
Zipcall.io – Free browser-based video calling - jonifico
https://github.com/ianramzy/decentralized-video-chat
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tommoor
Hey, If it's using WebRTC built into the browser like every other web-based
video calling app – how is it "unmatched" exactly?

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fulafel
Many/most WebRTC apps don't do p2p, but rely on a bunch of stuff happening in
server side. There are also a lot of ways to set up webrtc in the browser
affecting quality.

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carlosdp
Where the citation on that? From what I’ve seen, P2P is more common than SFUs,
if for no other reason than they are way simpler to implement architecturally
for small amount of participants.

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fulafel
No citation but IME Zoom and Teams do this.

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SahAssar
On the site it says "Breakthrough peer to peer WebRTC technology" and the
title claims "no latency".

Could you elaborate what makes this different from normal P2P WebRTC without a
SFU? Do you feel that the claim of "no latency" is even possible/reasonable
regardless of the tech involved?

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johannsg
I do not enjoy being blunt, but the author seem to have borrowed a page from a
“that” conferencing company’s marketing playbook by making very questionable
claims.

It’s a nice project, but:

> Zipcall is built radically different. We left behind slow bulky servers,
> opting for decentralized peer to peer calling. We engineered a platform with
> maximum video quality and low latency.

Translation: it uses WebRTC or we didn’t invent anything — it uses technology
built into your browser.

> State of the art VP9 video compression combined with our scaling
> optimization makes your calls crystal clear.

Same as above (assuming you’re browser supports VP9).

> Breakthrough peer to peer WebRTC technology means your video goes directly
> to the other person without a server. No middleman. No extra stops.

Same as above.

> End to end state of the art encryption means your calls are exactly that.
> Your calls.

How exactly?

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GPUboy
Hey how is this better than the Janus webrtc server? It's been developed for a
decade, and could flip a page like this in an hour or so. I'm genuinely
curious how you could surpass it in stealth, like minus the marketing fluff.

[https://janus.conf.meetecho.com/videoroomtest.html](https://janus.conf.meetecho.com/videoroomtest.html)

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dang
We changed the title from "Show HN: Zipcall.io – Peer to peer browser video
calling with no latency". Show HN is for sharing something that you've
personally created (please see the rules:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html)).
And "no latency" sounds more baity than reasonable.

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polishdude20
So is p2p really bad when dealing with lots of users? Because now instead of
you sending your video to a central server, you are now having to send your
video to every single person while still receiving the video of everyone. So
your upload usage must go through the roof.

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tommoor
Yes, absolutely. Not only bandwidth but CPU usage as you must encrypt and
decrypt the video for every participant separately

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jMyles
Hopefully proxy re-encryption will solve this soon.

(disclaimer: this is what I work on)

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telesilla
Sounds interesting! Do you have a link for this in regards to research done on
p2p streaming?

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jMyles
You know, strangely, we've never published anything about (nor done any
research specifically on) the prospects for private p2p streaming, even though
it's something we discuss frequently on our discord.

Once we get this thing launched, we'll right that wrong.

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cachestash
To achieve "no latency", you have to remain completely still.

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beering
I am excited for more open-source video-calling tools, but I am also confused
by how this "provides video quality and latency simply not available with
traditional technology."

A quick glance at the readme suggests that this negotiates peer-to-peer
connections using Twilio. But it's not just that it's p2p, right? Since there
are a ton of p2p video-calling tools out there, most memorably to me the
original Skype before Microsoft bought it.

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dvasdekis
I tried this with friends, and from my phone to their laptop (and another's
desktop), it didn't work.

In comparison, Jitsi sort-of worked on the same devices (but screen share was
limited to 5 FPS).

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bschwindHN
Tried it out with a friend, both of us living close by, on ethernet, both on
the same gigabit fiber ISP.

It was the same bad WebRTC quality, perhaps even worse as my video preview was
really laggy.

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WhiteOwlLion
Does this work smartphones or tablets via specific browsers?

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BrandoElFollito
There are many comments with P2P and serverless together. How can this work
when the users are not on the same network?

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SahAssar
WebRTC uses UDP holepunching via STUN, it's built into almost all browsers and
there are free STUN servers online. If you have some types of more tricky
networks (usually symmetric NAT or more tricky firewalls) you need TURN which
basically proxies the encrypted stream over TCP via the TURN server, but most
home and smaller networks can do holepunching.

You still need signaling of the SDP offer, but that can be done via
email/sms/whatever if you really don't want to have a server at all.

This service is just run-of-the-mill WebRTC, nothing special about it though.

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telesilla
Nice, only missing one essential feature (unless I can't find it): the ability
to set the device I/O.

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based2
[https://jitsi.org/](https://jitsi.org/) diff?

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Jemm
I like how Jitsi mirrors my Webcam image. Much more intuitive

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Jemm
I don’t like how jitsi ignores my volume settings in iOS

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villgax
Every tom, dick & harry now with WebRTC & TURN servers is here.

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futhey
Nice work, some really nice touches in the UX. Keep working on it!

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BrowserMeeting
Great marketing page. Gotta love the fluff!

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busymom0
There's another post on Show HN right now with this same link.

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freedomnotfree
I tried it out with my friend and not gonna lie the video quality was really
good. And screen sharing is a nice feature. +1 for open source

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ed
You created an account just to say that?

