
Apple goes to war with the BBC - dnetesn
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/11303052/Apple-working-conditions-Tim-Cook.html
======
rtpg
>Williams countered that Apple has tracked the weekly hours of over one
million workers within its supply chain, and that its suppliers have achieved
an average of 93 per cent compliance with the 60-hour workweek limit this
year.

60 hour workweeks... plus "93% compliance" is not exactly reassuring.

~~~
dalke
It would be nice to compare those numbers to that of other companies or
organizations.

But even if you stay strictly with US companies, is it possible to find the
compliance rate for Microsoft, Google, Twitter, Red Hat, etc., much less the
various game studios known for overworking their employees?

~~~
debacle
A 60 hour work week for wage laborers should not be baseline in any country in
2014. Apple is doing what they can to exploit these workers in a PC fashion.

~~~
rndn
* as any other company that outsources manufacturing.

~~~
debacle
So should we not also look down on those companies? Why do we give companies a
pass to exploit workers because other companies do as well?

~~~
Retric
I don't know if a 60 hour work week counts as exploitation. If you options are
400$/month and 40 hour weeks or 600$ a month and 60 hour weeks a lot of people
are going to chose the second option. IMO, when it comes to exploitation pay,
working conditions, and irregular work schedules can be far more exploitive
than simple hours worked.

Also, dorm style housing next to a factory dramatically cut down on commute
times which changes the work life balance equation. It's much like a 50 hour
work week with a 1 hour commute which is fairly common in the US.

PS: IMO the US trucking industry is probably more expletive than most Chinese
factory's. The hours are often comparable but the risk of death is much
higher. And the industry often increases peoples risk of death for just a
little more profit.

~~~
lucaspiller
Bear in mind that the salary these workers get is probably less than half
that. Last year, according to the Daily Mail (yeah...), they were being paid
£180 ($300) per month [0]. The salary these workers get is a small percentage
of the retail price of these devices, it's not like Apple can't afford to pay
them a decent salary and provide ethical working conditions.

[0] [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103798/Revealed-
Ins...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103798/Revealed-Inside-
Apples-Chinese-sweatshop-factory-workers-paid-just-1-12-hour.html)

~~~
mcphage
> it's not like Apple can't afford to pay them a decent salary

Well, Apple doesn't pay them any salary at all—they're not Apple employees.

~~~
ghostDancer
Yes but they are deeply offended , if they're not their employees is not their
problem, why feel offended? .

~~~
mcphage
I get offended by plenty of things outside my direct sphere of influence, that
aren't my problem. Most of them, I can't do anything about. But it's still
upsetting.

------
swombat
The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and
unfair framing, like this Panorama report.

That makes it more difficult to tell when a criticism of Apple is genuine,
because every idiot journalist looking for a controversial story can write a
story about something Apple is doing not well enough and get away with it,
since everyone seems to love to hate on Apple.

So if Apple really is up to no good in some area of their business, we won't
have a clue, because it's drowned out in tripe like this.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Reminds me a little of how people somehow don't believe McDonalds when they
reveal their food sources. Because people love to hate on them, McDs and Apple
have higher standards than their competitors.

~~~
funkybro
See also: Facebook and security/privacy

~~~
TeMPOraL
Or Google and privacy/surveillance. A lot of criticism is just fashion or
signalling.

~~~
kybernetikos
Confused about these two comments. Are you both literally arguing that Google
has higher standards for privacy/surveillance than its competitors and that
facebook is better than its competitors for security/privacy?

~~~
TeMPOraL
Per TazeTSchnitzel's remark on Apple & McDonald's, also Facebook and Google
seem to be held by public to a higher standard than other companies.

~~~
kybernetikos
Ah, I understood that comment as saying that MacDonalds actually _do_ have
higher food sourcing standards because of the public scrutiny.

There also seems to be an implied complaint here that the public are being
hypocritical, however it makes perfect sense that the larger the example, the
more people would be interested in holding them to a high standard. This
doesn't seem like a bad thing at all.

------
dzhiurgis
Sleeping publicly in asian cultures is perfectly normal.

I remember seeing these asian students just passed out on university benches
once I started studies abroad.

The journalist says 'it seems that they have no choice'. So he just displayed
his cultural unconsciousness and publicly alleged Apple of wrongdoing.

One could easily speculate that people working in western societies are pumped
up with caffeine, sugar or other drugs, freely available by their profit-
hungry bosses.

~~~
Zikes
If I recall, in Japan if you're not seen sleeping at your desk then you've not
been working hard enough.

~~~
andybak
And it's perfectly acceptable to beat your domestic help in the UAE.

Let's not confuse 'accepted' with 'acceptable'.

~~~
Zikes
Well, that's about as ridiculous a leap as I can imagine.

Some Asian nations have culturally integrated the fact that naps boost
productivity[1][2][3] but we should impose our own cultural standards on them
because they might actually be a bunch of uncivilized mongrels and it's our
responsibility to teach them the error of their ways.

[1] [http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/07/24/why-
you-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/07/24/why-you-should-
take-a-10-minute-nap-every-day/)

[2] [http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/features/america-its-
ti...](http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/features/america-its-time-for-
your-nap)

[3]
[http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Let...](http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Letter/2009/November/napping-
may-not-be-such-a-no-no)

------
kmfrk
I recommend everyone to subscribe to China Labour Watch
[[http://chinalaborwatch.org](http://chinalaborwatch.org)].

Reports of workplace abuse are so recurring that you end up dying a little
inside from reading about one huge company after the other pulling this shit -
but at least it'll stop you from reverting to an automatic defensive response
to bad news about companies like Apple.

++

fwiw, I still agree that it's generally counterproductive to do reporting
focused on Apple, because although they're the most obvious company to
scrutinize, it makes it seems as if the issue is specific to Apple and not the
systemic rule across corporations.

++

PS: Consider donating to CLW while you're at it; it's Christmas, after all.

------
beltex
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaTl2kW6YU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaTl2kW6YU)

The full documentary by BBC.

~~~
arthurfm
For those of us in the UK (or with access to a UK-based proxy)...

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04vs348/panorama-
apple...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04vs348/panorama-apples-
broken-promises)

------
xedarius
I wouldn't quite call that war, more a disgruntled sigh.

~~~
wernercd
That wouldn't generate as many clicks...

~~~
everyone
Agreed. One of the more egregious examples of hyperbole in an articles title,
for the purpose of being clickbait, that I have seen. A better title would be;
"Apple refutes BBC documentary"

------
coob
Genuine question: Which large companies do supply chain auditing to the same
or greater extent than Apple do? Do they make the audit publicly available as
Apple do? I'd like to compare.

~~~
Zikes
Walmart does a fair amount of supply chain auditing.

[http://corporate.walmart.com/global-
responsibility/ethical-s...](http://corporate.walmart.com/global-
responsibility/ethical-sourcing/audit-process)

------
frabcus
This is a good place to mention Fairphone, a dutch foundation who make phones
and document their supply chain in public, improving various things about it

------
kalleboo
I would love to see if they could find a multinational company WITHOUT issues
like this in their supply chain - I imagine none exist.

(I still support "exposé" programs like this since people need to be reminded
what the actual cost of their toys are - but they should cast a broader net)

~~~
hawleyal
I don't know why "everyone is doing it" somehow mitigates the problem.

~~~
k-mcgrady
Because they blame one company. From what I've read Apple has done more than
anyone else to improve the situation and yet they're the ones that constantly
receive blame. Do a report on the supply chain as a whole and how the entire
tech industry has workers that are being exploited. They select one company (a
popular one) because it'll generate more clicks regardless of the fact that it
makes the reporting slightly biased.

~~~
hawleyal
They don't blame one company. They did an expose of one company. And one of
the companies with arguably the most popular product.

~~~
k-mcgrady
The company who's also arguably doing the most to improve the situation. If
the journalist actually cared about what was going on they would expose all
offenders and highlight the worst, not expose the one who's already been
exposed by several other journalists and is working to improve the situation.

~~~
hawleyal
My heart bleeds for the plight of Apple.

