

Windows 8 is the new XP - anigbrowl
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/

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aristidb
To this day, a large fraction of companies has ignored Windows Vista and 7,
and is still running Windows XP. The upgrade to Windows XP went smooth by
comparison.

I think one major reason why XP succeeded was that it actually made a lot of
difference. Compared to Windows 98: Way less crashing, way more stability, and
a much better platform to make serious software on - thanks to a modern 32-bit
kernel with proper segregation between userspace programs, which finally
became widely available and tested.

What does Windows 8 bring over Windows 7 that justifies an upgrade? Small
incremental updates don't count, Windows 7 has those too (over XP), yet it's
still far from universally adopted after over 3 years.

(Now my lens may be colored with my view that convergence between laptops and
tablets is a stupid idea, so I don't really consider that as an actual
advantage of Windows 8.)

~~~
BruceIV
I installed Windows 8 this weekend on my primary machine (my school has an
MSDN subscription). My initial impression is that it's actually an upgrade on
the desktop - the Start screen really is better as an app launcher, and the
app search works quite quickly (it was always dog-slow on Windows 7 on the
same computer); the small upgrades to the task manager, taskbar, and Windows
Explorer are nice too. It took a bit of time to figure out the new UI (it's
all hot corners, but they're well hinted if you know to look for them), but
it's pretty reasonable. That's the good news - the bad news is that all Metro
apps (especially the Microsoft-branded ones) are useless, ad-ridden, under-
featured dreck - if you clear them all from your start screen, it's a decent
OS, but even Solitaire has ads, and takes a good 10 seconds to load because of
its pointless XBox live integration.

~~~
freditup
You summed up my thoughts too. Windows 8 starts up about twice as quick for
me, which is great. The explorer changes are nice enough, and if you don't
like the rather large ribbon UI, you can just hide it.

However, I also agree with you on the apps. On a laptop, I haven't once used a
Windows 8 app for anything (other than the weather app once or twice to try).
First, the apps take awhile to start. Secondly, they are unintuitive on a
laptop. Third, the ads. Why are there ads in the apps made by microsoft?
Customers aren't going to like seeing ads in a OS they just paid for.

Also, navigation between Metro apps and desktop apps is somewhat confusing.
Mousing over the top-left corner seems to only show your last used application
unless you awkwardly swipe your mouse downwards. The only easy to use app
switcher seems to be alt+tab.

Overall, Windows 8 isn't bad at all. But it is somewhat confusing. And if it
seems confusing to people who use technology all the time, will it make any
sense to those less tech-savy users? I don't think it will, but we'll have to
see.

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CoolGuySteve
Everyone forgets that XP is very different from XP SP2. SP2 was a major update
that replaced most of the binaries and offered significant API and security
upgrades that were essential to everyone.

Before SP2, XP didn't offer much over Win2000 and NT4 other than a slightly
lower price:

[http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/18829228/windows-
xp...](http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/18829228/windows-xp-slow-to-
take-hold.htm)

In that same vein, Win8 doesn't offer much over Win7 if you're not using a
tablet.

~~~
anigbrowl
Good point. I had forgotten how different the experience was pre- and post-
SP2.

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azakai
What a ridiculous article. So there was negativity about XP that turned out to
be wrong. What about the negativity about Vista that turned out to be right?

And how about considering each case on its own merits? Even aside from the
product itself which changes, the competitive landscape is nowhere near what
it was in XP or Vista days. A failure (Vista) back then was a minor
inconvenience. A failure today would be different.

~~~
wlesieutre
Most of the negativity about Vista was related to changes that were a good
thing in the long run, but didn't have 3rd party support (updated drivers) out
of the gate. SP1 fixed some problems, but in my opinion the bigger reason for
SP1 being reliable was that the ecosystem had gotten its act together.

Windows 8 might not have a lot of native metro apps in their store yet, but at
least everything works properly. Fewer companies have the option of screwing
it up out of laziness.

~~~
BruceIV
A lot of the Metro apps are a bit broken (even the Microsoft-provided ones) -
a big problem is them trying to go to websites that have moved since whenever
they were released.

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jedberg
The only reason Windows XP "suddenly" became popular is because the next
version of Windows that came out was so bad that everyone finally capitulated.

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phylosopher
I recently visited Microsoft innovation labs in Mountain View and they were
really touting how cool Windows 8 would be on desktops and tablets. I've
actually been using the release candidate version on a dual boot laptop with
Ubuntu for the past couple of months and have not been impressed or greatly
inconvenience. I did ask the presenter, a Microsoft developer, how I could
easily shutdown my computer as the shutdown button is now not easily
accessible as in Windows 7. His answer annoyed me as he gave me three options
on how to do it but didn't address the "easily" part of my question. This may
be a pattern with Microsoft, lots of feature but limited simplicity.

~~~
NZ_Matt
Shutting down using Win 8 takes exactly the same number of clicks as in Win 7.
Alternatively you could just hit the power button and it'll shut down fine.

~~~
numo16
Alt-F4 from the desktop in Win 8 still works, as well. Being that I'm in the
desktop a majority of the time on Win 8 and have always used Alt-F4 if
actually needed to turn off my machine for some reason (who does this
anymore?), so not much change for me.

------
wlesieutre
I more or less agree with this take. Windows 7 was good enough that a lot of
people won't have a reason to upgrade, but as Windows 8 tablets become more
common I think we'll see a "halo effect" on desktops. Having seen it running
for a few months, there are a lot of nice things about 8, and once you get
over the Start menu there aren't many negatives.

And new computers will come with 8 installed, so that's some pretty
significant adoption right there.

~~~
ghshephard
Re: "new computers will come with 8 installed, so that's some pretty
significant adoption right there."

I don't know a single corporate IT department in the Bay Area that has
committed to a full-scale Windows 8 Deployment in 2013. My estimate is that
75%+ of new computer sold to enterprises (everywhere) in the First Half of
2013 will ship with Windows 7, not Windows 8.

~~~
notatoad
Corporate IT is inherently conservative. Frankly, any company doing a full
roll-out of a new version of an operating system in the first year after
release is probably irresponsible, and any company planning their roll-out
before the software is even released definitely is. Good admins always wait
for SP1. I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything about the quality of the
software based on whether or not corporate sysadmins are deploying it.

------
admiralpumpkin
This article dodges (willfully ignores) the every-other good-bad release
schedule that has tended to be the pattern of Microsoft (and Star Trek
movies).

2000: good ME: bad XP2: good Vista: bad 7: good 8: bad

~~~
corporalagumbo
I have never understood this sentiment. If it's such an easy pattern to spot,
how come someone in senior management at Microsoft hasn't spotted it too? Is
your average internet commenter really smarter and more perceptive than one of
the world's largest and most successful companies? Furthermore, has Microsoft
not grown as a company at all for the last ten years? Has the IT environment
not changed at all either? And is history destiny?

I would argue no to all those notions. I think Microsoft in 2012 is a much
more disciplined, focussed, and frankly ambitious company than it was in 2002
or 2006. The development of 7 and especially how the company communicated with
the public about 7 was a quantum leap from Vista. As far as I can tell,
Microsoft has carried forward all of those improvements into the process of
building 8. If it is making mistakes with Windows 8, they are entirely
different genres of mistakes than it made with Vista or ME.

~~~
toyg
It's easy to explain: it's just a media narrative. If I know in advance that
the next product will be much better than the previous one, why should I read
any "news report" or "analysis" about it? I'll just enjoy the goodies when
they land. But if there is criticism, well, I better read up so that I can
react accordingly -- _here's my money and my ad impressions!_ The same will
happen, in reverse, with the following release.

Even Apple is subject to these media cycles (see antennagate, batteries
exploding etc), they just manage to deflect them to smaller items, stuff most
people don't care about. Microsoft seems to struggle much more when trying to
control product perception across media channels.

------
borg9888
Nope , no one in enterprise will touch it. We will wait and see what windows 9
brings.

~~~
wlesieutre
Yeah. Enterprise users are going to buy Windows 7 tablets instead.

Sarcasm aside, (some) enterprise users are going to buy tablets, and they're
going to have Windows RT. Whether they adopt 8 on the desktop is a separate
question, but if there's good uptake of RT that will give it a kick.

~~~
ghshephard
Why would the Enterprise buy Tablets with Windows RT? None of their apps will
run on WIndows RT. Wouldn't they want to buy Tablets with WIndows 8 so they
can run both legacy and Metro Style Apps?

~~~
numo16
Given the fact that several of my enterprise clients provide iPads to quite a
few employees, which definitely don't support legacy apps or Office (which
SurfaceRT will come installed with), I don't see why legacy support would be
an issue where the use case for an iPad already fits and a Surface tablet
might fit better.

~~~
wlesieutre
This is my point exactly. Thanks for putting it better than I did.

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petercooper
We had all that when Windows 95 came out too. My dad and I stayed as MS-DOS
6.22 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 holdouts for a good year or so.. ;-)

Luckily, nowadays it's easier to try out new systems, watch video reviews, and
get a feel for new products, so it's even easier to be open minded nowadays.

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saturdaysaint
XP had no real competition. Windows 8 faces well entrenched competition, much
of it brutally undercutting MS on price and offering considerably better
integration with their smartphone of choice (unless you're the %4 of
smartphone users on WP7).

~~~
numo16
I blame Verizon for my not having a WP7 phone. I refuse to switch over to AT&T
and Sprint coverage is hit or miss in my area, but I still hold a grudge over
Verizon for not offering a better WP7 device than the HTC Trophy.

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arthulia
XP was great. There were so many worse versions of Windows. Think about Vista,
and ME.

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lovamova
Windows 8 is the best operating system available today. All you have to do to
make it work for desktop is to uninstall all the WinRT (Metro) apps. You will
end up with a really nice start menu that can be accessed quickly from a
corner.

The best new thing is suspended apps. That alone is a deal breaker over
previous versions of Windows.

This comes from a guy that has a MacBook Pro since 2007.

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WalterBright
I keep XP on an older machine because Win7 does not run DOS programs anymore,
and Win7 broke the windbg debugger.

~~~
manaskarekar
This can't be right! Whatever happened to WinXP emulation mode or Dosbox?

~~~
yuhong
Not to mention only 64-bit Win7 removed NTVDM.

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InclinedPlane
The biggest risk that Windows 8 brings is that it's not just a no brainer
upgrade. It requires training, it requires consideration of the costs and
benefits. And once you are on that road then you are on a road that could
easily lead you to non-windows alternatives. iOS or android tablets, linux
workstations, etc.

And all of this because MS was too cocky and decided to go all in on metro
instead of trying for a smoother, more gradual transition.

~~~
Mythbusters
I don't agree that there really is a big learning curve really. The training
you need is about a few minutes with the computer to know to take your mouse
to corners and the sides. Once you know the patterns its basically training
your muscle memory which for me took a couple of days.

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broham
For those who will be using Windows 8 and miss the Start Menu, Classic Shell
is a FOSS solution. <http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/>

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natmaster
This is silly. Win8 is a step backwards in usability period. You have to do a
lot more to perform the same actions.

Whereas XP was actually better.

Win8 is the ME of this decade.

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zmonkeyz
I still remember a magazine showing how you can make Windows 95 look more like
3.1 by putting folder shortcuts on the desktop :P

