
Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week - afrcnc
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13252339
======
asdfasgasdgasdg
With all these provisions: if you've decided it would be a good idea to do,
why not do it now? If it's a good idea now, it's going to be twice as good of
an idea in three days. And it's going to be four times as good of an idea in
six. Etc. Over and over again the organs of governments announce decisions
that would be a good idea today that don't come into effect until a few days
from now. Which means that the harm done will be doubled/tripled/... by the
time the rule goes into effect.

I mean I don't like this. I think Japan is great and I'm an American so this
is a little embarassing. But if the Japanese have decided this is good to do,
they should have done it yesterday. The next best time would be today.

(I do wonder if it's not quite a bit too late for restrictions like this to be
effective. Japan already has 1200 cases, and I have heard they have a US-like
approach to testing -- that is, it's shit. Unless they are magically different
from every other country, the disease is already spreading in communities
there. They will ultimately be forced to take the same steps that all other
countries have taken to stop the virus, and that includes controlling the
movements not just of foreign nationals/Americans, but also their own
citizens, into and out of the country.)

~~~
whymauri
>The restriction applies even to Japanese nationals returning from the United
States.

That's probably the answer. Some amount of heads-up is owed to Japanese
nationals. A Taiwanese friend was in a similar situation w.r.t. Taiwan closing
borders. Uncertainty of timeline and parameters can be incredibly disruptive
for citizens trying to travel back to their home country. They might not have
permanent lodging in the U.S. (students, tourists, visiting
scholars/scientists and more).

~~~
gruez
>That's probably the answer. Some amount of heads-up is owed to Japanese
nationals.

Why not ban foreigners immediately, then ban nationals a few days later?

~~~
smnrchrds
Can they ban Japanese citizens from entering the country? It would be against
Charter rights (what people in the US may call constitutional rights) here in
Canada. I would be surprised if it would be different in Japan.

Regardless, if they ban foreigners, it may become a moot point. With not
enough people travelling to and from, flights get cancelled and people get
stranded, unless the government provides evacuation flights.

EDIT: This was the gist of Canada's plea that everyone gets back home while
they can.

> _Airlines have cancelled flights. New restrictions may be imposed with
> little warning. Your travel plans may be severely disrupted and you may be
> forced to remain outside of Canada longer than expected...We recommend that
> Canadian travellers return to Canada via commercial means while they remain
> available._

[https://twitter.com/FP_Champagne/status/1238876190460477442](https://twitter.com/FP_Champagne/status/1238876190460477442)

[https://globalnews.ca/news/6677983/coronavirus-canada-
travel...](https://globalnews.ca/news/6677983/coronavirus-canada-travel-
abroad/)

~~~
woadwarrior01
India did this two weeks ago, with a 48 hour notice and I was quite furious
about it. Closing borders to foreign nationals is one thing, but closing
borders to one’s own citizens is violating a fundamental right. I had my
brother and mother visiting me and had to rush them to the airport and get
them on the next flight back to India to ensure they get back home before the
deadline.

Furthermore, the announcement was made by the minister of health on Twitter
and hours later an undated announcement appeared on their website. As
unprofessional as it gets. Decisions like these are usually made by the
Ministry of external affairs, whose twitter account I was following in
anticipation of something like this.

------
JimTheMan
I mean, I can't speak to how widespread the news is but Australia and NZ have
already closed their borders to all foreigners. Europe has done the same, Peru
etc etc. Should come as no surprise to anyone that Japan has done the same. If
anything it has done it very late in the game.

Majority of the spread for unaffected countries is going to be inbound from
the outside... In Australia, the inbound cases for corona from the US were
like 50% of the total inbound. Which lead me to believe that the US is in more
trouble than the US figures stated given the proportion and lack of testing.

~~~
billfruit
Atlest they didn't close borders to their own citizens, that's what some
countries have done, and I feel is a terrible thing to do, closing doors on
one's own nationals.

------
ridewinter
Not too long ago a headline like this would be absolutely massive news. Now it
barely even registers. Crazy times...

~~~
yurlungur
I wonder if this pandemic will have long lasting effects on international
travel. It seems possible that going into the future stricter health screening
may become routine and certain travel restrictions may stay in place for a
prolonged period of time. Same goes for certain other measures I guess.

~~~
penagwin
As a potential counter point - pandemics are generally rare. And are hard to
test at airports for until it's too late.

Also you can't test for every disease, especially new ones. The best you could
do is a several week quarantine on all incoming travelers I would think?

~~~
artificial
Do you think it's going to be viable moving forward to quarantine as standard
operating procedure?

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
Tourism is incredibly popular and makes up something like 10% of the world
GDP. An outcome that permanently ends international tourism is very unlikely,
especially given the number of previous pandemics that haven't caused that.

------
refurb
Japan is not anywhere close to the first to do this.

Many countries in SE Asia have pretty much banned _any_ foreigner from
entering. If you are a foreign resident, you go into quarantine for 2 weeks.

~~~
paulhodge
The fact that Japan is only banning US travelers, instead of banning all
foreigners, is pretty newsworthy.

~~~
dannyr
Nope. Over 30 countries are banned:
[https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-travel-
restricti...](https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-travel-
restrictions.html)

------
hkmurakami
I looked into additional entry ban countries since other posters here seemed
to wonder about non-US countries.

"As of March 27th

Foreigners who have been in the following countries in the prior 14 days:
Iceland, Ireland, [EDIT]Andorra, Italy, Iran, Estonia, Austria, Netherlands,
San Marino, Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Slovenia, Denmark, Germany, Norway,
Vatican, France, Belgium, Portugal, Malta, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg.

Additionally, Hubei and Zhejiang provinces in China, as well as holders of
passports from these regions.

Also a bunch of regions in South Korea (大邱広域市，慶尚北道の清道郡，慶 山市，安東市，永 川市，漆谷 テ グ
ケイシヨウホクドウ チヨ ンド キヨンサン アン ドン ヨンチヤン チ ルゴク 郡，義城郡，星州郡，軍威郡 ウィソン ソンジユ グンウィ)

And lastly, passengers on the Westerdam cruise ship.

Source: Japan Ministry of Justice --
[http://www.moj.go.jp/content/001316538.pdf](http://www.moj.go.jp/content/001316538.pdf)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I’m a bit surprised they are letting people from China in at all. Wouldn’t a
blanket ban like they are doing with the USA just be easier and more reliable
to implement?

~~~
hkmurakami
My understanding is that new cases of the virus in the coastal cities of China
are quite low, and that they have a heavy handed testing/monitoring system in
place with personal accountability given to the party reps stationed in each
residence complex.

Also, Japan-China will always have trade and geopolitical considerations, for
better or for worse. Lots of Japanese companies have offices and manufacturing
plants in China that they'd like to continue operating as well as they can.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
They’ve shut off zhejiang, which is the richest coastal province and the heavy
weight of trade...not to mention it abuts shanghai. I’m guessing that travel
between japan and China is effectively disabled along with the rest of the
world, given that even if a Chinese wanted to visit japan, they are looking at
a 2 week quarantine on the way back, perhaps also on the way there.

~~~
hkmurakami
Ah good point sorry about that.

You're right about 2 week quarantine when a traveler gets back to China. Also
I believe inter-province travel is quite restricted right now adding to said
difficulty of travel.

------
foobarbecue
Part of 3 Blue 1 Brown's excellent latest video simulates travel restrictions
and suggests they're not very effective:
[https://youtu.be/gxAaO2rsdIs?t=777](https://youtu.be/gxAaO2rsdIs?t=777) .
However, that was only for cutting travel between all communities by a factor
of 4, rather than completely banning travel between two particular communities
/ countries.

~~~
enchiridion
Do you mind giving a tldw on what effective measures look like?

~~~
m3at
Watched it, no surprise regarding effective measures:

\- Good hygiene, especially after going to relatively crowded areas, ex. your
local grocery

\- Reduce the frequency of commute to said areas

\- Social distancing

The video is worth a watch though, I would recommend it if you can spare the
25min.

------
DoofusOfDeath
Anyone know what Japan's policy is regarding U.S. military service members
stationed / on shore leave in Japan?

That seems like a potentially serious back door for covid-19 spread.
Especially given the tight quarters on naval vessels.

~~~
swixmix
"Pacific Fleet orders 14-day gap between port visits for 7th Fleet ships
during coronavirus outbreak" [1]

See PDF file titled "CNFJ Liberty Restrictions effective March 25, 2020".
Looks like liberty is limited to on-base. [2]

[1]: [https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/pacific-fleet-
orders-14...](https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/pacific-fleet-
orders-14-day-gap-between-port-visits-for-7th-fleet-ships-during-coronavirus-
outbreak-1.620641)

[2]:
[https://www.cnic.navy.mil/regions/cnrj.html/](https://www.cnic.navy.mil/regions/cnrj.html/)

------
jdkee
I have been watching the Cuomo NYS briefings for the past two weeks. This is
what leadership looks like. He fucked up early with the "we won't shut down
the economy" bit but has come around. Similarly, Gov. Pritzker of Illinois has
been on top of this, apart from his fuckup of allowing the primary elections
to to go through putting people on top of each other to maintain a regular
election cycle.

Mike DeWine has been the gold standard in kicking the primary election down
the road. Elections should be held by mail-in ballot, I have been doing it in
Illinois since 2004. Why Illinois decided to have a bunch of people crammed
together in the Lincoln Park library last week boggles the mind and will be a
stain on Pritzker's and Illinois otherwise reasoned response to this health
emergency.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
Cuomo is what talking a big talk looks like. Leadership is SK, Taiwan, S'pore,
and yes, even China. Solving problems is leadership. Posturing is something
else, and it's what Cuomo's been doing.

~~~
jdkee
He is responding to the crisis in his state. He is:

1\. Publicly acknowledging the factual state on the ground. 2\. Explaining
what his administration is doing to combat the crisis, including his asks from
the Feds for his foreseeable needs. 3\. Calling up retired healthcare workers
to address a soon to be overtaxed medical situation. 4\. Attempting to prevent
panic as NY state and NYC are the U.S. epicenter of this emergency by calling
in federal resources to address the apex of cases in his jurisdiction.

What counter examples can you cite as a better response to this issue?

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
> What counter examples can you cite as a better response to this issue?

The ones I cited in the comment you replied to. China, Taiwan, Singapore,
South Korea.

Like, I honestly can't think how Cuomo could do worse without actively trying
to. He is observing the situation and doing all the obvious things any right-
thinking person would, if they were totally unable to make any predictions,
had no expert advisers, and were limited to reacting to only a point in time
snapshot of reality.

The only reason he doesn't look like the biggest disaster of governance in the
history of the state is because both the guy above (Trump) and the guy below
(De Blasio) are even more foolish. Anchoring effect at work, nothing more.

Results matter. And the results are that this state already has nearly twice
as many cases per capita as Italy, which is a widely acknowledged catastrophe.
And we're way behind them on implementing lockdown.

~~~
jdkee
Apart from those examples cited:

1\. Are relatively homogeneous populations, unlike say NYC. 2\. Have a long
term behavioural and a culture of wearing masks in public due to pollution and
recent experiences of epidemics such as SARS or MERS. 3\. Are relatively
authoritarian societies unlike the free-wheeling freedoms that U.S. citizens
experience.

Why would you use them as counterexamples to what the U.S. population should
adapt to in short course? It is almost as if you picked the populations that
are accustomed to social controls and regular mask wearing, which is very
effective, and use that as a dig against a novel approach being applied to the
U.S. or indeed the rest of the world outside Asia as being the norm.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
NY will probably end up being the most severely affected by this virus out of
any state/province-level governing region in the entire world. We will cross
3k cases per million residents tonight and growth is still climbing. You are
simply not going to be able to convince me that the guy in charge is doing a
good job, no matter what kind of reasons you bring up r.e. homogeneous
populations or whatever. That's post-hoc rationalization as far as I'm
concerned. Results matter and that's all there is to it.

------
miguelmota
No surprise here; Americans aren't taking as seriously as they should while
Japanese people are very clean and highly protective of their health.
Hopefully people are still allowed to go back to Japan if that's where their
home is and only travel for pleasure or business is banned.

~~~
idlewords
Japanese people are also not taking this very seriously. People in Kyoto and
Tokyo were out in large numbers last weekend, no social distancing measures
visible.

------
yalogin
Doesn’t logic dictate that all international travel time and from all
countries be stopped for a few months?

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
One improvement over a full travel ban would be mandatory government-run
2-week(?) quarantine every time someone arrives from abroad.

~~~
adele11
Australia is now requiring a 2 week hotel isolation

~~~
cyphar
Except the hotel is in the middle of the city, and there are other non-
quarantined residents living in the same hotel who are almost certainly going
to get sick. I think the correct solution is what Vietnam has done -- convert
military barracks into a quarantine centers so that suspected cases cannot
infect the general public.

This is also much better than the self-isolation policy that they had until a
few days ago (because food and other basic services are provided to the
isolated people, so there's no risk of people coming into contact with others
when trying to get groceries delivered).

~~~
axolttl88
Australian here: It’s not a given that the other hotel residents are going to
get sick.

The quarantine residents are bussed in directly from customs / border control
and isolated to separate parts of the hotel.

Their rooms are locked down (they don’t get the key), they don’t get in room
cleaning (they can get their laundry and fresh supplies dropped off / picked
up in a controlled way from outside the room periodically), and they get room
service delivered / picked up outside the room. Staff have/are being trained
in performing those duties.

All paid for by the government, too. It’s not ideal for anyone, but for the
community at large it’s the best possible policy given how many new infections
were coming from inbound travellers.

It also works well for the hotels which have very high vacancy rates due to
lack of tourists.

~~~
cyphar
I'm also Australian. I was referring to the previous decision to put everyone
from the Norwegian Jewel into the Swissotel right in the middle of the Sydney
CBD[1]. The brand-new policy you're referring to was announced only slightly
before I posted my original comment (I wasn't aware of the change at the time
and thus wasn't referring to it).

[1]: [https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-
problems/cor...](https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-
problems/coronavirus-australia-quarantined-cruise-passengers-complain-of-no-
fresh-air-or-sunlight-in-sydney-swissotel/news-
story/6498701f0b5683c1f0eec317e84ba993)

------
tyingq
Seems normal since we are now the epicenter. I welcome it since this sort of
decision might wake up our decision makers on where we really are.

------
gameswithgo
if i was any given country i would have banned entry from all other countries
14 days ago!

airports, shut!

------
hkiely
They have people pulling the emergency button on the subways if someone if
coughing.

------
tinyhouse
I would think the only people traveling to Japan these days are Japanese
people. I wonder if the ban would also include people with Japanese passports.

~~~
brigandish
I was due to fly to and from the UK in April with a ticket purchased months
ago, I won't have been the only one.

------
drpgq
As a Canadian I think there's a pretty strong possibility that we get the
virus under control while it still rages in the US for quite some time. I'm
not really sure what that will mean.

~~~
tenpies
I have seen this mentioned, but I'm honestly now sure why Canadians think
this.

What special measures did Canada take early on? What makes Canada exceptional
compared to the US who at least banned some flights?

The only difference is that the media doesn't absolutely despise Trudeau, but
we're effectively the same. The US is actually surpassing us in testing at
this point and some of our most populous provinces have multiple day backlogs
in their testing. Our population isn't quite all Florida, but Vancouver very
much acted like the Florida of Canada up until just recently. Sure, we can
smugly point to our healthcare system, but our healthcare system hasn't scaled
to anywhere the capacity the US has in regards to testing.

Don't get me wrong, I hope you're right, but I am not sure where the Canadian
smug exceptionalism comes from in this case. From a policy perspective we're
basically the same as the US.

I'm actually kind of worried we'll get it worst here because in January we
were in active denial: "the real pandemic is racism" mode. In February we were
shipping PPE from our own reserves to China to help them out. In March, we
took the "enhanced" screening measure of giving travellers a pamphlet in the
airport. We are so comically behind the curve that our only consolation price
is to look at the worst of the US media for consolation that maybe we won't
have it so bad.

It wasn't until the global markets took a nose dive that Canada really
realized this might actually affect them.

~~~
drstewart
I don't really understand this either. As someone who's in Seattle, it seemed
like BC lagged 2-3 days behind every action taken in Washington (e.g. closing
schools).

I keep seeing Canadians say their response was magnitudes better but I don't
see why.

~~~
hkmurakami
Even if BC lagged Washington by 2-3 days in Earth Time (so to speak), this
likely translates into faster-than-Washington response with respect to where
they were at on the virus incident growth curve.

------
duxup
Seems like a logical decision. Japan has managed to avoid a massive outbreak
so far.

~~~
needle0
Not anymore. Tokyo is already [edit: entered the hockey-stick part of] an
exponential trajectory as of around 5 days ago.

[https://stopcovid19.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/en](https://stopcovid19.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/en)

Every press conference ending with Koike (Tokyo governor) or Abe (PM) babbling
along with no material countermeasures being announced has been making me feel
all the more dreadful. They needed to have already shut down everything long
ago. We will be joining the world's other major outbreak cities in a week or
two.

~~~
cgarrigue
The interesting thing is that like many people, they guessed that a lot of
people would be contaminated during the 3-day weekend a week ago (great
weather, cherry blossoms, and last carefree moments for people who will start
their first job on April 1st). It's not innocent that Abe called for
postponing the Olympics just before that weekend. Koike could have asked the
parks and popular venues (department stores) to be closed a week ago, but
instead only asked people to refrain from going. What was poised to happen
happened, and the number of infected people exploded half a week later.

~~~
avparker
We haven't even seen the numbers from last weekend.

It takes on average 5 days for infected people to show symptoms, and they only
test once you have fever for 3-4 days (I can verify this first-hand), then 1-2
days for the test results to come back. That 9-11 days average.

We will see a spike later this week based on last weekends warm weather and
hanami.

------
vkou
My only question is: "Why hasn't the world done this two weeks ago?"

The US is failing to test on a massive scale, and the outbreak has been
growing exponentially, week after week. Control measures are being taken, but
on an inconsistent, fragmented basis.

~~~
strictnein
The US is currently testing ~100k people each day:

[https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/](https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/)

The failure at the beginning was not to have capacity ready. The huge US
medical system and its very, very large medical industry has finally gotten
pointed in the right direction in regards to testing.

~~~
jdkee
I was tested this past Thursday and came back negative yesterday. Two weeks
ago I was exhibiting the classic symptoms. Last week I had five days of
noticeable shortness of breath, lethargy, sinus infection and a dry cough. I
wanted to get tested a week ago this past Monday but did not meet the
criteria. Now I am awaiting the availability of serological tests to see if I
have the antibodies. I pulled the kids out of school on March 10th, ahead of
our local district closing on March 13, and we have been self-quarantined
since then. If I had the virus, the recent testing would likely not measure me
as a positive case due to low viral expression.

The fact that the U.S. did not have widespread surveillance testing since mid-
January is criminally inept. China bought us eight weeks of ramp-up time which
was bungled by our Executive branch who was more worried about the economy and
stock market reaction than people's lives.

Historically, this will likely go down as the largest failure of public health
management in U.S. since our founding. After this passes, there needs to be
large scale accountability for the CDC, FDA and the Executive branch that has
brought us to the collapse of public health which will likely cost millions of
U.S. lives.

~~~
foobiekr
China bought us eight weeks of ramp up time? Was that before or after
suppressing information about the issue for almost two months including
getting WHO to claim there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission in
January?

~~~
jdkee
Reliance on the WHO is insanity given their kow-towing to Chinese political
pressure. The U.S. intelligence agencies were on this in January.

See [https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/25/coronavirus-worst-
intel...](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/25/coronavirus-worst-intelligence-
failure-us-history-covid-19/)

See also [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-
intellig...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-
reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-
pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html)

We had 56 days (8 weeks) to prepare. To ramp up masks, gowns, ventilators and
possible treatments such as hyrdoxycholorquine/Z-pak as a treatment despite
the lack of double blind peer reviewed data. This is an unmitigated disaster
brought on by a failure of national leadership.

On that note, I am watching Dr. Who "The Talons of Weng-Chiang" on PBS in
self-isolation to distract me from the unfolding horror that is our hospitals.

------
fasteddie31003
Japan has had a low infection rate because of their strong mask-wearing
culture. Western countries are experiencing higher rates of COVID-19
infections compared to Asian countries because of the West's aversion to
wearing masks. Please help me spread this message
[http://www.maskssavelives.org/](http://www.maskssavelives.org/)

~~~
brigandish
I don't know how many times this is going to come up on these page but this is
unsupported by any study for the kind of masks people actually wear and for a
non-clinical setting, and anyone who has spent any time here will know it's
rubbish.

Just last night my wife was telling me about a conversation with her work
colleagues about masks. She wears one per day, one to work and the same one
for the way home - this is already going outside the bounds of any study I've
read. Her colleagues told her that she must be rich to use that many masks,
they use the same one for two or three days in a row.

Just one of the many anecdotes you can hear and confirm with your own
experience if you're ever here. I have others, the ones about coughing and
sneezing behaviour in public will make you shudder.

~~~
chrischen
Even if a mask doesn't protect a person sneezing into your face from
transmitting the virus to you, that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective
otherwise... and hospitals wouldn't be clamoring for them if they were
ineffective ([https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-
would-...](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-would-
hospitals-forbid-physicians-and-nurses-from-wearing-masks/)).

With just a bit of common sense you can reason that masks absolutely do help
prevent the spread of the virus:

1\. A strong mask culture in dense areas means that even _sick_ people will be
incentivized to wear masks, which is known to be effective in limiting
transmission. Studies on airplanes have shown that a sick person wearing a
mask can stop the transmission on a plane.
([https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/))

2\. The mask prevents you from touching your mouth with your hands, and
reminds you to not touch your face.

3\. Many people in Japan wear masks to prevent stuff from their own mouths
going into other peoples' faces, and not for the commonly assumed selfish
reasons for wearing one that Americans keep focusing on.

4\. The effectiveness of masks is not binary. Recommendations against using
masks probably come because

a) people are probably doing other things that are already higher risk than
not wearing a mask and

b) there is a shortage of masks.

Some more tidbits cited from the study: _Less efficient face masks (e.g.,
surgical or medical) also decrease exposure to aerosols of droplet nuclei to a
lesser (8–12 fold) degree than N95 masks (36), and they provide protection
against larger droplets. We did not determine the type of mask worn by the
passengers; presumably, individually acquired masks represented a mixture of
N95 and other less efficient masks._
([https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/))

~~~
brigandish
I'll take this in parts which I always think looks aggressive but I assure you
it's not. We're all concerned and want the best :)

> that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise

It may not be 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective
over the entire period of use.

Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most
people aren't sick.

> 2\. The mask prevents you from touching your mouth with your hands, and
> reminds you to not touch your face.

If you've worn one or watched people on the train in Japan or across Asia
you'll know this isn't true at all. People are forever readjusting it.

> 3\. Many people in Japan wear masks to prevent stuff from their own mouths
> going into other peoples' faces, and not for the commonly assumed selfish
> reasons for wearing one that Americans keep focusing on.

They wear them for many reasons, and they're people so they're just as selfish
as Americans or anyone else, and that's certainly my experience.

4b is certainly true. 4a is partly true because if people aren't going to use
masks correctly - and they don't - then there really is no point to them other
than to deny people access to them by those who really need them, and in
settings that studies really have shown a positive effect.

~~~
chrischen
> > that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise >It may not be
> 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective over the
> entire period of use. Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is
> already known. Most people aren't sick.

I don't see the logical reasoning behind why it _has_ to be effective over the
entire period of use. The whole rational behind curve flattening is that we do
as much as possible to _reduce_ transmission. So being partially effective
will still reduce the number of transmission and the _chances_ of
transmission.

Plus by normalizing mask usage more sick people will be encouraged to use
masks because it is socially acceptable. A lot of people don't use masks even
if they are sick because 1) lack of testing to confirm coronavirus and 2)
embarrassment over using a mask because it is weird. It's easy for someone to
decide to wear a mask or quarantine if they know they have Covid-19, but if
they are just sick or mildly sick, or even asymptomatic, the decision to wear
a mask or quarantine is much harder because they have to balance their other
needs with the chances that they may just have the common cold.

> If you've worn one or watched people on the train in Japan or across Asia
> you'll know this isn't true at all. People are forever readjusting it.

Seeing as how there is a physical barrier over your mouth I don't see how you
cannot use common sense to see that it is true. Not to mention my cited
research study uses it as a potential reason why the masks were shown to be
effective.

> They wear them for many reasons, and they're people so they're just as
> selfish as Americans or anyone else, and that's certainly my experience.

I guess this is a matter of opinion, so I can't really argue that _you_ don't
believe it.

------
mistermann
I have a very bad feeling that Japan is going to be ravaged by this pandemic.

[https://mobile.twitter.com/motokorich/status/124383121986899...](https://mobile.twitter.com/motokorich/status/1243831219868991488)

"Abe: “If an explosive spread of infection is already occurring right now, we
cannot tell immediately. By time we have numbers in 2 weeks time, speed of
rise in number of patients could no longer be controllable.” _Yet he announced
no specific measures to prevent this scenario_."

~~~
mistermann
Downvoters might want to read that full Twitter thread. You may not appreciate
the potential gravity of what I've italicized above, but there are comments in
the thread from people who do.

------
nopinsight
Reconsidered my opinion:

I agree with a reply below. The primary determiner of how well a place
responds to Covid seems to be their experience with SARS, and possibly other
infectious respiratory diseases like TB.

~~~
wonnage
I'm not sure how you came up with this, Singapore and Hong Kong meritocratic?
They're both oligarchies where all the land and influence in the city is owned
by a few powerful families. Also the fact that excluding Vietnam all of these
countries are either islands or have a single land border (don't think a lot
of people are coming into South Korea from North Korea?) probably makes
controlling the disease a lot easier.

------
CivBase
Okay... but why specifically the United States? Shouldn't they ban entry from
just about _every_ nation right now? Did the article just fail to mention
existing travel bans for other nations?

The US has a very high number of confirmed cases, but it still pales in
comparison to many other nations in terms of percent of population. Banning
international travel is a reasonable precaution, but why specifically the US?

I can't help but feel like many politicians around the globe have been
focusing more on political chess first and the wellbeing of their citizens
second.

~~~
dannyr
From [https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-travel-
restricti...](https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-travel-
restrictions.html)

As of March 15, Japan has banned entry to foreign travelers with Chinese
passports issued by Hubei and Zhejiang provinces, as well as those who have
visited regions in China that have been affected by the virus, South Korea,
Iran or Italy within the last 14 days.

On March 18, Japan added two provinces of Switzerland, four states in Spain
and the entire country of Iceland to the list. The ban will become effective
at midnight on March 19.

The government said that starting March 21, travelers from 38 countries would
need to self-quarantine for 14 days in facilities approved by the Japanese
authorities.

Those countries include the 26 members of the European Schengen countries, as
well as Ireland, Andorra, Iran, Britain, Egypt, Cyprus, Croatia, San Marino,
the Vatican, Bulgaria, Monaco and Romania.

~~~
CivBase
Thanks. I wish the article provided that context.

------
brigandish
This would've been a good idea before Chinese New Year for those coming from
China but the Japanese government, in its infinite wisdom, didn't want to miss
out on the money all those tourists bring.

At least they've done well suppressing the true number of cases until the
Olympics was cancelled. Even if it should've been bloody obvious they have
been lying, most of the rest of the world - as per usual - decided that the
Japanese government is trustworthy because Japan football fans take their
rubbish home, or anime, or some other nebulous reason.

~~~
Jommi
Any sources/links indicating that the numbers are VASTLY different than
communicated on the news?

~~~
brigandish
The numbers would surely come out in a study later in the year, if not next
year, as they do for other kinds of cover up here[1][2] or simply because it's
hard to find out as it's happening in such a short time over such a large area
during a pandemic. Personally, I'm basing it on:

\- The propensity for cover ups to happen (even on a small scale, it's part of
the culture of maintaing _wa_ )

\- The strange lack of testing while the Olympics was still a possibility

\- The ease with which deaths could be covered up given the system here and
things like the already mentioned kodokushi deaths

\- The many anecdotes of people being turned away for tests[3]

\- The knowledge that Japan and the Japanese are not special, so their
position as an outlier must have _some_ reason beyond "they wear masks" (how
did wearing masks help in China?) while there are barely any measures to
prevent transmission in place

\- I like Ockham's Razor

[1] [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/kodokushi-in-
agi...](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/kodokushi-in-aging-japan-
thousands-die-alone-and-unnoticed-every-year-their-bodies-often-go-unnoticed-
for-weeks.html)

[2]
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/31/national/crime-...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/31/national/crime-
legal/osaka-police-failed-to-report-81000-crimes-between-2008-and-2012-probe/)

[3]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusJapan/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusJapan/)

