
PepsiCo's CEO Indra Nooyi Was Right. Now What? - doppp
http://fortune.com/2015/06/05/pepsico-ceo-indra-nooyi/
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marcusgarvey
>“The consumer has turned the definition [of healthy] upside down,” she says.
“If it is non-GMO, natural, or organic, but high in sodium and high in sugar
and fat, it’s okay.”

True and important to note when you're grocery shopping. Organic, natural,
non-GMO do not mean that thing you're holding in your hand is actually good
for you.

~~~
jkestner
I wish someone would start a no-added-sugar movement. I have a sweet tooth,
but the amount of sugar added to even fruit products disgusts me. Dried mango
without sugar costs 2x. Raisin bran does not need more sugar. That's the point
of the raisins! I like creamer in my coffee, but I cut it with milk.

~~~
goodJobWalrus
Since you mentioned dried fruit twice, I thought you might find interesting
that WHO recommends counting dried fruit as added sugar (also honey and
natural syrups, such as maple, in addition to what we usually count as added
sugar).

~~~
gumby
My favorite (== most hated) example of this was some soy milk I saw at whole
foods. In big letters on the front it said "NO ADDED SUGAR!". Flip the box
around and the #2 ingredient was "dehydrated cane juice."

It's no surprise even the CEO of whole foods says most of the stuff they sell
is crap. I used to shop at their original two stores in Austin before they
decided to expand and they sold a very different class of product.

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AlbertoGP
tl;dr: she's been introducing slightly healthier products and sales have
stoppend falling.

~~~
dylanjermiah
Thank you.

I can't put my finger on it but the first 1/4th of the article through me off.

~~~
deelowe
Is there a term for this kind of "journalism?" I've heard it described before
as being journalism for journalists or that the journalists have to fill a
certain amount of space, so simple articles become wordy and tedious.

I see it all the time and hate it, but don't know how to describe it.

~~~
baconner
Yes, I believe the term is "churnalism." Stories which are primarily PR barely
disguised. PR reps pitch stories to journalists and get them curated access to
write a story. Lazy journalists go along needing to churn out stories
regularly.

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golergka
Surprise: capitalism actually works and makes companies follow consumer
wishes. If consumers actually vote for these wishes with their wallets, of
course.

~~~
manishsharan
Pardon me , but you seem have to got the terms "free market economy" and
"capitalism" mixed up. Free market economy and capitalism may be entwined but
they mean very different things and they cannot be used as synonyms of each
other.

~~~
JesperRavn
They are synonyms. The field of economics (the only field that could
legitimately claim to give exact definitions to these terms) uses them
interchangeably, and tends not to care about classification or exact verbal
definitions, but rather focuses on the implications of various mathematical
models.

If there is ambiguity in a verbal definition, it can be clarified by writing
down a mathematical model, not by endless debates about the meaning of words
or classification of the economies of different nations.

~~~
cromulent
My experience of economics as a social science is the opposite - that it does
not relate specifically to mathematical models. For example, the distinction
between a mixed economy and pure capitalism is very clear.

~~~
JesperRavn
In my experience (Economics PhD) the term "command economy" is used to
describe a theoretical extreme where the government dictates all consumption
and production decisions, while "free market", unqualified, refers to the
situation where the government only enforces property rights.

"Pure capitalism" would be a synonym for "free market" although it's rarely
used academically, I guess because the term capitalism is a lot less
descriptive that "free market".

Terms like "mixed economy" just refer to somewhere in between these two
extremes.

As I said, economists are not particularly interested in giving things
accurate names, or classifying them. They mighty do this occasionally, as is
necessary especially when communicating with people outside the field, but the
field itself relies mainly on mathematical models, not sociological
categories. That is why I feel the need to correct someone who, speaking with
an authoritative tone, claims to know that "free market" and "capitalism" have
precise and different meanings.

~~~
cromulent
Hmm... "the field itself relies mainly on mathematical models, not
sociological categories" \- I'll have to disagree. Especially with behavioural
economics. I also disagree that free markets are the same thing as capitalism,
as does Benjamin Tucker.

~~~
JesperRavn
_> I also disagree that free markets are the same thing as capitalism, as does
Benjamin Tucker._

Please never phrase your opinion like this ever again. Whatever interest I had
in knowing what Benjamin Tucker said about this issue, I've lost due to your
smugly phrased sentence.

~~~
cromulent
I guess you are not open to more information about economics then. You may be
surprised on how smug and condescending your own comments appear :)

~~~
JesperRavn
I would be more than happy to hear more information, if only you would provide
some. I have no idea who Benjamin Tucker was and how he is relevant.

Even though I claim to speak with authority because of my PhD, I don't
consider that condescending or smug, and a person is free to judge that my
education is worthless if they like. But throwing out names of very obscure
people in place of an actual argument is objectively smug and rude.

~~~
cromulent
You are now making me laugh :D

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johnohara
It's breathtaking to consider the amount of shelf-space that Pepsi products
occupy. Pepsi, Frito-Lay, Doritos, Tostitos, Gatorade, Aquafina, Tropicana,
Quaker Oats, not to mention Lipton, 7-Up, Mountain Dew and Naked. It's a
planet with its own gravity and atmosphere.

It takes a special perspective to sell $66B worth of product while blaming
consumers for their inability to discern healthy food.

On the plus side tho', their production requirements oftentimes bring state-
of-the-art processing facilities to areas lacking in, or in desperate need of,
clean water and filtration. Parts of India come to mind.

------
nameiscarl
> major activist investor: Nelson Peltz

I wish the press would do the responsible thing and use the proper words for
those things: "corporate raiders".

Giving into establishment's newspeak is not doing anyone a favor. And let
questionable people do the toxic thing they do (destroying companies for his
own interest) while feeling good about themselves.

For now, I chose to keep away from any media that uses those lying words (such
the ones one would use to cover up for torture, bombings, etc).

Noted: Fortune is in the no read list.

------
Nano2rad
Finding faults just to show the authority just like rhetorical questions.
Rectification of those "insignificant infractions" need not make the company
or product better

------
Eric_WVGG
I first learned about Nooyl after reading this PA comic trilogy back in '11
[http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/01/03](http://www.penny-
arcade.com/comic/2011/01/03)

…so nice to hear that her cult is still working out

~~~
gumby
That comic is right on. I remember being shocked when I met the lead engineer
on Pringles. He was understandably quite proud of the engineering problems
they'd solved.

I shouldn't have been shocked. He is a food engineer. Sounded like a joke
title, but the supermarket shelves have more engineering in them as the
shelves of Best Buy.

I threw in the towel and pretty much buy raw food, bread from bakeries that
can't afford all the soy supplements etc. The manufactured stuff I guy (bread,
butter etc) costs a lot more because the labor content of the food is higher.
Luckily I can afford it.

I am morally unclear on the value of the engineered food. On one hand it's
true, we have calories and vitamins, fibre etc in the hands of people who in
an earlier age couldn't afford it. On the other hand the nutritional value
available to poorer people is still lower than the wealthy.

------
ars
I wonder about this article. They say people are buying less orange juice
because of the sugar.

But I think they are buying less because it's so crazy expensive. I know
that's why I stopped.

~~~
agumonkey
I tried to go from Sodas to processed <fruit> juice, but doctors explained
that the sugar content was similar. I then tried to by raw oranges but
couldn't find anything worth eating. Acid like a lemon, crooked, dry almost
solid, skin ripping the fruit apart ... Nothing like my memories when I could
peel an orange and enjoy the delicious slices one by one.

To get 'normal' oranges I had to seek for expensive packages.

~~~
gboss
Don't give up on oranges! There are many different varieties out there and you
may not have found one you like yet. Also tangelos can be sweeter. While
oranges are usually sold year round in grocery stores, they actually have a
harvest season. In North America oranges are in season November through May. I
use find the best oranges around December to February. Valencia oranges are
best for juicing rather than eating and navel oranges are easiest to peel. A
good orange is hard to beat!

~~~
agumonkey
I love orange, and almost anything edible. I suspect current production
strategy to lower quality drastically in exchange for lifespan and other
logistic qualities.

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dubbel
"Do you want to sell sugared water for the rest of your life?" \- looks like
Indra Nooyi doesn't.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
They said healthier, not healthy. Most "healthier alternatives" are still
"sugared water" they are just lower in sugar and higher in artificial
flavorants than the typical sodas (Dr. P, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc).

Honestly I really want to see a push to lower acidity in drinks. They
seriously should start putting that on the bottle and talking about it. Acid
drinks are a major health crisis that nobody talks about.

~~~
jessaustin
Acidity is bad for teeth, particularly in locations without fluoridated
municipal water. Is acidity implicated in any other health problems?

~~~
thomas943
I don't know about acidity, but fluoride has been implicated in many health
problems. Here's a list of peer reviewed studies:
[http://fluoridealert.org/studytracker/?effect=&type=reviews&...](http://fluoridealert.org/studytracker/?effect=&type=reviews&start_year=&end_year=&show=10&fulltext=&fantranslation=)

~~~
jschwartzi
In spite of that, it's still nice to not have had any dental fillings or major
dental work by the time I turn 30. This will be different from both of my
parents. I think I'm happy to trade a minor increase in some other risks for
the ability to eat without pain.

~~~
juliangregorian
Cool anecdote, but you know what would be even better? If we had a choice.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
You do have a choice. If fluoride scares you so much, stop brushing your teeth
and buy a water filter.

Oh, and eat a diet that has no carbohydrates in it.

~~~
juliangregorian
Cute answer, but I, along with the entire non-toddler population, don't ingest
toothpaste. HN's propensity for "don't like it? Just buy this gadget/start
your own company/move to Somalia"-style rhetoric also makes an appearance.

I have no idea what you meant with the carbohydrate comment if you wouldn't
mind explaining.

Oh and thanks for the down vote, but this isn't reddit.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> Cute answer, but I, along with the entire non-toddler population, don't
> ingest toothpaste.

You _do_ ingest toothpaste, albeit only small amounts. Much like you ingest
mouthwash, you just try to keep it to a minimum.

> HN's propensity for "don't like it? Just buy this gadget/start your own
> company/move to Somalia"-style rhetoric also makes an appearance.

What else can I suggest? In a democratic society that is your choice. You can
fight to change the law, or you can work around it.

> I have no idea what you meant with the carbohydrate comment if you wouldn't
> mind explaining.

Since humans developed agriculture and started consuming large amounts of
carbohydrates, they have experienced tooth decay. Fluoride is necessary to
prevent it.

> Oh and thanks for the down vote, but this isn't reddit.

This discussion is completely off-topic and your comments are unhelpful. A
downvote is justifiable.

~~~
juliangregorian
> In a democratic society that is your choice. You can fight to change the
> law, or you can work around it.

Ridiculous. First, neither of us live in a democracy. There was no vote where
the general populace elected to receive low doses of toxic minerals in our
drinking water. Rather cabals of lobbyists persuaded municipal officials to
add it under the guise of it being a good thing. Which has yet to be
statistically demonstrated.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> Ridiculous. First, neither of us live in a democracy.

You don't know where I live! Though I'd agree that capitalist countries are
not very democratic, at least not mine and the United States.

> There was no vote where the general populace elected to receive low doses of
> toxic minerals in our drinking water.

It varies by country.

"Toxic minerals" is an amusing statement given that virtually all substances
are toxic _in the correct dose_. As someone else pointed out, sola dosis facit
venenum: the dose makes the poison.

~~~
juliangregorian
It's trivial to find out you live in Scotland.

Your statement about toxicity is quite valid, nevertheless you can remove the
word toxic and my point still stands.

I would love to know of the country that democratically elected to receive
fluoride in their water.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> It's trivial to find out you live in Scotland.

Yeah, I'd just assumed from the way you worded that, that you didn't know
where I lived. My bad.

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janj
I don't think there's much question that this company is harmful to societies
and individuals around the world. Does it make sense for people other than
shareholders to admire this person?

