
Japanese Toilets: The Future Called 30 Years Ago - ranebo
http://blog.hopefullyuseful.com/blog/2014/04/04/the-future-called-30-years-ago/
======
enko
After using the toilet, do you wash your hands, or just wipe them?

You've just demonstrated why washing toilets are superior. I cannot understand
our misplaced, hollow pride in not adopting something which simply works
better. I've even heard some especially crazy people try to say the japanese
toilets are "perverted" \- the hold tradition has on some people is just
insane.

Japanese toilets are simply better. For some bizarre reason we've resisted
adopting them here. It boggles the mind.

~~~
gtaylor
I gave in and ordered a bidet a year ago. Not wanting to commit to some of the
expensive options, I opted for the $25 Astor Bidet:

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/)

Installation involved adding a T-adapter to my sink's cold water line. The
whole setup takes about 5-10 minutes if you know what you're doing, or about
30 if you don't. Even if you know nothing about plumbing, you can install this
thing with some patience (and probably in well under an hour).

I've been very happy overall. There are lots of similar bidets for varying
prices, but the core functionality can be had for $25. I haven't felt the
desire to spend any more, this thing just works.

We go through a lot less toilet paper, though we still use some for the
drying. This may be too much information, but I do feel subjectively much
cleaner. When we travel somewhere without a bidet, it's definitely on the edge
of my mind that I miss my setup at home.

I do get weird looks when we have company, but who cares. Continue smearing
poop on your butts, heathens.

~~~
colin_jack
"Continue smearing poop on your butts, heathens."

It is odd that whilst we use specially designed water jets and cleaning
products to bathe our approach to bottom hygiene is just to keep scrubbing
till there is nothing visible left.

Anyway looks like a good device, thanks for the link.

~~~
rainedin
Not having foot taps is another huge bug bear of mine. Especially in public
places.

------
srean
I find health faucets
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower)
quite effective, except that one time it went terribly wrong.

These are essentially telephone showers installed next to the toilet. You
switch them on using a valve/trigger and then manually direct the fire.
Simple, cheap and no fuss.

This little guy, however, turned out to be a closet fire hose. It pretty much
went from 0 to 1000 gallons per sec in an instant and just wouldn't let up,
the valve was stuck. The extension cord was twisting and coiling around like
crazy with the released pressure, the shower head was going at full blast in
my hand, initially directed at my rear, it was continuously pushing my hand
away from anything that I was trying to point it to, it give me a visceral
understanding of how jet engines work.

Working out a sequence of operations in my head to get out of such a situation
while caught in a compromised and inflexible position, with only one hand
free, was quite a challenge. I am not quite sure if I should be thankful that
it wasnt autonomously powered and directed.

My first Japanese toilet experience happened @ Google (I was interning there
at that time). When the water touched the derriere, it made me flinch and jump
with surprise, as I wasnt quite sure what to expect, this was several years
ago and Japanese toilets were still an unfamiliar opbject to me. And it really
tickles the shit out of you ! (no pun intended) I guess there are ways to
choose between a laminar and degrees of non laminar flow (all those controls
must be for something), I would expect the former to be somewhat less flinch
inducing.

------
veidr
This is one of those things that long-time expats that live in Japan often
take back with them when they leave. Another is the practice of removing your
(utterly filthy, inevitably) outdoor shoes when you enter the house.

I read Shogun as a kid (great book, for a little kid) and going back home to
the USA and using the toilet there always reminds me of the scenes where the
European sailors that shipwrecked in Japan sit around scratching their fleas
and scoffing at the Japs' grotesque habit of bathing every day... _gross_

~~~
kiba
Never met any Americans/westerners/etc who wear shoes in the house. They all
walk barefoot.

~~~
veidr
Yes, the overwhelming majority of Americans in the USA do wear shoes in the
house. I myself did it too, until age 19 (when I moved to Japan).

[http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=5177409](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=5177409)

[http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/18ekqf/as_a_canad...](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/18ekqf/as_a_canadian_do_americans_really_wear_their/)

[http://www.quora.com/Do-real-Americans-wear-shoes-indoors-
as...](http://www.quora.com/Do-real-Americans-wear-shoes-indoors-as-portrayed-
in-sitcom-TV-shows)

[https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101011193926A...](https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101011193926AA37Ox3)

~~~
slyall
It is actually a really strange thing. There seems to be pockets of people in
various countries that either wear shoes inside or not but can't imagine doing
the opposite and assumes everybody in their city/state/country is like them.

Interesting point: You also never see people on TV shows and movies taking
their shoes off when they go to a house but I imagine this might be mainly due
to the show not wanting to break up the action.

~~~
pedrosorio
The question is: do you often see people taking their shoes off when they go
to a house on Japanese TV shows and movies?

~~~
veidr
Yes, you do. It would be weird enough not to that it would jar the suspension
of disbelief.

------
ragle
When I first came to Thailand, I was appalled when one of my friends told me
the pistol nozzle (like we use in the US for doing dishes) next to every Thai
toilet[1] was for spraying yourself after using the bathroom.

This was disgusting to me at first.

Echoing a few other comments, I feel like a bidet is something you have to
experience yourself before you trust it. Once you do though, I think you are
forever changed.

On my last trip back to the states, I remember feeling perpetually disgusted
that all I had to clean myself with was paper. It's disgusting - barbaric
even... you're just smearing waste all over yourself.

If you don't feel like spending the money to install a Japanese bidet, a Thai
"bum gun" might be a more wallet-friendly option.

[1] - [http://thatluckyboy.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/05/bum_gun_t...](http://thatluckyboy.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/05/bum_gun_tribute1.jpg)

~~~
tricolon
Those are ubiquitous in Northern Europe as well—yes, including all public
bathrooms.

~~~
ardacinar
Are you sure about Northern Europe? I live in Sweden and I haven't encountered
anything like that here. (They are common in Finland, though)

------
rikacomet
One thing I haven't really understood is why exactly is a Indian toilet seat
seen as inferior to the English toilet seat.

\- True that the English seat occupies less space, but its adoption has not
always been based on space savings.

\- True that sitting appears more gentleman like, rather than sitting half
subtended in air, but hey who is watching?

\- True that elderly find the english version easier to use because of the
supporting nature of the seat, but its not a hard rule. A hybrid of both
(Anglo-Indian) seat is more suited to them, and ailing patients.

\- The Indian version is more hygienic, as no part of your body directly
touches any part of the seat. Besides superior genital cleanliness over time
due to wider leg positions.

\- The Indian version is decisively easier to clean/maintain compared to the
English version.

\- Moreover the Indian version, is more suited to over-weight people than a
English version.

\- And relatively, due to its production in labor intensive market such as
India/China, the Indian version is cost-efficient, suited for developing
nations, who still have a fairly large population that needs proper sanitation
structures.

~~~
enscr
\- Plus squatting is a better posture for properly emptying yourself.

Although sitting for longer than 5 minutes is painful and gets worse with age.

~~~
rikacomet
Yeah, that drawback can be seen as a JUST motivation for not taking your time
in the toilet always. Even 5 minutes saved one time, is equal to 10-15 minutes
everyday. 70-100 minutes a week and around 60-90 hours a year to put that into
perspective.

~~~
sjtrny
I find my time on the toilet quite productive, it's usually when I have Eureka
moments.

~~~
rikacomet
I figured so, occasionally it is the same for me. But I didn't say everyone
should be saving time.

------
wting
Another thing that gets overlooked is the built-in faucet at the top to rinse
off hands such that every tank of water gets used twice:

[http://demenglog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/toilet-
seat-...](http://demenglog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/toilet-seat-
topcimg0688--large--my-japan-blog-pwtuo0c4.jpg)

~~~
hudibras
And _another_ thing that gets overlooked is that the toilet is always in a
separate room from the rest of the bathroom (washbasin and tub). It seems
weird at first that you have to go down the hall into a phonebooth-sized
compartment to do your business. But then you go back to visit family in
America and can't stop noticing that you poop 3 feet away from where you brush
your teeth...

~~~
silencio
I actually have that in my apartment in SF. It may be because it's a three
bedroom place with only one bath though. It's nice because someone can use the
toilet while the shower is in use, but then you have to walk to the kitchen to
wash your hands....wish someone had the foresight to add the faucet-top toilet
;)

~~~
stbtrax
why not add it yourself?

------
rahimnathwani
If you're thinking about buying one of these, I can highly recommend the Toto
S300e
([http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IJ2LM4](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IJ2LM4))
or, if you live in Asia, the TCF4722CS
([http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=23047236820](http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=23047236820)).

These 'washlet' toilet seats can be retro-fitted to normal toilets. It's
really easy as long as the flush-water inlet to your toilet has a standard
fitting. Oh, and assuming you have a suitable power socket near the toilet.
The manual recommends a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) socket.

~~~
wting
There are also cheaper compromises that only replace the toilet lid instead of
the entire toilet and without requiring a hot water line. I bought this
version last year for $250 but it's $350 now:

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XNW1Q0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XNW1Q0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B005XNW1Q0&linkCode=as2&tag=0xgfeujusf-20)

~~~
rahimnathwani
"There are also cheaper compromises that only replace the toilet lid instead
of the entire toilet and without requiring a hot water line."

Both the models I recommended are of this type (they are just a seat, and they
don't require a hot water line).

I considered the model you recommended. The main reason I went for the higher-
priced models is that they are higher-power, and can heat the incoming water
in real-time. The more inexpensive Toto models are lower power, but compensate
by having a built-in tank to store water. I guessed (but did not verify) that,
on occasion, the tank could run out of hot water before I was done.

Does the tank on the B100 always have enough hot water for you?

~~~
wting
> Does the tank on the B100 always have enough hot water for you?

Yup, it was enough for my pregnant wife when she was staying at home.

------
impendia
I remember my first visit to a Japanese toilet. I noticed all the buttons
after I finished my business and stood up.

 _Wow! What do these do?_ I bent over the toilet bowl and pushed a button at
random...

~~~
w00kie
All Japanese models have a pressure sensor built into the seat so that no
water comes out unless someone is actually sitting on the toilet.

~~~
Aloisius
That was decidedly not the case when I first visited Japan in 2001. The jet of
water that hit the door to the bathroom was quite wet by the time I figured
out how to shut the toilet off.

~~~
prawn
A bidet in a London hotel around 2003 managed to hit me in the eye. I was a
clear metre from the bowl. A mistake you make once and then not again!

------
harichinnan
I was about to sleep but definitely had to add my contribution to bum washing.
Most Indian toilets have a water faucet next to your seat. You always wash
with water using your left hand(Right one is reserved for more auspicious
occasions like eating food or shaking hands). I still remember the horror of
my first trip to US and finding that you have to use rough sheets of paper to
essentially scrath it off. But on the flip side, toilets in India are always
damp and dirty with filthy cess pools of mold and .... God help you if you
ever have to use a public toilet in India.

------
CGudapati
You will probably hate me for giving some graphic details but I had never used
Toilet paper for the first 21 years of my life.(I am 22 BTW). I didn't even
use a bidet. Just my left hand and water. I know this might be considered very
disgusting but it is very common from where I am.

~~~
MarkTee
I'm curious: Did you first try using toilet paper in another country/region,
or it something that has recently been introduced to where you grew up?

~~~
CGudapati
I still don't use toilet paper. I used one when I had access to it(in a
hotel). I knew toilet paper existed as once when I saw it in movies or read
about it.

~~~
Omniusaspirer
Can I inquire as to where you grew up? I've genuinely never heard of anyone
using just their hand, but I suppose it makes sense for poorer parts of the
world. (no offense intended whatsoever)

~~~
CGudapati
India. No offense taken. FWIW, I can afford toilet paper. I just don't use it
as I am habituated to using my hand. In case you are wondering, I can
guarantee that the number of people who use their hand to clean their bottoms
is much more than the combined population of USA.

------
Theodores
_Sorry to sound 'negative', but..._

I don't know if this is the way the future is going to pan out - water is an
increasingly scarce resource and, as it is, we waste a gallon or so of water
to lift one's leavings up and over the u-bend.

Of all people Bill Gates is probably the expert on what toilets will really be
like in the future, allegedly water, toilets, sanitation and health is
something he is most interested in.

Personally, although I am not into 'standing desks' I am into 'standing
toilets', as in the humble urinal. One's aim is easier and there is no seat to
remember to put down for the next user. Less water is wasted. I would want one
at home so as to avoid 'female complaints' regarding the state of things.
Ideally the outflow from the adjacent sink would keep it clean so water
wastage really would be minimal. It would be in a room of its own, a very
small room with no need for anyone female to ever enter it.

I recently replaced an extractor fan in a bathroom. I thought that a quiet fan
would be preferable and I was disappointed with the noise made. However, then
I realised the real purpose of the fan, it is to make noise to disguise the
sound of one leaving one's leavings. I believe that the Japanese toilets have
some of this functionality too. Can anyone confirm that?

~~~
Taylorious
I suppose it depends on where you live. If you live in Arizona it might end up
being an issue due to the energy cost of processing the water for reuse.
However, if you live in Chicago you aren't going to have a shortage of water
anytime soon.

I don't really get these water shortage scares people talk about. I can see
how it is an issue in remote/poor areas around the world, but a country like
the US has nothing to worry about. If fresh water reserves get low we can
always desalinate seawater. There are engineering challenges and energy costs
to do that, but both are solvable issues. No one is going to die from thirst.

~~~
kissickas
I think a large part of the problem is that it's a "tragedy of the commons"
situation. We won't see a huge investment in better recycling and
desalinization until it's absolutely required, which would mean that we've
already destroyed some aquifers permanently, in some places causing entire
aquifers to become unrecoverable [0].

No one is going to die from thirst? Maybe. But a lot of the water loss is in
the food-producing middle of the country. People are already starving in the
US, and increased food prices will only exacerbate the situation. [1]

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer#Subsidence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer#Subsidence)
(sections subsidence, saltwater intrusion, and salination)

[1]
[https://water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html](https://water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html)

------
smokey_the_bear
In the spirit of too much information that is this thread. I was given a
lavette bottle after giving birth, and I've continued using it quite often.

[http://www.amazon.com/Lavette-Bottle-Perineal-Irrigation-
DYN...](http://www.amazon.com/Lavette-Bottle-Perineal-Irrigation-
DYND70125H/dp/B000VSXSX2/)

It's an even cheaper alternative to the cold water attachment, it's portable,
and you can fill it with warm water.

~~~
AjithAntony
This seems interesting. It looks like a regular sports bottle. The comments on
that item suggest there are more and smaller holes than a single large
opening, for a better flow for this application. Is that the only difference?

How does one use it? Is there a straw inside that draws from the bottom of the
bottle? Do you need to position it upright, or upside down?

These two seem more natural to use, If you didn't have your bottle already,
would one of these be more interesting?

[http://www.amazon.com/Hygienna-Solo-Portable-Cleaning-
Soluti...](http://www.amazon.com/Hygienna-Solo-Portable-Cleaning-
Solution/dp/B00CDPCHLU/) [http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Bidet-
BB-20-Portable/dp/B004IW5IT...](http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Bidet-
BB-20-Portable/dp/B004IW5ITO)

~~~
smokey_the_bear
The number, shape, and size of holes seem well suited for the bottle's
purpose. There's no straw, but you can hold it upright or upside down as long
as it's not close to empty.

I think I would buy the same one I have over one of those. For this
application, I think I value simplicity.

Women might have slightly different requirements for this than men too.

------
bane
Japanese (and increasingly Korean) toilets are amazing. I love visiting my in-
laws and just using their toilets and feeling unbelievably civilized.

My wife, refuses to get one, or even the fancy seat attachments
because...tbh...they're freaking expensive. I can basically refit all the
toilets in my house for less than the discount price for a single seat...and
that's not including the cost of the electrician to put a power source near
just one of my toilets.

There's also lots of research in her home country that women shouldn't use the
bidets in these toilets for various reasons particular to their anatomy.

To compare, a Glacier Bay 2-piece high efficiency dual flush elongated toilet
is <$100 at my local home depot.

Toto Washlet S350e seat with heated seat and warm water bidet is $1,700. I
frequently see cheaper Korean versions at my local Asian Market for $800-1200.
I saw one at Costco for $650 the other day.

If they want to penetrate the market, they need to drop the price
significantly, corner the market, then start cranking the price up faster than
inflation.

------
Natsu
In case anyone was curious, ビデ is read as "bidet" (i.e. squirt water up your
ass).

This among the many reasons why it's helpful to at least learn to read kana
before visiting, as it makes a lot of things easier--there are an awful lot of
English words written in kana that you can decipher (well, French in this
particular case, but you get the point I hope).

~~~
ranebo
Actually bidet button is usually for women, I wouldn't advise pressing it
unless you are one, or you will get a blast of water significantly forward of
the desired target. おしり(oshiri) is the button thats useful to both sexes.

------
jonahx
Maybe the hold traditional toilets have on us is another example of the
triumph of "worse is better."

Whatever else you want to say about them, they are closer to the UNIX
tradition than Japanese toilets.

------
drderidder
Japanese baths are great, too - you can wash your body before getting into the
tub, so you're not stewing in your own filth.

~~~
dagurp
In Iceland you are required to wash before entering a swimming pool. you're
likely to be stopped by an employee if you don't

------
chx
Toto makes _travel washlets_. Imagining travel without one is like trying to
remember how we used to code before Google and Stackoverflow: yes we did it,
for sure, but I just can't fathom how. It's also a relatively cheap and easy
way to get acquianted with this nice facet of civilization. There are other
travel washlets, not made by Toto, skip those. Search eBay for toto travel
washlet, less than $100 shipped.

I had a particularly bad day at a London client onsite and out of sheer
desperation Googled for travel washlet (I have one normal at home and was
missing it badly), not that I had any idea how you would even construct one
but lo and behold, there it is.

~~~
silencio
I would imagine peri bottles (or close enough, any kind of squeeze bottle)
would do something similar in a pinch. I've only heard girlfriends with kids
rave about them since it's usually only used after pregnancy, but (to be a bit
TMI) pre-IUD years when I had periods, travel squeeze bottles totally saved
the day for when wet wipes felt inadequate and I couldn't easily shower.

------
rikthevik
Make sure you flush before you hit the "blow hot air" button. :/

------
frozenport
I wonder what the effect on overall hygiene is? I wash my hands after every
bowl movement, in total (shower, etc) I wash them every 5 hours. Will people
now wash their hands less?

------
PavlovsCat
The future? What about the past?

Washing your butt so it's clean = yeah, that's pretty cool.

Eating the right food (and being lucky to have good digestion) so that
normally the paper you wipe with comes up white = priceless.

Of course you'll have to wash your hands, but still, we're not hardwired to
make a mess every time we defecate. Maybe you could say that's excessive smoke
indicating the engine isn't running right. Japanese toilets aren't a fix,
they're a workaround.

------
ekianjo
By the way "bidet" is a french word in the first place and it has nothing to
do with washing your arse :) Bidets are small bathtubs-shaped vessels where
you actually wash your feet. The reason they existed is because in the past
people didn't wash their whole body every single day, and instead they cleaned
at least the most dirty / odorant parts of their bodies this way, more often.

~~~
mkempe
Actually, the "bidet" is an invention from the early 1700s that was
specifically designed to wash intimate parts. The etymology of the word
indicates that the bidet is something one rides, by analogy with a small
horse.

[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bidet](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bidet)
[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_(meuble)](http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_\(meuble\))

------
ChuckMcM
FWIW this was one of the 'tour questions' on Google which had (at least when I
was there) several bathrooms equipped with washlets. It really is a nice
thing, and one of the engineers put a WattsUp meter on one to see if it was
wasting power (answer quite economical). Of course in California using water
to wash yourself in a drought is probably the wrong thing to do ...

------
LVB
I tried, liked and missed Japanese toilets. I certainly wasn't going to be
installing a $1000 Toto in my house, but I waited too long to take a chance on
a cheap bidet. For <$50 you can get a bidet on Amazon which, though little
more than a valve and a spout, works pretty well.

~~~
gtaylor
$25 and has been good enough for me. No warm water line, but you can spend $20
more for one that has that if you care.

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/)

------
ntaso
Questions, I couldn't find an answer to:

How do you make sure that the water doesn't merely distribute your feces all
over your butt?

How do women prevent that feces get sprayed onto or even into their vagina,
since the water seems to be coming from the rear side of the toilet?

------
gggggggg
On reading that it seems like you use paper still. I didnt realise this. Do
you use the normal paper before or after the water? Seems like after water and
drying to me, but potentially much less?

Also, does it do away with the need for women wiping after a pee?

------
theli
Never been to Japan, but from description its the same type of toilets they
have in South Korea. Yeah, feel much cleaner, I wonder how is it hard to get
same setup in US

------
drak0n1c
This guy uses the bidet before wiping? Whenever I'm in Japan I wipe before
bidet, that way at least the initial blast of water doesn't spread too much
gunk.

------
masahiro
The most important thing to make Japanese office life happy is to provide a
latest Japanese toilets. They do care about it a lot!

------
grifpete
I have one. I'll never go back.

------
nkozyra
"disinterested"

>:(

