
Jupyter: “take the domain name down immediately” - williamstein
http://sagemath.blogspot.com/2016/07/jupyter-take-domain-name-down.html
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tptacek
I don't know from the legalities of the situation, and it sounds like they
don't matter to the author either, and they're just going to comply out of
good-will.

But I will say that as a (very) casual user of Sage and someone with a passing
knowledge of the Jupyter branding change: SageMathCloud having an alias of
"JupyterCloud" is an instance where the name usage would be _super ultra
confusing to me_. It would make me think SageMathCloud, a project I was
already aware of (but not a user of), was the official cloud backend for
Jupyter, and was just slow on the rename.

~~~
williamstein
Many thanks for your feedback, which is exactly the sort of additional
perspective I'm hoping for. I definitely don't want to confuse users, and I
really appreciate your pointing this out. Yes, not a legal question: I will
bend over backwords out of good will... but I'm not even sure what I'm asking
for, which is why your feedback is so helpful.

~~~
tptacek
Just to be as fair as I can: I also find the new "Jupyter" branding to itself
be _super ultra confusing_. :)

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sitkack
This, anything with the word Jupyter in it causes confusion. Because
homophones are cute, and supporting Ju(lia) Py(thon) and Ter makes sense, when
the word IPython is too disclusive.

~~~
carreau
Technically there is also a (legal) issue with the IPython __name __and the
proximity with `Python` __trademark __, where the IPython team have an
exceptional authorisation, under continuous approval to use the __name __under
some restrictive conditions, like for example non-commercial use.

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hdra
No idea on legality, but personally, I find the whole naming around IPython
notebook/ Jupyter notebook/Jupyterlab itself to be confusing enough, and if
you were to have an official looking domain like JupyterCloud to redirect to a
product called SageMathCloud, I'll just ended up thinking of SageMathCloud as
the hosted commercial product of Jupyter, so yeah, it is confusing (and also I
find it to be not a very nice/honest thing to do).

p.s. Unless you're BuzzFeed, clickbait title that looked like it is looking to
stir up drama is just gonna make you look less trustworthy (which is a shame,
since the article itself is about a pretty important topic and very much
deserves a discussion).

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jordigh
Since this does seem to be a causing confusion, which is precisely the kind of
confusion trademark law is supposed to prevent, it seems like changing the
name is the right thing to do.

Would Jupyter also object to jupyter.sagemath.com? I mean, that seems to more
clearly say that it's jupyter instances associated to sagemath.

~~~
williamstein
jupyter.sagemath.com -- that's a really good idea. Thanks for pointing it out.

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shaftway
The title here was super clickbaity. The actual quote was "...we ask that you
take the domain name down immediately, as it uses the Jupyter name"

~~~
carreau
William is looking to be hired by buzzfeed I guess. “take the domain name down
immediately, and see what's happen after...”

~~~
williamstein
You're right. I'm sorry the title sounded like linkbait, but it was the best I
could think of to convey the topic, which was permission for use of a domain
name with Jupyter in it.

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carbocation
Trademarks must be defended or they risk being lost. It seems to me (a legal
layperson) that this is not only a reasonable action, but also, unfortunately,
a necessary one.

~~~
ubernostrum
Too many people use this as an excuse for enforcement behaviors that go well
beyond what's necessary to maintain a trademark. It's possible, for example,
to begin the conversation politely, offer to work together to find a way to
properly license the mark for use, etc. without resorting to harsh-sounding
demands. But nobody does this, and nobody who uses harsh demands (or threats,
or other extreme tactics) ever faces any consequences because someone on the
internet will defend them with a "well, trademark law required that, you
know".

~~~
pyre
Here's a good example of C&D letter that isn't written with going on the "all
out offensive" in mind:
[https://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/...](https://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/jd-
letter-entire-big1.jpg)

~~~
jasongrout
Thanks. I really like that letter!

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ww520
Since Jupyter notebook is one type of things among others used in
SageMathCloud, it's prudent to put it under the SageMath brand. You do want to
build up the SageMath brand. Just put it under cloud.sagemath.com/jupyter.

~~~
williamstein
Several people have now suggested exactly this to me too. I'll clarify my
question to the Jupyter Steering Committee and also ask about use of Jupyter
in a subdomain or page like cloud.sagemath.com/jupyter.

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RogierBrussee
Frankly I think the name Jupytercloud is much, much better than sagemathcloud.
The reason is that anything containing the word 'math' instantly kills 99.9%
of your targetgroup. I have been a mathematician for half of my professional
life and I share a a love for all things mathematics, but in the second half
of my professional life I have learned (the hard way) that 99.9% of people
instantly shut off as soon as math is brought up. Sadly this is even true for
most engineers and scientists. Anything called mathcloud is instant negative
marketing, especially as doing a google search quickly turns up, talk about
L-functions, number theory and commutative algebra. All of these capabilities
you are rightly proud of, but which for most anybody outside of academic math
departments it is a clear sign that sage/sagemathcloud is "not for me". This
includes mathematics teachers, who, however, seem to like geogebra, a system
with much more limited capabilities, but sufficient for elementary algebra,
plotting functions and elementary geometry. One of its strength is that it can
used in a (chrome) browser.

On the other hand there is a much larger group (if only non-math students) for
which a "google docs/github" for shared, zero-install, browser based
python/R/Ruby programming, data-analysis, plotting, statistics, technical-
scientific writing /Numpy numerical and yes, Sage symbolic computation
environment is a great proposition. Of course this is exactly what
SageMathcloud is offering. However, if I may exaggerate a bit, SageMathcloud
is now positioned as a cloud system to support mathematicians that can also do
things like plotting and statistics, because it is really handy for doing
statistics of the zero's of the zeta function. Completely understandable from
where you come from, but a marketing disaster. A name like Jupyther cloud that
reflects such a "neutral" programming/technical/statistical/data position
would be a great boon.

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pthreads
Why do you have to redirect jupytercloud to sagemathcloud? I feel that is what
they are objecting to primarily. Create your web site with your own content
for your domain and somewhere there, if needed or inclined to, provide a link
to SageMathCloud. It will also help if you put appropriate
disclaimers/clarifications so there is no confusion.

~~~
williamstein
I did that redirect for testing purposes among the SageMathCloud developers; I
did not advertise or link to it, and don't know how anybody found out about it
[edit: somebody saw a github issue that mentioned the domain name]. The next
step, which was being actively worked on the last two days by Tim Clemans, was
modifying the site to change the content as you suggest. I'm too used to doing
open source development very openly, and definitely this was a mistake in this
case.

~~~
carreau
I think it was perfectly reasonable to grab the domain name as it could have
been squatted by anybody else who would have been aware of this name. Just the
fact that it resolves is/was problematic.

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vosper
Off topic; hopefully this reaches the author: This is impossible to read on my
iPhone 6. The text goes way off the side of the screen, but I can't scroll
horizontally to read it. Also double-tapping the screen doesn't make it fit
the text on, which usually works. Actually pinch-to-zoom doesn't work at all.

