
Silicon Valley is one of the most polluted places in the country - nsnick
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/09/silicon-valley-full-superfund-sites/598531/
======
natch
Article does not even mention the Kaiser Permanente cement plant which has a
dedicated train line bringing in coal for burning, is one of the largest
sources of mercury pollution in California, and is perched right over
Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, and Los Altos, and very close to Palo
Alto and San Jose, bathing them in a haze of emissions.

All the highly educated and well connected residents, rich and powerful
corporations, and even local governments can't do anything about it, because
it is grandfathered in by federal law. It doesn't even appear on many lists of
top polluters because many people who compile such lists only include power
plants, and it is not a power plant.

It's a real world counterexample for people who say we can just turn off the
switch of things we don't like (AI being the usual such thing). Well, good
luck with that, if there are laws saying you can't... which there will be.

~~~
kayfox
This plant:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanente_Quarry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanente_Quarry)

Which is not owned by Kaiser Permanente?

~~~
goda90
It was founded by Henry Kaiser and named Kaiser Permanente Cement Plant after
the Permanente Creek which flowed past it. It has since changed names. Kaiser
Permanente the healthcare organization was named after the same creek. So
calling it the Kaiser Permanente Cement Plant is outdated, but it's not saying
that the healthcare organization owns it.

~~~
foxyv
Yes! The KP HMO has history with but is not owned by the Kaiser industrial
companies. It was essentially setup by Sidney Garfield at the behest of Henry
Kaiser and the help of FDR to treat workers at the Kaiser shipyards, hence the
name. It's a not for profit organization completely distinct from other Kaiser
organizations. Funny enough I'm pretty sure at $79 billion yearly, it grosses
more than it's industrial namesakes.

[https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/our-story/our-
history/how...](https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/our-story/our-history/how-
it-all-started)

------
herostratus101
This is still the best essay I have read on the topic:
[http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20130404/in-search-
of-...](http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20130404/in-search-of-the-
cookie-dough-tree/)

I've left Silicon Valley since I read it. And having read it, I hope to never
move back.

~~~
xvector
This is horribly frightening. What can I do at home to detect (or even
continuously monitor) the presence of Superfund chemicals?

~~~
nostrademons
There's a pretty good map here:

[https://www.nbcbayarea.com/brchannel/Map-The-Chemical-
Legacy...](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/brchannel/Map-The-Chemical-Legacy-of-
Silicon-Valley-258950021.html)

TCE has a distinctive smell - sweet, like cookie dough or donuts. You'll know
if you're in an area contaminated by it - I've smelled it at the Google Quad
campus and some of the residential areas around it. (The area around Evandale
is particularly bad, I've smelled it just driving through some of the
residential streets there.) Some of the other chemicals used in semicoductor
manufacture are odorless, though.

Most of the contamination is in industrial or office park zones, so I'd be
more worried about your workplace than your home, and many of the spills are
plain old gasoline (from service stations) which you can have anywhere.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
Slightly OT: Meanwhile in Hamburg, Germany, at the construction site of the
eastern Hafencity

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafencity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafencity)
[https://osm.org/go/0HoGuvP~t--?m=](https://osm.org/go/0HoGuvP~t--?m=)

they inject something into the compacted sand of the former quays/piers which
makes you think you are getting high. At least it smells like electrical
insulating paint i had to work with a long time ago. Open the drum and hold
your breath, or get dizzy.

Was a few weeks ago, in the middle of the night while i was on S/Nightseeing
tour. Two large tractors with large liquid trailers which had centipede-like
appendages on each side, maybe 10 to 12 "legs" and fully automated. Stop, ram
the legs into the ground and loudly squirt a minute or so, move on, repeat.
The whole area _stank_! Never seen or heard of something like this before.
Apparently it's called _Geo Injection_ to stabilize the ground, or impregnate
against water. Nothing about this in the local media at all.

I'm suspicious. Why in the middle of the night at 2 to 3 AM?

A few days ago i've been on tour again, also during the night, maybe
7km/4.35miles downstream while the Elbe was at low tide. Same intense smell,
though no construction site in sight.

------
CaliforniaKarl
A related example from last year, near Page Mill Road:
[https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2018/03/01/stanford-
sues...](https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2018/03/01/stanford-sues-hp-
companies-agilent-over-toxic-contamination)

And an entertaining rant by a UC Berkeley Health Physicist, on D&D
(Decontamination & Demolition):
[http://www.funraniumlabs.com/2019/05/a-stream-of-
consciousne...](http://www.funraniumlabs.com/2019/05/a-stream-of-
consciousness-rant-on-dd-projects/)

~~~
gnicholas
FYI, the location near Page Mill Road is where Facebook used to have their
headquarters. Stanford did took various remediation measures when they
converted the property into faculty housing, but IDK if the FB buildings were
adequately protected/ventilated. My understanding is that the vapors are only
harmful if they get into buildings and are not adequately ventilated. Stanford
put vapor guards under each home they built, among other things.

------
gnicholas
Fun fact: Facebook's old headquarters (between Page Mill Rd and California
Ave) was located on top of a superfund site. After FB moved to Menlo Park,
Stanford built a faculty housing development there. They claim that they have
done adequate retrofitting so that it poses no risk to residents, but I know
some professors in the sciences who decided against living there after reading
the environmental disclosures.

Also, if Stanford did this retrofitting, that implies that maybe FB did not do
enough when they were there?

The housing disclosures have more info on the contamination and retrofitting:
[https://universityterrace.stanford.edu/disclosures](https://universityterrace.stanford.edu/disclosures)

------
DrScump
One of the worst was right across 10th St. from Solar4America Ice (formerly
the San Jose Ice Center, home training facility of the Sharks).

------
H8crilA
I wonder how many such Superfund sites we already have in mainland China (I
mean from a factual standpoint, not from a government reporting standpoint).
The Chinese government is so out of control over the situation that,
nominally, environmental pollution can be punished with death.

~~~
onion2k
I'm sure the residents of Santa Clara and the workers in various campuses will
rest more easily knowing that _actually, there are much more polluted places
globally._

Its not a competition. The article is saying SV is badly polluted. Pointing
out that China might be worse just means there's another problem; that's
redundant information in the context of talking about SV.

~~~
mieseratte
> Its not a competition.

No one said it was, and nothing said detracts from SV. I think it's an
interesting question I wouldn't have otherwise thought about. Fifty years from
now will China be talking about the same environmental issues we're talking
about now? Will it be better or worse?

------
bcaa7f3a8bbc
Nobody remembers the Commodore Semiconductor Group? Commodore was a pioneer in
personal computing, semiconductor and environmental accidents. In 1974, there
was a massive leak of the 250-gallon underground concrete storage tank full of
TCE, and today the site is still monitored by the EPA. Bill Herd, the chief
engineering of Commodore 128, mentioned in his interview that the day he went
to work, he didn't know the tank leaked and parked at the wrong side of the
company, and his car was completely contaminated.

[https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0...](https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0301146&msspp=med)

------
chrisdhoover
Oh no, I worked in two different offices located on superfund sites. Probably
a third too but I haven’t found supporting evidence yet.

------
jwr
So, a story about SV being polluted has 156 points right now, and sits nicely
in the middle of the front page. It's an important story, apparently.

Meanwhile, Nature's story about climate change (The hard truths of climate
change — by the numbers) got flagged and disappeared quickly:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21042101](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21042101)

There is no better way to show what "tech bubble" means.

~~~
corodra
Eh, I don't think "tech bubble" is appropriate to nail down the problems.
Egotism and hubris, along with thinking being above the rest of society is the
problem. And to be fair, it shows up here in HN too. There's a weird mentality
of "Well I'm smart in _computers and programming_ , that automatically makes
me an expert in civil infrastructure, economic theory, social support
programs, agriculture, etc". I mean, seriously, it's really weird and it's
happening constantly. It's like a lot of this "revolutionary SV agriculture
startups". They're bunk and retarded. They're just 1940s-1970s research
projects without ever citing or learning from trails already blazed. They act
like "No one has ever researched how to grow food, here I come to rescue with
my power of programming and social media posts! Venture capital firms, I'm
ready for money!" Not a single one realizes that a lot of large scale,
efficient and affordable farming practices were pioneered by people like
Norman Borlaug. But they "draw inspiration" from a random SV ceo. Just pisses
me off.

Plus, "The people's voice matters. We must democratize everything... as long
as they only agree with me."

Reality is, silicon valley is not really different from the old titans of
industry. One difference, the old assholes were upfront "You need something, I
hire people to make it, and I'm in it for the money." The valley, "I'm here
for you. You giving me your money is the best way to make the world a better
place through [insert _disruptive_ product]. You'll be happy with a lighter
wallet. We're going to save the world together."

~~~
bavell
I agree with your overall perception of SV as an outsider myself. There are
very smart people doing big things alongside starry-eyed naive people doing
silly things. Sometimes it's a blurry line between the two and sometimes I
can't help but facepalm at some of the stories I hear coming out of SV...

~~~
corodra
Well, let's be honest about the "intelligent" part. Sure, there are some
brilliant computer engineers out in SV. But would you say they're necessarily
smart financial planners? The cost of living in a lot of parts of Cali in
generally are ridiculous and some of the most expensive in the country. A lot
of SV companies complain that there are not enough capable programmers in the
area. Well, if a 50k-70k salary in other parts of the country gets you a
decent sized house, a car, cheaper food and cheaper well... everything. While
a 120k in SV gets you a studio apartment and reliant on public transpo... I
mean, what makes more sense? God have mercy if you have kids.

So if you have a segment of engineers who believe living in SV is "smart"
financially... do you really want them to make opinions on government
spending? I'm not saying that "people not living in Cali" are instantly money
smart. But, you don't quickly take financial advice from a friend that's gone
bankrupt twice, is always in crippling debt due to overspending and throws
money at ideas largely based on keywords.

I guess my long drawn out rant is just the problem where lots of folks
consider SV "smart". Thus they're allowed to have an affecting opinion on
things they're truly not "smart" about.

~~~
MegaButts
> The cost of living in a lot of parts of Cali in generally are ridiculous and
> some of the most expensive in the country.

A lot of these arguments could be made about New York, specifically Manhattan.
There are people there that can genuinely afford it, and there are people that
struggle financially because they want to be there (for whatever reason).

There are obviously lots of people in the Bay Area struggling to make ends
meet, including some software engineers. But the reality is most talented
people here are so well-paid it's not an issue. You're talking about $120k
salaries, I'm talking about $100k _signing bonuses_. Of course the average
engineer here isn't swimming in money, but there are plenty of people who make
so much more money here that it's a wise financial decision to stay.
Personally I ran the numbers and I put more money in my savings every year
here than I would anywhere else.

I completely agree with the general sentiment that software engineers in
particular suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect and I regularly have to
explain to engineers that the world outside of software is not so neatly
contained. But the notion that most software engineers here are not smart
because they choose to live somewhere expensive is irrelevant if you aren't
also talking about how much more money they make to live here.

