
Why I moved to Miami - stonlyb
http://abunsen.ruhoh.com/why-i-moved-to-miami-you-should-too/
======
elchief
I worked for a VoIP startup an hour north of Miami. They got bought for $300M.

I got to live in one of the owner's mansions, by myself. It had nine
bathrooms.

Oddly enough, you hear a lot of French there. From the Haitian taxi drivers to
the Snow Birds from Quebec. You can buy good Quebecois beer at some stores.

Miami itself is pretty nice. Reminds me of Vancouver and San Diego. Not a big
fan of Cuban food, but the nightlife is top-notch. Beach scene is cool if you
like beaches. It's pretty hot, but everything has crazy good A/C. Can fly to
the Bahamas/Bermuda/St. Barth's whenever you want. Cheap flights up the East
Coast too.

It helps to have a car, though they have a seemingly underused elevated public
train. It's a good place to bike, as there are essentially no hills.

Regarding taxes, I was paying essentially the same income tax + payroll tax in
Florida as I do in British Columbia (though BC has pretty low taxes). Plus
free healthcare in Canada. Gas, booze, smokes are basically half the price in
Florida as Canada though.

On the bad side...

Peeps are a little shallow, though there is an okay arts community. Not
exactly an intellectual climate. I'm sure it can be found, but I didn't.

Palm Beach is a weird fucking place. Richest zip code in America (or was at
the time I was there). West Palm Beach was the per-capita murder capital of
America. Cops on the bridges to keep the homies out. Lots of boarded-up shops
in West Palm during the height of the boom in 2008. Didn't make sense.

There were three murders (of rich white people) that I heard of during the
year I was there. The locals are poorly educated, but there are lots of bright
imports from around America that make it interesting.

So if you like your artsy, intellectual coffee-shop community of San Fran or
Seattle, Miami might not be for you. But if you like clubbing at nights and
laid-back days, it's pretty good.

~~~
drivingmissm
West Palm Beach used to be a lovely working and middle class area (I lived
there a half century ago), but it is now the destination for many of the
region's Haitian immigrants. They've unfortunately brought many of the same
problems that plague Haiti, including poverty and serious gang violence.

~~~
judk
Ewwww, it has poor people there now? I'll pass.

------
memracom
The whole Silicon Valley advantage is fading. I went there back in 1997 when
it was very hard to find technical jobs in my country (Canada) because a lot
of those kinds of jobs gravitated to head office cities for large companies,
and many Canadian companies were subsidiaries of large American companies. In
Silicon Valley, I learned that most startups fail or are acquired within in a
year or so. It's like a lottery. Then I headed to London England, found a job
fairly easily and lived there for 10 years or so. Not long ago I returned to
Canada, Vancouver this time, and found it loaded with startups and other tech
businesses that were more established. Another Canadian city that I am
familiar with is Waterloo Ontario and it is in a similar condition. I'm told
that Toronto is also overflowing with opportunities both startup and more
established stuff. If you are going to play the startup lottery, why not do it
among folks you know.

And in case you are wondering what this has to do with Miami, I agree with the
OP, just stay home and build your business (startup or otherwise) right there.
You still have a ticket in the startup lottery if that is the way you want to
go, but just like in SV itself, most of those startups don't last very long.

However, unlike SV, if you stay where you are then you have a better chance of
building a normal business that grows incrementally by serving profitable
customers, reinvesting profits, and taking a longer term view.

Readers of HN should be very aware that there are startups all over the place,
and not just in American cities but in most countries of the world. Silicon
Valley just isn't as special as it once was because computers and tech and
Internet connectivity is now virtually everywhere that there are cities.

~~~
hackula1
I always find it interesting how a company that takes off and IPOs outside SV
seems to gain almost no attention even when they have profits that would dwarf
most of the hot startups. I work down the street from a startup that IPO'd a
couple years ago for hundreds of millions, does double digits of daily trading
on the NASDAQ, and seemingly nobody has heard of. Instagram selling for a
billion is cool and all, but there are many companies like this who fly 100%
under the radar. If I had to guess, it is probably a focus on B2C vs B2B.
(Don't have the source, but I think I read it in Inc. this month) 80% of the
startups filing for IPO this year are B2B. Food for thought.

~~~
mjn
I think it's more what HN specifically pays attention to, than what gets
attention in a global sense. My read is that the community here is focused on
web-oriented, low-capital, low-time-to-MVP markets (Y Combinator's preferences
sort of set the tone, but lots of bootstrappers have similar aims). That tends
to make higher-capital, higher-time-to-market, high-R&D or high-sales-touch,
slower-growth businesses a bit off the radar here.

I think partly it's that people are inspired by the category of businesses
that seem like: given $30k and two years in a garage, _I could do that_! This
requires a particular kind of company, and lots of success stories just don't
seem like the kind of thing you could do in a garage, so they aren't part of
this particular corner of the Valley mythos. For example, one of the top tech
IPOs of 2013 is CDW, a Chicago-based B2B firm that's been slowly growing since
1984 by building partnerships and logistics infrastructure, and is now IPO'ing
29 years later. Totally different kind of company.

I think the location actually matters a bit less. People probably do pay more
attention to SF-based companies just because that's where a lot of the
startup-sector media is, but companies from elsewhere that fit the model I
described also get press, like 37signals (Chicago) or SoundCloud (Berlin). A
number of the more prominent HN posters with startups are also from outside
the Valley, like tptacek (Chicago) and cperciva (Vancouver).

------
javajosh
I'm not sure if others have experienced this, but my brain doesn't function
very well in tropical heat and humidity. It just seems to slow down, and
mental games don't seem as interesting. It may be that I've been conditioned
by many episodes of tropical vacations growing up, but whatever the reason, I
can't (and indeed, don't really want to) code below about 30 degrees latitude.

~~~
cyanbane
Do you find the opposite happens? Are you more calculated in snowy environs?

~~~
javajosh
Yes, but the effect is not pronounced. I seem to do well in relatively cool,
dry environments. The humidity, I think, is what affects me the most. I live
in LA, which isn't exactly cold, but the humidity is always low, which makes
it comfortable. But when it gets hot, my brain does get sluggish. It's true
that AC helps, a lot. :)

------
goatslacker
I was born and raised in Miami and my family still lives there so I visit
quite often. I moved to the Bay Area not too long ago (3 years) for work and
IMO it's no comparison.

Miami is a great place to live if your priorities are partying. There are
excellent night clubs and beautiful men and women everywhere.

The Bay Area holds an advantage over almost every point the OP made.

Rent is ~$2k for a 2 bedroom 2 bath if you want to live in a nice area in
Coral Gables that isn't full of roaches, or was built in the 1940s and has
dwarf-sized rooms. Rent is about the same in the peninsula. If you want to
purchase it's a whole different story however. What costs ~$1m here is ~$300k
there and probably in a lot better shape.

Food is a push. I must say the Bay Area probably offers a larger variety of
food. Miami is mostly all Caribbean and Central/South American food which is
excellent but not as varied as the Indian, Mediterranean, Afghan, Thai you see
out here.

The neighborhoods are even more awesome here in the Bay Area. I say this
because the strangers I meet on the street are a lot nicer than the strangers
in Miami. There's a unique, wonderful, and rich history to the cities and
towns in the Bay Area and there are a lot of neat places to explore like the
Open Space preserves out West or the forrest in Santa Cruz. The only mountains
in Florida are the smelly trash ones.

The Developer ecosystem pales in comparison. It's not even close and it won't
be for a while. There are very little tech companies out there and no real
major players. While it's very nice to see it blooming the reality is that
it's still in its infancy and if you're moving out there just for the tech
you're doing it wrong.

The weather. It's just terrible. It's like a sauna all the time. It feels like
you're breathing in liquid water sometimes and it's difficult to make it from
your house to your car (which will be a scorching inferno) without sweating.

The only great things Miami has that I truly miss is the water; it is
beautiful and warm.

~~~
bdesimone
I moved from San Diego to Miami two years ago. For anyone seriously thinking
of coming to Miami from California, I'd like to reiterate a few points.

* Miami is a great place to live if you prioritize partying. If you don't -- or are past that stage in your life -- you are going to find fewer people with things in common than in any other city I've lived.

* If we are generalizing...people are ruder and quicker to screw you over if the opportunity presents itself. And before you say it, no, it's not just because it's a big city. It's different here. It's worse here.

* South Florida drivers are statistically the worst in the country. Luckily I don't have to commute.

* Food is a push, I agree. I really miss the Asian-fare back home. Thankfully, I've found one really awesome Thai place to keep me sane.

* I don't participate in the tech market, as I work remotely for a CA based company.

* The neighborhoods downtown are _not_ awesome. I live across the street [0] from OP and would not feel comfortable walking even a block east with my wife at night. Miami has

* The weather is really subjective. At first, I struggled with the humidity and heat. But now I love it. That and the water are probably the things I love most about Miami.

[0] :
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/bdesimone/8761046729/](http://www.flickr.com/photos/bdesimone/8761046729/)

If you have any questions... ask away.

~~~
auston
Hey we should meet! There is no contact info your profile, email me:
auston.bunsen __at __gmail

------
DanBlake
I just moved from SF to Miami Beach a month ago. I loved SF but if you have
the ability to work from home as I do, financially it does not make sense to
stay. I honestly would have preferred to move to Honolulu over here but the
only area I liked (Tantalus/roundtop/pacheights) really didn't (at the time)
have any nice houses for sale that were under 5 million.

Also, while the cost of living is way down here, so is the income you will get
from working a local job. I talked with a few people and there is scant a
developer pulling in over 90k here. Compare that to SF where 100k salaries are
the norm and it all evens out.

With that said, I like MB/Miami. The tech scene is in its infancy though. I
don't believe there is any real institutional venture funds here. Basically,
raising a 'A' round is going to be very difficult. You might be able to pull
it off with latin american based VC but it will be a struggle.

I will say that the people I have met so far out here have been very nice and
welcoming and there is a very good vibe. I am looking forward to building
things out here.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I did an internship at IBM's Boca Raton site back in '95, where Microsoft used
to work with IBM on OS/2 and NT. There used to be a much more vibrant tech
scene in that area in the 90s, before everything moved to....Texas.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
Also, Apple and AMD have facilities in Orlando.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Not to mention the PC was born in Boca (IBM's initial PC 5150 and later).

------
edw519
I love/hate Miami.

Pros:

    
    
      No state income tax. (A HUGE advantage)
      Lots of business.
      Some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.
      Stunning winter weather.
      Gorgeous beaches/parks/neighborhoods.
      International culture.
      Walkable neighborhoods near downtown.
      Some of the best restaurants I've ever been to.
      Emerging startup scene.
      Vibrant arts/design/culture scene.
      Year round biking/jogging/swimming/etc.
      Lots of money (including international).
      Can fly non-stop anywhere.
      Decent mass transit.
      Lots of wonderful highrise communities in town.
    

Cons:

    
    
      Horrendous traffic.
      The worst drivers I've ever seen.
      Everything generally overpriced.
      Some of the rudest people you'll ever meet.
      Generally horrible service.
      Lots of blight.
      Hot summers (but oddly, no worse than most of the northeast).
      Lots of competition for living/shopping/going out/etc.
      Too much crime/not enough enforcement.
      Party scene is played out (Too loud, not as pretty as you think you are)

~~~
baak
The drivers are an interesting point. People in Miami drive way too
aggressively. In Texas, I found the opposite in Austin. People here are
passive to the point where it's dangerous. Someone will come to a full stop
slamming on their breaks from about 40 MPH because they got scared of merging
onto the highway fairly regularly.

~~~
goshx
I hate the drivers down here (I live in Miami). People couldn't care less
about others in the transit. You are lucky if people let you change lanes.

When I moved here I bought a brand new camaro... on the third day I got a big
dent on the passenger's door. A month later there were three already, even
with all my attempts to park as safe as possible from other cars.

------
justanother
Lower Florida Keys resident here. I still own a place in Orlando which I have
only visited once in the 6 years I've been gone. I got tired of hearing
gunshots in the middle of the night. Between that and the chaotic (and
plentiful) highway drivers, you couldn't possibly pay me to live in most
(any?) large cities in mainland Florida. Despite being only 120 miles from
Miami, I've still never visited, unless you count traffic jams when trying to
get through it.

Once you get away from the urban nightmares, Florida isn't so bad though.
Admittedly not everyone likes the climate, but I run a few miles every
morning, even in the summer, and getting on a boat helps to cool off. No malls
or dance clubs, and almost no big-box stores or fast food. But we do have
Amazon Prime and a fishing pole.

~~~
hellbanTHIS
Orlando is horrible, one of my least favorite cities in Florida. Gainesville
on the other hand is great.

~~~
jkimmel
Did someone flip the street signs on me? I live in downtown Orlando and love
the atmosphere. Plenty of meetups, cheap rent in and around the skyline, great
nightlife, tons of big name concerts and great local shows every night of the
week.

Gainesville on the other hand seemed to be mostly a bunch of drunken
undergraduates. Cool if that's your scene, but outside of Grooveshark there
didn't seem to be much of a tech community, and very little in the way of the
fine arts.

------
crystaln
I made the decision a long time ago that people come first. Comparing the
people of San Francisco to those of Miami, well, in this case you get what you
pay for. I feel like a rock star wild man anywhere else. In San Francisco I
feel like I'm surrounded by people smarter, more creative, and better at life
than me. That's worth every penny.

I'll take a hovel in SF over a mansion in Miami any day.

Besides, the defense of Miami in this article stinks of all that is wrong with
America - that it's filled with great places to consume. Don't get me wrong, I
love my fancy hipster bars, restaurants, and shops - but those aren't what
makes SF the best city for me.

~~~
jmduke
The implication of this post is that people in Miami are dumber, less
creative, and "worse at life" than those in San Francisco.

The population of Miami is around 410,000. When someone tries to "comparing
the people of X", where X is a population of 410,000, I think the bigger
insight is to be gleaned from the writer's preconceptions than their
conclusions.

~~~
crystaln
San Francisco is a magnet for talented, ambitious, creative, brilliant,
audacious people. It's hard to argue against this, and by accepting that as
true, you must also accept the clear corollary - that there are proportionally
more of those extraordinary people in San Francisco and fewer in Miami. And
yes, that makes huge difference.

While it may not be politically correct to say that one city is "dumber, less
creative, and 'worse at life'," it seems to be politically fine to say San
Francisco is filled with creative, smart, "good at life" people. Of course,
those statements are logically equivalent, so it's really just politics you
are arguing.

~~~
jonknee
You can frame it any way you want, especially with vague terms like "talented,
ambitious and creative". Art Basel is a world renowned event that surely
involves tons of talent, ambition and creativity. Strange that it's in Miami
and not in San Francisco.

Another true statement is that San Francisco is a magnet for homeless drug
addicts. It turns out there are a lot of people in both places and you can
find really good and really bad parts of each.

~~~
crystaln
All true. I didn't say there were no interesting people in Miami, only that
the density is so much higher in San Francisco.

------
brianbreslin
Are we seeing more quality of life decisions being a bigger and bigger factor
in startups? I've met with at least 3 nyc startups that are moving to Miami in
the last few weeks because their runway is twice as long here. Although I know
they aren't going to stay here permanently, I do like the idea that new blood
is coming into the area. New blood equals new ideas which in turn leads to
even more new startups.

------
analog31
I spent a few years in Texas -- another zero income tax state, before moving
back to the Midwest.

Something to consider is whether or not you've got kids. Right now my family
lives in an affordable neighborhood with a tolerant culture and excellent
public schools that my two kids attend. In Texas, it seemed more like getting
a good secular education for your kids was something that you had to pay a lot
for, one way or the other -- either living in a super affluent neighborhood or
finding private schools. Financially, I think that I may actually come out
ahead living in one of the so-called "education states."

Granted, my cultural biases show themselves in this post.

~~~
turar
I was under impression that Texas does have good schools, e.g. 3 of top 20
schools in the nation according to USNews are in TX:
[http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-
schools/national-r...](http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-
schools/national-rankings)

Also, what are the "education states" and why?

~~~
grogenaut
2 are in neighboring "counties" in seattle. Wooh boring seattle.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Kirkland and Bellevue are both in king county.

~~~
snogglethorpe
They're rather distant culturally though: compared to Seattle proper, Kirkland
and Bellevue are whitebread, suburban, relatively conservative.

Of course compared to the _rest_ of the state...

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Basically, Bellevue and Kirkland (as well as Kenmore, Bothell, Renton, etc...)
are just like any other suburb outside of the Bay Area. As for the rest of the
state, most of my family lives in the Spokane area and were originally from
Walla Walla...

------
Samuel_Michon
In light of the current (and ongoing) discussion on editorializing titles on
HN:

The article title “Why I moved to Miami & you should too” is _very_ different
from the HN submission “Before moving your startup to NYC or SFO”.

I don’t always agree with HN moderators’ title changes, but in this case, I
can see why the title would be reversed (it hasn’t been yet, as of me writing
this.)

~~~
stonlyb
Happy? ;-)

~~~
Samuel_Michon
Euphoric!

------
excitom
Yeah, but I'll take the weather in Redwood City (mid peninsula) over the
oppressive heat and humidity (and cockroaches and mosquitos) of Florida any
day. For reference: I've lived both places.

~~~
brianbreslin
I live in Miami, and prefer Palo Alto weather much of the year.

~~~
stonlyb
I find staying inside where there is A/C and commuting in my car helps manage
the heat.

~~~
jvrossb
A/C doesn't follow you outside.

~~~
randallsquared
Simple fix: don't go outside. :D

------
mp3tricord
Can someone explain to my why its an advantage to live in a state with zero
income tax? Does it really matter how the state makes its money. If it does
not come from your paycheck directly they get it other ways.

For instance in Florida you pay ~2% property tax on your assessed value and in
california you pay ~1% on your purchased value. If you bought property at 500k
and its appreciated to 1 million in CA you pay 5k in FL you pay 20k.

~~~
DanBlake
The advantage is for high income people, of course. If you make alot of money
(or have alot of retirement income coming in) florida kicks ass.

As a simple example:

If you make 1 million a year and live in a 2 million dollar house.

Property tax in Cali : 20k Income tax in Cali : ~65k

Property tax in FL : 40k Income tax in FL: Zero

So in this example, you are 100% better off being in florida.

~~~
ohazi
> If you make 1 million a year and live in a 2 million dollar house. >
> Property tax in Cali : 20k Income tax in Cali : ~65k

Only 65k taxes on 1 million in income? In California? I'll pay you to do my
taxes.

~~~
GeneralMayhem
That's for state tax only - federal would be another good chunk on top of that
- but yeah, assuming that's all straight-up income (not investments or
anything), just the state-level taxes should be about 100k at California's
current rates.

------
nwatson
I'm now working for a San Jose startup from North Carolina ... and not from
RTP, but from a much less tech-focused area. My wife's family lives here and
that's great for our daughter. Our house here costs 20% what an equivalent
house would have in San Mateo, my bay area home from 1995 to 2013.

This place has a nice downtown, a pretty diverse population (a lot of medical
research and university action). The food's pretty good and somewhat varied
(no Shalimar Pakistani unfortunately, I miss my Saag Gosht).

I miss the bay area but can now get back at least every two months or so to
see old friends. If you can swing it, give it a try.

~~~
malandrew
When you head to Raleigh, be sure to stop by Royal India on Capital Blvd. It's
Indian, not Pakistani, but they excellent dishes including a saag gosht.

~~~
garysweaver
I think Raleigh is the best bang for the buck for tech, food, drink, and
residence anywhere in the U.S.

Downtown Raleigh has art festivals, music festivals (Hopscotch, Wide Open
Bluegrass), Red Hat amphitheater, and Duke Energy Center for the Performing
Arts (including Meymandi Concert Hall, Fletcher Opera Theater, Kennedy
Theater, Memorial Auditorium), etc. There are a lot of great restaurants
within walking distance of some nice/fun bars. You don't even have to walk or
ride; they have a Trolley you can ride for free (or rent!), a Trolley Pub
(bike bar), rickshaws, etc. There are clubs (various kinds and each age
groups), but that's not as much my scene anymore. They are to a saturation
point with microbrewing companies in the area, they have so many:
[http://www.ncbeer.org/brewery-map/](http://www.ncbeer.org/brewery-map/) And
that's not all of Raleigh, e.g. North Hills has been having great free outdoor
concerts with a few great bars (and a great grocery store if you want to be
cheap) right next to it, which has been our fav recently. It is basically
everything you love about a "small town" (great people, community, lower cost
of living) in a well-educated and resourced area (NCSU, UNC-CH, Duke Univ. and
too many tech companies to mention) with plenty of great places to eat and
things to do.

But, Durham has DPAC, lots of great restaurants, a good startup scene,
including areas devoted to startups like the Underground in the American
Tobacco District next to DPAC and the Durham Bulls ballpark (where they do
concerts, too.), etc.

And for the best hole-in-the-wall places to eat, you just have to ask around
enough, like anywhere else. It might be a hot pot Chinese place in some random
Morrisville strip mall, etc.

~~~
malandrew
Used to live there. Now live in SF. Could never live in Raleigh again and I
only go to visit family. It's entirely too car focused and the tech community
is trivial in size compared to SF. The only active meetup group I came across
while visiting recently with solid engineers was the Ruby Brigade. However
with Relevance in Durham, I imagine there is a solid Clojure community in the
area as well.

If you don't mind cars, the quality of live if pretty great, however it kills
me that it is just far enough from the mountains and the beaches for either to
be convenient. Freshwater lakes aren't too far, but too much of those nearby
are in the watershed supplying water to the area so recreational usage is
highly restricted.

~~~
eitally
It just depends what you're looking for and what you mean when you say "tech
commnunity". Most of the big guys have either a major presence or a remote
office here, and even more have work-from-homers. Even with Ericsson gone, IBM
dwindling and Nortel out of business (but Ciena & Genband are doing great and
picked up quite a bit of Nortel real estate in RTP), they've been replaced by
Cisco, eXtreme Networks, NetApp, EMC, RedHat, SAS, etc. Heroku, Google,
Salesforce, Zend, and a whole bunch more have smaller presences and you
regularly run into people working either for startups or smaller tech
companies as remote staff. Yes, it's indisputable that the culture is 180
degrees from SV, but if you're past the post-uni honeymoon period and are
raising a family, I think most would be hard pressed to quantify SV as
preferable to RTP using most measures. Public schools are far better (and
there are very good private schools for the so-inclined), everyone is more
relaxed, we have four seasons, real estate is affordable (my very nice
4300sqft house in a neighborhood of similar homes was under $500k), and the
populace is very well educated (Chapel Hill supposedly has the highest PhD
population per capita in the country). It's just that the people living here
generally are here because their priorities are different than technology
professionals in LA/SF/SV/NY.

And besides all the actual tech companies, there are great tech opportunities
in banking if you go to Charlotte, in biotech (all the big pharmas and a lot
of the smaller/startups are in and around RTP), and pure science. Just like
the Bay Area has Stanford & Berkeley, we have Duke, UNC, and NCSU -- similarly
high quality educations, just with a different focus.

In any case, I'm not trying to convince anyone you're wrong, but there are
multiple angles to every story and RTP is definitely a good option for a lot
of people. Two of my best friends in my neighborhood are relos from California
(one from the LA area and one who worked for Heroku in SF), actually.

------
sanskritabelt
One of the main problems w/ Florida is you're living among Floridians.

~~~
mekoka
Could you elaborate a bit more on this? Genuinely interested.

~~~
acomjean
A lot of weird stuff goes down in florida. The pan handle is deep south. Its
basically an odd mix. (My college roomate lived in Tampa after graduating
umass)

Collecting the weird stories has become an internet meme.

That being said the everglades national park is one of the most beautiful
places I've been. (Just don't go during mosquito season)....

edit: I can't believe I was the second reference to fark on this thread....

~~~
TheLegace
My favourite one:

>Disgruntled ex-boyfriend left thousands of voicemails on his ex-girlfriend's
phone, adds sound effects like gunshots in the background for that added
criminal charge[1]

[1]Sun Sentintal

------
chrissnell
There are so many great places to live outside of SF and NYC. For the price of
my old Bay Area rental, I rented the upper half of a gorgeous house in the Old
Town of Park City, Utah. I was a 35 minute commute from Salt Lake (half of my
SFBA commute) and my front doorstep was two short blocks from the ski lift. I
could walk or ride my bike to everything that I needed. Sundance screenings
were half a block away. In the summer, I could come home after work and still
get a two hour mountain bike ride in, with the trails one block away. In the
winter, I could ski all weekend or even get in some night runs after work at
PCMR. Northern Utah has a thriving tech/startup community so there's plenty of
local support.

Sadly, I left Utah to follow my wife's (military) career to Tacoma, WA. When
she retires in 9 years, you can bet that we'll head back.

~~~
grogenaut
Plenty of good non-mormon places in WA and OR to reside. While not quite SLC
for outdoors, they aren't bad. Bend for example

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Park City is hardly Mormon, I'm not sure what your point is.

~~~
_delirium
If anyone else is curious, numbers for Park City that seem to be floating
around: 40% nonreligious, 35% LDS, 15% Catholic, 10% other religion.

~~~
cookiecaper
These numbers are rarely reflective of actual encounters because many people
who are nominally included in the LDS figure choose not to practice or
observe.

Still, 35% nominally LDS is very low for Utah. Summit County is the one place
in Utah that leans blue in most elections, and is a common settling place for
wealthy persons who like skiing, hence the diminishing LDS population.

------
pearjuice
This is what all job postings should look like. That was amazing and it got me
hooked until the end. If you are a Ruby developer looking for a new gig and
was not surprisingly convinced at the end of that read, I don't know how job
postings could possibly improve.

------
morgante
I definitely sympathize with the tax burden component. Here in New York, I
only end up taking home half what I'm paid which is especially frustrating for
a contractor who could theoretically be working remotely.

~~~
judk
You should less at one number and more at the bottom line and total value for
money.

------
SonicSoul
i went to college in central florida, and now reside in NYC paying $2800 for a
small studio. it's been nearly a decade of putting up with expensive rent,
lines, loud headache inducing noises everywhere, occasional first encounter
with a rat on sidewalk, and yet, no plans to move out.

some reasons to to like nyc: it's no Tokyo, but it's actually pretty big. each
neighborhood has its own vibe, and there are dozens of those in manhattan
alone. The food is simply unbeatable. 2000 restaurants at any given time with
new ones opening up every week. I'm having a hard time visiting all the good
restaurants in my neighborhood alone. it's not too big where there is still a
neighborhood feel (i'm super friendly with small business owners and personnel
in local shops, my neighbors). in my experience [majority of] people have been
very nice and open. i keep meeting people from all over the world every
weekend. i have friends that are starting and running businesses that give me
energy to go on. shit ton of good jobs. models. rich history on every block..
great for photography hobby, looks awesome in winter with all the snow.. looks
awesome in the fall with all the leaves.. looks awesome in the spring with
blooming spring blossoms.. easy to meet intellectual people.. models. lots of
healthy living options, some nyc areas have turned into shopping malls, but
the city still has an edge. to name a few.. i love going to miami to relax and
party, but can't imagine actually living there. possibly when i'm ready to
"slow down" whatever that means?

------
grogenaut
"Lastly the weather is unparalleled from Nov thru March." Yeah and it's
fucking gawdawful for the rest of the year. You can put on more clothes when
it's cold but you can't put on more cold when it's hot. But you do get warm
water for 6 months of the year. To each their own. Just don't tell me I'm
stupid for picking mine. Tell me what's better. Fucking Hot and Humid is not a
reason.

~~~
auston
Hey, I'm really sorry! I didn't mean to come off as suggesting you're any less
smart for your decisions. I just wrote this up as a formalization for when my
friends ask me why I live in Miami. I didn't expect for it to front page HN.

Again, I'm sorry for offending you!

~~~
grogenaut
No way not a problem. I live in Seattle and it's gorgeous for 2-6 months a
year. 6 on a good year _fingers crossed for global warming_. But the rest of
the year means a shit ton of snow and I LOVE snow. If I didn't I'd be in
Austin or the south.

I agree with you, it's absurd for most of these people to live in SF.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Seattle gets snow maybe once every 2 years, otherwise you only see it if you
go to the passes or on a clear day when you can see it on the mountains.

Now rain on the other hand....

~~~
grogenaut
by snow I mean snow in the mountains, the type that is fun, not snow in town,
the type that causes other fun but not as useful

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I'm sure you were just trying to scare off the Californians.

Seattle Cascade snow is wet and icky; it's not the dry soft powder they get in
Utah or other places in the Rockies. There are way better places for snow than
Seattle.

~~~
grogenaut
And it's great snow the day it falls and isnt wet until it gets close to thaw
temps. We also get a lot more snow a year over all at lower altitudes than
anywhere else. Sure ours not always champagne powder, but with several hundred
days skiing/boarding in co and ut, I feel I can make a comparison. Even heavy
powder is still a shit ton of fun.

Also because it snows more you are less likely to have tracked out conditions
any day of the week.

If you're ever up here check out Crystal or baker.

Just keep telling your California friends it sucks up here in the Woods and
I'll keep telling mine about how bad the Mormons are in utah and we'll both be
safe.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I'm a native Washingtonian (Bothell/UW grad) so I know the snow at Crystal and
Stevens. I also did my phd in SLC, the snow is much better there. These days I
live in snowless Beijing.

I would say anything to keep the Californians out; its part of our culture.

------
paul9290
Taxes here in the states are overall disgusting, though you don't realize it
until your salary inches upwards. When your making 40K to 55K here in the
states the amount of taxes taken seems like a fair share. Though when you
almost double that you wonder what's the point of making more money on paper
as in your pocket you only make 60 to 65 percent of of your earnings - WTH?

~~~
levosmetalo
I guess it's not only about the amount of taxes, but also what you get out of
them. Recently I was considering moving from Germany to California, and
decided it's not worth it money wise. Yes, the nominal salary is a bit better,
and nominal taxes are a bit lower in the USA, but what would I get for it?
Here, I get full health insurance included in my taxes, retirements
contribution also. In addition, I get 4k€/year in child support, free quality
education all the way through the university, subsidized education for grown
ups and only 60€/month full day child care. If I were to go to USA, I guess my
complete taxes would be used for harassing other countries, and I'd still have
to pay a lot more for things that here I get for "free".

~~~
toomuchtodo
This is why I contemplate moving to Europe. In Illinois, I'm making
~$120K/year salary. After payroll taxes, I see ~$72K of that. Then take into
account sales tax (10%) and property taxes (~$3K/year).

I'm effectively paying EU tax rates without any of the benefits (child care,
universal healthcare, etc).

------
3Ddude
The grass is not always greener on the other side. Having been all over the
country, FL has its pros and cons like anyplace else.

FL is not that cheap anymore. Car insurance and home insurance are a fortune,
some of the highest in the country. You also have to drive everywhere. Traffic
in Miami is downright brutal both weekday and weekend. Plus, you have a lot of
immigrants that do not know how to drive. If you like to ride motorcycles,
dont.

The work ethic in Florida is probably one of the worst in the country. In NY
and Cali it would take about 10-15 interviews to find a relatively qualified
candidate. In FL it is roughly 1:25-30 candidates. Mostly because of DUI
felonies or drug test failures.

Miami is the gateway to South America and other 3rd world countries so if you
do not like Spanish culture don't bother. As a white person, you are a
minority in South FL. Crime in Miami is some of the highest in the country and
having a CCW permit is the norm, not the exception. FL is still very much the
wild wild west.

South FL has a great scene for artists, graphic designers and retailers but
still have a very hard time attracting exceptional programmers due to the hot
weather and low salaries. If you have children do not bother with the public
schools, you will have to go private.

FL is a great place for a startup due to the lack of taxes and cheap labor
available. However, if you are not a principal of the company go elsewhere.

Also, if you are dealing with a person or company and do not put anything in
writing...RUN. In NY and CA people are very upfront and comfortable with
contracts. Not so in FL. If you say the word contract they look at you like
you offended them. FL has the Homestead Act and because of that you get a lot
of the felons and riff raff who move to FL to start again and pump the money
into their homes. Very shady environment.

Talent sticks with other talent and success leaves footprints.

There are a lot of other great places to work, live and build a business.

------
foster1890
Local Miami resident here and I'm glad to see the startup community is finally
getting some investment. I moved from DC 2 years ago and the only jobs I found
were enterprise .NET/Java position about 30-60 min away from Miami in Fort
Lauderdale and Boca Raton. I really enjoy living in Miami, but it's difficult
to find a well paying job here, good devs will make about $90K. The reason is
there's just not enough demand for the skillset. Hopefully that will change
once the startup community here matures. One note about cost of living,
compared to other cities the cost of living in Miami (proper or Miami Beach)
is on par with any other large metro area (excluding NYC and SF of course).
This coupled with the lower salaries makes moving to Miami a tough sell.

~~~
saltyknuckles
Also a local resident here. I have to agree the pay here sucks makes it tough
to even want to be here.

------
xm1994
I was pleasantly surprised to wake up to a HN post on Miami!

I find the tech scene pretty miserable here but then again I've worked from
home for almost 10 years and I'm terrible at networking events. So it could
just be my self-imposed social prison! I live further south (Pinecrest), a
little further away from our "tech hubs" in downtown and midtown.

If you're in Miami and are looking for any events, Startup Digest does a good
job of showing you what's happening each week:
[https://www.startupdigest.com/digests/miami](https://www.startupdigest.com/digests/miami)

I'd love to meet some HN minded brethren though.. Maybe we should try and do
an HN Meetup, anyone else interested?

Shoot me an email.

------
saltyknuckles
This guy was definitely lucky to find a well paying job. I grew up here and
haven't been able to find a proper paying job. No competition for salary over
here, leaves me very underpaid. All the nice areas in Miami require a higher
salary that most companies here aren't willing to pay.

A lot of assholes here also, get used to people staring at you in your car or
on the street. The women are the hottest I've seen in any state. Most people
here are so into fitness that its hard not to want to look good and take care
of yourself.

------
chrisgd
Nashville, my friends. No state income tax in Tennessee either. One of the
fastest growing cities and the center of health care services in the US, with
HCIT not far behind.

------
MattsterToo
So the piece on Miami started by saying that there is no income tax. It's
true. And there's also very little of the things that get paid for by income
taxes in other states. Like decent public education. Which might be fine for
twenty-something web developers just looking for a life of self-gratification
and night clubbing. But as a place to raise a family and/or attract qualified
(educated) employees from other regions, maybe not so much.

~~~
auston
I feel compelled to defend myself as I don't live "a life of self-
gratification and night clubbing" & your generalizations / stereotyping have
hurt my feelings.

1\. I went to not one, but two blue ribbon schools growing up, in a city where
the income per capita is $25k/yr. It wasn't in Miami but it was in South
Florida.

2\. I volunteer regularly, donate regularly & I'm vegetarian. Hardly the life
of a self-gratifying heathen.

3\. Our interns at 1Sale.com have come in from Dartmouth & we've received
applications from kids that are at Stanford. There are MIT grads at startups
down here too (don't want to put anyones name out who doesn't want).

If I was seeking self-gratification I'd be out every night drinking &
partying, not in my office working on features for customers or optimizing
processes for the company. I really didn't appreciate the personal jab,
MattsterToo.

------
blisterpeanuts
Auston, what is it about your blog that it won't pinch-zoom on my iPad in
either Chrome or Safari? Is there an HTML5 directive that can turn off pinch-
zoom? I tried "request desktop site" but it didn't make any difference. It
resizes fine on desktop Chrome.

Regarding Florida... a vast, beautiful and diverse region with massive
immigration that has propelled it to #4 in population (and closing in on #3
New York). I fell in love with the place when my family visited cousins in Ft.
Lauderdale.

Interesting to read about Silicon Valley and SF versus New York versus Miami
and other urban centers. I wonder whether it's still advantageous in this day
and age to spend the extra bucks and be in a hotspot of entrepreneurial
activity. The online networking forums dwarf the old computer clubs and
networking gatherings of yore. Granted, there's still nothing like face to
face for getting "chemistry" about someone, but is it worth spending an extra
$200,000 for a house and an extra $25,000 a year in taxes? (actually these
numbers are probably understated, depending on where you are)

Your blog describes the lifestyle preferences of a young, single person.
Having a family changes everything and suddenly schools and stability of
neighborhoods become much more important than diversity of cuisine (and once
you have a kid, your restaurant fund is diverted to diapers anyway). From that
perspective, I would think that southern Florida wins hands down over, say,
San Francisco or Manhattan which are prohibitively expensive for raising
families. I mean, people do it, but damn. It's not like when my mother was
growing up in Brooklyn in the 1930s and 40s and millions of families lived in
the City, and millions of families bought modest homes all up and down the
California coast. And Miami was a quiet city you went for two weeks in the
wintertime.

~~~
spiralganglion
Disabling pinch-zooming can be done by placing the following tag in the
<head>:

    
    
      <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width; initial-scale=1.0; maximum-scale=1.0;">

------
JDDunn9
I recently moved to Orlando from Hawaii for the cost benefits.

Pros:

\- Florida was the hit the hardest by the housing collapse, so it's like
houses are having a 50% off sale.

\- Lots to do. Many cities here like Orlando and Miami were built on tourism,
so there's a lot of interesting things to do compared with cities built for
business as usual.

\- Decent beaches and nice weather in season.

Cons:

\- The state government seems extremely backwards/frustrating. Even getting
your driver's license switched over requires ~7 documents. Florida
representatives frequently say stupid things, so you get to see comedians like
Jon Stewart tear them apart on a regular basis.

\- The weather. You have to put up with hurricanes and regular storms. My
sinuses bug me a lot more here.

\- Social life. If you're more progressive/liberal, you'll have to get used to
being the odd-man-out. You can also feel left out if you don't speak Spanish
in many places here.

~~~
exue
Interesting note on politics - always got the impression that Florida was the
'center-of-road swing state' from elections. Is it different on the ground/in
social life?

~~~
tdfx
It's barely fair to even refer to Florida as a singular place, because South
Florida and "The Rest of Florida" are two different cultures. South Florida is
the nice beaches, upscale stuff, and the progressive, educated, imported
population. The "Rest of Florida" has small slivers of tourist spots along the
coast but for the most part resembles any other southern state, and tends to
be quite red politically.

------
mathattack
I love Miami. Lots of great reasons to be there. But man I hate the pompous
"and why you should too."

------
GuerraEarth
Guys, the article is not about food juiciness. It's about someone who loves
their job and kicks it back with a spectacular ocean front view, which we
don't have in beloved Manhattan. Everybody who wants to argue should maybe
take a quick vacation. Like to Miami. : )

------
baak
It's funny that you mention the food being a vegetarian... the food is way
more awesome with meat in Miami :) Cubans are known for their pork, beef, and
seafood. The 3$ meals you can get at a Cuban dive in Miami put almost
everything I've found in Austin to shame.

------
hawkharris
Gainesville, FL, is the best spot for young tech entrepreneurs IMO. Much
cheaper than Miami, very little traffic and crime, bike friendly, tons of
startups. Gainesville is the Silicon Valley of FL, but with a more laid back
and unpretentious atmosphere.

~~~
killahpriest
The only thing in Gainesville is students and the ecosystem to serve them. Oh,
and trees.

~~~
cowpewter
That's slowly changing. And trees are awesome.

------
Zisko
As a native born Miamian studying CS the University of Miami, this excites me.
I grew up in Bal Harbour and around college time I knew leaving would be a
mistake. Nothing compares to the Aventura/ South Beach/ Coral Gables
environments. However, It's been really hard to get into the tech community
here, even though theres an amazing potential for startups in this city. I'm
working on something myself but it seems as if theres no support and I always
assumed I'd have to move to California or up north if I wanted to be a serious
programmer, so this is great news!

P.S. If anyone needs an intern, I make a great cuban coffee!
jacobmizraji@gmail.com

~~~
grogenaut
as a person who's been telling SF and NYC to FU, you should really go try
other parts of the country and see what you like. Then come back to FLA if you
like it.

------
legohead
Almost all those things in his post can be made about CA as well. In southern
CA, not only do you get great year round weather, but if you want to go skiing
it's just a couple hours drive.

We moved to CA for our family. We lived in the midwest, and there just wasn't
much to do. There are endless things to do out here. I imagine Miami is about
the same in that regard.

One thing I think he left out is the political standings. I came from a blood
red state. My way of thinking is more in line with a blue state. It is so much
nicer to be around people who think similar to you.

As for the taxes, yeah that's a pretty tasty difference. But I got to have my
skiing & mountains :)

------
azakai
> Lastly, the weather in Florida is unparalleled from November to March. It's
> usually pretty good the rest of the year too

Lies :P I've lived in Miami. March to November, it's super-hot and super-
humid. And it has hurricanes.

~~~
auston
Here is Miami in April:
[http://instagram.com/p/X7ufLBQWkI/](http://instagram.com/p/X7ufLBQWkI/)

Miami in May:
[http://instagram.com/p/ZFur0VQWkM/](http://instagram.com/p/ZFur0VQWkM/)

June: [http://instagram.com/p/aBqCq_QWhp/](http://instagram.com/p/aBqCq_QWhp/)

Yes it's hot (& most definitely humid) but bad weather is not really that
common (at least for me in the last 2 years) & I think the sky & sunsets are
flippin' beautiful!

~~~
grogenaut
I think what you're calling bad weather and what am are 2 different things. I
miss "bad weather" aka big ass storms. I don't miss hot & humid.

and oh god that last picture makes me cringe and wrap myself in my 30 degree
blanket.

------
abbottry
There are plenty of great places to build your startup. I don't think SF is
one of them, but I'd live on the street in SF before living in Miami (again).

~~~
brianbreslin
Ryan you never technically lived in Miami...

~~~
abbottry
As Miami as the Miami Dolphins.. are you suggesting that Miami is drastically
different than it's surrounding area.. the city limits of Miami are quite
large, and have many different types of neighborhoods. I love that everyone
that lives in Miami thinks they are different, and never want to be grouped
with 'outsiders' (folks that live in neighboring counties), but anyone that
doesn't, considers all Broward, Dade, and Palm Beach the same. It's always
referred to as SFL, South Florida.. All the startups, investors, etc mentioned
in articles like this are not located IN Miami.. they are spread across SFL.

------
nextstep
Maimi is pretty cool. It's too bad they're going to be underwater and the city
mostly uninhabitable in about 10 years.

~~~
yeukhon
If 10 years is true, no one would be living there right now. People will
already be evacuating. The number is probably around 30-50 years.

[http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jul/29/climate-n...](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jul/29/climate-
new-york-boston-miami-sea-level)

~~~
AJ007
SF could have a devastating earthquake at any moment and people are still
there.

Down in LA someone is trying to build a skyscraper on an active fault line:
[http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-hollywood-fault-
mill...](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-hollywood-fault-
millennium-20130802,0,2672188.story)

A good portion of Manhattan will be under water if sea levels rise as well.

Then we all know what happened to New Orleans.

People seem to enjoy evacuating after the fact, not before.

~~~
Crake
I've looked at the projections, and Manhattan's not nearly as screwed as
Miami. Our foundation is mostly rock, I think, and a lot of this island has a
relatively high elevation (as anyone who has walked up the giant hill to CCNY
would happily tell you). Of course, the financial district will probably be
toast, but things will just get pushed further into the bronx/inwood areas as
is already happening now due to rent prices. I don't think anyone will care if
we have to abandon Staten Island...

Miami, on the other hand, is mostly flat and is sitting on a porous
foundation, in addition to being right next to the everglades. There was a
really interesting article recently on it:

[http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-city-of-
mi...](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-city-of-miami-is-
doomed-to-drown-20130620#ixzz2X0NGzxLY)

~~~
khuey
Manhattan is also dense and rich enough to be worth trying to save.

------
Lucy_karpova
Great article that proves: living in NY and SF is so many times cooler than in
Miami that a person needs to write an Article on how good it is to live in
Florida to welcome guys to open vacancies. Epic way to hire people, but I’m
sure I’m the only one who’s read the Whole article, too good and too long.

------
kyleblarson
My takeaway from most of these "why I moved to X" stories is generally not
"wow, that seems like a great place to live", but rather "living in SF or NY
sucks". (I happen to live in a town of about 200 people in the mountains of
Washington State and couldn't be happier)

~~~
glasz
same here. don't know why everybody loves berlin so much. 200 ppl in the
mountains of washington sounds so much more relaxed.

------
ChrisNorstrom
Hell no: Hot weather is bad for productivity.

I lived in Florida for 5 years. Lived in St. Louis for 15. It's not a myth,
being in a hotter state makes you lazier, more tired, and decreases your
productivity levels (unless you're indoors 100% of the time). It's the heat &
sun and the way it affects productivity and thinking, and blood distribution.

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/09/24/a...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/09/24/a-hotter-
world-is-a-less-productive-world/)

[http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865562780/Hot-news-The-
be...](http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865562780/Hot-news-The-best-
workplace-temperature-is-warm-or-cold.html?pg=all)

For me at least, being in the heat would just drain me of my energy and focus.
When I lived in Orlando, Florida my productivity just hit rock bottom. I
didn't want to do anything. Neither did anyone around me. My neighbors were
all lazy, everyone was lazy, the parks had a lot less people than parks up
north. Every thing was just slower. Less people walked. Everyone was just
inside. The sun is just intense since Florida's closer to the equator, the
heat is extreme during the summer and since there's so much humidity your body
can't cool itself off through sweat evaporation. Also, when you're in the heat
your body sends more blood to circulate in your skin and uses a lot more
energy to keep itself cool. And even simple things like going outside to check
my mail would just be a burning pain. I'm serious, we all stayed indoors. We
were like prisoners. Miami is even worse. And Key West was just... a boiling
oven.

Compare the productivity levels, development, & innovation of colder countries
with warmer countries. Is it really a surprise that so many 3rd world
countries are hot countries near the equator (with very little availability of
air conditioning)?

"According to this theory, about 70% of the economic development of a country
can be predicted from the distance between that country and the equator. In
other words, the further from the equator the more developed a country tends
to be." \-
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_determinism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_determinism)

After my Florida experience I'm staying away from the south. Some people love
it there though.

~~~
ars_technician
If everyone was inside with AC, why was your productivity lower? What you said
can only make sense if your business requires you to work outside.

~~~
grogenaut
pretty sure that it's because you don't get the cold to make you feel less fat
after big ass cuban sammiches. Sure you get the AC but then you walk out the
door and sweat congeals all over your fat. I know. In the colder climates you
just put a packers jersey over it and you sweat on the inside.

------
tempestn
Burn Notice already sold me on Miami. If only all my friends and family didn't
live in Canada!

------
coingig
If anyone is interested in joining our growing bitcoin group in Miami, you can
join us here
[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MiamiInternationalBitcoin/](https://www.facebook.com/groups/MiamiInternationalBitcoin/)

------
jksmith
Well having spent a lot of time in both places, I must say I really dig Miami.
It's the right mix of laid back and intensity for me, and San Fran summers are
too cold. Plus, my Don Johnson outfits don't fit in nearly as well in SF.

------
goronbjorn
Minor editorial note: SFO is the airport, SF is the normal abbreviation for
the city.

~~~
lobster_johnson
It's pretty common to use the main airport name as a synecdoche referring to
the city. I regularly see CPH used instead of Copenhagen, OSL instead of Oslo,
BCN for Barcelona, etc. Doesn't work for all cities, of course.

~~~
mbreese
Yeah, but how many people know where ORD is without having to think about it
for a minute.

~~~
aimhb
Quick! What's MCO? You guessed it — Orlando.

~~~
alxp
It's a shibboleth in social media to show that you travel by air often. It's
even sillier when Canadians do it because what the everloving crap does YYZ or
YUL tell you if you don't already know what they mean.

------
djmollusk
I'm a little surprised Latinas wasn't on the list actually.

------
Expat2009
Miami is a complete shithole...grew up there and lived there 15 years.

Now living in a major western european city for 4 years and almost everything
about europe blows the states out of the water

~~~
turar
Care to expand? What about taxes?

------
leif
It often happens that someone outside new york talks about the amaaaazing food
in their city. I used to laugh, or correct them. Nowadays I just feel pity.

Nothing compares to the food of new york city. Absolutely nothing. Don't even
fucking try.

"I live within walking distance of two zagat top 10 rated restaurants." There
are sixty restaurants within walking distance of my apartment and they're all
better than anything in miami. Fuck, 5 of them are run by Top Chef winners.
And there are 10 more that are better than those because the food network
doesn't even get the top talent.

~~~
fchollet
I lived in NYC for a year, working right next to Hell's Kitchen. While the
food is great, it's certainly not "incomparable". Paris has better
restaurants. Tokyo has better restaurants (cheaper too in that case). Even San
Francisco has comparable food standards.

You end up sounding just like so many New-Yorkers --annoying and conceited.
But no, living there doesn't make you special. It's just a big city, and not
the only one in the world.

~~~
Crake
I think once you're hitting the level of "one of the biggest cities in the
world" there's almost guaranteed going to be really awesome cuisine. I thought
Paris had really great food when I was there, I'm sure Tokyo's got delicious
offerings as well (I love Japanese food, mmm).

I just moved to NYC, though, and the food options here are incomparable to
anywhere else in the US I've been. (Note: I haven't been to San Francisco, and
while I'm sure it has good food too, NYC's excellent transit system means I
have wider access to places.)

I'm continuously surprised by how CHEAP things are, too! Yesterday I paid
$1.50 for a box of strawberries, $0.75 for some cherry tomatoes, and $2 for a
sizeable package of freshly chopped and peeled kiwis. (In the midwest, I'd pay
almost that much just for the strawberries.) To top it off, I had the best
lamb and rice meal I've ever had...for $5 from a halal food cart. (I actually
spent an hour today looking for the cart again, I liked it THAT much, but it
was nowhere to be found. I will look again tomorrow!!)

Of course, I still haven't found anywhere that sells a gallon of milk for less
than $4, but I'm going to keep searching. I kind of enjoy exploring places and
mentally marking down which place has the cheapest offering of a certain
thing.

~~~
idProQuo
> To top it off, I had the best lamb and rice meal I've ever had...for $5 from
> a halal food cart. (I actually spent an hour today looking for the cart
> again, I liked it THAT much, but it was nowhere to be found. I will look
> again tomorrow!!)

If I were to guess, I'd say it was Halal Boys Platters on 53rd and 6th. Those
guys are legendary.

~~~
Crake
Actually, it was over on...86th and Broadway? Might have been 82nd. After
seeing this comment, I went and tried halal guys the other night, but I didn't
like the texture of their rice quite as much, and I accidentally put too much
hot sauce on. That was my own fault, of course, but I felt like it was more of
a chemical burn than a spicy burn. It's not awful, and it's still a good deal
for $6 or so, but.

The quest to find the mysteriously vanishing halal cart continues.

------
robmcm1982
I love when people talk about a great developer ecosystem in their city of
choice. It just rubs it in for how weak it is in Philadelphia.

------
frank_boyd
Plus, now that Dexter is gone...

------
devx
How's the crime rate in Miami?

~~~
saltyknuckles
Don't go to Overtown, Miami Gardens, Hialeah, and Cutler Bay.

------
glasz
native german from boring berlin. just fascinated by the stories here in the
comments -.-

------
zobzu
looks tempting enough.

------
homakov
Why live in amerika when we have asia?

