
Ice confirmed at the Moon’s poles - daegloe
https://phys.org/news/2018-08-ice-moon-poles.amp
======
excalibur
> With enough ice sitting at the surface—within the top few millimeters—water
> would possibly be accessible as a resource for future expeditions to explore
> and even stay on the Moon, and potentially easier to access than the water
> detected beneath the Moon's surface.

OR: It could be collected, shipped back to earth, bottled, and sold to the
wealthy at ludicrous prices.

~~~
dawnerd
I think the wealthy would rather take a vacation to the moon.

~~~
excalibur
Likely, but the ice-mining scheme will be much easier to pull off, and will
therefore be possible sooner, and is therefore more likely to be the primary
means by which these resources are exploited.

~~~
zipwitch
To save mass (and thus cost) they'll probably dehydrate the water before
shipping it back to Earth. Their target market won't care.

~~~
excalibur
Or they could sell it in different concentrations. You can get 1% moonwater
for $1000/bottle, or 99% moonwater for $100K/bottle.

~~~
toast0
I think you could do better selling it homeopathic. 1x10^-12 is way more
expensive!

~~~
glandium
10^-12 is only a 6C dilution. The dilution advocated by Hahnemann is 30C,
which is 10^-60. Oscillococcinum is at 200C (10^-400).

------
Aspos
So, moon base at a pole can have: 1\. Direct sunlight at all times 2\. Direct
LOS comms to Earth 3\. Access to water.

Am I correct?

~~~
kajecounterhack
Wrong on #1: moon doesn't have direct sunlight at all times.

[https://imgur.com/a/rOyNvDG](https://imgur.com/a/rOyNvDG)

~~~
Aspos
Aren't poles always illuminated?

~~~
8_hours_ago
"No peaks of eternal light have been positively identified on the moon, but
many peaks have been detected that, via simulations based on imaging and laser
and radar topography, appear to be illuminated for greater than 80% of a lunar
year."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_of_eternal_light](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_of_eternal_light)

------
akshayB
Just a question, is there any reason why whenever we detect frozen water its
on the north pole or south pole of any circular object in solar system? I
guess ones of them is sun heating up everything in the equator region.

~~~
glitchc
brundolf's response plus atmosphere, which can diffuse energy from near the
equator to other parts of the planet via convection, although Venus ice caps
are still colder than Earth's, so not sure anymore... The universe is a
complex place.

~~~
jacobush
The ice caps hiding under an atmosphere of burning sulphuric acid at hundreds
of degrees!?

------
mirimir
I wonder why it took several years for this analysis to be done and published.
I mean, the data was presumably collected during 2008-2010 or so.

~~~
InclinedPlane
It's almost as though science is a complex job that occasionally requires a
lot of work.

~~~
mirimir
Sure, but eight years?

Edit: What I'm getting at is that this seems a profound result, with perhaps
crucial implications. Not some minor detail, of only arcane interest.

~~~
hanniabu
If only they had a more reasonable budget for their undertakings

~~~
TangoTrotFox
I think it's important to question what this means, lest we reward inept
agencies with more money. Not to say that the agency that did take this long
would necessarily be inept, but if you give access to the sufficient data for
let's say a post-doc of appropriate background, would it be reasonable for
this single person earning scraps, as post-docs are wont to do, to take e.g. 8
years? It's just quite a peculiar issue.

------
firefoxd
Can we sand someone to double check it?

Joking aside, wow, why can't we send someone to double check it 60 years
later.

------
jaequery
Wasn't this confirmed several years ago?

~~~
kartan
From the article: "M3, aboard the Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft, launched in __2008
__by the Indian Space Research Organization, was uniquely equipped to confirm
the presence of solid ice on the Moon. It collected data that not only picked
up the reflective properties we 'd expect from ice, but was able to directly
measure the distinctive way its molecules absorb infrared light, so it can
differentiate between liquid water or vapor and solid ice."

Another source: "near the south pole of the Moon on 9 October 2009 showed the
spectral signature of hydroxyl, a key indicator that water ice is present in
the floor of the crater (1). Analysis of the results indicates concentrations
of roughly 6% water in the impact area, including nearly pure ice crystals in
some spots. "

[https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/ice/ice_moon.html](https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/ice/ice_moon.html)

------
Jdam
I was promised Moon bases, farms and hotels by now and all we got is the
information that there’s ice at the poles?!

------
ddingus
Water = fuel as much as it is important to life.

Weaker gravity well + infrastructure should = cheaper exploration.

~~~
anonytrary
This is interesting, I didn't think of it like that. You're saying the moon
should be used as a base because less energy is required to leave the moon. I
wonder if those savings amortize the up-front cost of creating a self-
sufficient moon base.

~~~
ddingus
I do too. Making that base practical and viable may include too many nasty
details. I don"t know.

------
modells
So moon crater ice sublimates slow enough to not disappear a-la Europa?

~~~
Nomentatus
That was my argument, before this article was published. The counter argument
of course, is that it does sublimate (as water does from comets), but there's
a vast amount (remains of a crashed comet, say); plus dust accumulating on the
surface seals it fairly well over time. So I'm now guessing we're not talking
"a few millimeters of water" as others have speculated, but really large
amounts.

------
idoescompooters
How does it not sublimate?

------
subcosmos
Good. We need strong customs enforcement there too. </snark>

~~~
ionwake

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

~~~
Skunkleton

        $ base64 -d ~/tmp/wtf.txt
        uZbase64: invalid input
    

Edit: I suck and forgot to remove the leading stuff. I love the internet
today. If anyone is wondering it is SFW.

~~~
52-6F-62
On mac others might want to:

    
    
        # filename - wherever you pasted the base64 string
        FILE=<filename> && base64 -D $FILE.txt >> $FILE.png && open $FILE.png

~~~
Skunkleton
* don't do this w/ random stuff off the internet. That could have easily been something other than an image, and `open` will happily open whatever it was regardless of the extension.

~~~
52-6F-62
You're 100% correct.

I can't edit it now, but you're absolutely right. Horrible gaffe on my part.

