
How Hack the North wasn’t the bomb - whiteboarder
https://medium.com/@tsani/how-hack-the-north-wasn-t-the-bomb-5beefe8baf1b
======
petercooper
From said code of conduct: "If what you’re doing is making someone feel
uncomfortable, that counts as harassment and is enough reason to stop doing
it."

This is a mechanism by which anyone could be expelled for saying anything
someone else doesn't like. It's a clear policy, which either you support (by
attending their events and avoiding saying anything anyone else might find
offensive) or not (by staying home and doing what you like).

(I must disclose I have a juvenile and often offensive sense of humor. At
events with codes of conduct - and MLH's is based upon a popular one,
O'Reilly's contains similar language - I only act myself with people I know
who are comfortable with it, and play my filtered persona otherwise. Putting
stuff on an event's Facebook group is like being on stage, you gotta be
careful of being yourself - keep jokes to people you know.)

~~~
whiteboarder
MLH had no authority to kick out the students. The hackathon is run by a
separate group of Waterloo students, whereas MLH is a for-profit hackathon
organization that just helps colleges with sponsorships.

~~~
nness
You've written this a few times, but there's no proof that that is the case.

MLH obviously had a commercial relationship with the University and that would
likely entitle them to certain authorities. Unless your privy to the contract,
or the University has officially stated otherwise, what source are you using
to back this up?

~~~
whiteboarder
My other sources have to remain private unfortunately. (official responses
haven't been crafted yet)

But I can say that even if it ends up that they technically had the authority
to do this, then us Hack the North organizers were mislead to an
extraordinarily large degree about the nature of the relationship between MLH
and Hack the North.

~~~
nness
Hack The North's official statement supports the cations taken by MLH.
[http://hackthenorth.com/hackthenorth-
response.pdf](http://hackthenorth.com/hackthenorth-response.pdf)

------
jonesb6
Summary: Author made comments on a message board in the context of the Texas
clock-bomb thing:

X => "Anyone building a clock for their hack?" Author => "We're building a
bomb actually looks just like a clock though" Y => "yeah my clock is the bomb
come check it out"

And got thrown out of the event for violating code of conduct.

Relevant South Park IMO: [http://www.cc.com/full-episodes/h4o269/south-park-
stunning-a...](http://www.cc.com/full-episodes/h4o269/south-park-stunning-and-
brave-season-19-ep-1901)

~~~
PhasmaFelis
The third guy got thrown out too. Anyone's guess why they didn't can the first
guy as well, just to cover all the bases.

------
jakozaur
4 / 6 PayPal founders built bombs for kicks in High School:
[http://valleywag.gawker.com/peter-thiel-admits-the-paypal-
ma...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/peter-thiel-admits-the-paypal-mafia-built-
bombs-in-hi-1632734435)

<irony>That's even more dangerous thank just those joke. I guess the world
would be better place if we lock them out.</irony>

Looks like there is a whole class of things that are criminalized/punished
that used to be the norm. Like letting your 6 and 10 old walking a mile alone
home.

Relevant PG essay:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html)

------
detaro
Seems like a total over-reaction to me, given the context. (It's still a bad
joke, but talking to him and saying "hey, we don't think that's funny" would
have been fine)

Why they threw out the second guy I don't get at all. I mean, I guess they
could have gone completely "thorough" and thrown out the guy asking the
question as well if that's the standard.

Kudos to the author for his level-headed post.

------
pkinsky
He made a slightly distasteful joke that included the word bomb. Is MLH trying
to mimic the TSA?

------
Grue3
So, they got kicked out because "some participants felt unsafe"? How is that
different from that boy with the clock situation? Seems like the organizers
really have no self awareness.

------
KNoureen
It was dumb joke but I think Swift overreacted. I would be quite enough to
tell them to remove their comments and apologize.

------
facepalm
That kind of thing (expulsions and accusations over harmless jokes) makes me
feel unsafe about participating in public events, especially if they have a
"code of conduct".

------
nness
In looking into who MLH were, I found their comments on the event:
[http://news.mlh.io/when-jokes-go-too-far-09-19-2015](http://news.mlh.io/when-
jokes-go-too-far-09-19-2015)

In honesty, I completely agree with the actions of MLH in the expulsion. It is
their event to run, and they have final say in the kind of discourse they
accept from the attendees. It was obviously a joke, but obviously also
distasteful so whether the decision was overly punitive is really the only
debate.

If I were the author, I wouldn't write about what transpired. There is nothing
to gain by taking it publicly and now there is an easy to locate record of
your mistake for future event organisers and employers. Should just let it
rest.

Edit: To clarify why I find it is distasteful — In context of recent events
this is just a poorly and honestly unfunny joke. But the point isn't whether
it was a joke though, the point is that universities have a long history of
being the centre of vicious and deplorable acts of violence, mass violence. In
the context of the university environment, I can see how jokes like this are
unsettling and reminiscent of real social media posts that often precede real
attacks that maim or kill real people. The authors insensitivity to this is
what I find shortsighted.

~~~
whiteboarder
It is not their event. MLH stands for major league hacking, and they are just
a separate group that helps out colleges with hackathons.

The problem is that they kicked someone out even though they had no authority
to do so. The real people in charge have objected to what happened.

~~~
13thLetter
> The real people in charge have objected to what happened.

Have they objected publicly, and made it clear that MLH's actions were
unacceptable?

~~~
whiteboarder
Yes.

Here is a link to the response of one of the Hack the North Directors:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/uwaterloo/comments/3ln4cz/two_hacke...](https://www.reddit.com/r/uwaterloo/comments/3ln4cz/two_hackers_get_kicked_out_of_hack_the_north_for/cv7oip3)

From the link: "For the record: MLH kicked him out. HTN did not. I feel like I
definitely need to make it clear that none of the directors of Hack the North
were involved in this decision. As for me, personally: I am extremely unhappy
about the decision."

~~~
13thLetter
I absolutely respect that guy and his principles, but that's not a public
statement from the organization stating its official policy, that's a Reddit
comment stating a private individual's views.

------
raymondgh
MLH should have expelled everyone who liked the comments as well.

------
gioele
Second Wiio's law [1]:

«If a message can be interpreted in several ways, it will be interpreted in a
manner that maximizes the damage.»

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiio%27s_laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiio%27s_laws)

------
outis
This is the future you chose.

------
dederp
You deserved to be kicked out. Many, many school shooting start with similar
jokes about "bringing a gun to school lol!" Example:
[http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93924&page=1](http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93924&page=1).

All I see in this thread are a bunch of whining millennials bickering over
policy details. How about: Don't joke about killing people at a public event?
Your words and social media posts are your public record and indicate your
intent, don't post stupid things online, learn that now before you do
something really dumb that gets you fired.

~~~
7Z7
Many more non-killings start out with a joke about bringing a gun to school.

------
edgyswingset
"At Hack the North, volunteers approached us after receiving a report from an
attendee who felt unsafe after viewing the posts on Facebook." \- from the
update[0]

Unfortunately if someone feels unsafe then it's escalated past a joke in poor
taste. Personally I think the students should still have been allowed to
participate and be barred from placing, but I wouldn't call expulsion an
overreaction.

[0] [http://news.mlh.io/when-jokes-go-too-
far-09-19-2015](http://news.mlh.io/when-jokes-go-too-far-09-19-2015)

~~~
PhasmaFelis
> _Unfortunately if someone feels unsafe then it 's escalated past a joke in
> poor taste._

I'm happy to describe myself as a Social Justice Warrior, capital letters and
all, but there has to be a limit somewhere, or anyone can screw anyone else by
claiming to be offended by the color of their T-shirt. No reasonable person
could have taken this as an actual threat. I could see saying "Hey, please
don't make jokes like that," but going straight to kicking people out is not
reasonable.

~~~
edgyswingset
I agree that it's strange that someone would feel unsafe over something that's
obviously a joke, but there's a decent chance said person could go to the
media about that and turn it into yet another culturally insensitive tech
industry thing. Better to be safe and leave a few college kids pissed off.

~~~
13thLetter
Such a policy puts you at the mercy of every unbalanced person -- or every
person with an agenda -- who wanders by. If someone was determined to create
the "culturally insensitive tech industry" narrative, they are going to find
_something_ , even if they have to make it up. Anyone who genuinely believes
that this clock joke was somehow malicious is not the sort of person who was
concerned about facts in the first place.

------
mikelyons
Don't make bomb jokes dude, what the heck. <\- Any Reasonable Person

(I've shot my mouth off and gotten in trouble for it a few times, and learned
not to do this)

