

What would do you need to see before joining an early stage startup? - Elite

This question is aimed at talented programmers, who have successfully built a project whether it be for work, or another startup.<p>What would you need to see from someone with a web app company proposal to feel comfortable joining as CTO/Lead engineer?  Let's assume that you did not yet know the person.<p>I'm asking b/c I have several plans that I am in the final process of developing but would like feedback on how to get real talent to join as co-founder.  I know I can get your run of the mill coder easily, but what do I need to come to the table with to a top 10%er.
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maineldc
I was a technical cofounder and I have joined several startups as either the
first employee or the first technical employee. This has evolved over the
years, but the big thing that I look at is the person or team that I am going
to join. It's cliche but true. That manifests itself in two ways:

1\. "Smart People That I Like Having a Beer With" is a must have. There is so
much that happens in a startup that its more like a family than a job. And in
this case, picking your family is wisely is the path to happiness AND success.
2\. Deep experience in their field and / or a clear way to generate early
revenue (through network, former company, etc.). The hardest part of starting
a company is early traction and if I can't bring it then I want it in the
people I work with.

Notice that none of this is really about the idea because if you have someone
with deep experience or early sales, then the idea will evolve over time as it
finds the right Customer Need.

Good luck!

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Elite
Great advice! I'm currently making plans to exit a mild-moderate profitable
company and I can attest to the fact that a startup is like family! We share
the struggles, triumphs and everything in between.

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nostrademons
#1 thing I look for is traction: people that obviously want to buy what you
have to sell, as measured by them _actually_ buying what you have to sell. If
they have that, then I look at the size and interestingness of the market (I
don't really care if you have traction as a consulting business, but if you
have traction in an exciting consumer market, my e-mail address is in my
profile). Then I'd meet the founders and other employees to see if its a good
fit for me personally.

If you don't have traction, it's a much harder sell. In that case, the first
thing I look for is the team. Are you someone I could hit it off with over
drinks? Do you have deep expertise in your area of your startup? Are you
driven by data or by dreams? Do you have a plan for how you're going to attack
your market, or is it just "There must be riches out there _somewhere_ "?

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jeb
I would expect reasonable hours, some guarantee that the startup would be
around for a year, a bigger potential pay-off than a big company, and that the
other guy was a reasonable person with good ideas that was not a micro-
manager.

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jallmann
If you expect reasonable hours, then an early-stage startup is probably not
for you.

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dasil003
More than 40 is reasonable on an ongoing basis at a startup, but more than 60?
more than 80? I don't think it's smart to expect creative people to work more
than 50 hours a week on an ongoing basis. If they've got the requisite
commitment and excitement then the other 62 waking hours will be well-spent
subconscious time.

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mgkimsal
Ability to focus.

Courage to try new things.

Willingness to accept some of those 'new things' aren't working as planned and
change course or drop them.

Ability to examine situations logically, but also to get passionate about the
offering.

Basic agreement that revenue and profit are king, and decisions should be made
based on the numbers.

Clear vision for how money will be made.

Ability to articulate customer base.

Demonstrated ability to sell, or to find people who can.

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drew__
Sure, and add to that: Actual proof that the people already involved are doing
something now beyond navel-gazing. Vision and courage and whatever the tin man
was looking for are wonderful, but what matters more is _doing_. I'm not Toto.
This isn't Kansas. If you want my work then show me your work.

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mgkimsal
Agreed. 'courage' and 'vision' aren't all that are needed. However, I've
talked to enough people over the years to realize when even _those_ are
missing. Absent those, you'll never even get close to the doing. Sometimes the
'doing' part hasn't happened enough simply because people are overwhelmed with
too many things to do and not enough time. If that's really _all_ that's
missing, but the other parts are in place, I'm more inclined to get involved
(although still, I rarely do).

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staunch
1) Compelling idea 2) Significant ownership stake (ideally 50%) 3) Funding to
pay salaries for 1-2 years 4) Co-founder that's competent, hard working, and
easy to work with.

If you have those four things you're in the top tier of awesome opportunities.
Any entrepreneurial-minded great hacker is going to be interested.

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Elite
With a 40-50% equity stake, what's a reasonable salary range for an
experienced programmer? What's the minimum?

I would raise initial salary from my own pocket for the lead CTO, so I'm
curious if I'd have enough. $90k+ is not feasible.

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nostrademons
If I were getting a 50% equity stake, I wouldn't expect a salary. That's
basically a cofounder role, and the risk/reward work out appropriately. I'd
expect to live off my own savings - but I'd also expect significant input into
the business, including the ability to change its direction if the original
idea really wasn't working. Basically, if you give up 50% of the company,
you're in this together, better act like it.

I might expect a relatively small (cover living expenses) salary if I were
taking on, say, a 20-30% equity stake as a cofounder in a pre-traction
startup. This is sort of a no-man's-land of risk/reward tradeoff, though.
There's an awkward dynamic when you're paying someone else's living expenses
and yet their salary is still well below market-rate. It's worked for a couple
startups (Hotmail was one, Intuit may've been another, though the equity
stakes for Intuit all got renegotiated when they almost went bankrupt), but
you don't see it often.

Once you're down in single-digit equity stakes, it's expected that you'll pony
up market-rate salaries. That's what fundraising is for. :-) The equity stake
for early employees is there to compensate (and incentivize) them for the
possibility that their salary may not be their tomorrow, not for the lack of a
salary.

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akkartik
Vesting schedules add further complexity to this analysis.

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nostrademons
True, although if I were coming on-board as a cofounder, I'd expect to be
there for the long haul, so they don't affect me all that much. I'd prefer to
see both partners have pretty standard vesting, probably 4-year.

I do take vesting into account if I'm joining as an early employee and I
expect the company to be bought out soon. I believe that acquirers can do
whatever they want with an employee's unvested options, and this is a pretty
easy way to get screwed.

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wfjackson3
If you just have a proposal, I think it is going to be tough to attract the
right talent. I am not necessarily a hacker (or maybe I am, who freaking
knows), but I am taking that role on so I can make the first versions of my
product. If I can show some traction, I know I won't be wasting anyone's time
with my business. Furthermore, the first version doesn't have to be pretty, it
just has to be good enough to get by.

