
Chinese smiths forge a large flange on the street [video] - shawndumas
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=sXmKHGqfFlc
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elsjaako
This appears to be a youtube channel that reposts other videos to get the ad
revenue.

As far as I can tell this is the original:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68NXH4Nmbvk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68NXH4Nmbvk)

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kqr2
Yes it would be great if the mods could replace link.

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11thEarlOfMar
Adding to my 'collection' of mesmerizing manual labor:

Building a tile-roofed hut by hand:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE&list=PLGnWLXjIDn...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE&list=PLGnWLXjIDnpBR4xqf3FO-
xFFwE-ucq4Fj&index=2)

Building a brick vaulted ceiling:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ)

The cinder block wall:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VGjA66RSm0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VGjA66RSm0)

~~~
geon
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/)

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fspeech
The key take-away for me after watching this video is to not prematurely jump
to conclusions. I stopped right after the team photo praising the teamwork
first time around. While impressed by the teamwork and skills of manual labor,
I was unimpressed by the roughness of the forged product. Only after reading
some of the comments here did I realize that was not the end of the story.
More stills at the end of the video show that the end product after further
milling is indeed high quality to tight spec.

I feel like this experience of making a premature judgement may have some
relevance to understanding China stories in general. The crudeness of some of
the implements fit with my pre-conceived bias that the product was not going
to be high quality, even though the skills of the labor involved should have
alerted me that there should be sufficient value-add to justify the investment
in said skills. I even thought this was some weird craftsmanship demo.

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ChuckMcM
Interesting sets of comments here and on the various videos.

"hammer forging" is an old an well understood technique, its basically taking
a blacksmith's workflow and scaling it up with hydraulics and mechanical lift
assist :-). That said, once the initial shape is good, they chuck it up in a
pretty good sized lathe to bring it into final tolerance. This saves a lot of
wasted steel since you don't spend tool time cutting away a ton or more of
excess material.

Forging also makes the steel harder but a bit more less tough (sometimes a
part will be annealed in a large oven after forging to release stresses).

While I'm sure these guys all know a guy who is missing a hand or foot or died
while doing this, all of the ironworkers I've met and talked with seemed to
really enjoy their work. My guess is that its cathartic pounding some really
amazing material into shape. A blacksmith at Plumas Eureka state park remarked
that the amazing thing about the blacksmiths of the 1890's when the mine was
operating was that their handy work was around for all to see and admire some
125 years later, and it still serves its intended purpose. Not something I can
say about software I've written or hardware I've designed.

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rabboRubble
Mesmerizing... sent this to my metal working Dad and he was harsh in his
criticism:

\- complete lack of safety gear for the workers, especially against hearing
loss

\- open coke burning contributing to air pollution

\- no quality control with obvious cold working of the metal

\- no noise or pollution abatement for the neighbors

There were more criticisms, but he was extremely dubious about the claim that
the final product met US production standards.

~~~
beachstartup
this is almost certainly illegal, but they paid someone to look the other way,
because it's cheaper, and faster (and hence more dangerous/problematic) to do
it this way.

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kurthr
I agree with the comment as far as it goes... but it's only cheaper and
faster, if you need a relatively small number of these parts. If you can
standardize the forged part (before mill/lathe), then it's almost certainly
cheaper, faster (per part), and more repeatable/efficient to build an
automated forge to do it.

That's even ignoring legality or safety.

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amiramir
I love the teamwork and mutual understanding. I'd have a hard time making a
circular object like that out of clay, yet these guys collaborate to make this
massive thing with very little drama (or explicit communication). As a
software person I love me a bit of metal bashing :-)

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aaron-lebo
It's funny, things like this remind me how much we overrate certain kinds of
expertise and underrate others.

Those smiths will probably make a fraction of what the average software
developer will and hopefully they won't die an early death due to some kind of
industrial accident. This video might literally be the only mark that one of
them leaves on history.

The intelligence and skill it takes to do it though is astounding. These guys
might not be even able to read (this is not an assumption, just a
possibility), but they can do this as well as anyone on the planet. It's a
real monument to human ingenuity.

Meanwhile, his well-educated counterpart in the West can't stop getting job
offers because they've figured out how to twiddle some bits. If they're lucky,
they might even be able to make something worth hundreds of thousands, or
millions, or even billions, and then people will assume that they know what
they are doing and that their opinions matter.

But at the end of the day...there's very little difference between them. We're
just really smart creatures.

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RodericDay
I think we will eventually abandon a lot of the "wisdom" behind supply &
demand.

~~~
vram22
Yes, good point. It considers only one aspect of things.

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krona
Very cool (and hot.)

Here is a Swedish version:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEF2erBBVZ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEF2erBBVZ4)
(first 3 minutes)

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lkajsd
This looks significantly safer therefore less impressive. Stupid i know but
it's true.

~~~
jordanb
Not only safer but with a vastly superior final product.

Those flanges being made with the Chinese hammer are extremely crude. You can
see the roughness of the surface in the final shot. Welding them onto the end
of the pipe will require lots and lots of filler, and the mating surface will
require a very thick gasket.

Also LOL at the guy checking for diameter and roundness by measuring in two
different spots with a tape measure.

~~~
trevyn
Are you saying it doesn't get machined down on all surfaces? I can imagine
there being less waste and higher yield on the more controlled process, but
could you explain how the final product is any different?

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jordanb
Well if they do machine it then they're going to take off the hardened surface
put on by forging. Maybe that doesn't matter for a pipe flange.

But that would also take a gigantic lathe, given the backyard nature of their
forging setup I'd be interested to see how they do that.

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tensor
They show the machining in stills at the end of the video. The also show that
it meets the specs with high precision.

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maxerickson
/on the street/using a giant permanently installed industrial hammer/

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markbnj
Ha yeah obviously the work yard of a foundry or metal shop of some kind. Still
a damn impressive display of drop forging.

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vram22
Why is it impressive (as a person who doesn't know anything about such stuff)?
the coordination, etc.?

Edit: The only kind of forging and smith work I've ever seen (live) is of
Indian itinerant blacksmiths in villages (like at fairs) doing their stuff.
Used to sometimes get iron garden tools made by them.

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markbnj
Well that's sort of like asking me what is good about pizza, or why I like a
certain song, but anyway... I find it impressive that using only a couple of
forklifts and a drop hammer they were able to forge a part of that size and
shape.

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vram22
Well that's exactly it :) I know something about pizzas and songs - so if
either of them was the topic I probably wouldn't have asked why it was
impressive. But knew nothing about forging. Anyway, got it now, thanks. And I
agree it is impressive.

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agentgt
This reminds me of the show "How It's Made" which I watch religiously. One
take away I always get from the show is how much is automated and how much
isn't. Metal work always seems to requires a tremendous amount of skill (e.g.
one of the episodes was making shovels and spades and an apprenticeship
requires like a year of training). Even metal casting requires skill because
of the finishing (sanding + polishing) required.

Regardless I highly recommend the show if you like watching things like this.

(funny side story about me watching the show: my wife hates the show and told
me to change the channel because she said it is like "watching paint dry"...
sure enough next scene paint was being dried).

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dmreedy
They way they maneuvered those forklifts in the beginning almost reminded me
of watching ants dragging a large bit of scavenge back to the colony, or any
sort of insect with limited manipulation affordances (mandibles, maybe
forelegs). I wonder how long it takes the brain to learn to translate to
limited output. I remember being utterly baffled and clumsy my first time
playing a twin stick first person shooter. Is the process generalizable to any
sort of 'get my output devices to do my intention' process (i.e., does the
same process wire you to learn to play a musical instrument, or type)?

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jstanley
To everyone complaining that this looks unsafe and rough: yes, it's not as
safe as it could be, and yes the forging is not as perfect as it could be
(although it gets machined later anyway).

But this is a bunch of guys working together and solving a problem, despite
not having the tooling or resources they might like. This is great.

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IshKebab
Wish they'd shown some video of the turning. That lathe is impressive!

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walshemj
That's not in the "street" its a steel plant with an out door drop hammer.

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runeks
Here's a video of the same process, but from a country where firms have an
easier time accumulating capital:
[https://youtu.be/tEF2erBBVZ4](https://youtu.be/tEF2erBBVZ4)

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maxmax
Love the open forge (probably coal-fired) in the background. In other news:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/beijing-
smog-p...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/beijing-smog-
pollution-red-alert-declared-in-china-capital-and-21-other-cities)

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mtw
What are these pieces used for? They seem very rough

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cannonpr
Have a look at the end of the video, you will see it's finishing process in
snapshots to engineering specs. The main process you are seeing is only the
initial forging before you use higher accuracy machinery for the final
processing.

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falcolas
And with a total time less than it would take to machine the same piece out of
an appropriately sized block of solid steel.

Forging is frequently used to get to an approximate shape, even in things as
simple as forks.

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agumonkey
I was wondering why not cast it to a ring mold then finalize the shape ?

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CPLX
Were that to have been cast it would have had completely different
metallurgical properties.

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drtse4
Extremely unsafe, it's quite easy to spot moments where this video could have
had a gruesome conclusion, but I'm glad too see that at least someone gave
them those plastic masks to provide the illusion of safety to those who wear
them. And health care in Cina, I'm guessing that's top notch.

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HillaryBriss
the true genius isn't shown in this video

the true genius occurred when a manager and some workers first figured out how
to take that hunk of metal, a forklift, some guys with metal sticks and that
towering smashee-thingee out back and produce those lovely flanges for about
five dollars and ninety cents worth of labor

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inimino
Around the ten minute mark when the forklift puts the piece back in the
furnace you can see off to the side someone throws water on the ground in
front of the furnace so as not to melt the forklift's tires. Gives some idea
of the temperatures involved and working conditions.

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nullnilvoid
This is amazing engineering. Great teamwork for these guys. They seem well-
trained and know what they are doing. My first thought is this is very
dangerous. Not much safety measures. What if the hammer drops on someone's
head?

~~~
beachstartup
i suspect the danger is if they don't position the piece correctly, the hammer
drops on it, and something goes flying or shatters and mauls someone.

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Chos89
I know it's probably a custom order, but don't they have a cast which is more
similar to the end product that they can use, saving them time by skipping a
few steps?

~~~
inimino
Forging has benefits over casting in cost and in the properties of the
finished product.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging)

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Gravityloss
With a few exoskeleton suits it would be possible to make such custom forged
pieces quite fast.

The forklift is a little bit cumbersome, while the manual workers don't have
enough strength.

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falcolas
Honestly, I didn't see a lot of wasted time in that - the individual moves
were happening as quickly as the hammer could go up and come back down; only
the gross moves to change out tools or go back to the forge seemed less than
optimal.

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andyidsinga
hot damn!

I can't help but say, aside from being awesome, it reminds me of the hydraulic
press channel -
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcMDMoNu66_1Hwi5-MeiQgw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcMDMoNu66_1Hwi5-MeiQgw)

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agumonkey
Mad Max meets Conan.

