
Chinese Devs Using GitHub to Protest 996 Workweek (9am – 9pm, 6 days/week) - computerlab
https://996.icu/#/en_US
======
discordance
I collaborated on a project with developers at QQ a few years back and here
are a couple of anecdotes:

1\. A 32 year old (!) developer I was working with one-on-one from QQ had a
heart attack two weeks before, but was pressured (while in hospital) to come
back to work as soon as possible. 2\. At the QQ office, I watched an entire
group (50+ developers) have a nap heads down at their desk after lunch.

If any developers from China are listening in. Leave your company, take your
colleagues and start one with better conditions. You are some of best
engineers I've worked with and deserve better.

~~~
uranusjr
That heart attack incident is terrible. The nap part, however, is not
particularly concerning. Nap after lunch is encouraged in the Chinese culture,
and schools have a dedicated “noon nap” slot. Your Chinese coworkers likely
nap not because they are so tired they have to, but because they and everyone
else have done it their whole lives (and why not, napping feels good).

~~~
geezerjay
> Your Chinese coworkers likely nap not because they are so tired they have
> to, but because they and everyone else have done it their whole lives (and
> why not, napping feels good).

...unless institutionalized scheduled napping was established to extact just a
tad more of energy from overworked servants.

Just saying.

~~~
freetiger18
It could be a custom. However, as a Chinese, my feeling is that the custom
arises from the de facto 69x (x could be 5, 6 or 7) schedule of Chinese high
schools, which is even harsher than that of Chinese companies.

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ceohockey60
This self advocacy is encouraging and long overdue IMO.

The Chinese colloquial term for developer is "码农". Its literal English
translation is "code peasants" \-- not the most flattering or respectful way
to call software engineers.

I've recently heard horror stories, where 9-9-6 is no longer enough inside one
of the Chinese tech giants, and 10-10-7 is expected (10am-10pm, 7 days/week)

I hope this brings about some positive change and won't just get blocked by
the authority.

~~~
Arcantium
Why not just 9-9-7? Was there any reasoning behind starting and finishing at
10? Its still a 12 hour day.

~~~
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
Maybe just a playful way of making a more clear distinction between the two

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dougmwne
Funny. I just read about 996 in a comment on another HN post today. I couldn't
believe that schedule could actually exist in Chinese workplace culture so I
started doing some research. Sure enough, this hellish schedule is actually
quite common and official at major Chinese startups and tech companies. It
seems like it's not as common at western companies operating in China. There's
even a joke about 007: 0AM-0AM, 7 days a week.

Of course this flies in the face of my own experience that for the majority of
people, productivity tops out at 40 hours per week unless it's for very short
periods of crunch time. It's odd to see people so burnt out they've lost the
self awareness to see that they've stopped adding value with their perpetual
motion.

~~~
594kJ
Another funny part is that there are actually a portion of coders who not only
agree on but also advocate such 996 culture. One of my roommate is an example
who believes it's beneficial to the young workers (for seemingly high salary
of course). He's heading to Huawei after graduation.

Bonus part: he doesn't like tech/CS per se. Choosing this profession is purely
out of the interest of $$$

------
cjhanks
Are you a talented dev in China tired of 996? American and EU companies are
looking for you.

~~~
contingencies
欢迎大家来珠海跟我们工作! Come work with us in Zhuhai!

~~~
AresStreamer
Do you work in 955?

~~~
contingencies
Most people are 955 with occasional overtime, I work more like 666...

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chillacy
Here's the actual protesting:
[https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU/issues](https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU/issues)

~~~
minimaxir
Notably, the repo has set records in terms of GitHub Stars in a day:
[https://github.com/trending](https://github.com/trending)

Likely because of the Star button the webpage proper.

~~~
smudgymcscmudge
What’s the old record?

~~~
earenndil
I believe it was freecodecamp (or something like that), because they had a
github tutorial that told people to make an account and star their repo.

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whoisjuan
I always had a question about hiring Chinese engineers remotely. Is it easy to
handle salary payments to China and will the Chinese Firewall interfere with
any web development activity they have to do? Is anyone here doing it?

~~~
smudgymcscmudge
Looking for some 996ers of your own? This might not be the best time and to
place to ask about that.

~~~
whoisjuan
Absolutely not. Quite the contrary. If they are unhappy with this conditions
(and they rightfully are), it seems like an opportunity to hire them and give
them reasonable work hours.

I have met several Chinese programmers through out the years and was always
impressed with their skills and work ethics.

~~~
smudgymcscmudge
I’m sorry to question your motives. Somehow I horribly misread the tone of
your comment the first time around.

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07d046
An interesting aspect of this is that this is an online protest on a platform
that the Chinese government doesn't control. They normally exercise strict
control over their internet to prevent movements from getting out of their
control (for example, censoring #metoo when it starts trending). Would the
Chinese government be willing to block GitHub? Surely that would be damaging
to China's tech industry.

What if people started creating repositories with nothing but information
about topics that the Chinese government considers sensitive (like the
Tiananmen Square massacre or other human rights abuses)?

~~~
pcr0
> online protest on a platform that the Chinese government doesn't control

False (for Chinese residents). China used to block GitHub but stopped doing
that when they realized they could politely ask GitHub to block access to
certain pages from Chinese IPs. [0]

[0]: [https://qz.com/718465/chinas-fierce-censors-try-a-new-
tactic...](https://qz.com/718465/chinas-fierce-censors-try-a-new-tactic-with-
github-asking-nicely/)

~~~
smudgymcscmudge
That appears to be the first and last time they received a request from China.
[https://github.com/github/gov-takedowns](https://github.com/github/gov-
takedowns)

On the other hand, Russia...

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Aeolun
I remember reading on HN before that this ‘draconian’ schedule included both a
2 hour lunch and a 2 hour nap after said lunch.

While it would still be crazy, it wouldn’t be quite as crazy as it seems any
more.

~~~
dikei
Normally, the 2 hour is for both lunch + nap, not 2 + 2 hour.

------
geyang
It is taking longer and longer to get a work visa to the US if you work in ML
or quantum computing. US don't want us.

~~~
sodosopa
The US people and companies do. We just have incompetent leadership in our
government, we're waiting it out too.

------
rememberlenny
This kind of expression helps humanize the otherwise distance created between
the Chinese development world and the otherwise Western portrayal.

A few thoughts from my experience living in China. When living in China, I
didn't see any appeal in the overworking culture.

Most developers with families worked normal hours. People who were single made
time to spend time with friends. I didn't see the overwork ethic it in a
positive light at all. Keeping in mind normal developers salaries in tier 1
cities for China is sub-1k USD a month. In tier 2 cities, I can only imagine
it gets exponentially lower and so forth for smaller cities.

~~~
gaotongfei
I work in Shanghai, my first full-time job as a Rails developer was more than
2k dollars a month(I was just graduated with only a little development
experience), and I think that's about the average in Shanghai.

~~~
rememberlenny
Good to know. My experience there was approximately 8 years ago. Im curious
how much base salary has increased.

------
shanghaikid
That's why china is developing so fast than most countries.

~~~
brianpgordon
If this is the cost, let them have it. It's not worth that human cost just to
be ahead.

~~~
dionian
it doesnt work though, it's counter-productive to some extent

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teknologist
It's often not a conscious decision to adopt a "996" schedule but just happens
anyway in Chinese tech firms.

I remember visiting the Alibaba campus some time ago and they had devs
sleeping in tents in the office at 8pm on a weekend. Their boss proudly told
me that he was making them all stay to have them finish a feature he wanted
shipped the following week.

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aztack
After a week of 10a-11p and 2 weeks of 10a-10p x 6, I feel terrible. My son
asked me when I leave home: "Are you going to work to earn money so you can by
me more toys?" "yah!" 996 is not optional, but mandatory, and is written on
the contract.

------
titicaca123
I wish there will be more people know this outside China. It is against the
law yet the government kept a close eye on it. It is not just in IT industry,
there are a lot jobs where people are forced to work more than 9 hours a day.

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jasonhansel
So...will the censors risk blocking all of GitHub for this?

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vfulco2
So will we see github banned very soon?

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MC93
they collected more than 100000 stars in github within 50 hours!!

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taobility
so GFW and censorship is not working as the media said.

~~~
swuecho
it works. but IT worker are more likely to have the knowledge to use VPN.

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recolic
Hi may be someone can work as "007": working from 0:00 to 0:00, 7 days/week.

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ghostyusheng
still fuck more working time and no repaid.

