
World's oldest periodic table chart found in St. Andrews - fanf2
https://news.st-andrews.ac.uk/archive/worlds-oldest-periodic-table-chart-found-in-st-andrews/
======
erk__
Brady Haran (of numberphile/sixty symbols/lots of other channels fame) made a
video about this periodic table some months ago, it goes into how it is
getting preserved as well.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eRLeS1UdPo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eRLeS1UdPo)

He also made a video discussing what is on the the table

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfC4OGbbHLc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfC4OGbbHLc)

~~~
mmastrac
Is there an update on this? I watched the first video and it was fascinating.

Edit: found this updated image after restoration

[https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2...](https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2/2019/01/KMil_PTable-1.jpg)

------
iaw
> "Treatment to the chart included: brushing to remove loose surface dirt and
> debris, separating the chart from its heavy linen backing, washing the chart
> in de-ionised water adjusted to a neutral pH with calcium hydroxide to
> remove the soluble discolouration and some of the acidity, a ‘de-
> acidification’ treatment by immersion in a bath of magnesium hydrogen
> carbonate to deposit an alkaline reserve in the paper, and finally repairing
> tears and losses using a Japanese kozo paper and wheat starch paste. "

That's a really cool process.

~~~
frogperson
Using chemistry to save chemistry's history!!

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galkk
And it's actually bears name of it's creator - Mendeleev.

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pwenzel
Anyone know what typeface is used in this table (or modern equivalent)?

~~~
da_chicken
Kapra Condensed shown here is very similar:

[https://www.fontspring.com/fonts/typoforge-
studio/kapra](https://www.fontspring.com/fonts/typoforge-studio/kapra)

------
pbhjpbhj
The article claims:

>In view of the table’s age and emerging uniqueness it was important for the
teaching chart to be preserved for future generations. //

Does it tell us anything we didn't know, doesn't appear to. So what exactly is
the value.

I'm a hoarder, and I like curios - particularly scientific ones. But, is their
really any _need_ or specific benefit in its preservation?

There's a related issue, when paintings (eg old masters) are purchased by the
public purse to "preserve them for the country" or similar. Do we really gain
anything (in the general case) if an analysis of the methods and substances
has been kept along with a digital facsimile?

It's lovely to keep old stuff, but claims of necessity always seem to be a bit
of a stretch.

~~~
apo
_Does it tell us anything we didn 't know, doesn't appear to. _

1\. Have a look at the heading under "Gruppe." It's the formula of the
element's oxide. That hasn't shown up on periodic tables for a long time. It
implies that determining the oxide formula may have been tricky for students
of the time. Today students are taught how to make any formula (not just
oxides) given the group number of the component elements.

2\. Mendeleev's name is explicitly mentioned. You also won't find that on any
modern periodic tables.

3\. The transition metals are not segregated but lumped into main groups.
Today they're separated into ten groups of their own, but the rare earths and
transuranium elements are kind of lumped together with no groups of their own.

~~~
quietbritishjim
> Have a look at the heading under "Gruppe." It's the formula of the element's
> oxide.

According to the Periodic Videos video (linked from another comment), the
reason those are there is to justify splitting the list of elements into rows
in those particular places. The reasoning today is to do with eletron shells
(I'm not a chemist but I presume that electron shells are also the root cause
of those formulae) but at the time periodic table was created electrons hadn't
yet been discovered!

~~~
apo
You are right (slaps forehead), and I was not thinking about the historical
context.

The earliest tables were based on "valence", or the ratio with which an
element tended to combine with other elements in compounds. Two of the most
consistent and easily obtained compounds are those of hydrogen and oxygen,
which nearly always combine with other "monovalent" elements in ratios of 1
and 2, respectively.

When a new element was discovered, the ratios with which it formed oxides and
hydrides could be determined, and this would allow its placement on the table.

A student from the late 1800s would only be able to think in terms of
equivalents, not electrons and their orbitals - as you point out. The
inclusion of hydride and oxide formula templates would have been an integral
part of using the table.

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dsfyu404ed
I hope once it's restored they put it on a wall somewhere beside a modern
table so people can see the progress that's been made since.

~~~
mxfh
There are some slides explaining the restoration process:

[https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/media/school-of-
chemistry/event...](https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/media/school-of-
chemistry/events-and-seminars/NBTM%202.%20Alan%20Aitken.pdf)

If you want to print a copy, I would recommend fetching the high resolution
scan of a later edition stored in Library of Kyoto University:

[https://edb.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/exhibit/kakezu/page/0653.htm...](https://edb.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/exhibit/kakezu/page/0653.html)

[https://edb.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/exhibit/kakezu/large/A207.jp...](https://edb.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/exhibit/kakezu/large/A207.jpg)

~~~
rtrsqrrl
Here is another High Res Version of the St. Andrews Chart.

[https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/1656624/r...](https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/1656624/remarkable-
discovery-in-st-andrews-of-what-could-be-worlds-oldest-periodic-table/)

[https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2...](https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2/2019/01/KMil_PTable-1.jpg)

