
Meerkat Founder on Getting the Kill Call from Twitter - carlchenet
http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/06/meerkat-founder-on-getting-the-kill-call-from-twitter/
======
ColinWright
Twitter has form[0]:

    
    
        Twitter Cuts Off DataSift To
        Step Up Its Own Big Data Business 
    

As I said elsewhere[1]:

    
    
        Never, ever trust another company
        for your business model.
    

I was accused on that occasion of spouting a "thought-terminating cliche" \-
the resulting discussion was interesting. But think what you like, as some
else has said, working with Twitter is like collecting pennies in front of a
steam-roller[2][3][4].

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9363102](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9363102)

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9363274](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9363274)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9504016](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9504016)

[3]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taleb_distribution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taleb_distribution)

[4]
[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=collecting+pennies+in+fron...](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=collecting+pennies+in+front+of+a+steamroller)

~~~
MichaelGG
What value was there for DataSift to resell Twitter data and take a cut? What
could possibly be in it for Twitter? In fact it's worse on two dimensions.
First, financial (DataSift apparently gets an 80% cut). Second, DS gets the
lock-in _and_ "commoditizes" Twitter's offering, by putting it right beside a
dozen other "sources". It's obvious that this deal was just just market
evaluation or laziness on Twitter's part, or at best, wanting to keep a
barrier between them and the data seller in case things went wrong. DataSift
had a time-limited contract and it ran out. Their competitor (Gnip) apparently
delivered a useful product by spending far less money.

(Of note is that FB's new sentiment analysis data product is being trialed via
DataSift. This feels like a similar thing, with the added benefit that if it
goes sour ("omg FB is literally selling our data/feelings"), they've got a
slight degree of separation. Plus faster time to market etc. (Note that this
didn't help DatSift's sudden loss of FB connectivity the other month, as FB
dropped an API when they felt like it.)

On Meerkat, they were flagrantly disobeying the rules Twitter had set forth.
They knew they were going to get in trouble, but "growth hacking". Related:
Maybe my awesome search engine that just frontends Google isn't a great idea
either.

That there's any sympathy or surprise here is confusing to me.

~~~
frabcus
I strongly suspect that at the time they signed the deal (5 years ago),
Twitter didn't have the technical capability to resell data (the site itself
was going down lots!), so they had to do deal with DataSift and others.

DataSift previously ran TweetMeme, and did have good technical / scaling
capabilities.

(I think I read that there was some other scaled technical thing DataSift did
for Twitter too, but I can't remember what - so take this comment as a hint
rather than facts)

------
erhardm
Welcome to the _new_ world of closed ecosystems. May be a wakeup call for
others who think they can directly compete with those who actually pull the
strings of the ecosystem.

When the TA from my university told us updates for the laboratory will be on
facebook, I told him I want them on email. Everyone in the room looked at me
like I was a dinosaur who doesn't have a facebook account.

TA was surprised too as well, until I asked rhetorically " _why facebook? Why
not Google+, LinkedIn, Twitter, Snapchat, Kik, DropBox etc?_ ". The TA then
understood my point and updates were sent on email.

Although Meerkat vs Periscope is not exactly the same thing, but its problems
are from the same reasons, open vs closed ecosystem.

~~~
amelius
The problem is that everybody wants to be the "gate keeper", and become the
regulator of their own market. But there can at most be a few of them for a
particular market.

It is ironic that the "free market" eventually leads to such an outcome.

~~~
codeulike
_It is ironic that the "free market" eventually leads to such an outcome._

The best way to win in a free market is to stop the market from being free
(form a monopoly, influence the governmrnt, etc) ... Surely every good
capitalist knows that.

~~~
dylanjermiah
You're no longer winning in a free market if it isn't free.

~~~
drdeca
This may be true, but as true is it also that when one has checkmated the
opponent's king, one is no longer winning at chess. Instead, one has won at
chess. And if play continues, the game is no longer chess. This would not mean
though that one has not won at chess.

~~~
dylanjermiah
I would say it's more like physically hitting the opponents king off the board
and claiming you've won at chess.

------
gadders
This isn't the first time it has happened to people who try to build on
Twitter (or other people's) ecosystem. I believe the phrase used before was
"Picking up pennies in front of a steam roller".

------
caractacus
Less interesting to hear about the call from Twitter (hardly unexpected in the
context) than about plans for the future. Given Twitter's dislike of external
applications, giving Meerkat a decent API and dev platform could make a
difference in usage compared to Periscope which may end up too tied to
Twitter.

------
falcolas
What value did Meerkat offer Twitter? Were they paying for API access, or
providing a positive public image for Twitter? Did they work with Twitter at
all to get a blessing on their use of the API?

Wasn't the story at the time of shutdown that they were spamming social graphs
with messages, sans the user's explicit permission?

This message sounds like so much spin; an attempt to get Meerkat back on the
radar by playing the "poor me" card.

------
mavdi
Sadly this is yet another instance of closed platform provider pulling the
plug with no warning or consideration. I don't think people properly evaluate
the risks involved when they invest so heavily in such platforms.

My personal golden rule: Never, no matter how lucrative it might seem, invest
in any shape or form in a closed ecosystem.

~~~
oblio
Or if you do it, think of it as a Ponzi scheme: make sure that you cash in
before the steam roller rolls you over!

~~~
danieltillett
This not investing - it is gambling.

~~~
oblio
True, but apparently it does not deter people.

------
pdkl95
This new generation of startups really needs to learn some fundamental
business and engineering methods, like the value of always having a second
source[1].

I cannot understand why some people think it is a _sane_ idea to run a
business where the your main product or service depends entirely on a single
point of failure; doubly so when that single point of failure is controlled
entirely by someone else that can cut you off without consequences.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_source](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_source)

~~~
sensationaltru
What happened to the good ol' "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" adage?

~~~
HelloNurse
Optimists don't care about baskets because they don't believe their business
is made of eggs.

------
joshstrange
I'm not sure how many of you have used Meerkat or Periscope but I used
Periscope for the first time the other day and found it EXTREMELY frustrating.
Bernie Sanders posted a link to a live stream and I wanted to watch it but I
couldn't for the life of me figure out how to watch it online (strike 1).
There apparently IS a way to do this but I couldn't find it and coming from
someone who does web/mobile development for a living that should never happen.
So I downloaded the app and signed in with Twitter. Then I tried clicking the
link to the stream again but I couldn't get it to open up in the app (strike
2). I then searched for "Bernie Sanders" and found him and clicked the
"Follow" button. I then swiped back over to the first screen that shows the
current streams for people you follow and it was blank... I don't know how
often this updates but I'd expect if I just fucking followed someone (who was
streaming LIVE) then this page would update (strike 3). I went back to search
and clicked on his name and saw I could click on his picture to jump into his
live stream which I did. This seemed to work but the comments/hearts were
SUPER FUCKING ANNOYING, I really wish there was a way to disable those
covering up the video. I watched the stream (which cut out a few times, this
may have just been the streamers connection) and afterwards I wanted to see
what I missed at the start but AFAICT there is NO WAY TO WATCH OLD STREAMS
(strike 4?). This is deal breaker for me. Fuck your "synchronous" model, it's
horseshit. Live streaming is fine but let me watch what they streamed if I
missed it or if I came in late.

I don't know about any of you but I am not able to jump on a stream at a
seconds notice and then watch the full stream until it's over. My job doesn't
allow for that and more importantly my brain won't allow for that. I can't
drop everything just to watch something live, I need DVR or similar. I'm fine
with temp video (Live stream + online for 14hrs) but live-only? What a MASSIVE
step backwards.

------
jkestner
It's a shame that Twitter didn't choose the interest graph as its core feature
instead of the timeline. Then instead of choking third parties who take away
eyeballs but expand Twitter's user base, they'd encourage them. Twitter seems
to be trying this belatedly with Fabric, but who's going to trust them now?

Ben Thompson says this better: [https://stratechery.com/2015/twitter-
might/](https://stratechery.com/2015/twitter-might/)

------
hyperpallium
1981: "These kinds of programs tend to be quickly developed, sell fast, but
don't last long as often the vendor you're tagging along with brings out a new
release with your feature in it."
[http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/section2_2_10.html](http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/section2_2_10.html)

------
gfodor
At what point does something like Twitter become a monopoly or a utility, and
at what point does it become anti-competitive for them to block applications
from using their service strictly because they compete? Microsoft's 'crimes'
of packaging the browser with the OS seem charming now, it's not like they
were preventing you from installing competing browsers.

I don't know the answer but it certainly seems like as a few of these major
social networks grow to dominate our lives the regulators may need to step in
eventually.

~~~
MichaelGG
Is there any indication this was anti competitive and not simply because
Meerkat was spamming and misusing the API? Meerkat said they knew they were
going to get cut sooner or later, they were just hoping they'd slip by
quickly.

------
metaphorm
what was this article even about? I guess I'm not cool enough these days to
even know what the cool kid apps are up to. Who are these guys?

------
paulhauggis
Twitter is a great way to build a business. In the beginning, when you have no
money for marketing and no traffic, it's fantastic.

But anyone doing so should be simultaneously also building out other ways to
get users (getting contact info, pushing them to go to your site, etc).

------
amelius
An API with merely a "one-sided" legal contract is not an API.

~~~
nness
I don't understand how Twitter API's terms of use is any different than other
API's? They all contain terms that outline the service can be sudden
terminated at the discretion of the service provider, particularly in cases of
abuse (and Meerkats service certainly fits that category)

