
Slack 'bans users' who have visited US sanctioned countries - frereubu
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46642760
======
jstanley
Discussion from earlier today:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18724107](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18724107)

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yellowapple
That's a slightly different situation, though. The "original" article is about
an Iranian national who now lives in Canada, while this "dupe" article covers
both that case and multiple others with the claim that Slack is banning anyone
who has ever visited one of the sanctioned countries.

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aaomidi
I'm one of the people who got banned:
[https://twitter.com/aaomidi/status/1075621119028314112](https://twitter.com/aaomidi/status/1075621119028314112)

Just FYI for everyone here, the US government explicitly allows instant
messaging applications to be exempt from sanctions:
[https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/Programs/...](https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/internet_freedom.pdf)

This is to foster more secure and wider internet access for Iranians.

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dylz
Slack is generally B2B paid service for collaboration, is it not? You would
imagine instant messaging and social networking to be something where
Skype.com falls under the umbrella, but Lync/Skype for Business does not. The
PDF also constantly uses the word personal.

> such as instant messaging, chat and email, social networking, sharing of
> photos and movies, web browsing, and blogging. In order to qualify for that
> authorization, such services and software had to be publicly available
> (widely available to the public) at no cost to the user

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saghm
I'm fairly certain that Slack is available for free usage; I think there's
just a limit on the number of users you can have in your "organization" (where
"organization" doesn't necessarily mean anything formal like a company)
without needing to pay

~~~
dylz
Yes, sure, you can make a free workspace just like you can run a trial of
Lync, but presumably this categorization brings them out of personal messaging
and into a B2B-relationship for business purposes, and the majority of their
business is funded by paid B2B contracts.

NB: I'm not saying this is fair to anyone and it's just my personal
interpretation, but it reads to me that the OFAC PDF linked is overly intent
on specifically personal messaging, for personal individuals, not for business
collaboration, B2B contracts, anything related to work or commercialness

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pilsetnieks
But Slack isn't strictly for businesses. It's "teams" in "workspaces" which
could mean whatever. Especially in the case of free accounts there's a fair
possibility that those could just be some people.

~~~
yellowapple
Indeed; I know of (and have joined) multiple Slack "organizations" that are
just individuals chatting about things. Didn't cost me anything.

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hit8run
Use protocols that are public domain and not some proprietary shit. IRC,
E-Mail and Websites: They will remain long after Slack, Facebook and others
are gone.

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paulie_a
I really don't understand why slack is so popular. It's just irc, if you have
a devops person they can stand that up over lunch, and send out the email to
"hey download this app"

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nrb
Chat bots & integrations...

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yellowapple
Both of which exist in droves for IRC (hell, even Slack at one point had an
IRC integration).

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Hupriene
To be fair, it's often unclear what you need to do to comply w/ sanctions, and
being found non-compliant can bring down some really heavy penalties.

~~~
aaomidi
The emails they sent did not have any appeals process. They were also sent
from no-reply addresses.

The worst thing about this isn't them blocking (even though they didn't need
to). It was that they assumed their systems are 100% perfect and no one would
need to appeal.

It was also the timing of this that was annoying. Right before long holidays
(harder to get to your workplace and let people know what happened)

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sodosopa
On Twitter, here is their standard language

> Our systems may have detected an account on our platform with an IP address
> originating from a designated embargoed country. Please send a note to
> feedback@slack.com so we can investigate further.

In general, they're also saying that,

> If you travel to an embargoed country, your account will not be deactivated
> if you attempt to use Slack.
> [https://twitter.com/SlackHQ/status/1075924814530076675](https://twitter.com/SlackHQ/status/1075924814530076675)

~~~
zenexer
I’ve seen the email sent to aaomidi, and it didn’t say that. It’s possible
that they revised the notice after receiving complaints, but the initial batch
was worded rather harshly without any indication that it was possible to
appeal.

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tdfx
I'm a US citizen that used Slack briefly during a visit to Cuba and my
accounts are still fine. Not sure how they are targeting people.

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steve19
Can't they just block those countries at a firewall level?

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bengotow
This does seem like it'd be a much better solution... +1

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darkhorn
There is alternative, use Hipchat.

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derimagia
Hipchat is discontinued. Was announced a while ago. Their official migration
path is to move to Slack.

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Cypher
...

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anothergoogler
The State Department is a Slack user so there's that.
[https://apps.gov/products/Slack/](https://apps.gov/products/Slack/)

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mcguire
" _In a statement to website Mashable, Slack said they "prohibit unauthorized
Slack use in Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Syria and the Crimea region of Ukraine"
to comply with US regulations._"

Wait. What?

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abtinf
What are you confused by?

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mcguire
Use is prohibited _in_ those countries. The woman in the article reportedly
created her account while in Cuba years ago (presumably before this policy?)
and hasn't been back since.

She wasn't using Slack _in_ Cuba when her account was cancelled.

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abtinf
This seems pretty straightforward. It is a violation of just about every
competently written terms of service from a US company to transact business in
these countries. For a complete list, see [https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/SDN-List/...](https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/SDN-List/Pages/default.aspx) and
[https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/Programs/...](https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/Programs.aspx)

~~~
defen
Specifically, section 560.540 of the ITR authorizes the exportation from the
United States or by U.S. persons, wherever located, to persons in Iran of
services incident to the exchange of personal communications over the Intemet,
such as instant messaging, chat and email, social networking, sharing of
photos and movies, web browsing, and blogging, provided that such services are
publicly available at no cost to the user. (ITR, section 560.540(a)(1).)

