

X-37B plane can stay in space for years, power source? - MysticFear

&quot;The spacecraft are able to stay in orbit for months by using a solar array to generate power.&quot;<p>http:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.yahoo.com&#x2F;secretive-x-37b-military-space-plane-could-land-132030466.html<p>Why are the ground crew wearing protective gear if it just solar power? Seems like a radioactive power source with that type of protection.<p>Thoughts?
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gvb
It is extremely likely it is the hypergolic fuel used for the on-orbit
manoeuvring rockets. Hypergolic fuel is really nasty stuff.

It is likely the same rocket fuel (maybe the same rockets) as used by the
space shuttle (OMS).

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Orbital_Maneuveri...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Orbital_Maneuvering_System)

See also:

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Discovery#Decommi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Discovery#Decommissioning_and_display)

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergolic_propellant#Disadvant...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergolic_propellant#Disadvantages)

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dalke
That's chemical protective gear designed to protect the ground crew against
hydrazine or similarly hazardous vapors .

They were first developed in the 1960s for the Titan missiles, which use the
chemically nasty (but room temperature) nitrogen tetroxide and Aerozine 50.
See
[http://books.google.com/books?id=MdTZFu1fZ4AC&pg=PA186&lpg=P...](http://books.google.com/books?id=MdTZFu1fZ4AC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=SCAPE+suits+%28Self-
contained+atmospheric+protective+ensemble&source=bl&ots=qDQRlf_LXV&sig=7joCcfETaLVBPiNywk6yTG9p9uI&hl=sv&sa=X&ei=J7A6VLylGsXMyAOvpILwAg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=SCAPE%20suits%20%28Self-
contained%20atmospheric%20protective%20ensemble&f=false) for some of the
history.

Here you can see the suits in use at the end of the Space Shuttle STS-1
mission:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gYc...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gYcqvMGla24#t=1323)
along with explanation by both the news and NASA commentators.

[http://www.xcor.com/blog/category/thrusters/](http://www.xcor.com/blog/category/thrusters/)
and
[http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Engineering/Clean_Sp...](http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Engineering/Clean_Space/Considering_hydrazine-
free_satellite_propulsion) are pictures of people in similar suits, in order
to fuel spacecraft. I picked those to give commentary about how hazardous
hydrazine is, and that there's a push to use alternative fuels.

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Hoff
Months are not a particularly long duration for spacecraft, and solar arrays
are not at all unusual as power sources for spacecraft in the inner solar
system.

Some data on satellite lifetimes:

* [http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/Operations/GOES/status.html](http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/Operations/GOES/status.html)

* [http://noaasis.noaa.gov/NOAASIS/ml/life_expectancy.html](http://noaasis.noaa.gov/NOAASIS/ml/life_expectancy.html)

* [http://noaasis.noaa.gov/NOAASIS/pubs/life%20expectancy.pdf](http://noaasis.noaa.gov/NOAASIS/pubs/life%20expectancy.pdf) (2009)

As for the protective equipment being used in that Yahoo photo, that's
probably due to the use of hypergolic fuel:

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergolic_propellant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergolic_propellant)

Notice nearly-identical protective equipment being used in the Wikipedia
entry.

As for protective equipment for radioisotope thermoelectric generators, here's
an example from Cassini:

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_gen...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator)

This being the Internet, there's far more information on related topics
available:

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_\(satellite\))

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._RecSat_Big_Picture.jp...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._RecSat_Big_Picture.jpg)

Hmmm. Wonder what other and far more familiar satellite that KH-11 Kennan
looks like.

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HST-SM4.jpeg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HST-SM4.jpeg)

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jeroen
Clickable url

[http://news.yahoo.com/secretive-x-37b-military-space-
plane-c...](http://news.yahoo.com/secretive-x-37b-military-space-plane-could-
land-132030466.html)

------
JabavuAdams
The protective equipment is probably for fuel or oxidizer leaks.

This page: [http://www.airforce-
technology.com/projects/boeing-x37/](http://www.airforce-
technology.com/projects/boeing-x37/)

says that the vehicle uses either hydrazine or nitrogen tetroxide.

Aside from the main engine, reaction thrusters could foul the surrounding
fuselage with nasty chemicals.

~~~
MysticFear
It states at the end: "The X-37 is powered by a single Rocketdyne AR2-3 rocket
engine, manufactured by Pratt & Whitney. Each engine can produce a maximum of
29.341kN thrust and uses solar power and lithium-ion batteries instead of the
traditional fuel cell system."

But earlier states: "Fuelled with military fuel JP-8 and hydrogen peroxide,
the Rocketdyne engine of the X-37 is designed to run for nine months. The
engine installed in the aircraft currently uses hypergolic nitrogen tetroxide
or hydrazine."

Odd, no?

~~~
throwketchup
What exactly do you consider odd? As others have replied, hydrazine has a long
history for RCS systems in spacecraft, and kerosene + oxidizer mixtures have
long been used for propulsion engines. The only technology here that isn't
entirely orthodox is the lithium battery, but that's just an evolutionary
upgrade from NiCads. Apparently the range safety guys finally decided that it
was ok for an unmanned craft to fly with lithium.

~~~
MysticFear
Says it is powered by a single engine, but states it powered by hydrazine.
Later on contradicts, and says it is powered by lithium ion batteries. Which
is it?

~~~
bradleyland
Both. A more accurate statement would be that it is propelled to stable orbit
by a single rocket. The plane's systems are powered by lithium ion batteries,
which are recharged by a solar array.

You appear to want something secretive to be uncovered here, but I'm afraid
that the use of this protective gear is not the smoking gun you think it is.

Also, it wouldn't be all that strange for there to be a nuclear device on
board. Nuclear power is regularly used in satellites. The reactors are not the
same as the ones used in terrestrial nuclear power plants though. A satellite
typically uses a radioisotope thermoelectric generator.

~~~
MysticFear
"You appear to want something secretive to be uncovered here"

Not exactly, just wanted to know more. I know satellites and spacecraft in the
past have used nuclear/radioactive energy:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassini%E2%80%93Huygens](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassini%E2%80%93Huygens)

~~~
dalke
The way you're self-educating is very similar to the strategy used by those
who wish to imply that there is something being deliberately withheld. You
might want to change your form of autodidacticism in order to draw a larger
distinction between the two.

For example, consider the two statements "Seems like a radioactive power
source with that type of protection." and "Odd, no?" They imply that you know
enough to make a reasonably confident statement about 1) the different types
of clothing used for different hazmat situations and what's appropriate for
space operations, and 2) that you understand enough about space power systems
to judge what's odd.

You received many responses pointing out that these are standard chemical
hazmat suits for this sort of task, with decades of examples and pointers to
multiple space agencies, and not similar to what's used for space-based
radionuclear power sources.

That should have been a pointer that you don't have enough knowledge to be
able to say if something is "odd", as regards spacecraft. Your default
assumption should be that nothing is odd, and that it's your lack of
understanding which is the source of confusion. Resolve that first before
looking outside for the point of confusion. Eg, "Thanks for the comments. I
don't know much about spacecraft. Could you also help me understand why ... ?"

You could even have done so in your original question. There was no need to
add "Seems like a radioactive power source with that type of protection."

While on the other hand, those who believe (perhaps correctly, perhaps
falsely) that they've uncovered something secret will use that sort of
phrasing to imply that something is secret, even though they don't have the
ability to outright say that something is secretive without taking the large
chance that doing so will reveal their lack of actual knowledge on the topic.

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stevengg
the guy who took this picture gave a talk 30c3 he takes pictures of military
instantiations Seeing The Secret State: Six Landscapes

[http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_...](http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-
_saal_1_-_201312282300_-_seeing_the_secret_state_six_landscapes_-
_trevor_paglen.html)

~~~
MysticFear
Thanks, that was really informative. The green X-Files uniform patch for the
X-37 program is very ominous.

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qwerta
I guess the fuel could be poisoning (that was case for some soviet military
rockets). Other option is just caution not to introduce dust particles etc...

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exabrial
Exact same suits being worn here...

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine#mediaviewer/File:Hype...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine#mediaviewer/File:Hypergolic_Fuel_for_MESSENGER.jpg)

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anovikov
It is simply an MMH or UDMH propellant onboard, which is carcinogenic.

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benologist
Apparently this thing can fly 500 miles high which is space, maybe it's
related to that?

[http://www.space.com/25275-x37b-space-
plane.html](http://www.space.com/25275-x37b-space-plane.html)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space#Boundary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space#Boundary)

