Ask HN: How much did you, as an employee, make when your startup exited? - saaswarrior
======
pascalxus
I'm a senior software engineer with over 12 years of experience.

6 out 7 start ups I worked for never had a liquidation event that resulted in
any monetary gain.

The one that did ( i was employee #97 and worked there for almost 6 years) and
they finally had a 2ndary offer which allowed me to sell 15% of my shares, for
about 7K, but because it's short term gains, about 4K is what I got after
taxes.

The rest of the shares were completely worthless because they couldn't be
sold. I am not disappointed. I never assumed the options would ever be worth
anything - I choose my employment based on Salary and work life balance.
Options are just a nice bonus, if they do happen.

~~~
tinkerteller
Your argument is not making sense to me as someone who had offers from
startups. I was asked to take roughly 40% pay cut now and expect 10X increase
in valuation for equity over 4 years which would put me ahead by 2X to 3X in
terms of total compensation over that time frame. I didn't took the offer
taking to account risk of failure (~80%). If I treated options as "nice bonus"
it would never make sense to take any startup offer over jobs at established
companies.

~~~
gt2
That's why people say look at them like lottery tickets. There's many factors
that go into whether or not they are worth anything - dilution and whether or
not the startup is successful. The successful startup part needs good
management, good demand for product, competitive against competitors.

> I was asked to take roughly 40% pay cut now and expect 10X increase

Of course you were. They are selling you on the dream, the best case scenario,
etc. The hard part is that no-one is intentionally or literally defrauding,
but it is up to every person what terms they agree to.

------
civility
First startup, I traded nearly all of my salary over four years for stock
options: $0

Second startup, I was told I'd get 5% of the company (no contract though). I
quit after a year without pushing the topic: $0

Third job was not a startup, but it was a fairly small company, and I've made
nearly two million in tax deferred accounts having made a healthy salary the
entire time. I'm retiring this year.

I learned a lot of great things at those first two companies, but I would
never recommend a startup from a financial point of view. I almost joined a
third startup, but I didn't, and they folded as well. I suspect you've got
better odds going to Vegas and putting your salary on a number from the
roulette table.

~~~
rubicon33
"Third job was not a startup, but it was a fairly small company, and I've made
nearly two million in tax deferred accounts"

I would love to know how. Am I just stupid? How am I missing these
opportunities? Someone above posted that 4 years at FAANG would net you
$1,000,000 savings. And you're saying that a "fairly small" company netted you
$2,000,000 savings?

I am failing at life, apparently.

~~~
mikekchar
People win the lottery. You don't ask "Am I doing something wrong. I bought a
ticket too and didn't win anything".

These huge bonuses, etc are handed out to people who either have really scarce
skills or get lucky.

Wikipedia[1] says there are nearly 4 million software developers in the US. If
each were to receive a million dollars, then it would total up to 4 trillion
USD (using US ways of naming large numbers). The GDP of the US in 2016 (same
time the software developers demographics was reported) was about 18.6
trillion USD.

The idea that a million USD is reasonable for a developer is absolutely
laughable.

[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering_demograph...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering_demographics)

~~~
pm90
Nobody makes a million dollars a year. Read the comment... it’s over their
entire tenure at the company.

~~~
nojvek
Even 4 years at FANG with million in savings is laughable. You gotta be pretty
high up the ladder. It is definitely not the average.

~~~
pm90
Actually an initial grant of 600K in RSU's in a FAANG would probably net that
much with 4 years of rapid growth in stock price. And don't forget the cash
component isn't peanuts either.

~~~
nojvek
Is 600K RSUs a normal thing? I’m guessing it’s only for senior+ engineers
only.

That’s a ridiculous amount of money. Microsoft feels very stingy if this is
the normal.

~~~
pm90
The old guard (MS, IBM etc.) seem stingy indeed when it comes to comp (except
for executives, who seem to be compensated somewhat similarly across the
board).

The newer software firms are much much better at adequately compensating
software engineers, and especially senior software engineers. If you are a
senior software engineer you should seriously consider trying getting
compensated along those lines.

------
aminotaa
Startup 1: $50k for 1 year (in the 90s, do the math what it would be right
now)

Big company for some time

Startup 2: $0 for 2 years

Startup 3: $0 for 2 years

Startup 4: $0 for 2 years

Startup 5: $500k for 4 years

Startup 6: $1m for 1 year (still somewhat in play because 3/4 of my options
got converted into the options of a public company as a result of acquisition,
and I got RSU handcuffs on top of that)

All numbers before tax. I hope I'm done with my startup adventures. Lost taste
for it.

Financially, based on my experience, startups do not make any sense as an
employee.

Mentally, Startup 5 made me question my faith in humanity.

~~~
dunpeal
> Financially, based on my experience, startups do not make any sense as an
> employee.

Absolutely. Also note that you are an extreme outlier for having had a 7
figure payoff.

Most people who spent their entire career in startups will be lucky to see a 6
figure payoff at any point.

------
deanmoriarty
Joined among the first 10 employees. The company grew to 200 employees and
400M valuation in 4 years. Sold last year a portion of my vested shares for 1M
to investors as part of a secondary transaction, and I still have a decent
amount (70%) of vested shares and unvested options, since the company hasn’t
exited yet and management has no plan of doing so in the short/medium term.

I’m not counting on the rest of the equity to be worth as much because I don’t
believe in the company ability to execute well at this point, too many changes
diluting the quality and the mission. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to sell more
as part of the secondary transaction (company rule), otherwise I would have
dumped it all (the vested part that is).

Yet I consider myself lucky after having read all these comments, but had I
gone to FAANG 4 years ago my financial outcome would have been very similar,
if not bigger.

~~~
rubicon33
Seriously? 4 years at FAANG would net you $1,000,000 savings?

That seems... crazy. Can someone explain how that works? Your salary alone
living in the bay area, definitely isn't goin to net you $1,000,000 in
savings.

~~~
deanmoriarty
I got an offer from Netflix for 450k cash and another offer from FB for 210k
cash with 600k equity over 4 years, a few years ago.

Considering how well those stocks did after such offers were made to me, and
how frugal I am (avid minimalist spending <50k a year in the bay), I would
have saved even more than 1M (I know most of my friends working there did).

Also, the 1M from the startup wasn’t net, but gross (taxed at long term
capital gain luckily).

~~~
zerr
> 210k cash with 600k equity over 4 years

Could you please explain how does this work? Is it a one-time payment of 600K
spread over 4 years? And afterwards you just end up with 210K base (or maybe a
small increase) for the following years, with no additional bonuses/etc?

~~~
pm90
You need to look up how Equities work.

This looks like an RSU grant of 600K; there are different vesting schedules
(i.e. how much of the RSU becomes actual shares in the company, owned by you
which you can sell/keep). Typically its 25% every year with a 1 year cliff
(i.e. you get 0 actual shares when you start, but 25% after a year and so on).

------
exithrowaway564
I joined as a regular non-manager, non-lead employee. Actually, I started as
an intern, and was offered a full time job immediately after that. I was
employee #~100. I sold 1625 shares in a secondary round for $14,000. When the
company eventually exited, I sold 27,375 shares for $1.1M. I have 1000 shares
remaining. If I hadn’t sold anything, my shares would be worth about $5.1M
today.

~~~
nodesocket
Curious why you have 1,000 shared remaining? Are you still employed there?

Also, what was the tax bill on the $14k and $1.1M in terms of percentage? Was
it long term capital gains 15% fixed?

~~~
exithrowaway564
I am no longer employed there. I hold them mostly for nostalgic purposes. I
sold all of my shares because it seemed foolish to have 100% of my net worth
in one company. Holding 1000 shares feels okay. Tax bill was ~0 on the $14K
and my marginal tax rate on half (I’m Canadian)

~~~
nodesocket
How do you not owe any tax on $14,000 income? Is that some Canadian benefit?

~~~
desdiv
When a Canadian has $14,000 in capital gains, their tax liability is
calculated as: $14,000 * 50% * marginal tax rate. The 50% is basically the
Canadian way of taxing capital gains lower than earned income.

What GP was trying to convey, albeit in a slightly confusing fashion, was
this:

1\. He had $14,000 in capital gains

2\. No tax was directly accessed against this $14,000 amount, in other word:
"tax bill was ~0 on the $14K".

3\. The taxable portion of his capital gains was $14,000 * 50% = $7000

4\. He paid his marginal tax rate on the taxable portion of his capital gains
($7000)

~~~
exithrowaway564
Sorry, yeah, could have been a lot more clear there. I was making extremely
little salary at the time of the secondary, so I paid something like 20% tax
on half, for about $1400 in taxes on $14k proceeds.

------
saryant
I was employee #1. It sold to google. All employee options were wiped out.

~~~
mooman219
It sounds like the Founders had to have made some poor/greedy decisions if
even employee #1 didn't see anything.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
As someone who has been on the purchasing side of one of these transactions,
that's not really the case.

What usually happens is, say the company has received $x million in funding.
Everyone is plugging away working hard, but runway starts to run short and the
product isn't getting the traction originally anticipated. At that point it
looks obvious the company will go bankrupt relatively soon, so the investors
push for a sale to try to recoup some of the their money. Often times there is
value in the team and perhaps industry knowledge to the acquiring company, but
the tech itself is often worthless, so the sales price is below the $x million
capital raised and only holders of preferred shares get anything.

Note that founders rarely own preferred shares. They have common stock just
like employees, so they are usually wiped out, too, in cases like this.

~~~
tinkerteller
Thanks for the insight. I had guessed that most of the aquihires price are set
at (investments + $500K/employee). If this wasn't the case, I would think that
employees would have no incentive to get onboard and that would basically not
allow the sale to go through. Is this not the case in your experience?

------
Tloewald
I joined a successful startup about ten months before it was acquired for
several hundred million. The deal somehow led to a lot of employees losing
their options (myself included). There was some discussion of a lawsuit but it
fizzled.

~~~
BurningFrog
Tell us more about "somehow"?

~~~
gammateam
what needs to be explained, a several hundred million exit is LOWWWWWW. If
they had a series B for 20 million or so, or a series C for close to or above
100 million, then the valuation itself was WAY more than that.

A few hundred million exit will result in ZILCH (almost $zero) for any common
stock shareholder every single time, unless the company was in series A or
lower.

VCs have a separate share class called Preferred, and they also negotiate
"Liquidation Preferences" with a multiple. So a Liquidation Preference x1
means they get their money back, as much as possible. A Liquidation Preference
x2 means they get double their money no matter what, before anybody else -
like common stockholders - get paid.

And this is before your stock options' strike price matters.

Its a shitty deal, investor protection laws should be extended to cover this,
because the information and transparency is lacking.

~~~
Tloewald
The exit was in 2005, and several hundred million was not bad (although it
came after a failed effort to go public for somewhere north of a billion). I
was very new to the startup game and had comparatively little at stake and
didn’t understand any of the language but I was invited to some gatherings of
engineers who had been screwed by the deal.

My impression is that founders or early investors often have a lot of ability
to dilute the value of stock prior to making a deal (there’s description of
similar shenanigans early in “Chaos Monkeys”)

------
throwaway42959
I joined an already-successful ~400 person company with an already-published
S-1 at around year 8 or 9, and worked there for around three years in total. I
was given options representing such a small fraction of the company that it
wasn't memorable (perhaps a hundredth or thousandth of one percent?). My
options were underwater for several months after a lackluster IPO, but
eventually the stock picked up enough steam to make me around $300,000.

Of all the companies/startups I've worked for, this one was by far the most
corporate and least startup-ey, yet this was the only one that made me more
than a penny after an exit, despite working at a few other startups that have
had "exits."

------
brogrammernot
Startup 1: $0 Startup 2: $0 Startup 3: Would’ve made ~$40k had I not left so
early (left after 7 months, sold for a couple hundred million like 6 months
later) Startup 4: Publicly traded now, will see how it turns out but hopefully
$100k or more

Overall, simply bank on it being nothing

~~~
rpm33
what equity % did you get ?

~~~
brogrammernot
At the now public company, it wasn’t a %, but just a grant mix of options post
IPO and a grant of RSUs as well because of some funny timing with the IPO.

I only planned on staying a year before moving so I didn’t negotiate any stock
into the initial comp package, but later re-negotiated that into the plan
which resulted in the weird timing around IPO so have a weird mix of options
and RSUs.

------
CoconutPilot
I joined a startup in 2000. All employees starting before me were offered ~50k
shares in the company as part of compensation while I was offered ~50k
options. I was told options were the more correct way of doing way of doing
things and other than the strike price they were essentially the same.

As a junior employee who didn't know any better (and no negotiation leverage
anyway) I accepted the deal. Fast forward a couple of years and as a potential
sale of the company approached it was announced that the stock was going to
split 10 for 1. What this means is everyone with shares now had 10x, while
option numbers were unaffected (ignoring that the stock price is now 10% of
what it was).

When the company was bought the price per share was equal to the strike price
of a second grant of options I had, making them worthless. I suspect most of
the employee options were at this strike price.

A fellow employee with shares made 40x what I did for starting a month
earlier. My payout was <$30k.

~~~
icedchai
This doesn't make sense. Options should have been adjusted for the split.

------
freddie_mercury
Startup 1: $0

Startup 2: $0

Startup 3: $3,000,000

Startup 4: $0

That's over the course of 25 years, with a few stints at non-startups as well.

~~~
clubm8
You didn't put anything away from your salary? (401k? Roth IRA?)

As someone from humble origins, it surprises me more people don't live
frugally 5-10 years in the Bay then retire in luxury somewhere with lower cost
of living.

~~~
praneshp
The question probably means money made as a result of the exit, likely due to
options/RSUs. I'd think that 401k/IRA comes from salary.

~~~
clubm8
Yes, should have been clearer. That's what I was clarifying, since some
startups vastly underpay. A disturbing number of people I meet in tech don't
plan well for retirement.

------
q845712
I once joined a company that already had several hundred employees as an entry
level software engineer. It was my least favorite job: I couldn't find a fit
and I only lasted just over a year. However, during that year they IPO'd, and
because I made it over the vesting cliff I was able to buy my options on my
way out.

Ballpark numbers: I had 300 options at $5. post-IPO price was around $15. I
did the "sell to buy" thing, so I sold roughly 100 shares to pay for buying
all 300. I haven't sold the other ones yet but the stock is north of
$50/share. It seems like there's less than 20k shares total in circulation.
(that's like an order of magnitude less than I expected? I took "shares
held(000s)" and divided by "% Own", and rounded.)

I have the impression that most of the "old-timer" employees did quite well as
long as they sold their stocks at the right time: one guy spent 6+ months
traveling and then took his time finding his next job, another guy thinks he
might be able to retire in his '40s.

edit: as elsewhere in this thread, I also worked at a startup that failed
($0), and I've left a couple that to my knowledge are still going ($ -4k ,
because both times i bought options on my way out just in case they make it)

~~~
sk5t
I've never heard of an IPO'd company--meaning one that's listed on a public
market like the NYSE or NASDAQ--with such thin trading, nor have I ever heard
of option grants measured in hundreds...

~~~
freddie_mercury
I got an option grant once for hundreds. It was for a promotion and, whatever
the intended effect, I felt like "why did you even bother?"

~~~
seattle_spring
Me as well (well, it was 1000 shares for a promo, but close enough). I left
shortly thereafter.

------
valuearb
I was co-founder of a software company’s old during internet bubble. My
partner funded everything so we split shares 80-20. Then we both got
substantially diluted by two rounds of investment and 140 employee share
packages. I think i had 5% at the end.

When sold we got 15% in cash, and 85% in stock in the public internet company,
that was locked up for one year. The cash was a $800,000+ check. A year later
i sold the stock for maybe $150k.

~~~
nodesocket
Do you regret selling the stock, unless the parent company went under.

~~~
valuearb
No, my average sale price was about $1. The purchasing company was sold a year
later for fifty cents a share.

If I could have sold earlier I would have. Even then i understood a near
revenue-less business couldn’t be worth $500M+.

------
saasmillionaire
Made 1 million on a company exit of about 100 million as technical co-founder.
Started with 15% but got diluted to 1% after several rounds of funding
including down rounds.

~~~
gammateam
> Started with 15% but got diluted to 1% after several rounds of funding
> including down rounds.

haha WOW oh my god, and the software engineers getting a fraction of a
fraction of a percent and being "reassured" that its a generous offer!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6IQ_FOCE6I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6IQ_FOCE6I)

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
While I don't disagree with your comment much (if the technical cofounder was
diluted down to 1%, guessing pretty much all employees received well under
$100k), it's weird that you linked to that "tech bubble" video from _2007_. If
anything, Peter Thiel was exactly right, and he understood that winner-take-
all tech leaders would become insanely valuable. That video is arguing 2007
Facebook was a bubble at a $15 billion valuation. It's worth $470 billion
today.

~~~
gammateam
the video is linked for the "pay developers a fraction of a fraction of a pie"
line in the catchy song

extremely relevant and the 2007, in italics for emphasis, is irrelevant ... or
is it timeless

Peter Thiel? yeah I'm going to go with "'Missed the Point', for $10,000"

------
bin01
Startup 1: 30k (Joined as a Junior Engineer)

Startup 2: 2M$ (Joined as a mid level engineer, built the product ground up to
scaling it to millions of users and hundreds of customers)

------
jrozner
The current company I’m at just sold about a month ago for $140mil. I was one
of the first engineers (the three of us originals all started at the same
time) and started a few months after initial funding was raised. Between my
purchased options and non-purchased vested options I made about $130k and have
another about $40k in remaining options that are converting over. I was kept
on by the acquiring company and given a new company package with about $40k of
additional RSUs that vest over 4 years.

~~~
rpm33
What % of the current company (startup) did you own when you were made the
offer originally ?

~~~
jrozner
My original option grant was for 0.00225%. I optimized for salary when I was
hired, due to the stock at my previous two startups being worthless, and
didn’t fight for more. Between series A and B we were going through some rough
times as a company and I was granted a second grant of the same number of
shares but not sure what the percentage turned into.

------
tristanj
There are a few answers in this thread from 2 years ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12116137](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12116137)

------
kusha
Employee # 3 at a startup, my first full time jr dev job. Eventually talked my
way into .33% equity.

$6M exit, our shares were bought with the acquiring company's publicly traded
shares. Those shares had a 6 month cliff before we could sell them.

~$9 a share at the time of acquisition, ~$4 a share at the end of the 6
months. Sold about 1 year after acquisition for ~$10/share, now at ~$17 a
share and climbing.

Made $11k pretax in the end. (+$4k cash gift from founder that got a bigger
payout, due to the board not approving more equity for employees pre-
acquisition)

------
bmilleare
It's really interesting to see $100M+ exits that have resulted in trivial sums
for founders and early employees after multiple rounds of dilution and/or VCs
with preferred shares taking home the spoils.

I have always optimised for salary although I can see why a young engineer
with no dependants might opt for the gamble of a big payday instead, likely
without really understanding their true chances.

Too much industry focus is heaped on 'unicorns' when these kind of companies
really are a drop in the ocean.

~~~
dunpeal
> It's really interesting to see $100M+ exits that have resulted in trivial
> sums for founders and early employees after multiple rounds of dilution
> and/or VCs with preferred shares taking home the spoils.

My unscientific impression is that in 9 figure exits the founders typically do
make money, because they typically retain enough equity even after significant
dilution.

However, I have heard of high 9 figure exits in which nobody but the founders
and VCs made any significant money.

------
funded12345
CTO on founding team. Started out with 10% equity. Co. is now 6 years old.
After a merger (diluted by 40%), $10m investment (diluted more), $4m strategic
investment (diluted more), then investors taking money off the table first for
an exit event - I stand to make $100k if we sell at $20m and $600k if we sell
at $40m (currently valued at $20mish). That's pre tax.

~~~
eps
That's underwhelming.

~~~
nojvek
Well that’s what you get when you go for VC money. VC’s want the least risk
possible for their money. So they will put themselves the first. Always. As an
entrepreneur, your choice is to go with another VC. However VCs are short in
supply, so the best option is to bootstrap and take the least amount of money

------
pfarnsworth
I was employee 30 at a startup. I worked there about 3.5 years, and then left.
The company was acquired a year later. I made about $115,000, which frankly is
a lot less than I would have made at a public company. My friend at Twitter
during the same timeframe made close to $1M, and my friend I worked with at
the startup left to join Facebook and also made over $1M.

------
stevejohnson
At a startup that folded, $0. (Failing is an exit!) At a startup acquired by a
larger company, about $20k. Neither made up for the delta vs market rate
salary.

~~~
curlcntr
Yeah, my first exited to $0 as well.

~~~
q845712
I had one of those too!

------
trelliscoded
After taxes and interest on the purchase loan, about $485k. The golden
handcuffs the acquirer wanted ended up being worth more than that, though.

------
dmitrygr
Was young and stupid. Joined a startup (Kno formely Kakai) as #12 employee.
Made $0. Would have been negative amount if I hadn't ripped up my early
exercise papers before leaving. Company took O($xxxM) and due to mismanagement
& nepotism sold for O($xM). Nobody made any money. Some lost a lot.

------
anontechworker
Started at a company that technically was not a startup at the point I joined
(10 years old — 300 employees). I got lucky and 6 months in the company was
acquired and all my stock vested immediately. Made about $15k but was given
$200k in RSUs at the new company. I can’t complain.

------
magneticnorth
I got lucky; they had a successful IPO and I made around 150k based on working
there 1.5 years. I joined fairly late (employee 400-something) at a startup
that was very secretive about their finances and customers, but clearly doing
well, if you were paying attention:

They had taken on a relatively small amount of VC funding when I joined, so
just doing the math on the number of high-quality employees and the fact that
they were making market-rate salary offers made it obvious that they had been
successfully running on their business model for a long time, even though they
wouldn't disclose finances or customer numbers to non-employees. And sure
enough, they eventually IPO'ed as a company that had been (mostly) profitable
for a while.

------
gwbas1c
About $2500. It was basically a lousy tip for about 14 months work.

Some context: The initial offer was either higher salary and lower equity, or
lower salary and higher equity. The difference in pay was $5000 / year. Given
the nature of the exit, I felt like a decent thing to do was at least make up
the difference in pay. (The terms of the deal were confidential.)

Things were eventually "made right" by the new owner.

The problem with startup equity is that employees almost always have little
bargaining power and always are kept in the dark about the real value of the
equity. It almost always turns into a lottery ticket... Some people make out
well, others don't, and always for reasons out of the employees control.

~~~
dennisgorelik
> always are kept in the dark about the real value of the equity

Why would shareholders stay in the dark? Is it because these employees-
shareholders are not curious enough to request information about the company
they own?

~~~
gwbas1c
Because employee-shareholders are NOT owners. The system is compensation, and
in practice is designed to keep employee-shareholders out of all "ownership"
tasks.

Equity is really a benefit that's part of compensation; it's not the same as
voting rights. I like equity because I feel like I have "skin in the game,"
but I never consider it ownership.

A simpler way is: you are only an owner if you have >= 1% and some kind of
voting rights.

------
aws_ls
I joined a company which had already IPO'd, 1 year before I joined. And had
had 14 years of its runway. They gave me some options, which would mature in 5
years. During that period, the stock exploded. Which the company founders,
themselves never expected, else they would have given off much less to
employees. Some other employees who had the stock matured, sold it.

They gave me stock options worth 300 $ but it increased 2000 times, in a span
of 10 years. It increased so much, that I sold it eventually(to avoid all eggs
in one basket). Got myself a house. Loan free. And started my own startup.
Which I run till date.

~~~
rasikjain
hi aws_ls, thanks for sharing. Is there a way to contact you. my email is in
the profile. Thanks :-)

------
xivzgrev
First company if I had chosen to exercise when I left maybe 10k. A second
company I chose to give up 5k in salary to get some shares which I opted not
to exercise when I left. Now, I follow these rules:

1) optimize for cash. Stock is cherry on top. 2) if weighing two offers the
one with RSUs should be weighted more. No "handcuffs" needing to pay to
exercise if you leave.

Number 2 is referring to later stage private company. I haven't worked at a
company where strike price is pennies or whatever, or a public company where
you can sell at time of exercise. Then handcuffs may be worth it.

------
jaggederest
I've worked for around 10-15 startups now over the years. Only one meaningful
exit or equity:

NEWR from 2009 to 2011, employee #20 or so, 20k shares (0.05%), exercised most
of my vested ~10k before leaving, sold post-IPO-lockup at ~$36/share for a
gross of around $385k . Would have gone up if I had waited to sell, to around
$1m now. Most of my former coworkers are independently wealthy now, solid
folks who all absolutely deserve it. Should have negotiated for more shares or
cash, stayed longer, and exercised all vested shares. Live and learn I guess.

------
woutr_be
I probably lost about $3,500-4,000. Startup was having financial issues, and
got last minute funding. People were asking to give up salary for more equity.
I was employee #1, and really enjoyed working there, so I took the deal. I
truly believed with had a great product, but that's not enough for a company
to succeed. Company went out of business 6 months later.

Not a huge financial loss, but I learnt a valuable lesson.

------
kabdib
Five out of seven startups were zero. One was $17K, another was $2K. At all
but one place the salaries were not great.

I have done far, far better at larger companies in terms of salary and stock
programs. If I'd stayed one of the big companies, I'd likely be able to retire
right now (not that I will -- I like writing software and I plan to continue
doing it as long as I can, ideally well into my 70s).

------
macklemoreshair
First employee. Company sold for $1B in 6 years.

$2.95m before taxes.

~~~
deanmoriarty
How much did you have when you initially joined, that got diluted to ~0.3%? I
guess somewhere in the ballpark of 1.5%?

~~~
macklemoreshair
Yup

------
tastyham
I made about $75k when my last company IPOed. I had worked there for 2 years
before and had a relatively junior salary and not many options. I had a range
of options at different strike prices, they averaged out to about 100% gain,
but some were more and some were less.

People who had been there long had both lower option prices and more options
and made quite a bit.

------
neilk
~$1.5K, circa 2003

This is the one startup I worked for that exited. I was only there for a
little over a year. But for a few months, they couldn't make payroll and
issued stock instead.

Ironically it was the project that I was working on which ultimately led to
the acquisition. Not really because I was writing brilliant code though, so
I'm not bitter about that.

------
shartshooter
first job out of school, started as an entry level at a startup with ~$20MM in
funding, employee #60 or so. Stuck around six years through an additional
hundred $MM and an exit for $3-400MM and was the most senior director at the
time.

Walked away with $140k after taxes

------
darkstar_16
One of the first employees, the company got sold in about 3 years from
starting, enterprise space but very little revenue and a frankly half baked
product. I think of it as a team acquisition, made about 5k and 40k in RSUs to
vest over 4 years.

------
jinonoel
Startup 1 (2 years): $0. Acqui-hired for less than total investment raised. I
had long left by then but had vested shares which were wiped out.

Startup 2 (6 months): $10k. Mainly from the profit-sharing of the startup
incubator, not from actual equity.

------
exit234234
$0 at one and $80,000 at another. I spent several thousand on something I
wanted, and banked the rest. My boss bought a nice car. Oh, and a third sold
and the buyer had a clause where if you quit you got shit.

------
icedchai
startup1: $0 (company went bankrupt, wiped out stock holders, reformed, went
bankrupt again.) startup2: $0 (acquired, but all common holders were wiped out
since it all went to preferred stockholders.) startup3: $0 (did not exercise
my options. company is still going, has not been acquired.) startup4: $10K
(did not make up for my salary decrease when I joined.) startup5: still
working on it... not optimistic.

The good news: none of this has mattered. After 20 years of work, I've done
well through traditional savings and investment.

------
avelis
40k and it was small for how long I was there. I heard others got more for
being with the company less time I was. A bit of wisdom here. Be selfish. Get
everything you reasonably can.

~~~
poc_m
By 'Be selfish', do you mean aggressively negotiate for more? Or sell as much
as you can on the next liquidation event?

------
cannonedhamster
Startup 1: $0 (company still going but options are worthless) Startup 2: $0 -
options cancelled in lieu of ~$2k in bonus.

------
master_yoda_1
-$6k The startup was a scam (as most of them in silicon valley). I later came to know and left after 1 and half years.

------
spoonie
$1000 from a part-time gig quasi startup, and $0 from a startup that got
acquired.

------
seddin
This thread is depressing I´m not even earning 1k/month here in Spain.

~~~
deivid
Move to the netherlands if your english is good. You can make at least
50k/year here

~~~
ff_
Same here in Finland!

------
pjbk
Employee #40 at a medical device company after working as a contractor for one
year and then asked me to join. Received a first round of ESOP options a bit
under the valuation price ($20 at the time). Then RSUs as bonuses for the next
5 years. After company started to ship, shares went up and even reached over
$100 at one point. Sold half of my stock between $70 and $90 and made around
$450k before taxes. We were partially lucky that those were the recession
years and investors were looking to put their money in less risky ventures,
and as far away as possible from real estate.

I quit a couple of years before the company got bought by a major player,
leaving my remaining unvested stock which would have been worth another $300k
at the moment of the acquisition. Good money for me as my first job in the US,
although not as good as a bunch of colleagues before me that were turned into
senior management and made millions. Loved the job, and I would have stayed if
they hadn't assigned me a new boss that, albeit not a bad person, his
professional demeanor was awful.

Have worked for 3 other startups since then. The next one, also a medical
device company, looked promising. Joined as their first contractor/employee
but I could not secure equity. They also changed directions on their
development so I left. Salary was not terribly low but half of what I usually
make. They are currently supposedly doing well and are shipping product after
5 years, and received around $30M funding mostly from a Silicon Valley VC last
year to accelerate their growth. I know other employees left after me for
similar reasons. They got compensated even less than me.

The following one again as a first contractor/employee in the connected home
space with some promises for equity if the company soared (founders had done
that before and were successful, with strong ties to Apple). Salary was not
superb considering my skills, but above market. However after 2 years the
founders could not do a buyback and the company was absorbed by their single
investor, a big security business that was just in the process of rolling
their IPO. They only offered us employees options at market price with a lot
of restrictions. They were also going to reduce my salary and obviously I
didn't like the terms.

Currently almost two years at a SF startup, with all the pains of working and
living in the preposterous SF zeitgeist under a small startup company salary.
Own more than 1% of the company but I know it will get diluted after we
receive our series A, and where I don't have much control of the
circumstances.

Before all these deeds, founded my own startup with a friend right out of
college, mainly building industrial systems. We were naive and business inept,
never made serious money but managed to stay alive for five years doing some
cool customer projects, having fun and learning a lot. Plus the gratifying
feeling of having control over our destiny, even if it was a bit for a small
period of time. Hands down one of the best experiences of my life.

There is a reason startups - technology startups in particular - are declining
in number, specially in the US. The field is too mature, consolidated and
institutionalized now. There are some niches and pockets of opportunity,
however competition is intense. Sadly most affairs and regulations are rigged
against employees, and if you are not being compensated at market level with
all the associated perks, you will never get rewarded as you deserve as an
employee compared to a founder or investor in the minuscule event that the
business is successful.

If you really want to be part of a startup, first try to work at a FAANG type
of company even if the idea does not appeal to you. Leverage their massive
resources to learn and grow your wealth. Save enough to a point that you are
comfortable and don't need to worry about money anymore, whatever that means
to you. Then, and only then, if you still feel the need to scratch your
entrepreneurial itch, make your move. The full monty - not as an employee but
a founder. Your increased experience and business network will further
increase your chances of success. And you will also have come across real
industry problems that desperately need solutions. Win-win.

In this age where work is changing so fast and the future of security for
workers is uncertain, hoping for the best and planning for the worst has more
relevance than ever.

My 2c.

------
plasticchris
So far 0$ (I would guess this is the median, as most do not succeed)

~~~
orangecat
Yes. And even "successes" often don't result in better total compensation than
you would have gotten at a FAANG.

------
mgarfias
~ 25k gross

I was the 2nd employee too.

------
FlyingSideKick
$230k

~~~
dskrvk
Details? What company stage did you join, how long did you spend there, what
was the exit like, etc.?

------
knodi123
$5k.

------
owyn
This is pretty late, but I was feeling retrospective on a sunday evening so
let's see... the tldr;

#0 = 0

#1 = 0, ~500k options on day 1 eventually underwater and unexercised

#2 = 0

#3 = 25k

#4 = 0, but left unexercised options that were worth 500k about 8 years later

#5 = 0

#6 = 100k with additional options exercised and held

#7 = current gig, tbd

Background: I'm a software developer first, a good architect and team-lead but
a reluctant manager.

startup #0 was a summer gig doing "web consulting" before my last year of
college. I got put on a huge e-commerce project with tight deadlines (in C++).
Slept under my desk for a few weeks and got it shipped. I rearranged my double
major to a single degree to graduate early and the bigger company hired me
away from the consulting gig. They had just gone public and were pretty flush.
Turned out the web consulting shop actually got acquired and staying would
have been more lucrative. Oh well.

startup #1 went public shortly before I was hired, ended up with approx $500k
in options which were underwater by the time I could vest. Learned a lot about
options, it was the first dot com bust. Had some great experiences, went to
India, went to Japan, went to SF. Learned a lot about running software dev
projects with global teams.

startup #2 was a combination consulting + java middleware/framework company,
which was kind of a new idea at the time (again, post dot com crisis, pre-
rails, java was new). We were building VB6 for the web, basically. Doing
consulting work to eat our own dog food using our own tools. A few dry months
led to missing a few paychecks here and there, and it would always take a
really long time to get re-paid. Eventually our largest customer left and that
wasn't enough work to sustain the whole company. Learned a lot though,
especially about software schedule estimation (it's not THAT hard if you
really put the prep work in).

startup #3 I was a co-founder, we were aqui-hired for zero up front but future
promises/profit share etc. Ran as a small subsidiary of the parent company so
we stayed independent and sank/swam on our own merits. After a year of zero
salary (credit cards) we could eventually pay ourselves and got up to 6
employees and generated enough profit to be sustainable but I lost my interest
in the product space. Sold my fraction for about @25k and moved on. Also
learned a lot on that project. Parent company is still around and from what I
can tell, very profitable.

startup #4 was a job offer from someone I met at startup #1. It was Ad-tech,
which I have come to loathe, but I grinded it out there for a few years. When
I left, I was so burned out I didn't exercise any of my shares which if I
remember would have been about a $1k check. Of course, a mere 8 years later
they were quite successful and those shares would have been worth about $500k.

I never took vacation at any of those previous companies, a span of about 10
years. At that point I was able to take a year off. Unlike #2 and #3, #4 were
solidly profitable and paid well and I was able to save a bunch of money. Paid
off all credit cards and will aim to never have debt again.

startup #5 was a facebook game company. Some kind of farming game thing, but
not the famous one, a ripoff of a ripoff. Still, I met a bunch of great people
there and learned a lot about cranking out content to pay the bills. At one
point, there was a rumor of an acquisition by the famous farming game company,
but that never came to pass.

startup #6 was a good experience, I worked with talented folks, got to travel
to Europe for work, had the 401k etc. That's the place I worked the longest
and it was managed the best out of all of the various dysfunctional places
I've worked. Got to go to conferences, travel, work on open source projects,
company wide hackathons that actually ended up in the product. Good work/life
balance. After 6 or so years a new leadership team came on board and things
started to change. I got an offer from #7 and decided to take it. I was able
to exercise some options before they expired. Sold some and held the rest. The
experience from #4 informed that choice. In the past I let a lot of options
expire when I'd leave a place because I wasn't that personally enthusiastic
about any more. Now I see it as leaving the bet on the table that might hit in
10 years, but if/when it does it will be worth it.

startup #7 is tbd. It's an interesting project, but it's back to the 60 hour /
week grind with a bad commute and much less work/life balance.

I'm in my mid 40's now and I've pretty much decided that I'm done with the
startup thing after this. If #7 doesn't hit then my next gig I'll go to some
BigCo and apply all this weird knowledge and experience making software
engineering teams function.

I do have savings, more than most, but definitely not enough to retire yet.
Startups tend to underpay on salary. One side effect of all this is that I
also have no family/kids/etc. I think that's partly due to choice but also
partly due to having worked my ass off for the last 20+ years. I worked
weekends, holidays, and 100+ hour weeks. I bought tickets for shows and never
went. I've had my laptop open on Christmas day troubleshooting something or
other that I don't even remember now. I was always able to do that because I
never had a family. In the long run, I don't think the companies I worked for
were any better off for that sacrifice. In the short term it always seemed
necessary but in retrospect, the forces that made these companies successful
or not were always much bigger than me.

~~~
tinkerteller
I really have only one question... why did you kept doing more startups as
employee? I totally understand people doing this as a founder but just don't
get it otherwise.

~~~
owyn
That's a great question... I don't know!

I have done the "founder" thing once (at #3), and at one point I had to lay
off employees that I had just hired. That sucked. I think when I'm just the
technical lead, I can work hard on that and let revenue be someone else's
problem. Also, most of the companies I've worked for have been founded by
people that I know who asked me to come on board and take a senior technical
role. Ultimately that's led to relatively low pay and low ownership stakes and
a couple of decades of wasted time. So... don't do what I did?

------
newusertoday
startup1: 0$

startup2: 0$

startup3: 20000$

------
shawn
All: Watch out for survivor bias.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qd3erAPI9w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qd3erAPI9w)

~~~
linkmotif
Don’t worry it’s pretty clear from this thread there are practically no
survivors anyway...

~~~
i_made_a_booboo
This genuinely made me chuckle. So damn accurate.

