
India Replaces China as Next Big Frontier for U.S. Tech Companies - jsnathan
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/technology/india-replaces-china-as-next-big-frontier-for-us-tech-companies.html
======
yati
This is great, but I do have some concerns:

\- The support for Modi's "Digital India" by Facebook looks like a rebranded
Internet.org, which will have serious implications on net neutrality in India,
affecting not only the users but also Indian Internet startups.

\- Packaging FB/Google/Twitter services for free consumption is unlikely to
encourage more content creation from the masses.

\- Our IT Act, often in conjunction with our blasphemy and defamation laws,
has repeatedly been used to silence citizens who dared to voice their opinions
on the Internet. Let us please not be blind consumers of "curated" news
tweets. Let us also fight for a right to create content, without being
censored, on the Free Web.

~~~
vjoshi
"Our IT Act, often in conjunction with our blasphemy and defamation laws, has
repeatedly been used to silence citizens who dared to voice their opinions on
the Internet. Let us please not be blind consumers of "curated" news tweets.
Let us also fight for a right to create content, without being censored, on
the Free Web." \- Indeed. The media, SV, India and the states are backing
Modi's campaign as you've said. I was surprised reading the article below
(although not super surprised given the Indian-SV relationship being so strong
at the moment) that these more concerning points you touch on haven't been
highlighted. Whilst from a technology perspective, this is no doubt a triumph
for modi and his team, the true benefit for Indians in India will only be seen
when laws are reformed to mirror the freedom the campaign stresses comes out
of technology. This is a start, more needs to be done.
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-
india-34376984](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-34376984)

------
noodles23
As someone with a startup that operates in both India and China, I completely
agree that India will be the next big thing.

Both are messed up in their own ways. The difference is that in India, things
are generally getting better. There are exceptions but the trend is moving
towards a better internet ecosystem.

China on the other hand is a case of how to F __* things up. They modernized
their tech backbone so quicky hundreds of millions of people have access to
fast (20 mbps+) internet. From there the government has made it virtually
impossible to have a global tech focussed startup in China.

Just an example- npm repos are by default blocked in China. Apparently the
automatic version control ended up with a number sequence that corresponds in
some bamboozled way with a black date that's censored. Government had a hissy
fit and therefore NPM is blocked. You have to reconfigure to use Chinese
locally hosted repos which is a security risk (Read: IOS malware in Chinese
versions of software)

We also got stung with a government request for data on users. Since the law
in China changes with every government official you meet, some of the shit
they ask for is beyond rediculous. To be fair, it's also happened in India,
but the frequency is decreasing.

~~~
vjoshi
Cheers for the insight. How does the request for data on users differ between
China and India? Am curious.

~~~
noodles23
There really isn't that much difference in the substance of the requests which
was not what I expected.

It's more the frequency and how the requests are delivered that is different

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philsalesses
As an American who up and moved to China on a whim and more recently started a
tech company split between Boston and Shanghai, I can only greet this news
with jubilation. Life here over the last two years has become simply
impossible. Good luck to you China.

~~~
puranjay
Care to share more details on how things have changed?

~~~
philsalesses
In terms of policy, probably nothing. They have however become more competent,
meaning the firewall isn't easy to hop anymore and I went to MIT. I don't know
how non-technical foreigners can do anything here.

~~~
chvid
Every expat in China I have met paid a few dollars a month for a VPN and had
as much Facebook, Google, YouTube as the rest of us.

Are you only referring to Great Firewall when you say that "life here is
simply impossible"?

~~~
philsalesses
I have 4 (ExpressVPN, VyprVPN, StrongVPN, and a fourth I'll never tell anyone
where it is). They do not reliably connect, are prone to attacks from the
government and even when they do connect, you'll be throttled into oblivion.
Before I discovered Shadowsocks (Chinese went to clouds house and made him
remove it from github), my VPN would, within 3-5 minutes, be throttled to
about 128k average speed. I would be elated if I could get a 1 MBps connection
out. And for those wondering, I pay for 200MBps and I do get that in within
the Chinese intranet.

~~~
hansstam
You say you went to MIT and don't know how to set up your own VPN server?

~~~
philsalesses
Aren't you snarky... Read carefully. I have a fourth. And that wouldn't fix it
anyway. They detect it on the protocol level. They posison your DNS.

~~~
rndmind
That's a legitimate question, setting up an OpenVPN server is trivial. I am
curious, have you tried using obfusproxy or an alternate way to obfuscate your
vpn traffic?

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gaius
Free sounds good, but of course it isn't really "free", stuff is being built
and the people who build it, and the people who makes the parts and so on, are
all getting paid. You can't put a billion people online "for free". So who is
paying? Obviously the people themselves, eventually. India would be wise to
ensure the profits made by American companies are taxed in India. This is the
mistake the EU made and why Google, Amazon, Apple et al are laughing all the
way to their offshore banks.

~~~
marcoperaza
That's the mistake that the EU made? Not taxing American companies enough?

Instead of focusing on confiscating wealth from the successful, how about
creating a climate where Europeans can create similarly successful businesses?

~~~
gaius
No, it was allowing companies to play country against country, e.g. the
"double Irish" and the "Dutch sandwich"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement)

------
jobu
There have been some predictions in the last few years that China will peak
economically in the near future due to population controls (one-child policy)

[http://wallstreetflaneur.com/forget-china-how-population-
cha...](http://wallstreetflaneur.com/forget-china-how-population-changes-will-
prevent-china-from-becoming-the-next-great-superpower/)

The other prediction is that India will become an economic superpower by 2030:

[http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/india-to-become-
economic-s...](http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/india-to-become-economic-
superpower-by-2030-us-intelligence-526055.html)

------
rajskhot
I wish they'd talk more about net neutrality at the Facebook Townhall Q&A
session that concluded recently.

------
caskance
The implication that it was ever the other way around is baseless. US and
India share a primary language. US and China really don't.

------
arsalanb
Meanwhile in Kashmir, which is an "integral" part of India (apparently) —
[http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/kashmir/access-denied-
kas...](http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/kashmir/access-denied-kashmir-sans-
internet-on-eid-days/197463.html)

~~~
abhishivsaxena
As an Indian I would say this action by the government was both very
unfortunate and very un-pragmatic.

However, it would be worthwhile to note that it was the elected and relatively
autonomous state government of Jammu and Kashmir which enforced this ban.

It seems there was a sense of panic in the J&K government because of the
recent rise in terrorist attacks, and waving of ISIS flags each Friday in
Srinagar. So they thought that some elements - of all shades/religions - might
use this occasion to incite communal tensions between the Hindu and Muslim
residents of state. Not a reason valid enough IMHO, but worth to note.

Anyways they would be held accountable for this in the next elections, so
let's hope it never happens again.

~~~
arsalanb
Agree with you 100%

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sr_banksy
This is great.

Also, worth noting that tech is seemingly the one area of regulation /
legislation that sees swift and decisive action in favor of the average
Indian. But that's due to the sheer noise generated by the empowered digital
Indian on such issues.

\- Huge pushback on OTT regulation by TRAI (India's FCC)
[http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/social/trai-
seek...](http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/social/trai-seeks-to-
regulate-ott-players-like-skype-viber-whatsapp-and-google-talk/)

\- Repeal of Section 66A [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
india-32029369](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-32029369) etc.

------
known
"Rape fear keeps US students out of India" \--Nancy Powell
[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rape-fear-keeps-
US-...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rape-fear-keeps-US-students-
out-of-India-Nancy-Powell/articleshow/26059607.cms)

------
dharma1
Me and 2 friends have spent the last 8 months building an Android app, just
launched in India and are getting good traction. Anyone have recommendations
for VC's/angels - either in the region or interested in it?

