
I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything - mwill
http://www.theawl.com/2013/09/i-was-a-hated-hipster-meme-and-then-it-got-worse
======
potatolicious
Hipster-hate strikes me as just another thinly veiled form of bullying, and
it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are
disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it.

Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get
him!

It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly
into a rage-fest because of lack of context, only to make an about-face when
the full picture comes out. It's also interesting how no matter how many times
this _exact_ situation happens, there is no stopping the next rage-fest.

Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about
humanity.

~~~
agentultra
This is going to sound inflammatory but I basically consider anyone younger
than around 25 to be functionally _insane_. They're in a period in their life
where they seriously believe that they cannot spend the rest of their lives
with someone who doesn't have the same taste in music as they do. You're busy
cultivating a sense of identity, I get it. But more often than not you grow up
and find yourself in love with someone who likes everything you used to hate
and you find it endearing. It's not a bad thing and I try not to treat anyone
differently because of it... but young people pick on each other for these
sorts of things. That's pretty insane IMO.

 _Update_ I could probably justify this comment by making a point other than,
"young whipper snappers be cray, yo."

Hipster hate has been around for years. I find that it comes from young, self-
conscious people posturing and picking on other people based on the way they
look, the music they like, and other trivial things. It's cruel to pick on
other people for something so utterly trivial. There's nothing thinly veiled
about it, IMO: it's just bullying and it seems to be a phenomenon I strongly
attribute to young people.

Maybe that makes me an old, ignorant, ruddy-duddy but I seriously haven't
really heard someone over the age of 30 or so make snarky remarks about how
_so-and-so_ is _such a hipster douchebag._ They'd get funny looks and people
might think, "What is this, high school!?"

I think someone should make this a youtube video. Old people picking on other
old people for liking obscure bands young people have never heard of in forty
years. Calling them hipsters (a term that originated in the 50s beat movement,
no?).

~~~
pyrocat
Ageism is dumb, and I rally against it now as an adult as much as I did when I
was 15.

> "but I seriously haven't really heard someone over the age of 30 or so make
> snarky remarks about how so-and-so is such a hipster douchebag"

Maybe that's because you surround yourself with people who have similar
outlooks? That doesn't mean that all people over 30 are above high school
bullshit. And it certainly doesn't mean that all people under 25 are
perpetuating high school bullshit. There is really no reason to bring age into
this conversation at all. You're just confirming your own bias.

tl;dr condemn the behavior, not the demographic that _you feel_ is
representative of the behavior

~~~
webhat
I also think ageism is dumb, however the age - 25 - that he mentioned isn't an
arbitrary cut off point.

There have been studies, such as by the National Institutes of Health that
show that "the part of the brain that restrains risky behavior, including
reckless driving, and thinking skills is not fully developed until the age of
25." Meaning the Frontal Lobe and Prefrontal cortex have not yet matured until
25, that's the area of the brain area responsible for planning, prioritizing
and controlling impulses.

There is an amount of truth in this.

[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044371370457760...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443713704577601532208760746.html)

~~~
jlgreco
So does this have much to do with calling people "hipster" in a disparaging
way? And why "hipster", but seemingly not other insults (which >25 year olds
_certainly_ still make)?

He's just yelling at kids to get off his lawn and lacks the self-awareness to
pay attention to who's lawn _he_ is standing on while he does it. There aren't
any deep truths hidden in his comment.

~~~
webhat
Whose lawn is it?

~~~
jlgreco
Not his either? Before he yells at others to get off it, he should get off it
himself.

He is making a baseless judgement about an entire age group because he thinks
that age group makes baseless judgments. The lack of self awareness is
ludicrous.

~~~
ArloJamesBarnes
Can't we all just /share the lawn/?!

------
sharkweek
The front page of reddit can be a cruel mistress

My wife and I had one of our wedding pictures take the number one spot on
/r/all one day -- There was some rather embarrassing text super-imposed on it
that said "Oh you think married women still give BJs" (google Condescending
Wife to find it).

Despite some of the comments in the thread being pretty mean, my wife and I
took it in stride, we're both internet people, we get it; we thought it was
pretty funny all things considered --

The awkward part of all of this though, was this picture was EVERYWHERE for
about a day. All over Facebook, Tumblr, etc. So countless friends and family
inevitably saw it. I got a call from my concerned father, asking me if
everything was ok and if I had seen what the internet had been saying about me
and my wife. I explained to him that we didn't really mind and we left it
there as explaining reddit to him would have been near impossible. But it was
just a really surreal experience. We got dozens of texts and emails that day
all asking if we had seen the picture.

The best part of the the internet's short term memory is how quickly this
image found it's way into obscurity; to be completely forgotten. No ill harm
to my wife's nor my reputation.

~~~
adambard
I shaved half of my hair and half of my beard so that I'd have an interesting
driver's license, and posted the photos on Reddit. So I can't really complain
about someone else appropriating my image. But it did get big in a way I
didn't expect.

My mother found out when she went to yahoo.com to log into her email and I was
on the front page. My father-in-law was watching the local news and saw me
giving an interview. Two years later, I can bring out my driver's license at
parties and people remember it. But they don't remember me, just the photo, so
no harm done. (And happily, my domain has enough precidence on google to at
least appear first for searches of my name).

On the upside, if I ever meet Greg Proops or Ellen DeGeneres in person we'll
have something in common to talk about.

~~~
yannk
link: [http://1079ishot.com/man-shaves-half-his-head-beard-for-
dmv-...](http://1079ishot.com/man-shaves-half-his-head-beard-for-dmv-photo/)

------
revelation
_The website she referred to had a series of essays they dubbed “It Happened
To Me” that they sprinkled in amongst feminist-leaning news and features. “I
want to talk about how all of this makes me feel. You, all over the Internet,
right after you dumped me.”_

Does that seem bizarrely self absorbed to anyone else?

~~~
benched
I can definitely relate to the feeling. For a full 1.5 years after my ex and I
broke up, it felt like my friends were being deliberately cruel, first by
continuing to involve her in various events, then by continuously posting
about stuff they were doing with her on facebook. For a long time, it felt
like they were actively trying to push me out of the picture or drive me to
jump. The only difference is, this woman wrote an article about how that
feels.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Did you do things with your friends too during that time? Maybe it's just that
for them it's less awkward to hang out with either one of you than it is for
you two to hang out with each other, and they didn't realize that talking
about it on facebook would be awkward for you.

Don't you think it would be a bit demanding on your part if you wanted your
friends to stop hanging out with and being friends with your ex? Maybe you
should figure out how to get closure on your relationship and move forward in
a healthy manner rather than hoping that the rest of the world will coddle and
protect a wound that only you could possibly understand or be responsible for.

------
homosaur
It seems like the hipster-as-a-pejorative thing started around the total
collapse of the music industry in the mid-2000's and unfortunately was driven
by indie scenesters who resented the influx of popularity when say, Modest
Mouse had a song appear on say, One Tree Hill. The primary aesthetic religion
of the indie scene from punk onward, no matter what the genre or style, was
D.I.Y. so suburbanites who went to Hot Topic to grab Iron Maiden t-shirts were
profoundly reviled.

This happens in any insular subculture. Do I even need to mention the "geek
girl" bullshit?

The problem has quickly become that this revulsion has also played into the
jock-centric bullying of anyone who dares to be different--"my football coach
won't let me grow my hair long so now let me go punch that faggot with the
plastic frames" sort of crap. Any indie community that still exists needs to
rid itself of all this baggage for that reason alone.

Whatever utility the word "hipster" had as a pejorative, if any, is gone.
Internet killed pop culture and it's dead to stay. The most popular cartoon
character now is effing Grumpy Cat. Anyone should consider anyone else using
"hipster" as an offhand pejorative to be no greater than a classroom bully, no
different than calling someone a dweeb in the 1980s.

~~~
Dylan16807
>Do I even need to mention the "geek girl" bullshit?

The thing is, the 'geek girl' stereotype is something that almost never
happens, but as far as I understand it the stereotypical hipster is not
uncommon.

It _is_ possible to 'like' something the wrong way: namely where you do not
actually like it. Hipster hate isn't about being different, it's about a
perception of dishonest attention-seeking.

~~~
moutarde
> Hipster hate isn't about being different, it's about a perception of
> dishonest attention-seeking.

Isn't this the same justification that's used to shame the "pseudo" geek
girls?

~~~
Dylan16807
The justification is not the problem, it's the targets. People will give that
excuse even when it's a blatant lie.

As far as I am aware, the discussion of 'fake geek girls' has mostly come from
MRA-types that spend most of their time failing to see women as people. So any
particular instance of 'fake geek girl' is almost certainly the commenter
being an ass and wrong. But, again, as far as I am aware, there are no large
groups going around being 'anti-hipster' in situations where it doesn't fit.
So instances of being 'anti-hipster' are often accurate.

------
drcode
NEWSFLASH: If you're doing something specifically to get attention, it's
possible the attention you get might not be to your liking.

(Though I agree people should be more open to people doing fun performance-ish
stuff like this, it does not mean a performer is entitled to receive only
positive reactions.)

~~~
pdenya
I don't think you can expect this type of reaction from a performance. One of
the larger issues is that people don't get that it was a performance. Roughly
equivalent to taking a picture of a clown and making fun of him for his make
up as if he walks around like that in every situation.

~~~
drcode
If you do some kind of guerilla performance art, going around in public doing
weird stuff, then most people will probably not realize it's a performance.

Expecting otherwise seems irrational.

~~~
spuz
You are correct, but that's not the issue. The issue is not that people are
not able to jump to the right conclusion, it is that they jump to the wrong
conclusion.

------
sfbsfbsfb
I have the utmost respect for anyone that can take their natural (legal)
talent, go to a park and turn it into beer/food money in an hour or two. When
I met my wife she was substitute teaching occasionally and to make ends meet
she would do pencil portraits in the park. She would always wear a floppy hat
and a colorful long skirt. Back then (1975) she would have been referred to as
a hippy
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie)
:-) as opposed to a hipster. I remember sitting in her apartment and watching
her gleefully straighten and count a pile of small bills. Great times!

~~~
MartinCron
I work just up the street from Seattle's Pike Place Market where I see
talented street performers of all kinds. Guitarists, sax players, one guy with
a big parrot, magicians, everything. I don't see the idea of writing a super-
short story as any different.

Now I'm surprised I haven't seen it yet.

------
PhasmaFelis
Tangentially related, things like this are why I have not stopped wearing my
fedora (in appropriate situations, with appropriate outfits).

Dear Internet Fashionistas: You've decided that fedoras and suspenders are the
mark of a horrible person. Your opinions have no connection to reality. Over
here in the real world, I look good. When I come back to the bar the next day
to pick up my credit card, and the bouncer remembers me well enough to
compliment my outfit _from the previous night_ , that means I'm doing it
right.

~~~
nether
This and the obsession with t-shirts reminds me as to why I never take fashion
advice from HN.

~~~
jlgreco
What is the obsession with t-shirts?

~~~
Apocryphon
T-shirt obsession is really a universal techie thing. Everything from the
latest hip startup to the most stodgy of conventions give out t-shirts, often
sizes far too large for most people to wear.

~~~
jlgreco
I guess. T-shirts just seem like one of those hyper-cheap things that
companies can give out with their logo. Not much different than pens or foam
'stress toys'.

------
adt2bt
Related to his original idea: I think it's simply fantastic. Not only does it
help avoid writers block (You constantly have a stream of stories to create),
but it's forced practice. Nobody says Mozart's first few works were brilliant.
It wasn't until he practiced for years that he became a virtuoso. An approach
like this, while easy to view from the lens of simply making people happy, is
an investment in one's creativity and writing skill that will pay off in leaps
and bounds years down the line.

It's just so unfortunate that the internet makes it so hard. You're either
loved, hated, or ignored. He, thanks to an unlucky picture angle and loss of
context, fell into the 'hated' category by many. I applaud the effort to just
do it. It is funny how many view the real world as hard and the internet as an
easy escape, yet in his experience, it was just the opposite.

~~~
abraininavat
_You 're either loved, hated, or ignored_

I'm curious what you'd suggest as an alternative. To have strong, passionate,
but neutral, feelings about people?

~~~
resu_nimda
The alternative is to have less strong and passionate feelings. Like "Oh I
wouldn't really do that but that's cool that he is." Why would one need to
have such strong opinions about a random guy in a picture?

I think the point is that the hivemind/bandwagon/mob mentality pushes
everything to an extreme, because the people with more neutral opinions aren't
very motivated to post them.

------
peterwwillis
Cyber bullying kills kids. That's one thing to remember about all this. If he
had been a shaky, insecure, frightened teen, this kind of treatment can push
mild depression into thoughts of suicide. And many adults are also vulnerable
to this kind of abuse. If you see this happening to anyone, please, step up
and defend them.

~~~
GhotiFish
Please get them away from the internet, defending them will do literally
nothing. Bullying in schools is awful because children have absolutely no
recourse. They can't get away, they are forced in day after day. They have no
tools to mediate conflict.

Bullying on the internet is trivial, you arn't trapped, you arn't forced into
these situations. You can hide if you want to. You don't have to reveal who
you are. You can walk away. You can be anonymous. You _should_ be anonymous
anyway.

This article is about someone who suck his neck waaaay out, and got his head
bashed in for it. Don't do that.

~~~
user24
> Bullying on the internet is trivial, you arn't trapped, you arn't forced
> into these situations. You can hide if you want to.

Yeah, just stop going online, it's so simple! I know almost your entire social
life is online, and the identities we create online are increasingly hard-
linked to our real life identities, but all you have to do is exclude yourself
from everything that you enjoy doing online and you'll be fine!

~~~
GhotiFish
Now you know exactly why hard-linking your life online is such a horrifying
thing to do. You expose yourself to humanity. Bottom 0.1% included.

There's lots to do online that doesn't require a hard link to real life, and
everything that does require a hard link should be looked at with the most
rigorous of scrutiny and suspicion.

~~~
user24
tell that to a 14 year old when all her friends are on example.com, the hip
new place that just needs your real name to log in.

------
forgottenpaswrd
Well, being ridiculed by people in Reddit is something honorable. Who cares
what they think about you?

Don't lose your time with these people. Take a video camera and explain what
you do for people in the internet, youtube and vimeo...

Better, you could create a cool kickstarter project in which by the way, you
explain better what you do.

Never forget that being able to tell stories is one of the most important
abilities humans have, since hunters met at fire in the dark of the ancient
night.

Now FOCUS ON FEELING THE LOVE, not the pain. In my business the customer
support people used to ignore thousands of satisfied customers letters to
focus in the couple of crazy ones.

Don't dedicate neurons to them, don't think yourself the object of Internet
ridicule, because we see only validation. Find yourself as the object of
respect and love. You have my respect and validation and lots of other
people's too. Search for it and you will find it.

~~~
steve-howard
Sure, we all know that we should ignore people that get us down. It's a lot
easier for some than for others to put that into practice.

~~~
forgottenpaswrd
The first step for that is to acknowledge it.

Could you believe the people in customer service had not realized what they
were doing?

They were going home depressed, feeling so bad, because this focusing made
them live this reality.

Just making them notice and putting some simple rules made a world of
difference.It was also much better for our customers.

------
im3w1l
>Thinking about her own troubles in creating something viral, she remarked,
“It’s too bad you can’t figure out a way to exploit this somehow.” Other than
sometimes posting my Twitter handle on pages where I saw the picture, I
couldn’t do much.

Since this is hackernews, it would be interesting to discuss this portion.
What would be the best way to use this to propel oneself into success? It
seems he was granted a strong brand for free. Mostly negative, but also with
some positives. My idea would be to try to be even more hipstery, to really
validate peoples impressions, and then try to sell things associated with
hipsters: Second hand stuff. Organic, fair trade, hand made clothing. Maybe
try to appear in a commercial for glasses. I don't know much about marketing
so sorry if this is completely wrong. Just wanted to put some ideas out there
to start a discussion.

~~~
tripzilch
See now this is a good point. I was thinking along similar lines, reading the
article. Automatically thinking, "could this guy have handled this better?".

I want to make clear that I don't blame him, all he did was sell people live-
typewritten short stories in the park. It's quirky, nothing that deserves
Internet-wide ridicule (which happened because of the cropping of the photo,
not the quirkiness _per se_ ). Also I don't think his clothes are that out of
the ordinary, definitely on the "hipster" side as styles go, but many people
wear this style, and indeed if you're buying clothes on a budget there's often
not much choice: either you get something _really_ shabby, or you have to pick
one of the current youth main stream fashion styles. In that case I'd go with
"hipster" too.

Anyway, what I thought was, if right that day when he hit Reddit's FP, he'd
have made a simple webpage (could even be a Tumblr blog with one post in it)
with roughly the first part of the story in this article--aka what he actually
does and why he's doing it. Also, if he had one laying around, an uncropped
picture of him with the typewriter _and_ the sign.

The idea being, he explains that even in the Reddit thread (threads?) some
people came to his defence. Giving them something easy to link to, makes that
a lot easier. Especially if the topic comes up again on some other sub-reddit,
the whole shaming-then-"oh wait he's just trying to make a buck, sorry" can be
cut short if one of the first commenters just links to that page.

Basically what this does, is give you a communications medium back to your
audience. Yes he now has an audience. That's how it goes in the 21st century
sometimes.

Also write that URL tiny in the corner on the back of his paper. It's better
than a Twitter account.

------
sp332
I'm not claiming to have much fashion sense, but how is wearing giant plastic
glasses "sincerity"? Is it about self-expression? What sentiment do huge
glasses express?

 _The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters... they hated me because
I looked like I was nakedly desperate for attention, and had gone about that
attention-grabbing by glomming on to marginalized trends._

I thought that was the whole reason people didn't like hipsters. Now I'm
confused.

~~~
arrrg
I’m confused. Do you seriously have a problem with the kind of glasses someone
wears? I think you should re-evaluate how you view other people and stop being
so judgemental.

~~~
sp332
No, but I never thought of them as being "sincere" like the author claims.

------
techtalsky
Kind of recently, a close friend of mine took a picture of him and his wife
explaining something to their dog:
[http://i.imgur.com/bfpOGYK.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/bfpOGYK.jpg)

They're the sweetest, coolest, most open-minded people and I adore them.
They're not trying to act like they're better or more stylish than anyone
else, but the level of "hipster hate" they got in the thread was just intense.

~~~
scoot
I'm trying hard not to descend to the level of the hipster haters, but while I
don't see anything pretentious or stylish or cool, it does come across as a
tad absurd. Dogs are smart, but not _that_ smart.

~~~
hudibras
I'm going to unilaterally say that this thread is a one-time exception to the
"HN is not Reddit" rule and post this:
[http://i.imgur.com/3Gpey.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/3Gpey.jpg)

------
TomGullen
I keep saying it, taking photos of random people out in public not hurting
anyone for the intention of posting online and ridicule is one of the most
vulgar, inconsiderate modern phenomenons that seems to be socially acceptable.

Its the ugly, non creative side of accessibility in modern technology that
hurts people sometimes significantly. If someone did it to me, I would
probably be very hurt. "Look at this super ugly fat guy on my bus!" That ugly
fat guy might of just mustered enough courage over the last week to step
outside and as a result he gets ambushed in a hurtful demeaning way. It's not
just the post, imagine going outside and noticing people slyly trying to snap
pictures of you, how would you feel?

These sorts of posts are often veiled behind a thin curtain of pathetic
vacuous wit. People need to call this sort of behaviour out more.

~~~
drcode
He wasn't "random people", he was a guy doing a piece of performance art for
attention.

------
voyou
TBH I preferred this story when it was an Onion article:
[http://www.theonion.com/articles/two-hipsters-angrily-
call-e...](http://www.theonion.com/articles/two-hipsters-angrily-call-each-
other-hipster,5230/)

~~~
parfe
Portlandia has a similar joke

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA)

------
actionscripted
To add to the discussion/close the loop:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1mp79c/i_am_an_o...](http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1mp79c/i_am_an_object_of_internet_ridicule_ask_me/)

Having been on Reddit for more than 6 years, what always blows me away are
these "lessons". Sure, everyone backpedals a bit and thinks, "gee, he's not
the douchebag hipster we thought and we acted like assholes" but it happens
over, and over and over.

As others have also mentioned in here, I'm always amazed that those most prone
to being bullied seem more than okay taking on the role of bully online with
zero context.

~~~
3rd3
Being bullied once does not mean that you are immune to the temptation of
segregating someone. It still requires some thinking and empathy to withstand
that temptation.

------
D9u
I, myself, would have started, and stopped, with the last sentence:

    
    
      I prefer to let these little cesspools of cyberspace fester and then stagnate, forgotten as they should be, secure in the knowledge that I am doing something that matters to me.
    

As reddit is nothing other than a festering cesspool of cyberspace.

~~~
dwaltrip
There are good corners of reddit

~~~
SnydenBitchy
Yes, I’ve met some relatively decent neo-Nazis too.

------
eagsalazar2
Hipster hatred really baffles me. The only thing I've come up with is that
hipsters generally are people who actually are trying to live by their liberal
ideals of anti-consumerism. Yes they are into fashion as is everyone else,
that doesn't make them hypocrites.

People hate them because they make them feel bad by generally doing things
most people are too lazy to do themselves, not because they go around telling
everyone they are crappy or acting holier than thou. The act of recycling old
clothing is what offends people, not hipsters talking about it.

You know what is holier than thou? "Hipsters are hypocritical scum". I've
never been told anything like that by someone who is a hipster (except my
radical feminist lesbian sister-in-law and it isn't because she's a hipster)

------
altcognito
There were a whopping 229 comments in his thread where he was ridiculed by the
"internet". Star wars kid he is not. Hell, there are more comments in this
thread.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/ygfv7/spotted_on_the_hi...](http://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/ygfv7/spotted_on_the_highline/)

------
l33tbro
HIPSTERS ARE A MADE UP GROUP - POSSIBLY BY THE GOVERNMENT AND MI-5!!!

Sorry for the crazy-person all-caps, but this thing really crunches my
Funyuns. Hipsters are a totally made-up label to brand people with that are
into different shit. Would we have called Dylan a hipster (in the derogatory
sense, not the beatnik sense)? What about Steve Jobs in the early days? Shoot,
even Woz wore some pretty ironic bow-ties (definite hipster).

What's also a gas is that all these "hipster bashers" are so heck-darn
defensive of mainstream culture. We all acknowledge that Walmart is a
shithole. We all agree McDonalds is feeding garbage into our souls. So why are
people so darn defensive about people who are trying to explore different
things.

The "hipster" label is a sickeningly old cliche. Seriously. So-called
"hipster-bashing" has been going on for 10 years now (it all started with 'the
hipster handbook'. I've never really got it either. I mean, people don't
actively go out and go "right, I'm going to be a hipster". Like the amazing
roaming typist, these people are just interested in different things.

In my opinion, these "hipster bashers" are people that are just so obviously
insecure about their own lives. Why bash others, just because you can't step
out of your box.

Then again - maybe the definition of a hipster is someone who does actively
embrace the attributes of this made-up subculture to form an identity -
without understanding the depths of what they are appropriating. I must say, I
have not met anyone like this. Hence, why I think hipsters don't exist.

------
uptown
This is one of my favorite quotes:

"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things
upset you." -Lost in Translation

------
at-fates-hands
This was the best line for me during the argument between two Redditors:

"you do realize things have value even if they're not digitized, right"

Brilliant point and something that is sadly being lost in our evolving digital
community. As a former Anthropologist, we are leaving less and less artifacts
for those future civilizations to discover us by.

At times, it's incredibly depressing to me this is the case. How will people
know about the human race if our entire culture is wrapped up in bits and
bytes and discarded without a thought to their permanence? It will as though
we never existed.

~~~
unimpressive
>At times, it's incredibly depressing to me this is the case. How will people
know about the human race if our entire culture is wrapped up in bits and
bytes and discarded without a thought to their permanence? It will as though
we never existed.

You may want to talk to Jason Scott or other Internet Archivers. (He mostly
goes from physical to digital, but I'm sure this subject would interest him.)
In the meantime have some links:

[http://carlos.bueno.org/2010/09/paper-
internet.html](http://carlos.bueno.org/2010/09/paper-internet.html)

[http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/3613](http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/3613)

------
the_cat_kittles
The bottom line is, doing anything new puts you in a vulnerable position. Just
ask the people saying the truly mean-spirited insults- have you ever tried to
do anything new or different? The answer is pretty much "No". So, their
opinions really don't carry much weight. Negativity is just useless!

------
carlaas
I'm the one that took the picture and here is the uncropped version
([http://www.flickr.com/photos/crlnh/9818826176/](http://www.flickr.com/photos/crlnh/9818826176/)).
I didn't expect all this when I posted it on reddit

~~~
isxek
_Unfortunately, the two cute girls I was writing a story for are cropped out._

Looking at the whole picture now, it still doesn't appear evident (at least to
me) that the two ladies chatting beside him were waiting for their story to be
done.

I agree with the author: seeing his sign more would have put more context into
the picture.

------
philwelch
It doesn't surprise me that the Redditors responded with some contrition when
this guy confronted him while the commenters on the feminist blog didn't. This
kind of pack bullying behavior is only encouraged when you give the bullies an
ideological identity to justify their behavior.

------
mikestew
Masses of comments from people one has never met, and likely never will meet,
aren't much to be concerned about especially when the comments are based on a
single picture with no context. We all quickly build stories based on a single
glance or vastly incomplete information. "He looks like a douchebag marketing
guy." "The way she walks, she's probably one of those types that...", etc. The
really insecure among us go out of our way to post it online. That the Reddit
folk built a huge narrative out of a single picture doesn't surprise me.

My personal favorites are the anonymous internet tough guys: "if I ever met
him in person, I'd punch him". No, you wouldn't. You'd walk on by in silence,
thinking your snarky little thoughts and tell your friends about it later.
Because you, sir, have likely never been the first to throw a punch in your
entire life.

I'm not saying one is wrong in feeling a little sting in such comments. Maybe
it's too many years on Usenet, maybe it's spending way too much time on Xbox
Live ( _that_ will grow you a thick skin), but I just pay them no heed anymore
and let them wallow in their insecurity.

That's not to say that when my mother is referenced on Xbox Live that I don't
point out that the 68 year old woman would probably love some time with a
young, studly Call of Duty master like yourself.

~~~
badman_ting
I actually agree, but a weird thing happens to me where I get pissed at people
saying these things about someone else, or about groups of people. I can
totally let personal insults to myself roll off my back, because like you I've
seen a lot of internet.

And I agree that the face-punching probably won't actually happen in reality.
But the widespread phenomenon of supposedly normal or good people talking
about complete strangers having "punchable faces" feels ominous to me. I guess
my problem isn't with the insults as such, but rather the widespread cultural
acceptance this kind of attitude has gained.

Sorry, but you can't decide you hate someone based on their appearance and
also be a good person. That makes you a psycho. Look, we all do this to some
extent in private moments. But turning it into a group sport? And, again, the
acceptance of it all?

People who talked this way on the internet used to be called "internet tough
guys", and we scorned them. Now it's de rigeur. Maybe it's just the new form
of hating communists. Maybe we just need to have someone to hate, and it's not
that big a deal. But it feels bad to me, very bad.

------
delinka
I tend to group posts like this in with the recent attention on sexism in
tech, and it makes me ask ...

Why do people feel the need to be such assholes to other human beings? Why
should it ever matter what someone else does with their lives as long as it
doesn't interfere with your inalienable rights? Why should it ever matter to
anyone what color your skin is or what genitals you have if you get the job
done?

I just don't get hate in general.

~~~
prawn
It's a bit worrying that so many of the HN comments obsess over the
subjectiveness of labels and not on the vitriol.

------
alxndresp
I don't understand why people hate on others so much, for no reason at all.
What is the point? Just let people do whatever they damn like, it isn't like
their interests are affecting you. How do people grow this mentality? I have
never once negatively judged or put down someone because of some "weird"
interest they had, such as preferring to use a typewriter. I seriously don't
understand.

------
Yhippa
> I often wear tight jeans, big plastic-frame glasses, shirts bought at thrift
> stores.

... and then later ...

> And that my wardrobe was more a function of my budget than hipster
> assimilation.

To me his style comes off as hipster assimilation. Am I missing something?

~~~
darylgab
You can get jeans for $30, glasses for $50, and shirts for $10, at Costco. If
this guy's concern is really about a budget, he is bad at budgeting.

~~~
veemjeem
To be fair, Costco is definitely not the cheapest place to buy clothing. Plus
the author lives in NYC which probably doesn't have that many large Costco
facilities near subway.

~~~
andrewpi
Actually NYC has several Costcos within range of the subway.

------
mturmon
One of several worthwhile remarks in the article:

"For all the hateful words that were lobbed at me, it barely ever bubbled over
from the world of online forums and websites."

This is also true of political forums. Many people complain on-line, but these
people rarely show up at the council meeting to actually make a real-world
difference.

------
richardlblair
The most amazing thing about this story is that he stayed true to himself. He
continued to do his thing, went to the park, did some typin'. I think that is
pretty awesome! Why do I think that? Because fuck everybody else. Hater's
gunna hate.

------
nickthemagicman
At least 4chan hates everyone equally.

~~~
astrodust
Even themselves.

------
cobbzilla
I was in NOLA in February and thought this street poet was quite entertaining:
[http://www.tout.com/m/hitche](http://www.tout.com/m/hitche) and his
typewriter is older & cooler :)

I don't care how more street authors and poets "steal" this idea. Please copy,
adapt, iterate, mutate, spread.... that's what culture is all about.
Improvisational public writing is awesome on so many levels.

~~~
isxek
I remember reading somewhere about Harlan Ellison doing the same thing during
a science fiction world convention many years ago, after which Ben Bova (then
editor-in-chief for Analog sci-fi magazine) bought the whole piece.

In other words, yeah, I'd like to see more of this.

------
ahoge
Opinions on the internet are always extremely distorted. It's not like a
survey where you make a bunch of random people answer some questions. It's
several cycles of selection bias and network effects. It's kinda bizarre,
actually.

In general, most people are indifferent. They won't feel compelled to comment
on it. Naturally, you only get comments by people who have a sufficiently
strong opinion on that particular topic. If you now add voting to the mix, you
emphasize this distortion even more.

Now, the reason why it works this way is because it makes it interesting to
those who participate in these discussions. That's the primary goal:
encouraging user interaction.

It does not paint an objective picture of the community's opinion.

\--

When I first saw that image about a year ago, I just thought he tried to
create a distraction-free environment on a low budget.

I had no reason to comment on it.

If I had commented on it, my comment wouldn't have received many upvotes,
because it wouldn't be aligned with this particular audience. That is, those
who'd feel compelled to comment on this kind of picture.

------
kilroy123
I would not at all worry about what reddit users think and say about you...
Especially since it's mostly just mid-twenty to 30 years olds. [1]

IMO - reddit comments have gotten worst over time. While not youtube comments,
bad. It's getting there.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit#Demographics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit#Demographics)

~~~
fernandotakai
default subreddits are just plain bad - but if you go to smaller ones (or,
even better, highly moderated like /r/askscience or /r/askhistorians), it gets
a lot better.

------
ateevchopra
By the time I reached the middle of the post, i had totally forgot how i got
here. How i got to this page, this awesome piece of article. I totally forgot
this was on the top of HN. Now that's the power of your storytelling. i just
loved it. it felt like i was sitting beside you and you were telling me your
story. Awesome storytelling abilities. Thumbs Up !

------
protomyth
It just saddens me when someone is doing something unique or looks different
and people have nothing better to do than trash talk.

I get the feeling that our lack of ability to deal with actual mental health
issues as a society can be seen in the general reaction to the healthy,
spirited, marching to their own drummer folks.

------
benjvi
"The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters. It was a hatred of
people that need to stand out for standing-out's sake."

Isn't this close to the most common understanding of the word "hipster"?
People that are middle-class, want to stand out, and also come off as a bit
arty.

------
exodust
The "hate" that he talks about is not actually hate. People who make fun of
others on the internet are often just having a go at comedy in the spirit of
"The Roast" where jokes often cross the line but everyone is fine with it
because it's "a roasting".

It's the same thing online. The thread begins with "how can we make fun of
this person", and people join in and have a go at being a comedian. Obviously,
amateur comedians will always step over the line without evening knowing it.
And by amateur comedians I also mean professional writers who aren't known for
their Roasting Humor, but will have a go anyway (ie, NY Times writes and so
on).

------
fnbaptiste
This is a cool idea. If I was walking down the street with the lady I would
totally pay this guy to write us a story. This post however is way too long
for me to read. I get the idea though and it's great. I like it.

------
DigitalSea
Stories like this make me feel bad for naming my music blog Killhipsters. I
think Reddit have proven one too many times that they're good at jumping to
conclusions and ruining lives, look no further than the Boston Marathon
bombing fiasco where many Redditors incorrectly blamed someone for the bombing
and started a flurry of unwanted media attention. While the name of my music
blog is a comedic take on the hatred people have for hipsters, I think it's
sickening if anyone has a real hate for hipsters beyond jokingly on the
internet or between friends...

------
guelo
Why can't we just upvote this kind of story on Reddit and leave it there?

------
PhasmaFelis
The only valid definition of "hipster" is "someone who cares whether people
are 'hipster' or not."

With that firmly in mind: fuck hipsters.

~~~
chris_wot
Uh, by your own definition you care whether a person is a hipster so you can
tell them o go fuck themselves. Doesn't this make you a hipster?

What's it like to tell yourself to get fucked?

~~~
PhasmaFelis
That was the joke, yes.

~~~
chris_wot
I feel awkward now. Whoops.

------
ap22213
Seems more a problem of celebrity than anything.

Do what successful authors, artists, musicians, actors (anyone creative) do:
Don't listen to what others say.

------
Sarkie
It is like the record player meme.

[http://www.stuffistumbledupon.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/06...](http://www.stuffistumbledupon.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/06/How-to-be-a-hipster-portable-record-player-ultimate-
hipster-meme_thumb.jpg)

He is actually at a record shop where you can test the records before you buy
them, to test the quality.

------
kyro
If everyone's public, online comments were tied to their real, physical
identity, would the internet on a whole be a more pleasant place? I don't see
the type of vitriolic comment threads on Facebook that I see on Reddit. What
would be the long term implications of that? Is online anonymity in a public
forum a right that we have?

~~~
makomk
Nope. One of the nastiest internet conversations I've seen was on Facebook
with everyone using their real, often respectable identities. (A feminist
organisation decided to take a stand against transphobia by other feminists. I
think they eventually ended up deleting the entire post and all comments on it
because the reaction was so nasty - accusations of supporting pedophilia and
all sorts.)

------
djmollusk
I was expecting to read something about Christian Weston Chandler. That guy is
an object of internet ridicule like no other.

------
sequoia

        Then they'd shake their head and tell me that the idea and the execution were “genius.”
    

Modest, too!

------
Fuxy
Here's a good example of how we judge people by there appearance.

We're not all photogenic or very aware of our appearance we may actually look
like something we are not. Like this guy.

He may look like a hipster but he's just an average guys trying to get by.

The lesson is simple. Don't judge people on how they look talk to them and
then decide.

------
kbart
Clever marketing I would say. Now he could make tons of money just by selling
printed stories via mail.

------
danielrhodes
I always find it interesting how people are eventually drawn towards the
things they are naturally talented at. In this case, he is an excellent writer
and so perhaps this flash of inspiration to write stories for people wasn't as
sudden as it may have seemed.

------
jhonovich
Is this satire or is this a real person?

edit: I guess it is a real person but this reads like an Onion piece.

------
piratebroadcast
This guy used to be my dog walker inBoston, not kidding. In the South End.

------
fmax30
Am I the only one who doesn't even remotely know who this guy is ?

------
timmyelliot
It seems like walking around with a typewriter on your lap, no matter what
decade, would have been seen as <slightly> odd, and would have gotten positive
as well as negative responses.

------
bliti
I wonder what would happen if I did the same thing but with programs.

~~~
jes5199
programs aren't very interesting

~~~
bliti
One just sold $800MM in one day.

~~~
jes5199
lots of boring things cost a lot of money

------
penrod
Making a big fuss about the internet hating you is _so_ hipster.

------
newobj
How is this news for hackers? I can't take it anymore. Bye.

------
lnanek2
front page of hacker news too now. congrats to him! kind of hard luck about
the sign text not being in the picture, though. would have helped his business

~~~
isxek
...and (probably) helped him avoid all this hate.

------
SkyMarshal
One more reason to unsubscribe from all of the default reddits.

There's quality stuff on reddit, but's buried several degrees away from the
frontpage subs.

------
kyzyl
There's been a lot of talk about hipsters in these comments. Could somebody
explain to me, in any concrete terms, what the hell a hipster is?

~~~
kyzyl
Didn't think so.

------
KaoruAoiShiho
Have you tried [http://anonquest.com](http://anonquest.com)

It's basically the internet version of what you're doing.

------
Grue3
This post did little to convince me that the hate was unjustified. This guy is
such a stereotypical hipster it's not even funny.

------
barking
I want to see some of this guy's 10 minute stories before deciding his fate...

------
nether
I just don't like all the dashes. It's like jumpcut editing for text.

------
gadders
I think this is a pretty good summary of why hipsters are such an object of
ridicule: [http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/how-to-
live-...](http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/how-to-live-without-
irony/?_r=0)

~~~
kazagistar
I could not actually extract a single argument for why it would be OK to
dislike hipsters. This is poor written even for the standards of people trying
to rationalize irrational emotions. The best I can find is "hipsters cannot
talk about important issues, and prevent societal progress", which I somehow
have a difficult time seeing any reason to believe, but I guess it is a
reason.

Its just social signaling. Like much social signaling, it works better if it
upsets preexisting social norms. Its really not that complicated.

------
idealform01
it was a pretty interesting read, however by posting this isn't it only going
to start the hate cycle over again? unless thats what the goal here is...
can't fight the internet with a typewriter

------
JeremyMorgan
Why do people care so much about how other people dress?

~~~
NovemberWest
There are quite a lot of reasons. But I imagine you were being rhetorical and
do not want to discuss pecking order and a lot of other social stuff. :-)

But have an upvote.

------
leandrod
Serves you right for dumping your common law wife.

------
conch
But... he _is_ a hipster. I don't hate hipsters because they're different: I
hate them because they're the contemporary version of dandies.

------
bolder88
Internet commenting is a cesspool of idiocy. Hivemind, kneejerk reactions,
things taken out of context like this.

It's an absolute waste of time commenting on anything online, because there is
an absolutely inexhaustible supply of people who are wrong.

(Yes I realise the irony).

------
michaelochurch
Hipster diagnosis fail. Guy has a work ethic-- enough to actually finish
writing projects-- and is therefore, by definition, not a hipster.

~~~
maldeh
the whole problem likely stems from this very bothersome definition of a
hipster. At a baseline, a hipster is simply "a person who follows trends and
fashions in an ironic way". Different people have these other nuances and
qualifiers that are applied inconsistently... "they're not a hipster unless
they're also shallow and facile"... "hipsters are attention seekers"... "a
hipster is somebody who tries to be one, until it stops being cool" and so on.

What irks me about these various definitions is that it's as if people are
having an academic debate about which pejorative or negative stereotype
deserves to be christened a "hipster", when there's already a very diverse and
complex community in existence that self-identifies as such. The only context
I see such a debate making sense is when people have a perverse need to
somehow preserve their ire and rage against the word "hipster" after being
confronted with wholesome, happy counter-examples.

This poor bloke is a guy whom a lot of regular people would quickly slot down
as a hipster, just from his looks and habits. He probably self-identifies as
one too (because, hey, he likes the same music and dresses the same and it's
always nice to have a sense of community with like minds). And there ought not
be anything wrong with it. Yet there's an active hipster-hate community that's
not going to drill down into his benign motivations before shredding him up.

So what appears to be the way forward here? Collectively agreeing that it's
high time to dial back the rhetoric on hipsters? Or telling the guy who thinks
he's a hipster that he's not really a hipster because hipsters are supposed to
be jerkfaces?

------
brokenparser
(Emphasis mine)

    
    
      ..it was dozens of someones—*faceless and impossible to control*
    

Strike 1.

    
    
      I asked...if she would *let me read a draft before she sent it*
      to her editor... ...I ranted back to her, *mad that she hadn’t
      sent me the article*
    

Strike 2.

    
    
      ...the hipster label is a compliment, a devotion to a *self-
      evident truth*
    

Strike 3.

This guy isn't hipster, he's sinister.

~~~
notReallyGuy
Please explain how the internet is not populated a teeming mass of faceless
opportunists, deliberately avoiding any and all efforts to be controlled. You
are fucking wrong.

Your fragments in strike two are literally paragraphs apart, and ignore huge
details that add context. But even so, there's nothing evil about asking
someone you know personally, when they've openly told you they're going to
write about you, if you can read it before it goes live. And very obviously,
they're both professional writers, so it's actually a pretty collegial
courtesy that acquaintances extend to one another. It doesn't grant him any
undue influence over her creative process. Asking for that isn't wrong.

And nothing but _MEH_ for your third strike against the guy. Both of you are
entitled to your opinions, and I'm entitled to my opinion of your opinions.

Your classification of "sinister" is head-up-your-ass unfounded, sir. You
deserve more downvotes.

~~~
brokenparser
Please turn off your computer, go outside, and have some fresh air. Your
health is important to me regardless of how often you create a new account
just to pull an XKCD 386 with foul language.

~~~
Ygg2
Strike 1/2/3:

    
    
       I asked.. to.. Strike.. hipsters
    

Hurray! I can misquote as well :D

------
x0054
Why on earth is this on the front page of hacker news. I understand that HN is
not all about tech, and interesting articles of all kinds should percolate up.
But why is this at the very top for so long. It's about Internet hate, and we
all know that Internet hate is due to the anonymity that Internet provides,
nothing more or less.

This has little to do with hipsters or counter culture. SOME People on reddit
don't hate hipsters, or puppies, or anything else. They just hate, period.
They hate because there is a % of human population which just likes to hate.
Think about the Sexual Harasment Panda episode of South Park and the "we don't
take kindly to..." line from it. That kind of attitude + anonymity = net hate.
The good thing is, net hate very rarely = real life.

Any way, I think this guy is pretty cool. And it makes perfect sense to me
that he uses a typewriter. He sells stories to tourists. He needs to give them
a physical object, rather then an email, to inspire them to give him money in
return. I know I would pay more money for a story written on a typewriter and
given to me, rather then one emailed to me for the following reasons:

1\. I know it's original, or at least typed just for me. 2\. I will own the
only exact copy of it. 3\. I know some one actually spent time to type it out,
which takes skills and effort.

Besides, if he wants to give people a hard copy, what is he supposed to do,
lug a printer and power generator with him.

~~~
jamesmiller5
Actually, I found it to be one of the best links that has come up in the last
few days on HN. It, to me, is a critical look at what ways these amazing tools
created by the tech community are used for.

For example, reading the comments about him before his reply show a case of
the fundamental attribution error on most of the commentators parts, ie
assuming he is a 'hipster' and 'stand out for standing-out's sake'. As soon as
he revealed the financial reasons for his dress and actions a lot of the
stereotyping/prejudicial comments were stopped as well. That to me is
interesting and worthy of studying. Perhaps the use of a typewriter set off
the tech community, it seems quite a few both here and in the original article
declare it a novelty and inferior to more technical means.

To answer your question, sure anonymity enables the hate to flow out but why
was it present in the first place? How are the tools we are building to give
people such power being used and what can we do to make sure people such as
himself have a way to be understood? At least the article brings such topics
up :)

