
Mafia becomes "Italy's largest bank" in aftermath of financial crisis - cs702
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/10/us-italy-mafia-idUSTRE8091YX20120110
======
koevet
This is one of the greatest hypocrisies the European Union is committing. The
EU (Germany and France) are putting the Italian government under a lot of
pressure to stabilize the economy but no one ever (including the new Italian
PM) mentions the plague of criminal organizations running the show in Italy.

Even if Italy manages to get out of the current economical turmoil, there will
always be half of the country (some say the whole country) literally in the
hands of criminal organizations with huge power and virtually unlimited funds.

How can the new PM (Monti) dare to talk about "development" where the moment
you open a shop or a business you will be forced to pay a "premium" to some
thug. Banks in Italy have been historically very cautious about lending money
to businesses and the result is that business-owners have to use the "other
bank" to survive a bit longer. And again, nothing has been done to facilitate
access to line of credits for businesses. The only thing that has increased is
taxation (a business in Italy now pays over 50% in taxes).

If the cancer of Mafia is not eradicated once for all, Italy will never become
a modern country.

~~~
antidaily
Literally? They must have impossibly large hands.

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viandante
Come on... Camorra, 'Ndrangheta and Mafia are not the same thing. Neither
every one that borrows money at too high interest comes from Mafia. There is
not such thing as a huge, bank, single, Mafia organization in Italy.

And in this article there are not even comparison of this crime (extortionate
lending) in Italy with other countries.

~~~
roel_v
"And in this article there are not even comparison of this crime (extortionate
lending) in Italy with other countries."

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you're insinuating that it happens
across Europe, then that's not true. The "extortionate lending market' so to
say (of the extra-legal kind) is very, very small (to the point of non-
existent) in Western European countries, whereas (according to this article
and some others I've read) it's a sizable portion of Italy's GDP. That's an
unacceptable situation.

~~~
gioele
> "And in this article there are not even comparison of this crime
> (extortionate lending) in Italy with other countries."

> I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you're insinuating that it
> happens across Europe, then that's not true.

Italian-based organized crime does its business everywhere in Europe with
success.

The only difference is that in Italy this dirty business is not hidden at all
because criminals also run "consumer branches", while in the rest of EU they
hide themselves behind commercial banks or companies.

Take for example waste management and disposal. Most of EU and international
waste goes through the hand of organised crime [1] that offer lower prices and
more efficient services to municipalities and states. This always happens
through proxy companies with crystal-clear records.

Germany thought it was free of organised crime. Then the Duisburg killing
happened [2] and they opened their eyes.

[1]
[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=83BVyffqnJEC&pg=PA117...](http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=83BVyffqnJEC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=european+waste++mafia&source=bl&ots=_ojxOM3aTs&sig=bVpwsNzIYOSQRWF1-LbEolobuQQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZwNT_3HPMT5sgaxw73CBA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=european%20waste%20%20mafia&f=false)
[2] <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafiamorde_von_Duisburg>

~~~
SilasX
Isn't their "higher efficiency" of waste disposal due to the fact they just
dump it into the ocean rather than doing it properly?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste_dumping_by_th...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste_dumping_by_the_Ndrangheta)

The link also mentions the possibility that this is what pissed off Somalis
and spurred the takeoff of piracy. (Not trying to justify it, please flame me
for the right reason.)

~~~
gioele
> Isn't their "higher efficiency" of waste disposal due to the fact they just
> dump it into the ocean rather than doing it properly?

That is the "lower prices" part. The higher efficiency is due to the fact that
the other legally-run companies are often hindered in their daily tasks by
these organisations. In the last few years Italy has seen: fake strikes
organised by bribed union leaders, waste treatment plants accidentally burned,
key managers being forced to resign over "personal matters"…

You do not need to be that more efficient if you can make the others much less
efficient.

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cs702
FWIW, the Mafia in the US became a more institutional, more professional
organization with the formation of "The Commission" in 1931 -- i.e., during
the Great Depression:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commission_%28mafia%29>

The New York Times calls 1931 the "birth of the American Mafia:"
<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/opinion/23raab.html>

I wonder if prolonged economic downturns are somehow correlated with, or maybe
even lead to, the rise of more powerful, more professional crime
organizations...?

~~~
technoslut
The US Italian mafia has been effectively been neutered since Gotti. Most of
the modern powerful people got busted by RICO. In the US today, the most
powerful are the Italians, Russians and the Mexican 'mafias'. The most
influential may be from Mexico because the wars have spilled over across the
border and they are the largest supplier of marijuana.

The truth is, at least with the Italian mafia, that the greatest success of
the Italian mafia occurred during WWII. The CIA depended on them to provide
them with information regarding Italy because Mussolini worked against mafia
interests and Allies. It wasn't until the Kennedys took office that they
heavily went after the mafia.

During wars it is known, at least in the US at that time and probably today,
that it creates a healthy economy.

The reason why you see the economic downturns of today is because most
Congressmen pass laws with loopholes. There was a time when a CEO didn't live
in a lavish mansion over his employees. They managed their selfishness better
back then. Today, most live in secluded areas so they don't have to deal with
that harsh reality.

------
technoslut
From the article, the only thing I noted from it was that the mafia was late
to the game. These predatory lending practices is what led to the financial
crisis and that companies, corporations and governments were more efficient at
being gangsters.

~~~
sunchild
This is such an important point: there is no difference between "too big to
fail" and "an offer you can't refuse". It's protection racketeering in a five
thousand dollar suit.

"Nice economy you have here. It would be a shame if anything happened to it."

~~~
chrischen
Mafia uses violence. That's different.

~~~
coenhyde
So do governments ...

~~~
chrischen
Sure. Governments like North Korea or China's is similar to the mafia.

But 1st world developed democracies are not.

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davidw
This is the sort of sensationalistic stuff that happens when HN veers "off-
topic".

If you want to look at the Mafia as one big organization, then in the same
light, Italy's largest, and legitimate, lender is of course "The Family".

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msluyter
Another example of the remarkable prescience of Neal Stephenson's _Snow
Crash_.

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JJMalina
If you are unfamiliar with the Camorra I recommend this film:
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0929425/>

Or, read Roberto Saviano's book.

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zerostar07
I guess it's time to invest in Mafia?

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andreadallera
Credit crunch is going to make an already terrible situation worse. The
biggest problem is that every kind of "external" help (like, for example, EU
lending money to italian banks at a low interest rate) is only going to help
Mafia because they're deelpy entangled inside the italian government and
banking system. The only viable strategy would be for EU to lend money
directly to small businesses... but that's not going to happen.

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pgisadickyup
Despite the fact that I will end up auto-dead for saying so, there is no
difference between a government and an "organized crime" ring.

~~~
jiggy2011
Assuming a government is democratic , not corrupt (or a close approximation
of) and government by law a government has limits to where it can apply
violence and must follow some due process that is deemed to be fair by a
majority of democratically elected members. For that process to be changed
said members must vote on changes and these must be published. This means that
in theory rules should be made that are reasonable to the majority of the
population, they might not be able to vote on all laws but if a representative
votes for too many laws that are unfavorable he will be unelected.

The mafia works on the basis of fear since they will play by their own rule
book that is likely decided upon in secret and not applied consistently. All
rules will be made in favour of the rule makers themselves.

Imagine for a moment that we let private corporations hire goons with sticks
and imagine that when you miss a payment instead of a polite but firm letter
you came face to face with one of these goons at your doorstep and they have
paid off the police to take no notice of what they do.

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krumiro
Ohhh really?

