
Climate Change: Rail Companies Sign Up to Flight Shame Movement - edward
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-29/climate-change-rail-companies-sign-up-to-flight-shame-movement
======
lqet
> Meanwhile, Deutsche Bahn AG hopes to attract 200 million long-distance rail
> passengers by 2030, an increase of 35%.

Good luck with that. DB neither has the rolling material [0], nor reliable
companies to build that rolling material [1], nor the infrastructure [2], nor
the personnel [3] to provide reliable service for the passenger numbers of
_today_. It remains a complete mystery how they will solve problems that have
been decades in the making since the privatization _and_ increase their
passenger numbers by 35% in just 10 years. To anyone who regularly travels
with DB (and to much of their own, frustrated [4] personnel) these plans sound
preposterous. It's exactly the same kind of growth- and revenue-oriented MBA
daydreaming that brought the company down to the alarming state it is in
today.

[0] [https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/deutsche-
bahn-...](https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/deutsche-bahn-warum-
es-der-deutschen-bahn-so-schlecht-geht-a-1247468.html)

[1]
[https://www.wiwo.de/my/unternehmen/dienstleister/bombardier-...](https://www.wiwo.de/my/unternehmen/dienstleister/bombardier-
fuer-bombardier-wird-die-lage-
ernst/24372184-2.html?ticket=ST-66062673-KQbwmtQ2HyptCT2hbbYb-ap5)

[2] [https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-
konsumgueter...](https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-
konsumgueter/infrastruktur-der-sanierungsstau-bei-der-bahn-waechst-
auf-57-milliarden-
euro/24062516.html?ticket=ST-61031932-ajQNy40QZvHCtyfM1Z0g-ap4)

[3] [https://www.spiegel.de/karriere/deutsche-bahn-
zugausfaelle-w...](https://www.spiegel.de/karriere/deutsche-bahn-zugausfaelle-
wegen-lokfuehrermangel-werden-anhalten-a-1281562.html)

[4] [https://www.derwesten.de/wirtschaft/70-prozent-der-bahn-
mita...](https://www.derwesten.de/wirtschaft/70-prozent-der-bahn-mitarbeiter-
sind-frustriert-id4968216.html)

~~~
bluGill
Those problems are solvable. If they focus on them all now they can get there.

There are several companies in the world making good rolling stock. There is a
fairly long leadtime, which means they better be making orders today to get
the rolling stock they need in time. Good rolling stock is of course a
requirement to increase passenger count.

Infrastructure can be built and rebuilt. The know how exists in the world, it
just needs money and a bit of time (the more money the less time)

These two need to start today. However some smart planning and priorities the
places where the most gains can be had. Doubling ridership in a small but busy
section is often easier than doing the whole system and can add up to 35%
overall increases even though the rest of the system is slightly down. This
could be doable in 10 years. (then you focus on the next small part of the
system and bring that up, while continuing to keep service high on the first,
and soon your network is useful)

People can be hired and trained. The right people will make it work. That is
management, and maintenance, and operations.

They have 8 years to do the above: it typically takes 2 years for riders to
respond to better service once it exists. It is a hard problem for sure, but
if they have the money and will it can be done. That is a rather large if
though, and I don't know if they do)

~~~
foobarian
On the surface it seems like such a simple thing to make - a box on some metal
wheels. Why is it such an accomplishment to make "good rolling stock?"

~~~
pjc50
A house is a simple thing, being a wooden or brick box? A car is also a box on
wheels? A rocket is just a metal cylinder? </sarcasm> \- could we at least try
to think or research before posting the middlebrow dismissal?

A passenger rail car is more like a house or very large caravan. In addition
to all the engineering below the body (wheels, suspension, vacuum brakes,
coupling), you've got a large superstructure with windows, plumbing,
electrics, HVAC, power-operated doors, and design considerations of
accesability and crash safety as well as comfort.

They generally need a special site to be built on (unless you want to ship
them by road, which can be done but is inconvenient) and some heavy capital
equipment.

The UK built bus-on-rail conversions to cover a period of national poverty;
the notorious "Pacers". They were uncomfortable and unpopular.

~~~
foobarian
A house IS a simple thing - it is not the case that you only have a few
companies in the world that make a "good one."

To me the thing that separates rail from cars or other vehicles is that they
have the advantage of having railroads, and so I would think that they can
make additional assumptions that cars can't. They don't need the steering
column for example, or make too much fuss about differentials.

And yet, the fact that cars are commoditized, but there are only a few good
rolling stock companies in the whole world makes me wonder what I am missing.
Maybe the demand/volume is just so low that there is no opportunity to
commoditize or create a huge market.

~~~
bluGill
There is limited demand. Rail cars are expected to last for 30 years (with a
couple significant refurbishments), and carry hundreds of people at a time
over limited routes. Road cars last about 12 years (average as I recall), and
carry only a couple people just about anywhere.

The result of this is society buys a lot more road cars than rail cars, and so
there is a lot more scale and a lot more companies making them.

------
spodek
The emotions most people associate with environmental action seem to be shame
and guilt.

I propose paying more attention to emotions and leading with different ones
since emotions motivate.

The more I act on my environmental values, the more I feel joy, then community
spirit and connection with people around me -- including taking the train to
L.A. and back from New York. I see that joy in hundreds of conversations with
world-renowned people on my podcast
[http://joshuaspodek.com/podcast](http://joshuaspodek.com/podcast) when they
act too (before they act they tend not to show joy or community -- action
creates it).

I was more than successful when I lived contrary to my environmental values
and felt happy then, but these emotions reach another level of depth and
connection. They motivate me to act more, and achieve more of value.

Meanwhile, guilt and shame seem to disengage people who aren't yet acting --
that is, the people most important to influence.

Another emotion I find rising up with experience acting on my environmental
values is disgust, the emotion I feel at the thought of a kindergarten teacher
smoking in the classroom. It started from my picking up at least one piece of
garbage from the ground each day and has spread to fast fashion, factory
farming, flying, industrial food, and more.

I don't like feeling disgust, but if my environment merits it, I'd rather feel
it to motivate me to act. I think it would motivate those not yet acting, as
with smoking before, more than guilt or shame.

I propose working to connect environmental action with joy, community, and
connection, and inaction with disgust. This is the first I've mentioned this
idea so I welcome feedback.

~~~
throwawaysea
Disgust feels close to shaming for me...or might lead to it. How do you keep
those two separate?

------
Merrill
This is valid for rail travel in Europe if the energy for electrified
intercity rail is not sourced from hydrocarbons. The energy efficiency in
MegaJoules per passenger-kilometer are about equal between rail and air. For
freight, rail is much more efficient in MegaJoules per ton-kilometer, but
passengers are a small percentage of a very heavy rail car.

In the US, other than the Boston-Washington corridor, intercity rail is diesel
powered and travels at 90 mph max due to grade crossings of roads and streets
and due to track curvature. To fix US intercity rail requires removing all
grade crossings, realigning the railways to straighten curves and redesigning
the roadbeds to support high speed operation.

~~~
tyfon
Do you have any articles or studies where you can see the CO2 output pr
passengers with train on diesel vs electric (sourced from various
hydrocarbons) vs air travel?

It would be interesting to see actual numbers and you seem to have studied
this a bit.

~~~
Merrill
See page 14, 15 of "Energy Efficiency in Air Transportation" by Arturo Benito,
Gustavo Alonso. Table 2.3 gives MJ/pkm for the US. Fig 2.8 next page gives
ranges of efficiency for both passenger and freight.

[https://books.google.com/books?id=jJGZDgAAQBAJ&printsec=fron...](https://books.google.com/books?id=jJGZDgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=energy+efficiency+by+transportation+mode&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjrt9nIucblAhWEpFkKHRfvBFgQ6AEwAHoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=energy%20efficiency%20by%20transportation%20mode&f=false)

Back when "peak oil" was a thing, I was in several discussions about what it
would take to electrify the US transportation networks, both passenger and
freight, but I have not worked in transportation planning. Hydrogen-fueled
intercity buses will be much easier to implement than anything else,
especially if they are autonomous to reduce driver costs.

~~~
tyfon
Thanks for the source.

It only lists raw energy use and not greenhouse gas emissions though. I'm a
bit surprised since the tables I've seen have train emission at the very
bottom, but most of what I have seen is from Europe but we run diesel trains
here in Norway too (in the north) and the tracks are not straight at all!

------
yostrovs
The greatest impact would be if the ship companies would join in. Imagine the
carbon output reduction of a large chunk of air travel moved to the sea
instead.

~~~
jedimastert
How long would a passenger ship take to get from Europe to the US today? Not
like a lux cruise ship, but like a ship who main purpose is transportation.
Does anything like that even exist anymore? I know cargo ships are an
important part of world infrastructure, but those don't really do "civilians"

~~~
timthorn
Current record is 2d 20h 9m for a passenger catamaran:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hales_Trophy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hales_Trophy)

------
pjc50
[http://archive.is/gQ7wY](http://archive.is/gQ7wY) to bypass the signup and
private mode walling.

------
buboard
How much does a transatlantic rail bridge cost?

~~~
gumby
Not really cost effective when you can just build a much shorter one across
the Bering sea

Travel time from the British isles is a bit longer I admit but the route has
been valuable for longer.

------
kortilla
(In Europe). This doesn’t have anything to do with the mostly freight and
nearly passenger-useless rail network in the US.

~~~
jessaustin
In Europe private rail firms are eager to attract customers. In USA the
government agency that is mandated by Congress to screw up rail travel is not
so eager.

~~~
sneeze-slayer
All of the European rail companies I can think of off the top of my head
(Germany, France, Spain, UK) are owned by the government, so it is possible.

It seems like only in the USA is there the notion that the government is
completely unable to function on its own.

~~~
jessaustin
Most European nations, and certainly the ones under discussion, are more
democratic than USA. It isn't as though Amtrak is failing in the mission
assigned to it by those who control Congress and the long-term bureaucracy. It
is only failing to do what most USA residents would like it to do: make USA
rail travel better, more convenient, less expensive.

I'm not saying that private firms in USA don't suffer the authority of TPTB,
but they suffer it much less directly than most state-owned enterprises.

------
ekianjo
Funny since most electricity powering trains is made with CO2 generating
processes worldwide. The only exception being maybe France because of very
large nuclear power presence. For the rest, it is basically coal, gas and
burning hydrocarbons to power trains.

~~~
i_am_proteus
This assertion is reductive and somewhat false.

Rail is the most energy-efficient method of hauling freight over land (where
no water route is available), and electric trains are powered, on average, by
whatever powers the regional grid. For countries besides France, such as the
USA, Germany, or Norway, which get a sizeable portion of their energy from
carbon-free sources, electric rail is a reasonably low carbon compared to
trucking, and perhaps even compared to barge.

~~~
Merrill
In the US, electrification of rail is very expensive, since bridges were not
built to allow installation of overhead catenaries. Third-rail electrification
is inefficient for freight and it interferes with operation of container well
cars, e.g. in the Long Island Rail Road.

~~~
kaybe
The usual solution for streetcars is to install a battery big enough to power
the vehicle over the longest gaps. Is that unfeasible for trains?

~~~
dredmorbius
Traction units throughout the trainset would mean only a subset of locomotion
units are unpoeered at a time. Only very long bridges would require catenary
refits.

Freight rail would require immense batteries.

------
LargoLasskhyfv
What a stupid fluff piece...

Meanwhile, somewhere in the 'Ruhrpott':

[1]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Datteln](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Datteln)
[2]
[https://www.uniper.energy/de/datteln-4](https://www.uniper.energy/de/datteln-4)

a new coal generating plant for 'Bahnstrom' is being built against the law,
the moving off of coal, with much corruption, while having a defective boiler,
which cost them 210 Mio € so far.

Ha! YEAH! Paint it _GREEN_!

