
Doudou Linux – For children from 2 to 12 years old - Sykox
http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/index.html
======
glaberficken
I used to have this on a USB key for my daughter from age 2 to 5 (she is now
6).

The UX was terrible, full of inconsistencies, with different icon symbols in
different positions from application to application to close windows, confirm
menu choices etc.

But my daughter loved it to bits =) Some games are a lot of fun for a toddler.

And guess what, I think the struggle she experienced with the inconsistent UI
may have been the best "school" she could have had for "real world" UIs.

At 6yo she is now completely autonomous navigating a Windows environment and
any of the multitude of "Frankenstein" UIs I throw at her.

Might even revisit it now for the 1st grade level games I remember she
couldn't play back then.

------
willvarfar
I tried Doudou, and then Qimo, and finally gave up and gave my kids xubuntu.

The sad truth is that the childrens games like Childs Play are sad stale games
with hopeless UIs and glaring bugs like mislabelled animals in quizzes and
things.

I have lots of feedback from watching my kids learning to use and play with
Doudou and Qimo; even though it is several years ago now, I think - from
looking at the screenshots - that nothing much has changed :(

[http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/19500788060/my-
te...](http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/19500788060/my-tech-savvy-
generation)

I hope there are modern set of games produced, but I'd imagine they'd be
better served over http into the browser than as native apps.

~~~
vanderZwan
I think the another issue with most of these "for kids" environments is that
they have low ceilings of mastery. You know, like the "low barrier to entry,
high ceiling" principle of Smalltalk? Usually because of some misguided desire
to shelter them and keep them safe.

Also, I started out on DOS at the age of six, with the left-over computer my
parents had after they upgraded the server at work. It had two hard drives of
a whopping 40mb! Anyway, the neighbours next door had a slightly older son who
explained to me how cd, copy, mkdir, del, etc. worked and he gave me a bunch
of games via floppy disks. I didn't understand everything (this was before I
spoke English, so no idea what the "park" command referred to or why it was
important), nor knew _why_ everything worked, or understood why some games
didn't quite work when copied to the hard drive (because I didn't copy the sub
folders) but I managed. Wanting to play games is a good motivator to learn any
interface.

Based on Sugata Mitra's experiments, I'd say as an individual I wasn't
exceptional in any way; give a group of kids a computer _without_ an
artificially low ceiling and watch them go! The circumstances I was in might
have been unusual at the time, but that's different.

[https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_...](https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves)

We shouldn't underestimate the abilities of children to figure out how
computers work.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
>I think the another issue with most of these "for kids" environments is that
they have low ceilings of mastery

A modern GUI OS for adults has a very low ceiling of mastery. I don't know why
we need to make simpler designs. When my kid was literally fourteen or fifteen
months he could pick up a phone or tablet, swipe to the youtube app, press it,
and then press the thumbnails from a recently viewed video and watch videos
(usually Peppa Pig).

Kids don't need dumbed down displays. We already have dumbed down displays for
adults. This reminds me of why the OLPC failed so badly. Even ignoring the
cheap netbook competition, the interface was too 'top down' academic crap
about 'how kids think' and involved a lot of shoddy assumptions on how to
teach kids how to use a computer. A netbook with XP was perfectly usable by
even the very young.

I was 6 or so I could use my parent's TRS-80 and was writing fun little BASIC
programs with it. I think we need to give kids more credit here. They're much
smarter than we think and its adult hubris to pretend they're so unintelligent
and unable to figure things out on their own. Perhaps we shouldn't shy away
from overly-challenging kids. The recent trends of 'soft' and 'helicopter'
parenting cannot be good for the long run. I plan to be somewhat tough with my
son because I don't want him to grow up into some of the people I work with
who have near zero self-learning and critical thinking skills and have a 'give
me fish' mentality and will actively fight against a 'teach me to fish'
mentality.

~~~
vanderZwan
> _Kids don 't need dumbed down displays. We already have dumbed down displays
> for adults._

Highly relevant to this statement (which I fully agree with):

[http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi...](http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/)

------
avar
As the parent of a 1 year old, this looks great, can the content filtering be
disabled, since this is a Live CD?

I wonder if there's any evidence whatsoever for content filtering actually
being useful for children's development, as opposed to just reinforcing
societal squeamishness.

The example they have[1] on their page is blocking the DuckDuck go result for
"sex", whose first result is the Wikipedia article.

I really can't imagine why a child who's developed enough to search for that
on their own isn't ready to read about it. To the extent that the parent needs
to be around to explain things to the child I don't see how that needs to be
done for sex in particular, as opposed to say economics.

1\.
[http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/documentation-7/advan...](http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/documentation-7/advanced-
tools/article/parental-controls.html)

~~~
rikkus
I'm certainly not letting my 2 year old on the Internet without me sitting
next to her, so I'd want the filters disabled too. I am the filter.

------
mwfunk
From their "Translator's FAQ" (which I think is meant for volunteers to help
with localization):

"How should I tell to pronounce DoudouLinux?

In French and Chinese it is pronounced “doodoolinux”. However as the word
“doodoo” has a weird meaning in slang American English, we recommend English-
speakers to say it as if it was an English word, the way they prefer to say
it. We also ask to not write “doodoolinux” at all to avoid any confusion
(except here!). Of course if pronouncing the word the French way has no awful
meaning in your language, please tell to use this pronunciation."

I'm not sure I understand what they mean by "say it as if it was an English
word" though.

* [http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/contribute/translate-...](http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/contribute/translate-doudoulinux/article/translator-s-faq.html#1.11)

~~~
hollander
Starting out with a name that has a weird meaning in English - not a good
idea. It's difficult to find a name that sounds good in all languages and has
no offending meaning, but it's not impossible.

~~~
aoloe
They probably started small, found a cute name in French, for their French
users. (and there is nothing cuter than a doudou! try to google it!)

They even give a solution for the sensitive Americans: call it "dow dow" and
forget about how is pronounced in French.

~~~
slau
"Doudou" is French/Dutch for a child's blankie (security blanket).

~~~
S4M
I don't know about Dutch, but "Doudou" can also be used in French for "Teddy
bear".

------
jbb555
I think we should define a low level learning virtual machine. Basically
something like a C64 but updated to be a bit more modern. Have a virtual 4
core CPU that runs a fake machine code, have memory mapped IO so that you can
put a pixel on a screen by writing a byte to memory, you can read a mouse
position from a fixed memory address etc.

You could make it more advanced by using the IO. We could define things like a
3d graphics interface by defining virtual registers that take commands.
Pretend hardware instead of an API.

Basically a fake blank computer for learning fun stuff on that's a bit more
modern than an old spectrum of C64 but still (emulated) basic hardware and no
layers or libraries...

Perhaps if it became popular people might create the actual hardware... Hmm, I
might make one :P

~~~
vanderZwan
Pico-8 is pretty much exactly what you're talking about, including having
hardware for it.

[http://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php](http://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php)

[https://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip](https://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip)

------
maruhan2
Personally i don't understand why you need a 7 and under child to use a
computer. And 7 year olds pick up computer just as quickly as an adult would
if they used computers for the first time

~~~
cJ0th
Probably even quicker than an adult from my point of view. But then again,
computers were much simpler in my childhood days. As an aside: It still bugs
me that I don't have anymore access to this kind of fearless, joyfull learning
today.

~~~
peller
> It still bugs me that I don't have anymore access to this kind of fearless,
> joyfull learning today.

What do you mean by this? Would something like Arduino not fall under that
category in your view?

~~~
cJ0th
What I mean is: If I would pick up Arduino now I'd fail to make rapid
progress.

Over the years it became harder and harder for me to just innocently interact
with a new domain. I've acquired so many mental frameworks that clutter up my
thinking.

If I run into a problem nowadays I'd frequently resort to reading things up
(instead of joyful playing around). And this, of course, would only happen
after I spend an enormous amount of time finding the best material and so on.
Or I'd wonder from time to time whether Arduino actually is something for me
and think about how else I could spend my time more usefully.

The reasons may sound silly but they are very real.

~~~
peller
Nah I struggle through similar reasons. I think most people do; it's hard not
to when there's practically infinite access to information. For me at least, I
find it's a matter of just diving in with a slight "f*ck it" attitude - if I
later find out I didn't start with the "best" material, or that something
doesn't interest me as much as I thought it would, I try to just cut my losses
and move on. Personally, I find that "joyful learning sensation" is more a
matter of mental perspective than anything else. For what it's worth :)

------
gkya
I'd refrain from letting my infant kid (I don't have one) use a computer. I've
first seen one when I was 11 (about 2000) and I'm just fine with computers
now. Plus, I've been able to play outside, run around, climb trees etc. It is
a question of predisposition, not how early you've started with computers.

------
LeoPanthera
Is Edubuntu dead? No updates in over a year.
[https://www.edubuntu.org](https://www.edubuntu.org)

------
partycoder
Reminds me a bit of the One Laptop Per Child project, which according to some
people is a little bit defunct. They produced a distro called Sugar
([https://www.sugarlabs.org](https://www.sugarlabs.org)) that might be worth
looking into.

Now tablets have largely overcome laptops as an inexpensive computing device
for children.

EDIT: not defunct as people let me know. thanks for pointing this out.

~~~
oever
> which according to some people is a little bit defunct

The blog is active. [http://blog.laptop.org/](http://blog.laptop.org/)

> Now tablets have largely overcome laptops as an inexpensive computing device
> for children.

Children get exposed to horrible devices a lot. The One Laptop Per Child
project gives children a device that is sturdy, energy efficient, easy to
repair, and comes with full editable source code and no ties to brainwashing
data thieves like Google and Facebook.

~~~
partycoder
Agreed. And tablets are very opaque too, UIs hide all the internals and don't
leave much to learn... as opposed to early home computers like the ZX
Spectrum, which exposed people to programming right away.

~~~
pjmlp
True, but in this regard iPads are actually quite good when compared with the
alternatives.

Granted, kids will need their parents to install them the apps, but there are
quite a few to play around with programming.

For example Pythonista.

And Apple now even is investing into it with the Playgrounds, of course not
out of kindness, but also to get children hooked on Swift.

Then I would put Windows tablets on second, because most of them are hybrid
computers, so there are some options there.

On Android parents are stuck with AIDE or apps that feel like people bundling
text input fields with an eval button over the weekend. So nothing really
appropriate here and 100% in sync with your remark.

------
mhd
Where does this mention home schooling?

~~~
Sykox
Sorry buddy!

I am member of group called Alt India (Stands for Alternative Education in
India) And focus on home schooling

I got the mail from them titled home schooler OS and i thoought to share it
here. Here is the original text:

This is a homeschooler's must. Every homeschooler should have a copy - and use
it!

It is the future of computing...

Download, burn a DVD, use and distribute freely without the fear - and
embarrassment - of stealing software and passing it around, unethically!

​It also teaches our children not to e-steal...anything!​ from: muriel&mario'
anothergoa@gmail.com Reply-To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com

~~~
mhd
Ah, okay. Was just surprised because of the French origins of this
distribution (AFAIK home schooling isn't an issue in highly secular France).

~~~
vertex-four
I'm aware of a small but thriving home ed community in France - tying home
education exclusively to fundamentalist religion is something that's pretty
much only a US thing.

~~~
Sykox
Oh no! there is small but growing community in India too. I myself am a
homeschooler and now more and more people want their kids homeschooled

------
jonbarker
What does the research on computer literacy (if any) say about the appropriate
time to introduce these things? I don't think a five year old will be
tremendously behind. UI literacy probably comes from mapping UIs to things you
are familiar with in the real world. Command line literacy comes from knowing
how to read, type, and organize information.

~~~
alan_cx
No idea about research, but my youngest first started playing with a smart
phone at about 9 months. Yes, really.

After about a month he could unlock it and launch games. Soon progressed to
finding YouTube videos of preschool songs for the alphabet, colours, shapes,
etc. He is now 5, and can happily search google for things like mine craft
hacks, which he can easily apply, and his current hobby is installing old
skool operating systems on Oracle VM. His current favorite sound is the Win 95
start up sound....

He has now got a reading age of about 13, so for example he can read a
broadsheet newspaper with out help, he can type anything, but is only just
learning to write with a pen. But even that is now happening super quick. He
started learning to write 9 months ago and had caught up with his class.

Just by my experience, I'd give them devices as soon as possible, but perhaps
remember to get them writing as well.

Why didnt we take care of making sure he could also write? Frankly piss poor
parenting on our part.

~~~
jonbarker
Thanks for the feedback. I imagine an ipad pro with the stylus could probably
catch him up on that. What caused the advanced reading age in your opinion?

------
pmontra
The home page is all about booting from CD-ROM drives but luckily it boots
also from USB keys
[http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/documentation-7/artic...](http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/documentation-7/article/get-
doudoulinux.html)

------
winkbrace
Very nice, but my 5yr old is discovering the mouse by playing Overwatch.

Such an environment is probably more required for seniors than children.

~~~
ekianjo
Isnt overwatch a little too violent for a 5 yo?

~~~
TulliusCicero
I don't think so, I started my son on it when he was 4. To me it doesn't seem
any more violent than old Looney Tunes cartoons where people get shot in the
face or blown up or anvils dropped on them. And it's adorable to watch him do
Reaper's DIE DIE DIE dance.

------
jasonkostempski
If a kid can't figure out the default WM on a system, the default WM is doing
something stupid, not the kid.

------
urlwolf
I have a soon-to-be-4. Is touchscreen a must? I'm not sure he will be very
good with mice or trackpads.

~~~
baseh
My son just turned 4. He doesnt seem to mind using a keyboard occasionally,
though searching for the keys leads to losing his interest quickly. He still
finds it amusing typing words in a text editor and seeing them appear on the
screen.

Touchscreen seems to be easiest be it for playing games or navigating youtube.
He uses google voice quite a bit on an Android smart phone, since he found the
"mic" button.

I have a 23-inch touch monitor hooked up to an intel nuc with Win10, which he
seems to like a lot. Though the educational apps in windows store are very
few. I was not able to find a way to hook up an Android variant to the touch
monitor.

------
spraak
Am I the outlier here? I don't see my daughter - who is 6 - using a desktop
regularly enough to need a special distro.. if she is using it, it's that we
are doing it together. I would like to see her have a Linux tablet though

~~~
sdegutis
My kids aged 4 8 9 and 12 each use the desktop every day, for recreation and
for homeschool, but they use Windows 10, they each have their own user
account, and they use it for various apps, including games like Minecraft and
Factorio, painting programs like Photoshop and Paint.NET, beginner programming
environments like Scratch and Sublime Text (for Love2d games), and more heavy
programming environments like IntelliJ and Visual Studio Express. Tablets and
Linux desktop distros wouldn't really make sense for us. But maybe this is an
atypical setup for children?

------
palerdot
A better webpage would be nice, something on the lines of ubuntu
([https://www.ubuntu.com/](https://www.ubuntu.com/))

------
matthewhall
This is stupid... Kids need to learn how to use a real computer. You'd be
surprised how many high school juniors don't know a thing about computers.

~~~
lucb1e
> a real computer

I think this computer is about as real as they get.

------
meddlepal
What an unfortunate name... I can only imagine telling a young kid he uses
"Doo Doo Linux"

~~~
pmontra
I'm not an English native speaker and I don't live in an English speaking
country so I may miss something. Doo Doo sounds fine to me, very childish.

~~~
mwfunk
Childish is an ironic way to describe it. :) It is a term that only small
children use, but almost all American children at least know what it means
even if they don't say it all the time.

I just realized that it's strange that there would be a slang term only used
by children, but that remained in use by generation after generation of
children over a period of at a minimum 50 years but probably much longer.

I'm not a parent, but I suspect that it's a word used by American parents
during potty training, hence its longevity.

~~~
jacquesm
Kids here are _still_ telling the exact same jokes kids were telling each
other 45 years ago. Why would only adults have lasting memes?

------
cygnus
Doudou, tu viens plus aux soirées ?

------
thrownblown
my 2 year old has been navigating Android for the last year no problem.

YouTube kids is great if you have a Red account. No commercials.

He loves my work laptop and I'm probably going to get him a Chromebook Flip
when he turns three.

