

Ask YC: Abandon my new corporate job to build my startup? - kynikos

Over the last few months, a friend and I have been growing a startup. We just graduated college. He's moving back home to continue programming at a company he's been with for years. I chose to move to a neighboring city to take a stable job at a growing, somewhat large (~200 people) internet company.<p>I just started yesterday and I already feel like this wasn't the right decision. Our plan was to continue working in our free time to grow the site, but I want to dedicate 100% of my time to it, something that my partner is unwilling to do due to overbearing student loan payments and the allure of a near-six figure salary at his job. I fear that we'll both become too busy and worn out from our jobs and lose momentum with our venture.<p>Are there any people here who have successfully grown a company in their free time, ultimately making their venture full-time? I wonder how many people here are working on their startups part time?
======
nostrademons
Your first question is really two questions:

1\. Can you successfully grow a company that you start part-time?

2\. Can you successfully grow a company _while_ you're still part time?

The answer to the first appears to be yes: among others, this describes
Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, EBay, Facebook, PlentyOfFish, Bloglines, and
Del.icio.us. It almost seems like companies that do this tend to do _better_
than the ons that jump in all the way immediately. The extra time gives you a
chance to do the riskiest parts of your startup - market research and
prototyping - while still under your employer's umbrella, and it's a test of
your commitment. If you're passionate enough to put 4 hrs/day into your
startup while still employed, you'll be in much better shape when you're not
employed.

The answer to the second question appears to be no: of the list above, EBay is
the only one that made enough money to support the founder at his previous
salary before he quit his day job. There's just too much that needs to get
done at a startup to do it all in your free time.

As for my own story - I spent 9 months working part-time on my startup before
going full-time. The immediate effects seem to be that it set us back 9
months, and I have about $30k more startup capital. There're likely 2nd-order
effects as well; for example, because of the 9 month delay, my cofounder got
accepted to HBS before we launched and quit. OTOH, if this recession turns out
to be long and deep, the delay and extra capital may mean the difference
between falling down dead in the middle and making it through to the other
side. And in the 9 months extra I spent at my job, I got to see my project go
from "death march" to "almost done", which is good practice for when your
startup starts looking an awful lot like your last employer's product.

I also shared your fear about becoming too busy and worn out from the job to
pursue my entrepreneurial dreams, but this fear turned out to be overblown.
You don't magically become a different person when you take a corporate job.
If your startup is compelling enough to sustain you through the inevitable low
points, it'll be your job that suffers (and then you just need to realize that
and back out before you get fired).

------
richesh
No one can really answer this for you. Can you live without a paycheck? Can
your family help pay for your necessities? e.g. you could go dependent under
your parents for insurance till you are 25 and unemployed.

Then after that is answered, ask yourself will your idea if delayed by 6-12
months will be executed by someone else?

My Personal experience: I graduated college 7 years ago, I have had a steady
job for the past 7 years and was able to save some money. When the startup bug
bit me last year, I continued to work a full-time consulting gig while working
on my idea. This was a bad move on my part, because I always found myself some
how busy, tired, not motivated enough to work the "night-shift". The passion
was there but execution was tough to maintain at times. So I finally quit 3
weeks ago and went full-time, while dedicating 100% of my savings to my
startup (I don't have that much saved up due to college loans, CC bills, and
other obligations). I have enough to run me for 4 - 6 months of not needing a
job..after that who knows.

BUT...the past 3 weeks have been AMAZING, working 14 hour days on just my idea
is rewarding, less-tiring, fun, exciting, and it NEVER feels like 14 hours!!

So my suggestion, make sure your necessities are covered..quit..and get your
idea out the door..the big corporate jobs will always be there in the
future...but at least if you find yourself back there you'll have the
satisfaction of knowing that you tried.

~~~
prakash
do you have a link to what you are working on?

~~~
richesh
We are still building the product, and so I don't want to put the link here -
not yet, anyways :) Once we have an alpha or private beta I'll ask for people
to help out.

------
tonystubblebine
Sure, people definitely do it even though a lot of folks think it's easier to
take the plunge 100%.

I built CrowdVine in the first half of 07 while doing contract jobs on the
side. It was definitely hard to manage both at once, but not harder than
everything else that came after it. Starting a company is hard, period.

I had slightly different options than you do since I spent six years after
college working for other people, paying off debt, and building contacts that
I could go to for contract work.

I'm happy I did it this way, because now the company is 100% privately owned
and profitable. My major disappointment with working for other people was how
much of my work went nowhere, either canceled mid-project, launched and then
canceled, launched with to no traction, or launched with great traction and
then abandoned. After that I couldn't stomach the idea of someone else in my
business.

One thing I think is important if you bootstrap by doing side work is to have
a plan for moving completely from one revenue stream to the other with no
ramp-up. I did it by building a product that I could build a consulting
service around. We launched with break-even revenue for two people. A lot of
other people want funding, so your goal would be to build a product that can
get you funded. I don't think you want to spend a lot of time with a live
product and a full time job (although del.icio.us did it that way).

------
webwright
I sold my first product startup that way. It was a part-time effort the whole
time-- never made it to FT before we sold.

Part-time is a great way to run an experiment-- if it's a simple one. There
are lots of great startups that start as weekend projects-- but obviously if
you bite off a HUGE project, part time just won't play.

If you can set aside 1-2 nights a week (and 1 weekend day per week) to crank
away for 6 weeks and release something decent, I say stick part-time and give
it a whirl. If the project is more complex than that or you can't set aside
that time (for you and your partner), then momentum will probably get to be a
problem.

But, generally-- fulltime wins.

------
ph0rque
I'm one of the people working on my startup part-time. Since my day job has
nothing to do with web development, it's a joy for me to spend several hours
in the evening doing web dev/design. However, I _am_ painfully aware of the
(lack of) speed in my progress; as such, I am looking for a co-founder to make
faster progress. If a funding opportunity came up, I'd definitely go full time
at it.

~~~
joeboo
I'm in a very similar situation. I'm working part-time on a startup that is
close to prototype. I'm going alone also, and pondered how I'd ever find a co-
founder. I've already found out the hard way a bad co-founder can slow things
down, and when you're pulling all the weight, it just kills the whole spirit
of the startup.

------
djhomeless
Some great and inspirational comments here. I hope the original poster
realizes that there is simply no wrong/right answer to this question. Everyone
is different.

My personal experience, which I would not curse upon my own worst enemy: I am
in my late 30's and have a family, mortgage, a mountain of bills, and zero
savings. What I did have was the passion, drive, and a incredible knack for
shifting debt around via a variety of 0% interest credit card offers.

So in a nutshell I kept my day job, did as much of the grunt work myself
(overall architecture, protoypes, server config and setup, performance tuning,
etc) and shifted the rest offshore to some developers in Eastern Europe. My
typical work week is 70 hours which sounds brutal, but a combination of a 3
hour train commute + a 3G Data Card means I can get a lot of work done instead
of watching movies on my ipod. Also, while I can't quite figure out why I
haven't flatlined, I still somehow find the time to be a good father and
husband, though I barely remember what it was like when I had time to catch up
on TV or twitter.

Would I have preferred to go full time? Hell yes. Would it have been easier if
I was not bootstrapped and was spending other people's money? Of course.
However, all that matters is my service is somewhat established, and while
tiny is growing strong. If I can do what I have done in the last 12 months,
than anyone can.

------
tortilla
Whatever you do, start saving money now. I would suggest you continue your
full-time job until you have at least 6 months of living expense, more if you
don't have a sound revenue model. If you haven't done so already, try to start
simplifying your life and your expenses.

------
shafqat
We built NewsCred part-time for the first six months, but it ended up taking
just as much time as my day job so I was effectively working 20 hour days! A
couple months ago I took the leap of faith and am now 100% on NewsCred, with
absolutely no regrets. Things are taking off and now I'm here to give it my
all.

I would say grow it for a bit, but take the jump sooner rather than later.
Life is too short to miss out on good opportunities and the fun of starting
up.

Good luck - plus you have everyone here to support you. It helps!

------
sugarcode
I feel your pain. Recently, I also graduated from college with a startup side
project that just acquired its first customer. The last twelve months I've
spent alot of time asking entrepreneurs (including a Silicon Valley VC) about
what they thought, and the consensus I've gathered is make your mistakes in
the first year or two with a large company rather than sink your own ship. Not
sure what your internship experiences have been, but there are many non-
technical skills that are valuable to have and can only be acquired through
experience.

Of course, alot of this depends on your window of opportunity with this
startup venture. Is speed to market and large funding critical to your
success? If so, it'll be difficult to get $$$ with a full-time job on the
side. On the other hand, if you're pursuing niche customers
(([http://www.omnisio.com/startupschool08/david-heinemeier-
hans...](http://www.omnisio.com/startupschool08/david-heinemeier-hansson-at-
startup-school-08))) and bootstrapping your way to success , having
supplemental income can be very handy.

I personally have decided to keep the dayjob for at least a year to build up
some cash and learn some of the soft skills needed to be a well-rounded
founder. Having less time to work doesn't mean you can't build something
meaningful and useful; it just means you need to be more efficient with the
time you have.

Best of luck!

------
icky
1\. If your partner is unwilling to do the same, then why should you
effectively work for him, for free?

2\. If you can keep up both job and startup, you can afford to be much more
picky about how, when, and from whom you take funding, if you choose to do so
at all.

3\. Your startup could fail either way. Are you prepared to have no job, no
viable startup, and an empty bank account? If you keep your job, you can start
working on a new startup idea the very next night or weekend.

------
bkbleikamp
Just a note, you can defer student loans almost indefinitely by calling the
government and explaining why you want to defer - almost any reason is good
enough, so I am assuming "I am starting a company" will work.

------
iamelgringo
I'm starting my business part-time. But then, I work 12 night shifts for 3
days a week as an ER nurse. I have 4 days a weeks to chip away at my business.

I'm also focusing on building a business and not a startup. So, if things go
well this fall, I should have some revenue coming in.

My goal is to spend 2-4 solid productive hours a night when I'm not working.
And, I can usually achieve it. I figure little by little I'll get it built.

I'm also taking the long view on being an entrepreneur. I'm planning on this
being a life-style for me. I'm going to be starting businesses or startups for
the next 10-15 years. So, I don't have to get it all done in the next 6 months
until my savings runs out.

As to whether you should quit your job or not... How long can you sponge off
your parents? :) No, really. How long can you go without having an income
before you have to get a job? I'd run with it for as long as I could. But,
that's me.

------
markm
Facebook is one example where it was coded in undergrad, took off, and finally
the founder switched to full time over the summer.

~~~
bayareaguy
I suppose coming up with something as successful as Facebook would be a nice
problem to have, but isn't Facebook's origin a little questionable?
Zuckerberg's partners were obviously unable to protect their idea but if
kynikos is already working for an internet company there's a potential problem
pursuing an area they could be interested in.

------
ucdaz
I would first do it part time to hammer out the ideas and to build a
prototype. Once you have the vision, run with it and go full time. It's really
hard to be successful when you're doing it half-a$$. Really?! What do you have
to lose? If you think you are burden with responsibilities now, the future
will hold even more responsibilities and constraints. It's better to take
risks when you're young and unadulterated. If not now, when?

------
merrick33
I grew my company while I did IT / Network consulting part time. I found that
working part time did not work out, so the next best solution for me was to
work 2 weeks and take 2 weeks off - that worked ok.

------
staunch
There's no question in my mind that it _very significantly_ increases your
chances of succeeding. To me, that means you should do it unless you _can't_
for some reason.

------
zepolen
Yep, get ready to become good friends with coffee.

~~~
rw
Tea.

------
kynikos
Thanks to all for the insights and advice--it's definitely comforting to know
I'm not alone!

------
GrandMasterBirt
I'm currently in the same situation as the OP.

Here is the point: Working FOR a company will give you money to live by,
health insurance, FUNDING... Once you get the company started and start to
need to put more and more time into it, then you can quit your main job (or
have a spouse/relative support you). In either case you need to eat, and you
don't want to end up in a situation where your startup failed (hey it happens)
and you are in heavy debt unable to pay it off.

If you like your job, stick with it, if they can teach you something. Really
good specially fresh out of school.

Regarding money, from people I know who started businesses, they all say the
same thing: It takes time for it to actually start EARNING money, at first you
keep investing and investing and investing. Then again they started stores :)

