
The Golden Age of X86 Gaming - dwaxe
https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-golden-age-of-x86-gaming/
======
walrus01
For $699 you can build a Skylake based mini-ITX system that uses a real, PCI-
Express 3.0 x16 video card (in the $225 price range for the video card alone)
that will kick this thing's butt in every benchmark.

The Intel "gaming" NUC is $699 before you put in any RAM and an SSD, so its
actual total build cost as a barebones is probably around $899.

The mini-ITX system will be slightly bigger, but also more robust in nearly
every way.

Yes it's tiny and slim but it's effectively laptop grade CPU with onboard GPU
in a single motherboard.

~~~
aavotins
I am genuinely interested in such mini-ITX setup. Can you post an example
please?

Disclaimer: Last time I built my own computer was in 2004 or 2005, so I have
no idea what to look for and what is considered powerful these days.

~~~
chx
For $664.26
[http://pcpartpicker.com/p/49cd8d](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/49cd8d) you can
buy an ITX motherboard, CPU, case, PSU and even a GPU. Needs memory and
storage added, same as the NUC, after all it's the same price.

How much faster wil this be? Intel's own benchmarks show Iris Pro 580 to be
between a 750 and a 750 Ti. The GTX 960 is about twice as fast as a 750 Ti.
[http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-960-vs-
Nvidi...](http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-960-vs-Nvidia-
GTX-750-Ti/3165vs2187)

CPU wise the difference is much smaller, I couldn't find a direct comparison
but I found for the 6700HQ but that's just as good because the 6700HQ and the
6770HQ uses the same CPU
[http://ark.intel.com/compare/88967,93341](http://ark.intel.com/compare/88967,93341)
and then user benchmarks show the 6700 desktop a 20% performance benefit over
the 6700HQ [http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-
Core-i7-6700-vs-I...](http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-
Core-i7-6700-vs-Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ/3515vsm34954)

Of course because you are not restricted by the integrated parts if you were
to spend another $150 then you can get a GTX 970 which is thrice as fast as a
750 Ti and in three weeks when the GTX 1070 lands at the same price as the GTX
970 that'll be four-five times as fast as the GPU in NUC.

For the NUC to be competitive, it would need to be $499 perhaps $549 and the
external GPU box $150 tops. Now that'd be a very different ballgame -- at that
point we would need to look at the significant size advantage and concede that
the much smaller ITX cases are typically small run and tend to be more
expensive so then the NUC+GPU box would give them a run for their money when
space is at the absolute premium. At the current $699 and $499 prices it's
hard to see their niche.

Here's an example for a real small, artisanal :) ITX case for when space is at
an absolute premium: [http://nfc-systems.com/shop/s4-mini-chassis](http://nfc-
systems.com/shop/s4-mini-chassis) You could buy this chassis, the necessary
accessories as listed on the page, a GTX 960 GPU ITX card for the price of the
NUC + Razer Core and end up with a single box barely bigger than the Razer
Core still packing a much bigger punch. Here's a forum post
[http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/post-...](http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/post-
your-computer-build.182/page-3#post-34337) mentioning a similar build (i5 6600
vs i7 6700 is the only diff, it might worth the savings actually).

~~~
pan69
In the [http://pcpartpicker.com/p/49cd8d](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/49cd8d)
list, are you sure the video card fits in there? It's a BIG video card. I have
a 950 sitting here on my desk and I assume 960 is similar size, if not the
same.

~~~
chx
That case has max GPU dimensions max length 13", max height 5.88". That's the
original PCI standard length so there is no video card or any PCI/PCIe card
longer than 13".

Among the current video cards I believe the Asus GTX 980 Ti STRIX is the
longest and even that's only 12" long and 5.5" high. Most video cards are
10.5" or less, even the TITAN X and most 980 Ti cards are only 10.5". You will
have other problems: the 980 Ti has a 250W TDP and you probably need a liquid
cooler in a case this small. (A few years back Asus had an even bigger card,
the MARS II but even that would've fit if only for the length -- the reason it
wouldn't fit is because it had a three slot cooling system! For very good
reasons, it had 365W TDP.)

------
foepys
> This is old hat for PCs, but to release a new, faster model that is
> perfectly backwards compatible is almost unprecedented in the console world.

Nintendo has done this for years with their consoles. You can play Game Boy
games on the Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance (1989 -> 2001), Gamecube
games on the Wii and Wii games on the Wii U. The same was true for Playstation
2 games in the first few versions of the Playstation 3.

There will definitely be games that require a Playstation Neo and will not run
on the Playstation 4.

~~~
szatkus
> There will definitely be games that require a Playstation Neo and will not
> run on the Playstation 4.

According to leaks Sony doesn't allow that.

~~~
patresi
For now...

------
venomsnake
The golden age of x86 gaming is past (or ahead of us).

We are in a bad valley right now. Modding is getting progressively harder -
compare the fan made content for BGII vs MASS EFFECT. Local servers to play
multiplayer too - we had them back in doom and starcraft, so there is no
excuse from excluding them from new doom and starcraft II. Save at anytime is
long past gone - everything is checkpoints, or in the case of XCOM - even if
allowed not "real".

There was more to PC gaming than 4K PC master race superiority (guilty of
being proud member of said race myself).

Back in the day - you played the game, the ways you liked. Right now you play
the game, the ways the developers like in the majority of big games - that is
the console way.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
As someone who has been gaming since the early 80's, I think we indeed are in
a golden age of gaming. But the thing is that you (mostly) have to look at
indie titles, not AAA titles.

Games like FTL, The Curious Expedition, Rocket League, Papers Please, Super
Hexagon, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Chaos Reborn, Keep Talking and Nobody
Explodes... bring back the originality and the pure, unadulterated fun that we
had gaming in the late 80s and early 90s, which had been mostly lost in the
late 90s and in the full 00s decade, where everything seemed to be franchises
and iteration on old formats.

Of course if you look at AAA games it's still mostly rehashes, grindfests and
simplified remakes of classics, but I'd argue you're looking at the wrong
place.

~~~
venomsnake
There is a problem with the indies (I have played a lot of the games on your
list and more) - they rarely make the big money to graduate to big AAA houses
and trendsetters so their production values remain low (and we have the
travesty of retro pixelation on purpose, which is beyond me).

The only company that so far repeated the Bioware/Id story is CD Project RED -
although I do have high hopes for Croteam, Klei and Flying Wild Hog making it
big too.

An ecosystem in which we have only rough diamonds and polished turds is not
healthy. I hope that we will get more polished gems soon.

------
sgt101
I do enjoy my xbox one, but the author is right, the DRM checking which has a
significant user interface bug and slow boots, slow loads make it much less
fun than it should be. The interface bug is that it checks the drm with no
reference to what is currently in the tray, asks if I own the disk and will
only continue if I eject and reinsert the disk in that interaction. If I click
continue because the disk is in there it won't load.

This is a case of lazy lazy ui design and management!

Also when I did rivals first in Forza 6 it gave me a target of 41min for
Nurburgring!

------
hyperpallium
> $1,080 plus tax compared to $399 for one of those console x86 boxes

It's like he's arguing against PC gaming.

------
williadc
These two statements from the article seem to argue against his point.

> The CPU and disk performance on offer here [in the latest NUC] are
> hilariously far beyond what's available on current consoles ... But most
> importantly, its GPU performance is on par with current consoles.

> Zero games are meaningfully CPU limited today

Why would I pay over $1000 for a game machine that is basically identical to
current consoles in the most important aspect of hardware?

~~~
clevernickname
"Games aren't CPU limited" is a myth, and if you build your own PC instead of
following Jeff Atwood's affiliate codes, you can easily put something together
for half that price that absolutely smokes all the current gen consoles, has a
20+ year library, _and_ is useful for work. And when you look at the most
popular game genres in the west today, you basically have MOBAs (which aren't
even playable on consoles) and FPS (which have, dare I say, the objectively
superior input scheme on PC).

It used to be that you would have a PC for FPS, and a home console or three
for all of the niche Japanese stuff. Then almost all of the niche Japanese
devs packed up shop and started developing for handhelds, so you'd get a PC
for FPS and a DS/3DS/PSP/Vita for the niche stuff. Now they're finally
catching onto the fact that most of the "niche gamers" in the west are on
Steam, and we've arrived at the bizarre reality that there are more
interesting JRPGs being released on PC these days than on there are for PS4.
The bizarre reality where I am literally more interested in the PS4 as a
Netflix machine than as a gaming device.

~~~
williadc
> if you build your own PC instead of following Jeff Atwood's affiliate codes,
> you can easily put something together for half that price that absolutely
> smokes all the current gen consoles, has a 20+ year library, and is useful
> for work.

This was more or less my point. He's trying to shoehorn the NUC into a place
where other options fit better.

~~~
clevernickname
Honestly at this point, I assume that every new Coding Horror post is an
excuse to spam affiliate links at people.

~~~
jsmeaton
Eh, it's gear he's actually using. Jeff has a massive audience, so if he's
going to be advocating for tech he's researching and using then I have no
problem with affiliate links. To suggest that's all these blog posts are for
is really poor form.

For what it's worth this build and many previous builds are focused on HTPCs.
Having a quiet, power efficient, and capable box is the aim. That is the
theme. I personally don't see the value in this particular build, but this
isn't trying to be an ultimate gaming rig. Just compareble to current gen
consoles, with upgrade potential, while still being the quiet, small, power
efficient HTPC box sitting under the TV.

------
LeoPanthera
It feels like this thing is tailor made for SteamOS.

~~~
emrecan
Isn't steam great for mostly indie games, which doesn't really need cutting-
edge, power-hungry hardware to render (let alone 4K) ?

~~~
LeoPanthera
No? Not sure where you'd get that idea. The only games that aren't on Steam
are the ones that have Origin exclusivity. And increasingly they have SteamOS
(=Linux) compatibility, thanks to the Steam Boxes.

You can browse the Steam store on the web:
[http://store.steampowered.com](http://store.steampowered.com)

~~~
emrecan
Hey Leo, maybe I wasn't 100% accurate. Comparing games in Steam vs. Origin, I
get the idea, but console gaming has moved into a whole new level already and
they are the ones that are (relatively) more power-hungry in my assessment.
The fact that console games have started diverging from PC games, and even
when there is a PC version, the big title games are primarily being developed
for consoles and then being (kind of) ported to PCs, was my point in
evaluating SteamOS. In a world where 2 consoles will single-mindedly focus on
driving hardware power and distribution plays with big studios, I am still
thinking that Steam might end up representing primarily the distribution
channel for indies to get into console business.

~~~
LeoPanthera
Both the PS4 and the XBone _are_ PCs. They just run a fancy OS. It's still
Intel and a standard GPU underneath.

There's no "porting" going on, not like in previous gen systems, which were
Weird.

Console exclusives are exclusives because the console manufacturer paid for
them to be so, and not because the hardware is special, because it just isn't.

Yes, Steam is great for indies, but that's completely irrelevant here.

------
TwoBit
He keeps saying x86, but all these computers -- including the consoles -- are
x64.

~~~
mackal
They're 64-bit variant of x86, or x86-64. x64 is a shit name and people should
stop using it. Sadly that probably won't happen thanks to Microsoft.

~~~
derefr
In fact, the term "x86-64" came into existence as a term-of-art because "x64"
technically refers to the _Itanium_ ISA (Intel's first now-forgotten attempt
at a 64-bit ISA), not the IA64 ISA (Intel's canonicalization of AMD's
unofficial extension to IA32.)

~~~
ferbivore
Uh, "IA-64" is Itanium. Intel officially calls x86-64 "Intel 64".

~~~
nickpsecurity
Yeah, Itanium is IA-64. It's also dying but not forgotten: people who like
RISC, reliability, security features, and high-speed all in one remember their
vain attempt well. Are also reaping benefits of used HP Integrity and SGI
Altix boxes on eBay selling cheaper than consoles. I'm eyeballing a few of
those suckers myself. :)

------
supercoder
The PC gaming treadmill is the worst. You're committing to throwing so much
money to continue to be able to play the latest games at a consistent FPS.

At least developers are forced to fine tune games for a very specific platform
when it comes to consoles. Sure, the PC can look better, but at least the
console plays better most of the time.

~~~
TimPrice
> You're committing to throwing so much money

Only if you make bad choices buying hardware, like the obsolete stuff that
comes with consoles (even on release)

> console plays better most of the time

PCMasterRace plays real 1080@60 for over a decade

Enjoy your PS4K/Neo/neXt

~~~
kakwa_
Maybe that's exactly the reason why consoles are successful.

It provides an unified device, which lasts around 8 years, which permits to
play recent titles, which is simple to setup up and which is comparatively
cheap.

The PC I'm typing this message is a 9 years old thinkpad, and I would not
attempt to play any "less than 5 years old games" on it.

Some people don't give to much of a shit about highly impressive graphics and
just want to play the fucking game without checking the "minimal configuration
required".

However if consoles tend to be like PCs (same or worst hardware, same or worst
upgrade process, etc), they will just become meaningless.

