
On Marrying the Wrong Person - zbravo
http://www.thebookoflife.org/how-we-end-up-marrying-the-wrong-people/
======
santaclause33
Three notes I would add:

1) In response to the "know yourself" bullet: I met my now wife at 15 - we
learned a lot about ourselves between then and when we married at age 22. But
we were pretty much committed to marrying by age 18, even though we learned a
lot after. You can learn with another person.

2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement
of a bunch of points in the article): if someone is behaving irrationally, 99%
of the time its because they are subconciously insecure about something.

3) The odds of first marriage are better than 50/50\. That statistic is for
total marriages, but people who divorce once on average divorce multiple
times. Success rate of first marriage is something like 65%. Also, that
success rate goes higher if you're high income, like most of HN.

~~~
zxcvvcxz
> 2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement
> of a bunch of points in the article): if someone is behaving irrationally,
> 99% of the time its because they are subconciously insecure about something.

How about the possibility that they are tired of their partner? The
irrationality might come from the fact that they are bound to them (e.g.
marriage) and feel pressure to not break that apart. That'd be quite an
internal conflict, and might produce irrational behavior.

If this is a possible explanation (I've seen it many times at least), do you
really think it's an only 1% of the time cause? I think that's being
unrealistically optimistic. Because then your narrative sounds very convenient
and comforting: "Oh, I just have to help them get over their insecurities and
it's happily ever after." Not to be a downer, but I think people need to be
more realistic about these things so they have better odds of finding a
partner with which they have a good dynamic.

(It's kind of like being stuck at a job you don't like, but you need the
money. That's bad for both the employee and the business.)

~~~
grahamburger
But of course you could take a step back and ask why they're tired of their
partner. Sometimes that's a result of an internal insecurity, too.

Put another way, you might say that a person who is 'tired' of their partner
is in some perhaps fixable way insecure about the relationship itself, of
which they are a part.

~~~
hammock
So if every (or most) relationships are fixable, what does it matter who you
pick as partner?

~~~
ph0rque
You've discovered the secret! It doesn't.

~~~
StavrosK
It may not matter whether you can make it work, but it'll matter if you're
having fun while you're trying...

~~~
nostrademons
You can have fun with a wide variety of people. It may require letting go of
your preconceived notions of "fun" and being open to new experiences, though.

~~~
chrstphrhrt
I used to think this way, but what happens when they become dependent on you
for emotional/financial/whatever sustenance?

I think those who are 'fun' to 'fix' are therefore at risk of dependency on
that. Like a drug.

~~~
nostrademons
"Have fun" != "fix". If those concepts are crossed in your mind, that could be
part of the problem. Just don't date the people who need fixing - or if you
do, make it clear that _they_ are responsible for fixing themselves and you're
not going to do it for them.

There are lots of people in this world who don't need fixing and can be quite
fun to hang with.

------
zxcvvcxz
Here's an uncomfortable thought: an effective 1-to-1 mapping between men and
women probably doesn't exist.

The fact of the matter is that women are primarily interested in a top smaller
percentage of high value men (this is called hypergamy). This smaller group of
desirable men would most like to have multiple mates (this is called
polygamy). Marriage, and the accompanying culture and customs, 'corrects' this
by trying to create a 1-to-1 mapping. Both extreme strategies described are
traditionally shamed and discouraged.

Why? Because marriage (monogamous long-term bonding) is good for society. It
incentivizes the largest amount of people to be productive, and reduces civil
unrest by distributing sexual access to women across as many men as possible.
For more on sex and society, check out J.D. Unwin:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Unwin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Unwin)

Now, how this relates to the OP. The fact of the matter is that people become
unhappy in a relationship of any kind when they think they are getting the
short end of the stick, and could be doing better. They'll rationalize it six
ways to Sunday, "my partner doesn't understand me", "my partner smothers me",
"they don't do enough chores", "we don't understand ourselves", whatever, but
at the end of the day they think they ought to have a better mate, and are fed
up with their current one!

This is especially true of women, who, by pure numerical inevitability,
largely marry below what they would prefer. We know that women initiate most
divorces too, at ~70% (fun fact: among college-eduated couples, that number
rises to 90%). A smaller amount of men end up locked to one person too, when
they know in another world they could have more mates. Such are the sacrifices
for the monogamous society (often referred to as patriarchal, because women
are more sexually restricted).

So in conclusion, what bothers me about articles like this, who delve deep
into rationalizations instead of simple mate value and attractiveness, is the
implication of a 1-to-1 mapping between men and women. Is there a right person
to marry, for most people? Probably not.

~~~
bambax
Yes, monogamy is usually framed as being good for women and detrimental to men
when in fact it's been invented so that non-alpha males could mate; in a
"natural" world, most (all) women would mate with the alpha male of the group,
and all other males would not mate at all.

Therefore it shouldn't be unexpected that women who didn't get to marry the
alpha male, are unhappy and eventually want out.

~~~
awl130
ironically, women's empowerment could eventually lead a society back to pre-
historic times in a genetic sense. imagine a society where women no longer
need husbands or fathers for either income or childcare (which is the current
trend in the OECD). imagine further that there is no more stigma towards
artificial insemination. then women will pick the fittest sperm from the bank
(let's say an Olympic athlete with a Nobel Prize). thus we have reverted back
to a time when the alpha males sire a far greater proportion of progeny. what
kinds of long term effects are there on a society's gene pool? does this
society then have less diversity, and thus decreased overall fitness as a
whole?

what happens to the vast majority of prospectless men? mass immigration of
females is one solution. but eventually the donor country will bar them from
doing so. so imagine a country where 80% of single men will not get a chance
to produce offspring. is that a recipe for civil unrest?

without any traditional patriarchy, it is in the female's best interest to get
inseminated by multiple alphas. maybe there will be a social movement that
that says for every alpha baby, a female must bear a baby with her beta
partner?

~~~
IndianAstronaut
One thing people forget is that in historical societies, the number of men
would be less than women. This is due to war, other violence against men, etc.
This left surplus women who were more inclined to the alpha males/royalty and
fewer men without partners.

------
cmollis
That's a pretty insightful article. I wish I had that 20 years ago when I met
my future ex-wife. Let's review my list:

1\. we don't understand ourselves. (check.. plus). At least not then. 2\. we
don't understand other people. (check). I interpreted them as what I wanted
them to be, not as they were. Note: all the little foibles and peccadilloes
will add up. 3\. we aren't used to being happy. (check). I was driven then and
had been for so long. Suffering to me was success so being with an extremely
difficult person was actually 'comfortable'.. or at least familiar. 4\. being
single is so awful. (no check). Being single was great then and now. (but it's
harder with three kids..) Looking back, I was single living in NY..and have
absolutely no idea why I got married... But this leads to.. 5\. Instinct has
too much Prestige. (CHECK CHECK). Love this line (and maybe I'm just too
stupid to really know what it means), but I interpret it as 'I know what's
right' (ostensibly). I really thought I knew what I was doing.. I was always
such a know-it-all, did absolutely no homework on what really binds two people
together and.. there you go.

~~~
nugget
How long were you married for and what was the final nail in the coffin?

It seems like there's never been a better time to be single, especially if
you're living in one of the major cities. I have a lot of friends who say the
same thing you said, having ''no idea'' why they got married; and when they
say it they look truly befuddled as if they just woke up one day and
accidentally found themselves in such a state.

~~~
cmollis
I was married 15 years total.. the final nail was probably in the 10th year, I
would say. In truth, having 'no idea' is wrong.. it's just that I had the
wrong idea;).

------
splintercell
The single most awful thing people do is treat love as an 'emotional' affair,
something which is beyond reason. That when it happens, it happens, and when
you're in a relationship, you must at all cost keep maintaining the sense of
euphoria or else everything will be gone.

This would be equivalent of starting a business with someone not on the basis
of the value proposition of the business, but based on how you emotionally
like the idea, and then hiding all the losses and constantly trying to achieve
the initial profit you saw.

~~~
k__
After two failed relationships I started to treat love as a logical decision.

I stopped calling the feeling I get when meeting a new person I get attracted
to as love. You know, "having a crush" on someone, wearing the pink-
sunglasses, butterflies in the belly, or whatever they call it. Love is still
about feelings for me, but about other feelings than those.

It's about being able to completely trust each other. About sharing
experiences. About understanding. About learning and growing together. These
are the things that make me continuously happy in a relationship for long
time.

------
philovivero
This is a great article. There are some things it doesn't point out.

1) Marriage is a contract, but unlike most contracts, its terms and conditions
can change at any time without the consent or knowledge of either party. That
is to say, politicians decide the terms and conditions, and your marriage
isn't grandfathered through with the laws in place at the time it was
consummated.

2) As of today, the outcome of divorce (how assets are distributed) is
overwhelmingly in favor of the female, assuming a mixed-gender marriage. This
is one of the reasons for the large gap in divorce initiations: women profit
far more, and thus more often end the marriage.

There are a couple more conclusions you can draw about whether you should do
more due diligence on the person you're about to marry.

1) If you're female, you can be far less concerned. If it turns out to be the
wrong guy, just divorce him. If anything, you'll get assets and a livable wage
for no effort for years.

2) If you're male, you should be far more concerned. You need to do 10-50x
more work vetting your future partner than your parents and grandparents did.

3) The divorce laws in 5 years may be completely different than today. Be sure
to plan for how the political climate will change in the future.

I have been married more than once, so as you can imagine, I've had to put a
lot of thought into this matter. The marriage that ended is responsible for
reducing my wages, which should lead me to living comfortably in San
Francisco, to being required to live with roommates. There is a large amount
of danger involved in marriage, so make sure you understand the dangers before
pulling the trigger.

EDIT: The reduction in income also has prevented me from working at several
really great startups and instead having to slave at more profitable companies
like ad networks etc. These go against my moral compass, so for me, at least,
divorce also led to me having to contribute to increasing evil in the world.
This is a huge personal hit that is hard to understate.

------
gyardley
For men who had a bit of an awkward childhood (like, say, me, and perhaps some
of you as well), perhaps the most important bit of advice about marriage is
that your first serious relationship, should it happen to end, will not end up
being the only one you ever have, and that "we've already been together for an
appropriately long period of time" is not remotely a legitimate reason to get
married.

Should there not be a very, very strong match - due to lack of shared values,
mismatched libido, poor communication skills, whatever - then the appropriate
thing to do is break it off, not limp along in an adequate-but-far-from-ideal
state until length of tenure or the pressure of societal obligations compel
you to the altar.

~~~
chm
I agree with your last paragraph except for one point. Libido can and does
change, but it's (from my experience) not controllable. OTOH, you can work on
your communication skills, or even convince someone that, e.g. spending more
money on trips than on clothing is better (i.e. influence one's values). Not
even great communication between partners will fix a libido mismatch, it's not
something that can be rationalized.

------
firemanx
My wife had me buy her a poster this year which I have found to be
particularly profound in a variety of life's situations. It says, simply "The
grass is greener where you water it."

We've since had it framed.

------
exstudent2
While this post almost touched on the issue I believe the number one reason
marriage is in trouble in the 21st century is due to media and societal
glamorization of hedonism and selfishness.

Not mentioned in the post is the value that can _only_ come from having a
single mate for life and working through problems together (lightly mentioned
as "growing together"). This idea became abhorrent in the 20th century, driven
in large part by advertising but also the culture of the baby boomers.

Rock stars and groupies were glamorized. Men had immense media pressure on
them to have multiple mates. Toward the end of the century women had the same
pressure put on them with media like Sex and The City and Friends.

The documentary Century Of Self covers a lot of the root manipulation that
created this situation, but the end result is a feeling of failure and shame
for people with low partner counts.

------
kazinator
There is "wrong person for you" and "wrong person for _anyone_ ". The latter,
you must avoid at all costs.

~~~
AznHisoka
What's the difference? If he/she is wrong for you, who cares if he/she isn't
right for someone else?

Very little consolation (if any) if he/she turns out to be the right person
for someone else.

~~~
kazinator
What's the difference? Hmm, perhaps a car analogy. "Wrong car for you" might
be a two-seater sporty thing, and you have five kids. "Wrong car for anyone"
has brakes that suddenly stop working.

~~~
a3n
My ex wife was a Volvo station wagon whose brakes stopped working.

------
maxander
I've got one word for all you lovebirds- roommates. Best (reversible) way to
know your domestic faults. Distrust any potential romantic partner that hasn't
lived with other people extensively. And in their _adult_ lives, since in
college most people aren't ready to do that kind of self-development. And
distrust yourself if you haven't done the same, of course.

------
draw_down
I thought this was pretty fantastic. I would say it nailed much of the reason
I ended up marrying the wrong person.

However, denial was a HUGE part that doesn't come up here. Every time in the
run-up to the wedding that I experienced something that made me want to call
it off, I told myself it was just cold feet, that all guys think that stuff.
Denial. But I suppose this is more or less covered by the part about not
knowing oneself. Definitely learned a lot about myself since then.

Two more things:

1) It's really not hard to get laid in your 30s. I outright disagree with that
part.

2) For me at least, the divorce itself was nowhere near the emotional blow of
realizing that I was married to someone who was wrong for me. Carrying that
burden inside was _soul-destroying_. Talking in counseling about what wasn't
working, and then ultimately getting divorced, was nowhere near as bad as
that. But, I was only married for two years. It probably sucks a lot worse
when you've bought a house and had babies and stuff.

------
Erwin
This site seems to be derived (or even created by as, it reminds me of his
style) Alain de Botton's work -- author of many interesting modern philosophy
books:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_de_Botton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_de_Botton)

~~~
kough
Yup, he helped found The School of Life, which is responsible for this
website.

Out of curiosity, did you read the content and not read anything about the
source? The _first_ thought I had when I saw the domain name was huh, who is
telling me to live my life this way.

------
gizi
> Back in the olden days, marriage was a rational business ...

It still is for 80% of the world population.

> We are still traumatised by this.

I don't think that 80% of the world population would be traumatized. Arranged
marriages work absolutely fine. It is rather the alternative that is in doubt.

~~~
aaroninsf
Agreed... ITT there is a good amount of presumption that the natural and
appropriate motivation for decisions is personal actualization and short
horizon victory.

E.g. contention that it's so good to be single today, why would you even
consider getting married?

The answer to those in a prolonged adolescence with such a view is: because
there may be more to life than yourself. The first thing that changes when you
_have kids_ is that you should no longer be your own top priority.

Thank god neurobiology forces reorganization of imperatives as much as it
does...! :)

------
logfromblammo
I searched the article and found only one mention of "money".

My hypothesis is that libido mismatch and inability to reach consensus on
household budgeting are the two strongest root causes for failed marriages.

~~~
cmollis
There was distinct libido mismatch which ultimately deteriorated into an
effective 'weapon', if you will (if you do this, you won't get that, kind of
thing). Money was never a problem. I suspect money is Often used as convenient
excuse hiding something more sinister (or prosaic like in my case, we just
never loved one another )

~~~
LordKano
It's easier to live with being broke if your sexual needs are being met.

If you're broke and sexually unfulfilled, that's not going to last.

~~~
epimetheus
Or even if you have money and are sexually unfulfilled. I'm pretty sure for
myself, a libido mismatch was a contributing factor for some of our issues. We
do fine, not in the 1%, but certainly in the 5-6% (household income ~140k in a
not terrible cost of living area).

Our times of interest were even wonky. I get tired at night and lose interest,
that's when she wanted it. I liked it in the morning (after brushing the
teeth), she likes to sleep in as much as possible (After a kid, that means
until he/she wakes up).

And she was quick to reach (sorry if this is TMI, lol), while I took a bit
longer, and she was extra sensitive after and... uh, dried up so it became
painful for her after she got hers.

After awhile, sex become uninteresting if you are the one not getting
fulfilled, and the marriage suffers. No amount of money fixes that.

~~~
LordKano
I'm not willing to go into detail but my divorce was very much about sexual
incompatibility.

------
tgb
I think there might be simpler explanation. Consider that starting and
especially leaving a relationship has major time and emotional costs. So we're
simply biased to commit to anyone we happen to be with. Similar to why we work
the wrong job, for example.

~~~
therealdrag0
That certainly plays a role.

------
alexashka
This was painful - I read the first point, skimmed the second and forwarded
reading a sentence of each point further down the line.

Anyone giving out bullet points about marriage needs to back it up with some
credentials - who are you to be making these statements?

This comes across a lot like self-help advice from someone needing some help.

'Learn by teaching' is a disaster in the making - you simply don't have the
life experience to teach anyone anything but what a thousand thoughts going in
a thousand different directions look like.

The heavy-intellectualizing of this post and the pomposity of 'book of life'
\- please take a look in the mirror and humble yourself, whoever the author
may be :)

~~~
sjg007
Umm shared experiences mainly.

------
CameraSupra
There is so much wrong with the first section of the article, I could only put
up with skimming the rest. The only thing I learned from the first section was
not to marry the author.

~~~
scribu
Your comment would be a lot more valuable if you replaced "There is so much
wrong" with specifics.

~~~
AJ007
"Sex is hard to come by as well. For all the new gadgets and supposed freedoms
of modernity, it can be very hard to get laid – and expecting to do so
regularly with new people is bound to end in disappointment after 30."

------
whitsend
I feel so sad reading this as I feel that my marriage is in the final stages
and will end soon - regardless of what I want. I have a 6 and 3 yr old who I
will do anything for but carrying on in marriage won't work and I don't have
the final say if things are to end. Does anyone know some online groups or
forums to talk through these issues? I'm not US-based but still would value
the chance to talk to people in the same situation.

thanks.

------
ececconi
These are the two things that led to the dissolution of a six year
relationship.

\- how can one raise children with them \- how can one develop together

------
lakesta
Seems like the biggest thing of all is forgotten here - people change. Even if
you marry the right person, they won't be that same person a year out and you
won't be either so it doesn't really matter who you married or who you were
when you married. Sure there are some people who are really really wrong for
one another but outside of that, everyone is going to "marry the wrong
person". If they're not the wrong person when you marry them, just wait
longer. There's a book that covers this as well as a lot of other misnomers on
marriage and how to work through them,
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054TVVPK](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054TVVPK)

------
hoodoof
I did much of what this guy did:

[http://www.danoah.com/2012/10/16-ways-i-blew-my-
marriage.htm...](http://www.danoah.com/2012/10/16-ways-i-blew-my-
marriage.html)

------
norea-armozel
At this rate, I'll likely never marry since I have a hard enough time knowing
myself in general (not a joke, since I'm trans and dealing with my gender
identity now at 35 it really sucks to meet people in social settings). Oh
well, I can always just have a cat to feed and pet.

------
SSQ
I am from a different school. I got married because I had to. The myriad
questions of "incompatibility" were never given accommodation in both of our
minds. Period.

Moral: I am not so special so as not to be able to accommodate another person
!

------
oldsj
Have to say I really like the layout and color scheme of the site and I like
the general "life advice" theme as well.

What if we made a git-backed / wiki style site like this where anyone could
contribute and the best "life advice" would rise to the top?

~~~
dopamean
I'm sure there are a variety of subreddits you could combine into a
multireddit that would serve this purpose. /r/diy, /r/lifeprotips, and
/r/personalfinance all come to mind.

------
basicplus2
its simple... men need sex, women need children.. its hard wired. and
eventually these needs go out of alignment

------
grillvogel
this was a lot of rambling nonsense

~~~
noselfrighteous
Why even comment with such a lackluster critique?

~~~
reddytowns
the truth is sometimes expressed better simply

~~~
reddytowns
WHY

~~~
reddytowns
ALL

~~~
reddytowns
THE

~~~
reddytowns
DOWNVOTES!?!?!

~~~
reddytowns
HMM?????????

