
Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion - cstuder
http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/
======
pwthornton
The thing I'm by far the most excited about is AirPlay Mirroring. If I'm
reading this correctly, I'll be able to mirror anything from my Mac to my TV
using an Apple TV. This will be great for watching Internet videos, going
through my iPhoto library with my wife, looking at home videos, etc. All
without needing a stupid cable from my couch to my TV.

The deeper iCloud integration is also intriguing. I assume this means proper
syncing between documents on a Mac, iPad and iPhone. This will be a huge
feature, and is currently a major stumbling block with iCloud. I want my
documents to sync to my mobile devices.

Those two features alone are pretty big. Beyond that, I'm interested to here
about the new APIs and anything else that has been changed under the hood.

OS X Lion has always been a little bit buggy (the latest release is pretty
solid, however). I wonder if Mountain Lion will be like Snow Leopard where it
tightens up a lot of things under the hood and gives us a better realization
of the OS.

I'm excited for Gatekeeper for my parents and other people I know that aren't
that tech savvy. This could save me a lot of headaches.

~~~
orionlogic
I am excited as well in AirPlay Mirroring so i watched several times in the
demo. It seems video plays with Quicktime. So lot's of video formats are not
compatible like mkv's, iso's etc...

If somehow i am able to mirror VLC i will run and buy Apple TV at once.

~~~
janus
If you install Perian, Quicktime supports expands to include many more formats
<http://perian.org/>

But I agree and would welcome the support for VLC too!

~~~
orionlogic
I already have Perian. It's not supported well imho. Just try to open a 8gb
mkv and it broke QT.

~~~
calloc
It didn't break Qt, it broke Perian.

That being said, I've got a couple of 8GB MKV's and they all work perfectly.
So caveat emptor and all that ... :P

------
ori_b
" _OS X Mountain Lion arrives this summer. With all-new features inspired by
iPad, the Mac just keeps getting better and better._ "

Am I the only person that doesn't want an ipad on the desktop?

~~~
pwelch
No your not. I want my stuff to sync without issues like my notes, contacts,
mail but I don't want my laptop/desktop to feel like my phone. Example: Launch
pad, is anyone really using this?

~~~
kalleboo
I never use Launchpad, but I'm glad it's there since I've always had trouble
explaining the Applications folder vs the Dock to people, and Launchpad solves
that very nicely for non-technical people (especially ones with
iPhones/iPads).

------
api
I really hope they don't try to converge the interfaces too much. The design
elements in Lion that were very iOS-like were IMHO the worst.

The thing is: pads and phones are fundamentally different kinds of devices.
Their UI paradigm is designed around frequent but brief and relatively shallow
interactions, while a PC is for deeper longer-term interactions. Trying
convergence here seems like something very easy to botch horribly.

~~~
jonnathanson
Agreed. You really can't have a hybrid of the two. It ends up being neither
fish nor fowl -- a suboptimal experience in either form. Either rip off the
band-aid, and go swiftly but painfully through the transition to pure-iOS on
everything, or keep OSX and iOS relatively separate (if, perhaps, working
gradually toward more interoperability).

My guess is that Apple is waiting for the day when cloud computing is the
standard, and there is no longer a great deal of need for the hardware-based
functionality or design of a laptop. When that day comes, a simple iOS-style
interface might be fine for everything. In the meantime, however, there are
still plenty of distinct use cases for Macs and iDevices. Arguably, we're
still in the awkward adolescence of cloud computing. We know it's going to
grow up quickly, but that day isn't quite here yet.

(And let's not forget that Apple is a hardware company and, accordingly, is
probably hesitant to hasten the demise of any of its key hardware lines).

------
feralchimp
I for one welcome our new OS-level code signature verification overlords. May
they smite evil and incompetence swiftly and brutally...except when 'evil' is
defined by foreign governments, domestic law enforcement, or fair competition
with built-in features.

With great power comes great "you guys better not fuck this up."

~~~
yequalsx
"If an app is found to be malware, Apple can revoke that developer’s
certificate, rendering the app (along with any others from the same developer)
inert on any Mac where it’s been installed. "

Yeah, it's not a great reach to think that in five years there will be no
Option 3 and malware will include any program that the government of the
nation that your computer is in deems undesirable. Apple and Microsoft will
likely be forced to have such capabilities by various national governments.

~~~
maercsrats
If you think it's that possible then why not contact your congress
person/senator and have them look into this? In fact, talk to them about
drafting a law against not being able to install software of your choosing on
a machine you buy. Or, at the very least, a law for being able to take your
data with you when you decide to leave a platform. This wouldn't help China,
Iran, Syria, etc. but it would at least give US citizens some protections.

Personally, I'm not very afraid of option 3 ever going away but I also am
ready with a FreeBSD VM instance.

------
CJefferson
Wow, that snuck out without much advanced fanfare (or I missed it).

I first glance, the main (in fact only) feature seems to be porting several
iOS apps and features (notes, reminders, game center, etc.) to Mac OS X, and
syncing everything together with iCloud.

There is also a Growl clone. Surprised this took so long. Then again, I
personally don't like Growl, so I hope nothing depends on it being turned on.

I notice that, so far, there doesn't seem to be any new 'technologies', just
(mainly) ports of iOS apps.

Looks very ho hum to me, but then again I have an android phone, so iOS
syncing doesn't really interest me.

~~~
Hemospectrum
Growl gets a lot of things wrong and stagnated for years with (until recently)
no sign of improvement. It was ripe for disruption. Maybe Apple's
implementation will be less depressing.

------
pilif
It seems like the OS is either defaulting to allowing only only App Store
applications or at least only (Apple-)signed applications:
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html>

It's still possible to turn this off, but I have a feeling that we should
enjoy our freedom to run GNU grep instead of BSD grep for as long as it lasts.

~~~
st3fan
Read what Gruber writes about that Gatekeep feature:

My favorite Mountain Lion feature, though, is one that hardly even has a
visible interface. Apple is calling it “Gatekeeper”. It’s a system whereby
developers can sign up for free-of-charge Apple developer IDs which they can
then use to cryptographically sign their applications. If an app is found to
be malware, Apple can revoke that developer’s certificate, rendering the app
(along with any others from the same developer) inert on any Mac where it’s
been installed. In effect, it offers all the security benefits of the App
Store, except for the process of approving apps by Apple. Users have three
choices which type of apps can run on Mountain Lion:

    
    
      * Only those from the App Store
      * Only those from the App Store or which are signed by a developer ID
      * Any app, whether signed or unsigned
    

The default for this setting is, I say, exactly right: the one in the middle,
disallowing only unsigned apps. This default setting benefits users by
increasing practical security, and also benefits developers, preserving the
freedom to ship whatever software they want for the Mac, with no approval
process.

~~~
pilif
Gruber was telling that the Apple ID was going to be free. It isn't. It
requires a Mac Developer account as far as I could understand it.

When I was 15 I wrote a Taskbar dialer for Windows 9x and later NT (this was
in the modem days. Of course I haven't updated it in ages and the only reason
my old webpage is still there is because I found it by accident in an old
backup, but here is a google search for it:
[https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=RasInTask](https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=RasInTask)).

I published that on the various download pages and it was good enough to even
be featured in dead-tree publications.

Back then I had no permission to use a computer ("they make you stupid" was my
parents argument) and certainly no credit card to pay anybody to do
development - and even then, as a minor I would probably never have gotten
that certificate.

With this rule in place I would never have been able to publish that dialer. I
would never have felt how it is to make something that others can use and find
useful. I would never have ended up where I am today.

Does this stop malware? Does this stop fraudulent call centers? Does this stop
malicious people from telling people to turn it off and then still installing
the malware? No.

Does it stop people like me from ever getting to their career of their dreams?
Likely.

I might be an old fart, but this is _far_ from acceptable.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
Hold on, XCode is free (without a developer login) you could install that and
write the app.

You can then publish it on websites exactly as you did and those who choose
the appropriate security setting can run it. You have a smaller audience yes,
but you can still do what you did.

And while this doesn't stop Malware, it does raise the bar a little higher.

Out of interest how would you feel about it if developer licenses were free
for students?

~~~
pilif
_Out of interest how would you feel about it if developer licenses were free
for students?_

I would be much happier (to the effect of actually seeing more good than bad
in this restriction) if getting that ID was a matter of filling out a form an
passing a turing test - so, for example, if any apple ID could be used to get
a signing certificate, that would be much better.

(edit: this is not about the money. It's about they way of payment (minors
don't have credit cards) and the required paperwork that, among other things,
require you to be an adult)

~~~
k-mcgrady
A license is $99. If you can afford a Mac to develop on your can certainly
afford a $99 license.

They reason the have the fee is to keep out people who aren't serious about
development. If they didn't have it for example the forums would be overrun
with people who just signed up to get the latest OS beta complaining about
bugs (this is already a problem at $99).

People can still develop and distribute apps without ever signing up with
Apple. This restriction is a good protection step for users imo.

~~~
gergles
You shouldn't have to prove that you're "serious about development" by paying
money to write and distribute software. How many developers started as
hobbyists?

Charging $100 just to be capricious is not a good move and is certainly not a
good omen for OS 10.9 "Tabby" wherein you can be almost certain they will
remove the option to run unsigned software (for your own protection, of
course! You don't want to pay Apple $100? What are you, poor? The computer
cost $1000! $generic_strawman_argument!)

~~~
k-mcgrady
You don't need to pay ANY money to write software for the Mac. Xcode is free.
You don't need to pay any money to distribute software for the Mac. Distribute
it through your own website. You need to pay to sell through the Mac App
Store. I also presume you need to pay if you want it signed. Well that's a
privilege. It helps you prove to potential customers your app is safe. You
benefit from it so you should have to pay for it.

If you develop an app with the purpose of selling it on the Mac App Store for
profit $100 should not be a problem for you.

If you want to distribute it yourself, go ahead. Apple is not charging you.

------
ashleyw
The worrying thing about Apple's Gatekeeper feature isn't that they _may_
impose their moral opinions on apps, but that governments and corporate
entities will have the ability to pressure Apple into disabling apps which
aren't actually malicious, i.e. Tor & BitCoin.

Whether or not it can be disabled is irrelevant. I don't want to have to
instruct my customers about how to essentially jailbreak their Mac just to use
my app.

And will it just be .app applications which need to be signed, or will it be
all binaries, e.g. Vim and Apache?

Worrying times indeed. I don't particularly want to use Linux, cause I really
love OS X's elegance, but I can see switching being a real possibility over
the next few years if Apple continues the trend of forcing iOS's walled-garden
on OS X.

------
bwarp
Nothing exciting. Let me quantify this before I get shot by the Apple fanboys.
I'm not a Microsoft fanboy either but I am not buying the hype and feature
sheet.

Example:

1\. iCloud. Have Windows Live ID and Live Mesh integration in windows for
nearly 3 years now. Works across mobile devices already.

2\. Messages. Windows Live Messenger has social integration already which is
on par with this.

3\. Reminders. Windows Live calendar does this and gives you alerts through
windows live messenger and email.

4\. Notes. NOTHING on this planet compares to Microsoft's OneNote.

5\. Notification center. Windows live has one built in that you can integrate
with. Oh and you also have the system tray.

6\. Share sheets. Windows has had "sent to" since about 1996.

7\. Twitter. Windows live integration.

8\. Game center. We have shops for that and Steam and all sorts. It's an open
market.

9\. Airplay mirroring. Woo yay etc. Windows media player (!) does this with my
Sony Bravia with no complaints. I can right click a video file and select
"play on Bravia" and it appears on it straight away. This required NO
CONFIGURATION and no special boxes. Both have wireless cards in them. No store
or DRM available or required.

10\. Gatekeeper. Windows firewall is actually on par with this and is an
application AND/OR system level firewall. Microsoft security essentials is the
rest.

11\. Chinese features. Windows is the mainstream OS in china for a reason
(i.e. excellent language support).

The only thing above that cost anything is Windows (which cost effectively
nothing as it came with the PC) and OneNote (which cost me 200GBP) and
included Word, Excel and Outlook as well. Oh and the nice Acer TimelineX
machine only cost me 400GBP, TV cost 300GBP so total 900GBP

Compare that to a MacBook which cost more than that to start with at 999GBP.

Oh and I don't have to pay 99GBP to write software that works on it. Visual
Studio is free.

Doesn't add up.

Hmm.

~~~
illumin8
OneNote only comes with Microsoft Office. Which you can also purchase for Mac.
Xcode is free. A developer code signing certificate costs money whether you
buy it through Apple or Verisign. Want to release trusted apps on Windows that
don't throw up scary looking security warnings to your users that download
them? Guess you'll need to pay $299 a year to Verisign or some other CA for
that privilege.

Gatekeeper is actually a cool feature because now any developer will be able
to release signed applications without going through the app store approval
process. If they do nasty things, their certificate gets revoked. You get the
benefits to the user of running signed/trusted code, and the benefits to the
developer of deploying for free, without app store approval.

~~~
masklinn
> A developer code signing certificate costs money whether you buy it through
> Apple or Verisign.

According to Gruber, signing OSX apps will be free (which is sensible: it's
really a service _to Apple_ )

~~~
illumin8
Sorry if I wasn't clear. It still costs $99 for an ADC account to release
signed apps through the Mac app store, however, now with Gatekeeper you will
also have a free option in case you want to distribute signed apps on your
own.

------
furyg3
You can get the _Messages_ application in beta form here:
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/messages-beta/>

~~~
brown9-2
Expectedly, but somewhat of a bummer, it requires Lion :(

------
Gring
According to the screenshots, the spotlight icon is no longer on the top
right, getting shuffled over to the left by presumably a new icon to invoke
notification center.

That's a really bad choice. The corners are the click targets fastest to reach
(see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fittss_law> ), and demoting searching in
favor of 'reading messages that have popped up before' doesn't strike me as
quite well-balanced.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
It gets worse; can also call it up with a two-finger swipe to the left. Not
sure why they're so intent on overloading that gesture.

Two fingers in SL:

* Scroll.

Two fingers in ML:

* Scroll

* or back/forward

* or Notification Center

~~~
cpr
It looks like the two fingers have to come in from the right side of the
scroll area (like pulling down on the top of the screen--the right side in
this case), so it's distinct from the other meanings.

------
2mur
The only thing that I really dislike about iCloud is sharing a computer (with
your wife/family).

Our family room computer is a mac mini that is logged into one user account
all of the time. It is shared by myself, my wife and my kids. The iPhoto on
that account is set up to use my iCloud account. If my wife wants to get her
photos (iPhone) downloaded from iCloud she has to log over to an account that
only exists for this purpose.

So I'm sure the whole documents, todos, calendar and everything else on 10.8
is going to be a similar pain in the ass for people sharing one computer.

We have to manage three AppleIDs. My iCloud account, her iCloud account and we
share an AppleID for purchases from the App Store. They need to fix this for
multi-Apple families.

~~~
Aloisius
Why don't you use multiple user accounts on your Mac Mini? That's pretty much
what it is designed for.

~~~
pwelch
I agree. For those who want one account for everyone then just register all
your devices. If you want everyone in your household to have separate accounts
then just have different logins...

------
Lewisham
I know it's not a popular opinion, but yet again I feel like Apple has decided
to simply keep status quo with Mac OS X, which is very much the same Mac OS X
we got from about 10.3 onwards (Panther, wasn't it)?

Think about how different Ubuntu is now since then. Windows 8 is a real risk-
take from a company that does not take risks (whether they were forced to do
so or not is another argument). Mac OS X is... Mac OS X again.

I've been using Mac OS X since 10.2, and I will get another Apple machine for
my next one, but I really don't know why they bother putting anything out if
they're just going to phone it in each time. Pretty much everything added to
Lion I really don't care for, and what they did add was minimal anyway.

I wonder if they really have the vision and the tenacity to actually move
things forward, or whether iOS and Mac OS X are going to remain the way they
are until the company can't take it anymore. They need a software person like
hardware needs Johnny Ive. Someone to put their foot down, say "we're doing
this" and follow through.

The next 10 years of Mac OS X cannot be the same as the last 10 years, can it?

~~~
nchlswu
Mac OS is at a point where they simply can't take these drastic jumps that you
may see in the competition. For one, they're now at a yearly cycle. Two, the
audience has expanded and continues to expand it's user base.

OS X's yearly cycles allows them to take a loyal user base who will upgrade
and gradually introduce them to paradigm shifts, like cloud storage. Apple is
taking calculated steps to make sure any of their risk taking features are
done right and presented to the consumer correctly so they're adopted. I think
they definitely have the vision. Something they do even better is have the
patience to make sure their vision comes to fruition (mostly) correctly.

I can understand your point, but I'm not sure what progress you want. I'm more
inclined to say that you're a segment that Apple doesn't quite need.

~~~
Lewisham
It seems to me that Apple doesn't think that the Mac is a segment it needs at
all.

I would place money on Apple killing the Mac within 10 years, moving all
consumers to iOS (which, let's face it, they're doing all by themselves), and
releasing Xcode onto a Linux distro and wash their hands of desktop computing
once and for all.

Apple clearly doesn't see a lot of future in the desktop, and that may well be
right.

------
zephyrfalcon
I'm not sure if this matters or not, but the submitted title calls it "Mac OS
X 10.8 Mountain Lion", and 10.8 is indeed the version number I would expect;
yet this number is nowhere to be found, neither on Apple's page nor in
Gruber's announcement. Instead, it's just called "OS X Mountain Lion"
everywhere. I wonder if they dropped the version number, or are downplaying
it? But for what reason?

~~~
cmelbye
I saw a screenshot of the "About This Mac" screen that displayed 10.8 as the
version number. I believe it was on the TechCrunch article.

~~~
macuenca
This is the article your talking about: <http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/16/os-
x-mountain-lion/>

------
zrgiu_
is there a specific reason they needed to update the entire OS for this ? Most
of the new features are actually apps, and the rest wouldn't really justify a
major version change.

~~~
Argorak
Well, Ubuntu does this every 6 months. They also pick another silly name every
12. Maybe Ubuntu is becoming the role model here?

~~~
graywh
Every 6-month Ubuntu release has a silly name.

~~~
Argorak
Actually, yes. Comes from using LTS-releases only :).

~~~
mortil
LTS releases are every 24 months.

------
va_coder
It looks like an enormous distraction box. They should top it off with a
widget for HN ;)

------
___Calv_Dee___
Apple, as usual, really seems to be getting it right. The feature list looks
super promising as a nextstep (sorry, had to) in unifying mobile with desktop.
It's nice to see that the desktop OS is not being abandoned but instead
updated to better reflect a consumers preference for mobile (with good
reason). Microsoft has also got it right by tying their Metro interface in
Windows 8 to the Windows Phone OS. The attempt, however, falls short in that
it is not really unifying the two platforms but instead providing a common
interface and feel. In order to truly unite desktop with mobile, I believe you
need to go beyond providing a common interface and really integrate the
components so they exist to the user simultaneously instead of in parellel.
This is just another verification (and in my opinion, a big one) that mobile
is taking the reigns and is the future.

------
jsz0
I really like where Apple is heading with OSX. With iCloud and a common set of
features/services iOS and OSX are developing a very symbiotic relationship. It
kind of confuses me to see people saying Apple is trying to turn OSX into iOS.
It's really the exact opposite from my perspective. They are evolving OSX to
be part of a future where SmartPhones/tablets are a major part of how people
use technology. There has to be some degree of feature/usability parity for
these devices to co-exist happily. Why should my $500 iPad have AirPlay and
not my $1500 Mac? If I like using the Reminders app on my iPhone why shouldn't
I have it on my Mac? I've yet to see any good argument _against_ these
features that doesn't rely pretty heavily on nostalgia or fear of change.

------
miles_matthias
I'm all for OS X adopting more and more of iOS because it's great for the user
experience. However as a hacker it feels wrong to have a computer that is as
locked down as iOS devices. BUT Apple showed me that they are listening and
still want to cater to developers when they announced GateKeeper
(<http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html>).

I have a few friends who are switching to Unix instead of Mac OS X because of
the direction it's going. For me, it's going to be all about how much Apple
allows developers to innovate on their platform. We'll see what happens, but
GateKeeper is a good sign.

~~~
un1xl0ser
I agree that I don't like where it is going, but we aren't really the target
audience.

I was looking to get CrunchBang Linux running on my MBP, but realistically the
battery life change will make the device hard to justify. If I am going to go
back to 2-3 hours of battery life, I'm probably going to have to change my
hardware setup to get a Thinkpad with a pair of nine cells.

That said, I can't even flip my virtualization set-up, because I doubt that it
is going to be smooth sailing (license-wise and technically) running a copy of
OS X in VirtualBox or VMware.

------
zdw
Feature rundown:

<http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/features.html>

One of the more interesting bits is at the - they're supporting a bunch of
China specific services.

~~~
127001brewer
Very interesting. From the features list at the bottom:

*It’s a new Mac experience in China. OS X Mountain Lion brings all-new support for many popular Chinese services. And they’re easy to set up. Mail, Contacts, and Calendar work with QQ, 163, and 126. Baidu, the leading Chinese search provider, is a built-in option in Safari. The video-sharing websites Youku and Tudou are included in the new Share Sheets, so users in China can easily post videos to the web. They can also blog with Sina weibo, the popular microblogging service. And with improved text input, typing in Chinese is easier, faster, and more accurate."

~~~
smackfu
I'm surprised there wasn't a China Twitter equivalent baked in. Or do they
just use Twitter?

~~~
philwelch
"Sina weibo, the popular microblogging service."? "Microblogging" is the
generic term for Twitter clones, is it not?

~~~
smackfu
Good point, and the wording is a bit unclear over whether that goes on the
"Sharing Sheets" or is more like the Twitter integration.

------
antirez
Messages is great, but is there a way to get every iMessage duplicated across
iPhone / Mac? Otherwise you send an iMessage, close the mac, grap the iPhone
and go away, but never get the reply back. And so forth.

~~~
a2tech
Thats the way it works. My iPad, iPhone and now Messages Beta display every
message

~~~
Arelius
At least 2 weeks ago I also was not seeing that behaivor. I had to unpaid my
iPad because I was missing vital messages on my iPhone. Its possible that my
iPhone was out of service at the time. But that shouldnt matternn

------
colonel_panic
No mention of an OpenGL update. Still waiting out this stone age here...

~~~
wmf
They didn't mention any low-level API changes, which could either mean there
are none or they just didn't mention them.

------
tensor
The tie-ins to the closed Apple ecosystem are really startling. Take someone
like myself. I have no iOS devices and have friends on various operating
systems and services. Perhaps I'm a minority, but this is how it breaks down
for me.

iCloud - not useful, no iOS devices.

Messages - not useful, too Apple centric, I already use Adium to interface
with several non-apple services.

Reminders - not useful, wont' sync to my phone. I already just use CalDAV via
iCal for this.

Notes - not useful, wont' sync anywhere, I already use the much better
Evernote.

Notification Center - maybe, but it only works with App Store apps of which I
have few. I used to use Growl from the command line to notify me when long
running computational jobs were completed, but if it's locked to App Store
apps I suppose I won't be able to use it for that.

Share Sheets - maybe, but I already use Sparrow instead of Mail and Chrome
instead of Safari. I use another photo hosting site that isn't Flickr and
don't use Twitter.

Twitter - don't use it.

Game Center - not at all a compelling feature for me.

AirPlay Mirroring - don't have an Apple TV and prefer more open platforms for
this.

Gatekeeper - this is a good idea in principle, remains to be seen if it gets
in the way.

The exclusive partnering and increasingly closed Apple ecosystem is really
showing. Maybe I'm a very small minority, but this direction is not in the
slightest bit thrilling to me. Where are all the options to plug your own
services into the system?

------
nilsbunger
The magic of Mac is that it's BOTH a great developer / hacker machine
(POSIX/BSD + GNU tools with great hardware, power mgmt, etc), and a great
machine for people who don't know how to use computers.

It's inevitable that the layer for non-techies feels more and more integrated
with iOS.

Will we ever lose access to the do-anything BSD box underneath? That will be a
sad day for me - Windows+cygwin is an abomination.

~~~
there
I can't imagine Apple ever removing the open Unix access in its OS X server
due to so many customers relying on it (though I can't really imagine them
removing it in the normal OS X either, but who knows). Maybe power users will
just have to upgrade to OS X server on their laptops, like Windows NT
Workstation.

------
huskyr
So i need to reboot my Mac after installing the Messages demo? Can't remember
ever seeing that with an Apple product other than Xcode.

~~~
286c8cb04bda
iTunes updates often require a reboot. Previous iWork installs have also.

Most of the time, an actual restart is not required, just logging out and then
back in.

------
coob
The next time Apple does this style of announcement, I'm inclined to believe
that they may release the info themselves half an hour or so before their
embargo ends. The first I heard about this, before there were any changes to
the Apple site, was a tweet.

------
cpr
Sigh.

Others have hinted at this, but I'll say it outright: I've been a pretty solid
Mac user/developer for 25 years (with a 3-year interlude on Windows + ThinkPad
towards the end of classic MacOS, when the lack of true multitasking and a
"real" operating system just got unbearable).

I suppose it's inevitable, but I really hate to see the Mac become just
another part of the whole iOS ecosystem.

There's nothing specific I can point to, but it does feel like the end of
general-purpose computing for those of us who really like Apple hardware.

Edit: Perhaps I'm wrong, and the cloudification is happening everywhere: with
Chromebooks/Chrome OS, with Win8, etc. So maybe this is the inevitable
regardless of which platform(s) one enjoys.

Linux, here we come? ;-)

~~~
callahad
I'm feeling the same malaise. I want to blame it on the Mac App Store, XCode
dropping GNU GCC, Gatekeeper, etc. feeling like a slowly tightening noose, but
honestly, I don't think that's it. After all, I'm willing to put up with the
same sort of signed software model on Android.

Still, if someone can point me to a hassle-free Linux laptop in a MacBook Air
form factor, I'll jump ship in a heartbeat.

~~~
seurahepo
Going to LLVM and dropping GCC is the best single Dev Tools related choice
Apple has done since acquiring NeXT.

------
jakemcgraw
Wow. It's the reverse digital hub strategy. The peripheral devices (iPod,
iPhone, iPad) are now more popular than the Mac. So, rather than sunset the
Mac, Apple makes it so that if you own own of these devices, a Mac will be the
default choice.

------
mbesto
The walls are slowly going up around the garden...

~~~
jpravetz
I'm most alarmed with this restriction:

 _iCloud document storage and Notification Center. Both of these are slated
only for third-party apps from the Mac App Store. Many developers, though,
have been maintaining non-Mac App Store versions of their apps. If this
continues, such apps are going to lose feature parity between the App Store
and non-App Store versions._

This will affect software from companies such as Adobe where custom installers
are necessary and/or the economics of taking a 30% App Store hit is not
necessary when they can already reach their customer base. The move strikes me
as anti competitive.

------
crag
I wished they'd fix bugs in lion before releasing the next version. Bluetooth
problems, wireless connection (mostly with new MBA's, etc ) - there are huge
threads on both these issues in the Apple forums. Among many others.

------
dedene
Is it just me or is the iMessage Beta icon very very similar to the HipChat
icon? :)

<http://cl.ly/3m060G3x1o2X3I1u3I1D>

~~~
ceejayoz
Messages (iChat) has been around far longer than HipChat.

------
rads
Does Mountain Lion allow you to make apps full-screen on non-primary displays?
This is the main problem I have with Lion.

~~~
lunchladydoris
Agreed. I was more than a little annoyed to discover that I couldn't watch
iTunes Store movies full-screen on my HD TV through an displayport-to-HDMI
adapter after upgrading to Lion. I actually gave some thought to going back to
Snow Leopard but that seemed more bother than it was worth so I started
renting movies on the Xbox 360 instead.

------
squealingrat
First off- I think Gatekeeper will further lure the average user into a false
sense of security. Second, Apple needs to simplify how users are identified
when communicating with iMessages. Third- it's curious that they didn't have a
formal announcement.

------
joejohnson
The Messages beta has significantly impacted my productivity in one day. I no
longer have to look down at my phone to text while I'm at my desk and instead
can chat with my SO all day while I work, and the them it appears like a text
message.

------
r00fus
It's amusing that Gatekeeper's icon looks a lot like Microsoft Security
Essentials, but that (and Messages) is probably my main draw - gotta keep the
parents safe on their respective all-important iOS and OSX life-centers.

------
dfc
How is the iCloud focus going to effect corporate adoption? If you are a large
company can you host your own iCloud service on company resources? Does/will
apple provide a sas70 for big corporate users?

------
SODaniel
Open letter to every UI designer trying to change 30+ years of usability of
desktop interfaces, mouse actions and shortcuts behavior to 'iPad style' that
has been out all of 3 years: DON'T!!

------
mmuro
I'm looking forward to the day when I don't have to worry about my file system
and apps just know what files it needs or can view.

iCloud seems to be moving things in that direction.

------
SeanLuke
Is it really true that Apple didn't realize it's _already used this cat in an
OS X release_?

OSX 10.1 Puma.

Puma, Cougar, and Mountain Lion are names for the same species of cat (Puma
concolor).

~~~
msbarnett
The release code words are just that: code words. They're not meant to
represent some kind of underlying biological reality. OS X 10.1 was not code-
named "The biological species _Puma concolor_ ", and OS X 10.8 is not code-
named "The biological species _Puma concolor_ ".

The code-names "Puma" and "Mountain Lion" are _distinct words_ , ergo they
represent different releases. That in biology these words refer to the same
species of cat is utterly irrelevant.

------
SODaniel
OS version update for something that Windows would call an 'optional update'.
Way to squeeze every drop of PR out of a few new icons Apple!

------
dean
Yawn. A whole OS upgrade to move a few iPad apps to the desktop? Apps I don't
even use on my iPad. Hopefully there will be more than this.

------
graywh
But they've already had a "Puma" release. Will "Cougar" be next?

Side note: panthers are technically black leopards or jaguars.

------
ksajadi
I wish anything that uses Growl can use notifications out of the box. it's
just not going to happen is it?

------
oomkiller
Is the messages beta download broken for anyone else? I would really like to
send iMessages from my Mac.

~~~
dutchbrit
Here you go...
[http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5k...](http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5km/MessagesBeta.dmg)

------
dgallagher
Can anyone comment on any differences in Mission Control (e.g. Spaces) between
10.7 and 10.8 beta?

------
pnathan
I guess I am looking at Lion and Mountain Lion and not seeing a place for
someone who works outside of the Apple target audience. I like the way I use
mac books, which is "skin over Unix with usable UX and a mighty fine piece of
HW".

I think it's time I started looking at high-end Linux laptops...

------
kule
I'm surprised that there's still no mention of a Mac version of iBooks...

------
niels_olson
Any evidence in the preview that they plan to have 3G in their laptops?

------
dekz
So does this imply touchescreens with the iOS Gaming Center to come?

------
xster
notes and reminders are features?? sigh... I miss steve...

------
j45
I hope it doesn't turn out to be Mountain Goat. Lion broke my external
displays working properly while in clamshell (closed laptop) mode.

Conveniently, if I connect it to an Apple display, it's magic, but somehow
not.

------
AznHisoka
Am I the only one afraid of upgrading my Mac in fear of breaking my Ruby gems,
MySQL drivers, C libraries, ImageMagick, environment variables, iOS libraries,
provisioning certificates, etc?

------
alexanderberman
Does anyone else see Notes as an Evernote killer?

------
rbanffy
"Log out, stage left!"

Sorry folks, Couldn't resist.

------
xster
how much you think you should pay? 1000$????? 500$????? nooooooo!! only 99$,
you get a clock, paint and even reversi! for only 99$!!

------
Craiggybear
Already?

~~~
latch
they are adopting a 1-year release cycle.

~~~
bdunbar
Fascinating. I'm still on 10.6: no compelling reason to upgrade.

By the time I _do_ upgrade I'm in for some future shock: like dropping a
Victorian gentleman into Haight-Ashbury in 1968.

~~~
vidarh
My work laptop is on 10.5.8...

~~~
cake
I'm still on 10.5.8 too, I want to upgrade but I really don't see any reason
why I should.

------
edu
I hope it'll be a free update.

~~~
RKearney
You mean like how every other update was free?

It will cost $29

~~~
edu
Yes, with the difference that the other OS X updates were not just a bunch of
iOS Apps ported to the Mac, that why I paid for them and that's why if
Mountain Lion is release with a price tag over $0 I'll keep using Lion (and
hopefully this will incentivize Apple to make a real OS X update somewhere in
2013-2014).

------
josteink
Accidentally bans ultrabooks in the process.

<http://mashable.com/2012/02/15/apple-patents-macbook-air/>

~~~
jws
Just a design patent [<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent>], nothing
to see here. Don't make your ultra book look like an air and you are fine.
(Hint: pay attention to materials, radiuses, colors, and angles.)

How close you can get involves how much tolerance you have for litigation and
risking a loss.

------
poodougnut
Right, so they've completely trashed the interface.

------
mikerg87
But where is the Mac Touch hardware ? you could see for a while where touch
was it and we have these nice laptops and big iMac displays but we will use a
mouse ?! I really want my next imac to be a docking station with a tear away
tablet

Windows 8 is definately banking having this sort of hardware in laptops and
displays being available. You dont do Metro on the desktop unless you think
that kind of hardware will be available in some form at launch. Metro with a
mouse is hideous, even for Microsoft...

~~~
rsynnott
You'd have to either make your operating system work very well with both touch
and mouse/trackpad/keyboard (very difficult), treat touch as a gimmick (as
with those Windows 7 HP iMac-like things with touch screens), or make touch
(which is ergonomically highly problematic on anything but a smallish tablet)
the first-class citizen.

------
saturdaysaint
-I'd probably pay $30 for the Airplay feature alone. -I don't know how Apple thinks they can push these web-enabled apps that only work on their platforms. A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical. -Gatekeeper won't win over any Apple critics, but it's actually more flexible/open than what a lot of people feared was coming (ie "App Store apps only"). -Notifications and system-wide share buttons are nice touches. I wonder if the share button will be limited to a few Apple-approved services.

~~~
jws
_A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind
of comical._ – would be. Thankfully you probably know people with AIM, XMPP,
or SMS chat identities. And iChat works with those too.

From the official Apple pages: _Messages supports iMessage and instant
messaging services such as AIM, Jabber, Google Talk, and Yahoo! Messenger._

~~~
bergie
It would be great if they brought those other protocols to the iOS Messages
app as well

