
A Dumb TV for Consumers - jordanbeiber
https://ironcast.tv/
======
RenRav
>We removed everything that doesn't add to a simple experience; making it
ultra-slim, pure and compatible with your other gadgets.

>The menu and remote has been replaced with the Iron Cast App, where your can
create profiles and settings for any mood and atmosphere. You can choose
between our carefully constructed profiles or simply create your own.

These two things seem at odds, the first thing everyone does is shovel in
their own app.

It's also hard to consider dumb when it requires a smartphone to even use.

~~~
Youden
> It's also hard to consider dumb when it requires a smartphone to even use.

I think that in reality you don't even need to use the app. The TV should be
powered on/off by your AV receiver or Apple TV or whatnot using HDMI-CEC.

~~~
recursive
Here I am, using an old fashioned physical button.

~~~
ScottFree
The way it should be. I once bought a computer monitor with capacitive
"buttons." I'll never make that mistake again.

~~~
jordanbeiber
Again, this remote app only lets you control color profiles. Not sure how
often you do that, but I never touch those settings after initial calibration.
It's been 10 years with my current plasma.

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nickphx
No remote and required installation of a mobile app to control tv? That IS
dumb.

~~~
wodenokoto
I don't think the app is required if you hook up an Apple TV or similar.

~~~
lonelappde
Does Apple TV control brightness and Cable TV?

~~~
jordanbeiber
I use plex, which can be hooked up to cable prividers.

But, I’m probably a target for this product as I have not had or used linear
TV for 20 years.

------
corodra
>Welded by danish design principles.

Looked that little gem up: "Scandinavian design represents a design philosophy
that's characterized by functionality, simplicity, and clean lines."

Functionality and simplicity... that's already what a weld is... it's
extremely functional and simple, melted metal to join metal. Clean lines? As
in a welder who can do their job? I mean... duh? Really feels like someone
saying "atm machine" and trying to make it seem like they art holy than thou.

I really hope they don't understand what "iron" means. Because an iron back
tv... god have mercy on your spine when carrying that shit. Tvs don't have to
double as barricades in case of a shoot out with the cops at your house. Tvs
don't have to be sturdy. They're not gym equipment. You put them somewhere and
they stay there like a glass vase. You look at it, not fondle it. Now, if it
was really a Scandinavian inspired device... made of viking axes that have
tasted blood... or get enough of these and they snap together to make a long
boat. That's Scandinavian. Not "simple and functional clean lines". Bauhaus
pre-dates that and whatever the Japanese call their style of design pre-dates
that even more. Chill, ya' ain't the first. Stop making up silly names to feel
special about your snowflake selves.

No remote... that's the problem with newer tvs that it's "solving"... by
making the same mistake? The fucking remotes are useless and do the "handy
little mobile app" which is always trash. Tactile people. Tactile. Smooth
surfaces suck when it comes to remotes.

One HDMI... and they feel high and mighty for it... fuck you and your Apple
design principles. Along with anything else they stand for. I bet they'll
release a tv stand that costs a grand as well.

Why? Why are people doing this? This is crazy. It's crap like this where I go
"Don't fix global warming, let's burn more coal! Humans need to learn the hard
way of their mistakes."

It's the morning and I already need a drink...

A true dumb tv: no boot time because all it does is take a signal and spit it
out. 3 HDMI ports minimum. Blueray player, a streaming device and game
console. A real fucking remote that fits in my hand comfortably and the
buttons stick out of the plastic so I can feel them and never have to look
down. Extra points if they make one with Cherry MX keys. That'd be cool. Don't
know if it's practical, but I'd definitely give it a try. And the inputs have
separate buttons. None of this cycling crap with just a single "input/source"
key.

~~~
m463
I have to say that lots of TVs are only ever hooked to one input.

Also, having more than one input means you have to provide an interface to
select between sources, which in my experience leads to "grandma, find the
INPUT button" "..er the SOURCE button" "It must be somewhere on the back of
the TV or on the remote"

~~~
corodra
>I have to say that lots of TVs are only ever hooked to one input.

I call bullshit on that. I know most people just use 2, but plenty use 3.
You're using the same argument that Apple used to kill the headphone jack,
that led to other phone manufacturers to follow suit. You don't have data on
it and you're working within your own bias.

------
gandalfian
How about a tv where pressing a number button takes you to that television
channel no matter what state the tv is in. No switching sources or pressing
exit buttons to reach the correct state. Just press a channel button and you
get to tv. Just in case, god forbid, someone actually wants to use one to
watch television on.

(Really iron back? Welded? That sounds incredibly heavy and just why??)

~~~
corodra
I'm thinking they really don't know what the word "iron" means. Or it's some
new hipster phrase that refers to old stuff. I don't know. Because who the
hell thinks a tv made of iron is necessary? The 90s called, they said you're
an idiot because they tried that and are sorry for it.

------
sunstone
Smart TV's cost a lot less than they would if Sony/Phillips/Samsung didn't
resell your personal data they gather when the TV is plugged into the net.

So buy one of these good deals but don't plug it into the the net. Just get a
NUC that you control and use that with one of the 3 or 4 HDMI ports you have.

You get a good deal on the TV, no one is listening to everything that's said
in your living room and with a long range (eg Marathon) mouse you have all the
remote control you need.

------
troydavis
Nice to see someone try to solve this problem!

Wishes: HDR.

A much larger size, like 85” class or whatever size is currently practical to
manufacture.

An open standard for the app/control protocol in case the company goes under.

~~~
jordanbeiber
Agree. I was just happy to finally see someone trying to create a simple
screen, without the smart crap.

Perhaps doing a cheaper entry screen first is a resonable start, but I’d also
like to see something bigger.

------
givinguflac
They say the best speakers are the ones you add but it doesn’t have ARC or
optical... seems like this is only good for people with AV receivers. But
those people obviously don’t prioritize simplicity so I don’t think this makes
sense.

------
jordanbeiber
They seem to have listened to feedback:

\- We embedded the Iron Cast Hub inside the TV, giving the Iron Cast TV 3 HDMI
ports.

\- We updated the specs to reflect HDR, VESA and Embedded Wall Mount.

\- We changed the audio from analog to digital in both TV and Soundbar.

\- Finally, the biggest change, we added our Iron Cast Orb, for our dear fans
of analog control.

I might have to get one just to support this venture.

------
frankydp
I was certain this was a parody site, but after reading the hilarious comments
on HN I am no longer confident.

~~~
corodra
I'm really hoping so. Maybe it's an accidental early April fool's joke.
Testing the site and someone posted it without thinking? If not, bring on
global warming, we humans are never going to learn about useful technology.
Just speed it up and let's get it over with.

Normally when you strip things away, you make things cheaper than the
competition... not hike the price up by an extra $150 from the leading brand
name.

If this tv was dirt cheap, I'd have no issues with it. It makes sense. As
is... no and their air of superiority they have is the real thing everyone is
angry about.

~~~
jen_h
I would absolutely pay extra for a television without an onboard camera and
stealth network connection, yes. It's sad that we should expect to pay extra
for our televisions not to spy on us, but here we are.

We bought one of the last "non-smart" TVs available in the store just a few
years ago and one of my great (arguably ridiculous) regrets is that when we
went on the road this last time, we sold our place furnished, giving up that
beautiful, giant, "dumb" TV to buyers who I'm sure don't appreciate its value.

~~~
corodra
I agree only if you're not buying a streaming device that has a built in mic
that tracks and sends your info anyways.

Look, I'm against the tracking culture we're in. I refuse to get IoT anything
and I don't do the whole home automation crap. But I find it dumb when someone
says "I don't want a TV that has a mic in it and sends my data... Alexa, turn
on my Apple TV and stream Stranger Things from Netflix."

Seriously... A lot of the same people have an Alexa/Google home/whatever. IoT
devices throughout their home. Streaming boxes that only use voice commands.
Yet they complain about smart tvs sending their data... Almost as bad as
making a movie about aliens that die from touching water and they decide to
invade a planet that's 70% covered in water and regularly has water fall from
the sky.

~~~
jen_h
This is such a fatalistic and sad attitude...”Why should I wear clothes
anywhere if my doctor sees me naked?”

Apple, Google, and Amazon encrypt their data in transit, I have an ongoing
customer relationship with them and I keep abreast of their privacy policies.
I’m not happy, but I generally know what they’re doing with my data.

Not so with my flippin’ toaster or my computer monitor. And TV manufacturers
have a very bad reputation when it comes to shipping everything they can get
unencrypted back to home base.

~~~
corodra
They only reason they encrypt the data is so they can be the first ones to
resell the data. They dont want someone to play interference and get the data
for free. It's not for "the customer's safety". I dont care about the
encryption, I dont want them collecting the data in the first place.

~~~
jen_h
But the television’s unencrypted collection is fine?

~~~
corodra
At a certain point, it doesn't matter in a practical aspect. It's like trying
to figure out who gave you syphilis. You already got it. You need to deal with
that first before caring about the "from who". Once the encrypted data is sold
off, it's passed around more than a cheap hooker with VD.

Encryption is just the sedative they give you before they do execution by
lethal injection. There should be no data collection, by anyone. Don't pretend
that "Oh, we encrypt your data that we take from you, for your benefit.
Because we _care_."

They _all_ need to stop collecting data and selling it off. FAANG and more.
All of them. I'm fine with collecting anonymous view count/length of programs.
That technically can benefit the consumer since it helps justify producers on
what shows/movies to fund. Beyond that, there's no reason a single bit of
voice data or transcript should go over the internet. No searches or anything
IDing at all. No matter how secret squirrel they go about it.

------
lonelappde
How is this better than any TV with Chromecast or Apple TV or whatever? What's
the giant metal rectangle underneath for?

What's the point, besides hipsterism?

~~~
Youden
As someone who would buy this TV: the point is that it's not a TV, it's just a
display.

I have external speakers, I never use the speakers in my TV. I have a
streaming device, I never use the streaming features built into my TV. My
streaming devices have their own remote controllers which interact with the TV
using HDMI-CEC, I don't use my TV's remote controller.

All the "features" built into my TV are obstacles that I'm happy to pay to
have removed. Due to the speakers being built in, the TV likes to randomly
switch to those instead of my external ones. The streaming apps lead to the TV
having an entire operating system of its own which causes it to take longer to
power on, longer for me to get to the things I want and more complex to
interact with and configure.

I essentially just want a really big PC monitor. Just give me something that
takes a digital signal in and beams corresponding coloured lights into my
eyeballs.

~~~
csommers
Then get a Vizio.

My P series can be run: with remote, with app, or via the tablet it came with
(also app).

It’s a barebones glorified monitor, but it works great for streaming.

~~~
Youden
Vizio isn't sold in the region of the world I live in and a quick Google tells
me it still has nonsense I don't want built-in, at least the version they're
advertising on their website.

------
kipchak
I like the idea, but I don't think there's any cost savings here compared to a
smart TV due to the lower volume and a relatively low incremental cost of
adding in "smart" hardware and ports and speakers to every tv.

It's tough to say without knowing the exact panel, but looking at the specs
(55", 4k, TFT) something comparable would be around $300-400.

~~~
didgeoridoo
Adding “smart” hardware & software into a TV is _negative_ incremental cost,
because they make a profit selling your viewing information.

Source: I designed a product that helped networks package up and sell ad space
based on this data. I am so not proud of this.

~~~
basch
They track your viewing information from an hdmi source? I would hope most
budget tvs decoding and analyzing the video to determine whats playing.

~~~
c256
Yes, they can. The most pernicious version literally sends compressed
screenshots to their data-harvesting services. Compression can be pretty
aggressive, since they only really want to figure out what you’re watching,
and they have a full database. This process is essentially a hash-table of
screen content; they can use compression on screenshots because that hardware
codec is heavily optimized and quite cheap (witness mobile streaming video
usage).

I have no idea which vendors/models currently do this, but several have been
caught doing it in the wild; it’s not just theoretical. Things like pi-holes
and avoiding ever ‘activating’ your smart tv can help stop it, but if you want
to use the built-in Netflix (etc) app, or look for firmware updates, or use a
built in Roku or similar, then you’re usually either doing something
complicated (routing rules, pi-hole, etc) or giving in to your tv collecting
data on you.

~~~
basch
It would make a lot more sense to send the has database to the device.

If I wanted to block the TV from connecting I'd blacklist the Mac address on
my router, not pihole, and just unlock it to update. If they stored all my
screenshots or hashes forever then I'd lose.

------
igetspam
Neat but I think they went too minimal and a little too modern. More HDMI and
no heavy metal back and I'd be interested. I know that creates an input
switching problem but if they can make an auto switching HDMI hub, they could
put it in the TV. (I've had mixed results here though.)

~~~
jordanbeiber
I guess that’s why the have the hdmi hub as some might want more ports.

I only use the one hdmi with ARC, and have no need for more as I have my
additional ports in my AVP.

------
tyingq
If it's not less expensive than a smart TV, I'll continue buying smart TVs and
just not configuring them. A smart TV makes a perfectly good dumb one. Just
plug my Roku into the HDMI port. Newer Rokus come with tv power/volume
buttons, so I don't touch the TV remote again.

~~~
peatmoss
Is there a substantive difference between something like the cheapo TCL with
integrated Roku and a dumb / unconfigured smart TV with an external Roku?

Genuine question—I mean, is TCL+Roku likely to share different telemetry due
to manufacturer requirements or pricing constraints?

~~~
tyingq
It's probably fine, but then you have to trust both TCL and Roku. I'd rather
just trust Roku. And not just for privacy, but for timely software updates,
spare remotes, etc.

------
collsni
How is it a dumb tv when it requires a App to function?

~~~
jordanbeiber
It's dumb as in no "smart" tracking features or apps built in. It's
essentially a "monitor" or "just a screen".

~~~
zormino
Then why does it need an app?

~~~
jordanbeiber
The app is there so you won’t need an additional remote you’ll never use. It’s
used for color calibration, that’s it. How often do you calibrate your
display?

------
peatmoss
I see so many big, cheap smart TVs on the market, and I feel like there should
be some way to lobotomize the smart features away. Maybe there is some
underground community of smart TV hackers that has just eluded my web
searches.

------
kup0
This doesn't seem like a "dumb tv", but instead the next level of "smart tv"
\- needs an app and other bs- and then only has ONE video input.

How is any of this a good thing?

------
mark_l_watson
I don’t know about needed a phone app. Really, what we cable cutters really
need is just a large computer monitor with HDMI and USB-C interfaces. The plug
in a Fire, Apple TV, etc.

~~~
m463
They could be just giving you a way into settings that HDMI-CEC doesn't define
(does it?)

------
drdeadringer
I am very happy with my media-dedicated computer and my black-and-white
Videosphere TV [jacked into the free digital signal channels with remote
control].

I like to think myself unique, even if I'm not to a degree of a few thousand
or so.

When I get a smartphone, I won't be using it to tune into The Late Night Show.

------
stuaxo
Having to use my distracting phone (and make sure it is charged) just to
change channels is weak.

~~~
jordanbeiber
No channels, only color profiles and brightness. There’s no tuner or apps in
the TV which is why it’s “dumb”. It’s a monitor basically. You hook up your
AV-processor to it and use an apple tv remote or harmony or whatever.

It’s what I do, and why I’ll consider buying this as my 11 year old “dumb”
plasma is starting to experience intermittent issues.

------
AlleyTrotter
Eliminate all the bells and whistles and then pay extra to put them back in.

~~~
corodra
Don't forget it costs extra to have those bells and whistles removed. Looking
at a samsung 55" 4k with hdr normal tv at $429 right now, that I can pick up
at a local store right now.

Yet they want $599 for a kickstarter tv.

~~~
RandomBacon
> samsung 55" 4k with hdr normal tv at $429

Link please?

~~~
phkahler
Drive to your local Walmart.

~~~
RandomBacon
I looked at Walmart's website and didn't see it.

------
yumraj
This is the opposite of a dumb tv.

A dumb tv has a remote and no app.

This TV has no remote but has an app.

~~~
jordanbeiber
It is not a "smart tv", it has no built in tracking features or apps, as
pretty much all other TV's comes bundled with. The remote app is used to
control color profiles and brightness (something one rarely do, after initial
calibration), and there is nothing else to actually control as it is indeed a
plain old monitor.

~~~
yumraj
Ok. Then why not just add a simple remote to do that. What advantage does an
_app_ have for that feature over a simple remote driven UI.

~~~
jordanbeiber
I always have two things on the table: apple remote and my phone. Should I
need to calibrate i have the app handy as opposed to a long gone remote, that
when I find it have no batteries.

This would be the only benefit.

~~~
ThrowawayR2
Unless the app goes out of date and no longer works on current
smartphones/tablets, which does happen. I'd rather have the remote; batteries
are cheap.

~~~
yumraj
Also, most TV remotes seem to follow a standard, and as long as I can get into
the TV UI, I can change settings.

So, even if the TV remote stops working, any kind of universal remote can
help.

------
rkagerer
Like the idea of a dumb TV without a web browser, etc. But this implementation
doesn't appeal to me. Sorry.

------
PopeDotNinja
Saying there's no remote is a marketing gimmick. There's a remote, your phone
plus the app.

------
rasz
>The menu and remote has been replaced with the Iron Cast App

dumb indeed, the consumers that is

------
jkoberg
So, a monitor?

------
atrilumen
Brilliant. I want one.

------
madengr
This thing has so many bad points.

Ditch the app and have a simple remote control, one that can be replaced when
it is lost. This thing will be obsolete as soon as the app is not updated. In
fact, it should ship with 3 remotes.

Two HDMI inputs that are auto switching, and the TV should auto power on and
off, like a monitor. One for the “sanctioned” streaming box (Apple TV, Amazon
Fire), and another for Kodi based hardware.

Buttons on the side to access all functions when the remote is lost.

Might as well be 4K OLED too.

