
What Do Animals See in a Mirror? (2014) - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/issue/47/consciousness/what-do-animals-see-in-a-mirror-rp
======
ZeroClickOk
Nice article!

I have cared a lot of cats, and I didnt knew about all that experiences, but I
did a lot about this with my pets. I put a mirror in front of the cat, and
watched the reactions. The pattern is 90% the same:

1) The cat looks surprised. Depending of the the natural character of the cat,
he will watch the reflex or get "armed" to fight. Cleary he think its another
stranger cat.

2) The cat then try "feel" the reflex, touching sometimes, smelling other
times, and ever trying look behind the mirror

3) Finally, the cat probably detects the reflex is not a threat and lose the
interest

I really dont know if has some part of "self awareness", but probably the cat
lose the interest really far before any of this level of perception

Other point is, the cat trust more in the sense of smell and hearing than the
sense of view. Only one image is not enough to "identify" a target.

~~~
Razengan
You have _created_ cats?

My experience with cats is that they are definitely intelligent, in general,
and are aware of a lot of things, but they generally just don't care.

One VERY _unique_ kitten that I had, whenever he approached a mirror, or a
glass door or window, would stand up on his hind legs and rapidly rub or
"massage" the glass with both his front paws, like a puppy, as if trying to
climb it or roll it open.

Sadly I never captured the act on camera and he died an unfairly early death
that I took a long time to recover from.

~~~
geonnave
Maybe that guy's native language is portuguese?

In brazilian portuguese, the word "raise" (in the context of raising kids,
pets, etc.) translates to "criar"; while "create" also translates to "criar".

~~~
felipellrocha
Brazilian here, I thought the same thing. Matter of fact, I only noticed the
word after the second guy mentioned it...

------
tbabb
There are a lot of steps not related to self-awareness involved in
investigating oneself in a mirror. For example, with the "spot" test, the
animal has to:

1) Be interested enough in the reflection to watch it long enough to see the
spot

2) Be observant enough to notice the spot

3) Be curious enough to care about the spot

4) Understand that the animal in the mirror is itself

5) Collapse the logical chain that: (a) if the animal in the mirror has a
spot, and (b) the animal in the mirror is itself, then therefore (c) _it_ has
a spot.

6) Think to use the mirror as a tool for investigation.

An animal could plausibly get (4) without getting enough of the other steps to
actually start investigating. To me, (5) seems like the most difficult leap of
intelligence of all of these, and it doesn't really have to do with self-
awareness-- it's more about complex inference and logical reasoning. (6) also
suggests that the capability for tool use might be a prerequisite.

Most cat owners understand (including other posters in this thread) that cats
know the difference between their own reflection and another real cat seen
through a window. Disinterest is one explanation (though that doesn't happen
with _actual_ cats in a window), but I don't think cats' failure in the "spot"
experiment is enough to exclude that they are indeed capable of (4).

On top of that, I don't think this experiment says _anything at all_ about the
nature or presence of "consciousness".

~~~
krick
This also seems very plausible to me. I've seen my cat to be frightened by
sudden appearance in the mirror just to relax in about 0.5 s. Clearly not
enough time to decide if the creature in the mirror is harmless, but
apparently enough to recognize himself. The second time he faces mirror in
this location he isn't scared anymore. This isn't at all similar to how he
reacts to actual cats.

Also, it isn't the same with all cats I've known. Some seem to be more
clueless than others.

~~~
literallycancer
>I've seen my cat to be frightened by sudden appearance in the mirror just to
relax in about 0.5 s. Clearly not enough time to decide if the creature in the
mirror is harmless..

Why isn't it enough time to decide whether the reflection is harmless? Not my
area of expertise, but I'd expect humans to be able to parse a face or a even
posture for signs of imminent aggression in that time easily. Many other
animals should be able to do the same.

I'd say we are highly optimized for this, since the biggest threat to humans
have been other humans for most of history, and quick judgement can literally
decide who lives and who dies.

~~~
NobleLie
Well, the reaction of a frightened cat isnt, by design, one that appears
friendly. They usually jump and get a puffy tail. If the cat observes his
reflection jumping and getting a puffy tail, itd make sense for the cat to
assume danger, for he just ran into another cat whom got freaked out seeing
him.

That is, if the cat doesnt recognize itself rather quickly

------
accountyaccount
I recall reading an interesting theory on the mirror test: some animals for
whom sight is a more secondary sense might fail a mirror test, but could
potentially self-identify using other senses.

Take dogs for example: their sense of smell is much much more primary than
their sense of sight. So while they may fail a mirror test, they may be more
adept at self-identification by scent.

Edit: found an article about it from NPR
[http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/03/03/134167145/i-...](http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/03/03/134167145/i-sniff-
therefore-i-am-are-dogs-self-conscious)

------
gfo
I wonder how this applies to humans now that photographs are so common.

At a young age we might not recognize ourselves, but anymore, especially with
social media, we're constantly surrounded by pictures of ourselves in
different situations (or even something as simple as profile pictures on
nearly any website). A young child probably isn't using these but I wonder if
constantly seeing oneself in images all the time reduces the proof that this
is a form a 'higher' thinking as suggested in the introduction of this article
and more of a learned thing due to the immersion with this.

It's not a mirror per se so it's not a live look at you, but nonetheless it's
still you that you're seeing.

------
Markoff
so according this test children under 1-1.5 don't have conscience about self
awareness thus should not have same rights as other human beings, was this
really confirmed at babies? isn't this test beyond their ability to express
themselves?

------
smcg
probably should have (2014) in title.

