
The WRT54GL: A 54Mbps router from 2005 still makes millions for Linksys - antr
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/07/the-wrt54gl-a-54mbps-router-from-2005-still-makes-millions-for-linksys/
======
mehdix
Ten years ago I was studying CS in a conservative small religios city in
central Iran. My girlfriend was living in a dormitory one kilometer away. Due
to limitations I was unable to meet her freely. I borrowed a WRT54G and an
outdoor antenna and made a WAN. The default output power was insufficient for
my antenna and my intended target laptop in the other side of the city,
however. With WRT54G having its firmware open sourced, I downloaded a custom
built of it and hacked the device to increase the output power. Not only I
circumvent the limitations, but I used an old 300mhz Intel PC as an internet
gateway to let her access internet using her laptop. We were finally able to
communicate freely at any time. My thanks to Linksys for crating this
fantastic hardware and opening it to the world.

~~~
devereaux
And this is why the FCC requirements make little sense. Such products are used
all over the world. Forcefully limiting the freedom in one locale is catering
to the lowest common denominator.

Instead, the ability to use spectrum should be controlled by the end user,
through some hardware measure (ex: jumpers) that is done at the user own
responsibility.

~~~
colanderman
"The government should not regulate the shared limited resource of radio
bandwidth because it is useful to work around restrictions on free speech" is
nonsensical.

If your government significantly curtails free speech, then it either is also
so fascist that it doesn't care what you think about bandwidth regulation, or
(as in the case of the GP) it is so technologically incompetent that it
effectively does not regulate the airwaves. Either way your suggestion is
useless.

~~~
bhickey
You're misrepresenting what the GP post said and being obnoxious about it.

Given that there are different regulatory regimens, locking down hardware to a
particular locale may be inappropriate. For example, Channel 14 is fine in
Japan and 13 in the EU but not the US. Restricting the whole world to 11
channels to comply with US law would be silly.

~~~
colanderman
Yes, I misread his post. My mistake.

------
CaptSpify
Do you hear that hardware manufacturers? People are willing to pay a lot, and
you don't have to redesign/upgrade every year, if you make a simple, hackable,
usable system!

I wish more hardware companies thought like this

~~~
deelowe
Most companies don't want to make open/hackable solutions, because it makes
the hardware a commodity. After all, they don't make the chips, they probably
contract out the PCB design and manufacture or it's at least done via some
sort of JDM process.

What's left at that point? Brand, mechanical design, and software... There's
not a whole lot to differentiate yourself if you let go of the software piece.

~~~
criddell
> There's not a whole lot to differentiate yourself if you let go of the
> software piece.

And yet it's letting go of the software piece that differentiates the WRT54GL.

~~~
deelowe
Really? DDWRT supports a ton of routers.

~~~
criddell
So then why do you think the WRT54GL has lasted so long? Is there something
else about that router that keeps it selling (it's #28 in routers at Amazon)?

~~~
Qworg
The best hardware in bad situations. They just work, no matter what, and never
die.

The software is just a part of the success.

------
spash
Besides DD-WRT, which can be at times quite flaky a unreliable on WRT54GL with
its outdated OS base and a slow UI (and also a real pain to keep track on the
few working firmware revisions as time progresses over the years; many DD-WRT
users and the DD-WRT site will sadly keep suggesting to use half a decade old
firmware for it [1][2][3] and any 'official' activity seems to have stopped
years ago) and the Open-WRT which sadly hasn't supported WRT54GL for the last
several generations [4] despite its by now somewhat ironic name, there's also
Tomato by Shibby [5] (note: This is a fork of the original 'well known' Tomato
that stopped its development half a decade ago - though surprisingly people
sill run even that one), which is amazingly supported today with regular and
frequent updates [6], latest security fixes and modern revisions of base
software and OS tools, with properly working kernel 2.6-generation, IPv6, QoS
and not at the very least with the staple slick Tomato configuration
interface. If you happen to run a WRT54GL, you must give Shibby's Tomato a try
sometime to see what this piece of hardware can still do.

Disclaimer: I'm by no means affiliated, but run WRT54GL hardware actively and
at times I'm still regularly amazed at what Shibby can squeeze out of the mere
4MB of flash space and a hardware that wouldn't properly run a smartwatch
alarm applet in 2016.

\--

[1] - [http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linksys_WRT54GL](http://www.dd-
wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linksys_WRT54GL)

[2] - [http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51486](http://www.dd-
wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51486)

[3] - [http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=288371](http://www.dd-
wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=288371)

    
    
      If you're lucky, you may also end up with gems like this:
      > Malachi - DD-WRT Guru
      > Your router was made in the 1800's. Why do you need firmware made yesterday.
    

[4] -
[https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt54g](https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt54g)

[5] - [http://tomato.groov.pl/](http://tomato.groov.pl/)

[6] - [http://tomato.groov.pl/?page_id=78](http://tomato.groov.pl/?page_id=78)

~~~
rconti
I always loved Tomato; ran it on my 54GLs which I still have (though one is
pre-L branding).

I had a Cisco E3000 that I tried to love; bought it because it supported DD-
WRT so once I got sick of the Cisco firmware I tried DD-WRT. It seemed like an
endless headache and never worked quite right, so I flashed back to the stock
Cisco stuff; I realized the stock OS supported everything I needed anyway, and
was more stable. I wish consumer stuff had more cool graphs and the like.

~~~
lmns
>It seemed like an endless headache and never worked quite right

The E3000 is based on a Broadcom SoC without free drivers. That's always a bad
sign for third party support. Basically you are limited to some ancient kernel
which may or may not be running stable. I know the E3000 and DD-WRT on it is
indeed a mess.

"Supported" with proprietary drivers often means nothing more than that it
boots somehow. The same goes for the new Linksys models with "official"
OpenWRT support. The wifi isn't stable at all.

------
rcthompson
If anyone is looking for a cheap up-to-date replacement that runs OpenWRT, I
recently replaced my WRT54GL with a TP-Link Archer C7, and I've been quite
happily running OpenWRT on it for the past few months.

Note that you have to do a bit of hackery to install OpenWRT, since the stock
firmware refuses to install unsigned updates through the web interface:
[https://pappp.net/?p=1525](https://pappp.net/?p=1525)

~~~
Scaevolus
OpenWRT on the Archer C7 doesn't support the hardware NAT acceleration (aka
cut through forwarding), so you won't be able to achieve more than ~150Mbps.

~~~
rcthompson
Do you know a similar speed device where this is supported?

Also I don't think this is an issue for most home router situations, since few
home internet connections in the USA offer more than 150Mbps. But if you were
shopping for routers to install in an office building or something, it might
be an issue.

------
brudgers
I have a WRT54G [not GL] that currently lives as the wireless interface an
XBox 360. Most versions of the G are upgradable to to DD-WRT. That's what the
"WRT" in DD-WRT was all about. Around the time I bought it, and in the years
when the G's were still available, the GL's sold at a substantial premium.

Maybe there's something magical about $69 pricing. The HP12C lives on after 35
years.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C)

[http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-12c-financial-
programmable-...](http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-12c-financial-programmable-
calculator-p-12c-aba--
1?jumpid=ba_r329_hhocse&aoid=44661&003=6663635&010=12C%23ABA&ci_sku=12C%23ABA&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=)

------
Lagged2Death
What I want to know (and what the article doesn't address) is: Why are so many
other wi-fi routers such trash?

I mean, I sort of know why: Because manufacturers keep making new hardware
without the long-term support commitment that's necessary to get the firmware
truly sorted out. But how did the market come to this?

I would have thought that the average home router customer, at this point,
groans in dread when its time to buy a router. To heck with crazy speeds my
"broadband" cannot realize, never mind bleeding-edge protocols and
questionable NAS USB ports. Don't we all want something that doesn't need a
manual reset every couple of days? Why isn't uptime the #1 selling point by
now?

~~~
otabdeveloper
Up until a just few years ago the Internet was fueled by extensive growth:
router manufacturers (among others) made profits by selling to people who had
never bought routers before.

This has all but ended now, and people shopping for their second or third
router will be making different decisions.

~~~
fuzzfactor
You can sell a lot of garbage to consumers who have never bought that product
type before.

If the full-performance product is crowded out, it's sub-type can be lost
forever.

Once you enter the Garbaceous Period it can be the actual end of a higher
quality era.

------
ausjke
Mine went dead after about 8 years of use, and really 11G is a bit slow these
days when multiple devices started streaming. I wish Linksys can have a
reasonably priced 11N version that can load open source code to continue this
legacy.

~~~
itp
You could look at the WRT1200AC. It's available as a certified refurb on
amazon.com for $90, and as part of their WRT line is intended to support open
source firmwares.

~~~
loopbit
> as part of their WRT line is intended to support open source firmwares

Not sure about the 1200, but I have the WRT610N and it has never worked
completely with Open/DD-WRT. The best I got (before leaving it and returning
to the original firmware) was a functional router but no USB and no 5GHz band.

~~~
casenjo
Wow that's really surprising. Is it one of the later revisions? I'm running
the 610N with DD-WRT and I the 5GHz band running just fine @ 300 mbps

------
epx
I have a powerline adapter (made in 2014) that hangs every other day if I let
it operate in 802.11n (and it hangs every day if in mixed mode). Pinging it
from my Raspy mitigates but does not eliminate the problem. I even installed a
wall switch in the wall plug so it would be easier to recycle! In the end, I
had to put it in 802.11g mode to have a slower but dependable home network.
There are 3 routers in the house, fortunately the others do work in 802.11n
without needing a power cycle from time to time (the most stable is the one
supplied by the cable company - that's really surprising).

This is the scenario of consumer-grade WiFi - way less reliable than 10 years
ago. When I replace the powerline by a blue cable, I can choose between buying
a very expensive AP, or a 'modern' AP that freezes, or a WRT54GL that works.

------
616c
I have been curious, given all the echoes here about FCC wireless radio
regulation, if these devices will in fact increase in price, and those like
it, as this niche community covets them.

Kind of like as I watch the OpenGarages movement, the next time I buy a car I
might pay premium for something vintage with the most minimal computerized
components. Haha.

------
yason
I have a WRT54G that I bought in 2004 or 2005. I haven't even replaced its
firmware because it does what I need, and it still just works and always has.
No lagging, no crashes, nothing but straight uptime year after year. I do
wonder if I should buy a GL model as a "spare" in case it goes dead at some
point.

~~~
wang_li
Have you tried to log into the admin web page lately? The default firmware
generates SSL certificates signed with algorithms that modern browsers have
black listed and won't access the page.

------
Torgo
Still have two originals in operation in older relatives' houses. God bless
this little device.

------
jagermo
I love these things. They were the basis for my first article in 2004. Its
horrible to read now, but I had so much fun tinkering and researching and
getting my first story as a tech journalist out to the readers.

------
cocotino
Hm, it costs EUR 47,73 here in Amazon... How is it still at that high price?

~~~
cvwright
The model's reputation for reliability probably plays a big role here. Read
the reviews of almost any other modern wifi router, and you'll see lots of
complaints about even expensive models frying themselves in the first year.

~~~
bnolsen
I still keep old wrt54g's around for backup duty. But I really do want a
router that's actively kept up to date.

Last year i bought a xiaomi mini miwifi (less than 20usd at the time). With
openwrt it ran mostly okay but the AC was occasionally locking up requiring a
reboot. Thankfully with 15.03.1 that now seems to be fixed. Ordered another
one of these for my parents who were having serious problems with netgear
router that I hope to get soon. Not having gigabit is a bummer on these but
they do well for low speed residential service and they are super cheap!

------
alwaysdownvoted
Could it be that the ability to more fully control a computer, e.g., a router,
makes the computer more valuable?

What use are greater feature specifications if the user does not have anything
close to full control over the computer?

How about a computer that where the seller makes it deliberately difficult to
open, or impossible to add RAM, or threatens repair shops with litigation?

When the user powers on, the computer immediately starts phoning home to
various endpoints controlled by the seller and the user cannot turn this off.
Are users presumed to be inept?

Does it matter if this computer has a sexier form factor and better
specifications, not to mention a higher price tag, than another one without
the restrictions on tinkering?

------
goombastic
I have a 11 year old WRTGL that got hit by lightning, fried two ports
including the WAN port, but the other ports still work and it is still going
strong.

------
overcast
I still have mine, going strong with Tomato firmware on it. Haven't touched
the thing in years. Amazing piece of hardware, even at 50/5mbit service.

------
Waterluvian
Doesn't the TI 83 calculator still sell quite well? It's a solid machine that
does one thing and does it well.

~~~
antisthenes
I don't think that's quite an accurate comparison, considering schools almost
nearly force you to purchase the Ti-83 (or they have been for the past few
decades until very recently, when the Ti Nspire took over)

The WRT54GL is a purely market solution in a commoditized market where the
consumer is not pressured or forced into buying it.

~~~
Waterluvian
You may be right. Haven't thought of that.

------
swsieber
Obligatory comment/question: What routers do you use to run OpenWRT? What's
the price like?

~~~
freestockoption
I have a DIR-505L ($15) I use for traveling. Has OpenVPN and SSIDs setup to
bridge to the VPN (on layer 2). So when I connect to that special SSID it's as
if I'm still onsite. It's also just a wallwart, so it's easy to travel with
and doesn't look suspicious.

I also have a DIR-835 ($20). Also use it as a VPN router (both client and
server). It's a lot more powerful than the DIR-505L and does 5ghz.

I used to use a WRT54GL, but then 802.11N came along and I also wanted 5ghz.
So I got a Linksys E3000, but I later bricked it during a botched firmware
upgrade. The uptime on that thing was like 400 days until I had a power
outage.

Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding a OpenWRT router that will support
gigabit routing for the WAN. So now I use the AT&T supplied router/modem.
Unfortunately with AT&T, bridging just does double NATing (and the box has a
connection limit of ~2000 for ipv4).

------
hypercluster
Great and just today it made me quite angry, wifi on mine is not very
reliable.

------
nabla9
I bought mine around 2007 and I have used it continuously.

------
kyriakos
my father is still using one which i bought 8-9 years ago. running dd-wrt, its
unbelievably stable.

