
Startup using a custom Portal 2 level to recruit engineers - alex_lod
http://jobs.wibidata.com/puzzles/portal/
======
Osmium
I say this partly in jest but... it's nice to see a lean startup using its
limited resources correctly by creating levels for Portal 2. For all I know,
this could've been an employee's pet project, but if not I'm not sure I see
the value.

Also, the jobs homepage lede is a little grating:

"We're seeking brilliant people ..." [Click "I'm brilliant" to continue]

Because who doesn't think they deserve brilliant people? Nice employers and a
good corporate culture are obviously very important, but can't it be taken too
far? I think, what it comes down to, is that I don't like seeing a company's
_ego_ on display so brazenly, especially when they're a startup which still
has a lot to prove.

~~~
TillE
This whole obsession over Super Ninja Rockstar MegaUltraDevelopers is getting
to be a bit much. Everyone says they want the top 0.1%, which they just aren't
going to get. Maybe it's because I don't consider myself "brilliant". I'm a
reasonably intelligent guy with a good education, loads of experience, and a
diverse skillset. But I'm not a genius. Very few are.

You've gotta be realistic, and I get the impression that unless a company is
paying rather large salaries and/or offering extremely interesting problems to
solve, they're only likely to attract people with overinflated egos with that
kind of rhetoric, rather than the true best of the best.

~~~
madaxe
The best hires are fresh CS/maths grads with little commercial experience and
a burning desire to learn.

All you have to do is provide an environment in which they can, provide a
raise as and when they "level up", provide infinite caffeine, interesting
problems, and the rest, as they say, is history.

~~~
sramsay
I assume you're basing that on your direct experience with twenty-five year
veterans who have used their complete mastery of a popular toolchain to ship a
couple of dozen production systems to customers who were in turn delighted by
the quality of the work and the high level of professionalism.

~~~
madaxe
Show me a 25 year master in web technologies.

I'm basing it on personal experience of having grown a company from nothing
without funding to an enterprise carrying over £1bn of client commerce in 6
years. But what would I know.

Oh, and 100% client retention and no marketing except word of mouth. I'd say
that's satisfaction.

~~~
somebehemoth
This is called a fallacy of dramatic instance. Your problem domain and your
company are satisfied with young programmers, but you cannot extrapolate that
to all software enterprises.

~~~
madaxe
Sure, but you can extrapolate it to the entire web industry, which is my
domain. I've built teams for clients (we started out taking equity in startups
in exchange for prototyping and team assembly), and in every instance have
followed that formula. In every instance they've had successful eight figure
exits.

Sure, it's likely not universally applicable, however you shouldn't
underestimate the power of an open mind.

~~~
sramsay
"you shouldn't underestimate the power of an open mind."

I'm not sure your ideas are quite as bold and radical as you think. In fact, I
would say that you're merely repeating the common liturgy of the industry.
Young tyros are more "creative" than seasoned veterans. Caffeine addled youths
have more exciting ideas. They have fewer preconceptions. They're more nimble.
They're in it for love of the game.

What I'm asking is why you're so sure all of this is true. "It's true because
I am successful" doesn't seem to me very persuasive.

~~~
madaxe
I see it as true because it's a repeatable experiment. I haven't argued that
my ideas are bold or radical, merely fact - and nor have I argued that this
differs from common liturgy. Neophytes are indeed more creative than seasoned
veterans, as they haven't condemned their minds to a single, myopic track of
thought, as many, and in fact most, do. "PL/SQL is the only structured query
language compliant with the PL/SQL specification and is therefore superior"
"MUMPS can achieve anything" "Fortran '77 is good enough".

I've worked both in orgs with "greybeards" and in the org I've founded along
with many clients. There's plenty to be said for veteran levels of experience,
but this is something that's only really needed in a leader, as this
experience can be communicated and demonstrated to others. A fool learns by
his own mistakes, a wise man by those of others. I suppose this makes me a
fool, but a fool who's decided to help others be wise, and to harness those
several decades of experience in such a fashion that it benefits all involved.

So yes, you have a point in that years of experience are indeed valuable, but
I would argue that this is not a prerequisite to be an exceptional engineer,
and that in fact truly exceptional engineers arise through memetic experience,
and a thirst for knowledge.

It's true that I speak from personal experience, but then again, so does every
scientist who finds a repeatable experiment. I'd be happy to be disproven, but
until then, I'm equally happy to treat what I find to be a valid theory as
fact.

Young, passionate individuals make the world go round. You only have to look
to the great leaps and bounds of science to witness this in visceral
actuality.

~~~
caw
> Neophytes are indeed more creative than seasoned veterans > I'd be happy to
> be disproven, but until then, I'm equally happy to treat what I find to be a
> valid theory as fact.

I thought for a while what is best to say, but perhaps I'll just go with a
counter-example: Intel. The founders were around 40 when they started the
company, and experienced in their industry. Not the 25 years mentioned above,
but I'm taking that as a hyperbole.

If it takes a young, creative individual to create a 1 billion pound company
in 6 years, what does it take to make a 54 billion dollar company in just over
40 years?

~~~
madaxe
Corruption.

------
blindhippo
Seems like fun...

But this type of thing doesn't help our profession be taken seriously. If
WibiData was a game company this would fit - but they do data analytics as far
as I can tell.

I am a professional software developer. I have a very specific skill set and I
expect to be treated properly. I do not appreciate it when people think I am a
"geek", or that I obviously play video games or are in to Star Trek[1]. When
it comes to my professional career I expected to be treated as an adult with a
valuable skillset that can add value to a business.

I wouldn't apply to this company frankly because this strategy belies a
culture that thinks development is all fun and games. Whether that's true or
not, doesn't matter. What they are communicating to me as a potential
applicant turns me off. (and the photos of a giant open room don't help either
- who the hell wants to work in an office like that?)

[1]note, just because I am totally into all that doesn't invalidate my point

~~~
fixedd
One of the other concerns when hiring is finding a fit for the company's
culture. Perhaps that's what they're trying to achieve.

~~~
blindhippo
That's probably exactly what they are doing. So I suppose I shouldn't be too
hard on them - they are conveniently broadcasting they have a youngish "play"
culture at work.

------
anonymouz
Kind of neat, but strange as a recruitment device: It seems difficult enough
to get good people, why would one put such an arbitrary filter as a first
barrier? People who don't play computer games or Portal 2 are probably much
less likely to apply that way.

~~~
jiggy2011
I see your point. I've been put off jobs in that past where the requirements
have listed stuff like "You must kick ass at Xbox games!" for completely non
gamedev jobs.

Now I love video games as much as the next geek and I've always assumed it was
a light hearted hint towards company culture rather than a hard requirement.

But I just find something a little off about stuff like this, like it sets off
a little red light in my brain that I can't put my finger on. We would
probably think it was weird if they said "we all love cricket so you should
too!", I guess it feels a little patronising to be told "of course you love
Xbox, you are a geek after all!"

As a Segue the use of the term "geek" in job descriptions irks me also.

Edit: Wording corrected

~~~
partisan
Some places mention that they have an XBox on site for you to play with, but
that's usually just a red flag for me. I love playing games, but if I am going
to be at work long enough to feel the urge to play then I am at work way too
long.

These are probably the same places that think adding an extra hour to your
work increases your productivity by 16%.

~~~
rhizome
"XBox on site," says to me, "we're (hiring) young people."

~~~
ruswick
It sort of irks me that people assume that 1) all young people play prodigious
amounts of games to the point where an X-Box is some sort of alluring factor,
and 2) only young people play games and that gaming is a way to differentiate
between ages. I am young, and I would be put off by this sort of thing. If the
most appealing part of your company is that you have an X-Box, you're doing it
wrong.

~~~
rhizome
It's not so much "XBox" as a specific device, but of the lifestyle and time
that younger people are more likely to pour into their early jobs. They're
simply more receptive to a job-includes-hobbies lifestyle. This doesn't
prevent older people from participating in this world, but statistics would
tell us that more older people have children and non-job hobbies. Frankly, as
an older person who owns a PS3 and Wii, it tells me that not only do they want
hanger-outers for employees, but ones that play specific kinds of games.

------
mephi5t0
Some people don't like video games, prefer sports, like skiing... Some people
play Settlers and/or Civilization or turn based strategies... They won't be
able to react or move quickly in Portal. It's like saying - we will hire you
but you need to BUY and DRIVE this motorbike through this hoop of fire... And
person don't even have driving license. Not to mention they were busy building
that hoop of fire instead of making their product in the first place (but
that's for them to decide how they want to run their business). I juts think
being a gamer is not requirement. If you can opt out and solve a chess puzzle
or a super fast Tetris or whatever - there should be alternatives, just like
audio capcha or sites for color blind people

~~~
mieubrisse
As others have pointed out, you can just submit your resume without playing.

------
drivingmenuts
On a side note: I wish startups would start putting the company location
somewhere in an easily accessible place. This would allow me to decide if an
application is a valid option due to geography.

~~~
mrgoldenbrown
I think these guys did that just fine - the same pages that lists open
positions includes locations: From the homepage, I clicked "jobs" then "see
our open positions" and I got a list of all open positions and their location.

<http://wibidata.theresumator.com/>

"Current Openings Administrative Assistant Location: San Francisco, CA
Department: Operations ..."

~~~
jaredsohn
Beyond the city, it is useful to know more precisely where in the city it is
located, so that one can determine if the commute will be worth it and if they
are okay with spending their workday in that neighborhood. Fortunately, they
also have a map on their about page (<http://jobs.wibidata.com/about/>).

------
juan_juarez
The irony is that, if they weren't busy designing Portal maps, they'd have
enough manpower to develop their product.

~~~
Falling3
That's really not how people work. Haven't you ever programmed all day at work
and then gone home to work on a personal project? It's very easy to get a
second wind when changing projects, especially if it is something you find
enjoyable.

And for all we know this was something that someone built outside of work they
realized could be put to this use.

------
makmanalp
I like these sort of recruitment teasers, mainly because if done well they
self-select for exactly the kind of person you want.

I think this is similar in effect to website job boards like the
joelonsoftware board or the hn jobs section, where the people who answer are
likelier to share your vision and opinions.

In this case you'd have to have Portal 2 already, but anyway. Maybe they're
looking for that :)

~~~
evan_
> I like these sort of recruitment teasers, mainly because if done well they
> self-select for exactly the kind of person you want.

In this case, 20-30 year old males.

~~~
pattern
What percentage of 20-30 year old males do you believe have played Portal (2),
saw this posting, had the inclination to download the mod, and the
inquisitiveness and persistance to actually complete the puzzle/test?

Rarely is a filter perfect, but this is likely a lot better than taking a
random sample from the population :)

~~~
Homunculiheaded
I think what the parent is pointing out that P(male, 20-30 | played through
the level) is higher than the existing P(male, 20-30 | applied for job)

------
eric-hu
Has anyone downloaded the mod and tried it?

I'm curious why they use this mod for recruiting, though I don't own Portal 2
and I'm not interested in applying to Wibidata. What the video shows of the
gameplay and puzzles are what I'd expect from Portal 2.

~~~
dsil
I played through it. There's 5 "tests", and it took me about 2 hours, though
now knowing the solutions I could play through again in probably 15 minutes,
so it just depends how long it takes you to figure them out.

Overall they're very good levels. A good bit more difficult than the base
game, and most of the other user-created levels I've played. I was a little
surprised that a couple places were more about reflexes than brainpower, since
I assume they're looking for good problem solvers rather than good first-
person-shooter players. But in general, very good puzzles implemented very
well.

------
kriro
email template for people who want to apply: I estimated it would take X time
units to finish this game. Instead I wrote this neat piece of software
(github-link) in that timespan.

Hire me, gg no re

------
waylonflinn
This is a fantastic idea. Cultural fit as selection criteria is more
appreciated than it used to be, but still underrated.

This nails it. I'll do this next time I need to recruit.

------
toonse
Clever idea although as others mention it's obviously a very biased selection,
but if they are OK with that, that's fine with me. I was all set to try it
just for kicks, but this turned me off and I quit the install:

"In this mod you're placed into the Wibi!Data office to reset a PIN for the
CEO of the company. You reset this by gathering reset keys and slowing
figuring out the reset code."

------
blktiger
Neat! Not great for applicants that they have to purchase a copy of Portal 2
on steam, but at least it should be fun. Also, I don't know if it's a good
thing to require engineers to apply by playing a game - but I guess it might
be good to identify people who would be a good cultural fit.

~~~
mrgoldenbrown
Can you explain where it says this is required? I just looked at their web
site and you can apply normally. The puzzles are optional.

~~~
blktiger
I guess it's technically not required unless you want to play the levels.

------
CWIZO
I think all of you are missing the point. They might have done this to create
a filter that would weed out people who wouldn't fit. But, I think the main
point was to attract as much attention as possible to the fact that they are
hiring. "Free" advertisement.

This thread proves they succeed beautifully.

------
devmach
I think it's a fun. But while "brilliant" people playing* portal 2, a clever
and unemployed person who has to pay his bills, will spend his time applying
for jobs, networking or/and building a product and try to maximize his
utility.

* : I mean really playing, not decompiling..

------
gstar
Is the typo deliberate? recuriting?

~~~
georgemcbay
Perhaps it is more "culture fitting".

Only rokstar geniouses need aply.

------
IWentToTheWoods
It's interesting to me how negative most of the comments are here, compared to
how positive they were for a very similar idea last week:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5081053>

------
Stratoscope
Can someone tell me what Portal 2 is?

Ah, forget it. I'm obviously not qualified for this job.

------
niggler
Anyone try portal 2 on Linux? How is the performance ?

~~~
ryan-c
WineHQ has it listed as 'Platinum'. I've played all the way through Half Life
2 and Portal using wine a while ago and they worked very well, but I can't
speak from experience on Portal 2.

[http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&...](http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=23278)

------
endtime
From the trailer, this looks like high quality stuff. I wonder what their
budget was! They certainly got my attention.

------
malcolmong
haha, this is awesome!

------
madaxe
Surely any engineer worth their salt will just grab a map decompiler - like
this one. <https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/BSPSource>

~~~
blahpro
Maybe this is part of the test ;-)

