
This shouldn’t be the image of Hack Day - toni
http://simonwillison.net/2009/Oct/19/hackday/
======
sh1mmer
And finally I can comment...

[http://developer.yahoo.net/blog/archives/2009/10/taiwan_ohd_...](http://developer.yahoo.net/blog/archives/2009/10/taiwan_ohd_apology.html)

I probably shouldn't comment much, but there is one thing I really want to say
for me, not the company. I hope we've done some good in the community, and
despite this mistake I hope that people will remember that. A bunch of us in
the office I work in, in California, do our best to promote women in tech
([http://www.flickr.com/photos/yahoo_women_in_tech/3799977956/...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/yahoo_women_in_tech/3799977956/in/photostream/)).
I hope you'll judge us (Yahoo!) by our actions, and that includes our ability
to say sorry when things aren't done right.

Tom

~~~
bobbob
Did Yahoo every appoligize for handing over information about the Chinese pro-
democracy protesters that China asked for some years back?

To not apologize for that is a much graver mistake than what you are currently
apologizing for.

------
petewarden
Here's my practical problem with this:

\- We're missing out on 50% of the people who could be good engineers.
Programming is a really effective tool for improving our world, so any waste
of talent is a Bad Thing.

\- Whatever the moral arguments, accepting go-go dancers at events sucks as a
way to attract women into our world.

Is shaming conference organizers the most important change we can make? Hell
no, but it's low-hanging fruit. It gives us a zero-effort way to advertise
that we as a community want more women here. If we can't even manage this, god
knows how we'll make any real changes.

It's pretty depressing to read this thread, I thought there was a widespread
consensus that the lack of women in computing was a problem. I'd be interested
to know if any of the commenters defending the conference agree or disagree
that it's important to get more women into our field?

~~~
steveklabnik
> I'd be interested to know if any of the commenters defending the conference
> agree or disagree that it's important to get more women into our field?

I think it's important to get intellegent people into the field, regardless of
gender. However, it's foolish to judge a conference in a far-off land by our
system of morals.

~~~
diego_moita
> However, it's foolish to judge a conference in a far-off land by our system
> of morals.

I strongly disagree.

The country where I live (Canada) is the fourth in my life (after Portugal,
Angola and Brazil). I also visited more than a dozen other.

The system of morals that people embrace in Canada is one of the main reasons
I choosed to live here. And I believe that I have enough multicultural
experience to say that no, it isn't foolish.

Same cultures are better than others. How do you know? Because there is an
absolute in morals: don't do to others what you wouldn't want they did to you.
You can derive a lot of judgements from there.

~~~
jacquesm
Props to you for getting around and seeing that much of the world as a person
living there. It sure makes your argument carry a lot more weight.

Where are you in Canada ? (West, East, Middle ?) Have you gotten used to the
winters yet ?

------
neilk
It seems to me the real bug is that everyone assumes that a sexual performance
necessarily degrades the person doing it. Everyone seems to be making that
assumption, from the mouth-breather geeks who called up rent-a-lapdancer, to
the prudish, sometimes hypocritical, bloggers wagging their fingers.

Don't get me wrong; I understand the problem. Being asked to make the coffee
is fine. Being asked to make the coffee just because you're a woman is
reprehensible. The actions take place in a context, and just because there are
empowered women doing sex-charged performances in San Francisco doesn't mean
the event in Taiwan was empowering.

Still, I feel the disconnect from the sex-positive culture I know in SF, and
the generally sex-paranoid culture of corporate America. There are subcultures
at least where neither being 'professional' nor being very out front with your
sexuality matters at all to how respected you are. I kind of wish mainstream
culture would catch up. If people would just get that, they wouldn't have to
see a sexual performer as an inferior, and the nature of the entire exchange
would be different.

~~~
shiranaihito
_The actions take place in a context, and just because there are empowered
women doing sex-charged performances in San Francisco doesn't mean the event
in Taiwan was empowering._

Does it mean those women in Taiwan _weren't_ empowered then? Besides, maybe
that kind of thing is common in Taiwan, and nothing to get all worked up about
(especially on the other side of the planet).

To the women, it was probably just a business transaction, and the geeks
probably enjoyed it. No one got hurt or degraded.

------
yalurker
Yes, how dare someone on the other side of the world do something that doesn't
fit with contemporary American standards for what is professional! Clearly
this is the fault of the technology industry, as a whole. Just like the energy
industry is clearly not inclusive because of how middle-eastern oil-producing
countries treat women. </sarcasm>

Seriously, can we please stop seeking out any instance of anything
inappropriate and then using it to slander an entire industry? The fact that
something potentially sexist happened somewhere doesn't mean that
discrimination is rampant throughout the industry.

~~~
simonw
Firstly, I'm British.

Secondly, I'm not arguing that this incident proves our industry is sexist. My
argument is that the low number of women involved in our industry is a
problem, and one thing we can do to address that problem is to have a zero
tolerance attitude to this kind of thing.

Thirdly, I couldn't care less about "professionalism". The first London Hack
Day had people playing Faceball on stage! I care about behaviour that makes a
portion of the potential audience feel uncomfortable or unwelcome.

~~~
jlees
I imagine a far greater proportion of the potential audience consists of (guys
who get offended on behalf of women for sexist behaviour) than consists of
(women who may or may not care). On that basis this behaviour should be
stopped. Not because zero tolerance is the right answer; that way lies
political correctness gone mad.

~~~
jacquesm
Now why on earth would that get you modded down ?

I fully agree with you.

I'm a male and I would have been quite disappointed at this whole thing, and I
certainly don't get 'upset' at seeing scantily clad females, the beaches here
are full of them.

The problem is the context, as if women on a gathering like that have nothing
but 'decorative' functions, and as if all men would find such a display
appropriate.

I also think that regardless of how far from 'home' this happened if that's
yahoos' approach to this kind of event anywhere that it reflects bad on them
as a company. The apology that is linked to from here is actually pretty weak.

It shows a certain disrespect.

------
thirdape
People are way too sensitive. Looks like they hired Go Go dancers for a party.
Probably not the best idea in the world but people trying to use this as an
example of the "shame" of the IT worlds sexism are just grand standing. There
are not a lot of women in IT because up until recently it was considered a
mark against socially to be a nerd. Now with the growing popularity of nerd
culture and the high incentives to be in that field there will be a more
diverse crowd. Or maybe there will always be more men then women because women
are less interested in technological fields. Sorry if that's not a popular
opinion but I'm not interested in many fields of study and have not slammed
one for being in anyway discriminatory against me. It certainly won't be
because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are sending out masses of men wearing NO
MAAM t-shirts to tack no girls allowed signs on the the computer labs across
the country. If anything the same loosely regulated and relaxed environment,
common in many IT fields and shops, that would make them think nothing of
hiring dancers for a party is the same attitude that would welcome anyone
regardless of looks, sex, race, or anything else.

------
steveklabnik
> I’ve heard arguments that this kind of thing is culturally acceptable in
> Taiwan—in fact it may even be expected for technology events, though I’d
> love to hear further confirmation.

When in Taiwan...

I mean, not to rain on anybody's parade, and I'll say that I wouldn't be
expecting this at a conference either, but you shouldn't be holding Taiwan to
American standards.

Maybe I'm still too young.

~~~
megaduck
I strongly disagree. While living in China I encountered horrific racism and
sexism, both widely accepted as community standards. There was a human cost to
those "standards", and I grew to believe that we should _all_ be held to a
certain standard of behavior, regardless of our national origin or cultural
identity.

Disapproval of the current situation is how progress gets made in the world.
There was a time in this country when slavery was widely accepted and women
weren't allowed to vote. Those were the standards of the day, and they were
only shifted because a vocal minority stood up and cried out, "This is
wrong!".

Somebody always has to be the first to raise the bar.

~~~
steveklabnik
> I grew to believe that we should all be held to a certain standard of
> behavior, regardless of our national origin or cultural identity.

I guess this is just where we differ. I don't belive that one way of living is
inherently better than another; or that I have some moral imperative to make
others behave in a way that I see fit. Of course, I'd love them to, and if
asked the reason that I act differently, I'd be happy to explain.

I used to feel the way that you do. It's easy to get caught up in the "of
course, slavery is wrong! Of course, sexism is wrong!" But then it slowly
starts to bleed into "of course, we have to spread Democracy to Iraq," "of
course, we have to make laws that gay people can't marry"...

Moral superiority is how wars start. By making others' ways of life into the
literary Other, you're demonizing the very people you're trying to convince.

~~~
acdha
This is very easy to say, as someone privileged enough not to be affected by
the issue, and you're making an insane leap to say that criticizing routine
discrimination "is how wars start" or somehow imply that it leads to banning
gay marriage. It looks like you're missing the difference between suggestion
and coercion and, as far as "making others' way of life into the literary
Other" goes, well, I think a great way to do that is to assume that everyone
is choosing to engage in sexism rather than uncritically going along with the
status quo.

~~~
steveklabnik
> as someone privileged enough not to be affected by the issue

Yes, my position in life certainly has an effect on the truth value of my
statements.

> you're making an insane leap to say that criticizing routine discrimination
> "is how wars start"

Moral absolutism causes problems. "I'm better than them" causes problems. I'm
saying that morality is not cut and dry. You're treating it as though it is.

And it's certainly why people fight to ban gay marriage. Don't you see that,
"Women find stripping offensive, it drives them away, don't let that happen"
is the same thing as "We find homosexuality offensive, we can't let that
happen"? Those who feel they're on the moral high ground will do all kinds of
things to impose their morals on others.

> It looks like you're missing the difference between suggestion and coercion

In this case, you may be suggesting, but other comments here are certainly
imply coersion.

> assume that everyone is choosing to engage in sexism rather than
> uncritically going along with the status quo.

You're assuming that the woman there are offput by the 'strippers,' and that's
why they weren't attending the conference. I'm merely pointing out that that
may not be the case at all.

~~~
acdha
Other people still have problems even if you refuse to acknowledge them - and
your position in life does matter simply because you've never been forced to
acknowledge those problems' existence.

> Don't you see that, "Women find stripping offensive, it drives them away,
> don't let that happen" is the same thing as "We find homosexuality
> offensive, we can't let that happen"?

Well, sure, if you misrepresent the problem your argument looks better. Our
argument is quite simple: don't demean people. Demeaning women? Bad. Demeaning
gay people? Bad. Getting upset about the inability to use your religion as a
justification to demean people? Tough luck.

> You're assuming that the woman there are offput by the 'strippers,' and
> that's why they weren't attending the conference. I'm merely pointing out
> that that may not be the case at all.

Note that no one here is saying Yahoo should be shut down, hack day stopped,
etc. The only thing people are saying is that there should be a clear message
that this behaviour is wrong - and that we should be encouraging everyone to
recognize and refuse to participate in it. Conference strippers aren't the
only reason why the gender ratios are unequal but the attitude has gone a long
way towards making our field unattractive to anyone who doesn't fit a rather
unenviable stereotype.

~~~
userd
>Our argument is quite simple: don't demean people. Demeaning women? Bad.
Demeaning gay people? Bad

This is an empty argument because those who oppose gay marriage would not
accept the assertion that it is demeaning. You could just as easily claim that
allowing gay marriage is demeaning to heterosexuals. But let's pretend
everyone agrees it is demeaning. Isn't it acceptable to demean someone (fines,
imprisonment or other punishments) when someone makes some type of
transgression? In the case of gay marriage, the moral transgression would
clearly permit some of this.

------
DanielBMarkham
Tens of millions are in slavery as we speak.

People in some countries cannot get free information and the government
closely monitors what they watch and do.

Some countries still "harvest" organs from condemned prisoners to sell on the
open market.

And yet we find time to get outraged over a couple of pretty girls lap-dancing
a couple of geeks at some conference.

Modern morality is an interesting thing. It seems that it rests on how easy it
is to pass judgment, how many people will agree with you when you do, and
having the appropriate degree of self-flagellation.

~~~
alex_c
I usually don't agree with "don't solve problem X, because Y and Z are worse"
(society isn't exactly like prioritizing bugs), but in this case - right on.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
I think the best argument against the dancers is that it is tasteless -- or at
least seems so to most of the readers here. I honestly don't know if it seemed
tasteless to conference attendees or not. I also don't know if it was a major
part of the conference or could easily be skipped by those who didn't like it.

I try to be an easy-going guy. Nobody is being harmed here. More troubling is
the tendency to mouth-off about "easy" things like this while saying things
like "every culture is okay" when it comes to things like the secret police or
freedom of information. That just seems completely moronic to me.

------
nl
They did the same thing last year:
[http://developer.yahoo.net/blog/archives/2008/09/taiwan_open...](http://developer.yahoo.net/blog/archives/2008/09/taiwan_open_hac.html)

To quote: "The evening entertainment (Hack Girls) was an interesting contrast
to Girltalk at Sunnyvale Open Hack Day the weekend before."

Also on FlickR, from 2008:
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/myhsu/sets/72157607394199935/?p...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/myhsu/sets/72157607394199935/?page=2)

And: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/hackgirl/>

I can't find any kind of confirmation anywhere that this kind of thing is
considered normal for a business conference in Taiwan. Perhaps people are
confusing car shows (or arguably computer games shows) with a hack day?

~~~
michaelkeenan
I moved to Taiwan last year, and I can confirm that dancing girls are very
common in all kinds of irrelevant contexts, particularly expos. It's weird to
me, but I haven't heard any women here complaining about it.

------
danw
I've attended both the London Yahoo hackday's myself and found them
wonderfully well run by lovely people.

Personally, I would feel terribly uncomfortable if they had booked dancers
like this for entertainment. It is a bad idea for two differing reasons.

1\. I attend hackdays to build things. Not for loud bands, giant jenga or lap
dancing. The intention is hacking, surprisingly. Organisers should focus their
energy and resources on good wifi, nice apis, etc that appeal to the hackday
audience instead of any form of auxiliary entertainment.

2\. There seems to be a _slight_ gender imbalance at hackdays. I don't think
lap dancers are going to help that.

Even if this is the local 'norm', Yahoo hackday is a global brand. When people
see behaviour like this, it marks the whole tech community as either
misogynistic or ladish.

------
alex_c
I wonder how many people are genuinely outraged, and how many are outraged
because it is the expected response.

~~~
antonovka
I wonder how many people are bordering on asperger's levels of social
ineptitude and insensitivity due to the fact that it's _really easy_ to be
insensitive when you're on top.

~~~
alex_c
Insensitivity and oversensitivity can both be inappropriate. It's always safer
to be oversensitive than insensitive, though. Wouldn't you agree that becomes
a problem when it masks how people actually feel about a subject?

Side note: I move to officially recognize mentions of Asperger's when
discussing social situations as HN's custom version of Godwin's law.

~~~
antonovka
_Wouldn't you agree that becomes a problem when it masks how people actually
feel about a subject?_

No -- I think the fact that it's considered culturally inappropriate to
express clearly racist and sexist opinions is a benefit -- it's the first step
to stemming the spread of that cultural virus.

 _Side note: I move to officially recognize mentions of Asperger's when
discussing social situations as HN's custom version of Godwin's law._

It was an intentional reference to an endemic lack of social graces in
technology culture and the oft-referenced syndrome. It was not an ad hominem
argument.

~~~
alex_c
_No -- I think the fact that it's considered culturally inappropriate to
express clearly racist and sexist opinions is a benefit -- it's the first step
to stemming the spread of that cultural virus._

I disagree - and I think the fact that my first, intentionally ambiguous,
comment was modded down (by some) is a hint why. I had the temerity to as much
as HINT that some people are not honestly outraged by this, and was
immediately shot down.

The problem is not with expressing clearly racist or sexist opinions - the
problem is that any such subject automatically becomes a minefield, and anyone
except the clueless (or the bored) will automatically either adopt a "how
COULD they" attitude, or keep silent. There is no discussion, no explanation
of why it is wrong (even if it should be self-evident), just something
bordering on a witch hunt.

Now, say someone with a sexist view walks into the conversation. Having an IQ
higher than, say, a garden gnome, they immediately pick up on the "right"
thing to say, and join in the chorus - possibly even becoming the loudest
voice. Have they actually learned anything or been convinced of anything,
other than how to act?

I'm just generally not a big believer in taboos. I feel that talking about
problems - HONESTLY talking about problems - is better than pretending they
don't exist.

Edit: and now you got modded down. See, this is what I mean - it's such a
polarized topic, it makes it almost impossible to have a normal conversation.

------
gord
I was surprised in other parts of Asia, how common a practice it is to engage
'race girl' PR staff for the most civic of events.

For an open source promotion we had in Thailand I interviewed several stunning
PR girls [tough job but someone has to do it].. Fortunately among these air
hostesses and models to be were some students with genuine interests beyond
makeup and fame.

The impeccably dressed PR beauties we chose, did a fantastic job of
translating the message of free software 'as in beer and freedom'. We gave
demos and handed out 12 thousand promo folders with Gimp and Blender on CD
over 4 days. Exhausting but fun.

~~~
mahmud
Not in China. You are not getting a lap-dance in public from a Chinese woman.

------
dmoney
Thought experiment: early stage startup A, which consists of 3 males throws a
private launch party at which there are female strippers. It's unprofessional,
but at this point it doesn't matter because it's just a group of friends who
happen to be running a company. Startup B, consisting of three females, same
situation with male strippers.

Later A and B merge and, to celebrate, throw an event called Hackers and
Strippers, which is open to the general (adult) hacking population and
features male and female strippers and a guitar shower room. Hard to imagine
any hacking gets done, but a good time is had by all. The actual logistics of
such an event, and whether or not it would offend their customer bases, are
left as an exercise to the reader.

AB grows to become the 3000 employee AB Corp. When they IPO they throw Hackers
and Strippers Worldwide. Same kind of party on a larger scale. Unprofessional?
You betcha.

Independent of sexism, at what point does unprofessionalism become a problem?

~~~
dotBen
I read this twice and I'm still confused as to what this has to do with the
OT?

~~~
dmoney
Part of the argument is that this is sexist. Part is that it's unprofessional.
If there were also male strippers the event would no longer be sexist, only
unprofessional. Would it still deserve moral outrage? Would it still be
counter-productive?

I'm just exploring permutations here. I think half-naked dancing girls would
make it hard to get any hacking done. But that doesn't necessarily make it a
bad event (aside from sexism). A bad event to hack at, maybe.

~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
I'm still trying to figure out where the guitar shower room comes in >.>?

(This thread is the first google result for "guitar shower room.")

~~~
pushingbits
Hah. I tried to google it, too.

Maybe it's an xkcd reference?

<http://xkcd.com/305/> www.wetriffs.com

~~~
uriel
XKCD is sexist!!! /s

------
maudineormsby
For shame, for shame - forget where it's held, this kind of action reflects on
the industry as a whole.

Couldn't agree with this article more. The lack of female talent in this
industry is a real shame, and excludes a perspective that could be extremely
helpful.

~~~
jlees
It's the kind of image that has been prevalent in the gaming industry for
eons. I wonder how disparate the percentages of female hackers (if you can
define hacker sufficiently) versus women in gaming are. Certainly in gaming
we're pretty much used to it by now - and it is slowly changing.

Plus, as another poster says, 'when in Taiwan'; their culture's totally
different. If there is a gender imbalance specifically in Taiwanese or Asian
computing (and most of the female CS students I met were from China or Japan),
addressing it needs to take the culture into consideration - the miniskirted
lapdancers are a symptom, not the disease.

~~~
maudineormsby
True, but even when you have a disease, you start by treating the symptoms to
ease the discomfort. I can only imagine how uncomfortable women at these
conferences (what few there are) must be.

~~~
jlees
I _am_ a woman, in case that wasn't clear. I'm fine with the level of stuff
that goes on and is acceptable _in my culture_. And I worked in gaming,
covering booth-babe laden expos, for several years.

Guys don't need to get outraged for us. We can do that ourselves.

~~~
antonovka
Well, my wife is also in technology (a developer, not games) and isn't fine
with it. I'm glad you're OK with it, but there's nothing wrong with those that
aren't.

As a man, I'm not fine with the perception these ridiculous stunts create --
that men in technology are so socially retarded that we need organizers to
hire strippers and booth babes for us.

You wouldn't see this behavior at another professional conference -- you'd see
it from a subset of the attendees _AFTER_ the conference, where it's
appropriate.

~~~
uriel
> Well, my wife is also in technology (a developer, not games) and isn't fine
> with it. I'm glad you're OK with it, but there's nothing wrong with those
> that aren't.

Nothing wrong, you can organize your own conferences in whatever way you like.

But if you act morally outraged at what others do in the conferences they
organize, don't expect much sympathy.

~~~
antonovka
_Nothing wrong, you can organize your own conferences in whatever way you
like._

... and you can lose out on the participation of a valuable subset of
contributors. This isn't a moral issue, it's a question of maturity, decorum,
and being inclusive.

 _But if you act morally outraged at what others do in the conferences they
organize, don't expect much sympathy._

Likewise, if you're a socially ignorant asshat, don't expect people to like
you.

Or come to your conferences.

Or invite you to speak at theirs.

------
ig1
While I don't think what they did was a good idea. Saying it causes a gender
imbalance seems unsupported.

Here's why: Which country has a great gender imbalance among technology
workers the USA or Taiwan ?

------
alexgartrell
I feel like people are missing the point.

You shouldn't be pissed about this because it'll hurt women's feelings. You
should be pissed because it makes developers look sad and pathetic and overly
horny. I'd be appalled to see that in any kind of professional/academic
setting.

WRT Women, I think the white knight stuff is hurting more than helping. They
don't need our protection from the perils of sexism, they just need us not to
be sexist and to know that they can handle it all by themselves.

~~~
donaq
_it makes developers look sad and pathetic and overly horny_

Not commenting on whether it's right or wrong, but erm, really? Do racing
drivers evoke those impressions? Because they sort of have the same thing at
car races.

~~~
alexgartrell
There isn't a preexisting stereotype of racing drivers being sad, pathetic,
overly horny. Public tends to look for perception reinforcers. This is one
example

------
coderdude
I find it weird that some tech guys, unlike nearly all normal men, get really
upset when fine women are in the picture. Would you rather the following image
continue to be the image of Hack Day and all other tech events?
<http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Funny/nyc_linux_users.jpg>

~~~
simonw
I'm personally embarrassed by the presence of "fine women" if they've been
paid just to show up - it makes tech guys look like the only time they get to
talk to a woman is if she's being compensated for it.

~~~
coderdude
I think that underscores an insecurity about your ability to interact with
attractive women. Strippers, exotic dancers, and eye candy in general have and
will remain a big part of male-only events. You can whine that there should be
more females and that is fine. If there were, and they cared, they would voice
out against it. This is not uncommon.

------
Mz
When I got my certificate in geographic information systems (GIS), it was an 8
week long intensive program where I spent 36 to 40 hours a week in class and
up to 20 more studying. GIS is a 2/3s male field and my classes were all about
2/3s male. The last week of school, it dawned on me that the majority of women
in my classes occupied the last two rows of seats. There were a few women who
sat various places. I was the only woman who consistently sat in the front
row. I also was one of only a few women to attend the graduation party. The
few other women left by about midnight. I stayed until about 4am. I was one of
the last people to leave. I've had people (usually women) make horrified
remarks about what a terrible (ie "immoral" -- good girls don't stay at
parties surrounded by male colleagues until 4am) and dangerous thing it was I
did to attend the graduation party.

I really have no way of knowing what lap-dancers at a hacking event might have
to do with sexism and discouraging the participation of women. But it's clear
to me that there are still very real social barriers to the full inclusion of
women in technical fields.

------
antonovka
Some of the disturbing arguments here demonstrate just how far we have to go
before women are celebrated as equals in technology.

Here's one techtalk I found to be quite enlightening:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmROmy5jT80>

Google TechTalks - Dr. Cornelia Brunner Associate Director, Center for
Children & Technology Education Development

Anyone have others they would recommend?

~~~
steveklabnik
Technology is possibly one of the most meritocratic fields that there are.
Programmers and scientists respect results, and generally are poor with the
surrounding social issues. I've never heard anyone say "oh, yeah, that paper,
too bad it's authored by a woman." or "I'd love to accept this patch, but I'm
not gonna bother looking, a girl wrote it." I've won (well, second place,
actually) a programming competition with a female partner.

I won't deny that there are few women around here. I think there were 14ish in
my program? But the problem won't be solved if you run around trying to make
special rules for the girls.

~~~
antonovka
_I won't deny that there are few women around here. I think there were 14ish
in my program? But the problem won't be solved if you run around trying to
make special rules for the girls._

"Don't hire strippers. No lap dances." aren't special rules for the girls.

 _Technology is possibly one of the most meritocratic fields that there are._

Yes, clearly there are no social issues and sexism in technology, which is why
we get blog posts about it from women who take issue with blatant examples of
sexism in technology.

Sarcasm aside, I can't recommend the above video highly enough.

~~~
Tichy
Do you seriously think the fewer number of women in IT is because of strippers
and lap dancers? Even though this is the first IT event I heard of that
includes lap dancers. But I guess all these years women were fearing this day
that there might be strippers at an event with computer nerds, at the other
end of the world nevertheless, so they chose to study history of arts instead.

~~~
antonovka
No, I think that the lack of women in IT is partially due to an endemic lack
of social inclusion, amply demonstrated by hiring strippers to give lap dances
at a technology conference.

~~~
Tichy
Most tech people never even have a chance to practice social inclusion with
tech aspiring females. I think the problem starts before that (if it is a
problem - just like the missing male nurses).

------
Tichy
So set up another Hack Day without Go Go Dancers and go there instead of the
Go Go Dancer day?

Or somehow trademark the "Hack Day" label so that you can enforce a "no go go
dancers" rule. I suppose atm anybody can call an event a "Hack Day", so there
is no point in trying to enforce any particular style.

------
sown
Those pictures make me feel very uncomfortable.

