
In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost - koolba
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-homeless-asians-20180401-story.html
======
mirkules
This really is a regional problem. I live around the area, near the beautiful
Santa Ana trail which connects two counties to the ocean. A few months ago, I
rode down the 40-mile stretch for the first time in a long time, and I was
absolutely shocked to see the extent of the tent city near the Anaheim Angels
stadium. The people living there were living on hard times, it felt post-
apocalyptic in some sense. The tent area spanned for a couple of miles - there
was garbage everywhere, people washing the clothes on the trail, people
urinating on the side, and some wondering around in a zombie-like state I can
only assume was either mental illness or drug abuse.

Finally, officials decided to close the trail to do a clean-up. There was
about 400 tons of trash, 14,000 needles and 5,000 lbs of "waste" removed.
[http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/04/07/santa-ana-river-
tr...](http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/04/07/santa-ana-river-trail-
reopens/)

Honestly, I can't blame Irvine for not wanting this in their backyard. But
unfortunately, as the people were getting evicted from these makeshift cities,
they are setting up the tents in other neighboring cities. There is a small
area near where I live now too.

I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. All I can tell you is
that it was not a good feeling, both from a humanitarian and safety point of
view, i.e. I felt awful for the people living in this, but also uneasy around
it.

~~~
TomK32
> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it.

The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and
make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their
homelessness.

Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world
follow?

~~~
stmfreak
Most of these people had homes and jobs once, but prefer drugs and alcohol
over the rules and expectations of those who provided said homes and jobs.

Homelessness is not a sudden condition, it is the result of thousands of
choices to indulge in selfish behavior. Inflicting family oriented communities
with shelters for these people is the wrong approach. We need to provided a
path out of homelessness that enforces sobriety, sets behavioral expectations,
and demands they get jobs. Sadly, such shelters exist and yet most prefer to
stay drunk on the streets.

~~~
olliej
For instance it could be the result of ptsd from being in Iraq. Or Vietnam. Or
Afghanistan. Where is the support for veterans?

It could be mental health - if you can’t afford healthcare you may not be able
keep a job. Once you don’t have a job you very quickly end up homeless. Now
you don’t have a home, how do you possibly get treatment or a job? Eventually
you are arrested and go to jail, where you can get treatment but now you’re an
excon so can’t get a job so end up homeless without treatment.

You were kicked out of your home when you came out as a teenager - you’re
homeless, may not have even finished school, and many jobs these days have
minimum age rules. So now you’re stuck unless you’re one of the lucky few who
manages to get support and a home before drugs and alcohol become the only
“escape”

Same as above but you’re a kid abused by a family member, foster family, ...

Note how all of these paths eventually put you in a position where you cannot
escape homelessness. You cannot get healthcare or a job without somewhere to
live unless you’re very lucky.

So instead you end up cycling through prison, which in just a small amount of
time costs much more than covering the cost of housing in the first place.

------
NedIsakoff
I'm Asian/Canadian (arrived in Canada in 1988 at 8) and have worked in the US
since 2009. I consider myself a 0.5 generation immigrant.

Talking my parents, other first generation immigrants, and even some second
generation etc. They do have a common view. If we came here with very little
(my parents arrived with $200 in their pockets), worked hard, and eventually
became successful then why can't other people do the same. These people had
much easier start then us (they didn't coming here at mid 40s with $200 in
total) and had better opportunities. Most of them see people collecting
welfare we leeches off them (and the taxes they pay).

~~~
azinman2
Drug addiction, mental illness, little education / scaffolding, no family
support, etc.

Their view that if they did it why can’t others is the same as the libertarian
/ rich people perspective of “I got mine, you should be able to get yours.”
Except not all people are the same, not all people have the same abilities,
support, drive, etc. One should have compassion for those unable to help
themselves. There will always be people trying to exploit a common good, but
that doesn’t mean they’re the majority.

If you’re willing to risk everything by moving to a new country with no money
where you might not even speak the language, you’re have above average drive
and appetite for risk. For example, grandchildren of such immigrants do not
share the same economic outlook [1].

[1]
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-c...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-
class-white-and-black-men.html)

~~~
NedIsakoff
If you talk to the group, their answer to drug addiction is its their fault
for starting drugs. For family support, they had none when the came here and
had very little opportunity too. My mom's first job was an sewing machine
operator in a garment shop in Halifax. My wife's mom had barely finished grade
8 school.

Note that this is my oberservation of their views only.

------
DataWorker
This is very similar the stories one hears regarding NIMBYism in the Silicon
Valley. Hard working, successful immigrants seem to subscribe the just world
hypothesis, exactly as one might predict. Their tolerance for those who aren’t
able to do the same is pretty low from what I’ve seen. If they can come here
poor and in a generation become millionaires and buy a home in California of
all places, then why can’t everyone else.

~~~
odnforthday
Here's the part I don't buy. She says Irvine is made up of 45% Asians, but the
protesters are mainly immigrants. Unless all 45% are first-generations, then
what she said doesn't add up. She uses the word immigrant only twice in the
article, near the top, with little proof backing her statement. Those that she
interview have Asian names, but that doesn't mean they are immigrants.

By using the word immigrant, she made the article sensational. She tried to
turn the protest into a topic of race, rather than simply stating Irvine
residents don't want a homeless shelter in the neighborhood.

Are most immigrants intolerant of homeless in Irvine? That's rather absolute
to be true. What about the other 40% whites? Do all of them approve of the
homeless shelter? 40% vs 45% are about the same weight, but she chose to focus
on only one side of the story. It would be more correct to state: Irvine, made
up of 45% Asian ethnicity, fights back against homeless shelter.

~~~
chrischen
She almost definitely categorized non-whites as “immigrants” based on
assumption, simply based on the fact that I highly doubt she conducted a
background survey of the protesters.

------
bmarquez
> Asians are usually quiet, you know. Not this time.

I'm just pleased to see more Asian-Americans getting involved in politics. I
lived in Irvine for a few months a while back, and it was a very clean city. I
didn't see any leaves on the street, or homeless people for that matter (which
I thought was strange, but I also felt safe not being accosted like in other
areas of LA.) People can throw the NIMBY card around but if this is the issue
it takes to see my former neighbors get involved in politics, so be it.

~~~
NedIsakoff
Agree!

------
blondie9x
Homelessness isn't a regional problem. It's a national problem. There needs to
be an area designated for them at a a national level. Pushing people from
place to place regionally is a terrible solution. An area needs to be
designated for them nationally like Native American reservations when they
were first created. The national solution needs to have programs to assist
with addiction, mental health, and job training.

This is a really national issue. There are homeless everywhere. Let's approach
it together with a national area all homeless people can go to for help.

~~~
boyaka
In response to other children of this post: perhaps you can give more evidence
as to how this solution would end up like the harsh imprisonment by oppressive
regimes? Why do you instantly shoot down one of the only creative solutions in
this entire discussion, other than trying to raise more money to throw at it
(which clearly has not even begun to solve these problems).

~~~
tdb7893
This solution is basically just advocating putting all the homeless in one
place without discussing how to actually fix anything once they are there
(will there be houses and jobs for them?), which makes it sound like it will
just be one big government mandated slum

~~~
angersock
Once they are there, the problem goes away.

Like, the issue of homelessness is really about how their presence impacts the
rest of us.

------
Simulacra
What troubles me about the Irvine case, is that it sounds like every other
"concerned" group across the country when it comes to homelessness. No to
tents, no to shelters in the neighborhood, no to homeless sleeping on the
benches, etc. Everyone, it seems, wants the problem to go some place else, but
no community, particularly in Silicon Valley, has stood up (to my knowledge
and please correct me if I'm wrong here) that the homeless people of a
community are PART of that community, and the community should embrace them,
and integrate them.

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic...

------
kimco
Is there any data on what is driving this?

How much of this is due to the cost to rent?

Is California a homeless destination due to climate and general tolerance to
homeless camps...etc?

~~~
tcoff91
California is definitely a destination for homeless people due to climate and
tolerance.

There is a practice known as Greyhound Therapy where many cities around the
country put mentally ill people on a bus and just ship them off to be someone
else’s problem. Many times they pick California because they know that the
homeless person would be better off there.

~~~
NedIsakoff
Then reverse it, ship it them to Montana

------
fatjokes
Heh, this reminds of a similar incident in New York a few years ago:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/nyregion/homeless-
shelter...](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/nyregion/homeless-shelters-
opening-in-queens-stirs-ugly-exchanges.html)

tl;dr: they opened a homeless shelter in a heavily (Asian) immigrant community
and were met with protests. The result was a sadly hilarious exchange between
the two groups with one side yelling "get a job" and the other side yelling
"go back to [some Asian country]".

A more paranoid person would see these moves as politically intentional. As
the stereotype goes, they're expected to take it quietly, they're not as
politically involved, and when they do, they're less likely to invoke sympathy
(xenophobia in America seems to be more acceptable, at least vs. racism, and
there appears to be a lot of resentment towards Asians.) The problem then
becomes minority-vs-minority, so racism accusations are not directed at
whites.

------
electriclove
The problem I see is that the county (Orange) is unilaterally deciding which
cities (Irvine, Huntington Beach, Laguna Niguel) the homeless should be moved
to.

~~~
prostoalex
It comes down to land ownership - county owns more land in some cities than
others. They cannot propose homeless housing in Rancho Santa Margarita or Coto
de Caza since most of that land is owned by someone other than the county.

------
fourthark
What cost. Sounds like they just plain won.

~~~
spicymaki
FWIW I think the implication is a moral cost.

------
selftemp
I read the article and then realized why is it on the front page of
Hackernews. Half the comments are flame-baiting. Wonder if there was a better
way to self-moderate this without the moderators who may be offline on a
Sunday.

------
newsunday
excuse me dang, i have tried repeatedly to contact the admins through email
without any response. i believe that my account tempagain567i and its
associated ip has been incorrectly rate limited. i havent posted or commented
in more than a day and it still wont let me post anything. i would be more
than happy to correct my behaviour if you would be so kind as to point out my
violation of site guidelines. Thanks.

~~~
dang
It just takes time to write replies, especially on weekends.

We detached this comment from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16787870](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16787870)
and marked it off-topic.

------
neonhomer
> a dentist with offices in Irvine and Orange, said he paid about $5,000 to
> sponsor seven buses…

I understand this dentist wanted to protect his neighborhood in his mind, but
it's really sad if he's not donating any money to actually help the homeless.

~~~
lykr0n
I don't think $5k will do much in a state that spends far beyond that per
person.

