
The Verizon iPhone 11 Pro is Locked For 60 days. Buyers are told it is unlocked - downandout
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/warning-iphone-upgrade-program-11-pros-are-not-factory-unlocked-they-are-lying.2200359/
======
tzs
> I got my girlfriend the Verizon version of the iPhone 11 Pro Max. [...] I'm
> with Verizon, she's with T-Mobile. I wanted to get the Verizon version in
> case she ever wanted to be able to switch

Does this actually matter? The tech specs page for the iPhone 11 Pro at Apple
just lists one model of the Max, and says it has both GSM and CDMA.

It used to be that the models sold as AT&T or T-Mobile models only supported
GSM, and the models sold as Verizon or Sprint models supported both CDMA and
GSM, and so if you wanted maximum flexibility you had to get the later.
Judging from current and past spec pages, it appears the iPhone X was the last
iPhone that did that.

~~~
delfinom
That used to be the difference...almost a decade ago. Verizon is killing it's
remaining CDMA infrastructure by next year. The main difference now between
carrier specific phones is their LTE bands as they all use different ones and
for silly reasons phones sometimes will only support ones specific to the
carrier.

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gumby
OP can return it no questions asked and get another unlocked phone.

It's scummy this happened but I suspect in this case it would be Verizon not
telling Apple the truth. Not giving Apple a pass, but if Verizon told the
truth _that_ would be newsworthy

~~~
floatingatoll
The FCC approved Verizon’s request because they were requesting a very limited
lock of 60 days in order to prevent “zero down” device theft and resale by
people who manage to hijack or create a Verizon account using stolen
credentials and identities, order a phone by mail from whomever, and then
never activate it. Verizon provides a statistic of several _thousand_ people
last year having their identity stolen and abused to get iPhones, and they
must continue to unlock phones (without user action required) at 60 days
unless those phones are flagged as acquired through identity fraud (and thus
essentially bricked for all carriers, terminating the get rich quick scheme).

[https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/26/18759602/verizon-60-day-p...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/26/18759602/verizon-60-day-
phone-lock-fcc-approves)

Hopedully the context helps provide some background for why this might not be
as scummy as it seems without that.

~~~
RealStickman
Then the fault lies with Apple for marketing it wrongly. They should
immediately correct it.

~~~
floatingatoll
That assumes OP is being completely truthful rather than misrepresenting a
scenario that does not match the screenshot shown.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21039563](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21039563)

I don’t assume that, since the above comment indicates they may have doing
something fancy with multiple accounts. I would guess that the screenshot is
from the process for _one_ of the accounts - but their complaint is from
something gone wrong with the other account.

------
arcticbull
Definitely an unfortunate regression [on Verizon's part], and quite a screwup
[for Apple] not to document it. I’m sure [the communication and messaging] was
some oversight to be fixed shortly.

[EDIT] Edit for clarity.

~~~
fortran77
What makes you think so?

~~~
arcticbull
Sorry, I was unclear, I'm confident the _messaging_ and incorrect
communication was an oversight on the part of Apple, and I'm sure the 60 day
lock is a result of the recent FCC ruling [1] permitting Verizon to do so.
Which, I imagine, has to do with political connections between Verizon and the
FCC (Ajit Pai and his giant Reese's Pieces mug used to work there).

[1]
[https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/26/18759602/verizon-60-day-p...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/26/18759602/verizon-60-day-
phone-lock-fcc-approves)

------
imgvegas
so the bad part about all this is for the ones that want to use the phone with
multiple carriers for multiple lines. I have my main line as Verizon and my
secondary line as T-Mobile. My Verizon line is tied to my digital sim, and as
soon as you put the T-mobile physical sim into the phone it goes to the
activation screen. Sucks for us that want to use the phone for multiple lines
as they won't let you do so.

------
edwardalbert
Since we are here... are all iPhones financed through Apple come factory
unlocked?

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dwaite
My understanding is that when you buy for a particular carrier/line, it does
still have to be activated on that carrier/line before it will work.

It could very well be that if he set up the phone with a Verizon SIM, it would
immediately be unlocked. But this is a single data point based on what sounds
like someone relaying information from Verizon tech support and a remote
girlfriend having tech troubles.

------
infinitone
Lets not jump to conclusions... lets get more than 1 instance out of 1000s of
sold iPhones.

------
GhettoMaestro
Don't buy it on credit (finance) and you can have it unlocked immediately.

~~~
downandout
The point of the thread is that Apple describes all of the circumstances under
which phones they sell directly are supposed to be unlocked immediately. The
poster’s situation met that criteria, and the phone was still locked.

------
metaphor
I find it humorous that the comments on that post so ardently defend Apple's
disclosure fail by citing disjoint Verizon policy and/or brushing off as
obscure operator switchology.

~~~
mackey
I am an Apple fanboy and a macrumors member since 2002 and that thread is
infuriating. People bend over backwards to defend Apple by any means
necessary. I just read the entire thread and it seems like Apple messed up
here. I would be surprised if it was intentional, but they still clearly
messed up. It's ok to admit that.

~~~
hanklazard
It’s really a bizarre read. It’s clearly an oversight by Apple (which I assume
they will clarify as this type of situation repeats many times). Lots of
people there seem to defend this ridiculous Verizon policy as well.

~~~
gargravarr
Indeed, just the first page was enough for me. The OP made a simple point -
that clearly-stated facts didn't add up, and the entire first page was either
suggested workarounds or unrelated advice. Completely useless and not
addressing the original point in the slightest. I don't blame him for his
final post on the thread before ragequitting.

------
nixgeek
I suspect this person has spent more time at this point raging on the internet
than it would take to exchange the phone, or otherwise solve their issue.

Apple Support will mail you pre-paid packaging to return these if you don’t
want to drive 120 miles (which they cite as a key problem).

They have a great 14 day return policy which I used today for an iPhone 11 Pro
Max. No hassles. Full refund with no questions.

~~~
danShumway
It is usually the case that broad solutions are harder and more time consuming
than individual solutions.

This is somewhat on purpose. Companies rely on the fact that when they mess
up, the easiest solutions for consumers are ones that won't hold the company
accountable or impact their ability to pull the same stunts in the future.

If OP had just exchanged their phone, this thread wouldn't be on HN. But,
assuming their claim is true, maybe the increased attention will force Apple
or Verizon to clarify their advertising.

------
40four
Why is this on the front page? It's not interesting, or even a valid complaint
if you ask me.

The guys screscreen shot clearly says "nearly" all phones will be unlocked.
Well in my world, that doesn't mean 'all', yet he insists on playing the
victim & crying about Apple being liars.

I'm a Verizon customer and the 60 day lock policy is clear on all the new
iPhone marketing material from Verizon. I suspect he saw this and thought he
could work around it by ordering from the Apple website instead.

The excuse of getting the Verizon version "in case' she ever wants to switch
doesn't make sense if he is expecting an unlocked phone.

He was eligible for an upgrade she wasn't. He tried to game the system and
lost. Boo hoo!

Just use the new iPhone on your own verizon account for 60 days & be happy.
His girlfriend's phone can't be THAT old if she not eligible for an upgrade.
Maybe she can use his old one haha.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
> I suspect he saw this and thought he could work around it by ordering from
> the Apple website instead.

That sounds like a completely reasonable expectation.

> He tried to game the system and lost. Boo hoo!

He paid for a phone and had it crippled without being told.

~~~
arcticbull
> He paid for a phone and had it crippled without being told.

I think this is a particularly salient point. Today, all iPhones regardless of
carrier cost exactly the same. However, the Verizon one carries additional
undue burden on it in the form of this 60 day lock. The phone should be
discounted to make up for its lack of functionality.

~~~
spsful
A discount for a 60-day carrier lock? I feel like that could only be worth a
few cents at best.

~~~
londons_explore
If you wanted to use it on another network, it's useless during those days.
Depreciation and cost of capital of the phone for 60 days? Easily $50 or so.

