
For six years, man who refuses to identify himself has held in a Canadian prison - ductionist
https://nationalpost.com/news/the-unknown-person-for-six-years-a-man-who-refuses-to-identify-himself-has-been-held-in-a-canadian-maximum-security-prison
======
steveharman
> Police in Britain, meanwhile, said a fingerprint check came back positive
> for the name Bouon Emmanuel Febile, a citizen of Cameroon. Any elation at a
> breakthrough was muted by a follow up cable from London: It was also
> positive for a different citizen of Cameroon, a citizen of Haiti, and a man
> of unknown citizenship.

Err, does this cast doubt on the reliability of fingerprint evidence?

The term "unique" is widely used in conjunction with fingerprints.

~~~
shakna
> Err, does this cast doubt on the reliability of fingerprint evidence?

This isn't really news, though not well publicised in mainstream media.

Fingerprinting isn't really "unique" enough to identify an individual from a
very large number of suspects. It is good enough to help identify one suspect
from a small pool. (And as soon as you run it against a large criminal
database, you've opened yourself up to risking misidentification).

There have been several wrongful convictions based on fingerprint data [0]
that were later overruled.

Fingerprinting has been accepted as scientifically accurate, but that hasn't
really been verified by studies in the real world. [1][2]

[0]
[https://www.bu.edu/sjmag/scimag2005/opinion/fingerprints.htm](https://www.bu.edu/sjmag/scimag2005/opinion/fingerprints.htm)

[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093498/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093498/)

[2]
[https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=458960](https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=458960)

~~~
jmkni
I bet somebody will make an app at some point to collect everybody's
fingerprint, under the guise of finding your "fingerprint buddy" or something.

~~~
dhimes
Under the guise of unlocking your phone...

------
perlgeek
It's fun to speculate why somebody would behave this way.

A few things I could imagine:

* he fears being treated worse if his identity is found out (like an extradition to the US where he could face capital punishment, or detainment by another power that would treat him worse)

* he has a fundamental distrust of authorities that makes him somehow behave that way

* he has serious mental health issues (the article doesn't mention any psychological assessment)

Given his history of fraud, I'd tend toward the first idea, but who knows?

Any other ideas?

~~~
chongli
_like an extradition to the US where he could face capital punishment_

Canada does not extradite people without assurances that capital punishment is
off the table.

~~~
sundayedition
Does that still apply even if they're not a Canadian citizen, and not in
Canada legally?

I'd think there would be a point where they might say "not my problem, not
getting involved"

------
keiferski
_The courts have designated the man “the Unknown Person” and he has been
behind bars for more than six years because officials don’t know who he is.
This puts him in a bizarre state of limbo: Until Canadian officials know his
identity and nationality, they cannot deport him; until they can deport him,
they don’t want to release him._

The headline is clickbait and I have flagged it. He was arrested for a crime
and refuses to identify himself, isn’t a Canadian citizen, and the police
haven’t had luck figuring out his identity. They can’t deport him and they
can’t just release him if he arrived illegally. This is all in the article.

I don’t know what else one could expect the police to do. It’s certainly an
odd Kafkesque situation, but he doesn’t seem to want to get out of it.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
The bit I don't understand is why they didn't charge him? It says he was
arrested for fraud - the "black banknote" scam - and that they ended his trial
before it concluded in order to deport him.

Why not conclude the trial, and any other legal processes (eg charge with
impersonation, etc.), hand down a sentence, if there's more time to serve have
him serve it. Then give him leave to remain or deport to the country he
arrived from (I think that's the allowed routine in international law)?

~~~
stanski
They didn't proceed with the trial because either way he would be deported.
Simple as that.

If they had convicted him, he'd be deported.

If they couldn't convict him, he'd be deported still (he's not legally allowed
to stay in Canada).

So what's the point of proceeding with the trial?

The issue here is not even whether he's guilty. It's not knowing where he's
from because he'd rather stay in prison in Canada then go back to Cameroon.
Meanwhile acting like there's a big injustice perpetrated against him. He
might change his mind at some point but then again maybe not. Either way it's
a ridiculous bind for authorities.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>he's not legally allowed to stay in Canada //

Doesn't that mean he has had a (summary) conviction, eg for outstaying a visa?

Do other countries have an established process that would resolve this
situation?

------
keiferski
I’ve always wondered if the world would benefit from a “Freeport” type
city/country. No borders, minimal government, no identity documents. Places
like this existed in the past; America itself was essentially a “fresh start”
country for a good portion of its existence. If such a place existed today,
the Canadian government could just put him on a one-way flight there.

But I feel like today, it would probably just end up as a crime haven. I can
see far-flung space colonies fulfilling this role if/once space travel really
kicks off. An interesting thought experiment, at least.

~~~
aliswe
Svalbard?

~~~
keiferski
Probably the closest thing to it, but it’s still functionally under the
authority of Norway.

------
pbhjpbhj
This raises an interesting question for me, can we use biometric data to
establish country (ie geographic region) of origin, in the general case?

Hair composition, dental treatments, inoculation marks, fingernails, faeces,
blood .. obviously some of these are short term indicators.

How good of a probability can we get to, how tightly can we pinpoint someone
geographically?

~~~
nradov
No in general it's not possible. There are a few isolated tribes where this
might work, but the rest of humanity is too mixed and varied. The best you can
do is a rough probability.

------
jmpman
Why don’t they just find the other three people with similar fingerprints.
Confirm they exist, and call it a day.

------
gpvos
The article is from May 2019 and says he asked for a meeting "next Wednesday".
Any news about that?

~~~
gpvos
Looks like it's unlikely that any more news will be forthcoming:
[https://ottawacitizen.com/news/bizarre-case-of-unknown-
perso...](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/bizarre-case-of-unknown-person-keeps-
its-secrets-as-immigration-board-blocks-publics-
access/wcm/65dd1719-836d-4a25-b8e7-bae936504b13)

------
RickJWagner
This would make an interesting movie, once we learn the whole truth.

------
winter_blue
In the US, there is an effective limit of 6 months on the
detention/incarceration of people whose nationality cannot be determined (or
who are stateless). They are protected by two Supreme Court rulings: Zadvydas
v. Davis (2001)[1] and Clark v. Martinez (2005)[2].

Although, right now, the conservative majority Supreme Court is in the process
of slowing rolling back these protections, taking us to a darker period. With
Jennings v. Rodriguez[3], asylum seekers can effectively be imprisoned
indefinitely _without even an opportunity_ for a bond hearing (not actual
release, but even the opportunity to seek one) while their asylum (or other
immigration) case is pending.

Conservatives Supreme Court justices have in the past, during oral hearings,
spoken from the bench, about their contempt for _Zadvydas v. Davis_. It’s
uncertain how long these basic human rights protections will survive.

[1] Zadvydas v. Davis:
[https://www.oyez.org/cases/2000/99-7791](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2000/99-7791)
;
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadvydas_v._Davis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadvydas_v._Davis)

[2] Clark v. Martinez:
[https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-878](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-878)
;
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_v._Martinez](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_v._Martinez)

[3] Jennings v. Rodriguez:
[https://www.oyez.org/cases/2017/15-1204](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2017/15-1204)
; [https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/jennings-v-
rodri...](https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/jennings-v-rodriguez/)

~~~
romaaeterna
To give the conservative perspective: Part of the problem is that the Liberal
abuse of asylum provisions has created human trafficking chains of human
misery to both America and Europe, with rape/torture/death being the norm in
these human movements. Beyond that, the mass migration leads to tremendous
political and economic issues in the target countries, disproportionately
affecting the poorest. The classic liberal position has been to resist these
flows for that reason, while conservatives have been happy to overlook the
human exploitation factors in order reap the benefits of cheap labor for the
elite.

------
thbr99
With illegal border crossing happening everyday at Roxham border, cases like
these are bound to happen even more costing Canadian taxpayer $$$.

~~~
jaeh
he immigrated legally on a 10 day visa, there is no connection to illegal
immigration here, why would you bring it up?

~~~
thbr99
A visitor visa is not legal immigration.

I had to state the countries I visited for the past 10 years. Jobs I had for
10 years,purpose etc when I applied for a visa. CBSA also did background
checks on me, called one of my employers for verification. I figured all these
by access to information reports later on out of curiosity.

How did this guy get a pass with CBSA ?

~~~
jaeh
i guess you applied for a work visa, he applied for a visitor visa.

and yes, a visitor visa is legal immigration for a certain timeframe, after
which you overstay your visa.

you still legally immigrated, your charge will be overstaying your visa, not
related to your immigration at all.

~~~
DKnoll
Visitor visas still require the 10 years of work history if you are not from a
visa-exempt country (like France).

