

Give me your tired, your poor...doctoral candidates - iamelgringo
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2008/07/give_me_your_tired_your_poordo.cfm

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timr
When I read this, all I could think was: _"we need fewer graduate students"_.

Want to know why American students don't enter PhD programs? Ask one: to get a
PhD in this country, you must forgo five or more years of income and savings,
live like a pauper, and lose many opportunities for early career development.
Meanwhile, you get to watch your undergraduate classmates buy cars and houses,
take authority roles in their companies, and accumulate significant retirement
savings.

And what do you get in exchange? The obligation to work long hours for 3-5
_more_ years, in a $40k/year post-doc (usually in an expensive city), with the
long-shot possibility of finding a professorship _somewhere_ (hopefully,
somewhere near your spouse!) There, you'll work your ass off for _six more_
years, in the hopes of not being _permanently fired_ from the only job that
you're qualified to do. And as an extra-special bonus, your job security rests
largely on your ability to beg for money from the government...here's hoping
that the NIH/NSF/DOE/DOJ grant budgets don't decline!

Is it _really_ any wonder that Americans don't want these gigs? The economics
of the professorship don't make sense for people from an affluent society. If
you want more American students to take an interest in academia, you've got to
stop flooding the market with cheap labor.

~~~
eugenejen
"Is it really any wonder that Americans don't want these gigs? The economics
of the professorship don't make sense for people from an affluent society. If
you want more American students to take an interest in academia, you've got to
stop flooding the market with cheap labor."

I agree with you the problem is demand and supply mismatching. But the current
system is built on the demand of cold war. After cold war, most of the demand
disappear.

It is another good lesson of governments have absolutely power to distort
demand and supply of market.

So one way to solve the problem is to increase demands for graduate students.
But I think so far no one has idea how to do that. The money and time lost in
graduate school is almost the same as running start ups. But the payout for
startup maybe better than graduate school.

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incomethax
So of the increasingly fragmented population, one Chinese University has
slightly more phD candidates than any other university.

Can't say that it really surprises me. What does surprise me is that the
economist picked this up; generally their more 'internationally neutral' than
blatantly pro-US.

~~~
eugenejen
Well, if U.S. has an advantage in an overlooked area by general public and
someone in the Economist points out, then the author is "blatantly pro-US"?

At the other hand. A better question to ask to anyone from Europe is: if there
are good universities in England, France and Germany, then why students from
these 2 top universities in China are not going there?

Is it because language barrier? Is it the economic prospect of Europe not
viewed as good as U.S.? Are immigration regulations more restricted in Europe
when they finish school and decide to stay instead of going back to China? Or
do universities in those countries not accept more foreign students than local
students? Do in general those countries have problems with immigrants and
those student feel unwanted or discriminated? Or do universities in those
countries forge good relationships with the two universities in China?

U.S. is not perfect in every aspect. But I don't like the idea when anyone
points out its advantages then he/she should be labeled as "blatantly pro-US".

~~~
pchristensen
I used to live in Sweden (I'm American). Sweden is supposedly one of the most
immigrant-friendly nations in Europe and even they are getting worn down by
the non-integrated immigrant population (1 million out of 9 million total
population). Swedes speak English exceptionally well which is the only foreign
language most foreigners know (no one comes in knowing Swedish). The extra
layer of language barrier is an issue (for Swedes and immigrants).

For a highly trained (grad school+) immigrant, being limited to one small
nation was a big limitation (this was before the common EU passport).

As far as preparation for world business, I can't see why any Chinese student
would want to learn anything but English.

No idea how immigration status changes post-graduation. Universities were free
(or if you prefer, included in everyone's taxes).

