

IE6 users and status-conscious creative directors - mwsherman
http://clipperhouse.com/blog/post/IE6-users-and-status-conscious-creative-directors.aspx

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mcav
The message unnecessarily belittles IE6 users.

However, IE6 will only go away if we actively discourage its use. Do not go
out of your way to support it. Do not allow it to suck more time and energy
out of you. IE6 will continue to survive as long as its remaining users have
no need to upgrade. When sites work, users don't see a problem.

Industries and corporations who use IE6 should _not_ receive mercy: As it ages
it will only become more of a burden. Corporations will one day eventually
realize that the rest of the world has moved on, and they _must_ invest time
and energy into modernizing their own systems.

When the _computers that run IE6_ die, it will be too late.

Leave the poor, withered IE6 on the side of the road and let's move on. But
don't kick it, beat it, and spit in its face, as the original "upgrade
message" in this link did.

~~~
smokinn
While I agree that it unnecessarily belittles any specific IE6 user that
visits the site, I don't think his message itself is unnecessary.

We need the whole range of messages before IT departments get a clue. We need
the very small, one time top banners with a small message, we need the sites
that just plain break horribly, we need the sites that have a polite nagging
message on every page and we need the sites that are just plain rude.

Until we have them all, until it's clear that every type of web site is sick
of IE6, until these messages are very common, the inertia will not be
overcome.

------
mwsherman
I'm the writer of the post above and a web dev. Generally, I don't test or
develop for IE6 anymore. It's down below 10% share and that will keep falling
now that the Win 7 upgrade cycle is on.

So I understand the animus towards IE6 as a technology, but not toward its
users.

The truth is, an organization on IE6 will become uncompetitive in the same way
that an organization using green screen terminals will become uncompetitive.
Old stuff gets flushed out eventually.

~~~
protomyth
Depends on what industry they are in. I don't think a browser choice really
matters to quite a lot of companies.

------
qeorge
IE6 sucks, blah blah, I get it. I still don't think there's any excuse for a
web designer to ship a product that doesn't work with IE6. If its a truly huge
web app, OK. But for most sites it shouldn't take a good dev more than an hour
to fix any IE6 bugs.

Instead, I take an Ellis Island approach: come as you are. If you want to buy
my product, I'm going make sure that happens, and no IE6 bug is going to get
in the way.

~~~
cia_plant
You're either setting the bar way too high for 'a good dev', or you're just
unaware of how painful and bizarre IE6 bugs can be. Honestly, why would web
devs just arbitrarily hate IE6 if it only took an hour to fix all the bugs for
an entire website? You're positing a level of laziness and spite on the part
of web devs which is just absurd.

~~~
qeorge
Didn't mean to offend, and maybe I am setting the bar to high. I'm certainly
aware of how bizarre IE6's bugs can be, but that doesn't make them especially
difficult to fix.

Take for example the double float margin bug, which is undoubtedly one of the
weirdest and most common. I definitely spent an entire afternoon on that one
the first time I encountered it, and I wanted to throw my machine out the
window, but now I know to add display:inline to anything I float that also has
a margin. Its inane, but its not a big deal.

My point is that after a year or so, you've encountered all the annoying IE6
bugs, and so fixing them is easy. I don't think that's a particularly high
bar.

 _Honestly, why would web devs just arbitrarily hate IE6 if it only took an
hour to fix all the bugs for an entire website?_

Its still an hour we shouldn't have to be spending, and I'm not saying I don't
hate IE6. Hating IE6 is fine, and when a group of web guys gets together for a
beer, its a great subject of ridicule. But its _our problem_ , not our
client's, and not our end user's.

------
alabut
The article references this survey at digg:

<http://blog.digg.com/?p=878>

" _This goes directly to why most folks use IE6: they don’t have a choice.
Three out of four IE6 users on Digg said they can’t upgrade due to some
technical or workplace reason. Giving them a message saying, 'Hey! Upgrade!'
in this case is not only pointless; it’s sadistic._ "

~~~
joechung
3 out of 4 is not 4 out of 4 so it isn't totally pointless.

------
whiskyagogo
Am I the only one who read it as funny satire? For some reason I don't read
the author as being serious about his animosity towards IE6 users. It's just
taking the typical "you're using an old browser and should upgrade" message
several steps further for the sake of humor.

------
protomyth
A lot of people don't get to choose what tools they can use at their place of
employment. They are at the mercy of the IT department and inertia. Does it
really help the world to add one more snarky comment on their day?

~~~
mquander
The IT department's job is to enable the company's users to do their job
effectively, efficiently, and securely. If that job involves visiting non-
company-controlled websites, then they'll be well-served by having a modern
browser.

The comment described in the post here is definitely overly insulting, but in
general, making the users feel pain is one way to give the people in charge
incentive to change.

(Edit: I agree that the insults are pointless, so I don't think we're really
arguing about anything substantiative. That said, I'm sure this designer guy
couldn't give a crap whether it's pointless or not.)

~~~
bmj
One might think that simply not having content/functionality for IE6 users
would be enough incentive. As another poster said, insulting the user isn't
likely to prompt a change in software.

~~~
thwarted
Often times, IE6 users don't know that they are missing anything because they
are on IE6 and have nothing to compare to. A message of "this feature is not
supported on your browser" or, preferably, "this feature requires a modern
browser with support for HTML X and CSS Y" would go a long way to
communicating that, in a factual, non-confrontational way. I think the latter
message is better because it gives those who would use the website a factual
rationale to take to their IT departments as to why an upgrade would be good,
rather than letting the IT department dismiss the website creators as
IE6-hating.

