
A Very Long, Super-Nerdy NBA Podcast Is Making Money - pmcpinto
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-11-10/even-this-very-long-super-nerdy-nba-podcast-is-making-money
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csallen
It's difficult to find out how much money podcasts make, so here are some data
points about my podcast, which I started in February of this year.

I released 5 episodes of the newly-created Indie Hackers podcast[0] in March
and made about $1000 from sponsors. That's one sponsor per episode at ~$200
each.

Today new episodes get over 20k downloads within their first week, but back
then each episode got about 2-3k downloads, tops.

One could make the argument that a business/tech podcast like Indie Hackers
can land more lucrative advertisers than a basketball-focused podcast. But on
the flip side, I was also completely new to selling sponsorships, editing and
promoting the show, etc., and the podcast was just one of many things I was
doing on my own.

Regardless, if they're doing multiple episodes per week, each receiving 50k
downloads at minimum, and each with multiple sponsors, I'd guess they're
making a much more comfortable living than their Patreon numbers suggest.

[0]
[https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast](https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast)

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jm547ster
Any chance of this going up on Spotify? Apple doesn’t seem to want me to get
via iTunes Store, infinite loop of asking for TouchID

~~~
djuralfc
It happened to me too, restarting the phone helped.

~~~
jm547ster
Thanks, no such luck here unfortunately, direct podcast link worked however,
for anyone in the same boat: [https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/indie-
hackers-podcast-ho...](https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/indie-hackers-
podcast-how-developers-are-
bootstrapping/id1206165808?mt=2https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/indie-
hackers-podcast-how-developers-are-bootstrapping/id1206165808?mt=2)

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southphillyman
Never listened to these guys but what's described sounds like your typical NBA
podcast nowadays. NBA discussion on message boards and forums has changed a
lot in recent years with fans being very knowledgeable about the salary cap,
trade provisions, and other general management intricacies. in fact there is a
derogatory term for fans who don't know about the nuances of the CBA or how to
calculate effective field goal percentage...we call them "casuals". The NBA
has done a good job developing an intelligent involved fan base which remains
engaged even when games aren't being played

~~~
baldfat
That it is MUCH easier to follow NBA than Baseball and Football due to sheer
numbers of people is also a big plus. You actually can easily know every
regular player (Usually 10 players or less) very quickly. It is also very easy
to understand the impact of different players subing in and out.

Basketball is the most played sport in the world for the past 20+ years
(Arguably) and I think in 30 years NBA will be the second biggest sport in the
US and it already is 2nd in the world.

~~~
teej
There’s simply no way that a sport that requires a court and a hoop is going
to beat Soccer as the most played sport in the world.

~~~
kasey_junk
Soccer definitely has the breadth of places played locked down. Nothing is
likely to overtake that any time soon.

But basketball has a surprising advantage in potential players in that China
is mad about basketball. The last time I was there the enthusiasm I saw for
the sport, especially with young players rivaled anything I’ve seen outside of
my own basketball obsessed childhood home of Indiana.

Which leads to another conclusion. If I were betting the most popular sport
globally I’d probably bet on Ping Pong, just based on Chinese school children
participation.

~~~
BoiledCabbage
> Soccer definitely has the breadth of places played locked down. Nothing is
> likely to overtake that any time soon.

> But basketball has a surprising advantage in potential players in that China
> is mad about basketball. The last time I was there the enthusiasm I saw for
> the sport, especially with young players rivaled anything I’ve seen outside
> of my own basketball obsessed childhood home of Indiana.

> Which leads to another conclusion. If I were betting the most popular sport
> globally I’d probably bet on Ping Pong, just based on Chinese school
> children participation.

Basketball flat out isn't. Every single adult male in China could play it and
it still wouldn't be the most popular sport in the world.

~~~
kasey_junk
Your suggesting that there is a sport out there right now that more than 10%
of the global population plays?

Cause Soccer certainly isn’t played at that scale.

~~~
querulous
currently plays obv you're right, but played ever? i bet it's over 10%. youth
soccer participation is over 50% in most of europe and north america and while
it's hard to find statistics for africa and south america for organized play
for casual play i would be shocked if it was lower than the organized play
rate for north america

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kenjackson
As a hoops nerd this is one of my favorite podcasts. I think people
underestimate how much demand there is for just good discussion. And since you
don't need high production, you can just crack out out near daily.

~~~
ajwp904
I listen to this podcast almost every day. These guys are great at breaking
down why certain trades/contracts are a good value or (most of the time) not.
They've also given me a more critical eye when I watch basketball games for
what makes certain players good at what they do and why certain players are
playing poorly. I'd say Dunc'd On and Lowe Post are my two favorite podcasts
for following the NBA these days.

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SapphireSun
I'll be very disappointed when podcasting becomes fully metricised. The large
scale introduction of advertising will be toxic and do to this beautiful indie
space what has happened to the web.

~~~
eropple
Would you rather the people who make quality podcasts have to spend the not-
inconsiderate amount of time researching, rehearsing, performing, and editing
alongside a full-time job? Would you rather they do that instead of _making it
a better thing_?

Podcast advertising has been around for a decade and somehow, just _somehow_ ,
it has not been as "toxic" as you imply.

~~~
SapphireSun
It really depends. The problem is that once advertising become the primary
drip of financial resources, the content begins to revolve around the needs,
goals, and preferences of advertisers. Content that isn't seen as monetizable
gets shown the door. Content that rails against consensus opinion or is anti-
corporate gets shut down. Things that earn money get promoted at the expense
of all else.

You can see this lucidly in the case of Bill O'Reilly. People had already
known his deal for over a decade, but it wasn't until his ad dollars were
pulled (after a public pressure campaign) that he was dethroned. That's an
example of the kind of media system that is fostered by advertisement.

EDIT: changed 'decades' to 'over a decade'.
[https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/a-timeline-
of...](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/a-timeline-of-bill-
oreillys-vileness-w477663)

~~~
wils1245
Hasn't advertising always been the primary drip of financial resources for
podcasts? Aside from a bit more enthusiasm for Casper mattresses than is
probably warranted, I don't think your concerns have come to pass.

The great thing that podcasts have going for them as a product is they're
super cheap to make (relatively speaking). Podcasters willing to compromise
the product by taking on more obtrusive advertising will get outcompeted by
those who don't. It's ideally how media sites in general would work, but those
are expensive enough to run that most sites resort to intrusive ads.

~~~
SapphireSun
I think the point is that it hasn't happened... yet. In theory, writing for
newspapers shouldn't be expensive either, yet somehow it is.

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Touche
What's surprising about this is that people find it surprising. I'm surprised
that so few podcasts have figured out the formula is: pick a subject and talk
about that subject. It's really not hard!

So many people in the media seem to feel that what people want is interviews.
Bill Simmons is a great example, he has very good podcasts when he just sits
around and talks to his friends/coworkers about sports (or pop culture or
whatever). But he seems to want to be a talk show host and do interviews...
and _very_ few people can do interviews well. And even fewer people make a
good interview.

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yalogin
This is a great podcast. There are many people that don’t care about all the
theatrics in a show. They just tolerate it. Podcasts like dunc’d on just go
straight to the point. This started with Bill Simmons’ grant land which had
very lengthy detailed articles with analysis that never got done before. It
was a huge success. Nate Duncan just continues that. I believe a sports fan
invariably will gravitate towards a nerdy analysis given time, no mater what
the sport is.

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elorant
Is there any way to verify that downloads of any given podcast aren't just
bots?

~~~
eropple
Not really. The various podcast hosting services provide analytics that you
hope are providing anti-bot measures.

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dogruck
As an avid podcast listener, and a recent attendee to the podcast festival in
LA, I think this article has several flaws.

1\. It never mentions gambling or fantasy sports, which makes me suspect it’s
a native ad for the NBA. I bet that a good percentage of the 745 Patreons are
really into gambling on the NBA, in some form — how could the article not
mention that!?
[https://www.patreon.com/DuncanLeroux](https://www.patreon.com/DuncanLeroux)

2\. It starts off with some headline listener stats (e.g. “hundreds of
thousands of listeners”) and later admits the hard truth that listener stats
are not reliable. You only know if people have downloaded a podcast — not if
they listened.

3\. It perpetuates the myth that Serial is the most successful podcast. I also
used to believe that, until I learned otherwise at the LA Podcast Festival.

4\. It mentions, but doesn’t properly emphasize, that the $7 Patreons get to
download a spreadsheet (which, again, they probably use for gambling). So,
really, these guys are both podcasters and _data providers_. The podcast is
how they market their data service.

5\. It classifies them as a financial success, without saying how much they
make. We know they get about $5,400 per month from Patreon (split 2 ways). I’m
not sure how much they earn from Blue Apron, etc. I know $2,700/month doesn’t
go too far in San Francisco. Also, they don’t divide $2,700 by the number of
hours they spend watching NBA games, compiling their data spreadsheet, and
producing the podcast.

6\. Gives the obligatory main stream media reference to Gimlet Media, calling
it “successful.” Does Gimlet make money? How much? How much does Gimlet pay
its employees?

7\. The headline is unnecessarily snarky, implying that podcast listeners are
looking for vanilla, short, mainstream content. In reality, niches are the
biggest areas for opportunity in podcasting. The headline should not start
with “Even This...”

~~~
lghh
Now I realize that I'm not necessarily the norm, but I'm a long time listener
and subscriber to this podcast and a Patreon donor and I don't gamble. I just
really like basketball and really like their content.

Also, Danny writes for a few different places pretty regularly and has a book
out, so I'm sure he's doing okay from that. He's also the host of a RealGM
podcast. Nate is the actual host of the podcast and not every single episode
includes Danny (though 95% do) so there's a chance it's not an even split.

~~~
ccorda
I can’t recall the pod ever talking about gambling lines, or fantasy value.

Not to say listeners don’t use the info for those purposes, but it’s not a
value proposition they even hint at IMO.

~~~
lghh
And covering games after they happen really doesn't help at all for fantasy. I
just think the top comment is making assumptions without understanding the
landscape.

