

Buy a Jeep, Fund a Startup - DanielBMarkham
http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2010/03/buy-a-jeep-fund.php

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mattmaroon
I wish securities laws were such that you could community fund your startup
without running afoul of them. If you could, say, take a few hundred bucks for
a tiny % of the company I might be interested in that, especially since you
idea seems like it ain't half bad.

But having to donate $8k or more, and then being saddled with a Jeep, is going
to make it hard. I bet you could get $8k and keep your car if the laws were
different.

~~~
jacquesm
I think that as long as shares are to identified people the securities laws
are pretty lenient.

It's as soon as shares are traded publicly and 'to bearer' that you get in to
the trouble zone.

more reading:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor>

[http://www.entrepreneur.com/money/financing/loansfromfriends...](http://www.entrepreneur.com/money/financing/loansfromfriendsandfamily/article51542.html)

[http://www.angelblog.net/Startup_Funding_the_Friends_and_Fam...](http://www.angelblog.net/Startup_Funding_the_Friends_and_Family_Round.html)

It's definitely possible I think, if the funding is structured as a loan then
there is no problem at all, if it is in return for equity you have to be a bit
more careful but I don't think that it is a requirement that every investor is
an 'accredited investor', especially not if the individual amounts are small
enough.

I'd certainly make sure that was 'non voting' stock, otherwise you have a real
issue with share holder meetings right away, which (for instance) with 10
people supplying $1000 each would not be in relation to the investment.

~~~
mattmaroon
You cannot even legally post on Twitter "I'm raising funding". Someone did
this last year and got harangued for it. How can you crowdsource a funding
round if you cannot do something that simple?

Also, I would never invest in a convertible loan like that, and if you talk to
a lot of investors (even angels) you'll find that a common sentiment.
Investors hate convertibles. A few have told me that if you do those, it's not
a question of if you're going to get screwed but when and how.

~~~
jacquesm
That's because twitter is a public forum and by asking it in that way you are
effectively making a public offering.

But mailing your buddies is a different matter.

Think of it this way: there has to be some - minimal - pre-existing
relationship between you and your target investors.

~~~
mattmaroon
Right, that isn't scalable, and it isn't crowdsourcing. Crowdsourcing is
posting on HN "fund my startup". That's what I want.

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jacquesm
You certainly put your money (and your car!) where your mouth is and I really
respect that.

I bought back ww.com and associated stuff from partners/investors by selling
my house, never regretted the decision.

I _really_ hope you succeed in your venture, let me know if there is some
concrete way in which I can help you.

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vaksel
you should list it on all the jeep and offroader forums, since those guys will
be much more likely to want something exactly like that. And will be much more
willing to pay something like that.

Car guys see a rare car with tons of mods and a great price.

Non-car guys see a 30 year old jeep.

~~~
thaumaturgy
Car guy here. (Working on an authentic 1917 model T speedster, also have a
1972 Jeep J-4000, 1990 Firebird, and a 1987 AMC Eagle in pieces.)

It's ... well, it's an interesting vehicle, anyway. I'm not sure how someone
would say that they "restored" a 14-year-old vehicle by giving it Corvette
colors; I'm not sure why you'd put a Chevy engine into an old Jeep and then
mate that up to an _automatic_ transmission, and figure it's good for anything
other than the easiest of Jeep trails. The fact that the seller uses the
phrase "they tell me" when talking about bubbling paint being a sign of water
leakage is somewhat worrisome -- if he's not sure about that kind of thing,
then what does that say about the rest of the work done on it? And, blaming
the vehicle's inability to brake easily on the engine's power and the size of
the tires is just wrong. Braking distance is a function of the braking system,
the vehicle's speed, the vehicle's mass, the vehicle's front suspension, and
the vehicle's tires (where bigger tires are _better_ ).

Daniel and I disagree pretty strongly on environmental matters, and I'm trying
very hard not to let that affect my reaction to this. But, as a car guy that
can really appreciate a custom vehicle done right ... well, I sincerely wish
him good luck on the sale at that price.

I also think that putting $30,000 into a car project to get that sort of
result might, on reflection, provide some insight into what's holding back his
startup ideas.

~~~
jacquesm
Car guy here. Restored several cars from the ground up, including complete
strip-downs, body work, engine overhauls and so on.

When restoring 'young' but interesting cars (my favorites are 'minis' but I've
done two Citroen DS's) it is not unusual to put a lot of money and time in to
a car that you end up with a car that has a book value that is less than the
money that you put in to it (and that's already valuing your time at '0'),
that really doesn't have any bearing on anything else other than that
restoring young cars is a thing you do when you plan to keep a car, or for
sentimental reasons, not because you think of it as a business proposition.
Hobbies _cost_ money.

Who knows why that engine and gearbox ended up in that car, it simply may have
been what was available to him at his budget at the time, or it is possible
that he got it in that state.

The fact that Daniel did that, and is willing to sell his car for it's market
value in order to extend the 'runway' of his startup speaks volumes about him
and his character and gives you an indication why he has quite a few people
that wish him the best, apparently unlike you.

The ability to put sentiment aside and to look at a car as a liquid-able asset
is really a pretty strong indicator of a business mentality that transcends
simply asking others for their cash, plenty of us 'successful' entrepreneurs
have at one stage or other in life done just that in order to be able to make
something happen.

> Daniel and I disagree pretty strongly on environmental matters, and I'm
> trying very hard not to let that affect my reaction to this.

I think you utterly failed at that.

~~~
thaumaturgy
Fair enough. I'd delete the comment if I could.

I apologize, Daniel. That was uncalled-for.

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eliot_sykes
Kickstarter.com is worth a look for funding a portion of what you're doing,
for example the logo design or hosting fees.

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eliot_sykes
Good luck Daniel

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Thanks Eliot.

They say good startup founders improvise and come up with new solutions. I
thought this might be something that would work, at least for the short-term.

