
Ask HN: Is this coding bootcamp reputable? - harveyspec
Aside from online reviews, student twitters, and celebrity endorsements, Holberton School seems sketchy. Should I attend? What worries me:<p>sketchy marketing: (https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;user&#x2F;rizwakhan001) and (https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quora.com&#x2F;profile&#x2F;Alyssa-Ann-25), (https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quora.com&#x2F;profile&#x2F;Arundipta-Debnath-1). I think they pay people to answer questions with the same format: long-winded answer, and a &quot;by the way, I suggest this good school called Holberton School!&quot; I couldn&#x27;t verify these marketers&#x27; identity online.<p>I looked at students&#x27; linkedin and github. I can&#x27;t tell what the code does since no students hosted projects online. Also, it looks like a low percentage of students who started in 2017 actually have tech jobs. I saw some people who ended up with non tech jobs.
======
paulcole
The only thing sketchier than the stuff you linked is the fact that 3
karmaless HN accounts came out of the woodwork almost immediately to defend
the school.

~~~
agalles
Well, it's not like we don't talk to each other, Kiren saw the post and shared
it online. I'm a student, I started in 2018 and I have a job in tech. I'd be
curious to know who else's github he looked at to decide that we don't get
jobs.

------
recov
These existing positive comments who's accounts only have comments on this
post are a little eerie.

~~~
detaro
at least they provide a clear answer that yes, you need to worry about shitty
marketing.

~~~
agalles
I mean, you're not entirely wrong. Their marketing is often misleading. I
don't regret going, but I had a very good friend who attended the school so I
knew a lot more than the average prospective student going in.

------
srinitude
Hi Harvey! My name is Kiren and I'm a student (and also a software engineer)
at Holberton School. Just to be clear, we are NOT a bootcamp - we are a 2-year
software engineering school. As downrightmike has said, any career is a
marathon. There are a lot of students who come in with no prior experience and
do get internships/jobs after the first year, but having had some self-taught
experience creating low-fidelity iOS prototypes of an app I was working on
before attending Holberton, I know that this won't be the case as we expand
into other locations and markets. However, the people with no experience who
have gotten jobs after the first year have consistently worked hard for that
entire first year building on their basics. In addition, most people who do
get jobs after the first year spend months interviewing and focusing on
interview prep (algorithms, data structures, system design, etc.). Our
application process has been awesome so far at accepting people who are
undoubtedly smart and have a lot of grit. Even if we do have students of all
ages who come in and get jobs after their first year, we firmly believe that
it will take 2 years for students coming out of high school to become full-
fledged software engineers. People shouldn't underestimate the work it takes
to become a software engineer, and we certainly don't at Holberton.

If you have any questions, feel free to get in touch with me @srinitude on
every social media platform (including Github:
[https://github.com/srinitude](https://github.com/srinitude)). However, I'm
most active on Twitter
([https://twitter.com/srinitude](https://twitter.com/srinitude)).

------
downrightmike
Hi, If this is going to be your intro into programming, codeschools may not be
a good first step. They may say you don't need any prior experience, but
typically they drop those people out if they aren't doing well so it doesn't
mess with their metrics. Honestly, it may take a bit more time, which can be a
good indicator if you want to work in this field, is to find out what a local
community college is offering for courses and sign up for one programming
class. You'll often find that you have time to learn the material and put it
to use while being in a classroom setting where the class size is smaller and
the instructor can walk you through tripping points. Plus it will be way
cheaper. You'll expand your network there too and maybe get a good reference
from the instructor who has industry contacts. Any career is a marathon, some
people can sprint the distance, most can't. Don't set yourself up for failure
from burnout.

~~~
kaikai
I took a community college class in programming, and also went to a bootcamp.

The college class had 40+ people in the beginning, maybe 30 at the end, 3
months later. We spent _a week_ on basic for-loops. I was one of 5 female
folks in the beginning, and only 3 of us made it to the end. There were some
absolutely intolerable know-it-all teenage boys that made me seriously
reconsider my interest in programming, despite getting over 100% in the class
(through extra credit and curved tests). At the end of the class I had a
commandline game, and had no idea how to do anything but basic programming.

The bootcamp I went to was about the same duration. There were ~35 of us, and
every single one made it to the end. We were explicitly taught how to work
well with each other. At the end of the bootcamp I knew about all kinds of
things from databases to css, and had made several complete projects.

I hear what you're saying about community college being a good way to try it
out, but it's in no way comparable to a full codeschool course. I think
Holberton school is multiple years, too, rather than a standard 3 month
program like the one I went to.

~~~
downrightmike
That is rough. Good job sticking it out.

------
zapita
Holberton is not a bootcamp, it’s a 2-year engineering school. I’ve worked
with alumni and they were excellent entry-level developers, they learn fast
and work great in teams.

Bottom line, it’s a solid school and I recommend it.

I wouldn’t read too much into the tone-deaf positive comments from karmaless
accounts in this thread. I think it’s just Holberton students eager to defend
their school, and creating their first hn account for the occasion. To me it
comes across as clumsy, but sincere.

------
harveyspec
Ok, I just found another quora marketer while researching bootcamps...
[https://www.quora.com/profile/Shaikh-Bilal-
Mehmood](https://www.quora.com/profile/Shaikh-Bilal-Mehmood)

Same answer format, very strange. Now I'm sure they pay people to market
online.

------
itronitron
if there is any doubt, there is no doubt

------
RoMalms10
Hi, harveyspec! My name is Robert and I actually went to Holberton School
(Cohort 4) with no prior coding experience. I also felt like the school was
sketchy when I first heard of it too, because who offers no tuition until you
get a job? After attending, I can guarantee you it's not sketchy.

Honestly, I don't know who those people are that you're linking to. I've never
seen or met anyone at school with those names, so I don't know what that's
about. Every students code is actually on Github, so I'm not sure where you
were looking. We host all of our code on GitHub publicly so anyone can see
them. A lot of the reason that people who started in 2017 don't have tech jobs
(I started in Sept 2017) is because we finished the first 9 months recently
and are in the process of interviewing OR decided to move on to the 2nd year
of the curriculum.

As for my experience: I had a wonderful time. I started in, as I said earlier,
September 2017 with a class size of 35. I ended up graduating the first 9
months at the end of June with a class size of 25. Some of these people went
down a Cohort to Cohort 5, and some of them dropped out due to personal
reasons. No one was actually dropped from my Cohort due to bad performance. I
put in my time and worked roughly 12 hours a day (sometimes shorter, sometimes
longer) during the first 9 months at school. This allowed me to learn
everything, use it, and commit it to knowledge. I then started preparing for
interviews and actively applying during the 3 month break between the first 9
months and the last year. I ended up getting an offer letter before year 2
started, so I took it. Now I have a full-time software engineering job at my
current company!

Benefits: I've met CEO's at big companies like LinkedIn and Docker, and I have
friends in all of the major companies. I've also met the celebrities that you
are referring to, which was nice. I genuinely just find it really exciting to
be here at this time and to have such a huge network after going to Holberton.

I do agree with downrightmike though on 1 case: burnout. Holberton will take
up LITERALLY all your time for 9 months, so be prepared for that if you decide
to attend, but it was totally worth it. It's one giant stamina race, and you
are always doing something. And when there aren't any projects to work on, you
should be going to meetups and networking. That's what allowed me to get where
I am.

Overall, Holberton is amazing (in my opinion) and I realize I am falling into
your "long-winded answer" stereotype, but it's just because I like it so much.
My suggestion: go through the application process and see if you enjoy it. If
you enjoy it, then I think it would be a good fit. Feel free to reach out to
me on Twitter
([https://twitter.com/RobertMalmstein](https://twitter.com/RobertMalmstein))
if you have any more questions.

------
vkalia602
Hi, I totally understand your concern. I moved from Toronto last year for
Holberton school and it was a big and scary move for me since I did not know
much about the school either besides a couple of articles from online
research. I liked their admission process and thats what reassured me to take
a leap of faith. Also, when you are making big decisions about your career
everything looks like a marketing strategy or a gimmick. Thankfully, my bet
for a rewarding career played really well for me. I could not have been
happier going to holberton school. Little about me, I have a bachelors in
Biomedical engineering and I was working in the mechanical engineering
industry and absolutely hating it. I did not like the work and the people and
that's why wanted a switch. During research I was considering community
colleges and masters programs. My friend(Masters in Software engineering,
works at Cruise Automation) suggested that I should go to a bootcamp instead.
They are shorter and teach you on the job skills (unlike colleges and
universities), teach you major skills like networking, resume building,
selling your story, interviewing skills etc. So, I started researching and
came across bootcamps like hackreactor, hackbright, general assembly and
Holberton School. After a lot of deliberation I decided I wanted to pursue
Holberton school. My reasons included 1\. the school does not charge upfront
so they have a vested interest in my future and me getting a job 2\. Having
not much coding experience I wanted to learn from the basics and take some
time to actually have strong foundation and fundamentals. 3\. I did not think
that I could learning programming in like 3-5 months only 4\. I wanted to
learn to think like a software engineer which takes time and effort. 5\. Its
not a bootcamp but a college alternative Needless to say, I went through the
first 9 months of the program and I am extremely happy about how this turned
out. Last month I started my internship at Zume Pizza(a silicon valley
startup) and I use all the skills learned in the program. One thing that I
will like to point out is that Software engineering field requires life long
learning and Holberton taught me how to keep on learning and how to pick up on
new languages fast. Adding on to this I had to briefly attend De Anza college
for my visa status (since I am canadian and cannot stay in US for more than 6
months on a visitor visa), I attended 3 classes- Intro to Bash, Intro to C++
and methodologies, Intro to SQL. Whatever I learned in those classes in a
semester I actually had covered that stuff in like 2-3 weeks at Holberton. In
conclusion, I would not underestimate the work that you have to put into this
program. You have to put your life on hold because it is very intense but I
would also not underestimate my power of learning in this model. You will be
surprised how much you can learn in just 9 months. I completed the 9 months,
studied/interviewed for another 3 months before I got my job. Also, if you're
unsure that you can be a programmer or not, just do the application process
for Holberton because its free and doesn't hurt to just try it out. Coming to
your low percentage question- Holberton does not purge out people from the
school just to maintain their numbers. Sometimes people don't want to work as
an "engineer" but want to learn Full Stack development to complement their
career. We had a guy in my cohort who was a game developer before but feeling
stuck in his career so he did the program, and now works at Facebook as a
Production Engineer(ofcourse his previous experience factors in). UX/UI design
jobs really value people with a knowledge in full stack engineering because
that helps them come up with realistic website designs. The school cannot
control what career trajectory people want to pursue so it has been their own
choice. There are a lot of peripheral career paths that people decide to take
that don't necessarily have the job title "Software Engineer". I really hope I
answered your questions and if you have more feel free to DM me on Twitter. My
Identity- LinkedIn-
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/suekalia/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/suekalia/)
twitter - [https://twitter.com/fallenicicle](https://twitter.com/fallenicicle)

