
Ask HN: can I transfer a $6,000 Kindle book onto PC, DRM-free? - old-gregg
After spending some time on Amazon and googling a little bit, it appears all my books I buy for Kindle will disappear once I throw the device away in 2 years. [inevitable fate of all portable electronics]<p>I'm very disappointed but as a last resort decided to ask allmighty HN community if this is true.<p>If so, I am astonished, frankly... Books aren't MP3s, I actually do want many most of them to be around forever. So can I transform Amazon books into PDFs? Or maybe into some other standard ebook format? (I have never owned an ebook before).<p>Also, maybe there are other <i>big</i> book stores that sell DRM-free books? (although I'd prefer to hack Amazon's - it's just too damn convenient)<p>Imagine buying a book for $6,400 and loosing it only because your Kindle breaks and Amazon decides to ditch the product a year later.<p>BTW yes, $6,400 Kindle book exists:<p>http://www.amazon.com/Selected-Nuclear-Materials-Engineering-ebook/dp/B001QTVXAK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#38;s=digital-text&#38;qid=1240809725&#38;sr=1-1
======
jrockway
The files are in a standard format (mobipocket with the extension changed to
azw). They do have Amazon DRM on them, but you can still back them up over the
USB connection.

You can of course also break the DRM; the program to do that is here:
<http://www.mininova.org/tor/1412688>.

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spkthed
It's really simple. Amazon may make things convenient, but, they're also
holding you to their beck and whim with these devices. Hold out until you can
can own drm-free software and products so you can actually _own_ things. If
you don't, you're leasing something from Amazon and stealing it if you break
the DRM.

Support fair business practices. DRM isn't.

~~~
old-gregg
Jesus... Looks like I'm sticking to laptops + PDFs. From product reviews:

 _"... if your Kindle 1 breaks or you purchase a Kindle 2 all your Newspaper
and Magazine issues will be UNREADABLE on the replacement or new device ..."_

Here is one more, seems like committing to electronic formats you're asking
for trouble _even when upgrading to another version_ of the same product:

 _"... I have a tremendous volume of Kindle content (public domain and
Amazon). I discovered that I could not directly transfer from my computer
backup for Kindle 1 to the new K2 ..."_

Another one:

 _"... Although Amazon says it keeps you content on their server, I found many
instances where I could not download my books to my computer because the item
THAT I PAID FOR was not available for download to my new Kindle2..."_

~~~
mapleoin
But really... There are other ebook readers besides the kindle..

iRex let you use open formats, and the software is also opensource and in
continuous development: <http://www.irextechnologies.com/>

~~~
Zev
A lot of the Kindle's source is Open Source as well, under a GPL license.
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200203720)

------
ramchip
Amusingly: _Selected Nuclear Materials and Engineering Systems (Part 4)
(Kindle Edition)_

What Do Customers Ultimately Buy After Viewing This Item?

20% buy The Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) 3.6 out of 5 stars (24)

~~~
trapper
I don't find that amusing, just scary!

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miles
In my opinion, the Kindle is not as useful as an eBook reader (due to DRM,
etc), as it is a text-based web browser with free Internet access:

[http://tinyapps.org/weblog/misc/200904300700_kindle_free_web...](http://tinyapps.org/weblog/misc/200904300700_kindle_free_web_browsing.html)

------
gojomo
Your concern is legitimate, but I think you can count on one (and probably
both) of two things happening to protect you:

(1) Amazon or others will sell replacement devices or software that support
the same DRM'd formats, so you will have continuity of access. (For example,
since iPhones can also read Kindle books, and presumably Android phones too at
some point, there will be multiple reading platforms.)

(2) The progress of time and mores will render the DRM effectively inert, as
with all other DRM formats used on popular/mass content.

There is a bit of faith required, but not much -- that one or both of these
occur fits a trend as strong as Moore's Law.

~~~
j2d2
Moore's law broke a little while back.

------
jemmons
I'll likely get downmodded for this, but someone has to speak truth to poster:

There's no way to read Amazon-protected content without using an Amazon-
approved device (Kindle, Kinde for iPhone) or cracking the DRM. Cracking the
DRM is illegal. I don't care how justified you think you are in doing it,
ethically the situation is a simple one: play by the rules or don't play. Is
that really so hard?

Remember, not only is purchasing-then-cracking DRM against the law and morally
ambiguous, it also gives the sponsors of the protected content artificial
financial incentive to continue in their DRM ways -- a situation I think we
all agree we would like to see end sooner rather than later. If you're really
so indignant about not being able to backup your $6000 investment or whatever,
the only winning move is not to play.

------
oomkiller
Foxit Software (my choice for PDF readers) is coming out with something called
the eSlick which reads any kind of PDF you can throw at it. Check it out
<http://www.foxitsoftware.com/ebook/>

------
nick007
anything you buy on your kindle remains in your amazon.com account, and you
can redownload it anytime (e.g. if you get a new kindle). <http://qzip.in/n9>

i don't think you can put it on a PC unless you hack it.

~~~
weaksauce
I think he is referring to the notion that amazon could in theory discontinue
the ebook/kindle line of products leaving him stranded without the books he
paid for.

This is not as far fetched as it seems. Look at a few examples from the music
business: Microsoft discontinued support for their music download service.
Walmart did the same thing to their DRM laden music. Now anyone that purchased
music with DRM from those two is sol if their computer/OS goes down and they
need to reinstall. since they cannot authenticate to the DRM servers the music
stops.

Solution to the music: use providers that do not want to cripple you. (Amazon
MP3 download is the way I have been getting all my music.)

Solution to the E-Book: You could probably strip out the drm from the kindle
protected books. It is probably against the law in some countries though.

~~~
Raphael
Amazon is a book store, so their ebook service shutting down would be like
Microsoft discontinuing Windows. Not too likely.

~~~
nop
Amazon itself could shut down. If the recession has taught us anything it
should be that we can't expect companies to be immortal.

~~~
omarchowdhury
If Amazon shuts down it means we've all been dead for weeks.

------
tptacek
As my friend Adam points out, at $6,400, they should just throw the Kindle in
for free.

------
mcantelon
I'm pretty amazed that noone has released a cheap, open e-reader with an
e-paper screen. Seems like such a beast would be an easy sell.

~~~
jonknee
It's because the reader is only as good as the content and an open reader has
limited content.

~~~
latortuga
That's just simply not true - Project Gutenberg
(<http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page>) begs to differ.

~~~
tptacek
Let me help you figure this out:

\-----------------------------------------

The Project Gutenberg "Top 5":

 _The Outline of Science, Vol. 1 (of 4) by J. Arthur Thomson (531)_

 _Manners, Customs, and Dress During the Middle Ages and During the
Renaissance Period by P. L. Jacob (453)_

 _Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (324)_

 _Illustrated History of Furniture by Frederick Litchfield (303)_

 _Searchlights on Health by B. G. Jefferis and J. L. Nichols (270)_

\-----------------------------------------

The Kindle "Top 5"

 _The Last Olympian by Rick Riordan_

 _Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto by Mark R. Levin_

 _First Family by David Baldacci_

 _The 8th Confession by James Patterson_

 _Dead and Gone (Sookie Stackhouse, Book 9) by Charlaine Harris_

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quoderat
No matter what, I don't do DRM. Won't do it. If that means in 20 years I'm
alone in a cabin with a bunch of old books, so be it.

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mitechka
You should have thought about this before buying an over-hyped DRM-riddled
gadget. This is EXACTLY why DRM schemes are BAD.

------
marcusbooster
Can't the new Kindles read pdf? I'm sure there are conversion tools out there.

~~~
jpd
Kindle DX can handle them natively; On K2, they have to be converted first, a
service which Amazon provides.

------
chaostheory
you may be interested in this: <http://www.foxitsoftware.com/ebook/>

------
pclark
why do you think Amazon will ditch the kindle?

~~~
old-gregg
Most products eventually disappear, particularly electronic gadget types.

But that's not the point here. The point is that I want to _own_ my books,
there are many reasons all of us should want this.

For one, ebook market is growing and Kindle isn't even close to being "iPhone
of ebooks": there are some interesting models from Sony, plus I'd like copies
of my books on my computers and on my iPhone. I don't want some cheap
disposable device to have full control over (eventually) thousands of dollars
of my books, that's just silly.

~~~
pclark
and I _want_ to own my iTunes music, but I didn't for a long time - welcome to
the digital age.

~~~
Kadin
A lot of people, myself included, kept far away from the iTMS for this very
reason until recently.

Ironically it was Amazon that was providing the alternative to the DRM-laden
product in that instance; I wonder who'll figure out a way to be the Good Guy
w/r/t the Kindle now that Amazon has decided to take a crack at the DRM game?

------
TweedHeads
HTML is the answer, it is future proof, it is 100% portable.

Now we need a solution to move all ebook formats to html.

~~~
silentOpen
HTML utterly fails at typography. Books need typography. Therefore, HTML
should not be used for books.

~~~
pookleblinky
Although, not every book is a House of Leaves.

~~~
TweedHeads
Interesting book, html6 should be able to display it exactly as intended. Even
showing text upside down, and divs floating in the middle of two columns.

If not, we're not doing the right thing.

------
erlanger
Hm, wonder why that book has no reviews...

~~~
tlrobinson
And the "customers also bought" section isn't exactly relevant...

