

FloJack: Bringing NFC to iPhone/iPad (kickstarter) - seats
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/flomio/flojack-nfc-for-ipad-and-iphone

======
themckman
The only compelling use case for this device appears to be for kiosk-esque
setups. For the casual user, it seems unlikely to catch on. I'm certainly not
going to carry that thing with me, pull it out, plug it it in, open the
FloJack app and tap one of those stickers to call my mom. This would be WAY
more compelling if the device would fit flush with the phone in some way such
that it'd be reasonable to keep it attached any time the headphone jack wasn't
in use. I could see it fitting around the backside of the phone, as there's
some pretty good real estate that could be covered without interfering with
any other function of the phone. Unfortunately, supporting the different
shapes of the target devices could get tricky.

~~~
chris11
NFC has a lot of potential, but right now it needs a lot more support from
industry. I found trying to spend money in my Google Wallet very frustrating.
Almost no store has nfc readers, and the one place that did have one didn't
have it working. I ended up contacting Google to get my balance refunded. So
right now an nfc reader would not have much use except as a toy. And kiosks
still have to deal with the fact that most people don't have nfc-enabled
phones. So all they would need is to get one of those portable credit card
readers. Right now the only nfc chips I regularly come into contact with are
in library books.

~~~
grundyoso
The FloJack aims to support the NFC ecosystem. It's hw compatible with any
device with a 3.5mm audio jack. It's the smallest -and lightest- full fledged
NFC reader on the market. And it's available for _anyone_ to buy (unlike
enterprise-only icarte, devicefidelity, twinlinx, roamdata, etc with their
"ask for quote" bs)

------
castles
In any NFC interaction, there's at least one reader involved. In the NFC world
people are dreaming of the day that all mobile phone's have nfc and these
interactions are reader on reader.

We are obviously a long way from that. Does this device make this a reality?
Will people be buying these, placing them in their pockets like headphones to
pull out when needed?

Unlikely, it's true.

However, there's no need to fixate on this. With some imagination, there's a
lot that can be one with the humble tag and nfc readers in the field.

Imagine at events or tradeshows, people were given wristbands. These
wristbands could have their email, phone number, VIP area access and even
drink credits attached. Hell, even their full facebook profile.

Booth holders could have checkin stations, where with a swipe wristbanders
could sign up to mailing lists, share contact info, or like a product on
facebook. People at concerts could get branded photos taken with "Listening to
$FAMOUS_ROCK_BAND's $FAMOUS_SONG"

Even if, there was 400M iOS devices that were going to spontaneously combust
the minute iPhone 6 with nfc was released. And even if, this product line only
had a useful life of one year, for developers it's still a year's evolution on
their NFC app.

It's about empowering apple devs NOW(ish)

------
hiddenstage
As an Android user, I love NFC and think it has a ton of potential.

That being said, FloJack seems to be inherently depreciated from inception. I
hope they reach their goal though.

------
Samuel_Michon
I like this idea, and I was about to back it, but then I read this:

 _"Q. What type of battery does the FloJack run on? A. The FloJack runs on a
standard 3V lithium cr2023 battery. You can find these at any grocery or
convenience store."_

Apparently, the dongle isn't powered by the host phone. No details were given
on how long the dongle lasts on one battery, but if it's shorter than several
months, I don't think this solution will catch on.

This thing looks like a round version of the Square card reader, a dongle that
also plugs into an iPhone's headphone jack but doesn't require its own power
source. So what gives?

If the headphone jack doesn't provide enough power for the NFC reader, perhaps
they should release one that connects to the Dock connector or Lightning
connector instead. Which of course does mean they'll have to deal with Apple.

~~~
grundyoso
Samuel, the power efficiency of the FloJack is first rate. The consumption per
polling interval is ~10uAs. On a 250mAh cr2032, this works out to about 90MM
polls. At the Android polling rate of 10Hz, the FloJack would last just over 3
months. Since FloJack's sleep mode kicks in when apps stop using it, we
estimate typical usage patterns will allow upwards of a year of battery life.

~~~
lysol
If they sip power that well, a battery should be included. Make the user
experience that much better.

~~~
grundyoso
A battery is indeed included with each FloJack. Thanks for the feedback, we'll
add that to the KS project page.

------
xanadohnt
I want to back this right now. I'm the creator of a mobile payments startup
much in the same vein as Venmo. The "killer" app, IMO, is the ability to
simply tap two devices together, enter an amount & pin, and ... profit! The
problem is I just can't see the adoption beyond closed, corporate
applications. What Square has going for it is only the payment-accepting party
needs to acquire the dongle. This is a captive audience and very incentivized
to adopt. No sweat. But with FloJack you're asking the general public to
acquire your dongle with little incentive. Tough. I can't think of anything,
but is there a possibility of only one side needing the dongle to participate
(the service provider - in my case - someone receiving payment) in a
transaction? Convince me otherwise and I'll be happy to back. I'm also happy
to discuss details off HN.

~~~
auston
The way I think of NFC is in two models:

1\. Reader centric - where everything revolves around the reader, as in using
this reader for NFC payments. You can use passive tags, like stickers, key
chains, wristbands etc to scan. Associate data with these tags via the cloud.

2\. Tag centric - where everything revolves around the tag & it is a dynamic
thing, which also seems possible with this flojack device. I'm less of a fan
of this because of the problems you noted above - it's just a hassle to get
people activated in this model.

I think the first model satisfies your requirement of only one side needing
the dongle to participate.

------
winkerVSbecks
Why is it so huge? Makes it pointless in my opinion, no way I'm carrying that
around. Surely this can achieved in a smaller form factor.

~~~
grundyoso
The FloJack bill of materials consists of only 54 parts, of which the cr2032
battery tray is the largest by far. We chose this design because these
batteries are inexpensive and easy to find. Creating a more streamline form
factor with a 3D printer that draws power from the iPhone bottom connector is
trivial and something we're exploring. How much would you be willing to pay
for it?

------
xoail
It's just matter of time for Apple to include it built-in. They (Apple) dont
see value in it yet, but that doesnt mean they dont have plans. Agree that
this will open up a lot of possibilities.

~~~
DGCA
I'll piggy back on you comment, since mine is very similar. I don't see this
as a worthwhile product for more than a year. This is purely speculative but
Apple will implement this tech themselves, if it catches on, or they'll
release something similar and exclusive to the iPhone (highly doubt the
latter). My gut tells me that iPhone 6 will roll out with NFC, and this
product will die the second it does.

~~~
metamatt
Flomio was doing other NFC stuff before this, and considering the mentions of
the SDK on the kickstarter page, I think that's their real play. I think
they'd be perfectly happy in a world where this product isn't necessary. In
the meantime, this is necessary to drag Apple devices into the small but
growing ecosystem (and the utility of the NFC ecosystem is largely driven by a
network effect, so this bootstrapping is important).

------
gqgy
$80k goal sounds slightly modest for a mass consumer tech product like
FloJack. Anyways, I would definitely get it. That is, until Apple themselves
don't somehow implement this.

Best of luck to you guys. I always root for Kickstarter companies. (Note:
working on a site that can help you guys pump hype into your project
<http://www.hypejar.com/FloJack>).

------
aantix
I'm staring at the page and wondering "WTF is NFC"? And it's not till 1/3 down
the page.

And then the possibilities opened up by this magical NFC aren't listed for
another 2/3's down the page (Launch your favorite iOS Apps, Open URLs, Play
YouTube videos).

Ugh, horrible sales pitch. Sell me immediately on the possibilities of NFC
upfront.

~~~
timoronan
thanks for feedback aantix. I'm glad you got through the whole page though.
man... we went through so many iterations, writes, re-writes, addressed a ton
of constructive feedback, and at one point when the haze cleared, a weary
finger extended and pressed launch. not dismissing your comment or our hard
work. we did good.

------
tehwebguy
I need 75 of these ASAP, anyone know these guys?

~~~
amarcus
You can also check out <http://www.icarte.ca> \- it's an iphone cover that
provides rfid/nfc

One of Australia's largest Banks uses it
(<http://www.commbank.com.au/mobile/commbank-kaching/>)

~~~
sturmeh
Indeed, slightly more practical than a dongle, however it doesn't support NDEF
and other cool NFC actions.

Android handles NFC so well!

------
isaacwaller
Probably the most important use case for such a device is payments / PayPass -
does it support card emulation?

~~~
grundyoso
The FloJack supports all 3 NFC modes: Discovery (R/W), Card Emulation, and
Peer to Peer. Payments is messy. There are two types: Closed-loop and Open-
loop. The FloJack supports closed-loop via cloud payments, but for open-loop
you need a tamper-proof secure module which we couldn't manage to fit in. We
are working on new devices that will support open-loop payments, so email
info@flomio.com if you want to learn more.

------
gokulk
Apple is probably going to launch it in its next generation or the one after
that... why would some one buy a 3rd party component after that.. I don't
think anyone buys a bluetooth dongle for an iPhone just cause it lets them do
more things...

~~~
metamatt
Even more than that, if this is a success it could even increase the
likelihood that Apple adds native NFC capabilities to their devices, by
demonstrating that it's useful (and to whom and for what).

Like a couple others have said in this thread, I think this is more about
bootstrapping an ecosystem driven by network effects -- the more people adopt
it and the sooner, the more useful it becomes and the more likely it is to
actually go mainstream.

Flomio isn't just selling this device; look at the higher reward levels --
they're also selling an SDK and cloud analytics infrastructure -- I think
they'd be perfectly happy if nobody needed this because it was built in.

~~~
gokulk
yes I think that would be a much bigger advantage over their competitors

------
xoail
Seriously, Google should fund this whole project and make it work with Google
Wallet.

~~~
tlrobinson
I'd rather carry a credit card than a dongle I have to plug in and launch an
app each time I want to pay...

~~~
auston
agreed, but i think this was designed in a world where you have static/passive
nfc tag like this: [http://nfctags.tagstand.com/collections/nfc-
kits/products/nf...](http://nfctags.tagstand.com/collections/nfc-
kits/products/nfc-task-launcher-pack-6-tags) & you have the dynamic part "in
the cloud".

------
calvin
Is $80,000 a realistic amount of money to launch a project as ambitious as
this one? With multiple employees and a large need for hardware and
manufacturing, I don't see how this is enough to kickstart the product.

------
nateweiss
Looking forward to getting this thing. My first kickstart pledge, kinda
excited about that too.

