
Ask HN: What advice would you give college students about starting a business?  - lyime
So I have been given the opportunity to speak at the university I graduated from (Portland State University) about my experience starting Mugasha while I was an undergrad.<p>I thought I would get some of your thoughts on starting a business.<p>Here are few questions I plan on talking about.<p>- Why start your own business? Why start early?<p>- How to be a domain expert?<p>- How do you know if you have the right Idea?<p>- Why it will be the hardest thing you will ever do?<p>- How do you bootstrap?<p>- How do you find investors?
======
portman
>> _What advice would you give college students about starting a business?_

You are not as experienced as you think you are.

I wish someone I respected had told me this when I was a college student. In
college, I thought I was super-awesome. I thought I was already a leader. I
thought I was qualified to manage a 100-person company. I thought I didn't
have much else to learn; I just wanted to start a company so I could grow it
and sell it and make a ton of money like everyone else.

Now I know that I am merely above-average and lucky. I know that for every
problem I face, there is someone more experienced than I who has already
solved that problem, thrice-over, and wants to help me. If I had known this 10
years ago, I think I would have sought out a _lot_ more advice, been much more
receptive to criticism, and been a better entrepreneur.

Note: obviously this is 100% personal and anecdotal. I may have been the only
a-hole in college who needed to hear that message, so YMMV.

~~~
alexitosrv
You are not alone, I'm the same boat here. The thing is the experience is
something that you don't get until just after of needing it.

------
e1ven
I'd advise against taking on any debt in your own name- It's a very tempting
offer, particularly if you have good credit coming out of school, but it will
mean that if the business does go south for whatever reason, even if it is
outside your control, you may be paying it off for decades.

Instead, build something that can raise profits immediately, and start
building from there. That will help to keep you focused on what your revenue
stream can support- Borrowed money allows you to have unrealistic ideas, and
overspend too quickly.

~~~
frederickcook
Along the same lines here, I would say just don't make mistakes or large
commitments in general that will tie you down. Don't get arrested for underage
drinking (or DUI), don't risk having kids, don't take stupid chances with your
life or health, don't screw up your credit, don't take on lots of college
loans if you can avoid it, etc. Being able to live anywhere and on almost no
money will make it a lot easier.

Additionally, do talk to a potential long-term partners about the entrepreneur
lifestyle (and not having a high-paying job for a few years), do read as many
blogs and books on entrepreneurship as you can (you won't have time once you
actually start a company), do go out of your way to meet as many people as
possible, and stay in touch with the smart ones.

Also, TAKE PROGRAMMING CLASSES.

------
mrphoebs
Tell them that they need to weigh the upside and downside of risks they are
taking (financial, time, value) before they take the leap. More often than not
starting young has a lot of upsides. No golden handcuffs, More agile/lean , No
family to support, Ramen profitability is OK and the delta in learning is
huge. Tell them that the upside to failure(which is the worst outcome not
considering going into debt) in their first venture is way better than their
downside.

Also tell them that the hardest part no one talks about is how starting a
company means you are the boss and how you need to plan stuff everyday and get
it done. Also, its not the amount of work they get done but the results they
get and how driven they are to get those results that matter in the end.

------
ptn
I'm a college student who wants to start a business, these are the questions
that I'd like answered:

\- do it full-time or on the side?

\- what kind of advice should I _not_ listen to?

\- My skills are programming and designing, what kind of stuff should I learn?

\- do I really need to move to a technology-rich country? (For the effects of
your talk, maybe you should change _country_ for _city_.)

\- how do you get customers and do sales if you are an introvert geek?

\- what to look for in a cofounder?

~~~
jacquesm
> do it full-time or on the side?

What's worth doing is worth doing well, consider your college education over
and done with when you start down this path. A startup is time consuming, the
first year is the hardest, it takes usually about three years to become
established, though of course that changes from case to case.

> what kind of advice should I not listen to?

You should weigh _every_ advice you get (including this!), as to
applicability, sanity and whether it chimes in with your gut feelings or not.

> My skills are programming and designing, what kind of stuff should I learn?

If your skills are programming and designing you want to become very good at
dealing with people. That's probably more important than either of the other
two.

> do I really need to move to a technology-rich country?

No, you don't need to move to a technology rich country, but it helps if you
intend to fish in a larger pool of talent, and it may make it easier to
divest. Plenty of people have done this from 'non technology rich' countries,
there are challenges and advantages there.

> how do you get customers and do sales if you are an introvert geek?

Better change that or you will not be doing well. That's the number one
challenge you face I think.

> what to look for in a cofounder?

Trustworthiness, dependability and adaptability.

~~~
derefr
> Better change that

You can't _change_ introversion, because it's not an externally-visible face
you "put on," but rather part of your utility function: extroverts (re)gain
energy from social interactions, and spend energy working in solitude, and
vice-versa for introverts. You can't change what tires you out, although you
can fake not being tired.

~~~
jacquesm
Being an introvert can have many reasons, some of them are 'born in', and are
hard to overcome others are caused by a lack of confidence or bad experiences
in the past.

You can overcome some of it, but not all of it, your mileage will definitely
vary on that one, but almost everybody can shift their attitude, even if only
a bit, and usually more than that.

Read 'darkxahnthos' blog on this:
<http://socialskydivingwithjustin.posterous.com/>

Giving up before you've started is a great way not to succeed at anything.

~~~
derefr
I never said to _give up_ —I just think there are ways to succeed at external
tasks that don't involve changing the kind of person you are internally.
Because otherwise, it's basically equivalent to saying "only extraverts can do
this job"—that if you aren't one already, you need to turn yourself into one.
And _that_ sounds like a defeatist attitude to me—why can't I do that job
_and_ still be myself afterward?

But in generally programmer-y terms: I don't think it matters what you've got
on running the inside, as long as you can manage to conform to the right
protocols :)

~~~
jacquesm
Protocol is exactly the right term, but 'introverts' can have issues with
protocol.

I figure that at heart I'm an introvert, I'm just very good at masking it :)

And over time it got better, I no longer have a problem approaching total
strangers and starting a conversation, it became something of a sport. And
that kind of ability is priceless in a sales situation, as long as it is
genuine.

You can be yourself just fine, it's just that if you appear unapproachable or
if you can't approach others that your chances of success as an independent
take an instant nosedive. So you man up and overcome your limitations, you try
to do your best and in time you'll look back at that 'introverted geek' that
you used to be and you wonder what happened to him or her.

It doesn't mean you're going to 'turn yourself in to an extrovert', it simply
means that in order to succeed you will have to behave more or less as
predicted, protocol as you call it. And that such protocol has a lot in common
with extrovert behaviour is unfortunate, but that doesn't mean that you are
changing your base character.

I also think that there is way too much emphasis on being 'introvert or
extrovert', I hardly ever come across people that fit the stereotypes well
enough that the label alone is sufficient to predict their response in every
situation.

------
bgnm2000
I think customer development (from steve blank's book: the four steps to the
epiphany) is a really important subject rarely touched upon in schools. Often
times you can sell the product before you even create it. That needs to be
communicated to students.

------
quizbiz
First of all I think you're doing a great service to the student body. I have
really had to reach out in order to gain advice and information as a college
freshman doing a web dev business and a summer storage franchise. I think many
think about time management a lot. Here at Emory there is a ton of pressure to
do well and aim for a 4.0 for Grad School. The time commitment necessitated
for venture is difficult to deal with. So please talk about time management.
The most inspiring words I heard about the subject probably were along the
lines of, take advantage of the free time you have now because later on you'll
only have less and less. I think that came from HN.

------
paulgb
Not sure if you found this to be the case with Mugasha, but as an undergrad
currently in the same position my biggest advice would be "get mentors". It
never occurred to me how useful and willing to talk people who had successful
businesses would be.

Another one is the importance dedication and hard work. I have friends who've
dropped out to start businesses. They work harder and longer hours than my
friends who stayed in school (myself included).

------
jacquesm
I'm going to write this as a high-school drop-out that did very well:

Finish that college and forget about that startup, assuming you're in a
halfway decent college and a somewhat useful discipline.

I know you've been asked to speak about your experience, but keep in mind
you've been asked because of your success, and the road behind you is littered
by the corpses of those that didn't make it.

Starting a business, while in college, or out of it, is in large part luck if
it is successful. By talking to people about what you've achieved you may give
them the impression that this is easier than it looks, so stress the amount of
luck that went in to it, to make sure they can weigh the odds accordingly.

Starting early or late isn't really much of a decision, the longer you wait
the more knowledge you have, so the bigger the chance that you will succeed
the first time, but by then the people that started earlier will have failed
once already and will have learned from that as well. It works out about even.

Being a 'domain expert' is limiting your business to something very small
right away, better to be general and to know how to procure the services of
domain experts!

You know you have a 'right idea' when it starts moving under its own power,
instead of you having to push it.

Finding investors is for a very lucky few, better concentrate on realistic
scenarios for bootstrapping.

Possible additions to your list:

\- the value of networking

\- keep your fixed costs DOWN! (even today I still do this)

\- make a nest egg as soon as you can afford it

\- live healthy, running a startup is like top sport

------
thiele
What's the first step to getting started?

(or in other words, "Just start building something")

------
shaddi
As a current college student, I'd recommend they try their hand at starting a
student organization that does something entreprenurial (a microfinance
organization, or a group providing tech services to the poor, for example). I
suppose I don't have the experience to compare it to launching a startup, but
from what I've understood about startups there are a lot of similarities:

\- You are the one in charge, you have to make stuff happen

\- You have to figure out where money is going to come from and how to make it
last (if you don't have a legitimate budget sheet you're doing it wrong)

\- You have to think about recruitment and retention of members (hard when
payment is not an option)

\- You have to manage and motivate people

\- You have to set goals, develop a vision, and convey that to your members

\- You have to find organizations who can help you, and learn how to form
mutually beneficial partnerships

\- You face hard times and good times, but have to keep going regardless

\- You learn your strengths and weaknesses as a leader (good for knowing what
to look for in a co-founder)

\- If you are really passionate about what you're doing, you'll learn what
it's like to really devote yourself to an organization

\- Somewhat trivially, you'll need to learn how to handle lots of emails,
personal contacts, and competing time commitments.

The nice thing is that the cost of failure is pretty much 0 in a student
organization. If it doesn't work, no one will really care that much. But if it
does, you've made a mark on your university and probably learned a lot in the
process.

~~~
atiw
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

Saying that doing a student organisation is a nice thing because it's cost of
failure is 0, is not a very good logic.

In fact, it is the risk factor that mostly forces us to go above and beyond
when everyone else is giving up. Persistence is the key, and a good way of
achieving that could having limited high risk, so that you don't quit during
tough times.

Sooner or later, there comes a point, when you have to make a lot of tough
decisions, which mostly comes down to giving up versus fighting and finding
your way out somehow.

Oh, and I totally agree that you probably should try and keep your actual
money investment close to 0, and maximise your time investment. But, I also
think you can build a business with minimum money involved, and by that I mean
less than 500 bucks.

I am assuming a tech startup, where the main investment required is your time
and code, and you can at least get a "proof of concept" working...which can be
used to raise money and/or make sure it is the right idea.

Last, but not the least, if you know you are going to do a startup, or are at
least curious if you can do it, you owe it to yourself to see it through. To
go ahead and build it, or at least fail trying to build it.

The biggest upside to this startegy is that you only "learn" doing a student
organisation. Whereas you actually succeed building a startup.

I don't intend to be rude, but this kind of sounds like you want to do a
college degree right after high school, and you are confused, and you decide
to go do a assosciate degree or something, to get the "feel" of a real college
degree.

I repeat. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

~~~
shaddi
Right, they are not the same thing: they do share similarities, however. I
must not have made my point clearly. My own experience has to do with starting
a group that has a non-trivial operating budget (O(10k), decent for a student
org), customers, technology that we developed for our projects, and funded by
grants for which we are required to show demonstrable progress. There are a
few groups like this at my university, so I figure it is a relatively common
setup. We actually considered launching it as a for-profit business, but
realized none of us had the time to get fully behind that. When I say cost of
failure is 0, I mean to say you're not going to be out a substantial amount of
your own investment if things go bad. And you are still working towards
something you consider valuable (a degree) during the whole process, so it's
not a total waste of time. But there are certainly social costs for just
walking away from something you start, especially if you make a big deal out
it to begin with.

I understand what you're getting at -- they are not the same thing. But I do
think that some of the leadership aspects are similar, insofar as starting any
organization (student, startup, community, or otherwise) requires certain
common skills. If you can't/don't want to drop your studies to go do your
Startup, then this might be a means to exercise a similar skill (sub)set in
the meantime.

~~~
noverloop
I have done something similar and I share your viewpoint, it is not a
replacement for a real company in real economic circumstances but I did need
to develop a lot of skills that I wouldn't have learned in classrooms.

I'm still in college though so I can't tell you how beneficial these skills
will be when I either startup or enter the workforce.

------
dkokelley
You might want to talk about the different styles of businesses (lifestyle
business, owner-operator, founder/starup, franchise, hell, you can through
MLM/network marketing in there if you want).

A lot of times people have an idea in their head of 'this is what a "business"
is'. Showcasing the alternative styles of business might bring more students
to realize that starting a business can fit their goals even better than they
imagined.

------
chrischen
> Why start your own business? Why start early?

I start because I have an undeniable urge. I start early (now) because I want
to be able to harness this urge while it's still here, and while the
opportunity still exists.

> How do you know if you have the right Idea?

Test your idea by getting it out asap. That's the only way. Anything else
would just be guessing.

> Why it will be the hardest thing you will ever do?

Maybe not giving up?

------
adelevie
Why start early? Early is probably the best time in your life to do it.

------
JangoSteve
I actually just had a discussion with a group of students and advisors from
the UofM center for entrepreneurship Friday. I think the 3 take-away points
from my speech were:

1\. You know you want to be an entrepreneur when you don't feel right doing
anything else. This life is too short to spend it doing something you hate.

2\. Be Flexible. Be passionate. But don't let your passion get in the way of
your flexibility. We're all attached to our ideas. But sometimes you have to
be open to the possibility that no one wants what you want them to want.

3\. (this is the single most important piece of advise I could give anyone, no
matter what they decide they want to do with their life) Learn how to tell a
story. If you can become a great storyteller, you can succeed in whatever it
is you decide to do with your life.

------
marcamillion
Cash flow is king.

People always talk about 'cash is king', but more importantly...'cash flow' is
really king.

If you get them to focus on generating cash flow early, then from there you
can lead into getting a prototype/lean product into early customer's hands
early.

You can be 'profitable' and still go bankrupt.

------
waxman
\- Don't be afraid to seek out resources at your school (alumni,
entrepreneurship programs, professors, fellow students, etc.)

\- Don't spend too much time planning; think through some basics, then build a
prototype, and launch it. From then on it's all about listening to your users
and iterating. I think this is tough for college students, who are used to
overanalyzing things, and not used to just doing things.

\- Don't waste away your college years over a start-up. It's great to start a
company in school. But college is a one-shot opportunity. Don't forget that.

------
InclinedPlane
The single most important thing I'd tell new college graduates is to not buy a
new car. Time and time again I've seen so many people acquire moderately
paying entry level employment and then immediately go and yoke themselves to a
huge debt that will deeply affect their finances for the next several years.
Better to go without a car for a while, if practical, and then buy used. If
possible pay cash, but in any event avoid anything that takes more than a year
or so to pay off if you have to borrow money.

------
proee
A cardboard box makes for a good table.

------
johnm
So much good advice that's high-level so here's a real simple one...

Trim your nails.

------
iworkforthem
\- Why start your own business? Why start early? So that you won't have to
work some stupid boss and complain all for the rest of your life. We all make
mistake along the way. Better to learn from any mistakes early.

\- How to be a domain expert? Got to love the subject, and be really really
really good at it.

\- How do you know if you have the right Idea? There is not right idea, just a
solution to solve a problem.

\- Why it will be the hardest thing you will ever do? f!

\- How do you bootstrap? Try to be a bit creative here alright.

\- How do you find investors? See above.

------
ostrichpincher
Although it doesn't address your questions directly, this talk about making
money online by David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of 37Signals and creator
of Ruby on Rails, makes quite a lot of sense when you're juggling around all
the thoughts about becoming an entrepeneur.
[http://37signals.com/svn/posts/981-the-secret-to-making-
mone...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/981-the-secret-to-making-money-online)
Enjoy. Take care, Karl

------
ecaron
From all I've seen, I would bring home these points:

1) Have a full-time job and do the startup on the side until you're simply not
able to anymore.

2) Read, read, read about modern successes and failures. Studying management
of the 80s doesn't make you a good manager - it makes you a historian. Find
people you look up to, and learn what you don't want to do.

3) Don't make a copy of something until you've tried to fix what you don't
like of the original.

------
ahi
\- Why start your own business? Why start early? Have you seen the job market?
Most of the job offers you will get (if they get any) will be low pay and low
responsibility, essentially digging yourself a hole at the beginning of your
careers. Even if unsuccessful, starting your own business builds experience
and skills making yourself more marketable in a few years when the job market
is better.

------
paraschopra
I will advise students to first get some experience at either at a big company
or well funded startup. Work for a couple of years and then do your own thing.
Right after college, one is usually full of hypotheses and an unreal model of
real world. Best way to test all those hypotheses and get a good understanding
of how outside-college world works is to work at some other company.

------
wevans
Get Organized: I found that in college you can get away with being un-
organized, with a business you really can't. Dropbox, Google Docs, Zoho,
various Chrome extensions, and other Task MGMT software have saved my life.

Workout in the morning:I found this is a great way to start the day, make time
to workout regardless. Morning if you can

------
chadarimura
Those are great topics, and I would add: "Choosing your team wisely".

A former college entrepreneur myself, it was easy in the early stages to
ignore "feelings" that our founding team didn't mesh well, but as the company
grew in size and responsibility, those initial feelings became show stoppers.

------
dangrossman
Just because it was the hardest thing you ever did doesn't mean starting a
business has to be the hardest thing every student's done. Plenty of
businesses have grown out of hobby sites set up in the spare time by college
students.

------
lyime
"Don't be afraid to take an old school concept and reenergize it. Modern
methods are essential to success" via @MassachusettsRealtor

------
fnid2
\- Why start your own business? Why start early?

Success takes practice. The sooner you start, the more likely you will be to
end up successful in the end. I started my first .com while I was still in
college. Start it because it's a learning experience. It's a way to test
yourself against a larger pool of competitors. It'll make you stronger and
better able to empathize with future bosses if you don't succeed right away.
It'll help you be a better person, more persuasive and help you understand the
world better.

\- How to be a domain expert?

Do it for 10,000 hours according to Gladwell.

\- How do you know if you have the right Idea?

The market pays you money for it.

\- Why it will be the hardest thing you will ever do?

It's not the hardest thing you'll ever do. Not by a long shot. Well, it may
be. It's not the hardest thing I've ever done. But maybe I'm not working hard
enough. Really it's about finding balance in your life and being happy.
Setting your own path. Finding your own success and reaping more of what you
sow.

\- How do you bootstrap?

Get a good job for a couple years. It'll give you valuable experience and
maybe help you find your right idea. Save EVERY penny you can. Get a cheap car
or better yet take public transit. Live close to work and walk. Get a cheap
apartment. Cook at home. Take your lunch to work. Save up 2 years of living
experiences. Then quit and move back home. Code in your basement.

Do consulting on the side. Pick up projects from the internet. Work with
friends. Tell everyone you know that you are trying to do something great and
they'll give you work or help you find it or refer you. People will admire you
for trying your hardest and trying to achieve something on your own. They'll
live vicariously through your success and feel good for helping you create it.

\- How do you find investors?

Network. Build a good product and they'll find you. You'll start getting calls
from VCs. When that happens contact the ones you want. Try thefunded.com for
an introduction. Look for angel lists. There's one floating around here.

Don't start looking for VC until you are 18 months into your 2 year runway.
That'll give you 6 months. If it doesn't work, you still have something that
may be generating some side money for you if you are not making enough money
to live -- that's where you want to strive to get. Don't expect to make
millions, you'll be discouraged. If you do, great! But don't set your
pass/fail lines at the same level of the startups you read about on TC or
here.

General advice:

It will take way longer than you imagine. A large part of success is proving
your commitment to a great idea to the world by dedicating your life to it.
Don't spend money on PR firms, corporations, big contracts, or to demo your
product. Get incorporated when you get a customer. Don't spend a lot, go to
legalzoom or fill out the paperwork on your own.

Don't be burdened by all the legal stuff. You can get your ducks in a row if a
big deal comes along or investors want a piece. Worrying about the hurdles
will only slow you down.

Use cloud computing providers. Don't buy servers and infrastructure. Host for
as cheap as you can, then move if you or your users feel sluggish responses
from your app.

------
ra
1\. Don't mess around, just do it.

2\. Aim high

------
pathik
Read Paul Graham's essays.

------
petervandijck
My nr 1 advice: don't forget to make money.

------
rue
Finish school.

------
BenSchaechter
Hardest thing in my opinion: perseverance. There are going to be ups and downs
with starting and running a business. I don't know if anyone really started
with the "right idea" -- but as you persevere and keep going ideas evolve and
things will hopefully work out in your [business's] favor.

