
French intelligence officer caught selling confidential data on the dark web - reacweb
https://www.zdnet.com/article/french-police-officer-caught-selling-confidential-police-data-on-the-dark-web
======
larkeith
This serves as a good example of why privacy should be protected. Even under
the assumption the police use data collected only for legitimate purposes, it
only takes one corrupt officer for anyone to have access for less savory ends;
While these are of course contrived cases, consider the stalker who purchases
access to a facial recognition database, a robber who uses the mentioned phone
tracking system to determine when a house is empty, or an identity thief who
buys recordings from unnecessary phone taps.

The most reliable way to prevent any of this is to avoid infringement of
privacy and surveillance overreach.

~~~
Shivetya
All government records should have a public available audit of all access
activities. The user or group making the request should always be revealed
except by court order and those should still be acknowledge or determinable by
some means. The type of data revealed can be classified into groups indicating
how detailed it is, from simple identification confirmation to tax and
criminal records.

the key is public access to the the logs of access. next step would be giving
the public the ability to challenge the data within reasonable limits

~~~
geofft
That doesn't help much unless there's a meaningful punishment for officers who
abuse this access. Since in the US we are happy to re-hire police officers who
have been publicly known to kill people without actual cause (e.g.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-fatally-
sho...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-fatally-shot-tamir-
rice-hired-bellaire-ohio-police-n917391) ) I have trouble believing that a
record of police officers who merely abuse surveillance data will do much.

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cm2187
As a note, the DGSI is the result of the merger of the DST (counter espionage)
and RG (domestic intelligence). The RG was a notoriously shaddy and scandals
ridden operation, known for building files on French public figures (own file
was typically the first document a newly promoted minister for interior
requested to read) and was often compared to a political police. I wouldn't be
surprised to learn that the officier in question came from the RG.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
Is an intelligence agency having files on public figures considered "shady"?
I'd have thought it was an important part of their job. Provided any juicy
information isn't misused for political ends, of course.

~~~
Algent
One of RG major role was allowing local informations to go upstream so that
politics knew what was going on outside of their ivory tower. Since they were
operating using local branches it was a sure way to get first hand
informations.

Of course to do their jobs they had to keep files on anyone or anything
relevant. Could this be potentially misused ? Definitely. But it had a pretty
good reason of existing.

After they got merged they lost most of their local branch and got retasked.
Meaning the government have to rely more on second hand data and can more
easily fall prey to falsified informations. The truth is a little more
complicated than that but it was indeed a really useful tool.

~~~
GlobalFrog
Completely true. And moreover, it is now acknowledged that the failure to stop
the terrorist attacks in the recent years comes for a part from the RG having
been nearly disbanded. They were far from being an agency which only spied on
public figures, they were in fact a very important tool for gathering
information at a local level, which was badly missed to have first hand intel
on extremists. Their bad reputation came mostly from the 60s-70s when they
were targeting a lot the labor unions who had connections with the Soviet
Union.

------
barrkel
Government is made out of people. Well-meaning voters impute moral motives to
government actions and new laws, but institutions are only as moral as their
checks and balances keep them in line. Morality alone doesn't cut it.

You need to punish people who don't punish people who don't follow the rules.
That's a reflexive rule and is the minimum requirement to get a stable
institutional process.

~~~
crispyambulance

        > You need to punish people who don't punish people who don't follow the rules. That's a reflexive rule and is the minimum requirement to get a stable institutional process.
    

The story here is straight up cybercrime: a French cop who got pinched using
police resources for personal and nefarious gains. He's getting 7 years and
stiff fine.

What did Equifax in the US get in response to their colossal-scale criminal
negligence? Nothing. Zero fines and no one went to jail. Instead they were
required to "make a deal" which netted them a tidy profit.

~~~
jameskegel
One is a large company and one is a person. This is a well worn logical
stumbling point that many don’t consider.

~~~
drasticmeasures
They're not equal in the eyes of the law...

------
reacweb
I have published this link because I was chocked when I encountered this news.
This does not match with my understanding of police. In such services as DGSI,
I would expect to see many smart people who have a true vocation for the
service and some ambitious politicians who try to climb the hierarchy (not
exclusive). Of course, there are some depressive, desperate, alcoolic or crazy
people. Maybe there are spies paid by foreign countries, but I would not
expect to see greedy treators. Maybe, I have a crazy theory. What if this guy
was selling this data to try to catch big fishes ? What if this guy did this
in secret because his boss is a risk averse politician ? A person frustrated
by the inertia or other ineffectivity of the service and experiencing other
difficulties in their life may fall into this madness. I think they have
regular psychological assessment because this job is very hard.

I am just an imaginative layman. My source of knowledge about police is my
father (RIP) who was a police officer. He had friends who worked in dgsi.

~~~
Neracked
I am French and there are rumors that some people inside the police forces are
earning side money by funneling information from the police files to former
police officer working as private investigators (with the advantage of having
insider access to police data).

I always assumed that this practice was widespread. That is just an extension
of the traditional practice of "tricoche" (police officers performing
investigations for private customers).

~~~
reacweb
It is obvious that former police officer working as private have their
relation network. This makes former police officer so valuable. Active
officers trust them and want them to succeed (they may need to go private
themself one day). I have not heard about money transfer. This may happen
sometimes at small scale, but corruption is a very sensible subject in police.
People do not want to be caught as corrupt. This is very damaging to
reputation.

------
antpls
I would expect the intelligence services to be present on the dark web, as
undercover agents, to gather information or dismantle criminal organizations.
It must feel strange when they discover they are tracking someone of their own
services.

~~~
drasticmeasures
Maybe they have a difficult telling time telling them apart since they all act
so similarly...

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erazor42
I'm surprised he only face 7 years of prison. In the US he would probably face
30+ years no ?

~~~
gruez
more like, threatened with 30+ years by the prosecutor, but plea bargained
down to 5

~~~
cheeze
Depending on how wealthy and how white they are

------
auslander
> This case stands out because it's usually hackers and cyber-criminals who
> sell this data and not police officers.

Does it? ... "who got caught" who is after adtech executives who sells your
data? Equifax, anyone?

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pjc50
Ah, DGSI. [https://www.france24.com/en/20160929-sarkozy-scandal-spy-
squ...](https://www.france24.com/en/20160929-sarkozy-scandal-spy-squarcini-
investigation-ump-republicains-gaddafi)

------
YetAnotherNick
What exactly is dark web here. Do they mean some tor/IPFS site, or private
contacts, or what? If it's the former, can someone give links where this type
of info is sold, just out of curiosity.

------
drasticmeasures
A hired thug who doesn't care who his master is.

------
akuji1993
Oh no, somebody gave up the public's right for privacy for personal gain, I am
shocked.

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loxs
Bigger government will be even better.

------
jpdoherty
dreyfusaffair.onion

~~~
sevensor
Let's hope the accused officer isn't a member of an unpopular minority group.

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pandacat
By the way from other french articles: For 30 euros, you gave him a phone
number, he would give you his bank statements. For 50 euros, he would give you
his identity. For 150 euros, driver license number, date of delivery, ID card
number, social security number, license plate…. You could even know about the
flights he booked.

For 300 euros, could get his entire life. It was possible to get the police
documents and those from Interpol. But the most interesting with the 300 euros
offer was that with a simple phone number you could get all his phone calls
and it's physical location even month before. This was what chocked me the
most. There was a higher price for celebrities and politicians : I believe
those people have a special status.

~~~
drasticmeasures
What's persistently disturbing is that in a free (black) market the price for
that commodity has sunk so low. It means that there's a lot of offer
available...

~~~
jacquesm
At a guess he's not the only bent officer.

------
ElBarto
The title is somewhat misleading and the reality is much more serious.

As the article mentions this was not just a "police officer" this was an agent
of DGSI, something perhaps like the intelligence branch of the FBI in the US
if such thing exists.

------
crististm
@dang

I'm appalled of the growing number of dead posts that I see lately. Since
normal accounts apparently can't answer them, how do you think they will
regulate themselves?

~~~
aaronchall
I think the point of dead posts is that there is no punishment that works.
These are posters that thrive on and are reinforced by conflicting interaction
regardless of voting. When the posts are "dead" (and thus get no interaction)
we have extinction of the reinforcement.

~~~
crististm
Unfortunately conflicts are absolutely necessary for solving deep problems and
if conflict is banned outright then what remains is shallow or polite
conversation.

(Conflict does not mean malevolence)

~~~
Loughla
>(Conflict does not mean malevolence)

Not all conflict does, but in this case, the OP was talking about people who
are baiting argument for the sake of argument. They're not looking to solve
some problem. They're just looking to be dicks.

There is a difference.

~~~
crististm
Yes. But how do you enlarge the frame to include the conflict _and_ be able to
tell the useful one from the malevolent one?

My argument is that it is not clear in what way the dead posts became dead and
neither self-correction nor peer-correction are possible any more.

~~~
Loughla
I honestly don't know how to do it. But I will say that on HN at least, there
seems to be a moderation team interested in finding that balance.

The only comments I've seen that get killed are so far off the rails or so
hateful as to be completely unproductive.

From what I've seen online, the malevolent ones just seem to want to resort to
personal attacks, or make terrible arguments full of basic logic flaws.

I get what you're saying, but I would say that the onus is on the individual
arguing to prove they are not malicious. If I type something that can be
construed as 'off-topic' or malicious, I always either preface it with an
explanation to the word choice (i.e. don't read tone in text, because this is
said with a flat emote). Otherwise, I expect my comment to get flagged and
killed.

Like this one. This has nothing to do with the original story, so it may get
killed. And that's something that I understand and am okay with.

------
John_KZ
Ah, amateurs. He should have printed a notice saying "by entering the premises
you agree to my privacy policy". Then it would be ok to sell the data.

~~~
TeMPOraL
That won't fly under GDPR. The building owner should give you consent form:

    
    
      You consent to:
    
      - [ ] Your data will be processed by police department
            to fulfill your request.
      - [ ] Your data will be used to help with ongoing investigations*/**/***.
      - [ ] Your data will be used to better evaluate information
            coming from you****.
    
      <font size=smallest>
      *    - by consenting you agree to be included in department's suspect list.
      **   - by consenting you agree to have data shared with all other government
             agencies, as well as private investigators listed in Appendix A.
      ***  - by consenting you agree to have your data shared with select journalists
             (listed in Appendix B), as well as any and all social media profiles
             of the department.
      **** - by consenting you agree to be randomly searched and detained if the department
             determines a need for it.
      </font>
    
      Appendix A:
      [redacted due to national security concerns]

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
I'd happily sign such a form when dealing with the police. At least it would
give me some prospect of legal recourse if the data was ultimately found to be
being used in any other way.

~~~
drasticmeasures
I'd rather if they didn't spy on me in the first place...

------
throwaway456321
Bouillabaisse recipe?

