
The Tangled History of Soviet Computer Science - BIackSwan
http://nautil.us/issue/23/dominoes/how-the-computer-got-its-revenge-on-the-soviet-union
======
avdicius
I'm puzzled this article has "history" in the title. It would be more
appropriately called "a few funny fiction stories and some cheap spin-
doctoring on soviet computer science." Somehow it does not mention this guy,
who could be called Soviet von Neumann:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Alexeyevich_Lebedev](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Alexeyevich_Lebedev)

On the other hand it does not mention von Neumann either, it talks about
Norbert Wiener, whose theories have doubtful contribution to computer science.
The critical articles about his theories in Soviet media were pretty
ridiculous, but hardly had any effect on the development of computers or
control theory in SU. The author mentions nobody else relevant to the subject:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Ershov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Ershov)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Adelson-
Velsky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Adelson-Velsky)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Lyapunov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Lyapunov)
[https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5...](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87)

Perhaps the author took inspiration for his article from the worst examples of
Soviet propaganda. Twisting the facts, mixing them with fiction in such a way
that is hard to tell one from another.

~~~
Alex_Notchenko
Article doesn't have "history" in it's title, HN submission has. Title on site
is "How the Computer Got Its Revenge on the Soviet Union".

> some cheap spin-doctoring on soviet computer science this article is
> actually reworked version of "Gerovitch, Slava. "InterNyet: why the Soviet
> Union did not build a nationwide computer network." History and Technology
> 24.4 (2008): 335-350." which has a lot of reference and citations. And
> article main subject is not history of computer science in USSR, it's about
> problems of creating huge computer networks in particular political-
> ideological environment.

I don't see how this attempt of informing about attempts of creating Internet
in USSR diminishes achievements of great Scientists that you've mentioned. It
mentions "MESM", which was created by Lebedev, it's certainly close enough
without changing the subject of article.

> Twisting the facts, mixing them with fiction in such a way that is hard to
> tell one from another. Where exactly fact twisting is in the article?

[0] [http://web.mit.edu/slava/homepage/articles/Gerovitch-
InterNy...](http://web.mit.edu/slava/homepage/articles/Gerovitch-
InterNyet.pdf)

------
jnd5000
There's a great novel, _Red Plenty_, by Francis Spufford, that touches on
Soviet computing in the 50s and 60s as part of a broader exploration of Soviet
economic planning. I wish more people would read it. It's a weird hybrid of
reportage and fiction -- and almost seems science fictional in its world
building. Here's a link to the Guardian's review:
[http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/aug/08/red-plenty-
fran...](http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/aug/08/red-plenty-francis-
spufford)

~~~
pja
Red Plenty is fantastic. Well worth reading.

There was a virtual seminar at the Crooked Timber group blog which is worth
reading if you enjoyed the book: [http://crookedtimber.org/category/red-
plenty-seminar/](http://crookedtimber.org/category/red-plenty-seminar/)

------
jordigh
I didn't read the article, but I just wanted to take the occasion to remind
people that the Soviets also built ternary computers:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_computer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_computer)

~~~
agentcoops
This article is really a rather sloppy piece that contributes little to our
understanding of what should be fascinating to this community: alternative
histories and possibilities of the computer. For example, how cybernetics and
"use of the computer" are used almost interchangeably. A critique of
cybernetics, which is in fact somewhere in-between a political program and
philosophical system, can in no way be equated with a critique of the
computer. In fact, a critique of cybernetics as at once idealist (vs
materialist) and mechanistic (vs organic/vitalist) is a very sensible
philosophical critique and in no way a contradictory legacy of mere soviet
ideology, however philosophically problematic the latter may itself be. Many
of the decisions to avoid anthropomorphizing the computer are similar to
arguments put forth by Djikstra for perspective.

Historically, how is it even possible that this article doesn't mention
someone like Sergei Lebedev, a celebrated Soviet scientist, who had a working
computer by the 50s which had been in development since the mid-to-late 40s?
Or a figure like Victor Shestakov who independently made many of the same
innovations as Claude Shannon? As a community, I think we should be very
interested in other ways the computer could have been---at the level of use,
hardware and software---thus histories like this or the Japanese
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer)
should be fascinating, even if one finds much about the Soviet Union
problematic to say the least.

On the cybernetics point, I would also highly recommend reading Bogdanov's
science fiction novel Red Star, written in 1908 (obviously in-between the two
revolutions, so technically pre-Soviet, but he was important in defining many
philosophical and technical programs in the Soviet Union, notably space
flight), for a fascinating account of a utopian intertwining of statistics,
computer-like devices, and the life of a planet. Absolutely materialist and
organic/vitalist rather than idealist and mechanistic!

~~~
agentcoops
As a follow-up, I highly recommend
[http://monoskop.org/Computing_and_cybernetics_in_CEE#Episode...](http://monoskop.org/Computing_and_cybernetics_in_CEE#Episodes)
as a much more detailed account of the history of Soviet hardware and thought
about computing, including even the relation to cybernetics.

------
agumonkey
Love to hear relationship between governments and cybernetics in those days.
Like
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn).

The document counts toward the end is mindboggling. And the brezhnev story is
delicious.

~~~
innguest
> FTFA: "The project consisted of four modules: an economic simulator [...]"

We have sophisticated physics simulators nowadays but no economic simulator to
be found. It's almost as if all those economic formulae are a giant pretense
and can't really provide a concrete explanation of how things work as required
by algorithms (and people, but you can always fool people - you just can't
fool computers).

~~~
agumonkey
Economic simulation is probably just below weather prediction... not really
possible.

~~~
innguest
That's what _I_ am arguing. :)

But your comparison is unfair. It's not about weather prediction, I have no
comments about that. But can't we simulate it? Yes we can, I play GTA,
sometimes it's raining and my car skids more. That's weather simulation.
Where's the economic simulation where I make interest rates negative and
...(fill in the blanks - who knows?)... that's why a simulator would really
come in handy.

The difference between physics and economics is physics can use its formulae
to simulate what it claims to explain, while economics can't. That makes me
think those two sets of formulae are not of the same breed.

~~~
agumonkey
GTA is a real time crippled approximation of physics, far from a simulation.
Maybe economics have no 'one true' model from which equations can be derived,
but even if there were such equations, the complexity wouldn't be manageable
unless you reduce the precision to the point it's unreliable for real world
usage.

~~~
innguest
> GTA is a real time crippled approximation of physics, far from a simulation.

Far? Cars skid in the water. They have different weights. The engine being on
the front or on the back makes a difference in how the car drives. They have
different acceleration speeds, different traction, and so on. It's pretty
good, so I wouldn't call it "crippled".

However, economics can't _even_ make a simulator as good as GTA is for
physics. That is pathetic and a testament to its quackery.

------
thomasjames
This reads like an Adam Curtis documentary (a good thing), and several of the
episodes of more famous documentaries touch upon some of the themes here.

The episode of "Pandora's Box" called "The Engineer's Plot" describes the rise
of cybernetic thinking in the Soviet Union--less so the early resistance to
it. It describes some of the insane rituals that developed out of the
entrenched management hierarchies that computing was grafted on to. It
effectively shows the endgame of the Soviet cybernetic experiment.

More recently, the episode "The Use and Abuse of Vegetational Concepts" of the
documentary series "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace" describes
the development of cybernetics in the US and the resistance to it from
environmentalists (outside the scope of the article). It gives portraits of
some of the main characters this article talks about, though.

------
centizen
[http://goo.gl/ca7UYP](http://goo.gl/ca7UYP)

Mirror for anyone who's getting an error

------
m0skit0
The nomenklatura would invent the most ridiculous arguments ("Condemned as a
capitalist tool") to avoid any criticism, to suit their planned programs,
corruption, and unjustified spendings.

~~~
avdicius
This might be surprising but planned programs of the pesky corrupted
nomenklatura sometimes used some science and computing as well. Look at this
guy:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kantorovich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kantorovich)

He received Nobel prize and (horror!) Stalin prize for his work in mathematics
and using mathematics for evil planning of economic programs.

~~~
m0skit0
"(horror!) Stalin prize" "using mathematics for evil planning of economic
programs" I hope this is ironic.

------
Mister_Snuggles
Here is another article on the history of Soviet computing:

[http://www.sigcis.org/?q=node/85](http://www.sigcis.org/?q=node/85)

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toolsadmin
Anybody see parallels between this and Stem cell research?

