
Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement - qz_
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46188790
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matthewmacleod
This all seems to be entirely moot, given that there is a slim chance of this
deal getting through parliament - assuming it’s anything like it’s expected to
be.

What a colossal waste of time.

~~~
lozenge
Nah, they're just blustering. Nobody would be crazy enough to let the UK crash
out with no deal.

Err... I hope...

~~~
makomk
Last I heard, other MPs so keen to make sure that the UK wouldn't go for No
Deal, they were threatening to make sure that the government couldn't get the
changes to law required to make it possible through:
[https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1061897525467234304](https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1061897525467234304)

Of course, this doesn't stop No Deal from happening, because it happens
automatically on March 29th unless something changes... but it does ensure
that it will be a complete and utter shitshow which will naturally be blamed
entirely on Brexit supporters by the UK press.

So that's basically the state of UK politics.

~~~
rosbrith
I think most of the press would rather seek to continue blaming the EU for not
acceding to the UK's demands and remainers for failing to give Brexit their
full support.

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benj111
So, do we (the public) get to see this agreement? I thought the vote was about
taking power back from unaccountable Brussels etc, etc, etc.

So what happens now? If half the torys are already against this, there doesn't
seem much of a chance of this passing. May has ruled out a second referendum
(I know I shouldn't take her word for it, but I cant see her now announcing a
2nd referendum). So what now? She steps down/ is pushed. Then A) A Brexiteer
takes us out without a deal. B) No one wants to take responsibility for
removing us and calls a 2nd ref. C) election called. Then back to square one?
This is the option I'm most worried about. Labour doesn't seem ready to stand
on a manifesto of remain. The lib Dems wont be able to get a majority, so
brexiting parties will win by default, except we have no idea who. And they
wont have anytime to do anything.

Did I miss one?

Edit: Spellong

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digianarchist
Irish foreign minister said the negotiations are still ongoing:

[https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1062386105713131521](https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1062386105713131521)

~~~
akerro
That's why it's a draft... 5 months before deadline...

~~~
tpm
The agreement has to be ratified by EP and 28 national parliaments though, so
realistically it's much less than 5 months.

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Tomte
I sure hope the EU hasn't given in to the DUP.

But since May won't get anything through parliament, it's probably a moot
point.

~~~
dogma1138
Corbyn wants Brexit to happen he’ll whip Labour into passing it.

~~~
clort
Thats interesting do you have a reference for that?

There is a lot said about Jeremy Corbyn and I've noticed that a lot of the
mainstream media (even left-wing like the Guardian) are very against him and
have been vocal about everything he stands for, which I find interesting. This
article,

[https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-
referen...](https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-referendum-
uk-should-stay-in-eu-warts-and-all/)

from 2016 says that he thought at that time we should stay in EU and this does
align with what I remember of that time. He was widely quoted as saying that
although EU needs to change, we should stick with it and help change it from
within.

~~~
rezeroed
[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/10/labour-
mps-...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/10/labour-mps-
criticise-corbyn-for-saying-we-cant-stop-brexit)

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ProxCoques
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: there is going to be one hell of a
bust-up before this is over.

------
Bantros
Shambolic

------
man-and-laptop
Opinion on Brexit. Hopefully of interest:

I'm torn on Brexit.

If Britain stays in the European Union, then it won't have a lot of power to
manage her borders. The "liberalness" of Britain's immigration policy ends up
being at minimum the liberalness of each of the other 27 EU countries. Germany
could let in 1 million immigrants (good for them), all of them would get
citizenship, all of them can go to the UK, the UK can't say to any of them
"Hold on a minute. Are you even a fit?"

Also, this kind of unrestricted immigration is a historical anomaly. 100s of
years ago, it took too long to travel from one place to another, and so people
who lived far away were more different to each other. It's not clear whether
throwing all the borders open will result in something stable that will last
for centuries.

It's also a colossal experiment. If the experiment doesn't work out (see the
above paragraph) then 28 countries pay the price. The UK will be deeply
affected because it's an immigrant magnet, due to its high living standards, a
lot of employment opportunities, and a widely spoken national language;
something might happen to Romania and Poland, given that much of their
population has apparently emigrated. If the experiment turns out bad, then
multiply the impact by 28 for each of the 28 countries.

And there was a recent article on HN about an EU law that says newspaper
headlines are going under copyright. Again, mistakes like this affect 500
million people (the citizens of the EU) and 28 different countries. This is a
monoculture, which is bad in nature; why not in politics? The Ottoman
monoculture might have been one of the things that set the Middle East / North
Africa back. For instance, the Ottomans banned printing (in Arabic). How would
that have been good for science? And China's another famous empire/union
(monoculture), in which one emperor dissolved their fleet, which was the most
advanced at the time, impacting their trade, and preventing them from settling
elsewhere. How is a European, or even a globalised monoculture, any better?

On the other hand, I can see how the immediate economic impacts of Brexit
might be bad.

~~~
zero_iq
You are talking nonsense.

The UK has (and always has had) complete exemption from EU common immigration
policy. The EU is not able to dictate immigration controls to the UK. If you
have a problem with how the UK handles non-EU immigration then it is the fault
of UK government policy, not the EU.

The complete exception from common immigration policy of the UK (along with
Ireland and in some matters Denmark) is laid out in the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union (2009).

EDIT: to clarify -- I am referring to non-EU immigration here, not freedom-of-
movement for EU citizens.

~~~
man-and-laptop
Really? Because "freedom of movement" seems to be the sticking point in the
Brexit negotiations. The UK can't go the Norway route because it doesn't want
"free movement" into its territory.

~~~
zero_iq
I'm referring to common immigration policy, i.e. from outside the EU into the
EU. This is distinct from freedom-of-movement for EU citizens within the EU.
Such freedom-of-movement does not apply to non-EU citizens.

~~~
man-and-laptop
A person from country C can immigrate into the UK by immigrating into one of
27 different other countries, and then using free movement to get into the UK.
This makes border control harder.

~~~
zero_iq
Indeed. But to become an EU citizen you have to meet the citizenship
requirements, the common standard for which the UK has previously negotiated
and agreed along with the other members, PLUS additional requirements and
limitations can be imposed by the UK for other kinds of long term residential
statuses. It's not like one member state is allowed really lax citizenship
laws, so people can choose to sneak in through there, and restrictions can be
imposed even by the UK for a limited period.

The UK manages to both have influence over EU immigration policies AND also
have exemption to it for non-EU immigration, AND can apply its own limitations
even for when immigrants get citizenship for a limited period. Yet many
brexiters spout on about how the EU just dictates everything to us and it's
all out of our control. Absolute rubbish.

