

My Ultimate Developer and Power Users Tool List for Mac OS X (2011 Edition) - rograndom
http://carpeaqua.com/2011/12/19/my-ultimate-developer-and-power-users-tool-list-for-mac-os-x-2011-edition-/

======
Pewpewarrows
A decent starter list, but definitely not complete (for me at least). I'd add
the following

* TotalFinder (makes the OS X finder not terrible anymore, tabs, etc)

* HandsOff/LittleSnitch (oh, you're just using the built-in firewall? that's cute.)

* Transmit (everything you could ever want in an FTP app)

* CommandQ (W and Q are way too close together)

* Mou (free alternative to Byword)

* Evernote (note-taking that syncs absolutely everywhere)

* Alfred (modern day Quicksilver)

* Growl (notify me of all the things!)

* AppCleaner (good for finding the random left-behind files)

* ClipMenu (clipboard history and saved text snippets all in one)

* f.lux (less eyestrain for marathon coding sessions)

* GasMask (easy hosts file changing)

* GrabBox (automatically saves screenshots to my DropBox public folder and copies the URL to my clipboard? YES PLEASE. replaces the need for CloudApp, etc.)

* Sublime Text 2 (cross-platform and modern TextMate/BBEdit/Vim all rolled into one amazing editor)

* SourceTree (good and free Git/hg front-end)

* Witch (finally a better Cmd-Tab)

* Moom (window tiling and profiles galore)

* Hyperdock (dock previews and drag-to-edge window resizing)

* Prey (stolen goods tracking)

* Textual (IRC)

* Adium (chats)

In terms of my actual command-line environment:

* iTerm2

* Homebrew

* (way too many individual commands to list here)

Also Chrome/FF extensions can get you some really great paid native app
replacements, like RestConsole (no more need for Http Clients).

~~~
smspence
I love TotalFinder, and also can't live without flux. I don't really
understand the excitement over Alfred/Quicksilver though... what does it do
that spotlight can't? Just activate spotlight by pressing Command+Space, and
type in whatever you want to do (you can launch a program, do a calculation,
look up a word, whatever).

~~~
Groxx
For myself:

With Alfred and a well-tuned Quicksilver, I can:

    
    
      * hotkey it open
      * punch in the minimum to identify the application I want (usually 1 or 2 keys, 3 for rarely-used ones)
      * hit enter
    

and be done with it in _well_ below 1/2 of a second.

With Spotlight, I can:

    
    
      * hotkey it open
      * punch in the minimum to identify the application (over 2x more, almost all the time)
      * wait for it to update
      * it shows the wrong application / the last movie I played and finally displays the 3rd+ letters I typed
      * wait for it to update again
      * double-checking that it's the right application (it frequently isn't)
      * hit enter
      * hope it doesn't update *again*, causing me to launch the wrong application
    

the whole process typically taking >2 seconds nearly all the time, sometimes
5+ if it's a less-used application.

Quicksilver in particular has a nice 'open with...' method which gives you a
couple keystrokes to pick the file, 'ow<tab>' to open with, and a couple
keystrokes to open it in the application of choice, all generally in less than
a second. Alfred might have something similar in the PowerPack (paid), but I
haven't purchased it.

~~~
notJim
Strange, I've never found Spotlight to be that slow or frustrating. I just
tried it again to be sure I wasn't kidding myself, and find that I type about
3 keys, and then there's the app I want by the time I'm finished pressing the
3rd key.

~~~
Groxx
It's speedy for the first few months, but once I build up a few dozen
gigabytes of documents it starts to slow to an absolute crawl. Useful when
searching for documents, absolutely, and faster than alternatives. But
worthless for applications, which I open far more often than the average
document (from a launcher, that is).

But that might be because my .Spotlight folder is > 1 gigabyte. And that's
smaller than it has been in the past - my previous hard drive had it larger
than 2 gb if I remember correctly, because I had tweaked it to index my source
code. On my wife's computer it's only about 400 meg, and it finds applications
in about a second (still much slower than Alfred or Quicksilver).

~~~
duggan
Seems like a simpler alternative here is to disable Spotlight indexing on
everything but Applications and System Preferences. First thing I do on a new
Mac.

~~~
Groxx
Thereby losing all search for and within documents, when faster alternatives
for the most-common action exists? It's a tradeoff I'd never make, but it
makes sense, and then it'd probably be lightning-fast.

~~~
duggan
Makes sense for me, but I don't really have "documents" - not on the
filesystem anyway.

Definitely depends on your usage patterns :)

------
r00fus
One tool that was indispensable for MySQL viewing editing: Sequel Pro [1]. I
found it much more intuitive than Querious and it's free.

[1] <http://www.sequelpro.com/>

------
uggedal
My 11" Macbook Air setup is a bit unconventional:

* Debian Wheezy (I haven't been able to create a customized and focused OS X setup)

* Puppet (For managing the installation and configuration of all the following applications)

* ssh

* zsh (beats bash in my book)

* ufw (best alternative I've found on Linux to BSDs pf)

* tmux (obsoleted screen for me)

* vim

* ack (intelligent recursive file search)

* git

* rsync

* curl

* keychain (stores password decrypted ssh keys in memory)

* awesome (tiling window manager configured in Lua)

* urxvt (running in client-server mode to save resources)

* spotify

* mplayer (for playing videos and audio not streamed from spotify)

* unclutter (hides the mouse after X seconds of inactivity (I rarely use the mouse))

* firefox (with pentadactyl for vim-like browsing)

* chromium (for testing on webkit)

* mupdf (lightweight pdf viewer)

* sxiv (lightweight image viewer)

* rdesktop (if I need to connect to a Windows machine at work)

* rtorrent

Most puppet modules and application configurations can be found here:
<http://github.com/uggedal>

~~~
davidjairala
What kind of battery time do you get? I've been thinking of installing Debian
on my MBA 11" for a while, the only thing holding me back has been battery
time.

~~~
uggedal
My 1.4GHz Core 2 Duo 11" lasts about 4.5 hours with Debian.

------
makmanalp
If Terminal.app feels like plastic scissors, you can try iterm2. It beats the
crap out of Terminal in terms of configurability.

<https://github.com/gnachman/iTerm2>

<http://iterm2.com/>

~~~
super_mario
And it's broken. Screen updates are way slower, and stream redirection plain
doesn't work. Terminal app is pretty good.

~~~
makmanalp
This is odd, for me there is no lag on Lion when I hold down the backspace
key. And what do you mean by stream redirection? That usually means this:

> echo "derp" > foo.txt

That has nothing to do with iterm2 and everything to do with bash or whatever
shell you are using, I think.

Might you be confusing iterm2 with iterm? Iterm2 is a completely separate
piece of software than iterm, it's not the second version of the same one.

~~~
super_mario
I mean things like 2>&1 or 2>/dev/null (redirecting error stream to stdout
etc). This did not work for me last time I tried it. This coupled with
significant lag when scrolling/listing huge dir, typing made me quickly
abandon it. Terminal app does everything I really need and it's fast and
reliable.

~~~
pyre

      > I mean things like 2>&1 or 2>/dev/null
      > (redirecting error stream to stdout etc)
    

These things are usually handled by the shell...

~~~
super_mario
Sure, but if I execute a command like

    
    
        `sudo find / -ctime 0 2>/dev/null` 
    

in both iTerm and Terminal side by side, I would expect them both to print out
the same thing, but that was not the case.

------
ary
Given my personal experience I have to warn people away from HTTP Client. It
is bug-ridden and broken. Many of the UI elements break in weird ways during
normal use. I had to quit and re-run the application _many_ times just to
bring it back to a usable state (only to have it break again immediately).

Spend your money on Rested instead. I don't quite understand the OP's
assertion that "RESTed is a little bit more complex than HTTP Client."
Considering Rested _actually works_ I'd consider it a lot more simple than
HTTP Client.

Edit: To be clear, I am in no way connected with the author of Rested. I'm
just a very satisfied customer.

~~~
JonnieCache
Or just use curl. httpclient is just a wrapper for curl.

------
miles_matthias
In my opinion Mac OS X is already pretty great and I don't need to add very
many things. Focusing on all of the different apps and tools we use seems like
a dangerous rabbit hole.

I recently had to re-install Lion on my MacBook Air - here's what I installed
after: [http://milesmatthias.tumblr.com/post/14366026639/i-re-
instal...](http://milesmatthias.tumblr.com/post/14366026639/i-re-installed-
mac-os-x-lion-a-few-days-ago-and-i)

------
jz
I am genuinely surprised at how much others spend on software. I started
totaling up his list (excluding monthly services like dropbox) and stopped
when I reached $500, which was right around Cornerstone.

~~~
cjensen
You've already sunk money into a Computer. If you pay a little more per year
on software, how much better is your computer? It's a tradeoff which depends
upon how much money you have, and how much utility you will derive.

For example, unlike Windows, there is no free and convenient svn utility on
the Mac. If I were using svn on the Mac frequently, Cornerstone (which is
quite expensive by my standards) would be a necessity.

Twenty years ago, computers cost $5000 and $500 worth of software was no big
deal. Well today, that $500 dollars will buy you just a much a productivity
boost, so why is it no longer worth it? Don't compare the $500 to the price of
your computer; compare it to your already-spent salary plus overhead.

In my view, most of us who love free software have a knee-jerk reaction to
paying money for software. Try spending a little more per year on software and
observe whether or not it improves you life. It did for me.

~~~
tincholio
>For example, unlike Windows, there is no free and convenient svn utility on
the Mac.

What's wrong with doing "brew install svn" ?

~~~
CJefferson
What's wrong with the copy of svn already distributed with Mac OS X? :)

~~~
cjensen
Productivity is much better with a decent GUI like TortoiseSVN. Want to see
the diffs for multiple files you have changed? Just double click each. No
mucking about with command line windows and cutting and pasting filenames or
what have you.

On Windows there is TortoiseSVN which makes svn more efficient. On *nix, I
used the XEmacs module. Of course I know how to use the command line also and
do use it for one-file commits on occasion.

If you are using SVN routinely and do not use a GUI, you are wasting your
time.

~~~
techosaurus
> mucking about with command line

I have never understood this phrase, and I see it a lot from Windows users.
When I use the command line (and I spend ~12 hrs/day on it), there is no
mucking. There's no frustration with it.

I'm honestly asking: what do you mean by mucking about?

------
to3m
If we're making our own lists, here's some that others haven't mentioned:

* Jumpcut - <http://jumpcut.sourceforge.net/> \- simple and unintrusive clipboard history

* dterm - <http://decimus.net/DTerm> \- popup terminal

* bwana - <http://www.bruji.com/bwana/> \- man pages in your browser

* Grand Perspective - <http://grandperspectiv.sourceforge.net/> \- disk usage program

~~~
pavel_lishin
I watched the dterm video, and it looks interesting, but the lack of an
apparent scrollback (as soon as I type a different command, the previous
output is gone) would bug me. (Plus, does it support history, including
search, etc?)

I'm using TotalTerminal - it's not context aware, but it's easier for me to
launch it with Ctrl-` than to open a new virgin terminal whenever I need to do
something really quick.

~~~
evgen
The only real win for dterm is the context-aware factor, but I find it to be a
big-enough win that I keep it around. If you just need a quick virgin window
and are using iterm2 (as you should be) then you can go into Prefs > Keys and
set the global hot key toggle and then select the 'hotkey toggles a dedicated
window with profile' to get a dterm-like overlay window that is a real
terminal session.

------
gatlin
My hardware is a brand new 13" MBA with an old monitor, comfort curve
keyboard, bose notebook speakers, and the magic trackpad.

For software, homebrew and perlbrew are essential. vim and tmux are how I do
everything related to my job.

Adium is for OTR and annoying scripts I've written[1]. Chrome for the being
Chrome. I use dropbox like an addict, too.

I tend to script everything I need with Perl, including mechanized tests and
creating quick REST APIs[2]. Being able to use v5.14 in place of whatever
comes natively is a nice touch.

Homebrew brings in git, tmux, haskell, racket, go, and redis.

Combinations of these tools let me do pretty much what these other lists allow
but I probably haven't had the most elegant experience, either.

[1]:
[http://www.adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=xtras&xtra_id=4187](http://www.adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=xtras&xtra_id=4187)
[2]: <https://metacpan.org/module/Test::WWW::Mechanize>

------
Derbasti
Emacs. 'Nuff said.

Just kidding. Actually MacVim, too.

The current gen i7 MacBook Pro is an insanely great machine.

\- I pretty much can not work without VMWare Fusion.

\- Tower for git, Cornerstone for svn

\- Sparrow, for I want a second mail client beside Mail.app that does not suck

\- TextExpander is pretty useful

\- Pixelmator. It's enough for what I need to do.

\- Reeder, my favourite RSS client

\- The Unarchiver, in case anyone did not know that one

\- Spotify

\- Outbank, for European bank accounts

\- Transmit. Awesome FTP client.

------
8ig8
I appreciate this list, but I do wish the author would have linked to the
software websites instead of to the app store. On the iPad, these app store
links are useless.

(As a side note, why can't these links be a little more intelligent? If they
know I'm using an iPad, why not redirect to a better fallback?)

------
davepeck
Hey neat, my app <https://GetCloak.com/> made it into the list. And we're
still beta -- though v1.0 is coming quite soon.

Fun!

~~~
mtrichardson
I'm using it right now, as is a friend I recommended it to a few minutes ago,
thanks to this post.

~~~
davepeck
Sweet, thanks. I did a "hey, HN, check out my beta" post a few months back.
When we hit 1.0, I'll probably do another. I look forward to your feedback.

------
ernestipark
I would highly endorse Slate (<https://github.com/jigish/slate>), a free, open
source, awesomely configurable window manager for OS X. Also Vimium
(<http://vimium.github.com/>) for browsing the web is incredible. It's made
browsing much faster and more enjoyable. Both were developed by former co-
workers of mine.

------
woebtz
As hard as I try, I can't seem to get used to the prettier Finder
replacements.

Some additions:

    
    
      * MuCommander (Norton Commander-style file manager)
      * ShiftIt (window management/"Aero Snap"/Moom alternative)
      * Isolator (widow focus indicator)
      * SecondBar (menu bar for your second monitor)
      * KeyRemap4Macbook/PCKeyboard Hack (remap keys,  capslock=command, etc.)
      * BetterTouchTool (trackpad gestures, middle click!)

------
maximilian
> _There is absolutely no reason for me to have 16GB of RAM other than to brag
> about the fact that I have such a ridiculous amount of memory._

16GB in a desktop really isn't that ridiculous especially as a developer that
might run VMs. In a non-mac with 4 ram slots, its <$100, which is very
attainable. He is running an iMac with only 2 slots, making the RAM more like
$250, but for a developer, this still isn't that much.

~~~
sirn
All iMacs since late-2009 has four slots[1].

[1]: <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1423#1>

------
peteforde
RCDefaultApp: can't you just set the default app in the info popup for any
filetype?

PDFpenPro: Preview can save your signature and add it to a PDF for you

~~~
r00fus
The Preview signature thing is rather recent, IIRC.

------
chalst
I tried Omni Focus (I was in the beta programme, and I had been using than
Schoonover's Kinkless GTD before, from which Omni Focus derived) and didn't
like it. After some time I discovered Org mode and this works for me.

I think the Org mode journal style just fits the way most people plan much
better than the GTD ramified list approach. You have a file per project or
maintenance domain and you jot down your priorities, interleaving tasks where
they are relevant tasks. Then Org mode's tools put together the lists you need
when you are getting through your tasks. There's no need to internalise a
complex external model, a step that clearly many people fail at when they try
to apply GTD.

More generally, I find that when I started using OSX, I used a lot of the
Apple-esque programs but over the years I've mostly migrated back to software
that runs on Linux. OSX has increasingly become a wacky UNIX with a nice GUI
to me. The superbly integrated Parallels is the only non-bundled software on
OSX that I would really hate to live without.

------
kennywinker
I haven't used Appfigures, because I was turned off by my sales figures being
stored online, but [AppViz 2](<http://www.ideaswarm.com/AppViz2.html>) is a
really great app and I can't recommend it enough. Beautiful graphs, intuitive
app, good customer support. etc. etc. AAA+++ would use for iTunes Connect
stats again.

~~~
xmr
I completely agree, AppViz 2 is an excellent app for checking and storing
sales reports, iAd revenue, customer reviews & app ranks.

------
jmjerlecki
One of my faves on the list: <http://panic.com/~wade/picker/>

Nice time saver

~~~
notJim
Man, I don't get a "developer color picker" that doesn't have a giant box with
the hex color init. Fortunately, there's hex picker:
<http://wafflesoftware.net/hexpicker/>.

Also, here's a script I use that turns color picker into an app:
[http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=2006040805092015...](http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060408050920158).
(But only sort of, it's still one of those weird windows OS X has that you
can't close the normal way.)

------
risratorn
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Charles <http://www.charlesproxy.com/>

------
pnathan
* emacs

* Terminal.app

* SBCL

* DiffMerge

* GitHub.app

* Graphviz

* Chrome, Adium

I have not spent 1 cent on software for my Mac so far. The only software that
tempts me is OmniGraffle, because it really is that good.

I live on the command line and quite often, in open source software.

------
gbrindisi
What I really miss is a good tiling windows manager. I tried many apps out
there, OptimanlLayout been the latest, and I still can't find a nice
productive experience (a la xmonad, scrotwm or awesome).

(I know I can use x11.app but It's freaking unusable)

------
larrik
I was really hoping to see a fix for OS X's mouse acceleration. It's annoying
when using the OS, and completely broken when I fire up StarCraft or something
else that requires fast and precise mouse movements.

(I'm using a Microsoft mouse on a Mac Mini)

~~~
dmnd
This works very well to remove OS X's mouse acceleration:

[http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=194...](http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=194668)

~~~
dorian-graph
I haven't been able to user the Razer drivers for my DeathAdder because of
bizarre behaviour and you may have just shown me the solution, thank you!

------
kittxkat
Very nice list, thanks for sharing!

OT: is LaunchBar/Alfred really that better than Quicksilver? Has been some
time since I last touched a Mac, but I was totally amazed by the magic that
was Quicksilver.

------
JonnieCache
Springy. <http://www.springyarchiver.com/>

An archiver for OS X that actually works the way you expect, by opening a
window to let you look inside and selectively extract from archives, rather
than just spurting files all over the place unbidden like the built in one and
all the other replacement ones seem to do.

For some reason it took me ages to find this when I switched to mac. Drove me
mad.

~~~
falling
The built one doesn't spurt anything: if the archive contains a directory or a
single file it extracts that in place, if it contains a bunch of files it will
create a directory with the archive name and put the files in there. This is
what I want 99% of the time.

~~~
JonnieCache
Yes, but what if I want one file deeply nested inside a massive archive, like
a source tree or something?

In the scenario you describe, I generally use the dtrx script.

<http://brettcsmith.org/2007/dtrx/>

~~~
falling
As I said: 99%. I like default tools to be optimized for the common case,
corner cases are just corner cases – how often are you extracting a single
file from a massive source tree?

------
PStamatiou
I posted a "Stuff i use" comment some time ago:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1881098>

------
krobertson
Don't know if the author of the post knows it is on HN, and his blog doesn't
do comments...

He talks about might wanting a different diff tool than Changes. Might
recommend Kaleidoscope (<http://www.kaleidoscopeapp.com/>). I like it, however
the one thing that I do hate about it is the lack of a directory compare
feature. It can only compare two files together.

~~~
cschmidt
I like Araxis Merge, especially the edit in place feature.

<http://www.araxis.com/merge_mac/index.html>

It does directory comparison. Kaleidoscope seemed pretty, but not as powerful.

~~~
dabeeeenster
£79 for a file merge tool!?!?! I don't really like FileMerge, but that's
crazy. I still can't find a decent free(ish) tool that is better than
FileMerge...Anyone got any other suggestions?

~~~
cschmidt
Yes, it costs money. I've used the Mac version for several years now, and the
windows version for maybe 10 years before that. I think I've had my money's
worth. Given that it works for me better than anything else, the cost is
nothing. I don't mind paying for software that makes my life better.

It has a free 30 day trial, so give it a try and see if it is worth the money.

------
the_cat_kittles
If you want something to help you learn and practice music, there is nothing
quite like Transcribe!. You can adjust speed without changing pitch, change
pitch, multi band eq, highlight and repeat regions, analyze a selection for
the notes occurring in it, etc...
<http://www.seventhstring.com/xscribe/overview.html>

------
pygorex
* Teamviewer. Cross platform remoting: <http://teamviewer.com/> I use it for support sessions and remote pair programming.

* Parallels. VM. Use it primarily for testing web apps in older versions of IE.

* Netbeans. Great search tools (search in files, search for classes, functions).

------
jc4p
I'd love to get a compare/contrast between Cornerstone which the article
mentions and Versions:

<http://versionsapp.com/>

I sadly still have to use SVN for some things and have been using Versions for
quite some time now. What does Cornerstone do that Versions can't do?

~~~
banjomonster
I'd be interested in that too - Versions is great, though not perfect. Looks
like one thing Cornerstone has is a built-in diff tool:
<http://www.zennaware.com/cornerstone/index.php>

~~~
jc4p
That's definitely a plus. I currently use DiffMerge which I really like
because I can use it with absolutely anything, no matter what my source
control is.

------
dataphyte
* calibre - ebook management and conversion

------
thurn
I'm surprised to not see Quicksilver on a list like this. It's definitely the
tool that keeps me coming back to OSX. Most of the "replacements" for it on
other platforms (and on OSX) implement very few of its power-user features.

~~~
smspence
I don't really understand the appeal of Quicksilver. If I want to quickly
launch some random program, I just press Command + Space (activates
spotlight), type in the first two or three letters of the program name, and
press enter. You can also do calculations and look up words in the dictionary.
Isn't this what most people use Quicksilver and Alfred for?

~~~
sirn
Most that still use Quicksilver to today are likely not "most people". The
"object-action-object" command of QS is not something Spotlight is capable of
(e.g. drag files on desktop to trash, open these images in Photoshop, all
without involving a mouse click).

I've quit QS for LaunchBar few years ago (when the author announced the
development for QS has ceased) then Spotlight then Alfred. I think Alfred did
better than Spotlight as a launcher because of slightly better results (e.g.
typing "pho" in my machine list Photo Booth and iPhoto but not the one I want
the most: Photoshop) and few little touches here and there where Spotlight
didn't get it right (e.g. "press enter to copy" for calculations).

I use file actions a lot (move these files, trash this, etc.), so Spotlight is
pretty much out of question.

------
coldflame23
*Window Magnet <http://magnet.crowdcafe.com/>

------
philwelch
DTerm is great for when you want a quick shell prompt but don't want to have
to switch to Terminal.

------
codenerdz
First things I install on a new mac are:

* TotalTerminal -- a quake-like CMD-~ terminal extension

* RightZoom -- CMD-Shift-Q for maximizing the window to current screen

------
rabenfrass
SteerMouse + Logitech mouse of your choice.

------
super_mario
Childish list for people who haven't learned to use the command line.

Boot up Mac, install XCode to get gcc/clang etc, and install MacVim, but you
don't have to, vim is there out of the box. Install perhaps additional tools
like lynx, pgrep, pfind, ncat, ngrep, nmap, wget, seq (some are included in
Lion but I don't use Lion) etc and you got standard UNIX toolchain to build
everything, from "hello world" to world's most complex multi-million line
applications.

~~~
danneu
I'm probably going to buy a MBA soon after working with Debian & Openbox on a
dated netbook for too long.

I spend most of my time in side-by-side Vim/shell/ssh sessions inside tmux
within the Guake terminal.

If MacVim is a standalone app, why do people use it? Isn't one of the nicest
things about Vim that it lives in the terminal and can be launched from any
root in the terminal?

~~~
super_mario
The only good reason to use MacVim is support for millions of colors so color
schemes look nicer. It also supports full screen mode (now in Lion Terminal
does too, but before this used to be a missing feature), also it's easier to
launch MacVim as external editing tool for other apps like Firefox with
Pentadactyl extension (this allows you to edit any text box/area with vim).
Other than that, you really don't need MacVim, unless you are very anal about
colors :D.

~~~
Lio
Using the GUI version of MacVim does give you a couple of other really
important features which no one will be able to do with out....

...a squiggly redline under your spelling mistakes and easy mapping of the
command key for shortcuts. I think you might also be able to do more with
fonts (e.g. italics for comments) too.

On a more serious note, I tend to use both MacVim and iTerm 2 in maximised
windows (not full screen as such) on separate monitors. E.g. iTerm2 on the
laptop, MacVim external.

I could run MacVim in a terminal but I don't get anything from it either. Of
course working remotely is a different matter.

