
One month from concept to $1000 in revenue - BartBoch
https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/week-2-one-month-from-concept-to-1000-revenue-bb7c736b9e
======
niko001
I run IdeaCheck.io [0], a similar service. I appreciate competition, but this
looks like a quickly thrown together MVP without a real product. Have a look
at the graphs on the sample report [1] - it makes zero sense to present this
information as a line chart. What is the significance of the 8 other data
points on the chart that aren't labeled? What kind of metrics are "accuracy"
and "feelings"? "My idea is 50% accurate?"

From the landing page: "Are you opening a burger joint around the corner? Let
us talk to the people from the office building in front of it, your potential
customers!" Sorry, I can guarantee you that's not what you're doing.

IdeaCheck uses a professional panel provider to find respondents. We
negotiated a contract with this provider to provide entrepreneurs with access
to the same class of market research that Fortune 100 companies use. We don't
make any targeting claims that we can't deliver on. Yes, respondents are paid,
but that doesn't incentivize them to be extra nice - they answer multiple
random surveys each day (from different companies doing market research) and
are paid for their time, not their opinion. In general, I like the idea of not
paying respondents and actively searching for a small target niche, but at the
same time you're introducing a non-response bias (you're spamming hundreds of
people to receive 25 survey responses - those who reply aren't an accurate
representation of the target audience)

[0] [https://www.ideacheck.io](https://www.ideacheck.io)

[1]
[https://afteridea.com/app/index.php?id=5b396a5f4eb37](https://afteridea.com/app/index.php?id=5b396a5f4eb37)

~~~
BartBoch
Well, ok. I see you decided to attack me. OK. I am not interested in going
into the fight with you, so I will answer just a few things I think people
would like me to explain.

"My idea is 50% accurate?" \- the question "How accurately do you think this
idea solves the problem?" should explain that.

"Sorry, I can guarantee you that's not what you're doing." \- great, how?

"but at the same time you're introducing a non-response bias" \- so according
to you paying to pretty much-untargeted people to answer questions is better
than getting some of the relevant people to fill out the survey? Interesting.

"you're spamming hundreds of people to receive 25 survey responses" \- it
seems you know things I don't know then. I am not spamming people. I send them
a request if they can fill out the survey to help a company. All of the people
we contacted agreed to be contacted.

Only because you have not managed to figure it out, does not mean other people
haven't. I am OK with running at no profit, for now, to build the brand and
get my name out. You can pretend like paid, barely targeted people are better
than answers from real, targeted, unpaid people. But the reality is, that even
if only certain % of people answer to our call, they are still targeted, and
they beat paid survey takers by a mile.

Very classy of you to post this kind of biased and offensive comment.

~~~
niko001
> Very classy of you to post this kind of biased and offensive comment.

I don't know how my comment was "biased and offensive", I even said I liked
the approach in general? I pointed out factual inaccuracies and things that
don't make sense in your landing page copy and sample report, that's all.

> I am not spamming people. I send them a request if they can fill out the
> survey to help a company. All of the people we contacted agreed to be
> contacted.

I was using "spamming" in the sense of "mass-emailing people". This introduces
a non-response bias.

> the question "How accurately do you think this idea solves the problem?"
> should explain that.

I still don't understand this question. Does a flower shop _accurately_ solve
the need for floral gifts? It's just not a term I would use in this context,
but ok, hopefully your survey respondents will understand what it means :).

> Sorry, I can guarantee you that's not what you're doing." \- great, how?

Let's suppose I place an order for the following idea "I want to open up a
burger food truck next to the AmeriCar Insurance office building in Chappaqua,
NY" \- this is your example on your landing page. No problem, right? Please
don't make promises that you can't keep.

I'm not saying one or the other approach is better - there's definitely a need
for both, I just don't think that you can consistently deliver this. Good
luck!

~~~
csallen
> I don't know how my comment was "biased and offensive"

Mmm, imagine someone in real life presents their project to you and the first
thing you say to them is that it "looks like a quickly thrown together MVP
without a real product" and that their graphs "makes zero sense." Really
imagine saying that to someone out loud.

Could you really blame them for being offended? Just because we're on HN
doesn't mean we cease to be humans with feelings.

------
cryptozeus
Hi good idea? I would like to put my product through this but 1 thing concerns
me. How do i know you actually asked the users ? If everyone is anonymous then
how can you guarantee this ?

Thanks

~~~
BartBoch
Well, I know this is a trust issue with all the research companies. The answer
is comments - you can figure if the users are real by checking comments
submitted by them. They are usually pretty specific and helpful.

~~~
zormino
So now a core part of the service needs to be continually vetted by the
customer?

~~~
moorhosj
This seems like a criticism that could be used against almost all products. I
continually vet my grocery store's products by ingesting them.

~~~
shashanoid
Skin In The Game

------
1k
How do you qualify candidates as being the target audience, and what happens
if it’s a really small, hard-to-reach niche - how do you guarantee the number
of respondents?

~~~
jajern
To add onto this, how much manual intervention is required in creating the
list and contacting them? I feel like there's a reason the competition costs
so much more. Seems like, even with "AI" involved, there would be quite a bit
of leg work.

~~~
BartBoch
There is some, to be honest. I am running at $0 profit (as per my report). I
have got a nice discount for leads (I am categorized as a research project
since I strip all the personal data). This gives me the ability to run this.
There is some time required for each order and there will be no way this could
be 100% hands-off project.

There is no low cost option like ours because of two reasons:

1) There is barely any competition, so companies just use that to hike up
prices.

2) They provide the leads that answered the survey, so they cannot be
categorized as a research project. This makes those leads cost 5-10 times what
I pay.

~~~
jajern
OK, that makes sense. I'm sure you've thought of this, but you are inline with
your lead generators terms of service by charging for your product? I'd hate
to see you get in trouble since you are getting some social traction here.

~~~
BartBoch
Yes, that is allowed. I can sell results, not actual data. No risk for me
whatsoever as long as I make sure no personal data of leads is given to the
end customer.

~~~
jajern
Great, sounds like you found a perfect product for your use case.

------
Oras
Sorry not trying to be negative but how do I know who those people are
"experts" and "leaders"? The reason I am asking is in the FAQ page you
mentioned: `Unlike our competition we do not pay them to answer surveys, so
they are unbiased and will answer honestly` How do you get people to invest
time to answer questions without anything back? I take it some people would
like to help but how sustainable is this model?

~~~
BartBoch
Not negative at all Oras. I understand there is a lot of questions that might
need answering.

This is a research project - as such, the results are stripped of the personal
data of responders.

You can often see that influencers are people high in the social ranks by
reading their comments. Not always, but often they will give invaluable
information. One that would be unseen from a regular member of the niche.

How do I get people? Well, I simply text them in a nice way. Explain that we
are a small consulting firm that is helping this business to enter the market.
And that his input would be invaluable. We contact rather a large number of
leads to get guaranteed minimum responses.

~~~
Kagerjay
What benefits do the reviewers get? Do they get a financial incentive or just
because its something they might enjoy doing?

you said you get input. In the form of linkedin, emails, text, etc? Do you
just copy paste the responses in, or do you automate this process entirely?

I had to do a review for my friends company who would fit in this category as
well. It was part of the entreprenurship program at his university. He asked
me 20 questions in my domain expertise in youtube / twitch and I gave one hour
worth of answers. He asked 40 other people who had video experience as well in
that domain

He said the insight was much more valuable than just text feedback he's gotten
in the past.

Do you see video feedback as a thing, or even vocal, or do you prefer
anonymizing to text only?

~~~
BartBoch
> What benefits do the reviewers get? Do they get a financial incentive or
> just because its something they might enjoy doing?

Enjoy doing/being helpful.

>you said you get input. In the form of linkedin, emails, text, etc? Do you
just copy paste the responses in, or do you automate this process entirely?

Using text messages to direct potential responders to the quick survey.

>He said the insight was much more valuable than just text feedback he's
gotten in the past. > >Do you see video feedback as a thing, or even vocal, or
do you prefer anonymizing to text only?

No, not video feedback. There are companies doing the video feedback and
usually, the pricing starts at around $10/review, so considerably more
expensive.

------
tokyoSurfer
Good job, cool that you are sharing!

~~~
neolefty
Yes! I have an idea I want to put through it. Thank you!

~~~
BartBoch
Sounds good! I am manning the chat if you have any questions! (I am the owner)

------
Invictus0
Cool idea and product but this strikes me as a horrible product for an
entrepreneur to use. If I was the entrepreneur looking to open the cake shop
or burger joint or whatever, why would I pay you to ask random people their
opinion when I could just stand on the corner and do it myself? You have an
enormous loss of information here as well; I get none of the nonverbal and
facial communication that I would get from an in person interaction. This just
strikes me as lazy entrepreneurship.

~~~
coffee
So here's how I see this (and what I believe you're missing)...

There may be 200 things you MUST do when you open a cake shop or burger joint.
This being one of them.

Having a service available, for a reasonable price, to help you take one of
those 200 items off your plate is a value add, allowing you to focus on other
areas of your business.

Further, yes, you can miss out on nonverbal and facial communication. But, you
also get an honest answer. Most people don't want to give negative feedback
face-to-face, and will lie just to avoid it.

Calling this lazy is, well, a bit harsh. It adds value.

~~~
Invictus0
I don't see this as just another thing; this is an existential question for
the business. Moreover, this is something you undertake in the planning phase.
You should not be filing paperwork and buying shit before you even start your
research/customer interviews.

Plus, how can you really trust these results unless you did the research
yourself? Are you going to base your entire business thesis on the results of
a $300 survey? What do these results even mean, relatively speaking? I feel
like speaking to customers is too important to contract away.

~~~
BartBoch
I think we should not generalize in any way this. There are people that need
this, and there are people that don't need this. As simple as that.

Most of my customers are startup owners, where they need another form of
validation before they will spend few months and their savings on a project.

------
coffee
This looks like a fantastic service and it's really great that you are being
open/public about your progress. Well done!

I suppose being open also opens you up to attacks from your competitors. Sorry
to see that.

I could definitely use a service like this and most of the questions asked
(and that you've answered) so far have addressed my own.

~~~
BartBoch
Thank you. It has been a tough day, but a constructive one indeed.

------
nlowell
Do the respondents know they are responding anonymously to the primary service
or is that not the case? For some surveys users will respond differently based
on whether or not they feel anonymous.

~~~
BartBoch
Yes, they are ensured that they answer anonymously.

------
heinrichf
Can someone provide insight on how this works ? The author is buying leads in
the desired area from an external company (which one?), and sending these
people survey to complete (for free?) ?

~~~
BartBoch
I cannot mention the company I am using (NDA), but you can find those
companies if you dig a little. There is much more than one.

I ask them politely to fill the quick survey (answers are submitted by
clicking buttons rather than writing) and then an option to add a comment. A
person can quickly fill it within 2 minutes.

Note, that only certain % of people contacted will fill out the survey.

------
pmoriarty
As a customer, how would I know that the data you provide is not fake?

~~~
BartBoch
This is a research project, so there is a certain amount of trust required.
Also with most reports, you get very specific comments as well. Suggestions,
critique, insider information. This can give you an idea of how targeted is
the audience.

------
al_ramich
That is pretty awesome, well done. Great idea as well and that has to be some
sort of record from nothing to some revenue in a few weeks...

~~~
BartBoch
Thank you. I have found an untapped niche and took a bet. Only companies in
this market, that are doing it in an unbiased way (they do not pay responders
to answer the surveys) are the ones that charge $2K upwards per survey. There
are no providers for SMB's and startups!

And surely not a record, IndieHackers is full of stories like that! Still, I
am really proud and happy of how it is going.

~~~
al_ramich
Great, are you on Twitter? happy to mention you

~~~
BartBoch
Yes, yes, yes. MrBartBoch :)

~~~
al_ramich
sure, have shared. good luck.

------
kirykl
Just to inform, your shared cloudflare cert is blocked where I work. Probably
want to move it to at least domain dedicated

~~~
BartBoch
Good to know, thank you!

