
Ask YC: What would the salary range be for programmers? - donna
What would the salary range be for programmers (LAMP platform), to be hired by a S.F. startup?<p>What amount of equity (if any) would be included in the job offer?<p>Other than salary.com, what websites have this sort of information?
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pg
For the very earliest employees in a startup, you should pay little more than
living expenses in salary, because you only want people who want mostly
equity. How much equity to give them is always a negotiation.

The underlying principles are described here:
<http://paulgraham.com/equity.html>

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jemroc
That was an excellent article, I think. I was following along up until the 1.5
multiplier, 50% "profit", 11.1% "retail" price part. I have no idea where
those numbers came from. Will someone please enlighten me?

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ardit33
80,000 to 120,000 depending on experience.

Anything less, and you are getting screwed. Anything more, and you are
actually good either technically. or at negotiation.

Don't sell yourself for little thou. You have all the power of negotiation
BEFORE joining the company. After that, it will be very hard to get any big
raises.

The other thing, is to consider equity. Are you joining as just an employee of
as a early starter employee that will creat their technology backbone.

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jdavid
In the Midwest in dollars per hour, newbs bill for 30-35 per hour. junior
programers 35-55 senior 50-80 niche jr 50-85 niche sr 85-150 enterprise niche
100-250

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donna
thanks!

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wlievens
Wow those numbers are bizarre compared to what I see in Belgium. Programmer
jobs don't make much more than average other jobs here actually.

Junior programmers get paid around 25000 EUR per year (before taxes) - that
equates to 35000 USD.

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DanielBMarkham
Need a little more information. Is this a startup without any programmers who
is looking for an integrated team member? Or is there already a lot of
technical people on staff and you're just looking to offload some of the work?

It makes a big difference.

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palish
1) Whatever you feel you're worth.

2) Whatever you feel you're worth.

The limiting factor in your compensation is usually your own reluctance to ask
for "way too much".

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timr
That's true for consultants; it doesn't hold if you're a full-time employee.
For employee salaries, the limiting factor is still what the boss is willing
to pay.

There's been a lot of noise about consultant hourly rates, lately. But make no
mistake: consultants make more in large part because they have to cover their
own costs (insurance, employment taxes, SSI, etc.) The _true_ cost of a full-
time employee is significantly higher than their salary.

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palish
In my very limited experience, it seems to hold true for full-time employees
as well. You simply have to be willing to leave if they aren't willing to pay
you what you want. You're a lot more valuable to them than they are to you.

All I meant was what the boss is willing to pay you is often higher than you
might think.. And perhaps even higher than he might think :)

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timr
You're begging the original question. Sure, your market value might be higher
than you expect -- but it might be lower, too. Are you willing to walk away
from a good job for a potentially unreasonable expectation of higher salary?

The OP wanted to know the salary range for a programmer in San Francisco. I
guess I don't see relativism ("it's as high as you _want_ it to be") as a
particularly helpful response.

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palish
Hmm... I was feeling pensive today, so I probably got too creative and
derailed the thread. I apologize :)

I'd make it up by giving a helpful response, but I don't live in San Fran. I
hope he finds the answer though!

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timr
payscale.com

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davidw
I always find those sites to be annoying. I bet making a better one would make
for a good startup. How, I don't know, that's up to whoever takes on the
problem to figure out.

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gml
forget it, you'll never be satisfied, just start your own company and set the
price as low as you can for other people.

