
Telegram Desktop reaches version 1.0 - chrisan
https://telegram.org/blog/desktop-1-0
======
Philipp__
Native all the way! Opening github page of app and seeing that pink line
instead of yellow (line that represents languages used in project) made me
smile! I am really surprised they did native app, plus it looks really nice, I
tought "sigh, another electron app", but to my surprise I was wrong! Good job
for guys at Telegram, respect.

~~~
runn1ng
I don't get it.

Why is native better than browser application? Browser application is by
definition better sandboxed and can do much less damage to the system.

Normal application can do mayhem. And Telegram needs root access for
installation... do I want to give it root access? When I can just open another
tab?

~~~
matthewmacleod
Electron apps _are still native apps_ and have the same security story. They
just include a browser.

~~~
runn1ng
Oooh, people are comparing native and _Electron apps_. Then yeah, in that case
native makes sense.

I thought they are talking about the chrome app version of telegram, which I
am using right now.

------
Karrot_Kream
I love Telegram for the usability more than anything else, and don't really
care for the encryption (which I find more of a curiosity).

Telegram hits a few sweet spots with me:

    
    
      - Movement between devices is seamless (I can go from my webview in BSD to my Mac OS Native to my iOS native app and not miss a beat).
    
      - Telegram is very reliable in situations with poor connectivity. This is pure anecdote on my side, but in the most crowded venues I've been to: Messenger, Line, and WhatsApp have performed worse than Telegram.
    
      - Telegram's API is ridiculously open, even if it's backend source isn't. For most practical purposes, Telegram gives you full access, and is completely okay with you creating a 3rd party client
    

I've managed to win over a lot of my close friends and family onto Telegram,
and while they initially objected over the lack of social proof, the features
ended up luring them over, and many of them are _not_ technically literate.

~~~
hvidgaard
As much as Signal from a idealistic point of view is better, Telegram works so
well between my desktop and phone that it's a no brainer.

------
pawelwentpawel
A brilliant native desktop app is one of the reasons why I prefer telegram
over other apps of this kind. It's smooth, light and easy to use.

~~~
blauditore
Also, unlike WhatsApp web, it's not a proxy for the phone app, thus doesn't
drain its battery and still works if your phone is broken or lost.

~~~
disiplus
i like the whatsapp web because i dont have to install something now just so i
could send a message to somebody, and because its a proxy for the phone app i
dont have to worry that i got the message on the desktop but its not synced to
mobile ( im looking at you skype )

~~~
chrisan
You can use a web version of telegram:
[https://telegram.org/](https://telegram.org/)

~~~
jaflo
[https://web.telegram.org/](https://web.telegram.org/)

------
sneak
PSA: Telegram is dangerous snake oil—bad crypto.

Don't use it, don't let friends use it.

[https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/81899003583181619...](https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/818990035831816192)

[https://twitter.com/kaepora/status/819181464369577984](https://twitter.com/kaepora/status/819181464369577984)

[https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/81919238137120358...](https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/819192381371203584)

~~~
hn159753
I was just about to post something similar. I'm actually surprised to see a
positive post of Telegram on HN. For the love of crypto, please stick to
Signal protocol-based messaging applications.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Protocol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Protocol)

Edit: add link [http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-
crypta...](http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-
cryptanalysis-contest)

~~~
Freak_NL
Are there any Signal-based messaging applications that work on the desktop
without having to tether an Android or IOS smartphone to it, and without
having to use a phone number as identifier?

~~~
hn159753
Facebook Messenger.

~~~
rand77763
Wait, are you saying messenger is secure and private? As if Facebook would
want to give up a source of data for marketing?

~~~
tptacek
It's opt-in end-to-end encrypted with Signal Protocol now, so Facebook does in
fact give up that data. Having said that, you should prefer protocols that
aren't opt-in for security, which is what Signal buys you.

------
cygned
Things I noticed so far:

\- Dark Skin (still waiting for Slack doing it)

\- It's faster than the MAS version

\- It's not possible to collapse the chat list anymore

\- The desktop app is responsive, though, collapsing the whole sidebar into a
hamburger menu

\- Replying to messages is buried in a context menu, in the MAS version one
could simply double click a message

\- They created a giant group for themes. Once 4chan joins there, things will
go very bad

~~~
konart
>Dark Skin (still waiting for Slack doing it)

Any number of any skins, actually. Themes.

~~~
cygned
Indeed. Sorry for being unclear.

~~~
Cederfjard
[https://get.slack.help/hc/en-
us/articles/205166337-Customize...](https://get.slack.help/hc/en-
us/articles/205166337-Customize-your-Slack-theme)

Or am I misunderstanding you?

~~~
justingood
This is useful, but only applies to the sidebar theme. Slack doesn't currently
support styling the main window.

------
newscracker
Congratulations to the team! The native desktop apps have been top notch in
user experience, speed and stability. Among messaging apps, Telegram has been
my favorite for some years. Its development speed and feature introductions,
at least in my knowledge, are unparalleled.

I've always liked the multi-device sync feature in Telegram and can't imagine
using an app without that. My main concerns have been the home grown crypto
and that normal chats are not end-to-end encrypted (only secret chats are). So
I've been trying Wire [1] for a while, which provides both multi-device sync,
multi-OS apps and end-to-end encrypted chats by default (there is no non-E2E
chat). But it needs some more time to become much better (it's comparatively
quite slow to startup and sync messages). Unfortunately, for all the fame that
Signal [2] has on crypto and end-to-end encryption, it's the slowest in
feature development among these apps.

[1]: [https://wire.com](https://wire.com)

[2]: [https://whispersystems.org](https://whispersystems.org)

------
wowtip
Some of my friends are moving from Skype to Discord, but it seems to be a
plethora of new IM clients popping up all the time.

From what I can see Telegram doesn't have VoIP, which could be a deal breaker
for some. Are there other advantages with Telegram compared to Discord that
makes up for the lack of voice?

~~~
konart
Telegram never planned implementing VoIP, as far as I remember, only voice
messages.

The main reasons it's so popular (with some users, 100+ mil of them) - bots
(telegram has open api, and bt platform [https://telegram.org/blog/bot-
revolution](https://telegram.org/blog/bot-revolution)) and channels. In Russia
- telegram channels is now a new type of media, very popular with independent
journalists, bloggers etc.

~~~
nv-vn
I wonder how difficult it would be to add voice chats using a custom client.
I've thought about doing some experiments extending the feature list (e.g.
calls, different encryption layers, etc.) by forking an existing client and
using some hacks to send custom data, but I don't have the time to try it at
the moment.

~~~
konart
Well, 3rd party client can use Telegram protocol for texting etc, and Jingle
for VoIP.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_(protocol)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_\(protocol\))

------
zamalek
Now if only everyone that I know used Telegram.

~~~
lucb1e
Everyone I want to talk to uses Telegram, and those who didn't (a few years
ago) I convinced. "You want me to install Skype/Whatsapp/something, but why
should I rather than you?"

It helped that most people saw the advantages that Telegram had, especially
back then (before whatsapp cloned everything). Not to say that Telegram didn't
clone whatsapp to a large degree, but the introduction of telegram definitely
made the market innovative again.

~~~
zamalek
The problem is that I already have Whatsapp installed, having been an early-
adopter. I can't get my family onto Telegram (high signal) and I can't get my
friends onto Discord (high noise). Whatsapp is dreadful for both.

------
r721
It's so stupid that I can't read public channels without providing a valid
phone number. I don't need any secrecy, just want to read damn blog posts!

~~~
nv-vn
Hm, this gets me thinking... it wouldn't take much work to get a public
channel viewer website working.

~~~
r721
Yeah, there exist a couple (I googled) - but they tend to lag or show only
mod-approved channels.

------
yarauuta
I use Telegram with my geek friends. Works.

~~~
lucb1e
My friends are geeks and my family got Telegram as well now. Works!

~~~
thekid314
Journalists used to use telegram to communicate with Jihadis in
Syria/Iraq/Egypt but not anymore because it was highly suspected Russia had
access to the conversations. Works?

~~~
kirkdouglas
Got any proof?

------
kennu
There appear to be two Telegram apps on Mac App Store: Telegram Desktop
0.10.20 and Telegram 2.30. I guess neither is the same as this one?

------
rnhmjoj
How can it be at 1.0 and still have not implemented secret chats?

~~~
sergimansilla
Um, secret chats have been there for a long time.

~~~
rnhmjoj
It doesn't seem so:
[https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/871](https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/871)

~~~
sambe
To clarify: secret chats have been present on Telegram as a platform for a
long time. The desktop client doesn't seem to support them though.

This often leads to people saying things like "Telegram doesn't have end-to-
end encryption". Really, what they mean is that it's not the default and isn't
on all platforms. Most people can use it if they want to though because it's
available on all major mobile OSes.

~~~
notheguyouthink
What is this "Desktop Client", i don't get it -_-

I use the Telegram app on my OSX Laptop, and i use Secret chats. They seem
identical to my Android secret chats. What am i missing?

~~~
rnhmjoj
Telegram desktop [1] aka "tdesktop" is the official telegram desktop client,
it's based on Qt and it's cross platform (Windows, GNU/Linux, OS X). What you
have been using must be "Telegram for OS X" [2], a different application
entirely, which supports only OS X obviously. IIRC tdesktop didn't support OS
X initially.

[1]:
[https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop](https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop)
[2]:
[https://github.com/overtake/telegram](https://github.com/overtake/telegram)

~~~
notheguyouthink
Interesting, thanks for the clarification! Seeing as OSX has secret chats, i
may as well stick with it heh.

------
ajoy
[https://medium.freecodecamp.com/why-i-asked-my-friends-to-
st...](https://medium.freecodecamp.com/why-i-asked-my-friends-to-stop-using-
whatsapp-and-telegram-e93346b3c1f0#.zaf0dg8zj)

To those who think privacy does not matter :
[http://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters](http://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters)

------
electic
I still find this native client is the best:
[https://macos.telegram.org/](https://macos.telegram.org/). It is wicked fast
vs. QT version.

~~~
robinhood
I agree. I've installed Telegram Desktop, played with it, and revert to the
native macOS client a few hours later. I don't care about animations at all or
even the themes. I also didn't like the fact that the icon keeps jumping when
receiving new messages. The macOS version works better for my personal
preference.

------
konart
Telegram is one of the best solutions thanks to its bots and channels.

------
lightedman
Did they actually include a functional contact list this time? That's why I
ditched it like a hot potato each time they had an update and I tried it.

~~~
lightedman
NOPE. Still the same useless contact list. Even AOL Instant Messenger, 20+
years old, manages to get this right.

------
wslh
I really like Telegram but the desktop version doesn't have security channels,
which I think, nowadays, are escencial.

------
leoreeves
I use WhatsApp currently and so does everyone I know, is it worth switching
and trying to convince other people to use it?

~~~
mtgx
Not until Telegram also adopts end-to-end encryption by default, as WhatsApp
has done.

I'm not sure they even have a real reason for not doing it yet. At this point
there are at least a couple other open source protocols that work like Signal
but have nothing to do with Signal and Open Whisper Systems, that they could
adopt. So even if they hate OWS for criticizing them in the past, that's not a
reason not to adopt the alternatives at this point.

I'd probably be content if they even take one of those and fork it and
customize it for their own purposes, as long as their "math Ph.Ds" don't
completely break the crypto again.

~~~
nicolapcweek94
Of course they have a real reason: message sync. Telegram works on your PC, in
your browser, on your phone, on your tablet, in your raspberry pi tty... all
with the same messages synced everywhere, which you wouldn't be able to get
with end2end crypto. Sure, Whatsapp kinda does it with the web/desktop
clients, but it's a horrible hack requiring your phone to be on and connected
all the time...

~~~
mderazon
How is it related? AFAIK Signal has sync between desktop and mobile doesn't
have to be constantly on to use the desktop client

~~~
nicolapcweek94
Signal does have sync, but it works exactly the same way as Whatsapp's does,
requiring your phone to be on and connected

Telegram's secret chats are also client-specific and not synced, and I have no
idea how it would even be possible to have e2e chats synced on multiple
devices without having a "main" device that's doing the actual crypto or
sharing the secret key

~~~
dchest
If you're interested in learning how to implement end-to-end chats with
multiple devices, checkout out Wire security whitepaper
([https://wire.com/resource/Wire%20Security%20Whitepaper/downl...](https://wire.com/resource/Wire%20Security%20Whitepaper/download/))
for one way of doing it.

Hopefully, OpenWhisperSystems will release documentation about their
implementation in Signal (note: it doesn't require phone, unlike WhatsApp)

~~~
nicolapcweek94
Thanks! Will definitely read this.

I got fooled by Signal's requirement of a phone for the activation and thought
it was also required for normal usage, I guess that's better than Whatsapp,
though being able to register and use it without a phone at all would be even
better (even Telegram doesn't do this though, IIRC it requires a phone number)

~~~
nickik
You can just use a one time VoiP phone number if you want to use Signal
without your real phone number. That's not optimal, but its pretty neat.

------
vially
Congrats for the release but they really need to fix the mobile notifications
when using the desktop client [1]

[1] -
[https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/277](https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/277)

------
edem
Can I connect it to Skype/Facebook/IRC?

~~~
lucb1e
IRC: kind of, you can have a bot that joins a Telegram group and the IRC
channel and forwards messages. It's getting more and more common.

Other than bots, the client is really a Telegram client, not something like
Pidgin.

Personally I don't mind, since everyone's on Telegram. I actually prefer to
have a client that's excellent with one network rather than a client that does
quite well with many networks. Having used Pidgin and other multi-network
clients in the past, they are always second rate compared to the official
client. And with bots (irc to telegram bot; gmail to telegram bot; etc.) all I
need is the Telegram client.

As for Skype, how do you want to connect it? Microsoft doesn't allow it, and
neither would Whatsapp. Telegram on the other hand has no problem if you make
a custom client...

~~~
edem
> Personally I don't mind, since everyone's on Telegram.

I don't know a single person who is on Telegram. My friends have not even
heard of it despite the fact that they all talk online and a good percentage
of them are developers. Why would I start using it if no one I know uses it?

~~~
lucb1e
Because that's how it gets started.

Bad example: I knew nobody on Google+ but I made some new friends. The network
died again, or at least I stopped using it after a year and a half or
something, so it's a bad example in that it didn't work out in the end, but
yeah that's how things get started. Why do you think the first million people
got Whatsapp? If you don't try something new and convince at least one other
person to use it, how would things ever change?

~~~
edem
Why would I want to use telegram in the first place?

~~~
lucb1e
1\. It's not Facebook's

2\. The clients are open source (for me that's a moral reason)

3\. Secret chats are verifiably encrypted

4\. You can make your own client if you want, causing:

4.1. Someone used a custom client (tgcli) to create a backup feature, which I
extended to make html exports like MSN had (quite a future-proof and readable
format). This prevents lock-in.

4.2. You are much less restricted in your choice of operating system, given
you or someone else takes the effort of porting or writing a client.

5\. The existing desktop client is native and doesn't require your phone to be
turned on and have data active.

6\. The clients have lots of features like custom themes, sending large files,
setting up a username which can be linked to publicly, creating broadcast
channels, pinned chats, etc. I'm not sure how much of this whatsapp
implemented by now. It's true that Telegram also copied other products a lot,
but they added lots of features that competitors didn't have, but nowadays
they do (it made the market more innovative again).

I'm also not saying _everyone_ should move to Telegram. Some monopolies are
better than others (some are owned by Facebook & other things I just
mentioned) but all monopolies are bad.

Additionally Whatsapp has some advantages like calling and knowing what the
profit model is. The latter is actually my greatest worry about Telegram, but
everything considered, Telegram is the best thing currently available in my
opinion.

~~~
edem
Good point. Do you have strategies which you used to convince your friends to
start using Telegram?

------
spinningarrow
It's still nowhere near as smooth as the native macOS app :(

EDIT: smiley

