
Echelon (signals intelligence) - olalonde
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)
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russell
If you live in the valley long enough, you get involve in some wierd shit. In
the pre-Internet days, I worked on a search engine that we believed was used
in Echelon. Mind you my info is about fourth hand because the tiny company I
worked for sold the software to a defense contractor who sold it to ... the
NSA. I remember the bugs were a piece of work. They didnt give any of the
search terms, let alone the documents. One was that the parser barfed if the
document contained more than 4k 03's in a sequence.

The company figured out that is was Echelon after the flap emerged and Echelon
was disappeared/disbanded/re-purposed. The feedback that we got was that it
was the Israelis that were doing the commercial espionage. Some of the other
governments were angry that the Israelis were involved at all.

OTOH we could have been given a complete pack of lies to divert our attention
from the real group.

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michaeldhopkins
I've heard, but have no way to prove, that Echelon allows domestic spying by
arranging for member countries to collect data flows of the other member
countries. Presumably this is then shared by some agreement that falls outside
what is left of the domestic wiretapping restrictions.

Could be nonsense, but after learning that MKUltra was real, who knows
anymore. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA>

~~~
iwwr
The idea that they have the power to spy and don't use it, when they could and
without consequences is a little hard to fathom. Besides, there is very little
legally nowadays that is really off-limits in that area. And whatever may not
be (like the AT&T spying scandal was), can quickly be covered by new laws
(with bi-partisan support).

~~~
uikjhgyujmn
The problem is who 'they' are

The CIA/NSA etc spying on the US and UK's enemies?

Or US companies spying on UK companies to gain a competitive advantage?

If you were a BP boss would you be confident that they weren't handing your
emails over to the Whitehouse during the gulf spill?

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runjake
Echelon is largely old news. The best modern, public look at the current
series (yes, series, and disparate at that) of systems is James Bamford's
latest book, "Shadow Factory". It is full of fairly technical details, names,
and places.

[http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Factory-NSA-Eavesdropping-
Ameri...](http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Factory-NSA-Eavesdropping-
America/dp/0307279391/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300225377&sr=8-1)

~~~
arctangent
If I were paranoid and/or involved in intelligence work I might wonder whether
these ancient facilities were retained to divert attention from newer
intelligence-gathering facilities.

Disclaimer: I'm currently working my way through the TV series "24" :-)

~~~
runjake
Most of these facilities are still in use. Some are occasionally
decommissioned.

IIRC, one such place out in the woods, back east was decommissioned and
purchased for use by amateur astronomers some years back.

They probably had a field day opening the door for the first time. The
equipment was all stripped out prior, but I'm sure they got a kick out of the
expensive wiring & elaborate shielding _everywhere_.

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ch0wn
I heard about this for the first time on J. J. Abram's Alias and researched
it. I was quite surprised to see that it's real.

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ruethewhirled
We hear about this quite often in the New Zealand media. People are often
protesting outside the big "bubble" things and on the odd occasion (I think
twice) people have jumped the fences and gotten past security to "pop" the
"bubbles", causing "millions" in damages, a couple of guys are on trial atm
for this, or very recently were

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arctangent
Please elaborate on what this "bubble" is that you speak of... Do you mean
"listening facility" or something like that, or does "bubble" mean something
more specific in your context?

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ruethewhirled
Oh yeah, sorry I should have said domes for the radio dishes or what ever they
are

[http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/04images/Bases/Wai...](http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/04images/Bases/Waihopai_dome_collapsed_719999.jpg)

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PHPAdam
I don't live far from Menwith Hill. Interesting Read.

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michaelcampbell
Any unusual signage or anything around there? I used to live within driving
distance to a State penitentiary in the US. It was out in the middle of
nowhere (at the time), surrounded by farmland. On all 4 roads that marked the
border around it were numerous signs, "Do Not Pick Up Hitchhikers!"

~~~
WestCoastJustin
It's on google street view -- have a look for yourself ;)

[http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&...](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Menwith+Hill&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=54.357317,78.398437&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Menwith+Hill,+Harrogate,+North+Yorkshire,+United+Kingdom&ll=54.008828,-1.688161&spn=0.020024,0.03828&t=h&z=15)

~~~
michaelcampbell
Looks like beautiful country. I can't read the signs from the satellite,
though... ;-)

