
Ask HN: 30+ men and women in software, how much do you make? - geiwo
I am curious to know what men and women 30 and beyond make. I just turned 31 and have decade of experience. I am excited being in my 30s but concerned at the same time. I am well aware of and have witnessed ageism. I know if you stay good there are no lack of opportunities. However, once you buy house and have kids picture change dramatically.<p>I am single and yet to find a woman who I like enough to marry. Kids are off for me for at least 4 more yrs.<p>I will start with myself. I live in Seattle, 10 yrs of experience and make 135k (not Amazon).<p>How much do you make and what&#x27;s your story?
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salary_chat
Americans surely know the value of a good developer. Unbelievable how terrible
the pay is in Europe. 70k-80k is a common end-of-career salary here.

I once had a business partner (French) and we were launching a software-based
business. He was the President, I was the CEO (leading all technical,
engineering and operations management matters, that's quite a bit... he was
handling the sales).

I told him that as a first step, I wanted to pay myself a $80k salary as soon
as the business would have the appropriate cashflow. He told me "$80k ? That's
quite a high salary for a CEO, but this sounds like a good long-term
objective".

Lol. This is one of the reasons I talk about this partnership in the past
tense. But this gives you an idea, about the mindset in Europe and of how the
compensation tends to be way below the value produced.

For some reason I'm happy when I read here about people just turning 30 making
over $150k per year as development manager / senior devs. This is what a
first-class engineer deserves.

~~~
blub
Yes on the other hand I have the impression that it's very easy to fire
someone at will in the US and healthcare is very expensive and is tied to the
company.

Overall I have the feeling that workers have fewer rights in the US. This is
usually working fine for something that's in demand, but can quickly become
terrible.

~~~
yulaow
Also hours of works per week and vacations days are very different.

In EU I start with 5-6 weeks of vacations per year even in the most basic
position, and sick days and national holidays are not in that count. Typically
I work 38-40h/w, rarely more than 45 (and just few days per months).

When one of my friend asked me to move to SV in the startup he is working in I
would get almost 3x pay, but far less vacation and a work week of 60h/w
minimum. Not worth it for me

~~~
bbcbasic
What if you did one year on two years off?

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salary_throwawa
Canadian checking in (Calgary). $175k in my late 30s.

To get here I've had to negotiate every career change. I learned early that an
offer was just that, an offer. I made it a habit to not accept the first offer
and (almost) always counter.

I find that too many of us don't negotiate hard enough. I suppose it's easier
to negotiate when you have options. With my salary and age, I'm also finding
fewer options when I look for the role.

~~~
stuxnet79
Do you mind sharing what Canadian city you are based in?

~~~
salary_throwawa
edited parent to add Calgary.

------
Webster
Recently turned 61. I make $110k, 30+ years a developer. Currently work with
Java on Search Engines. Spent most of my career in C working on chemical
search engines. Happy to be healthy, alive, and still having a blast writing
software

~~~
bo_Olean
Do you enjoy or find time to write code outside of work?

------
tboyd47
Just turned 30. I make $95k before taxes and I'm eight years a developer. I'm
married and have two kids. We rent and have no plans to buy yet. I'm east
coast.

I worry about ageism sometimes, but it still seems far off. I'm more concerned
about just not getting jaded. I've been in a lot of work environments that
seemed good at first, but turned out to be rather unpleasant.

I love being 30. It's a great age. I'm excited to get older, too. No desire to
go back to my 20s.

------
throwaway3223
I'm in early 30s, live in Ohio making around $105k before taxes working as a
backend developer for a medium size company. $90k to $110k is a pretty
standard salary for a backend (or full stack) developer with 10 years of
experience throughout the state from my interview experience. Adjusting for
cost of living in Seattle versus my location, your salary is pretty comparable
to mine. Done just about everything software wise from the frontend to the
backend in a number of different languages (C#, Java, Scala, JavaScript,
Python, PHP).

If you're witnessing ageism already, you're probably dodging a bullet working
at those toxic places for reasons that go beyond just ageism. Seattle would be
my choice to live in though if I were on the West Coast.

I do projects on the side as a hobby (mobile apps and such). Keeps up my
skills and pays for my lunch money. Used to do a lot of contract work for
startups in the area and small businesses. Wanted more stability, so I gave it
up for a regular salary. I sometimes miss the freedom I had with my previous
work, but doing my side projects keeps me happy when I get bogged down with
too much "process" at my day job.

------
ionised
\- 30 years old, 4 years professional experience

\- £35,000, £1800~ p/m after tax and pension contribution

\- 20% income tax, 22.5% VAT

\- Back-end Java dev

\- Java/Spring/Hibernate/Redis/MongoDB/Docker/Vagrant/JavaScript/Angular

\- North West UK (Liverpool area)

\- 37.5 hours p/w, 24 days paid holiday, paid sick leave

I am well aware how badly devs in the UK can be paid and it is a constant
source of bitterness.

Would seriously entertain opportunities abroad.

------
nullundefined
Male, 30. 4.5 years "professional" development experience.

$170k base salary plus $20,000 signing bonus. 0.5% equity. Series A small
company.

~~~
itake
JW, where are you located?

~~~
nullundefined
In the bay area.

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this_throwaway
After 30,

\- 125K, startup.

\- 110K, cut salary for an early stage startup.

\- 150K, with upto 25% bonus, plus options, startup that made boatload of
money.

\- 210K, consultant

\- 280K, consultant

\- 300K, consultant

~~~
iends
What are you consulting?

~~~
this_throwaway
Full stack web app for some companies with special needs. I have to do
everything: biz dev, product management, project management, architect/design,
development, DBA, QA, support, dev ops.

Also consulting for legal technical due diligence.

~~~
earcaraxe
When you say consulting do you mean like big consulting companies? KPMG , PWC,
etc?

~~~
this_throwaway
No, just by myself. I do "join" another company which takes care of billing
and taxes. For health insurance I just use my wife's company's health plan.

------
jimmywanger
40 years old, 155k, 10% performance bonus, full remote with the stipulation
that I stay within a couple time zones of PST.

~~~
jimmywanger
And just an edit: I have 18 years of experience, and this was a pretty hefty
pay cut from my last job. The full remote makes things worthwhile for me, at
least.

~~~
totalZero
Where in South America do you spend most of your time?

~~~
jimmywanger
Why do you ask?

~~~
totalZero
I'm looking for new places to go. My experience with South America has been
that some of the best places are the ones that don't readily appear as tourist
destinations for North Americans like myself.

~~~
jimmywanger
I'm more of a central america kinda fellow. I haven't spent any time in South
American.

The reason I asked why you asked is it was unclear what information you were
interested in. I primarily know about Guatemala, Honduras, and Mexico.

If you want something off the beaten path, try Xela, Guatemala. Your Spanish
needs to be adequate, as very few people there speak English (except for
expats).

The best places actually are tourist destinations, if you're looking for
places to go. If you're looking for a place to settle down for a few months,
that's different.

~~~
totalZero
I'll check out Xela.

I've always wanted to go to Lake Atitlán. I hear there's a restaurant in Santa
Cruz La Laguna that does very traditional Guatemalteco cuisine with an
incredible view of the lake. The restaurant is called Cafe Sabor Cruceno, and
it's run by a local trade school. You have to take a boat from Panajachel to
get there...but don't go in March or April, because the fog in the atmosphere
that time of year really kills the view.

San Miguel de Allende in Mexico is also on my list. Not sure what the 4G LTE
situation is like out there, however.

------
EXueBRJ9d
Male, 45, wife, child free, Boston, lots of experience + advanced degree,
$250K. Team lead is probably the best description of my role.

~~~
fratlas
Plan on having kids?

~~~
EXueBRJ9d
No. I should have written childfree.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_childlessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_childlessness)

------
HugoDaniel
Male, 33, 8 years of experience, 24k EUR in my last job. (Currently trying to
bootstrap a personal proj.)

Lisbon, Portugal.

~~~
zerr
I find odd such low wages, also in Spain... I have an impression that taxi
drivers or fishermen make much more... don't they?

~~~
simonswords82
Don't know about other professions but Spain (and Portugal) are ridiculously
low paying employers of programmers and technical people in general.

------
Tech1
30, M, NYC, 120k. Firmware (C++), and some Java.

I just realized how bad I'm getting boned.

~~~
tdb7893
I don't know if this is low for NYC or not but I would take the numbers in
these threads with a huge grain of salt. It's a really low sample size and
people who make a lot (or feel like they aren't making enough) are more likely
to tell their salary to the general public in my experience.

------
ta-20161001
Mid-30's. Male. Married. A few kids.

SF bay area. > 10 yrs at top tier post-IPO SV company. Backend infra
development (C++). One of the top 10-15% engineers in the company.

> 400K total comp this year - < 50% of that is salary; rest is bonus and stock
> grants (portion vested in 2016 of all the grants received over the last 3-4
> years).

Going forward, it seems stocks will dominate the total compensation but its
okay given the current state of my company.

Taxes: effective 35-40% (federal + state + payroll).

~~~
jeffwass
When reading these compensation threads, I've been curious about this for
awhile. In your valuation, are you counting the stock's price at the time of
issuance or time of vesting and delivery?

If quoting as of time of delivery, I think it's a bit confusing as it mixes in
the capital appreciation or loss of the stock with the employers actual
intended total compensation for the year of the award.

For example, let's say you were awarded 400 shares of stock 2 years ago, and
100 shares vest each year. Stock price was $300 two years ago at the time of
the award, but now is $600 at the time of this year's vesting.

Would you count the contribution of 100 vesting shares to your total
compensation for this year as $60k?

Or, since it was awarded 2 years ago, would you have included the full 400
shares only in your two-years-ago compensation number valued at $120k?

~~~
ta-20161001
The stock value is at the time of vesting. So if I am awarded 40 stocks in
2014 with a grant price of 100$ and vesting over 4 years, 10 of them will vest
in 2016. If 2016 (average) vesting price is 200, I am quoting 2000$ as my
stock compensation. Basically, whatever will be reflected on my W2 under
Adjusted Gross Income.

But I agree, someone's stock compensation is tricky to evaluate - some quote
it at the grant time, some quote at vesting time but at grant value, some
quote otherwise.

------
mythrowaway1
Married, 33, no kids, Washington State(the middle). I do WebDev, fully remote,
$110k plus bonus. no degree. In my mid twenties i was making $260k in
management, but there was months of travel per year involved, was fun for a
while.

------
sydthrow
Male, 43, Sydney, 17 Years experience. No degree. Self taught.

2008 - $125k + 20% bonus - Full-time employee

2009 - $80k - Started my own web development company

2010 - $110k - Built a product

2011 - $132k - Daughter born

2012 - $145k -

2013 - $150k -

2014 - $150k - Son born

2015 - $250k - Hired 1st employee

2016 - $480k - Hired 2nd and 3rd employees

~~~
jackgolding
As an Aussie do you have any advice on making the inhouse to running your own
thing shift? I'm still very young but am earning a very nice wage, I'm afraid
my as income gets higher (and responsibilities start flowering) it will be
harder to make the jump.

~~~
sydthrow
In my experience to successfully start and run a consulting/web dev company,
you need to communicate to decision making business people better than the
majority of others in IT, and have a reputation for getting shit done. Your
reputation doesn't have to be wide and huge, it's probably more important
initially for it to be with the right people. I've found most (if not all) of
my work has come via referrals from people high enough to make or influence
decisions leaving their old job, and recommending me at the new one when a
problem comes up that I helped them solve before.

It also helps if you're a nice person, because people don't choose to work
with people they don't like. Being nice, having good communication skills, and
getting shit done will lift you head and shoulders above other IT companies
and IT employees.

Some tips:

\- Good communication takes empathy

\- Listen more than you talk

\- Stop talking when people are tuning out. This comes naturally to some
people, but it's hard to know if you do it or not. Ask a friend, family or
trusted co-worker and practice when in conversation.

\- Don't use IT acronyms with business people, unless it's unavoidable or
you're joking around

\- Learn about the businesses you serve so you can intelligently talk to them

\- Know enough about the technology you offer to explain it simply, without
condescension

\- Be good humoured and a little bit fun, but you have to know when to stop or
who you can play around with

------
zerr
Interesting, at 31, what kind of ageism did you face? I'm thinking about some
kind of under-23 hipster startup... Or did you experience it within a well-
rounded company/people?

------
throwaway_sal1
75K Euros. Georgia (non-EU eastern European country). Working from home for
western European company. Early 30s.

------
throawaybay
125k base + some stock... 8 years experience, age 36. Bay area. Full stack,
mostly java.

Talking with friends it seems like salaries have exploded the past 1-2 years.
I know of two at ~160k and recruiters are indicating 160-180k base right now.

So it seems like I'm leaving a lot on the table....

~~~
throwaway_java
good time to job hop

------
madengr
Well I'm 45 and in hardware with 20 years experience; $148k + 13% bonus. I
didn't make near, at 30, the quoted figures here. I guess software really does
pay well. If my employer thinks they pay me too much, they can bugger-off.

------
d4rkph1b3r
35 Los Angeles (working for a BaY Area company remotely).

175k total cash comp (part of it is bonus).

~~~
bbcbasic
Out of interest, what sort of skills and responsibility are expected to get
that level of income?

~~~
d4rkph1b3r
writing cloud based services, some low level network code and some higher
level FP style code. I have a lot of github contributions to notable projects
(took a lot of time to build that up).

I have a few close friends who make a fair bit more working at big 4 tech
companies who don't any sort of online presence. They just did well in
interviews, were persistent and not afraid to flunk some interviews, then
worked hard to get promoted.

------
sg47
$201k base with 15% bonus target. In management. Bay Area.

------
f500throwaway
Age:31

Years exp: 8 full time

Base: 180k

RSU: 60k/yr

Bonus:30% (more last year)

I work remotely for a fortune 500 as a software engineer. No degree. College
dropout.

~~~
lockedoutwhoops
Nice!!! Specialty? Company?

------
foobar100
33 here, NYC, Finance, major company. 15 years experience. Low-latency trading
systems programming, and some management. 380 base, 450 bonus.

~~~
bigbang
Wow. What sort of programming do you do? Do you mind sharing how to get to
such a level, skills needed etc?

------
IndianAstronaut
Early 30s. Had a late start in my career so just 4 years of work experience in
data analysis and data engineering. 75k in Texas.

------
SpendBig
Have been a system engineer, switched to PHP developer(mainly backend). I am
31, wife and kid. I make about $45K a year in the netherlands. Really have no
idea if that matches the salary of other php developers in my country with
about the same experience, but im having a great time at the company i work
for.

------
throwaway3927
31, wife, 4 kids, compiler development, 10+ years in software development, BS
in CS. Colorado Springs, CO, USA. 85K$.

------
V-2
35 years old, 5 years of experience as a software dev.

Poland

I make the equivalent of about $16.5/h on B2B (net pay after all taxes, social
fees etc.)

------
ev_rolfe
I think its worth noting that the majority of the people posting their salary
here seem to be quite successful so I'd take these response with a grain of
salt.

Seems likely that people who are successful will be more willing to post their
earnings then people who are not!

------
throwaway873
40 years old, 3 years dev exp., 140k salary (no bonus and not counting
options). SF. I have no idea why they offered me so much, but I jumped on it.

Wondering what my next move in a couple years should be.

~~~
dennisgorelik
What did you do before you became a software developer?

------
sdrothrock
31, male, Tokyo, four years at the job, 7 mm JPY, no bonuses/perks.

------
throwaway5023
Male 34 years old. San Jose CA. 3 kids (6, 4, 1) ~12 years experience.

200,000$ base + 9-12K yearly bonus

Working for a C series startup, same place for the last almost 6 years now.

I feel that by staying at the same company I am currently taking a 45-50K hit
on my yearly salary and it's beginning to bug me.

~~~
fuqted
Do you think there will be a time, given the proliferation of bootcamps (who
themselves will continue to iterate to compensate for an everchanging market),
there will be a time when you're employer is thinking the same thing about
you?

Are we just in a bubble is what I'm saying or is software still a valid thing
to get into with the expectation that, if one is particularly good, they'll be
able to earn that much in 10 years?

-24 year old, Oakland, learning to code for the past few months

------
ukta0099
£130k total comp, made up of base salary, bonus, stock grant annualised.

Early 30s, London. I don't work in finance.

I went to a couple of well-regarded universities. This helps but definitely
isn't essential. Being good with people and writing well has helped me as much
as any technical skills.

------
dylanz
I'm 37 and work part time from home. I used to work a lot of hours in a CTO
and CEO role, making more money, but opted for a smaller salary and having
more free time in my life. I'm very happy right now. edit: I should note, I
have 2 kids and treat myself to a lot of luxury, so I barely scrape by month
to month. I'm fine with that. Carpe Diem.

------
iorlas
Age 25. No kids, not married.

7 years in web, 9 total in development.

Went from senior with 9k$ salary to TeamLead with 15k$. Then to CIO with 19k$.
Now I'm working in different company as Lead Web-developer/Architect with
23k$.

Russia, Saint-Petersburg. I should mention that I got my salary in rubles, so
yeah...

------
umlaut
31, CAD development lead, 3 years experience, A.A.S in Gunsmithing,
Centennial, CO, USA. $67k.

20% work from home, 401k match to 4% salary, 15 days vacation, and no one even
tracks sick days unless it's 2+/mo.

------
byoung2
My last salary as an employee was $175k at age 35 as director of engineering.
8 years of experience.

------
toss_it_hi
28, male, not married, no kids, hawaii, 70k salary, 1 mo/vacation/yr plus
federal/state paid holidays, ~10 years web developer exp, 4ish years RoR, side
biz ~10k MRR

------
throwaway_atl
I started working in Atlanta in 1996 as an Assembler programmer making $27k.

20 years later, at the age of 45, I am making $160k as an Application
Architect.

------
particleswarm
40+, East Coast (North Carolina), have been a developer for 15+ years.
$145,000 salary.

------
safajirafa
I live in Montreal, 35, make CAD 98k/y 10+ years of experience. Married with
kids

------
money_throwaway
Vancouver, 37 years old. $150k base, $30k bonus, $150k RSU/annum all CAD.

------
ta120k
Sydney 120k converting aud to usd and including superannuation.

14 years exp.

------
tempymctempface
male dev ops 29 $140k

graduated CMU in 2009, worked at pretty much all the big players for a spell,
founded my own consulting firm in 2014 and landed some big accounts. mostly
all work is remote but I keep a condo in each of the majors in case I have to
be on site (and for the investment)

------
TiredGuy
32, married and kids. St. Louis Missouri. Recently jumped from about 87K to
100K plus 10% yearly bonus. Benefits and good work env.

------
canadathrowm
30, Vancouver, 105k base canadian dollars + options (likely not worth much).

Feel very underpaid after reading this. 8 years experience, CS degree.

------
threwawar
Canada, near Vancouver. Mid-30's. ~10 years experience backend/full-stack dev
$90k CAD.

------
ChoHag
35\. Just jacked in ~£100kpa for a 55% pay cut to an undemanding role in order
to spend more (all) time at home.

------
dev_salary
Male 34, 12 years full-time, working in Denver area as a Java dev.

$145k, $90k/year in RSU, 15-20% bonus from base salary.

------
ohgh1ieD
Male, 32 years old, 45k before taxes euro, central Europe, C#.

My salary is actually above the average.

------
psyc
Late 30s. 18 yrs experience. Seattle. Varies between about 90k and 120k.

------
salary_12345
Male, 33, 10 years of experience, Near London, £50k + 11% bonus and other
benefits.

------
shinryuu
£29k in London, 2 years experience. Python backend developer.

------
android521
110k (total comp ) , 31 , south east Asia. CIO

------
eecks
Can I also ask how much tax people are paying?

~~~
this_throwaway
63K taxes for 370K reported income.

Edit: forgot the AMT.

~~~
eecks
I assume that is USD? That amount is mind boggling to me. I am making 50k usd
(45k eur) with a few years experience. You pay more tax than I earn.

~~~
this_throwaway
Yes, USD. Experience count. After some more years of work, you could make as
much.

~~~
ThePawnBreak
Not in Europe.

------
ali23854
I'm 37. Wife and child. In London. 2003 - £15k

2005 - £27k

2010 - £43k

2011 - £47k

2012 - £53k

2013 - £66k (Got a promotion)

2016 - £73k

------
salary_tossme
male, 28, 5 yrs experience, $132k w2 + $10k/yr side contracting work. Florida

------
devmgr12345
36, Seattle, Dev Mgr, $150k

