
At ‘Hacker Hostels,’ Living on the Cheap and Dreaming of Digital Glory - gshakir
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/technology/at-hacker-hostels-living-on-the-cheap-and-dreaming-of-digital-glory.html?pagewanted=all
======
qiqing
I'd like to set the record straight about the nature of Chez JJ, which I feel,
was very strongly misrepresented in the NYT article. What sets Chez JJ (and
other community houses) apart from hostels and dorms is our family-like
atmosphere. By welcoming guests into our home we are welcoming them into our
family. They have become our friends and our co-founders. Startup life is an
emotional roller coaster. As a community, we support each other through the
trials and tests of life in Silicon Valley.

More than half of Chez JJ residents who have applied to YC have been accepted.
Maybe it helps that we grill each other. Or maybe it helps that we help each
other relax in order to see the big picture. Or because our residents don't
have to waste as much time on the minutiae of living because of what we
provide. Maybe it's a form of self selection. It is a relevant point that
living in group communities is more cost effective than living alone. When we
all pitch in towards basic needs we are able to have a higher standard of
living.

We have weekly professional cleaners and subscribe to Farm Fresh, an organic
vegetable delivery service. We provide coffee, tea, pancake mix, cereal,
soymilk, and all the fresh fruits and vegetables you can find in our garden.
We have regular dinner parties, and breakfast brunches. We have movie nights
and hackathons and play board games. And we work closely with the owners of
each of our houses know exactly what we are doing and are completely
supportive.

<http://chezjj.com>

~~~
lizluna
I agree that Chez JJ was highly misrepresented. To compare to college dorms is
superficial, it completely lacked the real essence of what makes the boarding
at Chez JJ really special, the family-like atmosphere that creates emotional
support for everyone in the hacking industry, and a great atmosphere to bounce
ideas off each other. I felt that the article was written to laugh at people
and their sub-par living conditions and start-up failures. It sorely
diminishes the hard work and achievements that are continuously produced
through the residence and the genuine care that is put in by the captains. It
made Sasha sound like a callus bitch and the boarding sound filthy. Makes you
feel that journalism cannot be trusted. LL

Keyword: New York Times, Crammed Into Cheap Bunks, Dreaming of Future Digital
Glory

~~~
faruqhunter
I think the article was a great introduction. This is coming from someone who
knows nothing about it but we run similar programs in Atlanta (tasteless plug
- www.juniorengineer.us). These things are not well understood by the
mainstream. The culture needed to create stellar developers and awesome
startupx and products is a conundrum to some and is only recently being
analyzed because of the success of accelerators like Y-combinator and Tech
stars. People who are unfamiliar with these concepts need points of reference
so don't beat them up too bad

Faruq Hunter

~~~
qiqing
The problem with the misrepresentation in the article is that unlike other
hacker houses, Chez JJ is pretty damn close to spotlessly clean. It's why we
pay professionals to do it. And one of our houses was actually 50% female.

It's hard to make people envision something else, once the words are out
there, but we really aim to make life as frictionless as possible for our
guests.

------
kintamanimatt
I admire these people who are willing to live in a 10-person dorm room while
setting up their business, but the fact three "Hacker Hostels" have sprung up
feels like a symptom of SF & SV being so over-hyped and incorrectly positioned
as the only place innovation will occur with less friction. Am I wrong or just
missing something?

What real significant tangible benefit are these people getting that compels
them to live like this and pay a relatively high cost for the privilege?
$1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment in
NYC, Boston, or just about anywhere else.

~~~
runako
I agree with your larger point 100%.

>> $1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment
in NYC, Boston

In much of the US, $1,200/mo will buy you a house (or rent one). $1,200/mo is
a fairly high rent for a 1-bedroom in much of the US; a private room in a
shared apartment would obviously be correspondingly less.

~~~
stephencanon
$1,200/month goes a long way in the bay area, too, if you have any idea what
you're doing at all.

As a graduate student at Berkeley, I had my own room in an apartment with a
roof deck and uninterrupted bay view for $400/mo on a month-to-month lease in
a great neighborhood. This was 6 years ago, but the same guy was still
subletting the same rooms for the same price, when last I spoke to him.

When I moved to the peninsula to work at Apple, I had a small house with a
yard and fruit trees in the nice part of Menlo Park on a month-to-month lease
for $1000/mo. This was 4 years ago, but similar deals can definitely still be
found (the same house was rented for $1300/mo recently).

Up to a year ago, my wife and I shared a lovely house with 1.5 acres in Palo
Alto for $1800/mo, though we did need to sign a lease for that one.

When I travel back to the bay area now, I get an airbnb-type room in Palo
Alto, and don't typically pay more than $800/mo short-term. A lot of things
are listed at higher rates, but you can often negotiate pretty successfully.
It certainly doesn't hurt to ask.

The ridiculous rents that you hear about in the bay area are partially due to
a genuine real estate crunch, but they are largely also due to people having
too much money and not enough sense. Paying $1200/mo for a dorm is nuts, no
matter what city it's in.

~~~
hkmurakami
Absolutely. My friend was living in a studio on Hamilton Street in downtown
Palo Alto for $1000/mo earlier this year. Additionally there are places in
Sunnyvale that you can rent for a good deal which will let you shell out the
$100/mo for access to Hacker Dojo which would only be a 15 minute drive away.

Having lived in SV all my life, these "Hacker Hostels" just seem like a way
for the operators to exploit those who flock to their services, who just don't
know any better.

------
kiwidrew
When are people going to learn that PayPal is never, ever, _ever_ to be
trusted?

 _> When the site started in May, $12,000 in orders for a car diagnostics
device poured in right away. PayPal, which the founders used to process
payments, decided their account was “high risk” and suspended it, freezing
their money for six months, Mr. Wu said. Mr. Wu and Mr. El-Hage maxed out
their credit cards to fulfill the orders. Without investors backing them, they
nearly went broke. MassDrop has recovered to “above-ramen status, but not that
much higher,” Mr. El-Hage said._

~~~
rytis
What are my options if I'm not in US? GoCardless is great but not
instantaneous afaik. Paypal is so easy from the user perspective (and has low
upfront cost for the developer) that most just accept the risk. But they are
evil, very evil.

~~~
j45
I've found Paypal to be much better if you:

1) Call them and get to know them

2) Let them know what you're selling up front

3) Verify all your info -- connect a bank account to it, connect a credit card
to it

4) before a launch, marketing blitz, or push, call and let them know.

Why? They're not a bank, but they're like a bank. They have to manage risk.
Keep them in the loop and your account has a much, much better chance of not
being locked down.

~~~
kokey
It's possible to call Paypal and talk to them?

~~~
j45
Yes, it used to be next to impossible but they prominently display their
number now, and I have yet to speak to anyone incompetent. It's almost like
the missing limb of Paypal all these years. Super knowledgeable people who
have been working behind the scenes that I haven't had access to.

I'm not saying Paypal (or any payment service) by any means is perfect or
ideal. I just know my interaction with Paypal increased after I could access
them by phone.

There is a certain peace in saying "I told you my entire business model before
I started and you cleared it as a good fit with Paypal" and documenting it
politely.

You'd be shocked how much a heads up of "I'm about to launch or might have a
crush of traffic from x" does for their risk management department.

It doesn't mean we should notify them of every business decision through them,
but it's kind of like building credit, in the beginning it will take a bit
more effort on your part to go out of your way to do the right thing.

Otherwise, we're just a random unverified account with zero history with them.
If they get to know you, like anything, things get easier. Scammers wouldn't
want Paypal to get to know them, right? :)

------
AVTizzle
I like how the term "hacker" is finally starting to be recognized in the
mainstream press for a definition other than the criminal one:

"Hackers — the Mark Zuckerberg variety, not the identity thieves — have long
crammed into odd or tiny spaces and worked together to solve problems. In the
1960s, researchers at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory slept in
the attic and, while waiting for their turn on the shared mainframe computer,
sweated in the basement sauna."

~~~
stefantalpalaru
Unfortunately, it's still the wrong definition. Ideally, journalists shouldn't
feel obliged to make any distinction.

~~~
throwaway1979
Heh ... I had to read the "Hacker" sentence thrice before I got it.

------
majormajor
$40/night? I don't personally know anyone in Menlo Park, but know people with
places to themselves in/very near SF for $1200/month. Even with rent going up
lately, $1200/month for not even a private bedroom?

~~~
gojomo
At that rate, you're also paying for the lack of a long-term lease commitment,
the location, and the amenities (in this case food, furnishings, and peers).
Compared to hotels in these same area -- where you also pay for short-term
convenience, furnishings, and immediacy of location/amenities -- it's still
fairly cheap.

~~~
calbear81
I'm not sure how $1,200 to sleep with 4 other people in a bedroom is
considered fairly cheap when you compare the same rate at a hotel.

$100/night, divided by 4, is $25/night per person in a decent hotel with a
negotiated long term rate. Of course, you don't get the intangibles of being
in a "hacker house" 24/7 and live out the dream.

------
cmwelsh
$1200/month might be a good price for rent in San Francisco but you can
bootstrap your startup at half the cost if you look around on Craigslist. It
also helps to live somewhere other than one of the most expensive cities in
the United States.

------
melvinmt
You have to love these bootstrap covers where they display $2,499+ MacBooks in
the most impoverished settings.

~~~
yen223
The $2,499 MacBooks can potentially earn money, a nice bed does not.

~~~
paulgb
I think you're seriously underestimating the productivity impact of rest. I'll
take a good night's sleep over a retina display any time.

~~~
gwern
Just one night's sleep?

------
deepakg
"Hackers — the Mark Zuckerberg variety, not the identity thieves " being
tongue and cheek are we :)?

~~~
kintamanimatt
I think this is a great line actually. The media is largely responsible for
corrupting the original meaning of the word. At least they're now showing
people it has multiple meanings, and that hacker doesn't always mean
"malicious cracker".

~~~
deepakg
I just found it ironical given Facebook's privacy record. Identity thieves and
Mark Zuckerberg in the same sentence.

------
pitt1980
kind of interesting to think about this through the context of all the free
online classes being offered. Its seems like what people say is, 'well you
miss out on interacting with all the other Harvard students'

not sure how welcoming these houses are to those without the right formal
educational credentials

"The captains, all women, screen for personalities and occupations, rejecting
applicants who are not techies or simply have a poor attitude. Sasha Willins,
a 26-year-old graphic designer who is captain of the San Francisco apartment,
has a gentle way of saying no. “It’s not so much rejecting as it is asking so
many questions until they withdraw their application,” she said."

but it seems like being in the right 'hacker house', could replicate the
advantages of getting to interact with Harvard students for a modest housing
upcharge

seems slightly more cost effective than cutting Harvard a 50K check

------
flavien_bessede
Pretty much the same concept as what StartupHouse is in SF.
(<http://startuphouse.com>)

~~~
thegreattiny
Similar, but much smaller and more familial. And way less under construction.

------
unwiredben
Isn't this just another name for a college dorm, but without the whole college
classes and graduation and degree thing?

~~~
jocelynscrayons
Not at all. We do get some grad students, but most or school drop-outs
starting their own businesses. It is not a dorm, nor is it a hostel. Our
guests have become my community; my family. We eat together, discuss politics,
challenge each others ideas, and support each others endeavors. All this, with
breakfast, fresh produce and California weather. It's personal, not a
collegiate scam.

~~~
tenaciousV
My stay there was a wonderful experience and the place was nice. I get
energize by having people around working towards the same goal and that is
very valuable to me.

------
ramblerman
"for aspiring tech entrepreneurs on the bottom rung of the Silicon Valley
ladder, those who haven’t yet achieved Facebook-level riches"

I know this is written as good spirited humour, or at least I hope so. But
measuring success against zuckerberg's assets is an unhealthy preoocupation.

It's very typical of the "Get rich and retire by 30" crowd, for whom running a
business is the byproduct of making money

~~~
jocelynscrayons
Agreed.

------
fitandfunction
Not bad, but surprised it's not cheaper. Airbnb shows numerous places with
bedroom for let in the $40 - $60 / night range.

~~~
rdl
For "hacker short-term bedroom rentals", I wonder how much of a premium the
market puts on transit access (or being in downtown PA/MV).

I've been looking in Menlo Park (North Fair Oaks), and assuming buying a 2/1
with 1/1 detached studio could get $50/night or so for the 1/1, if set up
properly. But NFO doesn't have great transit.

~~~
fitandfunction
To be clear, I think the price ($40 / night) is a decent. Cheap enough for
most, particularly given the flexibility. Enough money for the landlord (my
guess is they can easily pull in $5 - $8 k / mo) to provide decent services. I
would like to see more competition ... e.g. include use of laundry, breakfast,
etc.

------
tryitnow
This is a great idea. I think there's a big opportunity for community based
housing in general.

I tried living in such a community, but it was in the co-housing tradition and
required collective participation in chores. Ummm, no thanks.

But the idea of a bunch of people with shared interests and at similar life
stages living in the same place - it's just awesome. So much can get done when
people with similar goals and diverse talents just "rub shoulders" on a daily
business.

Kismet is the source of much human greatness and a community based on shared
interest of passionate, talented people is like a little kismet factory.

I bet some clever people could create a social app that would facilitate the
creation and maintenance of such mini-communities.

------
sgornick
Opening soon ... <http://20Mission.com>

A hacker hostel for Bitcoin startups. 41 rooms. Discount, of course, if paying
rent using bitcoins.

"Bitcoin's Hogwart's"

------
bjnortier_hn
Is this not too insular?

I get & agree with some of the arguments in favour of surrounding yourself
with other innovators. In the same way that the Pixar building is designed to
foster these interactions.

But if you surround yourself with hackers all the time, there is the risk of
losing track of the problems outside your circle. You need to talk to your
customers. In the same way that people who work at Pixar go home to their kids
and discover what their customers want.

~~~
thegreattiny
Each Chez JJ captain screens for the best mix at the house, and none of us are
developers by trade. We are designers, scientists, teachers, and
entrepreneurs. Each of us has many ties within the tech industry and also
without, and we sometimes purposefully accept non-technical residents for
balance.

We really do care about creating an atmosphere which facilitates growth and
innovation best, and we've put a lot of thought into the community we're
helping to build.

------
NonEUCitizen
Photo looks like a Foxconn dorm!

~~~
jocelynscrayons
heh, that is from the first day we started, it actually looks more homey now.
The photos in the NYT article are more appropriate.

------
sequoia
@qiqing: Are you willing to tell us a bit about the screening process? I'm
curious about what worked, what didn't, what traits you learned to avoid etc..

~~~
qiqing
It's mostly about cultural fit, which is more of an intuitive process for me.
I wasn't selecting based on how well they pitched their companies but in their
messages, if they seem like the kind of people I would prefer to live with.
That is, if they're nerdy enough to enjoy watching Star Trek or Firefly with
us, and conscientious enough (and enough of a team player) to clean up their
own dishes. And weren't too "normal." Extra points for being excited about
math and science, especially if it's not related to their current enterprise.

People who try to be pushy via Airbnb messages, or are interested in only
price (and not the hacker community) are generally not accepted. (Funny how
it's MBAs and nontechnical people who see the least value in being part of a
hacker community.) Also, people who aren't conscientious while they're with us
have a lower probability of being accepted back, but fortunately, those are
few and far between.

------
minikomi
See also "geekhouse" in Japan... A little less tidy though.

------
wilfra
Does anybody know of a good site to find roommates/room for rent with other
tech-minded people?

If there isn't one, somebody should make it! Would be cool to live in a house
with 3,4,5 others all working on startups - but how to find them if you don't
all work in the same place?

~~~
jocelynscrayons
You can find us at ChezJJ.com. There are links to our AirBnb profiles there.
Also there are community houses throughout the bay area. We have a few current
guests who are looking for roommates, so maybe you can send me a private
message with your e-mail and I can forward it along?

~~~
wilfra
Cool thanks. You guys might consider putting some type of forum or something
on your site, people could post looking for people.

Bunk beds sounds like a little much for me personally but it would be cool to
rent my own room in a house filled with the kind of people coming through your
place.

~~~
jocelynscrayons
great idea. That just might happen.

