
Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information - Hasknewbie
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53889612
======
Pick-A-Hill2019
I applaud the Danish Government and I wish other countries politicians would
have the courage to respect the origins of their mandate to govern. And before
this descends in to ‘what-about-isms’ I can name at least 5 countries whose
over-sight bodies should pay attention.

"The fact that the head of the Danish Military Intelligence Service is a
willing participant in circumventing the agency tasked with holding his own
intelligence service legally accountable is mind-blowing and must be deeply
concerning to the minister."

~~~
ThinkBeat
The usual way this works, is that there is noise. Some smack on the hand,
maybe a few sacrices. Noise goes away.

Military Intelligence goes back to doing whatever they like with a shared
understanding from those in power (yet not expressed as such).

------
Svip
The watchdog, the article refers to, Tilsynet med Efterretningstjenesterne,
was created on 1 January 2014 as a result of the Snowden leaks in 2013. It is
government run, but completely independent from the intelligence agencies and
members are appointed by a committee in parliament (except the chairman, who
must be a judge on the supreme court).

~~~
fit2rule
That is actually pretty astonishing .. so it was set up to catch the cabalist
spy empire that Snowden warned about, and it seems it has snared something ..
one can only hope this will be prosecuted in the public sphere.

~~~
erk__
There is of course much they cannot talk about because it is classified, but
they release a report each year the one up to 2018 are available in English
here
[https://www.tet.dk/redegorelser/?lang=en](https://www.tet.dk/redegorelser/?lang=en)

------
hansjorg
> According to local media, the Defence Intelligence Service is accused of
> failing to investigate allegations of espionage in the armed services. It
> has also been accused of obtaining and passing on information about Danish
> citizens.

The secret intelligence services in your country are not working for you or
your safety, and this is not a secret. If you believe so you have not been
following the news the last thirty years (before that they had a scape goat
for their behaviour).

~~~
oh_sigh
I think it would be possible for intelligence services to obtain and pass on
information about a citizen while still trying to work for the overall safety
of the country.

~~~
gostsamo
Nope, it is not their job. If a citizen is accused in a crime, there are other
institutions tasked with the investigation. Sometimes this is the
counterintelligence, sometimes this is the police. However, breaking the law
and actively avoiding legal supervision is a crime which makes them criminals.

~~~
oh_sigh
I'd imagine intelligence would be about crimes yet to take place, ie people
planning a terrorist attack (is that a crime in itself?)

~~~
ummwhat
Generally, for every crime x, the act of planning x is a crime known as
"conspiracy to commit x"

~~~
vmilner
Not for a crime planned by one person alone.

------
motohagiography
When I read about western intelligence agencies, one can't help but look at
the last decade or so and ask, what was it they said their job was again,
specifically?

~~~
null_deref
Can intelligence agencies be the case of "When you do things right, people
won't be sure you've done anything at all." (A line from Futurama)?

~~~
jessaustin
Sure, that would be possible in an abstract _tabula rasa_ sense, if we had no
awareness at all of the last seven decades. At this point, we've seen quite
enough evidence to conclude that they mostly do wrong, and occasionally we
find out about it. _Mike Pompeo_ and _James Clapper_ are typical "intelligence
officials", which means that there are much _worse_ actors lurking deep in
those organizations.

------
contingencies
Let's start a global program for shifting intelligence funding to schools.
Education is a better defense than mass surveillance.

~~~
throw_this_one
Yeah I’m sure when the West abdicates intelligence funding and increases
education, the anti-west axis forming/formed will come in by the campfire and
sing kumbaya with you.

------
nabla9
Intelligence agencies in Nordic countries are really small, just few hundreds
people per agency and limited budgets. Even if they go rouge, what they can do
is limited. Number of people in the field is even smaller. This creates
problems of it's own because their counterparts quickly learn to recognize
their faces.

For comparison, FBI Counterintelligence Division alone has 1-2 people per
10,000 Americans. Add different intelligence and surveillance agencies under
DHS and others to that list and it's easy to see that the US has insane amount
of domestic surveillance manpower per capita.

~~~
gostsamo
The US is invading, bombing or financing a civil war in a random country every
few years, while Denmark are at the corner of the map. Are you going to
compare the threat models of the two?

~~~
wojciii
Yeah .. but we (I'm Danish by citizenship) don't apologize because our
newspaper prints satirical drawings of some prophet.

The threat model is different. No terrorist attacks of serious kind were
performed as of yet but plans were found for terrorist attacks in Copenhagen.
Something akin to what happened in Germany. The threat seem real.

~~~
gostsamo
Did the police have to break the law to stop those attacks? Because the
question is not if a country should have a counterintelligence service, but
what legal tools it should be given, whether it should be under judicial
control when using them, and how to control it so that it does not abuse the
powers (both legal and physical) it is given.

~~~
wojciii
I don't think so. I think the info was obtained from our allies which dig it
up somewhere in the middle East.

------
mintyc
On the flip side intelligence also uncovers huge networks of despicable
people.

[https://www.thelocal.dk/20161021/danish-man-ran-
scandinavian...](https://www.thelocal.dk/20161021/danish-man-ran-scandinavian-
only-paedo-ring)

------
sebastien_b
Well done!

------
demygale
Could you imagine a government agency spying on its own citizens? In America
that would be illegal and unconstitutional.

We would have to immediately defund that agency.

~~~
throw_this_one
Imagine a country where you have zero power to elect officials and have no
constitution, so you could never have oversight over it.

Oh wait, that’s the system (via China/Russia) that our intelligence agencies
are helping protect us against.

~~~
theplague42
Do you legitimately believe that US intelligence agencies are the bulwark
against authoritarian government in the US?

~~~
throw_this_one
No, I meant they are part of the bulwark against countries like China/Russia
taking over the world.

~~~
jessaustin
This is a seriously nutty belief, that you claim to have. This year the
_increase_ in our military spending was bigger than Russia's _entire_ military
spending. We could cut our military budget in half and still dwarf China's.

~~~
legerdemain
Our armed forces are safeguarding Americans from a worldwide foe that could
show up anywhere on the globe.

To beat the world, we have to outspend _the rest of the world combined_ on
defense.

Perhaps the greatest danger to American defense is insider threats. If the
looming danger from insider threats is stark enough, we will absolutely need
to find a way to _outspend ourselves_ on defense.

~~~
DarthGhandi
From virtually everyone else's perspective the US is the worldwide foe.

Your foreign policy has had horrendous effects on the world for the last 50+
years.

~~~
throw_this_one
Lol what a trite and uncritical comment.

Yes I’m sure we are the foes of Europe (30 countries), of South Korea, Japan,
Philippines, Australia, NZ.

Of Brazil, Mexico, the Carib, Colombia.

Georgia.

The list goes on and on. Countries in our sphere are doing very well. They
have democratic governments.

Yes there are some stupid foreign policies I abhor as much as you. So if
something is wrong a few times, it’s completely evil? Laughable. Apply that
logic to the rest of the world and see what you get.

------
tpmx
I'd take these allegations with several grains of salt. This smells (stinks)
of politics.

~~~
cstpdk
It shouldn't. There's no political gain for any of the major parties. It also
happens after several, relatively minor, cases of corruption and nepotism in
the military and intelligence services (former high-ranking official just got
3months prison today). It stinks mostly of a corruption and several decades of
lack of proper oversight

~~~
tpmx
What kind of targets is he accused of targetting?

~~~
gostsamo
Are there "kinds" that are not covered by the law and are more okay to have
their rights abused?

~~~
tpmx
I have no idea (I'm Swedish, not Danish) what all of this is about. That's why
I'm asking. I don't like what you're implying.

~~~
gostsamo
Well, the article says that they are accused of spying on danish citizens and
providing the results to foreign entities without authorization or legal base.
You ask what were the targets implying that it matters and some "targets" are
not as equal as others. Sorry if I've gotten you wrong.

~~~
tpmx
I checked
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Denmark/comments/ifkfsi/tre_ledende...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Denmark/comments/ifkfsi/tre_ledende_medarbejdere_fra_forsvarets/)
\- seems like noone really understands what's going on. Internal drama?

~~~
erk__
If you can read Danish you see what information the public have been given
here [https://www.tet.dk/wp-
content/uploads/2020/08/PRESSEMEDDELEL...](https://www.tet.dk/wp-
content/uploads/2020/08/PRESSEMEDDELELSE.pdf)

Here are the points I think are highlights:

> That FE has on several occasions since the Authority's establishment in 2014
> and until the summer of 2020 - in connection with, among other things, the
> Authority's specific inspections and meetings with the head of FE - has
> withheld key and crucial information for the Authority and given the
> Authority incorrect information about the service's collection and
> disclosure.

> That there is an inappropriate culture of legality in FE's management and
> parts of the service, where the service's possible unjustified activities or
> inappropriate circumstances are shelved, including by failing to inform the
> supervisory authority of matters relevant to its control.

> The submitted material indicates that FE, prior to the establishment of the
> Authority in 2014, has initiated operational activities in violation of
> Danish law, including by obtaining and passing on a significant amount of
> information about Danish citizens.

> That FE has unjustifiably processed information about an employee in the
> supervision. (TET)

