
Ask HN: Do you have a do-nothing job? - da02
If you have a do-nothing job, what are the positives and negatives of it? Any advice on getting a do-nothing job like yours?
======
muzani
Be a manager.

Update Jira every day. Be in all the meetings. Know what everyone else is
doing. Know the status of what you're responsible over.

At higher ranks, you manage managers. Your whole job is automated, you just
have to sign approvals.

When there are enough managers, your job is just to stay up-to-date and to
keep the other managers up to date. You argue for weeks on how to shorten the
deadline by a week.

In rare cases, you will be asked to do a job - increase resources for your
team or extend a deadline. The hard way would be to communicate well. Explain
why you need extra resources, back it up with evidence that your team is
working hard.

The easy way would be to blame it on another team. The front end team is slow
because the API team has bugs. The back end team can't start without approval
from the UI director, who is on maternity leave. The UI team just got a change
request from the CEO, causing a chain reaction of delays. Sales team is slowed
down because the product isn't ready. HR can't get visas to bring in this
consultant, because we were all running on agile and didn't realize we needed
him next week, not next month.

An advanced trick would be to tag team the blame. You blame this manager, that
manager blames you. Some roles fit into this naturally - hardware/software,
dev/QA, front end/back end. You can extend a deadline unnecessarily long.

You'll have some weird effects going on, like 2 weeks dev time and 4 months
pre-development preparation. But everyone above you is management and
understands how difficult the job is.

~~~
horatiocain
Jesus this is my life :\

I used to write the best code :). Now it's meetings, checkin, answer
questions, talk to QA and directors, maybe a PR if someone else didn't get it.

It sucks but I guess my job is to do all that dumb stuff so that my team can
be 100% productive. They're awesome and don't deserve to have to go to
meetings.

It seems to be working though, the team fucking cranks like never before. I do
wish I could grab more than like one bug a week.

~~~
muzani
Yeah, the manager's job is to do 'nothing'. If there's nobody assigned to
doing 'nothing', then it's the team that spends all their time doing
'nothing'.

------
throw_this_one
I have a do-nothing job as a junior level dev at a bank. I got put on a poorly
managed team that is supporting an outdated and undocumented application that
is super complex. So the amount of value I can add without a little bit of
hand holding (never get it) is very low. So I just do the minimum to get by
and seem like I'm on the team.

I hate it. Best way out? Maybe I just need to apply to a new job and take a
jump. I hate the banking domain, everything seems pointless to me and adds
zero value to society. Feel stuck.

The good thing is I work 9-5 (if that) and can spend my time doing other
things. But of course it is difficult to pull yourself up and make something
of that free time. I mostly just work out, study human languages, go to
concerts.

~~~
todayThrowaway
I have a do-nothing job as a junior dev in a different area, but what you
describe is my day-to-day.

Maintaining outdated, undocumented applications on obsolete and unsupported
hardware and software platforms. Everyone here knows how to do a good enough
patch job to keep things moving smoothly.

I openly complain a lot about the lack of any dev process - literally people
do whatever they want, including copying the entire source tree to make
changes - and absence of any tools. The usual response to change is "go for it
and show us it will work", but I'm not familiar enough with the software to go
off on a rewrite on my own. And honestly if I had that level of skill I'd be a
consultant charge 3x what I get paid.

I have sought a different job in the past and ended up here. Part of me feels
like I wouldn't cut it at a "real" dev job and I'm not secure enough to risk a
cushy job for the adventure. But it does drive me crazy.

p.s. the guy next to me is sleeping in his chair - this is not unusual.

~~~
throw_this_one
Haha wow very similar. There's a guy here in a neighboring team that I used to
work under that literally just falls asleep at his desk and snores. Comes in
at 9:20, leaves at 3 some days.

Which general domain or area are you working in? Is this your first job?

I also have some imposter syndrome about being a "real" dev. I think that's
because there's so many ways to go from here. Whereas, for example, if you
were a doctor you would basically lock in your area of practice and then put
your head down and get it done. For us, you could: build your own product,
climb corporate ladder at BigCorp, startup world, freelance, freelance while
traveling, consult, be a product manager instead, etc.

The cushy part is tough to give up, but the free hours don't really make up
for the existential dilemma that eats at my soul every day... I know right,
first world problems.

~~~
todayThrowaway
Actually, this is not the first job I've had where people pass out regularly.
I sympathize with my bosses a little bit because big corps make it hard to get
rid of people - I assume to avoid liability issues. But I do feel that it is
the bosses job to keep them out of the way.

I've been on some pretty bad teams and management just tells the lead to task
them and deal with it. I once was in a meeting with our manager and the whole
team minus the sleeper in which he told all of us (the lead and all junior
devs) that it is our responsibility to the team to motivate mr. sleepy. Aside
from dead weight, he was also rude and not personable. But I would be too if I
had to sleep through the day to get a paycheck.

It's not so much imposter syndrome as it is my unwillingless to let go of good
money for a sane workplace. I'm fairly confident I could get a job in a
reasonable work environment with legit devs, but i would have to cut my salary
by 1/3 or 1/4\. And getting paid less to do work - even if it makes me happy
to feel productive doesn't seem like a wise choice, on paper at least.

------
_ah
No one willingly creates a do-nothing job, and people are not hired to be
useless. In the rare cases where this DOES happen, there's usually an ulterior
motive such as vanity.

What does happen with great regularity is that do-nothing jobs evolve: a
capable person is hired to do a productive thing, the need for the thing is
obviated, but no one fires the person. This is an emergent condition based on
limited information: in a large organization it's impossible to know what
everyone is doing, and everyone was hired to do something useful at some
point, so the default strategy is to assume usefulness. In the case where a
person's work is no longer useful, there is no reason for the employee to
acknowledge this fact, and so the do-nothing job often continues (paired with
powerful self-delusion).

So how do you get one of these jobs? You don't. They just kind of grow up
around you. However, the correct response in this situation is to evolve your
role or quit. If you don't and "coast", then you may find yourself
unemployable later when the job is (belatedly) eliminated.

------
bsvalley
There's only one positive thing for people who don't want to stay in a 9-5 job
for life - being able to free up your brain on a daily basis in order to work
on your personal project. It's a huge plus if you have a lot of bills to pay
(mortgage, kids, etc.), while trying to launch your own business and to get
rid of your 9-5 life.

I personally don't know what drives people to work for other people... Well,
otherwise no one would work for your own business I guess :)

~~~
muzani
> "I personally don't know what drives people to work for other people."

I've done a few businesses before. It's extremely stressful when it goes bad.
My bosses now haven't had a vacation in years. It's easier to fire the boss
and get a better one than for the boss to fire a star developer.

When it goes well, you get more money than the people who work for you.
Sometimes. With tech, the larger cut often ends up for the people who do the
work.

So all things given, if you're an engineer, it's probably better to work for
other people. The only reason I see to own your own business is if you don't
trust someone else to be in charge.

~~~
tedmiston
Of course with the caveat that in tech, we as engineers can work for other
people and still own the business in the form of equity, at least a portion of
it.

------
ibash
Why do you want a do-nothing job? That sounds horrible.

~~~
da02
It's more for curiosity. People talk about do-nothing jobs, but I haven't
heard much about the road(s) that led to them.

