
Are robots better baristas? Berkeley’s Bbox café thinks so - incomplete
https://www.berkeleyside.com/2019/02/15/are-robots-better-baristas-berkeleys-bbox-cafe-thinks-so
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uhtred
I'm sorry, but pushing a button on a fully automatic espresso machine does not
make the robot a barista. I'd like to see the robot make me an espresso using
a semi-automatic espresso machine, making sure to sample the espresso
throughout the day to check for over or under extraction, and adjusting the
grind to compensate for changes in air pressure and temperature.

~~~
ihuman
> barista noun

> a person who makes and serves coffee (such as espresso) to the public

[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barista](https://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/barista)

Sounds to me like this robot is a barista. Do you also think Starbucks
baristas aren't baristas, just because they don't work in a high-end
coffeeshop?

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delinka
> _person_ who makes ...

Are these robots persons?

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mc32
Isn’t that limitation because up until now it’s always been people, but in the
future could include robots or trained (non human) animals?

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simple_phrases
Was the Automat staffed with machine waiters?

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brucemoose
As someone who works remotely I'll go out to the coffee shop for some brief
human interaction. Sometimes it's the only time in the day I interact with
people outside my home.

Personally I don't see the draw to a goofy robotic arm that slings espresso.
Vending machines are already a thing, coffee included. This just seems like an
excessively expensive way to implement one.

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Gpetrium
I think it is worth noting that if it becomes cost effective to have a robotic
arm setting up your coffee and enough customers appreciate the intrinsic
benefits, businesses will move towards that direction. In the future, we might
see human-led coffee shops as a niche market!

In terms of human interaction, just like in the past, humans will always find
ways to get their share of interaction.

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gammateam
> In the future, we might see human-led coffee shops as a niche market!

Basically Tokyo right now

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zaroth
That is a very ugly solution in my opinion. TFA they set out to make a bit of
performance art out of it with “machines operating machines” but the result is
dystopian not beautiful. Seeing a robotic arm with n degrees of freedom which
looks like it could weld cars just to move a coffee cup around in space...

And it probably makes terrible coffee. Notice the lack of late art, and the
poor quality of the foam.

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skwb
You can actually get decent milk foam these days with automatic frothers.
James Hoffman reviewed an automatic espresso machine, and said that he finds
little excuse anymore for subpar latte foam when you can achieve such high
quality in a domestic machine.

[https://youtu.be/fRBOxyu2b2Q?t=319](https://youtu.be/fRBOxyu2b2Q?t=319)

Edit: What I mean by this is that we have the current technology to do
"decent" latte foam and that anything else should be considered a short cut,
human or robot derived.

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JacobJans
I don't get it. There have been fully-automatic, vending machine style
espresso machines around for a long time. This seems to use technology suited
for a different purpose; it's certainly a big robot, but it doesn't exactly
seem good at making coffee.

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bullfightonmars
Ha. Exactly. This is a very large, expensive, and inefficient vending machine.

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darkpuma
_Year and years_ ago, there used to exist a profession where a man behind a
bar mixed softdrinks together for customers on demand, often with custom
embellishments like cherries, ice cream and the like. This was a very popular,
very trendy job. And customers enjoyed the experience. You can still find
elderly people today who lament the almost complete demise of the _soda jerk_.

I'm pretty sure barista will eventually go the way of the soda jerk. It's
inconceivable to this generation; people can't imagine giving up the 'human
touch' and personalization. But one day, maybe 20 years from now or two or
three generations from now, convenience of automatic systems will win and the
barista will be relegated to one or two retro novelty shops in large cities.
And the people in this thread will be the new elderly curmudgeons, complaining
about how young people live life too fast and fucked it all up.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_jerk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_jerk)

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evv
These robots take the space of a human, but it isn't safe for a human to be in
there at the same time as the robot. Plus, people can self-optimize. If you
put another robot in there, it would barely increase throughput. Two humans
would easily fit in that space, and they could roughly double throughput
during peak hours.

Look to CafeX for a slightly different approach at the exact same concept.
Except the whole coffee shop fits in a 2 meter cube.

Personally I think the most effective coffee machine won't even use these
gigantic industrial robot arms. But they make for an entertaining gimmick.

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carlob
This really drives me nuts. You get this long article about the "discerning
coffee connoisseur", and yet you have a picture of the robot pouring coffee in
a paper cup.

To me this is exactly like seeing an article about sommelier and a picture of
a guy drinking wine from a paper cup. Well no it's actually much worse: wine
is rather cold compared to coffee so it doesn't extract the taste of paper and
plastic as much as coffee does.

I really really can't understand how anyone would spend over $2 (often
significantly more) to drink anything out of a disposable container. One
espresso costs them at most $0.20 in beans, electricity and water, you mark it
up 10 times, you gotta give me the option of a ceramic or glass cup. Compare
that with a glass of wine, which usually is marked up only 2-3 times in a
restaurant...

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whatshisface
Ceramic cups are available for as little as $0.40/each. I think your idea
might actually work, even if guests are allowed to bring their cups home.

[0] [https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-
cup.html](https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html)

~~~
carlob
It's not quite "my idea", it's how hot beverages have been served and drank
for centuries before the invention of disposable cups.

Somewhat related fun fact: did you know that the waffle ice cream cone was
invented to make the ice cream "to go" before paper cups were widespread?

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SatvikBeri
CafeX in San Francisco is pretty nice, the major advantage is that it takes up
very little space (which saves a lot of money due to the high rents in SF) and
it's pretty fast, I generally get my coffee there much faster than from a
local Starbucks or Blue Bottle.

I don't expect automated cafes to be as good in every way, but if they can get
80% of the way there with higher speed or lower costs they'll have my
business.

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lwkl
Is a person that operates a fully automatic coffee machine a barista?

I love a good espresso but you can‘t even get that at most places. A lot of
people seem to like Starbucks I don‘t think they serve a good espresso. It
seems to me that they specialize in hot milkshakes and not coffee.

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audiometry
Hahahaha hot milkshakes. That is so revolting but so accurate.

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RickJWagner
I'm a bit surprised to see this at liberal Berkeley. It seems to be poised to
wipe out scores of low-skilled retail/labor jobs, at the benefit of the
business owners and maybe a mechanical engineer.

Reminds me of John Henry from the great Johnny Cash:

"Now did the Lord say that machines ought to take place of livin'?

And what's a substitute for bread and beans? I ain't seen it!

Do engines get rewarded for their steam?"

[https://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/johnny+cash/the+legend+of+john...](https://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/johnny+cash/the+legend+of+john+henrys+hammer_20235202.html)

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konpoly
This is a really interesting idea. If they can replicate what a human barista
can do, this has alot of potential. Customers make accounts to order coffee
from their phones, so you can send a survey after the person gets their coffee
and ask how they liked it. Depending on what they say, the robots can make the
coffee a little different next time until they find what the customer likes.
So you can have a consistent cup of coffee that is made just for you.

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sebringj
Just an opinion but this is fantastic tech, just lacks any humanoid
resemblance, more like an industrial car factory assembly line. In the future
of course, we will have humanoid robots that appeal to our emotions as well
because why not?

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macpete
The foam is really bad - not smooth or creamy and plenty of bubbles

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flog
I'm going to go all Australasian Coffee Snob here: They may well be correct
for Berkeley, but they've got a large barrier to acceptance outside of the US.

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spatten
Another, more human, take on this from Barista Hustle:

[https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-death-of-the-death-of-
the...](https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-death-of-the-death-of-the-barista/)

TL;DR (I watched this a couple of months ago, so this is an attempt a
remembering the thesis. I also don't know if I agree or not that this is a
good future, but it is the future presented in the video) -- the robots are
coming, which is going to give us push-button coffee. There will still be
people there to give you a human experience, and they'll get to focus on that
experience instead of being split between making coffee and talking to you.

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thisacctforreal
Skipped the intro, watched 10 minutes on my break as a part-time barista and
it's great so far.

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Simulacra
Only if we don't have to tip them...

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RileyJames
I’m guessing they will add a tip option within a year. Only it will be a
donation to some charity. (Read, tax deduction)

Americans have been culturally trained to tip. It’s easy money.

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magduf
Yep, I finally took a trip to western Europe recently and was shocked at how
much cheaper it was to eat out at nice restaurants than in the US. Once you
factor in the tax and tip, eating out in the US is very expensive.

I was also shocked at how much cheaper decent hotel rooms are there.

