
Maryland will audit all votes cast in general election - walterbell
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-sun-investigates-election-audit-20161105-story.html
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j2kun
On days like this I dream of a world in which every citizen has a key pair
assigned by the government for the purpose of interacting with the government.

It could work like this: you get the private/public key pair provided in your
passport, or on a special social-security-type card. The public key is also on
a website registered to your name, so anyone can look up your public key.
However, in order to be allowed to sign anything, you have to be in the
presence of a government agent who can verify your identity via a second means
(e.g., at the DMV, your driver's license + social), and then the government
agent signs it as well. So there's no _less_ verification of your identity in
the system as before, but anyone can quickly verify the authenticity of your
documents.

~~~
lisper
> On days like this I dream of a world in which every citizen has a key pair
> assigned by the government

I understand and fully sympathize with the spirit of this idea, but it is very
important to understand that it cannot be the government who assigns a key
pair. It has to be _you_ who _generates_ the key pair, and registers the
public key -- and _only_ the public key -- with the government. And the
registration process has to be such that no one can register a key that they
have generated on your behalf. Getting such a process to really work can be
quite tricky, even trickier than conducting an election the old fashioned way.

~~~
j2kun
Is this just because you don't trust the government not to use your secret key
for nefarious purposes? Because if that's the case I feel like you wouldn't
participate in the civic system at all... Like forget signing your vote you
just wouldn't vote.

~~~
lisper
> Is this just because you don't trust the government not to use your secret
> key for nefarious purposes?

That too. But mainly it's because I don't trust the government (or anyone else
for that matter) to keep my secret key _secret_.

~~~
j2kun
But you trust them to keep your vote secret, you trust them to keep national
secrets secret, etc. I get that this is a big single point of failure that
would be really difficult to fix if it was leaked. But the general default
trust in the government to not, e.g, leak your SSN or vote... if you don't
have that then the whole conversation is a nonstarter.

~~~
lisper
Actually, no, I generally do not trust the government to keep secrets. That is
why I would be very upset if my ballot had my name on it. As for SSN's, they
were never intended to be secret, and using them as an authenticator is a
Really Bad Idea (not that that stops anyone). But anyone who wanted to know my
SSN could find it easily.

Defense secrets are a little different. It's not so much that I _trust_ the
government to keep them as that I believe that the government is
_incentivized_ to keep them because that advances the government's interests.
But even then there are exceptions when the stakes are high, c.f. Ed Snowden.

------
sidlls
I'm not sure I'll ever accept the results of an election that doesn't have a
full and public counting of all the ballots cast.

~~~
rmah
Good thing every election in the USA has a full and public counting of all
ballots cast.

~~~
XorNot
The US excessive use of automated vote counting machines does not inspire
confidence.

Australia has a total hand count with machine verification (if they disagree
the hand count is redone) and party observers.

Combined with mandatory voting I have total confidence in our system as one of
the best in the world.

~~~
bsbechtel
Mandatory voting is common in many places outside of the US, but I feel like
it's something that can lead down a dangerous path. You shouldn't be compelled
to choose a leader if you disapprove of the choices, I think that's a freedom
I think everyone deserves.

~~~
XorNot
You're not compelled to choose. You're compelled to cast a ballot. Which can
express disapproval for all choices.

~~~
bsbechtel
Then what's the point? What value does that add besides wasting the voter and
the vote counter's time?

~~~
jhasse
That everyone's time get wasted. You don't have a disadvantage when you decide
to actually vote.

~~~
bsbechtel
I should also add you aren't liable to be punished by your government for not
voting.

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protomyth
Anyone know anything about the company that was hired? (Clear Ballot)

~~~
wes-k
Interviewed with them a few years ago. Cool tech and legit mission of making
it easier to verify ballots.

~~~
specialist
Thanks. I haven't paid attention for a few years. I just scanned their
website. A new challenger emerges. Already certified (for use) in OR and NY,
with others in the pipeline. Very impressive, considering the certification
body is owned and operated by the incumbent vendors.

While it's certainly worthwhile to have more competitors, with better wares...

I'll only support open source, citizen owned software. The strangle hold the
election system vendors have on our elections is deplorable. And it's not like
this stuff is rocket science.

~~~
anonbanker
Can we just go ahead and replace the name "Open Source" with "Citizen Owned",
while keeping the concepts identical?

~~~
grzm
How are they the same? You can have open source software that is completely
controlled by a private entity. There are many different open source licenses.

~~~
anonbanker
corporations are not persons anymore?

citizens aren't private entities anymore?

------
anonbanker
So, basically, everyone's preparing for this election to drag out worse than
Bush v. Gore did, which ultimately led to the Supreme Court deciding the
election.

Anyone think this election will end on November 8th?

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rbcgerard
It seems like generally there are two problems:

1\. votes not being counted properly

2\. Improper votes being cast

This seems like it only addresses #1

~~~
ivraatiems
As a matter of fact, for the record, neither of these things is actually a
particularly big problem in the United States.[1][2][3][4]

[1] [http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-finds-no-
evidence-...](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-finds-no-evidence-
widespread-voter-fraud-n637776) [2]
[https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-
fraud](https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud) [3]
[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/voter-id-laws-donald-
tr...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/voter-id-laws-donald-trump.html)
[4] [http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-
meter/statements/2016/oct/...](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-
meter/statements/2016/oct/17/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-
large-scale-voter-f/)

~~~
wheelerwj
Ahhh yes, the famous, main stream media said everything was fine so I went
back to work argument.

To be fair, most of the problems we are currently having seem to revolve
around gerry mandering with potential issues arising in the future involving
tampering with electronic voting.

That doesn't mean voter supression, identity theft, and other forms of
tampering aren't legitimate concerns though.

For example, heres article from MSM that investigates people who have been
dead for years are still voting:

[https://www.google.com/amp/losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/05/2...](https://www.google.com/amp/losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/05/23/cbs2-investigation-
uncovers-votes-being-cast-from-grave-year-after-year/amp/?client=ms-android-
tmobile-us)

~~~
ivraatiems
I didn't say "isn't a problem." I said "isn't a particularly big problem." In
an electorate where millions of people vote every year, a few thousand votes
in a non-swing state (using the example you mentioned), or even a few thousand
fake votes in _every_ state, is just not that high a rate of fraud.

There is rhetoric now as though _most_ or _all_ voting is subject to this kind
of fraud, that the fraud is _massive_. It just isn't. That doesn't mean it
doesn't exist or shouldn't be stopped, but threats must be dealt with
proportionally to the degree that they are threatening. Your reaction strikes
me as disproportional.

~~~
wheelerwj
A small amount of fraud has the same effect as widescale fraud because it
contaminates the entire process, seeding distrust.

~~~
specialist
Fraud is indistinguishable from error.

Ignore intent and focus on prevention, like a QA/test person would. I'm kinda
thick headed, so it took me too long to figure this out on my own.

~~~
wheelerwj
"Plan for the worst, hope for the best."

It doesn't matter why something happens, only that it happens.

------
tomohawk
Not sure that will help things like this:

[https://youtu.be/nfgEvgVC6Qs](https://youtu.be/nfgEvgVC6Qs)

EDIT: Based on comments - this is a video that records the president stating
that people in the country illegally (non-citizens) should not fear any
repercussions from voting in the election.

~~~
tomohawk
Love the downvotes with no comments. The post is about the integrity of the
voting process, and the link I provide goes right to that topic.

~~~
c3534l
It's someone with a video camera pointed at their screen breathing heavily.
Just post the original video:
[https://youtu.be/oLLt-a6dI_0?t=203](https://youtu.be/oLLt-a6dI_0?t=203)

Also, if you watch his entire response it's clear he interpreted the question
as a person legally able to vote, but has family members who are undocumented
and are afraid of voting for that reason.

That said, it does sound really bad. Especially how nonchalant the president
is about breaking immigration laws.

~~~
ska
Is it nonchalent about immigration laws, or is it just that he is much more
interested in the protection of the ability of every person with a right to
vote to exercise that right without coercion, particularly from a government
agency? To my mind the latter is much more fundamental and important than the
former.

