
Prius saves gas money? (follow-up) - vgnet
http://aaronhawley.livejournal.com/29976.html
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astine
"A convenient and fair comparison is the Corolla also made by Toyota."

No a fair comparison would be a non-hybrid Prius. I don't know if Toyota makes
such a vehicle, but Honda makes the Civic in both a hybrid and conventional
model, so a direct comparison would be fair. I'd actually like to see that
analysis as I drive a Civic.

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frankus
To borrow from Joel Spolsky, what this shows you is that you can prove
anything with a contrived example. More specifically, for any comparison that
isn't night-and-day, you can almost always find a reasonable set of
assumptions that leads to your preferred conclusion.

> I don't know if Toyota makes such a vehicle

They don't, and actually the Prius sits between the Corolla and the Camry in
size and features. The cost premium over a Camry is only about $2k, and the
fuel economy improvement is more dramatic. (The Camry has substantially more
power, but the Prius's flat torque curve probably reduces the real-world
difference).

Another problem with this analysis is that on the one hand it ignores resale
value, but on the other hand assumes that the owner won't keep the car more
than a few years. Maybe Priuses have crap resale value, but the author doesn't
state that much less back it up.

But the biggest problem is that only businesses buy cars this way.

People don't buy sports cars because they get them to work faster, and people
don't generally buy SUVs because they have to drive off-road to get to the
grocery store. People buy cars (or forego them) to tell themselves a story
about what kind of person they are (and there are many comical instances where
it tells an entirely different story to others).

Business do buy cars this way, and if you look at those that do a lot of city
driving in an area with even moderately high gas prices (say, Vancouver, with
gas at US$5.15 a US gallon), you'll find that, for instance, 90% of the taxis
are Priuses.

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mc32
> (say, Vancouver, with gas at US$5.15 a US gallon), you'll find that, for
> instance, 90% of the taxis are Priuses.

That appears to be an exaggeration, according to this
[http://www.calgaryjournalonline.ca/news/34-news/1281-calgary...](http://www.calgaryjournalonline.ca/news/34-news/1281-calgary-
taxi-companies-embrace-hybrid-vehicles) as of mid-2010, 50% of the fleet was
hybrid. I suppose it's possible, but unlikely they ramped up that quick to
over 90% hybrid (I imagine there would be some Fusions in the mix like in SF
and Boston).

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ekianjo
The same comparison can be done (for estimating savings) between diesel and
unleaded gas in France. I did a similar calculation years ago and you had to
drive your diesel vehicle more than 10 years before making any savings.
Basically the initial investment trumps the ongoing costs.

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to3m
The price of fuel looms large in people's minds, since it is so visible, but
if you actually keep track, it just doesn't add up to much compared to the
cost of the average new car. Just goes to show, measure before you optimize :)

~~~
ekianjo
Yeah. it's all about perception. Since you refuel often, you see the fuel cost
much more often than the actual initial car costs. It's constantly in a "top
of mind" position for consumers. You can find the same phenomena across
different fields. Like when you hear about people dying from cancer the whole
time on TV, you may feel there is a great risk to actually get it anytime,
while in fact, the main key factor to develop cancer is simply "age" (there
are, of course, young folks diagnosed with cancer, but it's a clear minority).

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rollypolly
Like the article says, saving money isn't the only reason to drive a hybrid.

If you care about the environment, and are wealthy enough, you might be
willing to pay a premium to reduce your carbon footprint.

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waterlesscloud
Like the article also says, you don't actually know if you're reducing your
"carbon footprint" or not.

You don't know how much more carbon is produced in the manufacture of a prius
than the manufacture of a non-hybrid.

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frankus
Price is generally a pretty good indication of resource intensity if you're
comparing two things with generally similar level of externalities and
subsidies/taxes.

If anything I would say the fuel cost understates the externalities, at least
in the US.

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dariusmonsef
This argument only works when comparing a Prius to a Corolla... Which is the
entry level bottom tier sedan from Toyota. I think it would be a bit more fair
to use the Camry as the alternative car.

I'm a Prius owner and I didn't decide to spend an extra $6k just to get a
Prius for the gas savings, otherwise I'd have a Camry. If I didn't buy a Prius
I would have bought a similarly priced car because... that was the price range
I was shopping in.

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felixfurtak
it would be interesting to add resale value to this calculation.

