
Torchlight art assets stolen, used in iOS game Armed Heroes - ukdm
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/torchlight-art-assets-stolen-used-in-ios-game-armed-heroes-20120717/
======
tptacek
"Stolen"? What do you mean, "stolen"? Torchlight still has its assets, right?
That's not "stolen"!

~~~
vibrunazo
I'm a game developer. I dream about the day the gaming industry could move
forward these silly slap-fights and actually work together on reusable assets
for everyone, free of IP. (in fact, that's one of the motivations behind my
startup)

While I don't like that Armed Heroes used other's copyrighted work without
permission. It's sad that these assets were not released under Creative
Commons in the first place. Armed Heroes should've taken the "high road" and
released their own assets under CC instead of using other's. IMHO, those who
are hypocrite on this subject are simply missing the bigger picture.

~~~
unconed
If everyone used the same assets, games would all have the same blandness. No
thank you.

~~~
tikhonj
One nice thing about free assets is that you would be able to modify and remix
them. So you could take some existing model of a car, change the dimensions a
bit, change the shading, exaggerate some of its features and get a cartoon car
that looks completely different.

Another thing is that you would not have to reinvent the wheel each time.
Sure, you expect the important bits of each game to be unique. But do you
really care that the wooden crates or doors from one game are reused in
another? Being able to take an existing model of something unimportant and
tweak it to match your atmosphere would save a lot of pointless work.

Just having access to such a library would not stop a good game development
team for making a creative, distinctive game. It would just save them from
having to make a whole bunch of boring models of limited utility. They would
still make all the core models--characters, exotic settings and so on--for
each particular game.

Besides, I think game studios already share assets between similar games in
their own lineup. This would just make the sharing global, giving everybody
access to more material to start from.

~~~
unconed
My main objection comes from the fact that I do both development and design,
and I've seen a lot of developers act like art can be reused just the same as
code, with no ill effects. But humans are excellent pattern matchers, and we
do pick up on these things.

Personally I mostly enjoy games for their story and atmosphere, and the few
times I've recognized a reused asset (e.g. a sound effect) it's been really
distracting. It's like the Wilhelm Scream in movies... once you know about it,
you can never stop noticing it.

A better idea would be to make an open library for procedural generation of
assets, so that you can make infinite variations of every item, and tweaking
is easy. We already have e.g. SpeedTree, but these things are so valuable they
always end up being commercial rather than free.

~~~
pyre

      >  the few times I've recognized a reused asset (e.g.
      > a sound effect)
    

The "pig farm" sound effect from WarCraft II... I've heard that one a lot.
From tv shows to films to other games. The only one I can pull off the top of
my head of Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex Season 1.

------
bradleyland
> "Unfortunately, there is little else that anyone except Apple can do."

Game art falls under copyright, doesn't it? Couldn't the author go after them
for infringement?

~~~
miahi
It's probably not easy/cheap to win an infringement case in China.

~~~
EvilTerran
It's an iOS game -- doesn't that mean it's distributed through Apple, so
they'd be able to pull it in response to a notice of copyright infringement?

~~~
Ralith
The article state that they gave notice, and that Apple hasn't done anything
yet. It's interesting to see what Apple bans from the app store without a
thought, and what they're reluctant to do anything about.

~~~
k-mcgrady
I've been on the receiving end of an app related copyright notice before. (I
used the 'NFL' trademark without permission - I'm not American and thought it
was the name of the sport and couldn't be copyrighted). Apple forwarded me the
notice via email and asked me to respond and take action. I responded to the
NFL guys, fixed the problem and never had to remove the app.

So Apple gives the developer a chance to respond (i.e. it will probably take a
few days to see any action). If they didn't we would end up with the mess like
they have with DMCA notice takedowns on YouTube.

~~~
jrmg
I was also on the receiving end of a notice a couple of years ago. In my case
Apple took the app down after 7 days.

I wrote about it in more detail at
[http://blog.th.ingsmadeoutofotherthin.gs/eucalyptus-
availabl...](http://blog.th.ingsmadeoutofotherthin.gs/eucalyptus-available-
again)

------
mille562
It seems like a DMCA takedown notice would work in this situation. Anyone have
a reason why that would not be a valid method?

~~~
Zimahl
It should definitely be valid. Apple should pull down the app until EGLS can
disprove infringement, and if Apple doesn't they are just as liable.

~~~
knowtheory
That's not how the DCMA works however. The purpose of the DCMA is
accountability not enforcement (when it comes to the Safe Harbor provision).

Runic can, through the DCMA ensure that the content is either taken down, or
they are put in touch with the party they assert are infringing. From there on
out, it is the responsibility of the two parties to work out, as far as the
DCMA is concerned.

That said, Apple can do whatever they like with their platform, and show
little compunction about doing so.

I'm reminded of all of the cyberpunk Gibsonian/Stephensonian worlds where
governments have given way to governance by and for corporations. Welcome to
the future.

~~~
dangrossman
The DMCA goes further than you seem to think.

Without it, Apple is directly liable for copyright infringement. They are
making and distributing copies of Torchlight's work without authorization each
time someone downloads the app; the fact that some other entity provided it to
them does not absolve them of liability for this infringement.

If Apple wants to shed liability for the copyright infringement they are
committing they would be required to promptly remove or block access to the
alleged infringing content, not simply put the notifier in touch with someone.
If they don't remove or disable access, they don't qualify for the safe harbor
provision of the DMCA and remain liable.

Even should Apple block access, they do not remove themselves from the
equation; you are wrong to say it's now solely in the hands of the two parties
as far as the DMCA is concerned. Instead, the alleged infringer now has an
opportunity to file a counter-notice disputing the claim of infringement. When
Apple receives this counter-notice, to retain their safe harbor protection
from liability, they must now promptly restore access to the content.

This serves as protection against excessive damage done by false claims of
infringement. Apple and other service providers are not expected to decide the
merits of either claim. Simply take down upon notice of infringement, restore
upon counter-notice.

Only then is the situation left to the two parties and the courts to resolve.

~~~
knowtheory
How exactly is that incompatible with what I've said?

The DCMA assumes that Apple, acting in good faith, will resolve Runic's issue
by either taking down the infringing content, or putting them in touch with
the supposedly infringing party. The infringing party, if they believe Runic
to be incorrect can then counter-file, to ensure the content is not taken
down, and then from there Runic and the infringing party are the ones
responsible for dealing with the legalities of the issue _not Apple_.

~~~
dangrossman
> How exactly is that incompatible with what I've said?

I believe I just gave a point-by-point of how that's incompatible with what
you said. I'll be more explicit:

You said "through the DCMA ensure that the content is either taken down, or
they are put in touch with the party". I said that putting you in touch with
the party is not sufficient under the DMCA; it's not an either/or situation.

You said "from there on out, it is the responsibility of the two parties to
work out". I said that Apple's responsibility does not end at the takedown
notice, they're also responsible for handling the potential counter-notice and
restoring access to the content.

Then you made some silly comment about governance by corporations, when the
DMCA _requires_ those corporations _not_ decide the merits of either party's
claims; in a dispute, it is _required_ to leave the content available and
force the parties to court to resolve the situation. If they don't do so, they
retain full liability for the copyright infringement.

You didn't say all the other stuff you just edited into your comment, not that
it corrects all the issues with your original statement.

------
simonh
For those commenting against IP rights and saying this isn't such a big deal,
suppose thousands of people buy this rip-off game. Later the original creators
release an iOS version.

What are the chances of someone who bought the rip-off then buying the
original creator's game? If anything they're likely to view the legitimate
game as the rip-off because it was released later, and say so in App Store
reviews.

Novelty has a pretty high value in itself, and that value is being stolen.

------
aquanext
This is hilarious: <http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=144793>

~~~
talmand
The really funny part is where they accuse Runic Games of "borrowing" ideas
from Wild Tangent's Fate, which is similar to Torchlight. They even say they
could conclude that Torchlight blatantly ripped off Fate. For those that don't
know, the reason it's funny is because Travis Baldree, one of the founders of
Runic Games, is also the creator of Fate.

~~~
0x0
I don't know, I think the part where they are caught with a bunch of identical
.wav files - even including identically misspelt file names - is pretty good
too :)

~~~
talmand
That's not funny, that's just sad.

------
nates
i dont see it up anymore...

~~~
kqr2
Link to game still works for me:

[http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/armed-heroes-
online-3d-mmorpg...](http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/armed-heroes-
online-3d-mmorpg/id533790395)

