
When a Therapist Puts Buddhism into Practice - nz
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/books/mark-epstein-advice-not-given.html
======
b6
I really sympathize with anyone who has looked into Buddhism and found it
puzzling or even annoying. I felt the same way for many years -- if the Buddha
had realized something really important, I'm listening, why not tell me what
he realized in a straightforward way?

Well, he would have, if that would work, but it doesn't. Concepts fly easily
between our minds but concepts don't seem to really change how our minds work.
What _does_ change how our minds work is direct experience. We lead ourselves
to the life-changing realizations by meditation.

Slowly, steadily, you train yourself to be calm, to be indistractable, to make
your mind very still, much stiller than it ever is even in sleep. Focusing on
the nature of experience itself, your mind directly experiences new
information about its own workings. And when it does, it has no choice but to
change itself, because it does not want to suffer. It causes itself to suffer
only because it does not see how its actions lead to suffering. When it does
see, it stops. It's freedom and peace by insight.

It starts making perfect sense to help others, to plant trees the shade of
which you will never enjoy yourself, etc. You see that it doesn't make sense
to fear death. It doesn't make sense to be angry at anyone. It's good stuff.

~~~
mping
Good solid advice right here. For me, personally I feel meditation is about
developing wisdom through concentration. The more wise you become, the more
sense the Buddha's instructions make. The more insights you get.

~~~
kstrauser
I was raised firmly Protestant. I've since decided that prayer _is_
meditation:

\- You typically enumerate ways where you've strayed from your ethical goals.
"I harmed so-and-so. I regret having done that."

\- You put yourself into the mindset of change. "I want to be a better person.
Help me recognize when I'm about to do something I know I shouldn't so that I
can steer away from it."

\- You open yourself to insight. "OK, I've said what I wanted to say. Now I'm
going to sit back and listen for an answer."

Although meditation is secular and prayer is explicitly religious, in my
experience they seem to follow identical processes. The main difference is
whether you intend to send your thoughts outward or to deal with them
yourself, but either way you're introspecting your own behavior and desires to
seek insights on how to deal with them.

~~~
Buttons840
They don't feel the same to me at all. While meditating I try to keep my mind
energized (not sleepy) while attempting to be aware of of the moment, my
breath, and the stray thoughts which although I'm aware of I let them go. My
mind is energized but quiet and without thoughts (if I'm successful, which I'm
often not, that's ok), a state few in this world spend much time in.

In contrast when I pray I'm often judging the past and planning the future.
The first 2 points you mentioned are specifically reinforcing these habits.
Meditation gives me a time to practice not constantly dwelling on the past or
the future, which if we're not careful we spend most of our lives doing;
meditation is merely a time to practice breaking this thought habit.

Not to say one is better than the other though. I just wanted to express my
opinion that meditation is much different than prayer according to my own
understanding. Granted there are a variety of definitions and understandings
of both words.

~~~
mping
My understanding is that there are different definitions, where generally
meditation is some sort of thought cultivation.

But the way I learned, you meditate in order to enter samadhi. Samadhi is a
Sanskrit word that means right concentration/proper concentration, and it is
what allows you to gain insight. It represents a class of meditative states
that you enter and can last for short time or long time, typically when you
leave samadhi you feel very good, very peaceful and blissful - you reduced
your thinking process thus your afflictions too. The higher your samadhi, the
better your concentration and wisdom. Without samadhi, meditation is just
analytical thought process.

So, if any practice (prayer included) is to be meditative it has to enable you
to enter samadhi IMHO. I believe that's why it has a different feel for you.

~~~
Buttons840
I know there are many ways to meditate and many differing thoughts about how
and why we should meditate. I don't know any of the religious beliefs behind
meditation. I believe what I've practiced is called mindfulness meditation.
What is the type of meditation you described called?

~~~
mping
Generally speaking, it is Buddhist meditation; Buddhist meditation texts talk
about dhyana (or jhana in Pali; where most of mindfulness sources come from)
which is another word for proper concentration. All Buddhist meditation is
about entering/achieving dhyana as far as I can tell, although I believe the
Chan meditation system puts more emphasis on this.

Of course, mindfulness meditation nowadays means many different things, but if
you go to the Buddhist sources you will find information about this.

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omgbananas
URL without the Google crap:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/books/mark-epstein-
advice...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/books/mark-epstein-advice-not-
given.html)

Can a mod that can fix this please?

~~~
jimhefferon
Yes, please. I try not to go to NYT articles (I just try to avoid the paywall
system) and this one fooled me.

~~~
vinceguidry
I broke down recently and bought a subscription. They are the only news outlet
I actually pay for. Their content is simply ubiquitous. I never thought it
would happen, but there it is.

What's ironic about all this is that what I want is cable-like bundling of
content. But while with news content I can be content with channel surfing,
with television content I want to consume individual shows.

Curious as to why this is.

~~~
drallison
In addition to the _NY Times_ , I believe that _The Washington Post_ is worthy
of a subscription. And while you are at it, sending some money to _The
Guardian_ seems to make sense. We all complain about the poor quality of the
news and the prevalence of fake news. If we want quality news with intelligent
reporting, we have to ensure that the news media that provide it are
adequately resourced and funded.

Of course, there are methods other than paywalls that could be used, but
paywalls are what we have. It would be nice if several news organizations were
to provide a single subscription with broad access. The current paywall
strategy nickel and dimes voracious readers.

~~~
vinceguidry
I may get there. Let's see what the next few years bring.

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marojejian
A lot of therapy (esp CBT) is incorporating Buddhist concepts. The most
established is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT), which is roughly Buddhism
+ CBT.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy)

And the concept of mindfulness is practically mainstream in therapy (as it is
becoming in culture overall).

Good trends, IMHO.

~~~
zardo
Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT) is also largely a sort of secular subset
of Bhuddism.

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simonebrunozzi
Frankly, I'm tired of this:

"Help Times journalists uncover the next big story. Get The Times from $9.99 a
month.​"

As much as NYT might have interesting content, lately there is a high amount
of these on HN.

