
Ask HN: What ergonomic solutions are you using? - lifeformed
I&#x27;m at the point in my career where I am starting to feel ergonomic pain from keyboard use - my left forearm has this weird tingly sensation.  There&#x27;s an overwhelming amount of products and information out there about ergonomics, and I&#x27;m not sure where to start.  What do you do or use to prevent or treat pain related to computer use?
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raindropm
For me personally, it's about change what to focus. I used to feel ache and
pain on the shoulder and wrist. I've tried a lot of kind of keyboard, mouse,
mousepad, wristpad, etc. Still not really helpful.

One day I suspect that those pain are result of my overall bad health(from
sitting in front of screen for years and years) and have little to no exercise
at all and not just single cause, and decide that I had enough and start
training everyday in the morning — getting stronger, fitter, lift weight, loss
weight, eat better, drink more water, more sleep. less stress — all kind of
things I never to before in my life. I'm the worst person when comes to
exercise, but feel I have to change my habit, or else I'll deep in this life
of pain forever.

I found that's work for me! I don't feel pain anymore, I feel much fitter and
healthier overall. Better than any ergonomics keyboard or mouse out there.

Anyway, good tools is still better than bad tools I guess.

For keyboard, I used to use tenkeyless Logitech gaming keyboard. Good
keyboard, but I found that it is too big for my hand and have to stretch my
pinky finger to reach the modifier keys all the time, which made my hand sore
after just a few hours. I then switch to another quality keyboard: the Apple
Magic keyboard and really happy about it since it have a lot less key travel.
Really good keyboard except the weird directional key layout that need to get
used to.

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laurieg
Frequent breaks and regular exercise.

I realise this isn't really 'ergonomics' but they help so much I have to
recommend them. The body is not designed to sit for hours on end.

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madmod
As someone who first had carpal tunnel symptoms at the age of eight I have
spent a fair amount of time on this problem.

Check the temperature of your working environment. Cold joints can be the
cause of or exacerbate various issues. Wearing gloves may help if you can’t
control the climate. A personal heater can be another good option, but make
sure the heat is indirect (pointed at a wall for example) to avoid other
issues from prolonged exposure.

I use a keyboard arm with negative incline positioned at a height so that my
elbows are at 90° and my wrists point slightly downward. (Height of the keys
relative to the wrist rest should be as close to equal as possible.) This is
the opposite of what most people do with the terrible kickstands that come
with keyboards. I find that the more negative incline I can get the better. My
current setup allows for 20-30° Of downward wrist incline. A typical keyboard
tray or palm rest will not do this, as the height from the desktop must be
adjustable and it must hold the keyboard in place. Mine grips the keyboard to
hold it in place.

I personally find that a trackpad is good at preventing some rsi because you
can use it in a variety of positions and it forces you to stretch all of your
fingers when it is below the keyboard. For my keyboard arm I designed and 3d
printed a mount for an apple magic trackpd that holds it below the keyboard
making it much like a laptop. This had the added benefit of keeping my fingers
on home row which is more efficient.

Remapping modifiers on the keyboard is extremely helpful for reducing strain
on some fingers. Things like spacemacs or ergodox which use thumbs are great.
Vim keybindings help a lot too and I have almost everything vimified.

Having a large (40”+ for 4k) monitor prevents you from leaning in to read
small text or “hunching over” the keyboard. (poor elbow and back alignment)
The same can be done by using a larger font or lower resolution at the cost of
more keystrokes for navigating long files or between apps.

Taking breaks and changing positions frequently helps of corse. (Use a sit
stand desk, try kneeling on a soft mat occasionally if your desk goes low
enough.)

Drink a lot of water. Hydration helps almost any bodily issue to some extent
and I find that my productivity is significantly impacted by dehydration and
greatly increased when I drink a lot. Soda is fine but offset the dehydration
from it with extra water. This has the added benefit of forcing you to take
breaks.

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snazz
Something that has made my wrists a little more comfortable during long typing
sessions is putting down the little feet on the back of my keyboard. Even
though this "feature" was designed to improve ergonomics, and many people I
know use it, it can make your wrists uncomfortable and is not usually smart to
use.

~~~
_hn_user_
Afaik these feet were designed to help people with less typing skill to easier
read the keys. For ergonomics the keyboard should actually be tilted backwards
to reduce strain on the wrists.

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nf05papsjfVbc
\- Kinesis Advantage USB keyboard. (The only ergonomic layout keyboard with
mechanical switches when I bought it).

\- A trackball that is 'semi-vertical' in orientation. I use logitech's M570.
I am considering switching to a fully vertical orientation trackball or a
vertical mouse.

\- A significant help was having an ergonomic specialist visit my desk at work
and help me understand how to sit correctly, how to adjust the chair
correctly, at what height the monitor ought to be set up etc. Most of my pains
went away after this.

\- Another factor to bear in mind is that no amount of 'conscious effort' will
help maintain posture as much as a few minutes of exercises done regularly.
When I do some basic compound movements even with light-weights, my posture
naturally gets better without me even having to think about it.

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troydavis
A Kinesis Freestyle keyboard, which is split but otherwise a standard layout.
Mine is angled/tented so both halves are higher in the middle.

An Evoluent VerticalMouse.

Between the 2 products, my wrists, forearms, and elbows stay in totally
natural positions. My wrists don’t need to bend at all to type or mouse.

~~~
wishinghand
I do this setup too. I put the vertical mouse in the middle of the keyboard
halves. The keyboard helps alleviate most of my wrist pain and the mouse
pretty removed my elbow pain. I only get flare ups if I sit poorly or use just
my laptop keyboard for long periods (like if I travel or house sit for
someone).

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pasbesoin
I lowered my desks so that I am sitting with my thighs horizontal (feet flat
on the floor) and my forearms horizontal.

I refuse to use keyboards that have palmrests that reach far enough to
negatively impact my wrists. I also greatly prefer palm rests that have a
rounded front edge.

At the same time, when using a traditional computer keyboard (not a laptop), I
have a palmrest that lines up with the heels of my palms.

I switched to lower profile keys that have accurate and comfortable
registration.

Back when I was in cubeland, I deliberately got up and moved around every half
hour or so, unless I managed to gain intent focus (not so easy, in cubeland).

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kelt
I experienced pain on my wrists after prolonged hours with MacBook Pro(2017),
no tingly sensation.

I have since switch to the Logitech MX Ergo trackball mouse along with a
mechanical keyboard (silent reds and topre works well for me)

------
weitzj
\- 1 large 34 inch screen (height adjustable)

\- good chair for back strength (takes some time to sit on this a whole day):
Löffler Rodeo, [https://www.pape-rohde.de/produkt/872/loeffler-
sedlo-1-m-sit...](https://www.pape-rohde.de/produkt/872/loeffler-
sedlo-1-m-sitzhocker-
rodeo?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItr7ivuqU3wIVxOF3Ch0hqACQEAQYAiABEgK4APD_BwE)

\- Trackball mouse: Logitech M570 (makes work even faster and you are more
accurate)

\- Kinesis Advantage 2 Keyboard + wristpads

Best start for me was the chair + getting away from bad isolated window

------
chudi
A scarf that I use to support my forearms. My doctor said that I was pressing
to hard on the table with my forearms and pressed on the cubital nerve and
that gave me the tingling sensation you describe.

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chrisdembia
I highly recommend that you see a physical therapist. That's when my situation
started improving.

An ergonomist recommended this mouse to me and it's been really good for me
(better than the Logitech MX Master I had been using):
[https://handshoemouse.com](https://handshoemouse.com).

Also, setting my desk height properly helped, I think. It's hard to find desks
that are low enough but I bought an Ikea adjustable height desk that goes low
enough so that my elbow is level with my hands when typing.

~~~
jrrrr
How's your precision with that thing?

From the photo it looks like I'd be mousing with arm muscles instead of
finger/wrist.

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lrpublic
I’ve found ergorest forearm supports work, along with a keyboard without a
number pad to reduce mouse reach.

I’ve swapped between various split keyboards over the years, starting with the
beta version of the Microsoft Natural keyboard - sadly most of these have a
number pad and that creates a mouse reach issue for some. These days I use a
ten key less gaming keyboard.

Also small free weights to exercise arms frequently during the day at the desk
seem to help.

------
thegabez
Look into stretching exercises. This video saved me from debilitating hand and
wrist pain. I'm sure there are similar exercises you can perform for forearm,
elbow, shoulder, etc..

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUyMNyrOHJQ&list=FLm2_1OPWIx...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUyMNyrOHJQ&list=FLm2_1OPWIx9ViNjUdjM7b7w&index=2)

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sn41
I am thinking of buying a vertical mouse due to mild pain in my right wrist.
But I have found that using the mouse with your weaker arm (left, in my case)
for 2-3 days alleviates the pain for a while.

Of course, when I am travelling, I use my MacBook Pro 2017, and it just simply
sucks when it comes to ergonomics.

------
shoo
Cheap microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 (hands tilt down rather than
up when typing).

i should probably sort out some kind of standing / kneeling desk, been
ignoring ergonomic desk setup after changing job a few months ago.

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honkycat
Used to have very bad hand pain.

Tools to fix it:

Fully standing desk

Kinesis Freestyle Edge split keyboard

Logitech trackball mouse

Weight Lifting Gym membership

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magic-chicken
I use a keyboard with no numpad, it is less wide than a standard keyboard and
allows my arms to stay parralel to my body. I also use a vertical mouse with a
trackball to help with wrist pain.

~~~
wilsonnb3
I do this as well, specifically an 84 key keyboard. It still has home, page
up, page down, and arrow keys but it’s less wide than a typical tenkeyless.

~~~
mclehman
Just to add a (far?) more extreme take on this:

I use a 48 key keyboard (an OLKB Planck) which massively cuts down on hand
travel and typing strain. Arrow and navigation keys, a numpad, all the
function keys, every symbol I use whem programming, and various OS controls
(volume, media controls, screen brightness, etc.) are all easily reachable
without changing the position of my hands. I also chose to program all the
modifier keys to work both as normal when held down and in a similar fashion
to sticky keys when just tapped. For example, holding down shift and typing a
letter works as normal, but hitting shift followed by a letter accomplishes
the same result, meaning that capital letters and punctuation don't really
interrupt the flow of typing or require chording.

I also have rather resistive keyswitches (nominally 185g, ~170g in actuality)
which was of ergonomic benefit to me. I wouldn't expect it to help most
people, but it helped me learn to type without bottoming out the switches.
Starting out, the heavier springs caught me before reaching the bottom. Now I
type in a much gentler fashion, even if peak force is greater than on a
standard keyboard.

Moving down to 48 keys can seem intimidating, but I adjusted rather quickly.
It only took me about a couple weeks to become comfortable with the layout
changes (staggered keys to a grid layout and Workman instead of QWERTY). I
believe that part of the reason it was such an easy transition was because I
changed the layout whenever I had trouble adjusting to it. I had wanted to
place the underscore on the same key as F in a QWERTY layout to make typing
snake_case identifiers easier, but kept hitting the adjacent equals key
instead. I could have pushed through it, but I embraced what my brain clearly
felt was right whenever a similar thing happened and picked up the layout much
quicker than I expected.

Another common concern is losing competence with a normal keyboard or standard
layout, but at least in my case that hasn't been an issue. I can switch back
and forth between a 2013 Macbook QWERTY keyboard and my customized one with no
issues, and I often switch from QWERTY to Workman on my laptop depending on
how much I'm writing. Occasionally I'll switch layouts mid-sentence when I
realize I'll be going into more depth than I expected.

------
Waterluvian
I added two atlases under my monitor which seemed to solve all my problems.
Obviously there's a ton of variables, I'm just sharing that sometimes it
doesn't take much to fix.

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cweagans
Sit/stand desk, Ergodox (I have a loud clicky one with backlit keys for home
use and a quiet one with no lights for travel), and an Aeron + a 3rd party
headrest.

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jrrrr
Get a split keyboard! It feels so loose and natural after you get used to it.
Downside: going back to a normal keyboard (or a laptop) feels bad.

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Nomentatus
Monitor suspended directly above bed on a framework. (Eyes pointed nearly
straight up, therefore.) Elbows resting on bed.

~~~
apaz037
Do you do this out of medical necessity or is it simply what you've found to
be most ergonomic?

I find this configuration very interesting. Had not heard of this before, but
would be very interested in trying it out.

~~~
Nomentatus
Neck problems made it inevitable, after a traffic accident several years ago.
I'm okay walking, pretty much, but not sitting.

~~~
Nomentatus
However, it's been great for my shoulders, arms and hands as well. Having your
upper arms pinned, comfortably by gravity and still helps a lot.

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Antoninus
A posture brace, my posture is pretty terrible at 33 and lifetime of being on
a computer.

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drakonka
I am using a kneeling chair and a trackball instead of a traditional mouse.

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rayj
-MS Ergo 4000 for the last 5 years -Ergo monitor stand -Anker vertical mouse

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zzo38computer
Rest sometimes. That's all.

