
Microsoft to do away with "Nokia" and "Lumia" branding - derfbwh
http://haverzine.com/2013/09/05/microsoft-to-do-away-with-nokia-and-lumia-branding/
======
JonFish85
Good. Any commercial I would see/hear about the Nokia Lumia 1020 Microsoft
Windows Phone powered by Verizon Wireless LTE, it drove me crazy. Cell phone
names are getting out of hand. Granted I love my Apple products, and
appreciate their ads: iPhone 5--bam I know what I'm getting--fairly sure most
ads don't even have to say "Apple". Why other vendors haven't followed suit, I
have no idea. "Samsung Galaxy S III with Android on an LTE network" is a
mouthful, and I have to think that your average person doesn't really _hear_
anything there.

~~~
roc
I think average people tuned out everything aside from "Galaxy", which Samsung
noticed and thus began Samsung Galaxy _Everything_.

~~~
yuhong
I remember reading that Compaq considered using a different brand for its low
cost PCs back in 1991 or so.

------
jpatokal
_Microsoft’s Surface brand has had several hits over the last year_

Uhh, such as...?

Ditching the Nokia name seems crazy to me: it's _universally_ recognized,
particularly outside the US. Any Indian slum or African village large enough
to have a phone dealer will have a Nokia ad plastered on it, whereas outside
our little incestous tech circles nobody has heard about the Surface.

~~~
SEMW
Article says they're ditching the Nokia name _for smartphones_ \- more
specifically, the Lumia line of smartphones running Windows Phone.

Says nothing about ditching the Nokia name for the (much, much larger)
Symbian-running feature phones lines, which have never used the Lumia
branding.

Nokia has a huge presence in the LEDC markets you mentioned, but the phones
they're pushing there were never Lumia Windows phones.

------
samsnelling
Lots of hate will come at me I'm sure, I think this is a good move for
Microsoft. We need a more unified Microsoft branding push. What we don't need
however, is more confusing unification (Surface RT will now become the Surface
in the next generation apparently).

I think it will be interesting to see if Microsoft goes with a one size fits
all model (ala Surface) or go with the lots of different form factors and
sizes that Nokia currently produces. Another interesting concern is how
Microsoft will attempt to leverage cell phone carriers. The Lumia 1020 is ATT
only with Elop saying they "are very happy with their current relationship
with ATT" and that the 1020 will not go to other carriers.

The cellphone market in the US is a weird one. With 2 out 4 carriers being
CDMA, and VoLTE reasonably being several years out from ubiquity... I'm not
sure how Microsoft will be able to force a carrier's hand like Apple did.

I'm looking forward to more thoughts on this. What does the rest of HN think?

~~~
Maarten88
I agree. If they don't do this now, they'll have many problems later. Maybe
they could brand everything ARM-based Lumia and brand the x86/PC based devices
Surface?

------
smacktoward
Now when they get rid of the "Windows" branding, they'll really be on to
something.

~~~
Cookingboy
They absolutely need to, one thing Microsoft is delusional about is the brand
image/value of "Windows". Just because it's the most popular OS in the world
does not mean all those consumers actively LOVE it. Branding everything the
company does with Windows only serve to make people wary of the product. I'm
glad they are switching away from "Windows Live" branding as well. Individual
distinct names are much better for new services.

I may be biased, but I actually think "Windows" is a toxic brand name, too
much bad legacy associated with the image from the past 20 years (monopoly,
insecurity, instability, etc). Imagine if they called XBox "Windows Gamebox"
instead.

~~~
dman
Maybe in the consumer space. In the enterprise people seem to like Windows
quite a bit (myself included). Code that youve written in the past continues
to run without much drama and these days Windows just gets out of the way and
just works.

~~~
ConceptJunkie
In my experience, the people who only feel like that are people who haven't
used Linux. I'm not trying to be a snot, but I've never met IT people who
liked Windows, or much of anything from Microsoft. Protip: Don't mention
Exchange.

~~~
pmelendez
I know a few that loves Active Directory.

On the other hand, in my current job my desktop machine is an Ubuntu box and I
still miss a lot of things from Windows. The only thing I like better in Linux
is the terminal, everything else still feel like a hobby PC.

I guess is just a matter of taste

------
fnordfnordfnord
What the heck did MS get out of this? A sales channel? They didn't get
engineers (didn't most of them flee?). And they obviously didn't want the
brand.

~~~
mmanfrin
Patents, supply chain.

~~~
LeafyGreenbriar
Supply chain yes, but not the patents. Microsoft receives a 10-year license to
Nokia's patents, but ownership of those patents will remain with Nokia.

------
fleitz
New Unified Branding: Microsoft Surface Phone w/ Microsoft Windows Phone 8
Urban Professional Edition for Enteprises.

~~~
m_mueller
*64bit German

(Yes they do still release every language version separately with Windows. Not
sure about Windows Phone. Welcome back in the 90ies)

------
devindotcom
The source article _does not_ say this.

"Microsoft will purchase the license to use the Nokia brand on mobile phones
for ten years. It will also buy the ‘Lumia’ and ‘Asha’ brands.

On smartphones, we’ll be seeking to create a unified brand across Lumia and
Windows. But we understand that the Asha and feature phone range will carry on
the ‘Nokia’ branding."

That is the totality of the text relating to this. The "unified brand" may
very well be "Introducing the Nokia 1030, powered by Windows Phone" for all we
know. Am I missing a piece of the discussion here? It seems like it would be
_massively_ wasteful and callous for Microsoft to throw away the cachet Nokia
has established with its highly recognizable, warmly regarded smartphones.

~~~
dolphenstein
Nokia ultimately own the brand. They could potentially enter the market again
in their own terms in 2016. Kind of stupid for Microsoft to invest too heavily
on the brand. I think they should buy Jolla and have another crack at it in
2016!

------
at-fates-hands
This is pure speculation on the part of the author. I have no idea how this
even made it to the front page.

It makes sense for MS to buy Nokia. They've had pretty good success with their
products:

[http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nokia-Lumia-520-owns-27-of-
Wi...](http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nokia-Lumia-520-owns-27-of-Windows-
Phone-8-market-model-numbers-leaked-for-Nokias-phablet_id46507)

"According to the latest data from AdDuplex's mobile advertising network, the
entry level Nokia Lumia 520 handset currently accounts for 27% of all Windows
Phone 8 models being used. Throw all Windows Phone models into the equation
and the Nokia Lumia 520 still accounts for a rather hefty 18% of Windows Phone
units in use today. In India, the Lumia 520 owns a whopping 36% of the Windows
Phone market while the high end Nokia Lumia 920 has just 4%. Low-end Windows
Phone models remain the majority of the phones outstanding. 57% of Windows
Phone 8 models currently in users' pockets sport only 512MB of RAM."

I'm hoping they keep the Nokia engineers. They're the ones who made the Lumia
phones as good as they are right now.

~~~
untog
It's not speculation. If I recall, the deal detailed exactly what MS had
bought and what they hadn't. The Nokia name is licensed, but only for
"dumbphones".

~~~
at-fates-hands
>>>> It's not speculation

"Rytilä says the move will be done in order to unify all of Microsoft’s
branding, which I’m personally translating to only one thing – the Lumia line
will become the Surface line, and Microsoft is absolutely planning on
releasing an actual, honest to god Surface Phone. By name.

Of course, that’s not really confirmed – that’s just an assumption"

So when the author admits it as their own assumption, that's not speculation??

------
Thiz
There isn't a brand in the whole world with such negative aura than microsoft.

~~~
outside1234
You mean the Hacker News world, right?

~~~
scholia
The sort of booby who thinks Microsoft is evil has obviously never heard of
Enron, Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, Halliburton, BP etc etc.

It's perfectly fine to use children as slave labor, destroy the environment or
actually kill people (eg Dow in Bhopal).

None of these is anything like as bad as paying American workers to write
useful software and sell it.

~~~
Peaker
Your point would come across better if you had mentioned monopolizing markets
illegally and other MS actions rather than the silly straw man there.

~~~
scholia
Straw man? You think these examples are not literally true?

Not sure if you have a clue what Microsoft actually did more than 15 years
ago, but if you think it was worse than using children as slave labor,
destroying swathes of the environment or killing people then I have pity on
your soul....

~~~
Peaker
No, I don't think what MS did is worse. But "writing useful software" was not
the reason they were hated. That's the strawman, and it detracts from your
argument.

~~~
scholia
Point taken, but it seems to me the thing that open source fanboys are
actually complaining about. Almost none of them knows what Microsoft is
supposed to have done.

~~~
Peaker
Some worse things:

Microsoft's OEM deals to throw out Netscape.

Bundling IE with their monopolistic OS to kill Netscape

Disallowing OEMs to sell computers with any OS but Windows (or demanding 3x
the price for Windows licenses).

Killing DR-DOS by having Windows refuse to start if it detects DR-DOS.

Funding and encouraging SCO's baseless lawsuit to create FUD around Linux.

And various other scandals.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft)

~~~
scholia
None of which ranks up there with killing people, or mass financial fraud,
even if they were true. Which several of them are not.

~~~
Peaker
I agree, but they are pretty bad. My point was specifically about underplaying
their illegal and immoral practices as "building useful software" which is not
conductive to useful discussion.

Which ones do you believe aren't true?

------
chiph
When I think of Nokia - I think of a solid, well-engineered device with
attractive Scandinavian styling that's going to last a long time. When I think
of Surface, I think of nothing in particular. Microsoft should let the Nokia
designers & engineers rework the Surface and RT as a Nokia device.

~~~
barista
That's the brand association though. Surface by itself is a well engineered
product.

~~~
potatolicious
I have one (the RT)... it's well-engineered, but it doesn't hold a candle to
the fit and finish that I've come to expect from Nokia. Personally I'd rather
they kept the Nokia branding, it's IMO stronger in the phone space than MS is.

Just clear up all that Lumia crap, the model numbering is insane and
impossible to figure out. I had to wiki it just now.

------
jpalomaki
The original piece in Nokia Conversations blog says: "On smartphones, we’ll be
seeking to create a unified brand across Lumia and Windows. " [1]

"Nokia" brand won't be used with smartphones but my understanding is that the
fate of "Lumia" is not yet decided. Personally I think it would make sense to
have "Lumia" smartphones and "Surface" tablets.

[1] [http://conversations.nokia.com/2013/09/04/whats-next-for-
lum...](http://conversations.nokia.com/2013/09/04/whats-next-for-lumia-and-
asha/)

------
nicholassmith
If they call it the Microsoft Surface Windows Phone 8
(Home/Professional/Student) then I'm done waiting for Microsoft to right the
ship. Naming is hard, but keep it simple stupid.

------
peteratt
I tend to think -- and I believe lots of HN people agree with me -- that
sticking a Microsoft on anything "solid" but an XBox has been quite a failure.
Good luck, Redmond!

~~~
sremani
Of Course, HN crowd will agree - most of them are a weird version of Linux
fanboys - the Linux fanboys at least know some *nix commands - the HN news
ones hate microsoft on their windows 7 desktops.

~~~
bitwize
I once described _AntiTrust_ as being a movie intended for people who browse
Slashdot from Internet Explorer.

I doubt that makes up the bulk of HNers.

Most of them probably use Macs.

------
colmvp
I must be the only one who liked the Lumia name brand, and I use an iPhone.
Maybe it's because it doesn't sound techy (Galaxy, One X) or trendy
(iSomething).

~~~
panacea
You're not alone! It's got a lovely ring to it. I've been using iPhones since
the day they came out, but have been seriously considering getting the Lumia
with the awesome camera.

I'm not going to buy a Microsoft phone though (as unreasonable as that may
sound).

------
lukeschlather
Headline is misleading. They're only ditching Nokia and Lumia for smartphones
- isn't the healthiest chunk of Nokia's business still feature phones?

------
Hansi
I understand the Nokia going away but I really liked the Lumia name. I find it
very fitting for a series of phones although obviously the numbers are just
silly.

~~~
woofyman
I think "Lumina". A mediocre Chevy car.

------
ceph_
Alternative headline: Microsoft throw away bathwater, baby

------
drakaal
"Duh" Microsoft has been moving all of their brands to "Xbox" Zune Music,
games in the App Store. I think this is the bigger story:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6337218](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6337218)
as it outlines what MSFT needs to do to get its $7 billion worth.

------
calbear81
From a reboot perspective, I think the name Surface is actually quite amazing.
It's a name that is both descriptive of the object but also a verb that
describes how information bubbles up and is delivered. The glass on your phone
is the surface underneath which is a world of information waiting to be
surfaced at your command.

------
pessimizer
I know I'm the only one, but every time I see "Lumia", I think "Lamia":
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Topsell-91.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Topsell-91.jpg)

------
LeafyGreenbriar
So this time next year we will have the Microsoft Surface 4, the Surface 4E
(or some other letter that really means "the cheaper one" and comes in fun
colors), the Surface 10.1, and the Surface 10.1 Professional Edition.

~~~
Splognosticus
You forgot Surface 10.1 Home and Student, which reserves the top quarter inch
of the screen for a message reminding you that you're not allowed to use it
for work.

~~~
ConceptJunkie
Don't forget the Surface Starter version that only lets you run 3 apps at
once... wait, that would be a step up.

------
ktavera
Microsoft has been desperately trying to consolidate their product line
branding for the last few years. it's not a surprise that they would bring in
a new device acquisition under their existing Surface brand.

------
hkarthik
My guess is they will create a whole new brand for their mobile devices and
shed the Microsoft name completely for anything but their software businesses.

~~~
amaks
yes, like Surface Phone?

~~~
hkarthik
Right now Surface refers to a model line. I suspect they'll go a step further
and create a whole brand called Surface.

If they're smart, they'll consider spinning it out of Microsoft completely
(while still holding a majority stake).

------
gojomo
Though note that per the deal, after 2015-12-31, old-Nokia will again be
allowed to offer phones with the 'Nokia' name. Weird, huh?

------
Nursie
Seriously? Then why bother with the whole thing at all?

~~~
ceejayoz
Uh... for the rest of the company?

------
amerika_blog
That's ridiculous. Nokia is an excellent brand and should be retained.

It's also helping teach American students Finnish geography.

