
Ask HN: Why does everyone use a MacBook Pro despite saying they suck? - farza
About to buy a new machine for a dev position and was just curious about the thought process of using a MBP. Any good alternatives?
======
dbatten
There are 8 billion people on this planet. The people that think MacBook Pros
suck are likely very often not the same people that use them. And, when they
do overlap, it's likely due to technology lock-in (they use Final Cut or
whatever) or thinking the other options suck even worse.

I have to second the other person recommending a Lenovo X1 Carbon. I had one
for awhile and it was just about the perfect laptop. Surface Pro looks nice
too.

------
sontek
I've been using macbooks full time for 3 years now and I _hate_ them. They are
bad hardware for a high price tag.

As a developer they are the perfect middle ground. OSX runs everything I
usually run in Linux and I have all the paid for software I'd run on windows
(Photoshop, Lightroom, etc).

Prior to switching to mac I just dual booted windows and linux depending on
what I needed. Then sketch came out and it was only OSX and I had to make the
decision on having a third setup.

Then I realized everything I was doing in my 2 OSes I could do in a single one
even though I hated the hardware.

~~~
tzakrajs
Windows Insider Preview with Ubuntu for Windows is what you want now if you
really don't care for macOS or Apple hardware.

~~~
cuckcuckspruce
Or the other way around - Windows under kvm on Linux.

~~~
sontek
You ever tried to do photo manipulation, graphic design, or video editing in a
virtualized OS? It is miserable. There is a reason I said I was dual booting
and not running virtualization :)

~~~
cuckcuckspruce
I use GPU passthrough and run games in Windows under KVM with equal or
slightly less (~3-5%) frames. Photo manipulation and graphic design work fine
in Photoshop in my setup. Not so sure about video editing.

------
danieljohnson
With OSX, I get to be lazy when it comes to the OS. No wrangling, configuring
like I see friends having to do. The environment is mindless and works. And
they're pretty. Great screens and resolution. And everyone else had one when I
started developing. And I was kind of excited to put a sticker on top of the
apple.

Switching to linux is in the same category as Vim for me. Something I should
do someday.

~~~
gtt
YMMV, but I configured i3, vim and some other stuff years ago and just copy
configs from previous laptop to the next one. New laptop usually works just of
the box and it is already configured the way I'm used to.

------
news_to_me
I think the people who don't like it are the loudest. It certainly has some
drawbacks (like the keyboard, lack of ports), and for some that's a deal-
breaker.

Personally, I love my MBP I got late last year — 13", no touchbar. I use the
larger, touchbar version for work, and it doesn't really suit me.

The only things that really bother me are the keyboard and sometimes the lack
of ports, but honestly the keyboard is still pretty good, and I don't find
myself plugging things into my laptop that often.

------
OneFishTaco
Because I got tired of the blue screens of death, and despite the MBP being
way over priced it does one thing very well... it works 99% of the time. Plus
it looks cool, if you care about that sort of thing.

~~~
Scramblejams
The downvotes for you are puzzling. At work I compile a large project in
VS2017 multiple times per day, and my machine will intermittently bluescreen
during the compile. Happens to a number of my coworkers as well. W10 has come
a long, long way since the unstable foundations of its forebears, but my
personal experience with it still includes more crashes than I can write off
as flaky hardware/drivers or mere chance.

~~~
actsasbuffoon
Agreed, Windows 10 is still a mess. I have constant issues with stability.

My latest fun issue is that my gaming desktop won't install OS updates. It
knows there are updates available, but when I tell it to install, the progress
bar never progresses. I've tried restarting multiple times, but it makes no
difference. I thought maybe I just needed to let it run for a while. It's been
running for 3 days now, and the progress bar still hasn't moved.

I guess I'm probably going to have to either reformat the machine, or decide
that I don't want OS updates any longer.

~~~
Scramblejams
Yep. I ranted about this in another thread recently so I won't rehash (much),
but part of what I dislike about Windows is that its excessive complexity
creates a gulf between the quick fix and "welp, time to reformat." And thanks
to the need for backward compatibility, I doubt it will ever get better.

------
dv_dt
1) people end up with the MBP because they've been very good for a number of
years (maybe latest keyboard excepted, I'm still running on older gens
personally).

2) Though there are now more alternatives of comparable quality, it's a lot of
work (and some risk) to dig up that model in the product line of XX supplier.
And even if you find a good model, it often gets watered down with similarly
named low-quality options so you have to get very specific about model, and
you have to do that every time you have to re-buy outside of Apple.

That said, if you're doing Linux/unix work, I've been eyeing up the purism
Librem laptops should I need a replacement.

~~~
rubicon33
Wow, thanks for sharing Librem... I had never heard of them but they are now
top of my list for a laptop replacement. Linked me friend, he'd never heard of
them either, and is now going to get one.

------
jacknews
The rest of the team uses them, and the company pays.

The new keyboard absolutely sucks.

But what's even worse, is that with kids around etc, it becomes almost
inevitable that there will be some kind of liquid spill etc during the 3-4
year ownership, and that costs ~$700 to replace half the machine, v $50 to
replace just the keyboard on most other machines.

I had to do it on the 2013 pro (about 1 year after a coffee spill), now I'm
looking at having to pay for (beg the boss to pay for) the awful 2016 pro
keyboard again (beer this time, and already a couple of keys are unreliable).

------
billconan
for me, it's because nothing matches MBPs trackpad. I never feel I need a
mouse using a MBP, but on both Windows and Linux notebooks, I really need a
mouse and sit down in front of a table to be productive.

~~~
amf12
I just recently started using Surface Book. The trackpad is as good as my old
MBP.

~~~
actsasbuffoon
Is it better on the Surface Book than a regular Surface with a touch cover?
Because I have the latter, and it is not even in the same ballpark. I just
plug a mouse in when I use my Surface.

~~~
amf12
Yeah, I agree with zeusk. If you are talking about this:
[https://goo.gl/hw22Hr](https://goo.gl/hw22Hr) , then Surface Book trackpad is
much, much better.

------
jriver
SO I am typing this on my Personal Surface pro, and I have a Macbook Pro
(2012) for work. I also have developed a distaste for Macs and am not afraid
to voice my view.

Simply Mac OS has become shitty in comparison. The Windows XP of the modern
era. It's got some cool tricks, but the OS is stale, and almost has to be.
Windows and Linux can be innovative because they have more too lose (Like Macs
in 2001).

Mac OS's deepest flaw (in my view) is simply terrible window management even
compared to earlier versions I have used. If you are a mac head I'm sure it
all makes perfect sense, but as someone who aims to switch comfortably between
OSs (to the point that I favor OS neutral apps as much as possible) the
radical difference in philosophy for Macs is simply Jarring.

But that personal issue aside, the system over relies on security through
obscurity. This means that because Mac OS is only used for at most 10% of
laptop/desktops, and not servers (Linux) or 90% of laptop/desktops (Windows)
they are an incredibly small target for hackers, and are thusly "Secure"
despite regularly ranking at the bottom of security reviews. You can see this
in the basic security flaws in every new OS release.

Lastly the biggest issue is exposure. The more people there are using
something, the more problems there will be. every new person is another chance
to find a flaw. Dell, HP, and every computer manufacturer has experienced
this.

Now all that said why did I pick a Macbook Pro, and why would I recommend
anyone buy one? Simply support, unix, and build quality. Macs get a lot of
developer support, meaning that you have access to really great tools. This is
the same reason to choose windows for the best MS Office support or what not.
My Co-Worker has a hackintosh just so he can run music editing software when
he is not gaming (which of course he runs windows for).

Unix is also a killer feature. You get the great native Posix shell (which LSS
on Windows, and just Linux also provides), which makes it easy to develop on
and for the Linux/unix systems I rely on at work.

The build Quality is also great. Windows PCs are finally rivaling Macs, but
Macs just are well made and hold up well to age.

~~~
lokedhs
But the problem with the Mac is that the OS has become actively worse in
recent years. They could have literally not updated it at all in the last
decade or so and the system would be better than it is today.

The same is true for the hardware. A Macbook of 5 years ago is a better
machine than the current ones (except for things like CPU speed etc, of
course).

Note that this is of course not limited to Apple. Windows 8 was also
quantifiably a worse operating system than Windows 7. GNOME has gone through
the same quality degradation on multiple occasions as well.

~~~
zeusk
> Windows 8 was also quantifiably a worse operating system than Windows 7

But not Windows 10 or arguably even 8.1 whereas the stability of macOS has
been downhill since 10.8

\- From my 2017 mbp running 10.12 because 10.13 is so much buggier and I can't
go down any further than .12

~~~
lokedhs
I specifically talked about the difference between Windows 7 and 8, because
that's one case where I don't think anyone could disagree.

I personally feel that 7 is still a better system than 10, but I acknowledge
that other people could make a valid argument for the opposite.

My 2011 Macbook Air is still on 10.8. Partially because it has a 64 GB SSD
with not enough free space to upgrade, but also because there is absolutely
nothing in newer versions that would make it better, and plenty of things that
makes it worse.

------
ghotli
Honestly the linux subsystem for windows 10 is good enough for me. I see less
and less of a need for an osx box for development if you're just looking for a
unix subsystem.

FWIW I use a Dell XPS 13 and a Surface Pro and both work perfectly well.
Install Ubuntu from the app store, get Mobaxterm and run gnome-terminal.
You're set at that point.

~~~
thrill
I find it "just" good enough, if I limit my development requirements. It won't
run the latest CockroachDB for example (bug filed). Running anything under
Docker that has significant internet I/O leads to having to restart Docker
several times a day - this seems to be due to excessive caching (or a memory
leak) in the necessary VPN technique Docker uses to interact with the Windows
networking. This bug seems to alternate between existence and non-existence -
maybe it's a dual development track issue at Docker. Running tmux has odd
interactions regarding copy/paste that I still find irritating, but I simply
live with. So, what I do is use it as a proper ssh terminal, do and keep my
work on other proper servers, and live with the tmux idiosyncrasies. That's
_just_ good enough for me, and lets me use a large-screen Yoga, which I like,
and keep Windows, which work occasionally requires, without messing with VMs.

------
scarface74
I have no desire to get a MacBook Pro. They are overpriced, you have to carry
around dongles for everything and I would rather have real function keys than
the touch bar. I actually like both my work and home Dell 2n1s better.

On the other hand, I'm slowly moving away from being a "windows developer".
I'm still using .Net but it's .Net Core. As I start seeing how great the
"Windows Tax" is as far as system resources and cost when it comes to running
hosted servers, Docker, serverless functions, etc. it makes no sense to stay
on Windows, but I really don't feel like mucking with Linux on my personal
computer. I've owned Macs in the past and having both commercial software, and
a real Unix operating system would be ideal and of course I could do iOS
development.

So the question is, do you need a laptop? For $100 more you can get a 27 inch
5K iMac with 32GB of RAM a 2TB fusion drive. You get a faster computer, twice
as much RAM. A better keyboard, a more performant GPU and USB 3 ports.

------
jinushaun
Who says they suck? They very much DO NOT suck. Every time I use a PC laptop,
I am reminded why I use Bootcamp or a VM for Windows on an MBP.

However, I need a new laptop and I really don't want the Touch Bar MBPs. :( I
don't know anyone that likes them.

~~~
CharlesW
> _I don 't know anyone that likes them._

Keep in mind that you're probably not hearing from folks who like them. I use
one all day at work and like it fine, even though I like the keyboard of my
2013 MBP better.

------
crsv
The Razer Blade is a surprisingly capable, beautiful alternative.

I will say that the primary driver is more being on MacOS, which is a nice
middle ground for ease of use for our developer team that's primarily working
in things like Ruby on Rails and React, and also really great for movie
editing for our marketing folks.

We're all still holding hope that the next MBP fixes the keyboard issues.
Personally I'm still jamming on a 2011 MBA that's probably the single most
reliable, functional piece of hardware I've ever owned. It's the definitive
workhorse. It's a shame the quality hasn't kept pace across the other lines
and new models.

------
ageitgey
I think a certain, very vocal group of people violently reacted to the 2016
re-design's keyboard and switch to USB-C. But I also think that most users are
still pretty happy with their Macs most of the time - they just don't post
blog posts about that.

I understand the complaints about keyboard failures due to dust getting under
keys, but my personal experience with a 2016 model has been fine. I had to
blow it out once with compressed air after 1.5 years and it worked again fine
after that. It took two minutes and wasn't a big deal to me.

I don't understand the violent hate of the switch to USB-C. I find it super
convenient that my phone (Samsung S8), laptop and Nintendo Switch all charge
from the same power cable. And getting a couple of thin USB-C end-cap
convertors on Amazon to plug in older USB devices cost me less than $10. It
just hasn't been a negative at all for me.

Beyond that, Macs in general are a great compromise for developers who want to
write code that runs primarily on Linux servers but who don't want to run
Linux as a laptop OS (which can be a pain in the ass on laptops due to
unpredictable battery drain, unreliable suspend/restore, no native support for
software like Photoshop/Lightroom, less polished UI, whatever your reasons).

Windows has gotten a lot better in that regard, but a lot of Unix-native stuff
still sucks to install and run on Windows. Docker on Windows is a dog,
installing various native extensions for Python is a real pain in Windows,
etc.

There's lots of little paper cuts using Windows in a Linux environment because
Windows is just so different than Linux. For example, you can write and test a
Docker file on a Windows machine that won't rebuild cleanly on a Linux server
because on Windows you don't have to chmod +x your Docker entrypoint script,
but on Linux the Docker image won't start after a rebuild because the
entrypoint script will get installed with your local file permissions (which
aren't set to +x by default). That's just one tiny example, but that's the
kind of thing that illustrates why people building code primarily for for
Linux servers might not prefer using Windows on their personal machine.

~~~
zeusk
I have a 2017 13" touch-bar at home and a 2016 15" touch-bar at work.

The work machine works fine and is mostly docked so I don't care about the
ports either.

My personal macbook however was a totally different story:

\- While usb-c only ports were annoying, it was much improved by the usb-c to
usb-a converter included with my Samsung S8 (oh, the irony).

\- The keyboard, however, was a totally different experience. I've had two
replacements - one where some keys started failing (as in they'd either get
stuck down or up randomly) and another one where the touchbar started acting
really weird (no wakeups, hangs etc..) which was just as bad because they
moved escape key to "touch" bar. Go figure.

------
dismal2
Because they don't suck?

I think people are mostly complaining about the direction the last update
took, such as the touchbar which seems more targeted at less experienced
computer users and lack of RAM options beyond 16gb, etc.

------
surds
I have been a Mac user for less than 5 years now, and have used 4 Macs ranging
from 2012 to 2017 models. I don't think they suck.

For most purposes, even dev ones, they are very nice. Stable, reliable,
performant. They might not be the top-of-the-line laptops but they are awesome
at getting things done - as long as you don't want to impose your own
requirements on it (OS, storage, RAM, etc.)

I do have to agree that they are damn expensive though. I cringe at the
thought of replacing my old one and am NOT doing that unless its imperative.
:|

------
Scooty
I like my MBP, but if I got a different job and was picking a laptop, I'd
first figure out what the rest of the team is using. At my current job, the
whole team I'm on (and most of the company) use Macs, so bringing new people
into projects is easy because pretty much everyone has the same setup.

If everyone here used Windows, I'd probably begrudgingly switch.

------
vinhboy
Because of Terminal. It means most software you would use on a web server will
install easily with the help of HomeBrew etc...

I've seen developers waste an entire week trying to get basic things like
docker to run on Windows...

I'm sure things have gotten better in Windows land, but now that I already
have my Macbook, the impetus for change is just not there...

~~~
collyw
I have read a fair bit about Python being a mess on Macs recently, and a few
years ago Java was apparently a mess. I don't use a mac so I wouldn't know,
but is it really just a case of installing things easily on a Mac?

~~~
mrguyorama
If it's available on Homebrew and up to date(!), then most of the time it's
two or three commands to install. However, when homebrew doesn't do the job
100%, then you are likely better off trying to build from source rather than
play around with how homebrew works to "fix" its install

------
pmiller2
I don't own a MBP, but I use one for work, so this is mostly geared toward a
work environment.

I was "that one jackass who uses Linux instead of OSX" at a previous company.
At my current job, I use a MBP like everyone else.

I don't think the MBP sucks; for me, an external keyboard and Bluetooth mouse
solve almost all the annoyances. I find that things work a little more
smoothly when I'm using the same operating environment as everyone else.
Getting help when things don't work is easier, too. I have confidence that
things like screen sharing will work and not cause me grief. If there's an app
that my company wants to use, I just download and run it without checking if
there's a Linux version.

The bottom line is that it's a lot of little conveniences that add up, with
little downside.

------
amthewiz
My 2012 MBP is still going strong and I see no need to replace it. That never
happend to me with Windows laptops that I used for a decade before that.

I love the trackpad of MBPs. The aesthetics and physical build are good. The
OS hardly ever gets in my way. The UI has been stable and usable and improving
over the last 6 years of use. Apple's hardware service has been great (had
video card issue a couple of years ago - $200 flat rate fix got me new
motherboard, new screen with top cover, new video card). It has all the ports
I need. Magsafe connector is genious. The display is crystal clear and high
res.

I have had a genuinely good experience with my 2012 MBP. Barring bad hardware
luck and missteps by Apple like the touch bar, people complaining about MBPs
are being nitpicky.

------
gshakir
In my opinion there is no alternative. In the new MacBook pro the keyboard
feels great. I have access to UNIX terminal and access MS office Apps. More
over Apple commitment (so far) to privacy keeps you safe.

------
quantumofmalice
Because, like monarchy, they are still the least worst option when considering
both the OS and hardware combined, for most people.

The issues with the latest macbooks are real and severe, but running windows
or linux, even on nice hardware like an X1, remains a sufficiently annoying
and disruptive change to stop people. We can all hope that eventually this
will change, but as of right now I don't see a forcing function.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Because, like monarchy, they are still the least worst option

Traditionally, that description is applied to _democracy_...

------
striking
I got mine in 2015 and I love it. I'll have to replace the touchpad cable
later today, but I'm pretty sure it'll survive.

This 2015 model comes with MagSafe, USB-A, and a physical Escape key: all
features you won't find on the newest model.

I won't be buying another Mac. But I do love this one.

Next laptop will probably be some Dell XPS, Lenovo X1, or Surface Pro. It'll
depend on what I'll need at work.

~~~
mstade
The only thing I miss from my 2015 MBP is the MagSafe charger. Hardware wise,
everything else now is better I think, even the touch bar which actually means
there’s some utility for me in that space of the keyboard – I never used the
Fn-keys and a software Esc key doesn’t bother me one bit.

Now the software though... so, many, bugs!

------
120bits
1\. Homebrew 2\. iTerm 3\. Cmd + R for recovery mode 4\. A multi touch
trackpad. Move quickly between workspaces. 5\. Fast! I have 500GB with 16GB
RAM. Yes its expensive for I get, but I had bad times relying on windows
laptop. 6\. Save and restore Application states after reboot! 7\. VIM! I love
vim. 8\. Blend of linux and Xwindows.

This things are top of my list. I use windows PC just for gaming. :)

------
FabHK
An additional reason: When they came out, the latest updates on the (other)
existing machines had been looooong ago.

I had been very happy with a succession of MacBook Airs, and when my machine
died end of 2016, I wanted to get a new laptop running macOS, and they were
basically all years old - except the shiny new MBP, which I got (despite
saying they suck, for the price at any rate).

------
wglb
The one I bought 6 years ago is finally beginning to fade, so I am replacing
it with a new one that is the 2015 model with the non-touch-dealie keyboard.

Most of my friends who rail against macbook pro are about the keyboard issues.
This model has the older style keyboard and none of the issues.

------
towndrunk
I have been looking at the Lenovo X1 Carbon or a Surface Pro to replace my
aging MacBook Air.

~~~
cmpolis
My main machine for the past few years has been Lenovo X1 Carbon from a few
gens ago - have had a great experience. Dual boots windows and Ubuntu without
issue, battery life is great, performance is great with 16G/SSD/i7, feels well
built and keyboard is as good as any that I've had on a Thinkpad. The only
thing I miss from the MBP is the trackpad.

------
vinay427
If you can get used a TrackPoint (the nub thing on ThinkPads) or similar on
another brand it's probably a better alternative to a MBP. I did as of a few
years ago and would never go back to the imprecise and slow navigation with a
trackpad.

------
thln666
I have thinkpads of various kinds for work and home and run linux mostly. MBPs
do suck.

------
gtt
Company where I work decided it is simpler to buy macbooks for everyone than
handle each request separately.

Would never buy it with my own money, but it kind of works although I still
could not get macvim to read my font settings from .vimrc

------
vaygr
Lenovo X1 Carbon user here. Never touched any Apple product in my entire life.

~~~
towndrunk
Do you have the touch screen? If so, thoughts?

~~~
vaygr
Yeah, I do. Just wanted to try it a couple of years ago. Honestly -- not worth
it (on Linux HiDPI is not there where I wanted it to be, plus with my love of
bitmap fonts, it can be hard), especially in a heavily shortcut-powered WM (I
use Fluxbox and bspwm occasionally). But that's just me.

My next workhorse will still be X1 nextgen, but with regular 1080p resolution
and matte screen. Much much better. Like my Zenbook at home -- which is ideal
for me, but less powerful for work-related tasks.

------
FabHK
Moreanecdata:spacekeydoesn'twork.IlovethenewMBP</sarcasm>

------
urmish
Why is there much more discussion about apple laptops than thinkpads? I feel
linux on thinkpad would the most efficient combination for people who call
themselves 'hackers'

~~~
Recurecur
Thinkpads are no longer the high quality machines they once were...

Apple should devote more effort to the MBP lineup (in particular a higher end
machine with up to 64 GB of ECC RAM like Dell and HP offer), but the MBPs hit
a sweet spot for development in many ways.

You can always run Linux in a VM if you really need to do something with
Linux...

------
dstof
Overpriced, and macOS is not hackable, no touch screen, not much apps as
windows.

ChromeOS with Linux apps support + Android for mobile / desktop (like samsung
dex dock) will kill them all !!!

------
kisna72
High price, but really good hardware. Battery life is amazing, the screen is
amazing. Its not 4k, but high enough DPI. Plus computers with 4k screen have
crappy battery life.

------
psychometry
I'd complain a lot less if there was a vendor selling an alternative
Linux/Unix solution with a comparable quality of hardware/software
integration.

------
S_A_P
I think it comes down to a few adages... You can please all of the people some
of the time, you can please some of the people all of the time...

and

trackpad size is like salt, you can have too much.

------
heavymark
Because for the people you describe, they love MBP's and no other option comes
close for what they prefer, but with love comes wanting it to be more perfect.

------
gaius
I am still using my 2008 MacBook Pro, upgraded with SSD. It’s on its third
replacement battery, but I only get 3-4 hours use, if even that.

My next laptop will be a Surface.

------
worg
You get unix that JustWorks© a GREAT touchpad, mostly good battery life, the
OS and HW quality has gotten worse, but they're still solid mahines

------
beagle3
It’s like what Churchill said about democracy: “it’s the worst system of
governance, with the exception of any other system that was ever used”

------
jtxiii-be
The plural of an anecdote is not data. People who don't have any problem with
the MBP don't complainte about it.

~~~
dingaling
> The plural of an anecdote is not data

Well of course it is. Data isn't some magically objective set of golden truth,
it's just a collection of recorded observations.

If the only observations are negative, it's still data. Data doesn't self-
testify as to its holisticity or accuracy.

I could compile daily records of my personal experiences commuting on the bus.
That's still data even without the driver's perspective.

------
triviatise
when the touchbar macs with only usb c ports came out I went to the used
market and bought the best used macbook pro I could find that still had hdmi,
thunderbolt and USB.

I love my macbook, but mainly I love having a *nix based operating system.
Windows is starting to get it and so in the next iteration of hardware I might
switch over.

~~~
scarface74
Apple still sells the 2015 MacBook Pro new.

------
querulous
because companies will only provide mbps

------
wayanon
I bought a 2015 MacBook Pro from the Apple Refurb store - very happy with it:
USB ports and good keyboard.

------
zeveb
I don't — I use a laptop from Zareason. It runs Debian, and I'm happy with it.

------
bsvalley
What's the alternative? Linux? Windows? Take the top 10 most valuable Tech
companies in the world. Their dev folks use Macs and probably MBP's. Do you
really think you need something better than that? Again, it does not exist...
doesn't stop us from making a lot of money shipping code.

------
amriksohata
Same reason I wear Nike's despite them being uncomfortable. Brand ego

------
kotoba
obviously their money is already spent, and exchanging mbp for a proper laptop
is not always worth it

and there are always people that just don't know better

and mbp ca. 2015 is pretty usable and not terribly expensive

------
proletariat99
Real hackers plug in an ergodox anyway, so keyboard is a non-issue

------
i0n1
the main problem for people complaining about the new macbooks pro is the
keyboard. just buy a silicone keyboard cover protection and it's working
great!

~~~
jasonshen
This is my biggest gripe with the new MBP's - and I never thought of this.
Thank you!

------
purplezooey
system76 laptops are really nice and you know the hardware works in Linux.
Google them. I've used one for five years and love it.

------
jstewartmobile
PC architecture is trash, and the overall consumer market for PC hardware is a
race-to-the bottom.

That being said, as PC hardware goes, MacBook Pro is at least tolerable.

------
treyreynolds
I will continue to jump through hoops in order to get the integrated
experience of macOS. There is a huge gap between developing on Windows and
Mac.

~~~
hungerstrike
Yes, there is a huge gap. Windows has way better development tools and the OS
is leaps ahead of the Mac OS.

~~~
amthewiz
That depends on your tools and platforms of choice. For most open source
stuff, Windows has less support than Linux and macOS because it usually
requires tweaks (build tools, libs, etc).

~~~
mrguyorama
I usually see this as a purposeful choice of open source teams and developers.
It's not like you CAN'T create an easy and thorough build process for Windows
machines. Even if you ignore turning it into a VS solution, batch files can do
the job, but nobody is willing to do the extra work because they personally
don't use Windows so it won't benefit them.

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chrisgoman
Buy the older ones (2014-ish) from ebay

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kotoba
obviously they don't have any money for a proper laptop after buying such an
expensive device

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PaulHoule
Alienware R15

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kalleboo
macOS

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pushparajxa
trackpad

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hungerstrike
The only reason I have one: You need it to build and test iOS apps. If you’re
working with mobile apps, you can’t afford to ignore iOS.

Other than that - can’t stand Apple, iOS or Macs.

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eip
Mediocre hardware and specs at an ultra premium price. What's not to like?

