
Imagining Sex Redistribution - stared
https://medium.com/@SexCoachSarah/imagining-sex-redistribution-5d330e9e4a44
======
jVinc
I feel like she's trying to set up a stawman here, arguing that sex is hard to
commodify, when in fact it's not. It's the oldest commodity there is. If she
spent 10 minutes with a prosititue she would know the exact value of "2
blowjobs, 3 handjobs, 1 anal sex, and 4 penis-in-vagina sexes" and could
directly translate what 20% of that works out to be and what the exact
exchange rate to any other desired services would be. Quite frankly to me she
comes off really foolish for going this angle rather than just argue against
the idea on it's actual merits.

The incel sex redistribution madness in my opinion isn't silly because it
tries to commodify sexual services, it's silly because it effectively becomes
forced prostitution of the entire nation for the benefit of an extreme
minority who are only heard by the public because their ideas are extreme
enough to be funny to laymen so they get pushed by social media and in
newspapers.

~~~
cheez
I agree with your premise that the article was a complete strawman.

I suspect most people here know someone who qualifies as an incel (the
harmless kind) and so I don't think it's such an insignificant minority. I
know I've had dry periods when I've gotten too busy with work or life. The
difference is that I know how to get back on the horse. Incels absolutely have
no clue what to do. Their growth is stunted.

Too bad, it's a topic that should be discussed. Previously, societal shame
forced people to get married and stay monogamous (or at least give that
impression). Once this no longer existed, the incel was born.

It's just evolution, IMO. But young men with no career/family prospects and no
sex are quite possibly the most dangerous kinds.

------
forkLding
I'm more for normalizing and legalizing sex work so that it can actually be
probably monitored for the benefit of sex workers and even clients. Making sex
work illegal hasn't stopped sex work nor customers and has only made sex work
non-transparent and potentially increase the harm on both sex worker and
client.

------
taxicabjesus
This article seems to be mostly tongue-in-cheek, written to advertise her
coaching services (for men). I found it annoying until the section at the end
titled "So What Could We Do Instead?" Point #3 is valid, [edit: I disagree
that #5 -- sex robots -- would be of any help whatsoever.]

> 3\. Redistributing actual money income and wealth in a way that prioritizes
> human well-being. A Universal Basic Income could go a long way toward ending
> the domestic abuse of women and girls, and would help people to approach
> each other more as equals in the sexual field. This would open up more
> sexual opportunities to everyone.

I think this is an important point that made the article worth reading. Some
young women are taken advantage of by men who've learned how to push their
buttons. I have a friend who was traumatized when she let herself be intimate
with males who weren't actually that interested in her...

Sometimes I find myself offering relationship advice to women. Last week I met
a lady who had a neat story about how she met her husband. Her sister had
dragged her to a wedding, future-husband stood up across the room, and she was
'instantly' intrigued. (This woman thought she wasn't very "intuitive", which
is why I asked if she was in a relationship. She'd tried to protest that she
didn't want to go to that wedding, but eventually "JUST GO!" won out.)

I gave her a rendition of "the difference between boys and girls" [0], which
she found to be quite amusing. For the most part, for women finding a
relationship is a matter of screening out the men they aren't interested in.
Men are biologically programmed to be interested in having "marital relations"
with any number of women who don't reciprocate, and it's mostly a numbers game
of expressing interest until you find someone who is interested.

[0] [https://www.taxiwars.org/2016/02/the-difference-between-
boys...](https://www.taxiwars.org/2016/02/the-difference-between-boys-
girls.html)

Relationship coaching for men is mostly about teaching them how to be less
obnoxious.

------
belorn
The practical suggestions at the end of the article looks good and shows that
the author is trying to help the situation, but I find the rest of the article
to miss the point and instead makes fun of a demographic where the highest
cause of death is from suicide. The problem is not about a lack of pleasure.
Loneliness, small or no social networks, and depressions are at an all time
high and society has done little to actually address those issue for the
demographic who currently suffer most from it.

Sex Redistribution is silly not just because it would be forced prostitution,
but also since it doesn't address the core issue for that demographic.
Loneliness is a difficult problem and groups like incel are a symptom. Reduce
loneliness overall in society and groups like incel would stop to exist.

~~~
stared
She is well aware of these issues. See her "Nerdy Boys, Fat Girls, and Access
to Sex" [https://medium.com/@SexCoachSarah/nerdy-boys-fat-girls-
and-a...](https://medium.com/@SexCoachSarah/nerdy-boys-fat-girls-and-access-
to-sex-a4893f13a61a)

Criticism, as far as I read, is towards the idea of sex redistribution, rather
than anything (or anyone) else.

------
subjectsigma
I'm not a traditionalist or fundamentalist at all, but this... This is
horrifying and degenerate. The fact that we're even talking about this is
sickening. The sex robots at the end made it a one-two punch, too.

Have you guys ever heard the thing about social movements and pendulums? The
pendulum swung way, _way_ too far after the sexual revolution.

~~~
olliej
Sorry, I cannot parse what you’re attacking? The article for calling out that
“redistributing sex” is insane, or the original senators claiming that sex
redistribution is a good idea?

~~~
subjectsigma
1) the fact that so-called 'incels' think so lowly of themselves and other
fellow human beings as to call for sex redistribution is disgusting.

2) the fact that 'incels' are an actual named group with an identity and
discussion surrounding them deeply disturbs something within me. I feel
simultaneously that free speech must be upheld but that we cannot give these
people a platform. This dissonace is uncomfortable. I also feel that identity
politics is is generally bad and that it caused this: the emphasis on all
experiences and ideas being special and valuable, and the idea that people
with similar apolitical characteristics can and should support each other
politically, set the stage for this.

3) There is nothing inherently wrong with sex workers or sex robots but I
still wish that myself, my friends, and my family never have a need for them.

To sum up some thoughts and respond to sibling comments: Sex is beautiful but
can be horrifying. So much evil has come from it. It seems to me that it
should be a private thing done in moderation. 'Private' could include multiple
partners or whatever you're into, and 'moderation' could mean different things
for different people, I suppose. But the idea is respect and humility and that
is found nowhere in this article. Sex "work" seems like a twisted oxymoron, as
does a sex "coach". But both may be practical and necessary, I don't know.

I admit this is not really rational argument but an emotional appeal. Is there
still room for that in the modern world?

~~~
olliej
For point 1, it’s not incels saying sex should be redistributed. The incel
mentality is that they are /owed/ sex in exchange for being “nice” to someone
(typically a woman, but I’m sure that their a gay incels).

The people suggesting redistribution of sex are politicians in response to the
incel who went on a rampage killing people because he couldn’t get laid.

For 3 sex work is _work_ , like any job it can have fun bits, but at the same
time I know former sex workers (weirdly enough it’s a field that becomes less
employable as you get older) who said it was a lot of work. You aren’t
necessarily doing things you enjoy, but you have to appear like you do. Also
apparently golden showers are/were popular which meant they were drinking
continuously and holding it. Chafing is a thug, etc.

------
klez
What about giving a sort of sex-voucher to those who need it and they can
spend them on legalized sex workers?

Socialized healthcare doesn't mean someone comes and takes my marrow, my blood
or one of my kidneys when they need them, it just means that my taxes fund
healthcare. So why can't it work the same way for sex, if needed?

~~~
WalterSear
They do something similar in Japan: special needs individuals can receive two
sexual experiences in their lifetime, provided by a government agency.

~~~
cntlzw
The Netherlands is subsidizing sex for the disabled.

------
stcredzero
We know the free market version works pretty well if you decriminalize it,
reducing crime and suffering in the process. This model would also probably
work with the automation discussed in the article's last paragraph.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Cousin works a lot with human rights, sustainable investment, women rights,
etc.

She claims despite all the legal status in Amsterdam, they are still mostly
women with psychological issues, drug problems or straight up trafficked,
which I find hard to believe, but made me more open to the idea.

------
petermcneeley
Monogamy solved this problem and at the same time allowed for pairbonding and
family formation.

The discussions in the article sound like type of commodification and
alienation that would have Marx spinning in his grave.

~~~
klez
> Monogamy solved this problem

Ok, but the article is about people who are _not_ in a relationship
(monogamous or otherwise) so for them it's not a solved problem.

~~~
ryanx435
We don't live in a monogamous society any longer. Divorce and cheating is
absolutely rampant.

------
blahblahblogger
> Normalizing sex work as work and having it become as ubiquitous and passe as
> massage therapy: “Hey, what are you doing after work? Getting a massage from
> Rafael, you know he’s amazing at finding all the sore spots. You? Going to
> see Isaac, my sex worker. His cunnilingus is divine.”

I don't know about that - it definitely commoditizes sex a bit too much for
me. Why even bother with the difficulty of relationships and love when you can
get your carnal needs met so easily?

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
> Why even bother with the difficulty of relationships and love when you can
> get your carnal needs met so easily?

Because relationships are far more than just a path to satisfying the carnal
need to have sex.

When I was single, I had a friend-with-benefits. Any time I wanted sex, I
could just give her a call.

But that kind of relationship doesn't satisfy the desire for companionship. I
had no interest in dating her because our personalities don't really work
together.

------
jacknews
I don't think the comparison with capitalist wealth redistribution works.

In that case, some people (capitalists) would be getting lots of other
peoples' (workers') orgasms, and so it would eeem quite fair (though complex)
to redistribute them.

~~~
noobiemcfoob
> some people (capitalists) would be getting lots of other peoples' (workers')
> orgasms

Isn't that plainly the case? The distribution of sex experiences is likely
very skewed, just inferring from network effects.

~~~
jacknews
Indeed, but everyone is at least getting their own orgasms, even if some are
getting much more than others.

The capitalism mapping would be that, as a worker, you do the seduction,
foreplay, and most of the build-up, and then hand the profits, the orgasm, to
the owner of the venue that facilitated the encounter.

And those owners are getting far more orgasms that they can possibly enjoy
directly, it becomes about the pleasure they get from the power of having so
much more than everyone else.

------
stared
Apparently got silent-flagged (as it disappeared from the front page). Sigh.

Does sex really need to a taboo topic here? (I guess it is the keyword,
otherwise the article is about an interesting thought experiment.)

~~~
jholman
What makes you think that it got flagged because sex is a taboo topic?

I followed the link because I think sex is an important topic, and should be
anti-taboo. I flagged it because I think it's a bad article. I mean, I'm not
riled up about it, but I don't think it's contributing in a positive way
(though I do think the author is trying).

On the bright side, I followed some suggested links at the bottom of the page,
and read a few short pieces that I thought were better-written, so there's
that.

~~~
stared
Well, because it already happened. I understand that some topics get not too
healthy conversations.

There are plenty of articles I furiously disagree with. I never flag them for
that reason (in fact, it never occurred to me that I should flag things for
that reason). For example, for one which was IMHO a pseudo-intellectual fest
(and even harmful for people not knowing much about AI):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17537907](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17537907)

Just curious, which links did you like?

~~~
Fjolsvith
Huh. I guess I never realized that flagging was the downvote.

------
ryanx435
No. If someone isn't good enough to find a mate, I don't want their genetics
in the next generation.

Evolution made us the best species in the history of the galaxy. Let's not
fuck it up now because some loser can't get laid.

~~~
Fjolsvith
By your logic, rapists will get their genetics in the next generation. They're
losers IMHO.

