
Filecoin – Data storage network and crypto-currency based on Bitcoin - _prometheus
http://filecoin.io/#1
======
pessimizer
If the price lowers, I'm going to want to use it to store files instead of my
hard drive at home, right? Can you share links with other people to fetch
files?

If the price gets higher, I'll want to buy more hard drives for more people to
pay me to use my space. Is that how this works, or am I misreading?

If it works like that, it's pure genius. You'd be able to get a lot of use out
of it without ever converting it. This is a weird thought, but: could filecoin
prop up the value of bitcoin, because the only way to convert filecoin to and
from hard currency would be through bitcoin?

edit: Could I boot from this? Could my phone boot from this?

edit2: I'm assuming that the race to claim the proof reward will encourage low
latency retrievals. Would I be able to tune my client in order to choose my
own balance between latency and security, for example only rewarding quick
responders but paying them highly to encourage a more low latency mix? Would
that open this new cloud disk space market to quant trading strategies?

edit3: If latency matters, then network topology matters. Different places on
the network would be more lucrative than others.

edit4: I'm seeing a workflow where I buy a hard drive, partition it into a
local partition and a filecoin partition, then open it up to the network.
After a few days, my filecoin partition is full, and I've generated a lot of
filecoin. I use that filecoin to start copying files into a mounted virtual
filecoin filesystem. I can rsync between local filesystems and filecoin
filesystems.

I could actually delegate all of that activity to a single fileserver at the
edge of my home network, and have all of my home computers mount files from
that (and phones and home automation could call home to it too.)

~~~
rakoo
I guess the important aspects are:

\- Filecoin is not a filesystem. The whitepaper doesn't even talk about the
technical implementations of storage. Filecoin focusses on "how to retribute
peers" more than "how to store data".

\- Filecoin is supposed to be used on the network

\- Filecoin is supposed to be used in a cluster of mutually distrusting peers,
who by the power of the oldest and most effficient incentive ever (aka money)
can come to an agreement that is beneficial to everyone.

Given these, I wouldn't advise you replace your hard drives with it, not even
your home computers; high latency should be expected. OTOH, Filecoin is the
way to go if you want to backup your whole TBs of data without paying
thousands of dollars each month.

Note: I only speak from a very quick glance at the whitepaper. When I see
something like that I always rush to the technical explanations, and I was a
little bit sad that it only talked about the coin aspect...

~~~
_prometheus
Rakoo, perhaps you'll be interested in Filecoin's sister protocol, IPFS:
[http://static.benet.ai/t/ipfs.pdf](http://static.benet.ai/t/ipfs.pdf)

You can think of it as Git + BitTorrent + Web as a file system. A talk
describing it will be up soon.

Oh, and:

> The whitepaper doesn't even talk about the technical implementations of
> storage.

It does talk about the storage of pieces. Not at a file system level, but at
piece storing + distribution.

~~~
rakoo
Coincidentally, I just looked at ipfs, and am now waiting for the talk :)

------
slg
This is pretty interesting from a economic standpoint. The USD price for file
space would likely hover around the same price of something like S3. If the
price paid by the user is too high, they are better of using S3 for storage.
If the price paid to the user is too high, it creates an arbitrage situation
in which someone can simply use S3 to host Filecoin data. This should
theoretically provide more stability to the price of Filecoin in comparison to
other virtual currencies which is simultaneously the biggest strength and
weakness of most of these things.

~~~
anshukla
Filecoin providers may feasibly beat S3 on price in USD if (i) they're betting
on the protocol because up-front losses may be more than compensated for in
investment returns on Filecoin or (ii) the alternate for them is making no
money on unused disk space.

~~~
slg
The problem is that the investment possibilities for Filecoin might be limited
since it will be tied to a real world service unlike most other digital
currencies. People are free to speculate how much Bitcoins are worth because
there is no company out there saying "Bitcoin are worth X". Filecoin will
basically be saying "Filecoins are worth X GB per hour". The way to combat
this issue is to tie the price to some other currency (e.g. X USD or Bitcoin
per GB per hour paid in Filecoin), but it would be tough to convince other
people to use your currency if you aren't even confident enough in it to price
your own products using it.

For your second point, we need to keep in mind the _free_ space might be empty
but it is not free as in beer. Using the disk will cost extra electricity and
CPU cycles. Plus we shouldn't forget that disks are still the most common
piece of hardware to fail inside a computer. Increasing usage of that disk
increases the risk of failure.

~~~
_prometheus
> Filecoin will basically be saying "Filecoins are worth X GB per hour".

The pricing is left fluid precisely to avoid this. The price can change over
time. 1 Filecoin / N time today. 0.1 / N tomorrow.

> Using the disk will cost extra electricity and CPU cycles.

Similar to how mining works today, but more useful. Filecoin today still
wastes some CPU. But, we've got more surprises coming soon ;)

~~~
slg
>The pricing is left fluid precisely to avoid this. The price can change over
time. 1 Filecoin / N time today. 0.1 / N tomorrow.

That makes sense from an economic perspective but how does that work from a
customer service perspective? Is the price pegged to a different currency? How
would a user be able to predict the cost of the service if the price is not
pegged to anything?

~~~
olefoo
How can you predict the value of a dollar? It's not pegged to anything either.

Although in fact the decline of the value of the dollar is relatively
predictable because of the Federal Reserve's policy goal of keeping inflation
relatively low and the law of large numbers as applied to the generation of
the real rate of inflation.

At my local deli a dollar used to buy a bagel with the works; and now buys
less than half of a plain bagel. That's over the course of 20 years. Any unit
of exchange is valued anew in each transaction; the persistence and trends in
value exist mostly due to social pressure and the cost of bargaining. I don't
make offers and counter offers on each bagel I buy; I just look at the sign
and accept the price or leave without a bagel.

~~~
sundance0
> Although in fact the decline of the value of the dollar is relatively
> predictable because of the Federal Reserve's policy goal of keeping
> inflation relatively low and the law of large numbers as applied to the
> generation of the real rate of inflation.

That's a crucial point. If the Fed didn't pledge to keep inflation under
control, the dollar wouldn't be such a great store of value or medium of
exchange. It's the stability promised by central banks that allow you to
"predict the value of a dollar" in the immediate future.

------
jseip
This is an amazing business model. If they can make it user-friendly (big if)
they'll essentially be offering a more cost-effective, more robust alternative
to Dropbox.

This appears to be truly disintermediated (P2P) secure file sharing?

~~~
MichaelGG
Cheaper and more robust isn't really what Dropbox has been competing on.Great
UX, feature set, support, and general marketing is what will make the
difference.

~~~
api
Of these I think UX is the most significant. UX is where the proprietary
walled gardens and centralized services always win.

Good UX is unbelievably, grindingly hard. If you want to make a product with a
good user interface and overall experience, 90% of the work is going to take
you about 25% of the time and the remaining 10% is going to take you 75% of
the time. Most hackers decide a product is done when it works, but in reality
they're not even half way there.

Apple is probably the overall king of UX. If you look at their process and
their culture, they _obsess and obsess_ over tiny little details that are
irrelevant to core functionality as understood from a purely technical point
of view.

Closed silos have a clear revenue model. That enables them to invest in
pushing product quality and user experience the rest of the way, past where
hackers and enthusiasts would take it and into the realm of polished usability
that real customer bases demand.

Who's going to pay entire teams of designers to obsess over the filecoin.io
client's "experience"?

~~~
chriscool
That's why the next bitcoin or filecoin like payment system should reward
people who contribute to open source / free software.

~~~
_prometheus
Why the next? ;) We're definitely thinking about this. One dream I have is to
move Open Source out of the "Tragedy of the Commons" example list.

~~~
chriscool
Is it possible to help on this?

~~~
_prometheus
Yes, all that will be open source. Sign up on the Filecoin mailing list to
keep in touch.

------
Taek
Maybe I've missed something, but how does Filecoin handle redundancy, and how
does Filecoin handle delegation?

The devs seem to hope that by making the rare pieces valuable, they will
somehow avoid having low redundancy. But what happens when everyone joins a
large pool like Ghash.io, and every file has only a single point of failure?

I would not trust my data to Filecoin, it seems too easy for files to get
permanently lost. There are no guarantees that every file piece will be
managed by at least N nodes.

~~~
_prometheus
Great questions :) -- this borders into future announcements, so sadly I'll
have to defer to the answer on this paper, which you summarize well here. (Not
asking you to believe, only to wait a bit longer.) Also, this answer is
actually not bad: information on the distribution of pieces will become widely
available so users can tune rewards accordingly. Storage pools also have a
ceiling: after backing up the entire piece set, it's better for them to
compete than to keep growing.

~~~
Taek
After backing up the entire piece set, the requirement per-node for joining
the pool declines - say 100GB each instead of 500GB each. Or perhaps you have
a setup where the pool master takes care of storing all the data and the
workers all do POW. Then it's up to the pool to tune prices so that workers
can profit as much as possible.

You might end up with multiple competing pools, but it puts the barrier-to-
entry of being a new pool at a high price. Everyone will mine for the cheapest
pool, and the 1 pool that can provide all the storage at the lowest cost is
the 1 pool that will control all of the data on the network.

It seems like a fragile solution.

~~~
_prometheus
In equilibrium, people will still compete to avoid sharing the reward with
others if they can avoid it. You don't need a full pool to have high expected
reward. Anyway, stay tuned ;) (+ for getting rid of PoW altogether).

~~~
_up
Maybe you could also expand to also allow poeple to mine by running a
distributed search engine. So they can basicly decide wether they offer simple
storage or storage + processing power + low lattency.

------
orik
Is this associated with [http://filecoin.org/](http://filecoin.org/) (febuary
23th, 2014)?

------
flixic
How to create new crypto-currency:

\- Pick something to base you currency on. Bit-, Name-, and File- are taken,
but some might be left.

\- First letter, two stripes, here's a logo!

\- Publish a whitepaper. You must use LaTeX to typeset it.

\- No names or credit anywhere. Stay anonymous.

Joking aside, this looks like something I will try. Have a spare 1TB connected
to fast internet, and assume many others have as well.

~~~
samirmenon
The Whois lookup of filecoin.io gives the name "Juan Batiz-Benet", so this
isn't very anonymous.

~~~
_prometheus
nope, it isn't ;)

~~~
tinco
So why isn't your name on the paper? (not judging, just curious)

------
nullc
This was discussed in #bitcoin-wizards recently:

[http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizards/2014-07-17.ht...](http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizards/2014-07-17.html)

~~~
wyager
So it sounds like the incentive model is kind of fundamentally broken. Is it
correct to say that miners are incentivized to A) store trash data in a way
that lets them mine with zero actual storage backing it up and B) consolidate
their storage into the same hard drive, until there exists only a single copy
of the data on the entire network?

~~~
nullc
Yes. Their counter argument to (A) that the trash data will cost more to store
than the user gets for retrieving it (though this isn't true if the attack is
successful and results in them being the only miner/retrieval server), and (B)
they don't seem to consider a problem.

There are other issues— e.g. arbitrary data can be censored and the only harm
is lost mining revenue proportional to the censored data. (e.g. you could
censor 0.1% of all data, and probably make every file unreadable (just by
censoring the first word of it) but only be unable to answer 0.1% of the file
queries).

I don't really see the point— having a file storage service that you can pay
for with cryptocurrency make sense, but integrating it in this manner seems to
serve no technical purpose other than to fuel investment speculation and
otherwise just makes the system worse.

------
xiphias
Is there a way to host a file for 1 month, 2 month, 1 year.... by paying
more/less (and maybe increasing the storage time by additional payments). That
would be the right model that could translate to S3 storage with the same
price. Without a time component, storage prices have strange meanings.

~~~
xiphias
Is the thinking behind infinite storage that the price of storage decreases
exponentially so the cost of keeping a file forever is limited?

------
jude-
I'm surprised the whitepaper didn't cite PermaCoin [1], which addresses the
same problem with proofs-of-retrievability and uses the BitCoin blockchain for
storage. Would the authors like to comment on how their work differs?

[1]
[http://cs.umd.edu/~amiller/permacoin.pdf](http://cs.umd.edu/~amiller/permacoin.pdf)

~~~
_prometheus
Hey, yeah. I found out about permacoin (which is great!) after designing this
construction. Turns out that permacoin and filecoin are really compatible, and
complementary. amiller and I will be talking about it in the near future.
(btw, permacoin's non-outsourceability is a great contribution! it should also
be added to regular bitcoin)

And, to answer your question, I didn't cite permacoin here because I would
have to address a whole range of things like how they overlap/differ/which one
is good for what parts. Perhaps I should've, but I think it's best left to a
future paper (hinted at in the discussion). Stay tuned! :)

~~~
leni536
I hope you can take more hints from permacoin. There is an important
economical point in permacoin's whitepaper:

"The expected reward per unit of work is approximately constant, even for very
small investments of computational effort. This prevents large participants
from monopolizing the system and driving out ordinary participants."

Maybe I don't have a deep understanding how filecoin works, but as far as I
know if you don't have the storage capacity which can even reach the current
difficulty then you have an expected reward of 0. Maybe it's a non-issue and
the difficulty will never reach let's say 10MB, but if it reaches 1TB then it
will be really hard to hop in the mining business.

------
lappa
Filecoin uses what they call "proof-of-retrievability".

The thing about proof-of-work is that it is a proof. Assuming that sha256d is
unpredictable, you will on average have use a certain amount of energy to find
a low hash value.

With proof-of-retrieval, the name itself is lying. There is no way to prove
that a piece of data went from one person to another. It should be called
invoking-trust-in-retrieval-and-proof-of-having-the-file.

Along with that, because hashes have the property of being irreversible,
blocks can be hashed and the winner cannot change the block without doing work
again.

Because of these properties, filecoin must use PoW (which their whitepaper
states they do).

According to their whitepaper, you must first construct the proof of ownership
in the file, then you perform the PoW with that seed.

This leads to huge economies of scale because the startup cost of mining at
equilibrium will include storing an abundance of files (probably all of them).

~~~
beejiu
> There is no way to prove that a piece of data went from one person to
> another.

Actually, you can prove that a piece of data went from one person to another,
but others in the network must also have a copy. I was thinking a few months
back about applying a similar idea to Bit-Torrent / P2P sharing. It was
possible to prove that the file was sent given that all nodes had a copy of
the file; so the idea is more feasible for file sharing than it is personal
file storage.

~~~
lappa
What you are referring to isn't a proof, it is invoking trust in a set of
people.

------
sp4ke
There's also [http://storj.io/](http://storj.io/) and they are crowdfunding
the project over the decentralized financial exchange counterparty like swarm
:-)

~~~
nbody
They raised 450 BTC within a day, seems they have a following. Hopefully one
of them will get this up and running soon.

------
bweitzman
This is neat. I did some work on a data storage platform through a bittorrent
tracker/community back in 2010. There was no concept of a currency instead
relying on the tracker to prioritize downloads since nobody would have any
incentive to download any particular file. The more you stored, the more you
could store.

It's neat to see this concept popping up now,
[http://storj.io/](http://storj.io/) is another platform that popped up
recently.

------
wyager
Is this one also vulnerable to people creating fake nodes that "store files"
for each other to earn coins for doing nothing?

~~~
bdcs
The authors address Sybil attacks in the paper. Essentially, there is a PoW
style consensus using hashes of files+metadata (as opposed to bitcoin which is
hashes of nothing + metadata)

~~~
abc123xyz
whats to stop the node replying with the hash of the file saying "yes the file
is here" when in reality no file is there

~~~
ZitchDog
Haven't read the paper, but could you ask for a hash of a random offset+byte
count of the file?

~~~
wyager
That only works on direct person-to-person systems, not decentralized systems
where the entire network has to reach consensus.

------
baumbart
Ok, I see some similarities to other projects here. Let's introduce one
additional layer of abstraction that we call "resources-coin". Disk space is
not the only limited resource that can be shared using an economic system; CPU
cycles (not for hashing, but doing actual work), network bandwidth, storage
space (like this project) are all things that have some value that one can be
rewarded for. I bet there are many more ways.

The difference with traditional bitcoin is that, we're not talking about an
absolutely limited resource here. While bitcoin will stop growing at a certain
point, no matter what happens, storage space on earth will always grow. So
will the overall bandwidth, overall computational power etc.

And that is why these things are not going to work on the long term. You
cannot build a currency based on reward.

~~~
kylebrown
These things will work, they just won't be good for "store of value" like
bitcoin. Supply of disk space, bandwidth etc keeps growing, but the demand for
those resources grows as well. Hard to predict the ratio of supply to demand,
and therefore the price, but I think they could work very well in the long
term. Not as a universal payment currency, but rather as a token (with
fluctuating price) for some particular type of service.

I see the future of "resource coins" as being efficient mechanisms for p2p
resource distribution. Conventionally, a customer would use their credit card
to pay some cloud hosting company. The conventional hosting company is a
business which operates as a privately managed bureaucracy. A P2P coin
operates as standard protocol acting as a meta-company, aka a DAC/DAO -
Digital Autonomous Company/Organization.

In a conventional business, a private bureaucracy manages a resource uses it
to provide a service (bandwidth, disk space, and CPU as managed by a hosting
company). P2P coins replace that centrally-operated middle man with a
decentralized algorithm and account database. Bitcoin is like a meta-company
which operates a distributed ledger internet payments. Why stop at payments?
If its efficient, we should *coin all the things.

~~~
baumbart
"I see the future of "resource coins" as being efficient mechanisms for p2p
resource distribution." \-- Agree. This is totally valid and can definitely
work; it's kind of a special purpose currency or intermediate currency then.
Just a way to measure the value of a service, like storing stuff.

I'm still not convinced that you could actually use that revenue as a value in
itself, like, storing it for later use. To be fair, I did not read the paper.
If you would get existing coins for sharing a resource, that could work ... if
you only rely on the mining process to earn value, it won't.

------
possibilistic
Unrelated to Filecoin, this brought to mind a question about the Bitcoin
blockchain I've been pondering recently.

Since users can put small arbitrary byte data in a transaction that gets
included in the block chain (AFAIK), isn't it possible that an attacker could
insert illicit / illegal data that everyone using Bitcoin replicates?

Copyrighted materials, sensitive personal information such as SSNs, and
moreover, child pornograpy immediately come to mind as things that could
forever be persisted.

If this is possible, wouldn't that make everyone using the bitcoin blockchain
criminally liable for storing and/or transmitting that information? (In the US
and similar jurisdictions.)

I assume lightweight clients that only store a hash would be unaffected. But
still, this seems like a serious issue.

~~~
_prometheus
Yes, it's been known for a while that people can upload illegal bits into
blockchains. Don't think transaction steganography would hold up in court
though. You could do similar things with DNS records, etc.

File storage services though have the added concern that they're specifically
designed to distribute files. Filecoin addresses this by (a) encouraging
everyone to pre-encrypt before adding, and (b) creating a fluid market based
on incentives. Nodes aren't _required_ to store every file, only strongly
incentivized to do so. Nodes are free to follow strong counter incentives
(say, a well-known list of "illegal hashes" published by authorities).

In reality, the way many courts handle things like this is to target the entry
points: the websites advertising which are the illegal hashes and how to get
them. (e.g. the piratebay instead of bittorrent inc.)

~~~
kang
Make encryption at source compulsory (since the data is uploaded through your
software) and no need to tell the user about it. rather advertise it as a
feature.

~~~
swinglock
I agree, this would be the best action for both the user and host. I'd add a
check on the host to make sure the data looks random as well to protect
against rouge or malfunctioning clients that attempts to store plain text.
Encryption must be mandatory and enforced, this will prevent so much pain for
all parties.

~~~
nullc
'looks random' is a pretty bad idea. It will bogusly fire on random files and
won't prevent people from just standardizing on a key of 0.

------
em3rgent0rdr
Unfortunately https not working, because they are using github pages. They
should really put up a https site especially considering they are a crypto
project and are soliciting email addresses. At least a TOR hidden service or a
namecoined https site.

~~~
_prometheus
Ack! Great point. We'll upgrade to https soon. Wish github supported https in
pages :(

------
z3t4
What I think would be a limited factor is the bandwidth: You need at least 35
megabit per second for streaming full HD video+sound ... While most people are
stuck on 5 Mbit Internet or 50 GB/month quota.

------
bascule
All that is old is new again:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnet_(peer-to-
peer_network)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnet_\(peer-to-peer_network\))

------
chipsy
I'm hugely optimistic about the market for "proof-of-application"
cryptocurrency since it's also the next step in "race to the bottom" \- make
use of the spare resources of all our commodity electronics and eliminate a
centralized authority simultaneously. We've had plenty of peer-to-peer
systems, but the incentives are mostly wrong to make them scale up past the
niches of the black market and political radicals.

------
andrewchambers
I always wanted proof of work to be computation power which is saved up over
time, which can be spent as computation bursts on a network, or sold. Perhaps
using pnacl binaries to to the computations.

Rather than waste CPU power on mindless hashing, you could accomplish real
computation tasks.

This is pretty cool too though.

~~~
lukifer
"Proof of Non-Work" would be a very interesting concept, although I can't
think of a way to do it. (In a sense, Proof of Work is an expensive method to
accomplish Proof of Non-Work.)

------
JeremyBanks
Very interesting. Are files expected to be stored forever, even if they're
never requested?

~~~
trevorcreech
Yes. Filecoin uses proof-of-retrievability i.e. you prove that you can access
arbitrary parts of a file without needing to always provide the whole file.

~~~
JeremyBanks
Hmm. Does this mean that the cost of storing new data over time will grow, to
support the larger and larger amount of existing data that needs to be stored?

------
ff_
That's a beautiful thing, I was thinking about building a system like that,
but without the cryptocurrency thing, it's genial.

Reading the whitepaper one thing isn't clear: will the pieces of data be
encrypted before sending them to the network?

------
jacob019
Users pay to Put data into the network. Are there any ongoing payments for
storage? I don't see any way to delete data either. If the network promises
permanent free storage after a one time fee, it's sure to fail eventually.

~~~
_prometheus
Yeah, the payment effectively buys storage for a certain amount of time. Read
the discussion on Rewards here:
[http://filecoin.io/filecoin.pdf](http://filecoin.io/filecoin.pdf)

~~~
jacob019
"Transaction issuers must pay for all rewards up-front" Will there be a way to
make ongoing payments for data retention? With a proper API this could be used
for secure distributed backup, that would be a killer use and something I
would gladly pay "miners" for.

~~~
rdrey
The way I understand it, Get'ing the data also publishes it to existing
miners, so they can start storing it if it's a piece with a high reward value.
The TTL is decreased by the Get operation, though. By understanding how
valuable your data is you can choose a time to Put it again (while reward/TTL
> market rate) with a new reward attached. Obviously that reward/TTL should be
higher than the last one to buy you a bunch of safe Gets again.

------
xur17
How is bandwidth handled / incentivized? Is this intended for long term
storage (few retrievals), or for files that are accessed frequently?

~~~
_prometheus
more for long term storage. see ipfs for short term.

------
jothi
How different is it from Storjcoin ?

~~~
abc123xyz
Both smell like a scam, "coincidentally" today storj started fundraising by
getting people to send them bitcoins for useless storjcoins they created, the
worst part is people falling for such a scam, then again there's a fool born
every minute which is a business model a lot of companies rely on.

In this case and in storjcoin case the actors behind it all remain anonymous

~~~
_prometheus
I can understand why -- with all the scams out there -- that would be one
reaction. But note that Filecoin makes important technical contributions on
top of the Bitcoin protocol. You can read the paper here:
[http://filecoin.io/filecoin.pdf](http://filecoin.io/filecoin.pdf)

FWIW, we aren't really anonymous. Neither in the storj case (you can find who
they are in their website), nor in the Filecoin case. (hi!)

~~~
abc123xyz
Apologies for being skeptical, your whitepaper does seem to be more indepth
unlike the Storj scam which will probably unravel soon

If this filecoin does take off and does what is being promised I will
personally add hundreds of terrabytes of storage from our storage servers.

But seeing what Storj are doing I am extremely sceptical so please understand
where I am coming from.

~~~
_prometheus
Understood! Stay tuned :) We're working hard to upgrade internet
infrastructure with the nice properties cryptocurrencies can give us.

And, by the way, see
[http://static.benet.ai/t/ipfs.pdf](http://static.benet.ai/t/ipfs.pdf) \--
[https://github.com/jbenet/ipfs](https://github.com/jbenet/ipfs) \--
Filecoin's sister protocol.

------
sly_g
Will your reward depend on the volume you dedicated to store other people's
files?

------
Hilyin
What about being liable for storing illegal files someone uploads to your
filebox?

~~~
elux
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15759 32891 09329 54473 50881 88246 54950 60005 01900 62747 05305 38116 42782
94267 47485 34965 25745 36815 11706 55028 19055 52656 22135 31463 10421 00866
28679 71144 46706 36692 19825 86158 11125 15556 50481 34207 68673 23407 65505
48591 08269 56266 69306 62367 99702 10481 23965 62518 00681 83236 53959 34839
56753 57557 53246 19023 48106 47009 87753 02795 61868 92925 38069 33052 04238
14996 99454 56945 77413 83356 89906 00587 08321 81270 48611 33682 02651 59051
66351 87402 90181 97693 93767 78529 28722 10955 04129 25792 57381 86605 84501
50552 50274 99477 18831 29310 45769 80909 15304 61335 94190 30258 81320 59322
77444 38525 50466 77902 45186 97062 62778 88919 79580 42306 57506 15669 83469
56177 97879 65920 16440 51939 96071 69811 12615 19561 02762 83233 98257 91423
32172 69614 43744 38105 64855 29348 87634 92103 09887 02878 74532 33132 53212
26786 33283 70279 25099 74996 94887 75936 91591 76445 88032 71838 47402 35933
02037 48885 06755 70658 79194 61134 19323 07814 85443 64543 75113 20709 86063
90746 41756 41216 35042 38800 29678 08558 67037 03875 09410 76982 11837 65499
20520 43682 55854 64228 85024 29963 32268 53691 24648 55000 75591 66402 47292
40716 45072 53196 74499 95294 48434 74190 21077 29606 82055 81309 23626 83798
79519 66199 79828 55258 87161 09613 65617 80745 66159 24886 60889 81645 68541
72136 29208 46656 27913 14784 66791 55096 51543 10113 53858 62081 96875 83688
35955 77893 91454 53935 68199 60988 08540 47659 07358 97289 89834 25047 12891
84162 65878 96821 85380 87956 27903 99786 29449 39760 54675 34821 25675 01215
17082 73710 76462 70712 46753 21024 83678 15940 00875 05452 54353 7.

^
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime)

Now what?

~~~
TomGullen
Well the implications are a bit more life changing when users decide to store
child pornography on your HDD, it's a good question.

------
doctorKrieger
datacoin anyone?

------
bamdadd
MaidSafe is doing similar kind of thing. I think they have much better plan
and idea [http://maidsafe.net/](http://maidsafe.net/)
[http://www.safecoin.io/](http://www.safecoin.io/)

------
dubcanada
Does "Renting disk space" not sound extremely sketchy to anyone else?

~~~
_prometheus
Does "Renting your spare room" (airbnb) or "Renting your car" (uber) sound
sketchy? It's all about how the protocol works and the security guarantees on
top. Users should store pre-encrypted files. (except for public goods, like
wikipedia)

