
Asana - s4chin
http://blog.samaltman.com/asana
======
maw
Asana was the first program I ever used that made me feel old. But not in the
actually rather good sense of it making me say "wow, they can do this now?"

Rather, it made me feel like an old fart using a computer for the first time,
bewildered more often than not, most of my instincts rendered useless.

There are many examples in Asana of this. Each, taken alone, is banal: kind of
annoying, but maybe not too bad. Taken together, though, we have something
that a nicer person than I wouldn't wish on his worst enemy, but I'm just not
that nice of a person.

~~~
askafriend
You nailed it. Their UI and UX are both just really bad but it's a kind of
hidden complexity that sneaks up on you and you don't realize it until you
actually start using the product. They also had a horrible (like,
really....really bad) mobile app for the longest time and even their new one
uses very very weird UX paradigms for no clear reason.

I'm not even old.

~~~
yosyp
My favorite example of their strange UI/UX pattern is trying to make a new
task header in list mode. There isn't a dedicated button for this — or is
there?! Try to hover your pointer on "Add Task" and a new button magically
appears next to it, on:hover, called "Add Section"! Just like 1999 all over
again, but without the GIFs and marquees.

They seem to have intentionally followed this design pattern, as hidden
buttons often appear on hover next to adjacent buttons. I can't imagine how
touchscreen laptop users feel using Asana. I won't even go into how their
calendar view hides weekends, and how our team spent _minutes_ finding the
button to show weekends during a meeting.

~~~
npsimons
> I can't imagine how touchscreen laptop users feel using Asana.

As a digital immigrant that hasn't jumped on touch devices, I have noticed
there is a shift to more "implicit" interfaces with touch devices. Not much
screen space to show things, so don't waste it on menus until they are needed.
I suspect that touchscreen using digital natives don't have too much of an
issue with this, but I've also never used Asana.

------
realbarack
Asana is ... fine. Having used it and JIRA at the companies I've worked for I
can say that each has their own set of useful and annoying features and
quirks.

Obviously Atlassian had a nice exit so and I'm guessing there's plenty of room
for growth in this industry (what % of teams actually use a dedicated task-
management software? I bet it's not a lot!) so this could be a wise
investment. Nonetheless the rhetoric—"Asana is the kind of lever that could
someday massively increase the productivity of hundreds of millions of people
around the world"—is kind of overblown.

~~~
dash2
My thoughts exactly, and I was reminded of this achewood panel:

[http://achewood.com/index.php?date=05182004](http://achewood.com/index.php?date=05182004)

It's a todo list. Good! I hope it works.

------
polysaturate
For myself, using Asana falls into the the don't love, but don't hate,
category. The UI is pretty nice, but I always feel it just doesn't have enough
teeth for complex project/collaboration. I mean, I see it has a lot of
features to facilitate that need(project, hierarchical tasks, attachments,
commenting), but it doesn't convey 'serious business'.

~~~
cwilson
As a very heavy day to day user, my biggest three complaints are:

1\. Ability to "lock" a row. We often build lists in Asana that are not meant
to be tasks. It's great for project planning or status boards. The problem is
everything in Asana is very easily checked off or moved, which sometimes can
happen by accident. This provides a feeling of fleetingness that I think makes
some people (especially super detail oriented project managers) nervous.

2\. Native Apps. I really need a great official OSX native app. The iOS app,
while it has gotten better, has always felt like an afterthought to the
company.

3\. Notifications. This is the main reason I want a solid OSX app. I need
notifications to work really well. If something is important and needs my
attention, I need to instantly know about it (and knowing about it via a push
notification on my phone isn't good enough). Slack has cut down on email usage
for us, like many, significantly. I don't check email as much now, so I can't
rely on email notifications for our primary project management tool.

Overall Asana is great. I always end up going back to it after using other
tools. I do agree however there are a few small things that would help to make
it feel a bit more "grown up".

~~~
motdiem
My experience is pretty similar. Asana is fine, and I find other tools
generally less effective. The ui is convoluted though, especially since they
introduced conversation. The way documents are integrated isn't great either -
I wish there was a way to share team docs or project docs without sticking
them into tasks or conversations.

And basic things like assigning tasks or moving them across sections take
forever in the mobile apps - which is quite painful.

But when you define a clear process within a team, which features to use or
avoid, it's way more powerful than email, and more inclusive than ticketing
systems

------
mlinsey
I like Asana's product design a lot, my one complaint is that (at least as of
when I most recently tried it a few months ago), it was so slow. I like for my
personal todo list have very fine-grained breakdown of tasks and having each
page of the UI take several seconds to load so I could check of one task and
navigate to the next one managed to kill the sense of flow I had between
tasks.

In the end I went back to Workflowy (YC S10 for life!), which doesn't have as
strong team-collaboration features (as well as email integration and several
other bells/whistles), but few of my teammates were already using Asana
anyway, and Workflowy is delightfully fast and simple-yet-flexible enough to
support a hierarchy that roughly maps to how I had projects set up in Asana.

~~~
polysaturate
Yes, I believe Asana could be a strong use case for 'Just because React,
doesn't mean it's fast'.

~~~
mlinsey
Interesting, didn't know they were using React. I thought they wrote their own
framework. (Didn't they even have their own compiled-to-JS language at one
point?)

In any case, "Just because X, doesn't mean it's fast", where X is a technology
choice, is probably true for all X :)

~~~
polysaturate
The Chrome React Inspector picked up the React. Which was the basis for my
assumption.

~~~
pspeter3
We're switching to React and moving away from simulation on the server. We're
close to converting our core views and should be rolling those out soon. If
you're interested in our perf problems, I would check out
[https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Asana-so-darn-slow-to-
load/answ...](https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Asana-so-darn-slow-to-
load/answer/Phips-Peter?__snids__=1610983699&__nsrc__=1&__filter__=all)

------
mckilljoy
I just skimmed through some of those Glassdoor reviews. They were all quite
positive, but I find it interesting that the vast majority were posted Feb-Mar
2016.

~~~
shas3
I wonder, earnestly, on a tangent: how do you ensure the authenticity of
Glassdoor reviews? What's the guarantee that people are not faking good
reviews? They should probably implement a system of employment verification.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
I apply the same metric I apply to online product or service reviews. If they
appear on a regular cycle, or if they appear in some of there kind of
statistically improbable clumps, or if there are no negative comments at all,
then they may not be entirely plausible.

Employment verification won't help on Glassdoor, because it would be the
easiest thing in the world to hint to a group of the most settled employees
that maybe they could leave positive ratings.

It would help against malicious negative reviews - which can also be a thing.

~~~
shas3
Websites with reviews are doing a disservice to users by not giving us
tabulated reviews and tools to view detailed statistics. I'm reminded of 538's
impressive interactive data exploration pages.

------
heynk
At my last job we used Asana and one of our PM's was an internal 'Asana
Champion'. He made sure we did things 'the Asana way' and stuck to a
structured process for getting things done. I think this is required to get a
whole organization using Asana efficiently - otherwise it's too easy for
everyone to use Asana 'their own way' and it becomes a mess.

I always hated that there was no 'doing' status for tasks - we always had to
hack around that.

~~~
orky56
You can create a tag for "Doing" since that stays tied to the task rather than
creating a section for "Doing". It's still a hack but gets the job done. As
soon as you think of workflow, that extra dimension works better in
Trello/Kanban systems since Asana nails the hierarchy via projects/subtasks.

------
pbprabhuram
Asana's interface is cluttered especially when the number of projects and
tasks get more.

While we like its collaboration features like easy sharing, its task details
is really a let down when we worked as a team.

Which is why we decided to build our own project management tool / issue
tracker from scratch that overcomes its shortcomings, also we recently gave
our internal tool - a public release now available at taskmail.io

------
phodo
I've been using Asana for a while and have recommended it to various companies
/ customers. I think it is a good tool for collaboration and reducing email
clutter, especially when coupled w slack.

One thing that is sorely lacking is the agile / product management piece. You
can sort of make it work, but it just doesn't fully cut it. I'm currently
using Asana AND an agile tool (not Trello). They overlap in so many areas, but
there are some missing features from Asana for scrum/agile work, that if added
would make it work for a broad set of use cases even beyond agile development:

a) ability to create categories within categories in a project: With Asana, I
can create one level of categories in a given project. Ideally, I'd like to
have different buckets like: Backlog, Sprint Todo, In Progress, Deploy. Within
each of those, I'd like to categorize by "Epic". E.g. "Backlog -> Reports",
"Backlog -> User Auth"

b) ability to show categories horizontally, instead of showing a stacked
vertical list: This would be similar to the way Trello does it. (Note that
Trello also lacks in other areas, and is not ideal either, but it comes
close.).

c) ability to have more options for prioritization / sort order

d) ability to have labels in the summary view for things like tags, epics

People's mileage may vary in how they use scrum/kanban/etc., but the basics
are mostly the same. I would think that with the rise of "software eating the
world", addressing the agile/scrum use case represents a good market
opportunity.

It would allow our teams and many teams to compress their tools from asana +
agile tool to one tool. It might also take market share away from Trello for
some use cases.

------
nlitened
Finally created my HN account to post this comment :). Just wanted to share.

I am an owner of a small IT business. We've been using Asana as our project
management system for about 2 years, almost from the beginning of our company.

I love it now.

Initially, it took some time to get accustomed to the way interface works, and
I tried several times to switch to something different, but I've always kept
coming back — Asana fits our workflow perfectly: many simultaneous projects
with numerous prioritized tasks each, partially remote employees with good
sense of responsibility.

I love the speed of entering new tasks and sorting them. I really appreciate
the speed of switching between projects and task details. I am fond of the
"spreadsheet" feel of the UI, where you can edit anything right away, without
dancing around.

I see only two major downsides.

1\. Initial loading time of web interface is really slow. I have a habit of
closing the tab every now and then, hence I get to see the loading screen at
least 30 times a day.

2\. Their free version is too functionally complete for me to switch to paid
version. We have around 10 team members, and I stumble upon no restrictions in
my workflow. I would love to pay for Asana, since it's bringing so much value
to my company. But I in business, not a charity, and I will not do so until I
have to. Recently, their technical support was even so kind to switch my
company's domain name (not possible via UI) for free. Had they told me that
the only way to do that is to upgrade my organization to paid plan, I'd start
paying in a heartbeat :(

My only wish so far: pre-render the React UI on server while prefetching first
bunch of AJAX requests, so that it loads instantly. Please if you ever add
this, make it a premium feature.

------
spark3k
As a long time, 'power' Asana user I can confidently say that it's a good task
list manager and nothing more. "Project Management", or rather, at a higher
level, "Work", is much more than a dynamic, shared, list of tasks.

Asana has tried to create the killer app, the email beating, unified metaphor
for project management and... it's not enough. I would not have invested
without a very promising roadmap.

~~~
nerdponx
Yup. We use JIRA for development, Trello for ideation, and Slack for
communication. On top of all that, I use Asana as a personal to-do/task
manager. So far, none of those programs has been apple to supplant any of the
others.

------
hotcool
I tried to like Asana. I gave it several tries over the years, but the UI is
so uninspired it seemed to drain my creativity. It looks polished though.

~~~
gk1
They launched a new UI a few months ago, complete with flying unicorns and
rainbows (seriously).

~~~
hotcool
I tried it. It didn't do anything for me, but to each his own.

------
andrewfromx
when I think of Asana I always remember this tweet
[https://twitter.com/davidsacks/status/34785257697980416](https://twitter.com/davidsacks/status/34785257697980416)

~~~
ph0rque
On the other hand, this is the one that comes to mind for me:
[https://twitter.com/dhh/status/714799846616657920](https://twitter.com/dhh/status/714799846616657920)

~~~
gk1
Eh, I respect DHH but he's willfully misreading that paragraph, and it's hard
to ignore his bias in the matter.

~~~
andrewfromx
ha, i love the "fancy todolist" description

------
whiddershins
I'm astonished at the negativity in many of these comments.

I use Asana for everything, as do many of the people I work with.

Universally it seems people are at first a little uncomfortable with it, but
then fall completely in love and use it all the time and can't imagine ever
doing with out it again.

It is fast and fluid to work in. It is simple and flexible enough that you can
basically improvise a team workflow without formalizing it ... often the
system just evolves naturally as the team uses it.

Most of us were very sad about the new interface, it feels condescending and
more cluttered.

And there will always be more features to wish for. But I think it is a
product in a class by itself.

------
amackera
Asana is a wonderful tool and it keeps getting better. I think this is more of
an investment in the team and the future opportunity than it is in the current
tool. There's a long road ahead!

On a sidenote, we're working on a project that marries the best of Asana,
Trello, and JIRA, plus with some super-smart integrations. It's designed
specifically for dev teams, thought I'd drop this shameless plug here in case
folks are interested. Check it out at:
[http://getcadence.com/](http://getcadence.com/)

------
jbob2000
Tasking, time and project management, and issue tracking is a really busy
space. I am surprised Sam invested, given the crazy amount of competition.
Trello, JIRA, Fogbugz, YouTrack, Basecamp, PivotalTracker...

Not only that, but once a company chooses an app like this, they're pretty
much stuck with it. My company is currently transitioning from FogBugz to JIRA
and it is taking months, and we're still going to keep fogbugz around, just in
case. So I'm curious how Asana will tackle the "stickiness" problem.

~~~
trhway
no "stickiness" problem whatsoever :) Our department (and the departments i
see around) switched back from JIRA to Excel (it good to be home Chewey!) the
very moment our top management stopped pushing SCRUM down everybody's throat.
It happened so easy and quickly that the last uttered word "SCRUM" hadn't yet
stopped reverberating in the office :)

------
ProAm
Im surprised Asana is still considered a 'startup', especially to the degree
that yCombinator is going to invest in, I thought their philosophy was to help
ground level startups.

~~~
andyeskridge
It sounds like Y Combinator is not the one investing, only Sam Altman.

~~~
ProAm
Ah, its a weird blur on his blog when he speaks for himself or for YC. But it
makes sense if its just him investing and not YC.

------
fecak
Question for Sam if he's reading. I've never seen someone speak about
Glassdoor in reference to making an investment decision. Obviously, most
Glassdoor references we would see might be regarding decisions to apply to a
company or accept a job.

As an investor, wouldn't you rather get the opportunity to actually speak to
current and (perhaps more importantly) former employees, and do you usually
get that opportunity? I'm not talking about executives, but rather software
developers, managers, etc.

TIA if you answer.

~~~
ryporter
I think he's referring to Glassdoor posts made by current and former
employees, not the ones about applying to work at the company. Even if there
aren't any explicitly negative reviews, you can learn a lot by reading between
the lines.

~~~
fecak
Understood. Perhaps my comment was ambiguous. My question is "Would you rather
speak to current and former employees _about their experience at the company_
than to rely on potentially faked reviews, and if so, are you usually granted
that request when made?"

I wasn't referring to any posts criticizing or praising a company's hiring
practices, although those might be helpful too (coincidentally I believe they
had an article here yesterday on their engineering interviews).

------
JofArnold
If it wasn't for Instagantt I'd not use Asana. The non-devs love Asana, but
the devs get very frustrated with the UI. Not sure what accounts for the
divided opinion

------
tedmiston
> Asana is the kind of lever that could someday massively increase the
> productivity of hundreds of millions of people around the world. There’s not
> only an opportunity for Asana to be a huge company, but also for Asana to
> materially increase the output for the planet—somewhat amazingly, software
> has not yet eaten this important part of the world.

 _What_ important part of the world?

------
cellis
I am curious; why doesn't Dustin Moskovitz fund Asana entirely on his own?
Genuine question. It's not like he couldn't afford it, he's worth around 10
billion. If he truly believes in the company why not put some of his Facebook
money into it?

~~~
askafriend
It's good to have other people invested in the success of "your" company.
Obviously if Asana needed extra cash and no one was willing to invest, Dustin
could step in...but why do that when that's not the case?

------
mathattack
I've only been in one environment that tried to use it, and the sponsor
struggled to get everyone to follow suit, and eventually it was dropped. I
think adoption is as much a people and process ("How we do work") issue than
pure technology.

------
qaq
Any plans to use new found capital to provide ability to move projects between
workspaces :)?

------
AstroJetson
I was also surprised by the negative notes, so I went to the site to see what
the product was about.

I watched a 1:32 min video that said "what we are doing now isn't working".
Really, 90 seconds to tell me that?

From that point it was down hill. What happened to web sites that get to the
meat of what they are doing quickly?

I was very disappointed. As a project manager based on the website and the
first 100 comments here it's unlikely that I would give this product a second
glance. There are other project tools out there, I'd pick another.

I only hope that this is an early April Fools joke, in which case "Ya got me
Sam".

------
tsunamifury
Open tickets, assign a priority and party, and burn them down. I'm always
surprised that people keep thinking that putting a prettier UI on top of this
is somehow the next billion dollar efficiency.

------
mgberlin
There's a lot of people in this thread who sound a bit disappointed in using
Asana for Dev work. I understand that, as well as frustration with the huge-
ness of JIRA. If you agree, I'd appreciate it if you checked out my current
project [http://rowstack.com](http://rowstack.com), and let me know what you
think. We did ShowHN a couple weeks ago, and have been aggressively building
out the features people asked for.

------
bjoernw
On the comment about sticky recurring revenue I think an important factor is
the lock-in effect of having pretty much all your company's audit protection
based on an app like Jira or Asana. How would a company that tracks git
commits on the jira story level even move off jira?!

------
mangeletti
I love that Sam's post has a link to Asana's post which has a link to Sam's
post.

~~~
6stringmerc
Synergy!

------
userium
Asana is an awesome company. We recently created an employer profile with them
on StayInTech:
[https://stayintech.com/info/asana](https://stayintech.com/info/asana)

------
romanr
If you don't like to be led into "doing things Asana way" try Hitask
(hiTask.com) - it doesn't make you work in any particular frame of mind, you
can actually do things your way.

------
komali2
When it comes to investing, "I like how the teams work" is probably not the
path you should be walking down in making a decision about where to drop a
hefty chunk of change on.

~~~
biot
Though this is Sam's personal investment, YCombinator has always stated they
invest more in teams than ideas; do you have data to suggest a better approach
for picking winners?

~~~
jbob2000
Doesn't matter how good the team is if the market doesn't want the product.

To pick a winner, you need foresight. You have to know a lot about what people
are doing today to predict what they are doing tomorrow.

~~~
biot
Of course, but a great team can adapt their product to meet the market demands
and will execute well. A poor team, on the other hand, likely cannot come up
with a great product or, if they can, will execute poorly. After all, if they
have a great product and execute well then, by definition, they're a great
team.

------
fiatjaf
Why didn't you write good things about it before you were investing and now
that you are you write?

This post should come with a big fat disclaimer: "I'M AN INVESTOR IN ASANA,
THAT'S WHY I WANT YOU TO LIKE AND USE ASANA."

~~~
ryporter
The very first sentence begins with "I’m delighted to finally be investing in
Asana."

~~~
fiatjaf
Isn't that pretty? I'm delighted!

