
Calorie per Dollar List – Eat for 21 Dollars a Week - iamnothere
https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/
======
redm
I'd much rather see a breakdown of cheap foods with a high nutrient density
[1], not just garbage food that's cheap.

[https://chriskresser.com/what-is-nutrient-density-and-why-
is...](https://chriskresser.com/what-is-nutrient-density-and-why-is-it-
important/)

~~~
QuantumAphid
Here you go: Liver, heart, kidney, eggs, canned
mackerel/sardines/oysters/clams. Hard to beat these-- they usually range from
dirt cheap to cheap-when-on-sale/discount.

~~~
yomly
Oysters and clams are cheap????

~~~
simias
Depends where you live and the time of the year. Clams in particular can be
dirt cheap.

~~~
yomly
Oh whoops - I just remembered that once upon a time in Orlando you could get
them at like half a doller an oyster. Here in the UK you can easily spend up
to £5 a shuck

------
rchaud
I think the list is a good starting point in terms of raw data, but what's
with the donation ask on the side of the screen? It's just a list, and it's
deficient in a number of ways, the biggest of them being that there's more to
the "efficiency" of food than protein and calories per dollar.

Also this copy strikes me as the kind of sales-y humblebrag I see in
fitness/self-improvement style online courses sold by "digital nomads":

> We graduated college, Masters and PhD. No Debt.

Why ask for donations then?

Don't fellowships and research grants already cover graduate school tuition?
MS/Phd students aren't rich by any means, but they do receive a teaching
stipend in addition to not paying tuition.

I get a weird vibe from the way the material on the site is communicated.

~~~
x2f10
I've browsed the website a number of times and I have never figured out how to
/use/ the information. I suspect it's useless as a proper diet stretches far
beyond calories and protein.

------
rikkus
I spent a few months eating for £5 per week - not through choice. Most of what
I ate was marked down (nearly out of date) loaves of white sliced bread and
damaged cans of beans or spaghetti in tomato sauce. I’m quite tall so this
wasn’t enough and after a few weeks I was in constant pain from hunger. There
are many people in the UK for whom this is their life.

~~~
toasterlovin
Curious: why not beg or dumpster dive if you were starving? I personally know
somebody who used to panhandle at a freeway exit for drug money. They said
$80-120 per day was regular. I also know someone who fed themselves entirely
via picking through unwanted food at the back of super markets and restaurants
(kind of a loopy hippie, live in a tent in the forest while attending college,
etc.).

~~~
chrisswanda
Head over to [http://fallingfruit.org](http://fallingfruit.org) and do a
filter for "Freegan". My locale has people marking dumpsters with food that is
available. And if dumpster diving isn't your thing, then wild edibles is
another option. I personally haven't dumpster dove for food, but based on what
I have read, you'd be hard pressed to starve in the US.

[http://fallingfruit.org/sharing?c=forager%2Cfreegan&locale=e...](http://fallingfruit.org/sharing?c=forager%2Cfreegan&locale=en)

------
ph0rque
Here is my list of foods that provide complete nutrition, that can be grown on
an average-sized yard lot: [https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/08/complete-
nutrition-no...](https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/08/complete-nutrition-no-
mammal.html)

Edit: I need to replace the stevia with honey, much more realistic from the
advice I got.

~~~
iamnothere
Thanks for this. Do you have any recommendations for a DIY aquaponics setup?
I've seen a lot of setups using PVC pipe although I'm not clear on how safe
that is for food over the long term.

~~~
ph0rque
I actually have a ready-to-go DIY aquaponics plan using wading pools (HDPE)
and PEX piping (no PVC), and two more plans in the works: indoor shelf system,
and outdoor pond aquaponics system. If you don't mind, sign up for my mailing
list, I plan to send out an email about aquaponics today:
[https://automicrofarm.com/](https://automicrofarm.com/).

Edit: sent! Here's the MailChimp link:
[https://mailchi.mp/2d3dc4e6d467/0i2wfpoxfe-1347869](https://mailchi.mp/2d3dc4e6d467/0i2wfpoxfe-1347869)

------
chiefalchemist
Helpful. But I think he sounds somewhat naive about why people buy what they
buy.

"why do people think canned meats are a good deal?”

Canned meats don't go bad. You also don't have to thaw them out. I'm certainly
no fan, but I can understand why people keep such things handy. What is the
cost of running to the market more often because you refuse to buy such
things? Time, after all, is money.

"we have no idea what nutrition costs."

There's more to nutrition than protein.

Yes, I think there's something here. But as-is it's a bit too simplistic. It
needs some meat; pun intended ;)

~~~
cbhl
"The most inexpensive fast food item is almost 2 times more expensive than
eating at home"

My read of this is that if you can save more than $1000/month by not having a
kitchen (say, you're in college or a high-cost-of-living area) then it might
be worth it to eat out every day.

~~~
chiefalchemist
I think that's saying the opposite. That is, it's cheaper to eat at home. I
think we all know this.

But what is the cost (time) of going to the market? How often do you toss
something out? Perhaps, not the best example, but Taco Bell is counter to hand
to mouth. There's some overhead in waiting (but still shorter than cooking),
but no waste.

~~~
cbhl
Yes, it says the contrapositive.

I feel like a lot of advice of the form "it's cheaper to eat at home" comes
from fairly privileged folks (middle class and up). If you don't a priori have
a kitchen, then you might have to double your rent expense to afford a place
where you can cook and eat at home.

Now, if you have a kitchen -- and many folks do -- then perfectly solid
advice.

------
Fenrisulfr
I love this type of list. I'm frugal, super busy (read: lazy), and powerlift
so I try to make a minimum-cost, high-protein, easy meal-prep every week.
Having a high protein / calorie ratio is primary, but keeping it low-cost is a
close second. I normally use a pressure cooker, 5-6 lbs of chicken breast,
brown rice, and lots of veggies. It may sound boring, but it's great when you
add stuff like chickpeas, delicious sauces / salsas, and try out different
regional styles of cuisine. Check out the author's protein / dollar list -
it's very helpful for the protein-obsessed.

[https://efficiencyiseverything.com/applying-protein-per-
doll...](https://efficiencyiseverything.com/applying-protein-per-dollar/)

~~~
toasterlovin
If you can tolerate lactose, milk is the cheapest way to eat a good balance of
high quality protein, fat, and carbs. 2400 calories for less than $3 at most
grocery stores.

Then chicken is the lowest cost per calorie meat, so you're good there. May I
also suggest large quantities of cheddar cheese and heavy whipping cream from
Costco? Amazing value per dollar spent. Cheddar cheese (we have Tillamook at
Costco out here on the west coast) is basically entirely protein and fat and
then whipping cream is all fat.

~~~
Fenrisulfr
I love the Costco Tillamook cheddar and my girlfriend loves the whipped cream
we get from there. I used to drink 2-4 cups of whole milk / day when paying
off my student loans and bulking but it seemed to affect my stomach poorly. So
I switched to almond milk for my protein shakes.

Some of my favorite ways to make tasty chicken + rice dishes from Costco is
the Maya Kaimal simmer sauce the frozen stir fry vegetable mix. The simmer
sauce isn't the cheapest option, but I pay extra to make my normally
boring/cheap food taste good enough to eat for 5+ days straight. I use my
pressure cooker and end up with super tasty Indian meals without the chicken
being overcooked.

Kirkland Signature unsalted mixed nuts are also a lifesaver and a part of my
daily breakfast. Decent calories / dollar (400 ish depending on the price) but
great nutrition density.

~~~
toasterlovin
I love people who geek out about optimizing their diet.

> The simmer sauce isn't the cheapest option, but I pay extra to make my
> normally boring/cheap food taste good enough to eat for 5+ days straight

This is a great example of something that is more expensive in theory, but
probably cheaper in practice, since it increases overall adherence to your
diet plan.

> I love the Costco Tillamook cheddar

If you can't do lactose, then the pricing on Tillamook cheddar is basically
the protein & fat portion of milk, without the very cheap carb calories. Carbs
are always cheap to add via other sources anyway...

------
iamnothere
In case people don't read to the bottom:

* Author's cookbook: [https://efficiencyiseverything.com/The-Cookbook-v-1.4.pdf](https://efficiencyiseverything.com/The-Cookbook-v-1.4.pdf)

* Author's weekly grocery list: [https://efficiencyiseverything.com/Weekly_Groceries.pdf](https://efficiencyiseverything.com/Weekly_Groceries.pdf)

~~~
atomical
Interesting social media strategy.

[https://twitter.com/eieMichaelKirk/status/102609142423065804...](https://twitter.com/eieMichaelKirk/status/1026091424230658048)

~~~
schnevets
Aaaaanndd he deleted it.

The guy was talking about reporting images of "obese" people on Instagram,
lest other users think that behavior is acceptable. The accompanying
screenshot was him on the Report pop-up, with the background image being 4
normal looking women posing for an engagement party or something.

~~~
sct202
His latest tweet is an apology tweet, so he must be monitoring this thread.

~~~
schnevets
Good on him for acknowledging it instead of just hiding that action. To me, a
delete means "I no longer want people to know about this thing", but an
apology in the same medium means "This thing is no longer representative of
who I am".

------
shmageggy
I would like to see a version of this list (and the nutrient/calorie list)
modified for ethically raised meat and other animal products. Sure chicken can
be dirt cheap, but often that's enabled by raising them in unconscionable
conditions.

~~~
GordonS
The way we allow farmed animals to be raised is, honestly, _horrifying_.

I'm a meat eater, but I try to ensure I never buy meat or eggs unless the
animal has been raised in good conditions.

In the past when money was tight, if I couldn't afford such meat, I'd just go
without meat.

TBH, I don't really understand why governments allow animals to be kept in
terrible conditions. I get that lobbying is strong in the US, but what about
elsewhere? Or am I mistaken, are there countries that have good laws in place
around animal welfare?

------
rayssgyms
Efficiency is not everything when it comes to nutrition.

Once someone is beyond being able to procure enough food to survive, utility
is important to quality of life and long term health. What sort of utility?

1) Total caloric intake depending on if the goal is maintenance, weight loss,
or weight gain.

2) Macronutrient split depending on specific health and/or performance goals.
E.G. high protein for strength trainees.

3) Micronutrient split and density for general health and/or to correct
deficiencies. For example, many people are Vitamin D deficient.

4) Mental health. An extreme approach to diet can create eating disorders and
may lead to social isolation.

As with most things in life, there is a cost/benefit equation associated with
nutrition choices, and focusing purely on efficiency most certainly has its
costs - some of which are not obvious. Those costs can have a negative impact
on short-term and long-term health. Health is easy to take for granted - until
there’s an issue.

The point of my post? I hope that the takeaway from this article isn’t: “make
cost efficiency your primary goal in food selection,” but rather, “carefully
evaluate your specific situation, establish nutrition goals, and treat food
intake like a solution to a problem - just make sure the problem(s) are very
well defined.”

This advice applies to those that have the discretionary funds to facilitate
this level of selectiveness, which I’m guessing applies to most people reading
this.

------
djrogers
Here's the best part of TFA for me:

"We graduated college, Masters and PhD. No Debt."

Good for you. I know it's a lot harder, but as we've been seeing over teh past
5-10 years, borrowing money to live on while you're in school will really mess
up the next 10-20-30 years of your life.

------
username90
This list looks wrong, you get way more than 1600 calories for $1 of pasta.
1kg of pasta is roughly 3,500 calories and shouldn't cost much more than a
dollar. They must buy some very expensive brand to pay over $2 per kg,
typically you can get it for less than $1 per kg...

Edit: Fixed calories per kg of dry pasta. Their value is still off though.

Edit again: I used Scandinavian prices which are typically much higher than
American ones, but looking around it seems like people think it is normal for
1kg of pasta to cost $2? How can that be? Pasta is super cheap to produce and
has years of shelf life, there is no reason at all why it should be expensive.
It should be the cheapest wheat based product you can buy, certainly much
cheaper than bread.

~~~
madcaptenor
Cheap pasta in US is likely to be around USD 1 per pound, or just over USD 2
per kilogram.

------
schemathings
I chuckled when I saw in the cookbook to microwave for 99 seconds because it's
more efficient than punching in 1:39. I do the same thing :)

~~~
ZeroFries
666 for cooking veggies :)

------
notyourloops
However, sometimes you want to maximize protein per a meal's calories. Some
things may seem 'cheap' but to maximize protein with those items you will blow
out the calories chart. For example, it's better to rely on cottage cheese for
protein instead of flour, despite the monetary cost looking favorable for the
latter -- because the former will have your protein needs met with a smaller
number of total calories, preventing you from gaining fat mass, assuming the
rest of your diet follows similar reasoning.

------
nategri
I wish I could eat in this purely-thermodynamic way but I _know_ I would be
miserable. Carbohydrates just don't induce satiety in me like they seem to for
other people.

~~~
isbjorn16
I feel that, hard. I could eat my body weight in mashed potatoes or rice or
noodles and still end up hungry an hour later.

Fat and (to a lesser extent) protein seem to have the largest effect on
suppressing my appetite, and I have no idea why that is.

------
_nhynes
It'd be nice to see data for vegetables, too. For instance, broccoli is
relatively high in protein (and definitely micronutrients), but is rather cost
ineffective. It'd also be fun to see how absurdly inefficient lettuce is.

Also, soybeans are more efficient than lentils and white beans are more
versatile (e.g.,
[https://github.com/nhynes/pbean](https://github.com/nhynes/pbean))

~~~
GordonS
Google says there is only 2.8g of protein per 100g of brocoli, which doesn't
seem to be particularly noteworthy as vegetables go?

Edamame beans have 11g per 100g - I wonder if that makes economic sense?

------
SketchySeaBeast
I'd like to see a protein / calorie ratio as well - flour has the most protein
/ dollar, but I wouldn't recommend it as a protein source.

------
woodandsteel
This is fine except for the low-cost carbs. These have high glycemic indexes
and glycemic loads. That means they cause insulin spikes in your bloodstream,
which causes type 2 diabetes. And no, that is not just my opinion, it's the
research-proven scientific consensus.

It's better to get your carbs from beans and also calories from healthy oils
like olive and canola.

------
gus_massa
It is not obvious, but you can click on the headers of the table to sort it by
the criteria you want to see.

It's weird that in the recipes at the bottom they never use eggs, that have a
good protein/dollar ratio and are easy to store and cook.

It would be nice to see a dispersion graph of protein/dollar vs
calories/dollar.

~~~
iamnothere
A few of the recipes use eggs but you're right, they could be used more often.
It's actually not bad to stir in an egg while cooking (for example) pasta to
add flavor and protein. With the right ingredients you might not know it's
there.

~~~
tigershark
Or maybe better to cook a proper carbonara pasta with only guanciale (pork
cheek), pecorino cheese and eggs. It ain’t cheap, but I can assure you that
it’s worth every penny when done properly.

~~~
logfromblammo
I imagine "it ain't cheap" does not score well by the g protein/$ metric.

------
dahart
Potatoes should definitely be on this list, any reason they’re not?

~~~
ZeroFries
Potatoes are actually not _that_ cheap per calorie. By weight, yes, but
they're full of water, which dilutes the nutrient density per gram.

------
Creationer
Understanding the science behind cooking is also beneficial:

[https://www.amazon.com/Food-Cooking-Science-Lore-
Kitchen/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Food-Cooking-Science-Lore-
Kitchen/dp/0684800012)

You can also use a microwave to do things like cooking potatoes.

~~~
mxschumacher
thank you!

I've been looking for a resource like this.

I consider cooking a fantastic hobby, it

\- provides an entry it lots of interesting scientific questions, both in food
preparation and digestion/health.

\- is a big money saver over a lifetime.

\- is a great social activity with deep cultural roots.

As a programmer, I also enjoy the approximate and ephemeral nature of the
process and product, similar to software engineering in some ways, completely
different in others.

------
kriswu
I was diagnosed B-cell lymphomas which are types of lymphoma affecting B
cells. Lymphomas are blood cancers" in the lymph nodes. They develop more
frequently in older adults and in immunocompromised individuals. I remember
being on my knees praying, “God, I will fight as hard as I can if you just let
me get through this chemo stuff.” When I went in, Dr. Noy said, “I have
something that’s going to help. I’m going to give you Procrit after you get
your chemo.” Once I got the Procrit, I never felt again like I had after that
first chemo treatment. I got tired and I didn’t feel 100 percent, but I was
really okay. My cancer became very real to me once I lost my hair. But by then
the mystery, the uncertainty, was sort of gone. Not gone, but it just wasn’t
at the forefront. There were things that I started looking forward to doing,
like going out and not just staying in the house. By then, the weather had
started getting really nice, and I decided I needed to get out. I would go for
a long walk or take the subway into the city and look in the store windows.
It’s funny, people I didn’t know would chat with me on the bus, on the train.
We would talk about anything. That made me feel a lot better. It come a day
when i was told by a lady to try and do some research on the internet for help
maybe there will be a cure to my Cancer. I google for treatment for cancer and
I saw some testimony about the herbal specialist called Dr. SANI and the great
work of his Herbal Medicines. With the hope I have in God I believe this to be
the end of my problem for I have prayed for a solution from God. I contact Dr.
SANI with the giving email and also click on his website to see his work. I
finally believed in him and told him about my problem. He prepared some Herbal
medicines and which I was advice to take for three weeks, There are lot to say
about Dr. Sani, I Thank God that this man was used to end my sorrows. All my
pains and sorrows turn to joy and history from the day I came in contact with
Dr. SANI, Who really help with his herbal medicines, I WAS TOLD HE IS A HERBAL
SPECIALIST AND HE CAN BE OF HELP, I gave him a try and it really work out for
me, today here I'm cured of B-cell lymphomas. If you need any help from him,
you can contact him via: (perfectherbalcure@gmail.com ) OR Call/WhatsApp:
+2348118184266

------
clojurestan
I don't understand the protein/dollar column. Flour has protein listed as "3"
and price as 1.68 but I can't see how to get 134 protein/dollar from these
numbers. The calorie/dollar column works the way you would expect.

~~~
dahart
I’m guessing the protein column is per-serving. If so, it’s the only per-
serving data here.

------
superdimwit
This reminds of the classic early linear programming problem / study, the
Stigler diet:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigler_diet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigler_diet)

~~~
AstralStorm
Stigler had a more complete approach to the optimization but still incomplete.
Needs more factors, the problem excluding actual design of meals and
palatability is solvable in seconds using even an old computer. You can even
be nonlinear and assign ranges, weights and even likelihoods that RDA is
insufficient or excessive.

------
cm2012
I am seriously impressed with how efficient flour and white bread are.

~~~
Super_Jambo
Isn't this just tax dollars giving subsidies?

~~~
AstralStorm
Not quite, wheat is cheap and easy to grow with both extensive and intensive
farming options. Especially easy to harvest.

(Compared to, say, rice, corn, beans or even potatoes.)

Funny that white bread is cheaper when brown requires less processing.

------
IronWolve
They normally focus on carbs as the main calorie producer, one of the popular
diet movements is to reduce the artificial sugar ramping up the carbs in
foods. I've gone that way, reducing sugar/carbs in almost all my meals. To get
enough calories and feel full, and not be full of carbs is trick, I find eggs,
mushrooms, cauliflower and broccoli to be the trick to bulk out meals at a
more affordable cost.

------
citilife
I had fun building something similar for a vending machine one day I was stuck
at a Hotel waiting for an interview:

[https://austingwalters.com/cost-per-calorie-from-a-
vending-m...](https://austingwalters.com/cost-per-calorie-from-a-vending-
machine/)

Turns out PopTarts are ridiculously calorie dense per dollar. The breakdown
was a bit different as it was what was available at the time.

------
octosphere
When you shop organic, things start to add up very quickly. And then there's
supplements like Krill oil which (if you buy the proper stuff) can injure your
budget substantially. Sure, the so called 'ramen diet' is good for a while but
you quickly become mal-nourished and your body will start to crave avocados
which cost $1.25 a pop in my area (which injures your budget).

~~~
carlob
But why would you shop organic

~~~
octosphere
It's a well known fact that organic is the healthier option, and also well
known that organic costs more. The idea behind organic is that no pesticides
or are used in the growing process, so your produce is super clean and none of
the harmful effects of pesticides are passed on to the buyer. Organic can also
mean no preservatives are used so organic food doesn't last as long and
perishes quickly (hence why it's so expensive to shop organic - shorter shelf
life).

~~~
carlob
> It's a well known fact that organic is the healthier option

most research on this has been inconclusive, so no.

> The idea behind organic is that no pesticides or [sic] are used in the
> growing process

Also not true: organic farming allows pesticides, just not "synthetic"
pesticides. As a matter of fact in most countries copper pesticides are
allowed in organic farming and they have very well known environmental and
human health effects (it's a heavy metal after all).

> Organic can also mean no preservatives

In most cases it doesn't

------
cm2012
If you use McDonalds coupons, you can probably replicate something close to
this efficiency at McDs, though with a worse nutritional profile.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
> though with a worse nutritional profile

Based upon the requirements they have on display - I don't think so. All they
are measuring is the calories and protein. There's not comment on the other
nutrients, nor on the salts or sugars (you'll notice that flour is the best
protein/dollar ratio).

------
zerohm
I was in Taco Bell the other day and noticed, a dollar menu burrito has 400+
calories. Sure enough it made this list.

~~~
AstralStorm
It's only this cheap because it's a loss leader and has low other nutritional
value.

------
adamwong246
I prefer to think about about how much time I spend on food- buying it,
cooking it, cleaning afterwards, plus my labor spent at work to buy the food
in the first place. By my calculations, I was spending almost 4 hours a day
feeding my self.

Now I have a Soylent subscription and my time spent on food is half an hour a
day.

~~~
objektif
Hows your bathroom visits? I cant even imagine eating soy based for an entire
week.

------
JoeAltmaier
Unsurprising to a college student, peanut butter, Kraft MacnCheese and Ramen
are on the list and pretty high up.

------
evilotto
> Eating only white bread will cost you about $200 dollars a year in grocery
> bills but thousands of dollars of medical bills when you get Scurvy! Eat
> diverse foods for your health and sanity

This footnote should be the headline. Yes, you can eat calorie-dense crap and
survive, but your health will suffer.

------
techbio
TIL one year’s worth of raspberry calories is a starting salary for a coder in
the Midwest.

------
bwanab
I highly recommend Frances Moore Lappe's book Diet for a Small Planet to
anybody who's interested in eating inexpensive, nutritious food.

