
Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment - moonka
http://observer.com/2017/03/airbnb-nda-damage-in-london-after-drug-party/
======
tptacek
The irony of YC's flagship startup forcing exploding term sheets on their
customers is a bit much to take.

[ _ps_ ]

Airbnb's statement concluding this story says that this interaction fell short
of their expectations. Maybe they can go a bit farther. Can they commit (just
a comment here would suffice) to not using the exploding-settlement tactic
with their clients? Maybe all they'd really need to say is that nobody outside
their counsel's office will ever be authorized to put an explicit time limit
on any offered settlement.

~~~
will_brown
Thats a pretty unreasonable request that a billion dollar company agree not to
include deadlines in their settlement offers moving forward.

In fact I've never heard of a settlement agreement without a deadline, it
wouldn't amount to malpractice but it would be pretty negligent to offer any
type of settlement agreement on open ended terms of acceptance. As to the
NDA/confidentiality, that too is the default of settlemenre, and if this were
in litigation any settlement talks/negotiations are confidential by rules of
the court.

~~~
tptacek
Which is why I said "nobody outside their counsel's office".

Here, we're all pretty clear these aren't good-faith deadlines, but rather
negotiating devices intended to coerce people into accepting terms without
consultation with their own lawyers.

~~~
debacle
AirBnB is a business.

------
mikeash
What's going on here? The first half of the story sounds like routine
corporate incompetency. Representatives don't read your stuff, can't be
bothered to follow their own procedures, and screw you over. Unacceptable but,
alas, fairly common when dealing with big companies.

The NDA is where it goes off the rails. He's entitled to that money, so why
would they try to put conditions on it? I'm sure they're not thrilled to have
him talking, but it's not like they have a choice in the matter. Once someone
who is allowed to use their brains got involved, the result should have been a
quick payment and an end to the saga.

~~~
kazinator
It's not unusual for settlements to have conditions attached, which makes this
NDA thing somewhat less outlandish than it seems at first. For instance, if
you settle with an insurance company after a car accident, you may have to
sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for
anything more.

If the person is properly compensated 100%, but keeps talking, it can be
argued that their material damage has been fully restored, while they continue
to inflict material damage against the other party. Thus there is some
unfairness there. AirBNB, the company, didn't wreck that apartment; the
renters did.

Not that the devil would ever have me as his advocate, but let me play one for
a second ...

~~~
jsmthrowaway
There is no settlement involved, because there is no legal claim, technically.
None of the logic around legal settlements comes into play at all, so the
devil's advocacy here is misguided. The NDA _is_ outlandish and is clearly
designed to shut him up and cover up the mishandling of the case.

This might be different under UK law, but if he had sued you might have a
point. Then I'd expect gag, non-disparagement, forefeiture of claims and so
on. I've signed those personally and understand that. But if I haven't sued
you and you gag me for what I deem fair? Well, sounds like I should
potentially sue because someone is not operating in good faith, and it ain't
me. That move alone would make me want to discover your internal
communications about handling me and in this case, I bet they're awesome.

Keep in mind they're writing him off from saying "they fixed this! They're the
good guys!" which sure, seems unlikely, but if a company takes care of
something without a lawsuit a gag seems counterintuitive and in bad faith.

~~~
tptacek
I think the logic is pretty much identical. Abnb could, of course, simply
refuse to pay anything. His recourse would be to the courts. The most likely
outcome of that would be a settlement. The highest-dollar settlement would
likely include confidentiality terms.

The incentive structure Abnb is creating here is not great, though: if you
know their settlement terms will include confidentiality, and you know they
have to settle _somehow_ no matter what, your incentive as the aggrieved party
is to get your story on the record immediately, before contacting Abnb, so
that what you disclose can't violate their NDA. That's exactly what Abnb
doesn't want to have happen.

They should probably just be up front about the fact that they'll pay a bonus
to clean up the PR.

~~~
jsmthrowaway
Sure. The suit would be public though, and exactly and to your point, wise
plaintiffs would be subtly trying their case in the media from day 1, because
that gag and non-disparagement is undoubtedly coming. Journos live for David
vs. Goliath cases like this. Tossing a contract at me _after_ the case gets a
little attention, where I didn't have to sign one for the first payment, makes
me wonder what you're hiding.

I totally get the logic you're saying, that they're basically treating it as a
settlement, but that maneuver is odd and tips a little of their hand that he
should perhaps just go hit the courts. When I was at AT&T they were a little
rough settling with someone and she ended up suing, and part of the discovery
was her internal notes on the case which blew up the claim by 20x. That's
mostly what I'm thinking of, because there are _for sure_ emails that would be
very interesting to discover here.

Like I said, a gag smells when there's no suit.

------
whack
I have a friend who literally had the exact same experience a week ago. She
rented her apartment to a guy for one night, and he proceeded to have a
massive party filled with drugs, prostitutes, and God knows what else. Her
apartment was subsequently degraded and destroyed beyond all recognition.

Thus far, Airbnb's response to her has been extremely non-reassuring.
Hopefully they will do more in the coming week and remedy the situation. If
not, expect a longer post with pictures soon.

It's stuff like this that gives Airbnb a bad name, and makes many people
hesitant to ever use the service. I hope someone at Airbnb realises that
pinching pennies and not helping hosts when they get screwed, is really going
to hurt Airbnb itself in the long run.

~~~
thedarkginger
It's kind of crazy. People really care about their homes, right? So when bad
things happen, posting photos like these confirm potential hosts' worst fears
about having their place on AirBNB.

I'm surprised that they don't go out of their way to help their hosts (i.e.
buying things online was unfamiliar for users, so Amazon typically is pro-
consumer any time there is a dispute and refunds your money immediately, in my
experience).

~~~
cwilkes
Hosts worst fears? What about the neighbors of the place that is turning into
a flophouse?

------
m-i-l
Not defending Airbnb's behaviour, but this sort of thing happens outside of
Airbnb too. I had some tenants (sons of a well known rock star) cause around
£10K worth of damage to my flat in Shoreditch (plus around £5K in lost rent
given the amount of time it took to repair) a few years back. In that case the
letting agency I used was no help because they said it was a private matter
between myself and the tenants, the insurance was no good because they said
that amount of damage could not be accidental and they didn't cover malicious
damage, and the legal system was no help because it favours tenants. In fact I
might even have been better off with Airbnb.

~~~
shados
With normal tenants, you gamble once every couple of months or years. With
AirBNB, you roll the dice possibly every few days or more.

It's the same difference as owner occupancy vs renters, but taken to the next
order of magnitude.

~~~
Asooka
Also, with normal tenants you don't rent the home you live in.

~~~
collyw
You rent them the home that they live in.

------
rdl
I don't understand how people could do that much damage and it would only come
to $8k. Just the cleanup and repairs to the complex outside of his property
should be nearly that much; losing his lease, other damages, and damage to his
property should be a lot more than that.

~~~
detaro
It reads like he only submitted claims for repairs to his apartment (for
whatever reason, maybe he wasn't billed for repairs/cleanup outside of it).
I'd be surprised if AirBnb would cover him loosing his lease.

~~~
rdl
Maybe he had renter's insurance or something, or some other form of liability
insurance? (I don't know how this works in the UK).

If I were the lessor/host, I'd demand Airbnb pay 100% and then let them go
after whichever other parties they want later. The host should not be the one
on the hook for any of this, including float for however long reimbursement
takes.

(If I were Airbnb I'd probably sue the guest; clearly there was some level of
organization if they brought in an audio system and had an event. Even if it
cost them $20k in legal to go after a $10k judgment it is probably worth the
precedent.)

~~~
cestith
I'd be surprised if residential renter's insurance in the US, UK, or Canada
covered things done during a daily sublet of the space without some special
rider policy. This customer should be covered well enough by AirBNB's
agreement, which apparently only with the help of _The Observer_ is actually
the case.

~~~
rdl
I think it would be easy for a policy to waive contents insurance in such a
case, but a lot more challenging if it waived liability. (Otherwise, as a
condo association or whatever, you could be potentially ruined if any condo
owner owns a unit, has "full insurance" as required, and sublets/has a guest
burn the entire building down.) Insurers have far deeper pockets than
individual property owners, guests, or condo associations. It's possible the
condo association would have additional liability insurance above and beyond
this which would step in, though.

------
19eightyfour
Is it correct that the article asserted damages assessed at USD 8K but offered
to reimburse just under USD 2K?

I could be overreacting to this, but I had a really strong reaction to this
article. I'll preface relating this by stating that in pretty much everything,
I would usually side with the large company or startup. Just my point of view.
I'm not overflowing in sympathy for people complaining about dealing with
companies or large bureaucracies because in my experience that arises from
people's insufficient understanding of how to operate with a company or large
bureaucracy to their advantage. Most of the time I'd be like, people should
learn to be smarter.

With that disclaimer aside this story made me super angry. How could AirBnB
treat this person like that? Clearly guests had defrauded AirBnB's system, and
the host suffered. The host should be totally compensated.

If this was my company, in an extreme case like this, I'd send out an AirBnB
rep to do a damage assessment and collect evidence. And then, not just to be
awesome, but to protect AirBnB against bad PR, and to encourage AirBnB to
develop more robust guest fraud detection, I'd compensate as a policy 20 - 25
% over the amount. So this guy would get USD 10K and hands on treatment.

A complication I'm not considering is -- who is owed the damages, the guest or
the landlord? But the idea above would be indicative of my response, and how I
think they should have done this.

I super hate it to read great PR about AirBnB doing awesome things and then to
see something like this. And the dereliction and indifference exhibited by the
email chain...so angry. The worst thing is: you can judge a person ( and a
company ) by how they treat people they don't think they need to treat well.
So when AirBnB makes money out of you, and you use their shiny site,
everything is grand. But when you suddenly suffer and need their help, their
action falls well below their promise.

Like I said, maybe I'm overreacting or not seeing this clearly. But on the
face of what I saw this is how I took this. So angry!

~~~
jccooper
The fact that they're trying to chisel this customer out of a few grand
suggests to me that host compensation must be a real cost center for AirBNB...
which is actually worse than if it were just really bad customer service,
because it means that the chances of this happening to your apartment are much
higher than advertised. Neither way, of course, is a good look.

~~~
MegaButts
AirBnB is a company I want to IPO more than any other just so I can see their
finances. The idea is so simple, so universal, and (theoretically) so
profitable that I was surprised that they only just became profitable. I
assumed the company had been printing money for years, back before they had to
deal with lawsuits, regularly avoided taxes, and when everybody still loved
them.

It doesn't surprise me that they're profitable at this stage, but the fact
that it took them so long to get there on a completely unlevel playing field
(competitors pay taxes, have better customer service, own physical property,
etc) makes me seriously concerned about the future prospects of this business.

I obviously don't have the data, but it seems people are growing to like them
less and less. Whenever founders have a sense of entitlement (I've met Brian
and Joe - they came across as arrogant) it doesn't end well when they suddenly
have to play by the same rules as everyone else. AirBnB is way too big that
they can shirk the law anymore, and as the public grows to dislike them more
their lobbying efforts will become increasingly futile (just look at what
happened in New York).

------
rdl
Tangentially, as a guest, I've found a new (to me) use for Airbnb -- renting
places in areas I'm considering a long lease or purchase. And for "work from
home", it's actually possible to check with hosts and verify good Internet (in
WA, Wave G or Frontier FIOS or something), which is a lot harder in hotels.

~~~
jackhammer2022
Do you stick a budget for your WFH rentals? How long do you rent for?

~~~
rdl
For 4 APR - 10 MAY in Redmond/Bellevue I have the downstairs of a house (3
bedrooms) with 100/100 FiOS for $2k. I'm fine with that as home + wfh, since
it means I can delay signing a 12mo+ lease for 3mo (as I'll be in Ukraine in
June/July).

------
mtalantikite
A friend of mine is having similar issues with a neighboring apartment in
their building in a more suburban neighborhood of NYC. Large parties of
seemingly underage kids have been renting the apartment upstairs, throwing
weekend long parties, and trashing the surrounding area (using the side of the
house as a bathroom, for instance). The landlord doesn't seem to care since
the unit would otherwise be empty and he can make the same rent in a weekend
as he would in a month. That building doesn't seem to be the only one doing
the same thing in the neighborhood.

I had never really thought of kids using AirBnb like that before, but it makes
sense. When I was a teenager parties happened when people's parents went away
for the weekend. Now an older kid can get a credit card, create a fake
profile, rent an apartment for the weekend, charge a fee at the door, and have
at it.

~~~
garethsprice
Assume they've tried calling the cops already?

NYC's been cracking down on short-term/airbnb sublets recently so if you can
twist the right arm you might be able to get something done.

I recently helped a friend with a housing issue (deadbeat subtenants) and we
discovered that the NYC housing court has a great service where you can talk
to a housing lawyer for free, might be worth a shot to see if your friend has
any legal options:
[https://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/housing/vlpselfrep.shtml...](https://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/housing/vlpselfrep.shtml#meet)

------
DanBC
This email exchange reads like something from Black Mirror.

[https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/emailexchang...](https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/emailexchange.pdf)

It's amazing he didn't go and firebomb AirBnB. This kind of communication
would leave me incandescent with rage.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Man, that is bad; totally agree with you DanBC. The third time the AirBnB rep
asked for details of the blinds I was gob-smacked that I could have noticed it
twice already on a brief scan and they apparently didn't see it - or perhaps
it was just a delaying tactic to force the financial situation to become more
grave for their client, like you say true Black Mirror stuff.

Then at the end they try to low-ball him on what realistically was probably a
tenth of what he seemed to have due (by that stage), giving him a short time-
limit - what was it, 24 hours? - to click a button to accept the minimal offer
or to "agree" to nothing.

That sort of vile behaviour deserves a company to be sued to within a penny of
it's existence IMO.

~~~
19eightyfour
It's totally sad, but the ignoring of client responses and repeated redundant
requests for information already provided, is a standard psychological
domination tactic used by interrogators and ( hey, whaddaya know ) compliance
people. It's meant to cause the client to become more subdued, submissive and
easier to handle.

I hate this kind of thing being used by a company that I wanted to respect.

I truly believe: powerful people ( and companies ) empower others, they don't
disempower them.

~~~
HillaryBriss
> _the ignoring of client responses and repeated redundant requests for
> information already provided, is a standard psychological domination tactic_

that describes some of the managers/clients i've worked for. a very effective
technique.

------
jsiegz
Bribes are generally illegal. This should be "compensates," not "bribes."
"Bribes" is just hyperbole. This is standard practice for a lot of businesses
in a similar space.

~~~
dang
We put quotes around that word in the title. I'll add an explanation here in a
bit.

Edit: ok, here's an explanation.

We put quotes around "bribes" because that's the tiniest intervention I can
think of that still addresses your concern. Why so tiny? That takes a while to
explain, so read on if you want to understand how we approach this.

The title breaks the HN guidelines
([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html))
by being both baity and misleading. It also contradicts the article text
(assuming I read it correctly), since it declares a thing to have happened
which the text itself reports as _not_ having happened, if you read it to the
end. Such a bait-and-switch is a marker of a bad article.

Normally the moderation on this would be a no-brainer. We'd replace the title
with one that is accurate and neutral, and we'd apply a standard downweight
that we put on outrage stories which don't contain anything of intellectual
interest, especially when the topic has appeared many times before. If we
didn't do these things, HN's front page would consist of nothing but dime-a-
dozen outrage and the elves would leave middle earth.

However, when the story is negative about YC or a YC-funded company, the
regular rules don't apply; we still moderate, but we do it less. That is the
first thing pg taught me about how to moderate HN, and the first thing I've
taught every other moderator. I've written about this many times: e.g.
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20moderate%20yc%20less...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20moderate%20yc%20less&sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment)
and
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20pg%20chair&sort=byPo...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20pg%20chair&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment).

Frankly, it bites to see an article get away with this kind of thing on HN
when we spend every day trying to keep the front page good. But that's the
price we pay for being able to answer users' concerns about conflicts of
interest in moderating HN. It doesn't prevent a few people from saying awful
things about us—this is the internet after all—but it does let us answer in
good conscience. Doing our best and answering questions seems to be enough to
keep most HN users happy, which is the thing we care most about.

~~~
eropple
FWIW (and I realize what it's W is minimal), despite the shade I sometimes
throw re: certain policies on HN, I think you guys do an _excellent_ job of
threading the needle with regards to YC-related companies.

~~~
Hydraulix989
He's in a tough position, and I appreciate that he is transparent about it,
even though I am still a bit disappointed. Normally I'd be a whole lot more
outraged if he _didn't_ disclose his differential treatment towards YC
companies, even though I would've definitely suspected and even expected such
differential treatment.

------
__jal
Hard to say what I'd do when I haven't been in that situation, but in a past
dispute with a large company, I felt I had the freedom to make them pay for
their desired confidentiality. (It wasn't quite like this situation, but
somewhat similar.)

I demanded a 60% premium over their "final" offer for the confidentiality
clause. They told me to take a walk, but reversed and paid after my lawyer
contacted them. (the 60% was basically pulled out of my nether bits; it was a
wild guess at what they might value it at.)

I'd recommend anyone in a similar situation putting a price tag on the gag
clauses, if they can afford it. Aside from many other issues, it is a nasty
tactic that is bad for markets, because it increases economic inefficiency by
increasing information asymmetry.

~~~
bigbugbag
IMHO submitting to corporate NDA is wrong. Corporations should be exposed for
their wrongdoings so other people can know about it and corporations made into
changing their ways.

~~~
srtjstjsj
signing an NDA is becoming complicit in the scam, like joining an MLM scheme.

------
yomly
You'd think Airbnb would be absolutely horrified of stories like this. How
many hosts does this incrementally deter from using Airbnb?

Additionally, their SLAs for customer support are incredibly user-hostile,
bordering on actively so. Look at how Amazon can do things better - no
questions asked refunds and generally 24 hour SLAs on contact.

How can Airbnb fail so hard on realising that an internet business, such as
theirs, lives and dies by customer trust...

~~~
MegaButts
> How can Airbnb fail so hard on realising that an internet business, such as
> theirs, lives and dies by customer trust...

Because the founders are arrogant and it's ingrained in the company's culture.
This isn't the first story of AirBnB's incompetence in handling customers and
the media.

[http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/10/21/passive-
ag...](http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/10/21/passive-aggressive-
pro-airbnb-ads-appear-on-muni-shleters)

Their official response when asked for comment goes as follows:

\--------------------

We emailed Airbnb spokesman Christopher Nulty to ask whether the library ad
was "real." He responded by email, "as opposed to a fake one :)"

A follow up email, explaining that we were in fact seeking confirmation as to
whether the ads are actually from Airbnb received the following response: "Are
you seriously writing on this?"

\--------------------

edit: What I find most amazing is that guy is still a Public Affairs Lead for
the company. That says a lot about how they operate.

------
sarreph
> This was all too reminiscent of the NDA Tesla asked customers to sign last
> year after a defect was discovered, a request that was deemed “unacceptable”
> by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (which issued the
> warning about the defects).

How are the biggest and trendiest companies getting away with this kind of
despicable behaviour? The lack of regulation in intervention here is
especially troubling.

~~~
srtjstjsj
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil_Co._of_New_Jersey...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil_Co._of_New_Jersey_v._United_States)

Despicable behavior is the history of business

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
Why do people find it surprising that companies who exist mainly on the
premise of ignoring laws/regulations they find inconvenient, won't eventually
ignore laws/regulations that you think worthwhile (ie Uber and sexual
harassment and AirBnb and paying for damages).

In addition, I find it interesting that the host is only sending a bill for
$8000. It seems as if he is only trying to get paid for his damages and not
even considering the damage and disruption to his neighbors (who unlike the
host are wholly blameless in this manner). It seems AirBnb attracts the jerks
and freeloaders.

~~~
dvdhnt
> It seems as if he is only trying to get paid for his damages and not even
> considering the damage and disruption to his neighbors (who unlike the host
> are wholly blameless in this manner).

I don't agree with this. Obviously, if a bystander's property was damaged,
this would be true, however, the idea of being paid for a "disruption" is
silly. It's called life and it's full of annoyances. I'd argue the people
angling for compensation because they're annoyed probably fall into the jerk
and freeloader category more than someone who is willing to forgo
reimbursement for his damaged property in order to warn the public about a
potential pitfall.

~~~
Marazan
Hey, if some chooses to live next to a hotel then that's there choice. If a
unlicensed hotel opens next to them (i.e. an airbnb rental) then they have
been impinged on.

~~~
zipppy
That's a slippery slope; if my neighbors plant tulips and I HATE tulips, I
don't get to sue for damages, even if the tulips weren't there when I moved
in.

~~~
nradov
There is no slippery slope. The legal doctrine of quiet enjoyment is well
established with clear limits based on centuries of precedents.

[http://legal-
dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/quiet+enjoymen...](http://legal-
dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/quiet+enjoyment)

------
jInflux
I find it shocking that someone thought it was a good idea to list a flat on
airbnb that they're only renting themselves. Largely in England subletting is
not allowed under the terms of rental agreements.

~~~
post_break
But doesn't Airbnb want you to do just that? Sublease even if it's against the
law?

------
canada_dry
www.airbnbhell.com

Lots of crazy stories!

Their business model seems to rely on people willing to roll the dice on their
safety and security to save (or earn) a few bucks! It will undoubtedly survive
this little blip of negative publicity, but people really need to be wary of
this organization's complete lack of customer service (when things go bad).

~~~
wingworks
A few years ago I was going to do exactly what the guy in the article did, was
going to put my own place on Airbnb when I was away, never did in the end, but
it was something I was always interested in doing, I remember reading AirBnb's
host insurance policy and they seemed very fair if something bad had happened
to my place, but if they don't payout, it's as good as useless. So after
reading this, not a chance I'll ever list. (maybe in a few years if I hear its
turned around, maybe)

------
rahilsondhi
Am I the only one disgusted by the canned replies from Airbnb to Luciano? The
guy had his home ruined and all Peter from Airbnb can talk about is file
format requirements. Where is the empathy?

~~~
bigbugbag
If it was not for Hanlon's Razor, I'd think this was deliberate and part of
the process of cheating the guy out of the money he was entitled to.

Though this is a repeat of history as this has happened before, for example
with the guy that got bitten by a rottweiler[1].

[1]: [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/your-money/questions-
abou...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/your-money/questions-about-
airbnbs-responsibility-after-vicious-attack-by-dog.html)

~~~
srtjstjsj
Of course it's deliberate. AirBnB's business model is to achieve profit margin
by cheating laws and contracts, and facilitating their customers doing same.

------
geoffmcc
>>
[https://web.archive.org/web/20170330184054/http://observer.c...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170330184054/http://observer.com/2017/03/airbnb-
nda-damage-in-london-after-drug-party/)

archive of page. adds were crashing my browser.

------
jamisteven
there are endless stories like this with AirBNB. They are right in that they
have millions of successful bookings and these one-off scenarios are the
exception to the rule, but they are being very unprofessional in the way they
handle these matters. I would lawyered up as soon as they started dickin me
around.

~~~
jonny_eh
Apparently involving the media is cheaper and faster. Right move in this
scenario.

------
nodesocket
"They barricaded themselves inside with 14 police officers being unable to get
them out until morning.”

What? In America (god bless thee) police would have broken down doors and
pepper sprayed those monsters, hopefully a few billy clubs to the head as well
and arrested them all.

~~~
st3v3r
Only if they weren't white (See: Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge office
occupation).

------
endgame
Somehow that page's autoplaying video gets around the browser's mute control.
The web continues to get worse...

------
pasbesoin
You are scum, Airbnb. I don't care that you are a YC company.

You profit by making and end-run around decades of law and regulation -- much
in place for a purpose and to make the lives of long-term tenants and owners
tolerable and predictable.

It sounds as if you've now also gone full-on into the typical modern corporate
"customer support" model.

Everything driven by lawyers and "risk minimization." Purposeful process
dysfunction to discourage and kill as many claims and as much financial demand
as possible. Support staff who know nothing of the circumstances and who
furthermore refuse to inform themselves as to same. Escalating pressure to
accept low-ball settlements with included gag-provisions, when the more
persistent claimants don't simply give up. Real, effective response and
recompense dependent upon the level of "bad PR" and perceived need for "damage
control."

I hope you have your Uber moment -- soon.

------
stordoff
Unless I've overlooked something, the NDA seems to work largely against
Airbnb. It limits their liability to this payment, and compels the host to
provide "reasonable cooperation", but on confidentiality it only states:

> I acknowledge that the existence of the payment by Airbnb and this Airbnb
> Payment Agreement are confidential.

There seems to be nothing stopping the host from continuing to assert "Airbnb
customers wrecked my flat; Airbnb provided terrible support and miscalculated
damages".

------
mercurialshark
Clickbait title.

Why is this a bribe and not a settlement compensation offer? Good luck
settling with your insurance company or an employer without signing an NDA and
forgoing future action.

------
beart
I'm surprised they were able to lock themselves inside and party even with the
police trying to get them out. I feel like that wouldn't be possible in the
U.S.

------
jamesgaston
I don't see the appeal of airb&b. I don't want strangers in my home when i am
not there to monitor my stuff. That's crazy. And i keep horror stories like
this, just read one about a trashed apt in toronto. And i travel a lot and
when i do i go through established agencies for rentals. I'm in Bali now, got
a great house for a good price through traipadvisor.

------
nether
I wonder if there are instances where people signed the NDA and took the
money, that we have not heard about.

------
ouid
Ads injected into a slideshow. We are truly living in the future.

------
akeck
Why don't homeowner's and renter's insurance policies have short term rental
exclusion clauses? This type of damage seems like a source of expensive
claims.

~~~
alistairSH
I believe they do. That's why AirBnB advertises the policy mentioned in the
article. The problem is AirBnB appears to make it very difficult to make a
successful claim.

------
CptJamesCook
Airbnb guests constantly rent my place to party. It's been a problem for
years, at both of my homes. I block many of them, but can't detect them all.
The other day an airbnb guest held a party, and they trashed my neighbor's
balcony (below mine).

They need to get partying off the platform. It's terrible for neighbors and
hosts, and it's not even much revenue; the partiers usually book for one
night. Regular guests on average stay 4-5 nights.

~~~
nradov
It's sad that you abuse your neighbors by treating your home as an unlicensed
hotel and allow random people in for short-term rentals without proper vetting
or supervision. If I was your neighbor I would certainly complain to the HOA,
complex management, or city code enforcement to have you fined or evicted.
Hopefully you at least paid for the cleanup and repair, with some additional
compensation for their trouble.

~~~
kyleblarson
How are you certain that the host has not gone through the local permitting
processes and is in a building that disallows STR's?

~~~
FireBeyond
Well, aside from your issues above, "It's terrible for my neighbors, but I
keep doing it, even though it's not much money" certainly isn't going to win
any friends.

------
chris123
We stopped using Airbnb years ago after a very-scary-guest incident.

------
y3sh
Moral of the story is "go to the press"

------
cosinetau
I'm beginning to feel that these app business are nothing more than modern get
rich quick schemes, and will not stand the test of time.

------
phonon
Hmmm...actually the most clearly unethical act was not the low ball offer, the
deadlines, or the non-disclosure request--it was the repeated insistence by
"Peter" that "the decision reached in this case is final, and cannot be
overturned" which is a blatant lie.

The Airbnb Host Guarantee clearly lays out an arbitration process in case of
any dispute.

[https://www.airbnb.com/terms/host_guarantee](https://www.airbnb.com/terms/host_guarantee)

General. You and Airbnb agree that any dispute, claim or controversy arising
out of or relating to these Airbnb Host Guarantee Terms or the breach,
termination, enforcement, interpretation or validity thereof, or to the use of
the Services or use of the Site or Application (collectively, “Disputes”) will
be settled by binding arbitration. You acknowledge and agree that you and
Airbnb are each waiving the right to a trial by jury or to participate as a
plaintiff or class member in any purported class action lawsuit, class-wide
arbitration, private attorney-general action, or any other representative
proceeding. Further, unless both you and Airbnb otherwise agree in writing,
the arbitrator may not consolidate more than one person’s claims, and may not
otherwise preside over any form of any class or representative proceeding. If
this specific paragraph is held unenforceable, then the entirety of this
“Dispute Resolution” section will be deemed void. Except as provided in the
preceding sentence, this “Dispute Resolution” section will survive any
termination of these Airbnb Host Guarantee Terms.

Arbitration Rules and Governing Law. This agreement to arbitrate evidences a
transaction in interstate commerce, and thus the Federal Arbitration Act
governs the interpretation and enforcement of this provision. The arbitration
will be administered by the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”) in
accordance with the Consumer Arbitration Rules (the “AAA Rules”) then in
effect, except as modified by this “Dispute Resolution” section. (The AAA
Rules are available at [http://www.adr.org](http://www.adr.org) or by calling
the AAA at +1 800 778 7879.) The Federal Arbitration Act will govern the
interpretation and enforcement of this Section.

Arbitration Process. A party who desires to initiate arbitration must provide
the other party with a written Demand for Arbitration as specified in the AAA
Rules. (The AAA provides a form Demand for Arbitration.
[https://www.adr.org/cs/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dDocName=A...](https://www.adr.org/cs/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dDocName=ADRSTAGE2034889&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased)
) The arbitrator will be either a retired judge or an attorney licensed to
practice law in the state of California and will be selected by the parties
from the AAA’s roster of consumer dispute arbitrators. If the parties are
unable to agree upon an arbitrator within seven (7) days of delivery of the
Demand for Arbitration, then the AAA will appoint the arbitrator in accordance
with the AAA Rules.

Arbitration Location and Procedure. Unless you and Airbnb otherwise agree, the
arbitration will be conducted in the county where you reside. If your claim
does not exceed $10,000, then the arbitration will be conducted solely on the
basis of documents you and Airbnb submit to the arbitrator, unless you request
a hearing or the arbitrator determines that a hearing is necessary. If your
claim exceeds $10,000, your right to a hearing will be determined by the AAA
Rules. Subject to the AAA Rules, the arbitrator will have the discretion to
direct a reasonable exchange of information by the parties, consistent with
the expedited nature of the arbitration.

Arbitrator’s Decision. The arbitrator will render an award within the time
frame specified in the AAA Rules. The arbitrator’s decision will include the
essential findings and conclusions upon which the arbitrator based the award.
Judgment on the arbitration award may be entered in any court having
jurisdiction thereof. The arbitrator’s award damages must be consistent with
the terms of the “Disclaimers and Limitations of Liability” section above as
to the types and the amounts of damages for which a party may be held liable.
The arbitrator may award declaratory or injunctive relief only in favor of the
claimant and only to the extent necessary to provide relief warranted by the
claimant’s individual claim. If you prevail in arbitration you will be
entitled to an award of attorneys’ fees and expenses, to the extent provided
under applicable law. Airbnb will not seek, and hereby waives all rights it
may have under applicable law to recover, attorneys’ fees and expenses if it
prevails in arbitration.

Arbitration Fees. Your responsibility to pay any AAA filing, administrative
and arbitrator fees will be solely as set forth in the AAA Rules. However, if
your claim for damages does not exceed $75,000, Airbnb will pay all such fees
unless the arbitrator finds that either the substance of your claim or the
relief sought in your Demand for Arbitration was frivolous or was brought for
an improper purpose (as measured by the standards set forth in Federal Rule of
Civil Procedure 11(b)).

------
larrik
It's 8k pounds, though, which is a lot more than 8k dollars.

Edit: I'm impressed how my bad reading comprehension spawned so many replies.

~~~
rdl
No. "which came to a total cost of around £6,400 (about $8,000)" (from TFA).

I'm arguing more for $50k+. The GBP/USD difference isn't significant.

(For anything less than $10k or so, as long as it was at all substantiated,
AirBNB should just pay -- at worst, ban the host. The PR hit from this article
is probably $500k already?)

~~~
diminoten
> The PR hit from this article is probably $500k already?

I highly doubt that.

~~~
ethbro
It doesn't take many full-time rentals to be pulled to make $500k, especially
with the type of halo properties that AirBnB probably loves to list.

But who would also be a bit concerned after reading an article that AirBnB's
damage guarantee wasn't followed through on in a clear and reasonable manner.

~~~
diminoten
"Many" is such a relative term in this context, your comment basically has no
meaning. I doubt we'll ever be able to quantify the damage, one way or
another, that this story has caused AirBnB.

Perhaps in a vain effort to get someone else to give me a sanity check, is
this story not incredible for some additional reasons beyond the terrible
AirBnB response? I feel like everyone's just taking for granted the things the
guest did in the rental space, but how the hell does someone get away with
behaving like that, ever?

Shouldn't the guest and his fellow partygoers all be in jail? They
ignored/disobeyed the orders of police officers, refused to vacate a private
residence after _clearly_ breaching contract (IANAL, I don't know the precise
terms here), violating what i assume to be plenty of noise statues...
Shouldn't the owner of the rental space _also_ be going after the
person/people responsible for trashing his home (responsible being defined
here as the literal people who did the damage)?

What this is telling me is that there's simply no way for an AirBnB host to
ever come after me for doing _anything_ in their home. That can't be true...

------
diminoten
A lot of confusing points to this story. I'm not defending AirBnB, but this
story does baffle on a number of levels.

> (they came with a professional sound system)

How do you not see this coming, from a host perspective? Big red flag. How
this get anywhere near as far as it did? "Well I figured the professional
sound system was going to be fine in my apartment complex."

> Neighbors called the police five times and some partiers left, but most
> remained and locked themselves inside to continue partying.

If the police want to enter a home, and the owner of the home agrees to it,
since when do the people in the home get a say as to whether or not the police
can/cannot enter?

AirBnB handled this _very_ poorly, but why is AirBnB fully responsible for
this? I get that they're trying to attract people to put their homes on their
service, and they _offer_ to be responsible, but why can't Dinulescu go after
the idiots who did this to his apartment directly? Why can't AirBnB do that?

How can a person go into another person's home, as a guest, do something like
this, and not be held responsible, either civilly or criminally?

~~~
supercanuck
> but why is AirBnB fully responsible for this?

Because they are literally committing to it as part of their service offering:

>We’re committed to creating a safe and trusted community around the world.
Though property damage is rare, we understand you may need protection. The
Host Guarantee will reimburse eligible hosts for damages up to $1,000,000.

a [https://www.airbnb.com/guarantee](https://www.airbnb.com/guarantee)

~~~
diminoten
Yes, I did say I get that.

