
Google updates Play policies to require games to use its in-app billing service - TomAnthony
http://thenextweb.com/google/2013/08/23/google-updates-play-policies-to-ban-apps-and-ads-modifying-devices-require-games-use-its-in-app-billing-service/?fromcat=all
======
sergiotapia
The Play store is a cesspool of dodgy apps with even dodgier advertising and
permission practices.

8 out of 10 games I download have this weird splash screen pop up advertising
another game or trying to peddle me something.

It's gotten to the point where I don't even download any apps anymore. Too
much crap out there and these practices seem completely legal according to
Google TOS.

Is it so hard to just pay 5$ for a game, and leave me the fuck alone? Why do
devs bombard me with upsells every loading screen after every level?

I haven't used an iOS product for about 3 years, but I don't remember it ever
having this particular problem.

~~~
corresation
Freemium type games are all the rage on both iOS and Android -- there is no
difference there (I remember the nonsense when the Dead Trigger publishers
went freemium on Android, claiming that enormous piracy force their hand. A
week later they quietly went freemium on iOS as well. Their _real_ reason is
that getting suckers to buy ammo packs turns out to be much more lucrative).

 _Is it so hard to just pay 5$ for a game, and leave me the fuck alone? Why do
devs bombard me with upsells every loading screen after every level?_

What game did you pay $5 for? Examples? Most people refuse to pay $1.99, much
less $0.99, leading to the current situation. Again, this is the same on
_both_ platforms.

~~~
Groxx
I'd argue most people would be right in not wanting to pay $0.99 for most
apps. Most (the _vast_ majority) turn out to be incomprehensibly bad, and I
truly feel bad for paying for some.

IMO what we really need is a short, free (optional) trial period for many
apps. You really really need to get past the "but what if it's shit?"
perfectly-rational reflex when someone sees a non-free app.

~~~
esteth
There is a short, free mandatory trial period on every app in the play store.

The first time you purchase an app you have 15 minutes, during which time you
can go back to the store and hit "refund" to reverse the charge and uninstall
the app.

~~~
mcherm
Yes, but 15 minutes is not enough time for me to evaluate an app. 48 hours
would be nice. Best of all would be if the store allowed the app developer to
specify how long refunds were permitted for (and displayed that information at
purchase time). I think the better developers would compete to offer their
customers flexibility, confident that their products would prove their worth.

~~~
esteth
I might be alone, but I think I'd refund every app I purchased if I could
within 48 hours. Even 24 would be too short for me.

I'd be able to pick up new games every week for my weekly commute and never
have to pay for them.

~~~
mcherm
So you use most of your games for less than 48 hours each? I'd say you're
getting very little use out of them! But that's why I'd actually prefer that
the developer got to choose the length of time that refunds were allowed. Then
the person selling the quick game with a 20 min play time could allow only 5
min for refunds, while the to-do list application could have several weeks.

------
kumarm
This is a much needed change from Google and best thing to have happened to
Android EcoSystem.

Last several months almost every week you hear a new ad company that is based
on Notification Ads, Icon Ads. These guys are in for Quick Money with no
regard to developer or end user. (I am restraining my self from talking about
how developers have been abusing notification ads in order not to spread the
spam techniques).

------
turshija
And what about users from countries where Google's billing is not available
(for example Serbia) ?

People reported it long time ago, but Google hasn't updated that issue since
February 2013, and it was reported on February 2012 !

[http://d.pr/i/VIPN](http://d.pr/i/VIPN)

[https://support.google.com/googleplay/known-
issues/1319135?h...](https://support.google.com/googleplay/known-
issues/1319135?hl=en)

------
arkitaip
For end users there are several updates that are welcomed, such as apps not
being allowed to show ads thru notifications, or that apps cannot add
shortcuts that are ads.

------
Ologn
Google's Admob is shutting off Paypal as a payment option a month from now. It
is already shut off for new Admob customers.

[https://support.google.com/admob/v2/answer/2772061?hl=en](https://support.google.com/admob/v2/answer/2772061?hl=en)

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reginaldjcooper
We need a distributed third-party platform that is technologically unable to
force a single payment portal. I don't know what that would look like
technologically but I'd like to have it.

~~~
anxiousest
Now that Google insists on a payment method all of the sudden "we need" third-
party solutions?! no one had objections about Apple and Amazon doing so, at
least Google allows third-party app stores and sideloading.

~~~
PommeDeTerre
What makes you think that "no one had objections about Apple and Amazon doing
so"? Lots of people did. Lots of people have been quite vocal in their dislike
of the so-called "walled garden" practices of various organizations.

Google and Android have generally provided a relatively open third-party
alternative to what Apple and others are offering. If the degree of openness
is changing, however, then I can see people speaking out against them, too,
and possibly looking for alternatives.

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MRSallee
So it' only games that have to use Google's billing? Not the Amazon Kindle
app? Or music distribution apps?

~~~
zmmmmm
Yes, only games, from the text of the change. This hints that perhaps the
change is aimed at their attempts to implement parental controls and push into
the child / family-friendly market? If using Google's system then they can
enforce the controls on in-app billing set at the device level.

Of course, it is also possible that they recognize there is a lot of revenue
flowing now from games through in-app purchases and have decided just to be
anti-competitive assholes. But I would have to say, that has not been their
form to date.

------
iandanforth
"Games of skill" can't offer cash prizes. If I made a math tutor app that
dolled out real money would this be covered?

What if I ran a coding challenge on an app that had prizes?

Strikes me that this one will be a hard line to draw and apply consistently.

------
devx
I hope this means Google Wallet will be able to do what Google Checkout
couldn't - finally take on Paypal. But before it does that, it needs to be
ubiquitous on Android devices at least, and used by hundreds of millions of
people, globally. Then maybe a day will come when you can withdraw the money
out of your Google Wallet, in your own country, just like with Paypal.

~~~
nilved
Let's replace our reliance on one terrible company with another!

~~~
rektide
And let's go from a non-enforced dejure wretchedness to a defacto enforced
wretchedness!

The only 3rd party non-Google app/package manager I know of being used on
Android is Debian, and it definitely doesn't have an app store or payment
gateway for in app. Kindle of course is their own bag, and B&N is around too;
it seems like there's got to be some place to start to begin to set both app-
makers and app-users going.

------
jwatte
So will Google cover anti-fraud and chargebacks, if I'm not allowed to do that
myself using strong tools?

------
trimbo
So... does this mean I can no longer shop in the Kindle store directly from my
Nexus?

~~~
avar
This is an update to the policies of the Play store. Kindle Store != Play
Store. So no, you can still do whatever Amazon deems OK on their Kindle
playground on your Nexus.

~~~
trimbo
Right, so... I still don't understand exactly what you mean.

On an iPad, Apple does not allow Amazon to sell things directly in the Kindle
app -- because it's an "in app purchase", and Apple wants their 30%.

Google _does_ allow this currently. The Kindle app on Nexus, downloaded from
the Play store, embeds a complete store within it that does not use Play to do
purchases. It uses the standard Amazon "one click" purchase mechanism.

The question is: is this changing so Amazon can no longer sell directly within
the Kindle application when downloaded from the Play store?

[Edit]: I am not talking about the sideloaded Amazon App store in this case.
The straight up kindle app from the Play store.

~~~
notatoad
from the google play developer guidelines:

"Developers offering additional content, services or functionality within
another category of app downloaded from Google Play must use Google Play's in-
app billing service as the method of payment, except ... where payment is for
digital content or goods that may be consumed outside of the application
itself (e.g. buying songs that can be played on other music players)."

the kindle store is kind of straddling the line between affected and
unaffected. if reading a kindle book on an e-ink kindle device counts as
outside the app, they're fine. I'm guessing google will give amazon a pass
here, the regulation is clearly meant to stop games with scammy IAP, not
ebookstores.

