
Ask HN: What to do when people are leaving my company every week? - seniordevconfuz
I’m a developer with quite a bit of experience in the field.<p>My company has gone through some hella changes, new owners and we pivoted our product to adapt to the market.<p>Problem
———————-
These past 4 months, people have been resigning faster than we can refill their spots.<p>I’m not sure what to do, on paper things are going well and we have enough redundant staff to pick up the slack. But it&#x27;s not sustainable.<p>Honestly, I&#x27;m a little worried<p>Has any of y’all experienced this?<p>What signs should I be on the lookout for?
======
rossdavidh
Possibilities: 1) they're all leaving for the same place, each one recruiting
the next 2) they know something you don't about the company's future, under
the new ownership 3) the fact of big changes made them look around at where
they were for the first time in a while, and the things that had long been
just annoyances became reasons to leave. 4) they were quietly asked to leave,
but given time to find a new job elsewhere first, on the condition they stay
quiet as well 5) there is always the possibility of random luck

Some of these are more worrisome than others, and it can be hard to know
which. But...the fact that your company has new owners is the most
interesting. Why is that? If you don't know, you should find out, and if you
do know, it should help you guess which of the above scenarios is more or less
likely.

~~~
anotheryou
I'd add: for some reason the pivot made them loose hope in the vision (unclear
communication of new vision, frequent pivots, unattractive idea)

------
codingdave
New owners and a pivoted product means, in effect, that you all got
unwillingly transferred to a new company with new bosses. People are deciding
for themselves if they like the new reality or not, and it is not uncommon to
have an exodus in such situations. It does not necessarily indicate that the
new owners and products have inherent problems, it simply indicates that it is
not what people signed up for.

You have two possible scenarios (in general):

1) The new owners are competent, the pivot was a good move, and the company is
in a good place. If this is the scenario, it could be good for you to be
someone who has been around through the changes, and are now a bigger fish in
a smaller pond.

2) Those things are not true, the owners do not know what they are doing, and
are flailing, still trying to find product/market fit, or have other problems.
In this scenario, leave. They might work out the problems and succeed in the
long run, but it won't be a pleasant ride.

------
taurath
I’ve been in this situation. Frequently it’s because new owners are acting
quickly to turn the culture into what they want rather than what the previous
owners or leadership set up, while trying to fix some perceived problem at the
same time. This often means tearing down what others were trying to build up,
and bringing down a culture that people had bought into. Thus, people leaving.

If this might be the case, then my advice is this - talk to the person as high
up as possible that is making the changes, ask them what they want the future
culture to look like. Then, decide for yourself if you want to work in that
culture, whether you think they can actually get there without it all burning
down, and whether you trust them to not lie to you.

If you want to be a part of that future, then you’re incredibly valuable as
you can help course correct by communicating when things aren’t going in that
direction. It’s great to be in that situation. In either of the other
situations, know that you’re taking on a bunch of risk in terms of your work
life balance, enjoyment of work, and probably sanity while the org you’re in
contorts and buckles. If it’s still worth it, stay. If it’s not worth it, go.

------
cl42
If this is a small enough company (say, <100 people), I suggest bringing this
up with your CEO.

I've dealt with turnover as a CEO and it was stressful and painful for me as
well. Whenever employees would approach me with concerns during such times,
I'd be relieved to (a) know they care about the company, (b) want to do
something to help it rather than quit with everyone else, and (c) trust me
enough to actually discuss + fix things.

... and if you don't feel like you can do that with your CEO, then that's part
of the reason people are quitting.

------
downerending
Generally, turnover is a very bad sign. But _why_ are they leaving? Can you
ask some of them?

If there's nothing really wrong with management, etc., it might actually be in
your favor to stay, faster promotions, maybe a raise, etc.

~~~
seniordevconfuz
Very bad? Really! It was my understanding that companies account for that,
they expect it even, since they make staff replaceable by nature.

In any case, it's a gamble. I fear that if too many people leave none of the
original staff will remain and management will suck.

Good advice, I should ask some of them before they leave.

~~~
downerending
I meant a very bad sign for employees or potential employees when trying to
guess whether it's a good place to work.

I once took a job with FAANG-level pay and realized too late that their annual
turnover was 30%. It was extremely unpleasant to find out that it was that
high for a reason. I left quickly.

~~~
tcbasche
This happened to me and the people interviewing me had left by the time I
started!

------
gwbas1c
> new owners and we pivoted our product to adapt to the market

There you go: A lot of people choose a job because they like the management
and product.

That being said: If you like the job, and generally believe in the company,
it's worth staying. A good job has its ups and downs.

I once took a job in San Francisco where, in the interview, they told me they
were moving in 6 weeks to Menlo Park. Throughout the move, they lost a lot of
people who lived in San Francisco and didn't want to commute to Menlo Park.

This job ended up having high turnover for the first few years because we went
through a few bad managers. I was able to roll with it because I liked the
job; but if I wasn't excited about the product and had better opportunities
elsewhere...

------
kbrannigan
Companies usually go through cycles of turnover. This might be an instance of
that - it's a very normal thing.

However do you notice a lot of senior level people leaving? That could be a
bad sign.

Things are subject to the network effect, if my friends leave, so will I.

------
muzani
Often it's because a lot of them stuck around for each other, so when someone
leaves, the others follow a friend.

It's often caused by conflict in culture. A lot of people often mistake this
for bad management, but very often it can be caused by bad employees too.

I've entered companies that were bleeding employees (they're easy to interview
for, lol).

Some are great. They bled out a lot of the fat and toxins and went on to
become really good companies. Some places became a complete mess.

I think if you don't _feel_ like it's gotten worse, it could just be getting
better.

~~~
JohnFen
> A lot of people often mistake this for bad management, but very often it can
> be caused by bad employees too.

If a company is allowing poisonous employees to remain at the company, that is
bad management in action.

~~~
muzani
It's not just poisonous ones. Sometimes they're just lazy, perfectionist,
incompetent and so on. Large organizations face this problem a lot, where they
scare away talent by not having the right culture.

------
nehagup
According to a recent research these are the few things that makes attrition
rate high : 1\. Political Culture (mostly depends on middle and upper
managers). 2\. Lack of motivation. 3\. No growth and less salary. 4\. No sense
of ownership and flexibility. 5\. People screwing up things for credits.

------
JohnFen
If I were in your shoes, I'd start asking people who are leaving or have left
why they decided to do so.

They may know something about the company that you don't, or the company may
be getting targeted by talent poachers, or any of a thousand other reasons.
You need more information.

~~~
quickthrower2
This sounds good - add them on linked in, go for a coffee outside of work once
they have left.

------
DrNuke
It is your company, though, employees are just working passengers... if the
car you own and drive stutters and moves awkwardly, passengers drop out and
look for a steadier car?

------
sloaken
When someone puts in their notice, have you asked them why?

If you personally know someone who left, go ask them.

They would be a better indicator than those of us on Hacker News.

------
tropo
The change in ownership may have caused stock to vest. That could trigger
departures that had been delayed.

------
animal531
It can be both very negative as well as a case for rapid advancement for
yourself.

------
elfexec
> These past 4 months, people have been resigning faster than we can refill
> their spots.

I'd be asking for a significant raise. Looks like you walked into a short term
supply and demand issue in your favor, not to mention a bunch of freed up cash
for the company. Strike while the iron is hot.

