
Google removes all Danish music from YouTube - erk__
https://www.koda.dk/about-us/press-release-google-removes-all-danish-music-from-youtube
======
supernova87a
As in so many disputes, the parties (koda.dk here) will claim this is about
principles and yada yada yada, "Google removes all Danish music from Youtube",
etc.

You can be guaranteed though, it's always just about the price and how the one
party doesn't want to pay it, and the other party doesn't want to change it.

ESPN doesn't want to pay MLB, Comcast doesn't want to pay local stations, app
developers don't want to pay Apple. It goes on and on.

The article has the headline "On the evening of Thursday 30 July, Google
announced that they will soon remove all Danish music content on YouTube".

Yet in the next paragraphs, it goes on to describe a change in terms
promulgated by Google after a treaty expiration, and that "Of course, Koda
cannot accept these terms".

Well then, this is a decision by Google, and then a decision by Koda isn't it?

Yet they make it sound like Google is the big bad entity. Isn't that
convenient.

~~~
dgellow
Google uses their dominant position to ask a reduction of 70%. How do you want
Koda to accept those terms? Why would artists work with Koda if they don’t
push back on such a ridiculous demand? It’s their job to say no here.

~~~
donor20
It's also such an obvious lie - I can trivially find lots of danish music on
youtube. The music that has been taken down is the music that has not been
licensed through the copyright society at the price they want.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sK5OiJHHQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sK5OiJHHQ)

Do you not see the difference between a headline that is a bit more honest -
Google removes unlicensed music? Or google and danish copyright society cannot
agree to terms?

~~~
erk__
I had originally used the title of the document which is "PRESS RELESE: ..."
but it has since been altered. I had not removed it because I thought it made
it clearer that this did not come from a neutral party. As it is a press
release from one of the parties in this issue.

Also, I do not know where you are from, but I am currently residing in Denmark
and that music video you have linked is only accessible with YouTube Premium.
As far as know this is only an issue when accessing the music from Denmark.

~~~
JAlexoid
Ask the author why... They'll tell you that these "music associations" are
government enforced rackets that benefit the big artists alone. (No shocker
here!)

~~~
donor20
It's not that bad. In the US there are 5 PROs which is better than a lot of
places. And it does make licensing for users of music easier to have these
societies.

That said, in Europe these are more like monopolies. Still not bad it will be
interesting to see if Youtube at some point starts charging for distribution.

Spotify does this with sponsored songs - you can pay to get distribution.

------
beaner
Musicians need to wake up and realize that there is almost no money in
recordings. Recordings are advertisements for performances. You make money
from shows and concerts.

You can't charge tech companies more than they themselves are making from the
music. Just because they're big companies doesn't mean they can squeeze water
from a rock. Your music is worth much less to them than you assume.

~~~
mrweasel
But is that reasonable? Shouldn’t the musicians be the ones how decide how
much they want for their music?

What if you can’t put on concerts, like it’s the case right now, do your work
then become worthless?

Honestly I think the issue is the record labels. The need to seriously reduce
their cut and let the musicians keep the bulk of the royalties.

It’s a little concerning that a Youtube channel with maybe 500 - 1000 Patreon
supports and few ads can be a living, but musicians need to tour, to make a
profit. That seems to indicate, to me at least, that Youtube may not be the
problem.

~~~
pmlnr
> Shouldn’t the musicians be the ones how decide how much they want for their
> music?

You mean release on [https://bandcamp.com](https://bandcamp.com) ?

~~~
throwlogon
Exactly this. Bandcamp's straightforward, egalitarian deal is exactly what any
artist below the superstar level needs.

Put your stuff out, set your price, handle your own publicity, Bandcamp takes
their cut. That's it.

------
metalliqaz
They should be happy. Google exited their market. Now they can capture all the
customers with their own platform and keep all the money.

~~~
eejjjj82
You do realize that high resolution video hosting and serving is about the
most expensive thing you can do on the internet? Just see Vimeo's fee
schedule.

~~~
stefan_
As so many things, it gets a lot cheaper once you are a monopoly. Can't very
well not peer with YouTube.

~~~
adrianN
It's still really expensive.

~~~
candiodari
Didn't Google brag about investing 2 _billion_ dollars/year in just their
network a few years back ?

------
Shorel
Would be funny if the combined resources of three countries end up creating a
strong YouTube competitor.

The world needs a YouTube competitor sooner than later.

~~~
Abishek_Muthian
Creating a competitor is simple enough, making the video from that platform
appear above a video from the YouTube on the Google search is what would
determine its fate.

Then again, if anyone can make Google accountable it's EU.

~~~
hiccuphippo
What competitors are out there already? If the problem is popularity I'll
contribute by searching there first, then YouTube.

~~~
ratww
Not exactly competitors, but today I mostly use Nebula and CuriosityStream
instead of Youtube when I want long-form bedtime videos. Both are paid,
unfortunately, but for $20 a year I think it's more than worth it.

~~~
scriptkiddy
As far as I understand, Nebula is also co-owned by content creators
themselves. Also, they see direct revenue from subscriptions.

~~~
ratww
I had no idea! That makes me happy, as I want to support them.

------
1nverseMtx
No sympathy for music licensing bodies. Lacks any details about previous deals
or how those compare world wide.

~~~
coffeefirst
The weird thing is that licensing bodies, like writers guilds et al, are
supposed to represent the financial interests of artists and other folks
involved in the process.

They've built a reputation for being stodgy and backwards because of their
ham-fisted handling of DRM/piracy/mp3 sales, but insisting that YouTube
funnels real money back to artists is exactly what they ought to be doing.

------
scott31
Koda wants to have their cake and eat it too. Seems like Google is right in
this case.

~~~
nindalf
Koda is wrong for _not_ wanting to take a 70% cut in revenue? I wonder if
you'd be open to the idea of a 70% pay cut? Probably not right? Now what if
your employer was the only employer where you live?

~~~
msh
Well the problem here is also what they want money for.

Youtube pays the same in these two cases

\- Someone watches the newest taylor swift music video. \- I upload a video of
my kid doing something funny where taylor swift is accidentally played in the
background.

Should the music industry be payed the same in both cases?

------
wcoenen
This is difficult to interpret without the details of the original agreement,
which are not mentioned in the post. If google was paying more than the ad
revenue on the content, then not extending the agreement would be reasonable.

------
twhitmore
Sounds like a very aggressive negotiating tactic on Google's part.

They're scared that if the Nordic agreement succeeds, they'd gradually be bid
up on content pricing everywhere.

Koda and the Nordic group are not necessarily in a weak position. But might be
in an even stronger position if they had an alternative video/ streaming
service to recommend, which paid them higher content partner rates.

It will only take one content provider to hold out for long enough, yet still
be an attractive market at higher content rates, to break Google's embargo.
Good luck.

~~~
drivingmenuts
How is it aggressive? If an agreement to do Thing is necessary, and you don’t
have an agreement, you just stop doing the Thing.

Koda is just starting from a weaker position than YouTube.

~~~
josefx
The article mentions that a temporary extension to the already existing
agreement is normal and expected during negotiations. So Google not doing it,
presumably to apply pressure on the negotiations is agressive.

>Koda is just starting from a weaker position than YouTube.

Ideally negotiations should be between equals. If this is just Google throwing
its e dick around then they need to get a few more antitrust fines.

~~~
JAlexoid
KODA is literally a government sanctioned monopoly.

~~~
erk__
KODA have not been that really the last 6ish years and by law they have not
been it the last 4. There was a EU law in 2014 that made a law against it.

------
fermienrico
With all this anti-Google sentiments, I find Youtube absolutely priceless for
all the things I've gained for free from it from so much education, DIY tips,
MIT lectures on Thermodynamics, live streaming from ISS and thousands and
thousands of amazing things that have enriched my life.

I would pay the shit out of Youtube if it ever made it mandatory to pay for
it. I would pay $200 a month just to access the historical archive of all this
knowledge even if they stopped uploading new content.

Youtube has enriched society on a monumental scale. I hate big companies and
their monopoly position but the level of entitlement in this thread is
absurdly unfair. The world would be significantly worse without YouTube.

~~~
tsycho
Are you paying for their ad-free premium experience today? It's $10/month,
much lesser than the $200 you are willing to pay.

------
defertoreptar
Hard to judge without knowing how much more Koda wants compared to other
content providers. Anyone know this?

------
qwerty456127
Hardly heard any Danish music ever. Reading reviews, listening and downloading
now :-)

~~~
Eyght
One of the classics. Gasoline - This is my life

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqd-
JcjQo8I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqd-JcjQo8I)

~~~
jakear
...not available. Isn’t that the point of this thread?

~~~
AnssiH
Only blocked in some countries, the video works fine in most of Europe,
Canada, Australia, South America, and India.

Map: [https://polsy.org.uk/stuff/ytrestrict.cgi?ytid=Jqd-
JcjQo8I](https://polsy.org.uk/stuff/ytrestrict.cgi?ytid=Jqd-JcjQo8I)

------
wintermutestwin
Somewhat off topic: I live in fear that one day, I'll wake to find that
youtube pulled all the live shows and music that isn't on AM/Spotify due to
neglect or licensing BS. Or even worse, that they decide to make their ads
unblockable by stitching them in.

Solving this problem seems overwhelmingly complex: On one hand, it is against
youtube's ToS to download (even for archival), but on the other, youtube (and
the majority of the uploaders) don't have the rights for that content in the
first place.

------
barrkel
Two rentiers fighting it out for the biggest slice of the pie.

------
mjul
For reference, there is a lot of relevant financial background information in
their (Koda’s) Annual Reports:

[https://www.koda.dk/about-us/annual-reports-transparency-
rep...](https://www.koda.dk/about-us/annual-reports-transparency-report-and-
analyses)

------
grumple
In the long term, I think platforms will find that consumers care more about
content than the platforms. It’s just as easy to watch a video on Vimeo or a
private site as YouTube, and the quality is usually equal, and sometimes
better. Platforms have some lock-in due to networking effects and content
storage, but for businesses built around getting eyeballs on unique content
(like music), that means basically nothing.

------
anton96
I'm certainly one of the rare people who planned (for the next week!) to take
youtube music and premium just to be sure to have access to all danish song
but finally nope.

No I'm not danish but when you like different languages and commercial hip
hop,danish hip hop is not that bad !

~~~
erk__
The music is still accessible outside of Denmark, at least for now, not sure
if that will change.

------
fhchl
I am residing in Denmark. Since today, I have not been able to listen many
songs in my YT playlists as "this content is unavailable in your conrtry".

Might this not only be about Noridic artists, but rights of musicians in
Nordic contries in general?

~~~
erk__
It is artists who have their rights administrated by KODA in Denmark. It may
also include things like Danish songwriters as well.

------
Aunche
It looks like this only applies to Koda members. From their website, it
doesn't look like all Danish musicians are members of Koda, so the title is
misleading.

------
ultrablack
These musicians can just build their own compeeting video platform. At least
they are very keen to present such an argument when discussing social media
censorship.

------
reportgunner
_reduce the payment provided to composers and songwriters for YouTube’s use of
music by almost 70%_

Yes but pirating is bad.

------
wyxuan
this is a press release, perhaps the link should be replaced with a neutral
party: [http://cphpost.dk/?p=117112](http://cphpost.dk/?p=117112)

------
JohnRLewis_v2
Put shortly ... The C.V. of Google, is something Google's decision-makers
would be wise to "include" ...

Right now, people (Musicians and music-lovers) in the Nordic Countries, have
got an experience, that should have been avoided, and that can be
"neutralized" by Google's change of course.

C.V ...what to be remembered by and being proud of : \- like "we did build
this country, this company"... \- right now, it's the opposite: We Ruined
Musicians Lifes, and We Ruined Music ... \- If this is, what Google wants to
be remembered by, then well ...

Rewriting history : \- like Trump and especially eastern leaders/rulerships,
one can of course always "make it all fit and shine" ... like Trump has been
doing, again and again...

The Trump way of doing things : \- This "Tank-like" way of acting and dealing
with other living people, running over ... makes Google's policy look a lot
like Trump's... \- That is: Resistence (or not "100% obediance from Nordi
Koda/Musicians) => a "Trumpish" reaction: YOU ARE DEAD, YOU ARE NOT-WORTHY -
AND "YOU ARE FIRED" / OUT OF THE GAME !!! ... \- that is: Being the
chef/owner, running things in a "cartoon-like cathegorial way" ... in which
empathy-etc is 100% "put-aside / cut-off".

My Hope ... is that Google will "look inside", re-evaluate, and rethink their
"quick decision", and then take-in and include the different perspectives ...
And, in this way, I urge Google to get inspired by people like John-Robert-
Lewis, who changed the "standard way of doing things and acting" in the 50's
and 60's ... changed this peacefully, and in a time-long proces made the
Leaders and people RETHINK their decisions, policies, and behaviour .... The
same I am hoping, that Google will do here (and other dominant companies (and
governments) will do ...

In this, there is a "rethink money" factor. Instead of "making money", then
spend them where they are needed .... If, for instance, Google wants to AID
MUSIC, then Google could give (enough) money to the Musiciens, to make
"vision" happen in real life.... (so Please! Google, rethink and get back on
the right track - and do something (good) that I am sure you want to be
remembered by - and that fits your Officiel Image !!!)

------
vondur
Wait, does that mean no King Diamond?

~~~
drivers99
King Diamond is on Roadrunner (1986 - 1990) and Metal Blade (1995 - now).[1]
Actually looks like he's re-releasing his old stuff on Metal Blade as well.[2]
(Tempting to pick it up on Vinyl when I already have the original CDs.)

Anyway, those are US labels and distributed by for instance WMG outside the
US. I would assume those have nothing to do with that Koda group; Metal Blade
even has uploaded entire albums of his on YouTube.[3]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Diamond_discography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Diamond_discography)

[2]
[https://www.kingdiamondcoven.com/news](https://www.kingdiamondcoven.com/news)

[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_6oMRtc118&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_6oMRtc118&feature=youtu.be&t=91)

------
neves
I know zero about Danish music. Please, tell me the good music I'll be
missing. BTW, I don't like electronic music.

~~~
Fiahil
They have a good heavy metal scene. Groups like Volbeat, Pretty Maids, etc

------
ikyriakidis
Time to switch to Spotify...

------
zentiggr
The site is apparently in the HoD phase - could I ask a polite TL;DR?

~~~
andybak
(HoD = "Hug of Death" \- please don't use obscure TLAs* - it makes people feel
excluded)

(* three letter acronyms)

EDIT - and it means something like "site down because it's been linked to from
here and can't handle the traffic)

EDIT2 - "tl;dr" is at least easy to google...

~~~
zentiggr
I didn't think that one was obscure _here_. Point taken.

~~~
gruez
fwiw I’ve seen the term “hug of death” term used for years but that did not
cross my mind when I saw “HoD”.

~~~
qlm
My first thought was "Hood of Defiance".

------
tomcam
Not sure why this isn’t topping HN

