
How the Jeans Capital of the World Moved from Texas to China - okfine
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-the-jeans-capital-of-the-world-moved-from-texas-to-china
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zer00eyz
As someone who has the skills (cutting, sewing, buttons, rivets) to make a
pair of jeans there is a really simple reason that we (the USA) don't make
jeans any more: cost.

Lets take a look at one guy making jeans in the US:
[http://www.roydenim.com/video](http://www.roydenim.com/video) (video is a
great place to start, you get a sense of what the work looks like). But for
$225 a pair, its an indulgence.

~~~
unethical_ban
You should have the skills to operate the machine that makes 5,000 pairs a
day. Why can't mass manufacturing in America be a thing?

~~~
michaelt

      operate the machine that makes 5,000 pairs a day
    

Robotics engineer here.

It turns out it's ridiculously difficult to make machines that will reliably
deal with small, flexible, sometimes-overlapping, sometimes-folded,
identically coloured bits of fabric.

You can automate parts of the garment-making process - embroidery, cutting
things from rolls, stuff like that - but sewing the bits together
automatically is really difficult for a machine, compared to a human.

If you've got clever solutions for this feel free to advance the technology -
I'd really like a robot that can do my laundry :)

~~~
RGamma
It's somehow hard to believe that clever engineers couldn't come up with
something, although I don't have anything to offer in this regard.

Maybe one would need to think about entirely different sewing patterns (that
must look the part) and cloth stretching/folding mechanisms for this problem.

It's easy to see why you (with current technology) can't simply "make a robot
that does what the human does" here.

~~~
zer00eyz
You have a totally valid line of thinking going on.

Take something like the humble T-shirt. The process of making those is way
more "automated" than it was even 30 years ago. The reason for this is that
the t-shirt hasn't changed THAT much in 30 years, and is now more popular than
ever. Due to the material, and the pattern, there is a lot of it that is the
exact same step between product variations (size, cut etc) or can be done on
the same machine the same way.

However, something as simple as pants, not only change seasonaly (shorts) but
they change annualy. It is easier for a car manufacturer to build an automated
assembly line for welding a frame, than it is for a manufacturer of clothing
to do the same for "this seasons" hot item.

For the sake of argument, if we all agreed to wear bellbottoms for the rest of
time as our only pants, and to only make them out of one kind of denim, it
would STILL be hard for all the reasons mentioned above, but we would have
reason to automate (scale). Even then, your producing the pants in 60 some odd
waist/lenght combos for men, never mind women, children, teens.

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carsongross
This is where, and bear with me on this HN, Donald Trump is right.

We in the west, especially us smart folks, cherish our environment, and we
think it is shameful to force people to work in inhumane conditions. How fair
is it, then, to force our fellow westerners who didn't win the intelligence
lottery to compete with labor in countries that don't care one whit about
either?

It isn't right. The multinationals will shriek bloody murder about it, because
they've made a killing engaging in moral arbitrage, but it's time to tariff
the hell out of products produced in ecological and human conditions we would
find deplorable in our own countries.

~~~
evanpw
Do you think that by using tariffs for political pressure, we can force China
to raise their standard of living to developed-country levels? Otherwise, this
just amounts to a transfer from the Chinese poor to the American poor, which
seems like a big net loss morally.

~~~
Inconel
I'm curious why you would label the transfer from the Chinese poor to the
American poor as a net loss morally? Is the transfer from the American poor to
the Chinese poor also morally suspect?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious about your
statement. Is it a moral loss because the American poor are still relatively
better off than their Chinese counterparts or something else?

~~~
evanpw
Yes, the typical Chinese factory worker (who would not even be particularly
poor by Chinese standards) is quite a bit poorer than the typical displaced
American factory worker, so there should be a strong presumption against
transferring wealth from the former to the latter.

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adamconroy
Jeans are a weird phenomenon. Ugly, heavy, unflattering fabric. They only look
good on people who would look good no matter what they wore.

Worse still, they are like a disease. I was in a bar/restaurant recently, and
I couldn't help but notice how many people were wearing jeans. So I did a
visual survey, and as far as I could tell, out of about 40 people, only myself
and one other lady were not wearing them. Even my wife was in a pair.

~~~
brusch64
What would be your alternative ? You think that people look better in working
casuals ? Suits ? From your comment I would suppose that you are living in the
US.

I personally wear jeans pretty much exclusively and have no problem with it. I
prefer and search for heavy jeans.

In my opinion people always look better in fitting clothes. If they are
wearing unfitting jeans, they are going to look bad in it. If they are wearing
unfitting suits, they gonna look bad in it. If they wear fitting clothes
nearly everything works.

Many years back I've worked with an American company (I am from Europe) and
they really didn't like us wearing jeans all the time (a totally normal thing
to do in Europe where I am living). They said it didn't look professionel
enough if you aren't wearing working casuals.

~~~
adamconroy
I guess my ideal alternative would be simple diversity. But if everyone is
going to wear the same thing then I would prefer it if the fabric was more
aesthetically pleasing.

But of course its none of my business, everyone can do what they like.

It sort of feels like a feature of 'Brave New World', where everyone is
apathetically conditioned to wear the same thing.

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AndrewKemendo
I find this interesting timing for the documentary/article, as this is
certainly not a new phenomenon [1] and if anything is beginning to reverse
with "re-shoring."

What does seem to be happening is more discussion about the impacts of many of
the free trade agreements of the 70's/80's/90's - more specifically how goods
made in the US were off-shored as a result.

[1][http://www.alternet.org/story/13095/levis%3A_made_in_china](http://www.alternet.org/story/13095/levis%3A_made_in_china)

[2][http://apparel.edgl.com/news/Reshoring-Success-Stories--
What...](http://apparel.edgl.com/news/Reshoring-Success-Stories--What-s-
Branding-Got-to-Do-with-It-104291)

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anu7df
I understand the economic reality (aka greed) that led to this. But if
production was made local again, how does one handle the environmental impact?
Or is there no way to make a durable good pair of jeans without destroying the
environment?

~~~
hyperliner
There is always a way. However, taking care of the environment would add
expenses to the production process and, as a result, the cost of the pair of
jean would have to increase, as would the price. Once that happens, we would
then skip that environment-conscious product for one that did not have that
cost embedded.

I was reading an article about the price competition in airlines. People would
spend 30 minutes looking for a better deal, to get a flight that would be $5
cheaper.

If we do that for a product that basically flies you through space, imagine
what you would do with a product that is disposable.

I guess the hypocrisy is that we don't want to talk about that issue. We would
rather not have immigrants picking tomatoes, or sewing jeans. We can always
just transfer that production to China, where the environmental and human
effects are invisible to us.

~~~
anu7df
I agree to what you are saying, to an extent. Yes I comparison shop when
buying air tickets and buy the cheapest, because I am not aware of the
environmental impact differences between airlines. While shopping for grocery
on the other hand I try to buy from local farmers even at higher costs, though
i am gaining much more here as the local products tastes so much better. When
it comes to clothes though, it looks like it is made in china or nothing. If
clothes were made profitably in the US till 70's and real wages haven't gone
up since then, why is it impossible to make clothes here without the
astronomical price tags? The raw materials (cotton for example), as the
article says, already comes from here.

~~~
takee
My gut says that it's because the brands have gotten used to a fatter
margin/profits, but then I'm no expert.

~~~
hyperliner
I think the market has changed as Americans have more disposable income and
attitudes towards fashion have changed.

In the past, our grandparents used to buy those jeans you could buy at the
hardware store. Remember those?

But now, do you think anybody who is seeking to increase the number of likes
in Facebook or Instagram is going to be caught dead on those jeans? No. You
want the latest "trendy" jean. But trends are fleeting. So it is a risky
proposition for the jean maker. A lot of the expenses are not on making the
jeans, but on brand development and marketing. Also, [insert your favorite TV
reality show starlet here] will command a few millions just to appear on the
show wearing those jeans. Where do you think the money comes from?

So I think it is a combination of a) the market has more disposable income but
b) refuses to spend it on things that don't benefit "me and my appearance" and
c) the market became riskier due to the branding risk and therefore is pushed
to cut costs to maintain a reasonable return. And if Americans don't TRULY
care about perpetuating Slavery in China or killing the environment over there
("hey, I do, really, really, but I don't want to know about it while taking a
sip of my latte;" \- checks iPhone for messages just in case someone texted me
while you took me to some horrible place where there are what slaves - "no
they are not slaves, my $50 gives them jobs okay?" sips latte again), then why
would a brand increase their risk by increasing the cost profile?

So we see the enemy every time we look at ourselves in the mirror.

(Back to sipping my own latte)

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HillaryBriss
The explanation behind the title is summarized in this line from the article:
"With rock-bottom wages and government assistance, the industry boomed."

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induscreep
so how does the Japanese raw denim industry compare to US/China?

~~~
ericdykstra
It's alive and well! But in size and scale, it won't compete with US/China
just because of the fact that most people don't care about the quality of
their jeans. Like most things, the premium market is much smaller than the
"good enough" market. The top brand names for raw denim enthusiasts are still
chiefly Japanese companies.

I've bought 5 pairs of Japanese denim from 5 different manufacturers over the
past 7 years. If anyone has questions about raw denim, feel free to leave a
comment or send me a message.

~~~
ksec
I do, what makes different denim great? What makes them Artisian? Why are
Japaness Denim better?

Is Miracle Air from Uniqlo part of it?

