
Silence is golden, especially when you need to say something important - rbanffy
https://ubiquity.acm.org/article.cfm?id=3310318
======
hathawsh
This advice is certainly correct for public speaking, but for conversation,
I've observed that saying "uh" and "um" is actually a good habit for most
people. They convey clearly that you intend to speak soon. Without them,
others interrupt or assume you're not listening. It's quite understandable
that people would bring that good habit to a new context where it's
surprisingly counterproductive.

~~~
sfRattan
Maybe it's because I can be 'long winded' and have put effort into curbing
that habit, but I find that the 'uh/uhm/ehm/mmm' interjections can be removed
from conversation as well. I have to put more effort into saying just enough
to communicate an interesting idea and _stop there_. It mostly means thinking
before I speak rather than as I speak... The latter pattern is what results in
rambling on; thinking as you speak rather than before is sort of like speaking
as you would write, but without the editing you would do next.

Part of that idea for conversing without 'uh/uhm' came from employee-to-
employee advice I read somewhere about preparing memos for meetings with Jeff
Bezos at Amazon. It was something along the lines of: have all your facts and
answers ready but don't put everything in the memo; economize the information
you put to paper down to what's essential, so he doesn't waste time reading
more than he needs to and has questions to ask, but make sure you have the
answers ready.

That same advice can be adapted to conversation. Figure out how to communicate
one discrete idea, but don't try to answer every concern/question the listener
might have before they ask about it, even if you have those answers ready or
are thinking about them as you talk. Let the other person speak and engage
with the idea, then answer the questions they do ask. If you come to an
'uh/uhm' point in your own words, the other person probably has a
question/concern/thought already (and it might not be the one you're about to
'uhm' into).

~~~
hathawsh
I agree, and that's why I qualified with "most" people. It takes exceptional
communication skills to reliably command other people's attention without much
effort in casual conversation, unless you use some kind of trick. Uh/um is a
simple tool to help less experienced communicators express their thoughts. I
think of it like a temporary scaffolding on the way to becoming a great
communicator.

~~~
baxtr
How do experienced people do it then?

~~~
rabidrat
Charisma, tension, timing. The professionals are actors, comedians, and
politicians.

~~~
B0btheBuilder
Actors, comedians, and politicians all have memorized scripts, lines,
routines, and soundbites. I'm very curious as to what hathawsh's eventual
answer to baxtr's question will be, because I consider their comment at the
top of this thread to be utterly counterproductive and unhelpful. Oftentimes,
HN threads have a top comment that is contradictory to the post for the sake
of being contradictory. In this case, the comment is both contradictory and
harmful. Literally no one learning or teaching communication says that "uh"
and "um" are good habits. In fact, I would go even further than the article
asserts and claim that I succeed socially the more silent I am. People are
self-absorbed; they like people who listen to them.

~~~
hathawsh
The Wikipedia article on formulaic language (pointed out by another commenter,
thank you!) is helpful here.

"There is strong empirical evidence that speakers use formulaic language in
similar ways across languages and that formulaic language plays a fundamental
role in the structuring of spontaneous speech, as they are used to achieve a
better synchronization between interlocutors by announcing upcoming topic
changes, delays related to planning load or preparedness problems, as well as
speaker's intentions to take/give the floor or to revise/abandon an expression
he/she had already presented."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulaic_language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulaic_language)
(citing a 2007 study)

In conversation, formulaic language can help you seem more relatable to other
people. Think of Indiana Jones, the beloved hero who often used formulaic
language to express himself, as compared with the villains, who barely varied
from perfectly formed sentences. You can see the same pattern in countless
stories because the writers target an audience that feels more comfortable
with people who talk that way.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmkJ0lrCpLQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmkJ0lrCpLQ)

------
BlackLotus89
> Novice speakers employ these unnecessary noises seemingly because they dread
> the "sound of silence." It's as if someone told them public speaking means
> that something must always be coming out of their mouth, at all times, under
> all conditions, no matter what

> The most common justification for all this grunting and groaning is, "I'm
> not always certain of the next thing to say, so I need time to think of it."

It's not a justification as much as it is the unability to explain why they
make those sounds. I myself have problems with public speaking and the problem
is neither that I want to fill the void, because I don't know better, nor is
it that I'm not certain of what I want to say. It is my fight or fly reflex
that makes it hard to concentrate or remember what words I want to use. Even
when I could before quote it backwards. It's condecending how the whole
article says that silence is better than "um". No shit sherlock, if somebody
had told me earlier I could have imrpoved so many of my presentations.

Edit: My wife seems to share the opinion of the author, so maybe I was
unfairly harsh. For me it is a sore subject since I struggle with public
speaking in general.

~~~
jng
Topic 1: novice public speakers make those sounds because they draw their
learning and experience from conversation. In a conversation, you're taking
turns, and doing some noise is the signal that you're not yielding your turn
yet. When speaking in public, at least in the context of a civilized
presentation, you don't need it, because the audience has tacitly agreed to
just listen to you, but your conversational habits are so ingrained that you
still apply them by sheer habit.

Topic 2: the reason you can't concentrate on what you're saying is that a
group paying attention to what you're saying is a threatening situation, and
you are in alert mode, probably adrenaline and other related signals high in
your bloodstream. It's pretty hard to concentrate in your thoughts about
whatever rational topic while you're body is telling you every way it can that
you are in danger. You can't speak well in public until you stop feeling in
danger, and the best way to get there is to do it a lot. Maybe you _are_ in
danger, because a large number of people's judgement of you may be swayed with
just one sentence you said, but you just need to get accustomed to a higher-
stakes game (or drop it, you don't have to, but that's what it is). Source:
developer who's been programming for 30 years and who's done a ton of stand-up
comedy in the last 5. Nothing like that to really become good at public
speaking...

------
cimmanom
This is very different in oratory vs. conversation, especially depending on
the conversation style of the people you're speaking with. In some
conversations, if you don't put in an "uh" or "um" when you pause, you'll
immediately be assumed to be done speaking and will be interrupted.

~~~
js2
Anyone who's just waiting to speak probably isn't actively listening anyway.
Guilty as charged.

------
maxxxxx
That's the first thing you learn at Toastmasters. Saying "um" all the time
just makes you sound insecure whereas silence used strategically exudes
confidence.

I remember some teachers would just stand silently in front of the room until
people were silent. It may have taken a while but then they had control of the
class.

~~~
avmich
To the opposite, I've found often you can't have a meaningful progress until
you start allocating time in your speech with those placeholders. Otherwise
people would assume you're finished with what you wanted to say or don't have
something to add and start talking.

~~~
maxxxxx
Conversation is different but even there you can be much more strategic with
filler sounds.

~~~
scottie_m
In conversation you also have the benefit of being able to effectively use
body language to communicate the delay without resorting to “uhhhh” or other
sounds that make people seem uncertain or dim.

------
bovermyer
This is kind of fascinating.

Filler words and their absence or use is a common topic in public speaking
circles.

This article manages to address this topic in both condescending and overly
verbose ways. I'm sure the author didn't do so intentionally, but...

------
matchagaucho
Google's AI Assistant injects "umms" and "ahhhs" into phone conversions.

Good or bad... that's an impressive detail that makes the AI sound remarkably
human.

------
ChuckMcM
Interesting article and interesting comments here. My personal experience is
that by working to remove the um, and ahs in my presentations I did get more
attentive audiences. For me it was a combination of rehearsing what I was
going to say a bit more (so the conversation had already spooled out a couple
of times from my brain) and being ok with letting the last thing I said just
hang out there. Of course there are good times and bad times for that, I've
heard speakers use cliff hanger statements to engage their audiences.

In general two-way conversation I'm not so sure. Does it make them better?
Does it break them up? That is something that is less certain for me.

------
0xfffafaCrash
The idea that discourse markers are "useless" and meaningless has become
conventional wisdom, but this characterization is considered flawed by those
who actually study their usage[1]. Some roles they play include creating flow
in speech and demonstrating authenticity.

[1] [https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/01/21/discourse-
marke...](https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/01/21/discourse-markers-are-
like-important/Y92NncxhOIiYsDWQHIkdvJ/story.html)

------
nimbius
from the perspective of a blue collar speaker (I'm a master mechanic for a
chain of truck repair shops in the Midwest) I hold a safety meeting once a
week with a similar rule. No weird breaks.

I learned this style of speaking in the Army. Basically in our 15 minute
safety meeting I cover what's happening, why, things that were dangerous, and
what we need to do to be safe. Our upper management sees this style as
confrontational but its extremely effective.

------
hobs
Just so you have a word for automatic speech (um, ah, etc), oftentimes in the
speaking community you hear reference to embolalias, or formulaic language.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulaic_language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulaic_language)

------
kyleblarson
Overuse of 'like' is like nails on a chalkboard to me. You could be the
smartest person in the world but if you use 'like' unnecessarily when speaking
to me I can't help but discredit your points.

~~~
musicale
So, like, if people use speech patterns that you dis-like, then you discredit
their arguments regardless of logic or factual accuracy? Dude, that's like
totally fallacious reasoning. ;-)

------
inopinatus
> The most common justification for all this grunting and groaning is, "I'm
> not always certain of the next thing to say, so I need time to think of it."

I knew someone whose strategy in this situation was simply to speak

with

lots

of space

between

...

each word.

Thereby supplying himself an opportunity to think.

Sadly his fate was the same as unhappy Julius.

~~~
retsibsi
I've noticed a similar, but less extreme strategy that a lot of polished
speakers seem to use: they'll insert large gaps every now and then, but not in
the places you'd expect. Rather than doing it between two different ideas, or
at a point where you'd expect them to need to pause for thought, they'll stop
at a point where the next words are quite obvious. Then when they resume,
they'll ride smoothly through those more natural break points.

In conversation I think this is a way of holding the floor (it's harder to
interrupt someone who is obviously in the middle of a thought or a sentence).
When addressing an audience, perhaps it adds an air of authority -- it enables
you to eliminate obvious pauses for thought, by substituting what feel like
pauses for effect.

------
decebalus1
Reminds me of a scene from Guess who's back
[https://youtu.be/kBqwtHnc9ho?t=79](https://youtu.be/kBqwtHnc9ho?t=79)

------
brlewis
You'll win points if you can put this into practice in daily scrum. Extra
points if the first word out of your mouth isn't "So..."

~~~
waynecochran
"Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver." If only one was allowed to bring
it to scrum meetings...

------
dxbydt
Not saying um & ah allows you to feign complete ignorance. These days that’s a
huge bonus. Especially in academia,I’m finding its best to pretend to be a
complete fool than to say um & expose your cards. If you say um people respond
“Yes do you have something to say? “ Now you are forced to actually speak up &
say what you were really thinking, which in this day & age of excessive PC
especially in academia can get you into tight situations really fast. Its so
much better to say nothing & play dead.

~~~
1000units
You can take this a step further by using um & ah and then explaining your
lunch plans instead of whatever they were talking about.

~~~
PakG1
You'd probably come off as more of an idiot that way. :)

------
maerF0x0
It's funny that we know this about public speaking and yet for some reason my
manager and coworkers think the constant chatter is ok

------
InfinityLoop
Unfortunately, I can't read the article on my phone (characters too small, and
not expandable)

------
eruci
I need to say something important, but I'd rather stay silent.

~~~
rimliu
"Better be silent and let people think you are stupid than open your mouth and
remove all doubts".

~~~
eruci
Done!

------
jng
white

