
Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says - kgwgk
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/08/02/uber-drivers-gang-cause-surge-pricing-research-says/
======
mikeash
Obvious in hindsight. This sort of thing is inevitable any time you have dumb
software on one side and humans on the other side.

I'm mostly a fan of these non-taxi "taxi" services, but it seems like they are
slowly and painfully rediscovering why taxis ended up so regulated in the
first place.

~~~
bbarn
Yeah, I'm mostly not a fan, now that we're a few years in. Waves of people
inexperienced, untrained in shuttling people around a major metro have
resulted in downtown Chicago being an utter mess compared to only a few years
ago. Chicago forced cab drivers to go through a training and certification
course that at least forced them to understand the major routes and grid
system we're on, and every time I've been in an uber they are completely
tethered to their phones nav systems.

So, now we've got an army of drivers who can't drive, don't know where they
are going, playing with their phones all day. It makes for an unpleasant
experience whether you're on a bike, driving you car, or sometimes just
walking across the street.

~~~
toast0
I used to think cabs were terrible drivers, but most of them (especially in
heavily regulated markets) are very experienced drivers and simply disregard
rules of the road that are inconvenient for them.

In contrast, 'ride sharing' drivers seem to have no sense of direction, and
are genuinely oblivious to the rules of the road.

In short, when in either type of car, I fear for my life.

~~~
mikeash
That's interesting. I wonder if this is a regional thing, or just different
personal experiences. For me, I've never had a particularly bad Uber driver,
but I've had incredibly bad taxi drivers. (My favorite was the guy who decided
that driving down I-395 in Arlington was a good time to catch up on some
paperwork. He kept the cab on the road, but only by using all three lanes.
Thankfully it was about 2AM and nobody else was using them.)

While driving, I tend to fear for my life when taxis are around, but whenever
I spot an Uber or Lyft car, they seem to behave unremarkably.

~~~
8ytecoder
There's also the other side of the problem that you don't get to see as a
passenger. Uber/Lyft drivers in a rush to get to their pickups drive like
maniacs here in SF. I'm from a developing country and I'm used to drivers who
disregard rules but even those pay attention to the surroundings - you can
read them and know if they are going to yield or not. But having gotten used
to the polite driving of SF a few years ago, I find it quite dangerous to walk
my dog out now. I stick to interior roads and wait till I know for sure that
the car would yield for me before I cross. Driving and Biking have become
usually miserable as well.

My only request is that passengers don't encourage this by blindly rating
everyone 5 stars. Take _at least_ two star off for unsafe driving - not
stopping at a stop sign, not yielding to pedestrians, not giving enough space
while passing a bicyclist and _at least_ one star for not following the rules
- driving on the bus lane, double parking in the middle of a busy road,
driving too fast on a 25Mph zone, not waiting long enough for the pedestrians
to pass safe ...etc.

If the economics don't work out for the drivers, the fare has to go up. By
keeping the fare artificially low and pushing drivers to accommodate too many
trips Uber and Lyft are ruining the experience for everyone and in doing so
are perpetuating the need for more people to use them instead of considering
alternate transport modes. This, sooner or later, will ruin it for everyone.

Take it from me, America cannot handle a developing country style traffic. It
requires a different set of skills. People here are used to predictable
traffic.

~~~
smsm42
Never had an Uber driver driving like maniac. To be sure, I live to the south
of SF and try to never drive into SF unless I absolutely have to, and when I
do, I pretty much expect developing-country-type driving environment. But I
may just be spoiled by suburbia-type traffic patterns. In any case, even SF
Uber drivers has always been excellent for me. I realize that's anecdata, so I
wonder if somebody did any kind of robust survey of this.

------
cpsempek
During a fare, an uber driver told me that when he goes to an area with lots
of drivers, he will turn off his app for a minute or so to artificially
decrease the number of drivers in the area. If this is practiced by multiple
drivers repeatedly, the result can cause a surge. He told me that he does
this, and, that he holds training sessions where he teaches this practice to
other drivers, among other things. I do not know if this was actually
effective or if it still is.

~~~
jbob2000
This is easy for Uber to fix. The surge (or the calculation of drivers) just
needs to be delayed by 15mins or so. He can still turn off his app, but now
he'll have to do it for more than 15mins, thus potentially losing 1 or 2
rides.

~~~
avn2109
Uber presumably takes a fixed cut of the fare, so they have at least some
incentive to look the other way during surge collusion. If the drivers do it
simultaneously to both Lyft and Uber then both companies will be happy to see
this going on.

~~~
arihant
As far as I know, Uber does not take a cut on surge pricing. The extra money
goes straight to the driver.

------
PinguTS
People game the system. Always. Have learned that for years when it comes to
safety systems.

Even uneducated people become very intelligent when it comes to gaming the
system to their advantage. It is always a cat and rat game between technical
adjustments and when people find a way to game the system again.

~~~
losteverything
This.

People learned the phone company would refund any Denied All Knowledge of a
long distance call. Call up, get a credit.

Then phone company said you cant DAK calls 2 months in a row: so customers
called in every other month.

Then, they eliminated operator handled calls for small bills. Call in, get an
IVR, get a credit.

Phone company caught on and limited credits to $7 per month, every other
month.

Customers started crediting <$7...

And on and in...cat and mouse.

Then, few realized you only had to pay 91% of the past due balance to not get
shut off..

Others finally realized that if your account gets associated with a elected
federal official or a PUC complaint you account will never get treated for
collections.

\--- Another simple one: having to press "0" 3 times to get to an agent on
some IVRs..

~~~
obsurveyor
Say "agent" has always gotten me a real person when the 0 or the */# buttons
don't work.

~~~
gertef
"operator operator fuck fuck fuck" usually works.

------
aianus
The first guy to log back in (or the guy who doesn't log off at all) wins the
game to the detriment of the others, limiting the extent of this practice.

You can't have a successful oligopoly when there's no barrier to entry.

~~~
CodeWriter23
It takes more than one ride dispatch to quell the surge. I've watched bar/club
closings stay in surge for 30 minutes while cars stream in to pick up riders.
I personally have given 5 surge rides in a row, albeit short rides, just by
picking up at a particular hot spot, getting a local, drop them off, go
offline, return to hot spot, wash, rinse, repeat.

~~~
frandroid
> go offline

So you're priming the surge pump, so to speak, since you know where the ride
requests will be anyway.

~~~
CodeWriter23
Actually it's the opposite. When I drop off outside of the surge zone and go
back to that zone to make a pickup inside, that helps quell the surge in that
hot spot. I've never noticed surging in the neighborhoods I just left when I
go back online. If I stayed online in the neighborhoods, I would likely get
dispatched around the drop off point, prolonging the surge at the bar.

~~~
frandroid
Ahhh I see.

So I notice your username, and I'm wondering; are you both a developer and an
Uber driver? Are you practicing both jobs at a time?

------
pgeorgep
Sounds like a nice little loophole the drivers found to make a few extra
bucks. It's always interesting to me when people find little tricks they can
do the bend an algo their direction.

This reminds me a lot of the LinkedIn algo hacks that's driving me nuts right
now. If you post super long form, cheesy, generic paragraphs of text with no
links/visuals - you get massive exposure. The result has been superficial
posts filling up my feed talking about who knows what.

Much like the nuisance of a pricing surge on Uber, these algo hacks can be a
real pain.

~~~
jxramos
lol, looks like two can play at that game...

"Separate research at Northeastern University has previously found passengers
can game surge pricing with simple tricks such as waiting five minutes or
crossing the road."

I know I've waited out twenty minutes or so to bypass the surge or at least
dampen the surge to a rate I was comfortable with. Sort of becomes an auction
experience at that point.

------
ph0rque
So, they are forming an algorithmic flash union? Nice...

------
EGreg
I am currently talking with Warren Mosler about implementing Unconditional
Basic Income in local communities (Hi @sama! :)

Cartels is the main danger with unconditional basic income. If you make sure
everyone can eat, you create a moral hazard, where the insured are not
sensitive to price anymore. Having said that, we already have means-tested
welfare and food stamps, and cartels of fruit stores don't spontaneously
appear everywhere. However, they may appear in food deserts and other places
where there aren't a lot of participants. Competition is the only factor I can
think of to combat this. But in some areas with few participants, this
collusion can ultimately happen.

And then of course there is this result:
[https://www.arxiv.org/abs/1201.3798v2](https://www.arxiv.org/abs/1201.3798v2)

Does anyone here have constructive thoughts on how to overcome this problem?
Price controls and collective bargaining via single payer is all I can think
of besides competition.

~~~
abakker
Competition in this case is really a proxy for choice. UBI should rationally
be about promoting the ability for consumers to choose how to spend money,
rather than being constrained to have no choices due to lack of resource. to
solve the problem you are describing, people still need to have the self-
interest to make good decisions, and the willingness to carry them out.

If consumers won't shop around, or make price sensitive decisions, then the
market for the good in question becomes price insensitive. But, I think UBI is
attractive primarily because it doesn't seek to tell people how to spend their
money, or tell them what the right choices are. As an alternative to welfare,
it should allow consumer preferences to play a greater part in the market.

~~~
EGreg
The problem with UBI versus, let's say, single payer, is that _buyers compete_
and therefore drive up price. In short they "defect" from the price the other
buyers pay.

Think about _patio_ and his posts in the past about increasing your rates.
That's how it happens.

When you have insurance, then the buyer and seller can join forces to raise
prices - that's called a moral hazard.

~~~
abakker
buyers competing is OK, though, right? I was under the impression that the
justification for UBI was to attack the ability to pay, which some people
lack, rather than the outcome of what they pay for.

The "problem" that UBI has vs single payer is that it is not creating a
command economy, but leveling the playing field in a capitalist one. If you
want a single payer, you don't want a UBI, you want communism. If you want
UBI, you are OK with market forces, but are using a single lever to attempt to
correct for a market failure in the most "libertarian" way possible.

The only way single payer really succeeds is if you curtail consumer choice in
order to achieve efficiency in what you buy - the single payer doesn't
understand all the possibilities in the market. This is maybe a reasonable
thing to do in sub-markets, like prescription medication, but is not such a
great idea if you do it to the entire market.

If all buyers buy the same thing naturally, the price will go up, yes, but in
the long run, production should also go up. If you just put a price control on
it, there will always be a short supply, and too much unmet demand, even if
the price for those who do manage to get the good is a great deal.

~~~
EGreg
Not really.

Communism is more than just "to everyone according to his need". It is also
"from everyone according to his ability." And it talks about collective
ownership of the means of production, and other stuff. To a great extent, the
public stock market is collective ownership of corporations, which is far
better than what Marx had in mind.

BUT

This is not about labels. This is about designing systems that work, vs
systems that have major issues.

The major issue with UBI is inflation. There is no way around it. Everyone
gets X every day. This X is spent into the economy, primarily on necessities.
They are not sensitive to price increases because X is indexed to inflation,
otherwise what's the point?

So, stores raise prices and people go ahead and pay anyway. And so every
sector competes with every other to raise prices before the other sector takes
more of the UBI money than they do.

It is a moral hazard.

Now, with single payer systems, the doctor has a choice: accept Medicare, with
the prices it offers, or not. It's attractive to accept Medicare because you
get a lot of patients who would otherwise not pay you.

This DOES NOT MEAN the consumer can't choose the doctor, school, or anything
else. It just means there is collective bargaining for prices.

And btw you benefit from this all the time. Look at Amazon squeezing
publishers - stories on HN all the time about this. Or Apple's App Store
having rules for developers. Or Google's rules for web publishers, making them
make responsive sites. And so on.

Libertarians think "the government" is just one entity. But every organization
has a management structure. Eventually we may have decentralized protocols
like scuttlebutt etc. that change this paradigm. But for now, we have
organizations all over the place and when most consumers are on Facebook, etc.
they do in fact squeeze publishers.

~~~
abakker
I don't disagree with most of what you wrote, but, IMO UBI is not a moral
hazard generator. Just because you get the money doesn't incentivize you to
not care about prices. It may make you less sensitive to prices, but it will
need to be budgeted nonetheless. If it were infinite UBI, then yes, a free
source of infinite money would create a situation where buyers are shielded
from rising prices and thus don't care about them.

UBI is NOT insurance, though, and so it is difficult to argue that a limited
income, even if free, creates a moral hazard that would truly cause people to
no longer budget for things, any more than a salary makes you price
insensitive. The quantity of the UBI seems to be the relevant factor, I guess.

------
btreesOfSpring
I remember dealing with the emergency IT issues that popped up with our NYC
offices after hurricane Sandy wrought havoc upon much of lower Manhattan's
power grid. We were lights out for at least three days. Had to take lots of
taxis to move hardware to places with electricity. Even if we wanted to be
creative, the subway was certainly not a transportation option and foot was
wight prohibitive. The pickup rules for taxi's were suspended during this
emergency period. Taxis could pickup fares mid-ride, turn down any rider going
to a undesirable destination, & charge whatever they thought they could get.
Lucky for me, despite all other storm-born chaos, I was in a sweet spot for
where taxis were more than happy to drive. Even so, seeing the number of
people who were turned down for their destinations or who in turn declined a
ride because of the driver chosen price hike was fascinating; a sort of real-
time, impromptu emergent market in infancy rapidly growing into maturity.

So not to say that these ride share services have moved to remove all these
kinds of consumer protections that clearly were quickly dropped and exploited
once they were removed due to the state of emergency but to a large extent, I
feel like I had the chance to experience the larger forces of gamification
that would happen if these protections were removed and circumstances were
ripe for profit. Overall I am very happy with the changes ride sharing
services have brought to supplement transportation options but there are
certainly a lot more of these bumps and kinks to be worked out if these
businesses hope to avoid a wave of government regulation.

------
reaperducer
Don't need to do much research. Just read the Uber driver fora. They talk
about it openly.

Still, even with a huge surge, Uber is 1/2 to 1/10th the price of a cab in my
city.

~~~
yawz
_> Still, even with a huge surge, Uber is 1/2 to 1/10th the price of a cab in
my city._

This summarizes why the model would continue to work. It's similar to low-cost
airlines: most of us hate them, but most of us still use them.

~~~
volkk
Main difference being uber is literally the same experience compared to a
regular cab (most of the time), whereas a low cost airline is horribly
uncomfortable (read: spirit) and charges for everything.

------
mannykannot
This is as economically rational as surge pricing itself.

------
ChuckMcM
It seems to me this happens more frequently when the employer / employee
relationship is perceived to be adversarial by the employee.

~~~
habosa
This. As soon as you have an adversarial relationship between buyer/seller (of
any good, not just labor) all the bad behaviors come out.

A prime example of this is the airlines. Southwest and Virgin have somehow
convinced staff and passengers to be polite to each other, so boarding and
other things go smoothly. The same flight for the same price on United or
American is a mess of elbowing and passive agressiveness.

~~~
kentosi
Passive "aggression".

Also, would this be mostly BigCo vs SmallCo culture difference? United and
American are kinda massive ...

------
gmisra
Price hacking is the new growth hacking, these drivers are truly disrupting a
regulatory regime that limits their freedom.

------
iamleppert
A simple solution to this would be to simply limit the number of times one can
log in and out per day to something reasonable, or to place limits on the
frequency etc.

~~~
gregorymichael
If you ask Uber drivers if they enjoy it, the #1 thing you'll hear is "it's
flexible." They're willing to put up with all the other bullshit -- the low
pay, the lack of benefits -- for the feeling of control. Chip away at that and
bad things will happen.

------
GauntletWizard
How is this unethical? This is the exact point of these marketplaces - The
drivers are saying "I won't accept a fare at these levels", Uber is responding
by raising the price (and it's pretty transparent to consumers - The whole
point of "surge pricing" is to incentivize drivers that would otherwise not be
on the road). The multiplier framework is pretty clear upfront when you're
paying more.

This sounds like a fix to one of my major complaints about Uber. The prices
are _too low_. I like cheap rides, but I also like knowing that the people who
are giving me rides (and providing me services, selling me goods, making those
goods, etc) are making living wages.

And, to some level - This is collective bargaining. This is precisely what
Unionists want, without all of the mess involved in actual unions. The drivers
are collectively demanding higher wages, and Uber is responding.

On the other hand: There's a good reason we're seeing this pushback. Uber is a
shitty, predatory company, and has relentlessly worked to drive down driver
wages well beyond sustainable rates. (It's also a shitty company to it's full
time employees, to which I will attest.)

------
mabey
Yup. Last week I left a Dodgers game in about the eighth inning, and there was
a huge parking lot full of Ubers and tons of people were standing around
waiting but couldn't find drivers. The drivers wait until the game ends and
the masses exit so that the real surge pricing kicks in.

~~~
loceng
I wonder what, if any, ways are there to counter this kind of behaviour?

~~~
rectang
Driving for Lyft/Uber in traffic jams is economically unrewarding, because the
fee schedule is tilted towards per-distance-unit and the per-minute fees are a
pittance. Raising the per-minute fees would incentivize drivers to take fares
which are currently not worthwhile rather than wait for surge pricing.

However, drivers do not set the per-minute pricing -- that's the rideshare
company's prerogative.

------
tyingq
I'm somewhat surprised no app has popped up to be the driver private peer to
peer network. For chat, news, stats, and automating things like this.

~~~
freeone3000
Traditional means of communication seem to be sufficient, between driver
forums and whatsapp groups.

------
gertef
Surge pricing is technologically archaic, and really has been since the start.
Uber should be running instant automated auctions like stock market and webads
do.

------
bozoUser
I use Uber pass fairly regular on my commute to work. One other minor
unrelated thing I have seen is if the commute is within < 1-2 miles the drive
ends up giving you a bad rating (not that ratings matter to me) but uber has
no way to screen this fake rating. I made sure I was at the pick up point well
before the car arrived, and minded my own business throughout the ride.

On talking to couple of drivers on a few occasions they confessed that they do
this to filter out folks asking for lower mile rides!!

edit: This is obviously not in high uber/lyft density zone like a downtown SF
where one can assume most of the rides endup being in the 2 mile radius.

~~~
mtl_usr
It should be pretty easy to filter out, given that there will be a very strong
correlation between length of the drive and rating.

Passenger rating does matter when it comes to how fast you are getting your
ride.

------
nikon
I suspect this happens in London. I always take a "Gett" (fixed price black
cab) if so, and it's usually the same price / cheaper and they know how to
drive.

------
kgdinesh
Uber Drivers in India have been doing this since 2015.

~~~
cctan
What did Uber in India do about it? Does it affect the prices that much and
frequently?

~~~
calvinbhai
Why would Uber do anything about it? Its in Uber's interests to not solve it.
They get more money no? Same with its competitor in India, Ola.

~~~
johndoe90
This will be beneficial up to some point in the future, when riders decide to
boycott Uber.

~~~
calvinbhai
Well, this driver behavior will exist in all platforms and won't be in any
platform's interest to solve it. Be it Uber, Lyft, Ola, Grab etc.

------
CodeWriter23
I saw scrawled on the wall in one of the port-a-potties in the LAX TNC lot,
"No Surge, No Drive".

Uber went on a campaign of hiring cabbies. I guess the fact that cabbies
congregate and organize completely eluded Uber management.

~~~
qq66
Not to mention, cabbies are often socially, ethnically, and even often
genetically connected with each other, making the penalties for noncompliance
high. If you're spotted driving when you're supposed to be boycotting for a
surge, you may find yourself getting dirty looks from your roommates, your
friends, and even your family.

------
qrbLPHiKpiux
Uber is such a hot mess - with everything - it's fascinating to watch it all.

------
afinlayson
Uber is being disputed by what sounds like the Uber of unionizing. Ohh the
irony.

------
rch
This sounds a good control systems approach that provides drivers with an
indirect way to influence pricing. If Uber decides to 'out' cheaters somehow,
then I'd worry about coercion by other drivers.

------
ada1981
Good for them. Someone should build an app they can run that automatically
logs them in and out to maximize pricing.

Though I imagine it wouldn't be hard for Uber to implement some basic security
to thwart it.

~~~
briandear
And if prices are high, customers will seek alternatives. So it could
backfire.

Also, this practice is illegal as it amounts to price fixing/collision. These
are all independent businesses conspiring to raise prices. These aren’t
employees of the same company – they are independent contractors which means
they are separate businuess entities from each other which means they are
committing a crime.

Collusion is a crime and that’s exactly what these separate business entities
(who happen to have Uber as a customer) are doing.

~~~
briandear
To the down voters.. is this not collusion? We are all welcome to our own
opinions, but facts are what they are: businesses conspiring to force prices
higher is the very diffenition of collusion. The size of the entity makes no
difference under the law.

~~~
rectang
I'm not a downvoter, but I see your analysis as extremely uncharitable to
drivers. If bringing down the weight of the justice system on individual
drivers is a logical consequence of structuring rideshare as individual
businesses, that argues for reclassifying them as employees.

EDIT: Full disclosure -- I drive for Lyft part-time. I have not participated
in the gaming described in this article.

------
johnhenry
The article implies that this is an active, coordinated effort; but I have to
wonder if any of this is/could be an emergent phenomenon based on the
existence of the surge pricing algorithm.

~~~
dawnerd
I think some of the surge times are built in. At WDW it's on the dot when the
parks close. There will be tons of drivers on the map too. Uber (and Lyft)
know that a all the people they shuttled in for cheap in the morning will need
a ride home and didn't plan an alternative.

~~~
GlickWick
I suspect it's less hard-coded and more a case of the algorithm realizing that
there's a huge influx of riders every day at X location at Y time, and just
auto-surges until there are a number of days without said influx. It's
important to build a surging algorithm this way, as otherwise you'll have an
awkward period of low prices with high demand that ends up losing you money in
the long run.

------
sgroppino
Take one or two stars off the rating of the trip depending on the amount of
the surcharge. That seems to be the only way to fight back as a consumer.

------
bagacrap
Doesn't uber itself game the surge pricing? That is, they'll show you surge
prices more often if you have shown a tendency to accept them.

~~~
xenadu02
I haven’t seen any proof but it seems like Lyft does this. I almost never
accept surge prices and I absolutely will never accept anything beyond 1.5x.
Often if I leave the app open or check back 30 seconds later it will lower the
surge rate.

It makes sense if you think about it: giving people who won’t pay surge prices
a ride anyway makes drivers scarcer for those who will pay, raising surge
prices even further.

I’m pretty sure that surge pricing outside a narrow range will eventually be
made illegal. It makes too many people too angry and they’d rather get on a
car waiting list than see a 3x price. You can argue the economics all you like
but people are irrational.

~~~
gertef
Drivers are liquidity providers. If you are willing to wait, you can wait for
a lower price.

------
frandroid
I don't really buy Uber's denial. They can profit from this; knowing their
ethical framework, you'd think they're encourage it.

------
kusmi
When it happened to me I immediately filed complaint asking for a refund, and
they issued it very quickly with an apology.

------
659087
Uber drivers are just trying to mimic the sort of behavior the company they
"work" for is so well known for.

------
erikb
_edit_ Supporting comment apparently wasn't appreciated. No delete button.

~~~
briandear
It’s voluntary. If it becomes unprofitable, drivers leave. If they lose money,
they won’t do it.

They give a share to Uber because Uber is their lead generation. Many
businesses give a share of their money to Google because Google brings them
business.

An Uber driver can market their own business and keep all the money if they
want just like a business could go out and market without using AdWords.

If you are unhappy with the pay Uber drivers make, you are welcome to pay
whatever you want. It’s called a tip. Hand the driver cash for whatever amount
you think compensates for the “exploitation” you imply (and are enabling by
your own admission.) Otherwise, choose another transportation option and the
market will respond.

I rarely hear anti-Uber people demand that supermarkets charge more for
tomatoes despite those that pick tomatoes working in extremely tough
conditions for low pay. I used to drive a taxi for a summer and I know it’s a
non-stop hustle and not the best job, but I was at least in an air conditioned
car listening to the radio all day and not out in the fields picking fruits
and vegetables. It ended up being a low profit pursuit, so I ended up moving
on to something else.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for people that do jobs like Uber because
they, with some moderate ambition, could improve their lot – they already own
a car, they could make deals with local companies that send lots of people to
airports, for example. They could work on building an actual business while
they pay the bills with their Uber income – just as an example. Still other
drivers might start a mobile car wash service for other Uber drivers, etc.
There are plenty of ways to evolve past depending on Uber as one’s sole
income. But most people aren’t ambitious at all – they just want to just do
what they’re told and collect a check no matter how meager. Other drivers use
Uber for extra income or it’s a transitional job.

Any driver thinking they will make a career out of Uber is a fool. If they
don’t like the conditions, they should be working hard and to create something
of their own. It doesn’t take much money, but it takes ambition.

~~~
rectang
> But most people aren’t ambitious at all

It also takes sufficient life-situation stability, good health, and so on.
Shaming people for lacking "ambition" is neither universally appropriate nor
universally effective.

EDIT: I didn't originally upvote the parent comment, but I now have. I think
there's a very interesting debate to be had when we consider individuals as
economic actors. Disadvantaging individual participants in the "gig economy"
too aggressively (e.g. by prosecuting Uber drivers for collusion) forces us
towards solutions like unionization by dividing us into privileged capital and
downtrodden labor. I'd like to talk more about we might empower individual
actors (e.g. by improving the social "safety net" and making the job market
more fluid).

------
johndoe90
Might be a coincidence, but lately I've noticed the same thing in Russia.

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baby_wipe
As the price for an Uber increases, the number of people who want a ride will
decrease, resulting in less business for the drivers.

