
Yes, And – How to be effective in the theatre of work - jger15
https://tomcritchlow.com/2019/11/18/yes-and/
======
topcat31
Author here - thanks for all the comments and feedback. Lovely surprise to
wake up to this on the HN homepage.

Some light additional context - this is part of my ongoing series "The
Strategic Independent" which will eventually become a book sometime next year.
All the posts in that series are catalogued here: [https://www.are.na/tom-
critchlow/the-strategic-independent](https://www.are.na/tom-critchlow/the-
strategic-independent)

This post (and the whole series) is designed for independent consultants,
free-agents and freelancers who have to navigate entering and exiting client
environments often faster than full-time employees. Hopefully there's
something useful in that context but many of these ideas could be applicable
beyond that also.

Anyway - thanks for the love. If you have topic suggestions for future posts
in this series would love to hear them! Thanks, Tom.

~~~
adenverd
> Hopefully there's something useful in that context but many of these ideas
> could be applicable beyond that also.

They’re very applicable outside the context of consulting - they’re
fundamental for any leader joining a new organization to integrate well and
get things done. Consultants transition more often than most; the principles
you’ve shared are a great reference for the rest of us on how to be effective
in a new environment.

------
salamanderman
As someone who has studied improv for three years, and read both of Keith
Johnstone's books numerous times, I highly recommend reading Johnstone's books
specifically, rather than this. It's true that improv is immensely useful in
the workplace. However, this article has very little that references
Johnstone; it seems to be taking the high level, general understanding of
improv as a jumping off point for their own advice. Their chapters to follow
do reflect some of the topics Johnstone covers, but again, I highly recommend
just reading Impro and/or taking a couple improv classes at your local school
if you can. Getting it straight from the source will be incredibly helpful in
your work and personal life.

~~~
topcat31
Author here - Yes I would _definitely_ recommend reading Impro over reading my
blog post.

The basic premise for this series is inspired by the book and I definitely
borrow more directly and heavily for chapters 3 and 4 (which aren't quite
ready to publish yet!).

------
yamrzou
« Many people aspire to “silent success” at work - to do work that “speaks for
itself”. Unfortunately this is the wrong move in the theatre of work. Instead
we should aspire to the opposite - for knowledge work, the performance of the
work is the work. »

Not sure what the author means by “knowledge work”, but I find this very true,
for any type of work.

~~~
debt
Furthermore, work doesn’t speak so you’ll have to speak for it. And defend it.
And sell it.

~~~
phkahler
While writing embedded code I realized a major problem with code relative to
the rest of the product. You can't see it, can't touch it, and it doesnt
appear on the bill of material. To most people it doesnt even exist. This
would be somewhat different if your product IS software, but the same still
applies to the actual code - the author is the only one who will ever _see_
what they wrote.

~~~
analog31
Count your blessings. My job involves typically big pieces that are visible to
anybody who looks under the hood. And they are often expensive custom pieces,
so it's painful to add or modify one.

When stuff is visible and tactile, folks assume that they should intuitively
understand it. So my work is subjected to endless critique and brainstorming
from everybody, including managers.

Sometimes I envy the embedded systems people because nobody ever looks at the
innards of their designs.

~~~
phkahler
>> Sometimes I envy the embedded systems people because nobody ever looks at
the innards of their designs.

True, but the flip side is that nobody understands the complexity. Some will
assume it must be easy, especially if you keep quiet about the challenges and
just deliver mostly good stuff.

To your point, I was working on a hybrid system and one meeting dragged on
because marketing was upset that the font was changed on the inverter. It was
machined into the case, and they couldn't make the sharp interior angles
needed. So yeah, even when you can see it, there may be hidden complexity.

------
erikerikson
Yes, once some workers start using social tools to advantage themselves and
their work, it does become mandatory to use them too. The incentive is then to
escalate and invest more in social machinations.

And be endlessly positive about everyone and their ideas so that only positive
feelings are associated with you. Choose your favorites by directing attention
and investment. Ignore the unkept promises or implications since they will be
to the less popular people and projects which are inherently less powerful.

May all bullets be directed to backs and all knifes sheathed likewise.

There is some importance to keeping a pleasant and encouraging workplace but
some of us value honesty and straightforwardness as well as the efficiencies
that go with these practices. These require real work however.

~~~
ailideex
Hard pass but have at it.

------
mjparrott
A lesson I found helpful is with regards to the need to build a network of
mentors, supporters and followers. This won’t apply to all fields but maybe
some people will find it helpful.

Mentors are people who you can go to when you’re stuck on a topic, regardless
of what it is. They help you navigate through your org (politics, context
behind decisions, etc). These people can be in your team/department or could
just be someone you’ve met by the water cooler and developed a relationship
with.

Supporters are similar to mentors, but more committed. These people will take
their own initiative and go out of their way to create opportunities for you.
They consider your success as a part of their own success and therefore will
do what they can to help you grow and develop.

Followers are people who you’ve either worked side by side with, or who have
worked for you. You may take on the mentor or supporter role for them. If you
switched teams or departments, these people would want to come with you.

~~~
afarrell
Do you know of a good guide to building a single relationship with a mentor?
It is something I have been trying to do for the past 8 years.

I suspect that the advice I need is “obvious”.

------
doublerebel
The "Yes, And" technique is best when presenting as a team, e.g. for sales
meeting or investment pitch. It supports what your colleague is saying even
while you may need to make a correction. I've been automatically using this
technique for years, since I have a performance and improv background.

The rest of improv may not be as applicable, but performance sure does! The
show must go on (despite unexpected setbacks or illness or personal feelings),
how to speak in front of crowds (even while being ridiculed or ignored), being
fully prepared through scripts and rehearsals until you embody the story you
are trying to tell... Is an integral part of leading startups and I credit
much of my success to that experience.

If everyone on your team is fully embedded in the purpose and ethos of your
story, than you can fill in for each other if someone drops a line or needs a
stand-in. In a startup everyone is selling! And it will be much more authentic
with this level of camaraderie and committment.

~~~
gherkinnn
I see its value when mostly in agreement. Keeps the flow going.

But how does one do "yes, and ...", when the previous statement is clearly
wrong? You either sound sarcastic or like a patronising twat.

"It is snowing." "Yes, and I'll leave my sweater at home since it's rather
warm outside."

~~~
mntmoss
In an actual scene, you also have an underlying set of game rules guiding it
which the actors are negotiating through.

It is possible for the characters to disagree with each other if it's not
_blocking_ \- it allows the scene to continue to develop instead of shutting
it down. In this case, disagreement over the weather would become the focus of
the action.

"It is snowing."

"Oh, what a kidder you are, Smith! Just look at the shorts I'm wearing, it's
fun in the sun time."

"Jones, my breath is visible. You are clearly on a different planet from me."

"Well, as it so happens, I AM an alien!" _pause for laughter_

\--

And yes, there's a limit to the method when in a business setting. Business
machinery is set up to grind out ugly, practical compromises and can't inject
fantasy into the equation like that very often in the lower branches of the
org, but it often benefits from this creativity when we're talking about
executive leadership figuring out what the org needs to look like to succeed
in the future.

~~~
nimblegorilla
> "It is snowing." > "Oh, what a kidder you are, Smith! Just look at the
> shorts I'm wearing, it's fun in the sun time."

That’s almost a textbook example of the opposite of Yes And philosophy.
Contradicting the reality established by another performer is called Negation.

Disagreement within the YesAnd framework can be tricky to describe. A better
example:

“This sucks. It’s snowing” “Yes, and now we can finally go skiing. I’m so
excited!”

------
mjw1007
I think there's one case where saying a plan won't work is the right thing to
do, and trying to "get to yes" will often be a mistake: when you understand
what needs to be done, and the (time or money) budget is too small.

If you try to "get to yes", it will often happen that the person in the
position of the client will respond by cutting scope, saying "well, we don't
really need that part just now".

And then it will usually turn out that they really did want what they
originally said they wanted, and maybe try to sneak the features back in in
disguise, and the whole thing overruns or else you end up saying no in a
position where everyone is worse off than if you'd said no to start with.

I think they should teach Bridge in management school. Often not being in a
contract is the right answer!

------
jaytaylor
Chapter 2 is also available:

"Optimism as an Operating System"

[https://tomcritchlow.com/2019/11/19/optimism-operating-
syste...](https://tomcritchlow.com/2019/11/19/optimism-operating-system/)

I'm really looking forward to chapter 4, "Status Switching", as it's a skill
I'm very keen to further develop.

I wish I could get an email as soon as it's posted.

~~~
svmegatron
I think you can - there is a link to sign up for the newsletter at the bottom
of the page

~~~
topcat31
Author here: yes I have an email list here (infrequent) that I'll post a
message to once chapters 3 and 4 are ready:
[https://tinyletter.com/tomcritchlow](https://tinyletter.com/tomcritchlow)

------
xrd
Lots of comments here come off as very resistant to accepting the ideas
presented here: that success at work is as much about the quality of your work
as the effort made to connect with the humans in an organization evaluating
the work. Improv is a perfect frame for this: entertaining but doing deep
preparation for that entertainment.

What I'm really fascinated by is how this can be translated to remote working.
I don't think water-cooler talk is possible in Slack. I would be really
surprised to find anyone at the top of performance in any organization that
isn't fully remote without resorting to Machiavellian tactics. I wonder if the
stresses you saw at GitHub during their period of centralizing management in
SF after really marketing themselves as remote first were evidence of this.

~~~
ramphastidae
> I would be really surprised to find anyone at the top of performance in any
> organization that isn't fully remote without resorting to Machiavellian
> tactics.

Can confirm. Switching to a fully remote company was eye-opening. The politics
are much worse than my office jobs.

Everything is back-channeled. So many secret private Slack channels and
exclusive in-person meetups where actual decisions are made.

At least in the office you could get a sense of the political landscape after
a few weeks of meetings — I was unaware of how my remote organization actually
worked for over a year until I raised some concerns and a co-worker clued me
in.

The shocking thing wasn’t that a remote company has politics, but that the
entire company ethos was based on how much more transparent and less political
fully remote organizations are.

~~~
xrd
This says it. Yikes.

~~~
cs02rm0
FWIW it hasn't been my experience.

I've spent about 9 years working with a fully remote company. The back
channels exist, mostly as video calls in slack, but to me that's no different
than a conversation in a quiet corner of the office. You can usually sniff out
who talks to who and what the relationships are like.

I find you do have to call people though, if you isolate yourself in a remote
company it's probably even more, well, isolating. No one's going to
accidentally bump into you.

------
specialist
An interview with D'Arcy Carden
([https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3639013/](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3639013/))
about her stand out performance on The Good Place
([https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4955642/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4955642/))
was the first I'd heard about "Yes, And...". Got me curious about improv.
Previously, I equated it to standup comedy.

D'Arcy Carden: The goal is to make the other person(s) look awesome.

I wish I could tell younger me to study improv, to hear this nugget of wisdom,
before joining the work force. Might have saved myself and everyone else a lot
of heart ache.

------
dominotw
> they’re asking for people to take positions and have opinions.

Yes only positions and opinions that make them look good.

For example, in a tech all hands. "Ask" questions like these

1\. How did the upper management react to cost savings from initiative X.

2\. How did vendor feel about us canceling their contract by building a
cheaper home grown system that is saving us X million $ every year.

3\. What is the strategy for filling out open positions faster. ( we are doing
so good that we have way too many open positions)

4\. "joke questions" , did CEO actually finish 50 pies in pie eating contest
at the management retreat ,like he claims he did.

also, consultants rarely get invited to these all hands in the first place.

~~~
izacus
And what exactly did you / would you think to accomplish with these questions?
Besides attempting to publicly humiliate people who're paying you and stroking
your own ego?

"Questions" like these put other people on defensive (which means they won't
listen to you anymore) and mark you out as an a*hole (which means they won't
listen to you at all). It's counterproductive.

I'm always baffled how engineers don't get that: they can understand that you
need to write "printf()" and not "abort()" to achieve printout, but can't
understand simple rules on how to achieve results when interacting with other
people?

~~~
dominotw
> attempting to publicly humiliate people who're paying you

No it's the opposite.

How does highlighting millions of cost savings from CTO's initiative humiliate
him?

I am confused how you got that impression from my comment. what did i miss.

~~~
jt2190
Not the commenter, and I understood what you were getting at, however, your
original post doesn’t specify _who_ is being asked the questions. It’s implied
you’re asking the CTO, but it’s never clearly stated.

That said, this is a good reminder for everyone to “read generously”: If you
read something that seems absurd, take a minute to make sure you’re not just
misunderstanding the post. Posts often gloss over context, and so you should
try to rebuild that context.

------
codingdave
Second City, a well-known improv club/school offers workshops to teams focused
on exactly these concepts. My team went to one of their workshops in Chicago a
few years back, and while it was not world-changing, at was eye-opening.

[https://www.secondcityworks.com/](https://www.secondcityworks.com/)

------
east2west
It is rather interesting that this is on the front page with "Authenticity
promotes well-being in life and at work" [1]. I don't believe they are
opposite, but it is difficult to achieve both. However, publicizing individual
work is absolutely crucial for promotion or even keeping one's job. My
personal take is to build something concrete, something other people find
useful.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21666569](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21666569)

------
rpmisms
Thanks for a great article. I want to share this with some stressed
colleagues, but I doubt they'd appreciate it. Many people in America take the
theatre seriously, and thinking of it as such would be detrimental to their
self-image.

------
bigred100
In my opinion just look around and see what the successful people are doing.
Putting your head down and working is what I’d do for developing my own
technical or something else skills. I.e. studying. Nobody I’ve met who gets
high success in an office job does that.

I wonder if there’s not something to read into this a bit beyond my current
abilities. Many people work on things that they consider somewhat boring, or
at least not at the boundary of their skill set. People above you in the
organization spent a lot of time building “synergies” and organizing a team of
people frankly (in most cases) somewhat overqualified for the task. It seems
like throwing all that out by not integrating enough into the social group is
a terrible idea.

~~~
amelius
Imho, if you're successful without working hard, you have "hacked" the system,
and like any form of hacking this should be punishable, in this case e.g. by
degradation.

If only we had a system where (special) judges were able to determine who
works hard and who doesn't and from there decide who gets what amount of pay,
and who deserves a promotion. We could actually have a fair society.

~~~
vageli
> Imho, if you're successful without working hard, you have "hacked" the
> system, and like any form of hacking this should be punishable, in this case
> e.g. by degradation.

> If only we had a system where (special) judges were able to determine who
> works hard and who doesn't and from there decide who gets what amount of
> pay, and who deserves a promotion. We could actually have a fair society.

Why should pay be based on how hard one works? I know when I started my career
I had to work _much_ harder, because I had not yet been around the block so to
speak. As time went on I became much more efficient with my time, experience
makes it easier to see patterns, etc.

So if the metric is how hard one works, as I get better at my job I'd actually
get paid less?

~~~
amelius
Well, if you like you can replace "works hard" by "is efficient". Or something
in between, depending on what you think is fair.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
There is no "if you like." It's _your_ statement, justify it.

------
splittingTimes
From another thread I saw the recommendation for "Getting to Yes, and... The
art of business improv"[1]. It just arrived yesterday. This blog post looks
eerily similar.

===

[1]
[https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/0804795800/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?key...](https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/0804795800/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?keywords=yes+and&qid=1575120878&sr=8-8)

------
gremlin001
I unfortunately recognize several of these as being true from my five years at
BigCo. Is this advice true of a (tiny) startup as well? Work should speak for
itself when the survival of a company depends on it, right? I'd like to know
if it's the same on the other side.

~~~
elwell
I've only worked at tiny startups; I would say in the majority of cases, work
speaks for itself. One thing to consider though, if you're producing good
code... why would you be promoted to a position of mostly managing others? The
company would no longer benefit from you as an IC. At tiny startups, even the
CTO is spending a lot of time coding.

~~~
generatorguy
You can only code so much as you can - your output is limited to your skill,
ability to learn, work ethic or determination, and time. There are all kinds
of things that can waste your time - programming something that wasn’t
required, programming something in a way that becomes a problem later on,
oversights and other mistakes, but hopefully with experience you waste less of
your own time by learning from all these previous less than optimal decisions.
Now if there is more work to do than you personally want to do - it would just
consume your life - maybe it is time to get some help, and then you are
managing your helper in some way by guiding what they work on to help you out
in the way that helps you get more work done than you could have by yourself.
And then you get another helper, and another, and soon enough the team of
programmers you are managing can produce more than you could have ever done by
yourself. You don’t write much code anymore but You help your team solve
problems with the building blocks you have, and keep them on the right path
when customers and other forces will try to benefit themselves at your teams
expense.

------
DoctorNick
This article is about as insufferable as most improv groups.

~~~
gatherhunterer
Yes! And about as annoying as a manager whose job is to talk about work
without actually doing any.

~~~
brennanpeterson
The job of a manger is to differentiate work from talk about work. That is why
there are managers at different levels, and that is their core function.

If someone can talk their way into a promotion, that is either a sales
organization, or a great sign of a failing company. Or a strategy group.

A version of this is available every day: commercial journalism is the act of
promoting good writing over good thinking. Usually for the same reasons as
most bad plans: ideas structured by analogy, visualization, and context free
approximation.

Anyway, this is a good article, and because it is often true, one worth
pushing back against.

------
glitchc
I’m disappointed with articles like this. If I wanted to be in sales, I
wouldn’t be in engineering. Not everything is about marketing. Some people
need to, and daresay, enjoy building things, otherwise nothing would ever get
built. This salesification of all business strata is strictly an American
phenomenon, and will eventually be the death of American industry. Already our
major exports are media and pop culture that exemplify this phenomenon. Now
engineers are supposed to market themselves? No wonder we don’t manufacture
anything worth exporting anymore.

------
mmanfrin
Sincere plea to everyone who does frontend: please knock it off with the on-
select rich media shit. I am a compulsive selecter (and I know there are
others like me). I like to select text as I read and it's jarring to have
_annotations_ pop up on the side as I do it.

~~~
synthmeat
Are you a double-clicker or just selector?

I'm a double-clicker and I know of many others. I don't know many "selectors".
In that spirit, they should just ignore double-clicking in whatever they wanna
present for selections.

~~~
mmanfrin
Both. I do this up-and-down selection where I select from above and then from
below big chunks of text, and then occasionally (I think when I'm
concentrating on a specific sentence) I'll doubleclick a word a bunch to
select the word and then the paragraph back and forth.

------
gormo2
Very interesting to see this at the top of HN literally just after reading
"Human Capital: a Horror Story"

[https://amgreatness.com/2019/11/27/human-capital-a-horror-
st...](https://amgreatness.com/2019/11/27/human-capital-a-horror-story/)

~~~
jtr1
Good lord, what a schlocky piece of propaganda this is.

~~~
pjc50
The person responsible desperately needs to be happy, but is far more invested
in their own supremacy to actually enjoy human contact.

