
Amazon begins temperature checks and will provide surgical masks at warehouses - ajaviaad
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-amazon-com-masks-e/exclusive-amazon-to-deploy-masks-and-temperature-checks-for-workers-by-next-week-idUSKBN21K1Y6
======
envy2
How is this just starting? Here in Singapore, employers have been required to
do twice-daily temperature checks for months.

This is the lowest of low-hanging fruit.

~~~
throwaway32120
That's one of the most frustrating things about the response to this. Even now
we don't have measures like having everyone wear face coverings, having
temperature checks, limiting the number of people in establishments, etc., and
it doesn't seem like anyone in power is advocating them at the moment. The
response seems to be to first shut down the whole economy, then spend a few
weeks thinking about what to do next.

~~~
chosenbreed37
I can relate to the frustration. The one observation I would make is that the
US is not Singapore. Singapore is a relatively small city-state, run by a
benevolent dictatorship and with relatively recent experience with other
corona viruses.

------
oski
This response from Amazon is better than nothing, but given that recent
figures show that up to 25% of people may be asymptomatic, might these
temperature checks give people a false sense of security? They should have any
employee with _any_ symptoms stay home and self-quarantine for longer than 3
days.

They should really focus on getting face masks for employees faster by using
nonmedical fabric masks, which can help prevent asymptomatic transmission by
blocking respiratory droplets from spreading. The article says the surgical
masks won't arrive until next week. And they should really be using some
alternative fabric mask, rather than surgical masks which should go to
healthcare workers.

Each day that interventions are delayed makes a huge difference.

More thoughts at
[https://shouldiwearafacemask.com](https://shouldiwearafacemask.com)

(Edited to remove suggestion to close until they get masks with a compromise
to use nonmedical fabric masks.)

~~~
Wowfunhappy
> They should shut down until they can get face masks for all employees and
> make them mandatory. The article says they won't arrive until next week. And
> they should really be using some alternative fabric mask, rather than
> surgical masks which should go to healthcare workers.

And all the people ordering from Amazon? I would assume that on the whole,
Amazon is better than every member of the public physically going out and
shopping at a store.

~~~
adrr
If they required masks for all supply chain jobs right now, most places would
have to shutdown due to the lack of masks. People would go hungry. We need
guaranteed supply of masks and hand sanitizer at reasonable prices. This where
the government could step in.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Hand sanitizer will be solved in a couple weeks. Every single distillery in my
small town is pivoting to making it, as well as Bacardi and others, and I know
this is happening everywhere.

N95 masks though, those can’t exactly be ramped up and made in your shop.

~~~
fragmede
This crisis we are in has doctors wearing halloween masks so there are people
making masks at home. They're not N95 rated in the slightest, but it's better
than reusing a mask to see a non-covid patient after seeing a probably-covid
patient.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Source of doctors wearing Halloween masks?

~~~
rasz
how about doctors wearing sex shop costumes?
[https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/28/medical-fetish-site-
donates-e...](https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/28/medical-fetish-site-donates-
entire-stock-scrubs-nhs-12469788/)

------
AndrewKemendo
This sentence stuck out to me:

"The company will also use machine-learning software to monitor building
cameras and determine whether employees are staying at safe distances during
their shifts, or whether they are often huddled too close together"

I can see that working in tandem with some kind of alarm or alert sounding
when workers are too close together. The second order effect, would be some
kind of Pavlovian response in Amazon warehouse workers even beyond this
physical distancing period.

That's the kind of stuff you used to read in sci-fi novels.

~~~
SamuelAdams
In the same vein, it would be kind of cool if there was a wristband / necklace
kit that vibrated aggressively if they were placed within close proximity. For
example, most people touch their face between 2-3,000 times a day. The current
CDC recommendation is to not touch your face, but people do this
unconsciously.

So make two wrist bands, wear one on each wrist. Then also make a necklace of
some kind, and if a wristband is brought within 1-2 inches of the necklace,
vibrate the wristband somehow. This will alert the person that they are
touching their face and after enough use, they will hopefully do it less.

~~~
Klathmon
I wonder if this could be done with a smartwatch alone.

Touching your face means that your hand is at a specific angle, and probably
has some accelerometer and gyroscope readings that can be identified as
"touching your face" vs "raising your hand" or lifting things or whatever
else.

Dedicated hardware would be nice, but it's unlikely to be useful in time for
the current pandemic. But an app that was like 90% accurate that could be
released right now (or within a week or 2) might be able to make a difference.

------
brentm
They really should have been doing temperature checks a month ago. Amazon is
pretty critical infrastructure right now. Many people would be up a creek if
Amazon had to shut down.

~~~
Waterluvian
I can see a parallel universe where the military shows up and "fortifies"
critical supply chain locations like this, and they're the ones with the
temperature checks and gate security.

Not sure we're there yet. But I keep thinking about how, "given the lag time
in this disease, appropriate response should look like an overreaction."

~~~
catach
> But I keep thinking about how, "given the lag time in this disease,
> appropriate response should look like an overreaction."

That's a great point. The impact of the virus is going to be much worse than
it could have been because it's behavior exploits some of our cognitive
biases.

------
ceejayoz
Our local grocery store chain (Wegmans) _finally_ let workers wear masks last
night, as well.

~~~
ssully
The Trader Joe's near me took the most serious steps so far. They are limiting
to 30 people in the store at a time and setup 'lanes' six feet apart for carts
to lineup for checkout. When you checkout, they take the cart and have you
stand back while they ring up and bag your stuff. When it's time to pay they
back up from the register and let you pay and take your own receipt. I say
these are the most serious steps because the other grocery stores near me
haven't changed much of anything last time I went to them.

It was a little weird at first, but I am willing to go through whatever hoops
to make the grocery workers comfortable.

~~~
txcwpalpha
All of these steps have already been going on at my local Whole Foods for
almost two weeks now. I don't know if it was a single-store thing or a broader
Whole Foods thing, but it has been weird to me seeing people harp on Amazon's
response to this when the Whole Foods near me has been the _only_ business
seemingly implementing any safety measures.

It was weird at first, but everything went smoothly after the initial
weirdness of people obliviously walking past the line in front of the store
and trying to go inside only to be told to turn around and stand in line.

~~~
ceejayoz
> it has been weird to me seeing people harp on Amazon's response to this when
> the Whole Foods near me has been the only business seemingly implementing
> any safety measures

It's not weird at all to me.

Amazon's treatment of warehouse workers and their treatment of customers are
wildly different.

~~~
txcwpalpha
Reddit has been plastered with reports from Amazon warehouse workers that they
have had temperature checks and PPE (except for masks due to shortages) for
weeks now. It doesn't seem to be that different.

It just seems to be on a case-by-case (or per location) basis, while the media
seems to be just choosing the locations where there isn't such measures and
extrapolating wildly.

~~~
glenneroo
Any sources? Or at least 1-2 subreddits where one can read Amazon warehouse
workers public discussions?

~~~
krapp
[https://reddit.com/r/AmazonFC](https://reddit.com/r/AmazonFC)

------
rnernento
How are they so late on this? I thought Bezos was going to be all over
figuring out how to keep people working safely, that's going to be a huge
factor in the success or failure of businesses going forward.

~~~
Eridrus
The temperature checks and reviewing video are new, but they've been saying
they will provide masks for a while but have been running into shortages
actually procuring them.

If we assume most transmission is asymptomatic, this is largely a PR move that
buys Amazon some time, but doesn't change much, except maybe the price they're
willing to pay for masks.

~~~
catach
Even if we assume most transmission is asymptomatic there's still a ton of
value in cutting down symptomatic transmission.

------
barbegal
What is the accuracy of non-contact infrared thermometers sensors in detecting
high body temperatures? If you use an off the shelf cheap non-contact
thermometer then your will read ~32C when you measure your forehead
temperature. As far as I can tell most health non-contact thermometers work by
measuring the ambient temperature and using this to calibrate the measured
forehead temperature. But there seem to be many factors in play: if a worker
has just come from another colder or hotter environment, the size of a workers
head, ambient air speed, hair covering, where the operator aims the device...

In the best study [1] I have seen using expensive ($25,000) equipment, the
sensitivity vs specificity is too low [2] to suggest that they are useful
outside of environments that can tolerate high levels of false positives. To
catch 90% of the people with Covid-19 you will inadvertently turn away at
least 10% of your workforce as false positives.

I would be interested in seeing studies from actual workplace screenings in
terms of how many workers are turned away and how many feverish workers are
actually detected.

[1][https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/16/11/10-0703_article](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/16/11/10-0703_article)
[2][https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/16/11/10-0703-f1](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/16/11/10-0703-f1)

~~~
astrea
For the sake of safety, I think it is better to err on the side of false-
positives in this situation.

------
charlesju
1\. Everyone should wear surgical masks

2\. Temperature checks everywhere

3\. Testing needs to be ubiquitous and fast

4\. Backtrace every outbreak and quarantine everyone that was in contact

~~~
oski
I agree in general with one change:

s/surgical masks/nonmedical fabric or homemade masks/

At this point there is a shortage of PPE for healthcare workers, so the
general public should wear nonmedical fabric masks or homemade masks.

~~~
joshstrange
I can agree wholeheartedly with this. We need our best PPE on the frontlines.
That said everyone should be covering their face when they go anywhere they
could have contact with other humans (grocery, pharmacy, etc).

------
mayneack
It looks like they're being sent home, not given sick leave. Amazon can
absolutely afford paid sick leave for people they deem unfit for work.

------
dghughes
At a question and answer session in my region (we have them daily) one
question was about masks.

The doctor who answered said most (non medical) people don't know how to wear
them properly. Another problem is taking the mask off without infecting
yourself.

------
blorenz
Do not wear your face mask like the gentleman front and center in the photo!
Not covering your nose has become the source of many memes but it still
widespread. Simply having the fabric on your face does not grant you a
protective aura.

~~~
rpedela
The primary purpose of everyone wearing masks is so that people who are
asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic minimize the spread of their droplets to
everyone else. If the mask also protects you from sick people, that is an
added benefit but secondary. Only N95 masks worn properly can guarantee
protection for the wearer.

That means covering the mouth is most important because even breathing
releases droplets. And the nose should be covered too, but only covering the
mouth does help.

~~~
xbmcuser
Ah no any mask decreases the chances of your catching the virus. N95 masks
provide complete protection so are important in hospital and health setting.
Other masks might not provide 100% protection but if everyone wears them even
50% protection would bring the R to less than 1. People habitually touch their
mouth and nose if it is covered they would not do that so that would help as
well.

~~~
gowld
The 95 in N95 literally means 95%

~~~
BurningFrog
But 95% of what?

Probably not calibrated on Coronavirus transmission.

~~~
chillacy
Non-oil particles over 0.3 nm, of which droplets containing viruses is one of.
There are P100 masks (oil+non-oil) as well, but they're more expensive and
harder to breathe through.

------
andy_ppp
They seem to have randomly stopped delivering some items for 3 weeks even
though they have them in stock. It's very inconsistent; I need a new inner
tube which will be delivered tomorrow but while I'm at it I could do with new
tires too, but those don't turn up until 30th April even though they are in
stock. Could they not just deliver the items all at the same time?

------
oski
Everyone who is still working to provide essential services should be wearing
masks.

There is a major shortage of PPE, so non-healthcare workers should be wearing
nonmedical fabric masks or homemade masks.
[https://shouldiwearafacemask.com](https://shouldiwearafacemask.com) for a
full explanation with the science.

------
AdrianB1
I cannot find accurate information, but the duration of the illness for the
people that do recover from mild cases is around 12-15 days; sending people
home if they have fever for "minimum 3 days" does not make sense, you send
them home until they have no fever for at least 3 days, so they are clean.

------
Causality1
I'm sure there's a German word for "a company announcing a positive step that
hurts its reputation because everybody thought they were doing it already".
Closely related to the "software feature announcement that everyone can't
believe it didn't have already".

------
legohead
I'm also curious about how they are dealing with the actual sent packages.
From past videos I've seen, workers place the objects in boxes. So if a worker
is sick, wouldn't they be sending contaminated items out? Is amazon doing
anything about that in particular?

------
0x8BADF00D
Imagine if we had a healthcare system like Singapore. Not like the one we
currently have now, where the government interferes in the free market and as
a result the cost goes through the roof.

------
nikolay
Both Amazon, Facebook, and eBay should be sued for enabling price gouging. I
report at least 20 ads a day on Facebook for overpriced face masks, there are
still tons of masks and respisrators on eBay and other overpriced
necessesities such as toilet paper, paper towels, and hand sanitizers. Amazon
also allows a lot of crooks to sell stuff and never deliver it and now they
blocked a lot of non-medical grade stuff for "governments and hospitals" like
2 oz sanitier gels and others. In addition, Amazon also now has all out of
stock items as "Temporarily out of stock.", i.e. lying to you and tricking you
to place an order and wait for it to be delivered... one day!

------
soperj
Love how Amazon staff will get surgical masks while doctors in America have to
re-use theirs and use them for a whole shift.

------
oski
TL;DR: starting next week, Amazon will start:

1) taking temperatures of employees, fever >100.4°F to be sent home for min 3
days

2) giving surgical masks to employees once it receives shipments of orders of
“millions”

3) using machine learning-powered video software to monitor social distancing

(Shameless plug for a little site I made to help spread the word that we need
#masks4all:
[https://shouldiwearafacemask.com](https://shouldiwearafacemask.com))

~~~
exergy
Is there any reason you couldn't just write "Amazon"? I see people do this
thing often on HN, for instance "At $DayJob, we do...". Is it like a sign of
belonging to a tribe?

~~~
artificial
Reminiscent of the Micro$oft days of yore at Slashdot.

~~~
oski
Yes!!! :) I miss that Bill Gates borg image: [https://lurkertech.com/bill-the-
borg/](https://lurkertech.com/bill-the-borg/)

------
axaxs
How are temperature checks useful? I thought I'd read that people are
asymptomatic for up to 2 weeks, during which time they can spread it. If that
is the case, temperature checks do absolutely nothing to stop the spread
here...

~~~
massysett
I am seeing this logic a lot: “this preventive measure isn’t 100 percent
perfect, therefore it’s completely useless.”

Even measures that are only partially effective can make a substantial
difference, especially at a population level.

~~~
ryandrake
I get the feeling a lot of HN commenters would recommend against condoms
because they're only 98% effective, and only if used correctly, therefore
completely useless.

~~~
AdrianB1
No, they would not recommend the day-after pill as one of the core measures.
Taking the temperature means you find out something is wrong a week late.

------
dillonmckay
Lagging indicators?

------
sjg007
I just hope Amazon has bulked ordered masks of sufficient quality that we
ourselves can buy some from Amazon.com that are sold by Amazon.

We have to move to a mask culture until we get a vaccine.

------
paul7986
Correct me if Im wrong, but even with temperature checks which you may not
have you are still potentially a carrier? If so, I hope we can find a better
detection system if a vaccine isn't created ASAP.

~~~
umanwizard
The point of mitigation measures is to reduce the spread, not to slow it to
zero, which is impossible.

------
reaperducer
For those interested in reading the actual journalism, not a blog re-writing
someone else's work:

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-
amazon...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-amazon-com-
masks-e/exclusive-amazon-to-deploy-masks-and-temperature-checks-for-workers-
by-next-week-idUSKBN21K1Y6)

The HN link should probably be changed.

~~~
Angostura
The link should be changed anyway - that cookie control thing is the worst
ever, offering no control.

~~~
jwr
The one at Reuters isn't that much better. If you refuse, Reuters will
immediately forget your "Managed Consent" and slam you in the face again on
your next visit.

I suspect they have no problem remembering your consent forever, it's just
refusal that gets immediately forgotten.

~~~
tastyfreeze
If you reject their use of cookies how are they supposed to remember your
rejection the next time you visit?

~~~
mattigames
If the law doesn't make a single exception so the webpage can store a boolean
value into a cookie to know this user doesn't want to be bothered with any
_other_ cookies the law is wrong.

~~~
stuaxo
It does make exception for cookies used to make the site function.

------
chvid
I thought here in the west that it was well-established that temperature
checks and mask do not work against the corona?!

~~~
lacker
Unfortunately, it’s becoming more clear that the government-science bodies
like the CDC and the WHO have been spreading inaccurate information.

~~~
twomoretime
What's clear is that the entire system has degenerated as the competence of
the average person has been eroded over the last few decades.

Failures across the board. Federal government, state government, local
government, hospitals, insurance companies - no one in positions of authority
saw this coming in January? No one with clout or power had the foresight to
stockpile masks or other PPE, just in case?

Why isn't a national emergency stockpile being maintained when we've seen a
dozen potential global pandemics in the last decade alone?

Apparently even officials aren't immune to senseless groupthink.

~~~
krapp
>Failures across the board. Federal government, local government, hospitals,
insurance companies - no one in positions of authority saw this coming in
January?

People did see it coming. The administration ignored early warnings about the
virus and publicly downplayed the severity of the issue in order to preserve
the stock market and Trump's poll numbers in an election year. This after
dismantling much of the infrastructure and firing the personnel needed to
respond to this issue in order to cut costs.

~~~
twomoretime
This failure goes far deeper than Trump. There are so many people in _so many_
positions of authority who could have acted - administrators allocating funds
for emergency stockpiles, both private and public. Police, fire, everyone was
sitting with their ass up their thumb waiting for what, big brother government
to tell them to do something? The administration ignored early warnings about
the virus and publicly downplayed the severity of the issue in order to
preserve the stock market and Trump's poll numbers in an election year. This
after dismantling much of the infrastructure and firing the personnel needed
to respond to this issue in order to cut costs.

This is nonsense, if you presume the administration knew what was coming then
they would have known that this would last up until election season, as it
likely will. Unless you're implying that they waited deliberately for it to
get worse so they could "fix" it. But you'd never prove something like that.
In any case that still doesn't excuse the other tens of thousands of people
for individually and collectively failing to act.

I started stockpiling mid January.

~~~
krapp
>This is nonsense, if you presume the administration knew what was coming then
they would have known that this would last up until election season, as it
likely will.

Here is an article pointing out that Trump ignored warnings about the virus
from his own intelligence services as far back as January[0].

Here is an article about his efforts to downplay the effects of the virus, and
calling it a Democratic hoax[1], also going back to January.

Here is an article about Trump's efforts to quickly scale back social
distancing guidelines and ending the quarantine in order to get the economy
going, again, for the sake of his reelection campaign.

Here is an article about the lies, minisformation and misdirection Trump has
offered about the coronavirus[3].

> Unless you're implying that they waited deliberately for it to get worse so
> they could "fix" it.

I'm not implying that. I will imply that Trump assumed the problem would just
go away, and when it didn't, his primary concern became political damage
control. FFS he's said he only willing to help blue states with funding if
they stop criticizing him[4] and during a press briefing on the coronavirus he
boasted about being "number one on facebook."[5] Clearly he cares more about
his image and his ego than he does the health of the country.

Notwithstanding whatever other failures have occurred, when the Executive
branch is being run like this during a crisis, the result affects the entire
system. It affects funding. It affects procurement and distribution of goods.
It affects the way people behave, whether they even believe a crisis _exists,_
and what actions should be taken. There's an entire "coronavirus truther"
thing happening now resulting in people ignoring quarantine orders and that's
directly a result of Trump convincing people the scale and danger of the
problem has been overblown by the "liberal media" in order to attack him.
That's directly his fault.

[0][https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-
intellig...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-
reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-
pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html?tid=lk_inline_manual_2&itid=lk_inline_manual_2)

[1][https://www.vox.com/2020/3/18/21184945/trump-coronavirus-
com...](https://www.vox.com/2020/3/18/21184945/trump-coronavirus-comments-
then-versus-now)

[2][https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-trump-wants-
to-r...](https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-trump-wants-to-reopen-
economy-to-boost-reelection-bid-2020-3)

[3][https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/trumps-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/trumps-
lies-about-coronavirus/608647/)

[4][https://www.vox.com/2020/3/25/21193803/trump-to-governors-
co...](https://www.vox.com/2020/3/25/21193803/trump-to-governors-coronavirus-
help-ventilators-cuomo)

[5][https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1245476330193518596](https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1245476330193518596)

~~~
twomoretime
You are _far too eager_ to use this as an excuse to shit on Trump.

I'm not remarking in the incompetence and/or maliciousness of Trump and his
administration. I'm pointing out that it's a failure across the board.

But you clearly are unable to look at things objectively. Again, I'm not here
to flame about the president. Everyone screwed up. Tens of thousands of people
with power failed to act. Including Democrats. That was my while point. Stop
with the partisan politics, they have no place here.

~~~
krapp
I was trying to provide some evidence and context for the part of my comment
you were calling nonsense, and you'll note I never actually disagreed with
you, I just think we disagree on what share of blame goes where.

But fine, I admit I get a bit heated about Trump, especially lately, but it
isn't partisan politics. I don't feel the way I do about him or his leadership
merely because because he's a Republican.

------
claudeganon
...because their workers are striking across the country:

[https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/amazon...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/amazon-
employees-coronavirus-walkout)

Labor organizing - it works!

------
typest
> Amazon has detailed someone measures its taking

Does techcrunch not have copy editors? Two errors in the first six words of
this article. I was an editor at my high school newspaper and we would not
have published this.

------
DoofusOfDeath
I wish we knew more about how much the virus is spread by asymptomatic workers
in those settings. Otherwise it seems like closing the barn door after the
horses have fled.

EDIT FOR CLARITY: I'm referring to the conditions specific to these Amazon
fulfillment centers. Not only specific to the screening regime that Amazon is
using, but also to the airflow patterns, specific surface materials, cleaning
schedule, etc.

Last I checked, it was generally accepted that covid19 can be spread while
people are still asymptomatic, even if they practice 2-meter spacing and are
wearing masks.

Because even with those measures in place, persons can still contaminate their
hands with fluids mucus / saliva / tears, and then go on to touch objects or
surface that will subsequently be touched by others.

Therefore, while prohibiting employees with fevers or other signs of covid19
infection are undoubtedly a good idea, there's still _some_ risk of person-to-
person transmission even with those who pass that screening.

It's the probability of _that_ kind of transmission that interests me. Because
if it's non-zero, there are a few questions worth asking:

\- Should Amazon take _additional_ measures to prevent person-to-person
transmission? E.g., run most products through an anti-microbial UV lamp? Tweak
their AI camera monitors to also look for people touching their faces?

\- If that can compare the transmission probabilities of (a) the employees who
pass that screening system vs. (b) those who would not, and the probabilities
are very close, is the world better off by allowing people in group (b) to
continue working?

~~~
hirundo
Aerosols. Masks are an efficient and low cost intervention for limiting such
transmissions. Here's a review of 67 randomised controlled studies concluding
that.

[https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/ARI_physical-
interventions...](https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/ARI_physical-
interventions-to-interrupt-or-reduce-the-spread-of-respiratory-viruses)

Is it ok to close the barn door now?

