
The Trouble with Leaving Facebook Is That We Like Facebook - IAmEveryone
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-trouble-with-leaving-facebook-is-that-we-like-facebook/
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slfnflctd
> "That ties in with what scientists call “ambient awareness” — a theory that
> having access to regular, small, seemingly disconnected bits of information
> about a person’s life can build stronger social connections, help us feel
> more bonded and make us happier."

I used to keep a list of people I wanted to be able to remember and stay in
touch with. On paper. For most of them, I had no phone number, street address,
email address, nothing-- only a name, and a desire to have some kind of
contact again in the future. I was fairly certain I might never be able to
track some of them down again.

I don't need the list any longer. Those people are all on Facebook. There is
no other single place I can easily reconnect with them, let alone see how
they're doing and what they're thinking without having to interrupt them and
ask them to set aside time for me. I consider this pretty vital to my quality
of life, and have no replacement for it.

Does it suck that one corporation owns this experience? Sure, in an abstract
sense, but for the time being, there is no alternative. And thus far, there is
nothing negative about it for me other than 'data which could potentially
maybe be used against me somehow in the future'. I don't really share anything
other than neutral/positive moments in my life, and I don't seek out anything
other than how my old friends & extended family are doing. So I'm quite okay
with it.

People have been hating on it and loudly deleting their profiles for many
years. If they posted a bunch of stupid crap, I guess I could see why. But
that seems to me like a problem which is easily avoided.

~~~
ConceptJunkie
I'm glad to hear this sentiment. I understand where people are coming from
regarding Facebook being a shallow or toxic environment. It can definitely be
both. And concerns about the company's practices are legitimate as well. But
my experience is like yours.

Facebook is also a good way to keep in touch with people, and to participate
in online discussions. There are tons of people I've reconnected with, or flat
out met, that I would not have without FB.

------
saintPirelli
"The trouble with losing weight is that we actually like fastfood."

Yeah, no shit. It still makes you stupid and fat and the only reason you won't
quit is because their marketing and how their product is built is stronger
than your will. So you do the wrong thing despite better knowledge.

~~~
sourthyme
I don't know how people can compare eating fast-food to using a social
network. Is it really bad for you if you use a social network?

~~~
Sileni
Yes. It's been associated with many negative mental health effects. Quick
examples, but you can find a lot of studies on it. [0][1]

[0] [http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180104-is-social-media-
bad...](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180104-is-social-media-bad-for-you-
the-evidence-and-the-unknowns)

[1]
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-d...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-
down-of-social-medias-effects-on-our-mental-health/#1343e0842e5a)

~~~
scarface74
I have to be very mindful that what people post on FB are the fun times, the
vacations, etc.

Most people don't post about the drudgery of every day life - work, kids,
rinse repeat.

It's easy to think everyone else has a more exciting life than I have.

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diego_moita
The majority of people behave by classical Pavlovian conditioning: they'll get
addicted for what gives them immediate pleasure even if it brings them pain,
misery and suffering in the long run. That's why we have so much obesity,
tobacco, cocaine, opioids and global warming.

Facebook will keep thriving because it is to people what cookies were to Ivan
Pavlov's dogs: instant gratification.

Btw, I closed my FB account 4 years ago.

~~~
IAmEveryone
You obviously don't like Facebook's practices, and neither do I. I wish
Facebook would see its users leave in droves, for a privacy-conscious
competitor to emerge, for decentralised services to make a comeback, or for
regulation to put an end to the dark side of Facebook's business.

Which is why I believe it's not constructive to arrogantly ignore the case
this article is making.

The reasons why people may find Facebook useful seem compelling: staying in
touch with people you don't know well enough to see or call regularly; staying
"on the radar" when, for example, someone from your extended circle of friends
goes through their contact list to invite people to their party, etc.

Even if you're right and there are some reasons why these mechanisms actually
are detrimental to our social lives, I think the article's arguments are far
more intuitive, and closer to what people actually believe.

If you want to convince them to leave Facebook, it would be far more effective
to start with an understanding of their point of view, instead of insulting
them as animals governed by lesser instincts.

~~~
diego_moita
Forgive me but, because I don't feel the effects of its influence, I do not
care that much about its existence. (Remember: I don't use FB). Yes, I do have
a moral objection to its practices, but not really an immediate repulse.

As per your last argument: I am not "insulting them". If it were an "insult",
it would be for everyone including me. I also go through considerable effort
to avoid obesity and would also be addicted to drugs if I tried them.

From a biological perspective we are all animals and as such we are all
governed by "instincts", by the biological needs every animal has. Regardless
of what they tell you in your biblical studies, human biology is very much
like most of other mammals. Their "point of view" is just their biological
need for little bursts of dopamine.

------
0xADADA
The Trouble with Quitting Smoking is That We Like Smoking.

------
matz1
Maybe is personality thing, most techie, including me, are introvert so the
idea of social media is repulsive, even evil. In contrary, to many other
people social media is an utility.

Like it or not, The next generation society/culture will be influenced much by
social media so I either will embrace it or risk being out of touch with
society.

~~~
IAmEveryone
I think Facebook is a godsend for introverts. Zuckerberg himself actually
seems to be one, himself.

As but one example: Facebook allows me to rather passively stay in contact
with many people I'd rather not call every week. Post a picture here and there
and your mother is far less angry at you for not calling often enough.

~~~
iamatworknow
Facebook was a gift and a curse for introverts.

I signed up for Facebook my freshman year of college, 2005. For someone in a
new place who wasn't very good socially, it allowed me to meet all sorts of
people at college through chatting online (something I was already very
comfortable with thanks to things like AIM and Yahoo messenger). Used to be
that you could search for keywords among people at your college, so it was
great for meeting people with similar interests. People were much more open
online then, be it willingly or just for the fact that having a private
account just wasn't an option at the time.

But it also became a crutch, and I (and perhaps many others) started to use it
as my primary means of meeting and interacting with people. I never did very
well developing real world social skills to meet people in person and build up
that confidence that college is the perfect environment to foster.

Now I'm 30, and also recently moved to a new, unfamiliar place. And while I'm
"okay" socially, I feel like had I just shut the damn computer off in college
and forced myself to build up that social network in real life, I'd be more
comfortable and confident in my abilities to meet cool people in person today.

~~~
ConceptJunkie
I went college in the 80s, so social networking on the net wasn't a thing.
(Well, mostly... I did manage to meet one of my best friends in college
chatting on the Vax before I ever met her in person.)

I'm definitely an introvert, and not having social networking at that age was
probably a good thing for me. I don't feel like I missed anything not having
it, but I'm happy to have it now, especially when the people I used to know
are scattered very widely geographically.

~~~
iamatworknow
Oh sure. I'm not saying there aren't benefits to having it as an adult, but it
was very easy to become overly reliant on the social aspect of the internet
like that at a susceptible age, I guess.

I think what compounded my issue in particular is that I grew up in a rural
area with my own computer/internet connection ever since I was probably 11 or
12 years old. It wasn't like I could drive 15 miles to meet other kids in
person, and I didn't have family that would facilitate such a thing, so
outside of school hours and until I got my drivers license the internet was
all there was for interacting with others my age.

Then when college came and more in-person opportunities opened up, I more or
less was stuck in that same mindset and squandered them.

------
DrScump

      If you just can’t quit Facebook, it could be because you have decided that the benefits outweigh the risks
    

I would argue that most users _don 't know or understand_ the risks. For most,
it's not a fully-informed consent.

------
lambda_lover
> Sixty-seven percent of Americans say online communication strengthens their
> relationships — compared with just 18 percent who say it makes those
> relationships weaker. If you aren’t on Facebook, you’re missing out on
> important parts of your friends’ lives — maybe even missing your friends
> entirely, if they live far from you.

I really don't think what people _think_ Facebook does to their relationships
actually maps at all to the actual impact of Facebook on their relationships.

I'm 22 years old. I graduated from college last year. I think in 2008-2012,
Facebook helped me keep in touch with friends because all of my friends posted
to it regularly, sharing life events and photographs. My News Feed (back when
it was chronological by default) helped me keep up to date with the biggest
things in all of my friends' lives. It was nice. Notifications told me when
somebody interacted my content, and I could take the time to read every
comment someone made on one of my photos or posts. There were a few ads in a
sidebar, which I could mostly ignore.

Today (well, two months ago, when I deleted my Facebook account), none of this
is true, and Facebook is completely useless because of it. My News Feed
regularly hides major posts from me, and throws "suggested content" and ads in
my face before I can see anything I care about. My friends never post any
more, and when they do, I don't see it because it's a) hidden in the News Feed
of garbage and b) might _not even be in the News Feed of garbage_ because
Facebook's algorithm doesn't think it's "relevant". Notifications are complete
spam, telling me that "X posted something!" and never letting me know when
people post on my own photos and posts. Because it's hard to tell when people
engage, there's no point in engaging -- nobody will read your comments! I
studied abroad Fall semester of my senior year, and when I got home I posted a
huge photo album of exciting places I visited. For 6 months, I assumed nobody
commented or liked anything because I didn't get any notifications. I checked
back on it when I first started thinking about deleting my Facebook, and
realized there were dozens of likes and a handful of comments per picture.
None of which I knew about. All of these people tried to reach out to me via a
comment, asking about my trip, and it looked like I ignored all of them
callously because Facebook never told me anything.

Facebook was once a useful tool for social interaction, but today I simply
keep a list of the two-dozen or so friends I actually want to keep up with.
Whenever I have a lazy afternoon or some free time, I consult the list, think
about who I've lost touch with, and give them a call. I find that this is a
much more rewarding way to interact with the people I love and care about. If
you're feeling trapped by Facebook's social graph, just remember that humans
interacted for tens of thousands of years without social media, and decades
with only phones and letters. You can do the same.

Don't feed Facebook's ad engine at the expense of your own social circle. You
can do a lot better.

~~~
jamesrcole
> _I really don 't think what people think Facebook does to their
> relationships actually maps at all to the actual impact of Facebook on their
> relationships. ... I'm 22 years old ... today I simply keep a list of the
> two-dozen or so friends I actually want to keep up with. ...I consult the
> list ... and give them a call. ... just remember that humans interacted for
> tens of thousands of years without social media, and decades with only
> phones and letters. You can do the same._

I'm 40 and I think you're misrepresenting what things used to be like. It used
to be very easy to lose touch with people.

People would move, change phone numbers (and not have mobile phones with phone
numbers that might remain a constant) and you wouldn't know. Or there'd be
acquaintances or even people you'd call friends that you never had their
contact details in the first place (it's more of a deal to ask for someone's
home number and/or address -- or provide your own -- than to become Facebook
friends). You likely kept people's numbers on paper, and if that was misplaced
at some point you could easily lose any way to contact people.

I've lost touch with so many people I've known over the years. A number of
these being people that had been good friends, who I would have liked to keep
in contact with, and others who were less close but who I'd still like to have
some sort of contact with.

~~~
lambda_lover
This is a really good point, thank you for articulating it so well.

Since you're from the generation before my own (close to two generations, I
guess), I'm curious for your take on this: do you find Facebook interaction to
truly feel authentic (not the right term, but I can' think of a better one)? I
find that it is too often a passive exchange: you friend somebody you used to
know, you might exchange a few messages if you were _very_ close friends in
the past, and then their posts are largely lost in the noise of the Feed. And
if they don't post, they might as well not even be your friend.

If you really want to get in touch with those people, today you can always
search for their LinkedIn or send them an email or just ask a friend who might
still be in touch to share their contact information... right? At least then
they'll know you truly care, instead of just clicking a button at the behest
of a Facebook suggestion algorithm. Personally I feel like friendships ought
to be active relationships, so Facebook "friends" usually aren't anything more
than acquaintances. But then again, I'm young, unmarried, and living in a
major US city, so my perspective might be a little different from somebody who
has a spouse, children, and a mortgage in suburban America :) ... or anybody
else in the US, for that matter.

~~~
jamesrcole
> _I 'm curious for your take on this: do you find Facebook interaction to
> truly feel authentic (not the right term, but I can' think of a better
> one)?_

I think a lot of the interactions are very shallow ones (not saying there's
anything inherently wrong with all shallow interactions), and I think it lets
people "manage their image" to a large extent. But I do think that even fairly
shallow interactions can still be authentic (in the sense that people aren't
trying to lie or mislead).

But at the same time, I think similar can be said of a lot of face-to-face
interactions as well.

> _And if they don 't post, they might as well not even be your friend._

There's a spectrum. E.g. there can be people who don't post much, but
occasionally post photo albums, which means you can look at their profile and
see their photos and at least get a sense of some of the things they've been
up.

> _If you really want to get in touch with those people, today you can always
> search for their LinkedIn or send them an email or just ask a friend who
> might still be in touch to share their contact information... right?_

These days you can, but the reality is that the more friction involved the
less people are going to do it. Ideally they would do it, but that's not
reality. You can argue that if you're not going to make the effort then those
people weren't really close enough friends. I don't agree with that -- one,
there's differing degrees of friendship and 'lesser' friendships can still
have value, and second, people are imperfect just don't always do what's in
their best interest (like going to the effort of keeping in contact with good
friends).

> _Personally I feel like friendships ought to be active relationships, so
> Facebook "friends" usually aren't anything more than acquaintances._

I've already touched on my view on this, but I don't hold the 'close
friendship or nothing' view. I think there can still be value in 'weaker'
forms of friendship, right down to being acquaintances. (Obviously though,
this is a topic you could get quite deep into... like in how much time is it
really worth devoting to different kinds of relationships... and I'm only
dealing with the matter in a fairly superficial way, and I know I could be
wrong about it).

------
kitd
Soma

------
singularity2001
No we don't

~~~
hashkb
Yeah. It's really obviously terrible. I don't understand the social media fad
at all. (I'm 31 and used Facebook at college until they rolled out the news
feed which was clearly evil)

