
Trump considers H-1B visa tweak that may lead to mass deportation of Indians - sharjeelsayed
https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/topstories/h-1b-visa-rules-trump-admin-considers-tweak-that-may-lead-to-mass-deportation-of-indians/ar-BBHLSfe?li=AAaeRVN&ocid=spartandhp
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mankash666
This is absurd. People on H1-B pay taxes like Americans - i.e Social security,
Medicare, State, federal, sales, property...

They're, however, not eligible for ANY of the social safety net they subsidize
America for, (no social security, unemployment, Medicare, etc). They're
overwhelmingly peaceful, law abiding residents with higher education, most
earning in the top 5%.

Abuse of the system is not by the recipients, but the companies enabling the
abuse - punish the companies, not the innocent, tax paying, peaceful, law
abiding residents who don't wake up every morning saying "Today, I want to
replace an American job and suppress some wages, dream FUCKING LIFE".

If this law does pass, I believe those being asked to leave should sue the US
for repayment of Social security and Medicare taxes paid - after all they're
non resident aliens and should be taxed as such. Ludicrous restrictions like
not being allowed open their own businesses, killing any chance of monetizing
a side hustle is another opportunity cost that the govt. cannot compensate for
- and it may even be illegal, after all bringing an idea to life is free
speech!

Most of all, if this is squarely an anti-India policy, India should return the
favor in kind and add tariffs to American businesses & individuals benefiting
from trading with India. A page from Trump's own playbook is the only answer
that'll get through to him.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If this law does pass, I believe those being asked to leave should sue the
> US for repayment of Social security and Medicare taxes paid

Uh, they’ll lose, but I guess some lawyers will make some money.

> after all they're non resident aliens and should be taxed as such.

They are taxed exactly like other non-immigrant aliens permitted to work in
the US.

~~~
mankash666
"They are taxed exactly like other non-immigrant aliens permitted to work in
the US." \--> incorrect. Look up 1040-NR. As a non-resident alien, you're not
required to pay social security and medicare. So, H1-B is basically the
taxation of a resident, BUT rights of a non-resident [no access to social
safety net, or voice in political system by means of voting]. I'm all for
uniform policies, tax non-residents as non-residents!

~~~
dragonwriter
> Look up 1040-NR

1040-NR is an income tax form, and has basically nothing to do with Social
Security and Medicare taxes, which are payroll taxes rather than income tax.
They do show up onninckme tax forms when paid as self-employment (including
the 1040-NR, where presumably they would not appear if they did not apply to
nonresident aliens.)

> As a non-resident alien, you're not required to pay social security and
> medicare.

Incorrect, from the IRS: “Wages paid to nonresident aliens employed within the
United States by an American or foreign employer, in general, are subject to
Social Security/Medicare taxes for services performed by them within the
United States” [1]

[1] from [https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-
taxpayers/alie...](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-
taxpayers/aliens-employed-in-the-us-social-security-taxes) which also provides
details of the exceptions that apply to certain work in certain non-immigrant
visa categories.

~~~
mankash666
From your own citation, "F-visas, J-visas, M-visas, Q-visas" are exempt
because the classification of these holders is "non-resident aliens". H1-B is
a temporary work visa and should be classified like the others exempt from
paying these taxes. It's a FUCKING double edged sword where the U.S. govt
eviscerates foreign workers of taxes designed for U.S. citizens with NONE of
the benefits of citizenship. Just fucking be uniform.

If you're going to exploit foreigners, at least tax them accordingly. Or,
offer these skilled immigrants a reasonable path to residency, and tax them
like citizens.

------
MollyR
I'm not a fan of the h1b program, after what happened in Disney.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-
layoff...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-
disney-train-foreign-replacements.html)

It really soured me on the whole program.

If employers stop using it to undercut and fire american workers while
claiming there aren't enough american workers to fill the jobs. I'd feel
different.

edit:fixed link

~~~
yakitori
I'm a bit biased since I'm an american software developer, but how is the h1b
program any good for americans?

If the government/companies' complaint is that we don't have enough home grown
talent, then what incentive is there for government/companies to invest in
americans? Why not get rid of the h1b program so that the government and
american companies are forced to train/invest in americans and american
children?

It's absurd to claim that a nation of 350 million people can't produce enough
"homegrown talent".

H1B visa just seems like a program that wealthy companies can used to exploit
cheap foreign workers and screw over american workers.

And from the other angle, if these h1b workers are so valuable, isn't it wrong
to take them from a third world nation like india? Should we let them have
their tech workers to develop the indian industry/economy?

It seems like an evil and exploitive institution from every angle and yet,
both political parties seem to love it.

~~~
brad0
The program exists so that America can stay on top. The best 5% of programmers
in the world work here because it’s the best pay and the best problems.

You know how FAANG are the only companies actually doing really well on the
stock market these days? It’s because some of the most talented people in the
world work for them. Not just the best Americans. The best people in the
world.

We (as in non Americans) chose to move here. We didn’t get “taken”. We know
what’s best for ourselves as individuals. There is no way that I could have
any effect on the way my home country is run by writing software for some
company and getting paid shit.

America’s roots is in immigration. That’s part of what makes it so powerful.

EDIT:

From what I understand H1B workers have to be paid at least equal to what a
non visa employee gets. So it’s not cheap labor by any measure.

~~~
gonational
OT: hey brad0, I read your story at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501)
finally… just happened to stumble across it when looking through my old
comments. Thanks for sharing that; it was very interesting.

------
whack
It's worth clarifying a few details here since most people aren't aware of
them.

\- this move is going to deport people with approved green-card applications
(i140), the standards for which are _much_ more stringent than the standards
for the h1b program

\- this move affects _only_ Indian citizens and no one else. Not China, not
Mexico, not Pakistan, only India.

\- The reason why Indian citizens are being affected by this, and the reason
why they have to wait so long to receive their green cards, is unrelated to
their individual credentials. An equally qualified Mexican/Pakistani candidate
will receive their green card within 2-3 years. An equally qualified Chinese
candidate will receive their green card within 6 years. Indian candidates
alone face a wait of 8-9+ years, which is a great kick in the teeth by itself,
but this rule will now also deport them.

I'm all for H1B reform. I'm all for making the standards more stringent, or
raising the minimum-salary thresholds. I'm all for vetting prospective
immigrants, and choosing only the best and brightest. But this new _tweak_
does none of those things. It's going to deport tens of thousands of Indians,
only Indians, and purely on account of them being Indian. What we're seeing is
essentially a 21st century repeat of the Chinese-Exclusion-Act.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)

------
gopalv
This is not going to be fun for the real estate market - the biggest risk in
buying a house is your visa renewal if you're heading into a lottery every six
years. Double the risk if both spouses are on H1-Bs & you need a double income
to meet mortgage.

Removing the H4 EAD and forcing H1B lottery on existing tax payers sound like
the opposite of Obama's "pen & phone" policy making.

California will take a huge tax hit, which will probably force it to increase
SALT (though I hope they take the SALT and rewrite it as a payroll tax
directly so that the corporations can pay it directly to the state, skipping
individual income & becoming deductible again).

The only mitigating factor to this is if they go in with HR 392 (has more
sponsors than the votes needed) and make it apply retroactively.

There were a large number of Indians who were pro-trump[1] during the
election, but I'm not sure if their support actually meant anything or not.

[1] - [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-
elections-2016/Hopes-...](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-
elections-2016/Hopes-of-faster-green-cards-anti-terror-rhetoric-make-desis-
gravitate-to-Donald-Trump/articleshow/54909237.cms)

~~~
hkmurakami
That article says only 7% of Indians in America voted for trump. Also the ones
who were voting for him were affluent. Which means that they likely have
permanent resident status, or very strong visa status, and/or legitimately
very strong educational and work credentials like a MD from India and
completed residency in the US, or a degree from IIT and an advanced degree in
the US.

~~~
zettadam
Ahem, green card holders and individuals with a "strong visa status" cannot
vote. What are you talking about?

~~~
fred_is_fred
Clearly you've not heard of the H1STRONG visa.

------
detaro
previously:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041795](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041795)
(101 comments)

------
mywittyname
This is going to hit tech companies hard.

Maybe this will help us work out the issues with H1-Bs and give people a
faster means of obtaining citizenship. It's a win-win, as these people get
stay in the US, and Trump can claim companies are now "hiring American."

------
LifeofPi314
Such a Dumbass move if implemented

