
How the 2021 Ford F-150's onboard generator works - hirundo
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a32970167/f-150-generator-pro-power-onboard/
======
Waterluvian
I’m positively in love with this romantic idea that my vehicle isn’t really
just about A to B. It’s my aircraft carrier from which I launch operations.

It keeps us warm or cold. Powers everything. Has entertainment. Shelter.
Carries all my supplies. Having a small SUV in the parking lot of the beach
turns my morning trip into a whole day trip with my toddlers napping and
taking a break in the shade.

It’s what gets me about the supercarriers. If warfare suddenly disappeared,
you’ve got these mobile bases you can anchor off the coast of a disaster zone
with massive capabilities for logistics, a nuclear power plant, water
purifier, hospital, machine shops, etc. Etc.

So this F150 power generator thing resonates with me.

~~~
masklinn
If you want a base of operation, a SUV is not what you're looking for. An
expedition vehicle is. That's literally what they're built and set up for.

A "supercarrier" would be a lorry-sized one e.g. a monster like an
EX70-HDQ[0]. A smaller BOO would be something like a maximog or a rally
vehicle. There are also conversions for SUV-size chassis replacing the entire
back half.

[0] [https://www.unicat.net/en/info/EX70HDQ-
MANTGA6x6.php](https://www.unicat.net/en/info/EX70HDQ-MANTGA6x6.php)

~~~
SigmundA
Or for a lot less money just get a motorhome.

My 32' Winnebago sleeps me, wife, kids and dogs has a 4000w generator and
3000w inverter which runs off two golf cart batteries charged by shore,
generator, alternator and 300w of solar.

It has 80 gallons of gas, 70 gallons of water, air conditioning, and giant
awning and tons of storage. I carry just about all my tools.

It even has a built in desk in the passenger side dash which I can work remote
from using the hotspot / router with external antenna.

I driven cross country multiple times towing my Jeep and taken it pretty far
off the grid. Its not an off-road vehicle but you would be surprised.

There are a lot of choices in between mine and a Unicat as well, like a 4x4
Class B or Super C. Some of them are starting to do large 48v secondary
alternators with lithium banks and no generator while still being able to run
the A/C for up to 8 hours before recharging.

~~~
paulmd
Coach motorhomes are kind of an idiot trap. You're better off with a tow
vehicle and fifth wheel. The mileage is better, and you can unhitch and run
day trips without having to lift your jacks and unplug everything every single
day, then come home and do it all over again every single day. A lot of people
end up dragging a car behind their motorhome as a result, when you could just
do a fifth wheel and a truck instead and end up with a much easier rig to
manage.

The sprinter type campervan setups are a little more practical but obviously
trade for space.

~~~
Johnny555
I have no need for a pickup, so I'm better served by a 25 foot RV than an 18
foot truck plus a 25 foot fifth wheel. Plus I'd have to find parking for 2
vehicles that don't fit in my garage, while with the RV I need just one space.

It's debatable whether the truck+trailer is easier to manage than the RV +
small car. Though since we tend to take the RV to state parks and such where
we don't need to drive after we park, we rarely take the car.

~~~
msisk6
Everyone has different needs, but having owned pretty much every type of RV
available, I'd say a truck with a fifth-wheel is _much_ easier to mange than a
coach with a flat-tow car.

A fifth-wheel is easy to backup when needed. A coach with a flat-tow car
attached can't back up at all.

And as long as you have enough truck for the size fifth-wheel you have they
tow much better in wind and handle curvy roads well.

~~~
Johnny555
While it's true that you can't back up with a towed vehicle, the advantage of
the RV is that you don't have to -- only takes a few minutes to pull the pins
and free the car and generally when I'm towing the car, I want to use it, so
I'm going to unhook it anyway when I park, may as well unhook it before I back
in the space (especially since I typically want to back in all the way and put
the car in front)

But as you say, different use cases for different people - if you already have
or want a truck (or other tow vehicle), a towed RV makes a lot more sense. But
I don't want a daily driver that's large enough to be a tow vehicle and it
makes no sense to buy a tow vehicle that's only used for towing.

------
Someone1234
I've been saying for years that vehicles, in general, aren't keeping up with
new electrical demands placed upon their 12 volt battery systems. Safety
systems, LTE connections, HUDs, charging, even literal built in fridges and
vacuums.

For example my 2016 vehicle, left undriven, will completely drain the battery
after just two weeks thanks to a timed flush and an always on LTE connection.
Plus it refuses to run the alternator on any road slower than 35 MpH, even if
the battery is almost depleted. Even while idle at a traffic light, it would
rather just waste the energy than charge the battery.

So this sounds fantastic, I'm just glad they're thinking about electrical
power AT ALL.

> The generator system is completely separated from the rest of the vehicle's
> electrical system, adding a layer of safety and ensuring that any Pro Power
> system problems will not impact the drivability of the truck.

This is a double edge sword though. While obviously you don't want your tools
draining your starter battery, it also means that any issue with your starter
battery cannot be immediately resolved by the two additional 12-volts you
already have (at least without tools to physically move them).

Essentially you could get left stranded, even while having a completely
working 24-volt system. So while the goal is admirable, being able to jump the
vehicle from 24-volt would have been a function I would have wanted.

~~~
aidenn0
Manufacturers have wanted to move to a 24V (or higher) system for at least a
decade. They just haven't agreed on how to do it. Jump-starts work because
everyone is on 12V, and while there are various solutions to that, there just
hasn't been a convergence on a single solution yet.

~~~
bob1029
Jump starts have always been a crappy approach IMO. I think a small hand-
cranked generator into a decently-sized supercapacitor could be a much better
way to kick over a motor. I feel like you could get a reasonable jump start
with just a minute or so of cranking. Certainly faster than waiting for
someone to find their jumper cables or drive out to assist you.

Keep in mind that this is already sort of a thing for cars with manual
transmissions. In this case, the proposed supercapacitor is replaced by the
kinetic energy you are pushing into the car.

~~~
oh_sigh
According to a google an average car might take ~9000 joules to start. Also
according to google, an average hand crank only puts out about 15 watts. So
you might be cranking for at least 10 minutes.

If you could convert gravitational potential energy into charged battery
energy at 50% efficiency, you would need to raise something weighing 2000 lbs
to a height of 6'6". Your own car maybe? You could have tripod legs that
deploy from the side of your car, allowing you to winch it up that amount, and
then to start it you just drop the car.

~~~
mauvehaus
You've really only got to fire one plug one time to start a car that's in a
fundamentally startable condition. A battery that doesn't have enough juice to
turn a starter motor (which requires a _lot_ of amps) often still has more
than enough to fire the plugs if you can turn the engine over some other way.

Several times in my life I've had to roll-start a (manual) car with some
regularity[0]. You don't have to getting it going to even a brisk walking pace
if it's a small (< 2 liter) four cylinder engine. If you clutch out and back
in pretty quickly, it'll start if it'll fire. If the battery is too dead to
run the ECU and/or plugs, you're pretty well dicked unless you can find
somebody to jump you.

Now, neither of these applies to an F-150, since you can't get one with either
a manual or a four-banger, but practical experience indicates that for at
least some cars, it's got to take less than 9000 joules to start the engine.

In rough numbers, if you have a 1500 kg car moving 1 m/sec, you've only got
750 joules to work with. In all cases, I wasn't trying to do this in the dead
of winter.

[0] On 2 different cars:

1) I left the headlights on two days in a row and discharged the battery
pretty deeply. I got it back after a couple days of driving my short commute.

2) I had an intermittently bad connection between the battery lug and the wire
running to the starter motor. I finally figured it out after it did it at
night and I could see the sparks with the hood open. That was after 2 or 3
months of bump-starting the car at least once a week :-)

~~~
chrisrogers
4-cyl engines are easy enough to start with a hand crank off the crankshaft.
Standard starting procedure for a long time, really. My first car had one, and
it was made in 1963.

Won't work on the hulking mammoth engines of a modern F-150, but maybe a step
down ratio maybe 1:4 (and a bicycle) and it could work.

------
rkagerer
That sounds handy!

After I got my license as a teenager my first vehicle was an old Ford cargo
van. I installed a 1200W inverter and an extra battery, through a low voltage
disconnect to avoid accidentally draining the main car battery. Designed a
bracket for it, carefully cut out all the metal bits with a cutoff disc on a
cheap tablesaw, took it to a local autoshop and begged them to spot weld it
together for me. Got home and realized it was assembled backwards (d'oh!).
More work with the tablesaw and some bolts. Went a little overkill on wire
gauge the size of my thumb to connect it all (it was fun to fish that under
the rockers).

It worked great - I could easily run handtools like hammer drills (this was
before they came with batteries) and even managed to power that tablesaw.
Toward the end of highschool we built a bunch of theatre sets in the parking
lot running off it.

Girls got a kick out of making hot chocolate while we were out in the country
stargazing, and loved being able to plug in a hairdryer.

As the van got older and crankier, it was handy being able to flip on the
second battery to give it some extra starting juice on cold winter mornings
(-35°C).

I did wear out an alternator prematurely but the replacement one lasted the
remaining life of the vehicle.

I wasn't planning to buy a new truck but this feature could actually draw me
in.

------
bob1029
You could run an entire house off this thing for a non-trivial amount of time.
7.2 Kw is plenty of power to crank over my 5 ton heat pump and whatever other
relatively insignificant things I might be running at the same time.

I would say Ford should develop some emergency home power kit, but all you
would really need to do is have a transfer switch and a panel installed for
accepting the 220v plug. None of that is proprietary and could be installed by
any licensed electrician.

~~~
nabilhat
Duty cycle isn't mentioned. I'm assuming 7.2Kw would be peak output rather
than continuous until Ford says otherwise.

~~~
bob1029
It isn't mentioned but even 80% of that power would be enough to continuously
run even the largest residential heat pump after its various rotors come up to
speed. You just need a few hundred milliseconds of face melting power to
overcome the locked-rotor amperage.

The way this is being marketed leads me to believe they have engineered it for
fairly extreme use cases. Specifically, the mention of air compressors (i.e. a
heavy reactive load) gives me confidence that this can handle other similar
devices.

~~~
nabilhat
Yeah, the air compressor got my attention too, but a little 1.5hp pump isn't a
big deal. Surely no one's going to plug in their old full size piston pump and
try to keep up with a plasma cutter and a die grinder, right?

I do expect the duty cycle's going to end up on the high end of the scale for
consumer level generators if it's on Ford's warranty liability. 80% would be
awesome, anything under 60% is going to be a headache for everyone.

~~~
jandrese
> Surely no one's going to plug in their old full size piston pump and try to
> keep up with a plasma cutter and a die grinder, right?

Ford is advertising that you can literally do this on the 7.2kW version. It
remains to be seen if the marketing folks are talking out of their ass or not.

------
david38
What I really want is for Tesla to partner with someone to come out with a
line of DC-plugin tools so I can plug my tools into the new Tesla truck
without the conversion penalty.

Battery operated tools are DC already. They just need a plug to charge and run
at the same time. An optional AC adapter too.

~~~
augustt
Yea but tools usually aren't run at 400V. Still going to have some efficiency
losses when you buck it down.

~~~
cestith
A 10:1 transformer would work wonders. Lots of lawn equipment is 40v or 80v.
That's less efficiency losses than charging a smaller battery and running off
of that.

~~~
bob1029
Transformers only work with alternating current. You would be better off using
a direct buck-boost conversion scheme, rather than
DC->inverter->xformer->rectifier->DC.

~~~
cestith
I was assuming you'd already have an inverter for 120v AC. Wouldn't it be less
loss to convert at 400v, step that down to both other voltages, and convert
back to DC at 40v than to have a buck convertor for 40v and an inverter for
120v separately? Of course then you'd draw fewer amps to just go ahead and
plug 120v tools in and not convert back.

If you're just skipping the NEMA wall outlet and going to 40v DC that's
different. You might want too go with a non-isolated switched mode there for
efficiency. Still, an inverter above 20kHz and transformer at high frequency
in an RCC or resonant forward configuration shouldn't have terrible losses and
the transformers at high frequencies can be small and multiple for different
output voltages if necessary.

I think the design goals regarding space, weight, cost, flexibility, and
reliability really come into play here.

About that buck convertor... I'm just a hobbyist when it comes to power
supplies but since a buck convertor tends to use semiconductors I'm thinking a
400v input might be an unusual design. The highest input voltage rating I find
for a "high voltage" DC buck convertor is around 140 volts. If you tap the
battery a quarter of the way through you could do that, but then you're
loading that portion of the cells more than the rest. I can find 700 volt "AC
bucks", but there again you're talking AC power. Everything I can find that
bills itself as a 400v capable down-stepping DC to DC buck convertor has an
isolated portion labelled, which means it in fact has at least a 1:1
transformer somewhere connected to the buck. If you're talking about flipping
mechanical relays quickly instead of transistors and diodes, you're going to
have a lot of noise, slop, and reliability issues aren't you?

------
jdhn
I'm surprised they expect the take rate for the hybrids to only be 17%. I'm
wondering if they're publishing a lower number than they really expect.

As an aside, I'm really excited for this truck, not because I want one (I
don't), but it's a nice, easy way for truck customers to be eased into the
idea that hybrid, and eventually all electric trucks can be a viable
alternative to ICE trucks. I've said it here before and I'll say it again,
once hybrid/BEV trucks outsell pure ICE trucks, that's how you know that
electric vehicles are seen as a "mainstream" thing.

~~~
munificent
Keep in mind that a large fraction (majority?) of Ford trucks are work trucks.
They aren't purchased because consumers have a particularly strong emotional
connection to them. If they tick the right boxes and make the job easier, they
get bought.

Putting a generator on it is such an obviously good idea I'm now surprised
they didn't do this decades ago.

~~~
gregmac
Yeah, this is going to be a major selling factor for a whole bunch of on-site
service industry companies (carpenters, framers, roofers, electricians,
plumbers, welders, etc).

Even a 2.5kw generator is pretty big: 2'x1.5'x1.5', weighing 80-100lbs. This
takes up a significant chunk of space in the back of a pickup truck, plus
requires two people to load/unload if necessary. Having power so conveniently
available is pretty compelling, especially if it doesn't mean giving up 1/6 of
your bed space, and only having the (I assume) significantly quieter truck
engine as noise.

------
the_hoser
I wonder if these things will trickle into their super duty lineup. I know a
bunch of RVers that would love to be able to ditch their generator.

~~~
josefresco
F-250 and 32 foot travel trailer owner here: Yes please.

~~~
wesleytodd
Just recently bought a 2020 F-250 and a 40ft fifth wheel, also yes! I spent
~$1000 on the generator setup for 5kw. That said, they are probably much more
fuel efficient than running the 6.7L diesel.

~~~
nnadams
Ford steering engineer here. I worked on the 2020 Super Duty line. How has the
experience with your truck been so far?

Did you opt for any of the trailer assistance features? Trailer Backup Assist
was something I worked a lot on, and I would be interested to hear your
thoughts.

------
fasteddie31003
I installed a 2.2 kw inverter on my truck. It's the best $300 upgrade I've
done. The alternator has no problem keeping up. I use an induction cooktop off
the tailgate when camping or doing a long road trip. You don't need to buy a
new truck to get this.

~~~
hedora
That is great to know. Thanks! Currently, my main use case for my generator is
running a 240V well pump that knocks 5000W honda generators over. (PG&E has
taken > 2 years to run a wire ten feed and install a meter, for ... reasons)

Future me will likely have use for a “mere” 2.2KW generator though, and I’m
really sick of lugging a > 200lb generator around.

------
davidf560
The built-in generator options don't output any more power than a generator
that you can buy at any home improvement store for several hundred dollars.
Sure, having it integrated into the vehicle might be a nice feature, but I
don't see anything special about the power output.

This just replaces a free-standing generator strapped down in the back of the
truck. Those tend to be noisy but they're relatively cheap. I doubt most
jobsites care that much about the noise, but I suppose tailgaters might like
it. On the other hand, tailgaters tend to prefer inverter generators which are
very quiet and use very little gas.

In fact, thinking more about it, I wouldn't want to be at a tailgate with an
F150 running all day spewing exhaust all over. A small portable generator and
an extension cord can be located relatively far away from the gathering -
that's a lot harder to do with the truck itself.

~~~
caymanjim
The article mentions most of these points and provides some compelling reasons
why one might prefer an integrated system. I'd certainly rather have one
powered by the truck's engine. It's vastly more fuel-efficient, quieter, and
vastly more environmentally-sound than a loud-ass 2-stroke portable generator
could ever hope to be, and if you're the kind of working person who'd benefit
from this, it's a godsend.

~~~
syshum
>>vastly more environmentally-sound than a loud-ass 2-stroke portable
generator

Agree with your points, however it is clear you have never used a Honda
portable...

~~~
CydeWeys
The truck has ~$1k worth of emissions scrubbers in its exhaust, maybe more.
You're not going to beat that performance with a portable generator. The Honda
generator doesn't even have a catalytic converter.

~~~
hedora
Yeah, but the scrubbers don’t help CO2, which is the most important pollutant
these days.

The hybrid truck could run an inverter off battery (in theory), and cycle the
engine on and off. A dirt cheap generator (Predator 8750 from harbor freight)
runs 8–12 hours on ~5 gallons (the spec sheet doesn’t give tank capacity)

How many gallons per hour does an idle truck burn?

------
protomyth
_Ford says the 2.4-kW system can run a jackhammer or a mobile theater setup
complete with a projector, loudspeakers, and popcorn machine for up to 85
hours._

This is the one sentence that basically shows the two audiences this truck is
going after. I know a couple of farmers who will be glad to ditch the
generator. Might even save some effort given they won't have to bring two
trucks out (one with the generator, one with the load).

~~~
readhn
Who else buys pick up trucks?

~~~
ajmurmann
Is there a good explanation why pick up trucks are so popular in the US, but
no in Europe? Coming from Europe I've always wondered this and only ever have
gotten reasons that would be valid in Europe as well. Uses cases of farmers
and construction workers should be largely identical. Yet in Europe these get
covered by tractors and vans. For farmers I wonder if the larger areas in the
US make the difference.

~~~
rootusrootus
> Is there a good explanation why pick up trucks are so popular in the US, but
> no in Europe?

Because they are the most versatile vehicle on the road, if you are not
constrained artificially by narrow roads and heavily taxed fuel.

~~~
Bud
Let's remember that it's actually _cheap_ fuel that has its price maintained
"artificially", and not the other way round.

~~~
rootusrootus
More than half the retail price at the pump in much of western Europe is tax.
If you take the base price of the fuel in both Europe and the US, exclude
taxes, then the price isn't actually all that far apart.

------
netcraft
this seems like a great idea, especially on the models with the battery packs
- you could charge on the way to the jobsite.

My only wonder though, is where you plug in the electronics at the back of the
truck bed is exactly where the exhaust is coming out. Seems like they could
have at least moved it to a panel outside of the bed on side maybe, but a
redirected exhaust would be a good upgrade I would think. Not so bad if youre
running a long extension cord to some other place, but if youre trying to use
the tailgate as a work surface, seems like that would get old quick.

~~~
tantalor
It looks like the plugs are on the left side of the bed, and the exhaust is
angled to the right:

[https://www.ford.com/content/dam/vdm_ford/live/en_us/ford/na...](https://www.ford.com/content/dam/vdm_ford/live/en_us/ford/nameplate/f-150/2021/collections/_360/iconicsilver/p702_ext_360_iconic_silver_0440.jpg)

------
rudedogg
The 600 watt Electric Heater listed under "Football Tailgating" is a little
suspicious. Don't they all pull 1,500 watts on max output?

Makes me question all the other numbers for equipment I know nothing about.

Edit: I looked and apparently they do make 600 watt space heaters. I'm leaving
the comment because I still think it's a bad example.

~~~
ccsnags
I can make you a 1 watt space heater for your hamster if you want.

I see you edited it but the image in my head was too cute not to share.

~~~
a_t48
I wonder - could you just get another hamster and have it heat the first
hamster? How many watts of body heat does a hamster radiate?

~~~
bob1029
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock#Chicken_power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock#Chicken_power)

------
pdonis
GM has offered pickup trucks with this capability for many years now:

[https://www.fleetowner.com/news/article/21670162/gm-
unveils-...](https://www.fleetowner.com/news/article/21670162/gm-unveils-
hybrid-contractor-pickup)

~~~
undersuit
[https://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/23/gm-discontinues-the-
para...](https://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/23/gm-discontinues-the-parallel-
hybrid-silverado-and-sierra-trucks/)

From 2004-2007?

~~~
pdonis
For the original hybrid that I worked on, yes, apparently so. See my other
post downthread.

------
ponker
I hope the truck keeps a record of how much this was used. I wouldn't want to
buy a used truck that nominally had 50,000 miles on it but also had another
5000 hours of generator duty on the engine without knowing about it.

~~~
latchkey
After I moved to Vietnam, I learned pretty quickly that the numbers on ODO's,
even digital ones, can be modified to whatever you want, for a few bucks.

~~~
jedmeyers
US has very strictly enforced laws against odometer tampering.

"Major defendants in large odometer fraud prosecutions have received prison
terms of up to seven years under current Sentencing Guidelines which do not
permit parole. Sentences in the 18 month to three year range are common."
[https://www.justice.gov/civil/case/federal-odometer-
tamperin...](https://www.justice.gov/civil/case/federal-odometer-tampering-
statutes#:~:text=Major%20defendants%20in%20large%20odometer,three%20year%20range%20are%20common).

~~~
fnord77
given the number of odometer eeprom hacking tools sold on Ebay, it must be
fairly widespread

~~~
jedmeyers
No one says it's not easy. Stealing mail is fairly easy too. Federal prison is
not a fun place to be, though.

------
mschuster91
Ford did the same thing a friend of mine a decade ago did with his Volkswagen
T4 van - put a separate high-voltage generator on the belt (or on a dedicated
power take-off at the gearbox) and a decent solid-state switching regulator
behind it.

tl;dr: They took an old concept popular with car modders for ages, elevated it
to mass production and will probably make well-deserved bank with construction
workers.

------
dghughes
Dodge Cummins diesel trucks used to have a generator option. I believe the
power outlet was a panel located between the driver's door and rear wheel. I'm
not sure of the year but I think it was early 1980s and it was probably just
an expensive option not standard.

edit: I see the Cummins diesel engines for Dodge trucks wasn't available until
1989.

------
ilamont
_hybrid trucks get upgraded to 2.4 kW or, optionally, a massive 7.2 kW of
power, made possible by the hybrid 's 48-volt lithium-ion battery pack._

Would other hybrids be able to have a similar feature? Even a Prius or Ford
Escape?

~~~
serpix
a 2009 Chevy volt already has a 2kW DC inverter, so they beat Ford by 11
years.

~~~
p1mrx
You're referring to the DC-DC converter, which powers/recharges the 12 volt
system. You need to add a 12V->120V inverter to use the Volt as a generator.

This is possible on most hybrid/electric vehicles, e.g.
[https://pmarks.net/konapower](https://pmarks.net/konapower)

------
ChuckMcM
I read about this in the blurb Ford sent us (we own an F250 for towing a
trailer) and felt it was a pretty smart move. When we go camping we will take
a generator to cover loads larger than the onboard batteries can deal with. If
this becomes an option in the F250 I could see us getting it on the next
truck.

One of the benefits that is sort of mentioned is running lawn tools from it.
This could be a real benefit for small gardening shops that replace their
tools with battery/electric tools. Not are they lower maintenance but they are
quieter as well so the neighbors are not as annoyed.

------
danans
There is nothing in that article about the generator's efficiency. I'd like to
know how it compares to an equivalent portable gas generator that gets about
4-6 kWh/gal.

~~~
kawfey
It depends on the fuel capacity. The article says

>That mobile [7.2kW] welding shop can run for 32 hours continuously on a full
tank, making all-day, heavy-duty work possible.

F-150 has a few capacity options. Per a 2019 tech sheet[0], 23gal standard,
26gal on SuperCab or SuperCrew, and 36gal for extended range.

7.2kW for 32 hours is 230.4 kWh. Therefore it's either 10.0, 8.9, or 6.4
kWh/gal.

I would expect the efficiency to be a lot better than a two- or four-stroke
portable generator, since the engine design is overall vastly superior.

The caveat is the 7.2kW system is only on the hybrid model, which presumably
drains the hybrid battery before switching to generator power, which would
imply there's a 7.2kW generator under the hood, which isn't even an option for
the non-hybrid model...needless to say I think these are marketing wank
numbers and probably have a big but associated with them.

[0]
[https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America...](https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/product/2019/f-150/2019-F-150.pdf)

~~~
danans
> 7.2kW for 32 hours is 230.4 kWh.

I'd guess 7.2kW is the peak, not the continuous load it is capable of. At
least that's usually how generators are marketed, by their peak load
capability.

------
ckdarby
This is an important feature to have in place before cybertruck.

------
bochoh
So if my friend has one of these I can charge my Tesla on the L14-30R 240V 30A
while sitting in a campsite or far off grid. Amazing if it is actually capable
of that.

~~~
js2
This is why I bought a Chevy Volt instead of waiting for a Model 3. I wanted
the fuel flexibility.

------
Havoc
Happy for the construction workers.

Less happy about the other 90% that will be running their gas guzzlers for
hours on end beyond normal to power their camping lights or whatever.

------
dreamcompiler
This is a wonderful idea. I've been using a 1500W inverter on my two-battery
diesel truck but even 1500W is not quite enough for a lot of jobs.

------
csours
It's not exactly comparable in this context, but 7.2 kW is 9.6 horsepower. 9.6
horsepower is barely above idle for a truck engine.

------
nikanj
I find it ludicrous that people use an aircraft carrier to do their daily
commute. The freeway is packed to the gills with massive trucks, most of them
taking a single white-collar worker to their comfy office job.

~~~
dimitrios1
I'm sorry you have such strong feelings of resentment towards people's
decisions on how they wish to pursue life, liberty and happiness, but it's one
of the many consequences in living in a democratic and diverse society. People
will value different things. I am sure there is something you find enjoyable
that another finds ludicrous. Try to be a little more understanding!

~~~
throwawaygh
I might be more inclined to have this attitude if gas were $10+/gal and roads
were always paid for at time of use.

But this particular life choice has massive, civilization-changing
externalities that aren't priced in, and is then additionally subsidized on
top of that.

Over a 200 year window starting in 1900 or so, the personal vehicle is
probably one of the two or three most destructive developments.

NB: Not being critical of anyone's personal choice, but of the market/system
that enables those choices by failing to properly price carbon and road infra.
In particular, I've been known to drive my SUV to work.

~~~
centimeter
Road damage disproportionately comes from freight vehicles, not consumer
vehicles. If anyone is benefiting from uninternalized road damage subsidies,
it’s people in cities who need to truck in all their food and stuff.

As far as pollution externalities go, you may be right, but actual level-
headed analysis of the dollar cost of global warming are tough to describe as
“civilization-changing”. Certainly I think the externalities of my own vehicle
usage are worth it, and I would be happy to pay those costs if they were
internalized correctly (but good luck not turning that into a pork-barrel
monstrosity).

~~~
throwawaygh
_> Road damage disproportionately comes from freight vehicles, not consumer
vehicles._

Yes, but we need substantially wider roads and more roads when cars are a
primary commuting method. It's often the case that trucking is simultaneously
the largest source of wear and not the largest contributor to road budgets.

 _> it’s people in cities who need to truck in all their food and stuff._

How are rural areas any different?

Those peaches from the Walmart in northern WI were probably grown in the exact
same Georgian fields as the peaches from the corner store in Chicago. For
manufactured goods made in $asian_country, trucking stuff out to Montana from
the coast is going to cause a lot more road damage than hauling it from a
barge to some store in the bay area.

The amount of road wear&tear probably correlates more with your distance from
the major ports than urban/rural. That can go either way.

Unless you live in Iowa and your diet consists mainly of corn and ethanol and
you furnish your home with Amish furniture^1, you're benefiting from trucking
routes at least as much as anyone in "the city".

There are very few "self-sufficient" communities in the USA. The closest you
get .

[^1]: This is a joke :)

------
tyingq
Basically the new version of a mechanical "PTO" (Power take off) that's common
in tractors and big trucks.

~~~
EamonnMR
Let's start calling this ePTO and see if it catches on.

~~~
tyingq
Maybe that's what you meant, but it's apparently a thing. I was not aware.
[https://utilityfleetprofessional.com/departments/technology/...](https://utilityfleetprofessional.com/departments/technology/the-
rise-of-epto-systems-for-utility-trucks)

------
winrid
The cool part of this is the market research. It's also how Dodge made the Ram
popular - they walked around construction site parking lots and found many of
the trucks had custom storage bins and cup holders rigged up in the cabin. So
storage space in the vehicle was a major feature in the new Ram in the 90s.

------
sambe
I wonder if ~10% of current F-150 sales are hybrids, or if they are really
projecting for this model. I'd think people would consider going hybrid for
the increased power outlet capacity, which could substantially alter the sales
vs previous generations.

------
leecarraher
I like the idea, and have always been displeased by the lame underpowered
inverters they often put in autos. That said, a compact, quiet 2.5kw inverting
generator that weighs about 50lbs will only set you back about $300. Hopefully
the addon is comparably priced.

~~~
hedora
A loud 7000 watt (8750 peak) generator runs about $600:

[https://www.harborfreight.com/8750-watt-max-starting-gas-
pow...](https://www.harborfreight.com/8750-watt-max-starting-gas-powered-
generator-carb-63087.html)

However, it weighs over 200lbs, and is really noisy.

It runs 9 hours at idle. I wonder how long the ford will run at low wattages,
and how the gallons per hour compares between the two. (Presumably the hybrid
truck does much better at low wattage than the generator or the conventional
truck).

~~~
djrogers
> I wonder how long the ford will run at low wattages,

Per the article, ~85 hours

~~~
hedora
I didn’t catch that detail. It’s only for the hybrid, but it is really
impressive!

------
mycall
I've been thinking how to convert my fuel intake so I can siphon petrol out of
it and into a mini-generator, for camping. Only problem is the generator
itself and fuel smelling up the car.

------
forgotmypw17
[http://archive.is/jtoFL](http://archive.is/jtoFL)

For anyone else having trouble accessing the page.

------
umvi
Here's my million dollar car idea:

Digital maintenance logs

Seriously, how useful would that be? A simple onboard SQLite database (or even
text file) you can add stuff to via a phone app. That way, when someone asks
"when was the last time this car had an oil change?" you can simply check the
logs. You can check when your wiper blades were last replaced, etc. If it's
standard enough, Jiffy Lube can update it with whatever work they did.

For now I just settle for a paper logbook in the glove compartment...

~~~
jakemoshenko
Seems really annoying to have to define that standard and keep the schemas up
to date vs. just having the same thing behind an API in the cloud.

~~~
umvi
Well if you have it behind an API in the cloud, how is it going to be
transferred when you sell the car? Having it in the car means it's guaranteed
to follow the car regardless of who owns it or where it is located.

------
btbuildem
When I read the title, I thought it was an electric truck with an onboard
generator to recharge the batteries.

This is pretty cool too.

------
senthil_rajasek
So this is encouraging burning more fossil fuel to power a mini-fridge when
you tailgate.

This is how Ford responds to climate crisis!

Damn these fools.

~~~
post_break
One has strict emission regulations. The other is whatever goes just be quiet.
I’ll take the truck generator over the tailgate generator any day.

~~~
smileysteve
Running a 400hp motor to generate 4hp (3kw) is definitely not remotely the
correct fit.

------
throwaway0a5e
I'm most looking forward to that set of plugs and bezel being available at
junkyards in ~10yr.

------
VBprogrammer
Using a 200hp (or whatever it is) engine to power a 7kw generator is unlikely
to be particularly efficient. That would be better suited to an engine in the
15hp range.

Fine for occasional use but you'd be better with a real generator if it was
regularly required. Also, for bonus points the power doesn't go out when
someone needs to go pickup an extra sheet of ply.

~~~
castratikron
Would imagine the hybrid inverter is going to be more fuel efficient since it
only needs to run to charge the battery.

And to your second point, they'll just have to buy two Ford trucks!

------
cptskippy
Wonder if this could be used as a road-side service vehicle to help stranded
EVs...

~~~
p1mrx
Many EVs can handle up to 7.68 kW (32A) at 240V. The F150 has a 7.2kW (30A)
option, which is pretty close to that, although an L14-30R connector isn't
supposed to exceed 24A (5.76 kW) for continuous loads. That's still >20 miles
of range per hour for a typical EV.

------
chrissnell
Still, who wants their truck idling at a tailgate, puffing out exhaust fumes
while everyone is crowded around the back? Yes, it's better than a generator
but it's still exhaust.

------
GekkePrutser
For HN I expected a bit more technical details instead of what's basically an
informercial :)

~~~
jandrese
I was disappointed too. I was hoping to see some detail on how they keep the
two batteries balanced and if you could still jump 12v cars by only connecting
one battery. Instead the details were all vague and mostly taken from Ford's
whitesheet.

~~~
sokoloff
For the amount of power needed for a jump, I'd have no issues at all jumping a
car from a single battery.

I worked as a SWE intern one summer for Daimler (Mercedes) and we were doing
some testing one day where we drew the batteries down on our 24V bus that we
were working on. My boss was skeptical of my idea that we use both of the 12V
support cars we had to jump the 24V bus. I eventually prevailed and we jumped
the bus without incident.

------
munificent
_> F-150s with conventional non-hybrid drivetrains get a 2.0-kW system_

That's two whole Mac Pros!

------
baybal2
This is a very innovative idea. I wonder who was the person behind it?

------
tmh79
Some 100+ comments on here and no mention of the horrible impact having more
of these giant trucks around is going to have on the climate. This is
technically interesting, but experience shows us that most of these trucks
will be purchased by suburban dwelling office workers who commute 90+
minutes/work in this thing, and use the plug in feature 2x/year tops. We
really need to stop seeing enormous trucks as socially acceptable and need to
start seeing them as sociopathic.

