
Facebook acquires Mapillary - liotier
https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-joins-Facebook.html
======
tuukkah
Mapillary is cool technology and important to OpenStreetMap in many ways: 1)
Satellite imagery only gets you so far regarding object visibility and
recognition. 2) GPS locations and traces are inaccurate. 3) Google's ecosystem
provides a street view and to meet expectations, OSM should have one too.

Do you boycott React, which Facebook provides as Open Source as a contribution
to the JavaScript ecosystem?

Do you boycott Mapillary, which Facebook provides as Open Data as a
contribution to the OpenStreetMap ecosystem? Many parts of the system are Open
Source too: [https://github.com/mapillary](https://github.com/mapillary)

------
ATsch
I wonder if the OSM Community will draw any long-term conclusions about
trusting especially VC-backed companies from the fate of both Mapillary and
MapZen in the last year as well as earlier back-turns such as MapQuest.

In these cases, it always seemed to me, as an occasional editor, like the OSM
community was maybe overly eager to rely on services provided by external
companies with not enough concern given to long-term risks. But beggars can't
be chosers of course.

~~~
jmkb
I doubt this will be any kind of soul-searching moment for the OSM community.
OSM contributors make use of hundreds of different imagery sources from
volunteer, corporate, and government sources. Few mappers will be particularly
interested in the nitty-gritty of the funding. If the imagery is available
with a compatible license, it will be used in mapping. If not, mapping will
still happen, possibly more slowly. (On-the-ground survey is always the gold
standard.)

------
krick
Uh, ok, but for those who never heard of Mapillary, what does that _actually_
mean? Is it still something notable, even though we don't see it? I mean,
Facebook buys tons of stuff, it's not always clear how a particular
acquisition is interesting.

FWIW, "Mapillary’s involvement in OpenStreetMap" part doesn't explain to me
what this stuff really has to do with OSM either.

~~~
thinkingemote
Mapillary is basically the Google Street View part of OSM. There are a couple
of other street view offerings though.

Given that Google Maps was mainly built directly from street view (and gps)
this is important.

Additionally, recently, both fb and mapillary were using ML tech on images and
maps to extract info for a kind of automated mapping.

~~~
Doctor_Fegg
Though it's not "part of OSM" \- it's an entirely separate project (set up as
a VC-funded commercial entity, rather than a non-profit Foundation like OSM).
It does allow OSM to use its imagery and API for mapping purposes.

~~~
Krasnol
That "part of OSM" describes the good relationship the OSM community had with
Mapillary up until this moment.

Also I'm quite sure if they hadn't "allow" OSM to use its images, their photo
database would have been much smaller.

~~~
perennate
Facebook uses OpenStreetMap for many map displays so they may have an
incentive to improve OSM and continue maintaining the good relationship
between Mapillary and OSM. Facebook has contributed tools to OSM before, e.g.
the RapiD editor [1], though I don't think they are used much.

[1]
[https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RapiD](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RapiD)

~~~
Krasnol
I'm not sure how this is related to the comment before but what do you think
would happen if Facebook started misusing data of Mapillary for example? Do
you seriously think OSM would "lock them out" or something?

~~~
petre
Not possible. FB can use OSM data to build their own maps like everybody else
does.

~~~
rmc
Ish. If Facebook violate the OSM licence, then that's illegal and something
could be done about that. Though the OSMF would never be able to seriously
legally sue Facebook. One side has considerably more money than the other.

But if Facebook abided by the OSM licence, but did things the OSM community
really didn't like, the OSM project could shun them. Not accept sponsor ship,
block FB's RapiD software from making map changes, eject them as a corporate
member from the foundation, etc. They'd still be able to use the data, but
they'd be a persona non grata.

~~~
Krasnol
So in short:

Nothing would hurt Facebook at all.

------
KaiserPro
It will be interesting to see how effective facebook's rampup of"opensource"
OSM infrastructure will be.

They have bought other mapping companies, which on the surface look like they
are able to generate city scale point clouds. Combine those with mapillary's
very compelling annotation framework, and the resources to do street sign
detection, it looks like Facebook/OSM will be able to dramatically lower the
cost to entry for people wanting high quality fully featured maps.

This is facebook of course, so it equally turn to shit. But one has to at
least hope for a better outcome

------
wasmitnetzen
Previous discussion from 2 days ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23564854](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23564854)

~~~
dang
Normally we'd mark this one a dupe, but it looks like that thread was
underwater the whole time
([http://hnrankings.info/23564854/](http://hnrankings.info/23564854/)),
meaning it never made the front page. That's usually an indication of greater
interest, so we'll leave this one up.

Yes, it's on our list to write software to detect such cases.

------
tempodox
Never heard of Mapillary, but does that mean that web requests to OSM shovel
data to Facebook now? The article is too opaque and euphemistic to allow
practical conclusions.

Mapillary can “journey” wherever they want as long as they don't take me, as
their non-user, with them.

~~~
maxerickson
No direct impact on OSM services.

Mapillary is/was a private for profit company that allows people to extract
information from their crowd sourced photos and then add it to OpenStreetMap.
So a road sign or business name or whatever.

This arrangement encouraged lots of OSM users to contribute photos to
Mapillary, as it is a nice way to add information to OSM (and to enable others
to add information).

The indirect impact on OSM services is that turning on the view of the
Mapillary images in an OSM editor will request that data from Mapillary
servers (which are now Facebook servers). So you _can_ go to the OpenStreetMap
website and engage in an activity where you request data from Facebook
servers. But you have to sign in, activate the editor and then activate the
view of the images for that to happen.

A lot of the people that contributed heavily to Mapillary are disappointed
with this outcome, as they have strong feelings about Facebook. I've
contributed a little bit to Mapillary and will likely continue to do so, as
I'm not trying to create an open data street view commons, I'm using it as a
convenience.

~~~
blackboxlogic
it would take a lot of convincing for me to welcome Facebook into any project
I'm part of. I've pointed out to one of their POs that they are violating OSMs
copyright by not showing any attribution when browsing on mobile. I'm not
confident it will ever be fixed. When they ask to be integrated into a project
they're already abusing, the answer should be hard no. I'll reply to this
comment if they start respecting OSMs copyright (unless comments get locked?).
Just musing... but where do I file a DMCA?

~~~
maxerickson
Their use of the data is subject to section 4.3 of the ODBL. The language
there demands a notice "reasonably calculated" to make the user "aware" of the
data source. It doesn't demand on map attribution.

Attribution on the map is a clear, easy way to meet that bar (and acknowledges
the many OSM contributors that see a prominent notice as being necessary to
meet the license), but it isn't clear that the court tested bar will be so
high.

Note that I'm not drawing "We'll see you in court" as a good way for a company
to act towards a community, just commenting on where and how their obligations
are defined.

~~~
blackboxlogic
Well, browse to a FB page on mobile, and play "find the data source". When you
lose that game, I'd say they did not "make the user aware".

~~~
texasbigdata
Especially when the FB map guys go on podcasts and brag about how they use the
data source and how advanced they are.

------
lowdose
This is probably related to Facebook Aquila [0] drone project with the
ambition to deliver internet to the whole world. MVP successful in 2016 and
more developments in 2020.

With Tesla launching Starlink it wouldn't be a surprise with Zuckerberg's
competitiveness that he upgrades this specific part in his gameplay.

In the words of Jim Collins to maximize the impact of the limited supply of
gunpowder companies should first try to hit the the target with a riffle and
with the knowledge of a success, aim the canon and hit the target at first
attempt.

[0]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Aquila](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Aquila)

------
adsadsads
Possibilities of this acquisition are endless. For instance, combine the
location data in the Facebook App with the street view to identify which
businesses people are at - and charge higher ad prices to those users who were
previously saw an ad for that business.

~~~
easytiger
Do they have street view equivalent data? My understanding was they have
crowdsourced images/panoramas which are overlayed on a map using the geotags.

I'm not sure how that's even useful as anything other than a curiosity.

Perhaps I've missed something

~~~
jraph
One can use OsmAnd a bit like street view in places where Mapillary images are
available.

~~~
easytiger
I had a look but found it doesn't at all work like streetview

------
AlexTrask
5 edits on OSM since 2014 I can't see his interest on OSM

~~~
maxerickson
It's not incongruous to like and support OpenStreetMap and then also find
editing tedious and so look for other ways to contribute.

Like say using VC funding to create a company that makes tens of millions of
photos available for people that are editing OSM.

------
hk__2
Translation for those who don’t speak marketing: Facebook bought Mapillary.

~~~
TomJansen
Is seems that they really do not want to admit that they have been bought.
They make it sound like that they are in a partnership or something.

~~~
rcthompson
I don't understand this decision. Do they really think that creative wording
will keep people from figuring it out? And once people figure it out, the
"creative wording" just makes them look dishonest. Is it just about preventing
news websites from being able to use "FB bought us" as a direct quote?

~~~
Kiro
This is not the announcement post but in the very first sentence it says
"Today we announced that Mapillary has joined Facebook", linking to
[https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-
joins-F...](https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-joins-
Facebook.html)

Seems pretty clear to me.

~~~
Lammy
I agree that's pretty clear, but I can also see how "joins" can read like a
partnership or some other collaboration and not outright ownership.

------
jmkb
Admins, consider changing the link to
[https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-
joins-F...](https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-joins-
Facebook.html) \-- the current link implies that this is directly related to
OpenStreetMap, when in truth it's just a blog ("diary") of a Mapillary
employee hosted under his OSM user account.

~~~
dang
Ok, changed from
[https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358](https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358).

------
annadane
Stop letting them buy companies. The lack of ethics and trust they have from
people should preclude any of this from happening

~~~
annadane
Those who downvoted me: how're you enjoying your job at Facebook?

