
Why does Apple continue killing bitcoin apps? - calebgarling
http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/02/06/apple-bitcoin/
======
nwh
_Blockchain.info_ 's app undeniably broke the rules and intentionally
manipulated the reviewers to get it on the store in the first place. They
presented it to the reviewers with only monitoring features, and changed the
server it was talking to in order to enable sending features. Anything Bitcoin
aside, they needed to be removed just for this one fact.

This is how the app appeared to the reviewers —
[http://i.imgur.com/pMYRCPL.png](http://i.imgur.com/pMYRCPL.png)

This is how it looked post review —
[http://i.imgur.com/EsoY4sU.png](http://i.imgur.com/EsoY4sU.png)

The CoinJar app is still around anyway, so it's not exactly a "crackdown".

[https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/coinjar-for-
iphone/id7252098...](https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/coinjar-for-
iphone/id725209873?mt=8)

~~~
GuiA
I agree with you - they fully deserve what happened to them.

However, I have to say that I think their little trick is quite cool. I wonder
how many apps on the apps store do a similar thing but went unnoticed by the
powers that be because of a lack of popularity.

~~~
scintill76
I'll also agree it was bad for them to be deceptive. But it goes to show how
stupid the app review process is. If you can alter your app enough that it
wouldn't have passed review, by merely changing an external server that
doesn't fall under App Store code signing policies, what is the point of the
review? Did they even represent that the server would never change? Is that
part of the agreement?

I'm open to being corrected on this, as I know very little. It's just a bit
ironic that Hacker News so gleefully condemns someone for, well, hacking the
app review process (and not in the "cracker" sense.)

~~~
nwh
It's basically just a web view, they can't do much about it. I have an issue
with it because they're making out that they did nothing wrong, where as
really they knew they were breaking the rules this whole time.

~~~
scintill76
Why should changing the site a webview points at, be breaking any rules? The
whole point of a web page is that it can change and is outside the client.
(See below; if there is a rule, I'd be curious to know what it is.) Maybe if
Apple didn't want that to change, they shouldn't allow web views.

I'd guess the app was basically a Blockchain.info-only browser with some glue
to scan QR codes and other system-integration stuff. If anything, people are
even more justified in being pissed with Apple for what amounts to, "OMG, you
changed a webpage that our customers use on their devices, without our
consent! BAN!"

Again, I acknowledge I don't have all the facts, and that BCI did this with
intent to deceive. But it doesn't seem to be actually against any rules; or if
it is, they're draconian or nonsensical rules that people are right to be
angry with Apple about. One can still be angry with Apple that deception was
the only way to get an app a lot of people want, that has no legal reason it
can't be in the App Store.

Many Bitcoiners are mad at Apple; a few here think BCI is at fault. I see
blame on both sides, but am more upset with Apple. (I do understand Apple can
legally do whatever they want with their own store.)

I would be interested to know if there is actually a rule about changes to a
backend server after review, and how it is worded. Or any rule that describes
exactly what Blockchain.info did wrong. I think such a rule would be written
here[0], but I can't read it without an Apple Developer ID.

[0]
[https://developer.apple.com/appstore/guidelines.html](https://developer.apple.com/appstore/guidelines.html)

------
alaskamiller
Because it's unregulated and any problems then lands at Apple's door to
adjudicate so they don't want these headaches because to do so requires
setting up channels and systems and policies for the local, state, federal,
and international areas of contention but the lack of profit incentives makes
this a simple decision.

Do I get a MBA now?

~~~
tlrobinson
Alternatively: Apple is poised to take on mobile payments (with over half a
billion accounts with credit cards on file) and doesn't want anything to
disrupt their plans.

Anyway, why is it Apple's responsibility to ensure every app developer and
user complies with the law?

~~~
gtirloni
It's not. However, all those customers that will get screwed will knock on
Apple's door, even if they have been warned with huge blinking-red letters
that it is not Apple's responsibility to provide insurance for bitcoin
transactions. Apple doesn't need the headache for what will probably be
0.00001% of their revenue.

~~~
derekp7
Just like everyone who gets shafted by a Windows app goes and complains to
Microsoft?

~~~
ceol
Yes, all six of the people who use the Windows Store.

------
d0ugie
Like it or not, Bitcoin, like Tor, and this will continue to increase over
time, is associated closely by the public with drugs, money laundering, gun
running and so forth. The US government may take a more aggressive stance
against it like the Chinese. There's not much in it for Apple to not distance
itself from the liabilities Bitcoin presents.

~~~
sdegutis
Parsing error: line 1, sentence 1.

~~~
bmunro
I parsed it as follows:

Like it or not, Bitcoin - like Tor - (and this will continue to increase over
time) is associated closely by the public with drugs, money laundering, gun
running and so forth.

~~~
jessaustin
So four (to be charitable, two) syntactically incorrect tokens will cause a
parsing error? Good to know!

------
Touche
Image. They want to be seen as safe and mainstream. They build devices to suit
a soccer mom's sensibilities.

~~~
buttsex
I don't see how having a Bitcoin wallet app makes them unsafe. There are
plenty of non-mainstream apps in the store as well.

~~~
briandh
A lot of mainstream media reports paint Bitcoin as essentially a currency for
buying drugs.

~~~
reverb256
So what? Anyone with a brain knows the media does this thing called
"sensationalism" and does not accurately reflect reality.

------
Geee
I guess one reason is that Apple doesn't want iPhones targeted by hackers, or
they know that the platform isn't secure enough, so they don't want to take
the responsibility. After all, someone could store million dollars on their
iPhone. You can say that that's user's mistake if they get hacked, but this
could open variety of liability issues for Apple. So they want to protect
users and themselves.

Edit: The thing with Bitcoin is that it's impossible to know who steals your
money. It could be Apple, NSA, russian hacker or your mom. Apple doesn't want
to deal with that kind of uncertainty.

~~~
beedogs
That makes absolutely no sense.

~~~
retroafroman
It makes some sense. If there are bitcoin wallet apps, there will be attacks
that try to steal the bitcoins in the wallet. It increases the incentive to
find ways to do this.

~~~
beedogs
There _were_ bitcoin apps on iOS. For two years. There were no attacks.

~~~
Geee
Remote wallets only. This means(?) that they don't want to store bitcoin keys.

------
nullc
Unfortunately for Blockchain, Apple taken over all legal responsibility, under
all applicable laws, in all jurisdictions, on matters criminal and civil,
including allegations of patent infringement, and fully identified all
developers for their platform.

So you can understand why they'd be conservative about this sort of
thing.</sarcasm>

Really as a matter of public policy we shouldn't allow them to have it both
ways. If Apple wants to behave as some kind of common carrier and have no
liability for the applications they chose to include or exclude they should be
held to some kind of reasonable standard of fairness.

------
milesf
If anyone develops apps on closed platforms (iOS, Windows, OSX, etc) you will
always be at the whim of said company's right to cull their platform.

The solution? Stop sharecropping. Build on platforms that are open.

~~~
Uchikoma
The problem is not building a plattform, the problem is marketing one ($$$).
You can't make money on a plattform without users willing to pay.

~~~
milesf
You mean like virtually every subscription web app out there? (eg: Basecamp,
etc)

------
beedogs
I'm going to go with "because they're a terrible, monopolistic company that
doesn't really care at all about their users." This wasn't always the case.

~~~
interstitial
I'm going to go with they've got nothing to gain, and if they do bring bitcoin
to the iOS they will do it there way.

~~~
beedogs
My point.

~~~
mwfunk
No, it wasn't. That's not what you said.

~~~
ninjac0der
Try reading what was said without the apple dicks in your ears.

------
lnanek2
Google has been cracking down on PayPal use in apps lately. Any crackdown on
potential in app payment currencies not tied to the market's primary payment
processor doesn't surprise me. Apple and Google are both businesses after all,
and they decide what goes on in their stores.

------
csense
Apple has always been hostile to hackers trying to develop for their platform
[1] [2]. The iPhone app store has always involved a crapshoot about whether
your app will get accepted or stay accepted.

I stay far, far away from the Apple ecosystem because it seems like starting
out with underpowered hardware, jacking up the price and crippling it with a
ton of lockdowns would be shooting yourself in the foot in a competitive
market -- and it would be, for any company that doesn't have Apple's marketing
genius.

I personally don't care about marketing at all, so it doesn't work on me.

[1] IMHO, if you're working on any commercial project -- hardware, software,
website, whatever -- you want to encourage user-generated innovation as much
as possible. Convincing people to build on your product means there are people
working to make your product better without you paying them. So it's in your
interest to make life as easy as possible for innovators. Maybe this doesn't
justify a huge engineering expenditure on features targeted to developers, but
it certainly means you shouldn't go out of your way to make life difficult for
developers, like Apple's app store approval with its bizarre restrictions and
opaque decision process does.

[2] That people put up with Apple's crap and develop for their platform anyway
is a testament to the hacker spirit. Or maybe to the number of gullible people
in this world willing to pay top dollar for Apple phones that create a market.
Or perhaps because the first iPhone was in the right place at the right time,
disrupted a market that was ripe for disruption, and then network effects make
its dominance stable (especially over the short-to-medium term).

------
ps4fanboy
Imagine if you couldnt install apps on your macbook, I get really angry at
Apple for their appstore bull, at least on android and msft phone you can side
load apps.

~~~
Diamons
You can install home screen apps freely.

~~~
ps4fanboy
When did a bookmark become an app.

------
pervycreeper
Because they want to be able to take their 30% slice. Not so mysterious.

~~~
prezjordan
Someone brought up in another thread that you can still use banking
applications. When you transfer money on something like BoA or even Venmo,
Apple doesn't get a cut.

~~~
chc
That's true. Do you think it means that the in-app purchase rule doesn't
exist, or are you just very intrigued that banking is treated differently from
other transactions?

~~~
gress
The in-app purchase rule applies to purchased content that is delivered _in
the app_.

------
billyhoffman
[1] Blockchain CEO Nicholas Cary:"Bitcoin’s use for international payments
from family members sending money home to support entire communities in the
developing world and for charity fundraising and fund distribution will be
severely affected by this decision"

... I don't think an immigrant worker using a $600+ smart phone to send home
money via Bitcoin is a very common use case. Pushing such a message makes Cary
and Blockchain come off as deceptive or naive or both.

[1] [http://www.equities.com/editors-desk/currencies-forex/why-
ap...](http://www.equities.com/editors-desk/currencies-forex/why-apple-
ditched-blockchain-not-worth-the-trouble)

------
jbrooksuk
I've developed a basic ticker app to quickly see the value of 1BTC in various
currencies. Underneath is a graph that updates in realtime to show you the
historical value.

Apple have denied my app on the grounds that it's too simple. The whole point
is it's simple. My counting app is simple, this is much more complicated that
managing 1 number, but they won't allow it.

Interesting...

------
microcolonel
That graph which is supposed to be showing the "volatility" of bitcoin has a
base in the hundreds and a tip around the hundreds, I think it would've been a
bit more honest to start with zero in this case, given that volatility only
matters for its relative impact on your holdings.

------
SG-
Can these app makers put their source up so we can build and install it on our
own phones? it seems like a bitcoin wallet app should likely be open source
anyways to make sure it's secured.

------
nly
Bitcoin apps hold private keys that can result in financial loss for the
owner. What happens if a bug in Apple code results in phone compromise and
millions of users losing their Bitcoins?

------
reverb256
I hope I don't have to worry about Apple remotely deleting my wallet app. I
swear, the control freak approach of Apple pisses me off more than anything.

------
pistle
Why does Apple continue killing apps which violate terms of service or defraud
the app review process? Dunno...

------
cyphunk
Apple is keeping the entire space pure for Dogecoin apps.

