
Why Germans pay cash for almost everything - DanBC
https://qz.com/262595/why-germans-pay-cash-for-almost-everything/
======
mtmail
According to
[https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah...](https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzahlung_in_Deutschland.png)
methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit
card
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash)).

> "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to
> Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation
> that peaked in 1923 [...]"

> "the German tendency to settle up in cash undeniably reflects the fact that
> for much of the last century, Germany has been either on the brink of, in
> the midst of, or struggling to recover from, disaster."

As a German I call that theory into question. Our currency has been stable for
60+ years. It would've been nice if other countries with recent disasters
(war, hyperinflation, sanctions) and their attitude toward currency was
compared against.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
As a German

a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster

b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs

Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

~~~
codegeek
As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay
cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand
and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast
even the chip enabled ones.

Cash workflow:

\- Cashier tells you the total amount

\- You look in your wallet/purse

\- You spend time counting exact change if you do have it

\- If not, you take out a rounded bill/note (say $20)

\- Cashier takes the bill/note, punches in the register and then spends a few
seconds giving you the change back.

Credit card workflow:

\- Cashier tells you the total amount

\- You look in your wallet/purse

\- You swipe card/insert in chip reader

\- Done

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
Cash workflow:

\- Cashier tells you the total amount

\- I get a 10 EUR note from my trouser pocket

\- Cashier gives back money

\- I put money in trouser pocket

\- Done

\- Home: I put all spare money in a large glass jar

Credit card workflow:

\- Cashier tells you the total amount

\- You look in your wallet/purse

\- You swipe card/insert in chip reader

\- You insert PIN number

\- You shield your PIN entrie from the people next to you

\- You tell people too close to back off

\- Chip reader did not work because of humidity

\- You insert PIN again

\- You tolerate the angry stares from people behind you who think you're
either stupid or broke

\- You wait 5 sec for transaction to fish

\- You put card back in wallet

\- You put wallet back in trouser pocket

\- Done

~~~
romwell
Note for the American readers:

in the glorious lands across the ocean, chip cards of all kinds use a PIN
instead of a signature, which makes way more sense anyway. Chip & sign is an
American abomination.

~~~
plopz
Is this something that only triggers above a certain threshold? On the east
coast, whenever I go to the grocery store, its just insert chip and press ok.
I've never had to sign or enter a pin.

~~~
svanwaa
This is called "expedited checkout". This is a merchant option to help speed
up the checkout process. However the merchant is then taking all
responsibility for fraudulent transactions.

------
m_mueller
As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank
is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar
attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons:

1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked
into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar
with credit card. It's also not rare for people to show you that discontempt.
This trains people into behaving.

2) Switzerland, as most of Germany, is a mostly urbanized place with good
public transport and facilities close to where people live. Meaning, there's
way less weekly mall-shopping going on than in less dense countries like the
US or France. So, the average total price is lower since shopping trips are
more frequent, often about every second or third day after work.

3) Security concerns. For a long time CC were as insecure as the US ones, with
a simple swipe of the magnetic stripe being sufficient, and CC fraud was
relatively frequent. So, many people have an instinct of only using CC when
necessary, and if at all possible not in public places. Debit card on the
other hand have always been relatively secure (6-digit pin code, 3 tries), so
they are used more often, maybe more so than in the German example since Swiss
banks have pushed them since around 20 years ago.

~~~
intsunny
> 1) CC is slow

While the CC may or may not be slow. In the 5+ months I've now been living in
Germany, I've noticed that people are very keen to pay with exact change if
they can dig it up. This is an even slower process, but also seems to be the
norm.

~~~
romanovcode
Also, almost every store accept touch-pay method where you just touch your CC
with the terminal and it is payed without entering pin or providing signature.

Only works if the amount is less then 25 EUR but still it is much faster then
cash.

~~~
herbst
This is only true for big chain things. Pretty much everywhere in Europe I've
been.

~~~
herbst
Was giving it a try in Salzburg AT for 2 days now. Haven't found a single
machine that takes contact less chips so far. Not even big chains

------
stupidcar
I spent a few weeks working in Munich and was surprised when I first went into
a supermarket to buy lunch. The payment process was like stepping back in time
20 years in the UK. No self-checkout kiosks, just a single cashier, and a line
of people all paying in cash.

It worked, but it was a much slower process than was I was used to. I guess
the stereotype of German super-efficiency made me assume they would be quick
to adopt such technologies. But I think perhaps that is countered by a degree
of conservatism about switching away from systems that are understood, and
proven to work.

~~~
DanielleMolloy
I am a German living in the Netherlands right now and find that quite annoying
every time I come back to Germany, too. Before NFC I would have agreed that
card payments are just much, much slower than cash. Most shops in Germany
won't let you pay by card if the total amount is less than 5€, so you would
always carry cash around anyway. NFC and self-checkout are quite widely spread
in NL; in fact a small supermarket at a university here only has self-checkout
systems with NFC.

Often heard (from Germans with some international experience and its point of
view) that innovations need around two years to arrive in the heads of
Germany. Skepticism towards new ideas tends to impress people more than open-
minded consideration of new developments. This may change at the moment as
much of the younger generation gains lots of international experience and is
exposed to frequent technological developments and innovative start-up
culture.

------
jupp0r
As a German, I think ot's always intersting to get an outsiders perspective.
The article strikes me as absurd, though.

There is a deep caution against technology here, especially if it's foreign
technology. There were numerous attempts by German banks to reinvent the wheel
with incompatible payment systems (Geldkarte, ...) none of which could be used
for online payment. All of them failed. I would also counter the efficiency
argument: having recently visited Norway for vacation, I'm still impressed
with the efficiency of grocery shopping where everyone pays with their credit
cards. Imho it's a mixture of privacy concerns and generally negative
attitudes towards technology.

~~~
k__
But I have the feeling credit cards are getting more mainstream lately.

When I moved to Stuttgart 10 years ago I only could pay with EC card at
supermarkets, now I can pay with credit card.

With the RFIDs they even got much faster, I often don't have to enter a PIN or
give a signature, just wave my credit card over the terminal and be done with
it.

Also I can withdraw money from all ATMs of all banks without any fees.

~~~
rb2k_
I moved from Stuttgart to the US 5 years ago. I am always delighted to come
back and see that I need less and less cash. It blew my mind when even Aldi
and Lidl jumped on the credit card train.

Looking forward to the day when I can visit Germany without having to go to
the ATM.

------
cleansy
German living in UK here. I think the flaky-currency argument is non-sense. I
see this argument mostly in anglo-american articles when the authors try to
figure out why germans are still mostly cash-transactional.

I paid in cash back home mostly because it's faster. Cashiers are used to
calculate the change and quick getting it out. CC/Debit card payments take a
bit longer, since you almost only have chipped payments, get the device to
work, enter pin, wait for receipt that you have to sign sometimes, etc. I was
never pick pocketed on the street, so this wasn't an issue either.

I only started paying by card with the introduction of NFC/ "contactless"
payments, since this one is faster.

Also, the UK coins are quite heavy having €10 worth of coins is half the
volume at least compared to the old pounds.

------
pascalxus
The question isn't why germans pay cash. the question is, why would you do it
any other way?? I'll tell you why. In other countries we allow credit card
companies to tax the masses. By creating regulations that prevent merchants
from charging a different price for cash vs credit, you effectively force
everyone to pay 2.5% extra for every purchase. That 2.5% goes straight to the
credit card companies, even if you pay cash! So, you have no choice but to use
a credit card, so you can recover 1.5% on the 2.5% tax your paying.

~~~
omni
> That 2.5% goes straight to the credit card companies, even if you pay cash!

You're going to have to explain how this makes any sense at all

~~~
Pxtl
CC company charges 2.5% of overhead on all CC-based purchases. Vendor
agreement prohibits passing that markup over to customers, so instead the
vendor must pass that cost onto _everybody_. The net effect is that cash
payers are subsidizing the credit card companies.

To encourage this arrangement, the CC companies offer a kickback to the people
who use the card, like 1% in cash back or "points" or whatever.

This creates a game-theory problem where the customer is encouraged to always
pay with their card, because otherwise they're wasting a percent or two.

In countries where vendor agreements prohibiting passing the fee onto
consumers is illegal, stores are able to ensure that cash payers are not
subsidizing card payers... But consumers may rebel at the extra fee for paying
with card and choose to take their business somewhere else altogether.

~~~
briandear
Actually in France where I have a tiny hotel, our fee is 1.5%. High volume
merchants can negotiate even lower rates. There is also a savings for us by
encouraging credit cards. Cash is a pain in the ass in France because you have
to go to a bank to deposit it and we are 30 minutes from the nearest bank.

Then there is security. If our guests paid us all in cash, I now have the very
real problem of having thousands of euros in cash unless I want to waste an
hour of my time going to a bank all the time. Then also in France, there is a
law preventing cash purchases over €1000.

There is also a guest security issue – why would you want guests to be
carrying hundreds of euros in cash when they travel?

For businesses, cash handling costs money too. There is a time cost, there is
a security cost as well. Rarely does an employee skim money from the credit
cards, but in shops it happens all the time.

------
paulsutter
Use of credit cards in the US really took off in 1980 when interest rates were
deregulated[1], credit cards were then heavily promoted. I remember at that
time, to use a credit card in a grocery store had a social stigma. But now,
many people here rarely use cash.

What are the credit card interest rates in Germany? (In the US credit card
interest rates can be 20-30%). Maybe there's less incentive to promote use of
cards in Germany, or maybe transaction fees are regulated to make small
transactions impractical?

[1]
[https://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/bank/bt_9805.html](https://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/bank/bt_9805.html)

~~~
dingo_bat
I don't even know what is the rate on my credit card. I use it all the time. I
just pay back the full amount every month. I think that's the best way to use
it. You don't need to carry cash. You don't need to pay interest.

------
ijafri
I have experimented with it too, and you may as well, leave your credit cards
at home, and only use 'Cash' ... you will think twice before paying for $100
consumer item ... whereas using Credit Card, you barely had noticed the price
tag .... so bottom line is, Yes, paying through Cash can 'significantly' cut
your expenses on 'extravagant spendings'.

~~~
wott
That's even more true with small spendings: with cash, you easily see the
amount stocked in your wallet decrease item after item, shop after shop, drink
after drink; you also need to "refill" at the cash dispenser when it gets
empty so that reminds you that you have already spent the XX or XXX € you had
taken 2 days ago; you also may not be bothered to refill and opt for a lower
priced item, or a lesser quantity of items, or do without the item.

If you start paying small amounts with a card, it is too easy and also you
don't keep track of your spending rate, you don't "feel" it, so you end up
spending more.

(After all, that's the point of it, shopkeepers wouldn't bother losing time
and money to offer card payment if they got no benefit from it.)

~~~
ijafri
Yes that was the actual point, with CC you don't get the feel or pain of
losing money ... When paying through cash you physically feel losing an amount
of money. Humans.

------
mindcirkus
I think you'd have to dig deeper in the debt argument, and what it has to do
with cash.

> "But the real point isn’t that Germans love cash. It’s that—for the same
> historical reasons—they loathe debt. (Armchair anthropologists have also
> long noted that German word for debt—Schulden—comes from the word for guilt,
> Schuld.)"

Sweden has the same culture and words for debt. "skuld", and the saying "Den
som är satt i skuld är icke fri" ("He/She who is in debt is not free").

Yet Swedes likes using Credit Cards a lot. But as the author might say we have
a lot higher household debt than Germany.

But Switzerland also has high household debt. And as another commenter notes
Switzerland has the same cash behavior as Germany. I'd like to see some data
on that though.

[https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-
debt.htm](https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm)

I do feel like an armchair anthropologist though.

------
lima
As a German, I disagree. I've had many discussions about the upcoming NFC
payment options and the main argument was privacy.

~~~
lower
I (German) have never used NFC payments and was curious how that would work
with my bank. Turns out they want me to install an app on my phone for this,
which is definitely not going to happen.

~~~
miguelrochefort
> Turns out they want me to install an app on my phone for this, which is
> definitely not going to happen.

Why not?

~~~
CrystalGamma
In my case, it would be that I trust my phone much less than a single-purpose
card.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
This seems counter-intuitive to me. The author argues it's due to
hyperinflation from the pre-WW2 era, concluding that "People in countries that
suffered banking crises quite sensibly often prefer to save in cash." If there
really is some national memory of that crisis, wouldn't they actually prefer
to actually avoid saving in cash? During the hyperinflation period your cash
could lose half of its value overnight. This just doesn't make sense.

~~~
zmk_
I fully agree, if anything this would be about bank runs. Also it is a cherry
picked example, I can cherry pick one too. Poland had a hyperinflation episode
in 1920s and another high inflation event in the 1990s; yet card adoption (and
adoption of innovations in consumer banking) is among the highest in Europe.

The differentiating factor is whether a solution is supported by the merchant.
If it is, you will see adoption. Merchants in Germany do not support CCs and
limit debit cards, so people do not use them. They do not do that partly
because they can get away with it and partly because the fees they are being
charged are high (both per transaction and per POS). Naturally there is room
for the government to step in here. E.g., said Poland lowered the maximum
allowable fee Visa/Mastercard can charge a few years back; along with that
went away minimum spending limits on transactions in shops.

This will change though as Germany starts moving to a cashless economy as,
e.g., Sweden is doing.

------
arvidkahl
Most brick & mortar stores in Germany will not offer debit card payments under
10 Euros, since the fees they have to pay are extremely high. Most clerks will
frown upon small card payments for that reason, and sometimes outright decline
the payment, even if that means no purchase happening.

Credit cards are rarely accepted in any store but larger ones in malls. Most
Germans, and that was pretty spot-on in the article, don't even have a credit
card. You can imagine how detrimental that is to building a German SaaS
business. Stripe and the like have started going into the ELV market, which is
pretty much a direct debit payment - and you need to pass quite a few
restrictions to even be allowed to offer ELV as a vendor.

All in all, it is both a consumer, banking and a merchant issue, and it
severely limits the German E-Commerce landscape in terms of payment solutions.
Paypal has taken over German online payments, since it can be linked with a
bank account. Credit cards? Not so much.

~~~
kerkeslager
I can see why this is problematic for the e-commerce industry, but you seem to
be saying this is problematic for the economy as a whole. If that's what
you're saying, could you provide some justification for this claim?

~~~
arvidkahl
If you want to see e-commerce as a relevant branch of the economy, it's
stifling growth.

Funny enough, banks are now charging withdrawing fees for cash. So if you only
ever buy things with cash, you will loose money on just acquiring it. Net loss
for the non-banking economy.

~~~
kerkeslager
> If you want to see e-commerce as a relevant branch of the economy

I don't, and I don't see much evidence that anyone outside the e-commerce
industry should want to see that.

> Funny enough, banks are now charging withdrawing fees for cash. So if you
> only ever buy things with cash, you will loose money on just acquiring it.
> Net loss for the non-banking economy.

It's fairly simple to avoid ATM fees. Every bank and credit union I've ever
banked at had a network of ATMs, and there's usually no fee for cash back at
grocery stores. In contrast, credit cards _always_ charge a fee to the
receiving business. Additionally, many workers receive some or all of their
pay in cash, cutting banks out of the equation entirely.

I don't think you can reasonably claim that credit cards take less from the
non- banking economy than cash.

~~~
arvidkahl
Not in Germany though. Cash salaries don't exists (outside of temp jobs),
cash-back from grocery stores is still new and rare. The ATM withdrawal fees
are the actual problem, they have been recently introduced, and they happen no
matter which network is being used.

------
rocking_duck
As a german, this techno-phobic attitude was really getting to me for the
longest time. It's just so incredible convenient not having to scramble for
coins when taking the tram and many other examples. Living in London, I rarely
take my wallet with me anymore. Apple Pay and my Mondo card is all I need.

Come to think of it, some time in the not so distant future, Germany will
probably have the last laugh once the entire electronic payment system
collapsed under the Next Big Cyberattack (tm)... insert coin here.

------
joezydeco
" _German aversion to mortgage debt is part of the reason why the country has
some of the lowest homeownership rates in the developed world._ "

That's not just because of an aversion to debt. German Banks require a much
larger down payment for their mortgages. Usually 30% or more.

Banks will also look at the physical age of the borrower. They will not hand
out 20-30 year loans to someone in their 60s.

~~~
ChemicalWarfare
In the US you are protected by the Equal Credit Opportunity Act so the bank
can't turn you away based on your age. That said though - you do need to show
sufficient income to qualify.

------
Cenk
In my experience Germans use cash due to privacy concerns — they don’t want
anyone knowing what they buy.

------
killercup
It's funny that Lidl, the store in the picture at the top of the article, is
one of the stores I always pay with debit card in Germany. They have great NFC
support and don't give a damn if I pay my 79¢ bread with card.

~~~
patrickk
Chains like Lidl are competing in the ultra-competitive German discount
supermarket sector (Germans loooove discount chains, there are so many in
Germany, and the price of groceries is therefore cheap on average), so it
makes sense they'd be quick to deploy it.

------
Spooky23
They're smart.

I went all cash a few months ago for everything except hotels and rental cars.
It's very liberating. Credit cards give you 3-5% incentives to spend because
you spend more. Since going all cash, we spend in average 15% less.

~~~
swah
Here in Brazil most places prefer debit or credit card and always have a hard
time finding change.

Money is mostly for buying stuff on the street (bottled water, papers).

------
lmm
I suspect the main reason is that in a safe country like Germany people feel
more comfortable carrying around large amounts of cash. Japan is
extraordinarily cash-oriented, but it works because people don't get mugged;
even if you leave your wallet on a train you can expect to get it back with
all the cash still inside.

~~~
metafunctor
Lots of countries that are very safe use mostly cards instead of cash. Like
the all of the Nordics.

------
Hersentooped
> One explanation is that, as researchers have found, memories of
> hyperinflation have quite a bit of staying power. People in countries that
> suffered banking crises quite sensibly often prefer to save in cash [...]
> For the same historical reasons—they loathe debt.

This explanation seems absurd (or at least counter-intuitive). If your fear is
hyperinflation the two things to do would be to avoid hoarding cash that can
be worthless tomorrow and to buy as much tangible stuff as possible with a
debt you will have to pay back with this devaluated currency.

------
jurgenwerk
I thought it was the other way around - that the reason German people pay cash
is simply because shops and bars refuse to support credit cards. Whenever I
visit Berlin I'm so frustrated because I have to plan my spending ahead and
make sure I have enough cash in my pocket before I go buy anything.

~~~
martinald
Agree, such a pain. Especially in restaurants if you take a large group out
and want to pick the bill up. It has got better but I have been totally caught
out with this on one of my first visits to Berlin with a fairly pricey group
dinner and I physically cannot take more than €250 out of the ATM a day
without taking cash out on CC which involves horrendous cash advance fees.

I also don't buy this cc fee argument. It's regulated (and low) in the EU,
perhaps 1-2%. This _must_ be lower than the cost of storing cash, counting
cash, paying it in to the bank, transporting it, getting fraudulent notes,
people giving wrong change, etc etc.

The other annoying thing is DB machines not taking visa/mastercard _and_ no
notes over €10 (though this may have changed recently), which is all you get
out of an ATM when you land at the airport. Such a hassle.

I hope Berlin can fix this and the BER airport situation one day.

~~~
kuschku
EC cards have 0.125% fees. That’s an entire order of magnitude cheaper than
CC.

Of course no one is going to support CC if they can save that much money.

~~~
martinald
If your gross profit (not including rent and other fixed costs) at a
restaurant is, say, 80%, do you still think 1% CC fees are silly? To me this
seems like ridiculous premature optimisation. If I go to Germany and I'm
having a meal with clients I'll phone ahead and see if they accept CC and
won't visit if they don't.

~~~
kuschku
> If your gross profit (not including rent and other fixed costs) at a
> restaurant is, say, 80%, do you still think 1% CC fees are silly?

That's a question, but that's not what things look like.

Many German businesses are operating at razor-thin margins, or even at losses.
From farmers (which lose around 13ct for every liter milk sold) to small
restaurants (often making losses on all of the food, and only minor profit on
the drinks) to any other kind of business.

If you are a 4 people company and you're trying to compete (and do so
successfully) with american multinational chains, then you don't have enough
profits to pay 7% CC fees. You'll be lucky if you can afford the 30€/month +
0.125% EC fees, and many businesses can't even do that.

> If I go to Germany and I'm having a meal with clients I'll phone ahead and
> see if they accept CC and won't visit if they don't.

Trust me, these businesses prefer not having your business. You'd only make
losses for them.

~~~
martinald
7% CC fees? Are you crazy? The EU regulated it at less than 1%.

~~~
kuschku
The EU regulated VISA and MasterCard, and only since a year ago.

AMEX still takes 7% fees, even today, and even MasterCard and VISA could take
those fees in 2015 still.

~~~
martinald
Ok, don't accept AMEX then (that's common for a lot of shops to not accept in
the UK).

It's definitely not 7% though, considering Stripe offers AMEX processing for
1.4% in the EU.

Can't see any reason not to accept MC/Visa now though.

~~~
kuschku
> Can't see any reason not to accept MC/Visa now though.

Still 10 times higher fees than with the German card systems. If your profit
margin is 1.4%, you can't afford 2.2% credit card fees. And if you increase
the price, all customers go to the cheaper competitor.

German stores are in a reaaaaal close competition with these things.

------
cocoa19
In America, I would prefer to use a debit card or cash, but many credit card
issuers offer 1%-3% cash back, meaning, they give back 1%-3% of the purchases
you make.

That amount adds up over time.

~~~
revelation
Because you are paying much more in transaction fees. In the EU, transaction
fees are capped at <<1% so there are no silly cash-back programs.

~~~
dcosson
But you pay those transaction fees whether or not you use a credit card. I
believe there are even laws against charging more for paying with a credit
card (beyond just having credit card minimum like you see at delis and mom and
pop shops).

Yet another example of wealth transfer in the US from the poor (who often
don't have credit cards, or don't have the high rewards ones because they cost
$150+ dollars a year) to the upper middle class.

~~~
gruez
>I believe there are even laws against charging more for paying with a credit
card

not really "laws", more like merchant agreements. also, there's nothing
preventing shops from offering a cash discount, which is effectively the same
thing.

------
alaxsxaq
Maybe it is my German roots, but I share the preference for cash and dislike
of personal debt.

More than 90% of my Brick & Morter purchases are in cash up to about $500. I
stop at an ATM every couple of weeks and withdrawal $300-$500 dollars and I'm
set. Cash is anonymous, quick, a one-time thing (no bills to pay later), and
the standard method of payment in the small (rural) stores I frequent.

Credit cards are reserved for buying gas, large purchases, online
transactions, and travel.

------
david-cako
Credit card stigma is interesting to me. For the individual that would
otherwise be paying with a debit card, why would you not want to earn rewards
on that?

Treat it like real money, pay every month, literally zero downside.

That said, I imagine rewards in the US are much more attractive than
elsewhere, since credit card companies have so much profitability to
distribute.

------
majidazimi
I think tax is the killing factor. Most of small shops don't want to reveal
how much they earn, thus resisting against electronic payments.

------
hardwaresofton
How is Japan not on that list of countries that pay for things primarily in
cash?

------
thesumofall
The article is missing one key piece: how are card payments developing over
time? My personal experience is that things have changed rapidly over the last
years with most larger stores now accepting credit cards and contactless
payments are increasingly becoming normal (just months ago cashiers might have
looked dumbfounded at you when waving your card over the reader).

It is also critical to note that Germany has some of the lowest prices for
groceries. Shops have hence been very slow in offering credit card payments.

------
majewsky
A few months ago, there was some construction going on just outside the
busiest mall in the city center of Dresden. When they dug into the ground,
they accidentally dug a bit too far and cut the internet cable for that mall
(and a few more blocks around it). That was on a Friday evening, so the
replacement cable could not be delivered until Monday.

The entire mall was without internet access and, consequently, all credit card
terminals, EC terminals and ATMs stopped working. If I had not been able to
pay cash (as I always do because of Datensparsamkeit [1]), I would not have
been able to go to the cinema that weekend.

[1] Does the word "Datensparsamkeit" have a good translation in English? It's
sort of an idiosyncrasy of the German language and the German people. It
refers to the practice of protecting one's data by not generating it in the
first place. Cash is datensparsam because it is anonymous, hence the metadata
of my purchase cannot be associated with my identity.

------
cosinetau
There was another article on HN this week that was attempting to predict when
the stock market was going to crash.
[https://isthestockmarketgoingtocrash.com/](https://isthestockmarketgoingtocrash.com/)

There's also been a number of suggestions of the kind of economy that we're
existing in. The most alarming to me is that we're in a debt economy.

Germany struggled to pay it's abhorrent war debt and reparations after WWI,
and I'm curious if rather than the government facing that problem if the
population in the US, or China will instead? What is the big picture these
pieces of information are trying to tell us?

Should we be taking a more cautious approach when it comes to using debt?
(This commentor has no debt, and wants to keep it that way)

------
snakeanus
I am glad, there are some serious privacy issues concerning credit and debit
cards. Not to mention that bringing a third party into this causes all kinds
of issues, such as their ability to block your card at any time or taking a
percentage of the money.

I hope that cryptocurrencies replace cards someday.

------
wmu
A few years ago I was working on some bank software. We had access to bank's
anonymized data, and I was really surprised when figured out what information
is stored with card payments. For instance, I learnt that a guy had bought a
pack of cigarettes in a small town at 12:31, Monday. Then I realized how much
information a bank may posses. And how dangerous it is, because we have no
control on how and who process that info.

That day I decided to pay with cash whenever I can, despite inconvenience. I
prefer cards or bank transfers when buying expansive stuff, like a car,
furniture, a camera, etc.

------
gweinberg
The "memory of hyperinflation" theory is an obvious crock, because the
prediction is 100% backwards-ass wrong. If you thought hyperinflation in the
near future was at all likely, you'd want to buy everything on credit.

------
PythonicAlpha
I (as others) think, that the stability reason is bogus. The things that where
mentioned, happened 100 years ago. To long for most Germans to remember.

Maybe we are just more traditional thinking, than others.

Some good alternative reasons where given here.

In my experience, the cash workflow is faster in most situations than our CC
workflow (maybe in other countries it is the opposite).

I want to give another reason, that is one of mine:

With money in my pocket, I have my expenses under better control. When the
money is out before the month ends, I immediately see it.

With CC, it is not so.

And as we Germans are so economical, many of us like to have control over our
expenses.

I also think, that there is a good evidence, that it actually works.

------
NamTaf
I see Australia mentioned in second place. That doesn't marry with my
experience, which is seeing card dominate cash due to the early and very
widespread uptake of contactless payment without pin or anything under $100.
This makes it faster than anything else for coffee, taxis, etc.

To see cash sitting at 65% simply doesn't align with my everyday experience.
Maybe it's the legions of baby boomers in the suburbs? I don't know. I
would've suggested Australia would've been 1/3 or 1/4 cash payment.

------
calvinbhai
What if Germany also has a round of Demonetization, similar to what India did
in November 2016? Would the Germans continue to use cash to pay for anything
after that?

I'm a fan of the Indian demonetization experiment, and I believe it has
yielded positive results, at least in terms of being able to use your
credit/debit cards almost anywhere.

If such a drastic measure is taken, then there'll be some aversion to cash,
which will, in turn, move more people to non-cash modes of payment.

------
nickbauman
Born in Germany to a Hessian mother, lived there twice for a total of 11
years. Left just before the wall came down (wish I had stayed at least for
that).

In my experience, Germans have a strong debt aversion. Even the young did. My
mom's friends would buy new cars by reaching into their purses and pulling out
stacks of bills and counting them out in total. It never seemed anything other
than weird to me.

"The slowest things to change are habits of thinking."

------
YSFEJ4SWJUVU6
It might be worth mentioning, but the payment preference goes both ways.
Germans' preference for cash payments sometimes means or meant that payment
options common elsewhere might not be available.

This caught me out at a McDonald's in Berlin that accepted neither Visa nor
MasterCard earlier this decade. Even bigger brands adapt to local culture, it
seems.

~~~
cknight
I've been able to witness the change over the last 5 years in Germany. While
gradual, it has been quite noticeable to see more plastic options become
available, and my ATM visits have become less frequent.

It's still a far cry from home (Australia) where I hadn't needed cash on hand
in quite a long time, but it in terms of convenience it's not a big deal. it
certainly beats France where cheques are still in extremely frequent use vs.
wire transfers.

~~~
lucaspiller
A few years ago I was living in the UAE and I was surprised that cheques were
so common. When you rent an apartment you typically give post-dated cheques
for each quarter at the start of the year.

It sounds a bit crazy, but by law if a cheque bounces it was a criminal
offence (I believe they recently changed it or were thinking about it).

There are a lot of interesting advantages to this, as you can effectively
escrow cash without a third party. If you receive a cheque you know you can
always (or should always) being able to cash it in.

------
tomatsu
Paying with cash is faster.

Inserting your card, entering your pin, waiting a bit, getting some receipt
printed, and finally signing it does take significantly longer than getting
the right amount of change from a cashier who is used to doing this.

Paying with a debit card always makes you look a bit like a twat. It's similar
to paying with a handful of coins.

------
Too
Pretty weak thesis I would say. Visa debit exists and is equally convenient as
credit card without the debt drawback.

You can get one that is indistinguishable from visa cc to the merchant and
hence works everywhere normal Visa does (unlike the one branded "visa debit"
that existed many years ago).

------
tehabe
On the other side, invoices are paid with wire transfers or even direct
deposit entries. I haven't seen many checks since the Eurocheck lost its
guaranteed value of DEM 400.

Personally I think cash is convenient. I also use debit card and credit card
but somehow cash is the most convenient was of payment in a store.

------
deneb84
accordording to this, it seems germans are really near to the europe average.
[http://en.finance.sia-partners.com/cash-here-stay-
question-h...](http://en.finance.sia-partners.com/cash-here-stay-question-how-
you-manage-it)

------
jhoechtl
The why is easily explained and has nothing to do with the 'tumultuous
history': it's all about the privacy. I shudder what data is available in the
US (and other countries) on customers buying habbits.

Sure, with eShoping on an ever rise, this privacy increasingly vanishes.

------
fh973
Not having to routinely verify my credit card or bank account statement with
what would be easily over a hundred transactions per month saves me a lot of
time and energy.

With cash I know when I was robbed.

------
Tharkun
There's a lot of love for contactless payments in this thread. I would have
thought the security-conscious HN audience would dislike them? Has something
improved wrt security?

~~~
akx
FWIW, for my NFC debit card the maximum for a single transaction is 25 EUR,
and the card will require a PIN occasionally anyway (I assume the more often
NFC is used).

------
walterstucco
They don't pay almost everything in cash in Germany.

They pay some more than the half in cash.

It's in Italy where we almost pay everything in cash: in Italy 83% of payments
are still in cash.

The reasons are obvious.

------
barking
On the rare occasions I pay for high cost items in cash, it hurts. I can
definitely see the value in paying with cash if you area trying to stick to a
budget

------
homakov
As a user of N26, sure I always choose cash. They always require typing stupid
6 digit pin (even for paypass). I can't switch it off.

------
overcast
Considering everyone is carrying around wads to pay in cash. Are
thieves/muggings a big problem in Germany?

~~~
simonhfrost
I can't comment about the rate of muggings, but ATMs are everywhere which
would promote holding less cash for shorter periods of time. It's not uncommon
to visit a bank in the centre city where most of the 5-6 ATMs are full of
people withdrawing cash (which is a stark difference between more cash-
digitised nations).

~~~
xioxox
However German banks like to charge you if you use the wrong machine. There
are various different networks and you have to use the right one to make sure
you aren't charged. This is quite different from the UK where most machines
are free.

------
supergirl
how to make a clickbait article. find some random statistic and fill an
article with speculation about it.

------
somecallitblues
You buy less useless crap when using cash and it's just nice to have cash. It
feels real.

------
mgoetzke
and most annoyingly apple recently removed paypal as a payment option here in
germany. which means i cannot buy any apps anymore unless i go and get an
itunes gift card.

------
Samuray
First, while it's true that the German "Schulden" is related to "Schuld", it's
also true that one of the definitions of "debt" is "sin". I don't know if many
anthropologists really have wasted much time thinking about this one, but it
seems pretty irrelevant to me.

Second, the German banking system is actually very modern. While the Americans
and British are still sending cheques through the post, Germans are regularly
paying by direct debit and standing order, as a matter of course.

Third, I think a point that may be missing is that Germans might be suspicious
of credit card payments as they leave records which can be inspected by
government agencies. It's bad enough that they might be able to find out how
much rent you pay and how much electricity you use, but they really don't need
to know exactly which bar you got drunk in last night. I don't know if
anyone's done any serious study into this one, but it is very noticeable that
Germans are particularly concerned about their privacy.

~~~
majewsky
> the Americans and British are still sending cheques through the post

I'm from Germany, and I have to ask this... WHY?

Related anecdote: When I was still living with my parents, I had to cash in
cheques from time to time for them. The cheques came from the lottery which
they were playing, but they had no realistic possiblity at all to cash them in
(the next branch of their bank was over an hour away by car), but I had an
account at the local bank in the small town where I lived.

