
Intel says Clover Trail will not work with Linux - mariuz
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2205462/idf-intel-says-clover-trail-will-not-work-with-linux
======
adestefan
Hasn't this been known for about 6 months now? Clover Trail isn't an Intel
part, it's a PowerVR core licensed from Imagination. Intel doesn't have the
rights to release the specs on PowerVR and Imagination has never wanted an
open source implementation, even if Intel writes it.

~~~
mbell
> Clover Trail isn't an Intel part

I think what you mean to say is that the GPU is licensed IP. The design of the
CPU and production of the SoC is being done by Intel.

------
INTPenis
>However Intel said Clover Trail "is a Windows 8 chip" and that "the chip
cannot run Linux".

This will merely be seen as a challenge by the Linux community.

Edit: Also it's not that it won't run, it simply won't be supported. Which
shouldn't be new to any Linux user by now.

------
nicholassmith
Couple of ways to take this:

1) Microsoft has exerted leverage over Intel and got them to go down the
preferred supplier route. Possible, and not overly surprising.

2) Intel is trying to carve a niche out and thinks its best bet is with the
old hound.

3) The boring technical reason that there's loads of implementation and they
can't be bothered making the changes to the Linux packages.

It sounds like it'll run but with none of the fancy features to shut down
cores under low use, but Linux developers have been adding missing
functionality for years so it's not exactly unusual.

~~~
werpon
Option 3 has no basis since Intel doesn't need to write a single line of code
to get their new chip supported under Linux, they just need to release the
specs. Which brings us to:

4) Just like many graphics chips, this processor does some black magic to
boost performance and Intel doesn't want to give any clues to competitors by
releasing specs and/or open drivers.

~~~
rjsw
Intel don't own the design of the GPU, they can't release the specs.

This is a non-story, Atom versions following this one will be able to run
Linux fine.

~~~
jeltz
Interesting, do you know who the owner of the specs is?

~~~
gvb
Likely Imagination Technologies (PowerVR
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR>)

Ref: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29>

See also
[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA1N...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA1NDU)
which talks about Intel's plans to drop PowerVR and go back to an internal
(Intel) design:

 _The future SoC that's expected to introduce the new graphics is "Silvermont"
and expected availability by early 2013. Before the exciting Silvermont there
is expected to be the "Clover Trail" Atoms released this calendar year, but it
doesn't sound like that SoC will bear new graphics capabilities. I hope to
have some more details soon and am very excited to see Intel do away with the
PowerVR graphics and its horrific driver support._

------
pyalot2
It's not that the chip won't run linux. It's that the device it comes shipped
in will be UEFI locked down such as to make it impossible to install
anything...

Until it's jailbroken and you install whatever on it you like.

~~~
xtdx
Why do people keep saying this? The x86 devices are _required_ to allow
loading other OS.

~~~
Spooky23
You are correct for laptops (for now, anyway). For tablet form-factor devices,
UEFI will prevent other OSs from being installed.

------
orangethirty
This will be interesting to watch. There is a whole generation of users that
do not use Windows as their primary OS. The brand power that it once had is
disappearing. Users can now pick between Linux and iOS for most of their
computing needs. The failure of Windows Phone to compete on that market shows
that there is a significant amount of mindshare being lost. My guess is that
MS is trying to lock people into using the OS again, but this time it won't
happen. There are too many options right now. Users are so much more educated
than before. Every kid out there can root their Android and upload a custom
ROM. When they see their smartphone (or pocket PC) being locked down, they
will just get something that doesnt lock them. All of that and Apples
marketing power. MS lacks it.

~~~
spiralpolitik
A better way of putting it is that there is a generation of users that do not
differentiate between hardware and software. They just know devices.

And if you are only supplying one half of the device, you are in most respects
going have trouble sustaining your business in 5-10 years time because the
market for just the OS or just the hardware will be tiny or have tiny margins.

------
m0skit0
Well... I'm not going to buy anything with that stupid chip then. Period.

~~~
egeozcan
I was actually thinking about switching to AMD. Not that it'd make any
difference...

~~~
mintplant
For what it's worth, I'm incredibly satisfied with my AMD FX-6200.

------
tjoff
_Intel's decision to support only Windows 8 on Clover Trail might work for
laptops but seems very risky for tablets, where x86 tablets running Windows 8
look to be priced close to Apple's Ipad and significantly higher than Google's
Nexus 7 and Amazon's Kindle Fire HD._

Uhm, they surely meant the other way around?

Practically no one have ever switched OS on a tablet/phone whereas on a laptop
you'd certainly expect to be able to run linux.

And what's the point of talking about the price? An x86 windows tablet is the
only tablet that is able to run real applications. For those that want that
the price is more than justified. Those that don't want that should probably
buy an arm + windows RT tablet (which is probably more competitive to the
reduced feature set of smartphone-based devices such as android and iOS).

~~~
brudgers
_"on a laptop you'd certainly expect to be able to run linux._ "

The fraction of end users to whom it would occur to consider Linux on their
laptop is tiny. The fraction of consumers who would consider it is even
smaller. The fraction of consumers who would expect their new laptop to
support Linux is negligible. The expectations of the HN community are
atypicle.

~~~
tjoff
And regardless, you can, rightly, expect a laptop to be able to run linux
(albeit you can't expect it to be quirk-free).

You can run linux and other operating systems on many phones and tablets as
well. But the fraction of those that consider that is waay smaller than for a
laptop (and I doubt anyone would expect it from a typical phone/tablet). As
well as the result being barely usable and more of a proof of concept in the
very most of the cases.

~~~
brudgers
One should no more expect to be able to run Linux on their laptop than OSX.

~~~
jlgreco
The concept of _"should"_ is bizarre and irrelevant. The reality of the
situation is that right now, you _can_.

~~~
brudgers
To clarify: Based on current trends regarding hardware, e.g. the "post PC
era", and software, e.g. "walled gardens"; an expectation that in the future
one will be able to run the OS of their choice on common computing devices
with the sanction of the hardware manufacturer increasingly looks less
reasonable.

Yes, it is possible to boot Linux on an iPad. And it is also likely that one
will be able to likewise boot Linux on devices using the new Intel parts.

But this does not make for a reasonable expectation that end users (let alone
general consumers) will have a viable practical alternative to do so in the
future. In general the trends are in the other direction, particularly in
regards to hardware being configured as general computing devices rather than
having systems more firmly embedded.

A few years ago, Napster, made it look as if music would be freely
distributable. A few years before that, there was no advertising on the
internet. Earlier, commercial software was shareable among people who did not
purchase it. At one time computers filled large rooms.

Change happens.

~~~
jlgreco
The trick is that there are two different sorts of "expect".

Suppose a parent finds their teenage kid watching TV instead of studying for
an exam and says, _"I expect you to do well on that exam tomorrow!"_. Do they
expect their child to do well? Yes. Do they _expect_ their child to do well?
No, they would be foolish to.

At the present, both types of "expect" apply to this discussion. Some
companies seem intent on eliminating one of those expectations, but they
cannot do anything about the other.

------
justincormack
I presume this is some sort of deal to keep Android off it, as manufacturers
will want supported chips.

------
joshka
This takes the cake as the best example of trolling linux devs per
<http://bash.org/?152037>

~~~
anonymous
I'm a bit scared that I knew which quote that was before I clicked it.

------
lunixbochs
In other words, the same "Windows 8 Mobile will come with a locked EFI Secure
Boot" we've known about. The OS is signed and verified by the bootloader.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Int...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Secure_boot)

~~~
regularfry
Where do you get that from?

------
brudgers
_"Unix BSD based IOS"_

When I read this, I realized that the author was supporting a preconceived
conclusion. Apple uses ARM, in no small part because they bought a fan not
long ago; and, of course, iOS is not out in the wild to be installed on
hardware from OEM's such as Acer or HP.

~~~
amaranth
"The company was founded as Advanced RISC Machines, ARM, a joint venture
between Acorn Computers, Apple Computer (now Apple Inc.) and VLSI Technology."

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Holdings>

Apple have been involved with ARM since the start, back in 1990.

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jebblue
Minecraft has shown that good games don't need the latest and greatest video
to be fun and popular.

------
csmattryder
>that Clover Trail won't run Linux is not quite true - after all it is an x86
instruction set

Just need implementing, they've not locked Linux out, it's just unlikely
device manufacturers are going to invest the time to implement it.

------
api
An act of God will not help MS in the mobile or tablet market.

------
manaskarekar
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for AMD.

------
radarsat1
Challenge accepted. ;)

------
indiecore
Whelp, that certainly makes knowing which chip to buy a lot easier.

------
goggles99
Where would Intel be without Microsoft today??? They need windows to continue
to succeed. ARM chips are the enemy of Intel, thus IOS and Android/linux are
the enemy of Intel.

~~~
fpgeek
For the left hand, maybe.

Meanwhile, the right hand is busy porting Jelly Bean to their x86/Android
phones: [http://www.zdnet.com/intel-ports-android-jelly-bean-
to-x86-p...](http://www.zdnet.com/intel-ports-android-jelly-bean-
to-x86-phones-but-no-rollout-date-set-7000004200/)

~~~
goggles99
This will never fly... That article you linked says that the Intel based
phones will only run 90% of android apps. Who would choose one of these phones
over an arm based one? It would take a lot of incentive for someone choosing
between them. The cost would have to be significantly cheaper or the phone
significantly better. I see a non-starter here.

------
goggles99
In other news: AMD's Hondo will only support Windows 8 at launch.

[http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2205758/amds-
hondo-...](http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2205758/amds-hondo-will-
only-support-windows-8-at-
launch?utm_source=Outbrain&utm_medium=Cpc&utm_campaign=Inquirer%252BReferral&WT.mc_is=977=obinsource)

