
Intel Delays Mass Production of 10nm CPUs to 2019 - cm2187
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12693/intel-delays-mass-production-of-10-nm-cpus-to-2019
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walterbell
90+ comments earlier today:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16938423](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16938423)

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dang
Thanks!

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remarkEon
Can someone who understands the manufacturing and engineering difficulties
here explain things for a layman? Are we starting to bump up against physical
limitations of what’s even possible, or is this something different?

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phkahler
Not sure if Intel has other problems, but there are limits to how small things
can get with a particular wavelength of light. DUV (deep ultraviolet) is at
193nm. They've been able to etch significantly smaller than the wavelength by
using immersion (water has a higher index of refraction) and some fancy tricks
with multiple exposures under different masks (multi-patterning). But all that
had to be done because there were no suitable light sources with shorter
wavelength. EUV (extreme ultraviolet) has a wavelength of only 13.5nm so a lot
of complexity will go away when it comes on line. However EUV still has some
challenges ahead and will probably be deployed slowly. Then, shortly after the
introduction of EUV, there are other physical limits around 5nm. The
lithography end-game is very near.

It's been really amazing to watch this progression for several decades. The
end was declared near a number of times but people always found ways to keep
going, but I truly believe it's almost over this time.

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kibwen
Thanks for the elaboration. Is there also a layman's explanation for the what
makes 13.5nm lasers harder to etch with than 193nm lasers?

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Barjak
There are no lenses which are transparent at 13.5. This means you have to use
mirrors instead, and even that's a challenge. 13.5nm was selected because it
can be reflected by special Molybdenum/Silicon mirrors, but even these mirrors
only reflect about 70% of the light. This means that for every two mirrors you
add to the system, you have to double the brightness of your energy source.

As I understand it, the EUV light is produced by dropping little drops of tin
in front of a laser, which turns it into a plasma that emits 13.5nm light.
However, tin particles scatter everywhere and eventually damage the collector
mirror, so it's hard to make these machines robust.

I also imagine with these high energies and 30% absorption, you have to cool
all the mirrors to keep them from deforming, but I'm no expert.

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craftyguy
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16938423](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16938423)

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simonster
Given that TSMC just started high volume production of 7nm chips
([https://www.anandtech.com/show/12677/tsmc-kicks-off-
volume-p...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/12677/tsmc-kicks-off-volume-
production-of-7nm-chips)), this sounds bad for Intel.

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ploxiln
Not really. Intel 14nm is better than TSMC 10nm. The processes are way way way
more complicated than can be distilled down into a single number. And the
number has become a marketing number. So yeah, Intel 10nm is perhaps somewhat
comparable to TSMC 7nm.

But what is "High volume production" really? This is another marketing term!
Intel has produced and sold a couple 10nm chips, though they are hard to find.
TSMC 7nm chips are not in any consumer's hands yet. We'll have to wait and see
...

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40acres
High volume in this case indicates that the product has reach a high level of
quality in terms of defects per million and yield. 10nm is probably in the
customer sampling phase, HVM means you can go to Best buy and get a 10nm
laptop.

