
George Lucas Can’t Give a $1.5B Museum Away - rafaelc
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-01-03/george-lucas-can-t-give-his-1-5-billion-museum-away
======
jessaustin
Even a really rich dude can't expect to get the single best public site in a
large metropolitan area to build a monument to himself. I don't think the
goofy tasteless art collection referenced in TFA is even a consideration;
Lucas will die eventually and then they can start hanging decent art. If he
had picked a smaller city, or a major university, or a less valuable site in
the cities he's targeted, the project would have been started already.
Instead, he has chosen rare open coastal land in the busiest most valuable
neighborhoods of top-tier cities. If he had gotten either of the first two
sites, the nation would soon have been covered with similarly pointless
museums bearing the names of our silliest billionaires. Thank goodness, those
who made these decisions have both taste and integrity.

~~~
redahs
> Even a really rich dude can't expect to get the single best public site in a
> large metropolitan area to build a monument to himself.

If he is willing to pay an extremely high annual property tax on the
unimproved value of the land he would be excluding others from using, and let
the city seize and auction off the land in the event of non-payment, then I
don't see why not.

The issue is that he is probably not willing to do that, and is probably
trying to get the land without paying property tax. From the article:

> On October 2015 the city and the Lucas museum signed a 99-year lease in
> exchange for $10.

~~~
jessaustin
Good for you, for proposing a compromise, but even that seems open to abuse.
After all the government could just _sell_ the land. If it's too sensitively
located to sell, any lease, even an initially expensive one like that you
propose, should come with strict requirements for land use.

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forkandwait
Seems like part of the problem is that he insists that the museum be located
some of most highly prized real estate in the entire world. Of course it would
be hard to get it built on Crissy Field! Duh. Why not Columbus Circle NYC or
Trafalgar Square or the Champs Elysee? Kind of stupid to even ask.

I think it would be a great museum for undeveloped land in Tacoma or Oakland,
though.

~~~
beatboxrevival
It wasn't going to take over any new space in Crissy Field, it was proposed to
take the spot of Sports Basement in the Presidio. I'd much rather have a
museum than a discount sports store in that location. Instead, in true NIMBY
fashion, we discuss how ugly the planned architecture was.

~~~
Inconel
As a former SF resident who could never afford to live there now, in no small
part due to the onerous constraints the city puts on housing development, and
who generally believes that you should be able to build anything you want with
minimal red tape as long as it falls within reasonable zoning restrictions, I
don't think the opposition to the Lucas Museum is a good example of NIMBYism.

We aren't talking about any old plot of land here. This is land that is held
in trust for the public. It certainly didn't help that the proposed design for
the museum was steeped in the kind of faux nostalgia one would expect of
Lucas. The first time I saw the design I thought I was looking at a new
Westfield mall development in San Jose.

In HS I ran cross country and we would sometimes meet up at that location for
our Presidio runs. You can count me among those that would rather have a
discount sports store at that location rather than a permanent monument to an
out of touch billionaire's ego.

~~~
beatboxrevival
Biases based on personal experiences are one of the core tenets of NIBMYism.
It's not about what's better for you, it's what's better for the community at
large. I could care less about George Lucas and his art. With that said,
culturally and economically a Star Wars Museum will have undeniable wide-
reaching impacts on this city. Sports Basement will never have that impact.
Nor will a museum change the fact that the Presidio and Crissy Field will
remain a hub for fitness activities.

~~~
Inconel
I completely agree and I included the comment about preferring a discount
sports store over this particular museum as a personal anecdote, not as a
reason to oppose development. The city certainly shouldn't base its decision
on the proposal to suit my particular desires, particularly as I no longer
live there. And to clarify, I would actually love to visit a museum devoted to
American Illustrators.

Again, I'm also very much against much of the building review process I see on
display in SF, especially as it relates to things like architectural review.
Even historic preservation, while well meaning, is often misused in SF to
block development. Part of the reason that SF is so expensive to build in is a
result of the permitting process where neighbors can lodge complaints to hold
up development even in cases were the proposed building falls completely
within the normal zoning guidelines. With very few exceptions I completely
disagree with architectural/design based aesthetic building reviews and
generally view most zoning rules as a way to exclude poor people from certain
neighborhoods, or increasingly, entire cities.

However, in the case of a museum being situated on exceedingly rare open
public space, I can make an exception to my dislike of architectural review.
This is public land being gifted here, I think the citizens of the city have a
right to have their opinion heard on whether or not the proposed building's
design conforms to their desire for the site. SF has no shortage of good
examples of crazy NIMBYs but I still don't feel like this is a good example of
NIMBYism when the development is situated on public lands that are
specifically held in trust for the community.

------
tikhonj
Did I misunderstand, or was the argument in Chicago about _replacing a parking
lot_? I mean, I see how it would change the lake's shoreline to have a big
building there, but it would be replacing a _parking lot_ —pretty much the
least valuable use of prime real estate short of warehouses or an industrial
park. A bleak expanse full of cars is at least as much an eyesore as a blob of
modern architecture. (And the renderings of the museum in the article actually
look quite elegant in my eyes, but I'm not hostile to modern architecture in
the first place...)

More generally, we really waste _a ton_ of great real estate on open-air
parking lots, even in really expensive markets like SF. Multistory car parks
are one thing, but there are single-story lots all over the place, like within
a block of SF's piers. The fact that that's economical is either an indictment
of local zoning ordinances or our unhealthy overdependence on cars. Or both!

Anyhow, Treasure Island actually sounds like a wonderful location for the
museum—and the neighborhood itself would benefit too. I rather hope that works
out, and I'll probably visit it if it does, even though I'm not a particular
fan of that strain of artwork.

~~~
rayiner
It's the opportunity cost. That parking lot is going to go--the question is
what's the best use of that (now) prime land? An ewok museum is not it.

Far be it for me to tell someone what to do with his money, but I was just in
Pittsburgh visiting the city's fantastic museums bankrolled by Carnegie money.
Carnegie didn't build a museum in service of his own ego, he left something
that could become a central part of the city's experience.

~~~
ghaff
It's not an "ewok museum." I'll refrain from what I would normally append to
that sentence given HN guidelines. You may not care much for American
Illustrators but many do.

~~~
greedo
500K items from the Prequels? With that many Jar Jar mannequins, there won't
be any room for ewoks!

------
justinator
Funny, Denver recently created a whole museum for the Clyfford Still
collection. The work was given to any city who would put up the funds for the
museum itself. This seems like a better deal (I'm not a fan of Clyfford Still,
so I'm less than enthusiastic over the museum)

You could start it off as a touring exhibit, like they're doing for the Star
Wars costumes (currently at the Denver Art Museum). This also worked for the
controversial Bible Museum, which is is now (privately) in D.C.

One of the problems of this idea may be, what do you do about new exhibits?

Maybe all those comic books are just... junk and don't need a permanent place
to be displayed in an expensive city. Maybe things like the Rockwell paintings
can go to the Rockwell Museum that already exists. Or at least the majority of
the collection can be easily digitized, and available to all via The Internet
Archive. How about $1.5 billion to TIA, as well as all these "artifacts"

How about, sell off all the originals, and give the money to charity.

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1024core
Why can't he just buy some land and put it there?? Why does it _have_ to be
some public open space, of which we have little left in SF anyways??

Edited: For example, why not buy one (or two) of these piers, and put a giant
Enterprise-shaped museum there?
[https://goo.gl/maps/FVWFuPvgi292](https://goo.gl/maps/FVWFuPvgi292)

~~~
anigbrowl
It's not the land, it's the planning permission. It's not like you can do
anything you want on your own piece of land in a city. Cities also want
amenities that bring tourism and set aside lands for projects like this.

~~~
1024core
The holdup here (as well in Chicago and LA, from what I've read) has always
been his desire to get free land. If he had the land, I don't think it'd be
difficult for him to get permission to put up his mausoleum, I mean, museum.

~~~
anigbrowl
Maybe, but have you ever sat in on contentious planning meetings? IT's a great
way to undermine any lingering faith in democracy you had :-(

------
godson_drafty
I wish we legally purchase a copy of the original theatrical release of
episodes 4-6.

~~~
vonzeppelin
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-Trilogy-VHS-1992-3-Tape-
Se...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-Trilogy-VHS-1992-3-Tape-Set-
Unaltered-Original-Theatrical-
Trilogy-/222367520350?hash=item33c623165e:g:r88AAOSw44BYbTf6)

~~~
agumonkey
Ahh, the glorious FOX SET.

------
afiler
«“It’s an epic act of generosity and altruism,” says Don Bacigalupi, the
museum effort’s president. “George Lucas, as with any person of great
resources and great success, could choose to do whatever he wants to do with
his resources, and he has chosen to give an extraordinary gift to the people
of a city and the world.”»

There's an attitude here that's a bit... off-putting.

------
argonaut
I hear a lot of people claiming this is the "best public site in a large metro
area," "highly prized real estate in the entire world."

This is what the museum would replace:
[https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8035885,-122.4592349,3a,75y,...](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8035885,-122.4592349,3a,75y,180.86h,80.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOloEZqIfkByrN_-
zrtJriw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DOloEZqIfkByrN_-
zrtJriw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D100.82111%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)

The view that might be obscured:
[https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8019879,-122.4587395,3a,75y,...](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8019879,-122.4587395,3a,75y,329.06h,83.35t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1s0-_RgHQOMV9ewn2KFui2NQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i46)

~~~
Sanddancer
This slide show has its proposed design and the other ones

[http://sf.curbed.com/2013/9/18/10196782/final-design-
proposa...](http://sf.curbed.com/2013/9/18/10196782/final-design-proposals-
revealed-for-presidio-commissary-site)

Lucas' building was trading a generic store for a generic building that looked
more at home housing sleezy mortgage brokers than to be a world-class museum.

~~~
argonaut
That's really your personal opinion. I'm honestly not going to solicit
artistic opinion on Hacker News. He hired a world class architect.

------
kqr2
For those in the London area, there is a Star Wars exhibition which features
200 original costumes, props, models, and pieces of artwork from Lucasfilm
Archives.

[http://www.starwarsidentities.com/](http://www.starwarsidentities.com/)

------
Sanddancer
One of the big pieces missing here is a picture of what the original design
for the Lucas Museum was. Articles elsewhere [1] show just how generic the
original plan was. His half-assed mission revival idea snatched defeat from
the jaws of victory by being strikingly bland.

[1] [http://sf.curbed.com/2016/10/27/13440012/lucas-museum-
render...](http://sf.curbed.com/2016/10/27/13440012/lucas-museum-renderings-
la-treasure-island)

~~~
cfmcdonald
The original building looks by far the best to me. The others look silly.

------
ghaff
This is so annoying to me. I love Maxfield Parrish's work, as well as other
American illustrators, and this would be a great addition to any city. Perhaps
I'm biased but I just have a lot of trouble understanding the objections that
have derailed a couple of the past proposals.

~~~
bobsky
From the outside it looks like a superb deal, but issues are in the details.
Most notably, the Museum is being proposed on PUBLIC land and thus the
conflict in meeting the requirements.

As quoted in the article from Presidio Trust board member:

“If it’s your land, you can do pretty much what you want,” Bechtle says. “But
with public land, there is just a higher level of scrutiny.”

The trust developed design guidelines for the site. The building could be no
higher than 45 feet; as for looks, the trust didn’t want a building that
replicated an old-fashioned architectural style...

...in short Lucas proposal didn't meet the guidelines and he didn't want to
compromise.

Personally, I think the museum is a fantastic deal and any city would be
blessed with the gift -- still hoping SF & Lucas find a mutual agreement (one
of which not be exclusive to Lucas items/curation).

~~~
ghaff
That's fair enough. On the other hand, I never really understood the
objections in Chicago.

Yes, Lucas wants to create a monument. Building it in the middle of nowhere
where no one will visit doesn't serve that purpose, but then it doesn't really
serve the public interest either. I do hope that some reasonable accommodation
can be arrived at in a location that will give many people access to the art.

~~~
massysett
If it's worth visiting, people will go even if it is in the middle of nowhere.
Lots of places in the middle of nowhere off highways get visitors--think of
outlet malls and theme parks. If it's filled with Star Wars stuff, those fans
will trek out to see it. Lucas's issue is that he wants to build a monument to
himself in a prominent place. This isn't about making his art available. It's
about him building an edifice to glorify himself.

Some folks have to do great things to get monuments built (Lincoln). Others
donate money and let others have a say in what edifice gets built (Smithson,
Carnegie, Mellon). Still others build their own edifices but buy the land on
the open market (Trump, the Sears Tower). Lucas wants to build his own edifice
on prominent public land, all while retaining complete control for himself.
That's his problem.

------
WalterBright
If I had billions and wanted to leave a legacy, I'd establish a nature
preserve or fund a space telescope. Making a building for my comic book
collection seems pretty low on the list.

~~~
jessaustin
Good ideas! Still, they're sort of medium-term, aren't they? Thing big! It
seems like Elon Musk is making the smartest long-term investments in eternal
monuments to himself.

~~~
WalterBright
Elon Musk has a shot at being one of the greatest men in history.

~~~
jessaustin
I agree with you, although I guess I'm just asking to get whacked by the
jealous haters' downvote brigade too.

------
haberman
> “As a popular artist, I hit the same chord with people that Rockwell hit,
> that Michelangelo hit, that the people who painted on caves in France hit,”

That would be a more compelling argument if he could hit that chord reliably.
Instead the original Star Wars trilogy looks like a fluke of good luck when
put in the context of his other work. Others are much more successful carrying
on his universe than he is.

------
brian-armstrong
Why not break it into parts and build them in thematically appropriate
locations? You could have a little one in Nevada (Tattooine) and another in
Antarctica (Hoth) and Florida (Dagobah). I think this would be more
appropriate and more well received.

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dekhn
The problem starts and ends with Lucas's attitude. Until that changes, nothing
is going to happen.

~~~
Gargoyle
There's attitude enough on all sides here, that's pretty clear to me as a
disinterested outsider.

------
eridius
Can we please cancel the plans for the new stadium (in SF) and just build the
museum there?

------
cpncrunch
Why doesn't he just build it at his ranch?

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riazrizvi
Star Wars lost Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Original Screenplay to
Annie Hall by Woody Allen. Given how significant Star Wars was to our culture,
I think it was a mistake on the part of the Academy.

~~~
forkandwait
In retrospect, sure, but Annie Hall is a really really important movie as
well.

~~~
tptacek
Also a _better_ movie. The Academy Awards aren't a measure of cultural impact.

~~~
riazrizvi
The basis of this opinion is ... italics?

~~~
tptacek
Which opinion are you challenging, that the Oscars should be a metric of
cultural impact, or that Annie Hall is better than Star Wars?

------
h4nkoslo
My other favorite George Lucas property development anecdote is that when
Marin County refused to allow him to expand the Skywalker Ranch, he threatened
to deploy weaponized "low-income" (80% of median) housing against his uber
progressive neighbors.

Truly, real estate brings out the worst in man.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2015/04/1...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2015/04/17/george-lucas-wants-to-build-affordable-housing-on-his-land-
because-weve-got-enough-millionaires/?utm_term=.8557ea4c7894)

~~~
grardb
> Income requirements could be set so eligible residents had to make less than
> 80 percent of the area’s median income, the paper reported. The median
> household income for Marin County is $90,839

> “We got letters saying, ‘You guys are going to get what you deserve. You’re
> going to bring drug dealers, all this crime and lowlife in here,’”

This, along with the labeling of people living in a household making [$90k*80%
= $72k] as "low income," makes it incredibly difficult for me to read this
with a straight face.

~~~
whyenot
> [$90k _80% = $72k] as "low income," makes it incredibly difficult for me to
> read this with a straight face.

A _household* making $72k in Marin County could very easily spend half their
income or more on rent (depending on the size of the household and the
dwelling they need) and likely would be living paycheck to paycheck. That's
life for many in the Bay Area.

------
cmurf
Here's a free dinner! It consists of deep fried beef, topped with fresh crab,
and nuts.

That is certainly quite unique, but can we have some substitutions? Quite a
few people are vegetarian, and have nut or seafood allergies.

Ingrates!

