
The Quest to Make a Super Tomato - Vigier
http://luckypeach.com/quest-make-super-tomato/
======
andai
Top HN comment from similar article (4 months ago):

"pro tip: Use canned tomatoes instead of fresh whenever out of season; canners
use varieties that have not been ruined for shipping, and seal at the peak of
freshness."

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13520563](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13520563)

Dr. Klee's tomato shenanigans have appeared on HN a couple times:

4 years ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4182279](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4182279)

also 4 years ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5254216](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5254216)

~~~
bobf
The same idea applies for other fruits and vegetables, like corn, peas, and
especially peaches and pears. The trick is finding a good canned variety. Most
mass produced versions from the familiar large names (Dole, Del Monte, etc. in
the US) are not great. However, for example there is a smaller grocery chain
near me which brands their own delicious version of canned peaches from a
regional producer annually at the peak of ripeness.

~~~
mrob
Corn kernels and peas both freeze very well. The large surface area to volume
ratio means they can freeze very quickly, which keeps the ice crystals small,
so there's minimal damage to texture. They also taste closer to fresh
vegetables than the canned ones do, and they're usually cheaper.

------
yann63
I grow my own tomatoes since several years, they taste great. I got seeds from
friends, kept it from good tasting tomatoes, etc. Some were not good enough, I
stopped growing them. I now have a selection of less than 10 varieties, which
are just fabulous:

    
    
      * Small size ones: cerise rouge (red cherry), poire jaune (yellow pear), prune noire (black plum).
    
      * Medium size: Rose de Berne, Noire de Crimée
    
      * Big size: Coeur de Boeuf (beef heart).
    

I can send seeds in exchange of other seeds (other plants) or PP cost.

Here's how I harvest and store them: (article in French, but with many
photos):

[https://yanncochard.com/277-recolte-facile-et-pratique-
des-g...](https://yanncochard.com/277-recolte-facile-et-pratique-des-graines-
de-tomates-astuce/)

~~~
Jedd
This is great to hear -- tomato seeds are easy to collect and store, and are a
good intro to encourage friends to start doing the same.

I note you mention prune noire -- I don't think we have that here in Australia
(though we're quite fortunate in the huge range of tomato varieties we do
have, as a lot of immigrants brought their seeds across with them in the early
part of last century, before we cracked down on flora importing). If you
haven't tried growing them I'd recommend whatever other black ones you can
find -- here we have Black Krim, Black Russian, Purple Russian, and a smaller
cherry-style variety of one of those. All superb flavour, texture, and eye-
appeal.

------
dghughes
It's amazing the difference of a vine ripened tomato from backyard garden
versus a hothouse grown fast and shipped thousands of kilometers. The tomatoes
from my garden in the summer are like dense red balls almost no seeds it's
like a berry which I think a tomato technically is. Plus the taste is powerful
tomato flavour not a bland tasteless hothouse fast food tomato.

Some rosemary focaccia toasted, a little olive oil, salt, pepper and that nice
dense garden tomato is a perfect summer sandwich.

And I have to say I have nothing against genetically modified food as long as
it has been studied.

Apparently we here in Canada grow many of those crappy tomatoes
[http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/16/473526920/how...](http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/16/473526920/how-
canada-became-a-greenhouse-superpower)

~~~
bps4484
I completely agree. I grew tomatoes for the first time last year and couldn't
believe the difference in taste. The cherry tomatoes had a sweetness I had
never tasted in a cherry tomatoe before. It was almost like they were cross-
bred with grapes. The heirlooms were so dense that when you cut them almost no
water was on the plate. It was amazing the difference from anything I had
tasted in the supermarket.

An interesting side note for those in the Bay Area: these were grown in sf,
and in PAC heights which is on the foggier side. Tomatoes survived better than
a lot of other plants. I can only imagine how they would have grown down in
Silicon Valley with twice the sun and heat.

------
ouid
Buy small tomatoes. Cherry/grape tomatoes are universally tastier, as they are
kept on the vine until they are ripe, and don't crush themselves under their
own weight during shipping.

------
eps
In related news - I accidentally stumbled upon a tomato variety that
absolutely blew my taste buds. It's called Edioso in Italy and Tomkin in UK
and other places. Fruits are about the size of a golf ball, have ridges and
wrinkles like pumpkins (hence "tomkin" = tomato + pumpkin) and they have this
super tomato taste that is also intensely sweet.

They were so impressive that I looked into growing them... but it didn't go
that far as original seeds are impossible to get unless you are a farmer and
seeds from the tomatoes themselves produce fruits that taste differently.

[http://www.hortidaily.com/article/2888/Italy-Syngenta-
Edioso...](http://www.hortidaily.com/article/2888/Italy-Syngenta-Edioso-wins-
Best-New-Variety-Award) \- some photos

~~~
benbreen
"seeds from the tomatoes themselves produce fruits that taste differently."

That's interesting, do you happen to know why that is? My wife and I just
started a little garden, partially based on growing seeds from peppers and
squash that we've bought at farmer's markets, and now I'm curious to see if
anything ends up tasting substantially different.

~~~
ryandamm
Lots of fruit aren't true-breeding; the characteristics of the parent plant
determine the quality of the fruit, but the seeds are genetically distinct.
This is a major issue in apples, which typically have to be propagated by
cloning and grafting to maintain fruit quality across generations.

~~~
markdown
Same with avocado pears, which is why you see the same tiny little Haas
avocados in supermarkets all over the world.

------
fny
This is insanity. Why genetically engineer a new tomato when unbelievably
delicious varieties abound abroad?

I'm also convinced this has more to do with economics than taste preference.
Somehow big agro managed to make the US forget what a tomato is supposed to
taste like and killed the demand for anything beyond a gas-ripened and red
water ball. If people really gave a damn about a good tomato, I'd bet we'd see
more imported varieties in grocery stores.

~~~
jjcm
Those varieties, while I agree are delicious, aren't very hardy. I love a good
heirloom tomato, but god help you if you let it bump into anything. They
bruise far too easily for mass production. Right now we have tomatoes that are
delicious, and tomatoes that are hardy. The goal here seems to be to find one
that's both, which I'm totally for.

------
ryandamm
On a side note, I'm sad that Lucky Peach is folding. I think this might be the
last issue.

Honestly, only found it because I was searching for Harold McGee articles
(he's got a few there), but I felt it was a good mix of food science and good
writing. Then again, I rarely remembered to go read it unless a link sent me
there, which I guess is the problem with magazine-style journalism / writing
these days. Sigh.

------
TheRealPomax
It amazes me how North American posts always lament that there are "no good
tomatoes" when Europe is full of them. So... just get those? What's with the
weird tunnel vision when it comes to high quality produce here? Sure, you'll
have to arrange a one time import clearance for high quality seeds, then
you're set for life if you're serious about a tasty home grown tomato.

~~~
sametmax
Actually most tomatoes in Europe suck as well. You'd be very lucky to find any
in a supermarket, except in the summer if you live in the proper location.

The trick is that what most people think is a great tomato is not, they never
tasted one. They think they have good ones when they eat one that's ok. A
tomato is not supposed to be "ok". It's suppose to be "omg I want to make my
whole lunch out of only those".

It seems surprising, but then again many children have never seen a cow IRL or
picked up a strawberry from the ground themself.

When I want great tomatoes, I have some options:

\- go to my local market. This requires to know your stuff, as most tomatoes
are still garbage, despite the fact I leave on the Italian border. And most
people around me have no idea what a good vegetable should look like. This
knowledge completely disappeared, even among foodies.

\- buy from a local farmers cooperative or directly from small producers. This
is the best solution as it's almost always good. But as a freelancer, I have
the time for this. Most people don't.

\- buy from an organic shop. Pretty much a hit or miss, which sucks since they
are very expensive, but still you have more chance to get something that in
the supermarket.

\- grow them. My GF does that, thanks god.

I'm just amazed of what people consider good product these days. The food is
so messed up people settle for anything that taste ok. This is a terrible
status quo. Vegetables and fruits are supposed to taste awesome. They are the
best thing ever. A good tomato doesn't even need salt or oil, you can eat it
like an apple.

The fact so many kids hate healthy food is not a problem with the kids. It's a
problem with the food. What we give them taste bad. I don't blame them for
eating the ben and jerry ice cream. At least it's guarantied to taste good.

------
quickben
Or they can simply leave them a bit more in the sun. You know, to do what
evolution tuned them to do across eons.

Today:

Profits >> nutrients.

~~~
surement
>> Or they can simply leave them a bit more in the sun.

This is what the whole article is about:

 _[intro]

The life of a tomato is halted tragically early. They’re wrenched from the
vine in their adolescence and fledged from their natal farms when they’re
still green and hard as stones. Snipped from their vines, the fruit is never
allowed to ripen in the field and develop the sugars and flavor chemicals that
make them taste like something other than a verdant rock. Unfortunately, for
large-scale commercial farming this is the only way. Imagine shipping squishy,
perfectly ripe tomatoes across the county. They’d arrive sauced.

[...]

If farmers could somehow allow a tomato fruit to ripen on the vine and develop
flavor without going soft, everyone would be happy. Farmers get high yield,
consumers get a tasty product, and tomatoes everywhere could keep a shred of
their integrity.

[rest of the article]_

------
antirez
In case you happen to visit Sicily, Italy, during summertime, and you are in
love with Tomatoes, make a small trip to Pachino to taste among the best
tomatoes in the world (and while there, go to Portopalo di Capopassero to
experience the wonderful sea there).

------
theprop
Most of the fruits & vegetables we eat today have been significantly modified
from their origins...often to the detriment of our health e.g. most fruits
have been bred to be sweet and often nutrient-wise less rich...some such as
corn are so different from their known antecedents that no scientist has any
idea how ancient Americans achieved them through breeding!!

------
tempodox
If this isn't handled carefully, it might devolve into the attack of the
killer tomatoes:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_of_the_Killer_Tomatoes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_of_the_Killer_Tomatoes)

------
senorjazz
An interesting read about the original wild tomato

[http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/why-wild-tiny-pimp-
toma...](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/why-wild-tiny-pimp-tomato-so-
important-180955911/?no-ist)

------
Safety1stClyde
Sorry to hear that the USA has so many problems with tomatoes.

Similar to the way that they removed all traces of cocoa from so-called
"chocolate" like Hershey's bars and replaced it with sugar and brown
colouring.

~~~
celias
[http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?story...](http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=383830776)

------
NinoScript
About that hypothetical "Xtra Tomato", it would be great for making tomato
sauce or soup.

