
Facebook Slingshot – A new way to share photos and videos - jeremylevy
http://www.sling.me/
======
jameshart
We live in the age of wonders. The internet and mobile devices create endless
possibilities for people to communicate, learn and interact. And at Facebook,
a company which can, if it chooses, pick from among the brightest engineering
minds and focus their efforts on any problem it chooses, the power to
concentrate years of programming knowledge on the capabilities afforded to us
by this astonishing bounty of personal technology has produced:

"A new way to share photos and videos"

And they don't even seem to have a monetization strategy for it.

~~~
ed209
Did you know there are over 150 varieties of Finches? Each slightly different,
maybe color difference or a larger beak or bigger wingspan. They came about by
iterating on the Finches that came before.

In fact, that's how most advancements come about in nature, poetry, art, and
yes, even technology. We take what came before an iterate on it.

I'm trying to think of a giant leap that came out of nowhere, but I can't.

Photos and videos are important to me. Really important. It's how I see my
family 1000's of miles away or my daughter 5 miles away when I'm at work.

And just like in nature, either this iteration will thrive or die out
eventually.

~~~
jameshart
I like this analogy. Silicon valley generates random mutations of existing
ideas, without thought or direction, and occasionally lands, by pure chance,
on something slightly better, which survives at the expense of other inferior
mutations.

I guess that maybe the developers working on "a new way to share photos and
video" kid themselves that they're making something different; something that
really is revolutionary. But no, what they're really doing is tweaking the
shape of a beak thinking it'll make a better finch.

So I do kind of have to ask: is making random tweaks to the genome of the
photo sharing application in the hope they'll be successful really the best
use of the talents of all those developers?

~~~
tomphoolery
> So I do kind of have to ask: is making random tweaks to the genome of the
> photo sharing application in the hope they'll be successful really the best
> use of the talents of all those developers?

These developers CHOOSE to work at Facebook. If they don't feel as though re-
inventing the slide show would be the best use of their time, there are
thousands of companies which do cooler stuff that would GLADLY have them.

Maybe the people who work for Facebook aren't as smart as you think they are.
Actually, what's _far_ more likely is that MAYBE JUST MAYBE not every one of
the tens of thousands of people working at Facebook is a genius...

~~~
textminer
Tens of thousands?

~~~
djloche
As of March Facebook has a reported 6,818 total full time employees. Certainly
Thousands, but not tens of thousands.

------
songzme
This app brings to mind an excerpt for Larry Page - The untold Story:

... Up front, an executive pitched a new product that helped users find the
right offline store to do their shopping.

The executive was well into his pitch when, suddenly, Page interrupted him.

“No,” Page said emphatically. “We don’t do this.”

The room grew quiet.

“We build products that leverage technology to solve huge problems for
hundreds of millions of people.”

He went on. “Look at Android. Look at Gmail. Look at Google Maps. Look at
Google Search. That’s what we do. We build products you can’t live without.”

“This is not it.”

Read more: [http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-page-the-untold-
story-2...](http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-page-the-untold-
story-2014-4#ixzz34vCgyQGy)

~~~
outside1234
Also called the "toothbrush rule". Larry wouldn't allow a product that you
didn't use twice a day to be developed at Google.

~~~
ionforce
I've never heard this before. I like this a lot.

Kinda like the Bezos "pizza rule".

~~~
bradhe
...because it has the word "rule" in it? That's about the only similarity
between those two concepts.

------
dcpdx
I'm not sure I understand the allure of this; perhaps I'm missing something.
So I have to send a video/photo in response to someone who sent me one, in
order to see what they sent? It seems like there would be a massive disparity
in interesting activities between two parties at any given time to make this
concept work. If one of my buddies is having a riot at Coachella and sends me
a crazy festival pic for instance, and I'm just sitting at my desk doing work,
what am I supposed to do? Send them back a pic of my coffee mug or something?
Seems like they felt they had to do something to distinguish themselves from
Snapchat but I'm not sure this is the answer. Time till tell though, I guess.

~~~
alaoiigha
Well for one, you wouldn't know what his pic was. And two, that's going to be
very very normal in this app.

I like it because it's a pic conversation app (which i enjoy, with close
friends) that forces interaction. For those of us already using similar
things, this sort of structures our interaction into a conversation, rather
than one person simply sending pics to the other.

With that said, i can't help but feel i am the minority of users. Not just
here on HN (lets be honest, most things are received poorly on HN), but all
around. People have the sense of needing to send something meaningful in a
picture, but i like simply idle chat, in picture form. It's neat

~~~
alttab
Why the hell would sending dud pictures to see a picture someone sent you be
"normal" for the app? Couldn't we use Facebook, Snapchat, or SMS to get the
same effect without literally working around a feature? Fucking retarded.

Why would you want to use an app that "forces" interaction? Either the two
mutual parties are interested in talking to each other, or they are not. Im
sorry, but a photo sharing app like this one will not help my conversations be
more engaging. It actually puts up barriers.

"Neat" does not justify the money or engineering talent invested in it. If I
was a Facebook share holder, I'd be confused as all hell.

~~~
alaoiigha
I'd say Snapchat is the comparison, and yes, you literally could. It's almost
as if people and companies create products to compete with other products.
Multiple types of bread, what madness is this. I could literally use the same
type of bread from this other company!

> "Neat" does not justify the money or engineering talent invested in it. If I
> was a Facebook share holder, I'd be confused as all hell.

lol i wasn't trying to justify them creating it. I don't give a shit why they
did. All i care is that i am a consumer of it, and enjoy it more than
Snapchat. Vastly more than sending pictures via SMS/Facebook/etc.

I'd love to continue a discussion, but this feels much less like a discussion
about a product and more like i have to try and sell you on the concept, and
on the product itself. Frankly, i don't have the slightest care if you like
the product.

Funny how Liking something on HN is so often a mind blowingly crazy concept.
"But the numbers don't add up!!" they cry. Well, make your own Facebook,
become far more successful than FB, and don't make their mistakes. Since you
so clearly know something they don't, you should have a serious edge in the
competition, right? :)

~~~
alttab
So I won't knock on you enjoying it, because thats subjective. How do you use
it though, you'll need to eventually sell all your facebook friends to use it
as well since you like it so much. You'll have to convince them why forcing to
send you a picture to see what you send them is better for them.

For this reason, I see it literally as an uphill battle for it to gain
traction. Hoping that you are right, and that Facebook as learned something
from their mistakes and will take their edge and use it - instead of building
a completely separate app with a disjointed use case and calling it social
innovation. Give me a break!

~~~
alaoiigha
> How do you use it though, you'll need to eventually sell all your facebook
> friends to use it as well since you like it so much. You'll have to convince
> them why forcing to send you a picture to see what you send them is better
> for them.

I disagree on me personally, but that is because i try to keep my social
circle, especially those who i'd use this app with, very small. I try to keep
my FB friends below 10 _(though, i have been debating letting everyone in, but
only listening /posting to ~10)_.

This is abnormal for the common person today.

Fwiw, the only problem i have with this App, is that it destroys natural image
conversation. Now that we've _(friend s and i)_ used it heavily for a day _(we
'll see if i think the same after a week)_, we still enjoy it but we cannot
converse beyond 1 reaction. This feels quite limited, and makes the "idle-
chat" style picture convo less supported.

------
theg2
The catch is a pretty big deal, and by deal I mean a deal breaker for me.

Why do I have to share something back with someone in order to see what
they've shared back at me? I understand it's great for engagement but who
would use this over Snapchat or Instagram.

~~~
ihsw
The concept kind of reminds me of Facebook poke wars, which are mildly
entertaining in and of itself.

~~~
Kiro
I didn't realize it when watching the promo video but you're actually spot on.

------
rayiner
If you don't have the attention span to sit through the montage, here's the
money shot: [http://blog.sling.me](http://blog.sling.me) (third paragraph
down):

> To get started on Slingshot, shoot a photo or video. It can be what you’re
> up to, who you’re with or a quick selfie. Add some text and color, then
> sling it to a bunch of friends. Here’s the deal: friends won’t be able to
> see your shot until they sling something back to you. They can then reply
> with a reaction—or simply swipe your shot away.

~~~
x3c
Thanks, I'd no idea what that was till I read what you referenced.

------
jfasi
This underscores what appears to be an interesting strategic move by Facebook:
build an ecosystem of applications, which in turn encourages people to use
their other products. In turn, this provides continued competition against
Twitter, Tumblr, etc.

The interesting thing about this app is that it's an experiment: viral success
of social applications appears to be a hit or miss sort of thing, so why not
throw many things at the wall and see what sticks á la Paper, Home, Messenger,
or buy something already big á la Instagram or Snapchat.

One benefit of this strategy is that it raises barriers to entry for your
competitors: the more modes of social interaction you offer, the fewer
opportunities for your competitors to chip away at your empire, and the more
enticing your properties become to advertisers.

~~~
debt
"build an ecosystem of applications,"

Google tried this in the mid-oughts. They stopped and began focusing mostly on
Android, Search/Ads and YouTube. They rolled all that random idea/app shit
into Google X. Apparently, Steve Jobs and the Google founders sat down and he
basically said focus or die. So Google focused. I'm sure there's a Google
graveyard out there that highlights all the apps they attempted to make, a few
are still kicking like finance and news. But like Reader is huge shutdown from
that period.

FB will likely do the same thing while it finds it's voice.

~~~
troymc
From my point of view, Google still _is_ an ecosystem of applications: Search,
Gmail, Google Calendar, Google Maps, Google Docs, YouTube, Google Analytics,
Google AdSense, Blogger, Google+, etc.

In fact, if you want a complete list, just get a "Google Apps for Business"
account ($50/user/year) and start browsing the Admin pages.

------
hoopism
I am guessing this is something kids will use to share nude pics... wish I was
a kid now...

~~~
brianbarker
I'll show you mine...if you show me yours first?

~~~
alttab
and then send me a blank picture so you can see the one I sent for you. This
way, a picture exchange requires at least 3 pictures. Seems like a win for
usability to me. /s

------
mrcwinn
The only concept stranger than being encouraged to send a photo of such little
value that it disappears, is being asked to respond to something you can't
see.

------
nthState
HackerNews guys & gals are probably not the audience of the app, but the
audience Facebook's aiming at will love it.

~~~
joeblau
That may be the case. What I wonder is how many people really trust Facebook
to delete something?

~~~
miguelrochefort
People don't care and nor should you.

------
0xeeeeeeee
One interesting thing I've noticed is facebook has been making a lot of new
apps and widgets.

Messenger, Paper, Slingshot.

Seems to me that they are trying to increase engagement with the "new" factor.
I think it's pretty smart.

~~~
merkury7
Is there actually a significant user base for them though?

I know Messenger was pretty much forced onto users, but other than that I
don't know anyone who uses Paper, nor do I think any of my friends will start
using Slingshot - especially when there are well established alternatives such
as Snapchat.

I'm doubtful many of them have even heard of these new apps, and this is
coming from someone relatively young (20 y/o).

------
gfodor
It's obvious this is just another Facebook experiment to see if it sticks. To
criticize the idea head on is dumb, I'm sure the people who built it have
their own skepticism as well. Probably easy to build and launch, so they did.
Criticize their methods (like focusing on photo/video apps in general, or on
mass experimentation), not the specifics of experiments themselves if you want
to be taken seriously. The least productive use of time is sitting around
arguing if you _think_ an idea would work, if it's easy to test.

~~~
jvagner
Aww, c'mon. You're trying to promote a playfulness here that isn't justifiable
in the present situation. How many stupid things can Facebook release before
people stop paying attention to anything that Facebook releases?

You're also arguing, it seems, that there's now a condition in the app
marketplace where people building things have no real understanding of what
will play in the marketplace, so developers shouldn't think too hard about
whether or not an app idea is a good idea by any criteria, other than "Build
it -- you never know what the plebes will go for."

That may be how things seem to those of us who weren't lucky enough to build a
stupid app and get rich off it, but who's gonna write that business book for
McGraw-Hill?

~~~
gfodor
I'm arguing that the depth of consideration should be inversely proportional
to the ease with which one can run a test. Certainly the people at Facebook
had _some_ intuition about if this new dynamic would be appealing to people.
But the reality is the success of these types of apps are hard to predict
based upon your own personal preferences, when you look at the way various
apps split along demographic lines. This type of app is trivial for Facebook
to build at this point, it's really just a matter of opportunity cost for
them, so it seems likely they will continue to try various small tweaks to
interaction models in order to find successes in this domain.

And like I said, you can criticize the idea that they should be building these
types of things in the first place. But people saying that this particular
incarnation will never work because they don't "get" it haven't been paying
attention the last 5 years in the mobile space, and those who lament the fact
that all this talent was put into this app are probably overestimating the
effort for a company like Facebook to produce something like this at this
point.

------
prezjordan
I see the "catch" as a never-ending chain, and the conversations will end
quite awkwardly.

~~~
sb23
That's a good point. You can't say "ok, see you there" or finish your
conversation in any normal way without the other person sending yet another
picture. One person will always end up with an unseen picture.

------
minimaxir
I've downloaded the app (username: minimaxir) and it's somewhat of a usability
nightmare, much like the recent Snapchat update. The camera buttons are nearly
invisible if you're facing a bright light source. (such as your face, which is
a rather common use case with this type of app.) Additionally, there is
absolutely no button for the app options: I found them completely _by
accident_ by tapping my username.

This is minimalism gone too far.

------
izolate
I'm curious to know whether the slingshot team extensively "dogfooded" their
application and found that the mandatory slingback requirement wasn't as bad
as I'm expecting.

I imagine they did. Surely they wouldn't release an app without adequate
market research/qa.

Still, I'm not convinced. I'll have to try it.

~~~
devindotcom
I'm not convinced either, but I'm not going to try it. My immediate thought
was DOA.

~~~
alttab
Same here. Its like sharing, but you have to share to let people share. Seems
fucking stupid. Sending a picture is essentially asking for a picture. I can't
imagine enough use cases where I think "I'll definitely want to send them this
picture if they send me one first" to make this app stick, outside of sending
naked pictures of myself in exchange for another one - which I never do.

Outside of using the "must-share-to-care" rule as some sort of teasing or game
mechanic, why would they literally create work to share? I simply don't get
it.

I'm also more than likely not their target market.

~~~
encoderer
Yes, you are _clearly_ not their target market.

> why would they literally create work to share? I simply don't get it.

I don't think they did? You can send a pic as easy as ever. But there _is_
"work" to _receive_ it. If I want to see what a friend just sent me, I snap a
pic of something and send it back.

I think this will easily have DAU numbers that most startups would kill for.
Whether it'll be big enough to justify at Facebook, though, remains to be
seen.

~~~
alttab
The only way I could see it working is if you could easily send an integrated
experience to a user who does not have the app. This would need to be from the
web, have access to the camera, or ultimately download and install the app in
the background.

If the early adopters of Slingshot do not need to care about who uses
slingshot, and its rather seamless for the receiver, I could see the install
base spreading quickly. That will make things easier. Then again, its a trick.

I think what remains to be seen is what sort of interation this _enables_ ,
which prudently I suppose I'd say its too early to tell.

Conservatively I'd say the numbers are against it.

------
Trufa
Be careful if you're using headphones, scared me to death.

------
cantabrigian
FaceBook Slingshot: where we incentivize you to share photos no matter what
else you're doing, even if you're biking with a child strapped to the front
and there's a glorious picture of your shadow on the ground. Nope, nope, there
it is got it. Phew. (re: promo video)

------
ar_turnbull
The great unbundling continues.

I understand Facebook is worried about a new trend wiping them out, but I
don't see how a defensive moat of look-alikes is going to save them. Other
than Messenger, are any of Facebook's new apps gaining users? Or are they like
Poke — destined to be retired.

------
kolev
Honestly, they should've bid a couple more billions for Snapchat. And what a
mess! I have one username on Facebook, another on Instagram, third on
Slingshot - with the same company. That's why Twitter is my identity. Google+
is a mess, too. Twitter is identity and people protect and advertise their
identity. All these others are recyclables. Tomorrow this can shut down and
nobody will care. I'm surprised Facebook hasn't learned this. You can't even
mention a username - it often finds the wrong people in the mentions, not even
people who are friends. With Twitter, identity is solid. Anyway, maybe I'm
pissed off as I missed to capture my username, but this doesn't mean I'm
wrong. :)

------
patcon
I don't like this. I'm a proponent of the "slow web" \-- a philosophy that
treasures real-life reciprocation over online engagement. It eschews the idea
of endorphin-releasing actions with the sole purpose but draining cognitive
reservoirs.

The idea of engaging in conversations with no point except "sharing" \-- with
reduced focus on meaningful dialogue and increased focus on the simplistic
pleasure of "getting mail" \-- I find this kinda repulsive.

Perhaps this is grandiose, but it strikes me as the lowest common denominator
of human interaction.

Not looking forward to stuff like this...

EDIT: And yes, I concede that it's pretty ingenious...! But I still don't like
it. It's too much of a psychological hack for my tastes

------
songzme
Just tried slingshot for a day and absolutely hate it. Never thought facebook
is capable of fart apps. "... some genius decided to include a feature that
requires you to message back to unlock slings that are sent to you. Really?
What am I supposed to send them when I don't even know what their sling is
about? This results in me sending an unlocker photo just to unlock an unlocker
sling sent to me and the vicious cycle continues..."

What results is a cycle of useless pictures taken just to unlock pictures.
wtf?

I'd suggest downloading it and playing with it just to learn from this
uniquely frustrating experience.

------
k-mcgrady
>> "Mr. Flynn, who said he thought up Slingshot as a way to push his brothers
to respond to his photo messages" (From NTY)[1]

What a bad reason to create a product. People don't want to respond to your
messages so your create a way to try to force them to respond. Realistically
they probably won't care enough to reply and now won't see your messages at
all.

[1] [http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/17/facebook-
releases-s...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/17/facebook-releases-
slingshot-for-self-destructing-selfies)

~~~
alttab
Or download your stupid fucking app in the first place.

------
josteink
Not available to me because of my country? You mean because I'm not from the
US?

Screw that.

------
darrelld
Seems like they're trying to create more interaction and it sounds like it
would be fun...for the first couple of times.

Who really wants to go out of their way to make a new video or photo to see
something? We've all become accustomed to the instant gratification that the
internet offers, why would we suddenly opt in for a slower experience?

Or it will turn into people sharing the same generic useless video / picture
over and over just to see a video a friend sent, but then at that point why
use this product at all?

But maybe I'm wrong and it will take the preteen / teen world by storm.

~~~
alaoiigha
I'm actually excited, but only to use this with my GF and I. We do something
similar with Hangouts, but this seems more fun due to the video support
primarily.

I have yet to find out if the videos are temporary (i hope so)

~~~
alttab
Just like Snapchat's pictures were temporary?

------
Kopion
From the Tech Crunch article [0]: "Over the next six months, they set out to
build an app where “there’s way less pressure to create because everyone is
creating”, Reuben says."

I have never felt pressure to "create". Has anyone outside of the SV/SF bubble
felt pressure to create?

[0]: [http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/17/facebook-
slingshot/](http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/17/facebook-slingshot/)

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> ""Over the next six months, they set out to build an app where “there’s way
less pressure to create because everyone is creating”"

WHAT? How do they go from that to: "We should force people to create and send
images, even if they don't want to, just so they can see what they've been
send!"

~~~
SifJar
This quote is best understood from within the context of the article. At my
first glance, I thought the same as you, then I read the article. Basically,
they're not saying that people shouldn't feel pressure to reciprocate
(obviously), they're saying that people needn't feel pressure when "creating"
something, because everyone else is "creating" stuff too, so most of it won't
be excellent quality. They're not trying to discourage creation, but to make
it that it's not intimidating to create, because of the vast amount of crappy
content there will be (so yours won't stand out as particularly bad). That's
my understanding of it from a (skim) read of the TechCrunch article linked.

~~~
k-mcgrady
Thanks for the context. I read a different article (NYT one) but was
commenting here as it was the top voted one at the time on HN.

~~~
alttab
I hate Facebook status update anxiety. Some days I never leave my house.

------
mcintyre1994
I wanted to have a look if any of my friends had this and apparently it can't
be installed in the UK. Out of interest has anybody got this outside the US
yet?

~~~
miguelrochefort
Not available in Canada.

~~~
togedoge
Not available in Australia

~~~
tomhenderson
Not available in New Zealand

~~~
minikomi
Or Japan. Neither is Paper.

------
silverbucket
Great, another place jockeying to collect my data. Using fun social rewards to
force people to submit more and more videos to their silo, but no, it's for
you! Until we have enough of your data to make money off selling it to others
and placing more and more restrictions on our service. Innovation?

------
bela_lugosi
There was an app called Rando (rando.ustwo.se/ or
techcrunch.com/2014/03/22/rip-rando/) that did the same thing and became
hugely popular in a few weeks only, but the creators decided to take it down.
I guess Facebook just saw the opportunity and stepped in.

------
6thSigma
So Slingshot expects you to respond to something before you can find out what
you're responding to?

------
trempoline
I admire the earnestness and innocence that makes a serious discussion of this
possible. I, unfortunately, do not share those qualities. Trusting Facebook to
provide "ephemeral messaging" is like trusting a dog to keep a roast beef
sandwich safe.

------
jpsim
It's nice to see lots of some experiments come out of Facebook, but they
should really be seen and treated as such.

Is this a revolutionary product idea? No. Is it a platform for Facebook to see
what sticks and then apply to its core offering? You bet.

------
simoneau
OMG, where is the link that describes your product or service without having
to listen to rock music while being fed half a sentence at a time, please?

Oh, found it. It is labeled "Blog". And skip down to paragraph four.

------
edgyswingset
I don't see how this can help then monetize more. Chances are the people who
are using Slingshot already use Facebook. Where does the payoff on the
investment kick in?

~~~
SifJar
Maintaining/increasing interaction with Facebook. Same reason as they keep
improving/changing the site and their main app, and making other side apps
(e.g. Messenger). The greater the level of interaction from users, the more
data they can gather etc. and also the more valuable the ads they sell become.

Also maybe monetization via in-app ads (although probably not; snapchat
doesn't have them, and they'll be wanting to compete).

~~~
edgyswingset
I guess I'm just not convinced that an app like this, which is a late clone of
an insanely popular app within the target audience, will give them enough
valuable data to where they can sell ads at a higher price.

Monetizing in-app with the equivalent of stickers is a possibility, but since
you can already draw on the pictures I doubt that would be very effective.

------
etrinh
The app is pretty confusing to use. For those of you stuck like I was, you
actually have to complete the tutorial in order to add people and start
"slinging."

------
themark
I notice that you have to sign up with your phone number. Could this be a
clever way to link phones with Facebook accounts that do not have a phone
number ?

~~~
alttab
If Facebook is doing it, its a clever way to do something to help them serve
you ads.

------
afandian
502 Bad Gateway

nginx/1.6.0

(edit: it works now. But it didn't 15 minutes ago)

------
i2oc
Great, another social photo sharing app that is not available on Windows
Phone. I guess that is life as a second class phone OS citizen.

------
macu
Not available via Play Store in Canada :( not even for the guy who gives new
things a chance.

------
orasis
I'm feeling old since I seem to have an innate aversion to vertical photos or
video.

------
fuire8
yeah, get others ideas , do something similar and profit

------
mrpanda
I guess this is game over for snapchat?

------
rbosinger
Chlorophyll? more like borophyll...

------
huangc10
why? serious question.

------
dang
Related submissions that we buried as duplicates:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905539](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905539)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905532](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905532)

It's not always obvious which post to treat as canonical, but the current
thread has the most substantive discussion.

------
benihana
Facebook sees the writing on the wall. They replaced Myspace. Myspace (sorta)
replaced Friendster. They know it's only a matter of time before someone else
replaces them. They are trying as hard as they can to make sure it's an app
built and controlled by them.

