

Five Netbooks Microsoft Has Crushed - tc
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/081009-five-netbooks-microsoft-has.html

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mrkurt
Ugh, I'd have purchased a number of those with Ubuntu on them. I guess the
demand for that's not high enough to be worthwhile.

Lack of demand isn't the same as MS crushing something, though. It's super
common to segment software licenses based on hardware capabilities, and it's
trickled down to the consumer level I guess.

~~~
Xichekolas
Agreed. I just bought an Eeepc that has a dual core and 2gb of RAM, which as I
read it falls afoul of the limits and presumably has a higher cost license. It
was only $370, and while I realize that price was probably higher due to
having windows on it, that didn't exactly kill the product... I still bought
it. It's annoying, since I immediately formatted and put Easy Peasy on it
anyway, but it's hard to find any ready-built machine without a bundled OS, so
this is nothing new.

~~~
jmaygarden
You should try to get a refund for the Windows license (see
<http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381>).

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cesare
Microsoft is the new Microsoft.

More seriously, I bought an ASUS netbook recently (Intel Atom, 1Gb ram, 160Gb
hd) and I completely forgot that I was paying for the XP license, even though
I intended to wipe the hd (as I did as soon as I was back home) and install
gnu/Linux. Now I regret the purchase even more.

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blasdel
The fresh crop of ARM / OMAP3 netbooks coming out may be a release valve on
some of the design pressure that Microsoft is exerting -- not just the gimped
specs to run XP, but the bog-standard hardware that everyone uses.

<http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/> is pretty close to perfect for
me, though I wish it had a lot more RAM, and booted off a standard mini-pci-e
/ SATA SSD.

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jonsteinberg
I've looked at this space a bunch and even played around with building an
ubuntu launcher: <http://drop.io/piedesktop>

The deb file is up there.

I think that the alternatives to windows work much better on these machines.
The ubuntu Netbook Remix is very friendly for those inexperienced with Linux,
and Jolicloud, which is really just an app installer platform for Ubuntu,
takes a lot of the hassle out of using repositories for app identification and
install.

This is all a lot of lead up to my belief that OS is mattering less and less.
In fact 26% of survey respondents said they didn't care about Netbook OS as
long as it "got them on the web." I think the hardware manufacturers are risk
averse but really not watching the market and demand. Big startup opportunity
I think...

I compiled a research survey here: [http://drop.io/piedesktop/asset/netbook-
market-research-over...](http://drop.io/piedesktop/asset/netbook-market-
research-overview-pdf)

~~~
jimbokun
'In fact 26% of survey respondents said they didn't care about Netbook OS as
long as it "got them on the web."'

You seem to understate your case.

In addition to that 26%, you have 21% that _prefers_ Linux, and 7% who will
take Linux if the price of the computer is $50 less. That sums to %54.

I think the big question, though, is how many of those will change their mind
and return the computer once they try to install a program that only runs on
Windows. Do they honestly know what they are getting into when they say they
"don't care" about the OS? Maybe they don't care about the OS, but do care
about a particular program they want to run, but don't understand that choice
of OS might prevent them from running that program.

~~~
jonsteinberg
I think there are fewer and fewer apps that people need that are not cloud
based. The only ones I can really think of for most consumers are the MS
Office suite. Any most of these people will be happy with a cloud or open
alternative if they give it a shot.

Especially given that most OS dependent apps (i.e. Photoshop) are not really
practical for netbook processors limits.

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jasonkester
Crime: Microsoft offers deep discounts on its OS to makers of low-spec
computers.

Punishment: Some clown on the internet accuses them of "crushing" stuff.

I know that we're all supposed to hate Microsoft and all, but really, can't
they even do something nice without everybody piling on them? So yeah, in
order to give out a discount on low-spec machines, you need to draw a line
somewhere. In a field as crowded as low-spec notebooks, chances are that line
is going to be close to a few existing machines.

But really, it's just silly to pick a few of those machines that happen to be
near the cutoff and pretend that somehow Microsoft decided to "crush" them.

It's a _discount_ fer cryin' out loud. It's a _good_ thing.

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javanix
What would be the business sense in these restrictions?

I see the point with XP - Microsoft wants computers _capable_ of using the
latest and greatest to actually use the latest and greatest - but what's the
point in the Windows 7 restrictions that the article mentioned?

Obviously, they see some sort of advantage, but I'm having a tough time seeing
it.

~~~
jcl
Microsoft is not restricting whether or not their operating systems will run
on the netbooks. They are only restricting whether or not a particular netbook
will get a deep discount on the operating system. Netbooks are cheap enough
that the full cost of Windows is significant compared to the hardware cost, so
a netbook without the deep discount would need to compete with other laptops
instead of other netbooks, effectively killing it.

One business reason for the discounts is market segmentation. Netbook
purchasers have a different sensitivity to price than purchasers of full
computers. By charging less, Microsoft may be able to sell more copies of
Windows -- perhaps enough to make more total dollars than at the undiscounted
price. This is also the reason why there are many different editions of Vista
available at different prices.

Another business reason is to keep Linux from getting a toehold on the user
desktop market. Price is the one obvious advantage of Linux, which is why it
powered so many of the initial netbook offerings. By offering a steep discount
only for cheap computers, Microsoft effectively defuses the threat, without
cannibalizing its sales on more powerful systems.

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halo
Using the same logic, think of how many potential computers that Apple have
'crushed' by not allowing OS X on non-Apple hardware.

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kqr2
The article mentions that the Dell Mini 9 is on its way to retirement and
available only with XP.

The Dell Vostro A90, however, is essentially a rebranded mini 9 for the
enterprise and is available with either ubuntu or windows.

BTW, if you are interested in running os x on a netbook, I highly recommend
it.

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Poiesis
I used to think that Apple didn't have a good reason to enter the netbook
space, but now I'm thinking otherwise when I read stuff like this.

It's not so much that Apple needs to be competing in the low end (they don't),
but that if there's _no_ alternative at those sizes based on the licensing
issues, maybe there's an opportunity there.

Anyway, it would in fact seem that many netbook users are not exactly heavy
users of local applications; classically they're mostly using the web and
mail. And then, of course, the disadvantages of not having the Windows OS
become much less.

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jrockway
What's the point of Windows on netbooks anyway? Last time I checked,
OpenOffice.org and Firefox run the same on Linux as they do on Windows. (Oh,
the window borders are a different color. I see.)

~~~
teilo
Ah, another "What's the point" comment, belying a blind ideology which
blithely assumes that anyone using a netbook would have no need to run any
Windows software such as, say, Office; clear evidence that said commenter does
not have a job in the real world where OOo cannot possibly replace MSOffice,
due to a massive investment in time and programming $, macros, VB code, and
countless formatting and layout problems that OOo would introduce, not to
mention the need to interoperate with the rest of the business world, and most
home users.

~~~
graywh
If Office is that important to your work, why aren't you buying a quality
system?

~~~
teilo
Me? I run a new Macbook Pro 17 (+ VMWare + Boot Camp + Win 7). But the sub-
notebook class is attractive for way more than email. That's the whole point
of having a machine that can run Windows. This would be like trying to sell as
scooter that was banned from the freeways. Most people are going to pass it
over for more practical models.

~~~
graywh
Scooters are banned from the freeways and they still sell. Not to people that
want to drive them on the freeway, but to people that want to use them for
their designed purpose.

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chanux
Microsoft: Helping technology to evolve!

~~~
chrischen
Good one!

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trezor
Myabe I'm biased (working with Microsoft tech), but if Microsoft indeed
"crushed" these netbooks it would only be because of the failing of competing
operating systems.

Myself, I use Ubuntu on my netbook and have no issue with that (since I use it
mostly for terminals and Firefox), but the current releases aren't exactly
polished diamonds either.

If Microsoft were one day to go away and die, I wonder what all these people
who constantly blame them for absolutely everything between the heavens and
earth would do when it turned out the world didn't automatically turn into a
perfect, flawless dream-world.

~~~
chrischen
I always thought people don't use non-Windows cause of software. For example I
have a friend that wants to use Ubuntu but also wants to use itunes. I'm sure
a lot more people want to play games, use microsoft office, etc, too. Frankly
if microsoft were to go away and die, then we'd have more software geared
towards linux/os x.

The way I see microsoft, they're very manipulative. For example, instead of
making the most powerful video game console, they pay off developers for
exclusive titles or game features. I think in the OS department they exhibit
the same strategy where they aren't doing the simple make the best product so
it will sell the most strategy. While it may be an effective strategy for a
business to be sly and manipulative, the consumer gets screwed. For the same
reason I hate cell phone companies. Why can't they just have us pay the actual
value for the phone and charge a fairer monthly fee?

So it would be great if microsoft would die. We'd have less manipulative
proprietary crap and more innovation.

