
The Case for Ubuntu Phone - reddotX
http://gould.cx/ted/blog/2017/01/14/The-Case-for-Ubuntu-Phone/
======
mamon
I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot find it anywhere.

Canonical's page says that all devices are out of stock, various online stores
say exactly the same thing, and all the devices that are listed as compatibile
(Nexus 5 for instance) are two generations old and also hard to come by.

The only option I haven't tried is buying used phone on eBay, because they
usually come in pretty bad shape so I want brand new device.

Please Canonical, get your shit together and release SOMETHING, pretty much
any device with 4.5 inch screen 2GB RAM and 32GB flash will do.

~~~
slitaz
You can get the tablet bq M10 now. Or you can preorder the Fair phone 2, the
version with Ubuntu preinstalled.

~~~
Paul_O_Meany_Jr
The Fairphone 2 doesn't come with Ubuntu preinstalled and the project to run
the OS on the phone is community based and in progress.

[http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-
fairphone-2-port-u...](http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-
fairphone-2-port-update) [https://forum.fairphone.com/t/fairphone-2-ubuntu-
touch/23475](https://forum.fairphone.com/t/fairphone-2-ubuntu-touch/23475)

------
rcarmo
I applaud the OP's bravery, but after a long, long time in the telco business
and having seen many attempts from multiple platforms towards gaining a
foothold (Symbian, Maemo, LiMo - including Vodafone's own version - Bada,
etc.), I have to point out that Ubuntu Phone, despite the vision and values
behind it, is at a massively overwhelming disadvantage in terms of both telco
appeal (what I and my former colleagues still in the device procurement part
of the telco business have seen so far has no compelling advantage over
Android) and ecosystem.

Even if selling off-telco worked, the one problem I see is the lack of that
ecosystem, or a way to bootstrap it, because if it ran Android apps (and
therefore fracture the user experience) that would not ensure developer
adoption... And most people only want a "good enough" phone that lets them run
apps and a few games, which further compounds the problem -- the value of
Ubuntu Phone Just isn't apparent to them, which is sad.

~~~
giancarlostoro
I think the biggest thing that could probably help the Ubuntu Phone is an
approachable development environment. If the road to developing apps for a
phone is short enough, that people on their weekend make apps for it, it will
expand rapidly with apps. This requires great tooling, and documentation.
Potentially even adoption of a programming language that either comes with a
powerful SDK or is tailored from the ground up for this purpose, or forked.
We've seen this type of boom with Go. Go has a LOT of out of the box
functionality, and Python does too, it is what makes people stick to them once
they like them in my opinion. However, tooling and documentation are key. I
know Ubuntu has Ubuntu Make, but it still has a long way to go. If they can
make a great development ecosystem, they can bring in a number of developers.

~~~
seabrookmx
Curious why you say Go comes with a lot out of the box. Compared to Python or
Java I find it pretty lacking. And even more so when you include 3rd party
libraries and the fact that Go has no package manager ala. pip or Ivy.

Android Studio is a pretty mature well documented way to make apps so if
anyone is truly determined and has some programming experience, making a
simple Android app in a weekend is doable. I've heard (but don't know
personally) that the iOS toolchain is even easier to use.

That all aside, nobody will WANT to spend their weekend making Ubuntu apps
when nobody has a phone to run them.

~~~
mixedCase
> and the fact that Go has no package manager ala. pip or Ivy.

A featureful Go package manager a la Cargo or NPM is coming.

A not-so basic package manager is baked into the language and its official
tooling. It just behaves like a Unix application, so instead of "pip uninstall
package" you run "rm -rf $GOPATH/src/github.com/author/package" (or do it in
your app's vendor directory, instead of using a virtualenv).

------
hd4
The most logical thing for Ubuntu Phone to do would be to start out with
making some kind of ROM that people could sideload onto their existing
Android. The people who first started out using Ubuntu were interested enough
and wanted an alternative to Windows badly enough that they didn't mind
installing it as a replacement. Why can't Ubuntu Phone start out as a
replacement to Android? The only "problem" being that Android has not really
messed up too badly yet, other than in making everything go through the Google
Play Services and shutting out AOSP and leaving it stuck in 2009.

And yes there is a ROM out there but it's not available on enough devices to
create enough of a stir. This is the mistake Canonical is making, and they
might regret leaving the job of porting to popular devices up to the
'community' (read: volunteers) instead of paying a team of developers to just
get the ROM working to a point where it is a half-decent alternative to even
Cyanogenmod. Microsoft made that same mistake before the iPhone and never
really recovered.

~~~
dsr_
And they should write a porting guide, first thing. Start with setting up a
dev environment and cross-compiler.

Then they should do a sample port to some very easy to obtain hardware, a
Chinese $100 GSM phone, and document the whole process step-by-step.

If you want wide support, you need to leverage enthusiasm.

~~~
BuuQu9hu
They have a porting guide here:

[https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-
de...](https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-device/)

Cross-compilers have been available for a while now.

------
giancarlostoro
I would love to have a Ubuntu Phone, but my carrier in the US probably doesn't
support such phones yet as far as I'm aware. If they can sooner reach the
multiple carriers in this side of the globe effectively (and hopefully not
AT&T first, kind of sick of everyone going to them first) then that would help
the ecosystem currently going on. I am not enjoying the options left.

I loved Android at first because it is based on Linux, but I don't feel like
I'm using Linux, I just feel like I'm using the only other option left. I like
the few freedoms Android gives me at least, but it takes more effort than if I
had Ubuntu installed on a computer to do anything useful on it.

Amazon tried, but why would I want to stop being locked down by one tech giant
just to be locked down to the next. A phone should have the essentials,
nothing forcefully locked into the phone. I can't uninstall Facebook,
Instagram, or Messenger from my phone without rooting. If one day they all
shut down that becomes a completely useless set of applications. Years from
now I should still be able to text and call though? I should be able to change
the apps that do those things too either way! If the manufacturer stops
supporting them for example.

I love the freedom of Linux, and Android never feels like it yet. I hope
Ubuntu comes to America and becomes highly available everywhere. I also hope
competitors are allowed, or Distros. Would be nice to see alternative phones.
I don't want to be locked down as much as I love Google, they shouldn't have
total control of my phone, neither should Apple, or Canonical.

At least Canonical respects that.

~~~
udp
_> I would love to have a Ubuntu Phone, but my carrier in the US probably
doesn't support such phones yet as far as I'm aware._

How does that work? Does the carrier have to support each new brand of phone?

I don't think we have a system like that here in the UK. I have an iPhone 6
paid for with a monthly contract, but I was using a ~2002 Nokia feature phone
recently while it was away for repair.

~~~
sverige
Just went through this research again for the first time in five or six years.
One of the most frustrating things about US carriers is that they force
manufacturers to limit their offerings in this market.

For example, dual SIM card phones are not offered on any phones built for the
US market, since carriers make a lot of their money from financing new phones.
There are also phones with three and four SIM cards made for other markets.
Need two (or three or four) numbers? In the US, you have to buy two (or three
or four) phones.

AT&T and T-Mobile use the GSM protocol on their networks, which is the
protocol used in the rest of the world. The 2G bands use different frequencies
in this hemisphere than the frequencies used in Europe and Asia. The 3G and 4G
and LTE bands are different yet, but the basic protocol is the same, so if the
radio works, the phone works.

Sprint and Verizon use a different protocol called CDMA which is incompatible
with GSM. Phones designed for foreign markets do not work at all on their
networks.

So to summarize, barriers built using different protocols and marketing limit
the ability for US consumers to treat their handset for what it is (a
commodity) and help lock them in to one of two carriers. This is why Apple and
Samsung can get away with charging $600+ for devices that cost a very small
fraction of that to manufacture using impoverished laborers.

I just bought a 2G Philips dual SIM phone made in China for the Russian market
that will work on T-mobile's US 2G network. (It will not work on AT&T since
they turned off their 2G network on January 1.) I plan to use two SIM cards
for the two numbers I have, and to limit mobile data to a tablet for those
times when I absolutely need it. Everything else (paying bills, looking for
work, shopping, playing games, getting directions, etc.) will be done on a
laptop or desktop.

I would welcome reform of the US cell market, but I'm not holding my breath
for that to happen. They simply have too much power, and most Americans are
completely unaware that it could be any different or better.

~~~
morganvachon
> _For example, dual SIM card phones are not offered on any phones built for
> the US market, since carriers make a lot of their money from financing new
> phones._

Actually there are plenty of dual SIM models available in the US from US
companies that are 100% compatible with US carriers, you just have to be
willing to open a browser and shop for five minutes. I am currently using a
Microsoft Lumia 650 dual SIM phone, purchased from Microsoft and shipped to me
in Georgia (US) from California. It fully supports both AT&T's and T-Mobile's
networks, and consequently all MVNOs of those networks. Until I gave her my
Nexus 6, my wife was using a dual SIM Blu Android phone, sold by a Florida
based company and shipped from the US. Again, the phone supported all US GSM
bands.

~~~
sverige
I stand corrected. I was not shopping for smartphones this time around, so
hadn't looked at those. There isn't nearly as much variety in basic phones and
feature phones offered in the US.

~~~
morganvachon
You're right, and that's unfortunate. I wanted a basic phone for porting out
my Google voice number to my carrier when I decided to stop using all Google
services, but there wasn't anything worth having that was cheaper than a
smartphone. So, since I was buying a new smartphone anyway, I went with a dual
SIM model.

------
Santosh83
FOSS software running phones/tablets is currently at roughly the same place
FOSS software on the PC was at the turn of the millenium, and now reports
indicate that Linux on the PC/laptop is gaining more and more notice from
vendors each year, something no one could've dreamnt of during the
monopolistic haydays of MS. So whether or not it gains traction from telcos
and the average consumer, a functioning alternative to closed ecosystems is
justified by its very existence and the ever-present possibility that a
combination of factors can at any moment cause it to rise to the forefront.
But it can win only if it's still in the ring right?

------
andrewclunn
PCs have interchangeable components that are built around standards. So if
it's easier to write for them in an abstracted way. Vendors control the
hardware for their phones. They have no interest in enabling people to remove
their Android flavor, with built in crapware. Open source phone OSes will
come, but only after we've reduced the smart phone to a commodity and market
forces have compelled standardization through economy of scale.

------
benevol
What I urgently need to see before I can buy an Ubuntu phone is an integrated
1-click backup solution:

I want to connect my Ubuntu phone to my Ubuntu notebook and click "Backup
now", to have everything I need synced to my notebook (and not to some
"cloud"/somebody else's server).

~~~
popey
In lieu of such a tool, I wrote a crappy shell script to backup my Ubuntu
Phones. :)

[https://github.com/popey/buds](https://github.com/popey/buds)

~~~
benevol
Thanks. It's just that the average user will never accept such hurdles. An
automated backup solution is really one of the most important things to have
in phones. No backup solution means one must be OK with losing all the data as
soon as the phone gets stolen or lost.

~~~
popey
Indeed. I wrote that before there was a backup tool built into Ubuntu Phone. I
saw a demo of the backup tool a few months back, but don't know if it landed
yet.

~~~
benevol
> don't know if it landed yet.

How can the consumer know about all currently available features in Ubuntu
phones? A dedicated page for that would allow one to check "if Ubuntu is ready
for me".

~~~
popey
It's a bit academic right now as there are no Ubuntu phones on sale, but yes,
that would be a great page to make.

~~~
AgentME
There are Ubuntu tablets on sale now, which run about the same software as far
as I know.

~~~
Yakkety1610
Tablets here (top choice):

[https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%...](https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-
alias%3Daps&field-keywords=BQ+Ubuntu)

------
oelmekki
The paragraph focused on carriers in this article makes me wonder : can ubuntu
mobile guarantee OEM won't install any uninstallable apps as well?

I only buy nexus phones precisely because I don't want the carriers and OEM
stuff, they always have been a bad experience for me. I can see how "build
your own bundle" is a selling point for carriers, but it's hardly one for
users.

That being said, I'm excited to see a true linux mobile distro. I've tried it
on my nexus 7 when most apps were placeholders, can't wait to see a viable
one. Any chance to have dual boot?

~~~
Brakenshire
> The paragraph focused on carriers in this article makes me wonder : can
> ubuntu mobile guarantee OEM won't install any uninstallable apps as well?

It looks like he's saying that Ubuntu gives carriers more flexibility to
bundle in alternative apps and services, as you say it would be interesting to
know whether Ubuntu will agree to carriers making those services
uninstallable. My guess is Ubuntu do not have the clout to stop that, and
still get sold through that channel. I would say there will always be a
distinction between phones you buy directly and those bundled with contracts.
The latter will always involve that kind of influence from the carriers. One
compromise could be it comes locked down, but includes some non-obvious but
relatively easy way to root the system, and open it up completely.

------
slitaz
With the new Android versions, it is far more difficult to get tools like
xposed to reclaim some of the privacy and control back. Having a usable
alternative is essential.

------
Steveoz5
Many comments same/similar to "I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot
find it anywhere."

Well, I got tired of waiting, so I bought a NEW Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme Edition)
and installed Ubuntu.

Works great. New phone, with warranty, running Ubuntu.

What's more the Pro 5 runs a Exynos 7420 (ARMv8-A) so is likely to run the
Xenial based snap image when released by Canonical.

------
rsync
We really need something like "GNU phoneutils" ... a big package of command
line utilities to control and manipulate a telephone.

I really, really want to do things like this:

    
    
      cat file | sms -send -n 4157771234
    
      grep mom addresses | awk (field with phonenumber) | dial --nobusy --retry 3
    

That is to say, I want a _unix phone_. I want to run the phone with unix and
unix commands. Certainly not all of the time, but some of the time I would
like the power to manipulate dialing/texting/answering in this way.

I am not aware of _any_ utilities like this - collected in a big package or
not ...

~~~
atmin
You kinda can do it on Android via Termux: [https://termux.com/add-on-
api.html](https://termux.com/add-on-api.html)

~~~
digi_owl
Hrmf, 5.0 or newer. And here I was wondering if I could get some extra mileage
out of my older devices...

------
mtgx
> The biggest strength and weakness of Ubuntu Phone is that it’s a device
> without an intrinsic set of services. If you buy an Android device you get
> Google Services. If you buy an iPhone you get Apple services.

I think what you may get with a "popular" mainstream Ubuntu phone platform
will be a lot worse - like Canonical allowing companies to install their own
services/crapware, but worse than it already is for Android phones.

------
throw2016
A interesting effort by Ubuntu that could have potentially enriched the
ecosystem for users but hardware and drivers in the tightly closed Arm and
Google ecosystem is a significant challenge. Or we would be able to install
Linux on our devices ourselves.

Its curious these devices work flawlessly with Android but cannot even boot
with Linux. Or if it boots none of the functionality works.

The drivers are there and they work on 'Linux' just fine but somehow they are
never available on Linux. Folks here get worked up about insignificant chinese
companies when this is totally in the control of Arm and Google.

Its now tiring to see open source developers struggle incessantly to get
information from ARM for over 5 years and the ball is kicked from ARM to the
OEM both claiming the other has denied permission and this goes on. There are
always promises and excuses but never any results.

------
edent
The problem is, Ubuntu is _completely_ unsuitable for a mobile phone or
tablet.

I bought one last year and had to return it because it was functionally
unusable - [https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/05/the-ubuntu-tablet-a-
review-...](https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/05/the-ubuntu-tablet-a-review-of-
the-aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition/)

The OS doesn't support modern features like multi-touch, many apps require a
physical keyboard, it can't connect reliably to Bluetooth devices, app
switching doesn't work - even icons are missing from certain apps!

There's no app store to speak of, just a small collection of apps which
haven't received even rudimentary testing. That's before we even get to the
lack of "killer" apps like Angry Birds, Dropbox, Spotify.

> Carriers are also interested in this flexibility.

No, they aren't. I've just finished 10 years in European telcos - they don't
care about flexibility. They care about profit margin and making sure that
people don't ring call centres to complain about broken hardware.

My old employer (O2) sells a bunch of Cyanogen based Android devices - because
the cost is right and the services are good enough. Ubuntu isn't even close to
competing with that yet.

> Some they may provide themselves and some by well known providers; but by
> not being able to select options for those base services they have less
> flexibility on what they can do.

This is factually incorrect. Providers (in the UK at least) are able to bundle
services and apps with iPhones, Android, Windows Phone. I've worked with
handset manufacturers to add DropBox, replace DropBox with something else,
have apps preinstalled, remove bloatware - and everything in-between.

> So that effectively makes it difficult for the carriers as well as alternate
> service providers (e.g. Dropbox, Spotify, etc) to compete.

Again, that's not really true. Dropbox has a multi-million dollar marketing
budget. If your new service can pay an operator €10 per customer - guess what
- they'll push you to the front of the user's home screen.

> I think that Ubuntu Phone has the fundamental DNA to win in this race.

I don't. I've installed Ubuntu on my MacBooks, my laptops, my servers, and my
TV's media box. It's a brilliant OS. But it doesn't work on touchscreens. It
cannot meet the efficiency demands of small battery devices. It has no
alternative services which even come close to what's on the market.

I love Ubuntu - but I wouldn't let it near any of my phones.

~~~
soneil
I had pretty much exactly the same experience with Ubuntu Touch (but on an
Aquaris phone). All in all I found the window manager a frustrating and
horrible experience.

But the one "killer app" I really missed was email. There's precisely one
native app, and it fails to load subfolders in imap.

A "free" OS feels like a petty distinction when the only (usable) applications
are wrappers for mobile sites.

~~~
collyw
I have one, but the screen cracked a month or two back, so now back onto
Android.

I actually found the Ubuntu interface a lot nicer to navigate than Android,
but there is a serious lack of apps for it. The GPS was next to useless
compared to Android (not sure if my model had a problem, but it took forever
to get a lock, on Android its almost instant). The other big downside for me
was traveling. Almost all of the apps were web based so maps wouldn't even
load without an internet connection. Pretty useless when I was in the South of
Chile and just wanted to check the street map of a small town we were in.

Android does feel way ahead of the Ubuntu phone now. Though it acts like an
attention seeking child a lot of the time. I am getting notifications from
Google plus, despite the fact I barely ever log into it. Beeps here beeps
there always wanting my attention. From web sites I have browsed but refused
to install the app as well. At least the GPS is useful now, as its one of the
few things I actually find useful on a phone.

------
vegabook
But I can't actually buy an Ubuntu phone anymore. And I want to because I lost
me aquaris E5. This is not a good situation even for the most committed and
patient early adopters (like me).

~~~
slitaz
Have a look at the Fairphone 2. It is on preorder and can get the Ubuntu
veraion.

------
heheocoenev
I own a Ubuntu phone, Aquaris E4.5, imported from Spain via a EU dropshipper.
Wouldn't use it as my daily phone until it supported full disk encryption.

------
Steveoz5
Many comments same/similar to "I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot
find it anywhere."

Well, I got tired of waiting, so I bought a NEW Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme Edition)
and installed Ubuntu.

Works great. New phone, with warranty, running Ubuntu.

What's more, the Pro 5 runs a Exynos 7420 (ARMv8-A) so is likely to run the
Xenial based snap image when released by Canonical.

------
jasonvorhe
Reading this I'm totally confused what he's talking about: On Android,
Telegram is miles ahead of Hangouts & Allo in terms of UX, feature support and
performance, while Google Drive feels like a completely wasted opportunity for
a storage service by Google on their own platform. Hangouts even ships being
disabled per default on their flagship Pixel phones. Instead of growing the
amount of apps OEMs need to preinstall to get access to the Play Store, they
reduce it, year by year. Even after all these years Android is still designed
to be an OS where every company could offer Google-like services and integrate
them like Google does.

I'd be surprised if the author actually used an Android device in the last
years.

------
quanticle

        The biggest strength and weakness of Ubuntu Phone is that it's a device
        without an intrinsic set of services. If you buy an Android device, you get
        Google Services. If you buy an iPhone, you get Apple services.
    

What he's missing is that the device is pretty much useless without the
services. The services are as necessary to the functionality of the device as
say, filesystem drivers are on an operating system. Yes, it's possible to have
an operating system without filesystem drivers, but it's not going to be very
useful to your average consumer. Similarly, it's possible to have a smartphone
without location services, or push notifications, but it's not going to be
very useful.

    
    
        While these can be strengths (at least in Google's case) they are 
        effectively a lock in to services that may or may not meet your
        requirements.  You certainly can get Telegram or Signal for either of those, 
        but they're never going to be as integrated as Hangouts or iMessage. This 
        goes throughout the device including things like music and storage as well.
    

I don't know what he means with regards to "storage" (cloud storage, perhaps?)
but when it comes to messaging, I find that Telegram actually makes a better
text messaging application than Hangouts. The UI is easier, it's easier to
scan through archived messages, and it's faster. That's leaving aside the
obvious privacy improvements that Telegram brings over Hangouts. Similarly, I
find that Spotify does a better job of handling music on Android than Google
Play Music. It has better integration with its desktop client, better sync,
and it doesn't lose its network connection when switching from wifi to LTE.

Android already has the strengths and disadvantages of Ubuntu Phone (mostly
thanks to Google's incompetence). I'm not sure what Ubuntu Phone brings to the
table that would make it better than Android. Right now, it appears to be an
OS like Android with many fewer apps, and even more headaches when it comes to
cloud services.

~~~
jasonkostempski
If they're trying to target the same customers that buy Apple and Android for
the services and all the other skin-deep beauty, I think they're going to fail
for sure. Hopefully, there's enough people that just want a general purpose
computer with and open source operating system that just happens to include
cellular internet connection (bonuses for me would be a a hardware keyboard,
is at a size that actually fits in your pocket and has a hard switch to
disconnect it from the network). I would also gladly pay more, even with the
inconveniences that might come with such a device. I hope they target
something like that and there are enough people that want it.

~~~
quanticle

        Hopefully, there's enough people that just want a general purpose computer 
        with and open source operating system that just happens to include cellular 
        internet connection (bonuses for me would be a a hardware keyboard, is at a 
        size that actually fits in your pocket and has a hard switch to disconnect 
        it from the network)
    

There aren't. I'm sorry, but the number of people who actually truly _care_
about "general purpose computing" and privacy just isn't high enough to form a
viable market segment for any but the most specialized of hardware vendors. If
it were not the case, we'd have seen a lot more phones with truly open
hardware and software stacks.

That said, if you're willing to relax the "pocketability" requirement, a
laptop running GNU/Linux and tethered to your phone fulfills every other
requirement.

(PS: What is it with the "hardware keyboard" requirement? It's not like you're
going to be writing the next great American novel on your phone. For text
messaging and short e-mails what difference does it make?)

~~~
jasonkostempski
"What is it with the hardware keyboard"

Just typing in a simple search with any words that don't autocomplete is
excruciating. URLs, user names, passwords, anything that isn't a dictionary
word, are impossible to type. The only things touchscreen is good for is
infrequent single taps, panning and zooming.

------
akjainaj
>Another good answer is all the benefits of Free Software, but many of those
are benefits the general public doesn’t yet realize they need.

So if they don't agree those benefits are needed, it's because they are
wrong/inexperienced/misled/stupid/...?

You think people should care about privacy and "openness of the software",
whatever that is (most people can't code, so they rightfully don't care about
the availability of the source code of the OS or apps).

What most people (including myself) care about, instead, is ease of use and
reliability. You'll never catch up with the ease of use and reliability of iOS
(not even Android can, and then not even Microsoft could catch up with
Android), that's why Firefox OS failed and your mobile OS will fail as well.

~~~
Brakenshire
> You think people should care about privacy and "openness of the software",
> whatever that is (most people can't code, so they rightfully don't care
> about the availability of the source code of the OS or apps). What most
> people (including myself) care about, instead, is ease of use and
> reliability.

If you talk to inexperienced computer users, probably the most common
complaint you will get is that software they are using is being changed
underneath them, after they have got used to it. You could turn around your
argument 180 degrees, and still be equally valid in saying that it the walled
garden 'we will do what is best for you' attitude is actually about saying
that users "don't agree those benefits are needed, because they are
wrong/inexperienced/misled/stupid/...?"

~~~
akjainaj
>If you talk to inexperienced computer users, probably the most common
complaint you will get is that software they are using is being changed
underneath them, after they have got used to it.

Open source projects do that all the time too. Think of GNOME 2 -> 3, and
compare it to iOS 6 -> 7.

>the walled garden 'we will do what is best for you' attitude

If we take Apple as an example, their attitude is "we will do what makes us
sell more", which aligns with what users will want the software to do,
otherwise they lose a sale. On the other hand since nobody uses Ubuntu Phone,
Canonical will do whatever they want with it, knowing they'll get almost no
complains. So which one serves the user better?

~~~
FatalBaboon
Yes, that is why Apple released the new MBP, with a touchbar perfectly aligned
with what users desperately wanted.

~~~
rimantas
Those who complsin the most don not really want anything except to rant—that's
the cheapest way for them to appear smart.

------
opless
"What I find most interesting thing about this discussion is that it is the
original reason that Google bought Android. They were concerned that with
Apple controlling the smartphone market they’d be in a position to damage
Google’s ability to compete in services"

Google bought android in 2005. Apple release iPhone in 2007.

Do what now?

I'd love a truly linux-based phone. Though it's unlikely that you'll ever get
"root" on a commercial offering. Mobile phone providers don't like you being
able to monkey about with the phone too much.

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ClassyJacket
Rumours of Apple making a smartphone were strong for years before they
actually announced one.

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opless
They only started _working_ on a phone in 2005 according to the wiki page.

Yes, there were rumours for years ... ever since the Newton.

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rimantas
IIRC first prototypes were made in 2004 and were more iPads than iPhones

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LostWanderer
I also liked the concept of Firefox basic phone.. It was interesting to have
smart features in a feature phone

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sreenadh
What we really need is a good device. A device with proper open standards so
that we can install Ubuntu or Jolla or Cyanogenmod or any other future OSs. We
can get some standard devices by some OEMs.

