
Berlin public transport in real time - fdellavedova
http://fahrinfo.vbb.de/bin/help.exe/dn?L=vs_mobilitymap&&tpl=fullmap&tabApp=show&initialX=13354846&initialY=52478287&initialZ=3936&
======
DangerousPie
Looks like they are just interpolating the location between two stations using
the expected arrival times. If no expected arrival times are available, they
simply simulate the location to match the planned arrival times. So this is
not really "live".

> VBB-Livekarte zeigt berechnete Positionen der Fahrzeuge zwischen zwei
> Stationen; falls kein Live-Fahrplan vorhanden, dann Position gemäß geplanten
> Fahrzeiten

~~~
kokey
That shouldn't be a problem if the trains are on time.

~~~
erikb
That was either the best joke ever, or you haven't used German S-Bahn yet.
(The "S" is supposed to be short for the German word for "city" but we
jokingly refer to them as "standing still-train" instead of "city-train")

~~~
aap_
Actually I don't think it is 100% known what the "S" stands for. I think
"Stadtschnellbahn" is most likely. The "Stadtbahn" only refers to the east-
west route.

~~~
erikb
Good to know, because many towns have that I thought it's really Stadt-Bahn.
Didn't know S5/7/75 have that special name.

------
trymas
Real time public transport in Vilnius:
[http://stops.lt/vilnius/#vilnius/map/en](http://stops.lt/vilnius/#vilnius/map/en)

Select this icon:
[http://stops.lt/vilnius/_images/vehicles.gif](http://stops.lt/vilnius/_images/vehicles.gif),
on the right, to show vehicles as bubbles.

It is real time from GPS transmitters inside the vehicles.

~~~
tychuz
Busses update their location only every 1 minute and website just sends a get
request every 5 seconds.

Not what I would call realtime.

~~~
edejong
What would be real time for you? Every second? Millisecond? Or should we make
hard constraints on the maximum latency (< 5 ms). Does the original site show
the unavailability of data (within the original update frequency?).

Furthermore, if it takes 3 minutes to communicate a delayed train, and your
screen is still trying to create a make-believe of updating your screen every
50 milliseconds, is it real-time?

I would even say that the 1 minute update is more real-time than the make-
believe 50 millisecond updates.

------
dearmrpres
There is a similar tool for the whole world created by a german student a few
years ago - [http://tracker.geops.de](http://tracker.geops.de) \- albeit
without RT data for berlin because apparently they dont have access to it. But
they do have RT data for the netherlands.

~~~
pb4
Creator here - since 2014, development is being done at geOps where I am
currently working at. geOps is also providing the entire infrastructure. We
are constantly looking for more static or real time feeds.

We are using the same method as the VBB - interpolated timetable data
augmented with station-based delay-information where available.

~~~
callesgg
Wow that is very cool, not super accurate where i live but cool.

BTW the map cant handle unicode stuff properly there is a boat line called
"Sjövägen" where is live and on the map it is named "Sj?"

------
ddfreyne
This appears to use the theoretical schedule, rather than real-time
information. I live next to a busy tram line, and what I see through the
window does not match what the site shows.

~~~
dmitrykoval
Totally, buses never seem to stop at traffic lights.

~~~
mechazawa
In my city, Eindhoven in the Netherlands, traffic lights are often calibrated
to make sure that buses don't have to stop at a red light.

~~~
davedx
It goes beyond that in the Netherlands. A lot of bus lanes have their own
traffic light system -- they have very small lights to show when they can go
or stop. :)

~~~
telegato
This also exists in Germany

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96PNV-
Bevorrechtigung](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96PNV-Bevorrechtigung)

(Sorry, no english version available)

~~~
Symbiote
These exist in Britain, but are only used for trams.

[http://www.ukmotorists.com/tram_signs.asp](http://www.ukmotorists.com/tram_signs.asp)

For buses, there would be a normal traffic light controlling only a bus lane,
usually labelled with the blue buses only sign. It's not very common, but I
know a couple of cases in London.

------
sccxy
Tallinn, Estonia: [http://soiduplaan.tallinn.ee/#tallinna-
linn/map/en](http://soiduplaan.tallinn.ee/#tallinna-linn/map/en)

I made simpler map for my personal usage.

[http://siim.planet.ee/yhistransport-
live/](http://siim.planet.ee/yhistransport-live/)

~~~
lucaspiller
There is also the Trafi app which has live data (and route planning) across
all the Baltic countries and a few others.

[http://www.trafi.com/](http://www.trafi.com/)

------
deanclatworthy
Helsinki has one for their trams, subway and ferries:
[http://live.mattersoft.fi/hsl/Default.aspx?lang=en](http://live.mattersoft.fi/hsl/Default.aspx?lang=en)

I _really_ wish there was this service for buses. Quite often the digital
displays saying when the bus will arrive are inaccurate, as are the actual
timetables printed on the bus stop (when there is traffic etc.)

~~~
fcmk
And this one for the trains in Finland:
[http://188.117.35.14/vrviewer/VrViewer.html?locale=fi_FI](http://188.117.35.14/vrviewer/VrViewer.html?locale=fi_FI)

Click 'x' on the popup and zoom in to Helsinki to see the city trains. The
site says the data is GPS location data.

------
rplnt
Here's one for Brno (Czech Republic) and surrounding areas (South Moravia
region): [http://iris.bmhd.cz/](http://iris.bmhd.cz/)

You can enable/disable different types of vehicles: trams, trolleybuses, city
buses, regional buses, regional trains, ships (in that order).

No ships today, as the season ended last month).

------
teamhappy
I'm glad they use OpenStreetMap instead of Google Maps. Well done.

~~~
distances
Agree, though I think this particular map style isn't meant for end-user
applications. It shows absolutely everything, and is quite cluttered for this
reason. They would be better off choosing one of the more minimal styles.

------
mrtsepelev
In Russia same thing works in real-time (interpolating anything based on
schedule will not be the best idea for busses / trams I believe) Mobile app
from Yandex (works in Moscow & Saint-Petersburg):
[https://itunes.apple.com/ru/app/andeks.transport/id826358136...](https://itunes.apple.com/ru/app/andeks.transport/id826358136?mt=8)
Web version in Saint-Petersburg:
[http://transport.orgp.spb.ru/Portal/transport/main;jsessioni...](http://transport.orgp.spb.ru/Portal/transport/main;jsessionid=CC774084502FAC0F34762795FA625832)

------
gevz
Open-source platform that provide real-time info for Atlanta, Puget Sound,
Tampa, York, or New York City.
[http://onebusaway.org/](http://onebusaway.org/)

~~~
erikb
Last day in Atlanta, I wish I had known that page a month ago.

------
antr
A keynote worth watching regarding transport visualisation:
[http://www.architecture.io/talks/till-nagel-unfolding-the-
ci...](http://www.architecture.io/talks/till-nagel-unfolding-the-city/)

------
ff7c11
Was glad to see them using OpenStreetMap.

------
sawwit
A live map that loads in 2 seconds on my machine is Internet done right. Well
done.

------
jejones3141
Neat. In Pittsburgh, I think all the buses now have GPS and report their
location. There's an app that displays the locations of buses on the routes
you select.

Alas, I've seen several cases in which the bus's labeling is in error, with
the driver calling out the correct route to people at bus stops. Sadly that
doesn't affect the reported route or correct what the app displays.

------
eddd
Am I missing something, or these updates are just estimates? I could see any
periodical http requests, long running call or web sockets open.

------
kevindeasis
Here is one for SF: [https://www.sflivebus.com/](https://www.sflivebus.com/)

------
mineo
The same thing exists for regional and inter city trains in germany that the
Deutsche Bahn is responsible for: [http://www.apps-bahn.de/bin/livemap/query-
livemap.exe/dn?L=v...](http://www.apps-bahn.de/bin/livemap/query-
livemap.exe/dn?L=vs_livefahrplan&livemap=yes)

------
orthur_b
Also public transport in Saint Petersburg
[http://transport.orgp.spb.ru/Portal/transport/main;jsessioni...](http://transport.orgp.spb.ru/Portal/transport/main;jsessionid=1E14BDE92F52BB6F043A33864FFD57EF)

------
benten10
Cool idea for the hackers out there:

Use public transport data from all the sources below, overlap them on Google
aerial view, change the dots to 'top view' images of buses, and let the users
follow buses in 'real time' across 'real life' map. It'll be like a real-time
satellite imagery!

Also: keep the directions in mind. This one (posted downthread) shows where
the buses are pointed too. [http://traintimes.org.uk/map/london-
buses/#41](http://traintimes.org.uk/map/london-buses/#41)

Link me if someone decides/has done this. I might be able to contribute

------
DCoder
Vilnius, Lithuania:
[http://stops.lt/vilnius/#vilnius/map/en](http://stops.lt/vilnius/#vilnius/map/en)
(click "Show vehicles").

------
pranavrc
I wrote a client-side library for this:
[http://onloop.net/transit](http://onloop.net/transit)
[http://onloop.net/chennairailmap](http://onloop.net/chennairailmap)

All the transport maps at that time I knew about, like Swisstrains
([http://maps.vasile.ch/transit-sbb/](http://maps.vasile.ch/transit-sbb/)),
worked off webservers, so that was the motivation behind writing a purely
client-side app.

------
brianzelip
Amtrak (USA) has a static visualization of its active trains.

Unfortunately you can't click to it, so here's a screenshot:
[http://imgur.com/TJwTBAY](http://imgur.com/TJwTBAY)

To get to it, go to [http://www.amtrak.com/find-train-bus-stations-train-
routes](http://www.amtrak.com/find-train-bus-stations-train-routes)

then click on the "Check Train Status" image near the top right of the page.

The difference in train presence between USA and elsewhere is staggering (and
embarrassing).

~~~
untog
To be fair, you're comparing the Berlin metro system with a national rail
system. [http://www.livetrain.nyc](http://www.livetrain.nyc) is an example of
live tracking on the NYC subway (though not on all lines).

------
bdr
I've been wondering whether you can use accelerometer data, which does not
require user permission (on websites and mobile apps), to precisely determine
geolocation for some users, which does require permission. This page makes
Berlin commuters seem like a plausible target. A few more details here:
[http://andrewbadr.tumblr.com/post/132618372956/projects-
im-n...](http://andrewbadr.tumblr.com/post/132618372956/projects-im-not-doing-
device-acceleration-data)

------
EiZei
Obligatory "my city has one too!"-post for Helsinki:
[http://live.mattersoft.fi/hsl/](http://live.mattersoft.fi/hsl/)

------
james_pm
And Toronto's bus and streetcar network...not quite as fancy, but Toronto's
Open Data system makes this possible.

Live tracking: [http://totransit.ca](http://totransit.ca)

Open Data:
[http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=9e56...](http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=9e56e03bb8d1e310VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD)

------
eloy
The URL:

> [http://fahrinfo.vbb.de/bin/help.exe](http://fahrinfo.vbb.de/bin/help.exe)

Who would run this on a webserver?

~~~
Piskvorrr
RewriteRule /bin/help.exe /node/whatever.js [L,QSA] # where's your CGI now?

I have seen such rewrites in place to keep old CGI URLs from breaking, as
their consumers were scattered all over time and space, and it was easier to
internally remap the old URLs (which have over the years essentially become a
public API) than have them stop working.

~~~
dagw
Yea, had a colleague many years ago who worked on a very large web site where
all the php files ended in .asp

------
abetusk
I created a real time map for Boston:
[http://bostontraintrack.com](http://bostontraintrack.com) .

It uses live data but it doesn't interpolate position. It updates about every
15-20s or so. Source is available (and FOSS) [1].

[1]
[https://github.com/abetusk/bostontraintrack](https://github.com/abetusk/bostontraintrack)

------
ojii
Japan: [http://www.demap.info/tetsudonow/](http://www.demap.info/tetsudonow/)

------
sashazykov
[http://www.map.gortransperm.ru/](http://www.map.gortransperm.ru/) \- Perm,
Russia. You need to select a route and click "show vehicles" button to see it.
( annotated screenshot
[http://i.imgur.com/g0OGJsG.png](http://i.imgur.com/g0OGJsG.png) )

------
supermatt
I was watching 2 S-Bahn approaching each other towards the centre of where the
map loads. Creeping ever closer, then BAM! only one visible and stationary for
the past minute. Should I call the emergency services? ;)

Looks awesome by the way, I wish this were more common. In the UK, many
similar projects were shut down over IP issues.

------
aylons
São Paulo:
[http://tracker.geops.ch/?z=13&s=1&x=-5192138.9629&y=-2699539...](http://tracker.geops.ch/?z=13&s=1&x=-5192138.9629&y=-2699539.6461&l=transport)

Small blue points are buses, larger circles are on rails (subway and trains).

------
jacko0
Real time London Transport Visualization. Available on GitHub too.

vizicities.com

ViziCities is the first project to visualise the entire London Underground
network in 3D using accurate station depths. Not only that, we also visualise
real, live trains moving along the 3D network.

------
orless
See also "Zugradar" of the Deutsche Bahn:

[http://www.bahn.de/zugradar](http://www.bahn.de/zugradar)

Also made by HaCon ([http://www.hacon.de](http://www.hacon.de)).

------
gpvos
Curiously, when you zoom out, you can scroll as far east as the
Polish/Byelorussian border, but in west/south direction you can barely see all
of former East Germany.

------
graffitici
Now I'm even more glad I moved to Berlin from NYC..!

------
TeMPOraL
It's awesome. The good side of data collecting :).

------
gpvos
Dutch railways: [http://spoorkaart.mwnn.nl/](http://spoorkaart.mwnn.nl/)

~~~
atgc
The NS Reisplanner Android app has recently gotten an official map (called
Treinradar).

------
rtpg
does anyone know the Tokyo one? pretty impressive how many trains are going
through some stations there...

------
agumonkey
Not bad, but I just two trains collide into a building. A bit frightening at
first.

------
ant6n
Given the interest here, I feel like we should talk about transit more often
on HN

------
silvestrov
Try check all checkboxes and zoom out 2 steps. It's a huge number of buses.

------
LoSboccacc
this could be used to make the most incredible 'scotland yard' mmowiw

------
ZanyProgrammer
Bay Area transit is horrible at providing GPS positional data in APIs.

------
dannytip
We so need this in the UK

~~~
Symbiote
London did, 5 years ago, for the London Underground:
[http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/](http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/)

More recently, one London bus at a time: [http://traintimes.org.uk/map/london-
buses/#73](http://traintimes.org.uk/map/london-buses/#73)

There's a decent amount of open rail data, and a website listing usages:
[http://www.openraildata.info/](http://www.openraildata.info/)

~~~
ff7c11
This is cooler than the Berlin one tbh

------
ehosca
why can't NYCT/MTA have something like this?

~~~
sneak
Becaus software is eating the world and US governmental organizations are
really, really bad at not overpaying 40x for software.

[http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-
do...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-
where-all-the-trains-are/415152/)

------
haser_au
This is awesome

------
merlingore
Isn't this a security concern?

~~~
graup
According to the website, the location information isn't exact, but
"calculated" (whatever that means).

~~~
ff7c11
Ah. So no use in real-time if there is an unplanned delay as the map will show
that the train just went past you when in fact it didn't. Shame.

~~~
Piskvorrr
Not really.

As far as I understand the technologies (and I assume that Berlin does the
same thing as every other city-user), a precise ("physical") GPS position is
usually not reported (although newer systems do that as well), but a position
at a "logical" map is. In case of buses, this usually means "left the previous
stop at $xx:$yy, with $zz seconds of delay; reported average speed is normal
for this area, so expected arrival is at $aa:$bb." In case of trains, the
usual reported data is "has left section of track $AA, is now at $BB, delay $x
seconds, expected at $CC in $yy:$zz".

Not millisecond-perfect, but fairly precise to about a minute or two; the
biggest guesstimate is the exact position (you'll see that all the trains seem
to be using a single track, where in reality they would be on different ones).

So, while delays are reported near-realtime (and thus the scenario you
describe doesn't happen), the map _might_ be inaccurate if the route needs to
be changed (e.g. there's an accident blocking the road and a bus needs to take
the next street instead). Again, with the rollout of GPS-equipment across
fleets, this becomes less of an issue. Btw, most delays are unplanned ;)

~~~
Zach_the_Lizard
My understanding is that with newer CBTC signalling systems--not sure if
Berlin is using that--the trains know pretty much exactly where they are on
the track, along with the positions of all other trains, speeds, braking
distance, etc. This allows the trains to run closer together than they could
using fixed block signalling technology. It's not required for full
automation, but it makes full automation relatively simple.

The L train in New York is an example of where this is installed. My
understanding is this means the two staff on the train are redundant; the
driver pretty much just provides acknowledgement to the train to keep doing
its thing, and the conductor only opens and closes doors and makes
announcements (if that). They would run with only a single staff member except
for union rules.

~~~
ant6n
It seems that often the signalling system and the real time location reporting
system aren't integrated. In NYC on many lines you get reports like 'there's a
Brooklyn-bound train 2 stops away' that they make over the loud-speakers.
Makes me wonder whether they have a separate device that just picks up when
trains pass by a track segment, rather than using the information available
via the signalling.

~~~
Zach_the_Lizard
In New York the signalling system on most lines is ancient. The L train has a
CBTC signalling system and it has real time arrival information. The 1/2/3/
and 4/5/6 have had upgrades, though not to CBTC, to provide similar countdown
clock functionality. The 7 train is undergoing work to install CBTC.

On other lines, my understanding is that the signalling system doesn't know
_which_ train occupies a block, just that _a_ train occupies the block. Which
block is occupied isn't sent to a central control center either.

So "there's a Brooklyn-bound train 2 stops away" is the best it can do, since
it can know based on which side of the tracks the train is on where the train
is going. It can't know the letter or number.

------
kidsil
This is crazy interesting

------
zwarag
beautiful

