
Comic Sans Criminal - bjonathan
http://www.comicsanscriminal.com/
======
powrtoch
Here's what I would like to say about this issue of a font being for a
purpose:

Yes, most of the examples presented on this site are heinous and tremendously
bad typeface choices. But that has nothing to do with the fact that comic sans
was designed to mirror comic book lettering. The designer's intent is not
embedded in the typeface, only his actual results.

Papyrus falls into the same category. People get bent out of shape about it:
"It was meant to look like Egyptian lettering, but now it's on my Greek menu!
It makes no sense!"

Guess what? It doesn't matter what it was "intended" to convey, it matters
what is actually conveyed when people read it. Frutiger was designed for
airport signage, but it happens to look great outside of airports too.
Granted, it was never meant to be a niche font, but the principle applies: you
shouldn't get upset on account of people using something in ways you didn't
foresee or intend.

All this to say, if you're going to argue that a font is ugly or doesn't
belong somewhere, that's fine, but your argument shouldn't be based on what
the font was intended for. Sometimes the things we make turn out to be way
more useful than we thought.

And I'll stick my neck out here and even say that I think Papyrus often looks
good on menus :)

~~~
j_baker
Regardless, I think the point is to choose fonts in the context of what you're
writing, not because they "look cute". Now, whether you chose that font
because of its original author's purpose or because you have some other
purpose is a separate issue. In that regard, it seems like you agree on the
major idea: that you should _have_ a purpose. The way you choose that purpose
is a detail.

------
blhack
You hate comic sans do you? You know what I hate? Obnoxious jerks trying to
make people feel stupid because they didn't use the right _typeface_ when they
made a sign to put on the staff refrigerator.

Do you know what the purpose of that sign is? It's not to evoke en emotion,
not to convey some abstract message about the corporate structure of the
refrigerator, not to let everybody know that the fridge is successful enough
to afford some designer who can spend time obsessing over font choices, it's
to abstract the thought of "please stop eating my yogurt" into a universally-
understandable form.

This type of thing is important if you're Charles Schwab and you're trying to
make me feel warm and cuddly about trusting you with my money. The message I'm
getting from your ads goes beyond just the words. This is the same as keeping
the grass in front of your building trimmed, making sure your staff irons
their clothes, that your building isn't in disrepair, that your board members
aren't caught doing embarrassing thigns, etc. etc. It's all image. It's 3
forks at dinner. Do you need 3 forks? No, you don't.

Likewise, do you need to worry yourself with things like the typeface that
you're using to write a birthday invitation for your 9 year old?

No.

~~~
chc
> Do you know what the purpose of that sign is? It's not to evoke en emotion,
> not to convey some abstract message about the corporate structure of the
> refrigerator, not to let everybody know that the fridge is successful enough
> to afford some designer who can spend time obsessing over font choices, it's
> to abstract the thought of "please stop eating my yogurt" into a
> universally-understandable form.

Are you trying to argue that Times New Roman is not up to that task? Because
otherwise I don't see how all this discussion of the sign's purpose makes any
difference to the fact that it looks stupid.

Similarly, somebody might be wearing a pair of women's granny panties on his
head because his ears get cold, but that does not explain why he would do such
a thing when there are earmuffs, scarves and hats readily available.

~~~
blhack
>Are you trying to argue that Times New Roman is not up to that task?

No.

>I don't see how all this discussion of the sign's purpose makes any
difference to the fact that it looks stupid.

It only looks stupid to a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny minority of people who seem
to feel as though they should devote a significant portion of their time
reminding the rest of the world that they're stupid.

>Similarly, somebody might be wearing a pair of women's granny panties on his
head because his ears get cold, but that does not explain why he would do such
a thing when there are earmuffs, scarves and hats readily available.

This isn't even remotely similar and you know it. Using Comic Sans instead of
Times is more like using a salad fork to eat your steak.

~~~
chc
That's simply not true. I don't devote any significant portion of my time to
reminding the rest of the world that they're stupid, but I still think Comic
Sans looks dumb.

And no, it is not similar to using a salad fork to eat steak. You've even
pointed out the difference in your comments: "Do you know what the purpose of
that sign is? It's not to evoke en emotion…" This recognizes that choice of
font has a significant practical impact in many contexts. Which fork you use
for salads is always just a fiat, and experts in the field of dinner etiquette
realize that it doesn't have a rational basis.

Wearing panties on your head is a much better analogy. Granny panties will
keep your head warm, and people who want to feel superior and open-minded
might say, "Hey, stop being elitist about what counts as acceptable headgear"
— but none of that changes the fact that wearing panties on your head looks
silly and there are better ways to accomplish that goal.

~~~
blhack
>And no, it is not similar to using a salad fork to eat steak.

And yes, it is. Fonts _can_ evoke emotional responses, but so can steaks. In
the example I used (reminding a coworker not to steal your yogurt from the
fridge), however, the point isn't to cause an emotion, it is just to convey a
very simple, very 1-dimensional message.

In the example of eating a steak with a salad fork, the point of the action is
to get the steak into your mouth, not to convey to message to those around you
know you are a member of the class of people that know which forks to use on
which portions of their food.

------
mattdempseycom
Dear all, my name's Matt Dempsey, I'm the designer and author of
ComicSansCriminal.com.

For a bit of context. I'm a Graphic Design student in the second year of my
BA. This website formed 1/3rd of a self directed project which consisted of an
educational leaflet, a set of stickers and a website. The website is basically
a web version of the print booklet, which I focussed least of my effort on.
The website was never intended to be seen by a large number of people, it was
coded quickly with little thought for web standards because I only expected it
to be seen by my tutors for a quick 30 second read.

I do not think I am above anyone else and am not trying to preach. The world
spread inappropriate use of Comic Sans is an issue I'm tired of. This is a
simple, straightforward website to try and let people know that it's
inappropriate to use it in some instances and that there are alternatives. I
stated at the end of my project that if I could just get one person to stop
and decide whether a font was appropriate before using it as opposed to just
using their default Comic Sans, then I would have succeeded and would be
happy.

The fact that I've had 80,000 unique visitors in the last 14 hours is
something I had never anticipated and was not prepared for. I've corrected the
"it's" issue, which I spotted myself soon after launching but was unable to
rectify due to being away from the computer with the PSD files on until later
today. Please let me know what the other grammar issues are and I'll rectify
those too.

At the end of the day I think you guys are taking this a little too seriously.
It was supposed to be a bit of fun, a tongue-in-cheek piece of work viewed by
a few people that would hopefully make someone stop and think a little. That's
all.

Thanks for your feedback, it's been a pretty overwhelming day!

------
RyanMcGreal
This, from a grocer's apostrophe criminal:

> It quickly became popular for use with young children in primary schools &
> other childcare thanks to it's [sic] fun, child-like appearance

~~~
necolas
The markup is also fairly criminal: no content; all background images.

~~~
regularfry
Not only that, it doesn't even render properly on a netbook screen. Don't we
check our resolutions any more?

------
snorkel
A rebuttal by Comic Sans:
<http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/monologues/15comicsans.html>

~~~
jrockway
Excellent. The typography reminds me why I stopped using webmail. People like
my mom actually wrote me messages in this font, and I was powerless to change
it.

Now I read my email in Emacs, and everything is very pretty DejaVu Sans
Mono-9.

~~~
avree
GMail has had the option to disable custom fonts/images/HTML since 2005.

Just FYI.

~~~
w1ntermute
Some people just aren't satisfied until they're reading their mail in Emacs.

------
lambda
I feel like I need to link to this story whenever Comic Sans is mentioned:
[http://www.metafilter.com/86695/I-thought-I-was-the-only-
one...](http://www.metafilter.com/86695/I-thought-I-was-the-only-one#2824387)

~~~
nollidge
Reminds me of an book about grief called _Tear Soup_ [1], which is typeset in
Comic Sans. It's actually somewhat appropriate, since it's a large picture
book ostensibly aimed at children (but not insultingly - adults can learn
something too).

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Tear-Soup-Pat-
Schweibert/dp/0961519762...](http://www.amazon.com/Tear-Soup-Pat-
Schweibert/dp/0961519762/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293033762&sr=8-1)

------
anigbrowl
The legal newspaper I read had a 1/4 page advert a few weeks ago along the
lines of "__________ Law Firm deeply regrets to announce the untimely death of
its senior partner, Mr. _________"

It was, of course, in Comic Sans. Although it seemed rude to inquire, I'm
still wondering whether this was some horrendous _faux pas_ by the secretarial
staff, or whether it reflected some well-known habit of the deceased and was
thus entirely appropriate.

------
mycroftiv
The only thing worse than using Comic Sans in the wrong context is projecting
an insufferable attitude of superiority about font choice, especially when
said insufferable attitude is displayed on a website that makes highly
questionable design decisions of its own.

~~~
EliRivers
And genocide. Genocide is more wrong too!

~~~
mycroftiv
And pedantry such as taking rhetorical tropes literally!

~~~
joakin
Amazing how some people love destructive criticizing and never give back
suggestions or explain the problems...

------
JonnieCache
Oh my good lordy lord, this has just taken me back fourteen years to what
could be the greatest IRC client ever:

MICROSOFT COMIC CHAT!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Comic_Chat>

This was the original source of the font in question. Binaries must be found,
VMWare awaits...

~~~
joezydeco
Jerkcity is still using it, and that's good enough for me. HUGHUAHALAGPHMPPH.

------
endtime
If the webmaster is reading, your click to scroll doesn't quite work right in
Opera - it always scrolls from the top of the page, rather than the current
position, resulting in all the previous slides flashing past each time I
advance.

~~~
joakin
Same issue for iPhone here. Also rotating the device screws the page even
turning it back to vertical

------
dansingerman
Nice UI.

Can they pledge not to use images to render text?

~~~
hugh3
How is it nice UI? I'm forced to read eight words at a time, then click to get
eight more words. I have no idea how long this is going to last, and I can't
skip ahead to see whether it gets more interesting later on.

~~~
mike-cardwell
Vertical scrollbar?

~~~
burgerbrain
That doesn't solve their terrible usage of light blue font on a white
background. I agree, this UI sucks.

Edit: and vice-versa apparently. How can this person be so aware of typography
but completely fail at picking readable colors? Furthermore, this website
doesn't even work with readability, so it's not like I have any recourse.

------
tel
The funny part about this font has always been that people choose it _in
positive response to it's style_. It's often been quoted as friendly and
welcoming, and that's not so surprising when most people have only get
experience with Times New Roman these days.

If you want to kill Comic Sans, put another friendly But well-designed font on
every computer in the world and then redesign as many things as possible to
increase its public mindshare. Only once there's a viable friendly-font
alternative do people even have a place to go away from CS.

~~~
frossie
But I don't get the impression that folk like that want to kill Comic Sans per
se. If you put another "friendly" font out there, the point about not writing
probation notices in it would still stand.

~~~
tel
I'd much rather someone set a probation notice in anything on the list below
than in Comic Sans. I'd also rather they set it responsibly, but though you
can't fix a sense of style at least you can provide people with better tools.

<http://www.fontshop.com/fontlist/alternatives/comic_sans/>

(especially MVB Pedestria, obviously, although I don't think most people would
consider it in fair running with Comic Sans)

------
maukdaddy
Is Comic Sans really easier to read for dyslexics, or am I missing an obvious
joke?

~~~
Timmy_C
It has long descenders and ascenders which make it easy for dyslexic readers
to differentiate letters. Dyslexic readers also find handwritten looking fonts
easier to read because they are more familiar with that style.

~~~
Groxx
Probably in part due to them being less symmetrical. "bd" are almost identical
in the font on HN, but mirrored, while in handwriting you form different
connection angles because you write them differently.

------
jimmyjim
Curiously enough, I keep seeing smart people using Comic Sans font when they
shouldn't. Very, very smart people. Some of my best professors, some of the
most talented programmers I know, etc. Even SPJ! ( <http://vimeo.com/15467880>
)

And then it comes to me if I'm sitting here caring about presentation more
than the content like a prude. I'm not picking on anyone -- just remarking on
my very own situation =).

~~~
wmeredith
This is a great example of the difference between intelligence and ignorance.

------
zck
It's interesting how this website, while presumably written by a typography
enthusiast, contains text that is almost entirely all-caps.

~~~
dangrossman
It has a few grammar errors too, which is never good when telling _others_ how
to write.

~~~
kingsidharth
Mixing grammar with type? I don't think that is good at all.

~~~
Vivtek
Leaves one hell of a hangover in the morning, I can tell you.

------
newobj
This grammatical criminal could go "sans" a few apostrophes -- "thanks to
_it's_ fun, child-like appearance."

------
pygy_
Despite the hatred among typophiles, Comic Sans managed to become an
ubiquitous font.

I think that we must look beyond the dogma/bigotry and try to understand the
popularity of the font.

Its fun personality has been mentioned in several posts in the comments, but
comicsanscriminal.com ironically offers another major argument in favor of the
font: its legibility.

Comic Sans is popular at elementary school and among dyslexic people because
it is easier to read for them. Even though non-dyslexic adults are better at
deciphering other fonts, I wouldn't be surprised if the attentional/cognitive
load for reading Comic Sans was lower that what's needed for any of the so-
called "better" fonts.

This could be scientifically tested easily.

------
27182818284
Smooth-scrolling pages are _all the rage_ right now. Fashion trends on the web
are fascinating

------
mhd
Their comic font alternatives are pretty bad, though. Blambot has a few better
ones.

And of course there's "Comic Jens"[1], which is in the same vein, but not as
obnoxious for some kind of reason. (And free, available as a web font etc.)

[1]: <http://www.netzallee.de/extra/comic-jens-en>

------
gursikh
"Comic dogs don't talk in Times New Roman." - Creator of Comic Sans.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qefD5YHPeEM>

Touche, but then lawyers, doctors, police officers, senatorial aides, and
cancer researchers shouldn't be talking in Comic Sans.

------
comex
Hmm: <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1237941/comicsanscriminal.png>

~~~
Groxx
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2028132>

They beat ya to the punch.

------
Semiapies
The links to resources on better comic fonts and - even more so - dyslexic-
friendly fonts make this actually useful.

------
CodeMage
Help out typography "illiterates" like me: what are the two fonts you used for
most of what you wrote?

~~~
silentbicycle
While this doesn't answer your direct question, try taking a good-sized block
of text (a couple paragraphs from Project Gutenberg, lorem ipsum text,
whatever) and print it side by side, in several different fonts. Compare the
feeling you get from the typography itself.

I mostly write in MonteCarlo (<http://www.bok.net/MonteCarlo/>), but
programming fonts are a different discussion entirely.

