
Sonic Devices Play High-Pitched Noises to Repel Teens - tomcam
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/10/739908153/can-you-hear-it-sonic-devices-play-high-pitched-noises-to-repel-teens
======
theBobBob
I am always so surprised and appalled that these things are still legal. Can
you imagine the reaction if they were designed to only hurt pretty much any
other demographic other than young people?

~~~
w45yq3a
It’s fundamentally an attack on public space and should be illegal. I’m
sitting in a small public parkette right now within earshot of an
establishment that has one of these things running 24/7\. I don’t even know
which one as I can’t locate the precise source of the sound. It emits a high
pitched whining noise for about 5 seconds, at which point the frequency
rapidly increases until it ends in a zap, followed by about 2 seconds of
silence. This differential makes it impossible to ignore. It even permeates
headphones. I like eating lunch here, as it’s close to my office and a nice
space, but I often leave irrationally angry after being unable to relax in the
midst of this omnipresent noise.

Sadly there doesn’t seem to be anything I can do about it.

~~~
londons_explore
They are easy to locate. The sound can't pass through your hand and doesn't
diffract much, so move your hand around at arms length till you can't hear it
anymore in one ear, and that's the direction it's in.

Normally they're metal boxes with a grille on the front mounted above head
height (because otherwise some teen would put gum in the grille to stop the
sound getting out)

------
justusw
I keep hearing similar high pitched sounds in Tokyo in front of some stores as
well, so the statement that only people up to 25 years old can hear it sounds
incorrect.

The Mosquito youth repellent has even won an Ig Nobel prize:
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/06/science.higheredu...](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/06/science.highereducation)

I think this fits the general trend of making urban architecture more and more
hostile to the public.

~~~
CamJN
Ultrasonic jewelry cleaning baths, these sonic youth deterrents, and a few
other super high pitched sounds give me instant splitting headaches and I'm
28. Strangely I have terrible hearing otherwise and have to ask people to
repeat themselves a lot.

~~~
projct
I was in a similar position for years and got a hearing test. Turns out I have
a sensory processing disorder that I got help for.

------
odensc
As part of the affected age group, it sounds a lot like the high-frequency
sound of a CRT monitor / old arcade machine (that older people cannot hear
apparently), which is very much not pleasing. I can't imagine having to deal
with that all night long.

~~~
jjeaff
When I was younger, I thought for sure I had a sixth sense for detecting when
the TV was on. Strangely, it didn't really seem like a sound to me. More like
something inside your head.

Unfortunately, my super power didn't pan out to be all that unique ... or
useful.

~~~
DougN7
I had the same super power! (And between you and me, I can also time travel,
but only in a forward direction one second at a time).

~~~
tehlike
And the longer you wait in the time tube, the further you go.

------
jmpman
These have been around for quite some time. I remember encountering them in
Japan about 13 years ago. It was in a fancy store in Tokyo, next to the
Palace. As soon as I entered, my 30 year old ears alerted me that they hadn’t
died off at 25 as planned. The one clerk in the store couldn’t turn it off and
apologized profusely. I decided to have fun, and in my broken Japanese,
accused her of having a device to ward off gaijin. She denied it profusely as
I walked out, laughing... on to the next store.

------
Robotbeat
Part of the reason they installed these devices is in part to reduce
vandalism, but I can’t imagine any better motivation for vandalism than an
extremely annoying sound coupled with moral justification provided by clear
discrimination. They’re just asking for these devices to be destroyed.

------
squarefoot
I can understand the motivation, legality aside, but the implementation seems
irresponsible to me. A device like that will very likely annoy, if not anger,
dogs at distance. My old cats could hear two rooms away a 40 KHz signal played
by a piezo transducer directly connected to a function generator with no
amplification in between. An old ultrasound TV remote had the same effect. And
cats hearing although better than ours is less sensitive than dogs'. I can't
imagine what level of discomfort that device could put on cats, dogs, bats and
other animals.

------
socceroos
In Australia they play classical music through the sound system at train
stations which has seen success in dissuading teens from congregating there.

~~~
northwest65
Apparently the kids aren't into ol' Bazza...
[http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/268922/Britain-looks-at-
Mani...](http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/268922/Britain-looks-at-Manilow-
method-for-teens)

------
Lowkeyloki
I seem to remember this effect being co-opted by teens to turn the tables. Use
it as a text notification sound on your phone and you can text back and forth
in class without alerting the teacher.

------
SN76477
Such a backwards way of thinking. The youth want to be in plain sight so they
can be watched but we push them away.

Behind closed doors is where people die from drugs and where teen pregnancy
happens, it doesn’t happen hanging out on the street corner.

------
inflatableDodo
These need to be hacked to play high pitched techno that only teenagers can
hear.

~~~
Crosseye_Jack
They don’t have the range to be that detailed. But there was a fad where teens
would use the tone on their phones.

------
devoply
First they came for the mosquito... but I was not a mosquito... then they came
for the rats... but then i was not a rat... then they came for the teens...
but i was too old to be a teen...

------
pontifier
We need more places in our society for people to exist free of charge.

------
bobbiechen
Reminds me of how Zoom Rooms play ultrasound to automagically pair your
computer to the room [1].

For a while I thought I was going crazy hearing this incredibly high-pitched,
faint chirping in meeting rooms when no one else could (I have weirdly good
high-frequency hearing). There's probably a solid limit to how far into
inaudible ultrasound Zoom can push this sound, though, considering that
computer microphones are designed to pick up things that people can hear.

[1] [https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-
us/articles/214629303-Direct-S...](https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-
us/articles/214629303-Direct-Share-with-Zoom-Rooms)

------
tyingq
Guessing not long before someone fills that thing with expanding/hardening
spray foam.

I don't understand how it's even legal. Certainly the sound carries beyond the
boundary of the park.

------
craftinator
I fully intend to break these devices if I ever hear them. I'm over the age of
30, and can hear them quite clearly; it violates my right to be in public
spaces. Even if the device is installed in privately owned property, it's not
like the sound waves magically stop at the end of that property. Regardless of
the law, the use of these devices within hearing of public space is against
the public good, and they should be destroyed if heard.

------
tomcam
One of the joys of aging to me is being immune to these noises while still
enjoying music to the fullest. When I was young it was often agony going into
stores that had alarm systems employing these high-pitched hums. Neither of my
girlfriend nor her family, with whom we spent a great deal of time, could hear
them. They were patient but bemused at my reaction.

~~~
jjeaff
Were these some sort of deterrent? Or just an inadvertent hum from electronics
that were designed and QA'd by people who couldn't hear it?

~~~
tomcam
I believe it was a side effect of the alarm’s circuitry. No one ever gave me a
sensible explanation.

------
DougN7
When I was a kid the local 7-Eleven installed outside lights that made your
skin have a slight greenish hue and which made acne stand out. Great way to
get rid of loitering teens without any harm.

------
whytaka
I wonder if these things have any causal effects for developing tinnitus.

------
m463
I'm assuming a hearing loss lawsuit (in the US) could fix this.

------
q_queue
This confused me for a second. "Why is my ISP playing high-pitched noises?
Surely it is not their core competency."

------
hn23
I am way over their age but can hear it. WTF.

~~~
russh
I'm 53 and can still hear and feel 17KHz. I truly dislike these devices.

------
beenBoutIT
Wouldn't earplugs negate this?

~~~
IronBacon
In my experience earplugs/headphones are real effective for low frequencies
but somewhat less for high pitched sounds.

Thinking about it, it's probably related to the material used for the plugs, I
think I've only used foam type earplugs...

------
astura
Implied at the start of the article but not mentioned until halfway down: they
are only operational from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.

What hours are these parks open to the public?

~~~
odensc
The playground mentioned in the article doesn't seem to have any hours posted
online. But if the sound propagates outside the boundary of the park,

> [...] said she can hear the Mosquito installed a few blocks from her
> Fishtown home

I'd imagine it'd be disturbing even when the park is closed to the public.

