

Ask HN: How Much Do Devs in Rich Europe (SUI, GER, LUX, MON and Scandinavia) Make? - chirau

I am considering making a move out there. I am also curious to know how tough it is for foreigners to get jobs there and what fields of software development are lucrative.
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junto
For information regarding hourly rate in Germany, Switzerland (German speaking
part) and Austria, you can search for "Stundensatz Softwareentwickler" on
Google. A good site for this kind of information is gulp.de:

[https://www.gulp.de/cgi-
gulp/trendneu.exe/MONEYFORMDLL?txtPo...](https://www.gulp.de/cgi-
gulp/trendneu.exe/MONEYFORMDLL?txtPosition=IT+Allgemein+&txtFachSchwer=java&lstvAndOr=und&resultsample=10)

[https://www.gulp.de/knowledge-base/stundensaetze/und-er-
stei...](https://www.gulp.de/knowledge-base/stundensaetze/und-er-steigt-
weiter-stundensatz-der-it--engineering-freiberufler-erreicht-neuen-
hoechstwert.html#item-8)

Remember though, the cost of living (and taxes) is also much higher in these
"rich" countries and more than often you'll need to learn the lingo. There are
some exceptions to this. Munich, Luxembourg and Zurich for example have large
multinationals where the lingua-franca inside the company is English. Berlin
has loads of startups where lots of foreigners work. I know a few Brits and
Ozzies working in Berlin who still can't speak any German after years of
living there (I don't think that is a good thing btw).

I have no idea about Scandinavia, but nearly all people have some basic level
of English and the younger generations are often fluent.

Where are you moving from, out of interest?

~~~
chirau
Thanks for the links. I am currently in New York. I was in SF for 4 years then
moved out here. I work for a big tech firm. I am tired the US and quite
possibly my firm too. So I want to try something new.

------
dorfuss
For me the climate and people are more important than the pay strip. I'd
choose something like the south of France, the region of Provance, cities like
Avignon, Manosque or Grenoble (if you are into skiing).

I'd dessuade you from living in the Northern Europe.

I lived in Denmark for a year and I'd not go to Scandinavia but for holidays
ever again.

The taxes are so high it's almost not worthwhile to make any effort or try
harder.

These countries have one of the smallest income gap between those who earn the
least and the rich. On the top of that it's dark, cold, the language is
difficult to pick up, stores close early on the week days and are closed on
Sundays.

Read about "Law of Jante" on Wikipedia.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante)

Everything is damn expensive. Owning a car is a luxury.

People are friendly, but that means just "helpful" kind of friendly, not
necessarily friendly like in "warm, carring and thoughtful". At least that's
my impression.

They drink a lot and drinking is a must if you want to socialise. The
stereotype of drinking Russians should be superseded by the drinking Danish
youth. Perfectly dreadful.

The original Legoland in Billund is closed in winter :(

And trains are often late.

However, the nature is fabulous, and the streets and houses are meticulously
clean. And these countries were not destroyed during the great wars - the last
time Copenhagen was besiged, bombarded and plundered was in the times of
Napoleon in 1807 - unlike Berlin or Dresden. That gives the city a special
ambience.

On the other hand in Provance it is warm most of the year and you can easily
get to Rome or Paris, or pay Spain a visit. And it has Alps and Mediterranean
and palm trees all no further than 70 km drive!

------
pepyn
Statistics for Sweden:
[http://www.lonestatistik.se/loner.asp/yrkeskategori/Data-
IT-...](http://www.lonestatistik.se/loner.asp/yrkeskategori/Data-IT-101) (In
Swedish, check "programmerare" for general programming jobs, "Webbutvecklare"
for web devs)

Depending on skill/education, entry-mid level software jobs usually pay about
25000-30000 SEK/month (~4000 USD), before taxes. Larger companies may have
agreements with unions on salary levels based on level of education/years of
experience.

30k provides a pretty good quality of life, expect to take home ~23k after
tax, depending on where you live you might pay ~7k in rent for a 2 bedroom
apartment and ~3k on food.

Everyone speaks decent to good English and getting a job shouldn't be too
hard, provided you have experience. The tricky part is dealing with the world-
class bureaucracy of Skatteverket, the Swedish tax agency. Even for me, as an
EU citizen, it was quite the paperwork mission.

------
swissRF
I am a mobile developer based in Lausanne, Switzerland. Job pays me CHF 85k
per year.

------
jamesfletcher
Not as much as somebody who knows how to make people feel. It's got a lot
better in recent years, though. Certainly in London anyway.

