

U.S. seeks patriotic computer geeks for help in cyber crisis - brudgers
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-seeks-patriotic-computer-geeks-help-cyber-crisis-165536164.html

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quanticle
The first they need to do is get rid of the 'cyber' prefix on everything. It
doesn't add anything and it makes them look even more out of touch with the
day-to-day realities of computer and network security than they already are.

The second thing they need to do is pay well. A solid programmer can get high
five-figure or low six-figure salary at Google. This is for two reasons.
First, the cost of living in the Bay Area is extraordinarily high. Second, and
more importantly, solid programmers (not even rockstars, but solid, competent
programmers) are _valuable_. Can the government make offers that are
competitive with Google? After all, DC isn't a cheap place to live either.

Somehow, I don't think either of these things will happen, and this will be
another bureaucratic turf war where millions of taxpayer dollars will be spent
filling out forms and progress reports whilst nothing of substance will
actually be achieved.

~~~
sliverstorm
_solid programmers are valuable_

I wonder though if even a mediocre to weak programmer could be a solid
programmer, in the right kind of organization?

~~~
quanticle
It's possible, given time, for a weak programmer to become a solid programmer,
but the programmer has to 1) recognize that they're a weak programmer 2) want
to improve their programming ability and 3) be part of an organization that
allows them to do so.

From what I've seen of government bureaucracies and the sort of people they
attract, I'd be willing to suggest that none of those things (especially (3))
will be generally true of this new organization.

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noonespecial
Ahh the government "cyber" job. This is a job where you see the problem, have
the means and the desire to solve it, and are by no means permitted to
actually do it.

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munin
right. "it's not about the money". let's check that out:

here's the GS pay schedule, for reference:
<http://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/html/gs.asp>

note how you're not going to crack 6 figures until the end of your GS-14. How
long does it take to get to GS-14? somewhere between 5-10 years in service, if
you're lucky. if you're not lucky, you might never make it.

why so long? because advancement through grades is entirely based on time in
service. there is nothing your management chain, up to the president, can do
to pay you more. it would take, literally, an act of congress.

hooray! oh yeah, as a graduate with a CS degree from a good (CMU, MIT, etc)
school, you will start as a GS-7 or a GS-9. which is about 40k. 2nd tier tech
companies and consulting companies will start you at literally double that. if
you are really good, companies like msft and amazon will start you at
literally TRIPLE that.

so... how is this a choice for anyone? why does the government delude itself
that it isn't about the money?

~~~
sliverstorm
Well, the government has _never_ been directly competitive on wages- things
like job stability and pensions have been offered to help balance things out.

Aside from that, DoHS may not need $80k CMU/MIT grads. There is a whole middle
of the pool to draw from that didn't go to CMU/MIT. They probably don't intend
to develop the next SELinux as much as apply existing technology in an
intelligent way.

~~~
munin
I make a point about salary because in the article, a DHS official is quoted
as saying that the retention problems are not caused by money. I claim that's
BS. they're totally caused by money.

even if you go to a crappy school, if you are a solid programmer or system
administrator, you should be able to walk into a tech job out of graduation
for no less than $60k. I was able to get an IT job in the private sector with
just a HS diploma that made more than ($40k) what new government workers with
relevant skills and a 4 year degree were offered/making, and after 6 months at
that job I had offers for 50% more (how long would you have to be on the GS
scale to see this kind of movement? a lot longer than 6 months).

also, no more pensions for government workers (AFAIK), at least many of them.
you do have essentially job permanence though, is that worth only earning
1/3rd of your potential?

the salary thing is initially okay though, cos you were broke in college so
whatever, you're still broke. later, when you're 26, making $60 doing computer
programming, your friends are 26, making $140 doing computer programming, and
your wife looks at you and says "hey so why can Tom and Nancy have children
and also live in a house instead of share an apartment with another couple?"
...

~~~
sliverstorm
$140k with a bachelor's and 4 years experience? If you start at $60k (the
number you gave first), that's like a 25% raise every year. Man, did I pick
the wrong career.

~~~
aeontech
140K with 4 years experience seems really really fast to me, but if you are
good at negotiation/politics, perhaps it can be done. Or if you are hired by a
bubble company.

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epoxyhockey
<sarcasm> Every time I hear Janet Napolitano's voice over the airport
speakers, I think to myself, "I'd really like to work for her organization."
</sarcasm>

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ipadminime
I hope they pay well. At least six figures after a year or two.

