
Amazon is selling stolen art, fake products and is infringing copyrights - sebkomianos
https://www.facebook.com/AmazonUK/posts/2822462551134523?comment_id=2835971836450261&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%2348%22%7D
======
otterley
(I work for Amazon, but not in the retail division. Opinions are mine and not
of the company. I'm also an attorney, but this is not legal advice.)

There is a channel in pretty much every company, large or small, for reporting
copyright violations and other legal complaints. That channel is the legal
department (in the US, the DMCA contact point), not the customer service
department. If you want a company to actually take action, you have to get the
right people involved.

In Amazon's case, it's right here:
[https://www.amazon.com/report/infringement](https://www.amazon.com/report/infringement)

If you complain to the wrong people, expect a suboptimal response. They're not
trained to help in these cases, and don't always have the authority to short-
circuit the bureaucratic process like the legal department does.

~~~
CamelCaseName
As the article/message chain clearly shows, the author did submit an
infringement report to that link. In fact, so have I.

As the author posted a screenshot of, you get an email reply after some time
saying something to the effect of "We have reviewed and removed the content"

...except, nothing was removed. The infringing content is still there. The
exact same thing happened to me. Same exact email.

Edit, here's my email from Amazon:
[https://i.imgur.com/mzXycfk.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mzXycfk.jpg) \-- nothing
was actually removed.

~~~
otterley
I looked at the thread and it appears that the product ID (ASIN) that was the
subject of the original takedown request was not the same as the ASIN of the
the subsequent complaint. If it appears on multiple catalog pages, or a
subsequent violation is alleged, each ASIN must be reported.

Unfortunately this is the downside of being an IP rights holder - policing is
a PITA. (Amazon, do their credit, does offer a brand registry, but that
protects against trademark infringement, not copyright infringement.)

In your case, assuming they did not do exactly what they said they would do
(remove the infringing content from the specific listing page referred to by
the ASIN), I'd have your attorney send a takedown notice to the following
address:

    
    
      Copyright Agent
      Amazon Legal Department
      P.O. Box 81226
      Seattle, WA  98108
    

If your content is on multiple product listings, you'll need to identify each
ASIN.

~~~
zepolen
So nothing stops a copyright infringer re-uploading the content with a new
ASIN? I think only a hefty fine for both the infringer _and_ Amazon would make
them think twice about doing it again.

~~~
otterley
The DMCA expressly gives entities that publish user-generated content a “safe
harbor” exemption from such liability if they handle authorized takedown
requests in a reasonable amount of time.

~~~
tsevis
Exactly! So Amazon makes money from our work. And they even makes us lose time
with reporting items that simply change numbers. What a shame!

~~~
mimi89999
Do you really want platforms to decide what can be put and what can't be? How
should they decide that an article is IP infringement and what isn't?

------
valbaca
Here's the product page in question: [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orlco-
Paintings-Decoration-Collecti...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orlco-Paintings-
Decoration-Collections-16x16inch/dp/B07KJ8XJL5)

You can clearly see the artist's signature cut-off in the bottom left of the
image. Here it is on the artist's website as well:

[https://tsevis.com/editorial-
illustration-2016-2017?fbclid=I...](https://tsevis.com/editorial-
illustration-2016-2017?fbclid=IwAR2fg_-8P7FXh3SOY9sgXGeOS4qOShf57DZLjAXpmA93JXyOcwdN3O2F0Rk)

~~~
taobility
I would say those posters are created by some software, definitely not that
person.

~~~
freyir
Many artists use technology to create art. That doesn't mean they're not
responsible for creating it, or that it's not art, or that others should
remove the artist's name.

------
partiallypro
I've said it several times...but counterfeit items on Amazon is a big big
problem. I've gotten counterfeit goods there in the past and just today I
almost bought 2 items; saw Amazon had the cheapest price...then I looked at
the reviews. It was very clear people were getting counterfeit goods, some
with the UPC I was going to buy actually catching fire (I've had several of
this brand and I find this difficult to believe happening a couple of times in
the same review thread.) So anyhow, I'm going to Best Buy tomorrow to buy both
the things I was going to buy. Amazon is slowly losing my business.

~~~
sytelus
There is a HUGE market in China for counterfeit products. In China, even
Mercedes-Benz you buy _might_ be entirely counterfeit! Until recent years,
these fake products didn't leave China to come to US shores. Now these
merchants are simply creating web of LLCs and have Amazon ship it off their
crap on Prime. At least dozen product categories were reported as counterfeits
in various reviews like Duracells, headlamp, bulbs, USB cables, board games,
GoPro like cameras, razor blades etc. I wish Amazon at least made it
compulsory to disclose "Made in XYZ" in product description (isn't that a law
anyway?).

~~~
bootlooped
I don't think somebody selling counterfeit products on Amazon is going to have
any ethical qualms about lying about the origin country.

------
edoo
They also allow illegal infringement on sellers. I knew a family that ran an
Amazon import business and they bought an entire batch of surplus tennis shoes
directly from a company in the primary supply chain of the shoe company. All
on the up and up. The shoe company filed a complaint with Amazon that they
were not authorized to sell their shoes and Amazon closed down the related
listings. That was a serious restraint of trade and Amazon could likely be
sued to the moon but they just moved on. I really wish they would have pursued
the lawsuit against Amazon.

~~~
traek
What did Amazon do here that was wrong? It sounds like these people bought
illegitimate “ghost shift” shoes from a factory and the brand owner correctly
shut them down.

~~~
edoo
If you obtain a product legitimately you are allowed to sell it. This wasn't a
counterfeit product nor was it claimed to be. Just because a company has a
policy of only selling to authorized retailers does not allow them to restrain
the trade of their merchandise by legal owners. It would have been a huge
lawsuit.

~~~
traek
Yes but ghost shift goods are counterfeits unless they are free of any logos
and other intellectual property. The first sale doctrine doesn’t apply because
it was never purchased from the IP owner at any point in the line.

If I have a factory in Bangladesh print some t-shirts with the Nike logo on
them, I wouldn’t be able to sell them (at least in the US) because I didn’t
get permission from Nike, which owns the rights to their logo. It’s the same
thing here. It doesn’t matter if the factory happens to also produce
legitimate Nike t-shirts.

~~~
edoo
I believe you are trying to classify what they bought as something it isn't
(ghost shift goods). They legitimately bought the surplus from an authorized
retailer.

If you go buy a bunch of Nike shirts from a Nike store they cannot stop you
from selling them on eBay or Amazon (at least legally). At best the shoe
company could have sued their authorized retailers for the bulk sale if it
violated a contract.

Amazon happily complied with an illegal request to restrain trade causing
damages to a small company. The lawsuit would have been huge.

~~~
traek
That's true, I assumed from your original comment where you said "directly
from a company in the primary supply chain of the shoe company" that the shoes
were from further up the supply chain, like a factory, rather than further
down. My mistake.

Even if the product were from an authorized retailer, I don't see how the shoe
company's request to Amazon was illegal. Restraint of trade means that
contracts restricting commerce are in some cases unenforceable. It doesn't
mean that Amazon is compelled to do business with the reseller if they would
rather prioritize their relationship with the shoe company.

~~~
edoo
If Amazon had terminated their listings without any cause or even because of
competition agreements it probably would have been legal. Since it was in
direct compliance with an illegal demand and Amazon stated as such they
probably doomed themselves. Judges tend to look very poorly on large companies
ramrodding the small guys. The small business wasn't prepared to spend $50k+
just initiating the process and went on with their business model.

------
bb88
In 2018, things are truly great for large copyright owners. But for small
copyright owners, it sucks.

------
ottonomy
It's pretty much impossible for Amazon to tell whether an item is a licensed
use of a copyrighted creative work or not. It's perfectly legal to resell work
that was legally bought with no additional permission from the creator, for
instance. (It is pretty clear from a human analysis here that the seller is
infringing copyrights by making prints of digital images found online, but it
would be pretty much impossible to create some sort of filter that would block
these products from being offered on the platform).

From the thread, it looked like the support representatives engaged with the
person complaining on Facebook, reported some items had been removed in the
past based on takedown requests. That's pretty responsive, all in all. Maybe
the artist could enlist some additional help discovering and helping him and
other affected artists report for takedown the items that this seller is
offering so they'd eventually . Or they could gather some funds and sue
Amazon.

~~~
mv4
Yes, it may be impossible to create a filter to detect new (previously unseen)
copyrighted products on the platform. However, once a copyrighted product has
been through a dispute and the owner has been established by Amazon - it's
completely feasible to programmatically detect and flag this product once it
re-appears under other accounts. It would actually be quite easy, given
Amazon's technology expertise.

From reviewing the thread the artist posted, it appears that's why he's
frustrated - that fakes keep re-appearing, and Amazon is asking him to jump
through hoops again, even though his authorship had been established.

So, no - I don't feel it's reasonable to ask the author to enlist people to
help him police the marketplace, Amazon can easily solve this problem (future
infringement) with technology.

~~~
Spivak
1\. Write a book and sell it on Amazon.

2\. Some counterfeiter creates a listing with an infringing copy of the book.

3\. DMCA request is filed and the listing is taken down and the account is
banned.

4\. Someone else buys a legitimate copy of my book and creates a listing for
it on Amazon.

What should Amazon do?

~~~
mv4
Selling a used book? Different scenario. Same product (ISBN), nothing for
Amazon to do.

------
eseehausen
Looks like the person violating the copyright just reuploaded under a new ID
after the original takedown, which is why the artist is still seeing his work
up there.

------
freyir
Everyone at Amazon is supposed to be committed to Amazon's Leadership
Principles. Each new hire is supposed to learn them and live by them. The very
first principle is:

 _Customer Obsession: Leaders start with the customer and work backwards. They
work vigorously to earn and keep customer trust. Although leaders pay
attention to competitors, they obsess over customers._

What a joke.

~~~
marcinzm
Is it a joke?

Does the average customer care more about saving $10 or protecting someone's
copyright? I'd argue given the how prevalent copyright infringement by people
has been that they'd rather save $10. So Amazon is doing exactly what
customers want which is cheap goods irrespective of everything else.

~~~
sytelus
It's not about copyright infringement. The problem is that counterfeits are
typically sold at same price and more often than not experience is severely
degraded. I personally have lost several hundreds of dollars worth of gadgets
due to counterfeit duracells. Most importantly customer is being lied about
what they are actually sold.

~~~
marcinzm
The linked story is mainly about copyright infringement of artists and that is
what I responded regarding.

You're talking mainly about trademark infringement and I agree that Amazon is
screwing over their customers regarding it. Of course, their end game is
pretty clear in that area. Buy "AmazonBasics" products and you're certain
they're legitimate.

------
tokyodude
Only tangentially related but type in any product category like say "socks".
Near the top right set Sort By: to "Price High to Low"

Result: $14000 pair of socks

$9000 tube of toothpaste

$3800 package of rubber bands

$1000 usb-c cable

$45000 water bottle.

Curious why Amazon can't fix this. It makes them look like they have zero
control, zero trustworthiness, a scam site. Note I don't normally choose to
sort that way but those items with those prices show up in my regular searches
quite often

~~~
cwilkes
Those $14k socks could be a money laundering operation as well. Happens on
AirBnB, course it might be easier on there as who knows what the real price us
of a one if a kind house vs a pair of socks.

------
retrobox
I've had fake headphones (more than once) and fake software. I contacted
customer services and they didn't even seem to understand why I was trying to
point out all the fake products listed on the site. Needless to say, they are
all still there and no action was taken.

Take a quick search for headphones by "Apple", I doubt any of these are
genuinely Apple:
[https://smile.amazon.co.uk/s/s/ref=sr_nr_p_89_0?fst=as%3Aoff...](https://smile.amazon.co.uk/s/s/ref=sr_nr_p_89_0?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AApple+EarPods%2Cp_89%3AApple&keywords=Apple+EarPods&ie=UTF8&qid=1546083082&rnid=1632651031)

The problem is it's more profitable not to care about these problems.

------
skilled
How many people got involved in that conversation? At least 3 different
support people. And neither had a direct response to the guy. This corporate
jargon is just painful to read and companies like Amazon should know better.

------
herbst
In switzerland (which is outside of amazon's prime and shipping area) amazon
is nothing else than a super expensive version of AliExpress where everybody
tries to hide that they are in fact from China.

~~~
RileyJames
What is the shipping experience from aliexpress like?

~~~
ggcdn
I've ordered a couple of things from AliExpress to Canada, the cheapest
shipping options take a long time... I think I waited 2 months for a pack of
rare earth magnets once. There are FedEx, etc options available but sometimes
they are more expensive than the items themselves.

------
brian_herman__
I don’t any content on this post just a link to Facebook?

~~~
CamelCaseName
Try this: [https://imgur.com/a/L1gFAqy](https://imgur.com/a/L1gFAqy)

~~~
brian_herman
Thanks!@

------
kerng
Once I ordered a painting and it never arrived. Amazon didn't give me back my
money as seller claims it was delivered. Seller never responded to an inquiry
from my side. Since then I'm not ordering much from Amazon anymore - there is
no customer service and they collaborate with and support thiefs.

~~~
colejohnson66
Did you try a chargeback?

