
Brexit is already damaging European science - okket
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06826-y
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petercooper
Brexit has already damaged a _lot_ of things as well as waste over 2 years of
politicans' time, distracting them from working on things the UK needs
handling. Leave voters have a lot of dirt on their hands.

~~~
sammydel
Shame on them for choosing the wrong option. We should just stop having
elections.

~~~
sveme
A yes/no referendum without detailing the actual approach to withdrawal is
definitely not an election either.

~~~
debacle
The Friday in me wants to reply with "You need to vote on the bill, to know
what's in it."

But the actual approach to withdrawal was always going to be incredibly
complex. There are obvious, valid reasons for staying in the EU and obvious,
valid reasons for leaving the EU. Almost any headline coming from Europe is
going to be anti-Brexit; almost every headline about the issue is going to be
highly biased.

The pro-Brexit arguments assume that the UK was getting less than it was
giving to the EU - sacrificing money, border sovereignty, financial
sovereignty for economic incentives that the UK is likely able to negotiate
for anyway. The anti-Brexit arguments coming from outside of the UK are mostly
impassioned moral attacks insulting anti-globalists, or fearmongering.

The EU has been on a slow decline, and the Brexit may hasten that decline,
along with renewed trade pressure from the US and China. Britain holds more
cards than every other EU nation besides Germany. It doesn't make sense for
them to lend their weight to non-contributing economies.

~~~
CaptainZapp
_border sovereignty_

But here's the rub. The UK never gave that up.

England (and by default Ireland) are not in the Schengen accord[1].

You cannot get into the UK from Europe without passing border control and
showing your passport (Id for some countries).

Even if you stretch that argument (our borders are porous and any EU citizen
can move the UK to work) that argument still doesn't wash.

You have to be documented and all.

The UK never gave up control of their borders.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area)

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
That's a good point. In fact, you can't cross borders in the Schengen area as
an EU citizen unless you show some proof that you are, indeed, an EU citizen -
for example, a passport.

Although other documentation, like national ID cards will do, they can cause
trouble. I don't know if it's official policy or what, but I travel by land
and sea around the EU very often and I've had problems with over-zealous
border officials many a time.

For instance, I've been delayed twice at the French border from and to the UK
by _French_ officials, who pretended they couldn't determine whether my Greek
national ID card is valid (allegedly, because it doesn't have an expiration
date; Greek ID cards currently don't) and kept repeating that "if you had a
passport, things would have been so much easier, now we have to call a
specialist to examine this document" wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

[The funny thing is, I was travelling with my cousin's ID card by mistake, but
they didn't realise because we look very much like each other- "specialist"
guy, my arse]

So while officially you can travel without a passport in the Schengen area, in
practice, you better have some ID.

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joncrocks
I've driven across many EU borders without stopping, let alone having to show
any ID.

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YeGoblynQueenne
Well, I don't drive, I travel by train and ferry boat, so I don't know what
happens if you're driving.

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supernova87a
Let's face it though. British science was already headed in a downward spiral
before Brexit. Decreasing student positions, postdoc positions, selling off
shares in research partnerships and observatories, and more. EU consortia were
already planning for the UK to be an unreliable partner.

Plus, anyone who was capable of applying for research jobs on an international
level found the salaries quite pathetic.

This whole progression was sadly, not unexpected.

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fuscy
I guess about 51% of the population didn't see this coming or they didn't
care. I remember the propaganda going on around that time... The best scene
was a politician rebutting a scientist because "what does an expert know about
anything" especially economics.

I tend to agree with Aristides or Socrates (rip by vote) that people are
idiots and democracy can't work without education.. atleast about the issue
that is being voted.

