
Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France - tomerbd
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46822472
======
CalRobert
I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching
surveillance state and took judgment away from officers.

Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid.

And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street
where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding.
It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflection
reveals that even if 1 out of 100 drives dangerously, you'll remember that 1.

We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a
big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked.
Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars.

Of course, people also die from the emissions coming out of the tailpipe,
which is what these protesters seem to want to do freely. "Oh, your grandma
has emphysema and lives near the road? Tough shit, I want my cheap diesel."

~~~
adav
> And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street
> where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding.

100%. However, the majority of cameras are placed on deserted countryside main
roads and non-pedestrianised motorways/interstate type roads. More camera
locations should be prioritised for protecting pedestrians.

~~~
TomK32
Those cameras are not to protect pedestrians, they exist to enforce drivers to
stick to the speed limit.

Look at these charts. Speeding rural areas kill! Also, take a guess at what
time SUVs became popular in urban areas.
[https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-
environment/f...](https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-
environment/fatalityfacts/roadway-and-environment)

~~~
tomp
The point is, speed cameras are just a bad solution.

At best, they're a passive aggressive way of exerting government control over
citizens. At worst, they're a revenue-increasing mafia-protection-like tool.

If you _actually_ want to protect pedestrians, you build physical "traffic
calming" obstacles like speed bumps or chicanes [1]. Switzerland is full of
these, and they're _very_ effective. There's really no good reason to have
speed cameras (although red light cameras might be a better idea), especially
on the motorway (Germany manages without motorway speed limits, so clearly
they're not necessary to have a functioning society).

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicane#Traffic_calming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicane#Traffic_calming)

~~~
nojvek
Yes speed bumps are way more effective than cameras.

Australia is full of them in sneaky places. It makes the driving experience
quite stressful. The speed limits are sometimes ridiculously low and it’s like
playing a game.

Speed bumps/breakers are way more effective at slowing cars down. If you don’t
slow, you get a big fat jolt and damage your shocks.

I like driving in US much better.

------
jasonkester
It's worth noting that French speed cameras may work a bit differently to what
Americans expect. They're a revenue generation mechanism over here, not a
safety measure.

Imagine you're driving down a divided motorway at freeway speed, when for no
evident reason there's a single 90kph speed sign visible for a couple seconds
behind a bridge. That's the signal that 100 yards further on there will be a
hidden speed camera. Then the speed limit will go back up to 130kph
immediately afterwards.

So when you move to a new area you find out about these things when a series
of fines arrive in the mail. Often for being recorded going 91kph in that 90
zone.

It's maddening as a safe driver, having to keep constantly alert and ready to
slam on the brakes going down any unfamiliar piece of road.

I'm not overly saddened to hear there are fewer of those things around for a
while.

~~~
m_t
> It's maddening as a safe driver, having to keep constantly alert and ready
> to slam on the brakes going down any unfamiliar piece of road.

You've just described what being a safer driver is. You _have to_ be alert at
all times, and you _have to_ be ready to brake if something suddenly happens.

------
eastendguy
Why the hate for speed cameras? I _love_ speed cameras because they make the
roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well,
which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

~~~
chrisper
They would make the roads safer if they weren't used so often as money
machines. Do they stand at schools? Nope. They stand at the bottom of the hill
at the exit of a town.

~~~
rikkus
They used to be positioned like this in the UK but all the ones I’ve seen like
this have been removed or moved over the years to places where they could be
regarded as more for safety than easy money making.

~~~
suvelx
This was intentional, the chief of police wanted to stop them being used as
revenue generation, and actually used as a safety device.

As such, they're now bright yellow.

~~~
Balero
They also have abundant signs pointing to where they are. I even saw one that
had a blue flashing light on top, with a large speed limit sign next to it.

If you get caught by that, you really need to pay more attention.

------
julsimon
People hate them because it's yet another tax. 1 billion+ euros in 2018:
[https://www.lerevenu.com/breves/les-radars-automatiques-
devr...](https://www.lerevenu.com/breves/les-radars-automatiques-devraient-
rapporter-plus-dun-milliard-deuros-en-2018)

If you drive around in France, you quickly realise most of them are installed
in profitable areas, not in dangerous areas.

Looking forward to 100% of them being destroyed.

------
c1sc0
I drove from Paris all the way to the Northern border and was amazed at not
having seen a single working camera. Also every major road crossing had at
least one guy in a yellow vest picketing. Must admit that I kinda supported
the work they did on the cameras though.

------
galfarragem
Yellow Vests movement _is not_ about speed cameras neither cheap oil: that's
just the folklore part.

Yellow Vests movement is a reaction from the silent parts of middle class that
are the pillar of democracy: private sector employees. This (traditionally)
silent crowd feels plundered by the government to support policies and
lifestyles that they don't agree with.

------
Hoasi
Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now
taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in
retaliation. The French government has already stepped back before. But it
never seems enough for protesters.

It does look like a much bigger movement than the state had anticipated. If
enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious.

~~~
coldtea
> _Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now
> taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in
> retaliation._

A proud history of civil non-compliance, from the French Revolution, 1848, and
the Commune to May 68, is what made France what it is, and helped usher us
into the modern freedoms and rights.

~~~
cm2187
I don't think many french are proud of the commune, outside of the far left.

Even the 1789 French revolution was a bloodshed that resulted into a even
tougher dictatorship (the First Empire)...

~~~
seszett
Most people might not have an especially good view of the Commune (though it's
more widespread than just the far left) but virtually nobody sees the First
Empire as "a tough dictatorship".

The bloodshed of the revolution and the Empire are seen as necessary evils at
worst.

------
joelbluminator
I guess that's lovely news if you're into anarchy, idk, not seeing the romance
everyone else seems to see in this movement. France does need to reform hard
though, they are right about that.

------
raverbashing
Next they will complain about how road accidents have increased and how the
government is incompetent

------
seszett
In some areas (more rural places, Vendée for example) it was 100% of them
around Christmas.

Their positions are all well known, so it's rather easy to get them all, and
you are basically guaranteed impunity outside the largest cities since there
will be no cameras to know who did it.

------
chippy
Would you rather start an outdoors civil protest in the Winter or the Summer?

Its been proposed that Thatcher allowed the miners strike to occur but only
during the Summer when the effects of lack of coal (power cuts) would be less.

There's some speculation that Occupy Wall Street collapsed in the bitter cold.
Many UK riots seem to happen on warm summer nights.

Has anyone done an research or written about this? Can we expect the Yellow
Vests to be less successful in this winter than in the summer?

------
TomMarius
"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure
which takes money from the poor."

This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe.

EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the _" Some
protesters feel ..."_ part, which is what I meant - that many people in
central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that _I feel_ they're right
(what I think is irrelevant).

~~~
D_Guidi
the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

~~~
xxs
Sweden and Finland have fines based on the annual income.[0]

[0]: [https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-
elsewhere-31709454](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-
elsewhere-31709454)

~~~
gadders
Imagine if they caught Jeff Bezos. They could probably fund their entire
police force for several years.

[https://www.businessinsider.com/what-amazon-ceo-jeff-
bezos-m...](https://www.businessinsider.com/what-amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-makes-
every-day-hour-minute-2018-10?r=US&IR=T)

~~~
Xylakant
The nokia boss had to pay 116 000 EUR in 2002
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1759791.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1759791.stm)

------
Simulacra
Not the heroes we deserve but the heroes need.

------
goldenkey
Yellow vests were chosen as a symbol because, since 2008, a law had required
all French motorists to have high-visibility vests in their vehicles when
driving. As a result, reflective vests had become widely available,
inexpensive, and recognisable. [1]

Obligatory referenced video of the boxer vs police:
[https://youtu.be/iUw37-eNSxg](https://youtu.be/iUw37-eNSxg)

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement)

~~~
merb
From the video above, his statements are simply false.

~~~
goldenkey
It doesn't look like he was tear gassed - is that the statement you are
referring to?

------
tomohawk
Maybe there is hope for humanity after all.

