
Kid Sends Blunt Cover Letter and Now People are Trying to Hire Him - fam
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kid-sends-perfectly-blunt-cover-letter-for-wall-street-internship--and-now-tons-of-people-are-trying-to-hire-him-151518002.html
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aresant
I am not surprised that a cover letter full of humility and honest self-
appraisal has shocked Wall Street HR teams to the point of becoming a featured
article on Yahoo.

~~~
mnicole
Yeah, I'm confused as to why this was so shocking to the point where it was
circulated and warranted a blog post. I've written equally as innocent "just
looking to be around talented folks even if it means.." cover letters to
companies I respected. In fact, that's what a lot of the design agencies I've
worked for got the most of.

~~~
recoiledsnake
I am even more confused why this is on top of HN receiving so many votes in
the past hour.

Is the email really that unique? It seems pretty standard to me and even looks
like boilerplate from one of those "how to write a cover letter for
internships" articles out there.

~~~
JonnieCache
I suspect that a large chunk of HN's lurkers are thwarted engineers, who got
recruited out of college by IBs and are trapped in the world of finance by
their bloated compensation packages, now living the carefree life of the
programmer vicariously by hanging around here.

~~~
antiterra
Not sure which carefree life of the programmer you're talking about -- do you
mean the one where you work at a startup, constantly aware of the risk of
showing up to a locked door from mass layoffs, expected to work crazy hours
out of devotion and loyalty, loaded with stock options that will likely be
worthless, even if the company gets purchased on its way out?

PS Good choice on editing that last line out.

~~~
calinet6
No no, he's talking about the collective fantasy in which we own that startup.

~~~
JonnieCache
Bingo. I think there's a lot of vicariousness going on all round here. It's a
pervasive problem with the internet.

I tried to replace the last line with one about how I am partly hanging around
here vicariously living the life of a cleverer and more highly paid
programmer, but I couldn't make it work so I just got rid of it. Hmmmm.

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peterjmag
After reading the responses, I'm really glad I'm not in finance. "Hilarious
but bold"? "Best cover letter I've ever received"? It's good, but it's not
exactly groundbreaking.

For tech startups, I feel like this kind of thing is almost _required_ if you
want to get anywhere. If I'm reading cover letters, I want to see some
personality, and yes, I want you to be honest. Have some fun with it, even. Is
that really such a novel concept? Or is my perspective just skewed by the
startup world?

~~~
mvkel
Agreed! I've been on the receiving end of cover letters like this and while I
appreciated the honesty, it wasn't exactly intriguing.

~~~
icedchai
Well, to be fair, honesty is probably something pretty unusual on Wall St.

~~~
mvkel
No offense, but I think that's a pretty typical (and boring) statement that is
probably less true than it is on "main street."

Wall Street trading firms have to adhere to some pretty stringent SEC
regulations; regulations no other private company has to deal with. That
inherently means they're required to disclose more than the average "Main St."
company. We all like to cite the bad apples (aka the exceptions), but by in
large financial firms are as "by the book" as you can get.

So no, I wouldn't say it's unusual.

~~~
icedchai
Actually, I'll just broaden it: honesty in business is pretty unusual,
especially big business. Are you happy?

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run4yourlives
Wait a second... this guy sent a letter to a firm looking for employment and
had it along with his personal details paraded around - what looks to be - the
industry?

How is that not a serious violation of privacy? I'm pretty sure this would
violate even the most basic privacy statement. I highly doubt they asked the
submitter if they would enjoy being emailed to the industry. In Canada or the
EU you'd be violating Government legislation too.

Hope it works out for him, but this just goes to show how little Wall Street
thinks of people outside of their own circle. If I were a high up in Morgan
Stanley (it's the only company name not blacked out) I'd be pissed.

~~~
TWAndrews
Yeah, if I were looking for an internship, I'd hate to have my cover letter
and resume circulated on personal emails where it's sure to be read closely.

~~~
cbs
_Yeah, if I were looking for an internship, I'd hate to have my cover letter
and resume circulated on personal emails where it's sure to be read closely._

Exactly, in this specific case it is a net positive! That's plenty of reason
to ignore the implications of the underlying behavior.

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rm999
>I wouldn't be surprised if this guy gets at least a call from every bank out
there

I think that's funny. My brother works in finance, and I work in engineering.
We both interview candidates and we were discussing our approaches recently.
What struck us is how different our approaches are. A few key differences:

* In general, his approach is based more on intuition, whereas mine is very objective. We both spend a lot of effort determining 'fit', but my technical requirements are far more specific.

* Education matters a lot more to my brother. He has HR throw out resumes that aren't from an ivy or aren't from a top 7 business school. I filter far less aggressively, somewhere around the top 50-100 school mark. We both filter on GPA about the same.

* He likes it when people put their extracurricular activities on their resume, for me it can't help you but could be a negative.

Basically, my brother wants smart, hard-working, interesting people. I want
someone who does a high quality job, doesn't need hand-holding to get up to
speed, and is not a jerk to other people in the company. The guy's cover
letter wouldn't impress me much, but my brother would probably love it.

~~~
jiggy2011
I'm interested in what you say about extracurricular activities. I can
certainly agree that in most cases they are a waste of space "I like music,
movies and videogames".

Surely though there would be some extracurriculars that might impress you?
Contributions to a high profile open source projects , doing something that
requires good organisation/people skills or just something that might tell you
a bit about the person's personality?

What sort of extracurriculars would you consider to be negative?

~~~
mindcrime
_I filter far less aggressively, somewhere around the top 50-100 school mark.
We both filter on GPA about the same._

I can't see how either of those things is even slightly relevant, at least in
isolation. The school someone chooses may reflect a great many factors, and
it's entirely possible someone went to Midwest Tennessee State Agricultural
and Technical College instead of Harvard, even if they could have been
accepted by Harvard. Who knows, maybe they didn't bother applying to Harvard
because they thought they couldn't afford it, or the wanted to stay close to
home for family reasons, etc.

GPA? Feh... how do you discriminate between the guy with the 3.8 GPA who took
Underwater Basket Weaving and other throwaway classes for all his non-major
electives, and the guy who took String Theory, Quantum Electrodynamics and
Abstract Algebra as electives?

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BklynJay
One of the comments: "It's funny that all these guys loved the letter, yet
didn't realize it's their fault that the letter even had to be written. If
only they hadn't been falling for trumped up resumes and bogus cover letters
for years."

~~~
creativename
I think in this and many other industries, people that are otherwise talented
and intelligent individuals write these types of "trumped up" resumes only
because they know that everyone else is doing it. If they don't _also_
exaggerate the truth and try to talk up their strengths, then they fear being
overlooked. It's not necessarily that anyone is being "fooled" by the
exaggerated resumes, it just means that everyone sounds the same and it's just
a game that both parties are forced to play. It's hard to distinguish on a
cover letter whether "led a team of..." means one other person or twenty other
people, for instance.

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eli
This isn't a good resume because it's blunt, it's good because he describes
himself as basically exactly what you would want in an intern.

"I'm looking to pad out my resume for a few months until my dad can score me a
cushy job at his firm" is also an honest, blunt thing to say in a cover
letter... but I doubt it works as well.

~~~
notahacker
That's the other thing that's critical: he's being blunt because he knows that
he has _just_ enough to make him actually a fit for the job on paper.

I bet plenty of blunt begging letters from people that don't have an
internship from Merrill Lynch or a "near perfect GPA" get even less
consideration than the majority of candidates that don't realise their
internship and captaincy of the lacrosse team actually doesn't make them stand
out from the other candidates from better schools.

"My grades suck as much as my school's reputation but I don't mind toadying to
be a really well paid barista" would go in the bin too

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beachhouse
It's funny to think that more people don't use this strategy.

He starts with some sort of connection to the email recipient, says how he's
willing to do anything, discredits the peacocking majority (and then peacocks
himself), etc.

This is the same thought process used in sales and marketing and even pickup.

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mindslight
One of the responses, fourth from the bottom:

> _Not sure if either of you guys are still looking for a lackey to build
> models and fetch coffee, but this kid could be worth a conversation_

Does "build models" mean what I think it does - actually coming up with the
mathematical method that projects risk, return, etc ? And if so, is the author
being sarcastic, or do they really consider this to be unimportant work best
passed off to an intern ?

~~~
wting
No, the models are already built. However they need someone to comb through a
company's financial records and plug the appropriate numbers into an Excel
spreadsheet.

It's a glorified data entry position, but interns will gain knowledge and
experience.

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tsmith
"Kid"?

What is it about people that makes them think a person about to complete a
degree and enter a Masters' program, and assumedly old enough to drive, vote,
serve in the military, and reproduce, is a "kid"?

George Washington was a major in the Virginia militia at 21. Nat Palmer was
the first American to discover Antarctica at 21. Bill Gates was 21 when he
founded Micro Soft. Steve Jobs was 21 when he founded Apple.

People who call fully-grown adults "kids" can go stuff themselves.

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betelnut
I wouldn't say it's a great cover letter - it's pretty generic and could
easily be tweaked slightly for any job/industry.

Also it's sort of sad that he has to debase his university and himself for the
lords of finance to consider him.

~~~
codegeek
"could easily be tweaked slightly for any job/industry."

I disagree. This can work well for an intern position because whatever this
guy wrote in the email, is a greaet pitch to be an intern. But if I am looking
for a specialist in a particular niche/industry, at best I would be impressed
by such email but will not hire him just because he talks straight.

~~~
betelnut
You're right, I should be more clear. What I meant by that is that there's no
clear explicit reason why he's interested in investment banking rather than
marketing, consulting, publishing, advertising, whathaveyou.

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justjimmy
This is a gem, considering what's out there atm.

I've heard interns work their way into the big 4 and then squander it - they
expect to be in charge of cases, call the shots, and some even refuse to come
in when called - "I'm watching a movie."

IB isn't like fashion industry where interns are usually delegated mundane
tasks like fetching coffee, but it's good to see this guy willing to doing w/e
it takes.

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djhworld
This is cute, but in reality it highlights everything that is wrong with the
system and the financial sector.

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lefstathiou
He wants to work for a summer in finance (sounds like a trading floor rather
than the investment bank), is mastering in accounting and taking the LSAT to
go to law school... Sounds focused. I can think of more direct paths into
corporate law...

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austenallred
"People are trying to hire him" seems like a bit of a stretch based on the
article. I see a lot of "Haha, I might even give him a call," but no, "I want
to hire this kid!"

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vsbuffalo
Brace yourselves for copycats.

~~~
codegeek
except the copycats should ensure they have something substantial to show. In
this casem, the guy had a near perfect GPA (whatever that number is)

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sonabinu
No everyone agrees to this approach ...
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/crossingborders/2013/01/16/wall-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/crossingborders/2013/01/16/wall-
street-bosses-are-calling-this-the-best-cover-letter-ever-but-not-everyone-
agrees/#)

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nathell
I'm wondering if it's possible to determine the authorship of the letter as
well as the identity of several people mentioned, based on the pixel widths of
characters in the font used.

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ryguytilidie
Recruiter here. If I knew we got upvotes for posting semi-interesting cover
letters I would have a lot more karma :( Read probably 100 better than this in
the last year alone.

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n3rdy
Well I certainly misjudged the articles title, this makes a lot more sense
now. I guess the Phish crowd hasn't gone all business savvy after-all.

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suyash
To Future CopyCats: Please don't use the same cover letter for your internship
job application. This guy kept it real, you do the same!

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jiggy2011
Well, he has demonstrated: Integrity , reasonably strong written skills , some
balls and of course "thinking outside the box".

~~~
vignesh_vs_in
Odd ones always get the attention of onlookers. The letter is honest and
straight forward, which itself is enough to get the attention of the readers.

Just today i read one of my colleague's recommendation letter for Masters
graduate Program. The letter was full of team player, hard worker bullshit :).
(I later suggested her to add in some actual evidence to support her claims)

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guylhem
Honnesty pays. What else to say - this kids has more than most people.

~~~
Ecio78
i'll play the devil's advocate role, not that I really believe what i'll
write: unfortunately we don't rellay know if he's really honest, or just
playing a role..

* what if he hasn't really met the recipient of the mail? (it could be just a way to connect with him, maybe he meets so many kids, he wont remember me)

* what if he hasnt really interned for ML? (will somebody check?)

* are we sure he's really waiting for admission to MSc in Accountancy?

etc..

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quomopete
who's this kids uncle?

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OGinparadise
His odds were close to zero with a "me too" resume, so he risked it all. A lot
of Wall Street companies want Ivy League caliber and a GPA of 3.5+ as a
starting point--or to have your case considered.

Now I'd say, his resume will be read and he will be judged on his merits.

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thoughtcriminal
A frank, honest letter shocks the financial world.

No. doubt.

