
Finland freezes arms export permits to Saudi Arabia and UAE over Yemen - ccnafr
https://thedefensepost.com/2018/11/22/finland-freezes-arms-exports-saudi-arabia-uae-yemen/
======
GordonS
Meanwhile in the UK, our leaders remain ever unscrupulous[1]. The UK is the
2nd biggest exporter of arma to Saudi, selling £1.1 billion (~$1.4 billion) of
military goods in 2017.

Why do we keep selling weapons to such a repressive regime? £1 billion is not
that much in the greater scheme of things - so what's the bigger picture that
could possible justify the UKs actions?

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/23/uk-hides-
arms-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/23/uk-hides-arms-trade-
saudi-arabia--yemen)

~~~
sys_64738
The brits probably need the hard currency given what brexit is doing to your
economy. Blame the vote leavers as I’m sure if they were to remain then the
brits would have an arms embargo to Saudi by now.

~~~
jamiegreen
What is Brexit doing to the economy in your view? So far we seem to be
experiencing wage growth, GDP growth and low inflation.

~~~
justaaron
It's going to cause breadlines, but I disagree with the OP's sentiments
expressed here. This money IN is smaller than our war expenses OUT, and it was
always so.

Arms dealers rip off the nations populations whose governments they sell arms
to.

~~~
growlist
> It's going to cause breadlines

Pure assertion.

~~~
lostlogin
> Pure assertion.

It’s also what was asked for.

> What is Brexit doing to the economy in your view?

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mrweasel
Germany and Norway already did this in October and earlier this month. Denmark
announced the same yesterday.

Honestly it doesn't matter much if the US doesn't do the same.

~~~
GordonS
Hopefully if more nations stop selling to Saudi it will put a bigger spotlight
on US arms sales - kind of shaming them into stopping.

------
sys_64738
Saudi Arabia is a terrorist sponsoring state that keeps women subservient. Why
would we sell weaponry to such as despotic country. Sheer lunacy.

~~~
tomohawk
During WW II, the US and GBR allied themselves with Russia. Russia was run by
one of the biggest mass murderers ever (#2 after Mao). He violently suppressed
any opposition and violated peoples rights with impunity. Even people who fled
to other countries, he had hunted down and killed.

Just looking at that, it makes no sense. But, looking at the bigger picture of
Japan and Germany, it made sense for a time for these democracies to ally
themselves with a monster.

Iran is controlled by monsters, and Egypt/Saudi Arabia are the primary force
opposed to them at this time.

~~~
rcMgD2BwE72F
>Iran is controlled by monsters, and Egypt/Saudi Arabia are the primary force
opposed to them at this time.

Did you visit Iran and Saudi Arabia? I'd much rather be an ordinary citizen of
the former than of the latter.

Also, one of these two countries have a far richer history and culture, and
one of the two is definitely more democratic than the other
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)).

~~~
tomohawk
In the 1930s, Germany was arguably the most cultured, best run country in the
world, and yet it was run by monsters.

~~~
craftyguy
It's quite a stretch to call the Weimar Republic the 'best run country' in the
1930s..

~~~
tomohawk
The Weimar Republic lasted until 1933. The 1936 olympics were a showcase of
Nazi ideology and a propaganda coup. Germans were very cultured and educated -
just look at all those Nobels.

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mabbo
It's a question of what your morals cost. For Finland, the cost of doing the
right thing is a few tens of millions of dollars. For America, it's billions
more. And America is willing to sell it's morals for that amount of money.

~~~
growlist
Indeed, the paltry sums involved undermine the gesture pretty much completely.
If Finland are really serious, why not stop all exports to SA?

~~~
rcMgD2BwE72F
>If Finland are really serious, why not stop all exports to SA?

Some products are primary intended to keep people alive: food, energy,
medicines…

Some other aren't: tanks, missiles…

That's why.

~~~
growlist
So then given the utterly insignificant amounts of arms Finland sells, the
impact will also be utterly insignificant. All Finland gets is the chance to
virtue signal. wow such virtue, so moral etc.

------
m23khan
We Pakistanis tried to control Afghan's politics and meddle in their domestic
affairs. And it has come back to haunt us and thankfully, (at surface level)
it seems Government and masses in Pakistan have realized not to meddle in
another Nation's affairs.

Hopefully Saudis (and Iranians) realize this as well - let Yemen be, provide
humanitarian aid to them and allow dust to be settled there. only Yemenis can
solve problems of Yemen.

Look at Somalia - 20-25 years of bloody internal conflict but now they are
starting to turn a corner. Had other Nations meddled with Somalia in the
extent similar to Afghanistan or Yemen, it would have been much worse off.

------
dorfsmay
Interesting how countries and people finally wake up to the situation in
Yemen. Interesting article about it:

[https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamal-khashoggi-
murder-...](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamal-khashoggi-murder-saudi-
arabia-yemen-civil-war-uk-arms-sales-criticism-a8610076.html)

~~~
eternalban
Reluctance to go ahead with ARAMCO IPO; surprise move on Qatar; buying S400
from Russia; neutralizing "Bandar Bush" elements; etc. Enough reason to let
the "Kingdom" know who and how the world is run.

------
redsymbol
The situation in Yemen is complex. As I understand it, the civil war
essentially started in 2014, when a group called the Houthis attempted a
military coup, to seize control of the government over the democratic election
process. These are the "rebels" referred to in the article.

Saudi Arabia has been supporting the government of Hadi, the former vice
president who became president in Yemen's 2012 election. Meanwhile, Iran has
been giving support to the Houthis. Again, the situation is complex, but it
seems to me that without SA's military support, the coup would have been
successful in seizing control of the country.

Imagine SA withdraws all military support, and the Houthis are successful in
taking over the country by force. Is the world now a better place?

Maybe. Maybe not. I sincerely don't know. But if you felt intense anger while
reading this article... I have to point out that you probably don't know,
either.

The humanitarian needs in Yemen are immense, and heartbreaking; it's the
poorest nation on the Arabian peninsula, and it's essentially run out of
water. Maybe it's better to let the coup succeed just to allow some stability
and rebuilding.

Just don't have any illusions on what you're actually supporting.

EDIT: And if you don't know what to think yet, or what's best for everyone...
be willing to say that to yourself.

~~~
tptacek
Everything is complicated, so there's no simple coherent explanation you could
have provided, but it's probably not completely valid to depict the Houthi
resistance as an anti-democratic uprising; rather, they may have started as a
political response to the Saleh administration, which in turn violently (and
anti-democratically) repressed the Houthis themselves, who militarized in
response. The Arab Spring factors heavily into this too. It's a total mess.

The one thing that does seem pretty clear in all this is that the Saudis
should not be bombing anyone in Yemen.

~~~
redsymbol
Good points.

------
justaaron
Good.

Now let's get UK, France, Spain, and the others still selling arms to the
Saudis and UAE to ALSO stop.

~~~
umichguy
The UK? Not gonna happen.

~~~
rcMgD2BwE72F
OP made an appeal, not a prediction. Of course nothing political happens if it
isn't asked for first.

