
We changed our apply page to no longer allow students from windows - andrewfromx
https://higher.team/images/windows.png
======
gregjor
Do you require students to wear a hoodie too?

Since back-end web applications run on a server, not on laptops, it makes more
sense to work in that environment from the beginning. A web-based IDE like
Cloud 9 or CodeAnywhere with the LAMP environment (or whatever) already set up
would allow your students to get right to coding, without having to jump
through your phony hoops. You are imposing your idea of how "real developers"
work based on a small sample of hot VC-funded companies in the valley.

I know lots of serious developers and none of them run real applications on
their laptop. Few of them use desktop Linux. Web servers don't run GUI-based
operating systems. Forcing everyone to try to get your idea of a programming
environment running on their own laptop is just wasting time. It's the same as
being forced to install Flash to use a bank or airline web site.

Dismiss "legacy IT departments" all you want but there are 1,000 times more
jobs with real companies making money than there are at VC-funded startups in
SV. Maybe you don't think those jobs are sexy, but you're teaching people
habits and career strategies, not just programming.

I think you are already behind the curve with your Mac/Linux laptop
requirement. Google engineers use Chromebooks (so do I). Chromebooks and iPads
are the default in many schools. Those devices can be great for learning
programming and actually writing code.

Regardless of technical arguments about operating systems or stacks or what
venture capital firms fund (you really think they base those decisions on what
laptops the developers use?) your "amirite" dismissive tone is off-putting.
Good luck with that.

~~~
andrewfromx
gregjor, sir, I ask you, if you had 100's of people applying to your school
and you could filter it by a simple regex to remove all the non-serious
students from the list so you could pay attention to the serious students
wouldn't you use that filter? I'm not saying I won't help people on windows
machines. I'm saying their 1st assignment in our school would be to install
linux on that pc.

~~~
gregjor
Perhaps, if I thought anything in the browser headers indicated a serious or
non-serious student. I don't think user-agent meets that criteria.

If I had hundreds of people applying to my school I'd have a standard
development environment set up for them so they could connect to it remotely,
regardless of what brand of laptop they own or which OS they happen to have.
That way they could start learning to program -- what they are paying for --
rather than spending a frustrating hour or two trying to install Linux, or in
the case of MacOS trying to deal with the versions of Apache and PHP and MySQL
Apple installs.

I've been to classes that start with "install Linux" and what happens is the
first day is wasted while one or two people struggle getting wi-fi or their
mouse to work, or don't have enough disk space, or whatever. It's a waste of
my time. That's why public and private schools are adopting Chromebooks.

If you look around you'll see quite a few developers using a Surface Pro these
days, since it's lighter than a Mac and can run Windows apps, which is a
requirement for a lot of jobs and some schools. Two of my kids must use
Windows for their college classes and job. Should they (or I) have to buy a
Mac just to go to your school?

~~~
andrewfromx
If you can't google how to install
[https://www.virtualbox.org](https://www.virtualbox.org) on your windows
machine and get a linux VM up that'a okay. But that's step 1. And I will help
the student do this. But stop pretending like it's bad teaching to make this
step 1. This is great teaching. Getting a degree from HDT means when you
graduate you will be a linux expert. You can't become a linux expert without
taking that 1st baby step of leaving windows.

~~~
gregjor
Did you post on HN to get comments and criticism from other professionals? To
drum up business for a $50K programming course? Or to troll?

If anyone wants to sit next to me for two years learning Linux, PHP, MySQL,
HTML, Javascript, etc. I'll teach you all that for less than $50K, and you can
live in a fun exotic city that costs 1/5th LA prices. You'll get to work on
REAL applications for REAL companies and even learn how to freelance and get
customers. I'll even make an (unaccredited) degree for you.

~~~
andrewfromx
go for it! I'll be happy to list your school on
[https://higher.team/tier1-tier2-tier3-code-
schools](https://higher.team/tier1-tier2-tier3-code-schools)

------
jareds
As a blind person I'm glad I have no need for your course since I already know
how to program. Linux accessibility is a giant pain for most blind people.
While the Mac is accessible your looking at a $1000 entry price compared to
$500 for a Windows laptop with a free screen reader. Never assume you know
best, people like me have good reasons for using Windows.

~~~
andrewfromx
"Never assume you know best" well I'm sorry but I'm not trying to make a
school that caters to every single person's personal issues. I'm trying to
create a leading silicon valley / silicon beach code school where the best of
the best go. Being blind has lots of limitations I'm afraid. I would tell my
own son this if he was blind too. And I do know the best about _this_ issue.
I've taught 100's of people coding and trying to do it on a Mac is much more
efficient. I have not had a single blind student yet.

~~~
jareds
Please list the limitations you know so much about? Your sample size is far to
small to make any generalizations about what blind people can and can not do
just because you have not taught any blind students. Also read up on WSL, it's
pretty good.

------
tedyoung
As an educator, your lack of empathy for your (potential) students would
greatly concern me regarding your ability to teach people from where they are,
instead of what's easy for you. But that's fine, I'd be happy to teach folks
who simply want to learn, regardless of what their hardware situation is.

~~~
andrewfromx
I aded this to page: BTW This is not saying we will not teach you. We still
want you to apply. And installing linux on your pc is a great first
assignment. Seriously, our teaching style is we through you into a working web
company as an intern. If you were to show up for your first day with a windows
laptop, your very first assignment would be put linux on it. You will learn a
lot doing this. But this thread on hackernews makes it seem like I hate
windows people and don't want to teach them. This is not true. Just complete
assignment 1 and you can apply.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
This is the height of arrogance. I cannot express how offensive it seems.

------
jerryszczerry
Nice.

I'd change it, though, so it would disallow both Windows and OSX.

~~~
andrewfromx
I do believe this is the first positive comments on this thread! 3 points here
we come.

------
andrewclunn
Developer, and long time BSD user who has dabbled in linux. I keep trying to
get away from Windows, but it keeps being something I have to use for work. So
many businesses use C# and Microsoft SQL Server for their back ends, and IE 11
support is the bane of my existence for web development. Maybe it's different
in southern California, but everywhere else Windows is still king.

~~~
andrewfromx
anyone who gets VC funding from a major Silicon Valley fund, uses linux and
mysql, and no ms sql server or IIS or any of that _legacy_ stuff. I want to
teach people coding so they are ready to go for work major Silicon Valley
companies, not legacy it departments.

~~~
olgeni
With all that funding they might as well afford a proper PostgreSQL license.

~~~
andrewfromx
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12166585](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12166585)

------
mneil
It's your site, do what you want.

Wamp.

I don't dual-boot or open a VM to browse HN.

~~~
andrewfromx
it's just the /apply url that does the windows check. the rest of the site can
be viewed from any os.

~~~
detaro
You should probably change that to the entire site, so people know about this
idiocy immediately and don't waste time with you.

~~~
andrewfromx
I think you are missing the point. 100s of people are applying. When they get
into the school 10% have a pc not a Mac. It's not worth that 10%. I'm going to
teach the other 90% that have Macs already. That's plenty of students. Why
would it be wasting time with me? I'm a great teacher and coder.

------
robschia
Pretty hardcore.

~~~
andrewfromx
it's just not worth it. if they are serious about learning to code, step 1 is
linux or Mac not windows, am I rite?

~~~
dmarlow
"learning to code"

I didn't know specific OSes were required to learn to code.

"am I rite?"

No. Clearly you need a source and I have a feeling you're not going to find
one.

Your childish tone may prove to gain you favor with other myopic people, but
you sound like the people I wouldn't want as a teammate, don't worry, you'll
get some interested people, but they'll be just like you, but maybe you won't
notice.

~~~
andrewfromx
dude, wtf? I've worked all over the industry and hating on windows is just
normal. Like everyone uses Macs and a few geeks use linux but no serious
programer uses windows. this is just fact. Our biggest competitor
[https://www.turing.io](https://www.turing.io) sells students new macs.

~~~
house9-2
> Like everyone uses Macs and a few geeks use linux but no serious programer
> uses windows.

This statement is false, you might need to take a look outside of your bubble
- it is a big wide world out there.

> dude, wtf? I've worked all over the industry and hating on windows is just
> normal.

And this makes it ok how?

I haven't 'worked all over the industry' but I have been building web
applications for over 15 years using various technologies and on different OS.
They all have their warts and they all shine in different ways.

~~~
andrewfromx
anyone who gets VC funding from a major Silicon Valley fund, uses linux and
mysql, and no ms sql server or IIS or any of that _legacy_ stuff. I want to
teach people coding so they are ready to go for work major Silicon Valley
companies, not legacy it departments. it makes it ok because this is what
students needs to be taught to the right jobs. I cannot tell a student it's a
good idea to learn C# or MS SQL Server when I fundamentally don't believe it
is.

~~~
everyone
Andrew, nothing to do with windows or the article. But your attitude in the
comments.. You seem to have a very close minded and insular view, it disturbs
me that someone with such a view is in a position to teach. Perhaps try and
think outside of the silicon valley VC startup web-app bubble, otherwise when
it pops (which it has in the past) you will be in for quite a shock.

~~~
andrewfromx
I added this to the page: BTW This is not saying we will not teach you. We
still want you to apply. And installing linux on your pc is a great first
assignment. Seriously, our teaching style is we through you into a working web
company as an intern. If you were to show up for your first day with a windows
laptop, your very first assignment would be put linux on it. You will learn a
lot doing this. But <a
href="[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13399445">this](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13399445">this)
thread on hackernews</a> makes it seem like I hate windows people and don't
want to teach them. This is not true. Just complete assignment 1 and you can
apply.

------
lazylizard
they think people browse to their /apply page from a webserver?

~~~
andrewfromx
huh? we think people goto our /apply page all the time from browsers. those
browsers send a field called user-agent that contains information about what
operating system that browser is running on.

~~~
lazylizard
not that. say my webservers run centos or rh. my desktops are mostly windows.
i remote to my webservers, dev or staging or production, to do stuff. and
actually they don't have desktops installed. none of my machines can visit
that /apply page then. if someone runs windows on their desktop and uses
vagrant to launch their dev/test instance it'd probably be headless too.
windows desktops have ms office and can play direct x games. unless u want to
force people to choose between a linux desktop and not applying. thats ok too.

~~~
andrewfromx
think of it like a test. Say you are on windows and goto higher.team/apply and
get the windows message and really want to apply to the school. How could they
quickly get around the user-agent check?
[https://www.virtualbox.org](https://www.virtualbox.org) and
[https://elementary.io](https://elementary.io) would work right?

------
DanBC
Replying to an old thread of yours:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13188673](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13188673)

That item handles mains voltage. Do not modify it. If you really need to
modify it find a competent person to cut off the 3 prong mains plug, shorten
the cable, and fit a new plug. The new plug will be ugly. A competent person
is anyone who repairs electrical items - washing machine repair people for
example. But, mostly, don't modify it.

~~~
andrewfromx
I agree I know very little about electricity and current, voltage, amps, all
that stuff. I don't really grok it. But code I get. Why are you replying to an
old thread of mine here?

~~~
DanBC
I didn't want you to kill yourself or others by electrocution or house fire
because you fiddled around with a cable designed and built to meet some
important safety specifications.

~~~
andrewfromx
thank you! it was a close one.

