
For-Profit College Chain Closes, Shutting Out Nearly 20k Students - rchaudhary
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/business/education-corporation-of-america-closing.html
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chrisaycock
There is a great documentary about for-profit colleges and how the US
education system got to the position it's in:

[https://failstatemovie.com](https://failstatemovie.com)

These companies target people who dream of a better life and then convince
them to take-out massive loans. Kind of like if payday lenders were being
propped-up by the federal government.

~~~
danieltillett
It is a pity that many of the not-for-profit colleges are not any better -
instead of profit the money goes to keeping an ever increasing number of
parasites (sometimes called administrators) in cushy jobs.

~~~
CaliforniaKarl
For what it's worth, it's 23:30 here, and I'm on my laptop working on making
sure that our internal ikiwiki is up-to-date with notes on the labs that I
support. I'm going in for surgery on Thursday, and I've got Wednesday off
(it's bowel surgery, so I'm doing all the annoying prep the day before). I
also need to post on the appropriate Slack channels, so that my co-workers
(who will be covering for me) know the docs are up-to-date. I also need to
note anything things that might pop up, that don't justify wiki entries (like,
tickets of note that are still open).

I'll probably work until Midnight or 00:30, and then pick right up at it
tomorrow morning, because _I want the docs to be up-to-date_. I was working on
all that today and yesterday, but there was also the regular support load from
my labs. Plus, one of my co-workers was stuck in a project to reverse-engineer
a binary file format, and I was helping her through using the Python `struct`
module for the first time. It would be nice if we had an extra employee to
help shoulder the load, but he's out right now (his wife was in labor).

My clients don't want to spend time managing technology. They just want to do
the stuff they love, to do their research. But things like broken servers,
laws, hackers, and the threat of negative PR, get in the way. I try to deal
with all of that for them.

I'm a staffer at a university. I already knew that some portion of the student
body thought of us as parasites[1], but I didn't know that the outside world
held the same view.

[1]: [https://stanfordreview.org/stanfords-administrative-bloat-
is...](https://stanfordreview.org/stanfords-administrative-bloat-is-out-of-
control/)

~~~
ForHackernews
I don't think anyone considers IT support staff to be "administrators".
They're thinking of Deans, Provosts, Vice Provosts, ____ Coordinators. These
positions frequently pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they've
multiplied significantly over the last 30 years.

~~~
sct202
IT project bloat is definitely an issue though. It's just not the support
staff that are causing the problem. Plus more admins are brought in either to
manage the projects or make them more 'efficient' when the projects fail or
are poorly implemented. You start to get coordinators whose job it is to hand
key from one system to another so that professors or what not don't have to do
it.

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CaliforniaKarl
Hmmmmm, this is a difficult one to think on. I think there is an implicit
contract made, where you put in enough time, effort, and money; and in return
you get a corresponding credential, or other record of your work (i.e. a
transcript). Each quarter/semester may be thought of as a contract, but that
doesn't tell the whole story, because it takes a series of these contracts to
get a credential. That's where the implicit part comes in.

As much as people don't like added government regulation, I think the best way
to address this may be to have a body similar to the FDIC (and the NCUSIF, for
credit unions).

Member educational institutions would provide the actual cost charged to each
student, including costs paid in cash and costs paid by loans, and including
actual room & board costs (if the institution charges for that). Each
institution would also survey the student body to determine average amount
spent on supplies, as well as the average cost for room & board for those who
live outside.

Through the accrediting agencies, the insuring body would be able to work out
about how long students would spent in-school for a particular degree.

The idea would be, should an institution 'fail' (for whatever definition you
want), the insuring body would step in and provide some immediate compensation
to students, to keep them in housing. Then, assess if they can transfer to
another institution. If not, then they are refunded all costs for the time
spent at the failed institution.

The body's actuaries can work out the general risk of institutional failures,
and figure out how much money each participating institution would have to
contribute to fund and maintain the insurance (which would likely be invested
in things like Treasury bonds).

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jimbokun
"As much as people don't like added government regulation"

Most people like regulation, but corporations and the wealthy don't, and they
are the only ones with a voice in US government.

~~~
mrfredward
I like that I can trust the food in the supermarket. I like that my water is
drinkable.

I don't like the straight, clear highway with no exits that drops from 70 mph
to 55mph for the sole purpose of generating revenue for the police department.
I don't like that books written by authors who died years ago, and are no
longer in print, may be lost forever because no one one can legally make a new
copy until a very long time in the future.

There are good regulations and bad ones. The generalized "regulation is
good/bad" debate is a waste of time. And FYI, there are plenty of wealthy
people abusing regulations to get richer, see the patent system for more info.

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paulpauper
Although I generally err on the side of less regulation, I applaud the
shutdown of these schools that prey upon unsuspecting students who think they
are getting something of value but aren't. I have read so many negative
stories about these schools. Students take on a ton of debt for useless
certificates.

~~~
Angostura
Unfortunately, those rules have just been relaxed to allow chools that prey
upon unsuspecting students to carry on doing so.

~~~
stochastic_monk
The reason for these recent decisions is that the secretary of education runs
for-profit schools and is simply feasting in the henhouse.

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nickk2006
While I think most for-profit colleges are predatory, I also believe the ones
that provide a technical skill such as nursing or dental hygienist can be
beneficial to the students and society.

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skookumchuck
A couple solutions:

1\. tuition money goes in escrow. It's refunded if the college goes under.
It's paid out otherwise.

2\. buy insurance. You get a payout of your tuition if the college fails.

~~~
propter_hoc
> 2\. buy insurance. You get a payout of your tuition if the college fails.

This is madness. Should you have to buy individual insurance in case your bank
fails? Your city goes bankrupt? Your police department goes on strike?
Regulating and maintaining institutions is the job of the government, not an
expense to be passed on to private citizens.

~~~
skookumchuck
People buy insurance to mitigate financial risk all the time. There's nothing
offensive about it.

And a private business is fundamentally not a police department or a city
government. We don't pay taxes to a private business, for example, and a
private business doesn't make laws we have to follow.

~~~
kkarakk
buy insurance to make sure the food you bought at a restaurant tastes good

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codeisawesome
This is really horrible for those students who are left with unfinished
courses! I know first hand how hard it is to find self-funding for education.
I hope those enterprising folks find ways to prosper despite this :(

~~~
PenguinCoder
Funding ie loans, isn't the problem the students have with this. It is the
transfer of current credits to another school that will allow them to continue
education. In my previous years, I went to a for profit college catering to US
armed forces members. I did not graduate with a degree, but a total of 52
credits. I still have a ton of student loan debt for this. Currently I am 1
semester away from completing my BS at a different school. More loans. Exactly
0 credits transferred from my first attempt to the current college.

~~~
anticensor
> a for profit college catering to US armed forces members

The government expects army candidates to cover military education experience
by themselves, did I read correctly? Or, is this aimed for active service
members?

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PenguinCoder
When I say catering to, I mean they college advertises heavily to the active
duty armed forces and works with a deployment schedule a lot better than some
other traditional colleges. There are certain use cases where using GI Bill or
Post 9/11 bill makes since WHILE on active duty, but generally you would use
those after discharge. I did not use either.

~~~
jwilbs
Is there any reason you decided to take loans instead of using the GI Bill?
Genuinely curious.

