
SteelSeries include adware in driver automatically installed by Windows Update - supernes
https://www.reddit.com/r/steelseries/comments/ishp8t/unwanted_steelseries_ads_installed_to_my_computer/
======
Havoc
Steelseries, Razer and Nvidia drivers are all a pain in the ass. How hard is
it to make a driver that works and has a config page?

Instead they make you jump through a million extra hoops to get it to work

It’s only a matter of time until we get a DRM mouse that only works when
online

~~~
kawsper
Nvidia can't even figure out how to build an application that remembers my
login details, every time I open it up I have to login again.

~~~
slantyyz
The bigger question though is why do you need to login in the first place?

For the longest time the GeForce Experience application didn't need a login. A
lot of users (like me) have that application just to do the automatic driver
updates. Why do I need to login to do that?

~~~
nightski
There are nefarious reasons. But drivers like Razer/Nvidia also sync your
individual game/device settings to the cloud so that if you have multiple
computers or reinstall the OS you don't have to set everything up again. It
should definitely be optional though.

~~~
bavell
Solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Just a plausible cover for the
actual nefarious reasons.

~~~
nightski
I know I am weird, but I have a Razer Naga with several game profiles and find
it really nice when it synchronizes the settings. I use the same mouse on my
laptop and can pick up right where I left off.

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huhtenberg
Logitech does this too.

Just plug in a mouse - Windows fetches the driver package and, voila, you are
a proud owner of LogiLDA.dll that will pester you with random marketing
bullshit until forcibly removed from the system.

~~~
AshamedCaptain
MS explicitly allows this; to spam you regarding a more featured driver when
the one from WU is installed.

~~~
lifty
MS doesn't have any self respect and any respect for its users. Luckily there
is Apple which side with the user in these kind of matters.

~~~
foepys
Ah, yeah Apple and mice. The operating system where the shoulder buttons of my
old but perfectly fine Logitech MX518 don't work and I have to jump through
hoops to get them to simply make them take me back in a browser. Truly a
masterpiece of engineering. /s

Apple's drivers for basic input devices are extremely bad. I couldn't believe
it when I was first using a Mac. You need vendor drivers for everything.

~~~
mrkstu
Luckily another part of the traditional Apple ecosystem are well engineered
community generated extensions to cover for Apple's lack of advanced options
for some functionality:

[https://sensible-side-buttons.archagon.net/](https://sensible-side-
buttons.archagon.net/)

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beervirus
[https://old.reddit.com/r/steelseries/comments/ishp8t/unwante...](https://old.reddit.com/r/steelseries/comments/ishp8t/unwanted_steelseries_ads_installed_to_my_computer/)

Fixed link to avoid Reddit’s horrible new interface.

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AnIdiotOnTheNet
Not sure where the setting is exposed, but O&O ShutUp10 has a toggle for
"Disable automatic downloading of manufacturer's apps and icons for devices"
that I suspect would prevent this. I haven't dug into it, but from my own
usage I believe this setting ensures that only the driver dlls and not any
extraneous software is installed by Windows Update.

~~~
gibspaulding
I'm not sure where I originally saw the recommendation for OOSU10, but it was
someone on HN, so whoever you were, thank you! After Firefox, it's the first
thing I install on a fresh Windows install, and just applying their
recommended actions makes Windows a much more tolerable experience!

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
Sadly I have to agree. Not using something like OOSU10 is like not running an
ad blocker on the web. Not coincidentally I blame a lot of the ways Windows
has been ruined lately on the adoption of web development trends.

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r1ch
I do wonder how Microsoft verifies 3rd party drivers before pushing them
through Windows Update. I've seen some very low quality drivers (and
associated bloat of services and background exes) be pushed through, to the
point where I disabled driver updates and went back to doing it manually. A
supply chain attack here could be devastating.

~~~
matheusmoreira
Low quality drivers? At least two drivers released by games companies had
privilege escalation _as a feature_ :

[https://securelist.com/elevation-of-privileges-in-namco-
driv...](https://securelist.com/elevation-of-privileges-in-namco-
driver/83707/)

[https://twitter.com/thewack0lian/status/779397840762245124](https://twitter.com/thewack0lian/status/779397840762245124)

[https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/545cjy/sfvs_new_pc_u...](https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/545cjy/sfvs_new_pc_update_is_accessing_kernel_level_in/)

[https://github.com/tandasat/ExploitCapcom](https://github.com/tandasat/ExploitCapcom)

I don't think I trust proprietary drivers anymore. Especially if they come
from the gaming industry.

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serguzest
I am experiencing same thing with asus ROG mechanical keyboard. Windows
automatically installed crapware along with couple services. Its uninstaller
gives error, parts that uninstalled get re-installed again. I hate it.

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ziml77
What is the adware here? The SteelSeries control center most certainly has
never displayed an ad to me.

~~~
boomlinde
See the screenshot in the linked post. The software is advertising Steelseries
Engine.

~~~
srtjstjsj
What is Engine? It looks like a driver for the hardware installed.

~~~
syntheticcdo
SteelSeries Engine is the fat-drivers for the mouse. This is not an ad to buy
new mice, it is an indication that the user paid a lot of money for a mouse
and is unable to utilize it's features without the full drivers.

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matheusmoreira
This is USB HID hardware, right? People can use wireshark to capture USB
packets and create an equivalent driver for Linux. Assuming there aren't any
already.

The only reason to use this proprietary malware is to reverse engineer it.

~~~
supernes
Their hardware, in the case of gaming mice/keyboards at least, runs absolutely
fine with generic drivers. The issue here is them pushing an extra "control
center" type app through ads that pop up on the desktop without any consent or
interaction from the user.

~~~
vbezhenar
I guess that proprietary drivers are required to configure additional buttons,
DPI, etc. Though Logitech mices save configuration inside, so I was able to
configure the mice, then reinstall Windows and use generic driver.

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srtjstjsj
Is the issue here that the driver installation program looks so pretty that
people can't understand it's a driver installation program, and so they assume
it's trying to scam them?

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noxer
Laughable nonsense and misleading title. The updated driver suggests
additional software to use all features of the hardware he plunged in. This
usually is because Microsoft does not want to auto install the full version of
third party "drivers" so you only get a minimal version of the driver without
extensive settings and all that. No one wants windows to download a 300MB
Electron app if you plug in a mouse you may only temporary use. But its fair
to notify the user about the existence of said app.

~~~
gameswithgo
negative, getting a pop up from an updated driver is bot fair. it is
infuriating. i use my computer to do work, pop ups interrupt that. it becomes
a growing practical problem as more people believe it is acceptable to this as
it happens more often.

~~~
derefr
> I use my computer to do work

Yes, well, not everybody does; and plugging in a gaming mouse is a pretty good
signal that you’re one of the people that don’t. (Or that you’re at least a
person with multiple computers who doesn’t use _that_ one for work.)

~~~
SAI_Peregrinus
I've used a Roccat Tyon mouse for work. Gaming mouse, but the macro system &
chord button makes automating common actions easy. The extra axis is also
great for working in 3D modeling (CAD) programs, though not as good as having
a true 3D mouse (but also a lot cheaper).

~~~
derefr
Not saying it’s a _guarantee_ — just a good signal. If that signal increases
the cumulative probability that you’re someone who’d maybe want the full
control panel, to be greater than the probability that you wouldn’t, then it’d
make sense to show the notification.

Then again, recalling the marketing of Windows 7 way back when, centralizing
notifications like this was _supposed_ to be what the Windows Action Center
was for. But they just never added support for arbitrary third-party “actions”
to it. Kind of perplexing.

------
coldcode
Mac is not immune to this type of crap, I tried Corel Painter demo version and
the updater it installed put up random windows with ads after a while until I
figured it out and removed it.

~~~
jasonlotito
Apple advertises for stuff as well. I never installed adware, but Apple
installs it, and I don't know how to shut if off.

Just so people are aware, here is just one example:
[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7428677](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7428677)

A fullscreen add after you go into Music, and apparently no way to turn it off
permanently. I've had this happen to me this year.

I had this happen after I went to play music, and this popped up for me
_AFTER_ selecting a song I owned to play.

So, if we are going to go after Steelseries for advertising for free software
specifically used for the hardware the person owns, let's make sure we call it
out wherever it's happening.

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1_player
God the Reddit comments on that post are absolute rubbish.

The most upvoted comments are along the lines of "you're using Windows 10, who
cares if something else spies on you LUL" which is the dumbest argument I've
ever heard, which makes me suspect they might be corporate puppets.

Or perhaps we've just been conditioned to ignore any privacy concerns as
bullshit and just laugh and shrug whenever yet another company wants to make
money off our data.

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tasubotadas
I have SteelSeries headphones and if you don't have SteelSeries engine
installed, you are losing quite a bit of functionality.

I think it's a grey zone as for most of the cases people are going to be happy
to get that software.

~~~
supernes
It does improve the experience of using their hardware, even though mice for
example work absolutely fine without it. I had it running for a while, but
decided not to use it as it added nothing in my case.

The issue is they're pushing unwanted software that displays ads on the
desktop through a (possibly bogus) driver update that you can't really refuse
without halting Windows Update altogether.

~~~
dogma1138
There is little to no point of buying their hardware without it, you can’t
change settings, create profiles, macros or rebind keys.

~~~
blibble
on my apex pro I can do all of the above except rebind keys just by using the
keyboard

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lemmonii
It's really funny to see the redditors defend this.

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gregjw
Booooo

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jasonlotito
Okay, so then technically, Apple does this as well.

Apple installs adware of the same type that SteelSeries does.

