
Epic Games chief pays $15M to protect 7,000 acres of North Carolina wilderness - mutor
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/285149/Epic_Games_chief_pays_15M_to_protect_7000_acres_of_North_Carolina_wilderness.php
======
M_Grey
This is the kind of action that can have long-term positive impacts. Maybe it
won't change the world, and it won't get you Zuckerberg "I'm ending all
disease" press, but it's immediately, tangibly beneficial to masses of life. I
respect the hell out of this.

------
austinl
Reminds me of Douglas Tompkins (the founder of Esprit and The North Face) who
has done this on a much larger scale in Chile and Argentina.

He's used his profit from selling his share in both companies to buy over _2
million acres_ of land, and is in the process of restoring the it to original
conditions (which is sometimes at odds with the interest of local ranchers).

Check out:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Tompkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Tompkins)

[http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/the-
entr...](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/the-entrepreneur-
who-wants-to-save-paradise/380116/)

~~~
ivm
He also successfully fought against greedy politicians and businessmen who
wanted to build huge dams in Patagonia and flood an enormous area.

I think it is one of the reasons why Chile is turning towards solar now.

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divyekapoor
A conservation easement is not a payment. Sweeney didn't actually pay $15
million. He just gave up the right to develop on a piece of land he wasn't
ever going to develop on anyway. This gives him a $15 million tax deduction
over several years that he can use to offset his tax liabilities. Since he
donated $15 million worth of property rights, he probably has a lot of them.

Not very different from Trump's conservation easement donation in New York.

~~~
iamcreasy
What is your source?

The article explicitly says 'Epic Games founder Tim Sweeney has reportedly
paid $15 million to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to permanently protect
7,000 acres of undeveloped land'.

~~~
notlisted
I guess it works like this - [http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-land-
donations-put...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-land-donations-
put-him-in-line-for-conservation-tax-breaks-1457656717)

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WalterBright
Buying land and making nature preserves out of it is an excellent and
effective way for wealthy people to do good.

~~~
branchless
In our current system, yes, but should we not reach higher to say that this
land is common land and that it is a resource not just for us but for all
generations going forward.

When we say that all land is for sale and once owned is at the disposal of the
owner in perpetuity, we rely on the good-will of the owner. In the majority of
cases this is not enough.

We need to look at land ownership differently if we want to achieve real
change. We have to bake in behaviour into the rules of our society. Right now
we bake in land speculation and exploitation of natural resources for private
good and often the public purse picks up the pollution costs later.

~~~
jonlucc
I think it's worse than that. This particular person is in a position to
likely make enough money to not need to worry about the cost of management of
this land. What if his kids aren't as rich or don't care as much about nature?
What if he has 6 kids and they split the land equally; will 5 generations down
the line still feel attached to their distant relatives to be able to hold the
land together?

~~~
maxerickson
The conservation easement is likely to be durable. So the protection should
survive sales and such.

 _This donation, earmarked as a "conservation easement" (which typically
require landowners to forfeit the right to develop, subdivide, or otherwise
interfere with the preservation of a natural landscape),_

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deepnotderp
With the trump presidency coming up, we'll need more people like this. Even
the common people can do so, try dominating to some organizations.

~~~
treehau5
Less government regulatation, government doing less and citizens doing more?
Sounds like a political ideology I've heard of before...name is slipping me
right now.

~~~
Retra
Is it that one that never works because it is completely fragile,
unenforceable, and prone to divide-and-conquer over-runs by corporate
interests?

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lukego
Just randomly: one of my great internet regrets is flaming Tim Sweeney about
boring type system wars on "Lambda: The Ultimate" without realizing what an
impressive fellow he is :).

~~~
ethbro
I made a joke about Walter Bright's (of so many famous things) username
without knowing who it was. That was a distinct "Wow, I feel like an asshole"
day. So it happens to all of us, I guess; take your lumps and keep on trying
to be awesome.

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TJTorola
Here is a rough idea of what 7,000 acres looks like.
[https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2t4y1KUdvnlbUV1aW9CdHR1dF...](https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2t4y1KUdvnlbUV1aW9CdHR1dFU)

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jamesblonde
This is nice, but really it's pissing in the ocean, as somebody said. In
Sweden, we have "the right to roam". The idea is that all land is accessible
by anyone. Any citizen can walk on any private property, subject to not
damaging it or coming to close to an abode. You have rights but also
responsibilities. There's none of this nonsense of breaking your leg on
somebody's property and then suing them (as is done in Ireland, where private
property is king).

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RayVR
This is a tax scheme to offset massive amounts of income. I have looked at
many of these deals. You can generally get multiples of 3-10x the value based
on the government discount tables.

Congrats to him for playing it this way.

~~~
formula1
Please provide a source(s). I appreciate this kind of knowledge because I have
little faith in american upperclasses approach to good will. But unless I see
proof, I dont want to feel like ab angry fool

~~~
1123581321
You don't need to either way. Our government provides this large tax break
incentive intentionally because it is good for the earth.

~~~
RayVR
If you simply google this incentive you'll see that it's history long predates
any popular notion of environmental preservation.

~~~
1123581321
You're right, and in the last ten years or so (after the IRS took notice and
started cracking down on abuses) it's become an intentional conservation
strategy. The recent legislation to increase the valuation demonstrates this.

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spullara
This is become a popular way to avoid paying income taxes. This year it moved
from being able to offset 30% of income to 50% of income. It can be 100% of
income if you are a farmer.

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gild
All right, I'll play devil's advocate.

What happens a couple of centuries from now, when the Eastern Seaboard is
overpopulated and we have 40,000 acres of land being held in limbo by the
Sweeney Foundation?

Having this land being preserved in its natural splendor for future
generations to enjoy is a worthy and noble goal, but what happens when we need
housing more than we need forests?

Granted, I know this is only a small portion of the land in North Carolina
(62.5 sq. mi / ~53,800 sq. mi or roughly 0.12%), but if 2-3 billionaires every
generation pay to keep land pristine and untouchable forever, it'll add up
over the centuries.

Just something to think about.

~~~
Buge
Overpopulation is ending. Fertility rates are declining and are almost below
replacement rate.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate)

~~~
coldnebo
Are you saying the process that creates risk is ending or that we are simply
hitting a boundary condition (i.e. The edge of the Petri dish)?

TFR is synthetic based on population behavior (I.e. Not solely intrinsic, such
as genetic).

My point is that there is a feedback-loop at work here. Educated women self-
select against reproduction because the consequences are more obvious. But
under-educated women still have high TFR-- they will need to hit hard
boundaries (starvation, dieback).

I don't think the process of overpopulation is ending, just clamped.

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alanz1223
Had it been musk though, oh you people would have sacrificed a small child in
his name. I applaud this guy, doing more than most of the people that claim to
be saviours or at least perceived that way.

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pashapiro
I've found that undeveloped land in low-demand, rural areas tends to go for
about $2,000/acre. It jumped out at me in the headline that the donation was
about the same rate.

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photonwins
You don't have to be rich to do this.

[http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/short-film-
showcas...](http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/short-film-
showcase/india-man-plants-forest-bigger-than-central-park-to-save-his-island)

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tomovo
I try to help whenever I can...
[http://www.laphroaig.com/default.aspx?ReturnURL=/friends/reg...](http://www.laphroaig.com/default.aspx?ReturnURL=/friends/registration/CodeCheck.aspx)

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qwertyuiop924
Is it a tax dodge? Yes.

But it's a _really cool_ tax dodge.

~~~
oliyoung
it's not a dodge, it's exactly the reason these deductions exist, to encourage
philanthropy and charity

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fb03
Can't expect less from the legend that created the programmable roguelike
system ZZT.

Long live to you, Tim!

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kayoone
Maybe its the same reason as Sam Altman has for owning a remote patch of land
so that in case of things going really bad, he can fly there because he has
all the important stuff (water, food, antibiotics, gold etc) stored there.

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maxxxxx
I am a little cynical maybe but I wouldn't be surprised if they built a luxury
resort next to it and only wealthy clients can access it. I would be more
positive if it were run like a national park accessible to all.

~~~
zokier
> if they built a luxury resort next to it and only wealthy clients can access
> it.

Would that be such a bad thing though? Seems like lot better than not having
protected land at all.

~~~
maxxxxx
It's a problem in the sense that more and more area is accessible only to rich
people. There is a good reason that ocean beaches in the US are accessible to
everyone.

~~~
tjbiddle
How about an idea like this:

\- Setup non-taxable charity \- Inject $15M in charity \- Purchase $15M of
land, make it accessible to wealthy only for a price of $X with monthly/annual
dues of $X \- Accumulate $15M in non-taxable profits \- Purchase $15M of land
\- Make first segment open to public, repeat process.

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eadlam
Is there anything like Kickstarter where citizens can pool their money to buy
up land for conservation?

~~~
douche
In Quebec, there are a huge number of Zec's[1]. Basically non-profit, co-op
hunting and fishing clubs. Quebec does have the advantage that there is a huge
amount of mostly empty Crown land, but they are pretty common in the denser
section south of the St. Lawrence as well.

[1] [http://www.perc.org/blog/what-world-zec](http://www.perc.org/blog/what-
world-zec)

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deepnotderp
Just bought some stuff from Epic games after reading this, keep it up :)

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tn13
A lot of billionaires are doing this. I am no billionaire but I purchased a
small hunting grounds in Arizona few years back.

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daveheq
Yay! Thank you human CEO being.

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mcs_
Pay to build

Pay to not build

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knowaveragejoe
Hopefully we see similar efforts from others. The incoming president has
stated he plans to gut the EPA and potentially even divvy up some
state/national parks for development. Private donors will have to win out over
commercial interests, as far as conservation is concerned.

~~~
mikeyouse
You're not joking..

The guy who's in charge of Trump's EPA transition thinks that climate change
is a hoax, that the Clean Power Plan is illegal, that the Endangered Species
Act should be repealed, that the Paris Climate Agreement is unconstitutional.

The likely pick to head the DOE is a lobbyist for the oil industry who wants
to open up Federal lands for energy exploration.

Good lord this election is going to have far-reaching consequences.

~~~
losteric
It's not just Trump, the entire government is seeing red. The Republicans have
control of the House, Senate, Presidency, and they will take control of the
Judicial branch as well. It's a conservative wet dream.

In four years, we'll either have a 1-party system or an N-party system.

~~~
s4vi0r
>It's a conservative wet dream.

Man, c'mon - why you gotta lump all conservatives in with these people? You
can be a conservative without being an absolute anti-science/anti-
intellectual/anti-environment/etc lunatic.

~~~
oxide
you can be a liberal without being a bleeding-heart.

but you can't _vote_ liberal without voting in bleeding-hearts. it's the same
for conservatives. sooner or later you're going to have to vote for an
absolute anti-science/anti-intellectual/anti-environment/etc lunatic.

when partisanship trumps all, almost none of it is so black and white. it
becomes shades of grey.

~~~
Taek
That I think is a huge problem in our government. Why can't I vote for both
smaller military and bigger NASA at the same time?

Why when I decide climate change is super important do I also have to align
with 15 other unrelated policies as well?

Parties are all-or-nothing and that's painful. Because I find that no party
represents me in more than like 20% of my political positions.

I should be able to delegate better.

~~~
jlarocco
That's a self-imposed problem. There were 22 choices for president on my
ballot. Until people wake up and start looking at the other 20 parties the
current system is what we get.

~~~
ethbro
It's an electoral system problem. From a game theory standpoint there is no
reason to ever vote third party.

If we'd had a more nuanced system that allowed voting negative in addition to
positive... pretty sure Johnson would have won.

~~~
BrandonM
I'm hoping that Maine's Ranked Choice Voting[0] (instant runoff) is an answer
to some of the problems inherent in our current winner-take-all system. It
passed in Maine; hopefully it achieves its aims and spreads.

[0] [http://www.rcvmaine.com/](http://www.rcvmaine.com/)

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douche
Fantastic, great work Tim Sweeny.

One note of caution, is that sometimes when private individuals buy up these
big chunks of land from the government or big land-management organizations,
they restrict access and traditional activities on that land in ways that
mightily piss off the locals. It's a not uncommon point of contention in the
north woods of Maine where I grew up; IP or Meade or Plumb Creek tends to be
pretty lax about hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, etc, as long as their lumber
is left alone and the roads aren't ripped up. Millionaires from away have a
tendency to lock it down and post everything, in a modern-day form of
enclosure.

~~~
david-given
I come from Scotland, and that's one of the weirdest things to get used to in
other countries: that someone can just fence off a patch of wilderness, say
'that's mine' and stop anyone from going in. It feels oddly alien; I can't
think of a worse way to teach respect for the countryside. If it's land that's
being used for something, that's one thing. Generic wilderness? That just
seems wrong.

(Scotland doesn't have trespass is the same sense that other countries have.
The legal system is quite different from English law, which I believe
(vaguely) is what the US system was based on.)

~~~
alistairSH
For those interested, here's a quick overview...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Scotland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Scotland)

tl;dr - The Land Reform Act 2003 codified the long-held tradition of
unhindered access to open country. This includes the great estates, forestry
land, etc. Basically, as long as you behave, you can hike, camp, cycle
anywhere you like. Obvious exclusions would be somebody's yard adjacent to
their home, areas with active livestock activity, etc.

~~~
Agentlien
This sounds very similar to what we have in Sweden with Allemansrätten
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden)

~~~
alistairSH
Not surprising, given the shared history. Scotland can be very Nordic-like on
some issues.

------
johansch
Quite a leap from building Jill of the Jungle
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4IArecoE_c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4IArecoE_c)).

~~~
joakleaf
Jill of the Jungle was one of those shareware games where the technology (and
graphics) was not great, but the gameplay was!

It came after id software had developed smooth scrolling games (albeit only in
EGA) and the scrolling in Jill just felt pretty bad. Smooth scrolling was
certainly possible in 256 color VGA, and they could also have used mode X to
perform fast blits (4 pixel moves). They didn't use the smooth scrolling
registers, and it didn't seem like they used mode X - at least the game did
not feel like it.

However, I think, keeping the scrolling implementation simple, enabled them to
focus on gameplay and sound on the Sound Blaster -- a relatively cool and
unique thing at the time! Thus a classic example of not getting distracted by
the tech side of things, but focusing on user experience.

I dazzled quite a bit with side scrollers then, and it took me a long time to
uncover the possible ways to use the VGA hardware on the 286 and 386 for
scrolling -- It was really hard to find information about the VGA hardware
registers around 1990/1\. By the time I had it nailed, the 486DX was already
common and fast enough that everything could be done trivially on the CPU.
Thus everything I had struggled to learn about smooth scrolling on the VGA
hardware became obsolete. That was how I learned, not to spend too much time
trying to optimize (prematurely) for current hardware!

~~~
johansch
> I dazzled quite a bit with side scrollers then, and it took me a long time
> to uncover the possible ways to use the VGA hardware on the 286 and 386 for
> scrolling -- It was really hard to find information about the VGA hardware
> registers around 1990/1\. By the time I had it nailed, the 486DX was already
> common and fast enough that everything could be done trivially on the CPU.
> Thus everything I had struggled to learn about smooth scrolling on the VGA
> hardware became obsolete. That was how I learned, not to spend too much time
> trying to optimize (prematurely) for current hardware!

I did the same, but with the 486 in 1993! And I wasn't connected at all, no
BBS:es, just sharing copies of copies of copies of floppies (etc etc). It's
hard to imagine the dearth of information nowadays, and how valuable every
scrap of information was. Now and then you'd get across this goldmine of
information (in the form of some source code), and spend weeks/months
understanding it all.

I spent so much time experimenting with Turbo Pascal, inline assembly and VGA
mode 13h and mode X. And trying to build the ultimate sprite and tile
engine...

The good thing about not being connected though: it was easy to stay
concentrated on one issue at a time.

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Pica_soO
Awesome, wish we had more of this kind of silent heroes, investing into
biodiversity and keeping a little bit of nature save from the worst animal on
the planet.

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perfmode
Of course it changes the world.

~~~
ronilan
More accurately, prevents changing the world.

~~~
mc32
Physically yes, but it changes attitudes towards how we view our environment
and that's refreshing coming from a corp.

~~~
zokier
I don't think this comes from the corp, but from an individual (who just
happens to be most famous for running a corp).

------
h4nkoslo
I'm always curious about the model fans of this approach are using. What is
the "correct" amount of conserved land? Given that the government essentially
never reverses these kinds of easements or grants, you have to be extremely
confident of future possible uses of the land to say that deeding it in
perpetuity is a good idea.

The HN crowd tends to realize that a policy of "never build anything ever
again" is a bad idea in SF, but is a great idea as long as the area in
question is mostly trees not in their backyard.

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fiatjaf
This is stupid. He should have bought the area and protected it himself. This
donation will be used to finance wars and hire government employees that will
stand in their desks the whole day waiting for someone to bribe them, not a
single penny will be used to protect land or animals. Never give your money to
the government, it doesn't matter what are you thinking, it is never a good
idea.

~~~
jstelly
The article links to a more accurate piece. He did buy the property for $15M.
He then created an easement preventing development and donated that easement
to US Fish & wildlife.

He has also bought other property for the same purpose.

He created this easement partially because a developer sued to use eminent
domain to force him to allow them to construct a power line across the
property.

[http://www.citizen-
times.com/story/news/local/2016/11/08/box...](http://www.citizen-
times.com/story/news/local/2016/11/08/box-creek-wilderness-permanently-
protected/93443704/)

