
I Was Just Told “You would not have made it through the weekend” - jnickhughes
http://nickhughesblog.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/i-was-just-told-you-would-not-have-made-it-through-the-weekend/
======
bryne
This exact scenario happened to me a few years back. I had just jumped onto a
team in the middle of an enormous shift in product and put the nagging, on-
and-off pain on the back burner with some aspirin and made a dentist's
appointment a few days out.

After I woke up on Wednesday with the worst headache of my life looking just
like that first photo, I went to my oral surgeon, who sent me in for emergency
surgery immediately. I spent a night in the ICU and three days recovering. He
explained that I had developed a serious abscess that had spilled into my
palate and threatened to close my windpipe completely, and that if I hadn't
come in I probably wouldn't have made it to the weekend.

It was an extremely sobering look at my priorities and good luck. I was young,
and health insurance hadn't been a priority - had I been bootstrapping or
freelancing instead of a part of a team with the good sense to get a group
health insurance policy, I might have dug myself into about $40,000 in debt,
or worse - hesitated to go to the doctor's for even longer.

Don't fuck around with your health. I dodged a bullet. It's tempting to push
these responsibilities off like any other, but like other commentors said, it
runs directly contrary to your duty to be healthy and present for your team.
Dead entrepreneurs make no products.

~~~
gacba
I'll add one more similar story to this.

My friend, who is a serial entrepreneur/CTO/founder, was on his first big
company back in the late 90s. He was brought in by a friend/consulting partner
and was very jazzed to be working on an exciting predictive analytics
application to detect churn in mobile subscribers.

So much so, that he lived the company. He ate poorly, didn't exercise, was
grossly overweight, drank excessively and worked obsessively. His gallbladder
couldn't take it and nearly burst. It was so swollen by the time he went to
the doctor, they were scared it would go any minute.

He had emergency surgery and could have easily died. That was as big as wakeup
call as they get. He got the message loud and clear, lost weight, started
exercising, ate better. Got much healthier and recovered shortly thereafter.

Living for the startup is stupid. As byrne said, "Dead entrepreneurs make no
products".

~~~
jrockway
I'll continue adding to these stories :)

I had an uncle who was just a normal guy, not overweight, didn't drink
excessively, etc. He complained of occasional stomach pain, but didn't feel
like going to the doctor. Eventually it got worse and he saw a doctor. Turns
out he had stage 4 cancer and was dead in two weeks.

Ignoring your body rarely ends well.

------
steve8918
Throughout my life, my parents have drilled into me:

    
    
       If you lose your money, you lose a little.
       If you lose your friends, you lose a lot.
       If you lose your health, you lose everything.
    

No one is going to write you a beautiful eulogy if you collapse at work
because you were so loyal to your paymasters. If you're feeling sick, then you
need to take a break and get it looked at, end of story.

------
rubyrescue
_As an entrepreneur still trying to make it I don’t the extra cash for
insurance right now so I just pushed it off thinking it would take care of
itself._ -

...and that's why i can't support candidates who want to repeal universal
healthcare in the US, most of whom are Republicans, and ironically, in their
opposition to reasonable universal healthcare are adopting a policy that is
incredibly anti-small-business.

~~~
aiscott
Healthcare is a scarce resource. You can hardly legislate it into existence.
All "universal" healthcare does is trade price for waiting in line.

~~~
jrmg
As someone form a country with a working, good, universal health care system,
the notion that many Americans have that it somehow can't work in reality is
very puzzling to me. How can that be true when it plainly does work in many
places?

The argument that a private insurance based system could be better, fairer, or
more efficient can be made (although not if you hold up the current US system
as a positive example...), but any argument that it's the only thing that will
work is frankly ludicrous.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Define "does work".

Healthcare in the US, even in its incredibly broken state, still "does work".
We can compare anecdotes all day long, but that tells us nothing, anecdotes
are not data.

~~~
jrmg
I believe it's generally known to be true that health care in the UK, where I
live now (I have also lived in the USA in the past), whether measured by % of
GDP or by monetary cost, is much cheaper per capita than health care in the
USA[1]. Life expectancy, probably a good measure of the efficacy of a health
care system, is very close, perhaps with the UK having a small lead, if
anything[2].

If we were to allow anecdotes, I'd also say (and I find this to be a good
thing) that people in the UK don't avoid going to the dentist or doctor
because it's too expensive. I'm sure that there must be studies that show this
to be true.

Even if we're not allowing the anecdotal argument, however, if you're prepared
to say that the system in the USA 'does work', you're surely prepared to say
that the British system also works? Personally, I have a hard time not
believing that, since it seems to produce comparable, if not better outcomes,
for less cost, it's the better of the two systems.

Note that I'm /not/ arguing at all that a private health insurance system
could not be devised that also worked as well - perhaps better. I'm also not
arguing that any public system will be perfect. To argue that a public system
/can't work/ though is, as I said, ludicrous.

[1]
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=health+care+cost+per+ca...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=health+care+cost+per+capita+USA+vs+UK)
[2]
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=life+expectancy+USA+vs+...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=life+expectancy+USA+vs+UK)

~~~
carbocation
Until we have a cure for the metabolic syndrome, I'd say that comparison of
health care quality by life expectancy doesn't actually do what you think it
does. America is incredibly obese, and this is a lifestyle choice that makes
comparisons of the quality of care quite difficult.

~~~
jrmg
Fair point, but can you find another statistic that /would/ show that public
healthcare doesn't work?

~~~
carbocation
I wouldn't even try to make the argument that public healthcare doesn't work.
Comparing across systems _and_ cultures (again, obese vs the rest of the
world) is tough to do well. I was thinking perhaps some measure of in-hospital
mortality would be useful, but even that would be confounded. Perhaps the
Massachusetts model might work for in-US comparison to other states, but MA is
not really comparable to single payer systems in the rest of the world.

It's a really interesting topic and I wish I weren't at work so I could
brainstorm more with you about how to get a clean comparison.

------
goo
After almost dying in Thailand to an infected scrape, I recommend keeping a
round of standard antibiotics accessible.

I never expecting that the bumps near the scrape would progress to intense
pain, waves of nausea, and blackness underneath the skin, or that those
symptoms left me maybe a day to live had I not taken antibiotics supplied by a
fellow traveller.

A year later, I got an infected gum/tooth situation and the dentist was closed
for the weekend. Although I could have freaked out and figured out an
emergency situation and a different dentist (that I may not have been covered
for), I just looked up the reasonable dosage for a tooth infection and treated
myself accordingly. It went away overnight, and I followed up with my dentist
that week.

Note that I do not recommend self medication for anything out of the ordinary
or with possible interaction effects. But for infected flesh, which is a
common and dangerous medical issue, I think knowledgable self-administered use
of antibiotics can be as valuable as a similar use of bandages or CPR.

~~~
foobarbazetc
Or, you go to the hospital. That's not "freaking out", that's common sense.

Self-administration is dangerous.

~~~
epochwolf
When I went to Mexico almost a decade ago to do some missionary work, my
doctor gave my dad and I each a full round of antibiotics with instructions to
start taking them immediately if we started feeling sick.

~~~
nopassrecover
Which is a reckless attitude for a doctor that leads to treatment resistant
tuberculosis.

~~~
dedward
yeH, better to let peopledoing missionary work, far from any reasonable
healthcare just die, is that it?

Overuse of antibiotics is a global problem, for sure, but once you get into
thelower latitudes of the planet, infections get a hell of a lot more
dangerous. more bacteria, more types, and they move fast.

Most people spending significant time in thetropics learneventually that small
infections or even just cuts you would ignoreup north require mich more
caution, attention, and respect if you want to stay out of the hospital, or,
you know, just not die.

------
Wazza
I had open heart surgery just over 4 years ago, from a bacteria infection that
is typically caused 50% of the time by bad teeth. This bacteria, literally ate
my hart valve (they have no blood so cannot defend themselves). As a
consequence I now have a titanium prosthetic Aortic heart valve. In a very
quiet room, if you stand beside me, you can hear it click every time my heart
beats. I had a fever for 4 weeks lost 25 pounds of weight. Serious stuff.
Teeth infections can cause Endocarditis (heat valve deterioration)or in some
cases meningitis.

When you get told by the heart surgeon that there's a % chance you can die in
surgery, you start to evaluate differently. Whether you believe vin things
beyond death, or not, I believe we are here to learn, develop, experience and
make a contribution to humanity. Ultimately the way we treat ourselves is tied
with how we treat others. respect yourself, respect others...

~~~
kpennell
Really nice last couple of sentences there, thanks.

------
vm
Focusing on my health has been my best productivity boost.

For a few months, I didn't exercise and ate lots of cheap, unhealthy food,
thinking that I was too busy and could work more with that stuff. The result?
Great progress with work and horribly diminishing productivity. My overall
output increased but I got far less done every hour. And I felt like shit all
the time.

So last week I started to eat healthy foods and exercise. Nothing fancy - I
just stick to simple meals that I know are good for me, so it doesn't consume
extra time. And I keep workouts to 20 minutes every other day (not much at
all).

It's worked wonders. I have far more energy now and have been getting 20-30%
more done per day, probably at higher quality.

~~~
stretchwithme
Taking time for yourself also gives your brain a break. How often does a
solution to a problem or a new idea present itself when you simply take a
break?

------
ZephyrP
Doesn't this strike anyone as, I don't know, maybe a little bit melodramatic?
Not trying to discount or in any way disrespect the author or the people that
read him, but I think these kind of posts, as much of a guilty pleasure as it
may be to waste the little bits you have of your life begging the question on
various sophomoric questions, are indicative of the declining quality of HN as
the most social or active people fail to upvote genuinely compelling technical
news and insights and instead let demagogic writings slide that range from The
Enquirer to Readers Digest for smart people (or at least for people that like
to pretend to be smart people, as the case may be).

~~~
carbocation
Ludwig's angina is life-threatening (not that one can reliably diagnose it
from a scant blog post). Whether or not it had progressed that far, tooth
abscesses are serious business because their sequelae are nasty.

The connection between the illness and the post's overall message is perhaps
strained, and I could see not wanting to see the message on HN.

------
mgkimsal
Similarly, I had a cracked tooth in Jan 2011 (or maybe a bit earlier) that
started to hurt in jan/feb. i put off dealing with - just taking aspirin and
such. it got worse. i finally got to a dentist and they said I needed a root
canal procedure and a cap. The nerve was exposed and that's what was hurting
so much. Cost? $2400. I paid for their x-rays, said 'thanks', then got a
second price from someone down the road. That was ~$1400 (plus the $100+ for
the initial x-rays) so that was about $1500. Not pocket change for me, but
still saved $1k with a couple phone calls.

I wanted to be knocked out for the whole thing, but I had no one to drive me
home at the time, so they wouldn't let me be knocked out - I had to be awake.
In lieu of being sedated, I amused myself with some pics and videos:

[https://picasaweb.google.com/mgkimsal/RootCanalVisit1?authus...](https://picasaweb.google.com/mgkimsal/RootCanalVisit1?authuser=0&feat=directlink)

------
windexh8er
Having a significant other who happens to be a dentist this is more
commonplace than most probably think. When pain in your mouth is approaching
the 6-10 range you're playing with borrowed time at that point. It's far
cheaper, pain-free and healthier to:

* Invest in a great tooth brush.

* See your dentist at least once a year - and there are a lot of bad dentists (just as there are bad doctors) out there, so do some homework and avoid the "chop shops" of the dental world.

* Eat healthy. We juice every day (once or twice) and greens like parsley, kale and spinach do a fantastic job of promoting a healthy mouth - the parsley does a great job of controlling bad-breath-bacteria as well.

* Avoid amalgam - ask your dentist to do composites. The amalgam filings require much more tooth structure to be removed compared to the same filing using composite. Plus, no mercury (amalgams have been banned all over the world already, but for some reason the ADA still has their head shoved in ass state side).

* Floss and scrape your tongue.

Pain free. :)

~~~
kijin
_Avoid amalgam - ask your dentist to do composites._

I had a fairly large composite filling in one of my molars, and it would never
last more than a year because of the extreme pressures that molars are
routinely subjected to. Composites are getting better, but they're still
weaker than amalgam. Also, when a composite filling fails, a microscopic gap
emerges between the filling and the tooth, letting bacteria seep in and cause
cavities deep inside the tooth that goes undetected for a long time.

A while ago, the dentist asked me whether I'd like to try amalgam, so I said
yes after doing a bit of research myself. I haven't had it long enough to see
if it actually lasts longer, but the doc tells me a well-placed amalgam
filling can last a lifetime.

~~~
windexh8er
While that was generally true it's generally not the case anymore. This isn't
a knock on older dentists but the fact is - you're good at what you practice.
Younger dentists (and better/more progressive dentists) do composites without
the downside you're sharing. If a composite is structured correctly it should
last over 10 years I've been told. Sure, an amalgam may last your lifetime,
but I for one will never allow mercury to be in my mouth long term. Mercury
changes significantly to insignificant amounts of heat (i.e. thermometer) -
and while the ADA will tell you it's "sealed" it's considered a toxic
substance, which has been disputed by many researchers. This is why amalgam is
banned in most developed countries.

I asked about the failing of a composite as you've described and was told that
what you stated is not true. Any filing can fail and leak as described, this
is generally a result of bad dentistry or trauma to the filing that impacted
it's seating and is why you have annual X-rays done. ANY filing can fail
regardless of compound leading to shadowing as described.

So you have a choice. Mercury or safer materials that, when used properly, are
a safer / healthier alternative.

In closing - keep in mind one thing: not every doctor is as skilled or
cognizant as the next. They're humans as well and there are fantastic doctors
and there are greedy and poor skilled doctors. The fact is you should
understand your doctor's core competency and skills as best you can.
Unfortunately most doctors know who the bad doctors are in regions, but the
status quo is to not throw any other doctor under the bus. The consumer loses
because it's hard to get at that information. If in doubt, get a second
opinion - if there's a big derivation in prognosis, get a third. It's your
health at stake.

~~~
kijin
Fair points. Surely a lot depends on the dentist's skills. Several dentists
have been in my mouth, and some of them were definitely better than others.

However,

 _amalgam is banned in most developed countries_

This is only true if you think that developed countries == Scandinavia. Which,
admittedly, is a reasonable view to take.

------
AznHisoka
I've been working on a startup and on a day job for the past 8 months. In the
past month or 2, I've experienced a couple of fevers, and beginning to get
anxiety/panic attacks, and feeling sore all over from sitting all day at work
+ home. A few months ago, I had a severe panic attack on the train, where it
felt like my brain cells were fighting each other. I thought I was going to
have a heart attack.

I think I'm very close to reaching a breaking point, and am not sure how long
this can last. But the thing is.. I know I will feel miserable if I have to
work at a day job for the rest of my life, so that makes me want to work even
HARDER at my own gig so that that never happens.

It's a truly vicious cycle.. I work harder, get less sleep, become more
grouchy/irritated at work, which makes me motivated work even HARDER when I
get home.. which makes more sleepy at work, more irritated.. repeat...

~~~
steve8918
You need to take a break. You are putting way too much pressure on yourself,
and your body can no longer take it. Don't take it as a sign of weakness. You
don't have to give up on your goals, but definitely take a 3 month break and
get your life back together. You're breaking apart at the seams, you need to
take a mental break otherwise you're seriously headed for a bad fall.

------
DanielBMarkham
You don't want to screw around with infected/impacted teeth. One of the
leading causes of death up until recently was tooth-related. You'd get a
toothache, a few days later you'd be dead. There's a reason why in all those
old westerns people submitted to having their teeth pulled out with pliers
without any anesthesia. It was a hundred times better to lose a tooth than
die. You get a toothache -- even out on the prairie where the only "doctor" is
your friend Gus who dropped out of second grade, and Gus is going to be
yanking out your teeth. It was just common sense.

As a side note, this will probably sound amazing to many readers, but working
both for myself and my startup my family went for over a decade without health
insurance. Didn't seem like that big of a deal.

Of course we had one rule: if you're really sick, you go to the doctor, no
questions asked. In the states they had to see you, and you generally got
great service driving up somewhere, even if you didn't have money. The trick
was finding out where to go. Over those years, we ran up medical debt at
times, yes, but nowhere near the amount we would have paid in health insurance
premiums. (Which really shouldn't be a surprise. Basic math, there. We were in
a low-risk group.) We had several kids, dental operations, gall bladders
removed, vaccinations, ENT surgery -- all kinds of things. And everybody got
all the medical attention they needed.

It was simply risk management. Yes, things could have turned out differently
and we could have ended up hundreds of thousands in debt. But the numbers were
on our side. We made the decision just like the insurance companies do --
based on demographic risk. And if you're not making much money you can really
only owe so much anyway. After 20 thousand or so, it might as well be 20
million -- you're never going to be able to pay it back. And if you owed 20
million, you'd still be alive and kicking and able to do all the things you
love. That beats the alternative. Our downside was limited by the
practicalities of medical debt collection.

It was a good decision, and I'd make it again.

Sorry for the digression. The point in telling the story was that even if you
don't have insurance, working in a startup, slaving over the product 80 hours
a week, fresh on a team, meeting with VCs -- none of that matters. All those
other stresses in your life are silly by comparison. Learn to recognize when
you're really sick and then immediately get help.

~~~
davidw
So basically you planned to spread the costs of any really big debts to
society at large...

~~~
DLWormwood
Which is basically what insurance does anyway...

~~~
glhaynes
True enough. But if you're not paying for insurance, you're not paying into
that system. It's not hard to see that as free-loading. (Note: I am NOT
advocating that "free-loaders" should be denied medical care. But it does seem
like it'd be preferable to not let people freeload.)

~~~
davidw
Or you could spread the risk pool to the entire population, and pay for the
insurance through taxes, or compulsory insurance, or something along those
lines. No bankruptcies, lower overall costs, and a hell of a lot less stress,
and less incentive for people with families / conditions to stay wedded to one
employer.

~~~
glhaynes
Absolutely, that's just what I mean. Either we should let people die/go
bankrupt if they end up in medical trouble and don't have insurance and can't
pay (which is obviously morally and societally undesirable and doesn't seem to
make practical sense anyway) or we should ensure that everybody is part of the
system. I don't really see an alternative and this seems fundamental to the US
health care debate.

------
uurayan
We bootstrapped our company as well and did not get (couldn't afford) health
insurance for the founders until about 1.5 years in. By that time I was too
embarrassed to go to the dentist and put it off for another 2 years. Worst
decision ever. By the time I did go last year, it had been over 5 years since
my last dental visit. I needed a root canal and I'm still getting my cavities
I piled up in that time period filled (though I'm almost done).

Our insurance plan is not cheap, (we live in Hawaii and pay about $500/month
each) but its essential. You worry about so many things when choosing the
startup life, your health shouldn't be another thing on your mind.

------
jlangenauer
I think there's a broader point to be made here: don't deal with issues by
ignoring them. This is just as true for technological, social or finanical
issues as it is with your health.

Grab the bull by the horns, deal with it, and you'll almost always come out
better.

------
davyjones
I cannot stress this enough: do not indulge in self medication. I am talking
about ingesting pills.

Pain is a warning sign that something is wrong. Even something dull that lasts
a long time is not good. Get it checked by a doctor.

~~~
ctdonath
Bump that.

Pain is a message. A serious message. Don't make it go away, FIX THE PROBLEM.
Only take painkillers when you KNOW what the problem is AND ARE FIXING IT.

After gallbladder removal, they gave me a big bottle of Vicodin and sent me
home. Figuring that much of that strong stuff meant I should expect pain, I
took it. Other indicators later I went back to the ER, realizing the pain was
telling me something was very wrong. They didn't let me eat for two weeks
waiting for the problem to heal.

------
neilk
Before the paranoia starts - I just deleted a comment that I made about a
current YC startup where I know of a founder who's ignoring some health
issues.

I think it's better if I reach YC people privately about it.

------
miles_matthias
I'd be interested to know if the OP has a significant other. I know that there
are challenges to being an entrepreneur with a SO, but I think one of the big
benefits of having an SO is that they look after your health. I know if I were
in this situation my fiancee would have kicked my butt and dragged me to the
dentist's office.

Have there been any essays out there comparing being an entrepreneur with and
without a SO? I'd love to read them.

------
JuanCBenavides
Neglect your health and your start-up company will outlive you! If your body
gives you any type of warning sign, it's imperative that you take care of it!
For your company to remain healthy, you need to be healthy. Eat well,
exercise, and do your physical exams annually. Your start-up company will
thank you for it.

------
knewter
Yeah, scary stuff. Last year I had constant, nagging pain in my stomach
muscles (always felt like I'd worked out my abs hard the night before) for a
few months. I finally started having pain so severe that I could not just take
painkillers and suffer through. I go see a doctor, and they diagnose me with
pancreatitis and place me in the hospital immediately.

Apparently my pancreas had not been particularly useful for a few months, as
they thought I had diabetes (untrue) based on my A1C. Ended up spending 7 of
the following 8 weeks either hospitalized or in my bed with a feeding tube in.
Fun stuff (note: sarcasm).

Anyway, I waited so long to see a doctor because running a business takes all
of your time. If I'd been an employee, wouldn't have even questioned taking a
day off to go see one. So meh, have to learn to do better / realize I'm still
a person.

------
jyothi
I think moments like this define what should take priority. It is a wake up
call but we all push it anyway don't we.

I think this case is the most extreme where it is directly about one's health
and is very critical. You have to be alive and kicking to do what you want.

However what about the more grey areas like a loved one being sick, not
getting time to see your child grow up, or even pushing the possibility of
having a child or marriage - these are as irreversible. Just that these are a
sacrifice of a feeling vs sacrifice of self. But you never know if the
feelings are bigger than self.

------
agentgt
He must really like himself to put two portrait pictures of himself in a
single blog post. I'm not saying its bad taste. I would do it too if I was
better looking :)

------
realschool
Similar thing happened to me, I was out of the country and was having serious
tooth pains, before I returned I made an appointment and went the first day I
was back. The dentist said 'Your lucky you came, this infection is pretty bad
and almost spread to your brain'... scary shit, especially seeing as I was in
another country for the previous 4 month and wouldn't have been able to get
dental work done there.

------
ctdonath
Due to life being overwhelming for a while (moved twice, two new jobs, new
baby, etc.) I missed a cardiology appointment. At the next one, the new doctor
checked me out, he got oddly quiet and asked in a restrained tone "are you
sure you don't have any other symptoms?" Two major urgent surgeries later, he
admitted that question really meant "why are you still alive?"

Health first, guys.

------
ansible
OK, this apparently needs to be spelled out clearly to all you hipster founder
hacker types out there:

Pain is bad.

Yes, that is right, your body is trying to tell you that something is wrong.
Taking pain meds does not fix anything. Ignore it at your own peril, because
it is hard to found the next social media empire when you are dead.

------
prawn
@jnickhughes, dud link to Seconds in the article.

Business idea looks good though - I think you're onto something.

------
zeroboy
What's tragic is that there are some folks who can't afford to have badly
needed dental work done. Hard to believe, because the pain of my recent
toothache hit these incredible high notes that literally buckled my knees.

Great post. Thanks for reminding me of such a serious(ly overlooked) issue.

------
aneth
If anything ever reaches "11 out of 10 on the pain scale," your body is
probably telling you something.

For those of you in San Francisco or New York, I highly recommend One Medical
- you can make same day appointments and they are super efficient and timely.
It's a beacon of sanity in the absurdity of American medicine.

------
mhartl

                                     COUNT RUGEN
        Ah. Are you coming down into the pit? Westley's got his strength back. I'm
        starting him on the machine tonight. 
    
                                  PRINCE HUMPERDINCK
                             (sincerely)
        Tyrone, you know how much I love watching you work, but I've got my country's 
        500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder, and
        Guilder to frame for it. I'm swamped!
    
                                     COUNT RUGEN
        Get some rest. If you haven't got your health, then you haven't got anything.

~~~
mhartl
I've never been more surprised by downvotes on HN. This is a quote from a
beloved movie that expresses (in a lighthearted way) the exact point made in
the OP. I'm very disappointed by the result.

------
YuriNiyazov
Sorry to be so blunt, but you are not a very good founder/entrepreneur.

One of your major responsibilities is to your cofounders; it has been said
many times that starting a start-up is like being married to your cofounders.
We wouldn't hesitate to condemn a husband who was so negligent towards his own
health that he left a widow with unpaid bills behind; under that same logic,
no one who makes an idol out of, as you call it, "the all out pursuit for your
dream" and is negligent towards their health can be considered a responsible
teammate/businessman.

~~~
westbywest
Blame for the inability to afford any viable healthcare coverage can't be
pinned exclusively on the individual.

~~~
ctdonath
If you can't afford viable healthcare, get a job where you can. "Viable" isn't
_that_ expensive for anyone smart enough to frequent HN.

