
MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim - bensummers
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/28/ides_versus_the_people/
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j_baker
I think part of the issue is that languages like C# (and I would suspect Java)
were literally designed with the IDE in mind. Languages like Ruby were
designed to be easy to use without an IDE. I'd prefer the latter, but I
suppose a valid case can be made for the former.

On a personal level, I agree with Reginald Braithwaite (sp?) when he said that
IDE features are language smells. I think a good language should be easy to
use in any IDE.

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jasonlotito
Never thought of it that way. Of course, I wouldn't call it a language smell,
rather a framework or library smell. C# isn't complicated. The frameworks and
libraries on top of it are a bit much, and that's where the IDE really helps.
C is a small language, but tack on a framework and you aren't learning C as
much as you are learning the framework. Same things for Rails.

Of course, no one is going to use C# without the frameworks and libraries
added in, so I guess you almost have to include the IDE support. But then,
seeing what VS 2010 can do makes me wish Eclipse or Netbeans could do it as
well. Couple that with the fact that Eclipse and Netbeans feel so heavy and
clumsy compared to 2010 despite 2010's size and beta status.

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Gunther
While I do agree that development, build, and testing shouldn’t rely on a
single IDE/toolset, I have to admit that I really do enjoy the explorative
properties of many of the current IDEs for Java, C++, and C#. When I need to
dig through foreign code I always find it a lot easier to do it using a IDE
that has good jump and search capabilities like Eclipse.

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prog
I tend to stick to Vim for everything Java, Scala, Python etc. :vimgrep along
with :tabedit works nicely. To help with nested path I tend to have paths for
my project setup in .zshrc so I can do :e $PROJECT_SRC/foo/bar/x.java or
$PROJECT_TEST/foo/bar/simple.java.

vim + terminator[1] + build tool (ant, maven, sbt [2], scons...) works very
nicely for me.

Two reasons I stay away from IDEs: a) I find them horribly unresponsive b)
Being used to Vim for the last 10 or so years I find I am very quick with it.

[1] <http://www.tenshu.net/terminator/> [2] <http://code.google.com/p/simple-
build-tool/>

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mattwdelong
I gave you karma for your use of Terminator, and of course, VIM. I find these
tools immensely helpful to my development.

With dual 24" Monitors I span terminator across both screens, split horizontal
once and vertically on each screen. Modified keybindings make switching
between terminals so simple. Add Synergy for seamless access to my Windows
system, I can't find a better set up.

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martinp
The funny thing is that when compared to Visual Studio (and JDeveloper?),
NetBeans, IntelliJ and even Eclipse can be considered lightweight.

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giu
That's actually true. A fresh install of Visual Studio (VS) is already quite
heavy, but when you install an add-in like ReSharper (hands down, it's still
one of the best add-ins for VS) on top of it everything gets more heavy and
slower. Yet still, for the time I had worked with Eclipse during my studies, I
have to say (languages set aside) that I enjoy more to work with VS.

~~~
martinp
Most users of Visual Studio I've spoken to usually recommendeds the ReSharper
addon, like you just did. ReSharper is a nice tool, no doubt about it. But
what I don't understand is how Visual Studio can be so big and heavy and still
don't have refactoring tools that can match ReSharper.

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giu
That's the question I'm asking myself, too. They added a lot of functionality
to VS (unit testing, TFS support etc.), but they never added more
refactorings, which I and surely others would appreciate. ReSharper's
refactoring functionality is right now the only reason I would consider to
install the add-in, but since I didn't need any of the _advanced_ refactorings
yet, I'm keeping ReSharper away from my VS installation. I get my work done
without it, so I see no need to bloat VS any more :) But, I surely can
recommend to install it for various other reasons, e.g. I stumbled upon a few
interesting things thanks to its suggestions.

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AndrewDucker
"But lighter weight tools offer a more rapid edit/test cycle with less waiting
time."

If I'm using Visual Studio then a rebuild is a keypress away. I currently have
the Resharper addon installed, which means that running all the unit tests
just means pressing ctrl-shift-N. I can't see how a lighter weight tool would
make that any faster...

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albemuth
autotest for ruby will run your tests every time it detects a file has changed
;)

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regularfry
The main thing I miss from "big" IDEs is decent refactoring tools.

The one thing I _don't_ miss is having them take over my project workspace.
That really irritates me.

