
Marta, file manager for macOS, goes beta - yanex
https://marta.yanex.org/marta-goes-beta
======
cyrusmg
The file manager seems to be closed-source[1], does anyone know of any good
open-source alternatives ?

[1] [https://github.com/marta-file-manager/](https://github.com/marta-file-
manager/)

~~~
josteink
While I think downvoting this comment is unfair, it should be noted that if
you care about your OS and tools being open-source, you probably shouldn’t be
running OSX in the first place.

I might even suggest running Linux. Oh my :)

~~~
mrgordon
This all or nothing mentality doesn't often end up being useful in practice.
For example, try doing some deep learning on Linux with CUDA without
installing closed source NVIDIA drivers. The important detail is who provided
the software and in this case most people are going to trust Apple or NVIDIA
significantly more than a small third-party software developer they've never
heard of.

(FWIW many of us tried running Linux as a desktop OS but found the UI and
driver situation to be abysmal so it continues to just power our servers)

~~~
ReverseCold
Linux is actually good now for desktop use. I install it (= Fedora or Antergos
w/ GNOME) on everything now and it just works(tm).

Not a single thing has been broken across two modern PCs and a laptop.

~~~
azinman2
Question is “good for what?”

It simply doesn’t have the polish, or flexibility that I’d need to effectively
stay on it for long. I always end up spending longggg times customizing things
only to feel little integration, little support, and a lack of decent third
party software. Sketch is Mac only. Spotify barely has a Linux client.
Certainly no photoshop, medocire native email clients, zero IM that integrate
with any networks I use (sms/iMessage), etc etc. Yes there’s lots of options
as a webpage, but that’s a shallow substitute.

If you happen to need only the stuff that’s available, and your workflow is
largely CLI-driven, then it’s probably fine. Otherwise it’s macOS for me.

~~~
solarkraft
Spotify on Linux == Spotify on Mac == Spotify on Windows == Spotify on the
web.

It's an electron app.

~~~
ezekg
Is it an Electron app now? Last time I poked around on macOS (admittedly,
about a year ago), it didn’t look like an Electron app to me, but it most
definitely was using a web view of some kind.

~~~
kn0where
It's not Electron, but it is Chromium.

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userbinator
Perhaps this is a bit off-topic, but I correctly guessed from the domain name
and later, the contents of the page, that [1] the author is Russian, and [2]
the file manager resembles the layout of FAR, another file manager of Russian
origin and seemingly very popular among them.

In short, what is it with Russians and this type of file manager? It's a very
curious association.

~~~
dchest
Norton Commander (and its clones, such as Volkov Commander, DOS Navigator) was
very popular in ex-USSR — almost every computer running DOS (the majority of
PCs in ex-USSR back then) had nc running as the main user interface to the PC,
and was introduced in most computer education courses in the 90's.

~~~
badsectoracula
I always found it amusing that in Chasm: The Rift (a midlate-90s FPS for DOS
made by Action Forms, a Ukrainian game developer), the computer monitors had
Norton Commander running:

[https://i.imgur.com/63dPueK.png](https://i.imgur.com/63dPueK.png)

------
spython
Forklift[0] Does a very good job of being a stable and reliable double pane
file manager with connectivity such as SFTP, S3, GoogleDrive and nice built in
things like batch rename and file transfer queues.

[0] [https://binarynights.com/](https://binarynights.com/)

~~~
smaili
Didn't see any mention of SCP -- do you happen to know if that is or is
planned to be supported?

~~~
yanex
Please file an issue :) [https://github.com/marta-file-manager/marta-
issues/issues](https://github.com/marta-file-manager/marta-issues/issues)

~~~
smaili
My question was regarding the ForkLift app but happy to file one for Marta!

------
jaclaz
>Marta is a dual-pane file manager. Most of the time you work with two
directory panes placed side-by-side. This allows you to do the basic file
operations such as copying or moving files in a fast and efficient way,
because you can see both source and target directories, and you can copy or
move files directly, without copy-pasting it.

Just in case, it could be categorized as a OFM (Orthodox File Manager):

[http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml](http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml)

What started it all is the Norton Commander for DOS.

~~~
mherrmann
If you're interested in a little history: [https://fman.io/blog/dual-pane-
file-manager-history/](https://fman.io/blog/dual-pane-file-manager-history/)

~~~
jaclaz
>If you're interested in a little history: [https://fman.io/blog/dual-pane-
file-manager-history/](https://fman.io/blog/dual-pane-file-manager-history/)

Thank you, though I knew most of those info as - unfortunately - I was there,
in the sense that I was in my twenties when NC came out, I practically started
my computing experience at work using NC and I couldn't imagine doing some
tasks without a dual pane filemanager, and when the NC was killed by Symantec
I mourned the loss (and quickly found some decent alternatives, the one with
the most "NC feeling" being IMHO DN - Dos Navigator and later NDN -
Necoromancer's Dos Navigator).

As a side note, what not everyone knows/noticed, 7-zip it is also a (almost
orthodox) dual pane file manager, very handy to manage, besides files residing
on mounted filesystems also those inside archives (obviously) and those inside
disk/disc/drive images, such as .iso, .img and similar.

------
yeasayer
I don't like that file operations are controlled by F1-F8 keys. This UX is
unfriendly to macOS environment. Most users' F-row is in media keys mode by
default, so you have to hold Fn otherwise. And I'm not even taking into
account the Touch Bar.

~~~
crispinb
It's not really unfriendly for developers though, who I would expect make up a
decent proportion of the intended audience, and who surely all have the 'Use
F1, F2 keys as standard function keys' set.

As for the Touch Bar, yes, that's a problem with the standard keybindings (and
is also why I'll probably only be a macOS/Marta user for a few months, as I'll
never buy a laptop with a fake keyboard).

But settings to the rescue! Cmd-shift-p & 'open default keybindings' reveals
that they're all configurable.

~~~
derefr
> and who surely all have the 'Use F1, F2 keys as standard function keys' set.

I develop for several different platforms on macOS, and have never felt the
need to enable that setting, because I've never encountered any macOS software
that required the Fn keys in this particular non-idiomatic way. Even macOS
IDEs stay away, tending to map things to complex key-chords instead.

~~~
crispinb
IntelliJ.

~~~
OberstKrueger
It takes quite a bit of tweaking to get JetBrains IDEs to work like other
macOS applications. Even AppCode has some issues there.

~~~
crispinb
I guess it's a matter of taste whether you converge your familiar environment
around the OS or your primary tools. I tend to do the latter (keeping
IntelliJ, emacs, Chrome & shell use more-or-less consistent across platforms).
I have more faith in my ongoing relationship with those tools than with a
particular OS.

------
crispinb
On a first look, this looks fantastic. Just what I've been waiting for. Time
will tell -- I have thought this about a couple of other file managers, but
irritations have always eventually surfaced to drive me back to Finder.

The ST-style command palette alone makes this worth a decent evaluation.

First-run experience was a bit odd - Marta opened up with both panes empty,
and all actions unavailable. I had to go to Go->Volumes in each pane and
select a volume to show up. That's OK, it's a beta. Seems great so far.

------
hambos22
I just tried it and I really liked it. It looks very promising. I applause
author's statements about its business model ("The goal for me is to create
the best file manager for Mac, not to become rich.").

I have tried everything, from Double Commander, to Forklift,Pathfinder and
fman.

I was fman user for about a year (OSX) but it was slow and the quick look
(with plugins) was unresponsive and crashed all the time so I cancelled my
subscription about one month ago and I was in search for a minimal but
powerful dual panel file manager with keyboard functionality.

Thanks for making this, it looks like TotalFinder (which I am a user since the
beginning) for power users. Especially the tabs functionality

~~~
mherrmann
Sorry you didn't have a great experience. I'm working on fman 1.0 with
literally 10x better performance.

------
yalestar
This is really excellent. I used to use Altap Salamander when I was more of a
Windows user, and it became one of my most indispensable tools. I've tried
most of the Mac commander-style clones (Forklift, Pathfinder, fman, Nimble
Commander) and found them slightly off for various reasons. This one really
hits the mark for me in terms of functionality, usability/feel, performance,
and predictability. And the Sublime-style command palette makes it even
better. Excellent job!

~~~
bitL
Try Double Commander.

------
saagarjha
What does this app provide that Finder doesn't? I see something about a
background operation queue, which Finder does, archive support, which I have a
QuickLook plugin for, and gadgets, which I can accomplish with services.

~~~
mephitix
If you've ever used Total Commander or even Windows 7+ native file explorer
it's very hard to go back to or use Finder. Keyboard shortcuts,
tokenizing/detokenizing file paths, opening in terminal, searching within
files, search for duplicate files, bulk rename, plugins, and more.

Whenever I have a new Mac I spend a couple minutes customizing Finder: adding
things like the Path button, showing the Path bar, showing the Status bar,
etc. I get that it's supposed to be simple but it's surprising to me that such
basic things aren't in the starting configuration.

I do love the spacebar preview though :)

~~~
dylan604
> I do love the spacebar preview though :)

This. It's the biggest pain point I have with using Windows Explorer. As a Mac
user, it's pure muscle memory to select a file and hit the space to look at
it. Once I'm on Windows, I feel the whole computer is broken because of this
one missing feature.

~~~
jpz
wow - I'm sitting here with my dual screen iMac setup, never knew about the
spacebar! Thanks! lol :)

------
grzm
Looks interesting. I'd love to see more screen shots. Is there a gallery
somewhere? I poked around the site a bit but didn't find one. Tthough perhaps
I just missed it. Been known to happen.)

~~~
SyneRyder
I agree, more screenshots would be great to get an understanding of the
product before trying it. Though I really like the design of the website (and
the current screenshot), it gives me a good feeling about the software.

------
nodesocket
Marta looks super nice, but I very hesitant to replace native Finder. I wish
Apple would do a complete rewrite of Finder and update it, instead of bolting
on these iOS type changes and new applications.

~~~
yanex
You can use both :) Some of my friends use Finder for simple things like
opening the downloaded file, and Marta for advanced file operations.

------
grzm
Over a 100 comments from the Show HN a couple of weeks ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13921364](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13921364)

~~~
abcd_f
That post is from "Mar 21, 2017", i.e. last year :)

~~~
grzm
Oh, my :) Thanks!

------
mherrmann
Marta was inspired by (my) [https://fman.io](https://fman.io) [1]. Marta's
author criticises that fman doesn't feel native enough because it is also
available for Windows and Linux. (It's based on PyQt.) What you get in return
however are a more vibrant community and plugin ecosystem in Python.

[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13921631](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13921631)

~~~
SyneRyder
Also from Marta's author in that thread:

 _" The development of Marta started the long before I knew about fman, so
it's not any kind of imitation."_

 _" I don't think we are the direct competitors. fman is a completely another
project with its own strong and weak points. I tried fman and didn't like it
because of numerous reasons, but it's my own opinion."_

Two column file manager interfaces have been around for a long time, fman
certainly didn't invent it. Marta seems to draw more influence from Midnight
Commander / Norton Commander, with the function key reminders at the bottom of
the window. The breadcrumbs and tabs in Marta remind me more of Panic's
Transmit, and those UI elements aren't in fman. There's elements of the
standard Mac finder in there. It is definitely not a clone of fman.

I think that was a really unfair comment, designed to get traffic to a
competing product.

~~~
mherrmann
Also from that thread:

> This is eerily similar to fman

> I was about to ask if this was some form of re-release

So it's not just me who thinks the similarities are uncanny.

------
dymk
I would love vim keybindings for this. It's much more intuitive than
Finder.app's keybindings, but I hate leaving my home row.

~~~
yanex
The default bindings are just a de facto standard for double-pane file
managers. But all key bindings are configurable, and you can set them to
whatever you want in the configuration file. Check the documentation [1] for
more information.

[1] [https://marta.yanex.org/docs#key-
bindings](https://marta.yanex.org/docs#key-bindings)

------
binaryanomaly
Nice! I like it and see potential. Was quite disappointed of all the OSX file
managers so far and I think I've tried them all.

After staying for a bit with pathfinder I'm back to finder. While not super
decent it still doesn't get into my way too often.

Something more advanced would be welcome though and I would even be willing to
pay for it, given it suits my needs. That means though I rather wait for v1.0
because I miss quit a lot of features / ui usability in the current state.

Make it the Sublimetext of file managers and you have a customer.

------
saagarjha
So, I see a plugin API for this, as well as a sample Swift plugin:
[https://github.com/marta-file-
manager/HelloWorldPlugin](https://github.com/marta-file-
manager/HelloWorldPlugin). How are you making this work? As far as I know,
creating plugins in Swift is a bad idea because trying to load two of them
with incompatible runtimes (a likely possibility, since Swift doesn't have a
stable ABI) would cause bad things to happen.

~~~
yanex
Well, until Swift introduces ABI compatibility, this is definitely a problem,
as both Marta API and a plugin need to be built with the same version of
Swift.

Depending on the Swift release roadmap, I'll postpone 1.0 until the release of
Swift 5, or make the API ObjC-compatible.

I also have plans for making a "lightweight API" (possibly in Lua). It will
support only the subset of features available in the "full API", but if that
would be sufficient, nothing prevents it from becoming the "right" way of
writing plugins for Marta. (In any case, Swift API won't disappear).

~~~
saagarjha
> both Marta API and a plugin need to be built with the same version of Swift

As far as I’m aware, this isn’t a problem, since your communicating between
the two using the Objective-C runtime, which is resilient to the underlying
ABI because it essentially overlays its own. The issue arises when you have
two _plugins_ with incompatible versions of Swift: in this case, each will
load its own standard library, which will lead to conflicts since for any
given function in the shared library one of the implementations has to “win
out”. This will cause at least one of the plugins to be unable to interface
with the standard library correctly.

------
Numberwang
The queue thing is something I've always wanted for Windows. Probably for the
last 15 years I've wondered why they have't added this and made it a default.

~~~
WalterGR
What? Windows 8 introduced this - and it's better than what's shown in the
Marta screenshot.

[https://images.techhive.com/images/idge/imported/article/itw...](https://images.techhive.com/images/idge/imported/article/itw/2012/02/09/winlin-01-290-100517043-orig.png)

~~~
Numberwang
Your screenshot shows exactly what’s wrong. I want a queue.

~~~
mtone
Teracopy has this feature. It's not a file manager, just replaces copy/move
operations.

------
declanqian
Just downloaded the beta. Saturday morning. The time I opened the app. I
realized I have Emacs dired. I don't need this... Sorry. The UI does look
good.

------
dvcrn
I would like to try to use this as default manager for things like `open .`
and `reveal in finder` actions. `defaults write -g NSFileViewer -string
org.yanex.marta` did a pretty good job with some things but others still don't
work.

Is there any way to set it as default?

------
zhtway
I haven’t fully tested yet. But I like double pane FM. Thanks for your app.
Why you still leave copyright year to 2016 to 2017? Shouldn’t be 2018?

~~~
yanex
Forgot to update it, my shame! :) Will be updated in 0.5.1.

------
yogthos
On a related note, I highly recommend Midnight Commander midnight-
commander.org

------
tuananh
this is so nice. love the app already!

\- feature wise, it's not as good as forklift yet but the performance, ui
(personal preference) are much better.

------
wintercanoe
Pathfinder is a great file manager for Mac:
[https://cocoatech.com/](https://cocoatech.com/)

