
Millennials flocking to 10 US cities to get a job, buy a home, and start a life - kimsk112
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-housing-markets-2018-millennial-home-buying-2017-12
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nimbius
As a Californian millennial articles like these make me frustrated. my one
bedroom apartment is ~2200 a month and came without a refrigerator. home
prices start at a million dollars, traffic is horrid and the city i live in is
currently on fire.

That having been said, im not sure id trade California for Ohio or other so
called "flyover" states. The only time they end up on the nightly news is when
they violate marriage laws (Kentucky) for gay couples, stage a massive white
supremacy rally (Virginia) or pass some arcane law that either wipes out
womens healthcare or edifies teaching autonomous ignorance in place of biology
in school.

Is there an independent perspective on these cities? Something that cuts to
the point of what living in Tennessee is actually like? can I still get
bulgogi and ramen? how does healthcare work? I know these states would get
quite a few more transplants if they or someone just explained what it was to
be a part of them.

~~~
mcknz
It's not so much of a "flyover" state dynamic -- it's more rural vs urban.

States like OH and KY have more rural space, which tends to lean conservative,
which increases the chances of hearing about extreme-right nonsense.

I would imagine the opposite is true in states with more urban space and the
nonsense of the extreme left.

Urban areas in OH and KY are similar in terms of cultural offerings and
advanced technology of most cities. Or at least they are in Columbus....

~~~
ellius
Yep. Did school in Boston for several years, almost exactly the same as my
life in Cincinnati and Columbus except more expensive. There are definitely
pros and cons to any decision about where to live, but your life in most
places is always going to be “work, go home, pay for stuff, spend time doing
fun stuff with friends when possible.” The only valid exception is if you’re
working in a field and position where you truly need to be exposed to the
absolute highest levels of industry, e.g. NYC for finance, D.C. for law and
politics, SV for tech. But the people who are truly operating at the level
where that matters are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a %, and if
Warren Buffet can work from Nebraska I assume that’s true even for many people
who are at that level.

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pkamb
The cities in this list in no way represent the top 10 cities that millennials
are "flocking" to.

Headline:

> millennials are flocking to 10 US cities to get a job, buy a home, and start
> a life

Data:

> 10 US housing markets Trulia expects will grow next year while remaining
> affordable and attracting young buyers.

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nugget
I could not have been more wrong in my predictions of this trend. At Y2K I
looked at a future where better technology would allow people to spread out
around the country and still tap into meaningful cultural and job
opportunities. Lower cost of living and higher quality of life. Instead, it's
like the opposite has happened, and we're increasingly roped together by a
noose that tightens more every year.

~~~
LeoJiWoo
It's not really technology pushing people into cities is it ?

I assumed its really due to a lack of well paying jobs, combined with an
increased debt burden from college.

I guess one could argue technology has lead to increased automation and
reduction of jobs typically found outside of cities.

~~~
sushisource
I suspect this is almost more of a "marketing" (for lack of a better word)
problem than anything else. It's this negative feedback loop where no one
thinks non-costal cities are cool, so they don't move there, so they don't
become cool, etc, etc.

~~~
lbotos
I grew up on the East Coast so that may also bias me a bit, but I'm planning
on being in NYC for at least the next 10 years seeing how the "second coming"
of tech plays out. I feel a lot better about job prospects in NYC in an
economic downturn vs basically anywhere else. Sure, rent is high in the
abstract but roommates bring it way down.

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byandyphillips
Columbus, Ohio (#8 on the list) native here working in User Experience Design
making an average tech salary. At the end of every month I'm always amazed at
how much I can put in savings and travel because of the low cost of living. I
live downtown and my rent is only $750. There also seems to be high demand for
jobs, but not enough talent to fill those jobs.

~~~
Ro93
sounds pretty cool, but then I'd have to live in Ohio.... more of Michigan
person myself

~~~
nextstep
What’s the difference? (honest question)

~~~
exclusiv
I can't speak to the parent's reasons, but I do know that Ohio and Michigan
are rivals for a variety of reasons, one from the early indoctrination of
their public universities (Ohio State Buckeyes and Michigan Wolverines) into
the general populace, even those that never attend either. Those two states
have an allegiance/pride instilled into their citizens early that most places
don't (apart from maybe Texas and NYC). Some of my friends that I went to
college with that grew up in Michigan actually rooted for the Wolverines to
beat us haha.

~~~
qbrass
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War)

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AcerbicZero
Having recently escaped Columbus, Ohio after an extended accidental stop
there, it would take a lot more than just the ability to buy a shitty house to
get me to go back. The job market is deceptively weak, going _anywhere_
requires getting in a car, and worst of all you share the state with
Cincinatti, which is like Columbus, but somehow worse in every way.

Seriously though, of course houses are cheap in Ohio. The 3 major Ohio cities
are all giant sprawling semi-urban areas, with _very_ limited public transit,
while the rest of the state is in varying states of rust belt recovery (or
collapse). The few walkable, connected neighborhoods in Columbus (Upper
Arlington, the nice part of Grandview, etc) command prices that would be tough
to afford on a west coast salary, let alone the 60k-90k you'd make in Ohio.

~~~
mcknz
I would take exception to a lot of this, but you're right about needing a car.
Columbus is extremely lacking in public transportation. Traffic is not too bad
overall, but if growth continues eventually the increasing number of cars will
create even more problems.

~~~
nategri
I know I was living in a bit of a special enclave of Columbus (Clintonville),
but I I'm finding a car to be _much_ more mandatory in the South Bay. In
Columbus I would only drive about once a week when I needed to go out to the
suburbs.

EDIT: However I do agree that public transportation sucks there. BUT it can be
far, far more pedestrian-friendly than my current environs.

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NTDF9
Raleigh is a hidden treasure. Educated populace with good schools, pretty
decent jobs, yet peaceful and green.

Their only drawback is isolation from west coast hubs.

~~~
cblock811
I grew up in Charlotte and a lot of my engineer friends have settled and
started families in Raleigh. It's made me consider moving there when I finally
burn out on the Bay Area scene.

~~~
junkcollector
I can personally attest that every place on that list is pretty damn nice
except for Grand Rapids which is to damn cold! They all have low cost of
living and a solid tech scene as well.

~~~
RightMillennial
Don't forget cloudy too. You can go for close to a month without any sunshine
around February in Grand Rapids.

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hkmurakami
Added bonus of a cheaper state income tax at any of these places vs CA or NY
(expect WA which wins out for the time being, though they seem to be facing
pressure to change)

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handbanana
For those also using an ad blocker like myself:

10 cincinnati, 9 madison, 8 columbus, 7 austin, 6 fort worth, 5 san antonio, 4
el paso, 3 raleigh, 2 nashville, 1 grand rapids

~~~
pwinnski
I briefly debated turning off my ad-blocker to see this list. Decided instead
to check HN in a couple of hours, so thank you!

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rambleraptor
With how much talent the coasts seem to suck in, there needs to be a better
conversation about how the rest of the country attracts talent. It's becoming
more and more obvious that economic growth is predicated on solid jobs
requiring a college education.

~~~
WkndTriathlete
The north central schools (think Big 10 land-grant colleges), Georgia Tech,
and Texas schools produce perfectly fine engineering and science grads. They
mostly don't leave the locales they are in, because they all do this analysis:

"California: great weather all year, earn much less adjusted for CoL" "(e.g.)
Minnesota: great weather for 8 months of the year (11 months if you ski or
play ice hockey), earn much more adjusted for CoL"

So maybe you just haven't seen the talent in the rest of the country and
assume it isn't there?

~~~
JBlue42
I've heard great things about Minneapolis, always with the caveat 'except for
winter' but it seems you can still do winter stuff like people do in the rest
of the world. Is the winter particularly bad or does it just seem that way if
you're coming from a typically sunnier climate?

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b3b0p
It's strange to see Austin on this list. It says it takes nearly 50% of your
income to buy a home. While all the other cities are nearly half that. Most of
the other cities are also Midwest/North and have seasons / snow except for all
the other Texas cities.

I'm in Austin, I like it, I don't see myself ever buying a home, but I'm happy
renting. I've owned homes in the past and I honestly didn't like it.

~~~
swozey
My honeymoon with Austin ended a few years ago. In 2011 I absolutely loved it.
Pubtrans and traffic has become so miserable (oh boy, express lanes) that I
have almost completely quit leaving my 3 mile bubble. I ride my bike sometimes
but that's always nerve wracking. Everyone from LA will hop on here and say
it's not bad, the problem is it's not getting better. The improvement projects
are bad. The metro rail by me runs ONCE an hour.

Also people are being priced out of homes. You know why there are hardly any
townhouses here that were built after the 70s? COA banned building single
family homes on lots smaller than 5750 sq feet. That regulation was removed
LAST year. Your options for buying property here for anywhere near our median
house value was basically buying a condo in a midrise or buying a 70s house up
north (which is what I had to do). If you go to Dallas or Houston you can find
really nice 2-10 year old townhouses in the middle of cool areas for
$200-300k. Appraisals skyrocketing 30-50k/yr for the last 2 years has caused
my property tax to rise $200/mo .. twice. And that's with homestead exemption.
$800/mo in property taxes alone for my 70s regular-old-house. I'm sure it'll
go up another $200 next year.

Median household value is $400k now. [http://kxan.com/2017/06/14/report-shows-
austins-average-home...](http://kxan.com/2017/06/14/report-shows-austins-
average-home-price-hits-record-400k/)

Been considering Olympia lately. Visited a few months ago and it was a really
cool place. Felt like Austin probably 30 years ago. People still owned houses
"downtown." Super walk/bikeable and a lot going on. I was shocked when I
realized it only has 50k people.

Also you're so damned central in TX that I can't go camping anywhere fun
without a minimum 8 hour drive.

~~~
b3b0p
The property taxes here to me are my main concern. Even if paying for a
downtown condo in cash I still have a substantial monthly constantly growing
property tax. It seems pointless to me.

It is very bike (although all my friends disagree) and walk friendly. I got
rid of my car and have been biking and walking every where (my apartment is
downtown). Minus insurance, car payment and parking fee my rent is about what
it was in Oklahoma, but in a much better location and quality of life.

I came from Oklahoma a few years ago, where I owned a house in Tulsa and then
Stillwater. Home prices are very similar to what you describe. For $200,000 to
$300,000 you get a mansion, brand new even, in a very nicely kept up community
with little to no H.O.A. fee (for keeping it up and access to the community
amenities like club house and pool and trash).

Edit: Do you mean Olympia, WA?

~~~
swozey
Yeah, Olympia WA. I know nothing about it beyond spending two days there while
I was hiking around Olympic National Park, but I really liked it. I'm sick of
having to drive and find parking etc everywhere.

My mortgage is 1400, my property tax is around 750 for reference. I previously
had a fancy unnecessary downtown apt (studio) for about $1700, now I'm around
2500/mo after insurance, etc. I put very little down, my bank only required
3.5% down but I put around 10% down. The house I bought has gone up $100k in
the last 2 years so I figured if I didn't buy now I'd never be able to buy.

If only salaries went up 10-20%/yr like my property taxes do.

~~~
b3b0p
My apartment is somewhere around 1,800-1,900 per month and that includes all
fees and what not. It's also a studio, but it's condo grade (3 feet of sound
proofing on all walls and ceilings), concierge, built in Sonos and speakers,
ethernet, and option of having Google Fiber. Not sure I ever want to move. I'm
kind of content actually.

It's tempting to consider buying a condo downtown over at 360 or even Seaholm
for the reasons you list. I would put down 20-30% though. I do not want to
live outside the city. I like being in the middle of everything. I've toyed
the idea of moving back home to Minneapolis or trying out Portland. I don't
want to deal wit cold weather. My parents are retiring and just bought a home
in Sarasota. They have invited me down with them. Which is tempting.

~~~
swozey
I have family in Sarasota. If you at all like the fact that you can do things
after 8pm in Austin do not move to Sarasota. Go visit your parents so you can
go to the beach (Siesta Key) and go home.. lol. I lived with my mom in
Sarasota for year after college and not only did I have to drive an hour to
Tampa for work but the place was one of the most boring places I'd ever lived.

I'm 2 miles from the domain which is one reason my property taxes are so high,
$380k 3/2 house. So, while I'm not "in the city" it's a $6 Lyft to go to rock
rose, train downtown is 5 minutes away (but stops going north at 7pm).

I lived in midrises forever. I got absolutely sick of dealing with parking
garages every time I wanted to go drive somewhere. Beware as well, some of the
downtown highrises require you to use and pay for valet services. The
Austonian didn't require me to use it but there are a couple that do.

I just wanted a damned nice townhouse like I had in Houston. They started
building them in 78704 but they're $800k (because 78704). These sorts of
things;
[https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/f0/4c/16f04c1392ade123104c...](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/f0/4c/16f04c1392ade123104c9b46d00f0e2b.jpg)

They're perfect for me, I'm single and just have dogs. Right now I have a
front and back yard that nobody ever uses.

~~~
b3b0p
Thanks much for the information. I currently live in 78704 (The Catherine).
Those types of places are perfect for me as well. I'd love something like
those townhouses (also single, would love a dog as a companion). I was looking
and tempting like I mentioned a 1 bedroom at the 360 or Sealholm or 800
Brazos, but those start around $400,000. Location is very important to me. I'm
not going to live outside the city.

Thanks for the heads up about Sarasota. The reason I left my cushy lifetime
job in Oklahoma was because of the lifestyle. I was bored out of my mine.
Nearly felt like I needed prozac and psychotherapist just to make it through
the days (I didn't, but it sure felt like it). Coming to Austin, with in a day
or few I was cured. My parents would have moved to Austin, as they love it,
but dad was dead set on a boat and water and ocean front (they bought a house
on the ocean and are shopping boats now).

You lived in the Austrian? I don't have that kind of spare cash, at least from
the prices I have seen advertised.

If you are downtown and bored and want to meet up or something, my email is in
my profile. You should hit me up. Love to chat more if you are interested.

~~~
swozey
Stayed with a buddy who owns some units there, definitely out of my range and
even if it were for that price I'd be on the lake or something.

Not downtown much but I'll drop you a line when I am. I stay in my little 3
mile bubble around the domain mostly these days. Pretty boring and quiet but
everything I need out here.

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mulletbum
Without even clicking I guessed Grand Rapids would be close to the top of this
list.

The job market here has been fantastic, there is a great metro life to be had,
housing is decent, plus the country and small towns around it are easy to
commute from. 20-25 minutes to a Great Lake, fantastic beaches, even better
beer. Grand Rapids is a fantastic place to call home.

~~~
mingmecca
True. Except! The bone chilling winters and lake effect snow that accumulates
into multiple feet. I remember one winter years ago where, when visiting my
girlfriend, the wind-chill temp was 45 below zero and our cars were encased in
ice an inch thick.

That being said, I'm from Detroit but if I had to live in Michigan again I'd
be in GR.

