
When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid' - caleb_thompson
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/when-the-boss-says-dont-tell-your-coworkers-how-much-you-get-paid/374467/
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dalke
In the last few years I've been surprised to learn just how many legal
protections we have in the workplace. Neither I nor most of my friends, for
example, know much about Title VII anti-discrimination protections, and many
thought they had far fewer protections than they actually do.

When are we, as workers, supposed to learn about these workplace laws? In high
school, my law and government classes never talked about them. In college, the
CS program had a semester on ethics which included copyright and patents, but
not on workplace law. My wife's business courses, OTOH, did cover them.

Some organizations have HR training for employees, but the usual primary goal
of HR seems to be to keep the company from being sued for breaking the law,
which is different than educating people about their legal rights.

Unions would be one possible sort of education, but there isn't much
unionization in software development in the US. Trade schools might be
another, but the US leans strongly towards university-style academic training
than trade schools.

The best I've come up with is a talk, workshop, booth, open space, etc. as
part of tech conferences. But I don't know enough to do that, nor do I know
anyone who can.

~~~
dale_carnegie
The problem isn't that people don't know about them, but even if people knew
about them, most wouldn't use their right. Legal protections really only
matter _after_ you have been fired. If you exercise your protections while you
are still employed, in most states the employer can just wait a month or two
and then fire you for something unrelated. Even if they don't fire you and
grudgingly put in place the changes, chances are it will simply create a work
environment of distrust. Not to mention your vertical mobility in the company
is now ruined, since who wants to promote someone who rocks the boat.

In most cases, if you are lucky enough to have the freedom to do so, it is
better to simply quit your job and find someplace that follows the rules and
respects you from the get-go.

~~~
dalke
Your last comment got me to wondering - how does one tell if workplace follows
the rules, etc. from the get-go? Perhaps a Joel-like list of questions to ask?
If most of the employees during the interview can explain the difference
between 'quid pro quo' and 'hostile environment' harassment, then they
probably have a good understanding of EEOC guidelines.

As to your first paragraph, I think you're right, except that it's also a
numbers issue. For example, Title VII case law and EEOC guidelines are very
clear that complaints about illegal discrimination are not required to go
through formal/predefined channels. But in my discussions with people, many
believe that it's okay for management to ignore complaints made outside of
channels. (Some even think it's okay for management to punish those who didn't
go through formal channels.)

My optimistic belief is that if 95% of the people knew the law, instead of 5%,
then it would be harder for management to carry out those illegal actions. Not
impossible of course, just harder.

I think your comment "create a work environment of distrust" is interesting. I
would think that breaking workplace law also creates a work environment of
distrust. Why is it often that the employee who complains is accused of
distrust, rather than the lawbreaker? I recognize that it's common, but I
don't know why.

I can't see it as simply an aversion to rocking the boat, as the employer
started the rocking, not the employee. My first thought was that it's simply a
power asymmetry, but I think there's also a dark side even in egalitarian
teams where people don't want to face up to the dirty laundry and prefer
denial ("no one talks about Uncle XYZ's 'problem' with little children").

It's essentially the same with those who report fraud, waste, mismanagement,
illegal activities, etc. Many have written about reasons why whistle blowers
are often reviled - something I also don't really understand. ... I'm
therefore somewhat relieved to know that no one really can explain why. The
2011 paper at
[http://www.vu.nl/nl/Images/Artikel%20Paul%20van%20Lange_tcm9...](http://www.vu.nl/nl/Images/Artikel%20Paul%20van%20Lange_tcm9-259358.pdf)
says "We have no evidence based answers" to the question of why some people
blow the whistle instead of obeying.

Thanks for your comments - coming up with a response helped me understand my
own thoughts better.

------
wldcordeiro
To me this thing where employers tell you not to discuss your pay always
seemed like a strategy to keep wages low. I think if anything should be
discussed freely between employees it's wages. I could see this being
something that contributes to employees that stay with companies making less
than those that move around. Those that stay around don't talk about wages and
don't see how much they're getting screwed by their employers.

------
warmfuzzykitten
Unless we all make the same amount, I truly don't want to know what my co-
workers in the same pay grade make, and vice versa. I'm human and subject to
jealousy, which can bring out all sorts of bad behavior. Knowing that someone
else makes significantly more than I do for the same work - or as I would be
all too quick to judge, for less than the same work - would be corrosive. My
co-workers are human, too. I can accept with only a little residual bitterness
that people in higher pay grades (executives!!) are often paid outlandishly
more, but I don't want to know about my peers.

~~~
click170
I _do_ want to know what my colleagues make.

I want to know that the intern sitting across from me didn't get an unfair
deal from HR when they started, like I did at a previous employer. Not
everyone knows to check GlassDoor, and not everyone is good at negotiating,
but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a fair (market) rate.

I want to know that the guy in the senior role in the corner who gets a lot
done is paid appropriately for his work, because if he isn't then he's liable
to find a company that will, and that would be a bigger loss for us than
losing a few dollars to his pay check. This has happened at every tech job
I've ever had -- so maybe I'm just thinking totally wrong about this, but I'd
like to know why if I am.

I want to know that my female colleague is not falling victim to sexism in the
paycheck.

I want to know if I'm working for a company that abuses colleagues, and this
is one of the ways of spotting that.

I understand that jealousy can be an issue for some people (myself included),
but in my opinion your effort should be put into analyzing why your feeling
that jealousy. There are times when I notice jealousy in myself, but when I
stop and look at what I'm jealous at almost every time the other person is
deserving of what they got. I take it as a learning experience, a sign that
there is room for improvement in yourself.

