
Ask HN: Why actual rockstar programmers do not say anything? - tuyguntn
Programming and computers are huuuuuuuge area, if we look at from bottom to the top,<p>- hardware level - they sit and work, they do not call themselves rockstars<p>- low level, fpga - they sit and work, no rockstars<p>- os level - sit and work, no rockstars<p>- algorithm developers - sit and work, no rockstars<p>- application&#x2F;db developers - sit and work, no rockstars<p>- web devs, js - THEY ARE ROCKSTARS,<p>if we look at above areas, probably easiest one maybe web devs, who knows maybe they have smaller salary than other areas too, but when it comes to PR, they are always rockstars, they are cool, why the heck this is always the case, who works hard don&#x27;t get attention, attention will be given who uses that product or sales.
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Albright
As a full-stack-but-primarily-back-end web developer, I somewhat resent the
OP's implication that web developers are lesser than other developers. Why are
we distinct from "algorithm developers" and "application/db developers" when
what we develop are applications that interact with databases and often
require fairly sophisticated algorithms? Can't we just agree that different
types of developers work with different technologies and skillsets and one
isn't inherently better or worse than another based solely on which
technologies they work with?

All that aside… the "rockstar" attitude rankles, though really, it's something
you'll mostly see in job listings and such than from web developers
themselves. I can't recall meeting any developers in this industry who would
refer to themselves as a rockstar with a straight face, but I've met a couple
bosses who said things like "we only hire rockstars" and such. So to the
extent that a skilled web developer seriously says they're a rockstar, they
probably only do so to angle for a job, I'd imagine.

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bonobo3000
Call me an a __hole, but I really think that web dev does not require nearly
as much deep knowledge of computers as an engineer working on lower levels of
the stack. Each web app usually solves the same tired problems again:
interface with a db, present data, cache stuff, handle user accounts etc..
There is some meaty stuff - perhaps caching and serious performance
optimization, but most of a web app is either front-end CSS stuff, or
interfacing with a DB to fetch data.

Yes, there is definitely work to be done in making a web-app, and i don't
think its easy at all to get a website to be really fast or get the styling
right across 100s of devices, but its not always technically challenging work
IMO. I am NOT saying that web devs are worse, but yes, I am saying that the
job generally requires less deep technical knowledge, and perhaps more of
other skills i know nothing about :p This is the rationale for why I choose
not to go into webdev, because i love solving meaty problems. I would love to
hear your perspective and be proven wrong though.

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matthewmacleod
This entire comment is just nonsense. Web development is equivalent to any
other level of the computing stack. That is, there are good developers working
on solving complex problems, and bad developers churning out mediocre software
that doesn't really do anything "meaty".

I see absolutely no evidence that web development is any less technically
challenging than any other field – the fact that there are loads of developers
churning out cookie-cutter CRUD apps doesn't mean that's the whole field.

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matthewmacleod
Absolute nonsense.

\- Developing for the web is not 'probably easiest one' – it's equivalent in
complexity to any other part of the software stack. The fact that there are
lots of generic CRUD apps that are being developed does nothing to change that
– the majority of applications are boring LOB apps, the majority of hardware
drivers are barely functional repackaging of reference implementations, and so
on.

\- There aren't really any 'rockstars' in development. I'm sure there are some
knobs out there who call themselves that; I've never met or heard from one,
despite a decade in the web development industry.

You've clearly got a stick up your arse about something; I suggest you'd be
better served spending your time learning more about how the industry actually
works, and less time writing this sort of dreck.

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nostrademons
Competition. Because all startups need a frontend to get users, there are many
independent firms hiring in that market, and because demand is high, there are
many developers as well. Because the market is both liquid and very
competitive, devs need to SCREAM VERY LOUDLY to be heard (minus a few folks
who get snapped up early by highly desirable employers like Google, Facebook,
AirBnB, or Uber and then quietly sit and work, often moving more toward
backend as their careers progress).

There are relatively few hardware-level companies and hardware-level software
engineers. There are relatively few FPGA companies and FPGA engineers. There
are relatively few OSes, and relatively few OS-level software engineers.
Within these fields, everyone knows who the good developers are based on their
work.

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techdragon
It's an accessibility effect.

Because "front end web development" is the most easily started of the items
you list, anyone with a browser even most mobile phone browsers are sufficient
these days, there is a larger pool of "interested" people who recognise the
topic. Since the larger pool is more diverse it starts to exhibit behaviour we
consider more typical of "the general population" instead of "us programmers".

The modern trend of ninja and rockstar developers is nothing more than normal
group psychology. Your options are "run away into a more specialist niche"
where the population is more to your liking, "ignore it" like reality tv, or
"go native" and learn how this new aspect of technical culture can be useful
to you.

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insoluble
Perhaps you simply hear more about Web devs because most Web gigs are
relatively small - compared with many of the lower-level jobs. As a result,
Web folks are constantly advertising themselves to find the next gig. Also
based on this small-job phenomenon, these people may have better skills at
marketing themselves.

The other thought that comes to mind is that the results of Web skills are
usually apparent in a very short time after the person begins working. The
user-interface is the "face" of a long path of other systems that make the
whole thing possible. Hence, those persons closest to the UI get associated
with the results of all the systems working in tandem. It's as if they
themselves made it all happen.

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tyh
I would say there are people in all of these categories with egos. Quality
work should speak for itself really.

Maybe we get the impression that people who work with web facing technologies
are the loudest because they will have very popular repos on GitHub. Remember
though, there are plenty of people who have solved equally complex problems
who cannot share their work for various reasons.

Those people probably have a right to say they are a rock star, but not a lot
of people will ever know outside their job / company.

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adenot
What makes a rockstar? Their audience.

There are more web devs or web devs wannabes in the world ready to consume
content from more experienced ones, making them "rockstars" as you call.

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tpiha
This is true, but I'm not sure it's only limited to IT or programming, I'd say
it's present in more or less any human activity.

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xmly
You mean bill gates is not a rockstar?

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nickthemagicman
All the rest are NINJAS!!!!!

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collyw
I get put of applying for jobs when they request a "Ninja". Sounds like a
bollocks startup full of kiddies who think they know way more than they do.

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huydotnet
algorithm developer?

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tpiha
I'm guessing this is OP's title for software architects.

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tuyguntn
Very close to this definition, but probably in the middle, think about
Map/Reduce, think about parallel computing models, think about indexing,
searching and many other things which are related to architecting, designing
and optimizing how things work

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J_Darnley
Perhaps: web devs are so ashamed of their privacy-violating, resource-hogging
websites that they need something about themselves to feel proud of so they
give themselves a dramatic job title and say "I'm good".

