
Ask HN: What cities have the best salary / cost of living ratio? - J-dawg
Globally speaking, what are the best places to live that have tech jobs and a good quality of life, without being too expensive?<p>I&#x27;m talking about places to both live and work, rather than the &quot;digital nomad&quot; places that are popular with remote workers.
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remyp
Chicago. Affordable rent[1], dense, car optional, highly walkable, good
transit, best biking city in the country[2], phenomenal restaurants and beer.
I've met several visiting New Yorkers that refer to Chicago as a "smaller,
cleaner New York." I've been here 8 years and have never had trouble finding a
new programming job when I wanted one.

People will decry the violence (of which the vast majority is confined to the
disadvantaged parts of the city[3]) and the weather (which you get used to and
should stop being a wimp about), but I find the salary / cost of living ratio
far outweighs the disadvantages.

[1] [https://www.thrillist.com/lifestyle/chicago/the-l-rent-
map-w...](https://www.thrillist.com/lifestyle/chicago/the-l-rent-map-where-
you-can-t-afford-to-live-in-chicago-by-stop)

[2] [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-
bicycli...](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bicycling-
magazine-rating-20160917-story.html)

[3]
[http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides](http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides)

~~~
hellofunk
Chicago culture is nothing like New York, however, so the comparison is a bit
moot. Chicago is very much a Midwestern city with a Midwestern culture. And in
my years living in Chicago, I didn't know a single person who didn't own a
car, and most of them spent lots of time driving.

~~~
ultra12
As an anecdotal retort, I live in Chicago, not the suburbs, and known of 1
person who owns a car that I work with.

Unless you need to get out of the city, public transportation is very very
good.

~~~
hellofunk
I think part of the issue is that Chicago's downtown and inner city are small
enough that you typically do want to get out of town. Compared to cities like
New York where people can easily go months, even years or decades, without
ever thinking about leaving the city proper. That tends to be why so many
people (vast majority) in Chicago own cars. And I've heard no end to the rants
about trying to park in that town.

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hood_syntax
The best area I'm familiar with is Research Triangle Park (RTP). Above average
salaries and relatively low cost of living. There's a growing food scene,
people are active and it's at the beginning of a cultural renewal imo. Of
course, being in NC comes with some problems due to the legacy of racism that
exists in some pockets of society (pretty easy to avoid, you'll know it when
you see it), but I loved growing up there.

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larrykubin
If you are in tech, Seattle has high salaries and no state income tax. Housing
costs are rising, but I had a nice 1BR in Capitol Hill for ~ 1700 before
buying a 3 BR townhouse in West Seattle with the same monthly cost for
mortgage and taxes combined. Walk scores > 90 in both neighborhoods I've lived
in and have never had a car. The equivalent housing would cost at least double
in the Bay Area. Unfortunately, the winter in Seattle is a downer and it's a
bit weird socially.

~~~
alexbanks
Is 1700 for a 1BR considered "Low COL" ?

~~~
zumu
Capitol Hill is the absolute trendiest part of town. A lot of people live on
the north or west sides of town. Some friends of mine split a house for $500 a
piece about a single 30-45 minute bus ride from their office downtown.

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debacle
Buffalo is really up and coming. We're starving for devs here and salaries are
quickly going up. The cost of living is crazy low. The real estate market has
been depressed for years - my house actually appreciated during the real
estate crash. Commutes are short and your options are really varied as far as
what kind of community you want to live in.

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SpendBig
Depends on your goals and definition of good quality of life. I think there is
no best place for a avarage developer. Every life is so unique, skills are so
leveled per de developer and matching economics and jobs on these are very
specific.

As a dutch man, i can tell you just my experience as a software developer that
here in the big cities are enough places to get jobs. Daily mails from
recruiters sesrching for new candidates to be places at all sorts of
companies. Living here matched about the avarage income to live in a small
home with wife and kid.

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cylinder
Really depends on the person. There are people who think somewhere in Ohio is
awesome because of the cheap houses and low COL, and there are others who
would be suicidal living there.

You'll have to figure out what you want out of a place besides just low COL.
You can't just mitigate your disdain for a place by looking at your savings
account. That's one positive about my time in NYC, the city really forces you
to figure out what you want in a place to live.

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fitzwatermellow
Anyone else watching LeBron James' _Cleveland Hustles_ on CNBC? It's pretty
great. The lesson: energy and commitment trump geography and privilege every
time. And $125K goes a long way in Ohio ;)

[http://www.cnbc.com/cleveland-hustles/](http://www.cnbc.com/cleveland-
hustles/)

Re-formatting mid-size post-industrial cities into thriving locally-focused
entrepreneurial hubs provides an alternative to the NYC, LA, DC, SF model.
Instead of seeking to re-locate, why not attempt to foster what you value in
your own backyard first ;)

Small Tech Hubs: Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Nashville, and New Orleans want your
startup

[http://venturebeat.com/2016/06/26/small-tech-hubs-buffalo-
pi...](http://venturebeat.com/2016/06/26/small-tech-hubs-buffalo-pittsburgh-
nashville-and-new-orleans-want-your-startup/)

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kspaans
NPR had an excellent blog post about this last year:
[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/20/313131559/how-f...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/20/313131559/how-
far-your-paycheck-goes-in-356-u-s-cities)

Doesn't show tech salaries, but instead avg income adjusted for cost of living
in that city. It will help you gauge which cities are more expensive.

~~~
zumu
DC always looks good in these because they never take into account all the
cheap rents are in neighborhoods your average young professional is not going
to wanna live in. I don't care how progressive you are--you're not moving to
Anacostia.

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automaticearth
Portland, Oregon. Dense, VERY walkable/bikeable, substantial amount of tech
jobs, and more affordable than other major US metros with comparable
amenities.

~~~
tmaly
I did a stint out there at Intel in 99. It was a really cool city. I second
your suggestion.

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uola
I've spent some time thinking about this and while it's hard to reach a
conclusive answer as a generic one I would say a second tier city in western
Europe. You still get a fairly functional state, internationalism and good
quality of life without having to pay first tier city prices for housing and
consumables. Which city is much harder to answer of course, suggestions are
welcome.

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punk-coder
I've lived in Atlanta since 1997 and I always found the pay to be great, while
the cost of living isn't all that bad.

I'm an application architect pulling in a little over $160k. I recently bought
a house over in Decatur with my girlfriend. A nice 1920 craftsman, 2,400 sq
ft, for $600k. Before that I rented a loft in an old converted warehouse that
was a little over 2,500 sq ft, for $1,300 a month.

There is a lot of tech work here in Atlanta, and while we don't have the
greatest public transportation compared to other cities, I haven't owned a car
in 3 years. I take the train to work and use ZipCar/Uber when I really need a
car.

If you live inside the perimeter there are great neighborhoods, great
restaurants, and plenty of things to do.

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sotojuan
I live in Sunset Park, Brooklyn next to the D train (20-30 mins to Manhattan)
and I've made $80-95k and live quite comfortably, so if I make it over six
figures I'll be more than fine. It's fairly cheap in terms of rent and
groceries and I'm near all the fun stuff in Manhattan and other parts of
Brooklyn. It's not the prettiest part of New York, though, but I like it here.

I don't know what the salary/cost ratio is, but I find it a non-issue. That
said, I am 22 and have no children. I agree with another commenter here to
said it depends on your lifestyle and hobbies.

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cjbprime
US tech salaries still seem to be disproportionately higher than elsewhere, so
perhaps places like Seattle, Austin, D.C., Raleigh NC, St. Louis.

~~~
chmielewski
DC has a high cost of living. Way high.

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playing_colours
Berlin, Germany. It's a good place for software engineers, particularly with
some experience. The rent is still pretty good although growing. The salaries
for software engineers vary, and it's usually better to go with more
established companies rather than with yet another startup. The city has its
multicultural vibe and one can enjoy night life, culture, etc.

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countryqt30
Clearly Zurich, this can be back-checked with several studies. Of all
countries, it's Switzerland that has the best ratio. Within CH, it's ZH.

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Nicholas_C
I work in finance but Dallas is pretty great. The job market is incredible as
well.

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a_lifters_life
Philadelphia is pretty good.

