

Tony Hsieh's new $350 million startup - brownday
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/01/23/tony-hsieh-las-vegas-zappos/

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rdl
I'd be really interested in doing a tech startup (well, moving one) to Las
Vegas -- aside from a stupid Clark County registration law, and the risk of
financial/social problems due to so many foreclosures, it would be great. Good
infrastructure, cheap flights, super cheap housing (sign me up for a 4500 sf
McMansion for $300k...), etc. Easy to get people to visit for a few weeks at a
time, easy to get hotels, generally low cost of living, and 24h everything,
subsidized by old people and stupid people who can't do math.

Everyone at my startup is into firearms, so we'd far prefer Nevada to
California. Clark County's handgun registration law is the main reason we
haven't bought a place there already.

Schools suck, but that's not personally an issue, and I'm sure a 100+ person
company with ~10 students could figure out a solution for employees.

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itmag
_Everyone at my startup is into firearms, so we'd far prefer Nevada to
California. Clark County's handgun registration law is the main reason we
haven't bought a place there already._

Wow, you sound like a cool outfit. Mind telling me more? :)

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arkitaip
And here's why I think Tony Hsieh is the next, better Steve Jobs that
understands business, people and community like no other leader today. Why
better? Because the man radiates a genuine compassion towards others that Jobs
never had. If any other business leader had announced such a visionary idea I
would have been incredibly skeptical, but I have total confidence in Hsieh and
find his vision inspiring and quite convincing.

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Gorbzel
Your excitement about what Haieh is doing is awesome, but what does it have to
do with Jobs? One of the biggest annoyances I have with the tech press is
their tendency to throw Apple/Jobs into any article, no matter how unrelated.
I'm gonna have to call your comment out for the same thing.

I'm excited about it too, but the men had completely different approaches for
different industries and, while I'm trying to stay neutral on the issue, Hsieh
has quite a ways to go before he's anywhere near as revolutionary as Jobs.
Comparing the two is an unnecessary distraction which doesn't really serve any
purpose.

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arkitaip
Both are massively successful business leaders in IT both with different
interpersonal approaches. I think comparing their managerial styles is
interesting important, especially if startup try to emulate them.

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philwelch
Jobs was a consumer electronics tycoon with an obsession for design and
product; Hsieh is a touchy-feely retail tycoon with an obsession for customer
service and company culture. They're about as different as two founders can
get.

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marcamillion
Sounds like he is trying to build Silicon Valley in Vegas.

Reminds me of this PG essay: <http://www.paulgraham.com/maybe.html>

Or this one: <http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html>

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latj
Well, warm weather, no state income tax, cheaper real estate but still close
to CA... if only it wasnt Vegas. :>

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praxxis
As a current resident of Vegas, "warm" might be understating summer
temperatures a little :) Everything is air conditioned (and there are 24 hour
air conditioning maintenance companies!) so you'll be inside most of the time.

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charlesju
I love this idea, but I couldn't help but think of Foxconn City and that one
Simpsons episode where Homer moves into a great new job with a supporting city
run by an evil genius.

<http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2010/11/thomas-lee-foxconn/>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Only_Move_Twice>

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cwe
If he turns into Hank Scorpio, sign me up! In all seriousness, though, I think
this could turn out like the SLU neighborhood here in Seattle. Paul Allen
bought all the land and turned it into a major biotech hub, and now Amazon,
tech stars, and others are taking it over.

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potatolicious
Unless things have dramatically changed in the last 6 months since I left
Seattle, SLU is still kind of a failure.

The big vanity streetcar Paul Allen wanted got built, and is still as useless
as ever. He wanted "mass transit" in his neighborhood, but it's neither
frequent enough, nor fast enough, to really make a difference. SLU remains as
isolated from the rest of Seattle as ever, except now a lot of people are
_forced_ to make the commute (try asking a east side resident how they like
their commute).

Some condos got built, but the area is still largely undeveloped, and it
doesn't seem like there's a lot of residential development going on.
Commercial tenants are moving in, but the residents aren't following.

Ditto, residential-support businesses (restaurants, coffee shops, corner
stores, etc) simply haven't arrived at all. The neighborhood _still_ shuts
down after work, barring a select number of expensive bistros. I've heard
through the grapevine that Vulcan is being _extremely_ selective about their
retail tenants - and anything that's not archetypically urban-chic (and
expensive) need not apply.

It's like Belltown, except less organic, more artificially high-end, without
_any_ trace of nightlife, and _way_ more boring. This is fine if Paul Allen
imagined SLU as an office-park neighborhood, but that's not Vulcan's vision.
Overall, I'd consider SLU to be the most sterile and soulless neighborhood on
that side of the lake.

~~~
cwe
Yes, you're largely correct in that description. Hopefully Hsieh does a better
job in Vegas.

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iamdann
How far is too far for building a culture of "fun with a little bit of
weirdness?"

I find Zappos dedication to fun weirdness to be a little much to begin with.
But now buying land surrounding your call-center with plans to build an entire
city for employees to live/work/play in? And "dorms" to live in? That's a lot.

I'm all for free jet flights ([http://www.launch.is/blog/leak-zappos-ceo-
gives-employees-fr...](http://www.launch.is/blog/leak-zappos-ceo-gives-
employees-free-private-jet-service.html)) but this is a bit much for me. Guess
that's why I don't work there.

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paulhauggis
I like to separate my work and life (especially when working for someone else)
and I don't think I would like to live in a company owned building.

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smhinsey
It's not really clear that this is actually a new startup, but regardless of
that, investing in Las Vegas real estate strikes me as an extremely bold move.

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mason55
Seems to me that he's investing in Zappos. That investment just happens to
come in the form of buying real estate in Las Vegas.

I wonder what the monetary difference is between building up Vegas and
building their own campus. If you accept the fact that you need a decent
campus to attract top talent then your investment only needs to make up the
difference between the cost of building your own. Throw in the fact that it's
more attractive to have your campus downtown than out in the sticks of
Henderson and you're really not looking at needing to make up a ton of money.
Even if you end up losing a little bit of money you could very well come out
ahead.

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arkitaip
As the article says, Hsieh is after the synergistic effects that you get with
melting pots; things that manifest themselves in a chaotic, cross breeding,
art meets science meets business meets community world that you rarely find on
a corporate campus.

~~~
mason55
Yup. People who think he's investing in this as real estate are totally
missing the big picture.

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twelvechairs
As a practicing urban designer, this strikes me as a great piece of investing
if done right. These plans will take years or even decades to come to fruition
(a big horizon for most tech people), but I am sure he will end up a real
estate tycoon at the end of it. Commit a significantly run down area to a
vision, and there is huge money to be made, as well as (potential) benefits
for the general public....

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enjo
Surely $350M doesn't even get them started tho? Particularly with new high-
density residential construction...

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gavanwoolery
$200 million of it will go towards land purchase and residential development.

Since when did real estate speculation become a "startup?"

And he wants to develop more residential areas in the city with the highest
foreclosure rate in the US? And among the cities with the most empty houses.

I hate to be critical, but...this seems like a bad idea. $350 million is also
probably not enough money to create significant impact - to do anything on the
scale of a neighborhood or borough, you are talking a multibillion dollar
project.

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brianbreslin
Interesting. Building a community of tech startups is probably key to feeding
more talent to zappos longterm too. He can also fund companies that solve some
of zappos key problems and have them close at hand.

I'd be very excited to see a follow up to this every 6 months to see how
things are coming along. Rebuilding a city is tough

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MattGrommes
I wonder how many startups will actually get work done that close to the
Strip? Seems like a major source of distractions.

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dirkdeman
Downtown is not the Strip, it's a mile or so north from the northernmost part
of the Strip. Downtown has a more funky, 70's era-somewhat gritty vibe to it.
More Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas than The Hangover, if you will. A good
vibe, though, with plenty of distractions of its own I guess.

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ww520
Have they acquired all the surrounding lands yet? If not, announcing this
expansion plan might push up the price.

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AtTheLast
It will be exciting to see how this works out. Hsieh seems to really
understand people and their motivations. He's the perfect person to try an
pull something like this off.

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naner
If you build it, they will come? I hope so. This seems like a very risky
venture.

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latj
Well, at the very least, the people who work for him will come- and thats
hundreds of well paid, educated white/asian young people. That's a pretty good
start.

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vaksel
seems like 350 million is a drop in the bucket for something like that

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latj
I dunno- I think all you have to do is improve schools honestly. Young parents
in America are starving for good education. For example, you could start
really good charter schools that only allow residents from the area. The trick
is making money off of the whole deal. I think that's where the investment in
commercial and residential space comes in.

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nlz1
Didn't click the link, but I hope it doesn't have anything to do with Internet
security (zing!).

