
How to Buy a Private Jet - RickJWagner
https://www.worth.com/how-to-buy-a-private-jet/
======
BlameKaneda
I came across a Reddit post a while back and the user said that for whatever
reason people of wealth were attracted to them. As a result, they were able to
learn a lot about their lifestyles, habits, etc, on an intimate level that
most of us wouldn't know. Based on the detailed information that OP provided,
it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

They said that one of the most important factors for the ultra-wealthy was
time. This involved wealthy individuals:

\- Hiring personal assistants (to run errands)

\- Hiring personal chefs (no time wasted cooking)

\- Owning a private jet (no time lost booking a flight, going through
security, etc)

We can't control the flow of time, but we can most certainly use it to our
benefit.

Reddit post:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/what_do_i...](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/what_do_insanely_wealthy_people_buy_that_ordinary/)

~~~
tomatocracy
The really big time benefit to flying private is about schedule flexibility
rather than security etc (though that's important too). Flying private an
executive can turn up and leave 5 minutes later, and be on the road 5 minutes
after landing. If a meeting overruns and there's only one commercial flight a
day with the relevant city pair, then they're just out of luck. Flying
private, it's not a problem.

The economics of whether to own vs rent (netjets etc) is essentially about
scale.

~~~
BlameKaneda
I completely agree. If I wanted to fly down to Austin, TX for BBQ I could do
so in a day, rather than fly in and fly back home based on the airline's
schedule.

~~~
vonseel
Austinite here... your hypothetical BBQ trip sounds exactly like the type of
thing some super-rich outsider would do. Personally, I don’t buy into the
hype. The BBQ is good but not “wait in line for hours” good. I’d rather smoke
my own meats if it’s going to take all day.

~~~
blankaccount
presumably its about the people attending, not the food...

------
heyflyguy
You can gain alot of time simply by getting your private pilot and instrument
rating and buying a fast airplane. It need not be a Cirrus, for example. A
well maintained 60s era Bonanza can get you halfway across the country in a
few hours. Sure it's more expensive, but you can fly to an airport that is
nearest to your business dealings, often borrow a "crew car" from the FBO in
exchange for buying gas, and be home in time for dinner.

~~~
nilkn
I just want to emphasize that getting instrument-rated is not a trivial
endeavor and it's not likely something to be achieved by someone whose
interest is entirely in getting to their meetings more efficiently. And
without the instrument rating, your travel plans will be instantly foiled the
moment there's bad weather. If you have a passion for aviation and flight, an
instrument rating is certainly within reach. But otherwise getting it will
feel like quite a slog.

An an aside, if you're an executive, flying private with your team (all as
passengers) makes it easy to continue to work on the flight and prepare for
the upcoming meeting. If you're busy piloting the plane, it becomes much
harder if not impossible to be a part of that.

~~~
scrumper
It's not a fantastic idea for safety reasons. A couple of factors are going to
add to the already elevated risk levels of GA flight in piston aircraft.

1\. You, an exec, are going to want to see an ROI on the substantial time and
money commitment you made in getting instrument rated. So you're going to want
to use that aircraft as much as possible. Back when you flew commercial, you'd
sit in the back of a 737 debriefing yourself after a brutal meeting with a gin
and tonic and some angry emails to your minions. Now you've gone straight from
having your ear burned off by a furious client to negotiating complex
clearances in the clouds.

2\. Get-there-itis kills. And now you have a plane, so, sure you can make that
widget sales meeting in Spokane and be back in time for your kid's game... But
the weather is closing in. You sold your spouse on the idea of a private
aircraft just for situations like this, so you could be present for family
_and_ grow the business. Oh, but the client is on the fence, so maybe you need
to stick around for a bit and admire their factory. Hey, no takeoff time
right? Now it really is time to go. Ceilings are low, there's ice, a storm en-
route, it's all a bit marginal. But you don't want to miss junior's first
pitch so off you go into the murk and a couple hours later some volunteer
firefighters from a town you've never heard of are shoveling what's left of
you into black sacks while trying not to vomit.

All of which is to say, it's a brilliant idea as long as your travel area
enjoys VFR conditions most of the time. Now your instrument rating is a
buttress for your safety, instead of an excuse to extend your limits.

~~~
DennisP
Your second point is the basis for an entire chapter of the fantastic book
_Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why_.

The author goes through a bunch of case studies of people in survival
situations, some who made it, others who didn't. The ones who didn't generally
did something that seems pretty stupid at first glance. He gets into some
neuroscience and you realize how easy it would be to make the same mistake.

~~~
kick
It's also exactly what happened to John F. Kennedy Jr., though not entirely
his own fault (he wasn't going to do it until his wife and sister-in-law
pressured him to).

~~~
scrumper
There's surely some interesting psychology at work with get-there-itis. I
would be very interested to read about it.

To my mind the pilot is weighing a few possible future outcomes:

\- satisfying some obligation by completing the journey, getting pats on the
back or avoiding further trouble.

\- disappointing or angering stakeholders (clients, wives and sisters-in-law,
children) by cancelling a journey due to prudence, and then, potentially,
further feeling that one will be perceived as inadequately skilled at
something which is a prominent part of one's self-identity.

\- taking off anyway and maybe having to make an emergency landing en route,
thus demonstrating eagerness to complete the journey and a heroic, skillful
handling of a dangerous situation.

\- dying in a fiery crash.

Even outcome three ends up being positive for the pilot. They get all the
social credit for having attempted the journey, plus an unimpeachable excuse
for failing to complete it. Dying in a crash is just a hard thing to imagine,
so maybe features far less in the flight decision emotional risk balancing
than it should.

One of the vanishingly few safety things which the scuba diving community does
perhaps better than aviation is the idea that "any diver may thumb [abort] a
dive for any reason at any time," and that is fully expected to include just
'feeling bad.' It is an integral part of the buddy system which doesn't have
an analog in aviation, but maybe there could be a mental preflight checklist
which could be used to identify situations where GtI is a factor and thus give
the pilot a basis for staying on the ground when their gut is saying, "don't
take off!"

------
herodotus
I once was a passenger on a billionaire owned private jet (he owned two). The
owner picked me up in his rental (I worked for his son, the billionaire was
visiting). We all drove to the back of the airport, almost right up to the
plane. The pilot and co pilot were waiting for us. They loaded the luggage,
and a rep from the car company took the keys to the rental. The jet owners
wife had a pre-made tray of food with her. We climbed on board. The pilot said
"all ready?" and off we went. Once airborne, the owner spread out a flat bed
and slept. His wife served us some food.

It wasn't just the time saved: if was the avoiding of all the hastles of
airports: parking, line-ups, security, more line-ups.

The owner had set up a leasing company for his two jets. Of course he had
priority, and had to make sure that his planes were not leased out when he
wanted them.

~~~
tasuki
Why did he have two jets?

~~~
herodotus
He was not the only user: his companies execs used them too. There was a lot
of travel between the UK and Canada.

~~~
tasuki
Makes sense - thanks!

------
herlitzj
Not a single mention of the carbon footprint of a private jet. This has to be
the single most selfish mode of transportation and is essentially inexcusable
at this point in history.

~~~
tjohns
Couldn’t one buy carbon credits to offset the emissions? Or pay extra to fill
up the plane with a carbon-neutral biofuel?

~~~
NullPrefix
>carbon-neutral biofuel

Diesel powered jets. Instant classic :D

~~~
tjohns
Who said anything about diesel? Airlines can already purchase biofuel-derived
Jet A.

Distribution is still limited, but it is available at a few major airports.
For instance, I just took a flight on SAS. They have an option to pay extra to
use biofuel for one’s share of the flight.

------
StavrosK
> While the evidence for this has been mostly anecdotal, a study published in
> 2017 by the National Business Aviation Association, the industry’s
> D.C.–based advocacy group, drew a correlation between companies in the S&P
> 500 that deploy business aircraft versus those that don’t; the users
> outperformed non-users by 70 percent.

AKA the higher-performing companies could afford private jets. What is up with
this spurious assumption of causation?

~~~
some_random
Have you read the study? How do you know that they didn't control for this?
Seems like a pretty spurious assumption.

~~~
StavrosK
The article says "the study found a correlation" and then promotes it to an
assumption. One of their two sentences is wrong.

~~~
some_random
I mean the "higher-performing companies" part, I would assume any SP500 can
buy a private jet if it chooses. Yeah, the article's obviously wrong.

------
motohagiography
What's weird to me is the value business puts on being physically present
places.

It's great to have the opportunity and serendipity of being somewhere, but you
can get that flying commercial, even moreso flying coach. That it's the person
sitting in the place that makes a decision go in a particular direction, and
not just reasoning it though and using communications tech seems odd. If you
need something, you need it. I don't see what's so complicated.

What is that magic juice?

On the other hand, I'm also watching a deal get scuttled right now because of
the lack of personal introduction and relationship between the negotiating
parties (it's online, and you can just see the value physically evaporating
for lack of trust and reciprocity).

But what's the difference? Is it just charisma?

~~~
CryptoBanker
In a lot of instances the difference is the respect your physical presence
brings because of that time and effort travel takes

~~~
NullPrefix
Bareback horse ride from LA to a meeting in NY just for those extra respect
points?

------
VengefulCynic
By way of talking my own book, I would note that the experience of having a
big-screen tv, surround sound, and your PS4 on the plane is nothing to sneeze
at.

As someone who puts in-flight entertainment systems in private jets, the only
common thing I've seen in the ownership groups is an ability to afford the
price tag. There are definitely a lot of buyers who are getting into this for
time gains, but there are also buyers who are simply interested in privacy,
luxury, or some peace and quiet. I ended up having to troubleshoot an in-
flight issue on a ~$60 million private jet and the investment in sound-
proofing insulation is totally worth it.

------
baybal2
What they write is something weird. I did a website for a man who does luxury
yacht rentals in China as a side project. He was somewhat close to that
industry.

I heard that very few people, even billionaires really own their jets.
Leasing, rent, "uber," and club memberships are way more common.

Second, you do not save time flying a private jet. He said he knew a number of
CEOs who had more than enough money for a charter, but often had to fly
economy class because it's the only ticket you can realistically buy same day
on a minute notice. One said that arranging a private flight usually takes a
week or more, and you have to be shuttled from a small, remote airport, adding
hours to the trip.

I can myself confirm the later as I once met Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo in an
economy class!

The later really tells that private charter doesn't really work anywhere but
parts of US and Europe, and more being more of a shuttle service than real
point to point transport.

~~~
sokoloff
The “small remote airport” is often closer to the eventual destination/origin.
Charters/private operator can and do, for the most part, use any airport (at
least in the US) so any decision to use a satellite airport is driven by
convenience or fees. Most charter buyers are fee insensitive (what’s another
$500 ramp fee on a $12K flight?) and convenience/time sensitive.

~~~
tomatocracy
Yes. The only obvious ones where that isn't true I can think of are the need
to go to Teterboro or Northolt instead of JFK/LaGuardia or Heathrow. But
neither of those is particularly less convenient than the commercial
alternative, just that they're still a long distance from the relevant
commercial centres.

------
krono
Same way you buy a custom yacht, you tell your PA to sort it out :)

Interesting article btw, there's a lot more to it than the title implies.

------
mothsonasloth
Out of interest, what do you think the percentage of HackerNews users would
have the the finances to buy a private jet?

~~~
FBISurveillance
Assuming you mean buy and maintain, same as the percentage of world population
that have the finances to buy a private jet.

~~~
lucideer
I would say the percentage on HN is far far higher.

The majority of HN are from the US/the anglosphere/wealthy western nations. A
large percentage of HN are in a profession that pays above average
(engineering). A smaller but I guess not insignificant percentage are
investors. HN is in no way representative of the general population.

~~~
snowwrestler
I'm sure there are far fewer people on HN at the lower end of the global
wealth scale, than in the global population.

But it takes a _lot_ of money to buy a jet. I would not be too sure that the
very top of the global wealth scale is well-represented here, either. Dicking
around on a web forum seems like a waste of time for someone with the means to
live the life they want.

------
base698
NetJets and ExecJets do fractional ownership--also owned by Berkshire
Hathaway. They are very common and almost always hear one on frequency when
I'm flying around. I've heard it described as Uber for jets.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetJets](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetJets)

------
sails
Hold your payment until the 12th Dec (UK election)

[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/04/call-for-
ba...](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/04/call-for-ban-on-uk-
private-jets-by-2025-as-flight-traffic-soars)

~~~
telesilla
If you want to splurge after jets are banned from the UK, try one of these
3-week jet getaways from the Four Seasons, only $160k..

[https://m.fourseasons.com/privatejet/journeys/remote-
wonders...](https://m.fourseasons.com/privatejet/journeys/remote-
wonders-2021/)

------
cascom
What’s funny is that if time is really the motivator, there are so many more
cost efficient ways of gaining time then corporate aviation. And most of the
people who use corporate aviation, haven’t optimized their time in other parts
of their lives E.g. have a personal trainer come to your house everyday (as
opposed to going to the gym), get a personal chef to cook your meals, move
closer to work (or have work move closer to you),etc.

~~~
shin_lao
>most of the people who use corporate aviation, haven’t optimized their time
in other parts of their lives

Everyone I know who flies private optimized their time way beyond what you
described. Is your experience different?

~~~
cascom
Definitely - 95% of the people I know who fly private don’t have chauffeurs
(for example) - which would be a much greater time savings over the course of
the year.

I think it just shows that either a. The time argument is a rationalization or
b. It’s socially more acceptable to spend money largely out of sight on
corporate aviation, rather than having people in your everyday life see an
enormous household staff

~~~
giarc
I wouldn't put having a chauffeur in the same category as flying private.
Sure, having someone else drive you around allows you to make phone calls,
check email in the back seat. But flying private allows you to set your
schedule and not wait around for the next flight out.

There is a video (and I believe it's linked in this thread) about a Walmart
exec visiting stores across the country. It's likely in some small to medium
sized town with a regional airport. If they meet with the team from 9-12 and
the next flight out isn't until 5pm, they are wasting that time waiting.
Instead they fly their plane in, meet, fly out at 12:15 and are in the next
town with the next manager in 45 minutes.

~~~
manigandham
That's exactly why Walmart maintains a fleet, they can fit more meetings in 1
day and also return them back home without overnight stays in multiple cities.
The faster communication and responsiveness of execs to regional issues more
than makes up for the cost.

------
lisper
Owning a jet doesn't save you time. If you want to save time, you rent.

In the late 1990s I was a newly minted private pilot and I decided to fly my
(rented) Cessna 182 from El Monte, California to Santa Barbara to attend a
conference. It didn't make any financial sense, I just did it because it was
cool. With the overhead of getting to and from the airport it actually took me
longer to get to the conference in the plane than it would have taken me to
drive (and of course it cost about 5x as much).

One of the other attendees also arrived in a private plane, and that was
Charles Simonyi. It turned out that my little Cessna was parked next to his
Falcon jet, so at the end of the conference I offered him a ride back to the
airport, which he accepted.

Simonyi got aboard his jet (after giving me a little tour) and I went to do my
pre-flight. As I was doing that I heard the engines on Simonyi's plane spool
up and down, up and down, and then shut down. Then the door opened and Simonyi
got out, so I went over to see what was going on.

"Disaster," he said. They had a red light on one of the engines. The plane was
grounded. And he had to be in Hungary in 15 hours (or something like that) for
a family member's wedding.

I offered to fly him to LAX in my Cessna where he could pick up a commercial
flight, but he declined. So I left him there, stuck at the airport like any
ordinary shmoe.

Many years later I learned about charter jets. If you have the coin, you can
get a jet dispatched to you on demand. I have no idea why Simonyi didn't just
do that. At the time I had no idea it was possible, so it didn't occur to me
to ask.

Chartering is both cheaper and more reliable than owning by wide margins. The
only reason to own is so you can keep your toothbrush on the plane.

But nowadays, with a laptop and a cell phone, location is pretty much
irrelevant. There's not a whole lot of difference in terms of productivity
between being at home or at the office and being in an airport lounge. So
there is really no excuse for anyone to fly private unless you really need to
pack in more site visits than commercial schedules will allow. That's not a
whole lot of folks, and it's certainly not the CEO. If you're the CEO of the
kind of company that can afford private jet money, people should be coming to
you.

~~~
manigandham
> " _If you 're the CEO of the kind of company that can afford private jet
> money, people should be coming to you._"

Renting makes sense but that line doesn't. CEOs aren't the boss, they serve
their customers. They're often the face of the company and always the top
salesperson.

You go to your customers and keep them happy if you want to be in business,
you don't demand they come to you. The bigger the company, the more the CEO
tends to travel.

~~~
lisper
That is a good point.

------
ksec
If time is the reason why Private Jet succeed, I am going to guess BOOM [1]
will succeed, cutting flying time by half is a lot.

And is there any reason why all jet are so narrow, the point is they dont feel
spacious at all. Is that the limits of Aerodynamics?

[1] [https://boomsupersonic.com](https://boomsupersonic.com)

~~~
throwaway1777
They aren’t always as narrow as they look if you buy a big enough jet (an a380
is not narrow), but the main reasons are fuel efficiency, cabin pressurization
efficiency, and ease of maneuverability on the ground.

------
gist
> In 1998, after years of legendary coach travel

Part of this was also setting an example so the company would not have to pay
for first class travel (or private) for other executives and/or employees. So
the cost is much higher than just his ticket (or his private jet). What do you
say to the VP's etc? So you suffer yourself in coach. It shows a certain
bizarre frugality.

> “he doesn’t think the company should be paying for it,”

This goes to the point that I am making. When he did fly private he paid out
of his own pocket so as not to create a circumstance that it was going to
happen for others at the company.

------
fortran77
I've heard from medium-sized companies (and also people worth about $100MM)
that they wish they had followed the "Three Fs Rule"

"If it flies, floats or 'loves', you should rent it, not own it."

------
elymar
Wendover Productions has an interesting video about the economics of private
jets: [https://youtu.be/jYPrH4xANpU](https://youtu.be/jYPrH4xANpU)

------
NetBeck
You'll need a helicopter to arrive at the airport faster.

------
010001001010
A perfect compliment for my (tongue-in-cheek) private jet gift buyers guide:
Gift Buying Guide: [https://www.travelstatsman.com/03122018/best-private-jets-
un...](https://www.travelstatsman.com/03122018/best-private-jets-
under-500-million/)

------
j7ake
I wonder if there is a way to connect with people who have private jets and
wouldn't mind picking up a passenger on the way at a price? That might be able
to lower the price point for private travel if people are willing to do that.
This depends on whether the ones having private jets are even willing to have
the hassle of random people joining their flights.

~~~
code4tee
For charter flights things along those lines already exist. For example
hopping a ride on empty leg repositioning routes.

For truly private jet flights it can be trickier. Many truly private jets
operate as private flight operations under part 91 of the FAA’s rules. That
has a lot less red tape for a private operator but means they truly need to be
a private operator and can’t pickup others for hire.

Several startups have tried to get around the above via legal loopholes via
‘Uber for airplanes’ models and got shot down by the FAA.

~~~
carrozo
“Shot down by the FAA” is a great tabloid headline. :)

------
ultim8k
I believe that business aviation exists mainly because commercial aviation is
not trustworthy. You book a flight and most of the times it's late for
whatever reason or even canceled. It's also nearly impossible to find
alternative flights for the same time if yours is canceled so you have to
cancel or delay your business meeting.

~~~
marcosdumay
Delays and cancellations aren't the norm everywhere.

What is the norm worldwide is long intervals between getting into the airport
and the airplane departure and between airplane arrival and one getting out of
the airport. As a norm passengers waste at a minimum 2 hours before departure
and 30 minutes after arrival.

~~~
ultim8k
You are right about the time waste. I don't know about aviation in US but my
experience in Europe has been the worst.

~~~
robohoe
It's pretty shitty in US depending on the airport. For example, I waste about
an hour after arriving at O'Hare in Chicago. Since it's so big it takes a
while to taxi to gate and get your bags. I haven't had that bad of an
experience elsewhere in the US except maybe Dulles in Washington, DC suburbs.

------
elvinsprop
I've noticed a few ways to save when flying private, the best being
www.jetmembership.com which provides wholesale prices for private jet flights.
Normally folks use a broker who adds a markup but this flips it into a small
membership fee to eliminate those unknowns.

------
MayeulC
> centimillionaire

That should be hectomillionnaire (hM, I guess?) if they meant ~100M. Otherwise
it's just ~100k, which is above their minimal quoted expenses per annum.

~~~
philsnow
OK I just did this because the words are fun to say:

    
    
      1B    is a   kilomillion
      100M  is a  hectomillion
      10M   is a   decamillion / dekamillion
      1M    is a       million
      100k  is a   decimillion
      10    is a  centimillion
      1k    is a  millimillion

------
pier25
Why do people still travel for business meetings?

------
aussiegreenie
No sensible person "buys" a private jet. If it flys, floats or fucks- rent
it....

------
unnouinceput
1st rule of "How to Buy a Private Jet": be billionaire.

------
LanceH
Just in time.

