
The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming - j32fun
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-04-23/china-s-carmakers-want-to-dominate-world-s-next-era-of-driving
======
beebmam
If global markets aren't transforming China out of totalitarianism, then
morally, shouldn't we stop assisting the economic development of China?

I'm horrified by some of the stories I've been told by my Chinese co-workers.
Threats of violence to family members (for speaking freely) by the Chinese
government is extremely common.

~~~
elvirs
America has killed quite a few million people during its delivering democracy
to the desert adventures in just last one decade. Pretty sure its more than
what Chinese have done by a magnitude of 10x. Have you considered consuming
less American made products?

~~~
FreeTradeMess
So we should boycott american companies for the democracy seeking missions of
our government How does that make sense? If you don't like what our leaders
are doing, vote and campaign for someone else. That isn't an option for the
Chinese people (at least not for those who like to live). The government will
only change if they feel a pain in their pocketbook.

~~~
wor3q
I'm pretty sure, that Syrians didn't elect US government...

------
doesnt_know
I didn't know this was controversial in any way, they've been in the Oceania
market for some time.

My wife and I own a Chery J3, purchased it new. It came with a 3 year
mechanical warranty plus other benefits for like half the price of a Japanese
car.

I mean, it's pretty obviously catering for the "budget" market, it is
literally the cheapest new car you can buy in the country. But it has suited
our needs and we're actually a bit attached to the stupid thing.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery)

~~~
2RTZZSro
The Chery J3 costs just as much as the Japanese car if not more. The catch is
when you crash you pay with your life. The J3 has very poor body integrity in
an accident. It should be pulled from all markets immediately. If you value
life you should immediately get rid of this car.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naUWH8Scc80](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naUWH8Scc80)

~~~
doesnt_know
Are you sure you're describing the same car as I am? It's called a J3 in my
country, but appears to be labelled differently internationally. It's also a
2016 model.

Chery A3, M11, Cielo etc.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery_A3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery_A3)

> The Chery J3 costs just as much as the Japanese car if not more.

You're really not correct on this. Some of the budget Japanese models come
close, they are between 5-7k more in local currency. The popular "standard"
Japanese models really are twice the price. The South Korean "Kia" is probably
the close in terms of pricing/competition.

Have a look through the AA new car price list:

[https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/buying-a-car/car-buying-
guide/new-...](https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/buying-a-car/car-buying-guide/new-
cars/new-car-prices/)

We're talking 16k NZD for the Cherry compared to anywhere between 22k - 32k
for Japanese models. Maybe you could find some random model that comes close,
but we couldn't "out in the wild" when we were shopping.

~~~
2RTZZSro
Those few thousand dollars saved are not worth the higher risk (and the risk
is high)

------
FreakyT
Interestingly, in Chile (and possibly other South American countries, perhaps
someone else can weigh in) you can already buy Chinese car brands at dealers.

I was told that BYD vehicles are the cheapest option but also have terrible
reliability.

~~~
elvirs
Russia and I think all post Soviet countries. Turkey and most of the middle
East countries are full of chinese cars. I think developed countries will lose
the markets where they used to sell their older off lease cars to. Eastern
European countries are literally Germany & France's junk yard. Looks like
thats about to change

~~~
moltar
Not going to change for a bit. There’s still the fallout from Dieselgate. All
of those cars are ending up for peanuts in Eastern Europe. My friend from
Ukraine was quoting me insanely low prices for premium cars in Ukraine. And
that’s with their super high tax rate.

Also, Eastern Europeans like to show off. Car is a major status symbol.
Driving a Chinese car is a hair above driving a Soviet car. So anyone who can
afford anything better will not buy it.

~~~
elvirs
showing off is huge in that part of the world. they will prefer a 20 year old
bmw thats falling apart, makes all kind of noises and stinks gasoline rather
than get behind a wheel of a newer economy Hyundai

~~~
moltar
Exactly. And provided that premium class cars are now a quarter of the price
just a few years ago, who in their right mind would get a new Kia vs a 3yo
Audi/BMW.

------
amriksohata
You have to love how threatened people feel by China rising, words like
"invasion" and "human rights". How do we think The United States rose or
Britain? When they became the biggest superpowers? Just look at the migration
of Europeans into the Wild West and how they took the Natives land from them,
or the slave trade etc. I'm not saying that makes them any better, but it's
just odd how we sometimes perceive ourselves better just because now after all
those years we are trying to teach the world our mistakes but oh no you're not
allowed to grow!

------
grecy
When it came to Australia it essentially forced the closure of the Ford and
Holden (GM) vehicle design and factories.

You can buy a brand new Chinese car with a 3 year warranty for less than the
depreciation on a new Ford/GM/Toyota would be in 2 years.

So after 3 years you can literally drive the Chinese vehicle to the dump and
buy another one, and you're still up financially.

Reviews so far say they're cheap, you get what you pay for, but they work and
are reliable enough.

~~~
dnomad
I've noticed Australians and many others will go out of their way to _not_ buy
Chinese-made. It's a bit crazy. People, especially some Chinese themselves in
certain cities, will go out of their way to spend a bunch of many on expensive
Japanese and American cars when you can get a an equivalent Chinese vehicle
for literally a third of the price. You've got to hand it to the car
companies, they've done a very, very good job convincing people that their car
is a status symbol just as important as their house.

~~~
hvidgaard
If it's 1/3 of the price, I'm 100% sure it's not even remotely as safe. I
don't buy many cars, but spend enough time in them that safety matters to me.
That some Chinese avoid them when they can is very telling about the cars.

------
rmason
If China was serious they'd market solely electric cars to get a toehold in
the American market.

I can hear a dealer now telling a prospect, you can wait another two years for
a Model 3 or buy ours and drive it home tonight. There's a pent up demand for
battery powered cars under $40K.

A Chinese SUV? It would have to be rather compelling to take a chance.

------
gojomo
Will it be dockless rent-by-the-minute electric hatchbacks on every block?
Please let it be dockless rent-by-the-minute electric hatchbacks on every
block.

~~~
threeseed
This already exists today in many countries e.g. Australia.

Most of the cars aren't electric but some are.

------
adrianN
Good. Maybe some real competition can shake up the established car
manufacturers. Right now they have to be forced by the government to modernize
their lineup wrt emissions. I can't wait for cheap Chinese EVs in inner
cities.

------
Theodores
In big Chinese cities it costs you the equivalent of many thousands of dollars
to get a licence plate. Without that city plate you cannot drive in the city
during rush hour, you have to have a city plate.

Typically electric cars and plug in hybrids are exempt from the scheme. This
means that if you live in Shenzen and want to get around then you can see if
you win the lottery of licence plates and are allowed to pay $10K to join the
club, or you just get an electric car.

The electric cars are better than the old fashioned cars with better ride
quality due to the battery weight, better turning circles due to no huge motor
between the front wheels, spritely acceleration off the line (if not at
highway speeds), plus silence when waiting at the lights. This is a civilised
experience and people don't go back to noisy motors with 'stick shift'
involvement in driving. Much like how people did not go back to the horse when
the car came along. A cheap basic car is better than a horse with fluffy
cushions.

China are leading the way on this electric car revolution, they are doing
great with their domestic market and when the rest of the world goes electric
the Chinese brands will have quite an advantage.

In Europe a lot of fanfare was made about Jaguar and their electric SUV, which
is not out yet. It will be contract manufactured by Magna in Graz Austria, not
made in Jaguar's own factory in Birmingham.

The Nissan Leaf (new version) is a car well suited to Western markets and
built by Nissan/Renault rather than outsourced. A very nice product, as is the
BMW i3, but it seems that the Chinese really have a better product for the
market - affordable!

Tesla have shown that car interiors do not have to be 'luxury leather' with a
massive console thing, dashboard resembling a radiogram from the 1950's, silly
carpets everywhere topped out with chintzy bling trim.

The budget Chinese cars have none of the 'luxury trim' with hard plastics
everywhere. However the experience is actually civilised, no noise, no
rattles, lots of interior space. So owners are quite willing to forget the
fluffier aspects of old fashioned cars.

There is no range anxiety either, if you are going to drive all day to get
somewhere you just get a plane instead and get your day back.

~~~
astkaasa
Just to be clear, Shanghai is the one and only city where license plate cost
thousands of dollars.

~~~
rasz
sure
[http://www.eyeshenzhen.com/content/2017-12/27/content_181168...](http://www.eyeshenzhen.com/content/2017-12/27/content_18116800.htm)

------
stretchwithme
I'll stick with Japanese cars. I've been driving Toyotas for 35 years. And
they're an ally.

My hope is that China will moderate and become less authoritarian and less of
a threat to its neighbors. Most countries have over time.

And I hope the US will be less involved in foreign military adventures.
There's no doubt in my mind that much of what dictators do is driven by what
we do.

I also believe that trade helps prevent war. We tend to not go to war with
countries with whom we have many profitable relationships.

~~~
latch
> less of a threat to its neighbors

Doesn't China have a exceedingly good record here? Quick googling suggest it
has had no major (and certainly no unilateral) military conflicts in the last
30 years. Military build up seems reasonable given the situation in Korea,
Pakistan and India, the growing isolation of Russia, and America's continued
military "adventures." It's claims in the south china sea do seem out of
character, but we live in a world where might is right.

~~~
arvinjoar
You can't look only at track record. Afaik they have an unreasonable amount of
infantry for purely defensive purposes. They're #3 globally in terms of
firepower, of course they won't create trouble until they're reasonably sure
they'll come out ahead. Once they're more powerful economically and militarily
you'll have a an unscrupulous nation, with a dictator for life, capable of
very long-term planning, leading a pretty explicitly racist people in need of
massive amounts of natural resources.

So yeah, even though they're not currently adventurous militarily, I wouldn't
count on that being the case forever.

------
rlglwx
Whenever you read an article like this ask yourself why it hasn’t happened
yet. Geely, Great Wall and numerous other Chinese domestic brands have been
operating for decades. Why haven’t they cracked the USA market?

The dealer network system in the United States.

~~~
pzone
Then why don't you see them in Europe either?

~~~
osivertsson
Probably due to strict safety and environmental regulations that gets stricter
over time.

------
mc32
While Chinese cars will prove to be worthy competitors to American (and
European) domestic MFGS --I imagine the threat to Japanese and Korean
manufacturers in overseas markets will be very significant, since many of
those markets don't have a "domestic brand" they have an affinity to.

------
sunstone
It may be coming but it's unlikely to be coming to North America, Europe and
India any time soon. After having been forced to turn over their technology to
China to enter its market these countries are not willingly going to turn
around and buy that technology back in their own markets.

------
thisisit
Does anyone know how much of current US/European cars use Chinese parts? I
think if current car manufacturers are already dependent on Chinese parts,
then we are not having much of an "invasion" really.

~~~
rasz
Tesla does, alu profiles are from China.

------
2RTZZSro
No, it's not. Chinese cars will not pass US safety regulations for a long time
and at a high cost.

~~~
moltar
Of course they will. The reason they are not safe is not because they don’t
know how to make a safe car. It’s because the requirements were not there
before. Why build it safer at an expense, if you don’t have to.

Montréal company is already in the process of importing BYD electric cars for
taxis.

[http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/03/05/teo-taxi-aura-
un...](http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/03/05/teo-taxi-aura-un-nouveau-
competiteur-a-montreal)

Our rules in Canada are just as strict as in US. So if they can do it - anyone
can do it.

