
Big Sur on Unsupported Macs - todsacerdoti
https://parrotgeek.com/bigsur/
======
kenOfYugen
According to dosdude1's thread on macrumors.com[1], more devices will
eventually become compatible and wifi will get patched.

1\. [https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-11-big-sur-on-
uns...](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-11-big-sur-on-unsupported-
macs-thread.2242172/)

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Marioheld
I just upgraded my wifi card from my MacBook Pro (Retina, Mid 2012). And I
love it. Wifi AC and unlock with Apple Watch worked out of the box. Also the
upgrade process is easy to do and you have a reason to finally clean the
inside of your mac.

~~~
reubenswartz
Typing this on my Mid 2012 rMBP, I'm very interested in the details.

(I put off upgrading because of keyboard issues, and now with the new "Apple
Silicon" coming, plus, the machine is great-- I did replace the battery at one
point but other than that it's been completely solid.)

~~~
js2
Apparently you need a BCM94360CSAX from a rMBP 15" Late 2013.

[https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/147393/Can+I+use+its+802...](https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/147393/Can+I+use+its+802.11ac+AirPort+Card+on+my+RMBP+15+\(mid2012\))

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kup0
Just realized this is the first time my iMac will not support the next update
(iMac 14,3)- if this list is exhaustive and not subject to change, that is.

Due to other crashes and issues I had already been considering the switch to
Windows or Linux (I already use those operating systems for other PCs I have
in the house).

I've enjoyed using MacOS as my daily driver until Catalina, and even then,
there are things I still really like about it compared to other operating
systems, but especially now that Apple wants to force me to upgrade hardware
to run a newer OS, I'm not sure I want to stay in Apple land.

Maybe it's time.

~~~
jguimont
That is a 7 years old iMac. Apple is not forcing you.

~~~
tomxor
> That is a 7 years old iMac. Apple is not forcing you.

This attitude needs to stop.

If a user's needs are met with a 7 year old machine and they are happy without
upgrading then artificially obsoleting it in the name of capitalism is not
progress, it's irresponsible.

~~~
reaperducer
If he was required to upgrade to Big Sur in order to keep his computer
working, I'd agree with you. But nobody is forcing him to upgrade.

I have an old Mac that I use daily that maxed out at Mojave. It still
functions fine. Nobody forced me to do anything to it in the name of
capitalism.

You said yourself that his current machine meets his daily needs. So what's
the problem? It's not going to turn off the day Big Sur is released.

~~~
kup0
Apparently I should not have used the word _forced_ because some people went
full-boar pedantic about it unfortunately. It's forced in terms of "if I want
to run Big Sur, I have no choice" (thought that was obvious).

Not forced, but unnecessarily _required_ to purchase new hardware to run the
_latest_ OS version which should not have any reason for not working on the
older hardware. I still think that's a problem.

If there was a feature of Big Sur that required __particular __hardware to
run, then I would be more understanding. Yes, I can stay on Catalina on my
iMac, but it will continue to get more out of date when Apple could have
easily kept supporting it. I 'm understanding enough to know Apple has
business reasons for doing it, and maybe even technical ones (that no one has
yet explained) but it doesn't mean I agree with it.

~~~
valuearb
This is so silly. First, Apple’s history is that they will continue to support
older hardware with security updates even if they can’t support them with the
latest OS.

Sometimes older hardware isn’t capable of supporting new features. In prior
cases it might not have a 64 bit processor or not enough memory, and of course
you can’t expect support in those cases.

In this it’s old WiFi hardware that can’t support new features. It would be
dumb for Apple to take engineers off making Big Sur more solid for 98% of Macs
to waste time on this problem for a tiny percent of the active base.

Apple is doing exactly the right thing. Make it work well for the vast
majority, then see if they can take it farther back in the first couple of bug
fix releases.

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andy_ppp
I would love it if Apple allowed us to run Big Sur on the iPad, if I could use
one as a more real computer I definitely would. Probably would cannibalize a
lot of Mac sales though.

~~~
headmelted
Honestly I really wanted them to announce containers on iPadOS in a vein
similar to how ChromeOS does it.

Having them later in the presentation say "Hey look at all these ARM
containers running on Apple chips on macOS" was an especial kick in the teeth.

I used my potato-tier iPad with a Logic Folio as my main computer for a couple
of months while my MacBook was getting replaced and it was honestly a vastly
better experience for me save for not being able to get work done because of
the absence of spinning up a Linux workspace.

Even if they artificially limited it to iPad Pro (it's Apple after all) I'd
still be happy.

~~~
saagarjha
Current iPads just don’t have the hardware support to make this possible.
Hence why the DTK won’t support all the features mentioned in the keynote.
(It’s using the iPad chip.)

~~~
cassianoleal
What exactly is missing from an iPad that would allow this to happen?

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jorisw
A mouse pointer. macOS was designed for the mouse / trackpad.

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soylentcola
I had an iPad2 which I jailbroke and used with a bluetooth mouse back then
(mostly just because I could).

I can't imagine it's still impossible for them to add similar functionality if
it's the only thing holding it back from running macOS.

~~~
CDSlice
iPad OS does have mouse support actually. I'm really not sure why they haven't
made it possible to develop on iPads yet, I know I would get a 13 inch iPad
Pro in a heartbeat if I could develop on it and sideload apps onto it.

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211008](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT211008)

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saagarjha
It’s interesting that the installer package for the beta is just made
available with no authentication…

~~~
userbinator
Apple doesn't seem to care all that much, it's been like that for many years
now. "swscan.apple.com" is the search keyword to find all the things it offers
for downloading (including all versions of macOS since ~Lion or maybe a little
later...)

~~~
saagarjha
Oh, huh, I’ll have to look into that. I’ve often had the need to grab old
installers…

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threeseed
Those older Macs will just need a supported WiFi card e.g. Broadcom.

Hackintosh community deals with lack of driver support every day.

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hs86
We tagged along with the deprecations of the last years (32 bit, kernel
extensions, OpenGL), and right before the big payoff, our Macs fell out of
support. :)

Do people with unsupported macOS versions still need to modify each patch
release or can they update their macOS X.Y.Z to X.Y.(Z+1) without any
additional tinkering?

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gambiting
Ouch, I was hoping for support on my Late 2008 model, it runs absolutely fine
otherwise.

~~~
smilespray
Assuming you're not joking, which macOS version are you currently running?

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gambiting
Not joking at all, I still use it daily, works fine as a machine for browsing
the internet and watching youtube/netflix, with ocassional dev in terminal.
Replaced the HDD with an SSD years ago and it's still very brisk. It runs El
Capitan 10.11.6, which I don't have any issues with, but I am mildly concerned
about the lack of security updates for it.

~~~
blattimwind
I guess you upgraded the RAM to 8 GB? Because I don't see how the web is
usable on a machine with 2 GB of RAM...

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auiya
I'm running a 2011 MBA with way less than 8 GB RAM and the web is perfectly
usable. Why wouldn't it be?

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blattimwind
Sometimes I use a quad-core laptop with 2 GB of memory and no swap (because it
doesn't have enough disk space for a meaningful amount of swap) and five tabs
is practically a hard limit. Even with adblocking, news sites and sites like
imgur or reddit -- or really anything using heavy and fancy scripting or
animations -- demand to be the sole tab on the machine.

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sys_64738
Seems like Apple is intent to discourage rather than deter people from running
unsupported systems. Lack of wifi kills wanting to use Big Sur on unsupported
as that's a fundamental unit that is needed for laptop utility.

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DCKing
Seems like I'll need to upgrade the wifi card in my 2012 Macbook Air. As a
bonus I would get AC wifi, so it might be worthwhile in general. Good that
this is a possibility still in my hardware, and that these tools are made.

~~~
nsbk
Same here! and Apple Watch unlock, no password to unlock anymore :)

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Sangeppato
This is the main reason why I'm thinking about not getting a MBP as my next
laptop. Apple declares a laptop "vintage" after 5 years and doing so it
basically kills any possibility to get the machine repaired since they're not
user-serviceable at all. Furthermore they stop updating the OS just a bit
later and if you have a newer model with a T2 chip you won't even be able to
install Linux on it.

(To be fair though, I'm not sure I would pay for an expensive repair on a 5+
years machine anyway)

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ethagnawl
Apple is actively hostile towards its customers and having to resort to hacks
like this are one of the reasons I permanently moved to Linux about ten years
ago.

I had a black Macbook (dual-core, maxed out RAM, etc.), which I liked very
much and was plenty capable, and Apple decided (I don't have proof, but I'm
almost certain it was an instance of planned obsolescence) that Lion (I
think?) would not support it. I installed Ubuntu on that machine and it
continued to work well until the screen died a few years later.

~~~
Razengan
> _planned obsolescence_

Oh boy.

iOS 14 supports iPhone 6s. What’s the oldest phone supported by the latest
Android?

~~~
furbyhater
This discussion is about desktop OSes, not mobile.

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Hackbraten
After inspecting the patching tool, I made a Homebrew Cask for it in order to
have a basic integrity check for peace of mind.

To install the tool using Homebrew, run:

    
    
        brew cask install claui/cask-public/patch-installer
    

To patch the Big Sur installer, run:

    
    
        patch_installer.sh <drag the installer partition here>
    

After patching the Big Sur installer, you can uninstall the tool:

    
    
        brew cask uninstall patch-installer

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pacifika
Is this helper utility open source?

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Wowfunhappy
> Sidecar shows up in System Preferences on an iMac14,2 even though it is not
> supported and does not work. Does that happen on any other computers?

Yep, that happens on my 2015 Macbook Air, which officially supports Big Sur
but not Sidecar.

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op00to
Just download this random zip file and voila, you can run Big Sur and possibly
pwn your own computer!

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Everyone has their own comfort levels, and that's fine. However, dosdude1 and
parrotgeek have been doing this for many years, so I think they're pretty
trustworthy at this point.

~~~
saagarjha
Still would be nice if they posted source, though…

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Wowfunhappy
Check out the tools.zip, as far as I can tell it's just shell scripts and a
single library, "Hax.dylib". The source for the latter appears to be included
in the download.

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electriclove
Once you install Big Sur this way, will you get Big Sur updates from Apple
automatically?

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damniatx
yes, you will get new updates as usual.

~~~
electriclove
This is fantastic! I've got a 2012 Mac Mini (switched to SSD and upgraded RAM)
and it has been working extremely well. It is nice to know that I can get a
few more years out of it.

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dr_j_
Patched Catalina at least runs flawlessly on my mid 2010 MBP (7.1). (Note
also, upgraded to 16GB ram — officially unsupported — and 500GB SSD). The
machine absolutely flies. Using it for home recording and as my daily
development (C++ mostly) driver.

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copperx
How did you upgrade the RAM? Isn't it soldered?

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dr_j_
Thankfully not, I’m terrible with a soldering iron. 13 inch mid 2010 MBP,
model number 7.1, I think.

I heard the latest MBPs have soldered ram. Horrible and one of the reasons why
I’m not thinking of buying one (besides them being rather pricey!).

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auggierose
iMac Pro missing in that list?

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tonyedgecombe
The iMac Pro is officially supported.

