
Visiting Chinese Megacities - sndean
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-07-12/10-chinese-megacities-to-see-before-you-die
======
pentae
I live in SE Asia (Thailand) and although I'm fascinated by China, my
experience with Chinese tourists has turned me off visiting the mainland
completely.

They are more often than not incredibly loud, rude and lack almost all basic
human courtesy we take for granted in the west and even in asian countries
like Thailand. They will push past you in queues, yell mandarin loudly in your
face to others behind you, stand in the middle of the street blocking traffic,
play videos on their phone speaker on full volume without using headphones - I
could go on and on and on.

There's absolutely zero consideration for anyone but themselves and are, by a
wide margin, the rudest tourists i've ever encountered anywhere.

I can't help but wonder if it's just the type Chinese tourists that visit
Thailand and mainland China would be different, but its just not a risk i'm
willing to take.

~~~
jjcc
Your observation is correct. As an ethnic Chinese I'm sorry and apologize for
that. Many Chinese and government know that's true. As result, all Chinese
mobile phone users will receive a text message from Chinese embassies when
they are landed to foreign countries even inside airplane (at least US and
Canada ) reminding them(mobile phone carrier) to respect local custom and
culture, especially don't speak aloud in public areas.

There are many reasons for that. A obvious one is quick economic growth makes
many less educated normal people can afford previously luxury tourism. But
there are more profound reasons. Unfortunately, researches and studies of
personality statistics of vary large group of people(for example, behavior of
an ethnic group) are very difficult and most importantly: they are politically
incorrect, considered harmful and forbidden, as well as the conclusions will
not be accepted by public. So most people on the earth don't know the real
reasons behind that but only have fake explanations that modern human mind can
accept.

BTW off the topic. with same understanding, I predicted early in 2003 that
Bush's goal of Iraq war would fail FOR SURE by observation of similarity of
statistical (i.e. population) mindsets between middle east people and Chinese
people.

The good news is things are changing slowly towards the good direction. The
habit and behavior of Chinese people, especially young generation and educated
people are more and more closer to that of Japanese, Hongkonger, Taiwan
people. But it will take long long time, maybe generations.

~~~
Taylor_OD
"There are many reasons for that. A obvious one is quick economic growth makes
many less educated normal people can afford previously luxury tourism."

I always assumed it came down to exactly this. Give people money who have
never had money before and there are going to be some social growing pains but
eventually everything will normalize.

~~~
mistermann
Then how does one explain the USA and Japan (just as two examples out of many)
- both wealthy countries with very distinct cultures?

~~~
JBReefer
Japanese tourists are amazing. I once saw a 20-something couple silently watch
a beautiful peacock stroll through the grounds of St. John the Divine, for an
HOUR. I was walking around and enjoying the space, but those two seemed to
have found some sort of peace with the place that locals will never have. The
nodded to me when they left and cleaned up their picnic perfectly. You don't
see many Japanese tourists anymore and (completely uniquely) that's a shame.

------
contingencies
I've lived in China for 16 years and been to nearly all the cities mentioned
in the article plus many more. I agree they are interesting to visit, however
for different reasons. Personally I have little tolerance for the east coast
cities for all but a whirlwind visit, generally being too large and natureless
to justify an extended stay.

The great things you can see are random new architecture (a highly successful
architect friend of mine recently described China as a "playground for
architects"), old stuff (though increasingly fake / rebuilt - if you are a
real history buff you need to do some research to find the less visited
sites), interesting and highly regionally varied food, and almost total
street-level safety.

Things that can be not so fun: transportation crushes, higher prices (it is no
longer cheap to travel here), communications and cultural issues, general lack
of tourism infrastructure or infrastructure limited to handful of sites with a
mass tourism focus.

Personally I prefer the smaller towns, natural areas, and obscure cultural
attractions like locally preserved architecture, performance traditions and
wacky foods.

Overall it's a very interesting country and worth a look, though if you have a
very picky diet (eg. vegan), a weak stomach or constitution, or tire easily it
may not be the destination of choice.

Anyone from HN passing through Shenzhen is welcome to hit me up for a beer!

~~~
Gabriel_h
Hi Walter,

I'm a fellow founder based in SZ, it would be great to get in contact. Your
Myanmar-focused financial services startup sounds interesting. I always try to
meet anyone doing something I find interesting :)

Could you drop me an email at gabriel@moju.io? Any other HN readers based in
SZ, also feel free to reach out :)

------
fewers
For an idea of how these cities look here are some drone shots:

Shenzhen:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKLrmi5eOn8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKLrmi5eOn8)

Shanghai:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cC-j4_NtvE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cC-j4_NtvE)

Guangzhou:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNlN1_ANaJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNlN1_ANaJs)

Chongqing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07dWi-
MJReM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07dWi-MJReM)

Shenyang:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGBSpoTXZmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGBSpoTXZmw)

Suzhou: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aXLMS-
miKU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aXLMS-miKU)

Dalian:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeEJNNMcR1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeEJNNMcR1s)

Zhengzhou:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiOlUYfM310](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiOlUYfM310)

Chengdu:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwVQ4Jb1zc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwVQ4Jb1zc)

------
l5870uoo9y
After living in Hong Kong for a while, what stood out to me the most –
compared to European cities – was the lack of traditional cultural elements in
the form of museums, theaters, art or architecture. Guangzhou seemed the same,
just must more poor. Entertainment is almost ironically fully consumerist or
decadent in communist terminology.

~~~
fewers
There's a fair amount of museums, interesting areas and elaborate buildings in
Shenzhen. But it's not like Europe where everything is in one place, it's a
huge city. I don't think HK is very strong at public things, except national
parks and to some extent transport.

------
jake-low
I was pleasantly surprised by this article after being primed by the click-
baity "listicle" title.

One claim that stuck out to me:

> [As several hundred million people moved from the countryside into urban
> areas] ... Wages and living standards have risen to create the biggest rapid
> boost in prosperity the world has seen, ever.

Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this? What other times in human history
would be in the running for this "title"?

~~~
jpatokal
The Great Divergence (aka the Industrial Revolution's impact on GDP) is the
obvious candidate:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divergence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divergence)

But the population of Europe at the time or even America is only a fraction of
China's, and the speed of China's growth has been even more spectacular. It
took Britain ~50 years to double GDP between 1840 and 1890:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Biaroch_European_GDP_per_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Biaroch_European_GDP_per_capita_1830-1890.svg)

While China _tripled_ their GDP/capita (both US$ and PPP) in a bit over 10:
[https://www.lowyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/interprete...](https://www.lowyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/interpreter-
images/2012/1/120127-thirlwell-1.png)

~~~
dmurray
Doubling GDP in 50 years is not a lot. 1.4 percent annually compounded will do
that. The US postwar boom might be a better comparison.

~~~
arethuza
Looking at those charts it looks like that previous doubling of UK GDP took
~350 years.

~~~
RugnirViking
Those charts are GDP per capita; the population also increased in this time

------
cromwellian
They also left out Xinjiang, and while it doesn't have a Tier-1/Tier-2 city in
it, if you want to see the diversity of China, Gansu or Xinjiang are good.
Heavy security, but radically different landscape, food, and ethnic culture,
especially in the South. Oh, and less humid, blue skies, more breathable air.

I spent the July 4th holiday week there (and yes, it is relatively safe).

Nanning is also surprisingly upscale, after going to the rural areas of
Guilin, I didn't expect Nanning to be so well developed.

Shanghai is always my first love. Truly "mega", good infra, good food, etc.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I've been to Urumqi in 2006 and it wasn't that bad, a very standard Chinese
city with some cool nightmarkets and mosques. There are no other mega cities
to speak of, I haven't been to kashgar before.

Nanning is pretty meh, but then so are most of the cities on this list :).
Liuzhou is much more interesting, as it is stuck between Guilin and nanning
both geographically and in feeling (big city with embedded karst mountains and
not many tourists).

~~~
cromwellian
I went to Yangshuo before Nanning, it's a little more confining and touristy
but mostly Shanghainese, not Westerners. Turpan is like a cross between Urumqi
and Kashgar, in the sense that it has a high uighur population, much more
uighur culture and architecture, but still identifiably a Chinese city. Also,
many Uighurs in that area tend to speak surprisingly good English, which is
good because their Mandarin accent can be a bit thick,

To me, when you get to Kashgar you start to feel more like you're Central
Asia.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Yangshuo has more westerners than other places. If you find yourself in
gunagxi again, definitely check out liuzhou, it's Guilin's grittier twin.

I'd like to visit Kashgar someday. Northern xinjiang was really nice to tour
around also, except they didn't let me out of the van when we reached the
khazakistan border (no foreigners allowed).

~~~
cromwellian
Yeah, you need a special permit now if you don't have a Chinese ID, even of
you want to visit Koktokay, a recently added restriction. Our tourguide
managed to hustle us in by promising he would bring us back to the gate upon
leaving, proving that we had not crossed the border I guess. But he told us
that was probably the last tour he ever does to Koktokay.

------
sanxiyn
> Shenyang has Japanese modernist architecture from the 1930s, and the city's
> economy is in retreat, somewhat akin to America's Rust Belt. Maybe you've
> never heard of Shenyang, but the broader surrounding municipality has more
> than eight million people, making it more populous than many countries.

Shenyang is great, and it is kind of criminal not to mention that Shenyang is
the old capital of Qing empire. You should visit the imperial palace. It is
distinctively different from Forbidden City of Beijing.

~~~
dis-sys
No, it is not great. It is more like Detroit in the US - bad weather, high
unemployment rate and crime rate, dead heavy industry, huge outflow of its
local population.

If Shenyang is great, how come its population is dropping so fast?

~~~
daxfohl
_I_ like Detroit. Okay, fine, no I don't. But I live in Michigan and love the
rest of it. Low cost of living, great schools, reasonable opportunity for
educated workers. And I love the weather. Great for all seasons of outdoor
activity.

I'm curious if Liaoning (outside Shenyang) is the same way. (I've had a long-
running fascination with HeiLongJiang for reasons I don't understand myself,
though I've never been there)

~~~
schuke
Being from Liaoning but never been to Michigan, I must say it's not half as
good as the Michigan you described.

~~~
daxfohl
Well, save up some money on the coast, then move to (Western or Northern)
Michigan some day and live like a king. Okay, eating out can be hit-or-miss
(mostly miss), but some diamonds-in-the-rough do exist. Outdoors is great. I
mean if ascending whatever-K feet is the only qualifier then outdoors sucks,
but seriously everything else here, outdoors is great. Four seasons is like
being able to annually travel between four completely different regions of the
world without actually moving. And if you have a decent salary, get yourself
some awesome snow moving equipment, just to feel cool.

------
sjbase
Can anyone weigh in via personal experience: how much Chinese would I need to
learn to avoid getting pigeonholed to tourist areas in these cities? Is
Mandarin spoken pretty uniformly?

I'd love to go, and have used google translate extensively, but am concerned
about not being able to read signs. I agree that travel should be challenging,
but not to the degree that it kills the experience.

~~~
rsync
"Can anyone weigh in via personal experience: how much Chinese would I need to
learn to avoid getting pigeonholed to tourist areas in these cities? Is
Mandarin spoken pretty uniformly?"

I think this depends more on the traveler than on the city/nation. I don't
think there is anywhere that language necessarily pigeonholes you to tourist
areas - it's simply how comfortable or uncomfortable it makes you.

That being said, I think you would have very good luck in Hong Kong, for
obvious reasons. Beyond english accessibility, I find Hong Kong to be the most
fascinating and interesting city in the world. I love to be there and miss it
when I am not.

If you can find some kind of personal connection there - a meetup or
hackerspace or ... anything ... it is definitely helpful and will get you off
the beaten path much more quickly.

~~~
echion
> personal connection there - a meetup or hackerspace

HKGers should check out DimSumLabs (
[https://www.meetup.com/dimsumlabs/](https://www.meetup.com/dimsumlabs/) ) as
a really nice bunch (at least when I was there).

------
havella
For many of the reasons expressed here, specially the 'business culture' and
'hustling factor', China is the country that reminds me most of United States.

------
audi100quattro
Been to a few of these cities a couple of times. The development and culture
is amazing to see. The Shanghai museum is well curated, dongzhimen st. in
Beijing is great for food. Vegetarian food isn't too hard to come by if you're
ok with eggs. Monks are vegetarian, and if you can find a Buddhist temple, ask
them about food.

Need to make it to Shenzhen, and Chengdu sometime!

------
sanxiyn
> If you watch the Chinese making pilgrimages to Qufu, the burial site of
> Confucius, you'll learn just how strong the long-term continuity of their
> history is.

Qufu is highly recommended. It is the holy city with continuity streteching
back at least a thousand years, visited by many emperors from different
dynasties.

A similar site is Ise Grand Shrine in Japan.

------
factsaresacred
Guangzhou didn't make the cut. Perhaps too obvious a choice but it's easily
one of my favorite cities.

Great weather, cosmopolitan population, good food and close to HK. Plus feels
more chill than other cities.

------
Kiro
I don't like travelling. I'm normally completely uninterested in any
destination but this makes me excited for some reason.

~~~
kobeya
Maybe you should try traveling.

~~~
Kiro
What makes you think I haven't? I've travelled a lot.

------
daxfohl
Article claims 10, but I counted 12. My CN geography is good enough to know
that Yunnan and Sichuan are provinces, but maybe some of the proper nouns were
too. Anyway here are the ones I counted. Any errors?

1\. Kunming (Yunnan)

2\. Chongqing

3\. Qingdao

4\. Zhengzhou

5\. Xian

6\. Nanjing

7\. Dalian

8\. Shenyang

9\. Chengdu (Sichuan)

10\. Qufu

11\. Beijing

12\. Shanghai

London, New York and Paris (not China IIRC)

Does anyone know google maps (or whatever) well enough to make a URL with
markers for all these?

~~~
sanxiyn
I think the intent is not to include Chengdu and Qufu. Chengdu is not
described as a destination (just for cuisine), and Qufu is not a megacity.

~~~
daxfohl
Haha, Chengdu is the only one I've been to (having been lots of other places
in China). Oh, okay Beijing too...fine.

Best cuisine? Frankly I liked the old Hui stronghold of Ningxia the best.
Plain old noodle soup, but to perfection every time. And very good who-knows-
what-that-might-be-but-who-cares-its-delicious satay all around. Chengdu would
be a close second though.

While I respect the culinary history of China, IMO SE Asia and India both blow
all regions of China out of the water. (Though Taiwan, if you think of it as
part of China, being my first ever overseas habitat, holds a bit of a soft
spot in my cuisinitude).

------
pmlnr
Chengdu is a wonderful city, despite the pollution problems, and it's
surroundings - Emei, Qingcheng, Jiuzhaigo, Huanglong - are unique,
magnificent, and rather less known for westerners. Visit them while you can.

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seanmcdirmid
Zhengzhou most definitely was never a ghost city, being one of China's 8
ancient capitals. Maybe they meant zhengdong? Ghost cities in china are almost
always underpopulated districts of existing large cities.

~~~
halfelf
Zhengzhou was a ghost city and hasn't been a capital for more than 2000 years.
Its developing to major city in China in the modern sense only begins in 20th
century, after the railway traffic prosperous here.

------
onetokeoverthe
The world will be a better place when we strap vr goggles on these chinese
tourists and keep them home.

