
Startup Design Framework - eibrahim
http://designmodo.com/startup/?u=94
======
gklitt
Am I alone in finding it absurd how this product is being marketed? I saw the
title and expected some guidelines on how to build a business, and instead
found some static website components and an over-the-top video. Their
dramatization of their product reminded me of the Vooza parody video in its
silliness.[1]

To be clear, I have nothing wrong with the fact that these guys have created a
useful set of website components...but having a pretty website is a miniscule
part of building a successful company.

[1]
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L3Kgc6Y7E](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L3Kgc6Y7E)

~~~
sakri
The other day I saw
[http://www.knocktounlock.com/](http://www.knocktounlock.com/) and was
convinced it was a brilliant comedy piece, but then left the site confused and
unsure...

~~~
huhtenberg
That's actually pretty neat idea.

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tonywebster
I wish they were more transparent about the components used for the site,
specifically for licensing purposes.

Example: The demo site uses Proxima Nova, which is loaded via Typekit. That's
not an open source font, there's nothing documenting that they have a
sublicensing/resale license, which means it's an added cost to someone to
either license each weight of the typeface ($29 per weight, and I think I
count 8 weights = $232). Alternatively, that font is only available in the
Typekit $49.99/year plan, which imposes pageview limits. The typeface really
seals the deal and adds to the emotion of the page, and could be a big
disappointment or added cost to someone. Certainly, startups don't need the
drama of being accused of copyright infringement.

~~~
abcd_f
You can self-host Proxima Nova for $29 per weight ... _drum-roll_ ... of one
time payment.

[http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/marksimonson/proxima-
nova/buy.h...](http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/marksimonson/proxima-
nova/buy.html)

PS. By the way, Mark Simonson was one of the first type designers to
experiment with liberal web-friendly licensing and would you just look how
well Proxima is doing these days.

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tga
Long website short, this is a fixed website theme (a nice large one at that),
cut into slices. I don't see anything fundamentally different from anything
you'd fish out of ThemeForest for 1/10 the price.

From a startup design __framework __I would have expected multiple cohesive
templates (web+email+business cards+letterhead+banner+tshirt+etc) with a good
way of customizing everything at once (colours, fonts, spacing).

~~~
baby
I'm pretty sure this is #1 on the frontpage because they gamed HN. I don't how
it's different from all those themes. Except for the price and the landing
page.

~~~
malditojavi
Dont' know if they gamed it or not, but I submitted same url without the
crappy end a few hours ago before this one. HN is not able to detect doubled
URLs?

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moeedm
My advice to startups: Hire a designer.

Design is way more than a bunch of generic UI elements put together on a page.
This will not help you and only further cloud your understanding of what
design is, and it will hurt your start-up more than any good it will do.

Trust me.

~~~
l0gicpath
Even better, get a designer as a co-founder. Specially for startups
bootstrapping.

 _Really_ good designers are hard to find/likely already occupied or juggling
multiple projects at a time. IMHO, design is a never ending process.

You'll hire a good designer if you get lucky at your early days but then
retaining them becomes exceptionally hard. I've found that having them onboard
as a co-founder seems to be the best way to work through this.

~~~
rocco
Any idea where to find a good designer co-founder? I have finished code of my
startup idea few months ago and currently I am still stuck cause my crappy web
design skills.

~~~
dylanrw
They're everywhere. Pay attention to the products/projects you admire. Look
for Dribbbler's that also discuss goals instead of just aesthetics, and also
try and find the design posts/comments that are made on HN. They exist but I
feel the good ones are an elusive bunch that are often considered/confused
with engineers (and maybe that's because good thinking is just good thinking
and isn't confined to one profession, but I digress...)

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codebeaker
It certainly doesn't help that no matter where I seem to go on their site, I
always come back to the video. I couldn't find the demo, or any screenshots of
what it looked like, or what components it contained. So much for good design.

~~~
c3o
You just need to scroll down from the video. I missed that too... I fault
Apple for killing scroll bars.

~~~
onion2k
Apple are partly to blame, but the trend for 'full screen background' websites
doesn't help. If the content obviously continued below the fold you'd scroll
without needing a prompt. Websites shouldn't be designed in ways that make you
have to learn to check if there's more content hiding under what you're
seeing.

~~~
girvo
I never have the issue on Firefox on my Linux laptop, but I always run into
issues with not knowing to scroll on my Mac/Safari, simply because the
scrollbar doesn't exist. On Linux, a quick glance to the right and I know that
there is extra content that I can scroll to see. That doesn't exist on Safari.
It's annoying, even if it is pretty >_>

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dylanrw
I can hear the meeting now, "Let's say it's for startups and then, startups
will buy it!", "Yah perfect!".

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aioprisan
As many have pointed out in the comments, the license allows for only one,
personal use of the toolkit, making it more of a theme than a framework. You
can't use this framework for more than one project/client and there isn't an
equivalent "developer" license, that allows for developing unlimited projects
based on that theme, like they usually do. I do love what they've come up with
and the demo that you can download is top notch, but both the license and the
steep price point don't make much sense to me.

~~~
jdee
I kind of agree. I'm all for people getting paid, but the idea of a framework
that I can only use once feels odd. Isnt this just a big template that has
then been split into separate elements? Thats not too difficult to do with a
$10 template.

A lot of love has obviously gone into this, but the market positioning isnt
that convincing at a $249 price point.

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onion2k
Looking at the marketing site, there's no overall navigation, there's hidden
links (the carousels that don't look like carousels...), the screenshots can't
be viewed in a bigger size with a lightbox, there's somewhat unnecessary
animation, the code is littered with inline styles, there are empty tags,
there are comments like "end content-wrapper" without a corresponding "start
content-wrapper" comment…

It looks lovely, no doubt about that, but for a $249 single-use license I
would expect it to be backed up by bulletproof code. If that website is an
example of what you end up with, it's not.

~~~
bybjorn
The license is called "Developer license" which I at least associate with
multiple use, and I don't see them specifically mention "single use only"
(although I see that the text can be interpreted that way) ..
[http://designmodo.com/startup-license/](http://designmodo.com/startup-
license/)

EDIT: got a reply from them on twitter:
[https://twitter.com/Designmodo/status/412867217118605313](https://twitter.com/Designmodo/status/412867217118605313)

You were right: "one license - one project."

~~~
fabiant7t
Being a non native speaker, I had no doubt that a developer licence saying
"You have rights for royalty free use of our resources for any of your
personal or commercial project." lacks the pluralization of project and is
meant to allow using it on _any_ of your projects. Designmodo clearly stated
it's one licence for one project. They should replace _any_ with _one_.

~~~
bybjorn
Agreed, also the naming "Developer license" implies multiple usage .. at least
to me.

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goldenkey
I like the overall design, and the video is damn inspirational. Very fond of
how they made little cardboard widgets and put the HTML on the back, cute :-)
However I didn't even know there was anything below the fold, until I read
this comment thread, looked like a video page, is all. And as I scrolled, the
page lagged like a wild goose. Designers might not have the chops needed to
analyze the JS onScroll render/paint cycle times. Scroll performance is so
essential on a parallax scrolling effect - and there are so many hacks to get
it done performant. Doesn't look like this makes the cut.

~~~
xixixao
What hardware are you on, what browser are you using? Because I have a retina
pro and loads of websites scroll much worse than this (f.e.
[http://foundation.zurb.com/learn/features.html](http://foundation.zurb.com/learn/features.html)).
It also worked fairly well on my WP8. I'd say this is just a tradeoff between
graphics and performance.

~~~
goldenkey
I'm on a macbook pro with a 1.8ghz i7 using Chrome/32.0.1700.41

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franze
hmmm, is the landingpage an actual example of the design framework they are
promoting or not? i'm not 100% sure

if it is, well ...
[http://www.webpagetest.org/video/view.php?id=131217_9H_A6M.1...](http://www.webpagetest.org/video/view.php?id=131217_9H_A6M.1.0)

you can have a beautiful design and a super cool responsive website, but if it
takes 10 to 12s for above the fold content to be useable, you are missing the
point and your users/customers.

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datphp
Landing on a page and having an auto-play HD video as a background, then
clicking on the play icon just to have a the same video poping up (and lagging
like hell... this is the point where I hope the have a great concept)

Then not being able to figure out what those guys sell...

Then finally figuring out they're selling website design. Damn the irony...

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irtefa
I really like how it looks. However, the website is a little bit laggy when
you scroll down. I wonder how they decided on the pricing model i.e. $249 for
a single-user license. Not saying that it is unfair. Just asking if anyone has
an idea.

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jongold
Designmodo are kind of like cancer for the design industry.

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cmelbye
Is it considered acceptable to post affiliate links on HN?

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SmeelBe
An amazing framework, a great step forward, beyond all the existing
frameworks. I guess your main trump card is design…

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parag_c_mehta
Outrageous price. $249 for a single project to use some snippets ? What's
wrong with themeforest designs ?

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moeedm
A great way to look like everyone else!

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duiker101
So they made a bootstrap for money?

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zv
PowerPoint Web2.0?

