
Maintaining the integrity of our community - lolptdr
https://blog.udemy.com/maintaining-the-integrity-of-our-udemy-community/
======
gamesbrainiac
> Many of you have asked about what happened to the money received from Troy’s
> course. There was none. As the fraudulent instructor had created coupon
> codes to allow students free access to the course, no money was exchanged in
> this process.

This puts a lot of context to the whole thing. However, I find it hard to
believe that this happened for _every_ plagiarized course.

~~~
nostalgiac
There's still the issue of the people receiving the content freely when they
should have payed (even though it's not their fault).

~~~
tombrossman
Exactly. Imagine I ripped a MPAA film DVD and distributed via free coupon
codes to users of this service. Think any lawyers would have an issue or would
they go 'oh, no money changed hands' and give it a pass?

Also, they used the boilerplate 'taking it seriously' twice, including the
second sentence. Can corporate PR people please stop with this silliness? It
seems like it is in every press release ever.

~~~
ps4fanboy
The MPAA would most likely go after supplier not the store, the MPAA would
have to prove the store knew the products where duplicated/reproduced.

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vonklaus
copyright is hard. If you just blindly accept DMCA takedown notices you become
an avenue for trolls, overzealous lawyers and predatory companies. However, if
you do nothing, people will pirate shit and sell it on your platform. "I steal
music, but I don't resell it" is a shitty argument I saw someone make earlier.

I steal content all the time. It is wrong, but I do it anyway. If I create
content that can be copied in a frictionless way, I know it will be stolen, I
will expect it and I will be pissed.

What do the people who are criticizing udemy want them to do? Bias towards
dropping all speculative content? That would make it very hard to onboard new
users, lead to abuse, and lead to dead-links and ephemeral content.

Do what they are doing now? Trying to take content down that is known to be
copied, especially when it is pointed out publcily. Obviously, it is good from
a biz standpoint they want to make money, protect their reputation and not
have to hire a ton of mechanical turk workers to prowl all social media.

so what do you want? The world could use an awesome answer to copywrite
issues, but there is no easy answer, it is hard to automate, and that is just
a reality that we will have to live with for a while into the future.

~~~
briandear
It's easy: a DMCA takedown ought to require proof of infringement: the burden
being on the license holder. As it is now, it's takedown first then the poster
of the content must prove their rights. Many of my music producer friends have
had their own content pulled on Soundcloud, despite them having both created
the song and owned the label that released it!

~~~
lips
I think there's at least as much progress to be made via platforms developing
solution systems, ala CAPTCHA, password _reset_ emails, the verification
system used on swappa.com, "salutes" (verification selfie), verification
files... Could udemy only accept videos that have a visual/verbal confirmation
"leader" attached with the submission? Yes, confirmation via voice is absurd -
but it's a relatively minor obstacle in creation/submission, and quickly
triaged for missing or egregiously obvious fakes. This is _not_ some
incredible idea, but my point is that when it matters to the web, the web can
sometimes create accurate widely adaptable solutions, instead of intractable
legalese. The question is, when will piracy (capital M) matter on a cultural
level, vs. primarily being a concern of groups that are sometimes not even
acting in the best interest of the people they represent.

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erikb
Yeah, that's a joke.

What would a good article look like where the company claimed to be at fault
handles the case well? (1) They give an overview of all the claims that are in
public discussion and not just one that they finally handled, (2) then they
show being actually sorry for having pissed off people so badly that it became
a global discussion, and (3) then they show some points about what they will
do to reduce the chance of this happening again.

~~~
iaw
There seemed to be a pattern of abuse going on at Udemy that was described in
the comment thread on the original article link on HN. This post addresses the
article that was linked, but does not address the concerns raised in the
thread.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
I think the wider concerns were addressed with "We'll look at this and get
back to you."

Which can be interpreted in any number of ways - some generous, some less so.

Personally I'm not yet convinced. Udemy makes its instructors jump through all
kinds of hoops when they upload courses.

And yet plainly the QC process _doesn 't include any checks for duplication or
piracy._

This seems strange, and not entirely believable.

But we'll see what happens next week.

------
abcd_f
> _Over the Thanksgiving holiday, there has been discussion online about_
> POTENTIALLY _plagiarized content on Udemy._

Integrity is just gushing.

~~~
sukulaku
Yeah, some content _MAY_ have been plagiarized, _maybe_!

 _" We're sorry you FEEL THAT WAY about any inconvenience we MAY have
caused!"_

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ps4fanboy
Anyone still not happy here should provide a detailed explanation on what they
would do differently, instead of decrying the company.

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MarkvW
How does DMCA work when the site watermarks the posted content with the site's
own brand?

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njsubedi
> "...welcome any person who has a question, comment or issue to be discussed
> reach out to support@udemy.com." Well, it would be much better to have a
> comment thread below the blog post itself so we could learn what everyone
> has to say?

------
yarou
Empty promises given by a morally bereft company.

These types of companies are the ones we should crucify and condemn.

~~~
RyJones
What more do you want? They got the DMCA notice, they took the content down.

~~~
x0x0
At bare minimum, not allow the same content to be repeatedly uploaded?

I understand they are somewhat restricted by what they can do because of the
DMCA, but afaik it's kosher to, once material is DMCAd, fingerprint it and
never publish it again. In the article that seems to have kicked this PR stuff
off, it references @jeffrey_way claiming his stuff has been repeatedly
uploaded.

[https://medium.com/@robconery/how-udemy-is-profiting-from-
pi...](https://medium.com/@robconery/how-udemy-is-profiting-from-
piracy-5638b929ffca)

viz

[https://twitter.com/jeffrey_way/status/649933605305774081](https://twitter.com/jeffrey_way/status/649933605305774081)

~~~
HappyTypist
DMCA certainly does not restrict the ability of service providers to
proactively screen and remove content (see: YouTube's content ID).

Udemy can hire one full time employee to quickly Google the name of all new
uploaded courses, and this will catch the vast majority of plagiarism.

~~~
x0x0
My understanding, as provided by counsel, is that proactively looking for
material and missing it could expose the company to liability that would not
be present if we did not actively look. Fingerprinting and permanent banning
of DMCAd material did not. Yes this is a weird set of incentives but I didn't
write the law.

~~~
erdojo
This is my least favorite part of the DMCA law (which overall I support). But
it is true - if Udemy starts proactively screening, they could easily lose
Safe Harbor.

However, they may be in a bit of a pickle. Because the DMCA also doesn't allow
for "willful blindness". Meaning if they know it's happening, know where it's
happening and simply let it happen, they also lose Safe Harbor.

