

Student makes history with human-powered ‘flapping-wing’ plane - faramarz
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/864633--u-of-t-student-makes-history-with-human-powered-flapping-wing-plane?bn=1

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alex_c
Went to school with Todd - he was one of those people who always seemed to
have the energy and the dedication to be involved in every extracurricular
activity out there, while getting top grades in arguably Canada's most
challenging engineering program, and being an incredibly nice guy to boot.

Not surprised to see his name in the news :)

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faramarz
This is pretty amazing! watch the video here <http://www.vimeo.com/15168317>

The wings really are flapping like a bird!

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dibs
The wing movement looks so natural, its even beautiful.

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pg
Do any aeronautical engineers know if it's getting any benefit from ground
effect at that altitude?

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spydez
I'm not an aeronautic engineer, but I used to be a pilot. I would say yes,
he's getting increased lift by being that close to the ground.

My sources include dusty memories and Wikipedia, so... grains of salt all
around.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_in_aircraft>

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borism
IIRC as long as it's half the wingspan from the surface yes

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jjcm
I suppose my question here is such: Does the flapping actually generate enough
lift to both sustain and initiate flight? We've had gliders that can stay
afloat for ages with the right thermals, but they (like we see in this video
as well) require something powered to get them started. It's beautiful, yes,
but from what I can see in the video it looks like it's almost entirely
aesthetics.

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faramarz
I'll quote a comment made on the article

    
    
      "There is a minimum requirement for flight which
     it met. That involves maintaining altitude and
     speed over a certain period of time, whereas in
     a glide you either lose speed to maintain altitude
     until stall or lose altitude to maintain speed until ground.
     The flyer maintained and even appeared to gain 
     altitude after the pull cord was released from the car
     and maintained speed throughout the flight. If you are
     wondering how I get this from the video, it's because
     I am familiar with the researchers who did this."

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pepijndevos
A good glider can easily do dozens of meters while losing only one meter in
height(I flew one), so it is impossible to tell from the shaky video. But if
he knows those guys and tells the truth, awesome!

It looks beautiful anyway though.

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seles
Human powered planes already exist, using propellers.

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pfedor
No idea why anyone would have downvoted you:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp7yv67B5Sc>

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seles
Probably because I was too lazy to post a video, thanks :)

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pedalpete
Not to downplay the importance of what they've done, but that video shows a
plane gliding, accelerated by a car.

Wouldn't they need to show lift via the flapping of wings to show that it
isn't a glider with wings that flap, but rather the flapping of wings is
actually creating lift?

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faramarz
Cabin has wheels under it. I think in an ideal environment, for example a
runway, he could have created lift by just flapping the wings with enough
speed over a certain period of time.

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wwortiz
Actually it really looks as though the wings only provide lift and that
acceleration provided by the car could not be achieved otherwise and the
forward movement could not be achieved therefore making it rather unlikely
that the plane would lift off the ground on its own.

Still rather amazing and a very beautiful machine.

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pedalpete
you both bring up very valid points. thanks for educating me!

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anigbrowl
I'm not clear on what benefit it would offer over a glider or microlite. Not
that I have anything against quirky projects for their own sake, but since he
is a PhD candidate I imagine he must have some applications in mind beyond the
aesthetic ones emphasized in the article.

Project information and research links are interesting but not very
informative: <http://hpo.ornithopter.net/>

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lotharbot
I'm not sure why you'd expect a PhD candidate to necessarily have a practical
application in mind.

The idea of human-powered machines that mimic bird flight has been around
since ancient times (recall the myth of Daedalus), and there have been several
attempts to actually build one over the last thousand years or so. This
appears to be the first ever successful flight of its type. Given the history
behind it, it would not be the least bit surprising if this is being done just
for its own sake.

See also: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornithopter>
<http://www.flyingmachines.org/davi.html>

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anigbrowl
Not for the ornithopter itself, I just there'd be technical discussions of
airflow over a moving wing or minimum change in the angle of attack required
to generate a certain amount of lift...seems like the sort of thing that might
be useful to helicopter rotor designers or so.

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elblanco
I bet using a small motor, 1/2hp or so, could do wonders in an ornithopter
like this. Humans can't sustain that kind of workload for very long.

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forgottenpaswrd
That's a beautiful glider. But not human powered, it is car powered with
strings attached. If you hear the wind sound, it seems they are using wind to
lift too.

History is not made yet.

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Tichy
It looks like it is being pulled by a car?

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dangrossman
It looked like it was pulled by a car until it was airborne, then you saw and
heard the cord disconnect and the plane continue to fly on its own power as
the car with the cameraman drove off at a slight angle.

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Tichy
How is that different from a glider, though? If the power comes from the car,
I don't consider it very exciting.

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Deestan
A glider will slowly lose speed x altitude. This plane maintained a steady
speed x altitude through flapping.

