
PaintCode 2 - normanv
http://www.paintcodeapp.com/intro
======
mournit
I am feeling increasingly frustrated by product websites that assume I already
know what their product is. This seems to be especially prevalent on sites of
tools meant for developers.

Please, don't make me have to guess by reading your tooltips, feature blurbs,
and customer quotes like they are puzzle pieces to the question of "what the
hell is this thing!"

At least PaintCode is kind enough to give an overview in their documentation.

~~~
shaunol
This is becoming an increasingly common and frustrating thing for products
posted here to HN.

How did this product even get to the front page when it's almost impossible to
actually tell what it is or the problems it solves?

I scrolled down past the screenshot expecting to read an introduction about it
and now we're suddenly talking about StyleKits??? Huh?

E: Quite ironic that the URI path is /intro and the main header "Introducing
PaintCode 2", when the page does everything except introduce the product.

~~~
fredsted
>How did this product even get to the front page when it's almost impossible
to actually tell what it is or the problems it solves

Just read the first couple lines on the screenshot. It's the first thing you
read when you visit the page:

 _" Use built-in vector drawing tools to design controls"_ and _" PaintCode
instantly generates Objective-C or C# code from your drawings"_

That's explanation enough for me, didn't you see that?

------
cwyers
Looks pretty nifty, but I wish it would mention what it runs on (it looks like
OS X only, but would it kill them to just say that?)

~~~
manmal
No it definitely also runs on iOS, and, interestingly, Xamarin:
[http://docs.xamarin.com/samples/PaintCode/](http://docs.xamarin.com/samples/PaintCode/)

I met the authors in person > 1 year ago, when they were thinking about
whether Java (Android) code generation would make sense. Would love to learn
that they made it happen too.

~~~
jcomis
I think they are referring to what platform the actual app runs on, not the
code it generates, which appears to be OS X only.

~~~
cwyers
Right, it generates Objective-C and C# which can presumably be used anywhere
those can run, but the tool itself runs somewhere.

~~~
keehun
Tool runs on OSX only.

I guess they (I would, too) assumed it was pretty obvious, but it is clearly
not. (I don't mean this in a derogatory or a mean way). Just interesting.
Related to the top comment here about not assuming that the visitors know what
the app is about.

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general_failure
Nice, Apple itself is a customer. That's a big thumbs up.

In general, do you have to contact companies and ask them permission before
you put them on the customer list?

~~~
kingnothing
You generally ask the company for permission, and they generally say yes
because it's free marketing for them.

~~~
giovannibajo1
I bet Apple didn't give them permission, they never want their logo to be used
for marketing purposes for any reason. There are no takeaway Apple-branded
gadgets for instance (while I have tons of tshirt/pens/gadgets with
logos/products of any technological company in existence), and many shopping
malls in which Apple has a store can't show an Apple logo on the big ads
panels outside.

------
jfisk87
Wow, if you bought version 1 they have no upgrade price :(

~~~
jcomis
That's the trend lately. App store doesn't support that sort of pricing model.

~~~
jfisk87
That's pretty bad way to alienate your loyal customers. They can still have
users email them and issue download codes after paying through their website.

~~~
eridius
No they can't. The App Store very deliberately prevents that (because that
would let you use the App Store for all its benefits, while completely
bypassing the 30% cut). The only codes you get are a limited number of
promotional codes. Sure, if you have 5 customers, you could give them codes,
but if you have 500 you can't.

~~~
tlercher
They can.

[MAS = Mac App Store, nMAS = non-Mac App Store]

The only (okay two) way that is impossible to do is: MAS ➜ MAS (and nMAS ➜
MAS)

but:

non-MAS ➜ non-MAS: via serial in the store MAS ➜ non-MAS: Receipt Validation
([https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/releasenotes/General...](https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/releasenotes/General/ValidateAppStoreReceipt/Introduction.html))

the last one is rarely used by Developers… 1Password is one, that allows you
to buy it in the MAS, and use at least their Beta-Builds.

That many developers use the MAS as an excuse, for not providing any upgrade
paths at all… is a very silly solution to a problem that many
Developers/Companys face (to make permanent profit) at the cost of customer
satisfaction.

~~~
cjensen
A _paid_ upgrade for store MAS ➜ non-MAS is forbidden by Apple. Omni already
tried that [1].

[1] [https://www.omnigroup.com/blog/omnikeymaster-upgrade-
pricing...](https://www.omnigroup.com/blog/omnikeymaster-upgrade-pricing-for-
mac-app-store-customers)

------
habosa
I would KILL for something like this on Android. I know on Android it's not
standard to layout UI in code but even just a better Android WYSIWYG layout
xml designer would be wonderful. People have proven that it's possible to
create gorgeous custom Android apps but it's definitely easier on iOS.

~~~
ww520
I don't think it is what you think it is. It is not a UI layout design tool.
It's a tool to build vector-based control icons and graphic.

~~~
habosa
It looks like you can create vector-based custom controls and export them as
Obj-C code. Custom controls are a real pain to layout on Android, so this
would be great.

------
kitschpatrol
Fantastic progress on a great app!

Seems like a candidate for an Apple acquisition and then integration in Xcode
6. A bit of a stretch, but such a move would align with the trend of baking
interface builder, particle effect editors, etc. right into the IDE. (Designer
<\--> developer workflow considerations aside...)

------
NIL8
Lighten up people. I understand the frustration, but OP is not ALL of those
posts you're referring to. He's one guy that posted a link looking for
feedback.

OP: I like this and think it has a nice, fresh look to it. Look forward to
playing around with it. Thanks.

------
thomasjoulin
Wow, tough crowd! I'd be curious to see what some of the commenters have
shipped...

One question for the PaintCode team if they read this: is it possible to have
dynamic star shapes? i.e I set it grows with the frame

This update looks awesome, can't wait to use it

------
JRobertson
As someone who has fairly limited exposure to mobile application development I
have to ask a basic question, what are the use cases for this tool?

I can tell that it turns vector into code, but why not just include the vector
in the app?

~~~
fatboy
From what I understand, there's a performance gain from doing the drawing
directly.

~~~
thought_alarm
Actually, there's a performance hit when drawing directly (via [UIView
drawRect:])

The point of PaintCode is to allow dynamic manipulation of an image. If you
don't need a dynamic image, the best option is a .png; second option is
drawing once to a UIImage.

------
scrumper
I _just_ bought PaintCode 1, about a week ago. Sad^h^h^h Happy - free upgrade
woo!

~~~
VeryVito
If you bought it after April 1, the upgrade is free. Email support for info
(as seen in the blog post here: [http://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/introducing-
paintcode-2](http://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/introducing-paintcode-2))

~~~
scrumper
Outstanding. Cheers VeryVito.

~~~
natch
Not very outstanding at all. I bought it last year and have used it a total of
zero times (whose fault is that, mine, correct, but still, it stings that they
have a shitty upgrade policy).

~~~
scrumper
Well $99 for a developer tool is quite some impulse purchase. Can I gently
suggest that your upset might be more a case of buyer's remorse than
dissatisfaction with their upgrade policy?

If it helps, it does come up on things like MacHeist occasionally, and they
have sales once in a while (there's one now, at $79.99, but I've seen it as
low as $50).

------
spiralganglion
The animated bubbles make it very hard to read the text they connect to. Very
distracting. But otherwise, the look of the site is absolutely gorgeous, and
I'm really curious to see all the improvements.

------
_zen
This seems like a cool way to learn Objective-C and iOS development.

Can I make an entire working app using this, or is it only meant for
prototyping/mock-ups?

~~~
eddieroger
PaintCode is meant to replace the need for images by giving you the equivalent
code for basic images. Their initial claim to fame with version 1 was being
"Retina ready," since the images are drawn in code instead of PNGs. It is a
very good way to learn Quartz and CoreGraphics, but not necessarily the best
way to learn ObjC.

I used PaintCode in a project I worked once, and it was a lot more work than I
wanted for just asking my designer to give me an @2x image. If you work with
designers who do vector art already, you're not going to gain much. The
StyleKit class is slick, though, so I may revisit this once again.

~~~
nikster
I am wondering if PaintCode would allow my designer to draw up a complete UI -
e.g. all screens so I could just use that.

What I do now is I get the designs in some sort of intermediary format, e.g.
InVision or whatever, then I have to go and measure everything and all the
pixel distances, then re-create it in Interface Builder. It's retarded.

~~~
fredsted
Couldn't you just use Interface Builder to begin with? You can e-mail or put
into git .xib files right?

------
mrmondo
It really annoys me that the website doesn't even say what the product is /
who it is intended for.

------
mrbill
What's the difference between this and something like Interface Builder?

~~~
sritch
Interface builder is pretty limited for customizing design elements.

