
RIP Things - showngo
http://brooksreview.net/2010/12/rip-things/
======
siglesias
CC has kind of been a golden boy to Apple in promos--as a featured developer,
winning an Apple Design Award for their desktop version, and becoming a
featured app on the iPad page. To boot they have a very snazzy website with a
designer who can do great pen and ink infographics on their blog posts to add
an air of sophistication and diligence to their brand. But it's all gotten to
their head and combined with stiff competition from OmniFocus it looks like
they simply had their motivation shot and has reasoned that it would make more
sense to sit back and milk the free Apple publicity cash cow. Look at their
iPad product page. It's been like that since April. Through all of the sheen,
there are cracks.

What's sad is that it's the worst kind of corporate laziness and suck to throw
up gorgeous graphics (ex:<http://culturedcode.com/status/>) and create a false
connection to reliability and customer commitment. These guys have lost a lot
of trust and there is no evidence that even after this release that they'll
continue innovating at any reasonable rate.

------
dangrover
Implementing syncing as an independent developer kind of sucks. You have to
deal with the huge support burden of an audience that's going to run into
every edge case in it and complain very publicly. They're taking their time
and trying to get it right.

I did a presentation once on the topic:
[http://iphone2009.crowdvine.com/talk/presentation_file/5104/...](http://iphone2009.crowdvine.com/talk/presentation_file/5104/Grover_Syncing.pdf)

Also, if you bought a product, you've signaled that the current feature set
was worth the price. If the developers want to add new features for free,
that's a nice bonus.

~~~
siglesias
>>Also, if you bought a product, you've signaled that the current feature set
was worth the price.

I question whether this is the consumer expectation for iOS apps. Updates for
apps are fast and free, and oftentimes apps are sold with the explicit promise
of future updates that will contain various anticipated features. This and the
fact that many apps are platforms that consumers expect will be maintained
over a reasonable amount of time verses those of competitors.

~~~
evbart
I think you're spot on. With the top apps, you're buying into a platform.

Evernote is web, desktop, ios, etc, etc

Remember the milk is everywhere... so is Simplenote

------
iamjustlooking
OT: How did they change the color of highlighted text? I've never seen that
effect before!

Edit:

Found it in case someone else was interested:

    
    
        /* Mozilla based browsers */
        ::-moz-selection{background-color:#e12000;color:#fff;}
        /* Works in Safari */
        ::selection{background-color:#e12000;color:#fff;}

~~~
wahnfrieden
Keep in mind that many users highlight text as they read, so don't use some
color that makes your text more unreadable.

~~~
sudont
Right. And also keep in mind that Firefox will change the selection color
based on the inherent background color of the element being selected.

So, if you've got a black background of a super-parent element, and an light-
colored image background for the parent or the element, your text will
highlight white, ensuring that selected text is unreadable in certain
situations.

Either the posted hack or setting a background color fixes it.

~~~
wahnfrieden
Seems like a much better solution would be to set a light-colored background
color to the element which has the background image.

------
alextgordon
_> Ignore the fact that they wrote a slightly patronizing post detailing what
OTA sync is_

Wow. This has to be the fastest I've ever stopped reading an article halfway
through.

Has this guy considered that, just maybe, the world does not revolve around
him, and that _other people_ might not know what OTA sync is? Especially
considering the audience of Things.

~~~
kevinholesh
I've been using Things since it came out for the Mac and I've been wanting OTA
sync since the iPhone came out, but it isn't completely necessary. It is a
nice to have feature, but I would rather have it done right than rushed to
production.

By his logic, Apple waiting months before letting the iPhone have 3rd party
apps should've killed it; or Apple not having copy+paste until version 3.0
should've killed it. But neither of those happen because Apple was patient
enough to do it right the first time.

~~~
ceejayoz
Apple didn't say "SDK and copy-paste coming soon" and then take two years to
_not_ deliver them.

------
leejoramo
Syncing is Easy? Really!?

Cultured Code ALREADY has app to app syncing via WiFi. This works pretty well
to sync your tasks between Mac, iPhone and/or iPad. They have had this feature
for YEARS.

They don't have Cloud Syncing yet, and that would be very cool and useful. If
all they wanted to do was replace WiFi syncing with the Cloud, they could
probably have used WebDAV, iDisk, Dropbox, etc. They have stated that they
considered these options.

Based on what I have read over the years on CC's website, they are looking to
Cloud Syncing for a far larger solution than syncing your personal tasks
between your devices. I believe they are planning to add Groups and Workflows.
Presumably, you will be able to delegate tasks to other users and monitor
progress. This adds much more complexity to the server infrastructure and the
software design.

CC has also said they looked very closely at how GIT works. Clearly, CC does
not think a simple solution will fit their use case.

Yes, they have been slow to deliver both Cloud Syncing and work groups. Maybe
they are clueless or taken on too much at the expense of a steady stream of
smaller improvements. But I do believe CC is trying to solve a much bigger
problem than simply syncing devices belonging to one person.

------
maxklein
If it takes 2 years to implement syncing, then the developers are incompetent.

~~~
alextgordon
So how would you implement it?

~~~
dorianj
I'd probably do like 1Password does and require DropBox. It doesn't take all
the pain out of syncing (there's still a lot of conflict management that the
app has to take care of), but it would make low-level stuff easier.

But, it's a moot point. The Cultured Code guys are very technically competent,
this doesn't seem like they're unable to do the technology, but rather the
project management or discipline to get it out there.

~~~
irons
Omni found Dropbox's sync resolution to be unsuitable, and OmniFocus' data
more closely resembles Things' than either resembles 1Password.

<http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=13130>

------
zackola
IMO 1password got this so right. Use Dropbox, make it work great. I'd wager a
large % of things users are already hooked up with Dropbox.

------
kvs
Here is my issue with Things Sync:

Ever since they released their iPhone app customers have been asking them for
sync. This being a productivity app sync is very important. Things for the
longest time has had WiFi sync. It is a pain for two reasons:

1\. I have to remember to sync my devices every time I make changes. This is
not rest of my productivity apps work. My calendars sync automagically, my
email inbox sync automagically, my filesystem syncs automagically, BUT my
_productivity_ app does not!

2\. Wireless syncing doesn't always work because in some environments they
block the underlying protocol. Then I have to setup an AdHoc network etc. etc.

Failure on CC's part, IMO, is the lack of understanding, perhaps, of how
important sync is to their customers. A good approach would have been to
incrementally introduce support for sync, using Dropbox or MobileMe or what
not. Instead what it looks like happening is they are building a whole new
infrastructure that we will have to use to sync Things. My problem is that I
already pay for two good sync solutions that work well. I don't see the point
in paying for another one just for syncing.

------
dasil003
Totally agree that sync taking so long is really bad execution on CC's part,
totally disagree with the entitled hyperbole.

And the most irritating thing of all is the "sync is a solved problem"
armchair architect knee-jerk responses. If you really believe that then you're
happy with half-assed, poor user experience solutions that aren't tailored to
specific data.

~~~
rendezvouscp
That’s the weird part—from their blog post, it sounds like they’ve designed a
general solution that isn’t tailored to Things:

“We have created and deployed both server and client-side sync components.
Both components are completely general and can be used for any application.
They have been successfully tested using a special demo program. We are now in
the process of integrating this technology into Things.”

------
jaredblake
We built OTA sync using Google App Engine for Appigo. Check out
<https://appigotodo.appspot.com> for more info. We have sync'd millions of
tasks since our launch in October. It wasn't a trivial development task, but
it definitely didn't take us 2 years.

There is a fundamental difference in the way CC is approaching sync. They are
trying to sync by moving the actual database around instead of using a
protocol based service. They must have some reason for why they need to move
the actual database file around but I don't know what that is.

------
tz
We got tired of waiting for OTA sync and true delegation support so we built
our own:

<http://heliumnow.com>

I will say that getting the edge cases for sync is difficult (We also
integrate with email which has made it even more complex). Having spent the
last several months fighting through it I can empathize with Cultured Code's
perspective. But the user community has been vocal about this issue for years.
OTA sync is a critical piece of a task management workflow, you've got to have
it.

~~~
dabeeeenster
Stopped reading at Adobe Air I'm afraid. If you're aiming at people who like
beautiful interfaces, Air is a poor choice IMHO.

~~~
tz
Interesting reaction. I think it is possible to create beautiful interfaces in
AIR (I'll leave it up to you to decide if we've accomplished it or not). I
haven't heard many people complain about TweetDeck's desktop UI. Realistically
AIR represents trade-offs. On the downside you have to install AIR with the
software, but it also gives users the ability to run it on any OS from day
one.

The development overhead of maintaining separate code for each OS is too great
which is why there are essentially no task management tools that cross
platforms. I'd like to think that the ability to run on any platform brings
considerable value to our users. For those of us that use both Mac and PC
everyday, this is something we could never do with Things or OmniFocus.

Give it a second look. It may be worth rethinking the value of AIR.

------
kijeda
I was an early adopter of Things and I too have been disappointed with the
multi-year march toward over-the-air synching. One of the things that suggests
they haven't taken the issues seriously involves their current support for
opportunistic synching over a local network using Bonjour discovery. The
problem is, it is not encrypted — the entire contents of your database is sent
in the clear on the local network. When the problem has been raised with them
they have been dismissive, responding it is easily fixed by simply securing
the Wifi network with a password. What that does to prevent the hundreds of
others who use the same Wifi network from snooping on your data is not clear.

Fingers crossed they truly have re-architected to something useful. Sure,
synching presents some challenges, but it is hard not to wonder how multiple
programmers need over 2 years to add their #1 needed feature.

------
richardw
The Things team aren't incompetent and it's not an easy problem. I went way,
way over my original time estimate for building sync into my own todo list app
and in the end had to leave a couple of things unsolved to just get it out. I
really, really feel for them.

------
runjake
I have to thanks Things for teaching me that function over form is critical.
Needless to say I no longer use Things, I just use a text file with sections.
It's a hell of a lot easier than dealing with cumbersome To Do apps.

------
mynegation
Yes, sync is hard, but it is not that it should take that long, especially
when it is THAT important. When I was in a process of choosing PIM on iPhone,
when gmail introduced Calendar sync I jumped on this feature literally next
day. After that I migrated to Informant which does both google calendar sync
_and_ tasklist over-the-air sync with RememberTheMilk. It has its occasional
glitches but mostly works, and now no amount of other features will make me
switch to PIM without OTA.

------
mcritz
There’s doing it then doing it _right_.

The type of syncing that Things wants to accomplish is probably different
enough from other products to warrant a new approach.

------
mynameisraj
I wouldn't say Things is dead. The Hit List, another task manager, also went
under the radar…

But at least Andy (the guy behind THL) is showing some progress:
<http://www.thehitlistapp.com>

Cultured Code mentions some internal problems. I wonder what happened?

~~~
mwcremer
Perhaps related? Bartek Bargiel (of iGTD fame) joined Cultured Code in August
of 2009.

Also, see <http://culturedcode.com/status/>

------
evbart
I can never remember to "sync before you go" , glad I bought Omnifocus

Why can't they use the me.com sync, like omnifocus?

------
nhangen
I'm more frustrated with the cost of the iPhone and iPad applications than I
am the lack of OTA sync.

------
mcantor
What the hell is going on here? What is Cultured Code? Why is this guy so
opinionated? Who is he? Why should I care? What is this "wallpaper" he is
referring to? Are OmniFocus and Cultured Code two competing software suites?
What do they do? This site gives absolutely no indication of _any_ context.

Ah, okay. Upon forcing myself to read the rest of the article, I infer that
Cultured Code is a blog maintained by the guys who make this software called
"Things," which I had no idea existed until just now. And I also infer that
the guy who wrote the linked article (I have no idea who, of course, because
the site has no author listing for its posts and no "About" link to be found)
is kind of an obnoxious blowhard. As a fellow obnoxious blowhard, I applaud
his ranting chops, but I guess I just wasn't the target demographic for this
post.

~~~
markbao
Are you really _that_ lazy that you can't Google around a little bit?

~~~
mcantor
What I meant (and failed) to express is not that I eschewed Googling because
I'm _lazy_ , but because I _had no reason to Google_.

In my completely non-expert world view, I think that blogs (and websites in
general) have three types of visitors: Committed, Unqualified Leads, and
Uninterested.

Committed visitors will dutifully read and re-read all available information,
regardless of whether it is presented clearly. These are people with a
personal interest or responsibility related to the subject matter, like
devoted Apple users reading Steve Jobs' latest address, or competitive Street
Fighter players reading about how to execute a special move or winning
strategy. As soon as they detect that the information is within their purview,
they _will_ consume all of it thoroughly.

Uninterested visitors are simply not in the target demographic; if they
clicked on the link at all, they will close the window as soon as they process
that the content is not relevant to them.

Unqualified visitors are people who _might_ be interested, or maybe even
_want_ to be interested, but require extra context or a "hook" to get them
going.

I feel like "visitor interest" is a spectrum, with "committed" on one end,
"uninterested" on the other, and "unqualified" representing the vast gradient
chasm between them.

 _TL;DR_ :

I am probably not the only reader that Brooks Review lost by catering only to
committed visitors.

 _Long version_ :

Clicking the link for the article, I was an unqualified visitor. I literally
had no idea what "Things" was, so I thought "RIP Things" might have been some
kind of metaphysical rant about getting rid of superfluous material
possessions. Instead I was dropped, _in medias res_ , into a contextless rant
about OTA sync (what does that have to do with "Things", I thought?), and how
it's "still a few months away." From what? For whom? Then he transitions
jarringly into "The Wallpaper." At that point I knew I had to click on the
Cultured Code link, because obviously I was missing too much. Upon clicking
through, I was faced with an equally contextless long-winded article about
"cloud sync" that made no mention whatsoever of wallpaper. That's when I gave
up.

All of this could have been _very_ easily remedied if Cultured Code's site had
a tiny slogan or product description at the top of their page, or if the
Brooks Review guy had a link to something explaining OmniFocus, or a blurb on
the page explaining if he has any stake or connections to OmniFocus.

So, to be clear, I did not Google for "Things," because long before the source
article mentions that "Things" is something that you can purchase and interact
with (and thus, perhaps Google for), I had already given up reading, because I
didn't know what OmniFocus was, what wallpaper he was talking about, who the
article was written by, who the linked article was written by, or why OTA sync
was a big deal, or in which world of computing OTA sync was being discussed,
and neither Brooks Review nor Cultured Code had designed their sites in such a
way as to explain why I should care.

