
It’s a bad time to be a hacker in the United States - treskot
http://pandodaily.com/2013/01/17/its-a-bad-time-to-be-a-hacker-in-the-united-states/
======
jasonkester
_To many, a hacker is anyone who does something with a computer that is not
trivially understood. To law-enforcement and the criminal justice system, a
hacker is someone who commits a computer-involved crime._

So to clarify, it's actually still a great time to be the former. It's not
now, nor has it really ever been, a good time (or a good idea) to be the
latter.

The rest of the article seems to just be an explanation of why that is.

~~~
jessaustin
_To many, a hacker is anyone who does something with a computer that is not
trivially understood. To law-enforcement and the criminal justice system, a
hacker is someone who commits a computer-involved crime._

"To law-enforcement and the criminal justice system" the former criterion
implies the latter.

~~~
tedunangst
Citation needed. Are they picking up random Haskell programmers off the street
now?

~~~
BCM43
Well, I've yet to hear of any Haskell programmers being picked up , but Moxie
Marlinspike and Jacob Applebalm have both been harassed repeatedly despite no
evidence of any wrongdoing on either of their parts.

~~~
tedunangst
Applebaum's difficulties don't stem from any misunderstood technical magic
afaik. The popo don't like what he's doing, but I think they understand it
quite well.

------
snowwrestler
Why does anyone continue to give Adrian Lamo a platform? He is like the Kim
Kardashian of computer security--he's famous for being famous. I'm not aware
of any evidence that he knows what he is talking about, particularly when it
comes to various criminal penalties (he gets these blatantly wrong).

Edit to add example: Lamo says

>To put this into some kind of perspective, if Swartz had committed violent
battery of a Supreme Court justice or a member of Congress he would have
faced, at most, a year locked up in the pen — as long as he didn’t use a
deadly weapon.

The maximum prison sentence for aggravated assault in DC is actually 10 years.
And if you use a deadly weapon, it adds an _additional_ maximum penalty of
life in prison.

~~~
georgemcbay
I wish I had known Lamo wrote this before I graced it with a click.

He's also the guy who turned in Bradley Manning (after convincing Manning he
could communicate with him in confidence since he was a priest).

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n3rdy
_I’ve also worked the other side of the fence, working with law enforcement
and the US Government on computer-involved national security issues, most
notably in the apprehension of Bradley Manning for leaking military and
diplomatic secrets to Wikileaks._

This isn't something to be proud of.

~~~
mpyne
Why? I ask this because many politically-minded hackers are under the
misapprehension that Bradley Manning was purely a whistleblower, which is not
the case.

~~~
georgemcbay
My thoughts on Bradley Manning are more complicated than the simplistic "Free
Bradley!" or "Hang Bradley!" extremes one often sees when it comes to that
case.

I don't fully support what he did and I think he was wrong to do it in the
manner in which he did and thus he deserves _some_ punishment. I also think he
stands as an unfortunate symbol of how the idea of the writ of habeas corpus
is completely dead in America, which sucks.

As it relates to Lamo, though, I think it is clear that the way Lamo went
about convincing Manning to reveal what he had done while convincing him that
he (Lamo) was a journalist and priest and thus Manning would be protected from
disclosure was hugely unethical and marks him as one of the great asshats of
all time.

~~~
mpyne
I think the concern about habeus corpus is valid, but more for those like the
Gitmo detainees than Pfc. Manning _per se_. He leaked classified information,
and having to build an entire legal infrastructure and trial around that
properly, without having any eventual sentence thrown out on a technicality,
is going to take time and effort. Let's face it, if it were up the Army he'd
already be convicted and spending the next couple of decades at least playing
cards at Ft. Leavenworth.

As far as Lamo, I agree in general with the description of asshattery. But
still, if Manning actually thought Lamo were a priest then I have to wonder
about his capacity for critical thinking. And either way, I find it at least a
bit ironic that Lamo managed to extract accurate information from Manning,
under false pretenses, immediately after Manning extracted accurate
information from the U.S. Government, under false pretenses. But only one of
those two swore to protect the information in question under penalty of law.

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nnq
This is the "meat" imho:

> A law becomes unjust when a person of ordinary — or even extraordinary —
> intelligence cannot readily predict what charges might arise from a given
> activity.

...if I were to commit armed robbery, I could easily find out what law I would
be breaking and what kind of prison sentence I'd get. With infosec and IP
laws, you'll never know how they could be wielded against you!

------
duaneb
Look, I'm all for better laws and such, but most of what constitutes being a
hacker (in the HN sense) doesn't even approach illegality. I think it's never
been a better time to be a hacker.

~~~
nmb
" _most of what constitutes being a hacker (in the HN sense) doesn't even
approach illegality_ "

I wouldn't say that. As an example, many companies in the (very crowded) data-
storage or file-sharing space spend a lot of money on legal fees to cover
their asses (or do damage control) in case of copyright violation when someone
decides to share the latest DVD rip using their service. There are many other
examples like this. People in our field are constantly exploring the limits of
what we can and can't do with technology in the context of laws that were
created without these uses in mind. True, it has never been a better time to
be a hacker, but I think when/if we have all these issues sorted out it will
be even better.

------
kaonashi
It's a bad time to be a whistleblower too.

~~~
yuvadam
It's a bad time to be any agent acting against the plutocracy that rules the
world as it is today.

------
EliRivers
It certainly is with people like the author dropping the dime.

~~~
rdl
I can't imagine Adrian or someone else in his position not doing exactly the
same thing. Remember, he's a convicted felon, and had every reason to suspect
he was still a target.

A totally random person IMs you out of the blue, talking recklessly about
crimes he'd committed, and trying to elicit your support and confirmation of
understanding and support in furtherance of acts previously and ongoingly
committed. Even if you support some of his motives, you'd be wise to either
report it (as Adrian did), or, at the very least, make it clear you neither
understood nor supported the actions. Otherwise, you're part of a conspiracy,
and thus even more fucked.

The guy could either be an informant trying to entrap you, or at least had
such recklessness that he'd approach someone and be reported/caught later, so
you'd be at risk if you cooperated in any way.

There could be a slight difference if you were a protected party (someone's
lawyer, priest, spouse, doctor) and if the crime were not something which
carried a duty to report.

(IANAL)

~~~
andrewcooke
in which case, maybe you could say "dude, fuck off" and close the session?

~~~
rdl
"Sorry dude, I have no fucking idea what you're saying, plus you're a dick" is
probably safer. They'd have to show you both understood and agreed with the
action, but it's hard to prove that, especially if you started the
conversation by not being a dick.

It's fun/scary reading the transcript and figuring out at what point you'd do
what. If it were a random person IMing me from Iraq, I'd probably be friendly
to start out.

The safest thing is to end the conversation before any criminal acts are
discussed. I think it's also probably safer if you immediately switch to "you
should report that to law enforcement, it sounds like a crime" vs. just "the
fire, please die in it."

~~~
EliRivers
Did you just imagine doing something other than what AL did? Seems like "I
can't imagine Adrian or someone else in his position not doing exactly the
same thing" didn't last long :)

~~~
rdl
I'm not a felon. AL is.

As a felon, I would err on the side of reporting criminal contacts.

(I personally also have an obligation to report compromises of classified
data, too, so I would have reported this.)

~~~
EliRivers
And yet a great, great many convicted felons do not report criminal contacts.
I point to the number of convicted felons who go on to commit another felony
in company of other criminals. Furthermore, I am led to believe that a culture
of physical violence towards informants means that a felon who reports on
other criminals is, frankly, asking for trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if
the majority of felons do not habitually inform on each other.

~~~
rdl
They like to make an example of computer criminals. Locking up a marginal
rapist, murderer, gang member, etc. doesn't serve any useful political purpose
-- it just makes crime stats look worse.

------
fatalerrorx3
Hackers should form security companies and offer hacking as a service. Many
private companies would rather pay a third party security firm a fixed price
to solve any vulnerabilities versus hiring a team of fulltime security experts
on their payroll.

~~~
rdl
Most of this is done through consultancies already.

------
Canada
Who cares what Lamo thinks

------
EvilLook
This piece was written by Adrian Lamo and can be summarized as follows:

faaaaaaaaaaarrrrttt, pffffffffffttttttttt, pffffffffffttttttt,
faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrttttt, innuendo, lies, bullshit, faaaaaaaaaaaartttt

