

Ask HN: How can I encourage my co-workers to grow further as engineers? - ctb_mg

I am an engineer at a small software&#x2F;systems engineering firm in the midwest. In terms of competency, I&#x27;ve noticed 3 types of engineers:<p>1. Those who need direct guidance. They perform one task and stop. They don&#x27;t follow through on their analysis of issues or dig deeper to find underlying cause of problems. There&#x27;s no high level thought process or context; rather, high level analysis is limited as they don&#x27;t have the domain knowledge to understand the full system they&#x27;re working on (they don&#x27;t care to find out or don&#x27;t realize the value in understanding the entire system).<p>2. Engineers in between the above and below groups. Usually fairly technically savvy -- can handle typical engineering tasks with competency, but lack motivation or don&#x27;t actively seek out how to grow as an engineer. They stagnate without a great manager&#x2F;tech lead pushing them to the boundaries.<p>3. Engineers who are extremely proficient. Implementing features and finding the cause of problems is not an issue for them -- regardless of the feature, language, framework, whatever. These engineers go and figure out how to get it done. These engineers are only limited by their dependencies and business requirements. If you told them to implement a time machine in software, they would figure out the closest possible way to do it, and provide you with a full technical analysis of how it works -- and what the shortfalls are.<p>As a fellow engineer, how do I encourage my coworkers to move from groups 1-2 into group 3?<p>There is little in the way of technical training at the workplace; if there were, it wouldn&#x27;t teach the core skill of just plain getting on with it -- dig as deep as you can, find core problems, understand your system, grow as an engineer. In general there is a sense of laziness among engineers and a &quot;wait to be told what to do&quot; mindset.<p>Any thoughts or advice?
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professorTuring
This is not a how-to, but have a look at this (I have this very same problem):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6920376](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6920376)

Now my teammates are completely in the path. Motivation is the key point here,
they told me at the beginning "you have just arrived here, you will not be so
"willing" when you have some years on your back". But then I showed them I am
relentless I have showed the benefits of "doing" and "going further". How? I
don't have a clear answer but I believe something like:

1\. I study a problem or a path.

2\. I try to speak about it to my boss (and I don't usually give credit to
what he say since he a "1" type).

3\. I do what I think it bets better to the enterprise/team

4\. I show it to my boss and colleagues and speak about the
issue/problem/technology...

5\. They don't give a shit about it.

6\. I continue my path (meanwhile they continue their path) until they realize
that my path is simpler, funnier, better, or rewarding.

7\. They usually want to meet again to "re-speak" about the
technology/problem/issue... whatever.

8\. They end up learning it and enjoying the path on learning/studying...

So nowadays they are motivated by this path (just a little bit more, old your
horses!) but I notice that they are much happier.

But, a BIG WARNING: it might happens that some people may feel threatened
about you or your way. When you finish something make them feeling part of the
team, congratulate them and so on... This is so much true if you are not their
boss (if you are, just fire them).

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brudgers
Assume that each of the categories you have described exists for legitimate
reasons and that each individual person has good reasons for optimizing on one
of those paths and that their reasons are not yours and that there is nothing
broken in them that needs fixing.

The most likely problem is that you're in a place that does not require
everyone to be a rock star ninja 1%er. Maybe it's time for you to find a
bigger pond. The Harvard of Arkansas ain't Harvard.

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rprospero
As someone who is type 2 and is continuously working toward being class 3, I
want to know why your coworkers would even want to be type 3?

For instance, while I'm a type 2 developer, I'm a type 1 musician and a type 1
air hockey player. If I took half the amount of effort I spend on trying to be
a better developer and spent it on air hockey and music, I could be type 2 in
both of those. I don't care about being a musician or being good at air
hockey, so I haven't done those things, but that's just a matter personal
taste.

If I wake up tomorrow and discover I love air hockey, why should I keep
working toward being a type 3 developer?

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gyepi
This is a good question, but based on my experience, I have come to the
conclusion that the mindset that characterizes the three groups really go
beyond engineering or computing. It takes a certain amount of curiousity,
interest, ability, learning and so forth to have a type 3 mindset and some of
that simply cannot be externally driven.

Having said that, encouragement is good. Share what you learn as you do it,
talk about the books you've read and what benefit they provide. Sometimes
people just need an example closer at hand to see their own potential.

In the end, it really up to each person to decide how they want to approach
life.

~~~
mephju
I am not a type 3 engineer myself but I too believe it's a matter of mindset.
So what you want to do is to help them change their mindset. I have read 2
really, really interesting books on that matter. The first is called 'Mindset'
by Carol Dweck and the second one is 'Talent Code' by Daniel Coyle. They are
so valuable I believe that from now on we will see a blossoming of talents in
the western world never seen before due to such books addressing mindset
problems. I hope you take the time to look into them. They will give you hints
and advice on how to spark the growth mindset in other people.

~~~
gyepi
I was introduced to the Dweck book some years ago and it made a big impact on
me; I essentially had a fixed mindset and needed to "see" it in order to
change it. Another really good book is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's "Flow",
which, for me, anyway, extends Dweck's growth mindset concept to an
operational level. I have recommended both numerous times to good effect. I'm
not so sanguine about the blossoming of talents; our system of education does
not encourage the growth mindset, for the most part, until it's too late and
learning it later in life is hard.

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darkxanthos
Focus less on: * Comparing them to you * Changing them

Focus more on: * Identifying and leveraging their strengths * Position your
self as a Silvers type leader. Be a first follower to any of their ideas that
you think can be tweaked to hold water.

That last one may be non-obvious. Learning to be a first follower promotes
humility in yourself, supporting others, and showing others how to lead and
follow. When others lead their 'laziness' (I hate that word) begins to
dissipitate.

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gesman
There is a bigger world exist beyond being an engineer. Some of your coworkers
are wonder how they can help you to move beyond that mentality.

