
LSD microdoses make people feel sharper, and scientists want to know how - rbanffy
http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/24/15403644/microdosing-lsd-acid-productivity-benefits-brain-studies
======
got2surf
While this is a really interesting article, there may be some issues around
the "placebo effect" of taking a microdose vs physical effects of the
microdose. (Granted, the impact of "having more creative moments" may be the
same either way, which could be a win in itself)

[https://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing](https://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing)
this article was posted on HN a few years back, and talks about an self-
administered blind study of microdosing, which found limited benefits of
microdosing, counter to most anecdotal examples.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
Yeah, my problem with these sorts of microdosing stories is that, like
drinking, LSD can really screw with your perception of things.

So you could feel sharper, but really, you're probably doing much worse than
when you're sober

~~~
sametmax
Except in small dosages, alcohol has known positive effects. E.G: stress
relieve, social acceptance and positive group dynamics.

There is no reason to think that LSD does not have some positive effects as
well.

~~~
andy_ppp
The point of science is to prove things and refine them correctly; this hacker
news comment is not conclusive proof that some small amount of alcohol is a
net positive, let alone microdosing LSD. Contrary to your very clear positive
statement, microdosing is totally unknown if it works at all.

These systems are incredibly complicated to prove anything in and we are so
much more suggestible than we feel we are.

We can't even agree on what LSD should be increasing with microdosing, is it
IQ, coding ability or concentration?

~~~
amorphous_hn
Hey, I don't have any real evidence to add, but I would often read articles
about LSD microdosing and assumed it was bullshit.

After trying it on myself 5-10ug / day for 6+ months, I think it's been
incredibly beneficial.

The crux of it is that if you drop a full tab and pay attention, you'll notice
LSD is _extremely_ stimulating - far more than psilocybin. It has a very high
level of dopamine receptor activation, which is why even 10 hours into a trip
I would notice how different the quality of my attention was - in essence, it
was far easier to simply be aware of what was going on.

(Note I have adhd-pi so that's part of why I think microdosing works for me)

In short, a microdose gives the dopaminergic stimulatory benefits, without
being overwhelmingly twitchy. It produces a less linear style of thinking than
amphetamines (adderall/vyvanse/desoxyn), but still increases general energy,
focus, quality of attention etc. Colors feel a tiny bit sharper, visual acuity
feels slightly enhanced, physical body control is significantly enhanced (I
have far better posture and general neuromuscular control).

Obviously this isn't rigorous evidence, but hopefully it gives a general idea
of why one would microdose.

One final thing - 25ug or even 15ug is far too much. IMO 10ug is the upper
limit of what would be considered a microdose. My preference is 4-8 ug
(obviously dosed as liquid)

------
Asparagirl
Interesting tidbit at the end of the article about LSD microdosing reportedly
fixing twelve female subjects' irregular/painful menstrual cycles.

~~~
taxicabjesus
> Interesting tidbit at the end of the article about LSD microdosing
> reportedly fixing twelve female subjects' irregular/painful menstrual
> cycles.

Thanks for commenting this - I would've skipped the article otherwise.
Conventional medicine doesn't have any good options for women with such
problems. Two of my passengers going take home from the emergency room were
monthly sufferers of dysmenorrhea. One was "economically stressed", the other
was on drugs (edit: prescriptions) that never allowed her cycles to normalize
themselves.

Edit2: another was made suicidal with Depo-Provera...

I've started drafting 'the predicaments of doctors and patients', where I have
something to say about the medical industry. Maybe I'd be able to finish it if
I got some microdose LSD, lol.

    
    
      Fadiman reads an email from a British art historian in 
      her 20s, long afflicted with painful, irregular 
      menstruation. “‘I only microdosed that one month. My 
      periods are regular. You have changed my life. Thank 
      you.’ I’ve been in psychedelic research a long, long 
      time, and no one’s ever considered or mentioned or 
      thought about the possibility that psychedelics had 
      anything do with menstrual periods, particularly 
      difficult ones. However, now that that bit of search 
      has happened, we started looking for it.” Twelve women, 
      he says, have reported improved menstruation after 
      microdosing.

~~~
castle-bravo
It makes sense in a roundabout way. LSD was first synthesized as part of a
study of ergotamine analogues. Ergotamine [1] is still used to decrease
uterine bleeding after childbirth (but use has largely been replaced by a
superior analogue).

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotamine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotamine)

------
northband
So this kind of article is excellent and I really am excited about how
entheogen can potentially heal productivity to depression.

I have been very interested in this concept and approach as I know several
people who could benefit from this - myself included.

Psychedelics are tools and are not to be taken lightly. As much as an advocate
as I am for them I also agree that they're not for everyone.

Finally being able to have access to testing and experimentation we may
discover even more capabilities.

However, what drives me crazy is how are we supposed to get the medicine?
Especially in the case of LSD I am concerned of purity and risk of finding it.

It's a lot different now than it was in the 80's - at least here in the
midwest. We no longer have the Grateful Dead and/or "family" providing clean
sources. To make matters worse it's most likely the > 40 year olds crowd who
would be interested in this but who is going to sell a 'mom or dad looking
person' a hit of acid? Hanging out in the concert lot isn't what it used to be
;-).

Perhaps in places like Marin County there still is some availability. I hope
so and I hope it once agains paints it's way across the country/world.

~~~
forgotpwtomain
> Especially in the case of LSD I am concerned of purity and risk of finding
> it.

LSD is active doses < 100µg - there are almost no other substances active at
these kinds of levels.

~~~
cryptarch
NBOMe's are! They also have psychadelic effects but are a lot riskier and tend
to last longer.

It's a good thing they have a bitter taste, and if your LSD has a
bitter/metallic taste: spit! It shouldn't taste like anything and you don't
want HPPD.

~~~
amorphous_hn
Nbomes requiee a higher dosage than LSD.

[REDACTED] has never tasted anything but paper on tabs, but some claim a
metallic taste when there is none. The best protocol is to swallow the tab, in
which case nbomes will not have an effect (they must be sublingually
absorbed). There is little reason to take LSD sublingually although it is
quite common among recreational users - which is again silly because if you
swallow you can guarantee that nbomes won't affect you

~~~
forgotpwtomain
That's interesting, can you provide a reference for NBOMEs having to be taken
sublingually to have an effect?

------
qeternity
I am genuinely curious to hear from someone who has taken both, how LSD
microdosing affects them versus amphetamine salts (i.e. adderall)

~~~
tmp72636
The differences are subtle with small dosages, and there might be a
substantial placebo effect.

But as a personal summary, LSD makes me smile and I feel like a better person.
On it, I find myself preferring good life choices and productivity.
Amphetamine gives me endless focus and nervousness-flavored mental energy,
similar to too much coffee. As a bonus: Modafinil makes me almost angrily
opposed to distraction and slacking off.

~~~
pmoriarty
_" LSD makes me smile and I feel like a better person. On it, I find myself
preferring good life choices and productivity."_

This reminds me of the effect of low doses of marijuana.

~~~
amorphous_hn
Cannabis is more disabling IMO (I say that as someone that functions very well
on cannabis)

------
coldcode
While it seems interesting, I have no idea how one gets a trustworthy supply
of such micro doses, not to mention that fact that LSD is a schedule 1 drug.
Caffeine seems much easier to obtain.

~~~
drspacemonkey
That's my main concern with LSD microdosing. Especially in Vancouver, where
fentanyl is finding its way into pretty much every illicit drug.

~~~
mattnewton
Avoiding a drug because of it's scheduled status makes a lot of sense, and
because of what it might be cut with, but I am not sure why someone, or how
someone would cut LSD with fentanyl given how small I thought the effective
dose of LSD is comparatively and how different the effects are.

~~~
amorphous_hn
Without gc/ms you just don't know what's in your tab/liquid/etc. That being
said iirc it takes milligrams to OD on fent which means you'd be pretty safe
with tabs. Liquid is another story.

[REDACTED] acquired LSD tartrate, made solution w/ everclear, and then diluted
it such that one sip is roughly 4-8ug based on volume. That's the only real
way to microdose yourself, although you could cut a tab into 20 pieces
(depends on the lay but a skilled lay is evenly distributed. An unskilled lay
will have massive hotspots and thus one would need to dissolve the tab in a
solvent or cut it into n->infty pieces)

------
pessimizer
I knew a group of people 20 years ago who would take tiny doses of LSD in
order to maintain decisionmaking skills before going out for a night of
drinking. Most of these were people who didn't even like LSD, they just liked
drinking.

------
JKCalhoun
Who knew, synthemesc or drencrom could sharpen you up and make you ready for a
bit of the old ultra-violence.

(Sorry I had to.)

------
robocaptain
The podcast Reply All covered this in an episode last year:
[https://gimletmedia.com/episode/44-shine-on-you-crazy-
goldma...](https://gimletmedia.com/episode/44-shine-on-you-crazy-goldman/)

Obviously not scientific, but great anecdotal discussion.

~~~
hickmanish
It's one of the only dissenting anecdotes I've heard. Everyone everywhere is
raving about it ("drug fad du jour" from the article) but Reply All
participants both came away with negative and ambivalent opinions.

~~~
robocaptain
Yup. Made it feel more realistic to me, but I also don't have especially
strong opinions for or against use, although more research seems reasonable.

------
wklauss
"Feel" seems like the key word here. Unsure how much of this is the placebo
effect at work or just simple recursive autosuggestion (you expect to be more
sharp and so you are constantly checking for that sharpness and therefore find
that feeling validated)

~~~
rando444
Well the article does say that the researchers controlled for these things by
using a placebo.

There was a study done last year that scanned the brains of volunteers, some
given a placebo, and some given LSD, and the results were enough to convince
me that this is a topic worthy of more research.

~~~
cpncrunch
>Well the article does say that the researchers controlled for these things by
using a placebo.

Not quite. If you look at that study, it was for hallucinogenic doses of LSD,
not microdosing. Also, they didn't look at mental clarity/sharpness or
anything similar.

------
ekzy
Informative and fun podcast about LSD
[http://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-lsd-
works.htm](http://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-lsd-works.htm)

------
vixen99
Worth being aware that "In the United Kingdom, LSD is a Schedule 1 Class 'A'
drug. This means it has no recognized legitimate uses and possession of the
drug without a license is punishable with 7 years' imprisonment and/or an
unlimited fine, and trafficking is punishable with life imprisonment and an
unlimited fine."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Leg...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Legal_status)

------
yunocat
one thing not mentioned here but hinted at is tolerance -

The 4 day window between doses hinted at is pretty much required in order to
have anywhere near the same effect with the same quantity so doing this in a
regular way is more like 'regular chemical therapy' a couple times a week than
a 'morning pick me up' like cofee

not sure how tolerance builds over the long run - so could be wrong here if it
actually plateus; that said probably not the best idea to be on LSD every
single day if even in small doses..

~~~
Mo3
I've done it 30 days in a row once. Tolerance is really quite negligible at
these doses. However you do definitely notice full +50ug trips between for
about 1-2 days afterwards.

Also, tolerance is maybe the wrong word as it suggests that all effects are
diminished. With psychedelics, pretty much all of them except DMT when
microdosing, it seems more like this for continous microdosing without days
off:

Day 3-4: Loss of the psychedelic "touch" in thought and perception, including
associated creativity and easier ability to psychedelic thinking, now feels
more like a stimulant without associated amphetamine bodyload

Day 5-6: Slight loss of clarity

Day 8-9: Further loss of clarity and beginning loss of energy and stimulation

Day 12-13: Sober state becomes indistinguishable from microdose - true
tolerance sets in

~~~
Diederich
> negative bodyload

Can you expand on that? Thanks. (:

~~~
Mo3
Amphetamine bodyload? Shotgun 7-8 coffees and you'll know ;)

Nervous energy would be a better word, I guess.

------
kminehart
Is this comparable to achieving a similar effect with caffeine?

I know whenever I get into the office, I don't feel nearly as productive or
good at solving problems as I do whenever I drink an energy drink or a coffee.
Strictly anecdotal, of course, but still. Lots of talk about placebo.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
After a certain point and I imagine any adult is years/decades past this, all
you're doing is chasing away the withdrawal by taking caffeine. You're quite
literally addicted to it.

I've been on/off it several times and now only drink green tea so I have a bit
of experience here. I think ultimately it does nothing once I have a certain
amount of tolerance. Worse, I do know it hurts my sleep quality significantly
if taken anytime other than the morning or if too much is taken any time
during the day. Sleep quality seems to be the elephant in the room for many
white collar professionals, imo. So you may take caffeine to beat bad sleep
but then caffeine may cause bad sleep, so its an ugly cycle while the whole
time you're slowly becoming addicted to it.

That said, I've had good luck with ginseng as a morning 'pick me up.' Building
tolerance to it seems slow as well.

~~~
matt4077
I believe the idea of tolerance is somewhat overrated. It exists, but it's
probably not much different than tolerance to alcohol–which most people are
probably better at judging because the effects are more pronounced.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
I can get a decent tolerance to alcohol no problem, but it doesn't make me
feel like shit everyone morning until I have some nor does I get horrible
headaches if I try to quit. In fact, withdrawal is so bad its now listed in
the DSM-5:

Caffeine Withdrawal DSM-5 292.0 (F15.93)

Symptoms of caffeine withdrawal have been described since the early nineteenth
century but have only recently been researched (Ozsungur, Brenn & El-Sohemy,
2009) . The DSM-5 explains that the most common symptom of caffeine withdrawal
is headache. The headache is usually throbbing and sensitive to movement.
Headache is the most persistent symptom of caffeine withdrawal and can last as
long as three weeks. Changes in mood, such as depression and anxiety;
difficulty concentrating and fatigue are also common and can occur without
headache. Some patients experience flu-like symptoms such as nausea, vomiting
and achiness (American Psychiatric Association, 2013). Other symptoms include
caffeine cravings and increased appetite (Juliano, et al., 2012) These
symptoms begin within 12- 24 hours of caffeine cessation after prolonged daily
caffeine ingestion (American Psychiatric Association, 2013). 96% of patients
experience at least two symptoms during withdrawal (Juliana, et al., 2012)
Symptoms often occur on weekends when individuals tend to sleep in and begin
ingesting caffeine later in the day than normal. If caffeine cessation
continues, symptoms can last as long as nine days, with headaches lasting as
long as three weeks. Symptoms disappear almost instantly if caffeine
consumption resumes. Because many people underestimate their caffeine
consumption, symptoms are often unexpected and attributed to other causes,
such as illness (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

------
alistproducer2
I can concur with this article. Non-hallucinogenic doses of hallucinogens does
give one a feeling of clarity and purpose. This works with mushrooms as well
although obviously it's harder to get the dosage correct.

------
f4rker
"feel sharper" vs "actually sharper"

~~~
amorphous_hn
anecdotal, but I strongly believe it makes you actually sharper. Not everyone
needs more dopaminergic stimulation though (I certainly do to function in
society)

------
LinuxBender
Is there a way to get this legalized so that I can ask for this in my coffee
and so that my state can reap the tax benefits from it?

------
kazinator
Everything feels sharper because you're modestly applying a "high" pass
filter. :)

------
nnm
Self-claimed sharper is far from objectively sharper.

------
mr_spothawk
relevant?

[https://www.psychedelicsurvey.com](https://www.psychedelicsurvey.com)

------
webkike
I figured that in the title feeling sharper was literally feeling like you are
more pointy, given LSD

------
dmitripopov
Every stimulator drug always backfires. I won't be surprised if the subjects
of research will go into deep depression and productivity slump once they stop
microdosing therapy.

~~~
Mo3
They wont. I've microdosed daily for 30 days and the next day was completely
normal. Very, very happy and content, maybe.

~~~
dmitripopov
What about a week or two after that?

~~~
Mo3
Still not, I'm afraid. More clarity and spiritual insight and greatly enhanced
sense of belonging. It all comes down to what you do with the tool you're
given. What you have in mind.

~~~
dmitripopov
I also depends on your initial state and the source of your problems. If
there's a problem in your body chemistry and you take a stimulator that
temporarily fills holes in it, the whole structure will crash when you stop
taking it in.

~~~
Mo3
That goes for pretty much everything in these circumstances, yeah

