

The Browser You Loved to Hate - ojr
http://browseryoulovedtohate.com/

======
milesf
Don't care how good the browser is, Microsoft has caused me so much pain over
the last decade and a half with their products I am simply unwilling to trust
them ever again. I tolerate their products because I have to, but whenever I
have the chance to slit the throat of their technologies in the workplace, I
do so without remorse.

Do I sound angry? No, I'm not angry. I've just been burned too many times by
Windows, Office, IE, and Exchange to be stupid enough to ever trust them
again. The line about "this time we're better" is such a broken record.

~~~
JimmaDaRustla
I think you're doing something wrong...

~~~
milesf
It's possible, but completely abstaining from Microsoft products has made my
life a lot happier. I'm not as angry as I used to be.

~~~
JimmaDaRustla
Odd, opposite here. Always have a better/easier experience with enterprise
Microsoft products.

~~~
joejohnson
Do you work for Microsoft? I can't recall any enterprise Microsoft products
that I would have chosen to use out side of the office.

~~~
JimmaDaRustla
No. I don't typically use any MSFT products outside of work other than Windows
and Office. I was implying that at work, implementing things like AD
permissions, Windows Server, SQL server, exchange, network shares, etc. etc.
etc., MSFT solutions make for a much more pleasant experience with very few
issues or headaches.

I'm a client/server web enthusiast, so I like my linux boxes and vim editor,
etc. I'm not intrigued by heavy frameworks and bloated IDEs.

------
islon
Translating: "we never gave a fuck about web standards because we were a
monopoly, now we realized we're losing the war and decided to improve things.
Hope it's not too late..."

~~~
jeremiep
What annoys me is that most of the tiles are just variations of some
"Comebacks come in many shapes and sizes" meme they invented. It always amaze
me how Microsoft's marketing manages to be completely disconnected form
reality time after time.

I don't know any power-users who will switch to IE after seeing this website.
If anything, they'll see this as an insult to their intelligence and stay even
further away from IE than they did before.

Every time Microsoft tries to be hip and cool, I hear a collective facepalm.

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nthitz
I think most of us can agree that IE 10 has come along way. The reason web
developers hate IE is when we have to build sites for older versions of IE
because people can't or won't upgrade. Sometimes clients require support for
these older browsers. I have no problems with IE 10, but those older versions
that just won't die are the problem.

~~~
beatgammit
It's more than that. Here are some features that other browsers have that IE10
still doesn't have:

* SPDY (supported by Firefox, Opera and Chrome)

* FlexBox (partially supported in IE10, FF and Safari, full support in Chrome and Opera)

* WebGL (partial support in FF, Opera and Safari, full support in Chrome)

* Shared WebWorkers (fully supported in Chrome, Safari, Opera [even BB browser...])

* File API (partial support, full support in FF, Chrome, Safari, Opera [also BB browser...])

* WebM/Ogg (fullly supported in FF, Chrome, Opera)

There are a few things that IE10 has that other browsers don't have yet, but
knowing M$, this is likely the last update for a year or so. I expect FF and
Opera to catch up soon in those places where they lag behind.

Sure, IE10 isn't that bad, but there are still some things that can't be used
yet that developers (like myself) really want (especially a unified video
format...).

<http://caniuse.com/>

------
caoimhin
Since I fist say it back in 1995 or so, IE has never supported a computing
platform I was running, so honestly I've never given it any thought. So the
"loved to hate" bit is wrong.

Looking at it now, it still doesn't.

So, moving on...

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silverlight
If they were going to rebuild it from the ground up anyway, would it really
have killed them to just use Webkit?

~~~
simonw
A browser rendering engine is a pretty crucial piece of strategic
infrastructure for an operating system company. Having future features
controlled by a competitor isn't a great place to be in.

~~~
RandallBrown
webkit isn't controlled by a competitor necessarily. It's an open source
project with contributors from lots of companies. Apple started it, so they
likely have the most say _right now_ but I think plenty of people at Google
have a bit of power. I'm sure that if Microsoft was to put serious effort into
it, they would get decision making power too.

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andy_adams
Recently, I hit a JS issue in IE10 that existed in prior versions of IE. I
used to fix it with conditional comments - but since IE10 removed those, it
required an even uglier hack to fix.

I don't know if my JS is bad, but the fact that every other browser handled it
fine left me with the same awful taste in my mouth as every other version of
IE. I really don't want to hate IE10, but so far, no good.

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JoelMcCracken
The reason IE was bad was Microsoft's business practices. The problem is the
carpenter, not the wood.

~~~
dexterchief
Amen Brother. IE was/is broken on purpose to prevent web apps from competing
with Microsoft's bread and butter desktops apps, IMO. MS is scared they losing
IE's drag on the momentum of the web. This is forcing them to update IE so its
at least close enough to other browsers that it is not abandoned completely
and suddenly I am supposed to be impressed?

Additionally, why is Microsoft marketing material making the front page of HN?

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sjs382
IE has caused a lot of pain for web developers. The browser itself has gotten
better, but semi-recent decisions (like the fact that WindowsXP is stuck with
IE8) still cause pain with these developers.

Even if this was resolved and all Windows machines were magically upgraded to
IE9 or IE10, I still couldn't trust microsoft to act developers interest. With
this in mind, I will continue to evangelize other platforms when given the
opportunity.

It was a great commercial, though. It definitely made me feel silly for
evangelizing other browsers, until I remembered that these problems with IE
still remain.

tl;dr: Wounds inflicted by IE still remain. And trust will be an issue for a
long time.

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tzaman
This time around MS did it right with IE10 - however they fucked it up with
Windows 8 (on which it runs) really badly. Hopefully the version for windows 7
will be released sooner rather than later.

~~~
avens19
Can you explain this? As a Windows 8 user I'm wondering what the issue is.

~~~
tzaman
Try asking a non-savvy user to use Metro. Or do anything when logged in to
Windows 8 for the first time for that matter.

They mixed mobile and desktop approach within the same OS. Time will tell, but
I'm not betting on it. I may be wrong though.

------
tazzy531
Off-topic: Is there some js library that handles the Pinterest style look with
infinite scroll? I've been seeing this design pop up more and more.

~~~
mgko
The original - <http://suprb.com/apps/gridalicious/> Others -
<http://masonry.desandro.com/> , <http://isotope.metafizzy.co/>

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BitMastro
No, the tense is wrong. I still love to hate IE. If it was the best browser
around by a mile I'll still hate it, but maybe I'll use it. Maybe..

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Jayschwa
The site tries so hard to tell me how great IE 10 is, then provides me a
download link to IE 9.

------
emp_
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk&feature=youtu...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk&feature=youtu.be)
absolutely hilarious and on the spot for haters in all fronts.

~~~
laumars
Not really no. Most of the criticisms that have been levelled against IE are
technical in nature and very real (dragging their feet on web standards,
breaking their own compatibility guidelines from version to version, etc).

Any piece of PR that has to resort to portraying their opponents as having the
IQ of the average YouTube commenter, has automatically lost any credibility.
Then to fall back on badly judged kitten memes was just cringe-worthy.

Nobody is disputing that IE has come along way. The issue isn't whether the
latest version of the browser is capable, but rather whether we'd want to get
back into bed with Microsoft given their past history. And thankfully there is
so much choice in the market now, that people can choose not to use browsers
for even the seemingly trivial reasons; such as historical prejudice.

Thus as long as there is competition in the market, I'm going to support the
platforms that have a history of promoting a free and open web.

~~~
emp_
Still hilarious, I see where you are coming from but it's just not about that
-- this is a high value production of a recurring discussion in every single
online forum, it's like seeing a book become a movie and the writers/directors
managed to bring life to things exactly as you imagined them. I myself don't
care that the ad is about IE, I suffered it all -- from xml data islands to
lack of text shadows even today, so much that I can't bother to see that as PR
just like my eyes learnt to skip banner ads after a few years. I was more
amazed by the portrait than the product in question.

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robtotheb
Publicity stunt by Microsoft?

~~~
charonn0
According to the whois[1], yes.

[1][https://www.networksolutions.com/whois-
search/browseryoulove...](https://www.networksolutions.com/whois-
search/browseryoulovedtohate.com)

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jblock
Images for text? No thanks.

I get it. IE is better. Just don't insult designers/developers you're trying
to impress by half-assing proper semantics.

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nhebb
Pet peeve: I would never use IE as long as there is no built-in password
manager. You shouldn't have to rely on 3rd party add-ins for this.

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jabo
Previous submission: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4515019>

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IanDrake
I still prefer chromes context menus, but I've been using IE10 as my primary
browser for a while now and have no major complains.

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ddw
Great job. Now upgrade every damn user immediately.

