
Betrayed by the Android UI [slides] - PieUser
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ya2BThnbkXzAtXR3zh9SAiLAZ_mC3nYt8Zxm-KAIqZ4/mobilepresent?slide=id.p
======
cheesedoodle
Talk: [https://youtu.be/BmXaMaxx7OY](https://youtu.be/BmXaMaxx7OY)

And/or [https://youtu.be/FRpcGwCedZ0](https://youtu.be/FRpcGwCedZ0)

------
makecheck
There should be some very basic safeguards to help users discern what is
“real” in the UI:

1\. Every user should be able to select a custom color and pattern, e.g. to
display around the border of system UI. This should be stored in such a
fashion that an app can’t simply “guess” what color/pattern to show in a fake
UI.

2\. Part of the “set up new device” overview for all new users should be to
remind them what the UI is supposed to look like.

3\. For crying out loud can we move away from these simplistic, ugly UIs. I’m
tired of looking at unimaginative colored rectangles on machines capable of
displaying cool, photo-realistic artwork. Make Google/Apple/etc. hire entire
teams of hundreds of artists to create cool, extremely-difficult-to-render UIs
with beautiful buttons, etc. and then bad actors won’t be able to just hack
together a real-looking UI in 5 minutes.

~~~
EForEndeavour
> For crying out loud can we move away from these simplistic, ugly UIs. I’m
> tired of looking at unimaginative colored rectangles on machines capable of
> displaying cool, photo-realistic artwork. Make Google/Apple/etc. hire entire
> teams of hundreds of artists to create cool, extremely-difficult-to-render
> UIs with beautiful buttons, etc. and then bad actors won’t be able to just
> hack together a real-looking UI in 5 minutes.

While I agree that today's phone UIs are boring, I don't think replacing them
with photorealistic, "extremely-difficult-to-render" UIs is a good idea -- nor
would that protect against imitation by malicious app publishers.

Usability would go straight out the window. Every menu in every app would
become an assault on the eyes, or at least an incredible nuisance. UI elements
should be clear and consistent, and should stay out of the way.

~~~
makecheck
There are lots of ways to render beautiful, unobtrusive UIs that are difficult
to emulate. For instance, a Retina-detail polished metal button would be
readable and look good but it would be non-trivial to recreate (unlike our
current login dialogs that could practically be recreated in MS Paint). It
would be especially secure if it included personal information, e.g. an
etched-in-metal appearance of your full name.

------
i386
Slide decks like that make me happy that Apple make developers jump through a
few extra constraints and approval loops.

~~~
on_and_off
I have been working on both platform for a while.

Sorry but I don't believe the App Store approval process make any difference
in that regard.

Apple does make your app run in a sandbox to try to detect known malware, just
like Google does for the play store.

As for the other parts of the review process, 99% of why they are here seem to
be to protect's Apple interests (cf spotify).

~~~
saagarjha
App Store review isn't great, but iOS's implementation of these APIs (or lack
thereof) are _very_ effective.

------
Markoff
why is this not available as static webpage? it's difficult to read as slides

~~~
BLanen
Or just a pdf.

~~~
rahimnathwani
You can download it as a PDF here (File -> Download as -> PDF):

[https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ya2BThnbkXzAtXR3zh9S...](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ya2BThnbkXzAtXR3zh9SAiLAZ_mC3nYt8Zxm-
KAIqZ4/edit#slide=id.p)

------
rqs
Slide 17:

Google: Hey so we had this new thing called FLAG_WINDOW_IS_OBSCURED

Me: Really? Google? You're going to fix your problem by telling everybody to
watch out your problems?

------
walty8
Just curious, is this restricted to Android only?

~~~
gbear605
A lot of this is not possible in iOS, because it doesn’t allow drawing on top
of alert type messages. The attacks relating to password managers are probably
still relevant. Possibly so are the ones relating to accessibility, although I
don’t think iOS allows accessibility controls access like Android does.

~~~
chii
So the question is whether the trade-off of accessibility capabilities worth
the decrease in security?

~~~
henvic
In general terms, iOS accessibility is far greater than Android's.

I would say this is more akin to a feature than accessibility, in practical
means...

~~~
saagarjha
iOS does accessibility natively and does not allow apps access to it to the
extent that Android does, AFAIK.

------
rovyko
Interesting slides, I wish we could hear the presentation audio. What's going
on in slide 22?

~~~
saagarjha
I believe it's demonstrating accessibility attacks (though, I don't have the
audio myself so I could be wrong). In the first case it looks like the
password text field is blocked so accessibility is used to grab the code while
the user types it in, in the second a two-factor code is pulled from the
Authenticator app, and in the last the phone's passcode is recorded as the
user types it in?

Edit: watched the video of the talk linked above; the above descriptions seem
to be accurate

