
Lenovo Announces a $130 Windows PC in a Stick - indoindo
http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/24/lenovo-announces-a-130-windows-pc-in-a-stick/
======
ZenoArrow
Is this just a rebranded Intel Compute Stick?
[http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-
stick/intel-c...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-
compute-stick.html)

~~~
GFischer
It has the same processor and specs.

Also, that was one of the lowest-content and worst-thought-out TechCrunch
writeups I've seen ("If you’ve ever wanted to plug a Windows machine into your
TV for a little hot and heavy Excel slinging, you’re in luck"... really? I've
done so with Laptops for the last decade).

And they even acknowledge "These single-stick computers are nothing new "
(heck, we've got some Intel Compute Sticks at my work). I guess it's not fun
having to write up these things.

~~~
mariusmg
Really? You don't appreciate the effort of coming up with the phrase "hot and
heavy slinging" in a article about TV dongles ? :)

~~~
artmageddon
Especially when it's used in conjunction with "Excel"...

------
kev6168
Just the other day I was thinking it would be nice if a cell phone can fire up
multiple normal OSs (i.e., desktop Linux/Windows/OSX), so at
hotel/library/friend's home/etc., one can pull it out of pocket, connect to a
display and hack away.

I wonder when we can have that level of power and convenience in our regular
phones.

~~~
pjc50
That's not so much a computing power limitation but a limitation imposed by
the manufacturers on what you can run. The Nokia N900 had Linux running on it
in 2010.

If you're one of the lucky few with an Ubuntu phone, you can do this as well.

~~~
rbanffy
> The Nokia N900 had Linux running on it in 2010

True, but it depends on what you want to do with it. I can run Linux on an
Intel Edison board (did some Python and C++ programming on one last weekend),
but I wouldn't dare to try to write code on anything heavier than vim.

------
jdietrich
If you're wondering about the target market for these devices, the main answer
is digital signage. Those LCD signs in train stations and shopping malls
constitute a huge market for small, low-powered and fanless computers. There
are at least a dozen SaaS startups in this space, targeting a wide variety of
hardware and OSes.

~~~
ZenoArrow
I doubt that this particular Lenovo mini PC is targetting that niche. You
wouldn't need 32GB of storage for something as basic as digital signage, and
there are Android-based alternatives for 3x cheaper...
[http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/mini-pcs/mk808-android-
mini...](http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/mini-pcs/mk808-android-mini-pc)

~~~
eli
I _wish_ the MK808 was a plug and play digital sign, but it's actually kind of
a pain to set up and use. I've got one sitting in a drawer.

If someone came out with a stick computer that simply connects to wifi and
displays a webpage in a relatively modern browser at 1080 (or at least 720)
_and makes it easy_ , I would buy several of them at a nice premium over
whatever the hardware normally costs.

I actually think an Android hacker or RaspberryPI hobbyist could make some
money selling something like that.

~~~
ZenoArrow
"I wish the MK808 was a plug and play digital sign, but it's actually kind of
a pain to set up and use. I've got one sitting in a drawer."

What did you find painful about using it? Looks like it supports custom ROMs,
did you try using something like CyanogenMod (or the Finless ROM mentioned in
the linked article)?

~~~
eli
I tried one firmware (maybe it was finless?) downloaded from a sketchy looking
site that cause the wifi to no longer connect. There did not some to be many
firmware choices that supported 1080 output. Even getting an app to run
automatically on bootup felt like a chore.

Regardless, I would gladly pay twice as much for the device if it came already
set up. I am very pro-hobbyist, but in this case I want a fully formed
product.

~~~
ZenoArrow
"Regardless, I would gladly pay twice as much for the device if it came
already set up. I am very pro-hobbyist, but in this case I want a fully formed
product."

So something as simple as a Raspberry Pi B+ ($25), an OmniVESA (approx $7), a
USB WiFi dongle (approx $9), a 4GB MicroSDHC card (approx $6), a micro USB
charger (approx $4) and a short HDMI cable (approx $7). Total cost $58. Could
add a cheap case if you wanted. Perhaps there are ways to do all this cheaper
with an Android mini PC, but a RasPi setup would be very flexible, and
wouldn't require too much setup. It's also easy to boot straight into a web
browser (can find some distro recommendations here
[https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=8502...](https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=85020)).

[http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/RASPBERRY-
PI-83-16317-...](http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/RASPBERRY-
PI-83-16317-/83-16317)

[http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/omnivesa](http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/omnivesa)

[http://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Pi-WIFI-Adapter-
Dongle/dp/B0...](http://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Pi-WIFI-Adapter-
Dongle/dp/B009FA2UYK)

[http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSDHC-Memory-Adapter-
Packa...](http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSDHC-Memory-Adapter-
Packaging/dp/B000SMVQK8)

[http://www.amazon.com/BlackBerry-Folding-Blade-Micro-USB-
Cha...](http://www.amazon.com/BlackBerry-Folding-Blade-Micro-USB-
Charger/dp/B001LRPN0S/)

[http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cable-Store-Foot-
Plated/dp/B00474...](http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cable-Store-Foot-
Plated/dp/B00474YRE0/)

Even though you're ideally looking for an off the shelf solution, hope these
suggestions are of some use.

~~~
eli
Great, now put it together for me and I'll buy three at $99 each :)

------
jbb555
How fast are the CPUs in these compared to say a modern i3, i5, i7 CPU? I know
they will be a lot slower just interested in how much slower?

~~~
fotcorn
Here are some benchmarks againt a Mobile i3 and i5:

[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=compulab-...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=compulab-
fitlet-i&num=4)

The CPU on this one is the same as on the Intel Compute Stick, a Z3735F.

~~~
tjbiddle
For a $17 processor - That thing really isn't all that bad!

------
mirimir
I wonder if any hosting providers are offering such micro PCs, or planning to.
They would be a great alternative to VPS, arguably with better security. I've
seen some Raspberry Pi hosting, but its USB NIC is too slow.

I'll update this if I find anything.

~~~
ZenoArrow
The Odroid C1 would be a better match for this than a Raspberry Pi 2. They
both cost $35, but the Odroid C1 has Gigabit Ethernet plus a faster CPU (based
on these tests at least... [http://www.androidauthority.com/raspberry-pi-2-vs-
odroid-c1-...](http://www.androidauthority.com/raspberry-pi-2-vs-odroid-c1-vs-
hummingboard-vs-mips-creator-ci20-599418/) ).

~~~
mirimir
Thanks!

Now only if someone were providing hosting for them ...

Maybe Raspberry Hosting[0] would be interested ;)

[0] [https://raspberry-hosting.com/en](https://raspberry-hosting.com/en)

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unklefolk
I don't understand why they have added a tiny speaker to this gadget. It
wouldn't imagine it is very loud and in most cases would be stuck around the
back of your TV. Could someone enlighten me to when a speaker would be useful?

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Diagnosing faults

------
teekert
Too bad it makes me have to move my flat tv 10 cm of the wall. An HDMI
connector at an angle would have been nice (or I could buy an extension HDMI
cable of course.).

~~~
ianlevesque
Yeah for that reason the Apple TV or Fire TV form factor is better.

~~~
dublinben
The HDMI stick form factor works for the majority of TVs which have their
ports facing to the side.

------
GordonS
How is this thing powered?

~~~
GordonS
if this _is_ a rebranded Intel device (looks like it), Intel says:

"5V, 2A wall-mount AC-DC power adapter"

So I need to have cables trailing around. They don't show that in the pretty
pictures do they? :/

------
bitL
Can you install Linux on it, i.e. is the boot loader unlocked? If so, it can
be a great air-gapped stick for generating and storing keys and certificates
on the go.

------
gbl08ma
I own a Windows tablet (Voyo A1 Mini) with exactly the same CPU and amount of
memory and storage, which I have been using as 7" keyboard-less laptop
replacement, so I thought it would be interesting to share my opinion.

The CPU is fast enough for moderate web browsing, using Office, playing videos
and music, etc. In other words, the casual tasks of an "average user". Of
course, it wasn't made to compile software or run complex simulations, and it
has some thermal throttling (my tablet has no fans and this stick doesn't
appear to have any, either), so if you use the four cores to the maximum for
some time, the speed will start decreasing from 1.56 GHz (I have made the max
go as low as 0.96 GHz due to throttling). This is the kind of thing that
doesn't show in all benchmarks, so beware. (To be fair, spec sheets also don't
say that when cores are not fully used, turboboost kicks in and a single core
can be working at 1.8 GHz for quite some time).

The integrated Intel graphics are (as usual) good for media playing, web
browsing and dealing with Windows UI animations, but forget any kind of gaming
that demands more than a smartphone game.

The biggest problem, for me at least, is the lack of RAM: 2 GB of RAM are
filled quite fast with 6-8 Chrome tabs and some background software open. It
also doesn't take much to fill the whole 4 GB of commit space, and of course,
bringing pages in and out of the pagefile is quite slow (the storage is flash,
but not quite a SSD). It is easy to make Windows show a "system running low on
memory" message just by opening 20 Chrome tabs, some with heavy sites. If all
you want to do is run Microsoft Office, I found it to actually be much lighter
on memory use than I previously thought (I never saw OneNote, Excel or Word go
beyond 90 MB).

Storage gets quite full very easily, mine is always with ~1 GB free (Windows
and Office installed on C:, most other things installed on the SD card), and
this is using things like NTFS compression. If this stick is like my tablet,
it will have 6 GB of storage "wasted" on a recovery partition. Also, the trick
Microsoft recommends OEMs use for fitting Windows on systems with as few as 16
GB of storage, which consists on using WIM images for storing the system
files, works only while the install is fresh: as more and more system updates
are installed, the altered files seem to be stored out of the image, which
means there's effectively more space used with Windows files than with a
normal install. I have "reserved" the Windows 10 update and I'm eager to see
how it will deal with background-downloading the (possibly gigabytes) of files
into a system with only 1 GB free.

I once thought of installing Visual Studio just to see how slow it would run,
but gave up once I understood most components must be installed to C: (it
appears that installing VS effectively equates to "extending Windows" with
developer tools).

I am still quite happy with the purchase (it was about $150) since it allows
for doing things Android tablets don't do, like running the full MS Office or
using proper desktop versions of browsers and other software. I imagine this
stick opens the same kind of possibilities.

~~~
rilut
Thanks. Can it play a 720p H.265 video?

------
johnchristopher
How would the Baytrail Z3735F CPU that it is equipped with compare with a 6
year-old ATOM n280 ?

------
neotokyo
Can these Baytrail processors handle HEVC / h.265 at HD well?

------
WorldWideWayne
Every single TV in my house as a Windows device plugged into it. We've tried
Roku, Chromecast and others - but you can't beat Windows if flexibility is
what you want.

Having just a Chromecast sucks because you need a whole other smart device to
actually do things. The Roku is a little better, but honestly it's too slow to
navigate.

With Windows, I can do whatever the heck I want. We can play classic game
emulators with Xbox controllers, watch ripped exercise DVDs with VLC media
player (my wife does this), we run Netflix for Windows or Kodi to watch
movies/TV and then of course we can do anything that a Chromecast does by
simply opening Chrome (with adblock). It's awesome.

~~~
twiceaday
If you are in the Apple ecosystem you really can't beat Apple TV. Bring up the
content on your phone then Airplay to the TV and use the phone as an awesome
media remote. Random internet videos? Bring up on the phone = on the TV.
Netflix, YouTube, Twitch? Awesome phone apps = on the TV. Your own video
files? I use Air Video Server HD on PC with companion iPhone app; every video
file I own = on the TV. Its just perfect.

~~~
WorldWideWayne
Sure, it's perfect if you're content to live in the confines of Apple's prison
yard. I just can't stand Apple the company or their dumbed-down products
though. They are the the king of "streamlined but extremely limited", so
there's no way that a person like me who values ultimate flexibility is going
to belong to the Apple ecosystem.

Can you look at funny memepics on the web while Pandora is playing in the
background on Apple TV? Shop for a new game on Steam while playing a YouTube
video? Connect an Xbox 360 controller to play games? We do all of these
things. I haven't used an Apple TV, but somehow I doubt that it excels at
multi-tasking or interoperating with the non-Apple universe.

~~~
twiceaday
You are comparing a $69 Apple TV to a desktop that will cost at least 4x that.
And the usage models you are describing do not correspond to how most people
watch TV. People sit on the couch with the TV on, potentially fiddling with
their phone. This works with Apple TV perfectly. If you want flexibility then
what you want is a much more expensive computer, and then you've got ten-foot-
ui problems even in the most basic usage scenarios. I too have my (gaming) pc
hooked up to my TV (via a long HDMI cable) but I only use it to play games
because the user experience is horrendous when doing anything else.

> dumbed-down products

> streamlined but extremely limited

What the hell are you even talking about here? It's certainly not TV sticks
because all of them offer similar functionality. It's certainly not Apple
laptops or desktops and their unix backed OSX. What then? Phones? What
activities do you do on your phone that cannot be done on an iPhone? In what
tangible way is an iPhone dumbed-down and extremely limited compared to, what,
Android? And most importantly, in what way does using an iPhone irreversibly
force you into the Apple ecosystem?

~~~
WorldWideWayne
Someone (it was you) told me that Apple TV is "perfect" and I disagreed and I
said all of the reasons why. You did continue the comparison though by talking
about how bad you think the UX is, but it would be nice to have some actual
examples instead of empty claims.

All of Apple's products are dumbed down compared to competing products.
Windows has _soooo_ much more flexibility than OS X and I'll be glad to give
you a couple of good examples to shore up my argument.

For starters - the really big obvious one is that OS X only runs on a very
small sub-set of the hardware that Windows runs on. I don't care if their
business plan dictates it, it's dumb and I won't use OS X because of it.
Windows runs faster on the same hardware anyway.

Here's a big one for which there are lots of examples - Apple simply does not
let you customize OS X nearly as much as you can customize Windows. Apple's
dumb-it-down attitude reaches all the way to the smallest of features - for
instance, __go try and change the color of your mouse cursor in OS X __. One
day I tried to change it to white because I like that better and I found out
that OS X has the cursor bitmap burned into a fucking ROM or something... that
's just a tad ridiculous, don't you think?

I think it's hilarious that some people are so in love with Apple that they
don't even see the most basic examples. If the mouse cursor example hasn't
convinced you please let me know and I'll come back with a larger list of just
how many ways OS X is limited (and therefore dumbed-down) compared to Windows
and Linux desktops.

(EDIT: And the same arguments go for the iPhone versus others. Apple doesn't
let you customize it nearly as much as Android and of course they don't let
you run it on the hardware you want, so yeah the iPhone is dumbed-down. Enjoy
your prison yard!)

~~~
twiceaday
You claim Apples products are dumbed down but the first example you give is
that OSX only runs on certain hardware. That's not what "dumbed down" means.
This goes more towards your point of their products being limited (extremely-
limited is still a stretch). But if you think about it their product is
Macbook + OSX. This pair is not limited, its as feature rich as any Windows
laptop (even more so I'd argue because of the unix backed OS). The Windows
ecosystem indeed has a larger selection of products but your claims were
significantly more far reaching than this simple fact.

> Here's a big one for which there are lots of examples - Apple simply does
> not let you customize OS X nearly as much as you can customize Windows.
> Apple's dumb-it-down attitude reaches all the way to the smallest of
> features - for instance, go try and change the color of your mouse cursor in
> OS X.

You escalate the notion of a mouse cursor theme being difficult to change into
the entire operating system being difficult to customize. An operating system
does a lot of stuff, I don't see how any of this follows.

> I think it's hilarious that some people are so in love with Apple that they
> don't even see the most basic examples.

I'm not sure what you think this tiny thing is indicative of, but I guarantee
to you that most people have never even thought about this because it is
irrelevant to their lives.

> And the same arguments go for the iPhone versus others. Apple doesn't let
> you customize it nearly as much as Android and of course they don't let you
> run it on the hardware you want, so yeah the iPhone is dumbed-down. Enjoy
> your prison yard!

To summarize your arguments: Apple provides fewer hardware options and a lot
less theming options. Seems to me like your words are a bit too harsh
considering you are describing a full desktop operating system and a full
mobile operating system, both of which have significantly more knobs to tweak
than just themes. They also run software you know. Limiting access to fiddle
with themes is hardly a prison yard. Also, not everybody has the time to
fiddle with themes. Also, just because something is customizable doesn't mean
you can make it look good (customizability comes at a cost to coherency).
Also, plenty of people use Apple strictly because of how their products look
and feel. I think your theming metric is quite weak in general, but especially
when used to back up the claims that every single thing Apple makes is "dumbed
down" and "extremely limited."

~~~
WorldWideWayne
Limited options is exactly what "dumbed down" means and Apple is known for
offering dumbed down limited devices and computers. The examples I gave are
just that - examples. I can give you a whole laundry list of ways that OS X is
limited compared to Windows and yes, the fact that you can only run OS X on
one single brand of hardware is a major limitation.

Being able to change the color of the cursor is not a "theming" option, it's a
usability option because I can see the white cursor and find it on the screen
much better than the black one. It's just one example though.

I'll go through every piece of software that comes with OS X and show you a
better default application that comes with Windows if you want. Let's start
with the basics - Finder - which is _super_ limited compared to other file
browsers.

\- Just added the ability to cut and paste in Lion/2011!

\- No hooks to extend it the way you can Windows Explorer. (So, you simply
cannot have a whole class of software, like TortoiseGit.)

\- No address bar to quickly see and/or enter a path. You can get close with
the status bar thingy, but it's still limited in ways that matter - namely,
having an obvious place to enter a path...

\- Cannot remove it from the Dock because reasons. (I don't care about the
reasons, you simply cannot do it.)

~~~
twiceaday
Yep, lets ignore the fact that the OSX and Windows are highly similar in
functionality, over-leverage some small differences all in favor of Windows as
if OSX is an exact subset, and continue to drill that all Apple products are
"extremely limited" and "dumbed down." Come on, man.

> Limited options is exactly what "dumbed down" means and Apple is known for
> offering dumbed down limited devices and computers.

> .. the fact that you can only run OS X on one single brand of hardware is a
> major limitation.

What are you trying to pull here? You know that's not what "exactly" means.
You painted a very vivid picture with your earlier words and you know god damn
well that it wasn't: "Apple has a limited hardware selection." No, you claimed
that all of their products are "extremely limited" and "dumbed down."
Meanwhile half of your argument relies on the fact that just the selection
process simplified. That's like calling Mazda products dumbed down because
they only sell a handful of cars. Its an absurd metric, its absurd for it to
be a large part of why you bad-mouth the entirety of their products, and it is
absurd to imply that bad-mouthing the entirety of their products in a vacuum
exactly implies that the selection process is limited. And by the way limiting
the hardware selection only to the high-end and providing a tighter
integration the software is a major reason why Apple is the company it is
today. That means regardless of how strongly you feel about this you have to
concede that you are being subjective. So what you've got here is a subjective
opinion about just the selection process being leveraged into calling all
products dumbed-down. Its just ridiculous.

> Being able to change the color of the cursor is not a "theming" option, it's
> a usability option because I can see the white cursor and find it on the
> screen much better than the black one. It's just one example though.

A large part of my objective was how you were heavily implying that this one
example strongly supports your grandiose claims.

I am not familiar with accessibility options on Macs historically but on my
work Mac there is an option to increase cursor size, and it can be made quite
big. Also, it's black precisely for visibility. The OSX themes have always
been bright and the vast majority of web pages and apps are bright so a black
cursor offers contrast. Doesn't Windows offer a black cursor as a means to
increase visibility?

> \- Just added the ability to cut and paste in Lion/2011!

Note how you're not complaining about the underlying functionality but only
about the UX differences. This is a complaint that OSX is not Windows and its
four years old.

> \- No hooks to extend it the way you can Windows Explorer. (So, you simply
> cannot have a whole class of software, like TortoiseGit.)

I'm not familiar with this so I can't comment about specifics. Though this
does seem like a very niche use case, the lack of which does not warrant
calling the entire operating system "extremely simplified" and "dumbed down."

Why not just use git? Oh, right, dos. That's why I develop on macs.

> \- No address bar to quickly see and/or enter a path. You can get close with
> the status bar thingy, but it's still limited in ways that matter - namely,
> having an obvious place to enter a path...

From the menu: Go > Go to Folder ... or Command + Shift + G. Functionality is
there, it could be easier to access, its a trade-off. Though the vast majority
of the time that I go to specific code paths I'm in bash.

> \- Cannot remove it from the Dock because reasons. (I don't care about the
> reasons, you simply cannot do it.)

Hiding Finder is the equivalent of hiding the start menu on Windows. I have no
idea how to do either, I'm not sure why anybody would want to, and I don't see
a logical relation between this and calling the operating system "dumbed
down".

------
thrillgore
It looks like a product not particularly solving any solution. The Chromecast
solves a problem. This does not.

~~~
mindslight
Yeah, Google's problem of how to spread their proprietary locked down
experience to televisions.

