

"I have nothing to hide" is the wrong way to think about surveillance - washedup
http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/

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carsongross
The right way to think about surveillance, in the US anyway, is as follows:
the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and _particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized_.

~~~
superuser2
Papers, houses, persons, and effects does not include communications or other
people's papers about you. We need a new Wiretap Act for this era.

~~~
ericHosick
> does not include communications or other people's papers about you.

One could say that the type information I have is ill-relevant: it is still
covered by the 4th amendment (it is my papers, houses, persons, effects). So,
it doesn't make logical sense that information I hold about other people is in
some way not covered under the 4th amendment.

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jdp23
The discussion from the original posting on Moxie Marlinspike's blog is at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5869394](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5869394)

Daniel Solove's "Why privacy matters even if you have nothing to hide" is a
good complement to this piece.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4105485](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4105485)

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fnordfnordfnord
For arguing with these "I have nothing to hide" folk.

I'd like to put up a website[1]. At the website, I'd begin posting my personal
details. Telephone records, Credit Card Bills, Utility bills, etc. Eventually
have a lot of info on there. Not because I like surveillance or don't enjoy my
privacy, but because now I can go and make really snarky comments and
arguments to the "I have nothing to hide" brigade. Invite them to post all of
their data, show their hypocrisy when they don't, or show what we can all
learn about them if they do. Anybody else interested?

[1] Trouble is I suck at websites.

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nathan_long
Among other flaws, the titular phrase comes with hidden assumptions:

"I have nothing to hide", _assuming_ ":

\- everyone accessing my information, now and forever in the future, is honest

\- those monitoring me and agree with me about what's good and bad and their
definition never changes in a way that hurts me

\- my information can never be stolen by crooks, advertisers, etc

and so forth

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Proleps
Even if you have nothing to hide people you depend on might have something to
hide. If a politician cheats on his wife, and only a small branch of the
government knows this, they could use this to bribe him.

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lr
My response to the "I have nothing to hide," or "Don't break the law, and you
have nothing to worry about," crowds is the following: If you have nothing to
hide, then you should not be opposed to having a "black box" installed in your
car. This way, the next time you are pulled over for any reason, the
police/highway patrol can just plug into your black box, and if you have
exceeded the state speed limit at any point (since it was last read), they can
just give you a ticket on the spot.

~~~
mixmastamyk
Why wait to get pulled over? They could mail the fine the moment the
infraction occurs. Actually, now that I think of it why mail it? Could just
debit your bank account directly and save everyone a lot of time.

~~~
pyre
I remember watching an episode of the defunct show Seaquest DSV as a kid, and
this was partially there. It was an automated checkpoint that recorded the
'speeding,' but the ticket/payment/etc all happened automatically with a
notification to the user.

~~~
ekianjo
It's more or less like that in France. Automatic speed checks leading to mail
in your box with the fine to pay.

~~~
macavity23
Likewise in the UK. 95%+ of speed checks are automated cameras with
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anpr](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anpr)

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netcan
I think there is a parallel between copyright industries going crazy trying to
make digital copies obey the rules of physical copies and our current horror
at our loss of privacy. pg had an essay that starts by comparing copyright
theft in the digital age to a restaurant owner trying to charge for smells.

Maybe surveillance is the wrong way to think about privacy.

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nano111
I have everything to hide until the government has nothing to hide.

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jsemrau
Freedom is to not have to care about surveillance.

