
Revolut raises $500M at a $5.5B valuation - vwvw
https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/24/revolut-raises-500-million-at-5-5-billion-valuation/
======
thesimon
Quite impressed with the valuation.

Transferwise Borderless seems to have a better business model with sane prices
and not "everything free".

And Revolut still uses their e-money license instead of their proper
Lithuanian banking license. Quite surprising.

~~~
Kkoala
Yep, Transferwise Borderless is quite great. They also offer things that
Revolut doesn't such as U.S. bank account, plus Revolut just feels bloated and
complex with hidden fees.

~~~
romasato
Not sure what hidden fees are you referring to? As far as I can tell, all the
fees are explained on their website and in the app.

~~~
Kkoala
On the website it just says things like "No fee ATM withdrawals up to €200 per
month", but what about after 200€??

I found a help section that is vague too saying "We can provide an estimate of
the potential fees...", so not very transparent. Transferwise you can
see/calculate on the frontpage what the fee will be.

~~~
ValentineC
> _On the website it just says things like "No fee ATM withdrawals up to €200
> per month", but what about after 200€??_

TransferWise debit card's landing page [1] doesn't have the ATM fee either.
Their pricing page [2] does.

I was able to find Revolut's pricing page [3], which includes the ATM fee,
with a simple search.

[1]
[https://transferwise.com/gb/borderless/card](https://transferwise.com/gb/borderless/card)

[2]
[https://transferwise.com/gb/borderless/pricing](https://transferwise.com/gb/borderless/pricing)

[3] [https://www.revolut.com/legal/fees](https://www.revolut.com/legal/fees)

~~~
Aeolun
2% of all withdrawals?! WTF is this insanity. I thought it might be
interesting for a bit, but never mind.

Are they preying on people that live in countries without a working banking
system?

~~~
jermaustin1
I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but here in the US almost
ever ATM that isn't at YOUR bank will charge a $2-$5 fee for withdrawal and
then the bank will hit you with another $2-$5 fee. So depending on your bank,
if you want $20, it could cost you $10.

OR (story time) if you are like me, and you end up needing cash in rural
Oklahoma to pay an upcoming cash-only toll, and you pull off at the ONLY gas
station between you and the toll, you could get hit with a $20 fee to pull out
$20 (because its a freaking casino).

That said, there are many online-only banks that are part of ATM groups that
have 100k free atms at various places all over. I use them.

And when traveling abroad, oddly enough the best cash card I've ever had is a
CapitalOne debit card. I only use it when traveling, but no FX fees, and no
ATM fees. So in the UK, most of the major banks and grocery chains have free
ATMs, so I get free access to my money even abroad.

~~~
ValentineC
> _I only use it when traveling, but no FX fees, and no ATM fees._

Do they reimburse your ATM fees if you were to use a third-party ATM in the
US, or just not charge you an additional fee to withdraw at third-party ATMs?

~~~
jermaustin1
I actually have never tested that theory out. I probably have $30 on it
currently (haven't gone out of country in a few months, so haven't needed to
fill it), I'll try to pull money out at the next ATM I come across and reply
here.

~~~
ValentineC
I just searched up the webpage [1], but there's nothing on it suggesting that
Capital One would reimburse your fee.

I'm not based in the US, but I've heard that Schwab and SoFi are the popular
ones that would do that.

[1] [https://www.capitalone.com/bank/debit-
card/](https://www.capitalone.com/bank/debit-card/)

------
sschueller
Revolut is predatory and walking on the line of legality. I would stay as far
away as I can from them.

    
    
      - Unfair/illegal employment practices. [1]
      - Dubios crypto service (you can buy and sell but there is no way to transfer in or out) [2]
      - Keeping a firewall between customers and company by only allowing communication via app chatbot [3]
      - Accusations of money laundry. [4]
      - Many people have had their accounts frozen or even money stolen. [5]
    
    

[1] [https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-
labour-...](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-
fintech-politics-storonsky)

[2] First hand experience

[3] First hand experience trying to deal with customer support

[4]
[https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47751945](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47751945)

[5] [https://old.reddit.com/r/Revolut/](https://old.reddit.com/r/Revolut/),
[https://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/Betrueger-stehlen-
Re...](https://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/Betrueger-stehlen-Revolut-
Kunde-30-000---26322505)

~~~
fauria
Can you provide links or any other kind of source for these statements?

Customers would be mostly concerned about the fifth one, probably: _Many
people have had their accounts frozen or even money stolen_.

~~~
randunel
Revolut also block the accounts of members of a certain political party
("PSD") in Romania, "blocking" (stealing) their money, but only if customers
admit to being a socialist party member. Here's a screenshot with the
questions [https://universul.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/revolut-
psd...](https://universul.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/revolut-psd-
teleorman-576x1024.jpg)

Transcripted from the Revolut app:

Have you ever held any of the following positions? Select all that apply

\- Member - Specialized Commission for Local Government, Legal, Defence,
Public Order, Rights and Freedoms of Citizens

\- Councilor - Teleorman County Council (as of July 2012)

\- Member - Partidului Social Democrat (PSD)

\- None of these apply

~~~
KptMarchewa
That's due to PEP regulations.

~~~
randunel
So members of the other 20-30 parties are not PEP? What about councillors of
other counties, would they not be PEP?

Specific organisations were targeted.

~~~
KptMarchewa
Maybe data of this guy was matched with data provided by some external
screening provider with the data of a politician? What's the point of asking
them if they were a member of some other party if they only expect him to be a
member of that specific one.

------
klausjensen
Revolut closed my business account with them and would not give me any reason
why (all documentation was OK, all my clients are lilly-white busineses).

It is not clear to me if they would not tell me because they're not allowed to
by law - or "just because".

Anyway - then the remaining balance on my account - they simply sent that back
to the last payment that had been made => They sent my remaining balance to
one of my clients!

Great API, great interface, great app, great prices - but I do not trust them
any more, obviously.

~~~
jotm
To be fair, big banks like HSBC and Barclays also do this. Plenty of horror
stories around. There needs to be a law so they could at least notify people a
month or two beforehand and provide a reason...

~~~
balola
I believe there is a law allowing them not to provide any reason.

~~~
mytailorisrich
Rather, there is no law that forces them to give a reason.

It's like any business relationship: One party may decide to terminate the
relation as long as they respect the contract. They don't have to provide a
reason (why would they?)

That said, usually contracts state a minimum notice period.

------
interfixus
I have kept a paid Revolut account for the last nearly two years, and it has
performed flawlessly. The one time when I needed support, reply was prompt,
polite, professional, and to the point. This is service I use for day-to-day
business. I never keep large sums there, so if the whole thing goes belly up
one day, it will cause a shrug and not much more. Topping up from my 'real'
bank - or wherever - is easy enough to do on the fly: I sometimes do so while
queueing in the supermarket. Features I like, and which are apparently beyond
the ability of my regular bank to offer: Virtual and diposible cards. I use
these for all web transanctions. No need to spread the details of my physical
card around, and I can temporarily lock any card number, should I feel the
need. Also, the physical card is discreet of appearance; just a grey piece of
plastic, not screaming my banking preference for the world to see. And a handy
ability to instantly create a payment link where anyone can pay me via credit
card. I happily pay my monthly fee. Service well worth it.

~~~
angry_octet
You may soon discover (depending on your jurisdiction) that topping up is no
longer an option, because your actual bank starts treating these transactions
as cash advances, 3%-4% fee (and trashing your credit rating too).

Revolut has been completely useless about this, and their chat teams are just
there to waste your time.

Multiple currencies and cheap exchange are great when you travel a lot, and
virtual credit cards and a nice spending UI are nice to haves. But nothing
makes up for being jerked around for hours because their system is broken and
they won't fix it.

Also, from an investment pov I think Apple Pay is going to crush them.

~~~
interfixus
>> _You may soon discover (depending on your jurisdiction) that topping up is
no longer an option, because your actual bank starts treating these
transactions as cash advances, 3%-4% fee (and trashing your credit rating
too)_

I may not. In fact, I have no idea what you mean by 'cash advance'. By HN
standards I am pennyless, but wouldn't ever dream of spending or withdrawing
money that I haven't got.

~~~
angry_octet
Calm down, I'm not saying you are poor. Banks have started treating top ups as
cash advances, even when your account has a positive balance. This has logical
sense because you can immediately withdraw that money as cash.

For some reason Revolut is unable or unwilling to support normal cash transfer
mechanisms.

~~~
interfixus
Okay, this is news to me. But then, my bank is not a US one. There is no money
in my account that I cannot immediately withdraw as cash. That is sort of the
whole point of my bank account, except of course it's mandatory if I wish to
receive wages for the job I perform...

Anyway, call me poor all you like. I actually am.

------
ro-_-b
There valuation is currently almost 1/3 of the Deutsche Bank market
capitalization. Just for your reference.. VC & tech are in a big bubble

~~~
qaq
Deutsche Bank Total assets €1.34 trillion Market Cap 19.91B

JPM Total assets US$2.687 trillion Market Cap 414.52B

There is a reason Deutsche Bank has such a low valuation

------
bkinnard
I'm also very sceptical of that 10 million customers line. Do you think its
just people that have opened an account with them at any point? I bet the DAU
(a reasonable metric for someones main bank, especially in today's cashless
society) is a very small percentage of that.

~~~
jermaustin1
I'm less skeptical that they have a high number of active users, but probably
not a high number of users that use this "bank" like a real bank.

I use another "neobank" called Simple in the US. It is not a primary account.
It is how I divvy up allowance to my wife and I for our weekly fun money
($70/person/week). Can be spent on anything we want, but once it's gone its
gone. I use mine for lunches, she packs a lunch and uses hers for shopping. We
both save a certain percentage of that to pay for vacations.

Our typical average monthly balance is in the low 3 figures. Like currently I
have $110 in savings and $45 in checking. I have no clue about how much my
wife has, and that is the beauty of it.

~~~
johnday
I'm with Monzo in the UK and use it similarly, Twice a month or so, £100 goes
in there to pay for things like dining out and the occasional grocery shop.
It's a nice way of separating the dailies from the monthlies. It means my Old
Fashioned Bank's statement is readable.

------
wtf1234
There is no web application, no API, no Linux client and the android client
works only with google app crap.

And, on top of that, the customer support is nonexistent.

~~~
imnotreallynew
Do you have an alternative to suggest with better support?

------
Yellowjellowjam
I've used revolut for the last to years and it seems to me that most people
here are misunderstanding the way the app is used. It is a prepaid credit card
- cash without cash, which lets you send cash to your friends, top up from
your actual bank account, change currency when you are visiting another
country. I wouldn't use it for big currency exchanges.

------
errrmaybenot
You have to watch the news to know what Revolut is up to and when to revisit
the privacy settings to turn off a new toggle - social media platform this
month, credit agencies the next

------
RomanPushkin
Revolut was funded with the money stolen from Russia. Father of the founder
was one of the top Gazprom managers.

------
chx
I find it absolutely astonishing people would pour half a billion into a
fintech company which puts real money transactions on the same platform as a
betting game and even worse, a betting game which claims it's some sort of
digital money. (bitcoin) I never used Revolut because of this and never will.
To be fair, I never used Revolut because I thought bitcoin is a scam but since
last November I know better.

[http://jpkoning.blogspot.com/2019/11/bitcoin-11-years-
in.htm...](http://jpkoning.blogspot.com/2019/11/bitcoin-11-years-in.html) and
also [https://www.aier.org/article/bitcoin-as-a-novel-financial-
ga...](https://www.aier.org/article/bitcoin-as-a-novel-financial-game/)

------
ascari
I refused to interview with them due to their poor employment practises. A
quick search reveals what's going on.

~~~
dx034
I found a TechCrunch article[1], is that what you're referring to? Hadn't
heard of these issues before (but also never tried to apply there).

[1] [https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-
labour-...](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-
fintech-politics-storonsky)

~~~
kasperni
\--------------

She did a 30-minute job interview over Google Hangouts with the London-based
head of business development, Andrius Biceika, and was immediately told she
had passed to the next round, which would involve a small test. “The surprise
came when I received the task and it asked me to get the company as many
clients as possible, with each one depositing €10 into the app,” says Laura.

The instructions on the exercise said the applicants should recruit at least
200 clients in a week to have a chance at passing to the next interview phase.

\--------------

Wow.....

~~~
namdnay
To play devils advocate, it was a business development position... so it’s a
bit like asking a developer to do a homework exercise no?

~~~
aeyes
No, this is working for free.

In a developer test you are given a generic problem.

------
gdsdfe
what's interesting about this is : judging from the comments they have a
horrible customer service, yet they seem to be in hyper growth mode

------
isusmelj
I heard a lot about N26 and Revolut here in Europe. Is there any US company
doing the same?

~~~
Hamuko
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neobank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neobank)
lists two US companies. Interestingly enough, it doesn't list Revolut, even
though I think it qualifies.

------
sdan
Fintech this week is on fire. First we have intuit and now this... wow.

------
cosmodisk
Revolut is where WeWork was a few years ago. Eventually a few guys will make
some nice money and the whole thing will go down the drain. VC money is nice,
however at some point you need to start making your own money and how they are
planning to do so is a question nobody has an answer to.

~~~
mantap
You could say the same about Transferwise. Revolut is setting themselves up as
a bank for millenials/gen Z. It is light years ahead of traditional banks in
terms of user experience. Banks are a proven way of making money.

~~~
ValentineC
> _It is light years ahead of traditional banks in terms of user experience._

Their app experience is mostly stellar, but I wouldn't say the same of their
support, and the fear that one's account would be locked because they hit some
undisclosed limit.

I haven't had to deal with TransferWise's support yet, but I've heard that
it's one of the "better" ones.

~~~
mantap
Any bank account can be locked at any time because an algorithm disagrees with
you, traditional or online. That's just the reality of banking, especially in
the post-HSBC scandal era. I wouldn't keep my savings in Revolut for sure, but
it's not really designed for that.

------
nrki
Please can we stop linking to articles with Cookie-walls.

[https://outline.com/9cuRRS](https://outline.com/9cuRRS)

~~~
BaitBlock
Try [https://baitblock.app](https://baitblock.app)

It can remove cookie walls on many websites automatically

~~~
koolba
With NoScript they never show up in the first place.

------
appleshore
On the name, I doubt it would be successful in the US. The “lution” part of
revolution makes the word sound better. Without it, it invokes “revolting”.
Incidentally, Revolution Money in the US became American Express Serve.

Also the no human support, chat bot only thing is frightening on various
levels. It’s great until something actually goes wrong or the system deems you
unfavorable.

~~~
whylo
I've had various issues with Revolut, but there is human support available
(eventually) - if you type 'human' in the bot chat you get connected to an
agent.

The fact that it's the only support channel available - no phone - is
frustrating, and it's even worse that it's in-app only. It gets tiring trying
to type up your problem on a phone keyboard, especially when it takes multiple
chats to get resolved.

~~~
terrycody
And it seems does not support US customers, only support in EU.

