
BitTorrent is to movies what "bolt-cutters are to stealing bicycles" - abraham
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/bittorrent-is-to-movies-what-bolt-cutters-are-to-stealing-bicycles.ars
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iwwr
You can't really fit IP into the same framework as physical property rights.
Whether we think IP is valid, it should be treated as distinct. Be it through
the theory of 'social value' (IP in general) or 'social incentives' (patents)
or the needs of business identification (trademarks).

A physical property right refers to a physical good, whereas an intellectual
property right refers more to behaviors (making a nondestructive copy) and to
classes of goods (eg. storage media).

It's also relatively easy to define a physical good or a physical boundary of
land, but 'original creations' are much less precise. Indeed, nothing is
really created in isolation and oftentimes, the same invention is developed
independently (and near at the same time) by multiple entities.

We should rather call IP an intellectual monopoly privilege, than a right to a
piece of property.

~~~
j_baker
To me, the entire idea of IP is trying to artificially shoehorn the idea of
property ownership onto ideas. Physical property is a zero-sum game. For me to
make $20, someone has to lose $20. Intellectual property without patents
isn't. If I can make something, then other people can as well. But when you
have a patent, it turns into a zero-sum game just like physical property.

~~~
tomjen3
Physical property is only a zero sum game if you steal the money.

To make twenty dollars you have to create and sell something that is worth
more than twenty dollars to the buyer. This is possible because not everyone
values things the same. If you have a bread factory you have enough bread that
you will value it less than me, who would otherwise go hungry.

So yes, you lose a bread and I gain one, but you value the price higher and i
value the bread. Who lose?

~~~
praptak
I believe you are a little overextending GP's statement. Physical property is
a zero sum game only in the context of mass and energy preservation. The price
tag on a pound of flour and yeast may vary, you may transform it into bread,
but you cannot both keep it and sell it.

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RyanMcGreal
"I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American
public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."

\-- Jack Valenti, MPAA president, in testimony to Congress, 1982
<http://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm>

I guess the film industry has gotten a bit less hyperbolic in the intervening
years.

~~~
mryall
Yeah, and even less logical. Which court has ever ruled that we should ban
bolt cutters to prevent bike theft?

~~~
lukeschlather
It's pretty clear from the article that they fully understand that BitTorrent
is a legitimate technology, and that's why they're instead asking for the
right to sue people who link to infringing content.

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pg
BitTorrent is to movies what air is to sound.

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compumike
And while bolt cutters are common items that can be used in plenty of legal
ways, it can be illegal to have bolt cutters in some situations. Ever heard of
"Possession of Burglarious Tools"? (varies from state to state) Intent /
purpose matters greatly in the eyes of the law.

Check out these jury instructions from Massachusetts:
[http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsandjudges/courts/districtco...](http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsandjudges/courts/districtcourt/jury-
instructions/criminal/pdf/8180-possession-of-burglarious-tools.pdf)

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markkat
No, I'd say it's like a very fast and free bicycle copy machine. No one loses
their bike, but it might upset bicycle-makers.

~~~
w1ntermute
On a related note, there was an interesting article in the Economist on the
implications of the anticipated widespread use of 3D printing in the near
future.[0] It will be very interesting to see how the manufacturing industry
responds to this change and the similarities/differences compared to digital
products.

0: <http://www.economist.com/node/18114327?story_id=18114327>

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bigiain
I agree 100%

Bit torrent is a genuinely useful tool, that happens to be useful for both
fully legitimate purposes as well as other uses.

I'd accept some lobby group applying pressure to make bit torrent "illegal"
right after they get majority public agreement that cars should be illegal
(bank robbers use them to make their escape!) and spray paint (graffiti
taggers use it!)

~~~
ericd
I think the person that said that quote is implying that things like bolt
cutters should be made illegal, strangely enough.

He also wants DMCA's safe harbor provisions curtailed.

~~~
cgranade
It kind of amazes me that someone can make a statement like that bolt cutters
analogy and not stop to ponder why bolt cutters are still legal, despite their
utility in stealing bicycles.

~~~
lukeschlather
It actually doesn't sound anything like they're looking to make BitTorrent
illegal.

They want to levy egregious fines against anyone using BitTorrent for
piratical ends, and make ISPs just as liable as their users. They don't need
to outlaw BitTorrent when they can ban people from the Internet at will.

And furthermore they're not stupid. They know that BitTorrent is just a
protocol, and it's presently just as easy to get pirated content over plain
old HTTP as BitTorrent.

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dionidium
A general purpose tool with criminal uses? Well, yeah.

~~~
MichaelGG
Has there been any successful _criminal_ prosecution of BitTorrent users?

~~~
mryall
Or, more to the point, _bolt cutter_ users?

~~~
ImperatorLunae
"An elderly Oklahoma man landed himself in jail after using bolt cutters to
break his prized pooch from the pound."

<http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9027221>

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todayiamme
What should scare them is that they are fighting an exponential. In their
daily lives these people have become accustomed to constants that pretty much
remain the same throughout their lifetimes, but computing by its very nature
is exponential. As people follow Moore's law religiously and the price of
computing drops so does, proportionally, the price of digital distribution.

It's this sudden increase of processing power that allows millions of
computers to run protocols like BitTorrent. That creates the infrastructure to
run them in the first place. Although now they appear to be hardly
computationally expensive, but even 20 years ago in 1991, would this have been
possible?

Their problem is that this exponential nature of computing has vanished the
floor on the price of distribution. Since, they're fighting an exponential
this means that iteration also becomes far more easier. It's just a question
of just a few more processor cycles.

The real world systems they're using to clamp down are fairly constant.
Politicians and the art of law making hasn't really changed over the past 80
years or so. So, by the time it takes them to iterate and be ready for the
next wave. It's successor would have knocked them off their feet.

So, in one corner you have a constant system. In the other you have an
exponential. Who do you think wins?

That aside as Fuller would say, "don't fight forces. Use them."

note: as donaldc points out it really is more of a result of hard drive growth
& bandwidth than pure processing power.

~~~
donaldc
It _is_ exponential, but it's more a result of the exponential growth in hard
drive storage space and internet bandwidth.

~~~
todayiamme
Thank you for correcting me.

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elbrodeur
FTA: "Piracy has all but dismantled our recorded music industry. Any business
plan in the music industry must now take into account that piracy is the rule,
not the exception."

I think that this doesn't seem to be quite true. There is ample evidence to
support the idea that it's current laws and litigation that are stifling
innovation and "business plans". I'm of the opinion that if there is anything
that is promoting or enabling piracy, it's the lack of innovation.

~~~
chadgeidel
I'm not a fan of piracy, but it's hyperbole like this that has to stop. The
recorded music industry seems to be quite vibrant - contrary to the claims of
the MPAA for the past, oh, 10 or so years.

(edit - voicing agreement with the parent)

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cs9
Another wet US dream to force everybody under their rules. Wikileaks
demonstrated the urgent need of an US independent Internet infrastructure,
i.e. DNS, payment.

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jemfinch
Hey, that's a pretty apt description, actually.

I can still go down to my local hardware store and buy bolt cutters.

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tsuyoshi
Setting aside the difference between taking a tangible thing and copying an
intangible thing, BitTorrent is more like a pickup truck than bolt-cutters.
It's useful for transferring large files, like a pickup truck is useful for
carting around large objects.

The funny thing to me is, I would think if they want effective tools for
tracking down who is infringing on their copyrights, BitTorrent is great,
because it's easy to see who is transferring what. Before BitTorrent came
around, everyone was using ftp, irc, nttp, etc. which are harder to track.

Anyway, DVD decryption software would be the bolt-cutters.

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beej71
BitTorrent is to movies what big spoons are to making salad!

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tripzilch
> BitTorrent is to movies what "bolt-cutters are to stealing bicycles"

ummmmmm ... how does this analogy work?

 _Bolt-cutters_ are to _stealing bicycles_ , a tool that facilitates and
simplifies an activity.

So the analogy goes, _BitTorrent_ facilitates and simplifies _movies_.

I think they left out a verb and meant to say " _BitTorrent_ is to _watching
movies_ what bolt-cutters are to stealing bicycles".

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ConceptDog
Book and movie distribution channels have approximately 2 years left to evolve
or die. Music faced the same thing and decided to fight a losing war.

They can be smart and embrace the change before it overwhelms them or be stuck
culturally in traditional distribution and get swept away before recovering as
music has done through iTunes and indy.

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drdaeman
I hope they'd outlaw bolt-cutters, so nobody will steal our precious bicycles.

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bsiemon
Creating and/or controlling things that are scarce is an easy way to make
money. It is interesting too see how technology constantly erodes business
models based on this concept.

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praptak
Bad analogies are like leaky screwdrivers.

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xutopia
BitTorrent is to movies what repeating a friend's joke is to humour.

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rbanffy
So, what else are bolt-cutters useful for?

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mkramlich
And just like bolt cutters, it can be used for many things other than
stealing. Therefore, it is very useful tool and it is now and should in the
future remain legal.

~~~
JonnieCache
Yeah. What are the Authors Guild going to do when all their bolts are the
wrong length?

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barista
The classic mistake of equating bits to atoms!

