
Flipping the Script on Recruiters - markhenderson
http://npnd.com/blog/2015/2/4/from-pull-to-push-flipping-the-script-on-technical-recruiters
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zedpm
This is an interesting approach that I might adopt, if only because my
ordinary interactions with recruiters have been so wretched. It can hardly be
worse than my results thus far.

The behavior of recruiters is puzzling to me. I've repeatedly been contacted
by recruiters who want to talk to me about opportunities at X (where X has
been Amazon, Google, and a few others). I've responded to these and then
received no further contact from the recruiter. They go to the trouble of
making a pitch to me and then disappear when their pitch is well-received. My
only guess is that they're operating like a telemarketer, spamming the message
out to some large number of people to ensure they get a few responses and
ignoring any extras.

Just last week a Google recruiter contacted me and gave me a link to his
calendar to schedule an appointment. I made the appointment and he no-showed.
He later contacted me and said he'd spent the day at a conference he received
a last-minute invite to attend. I'm just astounded that these folks treat
people with such contempt, given that it reflects poorly on them and the
business they're associated with.

~~~
qeorge
As I understand it, the problem is this:

Joe Random Recruiter can decide one day that he is a recruiter for
Google/Twitter/FB/anyone else. He doesn't need or obtain their permission - he
just starts firing out emails to everyone he can find on i.e., LinkedIn.

The email says something like: "My client, {Google, Facebook, etc}, is looking
for someone with {one of your skills}. Are you interested?"

If you reply yes, he then sends an email to {Google, Facebook, etc} and says:

"I'm representing an engineer with {your skills} at {outrageous price
including fat commission}. Are you interested?"

Assuming they are in fact interested in you (which they likely are),
Google/Facebook/etc is now in a tough position.

\- Google/FB/etc can say YES, pay the fat commission to the recruiter, and
give you the job. You think the recruiter is a gift from heaven.

\- Google/FB/etc can say NO, and the recruiter will just tell you they flaked,
the opportunity disappeared, or just never contact you again.

The twist is that if Google/FB/etc says NO, the you will end up with a bad
impression of THEM, not Joe Random Recruiter. They don't even know your name,
with which they could reach out and explain.

Google/FB/etc know this, and as an engineer you are (currently) so valuable
that they are (currently) forced to play ball.

And unfortunately, since this method actually works, we see more "recruiters"
popping up every day. Even worse, the bad ones are the most aggresive, and
they drown out the honest players.

My advice to the Googles/FBs/Twitters of the world: make a page listing the
firms you DO work with, just as you list the IP ranges of your crawlers. Not a
great idea, but its all I've come up with.

My advice to the job seekers of this world: cut them some slack - you probably
didn't ever actually talk to Google/Facebook/etc, or at least they were
misinformed about you.

~~~
sanderjd
You seem to have a good grasp on this, so I'll ask you: why are things set up
such that recruiters are "Joe Random Recruiter" to me, rather than "Joe, who I
have met, worked with across multiple job switches, and who relies on my
trust"?

~~~
bcbrown
Whenever you have a good interaction with a recruiter, tell them that, and
tell them that you'd like to build a relationship and contact them every time
you begin a job search. The good ones will be receptive.

~~~
chrisbennet
I think it is common for agencies to have Non Compete clauses such that if
your favorite recruiter goes someplace else, they aren't allowed to represent
you for a certain period.

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ottertown
There seems to be in this thread (and on HN in general) a lack of empathy for
the recruiter.

Here's my perspective on (internal) recruiters as someone who sits next to
them at an office:

1\. Recruiters tend to be really nice people.

2\. All day long they talk about prospects with other recruiters almost as if
they were talking about potential romantic partners. Except replace any
discussion of your physical characteristics with your intellectual / linkedin
characteristics. It would be weird if it weren't their job.

3\. If a recruiter sends you an InMail, if you reply back (no matter what the
response) it helps them as each unanswered InMail costs them money (they don't
get to reuse it).

4\. Their job is really hard (especially for finding developers), and they are
under a ton of pressure, especially when a company is growing, to build head
count. Investors really value head count growth heading into a Series B /
Series C round of funding.

So, consequently, I would recommend that devs cut recruiters some slack. Be
grateful we live in a time where our greatest annoyance is someone contacting
us with a job opportunity.

It wasn't always like this and it probably won't be forever.

~~~
pronoiac
Isn't the dislike for external recruiters? They can be wildly variable in
quality - spamming by keywords, regardless of geographic areas. And the _good_
ones may _overprepare,_ asking questions that the company won't.

Edit: oh yeah. Sudden radio silence. Adding bogus resume tidbits. Posting
bogus jobs, just to pump their contact numbers in the database.

I see a _lot_ more _bad_ external recruiters than good.

~~~
Blackthorn
I've had sudden radio silence so much, even after talking to them on the
phone. I don't understand because sure they wasted my time, but now they're
wasting _their_ time too!

------
mocko
For an illustration of just how dishonest, lazy and rude IT recruiters can be
check out [http://shit-it-recruiters-say.tumblr.com/](http://shit-it-
recruiters-say.tumblr.com/). Yes, at least in the UK they really are that bad.

------
nfriedly
I started just replying with a "No thanks, but I'll hang onto your info in
case anything changes or I come across anyone else who's looking", and then I
add their email to a "recruiters" contact list in Gmail.

I now have close to 300 folks split between internal/external/vc. I haven't
needed to use the list yet, but I have shared it with one or two friends who
were interested in changing jobs.

~~~
markhenderson
That's great! I like the stats that an email vendor provides. :)

------
jkochis
I like this. I know that recruiters are something a lot of us have to deal
with, and most of the time they are an annoyance. This approach sounds like it
could save a lot of wasted time for both of us. That said, I realize I don't
know much about the business of being a recruiter, and I wonder what their
perspective might be.

~~~
markhenderson
Yeah. I would actually _love_ to hear their point of view on this. Surely they
don't like cold calling and emailing all day but also there might be a lot we
don't know about as the talent.

------
cheriot
This would be an interesting twist on a job board. After reaching critical
mass, charge recruiters to see the updates. They get a pool of people they
already qualified when they're actually looking and developers get more
control over the process.

~~~
jkochis
Wow. Charging someone to help you find a job. Now that's really flipping the
script!

~~~
cheriot
I was thinking that the job board would get all of the money, but revenue
sharing with the developers would be even more interesting! The amounts paid
to external recruiters in this industry are insane...

~~~
organsnyder
Aren't you basically describing a (better) LinkedIn?

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copsarebastards
All the independent recruiters in my area have an autoresponder set up in my
GMail that tells them politely that I don't work with their kind because the
incentive structure of their business creates quantity of matches over
quality.

I'm happy to receive interest from recruiters who work for the companies
they're recruiting for, though.

------
GBKS
I like the proactive approach. Just yesterday, I went to an IXDA breakfast
event and some recruiters showed up. Some people were just annoyed by their
presence, but I thought it was a good opportunity to talk. They were pretty
new to the industry, so I gave them pointers about how supporting the
community by sponsoring events, organizing talks at companies they are hiring
for, telling better stories about the companies they are hiring for, etc could
get them better results than the usual cold-emailing.

I just think that if you don't like how they are doing things, give them
pointers. Won't work everywhere, but sometimes it will, and that will be worth
it.

------
snambi
Nice idea.

