
Netherlands National Airline Encourages People Not to Fly - atlasunshrugged
https://qz.com/1658880/klm-airline-is-encouraging-people-not-to-fly/
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Freak_NL
This looks a lot like an attempt at greenwashing by Air France-KLM (of which
KLM is one brand) — although anything that ends up decreasing our global
footprint is okay with me.

What Air France-KLM wants is a reduction in short distance flights in order to
remain competitive on long distance ones (which are presumably more
profitable). Air France-KLM uses Schiphol Amsterdam Airport as the hub for the
majority of their KLM flights, but Schiphol has reached the ceiling in terms
of allowed flight movements.

The plan was to offload Schiphol's low-cost holiday flights to the newly built
Lelystad Airport, which should have been opened by now. However, Lelystad
Airport's opening has just been postponed for the third time (and may never
open at all), because it will likely exceed legal limits of nitrogen oxide
emissions (amongst other issues, not all environmental).

Instead, they appear to wish to replace short distance flights with long haul
ones (at least at Schiphol).

~~~
stingraycharles
Why can’t they just reduce supply for short distance flights, rather than
trying to decrease demand?

~~~
TeeWEE
KLM is decoupled from Schiphol. Other airliners will step in, often they are
very price competitive, KLM is not. Something like EasyYet is.

~~~
stingraycharles
So what you’re saying that KLM’s strategy is to reduce the overall share of
short distance flights, in order for Schiphol to allocate more flights for
long distance, and KLM will profit?

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Freak_NL
Nitpick: KLM is not the national Dutch airline (although it used to be in the
twentieth century). KLM is just one brand of the Air France-KLM multinational
(of which the Dutch government does own 14% of the stock).

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tluyben2
I would take the train, but it's vastly more expensive than flying, almost
always. It takes more time, but that's often not a problem; the price is. I
mean it's literally 3-10x more expensive to go by train. With the added loss
of time, I cannot see many people doing that.

Also when you take business flights, and the company paying for it (I am a
freelancer so the companies pay me to fly directly) would be not amused if I
add on CO2 there. So I have to do that personally to fly for business?

~~~
systemtest
The loss of time is minimal for small distances (< 500km) as you don't have
check-in and don't have to travel to the airport first.

For longer distance flights: Wake up at 07:00, take the train to the airport
at 08:00, take the 10:30 flight from Schiphol to Barcelona and get out of the
airport at 15:00. Take a taxi to the city center and arrive at 15:30. Or take
the 08:00 train, sit back, relax and get off right in the center of the city
at 20:00. You have may lost a couple of hours but you could sit down and read
a book the entire time. Luggage is easier. Nobody groping you or giving you
troubles about fluids. And good food in the trains too.

Ever better: Night trains. Take the 21:00 train. Fall asleep. Wake up at 09:00
having passed two countries.

~~~
Hinrik
According to Google Maps, every train itinerary from Amsterdam to Barcelona in
the morning has 2-3 transfers, with the last one being a bus. And the shortest
possible duration is just over 13.5 hours, not 12 like you said.

The transfers and bus are still required if you go with a night train.

~~~
Freak_NL
The last bus bit is only necessary if you absolutely must go to the Barcelona
Estació de França station. The train from Toulouse stops in Barcelona Sants
station.

The fastest train connection from Amsterdam Centraal to Bercelona Sants takes
11:15.

The night train option means you leave Amsterdam at 17:15, and end up in
Barcelona before noon. That's not too bad, and you get to see a lot of nice
scenery in the train from Amsterdam to Paris and Toulouse to Barcelona (the
Paris to Toulouse being the night train).

(Edit: you can check the itinerary on sncf.fr, amongst others)

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tdons
Call me a cynic, but this is nothing more than an advert for their CO2ZERO
programme:

[https://flyresponsibly.klm.com/en#keypoints?article=WhatYoud...](https://flyresponsibly.klm.com/en#keypoints?article=WhatYoudo)

~~~
maelito
Yes, but it's a marker that the world is (too slowly) changing.

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systemtest
KLM is doing good things. For customers in Belgium, you can get a free train
ticket from Brussels and Antwerp to Schiphol Airport. That way you don't need
a connecting flight.

[https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/plan_and_book/ticket_inform...](https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/plan_and_book/ticket_information/travel_by_train_or_bus_on_a_klm_ticket/index.htm)

~~~
brunnsbe
Afaik it's not a free train ticket, KLM cooperates with Thalys (high-speed
trains) and part of the price for your flight ticket covers the train. It's
still a nice and good option!

~~~
thesimon
Indeed, you need to book the flight to/from ZYR.

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spodek
In my fourth year of not flying, I keep finding the choice to stop flying one
of the best of my life.

I originally challenged myself to go a year without flying, anticipating on
day 366 I'd be on a flight since I love traveling. Also I wondered how long I
could put off family and work obligations.

But in that year, the things I replaced flying with improved my life more than
flying did, so I went for another year. Now I have some lingering sense that
I'll fly again, but the interest decreases, particularly as people's claims
for the necessity of their flying increasingly sound like justifications for
addictions and cravings, beholden to the values of systems they think are
universal but aren't.

~~~
iso1337
What did you replace flying with?

~~~
ilogik
walking...

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maelito
I look forward to the first airline to offer night train routes.

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punnerud
Super simple idea on how transportation should work:

[https://youtu.be/zpkmGV9a6V0](https://youtu.be/zpkmGV9a6V0)

[https://youtu.be/GlBOqM99q5g](https://youtu.be/GlBOqM99q5g)

If we could change between cars, buses, trains, boats at speed; do we need
plains? No stops and full speed all the way.

(Will try to make more complexed models and visualize between boats, buses,
trains.. But the main idea is the same)

~~~
ojm
Don’t think changing between cars, buses, trains or boats at speed will make
me stop using plains (sp).

But then again, crossing the Pacific or getting anywhere in the world from
Australia requires some serious distance, unlike many European flights.

~~~
punnerud
Crossing the Pacific will probably not work in a long time without one
extremely long tunnel. But for a lot of 1-2hour flights and transportation
with cars. With highspeed train maybe also 2-6 hour plain flights. Do the
math, it can compete on time.

~~~
ant6n
The Bering straight is not very wide.

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jcims
How much does the externality of building and maintaining a railway factor
into the net carbon emissions and ecological impact of train travel?

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amelius
> encouraged customers to invest in the airline’s carbon offsetting scheme

Why isn't carbon offsetting enforced by regulations yet?

~~~
junaru
> pack lightly

This is marketing speak for "save us fuel costs" while we will not lower
ticket prices.

~~~
tluyben2
That is the problem with all of this; all the airlines need to sound good but
they are not very willing to help. Like why don't they add in the CO2 in the
price and make less margin if they want to be so environmentally conscious?
They don't want to do that because less profit. KLM did well last year and
they are quite expensive anyway on most flights (they are never in the top 5
when I need to fly, inside EU or long haul where I need to go) so they could
do that. But they want us to pack lighter, sit in shittier chairs _and_ pay
into their CO2 program, while they do not lower prices.

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perfunctory
I dunno. How did the journalist translate "we invite all air travelers to make
responsible decisions about flying" (from the open letter linked in the
article) into "Maybe don’t take that flight"?

I guess an airline CEO actively discouraging flying would be violating their
fiduciary duties.

~~~
icebraining
As the article says, the video asks: "Do meetings always have to take place
face-to-face? Could you take the train instead?"

That seems to be quite clearly promoting not taking a flight.

~~~
perfunctory
Thnx. I watched the video now. But I maintain that a CEO will not do anything
to deliberately hurt shareholder value. I believe Freak_NL's comment is
correct
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20361619](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20361619)),
they are trying to free up airport capacity from short flights to use it for
long haul ones.

~~~
icebraining
The journalist never claimed he was deliberately hurting shareholder value...

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alexeiz
I will listen to them when politicians stop flying.

