
Ask HN: Are there any studies about book reading retention rates vs. audiobooks? - kspy
I commute a lot now and find it much more convenient to listen to a book sometimes. However if it&#x27;s something non-fiction or technical I understand the value of having a physical copy to be able to grab, or even an ebook to access on screen. Thoughts?
======
juvoni
I've done some personal "A/B" testing on audio vs print for retention and
found that I remember significantly less when listening to non-fiction content
as opposed to reading it and the recall dropoff is very sharp.

I mainly use audiobooks now for mostly fiction and narrative strong content
like history, biographies/memories, or communication around domains like
sales, public speaking, marketing, and relationship books.

I found a lot more interesting things about being more strategical in using
the right medium(print vs ebook vs audio) depending on the nature of the
content I'm consuming as well as my energy levels[1].

[1] [https://juvoni.com/print-ebook-audiobook](https://juvoni.com/print-ebook-
audiobook)

~~~
chc
Did you actually listen under the same circumstances you would have read? For
example, you wouldn't visually read a book while folding clothes. I suspect
some of the lower recall with audiobooks is because people listen to them in
situations where they wouldn't be able to read a physical book at all.

~~~
juvoni
I do admit that around half of the circumstances where I was listening to
audiobooks I was multitasking or in a situation or environment where a
physical book would be more difficult, but some situations were focused
listening as well and strong narrative content usually persisted better in
memory.

Most frequent contexts were: \- Cooking \- Working out \- Airplane \- Subway
Rides (If the train is too crowded to read I'll switch to listening to an
audiobook) \- Walking Places \- Focused listening before bed

------
tristanho
Audiobooks certainly feel like they have much worse retention. To solve this,
whenever I listen to an audiobook now, I'll both buy it on Audible and on
Kindle. Then, whenever I hear something particularly compelling/important, I
quickly hop into the Kindle app on my phone and highlight it. If a book has
whispersync[0] enabled this is especially easy.

This, combined with having a workflow for consistently reviewing my
highlights[1] has improved my (admittedly self-reported) retention
significantly. There's plenty of science that supports how effective spaced
repetition is for retention.

[0]
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000827...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000827761)

[1] [https://readwise.io](https://readwise.io) \-- disclaimer: I built this,
but I genuinely think it's helpful here.

~~~
winkywooster
This is what I do. I also will read the Kindle portion of book when I can,
only listening to audio when I'm in the car or doing something with my hands.
I'm also a heavy user of "skip back 30 secs" (the back button on my truck's
steering column does this out of the box). If I find my thoughts wandering, I
will skip back to a portion I remember, and listen again. If I find myself
skipping back a lot, I'll listen to something else.

In my personal experience, audio has a lower retention rate compared to
reading. However, you can train yourself to do better. The benefit is I can
listen at 2x, and get a lot books in during my commute.

------
russelluresti
[http://jass.neuro.wisc.edu/2013/01/Group%203.Udomon.Final%20...](http://jass.neuro.wisc.edu/2013/01/Group%203.Udomon.Final%20Submission.pdf)
\- "An analysis of the test scores also indicates that visual stimulation is
more effective than audio stimuli at achieving higher memory retention and
recall (with a p-value < .05). "

[http://www.youngscientist.com.au/wp-
content/uploads/2015/02/...](http://www.youngscientist.com.au/wp-
content/uploads/2015/02/Biology-10-12-Catherine-Taylor-report.pdf) \- "From
the results, it was concluded that visual information is recalled the most
effectively, followed by audio/visual and then audio information."

From my understanding, listening and reading activate the brain in different
ways. Listening also takes a higher effort to turn information into memory. It
seems that if you're practiced at information processing through listening
(e.g. you've listened to a lot of audiobooks or are a practiced storyteller)
then there's less of a difference.

Part of me thinks that reading leads to better comprehension and information
recall because it's very easy to re-read a sentence versus rewinding audio.
Anecdotally, I know I've been in a scenario where I was reading the end of a
paragraph and realized I had stopped paying attention and was quickly able to
go back and re-read it.

~~~
dntrkv
One of my favorite features of Audible is the ability to rewind in 30 second
segments. Very often I'll be listening to an audiobook and realize that I
stopped paying attention, hitting the rewind button a couple times makes it
super easy to get back to where you last payed attention.

~~~
surprisetalk
When that happens to me, it's a sign that I'm listening at a rate that's
either too slow or too fast.

I highly recommend speeding/slowing your audiobooks to the perfect point where
your mind doesn't wander.

------
vlaak
I've listened to a lot of audiobooks over the last several years. I've
switched probably 80% of my "reading" time to audio so I can get more content
(while driving, cleaning, laundry, etc.).

In my case, retention is much lower for listened content compared to read
content. So much so that I now only listen to things which I consider
entertainment. For anything technical, or that I'd want to retain longer than
a few weeks I read with an actual book.

I hesitate to speak for everyone on this, but I will say that a few friends
I've spoken to about it have said they see the same lesser retention in audio
content.

~~~
gordon_freeman
One thing I've noticed is that when I'm listening to Audiobook and doing
multitasking (working on computer, driving, etc.), the retention rate is
usually very low. But if I am solely relaxing and listening to an Audiobook
while not doing anything else then the retention rate tends to be much higher.
The good thing with Audiobook is that the narrator can make the experience
alive by his/her style of narrating which we would not get with merely reading
the book.

~~~
Naritai
I wonder what the retention rate would be if one tried to do laundry while
reading a traditional book :)

------
nickjj
A lot of people are saying audio books have less retention (which may be
true), but are you accounting for what you're doing while listening to them?

For example, if you read a book, chances are you're 100% focused on the book,
probably sitting or laying down in a quiet room.

On the other hand while listening to an audio book you might be driving,
running errands or cleaning. Most of that is probably on auto-pilot but I have
to imagine trying to multi-task whatever you're doing while absorbing content
is going to cause a huge hit to retention.

I think it's worth exploring the above because I find that other than first
hand experience I learn best by watching videos. It could be someone talking
into a camera, or just slides, but in both cases I feel like I retain
information better than just reading. However in this case, I'm also 100%
focused on the task as if I were reading. Most of those videos could have just
audio and it's basically the same thing (comparable to audio books).

~~~
michaericalribo
Nice point about distractions. We also have a LOT more practice learning and
retaining by reading than we do by listening.

~~~
nickjj
I'm not so sure about that.

Maybe it's different outside of the US but in the US, most of the time you
have a teacher talking to a bunch of students with a blackboard. This goes
from about age 6 to 18.

Learning is very much audio driven, and text books were used as supplements
(and for homework).

------
cyberprunes
In my view, audiobooks are a complete waste of time for retaining information
unless you are highly engaged and not distracted. The droves of multitaskers
that "mind hack / life hack" themselves by listening to audiobooks at 2x+
speeds while "getting shit done" are deluding themselves and descending into
stupidity. Read, god dammit! Read! You have to read deeply and deliberately.
Seriously, audio books are a good supplement but not a replacement. You cannot
be educated "on the go" with audio books. Anything worth learning will demand
your full attention. That's my opinion.

------
unbearded
I'm not aware of any study, but having listened to over a hundred audiobooks
on the last few years, I would like to share my experience while listing to
non-fiction.

My experience is that retention depends mainly on two factors: the amount of
attention and quality of the reader. I prefer when the author is the one
reading because many of them add comments and a special "energy" to the book.

I find the "car mode" on Audible very convenient to add bookmarks without
disruption while I'm driving and I use at the gym as well.

Some books that I want to reference later I buy a paper-copy and mark with a
highlighter on the same places I bookmarked on the Audible App.

While listening, the faster I play, the more attention I pay. I start at 2X
and if I'm listening to the audiobook a second time, I can go up to 3X. 1X and
1.5X are for engaging parts or when I can't understand what is being said.

One thing I don't do is: listen while not able to pay attention. While dring
it can be while going through a toll or navigating through unfamiliar streets.

With all said, the feature that I think is the most useful for retention is
the Pause button. This way I can reflect on what I just heard and save the
information on my brain's long-term storage.

~~~
rushi_agrawal
I've had an instance where the author was reading his book himself, and his
accent was so difficult that only then I started to realize the effort
professional readers must have put into to make the book listenable. Had to
read that book at .9X to be able to follow it.

------
WheelsAtLarge
There's a theory in memory research that says that you need to focus or at
least notice an idea or thing before you can remember it. Example: given a
picture, few people will be able to completely describe it but you'll be able
to describe those areas you focused on or caught your attention.

We think that we remember everything we see or hear but that's impossible
since in order to remember the data first has to be detected and it has to go
through short-term memory before it can be stored in long-term memory. Short-
term memory can hold about 7 items at one time. Also, our memory's nature is
to forget unless it's important.

So given the above, it's impossible to retain much of what we hear vs reading.
We get the illusion that we are capturing everything we hear but we are not.
We capture what we think is important but it's going by so fast that it's just
bits and pieces with our minds filling in the blanks. Basically, what audio is
doing is keeping our minds busy.

So if you want to get the basic idea of a book you listen to it. If you want
to retain the most of it you read and you try to recall what you just read.

------
techwizrd
I don't necessarily know of any studies, but I can offer some "anecdata". In
reading, I tend to skim past long descriptions without any action. For
example, I would skim past the food description in Brian Jaques' books, the
descriptions in Lord of the Rings (such as The Council of Elrond), and lots of
minor details in Harry Potter. I've recently been listening to a lot of
audiobooks since the free echo deal (that came signed you up for Audible) from
Amazong.

I've found that I retain a lot more of the details now that I'm listening
through the books and I cannot just skim past "the boring parts". I notice the
subtle callbacks to details in earlier stories. I notice the little hints or
clues dropped by the author (especially in their choice of words). I think I
actually enjoy this more because I get a stronger sense of the "craftsmanship"
element.

However, this really requires a good reading so that you can distinguish the
different voices, emotions, and details.

------
lordkrandel
I think you need better questions instead of a direct answer and here were my
2 cents. Funny how people here think about A/B testing before they actually
try to put an hypotesis behind the fact. As an average guy, I'd say that
remembering things you've just listened to is very harder, except for people
who have non-standard memory qualities. In ancient Greece, Epic saga started
to be written to ensure the story wouldn't change through time. There's not
only memorization involved, but also understanding and the ability to refer to
someone else what you've learned. Have you ever tried as a child that game in
which you have to pass a message through a number of mates by whispering it in
their ear? It's disastrous and you don't even have to memorize it. Hammurabi
has started writing laws for the same need of reference. And yet? In ancient
times nothing was written, and people had to learn long codes and rhymes by
heart and were requested to remember that for a lifetime. And it was easier:
they exercised the skill a lot. Their attention span was linear, more focused,
more trained. Did you actually learn logarithmic tables by heart? State
capitals? We live in times that don't really promote retention in favour of
linking concepts and knowing where to search the written information at speed,
just because the lack of exercise has taken away our trust in our own memory.
So I don't really think that the medium is important, it's the fit. Do you
want a soothing voice telling you the beauty of an imaginary landscape? Or to
give voice to a particular character from a book which matters to you? Or are
you reading a technical reference book? Are you studying for repetition? Does
voiced emphasis give you a stronger hook on sentences? Are you reading or
listening to a book about public speaking? I remember prayers from my catholic
days which I learned by heart in church without even reading them once -
because I remember the rhythm and that kind of song they used to make you
better memorize it. Still reminds me of Homer and ancient Greek times. What do
you think?

------
DanielleMolloy
Overall my retention is currently higher for audiobooks just because I get
through them much faster in comparison to physical copies. Also, I’m more
likely to finish them - I will listen through boring sections, due to which I
would probably put the physical book aside.

I can not imagine listening to technical books though (popular science seems
to be fine, I’m listening to Walter Isaacson’s Einstein biography right now),
the reader must be a fit (Stephen Fry is gorgeous); and I can only use the
times when my head is not engaged otherwise (commuting, groceries, food,
housework).

To those unaware: Spotify has a huge audiobook collection now. I wish they
would add increasing playback speed as a feature, if readers are too slow my
thoughts will wander. I also have an Audible subscription, they have a quite
convincing library now.

------
rbur0425
[http://www.danielwillingham.com/daniel-willingham-science-
an...](http://www.danielwillingham.com/daniel-willingham-science-and-
education-blog/is-listening-to-an-audio-book-cheating)

~~~
combatentropy
I was going to write the same thing before even reading this.

The human brain is hardware-accelerated for encoding and decoding spoken
language. That's why alphabets often just represent sounds, why it's so easy
for even an educated adult to right homophones, and why professional writers
still take into consideration sonic properties like rhythm. It's because, like
the article says, even while reading silently, you still hear it.

Speech is primary, writing secondary. So sit back, relax, and enjoy it.

~~~
mcculley
Not all of us hear words when reading. I usually don't unless I think about it
(like now). I often miss written puns for this reason. I don't know how common
this is.

------
searine
I find that with audio non-fiction I may gloss over some details but the
momentum is better so I read more overall, so there is a net gain.

If I really want to study a subject I will listen to the audiobook, and then
re-read it in text form.

------
KVFinn
Personally, for fiction, my retention is higher in audio form because it
forces me to read slower. I have a bad habit of getting into a speed-reading
mode otherwise where I think I'm retaining everything but I'm actually
skipping over details.

I've found books that I thought were mediocre were much better as audiobooks
because the pace forced me to really listen to and appreciate the quality of
the prose.

I do agree that more technical material is more awkward in audio form and
really benefits from being able to flip back and forth for reference in a real
book.

------
hyencomper
A study has shown that the mind tends to wander more when listening to
audiobooks compared to reading.
[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2013.0089...](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2013.00892/full)
Personally, I only listen to audiobooks while cleaning or driving, and so
retain much lesser than when I read, which is when I am completely engrossed
in the material.

------
todd8
I’ve heard the answer to this question somewhere, but now I can’t remember
what I heard. :)

More seriously, some of this, to me, depends on what I’m listening to or
reading. Fiction or easy non-fiction audio books do allow some degree of
multitasking. However this doesn’t apply to 90% of my reading. Technical
material is much faster for me to actually read.

For example, I saw an interesting paper recently[1]. It’s results are
important and I’m happy to have come across them, but there is no way I could
have absorbed it on an audio format without taking much more time.

I read technical material like this faster because I can skim over the things
I already know (like why the result is interesting, applications of the idea,
complex proof steps, math background material, etc) and I can slow down for
the key results I want to remember. I can go back and re-read sentences that
don’t make sense to me or where I’m confused.

For technical books there is so much that I don’t usually have to learn again,
I can just skip to the new stuff.

[1] The Power of Two Choices in Randomized Load Balancing,
[https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=504343](https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=504343)

------
matthewmcg
I jump back and forth between Kindle and Audible versions of the same book
frequently. Like others, I find that retention seems lower for audiobooks,
usually because I am doing something (driving, walking, chores) when
listening.

I do, however, find strong associations between certain book passages and the
places where I was when I heard them. Particular road trips are inextricably
linked to particular books and vice versa.

~~~
rripken
I used to listen to lots of audiobooks b/c I had a long commute and I
definitely agree that places get tied to specific passages. I believe it works
both ways - re-reading books can sometimes make me remember the places and
revisiting the places can remind me of the book that was playing. I'm now in
Grad School and frequently listen to lectures during the drive. It makes test-
taking interesting b/c some test questions cause me to think about geographic
locations and then thinking about nearby geographic locations can sometimes
remind me of the parts of the lecture that preceded or followed the material.
Its the commuter's version of "Method of Loci".

------
gordon_freeman
A suggestion for Audiobook: I'd really like to have a start/stop button on UI
by pressing which the app automatically captures a note in text format and
stores in the cloud under the same Audiobook. I hate to always take manual
notes and in process miss out what narrator said during the time I was taking
the notes.

~~~
MartynX
Audible has this feature, works exactly as you describe it.

~~~
bosie
When did they add the sync feature? I asked the audible support about sync two
months ago and they said that the notes are only stored on the device you are
using. Indeed i couldn't see it anywhere else and when i switched phones the
notes wouldn't sync to the new audible installation.

~~~
MartynX
It must have been recently then, I've just looked at my notes in the web
player that I had added in the Android app. If you still happen to have your
old phone, you may be able to sync them now.

~~~
bosie
Ah, that is great news, thank you.

------
FullMtlAlcoholc
For me, it depends on whether I'm listening to a fiction or non-fiction book
(also, the ability of the narrator to draw me in is key). I was completely
immersed in the audio version of the Three Body Problem and wager that I could
recall it better than if I had read it.

As for non-fiction, the last book I tried to listen to is Behave by Robert
Sapolsky. Although the narration is good, I simply cannot retain the names of
the various brain structures and their function. After listening to a chapter
for the 3rd time, I just gave up and decided to purchase the text version.

If someone is painting a picture for me, so to speak, as in narrative fiction,
I feel it makes a stronger impression than actually reading the material. But
if I'm trying to learn something, I frequently need to pause what I'm taking
in, usually to build a mental model.

------
ams6110
What about reading along with an audio book?

The only way one of my kids gets through some of the "great literature" he has
to read in high school is to listen to it, which I've conceded but on the
condition that he follow along in reading the book.

------
iambateman
I find that at the end of the day, my eyes are ready for a break and
audiobooks provide entertainment & insight. My experience indicates that my
retention rate for an audiobook is worse even though I listen to more overall
content.

That said, I find it valuable to learn how a writer thinks more so than the
technical details of each point they're trying to make. Right now I'm on a
deep dive for an author...listening to ~100 hours of their material. It is
somewhat like listening to 100 hours of their lecture. I learn _different_
things while listening to a lecture than I do when reading.

------
baby
People in this thread are talking about listening to audiobook while driving
and I find that distressing as a pedestrian. Can’t wait for mandatory self-
driving cars.

~~~
matte_black
You can do a lot worse than listening to an audiobook while driving.

~~~
baby
Still, when people are driving next to me I wish they would focus fully on the
road. More than a hundred people die every day in the US from traffic
accident, it's far from nothing.

------
ifoundthetao
I haven't read any studies. Generally I'll bump up what I'm listening to, to
2x or 3x (if the person speaks slowly enough) so I can get through what
they're saying more quickly.

But if it's something that's new to me, or highly technical, I'll follow up
with a course, physical book, or create a study out of it in a different
manner.

------
staunch
Repetition is the secret to audio or visual learning, at least for me.

If I like an audiobook/podcast/documentary/movie, I'll listen/watch it
multiple times. I've listened to my very favorite stuff dozens and even
hundreds of times, so I know the content extremely well.

------
sadiqyanju
15 percent for physical books i.e I have to read it 5 times to pass a an
undergraduate level exam with an A grade, 20 percent for audio about four
times spaced repetition for the A grade and 25 percent for video. I passed
PMI-PMP just watching videos on my first attempt.

------
anessaiver
The problem is multifactorial.

There have been studies looking at the relative retention rates of visual vs
auditory stimuli where the visual typically comes out ahead:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2667065/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2667065/)
[https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/iusburj/artic...](https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/iusburj/article/viewFile/19810/25887)
[http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....](http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0089914)

However, I would posit that the main reason for this discrepancy is that
memory is linked to the level of stimulation, and we typically have developed
to place a far higher weighting on our visual systems, not to mention the fact
that the visual signal typically has a far higher information content, linking
to many existing mental structures.

Once these sort of links are removed, with the stimuli being decontextualized,
the two tend to be more similar:
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00447078](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00447078)

The problem with audiobooks vs reading is far more constrained, and possibly
environmentally determined.

One study found that visual vs auditory retention rates for a short block of
text were virtually identical:
[http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1978-21860-001](http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1978-21860-001)

But another again shows the superiority of the visual system:
[http://scholar.utc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1171&cont...](http://scholar.utc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1171&context=mps)

But this was done in a controlled environment where the subjects' full
attention was focused on the audio. In such a case, it makes sense that
retention rates would be comparable, as the same language centers in the brain
are used for processing the input once it is transferred from the appropriate
input sense.

The big problem with audiobook retention is that we typically listen to them
whilst being involved in other tasks, and there are are a myriad of studies
showing that humans are inherently extremely bad multi-taskers, with high
task-switching costs even in people who claim to be otherwise.

Aside from just sitting with my eyes closed and listening, I find that
retention is maximized with audiobooks when there is a split between System 1
and System 2 activity (ala Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman). If I
am doing something like driving, using System 1, my System 2 can be fully
focused on the audiobook, until something darts out in the middle of the road
and then I end up having to rewind and re-listen to what I missed.

------
wink
I'm pretty sure the study would point out that there are two groups of people,
for each of which the one medium is vastly better ;)

Source: anecdotal evidence

------
Immortalin
Shameless Plug: [https://auditus.cc](https://auditus.cc)

You can easily convert a couple and run some A/B tests

------
rushi_agrawal
I'm continuously listening to audiobooks while commuting since last couple of
years or so. To increase retention, I've done a few things which have helped
(I don't have enough time to go through the physical book or ebook though I
tried it a few times, so can't comment on comparison there):

1\. Driving slowly, so as to still have safety as the most important priority,
and so that you miss lesser moments when you have to take your mind away from
listening and to the things happening on the road (talking about Bangalore's
i.e. India's traffic here). The slight gain in commute time (I think it should
be around 10% and definitely not more than 20%) is completely worth it. This
actually made my driving safer in general too.

2\. I have a 'repeat last 30 seconds' functionality at my fingertips. You'll
invariably miss a portion after which (sometimes) the story will stop making
sense. The attitude which worked for me here is, it's okay to spend a lot more
time to re-listen a part multiple times, than to let laziness take over by
thinking it's anyway an unimportant portion and okay to miss.

3\. Take out 5-10 minutes after a commute is done, to write notes about what I
thought are important learnings and should not be forgotten with time. I
believe if the goal is to not let the commute time go waste, then this notes-
writing time is also a part of it, without which your learning is incomplete.
This is way better than only remembering something like <2-5% of the book
after a year. I use Microsoft OneNote (this trumped over using Vim because I
can edit/read my notes while on the go without a laptop). One area of
improvement is, I need some way to _remind_ myself to read those notes :)

4\. Forcing myself to re-listen books which I found too useful to let my mind
forget in any way, instead of jumping over to that next interesting book. I
read mostly non-fiction books of a specific category (scientific-study-
oriented books about humans, their interactions, behaviour and their flaws).
Forcing re-learning is partly due to the fact that after a time I thought I'm
reading less important books (i.e. I'm running out of extremely good books in
this area), and partly due to forgetting to transfer that new book to my phone
to listen.

5\. I've lately realized that cramming all your free time to reading/learning
is not helpful too. You should have a reasonable time to 'ruminate' in the
day, each day, i.e. time when you're doing nothing (social network, news,
sports, or any screen-time in general, doesn't count)

Feel free to ask questions. Also, feel free to provide suggestions and book
recommendations. I'm all ears :)

------
johnsimer
I use memory palaces for audio books, and can get 80% retention for the first
few days, without review

------
nottorp
Define "retention". Do you want to be able to parrot it, or understand it?

------
vinchuco
Learning: Deliberate practice, active recall, and spaced repetition.

------
contingencies
Random suggestion: how about listening and taking notes?

~~~
WheelsAtLarge
Yes, this will help. But how many people will do it since many people listen
to books so they can multitask?

------
CryoLogic
I can't use half the ebook readers because they come jam packed with ads for
their app store, browser for distraction, frequent updates and attempt to push
other apps on you.

I will stick with my paperback books for retention.

~~~
Crespyl
Have you mostly used Android/Tablet based readers like the Kindle Fire or
similar?

I have similar issues with lots of online services for more than just ebooks,
but it seems like the e-ink devices (I use a Kobo) tend to be more minimal and
focused on simple functionality.

Nothing will replace the smells and sensations of turning a physical page, but
a basic e-ink device has made it much easier for me to read far more than I
used to be able to (vastly more portable being the biggest improvement).

