
Why I don't use Gnome Shell - AndrewDucker
http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html
======
rstuart4133
I'm not sure why these rants end up listing trivialities. Who cares whether
it's called Activities, Menu, foobar or is a hamburger icon? It's what it does
that matters, and what it does is pretty neat. Definitely better than Windows
10 attempt at the same thing.

That said, I don't use Gnome3 either. I use the task bar, AFAICT there is no
way to have one in Gnome3 so it's a non-starter for me. Given they have a
mostly empty bar at the top, I am buggered if I know why they don't provide
some taskbar widget. It's worst reason I guess - religious objections.

The other thing I that causes me to curse it very time I use it its insane
desire to maximise everything. Maximised everything is exactly what you need
on a 6" phone, but gnome3 doesn't work well there. It clearly targeted at
desktops. I use a 43" 4K screen. I paid for those pixels - and I want to put
every one of them to good use. Maximising a single web page is _not_ a good
use.

Which means unlike a conventional window manager which remembers and respects
where I put things, I have to reposition everything every fucking time I
reboot. And if a window is hidden I can't just click on the task bar, either I
have to move to top left corner then click or press a key.

This isn't "getting out of the way". This is shoving the designers idea of
good work flow down my throat. If their goal was to get of out of the way of a
"power user" (an archaic term, but it accurately described most Linux users)
this is vision of an ideal work flow would be the default and they provide the
tools to change it.

But those tools are completely absent. That arrogant omission is, gnome3 devs,
why half the Linux world view you as mad control freaks.

~~~
ssivark
Gnome-shell extensions recover a lot of the functionality that was removed
from the defaults. Eg,

\- For a taskbar:
[https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/584/taskbar/](https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/584/taskbar/)

\- An applications menu:
[https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-
menu/](https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/)

Agree with all your opinions otherwise.

~~~
rstuart4133
> For a taskbar

Thanks, my google foo failed me. So it was there all along.

If they've provided some way for me to say what a window's size and position
should be rather than having their "everything shall be maximised" shoved down
my throat it's worth trying again.

When I use Gnome3 now I am struck by how well everything works, albeit for
their definition of works. Random things tend to break under other WM's from
time to time which is irritating. From what I can tell this is because they
depend on gnome's applets to fill in the bits they don't have time to do, but
gnome is a moving target.

Random breakage is probably going to get worse as the move to Wayland
accelerates. Sigh. We do live in interesting times.

------
lukaslalinsky
I think GNOME 3 is the best desktop environment out there. I didn't like it
when it came out, but over the years I changed my mind. I feel very
constrained whenever I use Windows or OS X for a short time.

For example, I don't think I ever clicked on Activities. You just hit the
"Windows" key and type what you want. That is faster than any clicking.

~~~
harrygeez
Windows can do that too. On macOS cmd+space brings up spotlight. I don't see
your point. In fact I feel the total opposite.

~~~
pksadiq
You can use it as a nice calculator too. say, search for '1m in inch', or
simple calculations like '2+5*23' etc.

Can windows do that? I don't know

~~~
mikewhy
Spotlight on macOS has been able to do both of those for a while. Windows,
however, you'll still be crossing your fingers hoping the query "device
manager" brings up Device Manager, not a web search.

------
wallacoloo
I hope I don't come off as too insulting, but I don't see anything noteworthy
about this rant that's worth sharing. It's not particularly insightful, nor
notably well-written (the author rambles, but that's typical for rants like
these). Not to mention that he contradicts himself when he mentions how
Windows is rearranging all the menus from where they used to be, but concludes
by saying that gnome shell is the _only_ desktop forcing him to change.

The author's opinion has been shared countless times, as has its refutations.
There's nothing new or interesting here.

~~~
lproven
It's a fair comment.

Actually, I mostly use that blog as a place to post comments from online
discussions elsewhere, often as much for my own later reference as anything
else. I am taken aback to find that a friend has linked to it on HN and it's
attracted so much discussion!

If I had meant it to be widely-read, it would have been rather different and
submitted for professional publication -- probably on the Register.

The only point of yours that I'd disagree with is that I contradict myself
inasmuch as Win10 is different from earlier versions. Yes, it is; but it is
not _completely_ different. It retains many major UI elements, such as the
taskbar, which function very much as they did before. There is something
called a Start Menu again, but this works significantly differently from in
earlier versions -- but then, it has been substantially reworked in previous
revisions of Windows, as well.

I don't generally use Windows much and have not done for many years. However,
sometimes paid office jobs require me to, and I like to keep my hand in. As
I'm used to launching apps with a search command in both OS X and Unity, I
simply did so in Win8. I was not discommoded by the disappearance of the Start
Menu. However, having one back again that's only superficially like the old
one actually requires rather more adjustment, I have found.

Win10 is quite similar to Win8.1 except that the Start Screen has been
reframed as a menu, and the Charms bar has gone. Win8.1 was of course very
similar to Win8. Win8 was different to Win7, but not massively; and so on.

GNOME 3 is _very_ unlike GNOME 2. There is little commonality in the UI. I'd
say GNOME 2 bore a closer resemblance to KDE, Xfce and LXDE than it does to
GNOME 3.

Of course, new versions of major Linux desktops have often prompted people to
fork and continue the previous version. KDE 3 begat Trinity, GNOME Classic
Mode begat Consort, and so on. Generally, these forks have languished --
remained obscure or died.

The fact that GNOME 3 begot both Cinnamon and Maté, and that both of these
have proved, relatively speaking, very popular and successful and seem to be
in relatively rapid, active development speaks volumes, I think.

Some years ago, I published an article about the factionation that GNOME 3 had
caused:
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2013/06/03/thank_microsof...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2013/06/03/thank_microsoft_for_linux_desktop_fail/)

At that time, I saw it as a very negative thing: a loss of, er, unity.

Now, I see it as more positive. GNOME 3 did re-enliven things and has brought
us more diversity and innovation.

Just possibly inadvertently. :-)

------
unsignedint
Used to use Gnome Shell. Left it for XFCE for two reasons... somewhat randomly
occurring fallback to LLVM pipe mode where software rendering is used instead
of graphic card acceleraion. (I had to put in some sleep in launch script to
prevent it, but wasn't perfect either.)

Anther one is its behavior of treating IPv6 address as IPv4, so for example if
I type in IPv6 address in network setting, it tells me it's an invalid
address. Previously entered IPv6 address would be converted to some random
IPv4 address...

------
Epskampie
It's true you need a few extensions to make gnome shell usable, of which "dash
to dock" is the most essential:
[https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/307/dash-to-
dock/](https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/307/dash-to-dock/)

With these, I enjoy gnome very much. It's simple, vsynced, works well and
looks very nice.

~~~
vondur
Vsynced?

~~~
digi_owl
Likely yet another "tearing" complaint, that i am starting to suspect has more
to do with nvidia proprietary drivers than anything else...

------
sullyj3
Is the author unaware that you don't need to click activities, you can just
mouse to the top left corner of the screen? This is Linux, it doesn't have to
say activities if you don't want it to. You can get themes with OS logos and
such, if you want.

~~~
lproven
Honestly, yes, I was unaware of that.

But also being honest, I dislike hot-corner activation, which Unity also does.
Screen edges are much bigger and easier to hit, as per Fitt's Law.

------
merb
I actually agree with him on many topics.

Also Gnome has extensions, but actually most time a Extension feature is
actually used as an excuse for not shipping features.

~~~
digi_owl
And various people with a strong voice within Gnome development would love to
extensions dead and buried, as they mess up the UX and brand of Gnome...

------
pvaldes
Gnome user here from 15 years, after trying practically all available
desktops. Currently in Cinnamon.

------
qplex
>OS X and Unity and Windows Vista/7/8/10 all give me app searching as a
primary launch mechanism; it’s not a selling point of GNOME 3.

This is just false; "app searching" as a "primary launch mechanism" works
perfectly well in GNOME 3.

Perhaps you should ask you money back.

~~~
JadeNB
> > OS X and Unity and Windows Vista/7/8/10 all give me app searching as a
> primary launch mechanism; it’s not a selling point of GNOME 3.

> This is just false; "app searching" as a "primary launch mechanism" works
> perfectly well in GNOME 3.

I think your parent's point which you quote was not that GNOME 3 doesn't do
this, but rather that it's not _unique_ in doing it—which is why it's not a
selling point. (Just as, for example, one wouldn't mention, say, multi-tasking
as a selling point of a modern OS, even though it is surely crucial.)

~~~
qplex
Ah, Thanks. I didn't read carefully enough.

To comment more on the article: In my opinion, Unity wastes a ridiculous
amount of screenspace showing that fancy iconbar.

~~~
lproven
That's fair enough.

I set it to autohide on smaller screens, such as sub-14" notebooks. I do miss
the old "dodge windows" config option, though -- that was very handy. A sort
of auto-autohide that only triggered when you needed it.

------
KerrickStaley
I added a comment on LiveJournal, but it apparently got marked as spam. [1]
Reposting here:

Like most software, GNOME 3 requires a bit of learning before you can use it
most effectively, but it's actually a really easy learning curve because GNOME
is designed to be intuitive.

The biggest thing I'd recommend is learning the keyboard shortcuts. Pressing
the Super (aka Windows) key will open the Activities overview. Pressing the
Super key and then typing the name of an app then Enter will launch that app
(I never use the mouse to launch an app). Super + Tab switches between running
apps. There are a few more here: [https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-
help/stable/shell-keyboar...](https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-
help/stable/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html.en). It's actually shorter and
easier to remember than the man page of even a simple command line tool like
"ls"—and you probably have dozens of command line tools memorized, including
complex tools like find, sed, and curl.

This may sound preachy, but life is a lot better when you stop worrying about
customization. Learn how the software works and adapt yourself to it. Think of
how many places you have to do this in the real world: bicycles, cars,
election ballots, transit systems, and grocery stores all have "UI"s that can
be counterintuitive or slow, which you don't have much control over. But you
don't complain because you can't change their UIs. GNOME is far easier to use
than any of these, but because other desktops offer more customization, users
can feel like GNOME is lacking. But if you accept that GNOME is not really
intended to be heavily customized and just try to get used to the vanilla
experience, you may actually be really happy using it.

Caveat: if there's something that makes your workflow 3x faster, definitely
spend a few minutes setting that up. But things like the position of the app
title vs the position of the clock are not worth splitting hairs over. The
GNOME team actually cares deeply abut usability and although some design
decisions may seem quirky, every feature is scrutinized through the lens of
ease-of-use. GNOME's UI Design Principles talk more about this and are a good,
short read: [https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/design-
principles.htm...](https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/design-
principles.html.en)

[1] LiveJournal gave me the following message after posting:

Your anonymous comment has been added. According to this journal's settings,
it was marked as spam.

It gave a similar message when I tried authenticating with Google. Not sure
what's up with this.

~~~
lproven
Thanks for that. JOOI, I was not notified of any such comment. I did get and
unscreen a single comment, but it's a different (anonymous) one – visible
there now.

You should be able to sign-in to LJ to comment using any OpenID. In fact
OpenID itself actually originated as an LJ-affiliated project by one of LJ's
developers.

I _do_ learn to adapt to the provided UI on many devices and OSes /where I
don't have a choice./ But on Linux, I _do_ have a choice, so why should I
spend the effort adapt to something that doesn't work the way I'm used to or
in a way that I like, when I could just switch environments to something that
I find more comfortable?

When I worked at Red Hat, I switched from GNOME 3 to Xfce. Yes, it's old
fashioned, but I can, with some effort, set it up to work much like Windows
with a vertical taskbar – a layout I find convenient and flexible.

As I said in the blogpost, on Windows I use a vertical taskbar on the left
screen edge. On Mac OS X, I move the Dock there. On Unity, well, that's just
where it is and it's hard to move, but I don't want to, so I'm fine with that.
On GNOME 3, I get that too, but in a limited, rather inflexible and unhelpful,
form.

The primary question is: is there a benefit to me in switching and re-adapting
to working in a system that's significantly unlike any of the others that I
use? And the answer, _for me_, is no. I don't get enough reward to justify it,
so I don't adapt - I switch to a desktop that works in something approximating
the way I like.

Although I've used Windows since v2.01 in 1989, I switched away from it at the
turn of the century. Now, OS X and Unity give me a fairly consistent desktop.
With tweaking, Windows and Xfce give something very broadly comparable. GNOME
Shell is left as something of an odd-man-out.

But that's just me. I am very happy to see its increasing polish and that it's
winning people back.

