
Makerbot announces new 3D printer: Replicator 2 - iamwil
http://makerbot.com/
======
lancewiggs
I went shopping at Makerbot, added the Replicator 2 to the cart, selected some
of the only resin left and added that too, checked the shipping costs and then
went to the next step - checkout. I had committed to buy.

However the site then asked me to register before I could proceed, and in an
approach that seemed to want to take me out of process. I stopped right there
and didn't even click. I hate registering and see no need to register for
something when all I want to do is purchase.

One of the easiest ways to improve your sales is to allow check-out without
register. Let people buy and only ask them to 'save your settings' at the end
and sales lift 5-15% from what I have seen.

Meanwhile I came here instead and read about the upcoming Formlabs release.
Sorry Makerbot - I'll wait.

~~~
apl
I keep coming across this type of complaint on high-priced items, and it makes
me wonder how you justify shelling out 2200$ (at the very least) for something
that can't be much more than an impulse buy? After all, you're deterred by a
minor distraction.

~~~
mparlane
I'm quite sure he was saying it's the only reason that stopped him from the
impulse buy.

edit: Instead of replying to d23. There are a lot of things which I buy out of
impulse, like "that would be cool to have". But if I have to go to excessive
lengths just to buy the thing, I don't.

~~~
d23
I think for small things it makes sense, but for a $2,200 purchase I'm
surprised he would back out over such a small barrier. Either way, I agree,
but for high-information purchases I doubt it matters as much.

~~~
fatbird
I think the lesson is rather that, for impulse purchases, even a very small
bit of friction can interrupt the impulse and blow the sale. If he'd spent
weeks agonizing over it before buying it, knowing registration was part of it,
he'd have probably gritted his teeth and done it because that annoyance would
have been factored into the price over which he agonized, and he'd have had
time to rationalize it as a small thing. Instead, he went from "WOOHOO!
Printing out real objects! Just a few more..." to "WTF? I HATE registration
requirements! Why do they have to make me do this?" in a moment.

~~~
lancewiggs
Exactly.

Our propensity to buy peaks at a certain value - say 10 points for me in this
instance.

Every time an obstacle is placed in the way that propensity gets reduced by a
value related to the frustration level. As the points reduce our propensity to
buy becomes irrelevant in the face of the many other things going on.

They had already for me lost points for 1: not making it clear that the
printer only uses PLA and not ABS (-3), 2: the fact that it doesn't accept ABS
(-2) and 3: because only one color of PLA is available at the moment (-2). The
unnecessary registration was enough to halt the process. (-6)

Note how relatively large the usability scores are versus the functionality
scores. Being easy to deal with is absolutely paramount in commerce.

------
andr3w321
What useful things are people actually using 3d printers for? Yes, I've heard
all the hype about prototyping and you can print "anything". But honestly
whenever I look at things people are printing its just a bunch of cheap
looking plastic toys I would never want. Convince me I need one of these!

~~~
lwat
I have access to a decent-ish 3d printer and after several months I still
don't haven't had any practical use for it.

~~~
iamwil
That may be due to a lack of imagination.

I've made $500 contracting a short 18 hour gig designing enclosures. I've made
shelving. I've made chess sets. I've made heart gears that delighted others.
I've made spool rollers, and desktop ornaments.

~~~
lwat
I guess as an aspiring minimalist I just don't care for chess sets or desk
ornaments.

~~~
iamwil
Those were just examples. I'm just pointing out that it's a problem with
imagination, not ability.

------
kiba
I do not know why makerbots keep getting more expensive than the next. I
thought with advances in tech, they would get cheaper and eventually I would
be able to afford one.

What the heck are they thinking?

~~~
ajross
With Cupcake -> Replicator -> Replicator 2 the devices are getting physically
larger and more capable. Larger machines are more expensive to manufacture and
assemble, and this is still a small-volume, mostly hand-assembled (in
Manhattan! _{edit: sorry, Brooklyn. I misremembered.}_ ) industry.

If you want a 3D printer and cash is an issue, look to building your own
Reprap. Assuming you get it right the first time and don't need to buy tools,
a total cost of under $500 for a Prusa Mendel is achievable. Obviously you
have to build it, but given the target market that's often not a problem. Most
people who want to build 3D printed stuff are generally happy to assemble
robots too.

~~~
maratd
> If you want a 3D printer and cash is an issue, look to building your own
> Reprap.

Or you can just buy a Solidoodle. I did.

[http://store.solidoodle.com/index.php?route=product/product&...](http://store.solidoodle.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56)

~~~
samstave
Looks like the Solidoodle is .3mm resolution vs .1mm resolution of the R2, and
at roughly 25% cost.

EDIT: I originally said .3 vs .2 - but it is actually .3 vs .1 - so the R2 is
much more fine. Still - $500 is a good price for this at all.

Can they both use the same filament?

~~~
bri3d
The "resolution" numbers you're seeing are a red herring. The quoted number is
the _height_ of a layer that the settings shipped with the printer are good
for, not the precision or accuracy of the print head. The X, Y, and Z
resolution, as well as the extruder step size on a Solidoodle (and almost any
other printer these days) is plenty good to print .1mm layers. The challenge
in printing .1mm layers is that you're depositing a _very_ tiny amount of
plastic onto each layer, so variation like filament quality and moisture,
temperature, and speed matters a lot more.

Check out RichRap trying out different "resolutions" (layer heights) on his
MendelMax printer with a Wade's extruder here to learn more about how layer
heights work:

[http://richrap.blogspot.com/2012/01/slic3r-is-nicer-
part-3-h...](http://richrap.blogspot.com/2012/01/slic3r-is-nicer-part-3-how-
low-can-you.html)

------
replicatorblog
If anyone is considering purchasing one, I STRONGLY recommend waiting until
9/26 when Formlabs is unveiling their system. Never been anything like it.
<http://www.formlabs.com/>

~~~
walrus
That's a very unrevealing website. Do you have more information on Formlabs'
device?

~~~
replicatorblog
I have a MakerBot and love their enthusiasm. Formlabs is barely a week away,
let them roll out at their own pace. Look at my profile and believe me it'll
be worth the wait.

~~~
TheAmazingIdiot
I was looking at buying a 3d printer within the week. I am price sensitive. I
have budgeted 600$ (no higher).

Will this device come within my budget?

~~~
tlrobinson
If Formlabs lives up the to hype and is only $600 I'll be _very_ impressed.

Might as well wait and see though, unless you're in a rush.

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mellis
Anyone heard anything about whether the new hardware and software will be
open-source? It would be a shame if MakerBot's continued success and growth
come at the expense of openness.

~~~
jeffgreco
Hackaday mentioned that it would be closed-source:
[http://hackaday.com/2012/09/19/introducing-the-makerbot-
repl...](http://hackaday.com/2012/09/19/introducing-the-makerbot-
replicator-2/)

~~~
samroesch
Hackaday mentioned that there are rumours that it will be closed source.

~~~
rpd9803
Guess all that VC money came with a hefty pricetag for the community.

~~~
jedahan
Actually the VCs are shitting their pants as MakerBot sheds its first and
second most valuable resources - good employees and the community.

Though I thought the same thing when I heard some of the most recent
decisions.

------
jboggan
This is going to change the motorcycle industry. Most of the (very expensive
OEM) plastic pieces on the bike are small enough to be replicated within the
scale of the Replicator 2, and those that are could easily be segmented into
printable jobs. For example, right now I'm waiting for a small $70 part to be
shipped from a warehouse in Bologna - why couldn't I just print it out myself?
Even better, why not replace it with a more personalized design?

~~~
lambda
I've always wondered; how many pieces of much value can be made from lumpy,
soft plastic with a low melting point? The results I've seen always look lumpy
due to the resolution of the printer, the plastic isn't that hard, and the
melting point is pretty low.

While I've seen a few neat things of novelty value, most of the actual things
that I would want to make would require metal or harder plastics, and a lot
more precision than these things are capable of.

~~~
devnill
I have an original replicator. With a little practice, you can have much nicer
results than the 'lumpy prints' that you describe. Also, ABS is really easily
sanded and is quite solid if you want professional looking parts

~~~
lambda
I'm curious what actually useful parts you've made from it. I'm not sure I
have ever had a problem where the solution was a part that I could print on a
3D printer; but maybe I'm not being imaginative enough, so I'm curious what
other people have done with it.

------
sbierwagen
PLA only, and they don't mention head speed? (how fast it builds)

Replicator 1 was 40mm/s, which was slow at the time, and glacial now. (Tuned
Prusa Mendels do 250mm/s, <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz56RY6OjM4> ORDbot
does faster than that) If they're not talking about the head speed, then that
means it'll be lower than 40mm/s.

That and they still use 1.75mm filament, which is 40% more expensive than 3mm
filament, and offers only slightly better print quality, again, at the cost of
print speed.

I also don't know why they're talking up the 100 micron layer height.
Ultilimaker printers will do 50 micron layers pretty easily.

------
thechut
Apt timing for a lunch directly ahead of Maker Faire NY next week.

As an owner of a Thing-o-Matic I was fairly disappointed with my Makerbot. I
know people that own Replicators that were also fairly disappointed. Unless
there are some significant improvements in this version of the Replicator I
will not be buying my next 3D printer from Makerbot. I would much rather buy
an Ultimaker or one of the several other startup printer companies that are
now out there. The cost of the Replicator also runs very close to the 'home'
version of many commercial 3D printers.

~~~
bduerst
What were the problems you had with the Replicator I?

~~~
thechut
Quality vs expense primarily. It had many of the same problems I experienced
with my ToM. Not being able to print thin enough walls, bad overhangs, and
random problems where it would just stop printing. We had (has since been
replaced) one at my local hacker space and the Replicator was the but of lots
of jokes. The bottom line is that it was a cool toy but never a useful tool.

------
DanBlake
Wow, I did not expect the plastic for this to be so expensive. Nearly $100 for
a lb of plastic?! Is that cost really in line with their costs, or is this
selling razors without giving away the handle?

<http://store.makerbot.com/filament>

~~~
kristofferR
Where did you get that number from? 1 kg of plastic costs around $50, and
since 1 kg = 2,2 lbs, each lbs costs around $22.

------
mmanfrin
Can someone summarize the differences for those of us who can't watch videos?

~~~
iamwil
They announced 4 things:

1) Makerbot replicator 2 ($2200): <http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2.html>

The new makerbot replicator is in all black, and the casing seems to be made
of metal. They've also moved from ABS plastic to PLA plastic, as ABS tends to
shrink when cooled, and as a result, it's easier to get failed prints that
curled off the platform or cracked with ABS. It's got a slightly bigger build
volume, and the default resolution is now 100 microns, rather than 270 microns
in the first Replicator. I'm not sure how fast it is to print at that
resolution.

There's a tour here:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emt8LJSXry0&feature=youtu...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emt8LJSXry0&feature=youtu.be)

2) Makerbot replicator 2X ($2800)
<http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2x.html>

Dual headed extrusion, though in my experience, there aren't too many models
that take advantage of this. They've positioned this model as something for
those that 'like to tinker and be on the cutting edge'.

3) Makerware software: <http://www.makerbot.com/makerware/>

This is actually pretty neat, since the slicing software you use to prepare
models for printing is currently really slow (skeinforge), or fast but doesn't
handle all cases well (slic3r).

4) MakerBot announces new retail store: Opens at 298 Mulberry St., New York.
mbot.co/1sz

And I think this will help educate the public about what 3D printers can do.

If this model holds up to be a no fuss printing experience, I think we might
begin to see consumers thinking about getting one.

~~~
ars
It can only use PLA? No option for ABS?

That's not a good thing - that means you can't really print functional parts
with this, only demos.

PLA has too low of a glass transition temperature, so parts will deform if you
leave them in a car, or outdoors in the sun in the summer.

Plus it starts to degrade if exposed to temperatures of around 100F especially
if in a humid environment, giving it a limited lifetime.

i.e. if you want to use this to print parts for your car or your computer you
can't.

~~~
iamwil
The option for ABS is for the previous Replicator 1, and Replicator 2X.

ABS is a bitch to work with. Makerbot is making as many moves as they can
towards something that's a consumer appliance. And if PLA can help them get
there with an 80% use case coverage, so be it that you can't print parts you
can leave in your car.

~~~
sbierwagen
ABS prints fine with a heated glass build platform.

~~~
iamwil
Only for small prints. For larger prints, it doesn't stick very well.

------
jenius
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like it would help them to find someone else to
do their product announcements. While I'm sure that Bre is a total genius and
his work is incredible, he's a very awkward presenter.

That being said, this still looks amazing, and if I had lots of money and
could actually use it, I'd be all over that.

~~~
larrywright
Just a guess, but I bet his target market doesn't care. He's got pretty big
name recognition with that market.

~~~
sbierwagen
Well, _some_ of the target market. A lot of the Reprap guys don't like him,
for various boring reasons.

Then again, they all build their own printers, so they wouldn't be buying from
him anyway.

------
SpikeDad
Guess we're further away with a 3D printer being able to print itself. Thank
goodness - what a stupid goal. This new version is 10x better than the last
for only a small increase in the price.

Still too much for the average person but someone with some production
capacity will bring this sort of device down in price.

~~~
jlgreco
Have Makerbot printers ever had the immediate goal of being self-hosting?

That is the RepRap project's thing as far as I know, not Makerbot's.

------
tehwalrus
If you want me to actually read the blurb on the fancy graphics on your
homepage, don't put it on a fast moving Javascript carousel. Having never even
heard of the Replicator 1, I wanted to actually read something about it. :/

------
HyprMusic
I wonder if the makerbot clone will follow suit?
[http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/24/makerbot-
clon...](http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-08/24/makerbot-clone)

------
gavanwoolery
Anybody in San Diego interested in all chipping in to get one? I will front
the cost, and we can work out some kind of time share...

~~~
gavanwoolery
I just bought one. Anybody want anything printed?? I need to justify the cost.
:)

------
6ren
For the tractor and five-way circular pistons (at 2:17)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o6pcbhylmQ&t=2m17s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o6pcbhylmQ&t=2m17s)
are we yet at the point where they are printed as-is (i.e. pre-assembled)?

Or are their parts printed separately and then hand-assembled?

~~~
spacemanaki
No, since the Replicator 2 can only extrude a single filament at a time, and
that tractor has more than one color, it must have been assembled afterward.
The Replicator 2X is the model with a dual extruder:
<http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2x.html>

------
jacobian
How strong are the PLA parts that come out of these printers? I.e. how do they
compare to molded ABS or PVC?

~~~
iamwil
It depends on what you mean by strong. A lot of times, the strength depends as
much as the structure that you're printing as it is the material. Most of
these objects are printed hollow.

Generally, PLA is stronger against stress, but breaks quickly, whereas ABS is
less strong against stress, but bends before breaking.

------
jwuggles
I'm not as knowledgable with 3d printing - but have heard of Makerbot before.
Anyone know how this compares to Replicator #1? Is there improved fidelity?
(i.e. less print lines?)

The replicator 1 was pretty kickass when they had a demo @ Disrupt SF, but had
some noticeable lines.

------
jedahan
Gonna be interesting to hear Bre talk at Open Hardware Summit about 'business
and sharing'.

------
temos
MakerBot 2 is also closed source.

------
lewisflude
He looks and sounds a bit like Eric Wareheim from Tim & Eric.

------
fotbr
<http://www.makerbot.com/replicator2-press-assets/>

PDFs of the press releases for anyone who prefers to read.

------
motters
Looks nice, but I think I'd only buy something that expensive if I could make
a good business case for using it.

~~~
timdorr
Most of us here are in software. But if you're in hardware, this might be
significantly cheaper and/or faster than working with a plastics fabricator
for creating simple prototypes. I know of one company here in Atlanta that
will probably jump on this thing right away.

~~~
ajwinn
What do you think the company in Atlanta will use it for? I mean, who are the
users that need things printed in plastic? Architects maybe? People who want
custom desktop toys? I have a 3d printer on the way and I'm trying to think of
how I could make money off of it.

------
tocomment
Could this print Legos? How about a flower pot? Those are the two things I'd
want to print.

~~~
sbierwagen
Legos are manufactured with surprisingly fine tolerances. You might be able to
do it with the Replicator 2, I don't know.

They've also got a lot of 90 degree overhangs, which FDM machines don't like.
(It's essentially a hot glue gun in a gantry. The plastic doesn't freeze
instantly when it leaves the nozzle, it stays molten for quite some time. If
you print over thin air, it'll droop.)

And if you could print it, the bottom layers might delaminate and break off
every time you detached it from another brick.

As for a flowerpot, no way. PLA's made from corn. Keep it warm, wet and in
contact with soil, and it'll turn into compost within a month.

------
mbrameld
Youtube is telling me the video is private.

~~~
iamwil
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emt8LJSXry0&feature=youtu...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emt8LJSXry0&feature=youtu.be)

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isabela
.... smub & sand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^~^

------
isabela
that's wasssap tho c;

------
isabela
that's wasssaaup c;

------
isabela
that's wassap c;

~~~
isabela
lol

