

Form letter response for engineering recruiting emails - bryanduxbury
http://bryanduxbury.com/2013/07/17/form-letter-response-for-engineering-recruiters/

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gcb0
You guys, as good engineers, completely misses the subtle point.

They are not after you. Or the best. Those would never work for them anyway.

They are after the unwashed masses that would fall for that. That fall
everyday for a car salesman pressing them for the more expensive model.

We all are just percentage error for those people. And they couldn't care
less.

~~~
eksith
I think this really hits the point. Since the vast majority of these are no
different from spam (in fact, I'm convinced some percentage may be from
reengineered spam software), it's those that actually respond that they have a
hope of snagging.

It's entirely possible that these recruiters are paid by how many actually
respond, not how many are worth hiring. I.E. Spammers send thousands of emails
and if even one sale was generated, then it was worth it as it costs them so
little in the first place.

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joezydeco
[] You didn't include the name of the company that is hiring, but I pasted
your job description into Google and found the company and position in ten
seconds. And no, I'm not interested in working for them, especially since they
just laid off 2,000 people.

------
trimbo
So true.

My take, in my role as VP engineering at Radius, I have _hand-written every
recruiting email I 've ever sent_. No template. I personalize it to you.

A lot of people discard it as spam, or don't accept the in-mail, or whatever.
I understand, but at least on the off chance they read it, I know I tried my
best and showed legit interest.

Sad that recruiters don't take the time to do such a thing, but it's often a
pure numbers game for them. They get paid based on this stuff, just like sales
people, and they just crunch through.

~~~
mh-
for what it's worth- I always try to reply to hand-written emails that
demonstrate the sender took time to read about me, even though I'm only
responding to simply say thanks for reaching out.

on the flipside, I instantly trash anything that looks template-ish or
shotgun-approach.

------
mikekij
We're so lucky to be in an industry where our biggest problem is too many
people trying to hire us. Thank god I'm not an auto worker.

~~~
noelwelsh
Exactly. The good times are not going to last forever. Then we'll see how
happy the recruiters are to talk to you if you've been an arrogant arse in the
past.

~~~
gpsarakis
(good) Software Engineer demand isn't likely to drop in the future I assume.
Except if Skynet takes over and writes code by itself.

~~~
Kudos
There are two sides to supply and demand.

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benawabe896
Why is there not some way to disrupt this industry??? It is maddening that
these people even exist. How is normal to take 35% of someone's salary for 6
months because you got to them first at the right time? How is it ethical to
whittle a starry eyed junior down to 30 bucks an hour so you can take 60 or 70
plus? There has to be a way simpler way to connect folks to jobs in this day
and age. </rant> ...Sorry, it just gets to me every once in a while.

Also, loved the letter, it's great.

~~~
pc86
$30 an hour is about $60,000 a year which is a pretty good starting salary. An
amazing one in my part of the country where $45k is the average just-out-
school salary.

And all the recruiters I've dealt with are paid a flat fee by the hiring
company, they don't take a percentage of pay. Then again I've never worked
directly for a recruiting agency, either.

~~~
benawabe896
I definitely understand the sentiment in this comment, but if 60k annual is a
good salary, think about 120k annually for just being a parasitic worm
recruiter. Most folks at that "30 buck" rate have no idea that the employers
would pay then much higher directly, and merely assume that the recruiter just
took a flat fee. When it's understood that the recruiter took a percentage of
the income, and that said percentage equates to double what the employee is
actually getting paid... that's when the hatred starts.

~~~
pc86
I don't see how comparing the salary of developers and recruiters is any more
meaningful than comparing the salary of college professors and plumbers or the
Weis stock boy and a junior VC associate.

If someone has been getting offers and interviews for $60k positions and a
recruiter can get them an $80k position, what does it matter to the developer
if the recruiter gets $20, $40 or even $80k on top of that? I think with the
right incentives recruiting can help everyone involved. The problem is when
the incentives aren't aligned. If a company is giving Recruiter A $100k to
find a developer no matter what, A's incentive is to push the developer's
salary as low as possible. If Recruiter B gets a lump sum of 50% of the first
year salary, B is going to fight for an extra few thousand dollars on my
bottom line.

I'm on the opposite side of the country so it's very possible the recruiters
in the Valley are leeches like they appear to be based on the general
consensus on HN. My experience with them has been varied, from the former
classmate with a degree in Fine Art suddenly trying to learn the difference
between Java and JavaScript to someone who actually knows what they're talking
about.

------
alinajaf
Here's mine:

 _Hi there,_

 _Please remove all data pertaining to myself or Happy Bear Software from your
systems and refrain from contacting me again. Any future correspondence
including a reply to this email will be reported as spam._

 _Kind Regards,_

Honestly, a developer who's taken a flick through a book about sales and
marketing (e.g. Ultimate Sales Machine) would do a fantastically better job of
selling recruitment services (at both ends) than 99.99% of recruiters.

~~~
tehwalrus
I once tried this with a recruiter, and they got very testy with me in a new
email, accusing _me_ of wasting _their_ time. ha ha ha. needless to say, I did
not respond further.

~~~
alinajaf
I get that all the time. I politely remind them that I made a commitment to
report their reply as spam, so it would be unethical of me not to.

Never engage with them directly. They're a time sink, and they never have your
interests at heart. I manage all comms with them through gmail canned
responses.

------
WestCoastJustin
_Your request that we start with a “quick call” shows a clear disregard for
the work style of engineers_

The _" quick call"_ line resonates with me. I've had a couple of these
interactions lately, and in my minds eye, I just picture someone [me] walking
onto a used car lot and a sales person [recruiter] is trying hard to sell me,
when I really just want to look around. Leads to an awkward interaction.

------
brendoncrawford
First world problems: "I get too many job opportunities from recruiters."

There are a lot of people right now who would be thrilled to receive these
emails from recruiters, and would reply to every one. Why burn the bridge with
a snarky response? Maybe one day you could be one of those people.

~~~
awkward
You burn the bridge because you want a moat between yourself and these people.

Having humility when your job is in demand is good, but most of the practices
indicated in the article indicate recruiters that are either unhelpful or
actively harmful.

For example - there are recruiting firms who will submit your resume without
telling you where, and play it off like it's common practice (which it is, but
only among assholes.) This puts you in a bind where if a company recieves your
resume through another source, they may have conflicting legal obligations
attached to both sources, causing your resume to go in the garbage. Many
recruiters do this, but plenty do not. Only work with the second kind.

The other checkboxes indicate carelessness, trawling, spamming, and other less
than great features. Take it or leave it, but ask yourself if that's the kind
of person you want to work with.

~~~
antjanus
Definitely true. More than once has my resume ended up several times over at
the same company, causing me to "drop out of the race". Why? Because
recruiters either did not mention the company or could not disclose the name
of the company.

I've learned not to rely solely on recruiters either so in the end, the only
recruiters I feel like are justified to work with are recruiters hired
specifically by a company, meaning that they represent the company and the
company won't deal with anyone outside of that.

------
philip1209
I love this. I modified it for my own use:

[https://draftin.com/documents/95708?token=uf_BIHiv8xAonKejRl...](https://draftin.com/documents/95708?token=uf_BIHiv8xAonKejRl8FIdvTEeyVOMuVaTWaqUns7MnWCbaREFqfpryXCUN1eJJ6EUPurY3NI1-W-9pmdoDbb7A)

~~~
Ecio78
quick note for you: in your hn profile you say "graduating May 2013".
According to the about on your site
[http://www.philipithomas.com/about/](http://www.philipithomas.com/about/) you
graduated in May, but on your cv site
[http://cv.philipithomas.com/](http://cv.philipithomas.com/) you say "I
graduate this month" and in education you say "expected 5/13"

If you finally graduated, it's time to update all the info :-)

~~~
philip1209
Whoops, thanks. I'll update the profile now. Because I'm not seeking work,
I've been a little lazy with my CV.

~~~
Ecio78
np, because _I_ am actually seeking work, I've been overly active on my CV and
so I was looking for inspiration :) (or :( if we want to consider that i've
not found anything yet..)

------
pc86
While I agree with the general purpose and tone of the email, recruiters are
not always a negative. I responded to cold "call" on LinkedIn a few years ago
and it got me the (good) job I have today.

------
tocomment
I've gotten a couple customized recruiting emails recently where they actually
looked up my background and thoughtfully explained they the position would be
a great fit.

I was impressed, and I figured the least I could do is write back and ask for
more information. Well, it's been two weeks and I haven't heard back from
either person! It's almost like the twilight-light zone. Why spend all that
time researching and writing to someone only to never respond again?

~~~
joezydeco
My hunch is that the recruiter got an answer from someone sooner than you and
is pushing that one candidate hard, leaving you as a backup if that other
person doesn't work out. They're always hedging their bets.

------
pbiggar
You realize that if you do this, you might actually help them be better
recruiters.

I just mark them all as spam.

~~~
ronaldx
Relevant xkcd for this comment: [http://xkcd.com/810/](http://xkcd.com/810/)

------
blisterpeanuts
I get a lot of recruitment spam from India based companies. In fact it seems
as though they've taken over the low end of the market. Typically they open
with a vague description of a position that "matches your qualifications",
then ask for a set of answers including number of years of experience in ten
skills and my expected rate.

This approach to recruitment may work for some segments of the market, but
it's pointless for me. I used to actually respond to such inquiries when the
market was very slow and I was getting desperate, but they almost never
followed up, so I stopped wasting my time.

------
hgupta
I share your exasperation and agree that while I hold back such emotions,
sometimes I am tempted to reply back in a bit offensive manner. And I have
never replied to any such mails in past, not doing it in present, nor I am
inclined to do this in future.

But I cannot agree with your second point in Additionally section. The
recruiters are doing their jobs, whether or not just sending cold emails. They
are not obligated to understand or even know the 'work style of engineers'.

~~~
Robin_Message
> They are not obligated to understand or even know the 'work style of
> engineers'.

Salespeople (which is effectively what recruiters are) are not obligated to
know anything about their product or customers. But it can really help.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Salespeople (which is effectively what recruiters are) are not obligated to
> know anything about their product or customers. But it can really help._

Maybe they aren't, but the degree to which one understands the product one is
selling is the degree I treat them as a helpful person instead of lying,
malicious fraud. If you don't understand anything about the product you're
selling, then every single word you utter in favour of it is a blatant lie.

------
sadkingbilly
Always insist on them providing the company name. Most won't provide this
without a fight, because they're either paranoid of other recruiters scalping
their leads or they feel it's the only leverage they have over you. The ones
that do give the company name are either naive or trustful, in the latter
case, they deserve some attention.

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steven777400
I don't know whether I should care (+ or -) that I've only once had a
recruiter contact me. I don't mind the contact, but it seems like it would be
tiresome to deal with frequent contact from multiple sources. I suppose it
could also be an ego boost as well.

------
jzawodn
Yes.

