
Trying to Convince People to Change (2016) - luu
http://www.camilletalk.com/whilefalse/2016/4/1/you-can-bring-a-horse-to-water
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quickthrower2
This is a good piece. Basically it is saying people aren't dumb. That person
you are trying to get to read the agile manifesto isn't not reading it because
they are lazy, stupid or arrogant. They've been around the block and know they
don't need it. Also not everyone wants to be the top player, and apply a
"growth mindset" and "can do attitude" to everything. They just want to be
paid to code without unnecessary invented hassles. Let them.

~~~
speedplane
> This is a good piece. ... That person you are trying to get to read the
> agile manifesto isn't not reading it because they are lazy, stupid or
> arrogant. They've been around the block and know they don't need it.

Being "around the block" is no excuse for not keeping up to date in your
profession. True, software development has faster hype cycles than other
professions such as medical or legal professions. However, just as experienced
doctors need to keep up to date with standards of care, software developers
also need to keep up with best practices.

The larger takeaway from this piece is that you don't need to read full books
to understand latest developments. A developer that knows 10 programming
languages does not need to read a 500 page book to learn their 11th language.
But they should read one or two articles, and try a tutorial to get what they
need from it.

Software development is a profession, and like every profession it's subject
to constant change. Keeping your head down and ignoring new developments is
simply malpractice.

~~~
moksly
> Being "around the block" is no excuse for not keeping up to date in your
> profession.

I work in the public sector where we both develop and buy software, and
because of this I get to sit at both ends of the negotiation table. Agile dies
the moment contract negotiations begin, because no one is actually going to
give you money to start building a house and see how much you finish before
you run out.

Maybe agile actually works somewhere in academia, a start up or deep inside
giant tech, but it sure isn’t how most of us buy software. We setup
requirements, detailed project plans, risk analysis and all those other things
the agile manifesto tells you not to. Sure we’ll call it agile, but it’s agile
in name only and by then we would probably have been better off if no one ever
read the damn thing.

~~~
speedplane
> I work in the public sector where we both develop and buy software ... Agile
> dies the moment contract negotiations begin

There's a pretty famous public sector counter example: the initial ObamaCare
website. The initial site was contracted out using traditional waterfall
development methodology and was a complete disaster. The rebuild was done with
a far smaller team, at a far lower budget using agile methodologies.

Things move pretty slowly in government, and I entirely understand that the
existing government processes with big lump sum payments and rigorous
accountability are not very conducive to agile development. However, it's not
impossible (as with ObamaCare, it has been done before). The next time you
have control over these negotiations, maybe push a bit harder for a more agile
approach and see if it works.

~~~
brandonb
(I worked on the HealthCare.gov rescue team.)

You have it right. We didn't explicitly follow the agile manifesto (or any
other manifesto), but we did focus on shipping working software incrementally.

There are successor organizations, like Nava and US Digital Service, that have
encoded principals and playbooks:
[https://playbook.cio.gov/](https://playbook.cio.gov/)

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bensonn
Do managers give books as a work assignments and provide time/place to read
the book. If you want an employee to "change the way they react to stress"
giving them 8 hours of voluntary (but not really) homework probably doesn't
help. If you want them to read it make it a required task and provide them
work time, otherwise management/company is expecting the employee to give up
personal/family time to read the book off the clock.

~~~
ken
In the USA, at least, they aren't required to provide a time/place, but they
would be required to compensate you for it, by the Fair Labor Standards Act
[1]. It sounds exactly like "Lectures, Meetings and Training Programs", which
means it qualifies as "working time". It's _on_ the clock.

[1]:
[https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.pdf](https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.pdf)

Schedule a workday to spend reading the book, or bill the company for taking
up half your weekend.

If this worker is in a union, this is precisely the sort of issue to take up
with the steward. Most programmers aren't, but apparently non-union workers
already have an "an open and direct dialogue" with their managers, though it's
kind of hard to tell if that's the case here since the manager is the one who
can't seem to schedule one simple task for the employee.

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baked_ziti
Is this appropriate behavior for managers? It seems not to me, but my
experience is limited. It seems to me that "convincing someone to change" is
inappropriate in just about, if not every, context and that being a manager
doesn't make it more appropriate, it just makes the appropriate feedback
(negative response, criticism) impossible.

If I found myself in this situation with a manager, I would ignore them to the
degree possible and failing that, avoid them entirely, whatever that meant.
Outside of a managerial context, I would just say something rude.

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mruts
If someone had given her a book and askes her to read it and “change” would
she? People always don’t understand why someone else can change while at the
same time feeling frustrated at their own ability to change. Turns out change
is _hard_ and handing someone a book and calling it a say doesn’t really cut
it.

Moreover, there’s probably a lot of things employees want to change about
their boss and yet, they never hand him a book. This leads to bosses thinking
the problems are never them.

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squarefoot
I had some troubles ages ago and one of my bosses hinted me to read the
Siddharta by Herman Hesse. Today I wouldn't remember a single word about the
book, but back then I liked it a lot although I experienced it from an atheist
point of view. Did it solve my problems? Not at all since most of them were
caused by a PM in the same company whose assholery was right on par with his
utter technical incompetence, but the suggestion by that boss may have helped
afterwards; who knows...

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spodek
I've learned to interpret the word _convince_ to mean _provoke debate_.

Influence, persuasion, and other forms of leadership rarely benefit from
convincing.

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soniman
A good joke to make the same point:

How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb? Just one, but only
if the lightbulb is willing to change.

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breadandcrumbel
My grandpa used to say

"No matter how much a snake sheds skin. It's still a snake"

~~~
southerndrift
But humans are not snakes.

But behavior is not a skin, but the core, unless it is an act.

~~~
dredmorbius
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor)

~~~
southerndrift
I know. Unfortunately, that metaphor is throwing the baby out with the bath
water.

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seer
I’v noticed this pattern with people in way more situations than just team
member - manager. Spouses, friends, colleagues etc are prone to just “suggest
reading a book” to solve an inter-personal problem.

And I’ve never seen this work in the slightest. Just anecdotal info I know,
but I do think its a general pattern.

If someone is disagreeing, and you ask them to “read a book to change their
mind” you basically ask them to admit they are not right and that you have
power over them. Two things that people don’t like in general.

And its pretty sad, because we are here in this civilization of ours mainly
because of books. Ideas that survive generations and mold societies. And
reading what someone else is really into is actually quite beneficial.

I personally try to at least skim through suggestions given from others, as
its such an awesome tool to understand where someone is coming from. And would
give you _much_ better leverage in any further interactions.

Even if its the fact that you’ve taken someone at their word to actually read
something, you gain a “favor” in negotiating terms. And you would also know
the language that the other person is thinking in.

Developers are very prone to “if everything else fails read the instructions”
kind of thinking, and book suggestions are basically instructions for people.
And I think the advice of being better off if you just try to read that works
in both cases, even if it goes against our natures.

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carapace
With the best kind of leaders / when the work is finished / the people all say
/ "we did it ourselves."

~Tao Te Ching

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alexashka
Imagine a software engineer giving his/her manager 'Learn python in 30 days'
so that he/she isn't clueless in her 'agile meetings' when interacting with
software developers.

How many managers would be willing to go through the book and do the
exercises? I don't know, not many :)

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kunkelast
You don't change people. You change the rules and they either adapt or find a
better place with better and more suitable rulles. This is what freedom is
about, and a good management.

I like this blog post about this problem:
[https://www.yegor256.com/2018/10/09/can-you-control-
us.html](https://www.yegor256.com/2018/10/09/can-you-control-us.html)

