
Bakhshali manuscript: oldest recorded use of the zero symbol - _nh_
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/sep/14/much-ado-about-nothing-ancient-indian-text-contains-earliest-zero-symbol
======
justboxing
> Now scientists have traced the origins of this conceptual leap to an ancient
> Indian text, known as the Bakhshali manuscript – a text which has been
> housed in the UK since 1902.

"Housed" is a nice soft word for stealing. The English plundered all kinds of
treasure from the lands they invaded and annexed. This and even the Rosetta
Stone from Egypt.

(saying this as an Indian).

[EDIT: Why the downvotes? by 1900 the English, French and Dutch had invaded
and colonized 90% of Africa and Asia. Source:
[http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00maplinks/colo...](http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00maplinks/colonial/colonial_index.html)
]

~~~
fellellor
The downvotes here just go on to show the inherent racial bias of quite a few
commenters here. The argument is simple. Either you think conquest,
enslavement and exploitation of peoples around the world was right or you may
think that was the unfortunate relic of the past and we must all move on. If
you think it was wrong, then you should return the cultural relics plundered
from the erstwhile colonies.

Seeing this manuscript "housed" in the UK is just sad. Seeing people
continuing to support this situation just shows what really lies beneath the
surface of "western civilization".

~~~
vidarh
Some people also thing that "we must all move on" also involves not trying to
rectify or unravel everything that was done that was wrong, and/or think that
it is hypocritical to e.g. want to undo acts related to colonization without
e.g. also push for radically reshaping all other property relationships, which
have similarly problematic origins.

To assume it's all racial is just as sad.

~~~
fellellor
Well it is racial. What is really sad that you want to still be one of the
good guys while supporting a clearly immoral thing. It would be more
respectable, and less pathetic, to just accept your pride in the actions of
the colonizers, no matter what the consequences of those actions were for the
colonized.

And what property rights are you even referring to? The relic in question is a
physical item that can be moved without affecting those that continue to
possess the stolen item in any way. It's certainly not something those who
possess the item have earned. It's not even land that you have long settled,
which may be much harder to part with.

Continuing to hold on to it just says, "Yeah our ancestors were a bunch of
bandits. We don't apologize for it". Why would anyone move on when one of the
parties holds such an attitude? Let alone the aggrieved party.

~~~
vidarh
Try reading my comment again, as you don't seem to have understood a word of
the intent of it, and is ascribing me opinions that the comment does not in
any way support.

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thetruthseeker1
I think this article fails to capture the importance of zero. While the idea
of zero itself isn't staggeringly mind blowing, the real greatness with zero
came in with development of decimal/ Hindu (positional) numerical system and
zero indicating nothing in a position which led to simplicity in doing
arithmetic.

For example can you think of the rules to multiply XVIV with XXV or can you
quickly calculate what the result of that will be without translating to a
decimal number system ? Exactly!

With the use of zero and the the development of rules for decimal arithmetic
(Brahmagupta), the hindu numeral system became superior to the roman numeral
system and thus led to its wide adoption (The decimal number system was
promoted by Fibonacci in the west and some people consider that to be his
greatest achievement).

~~~
jaclaz
>For example can you think of the rules to multiply XVIV with XXV or can you
quickly calculate what the result of that will be without translating to a
decimal number system ? Exactly!

Well, very likely the Romans had some tricks to do that (and besides very
likely they did use an abacus), the fact that it appears difficult to us
(having been immersed in positional notation) does not mean much.

This algorithm (making use of halving and doubling) doesn't look so bad:

[http://rbutterworth.nfshost.com/Tables/romanmult](http://rbutterworth.nfshost.com/Tables/romanmult)

and it can be used also with our "positional" numbers.

[http://www.phy6.org/outreach/edu/roman.htm](http://www.phy6.org/outreach/edu/roman.htm)

The abacus (the Chinese "suanpan" or a derivative of it, as it is still used
in some eastern countries) is - in the hands of someone used to it - very
fast, I have seen people be on par or outperform a "westerner" trying to do
the same operation on a pocket calculator, I wouldn't be surprised if the
Romans abacus was as fast as that:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_abacus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_abacus)

the base as decimal (or actually bi-quinary) is the same.

~~~
thetruthseeker1
Did you read my other comment about why Fibonacci promoted the decimal number
system? Because, at least he thought in his qualitative assessment that the
Decimal number system was better and he brought in its adoption in the roman
world (Feel free to look it up).

All I was trying to say was the article is very superficial and does not
capture the "real value" zero eventually provided.

------
iooi
Highly recommend "Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea" [1] if you're
interested in learning more about the number zero.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Biography-Dangerous-Charles-
Seif...](https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Biography-Dangerous-Charles-
Seife/dp/0140296476)

~~~
snambi
Seems like fake history...

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nebula
American mathematical society has a featured column related to use of zero in
India: [http://www.ams.org/samplings/feature-column/fcarc-india-
zero...](http://www.ams.org/samplings/feature-column/fcarc-india-
zero#sthash.JE8LWI1D.dpuf)

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gourabmi
Didn't Aryabhatta, the one who invented zero, live in an era much earlier than
the 3rd or 4th century ?

~~~
dedalus
aryabhatta was between 476 to 550 AD

~~~
snambi
really??

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legends2k
Thanka for the link, upvoted.

Tangential note: This is what I don't like about the so-called hackers not
upvoting stuff unrelated to the Western world.

~~~
greglindahl
I upvoted this submission, as did a large number of other people who probably
live in the Western world. Do you think your comment is likely to increase or
decrease upvotes?

