
Saving the Swiss Watch Industry Again - readhn
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-26/saving-the-swiss-watch-industry-again
======
apozem
I wasn't interested in mechanical watches until reading this from Marco
Arment:

> Logically, I shouldn’t like these. I’m a usually-rational software developer
> and computer geek. Mechanical watches are ancient technology that’s
> outclassed in every objective metric — accuracy, reliability, simplicity,
> cost — by any inexpensive quartz watch, let alone the high-precision
> timekeeping and unmatchable connected-computer features on the Apple
> Watch...

A big part of that joy, for me, is that this isn’t like anything else in my
life, and the difference is refreshing.

Most of my work and hobbies involve technologically cutting-edge digital
electronics reliant on complex, inconsistent software, with a typical lifetime
of a few years at most. Almost everything else I use and make is effectively
disposable.

As software creeps into ever more objects in my daily life and makes them more
capable yet more disposable and less reliable than ever, it’s nice to have
something that does less, always works, never needs a software update,
requires no cables, doesn’t need to be charged, and whose useful life will
probably be longer than mine.

[https://marco.org/2016/02/05/watch](https://marco.org/2016/02/05/watch)

------
buserror
Funny that, my interest in watches started /because/ of the smart watches. I
picked a cheap chinese automatic watch on aliexpress last year, just to see if
it'd still annoy me to wear a watch, as it used to last time I tried a few
years back. Idea was, if I can wear a basic watch, i'd buy a smart one...

Lo' and behold, I loved it. My £12 chinese crapiola was actually pretty darn
good and I wore it for several weeks, before I bought another 'proper' watch,
and I since bough half a dozen, including 'expensive' swiss ones...

The really funny thing is -- it has increased my phone battery life! I'm not
kidding, since I no longer have to wake up the phone to check the time, my
phone battery lasts significantly longer!

Now _that 's_ a side effect people aren't talking about :-)

~~~
criddell
Do you have a favorite watch?

~~~
buserror
Actually the one I wear the most is the Steinhart diver one... because it's
quite sturdy; and not expensive enough to be scared if it's bumped into
stuff... It's really excellent value, I think.

As a full blood nerd, my read favourite is the Bulova Accutron Spaceview from
1964 -- it as ONE transistor, so I call it my smartwatch ;-)

~~~
tiatia
Ah. Steinhart. Good too. Kemmner, another one. Some kind of legend. But
communication with him is said to be tricky:
[http://www.ebay.de/sch/erkahund/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&...](http://www.ebay.de/sch/erkahund/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=)

------
lb1lf
I think part of the problem is that just about all Swiss watch brands have
taken the realisation that what they offer is a Veblen good to extremes; high
price has become a selling point to the extent that the mass market can no
longer buy their offerings.

That's kind of bad, as that's where the money is at.

I am a mechanical watch nut - I own a few dozen, mostly bought second hand, I
do my own basic maintenance etc - I have to date bought one luxury watch new;
an Omega Planet Ocean which close to a decade ago set me back USD 2,700 or so
- by all means a lot of money, but doable for a working professional in a
reasonably well off economy.

Today, as far as I can tell, a comparable model in the same range retails at
$6,000, while cost of living overall has increased only 19% in the same
period. Go figure.

------
xHopen
Smart watch , and I love tech I own a pebble and apple watch and an Android
wear, it doesn't have anything to do with a watch. In fact a mechanical watch
is already far far away from a quartz movement watch. IWC , Omega,
junghans(German), Nomos , rolex, Patek... all this brands all this watch
making houses are something that a smart watch can't compare with. The person
that likes watches, will wear a smart watch to exercise. TAG made the smart
watch because the CEO is amazing and he doesn't fear anything. But when people
confuse smartwatch market with mechanical watch market doesn't know what is
talking about and doesn't own a real watch. Btw, one of the problems I see
with smart watches is that they are ugly objects, even the apple watch if you
compare it to a Hublot or a simple Hamilton is just an ugly object, and
watches are more than time keeper devices are objects that when you look at
them in your wrist , the give you the sensation of beauty of harmony and also
they tell time.

~~~
trabant00
You are describing the current status. That is not where the doubt is. The
article worries about the future and how trends will change. As mentioned in
the article what "a real watch" means changed a couple of times and it could
change in the future. I'm sure the very ornate gold pocket watch wearer of
decades ago sneered at those ridiculous little simple looking things that went
on the wrist.

~~~
jrockway
I wear a mechanical watch because it looks nice and doesn't need firmware
updates or charging. I need another device to plug in like another hole in my
head. But it is nice to know what time it is without pulling out your phone
and drawing a lot of attention.

------
grp
For someone working in the watchmaking industry, there is nothing new here.
Another post on this managerial crisis, it's not due to financial crisis or
smartwatches entering the market.

It's pretty sad that CEOs doesn't want to speak clearly about the real
problems (except one [1], in french).

>> _The [Swatch group] recently warned that first-half profit would plummet
more than 50 percent._ Really?!?

They can repeat THAT again without being bashed?

Maybe they could just shut up and be happy they still have profit...

[1] [https://www.letemps.ch/economie/2016/09/28/crise-
horlogere-n...](https://www.letemps.ch/economie/2016/09/28/crise-horlogere-
nest-une-crise-economique)

------
nl
I used to be a watch fan. Not hardcore - I didn't collect or anything, but I
liked good quality quartz watches.

Then I got given a Huawei smartwatch as a gift. It's _good_.

Firstly, it looks nice. Maybe not as good as a high-end Swiss watch, but it's
much nicer than a Pebble (I think it's nicer than a iWatch, but YMMV). Also,
changing faces is fun.

Secondly, it's amazingly useful. I can be in a meeting or talking to someone,
feel my watch buzz and check to see if I need to respond to a message without
pulling my phone out.

Also, the battery life is really good. I went away and forgot my charger and
got 2 1/2 days out of it.

~~~
user5994461
> Also, the battery life is really good. I went away and forgot my charger and
> got 2 1/2 days out of it.

I'm surprised that they can sell 2 days battery as a feature and have people
swallow it.

What's written behind my watch: "10 year battery life".

~~~
jedrek
To be fair, your watch can be replaced by a well crafted stick and dial combo.

~~~
wlesieutre
And throw on a compass to align it correctly. Of course this has been done
already, and you can be the proud owner of a wrist sundial for only $40!
[https://www.amazon.com/Sundial-Compass-Leather-
Strap-C-3117/...](https://www.amazon.com/Sundial-Compass-Leather-
Strap-C-3117/dp/B00L7VAL0U)

Infinite battery life! Eat that, user5994461's watch! ;)

~~~
user5994461
Coincidentally, my watch has a compass :D

------
readhn
"Aside from TAG Heuer SA, which released a $1,500 smartwatch last year, Swiss
companies have been slow to respond this shift. Only 25 percent of watch
executives consider smartwatches a competitive threat, according to a survey
last year by Deloitte. There's been no major effort so far to design a way out
of the current crisis."

~~~
misja111
And that's because:

"Much of the pain has to do with factors the watch companies couldn't hope to
control—including the strength of the Swiss franc and climbing gold prices"

Smartwatches are a niche product, they have little to do with the problems
that the Swiss companies are currently facing.

~~~
kanwisher
The Apple Watch is out selling every luxury brand except Rolex. Definitely a
generation shift here

~~~
hocuspocus
I don't see how that's relevant. A luxury watch is typically ten times the
price, serves a different purpose and should last 50 years.

~~~
gambiting
In fact, regular luxury watch will last a lot longer. Omega will happily fully
service/restore any of their watches, no matter how old:

[https://www.omegawatches.com/customer-service/service-
prices...](https://www.omegawatches.com/customer-service/service-
prices/?no_cache=1)

In my mind, a nice rolex/omega/patek is something that is passed on to
children, while even the top end Apple Watch is a product that one would
expect to replace after few years.

~~~
ghostDancer
That's the motto/line of Patek Philippe . "You merely look after it for the
next generation"

------
zeveb
I recently wanted to buy a smart watch. I took a long, hard look at each one
of my options, and my final conclusion was that none of them is actually
acceptable: they're all ugly or have poor features or too big or whatever.

But I still wanted a watch. So I took a look at some good mechanical watches.
You know what? Many of them are beautiful. I _want_ to wear one. Sure, they're
expensive but — they're jewelry: there's nothing wrong with that!

So I ended up getting a good-quality mechanical watch, and I couldn't be
happier.

There was a time when digital watches were the height of extravagance, but
they quit being fashionable because they're honestly not better. Right now,
smart watches are honestly not better, and I suspect that they never will be.

I wear a watch to tell the time, and to look good; I have a phone (or, better
still, a tablet) to be a handheld computer.

------
ungzd
Why saving it? Mechanical watches fall into the same category of crappy swank
for poor people as golden jewelry and chains. Swag for salesmans from office
ghettos.

Even design of these watches is complete postmodernist nonsense. Lots of clock
hands, bells and whistles, glittery things.

~~~
laurent123456
I use an automatic watch because I don't want to have to charge it every 2
days (or even change the batteries), and all I need is the time and date. I
also don't want to have to debug my watch every time an update or app breaks
it, it's just one less thing to worry about.

~~~
lmns
This. You could buy an automatic Seiko 5 for the price of a Swatch and go
decades without servicing. At least 10 years should be possible without any
problems for every model.

------
fungi
Shouldn't the Japanese industry be more worried? They don't have the same
prestige to shrink back into. Only Casio is having a stab at the smartwatch
category and its not exactly anything more then an also ran.

------
agentgt
My annoyance with watches is that I have tiny wrists (even when I was in my
twenties and could deadlift more than 500lbs... my wrist have been
pathetically small).

I have accepted my small wrists but have yet to see a form factor of almost
any watch that is acceptable given that I'm a male and want it either
genderless or somewhat masculine themed.

The one exception is the fitbit (which I don't have as I'm still waiting for
the tech to improve on those guys).

~~~
creeble
You would be in luck with many vintage watches. They are often much smaller
(30mm-ish compared to today's minimum 40-42) and there is huge variety.

I have several vintage watches (mostly 50's and 60's), and a few are just a
tad small for my average-sized wrist. I particularly like two Lord Elgins I
have but never wear, sadly.

------
scandox
My Dad had in no particular order:

Audemars Piguet (gold with Moon phase)

Breguet Jumphand Limited Edition

Diamond encrusted Patek Phillipe

Reversible face Jaeger le Couture sports watch

Various 1960s Omegas and Longines with beautiful designs/inlays

And for years I thought of luxury watches as something interesting and
worthwhile, even if I personally could not countenance or afford spending
£30,000 on one. But I learned something:

They're expensive to maintain. They don't actually keep perfect time. They're
heavy.

In fact, they're silly things really, except for the clockwork itself, if you
like that kind of thing.

This is the best watch in the world:
[http://www.staples.com/Casio-A168W-1-Mens-Classic-Digital-
El...](http://www.staples.com/Casio-A168W-1-Mens-Classic-Digital-Electro-
Luminescence-Bracelet-Wrist-Watch-Silver/product_896197)

~~~
criddell
I have a cheap mechanical watch (a Seiko) that has a transparent back where I
can see the mechanism. I can't say why, but there's something about carrying
around a tiny little machine that harvests energy from my movement that I
enjoy.

Everything you wrote is true - the watch needs maintenance and they don't keep
great time. For me, that's part of the charm. It has quirks like if I leave it
face down, it loses a bit of time. When it gets very quiet, I can hear the
watch's heartbeat. When I got it, the watch was fast by about 5 minutes every
day so I bought some tools to open the case and adjust the machine to slow it
down.

When a month has less than 31 days, I have to adjust the date on the watch and
that involves turning the crown which is a shaft with gearing on the end that
spins the date dial. It's all very physical.

------
jbpetersen
And now I find I'd very much like an easily hackable smartwatch built with
quality materials. Yet AFAICT none exist yet.

------
bartread
It's interesting. The results _are_ bad but a few things don't really square
up for me:

\- Sure the CHF is strong, and gold prices are high,

\- Nonetheless, it certainly _feels_ like watch price inflation has
outstripped general inflation to an unreasonable extent,

\- Over the past few months there seems to have been an explosion of YouTube
channels dealing with watches and horology (Federico talks watches,
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH27JDu8g6tPDIjDikVGPog](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH27JDu8g6tPDIjDikVGPog),
and the now sadly withdrawn Paul Thorpe Watch Dealer, to name but two), with
healthy subscriber growth,

\- Continuing popularlity of watch forums, blogs, etc.

The YouTube channel comment may just be my own perception since my own
interest in watches really only started in early 2014 (I'd always liked them
but avoided getting into them instinctively on the grounds that as expensive
hobbies go, this one seems potentially ruinous).

I do wonder if Swiss manufacturers haven't crapped in their own nest somewhat
by over-inflating prices during the period of popularity over the last few
years. Sure there are factors beyond their control but, for example, any
stainless steel Rolex you're likely to want will set you back at least £6k. I
realise the weak pound exacerbates matters, but it still feels like they're
taking the mick.

And I can sort of see the perspective on smart watches being no threat: the
availability of Apple or Android Smartwatches is going to have _no_ effect on
my decision to buy a Rolex, Omega, Ulysse Nardin, AP, or whatever.

Part of me also somewhat objects to spending £500 on something else with a 2
year (ish) useful life (think laptop, tablet, phone, on top of this), whereas
a £500 mechanical watch from Hamilton or Seiko will last a lifetime if
properly serviced and taken care of.

One of the big reasons I started wearing a watch again, apart from I think
they're cool (especially mechanical watches), is so I'd stop pulling out my
phone to check the time, inevitably leading to me seeing a notification, and
then 10 minutes of my life has disappeared screwing around with
twitter/facebook/email/whatever... all because I wanted to know what time it
was. From that point of view the Apple Watch, much as I think it _is_ quite
cool, would be completely counterproductive. Absolutely the last thing I need
in my life is yet more distractions.

But not everyone thinks like that, so maybe smartwatches are a threat to the
high end manufacturers.

One thing nobody's mentioned so far: servicing. People talk about how a good
mechanical watch will last a lifetime, or even outlast you, and this is true,
that can happen. But the keyword here is mechanical. This means wear and tear
on the mechanism, and that means that, just like your car, you have to get it
serviced and lubricated to keep it running well. Often this is every 3 - 5
years, and for a luxury watch will cost as much as a significant piece of
maintenance or repair on your car: i.e., £500+.

It might also take 3 months.

This sucks, and does perhaps cast that £500 every 2 - 3 years for an Apple
Watch in a slightly different light.

In fairness to the Swiss manufacturers, some of them are making efforts in
this area. Some are improving their customer service (I believe Omega are
supposed to be strong here), and Breitling have recently released their own
in-house B01 movement which I've heard may only need to be serviced every 10
years (at what cost I don't know). Similarly I believe the Omega co-axial
movements also have longer service intervals. Nevertheless Swiss watchmaking
is an old skool - somewhat elitist - industry overall and their idea of
acceptable customer service does lag the curve.

------
marincounty
"The most resilient part of the industry is that you buy a Swiss watch because
you want to say, 'I have a Swiss watch,'" said Paul Swinand"

I love mechanical watches. I repair watches. I love all things related to
horology.

That said, if I bought a new Rolex, I really wouldn't own the watch the minute
it went out of warranty.

What? Yea, Rolex, and 99% of the other Swiss Watch Companies will not sell
parts to their customers. They want you to send it back to the factory, at
factory prices, when it needs a service, or breaks down.

If anyone from The Swiss Watch Industry is listening, enough with the "quality
assurance" bs. Your industry is in a very delicate point in history. If you
don't clean up you act, the quartz crisis of the 70's will look like minor
stumbling block.

I never though I would say this, but lately, that Apple Watch is looking
better. I just don't want to carry around an IPhone.

So, stop abusing the anti-trust act, and be very friendly to anyone whom buys
your overpriced hunks of metal. You're in no position to call any shots, or
get cute. If I owned your stock; I would short it yesterday.

(Sorry if I sound bitter. In the last 7 years, the Swiss watch companies
pissed off a lot of Independant Watch Repairers, by not selling parts. The
average dude with the $25,000 watch has no clue that he/she really doesn't own
that watch. They are essentially leasing it. Having the right to repair(let
the customer decide whom is going to repair) is so essential to the future of
mechanical watches.)

~~~
jrockway
Really? I thought everyone that owns a mechanical watch knows that they have
to send it in for a $700 servicing every ~5 years.

~~~
filthee
You don't have to send it to Switzerland or even to a local dealer. There are
a lot of reputable, independent vendors that will service, for example, a
Submariner, for a fraction of what Rolex would charge.

