
New Generation of Intel Graphics for Linux Requires Proprietary Firmware - jakobdabo
https://01.org/zh/linuxgraphics/intel-linux-graphics-firmwares
======
jakobdabo
Recently there was a discussion [1] in OpenBSD's mailing list and you can also
see [2] Theo de Raadt's point of view.

[1] [https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=143354954711286&w=2](https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=143354954711286&w=2)

[2] [https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=143355112811564&w=2](https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=143355112811564&w=2)

~~~
etiam
I see de Raadt's still delivers his point of view in a hissy fit of insults.

~~~
thegeomaster
Right, all I see is him coming off as an arrogant dickhead. The initial email
from the user was nicely written and expressed the point clearly. De Raadt
just started insulting the guy out of the blue. Yes, he did make a mistake and
a bad point (we all do sometimes, what's the big fucking deal?), but he was
very court.

Is it cool these days for open source OS/kernel development efforts to be run
by these self-indulgent egotists?

~~~
x0x0
It's not at all courteous for idiots to wonder into email lists and
effectively steal a minute or more from every reader of the list. Now multiply
this by the number of idiots in the world.

\-- someone who has had to triage an email list for an open source project

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vbezhenar
Recently there was a good discussion about difference between firmware and
software/drivers:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9671025](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9671025)

Proprietary firmware is not a good thing, but it's not a very bad thing until
we have open hardware, in my opinion.

~~~
jcreedon
This is not to mention that even if it were open source, it is not likely that
the tool chain used to create it is even available, let alone open source.
Firmware blobs are just a fact of life, for now at least.

~~~
thristian
Intel has licensed GPU designs from third-parties before, but typically only
for their low-power (Atom) chips where they just didn't have the technology
in-house.

Here, we're talking about a new micro-architecture for Intel's premium product
line; I would be _very_ surprised to hear Intel licensed _anything_ in the
design from third-parties. If Intel wanted their tool-chain to be available,
they could make it so.

------
snarfy
> GuC is designed to perform graphics workload scheduling on the various
> graphics parallel engines. In this scheduling model, host software submits
> work through one of the 256 graphics doorbells and this invokes the
> scheduling operation on the appropriate graphics engine.

I'm highly suspicious this idea is patent encumbered.

~~~
stephengillie
But...but...but...

They're using _doorbells_ instead of _schedulers_. That's different, right? ;)

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walterbell
Will this affect graphics virtualization on Skylake,
[https://01.org/zh/blogs/skjain/2014/intel%C2%AE-graphics-
vir...](https://01.org/zh/blogs/skjain/2014/intel%C2%AE-graphics-
virtualization-update?langredirect=1)?

~~~
bjwbell
Yes. It most closely corresponds to the GVT-g scenario in the blog post.

------
aosmith
I need a closed source driver on my pci bus as much as I need a bullet in the
head.

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faragon
Why previous generations didn't?

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bjwbell
Could they have open sourced it? Yes. But it was never likely since firmware
is almost always done as a binary blob from intel or otherwise.

They're actually being more open than most vendors, since skylake isn't even
shipped yet.

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dmitrygr
I am willing to tolerate custom firmware in hardware that lives behind an
IOMMU and under an OS that uses it. That will at least make it unlikely that
something scary lives in there and collects my data. Without an IOMMU in use,
the entire RAM is fair game, and, with some creativity, the network card
buffers to sneak the data out.

~~~
Sanddancer
That is, if the device allows you to use an IOMMU:

[https://github.com/sstjohn/thundergate](https://github.com/sstjohn/thundergate)

additionally, how often do you do a firmware dump of your network card to
ensure that what's flashed to it is what's intended to be there?

~~~
walterbell
On every boot, when using TXT to compare current firmware measurements with
known-installed values.

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comrade1
It's really too bad, but linux has failed as a consumer os. As an example,
most of us use laptops and linux power management is horrendous on a laptop
with battery life of 50% or less compared to Windows. And their consumer
desktop UIs are a joke and the programmers have no interest in improving them
in a consistent strategic manner. There is no distinctive driving force with a
vision. It's no wonder graphics chips manufacturers don't see it as worth
their time to provide source code.

I am sure everyone is tired of this argument. But keep hoping - we love you
for it.

But on the server side it's great. The majority of my servers run some form of
Linux. I used to run FreeBSD but have moved Linux.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
If you're looking for consistently improving desktop with a good design
vision, Gnome 3 is a good choice. I've been using it for about 3 years and it
has never been better.

~~~
krick
That's kind of your personal point of view. Highly subjective matter. I, for
instance, like xfce — it's not perfect, but far better than anything else I
tried. Some people, I know, like KDE. I tried to get used to it for a half a
year to "get a feel of it", but never understood how it's even usable.

I mean, you better not pass opinions like that one as "a clever lifehack".

~~~
rhinoceraptor
I didn't say it was the best, I said it was one with a clear design vision
(which I happen to like), in a way that XFCE or Mate don't.

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lasermike026
Yeah, this isn't going to work.

