
After 8 years and $128M raised, the clock is ticking for men's retailer Bonobos - prostoalex
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-bonobos-is-maturing-into-a-major-brand-2015-8
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sageabilly
Their menswear collection looks to be trying to compete with Banana Republic
and JCrew, at least price wise. I took a look at their "experimental" women's
line, AYR, and it's just... I mean maybe I'm not their target demographic but
for $125 I can purchase some incredible pants at Nordstrom and actually try
them on in the store, not to mention have a great customer service experience
and get them tailored in-house. Their women's line suffers from overly high
prices for what the pieces are (simple stuff that I can buy at Ann Taylor or
Loft or Nordstrom or JCrew or Banana Republic depending on my mood and what
color I want it in), and the extremely narrow offering of sizes is straight up
ridiculous at this point.

I'm not going to drop $150 on any clothing I buy online sight-unseen unless
it's a brand I already know and trust. And yes, I can return it if I don't
like it or if it doesn't fit but if I'm spending $500-1000 on clothes at a
time (and at Bonobos that's two pants and two shirts plus a blazer) I don't
want to go through that hassle, I want everything to be perfect the first
time. I imagine that for most men their desired shopping experience is even
more geared towards "I want to purchase the most adequate pair of pants the
very first time and minimize the time I need to spend shopping."

I do have a few friends who live to shop but the vast majority of my friends,
male and female alike, just want to buy things they like and have them work
the first time around with a minimum of fuss.

Plus, if I'm going to spend that much money on clothes that I have never
purchased before (and I consider $200-400 per outfit to be a significant
outlay of money for clothes, which perhaps makes me an outlier) I want an
experience to go with it. I want to see what I'm getting before I pay for it,
and I would like the option to consult with a salesperson about the clothing.
Their men's Americano and French Cuff dress shirts are in the same price range
as the least expensive shirts from an awesome independent men's store close to
my house (in the DC suburbs) and every time I've been in there to shop with my
husband he's treated like a _king_ by the staff, as is every other customer
that comes through there regardless of how much they spend. Again, when I shop
there I know damn well that whatever I buy is going to be the absolute top
quality that it can be because the owner cares about his customers and doesn't
sell anything he wouldn't buy or wear himself.

~~~
andzt
Bonobos is carried in some Nordstrom stores, not sure about AYR. I'm actually
thinking of giving their pants a second shot once the Nordstrom by me re-opens
and I can try enough pairs on to find ones that fit well - if the store
carries them.

Link: [http://shop.nordstrom.com/c/bonobos-
clothing](http://shop.nordstrom.com/c/bonobos-clothing)

~~~
SilasX
Yeah, I recognized the name Bonobos from my favorite shirt, and I had got it
at Nordstrom's, gets a lot of compliments. It contrasts with another sweater I
got there, which developed holes after four months...

Had no idea Bonobos was trying to do this online-only thing, my first
experience with them is in the physical world.

(No, not a shill and don't normally recognize and remember clothing brands on
the spot.)

------
antr
Bonobos really struggled to raise their D round... and I really mean struggle.
They managed to find "dumb" money from a Mexican fund, as all well known funds
had passed on the investment. I'm not saying Bonobos is a bad company, but
when you run out of growth, and are desperate for cash, accessing capital is
really hard...

Having raised $128m, and finding yourself in an extremely competitive sector
with players with superb operations (Inditex, H&M), and well known players
gone bust (American Apparel), I believe Bonobos is having real trouble in
justifying a startup/tech-like valuation. If they IPO, or anyone buys them,
Bonobos’ investors should expected a genuine market valuation based on
fundamentals.

~~~
meatysnapper
Wait till Massimo Dutti expands into the US. Everybody who is one price level
above Zara will be destroyed.

~~~
goodJobWalrus
Why? Massimo Dutti is in Canada, but it doesn't look like anyone of American
brands in that space was "destroyed".

------
tsunamifury
Meanwhile the ultra-highend designer, Brunello Cuccinelli, achieved a very
successful multi-billion IPO valuation by focusing on hand made clothing,
ethical sourcing, hands on sales, and superior quality.

Sometimes markets aren't just about driving down price and cheap supply
chains. Providing a product an order of magnitude better than currently
provided by competition, and charging a lot for it, can also lead to success.

I also sense that a great deal of profit will come from matching consumers
values of quality and ethics over price for the coming generation of
consumers.

------
subpixel
I remember when they launched, their 'special sauce' was supposed to be how
they made pants fit men correctly, but the photos made their pants look
awkward and ill-fitting.

To wit:
[http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-06-01/features/08052...](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-06-01/features/0805290003_1_pants-
bonobos-fit)

Odd how that first impression has stuck with me and prevented me from paying
any further attention to the brand.

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
The pants are cut for squishy office drones. It's for guys carrying an extra
12 pounds who still want a modern tapered cut. The quality is pretty much
standard disposable American clothing, that is to say a pair of pants will be
visibly disintegrating after about ten washes.

~~~
meatysnapper
Ah yes, the "American slim fit". Most shirts I try on are too tight on the
chest (40" chest, medium should fit normally in most brands), but the waist
is... massive (31" waist). Probably for a man expecting to have a child.

------
grandalf
The biggest problem with buying clothes, in my opinion, is that most are low
quality.

Pants and shirts should be guaranteed to withstand hundreds of machine washes
without shrinking or falling apart.

Textiles are very very cheap. Men's pants styles have changed very little in
100 years. It's unconscionable that they should cost more than $25-$30 a pair.

When you walk into a Bonobos brick and mortar location, there are lots of
accessories (ties, belts, etc.) which are higher margin items that are more
trend-driven, which is good for the business's bottom line, but I don't know
any guys who really want to go "all in" and look like a Bonobos spokesperson.

A man needs well-made, well-fitting staple garments that he can reliably
reorder when he needs more (which should be rarely). The fashion and
flourishes are fun, as are luxury materials like cashmere and silk, but they
are not the core of a man's wardrobe.

Not everyone aspires to have a super expensive watch and fancy tie. Most of us
just want well-made pants that won't be ready for donation to the goodwill the
following year. I thought this was what Bonobos was building, but it seems to
have branched out into what feels like a copy of Ralph Lauren, with the same
kind of aspirational "gentleman" aesthetic.

~~~
meatysnapper
"It's unconscionable that they should cost more than $25-$30 a pair."

Exactly. I want all my clothes to be made by small children in sweatshops. I
don't want my money to go to businesses that rely on paying normal wages.

~~~
bsder
Actually, I want my clothes to be made by robots so that I can get a custom
fit that exactly fits _ME_.

I'm a 6'3" American, not a 5'8" Italian. Therefore, I fit into almost
_nothing_ at places like Nieman Marcus, H&M, Zegna, etc.

My choices are solid white or solid blue in broadcloth. My other half just
quit trying since every time she finds a gorgeous shirt it simply won't fit.

I would learn tailoring _except I can 't get the really nice fabrics_. I have
tried taking pictures of nice shirts and then trying to find the fabric.
Everybody looks at me like I'm completely insane (effectively--if I'm not
buying 10000 yards, I'm not worth talking to).

So, if Bonobos _really_ wanted to up-end the business, instead of making
clothing that makes you look like every other Wall Street douchebag, they
should figure out how to construct one-off clothing in _any appropriate
available fabric in the world_ cost effectively.

Women would knife each other to guarantee that their dress is genuinely
unique.

~~~
meatysnapper
You need to go to Holland where you are average-sized.

~~~
mtanski
Or Denmark. Lots of Danish men's brands, including lots of tall sizes, many of
them are actually made in Denmark. The current USD/EUR exchange rate makes the
prices decent.

And if you can't find high quality mens wear there you not trying enough.

Example: [http://www.norseprojects.com/store/mens-
aw15/knitwear/aw15-v...](http://www.norseprojects.com/store/mens-
aw15/knitwear/aw15-verner-pure-new-wool) . These guys even give you 20% off if
you're shipping out the EU. And pro-tip current pick to pay in DKK instead of
USD, your credit card will give you a better exchange rate (even with fees).

~~~
retbull
Thanks for the advice I never thought to check out of country.

------
ucaetano
_“Call me crazy, but I’m hoping we can build something standalone,”

“The e-commerce business is really challenging, and we feel like with this
online-offline equation we’ve really unlocked something that can scale,”

“I have a long vision for the company, one that could take decades to unfold,
and I didn’t think that my running the company day-to-day was necessarily
optimal to getting there.”_

So after 8 years unable to scale, they now want to scale by building brick-
and-mortar stores where you can try a product that you can only buy online?

Am I missing something here?

~~~
jraines
I walked into their store in Manhattan (unaware it was this model) because I'd
heard of them, and knew from their ads that their pitch is about how great the
fit is.

The salesperson was busy with a customer who was confused (and a bit rudely
angry) that he couldn't just buy something now. He walked out, and so did I.

To continue this sample of one anecdata: my shopping usually goes: "hey,
there's a store that sells pants -> I could use some pants -> let's get this
over with"

~~~
AndrewKemendo
_" hey, there's a store that sells pants -> I could use some pants -> let's
get this over with"_

Interesting because mine is "I could use some pants -> where is a store that
sells pants? -> let's get this over with"

I wonder how different your or my experiences are compared to the population.

~~~
jraines
Mine would be the same as yours except that I live in Manhattan and often walk
around Midtown / Union Square where there are tons of clothing retailers.

------
ruddct
It's a brand I've never understood at a valuation that seems completely
insane. Generic designs that are more expensive (relative to the fast fashion
bunch) and more difficult to buy (relative to comparable B&M chains).

Serious question: Does anyone know/is anyone a Bonobos enthusiast? I'm
legitimately curious about their demographic, and what appeals to them about
Bonobos that doesn't about JCrew/Club Monaco/Zara/Uniqlo/etc.

~~~
wil421
H&M/Zara have horrible quality compared to Bonobos/Banana Republic. I've
bought clothes that barely lasted after one wash similar to the woman's
clothes from Forever 21.

Bonobos has better quality, slightly slimmer and more modern fit than Banana
Republic. The quality has also been better as far as chinos goes. Also I like
Bonobos' attention to detail, the pockets have nice patterns and better
buttons. They also fit better in the right places and seem more movable.

As far as their shirts are concerned I can find more flashy or newer type
designs/patterns that are still office friendly. Plus most of the button down
shirts dont have that huge blousey look at the bottom when I tuck them in. For
my body its hard to find shirts with broad shoulders but a small waist.

------
Liuser
Wanted to be the “Zappos of pants”.

I’m a frequent shopper of Bonobos and Zappos. One glaring flaw is their
shipping speeds. I felt in its earlier days, Zappos really paved the way for
fast and convenient shipping. Order a pair of shoes, and you get it on your
front porch in 1-2 days. I rarely shop at clothing stores now. I like to have
clothes and shoes delivered so that I may try them at my leisure in the
comfort of my own home and debate whether to keep the purchase for a couple of
days.

Bonobos shipment takes approximately 5 business days if you live in Northern
CA (which is where I am at.) Returns also take awhile. Approximately 2 weeks
from when I initially ship the item, to when I receive the return on my CC.
You can’t be the “Zappos of pants”, if your shipping speeds take 5 business
days.

Their customer experience is one of the best I’ve ever experienced. They are
really polite and really responsive.

Additionally, if you visit one of their brick and mortar shops, and you order
through their reps at the store, you will get a sizable discount. Grab that
person’s card, and try to make future orders through that person for discounts
in the future.

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shturturp
Ha! So many haters and misconceptions, and general cynicism. Something about
menswear makes guys go a little nuts these days. And the general assumption
that every factory in Asia is a sweatshop is frankly racist / xenophobic. What
I love about Bonobos is that as a startup fan and participant, they've been
way more candid on most things around their business than they needed to be.
Andy's articles on Medium have been fascinating. But, as usual today, most
people make snap judgments about one particular thing based on their singular
experience without thinking about the broader implications and opportunities.
I'd guess those commenters aren't very good at VC investing?

------
rtgr
They're struggling because they typically hire young, professionally immature
employees that treat any new process as an encroachment on their fiefdom. When
I worked there getting anything done across departments required buy in from
the executive team that had to force people to do their jobs.

The zappos comparison doesn't really work anymore. They dropped free 2-3 day
shipping because they were losing so much money and phone support has gone
downhill.

------
encoderer
I'm a tall guy with an athletic build. The bonobos "tailored slim" cut shirts
are the best off-the-rack fit I've found. I recently tried Trumaker for made-
to-measure shirts and was totally underwhelmed. The tailored slim shirts from
bonobos were a much slimmer cut than what I got from Trumaker.

I don't love their chinos but I think I just dislike chinos. They are boxy.

~~~
shturturp
Ah, I've had good luck with Trumaker actually. First shirt wasn't slim enough
but was able to get it adjusted, and shirts since have been great. Did take
some time to get it right though.

~~~
encoderer
My adjustment came back still too baggy. I was pretty disappointed. Really
wanted it to be awesome.

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sotojuan
Between Uniqlo, J. Crew (which has sales all the time), H&M, and other
cheaper-but-pretty-much-the-same stores, I don't know what Bonobos offers.

The regular person will buy from the stores above. The person that spends a
ton of money on clothes will buy actual designer clothes made.

~~~
mrfogg
I like their shirts a lot (much better fit than J-Crew and Banana, much higher
quality than H&M), but it's still difficult to justify a $100 shirt from
Bonobos when I can get a _very similar_ shirt from Uniqlo for $30.

The pants I can understand, though as someone who primarily wears slim/skinny
jeans, I'm not their pants demographic. I'd imagine that there is a large
market for properly-fitted pants though, as most stuff from Banana Republic
and Jcrew are billowing and terrible.

But overall, I find it hard for frequently-worn shirts and pants to last more
than a couple years anyway, between wear+tear and style changes. Paying 200%
more for a product that is only _slightly_ nicer (but not 'you will own this
for years to come' quality, such as a nice boot) and difficult to buy/return
is a hard sell. If someone truly has the money to blow, it's better off going
to smaller designer ultra-high-quality (or fashionable) brands.

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iamleppert
128M for the same service my local tailor provides me. I'd give money to my
local tailor in a heartbeat before this company.

