
RIP Bill Zeller - joshfraser
http://metatalk.metafilter.com/20205/RIP-Bill-Zeller
======
edw519
Many thoughts that flashed through my mind as I read the suicide note, but I
decided to file them all away and share only this old story:

The old town drunk died. His two sons, the bank president and the new town
drunk were at his funeral. An onlooker, surprised at how different the two
sons were, asked each one how he turned out the way he did.

The bank president responded, "With a father like that, how else could I turn
out?"

The new town drunk responded, "With a father like that, how else could I turn
out?"

FWIW, I am like the bank president. I have no idea why. All I know is that no
matter whatever anyone ever did to me, it didn't matter. I have no idea if
someone who turned out like the new town drunk can change (although I imagine
it happens all the time). All I do know is that _it is possible_ for a victim
to succeed and overcome all of his "darkness".

If anyone has any history remotely close to OP's and is entertaining similar
thoughts, feel free to contact me off-line. I will tell you right now what
I'll respond with: absolutely nothing. Because I don't know what to tell you.
I don't know how to become successful after being abused. But I do know that
it's possible; I am living proof. Sometimes, just knowing that something is
possible is enough to pursue it until you get it.

I'm truly sorry that OP's story ended like it did. Especially sorry because I
know it could have been different. I just don't know how. Now no one will.

~~~
TheSOB88
An interesting note: filing your feelings away is what caused this whole
thing. Of course, the ones you're filing away may not be as painful for you,
but still.

~~~
Retric
I think repression is an area where people use the same words to talk about
different things. Which is why I try and separating things as _Successful
repression_ which is used by most people on a regular basis and can be
extremely helpful. However, "Whenever I think about what happened I feel manic
and itchy and can't concentrate on anything else." suggests that the pain was
not repressed just _ignored_ which does not really deal with the problem.

Don't get me wrong _ignoring_ things is also a useful technique for short term
pain. However, it's best used for things like planing the funeral etc and if
you are still using it after a few years it's really time to try something
else / seek help.

------
BigZaphod
A note of caution: If you choose to read the actual suicide note as I did, be
prepared for a rather intense emotional trip. I don't mean to say that to
dissuade anyone from reading it, but just that... I was not expecting what I
ended up reading and it really made me sit back and, I dunno, just be sad for
awhile. Such a shame.

~~~
noname123
I for one, thought that it was quite positive thing and I respect his decision
to take his own life. It was very well thought-out suicide note; I think most
people are quite baffled by it because of the degree of author's rational
explanations, extreme honesty and empathy for others in spite of his own
pains.

Also, he unintentionally perhaps shed light on programming which a lot of us
could relate to,

 _At times growing up I would feel inconsolable rage, but I never connected
this to what happened until puberty. I was able to keep the darkness at bay
for a few hours at a time by doing things that required intense concentration,
but it would always come back. Programming appealed to me for this reason._

 _I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or
lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created
programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New
York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some
peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent
in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way
fulfilling._

Like Bill Zeller, I retreated into programming at an early age to right a
wrong and while programming is a lot of fun; I hid behind a screen to escape
personal problems that I thought that the coding marathon high, money &
prestige would solve. And the more fun programming got, the worse the issues
got and the more I dived into my rabbit-hole.

This is not to take away anything from Bill Zeller; he is an incredible brave
man alive and dead. Anyone who went to Trinity knows that it's a very hostile
environment for coming out. The fact that he kept coding software then and
beyond and kept a completely normal pretense is incredible to me. And I want
to thank him for his iTunes ripping software, his inspiration to me when I was
at undergrad and his brutal honesty in his suicide note.

~~~
lwhi
_I for one, thought that it was quite positive thing and I respect his
decision to take his own life._

I disagree. Maybe it's possible to understand some of what he felt from his
eloquent explanation, but I don't think suicide is ever the only solution.

There will be other people reading this, who will be in similar situations. It
fills me with so much sadness to think that there might be one who reads this
and thinks .. 'yep, that was the right thing to do'.

There isn't anything brave about taking your own life.

~~~
haberman
> I don't think suicide is ever the only solution.

What do you base this on? Wishful thinking about the capability of modern
medicine? Or a belief that it's a person's duty to live through intolerable
pain for the sake of others?

> It fills me with so much sadness to think that there might be one who reads
> this and thinks .. 'yep, that was the right thing to do'.

It annoys me that so many people will take a person who finally found peace
from a life of intolerable pain, and have no thought but 'I would prefer they
hadn't done that, to satisfy my abstract beliefs about right and wrong.'

I think the whole thing is very sad, but I feel very gratified to know that he
is free of his demons forever.

~~~
rdtsc
> What do you base this on? Wishful thinking about the capability of modern
> medicine?

It could be a personal belief, just like your belief that "he is free of this
demons forever" or the fact that he somehow "found peace". I don't see
anything wrong with someone believing that suicide is never a good solution.

> It annoys me that so many people will take a person who finally found peace
> from a life of intolerable pain.

There is something about that statement that is bothering me and again, it is
just probably because it clashes against my belief on life, death, etc.
matters (so don't take this as a valid reasonable disagreement, just another
point of view). The idea that somehow "he" is better now. I emphasize "he"
because somehow it implies his continued existence, and that is quite strange.
What if "he" doesn't exist anymore so there is nobody to feel at peace?

Does that mean that I would have preferred for him to still be alive and be
suffering? Would have that been a better way? I don't think so either, so I am
just another confused person.

I guess the best scenario would have been been if he sent out what he sent out
but he _didn't actually kill himself_.

Perhaps naively, I believe that would have helped him, it would have let
others know about his problem, and others , maybe even strangers like us,
discussing his actions here, could have shared our stories or tried to do
something to help.

~~~
haberman
I perceive the earnestness in your remarks, and I appreciate that. I mistook
your earlier comments as more judgmental than they actually were. Sorry about
that.

When I was in college a girl who was a close friend of a close friend killed
herself, and I remember experiencing the same kinds of regrets that you are
expressing. Wasn't there anything else she could have done? Didn't she know
how much people cared about her?

Since then I've experienced things that have given me a different perspective,
namely how a person's mind can be a prison of pain that all the external love
in the world is a weak opponent against. I feel like Bill captured that when
he described how even a relationship with a wonderful person whom he liked
very much was sabotaged by his "darkness."

Maybe there is a drug that could have given Bill peace in life, but reading
his note I feel almost certain that nothing anyone could say or do would have
soothed his torment.

------
yogipatel
Wow.

Having grown up abused by my own parents (in all ways except sexually), I
identify with a lot of what he says. I used to think of suicide daily, now I
just think of death. Counseling (sans drugs) is what helped me get there. It's
good and bad now, but there's a positive trend.

I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with counseling
professionals (though he does use the word doctor, so "counselor" might not be
totally accurate). My counselor's office is where I most feel like myself,
it's where I feel safe. If only Bill had a situation like that, he might still
be here today.

I didn't know the guy personally, but I've read stories like this before, and
one thing that stands out to me is how amazing some people that have been
through trauma like this are. He went through all the hell that he did, dealt
with it on a daily basis, yet still had the capacity to do great work, to make
people laugh, to attract others to him, and to generally do awesome things
([http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-
stub-...](http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-stub-code)).

Do yourself a favor and read the note all the way through. Pass it around.
Remember that in general, half of the people you see every day have it
shittier than you do. Try not to be a jerk.

~~~
AgentConundrum
_I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with
counseling professionals_

I can relate to that part of the note. With one (minor?) exception, I've never
seen a proper doctor about my issues, but I've been to a number of counselors
over the years. Almost all of them have been completely useless to me, because
I can clearly see that I'm _not_ safe there.

I think it's a bit like the situation Mr. Zeller faced. I don't want to go far
into my issues, because this isn't the place for that and, even if it were, my
issues are nothing compared to his, but suffice it to say that in high school
I was pretty concerned about my ability to manage my anger. I managed to tell
a guidance counselor this, one I'd known since I started high school (she had
first been my French teacher, then was assigned to me when she transitioned
into counseling), and asked to be referred to a counselor before I hurt
someone.

When I was with the counselor, however, although I was there explicitly
because I was worried about hurting people, I was always measured in my
responses. I limited what I said because I was always trying to determine
where exactly the line was where a counselor becomes legally obligated to
report me to someone, and I tried my damnedest to stay on my side of that
line. It limited what I said, and it limited how much I could get out of the
experience, and so ultimately everything broke down and the counselor more or
less told me to come back when I was willing to actually talk. I ended up
getting basically nothing out of the experience, except for some extra time
with my grandparents since they lived near the counselors office. Considering
my grandfather died in April, and I still think of him every day, I suppose I
should be grateful for the experience because even if I got fuck all out of
the actual counseling, I still got to see my grandparents more.

~~~
bad_user
One thing you have to realize is that a counselor/doctor is not your friend,
but someone that helps you solve your problems with professional advice (level
of competency varies of course).

Getting over any recurrent destructive mood is much like a war. First you need
to go to war, then you need strategies, you need to work on it and there's
going to be pain involved, with multiple battles won and lost.

Going to counseling is one way to do it, another would be medication, or
support groups or just good friends that care. Either way you have to deal
with it and it isn't warm and cozy.

~~~
AgentConundrum
_One thing you have to realize is that a counselor/doctor is not your friend_

For a person dealing with trust issues, this sort of realization shatters any
chance of progress, at least in my personal experience.

I can't feel safe if I think I could say the wrong word and have the cops drag
me off for questioning. That's why I never got anywhere with counseling. For a
person with trust issues, it's extremely important that you feel safe in
counseling since you're making yourself extremely vulnerable by exposing
yourself to them.

I've since dealt with a lot of my issues on my own. I haven't hurt myself
intentionally in over two years, and that was an anomaly. It had been over two
years since I had last hurt myself at that point.

The point is that these aren't easy problems, and there are no easy solutions.

~~~
pyre
If you are still afraid of crossing some sort of invisible line where your
doctor/counselor is required to report you, then I would suggest that you
research that a bit so that you know where that line is yourself. Then you can
evaluate whether or not you think that you'll be able to fully open up without
worrying about crossing that line. It may be worth the time/effort that you
put into the research.

------
flipside
As someone who once planned to take a secret to my grave, this whole thing
saddens me.

I was luckier in a way that altered the course of my life, I let slip to a
friend in college that I had a secret. I had no intention of telling him of
course, but then he went ahead listing dozens and dozens of possible secrets
until he skipped over mine. So I took a chance and I told him and he accepted
me.

Looking back, that was the first crack in the darkness. People like me and
Bill Zeller might only drop a hint that something is wrong once in our lives,
don't be afraid to go chasing after it.

Thanks for finally sharing Bill, rest in peace now.

~~~
danielharan
A good reminder to be attentive. Thank you.

------
mitsche82
A lot of this letter described what I felt like up until just a few months
ago. I have also had experience with physical and emotional violence (no rape
though) and felt absolutely worthless most of my life. One year ago I decided
to seek out a therapist, which was one of the hardest things ever to do for
me. Therapy has been painful at times, sometimes leaving me completely in
shambles. But today I can say that I'm happy to be alive, and I feel worth of
being loved and I escaped the dark cloud that used to surround me almost
constantly for the majority of my life.

What I'm saying is: seek professional help. If you feel like you can't go on
anymore, seek professional help. Talking helps. Let go of the secrets that
keep eating you up alive. Share them with at least one person, be it a friend
or a professional. But under no circumstance keep them to yourself until they
kill you. Some of them weigh too much too carry them alone. Let someone help
you.

~~~
2oi03i9fhujcnd
Bill wanted to tell someone, but only one person. The problem is that you
can't tell one person because everyone has someone else that they will tell.
Someone always has a higher allegiance to another than you. Maybe it is
different for married people, but then we get a chicken and egg problem. How
can you find a partner to marry when issues like this, kept secret, keep you
from having a long-term relationship?

He tried to trust people at Trinity but they spread his secrets. He knows that
doctors and counselors have allowances for when they can disclose information.
He probably floated personal information his whole life to people to see if
they could be trusted. I bet each secret came back to him from another party.
He couldn't find a person to trust so he didn't disclose his ultimate secret.

He only wanted 1 person. He could deal with 1. Maybe years later 2 people, but
for now just 1. Not 1 in an anonymous posting online. Not 1 in a chat room. 1
right in front of you.

The problem is that there isn't 1. Some people can deal with that, being open
and all. For some, the quest for 1 is the goal, and realization that there
isn't 1 is hard to take. It doesn't help.

I read a lot of me in that letter. I am 29 now. Will I make it to 30? Yes. 35?
Maybe. 40? ...

~~~
gphil
I'd like to respond to your assertion that "he knows that doctors and
counselors have allowances for when they can disclose information."

This is true, but I think that it would be possible to find a counselor that
would not disclose any information, even if they were technically allowed to
do so. Furthermore, it seems possible to me that such secrets could be
partially disclosed to a counselor in a way in which there would be no
incentive for that counselor to pass along the information to another party.

Not having been in this kind of situation before, I can't imagine how horrible
it would be to harbor such a secret for a lifetime, and perhaps for Bill the
sheer weight of it made it impossible for him to tell anyone. But, I would
just like to try to make the point that there are viable options other than
keeping secrets bottled up.

As for your final comment, I sincerely hope that you can find the help that
you need to make it through whatever it is that is distressing you.

~~~
2oi03i9fhujcnd
Thank you for your kind words.

To understand where Bill is coming from you really need to hop into his shoes.
He tried to trust people but they violated that trust. Regardless of the
reasons for doing that, they didn't keep his secret. What he told them was
much less important to him than his ultimate secret. If they can't keep those
smaller secrets, why can they keep the big one?

For better or worse all of the other things he told people were tests. Who can
keep this secret? You, ok, I will let you in on a little more, then a little
more, then a little more. But no one kept all of them, so no one could
complete the journey to the last one.

Bill had no reason to trust a doctor. Everything in his life confirmed the
exact opposite - no one is to be trusted, everyone will tell your secrets.
Everyone always has that one person that they want to tell, but no worries,
it's ok, that person won't tell anyone.

Yup, but everyone has that person. And unfortunately for Bill, he wasn't able
to find someone to tell, and have their "one person" be Bill, thus keeping his
secret between two, and only two, people in this world.

~~~
pyre
For some people that 'one person' is themselves. And those people aren't
necessarily abused people with deep, dark secrets. To say that _everyone_ has
that person is a fallacy. The world rarely deals in absolutes.

~~~
2oi03i9fhujcnd
That is true, it certainly is possible. I can't actually prove the absolute
case.

But I do believe that it is much more probable that everyone has a personal
outlet with whom they speak. Life is hard. (Can I even say that absolutely?
Although completely foreign to me, I suppose there are people out there that
don't have hardships in life.) People need to vent to someone, share some
close or special with someone, and make a connection.

Without that people explode. This is one way people without that outlet
explode.

------
brandnewlow
This is a sad story. I am reminded of another Princeton suicide, Manzili Davis
'06 drove to California during spring break of his senior year, rented a
storage unit and took his life inside of it. It was weeks before he was found.
<http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/54/83M99/>

We had mutual friends and I met him a few times. He had his own "darkness"
just like Bill Zeller.

I do wonder if places like Princeton bring out the darkness in people there. I
enjoyed my time there but spent the last year of it in and out of counseling
and more depressed than I ever hope to be again.

There were some good counselors there in the health center who were kind and
patient. It's too bad Bill wasn't able to connect with one of them.

A lot of the problem is with the town. The "town" of Princeton is a sham
propped up to impress visiting students. There's really not a whole lot there.
Meanwhile, students are required to live in dorms all 4 years, which gives
them a really artificial "home life" that doesn't help ground you very much
either.

I lived and worked in the town of Princeton for two years after graduation and
it was a thoroughly depressing and isolating experience. Unless you're a
member of the university community, there's just nothing there to get excited
about. You have to leave on the train for the day to do anything interesting.

~~~
SkyMarshal
While Princeton may not quite have been sunny California, the banks of the
Charles, or Manhattan's Upper West Side, at least you weren't in frozen,
sunless, vitamin-D-less Ithaca, or downright dangerous New Haven. Count your
blessings. :)

~~~
larrik
Seriously, the area around Yale is terrible.

------
SkyMarshal
_'You may wonder why I didn't just talk to a professional about this. I've
seen a number of doctors since I was a teenager to talk about other issues and
I'm positive that another doctor would not have helped. I was never given one
piece of actionable advice, ever.'_

I hate that word 'actionable'. Every time I hear it used it is with the
implicit assumption that the only information of value is information that is
directly 'actionable', which is completely false.

There is also information that enlightens, that expands our understanding of
ourselves, other people, or the world, that changes our perspective, or
answers _why_ things are the way they are, that is equally or more valuable.
That kind of knowledge is not directly 'actionable', but often shows the way
forward.

The psychologist Milton Erickson showed that people innately know what they
need to do overcome internal problems, but sometimes need an external impetus
to realize and do it. Erickson found ways of providing that impetus with
mirroring, indirect logic, and reframing, among others. Too bad Bill never
found someone like that.

~~~
yogipatel
Very well said, I totally agree. It's not always black and white.

------
yeahsure
A very dear friend of mine just committed suicide a month ago. He was a very
intelligent guy about to become successful.

I wish he would have left a note like this behind to know why he did it.

I realize this comment doesn't add much value to the conversation, I'm just
thinking out loud. Thanks.

------
elliottcarlson
Without going in to many details, I understand where he is coming from. I
don't have the same history as Bill did, but I have lived through a generous
amount of trauma that has left me to be diagnosed with PTSD, much as it seems
he was dealing with. I have seen myself in his shoes in the past, and
thankfully for me I have been able to move on and share my life with someone
who understands my past, and let me understand her past which has been filled
with similar trauma.

While it is a shame to see someone take their life, I can't help but agree
that it is not selfish to commit suicide, but rather it is selfish to make
someone live with the pain they are enduring. This doesn't make it OK, nor
should people take that route, and at all costs should someone do their best
to get the help they need - because no matter what, there is someone who can
and will listen to you when it comes down to it. In the end though, don't hold
it against the person if this is their ultimate decision - and think about try
to remember them for the positive things that they stand for. When my best
friend killed himself in front of me, I didn't know what to do, or how to
react - I now understand and forgive him for everything, even though I think
it could have been better for him in the long run if we had spent 15 minutes
talking about his problems...

My condolences to his family and friends. I wish him peace and serenity - he
deserves it.

------
oomkiller
Damn, I saw the original (now deadened) post about this, and quickly sent him
a Facebook message to try to convince him to choose life. Looks like I failed.
Such a shame for such a bright mind to end so sadly and suddenly. Rest in
peace.

~~~
karanbhangui
I was apparently the first person on the phone with Princeton police (calling
from Canada), while my friend posted the original thread you speak of. It
seems he had already begun to hang himself by this time. I somehow wish I
could have called a minute or two earlier. And further, wish he had been able
to talk to someone about this before it ended the way it did. RIP my friend.

~~~
peteforde
I sincerely hope you'll pardon the cliche, but you did everything you could.

Thanks for doing that much. A lot of people would be frozen in shock upon
receiving something like that.

------
beej71
Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong?

He was so afraid to let the secret out... maybe that needs to be made
easier...?

I have no idea--I can't even begin to empathize with how difficult that must
have been to live with.

~~~
jayzee
Send his note to your friends and friends of friends. Disseminate it widely.
It will send the message that people care. Somebody you know may be dealing
with something similar.

~~~
Anothrowaway
Someone going through the same thing and then witnessing the end result of it
on this man isn't exactly positive reinforcement

~~~
phuff
The sad part is that there are people who can keep confidences. There are
counselors who would keep his confidence. There are friends who would keep his
confidence. I'm convinced there's probably even a girl out there who could
love him enough for who he was to help him understand that even though the
darkness was present her love was for him and was willing to deal with it's
presence.

If anything, this letter, and any suicide, can have the positive influence on
the rest of us, encouraging us to reach out to those around us who are pained
or troubled in anyway to just kind of try and lift their burdens for a moment.

Sorry if that sounds unrealistic, but there's been two suicides in my
neighborhood in the last 6 months, and in both cases I think if there'd been
more public discussion of options, more open discussion in society about
feeling like there's no way out and what you can do when you feel that way, if
there had been people who had been willing to tell people, "Hey, I know you've
got issues, but I'm willing to be your friend anyway..." that in some way
their lives perhaps could have been altered.

~~~
khafra
This whole thing has been making me think: It'd be expensive as hell and not
covered by medical insurance, and it sounds crazy, but I wonder if talking to
a lawyer would've helped. A study I can no longer locate found that talking to
any intelligent person who shows an interest is comparable to a professional
therapist; and lawyers generally take the privacy of their clients very
seriously.

~~~
micks56
The Model Rules of Professional Conduct (with each state adopting their own,
perhaps different rules) allow a lawyer to disclose confidential client
information to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm.
MRPC 1.6(b)(1).

So the lawyer may have kept his confidence, but may have had the option to
disclose.

Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for.

~~~
spindritf
> Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for.

A catholic priest may not reveal anything he learned during the confession, no
exceptions. That's the only "profession" I know with such a strong promise of
confidentiality.

"Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely
forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any
manner and for any reason." <http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM>

------
kiba
All I can say is that I am angry. Not sad, but angry! Angry at what? The
world? The fact that this can happen? The person that molest him? The
incomprehensible miserable feeling that I cannot hope to understand?

I don't know. I just can't comprehend it.

~~~
getsat
If you ever see an injustice being committed without the perpetrator being
caught and punished, keep this in mind.

I know I will be.

~~~
jacquesm
> If you ever see an injustice being committed without the perpetrator being
> caught and punished

That's the majority of them. Sadly.

~~~
getsat
Too true. :/

------
jaysonelliot
I so wish people would write out "Rest in Peace."

I know the intent is not to be disrespectful in any way, but the letters RIP
just seem so inappropriate for such a serious and important sentiment.

------
cduruk
I went to a boarding school in high school. Being a relatively nice school, we
had campuswide wireless and and the last two years of my education there, we
were also allowed to have our laptops in the dorms. So when I discovered
MyTunes which allowed every single student in the dormitory to access each
other's music, it was an instant hit. Pretty sure everyone with a laptop and
iTunes had it installed and there was one particular time I remember the IT
guys realizing the awkward amount of traffic originating around the boys'
dorm.

I met Bill when we interned at the same company during the summer of 2009. He
was a very reserved guy, not shy or introverted --or maybe a little--. During
a boring afternoon, I remember googling him and finding out that he was the
who wrote MyTunes.

This was then my first foray into the tech industry and right there I was
chatting it up with the guy who wrote that random piece of software that
became a hit at my school. It was very weird for me and I think I made it
weird for Bill for a while too because I made such a big deal out of it.

I'd not say we became good friends but I became someone Bill would at least
come say hi when we had stuff together as interns and that made me feel
special. We talked about random things several times, we had one particular
fun conversation about life in CT and another about deanonymizing data from
AOL search results.

During that summer, Bill transformed from being a rather chubby guy to a
decent looking man; I think he had put pictures of himself before and after
the summer. It was kind of humbling as I was kind of trying to do the same but
couldn't pull it off like he did.

Once the internship was over, we became friends on Facebook and talked
randomly every once in a while. Maybe a few times at best. I liked his status
updates, he liked mine. Stuff like that.

So few days ago, I woke up sick at 6AM (PST) and kind of involuntarily logged
in to Facebook. I saw his status update which was just "Note: <link>". I
clicked on it and there it was, that note. Sitting in my bed, reading the
first paragraphs, I wasn't sure if this was something he wrote, something he
wanted to share or some sort of random writing. It took me a few passes of the
first few paragraphs to realize that this was what I thought it was.

Once I realized that, I started shivering. I knew I had to do something but
wasn't sure what I had to do. I saw my RA from college was online; I told him
that I think I saw a suicide note on Facebook and I was calling the police. He
told me that I should first call my friend but I didn't have Bill's #.

So I looked up the Princeton PD's phone number and gave them a call. As soon
as I mentioned "Bill Zeller", they transferred me first to a "safety official"
and then to another.

The gentlemen on the phone told me that "someone has found him" and they "took
him down for treatment". I asked him about his condition but all he'd say was
"he is receiving treatment". They took down my phone number and my name and I
hung up.

As a response to what I realized has happened, I sent Bill a pretty lengthy
message on Facebook. I told "him" that I wasn't qualified to say anything
about his pain but I would be very upset to see a man like him perish. I told
him a part of the MyTunes story, probably the 10th time now. I told him that
things, however shitty, might become would get better. I felt like I had to
tell him that I cared. I told him to "hit me up" when he comes to SF. I think
we had a brief conversation on Facebook when I posted something about moving
to SF and how he'd say hi.

It feels very weird that I sent that message now. No idea if anyone is going
to read it. If I believed in god or after-life, I would have hoped that he'd
see it.

Now I saw the news, weirdly on HN before anywhere else. I read the MeFi link
and all the comments here; I saw Karan's comments about how he called
Princeton PD too. This is all weird to me and I have no idea why I am writing
this. Some sort of self-help, I guess.

I checked his Facebook account. It's bizarre, it really is. This is not the
first suicide of someone I knew or the first suicide of someone on Facebook
whose profile I can see. People are commenting, posting things. There are a
few comments like "I hope you can pull thru", posted around the time his
condition become public and then it becomes all condolences as the news of his
passing is heard.

It is weird to see him posting photos of a random desert he made a few days
before he hung himself.

I don't want to turn this into a cheesy "how technology has life and death"
thing so I'll stop here.

When I read the note, what stuck wasn't that he was abused but how big of a
secret he had and still couldn't do anything about it. Or even more than that,
how something like this ate him up from the inside, consumed him. That just
makes me look at people around him and wonder. And then I feel childish, for
wondering for things like that.

I had a really big mistrust for most people around me, caused by a rather
traumatic incident. Nothing too extraordinary, I just took it badly. I felt
like everyone around me was out to get each other. I don't think I ever
considered suicide but I remember thinking that I'll carry that scar for the
rest of my life.

I wish that Bill could get help. As others have said, there are people you can
trust your secrets with, maybe not your friends but professional counselors. I
cannot get myself to say "I respect his decision" as this is someone taking
their life and I wish he didn't perish like this but part of me feels that at
least he won't suffer the way he had been apparently.

I'll take a few moments today to think about my issues, things that make me
upset and will try to talk to someone about them. Maybe I'll drink a bit, talk
to some friends about some of my issues, most of which are admittedly minor. I
hope everyone who reads the news of Bill takes a few moments to think about
their life and how they can help themselves. Maybe that way, he'll have helped
others handle their problems and not do what he did.

~~~
karanbhangui
Well said bud.

------
atomical
Wow. That was intense. Not expecting to read such a well thought out note.

------
chanux
Just like any opinion, one very well written, it kind of made me feel that he
can be right.

But No. I don't want to believe in that.

Also, I really don't understand his situation. Only the one with the injury
knows how painful it is. But I really wish the nice people don't leave the
world so soon for a stupid reason.

It was scary to read his explanations why he can not open up. We can send some
peace Bill's soul's way if we learn the situation a bit better and try to be
more helpful to people who might be in trouble.

------
postit
Bill is like many others, haunted by his past, but appart from that he was a
great men. Others would have killed many people rather than avoid much pain.

see you some day bill.

~~~
madair
i don't think Bill is into your fallacy dude, your "see you someday" fallacy
killed him, have a little respect.

(clearly the promoters of the comment above either didn't read the note, or
have absolutely no sense of respect for what Bill said, ATROCIOUS)

~~~
cookiecaper
The "see you someday" fallacy did not kill him. Actually, his contempt for his
parents' religion (which is a tangential component in the note; certainly not
its primary grievance and not "what killed him") was caused by the "I'll never
see you because you'll be burning in awful hell forever because you disagree
with my pastor" fallacy.

------
lwhi
There are always unknown factors in any relationship, friendship or
acquaintance. We can never know the full sum of another person's experiences,
or how these have shaped the way they see the world.

More than anything, the next time I feel wronged or judgemental - I'm going to
make more of an effort to give the benefit of the doubt. The world isn't black
or white - the shades of grey seem to increase with every day.

Really, really sad.

------
leppie
Sad story, but this is what depression feels like, if I had such a skeleton in
the closet, I probably would have done the same. :*(

------
staunch
Seems like he was a really smart guy. It's sad no one was able to help him.
Rest in peace Bill Zeller.

------
cookiecaper
I've been wondering what the outcome was since the suicide note was posted
here briefly the other day, and have been meaning to look for an obituary. It
was a very powerful note. I hope he can finally access the peace he sought.

------
rudyadler
Bill's family & friends have set up a Memory Page to share memories together
online.

<http://1000Memories.com/BillZeller>

If you knew Bill, please join his page.

------
expressive
This is a sad day for all programmers, and also for those who have been
molested in any way. I cannot honestly understand the true pain he must have
felt, but I believe his pain was unlike anything most of us can understand.

What was most telling was his utter disgust for his parents, to the extent he
loathed them even more than he loathed the person who molested him and caused
darkness to reign over his life. And most ironic is that his parents believed
abandoning him for the love of God was in their and his best interest. I am a
Christian, and it sickens me what they have done because of what they believed
as him not being "saved."

I want to believe him, that he took his life because of the "darkness" in his
life, resulting from being molested as a child. But I am still puzzled that he
never spoke a word of disgust about the person who molested him. This was
shocking, considering he laid into his friends who couldn't keep a secret, he
mercilessly criticized his parents, yet never mention a bad word about the
molester, only the "darkness."

Unless, and this might be huge, the "darkness" is his father. He said his
mother loves him at one point, but he never said a good word about his dad. He
only criticized his father (while criticizing both parents). I am beginning to
think his father is the one who molested him, considering everything in his
letter.

The letter was very important, because it allows the reader to carefully study
and try to understand what might have caused this young man to take his own
life. Though being molested caused him much trouble and "darkness" throughout
his life, I believe his parents are partly to be blame for his mindful decline
into frightful and terrifying non-existence. And the big secret in his letter
is probably that his father molested him.

------
RP_Joe
Its a very sad story. Its a sad ending to a sad life. I have known many people
with a horrible past. I cannot understand their pain. I cannot understand
their depression because I have never experienced it. I can understand their
desire to end it all. By observing and listening to their pain that goes on
year after year, I can believe their life is very sad. When I was younger I
wanted to become violent against the perpetrators of such crimes. Now that I
am older, I realize this just adds to the problem. As a parent, his note is
very revealing to me. A warning about how I could make mistakes with my
children. I did not find it to intense. I am very grateful he took the time to
explain everything. I am grateful he talked about his family. I will spend
quit a bit of time thinking about his family and the mistakes they made. We
can learn from his pain.

------
abirikcham
My perps were never caught either. I identify with a lot of the feelings he
illustrated in this letter. It's bringing tears to my eyes. It is so hard to
explain something as controversial as this to people who have never
experienced or do not understand it, and Bill did a momentous job. Rest in
peace, Bill Zeller, and I wish for a moment that I believed in some kind of
afterlife, because you deserve heaven after all this hell you've been through.

------
_pius
Terrible, shocking news. I knew Bill in passing, as we'd talked about doing a
project together. He was a very nice, very smart guy. He will be missed.

------
basseq
Strange to see a name on HN and think, wait, I knew someone with that name.
Wait, the guy I knew went to Princeton. Wait...

I never met Bill in person, but we collaborated on a couple projects and used
to exchange random e-mails and IMs. He was a bright guy and I enjoyed our
correspondence. His note is heartbreaking, and I hope he has finally found
peace.

------
jodrellblank
I've no business commenting on this as I haven't ever suffered a similar sort
of trauma, you could argue. However I did start reading this note and found
myself strongly flustered at this part:

 _I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or
lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created
programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New
York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some
peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent
in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way
fulfilling._

I'm annoyed at how stupid it is. And how, until recently, I wouldn't even have
noticed. Let me translate to illustrate:

 _I desperately wanted to see what was on top of that hill over there. I
thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost
weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs
that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or
published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would find out what is at
the top of the hill. But nothing I did made a dent in my knowledge_

Wouldn't that be silly? Wouldn't that make you wonder what he was thinking?
Wouldn't you say "so go climb the hill. That's what you need to do and that's
all you need to do. Forget the distractions. Go over there. Climb the hill as
high as you can and keep trying every few days until you build up the fitness
to get to the top".

Yet you see the note of the guy and you feel sorry for him and how hard he
tried to keep living and how much he struggled and what pain he was in and he
missed this concept completely. If you want peace you need to work on peace
and why you can't be at peace and changing yourself so you can. If you want to
not be haunted you need to work on not being haunted and if you want to be
happy you need to work on being happy and how you can be. Not on grad school
or weight loss or gym work or _anything_ else. Your life isn't unhappy, your
thoughts are unhappy. Don't improve your life, improve your thoughts. It might
not work, but the other way cannot work.

If your code isn't working right, you'll never ever ever fix it by going to
the gym. You will only stand any chance of fixing it if you look for the bugs
in the code that isn't working and out from there. If you have been hurt and
can't be happy, you need to work out how to feel happy even though you got
hurt. That's it. That mental adjustment is where the bulk of your energy
should be going. Learning to change it and trying repeatedly until you
succeed.

It's so frustrating to look at it and see him basically saying "I skirted
around my problems all my life and suffered horribly, and when they didn't
magically go away I decided they were completely unfixable".

You can feel however you like about whatever you like. This definitely extends
to feeling good even when bad things happen. Maybe not _all_ bad things, but
many. It may not extend to PTSD. What's frustrating is that he believed he was
unfixable _without any solid basis for that belief_ \- without talking to a
single expert, even - then made the biggest and last decision of his life
based on this conclusion.

It's not cowardly or morally inferior or anything like that, it's just ... a
strategy that stands a low chance of helping.

~~~
cap4life
You assume that he was able to apply logic to his emotional sensibilities.
Because of what happened to him, this could never be the case. The darkness,
as he called it, enveloped his reason. One of a host of horrific and sad
consequences of his suffering.

~~~
jodrellblank
_Because of what happened to him, this could never be the case._

No, not because of what happened to him, because almost nobody thinks that way
in our society so there's no reason why he would.

Is there anything in your life which hurts to think about? Have you ever
dedicated yourself to working out why it hurts and how to stop it hurting, or
do you continually avoid thinking about it? I'm guessing that there is, and
that you avoid it because it's never even crossed your mind that it might be
fixable.

And that it's almost certainly not crossed your mind to start by assuming it
is fixable and then try as many techniques as you can find and keep trying
hard and practising them and looking for more and not giving up until you have
found one that works. Because, you know, everyone suffers and suffering is
normal. Isn't that sad?

~~~
cap4life
Actually, I do this often - I often think about why something is bothering me
or why a particular incident hurt me or offended me. Maybe because I'm pretty
introspective, I literally don't know how to put off things that bother me
because they are ever present in my mind.

And I do assume that it's fixable because, at one point, I was not bothered or
unhappy or depressed. So I assume that whatever it is that's upsetting me, I
can find out the cause, fix it, and return to being ok.

------
chewedwire
Wow...I knew him at Princeton in a passing sense, we were in the same computer
graphics class and he advised my group for another class. He was without a
doubt a brilliant guy.

------
VeXocide
I'm just truly lost for words, hope he finds peace.

------
michaelty
RIP Bill. Hopefully, the pain has stopped now.

------
zackattack
This might be a good time to mention that we are looking for volunteers for
<http://CompassionPit.com/>. It was created by people who have struggled with
depression for most of their life. The other day someone commented about it,
"I used CompassionPit for the first time this week. I really like the idea of
it. Reminds me of when I reached out to an online videogame friend when I was
12 years old when I was super depressed." I think many people here can relate
to this. Anyway, if you want to contribute you can do it in two ways. You can
either just join and be present for other people, or you can help with the
source code. It's written in python. Your help would be very much appreciated.
Thanks.

Edit: the source is available at <https://github.com/zackster/CompassionPit>
\- looking to add a few features... send me an email if you are available.

~~~
kingsley_20
Great idea. Would you consider changing the "pit" part of the name?

~~~
zackattack
I would consider it but I am skeptical that it would be a worthwhile change.
E.g. Something like "CompassionPlane" might promote more of a sense of
equality but it also negates the dark truths that, if more readily confronted,
would perhaps have helped certain people avoid the "pit" they are in. When you
are feeling awful it does not help to pretend otherwise. You are truly feeling
awful and not resisting it is the first step.

I welcome your thoughts

~~~
endtime
I agree with Kingsley. "Pit" is a very depressing word, more likely to conjure
up images of the doldrums than of compassion.

------
nickl
I think he should have joined doctors without borders, peace corps or whatever
it is called, or one of those Christian mission (even though he had a problem
with Christians) . He may have found peace in helping those who suffered more
then him

~~~
tomjen3
Do you really think most of the people doctors without borders helped suffered
as much as he did?

~~~
aik
I don't think any of us can honestly answer that question. Why is it even
relevant what state most of the people are in.

