
Sony Announces Electric Concept Car - Corrado
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/06/sony-shocks-announces-electric-car/
======
Shivetya
For the most part a technology demonstrator of what they could offer an
established car maker. My take away.

sedans with screens like those for rear seat viewers exist already normally in
the form of luxury variants driven by others. the other use of course is mini
vans and crossovers/suvs where children get access to screens.

yet I am always of the belief most younger people would rather just access
their own device. now if we could borrow from some recent scifi shows the
ability to those swipe and push your content to internal screens would be very
nice.

as to that front panorama screen set up, that might work without a steering
wheel implying entertainment options for everyone as everyone is a passenger.

comparing this all to where Telsa is (TM3 owner), the setup in Tesla works
because for the most part the driver never really needs to interact with the
display. Most setting in modern cars are automatic and simple tasks replicate
to steering wheel controls. Throw in a lot of voice commands; Tesla recently
introduced dozens; and you can minimize taking focus off driving. This Sony
setup appears to not consider that, it wants to be attention grabbing which it
should not be in a car that requires a driver.

~~~
windyaskew
I wonder if there's a way to modify Android Auto/Apple Car Play for passenger
viewing. That way you can use all the applications on your phone but in your
car. Do email in the back of a taxi/airport limo on a big screen or watch a
Youtube video with 1 tap.

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simbas
There's a good chance, knowing Sony, that this car will only be rechargeable
with a special charger port only used by Sony.

~~~
endymi0n
As long as it accepts MemorySticks, I'm fine with it.

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aphextron
This sounds weird at first, but it makes perfect sense. Anyone can make an EV.
It's not hard. What sets them apart is the battery, and Sony knows LiPo
batteries better than almost anyone.

~~~
kec
Is this actually true, or just tech hubris?

It took Tesla 5 years to essentially just swap the powertrain + rebadge a
Lotus Elise, another 5 and millions in investment before their first in house
design.

~~~
aphextron
>It took Tesla 5 years to essentially just swap the powertrain + rebadge a
Lotus Elise, another 5 and millions in investment before their first in house
design.

15 years ago, sure. But EVs are mature tech at this point. Nissan has been
pumping them out at volume for nearly a decade now. Every other manufacturer
now has at least one or two models in development or coming to market. The
only differentiating factor is the ability to produce high quality batteries
in massive volume.

This is why Nissan was so successful with the Leaf. They had their own battery
production facilities in place to provide the volume needed. So far Tesla has
been the only other manufacturer with a similar capability. It's also why the
Europeans are so far behind the Japanese, Koreans, and the US in EV sales.
None of them have their own battery production capacity, and are forced to buy
from Panasonic or LG Chem.

~~~
basch
>The only differentiating factor is the ability to produce high quality
batteries in massive volume.

Software. The differentiating factor is software. Batteries will soon
commoditize. What will make cars unique is how effortless they are to
interface with, and things like suspension tweaks in over the air updates.
Much like the transition from N64 cartridges to DLC, they dont need to sell a
finished product any longer, youre buying into an update stream. Buy from a
vendor you trust to keep iterating in a way you like (increased features or
increased stability.)

~~~
dogma1138
The only difference is that patching a game crashing bug is quite different
than patching a car crashing bug. We have recalls for that reason today and
many of these recalls are due to software errors not necessarily hardware
defects.

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rvz
We all laughed at Apple, 13 years ago as they entered into the smartphone
industry and lo and behold, they created an entire economy out of it. Although
Tesla, Toyota, etc are starting to get in on the electric car craze, now Sony
is starting to test the waters. It would take some form of interesting tech
and magic to get people to dump their cars for electric ones.

Perhaps Samsung will throw their hat in the ring if Apple throws in theirs,
who knows. But I certainly won't buy a car designed by Mr Zuckerberg.

~~~
rebolek
> We all laughed at Apple...

Do you have any data that support that claim? I found (and still do) iPhone
preposterous, but certainly didn't laugh, I knew it would be success with
people with too much money on their hands.

~~~
mandeepj
[https://youtu.be/eywi0h_Y5_U?t=12](https://youtu.be/eywi0h_Y5_U?t=12)

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just_myles
Not a fan of those sprawling dashboards. Drivers are distracted enough.

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travisporter
I really don't get why major automakers are so late to the EV game, and still
do not have a foot in the door. Even this Sony concept car does not have any
major automaker collaborators. Is it just because they are too big to
innovate?

~~~
linuxftw
There's not any money in it. The money is in selling trucks and SUVs, at least
in the states.

I've had a truck for over 13 years. Including purchase price, maintenance and
gasoline, my cost over that period has been $243 per month. That was for a
brand new truck. Even if electricity is free, and I bought a similar sized
truck at today's prices, there's no way I'd come out ahead in an electric. If
you factor in used truck prices of similar vehicles, you're 10's of thousands
ahead financially. I recently paid $4500 for a 200k mileage truck, engine
should last for another 150k before needing a rebuild, and I can get an entire
new engine for $3700 (not including labor). How much are electric trucks going
to cost to re-power?

I've done the math even for commuter cars. It never makes sense to buy
electric when I can get a 40MPG car for 10-15k new. Batteries need to
quadruple in efficiency and be cost competitive, or they're never going to
catch on in the US.

~~~
mymythisisthis
I think cities could use good ebikes. Ones that can plug into the high-speed,
high amp, chargers. Imagine charging an ebike in 3-5minutes and being able to
go 70miles. People in cities would like to have an alternative to public
transit and car ownership.

~~~
linuxftw
I would ride my bike almost everywhere if I didn't have to get on a street to
do so. If there are bike-only roads, I would support this.

I think the future is commuting carts. Small, electric vehicles that aren't on
main roads that can cruise 20-30 mph and hold 1-4 people.

~~~
travisporter
There's actually a city in the US that does this! [https://www.peachtree-
city.org/216/Paths-Golf-Carts](https://www.peachtree-city.org/216/Paths-Golf-
Carts). On my places to visit if I ever make it out there.

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freehunter
Here's a question: would anyone here actually buy a hypothetical Sony car or
an Apple car? Why? What would make you buy an Apple or Sony or Google car
versus one from a more established automaker?

Obviously Sony has said they're not planning on actually _making_ this car,
but if they did... why would you buy it?

~~~
rootusrootus
I think it is safe to say that a number of us are driving Teslas, so there is
your answer.

I would wait for all the safety tests and such, of course, and I would wait a
couple years to let them work some of the kinks out, but I would not rule out
a car from a non-traditional manufacturer just 'because.'

That said, I'm not really expecting to see it happen. Unlike what someone else
said in this thread, making EVs isn't so simple that just anyone can do it.
Regardless of powertrain, a car is a complex machine, and mass-production is
difficult. Someone like Apple certainly has the cash to make a go of it, but
it's well outside their core competency so ... why?

~~~
freehunter
>it's well outside their core competency so ... why?

That's the crux of my question. Tesla is a car company. It's a no-brainer to
buy a car from them. Making cars is what they do, and their entire existence
depends on making good cars. Apple/Sony/Google are not car companies. Making
cars is not what they do, and their existence does not depend on making good
cars.

If everyone waited a couple of years for them to work the kinks out, they
would stop making cars because no one was buying them. _Someone_ has to buy
first, right? But why?

~~~
rootusrootus
> If everyone waited a couple of years for them to work the kinks out, they
> would stop making cars because no one was buying them. Someone has to buy
> first, right? But why?

I imagine some version of Tesla's strategy would need to play out. I don't
think Sony has the brand cachet to make an EV play work, but I absolutely
think Apple does. And to a lesser extent, even Google. Tesla made it a long
ways by relying on enthusiasts who would overlook much just to have the latest
gadget to drive the roads. Apple has a lot of fans as well, they may be just
as forgiving. Though it would be easier for me to see that happening when Jobs
was still around to be a figurehead. Tim Cook is competent, but he is not a
visionary leader.

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mandeepj
Electric car is new the phone. Those who missed the boat earlier - are trying
to catch up with this shot.

~~~
dvh
Except that they not selling it. It's like I was trying to compete with latest
iPhone by publishing renders on my website of my cool new phone concept.

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gnicholas
I wonder if this makes it more likely or less likely that Apple releases a car
someday. On the one hand, this has set a precedent for a consumer tech company
making an EV. On the other hand, perhaps Sony has (exclusive) partnerships
with several of the complementary companies.

~~~
mark-r
Didn't Apple already have a car group that they dropped?

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wyxuan
I think this is the kind of car we will see in the future. Not focused on
driving, but on things like decked out entertainment systems - esp be/c of
things like autopilot.

~~~
Tiktaalik
Great way to ratchet up the pedestrian deaths.

~~~
izzydata
Survival of the fittest. Someday pedestrians will go extinct and only cars
will remain.

~~~
mandeepj
Then those cars would be driving around - who?

~~~
izzydata
Self driving cars implementing the proper solution to the trolley problem.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_RZJUAQY4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_RZJUAQY4)

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beamatronic
I’d like to see an EV where each individual piece is made by an company with
expert core competency in that area. I’ve seen too many videos of water
leaking into Tesla’s.

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jiofih
I want this. Sony is a company with awesome attention to detail, and I bet one
of the few that could match the experience of a Tesla. Sign me up.

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dghughes
People must really hate cars. I like to drive and be in control of the
vehicle. Often I go for drives in the country for a couple of hours. It's not
about speed it's just fun to drive a nice car.

Sure I like EVs but range (for now), lack of control, the sound of them are
many things that ruin the art of driving. Pretty soon mechanical cars will be
like expensive mechanical watches, rare.

~~~
dangus
Cars are transportation appliances. If they weren’t, the most popular cars
wouldn’t be Toyota Highlander or Toyota Camry-style vehicles.

“Drivers cars” are already rarities. Look at yearly sales figures for
something like the Mazda Miata. Look at the overall sales numbers for manual
transmission vehicles. They are not increasing and non-SUV vehicles are dying
out (see Ford and GM).

Cars are an expensive, depreciating liability. That’s why buying a fun car
makes no sense from a financial perspective. An SUV is essentially the type of
car that is least likely to be unusable for a particular task, which is why
(now that the gas mileage is acceptable) it is the most popular form of
vehicle.

If I buy a Miata or even a Camry, one trip to the Home Depot can leave me
wishing I bought a big, slow-ish SUV.

This is a long-winded way of saying that the majority of the public won’t miss
internal combustion engines. Electric cars are quiet and require less
maintenance by far. Battery technology and pricing doesn’t have far to go
before buying a gas car makes no sense.

There will always be enthusiast cars of some kind, for the foreseeable future,
but most people have no business buying them. In my view, any emotional
attachment to them has been curated over decades by car advertisements. Sure,
feeling some G-forces and the wind in your hair is fun, but I can do that at
an amusement park for far less money, too.

~~~
Hamuko
> _If I buy a Miata or even a Camry, one trip to the Home Depot can leave me
> wishing I bought a big, slow-ish SUV._

For what reason?

~~~
dangus
Cargo volume and trunk opening dimensions.

But I also neglected the other reason people like SUVs: driving position and
ease of entry, especially with child seats.

If an SUV is priced equivalently to a car in terms of fuel costs and MSRP,
it’s essentially a better choice for most people.

