
Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans - rbanffy
https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/3138/zhaoxin-unveiled-next-generation-x86-soc-plans-32-core-servers-sub-7nm-client-designs/
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monocasa
For those who don't know, Zhaoxin is a continuation of the Via x86 line. Neat
to see a third vendor still kicking.

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JerryTy
Fourth vendor actually! Centaur just announced a new core for the server
market and even AVX-512 support.

See this [https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/3099/centaur-unveils-its-
new-...](https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/3099/centaur-unveils-its-new-server-
class-x86-core-cns-adds-avx-512/)

~~~
monocasa
Awesome! And some tensor cores for inference, neat!

Honestly, wouldn't be surprised to see more vendors spring up out of nowhere
soon. The base patents are about to expire on x86_64. Everyone keeps saying
that Apple is going to release an ARM laptop, but IMO a homegrown x86_64 chip
is way more likely.

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saagarjha
Does Apple have any experience making x86_64 processors? Do they even have the
license to do so?

~~~
monocasa
If the parents are expired, they don't need a license. The base patents are
expiring very very soon (ie. months).

~~~
ksec
Interesting proposition, something I haven't read anyone put forward before.

But Apple Scaling their current High Performance ARM design using HPC Node and
higher Clock speed is likely much easier than doing a high performance x86
design.

Even Amazon decided to use ARM for their Server platform, to me I think ARM
has won the game.

~~~
monocasa
Apple's chip teams have worked on other ISAs before, and there's tons of ex
Transmeta folk around the bay area of you need more x86 experience.

And Amazon AFAIK just cleaned up an existing ARM uarch sort of like
Intrinsity's expertise. I don't think they have the experience needed to make
their own high perf uarch, whether it be ARM or x86.

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jacquesm
I've used the previous generation of these for some machine control in very
hostile environment (welding, plasmacutting), very reliable and cheap.

~~~
rasz
Which one exactly? Afaik all the CPUs on their roadmap never existed.

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kkmx
They exist. You can buy a Lenovo Kaitian-series dekstop in China with a
Zhaoxin chip. They also have a bunch of laptops. You can't outside of china
because that's their agreement with Via. You can still find them on Alibaba
sometimes.

~~~
rasz
I meant the "Zhaoxin's home-grown x86 CPU is completely designed from the
ground up within China" CPUs, those AFAIK dont exist.

Lenovo Kaitian M6100/A6100 were real, powered by renamed VIA NANO chips.
Taiwanese designed VIA Nano E-C4650 got rebadged and magically became
homegrown Chinese ZX-C4650 design etc. Good old Pentium 3 Mobile AGTL+ Socket
479 bus circa 2001 vintage. [https://wccftech.com/via-28nm-c4650-x86-quad-
core-processor-...](https://wccftech.com/via-28nm-c4650-x86-quad-core-
processor-benchmarks/)

Yes, the renamed original old school Centaur/VIA designs do exist, and perform
at ~Intel Atom z8300 level. Good review by Chinese tech vlogger
[https://www.bilibili.com/video/av61782186/](https://www.bilibili.com/video/av61782186/)

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tambourine_man
I’ve read about it many times but still can’t figure it out completely.

Can a x86 license holder always use any of its new features? For example, you
had a license in the 90s, can you automatically use 256, 512 width vector
instructions?

Are none of those licenses untransferable in case of the company purchase or
just AMD’s?

Is the license policy from Intel a result from IBM’s pressure back in the day?
Did they demand multiple providers or just one alternative (AMD)?

~~~
toast0
AMDs initial x86 processors were indeed as an IBM mandated second source, but
I think their 386 class (and definitely 486 class) processors were
independently developed. I suspect Intel won't cancel existing licenses for
anti-trust reasons, but also would price a new license for a lot more than in
the 486 days.

~~~
rasz
AMD 386 had directly copied microcode, Intel sued and lost due to previous
cross licensing agreements.

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ThinkBeat
With the trade war and "national security" posture the US is doing its very
best to stimulate China to become self-sufficient.

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vbezhenar
Russia also producing their own CPUs recently. They are not very competitive
in consumer space, but they are not ridiculously expensive either. It's
awesome to see more competition.

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3fe9a03ccd14ca5
Producing CPU (and chips in general) are rightfully seen by all of these
countries as a national security imperative.

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bufferoverflow
No pricing, unfortunately.

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tpetry
This cpu may never be sold. It's an effort by the chinese government to be
less dependent on american companies.

~~~
rasz
More like effort by VIA to circumvent x86 license expiry with added bonus of
National IC Investment Fund grants
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyshih/2019/11/22/chinas-
lat...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyshih/2019/11/22/chinas-latest-
development-fund-and-the-impact-on-american-companies/)

