

Am I charging too high for design? - ashraful

Hi. I am a freelance web designer. My portfolio is at www.madebyargon.com<p>I generally price my designs at $3000-$3500 for a full website redesign/ user interface design. This usually comes to around $40-50/hour which I think is fair.<p>I have noticed however that a lot of prospective clients, who absolutely love my design, find my prices to be too high.<p>Am I charging too high? How much would you pay for a redesign of your website or webapp?
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alexchu
I think the problem comes down to the kind of market and audience you're
attracting. As a freelancer you really have to position yourself for the right
market that corresponds to your rates. HN is a very designer/entrepreneur
driven community. my guess is that people on HN would want to spend less money
on design and more on development.

I would update your website itself also. To me your website doesn't speak the
same level of sophistication as the piece you see in the portfolio. Your
website represents your self and your identify as a designer. Dress it up a
bit, this is your best chance to really showcase your design sense and
originality. As many other people mentioned before, package your product well.

As a full time freelancer, you should spend at least 30-50% of your time
marketing yourself and networking with potential clients. Building a solid
customer database and having these customers refer you to perspective
employees are most important if you want to have a consistent flow of work.

Are you really putting your work out there? Here's a quick checklist to get
the ball rolling.

1\. Do you regularly update your portfolio with new pieces? 2\. Do you have a
profile on all the designer networks? (behance.net is a good one to start
with). 3\. Do you keep in touch with your past clients and make sure they're
happy with your work? 4\. Have you considered starting a blog that would
attract potential customers with valuable information about graphic design and
design theories that they could use for their own projects?

I think with the quality and level of work in your portfolio you certainly
deserve to get that rate. I've worked with other designers who charge twice as
much as you do, but then again, they all presented their web presence really
well. When a customer tells you your rates are too expensive, it doesn't
necessarily mean that they don't have the budget. It could mean that they
don't perceive your value at the price you quoted. As long as you can convince
your clients that you're worth every penny and MORE, you should have no
problem getting the rates you want.

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maxbrown
The sites look really good - I think they warrant $40-50/hr.

You may want to consider offering multiple "packages" if you don't want to
lose those clients. $3000/$40 = 75 hours... if you offer a package that's 25
or 50 hours, you can lower the price and maybe keep the client.

That said,

1\. You have to set expectations clearly - if they're not paying for a $3k
website, they're not getting a $3k website. (most people will still expect
that quality even if they're paying less, for whatever reason) Be clear with
them about what they're getting.

2\. If you have enough work at that price, don't bother. My guess from you
posting this is that you want their business.

~~~
ashraful
Yes, I'm not getting enough work, and 9 out of 10 people who contact me go
elsewhere after hearing my prices, even though all of them love my designs.

The problem with the whole "packages" is that I don't do that. Most people who
come to me just want a new design and aren't concern about whether it takes me
10 hours or a hundred. Like-wise I quote a fixed price and not an hourly rate,
most being in the $3000-$3500 range.

~~~
thomaslee
So 9/10 people come to you, most of the time you quote them $3000/$3500
irrespective of their budget and they walk away?

If you don't want to call them "packages", that's fine -- but if you're giving
fixed-price quotes of $3000-$3500 irrespective of the client when all they
really want/need is 10-20 hours of your time you might be doing yourself a
disservice.

By the same token, if your experience tells you that you really need the 75
hours to do a good job for a client, then don't sell yourself short.

Maybe you need to ask your clients to clarify what their expectations are in
terms of hours and incorporate that into your quotes?

Maybe _you_ need to clarify that you can be flexible with the overall price in
exchange for less time (e.g. maybe do fewer revisions, simpler designs,
whatever -- I'm not really a design expert).

Or maybe it's time to start billing by the hour? :)

Of course, you may hold yourself to a high standard and feel that you require
that much time to do a "good job" by your clients. That's fine too, but
understand that's a business decision that will leave you with fewer clients.

Just my two cents, but hope it provides some food for thought.

~~~
ashraful
Once a client gives me some specifics regarding their projects, I can estimate
how much time it'll take, and I quote a fixed price based on that. In most
cases my estimate is either spot on, or off by at most an hour.

The problem with offering a "lower price product" is that none of the clients
want them, although it is possible that I simply haven't marketed it properly.

~~~
thomaslee
So they don't want a lower priced product, but they don't want the higher
priced product either?

Confused now. :)

Is it the price or the outcome you're talking about here? I'm not talking
about offering a "lower price product", I'm talking about offering your
clients a little flexibility to suit their budget (while covering your own
bases in terms of time spent on any project).

In any case, there's nothing to stop you from communicating that you're
willing to discuss options on the quote if they're willing to make concessions
wrt your time/revisions.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding. Good luck all the same!

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notahacker
9 out of 10 people are just window shopping and will contact several other web
designers with the same brief.

Additionally, you have the problem of people expecting you to be cheap because
one of the few things your site tells me about you (other than showing me some
sound enough finished work) is that you're based in a low income country and
know how to use the right tools.

People that want a cheap offshore guy that knows their way around Photoshop go
straight to the enquiry form. People that are prepared to pay more care about
whether your design goes through multiple iterations before the final version,
whether you'll work with them to make it reflect their company image, whether
you understand usability, whether you've worked with the same clients over a
number of years etc. - they'll probably skip your site altogether in favour of
the next one with more marketing fluff.

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gexla
It's not all prices and design skills. It's also marketing. You need to sell
yourself. If you aren't getting the work then you are in the wrong markets or
you aren't doing a good enough job at the sales part.

Also, there's no way that you can throw out a "general" price. The
requirements of the sites and the clients are all different. Aside from the
workload differences, you can double your prices for some clients and get away
with it just because you get that gut feeling about it.

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damoncali
It's a marketing thing. Startups won't pay crap because we're cheap. Socialite
fashionistas working the art gallery circuit will drop big money on pretty
pictures. You just need to find someone who really values what you do (which
is quite good in my opinion).

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calebhicks
Assuming you are targeting the correct market for your work (which other
commenters have addressed), then you need to let basic supply/demand gauge
your pricing.

So the question to ask yourself is this: do you have enough work? If you have
more work than you want, raise your prices until you have less work. If you
have less than you want, consider lowering your prices. If you are already
taking less than you feel you should, then focus directly on who you are
targeting and how you are approaching them.

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sagacity
A bit late in the day, but FWIW, here is the clickable link:

<http://www.madebyargon.com>

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ashraful
I should also add that I'm based in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Does this warrant a
lower price, since I'm unable to meet with clients face-to-face?

~~~
plinkplonk
"I should also add that I'm based in Dhaka, Bangladesh."

If you mention that upfront, expect a certain set of people to expect you to
do the work for 100$ (or less!). Blame outsourcing. ( I live in India fwiw). I
make no claim that this is what is happening (I am a developer and know
nothing about design and the rates thereof) Just something to be aware of.
Good Luck.

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ashraful
Since price doesn't seem to be a problem, I could use some more in-depth
suggestions.

I submitted a new AskHN thread to get some ideas. Please comment if you have
anything to add.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287812>

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geoffw8
No, your not. I won't even look at your portfolio.

I used to work in creative teams, and I've worked with colleagues who charge
£500 a day in the UK. A lot of the value comes in not only the design, but how
he packages it up.

(Just looked at your portfolio. I'd say your prices are good).

~~~
ashraful
If my prices aren't too high, then what am I doing wrong?

~~~
blindfly
It's not that you're actively doing anything wrong it's merely the market.
People want everything for nothing. I've seen people shop at Wal-Mart for $1
items only to return them because they weren't the quality they were
expecting. Society, blah.

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cullend
You do superb work. Do not be ashamed of your skill. Tell them to fuckoff and
forward the mail to some cheaper junior person you know. Adapt to keep a
comfortable income, but, great work.

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niico
Holy crap. 3000$ for a redesign could pay me a penthouse here at Buenos Aires.

