
The Microsoft Surface Book Review - vinhnx
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9767/microsoft-surface-book-2015-review
======
mands
Looks like great hardware let down by poor software.

I just gave Windows 10 another try with a view to purchasing a Surface 4 if
successful (OneNote + Stylus = :)) - but after a few weeks reverted back to
Linux (Fedora).

Apart from the inferior development experience (outside of VS - which is top-
notch), there are just too many bugs, unfinished pieces and a general lack of
polish. Updates wouldn't install, the Store kept crashing/disappearing, Modern
Apps would interact badly with virtual desktops.

Win 10 should never have been released in such a state. I'm hoping the
Threshold release out this week will go some ways to repairing the damage and
presume will be a better fit for the Surface Book.

Maybe I'll look at the Surface line again in a few months.

~~~
josefresco
Anecdotally, I've used every Windows release since 3.1 and Windows 10 is
pretty much on par with Windows 7/8\. I don't have updates that fail, I don't
have store apps crash (not that I use them) and generally think the polish is
on par with most Windows releases over the years - which is to say, it's ..
meh. I didn't even have a problem with Windows 8, because like most
professionals, I don't live in the start menu, don't use touch apps and
generally use Windows to just get shit done which means most of my time is
spent within the application (which is what an OS should do right?)

I do think that if I switched to Linux for "a few weeks" I'd have the exact
same reaction as a Linux user switching to Windows. In fact, this is how I've
_used_ Linux for the last 15 years and pretty much every experience since 2000
has been just that "it's nice but lacking polish".

Everyone has their own favorite flavor of OS, Windows 10 is no better or worse
than previous releases.

~~~
baldfat
I think it has 100% to do with what is your purpose.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my OpenSUSE desktops. I have a tiled window manager with
means zero menus. Everything is shortcut keys (The way I use Windows 8).
Windows PowerShell and CMD are catching up SLOWLY but I love my rxvt-unicode
terminal. I love using Ranger (Comand line file manager) and VIM works
perfectly.

People need to stop seeing Fedora as anything but a test bed for Red Hat and
use another distro. Fedora is always unpolished and has a ton of hiccups. (My
own biased opinion)

Windows at work stinks (I use 2 desktop computers that are Linux) one laptop
Windows 7 and one desktop Windows 8. I have issues with updates on both
windows machines and they are a PAIN to fix. It gets permissions wrong all the
time and I can actually be locked out of removing icons from my desktops let
alone the horrible exchange server. So I got permission to use Linux since I
get things done much fast on it. Also the email gets blocked due to spam from
all the stupid stuff my co-workers do.

My personal computer at home has not been able to upgrade to Windows 8.1 and
my 8.0 won't install more updates. (Wife HATES Tiled Window Managers and hates
when she has to switch between Windows 7 or Windows 8 or KDE). My memory gets
used up all the time and I can't htop in command line and kill apps. I have to
three finger salute and wait for the graphical interface to kick in. Hangs and
is sluggish at random times. Still prefer Windows to OS X just for sane OS
grammar sake.

~~~
vetinari
Actually, out of the box, the last few Fedora releases (22, 23) are way more
polished than RHEL 7.

It does not change the fact that they are testbeds, but the Gnome 3 did really
wonders.

~~~
baldfat
Might just give a VM a test. I still can't find a better balanced distro for
Linux in terms of stability and packages. Zypper package manager is best in
class and the build.opensuse.org is lightyears ahead of ppa.

------
red_admiral
"Since this is a device from Microsoft, you get zero bloatware installed."

A very strong selling point for the Surface family, in my opinion.

~~~
mark_l_watson
Pro tip: you should always buy Windows laptops, etc. directly from the
Microsoft store. Their signature branding for many other manufacturers's
products means that they sell for about the same price, but with no crapware.

~~~
bkjelden
I feel like there should be a case study in every MBA program in the country
using Microsoft as an example of what happens when you let a partner control
the 'last mile' of your user experience - and consequently, your brand.

For _years_ the Windows experience was completely ruined by hardware
manufacturers pre-loading laptops with a ton of very poorly developed
software. It's a night and day difference.

~~~
atomicUpdate
There's also Android and what the cell carriers are doing it with regards to
bloatware and security updates to use as another source of material.

~~~
bkjelden
good point - they are facing a similar problem.

in some ways, android has it worse, because they have to deal with hardware
vendors _and_ carriers

------
hitgeek
i was a 100% windows user for a long time, even had a Windows phone in the
blackberry era. Decided to switch to Apple after using iPhone 4 and original
iPad. Bought Macbook 4 years ago and with an SSD and RAM upgrade its still
great.

Gave microsoft a second chance with the flagship Lumia Windows Phone 7, and
Surface RT, because I was primarily a windows dev. Needless to say, I was
burned on both of those devices (buggy, very poor and limited apps, and
microsoft basically gave up on both platforms within 2 years). I've since
purchased an iMac, two more iPhones, and a new iPad

Looking at some of the early problems with the Surface Book, I'm worried
microsoft is going to drive more users away.

~~~
intended
I think it's worth remembering that MSFT should consider itself lucky, that it
has customers to drive away.

The pro 1 came out only a just few short years ago, and they wrote down a lot
of that product.

It's really weird to say this about the guys who once were called the Borg,
but I have faith in their design team.

Sadly they seem to be creating an expectation that one should wait for the 3rd
device in a series.

~~~
radiorental
Perfect is the enemy of done

From a business perspective - the end result is the same. Whether you wait for
Steve to stop barking say 'ship it'. Or you ship when it's 'good enough. Apple
knew where the hockey puck was heading as early as the mid 90's [1] and could
probably have shipped something better than the Newton but before the iPhone.
They were touch and go there for a while.

Microsoft can afford to ship first and ask questions later. The end result in
terms of getting the product right within a given timeframe is the same.

[1][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPS1DMlzz0M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPS1DMlzz0M)

------
Cyph0n
Upto 15 hours of battery life for light usage? Now that's impressive! I wonder
how the i5 compares to the latest MacBook Air.

~~~
mrmondo
Is it though? I get that from my base model MacBook (2015).

~~~
mcintyre1994
Isn't this device immensely more powerful than that? You're comparing a Core M
to i series, integrated weak GPU to powerful dedicated GPU, Surface Book has a
larger higher resolution display - to be comparable seems incredible.
Admittedly Surface Book has a lot more space/weight for battery so it's not
really a fair comparison either way you look at it.

I'd be amazed if I could get my rMBP (2015) to pull 15 hours though which
seems like a fair comparison on most fronts, so I'm definitely impressed.

~~~
rayiner
On Ars's reviews, the i5 Surface Book got 749 minutes in the light wifi
browsing test, and the 2015 rMBP 13" got 794 minutes.

~~~
mcintyre1994
Thanks for pointing this out, my relative comparison is obviously off. I stand
by the comment that the rMBP is the right comparison but presumably the 2015
Macbook would do even better in that test.

------
praveenster
tl;dr "The hardware and build quality is very good. Performance is fantastic.
Software on the Surface Book is a let down. The first firmware update fixed a
lot, but there are still too many outstanding issues to recommend the Surface
Book at this time."

~~~
emehrkay
I got to play with one in best buy the other day. The hardware is pretty damn
good. It is a lot thinner than I expected. It isn't too bad to hold as a
stand-alone tablet either. I was having issues with ejecting the tablet from
the base though. It felt like I was trying to break the thing. The keyboard
and trackpad seem fine and very macbook-like. This seems to be a very good
machine for a Windows user (I'm not the target demo). My son wondered about
its gaming capabilities lol.

------
intrasight
While I am indeed disappointed by the technical issues being reported for the
new MSFT devices, I still applaud them for some outstanding engineering. I am
considering the Book or Surface Pro 4 as a desktop replacement. But frankly I
don't consider it a good value. I'll stick with my 5 year old desktop, which
gets a respectable 7.3 experience index. What I REALLY would like is a Windows
10 tablet in the 9"-10" range and in the $400 range. Perhaps there'll be a
Black Friday sale on the Surface Pro 3.

~~~
phonon
Boom. [http://www.fudzilla.com/reviews/39204-cube-i7-stylus-
tablet-...](http://www.fudzilla.com/reviews/39204-cube-i7-stylus-tablet-
reviewed) [http://www.gearbest.com/tablet-
pcs/pp_227132.html](http://www.gearbest.com/tablet-pcs/pp_227132.html)

~~~
bebna
Can you install linux or is the bios locked down?

------
yasky
A laptop that doesn't have great trackpad interface is a non-starter. Really
looking forward to trying out the Microsoft laptop in person. But still using
my 2010 macbook pro and smooth-as-glass scrolling is a minimum bar.

~~~
josefresco
From the article:

"The other half of the typical notebook interaction is done with the trackpad,
and here Microsoft has delivered one of the best trackpads on any Windows PC."

"With that one quirk aside, anyone who uses a Surface Book is likely going to
be very happy with the trackpad experience."

"The surface is glass, which makes it very smooth and easy to glide your
finger over."

~~~
tothepixel
The scrolling in Chrome is a major concern for me though. After using Apple
trackpads it is downright painful to use Windows hardware and scrolling.
Microsoft needs to nail these software issues in order to compete, because in
terms of hardware, they're vastly superior to Apple right now. I hope they
don't squander that advantage.

~~~
josefresco
Scrolling between browsers always seems like an issue for me, even with a
mouse. I'll configure Firefox, and then Chrome/IE/Safari will be too fast or
not fast enough.

------
soylentcola
I know this is nitpicking and borderline off topic, but does the white balance
on those photos look so far off that it's distracting to anyone else?

------
kevingadd
I got a Surface Book on launch day (one of the i7s with an nvidia GPU). A
rough summary:

Good:

* The build quality is stellar.

* Having the CPU in the screen means the keyboard never gets uncomfortably hot, even when running games. Very comfortable.

* Pretty fast CPU.

* The SSD is obscenely fast, I can get more than 1gb/s on sequential reads. Wish I got that kind of performance in my desktop.

* All the custom hardware integration (the latch, rotation, tablet mode, etc) is pretty robust.

* Good touchpad and pretty decent keyboard.

* Great battery life. When I'm reading ebooks or news I can easily get 5hrs out of the tablet; the laptop mode lasts way longer than that. The numbers in the Anandtech review are pretty representative. Playing Armello on the tablet gets a few hours battery life; I'd probably get 5+ using Steam In-home Streaming.

* When the fan is running (high cpu load, etc) it's very, very quiet. This is the quietest laptop I've ever owned.

* The external port dock is pretty convenient.

* The charging connector is magsafe-style and it's already saved me from a couple nasty incidents.

* You can charge the tablet by itself if you want to.

* The pen and digitizer are great. I have a pretty reasonable time doing web browsing, email and IM on the tablet using the pen to write. The quality of the pressure sensitivity and precision tracking on the pen is pretty good.

* The iGPU is actually (though still only somewhat) up to the challenge of driving the panel at full DPI. Past high-DPI laptops I've owned had Intel GPUs that were clearly not up to the task of compositing the whole screen at 60hz while rendering webpages.

* Considering the problems I've had with the device, Microsoft customer support has been helpful and responsive.

Bad:

* In general the Surface Book and its accessories are just too expensive.

* Intel's video drivers are a goddamn trainwreck. It's an embarrassment. I've had more BSODs (all in the Intel drivers) and TDRs (at least a dozen video driver resets) in the couple weeks I've owned this thing than I've had all year on my desktop. When you're using the NVIDIA GPU in the keyboard things are pretty solid, except that Intel's surface sharing implementation is also totally hosed so vsync doesn't work right. :(

* The WiFi drivers (and probably some other device - I haven't figured out how to profile windows user-mode drivers) are really terrible, they burn a ridiculous amount of CPU and cause latency spikes that make audio hitch. The ethernet in the port dock is fine, at least.

* The cable on the port dock is too short and it's actually quite inconvenient.

* The keyboard/tablet latch requires ever so slightly too much force to remove - It's pretty hard to do one-handed without lifting the whole device. (Very easy with two hands, though.)

* The Fn-lock setup on the keyboard is an annoyance (but not remotely as bad as past Microsoft keyboards with this design)

* Microsoft hosed palm detection for pen input in Win10 and it's a real annoyance. It's not as good as it was in 8.

* The touchpad drivers don't have adjustments for things like palm detection.

* The weight balance between keyboard/tablet is ever so slightly off, such that if you fully extend the screen it tilts backward a little. Not a problem when typing, but it makes me nervous :-)

~~~
nicolapede
> * You can charge the tablet by itself if you want to.

What you mean by that?

~~~
kevingadd
There's a surface connector on the tablet, just like on the base. So if you've
been using the tablet you can plug it in to the charger directly and keep
using it. (Not sure I'd ever do this...)

------
thebouv
I've been drooling over getting one of these but the cost kind of keeps me
away. However, I think I am going to try and track down a Surface 3 which is
hopefully a bit cheaper now with the 4/Book out.

------
AdmiralAsshat
Since Microsoft is clearly aiming at this to be a Macbook killer, it would be
nice if the performance comparisons included the various Macbook models.

------
brokentone
"It’s not light, especially if you consider 3.34-3.48 lbs (1.51-1.58kg)
heavy." Interesting tautology.

------
annacollins
In tablet mode, the Surface Book is thin and light, and the new Pen is quite
responsive.

------
rasz_pl
I just love how Intel sells dual core as an "i7".

------
mtgx
Why not just make it a laptop for significantly less? The tablet thing is
mostly a gimmick.

~~~
BorgHunter
One person's gimmick is another person's killer feature. Say what you will
about the usefulness of the convertible nature of the Surface Book, but it is
thoroughly and competently engineered (unlike some other entries in this
space). And if people find a competent convertible to be useful, they'll buy
it.

~~~
kevingadd
It makes a great ebook/email/news reader and that's one of the reasons I like
the tablet. I can also use it to do steam in-home streaming or watch a movie.

On the other hand, I'm not the sort of person who would buy a dedicated tablet
otherwise. I can't stand owning a bunch of devices.

------
drcode
If I pay a gorgeous screen, I want that screen CLOSE to me, so I can benefit
from it as much as possible. I'm not sure how I feel about a notebook that
advertises "Look at our awesome hinge that moves the screen as far from you as
possible!"

~~~
tothepixel
Are you really complaining about the screen being set back by 1"?

~~~
drcode
I actually think most laptops have the screen weirdly far away from the user-
The only recent laptop that I really like for this reason is the Aspire Switch
12, which is an absolutely superb laptop:

[http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/series/aspireswitch12](http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/series/aspireswitch12)

------
skellington
I checked it out at the MS store and it's fine. It doesn't have the aesthetic
design perfection of a macbook and the hinge is awkward, but if you want a
windows machine it seems like a good option.

I won't buy any MS devices though because they are incredibly buggy (in my
experience). I have a surface and it has so many irritating bugs (mostly
related to power management) that I hate it now. Many of the surfaces in the
MS store were unusable due to various bugs. I know people bang on them hard in
the store, but I never ran into a macbook in an apple store that didn't work
as expected.

