
Why Thieves Steal Soap - pmcpinto
http://priceonomics.com/why-thieves-steal-soap/
======
dsl
The Safeway in the San Francisco Castro neighborhood is especially...
exciting... relative to the surrounding area. It even has its own full time
police officer.

One time as I was leaving I asked the officer why Folgers crystals of all
things were locked up. His reply was "[ethnic group] gangs steal essentials in
bulk, and sell them to the homeless."

From that point forward it clicked in my head, retail theft is about liquidity
not value.

~~~
randyrand
> [ethnic group]

interesting way to combat racism...

~~~
gozur88
Is that combating racism, or is it combating information? Is there such a
thing as a racist fact?

~~~
wyattpeak
There may be no such thing as a racist fact, but there's definitely such a
thing as racist dissemination of a fact.

If, for example, you post a list of facts about crime rates among a particular
ethnic group apropos of nothing, it's probably racist, regardless of whether
or not the facts are true.

That said, in this case I think it's just the bad taste that one often gets in
their mouth knowing that a racist might read a comment you make and have it
confirm their prejudices.

As for how it's combating information: is there meaningful information lost
here? He could have told you what colour his pants were, too, but it wouldn't
add a whole hell of a lot to the story.

~~~
randyrand
> is there meaningful information lost here?

IMO, its not so much the loss of information, its the implication that racial
problems should not be considered racial problems.

~~~
wyattpeak
I agree it carries that implication, and I think it's right.

Very little is added to the discussion of curbing gang crime by bringing race
into the picture. What are the specifically Black solutions to gang behaviour?
What are the Hispanic ones?

On the other hand, the culture of racism and intolerance such discussions
engender has real and measurable downsides. Cf. every discussion of police
interactions by minorities.

~~~
randyrand
I completely disagree.

The culture of black Americans is unique. It's different than the culture of
Asians, Hispanics, Whites, ect, and initiatives will effect each culture
differently. That much seems certain to me.

To say that there is a one size fits all solution to gang violence is to
ignore important cultural differences.

To just look at family structure: 75% of black families are not married and
60% of mothers with multiple children have them to different fathers.

As for how we tackle gangs, I'd need to study to problem longer. But its a
hunch of mine that the above family statistics play a role in their formation.

------
dredmorbius
William Stanley Jevons, _Money and the Mechanism for Exchange_ (1876)
discusses many of the characteristics of money and exchange, including in
chapter V, the properties which make money useful: utility and value,
portability, indestructability, homogeneity, divisibility, stabilityof value,
and cognizability. The merchandise stolen for use as "street coin" as
described in the article meet most or all of these characteristics.

Jevons' work is recommended -- it's a classic study of the subject, but one
which still carries strong weight. Rather more useful than many of the
misdirected rantings of more recent vintage available online.

[https://archive.org/details/moneyexchange00jevorich](https://archive.org/details/moneyexchange00jevorich)

~~~
mitchtbaum
Wow, what an interesting book.

> stability of value

Yes, soap has phenomenal storage value! Depending on its ingredients you can
keep soap bars indefinitely, and they will maintain 100% of their value. If
necessary, you can (re)pack it with food storage tools to ensure it stays dry,
like vacuum-sealed mylar bags in plastic bins, but as I understand it,
soaponified oil won't go rancid even with moderate O2 exposure. For friends
looking to save for their future, I advise putting soap near the top of their
list and making a full space for it among their shelves.

For my needs, I have found this soap works and feels great:
[http://www.kirksnatural.com/products/kirks-fragrance-free-
co...](http://www.kirksnatural.com/products/kirks-fragrance-free-coco-castile-
bar-soap/)

~~~
dredmorbius
I'm finding older econ works rather interesting generally. Not always correct.
Usually insightful. And subject to different biases than our time.

------
tragomaskhalos
If we're talking about shoplifting, I have no experience in this but surely
the penalties for stealing a $2 item are different than for stealing a $200 or
$2,000 item, and indeed a store will be less likely to press a prosecution for
a low-valued item. Thus, particularly if you are a small-time or casual thief,
it is safer to target very cheap goods, even taking into account the fact that
you need to be a lot more prolific to realise the same income.

~~~
SyneRyder
I have no experience either, but from watching a few reality crime TV shows,
there is not much difference in the penalty. Offering to pay for the item
after the fact is not accepted by mall security.

The pain of the penalty (at least in the show I watched) was less about the
crime & any charges, but that the shopping mall was banning them from the mall
for a year. It was a bigger deal to them that they would have to find another
mall and drive further away to buy their groceries to feed their kids.

------
kilroy123
Reminds me of this article I read a few years back, also interesting:
[http://www.businessinsider.com/the-tide-black-
market-2013-1](http://www.businessinsider.com/the-tide-black-market-2013-1)

~~~
maxerickson
The Priconomics article mentions and links the New York Magazine article that
your link is based on.

The NYM article reads an awful lot like a submarine piece for that amazing
technological wonder, Tide, the expensive to produce detergent that gives
anything you wash with it a quality feel.

~~~
eli
Maybe, but in DC a few years ago the CVS near me put Tide (and only Tide)
behind the counter and left other brands on the shelf.

~~~
maxerickson
Yeah, it's probably not fair to speculate about it being a submarine piece,
but it really does meander around and extol the many virtues of Tide.

------
pakled_engineer
These 2 seniors were just busted running a racket selling half priced stolen
toothpaste, detergent, ect [http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-
columbia/elderly-...](http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-
columbia/elderly-couple-arrested-allegedly-buying-stolen-items-drug-addicts-
reselling-1.3532251)

------
elcapitan
Maybe Walgreens or Safeway should simply open a cheap unbranded store down the
road that sells the typical thief goods in a no name version at competitive
street prices, catering to the people who need that stuff but can't afford it
at store price. That would dry up the stolen goods market. Their normal
customers wouldn't buy there anyway, if the store is sufficiently awkward.

~~~
shmageggy
FTA

> Thieves can sell items for around a third of their retail value, according
> to the report, or for roughly half their value if they sell them to second
> hand shops.

I think even with no name brands, they'd still have to sell at a loss to be
competitive with that kind of markdown. Hard to compete when the other guy's
cost is $0.

~~~
clort
Hm

Do you have a reference as to the prices of branded vs no-name items? I don't
have any specific knowledge but I suspect the brand markup is quite
significant.. might be interesting to check that (I don't think there is any
no-name shop around here or I'd go out and have a look at soap for instance)

Also, the other guys cost is not really $0 .. he also has to make the money to
cover his costs, which could be anything from food and rent, or drugs, or
paying off a loanshark or baliff, or greasing the palm of his crime boss. His
costs don't go down, so if his profit is reduced then his exposure goes up as
he needs to steal much more. That means more time spent on the job, and more
chance of getting caught.

~~~
elcapitan
In German supermarkts, no-name vs branded side by side is very typical. I
would say for small household items like soap, the price is often twice for
the branded. So it's quite significant. And that's already branded products
that have to compete directly, so the markup might be even higher in branded-
only environments.

------
millzlane
TL;DR: Soap gets stolen because there is a market for it in the hood. No
matter, if it's a corner store marking up the prices or an addict/door to door
salesman, or people buying it from said addicts. There will always be a market
for cheaper than retail goods.

I have multiple people in my neighborhood in Baltimore that sell stuff like
this (detergents, soaps, deodorants, axe, febreeze, shower gels, razors,
carpet, toothpaste and brushes, loofas, mouthwash). Including their food
stamps. Well, not stamps but now they're debit cards that ironically say
Independence on them.

So around the 1st-3rd of the month people get their stamps. They get enough in
stamps that they can afford to sell some, maybe $200 FSD for $100 USD. Some
folks actually budget and shop at the lower priced store like aldi, or food
depot. So maybe a couple months out of the year they're able to sell sometimes
more than half of the stamps that month. After that cash runs out for whatever
reasons, a small minority, sometimes in groups steal from the local chain
stores so they have quick cash. They're mostly drug addicts doing it for a fix
or two for the day not for a living. But it's a daily thing.

One guy comes around often, sometimes everyday. He's got regulars sometimes he
catches them on off-days and he'll need to come back to secure the sale. But
fair is fair and he holds stuff for people. Most of his customers are the
little old ladies you would imagine that spend hours peering over newspapers
for coupons, or comparing the sales at store A vs store B. An $800 social
security check doesn't go very far after expenses.

Seems like a way of life in the ghetto where I live. My family included, has
always purchased these things from the guys in the neighborhood and still do.
I'm not saying it's morally right. But as long as there is a cheap alternative
to the corner store you will find someone in the hood willing to deal.

------
ttcards
This article is from March 2014. Top date is incorrect.

------
rokhayakebe
Something else I find interesting: people will find stealing despicable yet
have no problem buying stolen goods if it is a good deal.

~~~
dennisgorelik
I find buying stolen goods despicable too.

Stealing itself is worse, of course.

------
krzrak
What a coincidence: yesterday I was doing shopping and it struck me, that on
the package of sausage (kabanos [1], to be precise) of $2 value they put the
same RF stickers as on $200 electronics (while they don't do it on many more
expensive products). I asked a clerk about that and she told me, that thieves
are really keen on this particular type of product, along with shavers and
some cosmetics.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabanos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabanos)

------
0898
"The top of thieves’ mental loot list features expensive electronics like
Playstations, GPS systems, and DVD players."

Playstations maybe, but DVD players?

~~~
alloyed
One way to think of it is that torrenting movies requires an (expensive)
internet connection, where all you need for a DVD player is electricity and
some DVDs someone else ripped.

~~~
icebraining
I think the weirdness is calling them "expensive"; nowadays you can buy a new
one for $25 or so.

------
nickpsecurity
Great writeup. I've seen the same patterns in my locale. It's formula, Tide,
soap, beer, meat, and other things that are pricey but useful for low-income
people. Most of the thieves are low-income without any particular race
dominating the role. They're not the only ones, though, as a number of people
with plenty of money are just as happy to be thieving assholes. ;)

------
SmellyGeekBoy
So they can make a clean getaway?

...I'll get my coat.

------
mchahn
> Tide laundry detergent has widely been reported as a favorite target of drug
> gangs.

The author didn't do his homework. Tide detergent bottles are (were?) a fiat
currency for drug transactions. Weird but true.

------
sjg007
I order from Google express. Sometimes orders go missing and I've noticed that
laundry detergent (liquid) gets siphoned. Google even tapes it.

------
wmeredith
TL;DR: Demand

------
sjg007
Why not give away free coffee?

------
spydertennis
how did you manage to make a whole article out of 'soap is easy to sell
illegaly'

~~~
zodPod
I wish I had this skill. I generally can't make even complex topics more than
a paragraph or so..

~~~
x5n1
I read it all and thoroughly enjoyed it. It could be summed up as thieves like
to steal commodity goods because they are easier to trade. Other than that
they like to steal high demand luxury goods.

~~~
spacehome
It was a bit long winded.

