
Microsoft Edge preview builds are ready to try - thomaspark
https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/?form=MO12FY&OCID=MO12FY
======
Someone1234
Edge's "IE Mode" is depressing. We fit exactly into the problem space it aims
to solve (enterprise with a mix of both Java Applets and modern "internal" web
sites that could target current web-standards if not for the Java Applets
backlog).

The problem with "IE Mode" as implemented is that it only works for devices
connected to AD/fully managed. Our "internal" sites (both Java Applet and
modern) are externally accessible and via BYOD like a lot of enterprises
today. Employees work from home. Employees work remotely.

I can see why "website list" would be their preferred solution to routing, but
unfortunately it won't work for a lot of enterprises in 2019. We aren't using
internal sites like 2005 anymore, they're "internal" only in name and
function, they're very much externally accessible (even via VPN in some cases,
but you aren't managing the actual device).

~~~
derefr
In the enterprises I've worked in, BYOD devices are still fully managed.
Usually, you must enrol your device in enterprise MDM in order to connect to
the corporate VPN.

Presumably, this type of enterprise is the type Microsoft is targeting with IE
compatibility mode.

~~~
Someone1234
That seems pretty inflexible, and a potential invasion of employee's privacy.

I'm talking about employees being able to input their leave/overtime into an
externally facing "internal" web-portal, or looking up tickets/jobs.

Requiring that they allow full enterprise control of every device that would
access an internet facing website seems dragonian.

~~~
close04
BYOD gives you the freedom to pick whatever device you want and do the actual
work with it, not just enter working time and book vacation. But you're
connecting that device to the network and using it to access the most
sensitive parts of that network, the most delicate data.

Most users have little to no "tech hygiene" so allowing random devices
maintained by these users to connect will open your company to a world of
hurt.

For basic standard activities most companies offer locked down environments
like Citrix or externally facing portals that can be safely accessed form any
home computer. The alternative is to use a company issued device for work.

~~~
Someone1234
> But you're connecting that device to the network and using it to access the
> most sensitive parts of that network and the most delicate data.

That's not the usage I set out above at all. Not even ballpark.

I am talking about an externally accessible "internal" enterprise website, and
that IE Mode cannot be used well with it. I'm not sure how you got from
website to "access sensitive parts of the enterprise network." Employees are
BYOD to access the company's "internal" website from an external endpoint.
That's the topic. That's where IE Mode applies.

It reads like you and the sibling comment forgot what is even being discussed.
This is IE Mode for websites. Specifically for "internal" enterprise websites.
I am discussing the highly common practice of allowing access to "internal"
websites externally (inc. via privately owned employee's devices over the
internet).

~~~
mrkstu
At this point any such site that you want universally accessible should be
refactored into a true standards compatible website.

Trying to fix the problem on the browser side is the wrong answer, which is
what Microsoft is trying to nudge enterprises to by progressively making it
harder to use legacy dependent apps like that.

~~~
Someone1234
> At this point any such site that you want universally accessible should be
> refactored into a true standards compatible website.

That logic could be used to magic anyway any need for IE Mode for anyone. Why
even take part in this discussion if you dismiss the need for the very thing
we're discussing? Seems fruitless.

I honestly have no interest in discussing the merits of IE Mode conceptually.
I am talking about the implementation from the point of it existing on-wards.
You're welcome to find someone else to argue this with however.

------
outside1234
For what its worth, I have been running Edge Chromium for the last few months,
and when I first installed it I thought it would have a bunch of bugs that
forced me back to Chrome.

Nope. Its totally solid, and has completely supplanted Chrome on my Mac,
including for web development (it has the same Chrome development tools).

Highly recommended - sort of like the VSCode of browsers in my opinion.

~~~
k_
What makes it better than chrome or other browsers? Does it have some key
features that make it good appart from not being owned by google?

~~~
outside1234
No Google spyware is the key feature from my perspective, but I also feel like
the interface is cleaner as well.

~~~
kyriakos
Yes, Microsoft seems to be better at UI for sure but spyware its just replaced
with Microsoft's i guess.

~~~
rinchik
Ah stop it.

MS not even close to the decadent stuff that G is doing, insensitive, business
models, product users are also completely different.

~~~
robocat
But MS clearly _wants_ to be funded by advertising: obviously signalled by not
charging for Windows 10 upgrades, and the "telemetry" and tendency towards an
intrusive advertising model (e.g. "join Teams" popup on login in recent
update).

~~~
WorldMaker
I don't think Microsoft wants to be funded by advertising. They and Apple are
trying to run the exact same playbook of not charging for OS upgrades, and
instead focus on value added services on top (App Stores, Cloud Services,
etc).

Apple telemetry and intrusive advertising for their services is _so_ similar
on iOS on volume/scale/purpose to everything people are complaining about on
Windows 10, but I guess Apple gets a free pass because they are the "scrappy
underdog" that also had a larger market cap for a few recent years?

~~~
beatgammit
To be fair, Apple doesn't have as much of a reason to misuse your data as
Microsoft, and their main way to benefit off you is by selling you more
devices. Microsoft failed in the mobile department, so they mostly have
desktops, laptops, and high end tablets, but their money comes largely from
software running on those devices, and a lot of those services use personal
data.

So, Apple wants to make sure you have a good experience on their devices so
you'll buy more, Microsoft wants to know which of their products will fit your
usage.

To me, Microsoft's telemetry is more creepy than Apple's, but both pale in
comparison to Google's tracking. I choose to avoid all three companies'
products as much as possible because I don't like being tracked.

------
no_wizard
This is different from the Dev channel that they had opened up awhile back, in
case anyone else gets confused as I did for a few moments.

I really like it. In my opinion, its the best version of Chrom(ium) you can
get on Windows and Mac. Very snappy.

And they already have some neat developer tooling around it. There is a vscode
extension to do live reloads with with it, and see/manipulate the DOM and do
other debugging/measuring of your application.

Good work here!

------
dccoolgai
Just noticed this is not hosted a microsoft.com URL as I was about to
download. Is this thing above board? Any way to confirm that it's from
Microsoft even though it's not their origin?

~~~
redm
SSL Cert is valid and from "Issued by: Microsoft IT TLS CA 1"

------
hollerith
What I want to know is whether I will be able to run Ublock Origin on it after
Ublock Origin stops working on Google Chrome.

~~~
skrowl
Presumably when Chromium adds the change that destroys UBlock Origin, it will
be broken on all Chromium forks.

I don't see how it wouldn't, unless they added code back in on top of Chromium
to support the API they're removing.

~~~
zamadatix
That's what other forks have committed to doing already (and have done with
API changes in the past) so I don't see why you are skeptical Microsoft would
be able to.

~~~
gilrain
Indeed, of all the forks they're the most likely to have the resources to
maintain a fork which diverges that much.

------
breendeen
Preinstall and postinstall scripts for the Edge browser (macOS). Sudo-ing
telemetry data.

[https://github.com/sizeofcat/microsoft-edge-macos-
scripts/tr...](https://github.com/sizeofcat/microsoft-edge-macos-
scripts/tree/master/MicrosoftEdgeBeta-77.0.235.9)

~~~
flatiron
yeah why the heck do they need sudo for their send event command?

------
chappi42
"The attributes that you say matter most in your browsing experience are
performance, privacy, and reliability. So that is where we are starting."

Sounds good.

~~~
java-man
Does not inspire confidence, if we were to look at what Microsoft did to Skype
and all the mandatory telemetry they added in Windows 10.

~~~
gilrain
The difference is that they're a nobody in the browser space. Like Chrome did
at first, they have no choice but to legitimately be better until they win
market share. Then we'll see.

~~~
java-man
Not sure if I agree with this. They used to be a major player in the browser
area, remember IE?

The _somehow_ lost the market share, possibly because they focused on
something else instead of innovation and solving the problems of the users.

I think it is naive to expect them to suddenly change, especially given the
recent history of clearly going against user's interests in introducing
mandatory telemetry. Case in point: win10 _still_ overwrites user's default
application preferences and fonts pretty much on every update.

~~~
superturkey650
I believe the point the person you replied to was trying to make was that
while they add telemetry and have issues with the products where they dominate
the market, they try much harder to produce the best product when they are
underdogs.

With IE, they started being user-hostile and taking their users for granted
because they owned the market. The same thing they are currently doing with
Windows 10. They do this because they feel like they can.

However, in markets they are trying to win, they are much more user-friendly
and provide great products. You can see this in VS Code and the new Edge
(personal opinions). Though, I do agree that just because they are being
friendly now doesn't mean they won't do the same shit they did with IE once
they gain the market back.

This isn't about Microsoft or Google's culture or history, this is the fact
that any company that has little to no actual competition for a market will
abuse that fact and take their users for granted.

------
SanchoPanda
I am impressed with the options page and the site permissions page in
particular. I ws able to set most preferences as I wanted fairly quickly. I
was dissapointed that continue running background apps was enabled by default
however. It feels like it would be reasonable to wait until I tried to use
something that required it and only then bother asking me.

Edit: Whatever goodwill on settings was eaten up when change default search
provider was hidden two levels deep, first under "Privacy and Services" and
then under "Address Bar".

Edge team, you know full well most people will want to change this at first.
It should have its own settings top level page, more or less in line with
firefox.

------
dgellow
So, no more "Add Notes" feature? That's what made me use Edge as my main
browser on my personal machine. Being able to quickly save a page, add notes
by hand using a stylus, is just great.

~~~
WorldMaker
Hopefully it will come back. (It may be a ghost of its former self if it does,
because they announced the EPUB and PDF readers are definitely dead. Chrome
Edge will have Chromium's [arguably inferior] PDF support instead.)

It probably won't; Chrome Edge can't directly share so much OneNote code in
the same way, and so presumably the focus will move to "Share with
OneNote"/"Print to OneNote" instead.

In maybe better news, at least the "Collections" tools currently in
"Experimental Options" sound like they may, when fully baked, be improved
experiences over the venerable "Set Tabs Aside", maybe.

~~~
qwerty456127
> EPUB and PDF readers are definitely dead.

Wut? That's exactly what I use Edge for.

~~~
WorldMaker
Yeah, the Edge codebase change and its resultant loss of that UWP EPUB reader
was listed as one of the key factors in that much publicized case of Microsoft
entirely shutting down their Ebook store.

In early Windows 8 history the UWP PDF Reader (that went on to also be the
EPUB Reader) was available as a separate app in the Windows 8 Store just
called "Reader", before it merged into Edge. I wish they would spin it back
out into a new Reader app again, just to keep a useful extra option around for
PDF and EPUB files, but it sounds like the code shares too much with the
EdgeHTML Renderer they are entirely spinning down for them to do that, which
is a shame.

~~~
qwerty456127
I wouldn't mind a reader app to keep using the old Edge engine. It hardly
needs new web standards support anyway.

------
loudmax
The download page says "Investing in open source", but it also says "Not
supported for Linux". I'm going to take a guess that no other open source
operating systems are supported either, unless you count Android.

Maybe they have a Linux or FreeBSD version in the works. From what I'm seeing
right now, the new Microsoft supports open source, so long as you're on a
proprietary platform. Should I be surprised?

~~~
iamaelephant
Lots of people invest in open source without supporting or investing in Linux.
There's a whole universe of open source.

~~~
cameronbrown
That's true, but Microsoft is supposedly making a push into Linux and by
leaving it out you're cutting off a huge chunk of OSS enthusiasts.

------
rckclmbr
Excited for this, although I'm really hoping we get a linux release soon as
well.

~~~
0xDEEPFAC
Isn't it now based on webkit like Chrome, Safari, and Opera are? I don't
understand the hubub if their performance and features will be so identical.

~~~
nimrody
It's based on Chromium which uses Blink as its rendering engine, which was
forked off WebKit (which was derived from KDE's KHTML and now powers Apple's
Safari).

Opera is also based on Blink.

------
rinchik
Finally! a stable Chrome alternative that allows an average Chrome user to
switch away from Google without any loss of comfort! This is genius!

~~~
jackfoxy
I've been using whatever the current Edge browser is in Windows10 for several
years. (I don't know if that is current the "Chorme" Edge or not.)

But I am tired of 2 problems that never seem to get fixed and am contemplating
switching to Firefox because of this:

1) Bookmark (favorite) maintenance still sucks. As one example, try moving a
folder in the favorites bar from the bar to the ordered favorites list.

2) Edge advertises syncing (bookmarks, open tabs, etc.) across machines with
the same user signed-in, but I have never gotten this to work.

~~~
rinchik
> I don't know if that is current the "Chorme" Edge or not.

It's not. But hey! Good news! When this Beta will become stable Edge release,
all you issues will be solved!

~~~
WorldMaker
Not necessarily, in some ways the Chromium-based Favorites tools feel like a
regression from current Edge's, even accounting for how buggy it [production
Edge's favorites side panel] still sometimes feels.

Also, the synchronization engine is entirely different from both past Edge
_and_ Google's proprietary Chrome stuff, so all new places for all sorts of
new bugs.

Switching to Chromium won't be a magic fix for Edge's issues.

------
octosphere
Interesting that the download button says "Not supported for Linux" when
you're using Linux. But what if I want to try this out on Windows, but use
Linux to acquire the software? Sniffing the useragent and providing the
relevant message is annoying for users, because if they want the software,
they are going to find ways of acquiring it, regardless of the useragent sniff
in place.

Note: I downloaded the beta version, and within 10 minutes of using it, it
crashed. I reported the crash however so hopefully they can fix this

~~~
cbsks
If you click on "More platforms and channels" and then scroll down to "Other
Platforms", there are download links for Windows and macOS that work
regardless of your useragent.

------
Faark
Yeah, I don't like it. I opened both old edge and this side by side with only
this HN thread open. Scrolling on old feels way quicker... no white, un-
rendered areas as in the chrome version when quickly jumping through the
document. Memory usage went up 50ish percent (initially had committed a lot
more, but it seems to by now have freed that half gig it used earlier). "Read
aloud" TTS seems to read significantly slower on 2x speed than old edge (same
voice). All of this before adding adblock to beta, but I'd expect this only
makes it worse with nothing but HN open.

At least they kept some of the most garbage parts the same... like the addon
store not even having a search function. Apparently not even sort beyond
alphabetically. But that fits MS apparent mantra of dumbing down stuff so much
as to make more advanced use-cases near impossible. And doesn't seems to have
uBlock anyway, so who cares... I just hope I don't have to search a new
trustworthy one once current edge is gone :(

Yeah, still a long way off from what I'd wish for...

~~~
pedrocx486
>And doesn't seems to have uBlock anyway, so who cares...

You can install add-ons from the Chrome Web Store.

------
devoply
Only way to make people switch is to make it privacy oriented like Safari now
is... That would probably let Microsoft steal significant share away from
Google. Privacy oriented Chrome, standards compliant, developer oriented. Do a
180 from the IE days which Google is now mimicking.

~~~
opencl
The two biggest privacy-oriented browsers, Firefox and Safari, have ~10% and
~5% desktop market share[1]. It seems like the overwhelming majority of people
do not care very much.

[1] [https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/desktop/worl...](https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/desktop/worldwide)

~~~
devoply
They prefer the speed of Chrome. So give them that, with huge corporate
backing, and privacy features and you have a good chance at taking some stuff
away from Chrome.

~~~
nesadi
> They prefer the speed of Chrome.

Judging by my experiences as a PC technician, 99% of those people wouldn't
know if it's the browser that's slow or their PC or whatever crap adware
they've managed to install or whatever. Most people don't know and don't care.
Google has just leveraged their position as the dominant search engine to
ensure their browser is the default. I've installed Firefox on enough devices
to see that users just don't care - they'll use whatever is most convenient at
the time and then they'll stick to it because they know it and because of
habit. Hell, many people don't know what a browser even is, much less what the
differences are between them. It's just that "internet thing".

------
Rapzid
Does this meant that Chrome will be able to stream 1080p on the desktop in the
future, or will only Microsoft's build of chromium be able to do that?

*Stream 1080p with Netflix, Amazon, etc.

~~~
outside1234
Yes - all of those work in the canary I have been running for the last few
months.

------
wlesieutre
The macOS download link at the bottom directs me to
[https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/{macos-
link}](https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/{macos-link})

Is there somewhere else to find this?

EDIT - Use the "More platforms and channels" link under the big Windows
download button, then the dropdown menus on that page to get the Mac version.

~~~
dag11
[https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-
us/download/?platfor...](https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-
us/download/?platform=macos)

Seem to be working here.

------
skrowl
Who is the target market for this? Is this going to be the default browser in
the next feature update version of Windows 10?

~~~
WorldMaker
Current signs indicate that it is not for the _next_ feature update version
(19H2), but some later one. It's not even default in current Insider builds
(currently in the fast ring) for the following feature update 20H1 yet.

When it will become the Windows 10 default is an interesting open question
right now, and the exact roadmap doesn't seem entirely transparent yet. This
move to the Beta release channel seems to indicate possible confidence in it.

Windows 10 isn't the only target market though. Microsoft has made it clear
they want Windows 7 users, the odd minority of users still on Windows 8 and
Windows 8.1, and even macOS users for this new Edge. This "cross-platform
vision" was supposedly a key reason to rebuild on top of Chromium in the first
place.

(Interesting rumors even state that Microsoft is hoping to push it as the
"final" default browser for Windows 7 in a final security/feature update/mini-
service-pack roll up sometime before the April 2020 end of security date for
Windows 7 in a hope of leaving Windows 7 at the end of its ordinary security
support life and the start of its extended support phase in a better place
than Windows XP was left.)

------
s_y_n_t_a_x
How do you change the new tab page?

You can set which page to open on startup, but you can't seem to override the
page that shows when a new tab is created.

~~~
bla3
Do extensions from the chrome web store work? If so, there are many extensions
for swapping out the new tab page there.

~~~
filmgirlcw
Yes, they do. Just hit a toggle to "allow extensions from other stores" in the
Extensions settings and then you can install directly from the Chrome store
pages.

------
butz
Can we start waving goodbye to IE11?

~~~
ChrisSD
Use of IE11 is largely tied in to Enterprise applications. Whatever happens to
Edge it won't make IE11 die any sooner.

~~~
lousken
False - [https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/06/edge-
chromium...](https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/06/edge-chromium-
build-2019-pwa-ie-mode-devtools/) they're bringing IE mode to Edge Chromium

~~~
ChrisSD
Yes, that's still an IE11 window in an Edge skin. And that blog post
specifically calls out "seamless enterprise compatibility" as being the reason
for it.

~~~
lousken
Yes but it'll be left to sysadmins on which sites to enable this mode -
"Microsoft Edge uses your existing Enterprise Mode Site List to identify sites
which require IE rendering and simply switches to Internet Explorer mode
behind the scenes." So user can't just turn it on himself

------
PauloManrique
>Investing in open source

>No support for the biggest open source OS.

The irony is stunning.

------
agdpf
Does this have a level of telemetry comparable to that of Google Chrome? I've
been looking for a Chromium-based alternative to Chrome and I'm still waiting.
Vivaldi looks like it, but it's still a bit too rough around the edges to be
used as a daily browser.

~~~
jjuel
What about Brave?

~~~
agdpf
I support Eich, but I don't like the idea of Brave. I want a neutral browser.
Brave is not neutral, since it comes bundled with software that blocks ads and
some crypto crap. I want to block ads, but I want to do it my way and to be in
control.

~~~
BrendanEich
You can lower shields with a global setting, not just per site.

Brave Rewards are off by default and you can hide the icon.

HTH

------
agdpf
I don't like that the start page is so "Microsofty"\--it contains MSN News and
you can't disable Bing.

~~~
sahaskatta
I was able to change the search engine to Google or DuckDuckGo in a few clicks
in the settings page.

~~~
agdpf
Me too but it only seems to affect the address bar. The "new tab page" search
bar still defaults to Bing.

~~~
rishav_sharan
@agdpf, I work in the Edge team and have passed this feedback to the relevant
team.

In case you have any other feedback, I would encourage you to also use the
smiley icon on the top right of the browser to directly them to us.

