
Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls - dangerman
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/10/17/770696476/most-u-s-dairy-cows-are-descended-from-just-2-bulls-thats-not-good
======
vfc1
This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans
can do.

Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing
the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn
and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons
of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else.

I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely unnecessary and with a
tremendous environmental impact.

I hope that the 2020 updated new dietary guidelines will reflect the fact that
dairy is completely optional for a healthy diet even for infants, and even not
recommended for most non-caucasians as they are usually lactose intolerant.

~~~
asdfman123
I've never seen myself as a vegetarian, but increasingly as I get older I
can't deal with the cognitive dissonance of eating meat and my feelings about
individual animals.

I mean, my fiancee and I used to rescue shelter dogs, and I can't square that
behavior of putting through chickens and cows through hell in factory farms.

I still eat meat, but I feel like I'm getting closer to not doing that every
day.

~~~
hitpointdrew
I'm a similar, but opposite boat. Instead of feeling like I am closer to going
vegetarian, I feel myself closer to becoming a hunter. I don't like my meat
coming from poor factory farm practices, and think it would be great if I
could source most of my meat though hunting, and then supplement it with meat
and eggs from local farms. BTW factory farming isn't just isolated to animals,
there are lots of issues with large-scale factory farming crops too.

~~~
vfc1
Actually, most crops (80% of the world crops) are for feeding animals.

Shooting the animals yourself is not a very practical solution, or scalable.
Sure you could do it for yourself and your family at great expense of your
time and even some personal risk, but what about the rest of your city and
country?

That would surely not scale, there is just not enough wild game to hunt, it
can only be done at certain times of the year., etc.

~~~
evandev
I consider it to be practical, enjoyable, and yes non-scalable. But I would
also consider the world going vegetarian as not realistic, and just like some
people go vegetarian to reduce their carbon footprint, I'm going to hunt to
reduce mine.

------
bariumbitmap
One aspect the article does not fully address is why so many dairy farmers are
using artificial insemination instead of bulls. Partly it's slightly enhanced
milk production, but a bigger reason is the availability of sexed semen,
allowing farmers to breed roughly 95% heifer calves instead of 50%. This is a
big deal for a dairy farm's finances because a cow is much more valuable than
a steer.

[https://www.agweb.com/article/how-it-works-sex-sorted-
semen-...](https://www.agweb.com/article/how-it-works-sex-sorted-semen-NAA-
university-news-release)

[https://www.beefmagazine.com/genetics/0601-sexed-semen-
econo...](https://www.beefmagazine.com/genetics/0601-sexed-semen-economic-
sense)

It's also a somewhat controversial practice.

[https://hoards.com/blog-24477-sexed-semen-an-asset-or-a-
prob...](https://hoards.com/blog-24477-sexed-semen-an-asset-or-a-problem.html)

~~~
dbcurtis
Ha. The number 1 reason AI is popular with dairy farmers? Dairy bulls are more
dangerous than you can imagine. Holstein bulls, especially, have a bad, bad,
attitude. 2000 pounds of territorial nastiness. Unrepentant killers. Plus, you
are working with the cows twice a day, so it is easy to tell when they are in
heat.

Contrast with the Aberdeen Angus beef cattle that my father bred. Beef bulls
are, for whatever reason, fairly mellow. I would walk through the bull lot
regularly. Now, I would always keep an eye on the bulls, and calculate how
fast I could run to the fence and jump over, but I never received worse than
the evil eye and a snorting hoof-stamp. A Holstein would have crushed me 3
times over by then. Also, beef cows generally are left to their own devices
out in the pasture, so tracking when they are in heat is challenging making AI
much less practical.

~~~
bariumbitmap
That's a good point. I'd also say that Holstein cows are pretty scary; a cow
can flip from "this human is fine" to "I'm going to protect my calf by
trampling this human to death" with barely any warning.

Factors like floor material also matter. On wet concrete, work boots have
decent traction but bull hooves don't, so a bull with a nose ring is a little
bit less of a threat. On dirt or dry manure, though, watch out.

~~~
Falling3
> "I'm going to protect my calf by trampling this human to death"

Knowing what we do to their calves, I can't say I blame them. They have every
reason to try and protect their calves from us.

------
jedberg
This seems like the kind of thing a functioning USDA would come in and help
fix. The could subsidize losses of farmers who choose genetically diverse
semen and then get cows that underproduce compared to average.

It's like the perfect case of encouraging something that isn't profitable for
the common good.

~~~
pjc50
You'd first have to convince them that this is a problem.

------
ribrars
This is real scary. One genetic flaw exploited by say a virus could wipe out
the entire dairy industry.

~~~
LennyWhiteJr
Wait till you find out that all the world's cash crops are essentially genetic
clones of each other. We're literally one superbug away from global famine.

~~~
baroffoos
I doubt its that dire. There are a lot of things currently that can destroy
crops but they are mostly prevented from spreading by border controls on
things like fruit not being able to cross over.

~~~
liability
You're correct. Rice and corn are almost tied as staple crops. Wheat, potatoes
and bananas trail those two relatively closely. There may be little genetic
diversity inside any particular staple food, but there are nevertheless
several unrelated staple foods that feed the world.

If blight were to wipe out one or two, things would get bad but I'm confident
we'd pull through as a species.

------
PaulRobinson
All US Dairy Cows are descended from the original two cows, and all humans
from the first humans, and on, and on.

It is interesting how selective breeding has played a part in several
industries though. This example sounds a little appalling to my mind, but I'm
a fan of horse racing and all thoroughbreds have to trace their lineage to one
of three horses or they're not considered thoroughbred and I'm fine with that.

What is it that makes some examples unnerving, and some acceptable?

~~~
gowld
That's not true, because species are evolved, not created discretely.

Mitochondrial Adam and Eve are not mates.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve)

------
edotrajan
Jallikattu protest on 2017 relating to bull breeding in Tamilnadu, India.

Selected Excerpt from Wikipedia Below

Jallikattu is cited as one of the last available ways to promote and preserve
the native livestock because the other uses of native breeds such as
ploughing, breeding via mating and milk is on decline due to advancement in
mechanization by tractors, improvement in artificial insemination and hybrid
Jersey cows respectively. Karthikeyan Siva Senaapathy, a native breed
activist, has said in an interview with the BBC that "[Tamil Nadu] had over
one million Kangayam bulls in 1990. The population has fallen to 15,000 now."
Minor protests were initiated by cattle rights activists and farmers such as
Karthikeya Sivasenapathy who has appeared multiple times on the STAR Vijay
talk show Neeya Naana. Music videos, such as "Takkaru Takkaru" by Hiphop
Tamizha, and on Facebook videos to talk about jallikattu and its benefits
inspired the protestors. Sivasenapathy has claimed that the indigenous cattle
bulls are critically endangered in Tamil Nadu and banning jallikattu will have
the adverse effect of wiping them out completely. According to Sivasenapthy
and other pro-jallikattu activists, jallikattu is not just a sport that is
deeply entrenched in Tamil culture, but it has also inadvertently served as a
scientific method of breeding cattle.[clarification needed] This view is held
among a majority of jallikattu supporters. The protest is aimed at revival of
the native humped bull, called the zebu. The Tamil Nadu breed of zebu is
unique to India and has several advantages compared to European varieties of
cattle such as the Holstein cow. The native breeds are rich in the A2 variety
of beta casein protein which aides easy digestion whereas milk from European
Bos taurus contain the A1 variant of the beta casein protein which is related
to allergies and some serious health conditions.The Holstein breeds found
their way into India as a result of Operation Flood of late 1960's through
cross breeding to increase the low milk yield of native breeds. As the Jersey
cow can yield nine times the quantity of milk as a zebu in the same period,
there is concern among protesters that without jallikattu providing an
economic incentive for the breeding of zebu, the breed will become endangered
and eventually extinct.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_pro-
jallikattu_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_pro-
jallikattu_protests)

------
dsalzman
I knew the agriculture industry was at risk due to monocultures (e.g. the
banana) but I didn’t know the dairy industry was too! There’s a trade off
between resiliency and performance/standardization.

~~~
Aperocky
Tbh, this is a little statistical misnomer. There’s a high probability that
over half of us is a direct descendent of a single Roman citizen, and I
remember a report that a significant proportion of Asian population can trace
through one of lines to Genghis Khan.

This is simply because you have 2 parents, 4 grandparents and 8 ggp and so on.
Eventually this exponential growth lead to a size greater than the world
population. 30 generation would mean more than 1 billion ancestors, and a lot
of that would intersect, while the chance of having a certain individual be
part of your ancestry greatly increases.

------
classxteve
This guy who said "don't stop drinking milk because some random person on the
internet said so". Dude, really need to get with common sense. Research can
and is skewed everyday. You want research? Go to the factory farms where these
animals suffer and die each day so you can have your milk and yogurt and whey
protein trash. Don't rely on someone to spoon feed you. This is corporate
manipulation at Amazon scale. Get with the program, cows milk is for calves,
not humans.

~~~
bluGill
I have gone to those farms. Cows die nearly everyday because there are 3000 of
them on the farm and their lifespan is 5-7 years, so the numbers work out that
way (in the wild it would be less). Otherwise they live in clean barns that
are not too hot, have plenty of food and otherwise have an easy life. Boring
perhaps, but it isn't cruel despite what you might be manipulated into
thinking.

~~~
Falling3
Cows absolutely do not have a lifespan of 5-7 years. Wild cattle easily live
20+ years; same for cared for domesticated species. I've been to these farms
to, and I've personally cared for animals that have escaped. For many of them
it really is a horrific life. Please don't accuse others of having been
manipulated into their beliefs, especially when your claims on the subject are
so inaccurate.

~~~
bluGill
They can live 20+ years. However they typically will not: the wild is a harsh
place, 5-7 years is an accurate mode.

You are trying to let your bias manipulate others yourself.

------
daveslash
What _really_ caught me off-guard in the _I didn 't see that coming_ sort of
way was that someone named their Bull " _Round Oak Rag Apple Elevation_ " \--
that strikes me as an oddly long and specific name. Everything else is,
perhaps, bothersome, but not terribly " _surprise!_ ".

~~~
RcouF1uZ4gsC
From his Wikipedia page:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RORA_Elevation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RORA_Elevation)

It seems like Elevation was one of his dad’s names, and Round Oak was part of
his mom’s name.

~~~
zik
Bulls have wikipedia pages now? Ok, this is the thing I'm most surprised about
out of all of this.

Maybe I'm just annoyed that there's a bull who's more famous than me, and that
he got that famous by being a lot more reproductively successful than me.

~~~
dboreham
My cat had a web page in 1996. So old it isn't in the archive :(

------
anewguy9000
as you go back in time, the tree of ancestors shrinks, so ultimately all cows
in the world are descended from 2 cows, are they not?

~~~
mirimir
It's not that simple. If you look back far enough, "cows" are descended from
perhaps multiple species of "not really cows, yet". And the same is true for
all of those species.

So you never get back to two of any one species.

~~~
adrianN
Well, there is this
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve)

------
momentmaker
The newest South Park episode talked about this. An irony of Incredible Meat
mixed it.

~~~
tracker1
Have absolutely been loving this show for the past few years now. I think it's
far more entertaining today than when it started even.

------
Grue3
That's nothing. _All_ dairy cows have descended from one bull. That's how
evolution (and its artificial counterpart, selective breeding) works.

------
jjri
Imagine if the header said "Most Humans Are Descended From Just Two Apes"

------
blumomo
That reminds me of the "Adam & Eve" story.

------
throwaway66920
Is this the same for pigs and possible related to African swine flu
difficulties?

------
pete_b
echo Hacker News | sed s/Hacker/Speciation/

Not that I mind, quite enjoying these articles.

------
michannne
I find it ironic that in an article about how most of this segment of species
is a child of 2 bulls, the main scientist is named "Chad"

~~~
war1025
I don't get it?

~~~
sunsetMurk
not sure what michannne means but typically being referred to as "A Chad"...
is not a nice thing.

[https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chad](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chad)

~~~
tasogare
It’s not that definition. Chad is the memey name of the archetype of the good
looking buff guy who pick and sleep with girls really easily (before dumping
them).

------
fortran77
How do two bulls have a daughter? Did they adopt, or use a surrogate?

~~~
cbhl
The two bulls didn't have a child together; it's more like the family trees go
up (through n generations) up to one of two award-winning males.

This is like saying 1 in X men are descended from Genghis Khan...

~~~
gberger
What about the Avengers, though?

------
alexnewman
I'm starting to hear these types of things so much that I'm becoming skeptical

~~~
akie
Why? Most of this seems to be documented, no reason to be skeptical if you can
just trace back the lineages...

~~~
alexnewman
It's like when we had to adjust all the carbon datings because techniques
changed. I just don't trust everyone always coming from a handfull of people.
You'd expect to see it happen in both directions.

------
craftyguy
This basically means that US beef industry is 1 disease away from being
obliterated. Genetic diversity is still a requirement for the survival of a
species.

~~~
mc32
For beef they don’t use milk cows (dairy cows) they use beef cattle such as
angus and herford. Also there are other dairy cows like guernsey, jersey, etc.

~~~
teh_klev
That isn't strictly true (not in the UK anyway). I was out for a beer tonight
and serendipitously bumped into the secretary for the Aberdeen Angus Cattle
Society[0] and proceeded to have a discussion about the Society, cattle, beef
production etc.

You'd (and I was) be surprised to know that Aberdeen Angus sires impregnate
dairy cattle for offspring that end up as prime steak. And this isn't just for
burgers, it's for premium supermarket cuts such as fillets.

Also (in the UK anyway), most beef that is labelled as Aberdeen Angus only
need to be 50% Angus (i.e. be sired from an AA bull)...check the small print
on the packaging. It's actually rarer (pardon the pun) to see 100% Angus
steaks on the shelves (say as cuts of fillets or sirloin) because their muscle
structure is somewhat less appealing to consumers.

Anyway, he's still in the village at the moment and can ask any questions
anyone has tomorrow.

[0]: [https://www.aberdeen-angus.co.uk/](https://www.aberdeen-angus.co.uk/)

~~~
arethuza
I was in Spain recently (in the Picos de Europa) and had probably the best
steak I've ever had - from an Asturian Mountain beastie - we had seen (and
heard) a lot of them walking in the Picos:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturian_Mountain_cattle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturian_Mountain_cattle)

~~~
teh_klev
_checks to see if Aden Films[0] has tried one of these_ ...but sadly not yet.

What cut did you have?

[0]:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu9g5OmzcCpcJnmSYyHnIVw/vid...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu9g5OmzcCpcJnmSYyHnIVw/videos)

