
How I live and how I work - alex-warren
http://alexwarren.co.uk/2013/06/27/how-i-live-and-how-i-work/
======
pinaceae
...and another one simply living single, with no outside responsibilities and
lucky to be healthy, claiming this lifestyle as somehow superior (others
complain!) but not realizing that there is _nothing_ special about it.

nobody dependent on you? no kids, no employees, no sick parents?

you not dependent on anyone? no accidents, no clients not paying, no disease
or disablement? living in a safe, rich, area of the world?

oh how awesome you are.

~~~
nwh
I believe that there is something special about not needing to spend large
amounts of money on fleeting entertainment.

It's something that none of my peers have managed; they all still spend their
income on drinking, cigarettes, tattoos, holidays and so forth. I don't
particularly look down on them for it as they're obviously happy in their
world doing it. I just think there's more enjoyment to be had outside of a
9-to-5 job and alcohol.

~~~
coob
_I don 't particularly look down on them for it as they're obviously happy in
their world doing it._

You quite clearly do:

 _I believe that there is something special about not needing to spend large
amounts of money on fleeting entertainment._

~~~
edanm
Counterxample:

"I don't particularly look down on regular humans."

"I believe that there is something special about Superman, who can travel
faster than a speeding bullet and is a man of steel."

It seems clear to me that you can find someone who's different from a group
_special_ , without looking down on the group.

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justanother
Somewhat surprised at all the revulsion to this post. I live pretty similarly
to this fellow, but it isn't the least bit boring.

When I finally saw the right bicycle, I spent about $450 on it, then rode 100
miles on it. It was a life-changing adventure.

When I finally saw the right sailboat, I spent about $2700 on it (less than
many/most HN'ers paychecks), then sailed 100 miles on it with the wife. It was
a life-changing adventure.

It isn't up to me to say which way of living is best. But I'd lay odds that
I'm going to be pretty well satisfied with the one I've chosen, when my last
day comes.

Incidentally, Alex doesn't appear to be 'hoarding' cash, he just seems to have
saved up a couple months' glide path, something everyone is supposed to do,
but according to the recent CNN article, almost nobody does. When interest
rates go back up, this seems likely to change.

~~~
jasallen
I think I'm in more or less the same, uh, boat. I made a very good living for
about 15 years more because I was learning a lot from those I was working with
than because I was climbing the ladder. A few months ago, my adventure
changed. I'm bootstrapping now, and have a reasonable amount of runway. Even
still I will occasionally have a night out, and I can afford business
investments that make sense.

Currently reading Seth Godin's Icarus Deception, and to put it in his terms, I
think the idea of having a job and spending >80% of your income on a rolling
basis really plays into the industrial machine that wants to keep us as good
little cogs.

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tzaman
excellent point... if you want to live like a flower. Some of us prefer going
to places, trying new things, meeting new people, having a family and hobbies.
And all those things cost money.

When I'm old I'd rather say _I 'm broke because I lived my life to the
fullest_ than _I lived conservatively so I can afford to be a stressless elder
with savings_

(hopefully I wont be downvoted because I beg to differ)

~~~
roderick3427
I think it's a matter of comfort. Some people can live life flying by the seat
of their pants. In my opinion, those types of people are comfortable with
moving fast, breaking and fixing things, and trying new adventures. They can
look back at their lives and tell their grand kids how they'd lived to the
fullest. But, on the other side of the spectrum. We have people who feel
comfortable living very conservative lives way beneath their means. I think it
provides them a sense of security and empowerment. They may come from
backgrounds where they never had much growing up that could've contributed to
that behavior, maybe. I'm sure my denfintion of a wholeheartedly lived life
would be different from yours and a lot of other people. I don't necessary
think your definition or anyone else is wrong. I just know at the end of the
day we come from different backgrounds. Our desires from life have been shaped
by different lives lived in different times or places. If it's comfortable for
you to do and you're still happy about life afterwards with no regrets, I see
no problem calling it "living life to fullest".

~~~
pieterhg
Not spending money does not equal living a very conservative life at all.

I spend $1000 per month and live luxuriously in an emerging market. I save up
$5000 per month and do more free fun stuff than most people I know. I am self-
employed and move to a new country every few months. My daily life is an
adventure in itself. Some of the best 'entertainment' you can experience in
life does not have to cost a lot.

It's not about living beneath your means, it's about choosing your own path in
life, instead of following society's pressure in getting a 9-to-5 and spending
all your income on stuff that won't make you happy in the long run.

~~~
roderick3427
Not spending money = a conservative life wasn't what I meant by my statement.
I was just pointing out that we do have people in the world who prefer to live
their lives very conservatively and beneath their means financially. I wasn't
saying one thing equals another.

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jgeerts
"I live differently to everybody else I know."

Then I expected a great story about an alternative lifestyle.

This just sounds boring as hell. To me this story sounded like "I live in a
basement, almost never come out or buy things for myself, but I got time on my
hand, so I'm living the life right here". It doesn't sound that good to me to
be honest.

On the other hand, a story I liked to read was Mr. Money Moustache about how
he managed to retire on the age of 30 with a NORMAL lifestyle.

~~~
hyphyphyph
Jesus fucking fuck fuck. Fucking what?? Just an example that if you swear,
things are never boring. Fuck.

------
ndcrandall
I'm seeing a trend in the comments here and would just like to add my
experience. It is quite similar to the author in that I worked fulltime for a
year plus 3 months contracting for the same company.

I consider myself extremely fortunate to have had good health, no family
obligations, and low student loan debt (payed off in within a few months of
graduating). With that in mind, I can honestly say that there was a ton of
pressure to spend money to "better my life". I would get strange looks and
comments from friends and family because I drove a '93 Del Sol, and lived in
the same apartment after graduating. The only big purchase I made recently was
upgrading to a used car that is only 10 years old.

In the end I saved a lot of money. Enough to move back to California, in the
Bay Area. I have been living off of savings for 7 months and honestly have
about 7 more (conservative numbers). I live comfortably here and I get to work
on my own projects on my own time until I make money or run out, in which case
I will go find more contract work.

My point is that I decided early what I wanted to do and planned accordingly.
I know that I'm in a very unique category with little responsibility. I have
much respect for those who can't quite do what I do because of other
obligations. This makes me happy and I wouldn't have it any other way. No need
to feel sorry for me and think I'm not living life to the fullest, because in
my mind I am.

~~~
purplelobster
Spending on cars is one of those things that I can't comprehend personally,
because for me a car is just a means of transportation. My requirements for a
car are that it's not too unsafe, has OK mpg, and doesn't break down too
often. That's why I got a 98 Honda Accord, works perfectly.

I understand that people can be into nice and expensive cars , but that's
gotta be one of the most expensive hobbies out there.

------
shawabawa3
> When I started working, I didn’t start spending.

I'm exactly the same. I see so many people living paycheck to paycheck, and
for me there is nothing more depressing.

I've only been working for around a year and a half and I already have the
economic freedom to be unemployed for a year.

Also, I don't really feel like I live frugally. I go out as much as I want to,
I go on holidays, I buy a few luxuries that I really want. I really don't
understand how people manage to spend so much

~~~
icebraining
_I really don 't understand how people manage to spend so much_

Maybe they just earn less than you?

~~~
dirktheman
Could be, but I have coworkers that make about the same amount of money as me,
yet they're not able to save money. They spend it mostly on clothes,
restaurants and bars. Some of them don't even have kids yet they manage to
consume their whole paycheck within the month.

~~~
hyphyphyph
There's a lot of shit that adds up. Booze is a serious killer. Cigarettes are
goddamn expensive. Clothes pile up in cost...

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jumblesale
This is a little condescending. I live frugally but have spent the money I've
saved on a house for my family to live in. I've contracted the last year to be
able to afford to travel around the world next month.

"You can enjoy your life right now. You just need to spend less money on shit
that you don’t need."

True, I don't _need_ a house or to go travelling but my life would be poorer
had I not invested in that shit.

~~~
hyphyphyph
You want condescending? 'cause his blog post wasn't. Look, like if you're
fucking happy right now, great! But if you have a reaction to his post that
makes you feel attacked, belittled, then there very well might be a good
reason for that. And boy, it ain't nothin' on the author.

------
bowietrousers
I know a few people who, if not live exactly like this, certainly think like
it.

Walling yourself off from all dependencies (physical, financial, emotional) in
order to grow your brain and Just Write Code might seem like a smart thing to
do, and the purism of it will appeal to some. If the OP genuinely obtains no
enjoyment at all from anything else, then that's fine - that's what it sounds
like.

But it's the pay-off that stings, the 'shit you don't need' attitude, which is
ultimately judging everyone else as inferior for not making the same choice,
or having the (immensely privileged?) ability to 'make your work your life'. I
love and value my family & my friends, and spending money to spend time with
them enriches my life.

Not everyone wants to be an island.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
Exactly.

I moan about work sometimes but I like work - I like the social interaction,
social interaction needs people, people are sometimes dicks, dicks are
something I moan about BUT overall I'm happier because I work despite
occasional downsides.

------
insuffi
I completely agree with the OP. Let's be honest - you don't NEED a 100 k car
right after graduation, even if you're earning a 100 k a year(I've seen this
happen).

What he's trying to say is that there's a huge difference between NEED and
WANT that people often mis-perceive.

If you only buy shit you NEED, you can save up, then quit your job and do
things that you WANT to do, without having to worry about job security, next
paycheck et cetera.

But people feel entitled. They DESERVE the car, they NEED the house. The
economy would die if everyone was frugal lol

~~~
Stranger2013
What if that car is a real chick-magnet though?

~~~
insuffi
Do you really want a chick that is attracted to your car instead of being
attracted to you?

~~~
digitalsushi
Maybe if you're dropping 100k on a car to get girls, you don't care what they
really think of you as long as they act a certain way. And maybe that's just
fine. Just a consideration.

------
Tyrannosaurs
I'm trying to put my finger on why people (including myself) find this piece a
little (unintentionally I suspect) disrespectful and I think it's that there's
something in the tone, and specifically in this phrase:

"You can enjoy your life right now. You just need to spend less money on shit
that you don’t need."

That suggests that those who follow a more conventional route are in some way
stumbling along dissatisfied with life and trying to fill the gaping void with
gaudy trinkets and baubles only to find that it's not working.

Maybe it's just me but I enjoy the holidays, I enjoy working every day with
smart people, I enjoy my family, I enjoy the security of owning my own home
and so on.

There's definitely something in what he's doing - prioritising what's
important to him and making that his goal rather than what might be more
conventionally expect of him - but, there's something in the tone that, for me
at least, doesn't make this point as well as it might.

------
tonylemesmer
If everyone lived like the OP would the economy still work? Maybe the economy
would shift.

I only buy second hand cars because I hate paying too much depreciation but
someone, somewhere is buying the new ones, which I can then take advantage of.

I try and live as frugally as possible but my idea of frugality is probably
way different to everyone elses, as is his.

~~~
wellboy
Then everybody would have their own startup. Awesome. :)

------
dirktheman
I found that most people I know spend their money according to their paycheck.
If you don't save money as soon as your paycheck comes in, it'll be gone by
the end of the month. No matter hwo much you make.

However, when you've come to the point of finding someone you love and want to
spend the rest of your life with, living the frugal student life isn't going
to cut it. You'll want to move to a bigger place, have kids (trust me, they're
expensive!), need a bigger car, etcetera. For us, this was a conscious choice.
We choose to spend money on our house, our kids, holidays, hobbies. We do save
quite a lot, but I think there is a nice middle ground between spending next
to nothing and living from paycheck to paycheck.

~~~
jlangenauer
I go one better than this: I have my monthly salary paid directly into my
savings account, then I "pay" myself weekly into a current account the amount
of money I actually live off. Your savings can accrue surprisingly fast like
this.

~~~
oinkgrr
I'm liking that idea. Anything that's not spent builds up nicely in the
savings account. It's normal to save a set amount each month and whatever is
left you just leave sitting in your current account. But that turns it on it's
head, leaving any surplus in the savings account. And paying yourself a budget
every week helps you manage the money.

------
gozmike
Bingo. I lived a similar situation (minus the post-education debt - yay
Canada!)

My lifestyle today isn't much different than what it was when I was a student
other than the addition of a mortgage I can easily afford.

I'm happy. I travel. I live. I just don't show off, nor do I get things for
the sake of having them. By surrounding yourself with family and good friends,
you can find happiness in so many other things than the material.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, when I spend to _live_ I won't spend on things, but
I will on experience. I'll happily forgo the latest iGadget and a car that
matches my socio-economic status and opt for an experience that will enrich my
life in some way.

------
deepvibrations
There seems to be a lot of chat about nothing in these comments...Let me put
it simply for everyone: "The art of being happy lies in the power of
extracting happiness from common things."

That is the core message and there is a lot of truth behind it...

------
GotAnyMegadeth
I also practically live as I did when I was a student. The main difference is
I have a mobile phone a Spotify subscription. Living like this is easy,
convincing your gf to isn't...

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nileshtrivedi
Someone gave me this financial advice once: "Keep your lifestyle 3 to 5 years
behind your growing income."

I followed it and have had a similar experience. Since my first job, I went
and got an MBA, paid off the student loan, bought a house and at 31, I still
have enough savings to last me 3-4 years at my family's current lifestyle.

Frugality is powerful.

~~~
Stranger2013
"bought" a house or taken a loan?

~~~
nileshtrivedi
Bought. I didn't need a loan.

------
wellboy
Well you're a creator and being in the hamster wheel of having a job just
doesn't logically make sense to you.

You seek freedom to create thing with nothing except from your own neurons.

That's why you'll be a millionaire very soon, but you won't buy things from
it, you'll just keep hacking. A true entrepreneur. :)

~~~
bowietrousers
What, hoarding profits is the right thing to do?

If everyone acted like that there wouldn't be an economy.

~~~
wellboy
Once you made your first million, you become an Angel investor of course,
hacking the startup ecosysstem. :)

But you don't spend on cars or shit like that's just baggage. For every new
item you own, you have to think of it, you have to worry about insurance,
maintenance, cleaning _cringe_

~~~
hyphyphyph
That's why you buy a car; to put the baggage in the trunk.

------
kjjw
The removal of all responsibility from my life would leave me dissatisfied.
For me a rich life involves interconnectedness with other people - families,
kids, friends, colleagues. That interconnectedness gives rise to
responsibility. And that's the way I like it.

------
dagw
"You can enjoy your life right now. You just need to spend less money on shit
that you don’t need."

But it's the shit I don't need that ads to the enjoyment of my life.

~~~
wellboy
In the short run, but for every dollar you spend, you give a bit more of your
own freedom away.

~~~
russgray
That's an entirely reasonable trade-off. Freedom may be the destination but
there's no reason that the journey has to suck.

------
wellboy
It's funny how many people are still offended by others discovering
entrepreneurship. even on hackernews. Anybody an idea why?

~~~
hyphyphyph
Because most of the people in the startup community are uninspired wannabe
dreamers filled with shallow ambitions of the social acceptance they know,
deep down, they don't particularly deserve of their own personal merit. It's
our club and you're not cool enough.

That's what I'm thinking, anyway.

------
spacec0wb0y
This was surprisingly uninspiring.

~~~
hyphyphyph
Go take speed.

------
f4stjack
so... how does he work?

