
Survival of Scottish Gaelic in doubt - DanBC
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0702/1150912-survival-of-scottish-gaelic-in-serious-doubt/
======
Ologn
On the island of Ireland, there are only three places where people regularly
speak Gaelic in conversation, all of which are way at the west coast away from
Dublin - in Munster, in Connacht and in Ulster. My mother's parents happen to
be from the Ulster Gaeltacht, which is centered in Gweedore.

I was speaking to an older relative who still lives there. She told me after
the 2008 Irish banking crisis, all the local Allied Irish Bank branches there
closed down, with the closest branch then 20 km away - which is still the
case. The closest branch after that was and is 50 km away. Not a great
harbinger for the vitality of the Gaeltacht.

~~~
frabbit
By coincidence I was just watching an 8 year old Teilifís na Gaeilge (TG4)
program in which the protagonist attempts to travel the length and breadth of
Ireland speaking only 'as Gaeilge'.

The scenes in which he attempts to get state-run tourist services to
communicate with him in one of the official lanaguages of Ireland are painful.
In particular his visit to the prison cell in which his grandmother (one of
the 1916 revolutionaries) was incarcerated starts off badly:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyll-
bBZzyk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyll-bBZzyk)

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daleharvey
Its quite curious seeing this headline, Duolingo recently added Gaelic and
alongside the Scottish Independence movement it seems at least within my
bubble to be having somewhat of a revival,

396k active learners @ [https://www.duolingo.com/enroll/gd/en/Learn-Scottish-
Gaelic](https://www.duolingo.com/enroll/gd/en/Learn-Scottish-Gaelic) including
a large amount of people I know, I havent started yet but have been tempted

~~~
maaarghk
The headline does feel surprising but then it goes on to mention on the ground
research that people who learn the language the "normal" way (i.e. from
parents and the community) are the population in scope for the study.

~~~
ashtonkem
The definition of a language being “living” or “dead” is centered around
native speakers.

I would bet that a tiny percentage of Gaelic duolingo learners will ever use
it in conversation.

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pessimizer
I would guess that because the Scottish accents are so distinct (to the point
of being unintelligible to many English speakers unless the speaker is making
an effort rather than just speaking in a relaxed manner) and well known, it
provides a lot of the identity that the effort to preserve Scottish Gaelic
needs to rely on. And Scottish accents don't seem to be weakening much.

~~~
phonypc
Worth noting the Scots language is also a thing, separate from Scottish
English and Gaelic.

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ruairidhc
Scottish Gaelic has been proclaimed dying for as long as I remember. Despite
my name being Gaelic (I am Scottish), the amount of "public" (tax) money that
has been poured into the language by our devolved government (>£28
million/year) is appauling. The phrase "that which is falling should also be
pushed" comes to mind.

Edit: typo

~~~
jfim
28 million GBP a year seems pretty small, budget-wise. How much is that per
capita?

~~~
ashtonkem
The Scottish budget is £34B. So Scotland is spending 0.08% of their budget on
Gaelic education, which seems pretty inconsequential.

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tyingq
Are there any similar articles about Gaelic in Ireland? I'm curious where it
stands as a language.

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neurobashing
Apparently Gaelic has been dying for quite some time. David Mitchell has a
rant on the topic from 10 years ago
[https://youtu.be/OvlQXPNwrqo](https://youtu.be/OvlQXPNwrqo)

~~~
frabbit
Before ranting David Mitchell would be wise to learn the difference between:

\- Gallic == of, or pertaining to France

\- Gaelic == the dialect of Irish spoken in Scotland

\- An Gaeilge (or just 'Irish' seeing as he's an English speaker) == the
dialect of Irish spoken in Ireland

Also, although I like David Mitchell's comedy (Peep Show in particular) I
doubt that Scottish people are terribly interested in English people's
opinions on whether their language should be destroyed. Still, it's probably
good for the next independence referendum.

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sys_64738
Do they teach this language in British schools like they teach Irish Gaelic in
Irish schools?

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beaner
Make learning it a requirement for immigration. If the locals want to preserve
it without their own effort, they can sell it in exchange for living in their
country.

~~~
ashtonkem
Countries can make language learning a requirement for immigration when
they’re already attracting a large number of immigrants; it’s not uncommon to
see work permits in rich European countries list fluency in the official
language as a requirement. This naturally reduces the level of immigration,
but that might be an acceptable trade off if you’re already an attractive
country.

But is Scotland really attracting enough immigrants to make that a
requirement? If a country isn’t already an attractive spot for immigration,
such requirements would effectively bring immigration to a complete and utter
stop.

~~~
GordonS
Fluency in Gaelic would be a pointless requirement thought, since the point is
that very few locals speak Gaelic.

Gaelic is only really spoken on the west coast, and even then very sparsely
and mainly by older people. I don't like the idea of a language dieing out,
but realistically I don't see Gaelic going any other way; any opportunity for
a Gaelic renaissance has long since past.

Disclaimer: I'm Scottish

~~~
ashtonkem
I think Gaelic has finally fallen below the necessary threshold for survival;
all that remains is for the last native speakers to age out of the population.

There are a couple of languages that have or are going through this process on
mainland Europe, including Occitan, Bavarian, and Franconian. The creation of
the modern nation state and globalization have been very hard on non-major
languages.

~~~
GordonS
I agree - it was on borrowed time since the 1600's when it was forbidden, and
we were apathetic in modern times. A few futile efforts were made, which never
seemed serious even in their conception. Scots Gaelic is all but dead.

Realistically, it would be a _very_ tough sell to try to cling on any longer -
as you mentioned, globalisation has taken a toll on languages. Personally, my
father spoke basic Gaelic, and his parents spoke it as a second language to
English, so I don't feel particularly sentimental about it.

~~~
ashtonkem
The only chance Gaelic has is the separation of Scotland from the United
Kingdom. You occasionally see old languages come roaring back when a group of
people is split back out from a larger political entity that they’d joined.
This basically happened to modern Czech in the 1800s, with the elites rushing
to revive a language that had been losing out locally to German.

But that ... is a much bigger ball of wax than just Gaelic.

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mixedCase
Do we need every language in use to survive in an everyday setting?

Latin is dead, and yet it still permeates much of the world in some form or
another.

It's important that we document and keep a good record of the language, the
culture it accompanies and any other relevant context; I think this is obvious
to most people. But to force people who don't naturally want to learn the
language to do so for sentimental reasons doesn't sound like the way to
preserve it as a source of joy.

~~~
chrisseaton
> Latin is dead

Latin isn't dead. School children all around the world still learn it. It's
still taught at universities. It's still used as the living language of the
Catholic Church. I wouldn't be surprised if Latin is fairly high up the list
of second-languages people learn.

~~~
corty
School children learning latin is very high on the list of pointless drudgery
our school system imposes on our children. We do waste lots of money, teachers
and childrens' lifetime and attention.

~~~
ashtonkem
Learning a language is a skill; it’s been shown that you learn your _second_
foreign language much easier than your first. Teaching students a years worth
of Latin and then transitioning to another living language is actually a
fairly effective teaching strategy.

~~~
corty
You might as well teach multiple living languages. Using a dead to teach
language learning is a waste of a good opportunity.

~~~
ashtonkem
The first language is lost; there’s no need for it to be “useful”. In some
ways it’s mildly preferable for it to be a language that no student is likely
to return to, but that is incredibly unlikely no matter what the first
language is.

Then again, given the incredibly low level of bilingual native born Americans,
one should probably examine the purpose of second language education given
that it basically doesn’t stick.

~~~
corty
My first language at school was english, same as for the majority of german
children. It stuck sufficiently for me to talk to you right now.

My second language, Latin, didn't really stick, I couldn't order a meal if I
were starving in latin...

