
Don't sell Technology to Indian Businesses - architgupta
http://blog.architgupta.com/dont-sell-technology-to-indians-businesses-or
======
xxcode
The article was a bit difficult to follow, perhaps due to liberal use of
'Indian' English and missing prepositions. Sorry, I know this is meta - I
would like to hear what you have to say and would likely find it interesting.
I would _appreciate_ if you were to revise your writing so that it is more
readable. I believe you are capable of it.

~~~
architgupta
I am the author. Pardon the poor English. Can you give me a couple of example
phrases? I'll maybe try to re-write.

Another person also complained about the writing, so an opportunity to learn
here. :)

[Edit: I see feedback below. I'll take another pass soon.]

~~~
johnx123-up
I can't understand about your clearTax site. Is it similar to <http://80g.in/>
?

~~~
architgupta
ClearTax is for filing your Income Tax Returns. Its like TurboTax for India.

------
kamaal
This is going to be a rant...

I am an Indian! Currently staying in Bangalore.

Indians don't buy Technology? This is BS, right?

Indians pay for technology all the time. From the poorest to richest. Just
because they don't click on paypal and the money doesn't land in your start
up's account it doesn't mean Indians don't pay up. The average levels of
Piracy in India will more or less be the same as they are around the world.

Indians pay for things that bring them value. Not just because you built
something. And it is you who built it.So first understand what value you bring
common Indian masses.

I know of Auto drivers and cab drivers who get costly metering and taxi
dispatch systems fitted to their vehicles. And they are really poor people.
They are paying for technology, because it brings value to them. Do you know
how many people use mobiles phones in India? Even the poorest people might be
earning less than $1 a day(I know many beggars who carry mobile phones) use
mobile phones in India, and they pay their bills.

I know Temples, Churches, Mosques use scrolling displays outside their
compounds for various announcements. The displays survive in tough weather.
And they sell. They bought it because it adds value to them.

I know ordinary middle class people, buy handy glucometers( for diabetes/blood
sugar level testing) and Nebulizers and Sphygmomanometers(To check their blood
pressure levels), Glucometers made by Accecheck. Why do they buy this
technology? Because it brings value to them.

Millions of middle class Indians use solar technology and rain water
harvesting systems. And they pay for it, you know why? Because it brings value
to them.

I can go on and on... Citing examples.

India is like every other country and Indians are like people from any other
nation.

People pay up when they see some value in the product. So any time you accuse
Indians of not paying up. Ask your self a simple question.

 _What value does my service/product bring to the people_

If you can't come up with a good answer to this question. Really the problem
is with your product strategy.

Not Indians. Or India as a whole.

PS:

In this case 'Tax filing' software/means is worth dime for a dozen in this
country.

EDIT : To all people who are downvoting this, Truth is bitter. An MVC site
which has a thousand clones or which doesn't bring any value is not bound to
succeed.

Seriously ask your self what value you bring to the world or _why should
people buy from you_.

~~~
asto
I am also an Indian, also from Bangalore.

India and other poor nations account for a larger share of piracy worldwide.
Here's a somewhat old study but it still serves to prove my point.
[http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-
soft...](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-
piracy-rate)

Almost all the auto drivers here use the meters that come with the auto. Newer
4-stroke autos have better mileage so auto drivers or auto lending firms buy
them and they come with digital meters by default so more autos are starting
to get them. I don't know about taxies because I don't use them.

 _Most_ temples, churches and mosques here don't.

Buying a glucometer saves a trip to the doctor just for that. It is a
reduction of cost and there is no cheaper way to do it. In the case of
software however, piracy or a cheaper option is almost always available.

Of course you can go on and on but you have proven nothing. You have chosen to
speak of a minority who do understand the value of technology and pay for it.
I can also show you people/businesses who use FOSS or legally purchased
software in Bangalore. Would that mean piracy doesn't exist here or that it is
not prevalent? There is always the outlier class in any society. You cannot
depend on them for a viable business in most cases.

~~~
kamaal
Your post only proves my point(That people build things without knowing what
value they add). Do you know how much metering for an auto costs? Do you know
how much Taxi Dispatch system for a taxi costs? And neither the meter or the
TDS comes with the Auto/Taxi. They have to pay for it from their pockets. I
know this as a my father is a Taxi Driver.

Do you know how much booking for taxis happens through emails/SMS and other
online systems. The number is enormous. Those who sell, sell. Those who whine,
whine.

Coming to your point about Glucometers, again, people buy them because they
need them regularly. So they pay for value. Why shouldn't they? I know at
least 3 homes around me, and I live deep in Bangalore, not in BTM and
Jayanagar types where only rich people live. People in those 3 homes have
Nebulizers. They are ordinary middle class people who earn less than me.

Your problem is simple, _You refuse to learn from failures_. And you believe
the problem is with people around not with you. If you have the same attitude
you will never succeed in business. Business requires learning a lot from
feedback.

Piracy is a global problem, Not just in India.

Your assumption that Piracy is an Indian monopoly is ridiculous to say at the
least.

You say viable business cannot be set up in India. From where do you think
crores of Indians derive their livelihood from? Have you heard of Jamshedpur
an entire city set up by Tata's?

Again as I said, those who know how to do buisiness in India do it by
_building value_. Those who can't just whine.

Lastly code is not the answer to all the problems in world/India. And business
success doesn't depend on code alone. It depends on understanding people's
problems and solving them. People pay if there is value, not just because its
built.

~~~
asto
[http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/karnataka/article4475.ec...](http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/karnataka/article4475.ece)
Post that announcement in 2009, new autos have had only new meters. If the
notification is issued the day after a new auto is bought, it will be a loss
of money to the auto owner. The notification was issued in Jan this year if
I'm not wrong and it is now compulsory to have digital meters. The reason why
it took from 2009-12 was because of auto-drivers resisting the change. Of
course, all this because a majority of auto drivers are assholes whose only
aim in life is to fleece passengers. It amazes me that of all people, you are
bringing up auto-drivers as an example of technological change.

~~~
kamaal
Auto drivers are no bigger assholes than us software engineers, to be really
telling frankly.

If a software engineer can hop jobs every year without adding even 6 months of
value to a company and he submits false rent receipts to save taxes(Which is
stealing or fleecing as your describe the national treasury by the way)or when
he reads online forums in the day time instead of working(which is fleecing
the company by the way) etc.

We should not point fingers at other occupations and pass sweeping
generalizations on other people.

This is the classic Indian mentality. We expect the poor to remain poor. An
Auto driver is not supposed to earn well. The son of a cab driver like me is
not supposed to be an engineer and earning well. And if we work hard and
succeed we are assumed to be crossing our bounds. And the traditional Indian
crowd can't stand this.

But my point stands true right.

The digital meters sell because there is a demand, and there is a value to it.

Business demands value.

~~~
pm90
_We should not point fingers at other occupations and pass sweeping
generalizations on other people._

You ask him to refrain from making generalizations, but YOU are the one that
is making a lot of them. Nobody said that they don't want you to succeed
because you are the son of a taxi driver, there was no need to even mention it
in an anonymous online forum. It is YOU who is trying to get sympathy from
this fact. Please try to understand what you are doing.

I must say that I agree with asto; you have not countered his assertions,
skirted but not tackled his points. It is an undeniable fact that piracy is
rampant in India. Whether it is "good or bad for the country" is debatable,
but the fact that it exists is not.

~~~
kamaal
Oh!

True,

By me asking to build business which add value I did a big mistake, but him by
pointing the _whole nation_ to be of people who are pirates has done a very
great thing.

By the way bashing India to get moments of glory has become fashionable for
many Indians these days.

They do it all the time, to get visas abroad or settle down abroad.

If there is so much problem here, why don't you guys leave this place and go
and settle down in your promised land.

~~~
pm90
I'm going to ignore your potshots, and focus on the few points that are worth
commenting on. _By me asking to build business which add value I did a big
mistake, but him by pointing the whole nation to be of people who are pirates
has done a very great thing_ Firstly, he did not assert that the whole nation
is pirates. He said most are involved in piracy, which is pretty much the
truth. Again, you fail to address the points which asto made, instead you are
just complaining and generalizing about anyone who speaks against you. The
only way to improve a problem is by acknowledging it first. Denying a problem
exists/ brushing off with flimsy reasons will just aggravate it.

~~~
kamaal
I will end this too.

But I am not able to understand what problem young entrepreneurs actually
have.

I know for sure that as a nation we are honest people. We pay for stuff as we
always have been.

The problem is simple, India is a different nation and you need to build stuff
that solves peoples problem and they will buy those solutions from you.

For a moment I can't imagine why anybody would blame the whole nation just
because one start up failed. Or a certain part of the nation pirated
something, which by the way happens around the globe. Most of such people are
basically wannabe westerners and for whatever reason they just want to run
from here. May be they think its honey and milk outside. Or may be they just
want to go and settle down abroad.

All that is understandable and we Indians have no problems with that, but
don't defame a whole nation to justify your actions. Writing books, blog posts
and publicly ridiculing a whole nation just so that you can get your moments
of glory outside.

My advice to any person starting a start up in India would be simple and
straight. Understand what problems people have and solve them, give them a
good pricing and people will buy it.

This is what big successes of India have been doing. This is what Tata's and
Ambani's did, This is what NRN's and Premji's or the modern era did. They gave
value to people at affordable prices. They built industries and sectors that
has fueled India's growth for a decades now.

None of them wanted hit and run success with a tiny 3 web page MVC website and
then expected the entire nation to make them millionaires regardless of
whether the product they sold was useful to them. They faced numerous failure
but they did go on and blame the whole nation for that. They looked internally
and solved their problems.

Focus and build stuff that matters. Give a good pricing. The market here is
huge. People will buy.

~~~
pm90
The assertion being argued was whether Indians are quick to adopt technology.
They certainly are not, and it has to do with our low-trust society. By that I
mean that Indians are wary of being conned by scams, online or offline.
(Notice that I am referring only to those technologies/businesses that involve
monetary transactions with Indian companies. Of course, the whole nation has
embraced the likes of facebook and orkut). Have you noticed that most of the
companies that you mentioned get most of their business through exports and
not through the domestic market? Why didn't facebook or google start in India?
The tiny 3 web page MVC websites you mention are as important as any Infosys
(in fact, it might be even more important as they promote creativity while a
company like infosys or wipro stifles it). Nobody doubts the success of Ambani
or Tata, but they are a one in a million company. If it was easier do do
business, we might have had many more. Also, I'm not going to argue with you
anymore on the extent of piracy in India. To do so is...laughable. Nobody buys
genuine windows for their systems. Nobody buys original Games/Movies.

------
asto
Completely agree with the "don't want to pay for software" bit. Heck, they
don't want to pay for ANYTHING. Pirated windows, pirated accounting software,
cheapass website because they look for the cheapest deal... the list is
endless.

~~~
free
I am not so sure. I see two problems in the current situation here.

1\. Pricing. The cost of most software is comparable to its cost in U.S. A
windows 7 professional edition costs around 8000 bucks, which I think is
pretty high. I am sure most people would gladly pay if they thought it was
reasonable. Same with books.

2\. Convenience. Most people are wary of using their credit cards or debit
cards online. For physical goods, there is Cash On Delivery which is working
out pretty well for a lot of companies. Not sure what the alternative is for
software thought.

For example, look at Flipkart. They are killing it.

Also could not make much out of the article.

~~~
mehtapratiroop
Flipkart & other ecomm portals are not offering any technology. They are using
a fairly simple website to let people order everyday goods.

The concept of ecommerce is pretty old in itself. The fact that Indian
consumers have woken up so late to it re-emphasizes that Indians resist
technological intervention. It is not as if internet penetration, credit card
penetration and logistics infrastructure has changed radically in the past
year in India. It is the only the investment scenario that has changed.
Archit's article in some sense calls for more such investments in other
technology and technology enabled products.

~~~
free
The mention of Flipkart was for parents argument that Indians don't want to
pay for anything and would pirate things it they can. Flipkart sells books and
music successfully which a lot of people here don't seem to be willing to pay
for.

>>The fact that Indian consumers have woken up so late to it re-emphasizes
that Indians resist technological intervention

Maybe I see things wrong but I don't think Indians resist technology. Its that
the technology got here late. Also, its just that it is a different market and
different factors at play here.

~~~
movingahead
I know this is early days for Flipkart's music service, but are there any
numbers available on how customers have responded to it.

~~~
free
[http://www.pluggd.in/forum/discussion/524/flipkart-flyte-
get...](http://www.pluggd.in/forum/discussion/524/flipkart-flyte-
getting-8000-downloads-including-both-single-tracks-and-albums-daily).

Its just the beginning. I am sure that its going to increase. A lot.

------
sayeed
As already mentioned, the writing style makes it hard to get to the heart of
the matter.

For me, it reads like a cathartic post from a stressed out entrepreneur. Needs
to be 'understood' rather than being taken literally.

The gist of the post can be summarized so:

Is it a good idea to start a software products company in India? No, it isn't,
because VCs will never fund it and you will never make it by bootstrapping.
Even if you do, "fast-followers" will clone your business and get the benefit.
Heads you loose, tails they win.

Then we have all the obstacles one has to grapple with. Not least are the
unreasonable, uncouth, undiscerning customers who want to free-ride as much as
possible.

The future will be better but now it's so bleak... :(

\----

Being a Bangalore based entrepreneur focused on Indian enterprises and small
businesses (co-founder, Greytip), I can relate to the frustrations but also
strongly disagree on many counts.

Yes, there may not be a market for Online Tax Filing due to all the factors
Archit lists out, but, it could also be because there are already many players
in the domain. Moreover, it is a once a year business opportunity so it's a
tougher nut to crack.

As for customers willingness to pay for software, it is all about value for
money. A $5 per user pricing, although reasonable in the developed world, will
not cut ice in India. A 50 cents per user pricing may yet work.

Which brings us to the key challenges to doing business in India: how do you
keep costs low and still make profits, break-even before you break out of
runway, and not compromise on quality and service.

Some days you put your head down and get going, some days you silently scream
in the dark, and on some days you just rant... ;)

~~~
architgupta
Good one Sayeed. :-)

It was a rant. $5 pricing once a year. If that's outside of the affordability
range, my business will be in trouble. Most people pay though, so I am not too
worried.

VC funded business is fine IMO, just be prepared if you create a market, fast
followers are coming. True for most companies across the world I
suppose(Expedia, Kayak, Orbitz). Hence, I wrote about brand building, while
you create value.

I think the takeaway is:

"the key challenges to doing business in India: how do you keep costs low and
still make profits, break-even before you break out of runway, and not
compromise on quality and service."

I think this is true for across the world. I mean everyone loves a deal! So
maybe create a business for the richer part of the world.

Mostly food for thought. I like what GreyTip is doing.

------
wiradikusuma
/s/Indian/Indonesian and I just written an article about Indonesia.

