
99designs: Need something designed (logo, ...)? Crowdsource it. - chaostheory
http://99designs.com/
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huhtenberg
Gotta love designers outsourcing their own logo design.

<http://99designs.com/contests/6884>

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vlad
Text from under one of the contests linked in this thread, from a designer,
posted 1 hour ago:

since there is no forum here, I have to post it here. after 200 designs,
seeing many of my idea's incorperated into other peoples designs, and some do
it be better, but still. I have decided to leave, no more free idea's from me
for the other more experienced designers. The game is over, I unsubscribe, if
I can figure out how, and leave it for what it is. The site owners make money
on it now (39 credits a pop) , designers got free idea's, and I make more
money now locally then I ever would make here. (like zero until now.;o) ) So I
bid you all a farewell, it was an experiment for me, and I must say, with a
negativ result. I wish all the designers a good time here, and many profits,
it was a different experience and it was fun when it was free, also for the
contest holders, but for now, I am gone. cheerio.

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joshwa
<http://www.no-spec.com/>

~~~
goofygrin
I think you were trying to post to the article about these "contest" sites
being possibly illegal.

You know, this is a case where I think that the laws, if being broken, should
be broken.

I think that these sites are more like "submitting a request for comps and
receiving them" more than a "contest."

Now if people are running these "contests" and not fulfilling their end of the
bargain, then they are bastards and should be caned.

But for people in developing countries with great design skills (or people in
developed countries that are looking for experience) these "contests" provide
a much greater potential for income that they normally wouldn't get.

I think that a lot of this whining about the legality and "morality" of these
sites and contests by the establishment (in this case the design firms and
professional designers) is simply a case of them being afraid of lower cost
alternatives (that might be better than them!).

This may be another case of p2p and digital music vs. the recording industry
and the RIAA. There will be some losers (napster) but the cat is already out
of the bag.

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joshwa
What's the difference between this site and saying to a hacker:

"Make a web application to my specs, please. Do it a few different ways so I
have options. If I don't like it, I won't use it, but I won't pay for it,
either."

Some industries do follow this model (e.g. architecture, design, custom
enterprise SW), but the business case for proposals/POCs/loss-leaders can only
be justified when:

(# of proposals generated) x (cost of work to produce proposals) < (value of
awarded contracts) - (cost to fulfill contracts)

However, with contest sites/spec work, that equation only makes sense if you
value your time (costs) at close to zero, since the ratio of proposals
generated to awarded contracts is so lopsided.

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chaostheory
as I've already mentioned in another post, this isn't new for programmers;
It's been around for years. (Correct me if I'm wrong but Google map's origins
can be traced to one) Here are a few examples:

<http://code.google.com/android/adc.html>

<http://www.netflixprize.com/>

We're still fine, and I'm not mad about it either. It's not like companies
like Google and Netflix are forcing people to code at gun point. There is
choice involved. If contests cause my work situation to change for the worse,
then I adapt (or get lazy and become obsolete...)

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joshwa
Except that entries to those contests have value that isn't tied directly to
the contest-giver-- android apps can be resold independently, and netflixprize
entrants are developing machine learning algorithms that have tremendous value
(and it's open-source, IIRC, which is a whole different kettle of fish).

In a logo design competition, the elements cannot (easily) be resold or
repurposed, since they are specific to the specs of a particular client.

Also, winning one the Android or Netfliz prizes confers lots of value in terms
of publicity, which can't be said of 10,000 small logo competitions.

One other note: Rentacoder, for instance, has specific rules prohibiting
posting design comps or source code to prevent uncompensated work.

~~~
chaostheory
well program submissions for contests can take weeks or months to develop...
logo contests typically only last for a few days at most.

the price of entry isn't as much comparatively and again it's by choice

besides its not like u can't take off the company's name and just include the
design in your portfolio. it still has some value

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gojomo
Another nice site in this contest-design space is DesignOutpost,
<http://www.designoutpost.com> .

I'm often impressed with the variety of good designs which show up for just
$100-300 prize money.

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vlad
Yes, they were the first who started this. I used them 3-4 years ago with good
results (actually, all submissions were terrible except for one, but that one
was good.) I bought a good but available domain name in case I ever wanted to
make their idea into a web app.

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bouncingsoul
I would feel kinda lame making 30+ people spend several hours working for me
and then not paying them anything.

~~~
jsmcgd
You aren't making anyone do anything. They choose to participate. If they
think it's a bum deal, they don't have to do it.

~~~
Tichy
What ARE they thinking, though? I mean, either they are not thinking, or they
should think it is a bum deal?

Some alternatives come to mind, but none compelling in the long run:

\- I need to practice anyway (but not in the long run, hopefully)

\- I am the best and I will win (ok, maybe you deserve what you get)

\- I want to be a designer, but nobody will pay me anyway, so at least I get
to do my job for free (= ok, so it is a bum job, but I am a loser anyway, so I
can't expect anything better).

~~~
chaostheory
it's like saying that it's retarded to enter a programming contest, which I
disagree with

Yeah I do agree that it's best for people honing their skills and experience;
and for people living in low-cost places where payment in high value currency
is worth it (rentacoder, elance, ...). Hell maybe it's fun for some designers
like programming is fun for some programmers. What's wrong with that?

I'm still really confused over what I perceive to be antagonism towards
contests (unless you own a mom & pop design firm)...

~~~
Tichy
Programming contest: yes, for students it is OK, that point I mentioned
("still need to practice"). After a while it becomes pointless.

"low-cost" places: well, if they want to continue living in low-cost places,
sure. But in general, even if you come from a cheap country, why should you be
forced to work for little money like that, instead of doing proper consulting?

Doing it for fun: sure, if you have the time... I just think it would probably
be more fun to do the same thing for real money and a real assignment. What in
the "contest" makes it more fun than working for the client directly?

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simianstyle
I always use something similar to this: <http://designoutpost.com>

There's no limit on the amount of design revisions you can get - it's over
when you're satisfied.

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lpgauth
What happens if none of the entries are right for you?

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chaostheory
I've never used the site, but I'm guessing since it's a contest - you pay for
the best design out of the contest entries:

<http://99designs.com/help/howitworks>

~~~
lancashire
Wow. I love this site just to see all the creative minds out there at work. I
got so excited I submitted my own design for the stackoverflow contest...

<http://99designs.com/contests/6774>

It's #180.

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goofygrin
Some of these designs look really good...

Bookmarking now since the price looks to be pretty "right" too!

~~~
chaostheory
yeah, Joel Spoelsky and Jeff Atwood thought so too:
<http://99designs.com/contests/6774>

it's what brought me to the site

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poppysan
This devalues a designers time and labor. This is HORRIBLE, and no designer or
programmer should stand behind it.

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mchang16
I suppose that using a site like this allows you to get a lot of designs to
choose from, but you can hire a designer (that you already know and trust) and
get a bunch of mock-ups that way, too. And they will likely work until your
satisfied.

~~~
goofygrin
My local design buddy charges $90/hr. If he keeps working until he's
satisfied, then I pay for it. Plus if he gets one design stuck in his head,
then it can be hard to get him to make a new design.

With this, you get the benefit of lots of people's input without an hourly
"tic" as they work on it. You never know what a fresh perspective will give
you!

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antidaily
Alot like <http://www.pixish.com>, eh?

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dignity34
These sites are popping up all over the place:
[http://www.killerstartups.com/Social-
Networking/eLogoContest...](http://www.killerstartups.com/Social-
Networking/eLogoContestcom---Design-Contest-Supersite/)

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dangoldin
Another site that does something similar is www.worth1000.com. The founders of
that site are doing <http://a.viary.com/> I believe.

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llimllib
I used Worth 1000 to run a logo contest, and it worked out well.
<http://www.worth1000.com/faq.asp#C40>

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locke_logan
aka <http://www.sitepoint.com/contest/>

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dc2k08
the problem with using this site is that, your competition can only last 7
days.

