
An Open Letter to Millennials Like Talia… - laurex
https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/an-open-letter-to-millenials-like-talia-52e9597943aa
======
marcus_holmes
I'm Gen X. I did a ton of pretty crappy jobs in my early 20's while I worked
out what I wanted. Building site labouring, warehouse picking, farm work,
retail work, you name it I did it. During that time, on the wages I earned
from those jobs, I could afford to rent a (small and pretty crappy) place to
live, eat 3 meals a day, maintain a car (though I ended up ditching it in
favour of public transport) and have some money left over for entertainment.

I never needed to work multiple jobs, and while I was never able to take
holidays or be extravagant, it was an OK life.

I was in the UK rather than the US, but I'm not sure that makes any
difference.

When did we accept that life in your early 20's needed to be so hard?

~~~
delinka
"When did we accept that life in your early 20's needed to be so hard?"

When was it ever otherwise? Sounds like you had it pretty good compared to the
previous generation at the same age. Better still than the generation before
that. How "easy" does it have to get before the perception will become that
it's not hard?

I see the problem as one of perspective. Unless we've actually been through
tough times, we feel we're having a tough time.

~~~
marcus_holmes
Actually my parents' generation had it even easier. For example, baby boomer
university students in the UK paid no tuition fees and were paid a grant by
the government to go to University. When I went to uni that grant was changed
to a loan. Now there's tuition fees on top.

Same for unemployment benefits. Stories from the 60's and 70's show British
counterculture surviving pretty well on benefits. When I did a 6-month stint
of unemployment in 1990 it was still possible - the state paid my rent and
enough money to feed myself and buy cigarettes and a few beers. Now it's a
brutally harsh life on benefits.

I know that's only examples of state handouts, but it's an indication of
attitudes. Again, when did we get so convinced that life had to be so tough?

~~~
JSDave
When the middle class has it hard, they become less sympathetic. I think
Thalia made a series of poor financial decisions, but there still needs to be
some kind of safety net.

~~~
AstralStorm
Middle class? That actually still exists in the US?

I'm pretty sure the divide is now razor thin: either you're pretty rich, or
poor...

------
saspiesas
I'm torn.

On one hand I do agree that she walked into the situation (living by herself,
accepting that wage) with eyes wide open. But on the other there are a few
valid points in both Talia's and Stefanie's letters that are, well, valid and
useful observations and suggestions.

However, they're both lost in the entirely immature way both of these people
went about expressing them. Both of these letters are full of erratic bursts
of emotion, irrelevant sidelines and unbacked up statements.

They're both just rants, one a little more refined and sanctimonious than the
other, but rants none the less.

------
foldr
I think there is maybe a special place in hell reserved for people who pretend
to give advice to others solely in order to show how superior they are.

------
jacalata
> But here I am, having survived my 20’s with some grace and a lot of
> humility.

Looks like she lost both of those somewhere along the way.

------
Mandatum
Talia's article enrages me. I've been off worse than her (similar ages, lower
pay, higher portion of income to living costs and MUCH longer hours), but the
way she's gone about it screams of oh-poor-me.

The fact of the matter is, we both made the decision to do what we did. No one
forced you to work for that company. No one forced you to move where you did.

SV is an extreme among extremes. If you didn't know what to expect, you didn't
research or plan. If you did, but now regret your decision.. You're human.

I doubt she ran this idea or article by many people, and likely posted in in a
very emotional state. She should have just given notice and left. Then wrote
about her experience.

Because she'll likely find out that she won't regret it. I certainly didn't. I
came out with thicker skin, many contacts and a newfound respect for people
who did that day in, day out out of necessity. I quit when I needed to, not
potentially tanking my future career (although nothing a name change couldn't
fix).

Another comment I read on here about this likely being a career move (to
writing) was likely right. In which case.. Well done.

------
AstralStorm
So now, living on your own is a luxury. Next will be access to water? I
understand that the US is lacking proper cheap housing, but this advice is
pretty ridiculous.

As a bonus, if you look poor, you will be denied high profile jobs. This is
the likely reason for the bourbon image, not bad spending practises.

------
wrong_variable
For some reason reading Talin's article made me really enraged.

If you read it you will realize quickly that she is ready to blame everything
else but herself.

Unfortunately she will be used by the media to portray the wrong picture of
Millennials.

Whatever attributes she has - is hers and hers only. It could be due to
parenting, it could be due to her environment, etc. But please do not use her
as a picture of the average Millennial.

~~~
maxxxxx
Maybe she is complaining too much but when I was in my twenties people
actually were paid OK money even for "low-end" jobs (even startups offered
better stock options compared to now). I think it's just disrespectful when a
company pays its people starvation wages. I guess this is another side effect
of inequality: Companies want their workers for free while spending insane
amounts on offices, executives and buying other companies.

Together with student loans, sky-high house prices and employers wanting them
to work for almost free, I understand that people in their twenties are down
on the system.

~~~
Turing_Machine
"Maybe she is complaining too much but when I was in my twenties people
actually were paid OK money even for "low-end" jobs "

I suspect I am a lot older than you, and I don't remember _any_ period in
which an entry-level customer service job paid enough money to support a
roommate or relative-free apartment, much less in one of the most expensive
cities on the planet.

~~~
maxxxxx
I am talking about the 80s

------
gorbachev
Nothing like kicking someone when they're down.

~~~
ap3
Life is hard - news at 11

No one with a US citizenship and a college education has a right to complain.

You can go live in any city you want and work at any job, start a business or
get unemployment checks.

Where I come from people die crossing the mountains & deserts just for a
chance to pick the vegetables that Talia couldn't buy.

Give me a break.

~~~
gorbachev
Life is hard partly because judgmental assholes like the person who wrote that
response.

------
slackerdude123
The correct answer to her complaint is a matter of historical record.

When the peasants (employees) complain that they cannot afford bread
(groceries), the proper royal (CEO) response should be: Let them eat rice.

------
Turing_Machine
When I was Talia's age I was pulling fourteen hour shifts on the slime line in
an Alaskan fish cannery. The current median wage for that job is $26,000/year.

So, yeah.

~~~
Mandatum
Fourteen hour shifts? Fourteen hour shifts!? In my day we'd work from 1AM
until 3AM the following morning, go to sleep for -2 hours, wake up and do it
all over again! We were paid in 19th century New Zealand shillings and had to
pay all of it back for living on the boss's premises!

(Sorry, had to throw a Monty Python reference there:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo))

I don't believe just because something was done one way before, means it
should affect how things are now. If we believe the way "something is" is
fundamentally wrong - just because it has been that way (or worse) should not
provide be a valid argument against said "something".

Kind of fits in to:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition)

~~~
Turing_Machine
Yes, fourteen hour shifts. For real. The fish guts and freezing cold water
were also for real. As was the rusty trailer I shared with four other guys.

The point here being that Talia, with her (now former) job answering the phone
in a nice warm room, and commuting to her nice warm apartment in the nice
trendy Bay Area, has it better than probably 90% of the human race has it
today, much less in the past.

Her apparently genuine surprise at being fired after publicly slagging off her
employer is just the icing on her entitlement cake.

~~~
Mandatum
We should really compare "like with like". Yes, you're adding perspective to
the argument. Perspective though fair, does not add value to the argument. It
simply dismisses it altogether.

Example:

John works a median job, earning a median salary and pays a median amount for
rent and living costs. However John's boss has recently made him work 2
additional hours of overtime each day for the past 3 months.

But on the other hand.. Mary is a 4 year old African toddler who works 20
hours a day sifting through muddy water for specs of diamond. If she falls
asleep or passes out she will surely drown. If she collects too small amount
of diamond for her boss, she will have a finger amputated.

John should not complain and be happy to not live in such terrible conditions.

\--

I believe Talia was right to complain. However bringing her employer into the
complaint, in a very targeting and "shaming" manner, was not a smart move
(current career-wise). She works in conditions thousands of people are
familiar with across the world. Her message resonates. But the only reason it
is heard, is because she went about it the way she did.

If she had posted an anonymous, employer-anonymous article with the same
content.. This would not be news. There may be a discussion between 5-10
people on the internet, but no major news site would publish on it.

Was she right in doing what she did? It depends on your perspective. I believe
it is completely fair, she didn't fabricate her statements - simply saying
(though somewhat emotive) facts. The company she works for on the other hand
wouldn't see it that way.

~~~
Turing_Machine
You're setting up straw men. I was comparing two unskilled, entry-level jobs
in the United States, so African toddlers don't really enter into it.

If Talia had more sense and less entitlement, she would have found some
roommates or (failing that) not taken a job that didn't pay enough to support
her. She wasn't forced to move to the Bay Area at gunpoint, dude.

I _do_ have sympathy for those people who've been living in the Bay Area for a
long time, and have had a heavy squeeze put on them by the rising prices. That
doesn't apply to Talia, though.

~~~
Mandatum
> If Talia had more sense and less entitlement, she would have found some
> roommates or (failing that) not taken a job that didn't pay enough to
> support her. She wasn't forced to move to the Bay Area at gunpoint, dude.

I agree with you here, but I still don't think comparing a 14-hour-day fish-
cannery job in Alaska (which if it's anything like it is here, is also
seasonal and catered for "travellers") to a cushy CS job in the Bay Area is
remotely "similar".

------
Hnrobert42
No. Wait. Listen. My life is the hardest.

