
Chess is taking over the online video game streaming world and it will change - searchableguy
https://theconversation.com/chess-is-taking-over-the-online-video-game-world-and-both-are-changing-from-this-unlikely-pairing-143790
======
OG_BME
Chess-related software is certainly booming as well. My favorite recent
addition is OpeningTree[0], a platform that lets you input anyone's Lichess or
chess.com username and load a tree of their opening moves. I play in the
Lichess4545[1] league and its an incredible tool.

My contributions to the chess community are much smaller. I wrote
u/relevant_post_bot[2] for /r/anarchychess and stylochess[3] in an attempt to
solve the identity of mysterious super grandmasters[4].

[0] [https://www.openingtree.com](https://www.openingtree.com)

[1]
[https://www.lichess4545.com/team4545/](https://www.lichess4545.com/team4545/)

[2] [https://github.com/fmhall/relevant-post-
bot](https://github.com/fmhall/relevant-post-bot)

[3]
[https://github.com/fmhall/stylochess](https://github.com/fmhall/stylochess)

[4]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/gqlqlz/the_identity_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/gqlqlz/the_identity_of_gm_konevlad_is/)

~~~
mark_l_watson
My own contributions are modest. I wrote the shitty little Chess program that
Apple gave away on their early Apple II demo game cassette tape and a few
years later wrote and sold a Go playing program for the Apple II.

I am going to check out the Twitch Chess ‘show’ mentioned in the article,
looks very cool. I enjoy Go webcasts supported by the American Go Association.

I use a very strong Go playing program for practice. I have it rate all of my
game moves and for each move show the best alternative. It really helps, and
has replaced expensive lessons from a South Korean Go professional I took a
few years ago.

I need to find something similar for Chess. I played in the US Chess Open in
1978, and have not played very many serious games since then.

~~~
srtjstjsj
Lichess has free analysis. Chess.com has limited free analysis.

------
jjcm
Headline is almost certainly clickbait. While yes chess is increasing in
viewership, 4,313 average viewers is hardly taking over Twitch’s 15 million
daily viewers. Chess is currently the 29th most popular game on Twitch:
[https://sullygnome.com/games/30/watched](https://sullygnome.com/games/30/watched)

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
It doesn't get high viewership, but as a cultural moment for the site, it was
huge. Chess posts regularly topped LSF for several weeks, and they remain
strong.

It was popular enough that it drew a strong reactionary movement of people
complaining about chess posts. You can argue about clickbait, but the view
counts (not that #30 is shabby at all) don't do it justice.

------
Barrin92
Although probably an unpopular position I agree with Finegold who is quoted in
the article.

Ever since chess became big on twitch, online communities are increasingly
filled with drama around Nakamura's persona, other twitch related drama, or
just general gamer-community style content that was largely absent before.

The popularity largely focusses on a few twitch celebrities rather than
talented players, it does very little to promote chess players who deserve to
get more attention for the quality of their play, or just genuinely players
who have played for a long time.

I think it does little to foster growth of chess as a sport and is just an
opportunity to milk whatever commercial value anyone can out of the attention
which I wager will be short-lived, as the twitch crowd moves on to the next
thing.

~~~
tashi
It's worth noting that Ben Finegold is also a streamer and 99% of everything
he says is a joke. There's some educational content on his streams, but mostly
he hangs out, plays casual games, and insults the audience. It's fun.

~~~
mdoms
That sounds truly awful.

~~~
dplgk
It's an acquired taste. Even then, sometimes it tastes sour.

------
searchableguy
It's good time to mention that there is a lichess HN chess group:
[https://lichess.org/team/hacker-news](https://lichess.org/team/hacker-news)

Although it's been a little dead since last time. I have been thinking of
reviving it but lichess notifications aren't very good at least the forum
system. Many people don't login to their account on a regular basis so it's
easy to miss them.

An an email based invitation system seems better. What do you guys think? Is
anyone interested in maintaining a sort of a club for HN members so we could
include everything like open source experimentation and streaming place [0]
from a few days ago?

0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24333474](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24333474)

Edit: Started a substack. I will head out now!

[https://hnclub.substack.com](https://hnclub.substack.com)

[https://hnclub.substack.com/p/lichess-tournament-next-
weeken...](https://hnclub.substack.com/p/lichess-tournament-next-weekend-12)

~~~
yogrish
My son and his online class teacher uses lichess extensively. He is learning a
lot with it.

------
mellosouls
Fabulous time for chess.

Recent discussion on the same subject:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23537774](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23537774)

Btw this article is lifted from a less addy site here:

[https://theconversation.com/chess-is-taking-over-the-
online-...](https://theconversation.com/chess-is-taking-over-the-online-video-
game-world-and-both-are-changing-from-this-unlikely-pairing-143790)

~~~
searchableguy
Oof, I came across this just few hours ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24384797](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24384797)

I should have been more careful.

------
SubiculumCode
I just watched Nakamura play chess blindfolded yesterday while holding up a
lively conversation. I know that blindfolded chess has been a thing for a long
time, but it is always so impressive to me. Any hope that I'd have of keeping
positions in my head would be gone as soon as someone talked to me.

~~~
throwawayiionqz
What's the point of slowly moving pieces of wood when everything fits in RAM

~~~
mlyle
It's an networking mechanism to send state changes to the other agent and
broadcast them to nearby subscribers. It has the side effect of semi-durably
persisting the state, too.

~~~
srtjstjsj
The range is terrible. Lower than Bluetooth and mugch tighter line of sight
too.

And it's less durable than a smartphone which is great as saving to SSD at
shutdown.

------
II2II
Taking over is probably a bit of an overstatement, but I would be thrilled if
it grew in popularity. Not only is it a game of thought, but it is a game that
I have taught children using nothing more than scraps of paper (to make the
board and pieces).

The article mentions a cultural clash. That isn't so unusual for the game. The
history of chess can be traced back centuries, with both variations in rules
and its place in society. The game survived regardless.

------
russellbeattie
I know this sounds like I'm missing the point, but I'd love to see enhanced
clients for chess which graphically pointed out long and short term options
for those of us who play casually. That way we could be more like generals
choosing among battlefield options, rather than having to memorize openings.

As a somewhat odd example, this would be like the Nintendo DS version of
Street Fighter - which allowed you to assign on-screen buttons for common
attacks. Rather than having to master a series of button presses and execute
perfectly, you could just tap the button and fire off a Hadoken. Would I ever
compete at EVO playing the game like that? No, of course not. But it was fun!
I still lost a lot, but it was just a deeper game.

I think the same could be done for Chess. Let those of us with mediocre
knowledge and skills play the game at the level the masters play at with the
help of some AI. Rather than handicapping with time or giving up a piece, let
the other player have options to get help from the AI once in a while - say 3
times during the game. Or have it set to not allow blunders without
confirmation. There's a lot that could be done to add pleasure to the game.

~~~
yesenadam
> rather than having to memorize openings.

> those of us with mediocre knowledge and skills

Don't worry about openings yet, at all. Practise basic tactics (pins, forks,
skewers, discovered attack, overloading, interference etc) until you almost
never fall victim to them, and can spot it quickly when others do.

~~~
rraghur
I'm one of the mediocre players and what's helped tremendously for chess
tactics is the book "predator at the chess board" (it's available online) and
lichess's puzzles.

------
throwaway5938
Just passing by to signal-boost the creator of Lichess, a single person who,
out of frustration with FICS et al., made an amazing product out of the blue,
released it under an open source license and delivered an UX that blew its
competitors right out of the water.

All it takes one person with skill and generosity to completely change a
community for the better. I hope to become one day this kind of person.

~~~
noir_lord
He did it with virtually no resources and kept it as simple as possible - that
he did it alone is astounding.

He has a good talk about how he did it here : -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZgyVadkgmI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZgyVadkgmI)

------
smusamashah
Is there a chess game which teaches you well known openings as well?

I use to have a java game on my old Nokia phone once. Never found it again. If
I made a certain opening, or did a certain move, it use to tell me that I
played that particular move.

~~~
jlongr
Lichess will tell you the what opening is being played. It also suggests the
'best move' using arrows.

[https://lichess.org/](https://lichess.org/)

------
hlth
A couple friends and I started a Chess Puzzle app (Chess Puzzle Blitz) and
chess.com + COVID-19 is a big reason there has been a massive rally in Twitch.
Most players you see on Twitch and that have been talked about in this thread
are signed to exclusive twitch streaming agreements by chess.com - Chess.com
is very profitable. Downside is it solidifies their position as the dominant
online player. Upside is it does make chess more known and watched worldwide.

~~~
addandsubtract
How come it's not on the Play Store? And I can't download the APK on my
desktop. I just get redirected to the Apple App Store.

------
awb
Chess.com has excellent commentary and coverage of popular chess events. Not
affiliated, but just impressed with the quality of their commentary, making it
informative and exciting.

------
chris-orgmenta
It's also worth noting that, in general, Twitch chat is less toxic for Chess
than other games/categories.

I do peruse Twitch fairly regularly looking for streams that resonate. I'm
always repulsed by a "LET'S GO BOYS" mentality which meanders between
homophobia, sexism, bullying, hate speech.

Chess is a very good thing for Twitch.

~~~
eterm
Actually most of the pogchamps players have commented how their chat is more
toxic when they're playing chess than other games because of the backseating.

~~~
mlyle
Different kinds of toxicity-- mocking people for missing a mate or hanging a
piece is tempting (and perhaps stings more than some random's judgment call
about whether you played a round well in some non-perfect-knowledge, reflex-
drive game). So more of that type of problem, but a bit less of other types
like sexism.

------
0-_-0
Chess is a good game but the queen is OP. Hope they nerf it in the next patch.

------
dkural
Marc Esserman is an entertaining streamer of chess in twitch, with music,
tennis and world class chess.

------
cmwelsh
I did a Ctrl+F and no one so far has posted about cheating! How can we trust a
Twitch experience of chess when actual video game streamers have been caught
cheating on Call of Duty et all? This seems rife for abuse. I love chess but I
wouldn’t play electronically against random folks since the past 15 years.

~~~
dreamer7
I've been playing fairly regularly on lichess and I can assure you that I have
not yet met players that were using computers to cheat. Firstly, lichess may
have some simple checks for move strength relative to the player's rating.
Secondly, I mostly play 5+0 blitz and it's really hard to cheat as the time
goes low with no increments

~~~
birken
In my thousands of games on lichess I've run into a couple of cheaters, but
they are very easy to spot. You also get the rating points refunded once they
are caught and removed.

A standard engine is probably somewhere around 3000 strength (better than any
human), and the average person who cheats is probably 1000-1800 strength.
Within 1-2 games you can easily tell if a 1500 player is magically playing
above super-gm strength all the sudden. The player also isn't going to be good
enough to not play the computer moves that give them away, because they won't
understand them!

~~~
mlyle
Yah, I've played a few games against people that A) played a tricky but
objectively weak (memorized) opening hoping I'd fall into traps, B) blundered
their whole way around the middle game, hanging pieces like mad, and C) slowed
way down and played with 99.9% accuracy through the only, very non-obvious 20
move sequence that could salvage a draw for them. It's pretty obvious. (Often
they are slow with the engine, so I flag them during C).

------
disown
It's growing in popularity for sure. Nakamura's streaming, Magnus's tournament
and everything moving online due to covid helped. But I wouldn't call it
"taking over" and I doubt it has staying power. How long will the casual fans
stick around?

~~~
llarsson
Think of it as a sales funnel. They don't all have to stick around. A
percentage of them will, and they might never have come across cheers without
this current popularity.

------
dang
Url changed from [https://scroll.in/field/972176/game-theory-chess-is-
taking-o...](https://scroll.in/field/972176/game-theory-chess-is-taking-over-
the-online-video-game-streaming-world-and-that-will-change-it-too), which
points to this.

