

Is it true that “the only ”intuitive“ interface is the nipple”? - itsbits
http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/5150/is-it-true-that-the-only-intuitive-interface-is-the-nipple

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cjbprime
As a parent of a newborn who is my first child: no, nipples are not intuitive.

You have to get the baby to open his/her mouth and put it around the breast,
bringing the nipple up to the roof of their mouth. That part might be
intuitive.

Then you have to get them to form a tight seal with their mouth. They're
definitely not great at this.

Then you have to get them to do both of the previous steps at the same time
while also sucking hard and not breaking the seal. People make entire lifetime
careers out of being "lactation consultants" to help parents train their
babies to do this properly.

Then there are the extra problems that aren't directly related to sucking that
interfere with eating. For example, our baby would fall asleep within five
minutes of starting to eat, he was so relaxed. The pediatrician got us to
escalate attempts at keeping him awake until we were literally holding ice
cubes against his feet to keep him awake while eating, which is about the only
level of stimulus that would stop him going to sleep.

He's getting the hang of it now, though. But it took two months of training
around eight times a day, which probably isn't going to meet anyone's
definition of an intuitive interface.

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daniel_solano
Arguably, a big part of the reason why "lactation consultants" exist is
because breastfeeding has become relatively uncommon in places like the U.S.
It's not that the nipple isn't an intuitive interface—it's breastfeeding that
must be learned, and the generational transmission of that knowledge has
broken down.

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btilly
Question, do you have children of your own? Have you been through the process
of watching a baby learn to breastfeed?

Technically you're right, breastfeeding must be learned. And breastfeeding is
in large part the skill of assisting and teaching babies how to nurse
effectively. The fact that they need that teaching says that the skill is not
intuitive.

Admittedly they do come armed with reflexes to make them more easily
trainable. But the training is needed.

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think-large
My friend just had a kid and they are training the baby on this exact thing...
So I guess it isn't intuitive after all. There are even experts on how to
train your baby to "interface" with a nipple.

Weird!

~~~
bediger4000
I found that out after my first child was born, too. Yay! Nothing is
intuitive. It's all learned.

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nhebb
Before there is a baby to latch onto a nipple, ask yourself how the baby was
conceived. I'm pretty sure that's the most intuitive interface among all
mammals.

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cabalamat
No, sex has to be learned and mammals often don't get it right at first.

~~~
tgrass
Well, for that matter, latching is not always immediate and successful either
- but there is by necessity at least someone who has accomplished it before
involved. Not necessarily so with the other intuitive interfacing.

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001sky
Agree on M-F. Have folks never built electronics? Simple, intuitive M-F
interfaces are everywhere. A Nipple is a far more subtle and complex, for a
host of reasons (local storage, flow regulation), and as a result usage is a
more learned behaviour (as noted above).

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atacrawl
Millions of babies have trouble latching for whatever reason, so maybe there
is no true universally intuitive interface.

~~~
wmeredith
This is true. There are a lot of misconceptions about latching on when it
comes to newborns. It can be a struggle and very emotional and frustrating
process for the mother. Especially if she thinks it should just happen.
Someone's it does, but sometimes it can take days of prodding and
encouragement. (my daughter is two)

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ilyay
No interface, the nipple included, is intuitive to 100% of people. When we
talk about an interface being intuitive, we mean that it is intuitive for
someone.

Mac programs feel intuitive to Mac users. Windows programs feel intuitive to
Windows users. Any kind of software is more intuitive to those who have
experience with computers than to those who don't.

When designing an interface, you need to know your users and make your
interface intuitive to them.

~~~
bsphil
It's intuitive because of the rooting reflex.

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pr0zac
Saw title, thought it was referring to the Thinkpad pointing interface. Was
immediately disappointed.

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kenny_r
I thought the same thing, probably because of this: <http://xkcd.com/243/>

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btilly
If you want insight onto the quote and whre it comes from, see
<http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/misc/nipple.html> (unfortunately the true
source is unknown).

It is also worth reading to the end to notice that the person who did most to
popularize it amended it after having children.

~~~
bediger4000
I did nothing to popularize that quote. I made a throwaway remark in a usenet
forum in the early 90s, something along the lines of "someone smarter than me
said...". I wanted to point out that X11 in general is not any less
"intuitive" than Mac OS9 user interface conventions. "Intuitive" was a big
thing in 1993, believe it or not.

Someone else picked it up, put the saying in a Linux quote-of-the-day file,
and it took off from there. Misattribution at its finest, if you ask me.

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btilly
I'm sorry for misunderstanding your role in the spread of the quote. Anyways,
it is a nice quote, and I personally empathized with the updated version after
my son was born and I saw how hard breast feeding was.

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bediger4000
Breast feeding is hard to learn, no doubt about it. I disavowed the saying
when I had learned that, and had an opportunity to do so. But the saying does
point out how absurd the 1990s human interface "intuitive" fad was.

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moreati
I'm half remembering a BBC documentary with Robert Winston. He holds a newborn
baby and explains we're born with a few instincts. He then looks at the baby
and grins, the baby smiles back.

Maybe "Smiling is the only intuitive interface, after that it's all learned."
Assuming I remembered that scene correctly.

~~~
itsbits
wow...nice...guess i have to agree with that.. but only partially....may be a
baby smiles..but in the present world people(mainly girls and managers) even
try to make artificial smiles...i remember in college my batch girls trying
different smiles for the batch snaps..

