
Google Removes Kongregate App from Android Market - jim-greer
http://venturebeat.com/2011/01/19/kongregate-arcade-appban-part-deux/
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jrockway
Wow, what a stupid decision. How is Kindle not an "app store"? How is a web
browser not an "app store"?

Dear Google: if you start censoring stuff now, then you will have to "take
credit" for all of the shit on the Marketplace that you haven't removed yet.

Mind boggling.

~~~
estel
Arguably this is the -primary- purpose of neither of these apps. One directly
allows the display and reading of books, whilst the other is primarily for,
uhhh, browsing the web. The Kongregate app was much more clear-cut in
providing a distribution method for Flash games which could have run without
the Kongregate framework.

~~~
Aaronontheweb
That's a mighty-fine hair to split. Don't you actually have to buy books from
Amazon in order to read them?

~~~
estel
I don't doubt it's a fine line (though only for Kindle), but I do think it's
at least arguable that as intrinsic as the store is to the product, the Kindle
app is better described as "reads books" rather than "sales books". Of course,
it would be trivial to split that either way: but the Kongregate app appears
at least somewhat more on one side of the definition.

~~~
Aaronontheweb
I thought Kongregate's apps were all free, ad-supported flash games? It's been
a while since I've used the service though.

~~~
benologist
They mostly are, although there's some that have virtual goods using their
Kreds system.

The best part about Kongregate is they _share_ the revenue with developers -
when they do the big campaigns like the Dragon Age one last year developers
were getting $4 - $5 per 1000 plays!

~~~
jim-greer
Everything in this app is/was free.

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wtracy
I'm going to side with Google on this one (though I might change my mind in
the future). Two reasons:

1\. Kongregate can distribute it's app outside the app store, though I hear
you guys about AT&T blocking apps outside the store. I might take this off my
list if Google starts doing more evil down the road.

2\. The main reason: Kongregate is free to bundle each of those games as a
separate app and put them on the store. The lawyers can argue all they want
about whether the Kongregate app violates the TOS by being an app store, but
certainly it violates the agreement in spirit.

Has anyone here dealt with the WildTangent client? It does roughly what the
Kongregate app is designed to do, but on Windows. It lives in memory and tries
to download new games at regular intervals. Frankly, it gets annoying.

Honestly, this smells like Kongregate is trying to push shovelware along with
their legitimate games. If Google lets them put their games up but not their
magic Kongregate App, that seems legitimate--especially if Kongregate is
allowed to make their Bonzi Buddy^H^H client app available outside the market.

Anyone care to explain why I'm wrong?

~~~
jim-greer
I really dislike spammy, bloatware like Wild Tangent too. Our app is not like
that, give it a try. It doesn't download anything without you're permission
and doesn't pester you.

On 1) agreed, that alone is one of the reasons I really prefer Android. But
the dialog you have to check to install non-market apps is pretty scary.

As for 2) give the app a try - I think you'll see for this kind of content a
rich browsing experience is much nicer than the Android Market.

~~~
wtracy
Fair enough, I haven't tried the app--I don't own a smartphone at the moment.

BTW, might I ask when Kongregate is planning to support html5 games? :-)

~~~
jim-greer
Didn't see this - we already support HTML5 games (via an iframe). We've gotten
very few submissions though.

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nym
While I'd prefer that Google didn't pull this move, you still can very easily
download it from Kongregate themselves.

~~~
jonursenbach
If your phone supports installing applications from unknown sources, yes.

~~~
peregrine
Don't all android phones have that option in the settings?

~~~
orangecat
AT&T removes that ability in their phones, although you can still install non-
market apps using tools from the Android SDK.

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jokermatt999
This is not a good sign. I went Android to _avoid_ these kind of practices. At
least I can still sideload. Does anyone have an apk for it?

~~~
Sephr
Why would you ever sideload on an Android device, where you have a full-
featured internet browser to download apks?

~~~
wmf
"sideload" now means "install through any means other than the app store".

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dpcan
This was brilliant.

If Kongregate had just blogged "Hey, look at our new Android app", they would
have gotten a little press and a few downloads.

Release in the Market and GET KICKED OUT OF THE MARKET ... BOOM - tons of
great press and now people are eager to see what's so great that Google had to
kick them out!

Pure marketing awesomeness (hopefully).

Seriously. It's not like it was a secret that this type of app wasn't allowed
in the Android Market. It's right there in the distribution agreement, plain
as day.

I really think, intentional or not, this was a great move that got way more
attention than had they just made an announcement on their blog.

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estel
The clause itself ([http://www.android.com/us/developer-distribution-
agreement.h...](http://www.android.com/us/developer-distribution-
agreement.html)) reads:

"4.5 Non-Compete. You may not use the Market to distribute or make available
any Product whose primary purpose is to facilitate the distribution of
Products outside of the Market."

~~~
flyingyeti
Is there a definition of "Products" that includes Flash games but does not
include music and e-books?

~~~
russell_h
From the same document:

 _Products: Software, content and digital materials created for Devices in
accordance with the Android SDK and distributed via the Market._

No idea what "In accordance with the Android SDK" means, and that doesn't seem
to apply to anything not otherwise available on the "Market".

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danilocampos
Guys, guys – it's fine. Let us not forget: _Android is open_. So clearly
there's nothing to be looked askance at here. We're not looking at it from the
right perspective or something.

Snark aside, I'd be happy if Google used their muscle to make things better
for the end user, then found ways to profit from that superior experience.
This is how they got their start. These days they're like a corporate zombie:
relentless, surprisingly strong and seemingly bereft of any guiding ideals or
purpose.

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Sephr
Under this reasoning, shouldn't Gameboid and similar emulator apps that
provide functionality for downloading and playing multiple games be pulled
from the marketplace too? Also, I have a gripe with the article itself:

> the flash games are cached inside the Arcade app, not directly downloaded
> and saved

How is caching _not_ "directly downloading an saving the game"? Other than
being occasionally pruned, it's the same thing.

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benologist
Really dick move by Google. Kongregate are awesome and they put a lot of work
and valuable real estate on their front page into making the Arcade.

It's a big win _for_ Google to allow it, but I guess they prefer the official
way for Flash games to get onto the marketplace - stolen or cloned by
fuckwits.

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kasted
Direct Link to app file:
[http://cdn2.kongregate.com/assets/files/0000/1998/Kongregate...](http://cdn2.kongregate.com/assets/files/0000/1998/KongregateArcade-
stock-release.apk)

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orangecat
Silly move. As noted it's not a big deal because you can easily get the app
directly (unless you were foolish enough to buy an Android phone from AT&T),
but if Google is going to pull this one I wish they'd also do something about
the thousands of spam apps on the Market.

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jim-greer
Joystiq has more info here: [http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/19/kongregate-ceo-
jim-greer-o...](http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/19/kongregate-ceo-jim-greer-on-
getting-pulled-from-the-android-mark/)

------
jim-greer
Joystiq has some more of my commentary on this and technical details:

[http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/19/kongregate-ceo-jim-
greer-o...](http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/19/kongregate-ceo-jim-greer-on-
getting-pulled-from-the-android-mark/)

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darrenkopp
i wonder what google is going to do when amazon launches their app store with
it being a _literal_ app store in every sense.

~~~
Kylekramer
Never gonna be in the Android Marketplace. Either Amazon is going to release
on their site and in what it probably their end game, work with OEMs and
carriers to have it preinstalled.

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catch23
hah! Sounds like Google is turning into an Apple.

~~~
nkassis
that's a little bit of a stretch to be claiming this. Not saying it's not a
shitty move just that they need another 5000+ shitty moves to be like apple.

~~~
ubernostrum
Why do we pile on with a dozen threads when Apple makes _one_ shitty move, but
say that we won't pile on google unless they make "5000+" shitty moves?

