
Ask HN: Why all the negativity? - mikek
I've noticed a lot of negative comments on HN recently...  comments that disregard that the people making products and announcements are real people with real feelings.<p>For example, the top comment on "TextMate 2 goes open source" is this:<p>http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4361845<p>There so much negativity that even neutral comments like this comment on Grid [1] was assumed to be nasty and received a strong response from pg:<p>http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4357133<p>I'm sure there are lots more examples of this.  Please let's all be aware of this and lets try to make HN a more welcoming place.
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iamwil
Yeah, I noticed this as well. I had stopped reading comments for about a year,
since I got really busy (nothing to do with the state of the comments), and
only recently have been reading it again. The sentiment is different. Lots of
people nitpicking at random little things that have nothing to do with the
main point of the article.

It's like lots of people are perpetuating the cycle of:

1) Read the title and get offended and then write a snarky comment

1a) Read part of the way and and then write a ranting comment

1b) Read the full thing, but nitpick at something that doesn't have any
bearing on the main point.

2) Get upvoted by other trolls

Sad thing is, I think it's chased away some of the better older users like
<http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=edw519> He hasn't posted much in the
last half year, and everything he's said was met with negativity.

And of the older users that stayed, their sentiment is pretty negative as
well. I'm not sure how this happened, as HN usually self-corrects. But lately,
this has been going on for seemingly a while when I read back post comments.

I'm not sure what to do other than post more insightful and positive messages
and don't reply to the negative trolls.

~~~
edw519
I'm still here. Nice to be not(noticed). Thanks, iamwil.

I haven't participated much recently for 2 reasons. 1. I'm super busy with my
own work. 2. This phenomenon, which I've cited many times before:

    
    
              Quality of Hacker News Comments Over Time
    
       |                   . .
       |                  .   . 
      q| . .             .     .
      u|    .           .       .               . . .
      a|     .         .          .           .       .
      l|      .       .              .      .           .
      i|       .     .                  . .               .    
      t|        . . .                       you are here -->. .
      y|                                      (that's all)
       |________________________________________________________
        J J A S O N D J F M A M J J A S O N D J F M A M J J A S

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codeonfire
I think many peoples interpretation of this site, is that since it's related
to start-ups that it's supposed to be the typical vapid conversation you might
find at a start-up gathering. The thinking is that everyone has to be super
positive because they can't afford to be negative whether in dollars or in
social cred.

However, there are also readers here that don't need to put forth an image
because they're not trying to make the start-up scene or maintain a persona.
Many of these same people also feel a moral obligation to keep the truth,
which can clash with other HN participants' motives.

Maybe textmate 2 is shitty. You have to ask yourself what is the reason you
think that idea should not be put forth here.

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shrughes
Negativity is sort of the natural state of discussing things. If you have
something positive to say, it's often vapid or redundant. "Yay, this is good!"
isn't really saying much.

Also, when you have a dissenting opinion, you're more likely to be vocal.

~~~
chris_dcosta
"If you have something positive to say, it's often vapid or redundant" ... it
doesn't have to be.

I have a singer friend who works on a huge variety of projects, some "good",
some "bad", but there is _always_ something positive to say about the "bad"
ones.

That's the purpose of positive criticism, and - for what it's worth - that's
exactly what comes across when you watch PG do something like office hours at
Disrupt.

I do generally agree however that there does appear to be a lot of negative
comments from time to time, but my impression is that when the world turns so
that HN is in Europe time, there is a bit more.

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geuis
It may seem negative to you, and in a particular light I can see that
perspective, but you should ask whether those comments truly provide any
meaningful contribution to the discussion.

I have been seeing everything from "+1" or similar to "Wow that's great", and
while positive, they are ultimately useless comments. They don't contribute in
any meaningful way to the discussion. I will _always_ downvote anything that
doesn't add meaning.

We are worried about trolls, but all too often we forget about the happy
Flickr effect. This means that if you put up a photo on Flickr, almost 99.9%
of the commentary you will get on it will be positive. "That's a great photo,
good job, +1, WOW, etc". When all of the feedback on your content is purely
negative or purely positive, its effectively meaningless.

Our jobs as users of HN is to maintain the traditional high level of discourse
as much as possible. That doesn't mean to be assholes or ever-loving angels,
but to be in the middle. If you read through my comment history, its a
combination of positive and negative. I even recognize that sometimes I forget
my own advice and think I come across as too critical or too approving.

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debacle
Because there's a lot of useless shit being posted lately.

The revolving door of Ouya, App.net, sexism in STEM, Apple, and nostalgic
blogspam is monumental, the number of 'startups' out there that are not
startups is scary (note: 'cool project' is not the only criteria for having a
startup), and the relative level of meta discussion (like this) is slowly
climbing to an unacceptable level.

If everyone will just shut up and chill out, the problem will correct itself.
These things happen in waves, and should be no surprise to anyone who has been
on the Internet for more than four years.

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joshschreuder
Déjà vu a little: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4354635>

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hooande
Can you provide an example of an internet forum that you consider to be
"positive"?

HN has a higher level of discourse than any other discussion site on the
internet. I'm willing to bet that the ratio of helpful comments to nasty
comments on hn is as high as any site you could name.

If you think HN is negative, you should avoid reddit at all costs. Put 4chan
in your /etc/hosts, because the level of negativity there is enough to turn a
sadist's stomach. Have you ever seen the comments on huffington post or npr?
Compared to those places, HN is a non-stop praise-a-thon.

I think the textmate comment is a great example. The commenter didn't just say
"textmate sux!", he or she made a case and presented some kind of evidence for
the claim of textmate being subpar. I don't think that people need to go out
of their way to phrase things in the nicest way possible. If they don't like
something, they should be able to say that without being labelled as
"negative".

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Xcelerate
I think it's generally an online thing. I find much more negativity online
than in real life. One reason is that it's easier and safer to be negative.

"I knew that company wasn't going to work out."

"I knew that was too good to be true."

In most cases, statements like these are a safe bet. Things aren't always
optimistic. I do find it depressing though -- I prefer communities that
encourage, maybe even naively, optimism.

I almost never upvote negative comments, although I seem to be a minority in
that regard.

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sprobertson
Funny thing, in the past few weeks I started making more HN comments just to
get a feel for it. Of the lot of them some are insightful, some helpful, some
joking, many boring, and one mean. The one mean one is the highest rated.

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_delirium
An earlier discussion, fwiw (from 2009):
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926604>

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lnanek2
I prefer the negativity. Gives you an idea of what to work on next if it is
your project, or how to do better than them if it isn't, etc..

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nerdfiles
Following unwittingly, perhaps, the advice "be hated"?

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AznHisoka
Another poster made up this phrase. It's Alpha Nerd Syndrome. We can't get the
chicks. We can't diss the boss. So we reveal our ego in an internet forum :)

