
First new antibiotic in 30 years discovered in major breakthrough - walkingolof
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/14/first-new-antibiotic-in-30-years-discovered-in-major-breakthroug
======
srunni
The original paper, from January 2015:
[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v517/n7535/full/nature1...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v517/n7535/full/nature14098.html)

And a more easily comprehensible summary of it:
[http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2015/01/08/tei...](http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2015/01/08/teixobactin_a_new_antibiotic_from_a_new_platform)

The most interesting part of this is how the compound was discovered:

> A multichannel device, the iChip, was used to simultaneously isolate and
> grow uncultured bacteria. A sample of soil is diluted so that approximately
> one bacterial cell is delivered to a given channel, after which the device
> is covered with two semi-permeable membranes and placed back in the soil.
> Diffusion of nutrients and growth factors through the chambers enables
> growth of uncultured bacteria in their natural environment. The growth
> recovery by this method approaches 50%, as compared to 1% of cells from soil
> that will grow on a nutrient Petri dish.

The iChip was originally described in an April 2010 paper
([http://aem.asm.org/content/76/8/2445.long](http://aem.asm.org/content/76/8/2445.long)),
and builds on earlier work from 2002
([http://science.sciencemag.org/content/296/5570/1127](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/296/5570/1127)),
along with advances in microfluidics.

------
owenfi
Could antibiotics (especially anti-resistant antibiotics such as this) be used
in a phased manner worldwide to help prevent resistant bacteria from gaining a
foothold?

Say a couple similarly potent (a few vectors to kill bacteria) antibiotics are
found in the next 20-30 years. If the WHO encouraged/mandated that drug A was
prescribed for the first 10 years, B for the next, then C before going back to
A could we "confuse" the bacteria?

~~~
wolfram74
The theory is sound [1], but as in many situations with a lot of different
actors, you get some coordination problems. Already many countries have some
rules about how and when you can use certain anti-biotics, and some countries
completely ignore them, or ignore them when it's profitable (farmers, usually,
from what I gather.[2])

Even given the variety of anti-biotics we have now, if they were on a kind of
4 or 5 year rotation schedule that was actually followed, given the
reproductive rate of bacteria i suspect that would work anyways, so hoping for
coordination would certainly help, a solution that wouldn't require humans
being more cooperative would be greatly expanding the diversity of our anti-
biotics.

[1] [http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/cellular-
microscopic/d...](http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/cellular-
microscopic/drug-resistant-bacteria-lose-resistance.htm) [2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbcwi7SfZE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbcwi7SfZE)

~~~
ethbro
Out of curiosity, is there a reason antibiotic cocktails aren't used more
often? Cost?

Seems like it would be more productive and play to human nature if we could
decrease the cost of cocktails and mandate that they're always used instead of
singular antibiotics.

~~~
maxerickson
I think a big part of it is that single antibiotics have been quite effective.
So there isn't a developed practice of using cocktails and the interactions
and so on aren't necessarily well tested/understood.

The most recent course of antibiotics I took was a combination of antibiotics
though, so it's changing.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoxicillin/clavulanic_acid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoxicillin/clavulanic_acid)

------
kyriakos
Once this gets approved for human use it should be put on lock down and be
used only in extreme cases of resistant infections. Like a last resort cure to
avoid the mistakes of the past and prolong it's usefulness.

~~~
tempestn
From the article: "Crucially, the scientists believe that bacteria will not
become resistant to Teixobactin for at least 30 years because of its multiple
methods of attack."

Can anyone tell me what would happen if we instead _only_ used this new
antibiotic, or at least used it instead of others as often as possible? If it
is indeed so potent that bacteria would have difficulty developing a
resistance, could we essentially use that window to let resistances to all the
other antibiotics die out?

~~~
iSnow
I doubt that 30 year window. If if were nearly impossible to build a
resistance, the bacterium producing the antibiotic would poison itself.

And I am not sure how you'd convince people in underdeveloped countries to use
the new and expensive drug only.

~~~
dalke
The bacteria has had far more than 30 years to develop resistance, and it
could do it in stages. We don't know how many other bacteria over the
gigayears managed to poison itself.

~~~
iSnow
True, but for one, the antibiotic will be produced and used in really large
doses once it enters the market, meaning there are trillions of bacterial
cells encountering it, which raises the likelihood of development of
resistance. And second, horizontal gene transfer between bacteria means
different strains of bacteria can cooperate in defeating it
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer))

------
grizzles
Unsung heroes. Our civilization seems to have an addiction to dancing on the
edge of a cliff. Thanks to heroes like these, we can dance a little longer. At
least until the hot coals get us.

~~~
chillydawg
Dancing on the edge is the economically sensible thing to do. Same reason you
only spend so much on earth quake resistance if they only happen once every 50
years. Let the whole city fall down and rebuild is cheaper than an earthquake
tax on everything every year.

~~~
neffy
A better idea is to have 2 cities - one built with earth quake resistance, and
the other not - and give people the choice about which one to live in.

Then it shouldn't take more than a couple of earthquake iterations to sort out
the gene pool.

The mistake you're making is to assume it's cheaper to build non-earthquake
resistant structures. It's actually just another iteration of the cheap boot
problem.[1]

[1] [http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/72745-the-reason-that-the-
ri...](http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/72745-the-reason-that-the-rich-were-so-
rich-vimes-reasoned)

------
nerdponx
What makes me nervous about this is that the antibiotic resistance paranoia
will die out, and we'll just start using more antibiotics again.

~~~
eivarv
It's not unlikely.

But it's not really paranoia, though, as antibiotic resistance poses a real
threat.

~~~
berntb
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there really aren't those (diseases)
out to get you...

Alternatively -- are you paranoid _enough_?

(Ah, this is the same old news first published last year, iirc. This was from
January. This is from January 2015: [http://www.independent.co.uk/life-
style/health-and-families/...](http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-
and-families/health-news/first-new-antibiotic-in-30-years-could-be-key-to-
beating-superbug-resistance-9963585.html) )

Edit: To see more discussion over the last 18 months, google: teixobactin
site:news.ycombinator.com. This seems the biggest story:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8852487](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8852487)

~~~
eivarv
I don't see how what you write is relevant; paranoia is unreasonable by its
definition [1], as opposed to rational fear.

[1]: [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paranoia](http://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/paranoia)

~~~
berntb
You _almost_ got the joke, better than expected for a Norwegian. :-)

For people outside of this mutual admiration society:

This is funny since I'm Swedish -- Swedes/Norwegians used to tell bad "racist"
jokes about each others. The level was really low, like "Why don't they use
underwear when picking strawberries in Oslo? To keep the flies out of the
face."

(I always thought those were extra funny, since a relative of mine got
promoted to general major for killing lots of Swedes in war in Norway a few
centuries ago. :-) )

~~~
eivarv
Hah!

I got the gist of it, dear svenskejævel, but I mistook your sarcasm for bona
fide paranoia ;)

As for intra-Scandinavian relations: I think we can all agree that the Danes
are the worst of us - and their language is just ridiculous [1].

[1]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk)

~~~
berntb
For the non Scandinavians:

Denmark is an old trade nation. When you do business with them, some innocent
paragraphs in the contract usually end up with them earning lots more. And
they think that is a bit too funny.

At least, that is how the rest of the Nordic countries tend see them.

Also, they are too friendly and too often in a good mood. Weird people,
especially my relatives down there. They could almost be called "normal
Europeans", or something. Probably get too much sun in the winter.

(Most wars in Europe between two countries weren't France/England, it was
Denmark/Sweden. Norway used to fight with the Danes. No one likes the Swedes,
not even themselves.)

Edit: I might add that the oil could probably have happened to nicer people,
but the Norwegians really deserved a break after a hard history with bad
farming and bad neighbours. :-)

Edit 2: Sorry for chatting about irrelevant subjects on HN. Down votes are
humbly accepted.

------
emn13
I don't quite understand why this is news now. It's been amply published in
academic and popular media (including tech-leaning places like
[http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/a-new-kind-of-
antibio...](http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/a-new-kind-of-antibiotic-
that-kills-many-drug-resistant-bacteria/)). Has there been some new
development?

------
partycoder
Discovery of teixobactin was announced in early 2015.

It was done using isolation chips to culture Eleftheria terrae (temporary
name), a bacterium discovered in 2014.

------
JulianMorrison
Why are we as a culture not putting much more effort into bacteriophage
therapy? It was big in the USSR but seems to have been ignored by contemporary
medicine, despite having at least two major advantages against resistance -
physical mode of action, and being capable of evolution itself.

~~~
jessriedel
Bacteriophages are neat but we shouldn't pretend like it's totally surprising
why they aren't used. For one, they are constantly evolving so it's very
difficult to produce a well-defined stable bacteriophage. The version you test
in clinical trials is often completely different from the one you'd get
treated with a year later.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy#Safety](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy#Safety)

But more importantly, your comment is off-topic.

~~~
jnbiche
> But more importantly, your comment is off-topic.

I'm just curious, how is it that you see this comment as off-topic? I'm
confused.

~~~
jessriedel
Bacteriophages are brought up every single time antibiotics are discussed, and
always framed as some incredible low-hanging fruit left by the soviets that
Americans have stubbornly neglected. I think you really need to keep the
discussions more focused than that, especially when the article is about the
development and impact of _this_ particular antibiotic.

Otherwise, we end up with the comments for every article touching on city
design just rehashing the same arguments regarding car-pedestrian trade-offs
("Did you know that Big Auto had a master plan to kill off the LA street car
system!?!?"), and the comments for every article on military jets bemoaning
the loss of the A-10 Warthog.

~~~
SubiculumCode
While ycombinator tends to be inhabited by professional and intelligent men
and women, they hail from a number of different disciplines and backgrounds.
That is to say, Hacker News is not an antibiotics specialist blog/forum, and
people would like to converse and learn from others more broadly than you are
demanding.

~~~
jessriedel
It has nothing to do with training in antibiotics, or anything else
biological, as I have none. I have seen the identical arguments rehashed here
a dozen times, and they are low quality. (As JulianMorrison's comment, where
he does not mention the very first objections in the wikipedia article, and
then dismisses them based on laymen intuition when questioned.)

~~~
SubiculumCode
perhaps.

------
Jean-Philipe
> The lack of new drugs coupled with over-prescribing has led to bacteria
> becoming increasingly resistant to modern medicines.

The article doesn't mention meat industry as the biggest consumer of
antibiotics.

------
_pmf_
Quick, to the pig troughs!

------
jbb555
"could be available within five years."

Ah, the usual codeword for "this won't happen"

