
Facts about migration and crime in Sweden - teddyh
http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/
======
otalp
According to the official statistics on The Swedish Crime Survey, the sexual
violence rate in Sweden remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. The
refugee crisis began around 2014, and since then, the rates for sexual
violence _went down_ in 2015[1] something you never see mentioned on certain
parts of the internet. 2016 saw an increase in crimes, but still less than
pre-immigration levels in 2014.

Also the Swedish national council for crime prevention expected this rise over
the last few years because in 2013(before there was a serious influx of
migrants) Sweden broadened the definition of rape. A similar increase in crime
was seen around 2006 because of 'legislative changes' about how things were
recorded.

In the US research on the link between immigration and crime largely find no
link between the two[2], and of the relative minority of studies that find a
link, there are twice as many studies that find that increased migration
reduces crime as the reverse.

In Germany, refugees are less likely to commit a crime than the average
citizen[3]. From the publicly available information it is impossible to
conclude with certainty that taking in refugees increases crime, especially
considering that the _vast majority_ of 'crimes' they do commit are non-
violent things like not travelling with a ticket.[3]

What is rarely mentioned is the increasing crimes committed against refugees
in refugee camps. In germany, there were 1,029 attacks against refugee
residences in 2015, following 199 in 2014. Attacks _on_ refugees increase the
crime rate themselves.

[1]-[https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-
statist...](https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-
statistics/rape-and-sex-offences.html)

[2]-([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#United_S...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#United_States)).

[3]-[https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-
less...](https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less-crimes-
than-germans/)

~~~
polack
It's totally irrelevant that the crimes has decreased. The point is that a
majority of all violence and sexual crimes is performed by immigrants (as
confirmed by Sweden's most famous crime professor GW a couple of days ago).

Why are you so afraid to see that immigrants are over represented in this
category of crimes?

~~~
gaff33
They talk about it in the article

> People from foreign backgrounds are suspected of crimes more often than
> people from a Swedish background [...] In a later study, researchers at
> Stockholm University showed that the main difference in terms of criminal
> activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to
> differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden.

So it seems that whilst immigrants are suspected of more crimes than average,
they commit the same amount of crime as poor deprived members of indigenous
populations.

~~~
edblarney
"the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and
others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic
conditions in which they grew up in Sweden."

This is a classic red-herring.

'They were poor therefore they have bad behaviours'.

The failure of the logic is the assumption of correlation/causation.

One might argue that 'bad behaviour will lead one to being poor'.

I have no doubt that immigrants from Somalia will have a harder time than
'Sven Swede' growing up. At the same time, there are some truly terrible
behaviours among specific immigrant groups.

This is the hardest part: the pro and anti immigrant camps are speaking past
each other.

Important note: For some reason, ethnic minorities in Europe are considerably
more marginalized then they are in the US - it's completely different.

Europe has a 'strong social safety net' \- and 'social policy' of welfare etc.
- BUT - they have very strong sense of ethnic identity, and very close social
circles. A young Somalian may have very few Swedish friends.

In the US - people are far more gregarious and open personally. It's nothing
to see a table of people of different ethnic backgrounds - but the social
safety net is usually much weaker, no health insurance etc..

I live in Montreal, we have a good chunk of Muslims. They don't look too 'out
of place'. You can't tell they are Muslim by looking. They could be Indian,
Southern Italian, Greek.

But go to Belgium - the various Muslim communities are distinct, and ethnic
identity is obvious. I've never seen a Burqa in Montreal, and Hijab not too
often. In Belgium they are all over. Muslims live in 'broad areas' in
Montreal, but in Belgium very specific communities.

It's a little bit of a mystery to me but I think it has everything to do with
'very traditional and conservative' social culture in Europe - even though
paradoxically they are 'intellectually liberal'. Example: if you drink with a
nice, well educated, open minded and kind Belgian - you may hear an 'African
joke'. It's not considered as racist as it would be in America. Yet the
Belgian will likely be more supportive of giving refuge and social services to
the Africans than the average American. It's weird.

Sweden has a notorious degree of censorship in their press - they self-censor
to control information in terms of what they 'deem is best for Sweden'. They
will absolutely suppress information if it may cause some populist sentiment.
It's just part of their culture.

The problem, of course, is that by suppressing real dialogue, then the loudest
and craziest right-wing voices are the one's that get hard, and they cause a
fuss, which is bad, and it may come to a breaking point.

I suggest that more transparency on the issues would be better for all
involved.

~~~
usrusr
Taking about Belgium, I often suspect that they have an extra level of
difficulty there due to the bifurcated national identity. What identity could
newcomers assimilate into? You won't be particularly drawn to feeling
Wallonian if you live in Brussels speaking French and even less to feeling
Flandrian. I guess there isn't much Belgianness left if you are neither, so
people are more or less predispositioned to stick to whatever parody of their
original background they can still piece together.

I sense a similar difficulty in my native Germany, where so much of the
current national identity is defined by feeling bad for something your
grandparents maybe did (or by violently refusing to do so), that the absence
of it in non-descendants of that generation is causing a noticeable "identity
gap" even generations after immigration. This kind of stuff causes zero
problems for those who have goals and education and achievement, but everybody
else occasionally leans on group identity and will take whatever fits best.

P.S. I've actually come tho think that whatever ridiculous (from the German
perspective, yes, totally ridiculous, if not outright scary) business
Americans do with flags does serve a purpose after all. It gives both
established and new Americans confidence that the new ones can belong, easing
the process for everyone involved.

~~~
edblarney
Agree on Belgian. Belgian is a 'nation' but the ethnic identity is Walloon or
Flemish.

I live in Montreal and immigrants have the same problem: English or French?
There is a 3rd category here (we use linguistic categories) - called
'Allophone' \- meaning essentially neither English nor French, but 'multi' or
'something else'.

Despite the self-loathing of the past few generations - Germans are generally
very German. A flag is a national symbol, not an ethnic one. Even the Nazis
didn't use the flag of Germany - totally unnecessary!

'American' is not an ethnicity. All Americans have is the 'idea' of America.
Which is represented by the flag.

In a way - 'nationalism' is more essential and necessary in a place like
America.

Germany would be German with or without even the state of Germany.

America would disintegrate without national symbols.

In Canada - we are less nationalist because we are a British colony. Canadians
had British passports up until very recently, just before I was born!

Mass migration is a new issue for Germany though - if it were just a few
immigrants, it would be a non-issue. But the sheer scale of it makes it an
existential issue, one that is akin to changing the Constitution - in fact -
even stronger. A constitution can always be re-written. A nation can be
rebuilt. But once a people decide that they are a 'nation' but _not_ an
ethnicity - and 'go multicultural' \- there is no going back. I think that's a
decision that should require a 'supermajority' vote type thing, not a decision
made, de-facto in a 'crisis' policy by Merkel & Co. - obvious humanitarian
issues notwithstanding.

------
trendia
The way this is worded is weird:

Claim: "In Sweden there are a number of 'no-go zones' where criminality and
gangs have taken over and where the emergency services do not dare to go."

Facts: No. In a report published in February 2016, the Swedish Police
Authority identified 53 residential areas around the country that have become
increasingly marred by crime, social unrest and insecurity. These places have
been incorrectly labelled 'no-go zones'. What is true, however, is that in
several of these areas the police have experienced difficulties fulfilling
their duties; but it is not the case that the police do not go to them or that
Swedish law does not apply there

~~~
koonsolo
Same as in Belgium then. They even throw stones at fire-fighters when they are
doing their job. So nothing to worry about, right?

And I don't know if it is the same in Sweden, but you are not really
politically allowed to say what kind of people live in those neighborhoods. So
again, nothing to worry about.

~~~
rmc
> _Same as in Belgium then. They even throw stones at fire-fighters when they
> are doing their job. So nothing to worry about, right?_

Who reports that people do that? Tabloid newspapers? They've been lying about
that for decades.

After the 1989 Hillsbourogh disaster (where people died due to health & safety
issues, and negligence from the police), tabloid newspaper _The Sun_ wrote a
full page headline accusing Liverpool fans of attacking police who were trying
to save people. It was a complete fabrication.

"Those people" attacking our police/first responders is a common lie that
sells tabloid newspapers.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#The_Sun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#The_Sun)

~~~
interfixus
In your Twitter account, you seem ready enough to admit the reality of
political violence, and even to commend it. (Retweet: "If US folks wanna see
more nazi punching, just look at the attempted Pegida rally last year in
Dublin. alt-hugs given freely")

~~~
ue_
I personally agree with him, I can't see the problem.

~~~
tomp
To avoid misunderstanding, are you saying that it's acceptable to physically
assault people because of their opinion, or do you "agree" with something
else?

~~~
ue_
>To avoid misunderstanding, are you saying that it's acceptable to physically
assault people because of their opinion

Of course it depends on the opinion, but I see nothing wrong with it in
principle.

------
Claudus
The level of government level censorship in Sweden is concerning. Maybe
worries over negative reaction in the native population are used to justify
hiding crime statistics, but I think it will lead to a violent backlash
eventually.

It's shocking to me that "grenade attacks" have virtually become an every day
occurrence.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_S...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden)

Refugee centers have already been burned down in several instances, and anti-
migrant sentiment is growing.

I really don't see how the large scale immigration going on in a Europe is
going to result in a positive result, at least in short term over the next few
generations.

I think it's incredibly irresponsible to encourage migration without being
able provide productive meaningful lives to the migrants. People are not pets.

~~~
ForRealsies
>[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_S...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden)

CTRL+F "device" and you'll find 16 occurrences.

These are IEDs. This is terrorism. Where did they learn to make them?

~~~
krona
They didn't make them. They bought them from the Yugoslav mafia around the
corner.

It's the same with the anti-tank mines (I'm not even joking.)

------
tdkl
Swedish source confirms Swedish political narrative, very trust worthy. /s

Let's go and convince all the victims of crimes in recent years that they're
just imaginging things and they're safer then ever. And hand out more "don't
grope me" bracelets for extra protection[1].

[1] [http://www.thelocal.se/20160629/swedish-police-to-hand-
out-a...](http://www.thelocal.se/20160629/swedish-police-to-hand-out-anti-
groping-armbands)

[edit] Classic HN, don't forget to upvote the guy who says physically
assaulting people with different opinions is OK.[2] Sounds tolerant and
progressive.

Ban my account, but the comments can stay for exposing your collective
hypocrisy for the future. Goodbye.

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13723296](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13723296)

~~~
maaaats
> _Let 's go and convince all the victims of crimes in recent years that
> they're just imaginging things and they're safer then ever._

No one has said crimes haven't happened. Your post is a giant straw man.

~~~
tdkl
Well honestly I don't even care what happens in Sweden, because they're
responsible for themselves. Their case will be an example for the whole EU
soon enough.

I do know that I won't support the same policy in my country though, because
just avoiding the risk of such crimes is with a measure like this is worth
enough.

------
Claudus
A Swedish Police Officer ranted on Facebook about crime and migration in
Sweden a few weeks ago.

[https://www.facebook.com/peter.springare/posts/1020830068234...](https://www.facebook.com/peter.springare/posts/10208300682343230?pnref=story)

Translation: _I 'm so fucking tired. What I will write here below, is not
politically correct. But I don't care. What I'm going to promote you all
taxpayers is prohibited to peddle for us state employees. That tends to drive
in a non-career and non-individual pay. Even though it's true. I don't care
about all of this, will soon still retire after 47 years in this activity. I
will now and every week to explain in detail what for employing me as
investigators / investigator on coarse mcu police in örebro. It's not going to
be good with the opinion or other leftist kriminologers perception in the
general debate.

Our pensioners is on its knees, the school's a mess, healthcare is an inferno,
the police have totalhavererat etc etc. We all know why but no one dare or
wants to peddle the reason, due to the fact that Sweden always lived on the
myth of prudes ultimate society who have osinnliga resources to be at the
forefront when it comes to be the only politically correct option in a
dysfunctional world that beats Knot on their own by destructive behavior in
different name of. Here we go; this I've handled Monday-Friday this week:
rape, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, rape-assault and rape, extortion,
blackmail, off of, assault, violence against police, threats to police, drug
crime, drugs, crime, felony, attempted murder, Rape again, extortion again and
ill-treatment.

Suspected perpetrators; Ali Mohammed, mahmod, Mohammed, Mohammed Ali, again,
again, again Christopher... what is it true. Yes a Swedish name snuck on the
outskirts of a drug crime, Mohammed, Mahmod Ali, again and again.

Countries representing the weekly all crimes: Iraq, Iraq, Turkey, Syria,
Afghanistan, Somalia, Somalia, Syria again, Somalia, unknown, unknown country,
Sweden. Half of the suspects, we can't be sure because they don't have any
valid papers. Which in itself usually means that they're lying about your
nationality and identity.

Now we're talking just örebro municipality. And these crimes occupies our
utredningsförmåga to 100 %.

So it looks here and has been like for the past 10-15 years.

Return next Friday with a statement for the past week 🇸🇪_

~~~
oytis
The two statements: 1\. "Immigration doesn't lead to increase in crime rate".
2\. "Most criminal offences are committed by immigrants". dont't contradict
each other. It may well be that immigrants push locals out of criminal
business, because they are now the most poor and discriminated. That means
that if you somehow decrease immigration rate, the business will be taken by
Swedes again.

~~~
ng12
Did you just refer to sexual assault as a business?

~~~
oytis
No, but the logic in the same. People closer to the bottom of social hierarchy
are more prone to sexual assaults. Immigrants just occupied social niche that
was previosly occupied by poorest locals.

~~~
ng12
And your argument is that the poor locals became less poor after the
immigrants started arriving?

------
barking
It's a bit simplistic to speak only about migrants.

In the case of Islamic terrorism, I've heard it commented that recruits come
from the children of migrants rather than the migrants themselves. This
certainly seemed to borne out by the London 7/7 bombers and the Charlie Hebdo
attackers to name two cases.

Prison populations in western countries also seem to have disproportionate
numbers of ethnic minorities.

I also heard that Canada refuses to break down crime figures by ethnicity/race
as a matter of public policy. If that is true it seems that there is a fear
that the figures might look bad for minorities.

In the interests of community harmony, authorities commonly seem to want to
accentuate the positive and sweep any negativity under the rug.

~~~
koonsolo
This political correctness can have a serious backswing when people go to
vote. As we have seen in US, and as we will see in Europe.

~~~
jl6
I understand that one motivation behind not providing crime breakdowns by
ethnicity is to avoid providing information that might be used without context
to justify hate.

But it is also a little racist to try to hide the problem, as if criminality
is inherent to the ethnicity and cannot be solved, so may as well be ignored.

~~~
DarkKomunalec
But pointing out the positive statistics of immigrants (e.g.
[https://hbr.org/2016/10/immigrants-play-a-
disproportionate-r...](https://hbr.org/2016/10/immigrants-play-a-
disproportionate-role-in-american-entrepreneurship) ) - is okay?

Ignore the data supporting one side of the debate, and of course the other
side will seem more convincing.

------
demonshalo
I would personally recommend you follow
[https://twitter.com/ArgBlatteTalar](https://twitter.com/ArgBlatteTalar). He
breaks down all the hypocrisy regarding this particular topic in his videos on
YouTube. Sources for his video material can be found in the description box.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1_viPSD-
bY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1_viPSD-bY)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lsoZ0uDOGY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lsoZ0uDOGY)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Qwr6KvmUc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Qwr6KvmUc)

~~~
epsylon
Yep, that guy totally seems like a reasonable and unbiased POV:
[https://twitter.com/ArgBlatteTalar/status/831600862866898954](https://twitter.com/ArgBlatteTalar/status/831600862866898954)

~~~
soundwave106
You are getting downvotes for this?

Most of the tweets I see from this account are either rabble-rousing ("And
that's because migrants are nothing but voter cattle for the Left"; "Share
this video and help me reveal the immense hipocrisy of our "feminist" Swedish
government.") or complaints about media in general (from the Trump style media
conspiracy angle to thoughts on how Youtube is banning him because he didn't
get as many watches as a Tucker Carson video.)

If you share the same world view as the Swedish Democrats, you'll probably
agree with this person's viewpoint. If you don't, you probably won't.

------
giis
Wikileaks: Swedish media admits to censoring stories for the last five years
on migrant crime

[https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/688999781193117696?lang...](https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/688999781193117696?lang=en)

~~~
r3bl
How many times can this get posted? Do people who post it read the actual
translation before sending it further down the rabbit hole?

There's a single mention of the word "immigration" in the article. It has
absolutely no mentions of "migrant crime", as WikiLeaks claims in its tweet.

The only thing that the article says about immigration is that an anonymous
journalist "can't be bothered" to talk about sensitive migration issues.

Calling that "Swedish media admitting to censoring stories" is as far fetched
as it can be.

~~~
soundwave106
It's unfortunately been sad watching Wikileaks transform into a pure political
outlet...

------
redsummer
It's not true that Muslim immigrants are not integrating with modern
technologically-literate Sweden. Many are making increasingly sophisticated
use of social media: [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/sweden-facebook-
gang...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/sweden-facebook-gang-rape-
live-streamed-men-court-a7548371.html)

~~~
vixen99
This is an example of 'sophistication' ?

------
booleandilemma
Relevant WSJ article:

Trump Is Right: Sweden’s Embrace of Refugees Isn’t Working
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-right-swedens-
embrace-...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-right-swedens-embrace-of-
refugees-isnt-working-1487807010)

~~~
worldsayshi
Written by the leaders of Sweden's "alt-right" (for lack of better name) party
the Sweden Democrats.

~~~
johansch
They are however much, much more sane than the US alt-right. At least at the
top level.

Out of the eight parties currently represented in the Swedish parliament they
are currently the most popular party, polling at 26.9%.

Source:

[http://nyheteridag.se/nytt-sd-rekord-i-sentio-pa-
otroliga-26...](http://nyheteridag.se/nytt-sd-rekord-i-sentio-pa-
otroliga-269-procent-moderaterna-stortdyker-till-samsta-nagonsin/)

~~~
coldsmoke
According to one polling institute, yes. But in the others they are the third
largest party at around 17 % which in it self is alarmingly high.[1]

And Nyheter Idag is basically the Breitbart of Sweden.

[1]
[https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinionsm%C3%A4tningar_inf%C3%...](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinionsm%C3%A4tningar_inf%C3%B6r_riksdagsvalet_i_Sverige_2018)
(In Swedish, but the stats don't need translating. SD denotes the Sweden
Democrats)

~~~
johansch
So why are you attacking the news site publishing these polls ? Are you saying
that they are lying about the data?

Anyway, this is a good resource: [http://status.st/](http://status.st/)

------
eternal_july
"There is no cannibalism in the British navy, absolutely none, and when I say
none, I mean there _is_ a certain amount."

------
qofcourse
The government of Sweden, which has been censoring news articles about Islamic
rape and failing to punish Islamic rapists, says these are facts, so don't
worry? Give me a break.

~~~
zond
The swedish government has no censorship powers.

~~~
ptaipale
It's not that simple. There's a lot happening on this front, and when the
government controls a substantial part of the economy, they have _effective_
censorship powers even when they're not actually burning books.

National economist Tino Sanandaji has been writing about how BRÅ
(Brottsförebyggande rådet) has ceased to make statistics about immigration-
rateld crime, for political reasons.

He published a book about this subject [1], and it's quite a success, but
libraries are refusing to buy it because it is "inciting hatred". ("Mein
Kampf" and very many extreme-left books are still available from the same
libraries, they are not "inciting hatred".)

Tino Sanandaji and people like Hanif Bali are, however, able to write about
the subject without much fear or prosecution, because they have a Middle-East
immigrant background themselves.

[1]
[https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massutmaning](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massutmaning)

[edit:typos]

~~~
alkonaut
Librarians are socialists and liberals to nearly 100% no surprise there. They
also have a lot of autonomy in deciding what books to buy.

And the fact that people from the Middle East would have more room to maneuver
in discussions about racism without being accused of racism is hardly
surprising.

~~~
ptaipale
Surely not all librarians are socialists, but e.g. this one appears to be of
the more fact-resistant kind, and comes up with repeatedly different and
increasingly funny explanations for why the library shouldn't get a bestseller
book. The latest one is "it's not fact-checked", as if the other books in the
library (like the mentioned Mein Kampf) were.

~~~
alkonaut
Of course - I'm generalizing. My point is that the opinion of librarians
aren't representative of the public discourse.

------
mvdwoord
Never believe anything until it is officially denied.

I see the same rhetoric in NL and DE, and other parts of Europe. Officials
keep denying the issues with manipulated statistics. People know better, and
as long as "populists" are labelled a cause rather than an effect, the problem
is not going away.

------
lenovouser
"Swedish government agencies have nothing to gain from covering up statistics
and facts; they seek an open and fact-based dialogue." >
[https://www.google.com/#q=Code+291](https://www.google.com/#q=Code+291)

How about you stop lying to me?

~~~
dEnigma
Is that google search supposed to be convincing? Because the first result is
from "Frontpage mag", where the blog headlines at the moment are "Finally:
English Language Declared Racist", "Nuclear Weapons Aren't Going Anywhere" and
"Environmental Protesters Burn 7-Year-Old Boy, Cause $1.2 Mil in Damage".
Seems to have a pretty clear agenda. The second result is from "Infowars", I
suppose I don't have to tell you that they are not exactly a reliable source.
Third one is a website supposedly maintained by "anonymous journalist" who
hide their names because they fear "political correctness". It continues in
this manner as far as I can see. Not a single source that seems balanced or
trustworthy. It might well be that this "Code 291" exists, but you'll have to
show me more reliable evidence to convince me.

~~~
DarkKomunalec
Article by Die Welt - from that very same google search:
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2Farticle151331793%2FCode-291-bringt-
Schwedens-Polizei-zum-Schweigen.html&edit-text=&act=url)

~~~
dEnigma
Thank you. That seems a lot more trustworthy, sadly there isn't a lot of
information in that article.

There is also an Artikel in "Der Spiegel", now that I had a closer look[1]

Btw, I don't know on which page of the google search you found that link, but
in my case it's not on the first two result pages. Well, that's the trouble
with customized searches :)

[1] [http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/schweden-polizei-
verhe...](http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/schweden-polizei-verheimlicht-
informationen-zu-fluechtlingskriminalitaet-a-1073127.html)

------
yAnonymous
That actually draws a somewhat dire picture.

Even using hand picked numbers to try and alleviate people's fears, they have
to admit that the main assumptions about immigrant crime are correct and that
many areas are in fact turning into "shitholes", for lack of a better term.

------
patrickg_zill
Brings to mind the cynical saying, "the government will tell you what it wants
you to believe, and, what it can no longer conceal".

------
nolepointer
Remember, everyone: It is only white-majority countries that are in need of
immigration and diversity. Why? Um, well ... just because!

~~~
dEnigma
Who said that? Was it by any chance Mr. Strawman? I'm pretty sure most
proponents of diversity would agree that some black-majority or muslim-
majority countries could use some diversity as well. But acknowledging this
would destroy the "white genocide" narrative, wouldn't it?

~~~
dracht
I had a hard long think and I don't recall anyone making a plea for
immigration in non-white countries. The Japanese wishing to keep their country
filled with Japanese is not seen as a problem to be solved. The white farmers
being marginalized in Zimbabwe and butchered in South Africa certainly didn't
raise concern with the diversity aficionados either.

~~~
dEnigma
Well, I certainly don't have any hard data on this, so the point might be
moot. When I think about it, you are probably right in saying that most people
who argue for racial and cultural diversity are mostly thinking about western,
white-majority countries. On the other hand I tend to think that they would
also care for diversity in e.g. the Middle East or Japan, if one were to point
the problem out to them. I might be wrong there though, since at least your
experience seems to be different.

------
rodionos
The way the report emphasizes particular reference points makes it hard to
read. It almost looks like they're cherry-picking particular dates.

Regardless of the context in which we are discussing these counter-arguments,
having raw statistics is always helpful:

[https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/013dc374#fullscreen](https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/013dc374#fullscreen)

The data comes from the same agency, BRA, that is referenced in the report:
[https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-
statist...](https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-
statistics/crime-statistics.html)

------
devmunchies
Why are many of Europe's leaders are childless? Isn't that strange? These
people are creating laws and policies which will affect generations of people
and they don't even have any skin in the game. They are fundamentally out of
touch.

Doing a google image search of "Angela Merkel Family" or "Stefan Löfven
family" (PM of Sweden) and its night and day compared to "Barack Obama family"
or "Donald Trump Family".

Whether you are conservative or liberal, we all agree that we need leaders who
are thinking about the future generations of the nation. Too much short-
sightedness going on. Anyone who has raised kids knows that it changes you.

~~~
_of
From a sample size of 2, let's conclude that many of Europe's leaders are
childless!

~~~
devmunchies
Add Paolo Gentiloni (Italy) and Alexander Van der Bellen (Austria) and thats
already 14% of european union. I shouldn't have said "many", but "more than
comfortable".

------
Exofunctor
Let us consider, for a moment, what biases the Swedish government may have:

First, they want to make it look as though their policy choices have had
positive outcomes.

Second, they want to retain support for the current leading political power
groups. The top 3 parties are the Swedish Social Democrat Party, the Moderate
Party, and the Sweden Democrats. The latter two support tougher immigration
laws, but they are mostly outweighed by the first. The PM (who recently made
comments denying any attacks) is a member of the social democrats.

------
k_swden
It's not unlikely that migrants coming from a less educated background choose
to settle in highly segregated area as they likelier to opt to live closer to
their country men. The problem with this is very obvious, many have problem
learning the language, norms and fail to gain useful knowledge about their new
modern society and what's worse is their children is in the same trap and the
result is poor education, poverty and rising crime. The problem grows worse as
people that become successful choose to move away because they are sick of the
issues plaguing these areas, economics of scale works in reverse in these
areas.

The left (S, V, mp) haven't touched much of these issues (ignorant or
delusional), the right (C, L, KD, M) have chosen to ignore the problems for a
long time until recently (swayed by the left?), and the extreme right (SD) has
gotten very popular as they acknowledged problems but they seem to believe
that it's an innate trait of the culture where these people are coming from
and have extreme ideas about how to deal with it (rescind citizenship and
deport). I don't think it's an innate trait, I myself is an immigrant and know
many other immigrants from different backgrounds, and there's a huge
difference between those that grew up in these neighborhoods and those that
grew up in more areas which better represent the Swedish population. The one
thing that is common to all successful immigrant (and immigrant children) is
that they are confident and optimist, fast learners and choose to only hold on
to parts of their original culture that fits within the Swedish norms.

This failure of integration, to build a modern, cohesive and beneficial
culture for everyone, is common in the west, and particularly in Sweden who
primarily takes in refugee immigrants from countries in war and not highly
skilled immigrants from diverse backgrounds.

I hope these areas don't deteriorate even more and became like some ghettos of
USA, where people die every other day because of gun violence as that's what I
would call a no go zone.

~~~
DarkKomunalec
"This failure of integration, to build a modern, cohesive and beneficial
culture for everyone, is common in the west..."

That is because immigration from very different cultures is only common in the
west. Other countries either don't attract immigrants from far off, or
actively disallow their permanent residence (e.g. China and Japan).

------
dustinmoris
The problem is not immigration though. The problem is a system which is
designed to widen the gap between rich and poor, making it impossible for the
poor or less fortunate to break out of this cycle. When you move a whole bunch
of poor people into such a system then you force them into crime, no matter
what country they come from.

The solution should be to stop creating conflicts in countries which the
western world wants to destabilize or dominate because of geo-economical
advantages to them, causing war and poverty and then forcing men, women and
children to escape into the Western world where they get pushed into ghettos,
which leaves them no option other than prostitution and crime.

The solution should not be to stop immigration, but to stop forcing people in
other countries to emigrate.

------
ahoka
"Sweden needs immigration to compensate for the decline in numbers of babies
being born here."

Is this really a problem with the increasing levels of automation?

~~~
arximboldi
You can't automate elderly care.

~~~
dracht
Immigration to solve an ageing population, i.e. a population that is not
experiencing constant growth, is a pyramid scheme.

------
Pxtl
Can we not do this in HN? I've watched many communities I used to enjoy get
ruined by flamewars over Islamophobia and immigration, and I'd rather not see
that happen here.

~~~
scribu
I'd like to think that HN can host civil, fact-based discussions about
sensitive issues like these.

If it can't, then perhaps the community isn't that special after all.

~~~
Pxtl
Staying away from this kind of subject is part of what makes HN special.

------
_of
I find it surprising that Trump supporters worry about no-go zones in Sweden.
Have they ever been to New York City? Have you visited Bronx, neighborhoods in
Brooklyn, or Jamaica in Queens, East New York, and would you consider them
safe? NYC is your country, not a foreign country in Europe.

------
facepalm
They claim the last terrorist attack was 2010, but Wikipedia mentions two
incidents in 2015:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Copenhagen_shootings#Krud...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Copenhagen_shootings#Krudtt.C3.B8nden_attack)

Guess it depends on how you define terrorist attacks...

------
leereeves
I tried to separate recent crime statistics from the rest of the paper. Turns
out there weren't many:

 _the level [of lethal violence] in 2015 – when a total of 112 cases of lethal
violence were reported – was higher than for many years._

 _lethal violence using firearms has increased within the context of criminal
conflicts. The number of confirmed or suspected shootings was 20 per cent
higher in 2014 than in 2006. The statistics also show that 17 people were
killed with firearms in 2011, while the corresponding figure in 2015 was 33._

 _The number of reported rapes in Sweden has risen._

 _some 13 per cent of the population were the victim of an offence against
them personally in 2015. This is an increase on preceding years, although it
is roughly the same level as in 2005._

 _In a report published in February 2016, the Swedish Police Authority
identified 53 residential areas around the country that have become
increasingly marred by crime, social unrest and insecurity._

~~~
devwastaken
>The number of reported rapes in Sweden has risen

This part atleast, as explained to me, is because rape has a much wider
statistical definition. All sexual assault supposedly is classified under it,
penetration not required.

~~~
Sacho
The last time the rape law was significantly changed, according to Wikipedia,
was in 2005(legislature) and 2008(Supreme Court case). I couldn't read whether
the government article cited a source for the law changes(don't know Swedish),
so that's the best I have.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Legislation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Legislation)

~~~
rtp
Amount of reported rapes =/= amount of rape convictions.

------
stpe
Worth noting is the "Swedish Defense and National Security Advisor" recently
on Fox News, who confirmed Trump views has no connection at all to Swedish
security or the government, he is even completely unheard of. Also living in
the US since long with a criminal conviction. So not much of an expert.

[http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/fake-sweden-expert-on-
fox-n...](http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/fake-sweden-expert-on-fox-news-has-
criminal-convictions-in-us-no-connection-to-swedish-security/)

------
nailer
This Vice reporter has an excellent tweetstorm that covers the inaccuracies of
both the left and the right regards to Sweden.

It starts here. I've scraped it with some regexs:

[https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/834537369432911872](https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/834537369432911872)

Thread: Both left and right are talking a lot of nonsense about the situation
in #Malmo. I was there four weeks ago, reporting on the fatal shooting of
16-year-old Ahmed Obaid, an Iraqi-Swede immigrant with a bright future ahead
of him. Here’s some actual info for anyone not interested in the shrieking
leftist eye covering or racist right wing exaggeration that is surrounding
#Malmo atm.

Ahmed (police, family & gang members all agree he was innocent & not
affiliated with gangs) was one of three murders in Malmo in Jan 2017. In that
month, there were 13 shootings, a small IED explosion and a hand grenade
thrown into the lobby of a police station. Statistically this was a sharp
increase in violence.

People pretending there's no problem with gang violence in #Malmo need to get
real. The problems in #Malmo stem from many things. One big issue is how the
Swedish government seems to have pushed its large migrant population in #Malmo
into a corner and tried to forget about them.

This, coupled with the lack of employment and easy access to weapons across
from Denmark and from the Balkans, has of course created a problem. The
unemployment rate for foreign-born men between 16 and 64 in #Malmo is 30%.
That compares with 8% nationally. (despite what the Trump lot with their half
mast Pepe hard-ons and Wotsit fingers might claim).

A lack of skilled work, discrimination, housing issues, failed assimilation
and ridiculously lenient laws toward violence (sorry lefties) all plays a role
in the very real problems Malmo is facing. There’s also a huge lack of support
for the police in #Malmo from the Swedish government. They don’t have enough
officers, are under resourced & with Sweden's laws their power to lock up
criminals they do catch, is diminished.

Police in #Malmo seized ~600 weapons in 2016. Some semi-auto rifles & hand
grenades. From ’16 there’re also 13 currently unsolved murders. Whilst
reporting in #Malmo, I spoke to the family of Ahmed Obaid, a gangster parading
around the streets in a bullet proof vest and with a policeman about all of
this. They all agreed, that yes, there IS a big problem in #Malmo and it is
being largely ignored.

Unfortunately it’s now blown up (excuse the pun) in a way that isn’t currently
shedding light on anything of substance. You have the right wing pretending
there are no go zones (there’s aren’t, that’s bullshit), non-stop rape and
daily explosions, and you have the left who’re pretending it’s all milk, honey
and racist propaganda. Ignoring the situation in #Malmo doesn’t mean it
doesn’t exist, and exaggerating why doesn’t make it so.

TL;DR - #Malmo has a problem with gang related violence, but this cannot be
blamed entirely on immigrants, it also cannot be ignored.

~~~
tomp
Excellent find - I can't say if it's unbiased or not, but it definitely
_seems_ that way. Thanks!

------
andrewclunn
Nobody is interested in generalized studies about immigration or 25 year
statistical trends. They want to know what's happened in the last two years or
so since the refugee crisis started. So much of what is put forward here just
doesn't apply, and blatantly so, that I assume motivated reasoning.

~~~
alkonaut
The thing is - normal immigration and refugee immigration are two different
things.

The refugee problem cannot be solved by "not accepting refugees". That's not a
viable solution.

What should be done differently? Building huge internment camps? Would the
human suffering really be smaller in those camps than it has been in society
as a whole now through crime etc? I doubt it.

Those who argue that the wave of refugees caused so much problems rarely
present any solutions.

Non-refugee immigration on the other hand (of which Sweden had had lots)
_thats_ a different matter. But somehow that's not the focus of this recent
debate.

------
ptaipale
In an interview published soon after this Swedish government press release,
the head of Swedish ambulance workers' union says:

 _" I know it's sensitive and controversial ... But for us it's really a no go
because we have directives not to go into dangerous situations."_

The interview video has English subtitles:

[http://www.weeklystandard.com/video-head-of-ambulance-
union-...](http://www.weeklystandard.com/video-head-of-ambulance-union-
confirms-no-go-zones-in-sweden/article/2007000)

------
staticelf
"facts"... "government.se".. yeah sure.

------
alkonaut
In this discussion, please don't forget to count violence that was _avoided_
because a migrant was able so seek refuge somewhere. It's often overlooked
that the fact that someone got out of a war in the first place is a glorious
success story to begin with.

~~~
tropo
It's not a success for Sweden. Unless the migrants cause Sweden to become
safer and more prosperous, it is a failure. Swedish culture is also of value,
but will be extinct within a generation or two.

There is something demented about a country that puts the rest of the world
first, destroying itself in a futile effort to save the world.

~~~
alkonaut
There is a difference between regugee and non-refugee immigration. Refugees
will be _somewhere_ and im the first to acknowledge that it would be great if
more countries helped.

Further, there is a difference between permanent and temporary asylum. I think
giving temporary asylum to people fleeing war is the least any country can do.
I just don't understand what the option would be? Send more aid to build
larger miserable camps in nearby countries? Not sure that's better to be
honest.

~~~
tropo
The obvious is that they could go to places with similar culture. Syrians
could go to numerous nearby Muslim nations, particularly Iran. Camps are not
needed; these countries can offer citizenship just as well as Sweden does.

The other option I suppose is what Israel does, meeting the minimum treaty
obligation: Israel has a refugee camp. It turns out that many refugees are
uninterested in going there. This suggests that they aren't really all that
fearful.

------
RyanZAG
I don't understand what this has to do with HN. Swedish immigration...? How..?

I guess it's interesting enough, but I just don't see the link. Why is it
being upvoted so much?

~~~
dEnigma
Because, as you said, people find it interesting, and that is what Hacker News
is all about.

------
lumberjack
This discussion about whose statistics are more correct, seems to me to
resemble those who argue that certain races have statistically higher IQ or
statistically higher net worth or are statistically more inclined to be
involved in crime.

OK, so you have statistics that show that you are right. What you going to do
with them? Start discriminating against every single individual of that
particular ethnic group?

~~~
factsaresacred
> OK, so you have statistics that show that you are right. What you going to
> do with them?

Use them to guide immigration policy in order to protect your citizens.

Facts matter.

------
thecity2
I think the main issue with Sweden is that they invite a lot of refugees
without a great plan to integrate them into their society.

------
chris123
I've lived in Sweden since 2006. The country seems to have changed a lot since
then, and especially since around 2014, although they seem to be in denial
about it. That's just my personal perception. YMMV.

------
factsaresacred
OK, I'm going to address two claims together:

> "The number of reported rapes in Sweden has risen. But the definition of
> rape has broadened over time, which makes it difficult to compare the
> figures. It is also misleading to compare the figures with other countries,
> as many acts that are considered rape under Swedish law are not considered
> rape in many other countries."

and:

> "the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and
> others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic
> conditions in which they grew up in Sweden."

Firstly, "socioeconomic conditions" can not excuse away rape or murder. And
even if they could, that's little solace to the victims of these crimes.
Secondly the study they are referring to states that "socioeconomic
conditions" can explain 50% to 75% of the difference. Even then, what about
the other 25% to 50%?

As for the redefinition of rape, it was expanded in April 2005 to include acts
perpetrated against victims in a ‘helpless state’, such as being intoxicated.
So it's broader but much of what it captures still falls under the term rape
in other countries' legislation too. New crimes weren't invented, they were
simply shifted from the sexual assault column. Plus it keeps on rising, a
decade after the redefinition.

But here's the thing. We can ignore the redefinition and the associated noise,
and instead look at trends before 2005 as well as at aggravated rape (Grov
våldtäkt) whose frequency is not affected by changing definitions. We can also
just see what the crime reports tell us. Let's do that.

Here's the facts:

\- Studies in 1996 and again in 2005 showed that foreign-born individuals were
4.7 times more likely to commit a crime of rape and 3.7 times more likely to
commit the crime of murder.

\- Multiplying each group's proportion of suspects by their absolute size
gives us the absolute amount of those suspected of "Rape" for each group.
Doing that we find that "Swedes" made up 43.5% of "Rape" suspects, "Half-
Swedes" made up 14.6% of "Rape" suspects, and "Foreigners" made up 42% of
"Rape" suspects. These are approximations.

\- 2005's info is less informative as Sweden stopped publishing info on
ethnicity but had this to say in a their report: "Immigrants’ risk of being
registered for crime has not changed in any pronounced way since the previous
study conducted by the National Council, which related to the situation at the
end of the 1980s"

\- Before the change to the penal code in 2005, rapes were rising rapidly.
"The number of consummated rapes reported to the police has increased
dramatically, more than tripling over the course of the past two decades. A
total of 2,261 consummated rapes were reported to the police in the year 2004.
It is not possible to exclude the possibility that the dramatic increase in
reported rape offences may at least to some extent be the result of an
increase in the propensity to report these crimes to the police. _On the
whole, however, no support was found for interpretations suggesting that this
factor, even taken in combination with the effects of the legislative change
referred to above, would be sufficient to explain any major part of the
increase in the number of reported rapes. Thus it has not been established,
but it does not appear unlikely, that the number of rapes committed has in
fact increased._ "

\- "Since 1990, the number of reported cases has increased by an average 400
per year. According to the National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå),
people’s propensity to report has probably increased during this period, _but
a reasonable assumption is that actual violence against women in close
relationships also increased in the 1990s._ "

\- A 1996 BRA (Swedish Criminal statistics) study found that _" there any
indication that immigrants in Sweden are discriminated in the courts.
Immigrant overrepresentation in registered crime is almost certainly
real...nor is it caused by any generally lower social economic status
(calculated as per SEI code) in Sweden."_

\- Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention determined that between 1985
and 1989 individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and
Tunisia),Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries), other
Middle East (Jordan, Palestine, Syria), Iran and Eastern Europe (Romania,
Bulgaria) were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, 17, 9, 10 and 18 greater
than individuals born in Sweden respectively."

\- Eurostat use the ICCS (international classification of crime for
statistical purposes) method which standardises types of crimes so that they
mean the same thing in different countries. Their stats show rape in Sweden is
rising both before and after 2005.

\- Audited sentences for rape from 2009 shows an over-representation by as
many as 48 percent of the rapists were born abroad. (This represents an
increase compared data from 2005, which could point to the phenomenon is
growing.) Within the category of aggravated rape, the figure was as much as 64
percent.

\- Professor Sten Levander, a member of BRÅ:s scientific board, in an
interview with tabloid Aftonbladet said "That the number of reported rapes has
increased so significantly in a short time can not be explained by regulatory
changes and increased willingness to report the crime. Scientists believe that
certain types of rape may indeed have become more common."

So, yes. Sweden's real rape-rate is rising and, yes, migrants are
disproportionately responsible. Often shockingly so.

Sources:

[https://www.pdf-
archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares...](https://www.pdf-
archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-
brottslighet-1/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1.pdf)
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/1147632?seq=2#page_scan_tab_con...](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1147632?seq=2#page_scan_tab_contents)
[https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800025850/1...](https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800025850/1371914734437/2005_crime_among_persons_born_in_sweden_and_other_countries.pdf)
[https://www.bra.se/download/18.779f51ff14b839896441cec/14278...](https://www.bra.se/download/18.779f51ff14b839896441cec/1427800831841/Reported_offences_1950_2014.xls")
[https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1...](https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1371914726382/2006_4_kriminalstatistik_2005.pdf)
[https://www.bra.se/download/18.12305534131e173a7f180001557/1...](https://www.bra.se/download/18.12305534131e173a7f180001557/1371914735610/2010_18_english_summary_men%27s_violence_against_women.pdf)
[https://unstats.un.org/unsd/statcom/doc15/BG-ICCS-
UNODC.pdf](https://unstats.un.org/unsd/statcom/doc15/BG-ICCS-UNODC.pdf)
[http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-
datasets/-/crim_of...](http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-
datasets/-/crim_off_cat)
[https://www.bra.se/download/18.31d7fffa1504bbffea0abf49/1450...](https://www.bra.se/download/18.31d7fffa1504bbffea0abf49/1450440526618/2015_V%C3%A5ldt%C3%A4ktsbrottets_hantering_i_r%C3%A4ttskedjan.pdf)
[http://www.bra.se/download/18.22a7170813a0d141d2180007794/20...](http://www.bra.se/download/18.22a7170813a0d141d2180007794/2012_13_Brottsutvecklingen_i_Sverige_2008_2011.pdf)
[http://www.pdf-
archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-...](http://www.pdf-
archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-
brottslighet-1/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1.pdf)
[https://www.diva-
portal.org/smash/get/diva2:526664/FULLTEXT0...](https://www.diva-
portal.org/smash/get/diva2:526664/FULLTEXT01.pdf)

------
DanBC
See also this BBC report.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39056786](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
politics-39056786)

------
ggdG
I would take these "facts" about migration with a huge rock of salt.

In Sweden, as in other Western European countries, public debate about
immigration, islamisation and its consequences to society is being smothered
under a suffocating blanket of political correctness.

After the New Year's Eve attacks in Cologne - when on one square, during one
night a total of about 1200 women were hemmed in individually and sexually
assaulted by a mob of muslim men [1] - the German press and the government
managed to keep the events under wraps for four days until the outrage on
social media became too great to ignore.

In the slipstream of the press coverage that followed, the Swedish newspaper
Dagens Nyheter revealed that similar events had happened since a couple of
years on the summer music festival "We Are Sthlm" in Stockholm [2]. When asked
for reasons as to why nothing of this ever became public knowledge, Police
chief Peter Ågren is quoted explaining how he performs self-censorship on
these kinds of cases as to not play into the hands of the anti-immigration
party Sverigedemokraterna [3][4].

I don't follow Swedish media because of the language barrier but if my
experience with Flemish and Dutch media is any indication then this political
party might very well be demonised beyond recognition in the Swedish press.
People don't like to play into the hands of what they're told to consider as
the Second Coming of Lucifer, even when the events turn out to be the very
thing this party has been warning for for years.

It would be quite understandable if events like wat happened in Stockholm
would lead to a moral panic [5], but as soon as it becomes clear that muslim
immigrants are the perpetrators, the opposite happens. People will vent their
outrage about what happened in a close circle of trusted friends but put on a
mask of political correctness to anyone outside that circle. Not unlike the
Soviet Union in its heyday. On the other hand, as soon as there is a hint of
how racist the native population allegedly is, the press kicks into full moral
panic mode.

A striking example of this double standard are the events of 2016 in Belgium.
During the arrest of terrorist Salah Abdeslam in Brussels [6], the anti-terror
units were pelted with stones and bottles by muslim youth from the Molenbeek
neighbourhood where his hideout was. Quite the contradiction to the eternal
story we keep hearing about "a few bad apples". So the public broadcaster VRT
decided not to mention that pesky detail. Elsewhere it hardly got any coverage
until a minister got angry over it [7]. When on the other hand a few racist
comments made by native Belgians are found on Facebook among millions of non-
racist ones, then this is reason enough for the newspaper "De Morgen" to
appear with a entirely black front page [8].

The Swedish government's "fact" sheet puts on a brave face about having
immigration-related violence under control. One look at the ever growing list
of recent grenade attacks [9] (that they conveniently forget to mention in
their factsheet) tells us there is a very serious problem [10]. No mention
neither of the fact that of the 160.000+ asylum seekers that arrived in 2015
only, fewer than 500 landed a job [11]. On a total population of 10 million
people hundreds of thousands of relative newcomers - many of them functionally
illiterate - are living on benefits without any prospect of ever playing a
role in the economy of Sweden where less than 5% of the jobs is low-skilled
[12].

The "factsheet" lambasts its own citizens - who foot the bill for the benefits
and the urban unrest - for being islamophobe, for harrassing muslims and for
discriminating them on the job market. It misleadingly suggest a percentage of
1.5 muslims by only counting "muslim faith communities". While the real number
is probably at least 6% [13]. Apparantly the Swedish government wants us to
believe that the other 4.5% have become secular.

The findings of the Dutch scholar Ruud Koopmans, who does research at the
Humboldt university in Berlin tell another story. By conducting surveys among
the European muslim population he comes to the conclusion that 40 to 45%
percent can be classified as fundamentalist [14][15]. There is also the
British Channel 4 docu "What British Muslims Really Think" [16].

That many muslims in Sweden are quite fundamentalist is why the Jewish actor
Kim Bodnia decided to quit the crime series "The Bridge" because he did no
longer feel safe in Malmö with its growing antisemitism [17].

And if you think this will all blow over once the children of the first
generation immigrants have finished school and are ready for the job market,
think again. Second generation muslim immigrants are no better integrated,
they are even worse integrated. If you want to look up some stats from Belgium
on that topic you hit a stonewall. But the Dutch central bureau for statistics
has some solid public data on that.

So one of the disturbing things they found was that for many non-Western
minorities criminality rate increased with the second generation w.r.t. the
first one. Take for instance Moroccans and Turks, as they are important
minorities in both Belgium and the Netherlands.

Males with a Moroccan background are almost six times more likely to be a
crime suspect than a native Dutchman. Males of Turkish descent more than three
times. And when you split up by generation: second generation Moroccans in the
Netherlands are almost three times more likely to be a crime suspect than the
first generation. Second generation Turks more than two times [18].

So you have a generation of people who were born and spent their entire life
in the Netherlands, went to the same schools and got the same education as
Dutch kids, and yet they are more of a burden to society and are less well
integrated than the first generation of immigrants.

I think you can extrapolate that to other European countries like Sweden and
to immigrants with a background in other parts of the world, like the horn of
Africa, Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan.

The share of muslims among the European population is also rapidly growing
[19] because of a number of factors that amplify each other. First of all
there is the continued influx. Then you have family reunification. Add to that
the fact that many muslims of 1st, 2nd or 3rd generation prefer to look for a
spouse in their country of origin. And there is the higher birthrate among
muslims compared to the native population. And finally there are native people
who feel alienated in their own country and go try their luck in North
America, Australia or New Zealand.

So I think these "facts" are a desperate attempt by the Swedish government to
shape perception towards their own interests, and you are better informed when
reading the testimony of that courageous Swedish cop:

[http://www.thelocal.se/20170208/swedish-police-officer-
cause...](http://www.thelocal.se/20170208/swedish-police-officer-causes-
controversy-with-facebook-post)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Sthlm_sexual_assaults](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Sthlm_sexual_assaults)

[3] [http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-
that...](http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-
up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/)

[4] [http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assaults-at-the-
stockholm-f...](http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assaults-at-the-stockholm-
festival-have-never-been-fully-investigated/)

[5]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic)

[6]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Brussels_police_raids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Brussels_police_raids)

[7]
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fderedactie.be%2Fcm%2Fvrtnieuws%2Fbinnenland%2F1.2607503&edit-
text=&act=url)

[8]
[https://twitter.com/demorgen/status/760580553850621954](https://twitter.com/demorgen/status/760580553850621954)

[9]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden)

[10] [http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sweden-grenades-
idUKKCN0QE0...](http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sweden-grenades-
idUKKCN0QE09F20150809)

[11] [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-
crisi...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-
asylum-seekers-sweden-applications-withdrawn-record-numbers-a7209231.html)

[12] [http://www.economist.com/news/finance-
economics/21709511-too...](http://www.economist.com/news/finance-
economics/21709511-too-few-refugees-not-too-many-are-working-europe-refugees-
sweden-are)

[13]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Sweden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Sweden)

[14] [https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-
fundamentalism-i...](https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-
fundamentalism-is-widely-spread)

[15] [https://phys.org/news/2015-01-islamic-fundamentalism-
margina...](https://phys.org/news/2015-01-islamic-fundamentalism-marginal-
phenomenon-europe.html)

[16] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-
FM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM)

[17]
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/1216...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/12160003/Anti-
semitism-in-Malmo-made-me-quit-says-The-Bridge-actor.html)

[18]
[https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf](https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf),
paragraph 1.7, "Proportion of crime suspects by background and background
characteristics, 2015*"

[19]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth#Europ...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth#Europe)

------
jlebrech
the solution is to add checkpoints around those zones.

