
YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn - katm
https://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-at-columbia-harvard-mit-stanford-upenn/
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ilamont
Does YC ever visit non-top-tier schools?

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John23832
I was just going to ask this.

Silicon valley would be better served (and better serve others) when they stop
giving hand service to the same schools they they went to and the people who
think and act exactly like them.

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morgante
Top schools attract a disproportionate of intelligent young people. Ignoring
that would be stupid.

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pitt1980
Columbia has 8,410 undergraduates

University of Illinois has 32,878 undergraduates

the 75% SAT score for the college of engineering at University of Illinois was
1530 (no writing, so out of 1600)

[https://admissions.illinois.edu/Apply/Freshman/profile](https://admissions.illinois.edu/Apply/Freshman/profile)

the 75% SAT score at Columbia was 2330 (including writing so 2330 * 2/3 =
1553.33333333

[https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/classprofile/2019](https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/classprofile/2019)

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the top 25% of a place like university of Illinois (and a lot of other big
state schools like it), probably represents a critical mass of intelligent
young people that would be pretty competitive with ivy league schools

\---------- \----------

also, while ivy league school give out generous amounts of aid, Illinois
students aren't filtered by exactly how generous a discount the financial aid
office wants to give on at 55k a year tuition (I suspect the top 25% does
pretty well scholarship money wise at Illinois too)

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morgante
> University of Illinois has 32,878 undergraduates

That's a fair point. It'd be interesting if YC could do some sort of data
analysis on attendance for their events at a big state school vs. an elite
school.

> Illinois students aren't filtered by exactly how generous a discount the
> financial aid office

Most elite universities are need-blind.

Spreading these myths does a disservice to smart, poor kids. Thinking they
can't possibly get in, or afford it if they do, dissuades many of the
underrepresented students from applying. That's part of why I push back so
hard when people try to spread bullshit or the notion that you can only go to
Harvard if you're rich.

> I suspect the top 25% does pretty well scholarship money wise at Illinois
> too

I can tell you that elite universities were a lot more generous with
scholarships for me (smart, poor kid) than any lower tier schools.

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xapata
> need-blind

Only goes so far. They don't offer aid to students wishing to take SAT prep
courses. Admissions criteria include vague things like oddball
extracurriculars. It's an interesting coincidence that wealthy people tend to
engage in the same activities that top schools consider signals of a "well-
rounded" applicant.

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morgante
Oh please. You can do plenty of SAT prep at the library. My parents certainly
couldn't afford an SAT prep course for me. The effect of such courses is
vastly overblown—they mostly just sit you down with the same books you can get
for free at the library (or for $20 on Amazon).

There are plenty of "oddball" extracurriculars that rural poor students can
engage in. My admissions essay was literally about hiking with an ancient
backpack covered in duct tape.

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xapata
Your personal experience is contradicted by some systematic studies.
Unfortunately I don't have the citations nearby, but I'm sure if you search
Google Scholar you'll find that you are an unusual person.

~~~
sn9
I think you're overestimating the extent that SAT prep courses play in college
admissions compared to, say, personal tutors or involved parents who have
knowledge about the particular rituals needed to get into good schools.

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mmanulis
Is there a way to request that a school be considered for a visit? I'm sure
you'll get a ton of requests, but with ~ 2,500 4-year schools, it would be a
"voting" exercise.

It, should, give YC a more diverse exposure as well?

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anotherarray
What about the other 99% of talented students that couldn't afford these
schools?

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morgante
These schools are actually some of the most affordable in the country due to
their extremely generous financial aid. Poor families pay nothing and even
middle class families have minimal contributions. (For example, all of the
elite universities I was accepted to cost _less_ than my state school would
have.)

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plandis
Now if only poor people could get educational equality in the 13 years prior
to college :-/

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morgante
Eh, it's hardly impossible. My parents have qualified for food stamps at times
yet I still had a pretty decent education.

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paulsmith34
Being the exception doesn't exclude the fact that poor kids are at
disadvantage of gaining admissions to Ivies. A student from Phillips Exeter
Academy has a much higher chance of being accepted vs a very smart but poor
kid from a rural America high school.

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nitrogen
As an example of this comment's point, one of the problems where I grew up is
that when you told the guidance counselor you wanted to go to MIT she said,
basically, don't bother.

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morgante
She probably said that because of all the people pushing the narrative that
elite schools are only for rich kids. Spreading this myth dissuades thousands
of qualified students from applying to top schools where they would get a
great education for free.

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davidf18
Kat Manalac, (Kate), I tried to sign up for Columbia (alum here in NYC) and it
said all sold out. Other universities have spots. I'm on Columbia Entrepreneur
email list and didn't see notification of the event.

(Tried to pm katm but could not).

Columbia University closed for snowstorm today.

Any way I can sign up?

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zhiyuan
The Penn link links to MIT, bug or feature?

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katm
Hah, thanks for catching. Fixed.

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qwrusz
Wall Street is also known for visiting and doing on-campus recruiting at only
a very small list of target schools. Right or wrong every year we pick which
schools to give this extra attention to and every year we debate if we are
doing this right and if we should target schools at all.

Entirely anecdotal, maybe obvious to some, but here's what I have experienced
(I'll focus on STEM students):

 _TL; DR I have had to visit and do on-campus recruiting. The top of top
talented, skilled, smart student could be at any school. Every school has dumb
as fuck kids too. But there is higher % chance the valedictorian at Stanford
is smarter than the valedictorian at San Jose State. But who cares, when a
cream of the crop student ends up at non-target school for whatever, they know
how to work with those circumstances and get to where they want to go. I think
if you know how to "disrupt" or "hack" or whatever stupid word we are using
these days, it is easier to stand out as applicant from a no-name school. Good
luck_

1\. The practical stuff: The "budget" of time and people and money to do
recruiting and campus outreach is not unlimited. There are only so many hours
in a day, you can't visit every school and meet every kid.

2\. School visits are worth doing, for the students to learn about a company
and for a company to get to know a few of the students better. Companies that
do visit schools can attract more applicants and higher quality applicants.

3\. The school someone went to tells you _ZERO_ about how talented or skilled
that individual is as an engineer or potential founder or employee. Zero. The
best person for a job or to fund could have studied at Stanford or San Jose
State or Joe Bummwarts University. There are plenty of kids at no-name schools
that crush the skills of kids at top-ranked schools. (Also the whole "but the
department's reputation is good" doesn't matter nor do grades tell you very
much either - I don't even care if someone has a degree to be honest - but
that's another story).

4\. If a top company or VC or Grad school is looking for those best of the
best young people; they often seem to be the type of student that can self-
teach and have done so. They are frequently miles ahead of their classmates at
their school and any school in terms of knowledge. They know things the
schools don't even teach.

5\. Unfortunately where someone went to school still matters for several
reasons. I'm sorry if this offends. There are many reasons your schools makes
a difference. I won't go into things like PR pedigree and friendships and
alumni networks. And just to be clear there are a shitload of dumb people at
every school, tons and tons of dumb people at the top ranked-schools. Spot
them a mile away. _But: when you are looking for the one or two or three
students who are miles ahead of other people their same age, the % chance that
person is going to be at a top-ranked school is slightly higher. i.e. if you
are looking for the smartest kid in the sandbox, the odds the valedictorian at
Stanford is smarter than the valedictorian at San Jose State is higher on
average, not guarantee, but enough to say it 's more likely._

6\. Lastly, I'll just say in my experience when legit talented students ends
up at a non-target school for whatever reason (family, cost, bad luck,
whatever) they are mature and they know why they are there and they know what
it means and they know what they need to do to succeed at their goal under
these circumstances - these are not the students you see complaining about
school recruiting being unfair. It's the idiots and the average people who
complain the loudest about this :( Those talented students at no-name school
are aware of how the world works and that life's not fair. They know how much
better they are than their peers and they know the school they went to will
not matter. They also know they will have to take a couple different steps to
get where they want to go vs. target-schools kids. (it's a known secret it's
actually much easier for a no-name school students to stand out). They seem to
know what to do: they just keep quiet about it, they network with the people
who get it and they find the other doors. Sorry. Look around. Students from
no-name non-target schools get top jobs right out of school and they get
funded and they get into a top grad schools all the time, every year. If you
don't understand how they did what they did, that's the point. Seriously, no
offense some people are more skilled and talented than others. But if you are
so smart and happened to have gone to a crap school, but want to get in
somewhere difficult, then figure it out, many others have before you. If you
feel you need someone to come visit your school to get something you are
missing the point of how this works. Good luck YC SUMMA CLASS

