
Ask HN: Best Video Call Solution for Elderly - noodlesUK
Hi HN, I’m looking for a device that I can give to my grandmother that she can use to video call me and other family members from her care home. It needs to either be completely remotely manageable by me, or it needs to not have any real settings that can be changed accidentally (and can be pre-provisioned). Ideally it would be able to connect to the internet over 4g, so it wouldn’t be at the mercy of whether her nursing home has WiFi. Basically what I want is an office phone with a video screen that can connect to a 4g network. Does any such thing exist? If not, does anyone have any suggestions?
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ac2u
When people make suggestions for this they underestimate how complicated their
suggestion can be from a UX perspective.

Sometimes your user is someone who can't text, longs for the days when a
telephone rang and the UX was to simply grip the receiver and put it to their
ear.

Even a traditional tablet can be a pain because the user has to spend time
finding the wake button when it's sometimes styled identically to the volume
buttons. And they can't rely on location for memory as the tablet can be
oriented different ways.

"Ohh that's not a real problem" you think.

Well, maybe not to you, but what if your eyesight is fading and you have
arthritis in your hands? Then, even a touchscreen is a pain, I've watched
folks use them where every tap happens three times to get it to "register"

I think an appropriate video device for OP's gran needs to have physical
buttons (and not many of them aside from up/down answer(ring)/hangup, and have
only one screen orientation.

Even when someone makes such devices they can't help but throw in the kitchen
sink by letting it make phone calls as well. Great, now your UX is modal
depending on whether you're making an audio or video call.

~~~
noodlesUK
You’re quite right. I tried to give my grandparents an iPad, but a few months
ago I spent two or three hours trying to get them to reboot it and logged into
FaceTime (over the phone). About half of that was literally trying to get them
to reboot the iPad. They just couldn’t find and then hold down the power
button. They were struggling to see it, and then struggled to hold down the
button for long enough without releasing it. It was really really hard for
them. I eventually gave up, and they were very frustrated with the iPad and
themselves.

~~~
ivank
FWIW, this can also be done with Settings -> General -> Shut Down.

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jedimastert
Somewhat related but I just wanted to brag on my dad:

My dad is a pastor that runs Sunday mornings at a relatively large church.
Roughly 600 people on a Sunday morning over a few services; not mega-church,
but definitely bigger than the vast majority of Methodist churches. Over time
he's become the "technology guy". He's not (or at least wasn't) particularly
more competent than most, but wasn't afraid to learn and get his hands dirty,
so to speak. Now I would call him plenty sav.

One of his passions is bringing the church to people who can't come to the
building. A lot of personal visits to shut ins and hospitals, and recently
this meant live streaming. We already had a two camera broadcasting set up, so
it was pretty simple to plug it in to the internet (some sort of turn key
"send audio and video to this box with an ethernet cable and we"ll stream to
everywhere elsed" kinda deals) and off we go.

As an even more aside, I just want to shout out that since the epidemic
started he basically started producing 3-4 hours of video each week to live
stream.

Anywho, this lead to him asking me how eldery-proof we could make in-home
streaming for folks who can't always leave the house, or maybe want to watch
VODs if they miss a week or something. I mused that the turn key solution he
was using made a few TV streaming options (apps on Fire TV, Roku, Android,
etc.) and you could probably set one of those up to start automagically on
boot or something.

About two weeks later he calls me up and, to my genuine amazement, has
actually come up with a solution. He set up a Roku with a remote that custom
app buttons, set up the streaming app (again, this is an app specifically for
streaming our church) on one of those buttons, and set the app up in such a
way that the first button hops onto the live stream. He even set up pretty
good UX studies with a bunch of elderly folks to make sure his instructions
were clear!

He ended up getting sponsored for about a hundred of them from a few generous
folks around the church and personally set them up in folks homes.

~~~
technofiend
It occurs to me that a combination of Amazon products might yield a similar
outcome by way of the Alexa skills system, albeit at the price of asking
someone to talk to their Alexa or TV remote. Your solution sounds a little
more straightforward for people unsure of technology.

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lawrencegs
I have couple of friends who use Facebook Portal for their non-tech savvy
grandparents. Seems like the lack of features (compared to other tablets) make
it easier for them to use it. Another thing, it integrates with WhatsApp (a
big plus for many!)

[https://portal.facebook.com/](https://portal.facebook.com/)

~~~
nindalf
I use the portal and I like it a lot. I can see why older people would love it
too. The UI is simple - large buttons to call each contact and once you're in
the call, a red button to end the call. There is a hardware button to disable
audio and camera, if necessary. Elderly users don't need to worry about
charging because it's plugged in. They don't need to worry about focussing the
camera to their face because it does it automatically.

Side note - camera quality is good. I've had multiple friends comment about
how my video is much better than the other folks in the call.

------
vlad_ungureanu
My grandparents are in their early 80s or late 70s and aren't very open to
learn new technologies.

For the past 7 years they used and iPad (one of the early models 2nd or 3rd
generations) and it served them well. I've introduced the the family contacts,
put FaceTime and Photo library on the first screen and it seems ok for them.
I've also annotated what volume button do and teach them that if they have a
problem with it to press the big button (home button).

The only problem with the iPad is that recently there are some connectivity
issues (it seems it doesn't always stay connected to Wi-Fi and they don't
receive my FaceTime calls). I think this may be due to the old iOS it's using
(v10 or v9). So, considering to buy them a newer version.

~~~
noodlesUK
This is a problem I’ve experienced as well. As apple devices get much older,
you run into things like password nags much more frequently. This is extremely
off putting for someone who isn’t familiar with tech. Eventually some apps
just stop working at all. Then you try to give them a new device, and it’s
just similar enough to be extra confusing.

------
dtnewman
GrandPad. Ninety four year old grandmother uses it and loves it. Easy to use
tablet, great customer support that only works with seniors and their app for
other family managers is surprisingly good. It’s literally made for this
purpose.

~~~
newmnhn
I've had a rough time with GrandPad. Tried to set it up for a family to use
during covid, the mother is in her 60s and pretty competent with tech - they
use iPads, Kindles etc just fine. We tried to change the registration of the
GrandPad from her billing and they said they needed to ship us a whole new
device. Then they said they could just ship a new sim. So anyway she's gotten
the new sim in the mail and has had such a frustrating time with it & can't
get it to do video calls. She's wanting me to take it back.

The whole idea was that it would be simple enough that her son with Down
Syndrome could use it to keep in touch with friends. He's smart, he can use
gmail, but he can't use this thing.

Honestly my perspective on them has been that it's a cheap thing, UX is a real
mixed bag, customer service not great, & I deeply regret losing the time we've
spent trying to work with it vs exploring other solutions. Ugh. I even don't
want to go pick it up to try and deal with it from my side.

Glad you have had a better experience, but let's just say it's not universal!

------
sneeuwpopsneeuw
My grandmother has an Ipad and an IPhone. We sometimes video call her on here
phone using whatsapp. But this works around 50% of the time correctly and the
other times we just call using a regular land line phone. She uses the Ipad
only as a image viewer. We showed her multiple times how to google something
but that is just to difficult for her. But she understands how to watch the
photo's we put on the device, and she really likes to watch the old photo's of
all our vacations together. So my recommendation would be use something that
your grandmother is already comfortable with and start thinking from there.
Introducing something new can be hard for her even if it is simpeler.

~~~
noodlesUK
She’s unfortunately not a smartphone or tablet user at the moment, and I doubt
that she has any desire (or ability) to learn how to use one... Basically I
want a landline phone that can also do video

~~~
arethuza
The feature on my iPad that utterly entranced my mother in law (in her 80s)
was Google Street View - she was absolutely fascinated by being able to
"visit" places she had been before.

------
at_a_remove
I have helped both my mother and some elderly folks with their computers and
have a few observations which may be of some help.

1) UI changes really bother them. A lot of that crew works on muscle memory --
an icon moves and they get lost. They don't easily re-parse a new UI for
changes.

2) Click speed decreases, so double-clicks are much harder. A single
deliberate click is fine, but the doubles seem to pose problems.

3) The iPad doesn't seem to work for some. When I found there was no easy
cheat sheet available (the ones I found seemed either insufficient or were
focused on trivia/new-hotness), I made a series of laminated sheets. One
described the various screens, one pointed out the parts of an iPad (controls,
mostly). The third showed the different "gestures" (the important ones,
anyway). This just ... didn't take. She doesn't care for it. Possibly due to
#1 -- I am considering getting a laptop and using Classic Shell to fake that
it is XP just so she feels comfortable again.

4) Visual acuity varies widely but you're probably on top of that.

5) Plugging things in can be problematic, so some kind of easy docking station
or wireless charging might be better if available.

I have been watching this post with interest.

------
daviroo
I’m using an echo show for this use case. My granddad has dementia and lives
at home on his own. I set up some blink cameras in his house to watch for
falls and setup an echo show so family could speak with him during lockdown.
The big advantage I found about the echo show is the “drop in” feature which
allows starting a video call with no interaction from his side.

~~~
noodlesUK
How do you feel about “drop in”? It feels a little invasive. Do you have the
option to have the device ring rather than just dropping in, whilst still
maintaining the option in an emergency?

~~~
daviroo
There’s no doubt that the cameras and drop in features are an invasion of his
privacy. Unfortunately his dementia is advanced enough that we couldn’t ask
him if this was ok before we put it in. His son has power of attorney over him
(allows him to make legal decisions on his behalf) and as I am the only person
who has access to these features and the intent is to help protect/care for
him, we felt it was a fair trade off.

You can limit the people who can “drop in” on the device, so I guess you could
let most friends and family use the call feature and save the drop in feature
for certain trusted family members to use in an emergency.

------
bartkappenburg
Take a look at KOMP:
[https://www.noisolation.com/uk/komp/](https://www.noisolation.com/uk/komp/)?

Heared some good stories about them in a podcast I recently listened. Not
cheap, but the UI/UX should be very good.

------
el_dev_hell
Video chat and elderly relatives was a pain point in my life for a few years.
I spent quite a lot of time finding a solution (spoiler: it's FaceTime and 4G
iPads).

Things I tried:

\- Initially, I tried Skype on a Windows laptop (around 2011). This was a
nightmare for everyone. There were too many points of failure (wifi would
disconnect and require a support phone call, Windows would update and require
a phonecall to log back in, Skype would require an update and trigger a
support call, etc).

\- Around 2013, I tried an Android tablet with the Skype App over wifi. This
was just as bad as a laptop (the app was also pretty unstable.

\- I switched to Google Hangouts. The UI was an issue and was also unstable.

\- In 2014/2015, I gifted an old Macbook Air. I set this up with Facetime and
also Skype. My relatives preferred Skype initially (since they had experience
with the app), but I showed them how to make and answer FaceTime calls over a
Christmas weekend and they picked it up in less than an hour. The MacBook
setup was great, but it died in 2016.

\- In 2016, I gifted them an iPad with 4G. We continued communicating with
FaceTime (and iMessage). This has been flawless for the past 4 years. I update
the iPad each year over Christmas. I've only had one support call to install
Snapchat (so my grandparents can keep in contact with a great-grandchild).

If the iPad dies anytime soon, I would consider Facebook Portal as an
alternative.

------
izacus
I'm also looking for something like this - I tried using an iPad but the
experience on newer iOS is just too confusing and error prone for elder users.
It also doesn't really support locking to single task well.

I've been looking at Skype desk phones but those were discontinued as well.
Google Home smart devices are nice for video calls, but you can't disable
Assistant functionality. Happy to hear any other recommendations.

~~~
rjmunro
I was thinking Google home devices might work. Is assistant actually a
problem? I wondered if it would be actually useful for some people.

------
TheGrkIntrprtr
I FULLY recommend the Claris Companion:
[https://www.clariscompanion.com/](https://www.clariscompanion.com/). It keeps
things as simple as possible, and they provide tech support. I've used them
for over a year now I think and I've been very satisfied. My grandfather is in
his 90s and is able to use it in his care home.

The UI takes over the normal android UI to make things very simple. It also
provides an email/messaging system which blocks out communication from anyone
but the approved contacts, so there's no need to worry about email scams etc.

I'm not sure if they ship to the UK but they have a 4G version. But if you can
get a 4G device, you could still use their app.

The key thing is absolute simplicity of interface and use, and this service is
great for that.

Sorry this sounds like an ad, but it's seriously provided so much value to me
in being able to keep in touch with and see my grandfather from 1000s of kms
away.

------
detaro
Tablet with Kid/Kiosk mode to only allow one app? E.g. iPad with Facetime?

~~~
izacus
I tried doing that for my family and iOS has this wierd restriction where it
drops all incoming calls automatically when you use Kiosk/SingleApp mode. Even
if FaceTime is open in foreground.

~~~
andylynch
You could also limit the iPad to running Facetime only in Apple Configurator.

~~~
izacus
That's exactly the case where iPad starts dropping calls.

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syrgian
An Echo Show device matches most of your requirements: low configuration,
remotely manageable, plus it's voice-managed. Sadly there are no 4G versions,
but you could solve it with a small plugged 4G router.

~~~
noodlesUK
I’m leaning towards this, at least from a hardware standpoint it sounds like
an echo show is a good bet (assuming there is WiFi or a hotspot). Can one be
set up without a mobile phone number though? I’m reading about them, and that
sounds like it might be a sticking point.

~~~
syrgian
I think the Amazon account does need a phone number, but it could be any phone
number you have access to, or the phone number used by the hotspot.

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DEADBEEFC0FFEE
A Chromebook with a sim, and a USB receiver. Chrome books can be managed, I'm
not sure if they have Sim slots. Possibly not, in which case a 4G USB device
or 4G wifi might have to do.

~~~
mav3rick
There are LTE Chromebooks by Dell and Samsung

------
bouvin
I use a combination of a conventional phone with FaceTime on an iPad with my
90 years old mother. I call her on the phone (which works much better with her
hearing aid), and then I connect through FaceTime for the video. If there are
any technical issues, I can walk her through them. We have been doing this
every evening for the past three months without any insurmountable problems.
Having the iPad on a dock helps, as it keeps the orientation constant.

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Yetanfou
I use a combination of Nextcloud Talk (for 1-on-1 conversations) and Jitsi
Meet (for larger groups) with my 82yo mother, she has NC Talk and Jitsi on her
phone and tablet and access to both through the browser on her laptop. We use
Telegram to schedule meetings through Jitsi Meet or for those cases where NC
Talk doesn't notify the called party that someone is calling. It works fine,
we use it for ~30 minutes per day, every day.

------
andylynch
An basic iPad/iPhone could work well - even when he was too young to unlock
and use it much, my son was able to voice dial with 'Hey Siri, call Dad on
Facetime' etc, and it was easy to make it to work from the lock screen. He
didn't even need to touch it - turning on auto answer in the accessibility
settings helped too.

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jtchang
Hi. I am actually working on a solution for this. My grandma has a bit of
dementia combined with hearing loss and a language barrier. This led me a
solution of a remotely managed box with video camera hooked up to a TV. I'd
love to chat with you and get to know your use case more. Feel free to e-mail
me.

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macca321
Sadly these ipad/iphone/facetime combos only work if everyone in your family
is on Apply. In the ROTW, that's not so common...

My mum, who's got dementia, can just about work her portal to make and receive
calls.

I've heard giving them an android tablet with Skype app set to auto-answer may
be the most foolproof x-platform way.

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lancewiggs
iPad and FaceTime. Keep it simple. Bonus - others in the facility will have
the same, including staff.

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ntnlabs
I'm thinking about on-premise solution for my family, but that would involve a
point-to-point calls only and LAN stretched thru all my family networks
connected with VPN devices. But that is a bit overkill for Your scenario I
guess...

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INTPenis
If you prep their phone with Jitsi Meet then it's very simple to use. My
elderly mother even managed to follow the Jitsi link I sent her in a text
message, to the Play store, install the app and connect.

~~~
noodlesUK
This requires them to have a phone and know how to use it... She does not.

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Spooky23
Seriously, iPad. If they can’t handle the old navigation, setup an MDM and put
it in single app mode with managed contacts.

I have a client who uses this as a quick and dirty reception system in 3-4
offices.

------
torresjrjr
This is probably relevant to your search for good UX

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23589798](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23589798)

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numpad0
I think Amazon Echo Show line has video call auto-answer with a time window to
refuse, so once configured the remote side don’t have to be able to understand
how to stop ringtone and start talking.

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rspoerri
the mother of my gf has problems keeping devices loaded. mostly because she
has alzheimer, but dont forget about that aspect.

also, how are you calling, is it always on, is the speaker loud enough and
microphone good and lastly is her privacy not compromised?

a solution to easily start a video chat without user registration is
whereby.com , but thats mostly good if you already have a remote device, but
no control over it.

elderly people are not stupid, they have different experiences and interests.
if they want to learn how to use a device, they are likely able to do so.

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m_eiman
Perhaps some sort of telepresence system is what would work best, but I don't
know if there are any such systems available for non-enterprise uses?

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Synaesthesia
My grandpa loves his iPad. Best computer for old people.

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codingdave
I'm not understanding why a smartphone, with parental controls enabled to
prevent her accidentally changing settings, would not work?

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mister_hn
A Kindle Fire HD with Telegram would be really good and easy to use.

~~~
gnufx
I have experimental evidence that a Kindle Fire wouldn't, for an elderly
father losing his faculties, after my sister and nephew insisted he should
have one and use skype. Just getting the on/off switch is bad enough, along
with other problems mentioned here. The whole thing was bad enough for me as a
hacker used to android, specifically interacting with skype.

