
I got this Cease and Desist for scraping someone's site - mkrecny
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15758821/scraping.png
======
Procrastes
I'll be the one to say it then.

It's a trap!

Don't do anything without an attorney. The Monday deadline is to ensure you
don't stop and think of that option.

Do not respond.

Call an attorney. Let the attorney write the response, if any. Don't send a
potential adversary evidence they don't have and don't try to figure this out
yourself without professional legal advice.

Consider the legal fees insurance against an irrational amount of future
awfulness.

~~~
jaunkst
This is the best advice.

------
JakDrako
Do you have some old full-sized SCSI 40MB drive lying around? It'd be amusing
to see them trying to connect that to any modern computer...
[http://www.biocomp.net/seagate_st4766n.jpg](http://www.biocomp.net/seagate_st4766n.jpg)

~~~
Theodores
You could also mention that the original data is on a SSD drive that is
soldered to the motherboard of your MacBook Air/High-End Notebook/Chromebook
and point out that even if you did send them a hard drive with a copy of
everything downloaded that it would be just a copy. The original is uploaded
'onto the cloud' and not easy to delete even if you did smash the MBP to
pieces, GCHQ/Guardian style.

Therefore, there is no need to send a drive, even a small child could
understand that. A lawyer-type asking for 'the drive' does not get around this
detail of how 's and 0's can be easily copied. Point out there is no need for
the show.

Finally, go nucular on them. Say you are going to post your scraper tool onto
github with full instructions on how to scrape their site unless $3,141,592.65
is donated by them to the EFF by teatime on Tuesday.

~~~
abrowne

        > SSD drive that is soldered to the motherboard of your MacBook Air/High-End Notebook/Chromebook 
    

Nitpick of something I hear a lot: No SSD is soldered on in a MacBook Air or
any Chromebook I've seen[1]. You may need an unusual screwdriver (MBA – maybe
worse for a Chromebook) to get the bottom cover off, but then it's just a
single screw. The PCs I've seen are similar, but I don't have as much
experience there.

I assume the confusion started because the RAM _is_ soldered.

[1] You can see internal pictures at chromium.org, e.g.
[http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-
fo...](http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-
os-devices/acer-c720-chromebook)

------
ejk314
So they want you to send them your physical hard drive, presumably to assure
themselves that the data has been erased...

But then they also want you to 'delete any data in your possession', so they
already know that that is bullshit.

~~~
tesq
It's so that they can nail you to the wall with the evidence you willfully
sent them when they take you to court.

~~~
cornholio
Damn straight. Do not engage these people, do not answer any correspondence -
speak to a lawyer if they proceed to legal threats.

~~~
mmagin
This. They're just gathering more evidence by getting you to hand them a hard
drive with this on it.

------
jaunkst
Web scraping may be against the terms of use of some websites. The
enforceability of these terms is unclear.[5] While outright duplication of
original expression will in many cases be illegal, in the United States the
courts ruled in Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service that duplication
of facts is allowable. U.S. courts have acknowledged that users of "scrapers"
or "robots" may be held liable for committing trespass to chattels,[6][7]
which involves a computer system itself being considered personal property
upon which the user of a scraper is trespassing. The best known of these
cases, eBay v. Bidder's Edge, resulted in an injunction ordering Bidder's Edge
to stop accessing, collecting, and indexing auctions from the eBay web site.
This case involved automatic placing of bids, known as auction sniping.
However, in order to succeed on a claim of trespass to chattels, the plaintiff
must demonstrate that the defendant intentionally and without authorization
interfered with the plaintiff's possessory interest in the computer system and
that the defendant's unauthorized use caused damage to the plaintiff. Not all
cases of web spidering brought before the courts have been considered trespass
to chattels.[8]

------
Scoundreller
Will you be in any way released from legal liability by complying?

This sounds like "We don't quite have enough evidence that you did it, please
admit to it fully so we have enough to throw the book at you".

------
aosmith
So all these ignore it comments are generally ok but it depends on who you're
dealing with. Remember that TOS violations are covered under the CFAA, CL has
a reputation for this sort of behavior.

~~~
mkrecny
Yeah, I'm definitely complying.

~~~
aosmith
I don't think you need to comply unless this is a court order. I wouldn't
comply with anything short of that because you're essentially helping them
build a case against you.

------
pyre
Some more context here:
[https://twitter.com/recborg/status/482629723663507456](https://twitter.com/recborg/status/482629723663507456)

> @redheadjessica it's a business with a physical location that I sometimes
> frequent - they'd ban me from it.

[edit: I wonder if the pages scraped a publicly accessible. Maybe they are
only accessible on LAN while at said location? This might put an interesting
twist on things (as everyone here is just assuming a site accessible on the
public Internet.]

------
noonespecial
Gut instinct is that that looks like a nigerian-scam level email. Not quite
sure what they are fishing for or what they hope to get out of the disk they
want you to send but I'd just ignore it. Almost certainly that will be the end
of it. If they escalate to a real lawyer contacting you by paper mail, then
look into a quick consult with a local attorney to see what if anything you
should do.

But do stop scraping the site and stay clear of any involvement with it in the
future.

------
defen
Why would you post the text of such an absurd claim and not name who it is? Do
you really fear them that much / desire to use their services that much that
you would put up with this?

~~~
Alupis
Do +not+ comply with the demand.

There is nothing (law, morals, or else) that prevents one from scraping a
publicly accessible website.

~~~
willu
"There is nothing (law, morals, or else) that prevents one from scraping a
publicly accessible website."

Can you point to any legal precedent that supports your contention (honest
question)?

~~~
Alupis
No, it would be the other way around. You would have to find legal precedent
that implies you must obey random requests for data from website operators...

(and I'm pretty sure there is none).

------
poopsintub
How did they link up your visits/scrapes to an email in the first place? You
shouldn't have responded to the emails. If they're serious, I would think they
would/will have sent certified mail. Then you can take it seriously, but not
until then.

------
jaunkst
as a condition demand a signed letter of the cease and desist that includes
releasing you of legal liabilitie to be sent to yourself and the state
attorney to be signed on delivery.

------
jameshk
It might be fun to mess with them a little, but if they send you any real
legal threats consult an attorney, and don't reply to any more of their
email's.

------
corporealshift
IANAL but ignore it

------
tbrooks
Why did you take the site down? Wouldn't that appear as an admission of guilt
on some level?

------
err4nt
does an email attachment with their data constitute returning it to these
people? You may not need to go to all the trouble of dropping off your hard
drive.

But in all seriousness, enjoy your new toilet paper because that's all that
letter is good for!

------
thisispete
just curious; what evidence do they have that you saved any data in the first
place?

------
alixaxel
Wtf...

Even if you were going to comply, how can you be sure they wouldn't steal YOUR
data?

~~~
NotAtWork
They asked for a copy of the data on an otherwise clean hard drive, likely
because they want to assess what he copied.

From the letter, it's clear that they don't expect anything else to be there,
since they comment that they're going to wipe the drive when they're done
looking at it, before returning the drive.

The drive is just meant as a convenient way to transfer a large amount of
data.

------
driverdan
Who was it? Call them out.

------
ender89
This calls for a very simple response: "rotfl!"

------
jameshk
Can you give us more context on what you scraped?

------
throwawayFCC
"Very truly your"

------
icedchai
I'd just ignore it. Or send them an old (blank) drive, along with an invoice
for your time.

