
What it's like to work with Mark Pincus - joshbuckley
http://sashmackinnon.com/what-its-like-to-work-with-mark-pincus
======
far33d
This is an accurate and uplifting account of what it was like for _Sash_ to
work with Mark.

The reality for many other people, myself included, is quite different.

And that's all I'm going to say about that.

------
speeder
I am stumped.

That is the first terrible read I had on svtble, the first so excessively
positive view of Mark Pincus that it reads like a PR stunt, and the first time
I wonder what the hell happened.

I mean, seriously? WHY? What is the point? Why write a bordering absurd praise
of a guy that is so infamous for his own admitted horrible things in the book?

If it was more realistic, I mean, praising the good and the calling out the
bad is one thing, but I don't see this sort of treatment even with Steve Jobs
(even very positive texts on Steve Jobs mention how he had bad temper and
people feared to get fired by just being near him, or how he sometimes got
stubborn with ideas that were not necessarily good ones).

~~~
saraid216
I didn't read the OP, but I did read the other posts in the blog. I'm not
really impressed by her capacity for insight.

~~~
mnicole
> Working at Zynga, people always tell me they “had the idea for Draw
> Something before Draw Something”.

Well, considering Pictionary was first published in 1985..

~~~
timr
There was also an extremely popular mobile game in Japan that had the same
basic premise, a year or so before Draw Something hit it big.

------
OoTheNigerian
Why so many negative responses to this post? Are you disappointed that not
everyone that has interacted with Mark Pincus had a bad experience? I found it
interesting because it was certainly different. It shows another side.

I do not know about most of you guys calling this piece "puff" because it is
not bashing Pincus, but i do like balance while learning about people and
things.

It is possible to infer from this that Pincus goes out of his way to be kind
to talented workaholics and is not an all round devil. Therefore, if you are
naturally a workaholic, you would enjoy working for him. If not, you should
really consider.

This post brings a balance to the otherwise one-sided narrative about Mr
Pincus/Zynga.

~~~
wpietri
I think the negative responses come from the total disconnect with what is
known about Pincus and Zynga.

The piece would have a lot more credibility if he acknowledged the issues. He
could have denied them, or, better, could have explained that they were
legitimate but that there was another side to Pincus.

But as it is, all I can feel about the piece is WTF. Is the guy clueless? Is
this denial? Is he kissing ass? Did he just see the hero he was looking to
see? Is he right but only seeing a narrow slice? Do we all just have Pincus
wrong?

No idea, but the piece gives me no reason to find out.

~~~
OoTheNigerian
I would have supported your point if I remember people demanding for the
"positive side" of Pincus in comments discussing posts bashing him/Zynga.

I read this as a deeply grateful person writing about his positive experience
with a mentor of his. It might have been written because the author wants to
balance the solely negative stories we hear of him.

Because this is Svbtle does not mean we should forget that this is a
_personal_ blog.

~~~
mnicole
Edit: Since this link was posted to HN, Sash has removed each of his other
posts, so those are what I am referring to in the second-to-last paragraph.

> It might have been written because the author wants to balance the solely
> negative stories we hear of him.

My opinion of the company was not based on what other employees have said;
their business practices before all of this alone made them look bad. The
employee accounts and admissions Pincus made regarding doing anything to make
money just added insult to injury. Additionally, I don't think there's
anything worth balancing regarding a CEO who tells his employees to steal
rather than innovate because they're not as smart as their competitors.

The OP used the term "groomed" to speak to how many young employees were
quickly shot up the ranks without any experience and how this was intentional.
I would be grateful to someone that irresponsibly gave me a fancy title and
put me in charge of something too, despite the reality that he was using my
youthful ambitions to his advantage, working me to the bone under the guise
that I was capable of the work I was doing, despite failing in doing so. I
also don't know anything about the author's health before the incident where
he collapsed, but it wouldn't surprise me if the stress of working in such a
way played a role in it. It all seems a little too Stockholm Syndrome to me,
but I'm not Sash so I really can't say.

> Because this is Svbtle does not mean we should forget that this is a
> personal blog.

So then what is the point of Svbtle as an exclusionist platform if at the end
of the day it's no different from any other?

".. an invite-only publishing network that brings some of the best things from
newspapers and magazines to a network of great people. We focus on the people,
the writing, and the ideas. Everything else is secondary."

His first post on the platform was a quote from Pincus from an article written
last year about how well the company was doing, and a single sentence
agreement with it. The second entry was a few sentences about how ideas are
useless (when actually dreamers are just as important as doers, but I guess
when you can make money profiting off of other people's ideas, you would hold
this sentiment). Outside of the linked entry, the rest were just a few
sentences to a paragraph or two on nothing all that earth-shattering.

Personally, I think they should put the answers the authors write in response
to the "Expertise + Authority: Who are you? Why should people listen to you?"
and "What do you plan to write [about]?" questions they answer when they apply
in the sidebar. That's what I want to know before I sink my teeth into the
entry.

~~~
argonaut
I'm just an observer of this conversation, but I'm afraid I have to agree with
OoTheNigerian with this one. I'm well aware of Mark Pincus's idiotic mishaps,
but it's readily apparent your arguments were made up a long time ago to
snarkily criticize everything, in terms of framing everything to fit your
negative picture of Mark.

Exaxmple: You frame "grooming" as "irresponsibly" giving a "fancy title", when
it could just have well been framed by someone with a positive view of Mark as
"establishing the best meritocracy," "Mark has a razor eye for the best
talent" and other similarly inane and unsubstantiated labels.

------
ebbv
This is the first time I've read a piece from a Zynga employee that hasn't
been a tale of nightmares.

Unfortunately it goes beyond just being a positive story of the experience
someone had at Zynga to a nearly comical worshipping of its CEO.

I think the author is either in love with Pincus or is hoping Pincus will
invest in his next project.

~~~
zerooneinfinity
Twist, the author IS Pincus

~~~
dm8
HN is not reddit. So please no more 'twist' comments. :)

------
AVTizzle
"I did every horrible thing in the book to, just to get revenues right away. I
mean we gave our users poker chips if they downloaded this zwinky toolbar
which was like, I dont know, I downloaded it once and couldn’t get rid of it.
_laughs_ We did anything possible just to just get revenues so that we could
grow and be a real business…"

[http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/06/zynga-scamville-mark-
pinkus...](http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/06/zynga-scamville-mark-pinkus-
faceboo/)

Not to mention the stock option scandal [1], and notoriously horrible working
conditions [2]. I haven't met the guy, but it seems to me like the ship he
runs is pretty fucked.

[1] [http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-57322150-17/zynga-to-
emplo...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-57322150-17/zynga-to-employees-
give-back-our-stock-or-youll-be-fired/) [2]
[http://www.itworld.com/software/228383/more-why-it-sucks-
wor...](http://www.itworld.com/software/228383/more-why-it-sucks-work-zynga)

~~~
jfisk87
notoriously horrible working conditions? really? I work here, interact with
plenty of the teams and it is very far from horrible. Yes things get a little
hectic when deadlines are due but thats the nature of things. Zynga cant teach
you a work life balance, you do, and that seems to be respected by managers.

~~~
wpietri
Zynga _is_ notorious for it. E.g.:

[http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/zyngas-tough-
culture-...](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/zyngas-tough-culture-
risks-a-talent-drain/)

------
ryanklee
I found this to be an interesting read, simply because (1) it rings true, and
(2) it's contrary to everything I know about Pincus and runs up against my
personal ire towards Zynga's apparent M.O.

Concerning (1) -- Yes, "rings true" is subjective. But even if the story's
exaggerated emotionally, it still managed to generate empathy in me towards
someone I previously would have written off (and maybe unjustly) as, well,
scum.

Which leads me to (2) -- Contending with competing notions of persons one
hasn't met is a valuable thing. Human subjects should ideally be humanized,
which means engaging the idea that people are sometimes very contrary beasts.

Whenever that idea is buried over, wrong thinking. Whenever that idea is
illuminated, better thinking.

That said, the write up could be disingenuous, false or true. Even so, I took
value from it simply because it humanized someone I previously would have
cheered being thrown to the wolves. No longer, even if he is a total dirt-bag,
as others contend.

------
gnosis
This reads mostly like a content-free puff piece, where Pincus' former
assistant is kissing his former boss' ass. Typical corporate cheerleading.

~~~
gruseom
Aw, come on. I hate "typical corporate cheerleading" as much as anyone, and
your comment is totally unfair. This is a kid writing about an experience of
mentorship. It's natural for someone to be grateful for that and want to
express it, and it's natural to be effusive when doing so.

~~~
grindall
Yes, but we all knew it was going to be 100% positive, even before clicking on
the link. He might as well have not written it in the first place.

~~~
tptacek
So from your vantage point, how is anyone supposed to write about Fabrice
Bellard, or, for that matter, Wire's "Pink Flag"? Do we have to make up
negative things about them, or are we just not allowed to write about them at
all?

~~~
gruseom
> _Wire's "Pink Flag"_

[http://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_seven_commandments_of...](http://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_seven_commandments_of_art_punk_wires_rules)

~~~
tptacek
I call BS; they routinely break rule 5.

~~~
gruseom
#4 too, though not routinely – "Mannequin", a song I suspect we'd disagree on,
definitely "choruses out".

Edit: hmm, I'm not sure what kind of BS you meant to call this but I'm
starting to suspect it might be made up. The few Googleable instances of it
all go back to a single source that posted it without attribution. Plus,
"negative self-definition" sounds suspiciously PoMo... You realize what it
means that I posted this, don't you? Must now explode.

Edit edit: Saved. The image is made up and the caption was added later but the
substance did come from Graham Lewis.
[http://books.google.ca/books?ei=YMQvUeffEsKWiALI4YG4Aw&i...](http://books.google.ca/books?ei=YMQvUeffEsKWiALI4YG4Aw&id=4FEIAQAAMAAJ&dq=wire+pink+flag+33+1%2F3&q=rules#search_anchor)

Edit edit edit: since when else will this ever be apropos, here is some of the
most uncomfortable television ever:
[http://dangerousminds.net/comments/truly_post-
punk_suzanne_s...](http://dangerousminds.net/comments/truly_post-
punk_suzanne_somers_meets_wire_on_the_late_show_1987)

~~~
tptacek
Crap, forgot who I was talking to. Should have known a silly comment about
Wire rocking out might send you into a fugue state of attribution hunting. I
DIDN'T MEAN IT!

~~~
gruseom
You can't take the literature grad school out of the boy.

But isn't that Suzanne Somers - Wire interview seriously... whatever it is?
Come on, who else am I going to get to watch that? :)

~~~
tptacek
That was I think one of the greatest videos I have seen in the last 5 years,
despite it capturing Wire in their ill-advised Public Image Limited phase.

~~~
gruseom
Oh, I'm glad I checked back in here to read that. A month or two ago Dangerous
Minds posted a late 70s Wire concert from Rockpalast (German TV show which is
now perhaps the greatest archive of punk-new wave bands at their peaks) and it
was stunning. It's been taken down, but there are still clips up.

------
mrgoldenbrown
In my view (having never met or worked for him), Pincus will always be the guy
who bragged about making money no matter what it takes, even if it means
screwing over users with mal/spy/ad-ware. But it is important to remember that
people are multifaceted, and might treat some people well, even if he treats
others like crap.

~~~
rhizome
Yes, I'm sure his kids love him.

------
generalpf
This sounds kind of like the Valve circle-jerking, except Valve is actually
profitable.

Given Zynga's balance sheet, I'd do the exact opposite of what Mark Pincus
does.

------
jbarham
I can't help but wonder if there's a correlation between "spending many late
nights at the office" and the fact that the OP had a heart attack at the age
of 21...

------
xoail
Not sure why people up vote and then trash it in comments. This is good read
and something positive about Zynga's master mind.

~~~
wmeredith
An up vote is not a sign of agreement. It means that the subject matter is
interesting and merits discussion.

------
zwass
Regardless of the truth of this story, I hope someday to have a manager/mentor
that works with me with such care and talent.

------
trotsky
We seem to want everyone to be one dimensional, but nobody on earth is.In the
90's Gates was synonymous with evil in the tech collective consciousness, yet
now he relentlessly works to improve the lives of millions. In the last decade
jobs was elevated to near deity status by many, despite his status as a
legendary dick. People are complex, deal with it.

~~~
rdouble
At my first startup, the founder was a legendary dick to almost everyone, but
he was always cool to me.

------
doe88
Most of the time people think things are necessarily black or white, but often
it is somewhere in the middle and may also depend in the context. I believe he
genuinely thinks what he wrote and it might be his truth. Of course, it
doesn't discard all the justified criticisms on Marc Pincus, it is just
another side, there are not mutually exclusive imo.

------
chris_gogreen
You know what else you saw while at Zynga? The stock price drop like a rock.
They spent two months teaching you things someone in your position of
Technical Assistant to CEO of a public company should already know. This is an
example of poor allocation of resources.

------
nineteenturtles
This is not a pro Zynga blog post.

The main point of the story that the OP was highly valued by Zynga, but he
left anyway. It details his rapid access to key people and that his old boss
begged him to stay (multiple hour convo at boss' house).

It's sort of like saying your old girlfriend was super into you, and begged
you to stay with her, but you left her anyway. Most people might agree that
making a public declaration of this would not be doing her any favors.

A reasonable person could consider this post unprofessional. Zygna (whatever
your personal opinion of the company) was singing his paychecks and could be
considered to deserve the sort of respect many people give former employers in
public.

------
joshschreuder
Just as a little side-story, it would appear as though Sash is the same person
from dcurtis's The Fight blog post: <http://dcurt.is/the-fight>

------
raverbashing
I find the reaction about the text interesting

For one, apparently no one saw "The Devil Wears Prada"

Oh I am sure Pincus is everything (bad) they say of him. Every word.

What we were missing is someone that's capable of adapting to his style and
seeing the things beyond that.

Yes, sorry, 'his style' is usually an euphemism for 'making people cry and
being awful', but there's more to it than that usually (because of what he
did).

"Angry bosses" are a dime a dozen, but only few of them manage what MP has
achieved (with a lot of moral issues, I'm sure).

------
cpressey
_He came into the room and sat on the arm of a chair with his feet resting on
the seat._

I have to assume that wasn't a typical conference-room chair -- or it was
_really_ well engineered.

------
joezhou
Cool, I just realized I'm doing something very similar for my job.

------
Macsenour
I read it and my first thought was: YMMV

(Your Millage May Vary)

------
grindall
Obviously it was a positive write up. If it was negative he wouldn't be
posting it. The post was useless.

