
UK government advisor caught out by Wayback machine - hermitcrab
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18474584.dominic-cummings-added-coronavirus-quote-blog-april/
======
gorgoiler
I make no comment on her politics, but the previous UK Prime Minister had
exactly the demeanor you could ask of a public servant.

It feels like she was the last of her kind, and it is governments of salesmen
from here on in.

If you encounter someone in your life who exhibits the culture of _rule
bending_ , bring _technically correct_ , or trying to _get away with
something_ , then please hold them to a higher standard, especially if they
have any kind of public role.

The alternative is these double speaking wheeler dealers — in this example,
one who is concocting a self serving interpretation of the lockdown rules —
who break that most golden of all rules: do unto others as you would have done
to yourself.

Or as I like to say it — _what if everyone behaved like you did?_

~~~
sideshowb
I'm not particularly outraged about what Cummings did under lockdown. Having a
medical emergency in the family ourselves a few weeks back we were actually
encouraged by healthcare workers to do something similar, though in fact we
decided against.

I _am_ outraged that he didn't at the time realise that others may need to do
similar, and issue clarification on the rules to publicise that this sort of
thing was permissible.

~~~
cm2187
But didn’t he quote the rule saying that in cases like the care of the young
child, the rules may not be practical and should be applied as well as
practically possible? If the rules indeed had this clause, doesn’t that
address exactly your second point?

~~~
makomk
Yes, which made all the bullshit media emotional appeals about how other
people who followed the rules were forced to wait as their loved ones died
alone in hospital, how they couldn't comfort them and go to their funerals,
etc rather dubious. (Especially since coronavirus spreads really well through
funerals and hospitals and really badly through brick walls and visits to
outdoor locations after the end of the likely infectious period.)

What made that tactic especially fragrant was the fact that Cummings also had
a dying family member in hospital who he and his other family members couldn't
visit, comfort, etc during the same time period and rather than consider that
maybe this might be a reason to step away from that argument, everyone seems
to have doubled down and used his family's grief as proof that they were
right.

------
lhnz
Is this as big a gotcha as people think it is?

The article which he quoted in length in 2019 [0] hasn't been modified and did
mention both SARS and Coronavirus. He's just amending the quote he took from
it.

Obviously the first time he quoted it, he didn't think it was relevant to show
the example, so contracted it by hand to "[An example]" [1].

In 2020, he realises that specifically mentioning SARS and Coronavirus in a
blog post about the dangers of biolabs causing a global pandemic will either
seem relevant or look prescient so he adds it back into the quote [2].

This implies that in 2019, he had read the article and was aware of threats
like coronavirus/SARS, but didn't think it was the important aspect of what he
was discussing. So his crime here is a bit like rewriting your CV for a new
job -- not lying about what you know or have done, but using different words
that emphasize new aspects to the new audience.

[0] [https://thebulletin.org/2019/02/human-error-in-high-
bioconta...](https://thebulletin.org/2019/02/human-error-in-high-
biocontainment-labs-a-likely-pandemic-threat)

[1]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20190331190550/https://dominiccu...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190331190550/https://dominiccummings.com/2019/03/04/the-
most-secure-bio-labs-routinely-make-errors-that-could-cause-a-global-pandemic-
are-about-to-re-start-experiments-on-pathogens-engineered-to-make-them-
mammalian-airborne-transmissible/)

[2] [https://dominiccummings.com/2019/03/04/the-most-secure-
bio-l...](https://dominiccummings.com/2019/03/04/the-most-secure-bio-labs-
routinely-make-errors-that-could-cause-a-global-pandemic-are-about-to-re-
start-experiments-on-pathogens-engineered-to-make-them-mammalian-airborne-
transmissible/)

~~~
ArgyleSound
> In 2020, he realises that specifically mentioning SARS and Coronavirus in a
> blog post about pandemics will seem relevant or look prescient so he adds it
> back into the quote

And that’s the problem isn’t it? He claims that he talked about the risks of
Coronaviruses before the pandemic, and yet the only evidence is an article
about biolab security (frankly not particularly relevant unless he’s
insinuating that’s the origin of this virus too) amended well after the
current pandemic began.

~~~
jondubois
The fact that he added the word 'coronavirus' does not change the fact that
SARS (which he in fact did mention before) was a coronavirus. He just added
the word 'coronavirus' next to SARS in an existing sentence to emphasize that
SARS is a coronavirus. He updated his article but didn't really change its
meaning.

It's not that big a deal IMO.

No need to lynch the guy over this.

~~~
pmachinery
> He just added the word 'coronavirus' next to SARS in an existing sentence to
> emphasize that SARS is a coronavirus.

That isn't what happened.

He copied a wall of text about Holland, the US, the UK, the CDC, influenza,
H5N1, bird flu, Ebola and specifically snipped out the part about
SARS/coronavirus and China. (The text he edited in just last month, in bold.)

He basically did the opposite of what he lied about doing.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20190331190550/https://dominiccu...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190331190550/https://dominiccummings.com/2019/03/04/the-
most-secure-bio-labs-routinely-make-errors-that-could-cause-a-global-pandemic-
are-about-to-re-start-experiments-on-pathogens-engineered-to-make-them-
mammalian-airborne-transmissible/)

------
DangerousPie
To give some context, this is the guy who is currently at the centre of a
scandal for breaking the law to drive hundreds of miles to his parents during
lockdown, with his wife (who had covid) and child in the car. And didn't even
go directly, but stopped by a local beauty spot on the way back. And now he
has been coming up with flimsy excuses for this for the last few days, which
the government (including the prime minister) desperately parrots lest they
would have to admit that one of their team did something wrong.

~~~
Bantros
What law did he break?

~~~
Cenk
He didn’t technically break a law, but definitely broke very clear government
guidance – “Stay Home“ is about as unambiguous as it gets. Millions of people
took the rules very seriously, missing loved one’s funerals for example, and
he drove 260 miles to his parent’s house and a local castle.

~~~
Bantros
So no law was broken, just guidance... maybe. Depending on interpretation

~~~
Cenk
How else could one interpret “Stay Home“?

~~~
Bantros
Not sure about you, but I certainly don't take a brightly coloured PR slogan
plastered on a Tory government podium as gospel

~~~
DanBC
The guidance from Government needs to read in conjunction with the law because
the guidance describes "reasonable". The guidance was clear: do not leave
home; do not travel to second homes; don't mix households; if you need help
use your local networks.

~~~
Bantros
You've been allowed to leave your home from Day 1 of the lockdown and there is
no law to say otherwise

Edit: Though under reasonable terms, including exercise and food shopping. If
you have only obeying the slogans, which was my point, well that's unfortunate

~~~
DanBC
> You've been allowed to leave your home from Day 1 of the lockdown and there
> is no law to say otherwise

Again, only with reasonable excuse. He didn't have a reasonable excuse. The
law says

[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/ma...](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made)

> 6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they
> are living without reasonable excuse.

It then lists some reasonable excuses. Travelling to a second home is not
listed in the reasonable excuses.

The government guidance is important because it provides context to
"reasonable" \-- it expands the list of reasonable excuses.

The guidance at the time was "You must stay at home", "you must not travel",
"you must not travel to a second home".

The Crown Prosecution Service guidance is important because it curtails police
action. The CPS guidance was similarly clear: travelling to a second home is
unlikely to be reasonable, unless it's someone fleeing domestic abuse.

Police guidance tells us how they would have handled Cummings if they'd
stopped him as he travelled from London to Durham. The police have said that
they'd have turned him back.

Very many people have been fined for doing exactly what Cummings did, and
those fines are not going to be withdrawn.

------
hermitcrab
Dominic Cummings, the highly controversial government to the UK Prime
Minister, has been caught modifying an old blog entry to try and make himself
look cleverer than he is.

~~~
ovi256
>make himself look cleverer than he is

Which is a pity because he's clever enough already. His blog post about
existential threats was good enough, if long winded.

~~~
codeduck
High intelligence, execrable wisdom. Great mage, lousy Cleric or paladin.

------
danmaz74
It's great that tools like the Wayback machine are able to objectively prove
attempts at lying like this one. I'm afraid, though, that the insane level of
polarisation that politics has reached in this day will protect Cummings from
any serious consequences: will his own faction care about this at all?

~~~
hermitcrab
A Minister has just resigned over Cummings-gate:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
politics-52806086](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52806086)

~~~
DangerousPie
That has nothing to do with this story though. The actual scandal is that
Cummings broke the law to drive hundreds of miles to his parents during
lockdown, with his wife (who had covid) and child in the car. And didn't even
go directly, but stopped by a local beauty spot on the way back. And now he
has been coming up with flimsy excuses for this for the last few days.

~~~
Bantros
He didn't break any law

~~~
DanBC
[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/ma...](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made)

> 6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they
> are living without reasonable excuse.

That has to be read in conjunction with the government and crown prosecution
guidance about what reasonable means, and both the Government and the Crown
Prosecutuion Service are very clear: that type of travel was not allowed.

~~~
iso1631
Specifically, if you or anyone in your household had symptoms, you were
_unable to leave your house_ \- including for food and medicine. In any
circumstances you were _unable to go to a second home_. One major reason for
this is to ensure there was no strain on the local services - especially
hospitals. Cummings caused that strain in Durham.

------
sideshowb
I really would have thought he'd know better than this.

Without having researched Cummings in much detail, I certainly don't like the
political causes he has supported but I have vaguely got the impression he
might (despite his history degree) be quite intelligent at managing teams that
make good use of data to drive policy - something which would appeal to the HN
crowd. Does anyone know am I justified in thinking this, or is it all spinning
smoke and mirrors?

~~~
Kliment
It's all spinning mirrors and backroom smoke. Cummings is an accelerationist
whose policy is destroy as much as possible so it can be rebuilt. There is no
indication that he's in any way competent at making good use of data to inform
policy - if anything he's good at finding people who can make data look about
right to justify a policy he already likes.

~~~
random32840
I'm really not convinced he's ideologically driven. I imagine he makes a lot
of money for doing what he does, given his track record.

------
ijustwannatosay
Do they still delete stuff when the site removes access via robots.txt? Others
can look at this example and later when they also need to do "history hacking"
decide to get rid of this problem by removing themselves from the wayback
machine. IMHO, if you are important enough to have a Wikipedia page, what you
say publicly should be immutable.

~~~
dwardu
If the site is hosted and funded using public funds not personal funds, then
yes it should be immutable. Otherwise, he can do what he wants.

~~~
pmachinery
Not if he wants to cite it in an official capacity, as he did here.

------
acqq
Makes me really glad knowing that I donated to Internet Archive (Wayback
machine is a part of it).

Being able to catch lying politicians is really, really good return of
investment:

[https://archive.org/donate/](https://archive.org/donate/)

I really hope Internet Archive manages to keep what it is doing.

~~~
LarvaFX
The Internet Archive is awesome!

------
hedgew
This seems like a hostile interpretation of what he said.

Cummings said he had warned about the dangers of pandemics.

The original archived version of his blog post obviously warns about
pandemics.

Archived version from 2019:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20190331190550/https://dominiccu...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190331190550/https://dominiccummings.com/2019/03/04/the-
most-secure-bio-labs-routinely-make-errors-that-could-cause-a-global-pandemic-
are-about-to-re-start-experiments-on-pathogens-engineered-to-make-them-
mammalian-airborne-transmissible/)

~~~
chimprich
Cummings yesterday said that he'd specifically warned of the threat of
/coronaviruses/ a year previously.

"Last year I wrote about the possible threat of coronaviruses and the urgent
need for planning."

[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-
cummi...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-cummings-
statement-speech-transcript-durham-full-text-read-lockdown-a9531856.html)

~~~
PuffinBlue
And a curious coincidence he made such a modification when he returned from
Durham. Almost as if he knew he'd have to start creating justification for the
trip. A coincidence indeed!

------
samizdis
What has happened to this posting with respect to its HN listing? It was top
of the front page an hour or so ago when I was reading the lively comment
thread. Now, I can't see it on the first five pages; found it only by
searching for "Wayback" filtered to last 24 hours.

Does HN have a "hide" function, or demote to the darkest depths, and, if so,
what triggers it?

~~~
koheripbal
I don't have answer to your question, but it might just be that when you
examine the details here, it just doesn't seem nearly as bad as the title
suggests.

He was indeed warning about pandemics in 2019. ...which is close enough for
me. Looks like he added a tag about coronavirus, but there were cases where he
mentioned prior coronavirus outbreaks, like SARS/MERS/etc...

~~~
samizdis
Yes, I understand that, but my query was purely about the mechanics of HN; I
wasn't commenting on the validity or merit of the article in question. I've
nothing to offer in that direction; disinterest born of overload is all I have
on that.

~~~
koheripbal
I understand that as well. My point was that I don't see anything anomalous
here to think it was treated any differently than any other post.

------
hermitcrab
BBC update:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52808059](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52808059)

------
CommanderData
What a keeper. He'll be promoted soon no doubt.

On top of the existing allegations I don't think this is significant.

~~~
hermitcrab
>What a keeper. He'll be promoted soon no doubt.

He already seems to be running the UK.

>On top of the existing allegations I don't think this is significant.

Given that he is currently being accused of a very relaxed attitude to the
truth, I think it is highly significant.

~~~
frobozz
Given that the PM and most of the cabinet seem to have a similar attitude to
the truth, the only way this can be significant is if enough Tory MPs have
enough spine to back a no confidence motion.

