
How Not to teach a computer language - mwgriffith
http://mikescode.info/2011/11/05/how-not-to-teach-a-computer-language/
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RodgerTheGreat
HTML, SQL and VB.net... as courses in a Computer Science program? I don't
understand. You might as well have a course on PowerPoint.

Where I'm from, Computer Science is an applied mathematics discipline. Our
introductory courses are topics like Data Structures, Discrete Mathematics and
Formal Models of Computation.

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amalcon
Indeed. The school I attended had two disjoint (as in, nobody ever took both),
non-required introductory "programming language" courses whose goal was to
give the students a language in which to complete the assignments for the real
CS.

Other courses would cause you to learn languages (for example, one would cause
you to learn Scheme, one would cause you to learn Prolog) to demonstrate
particular quirks of language design, but that's a means to an end. Most of
them were things like "Algorithms", "Foundations of Computer Science", and
"Introductory A.I."

~~~
rufibarbatus
I didn't study CS in university, but my friends who _have_ often mention
subjects named after languages and frameworks (remarkably, I remember hearing
about a year-long course on COBOL "because most national banks have a backend
writen in COBOL").

(To clarify: I'm talking about schools in São Paulo, Brazil. No names
mentioned because I've no first-hand experience — maybe they do have better
courses and my friends are the ones picking the language-and-framework–related
subjects.)

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techdmn
As someone who has interviewed many programmers (and hired a few) over the
passed two years, I find a surprisingly low correlation between education
level and competency. An M.S. in C.S. does not impress me the way it used too.
:)

Also, in programming there seem to be a lot of people who have a good
education, even significant experience, but struggle to do the work. I wonder
how much this is true of other fields, like accounting, mechanical
engineering, or medical. Higher quality education in those fields? (Certainly
more education and training in medical.)

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log6
Falls flat on its face as an example of how not to design a website (doesn't
display anything in Safara on an iPad).

~~~
thoughtsimple
Yup. Nothing displayed on the iPhone as well.

~~~
brown9-2
Odd, works fine on mine. Perhaps the site was just down?

~~~
log6
Retracted - working now.

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beej71
Yes, bad teachers can absolutely ruin it. I had a stats prof that just
_destroyed_ the class. I failed, along with a great many students. Took it
again with someone else, learned the material, and got an A.

The difference was that one teacher could present the material in a way that
people understood, and the other could not.

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jordanmessina
Not that I'm defending a bad teacher, but to say programming vocabulary isn't
needed in the real world is a sign of a bad programmer. Being able to
communicate exactly what you're doing is as important as actually doing it.

~~~
FuzzyDunlop
It was a poorly written sentence but I think he's trying to say the tests
themselves are irrelevant. That's to say, the students aren't being taught
anything they can later use in the real world, only how to pass the test.

Knowing how to pass a test isn't particularly valuable.

~~~
shabble
> Knowing how to pass a test isn't particularly valuable.

On the contrary; a huge number of job opportunities these days are off-limits
to those without a bit of paper saying they passed a certain (set of) test.
Whilst the _actual_ knowledge/skills are ultimately far more valuable, you
still need the opportunity to use them.

Test-taking is itself a skill, and one that can ultimately provide quite a bit
of value.

~~~
FuzzyDunlop
Indeed. The question from there is, does it get you the job you want? If you
only have the skill to pass a test, how valuable will the work you get be to
you? Just a means to an end maybe?

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pmiller2
This should just be called "How Not to Teach." It doesn't matter what subject
we're talking about, if these factors are in play (bad teacher, bad book,
mostly irrelevant tests), students won't learn.

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nknight
Nice, it's the embodiment of every negative stereotype of CS programs.

Has anyone thought to compile a list of schools outside the
MIT/CalTech/CMU/... level that still teach something resembling _computer
science_? Or are they all just bad IDE trade schools now?

~~~
rottencupcakes
Even MIT's basic undergraduate curriculum seems to be teaching CS less and
less. It seems like the modern curriculum is geared towards learning how to
use Python / Java in productive ways.

Students can still study more theoretical topics, but they have to seek out
the classes.

