
Man's Home Lab confiscated for "doing science in a residential area" - smanek
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/08/home_science_under_attack.html
======
bchandle
Read the original article:
[http://www.telegram.com/article/20080809/NEWS/808090323/1008...](http://www.telegram.com/article/20080809/NEWS/808090323/1008/)

Neither source is all that complete, but the original article indicates this
guy was violating zoning law, as well as safe handling and disposal
regulations. I'm a scientist, and I sympathize, but it's unfair to claim "home
science is under attack" from the available evidence.

~~~
smanek
No he wasn't. The government themselves said that everything he had was "no
more dangerous than typical household cleaning products."

The only law he was breaking, according to your own source, was "doing
scientific research and development in a residential area, which is a
violation of zoning laws."

The only thing they had him on was doing science. He wasn't working with
anything remotely dangerous.

~~~
bchandle
It doesn't necessarily matter that he wasn't working with highly dangerous or
toxic chemicals. My roommate works in quality at a medical devices company,
and many of the regulations they deal with have to do with things like proper
labeling, storage, disposal and the like. And their product is chemically
inert.

While I'd hope that chem regulations aren't quite as stringent as pharma or
biomedical, it isn't unfathomable that the guy broke some or many of them.
Unless someone here is knowledgeable of the relevant regulatory environment
(which I'm certainly not), it's unfair to make any accusations based on a blog
post and a terse newspaper story.

~~~
anamax
> It doesn't necessarily matter that he wasn't working with highly dangerous
> or toxic chemicals.

It does if you're arguing safety.

If you're not arguing safety, what is the rational basis for shutting the guy
down? Other than, of course, he didn't have a permit to do safe science.

------
yan
This is just one more example of "The War on the Unexpected", very well
written on by Bruce Schneier.

[http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/11/the_war_on_the...](http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/11/the_war_on_the.html)

~~~
huhtenberg
No, it's not.

If you consider facts from the original article, you might realize that
authorities were in fact 100% right. They discovered that _some_ guy was
running effectively a chemical lab in a residential area. Was he disposing the
waste correctly ? Did he have an exhaust system in place ? Was he complying
with fire safety regulations ? Etc, etc.. Zoning bylaws exist for a reason,
and this is a textbook emergency situation. So they did respond appropriately
- they evacuated the guy and cleaned up the place. Also note how he was _asked
to stay in the hotel_ , not arrested or prosecuted.

Here's the original article for a reference -
[http://www.telegram.com/article/20080809/NEWS/808090323/1008...](http://www.telegram.com/article/20080809/NEWS/808090323/1008/)

~~~
pleasehelp
No. From your article:

> no more dangerous than typical household cleaning products.

Should all household cleaning products be banned for places without industrial
grade ventilation systems too? Zoning bylaws exist because their is not
sufficient proven danger for these regulations to exist as State or Federal
laws.

~~~
huhtenberg
It takes time to understand that these chemicals were in fact no more
dangerous than cleaning products. As I said above, a chem lab in a residential
neighborhood _is_ a major public safety concern as it _may_ end up costing
lives. The only safe way of handling it is to dismantle it first and analyze
its contents second.

~~~
rms
...

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry_set>

~~~
huhtenberg
How is that related to "stored hundreds of chemicals in his house" and "more
than 1,500 vials, jars, cans, bottles and boxes" ? This is hardly a "chemical
set". It sits firmly in "WTF" category, _especially_ if you are charged with
protecting public safety.

Consider the context. An usually large amount of potentially dangerous
chemicals in a residential area _is_ an emergency situation. They responded
accordingly - eliminated potential danger first, analyzed it second.

And before you downmod me again, imagine yourself living next door to this
"chemist" or sharing a graywater supply with him. Then ask yourself if you
still think authorities were wrong in their "overreaction".

~~~
yan
That man is a chemist. I'd personally think a chemist's "chemistry set" would
contain a little bit more than a teenager's. What difference does it make if
it was contained in vials, jars or boxes? What else would you contain
chemicals in? What if you had a rack of rackmounts you picked up on craigslist
serving as a distcc farm, or something else and someone broke into your
basement and accused you of "hacking" or some other absurd charge because they
had no idea what one would do with all that computing or something that
'looked' like it was dangerous.

What seems like "too many" to someone who isn't involved with hobbyist
chemistry (or whatever he's involved with) is completely unimportant. You show
me a law on the books that limits your hobbies and if you find a law that fits
that and is reasonable, I'd agree with you.

If I was an EE hobbyist and built a small tesla coil (which many people do), I
wouldn't want people living next door giving me the looks and trying to shut
me down because it doesn't look kosher to /them/.

They didn't respond to any chemical-related threats, or a chemical fire, nor
did he have a criminal record, so I'd disagree completely with you that
there's any concern for worry.

I love it how people take it upon themselves to decide what is acceptable and
what isn't.

------
nickb
_The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government._ ~ Tacitus,
117CE

------
smanek
I'm curious if writing software at home would violate the no "research and
development" in a residential area rule ...

------
bbgm
This is one reason why science is getting extinct. What happened to garage
science and the DIY chemistry kits? DIY Biology is essentially a non-started
due to regulations. I loved blowing up stuff when I was a kid, and doing silly
experiments at home and that's one reason I got fascinated with science.

The authorities might have been working within the law, but the law itself is
all wrong. There has to be a way to encourage garage science, not make it more
difficult.

I consider myself a "garage scientist" these days. The garage just happens to
be my laptop and a set of virtual servers.

~~~
neilc
_This is one reason why science is getting extinct._

That is a little hard to believe. The rate of scientific progress is, if
anything, continuing to increase. As a society, we are increasingly dependent
on science and technology. Science education has long been a priority of the
educational systems in most first world countries (for better or worse). And
as for "science at home", it is pretty hard to argue that it's under attack, a
single anecdote about someone in Massachusetts notwithstanding.

~~~
bbgm
I agree that extinct is too strong a word. Let's call it "science is having a
tough time" (and that it is). How many kids do you know who'd like to spend
their holidays doing garage science (or adults for that matter)?

~~~
neilc
Overall, I wouldn't agree that "science is having a hard time", either. I
don't think trends in PhD production are consistent with your argument (PhD
production is basically at an all-time high). The Internet and the computer
revolution are also compelling examples of how important science and
technology are: in addition to being a useful tool for science itself, they
have motivated a lot of people to go into scientific/technical careers.

~~~
bbgm
Science is not just about formal degrees. It's about curiosity and interest as
well. I don't see myself having conversations about science at too many bbq's,
at least not in a non-scientific audience. I wonder how many people here know
about the Broad institute or care about the HapMap project. I just get the
sense that science today is either formal or not at all and sheer intellectual
curiosity is missing.

~~~
neilc
Do you really think that the situation was significantly different in the
past?

------
a-priori
" _This is not what we would consider to be a customary home occupation._ "

Right, because that's an entirely valid reason for a search and seizure. The
guy should give the ACLU a call. This case is right up their alley.

------
gills
In other news, startup founder arrested for using his garage in an attempt to
displace an entrenched competitor.

~~~
biohacker42
I'm terrified of how likely it is we'll see that headline for real some day.

~~~
dhimes
with a handle like "biohacker," your phone is probably already making funny
noises...!

------
iigs
Garb for trendy terrorists:

<http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/stand_back_square_0.png>

------
KWD
I think it's important to note that home cleaning products are not innocuous.
Combine the wrong types together and you can have a deadly situation. So their
saying that they were no more dangerous than home cleaning products is not
really saying they are without danger.

------
hugh
Terrible, sensationalist headline.

Was "doing science in a residential area" an actual quote? If not, why is it
in quote marks?

~~~
sysop073
It was in the article linked off this one:

"Pamela A. Wilderman, Marlboro’s code enforcement officer, said Mr. Deeb was
doing scientific research and development in a residential area, which is a
violation of zoning laws."

------
esdi
In our country you cannot do any research without a license! The law does not
specify whether doing math or theoretical physics qualifies as research and
anywayz it doesn't matter because no one is doing any.Hello! we're africans.
Why think when you can run the marathon? And you westerners are bringing the
aid,right? Well,better go and train. See ya!

------
ajkirwin
I'd expect this in a southern state perhaps, but.. Massachusetts? What the
hell?

~~~
rudyfink
Coming from the South, I'd say it really would depend. Making shit in your
garage or shed is practically a God given right in the South. I encountered
more people there who regularly made things than I have in bigger cities. I
think people would feel toying around is certainly all right if done on your
own land and in a way that your screw up will only cost you your own life or
property. That said community tolerance of tinkering is related to cultural
norms. Things that are really "bad" will get people against you (eg better
booze is fine work where better meth is certainly not).

Honestly, I'd guess the article's kind of regulation or enforcement is
probably more correlated with population density than anything else. The more
packed in people get the more concerned everyone is about someone mucking up
the finely tuned dance.

