
Names of the chemical elements in Chinese - breadbox
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=18877
======
est
> I was both surprised and disappointed by how hard it was to find a simple
> numerical list giving the following information for each element: number,
> symbol, English name, Chinese character (traditional and simplified),
> Pinyin.

I find wikipedia is ze best tool for cross-language reference research

1\. go to this
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table)

2\. click the last language item on the left column

3\. you got this
[http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%83%E7%B4%A0%E5%91%A8%E6%...](http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%83%E7%B4%A0%E5%91%A8%E6%9C%9F%E8%A1%A8)

~~~
simias
Unless I'm missing something I don't see the pinyin in wikipedia's table so it
still doesn't fit the author's requirements.

------
leeoniya
I've pondered on multiple occasions, what if computing was born somewhere
other than the west and we had to use roman numerals and/or Chinese/Arabic for
software development. I could never understand how anyone can quickly
discern/read a huge dictionary of such dense and wildly intricate glyphs.

~~~
somerandomone
Inventing computer with Chinese/Arabic is inherently harder because it's more
difficult to type such characters. Once you pass the punctuation card stage,
now what? Build a huge keyboard with 10s of thousand of Chinese characters? It
took 13 years for MS-DOS to support typing in Chinese.

~~~
meric
The first solution that came into my mind, type using strokes.

Here is a list of 11 strokes:

[http://www.121chineselessons.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/02/...](http://www.121chineselessons.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/02/Chinese-Writing-Strokes.jpg?99685b)

Every word's strokes has a pre-determined "correct" order.

Once you list out the word's strokes, there are only a a couple of
possibilities of characters left.

A blog post on `Chinese Python`.
[http://reganmian.net/blog/2008/11/21/chinese-python-
translat...](http://reganmian.net/blog/2008/11/21/chinese-python-translating-
a-programming-language/)

~~~
vorg
Unfortunately, Chinese Python maps English words to 2-character Chinese words,
so the translation requires spaces between the Chinese words. So

    
    
        while running:
          guess = int(raw_input('Enter integer: '))
          if guess == number:
            print 'Congratulations'
            running = False
          elif guess < number:
            print 'No, higher'
          else:
            print 'No, lower'
    

translates to

    
    
        當 運行:
          猜測 = 整數(輸入('輸入數字: '))
          如果 猜測 == 數字:
            印出 '恭喜'
            運行 = 假
          假使 猜測 < 數字:
            印出 '錯了, 再大'
          否則:
            印出 '錯了, 再小'
    

But if we map English words in programming to single Chinese _characters_ , we
wouldn't need spaces, so perhaps

    
    
        當運:
          猜=整(輸('輸入數字: '))
          如猜==數:
            印'恭喜'
            運=假
          否如猜<數:
            印'錯了, 再大'
          否:
            印'錯了, 再小'
    

And if we made the syntax more C-like to fully make use of the spaceless
syntax

    
    
        當運{
          猜=整(輸('輸入數字: '))
          如猜==數{印'恭喜';運=假}
          否如猜<數{印'錯了, 再大'}
          否{印'錯了, 再小'}
        }
    

One could program on one's smartphone screen on the train!

~~~
meric
You can use semi-colons in Python to put multiple lines in one line, as well
as inline blocks next to the colon. So, you can remove the braces, too. Added
parenthesis for python 3.

    
    
        當運:
          猜=整(輸('輸入數字: '))
          如猜==數:印('恭喜');運=假;
          否如猜<數:印('錯了, 再大');
          否:印('錯了, 再小')

------
muddyrivers
"The first thing we may say about the names of the chemical elements in
Chinese is that every single one of them is monosyllabic. This actually causes
great problems for Chinese chemists and other scientists, as well as the lay
public, since there are so many homophones and near-homophones among them and
with other monosyllabic words not on the list. Listening to a lecture or
holding discussions that mention chemical elements and hearing the elements
referred to by these monosyllabic names is challenging, to say the least."

\-- It is untrue that "[this] actually causes great problems for Chinese
chemists and other scientists, as well as the lay public." Chinese is a highly
context-sensitive language. If people have no difficulty in communicating with
other monosyllabic characters, why would they get confused when they refers to
chemical elements? That does't sound making sense.

It is definitely hard to lay public, so is the case in English for American,
at least for the people I know. They have no idea what most of the chemical
ingredients listed in packaged food are, which is not surprising since the
majority of people don't major nor minor in chemistry in college.

It is definitely not challenging for chemists and students who study
chemistry, at least not for me and my college classmates, to understand
lectures and have discussions on chemistry in Chinese. For example, when one
refers to 铬 (Chromium) in a discussion in chemistry, the others wouldn't
confuse it with other characters with the same pronunciation and tone, like
个，各，硌， etc. based on the context.

It is correct that most of the chemical element characters were invented from
scratch in the last 150 years. Is a language supposed to evolve like that? Is
it the similar case in English? I know most of the new elements were named
after the scientists who discovered them. But what is wrong to create a
Chinese new character for a new element based on the way how most Chinese
characters have been created?

Disclaimer: I have studied inorganic chemistry, organic chemistry, physical
chemistry, analytical chemistry in college. If it were in US, I could have at
least had a minor in chemistry.

~~~
peteretep

        > Chinese is a highly context-sensitive language. If
        > people have no difficulty in communicating with other
        > monosyllabic characters, why would they get confused
        > when they refers to chemical elements? That does't sound
        > making sense.
    

From what you quoted, emphasis my own.

    
    
        > "there are so many homophones and near-homophones *among them*"
    

If the context is "chemical elements", and lots of them sound very similar, I
suspect that's going to be a problem.

~~~
muddyrivers
I think it is a false statement that "there are so many homophones". In
mainland system, I haven't found two elements with the same (pronunciation,
tone). They could sound the same for non-native speakers, but they sound
different for native speakers. I don't think this is hard to understand.

~~~
jzwinck
How do Chinese people differentiate 珠 "pearl" from 朱 "vermilion" in a spoken
context such as "What material is best worn by an emperor?" These seem to be
homophones, yet the words are similar enough in usage that it may not be clear
from the context which one is meant (as opposed to 豬 "pig" which again has the
same pronunciation but is less likely to be ambiguous).

~~~
vysaga
There are other equivalent words. For instance, 珍珠 for pearl (I actually never
heard anyone use 珠 alone）. No idea what "vermilion" means in your question. If
it refers to the color, then you can say “朱红” or “朱红色”. In fact, very few
words in spoken Chinese are monosyllabic, so it is highly unlikely to confuse
a chemical element with other things. Moreover, you can always say "chemical
element" \+ 元素 (element) or 原子 (atom) if you are afraid of confusing people;
for instance, 氢原子，碳元素, though it is hardly necessary, as I never encountered
the problem the author described in my 5+ years of studying chemistry in
Chinese.

------
narrator
>The vast majority of the Chinese characters for the elements contain the
"gold / metal" radical 金. Next in number are characters that contain the "gas
/ vapor" radical 气. After that comes a smaller group of characters containing
the "stone / rock" radical 石. Last, there are two characters that contain the
water radical 氵/ 水: xiù 溴 ("bromine") and gǒng 汞 ("mercury"). In terms of the
classification of the elements by state (solid, liquid, gas, unknown) and type
(metals [alkali metals, alkaline earth metals, lanthanoids, actinoids,
transition metals, post-transition metals], nonmetals [halogens, noble gases,
other nonmentals]), and metalloids, the division (according to character
radicals) into metal, gas, stone, and water is not accurate.

Didn't anyone tell them to make their primary keys factless? By encoding all
this information in the name they'll never be able to change it if they
discover some new fact about it that contradicts all this information they put
in the primary key.

~~~
Sniffnoy
We have this in English too. Helium's not only found on the sun. Oxygen is not
an essential component of acids. Etc.

Fortunately, in chemistry, the symbol is more of the primary key than the
name. Or, really, the primary key is the atomic number -- which is certainly
not factless, but the facts follow from it as a result of nature; you don't
have to worry that things will change and it won't work anymore.

------
zac1944
just want to point out that is traditional Chinese which only used in Taiwan,
no main land.

~~~
hoangtrung
It isn't.

Traditional Chinese widely used in China town all over the world, in Macao,
Hong Kong, Taiwan, Guang Dong.

------
chuan92
In China, almost every dictionary book has a back cover containing periodic
table.

------
vysaga
The author clearly has limited knowledge about Chinese. Most of his/her claims
are wrong.

~~~
breadbox
Wow.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_H._Mair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_H._Mair)

