
How Old Is Old Enough? - carterschonwald
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/weekinreview/15ramp.html?_r=1&hp
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Locke1689
I think a problem this article doesn't touch on is the assumption that there
is a baseline that every person will reach at some point. For example, we say
that young people are less mature and should be limited in their privileges.
This may be true individually, but it doesn't really speak to the idea that
maybe someone who still has time to mature at 16 may be more mature than
someone at 30 will ever be.

I'm not quite sure what the proper resolution is here. Because it is too
difficult to measure each person individually it may be better to simply
guarantee a certain age where someone is an "adult."

I find it very difficult to defend the law that prevents drinking until 21 but
allows driving, which is subject to the same pressures and distractions as
drinking (with the added consequence that driving can cause harm to others as
well).

~~~
Confusion
and drinking doesn't? I think you need to visit an AA meeting and hear those
guys explain how much harm they did to others. One may argue the mental
scarring alcohol causes is worse than the physical damage cars do, especially
considering there are more alcoholics than crash victims.

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coderdude
I liked this article. It says what you're thinking, without saying "this is
what people think."

Example: "Maybe we accept that 19-year-olds are not yet fully responsible
adults for the purpose of driving a rental car, but hey, we still need someone
to drive our tanks in Afghanistan."

Edit: To clarify, I'm believe the above example shows that we see there is a
problem with what you can do at what age, rather than the surface meaning of
the example.

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DTrejo
As a teenager, it seems I am forever becoming a "man" or an "adult."

So far I've become a man/adult 6 times:

* when I turned 12 and could go to jail

* early teens

* when I turned 18

* when I voted

* when I graduated high school

* when I got lucky

I still have a few to go:

* Start driving

* Turn 21

* Leave college and enter the "real world"

Future Grand Total of Adulthood:

9

Am I 6/9 Adult or 600% Adult? I prefer 600%.

~~~
mey
You forgot when you turn 25, and insurance premiums go down, and you can more
easily rent cars.

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mmt
_Because young people develop different skills incrementally, rather than all
at once, Professor Steinberg says, it makes sense to dole out rights and
responsibilities incrementally_

This struck a chord with me, since I'm someone who tends to desire "bright
line" distinctions. Although I believe the example is specious[1], I found it
to be valid in principle if offensive in attitude.

The principle which validity I praise is that there may be biological reasons
for different aspects of maturation and that these may be several years apart
in any given individual. That we may be able to detect this objectively is
encouraging, as it may obviate the political answer to the OP's titular
question.

The suggestion, however, that rights are "doled" out is startling and
offensive. I do hope the "Nanny State" hasn't become axiomatic. I would expect
scientists to lean more toward a system based on a notion of natural rights,
rather tha on legal technicalities, but I admit a tendency to project.

I do believe that our legal civil rights are merely an approximation of our
natural rights. I also believe it's silly to make a knowningly inaccurate,
inflexible approximation.

I would propose a variable-age system, perhaps an extension of current
emancipated-minor procedures. The trick would be to test for maturity without
erecting a procedural barrier, all while involving self-determination.

If Steinberg is right, then there could be several different components to
majority, each with a different default age [2], or even the same default age,
if majority could be had just for the asking for something like suffrage.
Pairing rights with responsibilities might not be obvious, though only until
the maximum default age.

Politically, I find the current situation inexcusable. Deciding, after the
fact, that a child was an adult, for the purpose punishing a crime, is
irresponsible, at best, on the part of adults. What happened to holding
parents responsible? It seems to work for dogs and their owners.

[1] I don't believe there are laws against a 19 year old renting a car
(statutory references to the contrary are welcome). It is, rather, a private
company making an economic decision. "Driving" a tank has more involved
prerequisites (training, basic and specialized) and supervision. Back when I
was under 25 and traveled for business, I recall there were exceptions in the
"fine print" on minimum age for drivers renting on official company business,
a context closer to tank operation than a Spring Break rental.

[2] That this would still be a political approximation is less distressing,
since its goal would be to ensure an age that is a high enoug percentile of
maturation

~~~
camccann
_I would expect scientists to lean more toward a system based on a notion of
natural rights, rather tha on legal technicalities, but I admit a tendency to
project._

That's curious, I would expect _completely_ the opposite. Are "natural rights"
empirically observed? How would you attempt to test or falsify a natural
right? Does the concept of a natural right provide any predictive power? How
would the existence or non-existence of a natural right change the observed
nature of the universe?

The whole concept of "natural rights" sounds suspiciously like moral realism,
which is about as anti-scientific as you can get.

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diN0bot
interesting background. as a history article it starts to get good.

terrible "news" article, though. nothing interesting in the statements it
makes or the conclusions it draws:

> """Because young people develop different skills incrementally, rather than
> all at once, Professor Steinberg says, it makes sense to dole out rights and
> responsibilities incrementally. Maybe competent voting is different from
> competent driving, which is different from competent drinking.

> """"“Ask any parent you know,” Mr. Steinberg said, “they’ll tell you how
> confused they are that their kids are so smart in some ways, but still do
> such stupid, stupid things.”""""

