
iPadOS - pgm8705
https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/03/the-ipad-finally-outgrows-ios/
======
davemp
> Apple Pencil latency is dropping from 20ms to 9ms,

This is why I respect Apple. Most tech forums would have been flooded people
whinging about how mere humans can’t perceive such low latencies and how
improving them is a waste. Meanwhile Apple knows not to leave anything on the
table for UX.

~~~
headsoup
Actually I think it highlights how well Apple manage their message and keep
people focused on them: most people probably don't notice or actually care
about the difference in latency, and 9ms is not the best in the market, yet it
becomes a 'good news story' validating Apple

~~~
HugoDaniel
Latencies bellow 16ms require a refresh rate higher than 60Hz.

For 9ms you need at least 90Hz. Don't know many who do that. Specially if you
take in consideration the battery hit that the faster update rate requires.

~~~
sobani
Don't those latencies add up?

In the worst case 60Hz + this new pen will add up to (16 + 9) 15ms of latency,
right?

If the screen refreshes at T=0,16,33,50 and you create input at T=8 then the
input will be processed at T=17 (8+9), so you will need to wait for T=33
before it show up for a total latency of 25ms (33-8).

Which is a lot better than the potential total latency of 36ms with a 20ms
pen.

~~~
georgyo
People seem to be down voting without explaining.

Refresh rate isn't latency. Though you are right that you do have to wait for
the screen to redraw.

There is screen latency as a completely separate number though, and those
would add up. Many lcd monitors can have up to a 20ms latency. And those
numbers would add up like you suggest. It's why gaming monitors can charge a
bunch for their 1ms latency at 60hz.

It is also possible to have 120hz and 20ms latency. The numbers are not
related.

I don't know what the iPads screen latency is.

~~~
ghusbands
No, refresh rate directly affects latency. At a refresh rate of 60Hz (without
gsync/freesync), with input arriving at arbitrary times, you have an average
of half a frame (and a maximum of a whole frame) of unavoidable latency, above
and beyond whatever other latency may exist.

If you have enough control over your devices, you can arrange for your input
to arrive at just the right time to be included in each frame without extra
latency, though.

The kind of latency you describe is that internal to the display; it could be
called the video-signal-to-photon latency. The parent you're replying to is
explaining the action-to-video-signal and compute-to-video-signal latency, and
its effects on the action-to-photon latency.

------
bitL
Will there be a multi-user mode? Perfect for separating work from home or
multiple clients... It would make iPad so much more usable as a single device
for both work and fun.

~~~
speleding
I'm hoping for this. If you have little kids in your house you cannot safely
use the iPad Mail client, for example

~~~
JustSomeNobody
Settings->General->Accessibility->Guided access.

This is pretty cool. It keeps them within the app I want them to be in. you
can even set it up so that when they're watching a movie, you can disable taps
so they can't exit the video accidentally.

~~~
chrsstrm
It took my 3yo niece about a week to learn how to escape guided access. At
that point it became more of a hassle then a help. It might be fine for
toddlers but for any kids over 2 you need a fully sandboxed profile if you’re
not handing them a dedicated tablet.

~~~
Redoubts
She guessed your pin?

~~~
chrsstrm
Yup, she brute-forced it. This was back before touchID and faceID and IIRC GA
pins were only four digits. The game quickly changed from let’s watch cartoons
to let’s figure out how to change apps.

~~~
BoorishBears
I mean, I just checked and now the pin is 6 digits long, and there's a 10
second time out between attempts.

Your original comment implies there's some kind of fundamental flaw with GA
that makes it useless, which apparently couldn't be further from the truth.

Even with a 4 digit pin it takes 5 seconds to change it if it's figured out,
and if the child has enough time to brute force 10,000 possible combinations
without you being able to intervene and rebuff that behavior, I'd say that's
it's own problem.

~~~
darrenf
10,000 combinations aren't required. The child stops when the answer is right.
And if they've ever noticed one or two digits when watching the parent unlock
the iPad for them to use, it drops to 1,000 or 100 max.

~~~
BoorishBears
Maybe you’re not aware, but technically you can guess any number in one try,
saying you brute forced something with 10,000 combinations doesn’t mean it
took 10k tries.

10k is a representation of the fact it’s not likely to guess it easily, and
the new GA lock increases that number to 1 million combinations with 10 second
lockouts.

Not to mention, you should yes, generally avoid showing a pin to the person
you’re keeping out.

You don’t need to enter the pin to use GA. It’s also not the same pin used to
unlock the iPad as your comment seems to imply.

------
ChuckMcM
Yay! I am sick and tired of crappy iPhone ports to the iPad where it wants to
turn my iPad pro into a ginormous phone screen. At least now I hope that crap
goes away.

It has been fascinating to watch the evolution of the iPad version of iOS and
the desktop version of Windows 10 to better support a screen/pen/detachable
keyboard sort of world.

~~~
dperfect
I don't think this will do anything to help with the "crappy iPhone [app]
ports to the iPad", at least not for a while. Those apps will still be there,
and they'll likely still be approved in the future.

From my understanding, "iPadOS" is essentially just a marketing signal that
the iPad-version of the OS will have more features unique to iPad. For
developers, Xcode will still have the option to compile the same codebase for
iOS and iPadOS. It's up to the developer to take advantage of more screen real
estate when available, though SwiftUI will probably make that easier on the
developer (i.e., more likely to show up in the apps you use).

~~~
ramraj07
The biggest plus here is going to be that we can use desktop-grade web apps on
the iPad. That has single handedly been the biggest hurdle!

------
AdmiralAsshat
This feels like it could become a repeat of Android Honeycomb, but iOS is a
much more mature operating system now than Android was at the time, so I guess
we'll have to wait and see.

~~~
ihuman
What happened with Honeycomb?

~~~
kevinslashslash
Gingerbread, Android 2.3, was released December 2010 for phones.

Honeycomb, Android 3.0, was released Feb 2011 for tablets. It was a radical
new UI and introduced several new APIs. It was the largest Android update
ever, except that no devices were updated to it. Android tablets didn't sell
very well and developers had little to no reason to support Honeycomb.

Ice Cream Sandwich, Android 4.0, October 2011. This refined the Honeycomb
changes and was appropriate for use on phones. It did work on tablets but
wasn't really optimized for them until 4.1/jellybean.

Honeycomb wasn't a fork or anything, but the strong divergence and poor sales
of Android tablets meant that no one wanted to target Honeycomb until they
were actually targeting Ice Cream Sandwich, and then at that point it was
barely worth supporting Honeycomb tablets, but still work supporting
Gingerbread phones.

I don't think it's particular relevant to the iPadOS situation.

~~~
vmlinuz
Technically, there was at least one device updated to Honeycomb - the HTC
Flyer was originally released with Gingerbread and was later upgraded. I know,
because I've still got mine, as handed out by Google at workshops where they
tried to persuade everyone to use Fragments for everything. I think they've
largely stopped trying by now...

Also relevant, that Honeycomb wasn't released into AOSP until ICS, which meant
there were no third-party builds or even support from off-name brands.

------
sylens
the multi-tasking/multi-window looks incredibly complicated, full of hidden
gestures/commands that aren't really discoverable

~~~
zmb_
The one multi-window functionality I need is the ability have the iPad in
portrait mode and split the screen horizontally. That way I could have a book
or movie on top and notes on the bottom. It seems that iPadOS _still_ cannot
do this very basic thing. It's frustrating beyond belief knowing that this
device could be so much more useful with that tiny basic functionality that
has existed in GUIs for decades.

(And why on Earth does iOS allow me to split a portrait mode vertically,
creating two thin strips that are seemingly useless for any work?)

~~~
stormbeta
Not to mention the inability to split the keyboard - on iPad sized devices,
trying to thumb type without a split keyboard is a huge pain in the ass.

~~~
pcr910303
I’ve used split keyboards in iPads since I bought them 3 yrs ago. Split
keyboards were there forever.

~~~
macintux
iPads Pro, at least the largest one, don’t have the feature for some
inexplicable reason.

~~~
reanimated
Except it does: [https://www.cio.com/article/3042242/ipad-pro-how-to-use-
the-...](https://www.cio.com/article/3042242/ipad-pro-how-to-use-the-split-
keyboard-in-ios.html)

~~~
macintux
...sorta.

------
darzu
Honestly these new changes (esp. the second monitor for MacOS support, if it
works well) will probably finally get me to buy an iPad. This all looks very
good to me. Real file system browser; much better multi-tasking; closer
integration with macbook.

~~~
freetime2
I think we've crossed the point where, for most people, an iPad (or surface)
makes more sense for personal use than a laptop. I have one of the recent iPad
Air models and find it more enjoyable to use for everyday tasks like web
browsing, light photo editing and sharing, goofing off on youtube, etc. Had I
known I was going to like it so much, I probably would have sprung for the
more expensive iPad Pro model with face ID, the new pencil, etc. My personal
laptop mostly sits unused these days. Admittedly there are some tasks, like
booking travel for example, where I still prefer to use a laptop - but those
seem to be less and less of an issue over time.

For development work, I don't see my MacBook Pro going away any time soon. But
I do see the iPad becoming more incorporated into my professional workflow. It
sits on my desk while I'm working and I use it to run things like iTunes,
email, slack, and personal reminders - where they feel like less of a
distraction than when I run those things on my desktop. Integration between my
macbook and ipad is already pretty great when it comes to handoff, airdrop,
messages, notes, etc - and Apple seems committed to continued improvement as I
think they realize that seamless integration is one of the things that makes
people stick within their ecosystem.

~~~
culturestate
This has been exactly my experience. If I’m working out of an office (I do a
lot of on-prem consulting) I often leave my laptop at the desk during the week
and use my iPad at home - it cuts down on the weight in my bag and has a small
side benefit of helping me be better at separating work and personal time.

------
runesoerensen
More info in the press release [https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/the-
new-ipados-powers...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/the-new-ipados-
powers-unique-experiences-designed-for-ipad/)

~~~
Tepix
Thanks! So it runs on iPad Air 2 and up. That‘s nice! The iPad Air 2 was
released in late 2014!

~~~
skunkworker
My iPad Air 1 is just now being sunsetted. Well It's been a good 5.5 years
with continuous updates.

It's been my most dependable device ever. No battery replacement, daily use,
LTE still works great.

~~~
rangibaby
I have an iPad 3 from 2012 that still gets a couple of hours of Youtube
between charges

------
Apocryphon
So much for the prevailing rumor that Apple was going to create fewer
platforms by merging macOS with iOS.

~~~
jrochkind1
Oh, I dunno, it wouldn't surprise me if iPadOS is a step in that direction,
and some future laptop runs... iPadOS and there is no more MacOS.

~~~
Apocryphon
So a Chromebook move

~~~
saagarjha
With the ability to run full Google Docs in Safari, I don't really doubt this.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
What's old is new again! Mac OS became Mac OS X became OS X became macOS.
iPhone OS, whatever it was called on the iPod touch and iPad OS merged to be
called iOS, and now there's a new iPadOS.

~~~
djrogers
No, the OS on iPads and iPods Touch was always called iOS - the OS was only
called iPhone OS for a very short period of time.

~~~
wuliwong
Your comment contradicts itself. It wasn't always called iOS if it was called
iPhone OS "for a very short period of time."

And the period of time was not "very short" by my definition at least.

According to [0]:

> Apple announced iPhone OS 1 at the iPhone keynote on January 9, 2007, and it
> was released to the public alongside the original iPhone on June 29, 2007. >
> Apple announced iPhone OS 2 at the iPhone software roadmap keynote in March
> 2008, and it was released to the public on July 11, 2008 alongside the
> iPhone 3G. > Apple announced iPhone OS 3 in March 2009, and it was released
> to the public on June 17, 2009 alongside the iPhone 3GS. > Apple announced
> iOS 4 in March 2010 and it was released to the public on June 21, 2010
> alongside the iPhone 4.

It was called iPhone OS for roughly 3 years. About 25% of the time since the
OS was released it was called iPhone OS.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history#iPhone_OS_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history#iPhone_OS_1)

~~~
brandonfro
The iPod touch and iPad were not released when iOS was called iPhone OS.

~~~
george_perez
The iPod touch launched 2 months after the original iPhone launched, and they
both ran iPhone OS. Why are you so stubborn over something that can be easily
searched and debunked?

iPhone OS existed until iPhone OS 3.2.2 when it was renamed to iOS in iOS 4.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history)

~~~
tinus_hn
IOS (and iPhone) were trademarks owned by Cisco so Apple had to license them.
As far as I remember for iPhone they just released it and then bargained using
the exclusive vpn client being Cisco’s. I don’t know what they gave for iOS.

------
cpeterso
Will iPadOS include a calculator app?

~~~
McDev
iPads still don't have a calculator app? I find that baffling.

~~~
xienze
It's probably because the iPhone calculator app is a four function calculator,
and porting that as-is to the iPad would look absolutely comical.

~~~
kayamon
If you turn it to landscape you get a scientific calculator.

~~~
xienze
Huh. All these years I've never thought to do that, always thought it was just
a four function calculator.

Even the scientific calculator would look pretty silly blown up that large
though.

~~~
asark
IIRC phone-mode apps that allow it can run on an iPad in a framed mode so they
don't look too weird. I get why they don't do that with the calculator because
it'd be "poor UX" but "what do you mean I spent $1200 on this and there's no
fucking calculator, my Apple phone and laptop both have one, you mean I gotta
go sort through the app store to find something that's not gonna show me ads,
then probably pay some more money on top of that $1200, to get a calculator, I
mean there was one in Windows 3.1 FFS" is even worse UX.

~~~
em500
You can just pull down the universal search bar and type your sum there (as I
just learned in this thread).

------
pathartl
Apple in 2009: Web browsing on a desktop is cumbersome and painful Apple in
2019: We've brought the desktop browsing experience to the iPad

I mean I get it, they're maturing the platform. But window snapping and home
screen widgets seem very "Windows Vista". That combined with the new swipe
keyboard and finally adding storage support... it really just seems like
playing catch up for things that have existed for over a decade now.

I would personally never use a device for professional work unless I had full
control over the software on that device. Being locked in by the app store is
still a non-starter for me.

~~~
zapzupnz
> it really just seems like playing catch up

At the surface level, it does. However, at the implementation level, I think
Apple is slowly reimagining all of these things for a new paradigm — and the
new paradigm has needed time to evolve slowly, for Apple to see what
directions its users and developers wanted to go in, and to take the time to
decide how to do things.

For example: the sidebar on Vista was next to useless because (A) its widgets
didn't tap into any data people wanted, (B) the widgets weren't the right size
to show any useful information, and (C) didn't fare any better on Windows 7
because they were buried under windows. iOS widgets, on the other hand,
directly tap into applications, can come in variable sizes, have a somewhat
uniform presentation style, and one visits the Home screen many more times
than one clicks the Show Desktop button on Windows.

Windows Vista gadgets and OS X Dashboard widgets seemed to be little toys, the
styling to look like a little desktop accessory being more important than
their actual utility. The way that iPadOS integrates Today Widgets with the
home screen is more like putting useful information directly at users'
disposal. Pair this with widgets like Shortcuts, Launch Center Pro, or
Pythonista, and you also have a means for quickly starting workflows.

iPad's multiple windows isn't really window snapping in the same sense as on
Windows. That's just an implementation detail. The actual concept, at least as
of iPadOS (as opposed to iOS 11 and 12), is more like macOS' Spaces or Mission
Control.

All in all, to appreciate something, you have to appreciate all the little
details. To me, Today Widgets on the Home screen have the potential to offer
productivity improvements similar to Alfred. I'm sure there'll be apps with
widgets specifically crafted to take advantage of this.

~~~
pathartl
I completely get what you're saying. Thinking about it more now, I was pretty
off. Yeah, those were the reasons that Windows widgets failed and Dashboard
Widgets on OS X were always hidden which made them pretty unusable. But, on
Android I've got a ton of options for widgets and I still don't use them.

I think the only useful one I've really found is weather. Maybe that's because
I don't use my calendar. Just going through the list of the ones I have
available, I don't see any that really bring any value to what I'm doing.

What's replaced what I've used widgets for in the past is more context-aware
tasks. I've got tasks in tasker for doing things like when I plug into the
headphone jack, either my podcasts app or music app pops up (depending on
which was accessed last).

Obviously I'm more of a power user, but I really think iOS/iPad OS could
benefit from a workflow subsystem. Things like activities in Android and the
AppleScript system in macOS are insanely powerful for professional users.
Unfortunately, it seems like most Apple apps in macOS seem to be doing away
with AppleScript API's.

~~~
kristofferR
You haven't heard of Shortcuts I guess? Read this and the following pages:
[https://www.macstories.net/stories/ios-12-the-macstories-
rev...](https://www.macstories.net/stories/ios-12-the-macstories-
review/9/#content)

With iOS 13 it gets added as a default app and the shortcuts can be run
automatically by triggers, so it's like a more user friendly and natively
integrated version of Tasker.

It seems like the triggers in iOS 13b1 are Time of Day - Alarm (Stopped or
started) - Apple Watch workout - Arrive/Leave Location - Connect to CarPlay -
Airplane Mode - WiFi - BlueTooth - Do Not Disturb - Low Power Mode - NFC Tag -
Open App (ex. “When I Open Reddit”)

------
rhodysurf
I am nervous this means Apple will hold back features from iOS to get people
to buy an iPad. For example, they announced the new Files app with iPadOS but
there is no reason that shouldn't all be available on an iPhone.

~~~
saagarjha
iPhone doesn’t have a screen large enough or a USB connector…how would you use
the “new Files app”?

~~~
colechristensen
It has a USB connector with the appropriate adapter.

Pixel 3A comes with a USB C to A (female) adapter in the box which makes it
seem like this kind of thing is going mainstream.

------
chronogram
> you’ll be able to grab files from USB-C flash drives

That sounds useful. Reaching NeXTSTEP functionality soon enough.

~~~
m_mueller
Well, for that it would need Xcode. And multi-user.

------
lukejduncan
Finger cross this includes a first class calculator...

~~~
kondro
Just buy PCalc and support an awesome indie developer.

~~~
ianai
Are there any other options? Pcalc actually has many people complaining about
lack of features.

~~~
WillPostForFood
It's an untraditional calculator, but I love Soulver from Acqualia. It is
always one of the first things I install on a new iPhone or Mac.

[https://www.acqualia.com/soulver/iphone/](https://www.acqualia.com/soulver/iphone/)

~~~
RBerenguel
Alternatively, I use a lot for a long while Tydlig. Sadly it has been stagnant
for a while (I'd like to be able to save "sheets", for instance). But its
interaction mode (akin to a spreadsheet, in a sense) is very refreshing.

[http://tydligapp.com](http://tydligapp.com)

~~~
tsar_nikolai
+1 for tydlig, among the first apps I install on every new iPhone

------
uses
As a web developer, what on earth does this mean?

> desktop sites are now the default in Safari

Surely it's not some kind of meddling with the device width to make responsive
web design even more confusing. That would be very odd.

My hope is that it's some kind of user agent manipulation that thwarts device
sniffing so you don't see a mobile phone stylesheet or get redirected to a
mobile site while using your iPad.

~~~
wlesieutre
Yep, that's it. Even major websites have this problem, with YouTube being a
particularly bad one. If you have an iPad handy try loading up YouTube, then
do a long-press on the reload button and request desktop site. It's a much
better experience.

I don't have the betas, but I expect Apple is applying this automatically
based on viewport size. Full screen Safari instance? Desktop page. Narrow
viewport in split or slide-over multitasking? Mobile page.

~~~
strmpnk
"long-press on the reload button"

Wow. I've somehow missed this little gem. I usually requested the desktop site
via the share sheet option but this is far nicer. Ditto for a quick way to
disable content blockers. Thanks!

~~~
wlesieutre
The other Safari pro-tip: long press the new tab button to reopen recently
closed tabs

~~~
wyre
Im always fascinated by program shortcuts almost no one knows about. How did
you learn about long pressing in safari?

~~~
FireBeyond
This is what always confuses me when people say "macOS/iOS is soooo
intuitive!" \- discoverability of features is well, horrible. You have to
long/3d/long 3d press all manner of elements to discover, not to mention
single/two/three finger swipes in differing directions, from screen, from
edge.

~~~
zapzupnz
Because these gestures are akin to keyboard shortcuts — they're not the only
way to do achieve something, just a convenient shortcut. One could always
request the desktop site via the Share sheet.

~~~
wlesieutre
It's worse because keyboard shortcuts you could learn from the menu bar. Mac
convention has been that all shortcuts should be discoverable there, and you
even see the menu title flash when you hit it.

To your point about request desktop site being in the share sheet, that's
true. But recently closed tabs are not.

Advanced iOS features are definitely less discoverable. But it's a trade-off
for how easy the essentials are.

------
bdcravens
No information on whether the iPad Pro keyboard is fully compliant in terms of
arrow keys, etc. This really gets in the way of things like Cloud 9, hosted VS
Code, etc.

~~~
freehunter
As much as people (myself included) wish we could do native development on the
iPad, I would quickly settle for just supporting Cloud 9. The only reason I
have to bring two laptops and an iPad with me when I travel instead of just
one laptop and an iPad is because Cloud 9 doesn't work on an iPad, for
absolutely no good reason.

~~~
antfarm
Off-topic: "Opening workspaces (including access to databases and app
frameworks) will be disabled on June 30, 2019. Cloud9 will stop working on
December 31, 2019." [[https://c9.io/login](https://c9.io/login)]

~~~
freehunter
Yes they were bought by Amazon, so c9.io is shutting down but AWS Cloud9 is
the replacement.

------
djrogers
Looks like they ran out of time for all the features, but MOUSE SUPPORT!!!

[https://twitter.com/reneritchie/status/1135643633690992640](https://twitter.com/reneritchie/status/1135643633690992640)

~~~
clairity
yes, finally!

voice control (an accessibility feature for now) lays the groundwork for more
pervasive computing for all, but mouse support fills a hole until that
happens.

i don't think voice control will replace physical controls, but do think it
will grow in usage over time to become an important augment to physical
controls.

now i'm just waiting for pervasive handwriting input with realtime OCR and
indexing (for instant search), which can replace all sorts of note-taking and
annotation workflows (and the requisite printing to paper that now often
entails).

------
tosh
I hope iPads (and iPhones) also get support for the 3rd party gaming
controllers like Xbox or Playstation (like they announced for Apple tv)

~~~
virtuallynathan
They are getting it:
[https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/features/](https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/features/)

------
ncr100
Pencil latency drop to 9ms is best I've seen.

~~~
fumar
Is that for both gen 1 and gen 2 pencils?

~~~
jgon
The small print on the page that mentions this stat says that the measurements
were taken on a new 12.9 inch iPad Pro using the Gen 2 Apple Pencil. Not sure
what latency reductions may make their way to the other iPads, but nothing is
stated right now.

~~~
fumar
I have the 10.5 in Pro and Apple Pencil 1. I wonder if the 20 ms vs 9 ms is
detectable by the human eye.

~~~
pcr910303
It can be very detectable, I'd say. Try watching this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4)
It shows the difference between from >100ms to ~1ms. It's mind baffling.

~~~
ksec
I wonder how did they manage it. Even the Screen itself has a 1 - 4ms latency.
That is excluding the Input latency and Software in between.

------
pgm8705
Some of the features look pretty great but I can't help but fear the day when
they decide to discontinue the Macbook.

~~~
threeseed
MacBooks are selling well and it is their gateway model so crucial for the
overall ecosystem.

Far more likely is that you see a MacBook with ARM CPU.

------
colechristensen
Interesting development, I'd had the impression that they were moving towards
MacOS on all devices, but I suppose it comes down to naming as very much is
shared, though it would be nice if a small macbook was actually the same as a
large ipad with a keyboard.

------
humantiy
It seemed like they were on a path to make everything iOS including the
laptops. Granted it was more of a iOS-ification, but seemed like the general
direction. Now I'm curious if this is a shift in direction if they are going
to split ipads from ios.

------
socialist_coder
I'm having a hard time finding any info about how this affects iOS / iPadOS
app development. Do you still just build & submit once and it targets both
platforms?

------
exabrial
For awhile apple was trying to "bring iOS features to the desktop", thankfully
now they've realized each device form requires a special user interface.

------
m0zg
I wish they'd introduce multiple accounts on the iPad. That, and let me
directly and securely access files (and in particular my humongous photo
library) on my Mac over WiFi, without all the iCloud bullshit. I know it's not
going to happen, and Apple will continue to pretend this is not something
users want, but one can have dreams, am I right?

------
EB66
As if compiling hybrid mobile apps across all platforms wasn't enough of a
pain already ;)

Anyone know what this might mean for Cordova users?

------
fghtr
So Apple goes the opposite way compared with Purism: making different OS for
every device. What's the point?

~~~
velcrovan
Maybe we’ll be able to discuss this more concretely once Purism has actually
shipped a mobile device.

------
LesZedCB
I remember when apple was lauded for unifying the forked os for ipad into iOS.

i guess they changed their minds.

~~~
zapzupnz
It's just marketing. It's still iOS.

------
Rhedox
Would've loved to see XCode for i(Pad)OS. Or any kind of developer support.

------
universenz
The most exciting aspect of this is the resizable text / view port zoom in
Safari. Productivity is going to go through the roof!

------
kmlx
now that both the mouse and the local storage work, can we finally code on
this thing with a real local codebase and server?

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mmargerum
Was kinda hoping for trackpad / mouse support and maybe a laptop form factor.

~~~
scarface74
They didn’t announce it. But they added mouse and trackpad support under
Accessibility.

[https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/11356536361455902...](https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/1135653636145590273?s=21)

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jrochkind1
On the road to phasing out MacOS?

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NN88
SIDECAR!!

~~~
robohoe
That looks like a fantastic feature, especially due to the fact that you can
use Apple Pencil to control your Mac. I wonder if that will cannibalize Wacom
sales. Having used both Apple Pencil + iPad Pro and a Wacom tablet
(separately), I found it real hard to draw on the Wacom table without seeing
what I'm drawing under the pencil.

~~~
freehunter
Wacom is one thing, but I'm wondering how quickly Duet [1] will shut down.

[1] [https://www.duetdisplay.com/](https://www.duetdisplay.com/)

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getcrunk
What about mouse support?

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MaupitiBlue
But no mouse support. :(

~~~
Creationer
USB-C/Bluetooth Mouse and Keyboard support, including on extra screens when
plugged in, would have been a killer feature.

I guess Apple thought it would cannibalise Mac sales too much?

~~~
farisjarrah
Wouldn't Apple be okay with everyone switching over to their own iOS based ARM
products? They wouldn't have to deal with Intel for processors regular CPU's
anymore and they wouldn't have to support an extra software architecture on
the development side of things.

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Creationer
I think the Apple of old that was willing to make bold decisions, even at the
expense of part of its own product range, is gone. Soon Apple will start
selling printers again!

Its exactly as Steve Jobs predicted:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBma82g3Uag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBma82g3Uag)

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OldSchoolJohnny
Why are we as developers giving this company any of our business when they've
thumbed their noses at us for decades?

~~~
threeseed
Weird. As a developer I haven't found Apple to be thumbing their nose at me.

Many of their features are genuinely useful for my development e.g. TouchBar.

~~~
eppsilon
Genuinely curious: how have you found TouchBar useful for development? I think
you're the first dev I've seen say that.

~~~
threeseed
Because I can fully customise it using something like BetterTouchTool.

And so in IntelliJ I have custom buttons for executing common commands. I
never remembered what each function key does in each app so it's useful for
me.

