
Educated Germans avoid social media - phreeza
http://www.dw.com/en/educated-germans-avoid-social-media/a-18875970
======
madez
As a german I can tell from experience that in Germany it is much more
accepted — and quite often even sympathized with — not to have a facebook
account than for example in Spain or Brazil. And it makes me proud, if I’m
allowed to add that.

~~~
BogusIKnow
As a German I don't use Facebook. Most of my friends also don't use Facebook.
For me it's just a waste of time and doesn't make sense.

~~~
theandrewbailey
I'm not German and I don't use Facebook either. For the last few years, I've
slowly noticed that people who use Facebook only do so because everybody else
does and loathe it somewhat, but can't bring themselves to pull the plug
because of network effects.

~~~
BogusIKnow
What I found interesting is the study that shows that Facebook depresses
people, because all their friends put up their best moments and photos and so
seem to have all wonderful lives.

------
orthoganol
The main reasons social media is used:

a) You have a career that requires some PR management

b) You're the type who gets pleasure in showing off (the best image of)
yourself to others

c) You are bored, and you get a small thrill from the attention

Are there any other reasons to be a regular, active participant on Twitter,
Instagram, or Facebook? I get 'just having one' as a sort of contact
directory, but beyond that...

Would an educated, independent thinker, someone who really tries to engage and
understand the world and has discovered interesting opportunities which they
pursue, really have any reason to spend significant time on social media?

~~~
Mandatum
Planning social engagements with friends. I can easily see who is going, let
organisers and everyone else know if they want to that I may not make it, as
well as see if there are other engagements that I've already agreed to go to.

I could do this with email and calendars, but I don't know 95% of my friend's
email addresses. We talk over SMS and Facebook Messenger. If I wanted to find
another one of my friend's I just search for their name, and if they have
privacy settings set to only allow friends of friends to search for me -
that's OK too!

I don't have to ask a friend for their email address, or their phone number
and then ask that person for their email address. I don't have to phone or SMS
people to see if they want to come, and I have an easy way to track it.

Sure, we all got along fine before social media. But Facebook has made
planning social events ridiculously easy.

I haven't posted on my wall since 2013 and none of my information like age,
email, phone number, etc is public. Sure Facebook has access to all sorts of
conversations I've had over the years, but so do my local ISP's and data
centres.

For anything that I'd truly like to keep private, I use PGP, OTR or chat in
person.

~~~
gcb0
the non naive way to look at this is that you and your friends gave up a
little freedom (using open, standard and interoperative ways to communicate)
for a little convenience (proprietary controlled communication medium)

~~~
rimantas
How do they give up that freedom? Did they sign some agreement with FB never
ever use any other forms of communication / events coordination? No, they did
not. Can we just cut this kind of crap? Facebook or any other social sites did
not take away any freedoms from anyone.

~~~
wolfgke
> Facebook or any other social sites did not take away any freedoms from
> anyone.

The freedom from data being stored about the respective persons?

------
waspleg
Maybe it's because a lot of Germans have already experienced a total
surveillance state and what that means for their freedom/well being when the
information is turned against them, or, at least, remember the stories from
their relatives who did.

~~~
kuschku
Btw, I’ll suggest the movie "Das Leben der Anderen".

Even today in German schools the GDR and the Nazi time are some of the most
important topics in history class, including us visiting the places, talking
to eye witnesses, etc.

That leaves quite an impression.

------
Bud
What the story ignores, but the data makes quite clear, is that Germany is
already an outlier here, regardless of the level of education. Probably
because income is less associated with educational level in a richer, more
functional society like Germany. Also notice from the data that the difference
between educated and less-educated folks is very slight, in terms of social
media engagement.

------
venning
This is only a measure of "social media popularity of national offices of
either head of state, head of government, or government as a whole" (with
respect to national education levels) according to the original report. [1]
The report also classifies the social media strategies of various OECD
countries, but does not list Germany's. [2, right side] Perhaps the
Chancellor's office has other priorities.

[1] [http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/governa...](http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/governance/government-at-a-
glance-2015_gov_glance-2015-en#page148)

[2] [http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/governa...](http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/governance/government-at-a-
glance-2015_gov_glance-2015-en#page149)

------
cup
Germany has a unique historical relationship towards domestic spying and
intrusion. I wonder if that influences Germans attitudes towards websites that
accrue personal data.

------
doener
Germany has - after Japan - the second oldest population on the planet. Maybe
this plays a role here, too as young people almost always use at least some
social media - regardless of their level of education.

------
thetrb
I find the whole premise of this article a bit weird. It starts with "Good
news". Why is it automatically good news that educated people use social media
less?

I'm a German living in the United States and find this part of German society
pretty annoying: Being super careful about anything that could potentially
encroach on your privacy (for example see the fate of Google Street View in
Germany).

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Why is being careful about your privacy annoying?

~~~
singiht34-02
"(for example see the fate of Google Street View in Germany)"

and b/c you can't find everyone easily on facebook

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
I am not sure if that answers my question.

> _I 'm a German living in the United States and find this part of German
> society pretty annoying: Being super careful about anything that could
> potentially encroach on your privacy_

In the case of Google Maps, I understand that a non-functional application
might be annoying and at least Google makes some effort to blur data. But in
my reading of the original post, the poster is annoyed that the German
community at large has decided to exercise their rights to privacy.

~~~
thetrb
It just seems like a national pastime to post as little information about
yourself or anything you're associated with anywhere online at all. As an
expat that it makes it hard to stay in contact with many people.

It's everybody's right to do whatever they want with their personal
information, but in Germany it often gets to a point where you're being judged
if you yourself decide to post something on a social network site.

It also leads to all kind of weird regulations from the government (again, see
Street View as an example or the more recent EU-wide regulation of a minimum
age of 16 to open social network accounts).

------
a3n
I wonder if there are better and/or more alternatives to social media in
Germany than elsewhere. Maybe they're just too busy with other things, and
satisfied, to bother with social media.

------
zspitzer
Do comments on articles count as social media? The German newspaper sites
often have very active comment threads

------
gozur88
>Or is it historical? Have well-educated Germans better internalized the
lessons of German history under Nazi and communist rule?

I don't think there's any need to play amateur psychologist. From what I can
tell it's cultural from before the great "isms" of the 20th century. My
(German) relatives, who arrived in the US in the 1920s, were less likely to
share their business with non-family. That's how they were raised.

------
mschuster91
Many people I know moved their asses out of Facebook after Snowden. The NSA
did really help American companies /s

------
intopieces
Could educated Germans have read enough about the Stasi?

~~~
wolfgke
Or the Gestapo?

------
lucio
Maybe social media is seen as a waste of time? While you're reading facebook,
you're not producing anything.

~~~
treve
I think it's safe to say that it's not a matter of a recreational activity vs.
"producing something". I think it rather has to do with the fact that Germans
are very privacy conscious. Facebook (and other American application
providers) have a pretty bad rep.

~~~
kuschku
Indeed.

And, additionally, there are also those people who are still stuck on studiVZ.

------
asfandyaar
What about sites like reddit? I don't have any stats, but there seems to be a
good representation of Germans.

------
toehead2000
Scientific proof that the germans on twitter are retarded!

~~~
kuschku
Interesting idea.

Because Felix von Leitner (Fefe) has been arguing the same. Every time he
tries to discuss something, he gets long, carefully argued info via email, and
completely retarded insults via Twitter.

