

Ask HN: Would you stay somewhere just for money? - hfsktr

Short story but it gives context.<p>I got laid off and took over a year to get a new job I accepted an offer for what I think is a very low amount (&lt; $40k). I am not as confident in myself as I should be, despite high praise from coworkers&#x2F;managers. So fast forward 16 months. No reviews&#x2F;raises&#x2F;anything in that timeframe.<p>It&#x27;s a small IT consulting company (&lt; 50 people total) that when  I started had 2 programmers and myself. One left ~4 months ago. The other left this week. So now all the work falls on me. So I know have a lot of leverage.<p>Problems:<p>1. the money; I felt like I had to take what I could get after such long unemployment and probably should have brought it up a long time ago but it&#x27;s low. Second part is I don&#x27;t know how they would react if I asked for too much.<p>2. the size; I am not going to be able to move up from here. The company is small and local so it does not offer any of the things I need (or think I need) to advance to where I want to be. &#x27;<p>3. building on the last thing...I had started to look for a new job (starting with those companies that I thought would be ideal for my goals). It&#x27;s only been a couple weeks so it isn&#x27;t like I have to reject an offer but I have been trying to be more confident in my skills and applying.<p>I am very lost on what to do. I understand that I have to ask for a raise. There is no way I can be the only programmer and for what they are paying me. I am conflicted though because I am actively trying to leave, which, I think looks terrible if I ask for a raise and leave anyway. On top of that I would be leaving them with nobody.<p>Has anybody been in this situation or one similar? I can&#x27;t see anything good coming of any of this; either I sit in this job and maybe I earn more or even the number I want (unlikely), or I leave and they are high and dry and probably burn the bridge forever.<p>Thank you if you made it this far and I will take any  advice I can get. Ask questions of me if it helps.
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byoung2
Where are you located? $40k is low for the US, but maybe it's good where you
are. So I can't advise you on the specific numbers, but I can give you general
advice.

 _I don 't know how they would react if I asked for too much_ You won't know
unless you ask. You have to get over your confidence issues and just ask for
what you're worth. If you make $40k and market is $80k, then ask for at least
$80k. You should actually ask for more since you are doing the work of 2-3
people.

 _I am not going to be able to move up from here_ If career advancement is
important to you, then you should probably look for a job at a big company
where you can move up the corporate ladder. Unfortunately, you can't let that
big company know your current salary because they will start you there, and
you'll be locked into 5% a year, and you'll never get ahead.

 _I think looks terrible if I ask for a raise and leave anyway_ This is
business. If the tables were turned, they would have no problem asking you to
take a pay cut and then lay you off right afterward. You may actually need to
ask for the raise, stay for a little while, and then find a new job using your
new salary history. I personally never reveal salary history when applying for
jobs, so you may not have to go through this part.

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mc_hammer
1\. sure ask for a raise or equity every 12 months its common. as a programmer
you should make at least what the other employees or the last employee hired
makes

2\. this actually plays to your advantage when u ask for more money. "im going
to need more money since there is no carreer growth here"

3\. imho - name recognition of employees matter. also try to highlight the
successes of your employers that you helped achieved (made 500,000$ site or
brought on $600,000 client or whatever). also would stay current on tech
(nodejs go c# clojure etc - pick 1) or specialize really strongly in one thing
(fortran expert etc)

An alternative idea is to try to reduce the amount of work. Tell them to hire
another programmer or 2, expecting you to do all the work is unrealistic. then
try to automate and delegate and outsource(?) your actual work until you just
have to come in and collect your check.

I would definitely push for more programmers, and advise you to make sure u
get at least as much $ as the new guys they've hire(d). source: I've been in
this spot 2x, quit one and stayed on at one, both companies folded shortly
after!

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mavsman
I asked for a raise once just at a student job then when I didn't get it I
left for another student job. My boss didn't care too much, he was really nice
about it all but I still felt kind of stupid. Anyway, I'd say if there are as
many factors as you stated that are prohibiting you from loving this job, I
might just bank on getting a new one. Money can only appease you for so long
even if you did get the exact raise you are looking for.

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smt88
I have several friends who work for recruiting/staffing companies. They're all
dying for IT, especially developers.

Give a few staffing firms a call and leave them your resume. Don't take
anything until you get at least $80k.

Future employers won't know how little you're being paid. They'll see that you
took on increased responsibility and assume you were making a lot more.

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hfsktr
I didn't know there was a character limit and some of this was trimmed before
but as there were a few questions I can answer them as well.

I'm in WI, and from what I've read the average salary for my position should
probably be closer to 2 times what I am at now. I have 5 years but only
between 2 small employers. That's part of the reason for the confidence
issues. I just don't know how other places work.

They are interviewing and looking. We had someone training the week before but
he just walked in and resigned (after a week). So that might be a bad sign or
maybe like he said a better offer did come up.

I know the company won't be able to align with my biggest goals because the
biggest is to move from the US to the UK. That's narrowed my search when
applying but I don't think it's impossible.

Thank you to the people who have answered. I'll continue to check on this but
tomorrow I plan on getting that meeting together.

~~~
smt88
There are way more jobs in your industry here, partially because the US is so
much bigger than the UK.

If you can't find a job in the UK, don't rule out staying until you can become
more confident and desirable.

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munimkazia
From what I can make out, there is no reason why you shouldn't get paid more
money. You don't owe this company anything.. If they are left with nobody, it
is because they didn't keep their one developer happy. It doesn't look
terrible. People leave their companies for better places to work all the time.

Ask for a big raise. Do your research and figure out your market value, and
bring that number to the negotiations. If this doesn't work, start looking for
another job, and leave till you find one.

If you think its unlikely that they will give you a raise (and you don't sound
happy with your job anyway), just start looking for another job.

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MalcolmDiggs
I try not to ask for raises without some evidence of my worth/other-options.
The easiest way to do that is follow the path you're already on and just line
up another job. Get a firm offer, tell the new firm you need to a few weeks to
think about it. Take the offer to your current employer and be blunt: This is
what I'm worth and I'm leaving unless you feel the same way. Allow them to
think about it and make a counter-offer. If they say "we can't afford...blah
blah blah..." then walk away and into your new life.

You don't owe them anything...but it's courteous to give them the opportunity
to counter-offer.

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dllthomas
Always be looking for a new job. How _hard_ you're looking should depend - in
part - on how happy you are, but looking for work is a skill you need to keep
up. That should also help you have a sense of how much they should be paying
you.

