

Researchers Invent Everlasting Battery Material - pwg
http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/researchers-invent-everlasting-battery-material-47222

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cagenut
Here's a bit better article:
[http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/11/wessells-20111124.ht...](http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/11/wessells-20111124.html)

This is a very early lab result, loooot can still go wrong from here. However
40k cycles is pretty awesome (side note: "everlasting" is an annoying headline
writer hack statement)

Key point: this is not for electric cars, this is for grid storage...

"Much recent research on batteries, including other work done by Cui’s
research group, has focused on lithium-ion batteries, which have a high energy
density; however, energy density really doesn’t matter for storage on the
power grid. Cost is a greater concern."

" _We decided we needed to develop a new chemistry if we were going to make
low-cost batteries and battery electrodes for the power grid."

—Colin Wessells_

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twelvechairs
> Key point: this is not for electric cars, this is for grid storage...

Yes - and your link is much better on this. The first article seems quite off
with insinuations such as 'could the days of the humble lithium ion battery be
numbered'... As far as I know one of the main advantages of lithium-ion is
their light weight - hence their use in weight-critical devices (phones, cars,
etc.). I didn't see anything in either of these links mentioning weight, but I
assume a potassium based battery is likely to be much heavier than a lithium-
based battery...

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keenerd
Plus it is annoying to hear the Li-Ion chemistry described as "humble". It is
more of a stuck up diva. Charge over 90%? Rapid degradation. Discharge under
10%? Rapid degradation. Operate at room temperature? Rapid degradation. Even
if you keep the battery at 50% charge inside a fridge it will still rot apart
in three years. And this is not even mentioning the extremely fickle charge
controllers that can make the cells catch fire. Li-ion batteries also have
horrible energy volume (MJ/L) and have been central to planned obsolescence in
consumer electronics.

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spauka
Calling it an 'Everlasting Battery Material' seems a little bit misleading...
Even the first paragraph acknowledges that it has a potentially useable life
of 30 years as opposed to forever, and as with all batteries, it would depend
on how it is used.

People need to be particularly careful about exaggerations particularly when
talking about science, because if the public finds out that they exaggerated,
even if it was for completely noble purposes, it diminishes the credibility of
the field, something we saw in particular in the field of climate change.

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mikeknoop
I'm actually pretty curious about what causes battery wear at a fundamental
level. Presumably, traditional LI batteries are not "leaking" Lithium. So why
does their electron-storage-potential decrease with time?

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polyfractal
Here is a good, basic description: <http://gizmodo.com/5681005/giz-explains-
why-batteries-die>

Basically, batteries are chemical reactions. Even though the reaction can be
run in reverse (to recharge), no reaction is 100% efficient. Charging and
discharging corrodes the anode/cathode and alters the structure. This makes
them less capable of accepting ions. The electrolytes oxidize and decompose as
well.

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dhughes
There is a neat trick where you can zap an old lithium-ion battery with an
electric welder, it does something to the old chunky crystals or something
like that.

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axiak
This is with Nicad batteries. DO NOT attempt to zap a lithium ion battery
unless you have a blast shield etc.

~~~
dhughes
Ah yes I see now, my bad. It pays to Google first I guess.

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fredley
I'm getting tired of hearing about breakthroughs in battery tech. We've been
hearing about it for years and still nothing has changed with regards to the
batteries in my actual gadgets.

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DaniFong
It will be interesting to see how they hold up over time. 40,000 cycles at 17
C is only 98 days. Lithium-ion batteries are also rather cycle insensitive,
but die in about two years.

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ars
"17 C" ? 17 times the speed of light?

Reversing your math it seems you are implying 17 cycles per hour? Why in the
world would you charge and discharge a battery 17 times per hour?

I don't even think it's possible to do that - it takes longer than 3.5 minutes
to charge a battery.

~~~
saulrh
I suspect that C is "charge rate", but I'm not sure how that interacts with
battery lifetime. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_charger#Charge_rate>

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buro9
How does this stack up with the other recent development of greater capacity?

[http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2011/09/23/better-
li...](http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2011/09/23/better-li-ion-
batteries/)

It would be good to see these if these techniques can be combined to offer
better lasting batteries by both definitions (more power, lasts longer vs more
cycles, lasts longer).

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mikeknoop
Whitepaper:
[http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v2/n11/full/ncomms1563....](http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v2/n11/full/ncomms1563.html)

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adrianwaj
Besides energy storage, another breakthrough for solar thermal would be better
quality, more efficient and less expensive mirrors.

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anonymous
And I quote: "The researchers have not yet built the revolutionary battery
itself"

