
Building a house for under $5000 - arihelgason
http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm
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pg
When I look at the pictures of this house, I have something like the feeling
you get when you start to drink a glass of water and suddenly realize you were
really dehydrated.

I often feel it when I see handmade things. There's something missing in
manufactured stuff. It's information poor.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
I agree, and while I think part of it is the organic nature of the subject, I
also think some of that feeling comes from that fantastic quality of the
photography. It just looks like a fairytale.

~~~
TomOfTTB
I think you make an important point. It looks great but obviously the guy who
built it had an eye for visual design and put a lot of effort into finding the
exact right location. Duplicating his setup would be next to impossible.

Conceptually though you could take any old patch of land and build a log cabin
with the same functionality and general feel of nature (first one that came up
on google: <http://www.lincolnlogs.com/askabe.html>)

~~~
KWD
When looking at the design I immediately thought of a Yurt. I guess primarily
due to the roof structure. In this case, he just built it into the ground.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurt>

There are actually several companies building modern yurts. It's one of those
fleeting thoughts of escapism I often have that is about buying some land and
putting a yurt on it.

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noonespecial
Check out the planning and zoning page:

<http://www.simondale.net/house/planning.htm>

That's insane (in the cool sense). It seems like you can basically build the
house and if no one complains, no one will ever bother you. if someone does
complain, you file for the permit as a "Retrospective Application", and it may
still be approved.

I live just outside of DC and did most of the building on our house. Every
time I stuck a shovel in the ground there was some (often extremely clueless)
"official" tittering over my shoulder about what fees and approvals I had to
have in advance of applying for any permissions I might need to secure the
professional opinion of some registered somethin-or-other that might pertain
to something I might think of building. Its a severe understatement to say
that this sort of thing is comically impossible where I live.

Something tells me that policies more like these would go a very long way
toward encouraging greener housing in this country.

~~~
patio11
_Something tells me that policies more like these would go a very long way
toward encouraging greener housing in this country_

Yes, but that would also result in people being able to build houses for
$5,000 (plus one man-year of inexpert labor, granted), and there are a lot of
people who would be discomfited by that, so I don't expect those policies to
go anywhere.

Yeah yeah, I know, I know, it has everything to do with public safety and
nothing to do with the fact that everything touching housing, from designing
to building to selling, is controlled by guilds. (Guilds which could be
replaced pretty much wholesale by recent immigrants or other dirt-cheap non-
expert labor. After all, if a non-expert can snap together freaking Bag End in
the English countryside, how much guild-approved expertise do you really
need?)

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netsp
I wish people could enjoy and appreciate a house like this or a self
sufficient hobby farm, or a "down-shifting" lifestyle without it being part of
some greater anti-industrial ideology.

Why does eating locally need to be justified in terms of food miles or global
warming?

Why does the author here who has obviously taken on a very enjoyable &
fulfilling project creating something beautiful, need to take a poke at
manufactured housing as some sort of evil (which makes housing more affordable
for other people). Why can't it just be that he doesn't like manufactured
housing.

~~~
enneff
You ask an odd question, paraphrased: "Why can't he be some of the things he
is, while not being others?" Part of the reason he's done it is because he has
these views. You can't ask him to separate them out. And I can understand it,
because I share some of his views. If anything, it's admirable that he's
walking the walk as well as talking the talk.

Some people _do_ enjoy living 'off the grid' (so to speak) and aren't as
radical as this guy. They just less likely to set up web sites about what
they've done, as they've no motivation to promote their message (if they even
have one).

~~~
netsp
I'd prefer to stay away of calling him radical. Both building & living in that
house seems pleasant to me and to many of the commentators here.

As I suppose is implied above, I challenge the notion that in this case (and
many others), ideas about ecologically sustainability really do logically
imply that people should build their own houses, live off the grid, eat
locally grown foods, make their own yoghurt etc.

I think That the case is mixed (at best). I think that this is all besides the
point anyway. I think that many people enjoy building their own houses, live
off the grid, eat locally grown foods & make their own yoghurt. However, they
seem to want these things to be moral imperatives, not just preferences.

Superficially, it's similar to people that like to photograph unusual doors or
meet descendants of historical characters. It gives them a framework to travel
& meet people. I have no issues with that.

But this case is problematic because it's political. it implies there are
benefits to this far beyond the personal enjoyment of the individual.

I think the house is beautiful. I appreciate that he is an ethical consumer
with regards to his chosen building materials. But I reject the case that
manufactured housing is bad.

~~~
dkokelley
_However, they seem to want these things to be moral imperatives, not just
preferences._

I think that sentence summarizes well the point you want to make. I'm sure
there are people who do have a preference to live this way without any eco-
political agendas. I think I might be one of them. The thought of being able
to live independently from society (in terms of sustainability and self-
sufficiency) is intriguing to me, just because it means that I am relatively
protected from external forces which I have little control over.

~~~
pingswept
What's the difference between a moral imperative and an extremely strong
preference, I wonder? For example, I like peanut butter a lot, and I think
torture is wrong, regardless of the circumstances. The first is a preference;
the second is a moral imperative. If asked to defend either proposition, I can
say only, "I am convinced that this is true."

There are, of course, lots of arguments for or against torture or peanut
butter, but they aren't moral propositions. For peanut butter, they might be
about health; for torture, they might be about what's legal, or what works to
stop terrorism.

One difference I notice is that preferences extend just to myself, while moral
claims extend beyond me, i.e. I think it's fine if you don't like peanut
butter, but what I think is moral I think applies to everyone (modulo my
uncertainty about it).

Perhaps that gets at what irks some people about the article-- the builder's
implying not just that his way is good, but that your way is bad. (In this
case, he makes his case in a pleasant enough tone, but I think it's fair to
say that he condemns the modern system of housing and land management.)

~~~
netsp
That's an interesting line of thought. I also share the opinion that
preference, aesthetic or otherwise, is intimately related to ethics.

 _"There are, of course, lots of arguments for or against torture or peanut
butter, but they aren't moral propositions. For peanut butter, they might be
about health; for torture, they might be about what's legal, or what works to
stop terrorism."_

That's quite an assertion. It borders on Nihilism. You imply that there is no
different between preference & what we see as morals.

I don't think you're free and clear though. There are all sorts of ways to
draw a distinction between the two. From a utilitarian perspective, you could
argue that torturing causes pain & is therefore bad. From a rights/liberty
perspective, you could argue that it violates some ones rights or liberties.
Form the Kantian/Deontological or many other perspectives, you'd see that you
would not want torture to be widespread or that it is inherently wrong.

Basically, almost to the extent that morality can be said to exist, torture
can be said to be wrong. Peanut butter eating can be said to be right. Hobbit
houses are quite clearly in the peanut butter category.

In a more practical sense, you just answer the question about whether you
should coerce or encourage others to eat peanut butter, stop torturing or
build hobbit houses for any reason other then that they will enjoy it.

------
showerst
I think it's pretty cool that he had a go at this, but how does he know that
it's actually structurally sound?

I'm not sure how things are in Wales, but here in Missouri, you have to be
concerned about things like high winds, earthquakes, etc, not to mention how
your house fares if a fire starts. I'm guessing hay bale insulation isn't too
fire retardant.

Most houses around here are built to stock plans, and the loads on the
floors/roof have been calculated by a professional. I'd be a bit weary of
hanging out in that place in storm. (Note: I know nothing of likelihood of
thunderstorms in Wales. People built houses like this for hundreds of years in
England so it's not _that_ harebrained).

It would make one heck of shed/club house though!

~~~
dylanz
One of my friends built a large community of affordable straw-bale housing in
Afghanistan. The officials thought it was a joke, so came over and shot their
machine guns into one of the buildings. The bullets didn't penetrate the
walls, so they were impressed and gave them the thumbs up to go ahead.

~~~
kirubakaran
Obviously the building passed ISO-AK47 standard.

------
dxjones
I think the $5000 for supplies underplays the enormous investment required to
build this home.

1500 hours @ 30/hrs manual labour per week (could you do more?) works out to
50 weeks ... one solid man year of construction

Next question: What is required for ongoing maintenance and repair?

By the way, as an alternative, if you devoted one full year's salary, could
you buy a better home?

~~~
ijuhytgjh
Or another way of looking at it - he saved 50weeks of $100/week gym membership
and 50 weeks of activity holidays in rural wales.

~~~
sp332
$100/wk gym membership? Are you an Olympic athlete or something?

~~~
dangoldin
New York City gyms can cost that much, sadly.

------
antidaily
Love the idea of living off the grid. But things like using a "Compost toilet"
scare me.

~~~
dylanz
If done right, it's the same as a normal toilet, but substitute the "flush"
for scooping some sawdust down the hole. I've used quite a few, and if you do
it right, you can't smell a thing.

~~~
electromagnetic
I have a lot of experience with the unconventional animals, many of which have
much more potent odors than human waste and sawdust does great. Cedar has
great absorbency for liquid and odors, it also helps significantly that cedar
generally has a really nice smell to it.

I've even composted the waste before and it doesn't change the odor given off
by the heap. If you still frequently cut your grass, you're going to be
smelling composting plant matter far more than the human element.

Personally, if I had the land available, I wouldn't have a problem with a
composting toilet on my property. However, I'd probably stick with a low-water
toilet for inside the house.

------
christofd
Well, why spend 250.000 on a home built out of wood framing and drywall? You
can build it yourself with lumber from Home Depot and some specs. Plumbing and
electrical aren't that hard to figure out. And making walls with drywall and
insulation isn't that hard either.

If you take a summer off work, you could probably build a decent house on your
own for around 20.000 bucks. And that includes one foot apart floor joists
(not the 16 inches common today) for stability. You first of course need the
lot and somebody to come by to pour the foundation right.

My two cents. However, I can't currently take a summer off.

~~~
stcredzero
<http://www.shelter-kit.com/kits.php?kit=lofthouse>

A complete house-kit with outer shell, siding, roofing materials, doors,
windows and all fasteners. Can be erected by 2 unskilled people in 2 weeks.

Starts at $17,185

I do not work for Shelter-Kit. I would like to build one in Austin, though.

~~~
christofd
Thanks for the link. Very interesting. We need more ideas on how to break
through this vicious cycle of paying that much for real estate.

Look at the Amish - when an Amish couple marries, or needs an extension on a
barn, the whole community gets together and builds a structure within days:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barn_raising>

~~~
absconditus
A family estate with a few acres and a few homes that would eventually be paid
off could be one solution.

~~~
stcredzero
I played music at a wedding for a family that's doing this in rural Louisiana,
where land is cheap. (It's the 3rd world.)

They have a barn out back and a pool of 3 1980's Mercedes 240 Diesels, and
they do all the work themselves. The house started as a 120 year old wood-
sided cabin, and they built additions to it to make it much larger. (The
additions look like they're part of the original, though!)

The wedding was a dance. No wedding cake, just 500 of the most delicious
cupcakes, baked by the bride, her mom, and the rest of the family. Party
favors were home made jam. Lots of food that was grown by them.

It was "Consume the Minimum, Produce the Maximum" all around. Replace money
with knowledge, attention, and time.

------
KWD
I came across a place in Taos NM by accident several years ago called the
Earthship. It does get you thinking about what could be possible if some of
these ideas made it into mainstream housing.

<http://www.earthship.net/index.php>

------
wenbert
I love this.

I live near the equator so the walls and the flooring would have to do away if
this was built from where I am at. It would be to hot to live in if this was
built in Philippines -- it would have to be built above ground and made of
bamboo.

------
Goladus
I am curious to know how well this house keeps out rodents and insects.

------
dylanz
Permaculture FTW

