
Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number - steveklabnik
https://www.balancedpayments.com/push-to-card
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baxter001
The sensitivity of the traditional bank account and sort number combination is
totally backwards, at least in the uk, the only things you can do with a sort
code and account number is pay in funds (or set up a direct debit but that's
why the direct debit guarantee requirement exists). I'd feel uncomfortable
extending my data exposure with my card number when I just want to receive
funds.

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pstrateman
The direct debit system is nearly identical to the US ACH system.

Any funds pulled out of your account can be returned by a trip to the bank and
signing an affidavit.

The only difference is the inconvenience of having to physically go into the
bank to reverse the payment.

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dublinben
That might be pretty difficult for members of online banks with one or no
physical bank locations. I can dispute a credit card charge by email, phone,
or even the web.

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steveklabnik
It's because ACH's version of chargebacks require that you sign an affidavit
as part of the process.

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manishsharan
Too bad that neither Balanced nor Stripe support sending money to
people/companies that are not based in U.S. I guess I will have to wade
through the Paypal Api !

~~~
steveklabnik
We are actively working on that, too:
[https://www.balancedpayments.com/international-
payments](https://www.balancedpayments.com/international-payments)

~~~
pytrin
It's the only thing we're waiting on to switch to Balanced. We talked to you
guys before about that (my co-founder, Adam, from Binpress) and it seemed to
be progressing but then it stalled. Looking forward to May 22

~~~
steveklabnik
Awesome. :) Please note that that date is an 'expected launch.' Things are
progressing nicely, but that's not a hard date. But soon!

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RexM
I think I'm most interested in balanced using crowd funding to raise money for
implementing new features. Raising $50k to create a product that allows them
to charge $1/use. Are there any posts from balanced about this method of
getting things done?

I found these two articles:
[http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/01/30651-balanced-
uses-...](http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/01/30651-balanced-uses-
crowdfunding-float-new-product-feature/)
[http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/balanced-crowdfunding-
produ...](http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/balanced-crowdfunding-product-
development/)

~~~
steveklabnik
It was on our blog: [http://blog.balancedpayments.com/push-to-
cards/](http://blog.balancedpayments.com/push-to-cards/)

This is the first time we've done this, so we haven't written a lot about it
yet because the feature hasn't actually shipped.

I will also say that the money was more in the theory of lean than actually
paying for the development of the feature. We wanted to gain feedback and see
if our customers would actually use this feature.

~~~
RexM
Thanks. I hope you guys blog more about it. It def. shows how interested
people are in the feature and makes people pony up, to prove it.

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getsaf
I'm guessing they are using Visa's lesser known Money Transfer features. This
stuff has been around for a little while. The company I work for recently
started supporting this for insurance company payouts to customers.

[https://usa.visamoneytransfer.com/Visa/Web/Help/FAQ](https://usa.visamoneytransfer.com/Visa/Web/Help/FAQ)

BTW, you can chargeback stuff on your debit card just like you can with your
credit card. Both are save and typically 100% covered by the credit card
company that issued the card.

I'm still amazed that people don't understand how disposable credit card
numbers are. The worst thing thing you really risk when giving out your credit
card is the hassle of changing any auto-payments you had attached to that card
in the off-chance that your card is compromised. Debit cards are a little
different in that your funds may be held for a couple of weeks under certain
circumstances so that could suck but that's not often the case. /rant

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steveklabnik
I struggled with coming up with a title. This is way better, dang, thank you.

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petercooper
Don't worry, it seems Balanced did as well ;-)

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ginko
Maybe it's because I'm from Europe, but I don't see what's so special about
that.

Isn't the debit card number just the bank account number?

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mrjatx
NOoooooo not even remotely. That would be terrible.

The debit card number is a layer of abstraction that allows you to HIDE your
bank account number from retailers. If you give someone your bank account
number they can do whatever they want until you shut down that BANK account.

Someone steals your debit card or the number it's super simple to get that
changed and replaced. Someone steals your bank account number it's a
nightmare.

~~~
tass
I'm very confused about this.

Does that mean you should NEVER pay anyone by cheque since it has your account
number printed on it?

Why is the USA one of the only first-world countries that have such prevalent
usage of cheques, but it's seen as so dangerous to disclose a bank account
number?

What can someone do with just a bank account number, and why isn't that
problem being fixed?

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jareau
> Why is the USA one of the only first-world countries that have such
> prevalent usage of cheques

I'm actually thinking about writing a blog post explaining my theory behind
why this is the case. Would that be interesting?

tl;dr of my theory: geographic size and decentralized gov't in the US allowed
a paper cheque system to outlive other countries'

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beedogs
Also probably the reason slavery lasted so much longer past the end of the
civil war in parts of the South. Interesting parallel I guess, as paper checks
seem just about as antebellum to me now.

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mwnz
In the Netherlands the bank account number is printed on the card. Would that
solution not solve the problem being addressed here?

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smallegan
Can I use this to pay my employees and contractors instead of using a ACH
direct deposit service?

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jareau
yep!

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toomuchtodo
Well done guys! Question though, if a debit can settle out of my checking
account through my debit card (ie my Simple account) in minutes at a
traditional merchant (gas station), why do you credits take 1-2 days to
settle?

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mtamizi
(ceo of Balanced)

Under promise. Over deliver. That's the best way to answer that. :-)

We have partnerships and direct ATM network integrations to clear in real-time
for ~55% of debit cards. I didn't want to promise that until we've done enough
volume to see that clearing time for ourselves instead of basing it what our
partners have communicated to us. Once I have enough data/proof, I'll update
the language to reflect the faster speed.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Totally fair! Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

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tn
This is similar to Square Cash, no?

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mtamizi
Balanced is offering a white-labeled API. Square Cash is a branded consumer
product.

The mechanism of paying people using their debit cards is the same.

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vinhboy
Any chance you can make it so I can send the balance of a debit card to
another debit card, or bank account for $1?

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mtamizi
What is the use case?

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vinhboy
If a customer wants to pay with a debit card, I want to avoid paying the
credit card percentage fees.

Sort of like how gas stations have a higher price for credit card payments
versus debit card payments.

It seems to me like you guys already have a system to map debit card numbers
to bank accounts, so this should technically be possible as an ACH transfer.
No?

~~~
mtamizi
> It seems to me like you guys already have a system to map debit card numbers
> to bank accounts, so this should technically be possible as an ACH transfer.
> No?

That's not the way we're doing it. I've tried to find such a system, but
AFAIK, it's not possible.

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crdunwel
$1 fee per transaction. Done entirely by computers. In huge volumes.

There is no reason that entirely electronic transactions should cost more than
fractions of a penny to process. Any justification for this cost is complete
bullshit.

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matthewarkin
Welcome to the banking system. If they're going threw the debit card channels,
through Visa, they might charge a fee, Balanced's bank may charge a fee,
Balanced has to pay its employees, pay for hosting its servers, make sure they
are PCI compliant, etc.

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crdunwel
Sounds like a lot of bloat and over exaggeration on the part of banks and
credit card companies for how much all these things cost. They're still making
a killing...

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jareau
fraud is often priced into these systems since most payments instruments in
the US aren't push-only. Sorry if it sounds like I'm justifying...

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moolah_
Another reason for me to love Balanced, other than the fact they're the only
processor who wanted to work with us - will be making good use of this feature
for our storefronts platform!

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the_watcher
Is there any way to use this as a consumer replacement to things like
PayPal/Venmo? It can be really frustrating to have to wait a few days for
payments to clear.

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wierdaaron
Square Cash does this exact thing. Uses an app or via email, deposits via
debit card number, and has no fees. No idea how it works, but it's how most of
my friends send me money. [https://square.com/cash](https://square.com/cash)

~~~
AjithAntony
Yeah, for square the user can use debit card info or routing/account info. It
appears that square has designed the onboarding UI to strongly favor debit
cards, but there is a little link in there to account instead.

The really curious thing, however, is that no matter which one you choose, the
transactions appear to be debit.

I'm pretty sure I signed up with an account number, but all the transactions
in and out of my account are debit transactions.

FWIW, chase online clearly report either "ACH {Credit,Debit}" or "Debit Card
Transaction"

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jusben1369
Great to see you guys continuing to add new ways to move money.

