
Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Moves Ahead with Python 2 Removal - rbanffy
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-20.04-Clear-Python2
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downerending
Feels kind of weird. There are quite a few Unix utilities that are essentially
in maintenance mode but nonetheless part of the "canon" that one expects to be
present on almost any modern machine. What's the rationale for 'python2' not
being one as well?

The standard argument would seem to be that 'python3' exists, but it's not
really the same language or compatible.

A better argument would be that it's not really clear who's going to do
upstream support for python2. I suspect a group will spring up, though. I
_still_ encounter more python2 software than python3 software.

~~~
Lammy
> I still encounter more python2 software than python3 software.

Well, you're looking at the way this will change. I've been through this
before when Perl was removed from the base FreeBSD system some time back in
the 4.x days. It felt weird at the time too but was obviously the correct
decision in hindsight.

~~~
downerending
Though I'm no longer a fan of Perl, I like the idea that a reasonably up-to-
date version can be expected on modern Linux systems. Disk space is so cheap,
it seems crazy to strip it out just to save a few megabytes, except perhaps on
embedded platforms.

I spend a lot of time fixing other people's stuff, and it's exasperating to
log into a system only to discover that it's missing such basic tools. (emacs
and strace are more important to me, but the idea is the same.)

~~~
Lammy
It's worth the reduction in attack surface:
[https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-
list.php?vendor_id=...](https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-
list.php?vendor_id=1885)

I concede it is a little different on FreeBSD where the "base system" is
developed in a single source tree and released as a complete OS. Third-party
interpreters/libraries like Perl are more visibly alien there than on a Linux
distro where everything effectively is.

~~~
downerending
Hmm. As long as nothing is setuid, mere presence of different language
interpreters doesn't sound like it would make much difference.

I suppose a nicely set up host would be a bit more attractive as a target, and
similarly a VMS box not be an attractive target, no matter how insecure it is.
Still, I wouldn't want to switch back to VMS.

~~~
Lammy
Well in the case I'm remembering a lot of setuid system utilities were written
in Perl and had to be re-written in C before the interpreter and libraries
could be excised. I don't know to what extent Python 2 exhibits that problem
for most *nix systems.

~~~
downerending
I agree completely with switching the language for various distribution
utilities to more modern languages as needed. I'm rather arguing against
removing vanilla language environments that have attained the status of being
ubiquitous, e.g., to save space or militate against the usage of "old"
languages.

