
The Life of a Cherry Drying Pilot (2009) - ycombonator
https://www.aneclecticmind.com/2009/06/13/the-life-of-a-cherry-drying-pilot/
======
zzless
Fantastic description of a helicopter flying job. The standby experience is no
different from any other commercial (unscheduled) flying job but I am sure the
competition is more intense. It has always been a mystery to me how helicopter
pilots come into existence at all: it takes at least $30,000 in expenses (more
if you are starting from scratch) to get the first useful rating (commercial)
and then (I judge from my experience) no one would hire you since you do not
have enough hours, no matter how dangerous the job might be. Instruction is
one way but even then no one would even talk to you before you have at least
300 hours. Some tour pilots I know fly for $8 an hour to get the 1000 hours
required for any _real_ commercial job (like flying for an oil company and
such). The author owns her helicopter so that is a bit different but now you
have the associated risk and pressure to pay for your investment. My fixed
wing ratings paid for themselves relatively quickly but I am still trying to
get a helicopter job to pay for the rotorwing part. This article gave me some
good ideas ...

~~~
nradov
A lot of helicopter pilots come into existence through the military.

~~~
zzless
Of course, but I do meet _a lot_ of the ones that didn't. Those guys have a
lot of perseverance, although many of them, just like me started in fixed
wing.

------
mastazi
Another similar job: frost protection of vineyards using helicopters. It is
used in conditions of thermal inversion (colder air near the ground, warmer
air in the upper layer), in those conditions the rotor downwash raises the
temperature near the ground. More info:

[1] [https://grapecollective.com/articles/frost-fighters-the-
heli...](https://grapecollective.com/articles/frost-fighters-the-helicopters-
that-protect-the-vines)

[2] [https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/241735-flying-frost-
protec...](https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/241735-flying-frost-protection-
over-vineyards.html)

[3]
[https://www.wineaustralia.com/getmedia/6740ada2-1be7-4e3e-b0...](https://www.wineaustralia.com/getmedia/6740ada2-1be7-4e3e-b002-d5f35ae52ba7/201009-Arming-
against-frost.pdf)

Another common use of helicopters in a rural environment is aerial mustering,
this one does not really need explanation:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbMudWaYeXo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbMudWaYeXo)

------
pbhjpbhj
Very interesting.

He says the cherries split or mold if left wet for a short time, so he has to
be on call in all daylight hours (17h) ... but what about when it rains in the
7 nighttime hours? Is it the sun-drying of the wet cherries that causes the
damage?

I wonder about these sort of pieces whether they're just equipping others to
drive them or if business. He says it's already highly competitive, sounds
like a firm could drive the soloists out of business by undercutting them
(maybe that's happening now), then pushing up prices later.

I can't believe you can't undercut with a massive set of fans on a "cherry
picker"-type vehicle (maybe paired with a shaker-harvest system).

~~~
lqet
> but what about when it rains in the 7 nighttime hours? Is it the sun-drying
> of the wet cherries that causes the damage?

It's possible that rot is a long-term problem (cherries wet for more than one
day) and the splitting is indeed caused very quickly by the rain / sun
combination, but I think the issue is that the work is just too dangerous
during night hours.

~~~
jrace
Dangerous and depending on location of the orchard - in violation of noise
ordinances.

As cool as this all seems....if you happen to live near an orchard, or in my
case, the helipad - it appears to be a horrible inefficient and nuisance way
to solve the issue.

I do wish there was another option.

------
digikazi
I found this article absolutely fascinating - I didn't even know such a job
existed!

Many years ago, when I was young and foolish, I thought being a crop duster
pilot was the bees knees; also easier to get into with low hours, and who
knows, maybe after spraying enough potato, a coveted airline job. Little did I
know! It turns out the level of skill required to do the job is very high, the
lifestyle not so great when you get older, and no, it's not necessarily easier
to get into.

Ultimately I didn't become a pilot, but an engineer. Looking back, I'm happy
with my choice and my life as it is now. Only occasionally do I watch aviation
videos on YouTube and wonder "what if".

Thank you for a really cool article - and kudos to the guy drying cherries
with his little Robinson!

~~~
dTal
_Her_ little Robinson.

I do believe it probably says _something_ about preconceived notions that, of
the mere half dozen comments accumulated so far, this mistake has been made
twice already.

~~~
massivecali
It says nothing more than English is a male language. And ambiguous titling
defaults to he (or they).

~~~
dTal
A "male language"? What does that mean?

And there was no ambiguity - the author's name, "Maria", was at the top of the
article.

~~~
Ntrails
I don't tend to read the name of the author of an article, because there is
essentially zero chance that I'll remember the name and frankly I don't care
who they are.

I suspect that most people tend to read in their own gender in absence of
other cues? I have a strong memory of going through the first chapter of a
book completely misgendering the protaganist. Fortunately it wasn't a "doctor
-> man" bias situation, just "person walking through park describing
view/situation", otherwise I'd have been super angry at myself.

------
AWildC182
Wonder if there are any studies on lead accumulation in the fields and
cherries. The R44 is probably burning on the order of 15 gallons per hour
100LL (Low Lead) drying cherries and the exhaust is directed downward. Each
gallon has a little over 2g of lead in it.

~~~
zzless
This is an excellent point. The helicopter exhaust is probably deposited in
its entirety on the cherry trees and in the field. I guess the Jetranger dried
fields look almost 'organic' in comparison:) Hopefully, the FAA and the oil
companies will eventually come up with a less toxic alternative to the 100LL
(although they have been promising it for years now).

~~~
mveety
I know it a pipe dream, but I’ve been hoping we’ll all switch to diesels. JetA
is so much cheaper. That being said I think probably ethanol will replace
100LL. It’s got a sufficient octane rating and the modifications needed to the
engine and aircraft are pretty minor.

~~~
Yetanfou
Ethanol is less energy-dense than 100LL, let alone JetA. This means you need
to carry more of it as specific fuel consumption will go up by ~20% - 25%
(estimate from the increased fuel consumption of multi-fuel car engines
running on E85 (a mixture of ~85% ethanol with ~15% petrol).

Given the limited load capacity of aircraft I'd expect JetA to be the
preferred route as that is actually more energy-dense than 100LL. Both ethanol
as well as (something resembling) JetA can be made from renewable sources so
there is no advantage either way in that respect.

That said it is not feasible to run an engine made for 100LL on JetA while
conversion to ethanol in theory can be achieved without too much effort -
bigger jets on a carburettor, adjusted injection mappings for fuel injection,
all seals and gaskets need to be compatible with ethanol which tends to cause
swelling and eventual failure in many types of synthetics.

I've converted a few motorcycle engines to run on E85 as that is a more
economical fuel here in Sweden. I did the same for some smaller engines and am
trying to get a chain saw to run reliably on this fuel. The big advantage here
is that the exhaust fumes from E85 are far less noxious than those from petrol
or syngas. The problem is that these are 2-stroke engines which depend on a
fuel-oil mixture for crankcase lubrication. There are not that many suitable
lubricants which mix well with E85.

------
dmitryminkovsky
> About three weeks before the cherries are ready to be picked, they are
> particularly vulnerable to threats that can damage them. One of those
> threats is water. When it rains, the water sticks to the cherries and can
> cause them to rot, split, or both. This makes the cherries far less valuable
> to buyers.

> Cherry growers have long tried to find ways to dry the cherries and prevent
> the rot/split problems. They put fans on tall poles in their orchards and
> run blowers up and down the rows. But this isn’t usually effective. Enough
> rain in those last few weeks can destroy the entire crop.

> Sometime in the past — maybe 10 or 15 years ago? — someone had the idea of
> using the downwash of helicopters hovering over the cherry trees to blow the
> branches around and shake the water off the cherries. This was extremely
> effective and apparently well worth the cost.

> “Cherry drying” by helicopter was born.

I was expecting something like spraying a desiccant. This is so much cooler.
But pretty sad in terms of carbon emissions. Can this be done by drone?

Does this explain the whole cheaper class of split cherries you can buy during
cherry season in New York, usually from street vendors?

~~~
CompelTechnic
If you think that a lightweight drone will give just as much wind power as a
heavy helicopter, you need to think about F=MA a bit. The weight of the pilot
(and supporting systems) act as balast against which the "fan" can push.
Otherwise the fan would accelerate into the sky. More ballast = bigger fan,
and a huuuuge fan is way better than a small fan given the problem at hand.

~~~
dmitryminkovsky
Yes great point. Thank you. So 2000 dollars in fuel and helicopter actually
gives you good bang for your buck here?

~~~
ip26
At least compared to losing the harvest, obviously the answer is yes. At
$5/lb, 400lbs of cherries pays for the helicopter.

------
jatsign
Next Ycombinator class: A company using drones to dry cherries with machine
learning.

~~~
ndespres
I know you're being facetious but these _are_ the types of industries and
activities that don't get the SV disruption treatment, partly because nobody
there knows about them. It's partly why I love when these "off-topic" posts
get made here. There's now a lot more people read this post and who are now
aware of this strange thing that keeps our world working in the way we expect
it to- and might have ideas on how to make it better.

~~~
jatsign
I was being facetious, but I also love these kind of stories. Like the one
last week about the guy sells onions on the internet. We live in a weird
world.

~~~
shortandsweet
Yeah I totally agree. I love these kind, and the onions story too. Wonder
where I can get more.

------
jatsign
Video of the author drying cherries with a helicopter:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPT9YbtINy4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPT9YbtINy4)

------
theonething
> For me, that means spending a lot of time hanging around my RV at the golf
> course. (It’s almost unfortunate that I don’t golf.) It means having access
> to weather information and having something to do to keep busy so you don’t
> die of boredom

I've always thought a job with this feature (lots of down time) would be
perfect for a developer who likes to hack on personal projects. E.g. liquor
store owner

~~~
organsnyder
For me it would depend on how predictable the interruptions are. I would find
it very challenging to get much done if I wasn't able to devote large enough
blocks of concentrated time.

------
w-m
> They put fans on tall poles in their orchards and run blowers up and down
> the rows. But this isn’t usually effective.

From my armchair I wonder what the reason is for not having a ground-based
solution. Running a small vehicle (lawnmower-size?) with a fan mounted on top
between the trees seems like a much more economic way to have the same effect.

Is there not enough space between the trees to pass through (but then, how
would they harvest)?

Do the trees suffer, branches break if the air flow comes from below / from
the side?

~~~
teh_klev
> I wonder what the reason is for not having a ground-based solution. Running
> a small vehicle (lawnmower-size?) with a fan mounted on top

I imagine the important part of the "drying" process/action is being able to
give the branches a bloody good shake to dislodge the water droplets. It's
likely that even very large fans aren't capable of moving that much air
(compared to a helicopter's blades). Then there's also the question of even if
you could trundle around the orchard with a set of fans able to push that much
air I can imagine it would be comedically unstable and dangerous :)

[edit: typo]

~~~
ehnto
I wouldn't go anywhere near such a device. The amount of energy in a rapidly
disembarking blade would be terrifying.

------
istjohn
I wonder if a canopy could be deployed to protect the cherries from water in
the first place instead of drying them after the fact.

------
BrandonMarc
She's a great writer and clearly a great pilot.

Is this natural for cherries? To be so vulnerable to a little water that they
split/rot within a few hours? Seems odd, for a plant that lives outdoors.

Have cherries always been this way, across the centuries? Or is this an
unexpected consequence of some GMO shenanigans?

~~~
rtkwe
Judging by the picture they're probably still good enough to be eaten by
animals just not by choosy humans or good enough for the seed pits to still
work. Remember ultimately the fruit is just a trick to get animals to eat and
transport the seeds after all as long as a deer or bird is still willing to
eat it and the seed doesn't die the fruit's job is done.

------
mikorym
This is also now being done in South Africa.

In SA, rain in the JHB area is in the summer and in the Cape it's in the
winter. So, either you try to plant in an area which harvests before the rain
(JHB) or after the rain (the Cape).

In both cases you could end up trying to aim for a period where there is rain
that falls overlapping the harvest period.

------
Gravityloss
Perhaps a supersonic plane flying at low altitude would be more effective in
shaking the water off the cherries.

------
giardini
Couldn't something be sprayed on the cherries to reduce surface tension and
inhibit mold/bacteria so the cherries would dry w/o cracking? Then you could
spray the fields with a fixed-wing craft. Penetration into the tree foliage
might be a hurdle as well as cleaning off whatever you sprayed afterwards.
Nonetheless farmers use sprays for almost everything these days.

Using helicopters as dryers seems very kludgy, expensive, and dangerous and
little more than a stop-gap measure until something better comes along.

Certainly a robotic mid-sized to large helicopter-like drone designed to
primarily hover would be safer and cheaper. It could have long legs (taller
than cherry trees) and fans on the side to assist drying and to reduce energy
consumption (it could set on the ground during drying and only lift off to
change trees). A little fuzzy logic to control positioning and movement and
boom - a new product!

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
I love apples.

But for the longest time, starting about 20 years ago, I thought I had
developed an allergy to apples because no matter what I did to clean them,
including peeling the skin, I still had a badly itching throat and all my
"usual" food allergy symptoms.

Then after I bought a property that had wild apple trees and i found that I
could eat the sweet ones with no issues, and could also eat the apples growing
at a friend's house, I realized there was something being sprayed on
commercial apples that I had an allergic reaction to.

In short, the less crap that's sprayed onto my food, the better. So yeah, I'd
rather pay more for cherries (I'm allergic to raw ones anyway!) than have to
deal with the side effects of whatever water repellent is applied.

~~~
organsnyder
I know someone who has a severe reaction to anything corn-based. Of course,
he's unable to eat just about any processed foods, but he also has to watch
out for some produce, as it's often sprayed with a corn-based protectant.

------
yourfate
That sounds like it's probably great for those cherries' carbon footprint...

~~~
caymanjim
It's a drop in the bucket compared to all the other resources used to grow and
transport them. Agriculture is costly across the board. But I for one want my
year-round access to every food on the planet.

~~~
jfk13
> But I for one want my year-round access to every food on the planet.

I'd like to think you're being sarcastic here, but fear you may not be.

What's wrong with food being seasonal and local? Personally, I like it that
what's available varies with the season; it gives me an extra incentive to try
different things.

~~~
primroot
Besides, if the person really means it, they probably have no idea what "every
food on the planet" means.

The result of industrialized food production and distribution has been a
steady ongoing loss of food diversity. You can search for the stats from the
FAO. I believe it's 75% of food diversity gone in the last century. 12 species
providing for 75% of the world's nutritional needs.

The current system does not have food diversity as its goal, let alone taste
or nutrition. It does a good job at nourishing the pockets of big businesses,
that have an interest in turning all manner of food production and
distribution into economies of scale by commoditizing (as in "commoditize your
complements") the product. Uniformity and shelf-life win, farmers lose.

I've seen all this happen right where I live (Panama). Tasteless tomatoes,
thanks to having Nestle as the main buyer. A local cultivar of Dioscorea (Yam)
almost gone, when Frito Lay's told farmers what cultivar they wanted, which
exposed the local cultivar to a disease. Countless edible plants and fruits,
better suited for the climate and environment, have become simply unknown to
people, as cattle farming took over thanks to the introduction of herbicides
(it's also destroying the Darien rainforest, and violently displacing
indigenous communities, btw). I could go on and on. Meanwhile, you have
technicians (Ingenieros Agronomos) talking about such great achievements as
tropicalized potatoes. It makes me think of the Great Irish Famine.

So there you have it, food from all around the planet, and the whole planet
producing mostly the same. We are going full circle from abundance to
scarcity. You have to then question people inferring rather unfoundedly that
it is the abundance of food (along a sedentary lifestyle) what is driving the
obesity-related chronic disease pandemic. You have to wonder what is
abundance. Mindlessly following the commoditization trend has driven us to
unquestioningly counting food only by such fungible measures as USD, kg, and
calories, as if humans fed on food like cars feed on gas. And this brings us
to that process that I think is parallel to the commoditization of food: the
turning of humans into machines.

------
anbop
Crazy that in some places people are eating crops that need to be dried by
helicopter and in others people don’t have anything to eat.

Something big is coming, and I feel like I’m going to get the business end of
it.

~~~
shortandsweet
Something big or just further division of economic inequality? I don't see why
this is an issue. I was literally eating black cherries for breakfast and
stumbled upon this article. A few pounds of frozen cherries is only $10. Foods
have never been cheaper for everyone.

------
emblematic

      Sometime in the past (maybe 10 or 
      15 years ago?) someone had the 
      idea of using the downwash of 
      helicopters hovering over the 
      cherry trees to blow the branches 
      around and shake the water off 
      the cherries.
    

There is nothing normal about that idea.

I bet paying a pilot, who operates at price to cover their own expenses, fuel
and a paycheck, is still less expensive than the partial loss of any harvest
that receives this coverage, and crop dusting pilots are technically an
equivalent operation, but I’m thinking that there are better ways to keep
cherries dry, and that rain showers aren’t the only thing water log a cherry
tree, right?

~~~
HeWhoLurksLate
> _There is nothing normal about that idea._

For whom? I think _anyone_ who'd been near an operating helicopter and thought
"gee, I need a really big fan once in a while" would've eventually put two and
two together.

> * there are better ways to keep cherries dry, and that rain showers aren’t
> the only thing water log a cherry tree, right?*

Think about the plus sides- the grower doesn't have to buy a bunch of fans,
deal with maintenance, or do any other number of things, and the helicopter
pilot gets "guaranteed income" (though, like all growing is, that depends a
_lot_ upon the season), flying hours, and can so other things in the waiting
time. Maria, the author of the blog post, mentions elsewhere that she makes
jewelry in her waiting time, which she can then sell or do whatever with.

It's a big different from your standard 9-to-5 job, but personally, I think
it's a beautiful symbiotic relationship.

------
zwieback
I've got two cherry trees (in Oregon) and I have huge rot problems, both with
blossoms and fruit. Maybe it's time to get a tethered drone and keep them dry.

~~~
ehnto
Just some standing industrial fans running for a bit longer might do the trick
if you only have two. I doubt a consumer drone would ever have enough CFM of
airflow.

~~~
zwieback
You're probably right. I'm also dreaming of a drone with a chainsaw attached
so I can trim dangerous limbs in my yard but that would require even more CFM.

~~~
ehnto
Something they also do with helicopters, and it is arguably even crazier than
drying cherries!

------
ehnto
This reminds me of the inimitable game, Sim Copter. The idea of owning your
own helicopter and people pay you to fly it is really compelling.

