probably better prices for consumers.

~~~
matthewmcg
“crossed with Enterprise”

I can’t help but read this as a B2B software pitch.

I imagine a landing page that says this is the fruit that consumers know and
love but is somehow more robust. Instead of pricing by the pound or bushel
they would have “click here to speak with a representative.”

Does Gartner have a magic quadrant for fruit?

------
antidaily
I buy Pink Ladies. And recommend them to you. Tart, crisp.

~~~
fiter
This article has an interesting part about Pink Ladies; how the apples you buy
in the store labeled "Pink Ladies" might be a different cultivar than Cripps
Pink which was the previously copyrighted cultivar that originally had the
"Pink Lady" name!

~~~
ravedave5
It seems like a weird plan, if 1/3 batches are a different variety and I don't
like them now I think all pink ladies are bad.

------
m0zg
Sweetango is already much better than Honeycrisp. Expensive though, so not an
"everyday" apple.

~~~
spike021
Tried this type a while back. Also quite tasty.

~~~
m0zg
> quite tasty

Understatement of the year. I struggle to think what could be improved in
Sweetango. It's what apples want to be when they grow up.

------
russellbeattie
The only problem with this apple is that at first glance it looks like the
infamous Red Delicious. They should have bred stripes into it or something...

------
lame-robot-hoax
I didn’t know I could get so hyped over the launch of a new apple.

------
abruzzi
I was always surprised at the popularity of the "Delicious" apples. My
favorite is still Granny Smith, but then I prefer tart apples. I have noticed
the explosion of types in the last few decades, but nothing I've tried is as
good as a Granny Smith.

~~~
spike021
In the past I've personally enjoyed the Golden Delicious apples simply because
they are more "mellow" if that makes sense. They're not some artisan apple
breed that is starting to become more of the norm. They just work as a simple
apple.

~~~
cypherpunks01
I learned that Honeycrisp is a great-grandchild of Golden Delicious, from a
site linked elsewhere here:
[https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/honey-
crisp](https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/honey-crisp)

------
droithomme
Red Delicious was one of the best apple varieties in history. Growers though
decided to pick early, ship unripe, store over 6 months, not curate their
orchards, and produce low quality fruit. It's the economics, stupid! Consumers
then completely rejected the Red Delicious breed and the brand name is toxic
forevermore.

The same will happen with all the subsequent varieties.

You can have the most delicious fruit anyone has ever tasted, then neglect and
abuse its production until it is synonymous with mealy tasteless cardboard.
And you will, if you're a commercial apple grower.

------
steveads
"22 years from cross to launch". It will be interesting to see if the time to
market will be cut in the near future which could lead to an explosion of new
flavours and produce products.

~~~
benj111
They're all propagated from cuttings. You need to to spend 5(ish) years to get
a crop to see what the apples actually taste like, then you've got one tree to
take cuttings from to get the first 'generation', which you'll be waiting a
similar amount of time to get fruit, longer to get a decent crop. It just
takes time to scale up the number of trees, from just the one, and then for
the trees to get mature enough to bear a decent crop.

~~~
jelliclesfarm
A company found a technology to clone from tissue culture and was sued by WSU.

It’s old news now as it’s all been settled. But in the Apple/Fruit world, this
was a closely watched lawsuit.

[https://www.geekwire.com/2018/cosmic-crisp-conflict-
washingt...](https://www.geekwire.com/2018/cosmic-crisp-conflict-washington-
state-university-sues-spinoff-company-dispute-apple-future/)

------
noisy_boy
For a second I was confused that this was about an Ubuntu launch.

------
mrguyorama
Oddly enough I actually love the slightly bittersweet flavor of red delicious
apples. While they do get mealy very quickly, a fresh one is very flavorful to
me.

------
ratsimihah
I can't tell whether this is a troll launch with troll comments, because an
apple launch feels out of place, yet everyone is so into it o_o

------
tootie
Now I want a pear.

------
hosh
I have been hearing about WA 38 for a while, and I am eagerly looking forward
to tasting it this fall.

------
empath75
I'm disappointed that this isn't about rocketry.

------
syphilis2
I still don't understand: what is the difference between calling it WA 38 and
Cosmic Crisp?

~~~
NikolaeVarius
One is a code and the other is a marketable name?

~~~
syphilis2
But what does it mean that someone "is able to answer only WA 38 questions,
and not Cosmic Crisp ones."?

------
war1025
Obligatory plug for my favorite apple, the Pinata [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinova)

------
roflchoppa
Green apples and peanut butter plz

------
awakeasleep
Summary: They've bred the red delicious with the honeycrisp.

The honeycrisp is enjoyable to eat, the red delicious is bad to eat but good
for apple warehousers and sellers.

So now we get the middle of both worlds.

~~~
badfrog
> Summary: They've bred the red delicious with the honeycrisp.

From the article:

> The Cosmic Crisp (right) is the result of crossbreeding two varieties: the
> Honeycrisp (left), which growers find finicky but which gives the Cosmic
> Crisp its texture and juiciness, and Enterprise, a late-ripening, long-
> storing apple.

Is Enterprise a fancy word for red delicious?

~~~
fiter
I think they are different[0][1].

[0] [https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/red-
delicious](https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/red-delicious)

[1]
[https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/enterprise](https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/enterprise)

~~~
danso
Apparently "Orange Pippin" is a variety of apple, but I'm amused that a site
with "Orange" in its name is actually "all about apples, pears, plums, and
cherries"

~~~
jelliclesfarm
Pippins are usually light green(like Granny Smiths) and can be yellow
too..with a tinge or red or orange as it’s cap...

no one knows the exact parent of Orange Pippin that used to be known as
Cox(after the breeder) but it could have been a Pippin but Cox’s Orange Pippin
is a russet/orange.

Having said that, I have a very old Apple tree that came with the house(this
is in California) and is probably over 25 years old at least(if not more)...it
looks like a Granny Smith but it tastes like a Pippin to me.(not
entirely..still reminds me of my favorite Cox Orange Pippin from the UK.
Nothing in America compares to Cox Orange Pippin afaik)...I don’t even pick it
before first frost. After first frost, something happens to the tart flesh and
the sugars as it comes to the surface. It’s magical. I never pick apples
before first frost. Not from this tree anyways. I have a newer Gala and it’s
ok. The first frost trick doesn’t work on it. I wish I knew the name of my
green apple variety.

