
Scientists sniffing out the Western allergy epidemic - k-mcgrady
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28934415
======
tokenadult
Children born without cesarean sections? Check. Children nursed by mother for
months after birth? Check. Children played outside in dirt and wild plants
every day? (Largely) check. Had living plants at home? (Occasionally) check.
But the children in my parents' families (including eleven who were brought up
on a farm) and the children in my birth family and the children I now have
(and their cousins in another country) still have quite a few problems with
allergies. There surely is some family history involved in our susceptibility
to allergies, as well as childhood environmental factors from our upbringing.
Learning about the environmental factors is helpful, especially for
understanding whole-country-scale epidemiological trends, but full
understanding of the causes and treatments of allergies will have to come from
studies with genetically sensitive designs.

~~~
driverdan
Your anecdote is not data. There will always be exceptions or as Houshalter
points out factors that are easy to overlook.

~~~
tokenadult
Did you not finish reading my comment to see the sentence "Learning about the
environmental factors is helpful, especially for understanding whole-country-
scale epidemiological trends, but full understanding of the causes and
treatments of allergies will have to come from studies with genetically
sensitive designs"? The article kindly submitted for our discussion talks
about correlational observations, that is collections of anecdotes. Anecdotes
and correlational observations generate hypotheses, but it is precisely
looking at exceptions, especially with experimental treatment-control designs,
which will tease out what environmental factors are causative and what factors
are sheer coincidence.

------
radicalbyte
EDIT: it turns out that my memory was faulty, the research was into light
chains, which is related to inflammatory conditions ([http://www.jni-
journal.com/article/S0165-5728(09)00012-5/abs...](http://www.jni-
journal.com/article/S0165-5728\(09\)00012-5/abstract)). The research on fine
particles is this
([http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1743-8977-7-35](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1743-8977-7-35)),
which a friend gave me. Guess I read too much crap. Sorry!

 _My wife was involved (Masters thesis) in some primary research into the
causes of asthma / other allergies involving the respiratory system. It was
experimental research (which involved lab mice, iirc), not statistical.

Her results showed that fine particles of a certain size caused damage that
would cause respiratory problems (i.e. asthma)._

Luckily in Europe at least there regulations are getting stronger over time;
that's why we're all driving cars with catalytic converters and filters.

------
rsync
What is the state of the cleanliness theory these days ?

What state of proposed-debunked-revisited is that in ?

The narrative that one could be raised in too clean of an environment which
then leads to an immune system on a hair-trigger is a sensible and compelling
one, but I wonder how accepted it is in 2014 ?

~~~
ambler0
Looks like it's alive and well to me. The "Old Friends" hypothesis by Rook
mentioned in the article appears to be from 2003.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis)

------
voidlogic
>But generations before did not suffer from this epidemic, so what is it
that's making us so allergic in our modern world?

How do we know this is true? I always assumed some middle aged lady in 1803
had just the same problems with ragweed as any of us. In absence of contrary
evidence, this of course is the logical assumption.

If we are talking about things like eczema and asthma, I'm more inclined to
believe this, but I'd still like to see some evidence.

------
phkahler
I cured my asthma. After my first attack the doctor put me on inhaled steroids
- this is a lifelong treatment that has some side effects. He said my lung
function was that of an 84 year old (I was 43). I found that magnesium helped,
and later learned that Iodine can be beneficial too. I started taking both
daily as well as reducing my BMI from ~33 down to ~29. I had the lungs
retested after going off meds for a few weeks and they "functioned above
average". So I'm off the meds and feel great.

On a related note, I used to get sick pretty much every year and was the first
in the house to get things. Since I started the iodine a year ago, I have not
had so much as a cold, while my family got a couple bad things over the
winter. This is more anecdotal than the asthma of course, as that's a thing
you can test where catching stuff is more random.

~~~
tokenadult
People can have genuine asthma and yet have lung function (vital capacity)
test results in the top percentile for their age group. I have an immediate
relative of whom both things are true. Maintaining a healthy body weight by
physical exercise a balanced diet is surely helpful for general health, and
the exercise is just about guaranteed to improve lung function, but none of
that is best described as "curing" asthma.

~~~
phkahler
>> ..but none of that is best described as "curing" asthma.

How then would you describe curing asthma?

~~~
tokenadult
"Asthma has no cure. Even when you feel fine, you still have the disease and
it can flare up at any time.

"However, with today's knowledge and treatments, most people who have asthma
are able to manage the disease. They have few, if any, symptoms. They can live
normal, active lives and sleep through the night without interruption from
asthma."[1]

"Asthma can't be cured, but its symptoms can be controlled. Because asthma
often changes over time, it's important that you work with your doctor to
track your signs and symptoms and adjust treatment as needed."[2]

" . . . . Staying active is an important way to stay healthy, so asthma
shouldn't keep you on the sidelines. Your physician can develop a management
plan to keep your symptoms under control before, during and after physicial
activity.

. . . .

"There is no cure for asthma, but once it is properly diagnosed and a
treatment plan is in place you will be able to manage your condition, and your
quality of life will improve."[3]

"There is no cure for asthma, but the good news is it can be managed and
treated so you can live a normal, healthy life."[4]

My best wishes to you in enjoying the same long-term relief from severe asthma
symptoms and enjoyment of exercise that I wish for my relatives who have
asthma. (I have allergies, but fortunately I have been spared asthma.)

[1] [http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-
topics/topics/asthma/](http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-
topics/topics/asthma/)

[2] [http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
conditions/asthma/basics/...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
conditions/asthma/basics/definition/con-20026992)

[3] [http://www.aaaai.org/conditions-and-
treatments/asthma.aspx](http://www.aaaai.org/conditions-and-
treatments/asthma.aspx)

[4] [http://www.lung.org/lung-disease/asthma/](http://www.lung.org/lung-
disease/asthma/)

~~~
phkahler
They did tell me to keep a rescue inhaler just in case, and I have one around
here somewhere. But it has not been used. I also don't buy the line that
"there is no cure for asthma". Perhaps what I'm taking "controls" it as well
as the more conventional stuff? I still prefer a treatment that has other
beneficial side effects to one that costs more and has negative side effects.

BTW, if we're using NIH links I'll just point out that Iodine cures cancer:

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16120321](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16120321)
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16679319](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16679319)

And reverses FBD:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8221402](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8221402)

Where molecular iodine is most effective - though it's traditionally claimed
to be the most harmful form.

BTW, FBD is a risk factor for breast cancer so these go together quite nicely.

------
chrismealy
Sample size of 1, but I quit eating sugar two months ago and my allergies (or
allergy-like symptoms) are almost gone. That's after a lifetime of a stuffed
up nose and frequent sinus infections. The weird thing is my nose cleared up
after around 5 days, but the sinus headache lasted another two weeks. My hunch
is that I'm prone to fungal infections, but who knows.

~~~
cesarbs
A bit off-topic, but could you describe what your sinus headache was like?
I've been having a lot of pain over my eyebrows for more than a month now.
I've read that this could be related to a persistent sinus
infection/inflammation, and my GP confirmed this could be the case (but then
did nothing about it). I don't get much nasal discharge nor anything, just an
occasional stuffy nose at night, but still I wonder if it could be a sinus
thing.

~~~
chrismealy
I'd have pain over my eyebrows and under my eyes near my nose. No runny nose
-- I have nasal polyps so the stuff in there couldn't come out.

------
dbbolton
A bit of a tangent, but it's really a shame that triclosan use is still so
ubiquitous in the United States. It does way more harm than good. Only one
state (Minnesota) has actually taken a stance toward limiting its public use,
which won't even go into effect for another three years.

------
ars
Terrible "study". Why compare to some traditional tribe? The number of
confounding variables is incredibly high.

Why not to compare to their neighbor without allergies? That might actually
teach you something.

~~~
7952
>> Why compare to some traditional tribe?

Because it is interesting? Maybe allergy is complicated and you cannot learn
everything with a single study of your next door neighbor!

~~~
ars
No, it's not interesting actually. It's completely useless.

The stated goal is to learn about allergies. The method used has nothing
whatsoever to do with the goal.

------
M2Ys4U
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned paracites/worms.

Areas of the world where worm infection is prevalent and the areas of the
world where allergies/autoimmune diseases are prevalent have almost no
overlap.

There is even evidence to suggest that infection by certain larvae can
actually alleviate certain conditions (like inflammatory bowel disease)
although this research is at a very early stage and carries risk (you
certainly shouldn't try it as a DIY solution, for sure!).

------
lifeisstillgood
Forgive the long post - I still am missing some clarity.

1\. Holier than thou / positive thinking

This just irks me : "I breast feed, therefore I am better than you" is the
short hand I can give. It smacks of the same rather arrogant and unforgiving
Oprah-style idea that you can have good things happen to you by positive
thinking (as opposed to selection bias) and therefore if bad things happen to
you it's your fault for not being positive enough. It is closely linked to the
faulty thinking that leads people to turn off their mobile charger before
getting on an airplane.

2\. Bacteria is not a grey goo

The theory seems to be we have destroyed our bacterial ecosystems and this
will have some effect. - it seems a very likely and good theory. Except that
instead of making the leap to "1/3 of us have wiped out bacteria X, or
bacterial group Y" we leap to "good Bacteria and bad bacteria" and we should
somehow replace it with other peoples fecal matter.

I will go with Tokenadult on this - or perhaps one step further. My conjecture
is one set of bacteria is responsible for the allegen protection (probably one
set per allergen) and that may well have a genetic jigsaw component to match.
This is a wildly complicated picture to assemble and will be quite provable.
Add in the next most likely cause - some hitherto unnoticed poison we are
throwin around like fire retardants, and there is a lot of research to be
done.

3\. The causes don't seem to match the sufferers

Obese != allergic. Sedentary != allergic. At least use tobacco smoking and
lung cancer correlation rates as our gold standard here. Maybe we do (I am
lacking the google-fu to find it) but I will be amazed if every obese
sedentary Caesarian born anti-biotic taking person is allergic to pollen - in
fact I would bet there is a large and worthwhile study to be done for those
that aren't.

4\. The comparisons are apples to oranges - I think.

I was struck by the 1/3 of us westerners and 1/1500 of those hunter gathers
statistic. That's an enormous gulf - how did they test these hunter gathers
for asthma? Did they ask their GPs? Apart from glimmers of point number 1
(noble savages) I am amazed at the vast spread there. As those people and
their children start to get eaten By the modern world perhaps we could take
samples ...

But overall I worry that we blame our "lifestyle" as if we forgot to unplug
the mobile charger, and use it as a chance to demonise those who do not meet
our cultural standards, and idolise those who would rather swap asthma for our
maternity care.

