
Reconsidering Star Wars IV in the light of I-III  - Androsynth
http://www.morningstar.nildram.co.uk/A_New_Sith.html
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MartinCron
I really like reading this, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm reading a
form of "creation science", where you need some particularly creative
interpretations of things in order to make sense.

Making Han Solo into an unwitting front for a Wookie mastermind is a lot like
explaining how Carbon 14 would decay at a different rate before the great
flood. It's better to just accept that there are holes in the story than to
try to make everything fit together perfectly.

~~~
electromagnetic
Being a writer, I can personally believe Lucas when he said he'd planned
Episodes I-III before the original trilogy, however at the time he likely only
ever considered them as a back story for the original trilogy. This would be
much-like Tolkien's appendices that cover much of the back story of Middle
Earth, but are in no way a novel, just as Lucas's back story was in no way a
script.

There are obvious plot holes, but that happens with any prequel. It just so
happens that for me there are enough mentions of the past in the original
trilogy that I believe he did have plans for a prequel even from the
beginning. However, I believe that was simply good story telling, because if
it wasn't there wouldn't be the whole star wars universe there is today.

From Lucas' films, Bail Organa did absolutely everything. Yoda was completely
out of communication, likely simply to stay out of the Emperor's way. The Jedi
are good, Yoda is amazing, but even he wouldn't stand up to the Emperor's
wrath (remember, the Sith are as adept at foresight as, if not better than,
the Jedi) had they found his location (IE he'd have glassed the planet).
Anyone travelling to Degobah would have been suspicious, and as Obi Wan was
the first to go blue (Qui-Gon having died like 50 years too early, plus the
established cannon that Obi Wan was sent to Tattoine to learn the secrets of
immortality) Yoda was really and truly out of communication. Obi Wan likely
had the ability to communicate more, but probably didn't manage much beyond
"Hey Organa, Skywalker got heat stroke again, looks like he's pulling through
though!".

Obi Wan's mission was a lot more important than living forever. He learnt how
to physically join the force, which has to be achieved at death (Qui-Gon
didn't vanish, he died), hence "If you strike me down now, I will only become
more powerful than you could ever imagine!" Not exactly a cry for mercy. Why
is this important? Well there was only 2 Jedi and 2 Sith left in the _entire
universe_ , if the Jedi managed to skip the whole 'disappearing into non-
existence' they would be able to restore the Galactic Senate to its height
pre-prequel-trilogy. Obi Wan died, and so did Yoda. However, if Vader hadn't
turned back to the Light-Side he and the Emperor would have vanished, with all
the knowledge of the Sith with them. 100 years down the road when someone
talented in the force appeared, they'd be visited by two Force Ghosts that
could train them and re-establish the Jedi Order. This was their plan, they
knew full well that Luke and even Leia could die just from life, or at the
hands of the Emperor and it would spell the end of the Jedi for eternity,
while potentially not being the end of the Sith.

Bail Organa, sadly was Obi Wan and Yoda's patsy. His job was to incite
rebellion and bring down the Empire by killing the Emperor and Vader. However,
when the first time failed, the Empire was really onto them. The Rebels jumped
into the Battle of Endor right into the Imperial's trap. Had Luke basically
not sacrificed himself, voluntarily being captured and luring Vader onto the
Death Star 2 with the Emperor and distracting them both then the entire battle
would have ended with "Oh shit, the thing has a shield!" as the DS2 had an
active cannon and the Empire had deployed its gravity well technology to stop
them jumping out (this was passingly mentioned in the film as the reason why
they couldn't escape, but never directly explained). Luke, by all rights, got
lucky that Vader had a heart, which gave him time enough to escape. Had Vader
not had a heart, Luke would have been human-pork-roast and the Emperor and
Vader would have died in the explosion.

The New Trilogy aptly set up the story line that Lucas told in the Original
Trilogy. He had to smooth a few rough edges, but the Original Trilogy itself
had many plot holes to begin with, for instance: How did Vader manage to be
within an inch of his daughter and not recognise her, but barely got into the
same room as Luke before knowing it was his son. Lucas is doing decent to say
there was 22 years between the two movies, and apart from the whole "Han Shot
First" fiasco, he's made the stories significantly better for new fans
watching through from the beginning. However the whole "Luke I am your Father"
is ruined, so my Kids will one day see the original trilogy first and I'll
ruin all of George Lucas' work!

Why didn't R2 and Chewie know who each other were? Well firstly R2 can
basically communicate with C3P0 and Luke. Chewie can basically communicate
with C3P0 and Han. Simply put, the only one with a talent for communicating
there is C3P0 and from the looks of it, he's had so many memory wipes that
he's basically incapable of doing much but following and acting as a more
annoying google translate. Secondly R2 and Chewie are part of a fucking
terrorist group, they're plotting to destroy the government! I doubt there's
an open list of active members published at every meeting house. Chewie was
working with smugglers, R2 was working with _royalty_. Simply put, there
should be no reason whatsoever that they should have known they had both acted
for the Rebels.

When Han left with his cash, it was likely Chewie who prodded Han to return,
likely by bating him. Chewie had worked with the rebels, and disappeared for
20+ years. It's safe to say, that after seeing his entire civilization and
species be concurred by the Empire, he expected the same for everything else.
when he saw how organized Bail Organa had got the rebels, he likely wanted to
rejoin the fight.

------
jgrahamc
Leia specifically says "I have placed information vital to the survival of the
Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit." So, the interpretation of
R2-D2's role at the beginning seems spurious.

~~~
electromagnetic
R2 was a message boy, Leia dumped him onto Obi Wan hoping some loyalist
sentiment would be kicked up in the old fool. Likely she'd over heard some
communication between her step-father and Obi Wan, but never grasped why the
old guy had marooned himself in a desert. Incidentally, to find out how to go
Force-Ghost, which was instrumental to the survival of the Jedi order.

Apparently the Jedi's plan was that Obi Wan discover the ability to go force-
ghost and as he's human and has a shitty lifespan, he could die and secretly
transmit the information to Yoda without Sith interception. Obi Wan, instead
of risking capture decided to let himself die . . . apparently after training
Anakin, he really hates padawans.

Why did Obi Wan travel to Mos Eisley and not simply dig up his old ship he
owned 20 years ago and fly that? I mean he was a frigging fighter pilot! This
major plot hole introduced by his own backstory is somewhat helped by
Chewbaca's back story, Obi Wan set up the meet, and possibly knew of Chewy
beforehand and that Chewy and Han operated from Mos Eisley. This, I believe,
was pure luck on Lucas' part.

------
RyanMcGreal
Here's my question: how did Luke end up stuck slogging in the desert with his
grouchy uncle while his twin sister got to grow up a princess on a beautiful
world?

~~~
jimbokun
I know. It's no fair that Luke got a quiet, peaceful childhood, spending all
his time tinkering with his Land Speeder, shooting swamp rats, and daydreaming
about adventuring through the Galaxy, while his sister had to grow up in a
stifling, controlling, political environment where her every word, action, and
appearance were constantly monitored giving her very little freedom or
privacy.

Obviously, Obi-wan went easier on the boy.

~~~
electromagnetic
Because Vader managed to tell Luke was his son at like 300 meters distance
through steel walls and shit, but didn't catch on when he was stood next to
his daughter . . . some father!

If Luke had taken on the place of Bail Organa's kid, the rebellion would have
been found out very, very fast. I'm sure Bail Organa ran into Vader many times
while he was under Empire suspicion, however I believe it's _very_ had to
explain if Vader walks into your house and says "What the hell, that's my
fucking son! Why do you have my child?!"

Apparently fathers have no connection whatsoever to their daughters. They've
got to strangle their son multiple times before they notice they even have a
daughter . . . sounds like an episode of the Simpsons.

~~~
billswift
It isn't necessarily a difference between father-son and father-daughter; more
likely it's because Luke was using the Force unconsciously in his flying and
shooting even before Obi-wan starting training him, while Leia never showed
any signs of Force use during any of the movies.

~~~
electromagnetic
I know. To be fair, Luke didn't realize she was his sister with her tongue
down his throat, so they're all a bit of a messed up family. Hopefully Luke
would have figured it out before he tried to get into Leia's pants.

------
fondue
This actually makes me rethink George Lucas as being brilliant rather than
stupid. It's also re-written the entire Star Wars saga in my mind for the
remainder of my life.

~~~
DannoHung
No. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI>

~~~
EricBurnett
I thought that was going to be a link to the Star Wars Holiday Special
(<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCNGjKnTzaQ>) as a testament against George
Lucas. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.

~~~
Groxx
the holiday special is painful even _with_ RiffTrax... and those salvage even
some of the worst movies. And yes, I've watched _the whole thing_ , and my
friends who watched it with me are still friends (somehow). Though I did warn
them of the badness.

(for the uninformed: they're the MST3K guys' current project)

------
armandososa
I never was a fan of Star-Wars, but after watching the prequels my thought was
that the Jedis deserved their fate for not taking prophecies literally or not
knowing basic math.

Obi Wan to Anakin: "You were supposed to bring balance to the force!"

Dude, two Jedis and two Siths sounds pretty balanced to me.

------
Sukotto
As far as I'm concerned... this is the new canon for the entire series.

Thank you for saving my love of Star Wars.

------
pronoiac
This just popped up on Cracked's "6 Insane Fan Theories That Actually Make
Great Movies Better" article - [http://www.cracked.com/article/18367_6-insane-
fan-theories-t...](http://www.cracked.com/article/18367_6-insane-fan-theories-
that-actually-make-great-movies-better/)

A related discussion at Metafilter pointed out TV Tropes' page on "Wild Mass
Guesses" - <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/StarWars> \-
specifically, "Luke was a baited trap that got lucky." Obi-Wan & Yoda would
have rather trained Leia in the Force. :)

------
philwelch
One of the more interesting theories I've read about the leadership of the
Rebellion is that control was passed from the aristocracy of Alderaan to that
of Mon Calamari (Admiral Ackbar's planet) between IV and VI, as the Calamari
contributed most of the Rebel capital ships to what was originally a network
of spies and rogue X-Wing jocks.

------
mapspam
it's a shame that the misspelling of Tatooine in that article hasn't been
corrected in 4+ years

oh and Lucas isn't that clever.

~~~
starbuck_
Also Kashyyyk.

While I don't really think Lucas is that clever, he did have plans for nine
films, so I suppose it's possible.

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nazgulnarsil
why are people expending effort making excuses for George's abortion?

------
Rod
How is this HN material? I am curious...

~~~
monological
HN == nerds

~~~
billswift
And nerds == technologically competent + artistically stunted

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raganwald
There were three prequels to the Star Wars trilogy?

~~~
access_denied
I don't know what they are talking about neither. I love those sci-fi movies
from the 70s though...

------
macco
Most geeke Hacker News entry I know :) By the way I-III sucked, so we don't
have the reconsider anything.

