

Ask HN: How can I (illegal immigrant/programmer) get legal status in US? - trumbo

I have been a Javascript/Ruby on Rails programmer for 7 years. Living in the US for 15 years. I came here with my parents illegally, and went through high school, then college. My parents became citizens recently. However, they cannot sponsor me for a green card due to this: to pick up my green card, I would have to leave the country, but since I overstayed my visa I would not be allowed in for 10 years.<p>Not having legal status was not a barrier to working here for the last 7 years using only a tax id number, but that changed recently. This realization comes at a hard time for me. I am co-founding a company that is on the verge of getting funding, but we likely will not net the $250K that is precondition of the Startup Visa Act. I desperately want to stay in the country I grew up, but my capital is almost gone. Yet I can't go back either due to not having done the mandatory military service at my country of origin. It's a bizarre, Kafkaesque, nightmarish situation.<p>My lawyer has not been helpful, and has only recommended that I get married to an American citizen, which is not possible with my meager interpersonal resources.<p>I don't know why I'm posting here, but I'm pretty much hopeless so why the hell not. If anyone can offer some help, advice or a kind word it would mean a lot.
======
nick-dap
I am in the same boat.

This could be my story, except my parents never managed to legalize, and I
couldn't even get a tax id. Lawyers haven't been able to help. I am going to a
"big shot" lawyer soon to see what he says, but at this point I'm not holding
my breath. I was brought to the states at the age of 12; that was 13 years
ago. I'm in limbo, as you.

Forget the Start Visa Act, that's fresh out the oven and even if it did,
somehow, manage to make it through the stalemate in Congress, there is no way
it would cover people like you and I, who have "broken the law" (we were
brought here as children, for the few who will miss the point). Something that
_could_ help us is the Dream Act.

In college I started <http://dreamact.info> It is the biggest community of
would be Dream Act beneficiaries and undocumented students. I'm not too proud
of what's there at this point -- I always want to do more -- but it's the best
I could do with life always catching up. =( I've been in and out of the fray
trying to pass this bill and perhaps have some things to share that go beyond
the scope of this comment. If you are at all interested in the bill, or just
want somebody to share with -- I know it gets very tough -- feel free to
contact me at nick at dreamact.info

I hope this gives you hope. Hang in there.

~~~
trumbo
God, I remember when the Dream Act was first introduced. I wrote a story about
it for my school newspaper, then started a GeoCities site, and then a
newsletter. I thought it would be no time before it would get through. That
was over 10 years ago! If it were passed 4 to 10 years from now, which is its
apparent trajectory, it would be too late for me to benefit from it. I'm
getting less and less optimistic with every year. Nothing changes, man.
Nothing. I can hang on for the moment, but just barely. :(

Nothing makes sense.

~~~
nick-dap
We got very close to the passage of the bill during the lame duck session (dec
2010). Twenty ten especially was filled with energy and action; that's what
got us there.

I've seen one thing consistently, we, as a movement, are getting older,
smarter, and closer to our goals. Not unlike starting a startup in high
school, you are bound to fail, but after 10 years of failing you learn a thing
or two. The timeline for the passage of the bill is not some constant or
range. It is a linear function of how smart we work and how much energy we put
into it. If I learned one thing, is that Congress has absolutely zero interest
in passing the bill, either party. They all just want to get elected again.
You work from there.

If by "too late for me," you are referring to the age limit in the bill, the
Dream Act usually gets introduced without the limit and the 30 year old age
limit is sometimes tacked on as a "compromise" in the process. Also, the
number I keep seeing lately is 35, simply because its taking this long to pass
the bill. I want the limit gone, it makes zero sense from any angle. It is
only good for marketing the bill to hypocrites who'll never support it anyway,
"look only kids will benefit." Fucking load of shit, we were kids when this
mess started!! Just because you've been in legal limbo for 20 years, doesn't
make you less American. Eh... You give a finger you get nothing, you give a
hand, you get nothing, you give half your torso, and you still get nothing.
That is the dynamic of party relations in the Senate right now. Democrats
compromise, Republicans just keep saying "No" because that will get them
elected. The age limit is a compromise not worth making and we'll make sure
the Senators know about it. I see more and more people who are already over
the proposed limits, they deserve this more than I.

Personally, I'm not ruling out "going back." Although, it's not really going
back is it, its leaving everything and everyone you know behind to go to a
place you barely remember, if at all. I have the same problem, not having done
mandatory military service, I'd probably be arriving into a jail cell. That is
unless I arrive after a certain age. The country of your origin may have a
similar rule, look into it. Coincidentally, this is the strategy of our
opposition, they call it "attrition." Make our lives so miserable that we
leave on our own. Look at the AZ bill. Look at the Georgia bill that will be
signed by the governor in a couple of days. We leave, they win. I don't know
what they win exactly, you and I are clearly American and have something to
contribute to society. But, I don't care about the principle of this thing
much, I just want to breathe free for once (ironic isn't it.)

What helped me deal with this situation personally, is just not being afraid
anymore. That sounds cliche, but something just snapped one night somewhere
around the time where my friend was going to be deported (a few days later,
Sen. Dick Durbin has personally acted to stop his deportation), and I just
said you know what fuck it all. I know I'm worth something as a human being. I
know I'm a competent "product" guy that loves what he does. If the worst thing
that I have to be afraid of is getting shipped out clenching my American
diploma, then fuck em. Ship me out and let me live my fucking life already. Or
do what you have been doing and pretend that I don't exist. I'll be fine
either way, so fuck you. You can see I was angry, not bitter, I think I have
it easy compared to others and certainly the rest of the world, just angry.
That night I made a pact with myself, fear will never be a factor again. It
worked. Somehow accepting the possible consequences and not being afraid of
them anymore has helped me get a grip on this situation emotionally. Over the
years I've developed a really thick skin, nothing ever surprises me anymore.
In addition, overcoming this fear -- I can't even say concretely what I was
afraid of, it's just this perpetual state that you are in as an undocumented
person -- has given me a ton of confidence. You want to bring me down? It will
take you a lifetime; enjoy the ride.

So my advice is please do ALL you can to change your status, but if no avenues
are available, do what you can to improve your quality of life. Come to some
kind of an arrangement with your co-founders and keep going, keep doing what
you love, live your life as fully as you possibly can, we are still incredibly
fortunate. Just look at yourself as you, not as the system sees you.

~~~
ottoid
In support of above poster's message:

While the American laws are comparatively flexible and open (compared to a few
other countries), it is many of our mistakes we make as people (whether in the
system or not) to define ourselves as folks by the law instead of by
ourselves, by our own capabilities. With the OP, I can say that if they went
to some other developing country, they would still make a good living. It
won't be America but that is where the equalization will improve over time,
might be long,

MEANWHILE, don't forget yourself as a person, as a person with capability
rather than a person with disobedience to the law.

Create the company, if it does not meet the startup visa requirements, no
worries, just create it anyway. Supportive people will help you with your
issue, your co-workers, your friends. Folks visiting HN support you too!

------
silencio
Get a good immigration lawyer, and go see more than one if possible. They can
make all the difference. I can remember the end of the process it took both my
parents to get green cards very many years ago when I was a kid. It was with a
lawyer that dealt with the case like it was cakewalk where everyone else
wouldn't even touch the case for being too complicated (I suspect it was
something with prior legal non-arranged marriages and a visa overstay). After
the last interview my parents and their lawyer were partying like there was no
tomorrow.

As for the marriage suggestion, this may be downvoted to hell, but if that's
your only option left it isn't impossible. It's a huge commitment on the part
of you and the person you marry, as well as anyone associated with you both
and that's usually what makes or breaks the deal. It takes so much to prove
your marriage that it's incredibly difficult to fake it with someone you don't
care about or know very well (and vice versa). Sometime last year I went to an
interview to be an interpreter for a family friend applying for a green card,
and the people trying to use marriage to get a green card were very obvious by
the huge bags full of photo albums and more they were carrying around. One
person I saw brought literally thousands of printed photos to flood their
interviewer with, and another couple were sorting through a huge photo library
on their laptop. It's no joke. (And obligatory "it's illegal" comment.)

Of course, it isn't your only option at this point. Since you say your parents
are now citizens, they have options for sponsoring you especially if you are
under 21. I don't know that the visa overstay and green card problem is
necessarily true since you entered the country legally and there are probably
ways to work around that 10 year thing, but IANAL. Like I said, a good lawyer
makes a big difference. Shop around if you must. They will be better to inform
you of your choices.

~~~
peelle
I wanted to address your marriage comments. First off I do not think people
should get married unless they are in love. Marrying for citizenship is
terrible in my opinion. Also, below is just my experience. It may not be the
norm.

I'm American, born and raised with an immigrant wife(from Asia). When we went
into DHS for our interview, we thought "Tons of pictures." == "evidence of
love". We were wrong. The interviewer didn't want to see the pictures. She
wanted to see our joint property, bank accounts, and utility bills.

The following are guesses on my part. I believe pictures are useless because
you can produce a lot in several settings very quickly, and pictures can be
doctored. Most importantly if pictures are trusted, they are only a testament
to the past, not the present or future.

------
nikcub
you didn't mention the most important aspect of this story: your country of
origin. things are very different for those from, for eg. australia vs being
from, for eg. columbia

sounds like you need to either pay somebody to marry you, or sneak out of the
country and go to a third-nation, live there for a while and apply for
residence via your parents from there

could be possible that they don't know you were in the USA. SFO is one of the
only airports where they don't check internationals on the way out.

~~~
wolfrom
Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, but I've never been checked on my way out of
the US. My first thought on this was to enter Canada and go home from there
(detouring around the US on your return flight).

I've actually called US Customs and Immigration before to discuss visas and
status. As you're not identifying yourself in the call, you might be able to
get a feel for whether or not you would have trouble leaving the country and
then getting sponsored.

~~~
lutorm
Being Swedish, I've _always_ had to surrender my I-94 upon leaving, though
that's always been by air (including at SFO). (And there's always a warning on
it that says essentially that "if you fail to surrender the I-94 we will think
that you've remained illegally".)

~~~
abhijitr
AFAIK, they don't take your I-94 if you're traveling to Canada or Mexico for
under 30 days.

------
hugh3
_I desperately want to stay in the country I grew up, but my capital is almost
gone. Yet I can't go back either due to not having done the mandatory military
service at my country of origin._

Can't you go to a third country?

------
lutorm
I don't understand your situation. If you entered illegally, how can you
overstay your visa? If you entered illegally, presumably you didn't _have_ a
visa.

But clearly this is something you should talk to a good lawyer about. If your
current one isn't helpful, find a new one.

------
sganesh
Have you ever witnessed or reported a crime? There is a provision in the US
immigration law that lets illegal immigrants to get legalized if that's the
case.

Edit: or a victim of a crime. There was an investigative news story about this
topic, in a la or a sf news paper about a month or so. I am searching for it.

~~~
trumbo
Yes, I have. I was attacked and roughed up by some thugs when I was 15. We
reported the case to the police, so I'm sure there is a case about this.
Please let me know if you find anything on this!

~~~
sganesh
[http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b...](http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=ee1e3e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=ee1e3e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD)

------
ldargin
Marrying a citizen now will not help. You will still be out of status, and
will not be allowed to adjust your status.

~~~
lutorm
Not true. As long as you _entered_ legally, even if you are out of status now,
you can adjust your status if you marry a US citizen. Just another of the many
ways immigration law makes no sense.

~~~
ldargin
I looked this up in Visajourney.com, and yes, you are correct. Also, leaving
the US triggers the 10 year ban.

------
ottoid
Once someone immediately related to you becomes a citizen, they can apply for
your citizenship regardless of your immigration status. Do checkup on it in
detail, I have a very strong hunch about it being correct.

If not that, talk to a better lawyer about asking your local senator to help
you in gaining legal status and see if that helps. Or maybe apply for
immigration through asylum due to the military requirement in home country?

~~~
ottoid
Now that I read some more responses maybe the under 21 rules do come into play
but maybe a senator can help with that? Getting this question answered from
another lawyer would help too.

Sometimes, time will have to tell but remember you can succeed on your own
just fine and remember to define yourself by your own work rather than the law
- just be cautious of the law and live with your purpose that you have lived
with. You truly are amazing mate.

------
charlesdm
I believe that there are a couple of ways to get in, but for those you need to
be outside of the US first. What country are you originally from?

I'm not based in the US. Out of interest, how can you live (and presumably
work) there with a tax ID without being in the country legally -- is this
never verified?

------
lightblade
Well, I know this is not really helping but this movie described a very
similar situation to yours. May it ease your pain a little:
[http://movies.netflix.com/Movie/The_Proposal/70112727?trkid=...](http://movies.netflix.com/Movie/The_Proposal/70112727?trkid=438403#height2000)

------
petervandijck
<http://www.mario-ramos.com/> is a good immigration laywer, you may have more
luck with him than with your current one.

------
amourgh
You can do a "gray" Marriage=pay someone to marry you for a year or two untill
you get your card and you can choose to divorce or continue with the
person(like a contract).

~~~
Anechoic
My brother married a woman from South America (legitimately out of love). When
she applied for citizenship, both she and my brother were required to sign
forms (under pains and penalties of perjury) that the marriage was kosher,
BCIS required references from friends and family (again, under pains and
penalties of perjury) attesting to the legitimacy of the marriage, they had to
deal with unannounced visits and constantly having to check in. It wasn't
until the second kid came along that the govt finally seemed to accept the
marriage as real.

Given the hoops my brother and sister-and-law had to go through, I think
faking a marriage is a really bad idea unless the fake-spouse is willing to
put themselves and close friends/family into big trouble if the sham marriage
gets exposed.

------
wmboy
Can you get to another country and reside there while working remotely?
37Signals is just one company that has proved remote workers is possible.

------
Mz
To those folks who keep saying "get married", a couple of questions, out of
curiosity:

A) Did you even read the entire post? He states his lawyer has already
recommended that and he has already ruled it out.

B) Do you realize this is a public forum and (assuming you are in the US) you
can be potentially tracked down and theoretically charged for encouraging
someone to break the law?

\------

To the OP: I have tried to do some googling. Law is not my strong point and
I'm not finding what I want, but I am curious if there is a means to seek
amnesty based on the fact that you were brought here as a child, so had no
real choice in immigrating illegally. If I find something to point you to, I
will post it. If not, please consider researching that angle as well.

Best of luck.

~~~
lutorm
There is no amnesty, unless congress passes another amnesty act (fat chance,
given the current climate). As someone said, the Dream Act would do what you
are thinking, but that's not likely to pass either.

~~~
Mz
I'm not so sure about that: My mother was given a "hardship exception" to
immigrate here. And the googling I have done so far indicates that
historically we tended to give amnesty to _individuals_ rather than whole
groups and this is what was different about the 1986 Amnesty Act (Immigration
Reform and Control Act (IRCA)). So while there may be no wholesale amnesty
available as an easy out, that doesn't mean there are no exceptions being
made. If I were in this situation, I would be asking a) when and why they make
such exceptions? and b) is there any hope I can get such an exception? If so,
how?

So I think they do sometimes make exceptions, on an individual basis. That is
the angle I would look into.

------
nolite
stop programming.. go meet a woman. NOW!

------
lightblade
Have you tried Kickstarter to help you to fund it?

------
shareme
You need to talk to some Angel/VCs as they face these set of issues of
founders and may have answers the normal HN crowd may not..

Okay people that are approachable, I would say go local if there are VC/Angels
in your geographical area.

It may be that one of the VC/Angels that you contact may be able to help you
reach the $250k Startup Visa Act precondition.

Sorry that I do not have more in-depth answers.

------
avstraliitski
I'm guessing your male. If you were female I'd help you out! Bureaucracy sux.
Good luck.

------
HelloBeautiful
If you're in a state that allows gay marriage and have a non-married co-
founder with citizenship ...

I'd just keep talking with immigration layers, until someone gives me a way
out.

~~~
rit
Whether you are being serious or not, the Federal Government does not
recognize Same Sex marriage (Defense of Marriage Act, I believe) and thus, it
cannot be used for immigration purposes.

Not to mention, seeing that the OP is already in hot water with being here
illegally, recommending he defraud the government with a fake marriage can
_only_ serve to make things worse. Especially as when they see his prior
status they are going to look very, very closely at the legitimacy of the
marriage.

------
petervandijck
Pay someone to marry you for the papers. Divorce afterwards.

~~~
lightblade
That is not an option. Fraudulent marriage is punishable by fine and
imprisonment in the US. Your USCIS interviewer will go to GREAT length to
check whether your marriage is legit. By GREAT length, I mean they will come
to your home at 4 AM in the morning, knock on your door, just to see the 2 of
you having sex.

~~~
RinseRepeat
Pretty sure you aren't serious but anyway this isn't true. Speaking from
personal experience and the experience of my best friend who also went through
this process recently.

They do ask for evidence but it's generally nothing like the movies unless you
get targeted for special enforcement or your name gets picked out of a hat.

