
Magnasanti: The Largest and Most Terrifying SimCity (2010) - riboflavin
https://rumorsontheinternets.org/2010/10/14/magnasanti-the-largest-and-most-terrifying-simcity/
======
grawprog
Not to anywhere near the level of this but i've been playing a map on city
skylines where i've been trying to make it as dystopian as possible, though at
first I was just trying to model my city, the sad thing is, on a superficial
level, it still resembles it.

Industrial areas lined with low income housing. A whole neighbourhood with
schools next to oil refineries, a prison island that receives its drinking
water from the sewage run off of the rest of the city, I created roads and
bridges everywhere, there's several 'nice' areas along the non polluted areas
of water with large mansions, there's a big bustling urban center full of
office buildings and highrises not far away from squat, squalid apartments
underneath highway overpasses, schools next to landfills, a lack of hospitals
and fire departments, many police departments, i've intentionally clearcut as
much of the forest surrounding the city as possible, the next step was to
create a small gated community out away from the city, for those with money
who can't handle the horrid amounts of traffic and infrastructure...

I may have also accidently poisoned the whole city briefly when trying to
build the prison island and killed 30% of the people there, but things have
been looking up, population growth is finally starting to rise again, though
the health of the population is questionable.

~~~
rightbyte
Sim City 3000 might be the pinnacle of "Sim Cities" when it comes to the
feeling of making a big scary city.

I would rather play Skylines than 3000 today due to nice feeling and the
roads, but the limit that 6 squares depth from the road is as far as housing
will "grow" and that you can't make deep neighborhoods or more angled zones,
is a sour thumb for what would otherwise be a perfect game. 3000 neighborhoods
felt deep and the isometric view didn't make me sad about not doing angled
zones.

If Skylines could make roads free of the square course why not the buildings
that seem to have to be orthogonal to the tangent of the road.

~~~
Lammy
Sim City 3000 is my favorite too for all the same reasons and I really wish
SC3U shipped with multiplayer like the leftovers suggest it would have:
[https://tcrf.net/SimCity_3000_Unlimited/Unused_Multiplayer_T...](https://tcrf.net/SimCity_3000_Unlimited/Unused_Multiplayer_Text)

~~~
ehnto
Looks like the commands for an IRC client, I wonder if they were intending an
in-game community based on IRC?

I'm not sure it indicates actual multiplayer capabilities, or just the
intention. It just looks like someone dropped an IRC client library into the
repo at some point.

Totally speculation of course, but maybe even just a dev tool in the repo that
got sent around to different devs/studios so that they could communicate.
Slack being IRC for work wasn't a new concept after all.

~~~
Lammy
Compare to
[https://simcity.fandom.com/wiki/SimCity_2000:_Network_Editio...](https://simcity.fandom.com/wiki/SimCity_2000:_Network_Edition)
for the precedent

~~~
rightbyte
Interesting.

"The server does not automatically pause when all players are logged out."

So you were supposed to like log in for 30 min per day and play a little and
then wait for tomorrow with the game server running? Seems like a Minecrafty
way of playing. It would probably be fun for some IT-department to have an
instance but it feels very niche.

~~~
ehnto
It used to be pretty normal for someone in a friends group to run "the server"
I think, for whatever game it may have been. Often just from a PC on their
home network. I don't think it would have been a stretch, but it would have
definitely been niche.

------
danbolt
I think it's important to remember that a "system" in a video game is a work
of art just like the game itself. The systems, in a lot of ways, reflect the
ideas and thoughts of the authors of that game. Magnasati's highlights and
flaws help illustrate that thinking, or what tax rates are best for doing well
in the game.

An example that comes to mind is Factorio, where solar panels are more tricky
to operate than generators, but minimize conflict with the ingame fauna.
Earlier versions of Rimworld were programmed to have men be either gay or
straight, but women to be bisexual. I think both of those gameplay mechanics
illustrate (or at least point to) the author(s) idea about the world.

~~~
dragontamer
> I think both of those gameplay mechanics illustrate (or at least point to)
> the author(s) idea about the world.

For good games, I don't think so. The #1 concern of any video game is "is it
fun??".

Case in point: Factorio oil is infinite and a renewable resource (pumpjacks
never run out). This isn't there because of some preconceived notion of
infinite oil. This mechanic exists because planting new pumpjacks is far more
annoying than planting iron mines / coal mines. In fact, pumpjacks are
basically the only endgame mine that cannot be automated with blueprints.

As such, its best to have pumpjacks pump infinite oil for the rest of time.
Because it'd be too an annoying of a game if oil ran out.

\----------

In the case of Factorio solar vs nuclear vs coal: the game developer made them
different enough to make the difference fun to think about and fun to play
with. But I don't believe it necessarily reflects upon the political opinion
of the creator.

~~~
Uehreka
Huh? Pumpjacks give less oil over time. They never really run out, but
eventually you’ll stop running regular trains to an oil depot because your
reservoir tanks take hours to fill. Unless you have a small base and dozens of
oil fields, you could never run on depleted fields alone, and thus you’re
constantly needing to expand and seek out more oil fields (just like the other
resource types) mimicking the way that maintaining fossil fuel based industry
requires continuous petroleum exploration.

~~~
dragontamer
> They never really run out, but eventually you’ll stop running regular trains
> to an oil depot because your reservoir tanks take hours to fill.

Speed beacons + Speed Modules + Infinite Productivity gets you pretty far.

> Pumpjacks give less oil over time.

Back in 0.13, they dropped to 0.1 oil/second. Today, this minimum has been
grossly buffed, greatly reducing the number of depleted pumpjacks you need in
endgame. The output is also improved by infinite-productivity research,
increasing their output the longer your megabase runs.

There's also Coal Liquefaction, which came a few years after 0.13. That also
reduces the need to find new pumpjacks (and again: because coal mines use
electric mines, its possible to automate mines with blueprints).

So Coal runs out, but is far easier + automatic to expand compared to oil. So
you just turn your coal into oil products.

------
tunesmith
I think we can often get sucked into optimizing our life to limit the
possibility of negative surprises - predictable reliable employment, reliable
transportation, go-to meals, healthy habits that work for us - and then we can
often end up in a reality where things are stable but potentially boring or
soul-crushing. That's what the essay reminded me of - even if the city were
ruthlessly efficient but with a nice park and bodega and deli in walking
distance, it could still feel similarly soul-crushing. So I've been trying to
think more about how to leave more room in life for "positive surprise" but
that's kind of a difficult thing to optimize for. I'm open to ideas anyway!

~~~
dflock
Go new places, explore! Doesn't have to cost money or be a big deal - just
your neighbourhood/area/town on foot or bike.

Or maybe Micro Adventures: [https://alastairhumphreys.com/microadventures-
landing/](https://alastairhumphreys.com/microadventures-landing/)

------
oefrha
(2010). I distinctly remember the discussion from two years ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16933265](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16933265)

~~~
jyriand
Same here. Can’t really forget the city once you’ve seen it.

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ghastmaster
The image reminds me of Guangzhou, China. I recently looked at google earth
images of Guangzhou. I then looked at images of New York City. It is
incredible to me that we in the U.S. think of New York City as a sprawling
metropolis when not far from the city center it is mostly single family homes
on plots of land. Whereas Guangzhou has many more high rise buildings for
miles and miles. Get the ruler in Google Earth and check it out.

~~~
kyuudou
How many of those are actually occupied?

~~~
chii
it's a false narrative that these cities are not occupied - i think you'll
find that the CCP plans for decades, and the population growth of china will
fill those apartments in time.

~~~
dragonwriter
That explains that there are plans for future occupation, but does not support
the claim that it is a false narrative that they _are_ unoccupied.

~~~
chii
> does not support the claim that it is a false narrative that they are
> unoccupied.

no the false narrative was that they will remain unoccupied and is just built
as a form of economic stimulus.

------
WarOnPrivacy
Alphaville (circa 2000) forever rules as sim-anarchy's crowning achievement.
Without moderation it quickly became saturated with the worst crimes people
can come up with.

The Alphaville Herald was dedicated to it; the blog continued on for years,
after the sim was shut down. This Salon article references the mag
[https://web.archive.org/web/20040217030353/http://www.salon....](https://web.archive.org/web/20040217030353/http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/12/12/sims_online_newspaper/index_np.html)

Alphaville is one of my favorite pieces of internet history but it wasn't ever
really documented. It's hard to find anything about it now.

~~~
burkaman
I've never heard of it before, but the Alphaville Herald and all of its
archives are still online:
[http://alphavilleherald.com/archives](http://alphavilleherald.com/archives)

~~~
WarOnPrivacy
Nice. Thanks!

------
29athrowaway
There are no transportation issues because there is nowhere to go because
everywhere is the same.

------
alickz
Reminds of the person who played a single Civ II match for 10 years.

IIRC it ended with the Celts, Vikings, and Sioux facing off in thermonuclear
war in the year 3991.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uxpil/ive_been_play...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uxpil/ive_been_playing_the_same_game_of_civilization_ii/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/theeternalwar/comments/uyswv/here_i...](https://www.reddit.com/r/theeternalwar/comments/uyswv/here_it_is/)

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three_seagrass
Is this using the SC erasing exploit?

There's a bug that lets you delete a building tile but keep the building there
in memory, meaning you can build over it but have all the same pops/crime/etc.

Lots of megopolis SC maps use this exploit.

~~~
logicprog
He says in the video that he uses no cheats.

------
kipchak
Magnasanti seems like a more tangible application of the AI paperclip
maximizer. A city built to maximize population reduces the pleasantness of
each life.

------
odomojuli
I'm surprised no one's mentioned that this is more or less a stochastic
cellular automata.

It's essentially a grid-based parallel computer.

------
schnevets
To quote the article:

Population growth is stagnant. Sims don’t need to travel long distances,
because their workplace is just within walking distance. In fact they do not
even need to leave their own block. Wherever they go it’s like going to the
same place.

\-----------------------------------

Maybe OP posted this after working from home in quarantine for one week too
many.

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thedudeabides5
Anyone else here play foundation?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqZWxCv-_5I&list=PLIsqJzeZeG...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqZWxCv-_5I&list=PLIsqJzeZeGYEEho6ysI91Jprx-i6HWj96)

Interesting game to max out, not sure if anyone has tried though...

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finaliteration
In a some tangential way this makes me think of Derek Parfit’s “repugnant
conclusion”:

[https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-
conclusion/](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/)

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simonebrunozzi
Curious to why it is called "Magnasanti"; possibly related to Arcosanti [0]?

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcosanti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcosanti)

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kensai
It is also a Civic in Beyond Earth.
[https://civilizationbeyondearth.gamepedia.com/Magnasanti](https://civilizationbeyondearth.gamepedia.com/Magnasanti)

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Pxtl
Kind of surprised that pollution is a problem with no roads and no industry.

~~~
faeyanpiraat
Densely packed skyscrapers block wind maybe?

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Kipters
Magnasanti in Italian sounds like "Saints' Eater". Poetic, isn't it?

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dirtyid
Wonder if we'll ever get planet scale Simcity for sweet Ecumenopolis planning.

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jacksonpollock
as a purist sim city 2000 player, i love this

