
Chanakya - humility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanakya
======
dr_dshiv
Many thousands of undiscovered manuscripts, invaluable to India's literary
legacy, are rotting away as we speak. There is very little financial support
for archeology or manuscriptology in India. So much has been lost already.
And, of the estimated known 40 million manuscripts, no one is being trained to
read and translate them! Opportunity for philanthropy?

[https://www.dailyo.in/arts/ancient-manuscripts-india-
sanskri...](https://www.dailyo.in/arts/ancient-manuscripts-india-sanskrit-
namami/story/1/17406.html)

[https://www.newindianexpress.com/thinkedu2020/2020/jan/08/hi...](https://www.newindianexpress.com/thinkedu2020/2020/jan/08/hidden-
treasure-95-of-indias-ancient-manuscripts-yet-to-be-translated-says-bibek-
debroy-2086890.html)

[https://namami.gov.in/manuscriptology-
polygraphy](https://namami.gov.in/manuscriptology-polygraphy)

~~~
Mediterraneo10
In recent decades, Hindutva forces have gained more and more political
influence in India, and their rhetoric continually emphasizes that India is
home to ancient Vedic wisdom unparalled in the world, and that Sanskrit is
some kind of super-language handed down by the gods millions of years ago
(instead of a codified form for sacramental use of an ordinary language spoken
just a few thousand years ago). And yet, while many Indians are swelling with
patriotic pride at their country’s inheritance, actual classical philology is
dying and largely done by interested foreigners. Not only are the manuscripts
not being adequately studied within India, but deep practical knowledge of
Sanskrit is dying out, too. Yes, of course you’ll hear urban myths about whole
villages speaking Sanskrit or whatever, but this is always huge exaggeration
that gets perpetuated for decades.

~~~
dr_dshiv
> actual classical philology is dying. Not only are the manuscripts not being
> adequately studied, but deep practical knowledge of Sanskrit is dying out,
> too.

I've also heard that there is anger when non-Indian scholars study Sanskrit.
Cambridge shut down their Sanskrit program, after 150 years.
[https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/12/scholars-
who-...](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/12/scholars-who-study-
hinduism-and-india-face-hostile-climate)

~~~
deepglacier
The reason for this anger is the fear of losing control of the narrative. By
keeping the Sanskrit scriptures arcane, they can build their own narratives
around it. But when scholars start studying those text, the cat will be out of
the bag.

They may feel that it is harmful to the Hindutva interests when scholars write
about the procedure for cow sacrifice mentioned in Yajur Veda or the racism
and misogyny perpetuated by Manu Smriti or the Soma drinking revelry in
Rigveda.

These efforts to stop others knowing these scriptures are happening since pre-
historic times and even codified in Hindu Law.

Dharmasutra says "If he (Sudra) listens in on a vedic recitation, his ears
shall be filled with molten tin or lac; if he repeats it, his tongue should be
cut off; if he commits it to memory, his body should be split."[1]

Dharmasutra, written circa 600 BCE, is a book on Hindu Law and Sudra is the
lowest class in the Varna system.

The ban on Wendy Doniger's book in India is a case in point.

References:

[1]
[https://books.google.com/books?id=gnVxqvPg9a0C&q=lead#v=snip...](https://books.google.com/books?id=gnVxqvPg9a0C&q=lead#v=snippet&q=molten%20tin%20or%20lac&f=false)

[2] [https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu/manu05.htm](https://www.sacred-
texts.com/hin/manu/manu05.htm)

[3] [https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/features/a-few-
rea...](https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/features/a-few-reasons-why-
manu-smriti-was-burned-down-399546)

[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger)

~~~
jbgud
Scholars studying Hindu texts is not offensive to Hindus. What is though, is
the racist perversion that some of them like Doniger make.

Doniger's book is not "banned". It was withdrawn by the publisher - because it
was offensive. Details in same wiki link.

Another such "scholar" wrote extremely offensive passage on Lord Ganesha and
got away with it.[1] Hindus have tolerated abuse for so long and they continue
to do so. Try letting cats out of the bag on Abrahmic religions.

[1] [https://hwpi.harvard.edu/pluralismarchive/news/hindu-
student...](https://hwpi.harvard.edu/pluralismarchive/news/hindu-students-
call-emory-professors-book-hate-crime)

------
actuator
Other than his works, he was the prime minister in Maurya empire, credited
with its rise. Maurya empire is considered to be one of the greatest Indian
empires along with Guptas(known for progress in science, medicine) and
Cholas(mercantile empire crossing oceans). It spread west upto present day
Afghanistan at its peak. Maurya king Ashoka is quite famous because of this:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka#Kalinga_war_and_convers...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka#Kalinga_war_and_conversion_to_Buddhism)

~~~
humility
Interestingly enough he became politically active after India's defeat at the
hands of Alexander the Great, and aided in creating an empire that unified the
whole of India, which was unprecedented until then.

~~~
actuator
Is there any recommended reading you have on this? In general, all the foreign
conquests that succeeded in India even later were when it was fragmented into
smaller kingdoms.

~~~
muststopmyths
Probably doesn't exist, since "India's defeat at the hands of Alexander" never
happened.

He barely made it to the border of the largest empire in contemporary India,
by geography. Even the parts of current Pakistan he conquered were nowhere
near major powers in the subcontinent.

That was as far as he got before his army rebelled and forced him to abandon
further conquest.

~~~
logicx24
This is broadly true, though he did have an impressive victory at the Hydaspes
and establish a series of vassal states in the Indian northwest (modern
Pakistan). The historical consensus is that it's unlikely he would have
succeeded in a Persian-esque conquest of the subcontinent.

------
01100011
It's nice to see some Asian history for a change. In the west, it seems as we
only have an interest in the historical narratives of Egypt, Greece, Rome, and
Europe. Dense civilizations existed in South and East Asian stretching back
thousands of years and our history classes and popular culture barely touch on
them.

I'd love to see more pop culture(games, movies, etc) explore the history of
what is now India, Thailand, Vietnam, etc.

~~~
actuator
I am assuming for games at least, the market in say India is not big enough
that it can cover the cost of making something high budget. Once the market
becomes bigger in terms of ability to spend, there might be more content. For
example Japan, China have big enough markets and both have dedicated games in
Total War series on parts of their history.

~~~
chancemehmu
I would say things are starting to look good even for India. Check out Raji
the game ,which imo is high quality and looks interesting. The gaming movement
in India got a big boost after PUBG, COD, etc. but ofcourse it’s still in a
very nascent stage.

~~~
searchableguy
[https://themakoreactor.com/features/raji-an-ancient-epic-
rel...](https://themakoreactor.com/features/raji-an-ancient-epic-release-date-
made-in-india-nintendo-switch-game-development-pc-ps4-xbox-one-nodding-heads-
interview/13628)

Interesting story!

------
dr_dshiv
Socrates reportedly met an Indian philosopher in Athens, according to
Aristoxenus, student of Aristotle [1].

Some of Ashoka's pillars had Greek inscriptions [2]

Greece and India used to share borders. A Greek king became Buddhist. [2]

[1]
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249942188_Some_Rema...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249942188_Some_Remarks_about_a_Meeting_between_Socrates_and_an_Indian_Aristoxenus'_fragment_53)

[2] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-
Buddhism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism)

~~~
pratik661
There were lots of Greek speakers in India at the time. There was an Indo-
Bactrian Greek kingdom in modern day Afghanistan and Pakistan long after the
Greeks were conquered by the Romans (around 300 CE). A lot of early Buddhists
were Greek. Lots of Indian statues have Greek style columns. I'm still mind
blown by how connected the ancient world was.

------
rramadass
For people interested in actually _studying_ Chanakya's writings (their sweep
is magisterial), the following are recommended;

* The First Great Political Realist: Kautilya and His Arthashastra by Roger Boesche - A very good (and short) overview of the Arthashastra.

* King, Governance, and Law in Ancient India: Kautilya's Arthashastra translated by Patrick Olivelle - A good modern translation of the complete Arthashastra.

* Kautilya's Arthashastra: An Intellectual Portrait: The Classical Roots of Modern Politics in India by Subrata K. Mitra and Michael Liebic - A scholarly and challenging work on the relevance and applications of the Arthashastra.

~~~
082349872349872
Interesting to see sock puppets already in use.

------
voldacar
The arthashastra is brilliant. Much older and far more Machiavellian than
Machiavelli.

Highly recommended if you are interested in ancient thought

~~~
actuator
Is the english translation good enough or reading it in Sanskrit is
recommended? If yes, any translation that you recommend?

~~~
rramadass
You might find my comment in this thread listing some book recommendations,
useful.

------
bluishgreen
TIL: That Chanakya's work was lost to history and was rediscovered in 1909.
And the manuscripts that contained the treatise was donated to the scholars by
a pandit from my home town (Tanjore or the modern Thanjavur). That drastically
alters my sense of my own history. We knew of the big temple[1] circa 1000AD
and all the scholarly thinking that went on around that time and the town has
several UNESCO World Heritage sites from that period. But to house a script
from circa 200 BCE, that is new to me.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihadisvara_Temple,_Thanjavur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihadisvara_Temple,_Thanjavur)

~~~
dr_dshiv
That's amazing. Just imagine what other manuscripts might be found in temples
around India...

------
known
Casteism is an Organized mafia operating in South Asia since 700 BC
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda)
which is evident from the fact that 50% Ministers in Modi Cabinet are Brahmin
while they are just 3% in India;

[https://www.quora.com/Which-caste-is-looting-
India/answers/2...](https://www.quora.com/Which-caste-is-looting-
India/answers/220938900)

------
Delfino
Neat, thanks for sharing. I'm currently in Chanakyapuri near Chandragupta
Marg. I now understand the significance of those names a bit more.

~~~
rudiv
Yes, we named the diplomatic enclave after Chanakya, following his advice of
giving foreign missions palatial estates in exchange for tiny apartments.

