
Ask HN: Starting over after business failure - throes_death
I&#x27;m a little burnt out after my business failed after 4 years of hard graft. I&#x27;m looking for a new online opportunity but feel as if I&#x27;ve run out of ideas, problems and general creativity.<p>I&#x27;m not sure how to start again. Any advice?
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legitster
Work a job as normal and boring as you can find. Boring is, boring. But
boredom is a good way to build up energy for a future run at a startup.

Also, one thing you lose working in a startup for a long period of time is
perspective on what "normal" problems are. Which is why so many startups look
like they only target other startups. The best ideas come from working in an
industry long enough to understand the specifics about a problem, how to solve
it, and who would buy it.

~~~
endymi0n
Big +1 here from my side, and here's a bit of scientific background:
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-
seek/201407...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-
seek/201407/the-surprising-benefits-boredom)

Some of my anecdotal evidence: Left an exploded and then imploded startup
(where I was one of the first employees), completely burned out and was
approached by a guy for a startup.

Sounded good, but my creative energy was gone and my wife told me to go to
hell if I wanted to start a company with a newborn on the way.

Went to a super boring corporate job instead that had three big benefits:

1) Nice and cushy 9 to 5 with great money to lick my wounds

2) As OP said: Energy came back and I realigned with normal people and normal
problems

3) I left after 11 months with a nice bore-out and so many great examples of
what not to do in a company that it had my fire lighted and ready to go.

Turned out the guy who wanted me for the startup had waited for me and
together we built the largest streaming search engine worldwide over the past
5 years.

That in turn was a serious roller coaster ride with its own story again, but
that wasn't your question, right? :)

~~~
nefitty
JustWatch has been such a game changer for me! Really awesome job. Great UI,
intuitive layout, responsive. You guys must be getting a barrage of well
deserved traffic lately.

------
startupnthrow
What you are experiencing is absolutely normal. You worked on the best idea
and you worked it hard. You even delivered revenue from customers and maybe
you successfully raised some investor money. However, 4 years later, you're
the end of the road. You are hungry for a new idea because you have built up a
unique set of entrepreneurial skills that you want to keep using. You're a
professional high-energy operator who builds and executes. However, you don't
have anything as good as the last business because starting is hard. You know
that a startup requires commitment and conviction. However, to get that fire
again, for a new business, is a drag. Your startup left you out of commitment
and conviction for your industry and with even less fight in your spirit for
another run.

My advice: Go back to the scene of the crime and open up an investigation
while the trail is still warm and you have some consulting gig to keep cash in
your pocket.

Your startup worked for 4 years. I would recommend you go back to your
industry and meditate on why you were convicted and why you were committed.
Why did you succeed? What did you do better than the competition? Why did you
stop succeeding? What about your customers you really loved? Which customers
did you really hate? What was the magic of the business that others couldn't
repeat as easily as you. In those answers may possibly lie the new startup
that you want to launch that will CRUSH the COMPETITION. In a careful poring
of the 4 years are the seeds for a new and possibly even more successful
company. Take your time because looking at the failure will be painful.

~~~
throes_death
Thanks. TBH I think the niche was to small, the problem was too hard, the
solution was too complex, the audience was too hard to connect with.

The niche can be served but I'm not sure it can be served and make a living
from it. There are other competitors (without our USPs) but they're backed by
universities so it's not clear if they're "stand alone" viable either. Thanks
for your advice!

------
bramkrom
Some people have given solid advice here on financial restrictions, so will
focus on the 'fire for building' part.

Recently listened to a podcast of Tim Ferris, where he interviewed Tony Fadell
- who built the iPod, iPhone and Nest. In it, he makes a serious case for
getting bored. He explains how he uses it to drive new ideas, such as how it
helped him get the clarity of mind to get the idea of Nest, and how afterwards
he's done the research for his current problem - one of plastics.

"Get the time to get bored. Spend three, six months if you can, or at least
two or three weeks outside of that. Get bored. Just put away all of your
things. Maybe go clean up the garage or whatever it is. Right? Through that,
you’re going to start to think differently. You’re going to act slightly
differently and your mind might open up to other sources of inspiration, other
problems, other things where you start to go, “Oh, now I see differently.” I’m
not just going to go run to the competitor because I understand the space and
run to the competitor and go work for them because they’re going to give me a
better job. But I want to go do a whole different thing that I want to learn
about that’s going to challenge me so I’m not just checking in every day and
doing my work, but I’m actually growing through that."

Listen to it here: [https://tim.blog/2019/12/23/tony-
fadell/](https://tim.blog/2019/12/23/tony-fadell/)

~~~
pgt
An important aspect of fostering boredom is avoiding gratification like
Netflix or Twitter (which I am hugely guilty of).

~~~
metal13
Underrated comment. Those things are great, but when your minds' entertainment
comes from outside, you never rebuild the creative muscle.

~~~
endymi0n
Playing a game or watching a movie feels good — but at the same time, you're
living someone elses' dreams. All this dopamine, all this adrenaline will feel
so good and make you tired just enough to conveniently forget about your own.

~~~
ilrwbwrkhv
what about reading books? either fiction or non fiction?

~~~
daseiner1
the distinguishing benefit of reading, particularly more challenging works (of
any genre), is improved reading comprehension and likely improved written
ability as well, skills that have immense value in day-to-day life. Arguably
video games and movies don’t have the same trickle over benefits. That being
said I have an immense respect for the value of film and I imagine video games
have certain benefits as well.

------
predictmktegirl
After I exited my last business, it took me 3 years to finally get up to
feeling ready again. I also went to a dark place for a while. My best advice
is to keep your head up and think more about the present than the future, at
least for a little while. Keep yourself busy and avoid things that feel too
cumbersome or dreadful. Exercise and treat your body well.

In between battling depression and anxiety over the years, I started doodling
things again. Those doodles turned into thought experiments, into reading
research papers, into connecting into a new field. I'm feeling more energized
these days about starting something new, and more excited about working on a
startup again.

I wish there was some way I could have avoided falling into the emotional
abyss and spending so many years there. Maybe I should have focused on
building more friendships over the years instead of being a loner. You really
start to take for granted such things until the isolation of failure sinks in.
Hopefully this time I will find a co-founder willing to go to felt with me.
I'm not sure I can endure another solo fail.

~~~
pm
What field did you come from and what did you end up going into?

~~~
predictmktegirl
Well I am still in computer engineering, but I've always considered that
engineers always have a "minor" in whatever discipline in which they are
working. Of course you can be a generalist web-dev; however, anything more
interesting usually requires specialization into either a technology or
domain.

To answer your question, I used to be an engineer more focused on front-end
work, UX, and design. These days, I've gone back to my educational roots in
economics and mathematics and moved more towards ML and prediction markets.

------
throwaway68102
I've been through a handful of ventures in the past few years with ultimately
no lasting success. Some made money in certain periods, but ultimately they
failed, with the thousands of hours and many thousands of dollars invested in
these ventures now "down the drain".

The only thing we can keep doing is pushing forward. Failure must be seen as a
learning opportunity, not a failure of intellect or similar.

With that said, if you are experiencing emotional side-effects, which are
completely normal from my POV (I've certainly had them), I urge you to
consider your mental health, nonetheless your overall health. Success and
money do not mean a thing if you cannot get out of your bed or house every
day, or if you've frayed all relationships (whether familial, friendships,
etc.) while working as hard as we're told to as entrepreneurs.

------
optemization
I failed a business after nearly three years. I thought that it was a great
idea and invested $50,000 of my father's money. I got lucky in many ways
because I started it in college and didn't have rent or family matters on the
line. That said, closing it down really sucked. I feel like there are still
some loose threads between myself and teammates — we never closed the loop on
some things, so make sure you do that. Otherwise, it will bother you for a
long time.

To bounce back, I focused on the opportunities that this experience has
instead brought me. I realized that I got deeply involved with the
entrepreneurship community on campus. I channeled all my energy to help others
start companies and avoid the mistakes that I have done. This, in turn, led to
more work opportunities at accelerators and organizations that support
startups.

After working for about a year I gained new perspectives and experiences which
pointed me to a new idea that I am currently pursuing. The "circle of startup"
if you will :)

One of the best frameworks that starting my first company helped me develop is
finding "problem/solution fit". Of course, that depends on your past business
and experience. Personally, I became more sensitive to noticing problems and
realizing that I could solve them with technology.

------
throwawayfail
Serial fail-er here.

Start consulting with companies that have made it a little further down the
road and learn from them.

Remember that not everyone has solved the same set of problems.

Find companies that have problems that you already solved with your business,
and help that company by applying what you've learned.

They'll benefit from your experience and fresh approach, and you'll see what
you can do with a different set of tools (more capital, better product, better
team, etc.)

After working with a few companies for a few quarters, you might have a fresh
outlook on whether to solve a new problem or join an established company.

------
websitescenes
I went through this recently and have come out the other side with a
successful new venture. It took some self reflection, humility and creativity
to get here.

What did it for me was putting aside my ego and realizing that maybe my ideas
weren’t the pinnacle of human thought. Up until this point I had been building
what I wanted, believing that as an engineer I knew better than everyone else
and therefore what they needed and should want. I think Silicon Valley and VCs
have this problem in general and this is why most of them fail.

It wasn’t until I immersed myself into searching, networking and
communicating, that I finally understood that there is a huge divide between
what people need and what engineers think they need.

With that said, my suggestion would be to network with people outside of your
normal circle and find someone or a business that is doing remarkably well
without engineering or automation. Figure out how to pitch the bigger picture
to them and co-opt them into a new venture. Their idea is already working with
manual, redundant workflows. Imagine what you could do together to make the
business scalable.

~~~
throes_death
Thanks for your advice. Your suggestion re: success businesses with manual,
redundant workflows is great food for thought!

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Ididntdothis
It depends on your financial situation. If you can afford it, take some time
off and forget about the whole thing. If you need money, I would either get a
steady job or a contracting position to reestablish a stable financial
situation. It’s hard to think straight while being broke.

~~~
throes_death
Thanks. I do need to forget about things but I also feel I need to feel as if
I've earnt a paycheck. Does that make sense? I have not "won any bread" for
the last 4 years and even some casual hours doing unskilled labor, I think,
might make me feel energized.

~~~
Ididntdothis
I totally understand. Personally I would do some contracting. Having somebody
tell you what to do and making some money without much stress can be good for
the soul for a while.

~~~
literallycancer
I would expect contractors to be let go and/or contracts not refreshed at the
nearest decision point at nearly all companies.

------
throwaway875u58
This was me a few years ago. My end goal was to build up savings in the 3-5
year time frame.

My off-ramp was to:

1) Take on consulting clients

This allowed for a shift in day to day/finding an alternate source of income
asap. Depending on opportunities available, you might want to skip this step.

2) Identify interesting startups in the area + get a software dev job.

This allowed me to hone up my rustier coding skills and make good money
without needing to worry about clients/big picture deliverables.

3) After 1 year, move to FANG.

I needed a year to get back into the IC mindset and skillset at a level where
I could be hired as a senior/principle level at FANG.

~~~
rhlsthrm
What's the best way to get consulting clients? I want to start building a
pipeline now in case I end up in a similar situation.

~~~
optemization
I just started actively consulting two months ago. So far, 8 projects and five
clients.

Before doing this, I built a pretty strong startup network in New York City.
Through starting a company and running an entrepreneurship club at New York
Univesity, I got to know a lot of relevant people on the scene. entrepreneurs,
investors and community builders. Once I was sharing with people that I was
working on. I got introductions to potential clients. My biggest client right
now is a person whom I knew from the first year at the University.

If you are good at hosting events or bringing up ir target audience together,
I would suggest looking into that.

------
contingencies
_A penny saved is a penny earned._

Instead of focusing on making more money, focus on spending less. This reduces
pressure, increases health and time to think and be creative. In my adult life
I have spent years in low expense scenarios learning and creating. Forget the
herd, do what you want to do. Move to a cheap place (avoid anywhere with a
'digital nomad' community) and go swimming, surfing, rock-climbing or cycling
every day. Even if you have zero savings one remote gig or an occasional bout
of local work will keep you going.

~~~
nudpiedo
Can you elaborate more the "avoid anywhere with a 'digital nomad' community"?
Isn't that supposed to be a positive network or alike people/entrepreneurs?
How do you keep your networking/customers/support network in an isolated cheap
area?

~~~
contingencies
I often build something that takes time _before_ taking customers. Doing this
in an isolated location keeps costs down, assists focus and allows free
intellectual exploration without outside influence.

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toyg
I’ve just pulled the plug on my business, and now I’m moving sideways - back
to regular employment but in a role that’s pretty different from what I’ve
done for the last 15 years. Hopefully that will recharge my batteries, and
then in a couple of years I might be ready to try again.

------
canvasduck
I took a job at a small startup for a year. It was healthy for a number of
reasons -stable pay, rebuild savings -catching up on new tech I had missed
while being heads down -larger teams, more socialization I had missed -time
and space to decompress and process what I have learned

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throw03172019
I wish I took some time off in between startups. I’d suggest taking some time
off to clear your mind and rejuvenate. If you have the ability, traveling can
help (although this is tough now with the virus outbreak).

~~~
kweks
Definitely this. I have lived through two (one major) restarts.

Be gentle to yourself. You probably will need longer to recovery emotionally
than financially.

Let the process take its time. If you're unsteady emotionally or under
pressure (need to make a business to regain income) it is very difficult to
make pragmatic decisions.

Good luck.

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xwdv
Just work a regular full time job for a while. No shame in it. And if you
absolutely can’t get past the idea of being employed for a steady paycheck,
then just think of it as a way to raise cash for your next venture when you
get a good idea.

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flyinglizard
Don’t jump into startups right away. Find a company to work for, preferably
one which is interesting and positive (not just any stable BigCo but not
someone else’s 4 people startup either). Do that without imposing any time
limit - when you’re mentally ready, the startup bug will bite. That time
you’ll be better all around.

------
jbob2000
Go work for a big company. The work is slower and you can take a break.

Big companies also mean big opportunities. And you don’t get to see what these
opportunities are unless you’re on the inside. You will find some inspiration
there for a great B2B company and you can leverage the connections you make
there to make it happen.

~~~
itake
All the big companies are freezing hiring. This doesn't seem like practical
advice.

~~~
legitster
But running your own business is a surefire way to get to the top of an
applicant list.

~~~
mndg
Have you failed at a startup & business and experienced recruiting as a
business owner/founder / have you had skin in the game here?

Having failed 4Q19 at my startup, and tried finding work elsewhere, employers
have rejected me left and right.

I'm no longer positioning myself as a founder/business owner, instead choosing
a more traditional function, and deleting any reference to me being a founder
/ having done practically every single function.

Research out of U Oregon confirms my experience.
[https://business.uoregon.edu/news/job-prospects-former-
start...](https://business.uoregon.edu/news/job-prospects-former-startup-
founders)

------
vpEfljFL
Let new ventures find you instead.

Take some time to refresh your mind. After grinding your idea for four years
you most likely lost some experience in other fields.

Have fun, read fiction books. When you'll find a new idea, you most likely
neglect this parts of the life again for several yers. Good luck!

------
mikesabat
I took a job in the same space as my startup. My startup was bootstrapped, so
having built a product and learned the market was interesting experience to my
new employer. The work in the job seems much easier once you've been grinding
for the same problem on your own. I've continued to deepen my network.

You can still solve the problem you were trying to solve with the startup,
although you'll be doing it at a company. Maybe approaching it from a
different angle will shed new value on your ideas and creativity, and you
won't feel as depleted.

------
orasis
It took me 4 years to recover from burnout post business failing. I moved to
the mountains, did a lot of meditating and snowboarding and was able to start
a now-successful company after that 4 years.

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throes_death
Wow, I've just woken up to a bunch of new comments. Thanks everyone!

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alex_c
I’ve been there. It was incredibly stressful and tiring, especially towards
the end. I could not focus on anything for weeks after, let alone think about
starting something new.

Give yourself some time. Eat, sleep, work out, live - chances are you might
not have done much of that lately. I would suggest travel, but maybe not right
now :)

Look after yourself first, allow yourself to be bored again, the creativity
and the itch will come back. But you can’t force it if you’re running on
empty.

------
Gonzih
Take a break, take care of yourself. Be careful with energy levels and then
you will know when is the right time and what you want to do.

------
ctas
I've been there. If you want to chat (and maybe even work on something
together), mail me.

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ad31mar
Partner up with somebody :)

