
France’s Economy Minister on French Startups - trueduke
http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/15/frances-economy-minister-emmanuel-macron-on-french-startups/
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bsaul
I don't know a single french entrepeneur that doesn't think about leaving the
country if its start up starts to become successful. And those who are
successful all tell me either to not hire anyone ( work with contractors
instead), or leave the country.

Our culture is rotten to its core. Emmanuel macron is trying to change that,
but he has no power at all, and every single president is scared to death of
the risks he would take by going too far on the liberal side ( liberal
candidate never make more than 10% ). French like big, safe, and conservative
structures. They complain a lot about it, and then vote for the candidates
that promise to maintain the status quo.

~~~
aout
Then meet me. I can also give you a list of french entrepreneurs that love
Paris, France and hire a lot of people. Just look at Save, BlaBlaCar and
Criteo. Also, remember that our social system is the biggest VC in Europe,
allowing thousand of entrepreneurs to keep their "old job salaries" while
working on their own companies.

It seems to me you are just the typical example of "French Bashing" : always
complaining and seeing the bad side of things.

~~~
chrisseaton
So why aren't there any major new international tech players coming out of
France? I've heard of BlaBlaCar, but none of the three listed are exactly
heavyweights.

I'm not anti-France and I'd ask the same question of my own country, the
United Kingdom.

If the social security allows you to start your own company, and if people are
cheaper, and cost of living is lower, then why can't Europe produce a Google,
Facebook, Apple, Oracle, Microsoft?

~~~
seren
The social system is fine to bootstrap for a year because you'll have 60% of
your old salary, "free" healthcare and education, but once you have to raise
millions to grow quickly, it won't help. To produce a Google or Facebook, you
need a flawless execution, a right timing and a boatload of money.

~~~
adventured
To build a Google or Facebook, you of course also have to get the US market.

So you have to accelerate to massive scale across Europe, and then conquer the
US market before a US company conquers the US and spreads across Europe. It's
clearly a far more difficult proposition for the European company. The only
alternative I can think of that might work, is for European companies to start
with targeting the US market first (a challenging concept in its own right -
to target a foreign market first).

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ThomPete
France problem is Europes problem.

One of the big issues in Europe is that it has no culture for letting civil
society handle it's issues. Instead it tries to mostly solve it through EU
regulation.

Further more as the EU moves to standarize regulation across the countries
it's in effect disrupting startups by changing the underlying legal reality
they exist on.

Of course it's possible to build companies in Europe but mostly they will be
"better mousetrap" companies rather than actual disrupters.

Furthermore because of the way income taxation works in most of Europe the
amount of money that someone can make from a startup they worked for making it
big is relatively limited. In effect instead of spending some of the money
they have made on investing in other startups they end up maybe buying a house
or something like that because it's simply rarely that much they will make.

This is not a sustainable model.

You can't both take away initiative from the startups, while making your
labour laws so strict that it's hard to pay with equity, while eating most of
the spoils in taxes and at the same time expect European startups to stand a
chance.

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elcapitan
Bottom line of the discussion in this thread is that a combination of those 2
worlds would be ideal: having a strong social system that allows people to
tinker for a while without living in fear, plus a not completely overregulated
venture capital market for the stuff that works out. Right?

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bobby_9x
The problem is that it's very difficult to go from startup phase to mid-sized
company phase in a system with as many regulations and taxes as France.

It means that your only shot is to get bought out by a larger conglomerate at
some point.

~~~
germainb
France does have regulation, but so does the US - industrial nations are
generally over-regulated today. France also does not have a legal system that
is as costly as the US, so litigation risk is less important.

Taxes don't really play on this --> many startups don't make a profit ;-) .
Social Security might, but a talented engineer in France still costs less
overall than the same one in the Bay Area and employee loyalty is higher.

One issue is uncertainty over government intervention, there is a bad history
of the French government weighing-in on M&A activity. But the real issue is
raising funds - while Seed rounds are generally covered by, among other
things, government loans/subsidies, the ecosystem is lacking funds financing
Series A and B. Here the government tries to provide incentives but pension
funds are not the right level of financing for these rounds...the VC ecosystem
needs to grow and that is a challenge because of a risk-averse culture.

If I were a VC in the US, I would see France as an opportunity.

~~~
avz
> France does have regulation, but so does the US

It isn't about the presence of _some_ regulation. It is about the burdens and
costs associated with it.

French regulations are very cumbersome and costly, especially when it comes to
labour market. For example, every company with 50 or more employees needs to
establish a works council ( _Comité d’Entreprise_ ). This costs money and
time. It is also one of many examples of regulation that brings about the
culture of hostility between employees and employers.

~~~
Signez
> For example, every company with 50 or more employees needs to establish a
> works council (Comité d’Entreprise). This costs money and time.

Actually, not that much. You have one year to install it, and it mainly
consists of an election you have to organize. If you can't organize that kind
of stuff once every two year or so, I don't understand how you can face other
business challenges.

> It is also one of many examples of regulation that brings about the culture
> of hostility between employees and employers.

In most of the companies, it only consists of giving money to employees and
managers picked charities and giving perks like theaters tickets.

All of this is really manageable for startups with more than 50 employees, and
most of the time, it is already done by them to attract employees.

------
gizi
The startup scene consists of say 100 individuals or small groups who will try
something. One will succeed and 99 will fail. This is normal. What is not
normal, is that countries like France will persecute the 99 other ones, and
even put them in prison, because they are unable to keep paying taxes and
contributions now that their project has failed. Since none of the 100
starters knew if they would be the lucky one, they feel it is too risky to
try. They are right, and the risk that they are trying to avoid, is created by
the government.

There is a reason why governments prefer large companies, don't like small
companies, and discourage starting one. If a large company employs 1000
persons, they only need to speak to 1 person to collect taxes on all 1000. It
would be a problem, if they had to collect them from each individual person
one by one, from all 1000. Large companies make life easier to them. So, they
discourage people from being self-employed or create small companies. One way
to do that, is to punish them harshly if they fail.

The biggest problem that the government has, is that their policy is actually
working. Nobody wants to start a new company. With old companies gradually
becoming outdated and disappearing, that is not such a good thing. So, now
they want to encourage people to do something that they also discourage them
from doing.

~~~
brohee
> Nobody wants to start a new company.

This is ridiculously wrong, see [https://media.apce.com/file/59/9/france-
entiere_fs_2013.7059...](https://media.apce.com/file/59/9/france-
entiere_fs_2013.70599.pdf)

~~~
tobltobs
This numbers are completly screwed through the invention of the new auto-
entrepreneur status five years ago. But this new status is not suitable for
any startup. Thats nice for plombiers or other handy mans. But even those
should avoid to earn more than a basic income.

~~~
tarsinge
It's great to start a consulting activity too

~~~
brohee
Well hopefuly you bill enough that you need to create an EIRL or EURL, auto-
entrepreneur status is not good for a successful consulting activity, unless
it's a side gig.

~~~
GrumpyBen
That's why he said "start" :)

