
New York to bar sex offenders on parole from playing Pokemon Go - jastr
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nintendo-pokemon-new-york-idUSKCN10C2Z1
======
jimmywanger
You need to think about differing motivations.

Right now politicians are thinking, "Hey there's this new thing that's
popular. How do we cash in on that?"

Pedophiles and child molesters are easy targets. In the sense that all you
need to do is say those scary words and you get more votes.

They're pandering to the population.

~~~
spacemanmatt
We already have loads of regulations on where people who have paid their debts
to society can be. I think you're right about this. Straight-up pandering.

~~~
mikeash
People on parole are still paying their debts to society.

~~~
Retric
Increasing someone's burden after sentencing is incredibly sketchy behavior
and detrimental to the rule of law. Parole is not a _punishment_ it's
monitoring for legal behavior.

~~~
mikeash
These people could be locked up in a cage instead. Putting them on parole at
all is _decreasing_ their burden compared to their original sentence, and
adding a restriction to that is still way better than what they were sentenced
to.

~~~
Retric
This is retroactive to people already on parole.

Some of these people where caught urinating in public or other non issues.
There are also very sick people, but remember your applying this to a huge
range of innocent people not just the kind of demons you see on TV.

PS: I have seen estimates as low as 50:50 for actually committing _every_
crime they where convicted of.

~~~
mikeash
The issue where people can be convicted for these crimes for public urination
and similar is extremely important, but also completely separate. People like
that shouldn't be on parole in the first place. Considering that they're
probably being jailed, complaining about a Pokemon Go restriction because some
of the targeted people may have committed a minor crime doesn't make any sense
to me.

It's like saying that we shouldn't restrict prisoners' phone calls, because
that's unfair to the wrongly convicted. It's technically true, but being
wrongly convicted in the first place is far more important.

~~~
Retric
Just to add, the innocent people in prison is an important factor. For example
it's a bad idea to simply execute people on death row right now. We have
already released 20 people on death row we realized where innocent, how many
more are wrongfully convicted?

~~~
mikeash
That's because execution is irreversible. Are there any examples of taking
innocence into account when it comes to reversible punishments?

~~~
Retric
> execution is irreversible

So is prison. Lock someone up for 20 years and they never get that time back.

Parole is actually used as reversible punishment in the other direction. Stay
clean and your free to go, do even minor things and your instantly in prison.
First offence leniency has a similar rational.

~~~
mikeash
I tend to agree with you, but that's not how the system works. Whether or not
prison is actually reversible, it's treated as though it were, by releasing
and possibly compensating innocents.

------
morgante
> The game may also pose special risks to children as it encourages players to
> explore physical locations to win points.

Oh the horror of children exploring the physical world. They're not safe
unless kept inside!

~~~
Someone1234
You joke, but parents that do let their kids walk down to the park[0] or play
outside[1] get a social services investigation.

[0] [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-
again...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-again-in-
spotlight-after-police-pick-up-
kids-6-and-10/2015/04/13/30e2a2f4-e1f1-11e4-81ea-0649268f729e_story.html?tid=a_inl)

[1] [http://www.freerangekids.com/kids-play-in-backyard-while-
mom...](http://www.freerangekids.com/kids-play-in-backyard-while-mom-does-
dishes-an-investigation-ensues/)

~~~
goodJobWalrus
> A Winnipeg mom was doing the dishes while her three kids, 10, 5 and 2 ,
> played in their fenced-in backyard. A neighbor called to report “unattended”
> kids frolicking and Jacqui Kendrick was visited by a child protective
> services rep. The rep asked questions about what Jacqui’s own childhood was
> like, how she punished her kids, and where they slept. She even looked in
> Jacqui’s fridge.

Oh crap, I thought Canada was better.

~~~
goda90
I wonder if reporting something like that is more of a spite thing than actual
concern. Could the neighbor be annoyed with the children's volume? Did she do
some unrelated thing that bothered them and this is revenge?

Who in their right mind thinks that kids playing in a fenced backyard are in
danger?

~~~
goodJobWalrus
I wonder whether she actually used the word "frolicking" when reporting. I
mean, imagine calling the police b/c someone is frolicking.

~~~
_asummers
"Yes officer, I'd like to report a suspicious frolic! It's like they're in
some sort of jamboree."

------
Smushman
Could be hard to implement this, checking the density of offenders in the
area.

[http://www.familywatchdog.us/showmap.asp](http://www.familywatchdog.us/showmap.asp)

Search Criteria: New York, United States

If I could link it directly I would.

I am all for keeping kids safe; but this seems to have unintended knockoff
effects, such as forcing children who want to play Pokemon Go to venture
multiple blocks from their homes in order to play.

~~~
choward
> Could be hard to implement this

That hasn't stopped anyone from implementing laws before. These kinds of laws
are favorites for those in power. Now they have another tool for keeping them
in power. Someone challenges a politician and they get upset? That's okay,
just spy on them more. You'll be sure to find some kind of law they are
breaking.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Just check out Florida, which basically has a city for convicted sex
offenders, because it's the only place they can legally live.

[http://time.com/3705637/life-inside-a-community-of-sex-
offen...](http://time.com/3705637/life-inside-a-community-of-sex-offenders/)

[http://www.gq.com/story/sex-offender-community](http://www.gq.com/story/sex-
offender-community)

------
fl0wenol
So if I buy (or farm) a lure module and place it on a Pokestop, this is the
same thing as if I spray painted "Free Puppies" on the side of a panel van and
drove it in front of a school? Because I think that's the bottom line from the
DA's office.

------
sotojuan
Apparently many hospitals have also requested Pokestops in them to be removed,
making the game unplayable for sick kids in their beds.

[https://redd.it/4vykt7](https://redd.it/4vykt7)

~~~
6stringmerc
While I think sick kids should be allowed entertainment (I know how much it
helped me, books, games, etc), the nature of Pokemon Go is sort of like
bemoaning that a kid's wing doesn't have a basketball court either. Basically
while I'm kidding I don't think it's a good thing to get their hopes up about
playing when they're undergoing treatment. If it gets worked so they can, all
the better (like a small outing for those able?), just kind of spit balling.

~~~
cableshaft
My girlfriend has been mostly stuck in bed as she waits for a broken leg to
heal. Hasn't stopped her from playing the hell out of Pokemon Go. Granted some
of it is me driving her around town, but she still plays it a lot in bed with
incense items to draw Pokemon in.

Also when we went on vacation two weeks ago she had a great time at night
since there was two pokestops within range from our bed. We just added lures
and it was quite fun. A gym was just a little ways down the hall, too, so I
walked her phone down the hall to get her into the gym (my Pokemon were too
low-powered still).

This article about people wanting and doing their best to play the game while
having physical disabilities seems pertinent: [http://kotaku.com/pokemon-go-
is-depressing-for-fans-with-phy...](http://kotaku.com/pokemon-go-is-
depressing-for-fans-with-physical-disabil-1783603654)

I say let hospitalized kids have as much fun with it as they can. If it's not
good enough from their bed, then let them decide to play something else, but
don't decide for them.

~~~
6stringmerc
Fair points and all, but my experiences are a lot different than a broken leg
- usually involving IVs, lots of pain, and needing to get rest to recover from
/ for PT. In honesty I don't know how the game mechanics work because I'm
completely disinterested in joining in, preferring to spend my time in
creative endeavors and/or getting into/out of trouble. Different strokes 'n
all, hope your girlfriend's recovery goes well and good on you for chipping in
on the entertainment & emotional support front for real!

------
CPLX
Every once and awhile you see something to remind you that this country was
founded by puritans, not all that long ago.

~~~
larsiusprime
And Quakers, and Cavaliers, and Borderers, and a bunch of other diverse groups
that had little to nothing to do with the Puritans and their ideology. Not to
mention all the groups that came before and after.

------
__abc
What? This has to be redundant as most existing laws prevent a convicted
individual of being within certain distances of children, school zones, etc.

~~~
jdavis703
Or from even being on the Internet. While I'm no rape apologist, even someone
who committed a sex crime against an adult in this case would be banned. Sure
punish people up to the max book provides. But once you've done your time, you
should be able to reenter society (perhaps excluding the place(s) you
committed your specific crimes).

~~~
maxerickson
Someone on parole would be receiving a punishment less than the max the book
provides.

Managed release is a lot less problematic than lifetime registries.

~~~
thaumasiotes
I find the logic of this perspective difficult to understand.

You've got a group of people, and an activity that you think it is potentially
dangerous for these people to participate in. So you want to make sure they
don't participate while you're supervising them, but that they're free to once
you've stopped?

If you're going to allow them to participate once they're off parole, there is
no case for prohibiting it while they're on parole. If they're going to be a
problem, it's better to catch them at it.

~~~
maxerickson
That's a big part of what incarceration does, it removes freedom for a period
of time. It's kind of a waste if that's all a society manages to accomplish
with it, but there you go.

I can sort of believe that someone who is required to maintain a steady job
for 2 years is more likely to continue participating in society than someone
who has just been released from an institution.

I was also replying rather narrowly to the other post; parole is pretty
clearly a lesser punishment than incarceration, not an addition to it like a
registry. I wasn't endorsing this idea.

------
ars
Notice the "on parole" part. I doubt it would pass legal must ordinarily, but
for parole the state can ask for anything it wants.

So this is pretty much pointless "let's look like we are doing something".

------
sitkack
> The game may also pose special risks to children as it encourages players to
> explore

------
_asummers
This is really dumb. The thing they should be trying to eliminate with this
would be Pokestops at a sex offender's home, but that's on Niantic's end not
the person on the list and requires an up to date registry. Additionally,
though I have not looked at the demographics, I imagine a large part of this
games base is users >18\. The name 'lure' sounds like it could be scary to a
politician that doesn't know how this game works yet is legislating it anyway,
but in fact is not a random map placement, so I'm not even sure what this is
accomplishing.

~~~
krabpaaltje
In the end it might end up where sex offenders will need to move because
there's a pokestop nearby.

------
jimmywanger
If you think about this from a rhetorical perspective, it's incredibly
effective.

My previous comment on this post remarked on the political motivations for
this, I'm expounding a bit.

Basically you're saying "Let's restrict rights for sex offender (an incredibly
loose term but with huge emotional connotations" and no matter what your
political opponent says, you can tar him with being "soft on sex offenders".

If I were a politician, this would be a no-brainer masterstroke. I would do it
in a minute to ensure my re-elections.

I just find it incredibly sleazy.

------
sathackr
Can we get a list of swimming pools and lakes and ensure there are no
pokestops near them as well?

I'm pretty sure far more children drown in bodies of water than are harmed by
sex offenders on parole.

~~~
Fjolsvith
There could be some truth to this. In 2003, the sexual recidivism rate for sex
offenders was only 5.3% over the 3 years following their release.[1]

[1]
[http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch5_recidivism.html](http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch5_recidivism.html)

------
Fjolsvith
I read a lot of comments and think, knee-jerk reaction. Some comments I see
seem to me to be born from ignorance. I really was torn whether I wanted to
speak out regarding this topic, but I decided that maybe the good would
outweigh the bad.

I have been on federal probation and my experience with it is at that level
and not with the state of New York. So, I can only give you my perspective and
opinions regarding the topic.

During my time on supervision, I was initially not allowed to have a smart
phone, nor was I allowed to use the Internet. Over time, as I earned the trust
of my PO, these things were allowed, however with the caveat that my use of
them would be monitored with software running that logged everything. This was
because my crime involved a "misuse" of the Internet. It also was because I
had been locked away from the internet for over 8 years, and that my re-
introduction to it needed to be gradual. The intention was for me to learn to
manage myself for when I would not have someone telling me what I should and
shouldn't do.

I have been off probation for 2-1/2 years now. I just recently tried Pokemon
Go, mainly because I was interested in the business advertising aspect of it,
and didn't find it very engaging for me. I did learn about Ingress, though,
and that game was like crack for me and I finally had to uninstall it.

So, here's my take regarding the game and sex offenders:

Sex offenders tend to not see things or think about things the way normal
people do. They have a 'tilt' or a dis-conjunction to their thinking
processes, that tend to make them susceptible to fantasy thinking. They see
make-believe as reality, and that is partly why they think themselves into
committing their crime(s).

Pokemon Go (and Ingress) represent a form of make-believe that can allow a sex
offender to disconnect from the importance that they have to be very careful
once back in society. Running up to a location while staring at your phone can
put a sex offender into a bad "relapse danger" situation, such as wandering
into a group of children. While the offender may not have any intention of
reoffending, it could be similar to a recovering coke addict walking into a
party where there are lines cut up on the coffee table.

For myself, I think that New York is wise to do this.

------
mikeash
I'm interested but not particularly surprised to see everyone here against
this move.

These people are out on parole. That means that they could be in prison
instead, but the authorities have decided to be nice and let them out early
under supervision. They can be sent back to prison for simple things like
associating with the wrong people, or failing to tell the government about
their movements.

This restriction doesn't seem terribly useful to me, but nor does it seem
particularly onerous.

~~~
lojack
> nor does it seem particularly onerous

I disagree for reasons other than putting a burden on parolees. To me, this is
effort wasted on our legal system in drafting, passing, arguing against, and
ultimately maintaining when its no longer relevant. Additionally it places a
burden on Niantic, and any company that builds similar products, to cross
reference their customer list with the list of NY sex offenders (and
potentially other similar lists of states that follow suit). In my opinion,
any potential payoff from this is so small that it's almost certainly
something we could do without.

~~~
pgodzin
It's also impossible to cross-reference since all you need to play is a Google
account

~~~
mikeash
Sex offenders in New York are required to give the government information
about all of their accounts online, so it would be easy to reference against
that list. I'm sure it's easy to refrain from doing so and not get caught, but
it's something.

~~~
pgodzin
Didn't realize that was part of it. But yea, creating a dummy gmail address
and only use it for Pokemon Go seems extremely easy to do and not get caught.

------
gre
Clickhole just did a piece about Pokemon Go and sex offenders.

[http://www.clickhole.com/article/gaming-safety-ftw-
pokemon-p...](http://www.clickhole.com/article/gaming-safety-ftw-pokemon-
pokemon-go-will-now-scre-4691)

------
Vonkastell
Teach them to jailbreak/root their phone so they can spoof their GPS data and
play without leaving home.

------
likeclockwork
Wouldn't this require players to identify themselves to prove they aren't
paroled sex offenders?

------
choward
Let's say this law does get passed? How do sex offenders learn about it? When
they get arrested?

~~~
hehheh
This law is redundant, so they should already know about the restrictions.

------
jazzyk
_That_ will teach them :-)

------
dloose
Wow, lucky them. What crime do I have to commit to be barred from _hearing
about_ Pokemon Go?

~~~
SerLava
Probably the same crime. You'll be barred from Internet use (and all shall
rejoice).

~~~
dloose
Good effort, but I'm not sure your post makes sense. If I committed the same
crime, wouldn't I get the same punishment? In this case, that's being banned
from playing Pokemon Go, not from the Internet as a whole.

~~~
jMyles
(Stupidly, IMO), many sex offenders in NY are indeed completely banned from
using the Internet.

