
Apple’s actual role in podcasting: be careful what you wish for - jsm386
https://marco.org/2016/05/07/apple-role-in-podcasting
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firasd
Good article. Podcasts still have a 'Web 2.0', pre-Facebook ethos: there's a
feed, and there are software clients that check the feed and get a direct link
to the mp3 file. Personally, I want to make a site that archives podcast
episode listings, and guess what? If I have the time and energy, I can make
it. Getting the data--new episodes, episode descriptions, cover images--is not
an issue. The more that top publishers want Apple to introduce tracking,
revenue sharing, etc. the more all related data would get centralized, and as
Marco points out, in the long run podcast publishers might start resenting
Apple for becoming a major intermediary, the same way online publishers resent
decisions made by Facebook.

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frou_dh
This† got written 'cos I was alarmed by some podcasts being published solely
as YouTube videos with unchanging visuals! It munges such perversion into
audio files and proper podcast feeds.

† [https://github.com/frou/yt2pod](https://github.com/frou/yt2pod)

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edraferi
That is truely awful.

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fadzlan
Not sure why you think its awful. If you have a Youtube Channel which is not
very visual centric, use this and you get a podcast, viola!

If you use this on other people's content, that doesn't really make any sense.
Audio is not tech, its highly personal and you can't plagiarize the whole
thing and claim it your own when the dude in question doesn't sound you at
all. And unlike video which might present various things, podcast mostly
centers on the presenter itself.

In other words, it kinda defeats the purpose to use this tool as a plagiarism
tool since most podcast is created to create a following, around the
presenter's voice.

~~~
Synaesthesia
What I've also realized is its not as bandwidth inefficient as you might
think, the video with a still image is gonna compress down to almost nothing.

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chmaynard
I'm a big fan of podcasting, and I totally rely on iTunes for podcast
discovery, indexing, curation, and syndication. Many Apple critics don't seem
to appreciate this amazing service. Whatever Apple's motive was at the
beginning (probably to promote the sale of iPod and iPhone hardware),
podcasting has taken on a life of its own.

Most of my favorite radio shows are now available as podcasts, including ESPN.
These podcasts are generally available with 24 hours after the first radio
broadcast. Broadcasters generally edit out the commercials that radio
listeners hear. Some broadcasters also insert a few new ads, often at the
beginning or end of a podcast.

Commercial radio broadcasters everywhere have enjoyed a long run of high
profitability, but their business model is under threat now. The tradition of
free podcasting doesn't fly with them. Podcasting as we know it may be over
soon unless we take steps to preserve it.

~~~
chongli
Podcasting may end for traditional broadcasters but it won't end in the
general case. The costs for recording and uploading a podcast are next to nil
and anybody can do it. If traditional broadcasters end up laying off their
talent then you'll likely see many of those people recording independently.

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plorg
For the most part I like how the podcasting environment currently functions,
but I do think that Apple's outsized power leads to some frustrating
practices. I have found many podcasters who only list an iTunes URL. I rarely
if ever use iTunes (as it requires booting my barely-touched Windows VM), and
even with it open it is annoying to find the actual RSS address if it is even
possible. The interface is so bad that I usually resort to using WireShark or
a URL sniffing program to locate the actual feed.

~~~
MaysonL
See if going to overcast.fm, searching, and clicking through works better for
you.

~~~
plorg
That and podbay occasionally do the trick, but not always.

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hammock
I've started a podcast in the last three months that has grown to 25K
listens/month. Our listeners come thru owned social media channels, so I don't
need anything more from Apple other than a publishing platform and listening
app. Amd there are alternatives if Apple fucks that up - such as SoundCloud.

We publish on iTunes through Libsyn as well as SoundCloud. Libsyn and
SoundCloud provide analytics. It's not a paid podcast, but Patreon seems like
one way to achieve that.

As a content creator I can't control what the platforms do. My best strategy
is to diversify.

~~~
tinbucket
What's the podcast? Friends and I have considered starting a podcast and are
always interested to listen to successful new podcasts, as well as get any
tips you might be willing to share on growing an audience.

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rtpg
I get not wanting Apple to manage payments or data analytics.

Wouldn't it be possible for podcasters to add some sort of protocol for paid
podcasts that could be integrated into apps? Like "purchase URL" (or some sort
of stripe-y token or anything).

I also don't really think that giving podcast producers playback data would be
a bad thing. The thing that creeps me out the most about ad cookies on the web
is the cross-domain tracking, but if we're talking about behavioural data for
a podcast just to that producer, sounds like it could be a net benefit.

I feel like this post is mixing concepts (making paid content in podcast form
more viable) with implementation details (Apple doing it). Though it's in
response to the NYT article that does the same thing.

Feel like there's a lack of imagination, and there likely are ways to do
things in a decentralised way

~~~
jsnell
HTTP basic auth is a widely supported and widely used way of doing paid
podcast feeds. Most typically the podcasts apps just require you to enter the
login details in the feed URL, some fancier apps have proper UIs for entering
the username / password. There is very little need to have a fancier protocol
than that.

~~~
rtpg
Good point, but I feel like that's not the entire picture.

One thing to think about with this is to look at what Steam did with indie
games. Valve basically made full-time indie game makers survive by essentially
creating an easily discoverable platform. Nowadays there are a couple extra
platforms (Humble Store, G2G), so it's not a monopoly, but people have been
pretty clear that Steam is the major source of revenue by far.

Do we not want that for podcasting? Being able to pay directly for high-
quality content, but also having the discoverable ecosystem.

If Apple decides to tackle this (they're really close to having this with
iTunes, you can buy old TAL eps or the like), then it's going to be super
closed and basically the app store.

If the golden age of indie games has proven anything, it's that supporting
better discovery would be a net win to the quality of content going out there.
Saying "oh, well we already have this through passworded feeds" is leaving the
door open for a less open solution.

Instead of saying "no because this implementation is stupid", I would much
rather hear Marco offer an alternative that could be open. Though I don't know
his position on paid content, really. Rallying around a more open alternative
is the best way to counter a closed solution.

Right now Apple is the best placed to build good discovery (iTunes already is
that for free content), so somebody needs to step up to the plate if they want
to avoid Apple's content rules becoming the norm.

~~~
madeofpalk
Rather than looking at Steam, look at the App Store.

I don't think anyone wants podcasting to end up like the App Store. This is
the general premise of Marco's article.

~~~
scarface74
Or it could end up like the music store. I've never heard anyone complain
about it being hard to get music published. The same could be said about books
or movies.

~~~
Kadin
> I've never heard anyone complain about it being hard to get music published.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if not... that is
absolutely not what I have ever heard. The iTMS is brutal to independent
artists and getting on it is a huge barrier to entry. It's perhaps an
improvement from the 1990s system of record-label distribution (which perhaps
keeps the complaints to a low volume; Apple can always point to that
particular horror if the plebes get out of line), but it's in no way an open
platform.

Most independent music I listen to tends to be hosted on Soundcloud, largely
as a result of Apple's policies on the iTMS.

~~~
scarface74
An independent artists can use a service like cdbaby as their "label"

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glasz
slightly off topic: just went from ios 8.4 to 9.3. apples podcast app has
become so bad ui-wise. it's now the same crap that is the music app. almost
unusable - especially while driving. somebody at apple needs to bleed for that
shit. forstall and jobs did a better job at this.

~~~
Spooky23
It's also a storage monster. Click "play" without downloading on a big Podcast
like Dan Carlin's Hardcore History (as long as 5 hours!) and you'll quickly
notice that the podcasts app will permanently gobble up that storage as un-
deleteable "Documents and Settings". Once that gets too big backup/restore is
your only option.

~~~
glasz
wtf. really? my goodness.

~~~
sehr
Yep. Same thing happens with the music app too, just reformatted yesterday and
got back 6GB or so

~~~
glasz
holy. and then you have cook, that sucker, selling 16gb phones wanting buyers
to sign up for apple music.

this is some serious shitshow. i'm sorry but i don't have excuses anymore.

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lindig
> Big podcasters also apparently want Apple to insert itself as a financial
> intermediary to allow payment for podcasts within Apple’s app. We’ve seen
> how that goes. Trust me, podcasters, you don’t want that.

Is Marco referring to In-App purchases in apps and how it changed them? Or the
book store, which I would find more compelling?

~~~
sharkjacobs
> We’ve seen how that goes. Trust me, podcasters, you don’t want that.

is a tossed off line referring to the travails of Marco and other developers
who publicly complain about the app store. In particular:

Apple's 30% cut is probably the least significant but definitely not an
insignificant concern.

More important would be the way Apple handles its role as a curator of
content. The App Store doesn't sell every app which is submitted. Apps can be
rejected for quality or for content. Should a podcast be rejected because it
is a low fi unedited recording of two guys hanging out and talking into shitty
microphones? Or because it contains adult content?

Perhaps most importantly is the App Store's notoriously bad relationship with
developers. What qualifies as appropriate "content" and "quality" is not
always clear, and Apple doesn't strictly follow its own guidelines. If your
app is rejected it is basically impossible to appeal and often unclear how it
needs to be changed to be accepted.

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throwaway1231k
How do you make playlist auto play in Overcast? It plays one podcast and
stops. I'm asking it here because the author doesn't reply either in email or
twitter and don't know where else can I post?

~~~
diroussel
When you are playing, hit PLAYBACK in the bottom left, then WHEN EPISONDE
ENDS: PLAY NEXT

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fiatmoney
I would never trust a single podcast provider. Many of the more interesting
podcasts I listen to have been kicked off of one platform or another.

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pbreit
Was there any controversy over Stitcher's downloading, re-processing and
streaming all of the podcasts? Has anyone else tried such a thing?

~~~
drakenot
I believe you need to add your podcast to Stitcher and agree to their terms.

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jrnichols
it's almost as if he's trying to tell us that not everything on the web needs
to have advertisements stuffed into it, and not everything needs data that can
be collected. Good article.

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Philipp__
While Marco seem right at some points, reading this article leaves the
impression that he seems afraid of Apple affecting his business. Which is
perfectly normal, don't know why people seem to bash him because of that.

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equalsnil
Marco seems upset because Apple, to whom he owes his livelihood, is about to
ruin his business. I think he has a much bigger problem than the podcast
producers, who might finally get a larger platform and more attention,
especially if Apple thinks they can turn podcasts into a competitive weapon in
the streaming wars.

Sorry Marco, you chose the wrong centralized OS platform for your vision of a
decentralized podcast future.

~~~
ciconia
Hear hear. Marco is one of the more outspoken developers, at least when it
comes to Apple's broken developer relations, but for all his well-founded
critique he still remains an iOS-exclusive one-man shop.

Is this a choice based on the quality of the Android developer platform, the
Android market realities, or simply a religious devotion to the Apple
ecosystem?

~~~
_frog
I think you're perhaps overthinking it. Is it so hard to imagine that maybe a)
developing his app for multiple platforms requires more development effort
than he alone is capable of and b) he chooses to allocate the effort he can
produce towards the platform that he himself uses and has a preference for?

