
A Landmark Rat Study on the Origins of Alcoholism - sohkamyung
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/06/a-landmark-study-in-the-origins-of-alcoholism/563372/?single_page=true
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acjohnson55
There have been times in my life when I felt I had an unhealthy relationship
with alcohol. For me, it's the hazard of "n beers feels great, so n+1 must
feel better", culminating in a worse hangover than necessary.

But when I read about the experience of what I might think of as true
alcoholics, it puts in perspective how powerful that disease is. It's
incomprehensible to me to drink straight through immediately apparent negative
consequences.

~~~
FPGAhacker
The n+1 problem stems from the issue that the euphoria from alcohol is
strongest while bac is rising. When it’s static, there isn’t much euphoric
effect.

The euphoria is mitigated by actual drunkenness, so the best euphoria is while
absorbing the first beer, less with each one. But once the absorption of a
beer is complete, you just have the remainder effects of alcohol without the
euphoria.

~~~
jackvalentine
Do you know where I can read more? How does the rate of rise play in to the
euphoria?

(A very odd couple of weekends figuring out an optimal dosing schedule
awaits...)

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cup-of-tea
I consider myself very lucky that I'm not an alcoholic. I used to drink quite
a lot. Every day at one point. That is enough for some people to become
alcoholic.

Consider that if I was using cocaine I would be expected to have been fully
aware that what I was doing was harmful. But drinking every day is considered
completely normal and nobody would question your usage.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Ahem. Not among the folks I mix with. That would be recognized instantly as a
problem.

I guess the real problem is, alcoholics tend to mix with other alcoholics.
Makes their life seem normal? I read that 50% of the business of liquor stores
is by 10% of their customers. Definitely some modal populations going on.

~~~
cup-of-tea
> That would be recognized instantly as a problem.

Really? I didn't _get drunk_ every day. I just drank a beer every day. I
really don't think anybody would consider that a problem.

~~~
rleigh
It depends on the person. If you're not dependent upon it and you can
immediately give it up without ill effects, then it's not much of a problem.
What makes this article and paper so interesting is that there's a real
physical and mechanistic basis for why some people can handle it, and why
others can't, which makes a lot of sense. The experimental design to model
addictive behaviours looks clean, simple and elegant and with it identifying
similar population subsets to humans, maybe we'll eventually see some genetic,
epigenetic or developmental basis for that difference be elucidated.

I'm unfortunate to have known two people who became alcoholics, and it was
incredibly sad and frustrating to see their irrational, self-destructive
behaviour ruin both their health and their relationships. I do hope that this
will lead to effective treatments for alcoholism, and perhaps other addictive
behaviours which involve the same underlying mechanisms. It looks like the
current drugs aren't that effective, but now that we know which areas and
pathways to target things might proceed much faster.

~~~
cup-of-tea
> It depends on the person. If you're not dependent upon it and you can
> immediately give it up without ill effects, then it's not much of a problem.

But that's the problem. How do you know? I seriously doubt anyone here would
try to intervene if they discovered a friend had a beer every day. Yet that
could easily be the beginning of a problem.

~~~
rleigh
It's very difficult, for certain. As is clear from this thread, "normal"
levels of drinking can vary wildly between people and social groups. For the
two people I know, it wasn't an overnight thing. They were already fairly
regular drinkers, and at some point it got out of control, either by some
triggering incident or something else.

One thing I'm grateful for is that because alcohol affects me greatly I'm
careful to never drink more than three pints when I go out with friends;
usually one is more than enough. And after seeing the horrible effects of
alcoholism, I made a conscious effort to reduce the frequency from a few times
a week to a few times a month, and feel a whole lot better for it.

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incadenza
I'm glad to see work being done here. Recovery rates from Alcoholism are grim
by every measure I've seen. There have been similar breakdowns with Monkeys
consuming alcohol as well, if I remember correctly. With 15% preferring
alcohol to sugary drinks, and roughly 5% becoming highly problematic
consumers.

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user68858788
Are there any studies on self destructive behavior that have a useful
conclusion? All addicts I know are aware of the damage they do, yet I haven't
seen studies about this kind of behavior.

~~~
allenz
Here's the NIH overview of addiction treatment, summarizing thousands of
studies:

[https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/principles-drug-
addic...](https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/principles-drug-addiction-
treatment/evidence-based-approaches-to-drug-addiction-treatment/behavioral-
therapies)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3678283/#S14](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3678283/#S14)

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dmckeon
The proposed chemical mechanism sounds similar to the pattern that led to
SSRIs - selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors - in that the brain normally
has a balance of counter-acting chemicals, but problems arise when the balance
or counter-action fails.

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oceanghost
When the rat's heartless wife leaves him after 10 years of supporting her...
takes their toddler... Condemning them both to financial ruin - and the rat
doesn't want a drink. I'll believe they've cured alcoholism.

