
Apple Increases Prices of Macs in U.K. By 20 Percent - antouank
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-28/apple-increases-prices-of-macs-in-u-k-by-20-percent
======
overcast
I'm not one to complain about paying for quality, but their pricing across the
board is just getting ridiculous. There's no major innovation here to justify
such price hikes. 16GB RAM limits on a $3200 laptop is bewildering to me. If
the strategy here is to kill off the Mac brand, while focusing only on the
iPhone, then I think they are well on their way.

If it wasn't for the Mac OS, I wouldn't even bother considering their lineup
anymore.

Edit: Additional thoughts. That OLED touch bar is going to be the equivalent
of force touch on the iPhone. Neat idea, that will be forgotten. Also, whose
idea was it to make that track pad ENORMOUS? When has anyone ever wished they
had a track pad that took up 2/3 of the palm area? I hope their palm sensing
is 100% perfect.

~~~
moduspwnens14
> If it wasn't for the Mac OS, I wouldn't even bother considering their lineup
> anymore.

macOS does have costs to develop, too, though--and they only recoup that
investment when people buy Macs. There's also these things:

* Unibody case

* Thinness, lightness, aesthetics

* Better keyboard

* Dramatically better trackpad

* Hardware / software integration

* Internet Recovery / Target Disk Mode / Time Machine

* Environmental friendliness

* Resale value

* Lasting 5+ years for even normal consumers

* Apple's Support vs. Dell's or Microsoft's

I'm OK with it. It's fairly common industry knowledge that companies like Dell
and Acer barely turn a profit on consumer PCs. It's unreasonable to expect
Apple to make such a better computer at the same price.

~~~
rayiner
> It's fairly common industry knowledge that companies like Dell and Acer
> barely turn a profit on consumer PCs. It's unreasonable to expect Apple to
> make such a better computer at the same price.

The razor-thin margins in PC space force PC manufacturers into making bizarre
compromises. I've been looking for a rMBP 15" replacement for about a year now
and every alternative seems to have some sort of deal breaker driven by cost
cutting. Coil whine on the XPS 15, low-contrast IPS displays on much of HP's
lineup, PWM backlights on the T560, 50-60 watt-hour batteries on laptops that
aren't any smaller than the rMBP, which packs 100 watt-hours (or used to,
grr).

I think the new rMBP 15" is a less good machine than the 2013-2015 model. But
there still may be nothing comparable at any price-point.

~~~
cableshaft
> I think the new rMBP 15" is a less good machine than the 2013-2015 model.

Could you elaborate on that? I'm debating getting a 2015 refurb, but is there
a reason I should get an even older one?

~~~
rayiner
The 2013-2015 models are basically the same machine, except the 2015 has the
Force Trackpad. I think the 2016 model is a regression from the previous one.

------
neximo64
Using the top range 15" MBP at default specs:

IE - EUR 3,299.00 = 3602.39 USD

DK - DKK 24.599,00 = 3593.48

PL - PLN 13,899.0 = 3501.63 USD

DE - EUR 3.199,00 = 3493.20 USD

FR - EUR 3.199,00 = 3493.20 USD

SE - SEK 31495 = 3488.44 USD

NZ - NZD 4,699.00 = 3352.01 USD

GB - GBP 2,699.00 = 3270.46 USD

AU - AUD 4,249.00 = 3217.66 USD

CH - CHF 3,149.00 = 3167.53 USD

CN - RMB 21,488 = 3167.59 USD

JP - JPY 278800 = 2646.14 USD

CA - CAD 3,499.00 = 2613.99 USD

US Price - 2,799.00 USD.

Interesting:

\- Best price is in Canada

\- Ireland has the most expensive in the single market

\- Cheapest in the EU still is in the UK (don't complain guys)

\- Cheapest in the single market in Switzerland.

~~~
phlo
VAT is already factored into EU prices. Germany and France charge 19% and 20%,
respectively -- Ireland charges 23%, which explains a difference of roughly
$100.

Switzerland has a lower VAT rate of 8%, so the lower price compared to EU
countries is understandable.

~~~
vetinari
Yet the difference is still higher that VAT: 2800 * 1,23 = 3444, which still
makes some 158 USD difference.

Not that it would be something new: during times when 1 EUR was more than 1,3
USD, the European prices were higher than or at least equal numerically to USD
prices.

And before someone mentions 2 year mandatory warranty in EU: 1) you won't get
it as a business, only as an end user, yet you will pay the same and 2) only
some EU countries get Apple Stores and Apple support. In all the other
countries you get your service through contract service centers that have to
wait for everything for Apple, which means that the usual service time is ~30
days.

------
mpweiher
Since beginning of the year, the British Pound has fallen from $1.55 to $1.25.
Let's see, what is 1.25/1.55 ?

    
    
       0.806452
    

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/11/1...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/11/12/twelve_month.stm)

I think I know where that 20% came from. #Brexit.

~~~
HalfwayToDice
Errrr, UK prices for the Macbook Pro are the cheapest in Europe, even after
the worldwide rise of 25%.

So you are incorrect

~~~
mpweiher
(a) What worldwide rise?

(b) Since the increase is due to the exchange rate, yes, the relative price
compared to other countries doesn't/didn't change. That's kind of how exchange
rates work...

~~~
HalfwayToDice
The price of the Macbook Pro has risen in every country. This is an Apple
price rise, not a UK exchange rate rise.

I'm not sure what else there is to say? You are completely ignoring facts in
front of you, and choosing single numbers that fit your pre-defined Brexit
narrative. Reasoned debate with you is not possible. Sorry.

~~~
ascorbic
The prices in Britain for existing products are around 20% more than they were
last week. Mac Pro is now £2,999, up from £2,499. The Mac mini is £479, up
from £399. The Macbook Pro is a new model, so comparing the price for that is
meaningless. And yes, if you convert all the prices into USD then the UK is
cheap. People in the UK aren't paid in USD though, and it's the GBP price that
has increased.

------
lunchladydoris
I'm confused. The chart says that local sales taxes are included. In the UK,
VAT is 20%, so what's so strange about the price being 20% higher than in the
US?

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Yes, I just checked their example for the MacBook Pro, $1299 in the US, £1249
in the UK which is $1500, the extra is accounted for by 20% VAT which vendors
must include in their prices in the UK.

However if I compare prices to the beginning of the year they are about 25%
higher, an obvious affect of the currency movements.

~~~
HalfwayToDice
Except it's not because it rose 25% in all countries. Sorry.

~~~
kgwgk
What rose 25% in all countries since the beginning of the year?

The entry level macbook pro (ignoring "legacy" models) is 15% more expensive
than the previous model in the US, 20% more expensive in Switzerland, 45% more
expensive in the UK.

------
danieldk
And so do Microsoft and others as the article states. As others have pointed
out[1], if you add the UK sales tax and account for the exchange rate, Brits
are paying virtually the same as north Americans.

The real news is that the result of the Brexit and the GBPs 31-year low are
now felt.

[1]
[https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/791713383422697472](https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/791713383422697472)

------
seibelj
When your currency goes down, expect import prices to rise. It's really that
simple

~~~
blowski
When prices for imported electronic goods go up by 20% across the board, I'll
agree that this is due purely to the currency shift. I don't see that
happening.

~~~
bartread
That may depend when suppliers' contracts on currency hedges come to an end.

The fact is the currency is down about 20% +/\- so it's only a matter of time
before that starts to filter through to prices on the high street. Apple are
the first to move in this sector but I don't think they'll be the last.

This is why all the talk of the economy "booming" (here I quote The Daily
Express's headline from, I think, this morning) infuriates me. We haven't seen
that much in the way of price rises yet but, when we do, consumer spending may
well take a hit, and at that point the growth may begin to look less healthy
(1).

(And if that happens the same goldfish-memoried newspapers will bleat about
how the economy's taking a beating, as if the signs aren't already there.)

 _(1) Or perhaps it will balance out as exports remain strong due to the weak
pound. Economics is hard._

~~~
crdoconnor
>This is why all the talk of the economy "booming" (here I quote The Daily
Express's headline from, I think, this morning) infuriates me.

All the talk of a cataclysmic economic disaster and paternalistic sarcasm
about not listening to economic "experts" (those same people blindsided by
_every_ crisis) before the vote was just as infuriating. Especially since a
lot of it was in response to a panic over the potential of rising wages.

Plus, those people don't seem to realize that there's basically a two tier
economy in the UK. The macbook buying, riviera-holidaying, large-retirment
portfolio economy in the South and then the North of the M25 economy where
people have jobs and make things for export and vacation in the UK.

The former has been booming for years and is suddenly infuriated. The latter
has been in recession and ignored for years and will likely be seeing the
majority of the upside from Brexit.

~~~
walshemj
Not when the cost of food, petrol, and heating goes up they wont.

~~~
crdoconnor
Wages and employment going up will cushion that blow, as will (to a certain
extent), import substitution.

There are no local sources for Macbook Pros that you can shift your
consumption towards but there are local sources of groceries, and a more
competitive export sector will mean more jobs and higher paid jobs.

~~~
walshemj
Lol you know wages have been flat since 2008

~~~
crdoconnor
We've had a huge trade deficit too. Things are gonna change.

------
mpalfrey
Don't I know it. The prices for the specs are stupid and this is coming from
someone with a 13" MBA for a personal machine and a 15" MBP for a work one.

I can see myself ending up with a Dell XPS 13 or similar to replace the MBA
and maybe a Lenovo P50 for a work machine. Win 10 isn't a bad OS especially
with a native Bash terminal now!

~~~
technofiend
I like the native Linux support on the XPS 13 but it too tops out at 16GB of
RAM with a 512GB SSD (Order Code cax15w10ph1603m). With all the VMs you can
spin up playing with Docker, Kubernetes, etc the more RAM the better, man.

If I configure nearly equal systems - i7 with 16 GB of memory and 512GB SSD,
the premium for an Apple system stands at $700 ($1,799 versus $2,499 prior to
a Dell 10% discount offered on their website.) I say "nearly equal" because
the processor on Dell is quoted as "up to 3.5 GHz" and Apple's is 3.3GHz. The
16GB limitation is disappointing because according to Intel's ARK for the
quoted Dell part (i7550u), max memory is 32 GB.
[http://ark.intel.com/products/95451/Intel-
Core-i7-7500U-Proc...](http://ark.intel.com/products/95451/Intel-
Core-i7-7500U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz-)

Edit: According to wikipedia the top-end 13" MBP sports a i5-6567U but the
apple configurator will let you select a 3.3 GHz i7 part. No idea which actual
part it is. Anyone know?

------
oarsinsync
Flagged, article has a misleading headline that is largely debunked in the
comments (e.g.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12815204](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12815204))
showing that by and large the difference in price tracks extremely closely
with the difference in sales tax in differing regions, despite the additional
regulatory costs involved in doing business in those regions.

~~~
salamander22
How is it misleading that some Macs in the UK have increased since this time
yesterday, despite not getting any updates?

~~~
HalfwayToDice
It's misleading because the Mac pricing has risen in EVERY country.

HackerNews tends towards fact-based information, not politically biased stuff.
The article was laughably trying to shoehorn in a Brexit narrative. And I'm
already seeing the article being shared on Facebook. When it comes to Brexit,
facts become irrelevant it seems.

~~~
salamander22
Just checked the Wayback Machine for other few random countries (US, France)
and the prices for the Mac Mini did not change yesterday evening, whilst in
the UK the 3 Mac Mini options rose by between 15-16%.

How do you explain this?

~~~
m3ta
Neither the title of this thread nor the article linked touch on this subject.

------
Zenst
If only companies were as quick to cut prices when a currency equally gains.
They do not.

~~~
trentnix
It's a phenomenon I've noticed with gas prices. When the price of oil goes up,
gas provides immediately follow. When the price of oil goes down, the price
reduction seems to lag a bit.

Maybe I'm imagining things, but that's the gist I got in the mid-2000s.

------
Jdam
UK people stop complaining. I can still fly from Berlin to London, buy the Mac
there, fly back and still get kinda wasted on the amount I saved.

~~~
m_mueller
hmm maybe fly to Basel? I think Swiss Apple store prices are not much above
the US.

~~~
Jdam
But then I'd have to avoid customs or pay an additional 15%.

~~~
Jtsummers
I've often wondered. How effective is customs at actually collecting on things
like that? I mean, if you come in with 3 or 4 laptops in the boxes, sure. But,
using my girlfriend's situation as an example: She lives in Buenos Aires,
iPhones and iPads are more expensive than in the US. If she travels here,
picks up an iPhone and starts using it, how are they to know when she gets to
customs that she bought it here and wasn't already traveling with it? They
don't have a database of everything you left with. And she's already traveling
with two phones (work and personal) most of the time anyways.

~~~
systemtest
Based on the serial number they can see the manufacturing date. And because
each market has a different model number (due to things such as power plug,
wifi frequency restrictions, keyboard layout and such) it's easy to spot a
"USA" model versus a "South American" model.

~~~
Jtsummers
Ok, that's reasonable. That still leaves the possibility that you declared it
before which would imply needing to keep a record of the original customs
declaration every time you travel?

------
dep_b
MacBook prices went up in all of Europe, just like the iPhones went up in
price. I feel a lot less bad about getting an "old" MacBook 2015 last year for
the old prices.

I think a lot of people would like to see the UK crash and burn because of
their audacity to get out of the EU, but I don't think there will be much of a
negative impact.

If you see the kind of treaties the EU likes to sign with Canada or the US
they absolute have no problems to follow the money eventually. It goes above
all principles really. They will figure something out, the real problem is the
EU doesn't want to make getting out of the EU look like an appealing idea so
in the short run you will hear a lot of these negative stories.

------
Tepix
I had my credit card ready before the presentation to buy a MBPr13 to replace
my slow Macbook Air 11.

The new prices are laughable. Let's have a look at the Macbook compared to the
Dell XPS 13 (9350-4891).

Both have fast 512GB SSDs, 16GB RAM, backlit keyboards, all-day battery life

    
    
      Macbook Pro 13"              Dell XPS 13 9350-4891
      i5 2.9Ghz                    i7-6500U 2.5Ghz
      Iris Graphics 550            Iris Graphics 520
      2560x1600 13.3"              3200x1800 13.3" slim bezel
      1.37kg                       1.29kg
      4x TB 3                      1x TB 3, 2x USB 3.0, SD
      Bluetooth 4.2                Bluetooth 4.1
      AirPlay                      MiraCast
      54Wh battery                 56Wh battery
      Touchbar                     
      2439€                        1428€
    

The price difference is more than 1000€! Also the Dell can be ordered with
Linux instead of Windows 10 which means it will have good driver support there
as well. It can even be used as a Hackintosh!

Finally, the XPS 13 is also available with 7th generation i7 CPUs (with HD 620
gfx).

~~~
otterley
A common mistake when determining the value of a depreciating asset is to
value the asset on the sale price instead of the depreciation. For example, if
the following are true:

* Resale price of the MBP after 1 year: 2000€

* Resale price of the XPS after 1 year: 700€

Then the MBP is a better value, because you've spent ~400€ for a 1-year use of
it, vs. ~700€ for a 1-year use of the XPS.

~~~
willtim
Why would he want to sell it after only 1 year? Both machines will depreciate
rapidly. The Mac probably having the shortest lifespan in terms of how long
Apple will support it with OS and security updates.

~~~
otterley
There's never been a laptop younger than 7 years that Apple stopped supporting
with a new OS release.

------
snowwolf
This headline is misleading/disingenuous.

They are taking the difference between the base price in the US excluding
taxes and the UK price including VAT to calculate the difference, rather than
the difference between the NY price - which includes local sales taxes and is
therefore a more accurate comparison.

In which case the price increase is 'only' about 10% - which is still quite a
bit but not what the headline would have you believe.

~~~
salamander22
Actually, the prices have been increased here in the UK.

Example, the iMac model went up some £300 for no reason. The Mac Mini
increased all models within the range by around 16%.

~~~
snowwolf
Yes, but the prices in the US have increased too. But in the table in the
article, they are showing a 22% difference in price between US and UK for the
Macbook Pro, which is not true.

------
ianpurton
The pound has devalued against the dollar due to the Brexit.

Apple records revenue in dollars so you need more pounds to buy the same kit
so they can convert those pounds into their base currency.

The good news is, if you're planning a trip to London from abroad then for a
while consumer electronics are pretty cheap. i.e. Sony cameras etc.

------
riazrizvi
Nothing to do with the 20% drop in the pound vs the dollar. Why won't Apple
subsidize Brexit?

~~~
HalfwayToDice
UK pricing for new Macbook Pro is cheapest in Europe. Sorry, what were you
saying?

~~~
riazrizvi
I'm sorry, I don't understand.

------
s_kilk
Lads, the Pound has dropped about 20% against the Dollar since the Brexit
result in June. Cool it.

------
ommunist
Looks like I will switch to Linux for webdev and to Win for everything Adobe.
Sad times.

~~~
radarsat1
Man, Adobe _still_ has no Linux products? This is 2016.. I thought we were
"getting there"..

~~~
gtbono
Creative Cloud on Ubuntu would be awesome, would suffice a lot of reasons I
have to buy a Mac

------
aq3cn
They need fund for more R&D. It's good move to survive in near future. If they
could bring anything new this time, it's okay. Tomorrow they may and some else
may not. Competition is important.

~~~
Tepix
They have plenty of funds for R&D!

------
jasonkester
A small price to pay for no longer having to label our strawberries.

~~~
EliRivers
We won't have to label our strawberries because they will rot in the fields
for lack of fruit pickers :)

------
pierotofy
Breaking news: price of British pound drops by 20%

------
wayanon
My first PowerBook was £1749 I think in 2001 but I'd hoped we'd said goodbye
to that kind of pricing at entry level.

------
cryptrash
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, UK.

Y'all check out some Chromebooks now, and maybe even consider some odroid
products. I have a cardboard phone box with a little crappy USB fan ziptied
onto it, a small keyboard and standalone 8" hdmi display. Fits into my
lunchbox, can stream 1080p,do whatever I want, and for the price of the new
MBP I can build ten more.

Play stupid games...

~~~
salamander22
What's the connection between the 'stupid game' and Chromebooks?

------
audessuscest
In France (Euro zone ?) prices are about 200€ more expensive than in dollar...

~~~
kgwgk
Again? [1]

Ex-VAT the difference is just 3% (40 eur) for the entry model.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12808053](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12808053)

------
0x0
A maxxed out mbp costs €5000, this must be some kind of world record.

------
Melown
16gb limit is bullshit

------
beedogs
They're clearly trying to get out of the computing business altogether.
Phones, tablets, and other trinkets are where the money is.

~~~
pc86
TIL a phone is a trinket and not a small computer.

