
Shenzhen: The Silicon Valley of Hardware [video] (2016) - bmuppireddy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY&t=1s
======
rubber_duck
I don't know much about HW development but recently I wanted to play around
with making a smart quadcopter to play with ML - so I'm looking in to what
would be required on the hardware side.

Devboards I see online with a high powered ARM board are in 150-200$ range for
the devboard without camera/sensors and with stuff I don't need (network
ports, display ports, etc).

Then I look at my 150$ Chinese smartphone (Xaomi RedMi Note 3 Pro) - it has
Snapdragon 652 - Quad Core 64 bit CPU, OpenCL 2 capable GPU, 3GB ram, 16 GB
storage, 13MP and 5MP cameras attached, gyro on board and 4G/WiFi/GPS, 4kMAh
battery. The specs alone are better then the best devboard I found.

So I'm thinking if I can get it to boot without screen I could throw away the
case and the screen, hook up GPIO trough USB for 10$ and get a better dev
board than I would for 200$ with all the sensors and IO and a battery on top ?

I wonder how much it would cost me if I could just buy the parts on these
markets and not have to disassemble a complete phone.

~~~
alanwells
Check out the neo platform that comma.ai is building for self driving
vehicles. It is meant for cars not drones but it might be a good starting
point for you:
[https://github.com/commaai/neo](https://github.com/commaai/neo)

~~~
rubber_duck
This is really cool and looks like it will have many resources for me thanks !

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elastic_church
Nobody is going to call out the title? The fact that silicon valley is called
SILICON VALLEY literally because of the hardware that was manufactured there,
made of silicon?

Oy vey

~~~
Isamu
I came here to say exactly that.

There is still plenty of hardware work being done in sv, but maybe the
manufacture is in China.

~~~
cr0sh
The "bad" part is that the raw materials for innovation aren't as easily
source-able here in the States.

While it can still be found to an extent, the abundance of surplus electronics
is nowhere near what it used to be; things started to go downhill fast after
about the mid-1990s - but it really started much earlier.

Today, you can get cheap new electronics (and other parts) from China and
other sources, and there is still some surplus available - but no one can deny
that it is anything like it was (and for Chinese sourced components, you may
have to wait a while to get them - heck, I just recently received some parts I
ordered on AliExpress back in December - and it wasn't the vendor's fault - it
was stuck in customs in China for some reason).

It's frustrating from the standpoint of innovation and experimentation (not to
mention learning on a budget), but there isn't anything that can be done about
it (and maybe we shouldn't do anything about it, either)...

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ThomPete
Great documentary.

One of the most interesting types of innovation which has come out of Shenzen
is within production. Some of these companies literally started creating cheap
knockoffs smartphone batteries and is now delivering superior batteries for ex
large car manufactorers in ways European companies simply can't compete with.

~~~
Nokinside
It's easy to look down copying and forget that copying someone who is ahead is
usually the fastest way to learn.

Japanese started the same way. They started with cheap sup-par copies and
trinkets. Gradually their quality improved.

~~~
ThomPete
Agree thats actually how most people become great musicians, by learning what
others do and build on that. In fact i cant think of an single area which
isn't only getting better by copying other stuff and then moving past that.

One could say the evolutionary process is based on this principle.

Copy. Paste. Improve. Repeat.

------
RichardHeart
For every nation that desires to improve it's lot in life, there is a
transition period. You must bridge the gap from the ultra suck, to more suck
than normal, on to the good life. There are a very finite number of ways to
bridge those gaps. Industry is one that is tried and proven.

It's easy to call a peoples way to move up in the world bad, its much harder
to suggest a real world viable alternative path. I'm ok with China becoming
the worlds best manufacturers of many things, and the cheapest manufacturers
of other things.

I am unaware of another path that they could have taken, or could take right
now, that would get them as much GDP or even better citizen outcomes, except
for perhaps spreading the wealth downstream a bit more?

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jstimpfle
A propos - I recommend the game "Shenzhen I/O" on Steam. Runs on Linux, too.

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aaron-lebo
I find this fascinating and troubling.

From a hacker perspective it is incredible. On the other hand, this is all
driven by a profoundly illiberal government that has no goals other than its
own survival and that's supported by a lot of human misery, some might say
slavery. I love using Apple products but it's hard to forget the conditions at
places like Foxconn.

Both sides think they are outflanking the other - the West hopes this
development will liberalize China and increase respect for IP and rule of law
while the Chinese government intends to use this interaction, trade, and
adoption of tech to increase their own power. It's a very risky game. It's
easy to criticize the US government (and for obvious reasons - this is not a
defense of US foreign policy) but Chinese hegemony might be far worse.

As techies how can we create places like this in other more open countries?
Can this kind of development not be done locally or in Latin America
countries?

Please understand this is not an attack on China, just some (I think)
realistic concerns about their government.

~~~
Nokinside
>profoundly illiberal government that has no goals other than its own survival
and that's supported by a lot of human misery,

This is common misconception. China is authoritarian country but it's not a
totalitarian dictatorship. Chinese government actually has problems of
controlling it's population and people are not afraid to show their
displeasure with protest and riots when things are wrong.

Politically modern China is very much like United Kingdom before universal
suffrage. Communist party (60 million members) is very much like the noble
class in UK. This upper class is full aware that they can't rule with iron
fist. They have to deliver better conditions for people and manage
industrialization and urbanization or their days are numbered. They have also
tied their existence to Chinese (= Han) unity and nationalism (dangerously so,
Taiwan is existential question for the communist party).

Economically modern China is very much like UK during industrialization.
People in China are more at the mercy of crony capitalism and smog than the
government.

Hopefully China will go trough similar set of gradual reforms. Maybe
communists end up in the Chinese House of Lords where communist party still
has little power.

\----

>it's hard to forget the conditions at places like Foxconn.

People in the developing world move to cities to escape malnutrition. They are
not forced to work in Foxconn, they choose to work in Foxconn in exchange of
enough nutrition. If you want to see bad conditions, visit rural China and
India where people still suffer from malnutrition. Malnutrition in China has
dropped dramatically, thanks for hose horrible factory jobs. India has it much
worse.

~~~
yore129
> They are not forced to work in Foxconn, they choose to work in Foxconn in
> exchange of enough nutrition.

That's totally untrue. People who come from the country side can't change jobs
like that, they need some kind of permit to change jobs and sometimes they are
actually forced to work somewhere. The job market in China is clearly biased
against the worker, there is no real freedom of work for a large amount of
people in China. And you're not even talking about all the corruption going
that make sure these people keep getting exploited and forced to work in these
places.

> China is authoritarian country but it's not a totalitarian dictatorship

By all standards it is a dictatorship, with re-education camps, no freedom of
speech, a secret police and summary executions. Just because they are
capitalists doesn't change that. The fact is, in the west we don't care,
provided we have our slaves that build cheap stuffs. We basically outsourced
slavery and accepted it thanks to an effective PR and the corruption of our
own governments. Things were different 10/15 years ago, back then, China had a
different reputation.

~~~
Nokinside
>they need some kind of permit to change jobs and sometimes they are actually
forced to work somewhere.

Your information is outdated. China is changing rapidly. Things that were true
20 years ago are not true anymore.

It used to be that people had to be part of a work unit. In return people
received free housing and were assigned a job. This is not true anymore.
People can move around the country relatively freely, they can pick their job
and buy their house. On the other hand they may have to live in the street and
or go on without a job.

Big companies like Foxconn provide housing etc. and may try to control their
workers, but people can quit and leave. They even have strikes. Chinese
workers still don't have right to organize, but sometimes collective
bargaining is allowed at factory level.

Chinese government still restricts workforce moment into some areas to prevent
formation of slums in the cities.

~~~
aaron-lebo
What about hukou?

 _In November 2005, Jiang Wenran, acting director of the China Institute at
the University of Alberta, said that the hukou system was one of the most
strictly enforced apartheid structures in modern world history.[56] He stated,
'Urban dwellers enjoy a range of social, economic and cultural benefits while
peasants, the majority of the Chinese population, are treated as second-class
citizens.'[56]

Kam Wing Chan (陳金永 Chén Jīnyǒng) and Buckingham's (2008) article, "Is China
Abolishing the Hukou System?"[30] argues that previous reforms have not
fundamentally changed the hukou system, but have only decentralized the powers
of hukou to local governments. They conclude that the hukou system remains
active and continues to contribute to China's rural and urban disparity.[31]

In March 2008, over 30 leading intellectuals wrote an open letter to the
Government, asking for the "immediate abolition of the rural-urban dual hukou
system." In 2008-09, web posted essays remarked the Hukou system as a "caste
system" of China, and "China a great country of discrimination."[32] The
system is currently only partially enforced, and it has been argued that the
system will have to be further relaxed in order to increase availability of
skilled workers to industries.[33]_

I understand that there has been some reform, but it still exists.

~~~
Nokinside
Hukou style register is common in Asia. Japan and Taiwan have it too.

Like I said, Chinese government still want's to prevent uncontrolled rural-
urban population transfers and formation of slums. Undocumented immigrants in
United States are analogous problem (citizens versus immigrants).

But the system has been radically changed. If person can show that they have
work or house after six months they can stay and get their children in school
etc.

------
ohstopitu
How would a hobbyist based in Canada get access to that market to buy stuff
from? (without getting scammed?)

~~~
esm5
You can try Aliexpress.com. They have buyer protection.

~~~
cr0sh
I second this, greatly. Just be aware that some things might be slower to
arrive. I recently received the last of an order that I made in December - it
was stuck in port on China's end (not the vendor's fault). If you can live
with that, then it can be great.

Otherwise, if you need it faster, look on Amazon or Ebay (use vendors that
have their product "fulfilled by Amazon" for fastest shipping, for Ebay, look
for sellers that have the cheap stuff shipped from the US - that usually means
they have stuff stocked in the States). It won't be as cheap as AliExpress,
but it will be close enough (the extra premium may or may not be worth it for
you).

Also - be aware that there are also surplus outlets out there for electronics
and such, if you're just experimenting and not manufacturing (where you need a
dependable supply of new components). I personally like (and purchase from
often) these places:

[http://www.allelectronics.com/](http://www.allelectronics.com/)

[http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/](http://www.goldmine-elec-
products.com/)

[http://www.alltronics.com/](http://www.alltronics.com/)

------
adenadel
Does anyone know where you can find the next documentary they made on Israel?

~~~
georgiev
I don't think they have released it yet. When it comes out it should be on
Wired UK's YouTube page.

------
utopcell
Interesting title. Silicon Valley means Integrated Circuits Valley. Has the
term lost its meaning ? (let me google that on bing)

~~~
grzm
Meanings and connotations change.

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the-dude
At least they don't bomb and destabilize the shit out of you. I think you have
a skewed view of the worldwide reputation of the US.

~~~
aaron-lebo
I tried very hard to avoid whataboutism in my post and I never defended the
US.

~~~
the-dude
You editted

~~~
aaron-lebo
Yes, because previously I stated:

 _It 's easy to criticize the US government but Chinese hegemony might be far
worse._

I thought that was enough to avoid defending the US, but I guess not.

~~~
the-dude
That is because in your whole post you fail to raise any significant point. It
just a bit of hand-waving about the US being better than the Chinese.

It just oozes American Exceptionalism without any substance.

~~~
candiodari
Ok then:

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-
te...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-tech-death-
van-criminals-executed-organs-sold-black-market.html)

~~~
randomanon8187
Just related to the source, but today in the news was that Wikipedia no longer
accepts the daily mail as a valid source.

The thing in it may or may not be true.

First result searching for daily mail Wikipedia:
[https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/09/wikipedia-bans-daily-
mai...](https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/09/wikipedia-bans-daily-mail/)

~~~
the-dude
To be honest the piece reads as Godwin's Law disguised as an article so I am
not surprised.

