
How to Retire On $500 Per Month - mhb
http://jetsetcitizen.com/cheap-travel/can-you-retire-on-500-per-month/
======
grandalf
A better title would be "How to leverage your income far more effectively".

How much money do most of us flush on rent, cars, overpriced houses, and other
things. If you add it up over 10-15 years the opportunity cost of living in
the US is over $1M for most people.

All that so that we can eat a horrible western diet, watch cable news, and
work for prestigious firms in hopes of retiring at 70.

~~~
nostrademons
> If you add it up over 10-15 years the opportunity cost of living in the US
> is over $1M for most people.

And you get the opportunity of living in the U.S. I certainly think this is
worth >$1M over a lifetime.

I _like_ living in the U.S. I like having a car, and the associated freedom to
take a day trip anywhere in the Bay Area. I like living in a suburban
neighborhood where's there's trees and greenery, and yet stores, restaurants,
and other conveniences are all nearby. I like being able to work on exactly
the same stuff I do for fun and yet get paid for it. I like that I'm
surrounded by some of the best & brightest immigrants from around the world in
my job. I like my "horrible western diet", which basically consists of being
able to eat whatever variety of food I feel like. I can have Mexican for
lunch, fresh fish for dinner, Belgian waffles for breakfast the next day,
Indian food for lunch, and Chinese for dinner. Is there any other country
where you'll get similar variety?

Whenever I've visited other countries (notably China, but also
Germany/Austria/New Zealand), I've always felt that they were nice places to
travel, but I certainly would not want to _live_ there. Well, except New
Zealand. I could imagine retiring there, but I'd hate to waste my 20s and 30s
there.

Happiness is knowing what you want, going for it, and having the courage to
say "Nope, I don't think so" when people tell you you ought to want something
else.

~~~
fuzzbang
You know, you can have a car in other countries as well. In Jakarta you can
have a car and driver for less than the cost of a car in the US.

Personally, I think everyone should live in a different country for at least
one (1) year. You'll gain a lot of perspective on your own country in the
process. Just like learning another language teaches you more about your
native tongue, so living in another country teach you about your own culture.
Combine the two (new language, new country) for a serious eye opening.

For example, the Thai language has no words for "yes" or "no". There are no
yes/no questions in Thai.

Only after being removed from pervasive US media do you recognize how much
hollywood movie content is US centric and self-referential.

Honestly, if you love living in the US, go live somewhere else in the world
for one year. You'll either love the US more, or you'll decide that you enjoy
living somewhere else more than you anticipated. Either way, you'll have
gained invaluable life experience.

~~~
gjm11
<http://www.into-asia.com/thai_language/phrases/basics.php> lists Thai words
for "yes" and "no", and describes other ways of saying yes or no to a
question.

<http://www.thaifocus.com/phrases.htm> also lists Thai words for "yes" and
"no", and inter alia mentions a couple of yes/no questions in Thai.

[http://www.peacecorp.gov/wws/multimedia/language/transcripts...](http://www.peacecorp.gov/wws/multimedia/language/transcripts/TH_Thai_Language_Lessons.pdf)
seems to indicate that Thai even has a special word whose presence in a
sentence indicates a yes/no question.

[http://thailanguagehut.com/blog/blog/thai-question-words-
so-...](http://thailanguagehut.com/blog/blog/thai-question-words-so-
confusing/) has many, many examples of yes/no questions in Thai, and shows how
to answer them.

What is the basis for your claim that "there are no yes/no questions in Thai"?

(It does seem that binary questions aren't treated the same way in Thai as
they are in English -- the conventions for how you say yes and no are
different in different cases -- but it doesn't look at all as if there are "no
yes/no questions". For that matter, even in English there are some binary
questions to which "yes" and "no" would be peculiar answers. For instance,
questions that implicitly make an offer ("Would you like one of these?")
usually have to be answered more politely.)

~~~
fuzzbang
Actually, I speak fluent Thai, there is no word for Yes or No. There is ไม่
which is a negation word, and ใช่ which basically means "correct"/"right", not
"yes". The Thai question format is generally: Q: Hungry? หิวไหม A: Not hungry.
ไม่หิว A: Hungry. หิว

There are other question indicator words, but the one you're referring to is
for "correct or not" type questions, e.g.

Q: This road, right? สอยนี้ใช่ไหม A: Right. ใช่ A: Not right. ไม่ใช่

Alternatively, for a lot of statements you can just respond with the polite
ending words, ครับ for men and ค่ะ for women.

The question, "would you like one of these?" in Thai would be, "เอาไหม่"...
literally, "want?". The correct response is then either: ไม่เอาครับ or,
เอาครับ ... that is the polite form for "do not want", or "want". There is no
other way to respond to that question (except without the polite ending).

~~~
gjm11
Those things you describe are all yes/no questions, so it is not true that
there are no yes/no questions in Thai. And what you've described are ways to
give (for particular classes of question) answers that mean just the same as
"yes" or "no" would for the corresponding questions in English.

It's interesting that English has a category (call it "standard binary
questions, answerable with yes or no") that doesn't correspond exactly to
anything in Thai. But from what you've said it seems entirely wrong to
describe that situation by saying that Thai has no yes/no questions.

------
jrnkntl
I am living in Bangkok right now at €500 (euro, ok) a month and before I
clicked this I was wondering if it would mention Asia. You won't believe how
many 'old western people' actually live here in Thailand (mostly the coast
areas) or Indonesia for that matter.

~~~
kqr2
What do you do for healthcare? Do you have insurance or pay out of pocket?

~~~
thomaspaine
Health care is ridiculously cheap in Thailand compared to the US. A hospital
visit a little outside of Bangkok cost me about 1500 baht ($40), including
medication. It was a simple out-patient procedure, but I'm sure it would have
been several hundred dollars if I had to pay out of pocket for the same
procedure in the US.

Also, prescription medications are fairly cheap and you generally don't need a
prescription. I got my allergy medication for $20, which is normally about $60
here if you don't have insurance.

~~~
stcredzero
The above shows how we are being suckered in the US. The requirement of good
healthcare in our old age is held over us like a looming axe. The fact that it
is so expensive is a subtle form of debt slavery. Personal wealth is basically
required of us just to feel safe from dying in squalor.

I have also seen, firsthand, the spectre of death by infection being used as a
kind of fortuitous (for healthcare companies) euthanasia (read: cost-cutting
method) on infirm and elderly ethnic minorities. My girlfriend's father was
pushed into hospice care, even though he was not ready to give up. (He'd been
metastatic for 11 years.) The hospice nurses had sloppy anti-infection
practices. (My girlfriend's an epidemiologist, so she knows what these are
professionally.) There was a week's delay from the first symptoms of infection
to getting a prescription for antibiotics filled, and by the time the script
was filled, he was barely able to stay conscious to take one dose of the
pills. Then there was a refusal to give him intravenous antibiotics, because
it was against their procedures, so would need a doctor's permission. By that
time, it was Friday evening, and the nurse told us we would've had to wait
until Monday to get that permission. In the several days it takes us to figure
all this out, the nurse is telling us, "He's actively dying," as if it was the
cancer!

The whole thing feels like the time I found a cat with sepsis in its head,
took it to the vet, then let them talk me into having them euthanize it. It
knew something was up. Started yowling when we made the decision. The
saccharine talk from the caregivers was the same -- purporting to be in the
patient's best interest when it was really about money.

Then, there's the matter of my grandma, who was an Alzheimer's patient at the
end of her life. She also died of an infection. As a youth, she was a waif, a
socialite beauty of pre WWII Seoul, and even in her 70s, she was still
waifish. She died fat, overfed by redneck nursing home nurses who didn't
bother to prevent her bedsores. At first, my family tried to care for her in
the home, but she needed to be supervised all the time. She kept on putting
water on to boil, then wandering off. My dad's a doctor, a local healthcare
insider, and for awhile she got better care because of his attention. He'd
visit her every day and make corrections to her care constantly. But you can't
keep that up. A week of inattention, and he gets a call that she's dying of an
infection with the suggestion that, "it's just better to let her go." I only
find out about this years later, when I am desperately calling my dad for
advice about my girlfriend's dad and his infection.

I grew up in a small town, and my parents once mentioned there were people
muttering about my grandmother getting benefits, because she was a foreigner,
despite the fact that my dad was living locally and paying taxes in a high
bracket for over 30 years.

More anecdotes, but not infection related:

Another friend of mine, born in England, just over 60, a vigorous woman who
volunteered with a local fire department and ran an arts organization full
time -- she had to pony up over $10,000 to get attention for a treatable
ailment that was going to leave her blind. Apparently it wasn't covered. She'd
just gotten her US citizenship two years ago, a day we celebrated, but the
whole experience with US healthcare upset her, and for awhile she was talking
about leaving and moving back to England.

Yet another friend of mine, a young woman of 25, fell from an atrium balcony.
She came from a poor family, but she was basically a saint minus 3 miracles.
Her family kept her on a respirator for a week, then let the doctors talk them
into pulling the plug. Her loss still haunts me. The whole church was _full_
of people from all walks of life she'd touched. The diversity of people she
knew was amazing, and no one was there out of mere politeness. There were also
6 monks there who she sometimes worked with, also in tears. I thought the
priest was going to deliver a dry, canned eulogy, but he even got choked up. I
suspect if the US didn't have crappy healthcare, that wonderful woman would be
in a wheelchair but still with us.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
telcos and healthcare are two heavily regulated industries with artificially
high barriers to entry in the US. thus the providers jack costs WAY up because
they can. We're too dumb to put up a fuss. the average person's response? we
need _more_ regulation. yeah, make it impossible for startups to compete in
the industry, that'll drive prices down.

~~~
stcredzero
How do we encourage healthcare startups?

At one point in time, the HMO pioneer Group Health was a startup of a sort.

One _never_ hears about someone going bankrupt from paying for medical care in
Japan. They have a _lot_ of regulations on what you can charge for health
care.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
by allowing people to make whatever contracts they want with their doctors
instead of state mandated contracts.

~~~
sokoloff
Do you feel like either of these are true:

1\. You are currently barred by the state from doing this.

2\. Your negotiating power as an individual is greater than that of the
private insurance companies who are already doing this?

You can complain all you like about the cost of healthcare, but I think it's
economics not legislation that is preventing you from getting a better rate.

~~~
yummyfajitas
Concerning 1), many useful practices which would lower cost are barred by the
state.

Some states (e.g. NY) ban catastrophic-only health insurance.

All states ban me from self-medicating (which is actually not very hard to do
for simple illnesses). I'm also barred from buying lab tests without first
paying a doctor for permission.

Women are required to pay a doctor for permission to buy birth control.

I'm banned from visiting someone with less training than a doctor to receive
treatment for simple ailments.

Of course, I'll be the first to admit that Baumol's cost disease plays an
important role too, as well as higher costs for newer treatments.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
I forgot entirely about self medication for simple ailments. I had to get
penicillin on the down low when I contracted scarlet fever.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The easy problems in medicine are vastly easier than programming. You don't
need a doctor to solve them for you, all you need is his permission to
implement the well known solution.

If you have an Iranian girlfriend, all you need is for her to smuggle you
bootleg medicine when she visits her family. That's what I did.

(Yes, Iran has more medical freedom than the us.)

------
theoneill
I would be more convinced by someone writing about how they'd done this than
how they planned to.

~~~
gexla
I do it. My base expenses are less than $500 / month in the Philippines.

10,000 furnished apartment. ~5,000 food ~2,500 visa ~1,300 internet ~1,200
electricity

Total: 20,000 / 47.5 = $421

I'm probably forgetting some things. There are misc expenses which would bring
me up to the $500.

That's not to say I actually live here for that though. Those are my actual
expenses and I can get by with just those but I choose to have a little more
fun. Beer is really cheap here but it adds up if you go out a lot. A 1/4 lb
McD's meal is 135 pesos, so your expenses go up if you eat out a lot.

You can nearly cut that rent fee in half if you go for an unfurnished
apartment but you have to pay more initially to put in your own furnishing.

You won't be traveling on a budget that low but you have to leave the country
once every 16 months (I think) for a visa run if you are on a tourist visa.

Another big one is taxes. So if you are running your own business then you
have to make $500 / month after taxes.

I would say that $750 is a pretty decent figure for a single person not living
high on the hog. As the article mentions, for $4,000 / month you can live like
a king.

Anything I'm forgetting?

ETA: This is for Dumaguete in the Philippines. Cebu is more expensive and
Manila is more expensive than Cebu.

ETA2: I didn't add local travel expenses because if you stay in Dumaguete for
a decent amount of time you might as well buy a motorcycle for around PHP
40,000. Gas is cheap because you don't use much. Dumaguete has banned taxis so
your only option is a trike which typically costs a total of PHP 60 to go
downtown and back.

~~~
asmosoinio
/You won't be traveling on a budget that low but you have to leave the country
once every 16 months (I think) for a visa run if you are on a tourist visa./

I have a different experience: I am from Finland. Tourist visa when entering
the Philippines is valid for only 3 weeks, after which it can be extended for
1 month, and after that for 2 months. The 2 month extension costs 4700 PHP.

Might be different for other nationalities but Finns usually get quite good
deals on visas.

~~~
gexla
Same with U.S. residents. But the cost of the visa seems to be different every
time I get one. I just budget around $40 - $50 / month for it. You can extend
for 16 months I believe, but you can actually extend through Manila for up to
24 months. Again, not totally sure about that as I haven't been here long
enough to worry about it (going on my 7th month) but that is what I have been
told. Also, things change all the time.

------
mariana
The funny thing to me about this article is I am already living in a country
where you can live reasonably well with 500$/mo (I born and live in
Venezuela). But you know what? This cheap third world country is a big piece
of shit because of its political situation (Chavez).

So, from my point of view, I am just planning how to leave my country. But
move to another third world country?? No way man... I would prefer to live in
a expensive first world country and work as
developer/codemonkey/entrepreneur/whatever.

So, if you choose to "retire" to a cheap third world country, check its
political situation and background. Now, if you just don't care to be rescued
by UN blue helmets when shit hits the fan, just be my guest...

------
Dilpil
How exactly does one make six percent a month from safe investments?

~~~
patio11
_six percent a month_

Six percent annually.

That said, it is a fantasy, unless you intend on your retirement getting cut
short by death prior to you exhausting your money. The standard recommendation
for someone who is much older (i.e. can rely on death to moot insolvency with
greater probability) is that the safe withdraw rate is 4%.

With a withdraw rate of 4% and a standard mix of stocks and bonds you can be
fairly confident that, assuming the future looks something like the past, you
will not run out of money within your lifetime. (Most people will in fact see
their money "go infinite", i.e. their portfolio expands faster than their
withdraw rate and when they eventually pass away their heirs and government
get to toast their name quite a bit. However, the prudent investor doesn't
plan on being "most people", they plan on being the unlucky sod who bought at
the top and sold at the bottom.)

~~~
pfedor
And let's not overlook that it's 4% before taxes. So in reality, closer to 3%

~~~
nazgulnarsil
capital gains aren't taxed @ 25%.

------
ibsulon
wait... live comfortably on 2,000 a month, and live on 4,000 a month as a
king?

Heck, I live on around 3,000 a month (after fairly aggressive savings by
American standards) in a middle sized city and it's very comfortable. I could
live comfortably on 2,000 a month if I wasn't working! (That's for one, mind
you.)

~~~
fuzzbang
Well, 4k USD per month is ~130k THB. The purchasing power of the Baht means
that that is about equivalent to ~10k USD. (As an example, a can of Coke costs
12 THB in a 7/11).

130k will buy you a lot of luxury in Thailand. You can get a very good condo
for 30k per month. You can each out for every meal of every day for about 1.5k
per diem, so 45k for food. That still leaves 55k for spending on going out,
buying clothes, utilities, gadgets, etc. etc. That is more than "comfortable".

Even 70k per month is more than enough for a very comfortable lifestyle. Local
food costs < 100 THB per meal, so you could eat for less than 300 THB per day.
A reasonable condo is only 20k if you're willing to live away from the tourist
areas.

------
msluyter
I'm curious about safety. I know this is probably an exaggeration based on too
much media exposure, but my impression is that some of these places have high
rates of kidnapping and the like. And it seems that if you were a westerner,
especially if you were old, you'd stand out as a target.

------
fuzzbang
It seems like there is a lot of BKK based people here. Anyone want to meet up
for a beer?

jim.farang gmail.com

------
eleitl
> and you made 6% annually from safe investments

6% and "safe" these days does not sound doable.

------
socratees
Why would you want to live in a place with a lesser standard of living than
US?

~~~
lionhearted
Standard of living isn't everything. One of the best times of my life was in
China, lifting weights, hiking up mountains, spending nights in temples,
drinking tea, and meeting local people some of whom had never seen a white
person before.

If you've never spent 3+ weeks in a country that's very different
economically/socially than your own, I'd recommend it. You might like it,
might not. I've had mixed experiences with different countries. I quite
enjoyed China and Malaysia, Eastern Europe not so much.

But we all have different tastes - there's a meme in the USA that it's the
"greatest country in the world" - I reject the notion that there _is_ a
greatest country in the world. Just different places for different people at
different times in their lives.

~~~
fluffster
_there's a meme in the USA that it's the "greatest country in the world"_

There's the same meme in India, and perhaps in other countries too. It is a
bit silly to think like that, especially when most people haven't really
travelled to many countries. I used to think the same but once I started
travelling my views changed. Definitely worth a try.

