

Anyone else deal with burnout at a corporate gig? - msdet11

Hi HN!<p>Apologies if I come off a tad naive, but I am looking for advice from some more experienced in the community. I am very fresh out of college and holding a very safe developer job a medium sized company working on enterprise software. This job leaves me feeling like an incredibly small fish in a very large pond. My contributions to my team and company seem minimal at best. I don't feel like this is normal, and have had trouble dealing with bouts of burnout. I regularly work on side projects, and other outside apps that I find rewarding to the point where I get immediately wrapped up in whatever I'm creating. So for any HN'ers out there am I just suffering from "Whiny Youngster Syndrome", or could this be a legitimate cause to look for greener pastures?
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sixtypoundhound
This is natural for an ambitious person at your level.

You're also doing the right thing by staying where you are until you find a
compelling reason to walk away. The side projects are good and will get your
name out there. Go do some tech meetups if you get a chance. Don't
underestimate the value of an employer subsidized launch schedule.

You will know when the time is right.

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kls
While side projects are good you are going to need more to stave off burn out,
consider taking a painting class or learning an instrument. You need something
external to the computer to expand your horizons, burn out is a combination of
issues, but one of the big issues is that as a group developers like to learn
and at a certain point we peek in a language their is just not that much to
learn that is interesting, when this happens that need to learn has to be
focused on other outlets.

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ecaroth
Dealt with this myself. The side projects only go so far to help you deal with
this. I also found myself so into the side projects that I would often find
myself distracted from my actual job. I'm sure you plan on sticking with your
career field for many years to come. If you absolutely need the
money/stability, stick it out (at least for a while). But if you are ready &
willing to take some chances, ask yourself first if this corporate job is
teaching you skills you can continue to use, and move up/forward, for the rest
of your career or are you a 'worker drone'. A corporate job can teach you
boatloads about how to run stable apps at scale, but usually stifle innovation
& creativity. Working at a startup or smaller shop will usually get you much
more exciting and creative projects and challenges, however the tradeoff is
that you usually have to accept much more responsibility for what you build.
You won't always have a rigorous test suite, QA department, and week-long
rollout cycles. I can tell you though, from somebody who came from the exact
same place, working at a startup is 20x more rewarding and fulfilling.

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chris_dcosta
Corporate burn out is inevitable. Having done this for the last 14 years or
so, I see it and experience it all the time.

I agree with most of the posts here so far, side projects only go so far to
help you deal with it, but the future is pretty grim too. If you stick at
this, and then get settled, there's actually very little to push you off the
treadmill.

Corporate IT is mind-numbingly dull. You will never be a big fish, no matter
what your title says you are, and you'll always have the feeling you missed
the boat, because coprate IT is always years behind the curve. I speak from
experience!

If I had my time again, I'd do everything I could to get into a tech start-up,
or do one myself. You'll learn all you need along the way, and more. Stuff
that corporate meetings and politically messy projects will never teach you.

If you have family that can support you, just go for it.

~~~
msdet11
Yeah. I can definitely agree with all the points being made. It just seems at
least in the Midwest college age developers aren't pushed to do anything
innovative. Just get a corporate job, and 401k and be a company man the rest
of your life. I think I may start looking for a new gig then. Life seems too
short to play it safe everyday.

~~~
ecaroth
Not sure where in the midwest you are, but I live in the Minneapolis MN area
and there is a blossoming tech scene, and many new startups eager to hire
ambitions developers that are willing to learn. I have heard similar things
about Madison, and Chicago is a tech hub with many prominent startups.

~~~
msdet11
I'm around the Detroit area. I've hit up a couple startup meetups, and things
of that nature. The few places I've talked to really don't have the wiggle
room to hire at the moment which seems like a bummer.

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defdannyd
Trust your instincts on this one, especially before you begin acquiring
wife/house/kids, etc., as this will chain you to the biggest paycheck. I have
worked in several large corporations and in general they stifle creativity and
are so mired in politics that it is nigh impossible to accomplish anything of
substance. The key here is that you highlighted practicing your craft as
creating and being rewarding. For most corporate devs, it is only a job and
they do belong and thrive there. For you and others like you, find a smaller
place (or a startup that you can turn into a bigger place) that needs and
recognizes the fine art that you practice.

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Thunderdome
Yep. Two programmers enter, one programmer leaves.

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pasbesoin
The worst corporate environments bring you -- persistently; repeatedly;
seemingly as a matter of policy, no matter what the "propaganda" of internal
communications -- to doubt yourself.

When that's the case, get the h-ll out!

When it's not that bad, evaluation the pro's and con's and make sure you have
a plan forward -- _your_ plan forward, not theirs.

It may -- perhaps even likely won't -- work out just the way you plan. But,
you'll be making progress and trying to get somewhere.

If you don't have a lot of personal responsibilities to others (e.g. family)
and want to learn more, a different environment is very likely a better bet.

Sometimes one can end up on a... "blessed" -- or ignored -- team in a larger
corporation, where corresponding autonomy combined with a good manager leads
to a good, productive, educational experience.

(In my experience, this is when the team members are so valuable and rare that
Management has realized/decide that they can't afford to do without them, and
maybe is even respectful of or afraid of disrupting the environment, balance,
or "magic" that makes the team work.)

But that seems to be somewhat the exception. And from cycle to cycle, year to
year, you don't know when a critical person is going to move on, or Management
is going to "notice you all" and make things crap.

~~~
caw
> When it's not that bad, evaluation the pro's and con's and make sure you
> have a plan forward -- your plan forward, not theirs.

100% agreement. You need to figure out your plans and goals, and then
implement those. If you can find these goals at your current job you'll
probably stay, otherwise you should think about leaving. This is the same
whether you're in a company of 1 or 100,000 people.

One thing larger corps will expose you to is bureaucracy and politics. It's
actually quite handy to learn. It becomes evident when people don't have
skills like allowing a party to save face. You absolutely have to work with
people that get on your nerves again, you have to network, and in a few years
they could be your boss. It's just the way things go.

> corresponding autonomy combined with a good manager leads to a good,
> productive, educational experience.

There are actually several different career desires. While autonomy could lead
to a productive experience, it is not the only way. Certainly your autonomy
could cause other problems. Some of the other career desires could be
work/life balance, challenges, security, or advancement. In other words, you
can still have a productive experience but put value on things other than
autonomy. I do not doubt that a good manager will help you significantly.

My corporate job is dry at times. I do learn things and solve problems with
scopes that few people would. Is it enough for me? I'm not sure, and it's
certainly a good question to always be considering. I have started trending
towards "ask for forgiveness" rather than to ask permission. So far that
hasn't back fired, and that lets me work on some work related topics that I
find interesting.

Is corporate good experience to have later in life? Yes. Like another post was
saying about full QA test suites, standardized release processes, etc. You
need exposure to these things, and how it's done "in the big leagues." Then
you can go to a startup if you wish and choose to ignore certain aspects. But
you know them, so it's not impossible to implement them later. That makes you
infinitely more valuable than someone who does not have that knowledge.

