
Relax, It's Just Ubuntu 15.04. AARGH IT'S FULL OF SYSTEMD - byaruhaf
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/05/ubuntu_15_04_review/
======
amyjess
I've actually gotten to the point where I don't mind systemd itself
("systemctl status" is a sysadmin's wet dream, and the built-in security and
resource limit options are seriously wonderful), but what I _do_ have a
problem with is how the Linux ecosystem is turning into a monoculture.

IMO, Linux is at its healthiest when its two most popular server
distributions, RHEL and Debian, are as different as they can possibly be. I
really wish Debian would have gone with OpenRC for that reason.

~~~
vezzy-fnord
_built-in security and resource limit options are seriously wonderful_

You could have used these already as separate tools that operate on process
state. It's just kernel subsystems and syscalls at the end of the day. util-
linux has them.

~~~
amyjess
But with systemd, I can just throw an extra key-value pair in the unit file,
and _bam_. No messing with wrapper programs, no modifying the service's code
and recompiling, etc. It's not that it's not possible without systemd, it's
that systemd makes it trivially easy.

~~~
vezzy-fnord
It's either throw an extra key-value pair or throw an extra program name in
front of the line to start. They're both trivially easy, and the latter has
the advantage of being totally agnostic of anything other than the kernel.

------
vezzy-fnord
_When you boot Linux, the init system loads the drivers you need, turns on
your network connection, fires up the necessary system service and then loads
the desktop. Without an init system, you have no way to do anything._

Actually I'm pretty sure it's udev that handles module loading these days
(which isn't related to the functions of init(8) and process management, even
if it's part of systemd now), or alternately one can use the kmod tools
manually.

This is a misleading interpretation in general. The init system (though really
the process manager) _starts the services_ to enable all these things. The
simplest form is just a synchronous tool that exec()s binaries.

~~~
amyjess
> This is a misleading interpretation in general. The init system (though
> really the process manager) starts the services to enable all these things.
> The simplest form is just a synchronous tool that exec()s binaries.

Even in traditional init systems, networking configuration is written into the
init scripts themselves. For starting the desktop and udev, sure, the init
script just starts a service, typically through start-stop-daemon, but the
actual network configuration logic is in the init scripts.

~~~
rlpb
> ...networking configuration is written into the init scripts themselves

This statement may technically be true, but it is misleading about what
component actually does what.

It depends on where you consider the init system to end and the distribution's
networking scripts to begin. On Debian and Ubuntu, the ifupdown package
provides traditional networking configuration, and network-manager the
"desktop roaming" networking configuration. They integrate with the init
system like other services (and arguably a bit tighter) but they are still
separate components.

So yes - as you say the networking configuration is written into the init
scripts themselves, but the init scripts are provided by the distribution's
networking components, not by the init system component.

And indeed the systemd switch in 15.04 - a replacement of init system - has
happened but the networking configuration mechanism (ifupdown) remains. Both
before and after the init system _triggers_ the networking to be configured,
but the init system is not the component that does the work.

------
dekhn
I upgraded to 15.04. No real problems. In fact, systemd nicely addressed a few
things that were really awkward for me before, and the integration with
containers is very nice.

~~~
JdeBP
I suggest hanging out on AskUbuntu and trying to help people. It's far more
informative than a sample of size 1.

There are various visible differences
([http://askubuntu.com/a/613814/43344](http://askubuntu.com/a/613814/43344)),
and quite a lot of recurrent problems with outdated instructions from third
parties
([http://askubuntu.com/a/617822/43344](http://askubuntu.com/a/617822/43344)),
the "official" packages being __behind __the Ubuntu-supplied packages
([http://askubuntu.com/a/617869/43344](http://askubuntu.com/a/617869/43344)
[http://askubuntu.com/a/617773/43344](http://askubuntu.com/a/617773/43344)),
assumptions of upstart breaking things
([http://askubuntu.com/a/618138/43344](http://askubuntu.com/a/618138/43344)
[http://askubuntu.com/a/613785/43344](http://askubuntu.com/a/613785/43344)),
interactions with binary drivers
([http://askubuntu.com/a/613773/43344](http://askubuntu.com/a/613773/43344)),
plexmediaserver
([http://askubuntu.com/questions/601226/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/601226/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/600026/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/600026/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/617575/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/617575/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/618275/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/618275/)),
NetworkManager
([http://askubuntu.com/questions/615006/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/615006/)),
and X display manager logon
([http://askubuntu.com/questions/614128/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/614128/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/614013/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/614013/)).

Then there's the __really popular __ "starting version 219" question
([http://askubuntu.com/questions/618668/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/618668/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/613776/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/613776/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/617593/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/617593/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/616426/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/616426/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/613627/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/613627/)
[http://askubuntu.com/questions/613969/](http://askubuntu.com/questions/613969/)).

~~~
dekhn
Do you have a point? Of course there are problems rolling out a new,
complicated system.

I've been using Linux since 1993. There is nothing new here, same process has
been ongoing for 20+ years.

