
Take a Look at the Crossrail Station Under Bond Street - edward
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/09/17/take-a-look-at-the-crossrail-station-under-bond-street/
======
rayiner
Crossrail is an incredible achievement by the British. $22 billion to build 26
miles of new track on a 73-mile train line, through some of the most expensive
real estate in the world, including 13 miles of tunnels underneath downtown
London. And delivered only two years late.

By contrast, New York’s second avenue subway will easily exceed Crossrail’s
$22 billion cost, if it’s ever finished. For that price New Yorkers will get
just 8.5 miles of downtown tunnels (versus Crossrail’s 13). And they won’t get
the additional dozen or so miles of new above ground commuter railroad that
Crossrail has managed to build for that price. Moreover, Crossrail started
somewhat later (2009 versus 2007), but will be done by 2020, while New York
will take until 2027-29 just to finish the first two phases totaling 3.5
miles. The remaining 5 miles may never be completed at this rate.

EDIT: As 'pcwalton correctly pointed out, about 2/3 of Crossrail's suburban
rail was pre-existing, so my per-mile cost for Crossrail was too low. It's
difficult to calculate the per-mile cost of new Crossrail track, because part
of the $22 billion budget involves upgrades to the 45-miles or so of existing
track and stations. But even assuming all that cost nothing, it's about $850
million per mile to build the new segments through downtown London. The
Maryland Purple Line, by contrast, is $350 million per mile to build light
rail on existing city streets through suburban Maryland. And the DC Silver
Line is about $300 million per mile to build heavy rail on existing, reserved
freeway medians through suburban and exurban Virginia.

~~~
switch007
An incredible achievement by London, for London, perhaps.

Meanwhile in North England...

Nope, not much to report.

We still have converted buses running on tracks, lack of electrification,
extremely short trains/platforms, and train companies often on the verge of
going bust (perhaps because everyone drives).

~~~
Symbiote
And, unfortunately, majority of people in the North of England blame the
European Union for this.

Edit: OK, the rather few people I know from the North are not representative.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Um, nope. Of all the many complaints I've heard against the EU, particularly
in the last 3 years, many are wrong. Yet I've never heard anyone up here
blaming the EU for the North and Scotland's public transport.

We almost entirely blame Westminster, all parties, and their London
exceptionalism. Some will still single out Mrs T.

I think it's reached triple the transport spending per head in London compared
to elsewhere. Then there's the subsidy of buses Thatcher permitted to continue
in London, but nowhere else. So the regions pay double or more what London
does on bus routes. West Coast main line electrification was put off for I
guess 50 years! The cross Pennine route is a sick joke, still running those
awful bus on rails trains. Those were supposed to be a 4-5 year, super-cheap
fill in. Ooh 30 or 40 years ago.

Crossrail? Sure, give it a blank cheque and immediately talk about crossrail
2.

Andy Burnham has had a fairly remarkable transition from Westminster Minister
after becoming mayor of Manchester. There's been a few enlightening media
pieces about him and public transport. Course now he vocally realises where
the problem is, he's no longer an MP...

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Judging by the way the North votes it seems it's mostly the Tories that get
the blame. Which creates a vicious circle as why would the Tories do anything
for a region that doesn't vote for them anyway.

~~~
switch007
It goes much deeper than that. If we all voted for them they would still do
nothing for us as I didn’t go to Eton, my uncle isn’t a viscount, I don’t own
land and have no membership at any gentleman’s club.

You can judge how interested they are by their manifestos. They’re targeted
towards their existing voters and rarely make any promises for infrastructure
in the North.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
They talked about the Northern Powerhouse for a few weeks. That's our lot for
this decade.

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crispyporkbites
Crossrail is a MASSIVE project. It's actually really impressive that it's
getting delivered at all. I hope we see a lot more of these large scale
projects - they don't just change commutes and travel, they change places and
lives.

~~~
isostatic
Crossrail has added billions to land values (and thus house prices) along the
route. This is a wealth transfer from income tax payers to land owners.

Income tax payers are already at breaking point - especially those who don't
own land.

Don't expect many more "rob from the poor to give to the rich" schemes until
tax is reformed.

~~~
blibble
the expensive bit is the tunnel and stations under central london where there
aren't any houses

~~~
isostatic
That's not really the point.

1) Crossrail cost billions

2) Income tax payers in the UK had to pay for that

3) Income tax payers have had enough and don't want to pay for infrastructure
that benefits others

Those who benefitted the most? The land owners in London who have made
billions

If the price increases -- the portion solely due to crossrail -- was taxed at
42% like income, then there would be far more money available for useful
projects (like crossrail)

Therefore the OPs hope ("I hope we see a lot more of these large scale
projects") would be answered

~~~
crispyporkbites
> Income tax payers have had enough and don't want to pay for infrastructure
> that benefits others

Had enough? What does that mean exactly?

The people who will benefit from crossrail the most are the main income tax
payers who go to work every day on the tube. Salaries in London are 2-3x
higher than outside and income tax gets disproportionately higher the more you
earn.

Can you imagine if the tube was never built because it would benefit rich
landowners in London more than other people?

~~~
pjc50
Large parts of the Tube and UK rail network were built privately before the
20th century. Most of them lost money and consolidated before nationalisation.

~~~
isostatic
Quite. The metropolitan railway was funded buy buying cheap land, building
rail to it, then profiting from the increase in that value.

That no longer happens.

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Shivetya
The noise dampening efforts are the most interesting to me. They mentioned to
fan noise as still being very noticeable with efforts to minimize the impact
on those living in the surrounding areas. My question is, is that hard to mask
the noise of fans?

~~~
codeulike
The fans are pretty huge

[https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/06/10/cooling-the-
tube...](https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/06/10/cooling-the-tube-
engineering-heat-out-of-the-underground/)

------
malandrew
What's fascinating about reading this is the parallels to technical debt and
slowdowns in large software ecosystems within mature and maturing companies.

This would be a good read for someone non-technical to better understand
similar software engineering challenges because a rail station and the delays
described are far easier for a layperson to relate to.

