
One Woman's Dangerous War Against the Most Hated Man on the Internet - co_pl_te
http://jezebel.com/one-womans-dangerous-war-against-the-most-hated-man-on-1469240835
======
marvin
A somewhat related note is that America's culture of sex-negativity, shame and
general hysteria around nudity is a required prerequisite for this type of
bullying and abuse. Look at the following paragraph:

> Jill became hysterical, repeating, "Oh, my God. No. Oh, my God. No."

This is, obviously, the reaction of someone who fears repercussions from
others. And this is for completely harmless acts (taking nude photos), which
almost everyone does these days. And with good reason. Society in the US
clamps down hard on people (women to a greater degree, but also men) who have
the audacity to express their sexuality. That this expression was in no way
intended for the public, makes no difference. Once it becomes publicly known,
you are a slut (or a pervert) and harshly punished. Perverts are no good, and
sluts are worse. This cultural norm is the only reason this type of shaming
has any effect.

But really, we are all sluts and perverts. A good first step would be to go
after the psychopaths who run campaigns like these. A good second step would
be to abolish the cultural norms that allow sexuality and nudity to be used as
a weapon.

If you look at "alternative" sexual societies like swingers' clubs or BDSM
communities, you will often hear the word "pervert" or "slut" used in a
positive sense, the way homosexuals are reclaiming literally every derogatory
term used about their sexual identity. Most people in these communities are
very aware and careful regarding the reactions of outside society if it became
known what they do in their bedrooms, but the capability to make them feel bad
about themselves for acts of nudity or sex is often completely absent.

~~~
nsxwolf
So would you say that Hunter Moore is really a hero? Helping us all get over
our hang ups wether we like it or not?

~~~
simonsarris
I think that's a stretch - it would be like saying war is really a good thing
because of the (possibly good) ending side effects.

If I may recall the relevant operetta on HN:

CANDIDE:

 _Objection! What about war?_

PANGLOSS:

 _War!_

 _Though war may seem a bloody curse_

 _It is a blessing in reverse_

 _When canon roar -- Both rich and poor_

 _By danger are united!_

 _(Till every wrong is righted!)_

 _Philosophers make evident_

 _The point that I have cited_

 _' Tis war makes equal -- as it were --_

 _The noble and the commoner_

 _Thus war improves relations!_

(Pangloss tries to justify the apparent imperfections of the world by claiming
that it is optimal among all possible worlds. It must be the best possible
world, because it was created by an all powerful/knowing God, who would not
choose to create an imperfect world if a better world could be known to him.)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide)

~~~
rustynails77
"it would be like saying war is really a good thing because of the (possibly
good) ending side effects."

>it would be like saying war is really a good thing because of the (possibly
good) ending side effects.

War can be a good thing for that very reason. It can be a form of politics
that is used to avoid further and larger loss of life. However, this only
works if the war is not drawn out.

Art of War (and relevant analyses) are good references on this topic. Art of
War specifically talks about avoiding long and drawn out campaigns, and let's
just say that a few recent examples come to mind.

------
jrockway
The story kind of jumps around and I read it in parts, but I'm confused about
the outcome. He basically went into hiding and suffered no consequences?

What worries me more deeply is how society provides people like Moore with the
ammunition they need to terrorize women. One victim complained that she would
lose her children over the nude pictures. Even if they _were_ actually of her,
why does someone have to fear the government taking away their kids simply
because they chose to appear naked in front of a camera? That doesn't make
someone a bad parent. It doesn't really make them anything.

Why do we make people fear the govenrment AND their exes AND crazy people on
the Internet? As society, we're doing a piss-poor job providing protection to
people that need it.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
Well, I agree the narrative s a bit hard to follow. I doubt anyone will lose
ther kids because of that ... That is a very hard thing to do in the US. You
essentially need categorical evidence if being a crackhead and even then ...

~~~
mcv
I've read some totally crazy stories about people losing their kids in the US.
Photos of breastfeeding or bathing (child porn!), playing outside
(irresponsible!), and who knows what else. And that was without existing
divorce and custody issues.

------
gngeal
"My computer had been bombarded with viruses, and a technician had advised me
to buy all new equipment because the malware was tough to remove."

I assume the technician was coincidentally also a salesman. ;-) "Tough to
remove"? What a load of crap.

~~~
krenoten
Rootkits exist that survive OS reinstalls. I don't know how prevalent they
are, but if you expect a target to try to reinstall their operating system to
attempt to purge an infection it is possible to counter this.

~~~
XavierMendel
Then replace the hard drive? I don't know of any viruses that could hide
itself in your case fans so I'm inclined to think that buying a whole new
computer is an overreaction.

~~~
DanBC
Proof of concept of rootkit that can survive disk replacement by installing
itself to the bios.

[http://www.geek.com/news/researchers-demonstrate-
persistent-...](http://www.geek.com/news/researchers-demonstrate-persistent-
rootkit-that-survives-hard-disk-wipe-726351/)

> _Researchers at Core Security Technologies demonstrated the techniques at
> CanSecWest security conference in Vancouver earlier this month, compromising
> one virtual machine running Windows and another running OpenBSD. The attack
> relies on modifying the BIOS of the target machine; startup firmware that is
> booted from a chip on the motherboard. Anybody wishing to use this kind of
> exploit in the wild would need to already have low-level access to the
> machine in order to make such a change. As the BIOS code is executed every
> time the system starts up, even if disks are wiped or replaced, this
> presents an attractive proposition for hackers._

I agree that it's unlikely, but it's nice to see someone actually saying "nuke
it"(although "Nuke it" should probably be just "wipe the drive and re-
install"), rather than fiddling around with combofix and malwarebytes.

Don't forget that some people don't have OS discs, they have a "Host Protected
Area" partition. Maybe rootkits and malware can infect that?

~~~
mistercow
>Maybe rootkits and malware can infect that?

If you can infect the BIOS, it seems pretty likely. On the other hand, if you
can infect the BIOS, why bother?

------
bowlofpetunias
Just a thought: if every American here railing against the ridiculously
prudish American culture could pretty please keep in mind that if they offer a
service that for instance bans people from posting pictures or distributing
apps because "boobies", _you_ are part of the problem.

This is often so easily dismissed on HN as "my product, my rules", when it is
actually a political statement of support for, or at least surrender to, the
notion that nudity is something wrong and shameful, especially for women.

You wanna solve the problem, start by cleaning up your own act, and take the
anti-"porn" provisions out of your TOS, and stop crucifying your users for
posting ordinary holiday snapshots because, "boobies".

~~~
marvin
This _should_ be blatantly obvious, but thank you for pointing it out. I think
that many people are blind to social expectations, taboos and their social
context.

I think Paul Graham's essay about mental fashions is a great summary of this
type of mental stretching, but most people fall far from the philosophic ideal
of being able to see society's unwritten rules from a distance.

[http://paulgraham.com/say.html](http://paulgraham.com/say.html)

------
Nursie
At some point can't she say "so there's a picture of my left tit on the net,
and?"

Also I don't understand why people like Moore haven't been sued into the
ground for profiting from copyright violation.

(edit: I mean other than the whole upfront cost aspect, but given how frickin'
insane copyright penalties are, you would think some or other lawyer would
take it on a no-win no-fee basis.)

~~~
DanBC
Sure, she can say that. Some professions don't welcome people who have nude
photographs of themselves on the Internet - teachers, for example.

It seems baffling to me that her partner would consider leaving her, but the
article says it was a concern.

Or sometimes people at vulnerable points in their lives are outed. Or not even
outed, just plain blackmailed.

It's very easy to say "just shrug it off", but the numbers of people
completing suicide (I've found 3 names in a very quick web search) shows that
it's not something that people can just get over.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/23724703](http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/23724703)

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24428437](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
scotland-24428437)

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24163284](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24163284)

~~~
Nursie
Those links are about very different cases of children being blackmailed.
What's at issue in the link is leaked pictures of grown women.

Clearly the behaviour of the people involved in this is abhorrent (for
multiple reasons) but there has to be a point where you stop caring. Moore is
not the only asshole in the story by a long stretch. He might not even be the
worst.

I mean, if the boyfriend thought about leaving her for a second then he's not
worth worrying about, he's an asshole. Whoever fired the kindergarten teacher
likewise. The real story is not the 'revenge porn', it's the morons that are
so upset by it that they fire someone, or that anyone would take kids away
from their mother over it, or really any of the societal bullshit about
nudity.

edit: And seriously, some professions don't like taking people who have been
naked on the internet? Those professions need to grow the f*ck up.

~~~
DanBC
Well, yes, his revenge porn only works because other people are arseholes. But
it's because all those other people are arseholes that the victims can't just
shrug it off.

------
yummyfajitas
The case against Hunter Moore makes me uncomfortable.

Consider a very similar hypothetical site, is-anyone-up-for-busting-
corruption.com. Much like isanyoneup.com, this site also posts media of people
engaging in actions they do not wish to be seen engaged in. When media is
posted, it is accompanied by contact information for the employers of the
people involved, and the desire is expressed for those people to be fired and
their lives ruined.

I can't say I like the precedent the attacks on Hunter Moore are setting, even
if he is a great big jerk.

~~~
caf
Any country that claims to operate based on the rule of law would recognise
that a site like the one you describe would be seeking to deny natural justice
to those depicted.

------
Glyptodon
I have one weird reservation - her daughter is/was 24, but doesn't seem to
have been involved a whole lot? Or maybe it's just written that way on
purpose?

Maybe it's just me, but leaving someone to mope seems a little like you're
treating them as more a child than an adult.

~~~
stephen
Do you have kids? Perhaps you don't understand the righteous anger that a
parent would feel in this scenario.

If this happened to my kid, I would also completely take over, and want them
involved as little as possible. Yes, even if they were 24.

~~~
Glyptodon
Of course I'd want to on some level, but I'd also want to make sure that even
if I helped I'd also be imparting the skills for them to accomplish things on
their own.

I think I view enabling a child's independence as a parent's most important
job, particularly in light of the often random and occasionally capricious
nature of death.

~~~
chris_wot
That's a nice sentiment, but when your child's life is being systematically
destroyed by pathologically perverted harassers then you just deal with the
situation.

Your argument is a little like saying that the best time to teach first aid is
when your kid has a gaping chest wound.

------
SilasX
>People claimed to be afraid of him. He had no fear oflawsuits; he knew a
victim would be unlikely to sue because a civil suit would cost $60,000
(according to attorney Marc Randazza)

Why do we allow that kind if situation to persist? What can be done about it?

~~~
ars
It's tough to do anything because what if the suit was false?

You can't just assume the suer is correct and deserves protection.

There is a right for someone to face their accuser, and you can't make them
pay just because they were accused.

For the money issue there are charities that do help. Regarding the name part
perhaps a judge can seal or redact the record?

~~~
SilasX
I was asking about the $60k issue. Why is it so expensve even in the most
clear-cut case?

And it looks like charity really can't fill the void in this case.

------
chris_wot
I am surprised that someone didn't injure the man, or worse.

~~~
fallingOff
In all seriousness, I look forward to a world with assassination markets every
time I read a story like this.

~~~
meepmorp
Yes, murder is the correct solution to situations that make you mad. This
cannot fail to go well for absolutely everyone.

~~~
fallingOff
If you trust in the feasibility of anonymous currency and anonymous internet
hosting/browsing (we are close to both already via Tor and Bitcoin/blind
mixes), then get ready for a world with assassination markets. It really
doesn't matter what you think about it.

I see a number of advantages to de facto anarchy, Hunter Moore getting offed
is only one.

~~~
taybin
You're so cyberpunk! You think the world wouldn't react to an assassination
market? You think the internet wouldn't be changed to disallow such a thing?
Think again.

~~~
fallingOff
No, I don't think anyone will be able to stop the proliferation of anonymous
networks and currencies.

I think there will be negatives in that world too. The whole thing is too big
for me to even reflect on. I'm not a cyberpunk.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
Certainly not that fact that they are unstable and large institutions with
real money would not back them?

------
spindritf
How was Gary Jones hacking those e-mail accounts?

How was Black Lotus blocking assets (pages, images) on Moore's website? And
why was a security company he hired(?) working against him?

~~~
krenoten
I'd assume he's just a botmaster that happens to automate creepy scanning of
compromised email accounts for such images, but the fact that 2 of the victims
knew each other suggests that he could be doing targeted phishing on new
targets that he identifies while browsing accounts.

I'm not familiar with Black Lotus, but looking at their page for
[http://www.blacklotus.net/protect/protection-for-
gear](http://www.blacklotus.net/protect/protection-for-gear) suggests that
they basically act as a proxy for a customer's service, preventing malicious
traffic from burdening the server. Because whatever goes in or out must pass
through them first, they can decide not to allow certain things out if they
are not comfortable with it.

------
belorn
> Fear entered my life. I received verbal attacks on Twitter, computer viruses
> and death threats. ... This prompted me to make Moore's home address public
> on Twitter.

And people wonder why death threats on the internet is not taken serious by
the police. If the victims of death threat do not care, then the police won't.
The result is that death threats then become normal on online forums, and real
death threats gets ignored.

------
pycassa
sorry for being off topic, but twitters pic flagging algorithms are crap in my
experience.

I searched for huntermoore in twitter and I came across a nsfw picture of a
man trying to cut his testicles.
[https://twitter.com/search?q=huntermoore&src=typd](https://twitter.com/search?q=huntermoore&src=typd)

twitter's safe picture algorithm is a fail in my experience, it fails to tag
these gross gore and nsfw pictures but it tags all the pictures uploaded by
fernando alonso formula 1 racer as nsfw by default, I never understood that.

[https://twitter.com/alo_oficial](https://twitter.com/alo_oficial) click on
any twitpicture and you will get a warning. make sure you have your profile
set to not view tagged pictures by default, "tweet media settings"

I always found this annoying being a fernando alonso fan.

------
gnu8
_I emailed the site owner, Hunter Moore, and asked him to take down the photo
in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. He refused._

Would it be to much trouble for these people to learn how to use the DMCA
properly? Obviously he is not going to turn his own web site off.

~~~
TillE
Since we're obviously talking about a very determined scumbag, it'd be too
easy to just host outside the US. Copyright law often does apply in this kind
of situation, but it's still not a great solution. Need more attention to
privacy rights.

~~~
chris_wot
Then he won't be covered under the safe harbour provisions of the DMCA.

------
n1ghtmare_
Well it looks like he got owned, I couldn't help but smile at the end :)

------
michaelochurch
What's really sick is the personality cult around this creep, even after the
end of IAU. I had originally assumed that the "I love Hunter" posts that
appear on the Internet on the topic were him-- he's a troll; trolls do that--
but apparently he has real-life fans.

It's basically the Shawn Parker story. No real accomplishments, but active
participation in the party scene leads to high status. If this current
incarnation of the VC-funded bubble hasn't crashed, in 3 years he'll be part
of the "tech" in-crowd and people here will be discussing his new venture
capital fund.

I, for one, will never take investment from any VC firm that employs Hunter
Moore as a Managing Partner.

~~~
EdwardDiego
> What's really sick is the personality cult around this creep

Yeah, I just had a look at his Twitter, there's a lot of girls sending him
naked pictures and telling him how much they love him, and a bunch of
sycophants avidly defending him (in a highly misogynistic manner, natürlich).

~~~
defen
> there's a lot of girls sending him naked pictures and telling him how much
> they love him

Some women just have really broken status filters. They're attracted to guys
with high status, and ignore the fact that he achieved that through evil
means. It's the same thing that causes women to fall in love with convicted
murderers serving life sentences.

From his vice interview:

A lot of people send the naked pictures to get jobs in the adult industry,
too. But the one thing they have in common is they’re fucking retarded. That’s
the similarity. They’re just stupid people. All I really do is take advantage
of them; it’s just them being fucking retarded.

[http://www.vice.com/read/hunter-moores-new-site-will-make-
ge...](http://www.vice.com/read/hunter-moores-new-site-will-make-getting-a-
blowjob-as-easy-as-ordering-pizza)

