
Ethereum: A number of hard forks turn out to be scams - timcc50
https://decryptmedia.com/4439/ethereum-hard-fork-scam
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duxup
I'm at the point where I just assume that if it is cryptocurrency, I assume
the likelihood of being a scam is close to 100%.

I followed cryptocurrency just casually out of curiosity for awhile but the
association between that and scams and crime and such are just so high I have
to wonder if I'm alone or if there really eventually is a perception problem.

Obviously you could argue "hey just money has that problem" maybe, but for
some reason I don't make that association.

~~~
ZainRiz
It's not that cryptocurrency is inherently a scam, but people have found no
good use case for it yet (other than scamming people).

It seems like that for any problem that you could conceivably use a
cryptocurrency to fix, we can easily find other solutions that are actually
much cheaper and much more efficient.

That's not to say there aren't any problems that cryptocurrencies are better
at, there could be, but so far no one has discovered them.

~~~
liamzebedee
Forgive my naivety, but I feel this is down to the earliness of the ecosystem
and infratructure. We are getting more and more validation of relatively
simple use cases (CryptoKitties) in combination with the current state of the
art in dapp tech (Metamask provider, Ethereum’s 10s block time for finality,
centralized exchanges and early decentralized exchange).

Once the blockchain tiramisu becomes less like a delicately constructed
interaction of tech and more like a modular/mature stack, perhaps the UX
barrier to entry will be low enough to reap the network effect.

~~~
TylerE
Bitcoin is over 10 years old. That’s almost half as old as what most people
would call the modern internet.

Stop using that “early days” cop out. It still has the same fundamental
issues.

~~~
jsloss
Right, 10 years in and bitcoin has proven it's value as a digital alternative
to gold.

Ethereum is 4 years old, and the vast majority of "tokens" even younger.
Crypto is very much still early. I don't mean this as a "cop out" but rather a
sober reality of how much further the tech has to go.

Would it not be more fair to compare crypto progress to that of the early
internet? It took most of a decade of development before the modern internet
was born, another decade before the bubble burst and a few more years before
pundits stopped calling it a fad, and recognized the business value.

We should all be skeptical of those who would over promise and under deliver
on new technology, but I can't imagine why we wouldn't assume an optimistic
stance towards it.

~~~
_tulpa
_proven it 's value as a digital alternative to gold_

I wouldn’t expect to be taken seriously after leading with that...

~~~
jsloss
You’re right I should have included a “so far”.

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momentmaker
A number of Bitcoin hard forks are scams as well and a few of them are in the
top 100 in terms of market cap.

The same thing could be said about airdrops.

~~~
SkidanovAlex
You don't need to go to top 100. Two Bitcoin forks that are scams are in Top
10 right now.

~~~
stale2002
Scam implies theft. Those forks aren't being used to steal money from people.

~~~
coralreef
What if one of the proponents of those projects is a guy who pretends to be
Satoshi Nakamoto? When we all know he isn't, and know and he can't prove it.
Should that affect the credibility of a project?

~~~
bausshf
I mean it's not really a scam, but it's definitely fraud.

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walrus01
I'm old enough to have been watching financial markets for about twenty years
now, and in my opinion a great percentage of the "cryptocurrency
entrepreneurs" running cryptocurrency scams aren't really doing anything
novel.

They just have new shiny tech bullshit to baffle people with. Twenty years ago
they would be running pump-and-dump penny stock scams with Canadian small-cap
mining stocks.

~~~
jonathankoren
Perhaps, but then the real innovation isn’t in the bits, but rather in
marketing to the “The apocalypse is nigh!” crowd, and other right wing
conspiracy theory aficionados, that were previously dominated by the gold coin
and dehydrated food grifters.

~~~
walrus01
Yeah, it is probably a lot easier to get right-wing conspiracy theory
enthusiasts to "invest" in something if you can convince them it's an
ideological soulmate to their libertarian utopia, than it is to get them to
open brokerage accounts and start buying stocks.

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aakilfernandes
My hunch is that the only people buying into these obvious scams is other
scammers. They look at it and think "hey, I bet a bunch of people will fall
for this. I'll buy some first.".

But maybe I'm too naive =/.

~~~
keketi
Or people who follow the greater fool theory:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory)

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g45y45
Hard Forks that end up spawning their own coins, (ie: continue to be mined
under old consensus rules) are 100% scams. None of these are legit: Ethereum
Classic, BCash, Bcash SV, MoneroV, Litecoin Cash. Never trust these -- at
worst you can lose your money due to tx replays, fraud, pump-n-dump, etc.

~~~
JeremyBanks
What is "BCash"? That doesn't seem to be the name of any existing crypto
project.

~~~
coralreef
Its Bitcoin Cash, but I think the 'bitcoin core' group doesn't like them using
the word 'Bitcoin' in their name, so it uses Bcash to refer/denigrate them,
etc...

~~~
hombre_fatal
On the other hand, the people who forked Bitcoin into "Bitcoin Cash" would
love for you to confuse them with Bitcoin.

It's like someone starting a company "Nike Shoes", getting mad when people
disambiguate them from Nike with "NShoes" ("hey, that's not my branding!"),
and insisting that people call Nike "Nike Core".

What makes cryptocurrency politics so uniquely toxic is that people will align
themselves with a faction because they have $5 invested. The barrier to
conflicts of interest are so low that it makes you wonder if anyone is
speaking earnestly on even the most trivial issues, like the person above who
asserted that Bcash didn't exist despite a quick google proving otherwise.
Though some people even do the same thing when you mention Golang. ;)

~~~
wmf
I find it telling that the original poster is willing to say "Ethereum
Classic" and "Litecoin Cash" but not "Bitcoin Cash". This pretty clearly
identifies their crypto-tribe.

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baxtr
That’s unfortunate. Many of my friends/colleague now say that Cryptos per se
are a scam

~~~
duxup
Heck I said I feel that way in my post.

I wonder at what point is a high percentage of scams just so many people just
don't want to chance it?

At least with banks or whatever we expect some safety net to some extent ...
the irreversible crypto... man that's rough.

~~~
Animats
Anonymous, remote, irreversible transactions - the scammer's dream. That's why
cryptocurrencies are such a scam magnet. The marks don't know who you are, the
marks are far away, and they can't get their money back.

~~~
duxup
And if you trust a company with holding your coins....no reason they can't
steal it just the same.

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sneakernets
Being scammed is just one of many sacrifices one must make in the name of
freedom, or, something.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to check my Dogecoin Wallet...

~~~
berbec
Hey DogeCoin has the full faith and credit of tens of thousands of Reddit
users behind it! That's way better than /bCoin.

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crankylinuxuser
s/number of hard forks turn out to be scams/Scam/

I've been saying that since their decision how to handle the DAO. The devs
have a special vip() function that effectively allows a hard fork if the devs
lose money. And that vip() is located on the updater on each ethereum miner's
machine.

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mgavaudan
A lot of people are saying that crypto is a scam because there are malicious
actors in the industry. This claim is as far fetched as saying emails are a
scam because Nigerian Princes want to wire you millions of dollars or that the
Internet is a scam because some websites contain viruses.

Don't let these small bumps distract from the greater picture and all the
amazing work the developers at Ethereum, Bitcoin etc are doing.

~~~
ex3ndr
I can close a deal via email, exchange love letters with my fiance and this
will be probably easiest way to do. What can i do with bitcoin or ethereum? I
am following cryptocurrencies since second year of bitcoin and still can't see
real world applications that can't be solved in more predictive way. For
example, once some virus stolen my bitcoins and how i can get them back?

~~~
hopler
You can buy things that are illegal in your jurisdiction.

Remember that the point if cryptocurrency is to enable finance in the absence
of good government. It's useless if you like your government.

~~~
root_axis
> _Remember that the point if cryptocurrency_

Nobody knows what the "point" of cryptocurrency is, and every enthusiast has a
different opinion on that topic.

~~~
DoctorOetker
Yeah, that's exactly what the Church said about atheists.

"as an atheist what is the meaning of life? What is then the meaning of
society? What is the meaning of ... ? "

It would be a lot simpler if we all simply served the commercial bankers, or
perhaps the central bank or ... because then we wouldn't have to carry "the
burden of having to ponder the meaning of our lives"

edit: slightly modified

~~~
root_axis
That's a very strange analogy. Honestly I'm not really sure what you're trying
to say but your sarcastic quip about serving central bakers tells me all I
need to know.

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iblaine
Crypt has too many opportunists. It really is tragic because the technology is
interesting. I do not see it the problem being fixed.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Or perhaps crypto has too many naive amateur opportunists, who can't compete -
in either effectiveness or toxicity - with the established financial
industries.

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arisAlexis
why are people surprised in 2019 about online scams and what's different here?

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dooglius
The biggest and most successful hard fork scam was the one moving from what is
now called Etherium Classic to what is now called Etherium.

