
IBM seeks $167M from Groupon in dispute over early internet patents - Jerry2
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ibm-groupon-lawsuit/ibm-seeks-167-million-from-groupon-in-dispute-over-early-internet-patents-idUSKBN1K62VA
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josh_fyi
You know a company is in its last legs when it turns to patent-trolling.

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Ensorceled
IBM has been a "patent troll" for a long, long time. Heck, the term "ninja
lawyer" was invented for their patent teams.

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ProAm
Most job postings I see are for a "Rockstar lawyer"

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paulsutter
IBM had a patent for images displayed on pages, which they accused every
internet company of violating around 1999. They called it the “Technology
Licensing Program”

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calt
This isn't an isolated incident or new news. It's standard IBM at this point,
and the world deserves to know.

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code4tee
Two failing companies fighting in court. In the end, only the lawyers win.

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Retric
IBM is hardly failing. They know how to litigate and have gotten far more
money from litigation than it's cost them.

If nothing else cases like this scare other people into paying licencing fees.
So, fighting wounded companies like Groupon can be very useful.

~~~
prklmn
What’s your definition of failing?

[https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/IBM#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWsi...](https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/IBM#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%3D)

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freehunter
My definition of "failing" certainly doesn't include companies that are still
profitable, employ hundreds of thousands of people worldwide, have hardware in
every Fortune 500 company's datacenter, and is the market leader in some high-
growth fields.

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Analemma_
Which high-growth fields is IBM a market leader in? In both AI and cloud
computing, they are considered an also-ran.

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freehunter
I work in information security and IBM is the undisputed leader. I’d also
hesitate to call them an also-ran in AI, even if they’re not the undisputed
leader.

I feel like people on here discount IBM because they don’t have anything to
offer consumers or startups, but the corporate world is far bigger and has far
deeper pockets.

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dmix
> Desmarais told jurors IBM is a prolific innovator

And when this is no longer the case you let the lawyers do the innovating...

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thefounder
How could they patent SSO?

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mikekchar
Or... How could they be trying to enforce a patent from the late 80's (if the
article is correct)? Quite a lot of things don't add up here. I'd love to see
some actual information here. Bloomberg's article has _slightly_ more content:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-16/ibm-
seeks...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-16/ibm-
seeks-167-million-from-groupon-in-e-commerce-patent-suit) I'd really like to
see what patents they are talking about, though...

Found the actual suit: [https://www.b2ipreport.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/12/Intern...](https://www.b2ipreport.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/12/International-Business-Machines-Corp.-v.-Groupon-
Inc.pdf)

Edit again: That's a memorandum opinion, not the suit :-) But at least it
lists the patents...

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mikekchar
I won't bother to edit again. The SSO patent is here:
[http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,631,346.PN.&OS=PN/7,631,346&RS=PN/7,631,346)

Filed in 2005 (on April Fool's day no less!) and published in 2006. It looks
like the strongest of the 4 patents. The other ones look pretty weak to me.
The first 2 (from 1989!!!) seem to be discussing displaying cached data on a
monitor... I couldn't actually get much sense from it. The third one seems to
be describing a cookie... But it's pretty darn general.

Not an expert in patents by any stretch of the imagination, though...

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brightball
I remember sitting in on a meeting where an “enterprise” consultant was trying
to sell the telecom I worked for at the time on a single sign on system that
worked by wrapping intranet sites in a frame with a shared cookie.

He insisted on calling the cookie a secure token so it would seem different.

Asking price? $100k

Wouldn’t shock me if it was related.

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yayana
Hmm, aside from the triviality, it sounds like they may also have patented
pre-existing art in 2006 then..

I-Planet portal server can be traced back through Webtop to Pony Express.. It
was one of several competitors in the late 1990s, and I think they all
provided this style of SSO.

