
Iroquois Nationals, barred from World Games, gave gift of lacrosse to the world - YeGoblynQueenne
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-monday-edition-1.5664460/iroquois-nationals-barred-from-world-games-say-their-people-gave-gift-of-lacrosse-to-the-world-1.5664618
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manc_lad
I've played against the Iroquois nationals in three world championships. while
very bruising they are fabulously creative on the field, really a joy to play
and watch and lacrosse runs through their blood.

Lacrosse is not the same without them since they formed their first national
team. I would suggest watching Spirit Game: pride of a nation
([https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5195438/](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5195438/))
that captures some of their history.

The film also follows the 2015 world indoor lacrosse championships. this was
the first international tournament played on Iroquois land. Al Gore and Jim
Brown (the latter having played lacrosse at college) both attended to watch
the finals and dine with all the players.

The lacrosse community are behind their inclusion.

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SamReidHughes
Gore's kids played lacrosse as well, at a fairly competitive level in high
school.

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manc_lad
Didn't know. thanks for sharing.

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jcranmer
The case of the Iroquois and lacrosse is really the only case I'm aware of
where the issue of indigenous peoples being represented under their own nation
would actually make a meaningful difference in how competitions would go.

Naturally, the Iroquois have used this to drive some more publicity for their
sovereignty claims--in particular, they insist on using their passports when
traveling internationally. While I'm sure the US and Canadian governments
aren't happy about this, they have both ultimately said "yes, we will let them
back in on these passports."

Their exclusion here appears to be because Olympic rules are that dependent
nations are not allowed to to participate under their own flag, except those
that had an existing committee 30 years ago. I think those rules are a
mistake, and the organizers here should override those rules to let the
Iroquois compete. If (perhaps when) lacrosse becomes an Olympic sport, this
issue is going to become even more important, and I would hope that both the
US and Canada would campaign to admit the Iroquois as nation in its own right
when playing in the Olympics.

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afarrell
If the Wales or Scotland (to say nothing of the united island of Ireland) can
field rugby teams in Six Nations, why _cant_ the Iroquois field a team?

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twic
AIUI, the lacrosse equivalent of the Six Nations is the World Lacrosse
Championship, where the Iroquois fielded a team - as did the Scots:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_World_Lacrosse_Championsh...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_World_Lacrosse_Championship#Participating_Nations)

The Iroquois beat the Scots 14–7.

The World Games is sort of the Olympics' El Ocho - a competition between
national teams in sports that aren't quite big enough to be in the Olympics.
As such, they follow the Olympics' principles for recognising entrants, which
require entrants to be states, rather than just nations (mostly [1]). Hence,
neither the Iroquois nor the Scots get to enter a team of their own (in
Olympic rugby sevens, Scots are part of the GB team).

So, the Iroquois don't get to enter a team in the World Games, despite
inventing the sport. The Scots don't get to enter a golf team for the Olympics
either.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Olympians_at_the_O...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Olympians_at_the_Olympic_Games)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taipei_at_the_Olympics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taipei_at_the_Olympics)

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dundarious
The whole island of Ireland plays in the Rugby World Cup as well.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_at_the_Rugby_World_Cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_at_the_Rugby_World_Cup)

I wouldn't know if the relevant World Lacross bodies are modeled on the
Olympics or not, but other models certainly exist.

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emptybits
In the context of lacrosse, it's sad that a First Nations team wouldn't be
welcome to compete, since they are arguably closer to the game and more
passionate about it than any other nation.

Fun fact, for those unfamiliar with lacrosse: Canada has two national sports:
hockey is our national winter sport, while lacrosse is our national summer
sport.[1] Most Canadians have probably still never played it, which is a shame
because it's at least as amazing to watch or play as hockey. Field or box.

[1] [https://laws-
lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/N-16.7/page-1.html](https://laws-
lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/N-16.7/page-1.html)

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drocer88
World Games? Never heard of this. Olympic qualifying requirements?

The real Lacrosse world championship is World Lacrosse Championship (
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Lacrosse_Championship#20...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Lacrosse_Championship#2018_Championship)
) where Iroquois punch above their weight.

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evgen
> World Games? Never heard of this. Olympic qualifying requirements?

It is apparently an Olympics for sports that do not yet make the cut for the
Olympics. Thus the rather specific qualifying requirements.

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finnh
This John McPhee article about lacrosse is wonderful, for anyone who's
interested: [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/03/23/spin-right-
and...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/03/23/spin-right-and-shoot-
left)

~~~
kart23
Great piece, thanks for sharing. It makes me want to dig up my old gear and
start playing again.

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
It seems that this is due to questions about sovereignty. However, Puerto Rico
has competed in the Olympics since 1948, even though it is a territory of the
United States and its residents are citizens of the United States, and travel
internationally under US Passports. It seems the Haudenosaunee who travel
under their own passports have at least as good a claim to sovereignty as
Puerto Rico and should be allowed to compete.

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s1artibartfast
A similar argument could be made with Taiwan which competes in the olympics.

That said I’m not sure that many countries actually acknowledge the
haudenosaunee passports

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blahedo
Just off the top of my head, I was able to think of not just Puerto Rico and
Taiwan, but also Palestine and Kosovo, as examples of "interesting edge cases"
when it comes to sovereignty, national recognition, and Olympic participation.
Kosovo and Palestine, at least, aren't in there because of a 30-year
grandfathering, and their recognition is far from universal; the IOC or the
IWGA would certainly be able to accept a Haudenosaunee team if they were so
inclined.

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andrewxdiamond
The Haudenosaunee (incorrectly referred to as the Iroquois) have a fascinating
and complex legal system. This video explained the system and how it came to
be. Highly recommend for anyone interested in legal systems or history in
general

[https://youtu.be/S4gU2Tsv6hY](https://youtu.be/S4gU2Tsv6hY)

~~~
jcranmer
> The Haudenosaunee (incorrectly referred to as the Iroquois)

As far as I'm aware, Iroquois is considered an acceptable name for
Haudenosaunee, much as the country known to its inhabitants as Magyarország is
known to the rest of the world by a name that is not anything close to that.

Note that the men's team is the Iroquois Nationals, but the women's team is
the Haudenosaunee women's team.

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duxup
The article makes it sound like they might still get in?

