

Galaxy Nexus ban remains, Apple posts $95.6M bond, Google stops selling - mjfern
http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/07/galaxy-nexus-ban-remains-in-effect-for.html

======
scarmig
Sigh. I've been planning on getting a new notebook and was leaning toward one
of Apple's products... but this has shifted me away.

I know, I know: no one cares about nerd ideologies. But I'll do my part and
lower their monthly revenues by 0.00001%.

~~~
rimantas
Well, you chose to avoid good product because of the stupid ideology. Why
stupid? Because you can easily find a reason to hate Google the same or even
more (the whole FRAND thing e.g.). OTOH, people are not rational, nothing new
here so this love/hate boils down to subjective preferences rationalized a
lot. I like Apple because they make damn good products. Damn good products
make them damn good money. Google makes money from ads. I hate ads. But
strangely enough I feel neutral about Google. As for the patents and this
case: it was said more than once there—hate the game, not the player.

~~~
huggyface
_the whole FRAND thing_

Why would I hate Google for that? Motorola was cooperative and competitive
with partners and despite all of their innovation they ended up -- like most
of their traditional smartphone partners -- with most of their creations
ending up in standards. Getting attacked by Apple and Microsoft they try to
force a settlement with what they have. there is _nothing_ in that that makes
me dislike Motorola cum Google.

 _it was said more than once there—hate the game, not the player._

The xbox may be blocked because of critical, foundational patents, but I'm
supposed to feel bad about the parties because they tried to be cooperative
about them. The Galaxy Nexus is blocked because of laughable patents.

There is no question who the worse party is in this, and it's only a matter of
time before something sticks and the iPhone/iPad is blocked from importation.
We'll see how people like the game then.

~~~
taligent
This is laughable wrong. Motorola has never been cooperative with Microsoft.
They are the ones being the aggressor and have used FRAND patents to do so.
They've been nothing but underhanded at every opportunity.

And if Google/Motorola are so cooperative then why are the FTC/EU
investigating them for anti-competitive behaviour ?

~~~
huggyface
Oh how astonishingly boring.

Microsoft sued Motorola after they couldn't extort them into making
uncompetitive Windows Mobile devices. Motorola responded with standards-based
patents and non-standards based patents, with the clear intention of trying to
get a stalemate settlement. The "cooperative" part was that Motorola has
thousands if not tens of thousands of patents that play a part in standards
because they are a part of the whole moving things forward.

 _And if Google/Motorola are so cooperative then why are the FTC/EU
investigating them for anti-competitive behaviour ?_

Derpedeederp derp. The government investigates almost everything that any
large multinational does. There are active investigations of Microsoft, Apple,
Google, Oracle....if it's a big company there's probably an investigation of
it. Secondly that EXACTLY goes to my original point -- Motorola made the
"mistake" of daring to be a good innovation citizen before some upstarts came
along and started extorting and patent trolling for every hilariously trivial
patent.

~~~
taligent
Very mature response.

1\. Motorola is obligated to not use standards based patents against
implementers of the standard. Under ANY circumstance. It undermines the entire
foundation of the industry and without standards we all lose.

2\. No government is investigating Microsoft or Apple for patent abuse. And it
is ridiculous to assume that the government just investigates any
multinational company.

~~~
novalis
You talked about: "And if Google/Motorola are so cooperative then why are the
FTC/EU investigating them for anti-competitive behaviour ?"

But now the goal post moved to patent abuse investigations, keep in mind that
monopoly investigations and patent law can be engaged by diff state
institutions, depending on the most effective engagement method, so you may
have patent law dispute in the courts in any country and monopoly
investigations conducted by an European entity. So while at any given moment,
not having one corporation under investigation or defendent status does not
push the innocent/guilty pendulum anywhere when acessing any given case. Or is
it an indication of antagonistical reversable jurisprudence. The case at hand
comes to mind.

Also, any multinational company is under the scrutiny of any government or
substitutive supra governamental entity with attributed powers to do so and
that is the way it will stay. There is nothing ridiculous about it. It is a
needed lawful check for international law and the required balance for the
implementation and usage of the Uniform Commercial Code.

------
Karunamon
Despicable. That's really the only polite word I have for both Apple's
actions, and the current state of our patent system.

~~~
colinplamondon
Compare Android to Windows Phone, Android tablets to the Surface, and the
Lumia to the Galaxy Nexus.

Google and their partners could have taken the high road and created their own
take on what a touch screen phone OS is, but instead they took the low road
and did a wholesale look and feel copy and paste job of iOS to get scale.

Copying look and feel isn't actual wrongdoing, but it's certainly not the high
road.

Now Apple is taking the low road and trying to smack the fuck down Google
legally, instead of taking the high road and competing on its own merits.

Both companies have taken the low road, and both companies are culpable here-
no one comes out looking good in this story.

~~~
angryasian
If we're comparing current iterations. Android now looks nothing like ios and
in actuality ios is looking more like android. Adding polish and bigger icons
for touch to existing ui was all Apple did. Objectively look back at early
Blackberry and Nokia phones. Where they they completely innovated on was
multitouch and getting rid of the stylus.

~~~
sbuk
"Yeah, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

~~~
angryasian
I didn't mean to discount their accomplishments as I do think they made huge
strides in the pushing of manufacturing of mobile components along with
pushing the competition. But the look of grid icons, and pim applications has
relatively remained unchanged.

------
CountSessine
I don't understand why Apple is going after the Galaxy Nexus. In terms of UI,
it's not really very similar to anything Apple makes, and to me at least, I
don't think that either Apple or Google are trying to exploit consumer
confusion to sell it.

The Galaxy S2 and S3 with TouchWiz, OTOH, are a different story. I would
imagine that what Apple is really pissed off about is being the target of
Samsung's shameless copy-and-undercut strategy that's worked so well for them
in mobile in the past. TouchWiz is a really gauche copy of just about
everything iOS. I'm actually quite happy that Samsung is getting called on
this bullshit.

But the Galaxy Nexus? Huh?

~~~
veidr
I think I understand why, having just bought one when I went to the US for
WWDC last month (seems to have been fortunate timing).

Unlike some crapware-laden blatant iOS-wannabe Android phones, the Galaxy
Nexus is a pretty great phone that is _different_ and _better_ than the iPhone
in many ways. But, unlike most Android phones I have seen, it still provides a
fairly elegant and clean user experience that is attractive to the same kind
of user that the iPhone is (me, for instance; so far, I buy a new iPhone every
time Apple introduces one).

Of course, _better_ means different things to different people, but here are
some of the things I found to be superior, per my preferences as a user:

• much bigger screen (I strongly prefer the tradeoff of making it marginally
harder to reach the top opposite corner with my thumb in exchange for being
able to see more usable information with my eyes) for better book reading and
web browsing

• typing feels better and is more accurate (due to larger size & haptic
feedback I think)

• incomparably better maps navigation; even when I already have my iPhone 4S
_in my hand_ I get the Galaxy Nexus out of the backpack if I need directions

• no worrying that Apple will rip me off retroactively, by disabling an app I
bought from them (the Airfoil Speakers debacle) to protect some fucked
licensing arrangement to make my phone work only with expensive proprietary
hardware and not with standard commodity hardware

• can load any software I want, not just from the maker's app store, without
requiring me to exploit a bug in the OS to jailbreak

• integrates with Google Voice

It does have deficiencies, too; it crashes much more than my iPhone, the OS
lacks the level of polish in a lot of ways, camera isn't as good, etc. Which
is better depends on the user, and still would probably be the iPhone for
most.

My point is just that the $349 unlocked Galaxy Nexus has some aspects which
could be considered advantages over the iPhone, but it is still appealing to
exactly the kind of user that the iPhone appeals to. Somebody who wants a
smooth, uncluttered, pretty pocket computer that "just works" with minimal
hassle. Google removes the crapware, gets rid of the funk-ass nonstandard UI
skins, provides all the system updates, automatically links up with whatever
services in their ecosystem you use... so with this phone they've done the
best job of creating that type of product.

Therefore, to the iPhone, I think the Galaxy Nexus is the most directly
threatening Android phone yet produced.

So, supposing you were an asshole with some bogus patents to go trolling with,
that's probably where you'd want to start.

------
naner
Can we find better sources?

Florian Müller has failed to disclose when he is consulting/working for
companies he is writing about and has been pretty seriously wrong in his
"predictions", most notably the Oracle v. Google case over Java/Android.

------
juliano_q
Isn't it ironic that the Galaxy Nexus (along with the rest of the Nexus line)
is almost the only Android phone that Google can quickly update the software,
remove/change the stuff that Apple supposedly "own" and sell it again quickly?
If the ban happened for almost all other Android devices the pain would be
much bigger. I am an Android phone and Macbook owner and I am really ashamed
by Apple actions, I will not buy anything of them again until they change
their attitude.

------
mharmon14
Irreparable harm seems to imply that this could hurt Apple in a major way.

But it's easy to see what game-changing technology is. Look at what people
want in a phone:

[http://mashable.com/2011/10/03/iphone-5-wish-list-starts-
wit...](http://mashable.com/2011/10/03/iphone-5-wish-list-starts-wit..).

There's tens of similar surveys published online. None of them include
"search-as-u-go". In fact Apple doesn't seem to think that it's that big
enough of a deal to promote. They advertise tens of features & this isn't one
of them. And that's because it's expected (everyone uses it already) or it's
not that important to a buyer when choosing a phone to purchase.

It's just not reasonable to assume that the "search-as-u-go" technology could
give any sort of significant advantage to Samsung to be the cause of a shift
in market share or something with similarly "unascertainable" consequences,
which is precisely what the ruling of irreparable damage relies on.

~~~
zmmmmm
> Irreparable harm seems to imply that this could hurt Apple in a major way

Yes, this is what bothers me most about it. Litigating bogus patents is one
thing, but this grandstanding about the impact of tiny features is sickening.
Especially after we had the ruling from Posner that it has to be the specific
feature in question that is causing the "irreparable" harm. It seems to me
that the irreparable harm is drastically tilted in Google's direction here, as
they are unable to market the latest version of their operating system,
potentially for months until iOS6 is released. Compare that to the tiny (non-
existent?) lost sales on Apple's side - supposedly due to customers saying
"hey, since Google's phone can search for apps and contacts on the same
screen, I'm buying that one!" - of their nearly obsolete iPhone4s, it seems
ridiculously unfair to me.

------
spaghetti
First of all this makes me want one even more. Secondly I wonder if Steve Jobs
would have cancelled this BS? I've been curious about Android development for
the nearly four years I've been doing iOS development. I'll start porting my
free ad-supported app to Android now. Bye Apple!

~~~
cryptoz
"I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny
of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong," Jobs told biographer
Walter Isaacson, in the book, which hit shelves last October.

"I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to
go thermonuclear war on this," Jobs said.

[http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57445837-37/jobs-
thermonuc...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57445837-37/jobs-
thermonuclear-war-quote-fair-game-in-court-judge-says/)

~~~
staunch
He always spoke in such certain terms that it seemed like everything was black
and white to him. His actual behavior tended to be much more tempered than his
rhetoric.

I think there's a very good chance he wouldn't have actually pushed the button
on stuff like this, as much as part of him may have wanted to.

~~~
goatforce5
I was of the understanding that he switch positions pretty suddenly. eg, he
could go from telling you why some idea was shit to the same idea being the
best thing ever over the course of 30 minutes (often then taking credit for
that idea).

------
arpit
This quote by paulg playing in my head today:
[http://webquotes.tumblr.com/post/251619085/the-other-
reason-...](http://webquotes.tumblr.com/post/251619085/the-other-reason-
programmers-are-fussy-i-think)

------
ptrklly
I actually had added the Galaxy Nexus to my shopping cart yesterday and then
tried to buy today but couldn't. It was only in reading this that I realized
why.

Does anyone have any insights into how many days/weeks before Google will be
able to sell it again?

------
bickfordb
Other than my own prejudice against the absurdity of patenting common sense
software features, I don't understand why this suit doesn't affect all Android
products?

It seems like the patented feature in question is pure software available on
other Android phones.

~~~
prodigal_erik
Unlike with trademarks, patent holders get a lot of leeway about whom to sue
and when without immediately endangering their patents through estoppel. I
don't know what makes waiting more effective and evil, but that's why they
have the option.

------
gouranga
Just remember Apple clutching people all around: You paid for that bond!

------
mtgx
I believe the original title said Galaxy Nexus. Way to be misleading by
implying it's the Nexus 7.

Also, people still read Foss Patents, the guy paid by Microsoft and Oracle to
write negative stories on Google, and who was completely wrong on anything he
said or suggested about the Google and Oracle trial?

~~~
taligent
Yes people still read FOSS patents because he is the ONLY one actually
covering the cases in detail. And I actually find him to be 100x more
professional than Groklaw e.g. their latest article, "Another Spanking for
Apple From Judge Posner".

~~~
morsch
It's not his professionalism that's being questioned but his profession...

------
UnoriginalGuy
The Galaxy SIII is still available and basically the same phone. Seems like
there are just too many Android devices for Apple to block them all, they're
just picking on the Galaxy Nexus to take a pot-shot at Google directly.

~~~
huggyface
_The Galaxy SIII is still available and basically the same phone_

The Galaxy S III is an entirely different device sharing virtually nothing
with the Galaxy Nexus.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
They share virtually nothing except:

    
    
      - Same Manufacturer    
      - Same Size    
      - Same Weight   
      - Same Resolution   
      - Same screen technology   
      - Same RAM    
      - Same storage

------
splamco
How is banning a product that might possibly be in violation of an absurd law
be in anyones best interest other than Apple's? Patent laws were intended to
benefit consumers, not predatory capitalists.

~~~
maxharris
Patents can't be justified on the basis of consumer benefit. While it's true
that some consumers benefit from patents, they're not the sole (or even
primary) beneficiary: the patent holders are.

Patents are justified because an individual has the right to the product of
his mind [and his body (labor); in reality, there is no difference, but I'm
emphasizing the mind here because the context is IP]. This is because survival
as a human being (whether alone or in a group) requires thought in order to
make the things needed to sustain a flourishing life. This is damned hard
work!

Copying the _product_ of someone else's thought (not the same as emulating
another person's method of thought, and applying it to a new situation)
deprives the originator of what is rightfully theirs: the untrammeled market
for their innovation, which would not exist were it not for their thoughts and
action.

(And no, not every idea is patentable, and not every patent applied for should
be granted. No, patents can't last forever. But those are comparatively minor
details that are incomprehensible if the fundamental idea stated above is not
understood.)

------
berberous
anyone have a link to the order? I want to read it.

~~~
berberous
I pulled it from PACER, in case anyone is curious:

Order granting injunction:
[https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49113/Order%20granting%20injunction...](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49113/Order%20granting%20injunction.pdf)

Order denying motion to stay:
[https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49113/Order%20denying%20motion%20to...](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49113/Order%20denying%20motion%20to%20stay.pdf)

I really wish more news sources would post these primary source materials
along with their stories. I've only ever seen WSJ do it for big cases.

------
cmelbye
This is just Galaxy Nexus, right? My Nexus 7 will still be shipped in 2-3
weeks?

------
stayclassytally
Begun, the phone wars have.

~~~
czr80
I think they started quite some time ago.

------
wissler
Please let this case turn into a hideous disaster, so that the patent system
is revealed to the public at large as the hideous disaster it is. Many a small
company's dreams have been quietly smothered by this patent system; the public
only starts to care if something nasty happens to a big corporation.

~~~
ericb
It needs to go the other way for the public to get it. A grand unveiling of a
gee-whiz apple project that everyone obsesses about having, only to be denied
because of a frivolous patent.

------
padmanabhan01
The elephant in the room is that Samsung did, and is still shamelessly trying
to make a carbon copy of the iPhone and the iPad. The similarities go beyond
casual coincidences. Right from the charger to the packaging to the layout to
.. almost everything. It is so obvious they are doing that. It is no surprise
Apple is going after them, and of course they should.

~~~
fidotron
Except that isn't the case for the Galaxy Nexus, which in terms of Samsung
phones deviates further from the iPhone than any of their others.

