
What does it feel like to be stupid? An anonymous Quora user explains. - zhyder
http://garrysub.posterous.com/what-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid-an-anonym
======
alanh
Meta:

This, to me, is a fundamental problem with the Posterous culture. Here we have
a post on a Posterous blog _made by a Posterous co-founder_ which copies, _in
its entirety_ and with no significant commentary, a work published elsewhere.

It’s attributed with a link to the source — barely, in lowercased, tiny font,
at the bottom. The headline is a link to the Posterous page, not the source
(unlike Daring Fireball “linked list” items, for example). How many people
will actually follow the link? Why is this Posterous blog entry #1 on HN when
a permalink to the original source on Quora is readily available?

Let’s be clear. This is not “fair use.” It’s not _plagiarism,_ as Garry
doesn’t claim he wrote the anecdote; but it’s a violation of copyright. It’s
publishing without permission of the copyright holder.†

My first submission to Hacker News was an original item I posted to my own
website. It got quite a few reads — but a lot of people were re-tweeting a
link to a full copy of it hosted on _someone else’s Posterous._ That user
didn’t add much (A sentence expressing “me, too”). I was conflicted: Glad
people found my writing interesting enough to duplicate and share, but
disappointed that they were reading it on someone else’s site for no good
reason.

I see now that if the company’s own bloggers consider copyright a joke, if
they believe posting other people’s articles verbatim is kosher, well, can we
be surprised their users do, too?

(Postscript: This differs from Tumblr’s “re-blogging” in one important way:
You only re-blog other Tumblr posts. “Re-blogging” is part of the Tumblr
system. You expect it there if you post there. You don’t “lose” anything by
it. I have no problem there.)

† I don’t know if Quora’s terms of service mean that consent is implied, but
honestly, in this case and this case only (the case of a Posterous employee),
it doesn’t matter, because it’s about setting precedent for the community.

~~~
jacquesm
You know what, you're absolutely right. So, let's provide the link to the
original article:

[http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-
stupid/ans...](http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-
stupid/answers/157939)

It actually is simply a violation of copyright. Anything over 15 lines cited
iirc.

edit: fixed the link tx Alan!

~~~
jrockway
Following the terms of a license granted by the owner of the content is
"simply a violation of copyright" now?

~~~
djacobs
Regardless of its legal status, this post is really tacky. It leaves me with a
gross feeling, sort of like when the awkward kid in the conversation follows
every joke someone makes with the same joke a minute later--when he finally
gets it.

The point of (nearly) any blog post should be to "continue the current
conversation", whatever that means for your genre. It's very obvious to me
that this post does not do that, or really anything else.

This should've linked to the source text, which would've included comments.

~~~
gilesc
Interesting choice of metaphor given the original topic...

------
nkurz
I've had a similar experience. I got out of computer programming because I
became ill with West Nile Virus and couldn't think well enough to continue.
Even after I recovered from most of the physical aspects of the disease
(approximately equal to having mono for a year) I was still unable to continue
working on the relatively complex recommendations algorithms that I had been
doing before. The math just made no sense to me.

I consider myself generally intelligent and capable, and while ill I was
definitely neither. I once failed twice in a row at following the directions
to make instant mashed potatoes. It wasn't really a joke that a good day was
keeping the toilet seat clean and remembering to flush. It's been about 5
years, and my health is mostly back to normal other than no longer being in
decent physical shape. I'm currently doing non-computer work
(<http://screamsorbet.com>) but I'm eager to someday get back to the
programming problems I abandoned.

Unlike the author of the article, I didn't find it made me happier. Perhaps
it's a general personality issue, but it made me even more depressed. Books
and movies were mostly beyond me, and there wasn't much I found to take any
joy in. I presumed I would eventually recover (and think I have almost
completely) but the overall feeling was one of intense mortality --- a dread
of the eventual senility that will probably come with aging, and a realization
that when it happens again it will likely be once and forever.

~~~
ovi256
Hmmm not wanting to be a grammer nazi, but there's a type in "makret" instead
of market on the homepage of screamsorbet.com

Unless it's intentional :)

~~~
supahfly_remix
Do you mean "typo"? :)

~~~
ovi256
Oh wow. Of course :)

------
pinchyfingers
I need regular confirmation that some people really are slower. My whole life,
I've refused to really believe in intelligence. Although I loved the attention
of being the 'smart kid', I've always insisted that I just liked reading and
puzzles and things, and if anyone else spent as much time reading and writing
as I did, they'd be pretty smart too. Of course, some people really don't like
reading the kind of nonsense that I do and all the other stuff that comes with
it, and it might be more than just preference.

I might really enjoy slam-dunking basketballs if I just did it more, but there
is a really good chance that its never gonna happen, no matter how much I try.

This is a fact of life that I'm often unwilling to admit. I'm sure that
contributes to the impatience a lot of people feel, we have very little
empathy for people who don't comprehend and analyze the same way that we do.
Where would that empathy come from? Analogous experience with slam dunks,
maybe.

~~~
dkarl
_I've always insisted that I just liked reading and puzzles and things, and if
anyone else spent as much time reading and writing as I did, they'd be pretty
smart too._

Fifteen years ago, I would have told you they secretly understood that and
thought you were a sucker for bothering. I always suspected that people used
the concept of "intelligence" and their supposed lack of it to excuse
themselves from responsibilities such as reading a god damned book once in a
while.

How could either of us be disproved? Ability and sustained effort go together
so consistently that the exceptions are too rare to mean anything. Whether
success enables effort or effort enables success, there's no denying they're
found together. I did many things "effortlessly" in school because I started
learning them years before. I read (and studied and reread) an Isaac Asimov
book on basic physics ("Understanding Physics") in junior high, so is it any
wonder physics came "effortlessly" to me in high school? I started learning
high school chemistry from a "Chemistry the Easy Way" study guide a year and a
half before I took the class; is it any wonder I got As despite being a lazy
student who never paid attention in class?

Of course, part of the draw of learning physics and chemistry was that I was
acting out a role I enjoyed, that of the "smart kid." So I was "smart" because
I did the work because I liked being "smart"... who can find the beginning of
that? I remember that in first grade we decorated coat hangers with little
construction paper cards for each book we read, and I wanted mine to have more
cards than anybody else's. There's no telling how it started.

 _I might really enjoy slam-dunking basketballs if I just did it more, but
there is a really good chance that its never gonna happen, no matter how much
I try._

You should admit that you really don't care enough to find out how your body
would respond to six months of an hour of daily training aimed at dunking a
basketball, and you should consider whether your attitude towards dunking a
basketball is any different from a "stupid" person's attitude toward acquiring
"intelligence." A twinge of regret, yet security in yourself as you are, and
fear that commitment to change would be futile, and worse, appear foolish.

~~~
pinchyfingers
I do value athletics highly and I believe I could overcome my vertical
ineptitude, but the reality is that my stature gave me an advantage in
wrestling and a major disadvantage in basketball, so I went with what worked
and put my effort into being a wrestler.

This is why natural ability is such a hard thing for me to accept - I really
believe that I can be good at anything, and I believe that is true of other
people as well, but if they don't believe it, how will it happen?

It's kind of a chicken and egg problem, or maybe a qualia problem. I have an
empowering imagination and I surround myself with like people. I can't imagine
someone else lacking that - but maybe some people do? I don't know, its a
little frustrating.

~~~
rottendevice
> This is why natural ability is such a hard thing for me to accept - I really
> believe that I can be good at anything, and I believe that is true of other
> people as well, but if they don't believe it, how will it happen?

To me, what you can do in life all comes down to a Henry Ford quote:

"Whether you believe you can, or you believe you can't, you're right."

------
crazydiamond
The title says stupid but the details are about slow and forgetful. Forgetful
people can be quick witted and brilliant.

I can tell your from personal experience that being stupid does not feel good
especially when you know it. You never "get it" when others talk, you never
have anything to say, you are always saying and doing the wrong things, or not
doing what should have been done.

I do agree there's a lot more to enjoy. One is not critical and cynical. I
like a lot more people, food, music than my smarter siblings. I am very happy
walking in parks, looking at trees, or petting animals. Life is simpler.

~~~
andrewvc
Agreed. I think it's pretty hard to not know what it's like to feel stupid at
least some of the time. Even most geniuses are 'stupid' in at least one area.
Most of us have felt the sting of seeing a colleague, friend, or stranger pick
up a challenging topic with enviable ease.

The more interesting question is, what it's like to feel that way all the
time. I suppose we all choose to associate mostly with those of approximately
equal intelligence to ourselves, so we're probably mostly oblivious to our
relative intelligence.

~~~
crazydiamond
Well, for one I know I'll never write any spectacular piece of software that
will really make a difference. My only half-decent contributions were to port
a library from one language to another.

As you rise in rank, you are associating with people who are all of higher
intelligence. I made whatever i could on dint of twice the effort and reading
a lot more. I am fortunate I was able to save enough money since i reached a
stage where I knew i could not continue to be employed. I was too old to be a
continue at middle management, and too stupid to move to higher management.
I've retired and lead a slow life living on savings. I do programming for fun,
but no-brainer stuff.

Sometimes I do think i am blessed with stupidity. Most intelligent people i
know are miserable, spending their entire lives chasing wealth or becoming
something to be happy.

------
maxstoller
Direct: <http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid>

------
endgame
Wow, sounds like Flowers for Algernon in reverse. That would've been an
interesting experience and I'm glad it was shared.

~~~
CallMeV
Wish I could upvote this comment twice. Flowers for Algernon is one of the
most moving stories I have ever read.

------
kmfrk
You should read Flowers for Algernon[1]. It's a piece of fiction, but it's a
great read and reference in discussions like these.

The sad thing about being "stupid" is being unable to put your predicament
into compelling writing.

[1]: [http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-
alias%3Dap...](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-
alias%3Daps&field-keywords=flowers+for+algernon&x=0&y=0)

------
jessor
_I no longer had the arrogance of being frustrated with slow people [...] I
got on with people much better. I developed much more respect for one of my
friends in particular who I always considered slow - it turned out he is much
deeper than I thought, I just never had the patience to notice before. You
could say I had more time to look around._

Reads like the way to cure narcissism.

~~~
epo
Yes, this happens to good looking people who lose their looks due to accident
or age, the ones with nothing else find it devastating, the others (the lucky
ones) find it a very sobering and saddening experience.

Physical beauty is a wasting asset, present when you are least able to
appreciate how valuable it is.

------
anthuswilliams
I went through a period like this, and it was awful. Diabetes isn't a
particularly rare illness, but I am the only one I know who has it, and I had
no idea what symptoms to look for. Since it took a while for me to develop the
good sense to check into an emergency room, I spent six months essentially
insulin free, shedding muscle mass, water weight, gasping for breath, and
exerting every ounce of energy I had to climb flights of stairs.

I was basically incapable of complex reasoning because I couldn't expend the
required mental energy. I did not become laid back or socially competent;
instead, I was irritable and frustrated at my shortcomings. People could take
advantage of me more easily. I generally stopped being interested in esoteric
things of any sort. I don't think I derived anything of value from the loss of
my mental acuity.

One tangential benefit I did receive, however, from having DKA, was an
increase in motivation and willpower. I had taken my health and cleverness for
granted, and now it was slipping away, and I didn't know why. All I knew was
that I wanted it back. I forced myself to slog through, to finish the CRM I
was working on, and I started working out more. It didn't help me health-wise
at the time, but now that my condition is being managed, I find I am much more
aggressive and resourceful in the way I conduct my life.

------
lwhi
What does it feel like to be _different_.

The world isn't full of 'stupid' people and 'clever' people. The human race
doesn't function on a linear spectrum; the full variety of personality types
and abilities is far more diverse.

Perhaps some people value their intelligence above all else, when other areas
of their lives are lacking?

~~~
lwhi
I don't mind being down-voted - because I believe it's dangerous to flippantly
label some people as intellectually inferior.

While it might sound idealistic - I believe everybody has something to offer.
There are many types of 'intelligence' - and many personal qualities that are
just as important as intelligence.

------
hugh3
Reading this made me paranoid.

"Wait, _I_ enjoy walking in the park. Is it possible that I'm not as smart as
I think I am? omg, maybe the blood supply to my brain is blocked!"

------
moconnor
Without wanting to detract from a fascinating read, s/stupid/high on C02/ is
another interpretation.

------
srbloom
Can anyone with a medical background chime in on whether or not this is even
possible?

~~~
patio11
Diminished capacity is certainly possible. It has happened to me. I've had a
few occasions where illness, drugs or both impaired me severely enough to
scare me. (Scarier still was two occasions where I retained my faculties but
had personality changes into someone unrecognizable as _me_ , and I was aware
of it but couldn't start being me any more than I can stop being me usually.)

My mother had a stroke and for weeks afterward was under the impression that I
was a nurse who she disliked.

Our minds are very complex systems of chemical reactions. They work _most_ of
the time. There is weird, marvelous, scary stuff up there, and we barely
understand any of it.

~~~
yters
I become noticeably stupider when staying up late and drinking lots of
caffeine. But, I also believe that is when I come up with my best ideas.

------
petercooper
Most of the traits of "stupidity" raised in that piece (reduced arrogance,
less anal retentiveness, enjoying obvious movies, patience, going off of sci-
fi, being slower and more laid back) are all things I've recently noticed I've
gained gradually over the last 10 years.. Early senile dementia? ;-)

~~~
neilk
Those aren't necessarily traits of slowness. It might indicate a heightened
awareness of your senses and to the feelings of people around you.

When I was younger I identified so much with my racing brain, it crowded out
_everything_ else. I couldn't even enjoy a flower, or art, or respond to the
happiness of a small child.

------
silverlake
Intelligence is the ability to rationalize your stupid opinions. Dumb people
just have opinions without the elaborate rationalizations. I prefer dumb
people.

------
grav1tas
I'm glad the author could take away the story of what it feels like to be slow
vs quick. I'd probably be overly caught up on the "almost dying" aspect of the
story to hover over much else, to be honest. It's great to see this level of
introspection from people.

------
forza
Seems to me like these "effects" could have a lot more to do with a change of
lifestyle and self image, rather than becoming "stupid".

------
stcredzero
This post reminds me of taking some classes with a certain professor of mine.
Most of us in the class would regard ourselves as pretty bright, but this prof
was a half step ahead of us. He had a habit of blurting out the answers to
questions just as a bunch of us had gotten close to formulating the answer or
had just opened our mouths to say it. I never thought he was mean spirited
about it. He was just faster than us and a little impatient.

------
crazydiamond
Another thing i can tell you about how it feels. You'll have to get used to
being a loner. It's not hard to make friends since people find you to be open
and simple. But then when you have nothing to say, they vanish. It's strange
how ultimately friendship can be more about what the other person _says_
rather than what the person is.

However, one learns to accept this as how the world is, and there's no ill-
feeling or depression associated with it.

------
jalfrezzo
>I had an arterial problem for a couple of years [..] this made me forgetful,
slow, and easily overwhelmed

Zoom out a bit. Everyone middle aged and above in our society is expected to
have some degree of arterial plaque. Nowadays it is considered normal. Obesity
and diabetes are on the rise.

Doesn't this mean that many supposedly healthy people are already more slow
and forgetful than need be?

~~~
ori_b
It might, but at the same time, I doubt that the difference would be noticable
if he only realized it once the doctors were puzzled at how he was alive.

------
CallMeV
It often breaks my heart when some of my best friends and family reach the
limits of their cognitive abilities and display all the intelligence of a
Labrador. I love them all unconditionally nonetheless, even if they don't get
half of my jokes or most of what I say in the course of the day.

~~~
coconutrandom
I'm just happy they _still love me unconditionally_ even though they don't get
half of my jokes and of most of what I say during the day.

------
mcantor
What this man did was find compassion for less intelligent people by becoming
one. It is the habit of humans to condescend to less intelligent people, and
to envy or undermine those who are smarter. Reaching across the boundaries of
what is familiar to us and nurturing compassion there is difficult; this is a
case where someone was forced to take a new perspective, and couldn't help but
grow that compassion, because people who were previously so unfamiliar became
uncannily like himself.

I'm not trying to trivialize his journey; he just as easily could have
spiraled into a feedback loop of self-hate and self-pity. It's admirable that
he accepted the change within himself, and I enjoyed reading about how
awestruck he was as he observed the emotional change within.

------
takameyer
I had a similar experience after recieving a concussion this summer. My memory
was shot, I had to write everything down constantly. Basically it forced me to
become more organized and really simplify my lifestyle. I was really close to
getting burned out. It's been a rough trip, but I'm starting to get a good
foundation built again. Learning to cut down my projects and not working like
a dog has helped out immensely. I would not like to experience that handicap
again, as I'm still often struggling with the effects.

------
TechNewb
There are many definitions of stupid, but I would not classify speed as one of
them. As a dyslexic I'm very slow at reading, but I can use technology to
augment that slowness.

~~~
grav1tas
I think he's meaning it more in the sense of "brightness" or quickness as in
"mental agility". The idea is that some people are able to think and process
things to a good conclusion more quickly than others on a consistent basis. It
may not be so much that stupid people are slow, but rather intelligent people
are fast.

~~~
aik
I've heard it referred to as rapid cognition. I'd be very interested to see a
study of the benefits of having a more rapid cognition vs. a slower.

In most cases I believe I lean more towards an average speed of cognition,
however I have no doubt my brain has multiple speeds (noticeably very rapid in
various circumstances). I've been attempting to figure out how to unlock these
more rapid moments "manually".

As hinted at by the OP, there appears to be some significant negatives of
having an always-rapid cognition. I've noticed this in a few of my friends who
seem to operate consistently at that level - they tend to struggle in certain
areas of their life, yet have amazing abilities to pick up and process and
analyze information. What causes this?

My thoughts:

1\. It's lonely in a way (you feel left out). This causes psychological
problems.

2\. Arrogance is easier when you appear "smarter" than others and perhaps
don't question yourself as much as someone who can admit there are smarter
people in the world who naturally rethink things much more.

3\. The speed could be a result of more efficient brain circuitry in general.
Perhaps it's more efficient because it naturally skips "filters"/paths that
"slower" thinkers naturally process everything through.

So should more rapid cognition be considered a gift in as many cases as it is?
Should we rethink whether there's a direct correlation between unusual rapid
cognition (or speed of thought) and what we consider general intelligence?
What exactly is missing in our general understanding of intelligence to allow
people to slip through who have psychological/emotional issues that prevent
them from making proper use of their cognition?

What is the ideal state?

~~~
grav1tas
That's a really interesting way of thinking about it. I've recently been
thinking about it as people's thinking in terms of Breadth First thinking vs
Depth First thinking, though I like your thoughts a lot. From my (albeit
limited, this is not a statistical sample) experience, it seems like smarter
people are the ones who tend to worry more. Almost as though they can chase
through situations quicker and come up with possible (bad) results that give
them reason to worry. It kinda plays into that ignorance is bliss mantra, but
that's just my experience.

I think rapid cognition is a gift, but the problem is that our gifted
programs...or training for people who are like this isn't good enough to teach
them how to handle their own brains. I think there should be more work done
into helping people unlock AND manage their intellectual assets. Right now I
think the situation in the US focuses more on the former and less on the
latter. I feel like I'm advocating that smart kids go learn under Professor
Xavier or something.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>From my (albeit limited, this is not a statistical sample) experience, it
seems like smarter people are the ones who tend to worry more. Almost as
though they can chase through situations quicker and come up with possible
(bad) results that give them reason to worry. It kinda plays into that
ignorance is bliss mantra, but that's just my experience.

My mother is a frantic worrier and pretty intelligent IMO. I have a tendency
towards worrying but when my mind dwells on negative situations I try to
practice considering what the good outcomes might be or indeed to go overboard
and consider the most outrageously impossible worst outcome.

I read about this technique from a link here a couple of years ago I think, it
helps a little. One can spirally negatively with thoughts of possible
scenarios very readily and when I remember this is a useful check on that.

Couldn't find the link, it's a common technique to teach in cognitive
behaviour therapy, like
[http://us.reachout.com/the_facts/fs_factsheet.php?s=05&f...](http://us.reachout.com/the_facts/fs_factsheet.php?s=05&f=28).

~~~
sedachv
Freedom from unnecessary (that is, things you have no control over) worry is
one of the basic tenets of Stoicism. After learning about that, it seems
foolish that things like this aren't common knowledge or taught in schools.
The reduction in stress from just this one single realization is huge.

------
capedape
“Stupidity is infinitely more fascinating that intelligence. Intelligence has
its limits while stupidity has none. To observe a profoundly stupid individual
can be very enriching, and that’s why we should never feel contempt for them.”
Claude Chabrol

------
Supermighty
> I just never had the patience to notice before.

I think with a little patience and humility we can notice the deepness of our
_stupid_ friends, and relax enough to enjoy what we are doing without
worrying.

------
jaekwon
compare with smoking pot daily for X years.

also, can you train yourself to be smarter by forcing yourself into such a
state, much like weight training or high altitude training?

~~~
lotusleaf1987
Marijuana doesn't make you dumb permanently... Alcohol has far worse effects
on the brain than marijuana, especially over the long term. Listen to Dr.
Drew, he says it all the time.

~~~
Encosia
The last few studies I've seen on moderate alcohol use have concluded that its
short-term effects on the brain aren't necessarily cumulative over the long
term, as opposed to conventional wisdom.

~~~
Devilboy
That may be true but the way young people use alcohol is usually binge
drinking rather than having one glass of wine daily

~~~
Encosia
By the same token, is there any reason to assume that someone who uses
marijuana doesn't drink irresponsibly too? While I was in college, the two
seemed pretty inseparable on average.

------
rorrr
One thing has been bothering me for years. What if I'm retarded and I don't
know that? What if people around me pretend that I'm ok, being polite, or
maybe I'm so retarded that I can't notice their reaction to me.

I haven't been able to find an answer.

~~~
GreenNight
This has bothered me from time to time for a long time too. It usually affects
me most when I get to make other people do things I though they would not do
for me. I've got no cure or definite answer for it.

On the other hand I felt the same of my dancing abilities (and still do) but
being praised(+) a lot by lots of people, some of them being international
dancing figures, and one of my teachers - whom I find an excellent dancer -
asking me to enter into her (not truly professional but important to her)
dance company has made wonders to improve my self-image. Even though I feel
clumsy from time to time, once a dance or so ;)

So I guess trying to improve more in what you feel you do badly until everyone
praises that aspect of you can help it.

(+) I've got to say the praises where not about my technical level, but more
about energy, fun and all the things that make a dance alive.

~~~
colanderman
> one of my teachers - whom I find an excellent dancer - asking me to enter
> into her (not truly professional but important to her)

Dude, you've gotta find a better place for that aside...

------
mkramlich
I'd be curious to know if his political leaning shifted going into and out of
his "stupid" period.

~~~
ludwigvan
This is from the Woody Allen movie "Everyone Says I Love You":

"Just after dinner...

Scott suddenly collapsed. Everybody panicked.

\- There's no cause for alarm. There was a blockage in the artery, but it's
been dissolved.

\- There's no problem?

\- No, he's fine.

Our scan indicated that the condition began some time ago...

so if he's shown any kind of strange or weird behaviour...

It's because his brain wasn't getting enough oxygen.

But as soon as his brain started functioning properly...

Scott resigned from the Conservative Republican Club... and started espousing
left-wing Democratic philosophy.

Dad was overjoyed. Just as proud as can be."

[http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/e/everyone-
says-i...](http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/e/everyone-says-i-love-
you-script.html) This is the script, actual subtitles might be different.

