
Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students' - metaphysics
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-49159820
======
guardiangod
On the other side of the pond, in Canada-

[https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/hong-kong-
protests-...](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/hong-kong-protests-
tension-spills-over-onto-simon-fraser-university-campus)

>At Simon Fraser University, a controversy over three “Lennon Walls” —
fixtures where people can post notes of support or inspirational wishes —
shows how tensions related to increasingly violent protests in Hong Kong may
get harder to manage on Canadian campuses. At least one academic is calling on
all involved — both students and universities — to take a more formal,
respectful approach.

>The original Lennon Wall, located outside the main Bennett Library, was
“repeatedly destroyed and rebuilt, with post-it notes taken down. It’s gone
for now,” said Wan.

Here's a personal account-

[https://www.reddit.com/r/simonfraser/comments/ciymgc/id_like...](https://www.reddit.com/r/simonfraser/comments/ciymgc/id_like_to_share_my_own_experience_at_the_lennon/)

>I visited the Lennon Wall on campus on Friday (on the left side of the
library) at 15:30. There were a handful of students speaking in Mandarin, one
of them speaking very loudly (we’ll call him A). I started walking up to the
wall and examining the notes closely, one other (I assume local) SFU student
was doing the same as well. This student started asking if I know anything
about what’s going on, so I started having a conversation with her. However,
within seconds, A and his friends started walking up close to us and he
started loudly interjecting his own opinion on us. It was not until the
student that I was having a convo with indicated that she was having a private
conversation with me that A had finally stopped. Later on, while I was still
on scene, I heard A loudly say (in Mandarin) that, “if protests in Hong Kong
had happened here in Vancouver, the RCMP would’ve shot all of them dead”. I
found it extremely distasteful that A had said that.

~~~
andy_bandy
It goes beyond problems in HK. It also happened when the University of Toronto
elected a Canadian citizen of Tibetan origin student body president.

'China is your daddy': Backlash against Tibetan student's election prompts
questions about foreign influence

Chemi Lhamo, 22, got thousands of hateful comments after becoming U of T
Scarborough student president

[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/china-tibet-
student-e...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/china-tibet-student-
election-1.5019648)

------
ekc
> Ms Fan and Ms Leung say such harassment has also continued off campus. They
> have found pictures of themselves being shared on Chinese social media sites
> next to threatening messages. Ms Fan said one comment warned she would "face
> consequences".

If anyone's there, or knows someone who's there who happens to be protesting
this, you should probably recommend they wear Winnie the Pooh merchandise, or
wear t-shirts mentioning the Tiananmen Square protests, for their own personal
safety. This has already gone too far, fighting fire by taking advantage of
censorship your opponents are defending with violence is the most rational
thing to do.

~~~
CapacitorSet
I fail to see how this would be of any help, especially the former. To me it
looks like a feel-good action with virtually no political impact.

~~~
abugheratwork
I believe the intended impact is to prevent pictures of oneself from becoming
famous, by making sure that they are censored.

The censorship trick won't work globally, and won't block authorities from
seeing the picture, but I think the real goal is to avoid becoming
individually well known within China as a dissident.

~~~
verroq
I think covering themselves with posters of the Tank man will work as well.

------
cabaalis
Swinging a fist at someone isn't free speech. Taking and destroying someone
else's property (even a $0.05 posterboard) isn't free speech.

> Security officials quickly arrived to separate the groups

Separation calms the issue but does not punish those who harm others.

------
psychometry
Haven't these pro-Beijing students ever tried to access uncensored information
online that was denied to them until they arrived in their host countries? Why
are they content to continue believe in the propaganda? You'd think that even
a casual search for a subject like Tiananmen Square would be a wake-up call.

~~~
SamReidHughes
Do you think Americans are going to hate their country after reading about
MKUltra? How about solitary confinement? WMDs in Iraq?

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _Do you think Americans are going to hate their country after reading about
> MKUltra?_

One, we don’t censor that information.

Two, I’d expect most Americans to freely criticise those government actions,
as well as the people and agencies responsible. The latter is prohibited in
China.

~~~
coldtea
> _One, we don’t censor that information_

You don't have to, when nobody really cares for it, and the system is such
that nobody is gonna do anything about it (and the people who did those things
get a slap on the wrist, if not a pat on the back).

It's regimes that lack this that censor information -- regimes that are
worried that e.g. protests could result in bringing them down.

If you don't worry about that, you can let almost anything be said. Especially
if you just let it be declassified/acknowledged decades after the fact, when
even fewer will care.

~~~
jhanschoo
The comment you are replying to is not making any judgment on the morality of
the state, and is likely in agreement with you. It's just pointing out that
the grandparent's rhetorical suggestion is undermined by an incorrect premise
(that people don't know about US atrocities and their criticism and would be
appalled to know them, where actually such information is easily available)

------
Wowfunhappy
I spend vacation time working at an academic summer camp for 11–year-olds. My
hall typically includes some students from China.

This year, one of my Chinese kids mentioned that he frequently used a VPN to
get around China's firewall. This made another one of my Chinese kids quite
upset: "You broke the law? How could you?"

The argument got somewhat heated, but I didn't intervene because I
legitimately wasn't sure what to say. On one hand, yes, within the context of
an 11-year-old's worldview, breaking the law is bad and should be avoided. On
the other hand, China is an authoritarian regime attempting to suppress free
access to information, and everyone should work around that however they can.

I've been replaying this in my head quite a bit, and I'm still not sure what I
should have done.

~~~
bluGill
I think the best thing is directly do what you did. Then in a completely
unrelated context work in the idea "it is your duty to break an unjust law".
There are lots of ways to do that, but hard to pull off in context of a summer
camp.

------
codesushi42
The violent pro China protestors should be kicked out of Australia.

If you violently push your pro authoritarian views in your democratic host
country, they have every right to kick you out.

~~~
lxe
Hot take: or maybe they should be charged with some kind of assault and tried
according to the Australian laws?

But no, you're right, let's get the pitchforks and torches and have them all
'git out of our 'country!

~~~
monksy
They should be caught, tried and charged under Australian laws. Most countries
have in their laws that people will be removed for the major crimes (violence
etc).

If you're in a country where you are not a citizen you are a guest. You
wouldn't go to someone's house, create a lot of trouble, and then expect to be
able to stay do you?

~~~
addicted
The guest framing applies equally to the people supporting the Hong Kong
protests.

Students shouldn't behave like guests in countries which value freedom of
speech. However, students who engage in violence and intimidation should
certainly be removed from the University based on the rules almost every
University has regarding what constitutes acceptable behavior, and in this
case it seems they would also have broken laws by attacking the original
protestors.

~~~
monksy
I got the impression he was referring to the counter "protestors", (if you're
"protesting" in a violent way.. that's a riot, not a protest).

My understanding of the counter-protesters were not citizens of Australia.
Despite being a student, it doesn't change that they're guests. This is
frequently warned on the State department's travel guides. NEVER join in on
foreign protests, not all countries have the same rights in those reguards.

------
skdkdk
Kids will be kids, but the consul generals words do frighten me. It’s whistle
blowing to Chinese kids that it’s okay to incite violence. Patriotism is never
an excuse for harming others.

~~~
ginko
Sorry, but in what way, other than the most colloquial, are university
students kids?

~~~
SamReidHughes
Maturity?

------
shmerl
_> They held the event, they caused everything... they tried to make us
angry._

Brainwashed dictatorship proponents are blaming those who oppose dictatorship
for their own aggression. How classy.

------
xmly
A 'peaceful' protest is allowed then a 'peaceful' protest to your protest
should also be allowed. If anyone broke the law, there are polices. Do you
guys not believe in Australia polices and judicial system? Then protest
against them. I believe in australia you have this freedom, right? Speaking
louder in public place is not breaking any LAW.

~~~
seemack
Can you show me where someone said that the counter-protesters broke the law
by "speaking louder in public places"?

This is entirely about the counter-protestors violently attacking the
protestors.

~~~
xmly
If you have evidence, call Australia polices. I believe in Australia polices
and the judicial system. If you do not have evidence, it is just your
speculation. If you do not believe the fairness of Australia polices, protest
against them.

~~~
seemack
I'm afraid I don't understand your response.

Your initial message ended with "Speaking louder in public place is not
breaking any LAW." This indicates that you were responding to some claim that
the counter-protesters had broken a law by being louder in public. I haven't
seen any claims resembling that so I'm curious to see where you did.

------
lxe
Is HN exactly like Boomer Facebook now? What's with this "kick them out of the
country" rhetoric?

If people are assaulting peaceful protesters, arrest them, charge them, try
them, and punish them according to the law. It's literally right there on
camera.

But no, please continue inciting outrage and controversy. China bad. Hong Kong
good.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _punish them according to the law_

It’s lawful and valid to revoke visas of those convicted of violent crimes.
Assaulting protesters is a violent crime.

Nobody reasonable is advocating for deporting all Chinese students. Just those
who assault protesters.

~~~
lxe
Well, if an internet commenter says so, I guess we can skip the whole due
process thing.

~~~
JaimeThompson
One can assume that in Australia that if one has been convicted that due
process has happened can't you?

------
neilk
How do a spontaneously organized group of pro-PRC students get someone’s
passport information and marriage license?

------
spectramax
This infuriates me. Intimidation and hostile attitude towards people
protesting in a different country is an act of barbarianism and should be
condemned internationally. In fact, the way to combat this is to further
enrage, fearlessly protest the PRC patriotic machine and "poke" the hornet's
nest so to speak. I've taken the pledge to never visit China and avoid Chinese
goods because of shit like this. The PRC has a stronghold locally in China but
their PR strategy is deeply flawed to get international cooperation, respect
and dignity. The west has ideals that allow protesting of ridiculous ideas
such as the KKK, sometimes with protection from the police, whilst try doing
the same thing in China - last time they did that was in 1989 Tiananmen square
which resulted in a massacre.

~~~
shrimp_emoji
>avoid Chinese goods because of shit like this.

Wie bitte???

This hurts you far more than it does China. Use systemic, not individual,
actions instead (insofar as you can). Vote for political admins likely to
respond to Chinese human rights violations, support protest movements, etc.

~~~
spectramax
It is an irrational emotion driven thing for me. It is sort of like not going
to a particular amazing popular restaurant just because the service isn't good
- it hurts me by not going to the restaurant and enjoying their incredible
food but it becomes a matter of principle.

Gandhi protested the British by spinning up his own yarn and making his own
clothes, it is the concept not the objective ROI of his decision to not buy
British-made goods.

------
ceejayoz
They'll be well primed to consider the Tienanmen Square information available
to be anti-China propaganda, won't they?

This is hardly unique to China. Go to a Trump rally and see how many people
respond positively to an AP fact check of one of his claims.

~~~
monksy
Personal opinions (trump rallies) are a far cry from what's going on with the
propaganda campaigns.

~~~
ceejayoz
If you don't consider a Trump rally and calls of "fake news" to be part of a
propaganda campaign intended to _generate_ these sorts of opinions, I don't
know what to tell you.

(To be clear, the same is true for Democratic rallies, too - they're
propaganda.)

~~~
monksy
> Democratic rallies, too - they're propaganda.)

We're in agreement here. The political pop culture is weird and celeb
worshiping in the US.

Compared to the propaganda coming out of China and is being pushed in other
nations, it's like comparing a mountain to a molehill.

Yes there is a sub-group that believes and endorses in the pro-trump beliefs.
Are they valid/good/true? Who cares. Part of our basic rights means that we
can hold these beliefs and opinions and express them. If you are to believe in
the basic right you have to be willing to accept that people will hold beliefs
and will speak on things you don't like.

We have universal laws in the US, if they cross them, enforce the law. (I.e.
trying to hit other people with a car at a protest etc)

~~~
ceejayoz
My point is that China's done with Tienanmen Square what Trump's trying
(fairly successfully) to do with "fake news" claims - discredit factual stuff
he doesn't like his supporters believing in.

~~~
o_p
No, thats a huge exaggeration, Trump is not sending to kill or throwing to
jail anyone who disagrees with him, forcing schools to brainwash its students,
etc etc, America may have many problems but its not China.

~~~
ceejayoz
Nor is China doing that in Australia. As described in the article, they've
outsourced the harassment to patriotic, nationalist civilians.

A Trump supporter was at the Cincinnati rally the other day making slit-throat
gestures at the press pen. Same sort of crowdsourced intimidation tactics.

~~~
drak0n1c
What qualifies as "same sort of crowdsourced intimidation tactics"? Yesterday,
a Trump supporter was actually beaten bloody by a crowd in NYC based on the
hat he wore. Are media and political figures who demonize Trump and his voters
also responsible for that "crowdsourced intimidation"?

[http://www.fox5ny.com/news/maga-hat-beating](http://www.fox5ny.com/news/maga-
hat-beating)

~~~
ceejayoz
> What qualifies as "same sort of crowdsourced intimidation tactics"?

Encouraging it.

You let me know when a prominent Democratic candidate does something like
offering to pay legal fees if you beat up the other side, like Trump did:
[https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-
protes...](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-
protests-20160313-story.html)

> “If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of
> them, would you?” Trump said, drawing cheers and laughter. “Seriously, OK?
> Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I
> promise. I promise. They won’t be so much, because the courts agree with us
> too — what’s going on in this country.”

In the case of the media intimidation, calling them "the enemy of the people":
[https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/11142215334617907...](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1114221533461790721)

------
Asooka
Good. China has every right to control its territories and this includes Hong
Kong. If the KKK were to stage an anti-Black protest in an American university
they would be rightfully similarly attacked and persecuted. China is only
defending its rights. Those HK protesters need to face justice.

~~~
mullen
That does not make sense at all. The KKK is not a foreign government sending
its members to foreign colleges to censor students who are lawfully protesting
in their own country.

If Chinese students are offended by what other college students are protesting
in their own country, they can do what everyone else does, ignore them.

~~~
dang
Please don't feed egregious comments by replying. That only makes things
worse.

This is in the site guidelines:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

------
sergiotapia
"Are there chinese influences in australia?"

Does a bear shit in the woods?

~~~
OrgNet
maybe, if you hear about it

------
yeukhon
“Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're
evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters,
or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-
topic.”

This is off-topic.

~~~
ceejayoz
If you're gonna be a rules stickler, you should probably obey them yourself:

> Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam
> or off-topic, flag it.

------
jstewartmobile
While the humanities departments decry the evils of colonialism, admissions
departments never met a rich foreigner they didn't like. Same dynamic for
Hollywood.

I guess they are all being somewhat consistent here, since it probably doesn't
count as colonialism-proper when the indigenous peoples happen to be Anglo.

