
What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman - odedgolan
https://medium.com/@odedgolan/what-i-ve-learned-from-sitting-next-to-a-pro-salesman-faa19b5f38c7#.n0q9qnxqd
======
tptacek
The bit about cold calls working better than anticipated rings true. I advised
a company I help out with not to bother cold calling, because it never works,
and was embarrassed to learn a few months later that it had been extremely
effective just to have the founder ring random people up.

The bit about remembering names, deploying kids names, and talking about
football --- that part does not ring true. I've done sales work for my last
startup, and before that a as a product manager had a sales-support role where
most of the people I talked to every day were account managers, and even
though I know this "talk about football" stuff is what salespeople are
supposedly doing, I never saw that happen.

Taking people out to dinner? Obviously, different story. But on the phone,
especially early on? All business.

The most important thing I think salespeople do that ordinary people don't do
is Ask For The Sale.

~~~
Frondo
Cold calling is great! Well, because it's never absolutely cold--you _do_ know
that the person you're calling is at least a little interested in what you're
selling. It's not random.

As for remembering names, kids' names, etc., you're right, it's hokey to just
try and build up a memorandum on a person and play-act at being a friend. What
happens, though, when you spend a while talking with someone, is they do
mention their wife's trip, or their brother coming to town, or whatever, and
after a while, you end up developing a bit of a friendship. Not a "let's go
hiking on the weekends" relationship, but a small friendship all the same. You
remember their kids' names simply because you take an interest in who they are
as people, and in my experience, they do the same for you.

It's actually kinda neat.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>Cold calling is great! Well, because it's never absolutely cold--you do know
that the person you're calling is at least a little interested in what you're
selling. It's not random.

No, that's not cold-calling. Cold-calling refers to picking up the phone and
calling people you have never spoken to before and will most likely not be
interested -- at least initially -- in what you are selling. But if it's
people you have spoken to briefly at a trade show, then you aren't cold-
calling. You're following up.

Note that cold-calling doesn't have to be "random". In fact, calling companies
and people randomly almost never works. You need to have a strategy in place
and need to have done what's called "prospecting". For instance, if a
construction company just became your client, then calling other construction
companies and talking about how that company is using your product or service
has a much higher chance of getting you at least one in-person meeting.

~~~
Frondo
To clarify, I agree, if it's not the first they've heard from you, it's not
cold calling. I do mean, though, that when you pick up the phone to cold call
someone, you aren't calling at random- you're already calling someone who's in
the right industry or whatever to have a chance of being interested in your
product.

------
grecy
This sounds like a lot of the great advice in How to Win Friends and Influence
People [1]

I read that book yearly, and learn something every time.

[1]
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/0671027034/?tag=roadchoseme-20](http://www.amazon.com/dp/0671027034/?tag=roadchoseme-20)

~~~
sean-duffy
This is what I was thinking when I read this post - pretty much anything you
read online about marketing seems to just be stuff that was already said 80
years ago in that book.

------
snowwrestler
These tactics work. I purchase technology for an "enterprisey" type company
and these definitely help make sales to me.

 _However_ , they do not work on their own. There still needs to be a strong
value proposition, good fit between the product and the need, lots of
technical info to satisfy suspicion and curiosity, a reasonable contract, etc.

What these tactics do is help get the conversation to a place where it can be
substantive. I'm busy, you're busy, we're all busy. I'm going to say no,
reflexively, to any conversation I'm not initiating or continuing--to anyone I
don't recognize.

If someone sounds tentative or scared, if they don't seem to know a thing
about me or my employer, if they can't just hold a normal human conversation,
I don't know why I would want to talk to them.

Any product or service that is sold by a person is going to involve a
relationship. Services and products need training, support, and improvements.
The sales person is almost always going to be my champion in that
relationship, because they want an easy renewal or upgrade. So if I don't
trust the salesperson, it's hard to trust that I will get the support and
service I'm sure I will need at some point.

------
hesdeadjim
At this point I don't answer a call that isn't in my contacts. I sign up for a
trial of some cloud service and it is like clockwork, 2-3 days afterwards I
get a cold call from someone in sales. It's like they are all following the
same playbook at this point and it's ruined the effectiveness of the strategy,
at least on me...

~~~
ddingus
It still works.

One of the hard parts about sales is understanding that people don't like to
be pitched, or intruded on, and balancing that with the fact that the product
or service may well be to their benefit!

If you had a good friend struggling somehow, and you knew you could save them
a lot of money, time and effort would you not strongly desire to communicate
that to them?

And when you are struggling, don't you want answers?

What about when you don't know you are struggling?

That's why the strategy works. Good people will not make the call painful. I
have similar experiences to yours with cloud services. Honestly, I'm not sure
they always have the best people attempting those phone calls...

One thing highlighted in the article, but not completely expressed is the
concept of adding value to the phone call. All the charm and basic human
communication is needed to get somebody talking. From there, being able to
help them, or give them something of value can often make the phone call
higher value. This could be a stat or metric they can consider, or a
qualifier. "Are you... ?"

Doing this is important as a few "check in" calls over an extended period of
time are actually welcome things in more cases, and when that's true, the
sales person experiences a much higher close rate and more happy customers and
better relationships. In the example of the qualifier, they make think on it,
and realize "Yes! That's us." When you call back, they share it, and a sale
begins.

They (better sales people) get that, because they took the time to understand
something of who they are talking to and that gives them the ability to make
good use of that understanding, which is seen by the person being talked to as
a reasonable, valuable thing.

I did this in my past, and reached a point where I would make a quick call,
and they were nearly always, "catch up" calls. Take 5 minutes and find out
what is new on both sides, exchange some news, etc... and then get to it,
whatever it is. Over time, increasing numbers of those people would actually
call me when it became time for them to buy. They remembered the nice person
who didn't just pitch them, instead expressing meaningful interest and
understanding.

Begin the week, "catching up on the people who seem like they could benefit
from whatever it is", follow up on anything resulting from that, and contact
"new" or "cold" people to fill in gaps. This kind of cadence brings you a
growing list of familiar and increasingly well qualified people, which is what
you need to build sales. Some people flip it too. Begin the week with all the
follow ups, do new calls, interleave with familiar "catch up" or "check in"
type calls to ease the pain of new calls, etc... Doesn't matter. What does is
the regular, meaningful and consistent contact.

Done well, that interest and understanding IS THE PITCH, because the product
of it is a rational conclusion that a purchase, or no purchase makes sense.
That bit is missing from this quick write up.

~~~
shostack
Flip side:

I get a ton of sales emails each month. Almost no sales calls because I go to
lengths to avoid having my number get out there.

In my space, the ad network sales people and ad tech reps almost never add any
value to the conversation. I would be better served getting technical
documentation as to what actually differentiates them from all of their
competitors (usually nothing).

It is an annoyance and an intrusion on my non-existent free time. The worst is
when I receive unsolicited swag in the mail that they then feel obligates me
to talk to them.

I'd be much happier speaking directly with a sales engineer. At least they can
often answer the technical questions I have and not spout some BS answer from
a benefits/features matrix.

~~~
ddingus
Oh, I should ask, just for a curio:

What do you think of high value stuff sent to you? We all get the usual gift
card, gadget, or curio. Whatever.

But I've had somebody actually send me something I might consider buying. Not
the product, just as a gift.

I called 'em. Looked like a $50 - $100 item, and I figured they were serious.
They were.

~~~
shostack
Had a vendor send me a (branded) speaker and phone charger. Got the inevitable
follow-up pestering for a phone call in an expectant manner. Politely declined
stating that I still had zero interest and kept the gift.

Sits in my kitchen now.

~~~
ddingus
Was it any good, or just some obvious swag?

~~~
shostack
[http://authenticpromotions.com/ProductDetails/?productID=550...](http://authenticpromotions.com/ProductDetails/?productID=550181062&PCUrl=1)

Very obviously bulk swag stuff, but decent quality, and the per-unit cost
isn't dirt cheap. Like I said, sits in my kitchen, and my wife and I use it to
listen to music while we cook.

The vendor in question is relatively well-known in their space, and were I in
the market for a new solution in the future, they were on my short list even
before the sales guy initially reached out to me. I just have no interest in
hearing the pitch when I have zero intent to consider a new solution, and know
that their offering isn't THAT different from what I use now.

~~~
ddingus
That one seems almost a waste then.

Thanks.

------
IndoJacco
Training over 1,000s of sales people of SaaS Start-ups by sitting next to them
making the call, I like to share some insights on this topic:

This is a great story BUT: \+ This was a professional, there are few of them
left, also there are fewer and fewer people who like to "talk to a stranger on
the phone" \+ This does not scale for many reasons, you simply can't train
this \+ This only applies to a certain kind of sale

So how do you cold call in a scalable and trainable way - in todays always on
economy:

COLD \+ Never make it COLD - but you can do plenty of other things before you
call, visit their LI profile, retweet something, share their post, etc.

CALL \+ There are many ways to CALL - make it based on their behavior/role,
calling an IT manager on the phone is not going to be appreciated, but calling
an HR person may be. When you call make sure you do something along the
following lines - this can be copied:

1) Make this about them 2) Show them you have done the research (have LI
profile open) 3) Give straight answers if they ask straight questions 4) Do
NOT pitch, instead share how others have benefited 5) Offer them value... 6)
Follow the conversation, ask, listen, summarize what they said... 7) Try to
ask a handful of questions to diagnose their problem, NOT to sell them
something

You can find more via this article: [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-sales-
teams-need-trade-pi...](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-sales-teams-need-
trade-pitches-online-jacco-van-der-kooij)

Hope this helps. Jacco.

------
jhwhite
I really don't like the small talk bit. I don't want to chat about football,
the weather, or necessarily my kid. I love him to death and I think he's
awesome, but I'm usually busy at work. I want to get information, find out
what's actionable, and get back to work.

~~~
JabavuAdams
Yeah, you need to know your audience.

If I get a phone call that starts with "Hi Mr. Adams, how are you?" My
instinctive response is "busy, get to the point."

------
pandaman
I get a lot of recruiters insisting on calling me instead of e-mailing their
vacancies. I figure they aim for the same effect as with sales techniques
described in this article. However, I am not a native English speaker and
these calls end even faster than an e-mail conversation.

It's much easier to decline in a foreign language than in your own. All the
emotional cues get filtered through the language barrier and even if I
understand them perfectly they do not bear any direct impact.

I suspect I am not the only one so I'd advise people to adjust their cold
calling strategies accordingly. It might be worth to have sales calls in your
target's native tongue even if you are not fluent or switch to e-mail in such
a case.

------
narrator
I know some great commercial real estate brokers. The very successful ones are
the ones that you want to talk with when they call because they are extremely
funny and entertaining. That's the mark of a great salesman. They are so much
fun to be around that you want to take their calls, drive around and look at
property with them, etc.

------
hackuser
> I asked him after what it was about and he told me this dude’s kid was sick
> this week. Why would I care? Why would our salesman care?

This is the fundemental principle in a way. People naturally care about each
other and want to be cared about. It doesn't always work out in practice
because many things can get in the way: Time, stress, competing concerns,
fear, etc. But we're social animals, down to the biological level.
Understanding that about others and about yourself can help you with sales and
with many more important human relations.

------
zzalpha
This is great advice for anyone working with people, period. Folks are a lot
more willing to work with someone who respects them and appears interested in
them as a human being.

And if you're interested in any kind of leadership position, these skills are
absolutely vital, as they are the way you build a rapport with the people
you're leading.

~~~
vox_mollis
> Folks are a lot more willing to work with someone who respects them and
> appears interested in them as a human being.

I suspect you mean "someone who _pretends_ to respect them". You have the
"appears" qualifier correct.

At the end of the day, the Dale Carnegie routine is simply mimicry of the
mores of friendship as a means to an end. Salespeople are charlatan middlemen
social engineers, and do not add value except to organizations whose products
cannot stand on their own merits, in which case they are not actually adding
societal value at all.

------
benbrownww
Great advice for all start ups - from experience at many companies, quite a
few career salespeople miss a number of the points mentioned here. The value
is so easy to extract - we should all be able to let the grammar pass for a
man that is taking the time to share - especially where his first language is
not English.

------
wtbob
If people can get past the poor English (and seriously, his English is much
better than my Hebrew!), this is a great little article about salesmanship.

I particularly like the bit about concluding with something concrete. That's
great advice

~~~
watmough
I think this pretty much applies to anyone who has to talk to people, and get
things done.

I do tech support of complex software for a living, and if something is not
solved on a call, then the best way to leave the call gracefully is to itemize
and describe next steps.

This applies anywhere you are driving a process.

~~~
davidgerard
I'm a Unix sysadmin and I describe my job as 50% public relations. Working
with other people is a problem so hard we evolved a human brain to do it
better.*

* if the social brain hypothesis is true.

------
andersonmvd
Thank you. I sure learned something read your article. Please keep posting :)

------
mikestew
I stuck with it to the end, but man, the lack of proofreading almost had me
closing the browser tab. I'm not talking mistakes only a grammar Nazi would
care about, but the kind where I read the sentence three times and still ask
"what the hell does this mean?" I don't mean to be snarky, but maybe that's
why emails to leads wasn't working so well. Bad grammar is my first filter for
spam.

Other than that, the article was okay. Good point about getting on the phone.
Email is easy, but it also makes easy to say "no", or just delete it and say
nothing.

~~~
odedgolan
Emails and everything sent to customers were always proofread by a native
english speaker. I wrote this on my spare time but lesson learned for next
time.

~~~
Fylwind
Here's a little bit of constructive advice. There are several places where
you've made a "comma splice" error. That is, a comma (,) was used when a
period (.) or semicolon (;) should have been used (or alternatively, a
conjunction could be used). Example:

> We’ve interviewed a bunch, during one of the interviews after the candidate
> was done presenting, he looked at me, I looked at him, he did OK …

This should be instead:

> We’ve interviewed a bunch. During one of the interviews after the candidate
> was done presenting, he looked at me, and I looked at him. He did OK …

~~~
johnchristopher
Note that punctuation applies to other languages as well.

------
borplk
My problem with these tips is that there's some hidden underlying assumption
baked in it that you think you are so smart and other people are so driven by
their emotions that oh just because you mentioned them by name now they are
going to behave so differently. I don't know about everyone but it sure as
hell wont work on me.

~~~
gingerrr

        you think you are so smart and other people are so driven by their emotions
    
        I don't know about everyone but it sure as hell wont work on me

