
Outlawry, Supervillians, and Modern Law (2010) - Mz
http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2010/12/09/outlawry-supervillians-and-modern-law/
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adrianratnapala
_Second, declaring someone to be an outlaw would make it illegal to transact
basically any business with them. ... In this sense, outlawry could be
considered an absolute economic embargo targeted at a person or persons rather
than a state or government._

Governments, and even political pressure groups, are re-inventing this aspect
of outlawry when they freeze bank accounts and use more informal kinds of
pressure to make 3rd parties punish people.

Partly they do this for the same reason as medieval courts: it's a work-around
for the fact that people are hard to reach because they live overseas. But
also note, these new methods can be used _without_ a court order. Which raises
the suspicion that the real limitations being worked around are tedious
matters like the presumption of innocence and due process of law.

~~~
sandworm101
>> ...tedious matters like the presumption of innocence and due process of
law.

As the OP states, outlawry was generally used where people refused to submit
to a court. They have chosen not to exercise their due process rights and we
therefore presume them guilty (the other option being to presume them innocent
and therefore encourage everyone to abscond). In the modern context, economic
sanctions on individuals or organizations are used where the person is outside
the court's jurisdiction but their assets are not.

~~~
adrianratnapala
AFAIK, you don't have to be outside a courts to have your accounts frozen.

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joe_the_user
Hmm,

Ianal but it seems like the controversial opinions of John Yoo [1] written[2]
in justification of torture in support of the War on Terror seems like they
are referencing the concept of Outlawry[3].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo)
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_Memos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_Memos)
[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis)

~~~
QAPereo
The strongest argument against torture is efficacy; torture is a shoddy tool
with devastating personal and organizational consequences. You don’t even need
to examine the moral or legal framework, it just doesn’t work. Arguing for
torture in extreme cases is like arguing for withcraft or prayer in the same
circumstances, plus the inhumanity of it.

~~~
trhway
>The strongest argument against torture is efficacy;

not even close. Efficacy is a very weak argument at best. A torture efficient
enough for a given situation easily breaks that argument in that situation.

Discussing torture efficiency is basically a torturers' shop talk. That was a
masterpiece act of political spin back then decade ago when the societal moral
outrage toward torture was basically defused by converting it into a
discussion on whether torture is efficient and whether the specific applied
torture methods fit legal torture definition. And it basically continues that
way since then (with your comment being pretty typical of that). Instead of
asserting the morally right choice of non-acceptance of torture, the society
has basically walked into the trap of waiting for invention of efficient
torture methods.

~~~
QAPereo
_Discussing torture efficiency is basically a torturers ' shop talk._

In the same way that discussing the total lack of efficacy of magic makes you
a sorcerer, sure.

~~~
trhway
There is no "same way" here. Sorcerers don't exist. Torturers do.

~~~
QAPereo
Sorcerers do exist, it's just that their methodology is based on faulty
premises, and what they do doesn't work because magic isn't real.

Just like torturers, who do all kinds of things according to supposed
art/science, but in reality it's just bullshit for show.

Edit: If you're claiming that it works, I'll still keep asking, "Prove it."

Cite those many, "Many times in history..."

~~~
trhway
> torturers, who do all kinds of things according to supposed art/science, but
> in reality it's just bullshit for show.

sounds like you flat out dismiss all the human history with myriad of cases
where torture (or even just a plausible threat of torture) did work. It may
have worked not up to your taste of torture efficiency ... well ... that would
be a torturers' shop talk and i'm not interested in it.

~~~
mjcohen
Yep. Those witches convincingly confessed when tortured.

