
P3: Pandemic Prevention Platform (2017) - hdivider
https://www.darpa.mil/program/pandemic-prevention-platform
======
dvirsky
Another story about this, sounds remarkable: [https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-
human-os/biomedical/bionics/da...](https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-human-
os/biomedical/bionics/darpas-firebreak-treatment-for-the-coronavirus)

------
hdivider
More detail:

[https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2020/03/us-military-
sc...](https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2020/03/us-military-scientists-
hope-have-coronavirus-therapeutic-summer/163659/)

[https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a31405691...](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a31405691/darpa-
covid-19-coronavirus/)

~~~
ASalazarMX
Thank you. Since the publication isn't even dated, it could have been written
30 years ago because it's only buzzword soup.

Example:

> A principal benefit of the nucleic-acid-based approach to limiting the
> spread of infection is that genetic constructs introduced into the body
> would process quickly and not integrate into an individual’s genome.
> Similarly, the antibodies produced in response to treatment would only be
> present in the body for weeks to months. This is consistent with DARPA's
> intent to safely deliver transient immunity, halting the spread of disease
> by creating a firewall, and buying time for longer-term medical responses to
> be developed and deployed.

~~~
dang
[https://web.archive.org/web/20170411172941/https://www.darpa...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170411172941/https://www.darpa.mil/program/pandemic-
prevention-platform) exists, so we can go back at least to 2017 above.

------
Animats
Actual request for proposals: [1] This was much more than a study. The winners
had to be able to construct antibodies for five viruses. Trying to find more
info. Hard; "fbo.gov" has been moved to "sam.gov", for no obvious reason, and
the older documents lost.

[1]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20170710035550/https://www.fbo.g...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170710035550/https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=2235783b6b12551d4847c321b5c1307b)

------
DrAwdeOccarim
So this has already been tested in humans:
[https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-
release-d...](https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-
details/moderna-announces-positive-phase-1-results-first-systemic)

"Antibody level predicted to protect against chikungunya infection achieved
within hours; projected to be maintained for at least 16 weeks at the middle
and high doses"

------
matmann2001
Can someone translate this from tactical to English?

~~~
m0zg
"We've got bupkis".

~~~
killjoywashere
We had decades of smart thinking about this, and forsaw the need 3 years ago
based on Ebola. Things are now in trial, so if it's 2020 and you're reading
this, sorry, the funding is already committed. Better luck next time. Keep
your ear to ground and move faster.

~~~
m0zg
I wish I could share your optimism, but after watching the congressional
testimony I think we're pretty fucked. I think we should just shut down the
CDC and FDA (when this is over), and start from scratch with an agency focused
on addressing epidemics and pandemics, as well as quick drug approvals.

The incompetence is pretty obvious and staggering, and as per Fauci's
testimony, the CDC is not designed for the crisis we are now experiencing.
That is, to unpack this, the Center for Disease Control is not designed for
disease control. He's clearly a formidable scientist, but it's also clear that
mismanagement at the agencies is pretty rampant.

They were asked point blank several times why we still can't test even the
frontline medical staff, and they did not have an answer. This is 100%
thoroughly fucked up beyond repair.

~~~
pengaru
Isn't a significant part of why we're fucked the gutting of ... everything, by
this administration?

e.g. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/us-
coronavirus...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/us-coronavirus-
budget-cuts-trump-underprepared)

~~~
m0zg
Not really. The proposed CDC funding cuts have been overruled by Congress. In
fact the CDC gets more funding now than at any point under Obama (who BTW,
also tried to cut the budget several times; e.g. 2015 CDC budget is $243M less
than 2014), and this year's budget is larger than last year. It's not the lack
of funds. It's total mismanagement.

$7B+/yr and we get 70 people tested per day as thousands are being infected,
and hundreds are about to die.

IMO their funding should be cut to zero for this, and reallocated to people
who know how to do this kind of thing. You can find such people at WHO.

[https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104](https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104)

~~~
pengaru
There's a complete lack of leadership in handling this pandemic in large part
because this incompetent administration disbanded the national security team
global health security and biodefense directorate.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-
health/wp/2018/0...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-
health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-
exits-abruptly/)

~~~
m0zg
Care to explain why there was lack of leadership in 2009 when 57 million
Americans got infected with H1N1? Or why Ebola response was also botched?
There seems to be a long history of incompetence here. You can't fix
incompetence by giving the incompetent more money or keeping them around.

~~~
geofft
Neither of those responses were botched, sorry.

And yes, you can in fact fix incompetence by giving the incompetent
organization more money. Organizations are made up of people, and those people
have varying levels of competence, and the set of people isn't fixed, either.
Sometimes you have competent ICs begging for funding and incompetent managers
who can't present the case for it. Sometimes you have competent managers who
don't have enough budget to hire competent ICs at salaries competitive with
industry. Sometimes everyone is competent but too afraid of risking their job
to speak out against structures or processes that prevent them from doing
their best work. If you think there's _corruption_ , that's a different
matter, but if it's just incompetence, throwing more money at the problem
sounds like a fantastic plan.

~~~
m0zg
Ah, but you see, the CDC took it upon itself to fight Ebola in Africa. And
that part went as well as you'd expect after seeing their current performance:
they're still dealing with it, years later.

------
DrScientist
Essentially you go from recovering patient to 20,000 therapeutic doses in
60-90 days.

Note it is _not_ a vaccine - a vaccine is something like part of a virus that
then drives an immune response ( body evolves antibodies against it ) - here
you are taking an antibody sequence you know works and directly putting that
in the body and genetically programming the body to make it.

Here's how:

\- find and clone the patients own antibody that allowed them to recover.

\- deliver that antibody in nucleic acid form to new patients so they can make
the antibody themselves.

The idea is to be able to produce enough doses quickly enough to protect front
line staff in the containment phase.

As the antibody has already been discovered by the recovering patient, you can
use single cell screening and cloning to retrieve the particular antibody
gene.

The second step avoids many many months of building and scaling a protein
manufacturing process ( though manufacturing steps still exist ).

It's a new technology and so carries some unknowns - but in the case of
pandemic then you could argue these are justified.

There has already been a proof of principal run through and a number of
companies were able to deliver proof of concepts within the timescale. The
next question is how well these work in people.

~~~
DrAwdeOccarim
It works well in humans: [https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-
release-d...](https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-
details/moderna-announces-positive-phase-1-results-first-systemic)

Main finding was at the high dose, there were some adverse events but no
serious adverse events, and they all self-resolved without intervention. At
the lower doses (0.3 and 0.1mpk), it still provided months of protection
against infection assuming the "protective level" is accurate.

~~~
DrScientist
Yep - it can work.

However, normally there is a long and potentially winding road between a phase
1, through phases II & III to a successful market launch.

~~~
DrAwdeOccarim
Yes, of course, but when one signs up for the military they can inject you
with whatever they want. The FDA does not get involved. Combine that with an
EUA, and all of a sudden you are injecting them and the nat sec apparatus 6
months from now if things get bad.

[https://www.upi.com/Archives/1991/01/31/Military-allowed-
to-...](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1991/01/31/Military-allowed-to-
administer-unapproved-drugs/8455665298000/)

[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-
resources/pdf/2018-Influenz...](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-
resources/pdf/2018-Influenza-Guidance.pdf)

------
vharuck
I don't remember hearing anything about the US military being involved in the
recent Ebola outbreak, so is this an existing program or a proposal?

~~~
ChristianGeek
Read “The Hot Zone” by Richard Preston. Great book about the origins of Ebola
that culminates in an outbreak in Reston, VA that was primarily handled by the
military. (The only reason you haven’t heard more about his particular
outbreak is that it turned out to be a strain that only affected monkeys (450
at a scientific research holding facility in this case).

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385479565](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385479565)

------
wespiser_2018
Disease prevention has been in DARPAs wheelhouse for a while now. While in
grad school, a couple groups at my school worked on a project to predict the
future evolution of influenza, so the vaccine order in March will be relevant
to the strains dominate in November. [https://www.darpa.mil/news-
events/2016-06-13a](https://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2016-06-13a) The last
time I heard an update, it was that prediction was very difficult as
unpredictable random mutation was dominating strain evolution.

~~~
DrScientist
As the military often go to 'exotic' places, they are have long been at the
forefront of wanting to treat 'tropical' diseases.

Also with the military setup - lots of people living together in barracks -
infectious diseases have a high risk of spreading rapidly.

------
crime
This explains it better:
[https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a31405691...](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a31405691/darpa-
covid-19-coronavirus/)

------
m3kw9
It all sounds good but I’m not sure if they could do all that in 60 days with
human trials needed to test actual efficiency, toxicity, etc. If you are
talking about just a candidate drug yeah, that is possible with today’s tech.

~~~
casefields
They are 2 for 2 already:

>The teams have proven they can meet this ambitious timeline in previous
trials using the influenza and Zika viruses.

~~~
m3kw9
What happened to 3? This virus

------
OceanSunfish
These briefs don't mention it by name, but this technology seems like "DNA
Vaccination" that has been in research for some years.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_vaccination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_vaccination)

~~~
DrAwdeOccarim
This isn't vaccination, it's coding and expression of the antibody(s) your
body would take weeks/months to make from a vaccination that neutralize the
pathogenic target from dosing. It's a stop-gap to prevent infection, but does
not offer memory response from resident B-cells/plasma cells.

------
terrislinenbach
That's working well

------
fraud
yeah, this is crazy... starting to get out of hand

------
pts_
Militarized gene therapy.

------
brrrrr1
With all due respect - does anyone believe the US army can deal with a
pandemic? I mean you cant just shoot a huge number of weapons and kill it.
That army hasn’t even been able to win wars against tribes, how can it win
against a virus? I get it, there is a lot of PR surrounding it, but a pandemic
is a real issue that requires science not dumb muscle. Somehow I believe the
US and its army are the opposite of a solution to such an issue.

~~~
bluGill
For many years it has been a worry of any competent military that the enemy is
going to release a bio-weapon. As such every army is be preparing for
something. They won't know what exactly is coming, but they have processes in
place to deal with it as best they can. That means supplies in place, and
people training in using them - it might mean a generic gas mask instead of a
N95 filter, but it will get the job done.

The army is also well trained in securing an area. Need to enforce no travel,
the army learns that in basic training.

Again, this isn't about the US army, it is about any competent military in the
current world. Limited of course by their budget.

------
thefounder
Everyone stay calm now; we have a Coronavirus Shield!

~~~
pacificmint
Note that neither the article nor the headline mention a "Coronavirus shield".
That's just the HN headline. In fact, the article never even mentions the
Coronavirus at all.

The article headline is "Pandemic Prevention Platform (P3)"

Mods, maybe change it to that?

~~~
hdivider
Good point. Changed it. Got the DARPA press release title confused with the
popular mechanics article. :) Thanks.

------
boltzmannbrain
Bueller?... Bueller?...

~~~
djbelieny
I LOLed hard at this one.

~~~
djbelieny
Wow... Four down votes for laughing at a funny comment... Jeez....

