
Google's latest iPhone rival off to a rocky start - iamthirsty
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-pixel/googles-latest-iphone-rival-off-to-a-rocky-start-idUSKBN1CS2P6
======
phreack
I seriously wanted to like the Pixel, I think Apple's business model is
entirely harmful, but the lack of a headphone jack on the flagship Google
phone is really the last straw. We've lost so much good tech over the years to
reduce costs, that I just can't accept a premium phone dropping such a global
standard for no good reason at all. Next time I buy a phone I'll vote with my
wallet and go with more consumer friendly options.

~~~
drakenot
Everyone lamenting the loss of the headphone jack reminds me of the same
people lamenting the loss of the CD-ROM drive in the MacBooks.

The headphone jack is a legacy, bulky port. I would not be surprised to see a
port-less phone in the next few years.

Apple has a really good track record of dropping things at the right time:
floppy, CD-ROM, Flash, etc.

At each of those steps there were people decrying the loss of these things.
Today however, most people don’t miss any of them. They made the right choice
then and I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt now.

~~~
foxfired
The problem is, the alternative to dropped techs were better to some extent:

\- CD-ROM -> Bigger hard drives, faster internet connections.

\- Floppy -> CD-ROMs And BIOS upgrade

\- Flash -> Better browser security, and faster javascript

Now for headphone jack, we have bluetooth. Slow, unreliable, requires to
charge an extra device, when you run out of earphone battery, you are done
listening. If you use the USB/Lightning to AUX, you can't charge your phone at
the same time.

If lose the earpiece, you pay premium to replace it.

Also: I can't watch a video with a half-second audio delay. Half a second is
being generous.

~~~
cwilson
Bluetooth is slow and unreliable unless you're using Airpods (due to the W1
chip), which I think is the more subtle move by Apple in this case. I was not
a happy camper when I first read about Apple removing the headphone jack, but
I won't lie, I'm an Airpod convert. They work flawlessly for me and I haven't
traveled with or used normal headphones since I got them (other than a nicer
pair of over-the-ears when I'm working on my desktop).

I'm not saying this excuses the removal of the headphone jack, but from a
business perspective it does add up.

~~~
dpkonofa
I've said it multiple times now but I was exactly the same way. I was a little
bit annoyed at the removal of the headphone jack but then ended up getting the
iPhone 7 because I wanted the newer features. I didn't have wireless
headphones, so I went all in and got the AirPods along with it and, holy hell,
this is the closest that any technology has come to really feeling like magic
to me. The pairing process was awesome, the range is great, the sound quality
is great (after breaking them in hard for a week or two), and I literally
forget that I'm wearing them sometimes to the point where it feels like the
music is coming from inside my head. They're just so convenient and nice that
I'm ok with doubting Apple initially but relieved that they proved me wrong.
Forget the headphone jack. If this works the way these AirPods do going
forward, I'm a convert.

~~~
kalleboo
> the sound quality is great

Really? I use AirPods when I'm out and about but when I'm at my desk I plug in
a pair of $20 wired Sony earbuds that sound way better...

~~~
nilkn
Personally I really do find the sound quality to be quite good on the AirPods.
When I'm at home I'm often using a much more expensive pair of open
Beyerdynamic headphones so it's not like I haven't experienced high quality
sound, though I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile.

------
wakkaflokka
This whole situation frustrates me to no end.

The Pixel 2 XL checks all of my boxes, which really aren't much: runs Android,
has a large screen, is fast, has a good camera, is fast, is supported with
updates for a few years, and is fast. My S7 Edge has made me truly understand
the life pain and suffering that even minor lag can cause.

I implicitly assumed that any phone which would fit those criteria and be in
the $700-$800 price range would also have a flawless screen. I'm not even
talking about a Note8-level "holy shit that's amazing" screen - more like an
S7 level of "nice screen" screen.

A speedy Android UI is so important to me though that I'm at least going to
give the phone a shot when I receive it. "Maybe it's just a bad batch," I'm
telling myself. And promptly RMA it or return it if there's any issues.

Part of me feels bad that I'm still willing to part with my money to try this
phone out. Does that make me a sucker?

~~~
martinald
Why not get the old Pixel XL? It's still a great phone.

~~~
flukus
It will only get software updates for another year and security updates for 2
more years, it's 1/3 of the way through it's effective lifespan. The supported
lifetimes are far too short when you buy in release day, let alone a year
later.

~~~
bubblethink
You _should_ be able to manually update it to newer android versions after the
official updates end since it has treble. The kernel as of now is still stuck
on 3.18. Unless the blob makers update to 4.4, that will be the limiting
factor regarding security updates.

------
brian-armstrong
Forget about headphones or not for a second. Removing the jack is about
killing the last analog hole for good. It's about control. Yes there are
adapters for now but they're transitional and we can expect them to eventually
go away.

Once the output is locked down, expect to see the equivalent of HDCP show up.
Only music you have purchased through your phone's marketplace may be played,
and only to an authorized device.

That's the broader issue here, and it shows one more step in the long path to
removing your ownership of your devices.

~~~
thirdsun
> Yes there are adapters for now but they're transitional and we can expect
> them to eventually go away.

Unlikely. The headphone market is huge and these devices are expected to work
with everything, from mobile devices to AV Receivers, DACs, amps and studio
equipment. The headphone jack isn't going anywhere.

> Only music you have purchased through your phone's marketplace may be
> played, and only to an authorized device.

I doubt it. The music industry is pretty open these days and has given up on
DRM for a long time - you can buy DRM-free, lossless music from countless
places and while I understand that purchasing music has become rare, your
scenario would be a dealbreaker for anyone that still does and truly owns
their music. That might be a small share, but still a significant crowd. It
would render the device close to useless for people like me. This is a whole
other level compared to the compromise of an adapter.

~~~
brian-armstrong
What do you mean it isn't going anywhere? It's already gone. People who have
discrete equipment are vastly in the minority and won't have any choices left
anyway once every phone maker has dropped the jack. Plus, how often do you see
an iPhone plugged into an AVR?

~~~
thirdsun
I mean that the jack will remain the default connector headphones regardless
of what the iPhone or any other phone does, since headphones have other
devices to consider. Will there be Apple-only headphones with lightning
conenctor? Sure. But any pair of serious cans will be expected to work on any
device and that means it will use the headphone jack. You'll simply need an
adapter to use them with mobile devices.

> Plus, how often do you see an iPhone plugged into an AVR?

I'm talking about the headphone's connector.

------
AceJohnny2
I'm not sure people understand quite the level of investment Apple puts into
1) quality-control and 2) supply-chain management. These take years to build
up and maintain.

HTC at least has long had issues. A few years ago, my much-anticipated HTC One
was a huge disappointment when the camera went purple. I'm curious to know
what their defect rate on the Pixel 2 is (not that there's any chance of that
ever being public)

~~~
notatoad
Interestingly, the htc-made pixel seems to be the better of the two. The
defect-ridden phone is the LG one (at least so far)

~~~
chrisper
It was the same with Nexus 5x (LG made) and Nexus 6p (HTC made). Nexus 5x was
a disaster.

~~~
e40
While my 5x never suffered the dreaded bootloop, I will never buy another LG
phone. In the time I used it, Google replaced it 3 times. And hang out on the
5x subreddit, it's filled with unhappy people.

~~~
chrisper
Yes. I owned the Nexus 5x. Imho it was a horrible phone (especially compared
to Nexus 5)

------
satysin
OLED screens are lovely in many ways but after having a Galaxy S6 that I had
to return _twice_ due to burn in I avoid it now. It just isn't worth the
hassle of having to get the phone repaired/replaced. It took Samsung over a
week each time to replace the phone (for free) which was a royal pain in the
ass.

I know OLED tech is getting better and maybe with Apple putting an OLED in the
iPhone X it means they (well Samsung as that is who makes the screen in the
iPhone X) have "cracked it". However I am going to wait a couple of months to
see how things play out before I jump on the OLED bandwagon again.

~~~
gilrain
Anecdote for anecdote: I've been enjoying OLED screens on my Android phones
since the Galaxy Nexus (2011), and I've never had burn-in or any other
display-specific issue.

~~~
Stratoscope
Same here. My Note 4 is three years old, with hours of screen-on time per day
at a fairly high brightness. (I use it primarily as a tablet, not a phone.)
Not the slightest hint of burn-in or any display problems.

------
wnevets
No headphone jack, no wireless charging. Why is the pixel going backwards?

~~~
choward
Usually you can only get one of those.

~~~
jscipione
The LG V30 and Samsung Galaxy S8 were both released this year and both feature
wireless charging and a headphone jack.

~~~
Steko
Want to take bets on whether LG and Samsung's flagships will offer a headphone
jack in 2019?

~~~
dragonwriter
Samsung still offers a flagship with a stylus, which everyone else stopped
doing about the time of the _first_ iPhone, and they recently went back to
including support for additional storage on their flagships.

They _might_ drop the headphone jack soon, but I wouldn't bet on it.

------
lanius
I believe only the Pixel 2 XL is plagued by screen issues. The regular Pixel 2
doesn't seem to have any widespread screen issues.

~~~
on_and_off
They don't use the same supplier.

------
radicaldreamer
It's obvious Google has miscalculated when the their billboards show off the
back of the device while Apple is advertising the edge-to-edge display of the
iPhone X.

~~~
on_and_off
heh

I don't know ... they are both compromises.

a very ugly notch, no front facing speakers, the need for a really great palm
rejection algorithm (and even in this case, the bottom of the screen might be
a bit unwieldy to reach).

It does look cool, but it is 'just' a different compromise than the one made
on the pixel.

------
mmanfrin
Apple's iPhone 7 rival is also off to a rocky start, seeing as how the 7 is
outselling the 8.

~~~
MBCook
The 7 is a great phone and it’s cheaper now.

There has been a guess at the reason: people want the X. Thought is after the
reviews come out and say it’s not that great, or people try to preorder and
get told they have to wait until March they may give up and buy the 8.

We’ve never had a situation where there are two dates the iPhone comes out on
before so we don’t know how much thats effecting demand for the 8.

~~~
6nf
Around my neck of the woods everyone I know are holding out for the X.

~~~
nunez
Thanks to T-Mobile JUMP, I was able to get the 8 and will get the X next week
or as soon as they are avaialable. I presume that many are doing the same

~~~
selectodude
That just seems oddly wasteful.

~~~
deusum
Exchange 8 for the X and TMo refurbs and resells, perhaps.

~~~
nunez
Exactly right

------
51Cards
As soon as I saw no headphone jack I immediately stopped considering an
upgrade. I still love my Pixel v1 but when it comes time to replace it I will
be looking elsewhere now. It's not a feature I'm willing to give up.

------
notyourday
Because if you are a company that "eats the world" via automatic selling of
the ads your leadership and your engineers are delusional enough to think that
everything you touch turns into gold not because of hundreds of thousands of
hours spent on testing and tweaking but because of your new amazing phone
orchestration software.

------
ensiferum
I'm so tired of Android devices being buggy, laggy and come with bad ux. Will
never buy another Android device.

------
dandare
Is that the one with no headphone jack?

~~~
miguelrochefort
Phones won't come with headphone jacks anymore. Deal with it.

~~~
__alias
There's got to be a word for the attitude you are running here.. I can't think
of it.

Anyway, as an owner of wireless headphones and wired headphones I definitely
wouldn't choose a phone without an aux in. My wireless headphones have stayed
uncharged for months - i'm not yet ready to be responsible for charging two
devices every night.

~~~
username223
> There's got to be a word for the attitude you are running here.. I can't
> think of it.

"Fatalism"? It's the same attitude that leads some people to roll over and
agree that "privacy is dead -- get used to it." The replacement of the
headphone jack by a port that is worse in every way, by wireless 'phones that
are unreliable and need to be charged every few hours, or by an expensive
dongle makes life worse for everyone except headphone and dongle salesmen. The
rest of us should not simply roll over and take it.

~~~
hanklazard
I agree. The issue is, as a longtime iPhone user, I'm being forced into a no-
headphone-jack phone. I need to get a new phone in the next month or so, and
my major options are:

1\. iphone SE - seems great, but given its internals are 6S, it will be
updated into slow performance sooner than my other options. 2\. iphone SE 2 -
rumored to come out in the next 4-6 months, but who's to say it will have a
headphone jack? 3\. iphone 7/8/X - dongle land 4\. Switch to android - apart
from standard friction of using a new OS (probably not a very big deal), I may
need to re-buy a number of apps. And the one android phone I was counting on,
the Pixel 2, now also doesn't have a headphone jack. Thanks google.

I'm actually tempted to just buy an android phone by Blu or something; this
overpriced hardware seemed almost worth it when it was at least not taking
away features that I use everyday.

Is that the best version of not rolling over and taking it? Ugh. If anyone has
any suggestions, I'd appreciate them.

~~~
zanedb
Well, be careful buying a Blu phone if you value your privacy..

[https://www.cnet.com/news/these-cheap-phones-are-costing-
you...](https://www.cnet.com/news/these-cheap-phones-are-costing-you-your-
privacy/)

[https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/31/16072786/amazon-blu-
suspe...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/31/16072786/amazon-blu-suspended-
android-spyware-user-data-theft)

~~~
hanklazard
Yikes, thanks for the heads-up. A friend of mine who also values privacy was
telling me how much he likes his Blu phone ... that's really a shame.

------
asenna
Google has been having a hard time getting their phones up to standards.
Although I've been lucky having bought my phones from Google directly. My
Nexus 5 was replaced for free when it cracked on falling (apparently the phone
had a problem of the screen breaking too easy). Recently they replaced my well
out of warranty Nexus 6P with a Pixel XL 128Gb for free (because of the
battery issues). People who didn't buy these from Google directly in the US
have a whole other story.

------
perlpimp
Terrible idea that they killed nexus phones. its was everchanging parade of
interesting angles from various providers. now its just google. ugh.

------
pasbesoin
After my Nexus 5X bootloop problem, this about puts the nail in the coffin of
LG phones, for me.

By the way, what's wrong with this scenario?

= Lots of people want a headphone jack. "You can't have one."

= Lots of people want limits on tracking -- and on incessant nagging to enable
settings that track. 'Wall of deafening silence.'

= People want some semblance of privacy. Sign on Chicago Apple Store door, to
the effect of: 'By entering, you agree to let us collect and use your image
for [non-security purposes].'

Gee, it's almost as if we aren't even customers. Certainly not customers who
are listened to and respected.

But of course! I should simple sit back and let Google/Apple/X's AI tell me
what I want!

P.S. Bluetooth is still significantly suck-y. And, on my "temporary" two and a
half month old current-generation Motorola phone that I bought to tide me over
after the Nexus 5X bootlooped, I've not yet received a patch for the recent
Bluetooth vulnerability (not to mention the current WPA fiasco). Fortunately,
if somewhat inconveniently, that Motorola G5+ has a headphone jack.

SO... Am I going to go from that "tide me over" Motorola to the Pixel 2, that
I was waiting for?

I'm more and more dis-inclined to do so.

~~~
solatic
> Gee, it's almost as if we aren't even customers. Certainly not customers who
> are listened to and respected.

For any product that is shipped at large enough scale:

* The barriers to entry to replace that product at similar cost and apparent feature set get necessarily higher

* The share of overall demand which is de facto inelastic increases, and therefore decreases in quality have a disproportionately low effect on overall demand

Regulation is a necessary tool to fight this phenomenon.

------
wolster
Well maybe one day they will stop refusing to sell them in Denmark. Small
market yeah, but Apple seems to have no problems selling expensive
phones...always on the same day as US.

------
swah
That first picture is embarassing - my Nexus 5 looks better than that. I never
liked Samsung, but their S8 is miles ahead if the point is "looking modern".

------
singularity2001
I'd buy one if I didn't know they are violating my privacy. And one dropping
on the floor can (and will) destroy all the glory.

------
user5994461
Is it just me or this title makes no sense?

~~~
fiatpandas
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlinese](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlinese)

[https://hinative.com/en-US/questions/263433](https://hinative.com/en-
US/questions/263433)

------
z0d
All the laptops, desktops and their chipsets They all sport 3.5mm jacks with
SPDIF optical + mic and headset. Dedicated soundcards like ASUS Xonar,
Creative SoundBlaster X RGB they ship with gold caps and high grade chips with
proper 7.1 Dolby and Surround certification + THX Audio and even MSI uses
Nahimic DSP + ESS Sabre chips in their high end gaming GT series, Even the
latest trashbook pro's with USB C have a jack which is meh with Apple's Cirrus
Logic used across all their devices, My Samsung Galaxy S with Wolfson chip +
Linux kernel level driver (Voodoo mod) offering huge control options for user
trumps most of the devices, Also the iPod5.5G of mine with a more superior
Wolfson chip.

The Audio is always Analog, Digital is in your computer or streamed as data
but the audio is only audible in Analog. And every phone has an DAC chip to
convert all the data you feed to the mic to the chip and mobo and OS, the DAC
converts its so that you can listen to it.

Going digital will make things complicated, Like for eg in every dongle you
have to rewire the DAC to the USB to the chipset and SoC to make sure that the
Audio dongle works. The 3.5mm is still standard across, your Passenger jets,
Fighter Jets, Professional Audio, Casual user, Audiophile community. Why ?
Because it just works, the mechanical strength of the 3.5mm port is robust
plus the 360 degree freedom and the USB C using the Digital line needs another
circuitry and breaks standard. Ultimately this 3.5mm port is the de-facto
standard deployed on ALL systems across the world.

Apple did for 3 reasons.

1) Apple has two different lines of wireless devices that sell for premium
prices. Beats and Airpods (Which are literal trash grade sounding, using an W1
chip is to bridge that steps one takes to pair them and accelerometer + gyro
aren't ground breaking when coming to the purpose, ofc one wont buy them for
audio but for convenience while they still work with the iPhones which have
the 3.5mm adapter)

2) Each and every lightning to 3.5 needs MFi certification that will give them
continuous stream of revenue on all audio gear and including the people who
use the 3.5mm old headsets + those dongle money, Apple became a dongle company
from tech company all the innovation and brave policy of Apple is gone with
Steve, Tim is nothing but Ballmer at M$, who ruined Nokia and M$ both..

3) Strong DRM control, Closing analog will make then have control over the
I/O, A thoroughly made 100% business focused decision.

3a) Please don't bring the space waste B$ to here, see Note 8 PCB design and a
hint, check the MXM GPUs on MSI GT83VR and Titan and Clevo P870DM3 which are
sporting a 1080 GPU which is socketed and has power to beat the Desktop chips.
PCB design is to adhere by OEMs standards don't spout what Coolaid corporate
Orwellians demand showing that Taptic engine and missing space...

This Apple's CEO is a beancounter and a disease to the innovation as they keep
in raising the walls of their utopia where ignorance is bliss.

Next up thinking about the USB C Audio, that standard barely materialized and
lacks proper standard, Pixel for eg doesn't have Video out and iPhone's old 40
pin has dedicated Audio line, the new 3.5mm adapter has only DAC while the AMP
works from the Phone, for Apple it's easy but for the people it's complicated
on multiple stages.

a - No proper audio quality, the DAC chips which will be used in the dongles
are undocumented, forget the phones which are offering dedicated DAC/AMP in
theirs - Axon 7's DAC HiFi works on LineageOS too a unique one, HTC 10, Vivo
is famous for their HiFi. Cheap knockoff ones will sound worse, If you add a
DAC inside a headphone that ruins the purchase for many as not all will like
that sound signature where as Analog 3.5mm ones can have clear audio tuned for
that IEM/Headset.

b - Dongles - More space waste inside your pocket and no standard, perhaps
iPhone ecosystem is standard, can't match tot he 3.5mm spectrum but on USB C
it's worse doesn't and doesn't have any AMP or any Analog line, it's 100%
digital so you MUST ship one with a proper circuit with no cross compatibility
(Try to use U11 dongle on the HTC 10, btw 10 beats U11 in audio since the AMP
is not powerful enough vs the 10)

c - BT and Wireless ? they existed since Nokia and work the same, Perhaps the
LDAC and APTX but they need licensing and even with 3.5mm jack wireless works
the same, Waterproofing also exists the same, Note 8 is a perfect answer it
has a full silo for S-Pen + an always on Home button like apple's taptic
gimmick and retains IP68 and has multiple Biometric security with the 3.5mm
port under water with S-Pen removed too. LG v30 does, v20 did with HiFi Audio.
AND the batteries go dead in these wireless sets, make drain more and
eventually go to garbage with the planned obsolescence device of yours. Where
as normal 3.5mm ones last until they die

d - High quality Audio is existing, HiFi gear is widely available without any
complications, in the end everyone uses it, The wear and tear resistance is
higher on the jack vs the USB C which often breaks and the 2 degree
possibility vs the 360 degree beats this greedy ________decision of Apple,
Plus the wea

So I don't see any advantage plus Unfortunately due to the stupid CEOs who is
following the blind lead of Apple, M$ is shifted to Apple type marketing, UWP
going against .exe Win32 apps, idk why all companies are obsessed with this
company Apple while their whole ecosystem is limited and not deployed across
multiple HW, for eg - Windows works in Govt, Military and critical mission
control systems, Apple can't match that but unfortunately the people just
chose form over function and made Apple that huge, look where are we. Soon the
eSIM will come in the iPhones (I called it first) & planned obsolescence push
further, Draconian controls, How much further you will bend, we said okay to
the dedicated video ports to wireless, IR blasters, Now removable batteries
also gone and now next is this ?? Question yourselves to believe what they say
or the real facts which base on liberty and choice, an essential aspect for
humans.

[https://www.androidauthority.com/was-ditching-the-
headphone-...](https://www.androidauthority.com/was-ditching-the-headphone-
jack-a-good-idea-800101/)

49% of the wireless market share in US by Apple. See how money is flowing.

[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/21/11991302/i...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/21/11991302/iphone-
no-headphone-jack-user-hostile-stupid)

[https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-2-headphon...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-2-headphone-
jack-bluetooth-walled-garden)

------
iamaelephant
My first-generation Pixel shit the bed after 11 months and Google and my
retailer refuse to rectify the problem. Never again.

------
symlinkk
Is Apple the only company that can reliably build quality electronics?

~~~
jdavis703
Let's wait and see if Apple has similar issues when the iPhone X comes out. We
already know they're facing supply chain issues, perhaps the bottleneck is due
to low yield on the OLED component.

Source:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-10-23/apple-l...](https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-10-23/apple-
losing-its-supply-chain-mojo-is-a-major-threat)

~~~
kartD
Not really, Apple is sourcing exclusively from Samsung based on rumors. It's
the FaceID module production that's causing supply constraints.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
One of their antenna vendors was/is having issues also.

