
Pain27 keyboard - sodapopcan
https://github.com/uuupah/pain27
======
DavidVoid
If you're interested in getting a tiny keyboard then there are actually quite
a few other "too" small custom keyboards which unlike the one in the OP are
fairly usable. Some examples:

The ortholinear layout Gherkin:
[http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html](http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html)

The THKB - Tiny Hacking Keyboard: [https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/thkb-
tiny-hacking-keyboa...](https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/thkb-tiny-hacking-
keyboard-40-t6455.html)

The split MiniDox:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6rh8mp...](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6rh8mp/my_mini_dox/)

Personally I use a slightly larger 60% HHKB Pro 2 which imo has a great layout
(and fantastic switches!): [https://www.keychatter.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/02/keycha...](https://www.keychatter.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/02/keychatter_2015-02-24_20-59-34.jpg)

~~~
amanzi
How do you manage without arrow keys? I use a Cooler Master "M" sized keyboard
which combines the arrow keys and a number pad. It's the smallest usable
keyboard that works for me:
[http://www.coolermaster.com/peripheral/keyboards/masterkeys-...](http://www.coolermaster.com/peripheral/keyboards/masterkeys-
pro-m-white/)

~~~
Fnoord
What do you use arrow keys for? For example for Vi(m) you can just use hjkl.
For gaming, you can just use wasd.

If you really do need arrow keys, get a keyboard which doesn't have a keypad.

~~~
amanzi
I don't think I have any other reason to use them apart from muscle memory--I
can't live without them now...

~~~
Fnoord
That's a valid _personal_ reason to not want change, and a difficult one to
tackle for alternative keyboard layouts.

Only reason I'd use them is shell (Bash/Fish in my case). In gaming and Vi(m)
I just use the better alternatives which require less movement of the hand.

------
ChuckMcM
Wow, aptly named. Now with a couple of foot pedals, one for shift and one for
control? That could be something.

~~~
vertexFarm
Now to be fair, it would be a little absurd to build the most compact possible
keyboard, yet get stuck carrying around some foot pedals like you're headed to
a lan party with racing games or something.

But sometimes a little absurd is cool when it comes to custom keyboards. I
kind of want to build this or the Gherkin posted above!

~~~
pavel_lishin
I agree, that's ridiculous.

Clearly, a sip/puff/bite controller would be more convenient, both in terms of
compactness and usability.

~~~
hoosieree
Or midi breath control, where you have to modulate your breath pressure to get
shift, alt, alt+shift, control, etc. Surely most people can handle 4 bits of
resolution with their breath power, right?

~~~
trentlott
Suck/blow + hard/soft

------
mds
A video of someone actually building and typing on one of these:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIDs8tq5Pa4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIDs8tq5Pa4)

~~~
faitswulff
This was captivating. Love that he goes through the entire build process and
then at the end says:

> As for the actual usability, it’s terrible. Absolutely terrible. I didn’t
> even try to use it for more than a couple of minutes because I don’t have
> the time. This is purely a display piece, because for anything that isn’t a
> speed typing test, it was just too much to access the other keys.

------
jaffee
If you like this, see [http://www.40percent.club/](http://www.40percent.club/)

In particular:
[http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html](http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html)

~~~
LukeShu
(The Gherkin is a 30%, not a 40%!)

I mean people actually use and enjoy for day-to-day use 40% keyboards like the
Planck. I don't think they Pain27 is to be used by anyone for anything other
than WPM tests.

------
ams6110
Not really too much worse than the old TI-99/4A keyboard.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A#/me...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A#/media/File:TI99-IMG_7132.jpg)

~~~
pm215
Man, the number of times I hit function-= (reset the computer) on that thing
when I meant shift-=... lots of lost unsaved work.

------
Fnoord
The backwards compatibility users require (myself included) holds back
innovation, in so many ways.

The problem with any non-standard keyboard is it being non-standard. The
biggest problem is a different layout than Qwerty (though its a bit more
complex; e.g. Azerty is standard in Belgium, Colemak is only marginally
different from Qwerty, whereas Dvorak is completely different).

If the layout sticks to the defacto standard (Qwerty) then you can argue less
is more. However, there are some minimum needs and once keys have different
positions compared to a dumbed down Qwerty keyboard (without keypad or keypad
+ arrows + the other [6 + 3] keys on the right). It also depends on what
you're used to. Having used the keyboard on Nokia E71 and Nokia N900 and Nokia
N810 I lost a lot of CLI speed just from factors such as: non-standard
keybinds (e.g. requiring combos for standard Bash and Emacs keybinds), non-
standard amount of keys, small keys, with not much travel.

There are many examples mentioned in this thread. Some membrane, some
mechanical, but generally full size keys just without keys such as spacebar,
enter, tab, caps, alt, etc. The only keys which can be removed from a keyboard
without compromising UNIX CLI usage are caps lock and "function" (Windows key
etc). With the notion that caps lock is already rebinded to escape by Vi(m)
users.

------
Aloha
This seems to be the opposite direction of what I like out of keyboards.

I want more keys - keys I can program to do things - not less keys.

~~~
organsnyder
I think (I hope...) this particular keyboard is a satirical commentary on the
shrinking keyboards in the mechanical keyboard community. I do agree with you,
though—I don't understand the trend toward less keys.

~~~
chipotle_coyote
+1, this.

Semi-seriously, I appreciate the Pain27 as an art/hacking project and having a
bit of fun with the "less keys are always better," but I don't understand the
value of making desktop keyboards -- that is, ones that aren't intended to be
portable -- ever more "compact." Removing the number keypad makes sense if you
don't use it, and if you keep your mouse/trackpad on the right side of your
keyboard. But I use the navigation keys pretty regularly; I don't use the
function keys that often, but use them often enough that I notice when they're
not there. And if portability is the actual concern, well, you probably want
something thinner than most mechanical keyboards unless you're _really_
dedicated. I just ordered another mechanical myself (a KBParadise V80 with
Matias Quiet Click switches) so I could have one at work and one at home,
which I suspect qualifies me as dedicated -- but for a keyboard I'm actually
carrying around with me in a bag, I'll take Apple's Magic Keyboard or
something from Logitech of comparable size and weight, thanks.

So, 60%-and-below keyboard nerds: what is it I'm missing?

~~~
function_seven
I have a 60% (I think. Not sure how the percentages are figured). It's also
ortholinear, and it gave me a chance to reinvent the layout and what keys
should appear.
([https://i.imgur.com/9F0k3zv.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9F0k3zv.jpg), and
[https://imgur.com/yMdkEnP.jpg](https://imgur.com/yMdkEnP.jpg))

I ditched the number pad, the function keys, and the navigation cluster. That
freed up room to separate the two halves of the keyboard and put a bunch of
symbols in the center.

I've always wanted to use hjkl as my arrow keys anyway, now I can do that.
Function keys used to be a stretch to get to, and I could never touch type
them. Now I can.

My next plan is to add another row across the top for macros, and a few more
columns in the center to separate my hands even more. The end result will be a
keyboard that's almost as large as a standard one, but with no useless crap
hanging off the right side :)

------
kugestu
I really believe the term "open source" should be avoided if the project is
not under an real open source licence:
[https://opensource.org/osd](https://opensource.org/osd)

E.g. this uses a "Creative Commons BY-NC-ND" license which contains:
"NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may
not distribute the modified material". So it restricts some rights that one
would usually expect from an "open source" project, which can be confusing
([https://opensource.org/faq#avoid-unapproved-
licenses](https://opensource.org/faq#avoid-unapproved-licenses))

Cool project otherwise!

------
kevinmgranger
> an easily usable, yet ... utterly unusable

I love it.

------
glitchc
Why?

~~~
fredley
Because if you want a nice functional keyboard you can just buy one.

Making this deliberately useless keyboard prevents it from ever being a
primarily functional item. This allows you to treat the project entirely as a
creative endeavor, and not end up falling down rabbit holes that might
otherwise prevent you from completing or enjoying it.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _This allows you to treat the project entirely as a creative endeavor, and
> not end up falling down rabbit holes that might otherwise prevent you from
> completing or enjoying it._

Watch me!

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Animats
A keyboard with only letters, numbers, and space only has its uses. You can
still fill out forms. Some kiosks have keyboards like that.

------
SideburnsOfDoom
They don't really say what causes the pain part, which seems a major
oversight. I assume it's nothing but sheer tiny size?

Maybe you could tap at it with some kind of pointed thimble on the finger.

------
notananthem
I like the JD45/JD40 which I use daily, this is annoying

------
WalterGR
Do “open” keyboard designs for more traditional keyboards exist?

------
miguelrochefort
Why do all keyboard projects use staggered keys? This is asymmetric, more
complicated, and less ergonomic.

The space bar where both thumbs perform the same action is also ridiculous.

~~~
d4l3k
There's a ton of keyboards that have ortholinear or ergonomic layouts. Some
people just like the aesthetics of staggered keys over the alternatives.

~~~
miguelrochefort
I'm pretty sure these people aren't aware that ortholinear keyboards exist, or
know that they're a better design.

