
VR and Steam days - Vermeulen
http://www.3delement.com/
======
ender7
As someone who has used similar tech, I can vouch for the fact that the
immersion really is on a completely different level. Vertigo can be especially
unsettling. In my demo there was a large hole in the floor and I found myself
physically unable to walk over it, despite knowing that it wasn't real.

Edit: on reflection, the sensation was remarkably similar to how it feels when
dreaming. Signals from the real world can intrude on your experience (e.g.
running into physical objects can cause pain in dreams), but it doesn't break
the feeling of immersion. There's that strange mental transition point in a
dream where you get dunked under water but realize that you can still breathe;
the same thing happens in VR.

~~~
bsaul
I had the same impression after reading the post, when he talks about the
brain having difficulties knowing if the memory was from solething that really
happend or not.

I often wondered whether you could truely resent someone after having dreamed
of him doing something horrible for example.

------
malexw
Seems like some of the smartest people I know about are now working on VR or
AR tech: John Carmack at Oculus, Jeri Ellsworth at CastAR, Steve Mann at Meta,
Michael Abrash at Valve, and even the Google X team working on Glass (if you
consider that AR). If VR or AR tech doesn't catch on this decade, it certainly
won't be due to the effort put into making it happen.

I wonder if the world of VR circa 2018 will be a bit like the state of mobile
dev in 2008. It makes me think there will be a huge demand for 3D artists and
programmers as companies suddenly decide they need their own VR experience, as
they did with mobile apps 6 or 7 years ago. If so, now might be a good time to
start getting some experience with 3D design and development.

~~~
_random_
Not sure about 3D artists, 3D scanning should be quite good by then.

~~~
cocoflunchy
Well, that's unless you're looking for something that doesn't exist in the
real world...

~~~
sliverstorm
You can always take a trip back in time, and make scale models out of clay &
Styrofoam. Then maybe do a little smoothing in CAD. It's going to take a while
for creation tools to make computer-assisted-creation of realistic texture &
coloring as easy as painting some clay.

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w1ntermute
Direct link to post, rather than home page of blog:
[http://www.3delement.com/?p=332](http://www.3delement.com/?p=332)

------
gfodor
The future is crazy. It's hard for me to underestimate the debate and the
philosophical implications of this type of VR going mainstream. I can't
believe its so close. The world doesn't even see it coming.

------
baq
> understood that the demo was over, but it was if a lower level part of my
> mind couldn’t exactly be sure. It give me a very weird existential dread of
> my entire situation, and the only way I could get rid of that feeling was to
> walk around or touch things around me (or sit down, basically just get in a
> situation where I wasn’t just standing still like I was in the VR demo).

required viewing: existenz

------
TullamoreDude
Reminded me of this
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/)

~~~
freehunter
It reminded me of the techno-thriller book Daemon. A virus takes over the
world, infects every major company, and creates a darknet reality based on a
popular MMORPG. Everyone who is a part of the darknet wears VR glasses to tag
and control physical objects as well as see new layers of virtual reality like
interacting with AI beings.

------
seattlematt
Michael Abrash's post about his talk at Steam Developer's Day, which includes
a link to his slides: [http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/my-steam-
developers-da...](http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/my-steam-developers-
day-talk/)

------
angersock
It's so great to see people working on this tech as the real world gets
shittier!

For a second there, we may have actually had to worry about revolt.

~~~
cjensen
I grew up during the 80s knowing that the Cold War could turn hot and end the
world at any moment. Half of Europe lived in oppression. China was barely able
to feed its people. Communism was still attempted by countries and defended by
some intellectuals despite a 0% success rate at actually improving lives.

Yesterday, the Gates Foundation annual report was linked to from HN. It
explained how the world is getting better fast and that extreme poverty could
be a thing of the past in a few decades.

So please, go ahead explain and try to justify your claim that the world just
gets worse!

~~~
angersock
We're almost done putting in the final pieces of a global surveillance network
and security apparatus which, once turned on, will be near impossible to
dismantle peacefully. The income and wealth inequality has never been worse.

The only way this could be resolved is with the middle and lower classes doing
something, and these VR things are probably going to be the most effective
bread and circuses we're ever going to see.

The oppression is either there or coming, soon.

------
masklinn
> this isn’t a consumer ready product, so it isn’t surprising it isn’t
> designed for everyone’s face yet

As far as I know, Valve does not currently plan to make it into a product
(though they leave the door open if they feel it becomes necessary, as with
steam machines). From what they've said so far, Valve's intention is to work
with Oculus for consumer VR products.

~~~
Vermeulen
It definitely is entirely R&D tech - considering each HMD cost around 20k, and
requires the walls plastered with codes for head tracking. The HMD they
currently have actually have ripped out Samsung Galaxy S4 screens (for each
eye) - so that obviously can't scale in manufacturing

------
al2o3cr
For extra retro fun, tack on "ML" to "VR" in the title and imagine all the
comments are dated 1996. :)

~~~
shiftpgdn
When I was about 13 (around that time frame) I got a book about VRML. I
remember spending literally hundreds of hours making worthless VRML worlds. I
wonder whatever happened to that language...

------
BoppreH
I intend to purchase one of these VR sets as soon as possible, but I'll take
extreme care to which games play on them. Either real life habits come to
games and mindless killing FPS becomes less popular, or game habits come to
real life and you risk acquiring bad traits.

Interesting times ahead.

~~~
ssewell
If you're itching for VR, you can order an Oculus Rift dev kit right now
([https://www.oculusvr.com/order/](https://www.oculusvr.com/order/)). The
consumer version with significant improvements should be available in about a
year.

~~~
modeless
I don't recommend purchasing the current dev kit unless you actually plan to
do development. The quality isn't high enough for prolonged use; motion
sickness is virtually certain. There aren't any AAA quality made-for-VR games
released yet; only demos and ports exist so far.

On the other hand, if you do actually plan to do development then by all means
get a dev kit right now; don't wait for the next release. You need to try it
as soon as possible because it's going to take a lot of time and experience to
figure out how to convert your ideas into usable VR games and interfaces. Any
development done now will transfer directly to the final consumer product.

~~~
daheza
If I know a bit of C++ and a lot of Web Languages, where would be the best
place to get more information about VR Programming? For these games they are
developing what language are they written in? What kind of software are they
using to create 3D models ? Are they all using Unity?

~~~
nhaehnle
You can use whatever language you like. There's really not much special about
VR from the programming point of view. The Oculus Rift is really just a
display that gets recognized as an additional monitor plus a USB device for
head tracking. Oculus provides a library that you can use that takes care of
interfacing with the USB device and some other gimmicks.

The main difference to non-VR 3D programming work is that getting latency down
is much more important, so your priorities shift a bit. The real difference is
in thinking of whether you can do cool new user interface stuff.

So in that sense, your question is a bit misplaced. You need to know about 3D
development in general. Once you know that, the delta of what you need on top
of that is very small, and everything you need can be found on the Oculus
developer site.

------
Kiro
Are you comparing it with the new or old version of the Oculus dev kit? The
new one has addressed both resolution and latency. The difference between the
versions is huge and I definitely think the consumer version later this year
will step it up even further.

~~~
Vermeulen
I haven't tried the new Crystal Cove version - but I spoke to a number of devs
who've tried both (the new Oculus and Valve's tech), and they said also it in
no way compares. Crystal Cove is an incremental update, but I from what I've
heard it won't have the sort of presence of Valve's current tech. I imagine
just because they are limited to what they can actually manfacture

------
hrkristian
Eagerly awaiting OASIS...

Now, what decade is Gabe Newell obsessed with?

~~~
jimmcslim
I'm trying to figure out if James Halliday will end up being personified by
Gabe Newell, Palmer Luckey, John Carmack or Michael Abrash...

------
prawn
Can't stop thinking about how they will ultimately solve the movement problem.
The Omni looks pretty silly and limited.

Maybe a dedicated-room version like an Omni with curved tracks and padded
walls. You buy a 4x4m base and install it in a room in your house?

Colleague suggested a frame that suspends you off the ground, then mechanical
boots or splints on your leg that give your feet feedback and convince you
that you're running and jumping.

End game is a direct feed to the brain to convince your limbs that they're
moving?

Or maybe Thalmic Myos on each limb to track the intent of your limbs? That
would lack feedback unless you wore a tactile suit.

------
Corrado
I can imagine this being extended into entertainment in general. Watching a
scary movie (i.e. Blair Witch Project) from the point of the victim would be
terrifying! Being one of the luge runners in the olympics would be thrilling!
Not to mention the adult entertainment industry; now you don't have to just
watch things happen, you can actually participate.

I think like any technology it has multiple uses, good & evil; its up to us to
decide how we use it.

------
AndyKelley
A little bit tangential, but... if anyone has gotten the Oculus Rift working
with TF2 on Ubuntu, we could use some help troubleshooting over here:
[http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/2/648817378061...](http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/2/648817378061880494/)

It's strange; I have not yet found an actually useful support forum for this
stuff.

------
moultano
I'm curious whether 3d models extracted from an array of cameras (maybe with a
lidar as well) would be satisfying enough to watch movies like this.

~~~
hershel
Even watching currently available 3d imax movies(using occulus) is really fun
according to people some around the web,

------
ANTSANTS
For some reason the OP linked to the blog's front page and not the actual
article in question. Here it is for the benefit of anyone stumbling across
this in the future:

[http://www.3delement.com/?p=332](http://www.3delement.com/?p=332)

------
beloch
VR is undeniably going to take immersiveness a step forward, but user agency
is still the true king of addiction.

Real life is obviously the benchmark for immsersiveness, but we don't consider
it possible to be addicted to living in the real world. We might consider some
to be "adrenaline junkies" for pursuing dangerous aspects of real life, but we
say they are addicted to a certain chemical the body produces rather than
life.

Books are one of the least immersive forms of entertainment widely consumed in
that the interface is through abstract symbols. Still, they allow us to
experience things that we are unlikely to encounter in our own lives. They
engage our imagination and are indeed addictive. A good book lets you almost
live another life.

Theater and film are, in most ways, more immersive than books. Instead of
forcing us to construct everything in our own minds, much of what we
experience is constructed externally, just as in real life. An actor's
performance may be completely different from how we might imagine a character
to be, just from reading his or her lines, and this really fools our minds
into thinking characters are more real. However, as in books, we are almost
always passive observers. We have no agency.

Video games are now capable of offering everything that film does, but while
granting the audience agency. We can perform tasks, affect the outcome of the
story, etc.. As with film, technical limitations mean that suspension of
disbelief is necessary for us to buy into a video game world, but when a game
does make us buy-in it can be a place we'll live in for many hours before
exhausting the content. It can be grueling to sit through a 180 minute film,
but a 180 minute game would be considered far too brief. We also respond very
differently to challenge when we have agency. Many films that challenge the
viewer too much are considered "confusing", and rapidly tire audiences. A game
that doesn't offer challenge is unlikely to be fun at all! Many of us enjoy
conquering games where challenge crosses the line into frustration!

Many video games made today are modeled after books and film. You play a truly
exceptional protagonist who is easily capable of things beyond anyone else in
the universe. The game-world pivots and changes around this character, even if
the user doesn't have a lot of control over it. These are highly entertaining,
but probably the least immersive. Other games take a much more realistic
approach, most notably MMO's. Users, by technical necessity, cannot change the
world radically because other players share the world. Users become just one
more player in the crowd. MMO characters have little power in the simulated
universe, but users have complete agency over their own characters. The
unpredictable nature of interacting with real humans, the necessarily
insurmountable challenges of the game (in terms of time required to "beat" the
game, if nothing else), and total user agency make MMO's the most addictive
form of video game known.

If you're with me this far, kudos for being patient! VR is a means to interact
with both pre-recorded films (think google-street-view cam on a snow-boarder)
and video games that has been largely neglected to date due to technical
barriers. Oculus and Valve are clearly on the verge of shattering those
barriers. We're probably going to see media running the gamut from pre-
recorded VR videos offering no user agency (other than turning your head) to
MMO's where humans can interact with each other in simulated environments with
complete agency. The level of addiction posed by these different recordings
and games is going to vary wildly, just as the addictiveness of current games
and media varies. VR is an exciting step forward for immersiveness, but we
shouldn't expect anything VR to be an addiction problem!

~~~
elliotec
It's interesting to think of this from your perspective and I fully agree that
agency will remain what people want.

I don't think its far off to consider a world in the not-so-distant future in
which VR expands the possibilities of the universe, and therefore our agency.

Think of the limitations we have now in reality. There is one currently
livable planet, clogged highways, limited resources, way too many people, the
inability to jump up and fly across the world, etc. I can see VR shattering
the boundaries of our current agency in reality, just like Oculus and Valve
are certainly on their way to doing with technology.

And with such a highly immersive environment and increasingly interconnected
world, I imagine it might even be nice to just plug-in and exist almost
entirely in a virtual world. I don't think it is as much a matter of addiction
as just, what might be better in the future.

------
benched
As for the worry over 'addiction' and escapism, just let us go. The moment it
becomes physically possible to get the hell out of this reality and take my
chances in another one, I'm gone. Just stick an IV in me, store me in a
coffin-sized apartment, and start the show.

~~~
Wintamute
I wonder how many other civilisations in the universe turned their gaze
inwards into nested self-created realities rather than try the difficult job
of voyaging outwards into "real" space. It could be a well trodden path ...

~~~
Karunamon
SMBC did a comic on this. Kind of makes you think..

[http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20131122.png](http://www.smbc-
comics.com/comics/20131122.png)

~~~
vinceguidry
Neat concept for a strip. One nitpick though, harnessing solar energy would
make energy cheap and abundant enough to keep everyone in VR forever. As soon
as the tech exists, you wouldn't need an exchange economy for energy anymore,
any more than one exists for air.

What wouldn't be possible is slowing the perception of time down so much as to
create immortality. The sheer amount of processing necessary would put a
theoretical limit on how slow you can make time, while still providing a fine-
grained enough experience to be seamless.

~~~
Karunamon
It does make me wonder what happens once we gain the ability to do two things:

1) VR by direct neural input, instead of by enveloping the senses (think more
Johnny Mnemonic than the Star Trek holodeck)

2) Manipulating perception of time, which we already know is pretty mutable.

