

Obama's view on schools - cadalac
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-schools5-2009nov05,0,3477080.story

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dkarl
Way to lead by example, Obama. It's kind of pathetic, but this story (assuming
the right people hear about it) could actually open some eyes. His kid gets a
C, and he doesn't just get angry at the teacher and demand a better grade.
What a concept! Too many parents don't believe in education or skills; they
think education is a sham, schools just anoint "winners in life," and _public_
schools have no business discriminating when they hand out tickets to the
middle class.

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patio11
I don't think I'll ever agree with him on policy, but if he convinces the
country that going from a C to a 95 is "acting black", I will happily anoint
him my favorite president ever.

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btilly
In general I think these changes are better than nothing, except for the
exceptions where they work out horribly.

<http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/39809> mentions the interesting example of
a teacher who teaches Russian immigrants. No matter how well she teaches,
she's got the huge disadvantage that her students start with no proficiency in
English and so are guaranteed to do well. Pay for performance rules are a
strong disincentive for taking on tough challenges like that.

Still the current system is so horribly broken that I am personally willing to
put up with breakage like that.

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bokonist
In any sort of sane pay for performance system the teacher would be judged
based on improvement from when the student entered their class. ( not that I
expect any sort of sane pay-for-performance scheme to be implemented)

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unalone
This sounds great, but for the fact that most of the things students are being
reviewed on are meaningless bullshit. How are teachers being measured? By AP
scores? Grades overall? Because as a still-fresh departure from grade school,
I'm pretty sure 90% of the stuff I was tested on was bullshit. My teachers
knew that and let me get away with poor grades so I could learn what I wanted
to, and _that's_ where I learned. If every teacher's now being taught that
they should be pushing their students to get good grades, I predict we won't
see much good come out of this initiative.

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dschobel
You learned how to jump through hoops and perform passable work on things
which didn't necessarily interest you.

In other words, real world training.

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unalone
If that's how you view the real world you're in the wrong line of work.

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tokenadult
"For one thing, Obama called for the abolition of 'firewall' rules, which
presently prevent many schools from judging teacher performance based on
student performance."

I suppose in most cases those rules are consequences of contract provisions
insisted upon by teacher union representatives.

[http://www.amazon.com/Teacher-Unions-Sabotage-Educational-
Re...](http://www.amazon.com/Teacher-Unions-Sabotage-Educational-
Reform/dp/189355421X/)

~~~
roundsquare
Maybe. If so, then the policy being suggested here would be to disallow these
provisions (or at least discourage them). Maybe something like increased pay
for loss of "firewall."

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pmichaud
The main argument against this is that teachers might be penalized for
teaching in rough schools instead of lily-white. middle class, suburban
schools. I don't see a reason the system couldn't be set up to normalize the
schools based on what the metrics turn out to be.

I guess each school would get a performance index that would act as a
coefficient for the teachers there. E.g., the metric is a test score, and one
school consistently scores near the national average, while another is 10
points lower. The teachers at the lower school would have their evaluation
bumped 10 points because of the index. That way we'd be comparing apples to
applies.

It could actually incentivize teachers to move into more difficult schools if
the index were a little over done so that they were rewarded slightly more for
the same effort. Their effort would theoretically move the school's average
into line with the national average, then they'd be evaluated/paid the same --
they could then move on to the next problem school, and improve that.

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tptacek
I'd be pissed right now if I was Malia. What the hell, Dad?

~~~
btilly
Can you think of a clearer way for him to let his daughters know that bad
grades are unacceptable in the Obama household?

In fact it makes me wonder how he motivated her to improve her grade to
95%....

~~~
roundsquare
But letting his daughters know that isn't the _only_ criteria he should be
using. Not embarrassing her in public is useful other criteria.

Agreed though, I would like to know...

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andreyf
There's no such thing as public education. Education happens to exactly one
person at a time. There are some things that you just have to do by yourself.
And there’s no such thing as compulsory education. Education is something that
each of us gives to ourselves or allows others to give us. [1]

We need a culture of intrinsic ambition and excellence - among students, among
teachers, and among professionals. Focusing on fake heuristics - grades,
standardized tests, gold stars - only teaches one to cheat, not to personally
excel.

1\. <http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0208f.asp>

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wsprague
I know people who work in social services who have noticed a change in the
last generation. Before, you would think twice before telling a working class
parent that the child misbehaved because the parent might discipline too
harshly. Today, the parents always assume the kids are right when they come
home whining about how mean the teacher was. Don't know which is better or
worse....

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joshhart
So this is the exact opposite of no child left behind? Sweet!

