
‘Shut the Site Down,’ Says 8chan’s Creator - empath75
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/04/technology/8chan-shooting-manifesto.html
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zaroth
So literally everyone so much as reading 8chan/pol is on a watchlist, right?
And what about the people posting they are about to “go kill as many brown
people as they can find and they plan on being dead by the end of the day?”
It’s a felony terroristic threat.

How about we just arrest everyone posting _terroristic threats_ before they
can do this kind of damage? 8Chan, or whatever public forum these discussions
are occurring on.

I keep reading about blimps watching us 24/7, license plate readers tracking
everywhere we drive.

Either these terrorists have the best opsec imaginable, or the FBI agents
watching the site should consider a new line of work.

A guy like the El Paso shooter driving 9 hours to that city should have been
stopped for a “broken tail light” long before he got to his destination.

I find it nearly incomprehensible that the attacker was entirely unknown to
the FBI, that they didn’t flag the manifesto, know who posted it, and have the
means to know he was, at that very moment, on a long road-trip toward the
border.

I don’t personally know how long ahead of the attack the manifesto was posted,
or if it was the attacker’s first post. Perhaps those details would mitigate
somewhat my exasperation that this attack wasn’t foiled, but I suspect
otherwise.

EDIT: According to the NYT it was posted 19 minutes before the first 911 call
came in. But Newsweek says an hour and a half.

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kpU8efre7r
>I keep reading about blimps watching us 24/7, license plate readers tracking
everywhere we drive.

It's almost as if this "surveillance state" you all imagine doesn't exist.
There are checks in place and warrants needed for this. If you see something
illegal online you could report it to the FBI perhaps?

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brigandish
The ability to see something and stop it is not the same as the desire to see
something and stop it.

~~~
kennywinker
The ability to collect something and the ability to see it are two different
things. Just because data about this guy may have been snarfed up, doesn’t
mean anybody looked at it.

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rolph
Ones moral constitution is supremely revealed in the manner of conduct chosen
when no perceived consequences exist.

e.g. Lord of The Flies.

~~~
JackFr
There was a great quote from some WWII officer who said about war crimes
(paraphrasing & I can’t remember his name) “We observe the rules of war not
for the sake of our enemies, but for the sake of ourselves.”

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Buldak
If 8chan is really committed to some kind of free speech absolutism, it makes
me wonder why they removed the offending posts.

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tdxgx
8chan's owner allows free speech. The admin of each board can moderate as he
pleases.

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hestipod
What is a workable answer when it comes to behavior and speech other than a
rules based society with limits? I don't see truly oppressed people talking
about this problem as the concept was meant to protect, I see people who want
to be allowed to do and say whatever they feel like despite how it affects
innocents. They hijack the intent for nefarious purpose. It's proven over and
over that bad people abuse and take over platforms and societies that are
entirely open. You cannot have entirely "free" speech without this problem.
Any civilized society has to have limits and rules otherwise regular, calm,
peaceful people are always suffering the effects of the aggressors.

I've used the example before of a town with one place to eat. Someone comes in
screaming and throwing poop at people. You cannot just "ignore" it. It ruins
the place for others. So you choice is to suffer it or never go out to eat and
socialize with other calm folks. Is that a proper price to pay so the
screaming poop thrower doesn't feel oppressed? Is that really sensible? Sure
long term you can build another diner at your own expense...but the screaming
poop thrower will come there too and if you kick him out you are "censoring".
You can also stay home. But you lose out on experience and peace to avoid the
problem. But this seems to be the idea people who are entirely against any
censorship or rules propose. "If you don't like it ignore it or move on". That
doesn't work in the real world.

~~~
tomp
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work online though. I think platforms like Twitter
should adopt a “filter-list” like approach, where you could “unsubscribe” from
different kinds of content / posters (e.g. “porn”, “gore”, “right-wing
extremists”, “sci-fi enthusiasts”, etc.) - these lists could be generated both
automatically (e.g. for porn), and / or manually moderated.

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pram
What exactly makes 8chan the preferred platform for this kind of stuff, and
not other websites? Genuinely curious, is it just because it’s unmoderated?

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astura
I think this is the reason (from TFA):

>The site remained on the fringes until 2014, when some supporters of
GamerGate — a loose reactionary collection of anti-feminist video gamers —
flocked to 8chan after being kicked off 4chan. Since GamerGate, 8chan has
become a catchall website for internet-based communities whose behavior gets
them evicted from more mainstream sites.

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dinofacedude
That and Voat. Voat is almost as bad in a lot of ways

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Simulacra
It’s a distasteful site but I think it should stay. No speech should be
silenced.

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Aloha
Historically very little speech could be made without social consequences, the
internet broke that paradigm

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happytoexplain
I think these two posts just about sum up the state of things and our
disagreements at this time in history as succinctly as I could imagine.

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Aloha
The question I keep asking is, how do we add those social consequences back
into internet speech, without massive regulation, this I do not know the
answer to yet.

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mdrzn
Is there a way to read the NY Times? I can't be incognito, or in guest mode,
and Outline says "not supported".

Same shit with LA Times and the WP.

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dredmorbius
Disable JS.

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hndamien
Seems like a honeypot for surveillance.

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neo4sure
I' am celebrating right now...

