
Introducing Google Helpouts - hiroaki
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2013/11/introducing-helpouts-help-when-you-need.html
======
cromwellian
Reader derangement syndrome strikes again. Summarizing the thread, if you're
are an early adopter of anything, you run the risk it won't be here in a year.
That's what we tolerate in the tech arena, start ups throwing lots of good and
dumb ideas at the wall to see what sticks, evolution in action. How many
people who built their business on Facebook's F8 platform went belly up due to
changes?

Google is a company that is constantly experimenting with new products and
services. Yes, some of them will fail. That's the cost of innovation. It's
really sad we've forgotten that. Failure is an acceptable risk to move
forward. If you're risk averse, leave the opportunity to others to jump in and
place their bets if Helpouts is a winning platform for them.

~~~
swombat
The problem is not a history of killing failed product, it's a history of
killing products that everyone is actually using, without giving it as much of
a chance as a company of Google's resources might be expected to, for
political reasons rather than practical reasons.

As a couple of good examples: Google Wave was created to give the Rasmussen
brothers (creators of Google Maps) something high-profile to do. Then it was
launched in a disastrously bad way (closed beta? for a new communication tool
meant to replace email?). Then as adoption started to build (but not quick
enough to satisfy the political needs of the project), Wave was yanked after
just a year.

Google Reader became a cornerstone of the web's infrastructure, a public
utility service that cost comparatively little, returned perhaps little other
than good will, but ultimately served a purpose for millions of users. But
that wasn't enough for Google, so they yanked it.

In both cases, there was no real alternative path offered. Google just made an
internal political decision to yank a project, and that's that. The public
never even got the option to try and support the project.

Based on the above and other less high-profile examples, I'm not willing to
invest my time as an early adopter in a company that has the deep pockets to
fund long-shot projects, but doesn't have the balls to follow them through to
their exciting conclusions.

Google Wave was a very exciting development with a lot of promise. Google
Reader could have been evolved further and become an even more important piece
of infrastructure, with all the good will associated with that. Instead, both
are now black splotches on Google's reputation, in my view at least.

~~~
mistermann
Did anyone continue to run with the Google Wave idea? I'd be interested in
using a tool like that, it showed a lot of promise.

~~~
jsight
Apache Wave (I believe the intial code was contributed by Google):
[http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-
code.html](http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html)

I don't think it has gained much traction, though.

------
xb95
This would help with the times I've just wanted to ask someone "so, does this
shirt actually go with these pants, or am I totally crazy?"

All joking aside, this could be interesting. It makes me think of that service
that existed for a while where you could ask a question of a topic area, and
it would send an IM to people and ask them to answer it. I forget what it was
called, but I used it for a little while.

The payment/HIPAA compliance aspect are pretty interesting, too. I would
easily throw $50 at a 10 minute consult with a doctor instead of having to
make an appointment and haul myself in to the local clinic. Particularly if
said doctor could then fax a prescription for something completely boring but
still not OTC to my local pharmacy.

~~~
BrandonY
Are you thinking of Aardvark? I think Google bought that a while back and then
discontinued it.

~~~
ekianjo
Aardvark was great at the time. I especially loved the integration with gmail,
it made it very seamless to think about something and just drop a question in
a couple of seconds. It's a shame they stopped it.

------
dingaling
An interesting new avenue for Google, where the results and satisfaction are
entirely subjective, according to perception of the customer.

With search results or Gmail they can hand-wave away dis-satisfaction my
saying the 99th percentile are happy, but this is one-on-one. I can see the
Money Back Guarantee being quite a support burden.

But _why_ are Google doing this? It's not really "organizing the World's
information" because it keeps knowledge compartmentalised in the 'experts'.

~~~
bambax
Agreed. It may be useful but I don't see how it fits Google's overall mission;
Google Answers were more relevant and they killed it (a long time ago).

Maybe the strategy is to eventually make sessions public? which would actually
add value for the community.

Or it's a cheap ploy to get people to use Google+ (and if so, good luck with
that).

~~~
ewzimm
This is the core concept of organizing the world's information. If you think
otherwise, you don't realize that the majority of the world's information is
held by individuals for brief periods of time and specific to its application.
The generalized consensus has already been archived, but insights into
emergent things that come up in life have not. Connecting people with each
other to give advice about situations that can't be predicted but can be
categorized is the next step.

------
anon1385
>Today, we’re announcing Helpouts—a new way to get and give help over live
video.

I'm confused, hasn't this existed for months? Here is an earlier HN
discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248771](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248771)

~~~
abrahamsen
This is the public release.

~~~
rahul286
It still asks for invitation code. I think its not fully open yet!

------
saiko-chriskun
Am I the only one that doesn't understand all the google hate? (about
discontinuing a few of their products)

~~~
josephlord
Many people were of the belief that Google was primarily motivated to be
good[1] and bring benefits to the internet and if they made some money for
shareholders that would be nice too[2]. They were (and still are) massively
trusted.

Closing down services and increasing the ad prominence in search, turning into
the big bureaucratic bully rather than the small snappy startup has come as a
nasty shock to a number of people and they then feel betrayed and angry at
Google. It is precisely those who trusted them most who are most angry.

The irrational love has now flipped (for many not all) into irrational hate
(to use your word).

Those on the sidelines who never trusted Google enough to look after their
mail might find both the love and the hatred overblown but many people feel
heavily dependent on Google with Android phones, Gmail accounts and using
Google Docs heavily. They worry not just about the current situation but what
might come next.

[1] "don't be evil"

[2] I seem to recall the IPO prospectus didn't make shareholder returns seem a
very high priority.

------
rurounijones
This could be a great way to monetize skills.

Youtube channel with tutorials, how-to's etc. to build up your credibility.

Google Helpouts to help people directly when they want to go beyond the
tutorials or get that little extra.

------
sachitgupta
Remarkably similar to sites like
[https://clarity.fm/home](https://clarity.fm/home) and
[https://www.popexpert.com/](https://www.popexpert.com/)

------
adamzerner
This feels like "online tutoring to me". And as far as tutoring goes, I feel
like most of the time it's better to automate it. Like using treehouse instead
of getting a programming tutor.

I could see some situations where it'd be useful though.

\- If you have a quick question and are really frustrated and are willing to
pay.

\- Sometimes you care a lot or have a lot of money, and are willing to get a
tutor.

\- Some things (like doctor appointments) might be better served online than
in person.

~~~
intellegacy
Yep, they're targeting tutors. They contacted me (SAT Tutor) and got me to
signup. I haven't completed the registration yet as they want me to schedule a
phone interview with them and I don't see how it can help me yet.

------
robinwarren
For anyone interested in a tech specific version of this there is a site
[http://anyfu.com/](http://anyfu.com/) (I'm a fan but not associated).

I believe this model for connecting people for very brief engagements over the
internet is an interesting one. With the educational model being pushed by
companies like Coursera I could see something like this becoming popular for
access to tutors or even peers studying the same subject. For quick help
solving a problem there is obviously a problem of getting to sufficient scale
in a 2-sided market place. Perhaps google will achieve that. I suppose the
risk is becoming the yahoo answers or the expersexchange of the space.

------
ancarda
My initial reaction is "cool, but I won't use it as it'll be shutdown soon
enough". I wonder if enough people avoid new Google products due to shutdown
fears so it leads to a product ultimately being shutdown due to neglect.

A bit of a vicious cycle.

~~~
detst
> I wonder if enough people avoid new Google products due to shutdown fears
> [...]

I doubt it. That attitude is mostly a HN/geek thing. I like that they're
willing to try things and test for viability in the real world. I'd rather
have something and for it go away than to never have it at all. (And yes, I do
understand the frustrations with Reader but I wouldn't go back in time and
never use it from the start)

~~~
ancarda
This wasn't about Reader specifically. Google has shutdown a lot of products.
The latest being Google Checkout, which makes people nervous of building their
business on Google's software. Since this service is paid, I could be netting
a lot of money through it, only for it to fizzle out.

~~~
detst
> Since this service is paid, I could be netting a lot of money through it,
> only for it to fizzle out.

But that's true of _any_ service from any company. If I'm a stay-at-home mom
making some extra cash on Helpouts, I have a very different risk profile than
a doctor who closes down his practice to see patients exclusively through
Helpouts. The stay-at-home mom might not be happy about a shutdown but she
still "[netted] a lot of money" whereas the doctor might have destroyed
his/her career. Every individual/company needs to assess their own risk and
take the appropriate risk-mitigating actions.

The point I'm making is that the damages from a Google service shutdown are
typically very low or easily mitigated (Google Checkout being no exception)
and every service should be evaluated on an individual basis with your risk
profile. If the value you are getting from any service is lower than the
damages that would result from a shutdown, don't put all of your eggs in that
basket; if you do anyway, get some contractual guarantees and be confident
that they will be fulfilled.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
> get some contractual guarantees and be confident that they fill be
> fulfilled.

In that case, no services that Google offers should be used. They don’t give
any guarantees, not even to their paying customers.

~~~
detst
They have deprecation policies in at least some cases. They may not be
unconditional guarantees but they're still just risk factors to be evaluated
individually. I have no problem with the risk averse avoiding any services for
their own reasons but it's gone beyond that in many cases here on HN to pure
FUD. In any case, you've taken that clause out of context.

------
jroseattle
The idea of a marketplace for experts is intriguing. I can't imagine this will
ever work well, though.

\- Google is presently curating this list, approving everyone who would be a
provider. This is fine for launch, but this obviously needs to scale.

\- From a functional standpoint, this is the Human App Store. How do I, the
provider, promote myself among thousands of search results for underwater-
basket-weaving experts?

\- Race to the bottom: I don't associate Google with any sort of premium
pricing model. If I think my services are worth more than the low-cost
providers, but I'm one of a thousand providers, am I going to have to go the
only other route Google tends to provide -- paid advertising placement?

The idea is interesting, but I don't think Google will ever position it to be
helpful to anyone but users and themselves.

------
nodata
So this is a solution to the "problem" of people looking up how to do
something on youtube, now you can ask an expert and get detailed two-way
feedback.

~~~
draugadrotten
This will fail. Why? Because the financial incentives of the helper are set up
wrong, "paid by the minute" will reward slow talkers and slow help. This will
make customers unhappy and customers will choose help from cheaper, faster
sources.

The DYI video success will be better the shorter and better the video is, and
I'd rather pay-per-video. If I wanted to talk to a human, there are millions
nearby in the city. A DYI video can explain in 2-3 minutes what will take a
human 60 minutes in a meeting including greetings and other social fluff.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Because the financial incentives of the helper are set up wrong, "paid by
> the minute" will reward slow talkers and slow help.

Most of the listings are listed with either the form "$X per Helpout" or "$X
per Helpout _or_ $Y per minute". So, it doesn't look like paid by the minute
is either the only supported or even the dominant model. So this objection
seems misplaced.

> The DYI video success will be better the shorter and better the video is,
> and I'd rather pay-per-video.

Canned DIY videos are widely available, and serve a different need that
person-to-person consultation.

> If I wanted to talk to a human, there are millions nearby in the city.

Not everyone lives in or near a city with millions of people. And not all
those millions in the city are experts in the field that you are concerned
about.

> A DYI video can explain in 2-3 minutes what will take a human 60 minutes in
> a meeting including greetings and other social fluff.

Sure, if there is a specific enough DIY video, that may be the case. OTOH,
finding a specific-enough DIY video for a particular need can be a hassle, and
in many cases of not particularly common specific needs may not be practical.

(Plus, its quite possible for the experts that do Helpouts to do DIY videos,
and to identify good opportunities for DIY videos from what questions they get
through Helpouts. Its not a one-way communication.)

------
yanivs
Looks good but just not something that fits Google's DNA. A smaller & hungrier
startup could have been a better place for this kind of marketplace

~~~
risratorn
The first thing I thought when I read that was "they launch this after they
shut down stuff like Google Reader".

I guess it's all about making money now for google. If something is profitable
it has to go :(

~~~
pestaa
You meant _not_ profitable, right?

------
jsonne
It's interesting that Google seems to be moving into the freelance space. I
wonder if they're going to stay in the limited fashion, or expand to go after
Odesk etc.

------
X4
Personally I really love this idea, but isn't anyone else seriously concerned
that Google is taking over the whole `World's Information Economy`?

I think BuyOuts should be regulated, this could help the whole industry and
econmy. Google should probably be fined with multi billion penalties for using
their monopoly power.

    
    
         • ISP's with Google Fiber
         • PayPal and Banking Industry → Google Wallet + Google Checkout
         • Automobile Industry → Google Car
         • TelCo's → Android+Nexus (a google plan soon?)
         • Small Businesses in "successfull niche sectors" → BuyOuts
         • RIAA, Music and Video Industry → Google Play
         • Energy Industry → "Energy startup" BuyOuts
         • Spy Agencies → =sumOf(Google Products)
         • …And even more that I've not listed, or that is to come…
    

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products)

\-- IMHO: (Services stealing the market of businesses, who lost their job or
company should be paid their loss. Services not focusing on their main product
should be forced to get closed, or get opened up to the public. I know this is
very harsh and I don't think that all of this is necessary or should really be
done, but someone has to stop Google from acting so dominantly and
strategically. They're aiming for world leadership, nothing less and are
killing every enemy sector, one by one. This is not a paranoid act of me to
boycott Google. I use their services every day. But I don't want them to kill
every other sector, just because they're not innovating as fast as Google can
(by forcing innovators to a BuyOut with millon/billion dollor offers).)

------
mikeevans
Shameless plug, but if you want to try out a Helpout, or learn a little
Android development, you can check out my listing here:

[https://helpouts.google.com/114052868601022948953/ls/a65184a...](https://helpouts.google.com/114052868601022948953/ls/a65184ab017ae8b0)

------
eliot_sykes
I wonder if there's something in this that could be used to provide extra
income to open source contributors.

I'd be interested to see GitHub experiment with providing their own service
like this for the open source projects it hosts.

A project could designate certain contributors as experts and say you're
having a problem with that project, you could talk with an expert via GitHub,
for a per-minute fee, with an optional minimum of 15 minutes (for example).

I'd guess it'd be more likely to succeed by being right there integrated in
GitHub's UI, rather than shoehorning just a link to Google Helpouts or another
service into a project's README.

------
swansw
At this point I don't even know what will convince me that stuff like this
that Google releases isn't yet another dead-in-a-year product. We've seen a
number of great service being killed just in the past few months alone. What
makes this any different?

My only advice to kids is: don't make this something you depend on. Remember
if you aren't paying for it, you're the product, and Google could care less
about you and your silly needs when it comes time for some Spring Cleaning™.

~~~
oliciv
You may think that you're blowing peoples' minds with that "you're the
product" line - but if you're literally selling your skills then that is the
whole point - it's a positive!

------
ChuckMcM
The comments here show an interesting legacy that Google is developing. The
lack of durability in its products.

I think the helpout concept is great, although only a small step up from the
fact that for many things there is a youtube video it seems explaining how to
do something. But it could be killer in education, specifically is MOOCs are
the new college, what is the new TA? This could work there.

------
gz5
I signed up in the beta, mainly to learn how Google is approaching this.
Observations:

\+ High degree of curation and investment in quality \+ High investment of
people to achieve the above

For example, I did a live video interview with a knowledgeable Google rep and
she had several recommendations. About a week later, my submission was
reviewed again, with even more (good) recommendations.

------
fpp
Anybody looked at the pricing of some of the services offered - e.g. end user:

help with your printer - $45 per help - $2 per minute (guess that will always
be more than the printer was actually retailing for)

General computer help $10 (per incident) $2 per minute

maybe contact your printer / computer support team first - many today have
online / real-time chat features now for free.

------
7Figures2Commas
Interesting product. As others have pointed out, there are a number of similar
services, many of them vertically-focused.

Google says it's starting small, but Helpouts is already quite broad. Covering
lots of subjects won't be such a problem if Google leverages search and
YouTube to promote relevant providers, but I'm not sure it will.

------
atmosx
Can someone explain to me what's the difference between this and a
skype/FaceTime session? Because I am confused.

~~~
code_duck
It is a 3rd party arranged video chat between strangers intended to fulfill a
specified purpose, involving a payment and reputation system.

How is that different than a skype/FaceTime session? The video interaction
part is likely similar. But a mere video chat session is a much more general
idea than this specific use of video chat.

------
javadi82
My take on this is that Google is using Helpouts to figure out - what are the
queries people cannot use Google for.

------
fourstar
It's almost as if Google answers has been somewhat resurrected. Definitely
keeping an eye on this.

------
panabee
wonder if this will get integrated into google search results as a way to help
users with subjective questions not well addressed by google search ... e.g.,
search for "best way to bake a cake" and see as an option the ability to chat
with an expert live.

------
ChikkaChiChi
Google's biggest enemy will continue to be themselves. If they are unable to
promote and market this save for a few blog postings (as is their want to so
often do) then it will die on the vine...just like so many other projects of
theirs they can.

------
ilaksh
I wonder if this uses WebRTC. Or regardless maybe I should make a clone using
WebRTC.

------
kmfrk
Makes perfect sense to piggyback on the success of DIY/how-to guides on
YouTube, but that said, I have idea whether it's going to catch on.

Clearly Google should try this out either way.

------
jmotion
So what technologies is this using for streaming etc..

~~~
rurounijones
My guess would be WebRTC or whatever it is google hangouts use at the moment.

------
mostelato
Skype used to have something like this in 2006-ish...

------
nathanb
The only way I would consider using this service is if Google started
advertising paid support of their own products on it.

------
bdcravens
Feels less Odesk, more Clarity.fm to me

------
ivanbrussik
interesting, we'll see if consumers pick this up. I personally just think it
is somehow another way to funnel people into G+.

Sidenote: 71 indexed pages site:helpouts.google.com thusfar.

------
amaks
This is obviously a Google's version of Mechanical Turk

------
salilpa
Is this some way of popularizing hangouts?

------
fit2rule
Congratulations Google, you just re-invented IRC.

~~~
diminoten
Yeah, pay-per-assist interactive 1:1 video.

Basically IRC.

~~~
fit2rule
Clue: you don't need the video part.

------
banachtarski
My kneejerk reaction is to wonder when this will go the way of Google Wave and
Google Reader.

~~~
patrickaljord
How original. A comment mentioning reader and wave on a new Google product
announcement thread. Can we move on already? Innovating companies try and fail
a lot, like any startups.

~~~
banachtarski
Who said Reader and Wave "tried and failed?" I _liked_ those products.

