
30 days with Windows Phone 8 — Perspective from an admitted iOS addict - petrel
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/12/22/30-days-with-windows-phone-8-perspective-from-an-admitted-ios-addict/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheNextWebMicrosoft+(The+Next+Web+Microsoft)
======
jsz0
Every time I've used a WP device I've walked away disappointed. Haven't done
an extended test just 10-15 minutes on various devices. If I had to point to
any one thing that leaves me disappointed it's probably the excessive amount
of scrolling and swiping required. Even on the larger display devices the
amount of information I can see without scrolling/swiping is a fraction of
what I'm used to from iOS/Android. It leaves me with kind of a stuck-in-the-
mud feeling that I'm just doing a lot of extra work to access the same amount
of information. The same type of problem pops up with apps in a different way.
They tend to be fairly basic and lacking features. I guess this is to be
expected for a relatively young platform but it's really difficult to step
away from these iOS/Android apps that just have so much more functionality.
Between the apps and UI style it almost just feels to me more like a glorified
feature phone. People said the same thing about the iPhone but it had some
really killer features. To get a real web browser I was happy to give up the
unified messages system on my BlackBerry. I can't really find the killer
features in WP that would justify the trade-offs. Honestly every interaction
I've had with WP so far makes me very happy to return to iOS/Android where all
my apps pack tons of information on the screen and have just about every
feature I need.

~~~
danieldk
I have used an iPhone for nearly four years. After playing with a Nokia Lumia
710 (WP7) for some weeks, I bought a WP8 last weak, and too be honest, I
couldn't be happier.

The thing that I really like (besides the Metro interface) compared to iOS is
the integration of Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn et al in the People hub. It
actually gives me _more_ information density than the iPhone, where I have to
switch between various applications to see what happened. If I want to zoom in
to specific persons or groups, I just make a tile to get a subset of that
information (e.g. I have a 'Family' tile for my parents, brother, etc.). Also,
it comes with a lot of functionality out of the box, such as a lightweight
versions of Office and OneNote, Skydrive integration, XBox Music Pass support
(Spotify with a far larger catalogue), etc.

It's true that the number and breadth of applications is relatively small, but
the Windows Phone OS is fairly complete, and most applications that I require
are available (Whatsapp, Skype, etc.).

 _Between the apps and UI style it almost just feels to me more like a
glorified feature phone._

To be honest, that's a bit troll-ish, given that WP8 uses the same kernel and
user interface as Windows 8 and given the functionality of the pre-installed
applications.

~~~
elithrar
> To be honest, that's a bit troll-ish, given that WP8 uses the same kernel
> and user interface as Windows 8 and given the functionality of the pre-
> installed applications.

I don't see how it's "troll-ish". To an end-user, the fact that WP8 uses the
same kernel as Windows 8 means _nothing_. It might be an exaggeration but
given the rest of the comment was relatively constructive, it's forgivable.

On the UI side, his major complaint is about information density (a common
complaint about WP7/WP8 apps). That's definitely valid; and I say that having
used WP8 (briefly) and not minding it so much (a feeling that could change
over extended use).

As an iOS user, Windows Phone's aesthetics are definitely appealing (and the
Twitterrific app on iOS channels some of WP8, I feel), but the lack of stand-
out apps and games is the real killer. No Reeder, no Instapaper, no Instagram
or VSCO cam, no Byword, Sword & Swocery, etc.

~~~
j2labs
Similarly, it's interesting to me that Microsoft users will tout things like
hardware in their devices. No iphone user mentions hardware because they don't
care.

Is the device and its ecosystem a great experience or not? That's ALL that
matters.

~~~
recursive
I hear about iphone hardware all the time. You've never heard praise for
apple's mythical "build quality"?

~~~
FuzzyDunlop
Or the Retina display, or the 'more powerful GPU'...

~~~
j2labs
Retina display was something that had never been done. Totally worth talking
about.

My original point was anecdotal, so continuing on that, I've only heard game
developers discuss the GPU.

Most reviews of the latest windows tablet discussed the hardware. This
processor and that amount of ram... I couldn't care much less.

~~~
mikeash
We should distinguish between _visible_ hardware and invisible hardware.

Apple fans will talk about build quality or screen quality, but rarely about
CPU or GPU stats. Apple doesn't even publish these, and you have to wait for
third parties to figure out what the numbers are.

I'm sure that some people will talk about how great the A6 CPU is or whatever,
but few such people actually know what they're talking about when they do it.

Not trying to make a value judgment here, but this is what I have seen.

~~~
j2labs
Bingo.

------
jetti
I got a Lumia 822 (Verizon-only offering) and I have mixed feelings about it.
I love the Live Tiles but things like IE10 Mobile really frustrate me. There
is no Flash support so I can't go to certain sites (like Beatport Sounds).
There are sites that don't render properly and overall the text is rather
small and I haven't figured out a way to increase the size yet (not sure if it
is the smaller screen size to blame or there is just not a way to increase
that size).

One thing that I have found to be an annoyance is the search button on the
bottom of the phone. No matter what it will bring me to the Bing search, which
is good unless it is hit by accident. There is an archery game that I enjoy
that has you press and drag to aim and quite often I'm brought to the search
screen because my finger goes out of the screen area and hits the search icon.
My fault? Of course, but it is incredibly frustrating.

The other thing I hate is volume control. There are only two. One for in call
volume and then one for the ring tone. That seems great, except that the ring
tone volume also controls headphone/media volume. If I want my ringtone low
then my volume for youtube will be low. If I want to my ringtone to be loud
(which I haven't been able to get, even with the volume turned all the way up
to 30 out of 30 I can still barely hear it) and so will all my media. I wasn't
happy with my previous Android phone (HTC Evo 4G) but at least my volume for
media was separate from my volume for ringtone.

Overall, I'm happy with it and some of the addons from Nokia are amazing; such
as an app that uses augmented reality and shows various attractions
(restaurants, gas stations, etc) in the area while you are holding up your
camera. It will mark them on your screen as well as tell you how far you are
from that location and the ability to get quick reviews. Plus it shows a
compass in the upper right which allows you to know which direction it is in.
While there are major issues, in my eyes, that need to be fixed, I still think
the phone is better than the Android phone I had before and for only $30 with
a new plan (due to $20 trade in credit and just Verizon slashing the price)
you can't really go wrong.

~~~
shellehs
Flash is the Legent on mobile devices. Even Adobe the builder they have
dropped Flash on mobile platform, so let's forget about Flash. Even on my Web
browsers, I can't tolerate without Flash Block add-on.

And, I think Nokia's phone is good, for in so short time left. They just need
time to improve

~~~
jetti
I hear this time and time again. "Flash is dead" and it is, except when it
isn't. Beatport Sounds use it for playing samples, which means that I cannot
use that site on my phone. Since WP8 is so locked down, the only browser
option is IE 10 Mobile, so locking me out of flash means that one of the sites
I want to go to is not fully functional for me. As a user, that pisses me off.

~~~
Someone
FWIW: if I go to <http://sounds.beatport.com/publisher/sounds-to-
sample/19417>, the play buttons produce sounds. That is on an iPad, which
denitely doesn't have Flash.

=> contact them to have them fix/adjust their site for Windows Phone 8 and
help us make Flash deader (yes, there is no honor in kicking a man who is
down, but sometimes it just is the best for both parties involved)
[http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/...](http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/10/17/getting-
websites-ready-for-internet-explorer-10-on-windows-phone-8.aspx) may be a
helpful link for them.

~~~
jetti
I just had to try this. I navigated to that site on my phone (using this link)
and when I click the play button it acts just as if I clicked any link with a
"#" as the href. It brings me to the top and nothing. I guess I'll try and get
in contact with Beatport to get their site to work on WP8.

------
rogerbinns
One factor I also look at is what happens when you want to write some code on
your computer and put it on your device (it does say "Hacker" at the top
left).

Only Android scores well in this respect and it looks like none of the
competition really cares.

~~~
jsolson
To be fair, many of the folks on this site probably don't much care either. If
you've got an Apple developer license, you can put rather a lot on your phone
that Apple wouldn't let through the store.

... and of course, if you Jailbreak your phone you can put anything you damn
well please on there.

~~~
w1ntermute
> many of the folks on this site probably don't much care either.

Because most of the people on this site aren't actually hackers, they're
businessmen who use technology to make money. The "hacker" label is just used
to appear hip.

~~~
lbotos
I don't know if it's selection bias at work but I've always felt that this
community had a large group of influential and actual hackers. From low level
stuff to language maintainers to people who worked on space shuttles. If
anything, the fact that I rub e-elbows with these folks is a great feeling. In
the company of giants, if you will.

~~~
marshray
Agree. There's a really special mix on this board that makes it what it is.
I've seen quite a few legit hackers posting here, for many definitions of
'hacker'.

~~~
bcbrown
"quite a few hackers" != "most people are hackers"

~~~
marshray
Replying to _this community had a large group of influential and actual
hackers_.

------
bhauer
I've really enjoyed my Nokia 920 so far.

I find myself most interested in the OP's point that Microsoft should offer a
flagship Windows phone ala the Google Nexus line.

The app situation is meager by comparison to the two big boys in mobile, but
I've been able to get by well enough.

Like the OP, I really like the default mail client. It's way better in my
opinion than the Android client. For one thing, it doesn't Base64 encode
everything [1]. I also prefer Bing maps to Google maps. The virtual keyboard
is really solid, and the predictive text beats what I've dealt with on my
wife's Galaxy Nexus. If you're interested, I wrote up a mini review at my blog
a month back [2].

[1] <http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2630> [2]
<http://tiamat.tsotech.com/lumia-920>

~~~
jasondenizac
Given Microsoft's relationship with Nokia, doesn't that make the Lumia 920 the
defacto flagship Winodws Phone? I agree with the author of the article that I
would prefer it to come without all of the carrier garbage, but it's easily
removed.

------
rlu
I think that this article basically his the nail on the head in most respects.
I agree with his complaints as well as his thoughts on why it's good. I
currently own a WP7 device but am looking to pick up a 920 or 8X in February
when I get an upgrade available.

In the end I think he really nails it in the last paragraph: overall this is a
solid offering that is hindered by lack of apps which is due to a lack of
consumers (...which is largely due to a lack of apps?). If more people take
the plunge, then the apps will come and this will become a non issue.

Time will tell, I guess!

------
clarky07
I also just gave up my iPhone 5 for a week to test the HTC 8x I am using to
dev with. I have been very pleasantly surprised with how much I like it. I'm
sticking with the iPhone for now, but I really like wp8. I'd put it at a close
second just ahead of android. Dev'ing for it has been nice as well. First app
is in review as we speak.

~~~
kenjackson
So... What's the app? We need to support or fellow HNers.

~~~
clarky07
It's a GPS tracking app for skiers (with running and biking skinned versions
to come later). Sadly it's still in review with Microsoft, I was hoping it
would get released by Christmas. Here are links to the Android and iOS
versions:

Ski Tracker+ for Android -
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thirtySout...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thirtySouth.SkiTracker)

For iPhone - [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ski-tracker-gps-tracking-
for...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ski-tracker-gps-tracking-
for/id576398281?mt=8)

All iPhone - <https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/30-south-llc/id331245760>

All Android - <https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=30+South>

~~~
clarky07
Update, Windows app released - [http://www.windowsphone.com/en-
us/store/app/ski-tracker/4b7b...](http://www.windowsphone.com/en-
us/store/app/ski-tracker/4b7b89a8-1a59-4a67-9ad2-f0278ed77054)

------
rcb
Last December I purchased an HTC Titan running 7.5 from a Microsoft Store. A
couple months later, HTC released the Titan II, and not long after that,
Microsoft announced my new phone was incapable of running WP8. I have never
experienced such rapid technological obsolescence with any purchase.

Six months after purchasing my phone, AT&T still hadn't enabled visual
voicemail, and numerous WP fixes (including several security patches) were
never made available to my device. I'll blame AT&T for that, as well.

I was so disgusted by the experience that I went back to iOS, spending nearly
$1300 on two mobile phones over a period of six months.

WP is a fantastic operating system, and for many reasons I do prefer it over
iOS. What I did not like was the third and fourth tier app ecosystem, AT&T's
interference with service upgrades and patches, and how MS sold me hardware
when they knew it essentially would be EOLed with their WP8 announcement.

~~~
sliverstorm
I'd say HTC and AT&T sold you hardware, not MS.

~~~
rcb
I have the receipt in hand, and at the very top it says "Microsoft Store." I'd
say my purchase was in fact from MS.

~~~
calciphus
Pretty sure the folks at the MS store that sold you the thing didn't know the
WP8 announcement would end support for new features for your device. In fact,
I'd bet that very few folks at AT&T or HTC knew. If you expect that level of
"every device gets every new feature", you probably will be happier on iOS.

------
sil3ntmac
Have they fixed the back button? I had a wp7 phone for a while and this
userflow breaks the back button:

1\. Open IE and browse the web a little 2\. Press the home button, read your
text messages or some bullshit 3\. Press the home button again, open IE. Now
try and browse back one page in your history (e.g., you're returning to hacker
news after reading a story). The physical back button takes you back to the
home page. There is no "soft" back button, so I have to pull up my history and
use that.

Horrible!!!!!! Maybe Android is this way but it seems horrendously stupid to
not even give me the option of a soft button.

~~~
apetrovic
Yes, the back button is broken because it forces the user to _think_ how
things work.

In your example, if you left IE, instead of starting it again from the home
screen you should hold the back button to enter task switcher and jump into
running IE instance from there. After that the back button will work ok.

Which is counter-intuitive - tapping tile on the start screen should either
give you the same experience like jumping in the app from task switcher, or
start new application instance.

~~~
sil3ntmac
THANK YOU! Can't believe I missed the task switcher. Edit: spelling

------
bhups
I currently own an Android phone (Galaxy Nexus). I've always been fascinated
by the WP UI. It's a refreshingly new style that allows enough customization
while maintaining a consistent look for the OS across devices. I've been
telling myself that I want to make the jump when I'm eligible for my next
upgrade, using Launcher7 and Launcher8 in the meanwhile to satisfy my Metro
craving.

With that being said, the one thing that's been keeping me from making the
jump is the Google integration that Android gives me. For people like me that
are so dependent on Google services, Android's native support for Google Talk,
Google Docs, Gmail, Google Calendar (and Tasks), and Google Chrome (since 4.2)
has become essential.

If there's a way to be able to use these services on Windows Phone, I will
almost immediately switch over, as I am very impressed with Redmond's
offering, and look forward to seeing how they continue to tell the Windows
Phone story.

------
spiralpolitik
I played with a Lumina 920 when I was in the store a few days ago. It demoed
very well and the phone itself was very nice.

I was willing to buy one for my collection of smartphones for research and
development purposes, however in the UK its currently only available on the
high street as an exclusive with EE and the phone is locked to that network.
Sad but true.

Clearly Microsoft didn't learn from the mistake Palm made as when you aren't
the market leader, going with an exclusive carrier deal only prevents people
buying into your platform. Apple learned that, and clearly Microsoft feels
necessary to mimic even Apple's mistakes before it gets it. I'm sure RIM will
make the same mistake when they launch BB10 next month this leading to their
demise. All this has happened before and all this will happen again.

~~~
recoiledsnake
That's Nokia's decision to go with an EE exclusive, not Microsoft's. The other
carriers are going to get the Lumia 920 in January. Other Windows Phones are
not carrier exclusive, for example HTC's flagship 8x is available on all
carriers in the US.

~~~
spiralpolitik
If it was Nokia's decision then they are even more doomed than I thought.

------
Yhippa
I had an HTC Arrive running Windows Phone 7.5 which I loved except for one
thing: the lack of apps. The OP mentions this too. I wonder if they'll be able
to wait this problem out like they did with the Xbox?

------
sbuk
I must admit as an Apple device wielding individual that the Windows Phone UI
has always intrigued me. I was put off however by a colleague who at the time
of writing is on his 4th Lumina 920. I know that this is anecdotal, but the
hassle the guy had getting faulty phones replaced was poor. Nokia weren't
interested. Which is why I'll stick with Apple. My own experience of their
customer service has been second to none, and ultimately it's a big decider
for me. It is a lovely device though, _when it works_.

Having tested Window 8 Desktop with a view to deployment in the enterprise
space, all I can say is that as things stand, not a chance. The metaphor just
doesn't translate to the desktop.

~~~
cmelbye
As another anecdote: I had to get my 920 replaced, and it couldn't have been
easier. I went into an AT&T store that specialized in device support, they
looked at it for a few seconds, and immediately ordered a new one with free
overnight priority shipping to my home.

------
Toshio
> The mobile device market is far too large to be constrained to two choices.

That's why we need Jolla's Sailfish OS and Samsung's Tizen to start competing
for third place already.

~~~
kenshiro_o
I just don't think this is going to happen. Look how late it was before MS
considered getting serious in the smartphone game! Now despite all the praise
on WP8 and the Nokia devices (HTC as well), they still seem to be making very
little headway. The reason why Samsung have fared so well is because they
could focus on hardware (copying bits of the IPhone design initially) while
Google's Android team polished the software. I don't believe they have what it
takes to make a great mobile OS. This is not their forte.

