
Tell HN: Don't post if you're not actually hiring - whistlerbrk
Second time this has happened to me and I&#x27;m frankly annoyed. I&#x27;m dabblin with the idea of full time and over the last two &quot;Who&#x27;s Hiring&quot; posts I&#x27;ve found company&#x27;s which have both piqued my interest and for who I have many many years of relevant experience in their stack. I write, excited to have a conversation, point to a relatively polished portfolio, and an HR person comes back to tell me that the position is filled or they are hiring a stronger match.<p>I don&#x27;t want to whine too much but I feel like there is some SV pedigree nonsense going down here. Bottom line. Don&#x27;t post in that thread if you have no intention of talking with the people who email you.
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lvh
As someone who is actually hiring (not on the HN thread), has actually hired
people in the last few weeks, is actively interviewing new people, and has had
the "you're not actually hiring" accusation leveled at them, _please_ consider
that maybe they _are_ really hiring, but:

\- are swamped with people applying in addition to trying to build a product,

\- may actually have hired someone, and that person may actually be a better
hire.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I really am. That doesn't mean there's
malice at play. Also, please try not to kill the messenger; it is entirely
possible that even if malice is at play, the person you're talking to isn't
the perpetrator. It would not be the first time that a hiring manager believes
there's an open rec until they try to fill it.

I don't know what you are referring to with "SV pedigree nonsense", but I'm
assuming you mean that people aren't willing to hire you because you haven't
been in the right SV scene. That's certainly possible. I can also tell you
that my team currently has zero people in SV, people across the US and outside
of it (as in transatlantic), and we still had the issue I described above.
That doesn't mean that isn't what happened in your case, of course.

(EDIT: formatting.)

~~~
kafkaesq
Quick question -- have you ever told someone a position was "filled" when you
were still actively fielding?

That's the behavior the OP was referring to.

~~~
lvh
No. I have not done that when I was hiring, and I would rather resign than do
that now if I were told to do so today.

We have obviously not moved forward with some candidates. They got answers;
they were always candid and truthful, and combining that with appropriate tact
is somewhat of an art ;)

~~~
kafkaesq
That's reassuring. Thanks.

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ivraatiems
Have you considered that a) you may genuinely not be a good fit or b) they
have in fact hired somebody since you contacted them?

You have a good point, I'm just thinking there are non-malicious explanations
to consider first.

~~~
whistlerbrk
Without revealing too much about the company in particular which led me to
post, a) I am very easily a good fit b) a day has elapsed since the "Who's
Hiring" post, so I really don't think so. But yes, I could be completely wrong
and misreading this all.

~~~
bayonetz
Data point: I advertised a job on whoishiring and within a day had received
40+ strong resumes (and 100+ overall). I only made it through maybe 5 before I
found the one we hired. I responded "thanks for hiring" to as many of the
others as I could before I had to get back to my regular duties.
Unfortunately, many got no reply at all. I would scan some the later ones
sometimes just to see if maybe even better folks had applied. Yes, there were
probably even stronger folks who applied later but I had to make a move and go
for the earlier guy or risk losing the known (at the time) quantity. I'm sure
this is pretty standard for most people hiring on HN. I wouldn't take it too
personally.

~~~
hobolord
Yeah I'd expect this is pretty standard, what bugs me is when I reply and
don't get a response, and see the posting again for the next month.

~~~
Throwaway01189
I imagine that my response will be heavily criticized, but as someone who
hires people regularly, I throw away any application with bad grammar. In my
experience, the most versatile and successful candidates can not only program,
but can also write properly.

The above sentence, "Yeah I'd expect this is pretty standard, what bugs me is
when..." is a comma splice. You should replace the comma with a semicolon or a
period. "Yeah I'd expect this is pretty standard," and "what bugs me is
when..." are independent clauses and thus should not be be split with a comma.

Maybe you're more careful with your applications, but it's easy for these
types of things to slip in if such errors are habitual. It may be hurting your
chances, as I'm probably not the only grammar Nazi out there.

~~~
hobolord
Yeah I'll agree with you. I don't usually proofread any of my comments online
(maybe I should). Funny thing is that I once considered getting a major in
English.

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ddorian43
Yeah, specially hate those "we are always hiring" companies that are just
"waiting for antirez to apply".

~~~
mooreds
Super lame. Is there a github list of those companies? Would be nice to have a
blacklist to check against.

~~~
d0ugie
This practice is so prevalent from what I've seen that you'd be better off
with a whitelist. Sigh.

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baggachipz
Back when I was searching, I also hated it when "Valley or REMOTE" meant
"Remote, in that we'll try to get you to move to the Valley for a meager
salary."

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kafkaesq
_I write, excited to have a conversation, point to a relatively polished
portfolio, and an HR person comes back to tell me that the position is filled
or they are hiring a stronger match._

No, actually they _are_ hiring. They just aren't hiring you.

When companies say the position is "filled," it's just an artful way (or so
they would like to think) of saying that they're passing on you -- but are
still looking for a better match.

So when you see the exact same ad posted again next month, in the very same
spot, don't be in the least surprised.

Yes, it sucks that things are this way. It's a sucky industry generally, when
it comes to simple things like communicating honestly, and treating candidates
is if they're regular adults (capable of taking a straight-up rejection),
rather than children, who need to be fed a "line" so they'll go and play
somewhere else.

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eeeeeeeeeeeee
Maybe don't assume the worst of people immediately? Why would someone take the
time to post jobs to hacker news if they didn't really have openings? You're
implying that is what they're doing, which makes no rational sense.

Like others have said, it's very possible the position has already been filled
or you were not a good fit.

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s986s
I think there is a discussion to be had about supply, demand, capability,
filtering and communication. Im personally fine with the unnecessary whos
hiring since I ignore them. I also believe that y combinator has every
incentive to enable these companies. But infuriating potential employees and
validators of a product does not seem productive to ensuring high quality work

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partiallogic
I concur, very similar experience.

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falcolas
My favorite, even though this has now been buried:

REMOTE is code for "Rube who will accept half the going rate for their
position". If you can't afford to pay at least $150,000 for a "Senior Lead"
position, you aren't going to get a senior lead.

~~~
mooreds
Eh? Depends on the going rate. I bet that there are senior leads in, say,
Fargo ND, or White Horse YT (or other places...) that would be happier with
less than 150k/year.

Now, If you said $60k, I'd agree, though it is possible you could find someone
with senior lead skills in an emerging market who might be happy with this.

~~~
falcolas
The cost of living adjustment is somewhere around 60k between Fargo ND and SF,
and Senior Lead developers frequently offer for over 200k in SF. attempting to
pay a developer less than half of the adjusted salary is a blatant attempt to
take advantage of that developer.

By that same token, if you attempted to pay a senior lead developer only $120
in SF (the salary you suggested such a dev is worth adjusted for the move),
you'd not get a senior or lead developer.

Just because you enjoy the job doesn't mean you shouldn't be appropriately
compensated for doing the job.

~~~
mooreds
I absolutely agree that:

> Just because you enjoy the job doesn't mean you shouldn't be appropriately
> compensated for doing the job.

I am not sure of the exact numbers (haven't been in the market enough lately
to pay close attention) but there is some cost of living difference between SF
and ND (for example), and thus I'd expect to pay developers in different areas
differently even though they have the same skill set. The particular numbers
don't matter, the difference is the essence.

Or am I missing your point? Is your point that a senior lead dev should have a
globalized, singular payscale? That seems like an interesting argument, but
I'm not sure one that is supported by the labor data I've seen.

~~~
falcolas
The $60,000 number above is the cost of living difference. Minus that, if you
want the actual talent, the pay should be similar.

~~~
mooreds
Agreed.

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diffraction
They're probably looking for yahoo-ers.

