
Drinking at work: the boredom of boozeless business - JumpCrisscross
http://www.economist.com/node/21560265
======
rickmb
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with alcohol specifically.

As a European, I've always gotten the feeling that corporate America has been
trying to ban almost any kind of potentially disruptive but generally
perfectly normal social activity from the workplace. Take for example how
uptight many American companies seem to be about people forming intimate
relationships in the workplace.

Maybe this has more to do with American fear of legal liability. Whatever the
case, the strict separation of social and professional settings seems to go
well beyond just booze.

~~~
elliottcarlson
At a previous company there was an office-romance happening between a manager
and one of their employees. While everything seemed fine, once they broke up,
all hell broke loose. The employee threatened to sue the company claiming that
the manager had forced him in to a relationship to keep his job. It's
ridiculous, but a sad fact of life that you have people who will react that
way - so this is why a lot of companies will have policies where dating is
prohibited or you must divulge your relationship to HR. This isn't enforceable
but is more to prevent legal liability if something like the story above were
to happen.

~~~
yason
So the office romance per se wasn't the problem but the system that allowed
concretely bad things to emanate from it. If the courts take such lawsuits
seriously, then that allows people to _shift responsibility away from_
themselves and that's generally when bad things start happening.

In another culture the two would've just broken up, caused a stir in the
office, and in the worst case one of them might have left the company if they
wouldn't have been able to recover and speak to each other again.

~~~
herval
What if the claims were real? Employee coersion and sexual harassment DO
exist, you know...

------
bobsy
I drink on the job from time to time. The programming I am required to do is
rarely challenging, its maintaining and expanding a system I know inside and
out.

Sometimes it reaches lunch time, I have some dull task to finish, motivation
is leaving the body. The cure. A whisky. Definitely not to get to drunk, just
to get the juices flowing.

I find my productivity greatly improves when I get a small buzz. I find the
quality of my work stay's the same as I never drink enough to truly impair
judgement. It would be win / win but I feel the negative connotations of
drinking of the job means this isn't really something I should be talking
about.

~~~
sausagefeet
I have always worked places with strict alcohol rules (my current place
doesn't even allow having drinks in the office during a social event after
work), so I don't now about during the day, but I have found sipping some
whisky while working on personal projects to always be very motivating,
enjoyable, and the code generally doesn't turnout any worse.

~~~
gadders
The bonuses of occasionally working from home.

There is nothing like a glass of wine to make a two hour conference call more
bearable.

------
mike-cardwell
At a previous programming job I had, we used to regularly have a beer at lunch
(in the UK) and it didn't feel like it affected my productivity at the time.
This was in my early 20's. I'm now in my early 30's and I find that a beer at
lunch just makes me feel tired in the afternoon, so I avoid it.

The point is, it probably affects people in completely different ways
depending on physiology, age and health.

~~~
maxer
if your in london, going back to work after a pub lunch of 3 or 4 pints seems
to be the norm

~~~
gadders
It used to be in my industry (banking), but in the last few years nobody seems
to drink at lunchtime any more.

15 years ago Friday afternoons used to be pretty much a write-off in terms of
getting anything done. We had one project sponsor that would agree to
something, then go down the pub, get lashed, and reverse his previous
decisions. That was... fun.

I also knew one guy that used to get wasted at lunchtime, and then lay down in
the data centre to sleep it off. Different times.

------
w1ntermute
> Another recent paper from the journal Consciousness and Cognition by
> psychologists at the University of Illinois confirms what many have long
> suspected: a couple of drinks makes workers more creative.

Wow, never thought I'd see scientific evidence for the Ballmer peak.

------
tsahyt
Reminds me of the Ballmer Peak: <http://xkcd.com/323/>

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elliottcarlson
Yet more and more start-ups (and not so start-ups) have kegerators in their
office. We have one at Lot18 (we're hiring!) and some other companies that I
am aware of include Yelp, Google, Name.com, BirchBox, MapQuest, Yammer - and I
am sure there are plenty more out there.

Alcohol is often seen as a social thing to do - and with companies trying to
get a more solid culture going, alcohol seems to tie in well to aide in
creating the social ambiance. Obviously there should still be limits on when
you should be drinking, and how you conduct your self - but that should be
considered in any social setting.

Here is a related article regarding drinking on the job and tech companies:
[http://www.brewcitybeerbuffs.com/2012/05/20/drinking-on-
the-...](http://www.brewcitybeerbuffs.com/2012/05/20/drinking-on-the-job-
would-you/)

~~~
keithpeter
Could this feature of technology companies be related to younger median age ->
less commute radius or commute by bicycle/public transport?

Bankers and corporate types seem to be concentrated in compounds miles from
anywhere, so drink/drive limits (preferably zero) come into play.

~~~
elliottcarlson
That's a fair question, and while tech companies are surely employing younger
people in general, I don't think that is purely the motivating factor. I think
people are trying to get away from the previously stuffy office environments -
trying to make everyone genuinely enjoy their work and co-workers even during
off hours.

As far as commute goes - this could certainly be true for NYC which is where I
am as I don't think a single person drives in to the office unless it is a
special occasion - though I am not sure how much of a factor it might be for
other localities.

------
trafficlight
At one of my previous jobs, our office was right across the street from a
fantastic microbrewery. I'd loved going over in the afternoon with my
coworkers for a couple of pints.

My current office is right across the street from a different microbrewery. I
can't get anybody in my office to go over with me.

~~~
signalsignal
According to the article they would look down on you if you went, so maybe
they think of not going as a favor. Or maybe they are worried about how you
might see them if they drank.

------
Scorponok
"Another recent paper from the journal Consciousness and Cognition by
psychologists at the University of Illinois confirms what many have long
suspected: a couple of drinks makes workers more creative."

That's definitely what we need more of, investment bankers being "creative".

~~~
duaneb
As long as they aren't being creative with their clients money and no consent,
go right ahead.

------
iuguy
I've tried various experiments and have found that a beer around 3pm often
leads to the best productivity gains for technical work. More than a beer and
the productivity starts to tail off, but it's much the same for me as with
coffee.

I don't drink so much beer these days, but an Aperol or Campari and Soda
around 4pm seems to be quite a nice and not very alcoholic way to round off
the work day now and again.

In the UK, sales lunches tend to be fairly boozy affairs - this is an
exception to the 1 pint rule, although I generally wouldn't go past a third
pint of beer on a sales lunch unless we'd agreed we'd take the afternoon off
for some time out.

~~~
epo
In my youth I had a reasonable capacity in the evenings but not at lunchtime:
half a pint would be noticeably incapacitating, a pint would send me to sleep.

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mikk0j
If we'd treat alcohol medically equivalently with other similar substances, a
suitable recommended dose would be about a teaspoon of wine per day (digging
up reference). So no need to keep the workplace boozeless.

~~~
epo
First time I've heard of alcohol having benefits in near-homeopathic doses. I
am strongly sceptical.

~~~
Gmo
There are studies showing one glass of (red I believe) wine per day is
beneficial (e.g.
[http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/15321801/Moderate_...](http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/15321801/Moderate_wine_drinkers_have_lower_hypertension-
related_mortality_a_prospective_cohort_study_in_French_men) )

------
cafard
My attitude toward alcohol consumption during working hours soured a bit
roughly 20 years ago, when a computer operator went back to work after
drinking a lot, and put a server out of action for several days.

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pixpox30
Now the Economist is normally great, but this line

"This may help to explain the success of Silicon Valley, one of the last
workplaces in America where hard and soft drinks still jostle for space in the
company fridge."

Is a little stupid.

------
nnq
...at least the movie industry helps you Americans a bit: remember
Zuckerberg's character coding Facebook's ancestor fueled by a couple beers in
The Social Network?

~~~
n_coats
haha came to my mind as well.

------
sjm
My workplace is actually right above a microbrewery. We have beer o'clock
every Friday at around 3:30pm :) We're in Australia FWIW.

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donniezazen
A little tipsy does help in creativity.

~~~
epo
No it doesn't, not for the overwhelming majority of people. It helps in the
illusion of creativity, most commonly the effect is dulled critical faculties
and the acceptance of sub-par work which has to be redone when more clear
headed.

Alcohol is a recreational drug, its association with industries such as
journalism has to do with working wierd hours and drugging contacts to get
leads, not with productivity, and certainly not with creativity.

------
wilfra
"In one experiment, they found that job candidates who ordered a glass of wine
during an interview over dinner were viewed as less intelligent than those who
ordered a soft drink."

People that order wine instead of a soft drink at a job interview probably
_are_ less intelligent. Not because they like wine but because that's just not
a very intelligent thing to do at a job interview in the USA in 2012.

A SV note: Asana has a stocked bar in their office and IIRC encourages people
to drink while working.

~~~
sausagefeet
This seems circular to me.

Observation: The culture has changed to the point where people think you are
dumber if order a wine during an interview.

You: You are dumber!!!!!

~~~
Patient0
It is _circular_ but still correct!

There are many situations where there are feedback loops like this: For
example: Male peacocks grow large tails because this is attractive to peahen
mates. It's attractive to peahen mates because their male offspring are also
likely to have big tails, which will lead to better reproductive success
because they are attractive to peahen mates.... and so on. So a gene that
favours big tails will make more copies of itself in the peacock population
than some allele that favours smaller tails, even though from a "design" point
of view the smaller tail makes more sense (not as heavy to carry around, means
you can run fast to avoid getting eaten etc.)

There are many equilibria like this:

\- the bank is going to go bust because everyone wants to take their money out
because it looks like the bank is going to go bust...

\- the credit card company declines your application because you were declined
from getting a credit card by another credit card company.

\- The company doesn't take you in for interview because you've been out of
work for 6 months. They'd rather go after someone that already has a job.

In all of these cases, although the outcome is often not optimal (e.g. nobody
wants the bank to go bust), and often not fair, the individuals making the
decisions are behaving perfectly rationally.

~~~
Dylan16807
The criteria there is "better mate". Wilfra could have said "better candidate"
and been correct in that way, but they didn't. They said "less intelligent"
which seems like a complete non-sequitur to me.

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franzus
At our company we have beer and whisky stocked. "Project Friday" is a fun day.

We're in Germany and this is not usual here :)

