

Ask HN: Is there a problem if STEM wages are kept low because of H1B workers? - indianface

Ask HN: Is there really a problem if STEM wages are kept low because of H1B workers?<p>I guess I have trouble understanding this: Many claim that there is no shortage of STEM workers in the US. And they cite the stagnant wages for this. 
My question is, if there are enough STEM workers in the US, why wouldn&#x27;t they take up the jobs, even if the wages are low? Would they prefer unemployment over a low paying job?<p>On the other hand, if they prefer taking up jobs which pay higher and for which they&#x27;re also qualified, what&#x27;s the harm in that? Are they really hurt by the low STEM wages at all, then? Who is getting hurt by this system, if at all?
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dalke
There are many ways to answer. To start with, "why wouldn't they take up the
jobs, even if the wages are low?" There aren't the jobs. There are twice as
many workers with STEM degrees as there are STEM jobs, and there are people
working STEM jobs without degrees.

The most classical economic response is that it's collective action: if no one
takes a lower wage position then the wage will stay high. Remember,

> the goal of many employers is to keep wages in check by using immigration to
> increase the supply of workers. Alan Greenspan certainly has made this
> point. Speaking at a U.S. Treasury conference on U.S. Capital Markets
> Competitiveness in 2007, Greenspan argued that, "Our skilled wages are
> higher than anywhere in the world. If we open up a significant window for
> skilled guest workers, that would suppress the skilled-wage level and end
> the concentration of income." Greenspan believes that reducing wages for
> skilled workers, including those in STEM fields, has a number of desirable
> policy outcomes. Given how active many STEM employers have been in pushing
> for increases in immigration, they appear to agree with the former Federal
> Reserve chairman that immigration limits wage growth. - [http://cis.org/no-
> stem-shortage](http://cis.org/no-stem-shortage)

It is the _goal_ of most businesses to pay low wages. It is the _goal_ of
employees to earn high wages. Idealistically, the government is supposed to
balance these factors for the benefit of the nation as whole.

Or I can answer psychologically: from the ultimatum game we know that people
will reject offers which are seen as 'unfair', and we also know that people
tend to rank more highly those like themselves. Hence, giving smaller amount
of money to foreign workers, instead of more money to local workers, seems
unfair.

You could see it as class-ist: people who went to college expect to have a
middle or upper-middle class job, so won't take a job which pays lower. I know
one marriage which broke up partially because of this factor.

Or a debt fatigue issue: paying off high student loans on a $30K/year is much
harder than on $60K/year, and being in major debt for decades can wear one
down and make one irritated over the situation.

Or bait-and-switch: we were told that a computer engineering degree would be
worthwhile, and spent years working to get the degree, only to find out we
were told a lie, and now we want to take the anger out.

Or a control one: a company may prefer to hire a foreign worker, whose
employment and residency both depends in part on the whim of the employer, vs.
a local worker who is more free to speak out about illegal or improper working
conditions. (This is an aspect of keeping wages low, but I think it's
important to point out in its own right.)

Or a loss-of-passion issue: you implied the only tradeoff was between
employment or low-paying job and that money was the key issue. If the STEM job
pays too low, people will work in other fields, even if they would rather be
working in the career they were trained for and love. If you need the money
for your family you'll take a boring, soul sucking job for the extra
$10,000/year. The exchange rate between money and happiness is not so clear
cut as you suggest.

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chrisbennet
"My question is, if there are enough STEM workers in the US, why wouldn't they
take up the jobs, even if the wages are low? Would they prefer unemployment
over a low paying job?"

They _do_ take up the resulting lower paying stem jobs if they can find them.

If there isn't enough demand for STEM workers, their wages are depressed. If
you make your living doing STEM stuff, this Isn't Good. It's great for
employers though. That is why they love the virtual indentured servant system
(H1B).

Think about it. How would you feel if _your_ wages were lowered because
employers colluded to lower them by saying "We don't have enough workers!." \-
when there were already plenty? They just wanted _cheaper_ workers in order to
accrue and even larger portion of the wealth form themselves.

