
From Leading the Egyptian Revolution to Making Minimum Wage in San Francisco - pmcpinto
http://priceonomics.com/how-i-went-from-leading-the-egyptian-revolution-to/
======
jacquesm
Long read but very much worth it.

"As the drums of war sounded in America, Egyptians believed that we could not
accept a foreign invasion of another Arab country. We were furious that our
government, which was allied with the United States, allowed American and
British warships to sail through the Suez Canal toward Iraq. I had an
intuition that if the United States attacked Iraq, Egyptians would take to the
streets."

There is so much irony in that paragraph combined with the title it is hard to
know where to begin.

And what became of Egypt is also really not quite what he intended.

~~~
civilian
Overall, I'm against the Iraq war. But... I feel like an egalitarian Arab
should have supported the Iraq invasion. Saddam was cruel to his people, his
sons would crash weddings and rape just about anyone. The new Iraq government
still has problems, but at least it's some semblance of a democracy.

Sam Harris says it best:

 _> As I tried to make clear on Maher’s show, what we need is honest talk
about the link between belief and behavior. And no one is suffering the
consequences of what Muslim “extremists” believe more than other Muslims are.
The civil war between Sunni and Shia, the murder of apostates, the oppression
of women—these evils have nothing to do with U.S. bombs or Israeli
settlements. Yes, the war in Iraq was a catastrophe—just as Affleck and
Kristof suggest. But take a moment to appreciate how bleak it is to admit that
the world would be better off if we had left Saddam Hussein in power. Here was
one of the most evil men who ever lived, holding an entire country hostage.
And yet his tyranny was also preventing a religious war between Shia and
Sunni, the massacre of Christians, and other sectarian horrors. To say that we
should have left Saddam Hussein alone says some very depressing things about
the Muslim world._

[https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-
saved-...](https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-saved-from-
itself)

~~~
jacquesm
> I feel like an egalitarian Arab should have supported the Iraq invasion.

But they didn't. There is a lot of stuff wrong - from my perspective - in the
Arab world, and nobody with actual power from the Arab world seems to actually
want to do much about it. So we end with these half-hearted revolutions which
are more regime changes than actual fundamental changes and if they are
fundamental changes they tend to be for the worse rather than for the better.
It's a real pity.

As for the Iraq war, Saddam and his sons - and all those supporting the regime
- were complete assholes. And I would have supported regime change per-se for
that reason alone, but that wasn't what was sold. Because if we _did_ support
regime change for those reasons then there would be a long waiting list of
other regimes that would deserve to be 'fixed' long before we'd get to Saddam
(in spite of all the crimes they were engaged in the world is full of such
trash, they were not the exception, in spite of the media spotlight being very
much on Iraq).

~~~
x5n1
Saddam was replaced by ISIS after an American inspired civil war that Cheney
saw coming in 1994, so from a geopolitical realpolitik perspective, Saddam as
lying smugly in his grave with a smirk thinking he did nothing wrong. American
rhetoric such as "he's killing his own people" holds little weight, when we
have seen America prop up regimes that routinely kill their own people for
example in Latin America. In the end I think they got rid of Saddam in 91
because they were actually scared that he could put them in check if he wanted
to, and that was enough to warrant containing him. Sure dictators are bad, by
imperialists are worse, especially when they don't give two shits about the
people and use baseless rhetoric to justify their invasion.

What's need in the Middle East is a home grown secular, scientific revolution
and rejection of Islam. Without that, nothing is possible there and all
revolutions and evolutions will fail. The Imperialists will continue their
half ass crusade to civilize the natives... while only causing havoc and
destruction.

~~~
knughit
How is the Western rejection of Christianity coming along?

~~~
jacquesm
Quite well except for a certain continent. In NL churches are being sold for
peanuts because they're empty on Sundays. As the last generation that went to
church regularly dies the church makes one last effort at value extraction:
real estate price increases are being liquidated.

In the USA and Canada it is still very much a popular thing, no idea how long
it will take to get to the point where people realize they're being had.

Religion can have positive effects in people's lives, but at the same time
organized religion is used for vote marshalling and politics, it's just
another power structure and a business to boot. This goes for most religions,
not just for Christianity.

Personally I'd be fine with an englightened version of Islam, one that
formally recognized the rights of women and that did away with the most
antiquated and damaging aspects of the religion. Of course a push to effect
that would result in even harsher pushback from the fanatics, for fear that
such a strategy might succeed.

~~~
cholantesh
Speaking as an ardent secularist, I hope at least some of the older churches
are being preserved for their historical value.

>Religion can have positive effects in people's lives, but at the same time
organized religion is used for vote marshalling and politics, it's just
another power structure and a business to boot. This goes for most religions,
not just for Christianity.

The relationship between the House of Saud and the Wahabbist establishment in
Saudi Arabia demonstrates this. It's absolutely chilling stuff that is
woefully unexamined for its importance to the making of the modern world.

------
acqq
Note that if you read carefully, the guy was actively supported by the U.S. at
the time he prepared the "revolution." He claims he's disappointed by Muslim
Brotherhood gaining power, but it was he who even helped them, he being then
just "an activist" and they being a real "political group":

"I negotiated agreements between activists and political groups like the
Muslim Brotherhood."

Note also that the Muslim Brotherhood was actively "the choice" of the U.S. at
the time of the revolution. Now I'll quote the author once again as he
describes the power struggle between the military and the Muslim Brotherhood:

"The election represented Egyptian politics since the revolution: a power
struggle between military dictators and religious fanatics. And the Muslim
Brotherhood—whose religiosity, I believe, is a trojan horse for pure political
ambition—treated activists just as harshly as the military."

I personally don't believe the religion of Muslim Brotherhood is "a trojan
horse," it's where they get the the goals of their political activity:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood)

"The Brotherhood's English language website describes the principles of the
Muslim Brotherhood as including firstly the introduction of the Islamic Sharia
as "the basis for controlling the affairs of state and society" and secondly,
work to unify "Islamic countries and states, mainly among the Arab states, and
liberating them from foreign imperialism""

~~~
testtesttest
The Telegraph - Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders
behind uprising (9:23PM GMT 28 Jan 2011)

> _On his return to Cairo in December 2008, the activist told US diplomats
> that an alliance of opposition groups had drawn up a plan to overthrow
> President Hosni Mubarak and install a democratic government in 2011._

> _The US government has previously been a supporter of Mr Mubarak’s regime.
> But the leaked documents show the extent to which America was offering
> support to pro-democracy activists in Egypt while publicly praising Mr
> Mubarak as an important ally in the Middle East._

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianoce...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-
protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html)

> _(C) Summary and comment: On December 23, April 6 activist xxxxxxxxxxxx
> expressed satisfaction with his participation in the December 3-5 "Alliance
> of Youth Movements Summit," and with his subsequent meetings with USG
> officials, on Capitol Hill, and with think tanks. He described how State
> Security (SSIS) detained him at the Cairo airport upon his return and
> confiscated his notes for his summit presentation calling for democratic
> change in Egypt, and his schedule for his Congressional meetings.

> _xxxxxxxxxxxx contended that the GOE will never undertake significant
> reform, and therefore, Egyptians need to replace the current regime with a
> parliamentary democracy. He alleged that several opposition parties and
> movements have accepted an unwritten plan for democratic transition by 2011;
> we are doubtful of this claim.*

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianoce...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289698/Egypt-
protests-secret-US-document-discloses-support-for-protesters.html)

EDIT: Reformatted on request.

~~~
acqq
Googling " _Alliance of Youth Movements Summit_ " events gives the U.S.
Department of State and... Google and Facebook:

[http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2008/11...](http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2008/11/20081120122321eaifas0.3440363.html#axzz44u2DjXJO)

"Facebook, Google, YouTube, MTV, Howcast, Columbia Law School and the U.S.
Department of State Convene the Alliance of Youth Movements Summit

Dec. 3-5 Summit in New York to Bring Together Global Youth Groups, Tech
Experts to Find Best Ways to Use Digital Media to Promote Freedom and Justice,
Counter Violence, Extremism and Oppression"

[http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2009/oct/130503.htm](http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2009/oct/130503.htm)

"Sponsored by the U.S. Department of State, Facebook, Hi5, Google, MySpace,
Gen Next, Howcast Media, MTV, PepsiCo, Mobile Behavior, Univisión, Interactive
Media, Inc., Causecast.org, WordPress.com, Edelman, and YouTube, the event
will convene individuals, government officials, academics, and private and
public sector leaders from around the world October 14-16, 2009, to explore
ways to advance grassroots movements seeking positive social change through
21st century technology and tools."

------
sharp11
Really great read about what it's really like to be an activist. Constant
running around hoping that 10 people show up and constant wondering if you're
getting anywhere.

Also, a brutal reminder about the devastating personal costs that we so often
forget about.

As a climate activist here in the US I had it easy, but still so much of this
resonates.

~~~
sydneysider
climate activist, lol.

------
arbre
I have a lot of respect for someone who went through so much. At a much
smaller scale I think that one can be depressed when pursuing a strong goal
comes to an end. It could be a project at work or a degree. I have been
depressed in such situations. I think being able to let go the past and move
on to a different life can help. In my case meditation helped me realize
happiness is not so much about goals but more about being satisfied with
simple things.

------
Nr7
The "bad guys" will always win. Why? Because they don't play by the rules and
therefore they'll always have the advantage.

------
Animats
Revolutions devour their own children.

------
zeveb
Interesting enough read, but why oh why does it break the PgUp button? Rather
PgDn moving down a screen (like space should …) and PgUp moving up, PgDn moves
down a screen and PgUp returns to the top, which is mighty inconvenient.

------
sfnksjjrnnenne
Egypt is the #1 example of the American empires malfeasance and incompetence.

Completely abandoned revolution, we continue to financially support the
military dictatorship.

Go read Obama's Cairo speech and laugh at what a total crock of shit it is,
and how by extension Obama is a bought and paid for clown.

Meanwhile the Western press does what it can to demonize the muslin
brotherhood while white washing the current junta.

And why? Because Egypt is the most populous ME country, borders Israel, and
has the Suez canal, it is deemed strategically too important by our elite to
allow self rule.

Fuck the American empire, responsible for the genocidal killings of millions
since 2001

~~~
zardo
>and how by extension Obama is a bought and paid for clown.

That's not what's going on.

>And why? Because Egypt...borders Israel, and has the Suez canal, it is deemed
strategically too important

This is. US uses Egypt to project military power in the region.

>responsible for the genocidal killings of millions since 2001

The US did not apply the extreme repression required to keep the religious
sects in the region from killing each other. That doesn't mean the US is
genocidal, it means the Middle East is.

