
Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra - tooba
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47880288
======
michaelt
There's a better video of the drones here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhDrfUgpB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhDrfUgpB0)

Google's delivery drones combine a multirotor design with fixed-wings. It
seems like an eminently sensible design to me; fixed-wing operation will be
quieter and more power-efficient, allowing longer travel distances (unlike the
early Amazon Prime Air videos [1]), while hover capability avoids the need to
parachute the load (unlike the current Zipline drones [2]) and provides a
hover-and-land-almost-anywhere capability I imagine is useful.

Presumably the winch-down-the-load design reduces the risk of a user putting
their hands into the blades - not to mention reducing the risk from customers
choosing an inappropriate landing location; I imagine the drone can also
jettison the winch cord if it gets caught on anything. It precludes delivering
directly to apartment windows - but AFAIK no-one else is trying that either.

It's a pity they haven't released clear info on these drones' range, round-
trip time and weight carrying capacity. Which are of course critical to
working out the profitability of a citywide coffee delivery service.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR9PoBAssw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR9PoBAssw0)
[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoUBfLxZz0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoUBfLxZz0)

~~~
cs02rm0
I wonder if the winch is to prevent people nicking the drone.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Why would they? How often are delivery trucks stolen, for example?

~~~
michaelmior
Delivery trucks (currently) have drivers which does complicate theft.

~~~
penagwin
You know, I thought of a bunch of reasons why drones would be more likely to
be stolen, but it never occurred to me that delivery trucks are accompanied by
people.

------
rhacker
> Wing said the feedback obtained during its trials had been "valuable" and it
> hoped to "continue the dialogue".

That's code for they have asked their lawyer to see what was legal and if they
can simply ignore the complaints.

We continue to wage war on silence. The other day I was far the heck out there
on a trail and the only things I could hear were squirrels birds and a few
other things. My soul was at peace. We can't have that in cities or even
suburbs any more. Instead we get BUMP BUMP BUMP from passing cars. The level
of anxiety we get from cities is insane and people don't really even
understand this until they are 60 years old. I'm 38 and I understand it.

~~~
yaacov
I don’t get anxiety from cities. I love cities. Your experience is common but
not universal.

~~~
grandmczeb
Same - I actually like city noise. It’s really annoying when people assume
their preferences extend to everyone.

------
bamboozled
It's difficult to imagine that this is ok from a privacy standpoint. I mean
yes, the claim is that there is a "low-resolution fitted for debugging
purposes", but why would Google stop there?

There are now cameras flying around Canberra and there is seemingly not a
single way for a civilian to differentiate between a Google delivery done or a
fake drone used for spying. There will be no way for people to opt-out of
this.

I see this will end up similar to the way people who send emails to Gmail
users cannot opt out of Google being able to use their personal information
without consent. You will be on camera whether you like it or not.

Canberra also supports large native bird populations, this can't be too
healthy for their stress levels as this scales up.

~~~
jrockway
It is surprising to me that this is the straw that broke the camel's back.
There are billions of Android users that appear to be browsing the web on
their phones but are actually taking pictures of you (you personally!) and
uploading them to Google. There are planes flying around taking pictures.
There are drones flying around taking pictures. There are satellites flying
around taking pictures.

The cat is out of the bag. There are pictures of you. Not sure why that should
stop drone delivery (or self-driving cars for that matter, which guess what,
have cameras on them).

~~~
ryanhuff
Are you claiming that Google takes and transfers images of the user as they
browse the web on their Android device?

------
hpkuarg
133,000 Packages Lost as Google Cancels Wing Service in Midair

~~~
tdhoot
Doesn’t repeating this trope on every Google related topic get old? We get it,
they cancel projects. Hahaha?

~~~
slashink
I’d agree that it would have gotten old if this was an isolated past of Google
but fact is that Google shuts downs products left and right even today,
recently Google Inbox.

People will keep making fun of Google for this as long as Google keep throwing
products at the wall that they don’t intend to keep supporting.

~~~
tdhoot
Googles inclination to deprecate products is common knowledge at this point.
What value is added by restating the obvious in every Google related thread?

~~~
hpkuarg
It's an (admittedly somewhat low-value) homage to the classic Onion
article.[0]

[0] [https://www.theonion.com/133-dead-as-delta-cancels-flight-
in...](https://www.theonion.com/133-dead-as-delta-cancels-flight-in-
midair-1819568121)

------
mrtksn
I personally expect that the first successful drone delivery service will be
implemented by some sophisticated drug dealers because unlike with all these
drone delivery services, they would need to be quiet and reliably deliver
products instead of publicity.

~~~
montenegrohugo
Chose one:

    
    
      - quiet
      - drone

~~~
icebraining
That's only true for multi-rotors. Fixed-wing drones can be fairly quiet.

~~~
skykooler
Especially if they glide over the target, release the payload with a
parachute, and only restart the propeller(s) once they're a ways away.

~~~
jonfw
No need for a parachute with the payloads that drug dealers are dropping.

------
spectramax
No one talks about the noise. Every time I read about drone delivery, this
major aspect is omitted from the discussion but I believe it would be a
nuisance to have drones droning around all the time making a huge amount of
noise.

Airplanes make a lot of noise and it is still a hot topic in neighborhoods
adjacent to airports.

Little hobby drones make some noise but when you’ve got a drone lifting 5kg of
weight, it’s going to make a tremendous amount of noise.

~~~
Reedx
~1/3rd of this article is dedicated to noise. :)

 _Trials of the drones had attracted complaints from residents in Bonython,
Canberra, who said they were noisy and intrusive.

The Bonython Against Drones campaign said the devices could be heard from "a
long way off, both coming and leaving".

"When they do a delivery drop they hover over the site and it sounds like an
extremely loud, squealing vacuum cleaner," the group said on its website.

In response, Wing said it had developed a quieter drone. The aviation
authority says Wing must use this quieter drone for its commercial service._

~~~
maxxxxx
"quieter" doesn't mean "quiet". I am very doubtful that they can reduce it to
bearable levels.

------
piker
Wow that noise is terrifying. Compare:
[https://youtu.be/oU4Rk0NATNs?t=168](https://youtu.be/oU4Rk0NATNs?t=168)

~~~
pwenzel
Or the Mike Patton version:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgex1ukrsko](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgex1ukrsko)

------
reustle
Ignoring the noise, politics, and financial feasibility of this, we sure are
living in the damn future.

~~~
elicash
Noise is already solved in the one they're using in the commercial service,
per the article. Politics also were cleared, as the aviation authority there
gave them permission. So yes, financial feasibility remains.

~~~
peteretep
> Noise is already solved

The article simply says they have a quieter drone than their first one

~~~
elicash
Fair, but it's at least solved to a degree with they have permission to use it
commercially. There could be other standards for what's considered solving the
problem, but that seems like a reasonable one.

------
ansible
The design of the drones is interesting.

I've though that the original Project Wing design (flying wing that
transitions 90 degrees for vertical hover) would have been more efficient. Or
a larger version of the E-flite X-Vert VTOL:

[https://www.horizonhobby.com/x-vert-vtol-bnf-basic-
efl1850?g...](https://www.horizonhobby.com/x-vert-vtol-bnf-basic-
efl1850?gclid=CjwKCAjwy7vlBRACEiwAZvdx9rloOrrq_gmUq3V812ZqovBKKwQENX-9CJ4S2dCslGrB3cNP_FQjeBoCMssQAvD_BwE)

~~~
nickparker
I suspect they're still headed that way long term, and just went with this
design to get testing ASAP because the pusher configuration has more
challenges.

The flip maneuver is difficult to integrate with their sky crane style system.
You absolutely don't want to tilt your payload because that ruins lots of
foods (coffee, pizza) so you either need some sort of pivot mechanism for your
payload attachment smack dab in the middle of the craft, or you have to do
some daring aerobatics to finish retracting the crane as you begin low speed
level flight.

Their noise problem is almost entirely because of those tiny propellers - A
pusher wing with a pair of much larger (10+"), slower props could be pretty
quiet.

~~~
jpm_sd
You are semi-correct. The tail sitter design was abandoned because it was too
difficult/unstable to control while using the winch.

The core team that started Wing quit X awhile back and formed a new company,
Skydio, which has built an incredibly cool drone for the purpose of high-tech
narcissism:

[https://www.skydio.com/](https://www.skydio.com/)

[https://www.pcmag.com/review/366306/skydio-r1](https://www.pcmag.com/review/366306/skydio-r1)

------
NotPaidToPost
You can now have shrimps literally thrown onto the barbie from the sky.

We live in the future.

------
god_bless_texas
Interesting, the FAA has announced the first drone delivery air carrier
approval in the US will happen in April. I would have thought Flirtey would
win this race but according to the NYT the only application listed is from
Google Wing.

~~~
justtopost
Strong arm lobbying has its uses.

------
js2
I thought this was being done in rural China since mid last year by JD.com:

[https://www.economist.com/business/2018/06/09/how-e-
commerce...](https://www.economist.com/business/2018/06/09/how-e-commerce-
with-drone-delivery-is-taking-flight-in-china)

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-03/china-
s-o...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-03/china-s-on-the-
fast-track-to-making-uav-drone-deliveries)

And in Japan:

> Rakuten has been offering drone delivery in Japan since 2016 and unmanned
> vehicle trials since 2018. It said that working with JD — which claims to
> have racked up 400,000 minutes of delivery flight time — will “accelerate
> the development and commercialization” of its human-free last-mile delivery
> efforts.

[https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/jd-com-drones-
rakuten/](https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/jd-com-drones-rakuten/)

------
Mtinie
"They will not be allowed to fly over crowds or main roads."

I know this is specific to the current set of guidelines, but if I imagine
this service launching in my part of the world I'm unsure how it would even
work with this requirement. To go from one side of my city to the other you
have to traverse a number of main roads. If you're setting up base stations
all over the place to launch from to keep from breaking across main roads I
can't see how this solves the distribution problem (though it may solve the
"we have to pay humans to deliver packages and takeout food" problem...)

~~~
aeternus
The FAA is currently considering relaxing this requirement.

------
atonse
Are people really even considering this given how noisy it is?

------
lm28469
What's the use case besides delivering to remote areas ?

I can get Zipline's mission [0], but personal deliveries ... ? A UPS truck
with hundreds of packages surely is more efficient than an army of drones in
urban areas.

[https://x.company/projects/wing/](https://x.company/projects/wing/)

> "Wing is developing a new method of transporting goods that’s faster,
> cheaper, and more environmentally friendly"

What's the advantage compared to an electric van ?

> 27% of greenhouse gas emissions come from transportation.

I mean, yeah sure, but changing the last 3km of the delivery from van to drone
won't change the fact that the coffee beans or new iphone you just bought came
from the other side of the world via shipping containers which is 99%+ of the
pollution associated to the delivery. [1]

[0] [https://flyzipline.com](https://flyzipline.com)

[1] [https://medium.com/@victoria27/heres-how-much-pollution-
ship...](https://medium.com/@victoria27/heres-how-much-pollution-shipping-
containers-and-freight-trucks-cause-b358cb034c70)

~~~
marsRoverDev
I imagine this would be used for Immediacy solutions. Amazon Prime Now being a
great example of which.

It would cost more, but per order it's probably cheaper than a guy on a bike
given guy on said bike + insurance + overheads will take a bigger cut than the
drone will.

~~~
truebosko
There's not much overhead on contracted Uber-eats couriers, since they are
acting as contractors, not full time employees.

~~~
judge2020
More often than not takeout delivery services will drive with gas-fueled cars,
and reducing emissions is one of the big points the article and video [0]
touch on.

0:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19633810](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19633810)

------
tuberelay
Can engineers please critique the following idea:

Design city size "Spidercam" style delivery systems
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDGAa6ww7S4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDGAa6ww7S4)

3-4 tall pylons with heavy duty winches and kevlar cable linked in the middle
to hold a winch system that can lower a delivery box anywhere in the city.

1/4 inch kevlar rope weighs 2lb per 100ft, therefore a 2 mile kevlar rope
would weigh 210lbs, but has a load bearing capacity of 9500lbs. So this system
would allow accurate delivery anywhere in a 2mile x 2 mile area.

Potentially these could be coupled to allow transfer between areas to allow
deliveries to be passed along a chain.

Multiple winches could be stacked on pylons to allow multiple sets of ropes,
with winches which are near to delivery/pickup points moved downwards and to
lower rope tension to avoid other winches/ropes bumping into them.

~~~
derp_dee_derp
I can tell you why this will never be a thing:

the infrastructure cost is way too high. Not just the cost of materials and
labor, either. I'm talking social, political, and environmental costs. people
would fight this left and right.

Power lines are already considered an eye sore in many places and are required
to be underground. good luck convincing people that a power line with a bunch
of moving boxes on it is going to be any better. its essentially a gondola for
packages and no one wants that in their backyard.

------
gordon_freeman
I'm wondering what exactly Google will use this home delivery by drone tech
for? Their Google Express service is nice but it's not their main business and
this makes a lot more sense if it was launched by e-commerce giant like
Amazon. I'm just wondering how Google will convert this tech in a viable
business?

~~~
v7p1Qbt1im
The main area Assistant is worse at compared to Alexa is shopping. They kind
of need to have their own e-commerce platform. You could (eventually) combine
that with drone delivery.

------
swamp40
Curious if mufflers for electric motors have been invented? Does the noise
come from the motor, or from the prop cutting thru the air?

~~~
ansible
The motors themselves don't make much noise.

The noise is from the props themselves.

------
jcelerier
"release the hypnodrones !"

------
dejaime
To be discontinued...

------
alexissantos
For a moment, I thought the drones were delivering homes, and I was very
excited. I am still excited, but less so now.

------
fifnir
I just want to have a pizza delivered to my balcony one day

~~~
justtopost
When in college, I once delivered to a 3rd story balcony via ladder. Anything
is possible if you hire the right people. Unfortunately, this service requires
a large spot in your yard. Sorry apartment dwellers.

~~~
SilverbackCoder
People with the yard space will become hubs (for a relatively small fee) for
apartment dwellers. Or, the drones will deliver to the roofs of the apartment
blocks instead.

~~~
v7p1Qbt1im
Or maybe windows at some point?

------
dreamcompiler
I guess the good news is that when Google inevitably cancels this project the
barrier to entry for other companies is not very high.

------
no1youknowz
I can envisage a future where you have huge drones with landing pads that fly
between hubs in a set amount of times.

This will then allow individuals to request a drone from a 3rd party. Load up
the package and program the drone for the final destination. The drone flies
to the LZ drone where it lands and waits until its main destination and then
resumes flight until it delivers the package.

The drone could have a wallet where it takes the initial payment from the
customer. Which a % goes to the drone operator, when the drone lands a % goes
to the LZ operator and any other stops.

Having essentially P2P delivery system will be a total game changer!

~~~
marsRoverDev
I think with today's technology there's no need to build a card reader into
the drone itself. It can just be handled online prior to delivery (or after
successful delivery).

