
Google Chrome: Bad news for Adobe - raganwald
http://counternotions.com/2008/09/03/badnews/
======
mdasen
So, basically, Google is adding more wight to open-source web efforts and
that's confounding those that would like to put the web into their proprietary
box.

A good amount of the commentary over the past couple days has been about what
Chrome means for other open-source projects. It's nice to see an article whose
premise (as I saw it) was that Chrome's arrival signals the triumph of the
open web rather than competition for current open web products (Safari and
Firefox). Sure, some Firefox users may switch to Chrome, but as long as the
browsers are open source and have a commitment to standards (HTML, Javascript,
CSS), it works out in favor of the open web and all those who are creating the
open web (whether they be website programmers/designers or open-source browser
makers).

~~~
partoa
True, if one were to describe I.T. innovation trends in two words they'd say
"Creative Destruction" (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction>)
in this case it's not exactly Google creates Adobe is destroyed, in my take,
it's more like Google creates, Firefox/IE/Safari/Opera is destroyed. But I
have to admit that Open Source projects are very responsive and, consequently,
we may see a response from Firefox soon.

What I do admit is that at the end of the day, it's the consumer's experience
that counts and, whoever makes the product that works the best for the
consumer deserves to win, although victory is not promised. Look at Opera. So,
is Google Chrome good for Open Source? If they open source the browser, hell
yeah, otherwise, I'll be the skeptic.

Note: Chromium is not Google Chrome, it's PR.

If I were Steve Ballmer, I'd get John Lilly and Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner
on my speed dial, right now.

I for one, begrudgingly, welcome our new browser overlords.

~~~
lacker
Why is Chromium just PR? You can build it yourself and run it.

see: <http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/getting-started>

My impression was they packaged it separately to make it easy to have Google-
owned icons, etc in the Google Chrome download.

~~~
partoa
It's not that you can't build it, it's not that it's not Open Source, but it's
still PR, here's why.

I'll use the comparison of Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise, or openSuse and
Suse. These are truly open source. If you are going to base your proprietary
technology on an Open Source project, please build the Open Source version and
distribute it if you are building the Proprietary one, otherwise, you don't
want people to actually use the Open Source version, it just means you have a
good PR consultant and you don't mind "free help".

I bet you $100 they got the idea from a focus group, and Google Chrome has
things that Chromium doesn't.

------
Herring
After my experience trying to get flash on ubuntu ppc, i'll take just about
anything that hurts Adobe.

~~~
eznet
As much as I hate to agree with such a malicious statement, I do have to agree
that Adobe has not helped their case for community support in their lack-
luster support for the Linux and open source communities.

I have used Adobe products for many, many years and have used Flash since it
was a Macromedia product and can say that some of the interesting things done
with the internet in its earlier days would have likely not been possible
without Flash. On the other hand, as a developer and a FOSS user, I am ready
for another tool to accomplish what Flash does without all the headaches that
we have been forced to endure over the years with flash and proprietary plug-
ins in general...

~~~
stcredzero
If Google also pushed/developed some open media player and animation
technologies and integrated these into Javascript or into browsers, why would
we need Silverlight and Air at all?

~~~
partoa
Actually, all they have to do is make their Lively "plugin" work from all
websites and you would have your animation technology. Why the had to keep
this one to themselves I don't know, but I'm glad they did because it leaves
that opportunity available to some other innovative organization.

------
jhickner
Some good points, but the reality is that flash is still the most painless RIA
platform, due to a mature IDE, the complete lack of cross-browser issues to
deal with, and cross-platform market penetration greater than any single
browser.

Chrome benefits flash as much as js/ajax, as well. In my tests, flash executes
faster in chrome than firefox. And flash can take advantage of the possibility
of a larger installed based of gears as well.

It's sort of a win/win for everyone.

------
josefresco
I'm less concerned about competition for Flash/Flex and Air than I am
competition for the over-priced and bloated CS3.

~~~
allenbrunson
amen.

due to a project i'm working on, i was recently pretty much forced to become a
flash developer. 700 bucks is an awful lot to pay for flash cs3, but i'd be
willing to pay it, if it made my job easier. alas, it was the worst piece of
software i've ever installed on my mac. eighty billion buttons and toolbars
and palettes and menus, which completely takes over the screen, making it
impossible to find what i'm looking for.

i found a way to make do with the open-source flex sdk compiler, even though
adobe has gone far out of their way to make that difficult. for example, the
.swf file format is free and open, but the .fla format -- used to store gui
controls and layouts -- is not. so i've decided not to use flash gui controls.
me and my cohorts are using javascript controls instead.

~~~
snorkel
Therein lays the problem. If Adobe would release an affordable version of
Flash, or if any of the open source SWF compilers out there could keep up with
the latest Actionscript specs, then more developers would get hooked on it.
But I guess Adobe is fat, dumb, and happy with cornering the market on
graphics tools that it doesn't need to concern itself too much about growing
the Flash developer community. Adobe should think it over because the growing
popularity of <canvas> and next generation HTML is going to take large chunks
of mindshare away from Flash development.

~~~
allenbrunson
i think adobe's position is: if they completely opened up the flash format,
then they couldn't make any money off of it. they give away the player for
free, so they make their money from the developer tools. if they opened up the
.fla format, then they'd get killed by competitors, because flash cs3 sucks.

so it wouldn't help them any to grow the flash platform, if they lose their
ability to make money off of it.

------
metatronscube
Which is good news for us all really!...im fine with hurting Adobe.

------
kajecounterhack
Chrome is a browser...and flash is a plugin for browsers.

Lets look at it this way: I highly doubt "javascript games" (I think I've seen
ONE, and it was from here in fact,) will come and take over flash games. In
the same way, javascript can't overtake flash in many aspects.

Flash will inevitably (if Chrome wants to be a widely used browser) be
compatible with the Chrome browser. And people will use it and life will go
on. Chrome does not in any way affect what happens to flash.

Silverlight on the other hand, is a piece of shit because Mac adoption rate is
quickly picking up, because people like ME use LINUX, and because none of us
were able to watch the fucking silverlight videos on NBC for the olympics.

That makes me just a tad angry.

------
noobster
Isn't Google chrome just a browser? How can this be a threat to a runtime like
AIR? Looks like the author is trying to compare a runtime with browser. Does
that make any sense? Please correct me if i am wrong.

~~~
furiouslol
It does actually. If you are thinking of offline-enabling your web app, you
are more likely to do it with Gears rather than AIR, if Chrome is installed on
90% of the computers

~~~
huherto
"Chrome is installed in 90% of the computers" is a big if. Still, I like the
idea.

~~~
furiouslol
You won't actually need to wait for that. I read somewhere that Gears is based
on the HTML 5 specs. So once the other browsers go about supporting HTML 5,
there's no need for Gears/AIR if you need offline capability.

~~~
Raphael
But IE won't support HTML 5 any time soon.

------
chaostheory
to me there's only one problem for Chrome, that I haven't figured out how
Google is going to solve: distribution

AIR is being distributed through Adobe Reader and Flash is pretty much
ubiquitous (whether you like it or not). Silverlight can sneak in via MS
Office.

What MS and Adobe have in common is that normal people outside of the valley
already grab 'x' software (whether they know it or not), while the only thing
normal people do with Google is go to their search engine...

~~~
davidw
> to me there's only one problem for Chrome, that I haven't figured out how
> Google is going to solve: distribution

A link on www.google.com might reach a few people.

~~~
chaostheory
yes but will they install it? Installing something is very different from just
visiting a web site.

How many people use Google's toolbar vs Flash (or MS Office)?

~~~
netcan
Well this is the challenge. Chrome needs to be compelling for 'normal people.'
As you say that's not easy.

Most 'normal people' haven't tried Firefox on someone else's machine & said 'I
want this not that.' In fact, many are still on IE 6. So the bar for
'compelling' is high. You need someone who does not find the difference
between IE6 & FF compelling to find Chrome compelling. Big call.

FF got to >15% on that sort of steam without much marketing (but still some).
Google can probably out-market Mozilla.

------
dbrush
Chrome will probably not be shipped standard on any of the millions of Linux
based MIDs in the next few quarters that AIR will.

------
mchristoff
i think this whole flash killer stuff is still overblown. 1 word: video. how
about another: sound.

adobe has a strangehold on web-media and that's not changing anytime soon.

truthfully as a geek i'm excited about chrome, but as a web developer annoyed
that now I need to test with another browser.

------
mhb
The Olympic videos available at nbcolympics.com using Silverlight are
beautiful - large, high res and fast.

