
Why schools are failing our boys - mycroft-holmes
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/02/19/why-schools-are-failing-our-boys/
======
PaulHoule
There are lots of reasons.

First of all, any organization that has men working with young children will
eventually face accusations of pedophilia regardless of the reality. Also men
seem less interested in day care and early childhood education so children see
nothing but women teachers until high school.

Just like blacks who have nothing but white teachers conclude that education
is a "white thing", boys will conclude it is a girl thing.

When I coached Kindergarten soccer (which is a lot of fun; I'll leave large-
field soccer to the Europeans, but the game on a small field is exciting) I
shaved my beard because I learned that it would scare some kids because they'd
never seen anybody with a beard.

There's also the problem that people mistake an obedient child for a "good
child". There was this book

[http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-
Personality...](http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Personality-
Edition/dp/0964765004)

which seemed so puzzled that people would "change" quickly when they fall into
cults but the real thing is parents thought these kids had it together because
they would do what they are told and when you put them in a new environment
they do what L. Ron Hubbard tells them to do (i.e. no "change" at all)

My son isn't in the habit of obedient and if somebody isn't pushing on him
somewhat he will do nothing at all in a classroom with 20 kids. I talked with
my superintendent about this at a PTA meeting and he told me I should sit back
and let the experts deal with this. (Just before this he told the mother of a
"special" child that he welcomes her as a partner in his education; that's
because the state can set a fire under his ass)

That's why my son is homeschooled.

~~~
magic_beans
Uh oh.

Your post sounds a little...extreme. Schools aren't evil. Bear in mind the
effect your values are really having on your son. Keep in mind, too, the great
social development he's missing out on.

~~~
guard-of-terra
"Schools aren't evil"

They often are. For a great deal of students, it's a place of unhappiness. I'm
on the geeky side, and when I ask my friends (girls more often than not)
whether they liked school, they universally tell me it wasn't good for them.

So you can't say that. You want that to be true; that is supposed to be true;
but it is not.

~~~
goatforce5
Going to the dentist isn't fun, but it's necessary.

If you visit often enough and listen to what they say, it should become a
little easier as you go along.

~~~
facepalm
Try going to the dentist every day, for 6 hours per day, for twelve years
straight.

------
MarcScott
Articles titled 'Why schools are failing ...' annoy me intensely. They're
almost always written by a parent with a struggling or gifted child who has
almost no actual experience of the education system, other than that they
attended a school twenty years ago.

Modern education is run with a 'one shoe fits all' approach. We try to cater
for boys, girls, those with learning difficulties, those that are gifted,
those from impoverished households, those that are affluent, and in general
every sector of society that are dumped in our classrooms.

I stand in front of 30 different students, 5 times a day and try my best to
educate them all to the best of my ability, and do you know what? Sometimes I
don't succeed. It pains me, but some kids slip through the cracks and don't
get the education they deserve. I try my best, but there are practicalities
that need to be considered.

If you want an education system that caters for all students, regardless of
academic ability and socio-economic background then you need to realise that
this does not come cheaply. Stick me in a classroom with 10 students instead
of 30 and I'll have more time to spend with each one, be better able to take
into account their personal education needs, be able to tailor my lessons to
individuals rather than focusing on what will suit the majority. Also realise
that you'll need to employ three times as many teachers and that the your
taxes will need to be substantially increased.

On some level, our modern education system (and previous education systems)
fails everyone, to a lesser or greater degree, and few students leave school
having reached their full potential. If society wants this to change then the
answer is to stop treating schools as a free baby-sitting service, allowing
both parents to go out to work and contribute to a nation's GDP, and start
treating schools as an investment in a nation's future.

~~~
MetaCosm
What annoys me is when it is treated as a money issue. The US spends more per
student than any other country, and among the most as a % of GDP (7.3%) well
above the average of industrialized countries of 6.3% -- there are countries
that spend more (Denmark, 8%) but not in absolute terms, only as a % of GDP.
We spend upwards of $15,000+ per student per year and still can't get the job
done.

This pervasive myth that it is a "not enough money in the system" does a great
disservice to everyone involved and means we never discuss the REAL issue.
There is tons of money, but the systematic problems are immune to money -- we
could double spending and it wouldn't fix the issues. Parents don't care,
teachers are protected by a powerful union so they don't care... student are
treated as "must move" assets, standardized testing is held up as the be all,
end all of measuring progress.

Instead of continuing to throw money down a blackhole that seems to not
generate better outcomes, maybe it is time to rethink our approach... or admit
that schools are tiny people prisons and useful filters and have very little
to do with educating children, and more to do with segmenting and ranking them
(which is useful, but can be done far more cheaply).

------
blkhp19
There are also plenty of boys and girls who don't have this problem. I was a
bit of a trouble maker in elementary and middle school - enough to get a call
home from the teacher once or twice a year - but I always did my work and gave
a damn about my performance.

I don't understand this parent. "I let my son play minecraft in the morning
before school" \- so your son is slacking off in school, but you're still
giving him everything he wants? He's your son. He needs to be shown that
sometimes, you have to suck it up and work, even when you don't want to.
That's a tough lesson to teach an 8 year old, but it's something that parents
should enforce early. Eventually, their kid will see that hard work and self
control will pay off. Here's a novel idea - don't let your kid play minecraft
until he starts doing better in school.

That being said, I do think physical activity should be more common. If it's
rainy or cold out, kids should be able to go to their school's gym for an
extra PE class - or maybe be able to play minecraft on the school computers.
Boys and girls needs to be able to do something like this throughout the day.
Article like this will hopefully make schools rethink some things - but until
change actually happens, this mom needs to take control instead of just
throwing her hands up and telling her son "it's not your fault. now go play
minecraft."

~~~
vaishaksuresh
I agree with what you say. Kids should learn to follow rules even when they
don't like them. Society cannot function if everybody does only the things
they like. Schools should focus on building solid character in kids and
teaching them responsibility and hard-work not coddle them and let them play
all the time. Personally, I think asian kids achieve more things because their
culture enforces discipline, hard-work and obedience from a young age.

~~~
phkahler
>> I think asian kids achieve more things because their culture enforces
discipline, hard-work and obedience from a young age.

What do they achieve more of? I keep hearing how the US needs to change
education to be more like other countries so they can compete on tests, but
why change when you're winning on innovation? Or do we attribute that to
something else?

~~~
vaishaksuresh
I am just going to give you one example. At least 11 out of the last 15
spelling bee champions are of asian descent[1]. I don't know about changing
the education system. I actually don't agree with the author of the original
article but to answer your question, the innovation that US is so proud of has
major contribution from Aisans also and is not something you can attribute
entirely to Americans. The reason there is so much innovation could also be
due to the fact that US is a developed county with abundant resources and most
asian countries are not. When you don't have to worry about pollution,
population, food etc, the mind gets freed up to think about innovation and
creativity.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scripps_National_Spelli...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scripps_National_Spelling_Bee_champions)

~~~
jff
I used to do the spelling bee thing. I did ok, would generally make it from my
school -> local -> regional, but not beyond that. That's because I was good at
spelling from all my reading, but I didn't study for the bee at all.

Now, the kids who did really well at the spelling bee, they didn't have time
to read. Their moms were making them spend 3 hours a night with the little
spelling bee booklet, learning how to spell every possible word that could be
asked, and forcing themselves into the rhythm: "'Rote'. May I have the
language of origin? 'Rote'. Can you use the word in a sentence? 'Rote'. May I
have the definition? 'Rote'. R-O-T-E". (Hilariously, I once watched a girl do
the whole routine over the word "talons", even getting "the eagle had sharp
talons" as the sentence, then spelling T-A-L-E-N-T-S. Her mom made a fuss over
microphone placement and got her back into the round)

Is this a worthwhile thing to do? What useful things does this method teach?
Spelling is extremely good, but like I said I'm pretty good at spelling
because I read a lot. Maybe I could have been the Spelling Bee Champion if
instead of reading, I'd memorized the entire word list. Then I would be
extremely good at spelling "prestidigitation", that's for sure.

~~~
vaishaksuresh
Spelling bee was just an example of what people achieve with persistent
effort. I understand the use of the said skill is debatable. The key is that
most asian families enforce rules on kids and the kids do well in their life.
Asian families set higher expectations and do not pander to their kid's
childish desire to play minecraft or chop wood.

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/04/08...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-
its-expected-say-scholars/)

------
elchief
"Simply put, girls have better educational outcomes when taught by women, and
boys are better off when taught by men"

[http://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ednext20064_68....](http://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ednext20064_68.pdf)

Pay teachers better and aim for 50% male teachers and consider going back to
all boys schools and all girls schools with plenty of rules to ensure that
both are treated fairly.

~~~
Niten
I used to work for a school system that experimented with gendered classrooms.
While it would be a mistake to extrapolate too much from our experience, those
became the most successful classrooms at the elementary school in question.
The boys did particularly well.

Naturally the ACLU would rather fight to ban the practice outright than risk
additional research _possibly_ showing that this is a productive approach, at
the expense of the preferred gender politics narrative.

~~~
Someone1234
I thought you were being melodramatic about the ACLU, but nope, not at all:

[https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/sometimes-it-only-
ta...](https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/sometimes-it-only-takes-hour-
get-picture-single-sex-program-wont-fly)

I am all about gender equally but that seems crazy to me. As long as girls and
boys receive the same standard of education then why should it matter? Seems
like PC taken too far.

~~~
Niten
Same here, and sorry if that seemed hyperbolic. It's just extremely
frustrating to me as someone who sees (most of) the ACLU's work as extremely
important, and who has donated to them in the past.

------
mhurron
It's not failing boys, it's failing every child. I never had an issue with
this, quite frankly classroom clowns were kind of rare at least when it came
to actually disrupting the whole class. However

> He hasn’t been allowed outside at school all week

That never happened. We went outside, we played, we were able to expend our
childhood energy. They are children, they do need somewhere and somehow to
expend their energy.

~~~
alistairSH
I'm sure there were weeks where I didn't get outside during school hours, but
between PE in the gym (when cold/wet/whatever), music lessons, chorus, GT
programs, and other enrichment, I was rarely stuck in the same room and same
seat for more than a few hours at a time.

If schools have changed in the last 25 years such that none of that out-of-
classroom enrichment occurs, then yeah, we're failing out kids.

~~~
dhagz
There's still a good amount of out-of-classroom enrichment, however here in
Georgia we've had a rather nasty cold snap that has prevented kids from going
outside (county-wide requirement). How teachers respond to this extra time in
the classroom is obviously up to them, but I know of one who had her kids do
Zumba for the duration of recess instead of just using it for more
instruction.

------
UnGravitas
Replace "boy" or "son" with child and the only paragraph in the article which
reads differently is this

>Statistically speaking, boys now lag behind girls on every single academic
measure; they also get in trouble and drop out of school much more frequently
than girls. There are fewer boys in college than girls, and far more lost
20-something boys than 20-something girls.

It certainly seems like schools are failing boys but I'm not sure that this
particular failure has anything to do with it.

------
rayiner
> Re-entry after winter break has not been easy for him. The rules and
> restrictions of school – Sit Still. Be Quiet. Do What You Are Told, Nothing
> More, Nothing Less. – have been grating on him, and it shows.

> The lack of movement and rigid restrictions associated with modern schooling
> are killing my son’s soul.

As an asian, I can't muster a lot of sympathy for this line of reasoning.
Nobody would accuse asian countries of catering to girls rather than boys, but
the schooling over there is even more "sit down, shut up, and do your work"
than it is here in the U.S.

~~~
maratd
Regardless, I don't see how that conflicts with what the author wrote.

> The lack of movement and rigid restrictions associated with modern schooling
> are killing my son’s soul.

I think you can say that regardless of where the same style of schooling is
practiced and regardless of the gender.

Rules are fine. They teach discipline. Rules that are created to make large
groups of children manageable are not fine. Children aren't cattle and require
personal attention and a rule set that matches their character.

~~~
vaishaksuresh
>Rules that are created to make large groups of children manageable are not
fine. Children aren't cattle and require personal attention and a rule set
that matches their character.

That can only happen at home. Catering to needs of every child individually at
school is not easily doable. One child's need may be disruptive to another or
the entire class. Expecting teachers to pander to such needs is plain wrong.
In a class, the teacher should focus on teaching basic skills. enforcing some
rules that makes this easier is fine in my books. If your child needs special
attention, hire a private tutor, home school or send them to piano/fencing
class or whatever it is that interests him/her.

------
beachstartup
yeah, what could possibly go wrong with locking a bunch of 8 year old boys in
a room, telling them they can't talk to each other, forcing them to do mind-
numbing things they don't want to do, and depriving them of nearly all adult
male contact?

it's a system that's been hijacked by do-gooders doing anything but good.

------
kordless
Schools are failing our daughters as well.

My daughter complains that the 'boys are stinky and loud' and that's why she
doesn't go into computer lab more often. She says that the majority of the
boys in the lab are 'playing games' and are 'obnoxious'. If you've ever been
in a computer lab with a bunch of middle schoolers, you will undoubtedly agree
with her statements.

Simple solution? Build a partition down the middle of the computer lab and
make one side for the girls and one for the boys.

~~~
yaddayadda
Why separate by gender instead of environment. For example, have a subdued
side and an energetic side? While there may be more girls on the subdued side
(like a classic library environment) and more boys on the energetic side (like
a busy internet cafe environment), it wouldn't enforce gender stereotypes but
would provide all students both options.

~~~
kordless
I like the idea of setting the mood in the space to attract different types of
users. Good suggestion!

------
sandworm
Anyone else spot that the kid likes fire?

Every male I know went through a 'firebug' phase as a kid. A young boy playing
with fire is imho as natural as a dog wanting to chase squirrels. There was a
time when those of us who understood fire survived while other froze. Those
who could start and maintain a fire in adverse conditions were once respected
individuals, even professionals. Today they are misbehaving young boys, a
small percentage of which are even declared dangerous.

Not allowing young boys to play with fire is akin to not allowing them to
exercise. A boy waking up early to tend the communal fire is expressing an
evolved behaviour that probably predates language itself.

------
cyphunk
Woe woe. How is this a "boys" thing? The author has some valuable opinions
worth considering but the positing of them is absurd. Re-read that article
with this question in mind ("wait, this is a boy issue?") and I think you
might also find the authors oblivion equally disturbing.

There is reason to consider the gender gap in education but this article, with
"Little House on the Prairie" as its sole reference, fails to bring anything
of value for that argument. There is also reason to question why some
education systems devalue labor... but attaching this to a "boys" thing?
<face_palm>

------
smegel
Because they are, very deliberately, not tailoring education to meet their
needs.

------
skylan_q
The resources that are available geared specifically toward the improvement of
education have been allocated more towards girls and less towards boys than
they were in the past. As a result, the academic performce of girls has
improved relative to boys.

------
bambax
> _He hasn’t been allowed outside at school all week; it’s too cold_

This is not the first time I read this, so it must be true, but it's the
craziest idea ever. Not allowing kids to play outside (not _making them_ go
outside, regardless of the weather) is criminal.

I'm not sure this has anything to do with boys vs. girls though; I have 3
kids, two boys and a girl, and while the three of them love to play outside
the one who likes it the most is the girl.

She's 6 and will very happily spend a whole afternoon jumping on a trampoline
under light rain, as she did yesterday with no harm to herself or her health.

~~~
adamgray
In some places in the world, including where the author is from, it was
dangerously cold this week. Here in Chicago the temperature was around -5F
(-20C) all week, which is dangerously cold for anyone outside in prolonged
periods without proper attire.

~~~
ptaipale
But not _allowing_ someone to go out, with proper attire, is still weird.

(Over here, the rule's that it's mandatory to go out for breaks, except if
temperature is below -15C (+5F). Everyone has proper attire.)

~~~
adamgray
> Everyone has proper attire.

I think that's probably a big component of the policy, I regularly see kids on
the train or out walking to school without proper attire to be outside in the
bitter cold.

------
Havoc
Had a (rebel) teacher that used to claim putting 16 year old boys in a class
room is a waste of time. Given the amount of paper planes I constructed in
class at that age I'm inclined to agree. Still turned into a successfull
professional though so I guess something went right.

------
xacaxulu
I was lucky enough to be sent to a male boarding school. Seeing the state of
public and most private school systems in my region, and the lack of male
representation among teachers, I will most definitely be sending my sons to
similar all male or military boarding schools.

~~~
griffinmahon
Please do not just "send" your sons to military boarding schools. I currently
go to an academy and a part of the life here really puts me in a slump.

~~~
xacaxulu
My experiences in military boarding school were positive. Difficult and
character-building, but positive. I doubt any school experience could be
'slump free' all the time. In any case I hope you can find the good in the
experience.

------
ianbicking
A friend of mine posted her daughter's homework, which had a math problem like
"What is 17 - 9?" then "Explain." Her daughter wrote something like "because
it is". Which is all the damn explanation that should require. The friend did
admit that her daughter later added an explanation. (To be fair, I think they
were looking for something like "because 9 + 8 = 17" which isn't entirely
unreasonable.)

This is a pattern I have seen more, and I think is part of Common Core more
generally. It makes some sense, but it also feels like they are aping good
education. Yes, it is important that students have more than one way to
approach a problem, that they understand the truth of the answer and not just
the mechanism to produce it, and it is good if a child can work at
articulating their thought processes. But, acknowledging that, the Common Core
response is: add some more questions requiring the student to do those things.
It's not supportive.

Now, back to boys and girls. These vague requirements, these attempts to
induce "critical thinking", are not well defined, and the only demonstrable
result is whether you can please the teacher. (IMHO in a better approach a
student would use multi-step thinking, construct and answer their own
problems, and ultimately produce a result that could be externally and
objectively validated, ideally supporting iterative development and adding
complexity.) Boys are not very good at pleasing teachers, certainly not nearly
as good as girls are. A boy would be less likely to amend his answer to
satisfy the absurd question, less likely to try to read the teacher's mind to
figure out what output the teacher was trying to get. A boy is less likely to
match the girl on language skills at some of those ages, and then can't even
excel at something that isn't language based, like math. Everything becomes an
essay question, and if you aren't good at essays not only won't you be graded
well, you may not enjoy the work itself. And the harder you are pushed towards
performing the more you will be pushed towards your weakness (the flaw that is
keeping you from being graded well); this may improve your grades at that
moment, but at the cost of long term learning.

Kids have a lot of time to learn what they need to know. So much time... when
people talk about lengthening school days and years, it makes me think about
expecting people to work late to increase output. It's not smart. But worse it
reveals a lack of value being placed on the time already spent. But if you let
a child learn what is right for them to learn, when it is right to learn it,
there's so much time for them to become eventually well rounded.

It sucks for girls too. They cope better, they are better equipped to conform.
They are also cursed with that ability to conform. The bad results for boys
often involve obvious external measures, like failing, disciplinary measures,
testing poorly, struggling after school. The bad results for girls are often
more internal, a fragile identity, not nurturing their own autonomy, feeding
on external rather than internal validation.

This is why as a parent I opt out of public education.

------
mschuster91
_sarcasm on_ Are you serious that kids are supposed to play outside in school?
After all, they could injure themselves. And then the parents (or their
medical insurance, who wants another insurance to pay, if possible) sue the
school and the teacher for six-figures. And the parents of the kid too, if
possible! Oh, and the kid too, 8 years old and $100k in debt already! _sarcasm
off_

And I'm not sure if that what I just said is fiction or has happened often
enough. If I were a teacher, I'd just stick the kids in a classroom to limit
my liability.

I was happy to have enjoyed a childhood in which playing outside was normal.
I'm not sure if I'd let my kid outside if I had one. Not in a climate where my
8-year-or-whatever-young old son might get a sex offender entry for the rest
of his life because he played doctor games with a little girl in kindergarten
or whatever. Too many incidents of this sort happened, and I don't want to
have a kid in this legal climate.

------
vfclists
Not enough male teachers at the primary level?

