

 Help UCincinnati keep its CS dept - meaydinli
http://csisimportant.blogspot.com/
Hi HN,<p>This is a very recent event, and I'd appreciate it if you can share your thoughts on this matter.<p>http://twitter.com/#!/csisimportant
http://csisimportant.blogspot.com/
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ggchappell
(1) This _really_ needs to be better explained. What is being proposed? Is it
simply a matter of reorganization, with faculty and programs being moved to a
different administrative unit? Or is it the elimination of programs and
classes? Or is it the elimination of positions, and the firing of tenured
faculty, etc.? The first is mostly an internal matter, of little interest to
the outside world. But the other two are more serious, and some of us out here
might want to take an interest.

More information, please.

(2) The grievances need work, too.

The first (Accreditation) is unclear. Even the complete elimination of a C.S.
program is not going to stop the university from being accredited. On the
other hand, if this is about program accreditation, then what is the issue?

The part about CS being an integral part of any good university does not make
sense. Do the writers think all students take CS courses?

Most of the rest of the grievances amount to "Will we have the support
necessary for the completion of our degrees?", which is certainly a worthwhile
question for the students to ask. On the other hand, it is not one with any
_long-term_ impact on the university.

But a couple of the grievances have great significance: "Enrollment has
increased in the department in the last 2 years. How can the Dean justify this
type of cut?" An excellent question. Also: "What are the facts behind this
decision? It is well known that the CS department has more enrollment than
other departments. So why CS is being dissolved?" This is what needs to be
emphasized, I think.

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rdtsc
I agree it is very confusing. The university will keep its accreditation and
if the program is eliminated what does accreditation even mean then?

CS will probably just end up being merged with Computer Engineering again into
some Computer Engineering and Computer Science department. Just like 4-5 years
ago before it was split up.

The biggest problem the way I see it, is that students might be _forced_ to
switch programs, and end up having different requirements for graduation.
That's what I would fear -- you took classes that now count for nothing and
you now have to take (and pay for!) classes you didn't plan on taking.

Mind you they already did this once when they switched CS from the College of
Arts and Science to College of Engineering. They gave students a choice so
they could either finish the degree they enrolled in or they could switch
colleges. It wasn't that bad really.

> The part about CS being an integral part of any good university does not
> make sense.

Agree.

They don't mention the main problem -- professors that don't care and don't do
much and just suck resources out like parasites. I wonder if eliminating a
department will provide a legal loophole to dump some undesirable tenured
professors and replace them with some who really care about research and
teaching.

~~~
csisimportant
The proposal is to dissolve the CS department. According to the Dean, his
"judgement call" places CS as "not a priority" for the future of UC. Therefore
specific CS classes will no longer be taught.

This effort is led by CS students. Clearly, the University of Cincinnati will
not lose it's status. The accreditation, therefore, is related to the current
College of Engineering, which was approved by the Ohio Board of Regents _with_
the CS department.

We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school _requires_ a
strong CS department. I guess this is not so with either of you...

~~~
rdtsc
> We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a
> strong CS department. I guess this is not so with either of you...

I understand your frustration, I went through the process when they switched
to the College of Engineering (I refused so I graduated from McMicken). I
doubt they will simply kick you out, they will have to let you graduate from
the program they admitted you to. They will probably stop receiving new
freshmen into the program.

You are right, I do not see it as a big deal. You end up with the same
professors there. Just switching names and departments a couple of times
doesn't really matter. What's his name Schmidt is still going to do Celestial
Mechanics no matter what Computer department you put him in. That's the real
problem.

> We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a
> strong CS department.

Of course, because you are CS students. I am sure Nuclear Engineering students
believe the University requires a strong Nuclear Engineering dept. -- it
validates their choice and the huge investment of time and money. Back in the
day I would have though the same thing (that's why I stayed in McMicken, I
wanted to have CS on my diploma, looking back though, it didn't matter
really).

EDIT:

As a side note. I think this all started with Zimpher. She is gone now, but it
all started to go downhill with her. They built shops, stadiums, wasted money
on crap while the govt. was subsidizing the student loans, increased tuition
to astronomical proportions. While some colleges were printing tests in 7pt
font, double-sided, because they didn't have money for paper.

Look at this fucking shit:

<http://www.uc.edu/president/former_presidents/zimpher.html>

* $1.7 billion spent on stadiums and "Uptown Cincinnati".

* "Established UC's new Center of City designed to facilitate innovative and productive partnerships that blah blah blah..." WTF does that even mean? I guess it means we wasted all the money ...

Sorry, don't mind me I am getting old and jaded. You are doing a great thing
by organizing your fellow students. Hopefully someone will listen to you.

EDIT2:

Also, don't forget UC is a public school, so you could try writing a petition
to Columbus, it surely won't hurt. Especially if your parents are from Ohio
and have been paying taxes there for the longest time.

~~~
meaydinli
This might help answer some of the questions; Letter to UC President Williams
by founder of Computer Sci program Jerry Paul --
<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16466720/PresidentLetter.pdf>

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rdtsc
They have reshuffled the program a couple of times in the last 15 years or so.
At first CS was in the college of Arts and Sciences. There was also Computer
Engineering (CE) in the College Of Engineering.

Then CS dept. was moved to the College Of Engineering into a combined program
of "Electrical Computer Engineering and Computer Science". Then they split it
up again between Computer Engineering and Computer Science (but within the
same College of Engineering).

So now they have:

School of Computing Sciences & Informatics :

<http://www.cs.uc.edu>

and School of Electronics & Computing Systems :

<http://secs.ceas.uc.edu>

Now they want to eliminate the SCSI or merge it with SECS again...

WTF are they doing? If they spent as much effort on academics as they spent on
administrative reshuffling maybe they would get somewhere.

There are some good professors there but there quite a few just riding the
tenure wave, not caring much about teaching or researching. Overall it was a
decent school but nothing extraordinary. I learned a lot there, or should I
say, I taught myself a lot there, while waiting to get a piece of paper at the
end.

~~~
csisimportant
We respectfully question some of the choices made by the current dean. WTF is
a good start to express what we are thinking at this moment as well....

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mathgladiator
Some more background would be nice.

Seems like they are trying to consolidate Computer Science, Computer
Engineering into something new that may be more cheaper. It would also be a
way to re-staff by picking and choosing. Does this affect tenure?

~~~
csisimportant
We believe this is all political... as financially there is no proof shown.

When one of your organs is hurting and not performing well, you go and consult
a physician. A GOOD physician after careful examination and taking the vital
readings will suggest some treatment. Follow up appointments will be scheduled
to track the treatment’s progress. The last thing that will be considered by
our GOOD physician is a surgical RESECTION of the organ. Otherwise, most
people will end up with amputations.

Even assuming that the College of Engineering is not performing well, a couple
of actions that should be taken by our GOOD dean:

1\. Careful unbiased evaluation of the performance of each school before
blaming the CS & IT School only.

2\. Meeting with faculty and department’s head on regular basis to discuss
policies, expectations and how to improve the performance and production as a
team. According to the Dean, he met with 60% of faculty before making his
"judgement call".

Within UC we have many qualified smart researchers who can come with creative
solutions to the budget problem i.e. UC has the potential for self-
restoration. To be ranked as a prestigious College, CS is a must.

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meaydinli
Their twitter: <http://twitter.com/#!/csisimportant>

I'd appreciate it if you can share your thoughts on this matter.

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csisimportant
If possible, please work with us and help us gain momentum through the
csisimportant.blogspot.com, and twitter (@csisimportant and hashtag
#CSISIMPORTANT)

