
The iPhone SE was the best phone Apple ever made, and now it’s dead - coloneltcb
https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/14/the-iphone-se-was-the-best-phone-apple-ever-made-and-now-its-dead/
======
RodgerTheGreat
I have an SE, and I like it. The size is nice, I like that it lays flat, I
like that it has a headphone jack. Newer models don't have compelling features
my SE lacks, and take away things I like. I have no incentive to upgrade, and
will likely explore other manufacturers when it eventually wears out.

I have an 11" Macbook Air, and I love it. The size and weight is nice, the
keyboard is great, the touchpad is precise, I love that it has MagSafe, and I
consider the ability to plug in DisplayPort monitors and my USB-A devices a
must-have. Newer laptop models don't have compelling features my Air lacks,
and take away things I like. I have no incentive to upgrade, and will
definitely explore other manufacturers when it eventually wears out.

It's frustrating when a company makes products that suit your needs well, and
then changes its mind. I just don't seem to be in Apple's target market
anymore.

~~~
jrockway
I'm in exactly the same situation. The SE's killer feature for me is that I
can easily operate it with one hand. I commute on the NYC subway, and that
means I have to be able to hold a handrail with one hand while using my phone
with the other. I "downgraded" from an iPhone 6... because apps put controls
everywhere on the screen, and I just couldn't hold the phone and operate it
with the same hand. (The thing was also very slippery; it never slipped out of
my hands and got smashed, but I always felt it was inevitable.)

I am also not planning on upgrading. The iPhone X family looks great. Amazing
screen. I don't care about a home button or a headphone jack or whatever the
improved battery life is. Until I can be guaranteed a seat on the subway, it's
all a net negative because I can't actually interact with applications during
my commute. (When I'm not commuting, I have a 32" monitor, a keyboard, and a
mouse which is WAY BETTER than a 6" phone and my finger.)

(More honestly, I don't see $1000 in value-add over my current phone. I don't
need the latest gadget to be happy... but if it makes me $1000 happier over
its lifetime, sign me up.)

I feel like it's a cultural thing. "Designed by Apple in California" where you
just drive to work so a bigger phone is only a benefit (larger battery,
easier-to-read text when you're using the phone). But in NYC, small is a huge
benefit, and it's a shame that the transit-deprived West Coast tech companies
don't understand our use case here.

~~~
achompas
> I feel like it's a cultural thing.

I don't think culture has much to do with it.

Apple's market cap is over $1 trillion. They sold over 40M iPhones last
quarter. They have way more data than either of us do, and the market has
spoken: there is not enough demand for small phones to justify a separate SKU.

(Also, as a fellow strap-hanger for 6 years, I just shoved my phone in my
pocket and listened to podcasts while riding. But I know everyone has a
different use case!)

EDIT: Folks complain on one end about Apple’s lack of product focus and on the
other end about cutting out SKUs that do not make sense at their enormous
scale.

As much as you all love the SE, it went untouched for years at a time. I
imagine there were no components that made sense for the smaller SKU as Apple
transitioned to larger phones (and batteries, crucially). It is also a low-ASP
phone to begin with, which makes less sense for a company who increasingly
makes “luxury” tech products.

~~~
MagnumOpus
Apple would sell millions of the SE2 without cannibalising sales. Every other
phone manufacturer would salivate at this opportunity, especially at 100%+
margins. "Not enough" smacks of a lackluster excuse of an adhd department
head.

~~~
cschep
You have absolutely no idea if any of this is true and you risk nothing saying
it. It sure sounds nice though.. :)

Making things at the scale that Apple makes them is hard. If the SE was a
great business idea, Apple would keep doing it. Maybe they will make another
one in the Spring. It's not dead dead yet.

~~~
derefr
My understanding is that the SE is made out of leftovers—not in a micro sense
of things literally left sitting on the factory floor, but rather in a macro
sense: they're made from the tail ends of multi-year component supply
contracts, where Apple is obligated to take receipt of components that no
longer feed into any current product they're building. They're a "bone broth",
a way to use up those tailings and make a profit (however slight) off of them.

This was also true, ten years ago, of the iPod Touch. It was the reason for
the iPhone 5C. It's at least _partially_ the reason for the iPhone XR today.
It's also the reason Apple keeps selling the iPhone 7 and 8.

The problem (for consumers) is that, eventually, you run out of the tailings
you were using to make one of these "byproducts", since you never signed on to
produce more of them. (That being rather the point of the whole process, from
Apple's perspective.)

Once the supply contract for iPhone 5S "chassis" components is run through,
that'll likely be the end of that form-factor. No device Apple has produced
since then has that form factor, so there are no hand-me-down components to
repurpose into a new device of that form-factor.

------
DanTheManPR
I bought an iPhone SE last night.

The smartphone industry's decision making in the last few years has been...
bizarre. I've been an Android user up to this point because I appreciated the
vast feature set, open architecture and diversity of hardware that I could
find. That initially meant settling for a lot of the quirks and general
cheapness of early Android phones - Apple had them all so thoroughly beat on
polish. With the advent of really good high-end phones from Samsung and
others, and the great advancements in Android's software, it seemed to me that
we were getting to the point that there was no particular reason why anyone
should prefer an Apple smartphone over any of the other high-end options.

The phablet craze and the ridiculous explosion in screen size should have
tipped me off that something was very wrong with the industry. It didn't make
sense to me that literally no-one would offer a phone that was small enough
for one-handed use. And then they started eliminating the headphone jacks. And
then... the notch. Multi-billion dollar development teams started chasing each
other down degenerate design paths. The modern smartphone is this weird art
project that's uncomfortable to interact with, and doesn't have a lot of basic
features I use. Swappable battery? Expansion slot for microsd? Rare, and
getting rarer.

Worse, Google seems to have totally abandoned the initial premise behind
Android, and every handset manufacturer has erected a walled garden filled
with bloatware and with no expectation of any future support. If I'm going to
live in a walled garden, I would rather live in a nice one.

I won't put the iPhone SE on a pedestal. It's older hardware, and you're
definitely sacrificing some battery life and camera quality (two of the few
positives of these modern phablets). But I can reach across the whole screen
with my thumb, and I can listen with any set of headphones I want, and it's
really very pleasant to use - after only half a day of use, it has just
seamlessly disappeared into my life. Exactly as it should.

~~~
mlcdf
Why not go with the Xperia XZ1 Compact then? Because of this? ->

> Worse, Google seems to have totally abandoned the initial premise behind
> Android, and every handset manufacturer has erected a walled garden filled
> with bloatware and with no expectation of any future support. If I'm going
> to live in a walled garden, I would rather live in a nice one.

I'm asking because I'm torn between Xperia XZ1 Compact and the iPhone SE...

edit: forgot the "Compact" part...

~~~
DanTheManPR
I've considered Sony's compact series of phones, as they're about the only
higher end phones that are small enough for one handed use.

The XZ1 itself is quite a large phone, 73 mm wide. I find those quite awkward
to use.

~~~
d1zzy
XZ1 Compact is different from XZ1. Make sure you are checking out the right
phone specs.

------
wlesieutre
Compared to the iPhone XS, the iPhone SE:

    
    
        - Costs $650 less
        - Does everything I need it to
        - Does it one-handed
    

I'm sure the new camera and OLED screen and everything are very nice but I
just don't care enough to spend 3x as much money on fancy phone with a huge
screen when I'm already trying to stare at my phone _less_ , not more.

Maybe the goal is to make phones so uncomfortable to use that you won't want
to take them out of your pocket.

~~~
DanTheManPR
It really is that simple. Phone makers are ignoring the basics. The ~60mm
width of the original iPhone was not an arbitrary design decision - it's how
wide it needs to be to get your thumb across the screen without having to
shift your grip.

~~~
TheVikingOwain
The width is almost exactly the width of a pack of cigarettes. If those
marketing folks know anything it’s what to make something feel good in your
hand.

~~~
Bud
The "marketing folks" had nothing to do with it, of course. "Marketing folks"
make zero design decisions for Apple. Design folks make those.

------
sspencer
I bought an iPhone SE when it came out. It's the perfect phone in my opinion.
I am fully prepared to use it until it falls apart and it's so well built I
think it may take a while.

Nothing they released after it makes sense to me. Too big and they deleted
features I want while adding nothing useful to me. I wasn't expecting an SE2
so I wasn't disappointed when it failed to appear.

This iPhone and my MacBook Pro 2015 are the last Apple products I'll expect
I'll ever own. Not out of spite but because they no longer make things I need,
or even want.

~~~
CharlesW
> _Nothing they released after it makes sense to me. Too big…_

The iPhone XS itself is 13mm wider than the S.

As someone who uses an iPhone 7 Plus with one hand, I'm surprised that 13mm
would make a difference. I'd be curious to hear what you thought after using
one for a week.

~~~
MapleWalnut
It's the screen size that matters. I can reach the top corners of a
iPhone5-sized phone with ease. iPhone6-sized phones require me to strain or
give up and use the reachability feature. I don't think I'm alone in this.

------
dougmwne
Goodbye SE, you will be missed. You had every feature a person could need.
Your tiny screen kept the addictive app mania at bay. You fit in every pocket.
You survived a drop a week for 2 years. You could not survive apple's quest
for more profit margin.

------
duncans
Bear in mind the iPhone SE was not announced/released alongside the flagship
iPhones in a September event, but in more low-key fashion 6 months later.
There's still a chance something might come to fill the gap. They wouldn't
want it to distract or cannibalise sales of their flagship models.

~~~
raviojha
I would very much like to believe this, however, had there been plans for SE
2, they'd have let SE on sale until SE 2 was out.

I wish I'm wrong and they release SE 2 after reaching their margin profits
with X series.

------
tambourine_man
Having lived all my life through a period where it was safe to assume that
eletronic devices would only get better, it hasn't been easy to adapt to this
new trend.

We'll make it thinner, regardless of optical limitations, just leave a camera
bump. We want edge to edge display, but need a camera on the front and can't
quite put it under it yet: behold the notch. We will assume Gordon Gekko was
ahead of its time and simply have everyone use preposterously large phones.

------
Jtsummers
The iPhone XS has a total 6.3" diagonal, with 5.8" display. The SE has a total
5.4" diagonal. If you gave it an edge-to-edge display, you could get a 5"
diagonal screen on it, which is bigger than the iPhone 7 screen size (4.7"
display, total diagonal is 6.05").

So a maxed out screen size on an SE body would give you a better screen than
the 7, but in a smaller phone. How is this not an obvious direction? Lag the
other hardware by 1-2 years to keep costs down a bit and avoid directly
competing against the XS. I'd still buy it.

~~~
lostlogin
With the Touch ID that isn’t really a button but is, and the headphone jack.
With current generation internals I’d pay more for that than the current
phones.

------
roymurdock
Macbook Pro Mid 2012 / iPhone SE user here (just bought a 2nd 128gb SE last
month)

Apple has lost my business for upgrades with their new product direction in
both laptops and phones

But we are not their target market anymore - it's the people/enterprises that
can splash out $1-2k every year for the latest pic taking and video watching
tech

And there are enough people out there to keep the company's revenues booming
and the market happy

Would love to see someone focus on our slice of the market again, I just don't
know if it can be done in a profitable way at this point

------
mariodiana
Honestly, in some ways I liked the iPhone 4/4s even better. It had the best
hand feel of all of Apple's phones. But, when I upgraded to a 5, I did
appreciate more screen.

I have an SE now, and I am totally dejected about these big phones. I don't
live on my phone (like the rest of the world seems to). I want something that
fits unobtrusively in my pocket and that can be easily manipulated with one
hand.

Fie on Apple!

~~~
zoltaan
Agreed about the 4s. I expected having the same form factors with less borders
for a bigger screen. There was quite a potential in that (edge to edge screen
might been exciting the coolness chasers as well). Shame did not happen.

------
whitepoplar
The problem with smartphones today is that it hurts to hold them in the hand.
The SE is the best phone Apple ever made, but man do I wish Apple brought back
the rounded-back form factor of the 3G/3GS.

Someone mentioned this in another thread, but I think there's a _huge_ market
for an iPhone "Nano," something between an XS and Apple Watch in size, but
that has 85% of the functionality of the XS. No gimmicks, no bullshit, just a
beautifully made "utility" device.

------
hownottowrite
I love my SE. The form factor is perfect for me. I'd gladly buy a "XS-SE" to
get the camera upgrade. The rest? Not so much. RIP

------
aphextron
There's just no room in Apples lineup for loved products with small sales
numbers. Case in point: the 17" Macbook Pro. I have large hands, large
fingers, and enjoy having a massive display on my laptop, and it was perfect
for me. I would love nothing more than for Apple to make a true desktop
replacement laptop. However it seems their only interest anymore is in
appeasing the mass market of ultra slim portable devices which most people
want. You simply cannot buy a Macbook quality 17" laptop in 2018 and that's
insane. I really think there's a market opening here for someone to fill that
niche.

~~~
lostlogin
Wasn’t the keyboard the same size as on the smaller laptops, just with acres
on each side?

~~~
spullara
Yes. All sizes, even 11" air, had the same keyboard. The touch pad might have
been bigger.

~~~
saagarjha
No, the 11” Air had a smaller keyboard: just look at the function keys on it.

~~~
Bud
The 11" Air keyboard is the same width, but not quite as deep.

------
newscracker
> Flat, symmetrical design? Check. Actual edges to hold onto? Check.

Every iPhone made by Apple after this, in my view, is a “wet soap”. They’re
all so slippery and bound to fall from one’s hands easily. I personally cannot
hold them without a case that mimics flat and better edges, essentially
changing the shape of the phone to that of an iPhone SE and also increasing
the weight. What a lost opportunity to make a great device again in every
respect, Apple!

From a consumer’s standpoint, Apple seems so shortsighted and completely out
of touch with what people _love_ (not jut like), want and desire. Mac mini,
now iPhone SE...voting with your wallets alone won’t help while ASPs of new
iPhones are more and profits are increasing. Write to Tim Cook over email and
let him know why you’re switching. Maybe, just maybe, when the good times
start to turn bad, Apple may realize its follies and change course.

These kind of articles also help, but consumers need to voice their thoughts
to Apple. Send emails to the top people and also write on Apple’s feedback
page.

~~~
wilsonnb3
> From a consumer’s standpoint, Apple seems so shortsighted and completely out
> of touch with what people love (not jut like), want and desire.

Consider for a moment that it's actually you that's out of touch with what
people love, want, and desire.

They sold like 200 million iPhones in 2017. Hard to believe that they don't
know what consumers want.

~~~
newscracker
Agree. Apple marches to its own tune. But it’s also sad that it ignores
passionate users who have been evangelizing its products.

------
petercooper
My wife is really annoyed at the death of the SE. It's the biggest phone she
can hold and use in a single hand while holding stuff in the other, dealing
with kids, etc. As the screen is getting water damaged and it's generally
becoming flaky with age, she might have to jump ship to Android but she really
doesn't want to.

~~~
macintux
It sounds like there aren't any small Android phones either, at least not high
quality ones.

I sympathize: I actually prefer the original 3.5" screen iPhone. Even the 4"
screen seemed a bit too tall for comfort. I finally decided if I was going to
need two hands periodically anyway, I might as well bite the bullet and go
with a large phone.

~~~
petercooper
She had a Sony Xperia briefly between the iPhone 5 and the SE which was pretty
small. The current smallest Xperias (XA1 and XZ2 Compact) are now rocking 5"
screens though, so only half an inch smaller than the X/XS.

------
ianai
I, for one, can never purchase a device that has to take a photo every time I
lift it. That’s literally illegal where I’d use it 95% of the time. I also
can’t be the only person who doesn’t get much utility out of the selfie cam.

But I definitely like having a phone that fits comfortably in my pocket with
my wallet - and that I can use one handed.

Couldn’t they ditch the notch by having the speaker on the edge of the device?
I have no problem hearing the speaker with my phone pulled away from my ear.

~~~
wufufufu
You can disable Face ID...

But I'm sure they'll re-introduce a revolutionary new fingerprint scanner soon
enough.

~~~
Yetanfou
That has already been done by Synaptics and is used in the Xiaomi Mi 8 [1].
Seeing that Xiaomi copied most of the design from the iPhone X - notch and
all, unfortunately - I guess Apple should get a pass when they copy the under-
screen finger print sensor from Xiaomi.

[1] [https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/xiaomis-
mi8-news/](https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/xiaomis-mi8-news/)

~~~
wufufufu
That's what I was referring to. It'd be a great feature. Apple would just nail
the design and execution, give it a trademark name, and go to town with it.

------
fn
Definitely sucky, I was waiting for and would have upgraded to an SE2 in a
heartbeat. It's the perfect size and I really don't understand why folks no
longer want phones that can be used in one hand or fits into a pocket.

~~~
bennyp101
I don't think it's a case of "folks no longer want phones that can be used in
one hand or fits into a pocket"

I think it's more a case of the companies saying "what you want is a bigger,
shiny screen so you can use it like a computer, nobody has small phones
anymore, don't be left out"

They have gone from a useful accessory, to a status/fashion symbol where
bigger and faster is always better*

* For a given value of better

(Obviously some people actually _do_ want bigger screens because they _need_
it for things, but I would say they are in the minority)

~~~
pwagland
I'm not convinced that it's the minority that want it though. It probably _is_
the minority that _need_ it.

But if I look around, I see a bunch of crappy big screens around, because
"bigger is better" right? And sometimes, those bigger screens really are
crappy. Some of them are decent quality, but they tend to also cost a packet,
just like the iPhone, but not as crazy expensive as an iPhone. Still there are
a lot of big crappy screens to be found around.

------
cjensen
I love the SE because of the form factor. Would have bought the next one.

But I have to imagine a lot of SE buyers were doing so based on price rather
than because it has an awesome form factor. Apple is now serving the cheap
side of the market with the 7, which will probably make the cheap buyers a lot
happier than the SE.

~~~
spydum
I moved from SE to 7.. totally not worth it. I would have paid more for the SE
form factor.

~~~
dijit
As would I. But how can Apple distinguish between value buyers and form-factor
buyers?

~~~
tspike
By making a high end small phone?

~~~
abraham_lincoln
I would pay $800 for a modernized SE (but keep the 3.5mm jack, I am giving you
$800!!!).

------
nickhalfasleep
What I like about the SE is the small form factor, supported by a vendor who I
know will keep providing OS / Security updates. All the status and 2FA
applications I need running on a supported platform.

------
Razengan
I've used every iPhone since the 5, including the SE, and I think the X is the
best phone they've ever made, so much that I don't plan on upgrading until
next year's refresh.

~~~
Razengan
EDIT: I might hold out until they have a 3D-mapping camera system. Can't think
of anything else I might want in a phone in the near future.

------
kanishkdudeja
Apple can no longer make a phone as good as the iPhone SE.

It feels like pure magic and I believe that magic died with Steve Jobs.

~~~
jonknee
To each their own, I vastly prefer the X line.

------
kolbe
The only reason I'm not buying a second one right now to keep as a backup is
that the SE's small screen eventually will not be worth supporting by my
favorite apps. My guess is by this time next year, I'll need a new phone just
to be able to use them.

I find it hard to believe us small phone people will be taken care of by Apple
ever again.

------
jplayer01
I love my SE. I'll probably get an over-sized Android in the future just for
web browsing and watching movies, but I'll keep my SE until it breaks for
everything else where some measure of security is important (auth keys,
emails, communication, etc.), and I'll probably replace it with another SE
when it does.

------
taylodl
Yeah. I like my SE and I'll keep it as long as I can (which will probably be
for another year before I start running out of storage) but if I were in the
market for a new iPhone today I'd go with the 8. It's not _that_ much larger
than the SE, it's certainly a lot cheaper than anything in the X series and it
has wireless charging, not to mention a home button. Now that Apple has
eliminated the SE the 8 is the best phone they're making.

------
novaRom
The problem with Apple is that their iOS products older than 2-3 years are
becoming quickly unusable.

I have some old iPads and I cannot install anything necessary like Firefox
because their iOS is too old and there is no update available (happens with
iPad mini).

Or battery life deteriorates much quicker than in a typical Android phone
(happens with iPhone 6).

Or because next software update had made device totally unusable (that
happened to iPad 1 which become literally unusable due to apps/browser
crashes).

~~~
zoom6628
While everyone is moaning the demise of the SE do note that iOS12 supports the
SE and the 5S. My guess is Apple is doing this to hold onto the small form
factor customers long enough to make the final decision on small form factor
product.

------
samch93
I am a happy owner of an SE and I am afraid of the moment it breaks down. Can
anyone recommend an alternative compact phone with similar build quality and
the same features in terms of software and hardware?

------
peterburkimsher
I'm still using an iPhone 4S 64GB with a Third Rail removable battery case.
Blog posts like this make it clear that there's a market for small-screen
phones, even though none of the usual companies are building them. I think
it's time to give up hope for Apple, and build a new ecosystem.

Old iPods are very hackable [1]. There are suppliers making replacement
backplates, click wheels, extended capacity batteries, and SD card adaptors.
There's plenty of room for a Raspberry Pi Zero in the back, although I use a
PQI Air Card. It can't run touchscreen apps though, which rules out
maps/cameras/typing/many other apps.

Is there a touchscreen that can fit inside 103.5 x 61.8 mm? That's the part I
would need to build my own iPod successor.

[1] [https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-ipod-video-
classic-...](https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-ipod-video-
classic-5g-5-5g-6g-6-5g-7g-ssd-mod-thread.566780/page-642)

------
carlosrg
Seems like I'm going to use my SE for a long time. I would have considered
upgrading to a SE 2 though.

------
droidist2
Do we know for sure it's dead? Could there be a smaller form factor next year?
It was about 3 years between when the 5S and SE were released.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Models](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Models)

------
zaroth
My kids have SEs, and I have an X. I appreciate the X oh so much in
comparison. I absolutely love swiping up instead of clicking a home button. I
delight in FaceID which works flawlessly even as I’ve lost 20 pounds and the
shape of my face has changed fairly significantly over the last year.

Most of all, I can actually _type_ on the X, whereas when I go back to the
kids’ SEs I can’t figure out how I ever got anything done on that thing at
all.

Headphone jack? Where we’re going, we don’t need _jacks_.

The one and only downside of the X is that it must, must be in a case. I never
put my iPhones in cases and never managed to crack one. The X with its all
glass back, super slim profile, and curved edges is just too damn slippery.

The bonus of putting the $1,000+ device in a case is that the camera bump
disappears and the thickness ends up just about right for me.

Wireless charging has been great, especially once I got one that held the
phone raised up instead of flat (easier to position on just one axis) and
rated for 10W.

The size of the X I feel is so much better than the SE and still perfectly
usable one handed.

I really really don’t miss the home button. I find it so damn clunky on the SE
now after getting to live without it on the X, and particularly double
clicking home (versus the swipe up and to the right on the X) is just tedious.

I assume the extra waterproofing you get without the home button has literally
saved my device several times by now.

I had an iPhone 4. And 5. And 5s. It’s a beautiful device. But it’s by no
means an insurmountable pinnacle of design.

I honestly haven’t look that closely at the new lineup, but I’m just not
currently in the market for an upgrade. The X covers every use case and leaves
me wanting nothing. The home buttons on all my iPhones always wore out, got
sticky, or eventually unresponsive after a few years. I’m somewhat curious
what will ultimately take down my X, if I don’t drop it hard, I can’t see what
about it could possibly wear out.

~~~
brian-armstrong
You are so so wrong about the jack

~~~
wilsonnb3
Nah, people are going to stop complaining about the jack by the end of the
year.

Using a lightning adapter is pretty painless. People just don't like change
and love to complain.

------
expathacker
Last year my iPhone 5 died while on a flight, so I stopped in duty free to buy
a new one. I was about to pickup an iphone X when I realized that I couldn't
stand it up on it's end and take videos, which I do on a daily basis when
practicing my instrument. There was an iphone SE 128GB sitting next to the
iphone X for less than 1/2 the price ... I expect to use this phone for
another 3 years until they've slowed iOS down enough to make it unusable.

Unexpectedly, the killer feature for me ended up being, "Can I record myself
drumming without needing some stupid attachment?"

------
webkike
I just preorded a new iPhone XS to replace my pixel, but I think I have to
agree.

The iPhone 5s was the first iPhone I ever bought and the experience was simply
magical. The phone itself was so beautiful, and the operating system just gave
it this unbeatable cohesion.

I hope the iPhone XS can replicate at least some of that feeling, and I'm
willing to let it. But I'm also skeptical of that.

------
krisleipus
I guess Apple strategy for this is: if you need secondary device for
situations where it is uncomfortable to use your primary big screen iPhone -
buy Apple Watch cellular, if you just want cheap entry to iOS - there is older
gen phones (iPhone 7 for this year). Probably those who just want a small
primary phone is a niche (and not very profitable) market.

------
MBCook
As a developer the SE is a pain because the screen is so much smaller
(especially horizontally) than every other model. Things that fit on other
iPhones are big issues on the SE.

This will make life easier in the long run. And I’m guessing this is true for
Apple too.

But I get why people loved them. I like the 6 screen size and don’t want to go
back, but the SE feels ‘right’ somehow.

~~~
ianai
There are ways they could fit a higher resolution and screen into that form
factor. They’re just not interested in breaking their notch trend.

~~~
Bud
Every part of this is wrong. But the "notch trend" bit is hilarious. The idea
that the notch is a "trend" Apple started on purpose, rather than a design
element that was necessitated by making a full-screen phone that still needs
to have 9 sensors and devices pointing forwards is laughable enough, but the
idea that Apple would refuse to implement another design because of the "notch
trend" is full-on goofy. Apple doesn't think or work that way.

------
osrec
The little cross in the corner of tech crunch articles is very annoying,
especially since it redirects you to some clunky, slow loading news
aggregation page. Also the page redirects you as you scroll past the end of
the article. If you scroll down, then back up, the article is no longer there!
Absolutely bizarre and aggravating UI/UX...

------
bigwheeler
The SE or it’s equivalent will be back. It’s going to be smaller than the XS,
with an edge to edge display, no home button, and no headphone jack. I think
it’ll be in the next 6 months, but if not, within 12 for sure. It just makes
sense. The only reason we didn’t get one this week is to keep the “new” lineup
simple.

------
dpeck
I don’t know about best, but I do love the form factor and wish they had
refreshed it. I’ll end up getting an Xs but I’ll miss having a phone
comfortably in my pocket.

I guess the emerging market play didn’t work out? Or perhaps the Chinese
market got to where large portions could afford the oversized screens sooner
than expected?

------
graeme
I hope they make another. I'm on the 8. The X's screen is too large for me to
use comfortably.

I would happily buy an SE2 and use that. Wouldn't mind a higher price either
if it had specs to match the larger ones. I just want to be able to use a
phone one handed and not be too distracted by it.

------
squozzer
Damn. The SE is my fave too. BUT, I only owned a 4s prior. So my experience is
rather limited. My GF has a 5c, and the SE is lighter than a 5c.

The 6 and later versions were too big, for bigger screen needs I have an iPad
mini. Which also seems on a glide path to obsolescence.

If we were limited to one Apple mobile device per person by decree, then maybe
the bigger iPhone would make sense.

Understanding that Apple wants to avoid hyper-customization a la IBM PS/2 AND
wants to maintain an air of avant-garde, some decent products have to be
sacrificed.

A poster made a comment about working with the SE's limitations when designing
apps for the SE. Some apps (such as Amazon) looked very crowded on my SE.
Another (Manhattan Metal Prices) looks great

Maybe the SE died because it forced unwanted simplicity on app devs.

------
michaelchisari
I was really looking forward to getting the SE 2 now that my iPhone 8 contract
is up. :/

------
ksec
I just think they are planning to launch a Xr Mini next year. With the iPhone
SE body size they could fit it with 4.7" Display.

If they had kept the iPhone SE in the lineup, and introduce Xr next year, the
reaction from people will likely be Apple bump the price of small iPhone from
$349 to $599 / $649 ( Assuming $100 to $150 cheaper than Xr )

Now that iPhone SE is gone. They can make a new iPhone entry next year.
Instead of replacing something with a more expensive model, they are giving
you something new. It makes you value it differently. I think that is how it
is going to work out next year.

iPhone 8 > iPhone Xr > iPhone Xs. Each with two different Display size.

------
myrandomcomment
So I have had pretty much every iPhone. I did like the 5's size. I had a 6 and
6P and skipped the 7. The P was to big. I have an X now and did not thing I
would like it (carrier was willing to give $300 trade in on the 6P for an X).
I LOVE it. The face unlock rocks. It is a bit bigger then I want but I can
ride the train (others comments here) and use it with one hand. Just need to
hold it a bit more towards the middle of the hand. The OLED screen is amazing
and the camera is pretty good. That being said if they made a smaller X I
would get it. I have also switched to CarPlay for pretty much everything while
driving.

------
dbg31415
I bought an SE as a burner phone.

I got sick of switching SIM cards when I traveled.

Anyway, grew to really love it.

The size is perfect. It's flat and perfect without a case.

Biggest feature: It has Apple Pay, a home button, and a thumb reader... I feel
like such a putz trying to use Apple Pay on the X... like, "Hey hold on, Mr.
Merchant, I have to take my sunglasses off and smile at my phone for it to
authorize my credit card..."

I hate that we have lost the thumb reader. Facial recognition isn't better,
doesn't feel more polished, and we just threw out something damn near perfect
for something that's meh at best.

------
laktak
There was also an article & discussion in wired
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17985855](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17985855)

------
evv
This is a well written article, but I can't help but wonder.. was TechCrunch
inspired by my response yesterday to their XR article? The thought makes me
chuckle.

[https://twitter.com/EricVicenti/status/1040376193881595904](https://twitter.com/EricVicenti/status/1040376193881595904)

"The people’s iPhone is still the SE.. made for human-sized hands, includes
TouchID, headphone jack, is reasonably priced, and is the lightest phone
they’ve ever shipped..."

------
beaner
I feel this way about the Nexus 6p, another beautiful phone that will never be
back. These phones had a kind of identity that modern ones don't. Nowadays
they're all the same.

~~~
noir_lord
I got a Nokia 6.1 (new model) and it's absurdly good for the money and I truly
love the design.

The black and copper looks premium against my GF's iPhone 8, It's easy to
hold, it's milled out of aluminium and strongly built, it's smooth, fast
(Android One is great).

And it cost a fifth of what an iPhoneX costs here.

I even liked their cheeky piss take of the Johnny Ive videos.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qmJitfThItk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qmJitfThItk)

~~~
robocat
Seconded - we bought a Nokia 7+ for work for Android 9 beta testing (cheapest
phone that gets beta updates). Nice hardware and everyone in the office likes
how it looks - I'm using it as my everyday phone.

iPhone SE topic: are there any manufacturers that take older iPhone model guts
and repackage them with different bodies and screens?

I would love to use an iPhone (Google doesn't do privacy) but I can't justify
spending 2 to 3 times the price on something I regularly break or lose... (I
generally avoid fragile expensive utility items).

~~~
noir_lord
Nokia are killing it, one of the reasons I bought this was because android one
makes testing on latest chrome/OS a lot simpler.

I use an iPad mini for safari testing because iPhones are so damn expensive, I
can at least borrow my GF's in a pinch.

------
jarym
Personally I love big screen phones - I don’t talk much on them but do use he
web a lot so it makes sense.

My mum thought only talks on her phone and she really likes something small
and simple. We got her an SE to avoid going the Android route... if her SE
needs replacing and we can’t find an apple replacement then it will have to be
the Android route.

------
erikpukinskis
The irony is that when the Android phablets came out, Jony Ive got on camera
and said unequivocally: “we tested it and the iPhone 5 form factor is the
right size for single handed use.”

I wish he would just explain his thinking on this. It’s such a fundamental
design decision.

------
beeskneecaps
I love reading all of these comments by my fellow SE lovers. We should setup a
huge meetup in SF to protest.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhoneSE/](https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhoneSE/)

------
dreamcompiler
Killing their own good ideas is what Apple does best. Magsafe. Firewire.
Cheese grater Mac Pro. Appletalk. Rosetta. Pre-2015 MBP. Original iMovie and
iWork apps. The list goes on.

~~~
wilsonnb3
I'm pretty sure they didn't remove firewire from the MacBook line until the
Retina came out, which had USB 3 and Thunderbolt. Both of which are faster
than Firewire.

------
acoye
R is the new SE. The profitability was too low on SE or was not shouting
enough ´luxury´ so they retired it for a more expensive yet still value
targeted new model.

------
joelrunyon
Why do people keep making phones that are closer to tablets?

I've had an iPhone for 8+ years and starting to look at other more reasonably
sized options.

------
alexnewman
Totally dropping apple, when they drop SE

------
neuralRiot
The iphone 4,5, SE looks like made by Porsche design which i love.

------
ConcernedCoder
My 6s might as well be dead, with each os update it runs slower and slower...
now just scrolling the screen lags to a level that makes it mostly unusable...
thanks Apple.

~~~
matwood
Get the battery checked and replaced if needed. Then install iOS 12 in a few
days.

~~~
ConcernedCoder
1\. Battery was replaced 3 months ago 2\. I run it in "low power mode"
already, otherwise it's a brick. 3\. Battery Health (Beta) reports: \- Maximum
Capacity 100% \- Peak Performance Capability Your battery is currently
supporting normal peak performance

I can touch the screen and it acts as though nothing is happening...swipes,
taps, etc... then seconds later it will run through all the things I've been
trying to do all at once... pretty much unusable at this point.

------
jedanbik
iPhone SE wasn't waterproof.

------
Exuma
iPhone SE inferior to iPhone X in practically every way

~~~
pauljaworski
Internals? Duh. It came out years earlier.

Design? Nah. Some of us like a phone that fits comfortably in our hand and
pocket, and doesn't look like every other phone out there.

~~~
Exuma
The iPhone X fits perfect in my hand. I upgrade from iPhone 6 and didn't
notice any difference in size. Actually use it first.

When I have to use a button to open a phone now it feels like using a fax
machine. It's so incredibly sluggish, slow and clunky.

And, when I look at an iPhone with huge borders on the edge (iPhone X goes
right to the edge) it gives me claustrophobic anxiety because it's so small.

People are so afraid of change. Aside from the price, there's really no reason
not to upgrade.

~~~
greatquux
Well that's just like your opinion man.

Seriously I love the SE too. And I was coming from large screen Android world
to it as my first iOS device. Maybe they'll revive it by the time mine is
ready to die...

