
In a Hot Labor Market, Some Employees Are 'Ghosting' Bad Bosses - DontGiveTwoFlux
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/25/688303552/in-a-hot-labor-market-some-employees-are-ghosting-on-bad-bosses
======
callinyouin
Reading these comments, it seems like a lot of HNers don't understand how
awful the power dynamic can be between workers and bosses outside of a
tech/white-collar context. Sure, office work can be toxic, but at places like
bars, restaurants, fast food, etc. where workers are mostly unskilled and
turnover is high, management can be outright exploitative.

People who work for minimum wage generally have no leverage when it comes to
how they're treated and often put up with a lot of abuse because if they quit
and miss that next paycheck chances are they won't be able to make rent or buy
food. Their bosses know this and the worst of them know exactly how to exploit
it.

I've heard plenty of horror stories, mostly including your typical verbal
abuse and sexual harassment, but a surprising amount were more extreme. Things
like threats of violence and extortion. This pales in comparison to some of
the things I've heard, but at one job I was called "retarded" by my boss on my
first day and it only got worse from there. I didn't ghost, but I did quit on
the spot once I had my fill. That employer didn't deserve a 2 week notice, and
13 years later I still stand by that.

Due to the power dynamic people will put up with this for months, even years,
on end. When a worker has had enough is it really any surprise they would
ghost? Can you really blame them?

~~~
throwaway5752
So, it's been a while, but I have worked some of the jobs you mentioned. I
didn't find management or coworkers substantially better or worse than in
software/white collar. Not to say everyone was angels, I'm just saying it was
comparable to software, which has its share of jerks (sometimes that has
included me). Agree with you that power dynamic is different, as is corporate
structure (intrinsically more site/region based) that also makes it harder to
report an abusive person in the chain.

But it sounds like you had a truly abusive manager, and you still didn't
ghost, to your credit.

------
anchpop
A company will fire you with absolutely no hesitation or mercy if they feel it
is good for their bottom line, with no respect for your personal well-being.
However, I feel that informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably
easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like
common decency to me

~~~
masklinn
> informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do
> which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency
> to me

Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. If your boss is an asshole
and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common
decency".

It's not like that sort of company puts a single dime in "common decency" when
time comes for layoffs or firing people, instead they get company security and
their stuff shoved in a cardboard box.

If the company is decent and you're quitting because you've found a great job
or you think you deserve a raise and they don't agree, sure put in your two
weeks and everything. The article specifically talks about bad bosses though,
so that probably ain't the subject.

~~~
throwaway5752
_" Decency and respect in general is a two-way street"_

No it isn't. Decency and respect is a way you choose to conduct yourself.

I treat everyone with decency and respect. I choose not to associate with
people that are immoral or toxic, but I will treat them with decency and
respect because I will not let someone else's conduct dictate how I act. If
your boss is bad, resign as soon as possible with 2 weeks notice and wipe your
hands of it.

~~~
FilterSweep
When one party conducts themselves with decency, and the other doesn’t
(employer), the decent one is ripe for being taken advantage of.

~~~
stcredzero
Instead of descending to their level, how about you take yourself out of the
bad situation? This sort of grievance morality is just, "An eye for an eye,
making the whole world blind."

~~~
watwut
When your focus is on removing yourself, you will eventually run from
everywhere having limited options where to go. Also leave all the bullies
targeting even weaker people. Or just become enabler, because not enabling
became something bad.

~~~
stcredzero
Ghosting is running. Not only is it running, but it's degrading our collective
life and common courtesy.

------
oasisbob
With at-will employment and layoffs being what they are, the only thing gauche
about this would seem to be the lack of notification to the employer.

Having seen several mass "firing-squad" style layoffs where there's a meeting
and some go right while others go left, I've always wondered why two-weeks
notice is so engrained culturally when an employee decides to leave on their
own.

~~~
EpicEng
>I've always wondered why two-weeks notice is so engrained culturally when an
employee decides to leave on their own.

I'm torn. On one hand, just not showing up is a pretty crappy thing to do to
anyone in any situation. On the other, you're right; a company may be
perfectly fine leaving you high and dry without notice. Sometimes people in
our position get severance or even a heads up, but often times people don't.
It's not fair, but I suppose the reality is that many will want a good
recommendation, but no one pegs the boss with a layoff.

~~~
paulie_a
Do people actually call for recommendations? Hell I just use a coworker I
worked extensively with. I've been asked to be a recommendation by previous
co-workers and rarely get a call. It has declined over the past ten years.
References seem to be a dead thing. It's a waste of time. Of course they are
going to be positive. I can't imagine someone would list a reference where
they say "fuck that person"

~~~
crankylinuxuser
There's even services that you can pay, that will claim to be the so_and_so's
supervisor or colleague or whomever to play the references game.

They are indeed worthless. Well, unless you're going through clearance
paperwork that requires proof of people for things you say happen. Don't like
there. It __will __come back and bite you; with felonies.

~~~
paulie_a
That sounds like fraud regardless if it is for security clearance or not.

------
throwaway5752
1\. In a layoff your boss doesn't fire you, most of the time they don't want
to lose anyone. It happens above their level.

2\. If you think a corporation gives no-warning layoffs is wrong, then don't
reciprocate, take the high road. It's nursery school level life advice: "two
wrongs don't make a right"

3\. If you are young, the world may seem big. It is not. It is small. There's
a good chance you'll run across your boss or a friend of their's in future.
Don't burn bridges.

4\. It is generally considered polite to offer 2 weeks, offer extra time to
ensure an orderly transition, to do as much as possible to make sure there are
no difficult loose ends for a successor, and to leave your contact info with
an offer to help if any questions come up.

Just be decent and you will live a happier life.

~~~
masklinn
> 1\. In a layoff your boss doesn't fire you, most of the time they don't want
> to lose anyone. It happens above their level.

That's relevant how?

> 2\. If you think a corporation gives no-warning layoffs is wrong, then don't
> reciprocate, take the high road. It's nursery school level life advice: "two
> wrongs don't make a right"

Here's more nursery school level life advice: respect is a two-way street.

> 3\. If you are young, the world may seem big. It is not. It is small. You
> may run across your boss or a friend of their's in future. Don't burn
> bridges.

Or do, life's too short to keep building bridges into raging tire fires.

> 4\. It is generally considered polite to offer 2 weeks, offer extra time to
> ensure an orderly transition, to do as much as possible to make sure there
> are no difficult loose ends for a successor, and to leave your contact info
> with an offer to help if any questions come up.

Meanwhile the company's happy upending your life overnight with no forewarning
and not giving a damn about "orderly transition". If it wants orderly
transition, how about it pays for it?

~~~
sokoloff
> If it wants orderly transition, how about it pays for it?

In every tech industry lay-off I’ve been around, the company has paid
severance equal to or longer than any typical employee quitting notice period.
IOW, IMO, they _are_ paying for it in general.

~~~
manicdee
I'm happy for you that your life has been so stress free.

------
blakesterz
That's a decent headline, I feel like if this story was somewhere else it
would be something like "A HUGE JUMP IN GHOSTING" or something silly. The
article says "There's no official data on ghosting at work." so all they can
really say it's maybe going up now. "Some Employees" seems like a good choice
of words there.

~~~
MrMember
NPR isn't perfect, but in my experience they're leagues ahead of most other
major news outlets.

------
mnm1
Way to go Kris. I agree with him: if ghosting will cost the employer more and
that employer has disrespected you, go for the ghosting. It is indeed easily
as much a statement and as satisfying as any other method of quitting. So many
employers treat their employees like shit that I feel this is what they should
expect in probably 90% or more of cases. Employers' complaints will fall on
deaf ears when they have been abusing employees for literally the entire
existence of this relationship throughout history. Even jobs that pay well and
have great perks (tech for example) often treat their employees like shit and
then they complain that they can't hire enough or retain their employees. I
generally prefer to always send a note and make things clear, but if I could
hurt the employer who hurt me more by ghosting, I would definitely do that.

Employers should learn how to respect their employees if they don't want this
and other things to happen to them. Otherwise, they deserve this and worse.
They could have paid the couple thousand Kris requested and was promised in
raises instead of losing $20k but they were assholes. They got what they
deserved those fucking pieces of shit.

~~~
paradygm
You do realize in that $15-$20k is all of the other employees' pay for that
day?

~~~
yummypaint
its the same amount of money, but not their pay

------
motohagiography
While I haven't ghosted anyone, if you are sure you will not be able to get an
honest reference from them because they were dishonest people, if they say you
ghosted them, at least it's clear to anyone asking that there is another side
to the story.

Let's say you worked at a Theranos, your options are a) to quit amicably with
the real risk they will try to discredit you to protect their reputation, b)
stay and become compromised until you are thrown under the bus and fired, or
c) cut off all contact and create uncertainty about how much leverage you
could have while you move on and rebuild.

Barring martyring yourself as a whistle blower with or without evidence, c)
looks pretty good. Looking back viewed through a lens like this, I can say
people could even regret not-ghosting some former employers.

------
projectramo
The problem with ghosting -- all forms of ghosting -- isn't that you break up
or quit but that you don't bother to tell the other person.

While the break up/quit might be initiated more often when one has "market
power", there is no reason people should become less or more polite while
doing so.

To put it another way, you might job hop more if the market is hot just as you
may date more if you are very attractive, but that doesn't mean you can or
should be less polite.

~~~
moate
The assumption that an employer deserves information from me as an employee is
rather bold unless it was specifically put into my contract. I was hired for a
specific task, and while many people accept being data-mined as "just part of
the job", I'm not being paid for it.

Put it another way, it's not my job to be polite. It's nice, and helpful, and
might help me do my job. But that isn't the job itself. All employment is
transactional. Period.

(edited for grammar)

~~~
projectramo
I am curious as to what you mean by this.

Sure it isn't your "job" and nothing bad may happen to you. Just as nothing
bad will happen to you if you berate a small child without reason.

Even if there is no punishment or heaven/hell, and there are not legal issues,
that doesn't mean you should not be a kind person.

If it doesn't cost you anything and it will make the life of your employer (or
a complete stranger for that matter), I suggest you go ahead and do it.

I don't have an argument for why. I assume as a fellow human being you just
see that it is a good (TM) thing.

~~~
moate
1- I work with people, but I work for a company. This is an extremely
important point to clarify. I don't work for people, even if the company is
represented by people.

2- Being kind is great. Love it. Do it all the time.

Here's where the problem comes in with your hypothetical, and my baseline
assumption: "If it doesn't cost you anything and it will make the life of your
employer (or a complete stranger for that matter), I suggest you go ahead and
do it."

 _This Is A Bold Assumption You Are Making_

Quitting a job isn't easy. There's going to be guilt. There's going to be
stress. And, based on the title of the article, you have a bad boss. What form
this "bad" takes can be a million different things, but it's safe to say that
having a shitty conversation with a bad boss is going to cost me "something"
(even if it's just my time).

Respect is earned. That's my starting point. If I no-call no-show, it's
because I don't respect you enough to care about the damage it will cause the
company. I'm generally not a blatant asshole, so something probably happened
in order for me to feel this way.

If we want to go down this rabbit hole, it gets to crazy levels of ethical
questions (is it "good" to quit a job you're great at just because you don't
like it, since that will cause problems for the person who has to train your
replacement and they likely won't do it as well as you, potentially costing
the company money in losses, etc .)

My summary is this: If I'm ghosting you, it's probably you're fault. You
should take this time to reflect on why you sucked so bad that I wouldn't even
have the decency to call you to let you know I quit. YMMV.

------
xwvvvvwx
As pointed out by the article, this is forcing employers to treat their
workers better.

Despite it’s brutal distortions, the labour market does sometimes work in the
advantage of workers.

------
m-i-l
_"... on a busy summer day, Kris didn't show up to open the park ... I
ultimately caused the shutdown of the water park"_

Am I the only one concerned about the lack of respect this shows to customers?
Some families might have travelled a long way to get there as a special day
out, there would certainly be large numbers of disappointed children, etc.
Having a grievance with your boss and/or employer is one thing, but making
innocent bystanders suffer as a result is something else completely.

~~~
Phlarp
Imagine having a business so fragile that a single employee failing to show up
could take down the whole show. This is entry level business school stuff, and
something anybody running a business will learn first hand very quickly.

Would you have any sympathy for management that purposefully made sure they
had a "bus factor" of one and then blamed that person when they inevitably got
hit by our theoretical bus?

Maybe apply the same logic the hardware resources if it helps to think of
things with less of the emotion in talking about a person; The company has a
single consumer grade PC running linux in the corner of a cubicle serving up
the entire companies suite of applications, no load balancing or backups at
all. Many devs and admins have come and gone recommending a more robust
solution but management refuses to consider other options. Whose fault is it
when it falls over?

------
duxup
It really doesn't take much to say "hey I quit". In fact the only really bad
situation I was in, I really looked forward to telling them.

I get the arguments about a bad boss and such, but be the adult and tell them.
Hell telling them might be the best part.

I sorta suspect some of this is actually social awkwardness and folks avoiding
an uncomfortable discussion more than it is some big social commentary about
"bosses bad we have the power now".

------
joejerryronnie
I think ghosting is all about avoiding the anxiety of a stressful situation.
It’s easier to just ignore calls and texts than to actually have to tell
someone face to face that you don’t want them anymore (whether that’s a boss
or a partner). There is no other “noble” purpose of ghosting, like sticking it
to the man. It’s just a childish way of dealing with something.

~~~
acomjean
I suspect you are right. Its not easy quiting face to face, much easier not
showing up. I wonder though. If the company or people you know there would
report you missing...

I've quit two jobs with notice. I'm a little bit conflict averse, and had a
hard time doing it. Like many things its not easy to tell your boss you are
leaving, especially if they job wasn't particularly bad and your boss is
decent. For one I was going back to school, thats easier.

The first one I actually said the company will survive without me, which got a
chuckle.

------
raverbashing
Funny, after years of recruiters and bosses having the upper hand they
suddenly find out that what comes around goes around.

It is bad practice, but it seems it is justifiable sometimes (like the water
park case)

~~~
maxxxxx
It's justifiable but it's kind of sad that there is a downward spiral of bad
behavior.

------
yummypaint
I hope people trapped in toxic or unsafe work environments use this
opportunity to ghost and make it a more common tactic. I think of it as a one
time strike that your employer is powerless to prevent. Eventually management
will catch on and factor ghosting into their cost-benefit analysis. I think
overall the effect would be positive (unless you make your living exploiting
others).

People in places with crippled labor laws should consider coordinated
ghosting. If the bargaining power attainable through a union has been whittled
away to the point that ghosting provides more leverage, then ghosting should
be adopted. The more common the tactic becomes, the less potential downside
for people who adopt it.

------
expathacker
I recently began a new position at a company which has had a bit of turbulence
in the past year. While getting up to speed someone said, "We had this other
guy a while back who was great, but he ghosted us and we didn't realized it
until we checked our AAA logs to see when he had last authenticated".

I wondered if it was an old colleague of mine with a 15+ year reputation for
ghosting employers when he was burned out, so I asked, and of course it was.

I usually leave on good enough terms to have a conversation with my boss, but
I ghosted an incredibly abusive employer once, and it felt pretty good.

------
sevensor
I had a co-worker pull this once. Let's call him Larry. Larry is not his name.
It wasn't because of management, although Larry was not a great fan of the
management. It's because there was a woman in our work group Larry was head-
over-heels in love with. She resigned the right way, with several weeks'
notice, because she and her husband were moving to another state. (Larry was
not her husband.) Her last day at work was the last time we ever saw or heard
from Larry.

------
elindbe2
I personally find ghosting to be a quite useful strategy in a limited range of
scenarios. The scenario is basically whenever you need to reject someone but
rejecting them directly would lead to significant costs to you (e.g. having to
listen to someone argue, cajole or shout at you to change your mind). I think
the rejectees can reduce the incidence of ghosting by eliminating those costs.
If someone rejects you, simply accept the rejection without complaint.

~~~
renholder
>If someone rejects you, simply accept the rejection without complaint.

Ghosting and rejecting are not immediately synonymous to someone who's never
been ghosted before. In fact, ghosting is still a relatively new term, in this
sense, confined to originating within this decade (I believe). Stating for
someone to simply accept the rejection without complaint is expecting it to be
a standard _everywhere_ , when that most probably is not going to be the case.

Ghosting seems to specific to the American culture and, even then, this
doesn't implicitly mean that _everyone_ will "get the hint", as it were, if
they've never been exposed to it before.

~~~
elindbe2
I'm not claiming ghosting and rejection are synonymous. Rather, I'm saying
ghosting is a useful way of rejecting someone in certain circumstances. I'm
also not claiming that one can completely eliminate ghosting by accepting
rejection, but I think you'll find it reduced.

------
hopler
This is non-news. People have been walking away from jobs forever. That's way
employment policies have rules about when persist absence is considered a
resignation.

~~~
JackFr
At a place I worked about 20 years ago, new hire in my group goes out lunch on
his first day and never comes back.

It was an amusing non-event but the VP continually gave my boss grief for not
taking the new hire out to lunch on his first day, as if that were the cause.
I'm pretty sure the guy had another offer and was just sort of trying this one
out. But my boss was diligent after that about taking new hires out to lunch
on their first day.

~~~
conanbatt
Until one day, your boss didn't come back from lunch. So the VP now has to ban
lunches.

------
hkon
In IT recruiting, which I am exposed to since I have a linked-in account,
there is a constant buzz of recruiters reaching out cold. I don't feel any
obligation to answer them back about this and that. Because if you do, then
they make you feel really bad about letting them down.

I fear that this will be another term that LinkedIn recruiters can throw in
your face to make you respond. "Are you ghosting me???"

~~~
gwbas1c
They pretty much know that IT has a very low response rate. Someone who starts
following up like that will get banned from LinkedIn.

~~~
hkon
So that's why the same guy keeps adding me. Hah, never thought of it.

------
randomacct3847
At the same time as I read this, I’m reading about upset 20 and 30-something
Buzzfeed reporters getting laid off after 2-7 years there. I guess it is never
great to be involuntarily let go from a company, but if you have the mindset
that jobs are fluid (both ways) then getting laid off should not be viewed as
the end of the world or something you or others around you should feel sorry
about.

~~~
deadmetheny
They should just learn to code, like all those coal miners who lost their
jobs.

~~~
notfromhere
what a dumb sentiment, the world needs reporters just as much as they need
coders

~~~
deadmetheny
Ah yes, Buzzfeed reporters, the finest and most reputable of journalists, the
world is most definitely reeling from the loss of their jobs.

~~~
erulabs
To be fair, despite the name, buzzfeed news has won a ton of awards and broken
a lot of important stories. I know, I was shocked too. But Ze Frank is a hero
of mine so maybe I’m biased. I dislike buzzfeed.com as much as any other male,
don’t fret.

------
cafard
I have always given two weeks notice. I was not necessarily crazy about those
I gave it to, but none of the employers truly counted as toxic.

I have seen co-workers simply vanish. This did not necessarily have to do with
their disagreements with the employer. It was disconcerting. Did the guy fall
off the face of the earth?

------
jackconnor
This isn't the classiest thing you can do, and a little risky if someone took
it way too personally, but not the worst thing inn the world. But, ultimately,
this is strong feedback to the employer that something is wrong with a manager
or person, and at least deserves a closer look.

------
drugme
I'm all for quitting on the spot, when the situation merits. And for costing
the company $15k to $20k -- again, when the situation merits. As it appears to
have done in this case.

But still - given the overall narrative of the situation, it sill would be
been a lot classier to have given proper notice in this case. Something short
and sweet like:

 _" I've been trying for several weeks to work with bring my compensation in
line with the very clear promises you made several months ago, but
unfortunately you've been consistently unresponsive. I am now left with no
choice but to terminate my services immediately. Sincerely, Kris_

would be a lot easier to look back on (and explain to future employers) - and
would have definitely gotten the message across.

------
dandare
Never by loyal to a company. Company is not a person, it can never be loyal to
you and it will alway protect the interest of the shareholder. Be loyal to
your boss if he deserves it, but never to a legal entity.

------
pascalxus
I mean, it's just another case of companies not paying their employees enough
or not showing enough gratitude/valuing their workers. Employers just need to
learn and understand the basics of how supply and demand work - I guess a lot
of CEO and managers skipped that class or something. You pay more, you get
more applicants. You treat them well/pay them well, they'll stick with you.

------
FilterSweep
I had to blink at this headline.

It’s 2019 and it appears this headline was better fit for 5 years ago.

I work as a dev, and I still have to climb through hoops and spend money on
multiple technical interviews to get hired. Friends in other industries will
sometimes even have it harder.

Where are these plentiful jobs? Where is this labor market so great that
employees can just walk out on a whim? _This seems like NPR is out of touch._

~~~
the_watcher
This has been covered by far more than NPR - unemployment is at its lowest
number in years, and labor force participation is actually up (so it's not
that the rate is declining because people are simply leaving the workforce).
The difference is that the vast majority of jobs are low skill, meaning that
if another firm will offer a better deal, it's very easy for employees to
simply walk. If you wanted to get _a_ job, you'd easily be able to.

Wages, however, are not growing at the same rate, which is probably more
related to your experience.

------
danschumann
Morally, I would do the traditional notice ( 2 weeks at least ), because I try
to "honor everyone".. but this would be harder if I had a bad boss and could
start somewhere else immediately. I'd still probably do my best to make sure
everyone is taken care of.

As with bad service at a restaurant, I still leave a normal tip, because it
reflects more on me than on the server.

------
lordnacho
Remote work puts a spin on this. If someone is remote and not logging in,
there's just not much to do about it for the employer. Is the person ill? Are
they just using the flexibility to work at different times? Should you keep
paying them?

~~~
le-mark
I heard stories of a guy who did this; was local, then went remote, and then
didn't vpn in for months. There was a whole story around it, but ended up
taking management a few more months to get him fired. This was a process heavy
company obviously. But this AWOL person made at least 6 months of salary for
not doing a damn thing.

------
at-fates-hands
I had a buddy (I'll call him Alex) with whom I've worked with at several
contracting gigs. Good guy, and has gotten me some pretty lucrative roles, but
drama followed the guy wherever he went. I've worked with him on at least five
short term contracts roles. Every single one he ghosted for one reason or
another.

First one - We were both hired as FED's. It was at a large corporation. We got
about a week in and he tells me was put on active duty (he was in the Army)
and just ghosted. Never told the manager, myself, nobody. Manager starts
pressing me because the recruiter can't get a hold of him. I tell the manager
I don't have any contact info for him and told the manager he told me he got
put back on active duty.

Second one - "Hey bud, we're together again at XYZ company!!" Was the email I
got from him over LinkedIN. First day I ask the manager where he was as we
were friends and worked together before. Manager says he has no idea where he
is. Three days later, three more no calls/no shows. Disappears again. I can't
get him on gmail chat, linkedin, nothing. Just gone again.

Third one - I recommended him to a hiring manager who was desperate for
bodies. I wasn't happy, and told Alex this gig is a dumpster fire and not to
take the gig. He didn't listen. Shows up the first day, gets his laptop, and
is constantly at my desk, "Dude, why are they doing stuff this way? This is so
stupid." Second day worked a half day and just left out the blue and that was
it. Took his MacBook Pro with him and ghosted everybody again. I left a few
weeks later so I'm not sure they ever got their laptop back.

Fourth one - He was already working at a cool gig and got me an interview and
then I landed another FED role with him. The two projects they were banking on
evaporated and got canceled. They started laying off people in droves. The
area we sat in had maybe 25 contractors. Within a week, we were down to 12.
After that first week, he figured he was next so he just stopped showing up,
but he kept filling out his timesheet. Found out later they paid him for three
weeks he never showed up for.

Last one - in 2013, we both were hired at this sweet startup. First month
things are peachy. I figure maybe this is it, Alex finally got his shit
together and he'll actually stick around. Nope. Second month, things started
getting harder. Crunch time was coming around. Longer days, nose to the
grindstone, all that. The following week Monday he's a NC/NS again. By
Wednesday, I start hearing things. By Friday, in a 1:1 with my manager, he
asks me if I can get a hold of Alex for him. I ask why. He tells me on
Tuesday, he got a voicemail from Alex saying, "Loved working there, love you
guys, but I'm fleeing the country, I'll mail my laptop back when I get to
where I'm going." I just told the manager, "While that is pretty crazy, I'm
not really surprised."

That was the last time I heard from until a recruiter called this year me
asking about him because he was putting him in for an interview at one of the
clients, a big Fortune 500 company. I honestly had no idea how to respond to
the idea he could continue to be gainfully employed after all the shit he's
pulled on multiple companies and multiple recruiters.

------
paulcole
I've done this before for a job that wasn't worth the stress and hassle.
Unplugged my phone and went out of town for a week. One of the best decisions
I've ever made.

~~~
gwbas1c
Did they pay you?

~~~
paulcole
I honestly don’t remember lol. I think I got mailed a check but I must’ve
blocked that whole time out of my memory.

------
siruncledrew
What I've seen from working in an office floor of ~70 people:

\- Ghosting is w/e but seems kinda petty or social awkward depending on the
circumstance. People have ghosted before, and the office still went on pretty
much as normal. It's only annoying to other employees when the person ghosting
drops a huge unexpected load of work on their old coworkers or project team.
Then it screws over innocent bystanders more than bosses.

\- Employers/Employees sometimes try to go tit-for-tat on being an asshole to
each other. Usually nobody wins in this case. Sometimes it gets quite childish
where employees complain about bosses to management, then bosses come back and
complain about employees, and there's a cycle of bitterness until one side
wears down the other. Get out if that happens.

\- Instances of asshole behavior:

1\. There was an issue from upper management to a manager, who then passed off
the project to his team. The manager and the team put in a lot of work on the
project (stayed late some days to get a faster turnaround to the execs) saying
this would make their team look really good. After the project was complete,
the manager passed it over to the execs and basically took credit for the
entire thing without giving individual acknowledgement to the team. Total dick
move.

2\. A guy was laid off, and decided to give the boss a piece of his mind. It
went from "Yea!" to "Yikes.." At first he summarized what was wrong with the
workplace, which was cool. However, then it got into a diatribe about how
personally awful the boss and management are. A lot of insults were said. He
said the boss's daughter (who was a part-time intern) was a "slut-looking
nepotistic dumbass", then pushed a bunch of stuff off a desk and said he would
"mail, ring, and email" the boss everyday to tell him how terrible he was
until he killed himself. Funny thing was after this was over, the guy left and
put his hand up for a high-five from his coworkers like "I showed him!".

3\. Another person really didn't like their job roles, and thought they would
be totally different based on the interviews. He ended up taking another job a
few months after being hired, but not before deleting all of his work and a
repository that took hours to restore as a sort of "F U" for wasting his time
with work he wasn't interested in doing. That was actually super annoying, and
all of us remembered that guy for it.

4\. Corporate "trialed" no timesheets by doing data analysis on badge
detections to tell when employees were coming/leaving instead. It took no time
before people realized it's a malicious convenience offering, and it was
(supposedly) ended. The corporate thought behind it was pretty disrespectful
and micro-managing.

Bonus: One time a manager and employee were fired for working together to sell
credit card numbers from legitimate B2B sales on the darkweb as a "side
hustle".

------
sol_remmy2
How come employers can't blacklist these badly behaving employees who don't
give any notice before they quit?

Because government regulations only allows past employers to verify that 1)
yes the employee worked here 2) this was his job title and 3) these are the
date ranges when he worked. Telling anything about "was he a good employee or
not" is grounds for a lawsuit.

That has removed incentives for employees to give notice before they quit.

