
Ask HN: Are open vacation policies a scam? - somenomadicguy
I&#x27;m working at a company with lots of dot-commie perks including an open vacation policy. It seemed great on paper when I joined, I actually took a 40% salary cut for the promise of more vacation and freedom to live abroad and work from everywhere.<p>At my company, however, it&#x27;s feeling like just another typical silicon valley sweat shop. Nobody who isn&#x27;t an executive seems to take any vacation days. For the most part &quot;unlimited vacation&quot; means being able to work from home because you have errands to run or you broke your ankle.<p>Every attempt I&#x27;ve made to take vacation days has been met with the resistance of, &quot;You have taken more vacation than anybody else in the team&quot;.  
I&#x27;ve taken 4 days off for vacation, and 2.5 days off to ease the jetlag when I flew home to Turkey from San  Francisco.<p>Recently I tried to take off 1&#x2F;2 a day for my birthday, and I again was given this same argument. I politely reminded my boss that I make $50k&#x2F;year less than anybody else in our engineering team, and that we have an open vacation policy.<p>After that conversation I began looking for a new position.<p>I&#x27;m curious, what are your experiences with companies who have open vacation policies? Are you &quot;allowed&quot; to take vacation days, or does it just feel like a scam to prevent you from actually taking time off?
======
fredleblanc
Unlimited vacation isn't necessarily a scam, but I've rarely seen it work
well. The one is exception is one of my current clients. In the four years
I've been working with them, I've seen people come in late, leave early, and
disappear for a week or two at a time, and I've never heard _anyone_ ever
complain about it. It works for them.

But, in Massachusetts at least, when you leave your job, any vacation time
that you've accrued is owed to you in dollars. With unlimited vacation, that
means that you get nothing (since unlimited isn't something you accrue, it
just exists).

In my experience with a couple of web jobs, even with non-unlimited vacation
I've always been met with resistance trying to take time off. It was worse in
companies where we "weren't a company, we were a family" type places. Guilt
trips about saddling others with works, etc., when really it was poor
scheduling and planning for 100% efficiency.

So: not a scam in a binary sense, in the way that the lottery actually will
make you rich if you're lucky. I wouldn't count on it though.

------
kasey_junk
They are not a scam, they are an accounting feature.

Your problem is not that you have unlimited vacation, it's that you are
working for a company that is taking advantage of you. They could (& probably
would) do the same thing with limited vacation policies.

Leave as fast as you can and let your peers know why you did it.

~~~
somenomadicguy
I definitely agree with you here. I worked for Nokia a few years ago, and
traded $20k in salary in exchange for 3.5 weeks of guaranteed vacation. When I
went to take my 11th day of vacation, they refused to honor my offer letter,
so I said goodbye to my coworkers in that afternoon's stand-up, and found a
better job.

~~~
origami777
If we all acted like that then maybe companies wouldn't try to pull those
stunts. Bravo to you.

~~~
Someone1234
Unfortunately there's always more starry eyed college grads who will happily
let themselves get steamrolled. Heck Silicon Valley is virtually built on that
kind of abuse relationship.

------
borplk
Yes they are scams.

Next time they offer you "unlimited" vacation say that's very generous of them
but you don't need unlimited vacation days you know exactly how many vacation
days you need and that's 28 days.

If they don't reject it straight up they might try to haggle over that which
proves the point.

~~~
xeniak
While 28 days is at the high end, almost all developed countries (UK, AU, FR,
etc.) require employers to provide 4+ weeks per year paid holiday leave.

Bigger companies will even force you to take it once you've accrued a number
of hours, as it can be a liability on the books (as unused holidays roll over
indefinitely).

The US is an outlier in this regard.

~~~
massysett
Compared to "unlimited" 28 days is not much at all.

~~~
AstralStorm
Except it is not unlimited, but instead undisclosed limit, discretionary. In
other words, the contract is lying or you haven't read it.

Being fired over taking too much vacation time given the mentioned policy is
potentially lawyer fodder.

~~~
pkinsky
They'd probably just fire you for 'not being a culture fit' or similar.

------
dalke
You may want to read "The limits of “unlimited” vacation" by Jacob Kaplan-Moss
at [https://jacobian.org/writing/unlimited-
vacation/](https://jacobian.org/writing/unlimited-vacation/) as well as
previous HN comments about that essay at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7613526](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7613526)
.

There have been other related HN discussions on the topic, at
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=unlimited%20vacation&sort=byPo...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=unlimited%20vacation&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)
. For example, the top comment at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5125973](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5125973)
is:

> "Unlimited vacation" translates to "no vacation" ... Unlimited vacation
> sounds nice, but in practice it doesn't work.

------
artpi
I work in Automattic. I had taken approx. 21 days of vacation so far this
year. I intend to take another ~20 this year.

I actually feel lazy because of this, so when I do work, I try to really
focus. The result is, in one day I can accomplish what took me a week in
previous job. Mostly, because nobody is interrupting me ( we don't have an
office )

We are hiring, here is my experience:
[https://piszek.com/2016/04/05/automattic/](https://piszek.com/2016/04/05/automattic/)

~~~
emilburzo
So let me get this straight: they ignored your resume, ignored your real life
ping for feedback on your resume and only got the ball rolling after you
scored very high on a coding competition you weren't supposed to take?

I understand they probably get a ton of applicants, especially with all the
praise for work/life balance, but what chance does someone have at applying
and actually being seen without any special circumstances?

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, it's just that as someone
currently looking for remote work, it's a bit depressing.

~~~
artpi
Nicely rummarized! :D

I actually see people get hired much faster than I was. I may have been a
crappy candidate. Also, I was applying in a moment when people were seriously
overloaded, so thats why I needed to wait.

But it sure is a lenghtier process then in traditional company!

------
cyberferret
I recently wrote a blog post about annual leave (vacation) entitlements around
the world. [1]

I cannot believe that the US does not have a federal legislation on annual
holidays, but instead leaves it up to the employers to negotiate that with
their employees.

My wife once applied for a remote working position with a quote famous US
company that actually wrote a book on remote working. They offered her a
'generous' 10 days vacation a year. Here in Australia, full time worker are by
law to get 20 days annual leave and 10 days fully paid public holiday leave
per year as a minimum.

My feeling is that if there is no minimum quota set, then it is open to
pressure from above to ignore and abuse it.

My tip? Move to Iran or Cambodia ;) [1]

[1] - [http://blog.hrpartner.io/holiday-leave-around-the-
world/](http://blog.hrpartner.io/holiday-leave-around-the-world/)

~~~
thearn4
> I cannot believe that the US does not have a federal legislation on annual
> holidays, but instead leaves it up to the employers to negotiate that with
> their employees.

It's odd considering US federal employees have leave policies that most
closely resemble what you see in the rest of the developed world. It's the
private sector that seems to be in a race to the bottom in the last few
decades.

~~~
zacharycohn
Federal employees accrue 4 hours of paid annual leave per pay period (two
weeks) for their first six years of federal service. That comes out to
thirteen days a year.

After six years, it becomes six hours a pay period. After I think fifteen or
seventeen years, it becomes 8 hours.

So while federal leave maxes out close to what the rest of the world has, it
takes a long time to get there.

~~~
thearn4
True, but I think a key thing for us is that annual leave (which has a carry-
over cap) is accrued separately from sick leave (which has no cap). That is,
our annual leave is actual bonafide vacation time. In many workplaces in the
U.S., employees have no paid sick leave at all.

~~~
bbcbasic
That's also by law in Australia. Ten days sick leave. Twenty annual leave.

------
hijinks
The place you are working at is just bad. I've worked for a lot of great
unlimited vacation companies. As long as you get your work done no one cared.

On a side note, I've always hated unlimited vacation. I almost think companies
put it in place so they don't have to pay out unused vacation time when you
leave.

~~~
manyxcxi
That's probably 99.9% of the reason, but it doesn't matter if the employee
sees a benefit from the offering.

------
cauterized
Like so many things, it comes down to culture. If you're offered a job
somewhere with an unlimited vacation policy, before accepting ALWAYS ask at
least two different people how much vacation most people take.

I've worked at unlimited vacation companies where nobody took more than a week
per year and others where most people took at least four weeks (generally non-
consecutive).

I've also worked twice at places with finite vacation policies where as long
as you were responsible and productive they'd let it slide (or wouldn't even
count) if you took a few extra days here and there.

I've also had friends who worked for large companies and got four weeks of
vacation tell me they couldn't take more than a couple sick days per year
anyway because their boss had to approve vacation dates. Any date they
proposed was denied because the "timing" was "bad" for their projects.

Pick your employer for its culture, not its official vacation policy.

~~~
shostack
Sounds like this could be screened for by asking multiple people about average
vacation time taken and then asking the boss if they've ever denied a vacation
request?

------
ck425
My company has quite a good policy:

\- 29 days a year (fairly standard in the uk, legally required to have at
least 28) \- No formal approval needed. (Check with your team etc) \- Can buy
up to 12 days extra a year IIRC for the cost of a days salary.

The no formal approval is especially nice, I take a long weekend short notice
a couple of times a year during busy periods (busy in my life not work that
is) and it's fine 95% of the time, and when it's not it always for good
reason.

Being able to buy extra holiday is good too. There's salary sacrifice to do so
so it's considered fair to everyone.

~~~
csorrell
Framing unpaid days off as "buying an extra holiday for the cost of a days
salary," feels depressing to me. I would personally have a hard time working
for an employer that used this kind of language around their time off
policies. I already own my time. If I don't work for a day I'm not buying time
back from my employer, I'm just not selling it for a day.

~~~
ck425
That was my own wording of the policy, I'm not sure what the actual policy is.
Unpaid leave isn't a legal right, atleast not in the uk, so offering up to 12
days as you like seems like a good deal to me.

~~~
guitarbill
Oh yes. Even though buying extra is effectively unpaid leave in most cases, it
has so many advantages AFAIK. It's far less hassle with HR/managers. It's
really useful if you're getting married or have a big trip planned. Both of
these kind of boil down to that it looks way more professional to declare how
much holiday you plan on taking at the start of the year.

Finally, depending on the way it's taxed, declaring it at the start of the
year means it gets factored in to the monthly tax, and you don't need to get a
rebate later.

------
zorked
Pretty much yes. Wake me up when some company announces you have 25 mandatory
days off a year + unlimited extra days. Then we start to talk.

Also please post your experience on Glassdoor.

~~~
tedmiston
Mandatory vacation is an emerging trend in tech, you just won't see it at
startups.

~~~
Silhouette
...in the US.

As others have noted, almost everywhere else in the first world not only
expects but legally requires far more vacation time than many US firms offer
their employees.

~~~
tedmiston
Good qualifier.

I spent some time earlier this year scoping out the tech scene in Wellington,
New Zealand and Melbourne, Australia because both have so much more emphasis
on living a good life. I wasn't able to find much startup activity in those
two cities. I'm not sure if it doesn't exist or if I was looking in the wrong
neighborhoods.

~~~
guitarbill
Was looking in Melbourne also, but there doesn't seem to be that many online
postings for such a big city. Did you look in Sydney and if so, was there
more?

~~~
tedmiston
I didn't look in Sydney, but only because I haven't been there yet.

------
codegeek
Open vacation policies don't work because it becomes difficult for a person to
actually take a specific number of days without worrying about what others
will think. If I could come up with a vacation policy, here is what I will do:

\- Fix a "Minimum" number of vacation days that everyone can take. Encourage
everyone to take those days split over the year. This can be 20, 30, 40
whatever depending on what you come up with for your company. But anything
less than 20 business days for me is crap.

\- Unlimited sick days. Yes, I will know if you try to abuse it. But if you
are genuinely sick, stay home.

\- Add another 5 personal days. Use this for running errands, voting, kids
days off whatever.

\- Flexible work routine. I am not completely into 100% remote as I do think
there is a value in collaborating in person or show your face once in a while.
So I will say flexible 2 days WFH allowed depending on team, project and other
relevant situations.

I would take these over a BS "unlimited" vacation.

~~~
scarface74
Why separate vacation days/sick days/personal days? Why not just one bucket? I
would much rather have X number of PTO days. If you are sick and have PTO days
you have to use those first, but not dock your pay for sick days after that or
a personal half day personal errand. This would work well for most salaried
professionals.

In the U.S. if you are salaried, your pay cannot be docked for any week you
worked anyway -- except for very specific reasons -- and I've never heard of
company that would dock a salaried person's pay if they actually did call in
sick or have an emergency and they used all of their sick time.

[https://www.tracksmart.com/Advice-Center/Pages/payroll-
benef...](https://www.tracksmart.com/Advice-Center/Pages/payroll-
benefits/docking-employee-pay.aspx)

~~~
cauterized
Because if taking a sick day cuts into vacation time, it incentivizes people
to come into work when they've got the flu and get everyone else sick too.
Which is worse for the company than just granting a few sick days without
affecting vacation time.

~~~
scarface74
That's a valid point. I'm thinking inside my own bubble where there is a
distinction between "being contagious but still feeling well enough work" and
"being too sick to work". In the former case, I would work from home and in
the latter I would have to take a PTO. I guess the one big bucket works better
for people in professions where they don't have to be in the office.

------
mike-cardwell
I get 25 plus bank holidays here in the UK. I got 30 plus bank holidays at a
previous job. Everyone takes all of the available days and nobody questions
it. I've started to see adverts for unlimited leave here too now. Would be
interested how that plays out. I'd want to be taking at least 40 days plus
bank holidays if I were to accept such a job. The lack of time off you get in
the US is insane. It is the only absolute stopper for me to even consider
moving there to work.

------
romanovcode
You are scammed and being used.

Taking 6.5 days off and 1/2 day off on your birthday sounds completely
reasonable for every company with no "unlimited vacation". Do you have
"unlimited vacation" written in your contract?

------
bigredtech
Your company does not have unlimited vacation based on how you have described
the situation. It's unclear to us how much time you've been with the company.
Let's say you've been there just 1 month and didn't mention upfront you'd be
taking those 6.5 days off, then that feels like minor abuse of the policy on
your end. Let's say you've been there a "significant" period of time of > 3-4
months, then they are shafting you.

In my experience unlimited vacation is only as unlimited as the person asking
for it. Many people are too timid to actually ask for the days off. It seems
like you've already done the asking, and this is more of a company culture
problem and you are right to consider leaving or having a frank talk with your
supervisor about what unlimited means. Perhaps you can change it to be 5 weeks
a year with them and they'll feel better with a bounded number for you and
you'll feel better being able to take off when you want.

Recently interviewed someone and was mentioning the work/life balance and
unlimited vacation and their response was "Come on...unlimited vacation is a
scam" I then explained that I had already taken off about 3 weeks this year
with another 3 planned, and that it's "unlimited" if you ask for it. Maybe my
situation is unique, or maybe people are too timid, I'm not sure. I'm glad I'm
working at a place where taking vacation is part of the culture for long term
success.

I'd also encourage anyone interviewing with a company that has unlimited
vacation to talk to a non C-Level or founder employee about what vacation
they've taken so far this year and their opinion of how well the unlimited
policy works at their company - hopefully you can get a straight answer as
this is just as important as monetary compensation.

------
mrfusion
Peoples answers here are good. Just to add you also want to watched out for
pooled sick vacation leave. It incentives people to come in when you're sick
and spread colds, norovirus, flus.

~~~
AstralStorm
Worst kind of policy. It does not even work in the short term if you count the
productivity lost in the whole team later. Long term, it can make people
chronically ill.

------
nappy-doo
If it's unlimited, show up the first day, and then go on vacation. When you no
longer get a pay check, you know how "unlimited" it was.

~~~
tedmiston
It's almost always unlimited "with approval from your manager".

------
alexhawdon
As has been noted elsewhere, 'unlimited vacation' is usually at best an
aspiration, at worst a scam.

Has anybody tried asking up front what the average number of days actually
taken is? And if you asked and then took the job - were they telling the
truth?

~~~
shostack
Yes and yes.

The theme in the comments here seem to show that this policy, like other
tools, can be easily abused.

At the right company it is freeing. For example, my productivity doesn't fit
nicely within the box of the standard work week. So if I'm not feeling like I
can get anything worthwhile done, I might take a day to recharge the
batteries. Need to stay home for a contractor? No problem. Need time off to
travel? Awesome.

The challenge is there is this nagging feeling of taking advantage of things
that was instilled in me from working at shitty companies in a service
industry notorious for bad hours (ad agencies) most of my career. That said,
I've heard that mandatory time off is now on the table to help alleviate some
of this "guilt" myself and others feel.

I fully recognize my experience is not the norm. It is also very hard to
screen for companies that actually stand behind their policy. I had a hard
time convincing a candidate I was trying to hire that it was in fact as good
as it sounded and we were not lying. Hard to do when so many people are
scarred from shitty experiences.

------
rfc
Sorry you've had such a bad experience. My experience varies as others have
mentioned in the thread.

I've worked at companies where we had accrued days off and it was a nightmare.
Any time we took vacation was met with scrutiny.

I've also worked with unlimited vacations companies as well. A past employer
made you feel quite crappy about taking vacation days.

That said, I've worked for two companies (including my current) who have
unlimited vacation and stay true to it. My current company gives me quite a
bit of freedom. Being a manager, I personally make sure that my colleagues
take time off. I currently have an engineer who is on a 10 day vacation in
which we highly encouraged him to not check email, jira, or anything else.

I think it really depends on the company, the stage they're at (small, medium,
etc.), and the growth they're experiencing. The two companies I worked at
where it was not a problem were both stable companies growing at a modest rate
and were larger in size. IMO, this helps spread around the workload better
when employees take vacation. At smaller companies, since most are wearing
multiple hats, it makes it harder to lose someone for a few days.

------
crdoconnor
There needs to be a website listing companies that have "unlimited vacation"
with a place for people to submit average number of days taken.

~~~
tedmiston
This is a great idea.

------
scrabble
I don't think all unlimited vacation policies are scams. At my office we get
told we need to take more vacation if we don't take at least 3 weeks. And I
have never once seen a vacation request denied.

It sounds like you've got a job where they are using unlimited vacation as a
way to limit vacation even further instead of using it to promote a great work
life balance.

~~~
somenomadicguy
<3 Are you hiring for remote DevOps engineers? I'm cheap, and have 20+ years
experience.

~~~
Fargren
My two cents: don't say you are cheap (even if you are). It makes it sound
like you are not worth a lot. The employers that are willing to hire you
because you said you are cheap are mostly the kind that will scam you with
stuff like open vacation policies.

~~~
somenomadicguy
Perhaps, but I spent most of my career heavily negotiating for high salaries
which set impossibly high expectations. I've been working in IT in one form or
another since I was 12, and I just no longer have the will or the energy to
perform at a super senior level. I just want to live my life in Europe, make
enough money to support my daughter and have some adventures, and deliver at a
level that doesn't require 60 hour weeks or soul-crushing stress.

~~~
Fargren
Hey, be cheap, don't waste effort on negotiation if you are ok with less
money! I think that's totally reasonable. Just don't broadcast it that way. It
attracts the wrong kind of attention.

~~~
somenomadicguy
Yes, I do see what you mean. I guess I look at it as a white male
statistically I'm far more likely to oversell myself, and I've certainly done
that before. Now I might overcompensate for that. I would much rather set
low/mid-level expectations, than sell myself as a "rockstar" (god I hate that
term) and set myself up for burn-out.

Being cheap is funny. In San Francisco at my last job I was around $175k
before the expected bonuses which never materialized, as they tend not to @
start-ups. To no avail I tried hard to sell myself on "$100k and I only work 9
months per year", but there's such a false notion that "bodies in the seat
mean productivity". I ended up finding a gig around $110k, which provides me a
_far_ better lifestyle in the cheaper part of the Balkans/Near-East than I
could afford in any US city where I would want to live.

This is part of the problem: golden handcuffs.

------
TeeWEE
"Unlimited vacation holidays" Just doesnt work well. Most people dont know how
much they should get, and are looking at co-workers. In the end nobody takes
holidays... I would just leave work and mention the 'unlimted holidays' in
your contract (I hope it is in there). Greetings

------
blisterpeanuts
What a silly company. Quit.

One consultancy I worked for had a nice policy: 30 combined
sick/holiday/vacation days off per year. If you never got sick, great. If you
needed a personal day, take it. If you didn't mind coming in on Memorial Day,
that's one more day to use later.

~~~
jrjarrett
This is a really AWFUL policy. I recently started a new job that has this same
policy and I am struggling whether to stay. Everything else is great. However,
in 27 years of working, I've never had to worry about sick time.

Now, I am afraid to take ETO time as vacation because what happens if I get
sick? I had a coworker come in with walking pneumonia because he was running
short on ETO.

NOT having separated sick time is bad because you can't plan when to take
vacation time because of the unknown, and you're going to show up to the
office and spread your viruses because you can't take a day to rest and
recover.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Maybe just do what we did: reserve ten days out of your 30 for sickness?

The point of the policy is that you're responsible for budgeting your own
time. If you need less sick leave, take less sick leave. If you need more,
take more.

If you're a sickly type, you might want to buy a disability policy of some
sort that supports you for weeks or months.

------
mbrock
Tell your boss he's a liar, name the company, and get out, is what I'd like to
suggest.

~~~
somenomadicguy
I'll write about this after I've secured new work. Sadly they know I'm stuck
there because it took me a year to find a DevOps position which would allow me
to work from outside the United States.

~~~
dredmorbius
You've got considerably more leverage whilst working. Pity you'll be taking
vacation days to job-hunt. Build in some pre-start leave with your new
employer.

------
zhte415
Your setup appears to be an hour focused culture, not a goal focused culture.

They may be a bit schizophrenic about this, and promise nice leave based on
hours put in and when an often non-expressed goal in not met (indeed, not
formalised internally) is not met get very managerial, imagining management,
especially hours focused culture, is leadership.

If they're not letting you take leave on your birthday, hell I give that day
off for anyone if they ask for it or not, then they're an hours focused
culture faking a goal focused one.

You're right to get out.

~~~
somenomadicguy
It's funny you should mention this. We just started tracking the time to
completion of all zendesk tickets (everything we do is ticket-based) to
deliver weekly reports to $uppermgmt.

Sigh, yeah, it's a sinking ship. Sadly. My team is the best team I've ever
worked with, and my boss is the only boss I was ever excited to work for. I
Don't blame him, though, his hands are just tied now that the penny pinchers
run the show.

------
IgorPartola
Any time something is sold to you as unlimited, you should do a
s/unlimited/secretly limited/g. Data plans, storage, vacation days, tap water,
etc. You can't hold them responsible when any of these are suddenly cut off
because of excessive usage, but they can always invoke some form of fair usage
policy and you don't have a contract to back it up.

------
probinso
Open vacation means that you should definitely take vacation. Normally when
you leave a company, they have to pay out your vacation time. This is great
for companies or fields that turn employees quickly (like a lot of these tech
companies).

If you don't take the time it takes to feel comfortable with not getting that
closing payout, then you are compromising your value.

------
igf
I don't know whether they're typically introduced with malign intent, or with
good intentions that inevitably go bad, but I don't really think it matters
much -- open vacation policies are a terrible idea from the employee's point
of view... and in the end probably a terrible idea from the employer's point
of view too.

------
thearn4
I like having accrued annual leave and sick leave for the exact reason that
they are tangible numbers that I can reasonably say I own. If it was
"unlimited" as you say, it seems more like the company or team owns them, and
your expected to conform to expectations on their limited use.

------
chillydawg
I considered offering it at my company, but decided against and went for a
fixed policy where we encourage our team to take all the days. Open policies
are pretty much always a scam. What boss is actually going to be happy letting
you take 60 days off a year?

------
dczmer
i wouldn't trade salary for it. i don't think it's a scam but i wouldn't be
surprised to find some employers use it to take advantage of workers.

at my shop we are encouraged to take as much time as we need and managers even
regularly encourage us to take more time off.

sometimes i feel like it's a trick and i don't take as much time off as most
people do. they do track how many days you take off but you can come in late
whenever you want and use 1/2 day pto if you don't want to stay late. or, if
it's nice outside, take a personal day for the hell of it.

the only consideration is we have to be sure to have someone covering any
ongoing work so we still meet deadlines.

------
brianwawok
Yes a scam. We should have minimum vacation days not maximum or unlimited.

------
willypimpernel
Has anyone here applied for an unlimited holiday job and told them when
accepting that you plan to take 40 days (or whatever) off? I'd be interested
to know how they responded.

------
informatimago
Yes, there's always quite a difference between the showcase and the
backoffice.

------
petervandijck
Yes it's just a scam.

------
bbcbasic
Sorry sounds like you were scammed. I don't think that is too strong a word.

There is a conflict between what they like to offer to attract talent vs. what
they offer culturally. I have not experience unlimited vacation, but at my
limited vacation shop I just took 6 weeks off (on the last week now) albeit
some was unpaid, but I am getting market rate so that has to be a better
situation.

A good way to get a lot of vacation is to take breaks between jobs and make
sure the jobs are paying you what you are worth.

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andrewclunn
Take the job. Work for six months, then take vacation until you're let go.

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joesmo
Are people at the company actually taking at least 3 weeks of vacation every
year? No? It's a fucking scam. This test works every single time.

