

Ask HN: anyone here moved from academia to corporate? - crocowhile

After a dedicated career in university I am now trying to get a job as assistant professor (neuroscience) but the market is a bitch and so far has been really difficult despite the fact I have a damn good CV.<p>I am starting to consider that maybe I should take this as opportunity to explore new ways in life. I am thinking doing something completely unrelated to acquire new skills (and maybe some money) and then start something by myself again. I met someone who works for McKinsey recently and I am tempted to give it a try.<p>Has anyone here done a similar step? Namely, realizing that a career in university may not be the best for them and explore new area? How did it  end up?
======
RiderOfGiraffes
Not sure it will help, but I had two three-year post-doc contracts. During the
second I was doing external consultancy, and as my University contract was
coming to an end, the company with whom I worked most closely offered me a
job, which I took.

After many mergers, split offs and other coporate movements, I (and some
colleagues) did a management buyout, so now I (part) own the descendant.

It's working well for me, but I think my position is a bit unusual.

Still, if you want to get into the commercial world, see if you can do some
external consultancy while still employed by the University. They will want a
cut, but it will give you a taste of what's wanted, and what it's like.

~~~
crocowhile
I cannot really do that because I've _just_ finished my first postdoc. Despite
scientifically it went extremely well, my contract got terminated pretty much
the moment I told my advisor I wanted to look for a position as assistant
professor (They don't like people moving on to become their competitors, I
guess. Don't get me started with what are the things I hate about academia).

I have been thinking of starting an internet business of mine in the past year
but did not get far yet because I though it would feel more like a "plan B"
than a genuine choice and I wanted first to make sure I'd do it with the
highest motivation.

Thanks for your view.

~~~
hga
Hmmm; in the corporate world a position akin to a postdoc's would require no
more than the standard two weeks notice.

Given the nature of the work and the theory of collegiality I'd expect things
to be different, but what would you say is expected from postdocs? I guess
seeking the position of professor is not something you'd be able to keep
secret, if for no other reason than that the hiring institution would expect
to talk to your current adviser and so on.

Maybe it's a good thing I got sidelined into a sordid life of programming ^_^.

Good luck! Finances forced me to change careers after my freshman year in
college, but that was at a time when programming and system administration
work was very hot (1980) and I had the skills for the former and the
foundation for the latter. Today, I don't recommend a career in these areas
unless you have a calling, and it doesn't sound like that's the case for you.

~~~
crocowhile
Getting a job as professor can be difficult. There is a strong competition and
it may take up to a year, sometimes more. Scientific etiquette usually says
that your supervisor will support you during that time if they can, by
allowing you to stay in the lab and keep doing research although at slower
pace due to the traveling the job seek involves. In fact, advisors actually
gain from postdocs finding good positions because it's the best publicity to
attract good people in the future.

One thing that I learnd from my time doing research is that science is not
moving so fast and so well because of the people; au contraire! It's because
of the scientific method. The Galileian method is the best thing man ever came
out with. Take a bunch of jerks, make them work in (at least loose) accordance
to scientific method and they'll do amazing stuff.

~~~
robg
Sounds like you had a bad experience. Unless you're completely fed up, I would
try finding a lab doing stuff that truly inspires you. They are out there and
with some folks pursuing ventures simultaneously - see folks like Ed Boyden
and John Donoghue, for instance.

If you can't find any research you still find exciting, then it may be time to
cut the cord and flee the tower.

~~~
crocowhile
I did have bad experience(s) with people but it doesn't mean I don't love what
I was doing. I am actually very good at my job and find excitement very
easily. I am not keen at doing just another postdoc though, simply because I
don't need it (unless I decide to switch field completely).

There are certain things in academic science that I think simply don't work
the way they should. I'd be very happy to try to change them but I am not
willing to cope with them anymore.

May I ask you what is your main job right now? Is it your startup? The lab? Or
something else? I find your split position - academy and outer world - quite
interesting. I'll send you an email in the next days, if you don't mind
getting in touch.

~~~
micheles
I can relate with you since a few years ago, after 5.5 years of Postdoc in
Theoretical Physics I decided to leave academia. I was fed up with the system
and tired of begging for a job. So I moved to IT and I am a programmer right
now. I had to start everything from scratch again and throw out of the window
15 years of study. The good thing is that now I have a decent job, I got
married and I am finishing to pay my mortgage. Most of my collegues are
Physicists too so the environment I am working on is not really different than
before. Of course the job is quite different but people are more important
than the job, as you know. Good luck!

------
dmd
I'm in exactly the same boat - finished my PhD in cognitive neuroscience at
the University of Pennsylvania, now a postdoc, also at Penn, and want out.
Funnily enough I'm also looking at things like McKinsey and BCG, but they hire
on a yearly basis only - as in, I couldn't even get an interview until
September 2010, and they wouldn't be making a hiring decision until January
2011.

I'd love to chat with you about this - send me an email to my username at
3e.org.

~~~
robg
Small world on these pipes!

It all depends on your interests and tolerance for risk. I've never cut the
umbilical cord because I still enjoy my research. Being a visiting scientist
has allowed me to keep a toehold in the academy and still push out papers. But
I have needed more extended periods for ideas I wanted to pursue that everyday
research didn't allow. I'm biased but the Boston area is perhaps one of the
best places to try to turn research into action but it's less a startup
culture, it seems, than CA.

Where possible you might consider lateral moves into fields that could benefit
from the skills and concepts you've been thinking about but that are closer to
industry. A clean break might feel more freeing however. That's where your
current interests come in. If you spin off of your current work you'll
probably have an easier time landing on your feet into a related field (e.g.,
computational vision and robotics?) or startup (e.g., lumosity.com). If you
stay in your current position you can try some classes in new fields. Rely on
the strengths you have there. See if you're interested in the business/finance
side by auditing courses at Wharton (or your business school, crocowhile). Or
sample research in bioengineering etc. A big university is a great place to
reorient and by connecting with like minds. After all, that's what got you on
your current path. Then again, if you see that as part of the problem, then a
clean break may be necessary.

Honestly, the more I've been talking to people outside of the bubble, the more
I've been seeing the bubble. But it's been a slow process of self-discovery
for me. How quickly you move will probably depend on how much urgency you feel
for a change. And how cheaply you live will determine how long you can live
free to pursue your own ideas. YC and similar programs (DreamIT in Philly)
seem like a really good way to develop any ideas you may be interested in
pursuing.

------
michaeljung
Many good answers here already.

What I can add is that having learned, worked or teached other parts of the
corporate environment, say management, accounting, economics,
entrepreneurship, public relations, which can be found in the corporate world
will make the entry much more easier.

Knowing something of the above will help you move faster and the hurdle 'to
learn on the job' is not there. But still be able to apply insight of (say
neuroscience) to your job.

And consultancies aren't the only ones who are looking for outsiders to their
business. Small companies and start-ups are much more open to people (IMHO)
with a different profile but obviously in the last third part of the IQ
spectrum. Smart people with a can do attitude are always an asset.

------
DaniFong
Consider applying here:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Wills_Neuroscience_Instit...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Wills_Neuroscience_Institute#Redwood_Center_for_Theoretical_Neuroscience)

They'll understand that the market is trouble, and Jeff Hawkens (and
presumably many of his employees) have had one foot in both doors for a while.

