

Users report 'fault' on iPhone 4 - mdolon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8759590.stm

======
sev
I got mine yesterday and noticed the reception issue while holding the phone
from it's sides immediately. I hope it's only a software related issue.

EDIT: I was just on a call, holding the phone from it's sides, and I was
stationary in a good reception area. The call hung up. So it's not just the
bars showing incorrectly, it's actually losing reception. Btw, it takes
approximately 30 seconds of holding it from the sides for the bars to
completely go down.

~~~
tjmaxal
Most of the pundits think it's a hardware issue that may result in Apple's
first major recall.

~~~
glhaynes
Do they? I've seen more people saying they expect it's just a
software/presentation problem. Not that I think there's any particular reason
to expect either group to know what they're talking about.

~~~
twinwing
[http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/06/new-
iphone-4-anten...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/06/new-
iphone-4-antenna-causing-potential-reception-issues.ars)

Ars Technica usually know what they're talking about. I tend to trust them

~~~
ubernostrum
I worry about the conditions apparently needed to reproduce this (and the fact
that I still can't reproduce it). Even Ars' explanation includes "consciously"
holding the phone in a different way than you naturally would and licking your
hands before doing so...

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jarek
Mr. Jobs' take? "Just don't hold it that way."

[http://www.tuaw.com/2010/06/24/double-stevemails-on-
iphone-4...](http://www.tuaw.com/2010/06/24/double-stevemails-on-
iphone-4-reception-just-dont-hold-it-tha/)

------
sjsivak
I tried this, and I could only make it work when the phone was without a case.
When I touched the metal directly I could make the signal go from 5 bars to 2
bars. With the case on I could not make it change at all.

EDIT: this was holding it with my left hand, I did not try it right handed.

~~~
CoryMathews
Yes but this mean you MUST buy a case.

------
desigooner
I got my phone today and i tried reproducing the network problem in various
ways but luckily, the network holds up for me.

I suspect a bad batch of phones which were manufactured with defects ..

~~~
flatline
Yeah, I am currently streaming Pandora, holding the phone with my left hand
cradling the bottom, while replying to this post, all on 3G. I haven't been
able to get the bars to drop either...

~~~
sev
Cradling from the bottom isn't the problem. Holding it from the sides without
touching the bottom, and without a case, is the problem. Remember that the
antenna is the metal on the sides.

~~~
desigooner
The problems seem to arise from covering the seams so as to say where the
frame pieces are connected. If the seam is not covered or touched by hand,
there should be no drop in the network. Seems like the antenna's shorting out
when the seam is covered by hand.

A small piece of scotch tape should do the job as far as avoiding this problem
goes until one can get hold of a cover

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windsurfer
Fault? No-button disconnect is totally a feature.

~~~
mkramlich
iRecall: it's like recalls by other companies but ours is shiny and you'll
love it! ;)

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jawngee
Happens to me but only in areas with a weak signal (NYC).

In strong signal I never lose a bar. At home, which is usually a dead zone - I
was surprised to see so many bars with the new phone. But if I do cradle it
with my left hand, the bars disappear completely within a few minutes.

But I cannot replicate it reliably elsewhere.

~~~
rbanffy
If I remember my RF classes, it will happen when there is one antenna in the
region the phone is. If there are more antennas in different directions,
roughly with the same power, the effect should be much less pronounced.

Radio is... complicated.

~~~
jarek
If I remember my networking classes, a GSM device is normally connected to a
single BTS (tower) at a time. (Hand-overs between two towers are the major
exception, and they're very brief.)

~~~
rbanffy
If your hand blocks the signal of one tower, the phone will switch to the next
that is probably not in the same direction as the previously best one and
signal strength will, hopefully, not suffer as much from your hand.

------
sv123
happens to me as well.. I heard buying the bumper fixes the problem. Another
$30 to apple from me I guess :|

~~~
nooneelse
You are really going to give them another $30 to finish their job of device
packaging? If touching the antenna(s) makes the phone fail to function, then a
case needs to cover the antenna(s), and that case should be part of the price
of the phone to begin with.

~~~
KirinDave
So what would you suggest? Pouting loudly?

This problem seems over-emphasized. I can get my phone to do it if I hold it
in a funny way (and I am a righty but usually lefthand my phone). I'm not
trying to make excuses for Apple here, I'm trying to say that this problem's
press coverage makes it seem worse than it actually seems to be in the real
world.

~~~
nooneelse
Since when is asking a company to fix a product that isn't working on day one
"pouting"?

The way people are holding the phones in the demo videos is not exotic or
weird. So, yeah, that can sound a bit like an excuse. It sounds even more like
blaming the people who are seeing the problem. Maybe their hands just aren't
good enough, right?

If an piece of electronics needs a case that insulates a part from contact to
the user, then leaving that off is incomplete packaging. Simple as that. If
the issue is coming from a bad batch of phones or design flaw that is leading
to the failure or under-performance of some mechanism designed to deal with
that contact to the user, then those hit by this deserve their choice of a new
phone that isn't from that batch or, at the very least, a free case.

The first Android phone I had would reboot every few minutes while being used,
I tried the full reinstall that the technician recommended, but when I walked
back in and said it hadn't worked, he didn't blame me. He handed me a new
phone (no problems since). No one expects perfection in new hardware rollouts,
but it is right to expect proper customer service. Since you asked me, I would
suggest Apple fix it in software if that is possible, and/or start handing out
free cases like candy.

~~~
KirinDave
> Since when is asking a company to fix a product that isn't working on day
> one "pouting"?

No. Speculatively suggesting Apple will not make good on this when they have a
fairly good track record is pouting. If there is a serious problem noticed by
lots of consumers, it's obvious that Apple will at the very least offer a case
to those affected. Most people here have been repeat Apple customers because
of reasonably good service over the years.

> The way people are holding the phones in the demo videos is not exotic or
> weird. So, yeah, that can sound a bit like an excuse. It sounds even more
> like blaming the people who are seeing the problem. Maybe their hands just
> aren't good enough, right?

Nice try, but I didn't do that. It takes a very specific (and I mean specific,
I have to try multiple times to get it to happen, it's not casual finger
contact) grip to do it. Short term: do not hold the phone that way. Is that
acceptable as a long term fix? No.

My only point: The press is making it to sound like the phone "does not work"
or "is unusable" and anyone who's saying that is as guilty of hyperbole as the
people saying it is no problem at all. We can easily strike a balance here
were we say the phone has a "idiosyncrasy" (or "flaw", take your pick of
connotation) without implying that everyone who bought one is lying to
themselves and every phone is a brick. I see the press, particularly the
linked bbc story, skewing to the "this is a brick" end of the scale when
that's false to any realistic examination.

~~~
nooneelse
Absolutely "this is a brick" is an exaggeration... good thing I didn't said
that then, huh. And I don't remember suggesting that Apple won't make good, so
your pouting charge is still misplaced and increasingly impolite. I questioned
someone's, seemingly abject, willingness to take the hit for fixing it
themselves rather than putting the responsibility where it actually belongs.

The electrical properties of skin can vary quite a bit. One person's specific
and firm grip to get good contact is another person's sweaty handed casual
touch. That still sounds like blaming the user that finds the problem to me.
The guy in the key-test video mentioned that his company's half a dozen phones
all behaved the same.

Is the press inflating things? They do for everything, so sure. Just how much
is a guess till some stats come out on this thing. If and when we do get good
numbers, this will make a good example case for the distortions introduced by
internet media.

~~~
nooneelse
Addendum: Moving right along with the "will make it good" idea...
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1459629>

~~~
KirinDave
Apple always does exactly what Steve Jobs says at any given moment. Exactly.

~~~
nooneelse
So having to go through the old "there is no problem", "a little problem that
isn't our fault", "ok, maybe our fault but we admit nothing and nothing can be
done", "ok here is a fix"... is that your idea of great customer service? Why
not just cut to the chase and be responsible about it?

You asked me earlier what I suggested, and though you have consistently miss-
characterized it, I answered in a way that I think would be a PR win for them.
What would your suggestion be then? The old corporate song and dance?

Also, you can have the last word on this, if you wish. Since, although I'm
pretty certain I've listened to you, I'm not at all certain you've listened to
me in this exchange and that doesn't incline me to continue this
communication. If I just wanted insults pushed at my general direction, I'd go
spend some more time on reddit. Later.

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mkramlich
I thought the whole story about how Apple was holding up the release of the
white models was a littly fishy.

Theory: Apple realized they may have a serious problem at some point after the
launch (black?) model was flowing to retail channels, but before they released
the white model. So they're hurrying to address it before white ships, at
least.

This does smell like a recall.

------
jordanbrown
ah I would be bummed to have to buy one of those ugly bumpers, I like apple
devices the way they are bare.

~~~
warfangle
I like certain other things when they're bare, but I'd never want them to go
out in public without clothes on.

------
bonaldi
Made it happen without trying, left hand. Gratis bumpers seem like the quick
fix solution.

~~~
astrodust
Duct tape is the quick fix solution.

~~~
rgrove
Actually, yeah: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/wonko/4731332788/>

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mrj
They had to have known about this problem. They just decided to sell it anyhow
knowing people would buy it, regardless.

~~~
mrj
Hey, you voting me down:

[http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-
iphon...](http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-
iphone-4-reception-issues-youre-holding-th/)

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sabat
_Apple have created a phone_

"Apple have?"

Isn't it ironic that the very people who are supposed to be the keepers of
English can't even use proper grammar? Apple HAS created a phone. Apple is a
company. Singular. Not plural. There is no earthly defense (er, "defence") for
referring to Apple, a company, in the plural.

~~~
steamboiler
I think it is an usage specific to the UK.

 _Use of a plural verb after a singular noun denoting a group of persons
(known as a noun of multitude) is commoner in the U.K. than in the U.S. Fowler
wrote: "The Cabinet is divided is better, because in the order of thought a
whole must precede division; and The Cabinet are agreed is better, because it
takes two or more to agree."_

Taken from: <http://alt-usage-english.org/groupnames.html>

