

Ask HN: My site isn't sexy or social, but I'm very proud of it: what's next? - dmazin

Hey HN.<p>A month ago, if asked at a party what I did I would not even mention that I’ve spent over two hundred hours in the last eight months learning web development and building a start up. I’d say that I’m an applied math major who wants to go into biomathematics but doesn’t want to use that degree for anything, never revealing that what I really want to do is run a web business.<p>Soon after the last time I hid my true passion during a conversation I decided to release my web app no matter how unfinished I felt it to be. Since the release I’ve received several users per day (although I don’t think I’ve gotten more than a few dedicated users) at a total cost of just under $30. Importantly, though, because of my ads I’ve been contacted by the director of education of a major university to see if she should recommend the app to students or not. We’re still talking, but this could be what brings the first good number of users to my site.<p>The app isn’t sexy and it isn’t going to change the world. Simply put, it’s a grade calculator and tracker. After using spreadsheets to figure out my grades for too long, I decided that there was at least a small need for a web app. Achiever, as I decided to call it, was born in February.<p>You can find it at http://www.getachiever.com<p>I’m curious, what do I do next? There is still technical work to do - the completion of the landing page design, the implementation of recurring billing - but I have arrived at what I believe to be the true challenge of web business: getting people to actually use my creation. Since it’s not a social app, I can’t create serious viral effects. Would, perhaps, letting users post their grades bring traffic? Should I try to market the app instead to universities?<p>A lot of the apps submitted to HN are sexy and took 24 hours to make and, seemingly, tend to include the letter three in the name. I didn’t want to go after sexy and social and business model-less (look where Twitter is this week). I wanted to make a well-built tool, like Basecamp, and charge people for it. I hope you still find my story interesting.<p>EDIT: Seems like the site's down. Hmm.
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hparra
I like it too. You took a small problem and offered a solution to it. It won't
change the world, but it will probably change someone's day.

You will eventually be able to determine that someone is doing well or poor in
their classes. Why not use this to recommend tutors or tutoring jobs?

BTW, Your honesty and courage to face rejection inspires me. Thanks.

~~~
dmazin
That's interesting. Do you mean to allow tutors to track the success of their
students?

And thanks so much.

~~~
hparra
If your system is registering a C average for a student in Calculus perhaps
your system can recommend a tutor. This is where referrals and sponsorships
come in ($). Or perhaps someone in that same class. There's a social
networking aspects right there. There's tons of interesting things you could
do!

I'm curious if anyone else thinks that charging for this may not be the best
approach. Anyone?

(Wait, you're in the bible belt of SoCal? Is that South OC?)

~~~
dmazin
That's a pretty good idea, but I need a good user base before I can experiment
with that, I think.

Traditional freemium may indeed not work for this. I've seen examples of
freemium working for b2b services but charging customers, especially students,
may really not work out. This is one of the things I've wanted to find out for
a while now.

It's near the OC but worse: The Inland Empire.

~~~
hparra
We don't want any 909ers 'round here brah. :)

On another note: there is a ton of opportunity in web companies with a
background in applied mathematics with all the data mining and social graphing
and business statistics. Don't sell your degree short in this field. Do a
little research into the major electives available to you and how they may
apply to your own work.

You at UCR?

~~~
dmazin
I'm aware of my degree's utility. In fact, my next idea may require a lot more
math (graph theory, particularly, which is the case for most social stuff
today). However, I like learning being for the sake of learning and don't mind
pursuing a degree that I may not want to turn into a career - but if business
doesn't work out, I can always go into academia or industry.

I'm not at UCR. I'll be moving to Berkeley next Fall.

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michaelpinto
1\. I'd listen to some actual students and find out what the selling points
are to them, and do some A/B headline testing ("Pain-free grade calculation"
seems better than "Do you know what your grades are?")

2\. That url is terrible — you need the words "grade tracker" in it:
<http://www.wolf-howl.com/seo/how-to-choose-a-new-domain/>

3\. You should allow a signup via Facebook (especially for college kids)

4\. Maybe have a simple screenshot video instead of those stills?

~~~
dmazin
When I was starting out, I was so excited to do A/B testing. I was going to
A/B every word on every page. The truth of the matter is, A/B is worthless
when starting out because you need a hundred conversions or so for both A and
B to have statistical significance. I'm getting less than 20 visits per day,
but with a very good conversion rate, actually.

As for the URL - well, I'm not really into making a micro ISV/SEO-blatant
site.

Facebook sign up - I really should have that.

I have personally never clicked a landing page video. I think the only example
I know of it actually being a good decision is Dropbox. I want to see a
description with images and text (something my page lacks, really).

~~~
michaelpinto
1\. I don't mean A/B testing on the web — I mean in person. It's part of
figuring out your pitch — which is really figuring out what the site is.

2\. Having a good url is a form of communication, or branding. It took my over
a minute to understand what your site was — people start with the name of the
site and work their way down. If you hear of a url and don't get what the site
is off the bat you've failed before you've started.

3\. You need to learn what your personal preferences are don't matter — so
while geeks may like pictures and text normal people might not. Geeks loved
MS-DOS which is why Windows conquered the world...

~~~
dmazin
1\. Good point.

2\. I get your point, but are you talking about choosing something like
achievergradetracker.com for the primary URL?

3\. You have another good point, however I think that personal preference is
more important than people admit. If we didn't infuse some personal
preference, especially for aesthetics, into web design the whole web would
look like fucking infomercials, which probably convert like Jesus. I guess
that's kind of irrelevant as a video walkthrough is really something I have no
good reason for not trying.

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lylejohnson
Thankfully, I am long past the point where I have to worry about my GPA. But
there was absolutely a time in my life when I would have used something like
this, had it been available.

I _can_ tell you that my wife's a schoolteacher, and that her school system
has a web-based system where parents can log in and check on their kids'
grades. She has a lot of parents who check that site religiously. All that is
to say that while it may not be a "sexy" site, you've definitely hit on a
useful idea here. Good luck!

~~~
dmazin
Is it Moodle? There are already plenty of ways to check one's grades,
actually. Colleges often use Blackboard - although I think students and
professors alike would agree that using Blackboard is only a little bit better
than having cancer. I want to fill in the gap where there is no system offered
or it's incomplete, leaving students on their own. Of course, there are
already two players - Schoolhouse, a quite sexy (if over-featured) Mac app,
and some outdated online grade tracker.

~~~
lylejohnson
It's called iNow (or maybe STI iNow). Am having trouble finding a link for the
company because most of the Google search results are for various school
systems that have implemented iNow.

~~~
dmazin
Here it is: <http://www.sti-k12.com/publicsis1.asp>

Interestingly, I've had a family friend starting out as a teacher say that she
can't find a good, intuitive gradebook. Maybe there's a market for that as
well. I think it's fair to guess that this kind of software is made for
buyers, not teachers, and may not address their needs very well. I could be
totally wrong.

~~~
lylejohnson
> I think it's fair to guess that this kind of software is made for buyers,
> not teachers, and may not address their needs very well. I could be totally
> wrong.

No, you're spot on. She hates working with iNow, and we have yet to talk to a
teacher who likes working with it. Seems safe to assume that the buyer was
someone who will never have to use it.

~~~
dmazin
Seems to me like there's a pretty big, unserved market of teachers who want
good and intuitive course management tools. Maybe they're so ignored and
frustrated that they'd be willing to pay for such a tool that doesn't
completely suck.

------
exline
I think there is a viral angle. There were a group of friends at college, all
CS majors and we competed on our grades. We all wanted to one up each other.

I can see the ability to have a score board of some kind where you can share
your grades with friends. This could help spread the word a bit.

~~~
dmazin
I'm a little scared of being too social.

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myearwood
Why?

~~~
dmazin
The thing I'm scared of is being Zynga and asking people to share every little
thing and to congratulate others when they get good grades. To help the app
spread, I need to implement something social such as sharing grades, but I'm
going to be careful as to not go too far.

~~~
myearwood
Ok . I have a lot of respect for that approach.

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redrory
Hey, Firstly congrats. Getting your first app "out" is hard. You seemed to do
that with flying colors :)

What's the technology behind the site? Do you have a blog? I'll love to hear
more send me an email (my HN username at gmail.)

~~~
dmazin
Thanks!

I built it on Rails. After building out a good amount of functitonality in PHP
I decided to take a chance with Rails. Amazing decision as it was a huge
return for the time investment (45-ish hours to learn). I don't have a blog,
as blogs don't seem to have that much worth in terms of marketing unless they
are amazing. I'm opinionated, sure, but you can find most of those opinions on
Signal vs Noise :)

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naithemilkman
I think it looks sexy :)

Why won't you mention your 200 hours? Conversation killer with the chicks?

~~~
dmazin
Thanks! I really meant more that it's not a sexy idea. I don't mind the
internal design myself, although it could of course be better.

To be honest, I'd been refusing to take this project seriously until it had
some outside validation. Actually, I still don't call it a start up or
business as it's neither registered nor has a revenue.

------
dmazin
PS: clickable!: <http://www.getachiever.com>

------
Mz
I like it. I think you can find a way to make it viral. "Sexy" is a matter of
perception. I see no reason this can't become what the Cool Kids in College
all want. You need someone (like me) who is completely neurotic about their
grades and feels the need to call their sister and have a nervous breakdown
for 30 minutes because, gasp, my first grade on my first paper after returning
to college 8 years later was below a 95 (clearly the end of the world). This
person also needs to be someone that other people like/look up to/want to
emulate for some reason. (This was me at one time in some circles on the
internet where I got treated like a "rock star" and compared to one -- though
it definitely wasn't me in high school.) In some geeky circles, someone who is
smart and grade obsessed can also be someone "cool" that others are enthralled
by. Find those folks. If they will use it, others will use it.

Rather than sharing grades, I think I would find a means to share some measure
of what value the product brought. One possibility: Show that their grades
improve when they use this. Another possibility: Show that they stress less
about school now that they are clear where they stand at all times. Another
possible angle: Now that they are stressing less, they have more of a life
because they are clear what they need to do and can set aside the whole
obsessive grade focus on Friday night (or whatever) and have a little fun.
This last idea might need some additional support, like some kind of study
tracker/support tools in that regard. But that could be seen as a direction to
grow in.

Disclaimer: I'm only on here due to insomnia. If someone completely shoots me
down, listen to them instead. Its possible I'm incoherent. Thanks.

~~~
dmazin
Thanks so much for the kind feedback.

I do want to be able to show that students' GPAs improve after they sign up
for Achiever (although it could turn out that there is no correlation). As for
sharing that there is a possible improvement to Achiever, well, like you said
I'd have to think about a way to implement that.

