
Ask HN: What if JavaScript isn't the solution to everything - londondev45
It&#x27;s starting to feel like the JavaScript &#x27;ecosystem&#x27; is broken. Especially npm and the proliferation of small libraries written by inexperienced developers. When is the industry going to move on? Angular is a behemoth.<p>If the idea is to simplify with modules, I think they miss the point. The &#x27;old&#x27; server side libraries, flask, ror, even .net MVC look elegant and simple in comparison.<p>When will this stupidity end?
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psyc
If you stop thinking like a front-end web dev, and take a step back from the
whole thing, the status quo is truly insane and embarrassing. A many-billion
dollar, world changing industry has been exclusively constrained to _one_
dynamically-typed, weird language cooked up by one guy in a hurry, over 20
years ago.

How can such a phenomenon even exist, without programmers falling over
themselves to create a development ecosystem with compilers and multiple
language paradigms? The best answer I can come up with is that the history of
web development is rooted in a culture that cares only about product design,
user experience, and making a million dollars fast. It took a long time for
systems programmers to get interested enough to provide the perspective of,
well, a systems programmer.

It _could_ be argued that not rocking the boat, and just accepting JS as the
standard unconditionally, helped the web succeed. I don't agree with that. I
don't see how having a good execution environment in the browser in 2004 could
possibly have hurt the web.

~~~
speg
Because it would have only worked for half the users. HTML/CSS/JS support
parity across the browsers is a relatively new thing. If IE had python support
and Firefox supported Ruby, what would have all the websites been written in?

It's kind of a messy miracle that that didn't happen and we got to where we
are today. Now, with established standards support WebAssembly might be the
next step you're looking for.

~~~
true_religion
I may be the minority but I don't consider it a burden to need more than one
app for something. Even today people have installed a half dozen chat apps to
keep up with friends on different networks. If half the sites require Firefox
and half Chrome then that's still only two apps enabling dozens of web apps
for daily use.

~~~
progval
It wouldn't be half/half, because many websites would then abstain from using
a scripting language at all. Maybe more something like 90% pure HTML/CSS, 5%
Firefox, 5% Chrome?

~~~
douche
> 90% pure HTML/CSS

Like in the good old days

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tumblen
The javascript ecosystem is feeling better than ever to me right now.

The only reason that people are getting "javascript fatigue" and complaining
that JS is being used for everything is because _so many_ people are working
so hard to improve and innovate the language/ecosystem... and so many people
are actually finding applicable benefit to that work.

I've built several native iOS apps in Ruby with RubyMotion - no one was upset
about Ruby fatigue or that Ruby is being used in a new context... Because why
would they? There's nothing to complain about! It's just a product created by
people working hard to provide value in a new way.

And that's what people are doing in the JS world too. There's just way more of
them and way more people using and applying that work, so it starts to feel
overwhelming. But that is not the fault of the language or the community.

No one is forcing anyone to use any language or framework. No one is forcing
anyone to use any particular software. Pick the ones best for your needs — why
pull down all the people working so hard on JS along the way?

~~~
ZanrielJames
The job market right now is pretty heavily skewed towards the whole JS stack,
so your last comment is almost like "nobody's got to use the internet".

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jwdunne
Well, with Webassembly en route, there is a future where we can use whatever
language we like if the can target WebAsm.

Currently​, there is only support for manual memory management but there are
plans to expand with GC.

There is certainly a horizon for expansion. We are already seeing this with
languages that compile to JS. Perhaps WebAsm will provide the substrate for
better engineered languages and code.

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carsongross
Javascript is always dramatically overused at the top of every market cycle:
DHTML in 1999, Web 2.0 in 2008, Angular/React/etc now. This too shall pass.
And then reappear, worse.

If you are truly sick of javascript, I have something for you:

[http://intercoolerjs.org](http://intercoolerjs.org)

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k__
What if it is?

JS isn't that bad, the ecosystem big enough to avoid the small libs written by
n00bs and easy to acces s thanks to npm. Npm isn't perfect, but better than
what most languages have.

Many people already know JS and it's pretty much the easiest language to get
started with, you just need a browser and an editor.

Most people don't use the best solution for a problem because often nobody
knows what this would be, so they use what they know and make things work.

English is certainly not the best language for the world, still most people
speak it and make things work.

~~~
danieltillett
Any suggestion on which human language is better than English?

~~~
atfd
By certain measures, one might say 'German'.

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pryelluw
No language or technology is the solution to everything. In fact, they all
suck in one form or another. Your job is to pick those that fit the problem at
hand well. That's why learning multiple languages, and designs. _You_ are the
one size fits most solution. Study and learn and the feeling of everything
being stupid should be reduced (never gone but thats good).

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hasenj
Madness never ends. You can be sane and stick to few well engineered libraries
and ignore the hype.

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mdholloway
You can avoid the marginal libraries written by inexperienced developers, you
know.

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sitkack
I'd probably have to re-evaluate all of my life choices. This question is just
too hard to consider.

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fidz
Why this was flagged?

~~~
Can_Not
OP thinks pretends like Angular is the only JS library, obviously did zero
research (expressjs is like flask), then baits further with "When will this
stupidity end?"

