
Russia blocks ProtonMail - novaRom
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-protonmail/russia-blocks-encrypted-email-service-protonmail-idUSKBN1ZS1K8
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pdimitar
Well, that in my eyes is a very solid advertising in favour of ProtonMail.

And it's not like Russians, Chinese and generally people in countries whose
governments are in the habit of censoring the internet aren't used to using
Tor and/or VPNs to dodge censorship.

~~~
kome
Telegram is blocked in Russia, but WhatsApp still works. Why?

~~~
orthoxerox
Telegram still works as well. It's technically banned, but works thanks to its
blocking countermeasures.

~~~
Nasreddin_Hodja
> It's technically banned, but works thanks to its blocking countermeasures.

Mobile version only. You have to use proxy or VPN for desktop or web app.

~~~
another_kel
You have to use vpn to access the website which contains the web version but
only desktop installer. The app itself works just fine. Futhermore it can be
downloaded from W10 or OSX app store with the only limitation being lack of
autostart.

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Vaslo
"Roskomnadzor said that ProtonMail had refused to provide Russian authorities
with information on the owners of email accounts allegedly associated with
fake bomb threats."

I know ProtonMail is denying they got requests but hopefully this is a good
advertisement for their willingness to protect individuals.

~~~
bnt
And if those bomb threats proved right and people get killed? Would you still
praise Proton for not working with Law enforcement?

~~~
fraktl
I would.

It's not Protonmail who's to be blamed for the potential attack and deaths.
There are series of events that lead to people deciding to be terrorists. I'd
focus on those reasons rather than hotfixing stuff by exposing 99.9% of other
Protonmail users.

I would never opt in to affect 99.9% of users because of 0.01% of users. We
are all educated enough through events in recent history that clearly tell us
how similar use cases lead to abuse, every single time without exception.

Given these constraints, Russia's decision to block Protonmail is perfectly
fine and the only logical outcome.

~~~
tristor
I agree with your reasoning, and I hear this reasoning a lot in the technical
community. I wonder if you evenly apply this to other political issues?
There's an incongruity in how people think about privacy rights in the Western
world and how they think about property rights, especially in relation to
self-defense.

~~~
brightball
It may be painting with a broad brush to assume the inconsistency in views is
among a group of people vs a single individual.

Most individuals who hold a view based on logical principles tend to be
consistent on that application while people who react more emotionally will
tend to flutter in the wind more.

I’d be curious to hear your reasoning.

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yakireev
Many commenters seem to miss the most important point here.

If users from Russia can't access ProtonMail - that's not that much of a deal.
But if mail from ProtonMail stops reaching Russian email addresses - @mail.ru,
@yandex.ru are as common in Russia as @gmail.com - that's a big problem for
ProtonMail and its users.

~~~
ryanisnan
If you're in russia and you're using an email address at a .ru TLD... you're
doing it wrong.

~~~
computerfriend
How many US citizens are using a US-based email provider?

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ryanisnan
The country of business is pretty important, but the point I'm making has less
to do with that and more to do with control over a country's TLD.

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Santosh83
It isn't just Russia. _Every_ major country is increasing surveillance
drastically. As for smaller countries, well they're probably covertly
manipulated by the bigger powers to such an extent that their claim for
privacy is valid only so long as you don't cross one of the big powers.

And if all else fails, it seems outright bans are being increasingly used.

The best way to pushback against this would be if all of us would choose to
deliberately use anonymous services. No govt can afford to ban millions of
people including businesses. But of course that won't happen, so everyone's
privacy is suffering as a result. It is not inconceivable to think of a future
where encryption and Internet access as a whole are regulated and licensed
out. That'd be the death knell of online anonymity, which I suspect was always
just a flash in the pan... it was never going to last when the masses and
their govts got their hands on the technology.

~~~
Andrew_nenakhov
Every country is increasing surveillance, but Russia is one of the few big
economies where authorities don't give a shit about laws, even changing the
Constitution in a few days to keep the dictator in power.

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mayniac
Generally speaking, the type of person who uses ProtonMail is also the type of
person who will trivially bypass this block.

~~~
techntoke
Not really, most people that use ProtonMail "heard" it was safe but aren't
using VPNs daily and would probably struggle to find out how to incorporate it
into their daily routine correctly with split tunneling. The smart people host
their own email, not rely on someone else.

~~~
vcavallo
the smart people live in a plastic oil tank buried under four feet of peat

~~~
logfromblammo
Hang on, I need to call my peat guy, who assured me that one meter was
sufficient. Also, you have to line that tank with shotcrete.

Hosting locations matter when you are buying network-delivered services. Even
if it is trivial to bypass _for the user, this one time,_ jurisdictional risk
to the provider is something that you have to consider as a factor when
comparing competitors and self-host options.

~~~
vcavallo
indeed!

and when a lot of people are talking about 'self-hosting' they're mostly
talking about a VPS they rent from some provider who could vanish just as
easily as Proton can. I'd like to see the numbers on how many self-hosting
evangelists (I don't mean that term pejoratively. I think self-hosting is
great) are actually talking about metal they physically control.

~~~
_jal
I can't tell where you want to draw the line. I personally have a couple
physical servers in a cage. I do not own the data center in which they reside.
Does that count?

If I don't "self-host", then neither does the corp I work for, with hundreds
of machines in other people's DCs...

~~~
vcavallo
My original (sort of absurdist) point was exactly that; saying "here's the
line between 'smart people' and 'non-smart people'" is both pointless and
rude.

Everyone has different threat models and resources.

~~~
_jal
As someone with more than one weird hobby, I'm pretty sure conflating 'smart'
with 'committed to weird hobbies' is a sin weird hobbyists of every stripe
commit.

~~~
vcavallo
Well said :)

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Timpy
I've been considering leaving Gmail for a privacy focused email service but it
seems so difficult to switch. So many accounts and services have my Gmail
registered, I don't think I could collect them all. Can anybody using
ProtonMail (or any other privacy focused email) recommend it? I feel like
choosing an email provider these days is as serious as choosing a bank.

~~~
kuroguro
One "downside" is having to run the local bridge application that proxies /
decrypts your emails if you want a regular desktop client (say thunderbird)
connect to it. Other than that haven't had any problems. Also the android app
is really nice and so is the web client.

Been running gmail and proton side by side for over a year, slowly moving all
accounts and redirecting contacts to my proton address. Really suggest getting
a custom domain so moving providers is as easy as changing MX records in the
future.

~~~
samstave
Same, and also +1 to custom domain.

However - the local bridge has been crashing over the last several days for
unknown reasons.

And, there are many sites which will not recognize @protonmail addresses as
valid when signing up.

I am in the process of weaning off gmail completely - but expect it to take a
lot longer than expected.

Ive already given up chrome completely on desktop - and run brave and ff.

I wish there were a way to just delete my entire online presence and start a
new one.

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gfiorav
I know it's easy to play conspiracy, but after watching this piece [0] on
"active measures", it wouldn't surprise me that FSB finally found a way to
hack proton mail, or the way to circumvent the block will expose some part of
it. Hence this measure.

[0] [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-
meddling-d...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-meddling-
disinformation-fake-news-elections.html)

~~~
thenewnewguy
Why would they block a service they found a way to compromise?

~~~
dariusj18
To draw attention to it and make people think it's the thing to use.

~~~
generalpass
A honeypot for dissidents.

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foxx-boxx
It’s no Russia, but Russian gov’t. Russian population can’t throw this regime
out. This government is a lot like Saudis royal family.

~~~
Noughmad
Russia, unlike Saudi Arabia, is a democracy. They have elections. If the
Russian people wanted to throw the regime out, they would have.

Yes, you could make a good argument about propaganda, freedom of the press,
and the unfortunate things that happen to leaders of opposition to Putin. But
that is all to make the the population doesn't want to throw the regime out,
not that it can't.

~~~
JulianMorrison
An election where the public isn't free to get a real opposition candidate on
the ballot, isn't a real election. Even if the rest of it was remotely free
which it is not, it doesn't matter if you're offered Hobson's choice.

Putin is a dictator.

Russia is a dictatorship.

~~~
konart
And if all of the new edits to the constitution will pass (they will) he will
be call The Supreme Ruler.

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m-p-3
There's still Tor, and they have a hidden service as well

[https://protonirockerxow.onion](https://protonirockerxow.onion)

~~~
techntoke
Will still not work for email providers who servers are located in Russia.

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n4ut
I've never been so proud to be a customer of a service; this is how you know
they're doing something right.

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Lucasoato
> implying people would stop sending bomb threats if Proton mail was blocked

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atatatko
It's a nothing more than advertising of a great privacy service, if
totalitarian states like TerroRussia and China block it.

I'm a happy Premium user.

PS It's funny to hear some accusations about terrorism from our state,
officially supporting terrorism. Yes, I'm Russian if any.

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lug_thro
ProtonMail has also been blocked in the Luhansk and the Donetsk People's
Republic. Few will notice it. The people who live in those unrecognised states
mostly use Yandex Mail, Mail.ru and Gmail.

