
Facebook Comments Epitomizes Everything I Hate About Facebook - diego
http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/03/facebook-comments-epitomizes-everything-i-hate-about-facebook/
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davidconnell
Check out the first cluster of comments: <http://i.imgur.com/phz9X.png>

The third and fourth comment are directed at the second comment, but are
displayed in reply to the first comment since there's only one level of
replies. Confusing.

Also, instead of linking to the comment to show this, I had to take a
screenshot.

~~~
mkjones
Yeah, I find it pretty annoying that you can't deep link a comment as well,
but I'm not sure how to make it better.

What do you think would be a good way to add that functionality, given that
the comment plugin is running in an iframe on a different domain (so e.g.
putting a hash in the top url won't be readable by the iframe)?

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ig1
I think Jon to some extent fails to realize that having options (i.e. sorting
by date) comes at the price of complexity.

A significant amount of modern software has gone the opposite way seeking to
remove options to simplify products for users.

Facebook grew up competing against MySpace, a site which gave it's users more
options and configurability than anyone could want. Facebook realized that
users don't want to be able to tweak everything, they want things to be
standardized and just work.

It's philosophically the Facebook way.

~~~
diego
While that may be true for _Facebook_ users, it's not true for users of
specific sites that use their comment system. Part of my thinking when coming
up with the idea for IndexTank is that sites need to control their UX (search
in our case). The vast majority cannot invest in building backend technology,
so they use what's readily available and easy.

Facebook comments are easy, but they are not customizable. I haven't tried
Disqus, but if I were them I'd focus on ease of use and control (not by the
end user, but by the site).

~~~
ciopte7
Thanks for making Index Tank, I am just starting to implement it into my ruby
application and have found it to be easier than any other search option I have
tried.

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mattdeboard
With just a few strategic word replacements, one could turn this into a pretty
convincing rant about Wal-Mart.

There's nothing cool or innovative or interesting or high quality. But dammit,
they're everywhere, can do a lot of things good enough to satisfy Joe
Consumer, and have just kind of slowly sunk quietly into the background of
their culture. They're ubiquitous, and that ubiquity allows them to cut
corners and keep "costs" low because they operate at a scale no one else can
really touch.

Facebook is the Internet's Wal-Mart.

~~~
NickDouglas
That reminds me of this post on how Craigslist's business is being eaten away,
and why it's taking so long (because of the critical mass needed to compete
against its network-effect benefit): [http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-another-
product-disrupted-and...](http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-another-product-
disrupted-and-replaced-Craigslist)

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jacques_chester
The idea was to cut back on trolls by using "real names", but a) it's still
easy to create troll accounts on Facebook and b) it rules out comments from
pseudonymous visitors.

In terms of dealing with trolls, active moderation is the most reliable method
I've seen used in practice. I know it doesn't scale well, which is why people
turn to voting schemes instead.

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neilc
_reflect on the fact that what you are looking at is the very best product
that a $75 billion software company, one famous for allegedly only hiring
A-list talent, was able to build._

Except that it isn't the "very best product ... FB was able to build." It is
just something _useful_ that a team at FB built -- something that provides
some value for websites and users, and that will continue to be evolved and
improved in the future.

FB Comments may or may not be an amazing product, but obviously it is good
enough for TC, so that says something.

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Vmabuza
One thing i hate the most about it especially on techcruch is that a person
using Operamini cant view any post on techcrunch because (i think) the FB
plugin screws up with Operamini.One cannot see the comments and also the page
just goes blue. I hope they fix this

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magicalist
The reply from the Facebook employee was interesting. "While I think you have
some interesting points about missing features, overall this post is sullied
by its sulky, immature tone. [...]"

On the one hand, I wish all companies let their employees be human and respond
as such. On the other hand, it feels like _if_ you're going to engage, you
should ignore the insults and address any valid points. Here it just looks
like two parties trading jabs while dancing around any real issues.

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X-Istence
I'd love to comment on the article itself that the Facebook comments system is
a barrier to entry, but then I'd have to enable the Facebook platform and risk
losing my SSL on my account every time I log in.

~~~
mkjones
What do you mean "risk losing your SSL?" Do you mean the "turn off SSL so I
can access this canvas application?" thingy? As long as you don't click that,
you shouldn't have to worry - if you've turned on HTTPS browsing, it only
sends your auth cookies over HTTPS, so you're not vulnerable to downgrading
attacks.

If that is what you mean, how do you think it could be less scary? The idea is
to strike a balance between security and usability, and if we'd love to do a
better job of that where possible! (I work on security at facebook, though not
the HTTPS implementation directly.)

~~~
X-Istence
In Facebook under account settings there is an option for persistent SSL. If
you turn on the Facebook platform and use any part of it, on any site (such as
clicking a like button, or using Facebook comments, or using an "Facebook app"
like Farmville (just an example)) it disables the SSL part of your account,
and doesn't re-enable it when it can, instead your account is once again non-
SSL enabled.

Now, the last time I tested this was when Facebook comments came out on a test
account I have, if it no longer disables SSL using Facebook comments that
would certainly be a step up.

Even then I don't want everything tied to my Facebook account, and it is not
exactly easy to switch which Facebook account is used on which website.

~~~
mkjones
Interesting - what do you mean by "your account is non-SSL enabled?" I've got
persistent HTTPS turned on (and have not opted out of platform), and clicking
a like button or commenting on a comment plugin does not add non-secure
authentication cookies (i.e. I can still only use the site over HTTPS).
Perhaps you had HTTPS turned off on your test account?

As far as not wanting to comment with your FB account, you can sign in with
Yahoo...?

~~~
X-Istence
When the SSL option first came out I tested this, and noticed that using the
like button would turn SSL off in my settings, since then I have just used
adblock to block all of the like buttons.

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michaelpinto
I always find it funny when a paid Huffington Post staffer is upset about the
quality of something that's free! You'd also think that Techcrunch would work
with an up and coming company working in the space — well I guess the old
Techcrunch would have done that...

~~~
lwhi
It's nowhere near free. Money might not change hands, but we pay handsomely
with attention.

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dools
If you don't think there are any suitable comment engines on the market, why
not put your money where your mouth is and pay my company to build one for
you.

I think a reasonable budget/timeframe would be $350,000 over 18 months.

I look forward to hearing from you.

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fleitz
Facebook Comments removes honesty and replaces it with PC Cheerleading. Sounds
perfect for the modern TC as it moves from startup coverage to covering
companies founded before computers had mice. Most real insights are unpopular,
if they were popular it'd be common knowledge.

This will stop trolls for a few minutes, you can buy a Facebook account with
100 friends for a buck or two if you really want to troll. On the long term
this is likely to succeed to the same degree that Kuro5hin charging $5 for an
account had.

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robryan
I think the interesting question is, if this comment system was standalone, so
it didn't have any network or real name effects behind it, would anyone use
it?

I'd prefer to use something attached to the back end and possibly use Facebook
connect for the real name aspect, or even include the indication back into the
feed on Facebook, although not everyone wants that.

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stevederico
Sounds like the single level replies is a big problem for some users. If the
replies are single threaded, why is there a reply button on each reply instead
of just at the bottom?

~~~
tesseract
Twitter has what I guess you could call a zero level reply system - so why is
there a reply button on each tweet?

~~~
bmelton
I don't know about the Facebook comments system because I avoid it wherever
possible, but at least with the Twitter reply button, it prepends the ever-
popular @OP.

In short, a Twitter conversation can be replayed, or stitched together after
the fact. From what I'm seeing with this thread, it doesn't appear that is
possible with the Facebook comments (though I know that they DO have the '@'
reference, sort of.)

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Ainab
I am wondering how much money that techcrunch gets from the facebook in oder
to keep their comment system. Disqus is much better system than facebook
comments.

~~~
ig1
As noted in the article the level of quality of comments is much higher with
Facebook comments, plus with the comments showing up on people's Facebook
stream it gives Techcrunch a huge amount of free publicity.

So I doubt they need money to convince them to use Facebook over Disqus.

~~~
xbryanx
This (comment activity shows up in Facebook stream) is precisely why I won't
be commenting on Techcrunch articles any time soon. I have no interest in
advertising to my aunt and high school ex-girlfriends that I have a minute
opinion about some random bit of software technology. I'm not looking for
anonymity to troll, I just want to control my various internet personas. More
for the sake of my "real friends" than anything else.

~~~
ig1
When you make a comment there's a tickbox which you can untick so it doesn't
go to your stream.

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brackin
It brings a lot of traffic to my startup when a domain is listed as my company
on Facebook also it allows me to read comments more clearly, there's no trash
but there's a lot more pressure.

I posted a comment on the blackberry playbook review and someone that worked
for RIM replied with a load of marketing spin I wasn't bothered to reply too.
You also get notifications which makes me reply more often also that needs a
lot of tweaking.

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absolut_todd
My biggest problem with facebook comments is that facebook is blocked at the
corporate proxy so i can't see them.

Maybe thats a good thing....

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narrator
I actually have noscript blocking facebook.com and fbcdn.com and facebook
cookies. I really don't feel like I've missed anything. The times I've read
facebook comments, it felt like they were on the level of people giving "I
propose a toast to..." speeches at dinner parties.

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Jd
Money quote : "Facebook Comments is basically Facebook writ small: while it’s
maddeningly mediocre lowest-common-denominator crap, it’s not quite bad enough
not to use."

Yep.

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lwhi
TL;DR; Hates facebook comments, but is going to keep them because mediocrity
is a small price to pay for being able to track and identify users.

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nvictor
the post got 136 facebook likes so far...

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chopsueyar
Hey TechCrunch, demand your money back.

