
What happens when you use a standing desk for two years - arshadgc
http://arshadchowdhury.com/1485-what-happens-when-you-stand-for-2-years/
======
johnyzee
I say this to anyone within earshot whenever this topic comes up: Get a
motorized adjustable desk that you can stand or sit at. Unless you are a freak
of nature, sometimes you will want or need to sit down. These desks are the
norm in every office here in Denmark and I am always baffled that it is some
kind of esoteric thing worthy of debate in America.

Having gotten used to them at the office, I got one for my home because I
could no longer bear having to sit all the time. It cost around $500, a
beautiful desk with customized bezel and finish. There are many suppliers, I
used this one: [http://www.conset.dk](http://www.conset.dk)

(My desk: [http://imgur.com/A1eS2](http://imgur.com/A1eS2))

~~~
tbrownaw
What's wrong with a fixed standing desk with a drafting stool?

~~~
johnyzee
I like my Aeron for when I do have to sit.

It surprises me that guys will easily drop a thousand dollars every six to
eight months on the latest phone, yet cheap out on their workspace. In fact I
would be hard pressed to think of anything more worthy of my money than my
desk and chair that I spend most of my day using.

Another thing is that most standing desks, including the one in the OP, seem
to have a very small work area, which would be unacceptable to me (I like to
draw stuff on paper).

~~~
mixmastamyk
I've got a very nice "bar stool."

------
aliston
Be careful with an abrupt switch to a standing desk. Essentially, you need to
build up core and leg strength over time to prevent strain.

I've been using a standing desk for a little over a year now and have many of
the same observations as the OP. I also like to alternate between sitting and
standing throughout the day to mix it up. I'm never going back. But, when you
first switch, you are probably putting a lot of stress on muscles that have
atrophied from sitting so much. If you switch patterns too abruptly, you're
likely to end up with a muscle strain or back problems, or will start leaning
on your desk, which can cause problems with wrist injuries/carpel tunnel.

[http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/13/the-dangers-of-
sitting...](http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/13/the-dangers-of-sitting-at-
work%E2%80%94and-standing/)

~~~
vidarh
This is a guide that's been very popular over at r/fitness to correct
"computer guy" posture:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_th...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_the_dreaded_anterior_pelvic_tilt_or/)

I'm at an advanced level strength wise for overhead press, squats and bench
press, and need a lot of core strength to handle my lifts, yet standing for a
long time is still _brutal_ because of my posture and lacking strength in
various smaller muscles, as well as lack of flexibility in certain muscles.

It's getting better quickly (I don't use a standing desk, but I do specific
work to improve my posture), but even for people who think they've got a steel
core after exercise might get nasty surprises if they try to stand all day.

------
mistercow
It's worth noting, for those who aren't aware, that current evidence (while
scant) does not support the hypothesis that using a standing desk is healthier
than using an ordinary sit-down desk. In fact, the evidence for ordinary desks
being harmful is not nearly as strong as standing desk proponents would have
you believe.

It certainly can't be taken as a given, though, that if long sedentary periods
are harmful, long periods of standing still are significantly better.

~~~
icpmacdo
While there may not be evidence for it the amount of positve anecdotal stories
seem to consistently say its better than sitting at a desk all day long.

~~~
mistercow
This is unfortunately a perfect situation where anecdotes are not very
valuable, as can be seen by the fact that the same pattern can be observed
with obvious nonsense like hologram patches and magnetic bracelets. We see a
typically less gullible set of subjects for these anecdotes, but that can
unfortunately be explained entirely by the more plausible sounding hypothesis.

I'll dispense with the full Bayesian treatment here, but what we have here is
a case of the base rate fallacy (although not the form that is usually
discussed): failing to account for the prior probability of the evidence. That
is, we have some evidence, which is that the anecdotes we see are largely in
favor of standing desks being helpful, and we need to account for how likely
that evidence is _regardless_ of whether standing desks _are_ helpful.

Unfortunately, as our friends with the magnetic bracelets demonstrate, that
probability turns out to be very high. If something works, we see
overwhelmingly positive anecdotes. If it doesn't work, we see overwhelmingly
positive anecdotes.

Why might this be? Well, for one thing, there is sensitivity to placebo
effects, because have purely qualitative phenomena that are being reported
only subjectively.

But even stronger is a selection bias that has to do with people's behavior in
reporting and reading. Someone is unlikely to write about their experiences
publicly who tries a standing desk for a while, finds no significant benefit,
and goes back to a sitting desk. She won't find it interesting to talk about,
and she may also be self-conscious that she didn't do it right, and would be
inviting criticism. After all "I tried X and it didn't work" is, on some
level, an admission of personal failure, and people aren't particularly prone
to those. And if she does write it up, her write-up isn't likely to get all
that much attention because "X didn't work for me" isn't a particularly
interesting story.

But one who finds the standing desk to be a miracle cure for all of her
problems is relatively likely to write about it, and people will take notice,
because "making a simple lifestyle change improved my quality of life" is an
attention getter.

~~~
IsaacL
You're right, but that's still not an argument against trying a standing desk.
If some people find them useful, and some don't, and assuming the cost of
trying it is low, the rational thing to do is not to wait around until enough
meta-studies are written for you to make a completely informed decision, but
simply to try it out for yourself and see how you like it.

~~~
mistercow
Sure, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise, but correctly evaluating the
situation is still important. The cost/benefit does require evaluating the
benefits, and the benefits actually play into the costs as well. If being
sedentary is harmful and standing all day _isn 't_ a good solution, then it
would be harmful to adopt a standing desk _instead_ of exercising.

For my part, my week with a standing desk just led to upper back pain (which
is not unusual for me, but I am generally able to avoid).

------
b0rsuk
A thought-provoking comment from the article:

"""In time, you will suffer from various types of pain and injuries at blood
vessels. Speak with a middle-aged barber with 30 years of "standing"
experience, and ask him about his legs."""

I'm actually going to ask a few barbers. I'll tell you how it went once this
kind of article pops up again (and it will).

~~~
robbiep
So standing is a rick factor for the development of varicose veins. However.
If you are standing at a desk you are most likely going to be making micro
changes to your stance throughout which will act as a muscular pump, returning
blood to your heart and reducing the venous pressure in your legs.

Surgeons for example are not at significantly higher risk than the average
person for development of varicose veins because they are generally making
small movements fairly consistently. A guard in a pillbox outside Windsor
castle, on the other hand, would be at a higher risk because he is not
supposed to be making the micromovements that will return the blood and reduce
venous pressure, potentially causing valvular incompetence and dilated
superficial leg veins specially if predisposed genetically.

Source: med student, asked lecturers about this specifically and have talked
to numerous surgeons.

And as someone in the article mentioned, using compression stockings would
obviate any concerns that a person may have

~~~
mason240
That's why I have a bar 15 inches high that runs beneath my desk. I can put a
foot up on in it and change position every 5-10 minutes.

------
leothekim
I've had a herniated disk (L4-L5) for several years, and tried a lot of
different things - pilates, physical therapy, epidural steroid injections,
special chairs, etc. Using a standing desk has been a godsend for me. I no
longer fear inducing any back spasms after prolonged sitting.

That said, my feet hurt at the end of the day, and I still need to sit from
time to time to take the weight off my feet. Am looking into padded shoes, but
it's interesting to see that Arshad didn't need any special padding after a
couple years.

~~~
mistercow
Padded shoes may actually be counterproductive.

The problem with padding is that humans actually already have an extremely
sophisticated active shock and balance system in our ankles and knees, and
when you add a passive system like padding on the feet, you force that system
to work harder and adjust in unnatural ways. Essentially, you're setting
yourself up to always be walking on unsteady ground.

So you might want to first try going barefoot for a while, and see if that
helps. If you aren't accustomed to standing barefoot for long periods, it will
take some time for your body to adjust, but I suspect that you will adjust
faster to that than to padding.

~~~
leothekim
Thanks for the suggestion! I've been wearing orthotics for a while actually,
and I'm going to talk to my podiatrist to see if I still need them.

Also, I'm curious if compression stockings mitigate soreness when standing for
prolonged periods. I talked to a surgeon who says they've helped him his feet
feel better while operating hours at a time.

~~~
eropple
I actually wear compression calf sleeves (same as I do for basketball)
sometimes when working at my standing desk, and I do notice a positive
difference.

I do often wear a pair of padded sandals instead of just standing on the
carpet, though. I have an anti-fatigue mat too, but the sandals work better.

------
ekianjo
I can't share 2 years worth of experience with a standing desk, but at least 3
weeks after I built mine at home. I only use it in the evenings since at work
I don't really have a choice in the first place. I was suffering from back
pain, and after 3 weeks using my standing desk for a few hours every day at
home, most of the back pain is gone. On top of that, I used to fall asleep
while sitting in front of my computer if I stayed up too long, but now this
never happens - when standing I do feel more motivation and energy to do
things, and I can see I have done more things on my TO-DO list in the past 3
weeks than I expected.

The only drawback is that when I feel too tired in the first place, I have no
desire and energy to even stand up in the first place. But maybe that's not a
bad sign. It shows I should be resting instead of using my computer.

------
tvanantwerp
If you try this, be sure you don't half-ass it. I tried a standing desk, but
couldn't raise the desk I had high enough. I tried putting my mouse and
keyboard on top of other objects to give extra height, but eventually gave up
because it was too difficult. I stayed standing, though, and the angle I bent
my wrist at for so long has seriously messed up my right wrist. Even after
returning to my usual sitting desk for months, the pain hasn't gone away (it's
actually gotten worse) and I'm looking for a good rheumatologist.

Do not half-ass a standing desk.

------
pyrocat
I'm surprised no one has recommended MultiTable yet. They sell a sturdy,
adjustable, standing desk for under $500. The only problem (feature?) is that
it doesn't come with a table top. I solved for that by buying one from IKEA
for ~$50 and screwing it in. The whole setup process took about an hour and
now I've got a standing desk at home! It only takes a few seconds of using the
hand-crank to lower or raise it to whatever height I want, and the crank isn't
even obtrusive. I recommend the desk to anyone who's looking for an adjustable
standing desk but doesn't want to pay an arm and a leg for the motorized
feature/power drain.

edit: amazon link
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NJUQVG](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NJUQVG)

------
jurassic
I've been looking into this but haven't taken the leap yet because I decided I
wanted an external monitor and keyboard. A standing setup with a laptop seems
less than optimal from an ergonomic point of view. Isn't it better to decouple
the keyboard and monitor so that you can place the monitor and keyboard each
at the optimal height? I've done some informal testing with stacked books and
couldn't find a height that was comfortable for both viewing and typing on my
Macbook. Comfortable typing height makes me hunch over to look at the screen.

~~~
mrweasel
I'm always a bit baffled when people build something to prop up their laptop.
I guess mostly because I'm an a country where you're not allow (legally) to
use a laptop as a permanent workstation, unless you have an external monitor,
keyboard and mouse.

To have a comfortable standing position, you really need to be able to move
your monitor separately from the keyboard. Most monitors doesn't really allow
you to adjust their height, even iMacs just allow you to tilt the screen,
which isn't what you want. If you want to switch position during the day, you
either need a really good desk where you can rise the monitor separately or a
monitor where the "neck" extends.

~~~
josephpmay
Wait, what? Your government actually regulates what can and cannot be used as
a permanent workstation? What country do you live in? How does that even work?

~~~
tbrownaw
Here in the US we have OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration, who make rules designed to prevent employers from setting up
working conditions that promote injuries/illnesses. I don't know if they have
rules specifically about laptops, but that would definitely be the kind of
rule they make.

~~~
joonix
OSHA is basically a big joke. My father owns a _factory_ and has had an OSHA
inspection only once in almost 30 years. Doubt they even get around to
visiting offices.

~~~
B-Con
But couldn't a worker file a lawsuit? I think the big enforcer of policy is
employee lawsuits, not government inspections.

------
frank_boyd
You're doing it wrong.

Working on a laptop only all day long is insane. You need to separate screen
an keyboard, otherwise one of them will be at the wrong height! If you use a
laptop, it means you need to add an external keyboard.

Everything else makes absolutely no ergonomic sense!

Example:
[http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/l...](http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/language/en-
US/Default.aspx) You can sit and then stand up by just pulling the table up
easily with one hand.

~~~
vacri
I always find this weird, that when people start talking about office
ergonomics, they so frequently ignore the laptop elephant in the room. Laptops
are convenient, but they are not ergonomic.

In my own office, I have to badger people to accept a monitor and separate
keyboard. Usually they resist because "laptops are cool!", but after they
actually try a bigger, separate screen and moveable keyboard, they would never
be without them.

------
cromwellian
I'm severely flat footed (wet footprint has no arch) and standing more than a
few minutes starts to hurt my feet. Anyone else flat footed who tried a
standing desk?

~~~
shawnc
I am flat footed. I bought a standing mat (one that is made for a
kitchen/workshop) and then got some great shoes (ones intended for nurses and
doctors). I did this about 1 week into switching to a standing desk cold
turkey. I switched almost 2 years ago now (22 months ago), and sometimes I may
go a day sitting at home with my laptop... and I really am happy when I get
back to my standing desk at my office the next day.

~~~
lostlogin
Proper shoes. Yes! I used to wear lead gowns in operating theaters, adding
20kgs to my existing 100kgs (I'm a smidge and 2m). My feet were absolute agony
after each shift. Changing to good shoes and a theatre upgrade that made
installed squishy Lino helped a lot (with a big downside - pushing 500kg x-ray
gear was not that much easier than pushing it through sand would have been. I
effectively plowed the floor every time I more it). Get good shoes!

~~~
protomyth
Any favorite brands?

~~~
uxp
My wife is a nurse and swears by Dansko shoes and clogs. In fact, go spend a
couple minutes at your nearest hospital during shift change and count how many
people are wearing them, you'll probably be surprised. They don't have the
widest selection however...

[http://www.dansko.com/At%20Work/](http://www.dansko.com/At%20Work/)

------
euroclydon
I had a standing desk once, but after a few months, I found I had to sit to
get any serious thinking done. Anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

~~~
ulisesrmzroche
I had the same experience, though I've been trying them on-and-off for years
now. Walter Murch (demi-god of film editing) has an interesting take on it.

"Unlike most film editors today, Murch works standing up, comparing the
process of film editing to "conducting, brain surgery and short-order
cooking", since all conductors, cooks and surgeons stand when they work. In
contrast, when writing, he does so lying down. His reason for this is that
where editing film is an editorial process, the creation process of writing is
opposite that, and so he lies down rather than sit or stand up, to separate
his editing mind from his creating mind."

Maybe we should refactor standing up and write code sitting down?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Murch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Murch)

~~~
abecedarius
He said lying down, now sitting. I usually code lying down, myself. But I
certainly don't stand to refactor; it'd be easy to try, though it seems a
little out there.

~~~
ulisesrmzroche
True, thanks for catching that. I prefer to write code lying on the couch,
too, though I never noticed this before. Does anyone else code lying down?

~~~
mkopinsky
How does the ergonomics of this work? The intellectual part of writing code
may be improved, but physically typing the code while on the couch can't be a
good thing.

(Typed while laying in bed, in a way that would certainly screw up my wrists
if I did this long term.)

~~~
ulisesrmzroche
I use Vim, both for writing code and as a chrome plugin, so I'm usually just
hitting a few keys in normal mode, or whatever autocomplete tells me, with the
occasional swipe at the trackpad. I've never had any wrist pain on the couch.
My macbook air is pretty ancient but it's still super light so I can just prop
it wherever.

------
rossjudson
I don't know whether your standing desk experience is generally applicable,
but I _do_ know good marketing when I see it. Well-played, sir! I expect Power
20 will sell a few more units.

------
VladRussian2
>I raised my computer 5 inches higher than when I first started because I was
bending my head too far forward. My keyboard is now at chest level and my eyes
are looking slightly downward at about 105º.

been to chiropractor recently and he shown me X-ray of my neck. This bending
forward is actually an unnatural straightening of the neck where it normally
would be curved. Cause for a host of issues now and in future.

~~~
tghw
I would be weary of putting too much credence into that particular diagnosis.
Very few people have the "recommended" neck curve. For unscrupulous
chiropractors, it's something they can easily point at as something that needs
fixing and they'll present you with a "treatment plan" that requires regular
visits over the next X months.

There's almost nothing in the way of unbiased research which has shown the
neck angle to be the problem they say it is.

~~~
robbiep
Agreed. The key word that should be red flagging this post is 'chiropractor'

~~~
VladRussian2
you guys have typical case of Dunning-Kruger.

Do you have immediate friends or family treated by chiropractor (i have), have
you seen chiropractor yourself (i have). Can you point any specific
respectable publication which dismiss chiropractors as a whole or shows
significant presence of "unscrupoluousness"? Until that your groundless
dismissal of the whole class of professional people and their practice is just
it, groundless childish dismissal.

~~~
robbiep
And I diagnose you with a severe case of confirmation bias.

Start here:
[http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3801081.htm](http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3801081.htm)

Shift over here for some overview: [http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/04/if-
this-is-evidence-base...](http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/04/if-this-is-
evidence-based-medicine-i-want-my-old-job-back/)

Then jump into the hard science at SBM:
[http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-
ove...](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-overview-
part-i/)

[http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-
ove...](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-overview-
part-ii/)

It's not acusing someone from a position of superiority if a profession has
continually shown itself incapable of eliminating the pseudoscience in its
practice, which is most of it. A claim could be made that Chiropractory is
largely fraud based on their incredibly weak evidence base and the fact they
are charging money for treatment that is no better than placebo.

Have a nice day!

~~~
VladRussian2
enjoy:

[http://umm.edu/programs/spine/health/guides/cervical-
kyphosi...](http://umm.edu/programs/spine/health/guides/cervical-kyphosis)

that was, almost word for word, among the things that was explained to me by
the chiropractor [when he shown me the disk deformation on my X-ray -
abnormally straight neck and thus abnormally compressing the front side of the
disks] :

"As the discs collapse and grow thinner, the head tilts forward and the neck
begins to curve forward. This begins a process that may continue to progress
for years. The weight of the head causes an imbalance of forces pushing the
neck increasingly forward. This slowly leads to an increasing curve and may
end with a kyphosis. "

~~~
tghw
And I notice, nowhere in there does it say anything about chiropractic
manipulation as treatment. I would still caution against putting too much into
it until you get a second opinion from a neurologist.

~~~
VladRussian2
>And I notice, nowhere in there does it say anything about chiropractic
manipulation as treatment.

we were arguing diagnosis, hence the link that quick search brought.

I'm really surprised by the prejudice [especially baseless prejudice which is
just plain offensive] against chiropractors that i met in this thread. I
understand that you(+your family) had mixed experience and that provides basis
for your opinion. My experience is completely different.

Even without going into personal experiences and opinions which as we see may
vary (like in the case of regular medicine as well), the objectively most
important fact here is that insurance covers chiropractors - this is ultimate
and most important endorsement in the US :) - speaking from my personal
experience of fighting an insurance several years ago when they refused to pay
for a procedure an MD performed on me.

Wrt. my experience with chiropractors. My father was successfully treated for
back pain by a chiropractor 30 years ago back in Soviet Union, and my wife got
successfully treated for a joint issue here recently, and in my case
everything has so far been consistent with my knowledge/understanding as well
as with medical info i could find.

So, i don't see any reasons to worry or be suspicious with chiropractors
beyond what would be typical and prudent in any other encounter with any other
medical professional.

~~~
tghw
Do a more thorough search. I've done a bit more and have found no one but
chiropractors suggesting chiropractics to fix this problem. Also note, while
your link mentions degeneration, it is much less common of a cause than a
congenital defect or the result of a medical treatment.

The prejudice is based on their ignorance of science. In fact, traditionally,
chiropractics totally eschews science in exchange for philosophy. This leads
to chiropractors using techniques that have been shown to be harmful, such as
doing spinal manipulation to fix nerve impingement, which is contraindicated
by numerous studies. Additionally, there are still many chiropractors that are
anti-immunization, another scientifically baseless position, but one that is
dangerous for both the individual and society.

Insurance coverage is not an endorsement whatsoever. It is the effect of heavy
lobbying on the part of chiropractors. Remember, insurance is not incentivized
to do what is best for the patient.

~~~
VladRussian2
man, i'm sorry, but your stretch your personal unfortunate experience too far.
Such broad statements require good links. I already posted this in the other
place :
[http://nccam.nih.gov/health/chiropractic/introduction.htm](http://nccam.nih.gov/health/chiropractic/introduction.htm)

~~~
tghw
What is the point of this link? NIH is policy, not science. You have failed to
provide a single piece of scientific research that chiropractors can properly
diagnose and treat kyphosis.

On the other hand, problems with the practice are widely documented:
[http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/may/14/dangers-...](http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/may/14/dangers-
chiropractic-treatment-under-reported)

~~~
VladRussian2
>What is the point of this link? NIH is policy, not science.

that is outright fantasy.

[http://nih.gov/about/](http://nih.gov/about/)

"NIH is made up of 27 Institutes and Centers, each with a specific research
agenda, often focusing on particular diseases or body systems."

My experience with a specific NIH's center - NCBI - and their work clearly
correlates with it, they [ ie. their own researchers] are doing fundamental
science.

The rest of your statements goes the same way.

------
reustle
From my experience, keep your elbows at a 90 degree angle and make sure you're
looking straight ahead, or very slightly down.

Also, don't listen to people who say buy some expensive adjustable desk. I
wrote about building my treadmill desk and other standing desks here:
[http://reustle.io/blog/cant-stand-sitting](http://reustle.io/blog/cant-stand-
sitting)

~~~
lukifer
I'm about to put together a cheap treadmill desk. Any tips, or resources you
can recommend? I'm a bit of noob at hardware hacking.

~~~
wpietri
My big regret with my treadmill desk was the noise level. Definitely test
anything before purchase to see if you can comfortably talk over it and think
without distraction.

~~~
reustle
I think most decent quality treadmills tend to be noisy. I use noise canceling
headphones to listen to music (or nothing) when I'm on the desk.

------
fzzzy
I've been standing since 2007 and I love it. An external monitor and keyboard
setup is important for me, since the laptop keyboard and monitor are too close
together to be able to both type comfortably and see the screen with my neck
in a good position, but that might just be because I am very tall and have a
long torso.

I have arrived at a very interesting angle for my keyboard which I haven't
seen elsewhere. I use the Kinesis Advantage and built a little wedge out of
wood to stand it on so that the keyboard is pitched in the opposite direction
than most. It is arranged to be much higher at the front than the back, almost
vertical, so I can type without bending my wrists or elbows at all. Can't see
the key caps in this arrangement but I can touch type with my eyes closed.

I also have a huge external touchscreen monitor designed for windows 8 that I
managed to get working on the mac. It's much nicer to use than a mouse or a
trackpad although making extremely precise mouse movements is hard and I keep
a regular mouse around to use when needed.

~~~
mistercow
I would be very careful with that keyboard set up. It sounds very likely to
cause RSI problems.

~~~
fzzzy
Can you explain?

~~~
mistercow
I was searching for evidence, and it appears I may be wrong. Cornell
([http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html](http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html))
is one example that seems to think your set up is better than normal.

~~~
fzzzy
Cool, thanks. That is a useful page.

The reason I arrived at the setup I have is because I got RSI and first
switched to a standing desk where my elbows were bent, which caused even more
pain. I was forced to try different positions until I arrived at the one that
I use now, in which I tried to keep my joints in as neutral a position as
possible.

------
pearjuice
"Hang on, I will see if we have a model in stock" and the sales representative
walks over to a near standing desk in the store with a computer connected to
the inventory system only to return 5 minutes later with the information which
answers my question.

Funny how I have this feeling that when using a standing desk one will have
the continous urge to walk away. I just fail to imagine how someone will stand
the entire day behind a desk; I have actually never heard of standing desks
before being used for full time operations. What if you want to take a minute
of? As in just lounging back in a traditional chair and look at the screen for
a while? You walk a circle? For the life of me! What do you do if you have a
break? Eat whilst standing?

------
mratzloff
I have a GeekDesk Pro and I would highly recommend it. GeekDesk's customer
service is fantastic. Incidentally, I customized mine with a custom alder wood
desktop, stained a kind of cedar color.

I change up standing and sitting a few times a day. You burn about 100
calories an hour just from standing, so standing for about 6 hours a day you
burn an extra 600 calories. Makes a difference. Plus, much better for your
posture and lower back.

However, you shouldn't be looking down at your monitor. It should be at eye
level. A monitor arm can help with that.

------
tankbot
I find it best to move between sitting/standing. I sit in the morning and
stand in the afternoon. Standing in the afternoon gets/keeps circulation going
and prevents that drowsy feeling that can sap productivity after work.

Something else that's great to add: a bicycle. I sold my car and commute by
bike to/from work about 7 miles each way. The added leg strength is amazing,
not to mention it tightens your core, which helps with back pain, and there
are cardio benefits, too.

It's also a lot of fun. I look for excuses to ride my bike.

------
chandraonline
I did the standing desk for a few months and then added a treadmill and that
went for another few months and then jerry-rigged by own seating on top. When
I want to use the treadmill , I just move my saddle stool forward under the
desk and when I am tired or need to focus switch to my saddle seating. It cost
me about 200$ all told for the desk, treadmill and the saddle bar stool
(craigslist + amazon). Image:
[http://imgur.com/xq3KkFa](http://imgur.com/xq3KkFa)

------
forgottenpaswrd
Standing desk user for like 5 years or so, I also use a stool.

My computers are at standing eye level, I use a high stool for myself, and a
lower stool for my legs.

Very important: I use plain sole slippers so my posture and muscles adapt to
naked feet. Your muscles will adapt to whatever you use for hundreds of hours.
If you always use shoes with heels you won't be able to use other things, and
your back muscles will develop a strange posture for balancing your body,
which will make your knees suffer. It is also much better for transpiration,
no fungus, no odor.

At first I was the only one to use slippers at work, now everybody at my place
does.

Over half of my time I stay on my stool, with my legs on the other stool, over
half I stand up.

I love it, why? My back is always straight in both cases. You became stronger,
your body is activated when standing up, as there is a reflex to relax when
sitting down, when you stand up your heart needs more pressure, it is the
natural thing to do for humans, we are designed for that.

BEWARE: If you try it, and you have trained your body to sit down for years it
will take you at least 3 to 4 months for your new musculature to develop, so
you need to plan a transition strategy. Buy a stool and go step by step.

~~~
forgottenpaswrd
PS: Also learn good posture from a good yoga or martial arts instructor.

Read books like this: [http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-
Shoulde...](http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-
Shoulder/dp/0979303605)

------
joshuak
This [1] is my desk, and I love it (I actually have 2 in a half circle, one PC
one Mac). I've added a second deck, and the Mac side as 2 cinema displays on
arms so they can be raised to eye level when standing.

Now this is a little expensive setup, but I LOVE it, and feel it was
absolutely worth the investment. I've been using it for a few years now. It is
not motorized, since you only lift the keyboard mouse section, and it is
couter blanaced by spring to make that easy. This actually makes it very fast
and easy to switch and cheaper at the same time. I strongly prefer that over
motorized or full surface movable desks.

Regardless of how you do it, almost everyone who can stand should have a
standing/sitting desk that adjusts easily. It makes a big difference in your
health and mood even if you rarely switch modes. Often when you need to switch
you _really_ need to switch.

[0] [http://www.anthro.com/products/fit-
console](http://www.anthro.com/products/fit-console)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Off-by-one error on your URI list there ;0)>

~~~
joshuak
Haha, er trying to keep people on their toes. You win.

------
thisjustinm
I've been using an Ikea standing desk [1] off and on for a year and a half but
most recently all day for the past two months. I definitely feel better
overall (energy, alertness, etc) vs sitting. I have a trackball mouse and
Kinesis Freestyle 2 keyboard in addition to a raised external monitor and
laptop stand for ergonomics. The first two weeks my legs were very tired at
the end of the day but now I'm used to it. I have a padded mat and use a chair
to kneel on to switch up my posture and shift weight throughout the day. Now
that I'm adjusted I don't think I'll ever go back to sitting.

1 - [http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-
for-22-dolla...](http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-
for-22-dollars.html)

------
nivals
I've been standing for a year, no negative side effects to report. Initially
my concentration did go down, I think it's now probably back to normal levels.

One positive, if you work things other than typing it's much easier now to
sketch or assemble hardware. Typing etc is about the same. I do use a foot pad
and it provides a noticeable difference.

One thing that was not obvious at first was that the biggest difference to
foot fatigue/knots has been the type of shoe. I find that Converse 'Chucks'
cause the least fatigue. Funnily enough I have the same shoes from Zara that
OP has, and they were brutal on my feet in comparison to others.

Also to note, I thought that standing would reduce my levels of hip, calf, and
ankle tightness after workouts... that hasn't been the case.

------
brendoncrawford
Glad to hear author has had mostly positive experiences. A couple ways to
improve his ergonomics even more:

1\. Eyes should face straight ahead, not down. This keeps neck in vertically
aligned position

2\. Elbows should be at 90 degree angle. This will reduce tension on biceps
caused from elbows at an acute angle.

------
ClayM
The end of last year, I had a microdiscectomy for a severely ruptured disc.
L5/S1.

Soon thereafter, I made the switch to the standing desk via the $22 IKEA
standing desk.

It's been great. Don't get me wrong, the first couple weeks sucked. Feet hurt,
legs ached but eventually I adjusted. A fatigue mat helps, sometimes a wear
shoes or padded sandles, sometimes barefoot.

I can't go back.

In fact, I tried to switch back, couldn't do it. Did it for a week, switched
back to the standing desk.

I keep a fairly tall stool nearby, sometimes you just gotta take a load off,
but its great.

Fortunately I work from home, however I might be in trouble if I have to find
a new job.

I recommend giving it a shot if you've considered it. $22 is a pretty low
price to pay. And if those anti-sedentary guys are right, maybe you'll live
longer!

------
whiskii-inc
I am a little under a year in, biggest piece of advice is to watch your
wrists.

Make sure you keys are high enough to keep the discourage any pressure from
leaning forward. Even more important if you use a mouse.

I originally had mine about 2-3 inches too low. After two weeks - major pain.

------
lobster_johnson
I have two colleagues who now have _walking_ desks: Desks with a treadmill
underneath it.

It's certainly odd watching them in video conferences as their heads bob up
and down while we're all chatting. But it seems like a great way to stay fit.

~~~
toasterlovin
I don't have one, but I'm planning to build one in the near future. I've come
to realize that the real problem with sitting is that it puts the body in
stasis and standing doesn't really solve this.

------
smtddr
Nice. My office just got these for everyone about 2 weeks ago. At first my
feet were sore, but now I'm fine after about a week. Note that I already jog
for 20-30mins every morning so maybe I adapted a bit quicker than some. I
think the big change for me is that standing seems to reduce hunger and my
tendency to snack on stuff. Also, my stomach has stopped making those gurgle-
sounds that eating lunch then immediately sitting down for a hour seems to
cause. I also feel more energetic. Since I'm standing, coding and listening
polskastacja online radio(Google it!) I'm usually kinda dancing in place most
of the day. ^_^

~~~
mistercow
Perhaps sitting for long periods was a trigger for unhealthy snacking habits
for you. That alone could actually account for a major difference in energy
levels.

------
robomartin
You don't really have to choose between a standing or sitting desk nor spend a
ton of money on a motorized desk. Just get or build a standing height table
and buy a drafting stool:

[http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-
alias%3D...](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-
alias%3Daps&field-
keywords=drafting%20stool&sprefix=drafting+stool%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adrafting%20stool)

You can sit and you can stand. And, you get lots of permanent room under the
table that you would not have if the table was adjustable. I did one of our
labs this way and it was fantastic.

------
simplekoala
I have been doing this for about a month now. I am kicking myself for not
having made the switch anytime sooner. Come to think of it, I feel humans are
just not designed to sit for long hours in chairs. Standing position is
natural. You feel free and are less constrained compared to a sitting
position. Posture changes happen a lot more; And breaks you take are more
active or sometimes continuous. They also become less of a chore.

If there is an iota of doubt in your mind, that sitting for long hours is
somehow screwing up your back then please switch to a standing desk.

------
chaostheory
From personal experience, standing desks are great for back problems or
preventing them. However even after about four years of doing it I find that
you either need a lot of padding for your heels or you need to learn to stand
using the front portion of your feet.

Looking at the post about the only I don't like is that Arshad's setup doesn't
look ergonomic. I tend to have the keyboard about the same height as my waist
with my monitor closer in height to my head. For me when I didn't have that
setup, I began to have neck and wrist issues.

------
btbuildem
I use a standing desk with a bar chair (?) to sit down from time to time. Been
using it for a year; initially I'd get tired of standing, but with time it
became easy to stand for prolonged periods of time. Here's my setup:
[http://i.imgur.com/PjpwQXc.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/PjpwQXc.jpg) (it's a
little DIY :)

FWIW, I've had lower back issues for a long time, and this one change seems to
have improved my condition more than the multitude of exercises and treatments
I've tried over the years.

------
spindritf
I have an almost identical laptop table[1]. Is it a popular design? One
Chinese factory, 20 distributors all over the world kind of thing?

Anyway, when I use it in a standing desk configuration, I keep it much lower,
so my arms just drop onto the computer. It's rather nice but I prefer to
regularly (every hour or two) switch positions -- standing desk, lie down, sit
on the floor...

[1] [http://www.silentiumpc.com/en/atlas-nt-l10-notebook-
table/?l...](http://www.silentiumpc.com/en/atlas-nt-l10-notebook-
table/?lang=en)

------
playhard
Is there a possibility of getting Varicose veins in your legs by doing this?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicose_veins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicose_veins)

------
dabernathy89
I'm a few days in, and my feet are pretty sore. I've been trying to get into
it slowly, with sitting breaks. What has surprised me the most is that I don't
feel more drained at the end of the day - if anything, I have more energy than
before.

edit: one negative I have noticed - which I hope goes away - is with
concentration. I'm having a hard time switching between tasks. Once i'm on
one, I'm fine, but for some reason my brain is resisting starting new tasks
more than when I was sitting.

~~~
mkeung
Look into getting a fatigue mat. I had the exact same issue when I started,
and standing on the mat helps reduce the soreness.

edit: I used [http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-
for-22-dolla...](http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-
for-22-dollars.html) to get a standing desk for cheap

~~~
dabernathy89
Yeah, I picked one up from Bed Bath and Beyond and it's helped a lot. First
day (without it) was brutal.

edit: funny, I also hacked mine together with Ikea parts. Looks pretty good
too.

------
JVIDEL
I can testify for the back pain: I used to get almost chronic lower-back
(lumbar) pain, but now that I moved to a standing desk the pain has
disappeared.

------
Ziomislaw
One thing which struck me as strange is the picture. I mean, don't your hands
start to ache when you keep them in air without no place to rest them? (his
elbows are hanging in the air, not resing on some solid surface) Personally I
can't manage typing comfortably without keeping my elbows at the table.

------
AznHisoka
"First, what did not happen: I didn’t develop any knee, foot, back, or hip
pains. I don’t feel exhausted at the end of the day or week. My productivity
and ability to concentrate did not go down."

Am I misunderstanding the double negatives here? Are these things that DID
happen?

~~~
arshadgc
Good point. I'll have to fix that paragraph.

------
Miyamoto
What is a good stool or drafting chair for a standing desk, for a person
around 6 ft? I have a standing desk but I haven't been able to find a
compatible drafting chair or stool for my height. They all don't raise high
enough.

------
pizu
Also - your arms and wrists should really be horizontal to your elbows or near
horizontal. Looking at the picture...your wrists are way too high above your
elbows...this is bad and will cause the blood to flow away from your fingers.

------
bdkoepke
I hope this isn't another case of 'the suit is back':

[http://ajpm-online.net/article/S0749-3797(10)00412-5/abstrac...](http://ajpm-
online.net/article/S0749-3797\(10\)00412-5/abstract)

------
breckenedge
Anyone else out there using a balance board in addition to standing? I began
using a 16" balance board at the same time as switching to a standing desk, so
I cannot honestly evaluate the difference of having one or not.

------
sqqqrly
Instead of a motorized desk, use a second cheap computer. Put it on a fixed
standing desk.

Learn to use tmux, screen, or remote desktop protocol. Use them to operate
your real computer which is in front of your chair equipped desk.

------
therandomguy
Doesn't this cause Varicose veins: [http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/varicose-
veins/DS00256](http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/varicose-veins/DS00256)

------
agumonkey
At this point he's almost ready for wearable computing. Thanks to him for
talking about his experience, it's an inspiration to follow the same steps.

------
jchrisa
I've been doing the for a few months and my experience is similar. Especially
the impatience with sitting thing. I can't stand car rides.

------
treetrouble
What model laptop stand is he using in the picture?

------
coin
Nice article, but pinchzoom is disabled on mobile devices. This makes it
impossible to zoom in on the comments (smaller text).

------
moron4hire
I used one for about 6 months every day for about 6 hours a day before I
couldn't take the pain in my lower back anymore.

------
auctiontheory
I love my IKEA Jerker standing desk. IKEA no longer sells them, but you can
pick one up on Craigslist for under $100.

------
ancarda
Will this work for my monitor and keyboard? I need a way to elevate my desktop
as I don't have a laptop.

~~~
fzzzy
It should be even better as the monitor can be at eye level and the keyboard
and mouse can be at a comfortable height.

~~~
emmelaich
Yes, I think so too.

In fact I think using a laptop standing (or sitting for that matter) is less
than optimum; the screen will be too low and the keyboard too high.

------
zurgul
Honestly, how many of you decided to see/buy Power 20 application after
reading of this article? ;)

------
colmvp
Anyone have options for people who can't stand for prolonged periods of time?

~~~
pbreit
Yes, use a high chair. Pretty much any decent one [1] will do since you aren't
spending a full day in it (but get at least a decent one, not a cruddy one).

1:
[http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=drafting+chair](http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=drafting+chair)

I far prefer a high chair to an adjustable desk. Adjustable desks involve too
much of a mental decision and then a couple minutes of downtime every time.
And added cost.

~~~
Miyamoto
The problem with drafting chairs is tall people. I have yet to find one in the
45-50" maximum seat height range suitable for people 6 ft or taller. (Most
drafting chairs extend to around 40" seat height, which is way too low for a
tall person)

------
lizelfman
That seals it - I need to get one of these pronto.

------
marshray
He neglected to mention another effect: it also makes you two years older.

------
Dewie
But... how will agile teams get anything more out of standup meetings if
everyone is used to standing up anyway? :/ :)

~~~
vidarh
You switch to doing the meetings while walking up and down the stairs. Or
balancing on one leg.

~~~
vacri
"From today, staff, instead of the morning 'stand-up', we will be 'legging
it'"

------
LekkoscPiwa
I tried it for a little over a month. Just doesn't work for me. Very bad knee
pain, shoulders pain, felt not tired but kind of awkward. Felt like
punishment. My fat ass prefers sitting. Period.

