
The Office of the Future Will Still Have a Terrible Bathroom - mxhold
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-08/the-office-of-the-future-will-still-have-a-terrible-bathroom
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Someone1234
> it's unease around the gap between the door and the partition

Why is this a thing in the US? I legitimately don't understand it.

As to the article overall: This is an interesting topic that is rarely
discussed. I often see embarrassed bathroom patrons utilise the disabled-
accessible bathroom because it is it's own room (i.e. not stall-separate,
wall-separate).

I have no issue with gender neutral bathrooms, but from what I hear around the
watercooler, women's bathrooms are a LOT nastier than men's (or at least
that's how women tell it). Too many women trying to hover and getting it
wrong.

But it would be interesting if companies starting doing a "private bathroom"
as a perk again, something that was popular some time around the 1980s.

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mc32
Just make them all unisex. What's wrong with unisex bathrooms, so long as they
have partitions and not troughs or heads out in the open and have the urinals
sectioned off at one end.

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Someone1234
I answered this in my post...

> I have no issue with gender neutral bathrooms, but from what I hear around
> the watercooler, women's bathrooms are a LOT nastier than men's (or at least
> that's how women tell it). Too many women trying to hover and getting it
> wrong.

~~~
mc32
If the stalls are cleaned out nightly I don't see there being a cleanliness
issue. People with gastric issues can cause nastier environs irrespective of
sex or gender.

And if hovering is an issue then clean nightly so people don't feel they need
to hover and second educate. Talk about it... Lastly think about squat
toilets. Easy maintenance.

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pi-err
I remember having been immediately struck by differences in office bathrooms
between California and UK/France/Germany (where I worked).

The offices were usually nicer overall in the US (roomier, more recent),
except for the bathrooms. Small, low quality, like 2 stalls in a 600 persons
building. Usually pretty far away from work stations.

Turns out labor code enforces much higher standard for bathrooms in most
Europe countries. IIRC for France: 1 stall for 10 person minimum, with a top
value somewhere (maybe 10 stalls max), with adequate AC, lighting, water-
saving systems, etc. There's a maximum walking distance to workspace. I
believe it also now requires full-size partitions (or maybe in mixed toilets
only if there's not enough room for separate). It should also now be 100%
accessible in new office constructions and redevelopments. An architect friend
told me those costs do add up, so the money doesn't go in fancier paint or
lighting. It can also limit growth in team size if there are not enough stalls
in the building.

I suppose it doesn't change in the US as a perfect "dark design": shitty
bathrooms means people will use them less.

So bathrooms sum up the pros/cons of market regulation.

Also speaking of regulation, I like that the german labor code requires that
all employees should have permanent access to daily light (with precise lumen
values).

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scurvy
I work at a company whose office gets a fair amount of press for being cool
and "stylish." What you don't see in the press is the half of the office whose
only natural light is a 1 sq ft porthole in the corner. It's a dark,
depressing work environment that shouldn't be legal. The other half of the
building is "open" and "stylish." I seriously wish we had those German laws to
prevent situations like this.

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ssharp
The University I used to work for had started the practice of building several
small one-person bathrooms next to one another, so the would be a block of
three or four bathrooms by each other. I found this to a nice setup but I'm
sure this would cost far more than a men's bathroom with toilet stall, urinal
and sink and a women's bathroom with two stalls and a sink.

I used to go to night classes after working all day and would often times want
to change from my business casual attire to something more comfortable. Having
those types of bathrooms certainly made changing easier and more private.

I'm sure the University had various reasons for doing this, but I think the
spark had come to help alleviate anxiety regarding bathroom use by non-cis
persons.

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CWuestefeld
At a resort I've been to a few times, the nightclub area had a cool design. It
was a largish round room with sink in the middle. The perimeter was individual
tiny rooms with just a toilet. These were all gender-neutral, I guess that's
OK because they were actual rooms, having walls and doors.

It seems like that gender neutrality would allow for extra efficiency, so that
the dense-pack around the perimeter of a single restroom can handle more
potential guests.

I never asked about how it affects cleaning effort, though.

In any case, the original article points out specific OSHA regulations. So it
doesn't really matter if there are alternate designs that could work better;
you're still stuck in the traditional paradigm, as regulation always acts as a
drag on innovation.

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lobotryas
I'm surprised to hear that people have found the bathroom going experience so
suboptimal, but I can understand where they are coming from. The vertical gap
between door and frame is sometimes more than a finger wide!

Personally, I mostly find the situation funny. I figure I've
heard/smelled/been adjacent to my colleagues going to the bathroom more than
any other member of my family. There's also something humanizing about seeing
your VP walk out of a stall (eye contact optional) after you just smelled them
commit acts most foul.

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noxToken
The vertical gap issue has always been weird to me, but I don't understand the
issue with going to the bathroom in general.

It's something that we all do. I would better understand it if only half the
population were afflicted with this strange curse called the poops, while the
rest of us had digestive systems that could convert all waste into urine.
That's not how it is though.

Everybody poops. Within the next 48 hours, it is pretty much guaranteed that
all of your coworkers (from the sheepish new hire to the disgruntled 15 year
veteran) will release something foul from their back end. Males, females and
everything in between included. Most of them will probably stink something
awful.

Everybody poops. Let's end this strange taboo.

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settsu
Are so many adults that insecure and self-centered that they think everyone is
focused on their bathroom activities? I'm certainly not paying that close
attention. That said, I flush for noise and smell out of courtesy but not
because I'm ashamed of something that I largely can't control.

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turar
Gender inequity in tech has one downside if you are a male -- lack of
bathrooms. If there is one male and one female bathroom on the floor, and
male-to-female gender ratio is 5:1, then you're gonna have a bad time. :)

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voidlogic
Men cycle through a bathroom much faster than women when urinating (ever been
to a sports event?).

I imagine someone must have urination vs defecation stats. I'd like it be like
30:1 or something.

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untog
> I imagine someone must have urination vs defecation stats.

Might make for a tricky office survey.

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Thrymr
Luckily, the wired bathroom of the future will gather these stats for us!

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zimpenfish
We have two (2) cubicles and two (2) urinals for probably 200 males. One
cubicle currently has a broken seat and the other is frequently (at least once
a week) blocked with toilet paper and filth (properly splattered all over, of
course).

It's the worst office bathroom situation I've ever encountered.

~~~
jsprogrammer
That is grossly out of code [0]. With only two urinals, there should be a
minimum of six full toilets.

Management should be alerted to the violation ASAP so that they can take
immediate corrective action, followed up by a complaint to OSHA.

[0]
[https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_tab...](https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9790)

~~~
singron
Our office has the same issue. The problem is, the code only talks about
number of employees but not proportional allocation between genders. It's
possible that they have 200 men but less than 230 employees. This means they
need 8 waterclosets, but naturally the builders made 4 for women and 4 for
men. It's up to code, but don't expect to always be able to use the bathroom
at work.

~~~
jsprogrammer
The table is per sex. So, if you have 100 females, you need at least 5 water
closets available to females.

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ryandrake
If the bathroom environment is really the worst thing about your workplace,
you're doing alright.

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JoeAltmaier
Everything about the stall door was irrelevant. They are made so cheap and
with such gaps because, they are cheaper that way. They won't go down to the
floor because, that would be 12" more material cost. They won't ever fit
closely because, they sag and bend because they're cheaply installed. All the
blather about how they could be different is ignoring the cost factor, which
would be large.

ON a different note, I visited a dept store bathroom recently and was surprise
to see, it was a hallway of individual bathrooms! Irrelevantly, they were
marked Male and Female. If only one person is in it, why does it matter? The
one at my house, upstairs first door on the right, is unisex.

~~~
fluxquanta
>Irrelevantly, they were marked Male and Female.

Anecdotally, my office has about 60 employees and 8 individual bathrooms.
They're fully enclosed with sinks and their own heavy closing doors. They also
are all equipped with a white noise machine that's connected to the ceiling
light switch. I guess we're pretty lucky to have this setup.

About two years ago, however, someone complained that all of the bathrooms
were becoming "too dirty" in between weekly cleanings and it was blamed on the
men. Therefore, three of the restrooms are now women only, while the remainder
are unisex. It seems a bit unfair, but nobody has cared enough to complain.

~~~
josinalvo
> Therefore, three of the restrooms are now women only, while the remainder
> are unisex. It seems a bit unfair, but nobody has cared enough to complain.

Even if today nobody complains, the company might have suffer a lawsuit in the
future, by a disgruntled employee.

Better to fix that now, perhaps

~~~
fluxquanta
I could say something, but my boss (the company owner) isn't the most
receptive to suggestions like this.

It took nearly three years of my complaining to finally get an End User
License Agreement for our product, for example.

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zeveb
> OSHA rules require that workplace bathrooms remain clean and dry and a mop
> can slide right under partitions.

Well, that explains why so many public bathroom stalls in Europe are nice,
private, fully-enclosed spaces and none in America are. Thanks, OSHA /s

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Cthulhu_
With the downside that cleaning them is a bit more difficult (and expensive),
since you have to pay more attention to the (lower) end of the partitions, as
a cleaner. More effort, or possibly even another OSHA violation because the
cleaners would have to bend more (but I'm sure they can use a mop on the sides
too, or something). There's also the matter of time spent cleaning.

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gadders
I have always wondered why US toilet cubicles are so "gappy". In most of the
UK offices I have ever worked in, in the cubicle the toilet door is floor to
ceiling and closes completely - like being in your own mini-room with a toilet
in.

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brentm
I spent some time last year working out a We Work office in NY and I will say
one of the best things they did was create nice private bathrooms. Each stall
was a small private room in itself, similar to some airport lounges.

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samstave
At my current work, we have a completely separate bathroom with a shower - in
addition to "normal" bathrooms with a urinal and a stall toilet.

It's wonderful actually.

At Facebook there was one bathroom on the second floor of building 15 with a
shower as well. That was the best bathroom I found there.

It's great to have a nice bathroom and full privacy, it just makes it more
comfortable.

At sales force at fifty Fremont there is a guest bathroom adjacent to the main
reception on 36 that is individual and private - best restroom in that
building.

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mixmastamyk
I'm reminded of a gym I frequent, with blasting music out on the weightroom
floor. Of course it is pin-drop quiet in the toilet area. :/

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scurvy
Another tip: get rid of those stupid Dyson hand dryers. They're unsanitary and
don't work.

~~~
dominotw
hate those so much.

