
‘A Minefield’: How Scholars Who Don’t Drink Navigate the Conference Social Scene - petethomas
https://www.chronicle.com/article/A-Minefield-How/245441?key=nbhuwAvuzuO_LrP40ugFwKfuc3N2IpEOD0W02iRvfLnxy2isGT-9OrbKmfViIML6aTdrdk5aNFdEZmJSTFFaVXZfUHlqRVlUNzhoV2REZDBWRzg0S0lkT2Fnbw
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jedberg
I do drink, but sometimes I don't feel well enough to drink or I know I'm
going to have to drive right after the conference.

In those cases I just order water. No one has ever shamed me or even said
anything about the fact that I had a glass or bottle of water instead of a
drink.

This doesn't seem like a very hard problem to solve.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
> _No one has ever shamed me or even said anything about the fact that I had a
> glass or bottle of water instead of a drink._

That's nice for you, but based on the article it's clearly not universal.

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andonisus
Even if someone were to shame you, what's to stop you from ignoring them? So
what if other people have opinions about your behavior; just acknowledge them
and move on.

~~~
ablation
I'm not sure the shaming or even the people is the biggest issue with
alcoholism and the issues raised in the article.

It's more the almost overwhelming temptation - the need, even - to consume
alcohol.

It's not an issue I face, as I'm not an alcoholic, but I'm sympathetic to
those who do suffer from this disease and face a less than equal footing in
their professional lives as a result. I don't have a solution for the problem.

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semi-extrinsic
Just for reflection, let's consider instead the case when conferences organize
a nature hike or similar. Certainly the function of this is very similar to
organizing a cocktail reception - give people a chance to network and have
fun. But some people are not able to participate, e.g. due to a physical
disability, or they just don't like it. Should the conference stop organizing
nature hikes?

~~~
ddeokbokki
Context is key, if you work in a re-rehabilitation center, you are not going
to organise a nature hike.

Alcohol should not be a key factor for people to network and have fun,
especially in professional spaces.

~~~
merlincorey
> Alcohol should not be a key factor for people to network and have fun,
> especially in professional spaces.

It's not called "social lubricant" for nothing.

While we're far and away from the Madmen era all day drinkathons, it is
certainly acceptable in professional spaces and capacities for a little
alcohol to be shared.

It's certainly not required, but I wouldn't say it's unprofessional to have a
couple drinks at a professional event offering them.

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Mediterraneo10
Wow, I have never seen much alcohol available at conferences in my own field.
Often they are held on university premises instead of at hotels like in the
linked article, and so perhaps serving alcohol is forbidden there. All one
gets is free coffee and some cakes. Sometimes attendees will decide to have
dinner together after the day’s programme, but that just means a restaurant
where each person can decide whether to order a glass of wine or not, and
certainly not an open bar.

A while back I read the memoirs of one prominent scholar in my own field. He
claimed that conferences are so often used for impetuous sex between
academics, whether single or married. That’s another dodgy side I have never
noticed personally. It makes me wonder if he was exaggerating or I have simply
been blind to it.

~~~
jabberthemutt
Me neither, maybe it is a cultural US thing?

~~~
darkpuma
In my experience there is little to no alcohol at the conference itself but _"
the real networking happens at the bar"_ down the street.

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dannykwells
This is a problem beyond academia - tech has the same issue too. See this
Wired article from a while back: [https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-
soaked-culture-i...](https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-
culture-isnt-party-everybody/)

I'm going to hazard a guess that any field, at a certain level, has these
issues because so much of it all comes down to personal relationships and
making deals...which happen over drinks (historically). I'd be curious to
learn more about high-functioning organizations without an alcohol culture -
what do they do instead?

~~~
sokoloff
Article> those who don't participate [in drinking alcohol] are de facto
excluded

Though I do sometimes drink, I've never felt uncomfortable ordering a water, a
non-alcoholic beer (more commonly in Europe), a soda, or a coffee at a place
where "everyone else" is drinking.

That may not seem as comfortable in Japan or China, but in Europe, India, and
America, I haven't felt the least bit self-conscious or pressured beyond the
occasional "Oh, no beer for you?" "None for me, thanks." interaction.

~~~
orev
And you can order things that appear to contain alcohol if you feel self-
conscious about it. With the added benefit that after a few hours you still
have a clear head while everyone else is buzzing — a potential advantage for
you.

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subjectHarold
I don't understand what the big deal is...we should ban alcohol at these
events because some people don't like it? I don't drink, I haven't done so
since my first year of uni...it has never been an issue.

Might there be a correlation between people who don't drink and being
introverted/feeling excluded? This is definitely true in my case (at one time,
I had social anxiety...alcohol was a crutch for me) but you just have to get
over it and stop thinking that you deserve an exemption. If we make this
exception, guess what...the same people are going to complain about being
excluded for some other arbitrary reason.

~~~
aphextron
>I don't understand what the big deal is...we should ban alcohol at these
events because some people don't like it?

Yeah. It’s honestly really annoying. This is a big problem in tech, too, and
I’ve seen it lead to a lot of alienation between employees. I don’t think
alcohol belongs in any kind of professional setting at all. Should I be able
to spark up a joint, too? That’s just as legal as alcohol here.

~~~
duaoebg
I once worked at a place with lots of diversity, so no alcohol, beef, or bacon
was allowed at official functions. It ended up meaning a number of us started
our own private secret social gatherings which excluded those who had these
restrictions. I didn’t want to exclude people but I also like bacon burgers
with my beer.

~~~
subjectHarold
I am not sure what diversity has to do with it? As said, I don't drink but
does that mean no-one else should be allowed to drink? What is the idea behind
that?

Just imo: if you don't drink but have a problem with others doing so then
there is something wrong with you, not with the people who drink.

And speaking from experience, the people who do have a problem with others
drinking tend to be motivated by religions that conflict with accepted ideals
of liberal democracy (i.e. they look down on people who drink, believe they
are unclean/mad/whatever).

~~~
ellard
It's the difference between a tolerant atmosphere vs a welcoming one. A simple
example is that when i'm with mixed company, I speak in English even if
everyone i'm currently talking to can speak another language that i'm familiar
with. This allows others to listen in and maybe join in the conversation. This
is tossed out of the window when i'm speaking to the same folks but in
private. Being welcoming means taking the extra step to make others
comfortable, even if it means you end up inconveniencing yourself. Having no
alcohol is more "welcoming" as it takes into account folks who might be
recovering from alcoholism, while inconveniencing folks who casually drink.

~~~
subjectHarold
Ah, I forgot...the most welcoming environments are ones where things are
banned.

~~~
ellard
If you want to look at it that way, sure. Most communities ban certain
behaviors to cultivate a welcoming culture for their target audience. Even HN
has the guidelines which highly discourages certain posting behaviors to keep
comment threads civil.

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GlenTheMachine
I don't drink, and this has just never been an issue. I attend at least three
academic conferences a year, and many more professional meetings (typically
multi-day meetings with clients, sponsors, or partners).

I almost always show up to the receptions. Typically I will order a Coke or a
ginger ale. I throw my drinks tickets away. I walk around and talk to people.
It's never been awkward. No one has ever told me that they "felt judged"
because I wasn't drinking.

I've been doing this for nearly thirty years now. I did it as a grad student.
I certainly spent some time in bars, and I've carried my share of drunken grad
students home. Even they never indicated that I was judging them. Because, you
know, I wasn't.

If for some reason you don't want to be in bars, or around people drinking --
if you are struggling with sobriety -- then sure. I get that. But if you just
don't want to drink yourself? Never been a problem.

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airstrike
I'm in Wall Street, not academia, and I have the same issue. I'm not a
recovering alcoholic by any stretch of the imagination, and yet I do think
"this is a big deal" so maybe my personal anecdote might help others in this
thread sympathize with the author.

I used to drink a lot in my 20s (binge drinking every Friday and/or Saturday
was the norm for a couple of years) but now that I'm in my 30s with a ton of
responsibilities and need to be an actual adult, I just can't afford to be
hungover the next day. It also helps that I think more longer-term and really
don't want to give myself cancer.

Nearly every event or client dinner I attend has essentially an open bar, and
by God I wish they didn't.

First, because no good can come out of coworkers being drunk around each
other.

Second, because it's much harder to say no to alcohol (something I'm
consciously trying to avoid) when I'm offered top shelf booze for free.

Third, and most importantly, because my coworkers will likely think I'm weird,
anti-social or that I am judging them for drinking. Even if you think the odds
of that happening are 10% (and I think the odds are more like 90% especially
among older, male partners), it means a non-zero damage to my career, and I'm
not willing to risk that.

So I order a glass of wine, or quietly go to the bar and order a ginger ale,
or some sparkling water with lime and pretend I'm drinking alcohol....

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ergothus
When I moved to Seattle, I was amazed at how many social functions revolve
around beer. Work functions, meetups of all varieties... Heck, my last two
offices have in-office kegs.

I technically drink, I just don't particularly like most alcohol and
definitely don't like beer. I don't begrudge anyone their pleasures, and I
don't have a particular change I'd suggest - if I'm the outlier, it only makes
sense for them to target the common case.

But I was definitely surprised at the ubiquity.

~~~
virusduck
"Um, actually, I prefer a nice mead"

~~~
merlincorey
> "Um, actually, I prefer a nice mead"

Now that you mention it, I actually DO prefer a nice mead. Nice mead is
amazing.

Get yourself 15 pounds of honey and give it a shot if you have brewing
equipment or know anyone that does.

~~~
virusduck
I agree. I'm more of a beer homebrewer, but I have a mead-making friend that
makes some amazing meads. He manages to squirrel them away in his house so
that he forgets about bottles. Then, when they turn up years later, they're
just spectacular!

------
nimbius
Im an automotive mechanic by trade, so im a little surprised to hear theres
any drinking at all in academics? universities and all being rather dry
places.

Machinists, mechanics, heck any blue-collar tradesman...we _invented_ miller
time. when the last deadblow gets put away and the timecards punched for the
day, its almost impossible to avoid hitting a local dive for a few brews.

And if you're in-like-sin with the bar owner its even worse. I remember fixing
a few compressor motors for a brew-pub...just simple bearing replacement...and
if i so much as look in the window the guy hauls me in off the street to tie
one on.

~~~
profunctor
I found there to be a lot of drinking academics. Maybe in the US its
different?

~~~
Junk_Collector
Drinking at conferences is incredibly common in the US both for industry and
Academia. I've never seen anyone pressured to do so though and there is almost
always at least someone who isn't drinking there.

Drinking at government conferences is more rare, at least during the official
parts, because they have a policy against paying for alcohol in most (but not
all) situations. People often meet up for drinks afterwards in smaller groups
at the hotel bar or local watering hole.

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eesmith
I rarely drink, and when I drink the most it's definitely at conferences. The
most drinking seems to be at UK conferences, in part because so many people
head to a nearby pub in addition to the conference events.

I never thought about what it might mean for someone who is trying to remain
sober. That's gotta be tough for some!

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PakG1
I'm not sure what the solution would be for alcoholics who need to stay sober.
But for others who don't like alcohol, but still like drinking something with
a similar taste while chatting with people who do drink, nonalcoholic beer is
a thing and tastes about the same. My colleague introduced me to nonalcoholic
beer and I was amazed, I personally like it better than many other beers,
though I suppose it probably just depends on the brew.

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darrelld
It's just as bad in tech. I've been trying to limit my alcohol intake because
I just don't care for spending money on it anymore and I overall just don't
care for it anymore. The blowback has been surprising. Sly comments and side
glances galore.

~~~
ablation
I've not suffered from this first-hand, but I've definitely seen it happen to
other people - either bizarre, almost frat-like hazing, or the sly glances as
you mention takes place at some tech events/socials when someone says they
don't drink.

Not all the time. Or even the majority of the time. But it's happened more
than a handful of time.

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opportune
What is a problem: people pressuring you to drink, people drinking during
"official" functions (outside of some function specifically designated for
networking/socializing), people getting obnoxiously drunk

What is not a problem: other people drinking during a social event. Just get a
non-alcoholic drink to sip on, nobody will care

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jim_bailie
Let's not overthink this. If you don't want to drink alcohol get a soda and
mingle and have some fun. Or do what I do: Get a seltzer water with a twist of
lemon. Tastes refreshing and looks legit.

