
Crossfit Inc. suspends use of Facebook and associated properties - smsm42
https://www.crossfit.com/battles/crossfit-suspends-facebook-instagram
======
chrisseaton
Wow I had heard Crossfit was a bit of an obsession for some people and a
quirky approach to fitness, but I had no idea their official spiel was this
level of paranoia - attacking academia as an unholy alliance of the
establishment?

> The voluntary CrossFit community of 15,000 affiliates and millions of
> individual adherents stands steadfastly and often alone against an unholy
> alliance of academia, government, and multinational food, beverage, and
> pharmaceutical companies.

~~~
tw04
If you've ever been an athlete, and have spent 30 seconds watching crossfit -
it becomes obvious the goal is to see how dumb of an "exercise" you can do
before getting hurt.

There are two type of crossfitters - those who have gotten a permanent and
serious injury, and those who are going to get one.

~~~
pen2l
Just wondering here --

Isn't crossfit different depending on where you go?

I believe it was invented by some European guy... who did stuff with
kettlebells. And most of those exercises are good.

I think the American variant is the one that's dangerous. (Or am I misinformed
here?)

~~~
121789
Don't think it's a geographical split. Crossfit is great if you have really
well-informed trainers that put a strong emphasis on getting form and
movements correct. Unfortunately there are significant numbers of trainers
that do not have the qualifications to be teaching and they put people at
serious risk of injury (and end up creating ridiculous exercises for the
internet to make fun of).

~~~
hi5eyes
kipping is fucking hilarious

~~~
User23
What's hilarious about using momentum to progress to a muscle up and
eventually a strict muscle up?

In my observation, and this is at many gyms (btw I don't do Crossfit), very
few people do every rep of a pull up from a true dead hang. Kipping is silly
looking, but the technique does allow you to progress your way into a muscle
up, kind of like a push press can help you train your strict press past what
you otherwise could.

~~~
xwdv
That’s because people are impatient and weak. Dead hang pullups are _real_
pullups.

Kipping only leads you to kipping muscle ups. Go on YouTube and see examples
of real muscle ups from dead hangs with no momentum. That is true strength,
and a worthy goal. The sooner you stop kipping, the faster you can get there.

~~~
User23
I have the greatest respect for gymnasts, because they are basically top of
the heap for pound for pound strength. It's not an area of expertise for me
though, so please enlighten me: if using momentum to get a kipping muscle up
and then gradually reducing the momentum assist until you can do it strictly
isn't the right progression, what is?

~~~
d_k_f
I think the main problem with the Crossfit-kipping-approach you often see on
YouTube is that it doesn't look like the person being filmed is at all
interested in ever transitioning to a proper muscle up, but rather to kip as
much as possible to get as many reps as possible in 60 second or w/e.

You're absolutely right in that you need to start somewhere, and a properly
instructed kip can definitely help there. But you could also start by doing
negatives of the partial exercises (start pulled/pushed up and lower yourself
down in a controlled manner), which can be at the same time used to teach
proper form and naturally transition into a full muscle up.

Once again, it's the classic Crossfit problem: if you do it properly and
controlled, it is a nice exercise regimen. According to most anecdotal
evidence, a lot of people don't, though.

Edit: retiredcoder also replied with bands etc. to support in the beginning,
which is obviously also a good method and, now that I think of it, one I've
often seen in my gym. In the same vein, there's usually a pull up machine
somewhere in the back that will support you by using a counterweight on the
way up, though here you'll have the usual discussion regarding machine/no
machine.

------
ixtli
Uh this is typical cultish reaction to being called out: accuse others of
doing exactly what you yourself are doing.

I'd like to remind everyone here, in case you are considering crossfit, that
several years ago they caused a rash of cases of rhabdomyolysis. So in
response they created a clown character called "Uncle Rhabdo" which they
attached to propaganda that tried to convince their members that this possibly
fatal condition isn't serious. Seriously:

[http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-
rhabdomyolysis-...](http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-
rhabdomyolysis-and-whats-its-connection-to-crossfit-75623)

"There is a lively online community posting selfies from hospital and who
consider a rhabdo diagnosis as a badge of honour, showing their dedication to
exercise."

~~~
JohnBooty
Been doing Crossfit since December.

Had to sign a pretty sensible waiver upon joining.

There was a section describing the symptoms of rhabdo, letting me know in NO
uncertain terms that it was a potentially fatal medical emergency. Honestly,
I'd never heard of it before reading that waiver. Rather than encouraging me
to experience rhabo, Crossfit gave me some crucial warnings there!

Safety's a big deal at the Crossfit gym I go to. I'm out of shape and the
instructors pay special attention (and suggest reduced/modified versions of
exercises) to make things work for me.

    
    
        "There is a lively online community posting selfies 
        from hospital and who consider a rhabdo diagnosis as 
        a badge of honour, showing their dedication to exercise." 
    

Erm, ah, that's hard to say. While I'd certainly agree that intentionally
injuring yourself is utterly insane, I'm not sure that'd be my interpretation
of any of this. Like many hobbies and professions, athletes engage in shop
talk that borders on gallows humor.

Imagine two violin students comparing their painful callouses. Or software
engineers exchanging horror stories about late-night debugging battles with
Internet Explorer 6 or talking about screwups where they accidentally deleted
some live data. Or firefighters comparing all the scars they've accumulated
over the years.

Athletes are no different. Shit happens, sometimes you get hurt and then you
laugh about it because it's all part of the journey. That's how you get
through it. Screwed up my ankle playing tennis the other week. First thing I
did was share it with my fellow tennis buds. We help each other and share the
pain and laugh.

I don't want to stereotype Hacker News readers, because a lot of engineer-
types _do_ enjoy sports and exercise, but I would imagine there are a lot of
HN readers who would have a hard time understanding athletes laughing about
their injuries since they've never been there. Just like a pro football player
might not be able to understand how/why HN readers willingly spend those late
nights hunched over a keyboard. For those of us who straddle both worlds, it's
kind of funny, because we know the folks living in those worlds aren't nearly
as different from their counterparts as they think they are.

~~~
smsm42
I imagine some journalists may read some HN threads about mistakes people make
on the job and all kinds of "rm -fr /" scenarios one has been part of, and
then write an article about how IT people are so insane that they glorify
wanton destruction of systems they are entrusted to maintain and how this
"devops" cult is evil because of it.

------
arthurofbabylon
Two things stand out to me as startling/interesting.

First, CrossFit is sort of presenting FB as a public health threat. Obviously
it is, but I don’t hear a lot of entities make that argument.

Second, CrossFit is doing a role reversal, saying that _they_ will place FB
under review, they will decide if FB is an appropriate platform for them. In a
way, they’re assuming a dominating position (yes everyone knows FB is
bigger/stronger, but you can still scare bears off by shouting and looking
large, and even weaker players can find upper hands or shift position). That’s
a strange take on receiving FB’s perceived abuse that I have not observed
before.

~~~
abtinf
It is hard to say whether FB or CrossFit has more influence in this situation.

I have friends on FB who are fanatical about CrossFit. They write and post
photos about workouts, events, and achievements. They seem to have limited use
for FB otherwise.

With their sizable national (and increasingly global) community of dedicated
fitness enthusiasts, I suspect CrossFit has better-than-even odds of launching
a wildly successful sports-and-fitness-oriented social network. They would be
able to instantly attract a large member base, have a presence in every
metropolitan area, and those people would recruit their friends onto the
network.

Edit to add: from what I can tell, CrossFit _is_ a social network already.
Except its a real-life network with people who spend a lot of time together.

~~~
weq
CorssFit isnt a social network, its a cult. Ive had multiple friends join the
cult, including one friend whos wife divorced him because he didnt share her
love of CrossFit. The end result was always the same - chronic injuries
usually only seen in professional sports people -> move to multi-level-
marketing / influencing for any product linked to fitness / inspirational
pr0n.

~~~
JohnBooty
Been doing it for six months and never seen any of this.

Obsessive people are gonna obsess, and some will be drawn to Crossfit, but
I've seen nothing more obsessive about Crossfit than other sports I've
participated in like tennis or hockey. And honestly I'm not sure any of them
hold a candle to software development in terms of obsessiveness... never known
anybody to exercise 60 hours a week, but I know a lot of coders and gamers who
hunch over a keyboard for that long. (Including me)

    
    
        > move to multi-level-marketing
    

I just go and work out and have no idea about the community around it (other
than liking the folks at my gym) but I don't get the MLM jab here?

I've never heard of any kind of referral-based or MLM opportunity in crossfit.

    
    
        > chronic injuries usually only seen in professional sports people
    

I can only share my own anecdotal experiences and that is that our gym's
trainers are super focused on healthy techniques for weighted exercises. (And
I might add, at least at our gym, you're never supposed to do them at anywhere
near your max weight!)

Ultimately, a lot of athletes including me are making a reasoned choice. You
can't really control a lot of things about your body, but you can definitely
control your cardio fitness and your muscle mass to an extent. There are some
risks involved with furthering your cardio and strength but also massive
rewards.

    
    
        > including one friend whos wife divorced him because he didnt share her love of CrossFit
    

Is her exercise routine really the cause here, or is it a symptom? This
doesn't sound like the healthiest marriage.

I definitely understand that it can cause friction when one partner puts
effort into healthier living and one doesn't. I've been on both sides of that
coin. Right now my wife's taken the lead, I need to catch up.

I've watched friends die because they refused to be proactive about diet,
health, and exercise in general. Never had a friend die from exercising yet.
Although some of them really ought to talk a bit less about it if you ask me.

------
saintPirelli
I see a lot of scepticism towards CrossFit here and it's probably with good
reason, but I just want to add that your experience with the method of
training is very dependant on the actual gym you go to.

Where I started training (and I was like the definition of "out of shape") the
coaches preach form > intensity every step of the way and actually forbid you
to do any dynamic movement before you have not sufficently mastered the strict
equivalent. That said, I have also met Crossfitters that can do ten unbroken
kipping pull ups and not a single strict one, which is obviously incredibly
irresponsible and stupid.

I have now moved away from doing regular CrossFit workouts for many of the
reasons listed in this thread, but I can honestly say, that changing my habits
from couchpotato to fit dude would have not happened if it wasn't for the
community and the style of training I have encoutered there. I learned how to
backsquat there, I learned how to lock in my shoulders there, I learned how to
stretch there, I learned about the basics of training methodology there. This
would have never happend if I would have just gone to Planet Fitness (or
whatever) on my own.

~~~
dsl
I'm not judging CrossFit on the program or its value. I take great issue with
this straight up anti-vaxx type of thinking:

"Facebook is acting in the service of food and beverage industry interests by
deleting the accounts of communities that have identified the corrupted
nutritional science responsible for unchecked global chronic disease."

 _science is responsible for disease, listen to us instead_

~~~
smsm42
Replacing "corrupted nutritional science" with just "science", as if they deny
science as a concept, is a very dishonest rhetorical trick. We have seen very
bad nutritional advice given under the guise of "nutritional science" for
years, and now we know that advice was very bad. We're still not entirely
sure, as far as I know, how good nutritional advice looks like, in many cases,
and it may be completely appropriate to point to some nutritional advice as
bad nutritional science. And yes, using such advice can cause disease - just
as using "science" at the time which denied the germ theory was the cause of
many cases of disease. It's a very far cry from denying whole science or even
nutritional science.

~~~
dsl
Using it with the tone that "Big Doritos" is buying off Facebook to help
silence dissenting voices in nutrition is disingenuous.

Sure there is lots of bad advice floating around - but claiming a conspiracy
requires some hard evidence be put forth.

~~~
smsm42
Depending of what you call "conspiracy". Does US Government promoting
disastrous nutritional advice for decades and pushing the food industry to
produce what we now recognize as extremely unhealthy products qualify as
"conspiracy"? Does reluctance of the industry to recognize just how bad those
are because they sell extremely well and some are likely to be physiologically
and psychologically addictive - constitute a "conspiracy"? Maybe not, since it
happens in the open and evidence of it is literally in front of our own eyes
every time we go to the supermarket. Does it make anything better if it's not
qualified as "conspiracy"?

------
bryanwb
Actions like this are an annoying distraction. Crossfit HQ is kind of a
nuthouse. The Crossfit program is truly wonderful as long as you always use
proper form. If you can't use proper form on a rep, don't do the rep. It's
that simple. I have been doing Crossfit for a year and haven't seen any
significant injuries. But my gym emphasizes proper form over numbers. Some
gyms ensure people use proper form, some don't. Crossfit (done properly) is
leagues better for your overall health than weightlifting, running, bicycling,
you name it. It is not necessarily more fun however.

~~~
ixtli
> If you can't use proper form on a rep, don't do the rep. It's that simple.

This is sorta disingenuous. A layman can't tell if they're doing an exercise
correctly without instruction, and you can do something correctly 99 times and
still becomes seriously injured by doing it incorrectly one more time. I'm not
trying to make an argument that you shouldn't exercise but it's definitely
_not_ "simple."

~~~
bryanwb
It is not disingenuous. Many crossfit exercises are complex as you correctly
observe and require a good bit of practice before you can do them w/ any
substantial weight.

A layman should not do them w/out instruction and a good coach will not let
laymen do regular workouts until they have mastered the basics.

A good coach also observes a new student's abilities and advises them how to
scale the movement properly as they progress. A bad coach does not.

for the same reasons, you should never attempt Olympic weightlifting movements
w/out a coach, i.e. snatch and clean+jerk. In fact, I feel pretty strongly you
should not learn how to squat or deadlift w/out a coach or personal trainer.

~~~
crikli
I did CrossFit for 5 years and a shoulder surgery and visited about 30 gyms
during that time. What you’re saying isn’t disingenuous but it’s thoroughly
idealized and unrealistic.

Workouts with high volumes of technical movements are regularly programmed.
RFT workouts with 60 snatches. High volumes of kipping pull-ups. Form goes to
shit when you get tired, period, whether you are running or snatching, but
being on a clock does not lend itself to slowing down, setting up right, and
doing a technical movement with good form. It’s completely antithetical to it.

The coaching quality at CF gyms is widely varied and in my experience most of
the folks regardless of their great intentions have no business coaching that
many people doing that many complex movements.

There are much safer ways CF could be doing things. Ditch snatches and kipping
pull-ups for a start. Snatches are dangerous when done improperly and kipping
pull-ups are specifically bad for shoulder joints in individuals who have not
built up enough strength to do several strict pullups.

~~~
bryanwb
I agree w/ you on both the snatches and the kipping pullups. they both have
too high a risk to reward imo.

i also agree that many coaches are terrible.

------
krustyburger
This is actually a big deal. CrossFit, whether you like it or not (I’m not a
fan) is at this point a major consumer brand. Not too long ago it would have
been unthinkable for a brand this significant to make this kind of move.

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
It should be unthinkable. Do we really want social issues litigated by major
brands slinging mud at each other? Imagine Pepsi publishing the equivalent
article about how Comcast is evil.

~~~
badfrog
> Do we really want social issues litigated by major brands slinging mud at
> each other?

I agree the mud slinging in this post is pretty ridiculous, but I certainly
like it when major brands refuse to do business with other brands that are
harmful to society. For example, those that chose not to advertise on Fox
News.

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
I can respect a decision to simply not do business. Going on a rant about it
just feels like an attempt to manipulate public discourse for Crossfit’s
benefit.

------
ImprovedSilence
Interesting, because there's no way crossfit the brand gets where it is today
without FB and IG and it's millions of believers posting #crossfit #blessed
#pump #cross #fit #getsum #etcetc. Having said that, maybe it's trying to
avoid the masses of troll hashtags much like mine above....

------
busterarm
I'm somewhat shocked seeing almost the entire HN commentariat more upset at
CrossFit then they are at Facebook.

If I were to weigh the two companies and their potential harm that can be done
to society, globally, Facebook breaks the scale.

Is it really a big surprise to see CrossFit, a company run by people, to come
to similar conclusions that inspired things like #DeleteFacebook?

Addendum: I guess the flood of downvotes on this is similarly unsurprising. HN
will defend to the death Facebook's private property rights, while absolutely
slamming a CrossFit'ers rights to do what they want with their own body. Wait
a second, I thought this place skewed Progressive politically... ...I smell a
hypocrisy.

------
hcho3
> “millions of individual adherents“

Is Crossfit a cult? At first I thought the article was a parody or something

~~~
busymom0
It has become a cult. I personally have no problem with people lifting and
motivating each other and CrossFit was originally quite good, especially the
competitive athletes. But now a days it’s become a huge cult where it’s all
about people motivating each other to see how many reps of a certain exercise
a person can do while completely throwing the form out of the window. Couple
of my friends are in sports medicine field and they tell me on how CrossFit
has become a way to keep sports meds employed because it’s single handedly the
most cases of sports injury in their clinic.

~~~
manmal
To be fair, the growing numbers of CrossFit athletes alone could describe the
growing numbers of injuries. If e.g. 10x as many people do CrossFit than do
handball, they will account for a majority of injuries.

~~~
FireBeyond
Maybe, but CF regularly uses for workout of the day an acronym that escapes me
for now that is basically "until exhaustion" (possibly "amrap" \- as many
repetitions as possible). So many of those is going to make you susceptible to
injury, especially with their "keep going" mentality.

~~~
busymom0
Yea, usually motivation by your peers is a good thing but in CrossFit, it’s
detrimental as it forces you to stop listening to your own body because of
peer pressure.

~~~
bryanwb
that's true of any exercise that involves a group

------
tedmcory77
There’s some ridiculous stuff going on where users come into a group, post bad
stuff, then report the group. Boom, group deleted. Facebooks gotta do
something about it...

------
jeffrallen
Wow, it's not often you get a win/win. Facebook will have less bullshit
CrossFit stuff, and CrossFit will be less vulnerable to Facebook's bullshit
censoring.

Way to go team!

------
kristianc
> 2\. Facebook collaborates with government security agencies on massive
> citizen surveillance programs such as PRISM.

It's slightly weird to only find this an issue _after_ your Facebook page with
1.65m fans has been deleted.

The tone of this piece comes over as really off and aggressive generally.

~~~
anonnyj
Is it though? I've seen the same thing played out before in other contexts.
Someone being abused/taken advantage off, but making lots of money, so they
keep their mouth shut. Once they get fired / stop being profitable, they're
free to call out what bugged them.

------
JohnBooty
I've been doing Crossfit since December and _wow._

That manifesto I just read there was pretty scary and cult-like, complete with
totally off-topic jabs at socialism and uh, science?.

I'm having a hard time reconciling that with what my wife and I have
experienced at our local Crossfit gym, which has been among the most
supportive and pressure-free experiences I've ever had in my life.

To be honest, nobody's ever even mentioned diet to me there and I'm pretty
overweight. The Crossfit diet seems to be low-carb, high-protein, high-
vegetable which frankly is very sensible and not exactly extreme.

One thing I'd been warned about before doing Crossfit was that they don't
always teach proper form for weighted exercises and that therefore there's an
injury risk. I've been very wary about that. But the instructors at my gym are
super responsive and proactive when it comes to my form. High marks there.

As others have said, Crossfit gyms are independently operated. Culture is
going to vary by gym. I suspect (like anything else) the gyms that garner the
most attention are the ones that are kinda on the fringe and not the majority
where you go do fun/grueling workouts with a supportive community.

~~~
bryanwb
This is exactly my experience.

------
RenRav
Wow, I actually had no idea crossfit was an organization. I thought it was
just a name for an activity, like calisthenics or something.

That's good they are disengaging from facebook. I was clueless that facebook
had forums or community stuff. I always thought of forum users using fake
handles, aliases, anything but their real identities. Hopefully they can
bolster up their own site and provide an example for others.

------
chris_wot
"The voluntary CrossFit community of 15,000 affiliates and millions of
individual adherents stands steadfastly and often alone against an unholy
alliance of academia, government, and multinational food, beverage, and
pharmaceutical companies."

Paranoid much? Or perhaps it is Crossfit that gets it wrong?

~~~
rblatz
It’s part of their battle against sugar and type 2 diabetes.

------
gvand
Reminder:

Always reflect on who you are associating yourself with, in a cult, company
owned group, non-democratic group, activity that marks you as "one of
them",etc... you cease to be an individual and become just the fuel behind
someone else's agenda and values (neither of which you can control).

Be an individual.

~~~
jeffrallen
Yes, we're all individuals.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY)

------
notananthem
CrossFit is fucking bananas, as an "exercise" as well as a cult/religion. Not
trying to sound defensive of facebook at all but holy shit, CrossFit is
crazytown. The company, the idea, and the customers.

~~~
ixtli
That you're getting downvoted means that people here don't know about
CrossFit's history. (c.f.: the 'uncle rhabdo' shit from a few years ago
[http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-
rhabdomyolysis-...](http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-
rhabdomyolysis-and-whats-its-connection-to-crossfit-75623) )

------
thex10
Wow, I enjoyed following their Instagram account and am sad to see it go, but
good for them for making that decision.

------
jstr
> Facebook’s news feeds are censored and crafted to reflect the political
> leanings of Facebook’s utopian socialists while remaining vulnerable to
> misinformation campaigns designed to stir up violence and prejudice.

Wat.

------
paulcole
CrossFit talking about “corrupted nutritional science”. That’s rich.

------
klim_bim
Facebook = AOL + friendster and was founded by a someone who called his users
dumb f*cks. What else can you expect from a company with this kind of DNA.

