
Japan Is Selling Ice Cream That Doesn't Melt - sndean
http://www.cntraveler.com/story/japan-non-melting-ice-cream
======
Mikeb85
You can prevent melting with a bunch of stabilisers but it's not a better
product. Part of the fun of ice cream is the fact it melts.

~~~
Dylan16807
> Part of the fun of ice cream is the fact it melts.

Are there other foods that you think would be improved by adding a melting
feature?

In other words, if ice cream didn't melt as you held it would you improve it
by adding melting?

Because "part of the fun" to me sounds like a knee-jerk justification rather
than a real evaluation of whether it's a good thing.

~~~
khedoros1
You don't like licking the liquid as it melts off and starts dropping down the
side? Or putting your lips on the top and sucking the dessert as it melts?

I don't think that you can say that melting is objectively better, but I think
it's an intrinsic property of the food.

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kobeya
Not really, no.

~~~
khedoros1
Hm. Well, to each their own. That's one of the aspects of eating ice cream
that I enjoy, and I'd miss it eating a product that didn't melt the same way.
Kind of like eating barbecue ribs without getting your fingers all covered in
sauce; along with the taste, the experience is part of why I eat the food.

~~~
kobeya
I tend to avoid ribs, as good as they taste, because it's a pain to get my
fingers all covered in sauce. To each their own I guess.

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Powerofmene
This is much like the Great Value brand ice cream sandwiches that did not melt
for hours when left in the sun. The more cream in an ice cream product the
faster it melts.

In some cases slow melting may not be a good thing.

~~~
kpil
True. The wallpaper paste "ice creams" just get skin on the outside...

It's surprising that people doesn't recognize quality. Eg Ben & Jerry's seems
to be popular but I never found one that wasn't made of too much low quality
candy in cheap ice cream.

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sosborn
Define 'quality.' The point of food is to enjoy it. Others seem to enjoy Ben
and jerrys even though you don't. It isn't a 'shame,' it's just circumstance.

~~~
notdang
I can give you an example: Hershey's chocolate. For some reason people in US
and Mexico seem to enjoy it.

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junkculture
Hershey's is a category all by itself. The first time I tasted their products
I couldn't believe that they sold at all, leave alone in volumes.

But if you've never tasted Lindt, you'd never know what you're missing.

~~~
bitexploder
Look if people still eat fermented shark some of us can enjoy an occasional
Hershey bar. Also, while good, Lindt typically contains soy products. There
are a lot of very good milk and dark chocolates out there these days. Alter
Eco 85% is my stand by. I know Hershey's doesn't have a local of cocoa
content, but food tastes are as much culture as quality for some things.

~~~
junkculture
Fermented shark? TIL.

I don't personally know what's wrong with soy, but an excess of anything is
bad in the long run.

~~~
bitexploder
Phytoestrogens. There are enough issues around them that I just avoid soy. I
know the small amount in soy leichitin is not a really a big deal, but I try
to be consistent and just keep it eliminated.

~~~
chc
Hershey's chocolate contains milk, which comes from a pregnant cow, which
produces _actual_ estrogen in massive quantities. It also contains isoflavones
(aka phytoestrogens) from the cacao. If you're eating dairy and chocolate
while avoiding soy, you're probably paying too much attention to FUD.

~~~
devotedtoneu
The writer likely has chosen an ingredient to focus on, I'm sure there are a
laundry list of items that may expose an inadequacy of focusing on a specific
item, however, his effort can be understood and he should not be called a
hypocrite

~~~
chc
They contrasted two products, Hershey chocolate and Lindt chocolate, and said
Lindt chocolate was worse because it contains isoflavones, when in fact both
do. I'm not saying anyone's a hypocrite — I'm pointing out that the concern
over "phytoestrogens" in soy is largely the result of pop-nutrition FUD, and
in other foods (known by their more common name of "isoflavones"), they are
commonly considered to have some health benefits.

~~~
bitexploder
You are totally right, btw. It is very difficult to eat food based on any sort
of nutritional principles. Start from a simple place: I want to limit my
consumption of phytoestrogen compounds (isoflavones). Some of them are much
stronger than others. Some foods you consume in much larger amounts than
others. And, save for extreme cases, phytoestrogen hasn't been shown to cause
any real problems in male hormones. Still, they seem worth avoiding.

I guess the point was, it really depends. If you are already getting
isoflavones from particular sources and you are controlling for that, then it
might make sense to avoid other sources as strenuously as you can (avoid Soy).
Which, for me, the only real source of them in my diet is chocolate. Plus not
all isoflavones are created equally. Some have stronger estrogen-like effects
than others.

In moderation some health benefits. Anyway, I was just pointing out if one of
your dietary rules is to "avoid soy" then use a different chocolate bar. It is
very difficult to use scientific evidence to build a diet as there is a lot of
contradictory evidence the studies available for a given nutritional topic are
often of dubious quality. For example, try and take something like the book
from T. Colin Campbell, The China Study, and make an evidence based opinion on
if he is correct or not. Then look at the work by folks like Ray Peat. You can
find endless supporting and non-supporting evidence for virtually any food or
compound in food and it becomes a real mess to develop any sort of evidence
based diet that isn't "controversial" to some large chunk of reasonably well
educated people.

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magoon
I know this is going to be unpopular, but my family spends more on the Haagen
Dazs because it's one of the only actual real ice creams without the guar gum
and other fillers. I looked at the ingredients of so many brands in the
grocery store before realizing.

~~~
Dylan16807
Guar gum is just a thickener. What's the actual filler material?

~~~
pixelcloud
Breyers Vanilla Frozen Dessert (because they legally cannot call it icecream).

MODIFIED MILK INGREDIENTS, SUGAR, WATER, GLUCOSE, COCONUT OIL, NATURAL VANILLA
FLAVOUR, MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, VEGETABLE GUMS (GUAR, CAROB BEAN),
CARRAGEENAN, NATURAL COLOUR.

Haagen-Dazs Vanilla

ingredients: cream, skim milk, cane sugar, egg yolks, vanilla extract.

~~~
crispweed
Personally (ignoring sugars) the 'MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES' is the bit I try to
avoid, not worrying so much about the gums.

Mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono-
_and_diglycerides_of_fatt...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono-
_and_diglycerides_of_fatty_acids)

Seems like this replaces hydrogenated oils across a whole range of products,
and I'm suspicious that it's just a way to avoid public concerns about
hydrogenated oils by replacing them with something similar just without the
same stigma.

Quick search found this article, which states some more specific concerns, if
in a rather extreme way: [https://foodbabe.com/2015/07/31/theres-no-safe-
level-ingredi...](https://foodbabe.com/2015/07/31/theres-no-safe-level-
ingredient-almost-everything/) (but of course you can search and find similar
concerns about many things, doesn't make them true).

~~~
Dylan16807
Well those searches sure lead to a bunch of stupid hyperbole. "no safe level"
doesn't exactly mean much...

So the issue is that the monoglycerides and diglycerides _might_ be
constructed with trans-fatty acids, and the label won't let you know.

But given that this is an ingredient behind vanilla you're not looking at very
large amounts in the first place.

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tdeck
My brother did a science experiment in 5th grade to see which ice cream melted
the fastest, and I remember staring at one of them (I think it was Turkey
Hill) because it never seemed to melt. It just turned into a white foam.

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nnq
My chemistry is very rusty but, there seems to be a _short road_ from
_polyphenols_ to _polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons_ (PAHs - the stuff you
might use in a laboratory to _produce cancers_ (!!!) in order to study
them)... or am I wrong?

I won't be so keen of increased usage of food additive that get easily
transformed into proven carcinogen compounds when some stupid cook or food
producer decides to "deep fry the ice-cream cookies" or some other stupid shit
like that sounds unhealthy but harmless... Even if the compound itself is
healthy in its natural combination, I imagine the percent in strawberries is
low, and humans' propensity to fry, prolonged bake, or grill & smoke a
strawberry concentrate is low, whereas if you start using this additive on a
wide scale and it ends up in all sorts of other products...

~~~
falsedan
FUD

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circlingthesun
Reminds me of Ali G's ice cream glove:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TR0vUPQCs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TR0vUPQCs)

~~~
dangero
Yeah my first thought was I believe Donald Trump was the person who came up
with the idea for drip proof icecream (when talking to Ali G)

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wongarsu
The time-lapse they link shows the ice-cream almost immediately starting to
melt.

It is pretty incredible, and the ice-cream seems to keep its shape for hours
despite melting, and apparently melts slower than regular ice cream. No need
to ruin it by vastly over-hyping it in the title.

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chickenbane
Walmart also sells ice cream that doesn't melt.

Snopes:
[http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/walmarticecream.asp](http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/walmarticecream.asp)

Video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SozZHZAWS64](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SozZHZAWS64)

~~~
vittore
You beat me on this comment with exactly the same youtube link!

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cmurf
By "doesn't melt" they mean it doesn't liquefy. It goes from a solid when
frozen, to something that looks whipped/gelatinous when room temperature.

~~~
dasil003
Which frankly seems super gross to me.

~~~
cmurf
I think the idea is that it just doesn't make a mess, but it might also have
advantages refreezing from a semi-thawed state. Might have positive
implications for shipping/distribution where a crate of ice cream sits at a
loading dock for just a wee bit too much time before making it into freezers.

~~~
dasil003
It also has commercial disadvantages though, such as the fact that even if it
never gets warm, I'll be too grossed out just by the thought of what it's like
when it warms up that I'll never buy any.

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jackcosgrove
This adds a whole new twist to the phrase "vanilla ice cream".

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a_c
"But the Kanazawa Ice retained its original shape even after five minutes. It
also tasted cool."

video here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA-
lc6ZnWLo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA-lc6ZnWLo)

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mattmaroon
Unless that secret ingredient has some insulating properties, the "tasting
cool" is almost certainly a visual effect. I'd love to see a triangle test
where blindfolded people tried to pick out the warm one. I'd bet they'd be
damn near 100%.

~~~
beering
It's likely still cool after sitting for a while, just not ice cold. If you
take melted ice cream and eat/drink it, it's still cool, although probably
less pleasant.

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scotth
But does it melt in your mouth?

~~~
anotheryou
This is the essential property of ice and choclate, I also wondered.

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unicornporn
Too bad slightly melt ice cream tastes a lot better. I usually wait 10 minutes
in warm weather before eating the ice cream.

~~~
tpush
Is American ice cream different from other countries when it comes to melting?

When I carry ice cream in warm weather(Germany) it melts to a puddle in about
~4 minutes.

~~~
digi_owl
Having seen Americans discuss food online for years i can't help but think
that their processed food make European processed food seem almost farm fresh.

~~~
coldtea
That's somewhat accurate.

But the preference for "melted ice-cream" is clearly an outlier opinion,
regardless.

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orthoganol
I had non melting ice cream in Shanghai, at a relatively overpriced/ touristy,
outdoor seating restaurant. It felt like I was eating some weird synthesized
product from a lab. It didn't taste very good either. There is no reason for
us to go in this direction.

Edit - whelp, after insulting religious institutions on the Muzzmatch thread,
I have been defaulted to the bottom of comment threads, despite upvotes.
That's happened to all my comments since then, when they used to be defaulted
at top and usually hung around there. Hopefully it's temporary? May be in for
a karma winter.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Sometimes the mods will revoke those things if you talk to them about it.
Still bloody annoying that they use adversarial stealth tactics on people who
are arguing in good faith, but there you go.

In any case, I remember the Muzzmatch thread, and taking any excuse to preach
at people is no more appealing in atheists than it is in theists.

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oculusthrift
a little offtopic but i find it weird we say "japan" when we really mean some
company within japan.

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guiseroom
Now if they could figure out how to keep it cold without refrigeration.

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bsder
If this keeps water and oil bound together, how can this not affect taste and
especially smell? The whole point of taste and especially smell is being
triggered by specific molecules upon dissociation.

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droidist2
I just got a craving for astronaut ice cream

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze-
dried_ice_cream](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze-dried_ice_cream)

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cwyers
That's not ice cream and it melts.

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hristov
Ok I did not read the article but if Japan has invented ice 9 (as seems to be
the case from the title), run for the hills, we are all screwed.

~~~
quickthrower2
What is ice 9?

They mention Polyphenol

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sewer_bird
It's a plot device from Kurt Vonnegut's book "Cat's Cradle". It's a good read
if you're looking for a recommendation

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coldtea
Reminds me of this:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLHRjaUBb3o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLHRjaUBb3o)

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mrmondo
I’d like to see some scientific studies with decent citation (and potentially
well sized sample sizes) around the health impacts of eating / digesting said
compound. IMO there is a huge difference in taste between ‘simple’ ice cream
recipes vs complex highly manufactured ice cream, I’m weary of adding another
state controlling compound to the mix.

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KayL
Is it snow skin mooncake with ice cream appearance?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_skin_mooncake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_skin_mooncake)

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soyiuz
The worst (for my taste) is Mister Softee, common among New York ice cream
trucks. It tastes like plastic foam and does not melt well. I'll prefer the
cream-based five ingredients any day.

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subwayclub
My first thought was: Dippin' Dots, the ice cream of the future.

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grabcocque
I wouldn't let the fact that many polyphenols are known to be carcinogenic,
mutagenic and genotoxic get in the way of enjoying so Mr Softee, now would I?

~~~
biotech
Could you post the research that implicates polyphenols in cancer? I could not
find any in-vivo studies linking polyphenols to cancer in a quick search. A
review article from 2017 states the opposite in fact:

"...polyphenols in particular have gained considerable attention as
chemopreventive agents against different types of cancer."

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28807562](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28807562)

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booleandilemma
_" When heat from a dryer was applied in an air-conditioned room, a vanilla
popsicle that was purchased from a regular shop began melting around the edges
almost instantly," according to the intrepid reporter. "But the Kanazawa Ice
retained its original shape even after five minutes. It also tasted cool."_

Am I the only one that thought of the LOTR scene with Gandalf holding out the
ring to Frodo after putting it in the fire and telling him "it's quite cool"?

