
Bread, How Did They Make It? Addendum: Rice - Kednicma
https://acoup.blog/2020/09/04/collections-bread-how-did-they-make-it-addendum-rice/
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teucris
My favorite insight:

> “[...] tenancy conditions tended to be more favorable in rice-farming areas
> than in wheat-farming ones, with a lower portion of the total harvest going
> to the landlord. Thus the irony that precisely because labor was so
> abundant, rice farming tended towards labor-intensive methods and solutions,
> which in turn improved returns to labor (compared to returns to capital),
> putting the small farmers, despite their abundance, in a marginally better
> bargaining position.”

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
> But it also goes to the difficulty many Chinese states experienced in
> maintaining large and effective cavalry arms without becoming reliant on
> Steppe peoples for horses. Unlike Europe or the Near East, where there are
> spots of good horse country here and there, often less suited to intensive
> wheat cultivation, most horse-pasturage in the rice-farming zone could have
> – and was – turned over to far more productive rice cultivation.

The bigger reason why China did not produce horses for cavalry was they
couldn't. Soil in China is deficient in selenium, which is required by horses
to produce strong muscles.

From

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road#Initiation_in_China_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road#Initiation_in_China_\(130_BCE\))

"The soil in China lacked Selenium, a deficiency which contributed to muscular
weakness and reduced growth in horses.[40] Consequently, horses in China were
too frail to support the weight of a Chinese soldier.[41]"

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jbay808
China is an enormous country. Surely this wasn't universally true?

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yorwba
The reference cited on Wikipedia is available on Google Books and has a map of
selenium in China on page 51
[https://books.google.de/books?id=IaQeC5fxYlQC&q=Selenium+eco...](https://books.google.de/books?id=IaQeC5fxYlQC&q=Selenium+ecological+landscape+map+of+China#v=snippet&q=Selenium%20ecological%20landscape%20map%20of%20China&f=false)

The area with low selenium content is quite large and encompasses much of
central China, where Chang'an, the capital of the Han dynasty at the time of
the War of the Heavenly Horses (fought over horses) was located. (The modern
city of Xi'an in the same place is marked on the selenium map.)

So the theory that selenium deficiency led to difficulty maintaining cavalry
without importing horses from elsewhere seems plausible.

~~~
hinkley
Where Egypt allowed seasonal flooding to deposit silt into the Delta
passively, my understanding is that China had a more active process for silt
harvesting[1]. But in either case, silt only travels so far from the river,
even less if carried in a bucket. And although the head waters might be in a
mineral rich area, your tributary might not.

I don't remember enough of geography in China to overlay the rivers onto that
selenium map, but I'm guessing the horses didn't get fed from the best fields
at any rate.

[1] Farmers of Forty Centuries, F. H. King, out of copyright

~~~
yorwba
> I don't remember enough of geography in China to overlay the rivers onto
> that selenium map

The map includes two black lines corresponding to the Yangtze (ending near
Shanghai) and the Yellow River (ending north of Jinan). Of course the rivers
changed their course by a lot over the centuries, but I don't think that makes
much of a difference in terms of selenium transport.

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natcombs
A little known fact is that Germany resorted to using sawdust in bread when
they had flour shortages during the world wars

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kommissbrot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kommissbrot)

Are ther any other strange flour replacements that people have heard of?

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Aromasin
In Scandinavia they reguarly added inner bark to flour during famine. In
Russia, nettle and orache were used. There a good article which goes through
what many cultures eat during famine below [1]. Some of it is pretty horrific:

> “…I have no idea how I managed to survive and stay alive. In 1933 we tried
> to survive the best we could. We collected grass, goose-foot, burdocks,
> rotten potatoes and made pancakes, soups from putrid beans or nettles.

> Collected clay from the trees and ate it, ate sparrows, pigeons, cats, dead
> and live dogs."

It goes further into mentions of infanticide canabilism which I won't quote
directly here but is worth reading.

Birch inner bark flour seems to be "common" as far as obscure flour goes.
Apparently it wasn't even a famine food as such, and just a normal part of
their diet. [2]

[1] [https://www.askaprepper.com/ingenious-foods-people-made-
fami...](https://www.askaprepper.com/ingenious-foods-people-made-famines/)

[2] [https://practicalselfreliance.com/birch-bark-
flour/](https://practicalselfreliance.com/birch-bark-flour/)

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GordonS
How the hell do you eat a live dog?

~~~
joseluis
I believe what that means is they found the dog alive, killed it themselves,
cooked it (I hope) and ate it. In contrast with finding it already dead, like
a road kill, which they eat also...

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selimthegrim
Doesn’t brown rice inhibit iron uptake?

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gruez
Source? A casual search suggests the opposite:

[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19919516/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19919516/)

~~~
klipt
Whole grains do have anti nutrients, e.g. phytic acid, which can inhibit
uptake of some nutrients, but whether that's a problem or not depends heavily
on the rest of your diet.

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xapata
On a tangent, the author has an article in the Atlantic about the increasingly
strained economics of universities. Combine that with the novelty of Patreon's
fundraising and it's worth pointing out the author's Patreon page. He has a
very reasonable "buy me a coffee" subscription.

It's no one's fault that a chunk of society goes down the humanities PhD
rabbit hole only to discover the adjunct professor job market is bonkers (some
of the world's smartest [or some semblance of it] people competing intensely
for almost no money). But, I think blogs and subscriptions like his are a
potential way to remedy the situation.

[https://www.patreon.com/user?u=20122096](https://www.patreon.com/user?u=20122096)

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
Yeah, strongly seconded. This kind of blog is exactly what's great about
having academic historians around.

~~~
CydeWeys
I've been reading him for a long time now, and I just wish he'd do a podcast
or a video essay YouTube channel or something (or partner with someone skilled
in these areas to make it happen). He's much more knowledgeable than the
existing people doing this in these areas, yet he has a tiny fraction of the
audience solely because of his choice of blogging medium. His actual content
is genuinely interesting and obviously well-researched and I'd put him up
favorably against any of the others.

~~~
ksdale
Ironically, I follow Bret's work over other, more famous people, because I
prefer reading over listening or watching.

~~~
boyband6666
Same. I can read quickly, and when suits me. Video I have to be sat at a
computer paying attention which is time I can use for other things, and go at
their speed.

~~~
user5994461
The quick must be ironic. His articles are insanely long, could be an hour
read sometimes for a slow reader. Each post is a booklet long if it were put
on paper.

Not a criticism. I like long text too. That would be extremely boring in a 30
minutes video though.

~~~
xapata
I think it's long because writing a short letter is harder, as the joke goes.

~~~
boyband6666
But a video covering that would be 30 minutes. I can read it in a lot less.
Having been through academia, you do after all learn to read quickly :-)

