

ASK NH: What are your thoughts/experiences with 'unlimited vacation days'? - jim_h

I recently got introduced to the concept of 'unlimited vacation days'.  It was a big surprise, but after thinking about it for a while I'm a bit skeptical.  I did some research on it and in particular read an NPR article.  The articles gives a few examples of people taking a few vacations, but they're relatively normal lengths.  Each individual's example were 6 weeks for baby, 1 month vacation, 3 months (after NO vacation for THREE years).  The length of the vacations are not extreme or too out of ordinary considering the situations, especially for the new baby and never having taken a vacation for 3 years.<p>I can see the advantage for someone who currently has 2-3 weeks of vacation to increase to 'unlimited vacation days' and then take 4-5 weeks in a year.  However for people who already have an above average number of vacation days (5 weeks or more), it doesn't seem like an advantage to have 'unlimited' vacation days.  In a field of people all with 'unlimited' days, it seems like you would be an outlier  if you attempted to take more days than the rest.<p>What are your thoughts or experiences with this concept?  Also, how many days have you (or someone you know) actually taken with unlimited vacation days.
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actionbrandon
I'm interning at a trading company which has this policy. It seems to work
well. Most traders want to be at work and trading when the time is right so
they can make money. It's fairly slow over the summer, so lots of
Fridays/Mondays are being taken off right now. Also, everybody is in teams so
they have to coordinate it so that at least one member is always around.

From a business owner standpoint, as long as its self-policing it seems like a
good way to keep people happy. From an employee standpoint I would believe it
to be to truly unlimited in this type of situation. If there aren't teams or
the profit you generate for the company isn't bunched into short periods of
time, I would be leery to just take off for a month + while everybody else is
still working. I think it would result in less vacation being taken since
nobody would want to look lazy like provoost touched on.

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abbasmehdi
This cannot be good! This type of vacation can lead to politics since you’ve
not technically "earned it". It reminds me of a company where there were no
start/end hours for the day, but the politics around those showing up after
nine and/or leaving before five was suffocating and completely unfair (eyes
rolled when the less politically favored came late or left early while those
favored always got away with “there are no set hours”).

People favored will get no push from management for longer or more frequent
vacation while those not that good with sucking up feel pressure when asking
for vacation. Then in your review they might say you took too much vacation
showing lack of interest - nothing good can come out of this. Unwritten rules
= politics.

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jim_h
Yes! That's one of my concern. We're so used to written rules and set limits.
Vacation days are usually defined and typically 'earned'.

If there is a defined number and person A doesn't like that person B has 5
more days, person A can't blame person B and has to talk to the Boss.

However, if there is no defined number and person A takes 5 more days then
maybe person B, D, E might take issue. It's unwritten and undefined, why did
person A take more days..?

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VuongN
Hubspot is doing this. I found it to be very refreshing while working at
Hubspot. It was a very wonderful way to work. "Come in when you want, leave
when you want as long as you get your work done" Your schedule is agreed with
the small team you're in and when you're tired, take as much rest as you want.

I think the touching thing about it, was that the CEO's Brian Halligan and
Dharmesh Shah, were worried that people would forget to take their vacations.

By the way, Hubspot isn't a small company. They're above 200 people now--and
it's working great for them.

I think when I have the opportunity to run an organization, I'll go with the
no vacation policy as well.

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jim_h
If you don't mind me asking, how many vacation days did you take? Or the
average taken in the company/department?

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brianwillis
In New Zealand, holiday pay is accrued by your employer and paid out to you
when you take time off or when your employment ends. This generally means that
when you leave a company you get your unused holiday pay paid out to you in a
lump sum, which can be helpful when looking for a new job.

With unlimited vacation time, I guess you'd have to use it or lose it. I'd
probably be more inclined to take time off during the year than see the
opportunity be wasted. If holiday pay can be saved up it doesn't feel like
there's an opportunity cost to not taking time off.

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sprovoost
The skeptic in me suspects that companies doing this are counting on group
dynamics to bring the actual number of vacation days below the usual number.

I looked around on Google a bit for statistics, but I couldn't find them. I
did find some research that mentions unlimited leave / vacation and they found
that 1% of companies offered it last year, but they don't show how much people
use it. <http://media.npr.org/assets/news/2010/08/11/survey.pdf>

Some articles mention studies showing that productivity has gone up as a
result of such a policy. Again, the skeptic in me wonders how much of that
productivity is due to people taking less holidays. On the other hand, I
rarely trust any metric of productivity anyway.

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noahc
I worked for a company that allowed their 'white collar' workers unlimited
vacations. It wasn't uncommon for people to take six to eight week vacations,
but they almost always were working vacations with cell phone and laptop in
tow.

It worked well for everyone, I think.

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petervandijck
I think it can work well in small, well-bonded teams.

