
China Prepares to Drop Microsoft Windows, Blames U.S. Hacking Threat - cpeterso
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2019/05/30/china-prepares-to-drop-microsoft-windows-blames-u-s-hacking-threat/
======
joe_the_user
Quotes article from the Epoch Times, the Falun Gong paper. This may not the
most credible source.

What would "China" dropping Microsoft windows mean? Surely not all Chinese
companies stopping use, since that would be extremely disruptive. More likely
a few ministries starting a program to try Linux.

Not that a scenario where possession of an install disk would be a crime
doesn't appeal to me. The weight of the entire Chinese state might help the
Linux desktop crack 10% usage but suspect I'll have to dream on.

~~~
cm2187
Isn’t the linux desktop mostly a driver problem? If it is the case I would
assume that given the number of chinese manufacturers, China could force them
to release suitable drivers. The linux desktop would reach a critical mass
that would make it hard for non chinese manufacturers to neglect it.

It would require more UI that there currently is. Even for simple things I
often find myself stuck in front of a terminal, looking at the documentation
to figure out how the damn thing works before I can even look for the right
syntax.

~~~
Const-me
It's a clusterfuck of problems:
[https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...](https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html)

~~~
middleload
As a 10 years user of Linux (at home and at work) let me tell you that page is
full of FUD.

It's picking up every issue on Linux and paints it as a disaster.

Then it goes to "I have no idea what I'm talking about" mode with

> There's no concept of drivers in Linux aside from proprietary drivers for
> NVIDIA/AMD GPUs

~~~
Const-me
> It's picking up every issue on Linux and paints it as a disaster.

Every time I tried to use Linux on desktop, I stopped due to a dozen of issues
from that list.

> There's no concept of drivers in Linux

In Windows ecosystem, you buy hardware, plug it in, install drivers, and it
works. On modern Windows, often they downloaded automatically by Windows, and
start without reboots.

I think the OP meant that Linux can't offer comparable UX. The drivers are
compiled into the kernel.

On the source level, this is due to the lack of the ABI.

~~~
VvR-Ox
You must have some bad luck.

There is plenty of great Desktop Environments nowadays that can easily compete
with the UX you are used to from Windows (KDE Plasma, Gnome 3, Deepin,...).

Most things just work out of the box even without installing drivers. Yes
there is still some problems (e.g. Laptop WiFi / old or exotic hardware) but I
stumbled upon them in Windows and OSX as well.

Every OS has issues but I prefer Linux for everything besides graphics and
working on PDF because most of the times I find a solution I can implement
myself without much hassle. OSX on the other side is very closed in comparison
but I don't bother because Photoshop and Acrobat run just fine and I don't
need much more.

Windows is just spyware, a security threat to people with free minds. I
totally welcome China to switch to Linux and probably this will bring our
world to a path towards more free software (very ironically because the US
always tries to appear as the "Sheriff of the free world").

~~~
pizza234
The average user is not the average HN user; the latter can solve the minor
issues they stumble upon, but not the former.

Would you buy a car where "most things work", if you had no mechanical skills?

I'm a hardcore Linux user, but even with that, I don't advocate it unless I
know exactly the platform a given user is going to work on.

There are surely issues on any system, but in Windows/Mac there is the
expectation of everything working out of the box, since there is more of a
"package" ("box") culture.

In this sense, projects like the Dell XPS are certainly big steps forward (and
even the XPS has at least one significant issue out of the box).

~~~
VvR-Ox
You are basically right but for me this is a bit different.

My family and friends like to come to me with their IT problems and it's
easier for me to solve them if they use Linux.

The big problems with Mac/Windows can in many cases also not be solved by me,
easily (e.g. Driver for XYZ doesn't work - on Windows this means searching
another EXE that could work but if it doesn't you can exchange the device in
question because my Latin is exhausted at that point).

Sure there is problems with every system - it just depends on what you do and
how you use computers what problems are the most concerning ones I think.

------
Koffiepoeder
> The irony of a nation state oft-associated with cyber-attacks on Western
> targets, both in the business and government spheres, blaming the U.S.
> hacking capability for the need to develop a custom OS is not lost on me.

What irony? I thought that by this point it was clear that nations all over
the world are hacking each other; it doesn't seem that far-fetched to try and
protect your nation from that. Whether that should be through a new custom
built OS is a different ball of wax.

~~~
mathw
I wouldn't have said it's irony, it's a response to the US banning Huawei and
the other shots fired in Trump's war on global trade.

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puranjay
It's very clear that the next 30 years will be very different from the last 30
years. I doubt we'll ever come back to the same era of global trade anytime
soon.

~~~
westpfelia
I feel like were entering the 3rd phase of the cold war. Except now instead of
political ideology guiding our hate/intentions its just hate.

~~~
petre
Or we were too relaxed during the 2nd phase, until Russia annexed Crimea, Iran
kept sponsoring their terrorist organisations, China started building military
bases in the South China Sea to intimidate its neighbours and it's general
secretary went on to hint at annexing Tawian by force. I'm not surprised that
the current US administration is taking action against China. This should have
started in 2014.

~~~
manderley
Meanwhile, the US was entirely passive, didn't operate bases anywhere and
didn't invade anything. Totally relaxed.

~~~
ionised
And definitely didn't station its own or NATO military forces and
installations on the border with Russia and in Turkey in direct contravention
of agreements with Russia.

No sir, they definitely didn't do that before Russia countered by doing the
same.

Nope. We have always been at war with Eurasia. Move along citizen.

~~~
petre
My country used to have a direct border with the USSR. We'd much rather have
NATO defensive instalations and troops on our territory, rather than Russian
tanks and little green men with guns. The last time that happened we had 50
years of communism, the USSR took away several parts of our territory,
effectively plundered our country's resources and invaded neighbouring
countries in order to "restore order".

~~~
ionised
That's great, but it's irrelevant.

They broke an agreement by doing this, then condemned Russia for reacting in
the same way.

It's simple hypocrisy.

------
mlang23
Russia prepares to drop Windows as well:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_Linux](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_Linux)

------
xvector
Can’t tell if this is an effort by the PRC to push even more invasive spyware
on citizens.

~~~
HenryBemis
I think this is just a positive side-effect for PRC (which is miles away from
a "PR").

China is playing the exact same card that USA does. Microsoft (willingly or
not) have been playing ball with the 3-letter-agencies (3LA) to keep
vulnerabilities secret and to the 3LA's advantage. If USA is going to 'cry
wolf' on Huawei, then it is fair game that RPC will 'cry wolf' on Microsoft
(and/or Cisco, and/or Oracle, and/or pick-your-own-company).

~~~
ztratar
Let's not forget that China has blocked access to its market for US Technology
companies for the last 10 years.

This is not China playing the same card. This is China playing aggressively,
as they have been.

It's a smart strategy, don't get me wrong, but let's not claim the US as the
initiators of these market-distorting actions.

~~~
close04
For most normal people it doesn’t matter who initiated it. Neither of the 2
parties have much credibility. Between the NSA hacking revelations and the way
China cracks down on its own people it doesn’t feel like anyone would take
either side from a moral standpoint.

Oh, states will take sides out of interest: interest to make money, to get
protection, to not become enemy via the “with me or against me ideology”. But
not for any moral reason.

------
sabas123
From reading the article it seems it won't be a linux distribution. I also
wonder if this will hit the consumer market or if it will just be a
replacement for within the military.

Either way it will be interesting to see if they succeed in making it more
secure considering that they don't have technical debt to worry about.

------
Bucephalus355
The real hacking threat is all those unlicensed copies of Microsoft Windows
that never get updated + the fact of just how insecure Windows was until
recently / somewhat remains + the 2x turnover lifetime of pc’s there vs here.

------
deadalus
[https://finance.yahoo.com/news/yes-chinese-piracy-lost-
micro...](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/yes-chinese-piracy-lost-
microsoft-123104842.html)

~~~
tonyedgecombe
My first thought was will Microsoft even notice. If I look at my own business
the only orders I get from China are from outposts of Western corporations.
Software piracy is rampant there.

------
blauditore
I wonder how they want to achieve this. It's not trivial to just re-build
Windows or Linux from scratch, but from the article it sounds like that's
exactly want they're planning to do.

Even with enough time, such a project requires highly skilled workers, and
those are the ones that could also find good opportunities in the private
sector (potentially outside China) with likely better compensation and less
pressure. So I doubt they will find the best people for this job.

~~~
sabas123
If this will be a flagship project of the goverment I suspect they won't have
a problem attracting talent. Also I wouldn't be suprised if they would dump
money on top talent

~~~
cm2187
And Google seems to be able to pull it (Fushia). The only real objection I can
think of is how you convince hardware manufacturers _en masse_ to write 4-6
drivers when they only needed to write 1-3 before.

~~~
enitihas
Well, since a large number of hardware manufacturers are based in China, I
think it won't be much of a problem for the PRC.

------
qcts33
If this is true, it is acturally a good thing for us who live in China.
Currently, a lot of chinese websites, especially for goverment websits, are
using outdated even non-standard technologies.It is really a pain in the ass
if you are a Mac or Linux user.

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xxxpupugo
The Great Divergence, they called it.

Computing as itself is getting more interesting than I would expect it.

------
notaboutdave
They'll bang it out in a week without a hitch. Just like every sizable
migration.

------
NetDot
Sounds like China is going to have a silent logistical nightmare. When going
through the airport I noticed they were using Vista and windows app, going to
take a while to port the rest of it over to their linux distro.

------
thefounder
I can't blame them but it would be great if they would use or just fork (and
maintain) an open source linux/unix distro.

All US services/closed systems present a national security threat to sovereign
states.

~~~
devoply
All networking gear and computing systems used for sensitive purposes need to
be produced locally by each country. Or if they are going to be developed
together then they need to be based on common open source components that are
very well audited. That's the only sane approach to all of this. It's obvious
that computing systems and networks can be used to steal data from and spy on
all sorts of commercial and non-commercial matters and that matters a lot in
negotiations between even friendly countries.

What all of these countries should be doing is organizing these sorts of open
source frameworks for developing future tech because it's obvious that it can
be done that way and that individual countries are incapable of producing
these goods on their own in various corrupt authoritarian sorts of
governments.

~~~
theredbox
Oh wow so should be food, fuel and other stuff. Then we can call it a day and
start a WW3.

We are at peace because we depend on each other.

~~~
cordellwren
Except self-sufficiency in critical industries like food and fuel ARE prime
examples of things that any sane country fights tooth and nail for even today.
The US has been pushing for increased rice exports to South Korea and Japan
for decades now, but they've always pushed back successfully with the argument
that protecting their agricultural industry is a matter of national security.
This is from two countries that literally depend on the US for their military
defense, and are among the closest allies the US could ever hope to have.

------
akerro
Russia is doing the same!

------
karl_schlagenfu
Looks like 2019 will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop.

------
StreamBright
China is going to come out of this trade war stronger than ever.

~~~
jraby3
Disagree. Think both the US and China will come out weaker.

~~~
majia
Hopefully not. A healthy competition is better than Microsoft monopoly. If
China could spend billions of dollars on an open OS and make it compatible
with major windows applications, it would be better for everyone. This is
challenging because it involves huge amount engineering and testing effort,
and Microsoft/US is likely to use restrictive patent/technical standards to
contain it. But China is probably the only one with the ability and
willingness to make it happen.

------
Nursie
So this trade war thing was a really good idea then?

We block Huawei, they ditch MS. Intel and AMD must be looking into risk and
contingencies about now too...

~~~
tty2300
I wonder if this will smash up the tech monopolies and encourage local
innovation.

------
sandGorgon
there are fairly good China-specific Linux distros (that comply with chinese
regulations) . Like Ubuntu Kylin -
[http://www.ubuntukylin.com/](http://www.ubuntukylin.com/) and Debian Deepin -
[https://www.deepin.org/en/](https://www.deepin.org/en/)

~~~
em3rgent0rdr
But according to the article: "This latest report suggests that any Linux
variation would not meet the standards of the secure by design brief from the
ISILG."

~~~
A2017U1
Get the feeling Linux is a bit too "secure" for them.

~~~
cdmckay
That doesn’t make any sense. They could make it as insecure as they wanted
without having to write a brand new OS.

~~~
A2017U1
I'm not following? You'd still need a government sanctioned distro.

Simply downloading Debian from a valid mirror isn't the same.

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tcper
China's home-grown OS is more insecure, corruptionist officer will do this.

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ptah
Hopefully it's linux based and open source so I can give it a spin

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jamisteven
This article is pretty old.

