
YC Fellowship - mattkrisiloff
http://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-fellowship
======
hydandata
For me, the key is that they are even _considering_ remote. I think that
really is the part that is needed to get to another 10x. I am not saying
remote work is intrinsically 10x better in quality or quantity, I am thinking
about it more from the point of view of people who cannot or will not travel,
new people that can be reached this way.

Take myself for example: I do have this thing that I am working on.. but I
also have a wife and a daughter whom I adore, and I would _hate_ to go away
from them for any period of time. Having my wife close, playing with my
daughter, these are the things that keep me going, not some dream of jets and
fancy cars. I already have a job that I like, I am not running away from
anything, I just want to do something better, because I know I can. I already
work mostly remotely, and there is no going back to _old ways_ for me. If I
ever found anything, it will be remote and remote only.

Maybe there are fewer people who really _get_ remote work, but in my personal
experience, it is an absolute joy to work with them. And is it not repeated
over and over again that you should not pursue something you do not believe
in?

I have never considered applying because of the travel requirement, but now I
am really tempted.

~~~
mwsherman
Well put. Geography is vastly underestimated as a limiting factor. Not simply
for $ – living in the Bay Area is barely feasible for a young person without
dependents – but also the many quality-of-life trade-offs that come with a
move. I hope this is a successful experiment.

~~~
dandanisaur
Moving to an area specifically for your startup, even if you were told to do
so, can really show your dedication (not just by saying it). You are proving
that you are willing to do whatever it takes. I've known many who have moved
for the 3 months @ YC and then have rightfully moved back... I don't think any
of them have regretted. YC may be looking for someone who can make it work, if
there is a will, there is a way. THAT is what they are looking for.

There is a method to the madness. They have proven it.

~~~
mozumder
One problem is that, for a lot of industries, San Francisco is the wrong place
to be.

If you want to be in fashion-tech, for example, you want to be in New York (or
possibly London). And, there are lot of other industries concentrated in
specific areas around the world.

Limiting to San Francisco is limiting your industry. Sure you can get a ton of
web developers, but you'll lose access & relationships to the REAL industry
insiders that matter for your vertical.

~~~
mjn
I think that can be true, but YC has a model that works for them, so it seems
ok to me to not try to cover every industry in the world. Some of them are
quite different, to the extent that YC's networks and expertise might not be
as immediately useful anyway. For example Houston has a lot of energy-
technology startups, especially in oil & gas, doing anything from the
"hardware" side to analytics to GIS type stuff. But it's basically its own
world that has little overlap with the Bay Area startup world. Different
investors, different types of customers, different production challenges,
different employee demographics, etc.

------
dean
This is a good idea and a great opportunity for many people. And I think it's
fantastic that YC is doing this. However, I can't help feeling it really is
intended for young people recently out of school, who have no other immediate
financial obligations.

I would really love to see an option for people who are not in this group.
Let's imagine someone who is married, with a couple of kids and a mortgage.
Right away, YC Fellowship is not feasible.

If you really want another ten-fold increase in the number of startups,
tapping into an older demographic could do it -- just because it seems to be a
largely untapped resource. We're talking about people with years of experience
working in the real world, on real products. We're talking about years of
domain expertise, in all kinds of domains. We're talking about people with
ideas, and the expertise to execute on them. And all this potential is being
left on the table because they typically can't afford to quit their jobs for
3k a month (based on a two-founder team in YC Fellowship).

But if each founder had enough funding to be able to handle their financial
obligations, and work full time on their startups, for a year, I think that
would break open the flood gates, and you'd see a huge increase in viable
startups.

There must be a sweet spot in terms of funding/equity for this scenario, in
order to make it beneficial to everyone involved.

~~~
sama
There's no question that having a low personal burn rate is an advantage when
it comes to starting a startup.

That said, there are a lot of alternatives. There are more seed funds now than
ever before. One of the reasons we did this program is that we believe there
is hole in this part of the market--it feels like there are more people
willing to write a $100k check than a $12k check.

Practically speaking, we also felt this was where we could make the most
impact with dollars we're giving away. $12MM is the price of a small series B,
or 1000 YC Fellowships.

~~~
acjohnson55
I'm really excited about this move. When I was working on my startup, broke,
fresh out of grad school, $12k could have been the lifeline we needed.
Instead, we had to stop building while we tried to raise funds prematurely,
and bled out before we could pick up momentum.

As long as you guys are as selective as you are with the startups you fund, I
think we may well see a whole bunch of startups in 5 years that we can trace
back to this fellowship. I think this is a great first step to leveling the
playing field for those who don't come from / don't have a whole lot of
capital, and might just need a shot. Very timely, in light of the recent
Quartz article [1].

[1] [http://qz.com/455109/entrepreneurs-dont-have-a-special-
gene-...](http://qz.com/455109/entrepreneurs-dont-have-a-special-gene-for-
risk-they-come-from-families-with-money/)

~~~
Alex3917
This also keeps YC relevant even though the world in which they were created
largely no longer exists:

\- In 2005, there were essentially no sources for early stage capital. Now you
can't tell someone about your startup at a meetup without five people trying
to throw money in your face.

\- In 2005, information about starting a startup was an oral tradition, and
web technology was so primitive that making a scalable website basically
required a CS degree. This meant that you really had to either be a business
person or a CS person, whereas now being both is table stakes.

\- In 2005, not only was it essentially impossible to meet VCs without some
sort of special connections, it was difficult even to figure out who they
were. These days they're all on LinkedIn, blogs, angellist, mattermark, etc.,
and as soon as you have any sort of traction they already know about you.

\- In 2005, people still spent time dreaming about what the world would be
like when everyone was connected to the Internet. Now the sociology is well
understood, the infrastructure has matured, strategies and tactics have become
commoditized, etc.

By giving away equity-free grants that come with access and advice, this
basically positions YC as the next YC, regardless of what else is going on the
world.

------
FiatLuxDave
I have to say that I love this idea. It addresses the biggest deficiency in
the typical Silicon Valley VC funding model, in that it requires moving to
Silicon Valley. It also bridges the gap in low-level seed funding which stops
many ideas from becoming reality. Perhaps you could call this "catalyst-stage
funding" since it will probably reduce the activation energy for getting many
ideas started (to use a physics analogy).

So, in short, go YC, you rock!

That said, I have a few questions:

1) Any idea of how many slots are open for this round? I expect you will get
many more applications than YC normally gets.

2) Some teams may have members with families who won't want to move to SV and
will work remotely. Other teams may have members who can and want to move.
Some teams may have a mix. What are your thoughts on splitting a team, having
some remote and some in SV? Would this provide advantages over having no one
in SV, or would splitting the team have so many downsides that it would be
better to be all remote?

3) For a team that already has a prototype and is beginning to work on getting
customers, but is not able to relocate, would YCF be a good choice?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
1) Around 20 -- we want to keep this test batch small. If successful, we'd
grow future batches.

2) I think it would depend on your company and what you're trying to do. I can
think of advantages to either way, and if accepted it's something we can talk
about.

3) If you're just starting to get customers (or struggling with it), still
apply. It will be a judgement call on whether you're too far along and should
just apply to YC W16, but relocating or not won't make a difference in that
assessment.

------
cperciva
_targeted at teams that are very, very early._

How about a version of this for companies which have been around for a while?

Seriously, it doesn't sound like Tarsnap would fit into this program at all,
but I'd love to be able to participate in something "lighter-weight" than YC
-- something which, like the YC Fellowship, would allow me access to advice
and contacts without taking funding or relocating.

Of course, I'm guessing the YC Fellowship are largely a recruiting tool for YC
($12k is a small price to pay for the opportunity to extensively vet
candidates prior to offering them a YC investment), so it wouldn't make sense
for YC to invite me into that particular structure; but I'm not looking for
money and I'd like to think that I could help YC by being "part of the family"
and being someone companies could be pointed at to help with questions
relating to my areas of expertise.

~~~
rattray
Is "advice" really what Tarsnap needs? It got a lot of it (really terrific
advice, too) from patio11. Looking at the home page, it doesn't appear any of
that advice has been taken.

~~~
cperciva
Patrick's advice (both in that article and otherwise) has been very useful to
me. But when I said "access to advice", I meant in a pull sense rather than a
push sense: Patrick (and other people who I consult from time to time) is
great within his area of expertise, but he doesn't know everything -- whereas
I get the impression that at YC, for every problem there is someone who has
relevant expertise and can offer advice.

------
drsim
I started my first business (web design) at 15 with a £1,000 grant from The
Prince's Scottish Youth Business Trust. It was a very significant amount for
me. Without it I wouldn't have been able to start.

My family were on income support so the money went straight on a PC, internet,
phone line, business cards and public transport to reach my clients to pitch
them. Thankfully I still lived with my parents: no rent until I was earning.

$12k is a very substantial amount for an underprivileged kid who's making the
Airbnb vs. large corp choice.

My grant was (lightly) means-tested. Did you consider means-testing as a way
to make more of an impact past the ideological one?

~~~
adamwintle
I find this an interesting point to bring up. My family were also on income
support when I was younger, and I also applied for the Youth Opportunity
Funding grant in the UK and was awarded £1,250.

Similar to drsim I intended to start my own media business using the money, so
I purchased a cheap PC, a camera, business cards, etc

In order to apply for the money I had to go through what was quite a lengthy
process, which overall took three months to complete. I had to choose every
item in advance with photocopies of the catalogue; this was to prevent people
cheating the funding and spending it on other things. This also made it
difficult to include consumables such as an internet subscription and
transportation costs.

Does YC plan to background check and make sure the $12,000 would actually be
spent on what it's intended for?

Also, does YC still consider applicants based in Asia, or is it US-based for
the time being?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
No. You're completely free to do with the money what you want, we just try
you'll focus on your company.

And yes! You can apply from anywhere (and no need to move here for this
program if you want to stay remote, though we still encourage that you do).

------
katm
Kat from YC here. Sam, Matt Krisiloff and I are happy to answer any questions
about the Fellowship. You can also send questions to
fellowship@ycombinator.com.

~~~
mattkrisiloff
Hi! Matt here -- I'll be managing YC Fellowship. I'll be answering questions
here throughout the day alongside Kat and Sam.

~~~
MichaelGG
Does YC ever consider ideas that aren't designed to be billion-dollar
companies? For instance, if someone was working on a next-gen diagnostics tool
for VoIP, they might realistically be able to get to $10-20M, maybe 10x if
things go really well. But it's hard to see that becoming a billion+ company
under any circumstances.

What advice do you have for such ideas?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
YC funds startups. Startups to us are companies designed to grow fast. Read
this if you haven't:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html)

It's OK to be working on something that's hard to imagine how it would grow to
be a really big thing, that's how most ideas start out. (Apple made hobbyist
computers, Google was another search engine of 1000 -- how big of a deal could
they have thought these would become?). It's important to be open-minded to
the pathways of how your idea could become something big as it keeps growing
though, and it's good to stop and think about those ideas every once in
awhile.

------
arihant
I'm not sure why it is repeated over and over that 12k is small sum of money.

12k can easily pay off 2-3 months rent, server costs, marketing stuff, even a
few flights. That's mental peace for 12 weeks to build something with 100%
focus. That's an extremely high value priviledge.

This should make sense for a lot of startups.

~~~
bicknergseng
[http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/networth/article/Average...](http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/networth/article/Average-
S-F-rent-hits-shocking-new-high-3-458-6232039.php)

12k is a small sum of money in SF. Assuming the founders don't want to live
together in a studio, looking at >5k month in just rent. Other costs of living
are also high. This leaves almost nothing for any actual start up costs.

Makes some sense if you're 22 and have no dependents, but 12k wouldn't be
persuasive for a Bay Area founder with a family.

~~~
wiseleo
There is plenty of less expensive real estate along BART. Take a look at San
Leandro, for example.

Other costs can be reduced as well.

I consider living in SF as an unnecessary luxury.

~~~
_delirium
Plus the pitch doesn't even encourage people to move to SF; it encourages them
to move to Silicon Valley, which is also where YC is based. It's not super-
cheap either, but there is plenty of Valley housing <$3k.

~~~
7Figures2Commas
> It's not super-cheap either, but there is plenty of Valley housing <$3k.

You're right. You can find studio and one bedroom apartments sub-$3K in places
like Redwood City. The problem for starving founders is that landlords aren't
going to lease to you when you can't show a sufficient, reliable income source
(read: a real job) and sufficient credit score/history.

------
pilingual
This is exactly why Y Combinator is the best. This is what leadership is (and
what those other accelerators do, is follow the lead).

> but as always we’ll consider solo founders too.

Please be extremely open minded about solo founders. I feel that is one
consideration that hasn't been adapted with the changing tech landscape.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
> Please be extremely open minded about solo founders. I feel that is one
> consideration that hasn't been adapted with the changing tech landscape.

This is something I always worry about too. I have several really amazing
people that I could partner with on a few different things but due to
financial obligations there isn't anyway they'd be able to join full time
unless there was an investment. So pitching as a solo always makes me nervous
that I'll be immediately discounted even if I could bring in a partner shortly
thereafter.

~~~
mattzito
> I have several really amazing people that I could partner with on a few
> different things but due to financial obligations there isn't anyway they'd
> be able to join full time unless there was an investment. So pitching as a
> solo always makes me nervous that I'll be immediately discounted even if I
> could bring in a partner shortly thereafter.

It's a fair point, but you have to take into account the fact that a lot of
those people won't join you when you do get investment. It's the same thing as
when two founders show up and talk about their rolodex of talent they have
waiting to be hired as soon as there's money in the door - it's a useful data
point, and certainly something to consider, but a good percentage of those
people will typically not work out, or won't like the terms, or will want too
much money, etc. So you can't treat it the same as the people who have the
team onboard _now_.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Oh I completely agree and understand just commiserating with the previous
poster as I have some of the same concerns but I don't blame YC either.

------
aacook
If you're like me and prefer to draft writing elsewhere, here's a Google Doc
you can copy with the questions and word limits:
[https://goo.gl/K5M3LM](https://goo.gl/K5M3LM)

Update: Document is fully public now.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Can you open up access to everyone versus everyone asking for permission?

~~~
jxm262
^ "The app is currently unreachable." I'd like access too!

~~~
aacook
Try now: [https://goo.gl/K5M3LM](https://goo.gl/K5M3LM)

------
colinbartlett
A very interesting proposition! I am thrilled to see this kind of model come
to life.

> Selected teams are strongly encouraged to move to the Bay Area for the
> program, but it’s not required.

I wish it wasn't so strongly encouraged. To move anywhere on a whim for 8
weeks is crazy to me, especially since the processes and tools for remote work
are so readily available. It's becoming increasingly important to know and
understand how to work with team members and stake holders all over the globe,
so why not encourage that mindset from the very beginning?

~~~
djb_hackernews
From my point of view this is very much aimed at the just graduated crowd.
These are young people thattypically just graduated in May, maybe took the
summer off or had a summer internship and are debating what to do next. 12k to
them is more than plenty for living with Mom and Dad for a few more months or
going on an 8 week adventure to SF.

Of course this will be a great opportunity for someone debating quitting a job
or something, but it seems the most available people will be those just out of
college.

To that end it will be interesting to actually see what types of people that
this program works for and are accepted.

------
jordigg
Don't underestimate that 12k + YC network and help. Most unicorns that came
from the YC program started with 20k not long ago. Too much money can kill a
small and inexperienced team, be lean, scrappy and bootstrap to prove then
raise to grow.

~~~
michaelochurch
If I hear that word "scrappy" one more time, I won't have any veins left in my
neck to pop.

~~~
jsmthrowaway
That's rough. How on Earth do you make it through Scooby-Doo?

------
will_brown
> "...kickoff and end events in Mountain View where teams will present to the
> YC community. We'll fly out remote teams for those."

YC community? Is this going to be like Demo Day but without investors? I know
this is an experiment, but what is envisioned here? Is it envisioned that the
Fellows will/will not be ready for funding at the end of the fellowship...or
completely unknown at this point?

Starting with idea/prototype where are Fellows expected to be at the end of 8
weeks?

------
nostrademons
Could you clarify what sort of access to YC office hours fellows get? Will
they be able to sign up for office hours with any of the partners, or will all
contact have to go through a single dedicated partner (and if so, which
partner is handling this)? The blog post implies that there's "a dedicated
partner", but the FAQ implies they get normal access to "YC partners" and
office hours.

------
heynk
The announcement's discussion of 'good founders' led me to view this as
supporting individuals, as well as teams. In contrast to YC's stance on only
really exceptional solo founders, could this program be more tailored to a
solo founder, perhaps still looking for a co-founder?

~~~
sama
We will be slightly more open to solo founders because we think at this stage
you still have a good chance of finding a cofounder.

But the bar will still remain higher for solo founders given all of our
historical data.

~~~
jhartmann
I'm glad you will be slightly more open to solo founders. I also like that you
are open to a more remote experience.

I think this project could be very helpful in my situation, I have a great
idea that is progressing (Deep Learning/AI Image Recognition SaaS) but would
have a hard time putting together a suitable team that could survive with our
current obligations in San Francisco (families, house payments, etc.) Maybe
getting myself working on it full time could get it to the point where it
could sustain itself enough that YC proper could work out financially for a
bigger team. Very excited, I'm definitely going to apply.

------
ghshephard
So, I read through the description three times. And I'm puzzled as to what the
real differences are between a YC Fellowship, and traditional YC investment.

Are the key differences - that the Fellowship is a grant, not an equity
investment (for $12K, rather than the larger YC investment), that it lasts for
only 8 weeks, and that the Fellowships aren't required to move to the Bay
Area?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
It's also designed for prototype and idea-stage teams in mind. Also, there
won't be a traditional Demo Day at the end, but there will be an end event
where teams will come to Mountain View to present to YC partners and alumni.

------
sandGorgon
I'm not sure about the US, but in India this would be huge. The early stage
ecosystem is fairly broken, but the startup scene is crazy hot - everyone is
doing a startup and the talent pool is huge.

Early stage investors put around 20-50K USD and take 30% of equity (yes equity
- convertible notes are shunned in India).

A USD 12K grant and the YC cred, would go a long way in rebalancing the
ecosystem.

I personally believe that early stage pre-prototype money is so easy in the
US... or the Kickstarter ecosystem is so effective (cant do a kickstarter from
India).... or the university aided startup infrastructure is so mature, that
this would not _materially_ impact as many people as it would in India/Asia.

~~~
trent09
I was thinking the same thing as I read the post. This would be huge in
Nigeria and other African countries. I'm rooting for this to be a success.

------
ascribd
There's a lot of focus on $12K that I think is a red herring. This isn't a
substitute for seed funding, it's not masquerading as a full-fledged
accelerator, it's a chance to borrow some of the momentum of an organization
that seems to have a pretty remarkable record at moonshots.

I've been working out of Denver and Vegas for several years now and the timing
of this couldn't be better. After all, why iterate on the same dimension over
and over and not try something new? I turn 50 on July 27. I've been working on
fun projects for pretty much all of my adult life and I have better things to
do than worry about things I can't control.

------
tajen
> $12000

France gives you a lumpsum of your unemployment benefits if you start a
business. If you were paid an average engineer salary, 2200€ net pm, it makes
42000€, and it's called ACCRE. The condition is to be fired, and not on our
heavy fault. Most of my friends negotiate giving cash to their employers to
get fired, so they could get ACCRE.

There are other grants (e.g. 6000€ for being a woman) and loans (28000€ for
being a woman, and others named CIR if you employ PhDs). For all of that, you
don't even need to have a good project, as opposed to applying to YC.

What I mean is, YC isn't targetting France, or is it?

~~~
throwaway41597
YCF offers office hours for 8 weeks, two events with the partners and the
alumni network. And the $12k and €42k are not mutually exclusive.

How many €10M+ companies got started with ACCRE money? Probably not even as
many as there are $1B+ YC companies.

~~~
tajen
Do we even have €10M+ startups in France? Besides Gemalto which is 30 years
old.

There's just no way we could create an Apple in France. It's too agressive,
therefore we would forbid it.

~~~
throwaway41597
Iliad is a €10B telco started about 20 years ago by a twenty-something. There
was Business Objects which sold for some billions circa 2000. Criteo started
in the 2000s and is worth billions. In tech, there are also DailyMotion,
Deezer, BlaBlaCar, Withings and Sigfox in the €100M+ range.

YC certainly fares better in a decade than France in 30 years. But you
shouldn't be self-deprecating, or you may start to believe it's impossible to
start a startup in France. When there's a will, there's a way.

Anyhow, we're getting off-topic.

------
larrys
12k gets them first dibs on an individual and/or a team ... a smart idea.

Essentially a variation of Cialdini's "reciprocity" principle (among others..)

[http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/six-principles-
influe...](http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/six-principles-
influence.htm)

People are free to do whatever they want with the grant and not go any further
with YC but it's obvious that the good will and grant will cause a large
percentage of them to not do that.

~~~
bengali3
I love Cialdini, thanks for linking. I recommend his book on Influence to
everyone.

I did think about this reciprocity initially when I heard no equity involved,
however I don't think YC & Co's problem is getting startups to agree take
their money after mentoring? Their issue is likely getting enough investment
opportunities to put cash into as fast as they can raise it. ( ie-pretty fast
). For that they need a bigger opportunity pipeline.

So, i basically agree that they are getting first dibs, but due little to
Cialdini's rule on reciprocity. I'd point more towards 'Liking' (ie building
the trust early) or 'Authority' since they are getting in the door first with
founders and are likely the initial startup mentor.

What I see, is that this program is just a simple (relative) way to ignite
some ideas that are on the cusp of being implemented, remove some of the
founding barriers, and start a conversation with their team earlier on in the
process (no one wants to be the third on the list to call to invest in a great
co.). The standard YC class schedule and size limitations are likely the
gating factors to their growth, especially when interest in 'startup
investing' isn't declining, and YC has already made moves to make it easier
for non-accredited investors to invest.

Maybe this is in line with what you were referring to.

------
fivedogit
This is great. It's the natural evolution of going earlier and earlier into
lifecycle of a startup (or even idea).

As a next move, I'd like to see them go "pre-team" and put talented
individuals with complimentary skill sets together behind a single idea.

~~~
saveetree
If you are interested in 'pre-team' you should check out EF in London
(joinef.com). They are all about helping technical co-founders meet. Some of
the companies have raised amongst the largest seed rounds in Europe.

Full disclosure: I have worked with them

------
chadnickbok
What kind of progress are you expecting teams to make during the 8 weeks?

How greatly do you anticipate this program impact getting into the "real" YC
winter batch? Do you expect that after 8 weeks most good startups would be
"ready" to be accepted into the winter class?

Do you expect that after completing the 8 weeks, teams will be ready to raise
funds?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
We want teams to make as much progress as possible based on wherever they're
starting at (ie for an idea-stage team, it could be building a prototype and
getting it into the hands of some users, for a prototype team, launching and
getting customers)

We hope we'll be able to help teams a lot -- YCF teams will be held up to the
same standards as all other YC applicants though if they choose to apply.
There won't be special treatment for YCF teams.

Maybe -- we at least hope they'll apply for funding from YC!

------
mattkrisiloff
The application form was getting hit pretty hard -- it's temporarily offline
while the Submittable team migrates it to its own server. Should just be a few
minutes -- will update when it's back up!

Edit: The application servers are back up! Look forward to reading your apps
:)

~~~
jameshk
It seems to be back up, but I lost my draft application, which I saved
multiple times.

~~~
mattkrisiloff
I'm sorry that happened :( I hope you'll still be willing to write it again --
the system should work smoothly now.

~~~
jameshk
Not a problem! :)

------
staunch
This could shift how technology is funded on a scale much larger than YC
already has. Teams probably need more like $50k, but even $12k is going to be
the difference for some great people. Congrats to YC for pushing things
forward, again. Let a million flowers bloom!

~~~
jebblue
12K is more than I'd make in a month (because I'm a terrible negotiator when
it comes to money - and old) but what do they want you to get done in what 5
or 6 weeks?

------
tinkerdol
Note to the organizers -- this sounds awesome, and I'd even love to apply, but
something announced now is too short notice for a round that starts in
September for those of us living in Germany and who currently have jobs (maybe
this applies to all of Europe? Not sure).

I have a work contract through the end of December and must give at minimum
three months notice to my employer if I leave before then, in order for them
to have time to find a replacement. And three months is the legal bare
minimum; better to plan more like 6 months out. Pretty sure this is the
standard timeframe throughout the country, if not continent.

Just a heads up -- I'd guess there are at least a handful of others in my
position.

------
TheMakeA
This seems really close to what YC started as. Why the spinoff?

~~~
kapitalx
I think as the popularity and # of applications of YC has increase over the
years, YC has naturally leaned towards startups who were further along. This
way they can make that shift official without losing the original vision of
YC.

~~~
tjculbertson
I like this idea. But I agree, it's a problem and this is probably one reason
for experimenting with this. It sounds like the number of apps are already
crazy, so not sure how YC will be able to sort through them all with more than
a crap shoot probability of success.

According the PG, the big ideas are not obvious at first, so how can you make
good decisions on so many ideas in so little time? Probably YC is going to
filter the apps through 1-2K YC founders or something and then have a score
sheet, silos of expertise, etc. Basically selection by committee.

Though I like the concept, I am skeptical of the judging, as well as the sheer
number of apps coming in worldwide - too much white noise which hurts the
ability of the many US based startups trying to get a seat at the table.

------
throwaway69283
(Posting from a throwaway account)

> for some people, [YCF] may be the difference between going to work at a big
> company and starting the next Airbnb

This is me. I applied to the YC summer batch and was rejected (I applied late,
as a single founder, with only an idea). I've tried to push ahead anyway with
my idea/startup and built a small prototype, but in the end decided to find a
job. I have just now gotten a job offer from big G.

YCF looks really interesting to me. What should I do? Accept the job at G and
then if accepted to YCF quit my job after 1 month? Any advice is appreciated

~~~
SoftwarePatent
Do you really want to be a googler or an entrepreneur? Visualize yourself one
year from now, have you made progress towards what you really want to be?

------
markm208
Was there any reason why this wasn't timed for the summer months?

It seems like a lot of entrepreneurial college students would love to spend
their summer working on their ideas. Perhaps it just came together at this
time but in hindsight I wonder if summer is a more logical time since students
have the free time anyway. The 12K would allow them to easily live/eat too.

I can even imagine involving college professors and students. Then it might
disrupt entrepreneurship education in higher ed.

------
cwal37
This is really interesting, and seems like a great opportunity for people in a
position to take advantage of it. Particularly the ability to work remotely.
An 8-week relocation could have been a major sticking pint for many groups.

If I wasn't tied down at my job for the foreseeable future I would jump at
this chance to go hard on an idea out of my "future/dream projects" design
docs folder that I only get to sporadically put time towards.

------
hbhakhra
What about a situation where one cofounder is willing to go full-time with
this YC Fellowship but the other would only work part time? How does that work
out?

~~~
chippy
This was the same question I was wanting to ask. $12K would be enough for one
founder living in a non SV part of the world for one year, but it's not enough
for two. What this implies is that the startup should be making money from the
get go.

So, I imagine, they are after startups that work and have some revenue but
have no initial funding.

------
TylerJay
If anyone is looking for another person for their team or wants to join a
team, consider me! If you're interested in discussing further after reading
this, send me a message and we'll talk.

I am currently self-employed as a startup consultant and freelance web
developer. I have extensive Computer Science, Sales, Account Management, and
Customer Success experience and have successfully started 2 small businesses
in the past with revenues of a half-a-million dollars combined. The last
company I worked at had 14 people and negligible market saturation when I
joined. I was instrumental in growing it to the #1 most used software system
in its industry, with over 200 employees and a valuation increase of 20x
(2000%) over 3 years.

I am comfortable working in both a programming/product role or on the business
end of things—whatever will best serve the team. I have two ideas for which I
have already done market validation, but I'm perfectly happy to go with your
idea instead if you can sell me on it.

If you think I'd be valuable to your team, or if you think you'd be a valuable
partner or member of _my_ team, send me a message. Let's talk. Cheers

~~~
beeboop
Hi Tyler - you don't have an email listed - could you post one so I can send
you a message? I'm a developer and it'd be nice to work with someone who has
some experience like you.

~~~
TylerJay
Hey, thanks for reaching out. Shoot me an email at tjkresch@gmail.com

------
pkfrank
Another great initiative from YC, which I'm sure will yield incredible access
to talented entrepreneurs. Surely there will be signal-to-noise issues, but if
any group is equipped to sift through for (and help develop) talent, it's YC.

$12k _is not_ a lot of money in the grand scheme, but it is a _huge_ grant to
many talented founders/teams who otherwise wouldn't be able to take this leap.

------
sbuccini
Do you foresee this being available at other times in the year, like the YC
program itself? A winter fellowship would be ideal for me.

~~~
katm
We're going to see how this initial experiment goes before we make any
decisions.

------
bozoUser
Hi Mat and Kat, thanks for this wonderful initiative. Two qs.

1) This line: _" We’ll encourage but not require that Fellows later apply to Y
Combinator."_ Will this lead to YC fellowship being a pre-req to get into YC
in the future years?

2) Will this garner similar scrutiny of getting into YC? if not can you share
a few major differences in the selection criteria?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
1) Definitely not -- they're separate programs

2) It's still going to be pretty competitive, but it's primarily for earlier
stage teams (idea and prototype). YC is for companies of all stages (idea to
fast growth).

------
adamzerner
Is there a catch? What does YC gain from this? A larger pool of applicants to
chose from for YC? Or is this philanthropic?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
No catch. We believe it's incredibly important to keep growing the number of
startups throughout the world -- they're the largest drivers of innovation and
change.

------
rokhayakebe
YC is an entire team and as with every great team, the most influential work
is being done by people we shall never know. Kudos to everyone there.

That being said, this Sama is one freaking impressive DOer. From the time he
came in to now, this feels like the YC you would expect 10 years from now.

------
ratsimihah
I submitted my application for my artificial general intelligence project, see
you guys soon!

------
taway19
This is my throw away account for privacy reason. I would like to have some
advice about my career path (and to echo Sam's post regarding "it may be the
difference between going to work at a big company and starting the next
Airbnb")

I am a 22 software engineer working at Facebook right now. With the current
stock raise, my annual compensation comes out to be a bit over 200k/year
before bonuses. I am much more excited about the start-up scene and building
product. But to throw away that non-trivial income away is a really tough
decision. I am wondering if anyone has done it before or if you have a more
general advice. Much appreciated!

~~~
hannaxu
I'm a 24 year old UI/UX designer who just left my non-trivial income. Think
about it in these terms, you have 8 weeks to try something with YC or not.
Maybe more maybe less. You'll probably easily find a job right after with the
same amount of compensation and something new to add to your portfolio.

Many big companies also are fine if you take a non paid leave of absence. And
you can come back later with the same compensation. This was offered at my
company (although I didn't take it) and perhaps something you can work out
with Facebook. Perhaps ask a trusted advisor, all my managers were thrilled
that I wanted to work on something on my own. And that it was "the best reason
to leave a company."

~~~
taway19
Thank you hannaxu! It's an encouraging feeling to know that other people are
willingly taking a big leap of faith.

My family and loved ones also think I should go for it. Their main reason is:
1\. I should accumulate awesome experience right now and do what I love. 2\. A
big/small income does not have any immediate impact on my lifestyle right now.

I may as well just go for it :)

------
meteor
$12k might not seem to be a lot of money for many. But, from the place where I
come from(India) it really means a lot. We are a team of two at concept stage.
We have around $20k in savings. Assuming a worst case that we don't make any
revenue for an year, we would need an other $30k for our runway. I was
thinking about raising this money from F&F round. But now, applying to YC
seems to make more sense to me. Though the money will not cover our expenses
for an year, I am excited about the acquaintance we will be gaining through
this program.

------
cridiaz
What I found to be a really interesting differentiating factor between the YC
Fellowship and other VCs is that they were open to companies in the idea
stage. It has taken me on and off about 3 years to come up with a fashion
social media platform named MyStylist and I appreciate the chance to compete
even though I have not been able to fully execute it. I think that choosing a
company in the idea stage definitely has its risks but it can turn up to be a
very rewarding venture.

------
martinlee18
We are not actively searching for investments yet, I think the YC Fellowship
could be a great opportunity to get advices and contacts.

But I'd need some feedback: do you think we could be eligible for the
fellowship?

Here are some details:

\- startup in the SaaS space (collaboration tool for remote teams)

\- 2 founders + 2 full time employees

\- money: 300K USD from a previous exit by the founders

\- private alpha in jan 2015, public beta since may 2015, service is still
free for everybody (so: no revenues :)

\- few hundred users

I'm not sure about the "no money _from investors_ " requirement, what do you
think?

~~~
meteor
As long as you didn't take any money from outside, I believe you can make it
to fellowship.

Just curious. How are you planning to monetize from this point. When you start
charging for your service, how much churn do you expect?

------
vkan
How would YC validate on if the company has received any funding (angel, seed)
yet ? Is it not hard to validate as one of the requirement is for a company to
apply with no funding?

------
ryanSrich
Wow. I am super impressed that this is being allowed remotely. I really hope
this is foreshadowing a shift in being more supportive of remote teams for the
larger YC program.

~~~
mattkrisiloff
It's an experiment we're eager to try with this. We'll have to see how it
goes!

------
beatpanda
I really wish Sam Altman et all would stop both encouraging and requiring
teams they fund to move to the Bay Area, because it is distorting the life out
of the economy here and ruining the lives of everyone not employed in the tech
industry. And before you ask, no, the attendant increase in service industry
jobs does not balance out the damage done by the software industry. There are
other places that need the economic boost, and we're full. Thanks.

~~~
matznerd
I think yours is a very selfish attitude. The people and the atmosphere in San
Francisco and Silicon Valley are some of the biggest assets and they cannot be
found in the same way in any other cities.

~~~
beatpanda
I'm assuming "the people and the atmosphere" you're referring to are the
people and the atmosphere that has completely displaced the social life of
this part of the world that existed before it became a colony of billionaires
playing monopoly. Many of us moved here seeking a different 'people and
atmosphere' which, having been displaced, now only exists as a memory.

~~~
beatpanda
And caveat emptor to anyone responding to this, "you have to embrace
change!!!" is exactly equivalent to "I don't give a shit what happens to poor
people."

------
shaaaaawn
Love to see YC branching out to those unable to migrate to SF immediately. As
someone that's been through other incubators and been extremely underwlemed by
my experiences; this is a fantastic idea. I know YC is open to all types of
ideas and companies, but there is obviously a concentration on
software/hardware related ideas. I'm curious if YC has funded any non-
hardware/software startups? Any examples?

------
ejcx
I only hope that YCF get's back to those accepted and denied quickly.

I see this as a great program for students and if they wait too long, students
may end up in an awkward position where they are unsure whether they should
drop out for the semester, without hearing anything back from YCF.

I think it's a great program. $12,0000 is a lot of money to sit in your
apartment and hack for 2 months on whatever it is you want. Great idea.

~~~
mattkrisiloff
We plan to notify teams about interviews on August 15.

~~~
daveyjones
Hi Matt. My co-founder and I are trying to figure out how much time we would
have to make a transition to full time. If you could give us any more dates
like this, that would be very helpful. For example, over what time period will
interviews take place? When would we be notified of our acceptance or
rejection? Thank you!

------
yumraj
I find it interesting that people are finding issue with the $12K. Personally
I have kids and mortgage and I will be applying with my healthcare startup
which as it happens is in very early stages. I would have applied even if
there was no $12K since, YC is not taking any equity in this case, and, is
providing access to its network which is worth much much more than $12K to me.

~~~
achow
_> access to its network which is worth much much more than $12K_

Very true. But do not forget that this time there would be aspiring candidates
from outside USA too. For them $12K would be a huge enabler (Ex.: adjusted for
purchasing power $12K = ~$75K, for somebody who is in India).

------
mceoin
In one of his essays, PG wrote about the paradox of knowing that the success
rate of YC companies indicated that YC could absorb a lot more risk, yet was
unable to do so because spotting good ideas that look like bad ideas (or bad
ideas that could become good ideas) was incredibly difficult. I believe that
critique has been sufficiently answered.

------
nsheth17
Do teams have to pay taxes on the grant money? I'm asking because I know prize
money from things like hackathons are taxed.

$12k can last 2 months full-time for a team of 2 ($3k/mo/founder). But if
there are taxes, taking home only 65% of $12k ($8k, or $2k/mo/founder) would
probably not be enough, at least not in or around major cities.

~~~
wesleyy
it's in the faq, you have to pay taxes if your team is not incorporated.

------
sombremesa
How does this work with founders who are on a visa that does not allow them to
work in the U.S.? Does YC sponsor visas for them?

------
guiomie
Why is there a requirement of having a video ?

------
pyb
Are any startups around London, or Paris, interested in trying for a local
group ? In which case, it could make sense to staple applications together.
Please contact me (see profile), including your answer to "Please tell us in
one or two sentences about the most impressive thing that each founder has
built or achieved."

------
dschiptsov
BTW, there are places, like Nepal, where $12k could buy a lot more for a team.

Kathmandu could be a hub for backpacker coders and small teams. It is an ideal
place for coding camps and sprints - rentals are cheap.

Also it is an education hub of a small country, so there is no shortage of
English speaking CS students.

Nepal needs new visitors after earthquake.

~~~
IsaacL
I'm in Chiang Mai, Thailand right now, and $12k would also go a lot further
here. Maybe I'll look at Nepal next, and it would be interesting both for
personal adventure and to help the local economy recover... but what puts me
off is the internet speed - how fast is it out there?

~~~
dschiptsov
It is rather slow, due to limited bandwidth (Hymalayas) and lots of customers,
but it is good-enough for web, git and ssh.)

------
RandomBK
Wow! It's good to see YC sticking its neck out to grow the startup community.
I have a quick question though: as this is a remote program, will you be
willing to consider candidates living outside the United States? My team and I
are in Canada, and are currently unable to move to the States.

~~~
katm
Yes - we're happy to consider teams from anywhere in the world (as long as you
have a good internet connection).

------
ganadiniakshay
I currently have a job at Microsoft and am considering applying. The
application says I don't have to quit my job until I am accepted. However
Microsoft requires me to give a 45 day notice. So I might not be available
full time in the first week or so, will that be a problem?

------
hkmurakami
This reminds me a lot of government entrepreneurship grants (ex: Singapore)
that similarly have few strings attached, if any. I'm not sure if I've ever
heard of any such things in the US (other than those related to science
research spin outs), so this seems to fill a needed gap.

Kudos.

~~~
morgante
> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of any such things in the US (other than
> those related to science research spin outs), so this seems to fill a needed
> gap.

Many universities have such programs, but they're usually limited to their
students.

------
rjbwork
I think this would be a really cool thing to take part in for a couple of
months after leaving my current job. Not that I plan on doing that any time
soon, but I think it would be the perfect time to do so. Hopefully this
succeeds and YC decides to do it on an ongoing basis.

------
usernames_suck
This is a great idea. I would apply, as I'm actually planning on launching in
the coming weeks, but I'm a solo guy. I'm also going back to college next
month; which necessarily isn't a bad thing, as my startup is aimed towards
college kids.

------
vinceyuan
[off-topic question] I know YC asks the oversea team which got YC investment
to move to Bay Area. But how do they deal with the visa? I don't think all of
them have H1B or L1 visa. I heard a team moved to Bay Area with B1/B2 visa. Is
it legal?

~~~
vinceyuan
Any idea?

------
lhfaria
1) Will YC Fellowship companies be more keen to be accepted to the YC
traditional program?

~~~
mkagenius
According to FAQ on the website, no bias as such.

------
zodiac
Are the questions different from regular YC applications? I don't see the
"Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-
computer) system to your advantage" question I've read about

~~~
zachb
Looks like they cherry-picked a condensed list of the "most important"
questions, likely out of respect to the fact that there are only 7 days to
complete the fellowship application

------
jcrr
Hi Everybody,

We are trying to do a startup fellowship list in this link :)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=9956732](https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=9956732)

------
omouse
Definitely will be applying to this; I was going to apply for the regular
funding cycle as well (still will apply because I want a few more months of my
own time to work on an idea).

Glad to see YC experimenting with new ideas :D

~~~
hna0002
I am in a similar boat, I need some time to work on my project and introspect
on the actual product before I can even think about growth not to mentioned
growth on steroids is months/a year away. I was targeting for YC16 or later,
but I still applied thinking YC community may help with the feedback and
vendors (its a hardware project/startup), and overall pointing me in the
correct direction.

------
tuberry
YC is so great at pushing VC in the right direction. Thanks for doing this.

------
josher
This is exciting, and appears to be just for me.

One of the hardest things to do is get enough past the idea stage to get to a
prototype to attract an investor. A little cash can make that happen a whole
lot faster.

------
mafuyu
My school requires a financial commitment by mid-August so unfortunately, I'm
not able to apply without taking a risk. Something to consider if you continue
with the program.

------
mmaunder
Commenting on just the first couple of lines: I'd say that what YC has
contributed to, is to change the definition of what a startup is - which has
had a multiplying effect.

------
hasenj
What qualities do you look for in founders? Is it the same set of qualities
you look for in the normal YC application? A little bit more relaxed? A little
bit more strict?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
It's the same. Read this:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html)

------
ohitsdom
Great program, well done YC.

Also a good case study on what makes a good intro/landing page for a product.
Quite a few "so how is this different" questions in these comments.

------
gargarplex
A truly incredible opportunity. Thank you for your leadership.

------
gg4u
Can an applicant apply within two teams? I read not possible for a team apply
with two projects, I am asking if a member can be mentioned into two different
teams.

------
ismail
This is awesome.

YC reputation has grown in the last few years. Raising the bar quite high,
making it much harder to get in at the earliest stages. I believe this is the
reason for this.

------
Tunecrew
A silly question, but do you have exact dates for kickoff, etc? This is both
awesome and serendipitous, but I have a family wedding in roughly mid-
September :)

------
Katk
Quick on the funding constraint. I've raised money on Kickstarter recently and
am still in prototyping phase. Would I be able to apply? Thanks so much. :)

------
jake_ys
Well if nothing else, applying to the fellowship introduced me to Hacker News.
I thought it must only be programming-related, but this is awesome.

------
wwwarsame
This is great. Doing YC remotely sounds like a good plan for founders with
children and a job that won't allow them to take time off.

------
hmexx
This sounds similar to my HN proposition from a couple years ago, only 10x
better for the applicants. Damn you Ycombinator! :)

~~~
honzzz
How did it turn out? As far as I can tell, the last time you published
something about it was the blogpost[1] from 9th February 2013 where you said
that 5 MVPs were greenlighted. Did any of them gain any significant traction?

[1] [http://hnproposition.blogspot.cz/2013/02/first-5-mvps-
green-...](http://hnproposition.blogspot.cz/2013/02/first-5-mvps-green-
lighted.html)

------
wiseleo
Thank you, this is ideal for my product. I am going to submit the application
as soon as I am done with the video.

------
vishalzone2002
can people working on side-projects/ideas while having a Full time job take
part in this?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
You can definitely apply while still having your job, but you must be willing
to work on it full-time for at least the duration of the Fellowship program.
We hope you'll commit to it longer than that too -- if your startup is
promising, you'll be working on it for many years to come.

~~~
vishalzone2002
sweet. thanks !

------
longv
Flying to Bay Area is still recommended. The odd for an application out of U.S
is low.

------
ncodes
This is a great. Finally, early stage ideas can get some support. Good one YC.

------
dspoka
How important is it for this Fellowship to have a flushed out Business Model?

~~~
mattkrisiloff
If you have good ideas, that's great, but it's not that important. We
primarily want to see that you and your co-founders are a very determined,
smart team working on an interesting idea. We expect a lot of ideas to keep
evolving as teams work on their companies, and any business models would of
course change with that as well.

Don't try to send us business plans -- we won't look at them.

------
ycf2015
Are you guys willing to accept a solo hw startup founder from USA?

------
mrchess
The "Save Draft" feature does not work on Submittable. FYI

------
acpmasquerade
going thru the comments, its seems that the remote consideration is going to
be the charm as well as the biggest challenge.

------
billconan
this is great, but the real obstacle for me is the green card. I'm on h1b,
can't do anything. :(

~~~
ghufran_syed
You can still do the fellowship: the h1b rules say you're not allowed to take
other paid employment, but the fellowship will not be employment. Think of it
as working for free on your project + winning a (very small) lottery :)

~~~
billconan
no, I can't. they said I have to work full-time during that 8 weeks.

~~~
YogeeKnows
You can take vacation as much as you can take or go on a 8 week trip to India.
I mean If YC takes you under it arms are you not willing to carve out 8 weeks
for it?

------
dj_doh
Golden. Neat idea!

------
Preseed
We will be applying with www.todoed.co and www.myidealist.co

------
achow
I compiled some Q&A from YCombinator partners that were relevant for me.

 _Is this US-only?_

Nope, welcome to apply from anywhere. But..

Unfortunately we don't have the bandwidth to get involved with visas before or
during the program :( If you can't do it from the Bay Area though, you can
still apply to do it remotely--we want to try working with remote teams!

\-------------

 _" We encourage you to come to Mountain View if you can make it, but remote
interviews over video chat will be okay too ..." For remote teams with viable
ideas that YC is interested in funding, how remote can such teams be? Can
teams apply from outside the US; from Europe, Asia or Africa?_

Yes absolutely. Teams from anywhere in the world are welcome to apply. We just
ask that you have a strong internet connection that allows for clear, reliable
video chats.

\-------------

 _How many teams are you hoping to accept into the fellowship for the first
round?_

About 20 -- we want to keep it a small experiment for this test batch.

\-------------

 _What are key differences b /w the fellowship and the YC incubator?_

It's a 12k equity-free grant, it lasts for 8 weeks, you can do it remotely,
and it's primarily meant for idea and prototype-stage companies. No dinners
and no formal Demo Day, but there will be kickoff and end events in Mountain
View where teams will present to the YC community. We'll fly out remote teams
for those.

\-------------

 _Will we have to pay taxes on the grant?_

If you’ve already incorporated, you shouldn’t have to; as long as you are
spending the grant on expenses for your business, you should be able to write
it off. If you have not yet incorporated, you will have to pay some taxes.
We’ll go over this in more detail with accepted teams.

\-------------

 _What kind of progress do you expect founders to make by the end of the
Fellowship? Put another way, if the goal of participation in Y Combinator is
for companies to build enough traction to become top-tier candidates for an
institutional fundraise, what is the outcome that participants in the
Fellowship should hope to achieve?_

We'd like teams to make as much progress as possible during the 8-weeks of the
fellowship. If you have a prototype, that would mean launching and getting
your first customers. If you're at idea stage that would mean building a
prototype and talking to users. At the end of the 8-weeks we hope the teams
will be ready to apply for YC W16 (it's not a requirement -- but we'll
encourage it).

\-------------

 _What qualities do you look for in founders? Is it the same set of qualities
you look for in the normal YC application? A little bit more relaxed? A little
bit more strict?_

It's the same. Read this:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html)

\-------------

------
curiousjorge
This is fairly aligned with what I described before, making tiny bets or
investments across large number of individuals or startups.

Having said that $12,000 is too small of a figure to make a realistic impact.
Rather it would be better to focus on boostrapping and making that amount
every month, and continually reinvest in your business.

~~~
mattkrisiloff
YC's first batch, the Summer Founders Program, was just 6k per founder for
5-7% equity -- teams were expected to make that last for three months (as
opposed to YCF's two), and were required to pick up and move on top of that.
That funding was enough for Reddit to get started, and we think there will be
other great founders who will be able to start good companies with this amount
too.

------
s73v3r
Any mention of health insurance, or other things like that? One of the biggest
reasons people do go to work for large companies instead of starting their own
business is things like that. Without them, you're really only targeting the
young kids right out of school, most of whom (but not all) don't really need
that much in healthcare.

~~~
logn
Older people are more likely to have a spouse with insurance or to already be
freelancing/contracting and used to providing their own insurance. Even in the
days before Obamacare, I think there was a short time you were allowed to be
uninsured without being excluded by insurance companies. COBRA also helps fill
the gaps (in addition to Obamacare itself).

~~~
s73v3r
Right, but the COBRA premiums could easily eat up a significant chunk of that
grant.

------
anon1385
>We understand that $12,000 is not a lot of money, and this won’t make sense
for everyone. But for some people, it may be the difference between going to
work at a big company and starting the next Airbnb.

Maybe if the founders of AirBnB had been given $12,000 they wouldn't have
needed to make money though illegal spamming.

~~~
vonklaus
Interesting, I haven't heard about this. Could you speak more to the illegal
spamming allegation?

~~~
anon1385
[http://gawker.com/5853754/the-seedy-spammy-past-of-
airbnbs-c...](http://gawker.com/5853754/the-seedy-spammy-past-of-airbnbs-co-
founder)

