
Ask PG: Do you review rejected YC apps to find startups who then made it big? - vishnupr
Just wondering.
======
pg
Whenever a startup we rejected seems to be succeeding, we go back and try to
figure out why we rejected them. Occasionally we change the application
process as a result.

We don't start from the applications though. We hear from news stories when
startups are doing well, and then we go back and look at their application.

~~~
ivankirigin
You're going to miss startups that might have succeeded if you had invested
this way. You take a percentage of the companies you invest in because you
make it more likely for them to succeed.

Given the funnel of startup failure, there are probably more startups that
didn't succeed because you passed than startups that succeed despite your
passing.

~~~
pkinsky
But what metric can track might-have-beens?

~~~
ivankirigin
My point is that only looking at those that are successful is missing most of
the data on people they should have funded. Assessing this is really hard, but
they shouldn't fool themselves into thinking they have all the data.

~~~
jfoster
Your insight is correct, but doesn't seem to be actionable in any way.

~~~
ivankirigin
Yes it is: reflect on the interview process, not just on the rejected eventual
successes.

------
tobylane
Answering as if your question said "And does that make you want to change your
application process", because the first time I read it I thought it did.

My understanding of the essays I've read is that there wouldn't be much point
in it. Ideas evolve or change entirely, and more importantly people improve.
If the gut feeling was no then, all you know is that something changed.

~~~
namenotrequired
_all you know is that something changed._

Or you missed something that was already there - IMO more likely, considering
how little you can learn about someone from the application, and that the
founders at least had the potential to become what they are today.

~~~
baldajan
I disagree, founders and products change, and can make the difference between
lifestyle and $1B. Having had multiple rejections for years from different
sources (then accepted with the same idea), I know this to be true. It's less
about having a "great idea" and more about having the vision and ability to
execute on it - that's what needs to be proven.

~~~
namenotrequired
Sorry if it wasn't clear. My comment was purely about the founders, not about
the idea since I know they put so much more weight on the first than on the
latter.

------
itsprofitbaron
Based on a question answered by PG on Askolo, YCombinator track them[1]:

 _Q: Have there been any startups you 've later regretted rejecting from
YCombinator? A: Sure, several. But I can't name names because it's not for me
to disclose that they applied._

Additionally they also mention about contacting them on rejected
applications[2]:

 _" If you do, we'd appreciate it if you'd send us an email telling us about
it; we want to learn from our mistakes"_

Here are some that are known to have been rejected by YC and have gone onto
raise funding (which is not a perfect metric by any means since funding ≠
success) or have been acquired:

\- SendGrid - [http://sendgrid.com/](http://sendgrid.com/) \- Raised $27.4M[3]

\- CouchOne - [http://www.couchbase.com/](http://www.couchbase.com/) \- Raised
$56M[4]

\- AfterTheDeadline -
[http://afterthedeadline.com/](http://afterthedeadline.com/) \- Acquired By
Automattic

\- LightSail Energy -
[http://lightsailenergy.com/](http://lightsailenergy.com/) \- Raised $42.8M[5]

\- SignPost - [http://www.signpost.com/](http://www.signpost.com/) \- Raised
$15M[6]

\- Storenvy - [http://www.storenvy.com](http://www.storenvy.com) \- although
they were kicked out of YC[7] Raised $6.5M [8]

[1]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20120814111130/http://askolo.com...](https://web.archive.org/web/20120814111130/http://askolo.com/pg)

[2] [http://ycuniverse.com/yc-applying-interviewees](http://ycuniverse.com/yc-
applying-interviewees)

[3]
[http://www.crunchbase.com/company/sendgrid](http://www.crunchbase.com/company/sendgrid)

[4]
[http://www.crunchbase.com/company/couchbase](http://www.crunchbase.com/company/couchbase)

[5] [http://www.crunchbase.com/company/lightsail-
energy](http://www.crunchbase.com/company/lightsail-energy)

[6]
[http://www.crunchbase.com/company/signpost](http://www.crunchbase.com/company/signpost)

[7] [http://joncrawford.com/post/20378314843/how-i-got-kicked-
out...](http://joncrawford.com/post/20378314843/how-i-got-kicked-out-of-y-
combinator-and-then-raised)

[8] [http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/storenvy-goes-from-
getting-...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/storenvy-goes-from-getting-
kicked-out-of-yc-to-raising-a-5m-round/)

~~~
presty
Here's another one: Buffer

[https://www.quora.com/Y-Combinator/Whats-it-like-to-get-
reje...](https://www.quora.com/Y-Combinator/Whats-it-like-to-get-rejected-by-
Y-Combinator)

------
bound008
Yes. This has been mentioned by PG numerous times in numerous places.

------
001sky
Useful context> [http://graphics.wsj.com/billion-dollar-
club/](http://graphics.wsj.com/billion-dollar-club/)

Edit: with older data included>
[http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/unicorn-...](http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/unicorn-
graph1c.png)

------
adamgravitis
It would be a difficult study... How many YC companies would have failed if
they had not been accepted to YC? Certainly, a number of rejected companies
who later failed may have thrived under YC.

------
pervycreeper
Presumably, if they were to 'make it big' he would probably hear about this
through other channels without having to constantly monitor a large pool of
rejected applicants.

~~~
colinbartlett
Sure he would hear about it, but would he remember that they had applied.

Presumably, someone on the YC staff monitors the success of companies both in
the program and out of the program and uses that data to improve future
acceptance decisions.

------
hack_edu
Why so much 'Ask PG' lately when he never replies, let alone read them?

~~~
daniel-cussen
Seriously. I guess for him these kinds of posts have, overall, low signal vs.
noise.

~~~
zt
He has answered this question so many times in so many places. In fact, he
mentions the fact that YC tracks the companies they reject quite often --
including here on HN and in essays. Given that, I find it likely he has read
the comment but find it unlikely he'd take the time to respond since it's so
obviously asked by someone who isn't paying enough attention to even do ten
minutes of research on their own.

------
HowardJ
I'm starting to think "Ask PG" are linkbait titles disguised as "Ask HN".

------
hnriot
what a stupid ask. why wouldn't a vc do this? Isn't this something that would
be a big part of the iterative application process. I doubt the process has
remained unchanged over the years. As new feature vectors of success are
identified it would be a very inept investor who didn't consider how to
integrate that back into their process. And PG is not an inept investor.

~~~
phaus
There really isn't any need for such hostility, especially since you are
wrong. OP wanted to know if YC searched through applications looking for
rejects that ended up being successful. That's a very specific question.

PG says that's not how it works. I guess you think the way YC works is stupid.

------
Hoozt
Hashtag PGQuestionOfTheWeek

------
aashaykumar92
Reviewing rejected apps would be a waste of time given how many apps YC has
received. Also, what does 'big' mean? I doubt a startup exists that was
rejected by YC then grew to a $1B valuation--someone would probably have heard
of that by now, made a big deal of it, and those of us on HN would know. But I
don't doubt that YC-rejected startups have gone on to raise a few rounds of
funding and/or may have even made <$100M exits.

~~~
namenotrequired
_Reviewing rejected apps would be a waste of time given how many apps YC has
received_

Only a small number of those will have made it big since then, though (by
whatever definition). So they'd only have to look at a small amount to see if
there were any indicators that they might have overlooked.

