
Ballmer to Hu: 90% of Microsoft customers in China using pirated software - mjfern
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/012111-ballmer-hu-china-software-piracy.html
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ikuygtyuiouy
I thought this had always been a MSFT business plan? Given that very few
people in china are going to spend a years salary on a full copy of MS Office
the alternatives are:

1, They develop their own local software

2, They adopt and localize some open source software

3, They pirate your software making you a defacto standard

Which would you prefer - long term?

~~~
pyre
They can't say that outright though. They have to pretend to want piracy to
end in China, even if that's not the case. They probably know that there's
little that will be done to stem the issue, at least at the present time.

~~~
ikuygtyuiouy
If I were the chinese I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to say -

"you're right we will introduce the death penalty for software piracy, ban the
sale of imported software at below US list price - and we will put 100,000
programmers on a plan to produce OpenOffice for the people"

~~~
moondowner
Actually, there's a Chinese fork of OpenOffice.org, it's called RedOffice. It
also has a pretty good interface!

review: <http://www.johannes-eva.net/redoffice-review>

official site: <http://www.redoffice.com/>

~~~
ikuygtyuiouy
I wonder what MS is offering in 'consultancy fees' to some government
officials for that not to become a mandated standard?

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sandGorgon
So is the case with most asian countries. So I asked around - why arent you
using Libreoffice ?

1\. Most cases - excel support is lacking. Yup, they did google for "cheap
office" and try out OpenOffice.

2\. Local language support - nobody really has it. But Windows (not just
Office) has nicer ways to find and install fonts.

Oh and the name "libreoffice" is REALLY, REALLY not working out in Asia. Even
for english speaking ones.

<begin rant> Asiatic scripts (especially China and India) need smart fonts -
<http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/52884>

However, the _default_ font technology in most open source stacks is Harfbuzz
and not SIL Graphite. The attitude towards graphite can be summarized thus
(<http://behdad.org/text/>):

 _This allows for developing fonts for minority scripts and languages without
having to update the engine first. For established scripts though, there is
not much reason to prefer Graphite over OpenType._

And by minority scripts we mean 1/5th of the world's population, the two
fastest growing economies and open source friendly governments. </end rant>

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burgerbrain
_"Oh and the name "libreoffice" is REALLY, REALLY not working out in Asia.
Even for english speaking ones."_

Huh, why in the world not? Is is a problem of limited vocabulary? Your double
emphasis on 'really' makes it seem like they know what it means, but are
actually opposed to the concept, is that it? This is just kind of a pretty
weird comment without some supporting explanation.

~~~
sandGorgon
It's not a question of understanding the meaning of "libre". Its about the
pronounciation. I used to be able to tell people to go and download "Open
Office" and they remember.

Phonetically, if you use "Librii Office" - they dont. "Libr Office" they dont.
I am not sure why - but I have spoken to dozens in India (accountants,
lawyers, etc.) and the name just doesnt have recall. Libre also is not a
Commonwealth English word.

I'm sure everyone came up with that name with a noble intent - but it simply
isnt working in India which is extremely Anglicized as compared to most other
Asian countries. That name really needs to change.

On a curious note - in the U.S. have you spoken to a non-geek, say your pizza
delivery dude, and have brand recall of "Libreoffice" ?

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burgerbrain
Can't say I have. I'm a FOSS fanatic but I don't hate anybody I know enough to
suggest they use OpenOffice/LibreOffice.

Seriously, the name should be the last of that project's worries...

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Kilimanjaro
Given two super powers, one infested with patents and IP laws that limit
progress, the other one with zero patent laws where everybody can further
develop the work of others, which one do you think will progress faster?

If I was the chinese president I would be flipping the bird to the cameras
with a smile in my face.

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eddanger
Hu to Ballmer: Ha ha!

Could it be MS is estimating the Windows install base is much larger than it
really is?

~~~
kongqiu
Wow, I had the exact same thought: "Hu smiles -- 'yes, and...?'"

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wyclif
Similar situation in the Philippines. All the Filipino developers I know
learned their craft with pirated copies of MSFT software.

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pb-add
One more price differential "Western" workers are working against.

I recall when India was starting up its external-facing tech industry. There
were a few conversations about how one way they kept costs down was by not
paying for any software licenses.

I found and find it ironic, that the same companies that are so gung ho about
IP rights in the "West", were (and are) perfectly willing to take advantage of
their disregard when seeking lower prices by farming work out to "developing
economies".

At this point, I respect IP inasmuch as it can break me financially or maybe
get me thrown in the pokey. Morally, though? I'll make my decisions on an
individual basis, but I find I have no respect nor regard for a great deal of
claimed rights. The claimants are bald faced hypocrites.

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stretchwithme
Why don't they make their most valuable features only work if a valid license
was shown to a server within the last week?

Seems like there's no way Google Apps could have unauthorized users precisely
because you do need to login to their servers.

There advantages to having Office installed locally, but surely this is a big
enough problem to change how things work. 90% is a lot.

~~~
Roboprog
I'm sure somebody within the 1 billion people there in China could crack
whatever protection they put on. Maybe even on day 1 :-)

~~~
electromagnetic
Even still, assuming ludicrous 100% market penetration in the US and China.
Microsoft would still be making 1/3 in China that it is in the US (assuming 0%
piracy in the US).

I don't know a single person who has legal copies of Office or Photoshop that
didn't come free and I've lived in the UK and live in Canada.

What MSFT has done in the Western world is to ensure that companies (who can
afford to pay) can't have pirated copies. Essentially this is because
corporations can be sued at the drop of an envelope. I somehow don't think
China has the ease in filing suits for small amounts against companies.

~~~
wisty
Chinese lawsuits are said to be quicker, more document focused, and less
witness-testimony focused than US suits.

Downsides? Not as much discovery (don't expect the court to force the company
to do a software audit), and low damage (think money back, but no outrage).

No, I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't advice.

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alexanderswang
Actually it's more than 99%.

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kmfrk
Related: Previously, on Hacker News:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1594521>

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dgroves
Yes, because the Chinese are way to smart to pay for the crap that Microsoft
produces.

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klbarry
A little off topic, but now I'm very interested: How does Google docs make
money? I don't recall ever being targeted for an ad by the content, and
obviously regular users don't pay.

~~~
anonymous246
Business users pay $50/seat/year after the 100th user. _That's_ how they make
money. Btw, Microsoft is similar. I bet that legit sales to individuals are
tiny compared to corporate sales.

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pasbesoin
It's $50/seat/year, no matter how many users. The "Standard" version (they've
renamed it to something else, now) has lower quotas and no (non-bulletin
board) support. It also now has a cap of 50 seats (used to be higher). For a
while, you could only do video hosting and some other things on the
business/"Premier" plan; not sure about now.

Academic/non-profit is "free", but you have to prove your status somehow.

I still argue it's a bargain for the "average" business, compared to trying to
host and manage this stuff yourself. I don't know how good the support is,
though -- the rest of Google's individual / customer level support leaves me
rather doubtful. I also don't know what happens when the subpoenas start
flying.

If they ever establish HIPAA compliance/certification (I don't know whether it
is worth their while), they may get a "bazillion" health care providers.
Especially if that "whatever is currently their health records management
offer" thing works out.

But that would put them in the middle, as the records holder, of an awful lot
of litigation. From that perspective, it might be a real loser for them.
(Maybe the lobbyists are already working on this vis à vis some favorable
legislation.)

~~~
anonymous246
Hmm, ok. I just assumed that the Google Apps for Domains that I use for my
personal domain could be used by for-profits too.

~~~
pasbesoin
It can. But you have the lower space quotas, limited (more limited?) support,
and a cap of 50 user accounts. After that, you have to go "Premier" (or
whatever it's named, now), and then its $50/year/seat for _all_ seats, as I
understand it.

For a small business with limited resources, the free "Standard" version may
be fine. Especially if you're backing up and it's not a critical failure
point. Of course, for most businesses, this would likely not be the case and
it would become so.

But if you are small and only have a seat or three, $50 - $150 / year is
pretty cheap for what they offer (including however many 9's of availability).

You can even get a public web site out of it (the property formerly known as
Jotspot), as long as you can live with their templates and/or restrictions.
And with that, a WYSIWYG editor that a normal mortal might actually manage to
use mostly effectively -- especially for smaller changes to text after the
site is established.

(And you know a random herd of traffic isn't going to take the host down.)

EDIT: But I would definitely register the domain name somewhere else. Google
will sell you a registration during set up, but IMHO that may be asking for
trouble if you ever want to move it, particularly at the free/Standard level.

