
The Acceleration of Addictiveness (2010) - iamcurious
http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html
======
Bartweiss
A recent piece taking on the topic from a different framing:
[http://joyousandswift.org/hyperstimulus/](http://joyousandswift.org/hyperstimulus/)

It doesn't deal in addiction but overwhelming stimuli, whether or not they're
repeated. Animals can be fooled by unrealistically strong experiences - you
can trick a goose into 'hatching' a volleyball - and it appears that humans
have somewhat similar responses.

The insights in the two articles aren't vastly different, but there's one
intriguing thought: there are actual selection pressures against this. When
animals are fooled by superstimuli they're things that are rare (brood
parasitism) or nonexistent (volleyballs) - if the extreme stimulus was common
they would refine their processing. Some human cases may be hard to avoid
(e.g. dopamine receptors) but some might be simpler. It's starting to look
like overriding these responses is a major skill for everyday human
functioning.

~~~
laaph
I disagree with the second sentence in this assertion in the article you
linked: "Perhaps less dramatically, anyone who lives in an urban center
probably has friends or acquaintances who have chosen not have children,
simply because they prefer an epicurean lifestyle. This is not a phenomenon
that occurs in the poorest countries in the world, but rather one that is
unique to the wealthiest."

Birth rates have been falling dramatically all over the world over the past 40
years, in rich and poor countries alike. It is true that the birth rate is
still higher in poor countries than it is in rich countries. But even in poor
countries, birth rates have dropped. You can go look at
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate)
and find your favorite poor country and see the changes. North Korea is just
less than replacement rate, 2.0 children/woman. Cuba is 1.6 children per
woman, well under replacement rate.

Haiti went from 5.8 children per woman in 1970 to 3.0 in 2013. That kind of
drop has been experienced around the world, in rich countries as well as poor
countries. Pakistan is another example I commonly cite, going from 6.6
children/woman in 1970 to 3.8 in 2013

However, almost every poor country has been getting richer, so it might be
hard to untangle the effects.

~~~
Bartweiss
I'm not clear on where the disagreement is here? I guess "unique to the
wealthiest" is rather strong, but the claim made is pretty specific.

The general explanation for falling fertility rates like '5 -> 3' is that it's
mostly about falling infant mortality and improved birth control. People have
more control over pregnancies and more confidence in the survival of their
children, so they can achieve a small family with fewer births.

That's a substantially different matter than being voluntarily childless. I
admit I'm summoning up complexity here by claiming that 'N -> 2.1' has a
different mechanism than '2.1 -> 1.46', and that there are some odd examples.
North Korea I'd largely discount because famine warps birth rates, but Cuba is
interesting. Presumably this is some of the same effects, but I'm not sure if
there are very many people in Havana doing the "young and rich and childfree"
thing with the same cultural markers. I'm actually not sure, I'd need someone
more familiar with Cuban (or other) cultures to answer that.

~~~
svachalek
How is improved birth control substantially different than being voluntarily
childless?

~~~
Bartweiss
Improved birth control implies "prevents unwanted births". Some places without
'modern' birth control have low rates of unwanted pregnancy, but some places
are pretty high. They both lower birth rates, but better birth control will
only drop rates to "as many kids as people want to have", which is >0 for a
lot of people.

Voluntarily childless has a personal/psychological element - it's about not
wanting a family in the first place - and can take personal birth rates down
to 0.

------
krrishd
Given that a significant chunk of design/product nowadays is centered around
'engagement', the inevitability of this can't be understated.

Imagine if our medication, food, etc were designed around engagement. We
already have a term for that, and it's addiction.

I don't understand why we guard our physical intake from 'addiction', but
don't show anywhere as much concern re: our cognitive intake despite our mind
not mattering any less than our body.

I know the practical solution here is being a more conscientious user, but I
feel like there's ethical culpability on our profession.

~~~
crawfordcomeaux
There's more than enough responsibility to go around. If we want industries to
create things that counteract the problem, they'll need new processes to
replace the old ones with.

I believe the first step is the development of new design theories.

~~~
xg15
I'd think it's more about economic theories. If all economic incentives point
to making a product more addictive, of course products will be designed that
way.

~~~
crawfordcomeaux
It's simple to show addiction is an unsustainable configuration for pretty
much any system across all economic levels.

~~~
mark_edward
Could you do so? It's non-obvious to me.

~~~
crawfordcomeaux
If we incompletely define addiction as a cycle of compulsions with negative
consequences, it's already an unsustainable process at the individual level.
We can predict (and statistics confirm this) lifespans of addicts to be lower
than those of comparable non-addicts.

If a business intentionally develops a userbase of addicts, they are choosing
customers who will live shorter lives than others. They'll need to get more
people addicted over time in order to maintain the biz or grow it. As their
impact on customers rises, so does their visibility. At some point, the public
will become aware of the effects and push back, making it harder to cultivate
new addicts. The company will likely have to start covertly converting addicts
to keep up the game, adopting addiction patterns at an organizational level.
Governments will have to step in before their tax bases are affected.

Is that clearer?

~~~
xg15
> _If a business intentionally develops a userbase of addicts, they are
> choosing customers who will live shorter lives than others._

That assumes that all addictions are deadly and that the company would mind.

A company is not interested in a customer's life span but the span of time
they are their customer. if someone dies with 30 after having been a "loyal"
customer for 20 years, that's better for them than if they die with 90 but are
a customer for 5 years.

> _They 'll need to get more people addicted over time in order to maintain
> the biz or grow it. As their impact on customers rises, so does their
> visibility._

Not really if the incentive is strong enough that everyone does it. As seems
to be the case with the internet.

> _At some point, the public will become aware of the effects and push back,
> making it harder to cultivate new addicts._

That's an assumption. Like the previous point, that won't happen if it's
considered "normal".

> _The company will likely have to start covertly converting addicts to keep
> up the game, adopting addiction patterns at an organizational level._

Yes. So what?

> _Governments will have to step in before their tax bases are affected._

I don't see any evidence of that happening.

Anyway, what are the sources for that theory?

------
euyyn
For sugar, we've started the phase of awareness of its harmfulness, and no
doubt our children or grandchildren will have social norms not to abuse it.

But for the internet it's much more difficult: I don't think the habit of
avoidance can be born without first general awareness of its danger. And the
danger in all other substances Paul mentions is a physical one: you get
terminally ill, or visibly unhealthy. But internet addiction is invisible; it
masks itself as the person being just slower than their peers, or lazier.

Moreover, not buying a pack of cigarettes is trivially easy for someone that's
not addicted yet. As is not getting drunk every day. But distinguishing the
addictive internet from the non-addictive is hard, and avoiding the former
while still using the latter is even harder. What shape can a social habit of
avoidance take here?

~~~
reader5000
> But internet addiction is invisible; it masks itself as the person being
> just slower than their peers, or lazier.

Socially isolated, failure to obtain/hold jobs, failure to reach traditional
milestones (marriage, own house, children, etc.).

~~~
terminalcommand
I also think that internet addiction is visible. When you submerse yourself
into the digital world, you don't take care of your health, your physical
appearance. I guess internet addiction varies in its severance.

I have a friend from high school, he was the smartest kid in class, was a
math-genius. Somehow he lost interest in school. He has a Youtube channel,
where he posts game videos, earns a bit money from there (i guess 500 dollars
per month). He is "trying" to study economics, but he is still in the same
semester after three years. He does lead a life, but not in the physical
world. He was a handsome kid, now he doesn't eat and doesn't care about
appearances. He only drinks iced tea (no water) and eats limited food he likes
(like pasta or chocolate). Although his life may seem weird, I respect him.
That's his choice to live in the digital world.

~~~
euyyn
The very nature of addiction is that he's not completely free to make the
choice, though.

~~~
terminalcommand
The question is, is it really an addiction? Can we specify it as a lifestyle
choice? The individual in question thinks, has goals, becomes sad, happy and
most importantly his intelligence is intact. He is not like an advanced
heroine addict playing the same tape over and over again.

~~~
euyyn
Coffee and tobacco are addictions that let your intelligence intact. It's a
choice only as long as he's able to chose not to; otherwise it's an addiction.

~~~
bdamm
Not so. Addiction has a medical definition; it is the experience of craving.

Thus, if the gamer in GP stops playing games, then experiences intense
overwhelming craving for the game, he is addicted, and his thought processes
are compromised as a result.

~~~
euyyn
Isn't that pretty much what I said?

~~~
svachalek
having a craving !== having no choice

~~~
bdamm
Yes but I think the fine distinction is being lost. "having no choice" (such
as social collapse) is not the same as "having a craving." But, psychotic
obsession on the same outcome (to execute the addictive behavior), endlessly
and for days, is effectively no choice. The suffering is real, and the
suffering is temporarily relieved by satisfying the addiction. This is not the
same as having no choice, but I don't want to marginalize the experience of
addiction as merely "having a craving".

------
alexmat
His point about hiking is spot on for me. And it's not just a means to get
away from the internet, it's also great for removing all social noise and
enabling a long stretch of contiguous thinking. Running also works well but it
needs to be at least an hour or more before my brain switches into "thoughtful
mode".

Even though I make an effort, it's amazing to think how little time I actually
spend alone with my thoughts compared to even a decade ago when this was
written.

~~~
jimhefferon
This winter I got in the habit of running listening to books. It makes the run
go by.

But after a couple of months I realized that I had lost something, the
meditative effects. I've ditched the bluetooth phones and I like it better.

~~~
WalterBright
I don't listen to earphones while jogging because I'm afraid I'll get hit by a
car. Now and then I have to jump off the road because of a car.

~~~
jimhefferon
Some headphones let in much more sound than others. Also, I used earphones and
only put in the left one.

------
rdiddly
Somebody once told me a certain definition of addiction - they attributed it
to Nietzsche I think, but I'm not sure whether to believe that. Anyway it was
this: An addiction is something that promises to cure that of which it is the
cause.

This compact definition covers surprisingly many addictions. Pick one, I
dunno... heroin. Promises to eliminate all the pain, while bringing tons of
pain into your life.

Even things like gambling - promises excitement & riches, makes you poor and
predictable.

Or even, things like religion - the thing it causes/cures is "awareness of
being a weak sinner."

Or _even_ , social media - the thing it causes/cures is disconnection.

EDIT: This popped up on HN just now:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14851057](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14851057)

------
mgalka
A lot of people roll their eyes at the idea of addictions to something other
than drugs -- gambling, sex, video games, etc. Having done some in-depth
research on gambling addiction, I am firmly convinced it is every bit as
addictive and problematic as drugs -- affects the same people, by the same
physiology, and leads to all the same destructive behaviors.

If we don't turn around our concept of addiction to something that extends
beyond chemicals, we're in for some major societal problems very soon.

------
anythingnonidin
From a survey on drugs/addictive things, relevant to this thread:

[http://i.imgur.com/uJ3vyxs.png](http://i.imgur.com/uJ3vyxs.png)

"How much worse would your life be if [various drugs] ceased to exist?"
(Youtube, TV, internet, smartphones, porn, sugar)

Key: [http://i.imgur.com/c0LDy8b.png](http://i.imgur.com/c0LDy8b.png)

Full results: [http://imgur.com/a/ElbJh](http://imgur.com/a/ElbJh)

------
hammock
>As far as I know there's no word for something we like too much. The closest
is the colloquial sense of "addictive."

Vice? Enchantress or siren? To be put under a spell?

~~~
d0lph
I think he meant things that are only bad in excess.

------
ghostbrainalpha
Towards the end he says that he fights the addictiveness of the internet by
not having an iPhone.

But it looks like now, its time to update this article with a different
strategy.
([https://twitter.com/paulg/status/575490964527034368](https://twitter.com/paulg/status/575490964527034368))

------
crawfordcomeaux
I'm a recovering information addict & I'm intimately familiar with the effects
of these processes. PG refers here to internet addiction, which is similar to
info addiction because the former's a subset of the latter.

As it was with cigarettes, all of society is responsible at all levels for its
own diseases. Individuals are responsible for learning about addiction-
related/-promoting processes in order to make informed decisions about what
systems they choose to interact with. Companies are responsible for learning
how to design systems that are anti-addictive & still sustainable. Governments
are responsible for passing legislation to promote "antibodies."

And all are responsible for developing compassionate paths for recovery. It
starts with listening to addicts in order to help them identify their
needs/wants & help them learn how to meet them in sustainable ways.

------
reader5000
I thought I was weird in noticing "walking=less internet". Another thing is
meditation, but it's no silver bullet. I was supposed to not be on the
internet right now.

------
amelius
I'm hoping one day we'll figure out how addiction works in the brain, and
we'll develop a pill against the negative effects.

~~~
choxi
There's a Radiolab podcast about a pill that supposedly cures alcohol
addiction:
[http://www.radiolab.org/story/addiction/](http://www.radiolab.org/story/addiction/)

The pill they mention is called "Baclofen", and the podcast goes into how
effective it is and why, if it's so good, it isn't used broadly yet.

~~~
overcast
Looks like Baclofen is a muscle relaxant. That would explain why it's not
broadly used.

~~~
choxi
Could you elaborate?

~~~
overcast
This goes for basically all muscle relaxants. Don't plan on being very
productive.

What should I avoid while taking baclofen?

Do not use baclofen at a time when you need muscle tone for safe balance and
movement during certain activities. In some situations, it may be dangerous
for you to have reduced muscle tone.

Drinking alcohol with this medicine can cause side effects.

This medication may impair your thinking or reactions. Be careful if you drive
or do anything that requires you to be alert.

------
smelterdemon
>You can probably take it as a rule of thumb from now on that if people don't
think you're weird, you're living badly

If only I had thought of this rebuttal in middle school...

------
GuB-42
When it comes to illegal drugs, one reason modern drugs are more addictive
than before is that they are simply stronger. Heroin is 3 times stronger than
morphine, which is 10 times stronger than opium. Fentanyl goes through the
roof. They are all addictive, and they all have similar effects, but at
different doses.

Having a more potent substance has many benefits : smaller quantities are
easier to transport or hide and are often cheaper to produce per dose.

------
c3534l
> As far as I know there's no word for something we like too much.

Supernormal stimulus:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus)

------
HAL9OOO
This related comic is pretty good: [http://www.sparringmind.com/supernormal-
stimuli/](http://www.sparringmind.com/supernormal-stimuli/)

------
danvoell
Does PG have an iPhone yet?

~~~
alexmat
My Dad was a smartphone holdout until last year. I deeply regret getting him
one. He is now nose deep in it whenever I see him and much less interesting to
be around since his conversations are now about what's popular online and not
the original thoughts he once used to have.

This has made me more reflective of my tech absorption and how hard it is to
see until you see it happen to someone else.

~~~
kuzimoto
Yeah I used to be a huge Redditor trying to constantly keep up with the memes
and funny content of the day. After quitting it made me realize how much a
slave I was to the platform and how much I needed my hit of random funny crap.

I used HN as a replacement for the industry news and to remove all the other
extra junk. Which seems to be working since I only visit about once a day for
15-20 minutes and don't feel a compulsive need to check it constantly for fear
of missing something since there's a lack of memes and in-jokes.

~~~
criddell
I installed LeechBlock to limit me to 15 minutes of Reddit every day. At
first, I was hitting it with my morning coffee. These days, I rarely use the
entire 15 minute allotment (although I did today).

------
minademian
i think the points raised, that addiction is normalized and that society
decides what is an "addiction" or not, is novel and fresh.

------
prodmerc
I've wanted something to completely, uncompromisingly block all Internet and
software time wasters for a long time. I.e. quit cold turkey, once and for
all.

Short of an UEFI-implemented solution (which itself would create problems like
total control over your hardware), there's nothing out there that can't be
bypassed. And no company is going to do that when the Internet addictions are
bringing in billions.

Best way is to treat it at the core, of course, but that's not going to
happen, either.

------
wcummings
>What hard liquor, cigarettes, heroin, and crack have in common is that
they're all more concentrated forms of less addictive predecessors

Interesting that he left out marijuana concentrates, the most recent example
(in terms of widespread availability).

~~~
c3534l
Well, they don't have anything different in them than regular marijuana and
marijuana is the sort of thing that becomes unpleasant when you have too much.
And you can already smoke too much pot without concentrates. I suppose the
concentrated forms can make the onset more sudden, but it's hardly notably
that he didn't mention it.

~~~
wcummings
Everything you said is also true of tobacco, or alcohol.

------
stillhere
Porn and videogames.

~~~
magic_beans
Since these disproportionally affect males, what is the female vice of this
age?

~~~
dhbradshaw
Social media

Romance books

~~~
morgtheborg
Eh romance books are hardly new or uniquely overwhelming now.

Social media, yes.

