
A new locker system from Amazon sends your deliveries to 7-Eleven - aaronbrethorst
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/09/02/090211-tech-technews-amazon-lockers/
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SwellJoe
I love this idea. I travel full-time, and have no permanent residence. Amazon
Prime has been a godsend...but, even that only works when I'm staying
somewhere long enough to get something shipped in (I upgrade to overnight for
$3.95 per item quite often), and in a place where I can have something
delivered. Fedex and UPS do not yet accept GPS coordinates as a destination
for delivery (my motorhome is often parked off the grid in the desert or
mountains on public land). The ability to ship something to a 7-Eleven in the
nearest town or along my planned route is just too wonderful to express.

I recently had to buy a new phone, somewhat urgently since my phone is my
GPS/map/Internet/etc. and I'm lost without it, and was trying to figure out
how to get one shipped in quickly. The one I wanted at the price I wanted to
pay was not available with Amazon Prime shipping, so it was going to cost $40
to overnight it, in addition to the hassle of having to be in a specific
location with a fixed address through the weekend and into next week. Luckily,
a T-Mobile store had it for the same price, so I got it same day for only a
few bucks more (because of sales tax)...but that's usually not the case. Had I
needed an unlocked phone, or needed something not widely available, it would
have been an ordeal.

In short, I don't know how many normal people are going to use this service,
but I am going to use the hell out of it as soon as it is widely available.

~~~
there
_I travel full-time, and have no permanent residence._

do you not file a state tax return?

~~~
sliverstorm
He is still a lawful resident of the state, whether or not he has a permanent
address.

~~~
ThaddeusQuay2
In my state, Pennsylvania, it is my understanding that the homeless are not
allowed to drive or even to receive mail, because a mailbox cannot be used for
the address on their driver's license, and they cannot get a mailbox, neither
from the Post Office nor from a reputable mailbox rental business, without
already having an address which they can prove is their residence. Therefore,
unless the rules are different in his state, he is not allowed to drive, and
if that's the case, then: How can he be a lawful resident?

~~~
driverdan
That's what most states claim but it simply isn't true. You can use a mailbox
service.

~~~
ThaddeusQuay2
Possibly, but: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2957882>.

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kristopher
Amazon already has these up and running in Japan.

Amazon Help Article (JP):
[http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId...](http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200219420)

Google Translate:
[http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.co.jp%2Fgp%2Fhelp%2Fcustomer%2Fdisplay.html%3FnodeId%3D200219420&act=url)

~~~
nandemo
Yes, and it has been running for several years now. Very handy.

In Japan, the customer doesn't have to mess with any lockers. In the
convenience store (Lawson instead of 7 Eleven) there's an electronic terminal
used for buying tickets, pre-paid cards, etc. The customer inputs the order
code and key into that terminal to print a ticket. Then they hand it to the
clerk who picks up the package from the storage.

~~~
mleonhard
7 Eleven in Taiwan has the same system. It's a delivery option for Taiwan's
big online store <http://pchome.com.tw/> and Taiwan's eBay
<http://ruten.com.tw/>.

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soult
Something similar has been around in Germany for 10 years now. The boxes there
are not owned by Amazon, but by the Deutsche Post AG.[0] This allows
competitors to use them as well.

0: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation>

~~~
cromulent
Itella in Finland have them also (SmartPost) for use by any online merchant.
As a merchant, you can also use them to drop your parcels off.

~~~
soult
The German version allows you to send packages by putting them into an empty
box in the Packstation. Same for the Austrian version. Deutsche Post also
maintains so-called "Paketbox"es, which are only for sending stuff.

The Österreichische Post AG (Austria) is testing a new system where they
install a couple of boxes right inside apartement buildings, typically next to
the residents' post boxes. When a resident isn't home they simply drop the
unlock code in his post box and put the package in one of the boxes. (The
package is obviously too big to be dropped directly into the resident's post
box.)

Packages can be exciting ;-)

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rajat
How soon before state governments start claiming that these lockers are a
physical presence of Amazon's retail operations?

~~~
aaronbrethorst
Well, apparently the only one in existence is in Seattle (about eight blocks
away from me, as it works out).

My guess is that the answer to "how soon" would be 'the second one of these
boxes appears in a state where Amazon does not yet collect sales tax.'

That said, I'm guessing that Amazon's lawyers would argue that this is
effectively identical to a P.O. box, and therefore totally exempted. At least,
that's what I'd argue.

edit: or not owned by Amazon at all. Good call.

~~~
waterlesscloud
Or the boxes are owned by a company which is not Amazon.

Make it a joint venture with UPS and use it for all kinds of deliveries and
win.

~~~
dkrich
Yeah, but the law is always murky about what constitutes a "physical
presence," and the interpretations vary from state to state. I'm fairly
certain that if they started springing up all over the US, there would be a
lot of debate about whether a sales tax was required.

In any case, there's no way Amazon would keep these around if they alone
necessitated a sales tax, since the trade-off would be too great.

------
tzs

        When the package is actually delivered, the
        customer receives an email notification along with
        a bar code to his smartphone and heads to the
        7-Eleven. There he’ll stand in front of the
        locker system, which looks like the offspring
        between an ATM machine and a safety deposit box.
        The machine will scan the bar code on his handset
        to receive a PIN number. He’ll punch that PIN
        number and retrieve the package.
    

I don't understand the purpose of the PIN. If I'm reading this right, it scans
the bar code on my phone and gives me the PIN, and then I enter the PIN to get
my package.

Why doesn't it just give me my package when it scans the bar code? The PIN
doesn't seem to add any security.

I supposed the PIN could be an artifact of the implementation, rather than a
security measure. For the prototype it might have been easier and cheaper just
to use some stock keypad-based lockbox, and so they have to tell you the PIN,
rather than to do some custom engineering to hook the locking system straight
up to the barcode system.

~~~
xal
Proper Security: Something you have and something you know.

~~~
tzs
Since they tell you the PIN at the point of use when you present the bar code,
the PIN is not "something you know" from a security point of view.

Two factor authentication requires that you have two separate items of
evidence to attest to your identity. The PIN in the Amazon system as described
in the article is just evidence that you knew the bar code, not evidence as to
who you are, so their system is just one factor.

A good way to think about it when considering a purported two factor system is
to ask how many things a bad guy has to steal to impersonate you. In a two
factor system, he should have to steal two things.

------
byoung2
This is similar to what FedEx does with packages that can't be delivered. You
can have it redirected at no charge to the nearest FedEx Office (formerly
Kinko's) location and you can pick it up when it's convenient. It's like
having a UPS Store box without having to pay the monthly fee.

~~~
tzs
In my experience, FedEx often redirects packages that CAN be delivered, too.

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mistermann
This seems like a no brainer, especially partnering with a ubiquitous local
retailer.

I am rarely home when the majority of the packages I order actually arrive in
my city. If they were to send me an email asking me if I'll be home on the
scheduled day of delivery, I'd be more than happy to let them know I'm not, to
save them the trip of trying to deliver to me when I _know_ I won't be home.
This has always seemed like a major inefficiency in the courier system that
I've always thought they would have eliminated. I just can't imagine that I am
an outlier, do most other homes usually have someone home so its not worth
sending out an email to check? Can anyone comment on this? I think about this
problem every time I receive a package, it seems like such an obvious problem
easily solved by technology.

~~~
ddw
Once I saw that a package was set to be delivered the next day so I called UPS
and told them that I wouldn't be home and that they should just drop it off at
the plant for me to pick up. They said they couldn't do that until the
delivery guy tried at least once.

It seems easy, but perhaps it isn't or at least it isn't cost effective
enough. The delivery person seemingly isn't given a route everyday (or at
least that's my guess) and for now it's too complex/expensive for UPS/FedEx to
institute. Also, they are rushing so much and there are so many processes
before your package is put into the brown truck that there are all kinds of
timing issues. This Amazon idea may help.

------
Loic
This system is working very well. We have had that in France and Germany for
the past couple of years, they call that Packstation in Germany:

<http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/privatkunden/packstation.html>

~~~
etaty
In France it's <http://www.cityssimo.fr/> I have never tested it

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blahedo
> _...which looks like the offspring between an ATM machine and a safety
> deposit box._

The author evidently has never seen a modern transit station locker system.
(Admittedly less common now that lockers have been removed from airports.) At
Union Station in Chicago there is a wall of lockers that looks almost exactly
like this; all your interactions with choosing and locking and unlocking a
locker are done with the computer kiosk in the middle (which, in that case,
has a credit card reader). Amazon is surely not using custom hardware for this
(or at least, not from-scratch custom), just reprogramming what's out there.

~~~
joezydeco
You mean this one?

<http://www.smartecarte.com/storage-lockers>

There's a hidden aspect of these lockers, you know. TSA likes it when they can
have a backdoor to these lockers when needed.

------
scorchin
This is pretty cool, but my first thought after seeing this would be how easy
it would make credit card fraud.

Thieves wouldn't need to provide a new address anymore, just one of these
lockers and go pick it up.

------
larsberg
Lucky Dragon Nanofax!

Darnit, now I have to re-read the Idoru chain of Gibson books again...

~~~
Adaptive
This was _absolutely_ the first thing I thought of the moment I read the
headline.

I very much want to believe that someone at Amazon had a brainstorm after that
book.

------
larschdk
All over Denmark for a couple of years:
[http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IlrPuze6Aps/THpLTSbhdCI/AAAAAAAACB...](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IlrPuze6Aps/THpLTSbhdCI/AAAAAAAACBA/HHE3yqva0p4/s1600/d%C3%B8gnposten.jpg)

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nostromo
They could do the same for big employers too - Microsoft, Google, Boeing, etc.
You could get a notification that you can pick up your delivery after work in
a locker on location - all without inconveniencing a receptionist.

~~~
xyzzyz
Inconveniencing a receptionist is a non-issue for big employers, since most of
them already have a designated shipping and receiving department. For
instance, at NVIDIA, I can have a package delivered directly to my desk, the
same way that, for instance, hardware parts and development boards are
delivered to me from an India location.

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kragen
A funny thing that's missing from this article is the payment aspect. It's my
understanding that the 7-Eleven delivery system in Taiwan also handles payment
— in effect, 7-Eleven acts as an escrow agent for Ruten, accepting both the
goods and the cash before releasing either to the other party.

It seems like not having to use credit cards (with the attendant risks of
credit card theft, identity fraud, false fraud alarms canceling your purchase,
etc., not to mention cutting out people who don't have one) or PayPal could be
a huge benefit. Less so for buying from Amazon, though, than for buying from
eBay sellers.

------
Sauce1971
In Norway we them: <http://www.posten.no/17889/postautomat>

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eftpotrm
Hopefully coming to the UK soon. This (well, ideally a generic multi-retailer
version) has been to me an obvious business opportunity for years; if I had
the slightest of relevant contacts I'd have been trying to set it up.
Hopefully it will take off and we'll begin to see the _real_ possibility of
online retail.

~~~
justincormack
Not sure which shops. Now the supermarkets are buying up the convenience
stores, and they consider Amazon competition they are not feasible.

~~~
eftpotrm
That's definitely the challenge, but the advantages of last-mile depot
collections as a universal service rather than the current 'system' of waiting
for the missed delivery cards then trying to find a depot 20 miles away would
be a major benefit and, I suspect, one customers would pay for.

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nazgulnarsil
Awesome. I think my use case is common. I live in an apt where UPS can't leave
packages and I am also not home during the day. I get my packages shipped to
my relative's house, but I know several people who just don't order things
online much because of this problem.

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holri
This problem has been solved hundred years ago. The solution is called post
office. Nowadays they were getting to expensive and therefore have been
replaced in Austria by post partners like gas stations, or small super markets
in your neighbourhood. Works perfectly.

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athst
This is awesome. Really good for people who live in an apartment and aren't
there during the day to take deliveries.

...but what surprised me more about this was that it was shared from The
Daily.

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you_are_late
In several Asian countries it's been like that for the past 10 years. Good
luck US becoming modern. What else is gonna be news next, electric toilet? :D

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warmfuzzykitten
This would give Amazon a physical presence in all 50 states. Really bad idea
unless they wish to start charging sales tax.

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thelovelyfish
That's a great idea. I hope this grows into being able to ship anything to a
7-11 and then picking it up.

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gurkendoktor
books.com.tw, the Taiwanese alternative to amazon, also has this feature. I
bet other online shops have it too. But you can even pay your taxes at 7/11
here, so nothing really surprises me anymore :)

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finao
Sounds a lot like Kinek.com but they do it will all sorts of retailers

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njharman
> this nightmare scenario

Hyperbole much?

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maeon3
A better system might be farming out the delivery to a special service that
sends a package at any hour of any day. Amazon gives the package to this
agency for a fee and they will deliver it to any gps coordinate at any time
(but someone has to sign for it).

