
Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year - reallydontask
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614995/the-rivian-pickups-real-edge-over-teslas-cybertruck-isnt-its-battery/
======
jakelazaroff
_> On Monday, Rivian announced it had raised $1.3 billion in its fourth
funding round of the year, led by T. Rowe Price, bringing its total for 2019
to nearly $2.9 billion._

 _> Rivian has been quietly developing vehicles for a decade, but it seized
the industry’s attention in late 2018, when it unveiled a pair of eye-
catching, high-end electric trucks._

Rivian raised $2.9 billion over _four_ funding rounds in the span of _one
year_? And it's been around for a full decade without ever releasing a
product?

Does this not set off alarm bells?

~~~
electriclove
It is yet another effort (fuel cell, Nikola, lucid, workhorse) by the existing
industry to divert attention and money away from the few players (mainly
Tesla) that are actually delivering battery electric vehicles. /tinfoil

~~~
threeseed
Few players ?

There are are dozens and dozens of companies delivering EV vehicles including
big players like VW, BMW, Porsche, Jaguar, Audi, Volvo etc. Could be even
hundreds based on what what little we know from all of the skunkwork projects.

~~~
sjwright
Half the companies you listed are the same company.

------
crca
I’ve never owned a truck before, mainly for economic/environmental reasons,
but I am extremely interested in an electric truck. I’ve decided to order the
Cybertruck over the Rivian, primarily for 2 reasons:

1) Tesla has a massive charging network that is expanding rapidly

2) The Rivian starts $30k+ higher than the Cybertruck

------
tartrate
I noticed that some of Rivian's promotion videos are CGI, and they are
currently hiring even more CGI artists.

Just look it up if you're doubtful.

------
cavisne
When Tesla did a platform deal in 2010 for the RAV4 they had at least sold a
car to customers.

Why would Ford license a drivetrain from a company thats never shipped a car
when they already have a drivetrain licensing deal with VW (who have at least
sold EV’s).

I predict Rivian will use the deal with Amazon and Ford as an excuse to
“pivot” from shipping any cars to customers, and it’ll be another decade of
prototypes and vague licensing deals that dont generate any revenue.

------
woodandsteel
I'm a huge Tesla fan, but it looks like Rivian has made some very smart moves,
and I hope it's a massive success.

Why do I say that? Because to save the climate we need to move off of fossil
fuel vehicles as fast as possible, and that can happen only if there are lots
of car companies all doing it at once.

Now the problem is so many big car companies don't have their ev programs very
well developed, so it is great there is a pure ev company that is licensing
its well-developed technology out to them so they can get up to speed years
sooner.

------
shrubble
Surprised that no one has yet mentioned the US Postal Service and their fleet
of 30+ year old LLV vehicles.

Surely someone is trying to convince the USPS to upgrade to an EV based
solution? There are 140,000 plus LLVs out there. The last one was made in
1994.

~~~
notatoad
The USPS was supposed to announce their next gen delivery vehicle (NGDV) this
fall, but the decision is pushed back to 2020. There's a small American EV
company called Workhorse among the four contenders for the contract. DHL was
also trialing some Workhorse EVs recently, I'm not sure how that ended up.

[https://www.trucks.com/2019/09/03/postal-service-delays-
new-...](https://www.trucks.com/2019/09/03/postal-service-delays-new-mail-
truck-contract/)

------
kjeetgill
Since this is pulling all the EV experts out of the woodwork, do people have
thoughts on Bollinger Motors' trucks?

I don't follow news on thr subject but they look cool as hell.

[https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/](https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/)

~~~
shiftpgdn
Bollinger is dodging all the safety regulations a normal car manufacturer
would have to deal with by classifying their vehicle as a commercial light
duty truck. It's cool but I think the company is doomed.

~~~
kjeetgill
Huh, I didn't find anything about that from a quick Google. What kind of
regulations does that allow them to skirt?

~~~
shiftpgdn
This is a very wide generalization but effectively no crash testing or safety
equipment.

------
thdrdt
The Rivian is a truck you need, the Tesla is a truck you want.

And the Revian will be road legal in Europe.

~~~
x3haloed
I think it's actually quite the opposite. If you need a truck for its utility
which one makes more sense? The Cybertruck is less expensive, has more range,
bigger payload, higher towing capacity, access to the best charging network in
the world. Why would you buy a Rivian instead? The only reason I can think of
is that it looks more conventional. If you need a truck, you buy the Tesla. If
you want a lifestyle truck that looks pretty, you buy the Rivian.

~~~
thdrdt
When it comes to utility design the Rivian is far far ahead.

It's not about more conventional but about more convenient.

One example: you cannot throw stuff in the back of the Tesla from the side.

And when it comes to towing: nobody will use an electric vehicle yet. You can
buy a gas truck for half the price with the same towing capacity. A gas truck
with the same price as the Tesla will have twice the towing capacity.

~~~
fastball
Have you owned a truck? How often are you throwing things into the bed from
the side? What are these things?

~~~
gamblor956
Yes, literally all the time.

Sports gear, camping equipment, portable chairs, anything soft that can go on
top of other luggage, all go over the side, over the back, however it's most
convenient.

More importantly though, is that a lot of this gear is _removed_ from the
truck over the side, especially at the beach or on the mountain or at a
trailhead, where I'm parallel-parked and can't easily remove items out of the
back.

------
abledon
Bonus: They get free marketing with the success of Netflix's The Witcher

------
AtlasBarfed
... Aren't all the Teslas skateboard design? Isn't the skateboard design the
basic EV design since the EV prototypes from the 90s?

This seems basically like a Rivian press release reprinted.

~~~
jcims
Yeah I think the innovation here is in the business model, not the
engineering.

I really do like the four motor design on the Rivian platform though. It opens
up a lot of possibilities for improved performance/handling/safety and off-
road capability. The 'tank turn' demo is kind of a gimmick but also not -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzwM8KE2L3I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzwM8KE2L3I)

Edit: Add mecanum wheels and you could strafe (at least until they fell
apart): [https://youtu.be/snbiKkxPgig](https://youtu.be/snbiKkxPgig)

~~~
gpm
Would the "tank turn" work on asphalt? Or would that be too much friction for
the tires?

~~~
x3haloed
It might work, but Rivian has said that it should not be used on asphalt due
to tire damage and maybe damage to other vehicle components.

------
fnord77
holy dilution. those poor option-holders.

------
leesec
Lol this company is so obviously going to fail and people are still throwing
money at it.

------
DenisM
While a 4-motor design allows this really cool tank-turn trick, it also
prevents torque transfer between wheels / axes.

Some "pedestrian" SUVs today allow transferring up to 70% of all available
torque to any single wheel if situation demands. A 4-motor design is limited
to 25%.

~~~
pa7ch
When you have a truck with 700hp and 800 ft lbs torque, you are only using all
that power in good traction situations. I don't think you'll need more then
25% power per wheel with traction in slippery situations.

Also, in bad traction situations open diffs have the issue of transferring all
the power to the wheel without grip and much engineering is put into solving
this on off road vehicles. A 4 motor electric car solves this while being
mechanically much simpler and likely lighter.

------
xenospn
I think most hype over EVs is a direct result of the Tesla stock price and
people upset they missed their chance to buy it when it was $20. Probably
nothing to do with Rivian or their tech - they just want "the next Tesla".

~~~
Zanni
No, the hype is over the vehicles themselves. EVs are the future. And, as
William Gibson famously said, "The future is already here, it's just unevenly
distributed." Once you experience the quiet, convenience and power of an EV,
it's hard to go back to an ICE car. We're already past the early-adopter
phase. Improvements in price, range and charging infrastructure (already
happening) will capture everyone else.

~~~
seriesf
The EV market has already hit a plateau, suggesting that it has exhausted the
customer base for very expensive cars with short ranges. September 2019 sales
were down (US and global) vs 2018, and 2019 Q3 sales were down vs Q3 2018 as
well (also for the US and globally). These sales figures suggest that EVs need
something new, like lower prices or more utility, to start growing again.

~~~
muzika
IDK where you got these numbers, Teslas are selling better right now (q4 2019)
than ever before.

~~~
seriesf
[https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-
sales-s...](https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-sales-
scorecard/)

------
hansdieter1337
Sounds familiar to NIO. They raised a total of $4.1B. This whole electric hype
is interesting to me. Why is it better for the environment? In the end you
drive around with however the power from the grid was produced. Even in
California that’s only one third renewables. Most is natural gas and nuclear.
So, your electric car is driving around with natural gas with an efficiency
way worse than petroleum. Besides, disposing the batteries is an issue. Also,
the required rare earths might become an issue (especially because China kind
of owns the market).

~~~
cududa
See the first chart on this page. [https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air/electric-
vehicles](https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air/electric-vehicles)

