
Uber Drivers discuss giving 1-star ratings to passengers who don't tip - stevenjohns
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tipping.313017/
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koolba
Lyft really screwed this up for everybody. We had a good thing going where
this inane concept was missing from digital ride share. But no, they had to
pretend they’re doing something “pro-driver” by allowing tips and now we end
up here.

I’ll never tip via an app. I’m paying for a service and expect the price to
include everything. Note that I _do_ tip in cash but that’s done on a case by
case basis because I decided to do so, not because I feel obligated.

~~~
meowface
I don't tip often for Uber/Lyft, but I do always tip for Uber Eats and other
food delivery apps, mostly because my condo unit is kind of hard to get to. I
find that if I don't explicitly say "Will tip for door delivery" in my Uber
Eats delivery instructions, about 15% of drivers won't come anywhere near my
door and will just wait for me outside of the building. After adding that
line, it went down to 1%.

So for me, tipping is kind of just an added cost I have to account for to get
the app's actual promised service.

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have_faith
I use Uber precisely because of its predictability and lack of social dances
and pressures. At this rate it will just be another taxi company before long.
I want the drivers to be paid fairly, and if that means making the rates more
reasonable then so be it I'm happy to pay a fair price. Just don't make the
drivers livelihood depend on how well he can pretend to be interested in my
day etc to eek out as much tips as possible. The dynamic it creates is not fun
for either side.

~~~
baxtr
Changing human nature is really really difficult, maybe impossible

EFIT: because of the downvotes I want to clarify that I meant: if Uber is
developing towards other, older taxi companies it’s maybe because of human
nature and not because they wanted to become like that

~~~
adamrainsby
Not in this case. The culture around tipping is not universal.

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troydavis
In the US, Uber doesn't show the presence or amount of an in-app tip until
after the driver has rated the passenger, so this is impossible. I can't
imagine why they'd implement it any other way in other countries.

Whatever one's view of tipping, this specific problem isn't likely to be an
issue.

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bluetidepro
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how can they give you a 1-star rating? They don't
know if I tipped or not as a rider, right? Isn't it all just added into their
pay, no way to tell if a specific rider they had tipped X or Y? Or do they
mean cash tips?

~~~
stevenjohns
In the thread it shows that passengers that tipped are given a green check
next to their ride.

[https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-
tipping.313017/post-4777...](https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-
tipping.313017/post-4777382)

~~~
troydavis
At least as of 2018 (I haven't seen the driver app recently), after giving a
ride, a driver is basically restricted to the passenger rating screen until
they complete it. Screens like this one, if they exist, are only visible after
a driver has rated a passenger.

The driver's rating of a passenger can only be changed by opening a support
ticket, not in the app ([https://help.uber.com/partners/article/i-want-to-
change-my-r...](https://help.uber.com/partners/article/i-want-to-change-my-
rating-for-a-rider-?nodeId=a139da41-17b0-49ef-b226-0a8587b08178)).

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Simulacra
This is why I don't use Uber. I find their whole corporate culture to be
really bad, and that has filtered down to the drivers. As for Lyft, they
should just pay people a proper amount and get rid of tipping altogether. Why
are we STILL supporting this relic of slavery?!

~~~
toomuchtodo
Without tipping, the base fare isn't enough to be a "proper amount". If they
raise the base fare, people won't use ridesharing as "too expensive".

The economy is at full employment (in the US; Australia has a substantial
minimum wage already). 68% of Uber drivers churn within six months [1]. I
doubt that's sustainable.

[1] [https://therideshareguy.com/7-reasons-why-uber-and-lyft-
driv...](https://therideshareguy.com/7-reasons-why-uber-and-lyft-drivers-are-
quitting-rideshare/)

~~~
izzydata
Then ridesharing is too expensive. If the only way to make it work is to trick
people at seemingly lower prices and then have them feel obligated to make up
the difference for the drivers salary.

~~~
toomuchtodo
That's the situation in a nutshell. You either burn up VC money or you exploit
drivers (or a combination of the two).

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gambiting
Who the hell tips uber drivers. And why. I sometimes "tip" taxi drivers if the
change is not worth getting(like if the ride was £28.84 then I'll just hand
then £30 and not bother with change), but to consciously pick a tip on the
app? Yeah it might feel nice for the driver, but all you're doing is sending
an email to Uber that says "hey guys it's fine if you pay like shit, because
we customers are totally willing to subsidise it instead. Thanks!".

~~~
chomp
I live in America. I rarely tip Uber. I have tipped before, one that comes off
the top of my mind is when I asked for a ride into downtown, where there was a
huge parade/celebration going on. Due to traffic from other vehicles, there
was no way they were getting out of there in any reasonable amount of time
after dropping me off. It easily would have taken them 10 or 15 minutes just
to get to the point where they'd be able to get out of the area I put them in.
I genuinely felt bad for them.

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joshka
It's not obvious from the title, but this is Uber in Australia. Australia
doesn't have a culture of tipping generally, because we expect that people are
getting paid a living wage by their employers. Not just a minimum wage, one
that's sufficient to actually live.

Moving to the US I encountered a huge culture shock when I learnt that there
was such a thing as working for almost nothing from your employer and relying
entirely on the variable generosity of random strangers to make ends meet. It
seemed rather backwards to me.

I don't think this will fly too much in Aus.

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fargo
"Well boys and girls, you're about to find out how tight pax's really are.
Uber about to allow tipping via the app. We're all rich!!! If only. Looking
forward to my additional $5 per month."

I have been able to tip for years, what am I missing?

Edit: I was missing the location, it's AU specific

~~~
madeofpalk
which is even weirder, because tipping generally isn't a thing in Australia.

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turc1656
Is there any reason cities haven't rolled out an app similar to Uber/Lyft for
the actual licensed taxi drivers? The whole idea of Uber was that you could
get a ride on demand and didn't have to fight for or wait for a cab as well as
paying less. The paying less part isn't really all that true anymore, from
what I have seen - they are about on par. Especially if tipping is now
expected.

But I think the taxi drivers would benefit greatly from an app like that. I
see no reason that there couldn't be something akin to what ParkMobile has
done for public parking.

~~~
lokedhs
I don't know about cities, they're usually not the ones running the taxis. But
taxi companies most definitely have mobile applications.

In Singapore, the largest taxi company has an application that's much better
than Grab. It's faster, doesn't force you to rate the drivers, and doesn't
bombard you with ads in the notification area.

(yes, I know Grab doesn't force you to do it anymore, but it used to be that
the only way to not rate the driver was to hard kill the application)

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socialtoilet
I'm currently on vacation in "bargaining countries", last in Vietnam. People
use Grab there because they don't want to bargain before going to the cinema.

You can leave a tip - but generally, you pay the price from the app. This is
the damn reason you use the app.

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BryanMMMM
Just don't tip the uber driver. Tipping leads to more discrimination and
confusion.

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mnm1
No, fuck this. You think riders care about their rating? We care about not
having to tip where it's not customary because it's a stupid fucking idea.
It's bad enough you have to tip in the US for restaurants because business
owners are too cheap to pay their workers a living wage and the US doesn't
give a fuck about its people making a living as long as the rich get richer.
Now this stupid custom is even spreading outside the US. I was in Prague and
every restaurant wanted tips. What the fuck? I'm tired of having to pay
others' salary because the fucking laws don't protect people and business
owners prefer it. Fuck them and fuck this tipping culture. Uber drivers don't
do shit to deserve tips and they don't deserve tips. Not killing me is not a
fucking tippable act. It's expected as part of the fucking service. Fuck them
for expecting it and fuck Uber for not paying enough and fuck the government
for not fixing this.

~~~
moron4hire
So without tipping, going to a restaurant, you aren't paying the employee's
salary?

I can see how it can be confusing, the first few times you are in a tipping
situation, coming from a non-tipping culture. But after that, what is the
issue? If the tip is an onerous financial burden, then you shouldn't be eating
out anyway.

I mean, how many times are you going to grumble to yourself, "the bill says x
but I gotta really pay 1.2x" before you just understand that's the way it is.

~~~
mnm1
No, you completely misunderstood and jumped to the wrong conclusion. I have no
problem tipping at restaurants in the US, and I tip well because I realize the
US system and culture are broken. The problem is with this ridiculous system
and culture spreading everywhere else, to other industries and to other
cultures. And no, I'm not paying the employee's salary directly anywhere else.
That's the employer's job. It's absurd to suggest otherwise.

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MisterOctober
This is so much like the Black Mirror episode "Nosedive" that it's almost not
funny

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altmind
I remember days when you can not tip in uber app and It was a articulated
feature that tipping is not requited.

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analognoise
Reading this makes me want self driving cars to put all of these people out of
business ASAP.

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SoulMan
Tipping really makes your budget unpredictable. I am travelling there (not for
the first time) from a country. What's the current tip rate?

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orasis
This type of correlation would be pretty easy for an Uber ML model to detect
and flag those drivers.

~~~
iraklism
Why do we have to “ML” everything? A simple database query should provide good
evidence.

I’m confident that a significant portion of problems that ML is applied to
today can be solved by some Excel sheets.

~~~
steve19
Machine learn is also called statistical learning. It does not mean deep
learning which is a subset of ML.

Creating a model in python or R is going to be much easier than in excel.

~~~
alexgmcm
>Creating a model in python or R is going to be much easier than in excel.

True, but my boss will ask for it in Excel anyway.

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TheHypnotist
The scale one of the posters provides is laughable. Why would they implement
having the driver view the tip prior to rating anyway?

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billpg
Can't drivers just raise their prices?

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entity345
Wait before rating the driver...

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mattsfrey
I might be in the minority but I actually like tipping for good service. It is
personally gratifying to help somebody out that might need it and it rewards
and encourages better service for everyone.

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mchanson
Not tipping is a lazy action where you are taking out your annoyance at the
system on the people who are most damaged by the system. It does nothing to
change the system.

Tip heavy, if you can afford it, and lament how annoying the whole system is
over a drink with friends.

If you really hate it actually take political action (vote, protest, etc.).

~~~
onewhonknocks
Counterpoint: Not tipping IS voting (with your pocketbook).

~~~
apacheCamel
You are then voting by decreasing your waiter/waitress's salaray for the
night. We shouldn't punish the people who depend on the money to live, we
should protest the politicians too worried about corporate money.

