

Infringement of 9Gag's trademark [pdf] - yemyat91
http://9gagforandroid.com/infringement.pdf

======
avolcano
So, naming the site "9GAG for Android" was asking for trouble. That's a clear-
cut trademark issue, even if the app itself was named "Nine."

Content ownership is a little murkier, of course, because 9GAG is a company
that thrives off stealing and rebranding the content of others. There's also
no reason they couldn't have played ball - there's lots of alternative mobile
clients for sites like Reddit and Hacker News because they create a healthier
community and fill a niche that the creators of those sites can't fulfill.
Still, if 9GAG decided they wanted the ad revenue this app would deprive them
of, I can't really fault them.

(though, to be clear, I still totally fault them for being a shitty company
that steals content!)

~~~
ruqqq
Hey, I'm the creator of the app.

I can't deny the website domain is asking for trouble. Truthfully, I wouldn't
mind taking it down, it's just a marketing stunt anyway because back then,
they haven't have an official Android app.

What irks me is that they refuse to work together _at all_, and worst, their
Android app is not up to standard.

But well, now that it has come to this, I will pivot to another service which
has a healthier devs and community.

~~~
nemothekid
I'm not a fan on 9gag, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to work
with you. There are many issues with just having some random guy - despite how
good natured he is - in charge of your company's official app.

~~~
ihuman
He's not in charge of the official app. He made a 9gag app, and then 9gag made
their own after it. Now 9gag wants him to stop development.

~~~
itafroma
They're asking ruqqq to stop infringing on their trademark and copyright, not
necessarily stop development.

The trademark issue is likely resolvable by removing the "9GAG for Android"
tagline and any other implied or expressed official connection to 9GAG that
might appear in the app, website, or other marketing materials.

What they're referring to with regards to the copyright violation is a little
more complex: are they referring to the user-supplied content? Did ruqqq use
9GAG creative in the app? Something else? If it's anything other than the
user-supplied content, which 9GAG doesn't have a copyright on anyway, that
should be relatively straightforward to resolve, as well.

But GP is referring to ruqqq's implied offer to make Nine the official 9GAG
app (at least in some capacity), not that ruqqq actually is, at this moment,
in charge.

~~~
ruqqq
The email clearly states "using our trademark and CONTENT". That's what the
email is for. Furthermore, their TOS is worded to be confusing (at least it is
to me): <http://9gag.com/tos>

Anyhow, I'm not going to make this into im-a-bitter-dev commotion. Some here
even state that it's not the users I'm worried about because if I am, then I
can just direct them to the official app.

My real concern is that my app existed before 9GAG's, and although 90% of my
users are using it free, there are some who appreciate the work I put into
making a nice-to-use app and bought the "Pro" version. These are the people I
would NOT want to disappoint. I'm still weighing solutions and brainstorming
on how to make their dollar spent worth it. But for now, I've removed 9GAG
references in the Play Store listings.

~~~
itafroma
Their TOS does not claim ownership over user-supplied content; see section 2,
"All materials displayed or performed on the Site[...](other than Content
posted by Subscriber (“Subscriber Content”)) are the property of 9GAG,
Inc[...]" and section 3, "Subscriber shall own all Subscriber Content that
Subscriber contributes to the Site[...]".

The letter does claim that you are using their content, but the use of which
infringes on their trademark and copyright. Your use of the user-submitted
content would not infringe on their copyright: users were never asked to
assign copyright to 9GAG, and in most cases, would not be able to as they were
not the original copyright holders to begin with.

If there was a fundamental copyright problem (i.e., the entire basis of your
app is copyright infringement due to an ownership claim on all the user-
supplied content) and they wanted to shut your app down, they could've just
issued a run-of-the-mill DMCA takedown notice to Google. That they didn't
seems, to me, that they are fine with your app as long as you remove the
infringing elements.

If you were interested in keeping Nine around without fear of 9GAG taking
additional action, I'd ask them what content, exactly, infringes on their
copyright and have them enumerate what you need to remove. It may be something
relatively straightforward, like certain assets or logos that you may be using
in your app.

------
hayksaakian
Ironic that a site that runs on borrowed content is suddenly appalled that
someone else borrows their content.

~~~
ben1040
I had never even heard of 9Gag before until now. It definitely looks like this
decade's iteration of eBaum's World, except instead of "borrowing" Flash games
from their original creators, it's skimming images from Reddit.

~~~
sharkweek
fun tidbit -- it's actually a YC alum S12 -- I can't stand what they do, but I
suppose it's probably on track to make decent money

------
arbus
A reddit post from awhile ago explains pretty accurately how 9gag gets all
their "content"
[http://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/zacju/9gag_repost_mac...](http://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/zacju/9gag_repost_machine_explained/)

~~~
afhof
Don't read too seriously into that, as most users of 4chan are loathe to use
reddit (and strongly consider reddit to do the same thing that 9gag does).

------
dimka
9Gag quite often is virtually stealing images from all over the world. But
technically they have an upper hand. I think you should just create your own
project similar to theirs and direct your users to it, changing the name and
complying with their request.

------
DannyBee
All the letter is missing is a "via 9gag.com" watermark added to it (well, i
guess someone would have to post it to reddit first)

Interestingly, the only actual 9gag trademark i can find is for a character
mark that was registered 2 days ago.

~~~
Kudos
A mark becomes a trademark simply by its use in trade, registering a trademark
just gives you stronger legal grounds.

~~~
DannyBee
Yes, i'm a registered patent/trademark attorney, so i'm familiar with the law
:) I'm just surprised, usually they don't go issuing letters until they have
something substantial registered.

------
stormen
I don't see -what- they accuse you of stealing.

The content? It's not theirs.

The name? NINE is too generic to have an association to "9GAG".

What else do you use? You named the site "9GAG for Android", which was risky.
Change that, and then ask them - in writing - to inform you which other legal
issues they see with your app.

Again, they don't own the content. They could prevent you from scraping their
content, and/or revoke your API license, and/or claim that your scraping was
in conflict with their TOS, but again, ask them what the issue is.

------
darkxanthos
Nah. You crossed a line. You leveraged their brand to build your app's user
base and then you essentially say "Let's make a deal." And act appalled when
they have a bad taste in their mouth? That's a dick move.

Like the letter said if you're truly just worried for your users redirect them
to 9gag's app, but the problem is that's not your real concern apparently.

------
signed0
Seems like they are saying "Take down your app or we will complain to Google
and have them take it down". If this is the case, what is the harm in leaving
it in the Play Store and forcing them to jump through hoops?

If they do get it taken out of the Play Store, you could always provide the
.apk for people to download.

~~~
ruqqq
True enough. But they can always send a legal time my way at the same time. As
an indie developer, ain't nobody got time for that..

~~~
signed0
In that case you could open source it and let people build their own apk.

------
logn
Nein gag.

These apps actually are annoying. The name should indicate they're not
official. All of these apps harvest some user data and (whether deserved or
not) I trust it to the name brand more than a random developer.

Anyhow it seems like they had a reasonable exchange. I loved how after the
threatening legal letter the co-founder's email has a link to his funny
collection!

Edit: but I do appreciate the developer filling a need that wasn't met. I
think I probably have this app installed actually. Anyhow, it's never fun to
sift through multiple, similar looking apps.

------
reion
I did like how you were trying to handle the situation, it was really
reasonable to try work something out. I am sad about their response to you,
make me loss faith and proves that once they were successful, they just
stopped caring. I would suggest you trying sending an other email with same
approach to someone else higher up in company. From what i get Ray is guy in
legal department, we don't know if he cares about user base and if he
forwarded the email to someone else before he decided to deny you a way out.

------
joezhou
As a dev, I feel really really sympathetic towards your situation. However,
it's the reality of the business. I've written things that leverage certain
APIs and ended up getting replaced by "the official version." Yes, our apps
bring traffic to their site, but it's also a two way street. By leveraging
APIs, we are taking advantage of their users and infrastructures. So yeah, it
sucks that it ended, but at least it was fun (hopefully profitable) while it
lasted. Move on bro!

------
iagomr
Even though you might not live in the US, I think you should change the name
and visuals to avoid any possible shitstorm in your way. If there is really a
market for you, maybe you should disassociate now from 9GAG and create your
own product and serve users with your own concept. Find a way to deliver
relevant content to your users, and maybe in 2 years you'll be bigger than
9GAG :)

~~~
serf
What are you even saying? I doubt the developer himself has a market(Hell, the
only time I can think of when someone says "Oh, i'm buying it because of so
and so." it's either John Carmack or Will Wright.), and if he abandons the app
the market you're referring to disappears. Why would it be assumed that the
maker of an application that piggybacks itself off of a non-owned mother site
would find a way to deliver content to his users? Be realistic. The guy makes
an app that parses out a website. Now for the "I'm no lawyer.." . Change the
site URL and defend the app. You filled a niche, apparently still do, and
'Nine' is ambiguous as hell.

------
barredo
> 9GAG is the world's leading community for funny content.

That statement may be false, but that's indeed, a funny phrase.

------
teashorts
I didn't realize anyone actually cared about 9gag and their "content".

------
xkcdfanboy
I'd say you should keep the app up and change some of the names. You did them
a huge favor by creating an app and they give you some contrived robotic
response? Fuck them. They thrive on stolen content anyhow, it's not like they
have much of a leg to stand on.

