
I tried to adjust the time on my alarm clock - niccl
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20191104-01/?p=103052
======
eps
For some reason, an operating system that I paid money for and installed on my
very personal computer that I also bought for my own buckazoids insists that I
create an online account to be able to log in locally.

I'm going to repeat that: in order to use my super-duper computer I had to
_create an account_ with Microsoft.

How ridiculous is that?

* Yes, I know I could've faked the machine being offline, then clicked through some gray-on-gray links in 3px font and I'd be granted a reprieve. But, please, as much as I like reading about Windows quirks on Raymond's blog, he is not exactly in position to complain about a device needing an online account to operate.

~~~
rosybox
It's not ridiculous. It makes complete sense that in 2019 Microsoft would want
its customers to have Microsoft accounts that you log into with to run the
operating system on your hardware. Nearly everyone has internet connections,
and Microsoft surely seems to think enough of its customers do.

Apple's mobile devices run an operating system that has this same requirement
with the same bypass. MacOS also prompts for a password during set up. Android
phones prompt for a Google account on set up.

~~~
xg15
How is this justified except in the "everyone does it" sense?

~~~
kevingadd
The OP isn't justifying the policy (you can decide whether it's justified),
merely explaining one reason why a vendor would want to do it. Then providing
examples of other vendors doing it.

~~~
thaumasiotes
The OP is attempting to justify the policy when they say "it's not
ridiculous". Obviously, it is ridiculous.

------
iamaelephant
As much as I love Raymond I have completely run out of time for people who buy
unnecessary "smart" devices then complain about them. 6 years ago I would
understand, but by now we all know this stuff is junk. Yes, all of it.

~~~
city41
We recently got a new fridge and my friends and family were all amazed I
didn't choose a "smart" fridge. "But you're in tech, why wouldn't you want a
high tech fridge?", "Because I'm in tech."

~~~
matwood
Agreed. My washer and dryer are close to 20 years old. They each have a few
buttons, and the 'computers' are mostly mechanical (think egg timer). I'm
dreading when they break because anytime I have looked for simple, basic
models like I have they no longer seem to exist.

~~~
cheschire
My dryer uses a heat pump similar to refrigeration technology which allows it
to dry clothes at a lower energy usage level because it's more efficient than
heated air. It's also a condensing dryer so it doesn't spray hot wet lint air
out of the side of my house, and has a drain tube I can run straight into my
drain pipe next to my washer so I don't have to dump out the water collector
every few loads.

While I'm generally a fan of simple appliances in concept, there are several
significant changes that have occurred in the last 20 years you might want to
just peruse.

As an aside, my dryer has wifi, but I only ever use that feature just to alert
me on my phone that the loads are complete. I've never gotten that shitty
software to actually start a load successfully. Not even upset about it, I
didn't buy it for the wifi.

The internet of things is useless but don't let that hold you back from
finding some really efficient modern technology.

~~~
rootusrootus
Condenser dryers are pretty slow, however, so I'm not sure it's a good
solution for average people. They're nice when you don't have good
infrastructure in place for a vented model, though.

~~~
cheschire
Trading convenience for environment isn't a good solution for average people?
Then we're fucked.

~~~
xboxnolifes
Thinking that trading convenience for environment is going to work is why we
aren't seeing change.

~~~
Symbiote
In the European Union the most inefficient devices are simply banned. (In some
cases, I don't keep up-to-date with consumer appliances.)

For tumble driers, scroll to the annex of [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-
content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-
content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32012R0932)

"From 1 November 2015:

— for condenser household tumble driers the energy efficiency index (EEI)
shall be less than 76,

— for condenser household tumble driers, the weighted condensation efficiency
shall be not lower than 70 %."

(And then a definition of what that means.)

------
Johnny555
Who would buy an alarm clock that needs an app to set it? As soon as I saw
that I needed to install an app (and create an account!?) just to set my alarm
clock, I've have sent it back.

Though I guess I do have an alarm clock that needs an app to set it since my
only alarm clock is my phone. But if I bought a standalone alarm clock, I'd
want it to be really stand-alone, not dependent on my phone.

~~~
mavhc
Because setting alarms on normal clocks is really annoying. Or setting the
time in the first place.

I assume the clock has wifi to set the time via ntp already, so adding an app
was easy, in the eyes of the hardware division, who never think about the
complexity of software, or the cost of it.

~~~
Marsymars
> Because setting alarms on normal clocks is really annoying. Or setting the
> time in the first place.

Maybe on digital clocks, but on analog clocks you just spin the knob to the
correct time. Not annoying at all.

I have this nice clock on my bedside table:
[https://www.marathonwatch.com/collections/clocks/products/an...](https://www.marathonwatch.com/collections/clocks/products/analog-
desk-alarm-clock-with-auto-night-light) This one is also good:
[https://www.lemnos.jp/en/archives/1367](https://www.lemnos.jp/en/archives/1367)

~~~
mavhc
Currently I have my phone set to ring 3 alarms on weekdays, and 1 late one at
weekends, would be better if it just read my calendar though.

Only having one kinda inaccurate alarm on an analog clock would be annoying,
also having to change the time twice a year, and correct for errors.

~~~
Marsymars
I find it less annoying than using a phone for alarms, even not counting the
fact that it doesn't have a phone as a pre-requisite.

------
kempbellt
What is the value add for a wifi-enabled alarm clock? Truly, what do you get
from _supposedly_ being able to program it from your phone? You have to
download yet another proprietary app, go through a tedious syncing process to
connect with the device, learn another GUI (unusable in this case), and cross
your fingers, hoping that it works.

Is clicking a couple physical buttons on an actual device such a strain?

If you're frequently setting multiple alarms, as many people do on their
phones for various reasons, does it benefit you to use this rather than just
using your phone?

~~~
outworlder
For a non braindead implementation? You can run NTP and never adjust anything.

~~~
shaftway
If only we had some kind of National Institute of Standards and Technology
that broadcast the time and daylight savings flags in a machine readable
format.

~~~
scintill76
If only it were possible to receive such a broadcast without needing wifi.

~~~
kempbellt
GPS clocks do just this - [https://timetoolsltd.com/gps/what-is-the-gps-
clock/](https://timetoolsltd.com/gps/what-is-the-gps-clock/)

~~~
felipelemos
GPS clocks works inside a bedroom without a clear view of the sky?

~~~
icebraining
My GPS receiver works just fine inside, even with the window blinders closed.
I suppose it might not in a windowless room.

------
noblethrasher
I've complained about this before [1], but I once bought a $70 (USD) Microsoft
Arc Mouse that required you to both register an MS account and download an app
just to be able to turn off the obnoxious synthetic clicking sound that was
enabled by default.

I made a second trip to the store that day just to return the the thing.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11390494](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11390494)

------
paol
A fitting entry for
[https://twitter.com/internetofshit](https://twitter.com/internetofshit)

------
matt_the_bass
I make wordclocks as a side project[0]. Mine connect to the internet via wifi
to update the time. The user only needs to set the time zone offset since
there is no location lookup.

The clock has no app and doesn’t require an account. At start up, is has a
softAP that you connect to with your phone so that you can give it your wifi
credentials via a simple self hosted web server/form.

Why use internet for time? Simple, I couldn’t find a stable RTC on a small,
inexpensive, off the self microcontroller board. But I could find one with
wifi. My early prototypes used an Arduino UNO. That has awful RTC stability
since is doesn’t use a crystal but rather an R/C oscillator for timing.

I don’t think my customers want an extra app if there really is no reason. Why
not use a built in web server?

[0] [http://www.finewordclocks.com](http://www.finewordclocks.com)

------
eledumb
I just bought a new refrigerator and it comes with an app. I installed the app
out of curiosity, the first thing the app demands is that I allow it to track
the location of my phone at all times.

The app's been deleted.

~~~
NullPrefix
Return the fridge. If you don't return it, you're telling the company you're
okay with this.

------
cabaalis
The account deal is becoming pervasive and annoying. This is a common
interaction I have at a local pet store:

"That'll be $15. What's your phone number?" "No."

... strange look for a moment, finally followed by just taking my $15 and not
knowing who I am or being able to easily track me.

~~~
siphor
i started giving them 303 867-5309. tons of accounts at every store (replace
w/ ur area code).

~~~
JohnFen
I much prefer telling the store "no". That way, they they'll at least get the
occasional reminder that there are customers who hate this sort of thing.

The funny thing is that in many stores that have "loyalty programs", when I
tell them I'm not signed up and am not interested in signing up, they'll just
use a different loyalty card number instead (I assume it's the clerk's, but
I'm not sure).

~~~
perl4ever
You can't assume they will do that everywhere. I was in CVS, and it seems like
rather than discounts for "loyalty" they have jacked up their prices if you
don't have the card. They said they would look me up by my phone number, but
when they didn't find me, that was it, no discount. I said fine and left the
overpriced batteries behind.

I don't know why grocery stores don't seem to care, whether it's corporate
policy, or employee culture.

~~~
JohnFen
> You can't assume they will do that everywhere.

I don't. Personally, I don't care if they do this or not -- it's entirely
irrelevant to me. I was just noting it out of amusement.

In general, I tend to avoid stores that have a loyalty program, because (as
you note) their "loyalty card" prices tend to be the same as the normal prices
at stores that don't.

------
emptybits
A fun and cringeworthy post. Thanks. But why withhold the make and model of
alarm clock?

1\. Maybe others could chime in or assist.

2\. Brands that sell fragile and frustrating garbage like this should be
exposed.

~~~
choward
3\. Increase my confidence that the article is actually real.

I have no way of verifying anything in this article so as far as I'm concerned
it's fake. I need a picture or at least a make and model so I know the alarm
clock in question actually exists.

~~~
BoiledCabbage
And maybe Raymond Chen is completely fine with 'choward' of Hacker News not
believing him.

~~~
cgrealy
Yeah... he's Raymond goddamn Chen. He's not even aware of our existence. :)

~~~
choward
Doesn't ring a bell. Am I supposed to know who he is?

~~~
cgrealy
He's the author of The Old New Thing... he was heavily involved in the
development of Windows and he's generally highly regarded in software
development circles. He's been around for a long time.

------
WalterBright
> The Wi-Fi connectivity is nice when it’s working (like it was during the
> springtime) since it means never having to adjust the time after a power
> outage or time zone change.

I bought one of those "atomic clocks" 20 years ago that pick up the time from
some government radio station. It's always dead on correct, and adjusts
automatically for DST. There is no user interface, put a battery in and hang
it on the wall. Best clock I ever bought.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Ours picks time up from across the border with no way to adjust that

------
codedokode
> For some reason, my alarm clock requires that I install an app on my phone.

It is weird that a person working in IT pretends not to know why the clock
reqiures an app. Of course to vacuum personal information, geolocation and
hardware identifiers of all devices nearby.

------
hyperman1
Going slightly OT here, but I wonder: Is Raymond doing the old new thing for
free or does he get some MS company time for it.

On one hand, he clearly does hardcore technical stuff on the job so he can't
have much time. The blog meanders between hard core windows programming and
human interest stuff. All that says hobby project.

But it runs on microsoft infrastructure, he must put in a lot of time to write
the posts and curate the discussions. The marketing value for microsoft must
be non-trivial. So that says company provided resources.

~~~
freeone3000
If any of us want to write a blog post, we can, and it gets the same support.
His is better than most of ours. :)

------
jacknews
OK I'm going to be the contrarian here.

Now I agree, having to make an account to use your device absolutely sucks,
why on earth would you need that?

And it sounds as though the user experience of connecting to the clock also
sucks.

BUT, if this is done correctly (eg wave nfc phone near your clock, and the
appropriate app fires up and connects automtically etc), then I see this is a
good future. In this clock example, you wouldn't need to 'advance the hour'
for DST - the phone would just set the correct time automatically with a
swipe.

My phone becomes a universal remote. No longer those crappy LCD screens (or
just LED lights), and weird buttons on every applicance that I have to learn
to use. Not to mention they are expensive parts of the device, and take a lot
of development effort.

Also those screens and buttons are always the first to break, and are totally
unrepairable except by ordering a spare from the manufacturer (if they still
make them). Unlike say a broken valve in a washing machine that can often be
repaired or replaced with a commodity equivalent.

So, I'm going to say that using phones as a standard appliance interface is
potentially a huge UI improvement, cost-saver, and reliability/repairability
improvement - if it's done well. Or of course a dystopian nightmare if done
badly.

~~~
comex
Maybe if there were some standard protocol for a device to offer controls to
nearby phones. (Perhaps HTML-based, but it would be nice to have a more
semantic, scriptable layer, perhaps in addition.)

As it is, every device has its own bespoke iOS app and Android app. The apps’
user interfaces usually suck, but you could say the same about the buttons.
More importantly, at least on the iOS side, apps need continual maintenance to
avoid breakage on new devices or OS versions, ranging from quick updates for
new screen sizes to the dreaded 32-to-64-bit transition. But that maintenance
is likely to stop being provided as soon as the manufacturer is focused on
their next thing, turning the device into a ticking time bomb of future
unusability. With an unrepairable device, at least you only run into the
problem if something breaks!

~~~
jacknews
Yes this is exctly what I'd like to see, an appliance protocol of some kind.
People can then write their own apps if they want. Maybe just REST endpoints
-I've seen web servers of sorts crammed into avr chips, so it should be
feasible with all but the most limited devices.

App rot is a problem no doubt but do apps break quicker than the crappy
hardware UI? I'm not so sure. probablty on iOS that's true.

~~~
clarry
I don't remember ever having to replace an appliance due to broken buttons or
screens. Phones, on the other hand...

The only kind of hardware buttons I seem to be able to regularly break are the
microswitches in mice. They used to last forever, and I think I still have an
optical mouse from early 2000s that has perfectly working switches (but
tracking & malfunction speed aren't comparable to any modern mouse). The
switches in modern mice tend to develop problems in a year or two.

------
edgarvaldes
>They say that a broken clock is correct twice a day. This one can’t even
manage that.

It's hilarious, but also sad.

~~~
robocat
It really depends on how it is broken.

I bought a digital clock home from the US, and it synched it time using the
mains frequency, so it was 20% slow, so it would show the right time once
every 0.6 days or so.

There might have been a pin to control 50Hz vs 60Hz but I couldn't find docs.

Instead I bought a 60Hz generator chip, and figured out how to solder it in to
make the clock keep time.

Unfortunately they used the positive and negative parts of the AC cycle to
control the LED display (saving half control lines by using diodes).

So although it kept time, I couldn't read the time on the display.

Note that my time is more valuable, I suspect I will invest many more days
making it work!

------
JohnFen
> For some reason, my alarm clock requires that I install an app on my phone.
> And the app required me to create an account

The larger mystery is why he didn't immediately return the clock as soon as he
discovered this requirement.

~~~
drei109
He mentioned in a comment that the person who bought it didn't know that an
app was needed. So it was maybe a gift from someone else.

~~~
wUabkSG6L5Bfa5
There's going to be a really awkward conversation at his next dinner party.

~~~
kempbellt
"Remember that nifty alarm clock you gave me last year? I finally got around
to trying to set it up and....wow, what a piece of shit. I'm an engineer and I
couldn't even get it working. After wasting an hour trying to set it up, I
just threw it in the closet. Whatever engineer designed that thing probably
doesn't even use it. It was a fun idea, but probably more useful for throwing
at burglars. Thanks again haha"

Any of my friends/family would be laughing along with me, and giving me shit
for not being able to setup "something as simple as an alarm clock".

------
commandlinefan
> I’m thinking maybe of plugging the clock in at exactly midnight.

Good plan, but unfortunately you’d need to be able to set an alarm to know
when it was midnight.

~~~
TeMPOraL
You can travel to another continent, set it there during the day, and bring it
back.

~~~
commandlinefan
No, he has to plug it in where he wants it to run at exactly midnight there,
because he can't change the time, either. You have a problem-solvers mentality
though!

~~~
TeMPOraL
Power banks are a thing. I bet it uses either USB charger or something
trivially hackable to be powered off 5V/2A!

~~~
NullPrefix
Some clocks use switching of AC polarity as a time keeping source.

There was a big event in Europe sometime recently where lots of clocks went
out of sync, because power grid was doing some resyncing and was not constant
60Hz

------
hollander
I have two radio controlled clocks. One checks each night at 2 o'clock with
the radio time, and then sees it is probably 0.1 second ahead. Apparently this
analogue clock can only adjust time forward, so each night it has to do a 12
hour cycle (minus 0.1 second). This means 50% extra battery use. Plus it's
annoying when you're up at that time. All is quiet and then you hear this
strange squeeking sound.

The other clock is digital, so adjusting time is easier, except that it
forgets to do this when changing to and from summertime. The only solution is
to unplug the power cable. Why this clock doesn't know this is a mystery. It
only has to check once a week. I don't know how this radio signal works, but
can't they send info about winter- or summertime along with the time?

~~~
jrockway
The signal does contain a DST flag.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB#Announcement_bits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB#Announcement_bits)

The reality is, at least in the Eastern US, that you probably don't
successfully receive the signal often enough to ever get the DST bit. When I
lived in Chicago, I used WWVB clocks and they worked fine, when I moved to New
York, I never got them to sync. I also have a bunch of chips for receiving the
signal and they have never worked. You have to use the new phase modulated
signal, and nobody sells chips for receiving these. (Naturally the older AM
receivers are a cheap single-chip solution. So would a receiver for the phase-
modulated data, but nobody feels like making one, so you are stuck.)

------
pavel_lishin
I don't know who I'm shaking my head at more: the person who bought this
nightmare of an alarm clock, or the person who sold it.

~~~
vwuon
That's what I was thinking. This guy is one of the most reputable software
developers in the world, bearing the weight of the Windows Shell on his
shoulders, with a career that spans decades... and he bought... an alarm clock
with wifi? Was he drunk that day?

~~~
logfromblammo
I'd be fine with a clock with a wi-fi chip, provided that it have a hardware
firewall that blocks everything but Network Time Protocol, and include a USB
port for business such as updating firmware, updating zoneinfo, or changing IP
addresses.

Also, it might have been a gift from a well-meaning friend or family member.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I'd be fine with a clock that has a wifi chip, provided I didn't need to
install a fucking app on my phone to change the goddamned alarm.

~~~
logfromblammo
Agreed. My phone already has an alarm clock app that sounds an alarm through
the phone speaker. If someone tries to sell me a separate alarm clock hardware
device that requires a smartphone app to accomplish basic functionality that
is already available on the phone itself, I am liable to become very hostile
and recount unflattering anecdotes about the salesperson's mother.

It's a GDMF _clock_. We already have well-established user interface paradigms
for clock-setting that require only two binary input buttons, in devices that
cost less than $0.05 to manufacture.

The use case for a network-connected clock is to never have to set the time
manually, or update it for daylight savings. That is a feature you _add to_ a
clock that is already completely functional without a network. You _can_ add a
wifi password with just two buttons and a 16-segment LCD, if you are patient
enough.

~~~
perl4ever
"You can add a wifi password with just two buttons"

Reminds me that I bought a printer with wifi, which I didn't really want, but
it didn't come with a cable, so then I found out you had to enter passwords by
hitting an up or down button to scroll through all possible characters.

Eventually I found a USB cable that worked with it.

------
nkrisc
Shopping for a radio recently I passed up loads of crap that I believe would
have met the same fate as his clock. Internet enabled shit that will probably
die once an LED goes out.

I ended up getting a nice, solidly built radio with a wood cabinet that has a
volunteer knob, an AM/FM knob, and a tuner knob. No app required.

The one quality of life feature it does have is a little light that lights up
when you've hit a signal on the tuner. This is nice because the exact position
required for a station can drift. I assume this is due to atmospheric effects
and other interference.

~~~
Turing_Machine
For anyone who, like me, was wondering what a "volunteer knob" is, I suspect
it's an autocorrecto for "volume knob".

Took me a second to get it.

~~~
nkrisc
Dang it, I completely missed that and now I can't edit it. Doesn't everyone's
radio have a volunteer knob?

------
gatherhunterer
The Casio A168WA-1 has an alarm, a stopwatch, an optional hourly beep, 12 and
24-hour clocks and a light so you can tell the time even when the sun is down.
It costs less than $20 on Amazon.

It may not be good enough for a tech billionaire but it doesn’t ask any
questions. I may not have an executive position at Microsoft or an alarm clock
that mines my data but I’ve got two dollars and a Casio.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FuZNswuwAxM](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FuZNswuwAxM)

------
_bxg1
A bit cheeky from a company that won't let you use your desktop computer
without an online account

~~~
JohnFen
You can totally use Windows without an online account. I do it.

~~~
jandrese
Not that Microsoft wants you to know that. They make the offline account
button/link smaller and harder to spot regularly. I've thought several times
that they finally removed it only to spot it hiding in a corner in a grey link
one shade darker than the background.

~~~
NullPrefix
They could be treating it internally as unsupported workflow too. Or at least
untested workflow. Kind of like that issue where your CPU would be loaded 100%
when you open start menu if you have cortana disabled.

------
everdrive
You can still find traditional alarm clocks in thrift stores. They're often
$2-$5 and work fine!

------
glitchc
An alarm clock with a wifi chip to phone home your sleep/wakeup times. Maybe
they should pay the OP to buy the clock if data is the real monetary
transaction here.

------
drdec
My alarm clock has the most brilliant feature - a two position slider for
activating and deactivating DST. Took me less than a second to make the change
this weekend.

------
mindingdata
I actually went back to an old school casio watch recently because my Fitbit
refused to connect to my phone. It had the incorrect time on it and you cannot
set the time on the watch itself (Must be via the phone app).

I get that a fitness tracker is kinda worthless without syncing the data up.
But I was happy just seeing my daily steps and being able to tell the time and
I couldn't even do the latter.

------
cabalamat
> For some reason, my alarm clock requires that I install an app on my phone.
> And the app required me to create an account.

That's his problem right there: getting an internet-connected "smart" alarm
clock. Ditto for other internet connected appliances.

------
perl4ever
I have an alarm clock that's probably over a decade old, and I think I had a
similar one 20 or 30 years ago.

The controls are a large "alarm/snooze" button, small "Time", "Hour" and "Min"
buttons, and an on/off "Alarm" slider.

The display is a segmented red LED display, with one round light indicating PM
(just turns off for AM) and one round light on the opposite side indicating
the alarm slider is on.

It runs on AC power, with a 9V battery backup.

Hopefully they won't stop making them, since I don't think there is anything
you could add or take away.

There are not many devices where the logic of the controls is so simple and
standard you could almost design a clone from memory.

------
Someone1234
If his alarm clock is a "HeimVision" (which it sounds like it could be from
the description) holding the brightness for a long time will allow adjustment
of the time. Unfortunately the WiFi light will never stop blinking.

~~~
jasonmp85
Wow just looked up this product and… there is no need for WiFi.

Hell, I just bought an in-wall sunset/sunrise timer to control some grow
lights for my plants in the winter. Works great, literally a simple board and
backup battery in a wall switch.

If you want your room to brighten for wake, I don't know, invest in some
actual home automation? I've got a dimmer on my master cans and it is
_trivial_ to do this sort of thing, except with much larger benefits overall
and a much more robust/supported ecosystem. Sigh…

------
tibbydudeza
An alarm clock that needs WiFi and an app to control ????.

This all reminds me of John Siracusa and his fixation with the perfect toaster
oven .. something tells me he would buy one with WIFI and smartphone app if it
was available.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
If you need a laugh, here's the list of his reviews:

[https://www.cardsagainsthumanity.com/toasters/](https://www.cardsagainsthumanity.com/toasters/)

------
gambiting
"The Wi-Fi connectivity is nice when it’s working (like it was during the
springtime) since it means never having to adjust the time after a power
outage or time zone change."

I mean, isn't that exactly what the time adjustement signal is for? I have
several watches which have this technology and they are precise like crazy - I
don't understand why you'd need wifi for something so simple.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock)

------
suigintoulain
I have a feeling I know exactly what clock he's talking about. Costco sold a
La Crosse wifi projection alarm clock where you can only set the time with the
app, and the app has a hamburger-menu-icon-but-actually-a-handle gesture to
delete whatever device you're having an issue with. Strangely, I'm having the
same issue he did, where the wifi stops working and it loses the plot. I took
it apart to see if the antenna broke, but it's got an ESP8266 module so that's
not it.

------
xg15
I think it's useful to view connectedness in "smart" devices in the same way
we view ads: They are as much a consumer feature as ads are about "informing
users about business opportunities" \- in truth, both are part of the payment
for the service or good.

As such, it's in the interest of the _vendor_ to smuggle "smartness" into as
many products as possible, whether or not there is consumer demand for it - or
even if there is explicit desire not to have it.

------
Entalpi
Reminds me of every time I use a new microwave. Or dishwasher..

Common appliances dont need to be soo different just to stand out to be
honest.

~~~
perl4ever
I bought a cheap Sharp microwave because I'd been accustomed to the way Sharps
work since childhood, but I was disappointed they seem to have messed with the
interface for no good reason. It's not quite as weird as one atrocious GE I
remember, but they still fixed what wasn't broke. The numbers are entered from
the left for some reason.

------
billfruit
I am always surprised that most American alarm clocks run in mains power. In
the 3rd world alarm clocks run on battery power, that saves a lot of
complexity of having to deal with preserving the time in case of power
disruptions, and they are fully functional even through power disruptions.

------
oh_hello
My Nest thermostats have become more trouble than they are worth. The learning
feature constantly overwrites temperatures I have manually set in the schedule
with garbage. Somehow it has learned temperatures I never set. It's
infuriating. Time to shut off the smart features.

------
baggy_trough
Just get the simplest, cheapest clock (the $6 ones on Amazon). [Clock Set]
[Alarm Set] [Hour] [Minute] is the ideal UI we want.

I had a fancier Sony clock that was designed to make it impossible to set the
time. I couldn't figure it out, so I threw it away. Ridiculous!

------
pnako
“I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my
wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my
telephone.” -- Bjarne Stroustrup

------
u801e
I think the only clocks I need to manually adjust are the ones in my cars and
the microwave oven. Everything else sets itself based on NTP or radio signal
(for the radio clocks).

~~~
mark-r
Do your radio clocks still work? The US government was reportedly going to
turn off the transmitters this year, but came through at the last minute to
keep them online.

I have 4 car clocks, 2 oven clocks, 4 wall clocks, and 2 bedside clocks that
need setting manually. My phone and PC are automatic, luckily.

------
rootsudo
I do not know if Raymond is posting in HN or not. I've been seeing an
increased number of his posts lately on HN.

------
NetBeck
He said he thinks the WiFi chip might be broken. I wonder if the thing is
trying to connect to an NTP server.

~~~
jandrese
I'm guessing he upgraded his Router to something with more modern encryption
and the new chip doesn't support it. This is a huge problem with IoT shit,
getting trapped with obsolete protocols because updating all of your old
devices is impossible.

Or you have to run an old network specifically for the IoT garbage and
firewall it off heavily from the Internet, after doing god knows how much
research into each device to figure out what cloud services they use.

------
failrate
My phone is my alarm clock. Why would someone desire a single purpose device
for "alarm clock"?

~~~
fzeroracer
Separation of concerns. Phones operate as a sort of monolith which is
dangerous because if your phone fails, it takes down all of your services.
Phones are also designed to be replaced fairly often which can mean redoing
your alarms and so forth.

It's one of those things you really don't realize until your phone suddenly
dies on you and you have to scramble to get a replacement.

~~~
failrate
I have a Nokia drawer in my kitchen.

------
scarejunba
I like my smart clocks (Google Home devices). They needed a phone to set up,
but then stay synced. I don't adjust the time. I didn't even realize DST
changed until after the gym. Alarms worked correctly. Reminders I set the day
before worked correctly.

This is what I want life to be like. Changing clocks is a bullshit problem.
It's not worth thought.

~~~
raxxorrax
Don't you have radio clocks? A single transmitter has a range up to 2000km.
Perhaps more depending on the frequency. There are also GPS solutions,
although those are more error prone.

~~~
scarejunba
They're cool. My dad had one. The Google ones do other things too so I prefer
them.

------
levismaina
The inmates are running the asylum.

------
caf
This is firmly in the category of _" not sure if it's satire or real"_.

------
jccalhoun
I wish he would name the brand.

------
stevenringo
Is this a Microsoft product?

------
annoyingnoob
That is a real Internet of Shit story. Fuck it, put a chip in it.

------
al_be_back
more like "I tried to adjust the time on my projector-cloaked-as-a-clock. I
failed."

------
pkamb
Why would you buy this clock or allow it in your home?

~~~
annoyingnoob
You allow it in your home so that you do not offend your family member that
gave it to you.

------
deckar01
> January 1, 2018

If your system clock is too far behind, SSL certificates will fail validation.
I suspect during QA the certificates were valid for the reset date, but the
current certificate is not.

~~~
deckar01
Two downvotes and no replies. Set your system time several years in the past
and see what happens to secure sites.

I encountered this issue several times as a PC repair technician. We would
turn a computer on after summer break and find its CMOS battery had died and
the system date had reset. The computer was unable to browse sites secured
with SSL certificates. The start time of those certificates were in the future
relative to the system time, so the system thought they were invalid.

------
lordnacho
Not clear why you'd use your phone to connect to an alarm clock when the major
phone OSes all come with an alarm clock app?

I'd have thought phones had swallowed up alarm clocks along with maps,
calculators, walkmen, etc by now.

~~~
JohnFen
> I'd have thought phones had swallowed up alarm clocks along with maps,
> calculators, walkmen, etc by now.

Nah. If we define "walkmen" as meaning "dedicated portable music players",
then people are still using all those things. I see everything in your list
being used regularly (except for paper maps -- although I used one of those
last week). Not nearly as much as before smartphones, but still.

------
miki123211
I see a lot of people here denigrating devices that need mobile apps to
function. While it may be frustrating for some, be aware of the accessibility
implications of this approach. Most devices are simple enough that the only
way to access them is via buttons and a screen. If you can't see the screen or
have problems pressing the buttons, you're screwed and need to get a device
made especially for you. This has been the case with blind people for years,
and such devices usually cost about 4x the normal ones. Mobile apps, if done
properly, allow such people to use the devices. Sure, an app as an alternative
interface is usually a better idea, but the point still stands.

~~~
cpmsmith
The "if done properly" is carrying a lot of weight there, though. Keeping on
top of accessibility that way is a challenge in apps that are their companies'
entire business, to say nothing of apps that are companions to a "real"
product.

~~~
miki123211
even if not done properly, a semi-accessible solution is better than a totally
inaccessible one. A friend of mine has a hi-fi set that, obviously, doesn't
have a built-in screen reader and the menus are complicated enough that she
can't use it on its own. However, a crashy, semi-accessible app lets her use
it somehow. I don't think anyone at the company cares about accessibility.
Sure, it would be better if someone did, but that's still better than a
(touch)?screen and menus with three levels of nesting that wrap around and
remember your position.

