
Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio - breitling
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/norway-fm-radio-switch-off-digital-1.3923612
======
anexprogrammer
Over 60% against ... but "more channels". OK solely money driven then.

I have somewhere around 12 FM radios, ranging in price from £10 to £lots and
40 years old or newer. They all still work and often give LW and SW too.

In the UK at least DAB is mp2 and an excuse to put out thousands of channels
at horrible bit rates. Like down to 64k streams. OK for a noisy car, terrble
for at home or headphones.

They all work and put out sound in sync (nb except the new denon micro system
that for some reason must be using digital stage in processing fm meaning the
sound comes .5s later). I _often_ leave the radio on in several rooms when
moving around, so this is especially annoying.

They degrade in poor signal "nicer" than DAB and remain listenable longer. FM
has infinitely better coverage across the country.

For the battery powered ones they're _at least_ an order or two of magnitude
better battery life. DAB is horrific for portables.

~~~
kagamine
I also believe this is primarily driven by money, but also a section of
Norwegian society seems to believe that anything new and shiny simply _must be
bought_ and right away.

In a country in which environmental concerns are marketed as paramount by the
government and media there are some obvious dichotomies emerging.

For one, the electric car market markets itself as green and while they are
running on renewable energy, the costs and sources of power for building them
are reportedly a lot less environmentally friendly. But ok, a solution to
fossil fuels had to be found and that's it. For two, the mobile carriers in
Norway are heavily promoting phone contracts in which every year you send in
your phone and get the latest model phone in exchange. This has to be one of
the least environmentally friendly ideas of this century. Every 12 months you
exchange a phone that contains plastics and metals and is shipped from another
continent just to have the latest piece of bling. Yet no-one seems to care.
Another examples is that the speed limit on the motorways was raised a couple
of years ago from 100 kph max to 110. So we're all burning too much fuel but
now we're being told it's ok to burn more and faster. It doesn't add up. I am
meant to care about the environment or not? Or does the environment only count
when people can profit from it?

The radio swap over is the same. It looks to a conspiracy theorist like an
attempt to shame people in "old" cars into replacing them with a "see, I'm not
poor!" model. There have been reports in the news here over the years about
there being so many old cars on the roads and that it is a problem (it is
presented as a safety and environmental problem by the govt. and media). The
reason I think there are so many older cars is because new cars cost _a lot_
mostly because tax on a new car is so high, and this leads to owners actually
following service intervals and keeping cars in good condition. Finding a car
with a near complete service history in Norway is common. Maybe there would be
less old cars if the govt. wasn't taxing them so high. An electric car is
still out my price range, even with the (now vulgar) tax breaks given to Tesla
owners.

~~~
varjag
> For one, the electric car market markets itself as green and while they are
> running on renewable energy, the costs and sources of power for building
> them are reportedly a lot less environmentally friendly.

This is the kind of made up on spot arguments you hear from ICE vehicle
owners. Until they switch to EV :)

"Manufacturing a mid-sized EV with an 84-mile range results in about 15
percent more emissions than manufacturing an equivalent gasoline vehicle."

[http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-
vehicles/life-...](http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-
vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions#.WG9fXZ7NRkp)

15pct is not anywhere enough to offset the lifetime footprint of a fossils-
driven vehicle, especially in case of Norway where effectively all electricity
is hydro.

~~~
kagamine
Sort of just what I said. I did state "reportedly" and not provide any
sources. I don't think I was being unfair to the EV market. However, buying a
new car and junking the old one has to be less energy efficient than owning an
old car and trying to use it less while utilizing public transport. Public
transport is something I could have mentioned in my original post as it is not
prioritized enough here in Norway and car culture is. If the govt were
serious, really serious about the environment then public transport would be
much better than it is currently.

Edit: I just remembered another reason why I think EV is about money and not
only about the environment: diesel engines could easily(ish) be adapted to run
on renewable plant based fuel[1], but no govt is interested in promoting this.
In fact they do the opposite, they tax the end user quite highly for pouring
vegetable oil into cars even though a diesel engine run on veg oil is
emissions free. The conversions wouldn't be very much more than when leaded
fuel was phased out and we all put new heads on our petrol engines (in the
Land Rover community at least we did this). New diesel motors could be
manufactured to specs able to cope with plant based fuel (especially with a
bit of engineering enterprise). If some one can give a good answer as to why
this has never been a viable option except for hobbyists I would be interested
to read it.

edit 2: without govt. or trade backing this company doing said conversions
folded 3 years ago. But what a future we might have seen.
[http://www.dieselveg.com/](http://www.dieselveg.com/)

1\.
[http://www.reedx.net/landrover/mods/vegoil/p2.php](http://www.reedx.net/landrover/mods/vegoil/p2.php)

~~~
richmarr
> ...even though a diesel engine run on veg oil is emissions free.

This just isn't true. Local emissions of bio-diesel are comparable to petro-
diesel.

When you factor in that C02 is absorbed during manufacture, biodiesel is
estimated to have 45%-65% lower net emissions than petro-diesel, but that
ignores the fact that you just repurposed viable farmland (or in some cases
rainforest) and changed its C02 profile, potentially reducing or erasing any
net benefit.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_biodie...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_biodiesel)

Another challenge is what to do with all the waste glycerol (100kg per ton of
biodiesel), since prices crashed a few years back

~~~
ferongr
>Another challenge is what to do with all the waste glycerol (100kg per ton of
biodiesel), since prices crashed a few years back

Vape it obviously.

------
geff82
OK, so you switch off a completely fine technology with billions invested,
rendering useless multi-millions of fine working radios. For what? I think
this will be the death blow to radio. People will not go DAB if not absolutely
needed, they will essentially try to go "internet" directly and thereby
eliminating classic "radio". Maybe you'll use the DAB in your car sometimes,
but I can't imagine it will happen that you replace every FM radio in your
house (alarm clock, kitchen radio, TV, legacy hifi-systems, etc...) with DAB
now. In those cases, you'll switch so a full online solution like one of the
gazillions internet radio stations. FM is dead with DAB. My prediction:
"Radio" will something you'll probably find in cars - but almost nowhere else.
The user base will be crippled totally, rendering "classic" radio into
something unprofitable, as revenue from ads will go down. But as I am a
digital child, I also look forward: being a podcaster now in the right
countries could be unexpectedly monetarily interesting.

~~~
Already__Taken
Wouldn't we be better using this spectrum for even more data to stream
anything, including DAB?

~~~
scholia
FM is amazingly cheap, and green. You can reach millions of listeners with
high quality sound. In many cases, you can reach tens of millions for exactly
the same cost. Until you need another mast, the extra cost per user is $0.

Smartphone chips already include FM so there's no extra cost to reaching
mobile users, with no extra bandwidth consumption. (Not FM's fault if some
smartphone makers don't use the FM capabilities and make users consume
expensive and limited cellular spectrum instead.)

The drawbacks with FM are (1) the limited number of stations and (2) users
can't choose their own music. That's why there's a market for different
services.

However, there's still a market for live radio: it's free and has billions of
listeners. It's also a very efficient way of handling phone-ins and live
commentaries on sports events, among other things.

~~~
gozur88
Broadcast is fine and will always have a place, but there's no reason to use
analog any more. It's too inefficient from a spectrum perspective.

~~~
scholia
Well, there is a very good reason to use analogue: it's already in place and
working, and there are hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of analogue
radios.

The problem is that attempts to introduce digital systems have generally not
been successful.

If radio didn't exist, you'd obviously start digital services. But it does
exist, and it's deeply entrenched.

------
timonoko
FM radio in Norway sucked so much because of mountains. Every fjord had its
own tiny repeater, but only if there was at least one inhabitant, otherwise
you heard nothing. The cell-phone digital network is much more advanced, the
antennas are on mountain tops and there is always coverage within few hundred
meters.

~~~
gravypod
What is a fjord?

~~~
whiskers
It's a steep-sided inlet. They're award winning you know.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord)

~~~
Lio
Lovely crinkly edges.

------
wyldfire
On one hand, spectrum is a precious resource and no one would ever forfeit it
without a mandate. OTOH don't you just love the simplicity of the FM radio? I
can say that I've never found one that doesn't work.

Sometimes I don't want to troubleshoot, I just want to listen to the radio on
my way to work. ;)

> 'We are simply not ready for this yet'

Well, Norway, maybe if you were a big exporter or even importer of
automobiles, your legislation would light a fire under some major
manufacturers. But you're just not big enough of a consumer.

~~~
userbinator
Yet FM still can't beat AM for simplicity:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio)

~~~
jjoonathan
It's even easier to demodulate at high power :D

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHSuInSkHtA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHSuInSkHtA)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82s5Q3GIO9I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82s5Q3GIO9I)

~~~
acchow
I have no idea how this works.

~~~
digi_owl
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snibt3CNqBA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snibt3CNqBA)

Effectively AM recreates a sound wave using the EM spectrum in the most direct
way possible.

When the clamp is held just right, an arc forms between it and the mast that
recreates the AM signal with enough energy to vibrate the nearby air.

------
askvictor
The article didn't talk about why? It's not as if the FM bandwidth is
particularly valuable, being quite a low frequency. Unlike digital tv, there
doesn't seem to be a particularly pressing reason to do this; if broadcasters
are happy to keep broadcasting on FM, why stop them?

~~~
krkoch
It's because the infrastructure for FM is quite expensive to run. Because of
all the fjords and valleys, you need many weak transmitters to avoid
reflections. Also, because it's FM, they can't overlap in frequency.

With DAB, two time-delayed signals (either reflections or multiple towers
transmitting the same data-fountain) will enhance the signal. This means that
you can have fewer towers.

~~~
winter_blue
> It's because the infrastructure for FM is quite expensive to run.

Won't the free market decide if it's too expensive to run? Or is even radio
_run by the state_ in Norway? Otherwise, why prohibit private companies from
licensing & broadcasting FM radio? I mean the free market would decide stop to
broadcasting when it's not profitable for them anymore.

Or is everything state-run in Norway? When I read "one member of the ruling
coalition was scathing" and "MP from the Progress Party", I'm thinking, the
state (and these MPs) shouldn't even be involved and thinking about this, and
should leave it to the free market.

~~~
wodenokoto
> Or is even radio run by the state in Norway?

As a Scandinavian, that is kinda fun to read. Of course Radio is state run. I
still get surprised when I hear commercials on the privately owned stations.
Private radio stations pretty much became a thing after I grew up and stopped
listening to Radio.

When I was a kid, there were maybe one commercial station and they didn't air
in my city. Commercial TV-station were still mostly broadcasting from England,
due to the former state monopoly.

To many Scandinavians this is the most natural thing in the world.

~~~
Raphmedia
This makes a lot more sense. The article came off as a ban on FM. It's
actually only that the state will no longer put money into FM radio and
infrastructure.

~~~
gpvos
_> The article came off as a ban on FM._

Interesting cultural difference; I would never have it interpreted it like
that. I did wonder whether the commercial stations would _also_ leave FM. A
large country like Norway is likely to have only state broadcasting in its
more remote areas, but additionally commercial broadcasters in the more
populated regions.

~~~
kwhitefoot
As far as I can tell the commercial stations are leading the way.

------
dagss
Consensus from a lunch table in Norway: It was stupid to spend money on DAB
now, it happens right as people move from radio to streaming. Many will move
to streaming on 4G instead of DAB (which seems to have as good coverage or
better, at least for me...then consider if the money spent on DAB had been
spent on cellular instead).

The populist party that kicked it off in the first place is now the only party
to oppose it, now that they know it is too late to do something about it...

~~~
audunw
I doubt that 4G is capabable of replacing FM/DAB. Radio is broadcast, 4G is
individual streams. For a whole morning queue full of cars, that's a _lot_ of
bandwidth.

Probably the next generation will be good enough to handle it.

But this still ignores other benefits of DAB over mobile data. One is
emergency broadcasts, the other is future-proofing. DAB will probably be a
standard for decades. But what if you want built-in streaming in your car,
which standard do you support? There are none. You have to have apps. Do you
think your car will still get software updates for those in 10 years?

I also think we tech geeks overestimate the popularity of streaming in cars.
Hell, I'm a geek but even I actually prefer radio when driving.

~~~
henrikschroder
> For a whole morning queue full of cars, that's a lot of bandwidth.

Yes, but that's a problem for the telco's to solve, if they want to continue
selling mobile internet. So they have strong incentives to solve it.

> One is emergency broadcasts

How is having to buy an expensive device to listen to emergency broadcasts a
benefit? One of the reasons DAB was scrapped in Sweden was this. Everyone and
their grandmother has a bunch of FM radios already, no purchases necessary,
it's deployed, it works. Shutting down FM means less people will be able to
listen to emergency broadcasts. That's bad, not a benefit.

Besides, most modern smartphones have emergency broadcast functionality that's
accessible to local authorities. And everyone and their grandmother already
has a smartphone.

> the other is future-proofing. DAB will probably be a standard for decades.

DAB or DAB+ ? The poor bleeding edgers who bought a DAB radio got pretty
pissed when they had to throw it out and buy a DAB+ radio instead. All five of
them. Not a good track record exactly. Meanwhile, FM has been going strong for
almost 100 years now.

> But what if you want built-in streaming in your car, which standard do you
> support?

There's two: iOS CarPlay and Android Auto. Works great. Everyone already has a
smartphone, and can then use whatever streaming app or service they want.

> I also think we tech geeks overestimate the popularity of streaming in cars

The only thing being overestimated is the general public's eagerness to run
out and buy a DAB+ car radio. It's pretty much at zero.

Look, broadcast radio is going away just like broadcast television. It's a
dying medium. And to force a change while it's dying will only hasten its
demise.

~~~
XorNot
Emergency broadcasts should run on AM radio if we're worried about
reliability. AM is brain dead simple to demodulate to the point you can do it
accidentally with the right length of wire really.

Kill FM, reserve AM for an emergency band.

~~~
dagss
In Norways case I wonder if AM does not work due to the hilly terrain or
something. Don't think there are any stations, I never listened to AM at least
and just barely heard about it.

~~~
kwhitefoot
There aren't any as far as I can tell. I think it would have pretty horrible
performance with lots of multipath distortion.

------
ptaipale
What do we do with more channels that we can't listen? If you really need a
little bit of bandwidth around 100 MHz for other use, you could cut the
spectrum from FM radio and still keep it running.

The place where I usually listen to radio is the car. Car radios don't have
DAB receivers. They all have FM receivers. And these days most cars have radio
units that are integrated to the car electronics, steering wheel controls etc
- so it's not that easy to just get a new radio that fits the hole.

If I get rid of FM radio, I will not replace it with DAB. I'll listen to some
streaming service over IP.

~~~
mrweasel
The whole car radio situation hasn't be handled correctly by politicians, at
least not here in Denmark. When regular service began, in 2002 in the case of
Denmark, politicians should have parsed regulation that required all new cars
to be delivered with DAB radio within a certain time frame.

You can get a DAB/DAB+ radio in your new car, but you'll have to pay extra. At
this point is should simply be the default, otherwise a migration will never
be well received.

~~~
Matthias247
I agree. Here in germany it was also planned to shutdown FM in favor for DAB
already for 2010. It was then canceled and postponed due to the fact that
nobody has a DAB receiver.

But of course nobody wants to get a DAB receiver as long as they cost 200€
extra, and therefore FM is still the standard in cars. As cars have a super
long lifetime that means every car that is now sold with FM works against a
FM->DAB switch in 10 years. So even the new plans like "we switch FM off in
2025 if the majority has a DAB radio then" won't work. There should now (or
even multiple years ago) have some regulations that car manufacturers have to
offer DAB for the same price as FM to get more traction. In the meantime
building DAB receivers is often even not more expensive than FM if both are
build on top of a software defined radio. However car manufacturers still sell
DAB extra for maximising profit.

~~~
ptaipale
BTW, technical requirements for cars are EU-wide. Country specific
requirements for "a car sold here must have a DAB radio" are an illegal
obstacle for free movement of goods, or a state subsidy to domestic industry.

So, DAB radio won't be in all cars unless DAB radio is an EU wide requirement.
Not happening overnight.

Requiring things like winter tyres is OK because they can be installed
separately. I'd be happy to insist that all cars in EU must have block heaters
and cabin electric outlets, it would surely reduce prices here a bit.

------
mongol
Sweden narrowly avoided this, there was a very strong drive, but in the end
the responsibie minister halted it. One of the few pieces of happy news in
later years.

------
th0ma5
It is a real shame that the US went with the proprietary HD Radio scheme. The
devices are so expensive and there hardly are any available. Just now I
couldn't even find anything less than $100. What a scam. I feel sorry for all
the radio stations that wasted money on this. Would DAB be able to gain ground
in the US?

~~~
nicky0
Be careful what you wish for, DAB is pretty horrible too.

~~~
Angostura
In what respect? I have DAB at home and in the car in the UK and find it
reliable and decent quality.

~~~
scholia
DAB sound quality can be as good as you like, but as implemented, it's
generally very low. (Stations use low bit-rates to reduce costs.) On average,
in fact, DAB sound quality is much lower than FM, _assuming_ you're in a good
signal area and/or have a decent FM aerial.

You also need a lot more expensive masts to provide DAB coverage. In many
places where you get poor FM reception, you get "bubbling mud" or no DAB
reception at all.

~~~
skrause
You must be from the UK. The "bubbling mud" is a property of the old DAB which
also uses MP2 for the audio (an 80s technology codec).

Here in Germany it's all DAB+ which has better error correction with a more
robust signal (and no bubbling). Radio stations in Germany also tend to use
96-128 kbit AAC/HE-AAC which sounds way better than FM radio.

~~~
scholia
Yes, I've already mentioned that.

See some of my other comments, including: "Some countries have stations at
48kbps. The UK is leading the drive to lower sound quality with DAB+ stations
on the SDL multiplex at 32kbps."

 _> Radio stations in Germany also tend to use 96-128 kbit AAC/HE-AAC which
sounds way better than FM radio._

Lucky you. Most UK stations are on 80kbps with MP2, and we have music stations
broadcasting at 64kbps in mono. The BBC often manages 112-128kbps but only ONE
station does better than that: BBC classical music station Radio 3 is at
160-192kbps. No DAB+ station broadcasts at more than 32kbps.

In other words, there isn't a single UK radio station that reaches FM quality.
None of them sounds way better.

If you want to feel my pain, see
[http://www.wohnort.org/DAB/uknat.html](http://www.wohnort.org/DAB/uknat.html)

Look at London 3, which I get at home, and weep....

------
snom380
There's a huge marketing / awareness campaign going on right now in Norway to
get people to upgrade their FM radios.

I wonder if the radio stations will realize too late that they're throwing
away their one advantage (ubiquity) and maybe the option some people will
choose when the car radio stops working is to not listen to radio at all.

~~~
dagss
Many will definitely just switch their habit to Spotify instead, will be
interesting to see the numbers...

------
bearcobra
I visited my hometown over the holidays, and the first thing I did after
getting into the rental car was tune into the local Alt Rock FM station. The
playlists (and most of the DJs) haven't change in the 10 years since high
school. I kinda loved it.

~~~
BurningFrog
My local alt-rock station has also turned itself into a golden oldies station
without changing anything.

------
semi-extrinsic
It is a complete and utter travesty perpetrated by politicians who were
convinced by snake oil/electronics salesmen of the (highly dubious)
superiority of DAB, and now have too much skin in the game to turn back.

Personally, I've been working lately on building an ESP8266/VS1053 based
webradio into my nice old wooden 1960s radio. I'm using the variable plate
capacitor for the AM tuner as input for channel selection, so for all the
world it will look like a still-working FM tuner. Total BOM cost will be <$30.

~~~
alkonaut
Exactly. It nearly happened in neighboring Sweden, but luckily the plans were
cancelled.

I mean just imagine that the plans to scrap FM and go digital were made
_before_ mobile broadband, podcasts and streaming music.

Before they would have sworn billions, every person and every car would
already be streaming internet audio anyway.

That's what will happen in norway.

------
wonko1
I hope AM doesn't end up going the same way too. It would be sad if it wasn't
possible to throw a radio together using a few discrete components.

~~~
skrause
In Germany AM is already completely dead, the last station shut down about a
year ago.

------
brian-armstrong
If you're going to take FM radio and slice into a bunch of digital channels,
it'd be interesting to make one or two citizens' bands. I know CB is kind of a
mess but I like the idea that the music radio in your car could receive and
perhaps even transmit on the local band.

------
gravypod
Well congrats to the hams in this country. They're going to get a huge
bandwidth that others would be envious enough.

They could also explain to people that just switching modes isn't going to
make reception better. If you're having propagation issues then you'd be much
better off working on getting repeaters setup on high mountains.

~~~
dtech
Won't the spectrum be used/sold for other purposes? Otherwise stopping FM
isn't much use.

~~~
audunw
> Otherwise stopping FM isn't much use.

I think the main motivation to shut down FM is that now that DAB is built-out
sufficiently (or so they say), running both at the same time is expensive. FM
transmitters are supposedly quite power hungry and expensive to operate.

It will take at least a decade or two to free up the FM band for other uses
anyway. Norway will probably wait and use it in a way that aligns with the
rest of the world, rather than finding its own local use for the spectrum.

~~~
TheGirondin
>It will take at least a decade or two to free up the FM band for other uses
anyway. Norway will probably wait and use it in a way that aligns with the
rest of the world, rather than finding its own local use for the spectrum.

And that's the difference between an entrepreneurial, capitalist minded
society and a socialist minded one.

~~~
scholia
It's not clear that there are any good alternative uses for the FM spectrum.

The UK plan is to move the national stations to DAB and use the old FM
bandwidth for community and local radio.

My personal expectation is that the FM spectrum will be taken over by pirate
stations.

~~~
Johnythree
It will be immediately used with for long-distance Wireless Internet.

Testing has already started.

~~~
scholia
OK, where are they testing it?

------
kriro
I wonder how smooth the switch will be (the article says cars are a big
problem due to the price). I'd imagine quite a few people won't upgrade their
car radio and you'd think...so what radio is way to retro let's just stream
stuff and listen to mp3s/ogg.

I don't know if owning a radio is legally required in Norway but if it isn't I
can see the radio ownership going down. Once again you may ask so what?

The biggest issue (for me) is that radio plays an essential part in crisis
management. Imagine a long term power outage or some other crisis. With radios
it's mostly a matter of keeping stations running and making sure the
population knows that a battery powered (or crank powered) radio such as a car
radio will work during a power outage. That's one of the few reliable ways of
mass-communicating important information during power outages.

~~~
dagss
It would be cheaper to develop a system for mass-SMS in a crisis and publicize
it than to keep FM/DAB running, and I bet the delivery rate of the crisis
message would be an order of magnitude higher.

~~~
kieranelby
Not if the crisis involves mains power outage - cell towers don't generally
have backup power so mobile phones will be useless.

Edit: Adding generators/batteries to a significant fraction of cell towers is
(probably) impractical due to them being bulky, expensive, and attractive to
thieves.

~~~
lb1lf
This is not correct in the case of Norway, at least - I believe (mind,
believe, I do not know for sure) that telcos are mandated by law to have
emergency power supplies available; whenever we have a massive power outage,
cell service stays up for hours, if not days afterwards.

Them being bulky is a major deterrent to theft, as a lot of our cellphone
infrastructure is way out in the boonies and not really accessible unless you
REALLY want to get to it...

~~~
Broken_Hippo
It isn't the Telcos I think about in this situation.

It is my own phone batter. Or my spouse's - he has a dying phone with a dying
battery, which doesn't always like to hold a charge. I'll be good for a while,
sure, but once I'm dead... I'm dead. If something would happen late at night,
after I've fiddled with my phone all day, I might start out with _very_ little
power. Early in the day, and I could make it last most the weekend.

~~~
lb1lf
Ah, that figures. Mea culpa. In that case, a $20 power bank should provide at
least a couple of full charges - but if you're anything like me, you'll forget
to top it up at regular intervals and will find that its capacity is greatly
reduced when you need it... :-/ (I cheat; I have a small diesel generator for
use during outages - we're typically without utility power a couple of days
every winter.

~~~
douche
Still, any solution based around a smartphone is going to be subpar, compared
to the dirt-cheap FM receiver that can run for weeks or months on a couple of
ubiquitous AA batteries.

------
frozenport
The NPR One radio app costs me an extra $20 dollars a month due to high data
usage. And NPR gets none of that cash. If my phone had user facing FM tuning I
could probably contribute directly to content creators.

I wonder if shutting down FM and replacing it with much more expensive mobile
data is a conspiracy by cellular carriers?

~~~
rtpg
Are you sure your phone doesn't have an FM radio?

A lot of phones have it built-in (just need to have headphones plugged in for
the antenna), but don't advertise it much.

~~~
frozenport
But without a custom rom it isn't exposed. This is part of the conspiracy by
my mobile carrier to make me buy their hella expensive data plan.

~~~
khedoros1
The radio in mine is (in an HTC One A9). I almost never have headphones with
me though, so it's not usually of any practical use to me.

------
Aoyagi
Sure, why keep something that's cheap and easily accessible operational when
you can have something that's easier to monetise, track, and whatnot...

~~~
rikkus
How is DAB easier to track?

------
voltagex_
DAB+ sounds terrible to me compared to a (tuned) FM station - AFAICT it's
48kbit AAC.

~~~
gambiting
The worst thing about DAB for me is that any signal interruption causes
complete lack of sound, and then my car takes at least 5 seconds to tune back
in. It's extremely infuriating - I much prefer FM radio which gets noisy, but
at least you can continue listening, even when driving through poor signal
area.

~~~
Johnythree
Only with cheap radios.

Any advanced receiver will be constantly hunting for the best backup channel
so the change over is undetectable.

~~~
gambiting
I have a top of the line, 2016 Mercedes-AMG - you'd think that would have the
best DAB receiver you can have,no? I mean, obviously it doesn't because it
does this, but as a consumer I have no control over the type of DAB receiver
in my car. So saying that oh it's fine, because only cheap receivers do that
does not help - especially since FM behaves consistently, no matter how
expensive receiver you are using.

------
ringe
This is all about lobbying politicians. Very hard to understand why they want
to set aside separate bandwidth for different sorts of media, when Internet
access would provide all we needed.

We have digital radio, digital television broadcast, separate emergency
frequencies and so goes the list.

What about gathering around standard that work and are already in place? What
about making cell phone and Internet connectivity more robust?

But no. Let's throw billions in taxes down the drain. For instance: The
emergency network fails when there's a storm. Then we're back to RHF!

From the inhabitant perspective, this is all a power party. A few people with
high positions get to make big decisions and pat each other's back. I'm sure
the CEOs of the businesses getting the contracts are good at patting backs
too.

Good thing we already pay so much taxes we don't even notice the difference.

Except for the bumpy roads and understaffed elderly homes.

~~~
Angostura
Errr - are you really suggesting that we really move all broadcast media to
TCP/IP? You're going to give free streaming plans to everyone in the country?

Or does it perhaps make sense to use dedicated broadcast technology for free-
to-air broadcasts?

~~~
Johnythree
The disadvantage of radio broadcasting is that it ties up valuable spectrum,
has only one direction, and only allows a limited number of channels.

The advantage of streaming internet is that it allows unlimited channels,
while only using bandwidth for one channel at a time for each user.

Depending on the number of channels you wish to provide, and the number of
users in each area, there is a point where Internet streaming is way ahead.

------
msh
I know I am properly a outlier but how many people on HN actually listens to
radio over FM/DAB/Other non IP systems?

I dont remember when I last listened to radio. Even in the car the
entertainment is one or more of the following from the connected phone:

\- Streaming or locally stored music \- Podcasts (which may include shows
produced by radio stations). \- Audiobooks.

At home its the same, either played directly on the playback device (sonos) or
from the phone.

I really dont see the allure of flow radio, I hate listening to something I
have no control over and if there are commercials its even worse.

For my sake they could shutdown all radio broadcasts and use the bandwidth for
mobile broadband. (Ok, maybe keep a single station running for emergency
broadcasts).

~~~
niftich
You're gonna get self-selecting responses to this, but I listen to FM a good
amount -- maybe not every day, but several times a week, mostly in the car.
For me, it's a way to attune to mainstream music or a particular station
format and briefly escape my otherwise carefully curated playlists, and
available at no cost to me, unlike some smartphone streaming service.

In truth, to me the method of delivery is not relevant: it could be IP or OTA
Digital or Analog. Rather, I sometimes enjoy the unattended, externally
curated format of radio, vs. having to select the next playing item myself.

------
gumby
I like that the UK will switch over once usage reaches 50% -- abandoning a
huge number of listeners! They should abandon it when it becomes vestigial --
say more than L5K/listener/year or something like that.

Clearly money or techno-determinism is at play.

~~~
paublyrne
I believe they said they will look again at the issue once usage exceeds 50%.
Which would probably mean a decision to switch including a multiyear runway.

~~~
scholia
Yes. Unfortunately the numbers are based on cheating the public. The 50% isn't
50% of people using DAB, it's 50% of listening to digital sources in total,
_including_ DAB.

This could allow them to switch off FM even if more people listen to FM than
DAB radio, depending on the growth of other forms of digital listening.

------
barking
I have never liked FM radio. Far too much time wasted fiddling with telescopic
aerials. I've always listened to AM broadcasts in preference. I don't listen
to much radio at all any more except via podcasts.

------
vassy
DAB radio in my car stopped working and it costs £650 to fix. The service guys
said they have to replace the whole centre console. As I won't pay that much,
it's FM radio or Bluetooth for me.

~~~
gambiting
To be fair, that's usually the only solution official dealerships know. When
the CD drive stopped working in my LR Discovery 3, the garage quoted me almost
£1000 for replacing the whole unit. I took it to an electronics repair shop,
who took it apart, replaced something inside, and ended up charging me £100
for the whole repair.

------
riffic
This seems like a severely premature move.

------
sweetjesus
What they should do is turn off the spectrum a bit each year ranging from the
top frequency down. That way people can adjust, stations can move on the dial,
and there is no cold turkey. In the US this might mean I could hear my
favorite Top-40(tm)songs only 24*60mins/4mins/40songs times a day, (and who
knows if I would be willing to buy [obnoxious furniture store ad] furniture
any more at that rate) but it would be a resonable way to do it.

------
tyfon
As a Norwegian I support this. However it would be better to focus on 4g +
streaming rather than DAB.

------
oli5679
It's interesting to note how valuable spectrum is for mobile internet use.
Think about the bandwidth taken up by FM radio broadcasting next time your in
a city with your phone struggling with sluggish connection.

------
darkerside
Some simple math- 1,500 crowns * 2M unequipped cars = 3B crown

That's 3B in capital costs (plus the cost of radios in unequipped homes) to
save 250M/year. Seems expensive, but not totally out of the realm of reason?

------
m23khan
What are there plans for the AM frequency? I rely heavily on my AM radio
stations here in Canada to get my daily dose of local/national/international
news!!

~~~
scholia
Ideally, long wave, AM and FM spectrum will be used for DRM (Digital Radio
Mondiale) instead.

To quote Wikipedia: "The principle of DRM is that bandwidth is the limited
element, and computer processing power is cheap; modern CPU-intensive audio
compression techniques enable more efficient use of available bandwidth, at
the expense of processing resources."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale)

------
lightedman
For more channels? I would've thought a country like Norway would use that
bandwidth to make some sort of high-power long-range public-access network.

------
a1studmuffin
Don't most smartphones have emergency broadcasts built-in these days? Who
doesn't have their phone on them when they're driving in a car?

~~~
khedoros1
If I remember, it plays some kind of tone, and pops the alert up in text.

> Who doesn't have their phone on them when they're driving in a car?

Who's checking their texts when they're driving a car? Thankfully, that's a
ticketable offense in my area now.

~~~
mgv11
Ticketable offense probably most of the places. Still something that happens
all the effin time.

------
douche
As a US citizen, I cannot imagine a world without FM radio. It's almost the
only option for in-vehicle audio. I've heard of such a thing as AM radio, but
outside of billboards stating that accident information on interstate highways
is available via that frequency, I have no connection to it. I've heard pray-
tell that NPR broadcasts on such frequencies as well, but I can neither
confirm nor deny that.

I suspect that Clearchannel and the other one that have effectively bought up
monopoly rights to the FM spectrum would fight this tooth and nail.

~~~
an_account
AM is a great place to listen to NPR, and tons of talk shows + sports are on
AM.

And FM being the only option for in car audio? That's crazy. There's cell data
and predownloaded music, podcast and audiobooks.

Though I agree that tons of people would fight this change in America.

------
Sami_Lehtinen
Finland used DAB since 1998. It was given up on 2005 because nobody actually
used it.

------
paulofalcao
So stupid, I am completely against this.

