
Dolphins Show Self-Recognition Earlier Than Children - dnetesn
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/science/dolphins-self-recognition.html
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lamacase
Comments in this thread seem kind of... defensive? Are people really worried
that this is going to be extrapolated to "Dolphins are universally and forever
smarter than humans" or what?

I'm not sure what to make of the "so what?" comments. Would this discovery
only be interestinging if it validated hitchhiker's guide?

I think this is interesting regardless of whether it upends the "intellectual
hierarchy" of species.

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sudhirj
Development speeds in the animal kingdom aren’t really an apples to apples
comparisons. Deer calves run before, chimp babies climb before human babies.

If you’re comparing cars for a race, you need to check both acceleration and
top speed. Just calling out one of them is not helpful.

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mosselman
You completely miss the point lamacase is making. He finds it strange that
people get defensive about the article, just like you did. He isn't saying
that dolphins are smarter than humans.

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oblio
And if they prove smarter than humans, the first thing I'd think of would be:
how do I communicate with them??

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monocasa
Part of what's going on is that, as a result of our large brain, if we were
fully formed, we wouldn't be able to pass through the birth canal.

As an evolutionary strategy, we're basically born at a stage of development
that'd be considered a fetus for other animals in a lot of ways, and rely a
lot more heavily on our parents as we continue our development.

~~~
megaman22
Humans are effectively marsupials, we just don't have a pouch.

I remember, back in the heydey of the Discovery channel having real science
programming, a Wild Discovery[1] about guanacos in the Andes. Within an hour,
the baby guanaco was birthed, licked clean of placenta, and on it's feet
scrambling unsteadily up 14k foot mountains after it's mother.

[1] I miss this show, and that era of basic cable documentary television so
much...

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monocasa
I mean, we're similar in that regard, but were more closely related to
literally all placental mammals than marsupials.

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randomdrake
Study: Precocious development of self-awareness in dolphins

Citation: Morrison R, Reiss D (2018) Precocious development of self-awareness
in dolphins. PLoS ONE 13(1): e0189813.

Link:
[https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0189813](https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0189813)

DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0189813

Abstract: Mirror-self recognition (MSR) is a behavioral indicator of self-
awareness in young children and only a few other species, including the great
apes, dolphins, elephants and magpies. The emergence of self-awareness in
children typically occurs during the second year and has been correlated with
sensorimotor development and growing social and self-awareness. Comparative
studies of MSR in chimpanzees report that the onset of this ability occurs
between 2 years 4 months and 3 years 9 months of age. Studies of wild and
captive bottlenose dolphins (Tursiops truncatus) have reported precocious
sensorimotor and social awareness during the first weeks of life, but no
comparative MSR research has been conducted with this species. We exposed two
young bottlenose dolphins to an underwater mirror and analyzed video
recordings of their behavioral responses over a 3-year period. Here we report
that both dolphins exhibited MSR, indicated by self-directed behavior at the
mirror, at ages earlier than generally reported for children and at ages much
earlier than reported for chimpanzees. The early onset of MSR in young
dolphins occurs in parallel with their advanced sensorimotor development,
complex and reciprocal social interactions, and growing social awareness. Both
dolphins passed subsequent mark tests at ages comparable with children. Thus,
our findings indicate that dolphins exhibit self-awareness at a mirror at a
younger age than previously reported for children or other species tested.

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everdev
Humans are one of the slowest developing mammals, so this sounds expected.

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nitwit005
It does say they predicted it, so this is "scientists find result everyone
expected".

> Dr. Reiss said the timing of the emergence of self-recognition is
> significant, because in human children the ability has been tied to other
> milestones of physical and social development. Since dolphins develop
> earlier than humans in those areas, the researchers predicted that dolphins
> should show self-awareness earlier.

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thriftwy
If you look at dog versus human intelligence, newborn humans have a start
(they have functional vision and hearing from the day one), then puppies will
pass them (they can run and do many things while infants can't even crawl),
but then children will outrun dogs (speech starts to form) and that's forever.

If dolphins show self-recognition earlier, their runway might just be shorter.
Doesn't tell us much.

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travisp
Human babies are pretty helpless compared to most animals, which I think
supports your point. Human babies can't walk, crawl, roll, or even lift their
heads. Even with your example of vision, newborn humans barely have functional
vision, depending on what is meant by "functional."

> The ability to focus their eyes, move them accurately, and use them together
> as a team must be learned.

Source: [https://www.aoa.org/patients-and-public/good-vision-
througho...](https://www.aoa.org/patients-and-public/good-vision-throughout-
life/childrens-vision/infant-vision-birth-to-24-months-of-age)

> At first, the farthest your baby will be able to see is the distance from
> your arms to your face (about 6 to 10 inches).

Additional source: [https://www.whattoexpect.com/first-year/baby-
vision](https://www.whattoexpect.com/first-year/baby-vision)

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wbillingsley
Of course, you do realise that dolphins spend practically their entire lives
in close proximity to a reflective surface, seeing it from both underneath and
above? Of course a surface where they can see clear reflections close up is
going to be interesting to them.

In other news, dogs are better than humans at self-recognising the smell of
their own urine.

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ujal
Mirror Self-Recognition is closely linked to social awareness and self-
consciousness[0]. Does it mean dolphins are more self-conscious than humans?

[0]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22673374](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22673374)

~~~
wbillingsley
Nope, that would be one of those leaps you can't make, loosely akin to the
schoolyard game of -

Donut consumption linked to economic development... Development of satellite
infrastructure linked to economic development... Does this mean that Dunkin
Donuts has more satellites in orbit?

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meganibla
Dolphin young also emerge more developed and capable than human young, is it
really so surprising they get woke before us?

Even if dolphins are smarter, which depends on metric, we rule the earth and
are more successful here than them...Unless it’s dolphins piloting the cigars
and discs that shoot out of the oceans.

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Valmar
Behind a login-wall, but an interesting critique of the mirror test
nevertheless:

[https://www.academia.edu/2525451/A_Critical_Analysis_of_the_...](https://www.academia.edu/2525451/A_Critical_Analysis_of_the_Mirror_Self-
Recognition_Test)

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jxramos
It's not where you start but where you finish.

~~~
serf
the judgment criteria matter, too.

dolphins are a heck of a lot better at swimming than I am; world-building, not
so much.

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jxramos
I just imagined myself in a race with dolphin, the two of us at the starting
line, me with a wetsuit and swim fins and goggles, and how intense it would be
at the countdown to swim all out dive into some sort of dizzying psych-myself-
out spiral, and know that I'd be left in the dust and it would only be so fun
for about 1.5 seconds before I'm toast.

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kakarot
Dolphins also have a shorter lifespan. I'd wager these two data points aren't
completely independent.

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cetalingua
When she died in 2014 Nellie (a bottlenose dolphin in Marineland) was 61. No
one realy knows what is the maximum lifespan in the wild. Some bowhead whales
have the lifespan over 200 years, and we know nothing about their self-
recognition or when it emerges.

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johnhenry
I, for one, welcome our new dolphin overlords.

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DaniFong
better tails, too

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allengeorge
Puppies start walking earlier than babies.

Great. The next question _should_ be: so what? And that's what this article
fails to deliver on.

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rubatuga
It actually does show something interesting. Self recognition is a complex
activity that isn’t dictated through a simple instinct. That means dolphins
are developing their frontal lobe faster than humans. Puppies walking is an
instinct, and isn’t necessarily a complex development

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JumpCrisscross
> _Self recognition is a complex activity that isn’t dictated through a simple
> instinct_

Source? If anything, this finding increases the odds that self-recognition
might be a genetically primed (or even pre-programmed) neuronal circuit.

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otabdeveloper1
> Children start showing signs of self-recognition at about 12 months at the
> earliest

Doesn't match my real-world experience with real-world children. I'd rather
trust my own lying eyes than an unsourced citation of "scientists say".

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Shivetya
well I am going with the idea that young humans have many more distractions in
their life to yield a good test. however I am certainly not an expert in this
area but I wonder what a good test would be? Set toddlers in play rooms with
mirrors on one wall?

