
Links between coffee and health - kercker
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/09/how-coffee-loves-us-back/
======
Fede_V
This is a difficult topic to study properly, because:

\- Coffee consumption is not uniform throughout the population. For example,
I'm willing to wager that people that eat a lot of truffles and Beluga caviar
are among the healthiest and longest living people in the world. Anyone care
to wager why?

\- Long term controlled studies on human subjects are tricky. Can you imagine
taking 100 people at random (not volunteers!) and forcing half to drink
coffee, and half not to drink coffee for 30 years?

\- Plausible mechanisms are always incredibly easy to postulate since we still
have lots of things we do not understand about the human metabolism.

Unless the effect is very, very strong, observational studies are going to be
rife with false positives and spurious correlations due to Simpson's paradox.
Ignore this awful article, and almost all dietary advice in this vein.

~~~
reader5000
These are fine points, but if we factor in the probability that researchers
carrying out these studies took them into account, we don't need to ignore
"almost all dietary advice in this vein."

~~~
Fede_V
I would agree with this if researchers were not under insane pressure to
produce findings (as opposed to understanding).

If a researcher designs a great experiment, but after collecting and analyzing
all the data comes to the conclusion that there is no link between eating
chocolate and health, then she will a horrible time publishing it in a
respected science journal, even if that's what the data says.

~~~
lloyd-christmas
I strongly disagree. The vast majority of published articles I stumble across
conclude with "we didn't find anything". They are published in journals, but
almost never make it into The Times. I'm definitely not saying research
pressure doesn't exist or doesn't have an impact on research quality, but I
think selection bias is hard at work here.

~~~
avani
"We didn't find anything" is fine for a random journal (there is a saying in
academia that everything gets published eventually), but that's not going to
get you into Cell, Nature, or Science, or a similarly top-tier venue. That's
where the stress lies, and why negative results are pointedly lacking in the
literature.

------
ricw
From wikipedia's caffeine article: "Caffeine can increase blood pressure and
cause vasoconstriction.[37][38][39] Long term consumption at sufficiently high
doses has been associated with chronic arterial stiffness.[39] Coffee and
caffeine can affect gastrointestinal motility and gastric acid
secretion.[40][41][42]

Caffeine increases basal metabolic rate in adults.[43][44][45] In
postmenopausal women, high caffeine consumption can accelerate bone
loss.[46][47]"

I wonder how partial this article and/or harvards caffeine research is..

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Side_effects](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Side_effects)

~~~
davidcollantes
Yet, my grandfather and his friends drank it--coffee--their entire lives, and
they all died in their late 90s. A few of them also smoked.

We all know it is a combination of things: the food you eat, how active you
are, the air you breathe, the work you do, etc.

~~~
axx
I agree. If you eat Mc Donald's all day, but drink X cups of coffee, it
wouldn't make a difference.

~~~
dghughes
A hamburger made at home is no better than McDonald's if you eat them every
day too McDonald's is just a restaurant no the Devil.

~~~
scorpioxy
I disagree. A hamburger you make at home is unlikely to contain the crap that
is in a McDonald's burger. If you get actual meat, add a few veggies and a
whole wheat bun then a burger can become an excellent meal.

It's even better if you skip the fries.

~~~
svensken
I'd trust McDonald's buns and meat to contain LESS preservatives and other
bizarre compounds than a pack of burger bread and patties that I'd pick up at
my local grocery store. The main reason is that McDonald's is a well-oiled
supply-chain machine with (probably) low storage durations for the various
ingredients, whereas consumer grocery products can suffer weeks on a store
shelf before purchase. The second reason (also just speculation) is that the
intensity of regulatory agencies' scrutiny of McDonald's ingredients
(especially with regard to meat) would dwarf that of the small packages I
would be able to buy for a barbeque.

I believe in staying away from foods high in lipids in general, but fast food
burgers don't scare me. It's fries and pizzas that I abhor.

~~~
scorpioxy
I wasn't talking about store bought burgers. They may or may not be as bad as
a McDonald's burger. Get the meat, add some spices(and maybe Worcester sauce)
and you'll have your own delicious patty. The whole thing takes around 15 mins
and you can customize any part of the process.

However, I agree with your point that there are healthier food options out
there if you have the choice.

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vjvj
To me this reads like a sponsored article/advert. The research wreaks of the
type that is sponsored by a corporate/brand who would benefit from improved
public perception of coffee.

~~~
ekianjo
Oh so you have some good sources about negative literature about coffee?
because I'd certainly like to see some if you are knowledgeable about that.

I don't see why "drinking coffee is good" is any more controversial than
"eating fruits is good". When people talk about the benefits of fruit juices
do you accuse them of sponsorship ?

~~~
h152190
That's a bad examples. Whole fruits are obviously healthier. but juices have
almost as much sugar as coke because they are so concentrated and lack fiber
which is actually what makes fruits so healthy in the first place.

~~~
ekianjo
Well if you dont want to talk about fruit, then talk about Tea. There's about
zero debate about tea being not healthy, and I don't see massive differences
between a tea-based drink and a coffee based drink - they actually have lots
of commonalities.

~~~
nkozyra
"Healthy" is such an abstract concept that it's really not a useful metric,
though.

Even if we say "healthy" means a prevention of disease and/or a longer
lifespan, tea still needs the "in moderation" addendum. Fluorosis is common
among people who drink large quantities of certain types of green tea, for
example, and fruit juice could obviously contribute to diabetes. Having one
alcoholic drink a night has a lot of measured benefit that disappears when you
pass 2 drinks.

In other words, "healthy" (as defined above) is not an attribute of just the
substance but also the quantity and duration and a bunch of other important
things.

Which is why "_____ is good for you!" can be generally discarded as standalone
advice.

~~~
_of
> and fruit juice could obviously contribute to diabetes

not only that, Steve Jobs' obsession with fruit juices has been speculated to
have caused or contributed to his pancreas cancer _.

_ [http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/soy-
alert/veganthi...](http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/soy-
alert/veganthink-dr-john-mcdougall-explains-the-death-of-steve-jobs/)

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reedlaw
The video and research highlights imply that 2 or more cups a day is more
beneficial but personally I feel the dependency created by such large amounts
of caffeine would outweigh the benefits. Even at one cup a day an interruption
such as travel causes withdrawal symptoms such as headaches. That means you'd
have to always bring coffee with you or stay within easy reach of a cafe. Not
much fun when your travel or activities don't include daily time out for
coffee.

~~~
snogglethorpe
That seems a bit overwrought.... In my experience (and anecdotally from
friends), the withdrawal symptoms are real, but not particularly severe.

For me it's just very mild (as in I barely notice) headaches and a vague
under-the-weather feeling; to others I probably seem a bit grumpy. After a day
or two of abstaining, the symptoms disappear.

Sure, it's vaguely annoying, but nothing more. When I travel or something and
end up not drinking coffee for a while, it's simply not an issue.

~~~
sudoherethere
For me symptom were extremely severe over several weeks. In end, I could quit
coffee for good.

Recently, I had some stomach troubles and doctor told me to cutback or
completely stop drinking coffee to help stomach heal.

I decided to go cold turkey. Figured it would speed up recovery. A bad
mistake. Headaches and irritation was easy to control and disappeared within
couple of days. But my body is so dependent on caffeine. I had constipation, I
could not motivate myself to go workout in evenings, I felt the world was
moving at different pace than me. I just felt all sorts of wrong and I keep on
thinking it was just a pace it pass soon.

Finally, I could not take it. Went back to drinking as much coffee as I
needand life is great now.

------
buffoon
_“That first cup of coffee in the morning is happiness.” Chopra said. “It’s a
real joy.”_

That's what I thought. The I went through a rough patch with no money as a
student and couldn't afford it. The first two weeks taught me that it was
actually a monkey on my back. I can't think of a better term but I felt like
boiled shit.

I only drink water now.

~~~
douche
How poor do you have to be that you can't afford coffee? Maybe not the $5 a
cup starbucks bullshitaccino, but you can get a cheap electric drip pot and a
month's worth of grounds for $20.

~~~
cozzyd
You don't even need the drip pot, you can always make it on the stove like my
grandparents...

~~~
Mz
Of course, that presumes they either have skillz or some willingness and
ability to get them. These days, a lot of people seem dependent upon microwave
meals and fast food.

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DanBC
The cochrane collaboration have a nice document about what we know about
caffeine and health.

[http://www.evidentlycochrane.net/caffeine-and-health-
evidenc...](http://www.evidentlycochrane.net/caffeine-and-health-evidence-
from-cochrane/)

It's a short list.

------
mirimir
> A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems.

Said by Alfréd Rényi about his friend Paul Erdos.

~~~
happyscrappy
Erdos was on serious high test, Benzedrine. He quit for a while but said his
math suffered too much.

~~~
mirimir
Yes, I saw that too. But amphetamines have some nasty side effects.

Methamphetamine was the standard military "go pill" for decades. Then
dextroamphetamine. Now there's interest in modafinil, which has milder side
effects.[0,1]

[0]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22764609](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22764609)

[1] [http://goflightmedicine.com/stimulants-sleep-
aids/](http://goflightmedicine.com/stimulants-sleep-aids/)

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kaitai
It seems that some people use coffee as, say, a stimulant to try to deal with
ADHD. I wonder how much this self-medication impacts the results. Perhaps
unusually, I recently did a little self-inventory and decided to consciously
up my coffee consumption. At this point it seems to have a good effect on my
ability to concentrate, and I could see this improving other health outcomes
as it increases follow-through on exercise etc. (Caffeine may also reduce DOMS
symptoms, again allowing for more exercise.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24164961](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24164961))

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peter303
Algorithm: studies published in even number months say coffee is good for you.
Odd number, bad for you.

------
hippo8
I love coffee, I drink atleast 2 cups a day, I love hearing that coffee is
good for me, but it still makes me wonder if any of this information about
coffee is misinformation. After all, doctors and scientists are human.. for
instance,
[http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2008/smoking/smoking...](http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2008/smoking/smoking_01.jpg)

~~~
ekianjo
Doctors tend to be actually heavy smokers, from my experience. I have talked
about this with a couple of them and they say that it helps them facing the
stress of their everyday duties - even though they are aware of the health
risks.

~~~
mrestko
In the U.S. at least, doctors smoke at a _much_ lower rate than the general
population. It might be that they stand-out more when smoking if you know that
they are physicians.

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cryoshon
This is a pretty interesting article, and there's been a lot of positive
research regarding coffee consumption in the past few years. I am a coffee
fanatic, and hope that my three cups a day will lead me to a longer life.

I have a lot of ideas for future directions of study regarding coffee: my
primary interest is teasing the health impacts of espresso beans vs regular
beans in varying roast states, if there are any such differences.
Additionally, I wonder if there's any studies on the social impact of coffee
consumption. I take most of my coffee alone, but I used to have a raucous
coffee group a few years back, and it's well understood that social
interaction is good for your health. I also wonder if there's any studies
which examine the rates and contexts/reasons that people in different
professions consume coffee. All of the lawyers/scientists/doctors/software
engineers I know tend to always have a cup in hand-- especially the doctors.

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karmakaze
> repeatedly that none of the patients with liver ailments drank coffee

I did a time-management course, a part of which required writing down how I
spend my work hours. I saw an hourly cycle of get coffee, work 1 hour, pee,
repeat. If i was drinking enough water to pee hourly my liver may also be
great!

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freshfey
I love tea and coffee, albeit tea more which is why I created a tea blend
(disclaimer: I run actiontea.com).

Seeing studies and science like this makes me wonder though. People do know
that coffee and tea is healthy for them, so why use it still in advertisment?

Smoking is bad for people, yet people do not need convincing to continue
consumption.

Is it an additional argument for you when you're buying coffee or tea, that
it's healthy for you?

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jhallenworld
Surprised they don't mentioned anxiety. I cut back on caffeine because I seem
to get anxiety for no reason when I have too much.

I started to drink more tea, but annoyingly I have kidney stones and tea has a
lot of oxalate. No such problem with coffee.

~~~
Raphmedia
You can use coffee topically.

~~~
brewdad
It is advisable to let it cool first though. :)

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INTPnerd
Coffee is addictive, takes time to make and consume, and costs money. Even if
you make it cheaply at home, this is still money and time you would not need
to spend if you were not addicted to it. The more often you drink it, the more
you need to drink it every day in order to feel normal. You get to the point
to where you need to make it a part of your morning routine. Our lives are
complicated enough without it. What happens when you have one of those
mornings where you simply don't have time to make coffee? You have to buy some
somewhere, which is even more time consuming and expensive and typically
creates temptation to buy a less healthy coffee. Coffee is acidic. It kills
the good bacteria in your gut, which goes against the very core of taking care
of your health. Because it quickly gives you an energy jolt, it is an
addictive drug. Any time you introduce a drug like that into your body, your
body adjusts to it. Whatever body function was necessary to achieve the affect
the drug does for you starts doing less work, which always has bad side
effects because it goes against how your body is designed. Caffeine
consumption negatively affects your sleep, which is another key to health.
Most people feel that as long as they don't consume it too late in the
afternoon, it does not affect their sleep. But what happens when you regularly
consume an addictive drug that gives you an energy jolt? Over time you need
more and more of it to feel normal. Eventually you will need at least a small
amount of it in the afternoon in order to not feel exhausted and be able to
continue to be a productive, happy person into the late afternoon and evening.
If want to, go ahead and believe these studies conducted by people you don't
know, who haven't earned your trust. Believe that they conducted it in an
intelligent and controlled way. Believe that they interpreted the results
correctly. Believe that it is totally impossible that someone paid someone to
get the results they wanted to publish. Or you can become in tune with your
own body and reason about experiences you have had and will have.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Fortunately its relatively cheap, universally available, and extremely
effective. It could be considered the best, simplest performance drug
possible.

As for emotional arguments about 'going against your body' that's religion.
Your body was designed to resist constant parasitic infestation, never be
washed and exercise hard every day, all day. Who wants to live that way? You
could consider 3 meals a day as 'going against your body'.

~~~
michaelborromeo
The problem is we when live less and less in the way our bodies were designed.

For example, we were built to receive all sorts of positive side effects from
exercise. If you don't exercise at all you lose those benefits. It's doable --
many people don't exercise -- but it's a loss to be sure.

Another example, using your three meals... We were not built to be eating as
much as most of us do as consistently as we do. Take one look around you and
see how many people are headed in the direction of obesity.

When you combine the eating and the exercise you get a deadly combination.

And there are other examples of "going against the grain," which when taken
individually are not hugely detrimental but when you add them up they are
harmful.

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jdlyga
In other news, 4 out of 5 doctors agree that smoking Camel cigarettes is good
for the throat!

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SimeVidas
Define “cup”. How many grams of ground coffee is that?

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brianbarker
Coffee is awesome. If you don't love it and appreciate a good brew, you're
missing out on life.

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bholdr
Correlation doesn't mean causation.

