
Anonymous Person Posts $500,000 Bond To Free Texas Teen - iProject
http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/11/201202207/anonymous-person-posts-500-000-bond-to-free-texas-teen
======
veridies
It's bizarre to see the number of comments on places with normally great
discussion (Ars Technica being a prime example) who talk about how this kid
should "only" get community service or a small fine.

He made a joke. An obvious joke, seemingly devoid of any real malice. The idea
that he should invoke _any_ punishment for this is insane. His speech is
protected by the First Amendment, and morally he did absolutely nothing wrong.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "An obvious joke"

Not that obvious. The only thing that makes it clear this was a joke was the
addition of 'jk'. A lot of people won't know when that means and even though I
know what it means I'd still be worried after reading the post and probably
have it looked into. There are some things normal people don't even joke about
- this is one of them.

Edit: I might be wrong on the last point. There will be some people who joke
about these types of things. But his post wasn't funny. It was just a sick
statement.

~~~
sillysaurus
For the record, here's exactly what the teen said:

 _" Oh yeah, I’m real messed up in the head, I’m going to go shoot up a school
full of kids and eat their still-beating hearts. Lol jk"_

That's an obvious joke. The "lol jk" wasn't even necessary to flag it as such.

~~~
jlgreco
Seriously, _eating peoples still beating hearts_? I don't care about Poe's Law
or how much sarcasm doesn't translate to ascii... if that is not _plainly_ a
joke to you then you have some serious issues with the english language that
you need to resolve.

~~~
dkersten
I make worse jokes than this on a weekly basis. That something like this could
lead to any kind of punishment beyond "stop making tasteless jokes" is insane.

~~~
jlgreco
Same. I am stunned that this apparently warrants _any_ sort of official
response, and I am doubly stunned that so many people seem to support a
response of some sort.

------
readme
There needs to be a way of controlling activist judges. Why the court is even
able to decide what amount the bail is, is beyond me.

Of course, I'm not even mentioning the part about being thrown in jail for
what is tantamount to thought crime. That's a whole 'nother issue.

\----------

EDIT: I'm not sure why my comment has been downvoted? Incase you were
confused, I was referring to this here:

"In April, a grand jury in Comal County, Texas, indicted Carter on a charge of
making a terroristic threat, and a judge set bail at $500,000."

See, even though the Jury found him guilty, the Judge set the bail enormously
high. This kid did NOTHING. He exercised his first ammendment rights, and got
a 500k bail for it. The real problem here was the Judge, who gets to set the
bail after the fact. I wonder what the jury would have concluded if they had
been allowed to decide the bail?

~~~
Vivtek
In reference to your edit - the phrase "activist judge" is a bit of a
dogwhistle for conservatism; it's easy to click to downvote before really
digesting what you said.

That said, an independent judiciary is an important part of the separation of
powers on which American government is based. While I personally find this
entire thing reprehensible from soup to nuts, the judge's power to set
arbitrary bail really is the way the system is supposed to work (the kid
getting beat up in prison is _not_ the way the system is supposed to work -
except that plenty of Americans need a lot more civics education and actually
do like to think of people getting raped in prison as extrajudiciary
punishment for the suspicious).

Also, an indictment is not a ruling of guilt. A grand jury is convened to
decide whether there's a case at all. I personally think this grand jury
should have their citizenship revoked until they've passed a battery of
examinations in what America stands for, but sadly, that's again not the way
the system works.

~~~
krichman
The problem is that half the population is below average in terms of mental
ability and education.

A bigger problem: the state's attorneys and judges should know about the Bill
of Rights, and they are the ones with the actual power here. With such a high
bail it appears this particular judgeship was granted erroneously.

~~~
monkeyspaw
> The problem is that half the population is below average in terms of mental
> ability and education.

Isn't this a problem everywhere, though? Why do we only hear this issue WRT
the U.S.? (I freely admit it could just be because I live in the states)

~~~
readme
It's the poverty!

People in other countries get healthcare when they need it. They get
assistance when they need it. Therefore, they have extra mental cycles to use
to consider the reality of politics.

In the US, we make sure our poor people have to work two jobs so they can't
stop to do a damn thing about how screwed they are by participating in our
democracy.

~~~
rowanseymour
Rwanda has a basic universal healthcare system. Everyone pays an amount
according to their economic status, and everyone gets basic healthcare.

~~~
lostlogin
Achieving a lot when you have little would leave one to believe that having
lots lets you achieve a lot. I'm some respects the US hasn't managed to
achieve much at all. Is this what you mean?

------
noonespecial
As if we needed another fight to defend yet another constitutional amendment
in peril... Now we've got to make some noise about the 8th.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Excessive_bail)

(Excessive bail: Yep, founding fathers thought of that too.)

~~~
wrboyce
> Yep, founding fathers thought of that too.

No, they stole the idea from British Law.

~~~
alan_cx
Are you referring to the cases in the UK where people made jokes and ended up
in court for it?

Because, we don't even have free speech guaranteed. Quite a few people are
going to jail for their words. On top of that, we refuse entry to people and
boot others out because of what they say. Merely their words and opinions.

See, now we have this scary notion of "hate speech". No one knows what it
means, but people get arrested and charged, and end up in jail. Its on a whim.
It's designed mission creep gone mad.

Any pretense of free speech in the UK is long gone.

~~~
weavejester
> On top of that, we refuse entry to people and boot others out because of
> what they say.

Is there a country in the world that _doesn 't_ do this? If you're not a
citizen of a country, you generally can be kicked out or denied entry for the
smallest of reasons. Which is bad, but not unusual.

> No one knows what it means, but people get arrested and charged, and end up
> in jail. Its on a whim.

I'm not sure I completely agree with the hate speech laws of the UK, but there
a lot of case law and precedent behind it, and it's not nearly as broad as you
make it sound.

In general, hate speech laws target abusive speech intended to stir up racial
hatred, and abusive speech intended to harass an individual. The laws also
targets _threatening_ speech against sexual orientation, or _threatening_
speech intended to incite religion hatred. So it's okay to, for instance,
ridicule or insult Islam or Christianity, but it's not okay to incite violence
against Muslims or Christians.

------
djweber
Given recent events, what this kid said was foolish - but did it really merit
imprisonment? The government would have a field day with users on services
such as Xbox Live and just about any online community that reaches a wide
demographic.

The mainstream media basically left this kid to rot, save for a few blurbs on
the 'fourth page' news. Had it not been for user-generated coverage on the net
and the generous person who bailed him out, he would have probably rotted in
jail for who knows how long. No, instead we're more interested in hearing
about celebrity babies being born or some has-been mobster in his twilight
years.

The system is broken - well, at least it's broken for anyone who respects
human rights and civil liberties. To put my hand over my heart and pledge my
loyalty to the 'land of the free, and the home of the brave'. What a joke!
Thinking that we have any say in the supposed 'democratic process' is
laughable. What does voting even do now other than make the slicksters in
Washington play musical chairs? What is it going to take to actually create
reform and install a government that cares about its people - a government
that _is_ the common people?

Apathy is imprisonment.

~~~
DrStalker
I think the recent Australian equivilent was much better handled:

[http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/teenager-
arrested...](http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/teenager-arrested-
for-8216bomb8217-tweet-during-pink8217s-concert-at-rod-laver-arena-
melbourne/story-fni0fee2-1226675857291)

"[The Police] spoke to him, they fed him and someone was there making jokes
with him. They just thought he needed a kick in the bum and that’s all he
really needed,"

He's facing charges because the management of the venue wanted to place
charges, but I expect he'll end up with something like community service and
nothing that will ruin his future job prospects.

------
Evgeny
I know money does not buy happiness, but sometimes I wish I had "unlimited
money" to be able to do thing like that.

~~~
readme
Acquiring unlimited money is definitely more likely than an informed citizenry
ever developing in the US, so I wish you the best in that pursuit!

~~~
mathgladiator
Informed citizenry... that's

oh, now I'm sad...

------
tagabek
Link to article that explains what he posted
[http://www.inquisitr.com/843742/justin-carter-teen-jailed-
fo...](http://www.inquisitr.com/843742/justin-carter-teen-jailed-for-
terroristic-facebook-comments-out-on-bail-after-anonymous-person-
posts-500000-bail/)

~~~
Blara
Thanks, had to click 3 links before the OP story gave some insight into what
had happened.

------
l33tbro
This case disgusts me. It makes me sick to the stomach. What the fuck happened
to this world.

~~~
forgottenpaswrd
What the fuck happened to America.

FTFY. Americans believe his country= the world, not true.

~~~
thomasfortes
Anyway, he has a point.

Police abuse, federal spying and over abuse of the law system by the
governments are, unfortunately, becoming a common point in many of the so
called "democratic" countries.

------
bjourne
How come the US still has a bail system? It so obviously favours those who can
pay their way through. Either you are under arrest or you are not. If you are,
you should only be able to regain your freedom by being found not guilty.

~~~
adient
Posting bail has nothing to do with being under arrest, and everything to do
with remaining detained. For many (particularly non-violent) arrests there is
no reason to detain a person until the time of their trial, which is at least
a month but can commonly be a year or longer after the original arrest date
due to a backlogged court system as well as delays necessary to prepare for a
trial. Bail system does favor people that can afford it, but so does the trial
system (afford a better lawyer), the healthcare system (afford a better
doctor), the housing system (afford a better house in a better area), etc.
That's called capitalism.

~~~
bjourne
I agree with you that it does not make sense to detain someone for a non-
violent crime unless they are likely to commit more crimes. But then they
should be released unconditionally while awaiting their trial, not dependent
upon whether they can pay a ransom fee or not. On the other hand a
psychopathic murderer is dangerous to society so he should never have the
option to pay bail.

~~~
samolang
I could be mistaken, but I don't think the idea is to force poor people to be
detained. I think the purpose is to provide an incentive for the accused to
show up to their court date. If the person posts the bail themselves, then
they get the money back when they show up. If they use a bail bondsman, then a
bounty hunter will track them down if they don't show up.

~~~
bjourne
Then why didn't this kid, and anyone else stuck in arrest that can't pay the
bail, use a bail bondsman to get out of it? It seems like a reasonable idea
but broken in practice. If I wanted to become a fugitive I wouldn't care of I
was chased by both bounty hunters and the police.

~~~
samolang
You still need to pay the bail bondsman 10% of your bail (and you don't get it
back). He probably didn't have a spare $50k. The question I have is why was
the bail $500k? That seems excessive.

------
columbo
It's crazy to think about the precedent this sets. I mean, what about public
works, books, music & articles? Could this be considered a terrorist threat
these days?

    
    
            The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. 
            Any fucking time. Any fucking day. Learn to swim,
            I'll see you down in Arizona bay. Some say a comet 
            will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers
            and tidal waves. Followed by faultlines that cannot 
            sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded 
            dipshits. Some say the end is near. Some say we'll 
            see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will cuz I 
            sure could use a vacation from this Silly shit, 
            stupid shit...  
      

I'm sure there are better examples, more scholarly ones, but that was the
first off the top of my head.

~~~
medde
They already started "fixing" books:
[http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/01/06/huck-finn-
censorship...](http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/01/06/huck-finn-censorship-
and-the-n-word-controversy/) ... (it will be so much easier/faster once
everything is digital and remotely controlled)

------
jccc
In jail he's been beaten to the point of black eyes and concussions, stripped
naked and held in solitary. While we're all debating like armchair
constitutional scholars, I'd say the $500,000 donor was motivated at least as
much by this.

[http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129617/teen-
jailed-for-facebook-comment-reportedly-beat-up-behind-bars)

~~~
wes-exp
Solitary confinement is believed by many critics to be a form of psychological
torture which can cause long-lasting damage to the brain.

[http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/solitary-
confineme...](http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/solitary-
confinement-2/)

The fact that this kid's harmless comments have triggered a rabbit hole
whereby he is on the receiving end of physical and psychological abuse while
under the "care" of the state is disgusting and appalling.

I do imagine such concerns played into the donor's decision.

------
chrischen
This whole event feels like an enormous waste of time and money by and for
everyone.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
Yeah, it's begging for an "adult" to step in, smack everybody involved upside
the head, and tell them to stop being ridiculous and get on with things that
matter.

It's really baffling that this is actually happening and a real kid is having
his life ruined over that.

------
fmavituna
Slightly off topic:

How does the bail system fit to "Equal justice under law" ?

How a justice system can call itself just when rich get a clear advantage?

~~~
clarky07
generally speaking, bail is set based on the persons means and the crime. The
amount is supposed to be an amount that will make a person show up for trial,
so a wealthy person will get a higher bail than a poor person for the same
crime. Also, the worse the crime (and punishment expected) the higher the bail

all of that is why this is so absurd. the bail is extraordinarily high for the
"crime" and for the person's level of wealth.

------
fireix
Anyone wonder who might have paid this high an amount to bail this kid out?
half a million is not a chump change for many millionaires or multi
millionaires...but could be for someone who is a multi billionaire... And
which multi billionaire would have 'soft' side to a facebook comment by a
young kid..19 yr kid...maybe someone who probably would have said brash things
himself when at that age...(not implying that he would have in same context)
...so could that be Zuckerberg? 1/2 million is a chump change for him and has
obviously affiliation to see people not stop commenting on FB. Just wondering

~~~
ccera
Whoever bailed the kid out did not pay $500,000 -- they paid either 10% or 15%
(i.e., $50,000 or $75,000) to a bail bondsman as a non-refundable bond, and
the bail bondsman then paid the $500,000 to the state.

It's still a nice gesture.

My guess is it was Johnny Depp.

------
ramblerman
Has anybody heard from the woman who set this whole thing in motion?

It would be a big boost to the case, I imagine, if she comes forward and says
"I never wanted this". And sticks up for the poor kid.

------
jokoon
I wonder how this anon person/group gathered that money.

~~~
sbarre
I am hoping this anonymous person is a Facebook employee who decided to put
their exercised stock options to good use.

~~~
jokoon
So are you a facebook employee who decided to put their ...

Whoever did this, heroes act in the shadows...

------
abjr
Who the hell were the geniuses that actually indicted him? And to sit there
for 5 months? Where's his speedy trial?

------
amykhar
So, anybody else think that maybe the anonymous donor was somebody associated
with Facebook?

------
rhizome
This is great news, but I really have to rain on the parade: what took so
long?

~~~
haakon
We were all waiting for you to step up.

~~~
rhizome
No you weren't, but are you saying that nobody who sympathized with him had
the money until now?

