
Improving Supercharger Availability - prostoalex
https://www.tesla.com/blog/improving-supercharger-availability
======
cperciva
This reminds me of the early history of street parking meters: They were
introduced not as a source of revenue, but rather because retail store owners
complained that their customers had nowhere to park. In one famous instance,
one side of a street was metered and the other not, and the merchants on "free
parking" side of the street immediately started lobbying to have meters
installed on their side too, since their potential customers were parking
where space was available... and not crossing the street.

People tend to think of metered street parking as being a matter of raising
revenue, but in terms of the revenue raised per square foot it's one of the
least profitable uses of real estate around; but even a nominal price works
wonders to encourage drivers to plan on vacating their parking spot promptly
once they're finished at the local stores.

~~~
CodeWriter23
I take it you don't have any $5/hour parking meters where you live.

~~~
tedunangst
If you don't want to pay $40 to park for 8 hours, park somewhere else. The
whole point is to prevent people from parking there for that long.

~~~
CodeWriter23
The point of my comment was to reply to this part of the parent comment: "but
in terms of the revenue raised per square foot it's one of the least
profitable uses of real estate around". At $60/day earned by the city for a
172 sq ft parking space, that translates to about $10.50 per sq ft per month,
rivaling most office buildings.

~~~
cperciva
Not at all. The parking spot may earn $10.50 per square foot per month, but
the office tower earns $10 or more per square foot _per floor_ per month.

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patman81
Elon just tweeted:"We are going to modify this so that people only pay a fee
if most bays are occupied. If the site is basically deserted, no problem to
park."

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/810135528783937537](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/810135528783937537)

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brianshaler
If the Supercharger stations are on private property, it seems like Tesla
could legally activate self-driving "Summon" functionality to move fully-
charged Teslas to nearby parking spaces. The only real challenge would be
safely unplugging the cable without damage to the car, which is relatively
trivial compared to the self-driving technology they've already built.

~~~
greglindahl
Tesla has a video of an automated "snake" cable on YouTube:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMM0lRfX6YI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMM0lRfX6YI)

~~~
ClassyJacket
That thing has always seemed so needlessly overcomplex to me. Not that I work
at Tesla, I'm sure there are reasons for it. But do they extend beyond
"because it looks cool"?

Surely a robotic arm with 3 joints would suffice?

~~~
Theodores
Ultimately the 'charging station' is going to become a socket on the wall that
is a beefier version of what you might plug a kettle into. Some people with
posh garages might have these fancy snake things but everyone else will be
getting some charging lead and plugging it in.

I can imagine it becoming a viable business to dig up a whole street and to
install sockets for every space on both sides of the road, for electricity to
be sold and parking charged for. We have seen this with the roads being dug up
for fibre broadband.

What I don't ever imagine is the street outside my house ever having snake
style robot arms every few yards, sockets I could imagine and I could imagine
some gold rush where the streets get dug up to cash in on some electric car
boom, even before electric cars are ubiquitous. With cable we had the streets
dug up for relatively few takers, but in time, with broadband, everyone became
dependent on that service.

~~~
the8472
you have to consider self-driving cars. the car might go somewhere without a
human to plug it in. that's where the snake may come into play.

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firloop
It looks like Tesla decided to take action on this issue because of a Tweet to
Elon. Pretty cool.

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/807787096727425024](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/807787096727425024)

~~~
greglindahl
Owners have been complaining about it for a long time, especially at certain
superchargers. Tesla is well aware (from their stats) where this problem
exists.

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niftich
The gas station analogy is contrived: a comparable car can be filled with half
a tank of liquid fuel in two or three minutes, while the Tesla website quotes
the supercharger charging it to half charge in 20 minutes.

It's certainly a lot more reasonable to leave the car unattended for 20
minutes while going about one's business, especially as supercharger stations
in urban and suburban areas tend to be near malls and retail districts. Nor is
it much fun running back to your car within five minutes, but it's clear that
this initiative is trying to encourage a behavior that's more considerate
towards others waiting to charge.

It also illustrates a different trend: that Teslas, more so than any previous
car, blur the line between outright ownership and a automobiles-(and
associated infrastructure)-as-a-Service -- (edit: even if they don't intend to
make a profit off this change).

~~~
notatoad
>Teslas, more so than any previous car, blur the line between outright
ownership and a automobiles-(and associated infrastructure)-as-a-Service

Not that i think you're wrong, but i'm not sure how you draw that conclusion
from this announcement. "you can't park your car forever at our charging
stations" hardy implies you don't really own the car.

~~~
niftich
The supercharger station is operated by Tesla. Unlike at a fuel pump, you
don't need to authenticate or submit payment; you can just plug it in, and the
_car_ knows who you are. If you overstay after your car is full, your car will
inform HQ, and they will bill you to your name.

You still own the car, of course. It's just a fascinating convergence of
perma-OnStar, of over-the-air firmware and software updates, and it's quite
different from the days when your relationship with the automaker effectively
(or could have) ended when you drove off the dealer's lot.

~~~
greglindahl
I don't see why this relates to ownership. Tesla owners own their cars
outright. Tesla owners up until now have free access to the Supercharger
network for long-distance travel. "Paying" at a Supercharger is very
convenient. How does that affect car ownership?

~~~
ajb
The formal legal status of ownership is not the same thing as the affordances
usually provided by it, and the latter is what people generally mean when they
talk about ownership.

------
Animats
That kills the concept that people will eat meals while charging. What will
restaurant operators who were going to allow Tesla to install charging points,
such as this chain[1], do about this?

[1] [http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12076172/tesla-
supercharge...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12076172/tesla-
superchargers-ruby-tuesday)

~~~
alkonaut
You'll have to move your car mid-meal or pay a small fee. Not quite the
commercial it once was but not a dealbreaker for me either.

Restaurants could perhaps strike deals with Tesla to allow customers waived
fees up to an hour or two?

~~~
ClassyJacket
I wouldn't quite call 24$ per hour a "small fee" for parking. If you're in a
restaurant for two hours after you've charged that's nearly fifty bucks just
for parking.

~~~
_ph_
If you plan to have 2-hour meals, you do not need to charge at a supercharger.
Thats what destination chargers are for. They are cheap enough, that every
parking lot can be equipped where there is demand.

------
_ph_
For all who think it is inconvenient to move their cars after the charging has
finished, think about how inconvenient it must be to stand with an empty
battery in line at a supercharger, because people are parking but not charging
there.

~~~
XorNot
Well also... When nearly every Tesla will have auto drive hardware...

~~~
Shivetya
but chargers are not automated and there is no "magsafe" equivalent or
similar. Perhaps if they added a charger accessible under the car? Might
easier than an articulated automatic arm but even that is no stretch for cars
that can navigate on their own if not be directed by the parking/charging lot

~~~
Baeocystin
They're working on it. Apparently their PM is Doctor Octopus.
[https://youtu.be/uMM0lRfX6YI](https://youtu.be/uMM0lRfX6YI)

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CodeWriter23
If they want to change behavior they should simply ban abusive users from the
network, starting with a 1 day ban and increasing it with each next offense.
There are people who will pay the $24/hr, when the cost:benefit analysis
favors that choice.

~~~
smoyer
Plus $24 per hour is a cheap parking spot in some cities. I might just park my
gas guzzler at a SuperCharger the next time I can't find a reasonable spot.

I'm assuming that the charger only knows you're parked there because it's
plugged in. What's to keep a Tesla owner from unplugging the charging cable
and leaving the car in the parking spot? Maybe they'll use some of the
wireless features in the car?

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hobarrera
If someone sells their Telsa car to a third party, and that third party gets
charged for parking there, would the initial owner get the bill? Does Tesla
require that you inform them of re-sales?

~~~
greglindahl
The bill is settled when you take your car in for service.

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flexie
Good. And then please expand the network to regions and countries they are not
in.

There is still not a single supercharger here in Bulgaria although the chart
has shown they would set up some 3-4 stations here by 2016.

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magoon
My local train station has electric charger spots. Teslas never charge, they
just use it for premium parking.

~~~
prostoalex
A Whole Foods nearby has free charging spots and is headlining a small
commercial plaza in the middle of a residential complex. Which basically means
that whoever grabs the spot around 7-8pm gets an overnight parking spot,
everybody else is welcome to get a quick charge next morning.

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lloyddobbler
A good move - especially as the supply of superchargers begins to struggle to
keep up with demand from all the new Model S & Model 3 owners over the next
few years.

(Yes, they've announced that supercharging will incur a fee for certain Model
3 owners who reserved after a certain time - but still.)

~~~
greglindahl
It's for ALL Model 3 buyers. You have to have configured your car to beat the
deadline.

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Nanite
Would be a golden opportunity for supercharger valet service, if the penalty
fees were a bit higher.

~~~
dghughes
Refer to them as a valence.

------
brownbat
Still surprised they didn't go with modular batteries that could be popped in
and out with a robot arm for <5 min recharges.

I guess you'd never know how cycle-worn your new battery would be...

~~~
niftich
An Israeli company in 2010 collaborated with Renault to develop a car with
swappable batteries [1] and they had automatic battery swapping station that
could fit new batteries in about a minute [2]. The venture went bust mostly
due to mismanagement and questions about the sustainability of its business
model due to the high infrastructure cost of building these stations.

Telsa entertained this concept and specifically designed the Model S with
floor-mounted batteries to enable easy swapping [3], but then abandoned the
idea.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Fluence_Z.E](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Fluence_Z.E).
[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place#Battery-
switching...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place#Battery-
switching_stations) [3] [http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/26/tesla-
model-s-50-000-ev-s...](http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/26/tesla-
model-s-50-000-ev-sedan-seats-seven-300-mile-range-0-6/)

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Hartge
If it continues to be an issue they can raise the price per minute
significantly and have it all go to charity, keeping a live tracker on how
much has gone to what charities.

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csomar
Since Tesla can auto-drive. Why not have the car auto-drive to the charger,
then the charger automatically recognize the Tesla outlet. Once it's done, the
car is unplugged and leaves the place.

Possible, no?

~~~
dzhiurgis
Or moves itself into adjacent parking spot once charger is unplugged.

~~~
prostoalex
For many of those locations it's easier said than done. Some are inside
popular malls, so by the time one finds a good spot on busy days, it might be
time for another recharge. Others are on controlled property (Qualcomm HQ in
San Diego) where guest parking spots are limited and access to a larger lot is
employee-only.

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tamalsaha001
So, people who can afford to drive a 100K car will really be bothered by a
$.40/min fee?

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Owning a Tesla doesn't mean you're rich. I know people who saved up, used tax
breaks, work bonuses, etc to bring one into affordability. Just because they
spent money on something they want doesn't mean they don't care about money.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Spending money on anything doesn't mean you are rich. If you have average
wealth and earning average income, saving for Tesla means years. At which
point it sounds like a poor decision, tho that is not the point.

p.s. I do disagree with OP. This is to deter everyone.

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static_noise
How did they come up with the figure of $0.40 per minute?

I can understand why they say "per Minute" since you think in seconds (which
would be too short), minutes (just about right) and hours (which would be too
long).

But that $0.40 charge per minute seems odd. Why not $1, why not $0.50, $0.25
or $0.10?

