
Marriage turns genius off like a tap. - asciilifeform
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/scitech/SciTechRepublish_898675.htm
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aantix
I've always been the type that in order for me to learn something, I adopt a
pet project. It brings context to the concepts.

I can remember staying the night at my girlfriend's apartment (she's now my
wife). We enjoyed each others company. But when she would fall asleep, I would
hop on to her computer and begin working on my own projects.

And she use to complain, in fact, get extremely angry that I was up "typing
away" and that I needed to come to bed. My contention is that she's asleep so
why should she care? I finally said, "Get over yourself. I have enjoyed
working on late projects before I met you and will continue to do so for the
rest of my life. Programming is my life. Deal with it."

And after a few fights and with me not backing down, it was no longer an
issue.

The point of the story; if something is important to you, grow some balls and
stand up for it.

To make a broad generalization, women have a tendency to put the relationship
before anything else. But if in your world coding is just as important as
cuddling, speak up and stand your ground.

Relationships and intellectual development do not have to be mutually
exclusive.

~~~
andreyf
1) Einstein ended up getting divorced over his work. Is it worth it?

2) Sex is exhausting. Having it regularly is the real issue.

~~~
imsteve
I feel great for coding after sex, if it's with a partner that I haven't just
started with. It's like a cloud has been lifted from my mind. A world of
distractions are suddenly gone.

~~~
cstejerean
Reminds me of Cryptonomicon

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ivankirigin
My startup cofounder is my wife. Things are going splendidly. Generalizations
are pretty useless in making decisions for your own life.

~~~
nkohari
I'm also working on a startup with my wife as cofounder. We haven't launched
yet, but her skillset is a fantastic complement to mine. I'm a very strategic
thinker, whereas she's a great tactician and good at organization. She's also
brilliant (Ph.D. student in I/O psychology), which is one of the reasons I
married her. :)

I think that most couples aren't capable of running a business together, but I
also think we're particularly pragmatic and don't let emotions get in the way
of our goals.

I also have found myself becoming MORE creative now that we've been married.
That might just be because I didn't move out from my parents' house until a
few months before the wedding, but I can say that the broad generalization of
marriage destroying creativity doesn't apply to me.

~~~
randomhack
uhh .. what is I/O psychology? maybe there is some obvious abbreviation that I
am missing. but I/O .. well to a programmer that is always input-output and I
am having a hard time thinking about what psychology might be involved in
reading/writing to disks for instance.

~~~
barry-cotter
Industrial organisation

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mooneater
Doesn't jive with my experience. A wife and family increaased my drive
tremendously.

When i was single, I was a slacker mostly interested in partying. I would work
just enough for rent and pot.

After our first son arrived 5 years ago (unplanned), I realized I had to make
up for lost time, and have been extremely productive ever since, finishing my
engineering degree, finally getting a "real" job in the industry, and then
leaving that for my startup.

However, my wife constantly says I dont give enough time to the family. If I
gave as much time as she wished, I doubt I would be successful.

~~~
icky
> After our first son arrived 5 years ago (unplanned)

Sounds like you should hire a project manager! ;-)

~~~
mooneater
If you are married then you will know, she is clearly the manager.

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yters
A few more anecdotal data points:

I had a philosophy teacher who was known for being something of a terror.
However, he became a lot more placid after getting married.

A fellow student was very driven, he was on track to becoming a SEAL at one
point (changed his mind due to the psychological effects of being a SEAL).
However, he too became much more laid back after getting married. He told me
that he noticed married people lose their drive.

On the other hand, I had a classics professor who is married with 4 kids, and
he is very prolific.

Besides the biological aspects of getting married, I think marriage makes life
more emotionally comfortable for people. So, if a person's drive doesn't come
from a lack of emotional stability, then they'll remain productive even after
becoming married.

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jsjenkins168
Here is the original paper [PDF]:
<http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/MES/pdf/JRP2003.pdf>

A very important article for any aspiring young man.

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codewhisperer
Interestingly, the female genius stay fairly consistent across their life
spans. It does not exhibit the sharp peak in the of their male counterparts.
Unfortunately, the paper does not address the impact of marriage on women's
productivity, only on mens.

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tbourdon
It's all about time, time, time. I'm not suggesting there aren't extremes at
both ends of the intelligence spectrum. But for the bulk of us in the middle
of the curve, it all comes down to time. The problem is society pulls for our
time on one end and family pulls for our time on the other. Unless your
independently wealthy you can't be uber effective at both. I've actually known
a number of men who have tried to advance there careers or get advanced
degrees after they were married and had children only to end up getting
divorced. I'm not advocating one path as superior to the other but having a
family myself I know something has to give. Over time I've learned to value my
accomplishments as a husband and father over those of intellect and career.

~~~
pchristensen
Ditto. You couldn't develop much of a career in a couple hours a day, so why
expect to be successful at a family with the same minimal contribution? It's
about balance.

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jonnytran
PG, any thoughts on this? Are you married? And dare I ask, are you celibate?
...No pressure, of course. It's a touchy subject to some.

I ask because you're more successful than most of us here, and I know of many
people who claim that celibacy is crucial to doing anything great with your
life, for whatever your definition of great is. Scientific evidence is hard to
come by though, and even still, most people don't seem to accept it.

~~~
pg
I'm not married yet. Engaged though.

I wonder if this study controlled for children. From what I've seen, having
kids affects people's lives a lot more than getting married.

~~~
hollerith
remember that most of the scientists surveyed lived before effective birth
control, when marriage usually led to children.

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ge
Will divorce restore the genius, or is it irreversible?

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jsjenkins168
According to the findings in the paper: Yes, it will to at least some degree.
Testosterone increases after a divorce and therefore so does competitive
effort and overall productivity (Genius + Effort = Productivity)

~~~
huherto
I think it does. I am divorced, therefore I still have to compete for the
babes. As a result, I am in better shape than most guys my age. I also must be
(somewhat) successful. The most successful you are the better babes you can
get. I know is a somewhat cynical position but I think sex is an important
motivator.

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xirium
Marriage doesn't only stop scientific genius. It also stops musical genius. A
good example would be The Beatles. Consider them like a start-up. They had a
phenomenally productive phase but it stopped after they got married. This
could be because the number of decision makers grew and the number of
relationships grew even more.

~~~
hernan7
According to Wikipedia, John was married to Cynthia from 1962-68; then to
Yoko. Ringo married in '65; George in '66.

~~~
kcl
Stunning counterexample.

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bayareaguy
I think some portion of "genius" is the ability to recognize and run with
ideas, some of which come from others. Geniuses not only need to actually have
an idea, they need the freedom to pursue it and get recognized.

Getting settled in to a family need not diminish the capacity for ideas, but
following the established social conventions of ordinary people will reduce
the chances to pursue them. Settling down may also make geniuses less social
and as a result they may not pick up as many new ideas from others and they
will limit their chances to be recognized.

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malkia
Seems like a good material of the Divorce Magazine (www.divorcemag.com)... Now
what the hell is that... The other I walk in the BestBuy and see this free
magazine, fuckin divorce lawyers and shit...

And fuck the geniuses life! My wife born me a beautiful son, he's already 45
days, the hell with geniuses and their lives...

~~~
huherto
Why the downmodes? malkia is just so happy about his new son that everything
else (including being a genius) seems unimportant.

~~~
yters
Agreed, being a genius doesn't matter in a vacuum (a point RMS apparently
doesn't get).

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giardini
The article doesn't say that marriage turns genius off, it says that marriage
and _children_ turn it off. BFD

My bet is that children alone absolutely destroy productivity and further,
that marriage without children would (at least initially) enhance
productivity.

~~~
andyjenn
Strange as its increased my productivity. Kids do take up a load of time, but
its been THE most focusing effect of my life :- 1\. Any spare time I have, I
work immensely hard - no creativity suites with bean bags for inspiration; no
procrastination on which direction I take or how elegant/short my code can be.
If it works, its in. 2\. My product (or subsequent ones) HAS to succeed. I'm
simply working to keep a roof over our heads and now have another mouth to
feed. "Necessity is the mother of all invention" a smart chap from across the
pond once said. In short - I do not suffer from motivational problems.

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barryfandango
I know that counterexamples will not disprove the trend, but... What about the
Curies? Or Thelonious Monk. Without Nellie to make his lunch and get him
dressed in the morning, he would never have achieved the things he did.

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icey
It seems to me like this result would be true for anything a person tries to
do that requires a significant amount of time investment.

For instance, I'd like to see this same study on people who have discovered
Warcraft or the like.

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amohr
That's really not that surprising. If I feel that nagging 'it would be
unhealthy to stay up any later' feeling, staying up and putting in those extra
hours just seems less appealing if the alternative is a bed with the warm body
of someone who loves you. Guess it's a matter of motivations/priorities.

Alternatively, maybe it just means that, once you have a family, you're less
likely to take the risks that are sometimes necessary to produce those genius
contributions.

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sammyo
Note the differential between discovery and engineering. OMG, Paul, think long
engagment, at least until the crazy creative part of Arc is wrapped up... ;-)

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rokhayakebe
i know something else it turns off: freedom

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goodgoblin
depends who you marry

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brassy
The tap leaked extensively in the case of J. S. Bach: two wives and 21
children.

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amichail
Is this desirable? Maybe it helps you give more attention to your family.

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kajecounterhack
Marriage turns other things off like a tap ;)

Maybe that contributes? 0.o

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mroman
Personally, my productivity went up after me and my wife separated. No kids
involved. It was a focus issue with me. I simply could not manage to fully
focus on what I was doing when having to deal with another person's constant
issues, whether it be this or that. Constantly having to pay attention to
someone, having to go along with weekend activities I was not in the least
interested in. Now, I love the woman, and we are still husband and wife, but I
personally can't handle living with someone and therefore having my life
intertwined with another person's life.

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sabat
the past != the future

statistical "facts" != your own experience

