
Why women leave tech: It's the culture, not because 'math is hard' - prostoalex
http://fortune.com/2014/10/02/women-leave-tech-culture/
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Someone1234
Article should be titled: "Why parents leave tech: It's the culture"

That "not because 'math is hard'" part is extremely trolly and click-baiting.
Also kind of sexist (as the article itself is making that implication out of
the blue). It is also never touched upon in the article (i.e. that isn't a
real quote, just a fiction for the title's own sake).

I actually like the article, and agree with many of its points and
conclusions. I dislike the title of the article very much.

I will say that many of the criticisms layed out in this article to tech's
culture could equally be laid at the feed of almost every other non-child-
related industry.

The lack of work-life-balance and or flexibility is a huge recurring problem
for all parents with young children. I highly doubt tech' is the worst
offender in this area, however it is fine to discuss it in the context of
tech' as it remains a legitimate gripe (and frankly I can see tech' being a
progressive enough industry to fix some of this).

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cpncrunch
I worked for a lot of tech companies in the UK, and all the companies had
women project managers and developers without any discrimination that I could
see (I'm male). It probably helps that the UK has mandatory maternity leave,
and the company must employ you again after you come back from leave. I now
live in Canada, and it has similar maternity benefits.

Basically the problem is that you live in a country where people are scared
shitless of socialism so mothers get fuck all when they have a baby.

Any decent employer should give you reasonable benefits over and above what is
required by law (i.e. nothing), and if they tell you that you should be
wearing your beeper while on leave you really should tell them to fuck off.

~~~
wahern
The U.S. has mandatory maternity leave as well. The problem isn't getting time
off of work.

The problem is that you don't get paid. The problem is that you don't get a
salary increase because your managers, knowing you're a recent mother, have
expectations that your productivity will drop more than a man with a newborn.

It looks like the U.K. has solved the getting paid part, though:
[https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-leave/pay](https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-
leave/pay)

Slate.com is running a series of articles where women from various European
countries discuss maternity issues. The purpose is to shed light on European
vs American experiences. The U.S. is behind the curve, but not by as much as
you'd think.

~~~
prostoalex
Ukraine mandates paid leave, which can be extended for up to 3 years (with
partial pay), which created an unintended consequence - it's extremely hard
for a young woman to get hired, and it's next to impossible for a young woman
with a hint of pregnancy to get a job.

There are anti-discrimination laws, but proving anything in court beyond
reasonable doubt is time-, money- and energy-consuming.

------
chillingeffect
"Everyone was the same, and no one was like me. How could I stay in that
situation?"

I don't sympathize with this viewpoint.

~~~
forkmeongithub
Why not?

~~~
wahern
Have you ever lived in a foreign country? Specifically one where the culture
is drastically different, or where your ethnicity stands out?

I have. And it can be draining, no matter your constitution, and even without
any identifiable prejudice directed at you. It's part of human nature.

Civilization takes work. Things like democracy don't simply pop into
existence. It takes an evolution of culture. Male-dominated workplaces need to
meet women somewhere in the middle. I think the present situation is unfair,
particularly because there are all sorts of men who simply cry, "but why do I
have to change my behavior!? "I was here first, and nothing I'm doing is
intrinsically wrong!" Those people just don't get it.

~~~
forkmeongithub
I agree with you that things like this take work. But I also feel like it's
sentiments like the parent comment that lead to the problem in the first
place. Like you mentioned, male-dominated workplaces need to meet women in the
middle, but how is that possible when they are completely unsympathetic, as
the above comment seems to be?

~~~
ninavizz
It's not about sympathy, rather its about empathy. And listening. And
mindfulness. Not skills the "ninja coder rockstar" person in their 20s, is
likely to either have naturally, or to seek cultivation of. These are cultural
problems, not of one "ism" or another.

Problems that are also in part born from young STEM academic over-achievers
leaping from mid-degree coursework, and into the fast-paced world of
startuptopia. The gap skipped over, is that one of the slower, social &
personal-growth experience college life rigors our emotional skills through.
That humanities coursework gives us tools of insight into the human condition,
to work from. That shitty part-time jobs in food service or retail, teach us
how to have a work ethic and value the work of others, through all involved
parties being paid degradingly low wages, doing shit work for uncaring
managers, but then relishing what little bits of wonder the crappy paychecks
make possible after all the personal-growth the humbling work done for them,
made subconsciously possible.

We need to all pause from the hustle and bustle of doing things as quickly as
possible and with as much risk and for as much money as we each feel we can
shoulder. We need to make room to prioritize mindfulness, listening, and just
simple human humility. It's not all about people like us. Or, them. We are in
this, together.

He who dies with the most toys, is simply dead. Not winning.

