
How to Android without Google - schrodingersbox
https://bytemybits.gitlab.io/post/2018-05-23-how-to-android-without-google-easy-way/
======
Animats
_Enable Google device registration_ _Enable Google Cloud Messaging_

I run Android without Google. I bought a new phone, and when I powered it up,
it tried to get me to "sign into Google". I declined. I downloaded F-Droid.
Then I disabled every Google thing that could be disabled.After that, all apps
came from F-Droid. Mail is via K-9 mail and an IMAP server. Browsing is Fennec
F-Droid, which is Firefox minus some unwanted Mozilla-calling stuff. Mapping
is ZANavi. Location provider is Mozilla. Works fine.

~~~
forapurpose
Last time I looked at it, maybe a couple of years ago, the parent's approach
was not nearly sufficient if you don't want your phone communicating with
Google. There was so much, including things baked into Android, that it would
have been a full time job to identify and find solutions to everything. The
only hope was another OS (including Android forks/ROMs), and none of those
available at the time seemed sufficient secure - many didn't focus on
security, didn't know what they were doing, or lacked resources to complete
the job - or capabilities.

As one simple issue, I'm pretty sure Android uses Google's DNS and that is
hard to change.

Sorry to be vague; I wish I had more details but don't have time to look them
up right now. The basic message is: It's not sufficient, depending on your
goals. to rely on settings in the GUI and to avoid Google applications.

~~~
CapacitorSet
I agree with the general feeling, but for the DNS issue specifically you can
use iptables' DNAT if you're root. It is unlikely that Google went as far as
bypassing iptables just to use their DNS.

Example usage:

    
    
        iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 53 -j DNAT --to-destination 1.2.3.4
        iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p udp --dport 53 -j DNAT --to-destination 1.2.3.4

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GranPC
This isn't really Android without Google - if you do this, you're still using
Google's services and piping data through them. It's kind of like switching
from Chrome to Firefox to open Gmail.

~~~
Qwertie
There is android without google. My device uses 0 google services.

~~~
HillaryBriss
interesting. what do you use to accomplish that?

~~~
craftyguy
Don't install Google services or microg, and don't use apps which require any
of that crap.

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krn
The real Android without Google is CopperheadOS[1], which is also ahead of
Google in terms of security (not behind, like LineageOS).

[1] [https://copperhead.co/](https://copperhead.co/)

~~~
bluuswtr
Why is Lineage behind?

~~~
krn
When a security patch for Android becomes available, it takes a lot of time
until it gets ported to the LineageOS build targeting your device. If it ever
happens at all.

~~~
izacus
Also it's worth remembering that LineageOS can't patch the driver blobs (which
are a source of a large number of security issues). As a result, if you don't
run it on a maintained platform (e.g. Google Pixel phones), you're still
behind in security.

~~~
Fnoord
For Fairphone 2 you can manually update that quite easily.

------
nabilt
I recently switch to a Sony Xperia X and I'm running AOSP built from source.
If you just need a browser and want to make phone calls this is an OK
solution.

[https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-
devices/](https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/)

------
milankragujevic
Unfortunately my phone isn't supported and I don't know how to build LineageOS
for it, so I'm stuck with Google and also some other spyware that straight up
sends contacts and SMS to servers in either China or US. Guess I should try
and sue Alcatel under GDPR (but given they're owned by TCL, which is Chinese,
I don't think it'll help).

~~~
exikyut
Well, as long as it doesn't have a locked bootloader (I presume it doesn't),
you should theoretically be able to get somewhere with it.

Rebuilding Android surely isn't that difficult (it's been on my todo list for
some time, I've just never gotten around to it due to insufficient RAM).

~~~
whyagaindavid
Sadly for most devices it is impossible as many OEMs do not release kernel and
firmware. Yes it may be a open source violation but try telling this to any
OEMs. Search in XDA and you will see one of the largest manufacturer Xiaomi
does not release sources. If you have MediaTek SoC forget it.

~~~
userbinator
Mediatek sources are out there, along with full datasheets, desige guides,
schematics, PCB layouts, etc. They're just not released "officially", but that
doesn't mean they don't publicly exist.

------
sigfubar
LineageOS is no longer the CyanogenMod it once was. Where CM received regular
updates and supported a plethora of devices, LOS has been dropping devices and
doesn't do Oreo. My Galaxy S7 is no longer supported by LOS for absolutely no
valid reason:
[https://lineageos.org/Changelog-18/](https://lineageos.org/Changelog-18/)

> Removed 14.1 devices > Samsung Galaxy S7 (herolte) and S7 Edge (hero2lte)
> due to licensing issues of the device trees

~~~
d33
> doesn't do Oreo

Well I call bullshit:

[https://www.lineageos.org/Changelog-16/](https://www.lineageos.org/Changelog-16/)

As for why the device was dropped, go ask the maintainer. They're probably
volunteers and it might be that one of them just stopped having time to do
that. I don't think they're actually paid for porting LOS.

~~~
sigfubar
Somehow this sort of thing never happened to a recent device like the S7 back
in the days of CM, before it became Cyanogen Inc. Between the death of
Cyanogen Inc. and the birth of LOS a crucial ingredient appears to have been
lost, leaving the project as a whole less vital that it was before.

~~~
jacoblambda
Overall interest in the ROM and android modding community has been decreasing.
CM appeared right when android really started gaining traction and the modding
community prospered. That was when phones were seen as the cool new tech with
all these interesting features. Nowadays most people don't care what is in
their phones as long as it runs the apps they want, takes decent pictures, and
lasts for a decent part of the day. It also doesn't help that nowadays app
developers have started intentionally crippling apps when a custom ROM is
detected.

Because of this most people don't contribute to android ROM projects anymore.
For a lot of people it just isn't worth the effort those that do care tend to
keep up with new tech and buy the latest and greatest tech so they aren't
maintaining old devices as much anymore unless they were major hits or a
personal preference of the maintainer.

As for why a lot of features have disappeared, through the whole process of
surviving the Cyanogen Inc. issues, it took everything the community had to
keep basic android supported let alone all the extra features considering how
many devices they support. Now that Treble has been deployed, this shouldn't
be so much of an issue but maintaining so many old devices that have long been
deprecated isn't easy.

Also, as for why the S7 is no longer maintained, apparently there was some bs
issue with the software license on the S7 binaries.

------
rehemiau
I don't even run microg. Here WeGo is great for maps. Firefox is great as a
browser, and has nice things like playing youtube in background (after adding
an extension) or ublock. Slack works (without notifications), Spotify,
Netflix, Authy, Signal... Many things have PWAs that work because they are
platform-independent. For installing things there's F-Droid or APKUpdater. You
could even use Facebook Messenger without Google and still get notifications.
My battery is great and Android

~~~
gcb0
OSMand for maps is even better than google maps, in terms of map correctness
and navigation options.

~~~
wilsonnb
I just installed OSMand to try it out, and it didn't have the street I live
on. It also didn't have my place of work on it, although it did have that
street at least.

Seems worse than Google maps to me.

~~~
pmlnr
Did you also download the map for your area?

~~~
wilsonnb
I downloaded the maps for my state. Are there local maps that I would need to
download as well?

~~~
rehemiau
Open Street Maps have much more users (and thus better ground coverage) in
Europe, e.g. Germany. I think that's why the experience may be diametrically
different for different people.

------
pluc
"De-Googling my phone" by Martin Pitt was also a pretty interesting related
read: [https://piware.de/post/2018-05-01-android-
degoogle/](https://piware.de/post/2018-05-01-android-degoogle/)

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gcb0
it is still impossible. the step #1 there, "install lineageOS" translates to
"install a bunch of binaries blobs that include kernel drivers and firmwares
that were signed by the OEM and google", so no, you are still not free from
google code there.

~~~
dabockster
Is Replikant still a thing?

------
paradite
It is pretty interesting that people outside China are trying hard to get rid
of Google on Android. Whereas people buying phones in China are getting
Android without Google by default and trying hard to install Google play
services (those who travel or live oversea).

~~~
bitL
Not that interesting TBH. In Germany people are trying to get on
Facebook/Instagram/LinkedIn right now, when people in the US are trying to
escape them. It's simply a new thing marketed there.

~~~
procinct
Germany doesn't have access to FB/Instagram/LinkedIn?

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pschastain
Bummer that they don't support Nokia (yet). I have a first-gen 6, it's a fine
phone, but I've been thinking that my next phone will be an iPhone because I'm
tired of Google and their invasive tactics. I don't mind advertising and
understand the business model that uses it, but I am wholly opposed to
targeted advertising that tracks my browsing habits and which sites I visit.

------
whyagaindavid
In summary, look at
[https://download.lineageos.org/](https://download.lineageos.org/) before
buying if you want support from LOS. Sadly many buy the bling phone or cheap
from far-east that is riddled with bloatware/spyware.

------
beenBoutIT
As an Android developer I'm biased, but it's important to remember that there
literally would be no Android if it weren't for Google. Custom ROMs have
lagged behind Google factory images in every way for years now, and they
aren't anywhere near as reliable as a customized AOSP image. On a separate
note, there's no substitute for Google Maps, and there never will be.

~~~
Sylos
There's tons of substitutes for Google Maps:

[https://f-droid.org/app/net.osmand.plus](https://f-droid.org/app/net.osmand.plus)

[https://f-droid.org/app/com.github.axet.maps](https://f-droid.org/app/com.github.axet.maps)

[https://f-droid.org/app/com.junjunguo.pocketmaps](https://f-droid.org/app/com.junjunguo.pocketmaps)

[https://f-droid.org/app/com.zoffcc.applications.zanavi](https://f-droid.org/app/com.zoffcc.applications.zanavi)

Either specify why you think Google Maps is so irreplacable or don't make such
a blanket statement.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Those are all inferior substitutes. None of them can reroute you on the fly to
avoid a major delay, and none of them provide real-time traffic updates on par
with the updates provided by Google Maps. Being extremely popular gives it a
huge advantage that none of the other map apps enjoy. There will never be a
substitute because there is no logical incentive for anyone to use the
inferior map apps, and without a massive increase in users they'll perpetually
remain less accurate. How many people are willing to risk sitting in traffic
unnecessarily to prove some point about not relying on Google technology?

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giancarlostoro
I'm considering the Essential Phone for my next phone and just putting Lineage
OS or something on it. Not sure of another phone that I can get for that price
range (under $500) that is unlocked and not bloatware filled. Definitely going
to be reading a number of articles like these. Though I might try not
installing the Google* apps on it period.

~~~
rightos
Essential died, I'd look at Android One devices like the Nokia 6 or Xiaomi Mi
A1.

~~~
dblohm7
They're not dead yet. Sure, they stopped working on their next phone and are
searching for a buyer, but they also just pushed out a new Android P beta for
the PH-1.

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MajorSauce
I have made a habit to de-americanize my products and went with a Xiaomi phone
(the Mi Mix 2) and installed LOS on it.

The only thing I am really missing is Google Maps and its precise, actual
traffic augmented, predictions.

I've tried Waze, Bing and OSM, but there is always something missing.

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z3t4
Android is just the base. Smart-phones run pretty much custom firmware. You
could get a "flagship" smarthone a couple of years old, basically for free,
and the hardware would still be very good, but good luck upgrading to latest
Android version.

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FairDune
When I last did something like this, I reset to the original OS because of
only one other thing I encountered - proprietary software like for e.g.
Samsung S-Pen would not work. Unless I missed something?

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reshie
mostly no Gapps use open apps like f-droid as a source which has a lot of
rules and fairly transparent. there are some shady app markets out there
though.

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NedIsakoff
Xiaomi?

