
The College of Chinese Wisdom: Confucius - T-A
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-college-of-chinese-wisdom-1459520703
======
ideonexus
What has always impressed me about Confucius is how is philosophy has survived
2,000 years in China, and it is completely secular. It achieves the societal
peace religion usually makes claim to, but without the invisible man in the
sky. For all its flaws, the Imperial Examination in China, which was series of
exams on Neo-Confucian philosophy anyone could take to become certified to
work at various levels in the state bureaucracy, was quite egalitarian [1].

But at the root of Confucianism is the idea of leading by example and through
self-discipline. If you want to understand Confucianism, "The Great Learning"
is where your studies should first begin. This is my favorite passage from
that writing:

 _The ancients who wished to illustrate illustrious virtue throughout the
kingdom, first ordered well their own states. Wishing to order well their
states, they first regulated their families. Wishing to regulate their
families, they first cultivated their persons. Wishing to cultivate their
persons, they first rectified their hearts. Wishing to rectify their hearts,
they first sought to be sincere in their thoughts. Wishing to be sincere in
their thoughts, they first extended to the utmost their knowledge. Such
extension of knowledge lay in the investigation of things._

 _Things being investigated, knowledge became complete. Their knowledge being
complete, their thoughts were sincere. Their thoughts being sincere, their
hearts were then rectified. Their hearts being rectified, their persons were
cultivated. Their persons being cultivated, their families were regulated.
Their families being regulated, their states were rightly governed. Their
states being rightly governed, the whole kingdom was made tranquil and happy._

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination)

[2] [http://mxplx.com/meme/2873/](http://mxplx.com/meme/2873/)

~~~
otabdeveloper
> ...but without the invisible man in the sky.

'天', "Heaven", is literally a pictogram of the 'invisible man in the sky'.

The ancient Chinese were monotheist, and Confucius was no exception.

Trying the fit modern norms over historical people and cultures that existed
3000 years ago silly, don't do that.

~~~
chewxy
The chinese concept of 天/'Heaven' is a LOT more abstract than a concrete 'god'
of the West. It's quite self evident in Confucius' work

~~~
randall
*citation required.

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studentrob
Blech. I disagree that schools are responsible for any student's ability or
inability to find him or herself. Schools are one of many gateways that are
_chosen_ by students. We all choose our own path. No need to lay
responsibility at the feet of another.

Another thing Confucius said was if you don't want to do something, don't ask
someone else to do it. If you don't want to find yourself, don't ask the world
to do it for you.

> Confucius proposed another approach: “as if” rituals, that is, rituals meant
> to break us out of our own reality for a moment.

I wonder what the author thinks is the purpose of extracurriculars if not to
give students the opportunity to practice this ritual.

~~~
saulrh
Independent of the original article, I would like to disagree with you.
Forcefully.

> Blech. I disagree that schools are responsible for any student's ability or
> inability to find him or herself. Schools are one of many gateways that are
> chosen by students. We all choose our own path. No need to lay
> responsibility at the feet of another.

It is trivially false that "We all choose our own path" and that sentiment
stinks of caveman thinking and bloody evolution. Schools may not be
_singularly_ responsible, but the average American public school goes a long
way toward preventing enlightenment. As a trivial example, consider the tested
and measured objective effects of, say, enforcing abstinence-only sex
education on whether a population actually has sex or not. You _say_ that we
can all "choose our own path", but when you really get down to it, the
selection of paths that are available to us and which paths we're allowed to
go down are not up to us, some paths are easier to go down than others, and we
don't all have infinite intelligence, willpower, or time. If we did, we
wouldn't have problems like being poor or the autism spectrum or functional
illiteracy or innumeracy. Everybody _wants_ to get rid of these things, but
the paths to being free of them simply aren't there.

> Another thing Confucius said was if you don't want to do something, don't
> ask someone else to do it. If you don't want to find yourself, don't ask the
> world to do it for you.

 _Fuck_ this "every man for himself" bullshit. That's what gets us into the
messes that we're in right now. Success is built on cooperation and
coordination and if you insist on doing everything yourself you'll never get
past living in trees and ooga-boogaing at antelope. We, as humans, are
distinguished by our ability to ask people to do things that we don't want to
do, that we wouldn't do as well, or that we can't do without help, and I
consider this mindset, to throw those things away as being "weak" somehow, to
be _heresy_. Being able to ask someone else for help is what makes humans
_strong_.

~~~
studentrob
> Independent of the original article, I would like to disagree with you

You're welcome to try. My comment was written within the context of the
article.

> Schools may not be singularly responsible, but the average American public
> school goes a long way toward preventing enlightenment.

The first line of the article makes it clear they're talking about higher
education. So, in the context of the article, by schools I meant colleges and
not the average american school.

> the selection of paths that are available to us and which paths we're
> allowed to go down are not up to us, some paths are easier to go down than
> others

For anything in which we are educated you will find some people who follow the
education and others who don't. I won't disagree that marketing and education
plays a big role on people who look to others to make decisions for them. I
won't disagree that some people grow up without the love needed to empower
their own confidence. Yet the fact remains that you can once in awhile find a
destitute child who has risen to the top and beaten the odds. This suggests
that marketing is not all powerful. It is possible to beat the odds.

> Fuck this "every man for himself" bullshit

Let me also add that I don't think we should stop educating. I just think that
part of education should include the idea that _yes you can_ and _you don 't
need to do exactly as I say in order to be successful_. Part of this message
involves telling the student that he is valuable and can make his or her own
choices just like I wrote above. No problem in asking for help. I will help
and in the process try to find something that you did yourself, point it out,
and hopefully give you some more confidence.

None of us are better than any other. None of us are worse than any other. The
sooner you come around to that idea, the sooner you stop placing more value in
others than yourself, or vice versa.

~~~
abalashov
> The first line of the article makes it clear they're talking about higher
> education.

Indeed, but when folk enter post-secondary education, their schooling
overwhelmingly accounts for their intellectual development and conscious
personal history in most cases.

~~~
studentrob
Well you've got to start doing things for yourself at some point. If that
isn't done during college these days I don't know when it is. Probably varies
among us. You could even reasonably say it doesn't happen even until death
since people will help you not die until you die.

The only issue I take with this article is it is blaming the very institutions
that provide _optional_ education. Many students must take out a very big loan
to attend college in the US. To then blame schools for not helping us find
success, I find ironic. If you're not happy with the educational system you
can begin by teaching. Put your money where your mouth is.

------
gyeonggi
Pretty good resource on Confucius:
[http://www.thenoneo.com/](http://www.thenoneo.com/)

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elevenfist
Confucius was an authoritarian. There, I said it. There are other sources of
Chinese wisdom.

~~~
qntty
I'll take Lao Tzu over Confucius any day.

~~~
sn41
Amen to that. Lao Tzu is spiritual and gentle.

Confucius sounds like an apologist for imperial servitude, giving a generous
dose of quotidian platitudes. All this insistence on proper appearance, filial
piety, and behaviour is an appalling appeal to conform. I never found anything
subversive or insightful or spiritual in Confucius, but I do appreciate his
sense of humour.

~~~
im3w1l
> I never found anything subversive ... in Confucius

What do you mean? Did you expect him to tell you to fight the power?

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diskcat
Confucianism was chosen by the chinese power-that-be because he encouraged
obedience and conformity. It's the reason Chinese society stagnated with a
monolithic central authority. With a more libertarian approach, there would be
more trade and research and given chinese huge population and food
availability, they might have made a lot of technological progress and we
would have a colony on Mars by now.

So in that way confucianism was similar to christianity during the dark age in
that they were used by the powerful to sedate the masses.

