
Why Developers are Switching to Mac - raju
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04/26/five-reasons-why-designers-are-switching-to-mac/
======
moe
And here: Why many developers are _not_ switching to mac.

1\. Abysmal window manager, not replacable. Pixel waste, clumsy (long list
here)

2\. Mandatory Click-to-Focus and Click-Raise. Showstopper.

3\. No home/end keys on apple laptops and other wierd layout choices.

4\. Nasty BSD gang-rape under the hood. Yes, OSX has it's own "windows
registry".

5\. Idiotic shareware culture that makes you pay for the smallest things. $10
for a sane Macbook trackpad driver that should be in the OS in first place.

6\. Inconsistent keyboard shortcuts, meta-key nonsense, Apple+Q.

7\. Menus only on context-sensitive titlebar, sub-problem of #2

8\. Single mouse button idiocy.

9\. Finder.

10\. Equivalent PC hardware can be had for 60% of the apple price

~~~
diN0bot
you say tomato i say tomato. the things you've listed aren't deal breakers for
me. i've developed for a number of years now on all three systems and so far
mac laptops take the cake easy. that's just me situation, though.

also, -1 for use preformatted text that ruins this whole discussion for
everyone (without a wide browser window).

~~~
blhack
>All three systems

What does this mean?

~~~
diN0bot
nix (athena, redhat, debian, ubuntu), windows and mac. i've done some
development on sparc, too, but i never felt comfortable.

yeah, i wrote the comment quickly and didn't catch my 3-os assumption

probably you could have figured this out, though :-)

~~~
blhack
Oh.

Sorry, I've been spending a lot of time around BSD lately. What I was asking
was if you meant "Windows, BSD, Mac" or "Windows, BSD, Linux" or what.

------
anigbrowl
More like '5 reasons why Mac is no longer impractical for developers'. I think
the only absolute benefit it offers (which is driving some people to it but
curiously isn't mentioned) is being able to develop iPhone/iPod apps.

Not hating on the Mac, or anything - competition is a good thing. I just
didn't care for the evangelista tone.

~~~
TimMontague
The majority of this article seems to be the standard " OS X is Great!"
talking points.

In my opinion, the real reason that developers switch to OS X is so that they
can develop software for apple products (or in the case of web development,
develop websites that are OS X friendly).

~~~
dkarl
None of the "advantages" sounded so hot to me except the desktop effects,
which I haven't bothered to enable in Ubuntu anyway. I use a Mac regularly,
and the interface hasn't stopped irritating me. I hate the stoplight window
controls, and I hate using Command instead of Control. I love Apple's hardware
design, but the software feels... obtuse. And apathetic. Like it has a hard
time paying attention to me and doesn't feel like being helpful anyway. (I
bought my Mac for four reasons: to try iPhone development, to run Adobe
Lightroom, because I love my iPhone, and because I wanted to see what the fuss
was all about.)

I'm positively drooling for Apple to release a tablet PC, though. Gimme gimme
gimme _please_.... The multitouch stuff on the iMacs looks extremely cool, and
you just know Apple will nail the tablet.

~~~
axod
There is absolutely no proven market for a 'tablet PC'. None whatsoever.
Despite them being available for years in various forms.

~~~
dkarl
Because they're all terrible. They're all just small laptops with touch-
sensitive screens and a few touch-screen software features. I've been itching
for a tablet PC since at least 2003, but I've never bought one because I want
one that doesn't suck. (Wait, I did buy a Nokia n800... sigh.) Apple's tablet
won't suck, because Apple will 1) put a lot of work into creating a UI that
works well with the form factor, and 2) have the guts to cut hardware features
if that's what it takes to create a decent product.

Funny, I sound like an Apple fanboy, even though I came here to express my
irritation with OSX. Right now, if somebody gave me an iMac, my first impulse
would be to install Linux on it, but you just have to look at the non-Apple
phones released since the iPhone launched to see that Apple is on a completely
different plane when it comes to smaller devices. I can't wait to see what
they do with tablets, though perhaps it would hurt their prestige to release a
novel product for a small market... they wouldn't be able to keep the hype
within reasonable bounds, and expectations wouldn't be met.

~~~
axod
The iPhone works, because it's small enough to hold with one hand, while you
type with the other.

I can't see anything much bigger working TBH. At some stage, you need a
keyboard to type on, and to hold the screen at a good angle. And then it's not
portable so you may as well have a netbook/laptop.

~~~
dkarl
I typically move my 15" ThinkPad around by grabbing about (checking...) four
inches of the corner with one hand. I admit it's a strain to hold it up and
type with the other hand, but a tablet would be lighter and more compact. The
ThinkPad is heavy and has a long lever arm.

------
ralonso
These are actually reasons why casual, non-developer users are switching to
Macs, not developers or designers.

The author describes how OSX is more open-source friendly, describing also how
it comes bundled with developer tools, but I find it incredibly hard to
believe that an actual developer will have a hard time finding a better tool
online. The apps that come with the OS aren't exactly the best, and just about
everyone who's planning to get some work done will find other tools wherever
with better libraries and more support.

The author also goes on and on about the UI. The simple taskbar in Windows and
Linux is enough for me. Is it really necessary to have to view a thumbnail-
esque to change to the window? Alt-Tab is enough.

Security? Please! I'll say again: the developers I know are not stupid. Anyone
in their right mind and with some knowledge of computers should know that
clicking on an odd-looking ad, or downloading a strange attachment, or
accessing a crazy porn site aren't sane things. A combination of Firefox and
AdBlock/NoScript can make any OS safe for most people. Unless you have kids
who have thumb drives and like to use your computer, contracting a virus that
way shouldn't be a concern, either.

The hardware-specific optimization is another problem. iPhone development is
booming right now, but what about the rest?

I'm willing to accept "the apple", but presenting bogus arguments isn't
convincing.

~~~
teej
> The author also goes on and on about the UI. The simple taskbar in Windows
> and Linux is enough for me. Is it really necessary to have to view a
> thumbnail-esque to change to the window? Alt-Tab is enough.

I would argue that -this- is the reason why Mac is converting casual non-
developer users. "Normal people" are complicated and the way they perceive
files, windows, and apps interacting on a computer is varied and bizarre. Alt-
tab is simply not enough for normal people to connect with a computer the way
they expect it to work.

Leopard has come really far in making visualization tools that are fast, easy
to understand, and useful. With one keystroke, I can interact with my open
windows in 5 different, task-focused ways. With two keystrokes, I gain access
to even more.

------
1gor
If you develop web based applications, Mac OS X has many limitations,
strangely enough.

Mac OS X is UNIX alright, but to pull most of libraries from MacPorts is the
only sane way to manage dependencies.

If you run Tiger (and see no reasons to upgrade) - then you are stuck with old
Java release for ever. There is no way to upgrade Java other than buying
Leopard, and then you are still at Apple's mercy for future upgrades.

A simple task like doing 'sudo emacs' requires some custom shell scripting,
since emacs that came with the operating system is old and useless.

My initial excitement about Mac hardware is also dented after battery and
graphic card both failed only after a year on my MacBook Pro.

A web developer would be much more happy on Linux if he/she could live without
eye candy.

~~~
KirinDave
"Mac OS X is UNIX alright, but to pull most of libraries from MacPorts is the
only sane way to manage dependencies."

The only time this is the case is ImageMagik. Everything else is easily
manageable by hand unless you insist of mixing it with the normal mac stuff.
MacPorts is hardly _necessary_.

It's unfortunate too, because Apple has one of the _best_ non-package
solutions for managing software installs in their .bundle and .app and
.framework scheme. It's exquisitely simple and elegant, but everyone seems
hesitant to adopt it because, well, because the UNIX way is to use a byzantine
and barely functional package system and not incur manifest parsing penalties
when apps are loaded.

~~~
warfangle
Last time I tried to pull ImageMagik from MacPorts it tried to install X. Huh?

~~~
allenbrunson
same thing happened to me. imagemagick has an image viewer app that requires
x11.

worse, i did indeed already have x11 installed, but imagemagick didn't like it
for some reason, and failed to install. so i pulled down one of the binary
distributions instead.

------
mdasen
I'm not sure why a 'unified interface' is such a selling point. Does Windows
not offer it? To be honest, I'm constantly finding that things on my Mac don't
have a unified interface and that Apple keeps changing what they're looking to
build.

Both platforms (Mac and Win) tend to violate consistency on a case-by-case
basis. Adium, one of the apps highlighted in the article as awesome (which it
is), does not conform to the rest of the system's interface. Specifically, it
uses white tabs rather than the new not-quite-metal look of 10.5. Likewise,
iTunes has different scrollbars, Camino and OmniWeb don't use the new button-
look for controls and use the old-style flat color images, sometimes input
boxes have rounded corners and sometimes they don't, sometimes you can tab to
select menus and sometimes you can't, find boxes are in every form imaginable.
. .

Consistency is great, but practicality beats purity. Both Apple and Microsoft
have kept things decently consistent and violate their designs. Heck, with web
pages throwing all sorts of interfaces at users, even the non-techies are
getting used to understanding how different interfaces work.

OS X is great, but I don't see it as being amazingly more consistent than
other platforms.

------
halo
I think this is an extremely poor article, particularly as this largely seems
like just a random selection of vague talking points while giving anything
concrete. I'm slightly frustrated that people think that this sort of article
is worthy of being upvoted when it has little more substance than "Apple!
Yay!".

I think the real reasons developers, compared to all other users, are
beginning to use Macs is down to 3 reasons:

* Unix tools, software and terminal. Unix, and Unix software, is the bread and butter for a lot of developers, and getting them to work on Windows is pain and even then is regarded as a second-class citizen. People have been crying out for a truly good Unix workstation for years, but Apple are the first ones to gain enough traction to matter and truly create a good out-of-the-box user experience for it.

* Universality. Mac OS X runs notoriously poorly under virtualization, so buying a Mac is the only simple choice if you wish to develop for all current platforms, something that is increasingly common, and run all the software available.

* Fashion, particularly in areas where programming has overlapped design such as web development. People follow each other and their trends, and Mac OS X and the Macbook Pro has become a fashion among a certain type of developer.

~~~
HSO
Have you even read the article? Your first two points are mentioned
prominently.

~~~
halo
Yes, I have read the article. Yes, they are mentioned in the article...
alongside another dozen Macintosh features which have little or no bearing on
the reasons that developers specifically buy Macintosh machines compared to
ordinary users. Unless, of course, you honestly think developers are buying
Macs because of Quartz or Core Animation as much as they are Unix support,
because they aren't savvy enough to know how to avoid spyware, or because
they're looking for obviously much-needed help at the Genius Bar. A stopped
clock is right twice a day.

------
aphistic
I picked up a 13" Macbook (unibody) at the end of last year because I was
looking to do some iPhone/iPod Touch development. I'd always wanted to give OS
X a go because of the underlying system and I've become a big fan of the OS.

I'd have to say that the biggest thing holding me back from doing extensive
development on the OS, though, is the lack of "Home" and "End" buttons (it's
the small things, I guess). I know there's Command+Left/Right but it's just
such a weird keystroke and if I want to select a line it's not End,
Shift+Home. I have to press Command+Right, Shift+Command+Left and it just
feels like a lot of unnecessary keystrokes.

I also don't like the fact there's no built-in solution for mouse
acceleration. I want it turned off but from what I've read in my searches
there's no way to do it without running a separate program to do it for you.

~~~
softbuilder
Text editing on the keyboard also drove me crazy for a while. You do get used
to it. My lingering complaints: the insane placement of Cmd for Cut/Copy/Paste
(talk about a Vulcan Nerve Pinch!) and the mental shift required when
switching back and forth between the GUI and the shell. (Mainly that's
remembering to switch to/from Control/Cmd).

~~~
ZeroGravitas
But that's the best bit!

I love using Command-C to cut and paste throughout the OS including the
terminal, rather than having to switch to Control-Shift-C for certain things
as you do under Gnome, where forgetting means canceling something.

------
twopoint718
I've come to like my iBook G4 more since I've been running Debian on it. The
advantage, which no fanboy can dispute is this, free upgrades. I got sick of
this or that not working under 10.3 (no Java updates, for example) and so I
thought "I'm just not shelling out $100+ for a new OS."

I do appreciate that OSX is now an official UNIX, more power to 'em.

~~~
TweedHeads
I also have an iBook G4, what are my choices to install Leopard for free?
Torrents?

 _I want it for iPhone development so linux is not an option._

~~~
jodrellblank
This isn't a Warez approval site so stealing it is not an option. Therefore
your choices to install Leopard for free are: Find someone willing to fund
your purchase of Leopard.

------
braindead_in
What about brand appeal. Macs are also a status symbol. A way to make a
statement about yourself, telling others that you are 'in' that exclusive
club, you are cool and happening.

~~~
KirinDave
I really think that this is an overstated effect for computers. For the iPhone
and iPod maybe that's true. But for the laptops? I dunno.

I know OSX is the #1 reason I prefer a mac at home. Being able to play like a
native member of the Posix world while still having one of my favorite GUI
APIs available is a big deal in my book.

~~~
dkarl
Opening up a laptop in a coffeeshop is like a peacock spreading its feathers.

~~~
olefoo
Oddly enough on the lekking[1] front; I've gotten more comments in the last
few months when I pull my smallish (8.9in.) netbook out and use it, than I've
seen anyone get for using a Mac in the past couple of years.

1\. Lekking - A gathering of males engaged in competitive mating displays
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lekking>

------
dryicerx
Blah, they need to reword "Developers" with "Web Developers".

A systems or applications developer won't switch to OSX for those reasons at
all (for other reasons maybe).

------
adamc
I read this and was underwhelmed.I'm not a Mac hater (I used one for over a
decade), but nothing on the list seemed all that compelling. The Unix base and
virtualization are the most compelling reasons, but the only reason
virtualizing Macs on generic x86 boxes is problematic is OS X's license.

Macs are nice machines. But if you have some other reason for using Windows
(cost, compatibility, prior experience), I don't see a compelling case for
switching.

------
pavelludiq
I didn't read the list in detail, but was there realy anything on that
list(except the hardware and the mac only apps) that i don't have in KDE4? Im
seriously asking and im not really bashing apple this time(i sort of have a
history with that).

------
yeahit
I like the Macbook Air except for the glare type display. And im not sure how
well it supports linux.

Currently i think about buying one of the sony vgn-z notebooks. Any expriences
with these?

~~~
asciilifeform
There is an ~$50 filter which sticks to the Air's display, converting it into
an approximately normal (non-glossy) one.

------
_giu
nice article. I have to admit, that after Apple and Intel "teamed" up I
actually spent a thought on buying one, but my wallet was clearly against it
since I'm a full time CS student. perhaps sometime in the future I'll buy a
mac or I'll give OSx86 (<http://www.osx86project.org/>) a try.

------
lurkinggrue
I do despise animation in user interfaces. When I click a window I want it to
just appear and not spend 3 seconds animating.

I don't like OSX but I am not going to deny it's power or appeal.

------
ghostz00
Both operating systems are comparable, each with their own pros and cons and
neither OS has a killer feature nor a debilitating feature.

Just find what works for you.

------
octane
I buy Macs because they work fine and I can afford them and I spent far too
many years of my life dicking around with Linux on the desktop when it clearly
belongs in the datacenter.

I don't use Windows because it isn't Unix, not even if you use Cygwin and
squint and tilt your head sideways.

~~~
rbanffy
If you spent too many years dicking around with Linux you have been doing it
the wrong way.

~~~
octane
> you have been doing it the wrong way.

You ever stand behind a door because you were afraid the modelines in your
XFree86 config file were going to blow up your monitor?

Uphill both ways in the snow, etc.

~~~
rbanffy
There was no easy to use Unix in '96

~~~
octane
There still isn't. Unix is hard.

~~~
rbanffy
No it's not. My 13-yo son uses a Linux-based phone, my wife uses a Mac and my
mother uses Ubuntu. It's fair to say neither of them uses the terminal for
anything (wife did sudo shutdown her Macbook when it refused to do it from the
Apple menu), but Unix is not about terminals - it's an operating system ideal.

------
mroman
<http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html>

~~~
sant0sk1
From the notes:

"Y Combinator is (we hope) visited mostly by hackers. The proportions of OSes
are: Windows 66.4%, Macintosh 18.8%, Linux 11.4%, and FreeBSD 1.5%. The Mac
number is a big change from what it would have been five years ago."

I'd love to see current numbers so we can spot the trend

~~~
ratsbane
Agreed... those numbers were from March 2005. PG, can we have an update,
please?

Also, I was at the first Startup School at Harvard in 2005 (?). One of the
speakers (PG?) noted the very high proportion of Macs in the room. Looking
around I guessed about 80%. That is consistent with something PG said in that
Mac essay - "If you want to know what ordinary people will be doing with
computers in ten years, just walk around the CS department at a good
university. Whatever they're doing, you'll be doing." I'm seeing more of my
friends and coworkers using Mac, even DBAs who use MS SQL Server a lot.

------
erlanger
Vista.

Edit: OK, how am I wrong?

~~~
dschobel
It's your argument, the burden of proof is on you. I would imagine that's why
you got all the downvotes.

------
comatose_kid
Although I haven't read any of the 56 responses here, I'm probably safe in
assuming:

1) No new insight into this earth-shattering issue will arise, even from the
mighty minds on HN. 2) Even if 1) were wrong, it wouldn't change anyone's mind
anyways.

