
Reflections on Cannabis, Ayahuasca and the mystery of plant teachers - gnosis
http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/HancockG3.php
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exodust
"Perhaps they ARE all 'within the brain' as skeptics say".

Right, so it's only "skeptics" who point out the bleeding obvious?

I think we can safely say it is most certainly all within the brain. That's
what the drug is directly influencing, and as a result your mind goes over the
waterfall and you are forced to just go along with it, or suffer if you put up
resistance.

The problem with long term fans of DMT, cannabis, and all manner of
psychedelics is that you end up writing books about it that mean more to you
than they could anyone else. There's exceptions (Castaneda), but that's
generally how it goes.

The thing is, if you need to take Ayahuasca before your own brain tells you
that your abuse of pot is out of control, then that points to something far
less sophisticated than the exotic make-believe problems of spiritual junkies.
It points to the obvious: that you're lazy. It really is that simple.

Not to undermine the importance of getting back to basics or nature, and
sorting through personal issues, perhaps even under the influence of
psychedelics - that can be a very cleansing experience. But you shouldn't need
to go to Brazil for that and drink sewerage tasting cocktails of God-knows
what and vomit your guts up. That is nothing more than conscientious stupidity
(IMHO).

~~~
dougk16
> I think we can safely say it is most certainly all within the brain.

Occam's razor says you're probably right, but personally I'm holding out the
slim hope that there's something much cooler going on, call it primitive
telepathy or whatever. The next few decades will hopefully tell.

> But you shouldn't need to go to Brazil for that and drink sewerage tasting
> cocktails of God-knows what and vomit your guts up. That is nothing more
> than conscientious stupidity (IMHO).

This is less stupid than popping a pill whose side effects take longer to list
than the rest of its commercial. I mean, just look at this:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venlafaxine#Adverse_effects>. _That's_ stupid,
and it was a good point made in the post.

~~~
endianswap
Fuck that drug. I'm currently on 37.5mg every 4 days in an effort to taper
down to nothing. I feel nothing but sympathy for those who have been taking
150mg+ daily doses, I was only on 75mg a day for a couple weeks before I
thought it prudent to read stories of the drug online, which terrified me and
pointed out some of the same effects I had been having but had assumed was
coincidental. I took cold medicine with DXM in it, for example, and it made me
feel worse than I felt just being sick. I didn't immediately realize DXM is on
the lengthy list of contraindications, and found out that explained a terrible
"trip" I had a week before during the night on a single normal dose of
Vicodin.

One of the remedies I've been using to help with the side effects of kicking
this, interestingly enough, is medicinal cannabis edibles, which has also
helped with a gastroenterological problem I have.

~~~
DigitalJack
You should really talk to a doc about how to come off that. Or maybe you have.

What I've often heard is a good route is a couple of tablets of prozac. The
half life is on the order of weeks, and so you can take these for a few days,
instead of the venlafaxine, or maybe with (whatever your doc says).

Then, after building some up in your system, you can just stop. As you go
through the half life decay, it's a built in taper, and it's slow enough to
limit side effects.

Naturally don't take my word for it, talk to a doc.

I've considered it myself, because if I miss a dose of venlafaxine, I get
terrible vertigo. _really_ bad. But I do suffer from an anxiety disorder and
it definitely has made a difference in my life.

~~~
endianswap
Oh, I have talked to a doctor about coming off of it; it's her plan I'm
executing right now as far as dosage goes, and it's already going better than
most peoples' experiences. I started taking it because of anxiety issues, but
the prescribing doctor didn't warn me about any of this. I've since found
better ways to handle my anxiety problems, and even if I still run into a mild
anxiety episode once in a while I'd rather work through that with my partner
and a counselor than mask it with an SSRI/SNRI.

Thanks for your reply :)

------
redwood
A lot of the descriptions of Ayahuasca are similar to mushrooms (everything
depends on dosage of course!) Truly life-augmenting experiences.

As a 10 year pot smoker I stopped rather randomly about 4 months ago. I didn't
do it for any reason besides respiratory health, and probably wouldn't have
changed if I had a good vaporizer. It's fine not smoking but I drink more and
find my mind moving away from the broad thinking pot encouraged. I'll probably
find a way to balance it in in some way again in the future.

The likes of psychedelics, however, are framing or pivotal events in my life,
generally done in the wilderness. My feelings are similar to Steve Jobs...
they are incredibly powerful experiences and I yearn to share them with those
I'm close with. I imagine I'll be having these experiences throughout my life.

~~~
virtualwhys
Have you tried not smoking AND not drinking? ;-)

Same boat, I smoked a lot of herb growing up (never drawn to drink
particularly), but stopped in my 20s for about 6 years.

No longer clear, smoke every couple of weeks, and trip a couple times a year,
1/4 of shrooms and off into the woods, goodbye world.

foolish pride in you I am broken praise

The love in and beyond all things, is there anyone more blind than myself?

Sorry, got a bit off track there...back to "reality"

~~~
einhverfr
It's funny, I am not the OP but I read this:

> Have you tried not smoking AND not drinking? ;-)

And i noticed that my home remedies for asthma and respiratory stuff all
involve either smoking (legal, non-tobacco) herbal remedies (Verbasculum
thapsis) or binge drinking ;-). Fortunately it's only required a couple times
a year at most. In both cases, I find the duration and severity of respiratory
problems goes way down..... (In comparison to modern pharmaceuticals.)

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clueless123
FWIW, A couple of (semi) recent local news (here in Peru) about the
practice...

[http://america.infobae.com/notas/57978-Peru-joven-
estadounid...](http://america.infobae.com/notas/57978-Peru-joven-
estadounidense-murio-al-tomar-ayahuasca)

[http://peru.com/2011/11/28/actualidad/otras-
noticias/video-m...](http://peru.com/2011/11/28/actualidad/otras-
noticias/video-muere-frances-ceremonia-ayahuaca-noticia-31793)

I am not saying don't do it.. just be careful with what you do.

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NatW
True story: A close friend of mine took Ayahuasca with a shaman and was then
committed to a psychiatric facility in New York for almost a week. She was
badly shaken up by the experience. I guess she didn't have good support, or
she wasn't suited to taking it, but obviously the experience turned out to be
horrific. So be careful with decisions like this...

~~~
gnosis
It is very unfortunate that this happened to your friend.

However, brief anecdotes like this are not incredibly useful without a great
deal of additional information.

* Did your friend or others in her family have a history of mental illness?

* Was she depressed or otherwise suffering from mental illness at the time of the trip?

* Was she on any other drugs (prescribed or not) apart from ayahuasca?

* Had she had much previous experience with psychedelics?

* Did she try to fight the experience or was she able to surrender to it and go with the flow (a very important skill to have, when using psychedelics)?

* Was she in a safe environment, among trusted people during the trip?

* Did she have a concrete, positive intention for the trip? Or was she just taking it for the hell of it?

* How much did she know about what she was getting in to?

* How qualified was the shaman she took the brew with?

Unfortunately, many self-styled shamen don't have the proper training, or
(occasionaly) any training at all. There could be incentive for people to
misrepresent themselves and their credentials, especially when money is
involved.

Yes, one should definitely be very careful, and avoid taking psychedelics when
one or one's family has a history of mental illness, is currently suffering
from mental illness (including plain old depression), or is using any other
psychoactive medication (such as antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc).

You should also seriously check out the credentials of any shaman or guide
you're taking the medicine with, and be sure you are in a safe, supportive
environment during the trip.

Finally, thoroughly educate yourself on the substance and constructive ways of
using it.

~~~
NatW
My friend did NOT have a history of mental illness. I think her dad may have
had a little OCD, but nothing else that was obvious to me. I haven't followed
up with her to ask her these, but this is what I think is true:

She was not on other drugs at all as far as I know.

I don't think she'd ever done psychedelics before.

I don't know too many details of the environment she did it in, but it was
with an apparently-experienced shaman I think recommended by her yoga teacher
friend. It was the yoga teacher who recommended to her that she try it. All
that she knew, she likely heard from this friend who had done it before.

She is a Buddhist, but I don't know what her intentions were.

I don't know anything about the shaman.

I know that it was a medical doctor good friend of hers that committed her to
the psych ward afterwords, so she really needed it.

anyway, hope this helps. be careful!

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josscrowcroft
Each to their own, and Graham's writing style kind of rubs me the wrong way,
but Ayahuasca changed everything for me. Inexpressible gratitude. 'Nuff said.

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gadders
The news that Graham Hancock was a cannabis addict explains a lot, such as his
Orion Correlation Theory [1]

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Orion_Correlatio...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Orion_Correlation_Theory)

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contingencies
For a broader, frequently updated, shorter-form and better categorized
collection of this sort of reading check out
<http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forums/40-Trip-Reports>

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serf
so either I smoke weed..

or my body is a cocoon of truths being ripped apart by 'them'?

Well I know what i'm choosing.

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nacker
Say what you want about the "Green Bitch", she's never killed anyone, unlike
the "White Bitch".

[http://jacquesmattheij.com/this-white-powder-will-kill-me-
on...](http://jacquesmattheij.com/this-white-powder-will-kill-me-one-day)

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LatvjuAvs
One lives his life loving all things and finding place for everything,
connecting everything.

One lives life weeding out things he do not like, burning down bridges,
building new ones, exterminating problems and severing connections, building
new ones when needed.

Sadly, only one of them will accept other.

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p3nt3ll3r
good luck buddy. pass.

