
Ask HN: Spending my free time in video games. It's eating me. Suggestions? - riotvan
I work 9-5, have a 1.5 hour commute each way, everyday. I hangout with my S.O 2 to 3 times a week and weekends. I&#x27;m finishing my MSc on CS, but it&#x27;s something that doesn&#x27;t really interest me, it&#x27;s not challenging and it&#x27;s very boring (but getting the degree is important, I guess).<p>During my free times (which is usually on the weekends) I work 4 to 5 hours on my thesis and then I don&#x27;t know what to do so I just mindlessly play video games and then I feel about it.<p>I do okay on my job, I do what&#x27;s required of me everyday, I don&#x27;t slack, I make good money and I plan to move out next year (I&#x27;m 22). All seems ok, but there&#x27;s just this void inside me. I can&#x27;t find anything else to fill it.<p>I used to be really into personal development (journaling, writing, follow daily planners, etc) but every since I got into this job it&#x27;s like I&#x27;m mentally exausted to do all that. Don&#x27;t get me wrong, I love the job (it&#x27;s my first job in the field, ever, fresh out of college), but it has killed all my motivation and interest on personal development. I can&#x27;t follow daily planners, I can&#x27;t find motivation or entusiasm to follow through a plan. My bet is that my daily commute is destroying me at the end of the week.<p>And everytime I play video games I feel bad and I just want to unninstal them after the game is done. This is a long repeating cycle and I hate it. I want to get back into developing myself, but I don&#x27;t know where to (re)start it. I&#x27;m just afraid of being &quot;a guy who plays video games on his free time&quot;. I know that it is OK to play video games every once in a while, but couldn&#x27;t I spend time doing more interesting and challenging things? I feel like I portrate a very boring type of person when all I do is that.<p>So, what do you guys do&#x2F;did to fight this, if you experienced anything like this?
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mchan
Some really good points and advice here. I just want to add: you're 22. What
you are experiencing is totally normal. Everyone goes through this struggle at
some point in their lives - not necessarily with video games, it can be with
other things. The guilt is a perfectly normal reaction to the situation, so no
need to beat yourself up about it. What you are feeling are two opposing needs
that need to be met - both are perfectly valid. The need to feel productive,
and the need to feel relaxed. You need to acknowledge both.

Also, I am guessing that that need to feel productive may come from an
expectation to achieve and possibly appear successful. If it is, it would be
beneficial to really deeply question the motivation behind it. A lot of people
at that age (including me, when I was) believe that you have to 'be' somebody.
That is an external expectation that you would need to see through and let go
of.

~~~
riotvan
I always have trouble finding the real motivation and reasons behind things. I
just don't what is the real questions I should be asking myself. For me,
finding the why in things is sometimes really difficult. For instance, about
exercising: I know that I should exercise so I'm healthier and live longer,
but that reason alone sometimes isn't enough for me to get up in the morning
and go for the jog. I guess I have a hard time acknowledging the fact that I
need to relax sometimes, it's just that I don't really know any other form of
relaxation but video games, and that makes me sad.

~~~
mchan
That's OK. Sometimes it takes time to find the real motivation behind
something. Sometimes it doesn't make sense either, and that's OK, because it
doesn't have to make sense, despite your mind thinking that it should. It
takes an honesty with yourself to acknowledge those motivations as well. The
key is to not beat yourself up about it too much. The more you do that, the
more resistance you will feel about it.

"What you resist, persists"

------
partisan
That commute is killing you. So is the perception that you aren't doing
anything if you aren't doing something all of the time. Give yourself a break.
Everyone needs to have an outlet and video games happen to be on the lower end
of the scale in terms of harmful outlets. Now you just need to forgive
yourself for being human.

If you are intent on removing video games from your life, please replace it
with something that allows you to free your mind. Join or start a meetup for
something fun and attend it during your usual video game time. Go to your
local pool and take a swim. Do anything that will take your mind off of your
crappy commute, job, and MSc.

And go talk to someone if you feel you might be depressed. Good luck!

~~~
riotvan
I don't feel depressed but I think you nailed it with " So is the perception
that you aren't doing anything if you aren't doing something all of the time".

Every time since I started reading stuff about self improvement (2 years ago)
that, everytime I touch on video games I feel bad about it and that I should
be focusing on something else. It's a constant inner struggle that it's hard
to win.

~~~
ganset
Have you tried listening to podcasts during the commute? I've found that doing
so helps me fit in some extra "learning" time that would otherwise just be me
sitting in traffic.

I can give some recommendations of the ones I listen to if you're interested!
Mostly front end development / shop talk type stuff.

~~~
riotvan
I listen to some podcasts, but would love to hear your recommendations!

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mbrock
Reading your post it's a bit unclear why you don't want to play video games.
You obviously enjoy doing it a lot, and in particular you enjoy it more than
the other things you listed (journaling, etc).

The strongest reasons seem to be external, like the embarrassment of being
known as someone who plays lots of video games. That's a valid reason, but I
mention it because maybe it's not in itself enough of a motivation for you to
actually change.

So my humble guess is that you should take a while and think about your
motivations and what it is that you'd really like to do instead, and how to
get started with that.

I think momentum is a big thing in life, and it's always easier to go along
the same old path, especially if you're tired and don't have lots of time for
reflection.

I have some of these boring time sink behaviors too. Let's just come up with
something to aim for...

Okay, here's my thing for this week. I like to bake simple bread, and I like
to make websites, so I've been thinking about making a website about simple
bread baking—a nice little guide, like a recipe but with inline big videos
that I'd shoot with my DSLR, and very clear and nice instructions. So I'd like
to get started on that, at least shoot most of the videos.

Which reminds me, bread baking is a nice thing to do! While it's rising and
baking you have time to do other stuff, even play some game, but you're not
just wasting time, you're baking! And then there's the smell of fresh bread
and everyone's happy.

------
patrickgordon
I had similar struggles. I was heavy in to CS:GO & dota2 and all I got out of
this was going to bed angry.

My solution was pretty extreme - I sold my gaming PC. Here's my steam profile
now: [https://i.imgur.com/4sSc0O7.png](https://i.imgur.com/4sSc0O7.png)

That said, I didn't stop gaming all together, a time later I bought a PS4 and
some single player games. This holds my attention for an hour or so when I'm
completely wiped from work towards the later part of the week.

I now use my time after to work for yoga (2x a week), meetups (~3 a month),
doing some freelance WordPress work, and programming my hobby projects.

I also took up cycling to improve my fitness and now I am in bed by 9.30-10pm
and get up at about 4:45 / 5AM to ride. On rest days, I still get up early and
have a coffee, read the "news", and work on hobby projects before work.

I don't have specific advice to you, and the above is all my own experiences,
but what I will say is that my mood, and outlook on life has improved. To that
end, I will say there is hope and you are the only one who can impart positive
change on your life. Just be willing to try and keep trying and I'm sure you
will.

Happy to chat via email if you want someone impartial to talk to. pgord1 at
gmail dot com

~~~
riotvan
Yep. CS:GO here. I sometimes wonder why I still play that game. It's really
digital crack. I really want to get into personal projects but sometimes I
just would like to get out of the house and explore stuff. Thing is I can't do
that, not where I live. At least until I move out.

------
selectron
You don't have to be productive all the time. It is important to have some
time to relax and have fun. There are far worse things you could be doing than
playing too many video games. You can try replacing video games with a more
productive activity, but make sure it is something you enjoy doing and don't
feel the need to quit gaming entirely.

~~~
riotvan
I sometimes think of quiting cold turkey and find something else. This,
however, scares the crap out of me, because I don't see myself replacing a 2
hour gaming session with a 2h book reading, for instance.

I guess I could start working on personal projects

------
Mz
_During my free times (which is usually on the weekends) I work 4 to 5 hours
on my thesis_

Finish your thesis and then revisit this issue. There is nothing wrong with
you. This is totally normal for someone working on something like this.

------
ionised
Time enjoyed is never time wasted. If you like playing games, don't feel bad
about it. As long as you're not neglecting other aspects of your life to play
them, there shouldn't be any problem.

It doesn't sound like you are though, you have a decent job, you spend time
studying and you have a relationship. Stop beating yourself up.

I spend a lot oftime playing games too, They're fun and it's how I relax. I
still make time to learn new things at home though. I would feel guilty if I
didn't.

I would recommend not playing MMOs or MOBAs though, they seem to be the games
that people play compulsively.

~~~
riotvan
I really, really, have a hard time not beating myself up. I always want to be
or feel better, but when I start thinking about the things I should be doing
in order to improve, the friction is so high that I fall back to my default
mode, which is to play a video game for an hour or two. In this case, it's CS
GO.

------
NumberCruncher
>> I'm just afraid of being "a guy who plays video games on his free time"

You are the 22 years old guy who works full time and works on his thesis. The
students I know are all lazy bastards compared to you...

~~~
riotvan
Sometimes I pride myself in it, but I really have a hard time not beating
myself up over it, and the inner struggle is constantly there.

------
caethan
Here's the framework that I've found useful for thinking about this in my own
life. There's three ways to spend your time: work, rest, and leisure.

Work is all the things you need to do to live your life. This includes your
job, errands, housework, etc. Things that you can't give up because they're a
necessary part of your life.

Rest is all the things you need to do to be able to do your work. Sleep, food,
exercise, and yes, TV & video games for relaxing can fit in here too.

Leisure is everything else - what you do with the time you've got left after
working and resting.

The real question for you is: are you playing video games to rest, or for
leisure? If they're restful for you, then I don't see the problem. You've got
a busy job, a thesis, and n SO that you're all keeping up with. Everyone needs
some downtime, so if you're feeling rested and relaxed afterwards, then great.
Keep them as a part of your downtime routine. The one thing you may want to
think about here is if video games are the best way to rest for <i>you</i>. If
you're playing shooters and getting frustrated and angry, that's probably not
as effective at relaxing as, say, building a castle with redstone circuitry in
Minecraft. Or even cooking a tasty meal or going for a walk.

If you're filling your leisure time with them, then I'd think about it a
little harder. Is there anything else you'd prefer to be doing with that
leisure time? Leisure time is what you get to use to change yourself - to
learn things, to exercise, to make yourself into who you want. So spend it
wisely.

And seriously, cut out the commute. I suspect part of the problem may be that
you really need all that rest time with video games but resent that you need
it. Work from home, change your work hours so you're not commuting during rush
hour, find a different job, whatever.

------
eswat
What I've done is change the games I play so it's easier to reframe them as
being part of my personal development, hence not feel as guilty about playing
them a lot. For me this meant removing games that were too grind-ey (major
time sinks with little return on investment) or had toxic communities (very
bad influences).

Instead I started playing short, single-player games with strong narratives
and interesting gameplay that I could learn from on a mental or spiritual
level. Now I treat playing games like I would treat reading books: they have
to be a good fit for what I'm looking for and I need to come out of the
experience having learned something useful or interesting; there needs to be
more than just entertainment value. IMHO this way of thinking about games is a
lot more effective than just uninstalling Steam and hoping you never fall for
gaben's siren song again.

~~~
riotvan
Yeah I need to start doing this. Ima start buying quality games. Already
uninstalled CSGO. Screw that game. Thanks for that point of view.

~~~
eswat
CSGO and the previous games were also my crack and those of my friends. But
it's clear now that it's morphed into something that I would rather not be a
part of. The betting website shenangians from the past month were a symptom of
deeper problem with that game and its community.

You'll definitely find something that would make better use of that time you
had filled with CSGO, whether it's a game or not.

~~~
crazypyro
Not sure that its so much a symptom of a deeper problem as much as the fact
that E-sports in general are a new industry and growing considerably. The
amount of people involved in the counter-strike scene is at least 3-4
_magnitudes_ larger than it was 7-8 years ago.

~~~
eswat
CSGO has a lot of players but compared to other popular games with their own
economies - with exception to perhaps EVE Online - they don't have as many
problems with shady item selling/trading markets as CSGO has. Look at DOTA2
for example.

~~~
crazypyro
DOTA2 items crashed in value. Before Valve made major changes, the trading
market was huge. Same thing happened in TF2. It was just early on in virtual
item trading websites. It took awhile, even in CSGO, for jackpot and lottery
sites to come about.

------
avindroth
If you are having trouble with recognizing delayed gratification, place play
into the bin of work.

Start numbering and comparing everything you do (work and play).

You will start comparing playing video games to working out, and see that over
your entire lifetime, the latter makes you happier.

Another timeless advice is sleep well, exercise, and read. But you probably
know that.

~~~
avindroth
Apparently couldn't edit? Wanted to add some personal details.

I was addicted to Dota 2, SSBM, and Hearthstone for a while; I have around 1.5
k hours logged on Dota 2, and that's not counting reddit time. Probably much
longer on the latter two games. Untracked time.

But now even with gorgeous gaming setup (I just gamed on a mac before), I
don't game for too long. I play Witcher 3 for around 2 hours and then stop.
Why? How?

The biggest motivation was getting hospitalized and having a sensible
schedule. I started sleeping earlier, eating at the right times, etc. What
kept me going after the hospital was something else, though.

I made a priority list for everything (work & play). I now know that they
(work & play) all contribute to my overall satisfaction in my life (former is
usually delayed and latter is usually instant), and I live to optimize that
satisfaction over time.

I plan to write a blog post sequence for this, but uggh... So I propose an
available alternative.

The best place to start for "living well" would be the beginning part of
"Rationality: From AI to Zombies" by Eliezer Yudkowsky[1]. This book helps you
with instrumental rationality, which is the art of living. Highly recommended,
even for a few chapters. The book is free as well.

Prioritize prioritization. Good luck, I feel you on how hard it must feel like
to get out of that. Trust me, once you get out, it's even harder to fall back
into the gaming mode.

[1]:
[https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences](https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences)

~~~
riotvan
Thanks for the book suggestion. Downloaded. Make sure to link me the blog
post!

------
db48x
That commute is a huge time sink, and it's costing you a huge amount of money
as well. If you found a way to cut it down, you'd have more time for other
things. You could cook yourself nice meals (or at any rate you can practice
cooking nice meals, it actually takes some skill), or spend more time with
other people, or both at the same time.

Even if you still feel that playing games is shameful (and it's no more
shameful than any other type of entertainment), you'll be a lot better off.

Approaching it from the other side, perhaps your choice of games could be
improved. You don't really say what games you play, but you can always find a
less mindless thing to play. I recommend Factorio, it's amazing
([http://www.factorio.com/](http://www.factorio.com/)).

------
SudoNhim
When I can, I try to just not have a computer at home for this reason. I have
an e reader and a shitty cellphone that can is hard enough to use that I don't
waste much time with it.

The trick is trying to find things that you can only use productively.

Terrible WiFi can also work if you can set it up. Something with 300ms lag is
enough to stop me playing games. If you live with other people making sure
your workstation is in the living room and not your bedroom also helps.

------
ownedthx
Get them out of the house. It's the same quitting unhealthy food. Take away
easy access, and you'll do something else.

------
jason_slack
How are you spending your commute? Are you driving? Or taking a train? If you
aren't driving, perhaps you can use that 15 hours a week to read, learn a new
skill. Then when you are burned out from work and play video games you won't
beat yourself up about it.

Also, count the video games as stress relief. We all need that.

~~~
riotvan
My commute is public transportations (Bus + Train + Subway). I usually try to
listen podcasts, but other times I'll just be on reddit, which sucks, I know

------
rollinDyno
I've been on the uninstall/install cycle. I used to be very much into League,
and plenty of games before that. I stopped on January 1st 2015 as part of my
new year's resolution.

I knew I had to stop because it wasn't giving me time to achieve my goals.
Specifically, to become a proficient programmer. I think this contributed
greatly because the sensation of achieving little wins while playing games was
immediately replaced by the same feeling when fixing bugs or having code
behave just like you want it to. See: 'The Power of Habit'.

~~~
riotvan
What did you replace games with?

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steve371
If you work and have a normal social life. I don't see the problem of playing
video games. You should have some resting/down time. Don't treat it as wasting
of time, it is actually a quality time that ppl needs. If you want to focus on
more time to do something else, find a buddy to do it together or find a
motivation may help.

~~~
avindroth
Self-hatred is the problem.

You know you don't enjoy playing video games in the long run, but you end up
doing it. Not a simple case of "Don't worry," because OP doesn't want to do
it.

------
svisser
It is essential to balance work with play. So you should not feel bad to play
video games from time to time.

But if you're always doing things that involve a lot of thinking (work, study)
it may be good to balance that with exercise or creating things with your
hands.

If your work is not very exciting and it's unlikely to change then you may
need to consider changing jobs.

------
DanBC
Do you think physical activity would help? Building in a bit of exercise would
probably have some benefit.

Would you be able to keep to a timetable of allowable game time? 30 minutes
and no more? Because if so you cold use it as a reward for starting some thing
else. "I'll do an hour of learning this other thing, then 30 minutes of
games".

------
dontJudge
Limit yourself to casual games that don't soak up your life. Don't even look
at an MMORPG or MOBA. It's digital crack. Focus more time on people.

------
PaulHoule
All you need is Hyperdimension Neptunia!

------
J_Darnley
What is wrong with you? You are living the dream. That sounds like the perfect
life. I wish I had that when I was 22. Heck I wish I had that now.

