
Don’t Hire Anyone Over 30: Ageism in Silicon Valley - majc2
http://anewdomain.net/2014/12/11/dont-hire-anyone-30-ageism-silicon-valley/
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jqm
I'm 43.

This article hit a very strong point. I remember being told point blank at 32
(by a boomer company owner) that even though I was doing the job and had the
capabilities, I simply wasn't old enough to be high level management yet. So a
short time later I offered my resignation, and he responded by trying to give
me a substantial share of the company with the option to buy out the rest over
the next decade.....

Hilarious.

At any rate, I'm not threatened by companies that won't hire people my age.
I've seen plenty of people my age that have grown fat and grey and are burnt
out and lazy with the spark gone out of their eyes. But I've also seen enough
to know that time keeps marching on, and the foolish and trivial is shaken out
before very long. Many of these types of companies won't be around long enough
for the law to take action. Those that do last will find they are soon enough
full of... fat grey middle aged people protecting their jobs and going to
meetings....

I happen to agree that young people are on average smarter. (As in mentally
faster). But if one is exceptionally mentally fast to begin with, another
person does not automatically become mentally faster by virtue of youth alone.
And as for bad judgement and a misunderstanding of how the world works....
well, that's a subject for another post...

~~~
IndianAstronaut
I work with a 62 year old that puts me and everyone around him to shame. He is
very productive in the company, readily picks up new technologies, is an open
source contributor, and also manages to bike to work. Age doesn't have to
equal stagnation.

------
hawkice
The reason age discrimination isn't included in the diversity mea culpas is
because they have no plan to change. The economics of manipulating young
professionals is too compelling to be changed by (mere) outrage.

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mkempe
Here is Sam Altman on Twitter, in April 2014, during a YC interview period:
"it's a little creepy when someone has a 35 year old looking face and 70 year
old looking hands" [1]

[1]
[https://twitter.com/sama/status/460215704302534657](https://twitter.com/sama/status/460215704302534657)

------
wcummings
>The head of the most prominent start-up incubator told The New York Times
that most venture capitalists in the Valley won’t take a pitch from anyone
over 32.

I have a really hard time taking this seriously

~~~
majc2
I went back and looked and you're right, that paraphrasing doesn't appear in
the NY times article that they're using as a source.

Also, the gawker article used as the source for the Buzz feed comments doesn't
read as being about age at all.

Given the two strikes at the first two things I've looked at it just calls
into credibility the whole article - which is a shame, as there probably a
good conversation about age to be had.

~~~
mkempe
The original NYT quote is pretty easy to find. May 2013, Paul Graham: "The
cutoff in investors’ heads is 32." [1]

Still in denial mode?

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/magazine/y-combinator-
sili...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/magazine/y-combinator-silicon-
valleys-start-up-machine.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)

~~~
majc2
Well thats not what they linked to though is it.

Suggesting I'm in denial mode is unhelpful - as I've already said there is a
good conversation about age to be had.

~~~
mkempe
It's just factual. You're both denigrating the value of the linked article
based on not knowing about Paul Graham's NYT quote.

Even if there were no such specific, personally identifiable quote -- should
we deny that there are v.high-level players in SV who indulge in and
(apparently) support ageism?

------
joshbaptiste
In this day and age when a person can create value from their bedroom
developing applications (especially mobile), who cares about not being hired
to build someone else's dream, just build your own.

------
geebee
I generally prefer to use the phrase "age-related employment difficulties"
rather than flat out "age discrimination" when talking about silicon valley. I
absolutely do not doubt that there is plenty the latter, but a bigger issue is
the general culture that, as the article puts it, "might as well be
scientifically designed in order to make adults with kids and a mortgage run
away screaming".

I do think these sorts of articles and stories about the experience of being
middle aged win silicon valley re important, because young people do need a
counterpoint to the almost relentless message that there is a shortage of
software developers and that what the US really needs is more young people
going into CS.

What they need to hear is that in San Jose, registered nurses earn a bit more
than software developers (122k/yr median vs 116k), and dental hygienists in SF
earn only a bit less. Lawyers in San Jose, in spite of all the talk of a glut,
earn a median of 185K a year.

No, it isn't paradise in these fields, the grass is never totally and
perfectly green on the other side. But we need to understand how rational the
aversion to software development careers really is when you consider the
options available to highly educated, focused, intelligent young people.

Of course, plenty of people still do ok as they cross the 40, 50, 60 year
threshold. However, in many fields, there is nothing remarkable about this.
Lawyers and dental hygienists don't tell stories on job boards about they guy
over 40 they know who managed to stay relevant. Many young people considering
a career or college major are increasingly aware of what goes on, this is yet
another reason why they avoid this field or abandon it quickly and early in
their careers.

------
chrisbennet
The article mentions that silicon valley hasn't had a net increase in jobs
since 1998 and links to this article:

[http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/531726/technol...](http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/531726/technology-
and-inequality/)

"According to Chris Benner, a regional economist at the University of
California, Davis, there has been no net increase in jobs in Silicon Valley
since 1998; digital technologies inevitably mean you can generate billions of
dollars from a low employment base."

------
blisterpeanuts
The linked article is not exactly the pinnacle of journalistic quality
(referring to generic alleged age discriminators as "jerks", for example), but
the topic is timely and relevant.

As a 50-something IT guy, of course, I'm painfully aware of age screening in
the hiring process, and I've reluctantly acquiesced in recent years to others'
advice to shorten my lengthy resume to include only the past 10-15 years'
worth of experience.

But, I'm not about to go out and sue somebody. First of all, I'm not into
suing potential employers; it tends to burn bridges, waste money, and just
make things worse overall.

Secondly, go prove it. I mean, I've applied for hundreds of jobs over the
years, and most of them either never answer, or interview me then decline to
offer, or sometimes put me on hold and a few months later ask me to come fill
a different position. Who am I to conclude that it's all about age?

There are so many factors involved that isolating age as _the_ main reason for
being passed over is difficult if not impossible. Of course, companies
sometimes do settle out of court just to avoid the expense and bad press
associated with defending themselves, but that just feeds the lawsuit beast
and I'm really against frivolous lawsuits and the horrific effect they've had
on our society.

Thirdly, why would I, at my current stage in life, want to be an employee of a
company run by and full of 20-somethings who are young enough to be my sons
(or, occasionally, daughters ;)? I have been there, and I find myself cringing
to watch Junior say and do silly things. The father in me tells me to let him
go ahead and make his mistakes because that's part of growing up. The
politician in me tells me to keep my mouth shut and look for something better.

Nope, although I'm quite fortunate right now to have a work-from-home full
time job designing and writing web apps and mobile apps for a living, if I
found myself out of work I'd probably try to start my own consulting business
or otherwise try to make it free-lancing and partnering with other app writers
and designers rather than go and try to be a code monkey at a 20-something
start-up. Or try to start my own start-up, for that matter.

The 20-somethings (except for a few cool, mature-beyond-their-years ones)
don't relate to me, because they're young and inexperienced. I can relate to
them, however, but I have already been through that awkward phase of life and
have little interest in reliving it!

Frankly I'm surprised that so many 40-somethings and 50-somethings really want
to work in such an environment. A friend of mine in SV complains about his
manager who is half his age, who said "convert this script from Python to
Java; it shouldn't take you more than half an hour" and in fact it took my
friend two weeks. Come on, if it takes half an hour then do it yourself,
hotshot. On the other hand I have a manager who is 20+ years my junior, and
he's very cool, mature beyond his years, very focused on business.

