
Small guide to making nice tables [pdf] - murkle
https://inf.ethz.ch/personal/markusp/teaching/guides/guide-tables.pdf
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Upvoter33
Tufte has a lot to say about this (and many viz things) - worth reading his
books, really. The general guideline I try to remember is "facilitate
comparison" (present things that you want the viewer to compare/see near each
other) and "maximize data/ink ratio" (put as much data, and as little other
stuff, on the page). The latter, in particular, tells us to reduce lines from
tables as much as possible; I often find just one (not the three this approach
recommends) to be plenty, depending on the data. That is, just the line
separating header and data. Of course, YMMV :)

~~~
mrpigeonpants
Great points! Those are wonderful design principles, and can really help
everyone in evaluating the layout of a table.

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redbergy
I found the lack of any horizontal line separating rows in the given examples
of good tables off-putting. In the examples given from The Economist they are
using horizontal lines and I agree those are great examples.

~~~
hammock
In most cases they are using dotted horizontal line which is better than a
solid line.

In Google Slides or Excel it's easy to use low-contrast shading between dark
and light backgrounds which is another less-intrusive way to delineate rows
without using a solid line.

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uxcolumbo
Here is a good guide to apply to tables used on the web

[https://alistapart.com/article/web-typography-
tables/](https://alistapart.com/article/web-typography-tables/)

~~~
yosamino
I'm fond of the condensed way similar advice is presented here:
[https://www.darkhorseanalytics.com/portfolio/2016/1/7/data-l...](https://www.darkhorseanalytics.com/portfolio/2016/1/7/data-
looks-better-naked-clear-off-the-table?rq=tables)

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mrpigeonpants
Weighing in as a UX designer. I appreciate the attempt to encourage people to
think about design, but this guide has issues.

What's wrong with the advice:

-Removing horizontal lines decreases readability in the complex examples given

-Vertical lines are very helpful when there are more than three columns

-Serifs have actually been found to be more readable due to their distinct letterforms and can be comprehended more quickly. San-serif fonts are fine too though. Basically, choose a font that has good legibility.

-Don't rely on light gray lines, because they might not be visible on all screens, or in various environments, and likely won't translate to print

-Double horizontal lines for column headers are fine.

-Overall, if you're presenting important information, usability is much more important than minor aesthetics.

Here are some more actual tips for laying out tables:

-Ensure that if a horizontal line needs to be scannable, that it actually has enough padding, or a horizontal separator, be it a dotted line or some other type of visible anchor

-If columns have a lot of information, a table may not be sufficient. Consider aggregating individual rows into a card format.

-Padding is your friend. Also, be consistent with it. A table with too little, but consistent padding looks better than one with more breathing room and inconsistent padding.

-Most information should be aligned left. One exception is currency. That should be aligned right

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chrisseaton
You're just countering his subjective opinion with your subjective opinion.

It's like he said he prefers cherry pie, and you're saying 'no that advice has
issues, I prefer apple pie.'

~~~
kemitche
Sure but is that a problem?

If the originally submitted guide is admittedly subjective, then it seems like
sharing different subjective viewpoints (with reasoning) in HN comments is a
great idea. If it's a subjective thing, I'd rather hear from several
viewpoints before making decisions about how to handle my own tables.

~~~
chrisseaton
How can subjective advice be 'wrong' though? How can there be an 'issue' with
what someone likes the look of?

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thatoneuser
Well if you're posting it publicly and claiming "this is better" then you're
either wrong or open to criticism.

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bonoboTP
I make my tables like this guide recommends, but more because I know that it's
the "professional", "publication quality" way that the people "in the know"
prefer. I myself don't really feel that strongly about vertical lines but I
avoid them to not look ignorant.

It says a lot that the first slide doesn't even say which is the good one and
takes is for granted ("Easy decision, isn’t it?") but some here have thought
the bad ones are the good ones.

Shows that it's more of a fashion thing. (Not counting the intentional
mistakes in the "bad version" like kerning "fi lter" and other spacing errors
in the math, like the exponent in the top right formula -- seriously why
introduce those additional mistakes, why not just make the tables themselves
different?)

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bjourne
> It says a lot that the first slide doesn't even say which is the good one
> and takes is for granted ("Easy decision, isn’t it?") but some here have
> thought the bad ones are the good ones.

It's because people on HN loves to be contrarians. The tables with the double
lines really do look like garbage. The examples aren't doctored. One variant
is what you get with Latex's builtin table commands, the other with the
booktabs package.

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irrational
This is talking about print tables. Do the same design principles apply to
online tables?

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open-source-ux
Yes, many of the rules do. Here is a presentation by Richard Rutter (co-
founder of a design agency and an online font service) on Web Typography. The
presentation includes advice on how to improvement table readability and
appearance.

Link to the segment on tables (approx 7 mins length):

 _Set tables to be read_

[https://youtu.be/hbIZX6tE9JY?t=704](https://youtu.be/hbIZX6tE9JY?t=704)

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pgtan
Page 10/11: -94.7351 etc. is so wrong, my eyes are bleeding! Should be typeset
in math mode like $-94.7351$ (or whole column in math) to get at least the
minus sign right.

~~~
michaelcampbell
What about it is "wrong"? Perhaps I'm scarred by my own institution's
predilection of left-justifying (or center) columns of numbers that this seems
fine to me.

~~~
dmlorenzetti
As shown, the minus sign is rendered as a hyphen. This looks glaring when
you're used to math mode's thinner, longer minus sign.

To see the difference, typeset this with LaTeX:

    
    
        \documentclass{standalone}
        \begin{document}
        -50 vs $-50$
        \end{document}

~~~
michaelcampbell
Gotcha, thanks. Hardly "eye-bleed" worthy IMO, but noticeable for sure.

~~~
anjbe
Ever since realizing that a minus sign is supposed to line up with a plus,
I’ve never been able to unsee it. Compare:

-Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet

+Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet

−Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet

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loco5niner
I thought the "bad" tables were the "good" tables until I was 6 pages in.

To each his own, I guess.

~~~
digitalni
Same here. You're not alone

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papln
Those "nice" tables are not very nice.

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Isamu
Here is the advice:

\- Avoid vertical lines

\- Avoid “boxing up” cells, usually 3 horizontal lines are enough: above,
below, and after heading (see examples in this guide)

\- Avoid double horizontal lines

\- Enough space between rows

\- If in doubt, align left

I agree with this, although some of his examples I would tweak slightly, and
sometimes I wonder about how much better "align left" ends up working.

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ivanhoe
IMHO author is missing the point here, lines are not just arbitrary
decoration, they've got an important purpose to guide the eye. If line is
removed, it needs to be replaced by enough white space that will separate the
content visually. The 1st example fails horribly with this, it's impossible to
see where the 2nd row begins without reading the whole text. Also, the longer
a row/column is, harder it is to follow the separation and line is a better
choice in those cases (or more spacing is needed). There's nothing
particularly special about these "rules", they're just the normal typography
practices and some common sense applied to tables.

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lazzlazzlazz
These tables are almost unusable. They look better in the most superficial
possible way. They're more "pleasant", but absolutely not better for a serious
use-case.

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uptownfunk
This is some good advice for making PPTs or Excel spreadsheets as well.

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fuzzieozzie
Bulma.io does most of this (web site tables!)

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lstamour
(2010)

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garettmd
I was honestly expecting (and hoping) this was an article on carpentry...

~~~
keeganjw
Haha same. Disappointing.

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simonebrunozzi
For a moment I thought this was a guide for physical tables (like the ones you
use to have dinner).

~~~
kawfey
Likewise...with HN you never know what esoteric guide or advice lies beneath a
somewhat vague headline, and in almost every case it's unexpectedly convenient
or interesting.

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thatoneuser
No offense but when you compared and said which is better - I had to read the
rest of the slides to figure out which one was supposed to be better. Too many
lines is gaudy but also can provide high level information. Too little lines
might look "nice" in its own sense but then you have a lot of double checking.

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eatbitseveryday
> The following tables are taken from the magazine Economist

The Economist is in fact a newspaper.

Edit: do people think this is a snobby comment? The Economist maintains this
despite publishing in a medium which looks like a magazine.

~~~
papln
Getting offended on behalf of others is controversial in general, but in this
case it's plain silly.

URL: subscription.economist.com/Magazine/Subscribe

www.economist.com/about-the-economist

> Frequently asked questions

> Why does The Economist call itself a newspaper?

> [...] By the time the transformation from newspaper to magazine format had
> been completed, the habit of referring to ourselves as “this newspaper” had
> stuck.

