
Bushi.do is now Cloudfuji.com, launches Kandan - beautiful open source chat - sgrove
http://cloudfuji.com/blog/2012/05/07/launching_cloudfuji.html
======
ollerac
Please don't require credit card information when you advertise a link on that
page as "Launch and use Kandan now". And especially not when that credit card
information is required as the second step in an initially single-step seeming
sign-up process -- and also, please don't hide all of this behind a big
"Launch" button.

~~~
illumin8
If it's an open source app... where can I download the source to run it on my
own server? Don't tell me it's open source, then ask me for a credit card
number.

~~~
hugs
<https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan>

<http://kandan.me/>

------
sgrove
The beautiful part of Kandan is courtesy of the design by Sacha Greif. He
wrote an ebook about how he went about designing it, and it was discussed
here: <http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=3731135>

The amazing implementation is from a lot of hard work on Kevin Zettler's (my
cofounder) part, who's amazing at polishing apps.

Let us know your thoughts, and switch to using Kandan on Cloudfuji today :)

~~~
davedx
Purely impersonal criticism, but I'm getting 'beautiful' fatigue from Show HN
submissions.

'Beautiful' and 'amazing' in the same paragraph once sounded impressive, but
now it's kind of tiresome.

Like I said, this is nothing against you, it's more a general trend that I'm
tired of seeing. Not everything on the web needs to be 'beautiful'.

~~~
oskarth
Agree. It's especially obnoxious if it comes from the author himself. It's the
equivalent of having a tagline saying "I'm a smart developer who works hard" -
it might be true but it's not your call, it's just a counter-signal.

On second thought, I guess my criticism is more personal than yours, but I
really think it's a kind of pollution that has no place in a somewhat clean
community such as HN.

EDIT: I do like the look of it, but I think everyone would be better of if you
(you as in Cloudfuji, not the specific designer in question) used a neutral
language. If someone goes on to say in the comments "That's beautiful." it's
worth so much more for everyone involved.

~~~
sgrove
I didn't design Kandan, but I do think it's beautiful. And as I said, that's
because of Sacha Greif's amazing work.

Design in open source is - in general - sorely lacking. We want to correct
that, and help herald in a new era of apps that are not only powerful, but
easy to use and a joy to look at.

~~~
sgdesign
Thanks! I personally reserve words like "beautiful" for things like sunsets or
mountains, but in any case I'm glad you find the design aesthetically pleasing
:)

------
SeoxyS
I think Chat is one of those core services, like Email that has standardized
around one common standard. People use a wide variety of clients, and very
different uses from basic to power user needs. The reason most chat services
fail is that even if they have fantastic mobile and web clients, they cannot
provide the sheer range of clients needed for the entire range of use cases.

At Chartboost, we've tried pretty much every protocol there is, but we still
stick to IRC. It's the only protocol that has clients that suit all of us,
from hardcore `irssi` to newbie Adium integration. There's also bouncers and
solid local histories and it's easy to hop onto tech channels for some help
and it's widely supported with chatbots and libraries for building your own
chatbot. (eg. Ruby-IRC)

~~~
oskarth
I agree that IRC is still the chat protocol to use. Though in choosing a chat
solutions there are some questions that often arise:

1) persistency (BNCs are still a techie solution, servers)

2) good web interface and

3) file support (other than DCC, unless a bot is present)

Here is where for example Campfire managed to take quite a big chunk out of
the startup chat market.

Are there any clients that integrates well with IRC with those 3 qualities?
(file support could be solved by a custom file repo with imgur-like links, or
a DCC bot for those on irssi)

~~~
wladimir
Quassel solves (1) in a user friendly way. It does not address your other
points, though (there's a Linux, Windows, Mac desktop version and an Android
app, but not a web interface AFAIK).

------
mutewinter
The source code is a treasure trove for those looking for an example of a
larger Backbone.js application with a Rails backend and Faye for push
notifications to the browser.

Backbone code -
[https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/tree/master/app/assets/j...](https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/tree/master/app/assets/javascripts/backbone)

Faye (on the Backbone side) -
[https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/blob/master/app/assets/j...](https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/blob/master/app/assets/javascripts/backbone/broadcasters/faye.js.coffee)

Faye (on the Ruby side) -
[https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/blob/master/app/models/a...](https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/blob/master/app/models/activity_observer.rb)

~~~
sgrove
Thanks - Akash Manhor (<https://twitter.com/hashnuke>) made both of those
decisions early on in Kandan's life. There have been challenges around both,
but overall it's worked out very well - in fact, the faye interface opens up
some really interesting possibilities. We'll have some examples of this soon.

------
Vekz
We will be talking about Kandan and other exciting open source projects at our
meetup

[http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-New-Wave-Open-Source-
App...](http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-New-Wave-Open-Source-Apps/)

I'd like to thank our friends at singly.com for generously offering to host.
Come join us for a drink and meet some friends.

------
mcmire
This is great, I admit the design is pleasing, but I gotta ask the obvious
question here which is... what is wrong with Campfire or HipChat or the
multitude other group chat apps that have sprung up in recent years? (not
counting that Kandan is opensource, which is pretty cool)

~~~
sgrove
The fact that it's open source is very important to us, and that (along with
it having a wonderful design) will serve as the kernel that'll move Kandan in
an amazing direction. With things like WebRTC and javascript audio/video
decoders and the open source design, I think we'll see Kandan turn into a
really amazing tool.

I wanted some of these features in Campfire for years, but I couldn't just
fork Campfire and give the features back. Now I , and others, can.

Most people don't want to run their own services, but they want to _be able
to_ fix bugs and add features when they feel like it. Cloudfuji's model lets
everyone do that, and app authors to make sustainable revenue.

And thanks for bringing that up, it's an important question!

------
w1ntermute
Just a note: the name comes from the Japanese word 「歓談」(also pronounced
"kandan"), meaning "chat."

~~~
replax
it carries a thoroughly positive connotation with it, though, as suggested by
the 「歓」。

~~~
w1ntermute
Yes, it can also be translated as "pleasant talk."

------
Johnyma22
Would love to see Etherpad integrated into this or the other way around!
Awesome :)

~~~
sgrove
An etherpad running on on Cloudfuji, or integrated into Kandan?

We're dying for a Sharejs-based etherpad app on Cloudfuji, but all things in
due time :)

------
necrodome
From the source of the app (<https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan>), it seems
that it doesn't check for authorization -for now-, so be aware that anyone can
signup to your own private instance if they know your url and do nasty things
like deleting channels.

~~~
sgrove
Good point - we wanted to keep it as open as possible, and as easy to get
started as possible. Hence the (literally) copy/paste instructions to get
running on somewhere like Heroku, with no need to provision other services.

But obscurity isn't security. We'd love to hear what people think about how
this should be handled - <https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/issues>

------
ghost91
Quite nice.

But you should seriously improve your registration field, I could register
with an one character long password.

~~~
ghost91
even an empty password is possible!

~~~
sgrove
Talk about a nice user experience! :)

In all seriousness, fixed. Thanks!

------
nathan_f77
This app does have a really great design, especially when a lot of open source
apps are lacking in this department. I'm really impressed with Sacha's work,
and have really enjoyed his "Step by Step UI Design" ebook, which details his
design process for Kandan.

Look forward to contributing sometime!

------
nyar
What's going on with the design of <http://cloudfuji.com/apps/new?app=kandan>
?

Left aligned slideshow of different sized compressed images and no text. You
took the time to make the client look pretty, 10 more minutes won't hurt.

------
shadowz
Really dig the design on Kandan but I wish it could be used as a front for
XMPP/Jabber also.

~~~
sgrove
I personally would love to see it be a self-contained irc/xmpp/jabber/faye
server, but all in good time. We want to make open-source beautiful, easy to
access, and easily extensible. So we're releasing what we have now, with
plenty of momentum towards things like providing an XMPP backend!

~~~
ahnberg
I am happy to see IRC here. Way underused communication method! Certainly are
things that can be improved with the protocol and services, but few people
understand how useful it can be for business aswell as personal chat-needs.

------
adjohn
Congratulations Sean! This looks great, and I'm looking forward to trying it
out.

------
Intermediate
I tried to change url of my application, but it doesnt seem to be working.
There is just no button to submit the form with application settings, I tried
to sumbit it in other way, but it made no visible effect

~~~
sgrove
I'll take a look at it right away - can you give me the app name, or just
email me at sean@cloudfuji.com and I'll get it sorted.

~~~
Intermediate
<http://concise-winner-5927.cloudfujiapp.com/>

------
sgrove
Use promo-code hn-preview on <http://cloudfuji.com/promo> for a 50% discount
on the team package - 3 apps and 6 teammates.

But make sure to give us your awesome feedback :)

------
yakshaving
Congratulations Sean and team. Sacha, nice work on the design!

~~~
sgdesign
Thanks, glad you like it!

------
manveru
Is drag&drop the only way to upload things? Would be nice to have a <input
type="file"> because I have no place to drag stuff from.

~~~
sgrove
Currently yes. I've added a ticket
<https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan/issues/20> to see how we'll fix that up.

Is there a reason you don't have a place to drag from?

~~~
zoba
ChromeOS, possibly?

~~~
sgrove
Ah very interesting possibility. I have no idea how Chrome OS works, or if
it's something we should worry much about right now.

------
twodayslate
So you have to "install" this app to chat? How is this better than IRC?
Personally, I think grove.io has much more features.

------
kunalmodi
looks great, can't wait to try it

small nitpik: the github link links to creating the app on cloudfuji

~~~
twog
The github link is broken for me as well. Here is the direct link to the
github project for anyone else looking for it
<https://github.com/cloudfuji/kandan>

~~~
sgrove
Fixed!

------
tibbon
Love it, however I wish it wasn't AGPL as I really can't use that in my
startup.

