

Ask HN: Should I Keep Going? - rickharrison

I'm 20 years old and I've learned a lot on HN while reading it for the better part of the past year.  In the past couple months I have been working on my second startup with a few other friends/developers.  The nature of our business requires either capital to contract out graphics work or have a graphic designer on board.  Since we have no capital we have been looking for a graphic designer.  Ideally it would be another student, but we have been unable to find anyone.  The other option is contracting out, but since we are college students thats not really an option.  I am just beginning to feel like its not possible for this startup to happen without raising some amount of capital.<p>What do you think I should do?
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pg
I was thinking this would be a post about how some startup was facing terrible
obstacles. If the only problem is that you can't find someone with design
ability, the answer is easy: try harder. They're all over, especially at
colleges.

Incidentally, as other posters have pointed out, you may be in danger of
confusing graphic design with UI design. They overlap but they're not
identical.

~~~
ivankirigin
Mistaking UI/UX design for graphic design is very highly correlated with not
paying enough attention to user experience. I'm amazed to still meet
developers who talk about getting a designer to skin the app after they do
more development. That's entirely backwards.

The great news is that you don't need to know photoshop to do UX design.
Thinking harder about the tasks for a user's perspective is most of the
process.

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bjplink
I originally wrote an incredibly snarky reply (it even had a link to a simple
Google search) but I'm reconsidering now...

In any collegiate environment you should be able to find plenty of art
students looking for opportunities to build a portfolio. Find them. Use them.
Pay them if they insist but I guarantee you can get away with offering very
little.

Whatever it is you do, don't offer them stake or equity. Just get what you
need done and move on.

Right now freelance graphic design is as cutthroat and savage as ever. People
will do anything for insanely cheap prices. If you can scrape together a
little money I think you'd be surprised to find out how far it can go if you
look in the right places. Try freelance message boards and even somewhat
seedier places like Digital Point
(<http://forums.digitalpoint.com/forumdisplay.php?f=104>).

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prospero
Your business is doomed to fail without a graphic designer? Unless you're
selling graphic design, I'm not sure how that's possible.

But if it really is that crucial, maybe you should revisit the business idea
you're pursuing. If your team doesn't have one of the core competencies you
need to succeed, there seems to be a disconnect somewhere in your planning.

~~~
rickharrison
Anyone trying to sell a SaaS is essentially selling graphic design. The
interface is what makes or breaks many applications.

~~~
prospero
So to your mind, interaction/graphic design is the major differentiating
factor, and you're looking at outsourcing that work? That seems roughly
analogous to a bunch of business students failing to find a CS major who will
do their coding, and wondering whether they should pay someone to develop
their idea for them.

I honestly think you're psyching yourself out with respect to the design. But
if you really think it's that important, and you really don't think you can do
it, why did you pursue this idea in the first place?

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monological
You can always do the graphics yourself. Grab a copy of Gimp if you don't have
photoshop and start designing. What exactly is holding you back from doing it
yourself?

~~~
mixmax
That would be like telling a designer that he could just grab a copy of python
and start coding. Sure it might work, but it'll be a steaming pile of shit.

Graphic design is hard if you want to do it right.

~~~
aswanson
Said steaming pile should be used as fertilizer for the next iteration.

~~~
jrockway
I wish I could mod you up twice; once because you're right, and once for your
exceptional use of the English language.

(I agree with the sentiment. It's better to do some sub-task badly than to not
do it at all and give up on your _whole project_!)

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asnyder
I would suggest the following:

Spend $25 or whatever it costs in your target region to post an ad on
craigslist. This ad should say that you're a small startup, etc. Telecommuting
should be ok.

Describe the kind of designer you're looking for as well as the work that
they'll be doing.

You can say that it's an unpaid internship, assuming you're incorporated in
some way, and have them work up to the maximum number of months allowed by
your state's laws. If you're not incorporated in any way and prefer a designer
for a longer period of time consider offering them equity in return for their
work.

If you post the above ad properly you should receive hundred of applications
many from talented designers, many of whom are recent graduates, or
traditional designers seeking to switch to the web. Most of all they're
looking for real world experience and this opportunity should provide them
with that.

The only drawback is that it will require a bit of effort on your part to let
them know what they're doing right, and what they're doing wrong. When they're
doing something wrong try to point them to examples or resources that can help
them learn. You'll be getting a designer, while they'll be getting invaluable
experience.

------
ryuio
Do this.

1\. Read the countless photoshop tutorials on the net and learn it. (if you
can't the startup aint going nowhere anyways).

2\. Read the book 'Dont make me think.'.

3\. Read it once again.

4\. Do the ui/graphic design yourself.

5\. Get a good designer to critique your site and spend about an hour on it.
(shouldnt cost much)

6\. Redo your site based on feedback. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

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jerf
There are many places where you can grab very liberally-licensed graphics. If
those don't do whatever unspecified thing you need them to do, they can
probably still serve as a base since it's easier to modify than to start from
scratch, especially if you find SVG/Inkscape/whatever source too. A bajillion
web designs can be found too with liberal licensing. The combinations of
liberally-licensed graphics and liberally-licensed web designs opens up yet
another easily-accessible vista of design combinations.

Someday when I get around to it, that's what I plan to do with my site. (Once
upon a time, I decided to do the design from scratch myself. What have I
learned since then? I'm absolutely, utterly terrible. Oh well, lesson
learned.)

Look around, search for things with Creative Commons commercial licenses on
them. You'll probably be able to come up with what you need.

------
SingAlong
If you are specifically looking for a college student, You should try at
college fests or such events where web design competitions are held. Just
participate in some of these (even if you are bad at design, just participate
to meet people and also try your luck. You might be good at design yourself)
and you'll see some guys recurring at many competitions. Find out if they are
winning atleast a few times in those competitions.

That's just one way of doing it.

Why not a HN job post about your requirement? :P

------
vaksel
getting a freelancer is cheaper than you might think. $200-300 bucks can
probably get you what you need.

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cmos
Don't let this be your roadblock! Start working on tutorials for gimp and
you'll be surprised how good you can make things look (my 'goto' in graphics
has always been to add a gradient and/or a shadow).

When you have something working you might be able to attract more interest
from graphic designers. In the meantime, try art schools or high school
students looking for a project.

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mattjaynes
Others have done it. Remember - be "relentlessly resourceful".

Find a designer - offer a code for design trade.

Find a few designs you like, then "borrow" their best elements for your own
design.

Look at freely available creative commons designs on sites like
<http://www.freecsstemplates.org/>

------
prateekdayal
Once you raise capital, it may not be possible to do the startup because you
can't find the right marketing guy at this budget. There will always be
obstacles. Just release something people can start using and then invest
resources in whatever brings most returns. Thats the way to go for
bootstrapped businesses. You are not alone.

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sgk284
I've had wonderful success with 99designs.com. Great work that is crowd-
sourced for amazing prices. If you use them my one recommendation is to
guarantee the action (you'll see what that means when you create it). You'll
get a lot more submissions that way.

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something
so, what is it- graphic design or interface design?

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Zev
You're in college. Go down to your art department and see if they have an art
class you can take. Or at the very least, will let you put up fliers somewhere
in the building.

~~~
raptrex
or go to the class and ask someone to do it for you, tell them it would give
them experience

~~~
Zev
Or you could not be completely cheap and pay someone for their time. The whole
"do it because its a good experience and you're a college student so what
other opportunities do you have?" thing doesn't really cut it.

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ilaksh
This is YN. He wants to know how to raise capital. Does no one understand
that?

Rick Harrison: what is your business model?

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pclark
Hi, I'm a UI designer -- and my girlfriend is a graphic designer.

Drop me an email [in my profile] and we'll sort this out.

