

Nootropics aren't just for tech millionaires - geoffwoo
http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/12/nootropics-arent-just-for-tech-millionaires/

======
cryoshon
This article sucks, and is basically marketing for the new wave of nootropic
companies. I think nootropic use is an issue that will enter the societal
conversation relatively soon, but it's important to note that for the most
part, the younger generation has already gone half-in on nootropic use-- while
many were non-consensually plied with nootropics by their parents/teachers to
increase their productivity, nearly all have experimented with nootropics to
some degree on their own, even if it's just with coffee. I am of the opinion
that a good place for us to land would be the removal of any and all limits on
what a person is allowed to consume in the name of self-modification, so long
as it doesn't hurt anyone other than the user. In practice, most nootropics
are whitemarket or greymarket, with a number of notable entries being
prescription-only.

Nootropics are for everyone, and always have been due to the fact that having
greater cognitive ability is a large factor in success at most tasks.

Coffee (caffeine) is the most consumed nootropic in the history of the planet,
and is probably the safest. There are probably a number of other equally
useful yet harmless compounds out there that are ripe for discovery, but I
wouldn't exactly put my money on the options that this article suggests.

I've experimented with nootropics extensively, and here are some of my
findings:

1\. Piracetam makes me very spacey and distant

2\. Modafinil is good for staying awake without jitters, but otherwise useless

3\. Adderall is too stimulative and leads to jittery, coked-out thoughts

4\. Caffeine is a winner

5\. Weed improves creativity but makes tracing the logical steps of your
thoughts more difficult

6\. Fish oil helps reduce skin dryness but nothing else that is detectable

~~~
geoffwoo
The broad stroke of your thinking is in line with ours -- it'll be inevitable.
However, we do think it's important to start the dialogue and bring in policy
makers as nootropics get more mainstream and as more exotic,
unregulated/prescription drugs get roped into the scene. For example, sourcing
unregulated research chemicals from labs in China or India zip-tied up in
large, plastic baggies is sketchy. Bringing nootropics out of their current
'homebrew' status will really push the market forward.

You should try your caffeine with l-theanine if you don't like an over-
stimulated, jittery effect. l-theanine is a pro-drug for GABA, crosses the
blood-brain barrier, and is shown to ameliorate some of the edge off
stimulants. Our indiegogo campaign for SPRINT makes it really easy to use:
[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sprint-declaring-war-
on-a...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sprint-declaring-war-on-
adderall/x/9738017)

~~~
cryoshon
L-theanine has been on my list for a while. I agree that random RCs from
Chinese factoring labs are likely to lead to people getting hurt, but right
now, that's part of the game that people are willing to play to get an edge
when stuff like Adderall (the layman's view of a nootropic holy grail) is
illegal without a scrip. Legal and safe nootropics are a good goal to work
for, but frankly I wouldn't expect any kind of legislative proactiveness on
it-- wait until kids are dying or getting maimed by mystery RCs, because that
is when their backlash against nootropics will come.

I checked out your indiegogo campaign and noticed the following:

"Geoff and I have been friends since going to college at Stanford, where we
both studied Computer Science. We've scored 99th %ile on the big 4 tests: ACT,
SAT, GRE, and GMAT. We know how to work and excel in some of the most
challenging, demanding, and exciting academic environments in the world."

Do either of you have any kind of experience in neurobiology, biochemistry, or
physiology? I understand that your product is basically a repackaging of
confirmed-safe chemicals, but without some actual background knowledge your
chemical ratios as well as pathway optimization will be mostly guesswork...

------
6stringmerc
What a terrible article. It takes all the interesting parts regarding
psychonaut exploration / mind expansion, frames it in "revolutionary" terms
because of an association with technology, and ends with the banal conclusion
of "More research in this field is necessary." Could get about a B in a high
school English class though.

Citing Reddit is interesting, if there wasn't something called Erowid that was
trying to do research / public service for years and years and years...there's
some great potential in learning more about the mind and the substances that
can enhance talents or treat issues, but I'm inherently skeptical that the
VC/SV environment is to be trusted with that kind of "disruption." Can't even
re-invent the taxi service without protocols to prevent kidnapping and/or
trust the leadership not to race-to-the-bottom by digging up dirt on critics.
Yeah, anecdotal, but relevant to my trust factor.

~~~
geoffwoo
Sorry you feel that way. As TechCrunch / HN is a predominantly Silicon Valley
centered community, we grounded the current work in nootropics with analogies
and metaphors that make sense in the tech world today. I think this biohacking
/ nootropics ties into the broader context of the quantified self theme that
many, many technologists are working on.

~~~
6stringmerc
Yeah, well, not mentioning Erowid is pretty counter-intuitive to the entire
article. It's ignorance dressed up as education. The path has already been
started long before VC/SV smelled something interesting. Maybe if VC/SV had a
great track record in investing in actual research science, which in fairness
is being choked and driving people out of the profession, then maybe there'd
be some hope. Thus far, I see far more risk than reward in complimenting or
encouraging the VC/SV community to pursue this field.

Also, citing movies like _Lucy_ and _Limitless_ just feels juvenile. Why not
strap on _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ for some counter balance? Drugs is
drugs is drugs...

~~~
geoffwoo
I'd say erowid leans more heavily towards recreational drugs which is out of
the scope of what we wanted to talk about, but note taken. Definitely will
shoutout erowid in any future discussions.

Lucy and Limitless were used as a writing hook - cheesiness noted, but they're
relevant and accessible examples of how nootropics are entering the mainstream
consciousness.

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acconrad
This user submitted for the same company 2 days ago[1] and was subsequently
flag-killed, it's no surprised that they sponsored to write this article for
TechCrunch as well.

Their product is Bacopa + L-Theanine + Caffeine, which other than the
caffeine, shows little nootropic properties. L-Theanine has only been weakly
shown to relax people, and has had no scientific consensus that it improves
attention.[2] Bacopa has only 1 study citing any enhancements from attention,
but those people had ADD; the only positive was a majority consensus that
bacopa enhanced memory, but required significant (4-6 weeks) dosage in order
to see measurable results.[3]

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9028594](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9028594)

[2]
[http://examine.com/supplements/Theanine/](http://examine.com/supplements/Theanine/)

[3]
[http://examine.com/supplements/Bacopa+monnieri/](http://examine.com/supplements/Bacopa+monnieri/)

------
plus
I remain unconvinced that Nootrobox's mixture of caffeine, green tea extract,
and herbal supplements is anything more than an expensive stay-awake pill.

~~~
therealdrag0
I looked into (and did a trial of) truBrain (trubrain.com). They seem to be
trying hard to be authentic and have scientific integrity, which is nice in
this industry. But still when I looked into the research behind their
ingredients, most of the support was more along the lines of 'keeping your
sanity while aging', which is great, but not exactly what a a 30 yr old is
looking for. I think I'll keep my money for a while as the nootropic field
matures.

~~~
geoffwoo
Yes, I encourage you to do your own research. A lot of the chemicals have not
been formally studied on a significant group of healthy adults. A lot of the
models in studies are mice models or alzheimer patients, etc.

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atomical
These articles inevitability gloss over a lot of the newer, higher risk,
compounds that are used.

~~~
geoffwoo
We're working with TechCrunch on a more in-depth series of posts, including
one that will cover the classification and regulation around the three broad
classes of compounds: 'supplements', 'prescription', and 'unregulated'
research chemicals. We'll get into the world of noopept, piracetam, and DARPA-
funded peptides etc. for you guys.

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jsonne
This is interesting. I've dabbled with nootropics for reducing anxiety and
helping with sleep, and I've been rather pleased with the results. This is
obviously anecdotal, and could well be a placebo, but frankly I don't care.
Whether or not it "works" the effects have been positive for me.

~~~
geoffwoo
Curious what compounds you've dabbled with.

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tek-cyb-org
Link bait?

~~~
geoffwoo
Hard to cite sources if we don't link to it!

