
Encourage 'Dutch reach' to stop cyclists' car-door deaths - matthberg
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/11/encourage-dutch-reach-to-stop-cyclists-car-door-deaths-says-charity
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armada651
The 'Dutch Reach' isn't universally taught drivers in the Netherlands, I'm
Dutch and I've never heard of it before. Though everyone is taught about the
dangers of opening your car door without looking.

What's keeping cycling deaths low in the Netherlands is simply keeping
cyclists off the road and putting them on separate bicycle paths.

The article links to an article with this video:
[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/dec/15/trans...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/dec/15/transport-
secretary-chris-grayling-knocks-over-cyclist-as-he-opens-his-car-door-video)

The traffic situation for cyclists in that video is what we would refer to
here as a death trap. It's a busy road with not even a bicycle lane marked on
the road. In the Netherlands you would either get off your bike and walk or
risk a fine and cycle on the sidewalk.

~~~
analog31
Indeed, I don't think that particular video was a good choice for the article.
Too many people will notice that the cyclist who got doored, and the one with
the camera, were passing improperly.

~~~
Symbiote
What is the correct way, on that road?

The cycle lane resumes a hundred metres beyond the collision point.

~~~
analog31
That's a good question. It looked to me like there was simply no cycle lane
before the collision point. If there's no cycle lane, then for better or
worse, the default is to do what you'd do in a car: Wait behind the red bus.

If they were actually in a cycle lane, then of course the correct thing to do
would be to ride in it. Either way, nobody deserves to get doored, and if it
were me in the car, I'd have been extremely cautious about getting out.

I have to flip the picture left-to-right in my mind, to get a sense of it.
Where those cyclists were riding, a narrow slot at the edge of a lane, is
possibly near the top of my list of situations to avoid. Buses make me even
more nervous. I'd have hopped up onto the sidewalk, or found a different
route. Of course that's easy to say, not knowing if there are even any
alternatives.

~~~
Symbiote
The video starts at [1], going north along Abingdon Street, though the
Streetview car was driving in the other direction.

In central London, there's simply no other reasonable option to cycling past
stationary traffic if you wish to proceed by bicycle. I've looked up the
rules, and it's neither recommended nor forbidden, and both drivers and
cyclists are advised to be cautious.

There's also no other practical route, since the cyclist was probably heading
to (or from) a bridge over the Thames.

At this location, it seems the problem is the anti-terrorism barriers. The
traffic engineers should have insisted that the road be closed to motor
traffic when they were installed, but it was probably long enough ago that
only motor vehicles were considered. Closing the south and east sides of
Parliament Square (just ahead), and this road, would be great.

[1]
[https://www.google.dk/maps/@51.4987954,-0.1258692,3a,60y,350...](https://www.google.dk/maps/@51.4987954,-0.1258692,3a,60y,350.26h,91.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snaXE3awdLJr1nJbRbY0B1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

~~~
analog31
Ah, thanks for the context. It looks like a pretty bad situation all around.

------
wiredfool
Dooring, while dangerous, is a small percentage of the risk on the roads.

The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule.
If it's not safe to go into the next lane to pass a cyclist, it's not safe to
pass the cyclist at all.

(edit: and, if we're going to do the work to make people realize that they
could be safer, make sure you're all the way past the cyclist before you pull
in or turn right (left in the UK). Many motorists get their head past the
cyclist and neglect the back half of their car, or the trailer they're towing)

~~~
LambdaComplex
> If it's not safe to go into the next lane to pass a cyclist, it's not safe
> to pass the cyclist at all.

Cyclists may ride in the center of the lane when they want to force this.

> The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule.

Assuming people actually follow that rule, that is.

From my (limited) experience as a cyclist, I think most motorists think they
have more of a right to be on the road than bicycles do. This is false from a
legal standpoint, but knowing the motorist was technically at fault probably
won't make the cyclist feel any better when he's sitting in the hospital after
getting hit by a car.

See this for more info: [http://cyclingsavvy.org/hows-my-
driving/](http://cyclingsavvy.org/hows-my-driving/)

~~~
TaylorAlexander
I had a friend who hated cyclists and thought “they should get out of the
way”. She made no effort to accommodate them on the road.

I think improvements to culture can work, but I think laws of this nature have
a pretty insignificant effect on the culture.

~~~
wiredfool
The garda (irish police) will (occasionally) issue a fixed penalty notice (3
pts + ~80eur fine) if you have video evidence of extremely unsafe passes.

There's still no 1.5m rule here, but it's supposed to be introduced soon.

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bastijn
This has been in and out of the news the past few years. Each time the Dutch,
including me, feel obliged to respond that no dutchy opens his/her doors like
that. We have mirrors, we use them. If we have fewer accidents it must be
because we have a lot of bicycle lanes and our cyclists (every Dutchy) is a
master evader by years of training in what we call large cities.

Dutchy out.

Drops mic.

Cycles away.

------
blunte
I've lived and driven in the Netherlands for five years, and until now I never
heard of this. Neither have I observed Dutch drivers doing it. Not saying it
isn't true, but...

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devn0ll
Even more dangerous to cyclists are the cyclists themselves.

At least in Amsterdam there is something called "Amsterdam Red" meaning: red
does not neccesarily mean stop to cyclists.

When a car/truck is parked on the cycle lane they will happily move to the car
lane without looking...

Helmets. They are not mandatory, and nobody uses them.

So yes, drivers need to look, but cyclists might want to start following rules
and best practices as well.

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microcolonel
Seems like a great solution. Unfortunately I don't see it working here in
Toronto, the cabbies don't even follow the basic rules of the road, they can't
be expected to make a pro-social effort of this sort.

It is encouraging that so few deaths have resulted from dooring though. Ever
slightly over one per year, not to downplay the seriousness of any loss of
life, seems very reasonable.

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afarrell
The door handle of the Mini Cooper affords doing the Dutch Reach.

It is a circle with a shelf that faces forward in a way that makes it awkward
to use the hand nearest the door to open. So, you reach across your body with
your other hand and in doing so, you turn your body and head and your
peripheral vision can catch a moving cyclist.

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hondadriver
I am Dutch and learned to open the door this way. But judging the comments of
other Dutch people, it seems it is not universally taught. I am puzzled why it
would be offensive to call it the Dutch reach. I see it as a compliment.

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JBlue42
Won't stick with Angelenos. They'll continue to kick their car doors open w/o
a thought as to whether bike or car is barreling down towards them.

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nightcracker
As a Dutch person the 'Dutch reach' is offensive. No one I know opens doors
this way. We don't need some 'trick' to remind ourselves not to be assholes.

Just look before you open the door.

~~~
Symbiote
Don't you teach your children to open the door safely? Or people that aren't
often in a car?

On my first day in Denmark,tThe taxi driver who picked me up at Copenhagen
Airport reminded me to look for bikes before I opened the door. The director
at my new job here, who drove me home on my first day, told me to open the
door this way.

So, although I'm not Danish, I doubt calling it the "Danish rearch" would
offend any Danes.

~~~
nightcracker
The key point is that the 'Dutch reach' is supposedly a specific technique
(opening the door with the 'wrong' hand) that we teach, which prevents
accidents.

But in reality this doesn't exist. No one uses it. We all learn to just look,
and not through some trick. And we have other reasons (e.g. better street
design) so our country is more cyclist friendly, but those are ignored in lieu
of some silly trick that doesn't exist and isn't needed.

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VeejayRampay
Just force car manufacturers to make it so that the door is hard to open
unless you're using the opposite hand, it should be easy enough.

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valuearb
Wow, when I rode road bikes, the onus on avoiding suddenly opening car doors
was on me. If bike riders won’t pay attention to avoid car doors, expecting
drivers to is a fools errand.

~~~
enraged_camel
As a cyclist you may have less than one second to avoid an opening car door.
You can't always give a wide berth because bike lanes in the US are usually
very narrow.

~~~
valuearb
You can have all the time you need, if you slow down.

~~~
mikeash
Do you apply the same logic to intersections? You never know when someone
might blow through a red light, so you'd better go through every intersection
at 2MPH so you have enough time to stop if they do.

~~~
valuearb
I do when I’m driving, I slow enough so I can clearly see both ways before I
go through.

~~~
enraged_camel
You do realize that unexpected slow downs also result in many accidents,
right? The behavior you just described is _more_ risky than the default.

~~~
valuearb
no it’s not, i’m not stopping in intersections. I’m not exceeding the speed
limit, I’m going a little less. Fast enough to see oncoming traffic and not to
be rear ended.

~~~
mikeash
Going a little less than the speed limit is not nearly enough. If someone
stopped at the perpendicular red light suddenly floored it, you wouldn't have
enough time to stop. The maximum safe speed through a typical intersection is
probably only about 10MPH. Less if there's not much room between the stopped
traffic and your lane.

