
Alberta government gives green light to Calgary-Edmonton Hyperloop project - markrankin
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-alberta-government-gives-green-light-to-hyperloop-project/
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perardi
Let’s look at the actual text of the article.

 _“Toronto-based startup TransPod has signed a memorandum of understanding
with the government to study the potential of a high-speed hyperloop system
and help it attract investors.”_

And let’s translate that from polite Canadian PR speak: this will never, ever,
ever happen, but it sounds nice, so we’ll put it out there.

~~~
perardi
And before you say “you’re just a cynic, you have to believe in the power of
disruption”, I want you to study the vast cost overruns and cost-disease of
every public transit project of note in Canada in recent memory, and then tell
me how magic startup fairy dust will cut through sclerotic governments both
municipal, provincial, and federal.

We barely made Presto cards work.

~~~
moltar
It took Ottawa 20 years to roll out first stage of light rail.

~~~
perardi
And of course, the Relief Line in Toronto.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_Line_(Toronto)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_Line_\(Toronto\))

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Mister_Snuggles
I live in Alberta. There is no way this will be economically viable in the
short term.

Here's what this is competing with:

Driving from Edmonton to Calgary, downtown to downtown, takes about 3 hours.
My car can do a round trip on a single tank of gas with enough left over to do
a little running around. The cost is about $60 in fuel, an unknown amount of
wear-and-tear on the car, and three hours of time. I've done this trip with
four people, so that works out $25/person assuming $40 worth of wear-and-tear
on the car. The depreciation and insurance costs are not a factor here since
those happen regardless.

If you don't own a car, but have a driver's license, you can pick up a
Communauto (our version of ZipCar/Car2Go/etc) and drive it down there. This
would probably cost less than $100, and Communauto includes fuel, insurance,
and maintenance, but the cars in their fleet aren't necessarily ones that I'd
choose for a road trip.

The flight from Edmonton to Calgary takes about 45 minutes from takeoff to
landing. You need to arrive at the airport 1.5-2 hours before takeoff. Plus
you need to get to the airport at the start of your trip and to your
destination at the end. The cost is between $100 and $300 depending on how far
you plan ahead, plus three hours of time.

There is currently no passenger rail service between Edmonton and Calgary.

There is bus service between the two cities. Red Arrow runs between Edmonton
and Calgary and isn't too bad. You still have to get to the bus terminal at
the start and your destination at the end, but the terminals may be in walking
distance if you're going downtown to downtown. The cost is $172 plus three
hours of time.

To work, this needs to find the sweet spot of taking less time than driving,
being less of an annoyance than air travel, and priced right to make up for
its own set of shortcomings. $25 per person plus three hours is a really tough
price to beat.

~~~
jariel
Most people drive alone, not in groups. With traffic it's more than 3 hours.
That doesn't count insurance, cost of car, wear and tear. 3 hours is ugly,
though 4-5 would be a sweeter spot.

If the tube works downtown to downtown in 45 minutes, people will pay $80 a
ticket no problem.

Honestly the bigger problem is that Edmonton/Calgary 'downtown' is still
'nowhere' ... you need a _car_ when you get there, it ain't Paris or Munich.

What Calgary/Edmonton needs is a fast train that connects to other, more local
fast trains and commuters and light rail.

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GaryNumanVevo
The Saudi funded Hyperloop project should be a good litmus test for Hyperloops
around the world. It's ideal: across flat land, no mountains / tunnels, lots
of money behind it.

Not sure how far along they are in construction though.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49096675](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49096675)

~~~
bearcobra
I don't think this project will happen, but it has some similar
characteristics. Two cities with metro populations over 1 million that are
separated by approximately 300kms of flat, sparsely populated land seems like
a perfect test case.

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sbierwagen
Note that TransPod is the maglev vactrain variant of hyperloop, distinct from
the air bearing system in the original hyperloop white paper. This avoids new
technology, and lets you use existing COTS maglev track, but... would be
_more_ expensive per mile than air bearings. Curious choice for a train in
Alberta.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransPod](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransPod)

As other commentors have noted, this is a pre-pre-pre announcement. They're
not even talking about breaking ground for another 5 years.

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osipovas
As an Albertan living in Edmonton and as per the feasibility study mentioned
in the article, I don't think this is happening. That said, if by some miracle
it does happen, that would be awesome!

~~~
cmorgan8506
Also Albertan. Maybe it's unrealistic but I agree it would be pretty awesome
to see in my lifetime. Would also be cool to see Alberta get on the map for
something other than oil.

~~~
dblohm7
Yet another Albertan. I would expect the AB government to not directly fund
something like this. P3? Privately owned and operated?

Still unlikely.

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beloch
The new development appears to be that the province is allowing the test track
to be built on crown land in a place where it could become a part of the full
line, if actually built. Previously, the test track would need to be removed
even if the line went ahead.

While it's still unlikely a full hyperloop line will be built, this agreement
does goose the odds upwards slightly at little public cost, provided
precautions are put in place to ensure the company building the test line does
actually pay for its removal if the full line is not built.

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maerF0x0
Typical drivers can do the trip in ~2.5hrs. Mind you that is door to door w/
your actual destination.

Depending on regulations (similar to preflight security), this could be a 1
hour trip. If you need to also take a taxi to and from the hyperloop, you're
not looking at much time savings. IMO the real value of these options is that
you can do something else in the mean time. You can read, you can make calls,
you can sleep.

Also: Obligatory monorail comment for hyper loop:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM)

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, downvoting isn't for disagreement, it's
for etiquette violations, etc.

I agree this is not the most sensible locale to test this. There used to be
frequent VIA rail service between the two cities (I remember taking it as a
kid, at least as far as Innisfail to visit my grandpa) and I believe that's
gone, due to lack of demand.

The cities are close enough that driving isn't terrible.

Now, it does have rather flat and easy to deal with topography, so there's
that.

Toronto to Montreal / Ottawa, that's a route where high speed rail is
desperately needed. Even more so if it was extended to come from Detroit
and/or Buffalo.

If we're sticking with Alberta, maybe Edmonton to Fort McMurray, to get oil
workers to/from the north. That's a crappy drive, and long.

~~~
goodcanadian
Well, it's factually incorrect. You can't go door to door from Edmonton to
Calgary in 2.5 hours unless, perhaps, you are going from the outer edge of one
city to the outer edge of the other, and only then, by exceeding the speed
limit (which I grant is pretty standard on that highway).

~~~
maerF0x0
Google maps says 300km / 3hrs center to center. I know many people do ~130 on
that highway --> 2:20 ...

~~~
goodcanadian
The speed limit drops drastically once you get into Edmonton, and congestion
increases, and there are traffic lights, and so on. You can't maintain 130
km/h into the centre. You are making a pretty unrealistic calculation. And
just because many people drive that fast, doesn't mean a "typical" driver
does.

Other comments say 3 hours and 3-4 hours which is much more in line with my
experience. Of course, it depends heavily on where you start, where you
finish, time of day, and so on.

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bluGill
The artist drawing doesn't seem to have enough support for the span between
pillars. It looks nice but not realistic

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loceng
This isn't Elon's Hyperloop for those wondering. The term Hyperloop's been
misappropriated and applied to different technology to piggyback on the hype
Elon caused.

~~~
Alupis
No, that's wrong. "Hyperloop" was never going to work, so Musk spun it off
into this "competition" that still has people trying to figure out some way to
make something that even resembles his original mutterings. Today, this almost
always manifests itself as a maglev train in a tube.

This way, Musk saves face by not failing publically.

If the idea fails, he can just say "It was in your hands, I left the idea with
you!"

Pretty clever exploit...

~~~
loceng
Quite the mental gymnastics you've done to put down an idea, while presenting
no evidence as to why it won't work.

Go to boringcompany.com to see what they're currently up to + they've had
competition for university teams to develop the skate that you're vehicle
would be accelerated by in the Hyperloop.

Elon has the engineering team, along with himself, from SpaceX to reference
and understand the physics of the tunnel transportation systems they are
developing.

~~~
legolas2412
boring company is not building hyperloop. The urban loop or the boring company
loops are just small tunnels. Nor is spacex building anything, but a small
tunnel to do pod design competitions.

Many things are wrong with the hyperloop or loop proposals. The first is that
they are unproven and wildly off cost estimate. Elon musk waived off hyperloop
costs by declaring that they can be built along pylons on existing highways.
But that's absurd, as existing highways are built to the standard of 70-80
mph, and for the proposed speeds of 400-500 mph, the curvatures of the road,
and the twists and the turns are completely different. Hence, land acquisition
costs do not go away. The same thing applies to boring company's loop. If you
are going to zip at 150mph, the curvatures are steep, and any common tunnel
will slow it down.

I watched a few videos doing a more thorough analysis. If you're interested,
I'll try to find and share them.

~~~
loceng
They're doing tunnels, not pylons to avoid those frictions.

The Boring Company is moving forward at a good pace, including still doing
competitions for last 4 years at universities for teams to create the best
skate that will be used to accelerate vehicles in the Hyperloop.

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1235711
Ah yes Alberta where even roads don't work thanks to freeze thaw cycles. What
a perfect start.

~~~
maerF0x0
I recall better roads in Alberta than San Francisco + hwy 101 in bay area.

~~~
samatman
The thing about pavement in the Bay Area: it breaks all at once.

I remember this striking me suddenly, shortly after I moved out from the
Midwest. I was sitting on a patio, idly tracing the cracks with my eyes, when
a question sort of bubbled up: where did they come from? The ground never
freezes.

Then it hit me: in this case, they came from 1989.

