
Tell HN: My HN app is rejected by Apple for showing Covid-related submissions - dangwu
Apple has twice rejected a minor update to my Hacker News app for iOS, Octal [1], for breaking Guideline 5.1.1 - Legal - Privacy - Data Collection and Storage [2]. For the first rejection, they included a screenshot of the app&#x27;s search functionality, searching for the term &quot;Covid&quot;, which obviously contains HN submissions with &quot;Covid&quot; in the titles. For the second rejection, they included a screenshot of the app&#x27;s main &quot;Top Stories&quot; view, which happened to have a COVID-19-related submission [3] as one of the top stories. Have any other iOS app developers out there encountered this issue with App Store Review?<p>Apple&#x27;s rejection notes:<p>&gt; We found in our review that your app provides services or requires sensitive user information related to the COVID-19 pandemic. Since the COVID-19 pandemic is a public health crisis, services and information related to it are considered to be part of the healthcare industry. In addition, the seller and company names associated with your app are not from a recognized institution, such as a governmental entity, hospital, insurance company, non-governmental organization, or university.<p>&gt; Per section 5.1.1 (ix) of the App Store Review Guidelines, apps that provide services or collect sensitive user information in highly-regulated fields, such as healthcare, should be submitted by a legal entity that provides these services, and not by an individual developer.<p>&gt; Next Steps<p>&gt; To resolve this issue, your app must be published under a seller and company name of a recognized institution. If you have developed this app on behalf of such an institution, please advise your client to add you to the development team of their Apple Developer account. If your client does not yet have an Apple Developer account, they can enroll for one as an organization through the Apple Developer website.<p>[1] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.apple.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;app&#x2F;octal-hacker-news&#x2F;id1308885491<p>[2] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;app-store&#x2F;review&#x2F;guidelines&#x2F;#data-collection-and-storage<p>[3] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24384308
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stcredzero
_For the first rejection, they included a screenshot of the app 's search
functionality, searching for the term "Covid", which obviously contains HN
submissions with "Covid" in the titles._

So basically, they were asking you to censor with regards to a specific topic?

 _For the second rejection, they included a screenshot of the app 's main "Top
Stories" view, which happened to have a COVID-19-related submission [3] as one
of the top stories._

So they were asking you to censor/distort the top stories of the HN site?

We need to escalate these shenanigans in the tech media!

EDIT: Who in the independent media covers stuff like this? Snazzy Labs? Louis
Rossman would likely rant about this, but his beat is more hardware.

~~~
mrtksn
More like the reviewer not understanding how HN works and rejecting just to be
safe.

If the developer explain it nicely will probably get the app approved as it is
a “reader” app, therefore exempt from some restrictions.

The nice thing about human powered review process is that you can actually
reason with them even if they make mistakes. I am huge believer in the
benefits of having humans instead of algos to deal with. People on Youtube
have their videos removed or demonetized left and right by algorithms that you
can’t really do anything about.

~~~
stcredzero
_If the developer explain it nicely will probably get the app approved as it
is a “reader” app, therefore exempt from some restrictions._

So the corporate policy is that they'll reject, with a low level of
comprehension, and if the developers don't bother to explain, too bad.

From the POV of the reviewer, they benefit from greater throughput, so just
low-comprehension reject, and deal with the clarification.

Apple thinks of itself as some kind of advanced, disruptive, with-it company.
The way it acts, is sometimes more like an atherosclerotic bureaucracy.

~~~
mrtksn
I don’t know if that’s the policy or the reviewer simply screwed up but if the
developer doesn’t bother to explain, yeah, too bad.

Let’s not pretend that explaining what your app does is a huge burden that
only few can overcome.

You sign a business deal with Apple to distribute your app, you are expected
to do your part. If you think that this is something you rather don’t do, then
don’t work with Apple.

I don’t think that having to explain how your app works is a unfair burden in
the business.

~~~
stcredzero
_Let’s not pretend that explaining what your app does is a huge burden that
only few can overcome._

Let's not pretend that convenient nonsensical seeming rejections, which
contradict common sense, and seem to imply a hostile demand of _censorship_
are really an acceptable way of communicating in business.

------
Crazyontap
Sometimes I really wish we devs did to Apple/Google what we did when anti-net
neutrality were forced on us to get this: unite and stop making apps and
updates for one day to get more public attention to the 30% extortion and such
arm twitting by these two companies.

If 10 big companies and thousand of devs joined Epic right now, Apple would be
willing to bend a lot more than its current stance.

~~~
perlpimp
what is literally tortious is that when user refunds they help themselves to
30% and refund it out of your pocket, as if they are not part to publishing
your product and quality checks. It is a cartel like practice needs to be
stopped.

~~~
codazoda
This has been said before and I believe it is incorrect. Apple refunds the 30%
cut in most (all?) cases.

~~~
perlpimp
[https://twitter.com/MrUglyApp/status/1288887602804752385](https://twitter.com/MrUglyApp/status/1288887602804752385)

------
n_u_l_l
From reading the rejection notes, it seems like they misunderstood your app.

You should mail them. Tell them that it is a reader app like Reddit that
contains user generated content. If you're resubmitting it for review, also
tell them that in the review notes. If they still don't understand your app,
ask concrete questions (eg what changes do I have to make in the app store
details to be treated as other reader apps like Reddit). Linking to similar
apps (in this case HN clients) has also helped me when being rejected.

Based on the rejection notes, they simply misunderstood what the app does and
who it is aimed at. Hacker News is not the Apple support and I think you
should ask them what to do before asking us.

They have always been helpful when I contacted them. When my apps were
rejected, it usually took a simple mail and within a day the app changed back
to "Being reviewed", and then "Accepted".

------
rebelde
The way I dealt with something similar is to replace any link with COVID with
a message that says "Due to Apple policy, we cannot show this link in the app.
Please click here to see this page in Safari, where it is allowed."

~~~
polote
seriously? and if Apple ask you to give them 1 million dollar you will do it
also ?

~~~
Jowsey
There's a significant difference between adhering to content guidelines and
paying a company $1,000,000

------
sonicrocketman
I've had this issue before. I run a feed reader called Pine.blog and App
Review has rejected me in the past for content in the feeds the test account
was set up to follow. These feeds don't originate on my site or service.

I had to schedule a call with app review and almost needed to escalate the
call. It seems like App Reviewers aren't familiar with these kinds of apps
anymore. They're used to silos where the app developer could simply ban or
reject the content. You need to explain to a human that you're not providing a
silo. This is a reader app for another community's site.

------
Confiks
FWIW a Dutch blog (often satirical, nonsensical, stupid or any permutation of
those) also has gotten its iOS app rejected six times due to their stories
about covid, but also due to stories about religion and sexuality. Dutch topic
about it here [1], automatic translation here [2].

[1] [https://www.geenstijl.nl/5154709/apples-behavior-isnt-
new](https://www.geenstijl.nl/5154709/apples-behavior-isnt-new)

[2] [https://controlc.com/ab9b13f3](https://controlc.com/ab9b13f3)

------
joelhaasnoot
Can you send them a screenshot of Safari returning Covid results?

~~~
tomovo
They would probably reject the screenshot too.

------
gojomo
If the web browser wasn't grandfathered-in, the Apple & Google App Stores
would ban it.

------
mrtksn
Very nice App OP: [https://apps.apple.com/app/octal-hacker-
news/id1308885491](https://apps.apple.com/app/octal-hacker-news/id1308885491)

Your app should be considered a “reader” app for a web service. Just explain
that in your message for the reviewer.

Try explaining what HN is and how links are posted etc.

After all, not everyone is familiar with every website and it is possible that
the reviewer who is reviewed your app did not understood HN.

Yes it is frustrating but at least you have a human being that you can reason
with.

People in youtube who depend on it for living have their videos removed by an
algorithm and have no recourse. I don’t say this in defense of Apple but in
defense of human involved review process. I suggest taking advantage of it by
being nice and articulate and have the reviewer on your side.

------
g42gregory
I wish the market would begin to shift towards rich-functionality, mobile-
optimized, websites on our cellphones, instead of mobile apps. The
Apple/Google censorship is just getting too much. If we could use websites on
our desktops/laptops, we could use websites on the our cellphones as well. I
think this could be done, right?

------
dangwu
Update: I have successfully appealed the rejection for Guideline 5.1.1.
However, they decided to immediately reject me for a different guideline -
Guideline 4.2.2 - Design - Minimum Functionality.

> We are writing to let you know the appeal results for your app, Octal -
> Hacker News.

> The App Review Board evaluated your app and determined that the original
> rejection feedback was not accurate.

> Your app is not currently in violation of 5.1.1.

> However, the following issue was discovered during our evaluation:

> Guideline 4.2.2 - Design - Minimum Functionality

> We noticed that your app only includes links, images, or content aggregated
> from the Internet with limited or no native iOS functionality. Although this
> content may be curated from the web specifically for your users, since it
> does not sufficiently differ from a mobile web browsing experience, it is
> not appropriate for the App Store.

> We encourage you to review your app concept and work towards creating an app
> that offers customers an engaging and lasting experience that also meets the
> App Store’s high expectations for quality and functionality.

> Apple Developer includes a variety of design and development resources.
> Download iOS templates from Apple UI Design Resources, learn more about
> crafting intuitive, well-designed apps with the Design Video collection, and
> review the iOS Human Interface Guidelines for best practices to follow when
> designing apps for the App Store.

This is my life as an Apple Developer.

------
leetrout
That is so stupid. I bet they didn’t reject Reddit mobile app uploads.

------
user5994461
Google and Apple (and everyone else) have a blanket ban about COVID since the
world has been littered with apps and scams trying to profit off the pandemic.

Your app promotes COVID content (among other things) so it gets banned on
sight. It's super clear cut, don't do that!

You can try to implement a filter to remove articles with specific keywords
(covid, virus, pandemic, etc..). Besides that, don't know if it's good enough
to pass requirements for an app (don't think a simple web reader can pass).

Please don't call that censorship. To call this censorship is a disgrace to
countries where there is real censorship, people being beheaded for saying
anything.

~~~
eeegnu
A term isn't dictated by its most extreme usage, the case you're describing is
authoritarian censorship. Even having to suggest that a filter that removes
keywords apple doesn't want their users to see, just may be sufficient for
your app to be approved, hints strongly that there is a kind of censorship in
place. Arguably not all censorship is even bad, chat filters for obscene words
in certain contexts make perfect sense.

------
Talyen42
The reviewer (a lowly employee just trying to follow a process) clearly made a
mistake and did not follow Apple's guidelines. Manual review processes have
plenty of mistakes, resubmit it.

Most reviewers would not have rejected this, i'm sure.

~~~
dangwu
I submit it twice and got rejected twice, presumably by 2 different reviewers.

------
type0
>> Since the COVID-19 pandemic is a public health crisis, services and
information related to it are considered to be part of the healthcare
industry.

How do you become a part of the healthcare industry? Does it have to be FDA
approved?

Does Apple recognize healthcare apps from companies located in other countries
(non US) or will those not be considered as "recognized institution, such as a
governmental entity, hospital, insurance company, non-governmental
organization, or university"?

------
chiyc
Do similar restrictions apply to other news apps, aggregators, or social
media?

I feel like you should dispute this, but I have no experience with their
review process.

~~~
sonicrocketman
From my conversations with app developers, and my own experience, this is
incredibly common for aggregators. App Reviews are either really unfamiliar
with the concept or they aren't trained to understand them and how they differ
from silos.

------
aabbcc1241
While your application is not accepted by the Apple's app store, I encourage
to publish your application as webapp

------
liability
So much for the reform Apple promised. I don't think many people earnestly
expected anything to actually change.

------
ksec
Do Google Censor Content on COVID 19?

If not, why are Google Search Apps still on the Apps store [1]?

Do Feed and RSS Reader get rejected as well? Along with New Publishing and
Wordpress Reader which may contain COVID 19 information?

And Apple just banned EPIC games for a whole year.

I really dislike this Tim Cook's Apple. Which is in many way much worst than
Steve Jobs's Apple.

I think developers needs to gather and start considering actions together.

[1]
[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942)

~~~
mola
Blaming this stuff on cook is silly. Jobs did the same kind of things. Apple
is made in the image of Jobs, a control freak.

~~~
ksec
It really is a multiple of things, from Qualcomm, Politics, App Store policy.
One might argue Tim Cook doesn't known about any of these as Steve would have,
since Tim doesn't micro manage. But it is not the first time we caught Tim
Cook flat out lying.

------
sushid
Can you just submit it again with no additional changes? As an aside, I am a
pleased customer and love your app.

~~~
rickyc091
Definitely done that at times. It really depends on the luck of the draw with
the reviewer.

------
bzb5
Hide Covid-related submissions until the update has been accepted.

~~~
dangwu
That sounds a bit risky - like if Apple finds out I'll get removed from the
store altogether. I guess I might not have any other option if my appeal
fails...

~~~
Jaxkr
It’s not risky because it would require someone to use their brain to discover
it. The types of people rejecting a link aggregator app for showing COVID
posts is not using their brain; they’re trying to review as many updates as
quickly as possible.

“Wow I saw the word covid, into the garbage bin.”

------
swiley
You should port it to GNU/Linux/PinePhone instead. :p

------
jariel
We need a 7 day walkout by all major app vendors.

------
claytongulick
Sounds like it's time for a PWA?

~~~
john-shaffer
Apple only allows their browser engine on Apple devices and has done
everything they can to make PWAs perform poorly.

~~~
mmis1000
Something like wipe the data completely after several days of unuse for
'privacy' reason. Who the hack would expect any software to do this?

I think the only reasom for this move is to ensure pwa is unusable even for
the most simple application.

~~~
blendergeek
If you "install" a PWA, then that autowipe is turned off. So PWAs still work
and you get enhanced privacy in Safari. That sounds like a win-win to me.

~~~
john-shaffer
"It Just Works" != "It wipes your data without warning unless you perform the
correct incantation"

------
LogsforTwo
What I find most ironic about this conversation is that it is happening inside
kind of censorship observation chamber that HN mods have also created where
certain words and ideas and concepts are censored and others are not permitted
to see.

~~~
dang
Your comment was killed by user flags, but I feel we should optimize for irony
by unkilling it.

