
How to Stay Alive in a Terrorized Hotel - robg
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/11/how_to_stay_alive_in_a_terrori.php
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patio11
OK, look at this from the opposite perspective from securing a building:
pretend you're a terrorist. How do you kill everyone in the hotel? What are
your challenges.

Challenge #1: The hotel has hundreds of exits. You have, in the instant case,
two men. At best, what, a dozen? Two? If you gave the Secret Service their
pick of two dozen men, anybody they want, and ordered them to protect the same
entrances, they would say "It can't be done". And preventing egress is every
bit as hard.

Challenge #2: It takes high levels of training to hit a moving target by
anything but luck. Your men likely don't have it.

Challenge #3: You can't pursue anyone who runs from the scene. You don't have
the manpower and it crimps your kill-the-innocents game plan.

Challenge #4: Minutes after the incident starts armed adversaries start
arriving. They have effectively infinite reinforcements. And you're totally
cut off.

So the question for the terrorist game theoretician: how do you kill someone
running from the scene of a terror incident? _You don't._ Your best bet is to
herd, trap as many as you can, and slaughter at a leisurely pace while the
cops set up a perimeter outside and wait for someone who knows what the #$'(
they are doing to take command.

So if you're ever a civilian caught in a terrorist attack, and your primary
objective is getting away: pick a direction, preferably away from other
people. Run in a zigzag fashion. Make it behind cover (like another building),
change direction, and beat feet -- nobody ever dies more than a block from the
scene (except of injuries sustained at the scene).

Now, if you were a civilian whose primary goal was stopping the terror attack
rather than individual survival: there are several hundred of you and two of
them. They're holding guns, not the Spear of Destiny, and they're busy getting
their jihadi high on. Run at the closest bad guy screaming bloody murder,
tackle him, and stab him in the eye with your car keys. If there are two of
you, split to two angles and do it. Hopefully other folks will follow your
example -- if they do, the terrorists will end up with their faces stomped in
(guns don't help much when you're on the floor getting kicked by 20 people)
and most of the civilians in the building will not.

If you're the first cop on the scene, great, use what they've figured out
about school shootings: the priority is NOT to contain the incident. That is
the TERRORIST'S priority. YOUR priority is to get in there and start putting
as many bullets in his general vicinity as possible, to give him other things
to think about rather than "How do I take hostages, secure my position, and
turn the inevitable rescue operation into a total bloodbath?" Terrorists who
are busy taking cover behind an interior wall to avoid getting their heads
blown off are terrorists who are not killing anyone presently. And remember,
all you have to do is keep it up a few minutes for the civilians to bug out
and the cavalry to arrive.

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ajkirwin
The aiming argument does kind of fall apart if your agressors have access (and
they virtually all do) to any kind of high-powered automatic weaponry with a
high fire rate.

Even zigzagging won't help against a hail of bullets. You're likely to get a
few hits.

~~~
donw
Although not even remotely scientific, my meager time paintballing seems to
confirm this. Even marginally-aimed semi-automatic fire is going to be hard
impossible to dodge, especially if you have nothing that even remotely looks
like cover.

Even so, you're pretty much guaranteed to be killed like livestock if you
stay, so running away is still the better strategy. Hitting the fire alarm may
also be advantageous, as it will make it harder for the baddies to see and
hear (water, flashing lights, loud klaxons), and it might help others feel
that natural instinct to get the hell out.

Let's also not forget that gunshot wounds are not guaranteed fatal; the shock
of being hit is far more severe than the actual damage caused by the bullet.
Not that being shot is all that much fun, of course, but you're statistically
likely to survive.

Since I'm rambling, let's also bring up the oddity that normal people can be
coaxed to riot with surprisingly little provocation, yet when their lives are
directly threatened by a small number of aggressors, many will cower in fear
and be led like cattle.

Since I've never been in that position, I don't know how I'd handle it.

~~~
mattmaroon
Also, if I'm a terrorist I'm not thinking as far ahead as OP did here. I see
something move, I unload at it.

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jgrahamc
I have no idea what this is doing on HN and I have flagged it. It's not
appropriate to this forum _and_ it's a piece of really bad writing.

What has dental flossing your laptop (which appears to be a strategy copied
from Sean Connery in 1960s era Bond movies with a strand of hair) got to do
with a terrorist attack on a hotel? Because terrorists who are about to launch
an assault on a hotel have first popped up to your room to take a look to see
if you've got a .pr0n directory.

And thanks for the advice on slipping a knife past TSA. Great idea. Hey,
advise readers to try to get a knife past a TSA agent.

Also, the whole thing about high floors is BS. Why? If I was a terrorist my
next move in hotel attacks would be do go with a repeat of the Brighton hotel
bombing. Book rooms months in advance, plants bombs in those rooms, set them
off months later destroying the hotel. This article is a typical example of
planning for the attack you've just experienced.

Frankly, he should take Schneier's advice and just not worry about this stuff.

~~~
jrockway
_And thanks for the advice on slipping a knife past TSA. Great idea. Hey,
advise readers to try to get a knife past a TSA agent._

If it is easy to get a knife past security, I want to have mine so I can fend
off the terrorists that smuggled them in too.

The TSA is very bad at screening. I have smuggled in liquids on all of my
recent flights. The reason they yell at you 50 times in line to take the
liquids out of your bag is because they cannot detect them when you sandwich
them between electronics. (Recently, a friend of mine accidentally went
through security with a full CamelBak of water. Guess what, the x-ray machines
don't detect water.)

~~~
jgrahamc
If you are serious about fighting a knife wielding terrorist then I'd suggest
that you go on a good close quarters combat course and learn how to get the
knife off someone.

That way you'll actually be able to disarm the attacker without breaking the
TSA rules and without having an extra knife for someone to take off you.

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apstuff
New title please: How to stay alive during a Reddit-izing.

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bprater
The guy submitting this is in the top 10 Y!H submitters.

So either he finds it relevant or is a karma whore. I like to give the benefit
in general, so I'm going to go with the former.

~~~
icey
Take it from someone in the top 100 on the board... High score is no indicator
of quality.

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petercooper
Irrelevant to HN, pretty tasteless, and bad advice generally. This is probably
not a new low on here, but pretty low.

