

Why I'm investing in Windows Phone and skipping Android - slig
http://blog.cubeofm.com/why-im-investing-in-windows-phone-and-skippin

======
buster
This blog post is sooo bad and uninformed, it's hard to believe he is making
money with mobile software.

So, to his points:

Google does not care about me. Google does not give me any mode of getting in
contact with them. With both Apple and Microsoft, I have access to their
developers

Mh, what? Freenode irc channels, google code open issue trackers? a LOT of
forums and blogposts to learn from? Official "support" on stackoverflow and
mailinglists? Last time i checked finding iPhone dev information was rather
hard due to NDA stuff (i was told that this is changing/has changed). To find
people to talk to (even from google) is really not hard. Apparently the blog
poster didn't even try the least bit.

Google does not seem to want anyone to make money on their platform. They just
put their platform out there, and say : do what you want with it. There is no
attempt to actually make people make money

What does this mean?! Put it in the android market, get paid with google
checkout or put ads in your app with admob. "They just put it out there" is
exactly the nice thing, especially for a developer. You can take a look at the
whole source, you have everything you need!

Android as a user device is horrible. It's jerky, slow you have random
flashes, and it's totally uninnovative compared to the iPhone. There is
absolutely nothing new there.

"Totally uninnovative"? What? The first phones (i owned the G1) were rather
slow due to slow hardware, sure. Current Hardware (Droid & Nexus One) is fast
and responsive, no doubt about that. I'd rate the Nexus One on par with the
iphone (and most iPhone users i have met agree).

All in all, the blog post starts with heavy trolling... and i shouldn't even
respond to that.. :/

~~~
colinplamondon
All that support stuff is great for hobbyists, but completely unacceptable for
businesses. With Apple and Microsoft you get incident support. If something
comes up, you email them your project, they dig into the source, and they tell
you what's going on at the code level. The iPhone Developer Program gives you
two code-level incident supports, and the ones after that are absurdly cheap.
Microsoft also gives you a phone option.

This is how real business support works, not forums and mailing lists. The
latter is cool, but you also need the latter to have a serious platform.

~~~
Tichy
Yeah, we have all heard the stories about the great support iPhone developers
get, if their app is rejected for the app store.

If that is professional business, I prefer to stay independent. Actually, all
the pain just might be a deliberate barrier to entry for "small fish".
Companies are used to dealing with pain, individuals less so.

~~~
colinplamondon
As a professional iPhone developer with a multiple top ranking apps, that shit
just doesn't really happen anymore. You're much more likely to get a call from
Apple with suggestions on what to edit.

The horror stories are from 6-9 months ago, and are outdated. So, while folks
trot them out in threads like this as examples of how terrible iPhone
development is, actual iPhone developers know that it doesn't really come up.

Our last two updates were accepted within 24 hours, for instance. Our last new
application took three submits, due to issues on our end- every email from
them was helpful, and actually IMPROVED the final application. Turnaround was
48 hours, and, on the last submission, they expedited to same-day when I asked
them to.

~~~
matwood
I have an app (nowhere near top ranking tho) and I agree with you for the most
part. My first submission took 2 days and any updates have taken less than 24
hours. One took less than 6 hours for them to turn it around and get it on the
app store.

My only issue with the app store now is the returns. I have had 1 return and
all I got from Apple was the form letter that if you have a lot of returns it
might be a quality issue. What I would like to see is at least the
questionnaire the customer fills out in order for Apple to grant the return.
At least this way I can know if it's some sort of serious problem or just
someone who made a purchase by mistake.

------
swombat
Interesting but risky point. What if the new Windows Mobile flops due to
critical problems much like the other Windows Mobiles?

Android at least is already gathering momentum, despite all its issues. It's
nice that Microsoft cares, but you won't get rich selling to the 3 people who
decided to buy a Microsoft phone.

You say "They care about how polished the outside looks, how thin it is, and
how smooth and fast the user interface is."

People also care about how easy it is to do whatever they're trying to do. And
this combination, smooth, fast, and easy, is really hard to achieve. I'm not
entirely convinced Microsoft is still up to it, though I'll be glad to be
surprised.

~~~
ErrantX
_People also care about how easy it is to do whatever they're trying to do.
And this combination, smooth, fast, and easy, is really hard to achieve. I'm
not entirely convinced Microsoft is still up to it, though I'll be glad to be
surprised._

I think Microsoft may stand an outside chance; they are already going in the
right direction with recent UI/UX changes in Windows. They've always got that
it should be slick but usable; their major problems (in the past) have been in
realizing that slick on a desktop != slick on a phone...

~~~
mlinsey
The most serious problem with previous versions of Windows Mobile isn't the
myriad UI issues (which are collectively definitely a close second), it's the
stability of the core OS. Every last person I know who has owned a WinMo phone
(which is admittedly still not very many people, so sample size warning!) has
complained about how frequently they have to reboot their phone. This is
particularly egregious when the phone crashes as it sits idly in your pocket,
causing you to miss incoming calls until you take out your phone and realize
what has happened.

In order for Windows Phone 7 to succeed where Windows Mobile failed, they need
to revamp the internals of the OS just as drastically as they have revamped
their UI. It's definitely possible that they have done it; clearly Microsoft
cares a lot about this release and clearly some major parts of the underlying
OS are changing. But I personally would not bet months of development time on
it until someone outside MS gets the chance to use the phones in a non-demo
environment.

------
minouye
As an Android user for the past several months there is not a single app that
would compel me to stay on the platform.

I've been patiently waiting for the Android Market to start filling up with
polished apps, fun games, and tools to help me at work. Unfortunately, I'm
several months in and the best-selling games are Bejeweled knock-offs, and a
$3.99 version of Doodle Jump. I didn't make my choice of phone platform based
upon game selection, but it definitely seems that iPhone developers are
focused on building businesses and making money, while Android developers are
mainly hobbyists, tinkering on niche projects.

To the author's point, if the existing .NET development community can leap-
frog Android in terms of app output and app quality, then they would make a
believer out of me.

~~~
Tichy
I agree there are not many nice games. Didn't miss many other things, but I am
not much of an app collector.

However, the lack of quality apps is motivating me as a developer. How am I
supposed to compete on the iPhone, if there are a gazillion apps that are
polished bordering on cheesiness? Seems to me on Android there are more
opportunities for me.

------
rimantas

      Microsoft has seen what Apple and others have done,
      and have made something along the same line,
      but daring and new.
    

Daring and new is fine, but in this case daring and new is not enought, it
must be useable too. Too many copycats failed for the very simple reason:
copying the superficial aspects and having no idea about the essence why the
things they copy work in the first place.

    
    
      Microsoft is investing in the right type of
      future oriented technologies
    

I'd say that one of the killer apps for iPhone is Mobile Safari. Why one
cannot argue about MS effort, sorry, but anything they can put on the device
won't stand a chance compared to WebKit browsers.

    
    
      Microsoft has a huge marketing and development budget
      to push anything they want
    

That may be the problem, not a solution. Thinking that marketing can fix a bad
product, or thinking that innovation is proportional to money thrown on the
problem. Usually it is the other way around: restrictions sprak innovation.

    
    
      Microsoft has integrated its programming languages across all platforms,
      implying a huge number of devs will program for their platforms
    

This is two sided also. Brought back memories of Win shareware.

------
whalesalad
He makes a _really_ good argument. I agree with most of his points, especially
this:

 _Technology people tend to vastly overestimate the things that people look at
when deciding if a phone is good or not. They care about how polished the
outside looks, how thin it is, and how smooth and fast the user interface is.
There is really not much more! They don't care about multi-tasking or open
source or any of that stuff - they care about how impressed other people are
when they look at them using the phone._

I started with a MyTouch and moved to a Nexus One (which I have now). The more
I use Android, the less appealing it becomes. Honestly... who cares that it's
open source? It's a novelty. The AOSP stuff for 2.1 has been out forever, yet
the only device to be using it is the Nexus. The fragmentation is killing it.
I think a lot of Apple's success with the iPhone comes from a lot of it's
restraints.

In the long run I still think Apple is always going to have the upper hand..
not only because it was first in this new generation of smartphones, but
because they control every aspect of the device. OS, Hardware, Applications
and App Store.

I wasn't even considering the Windows phone... but now it's definitely in the
back of my mind.

------
gizmo
I want to like the new Windows Phone interface, but I hate it. I want to like
it because I want there to be competition to the iPhone and Android is so...
crummy. Android phones are _still_ unresponsive, clunky, unpolished and
just... bad.

Take a look at the Engadged video Max links to. There's no way easy way to
navigate through the Windows Phone. Animations everywhere that take seconds.
Did you notice that opening the address book took 5 seconds? I sure did.
Everything is moving and shifting permanently -- so you'll get nauseous if you
put it on your desk. The web browser? Checkerboard all the way through the
moment you start scrolling, and you can't even zoom in and out before the page
has loaded. And the responsiveness was bad too. Tap on a caption. Wait two
seconds. Tap again. Wait. See animation. Scroll. Urgh.

Note the guy didn't mention anything about 3rd party software. Where are those
apps going to end up? Will you be able to install/uninstall easily? And so on.

I think it's going to flop.

------
tremendo
Completely agree that nerd appeal matters not one bit to end-users. But while
yes, they pay attention to the polish, what they are really after is being
cool. And no cool person I know is going to get caught carrying Microsoft
around while there are iPhones in the world. The Droid is show-off-worthy and
cool too. Microsoft has a steep climb out of its uncool-ness, and I for one,
would not bank on it. But I've been wrong before.

Found it interesting how Android is dissed as something that appeals only to
nerds, which in my mind I kept equating with "developers" and the reasoning
this is bad, while Microsoft's strategy is good is that they focus on
developers, developers, developers.

I like how Max likes being the contrarian, much ala Giles Bowkett, and get
tons of traffic and us commenting on his articles. He's output a good number
just this year and about all of these have made it into HN's home page. He
knows how to get nerds talking, that's for sure.

~~~
tremendo
Man, got carried away talking about cool that forgot about my other thought.
Any iPhone-competing device will need manufacturers and the carriers to push
it. Android has that going already. Surely Microsoft will get plenty phones
out there in time, but will it be soon enough and at a competitive price
point? we'll see I guess.

------
fierarul
The blogpost seems a bit too praising towards Microsoft for my taste. But
there is one bullet point missing there:

* Microsoft guys are desperate they will lose the mobile market for iPhone on the upper-end and Android on the lower-end so they will throw as much money at the problem to get into the spotlights again.

Of course this won't help them much since all the 3 companies involved (Apple,
Google and Microsoft) have tons of cash.

The rest of the arguments are also debatable.

------
thibaut_barrere
I think he has a point in that I pretty much have the impression that windows
phone and iphone users will be more likely to spend a dime on something, as
compared to android users I know :)

~~~
maxklein
I think that the Windows Phone market (>30 crowd) are a great market. They
have money, small amounts don't matter to them, they are not so jaded and have
not already seen everything on reddit. They also are not aware that they can
do a lot of the things they buy for free on some website.

That's the problem with Android - it targets the nerd market, which is the
worst market to sell software to.

~~~
thibaut_barrere
> They also are not aware that they can do a lot of the things they buy for
> free on some website.

Or alternatively (in my case) they know a free alternative exist, but they are
ok to pay on a paid version if it saves them some time to be spent with their
friends, kids, hobbies or sideprojects.

------
benwalther
Apple won this round because they already had access to people's pocketbooks
through existing iTunes users.

It will take years (5?) for any other company to build up a marketplace like
iTunes. Honestly, Amazon or eBay could out-compete Google or Microsoft in this
area right now, because they have regular paying customers. Hell, Amazon
already has some experience with mobile devices (Kindle).

------
felixmar
The downside of Windows Phone 7 is that it is the most limiting and sandboxed
development platform of all mobile operating systems. No native code execution
like Android, no multitasking, no direct access to the camera, no sockets
support and more. Even Silverlight has less restrictions.

~~~
sadiq
Android has native code execution via the NDK:

<http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html>

~~~
felixmar
My mistake, i meant to write "No native code execution support like Android
has".

------
alexro
This trend is for real, I know people who preferred Windows Mobile to iphone
recently.

------
Tichy
Was he paid by MS to write that (Microsoft cares that he makes money - in more
then one way)?

~~~
maxklein
If this were about Apple, I don't think anyone would even think that the
person were being paid. No, Microsoft did not pay me, just the same as Google
did not way me to write my article about Google Wave.

~~~
Tichy
It's just that it sounded very one-sided in a very weird way. For example
pointing to the countless .NET developers. There are countless Java
developers, too. Same with the "they'll throw money at it to make it
successful" - so will Apple and Google.

Many of the other points are mostly a matter of taste, I suppose.

Why does Microsoft care that you earn money?

Good luck with Windows Mobile!

Edit: I just remembered another thing - smart people can rationalize
everything. Maybe you are just trying to rationalize your decision for
yourself, that is why it sounds a bit weird to the outside.

~~~
maxklein
Obviously, deluding myself into believing what I want to believe is a big
problem that we all face. But I'm well aware of this, and I've factored it in
into my decision. I'm here for the money, not for any misguided loyalty to
open or free software or any company. It appears to me that Microsoft is going
to do the right thing. It has the prerequisites for this.

------
zitterbewegung
Thinly veiled advertisement from microsoft?

~~~
swombat
Max Klein (author of this blog) is a regular HN member with some 5000 karma
and many insightful comments.

~~~
ErrantX
Thinly veiled advertisement from maxklein?

(sorry couldn't resist :))

~~~
maxklein
I funnelled some of the cash I received from Microsoft to swombat. Win, win
situation.

------
DanielBMarkham
I don't know about the article, but if I click on another HN article and end
up on a page with Posterous trying to get me to sign up? I'm going to go
running screaming into the night.

A few times was okay, guys. I get it. Everybody has to advertise. After about
10 or 20, if I haven't signed-up, I'm not going to.

~~~
maxklein
Screenshot? If posterous is intruding on the reading experience of my users
I'm going to change it.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Just tried it again from FF and got it. Trying it a second time from Chrome
did not bring up the error.

I'll email you the image.

It says it can't find the link, and I get sent to the posterous splash page.

Interestingly enough, it looks like every other page request I send to
posterous today from this browser will be honored. But if I switch to a new
browser and go to click on a blog that's hosted on posterous, back I go to
their "can't find the link and wouldn't you like to start using our service!"
page.

Perhaps it's just a bug. But it's a bug that acts exactly like somebody
continuously trying to get me to start using something I do not want to use.
So whether it's intentional or not, it's annoying as hell.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
As a follow, in case any of the posterous guys are listening, Max and I played
around a bit and could not replicate the error.

My current guess -- it's not my problem so all I have is a guess -- is that
under heavy load, posterous fails to resolve the blog name and instead takes
new users to the splash page. This may be a scaling problem, or it could be
random pestering. From a user's standpoint, it looks a lot like pestering.

