
Exercise, fasting shown to help cells shed defective proteins - prostoalex
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/02/exercise-fasting-shown-to-help-cells-shed-defective-proteins/
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foxyv
Fasting is possibly the most effective and powerful health tool I have come
across. The only issue I have had with fasting is the intense energy levels I
get during a fast make it hard to sit in an office 8 hours. My primate brain
screams at me to get out and hunt/gather. Kinda stressful. I can't drink as
much coffee either because I'm already wired.

~~~
crescentfresh
My sleep patterns get completely messed up on my fasts. I'll sleep for 4 hours
and then wide-awake. I switch back to normal eating and I get a full 8hrs
sleep that night.

It made me think I was doing something wrong but then the more I thought about
it, maybe I just don't need more than those 4hrs of sleep when I'm fasting.

~~~
astura
A lot of people can't sleep when hungry, that's not uncommon.

~~~
newnewpdro
The actual feeling of being hungry doesn't persist when fasting.

There's a phase, but it passes. It's fairly well known that operating in fat-
burning mode puts one in a different head space. It's one of the features
commonly touted by advocates of the ketogenic diet, which experientially is
very similar. There's a mental alertness and clarity, in my experience it's
accompanied by elevated energy levels as well.

It seems to me that it arguably benefits the species to fire on all cylinders
in periods of scarcity, as it improves chances of locating food before
starvation. In periods of plenty, there's no urgent need, so a more
conservative baseline mode of operating is advantageous as it saves fuel as
fat for the scarcity periods. Humans didn't evolve with grocery stores and
refrigeration, scarcity was a regular and mortal issue, our bodies evolved to
address it.

Whenever I fast it feels like I'm on a sustained upper of sorts, once the
hunger phase passes. It's kind of like being permanently wired, keyed up,
sometimes a little over eager. And yeah it can interfere with going to sleep,
similar to drinking coffee late in the day. It's not a problem in my
experience if the day is spent being physically active though. Which I think
makes perfect sense if we accept that this is an evolutionary trait improving
odds of finding/killing a meal. We're supposed to be actively locating next
meals when awake in this mode, not sedentary.

I've found it to be a valuable life hack and would argue everyone should at
least be familiar with the experience enough to know the initial hunger phase
is short-lived and what follows afterwards isn't unpleasant at all, and
actually advantageous in some aspects. There are many activities where not
having to bother with food/cooking/eating for a few days is game-changing,
this combined with elevated energy levels and alertness as well? It's like
magic. I never take food on day hikes anymore for instance. Instead I don't
eat for the 24-hours prior and just bring water. I'm well clear of the hangry
phase, and feel like running the entire thing (and if I'm alone, often do),
it's unreal. There's plenty of fat on my person to last weeks of fasting.

~~~
astura
I'm a very experienced faster, been doing it on and off for 17ish years; my
longest fast was five days. It's not true (for me) that "the actual feeling of
being hungry doesn't persist when fasting."

When I fast I'm fucking hungry, and that doesn't go away, though it becomes a
bit more manageable; the intensity of the hunger waxes and wanes.

>It's fairly well known that operating in fat-burning mode puts one in a
different head space... There's a mental alertness and clarity, in my
experience it's accompanied by elevated energy levels as well

Definitely never experienced anything like this. Quite the opposite really.

Though I do enjoy the sheer uncomfortableness I feel when fasting in a weird
sort of way, almost like feeling it makes the feed state feel so much better.

~~~
newnewpdro
That's not consistent with my experience at all.

Maybe there's a significant diet/lifestyle component? For example I don't
derive much of my happiness from the food I eat when not fasting. I have known
multiple people over the years who eat almost exclusively comfort foods and
it's the only thing keeping them out of depression. They would probably be
_very_ agitated by a multi-day fast.

My diet is pretty restricted in general, there's not a whole lot missing after
the transition into fasting in terms of my daily life experiences and rewards.
It's mostly a small burden has been removed.

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andrepd
I don't quite understand the fascination of the HN crowd with intermittent
fasting. To me it looks like just another "fad" diet: grand claims, a handful
of flawed or limited studies, establishing possible benefits, touted as proof
the whole thing is rock-solid.

My feeling is it gives off a certain "body hacking" vibe that HNers are
attracted to.

~~~
retzkek
> I don't quite understand the fascination of the HN crowd with intermittent
> fasting.

Well, have you tried it? Unlike many fad diets there's nothing to buy, no
long-term commitment, just one or a few days where you don't eat. You can do
some reading to find tricks to make it easier, but all it really takes is
willpower. Maybe it will do something for you, maybe not.

> a handful of flawed or limited studies

As much as we worship high quality, large-population, peer-reviewed studies,
ultimately the only study that matters is the n=1, yourself - only you can
find out what works for _you_.

~~~
mb_72
"... only you can find out what works for you."

How do you know one specific thing worked, and it wasn't something else? Or
just mere coincidence? As someone who has Crohn's disease I have lost track of
the times someone has said "oh, blah worked for this person" etc etc.... all
anecdotes, with no way of deciding whether there are side-effects that need to
be weighed-up. No thanks.

~~~
DoreenMichele
_How do you know one specific thing worked, and it wasn 't something else?_

Keep a journal.

Try to have an established routine, then try one and only one new thing at a
time.

Do a lot of reading to try to develop a mental model to fit it into.

~~~
andrepd
>Do a lot of reading to try to develop a _mental model_ to fit it into.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this.

~~~
DoreenMichele
There is a huge amount of info out there these days. Patients often know more
about their own condition than most doctors they will meet.

If you have never fasted before, you need to read up on fasting. If you want
to make dietary changes, you read up on lots of dietary stuff. Etc.

If you have a specific diagnosis, you can read up on the latest research into
that, plus related stuff. For example, I read stuff about genetics and the gut
biome because that helps me put things into context.

You do a thing and something happens. You note it and try to figure out what
the process is. Was it random? Was it coincidence? Was it causative? If so,
how? You build from there.

------
jedberg
Recently there has been a lot of talk about the intermittent fasting diet
(fast 16 hours, eat for 8). My friend is a doctor and started the diet himself
a few months ago, and takes his bloodwork every week. He says it's making huge
improvements in his cholesterol and other blood levels.

I've been trying myself recently and so far no big changes, although I have
lost a couple of pounds. But I think that's just because I had to cut out late
night snacking!

~~~
Brigadirk
Just curious: wouldn't this then show overwhelming health benefits or
decreased mortality in people who regularly skip breakfast, and simply eat
lunch and dinner?

~~~
jedberg
There's a whole book on the diet with a lot of science, but the very short
summary is, no, it doesn't quite work like that. For one, the recommendation
is to eat at the beginning of your day (skip dinner not breakfast). But also,
most people who eat like that don't actually limit themselves to eight hours.
That was basically how I was eating, skipping breakfast, but I was still
having a late night snack, and sometimes an early morning snack. I basically
just dropped the snacks, but that's not really the right diet.

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sidi09
I am curious about how these findings are different than autophagy
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autophagy#Repair_mechanism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autophagy#Repair_mechanism),
where the effects of exercise / intermittent fasting in enhancing autophagy
are somewhat established.

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zamfi
This wording struck me as odd:

> Study co-investigators included Jinghui Zhao and Sudarsanareddy Lokireddy,
> who is no longer at Harvard.

It turns out that “no longer at Harvard” in this case means stripped of his
PhD due to fabricating data, and implicated in 6 other retractions for
falsified data.

So...perhaps take this study with a grain of salt?

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OldFatCactus
I started intermittent fasting again this week. I was telling my new coworkers
about it and they thought I was crazy. "There's a name for skipping
breakfast?"

Made me chuckle because I actually remember periods of time in college/early
career where I was probably IFing unintentionally just because I was terrible
at feeding myself. I especially remember periods of time where I was so
addicted to video games, I would forget to eat. Obviously there are other
issues with such a lifestyle, but I wonder how often we sometimes slip into
positive diet and exercise habits just as a consequence of external things in
our lives.

~~~
asnrk
As someone who's always skipped breakfast more often than not, I too find
calling that "fasting" kinda silly. I'd reserve that for going at least a
whole day without food, before it deserves much consideration.

I rarely eat breakfast and often skip lunch. I find that when instead of doing
that I focus on eating _more_ meals but also driving up my vegetable and fruit
intake to as high a % of my calories as I can stand, I feel healthier and have
an easier time keeping weight in check.

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DoreenMichele
_Malfunctions in the cells’ protein-disposal machinery can lead to the
accumulation of misfolded proteins, which clog up the cell_

This actually has implications for genetic disorders.

I inadvertently discovered the value of semi fasting. It's called poverty. I
sometimes am too poor to afford good quality food and learned while homeless
that eating little or nothing for short periods was better for my health than
exposing myself to germs and smoke etc to acquire usually low quality meals at
soup kitchens.

I have a genetic disorder. Semi-fasting has really helped my condition to an
unexpected degree. (I'm not recommending it for my condition. You first need
fat reserves.)

I'm very interested in this research. I hope to eventually have a better
understanding of the mechanism whereby this is beneficial.

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11thEarlOfMar
The article speaks about thigh muscle cells showing increased protein
breakdown after bicycling[0]. Does the effect only occur in the muscles used?
If so, it seems that in order to get the benefit throughout the body, you'd
need to deliberately exercise all muscle groups.

[0] "...the researchers analyzed the effects of exercise on cells obtained
from the thigh muscles of four human volunteers before and after vigorous
biking. Following exercise, the proteasomes of these cells showed dramatically
more molecular marks of enhanced protein degradation, including greater levels
of cAMP."

~~~
xutopia
How did they monitor it? Did they stab the volunteers or take pieces of
proteins from the thigh?

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SketchySeaBeast
Fasting seems to be incredibly popular here - has anyone combined these longer
term (3+ day) fasts with the other point they brought up, exercise, and if so,
what has their experience been with that? I'm wondering how performance is
affected. I know that a lot of body builders perform intermittent fasting, but
I never hear about longer terms.

~~~
novaRom
Three or more days is too extreme. I have very positive experience with 14/10
method where I skip eating between 10pm and 12-noon.

~~~
mrfusion
I’m thinking of doing 8am to 5pm eating window. I need food to look forward to
to motivate me out of bed.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Plus, you can hit up the early bird special at Denny's.

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b3b0p
Sleeping extra and skipping breakfast before I go to work/school is fasting.
Which my dad, friends, and myself have been doing throughout our entire life
since maybe grade school.

I'm trying to figure out why calling it intermittent fasting versus skipping
breakfast all of sudden makes it almost controversial and a hot topic.

~~~
Someone1234
> sudden makes it almost controversial and a hot topic.

Because scientific data suggests it may have health benefits.

Doing intermittent fasting isn't simply skipping breakfast, you have to avoid
any calorific consumption during the cycle (e.g. sugar/cream in drinks,
snacks, etc). The length of the cycle is also starting to seem important with
longer intermittent fasts (or full fasts) being more beneficial to health.

The whole topic remains me of high-intensity interval training (HIIT)[0] in a
good way. Both HIIT and IF offer improved health outcomes with minimal
investment (both time and effort). They're also scientifically backed. They
aren't as effective as their full effort counterparts (e.g. healthy eating,
longer exercise), but people seem more willing to try them and they become
habits.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
intensity_interval_traini...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
intensity_interval_training)

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novaRom
My personal habit:

1) Skip breakfast completely

2) Zero coffein intake

3) Sunlight exposure: run topless if possible, go outside at noon for about an
hour every day. Although it is not an issue for California as for the Northern
Europe.

4) No milk (but cheese rarely)

5) No red meat (but fish and poultry sometimes)

~~~
mamon
Is skipping breakfast really a good choice? If anything I would skip the last
meal of day (dinner/supper whatever you call that in English)

~~~
AimForTheBushes
It's way easier to skip breakfast than dinner.

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Legogris
If anyone's interested in effects of long-term water fasts (sizable study over
long time, largest data-point is a 41-day water fast):
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5819235/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5819235/)

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jriot
Not sure how to do fasting with exercise.

I follow the Russian Sheiko powerlifting training plan, eating around 4500
calories a day. Not sure how my body would react to skipping entire days
without eating. If I miss my second late night snack I wake-up famished.

~~~
antisthenes
Yeah, I'm not sure if people who recommend IF ever tried to exercise while
hungry.

My lifting weights go down by at least 10-15% if I haven't eaten anything that
day. Tried lifting in the morning before breakfast - didn't go too well
either, just put me in a bad mood because I felt too weak.

~~~
randlet
I do a powerlifting routine and sometimes work out while fasted (16+ hours).
Doesn't make a difference to me to be honest but I haven't tried a 24hr or
multi day fast. However, my lifts are quite sensitive to sleep patterns and if
I'm not well rested my lifts can suffer 5% or so (15% seems pretty large?
That's a 45lb difference on a 300lb squat!).

~~~
jriot
I am not super strict with when I eat, make sure I get enough. But I agree
that my lifts suffer more if I haven't given myself enough rest or time
between workouts - that's a bigger detriment to lifting.

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subcosmos
Pretty much everything discussed in this article has been the general theory
of proteostasis for at least the last decade - in part thanks to the work
coming out of that lab.

~~~
sametmax
Well that's the thing. Humanity has known fasting for a long time, and the
associated benefits. But we are now building a complex model to understand how
it works, which will allow more people to benefit from it since many only try
something once it's been scientifically studied in depth.

~~~
magduf
Hopefully fully studying it in-depth will also help us fine-tune it so that we
can get the most benefit from it with the least investment.

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vnwwilugrb
I guess I'm the odd one out here; I eat between 07:00 and 11:00 I have dinner
for breakfast, then lunch for second breakfast then fast

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aviv
Fasting is the best gift you can give to your body. It's a shame more people
don't know or trust this. Good job mainstream for hiding the truth.

I water fast about 90 days out of the year (~25 consecutive days each time)
and dry fast for about 30 (8 to 10 consecutive days each time).

People eat too much (and not even "bad" foods, just anything really) and more
importantly - too often. Digesting food matter is a great way to get sick and
maintain sickness.

~~~
qsymmachus
"Dry fast" means you consume neither food nor water, correct?

How can a human possibly go "8 to 10 consecutive days" with no water?

~~~
aviv
Correct, no food or water.

In fact, there is also "soft" dry fast and "hard" dry fast. With the latter
you also avoid any contact with water, such as washing hands, showers, etc.

I wouldn't recommend anyone should have a 8-10 day dry fast as their first
fast, that's for sure.

But your body is capable of doing far more than you give it credit for. The
concept of no one surviving 10 days without food or water is simply false. In
fact, I have more energy on the 7th or 8th days of a dry fast than I did when
I used to have a conventional diet.

~~~
n4r9
This is one of those "remarkable claims require remarkable evidence"
situations. If you're being genuine and seriously want the world to take
notice, have you asked anyone to study the effects of a week-long dehydration
in which you claim to have _more_ energy by the end? Medical researchers would
jump at the chance.

~~~
aviv
This is incredibly naive. Sadly this is not how the world actually operates.
Entire industries and economies would be disrupted and vanish completely if
majority of people were healthy. Millions of jobs rely on people continuously
going through the cycle of disease.

Medical researchers would never jump at a chance to prove that fasting,
something no one can patent and turn into a recurring revenue profit center,
is the cure for many diseases they currently sell maintenance drugs and
"treatment" for what they tell people is incurable.

~~~
n4r9
Have you actually tried asking them?

University medical researchers in particular would chomp at the bit to get a
study like this, with the potential to get into Nature and boost their
reputation. Trust me, I've been an academic.

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lubesGordi
Caffeine also ups your cAMP.

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boulevard
I have a better plan, Die!

