
First Year University Expenses in Canada - RustyTool
https://bopeng.io/first-year-university-expenses/
======
stevewepay
When I went to U of T, my tuition started at around $1900, and ended at
$2500/year in my final year, all of which was covered by my scholarship. In
addition, residence at New College was about $6000/year including meal plan.
So you could pay for your entire year's tuition, or a huge chunk of it, by
working a minimum wage job (I think that was ~$6/hr at the time). If you
lucked out and got a decent $9/hr job, then you were living on easy street.

My parents weren't rich enough to pay for more than the residence costs, so I
needed to get a part time job in order to do anything outside of school. It
was just enough so that I could go out every now and then or buy a CD. But I
left school with zero debt.

The idea that kids today leave school with 6 figure debts is crazy to me.
Being disadvantaged with such a huge debt load means they can't afford to take
risks, which is something that young people should be able to do. It's at the
point where it might not be worth it to pay for that top school education if
it means becoming and indentured servant to your debt.

~~~
RustyTool
I agree, it's really unfair. I've had countless friends who ha d to stay
local, since they couldn't afford dishing an additional $10k in living
expenses elsewhere.

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chunky1994
Some context here:

1) This is for _one_ , 4 month term at university in Canada (uwaterloo
specifically) for an engineering degree. Other degrees are lesser in cost
(math is similar, which includes CS) A lot of the miscellaneous fees drop off
in the second term (you only pay them once per year).

2) These are domestic fees, international fees are much higher (approx 3x) but
still only around 1/3rd of the international US tuition.

3) This includes residence and food in it.

4) Co-op fees are paid for every term before you go on co-op, engineering
typically has 6 terms before we graduate.

5) It is _FAR_ cheaper to live off campus and cook.

6) It is still far cheaper than the US universities (even if you're in state)

EDIT: The image for the _fees_ was for one 4 month term.

~~~
betaby
Would it be cheaper to go study, say in Germany? Education is free and your
expenses are food and roof?

~~~
wyclif
Higher education is not free in Germany. It may seem like "free" compared to
the US and Canada, but there are still minor fees. Don't get me wrong, it's
vastly cheaper to study in Germany than in other western countries.

~~~
whisdol
To elaborate on "minor fees": For the current semester (6 months), a student
at a public university in Cologne pays around €250 [0][1].

For the FH Köln, the exact amount is €246.20. This comprises the following:

* Administrative fee for "Kölner Studentenwerk", providing services such as cheap apartments or help with financial questions: €68.00

* Public transport ticket for the VRS region (around Cologne): €116.80

* Addon ticket for public transport in the whole state (NRW): €48.10

* Fee for the student council ("AStA"): €13.10

* Solidarity contribution (for Eastern Germany): €0.20

There may be additional fees for some courses, such as 100€ for "study
material" for distant learning courses. Public universities _may_ also offer
some courses that require you to pay, as the FH Köln does for their Master's
program for Game Development. However, the vast majority of courses don't
require such fees.

Of course, there are also private universities. Their fees are roughly
€400-€700/month.

[0] For the FH Köln: [https://www.fh-
koeln.de/en/academics/fees_5908.php](https://www.fh-
koeln.de/en/academics/fees_5908.php) [1] For the University Köln:
[http://verwaltung.uni-
koeln.de/studsek/content/studium/rueck...](http://verwaltung.uni-
koeln.de/studsek/content/studium/rueckmeldung___bankverbindung/)

------
xyzzyz
For comparison:

Five Years (BS + MSc) University Expenses in Poland (University of Warsaw):

\- Registration fee (for BS and MSc separately): 80 zł (~$25) * 2 = $50

\- Hard copies of diplomas: 2 * 100 zł (~$30) = $60.

I am quite happy with the education I got there, and US companies seem to hold
it pretty highly, based on how many people they hire out of my university.

Come to think of it, the diploma fee is not actually obligatory -- if you
don't need the hard copy, you don't have to pay.

Oh, and there are fees for failing classes and having to repeat them, but
there are also scholarships for doing well, so it cancels out.

~~~
dom96
Are you saying that University of Warsaw charges no tuition fees?

~~~
realo
Yep... That is what he said.

However please bear in mind that it it is free ONLY for the 38 million Polish
citizens. Foreigners must pay something.

Ref: [http://www.studyinpoland.pl/en/index.php/education-in-
poland...](http://www.studyinpoland.pl/en/index.php/education-in-
poland/19-questionsanswers)

~~~
dom96
I still find that surprising. I actually am a Polish citizen (living in the
UK) and I did not know that.

~~~
pascalmemories
Or study in Scotland where tuition should be free for you too. Only English,
Welsh and Northern Irish pay in Scotland (Northern Irish seem to have the
option to take up an Irish passport then qualify for the free tuition too -
I'm sure someone else on HN will explain the mechanics of that). But it's not
simply free tuition - you have living expenses too and moving to another
country can make these much higher than a resident who gets to stay with their
parents or relatives to cut costs.

I'm not sure how useful it is in general for people to forum shop round
countries for education, except for Americans where going domestic seems to be
a recipe for permanent debt rather than improving life opportunities. Even
expensive countries seem to be a way better option for Americans seeking to
avoid the constant thread of bankruptcy.

~~~
RustyTool
Wow, today I learned tuition is free in Scotland. How's the average income?

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acchow
For those reading this and thinking that it's "not much cheaper than America"
are missing a major point - student loans work differently there.

This article is about the University of Waterloo in Ontario. Ontario student
loans are need-based, and each academic year any loan amount beyond $7,300 is
forgiven.

See also
[https://osap.gov.on.ca/OSAPPortal/en/A-ZListofAid/PRDR008169...](https://osap.gov.on.ca/OSAPPortal/en/A-ZListofAid/PRDR008169.html)

~~~
RustyTool
The Ontario student loans program are pretty decent. Though, there's always
that scenario where your family income is high, so your loan amount isn't
forgiven.

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betaby
I would say that a lot! Median salary in Ontario is $49,088, before taxes,
university expenses of 27kCAD are insane for me in that scale! I literally
paid zero euros for whole 5 years in university, the only expenses I had were
obviously housing (with roommates to save money), groceries, public transit
(cheap with student card) and clothing.

~~~
slantyyz
>> Median salary in Ontario is $49,088, before taxes, university expenses of
27kCAD are insane for me in that scale!

What's also insane is that the average _detached_ home in Toronto just hit
over 1M last week ([http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/07/07/toronto-
average-h...](http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/07/07/toronto-average-
house-price-hits-1052-million-record.html)). I live just north of Toronto near
a highly desirable high school, and there are usually bidding wars on homes. A
lot of houses sell over asking. Getting 100K over asking is not unheard of.

I bought my house 10 years ago (and thought I was overpaying back then), and I
don't know how people can afford to buy a home these days in the GTA. In the
decade that I bought my house, property values in my neighborhood have doubled
and then some, and I'm pretty sure salaries have not.

A lot of young families live in my area, and I can't imagine how expensive
tuition will be when their small children are ready for a post-secondary
education. Juggling a gigantic mortgage and saving for your kids' education is
incredibly tough these days.

~~~
RustyTool
Imagine having multiple children to support...

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cucumeris
Definitely an upcoming issue. The 10% increase in minimum wage or so in no way
compensates for the 1000% increase in tuition fees.

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CoolGuySteve
It's so strange to see that tuition has increased >50% since I graduated from
CS in 2007. Even if CS and Engineering charge different rates, I didn't expect
that much of a difference or how much it outpaced inflation.

It's a shame Waterloo is falling into the US model of paying expensive tuition
for fancy new buildings.

~~~
RustyTool
International tuition is even more insane than domestic. This past year,
international fees raised by 9%! The year before, it raised by only 4%.

~~~
CoolGuySteve
Ya, I remember them being in the neighbourhood of $10k when I went and I
thought that was expensive.

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tylerpachal
Interesting that they pay a co-op fee in first year.

I only had to pay co-op fees for the semesters before I actually went on a co-
op term; and the first co-op term wasn't until after second year.

Although it wasn't a huge part of the overall cost, $500+ is still a
significant amount of money for a first year student.

 _I went to Dalhousie University_

~~~
RustyTool
You actually have to pay all 8 terms of school, even if you only take 6 co-op
terms. Also, the co-op fee increases every year as well.

~~~
chunky1994
This isn't true for waterloo. (Bo was probably in 4 stream.) We only pay for
the terms before we actually go onto co-op.

EDIT: As he points out below, it's different for different programs (even
within engineering some pay 2 terms before their first term and some pay 1
term before. However the fees continue onwards for every term that the student
is not in co-op).

~~~
RustyTool
I am in stream 8 engineering. I was charged in both my 1A & 1B term. Edit: I
believe it's different for non-engineering co-op students.

------
toolslive
Why don't Americans go to Europe for their University degree?

~~~
roel_v
\- Because they'd have to live in Europe for the duration of that degree

\- Because loans are harder to get or impossible, depending on circumstances

\- Because grants are exceedingly rare in such a case

\- Because despite (some) American's belief about Europe, it still costs money
to study here, and living here is just as expensive as in the US. You won't be
able to afford a car, for example, as a student (yes yes not all US students
have one either, what I'm saying is that it's a significant adjustment to what
many of them are used to)

\- Because it results in a European degree, which may be only a small problem
for some (US) employers, but is probably somewhere between 'hmm, peculiar' and
'hell no' for most of them

\- Because they'd be away from 'home' for 4 years or more, unless they'd spend
5-10k over the course of those 4 years traveling back and forth

\- Because outside of STEM (and even then), language issues are non-negligible

------
PillowMaster
Wow, college tuition is cheap in Canada. Would it be worthwhile for an
American citizen to pay international fees to attend uWaterloo?

~~~
graeham
International rates in Canada are more than domestic. When I was there c.
2007, it was about $5500 for domestic and $15000 for international. It was
still less than most American schools of comparable standing, although
sometimes more than State schools' in-state rate.

At the moment you'd also be getting something like a 20% discount for the
dollar exchange rate.

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scosman
"$50 a month on entertainment" < your not spending enough time at The Bomber
:)

~~~
RustyTool
I may or may not be old enough to enter the Bomber. :3

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testerPhone
How does University of Waterloo compare to other Canadian schools?

~~~
bobosha
Waterloo is the MIT of Canada.

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interdrift
So basically Canada doesn't want any east Europe citizen.

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curiousjorge
hmmm maybe east coast Canada is different from west coast? Here we have
primarily commuter schools where vast majority of students live at home and
use subsidized public transport (so no campus culture, isolated student body
unless you join a club), apart from the international students who commute in
Lambo and Ferraris (I'm sure they have no problem paying 10x what a Canadian
pays).

Living on campus first year was expensive but I don't think I ever spent more
than a couple thousand bucks per semester with a 4 course as full load that
lasts 4 months. Science courses were the cheapest based on my experience of
switching majors many many times. Business courses were the most expensive and
the easiest and had no substance. We had like one student union fee which
wasn't much, food was cheap if you just ate instant food. Oh and I spent like
3.5~4 hours daily just commuting to campus and back for 3 years. I remember I
did some math and I spent a few months of my life just on commuting. All that
work to get a piece of paper that can't even be used as toilet paper because
it's so rough or rolled to smoke herbs due to fact that it emits toxic fumes
upon combustion from the ink which says I'm qualified for absolutely nothing.

~~~
jarek
How to tell a B.C.-raised person on the internet: They call Toronto or
Waterloo "east coast" ;)

Waterloo is not a commuter school, a 45-minute one-way commute would be really
bad. Schools outside the GTA are similar, few people decide to do stuff like
live with parents in Chatham and drive to a school in London but it's not
common. GTA schools will have longer commutes because it's bigger, rent close
to schools tends to be expensive, and transport sucks.

But that's not unlike Metro Vancouver vs rest of B.C. really. I doubt many
people do 3 hour commutes to UVic.

~~~
RustyTool
For schools in GTA like York, UofT, Ryerson, I would actually classify them as
'commuter' schools, especially York. A lot of my friends ended up going to one
of these three schools to save money.

