
Neurogenesis linked to aerobic exercise - hecubus
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/04/how-neuroscientists-explain-the-mind-clearing-magic-of-running.html
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nacc
Most of the neurogenesis studies are done in rodents. So the conclusion should
be carefully taken, especially for something like neurogenesis which varies
wildly across species.

Running promotes neurogenesis, but also enriched environment, many drugs,
genetics etc. Its effect in mice is also somewhat elusive at this point: we
aren't sure whether it promotes learning or forgetting.

That being said, all the nice cognitive effects from exercise probably all due
to endorphins (literally endogenous morphine) released in the brain
afterwards.

~~~
pizza
How distinguishable are externally introduced endorphins to morphine or
heroin?

Billion dollar startup idea: insulin pump-like device that lets you watch
hours of ads for heroin infusions..

~~~
Nav_Panel
Actually, runner's high is caused by endocannabinoids, not endorphins. This
NYT article[1] has a decent writeup and a link to the actual journal article.
So, not sure how well your startup idea will work, THC infusions maybe?

[1] [http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2015/10/07/homing-in-
on...](http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2015/10/07/homing-in-on-the-
source-of-runners-high/?referer=)

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ns8sl
A treatment for PTSD, called EMDR, involves trying to enhance the right/left
communication in the brain. This is done by eye tracking back and forth from
left to right. I personally know two people that this was effective on, but
__there is a lack of hard data __on whether this works or not in general.

However, the PTSD specialist that worked with these two individuals suggested
that running (and walking) long distances can create the same effect since the
person is continually scanning the environment. This would alleviate PTSD
symptoms plus anxiety and depression in her patients.

~~~
Alex3917
If scanning the environment while walking or jogging works, then I'd recommend
learning how to identify edible mushrooms. Whenever you're outside you go into
24/7 extreme scanning mode that is pretty much impossible to turn off.

Beginning mushroom hunters find mushrooms by seeing them. Expert mushroom
hunters just see things in their peripheral vision that are consistent with a
mushroom being there. (E.g. some leaves out of place, a pop of color where
there shouldn't be, a wisp of smoke, etc.) By the time you actually
consciously focus your eyes/attention on the area and get close enough to see
whether or not there really is a mushroom, you're already pretty sure whether
or not you've found something.

~~~
astrange
Why a wisp of smoke? Because they see something grey or are mushrooms out
there starting forest fires?

~~~
Alex3917
If the mushrooms are older you can sometimes see the spores before seeing the
actual mushroom. This obviously happens with puffballs, but I've also seen it
with Honey Mushrooms and Maitake.

These are really bad for you to breathe in though, so if you see this
happening then definitely go in the other direction.

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thomyorkie
Unfortunately, some of the benefits of running may prove elusive to those of
us living in urban settings.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23073213](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23073213)

~~~
rl3
Could always run in a 3M respirator. The reduced airflow would make it extra
intense, if not untenable. On the other hand, frequent breaks due to being
stopped by police would probably balance that out.

~~~
snom380
There are some reviews of different options here:
[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-
blog/2015/oct/0...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-
blog/2015/oct/07/avoiding-pollution-on-bike-we-test-cycling-anti-pollution-
masks-respro-totobobo-biologic)

~~~
thomyorkie
Some of the more dangerous pollutants are ultra-fine particles (less than
100nm in size). I wonder how effective these masks are for trapping these
particles. I can only find information on how well they trap particles larger
than 100nm.

~~~
dghughes
Many people don't realize how dangerous small particles can be over many
years. Something that doesn't seem dangerous can cause scars on lung tissue
with constant exposure to it over many years.

My dad has idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis or IPF it's probably from breathing
in small particles over the years which causes scarring of lung tissue.
Although the idiopathic part means how it occurs is not known for sure. He
worked a blue collar job and often breathed in dust from various things.

Lungs are only for air don't mess with your lungs!

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maga
> After about 30 to 40 minutes of a vigorous aerobic workout – enough to make
> you sweat – studies have recorded increased blood flow to this region,
> which, incidentally, is associated with many of the attributes we associate
> with “clear thinking”: planning ahead, focus and concentration, goal-
> setting, time management.

I wonder how HIIT stacks up against running in this regard. When done
properly, it's impossible to do it for the said 30 minutes, yet it makes one
sweat no less than that 40 minute run. For example, the routine I follow daily
takes about 15 minutes and consists of series of calisthenics a minute/half a
minute long with 20 seconds of rest between them. By 15 minutes mark it leaves
me breathless and drives every muscle to exhaustion. If it's all about blood
movement, then I assume HIIT should compare well since the routine quickly
drives my heart rate up and keeps it relatively high for hours afterwards.

~~~
rifung
They only talk about neurogenesis here but here's an article that says it's
not as good for neurogenesis.

[http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/02/17/which-type-of-
exerc...](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/02/17/which-type-of-exercise-is-
best-for-the-brain/?_r=0)

I could find being forced to randomly run on a treadmill and then slow down to
be extremely stressful, which is bad for neurogenesis, so I don't know how
representative this experiment is.

~~~
maga
Agree, the stress might have negated possible positive outcomes. In my case,
though, I'm sticking with it purely for the joy of it--15 min. of HIIT at the
end of the work while you are hungry and tired followed by a cold shower/bath
for another 15 min. is like being knocked out and woken up after a long sleep
--makes you relaxed and focused for the rest of the evening.

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StanislavPetrov
>vigorous aerobic exercise, said Karen Postal, president of the American
Academy of Clinical Neuropsychology. “That’s it,” she said. “That’s the only
trigger that we know about.”

Actually that isn't true.

[https://www.jci.org/articles/view/25509](https://www.jci.org/articles/view/25509)

~~~
copperx
I thought antidepressants such as Prozac were shown to have a neurogenesis
effect.

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Swizec
Considering we are the most long-distance and endurance optimized land animal
evolution has come up with, why do we continue to be surprised that running is
good for us?

~~~
hkon
I think that when we as individuals each discover this, we are struck by it.
It's one thing to read that exercise is good for you, another thing to
actually feel the goodness.

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lloydde
If you enjoy that article I think you will get heaps out of John J. Ratey's
book Spark. It describes the connections between mental health and exercise in
many dimensions. I like that it both speaks layperson and gives scientific
details to spring off from, but some friends wish it was either or, not both.

~~~
hawkice
If you enjoyed this article it's hard to imagine there exist other things on
the subject you wouldn't enjoy much more. Read What I Talk About When I Talk
About Running, which is mentioned in the article, for instance.

~~~
copperx
The author started running because he knew writing was a very unhealthy line
of work that could lead to an early grave.

Those of us in technology should be even more worried.

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hkon
It feels good after a workout. Running or powerlifting, I feel the same
effects.

~~~
mgiannopoulos
Endorphins make you happy. That's my response to anyone asking why I "bother"
to run

~~~
abstractbeliefs
In your personal experience, did you find it taken some amount of practice, or
to clear a certain barrier of fitness, before you started to enjoy running?

I've been training for about three months now and I spent about 6 weeks of
that feeling sick the entire time, and the more recent 6 weeks just not
enjoying it.

~~~
david-given
Some people just don't enjoy exercise. I'm one of them. The only way I can do
it is through sheer willpower.

I've heard about the endorphin thing; I think it's happened to me exactly
once, after climbing a mountain, and it was really creepy and I don't want it
to happen again. The only thing I feel when finishing exercise is 'oh thank
god that's over'.

What I've found is that the more I train, the fitter I get, and so the longer
I can prolong the discomfort, stress and boredom. Maybe you're not one of
those people --- but if you are, I'm sorry.

(In fact, the most _annoying_ thing are that the people who _do_ enjoy
exercise simply don't believe any of this, and produce unhelpful platitudes
like 'you just haven't found something you like yet' or 'but if you keep doing
it you'll find you're enjoying it'...)

~~~
tormeh
You could try doing "fun" things instead of things that rely on endorphins.
Bouldering, wrestling, soccer... Something that keeps your brain occupied as
well as your muscles.

I don't really follow my own advice, but I used to boulder regularly when I
lived in Berlin, and I liked it.

~~~
david-given
Bouldering I've tried --- it's okay, but it's not really aerobic exercise,
which is what I'm looking for.

Competitive sports --- flat no. They just don't keep my attention.

What I do is run, because I can build that into my commute, so it doesn't feel
like it's a _complete_ waste of time. Right now I'm capable of making myself
run to work twice a week, 7km each time, which is okay. Hopefully when summer
comes round again I'll start running back again as well.

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stinos
nitpick: The actual title of the article is "How Neuroscientists Explain the
Mind-Clearing Magic of Running" and that's like the best summary it can get.
Neurogenesis (a word not even in the article) being linked to exercise is only
one of the mechanisms involved (another commenter mentions endorphines as
well, which strangely isn't in the article)

~~~
hawkice
double nitpick: 'neurogenesis' is in the article, it is in the third sentence
of the third paragraph.

But yes, it is not the focus of the article, because the article has almost no
focus. There is an irony in the idea that a runner writing an article about
using running to get focus and calm would be so unfocused, disjoint, frenetic
and confused, but only a minor irony.

~~~
stinos
lol got me there, I thought I read it indeed but then afterwards did a page
search which didn't find any matches and I was like 'meh, computer's probably
right'. It was, because it was case sensitive and I copied 'Neurogenesis' from
the title here :]

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ajarmst
Adding a plug for Ratey's book "Spark" ([https://www.amazon.com/Spark-
Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-...](https://www.amazon.com/Spark-
Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514/)) which is a pretty good
lay introduction to a lot of the research on cognition and exercise as well as
exercise's role in ameliorating depression, anxiety, stress response, and some
neurological deficits. Recommended by my physician. Turns out the wonder drug
we were looking for might have been "take a lap".

------
rdlecler1
Anyone else feel uncomfortable and mild mental-claustrophobia when they run?
Time seems to slow to a crawl. I'be never been able to get past that to enjoy
running.

~~~
wu-ikkyu
Putting in some headphones with good pump up music on helps. Also, try running
somewhere outside with good scenery (I.e. trail running).

