
ZTE Open Firefox OS phone is available on eBay - Supermighty
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271258990669
======
rsync
57 comments into this thread and not one mention of the string "baseband".

Surprising, as that is far and away the most interesting thing that could
happen in this space, and it continues to not happen.

Depending on the phone and the implementation of the baseband firmware, your
carrier could have as deep as _DMA access_ to that computer in your hand.

Osmocom is interesting, but it is 2G only, works (almost) exclusively on euro-
GSM handsets, and is barely making calls at this point.

This (the op) is all very interesting, but all that matters is getting an open
baseband firmware that you can protect from the carrier.

~~~
wmf
There's no talk about basebands because there's nothing anyone can do about
it.

~~~
throwaway2048
just like nobody could run anything except a proprietary operating system in
the 80s?

------
wslh
I hope other organizations related to free software follow this route. Where
is GNU Mobile? Debian Mobile? FreeBSD Mobile? etc, etc.

In six days ends the Ubuntu Edge "fundraising" but I don't think this is the
way to go. If few people like Linus Torvalds ignited a revolution why the same
is not happening on the mobile space with less than $ 32mm? Even starting
without big expectations about the market penetration because probably in a
few years we will buy generic mobile phones in the same way that we buy PCs
today.

I think the priority is to have a good native UI there. We already have a lot
of OSes to choose from.

~~~
kleiba
Generally, rms does not advocate free hardware (free as in freedom). You might
be interested in this article from 1999:

[http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/1999062200505NWLF](http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/1999062200505NWLF)

~~~
aclevernickname
I think you're misrepresenting RMS. In that article, he is mostly saying that
hardware cannot be properly copyrighted/copylefted, and then pushes for open
access to hardware interface specifications.

The closest to "not advocat[ing] free hardware" I can see in the article is
where RMS states that there is (at that time) no way to download hardware the
way we download software. correct me if I'm wrong.

~~~
kleiba
Well, if I misrepresented him then certainly not intentionally. However,
please have a look at this talk by rms where he addresses the question of free
hardware in more detail:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA&t=7m1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA&t=7m1s)

------
untog
I'm very positive about FFOSes future, but if you're thinking of buying one
today, bear in mind that you will be buying into an ecosystem that is under
very heavy development.

My dev phone is very, very slow. I couldn't use it as my daily driver. But I
look forward to the time when I can.

~~~
felideon
Out of curiosity, are you running the latest FxOS build, etc.? I know Engadget
has an article somewhere saying the lagginess improved a bit.

I ordered one in order to replace my feature phone. Although the phone doesn't
crash nor would I call the UI feedback on pressing a button "laggy", it
certainly isn't fast.

~~~
untog
As best I know I am, yes- I see relatively frequent "System Update"
notifications and apply them whenever I get them.

~~~
JoeAcchino
So you don't need to build a new Firefox OS release on your PC and flash it,
the phone will just update itself?

~~~
fzzzy
Firefox OS includes over the air updates. You can also build your own and
flash it if you want.

------
johnchristopher
From Belgium:

Unfortunately, access to this particular item has been blocked due to legal
restrictions in some countries. We are blocking your viewing in an effort to
prevent restricted items from being displayed. Regrettably, in some cases, we
may prevent users from accessing items that are not within the scope of said
restrictions because of limitations of existing technology. Please accept our
apologies for any inconvenience this may cause, and we hope you may find other
items of interest on eBay.

What legal reasons are preventing ebay from displaying it ? Buying I might
understand but not displaying the item ?

At least this one works: [http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZTE-Open-3G-Unlocked-
Firefox-OS-Ce...](http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZTE-Open-3G-Unlocked-Firefox-OS-
Cellphone-Orange-Ebay-
exclusive-/171104024854?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item27d6983916)

~~~
dendory
I can see it from Canada, but I can't buy it, they only ship to the US.

~~~
tephra
Swede here, can't seem to buy it from ebay.us.uk either seems some countries
are blocked from getting it. :(

------
aroch
I am amused that the zte_us seller email address is: Livinglife9012@yahoo.com

------
themckman
Bought one. For $80 and apps built on web technologies, there's got to be
SOMETHING I can do with this thing...

~~~
alexyoung
Maybe you could make a phone call to someone.

~~~
warcode
It is certainly a phone.

~~~
herge
You never heard of the Openmoko?
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko))

------
peterwwillis
Am I the only person left on the planet who pines for tactile buttons in a
small device I can use with one hand?

~~~
drbawb
I still look for tactile buttons, but not when it comes to a handset.

For instance: I don't plan to own a car that incorporates an in-dash
entertainment/nav system w/ a touch-only interface. (My only notable exception
would probably be a Tesla vehicle.)

When picking out an aftermarket head unit: I look for tactile controls that I
can operate, _without looking_, using one hand. I've passed up some superior
equipment (from an audio standpoint) simply because it has a touch-screen, an
unintuitive interface, or poor tactile feedback.

The reason I don't apply these same restrictions to my taste in handsets is
simple: I don't use my phone when I'm distracted. The phone itself _is_ a
distraction. So long as the interface is responsive and fluid I don't
particularly care about feedback, because the phone typically has my undivided
attention whenever I'm using it. I only pine for tactile feedback when the
device is to be used in conjunction with an activity that requires a
concentrated effort.

~~~
kamjam
Funny, years ago a friend of mine refused to go touchscreen phone, because he
was able to send a text message without looking at the phone as it had actual
buttons.

I'm more like you, but I like to have a physical button on my phone for the
camera. I don't find the on-screen camera button user friendly, esp for half-
press focus/exposure. It severely limits my choice of phone though...

~~~
peterwwillis
I was the same as your friend. And unlike drbawb, I never gave my phone my
undivided attention.

Back in the day, PC gamers would learn quick repetitive sequences of key
presses, sometimes with specific time delays. It would allow you to quickly
select what you wanted so you could continue gaming in real time. I used
phones the same way.

End, star, menu, up, select, up, up, select,
"4390416046662023020548853052831,down,right,0225509680460,long 3,long 0",
select, select, end, keylock.

I would send that text to my girlfriend while I was driving - while the phone
was still in my pocket. It's impossible to do today with a smartphone.
Luckily, dumb phones still have interfaces that respect certain rules of user
input, and have simple single-tasking schedulers that obey your every command
without hesitation. The only downside is the lack of good cameras, but the GPS
nav and very minimal browsers give me almost all the functionality I need.

For reference, the best T9 texting phones i've ever used were Sony Ericsson.
They were european-designed for a market that had long since embraced texting,
and made it as natural, efficient and intuitive as possible. Oh the glory
days...

[The text I sent above? "Hey i'm gonna be a little late, call you in 30"]

~~~
kamjam
Haha, that's awesome. I'm guessing you were 30 mins late pretty often then? :)
I never had the capacity to learn all the key combo's, I do remember hearing
about competitions to find the fastest texter, going with somwthing like 100
words a minute or something.

I had Sony Ericssons, Motorolas but the Nokia interface worked best for me (I
had my Nokia N95 for a LONG time, 4 or 5 years). I found it came down to
whatever you were used to, since the placement of the keys and combos were
different (for things like commas, apostrophies etc) between the different
brands.

------
5vforest
Finished Paypal checkout: "You sent a payment of 79.99 USD to
Livinglife9012@yahoo.com"

wtf?

~~~
felideon
Haha, yeah. I noticed that while rushing to buy it a few minutes before having
to leave the house to drop off my son at school. It hit me on my way to work,
"Wait, who exactly did I just send $80 to?"

Then I checked the email confirmation and noticed the seller was zte_us. Whew.

------
scribu
Just bought one, thinking that missing apps won't be a problem, since I only
really use a few:

    
    
        - awesome web browser? check.
        - maps? check.
        - hipMenu? fail. :(
    

I don't know how they did it, but they actually got the majority of the food
joints in the city where I live in the app, with a nice consistent interface.
Most places also have websites, but they're horrible to use.

------
devy
There is another listing with a price tag of $162.50. Other than those shipped
from Hong Kong and without original packaging, I don't see any differences.

[http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZTE-Open-Firefox-OS-GSM-Unlocked-
Cel...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZTE-Open-Firefox-OS-GSM-Unlocked-
Cellphone-/271257428033?pt=Cell_Phones)

------
acrich
I wouldn't trust ZTE all that much. They have a record of bribes,
surveillance, and security holes. See the Wikipedia article:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZTE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZTE) and
especially this: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-zte-phone-
idUSB...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-zte-phone-
idUSBRE84H08J20120518)

------
Casseres
It looks like they're sold out (985 sold). Does anyone know if they are
selling any more? I couldn't find any information on the Firefox OS official
site.

------
bjm1
Although I would say that the release of this first phone is very awesome, it
does need to at least support 4G before it will be purchased and used by most
people.

~~~
AlexanderDhoore
I was going to tell you that "the countries this phone is targeted at don't
even have 4G". But what do you know: Russia, India, Brazil, all have 4G
networks [1]. That's really impressive...

[1]
[http://www.worldtimezone.com/4g.html](http://www.worldtimezone.com/4g.html)

~~~
k_bx
\+ it doesn't ship anywhere besides US

~~~
mike-cardwell
It ships to the UK too

------
protomyth
Can this be used as a wifi device without the cell plan?

~~~
fzzzy
Yes

edit: but you will have to wait for a later release (1.2 I think) for webrtc
support to be able to make voice calls without a cell plan.

------
bifrost
Just bought one, we'll see if it lives up to the hype. I did need an unlocked
phone anyways so this was a good excuse to buy something neat...

~~~
bifrost
Just got mine. So far I'm kinda unimpressed. Its key-sense is clunky/latent,
the camera is a little dark. Browsing is OK, youtube works, other video stuff
doesn't. The orange is not as horrible as I thought it would be. Haven't been
able to make a call with it yet since I don't have a good SIM for it, but $80
for an unlocked phone is a good deal any way you look at it...

------
italophil
Anybody know what SIM size it uses? I have a hard time finding that info.

~~~
dschep
IIRC it uses a micro SIM.

~~~
fabrice_d
No, it's using a mini SIM

------
aray
This appears to be the first device running the MSM7225A at 1GHz (many other
android devices use this, all at 600MHz or 800MHz).

Edit: also very surprised there's no bluetooth support.

~~~
fabrice_d
There is bluetooth support: bluetooth headsets and file transfer works. More
profiles are being added in the next releases.

------
foz
The specs say 320x480 px screen, which is a bit disappointing.

~~~
reidrac
I'm not an expert, but £59.99 is a very competitive price for an unlocked
smartphone.

~~~
rdtsc
A smartphone to be useful has to have applications and a market to get more
applications. A smart-phone that doesn't is no better than a an older locked
down brick or flip phone with pre-loaded vendor supplied 'apps'

~~~
untog
No. A smartphone has a fully competent web browser, which instantly places it
far, far higher than a brick or flip phone.

~~~
rdtsc
A user doesn't care what underlying technology it has. Even crappy phones have
some web browser on them. A user cares about thing like "Can I get Shazam
installed?" or "What about my Facebook app and the game I saw my cousin play
on his iPhone?" If the answer if no, they don't care what magic soup of
technology acronyms there are inside.

~~~
untog
You're putting barriers up where there are none. A user cares about "can I get
Facebook", and with a modern smartphone browser, the answer is "yes".

Obviously there are fewer choices available than in the iTunes Store, but the
phone is also incredibly cheap when compared to an iPhone.

------
brianbreslin
What carriers does it support in the US?

~~~
aroch
You couldn't scrolled down a few inches to see:

    
    
        Support US 3G NETWORK
        2G NETWORK:GSM 850/900/1800/1900
        3G NETWORK:UMTS 850/1900 
    

Which is any GSM carrier and, depending on your area, 3G from ATT and Tmo or
just ATT + all the MVNO's, US Cellular and other smaller regionals that lease
from ATT

~~~
ToastyMallows
So how would I go about using this phone to call someone or text someone, I'd
have to get a plan through AT&T first? Would they even support my phone? Or am
I understanding this wrong.

~~~
aroch
Since you're binging your own phone and its 3G limited, your best bets for
cheap plans is an ATT PAYG plan [0] and I would forgo the data plan or
StraightTalk [1]. If you want data, you can probably get away with ATT's
'basic' phone unlimited data plan (Honestly, I would consider a FfOS a feature
phone and not a smartphone) for $35 a month. Or a StraightTalk ~$44 a month
unlimited plan that doesn't care about feature phone / smartphone.

I personally I have a Tmo sim that I have preloaded with ~100min call time and
100MB of data for emergency use + an ATT sim with similar (I have an actual
ATT contract as well). You'll have to buy a sim, or if you get lucky, both Tmo
and ATT have 'sales' where you can get the SIM for free

[0]:
[http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/plans/prepaidplans.html](http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/plans/prepaidplans.html)

[1] [http://www.straighttalk.com](http://www.straighttalk.com)

~~~
felideon
"(Honestly, I would consider a FfOS a feature phone and not a smartphone.)"

You would. I hope to God that AT&T will, too. The whole "you -must- have a
data plan if you have a smartphone" is ridiculous.

In any case, I don't think they have automatic 'smartphone' detection, and if
they do, they probably won't add ZTE Open to their list any time soon.

By the way, I didn't know AT&T had a 'basic' phone data plan. Will have to
look into that. I -do- happen to have a feature phone now, so it won't be hard
to convince them to give me that option.

~~~
GzkpAWpQXAfVYFs
Not many know/do this, but it's possible to have a smartphone without a
dataplan (or at least is for the gophone plans). Walk into a store and ask for
them to set a SIM card up for you. Tell them you don't have the flip phone
with you (if they ask) and they'll likely program the card for an all 1's
IMEI. You might be able to do this yourself online as well if you purchase one
from their store , but I'm not positive.

Once you have your 1111111111111111 IMEI SIM card, cut it down to size if
necessary, turn off cell data on your smartphone, pop the card in, and power
cycle your device. I've had this running successfully on a few different
devices (iPhone 3gs, Nexus 4, Samsung Galaxy) for the last 2-3 years. I use
their 2-dollar a day plan (free to receive texts, only get charged if you
respond or make a call) with the majority of my usage over WiFi only - but I
still receive texts for free and can respond/call in an emergency. Costs me
~8.33 a month.

------
yamill
just bought one. looking forward to developing for firefox os.

------
okso
Will this become the new Raspberry Pi of smartphones ?

------
Matti
US only shipping for now.

~~~
kurt_
For EU: [http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZTE-Open-3G-Unlocked-Firefox-OS-
Ce...](http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZTE-Open-3G-Unlocked-Firefox-OS-Cellphone-
Orange-Ebay-exclusive-/171104024854?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item27d6983916)

~~~
unicornporn
But it is not at all for all EU countries. I'm in Sweden and it's on the darn
"Excludes" list. Very weird.

~~~
kyriakos
surprisingly enough they send to my country (Cyprus) which is not even
mainland and they don't send to Estonia which is supposed to be one of
Europe's start-up centers

------
patrickocoffeyo
Just bought one. :)

------
tuananh
crap. doesn't ship to my country : (

