
How to get your money back on a non-refundable hotel - notlukesky
https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2020/03/16/how-to-get-your-money-back-on-a-non-refundable-hotel/
======
ttul
A friend just called up and said, “I feel totally fine, but I have to let you
know I am from Kirkland and I live about half a mile from the care home with
the COVID-19 outbreak. I am completely happy to come to the hotel and hang out
with your guests in the bar, or you could cancel my reservation and I’ll stay
home.”

They refunded him in full.

~~~
nsxwolf
I'd worry about getting slapped with a bioterrorism charge.

~~~
enraged_camel
I hope you are joking...

~~~
nsxwolf
"Refund my money or I will expose you and your guests to a deadly virus"

~~~
instaclay
I feel like pointing out cause and effect isn't a threat unless you're trying
to play victim to it.

* "If you run around the pool, you may slip and fall."

* "If you charge me for this stay, I will use it, and that may expose your guests to a virus."

------
OiNG
i met my non-refundable hotel half way and just asked for credits for a future
stay there. they were happy to do that and gave me a 2 year expiration.

------
Scoundreller
I see a lot of law on _Force Majeure_ being clarified over the next 12 months:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure)

Or Frustrated Contract Law:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frustration_of_purpose](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frustration_of_purpose)

And it's not just for businesses to use against consumers.

------
seanmcdirmid
Kind of related, but our daycare just shutdown for more than a month and asked
us to keep paying monthly tuition. It makes sense, the daycare workers still
need to live, but it feels kind of weird in that we have to have this burden
on our own since a lot of us are affected also.

~~~
LanceH
Is it the kind of place if you can't pay for a month they would keep watching
your kid? (serious question)

If it isn't, then you should cancel the monthly. It's pretty simple.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
If you don’t pay, you lose your place in line and there is usually a waiting
list (though with the upcoming recession, those might go away). You also don’t
endear yourself with the staff if you don’t plan on switching.

~~~
pmiller2
It’s a business relationship at the heart of it. If my business associates
can’t provide the service I’ve contracted for, that doesn’t endear me to them,
either.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Except these are people taking care of your kids during the day, it isn’t that
simple.

~~~
pmiller2
Not when they’re shut down. Requiring a full tuition payment because “wouldn’t
it be a shame if you lost your spot...” is extortionate.

~~~
cerberusss
Well, you stopped being a client. I don't find it all that strange.

~~~
LanceH
They are stopping the service. Continuing to pay is a bit crazy. Just check
what it sounds like if they write out the quid pro quo:

"Keep paying us for the service we aren't giving you or else we'll blacklist
you when service resumes."

I don't think you'll get a lot of people signing up for that.

The other risk than losing your spot is paying them and they go out of
business anyway. So you're out both the cash and the service.

------
rosybox
Just FYI, if you're lying to get out of paying for something, or to get
reimbursed on false pretenses that is called fraud and is illegal. It's also
wrong to do, it is an action taken in bad faith.

~~~
nexuist
> it is an action taken in bad faith

So is a hotel denying you a refund during an epidemic. There is an obvious
power differential here between Joe Blow and some billion dollar hotel chain.
You need the money for basic survival far more than they need it to pad their
quarterly earnings.

~~~
chadash
By booking a non-refundable rate, which is generally cheaper, you took that
risk. So long as the hotel is open, it's not really their problem. The fact
that they have more money than you doesn't give you the right to steal from
them.

If you really need the money for basic survival, fine, we can argue about the
morality of it _. But even with a possible recession looming, it 's unlikely
that the price of a hotel stay is going to be the difference between life and
death for you.

_ It's unlikely you are in basic survival mode yet, unless you've already lost
your job and are living paycheck to paycheck and there are no available
government programs to help you right now and no friends or family to turn to.

~~~
lmartel
Nonrefundable rates are not marketed as a bet against global catastrophe.
They're a commitment that you won't change your mind.

This epidemic is more similar to the hotel burning down. I would expect my
money back in that scenario and do whatever I could to retrieve it.

~~~
listenallyall
No, they are marketed as "non-refundable." As in, you don't come, you don't
get a refund. End of story.

With that said, many hotel chains and airlines have suspended their typical
non-refundable rules, so a simple phone call would likely suffice.

~~~
hrktb
You had to explain what “non-refundable” should be interpreted as. I think we
can agree different people will have different interpretations.

I’d also expect any terms in the actual ToS defining “non-refundble” to get
void in front of a judge in this specific cases if this was really pushed that
far.

------
gruez
reminds me of
[https://old.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/dk9go7...](https://old.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/dk9go7/i_cant_get_a_refund_on_my_escape_room_ok_let_me/)

------
kube-system
This sounds like a joke more than a true anecdote. Why would a hotel ask for a
reason for an extension?

~~~
irjustin
I wouldn't discount it outright. Definitely plausible - extending your stay
during this time period is weird for sure. Or you could just simply slip in
the detail specifically.

~~~
hkmurakami
Yup you could definitely add it in "special requests" asking whether it's okay
if you did this.

------
break_the_bank
Hotels usually have a more flexible cancellation policy than Airbnb.Its way
easier to find cancellation up to one day before at hotels than an Airbnb in
the same city.

Was supposed to travel to Spain last week. Had a few Airbnbs booked. When the
cases started spiking on the 2nd of March it looked like Spain was going to be
another Italy. So we cancelled our trip. Got most of our flight tickets &
hostel stay money back. Airbnb returned 50%. Spain did become like Italy was
on the 2nd of March.

~~~
jobigoud
You might want to double check with Airbnb because they have put in place a
special policy related to covid-19. I am airbnb host, we had someone scheduled
for next week. They cancelled and they got a full refund including the airbnb
service fees, even though we are normally on strict cancellation policy (50%).
They also changed the way cancellations work from the host side, we can cancel
without penalty and without loosing superhost status.

------
Emore
Or you can just ask. I emailed asking for a refund, citing corona, the (pre-
paid, non-refundable) hotel I was going to stay at for SXSW and they refunded
me the entire sum. Very impressed, and I'm sure preferable to credit card
charge backs.

------
m3kw9
I’m from Wuhan, I’d like to use your facilities.

~~~
hkmurakami
A friend's fiance literally can't come to the states to join him because she's
from Wuhan (though she lived in Shenzen). I imagine a lot of people are having
their major plans disrupted like this.

That being said this post was hilarious and I sent it to everyone :D

------
ajxs
I'd be very surprised if there was one ounce of truth to this. I've worked
implementing payment systems for large institutions. It's standard for the
existing balance of the transaction to be taken into account when an amendment
is made to a purchase that has yet to be settled.

Example: You purchase $100 worth of widgets, process the payment then 5
minutes later call up and add another $100 of widgets to your order prior to
the order being shipped. Your original purchase won't get refunded. Your order
will be amended and you'll be charged another $100 to settle the outstanding
amount. I'd be a little surprised if something as sophisticated as a hotel
booking system didn't implement a basic account ledger.

~~~
tempestn
The point is that he's implying to the hotel that he is carrying the virus,
and therefore they don't want him there, so they refunded his original
booking.

~~~
ajxs
Ha, I guess I missed the joke.

------
dreadpiratebob
Just canceled a trip to California and the reverse of this was a very real
concern. Popping positive in Cali and having no place to stay...

------
kmarlow
It is a bit surprising that the hotel would not reimburse given the global
state of affairs.

~~~
wahern
In a couple of months hotels are going to be going bankrupt left and right.
Many hotels are owned by franchisees. The difference between losing your
business and scraping by might be dictated by how well you minimize your
losses right now. Goodwill won't be worth squat when you're out of business.

------
xwdv
This could easily fail if they do not ask the reason for your extension.

~~~
__s
Just have to play it right. Slip in some details, get curious about what food
you can order to your room, etc. You can always decide some detail is a deal
breaker & not make the close

~~~
dave5104
Or just be explicit and share. "Hi, I need to extend my stay from 3 nights to
2 weeks. I'm just returning from a high risk area of Italy and need to
quarantine myself!"

~~~
graylights
"and I want to do it somewhere with a gym and pool"

------
bb88
TLDR: Use the excuse you returned from Italy and need an extension of several
days to self quarantine.

It might work now, but maybe not when hotels start catching on and requiring
proof.

~~~
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
Honestly these hotels are probably losing so much money right now that they’d
gladly take a covid patient.

~~~
Ghjklov
There's an idea there, what if we turned empty hotel rooms into covid-19 care
facilities? Then you can isolate a good number of infected in one place that
you can keep an eye on.

~~~
pmiller2
The governors of Washington and (I think) California are literally doing that.

------
fenwick67
Life hack: avoid paying for things by stealing them

------
justlexi93
Unfortunately, if you chose and booked a non-refundable hotel on any website
then "non-refundable" means just that. People often have the choice to booked
the cheaper non-refundable deal, or often a slightly higher priced one
offering Free Cancellation up until a specific time and date before arrival.
Yes, it was obviously a mistake that you didnt see/notice or read the bit
about it being non-refundable. Their Terms and Conditions will be very clear
about non-refundable and its meaning.

You can cancel it if you wish, but you will not receive a refund. I think its
the hotels themselves who set the rules for their hotels deals, either non-
refundable or Free Cancellation.

------
lkhatter
This is hilarious!

------
jbkiv
I love that hack! Very clever

