
We should host the Olympics in the same place every time - evanb
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/28/we-should-host-the-olympics-in-the-same-place-every-time/?postshare=1821439596233823
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braythwayt
I think this is a piece of learned trolling, satire designed to provoke us
into thinking hard about what the IOC really is.

The IOC profits from the selection process as much as it does from the games.
The bribes, the payments, everything involved in this horrible “competition”
fills their coffers with money.

If the games were held in the same place every year, there would be no bribes
to rig bids. There would be no construction companies and other contractors to
pony up black bags full of money to ensure their place at the trough.

There would also be no pressure on governments to pretend the games are a
success. Every country hosting the games is under enormous pressure to brag
about how wonderful the games are. They spend hundreds of millions promoting
the games that they spend billions supporting.

All that would go away if the games were held in a permanent facility.

~~~
pakled_engineer
The local politicians in my city that lured the IOC here through bribes were
all later parachuted into lucrative foreign service diplomatic posts and
various IOC connected director positions after. That's the true legacy of the
games, the politicians raise their profile, network with the world's elite and
move into international politics while the rest of us pay for their
promotions.

Having the winter olympics in Switzerland only would make sense, easy to
secure, neutral country, no forced relocation of "undesireables" like when
Beijing shipped every Mongolian migrant laborer out of the city, or when my
government mass imprisoned as many homeless as they could by picking them all
up for unpaid fines.

No country would have an edge with exclusive track access for months before
allowing competitor teams in to practice either.

~~~
MichaelGG
Better yet, do what you can to ignore and shun these corrupt proceedings. The
Olympics depends on people treating it as something special. Same for FIFA.
Mock people wearing Qatar shirts, just as you would someone promoting
homeopathy.

~~~
paganel
> Mock people wearing Qatar shirts, just as you would someone promoting
> homeopathy.

I don't this ending well. First of all, the athletes should not get involved
in any of this politics stuff. Second, it is well known that all the World Cup
and Olympic Games tournaments post 1990 (at least) were awarded based on
corruption, even the 2006 World Cup hosted in Germany. So, I don't see any
reason to single out the Qataris.

~~~
joshkpeterson
Have you not read about what is going on in Qatar??

~~~
paganel
Of course I have. But where do we stop? Should we also ban the USA from
organizing a future World Cup tournament because of its disastrous foreign
policy which has caused unnecessary deaths numbering more than 1 million
people in the last 15-20 years? Should we ban Russia from hosting the 2018
World Cup because of its Ukraine policy? And so on and so on.

------
Gys
'How about selling a permanent site in Greece for the Summer Olympics ? An
uninhabited island would be ideal, not too far from the coast accessible by
ferries as well as planes.'

'The original Olympics was held in Olympia, Greece for 800 years. The changing
site is a modern phenomenon used to spread support in the early stages of the
modern Olympic movement. Why not return the Games to their real roots?'

Good arguments (if ever that would even matter to the people in charge ;-) and
great idea.

~~~
dghughes
The original Olympic games were held in honour of Zeus (God) so really the
games should be held in the Mount Athos region of Greece an autonomous
monastic stare in Greece.

What better place to hold games originally religious in nature from Greece
than this region?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos)

~~~
thaumasiotes
> The original Olympic games were held in honour of Zeus (God) so really the
> games should be held in the Mount Athos region of Greece an autonomous
> monastic stare in Greece.

I don't follow the "logic" here at all. What makes Mount Athos more
appropriate than, say, Olympia, the traditional site of the Olympic games?

~~~
dghughes
User Gys (above) suggested an uninhabited island but the Mount Athos region is
pretty sparse 126 sq miles and 1800 people living there, still technically
Greece but not Mount Olympus although sort of near it (100 miles away).

I don't mean literally on Mount Athos but in the autonomous region.

Plus being an autonomous region I thought it may more sense financially for
taxes.

------
lordnacho
I'd be all for it. A permanent site can rely on repeat business and a
permanent economy can grow around it. A sort of Mecca for sports.

The current process is a shambles. It's basically about telling the world how
prosperous the host is, and for the IOC members it's all about milking the
process for money. You end up building a ghost town someplace every four years
at huge cost.

I suppose the same arguments apply for the winter olympics. They have
mountains and snow in Greece too, so how about building twin sites?

~~~
kiiski
Wouldn't having it in the same place every time make it more
expensive/difficult for people to go see the games live? When the location
changes every time, there will be a different set of people who go watch the
games because it's nearby, but who possibly couldn't afford to (or wouldn't
want to) travel to the other side of the world for them.

~~~
lordnacho
I don't think distance is all that big a deal. Sure, you can't just drive
there if it isn't near, but for most people the Olympics is a once-in-a-
lifetime experience that they're willing to take a week off to visit. No
different from any other trip, eg people will come to Paris from Australia
just to see the Eiffel tower and the Notre Dame. Why wouldn't they fly to some
other town to see the Olympics?

And let's face it: you have to be from a wealthy country to be able to do this
in any case.

------
paulsutter
This is a really good idea.

\- Olympic construction could only be a real benefit to a permanent location

\- Greece is the only logical location

\- Greece could use the stimulus

I spend a lot of time in Tokyo but plan to avoid the city during the 2020
Olympics. High prices and crowds, a mess. And presently the upcoming Olympics
completely distorts the market for construction, for facilities that will
hardly be used after 2020.

And its a great idea to develop tourism in Greece. Assuming the Greeks like
it, I'm all in favor.

~~~
rdl
Greece for summer, maybe Canada or Norway for winter?

------
jordank
Or alternatively, why must the Olympics be held in one place at all? The
infrastructural burdens of large events are massive. The World Cup distributes
this burden throughout cities and even regions.

~~~
bluedevil2k
The World Cup requires a country to have 10-14 stadiums when only 2-4 games
are played a day. There's no reason for more than 4 stadiums.

~~~
allendoerfer
For most European countries this is not a problem. Each club which plays in
its countries top division already has a big enough dedicated football
stadium.

It becomes a problem when you let FIFA bribe BRIC or even third world country
politicians (or vice versa). Then you get stadiums located in deserts or
rainforests without a club nearby that is even remotely capable of filling it
on a weekly basis.

I like what the UEFA (Europe's FIFA) is doing here: Bigger countries get to
host the European Championship on their own, smaller countries share it,
lately Poland + Ukraine and Switzerland + Austria. From 2020 on the Cup will
not take place in a single country anymore, instead cities will apply on their
own, which is of course impractical for the World Cup or even continental cups
on bigger continents.

~~~
rospaya
> For most European countries this is not a problem. Each club which plays in
> its countries top division already has a big enough dedicated football
> stadium.

Most in this case is maybe 5-6. Even in rich football countries like Germany,
not every 1st tier club has a 40k+ stadium.

~~~
allendoerfer
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_stadiums_in_G...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_stadiums_in_Germany)

Edit: Sorry, I read your comment to quickly, thought you were saying, that
there are only 5-6 stadiums that big in Germany.

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mc32
I'm glad Boston too a stand and bowed out. I'm just hopeful SF can withstand
the temptation. LA, well, it's a lost cause anyway.

My hope is Boston's decision gets people to scrutinize the Olympics because as
claimed, it seems the benefits are outweighed by the opportunity loss of the
diverted funds, etc.

For an example of the waste produced by hosting these large sporting events
one only needs to look at the past world cup in Brazil --stadiums in the
middle of very low population density. A total waste of capital and labor.

~~~
Aloha
Los Angeles could actually do the Olympics I without loosing money, or
building all new venues, as they've hosted twice before, 1932 and 1984.

~~~
adventured
Plus they're about to build a massive new NFL stadium. They wouldn't lack for
venues most likely.

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StavrosK
I'm sure the IOC will be all for greatly reducing its massive profits and
increasing its now nonexistent costs!

------
cosarara97
Barcelona '92 was handled pretty well. The facilities are still used, the
built housing was sold after the games, and tourism augmented significantly.
It could be the exception to the rule.

~~~
Gys
This article is about the costs involved. How do you mean 'handled pretty
well' ?! I think you have no idea what you are talking about and did not
bother to spend a few seconds to look for facts ?

'The cost of the Barcelona Summer Olympics was USD11.4 billion (in 2009
dollars). The cost overrun was 417 percent in real terms. This compares with
an average cost of USD5.7 billion (in 2009 dollars) for other summer Olympics
over the past 50 years for which data are available and an average cost
overrun for these Games of 252 per cent. Cost here includes only sports-
related costs and thus does not include other public costs, such as road,
rail, or airport infrastructure, or private costs, such as hotel upgrades or
other business investments incurred in preparation of the Games, which are
typically substantial but which vary drastically from city to city and are
difficult to compare consistently.'

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Summer_Olympics#Cost_and_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Summer_Olympics#Cost_and_cost_overrun)

~~~
rospaya
The Olympics are more than the direct cost of infrastructure or tickets sold.

Barcelona was hugely changed by the 1992 Games and was transformed into one of
the richest cities in Europe and one of the most visited spots on Earth. It's
significance, quality of life and wealth grew because of the event.

That's the point of most Olympic events, as former London mayor Ken
Livingstone said it: It's not about three weeks of sports, it's about getting
funds to rebuild your city. A lot of them don't pull it off, but Barcelona for
one did it fine.

~~~
caminante
> _The Olympics are more than the direct cost of infrastructure or tickets
> sold..._

I don't think that anyone would argue that Barcelona was a success relative to
other Olympics, but it still left much to be desired.

Gys is taking issue with the claim that Barcelona was handled "pretty well" in
an absolute sense considering the fact that the sports-related infrastructure
went WAY over budget.

Maybe things worked out overall for the economy, but I submit that incremental
value from investments in public infrastructure and what sounds like capable
governance made the difference. You have to wonder if these changes could've
happened without the burden of financing the sports side or hosting the
olympics.

~~~
acveilleux
The timing in Barcelona was very special. Spain had only recently become a
democracy again when they were awarded the game. There was a lot of political
capital available to be spent and a real need to turn a page.

The games in this case were a catalyst but not the reason for most of the
expenses. Same as the Expo in Seville which was also in '92.

~~~
caminante
Indeed. Many didn't (and still don't) realize how fractured the Spanish state
was, going into recent times (i.e. post Franco ~1975).

Somewhat related...it was interesting to learn how Spain's triumph at the 2010
World Cup became a unifying, transcendent event for the country, politically.

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adil_b
So much waste would be reduced no null. Instead of being left with
unmaintained and useless infrastructure similar to case of Beijing:
[http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/ghosts-of-olympics-
past?...](http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/ghosts-of-olympics-
past?articleId=USRTR30UOB), facilities could be renovated continuously for
fraction of price, that could eventually be covered solely by cash inflow of
hotels and advertising.

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arcoarkona
having the olympics costs a country X amount, and earns a country Y amount.

for some reason I think most people put Y at 0, and say that the country has
wasted X (talking only about the 'price tag' of hosting). I can't tell whether
people doing that are being dishonest to support a narrative, or whether they
actually think that hosting an olympics earns a country nothing.

you can argue that Y is often or always less than X, but I rarely see Y even
acknowledged.

~~~
pmelendez
I think in this case the author is well-aware of Y:

"Though Olympic boosters say the Summer Games allow a city to showcase itself
to a global audience, only two Games, both in Los Angeles, have ever made a
real profit"

~~~
arcoarkona
you can see here plenty of articles citing profits for ~50% of olympics:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games)
(estimates obviously don't include a bunch of intangible costs/profits).

I'm sure you could construct a list that shows no profits ever, and a list
that shows massive profits every time (using the same level of evidence for
both sides).

the primary issue is that it's extremely difficult to measure costs/profits
for something as massive as an olympics. the secondary issue is that people
tend to support their 'sides' narrative (keynesian or otherwise).

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ajmurmann
I think we should use the Olympics as a honey pot for politicians who care
more about their own egos than their constituencies. Anyone who applies for it
faces life in prison because it will just cost their city huge amounts of
money and ruin most people's everyday lives.

------
dataker
Both Olympics and World Cup antidemocratic means for corruption, but are
justified with a phony belief in nationalism and keynesianism.

Brazil was the perfect example of how these events can hurt citizens and the
economy:

[http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-
america-33942279](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-33942279)

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/1...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/10133833/Brazil-
World-Cup-protests-teenager-dies-as-a-million-people-take-to-the-streets.html)

------
fhars
May I just Godwin this thread by noting that this is not a new idea:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Stadion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Stadion)

------
fr0styMatt2
Are the Olympics even relevant anymore?

When I was a kid, I can remember people getting excited about the Olympics.
People would sit glued to their TV screens, it would be a big deal.

Now it just seems meh, like people have more pressing things to worry about.
The story seems the same for every country that hosts it:

\- Yay we got the Olympics!

\- <insert controversy here>

\- Oh no! They most certainly AREN'T going to be ready for the Olympics!

\- <insert controversy here>

\- <insert sudden turnaround here>

\- These Olympics were a fantastic success!

\- <insert years of debt here>

It's a shame too. Maybe having them in one place would take away a lot of the
distraction.

------
guard-of-terra
Olympics were created to hold nations together, to be a common child of all
countries.

If you put them in the same place, you might as well cancel them. They no
longer have any point besides vice and bad taste.

------
rdlecler1
Would people care less about the Olympics if it was in the same place each
time? One of the things I actually like about the Olympics is that you get to
see these countries.

------
paradite
"According to a 2007 report from the Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions
(COHRE), it was estimated that Beijing might see up to 1.5 million local
residents displaced due to the preparation for the Olympic Games. "

paraphrased to

"1.25 million people lost their homes during the Beijing Games. "

Western media are really seizing every chance to bash Chinese govt.

~~~
adventured
If a million people were _displaced_ by the Beijing olympic games, then the
Chinese Government deserves to be bashed for it.

~~~
paradite
You are absolutely right. But shall we agree that _displaced_ is not the same
as _lost homes_ , and the latter is more emotional and less factual?

~~~
Joeri
It's hard to talk facts when the chinese government refuses to share the
statistics on evictions.

------
julienchastang
Here is another good article from former rower Charles Banks-Altekruse on this
topic:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/01/opinion/01altekruse.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/01/opinion/01altekruse.html)

------
z3t4
The investment in infrastructure will usually benefit the locals for years.

Doing the math on infrastructure is not that simple. Ex: How much would it be
worth, if one million people saved 30 minutes every day? Or that you live in a
city where you can practice virtually any sport on the highest level!?

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tomohawk
It's not the location, but the permanent corporation that is the problem.
There needs to be change in the personnel who run the IOC after every
olympics.

Why not have all medal winners vote in a new board after every olympics? Gold
gets 3 votes, silver 2, bronze 1. Secret ballot.

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sport_billy
Greece hosted the Olympic games at Athens on 2004, so the vast majority of the
facilities already exist. They would probably need some renovation, but there
should be no need to build new ones.

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sebkomianos
How about doing the exact opposite? How about having very poor/small countries
organise the Olympics but with the entire cost covered by the world's most
wealthy ones?

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scott_karana
Is "Olympic Games" copyrighted? Even if so, what's to stop the Greeks from
claiming prior art, and establishing an Olympic Island themselves, sans-IOC?

~~~
jsprogrammer
A phrase/name can't be copyrighted and prior art is irrelevant to copyright.
Nothing stops them from claiming it, but it's a non-sequitur so there is
really no reason to claim it.

I don't think any individual or organization is stopping Greeks from
establishing their own Olympic Island.

------
aaron695
Politicians are weak.

An Olympics allows them to be strong.

The idea that the 'lost money' would/could have been spent on something better
does not follow.

------
acveilleux
Pretty sure that last city that got a positive ROI from hosting the games was
Barcelona. And that was 23 years ago.

------
hmate9
Hosting the Olympics also many side effects: \- improved infrastructure \-
increased tourism \- stadiums, hotels, training grounds \- good way to get
people into doing sports

just to name a few. Hosting Olympics on a small ireland would mean we give up
all of these benefits. While hosting the Olympics costs a lot of money, income
from tourism and media attention surely makes up for it (correct me if I'm
wrong).

~~~
6d0debc071
> Hosting the Olympics also many side effects: - improved infrastructure -
> increased tourism - stadiums, hotels, training grounds - good way to get
> people into doing sports

I would I imagine that sinking £9.3 billion into road or public-transport
improvements would have a bunch of favourable side effects too. The magnitude
of those effects compared to what else could be done with the money matters.

> While hosting the Olympics costs a lot of money, income from tourism and
> media attention surely makes up for it (correct me if I'm wrong).

At least going by this table:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games)

8 profits 10 losses

Far from an exhaustive analysis, but as far as back of the hand stuff goes it
looks like a questionable call from a financial perspective....

~~~
IkmoIkmo
You're not quoting a profit or loss. You're quoting a budget and actual
expenses.

If Apple decides on a $1b budget to create the iPhone and it turns out it
ended up costing $2b, that's not a 'loss' of $1b, and if it turned out to cost
$500m that's not a 'profit'. It's merely going over budget or under budget.

Profit would require you to actually look at the revenues of the iPhone, too.
You're basically quoting R&D / Investment budgets+costs, and not looking at
all at the outcomes, e.g. the effects it has on a city's infrastructure and
standing in the world. (and how that affects everything from tourism, improved
diplomatic relations, export of national products & culture, cheaper access to
finance etc)

Not that I don't agree with your larger points. Studies have been done to
measure those outcomes, too, and very often the costs of the Olympics are
still not worth it. Although a lot of these things are really tricky to
measure, and some are intangible and possible to measure but difficult to
express in financial terms. (what pride for example must the Chinese have felt
in 2008, I'm all too familiar with the many human rights issues but this was
an absolutely spectacular event that must have inspired hundreds of millions
of Chinese on some level.)

------
sliverstorm
Or a short list of places that rotates. Two stadiums, for example, isn't much
worse than one.

------
known
In Athens?

~~~
kleer001
that might help fix their economic problems...

~~~
tellthetruth1
But why the world should fix their economic problems?

~~~
kleer001
Because it is part of the world. Because it would take the burden off of other
countries.

A family lives or dies by how they treat their shitty uncle.

In the end I believe people are essentially good. Not that they eventually do
good things. That's a measure for time and luck.

~~~
tellthetruth1
So the whole "family" has to pay for the uncle's drinking and drug habit? I am
not gonna pay for your "belief".

~~~
hamburglar
Frankly, the benefit to Greece, whatever it may be, would be a mere side
effect in my opinion. The point of moving it to a permanent location is to
prevent damage everywhere else. It's an interesting game-theory-ish problem
where on one hand, you think, "why should they benefit?" but on the other
hand, under the existing system, it's possible that _nobody_ benefits (other
than the people directly involved in the corruption).

The thought of the Olympics coming to my town makes me want to start
threatening politicians with recall referenda and/or thinking about selling my
house and leaving. Most likely I'd just leave town for the duration and rent
my house out for an ungodly monthly sum.

