
“Carpe Diem” Got Lost in Translation - diodorus
https://daily.jstor.org/how-carpe-diem-got-lost-in-translation/
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doc_gunthrop
So "carpe diem" is akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers".

Admittedly, there was a time when I considered the phrase "memento mori"
(translated as "remember death") to be similar to the general public's
interpretation of "carpe diem", though a closer examination shows it's more
focused on the acceptance of one's mortality.

~~~
acqq
> akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers".

Actually, "pluck the ripe fruit" and use the day to enjoy it, which is far
from the connotation of "stop and smell", where one just stops for a moment,
smells the flower and continues going wherever he goes (which would be again
too convenient and matching the currently established cultural expectations).
The Chi Luu's article refers to this work by Maria S. Marsilio:

[https://www.jstor.org/stable/23048886?mag=how-carpe-diem-
got...](https://www.jstor.org/stable/23048886?mag=how-carpe-diem-got-lost-in-
translation)

published in 2010 which analyzes the poem.

We also have the whole poem with the recent translation online:

[https://www.loebclassics.com/view/horace-
odes/2004/pb_LCL033...](https://www.loebclassics.com/view/horace-
odes/2004/pb_LCL033.45.xml)

so everybody can read it himself.

According to the 2010 Marsilio's scholarly article (and my understanding of
it) in the poem the poet speaks to Leuconoe, a woman who wanted to consult the
horoscopes about her and him, he being the poet himself, that is, she
cautiously wanted to see what would future bring to two of them together
(probably to decide if she'd accept the poet's approach). The poet,
conveniently for him, tells the woman to "pluck the day" (which is seen by
some as having almost an erotic feel) and not worry for the long-term future,
even to "cut back far-reaching hopes to within a small space".

In the words of Marsilio: "Horace wants to share with Leuconoe the pleasures
of the present - chiefly wine and love - since "envious time" (invida aetas)
attempts to rob them of the enjoyments of life and they may not have the
future to enjoy these pleasures."

And the article we all comment here, by Chi Luu, argues that "Gathering
flowers as a metaphor for timely enjoyment is a far gentler, more sensual
image than the rather _forceful and even violent_ concept of _seizing_ the
moment" and "By seizing the day rather than plucking it like a flower,
however, we’re actually conforming to hidden cultural values that we all
share, not looking at the world in a different way from the norm, but in the
same way as everyone else. These are cultural values that some argue have been
co-opted by advertisers to sell us more things that we’re told will make us
happier." (More argumentation is in the text, so I won't repeat it all here,
but it's needed to be read to be able to discuss the article's messages).

~~~
Izkata
So, more like "savour the moment"?

~~~
acqq
Sorry, no. That long article attempts to explain why one "lost in translation"
and that would be another. Again, from the article:

"As Latin scholar Maria S. Marsilio points out, “carpe diem” is a
horticultural metaphor that, particularly seen in the context of the poem, is
more accurately translated as “plucking the day,” evoking the plucking and
gathering of ripening fruits or flowers, enjoying a moment that is rooted in
the sensory experience of nature."

(I've already plucked some ripe fruits this summer and I can only advise those
who can't relate to the original meaning to try doing this once too. FWIW
Steve Jobs knew and apparently that's how he named the company:

[http://www.minyanville.com/special-
features/articles/little-...](http://www.minyanville.com/special-
features/articles/little-known-fact-about-steve-jobs/3/22/2011/id/33106)

"Steve was coming back from a visit to Oregon to a place he called an 'apple
orchard.' Steve suggested a name - Apple Computer" )

~~~
kazinator
So, "take in the day" perhaps.

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jasonhansel
Interesting fact: there's a personality-testing company called "abeo." They
claim that their name in Latin means "I am transformed."

The actual meaning, though, is "I go away." The word only refers to
transformation in certain metaphorical contexts (compare the English idiom "go
up in smoke").

(Can't find the link. The name must have worked!)

~~~
benj111
Considering the number of Latin named companies I'd be surprised if there
weren't more with misunderstood names.

If sure if you read Chinese, you'd be able to find some interesting tatoos
also.

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LoSboccacc
here's the thing, these are both valid interpretations on the larger context
of the poem which is destiny and uncertainty.

it sure means live in the moment as don't worry too much about the future, but
it's not an ode to full carelessness and hedonism, the next phrase
specifically don't say 'don't believe in the future' but to minimally rely on
it.

it's the Epicurean sentiment of future being partly in control of destiny and
in part of fate, being a result of both our actions of today and randomness in
the form of actions of everything else living and inanimate.

the 'minimally rely on tomorrow' qualify the 'carpe diem' into something
between enjoy the moment and take the opportunity you see.

the reference to 'not worry about the future' but still 'prepare the vine for
tomorrow' in the prior paragraph is clear enough about it, while being random
life goes on. there's a strong theme of not believing to being able to control
the future as introduction to the specific passage, which comes intentionally
with the ambiguous term to broaden it into multiple meaning. carpe as harvest
suggest that the author wanted to include both the 'enjoy the moment' and
'take the opportunities in it' meanings.

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gioscarab
Hi guys, I am Italian and have mandatorily studied latin at school for 10
years. We have been tought "Carpe Diem" means "Cogli l'attimo" or "Grab/Catch
the moment". The idea is to remind you to fully live your life and make good
use of the available opportunities.

~~~
sova
Carpe (monocarpic, polycarpic) originally means "to fruit" so the article
contends that this means to zestfully pluck each moment, in a similar, but
less energetic, spastic, and violent way. More akin to savoring the flavor.
Although this does contradict many years of "common sense latin training" for
many of us.

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juliendorra
The translation that I learned in French is "Cueille le jour" ("Cueillir un
fruit/une fleur" being equivalent to "picking a fruit/flower"). It is
apparently the consensus translation in French [1]. It gives the phrase a very
light tone, and makes it indubitably about the pleasures of life.

Indeed, "Gathering flowers as a metaphor for timely enjoyment is a far
gentler, more sensual image than the rather forceful and even violent concept
of seizing the moment."

[1]
[https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem)

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kerng
This is splitting hairs - had a discussion with a German speaking friend and
there its translated to something like use or make the most out of the day.

~~~
marton78
The canonical German translation is "pflücke den Tag", which is exactly "pluck
the day", as suggested in the article.

~~~
davrosthedalek
German here. Never heard that translation. Could be either regional or an old
translation. Here, we would say "Nutze den Tag" \-- "make use of the day" in
the sense of "don't waste it".

~~~
chmars
You are right:

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem)

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inflatableDodo
>Editors’ Note: An earlier version of this referred to philosopher Roman
Krznaric as Austrian; in fact he is Australian.

Very easy mistake to make when you have here an Australian philosopher who for
some utterly inexplicable reason, probably deeply philosophical, refuses to
call themselves Bruce.

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zouhair
Who cares. Words have no inherent meaning but the ones we give them. For all
intent and purposes Carpe Diem is Seize The Day.

~~~
goatlover
Then you missed the point that the metaphors we use betray a consumerist and
militaristic cultural preference, which is why Carpe Diem became Seize the
Day. This matters because culture influences our thinking by the metaphors we
use.

~~~
sova
portray

