
Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations - rmason
https://blog.datproject.org/2017/12/20/organization-changes-dat-css/
======
tbv
Hey everyone. I’m part of the Beaker browser team (we use the Dat protocol).
As Max’s colleague, it’s been extremely disappointing to learn about his
behavior, but I’m proud of how the Dat team/community has stepped up in the
last week.

Here’s my statement on the situation and how the Dat community is moving
forward:

[https://taravancil.com/blog/dat-leadership-
changes/](https://taravancil.com/blog/dat-leadership-changes/)

------
evangelista
Hacker News is meant to be a sort of non-political oasis, which I apppreciate
and which helps to greatly improve the quality of discussion and the content.
Their moderation does a wonderful job killing stories where the discussion
devolves into sewer.

Unfortunately, increasingly, politics are bleeding into tech in a way that is
unavoidable and very, very questionable and upsetting.

What deeply concerns me about this particular story is it really looks a case
of a consensual relationship ending under the standard circumstances that
consensual relationships end.

People don’t want to have sex with each other, they start being less civil to
one another. People get angry and break up after personal disputes. Someone
doesn’t do the laundry and dishes as much as they should. Then people fight.

Are those people now “victims” and “abusers?” I am very not ok with this
terminology being used this way.

This is not a good precedent. In the last three months, a friend of mine who I
deeply love was falsely accused of sexist behavior because he nearly had a
nervous breakdown from working with a member of the opposite sex and asked
that she be removed from his project. She then turned around and filed a
harassment complaint with HR when SHE was harassing HIM!

You are not a victim if your relationship ends under standard circumstances. I
am sorry, you are not. That is an expected part of being in a relationship:
People do not get along sometimes.

People should not get thrown out of their projects for this. Wrong, wrong,
wrong.

I read Max’s statement, the tweets sent by his accuser and the community
statement and didn’t see anything to the contrary.

Did he hit her? No. Did he rape her? No. Did he call her names? Didn’t see a
mention of it. Where the police called? No. Restraining order? No. Racism? no.
Sexism? no. Death threats? no.

So where is the beef here?

Just a vague accusation of “sexual controlling.” What the hell does that mean?
He wanted to have sex with his girlfriend more than she felt comfortable with?
That isn’t abuse, sorry. It’s grounds for ending a relationship, sure.

What this is doing is setting a precedent for hyper sensitivity and the
weaponization of #MeToo in tech.

From the available evidence it looks like a standard relationship that didn’t
work out.

Happy to change my opinion if more evidence comes out, right now this looks
like a drive by reputation shooting.

~~~
bendmorris
Not knowing the details, I would say that if both parties _agree_ that
behavior was abusive, it was abusive. There's no reason for anyone else to
second guess at that point.

------
matt4077
Here is the Twitter thread that started this:
[https://twitter.com/jllord/status/941033391750819845](https://twitter.com/jllord/status/941033391750819845)

And here's Max's statement: [https://medium.com/@maxogden/statement-to-the-
community-c835...](https://medium.com/@maxogden/statement-to-the-
community-c8356dbdd392). The first version, which did not include any specific
actions, and to a certain degree engaged in victim blaming, is here:
[https://imgur.com/zbiz1Hi](https://imgur.com/zbiz1Hi)

Note how "pressure and expectations [that were] not sensitive to her needs and
experiences" turned into "sexual abuse, coercion, and controlling behavior".

But, ultimately, Max Ogden seems to have found his way to dealing with these
accusations with something not entirely unlike integrity. Without knowing any
specifics, I can only hope his ex-partner can find some degree of healing in
it, and find a community that will support her.

And, while I feel somewhat dirty including this in such proximity to wishing
his victim well, it is worthy to remember that human lives, and especially
relationships, are often messy. We have all made our fair share of mistakes,
and their magnitude may often have been limited more by circumstances: good
friends stepping in, or sheer luck. It must, and should, be painful to
suddenly be woken up and realise the pain you've caused. But Max seems to be a
rather young guy. And, contrary to popular opinion, it is in no ones' interest
to see his life ruined.

We have created an internet that doesn't forget. Let's see if we can handle
its results. Not by forgetting. But, within reason, by forgiving.

------
fictionfuture
Why do people keep apologizing publicly? Do they actually think that helps?

For all you guys that are interested in a key insight: once dealing w
accusations of abuse the worse response you can have (regarding your personal
career) is to apologize publicly.

Fight or stay silent.

~~~
notl4wy3r
Maybe people are optimizing for considerations other than their career?

~~~
HarryHirsch
The corollary is that integrity is bad for your career.

