

The Zen Programmer - Who828
http://www.zenprogrammer.org/

======
lispylol
Does anyone feel like a book by a non-zen expert that attempts to teach
something as deep and ancient as zen through programming analogies actually
does more harm than good? It teaches neither programming nor zen, and may
contain a number of cherry-picked principles that are devoid of the context
necessary for understanding.

I think it would be awesome of someone wrote book about very specific
processes that they were able to come up with as a result of practicing some
philosophy, and leave the actual teaching of the philosophy to an expert.

~~~
grobmeier
This book is containing my own story with Zen. How did it change me personally
and how does my daily work life looks like. What have I understood from it.
And so on. Actually the book contains the result of my practice. Inside the
book you'll find many references to the actual original texts where you can
read more about it.

You wrote "may contain" and "it does not". You simply don't know whats inside
the book if you haven't read it.

Instead of assuming what the book is about or not, I invite you to just read
it. If you are not happy with it I will refund you. Or if you buy it on
Leanpub they will refund you according to their 100% happiness guarantee (on
Leanpub you have even a bit more time to read the book).

Here is the book on Leanpub:
[https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer](https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer)

Here is the happiness guarantee:
[https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer#happiness_guarantee](https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer#happiness_guarantee)

There is no risk for you. When you have read it I am happy about your email if
you liked it or not and if you actually see any harm in it.

~~~
lispylol
My comment wasn't purely speculative. That would be unfair. It contains the
thoughts that I had after reading your sample.

Here's one excerpt

 _Kôdô Sawaki says: if you need to sleep, sleep. Don’t plan your software when
you are trying to sleep. Just sleep. If you code, code. Don’t daydream—code.
If you are so tired that you cannot program, sleep. Even known multitaskers
like Stephan Uhrenbacher have decided to work singlethreaded_

Who's Sawaki? Who's Uhrenbacher? This is what I mean by missing context. Now
that I think about it, some of the criticism (mine included) may be due to the
fact that you picked the final chapter to represent a sample. You pretty much
gave away the ending, and we have no clue how you got there.

~~~
grobmeier
Sawaki is a known Zen Master. He didn't write texts on his own; his books are
just quotes collected by his students. The internet is full with information
on him.

Stephan Uhrenbacher is linked in the original blog post:
[http://www.grobmeier.de/the-10-rules-of-a-zen-
programmer-030...](http://www.grobmeier.de/the-10-rules-of-a-zen-
programmer-03022012.html)

The "10 rules" post is the beginning, not the end.

------
adricnet
That does look interesting but it might be too philosophical for many hackers.
I would instead recommend _Time Management for Sysadmins_ , Tim Lemoncelli,
O'Reilly and _Pragmatic Thinking and Learning_ , Andy Hunt, PragProg. Both are
interesting and helpful but much more practical, especially TMSA, which I
should dust off and re-read.

[http://everythingsysadmin.com/books.html](http://everythingsysadmin.com/books.html)

[http://pragprog.com/book/ahptl/pragmatic-thinking-and-
learni...](http://pragprog.com/book/ahptl/pragmatic-thinking-and-learning)

~~~
grobmeier
The ZP book is not about time management.

~~~
300bps
For someone who never heard of you, your book or "zen programming" before,
there is not enough information either here or on your site to make a purchase
decision.

I would respectfully ask a few questions. Who are you? Why are you qualified
to write a programming book? Why are you qualified to write a "zen
programming" book? How long have you been a programmer? What concrete things
will someone who studies the book get out of it?

I read the intro of the site, the description of the book on the site, the
testimonials and the Ten Rules of a Zen Programmer and still don't know the
answers to these questions other than seeming platitudes.

~~~
grobmeier
Thank you for your constructive feedback.

I will add a few paragraphs with more information when I find a few minutes.

Please note, if you would buy the book and if you are not happy with it I will
fully refund you (see terms). This is also the case when you purchase at
Leanpub.

------
byw
Looks interesting, but it would be great if there's an example chapter or two.

~~~
grobmeier
Try that:
[http://www.zenprogrammer.org/en/the10rulesofazenprogrammer.h...](http://www.zenprogrammer.org/en/the10rulesofazenprogrammer.html)

------
lcbiazon
Table of contents -
[https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer](https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer)
Sample chapter -
[http://www.zenprogrammer.org/en/the10rulesofazenprogrammer.h...](http://www.zenprogrammer.org/en/the10rulesofazenprogrammer.html)

------
tinco
"This book will teach you that there are more than just emails, phone calls,
and urgent issues."

There are more what? Or did you mean to write 'there is more'? In any case,
it's a weak statement. Of course there's more, what about just programming?

The only information I get from that introductory paragraph is that the book
is about saying no to certain things in a zen way.

~~~
grobmeier
Thank you.

I will try to improve the section.

------
apetrov
just bought it and now it says:
[https://www.evernote.com/shard/s8/sh/aee8a9f9-e438-4b6d-9051...](https://www.evernote.com/shard/s8/sh/aee8a9f9-e438-4b6d-9051-ccf272b240c4/ca62024eee2ae8bd4edfb9fb19c77828)

~~~
grobmeier
Hello, i fixed that. Please try again. Sorry for the issue!

~~~
apetrov
cool thanks! works perfectly fine!

~~~
grobmeier
Great :-)

------
jes
I appreciate the sample text, thank you.

In it I found this advice:

'Kôdô Sawaki once said: “You are not important.”

Think about it.'

Why should a person consider himself unimportant? What actions would follow
from a person who truly does not value himself or herself?

~~~
leke
Perhaps spontaneous ones?

------
f4stjack
um... I am very interested in the book but apart from a vague description I
have no idea what it says. A table of contents would be very useful to
extrapolate what I can grok from it maybe?

~~~
grobmeier
You are right, I will include a TOC to the page. Meanwhile, you can see it
here:
[https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer](https://leanpub.com/thezenprogrammer)

~~~
mduncan
I've been lurking on HN for 4+ years, don't comment, and have only 3 karma.
I'm breaking radio silence to say I've just purchased your book and very much
look forward to reading it in full. From what I've skimmed this really meshes
well with a direction I have been trending in myself and I just wanted to give
you a vote of confidence and congratulations on getting the book out into the
wild. I hope you are not too put off by the reactionary backlash here on HN.
For a site ostensibly about new tech perspectives, I find the commenting
culture of this site often puzzling.

~~~
grobmeier
Thanks a lot! Actually I was a bit concerned on a few comments here.

------
nticompass
Is this book digital only, or can I get an actual printed copy?

~~~
grobmeier
Currently it is digital only. I am preparing a physical copy via Createspace
(Amazon). I am planning to give vouchers for the physical copy to the buyers
of the ebook but I haven't figured out if this is supported by Createspace or
not. The ebook comes as PDF which you should be able to print on your own at
Lulu.com too, if you like.

~~~
nticompass
Thanks. Call me old fashioned, but I like to read actual books versus my
computer/tablet. I am interested in the book, and will probably buy a copy. It
would be nice to be able to get a physical copy in the future :-)

~~~
grobmeier
I understand you - I own a lot of books myself. Personally I am not sure if I
would buy Zen related e-books. However I am preparing the book to work with
CreateSpace. If you would like to get notified join the mailing list at
zenprogrammer.org or follow @zenprog. Thanks anyway for you comment. It
motivates me to push the physical issue :-)

------
minussohn
Sind Probekapitel vorhanden?

~~~
vladtaltos
holly crap - I know kung-fu

~~~
devlablt
show me

------
polarix
The sample chapter really drives home what I dislike about Zen. It's taking
this cute little ego thing and trying to lure it into a trap. Hah! That'll
show it. Cut off its tail! Clever!

Rather, I prefer the more direct Advaita Vedanta approach: quickly smother it
with napalm.

