
Nest introduces their Smoke Detector - zdean
http://nest.com/smoke-co-alarm/life-with-nest-protect/
======
digitalsushi
I performed what is apparently called a 'shoryuken' by a colleague when I
became incensed over the fire alarm screaming out over a fried egg I had
allowed to smoke. Pulling little bits of beige plastic out of my knuckles gave
me a moment of reflection to consider how technology can improve and disrupt
our lives.

For the 20 dollars a regular smoke detector costs, I believe they should
already have a large button you can press on the side that indicates "I
promise everything is fine, I am in the house, alert, and am about to cause an
issue. Please unconditionally do not beep for the next 30 minutes." That would
replace everything good about this wifi gizmo.

~~~
eli
Have you tried pushing the "test" button while it's going off? On mine it's
"test/silence" and works exactly as you describe. This is a very common
feature and in some places is actually _required_ by building code.

It's unsafe to encourage people to pull the battery during a false alarm.

~~~
umsm
The beauty of the nest device is that it doesn't need a button. All you need
to do is wave.

A button requires you grab a chair or broom to activate... and that can be
dangerous. Additionally, those test buttons work for 2 mins before it starts
sounding again.

~~~
beambot
What if I start running around waving... because there's a bloody fire!?
(That's a _really_ bad false positive!)

~~~
ajanuary
If there's a fire to the extent you're continually waving within 8 feet of the
sensor then chances are it's one of the alarm types you can't silence [1]

[1] [http://support.nest.com/article/What-types-of-alarms-can-
I-s...](http://support.nest.com/article/What-types-of-alarms-can-I-silence)

~~~
beambot
I'd rather not take that "chance."

~~~
PCheese
Then you would just disable the "wave" function in the software, requiring a
button press to hush the alarm.

------
ruswick
Nest is very adept at charging large amounts of money for solutions to small
problems. Dealing with the shortcomings of modern smoke detectors is a minor
annoyance at best, and (at least for me) isn't worth anything even remotely
approaching what Nest is charging. Keep in mind that this detector provides no
increase in safety, and if anything is a regression because it postpones
alerting the user to prevent the annoyance of false positives. You are paying
only for convenience.

Adequate smoke detectors can be purchased for $20. Is the minor increase in
convenience really worth shelling out over 6 times that amount, possibly at
the expense of safety?

(EDIT: as others have pointed out, this also serves as a carbon monoxide
detector. The implication from the product page is that this product is
designed to be placed on the ceiling. What could possibly go wrong?)

~~~
WillyF
I was going to agree with you, and then I remembered the night that the smoke
detector in my rental started chirping every few minutes. It was around 3 AM.
We had really high ceilings, so if I stood on a chair, I could almost reach
the smoke detector to disable it. It took a solid 15 minutes of my standing on
my tippy toes trying to figure out what would make the chirping stop. I don't
remember exactly how I did it, but I was mere minutes away from using a
baseball bat.

It turns out it was the smoke detector's "self-destruct" chirp. A new battery
wouldn't even do the job. Had to buy a new smoke detector because the old one
had reached its age limit.

That night if you had asked me to pay $100 so that I could go back to sleep
and not have to worry about THAT CHIRP, I would have whipped out my wallet so
fast.

~~~
ruswick
I understand that conventional smoke detectors can be irritating, but I still
don't see how an experience like that is worth an extra $110. I suppose the
calculus is different for people with far more money, but for most people, I
don't think that smoke detectors pose a large enough annoyance to warrant
buying the Nest.

~~~
Terretta
If you want to know, remotely, if your house is burning down, you can spend
$450 a year for a monitoring service and who knows how much for a system that
dials them in case of alerts, or you can buy Nest.

I see this as priced against monitoring services and systems that phone them.

Compared to those, this is cheap.

~~~
pionar
Well, if your house is burning down, and you're not in it, there's not
anything you can do anyway, and you finding out before you get home doesn't
change anything, so that's not that useful.

~~~
joshstrange
Not true, you can call the fire department.

------
brudgers
Read about deaths in dwelling fires here:
[http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v14i3.pdf](http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v14i3.pdf)

There's more here:
[http://www.usfa.fema.gov/statistics/reports/residential_stru...](http://www.usfa.fema.gov/statistics/reports/residential_structures.shtm)

When owners of commercial buildings disable life safety features, it is not
uncommon for the Fire Marshal to require a fire watch (trained personnel on
site walking around 24 hours a day) until the system is operating correctly.

A residential smoke alarm system without a battery as backup power source is
not operating correctly[1]. A smoke alarm in or near the kitchen is
incorrectly placed if it is producing frequent false alarms[2].

In the time it takes to download and install a smartphone app, one can
probably replace all their smoke detector batteries - NFPA recommends changing
them twice a year when clocks get reset for daylight savings time.

These are first and foremost alarms not detectors because there is no other
annunciator device. Using the device in the way the manufacturer is suggesting
- i.e disabling portions of it's alarm system - is how people die in
dwellings.

Over-riding their fucking primary purpose for the fucking sake of fucking
occupant convenience violates the fucking basic principles of fucking life
safety.

This isn't disruption, it's fucking stupidity.

[1]Outside of retrofit applications, smoke alarms are required by the National
Electrical Code [NFPA 70] to be hardwired and when located in a room used for
sleeping on an arc-fault protected circuit. The battery is for backup.

[2]Though the kitchen is the most common location for a fire in dwellings,
kitchen fires are among the least likely to be fatal because cooking usually
is attended and occurs during waking hours. Many building codes also require a
fire extinguisher to be located in the kitchen for new construction.

~~~
dionidium
I've never seen a residential smoke detector that wasn't primarily (and
solely) powered by a 9-volt battery. Is hardwired power required for new
construction?

~~~
tanzam75
Hardwired smoke alarms have been required on new construction in the US since
the 1989 NEC. It usually takes a few years for cities and states to adopt the
newest NEC revision. However, by now, all states have adopted at least 1989.

Hardwired alarms are also required for major renovations. However, you
basically have to take it down to the studs before this requirement is
triggered.

~~~
brudgers
The requirement for renovations will vary based on locally adopted codes and
their interpretation by building officials. In more affluent areas, the
tendency will be to require upgrades along with relatively minor work. In less
affluent or rural areas, the tendency will be more libertarian - i.e. building
codes and their enforcement are subject to the political process.

------
snoonan
The more interesting thing here is how it interfaces with the thermostat and
makes both better as a result. Turning off the furnace when the carbon
monoxide alarm is triggered is worth it by itself. For those of us living in
snowy climates with children, this is a big deal on its own.

In addition, the improved awareness of when you're home, extra safety
lighting, etc are all interesting as well. I don't see this as a smoke
detector a step towards a smarter, safer, more energy efficient house. Perhaps
the discussion should be about what else it is, not necessarily that takes on
the main role of a extra fancy smoke/CO detector.

~~~
computer
Note that a smoke detector should be on the ceiling, and a carbon monoxide
alarm at ~1.5m high on a wall. Putting it on the ceiling as well could very
well result in late alarms.

(Source: a friend who nearly died from carbon monoxide poisoning)

~~~
caw
Where are sources of carbon monoxide poisoning? The only two off the top of my
head are near the garage and the fireplace. You could augment this system with
2 more plug-in type CO monitors that would put them lower on the wall. For any
other room that doesn't have a CO monitor right now this is just a bonus.

~~~
Ygg2
Machines that use gasoline, tobacco, gas/gasoline/wood heaters.

GP is right, Carbon Monoxide falls to the bottom, so detecting there is of
great essence. Carbon Dioxide floats, so its detectors should be placed up.

NOTE: I meant Smoke detectors.

~~~
deelowe
That's backwards isn't it? CO should be less dense than CO2.

~~~
JshWright
You are correct.

The relevant specific gravities (higher == more dense): Carbon dioxide - CO2
1.5189 Carbon monoxide - CO 0.9667

~~~
Ygg2
True, however there might be other factors.
[http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03364.htm](http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03364.htm)

Perhaps the CO is generally produced mixed with other more heavier gasses and
is colder, thus less conveyant.

I can't find source but I found a pamphlet that mentioned that when in fire
you shouldn't try to crawl on the floor for risk of CO poisoning, or
something.

~~~
JshWright
CO is a product of combustion, and will therefore be hotter than the ambient
air in most cases. The primary reason manufacturers say CO detectors should be
a bit lower on the wall is to avoid false positives (well... not really false,
just alarms for events you don't really need to worry about). A little CO
emission is expected during the normal operation of gas/wood burning
appliances. A CO detector at the ceiling might go off when it detects these
little 'puffs' of CO. In practice, a CO detector should be averaging the level
of a couple minutes, and not worry about short transient peaks (which is what
I suspect the nest detector does).

If you're in a fire, stay low and get out. Source: I'm a firefighter.

------
joshdance
The point of the Nest Protect is not that they are selling a fire alarm. It is
that they are selling peace of mind. You trust it more, because you interact
with it more. It talks to you, you can see it glow green, it lights up when
you walk under it. Sure, you can replace all your batteries really easily. But
do you KNOW that the alarm is going to work? You never interact with it until
your life depends on it. Nest increased your interactions with the device,
thereby increasing your trust in it.

~~~
sliverstorm
I really hate the peace-of-mind marketing gambits. They almost all revolve
around creating a fear you didn't have before, and then proffering to save you
from your newfound fear.

~~~
dmix
Which part do you hate, that humans have the biological flaw of fear/ego being
their greatest motivator or that we live in a market economy that feeds into
it?

"Predictably Irrational" is a brilliant book about this subject. Consumers do
_not_ buy things rationally. And the answer is not simply exploitation by
marketing companies (although that is a big part of the narrative).

[http://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Revised-
Expande...](http://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Revised-Expanded-
ebook/dp/B002C949KE/)

~~~
sliverstorm
_that we live in a market economy that feeds into it_

------
joosters
Hmm, perhaps Nest should update their terms of service? This clause in
particular should make someone think twice about buying a safety device from
them:

(c) Reliability of Notifications. You acknowledge that the Services, including
remote access and mobile notifications, are not intended to be 100% reliable
and 100% available. We cannot and do not guarantee that you will receive
notifications in any given time or at all. YOU AGREE THAT YOU WILL NOT RELY ON
THE SERVICES FOR ANY LIFE SAFETY OR CRITICAL PURPOSES. MOBILE NOTIFICATIONS
REGARDING THE STATUS AND ALARMS ON YOUR NEST PRODUCTS ARE PROVIDED FOR
INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY – THEY ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR A THIRD-PARTY
MONITORED EMERGENCY NOTIFICATION SYSTEM.

Worth repeating:

"YOU AGREE THAT YOU WILL NOT RELY ON THE SERVICES FOR ANY LIFE SAFETY OR
CRITICAL PURPOSES"

Don't buy a safety device from a company that claims this!

~~~
kyrra
Find a household safety device (smoke alarms and such) that doesn't have
similar warning. If they did guarantee it worked 100% of the time and it
malfunctioned for whatever reason, they would be opening themselves to a
lawsuit.

~~~
frenchy
I don't know what it's like in the US, but in Canada, if you try to sell a
safety device and put in your TOS that the device should not be guaranteed to
provide any safety (even when used properly), the courts will throw out your
TOS.

You can't sell a safety product and then pretend it doesn't do anything.

------
DanBC
I'm interested in the number of people in this thread who have little idea
about how their smoke detectors work - where to put the batteries or what the
flashing LED means, for example.

Smoke detectors are a safety critical device which save many lives each year.

It's fucking stupid to not know where these are, and how to keep them
serviced. Recommendations are that you test smoke detectors _each week_. 9v
batteries are, for this purpose, dirt cheap. Change all of them at the same
time. Or buy a more expensive detector with a 10 year battery. (Or buy the
Nest device.)

[http://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/smoke-
alarms](http://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/smoke-alarms)

* Once a week test each alarm by pressing the test button till the alarm sounds.

* Once a year change the battery (unless it’s a ten-year alarm).

* Twice a year open the case and gently vacuum the inside using the soft-brush attachment to remove dust from the sensors. If it doesn’t open, vacuum through the holes.

* After 10 years it’s best to get a whole new alarm.

If you're living in an apartment building you can get fire alarms which tell
you the zone an alarm is triggering in, which tells you what detector is
having a problem with its battery.

Some people are comparing the Nest device with regular smoke detectors. That's
gently misleading because the Nest alarms can link. That's nothing new, plenty
of alarms link, but they are all more expensive than just a regular alarm.

~~~
Havoc
>Smoke detectors are a safety critical device which save many lives each year.

From what I can tell only in places with wooden buildings though. e.g. I don't
know of a single house that burned down. Not one in my entire life. Its just a
non-issue here (South Africa).

The closest I can think of is a house that was leveled by an exploding gas
cylinder. (Attempting to melt gold on a gas flame in backyard shop...)

~~~
aestra
You have nothing that is flammable in your house? What about electric fires?
What if your computer caught fire in the middle of the night?

I grew up in a brick building. We had two house fires there when I was growing
up, though neither in my apartment. Sure the house didn't burn down and they
were pretty self contained, but those were still potentially deadly
situations. Luckily all the tenants escaped.

The most common way to die in a house fire anyway isn't by burning, its by
smoke inhalation. If there is a fire in the next room billowing smoke, you
aren't likely to wake up and you're going to inhale all that smoke.

~~~
Havoc
>You have nothing that is flammable in your house?

Curtains I guess. And wooden furniture. The only real hazard is the sofa and
thats a good 1.5 meters away from anything that could cause a flame.

>What about electric fires?

Nope. Our electrical codes have always been light years ahead of everyone else
& other places are still trying to catch up. e.g. SA required ELCBs in 1954.
UK in 2008. USA...hopefully soon.

We also don't get tornadoes, floods, earthquakes or blizzard. Well actually we
do have earthquakes but you'd need to pay attention to notice.

The only real danger in terms of fire is lightning. For that the at risk
places have these massive free standing lightning spikes (
[http://i.imgur.com/Sv0pdre.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/Sv0pdre.jpg) ). They're
like 30m or something so if the calculations are right then its +-
bulletproof. Finding a pic on google was quite a mission, so I'm actually
kinda curious now how other countries solve the lightning problem.

>What if your computer caught fire in the middle of the night?

Its on an aluminium stand, which in turn is on ceramic tiles. I'd imagine the
ELCB would trip long before it even caused a flame though.

Lots of things are wrong with South Africa (Crime, HIV, road deaths etc), but
they nailed the electrical codes & fire dangers 50 years ago.

------
jaredstenquist
The future of these is interesting to consider. After a software update...

\- Stream music across the house \- House-wide doorbell tone (after they sell
you a $99 doorbell kit) \- Hook up to security system \- Remotely audio
monitor your home (babysitter, cheating wife/husband) \- Siri type
functionality. I can wake up and say "Weather" in my bedroom. \- Alarm clock

At this price point they won't be popular enough to really ignite further
innovation of the devices though.

------
jmharvey
Poorly designed smoke detectors are a real problem. They can be overly
sensitive to some kinds of fire and completely miss out on other kinds. Tests
are extremely irritating and difficult to perform, so people don't perform the
tests. Low battery warnings are just irritating enough to let you know there's
a problem, but not consistent enough to let you know where the problem is. (I
once replaced every battery in every smoke detector in the house, twice in a
week, before I finally figured out that the low battery chirp was coming from
a long-forgotten CO detector behind the refrigerator.) And nuisance alarms can
be very difficult to dismiss, so people disable the alarm entirely, and then
have even more difficulty getting it back in place. These are real problems.

The Nest smoke detector ($129) seems to solve these problems. The thing is, if
you've got these problems, you've probably spent less than $20 on smoke alarms
in the last decade, either living with whatever came with your
house/apartment, or buying the cheapest ($5-10) smoke detectors on the market.
User-friendly smoke alarms are available for about $30, and they solve most of
the same problems the Nest solves. They're not as slick, or network connected,
but they'll do the job.

------
zippergz
I absolutely love my Nest thermostats, and I think they were worth every
penny. I'd buy them again in a heart beat. So I have faith that this will also
be a great product. But the problem is that my house needs two thermostats,
but 12 smoke alarms. If I only needed 2 or 3 of these, I might be tempted. But
I can't see spending over $1500 on replacing my smoke alarms. I suppose maybe
they don't _all_ need to be replaced, but if it doesn't interoperate with my
other hard-wired smoke alarms, it could actually be a net decrease in safety
(if the non-Nest alarms start going off and the Nests don't).

~~~
dkasper
Sounds like a great idea for an add-on product would be cheap additional
detectors for your other rooms

~~~
zippergz
Yes. Ever since I got the thermostats, I've wanted add-on sensors for other
rooms. The placement of the thermostats in my house is not great for setting
the temperature in the rooms I actually care about, so it would be great to
have additional small sensors in the primary living areas. It seems like they
could make it an all-in-one device -- a Nest extension that works with both
the thermostats and the smoke alarms.

------
josefresco
Would like to see a model more like Ninja Blocks (base device with inexpensive
remote sensors) then the idea of buying several more expensive components.

Would have been ground-breaking if the Nest smoke detector was a $20 or $40
networked addon to the original Nest thermostat.

~~~
schappim
This smoke alarm is based on Ninja Blocks: [http://bop.io](http://bop.io)

------
yalogin
Its probably just me but both of Nest's products are not necessities. I mean
they are nice to look at but I don't care much about the problem they solve
for me to go and switch. And they are usually twice the price of a regular one
so there is that.

~~~
berberous
This one is more like 4x the price, minimum. Looks great though.

~~~
ruswick
More like 6x to 7x the price. The precedent for detectors seems to be $20.
Local fire departments also routinely hand them out for free.

------
twoodfin
I wonder what the split on Nest thermostat sales is between new
construction/refurb builder/contractor installations vs. "end user". Whatever
it is, I think the smoke detector will be more skewed towards the former.

$129 is a lot for a consumer, especially without all the immediately tangible
and potentially cost-saving benefits of the thermostat. But for a developer
selling a condo, being able to advertise "Nest fixtures throughout" might be
worth $1000.

I love my pair of Nest thermostats, but don't feel motivated to buy this.

~~~
nhebb
The link text says "Smoke Detector", but I only found "Smoke Alarm" on the
Nest page. I used to work for a smoke detector manufacturer. It's been over
10+ years, but there was a clear delineation between home "smoke alarms" and
commercial "smoke detectors". Detectors had central monitoring and usually
were linked to an outside service. Alarms were standalone and sold to
consumers.

One thing that's interesting is that the video shows it uses photoelectric
smoke detection. Most home systems use ionic detection, which is better for
large particulates. When these sound, either the house is already on fire or
you burnt the steak. Photoelectric detectors are better for detecting small
particulates - the smoke before the fire - and they are less prone to false
alarms.

~~~
tanzam75
> _Most home systems use ionic detection, which is better for large
> particulates. ... Photoelectric detectors are better for detecting small
> particulates - the smoke before the fire - and they are less prone to false
> alarms._

Other way around. Ionization detectors are more sensitive to small particles,
while photoelectric detectors are more sensitive to large particles.

Large fires tend to burn "cleanly," producing smoke particles that are not too
visible. While smoldering fires tend to produce lots of visible smoke -- the
type that a photoelectric detector will identify.

[https://www.firemarshals.org/rfsi/smokealarmfacts.html](https://www.firemarshals.org/rfsi/smokealarmfacts.html)

~~~
nhebb
> Other way around.

[Slaps forehead.] I got the fire type / particle size reversed. The sad thing
is I actually took the fire marshal's exam on the subject. But I guess, like
in college, the moment I walked out of the exam room my mind became a clean
slate.

------
bluedevil2k
I just tore one off my ceiling and threw it into the garage at 3am just last
week. I was excited about this one until I saw the price. $129! Yikes! I got a
few lithium battery detectors at Home Depot for $20 that are supposed to last
for 10 years.

~~~
thrownaway2424
I have a box full of shards of smoke detectors that I have ripped off the
ceiling and hurled down the stairs because they went off while I was cooking,
or making tea, or sneezing nearby. The nest thermostat is fucking stupid, but
this smoke detector appears to be a genuine improvement. I would pay twice
this price if it works.

~~~
dionidium
_The nest thermostat is fucking stupid_

Why do you think this? It's been a huge win for me. I _routinely_ forget to
adjust my thermostat when I leave the house, even sometimes on out-of-town
trips. You could argue that I'm just a dumb idiot -- OK, that's fine -- but
this hasn't been a problem since I got a Nest. Add in the other (relatively
minor) energy conservation features and the savings have been pretty big.

------
Fishrock123
I found this line in The Verge's interview with Tony Fadell (Nest's CEO):

"And if the Protect senses a carbon monoxide problem, it’ll instruct the
thermostat to shut off your furnace."

That is of utmost importance. That alone makes it by orders of magnitude the
safest carbon monoxide detector made. The integration is going to make all the
difference.

I want my future home to be setup with this stuff.

My only disappointment: It does not report back temperature to the Nest
thermostat.

~~~
ceejayoz
> My only disappointment: It does not report back temperature to the Nest
> thermostat.

Yet. I'd suspect this'll come eventually.

------
Edvik
This will find its biggest market (I think) in NYC apartments - you only need
1 usually, and tiny unventilated kitchens are a near guarantee to send off an
alarm.

I lived in an apartment where we essentially had a broom handle hanging next
to the alarm because it was inevitable, and during Sandy blackout the thing
constantly chirped because its landline was disconnected. Not a good
experience.

------
neals
I love these new takes on old devices, however, my five $15 smoke, heat and
co2 detectors from different brands have been proven and tested over time... I
wouldn't want to be the one that finds the first bugs in this new nest smoke
detector.

~~~
rplnt
Exactly.

And even if it's tested well I really don't see why I would want to pay
upwards of $100 for a smoke/co detector, when I can get them for about $10.
It's a device you buy and don't want to use, ever. I'd rather spend the money
on routine checks on possible CO sources (oven, heater, ...).

------
kybernetyk
Hmm, I don't know. I like my smoke detectors to be as simple as possible.

Complex tech that might cause some kind of hang and failure in critical
devices gives me a bad feeling.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Normally I'd agree, but the current crop of devices demonstrably have exactly
that problem - they get disabled because of chronic false-positives. So some
improvement/complexity is called for.

~~~
bitdestroyer
I would also agree about limiting the complexity, but I do think there's
something to be said for the benefits of having the additional technologies
the Protect offers, coupled with the ability for the Nest team to update them
([1]) as improvements are found.

It seems to me that as usage increases, the Nest team can use that data to
come up with additional features that could incrementally increase the safety
of your home over time, however small that increase might be. The obvious
caveat being that the updates need to be safe as well, but I think the long
tail of a product like this could be increased safety over time, which to me
sounds attractive.

Not to mention the benefits this adds if you already use a Nest. We have two
in our home and the ability for it to know more about the temperature in
different rooms is something I've wanted since we installed them.

[1] [http://support.nest.com/article/Do-I-need-Wi-Fi-to-
install-a...](http://support.nest.com/article/Do-I-need-Wi-Fi-to-install-and-
use-my-Nest-Protect)

------
danpalmer
By law my house requires 3 (that I can remember) smoke alarms. $390 to use
Nest Protects instead is far too far above the price of convenience, even $130
is about $100 more than I think a good smoke detector should cost.

Nest's marketing seems to target a wider range of people than that which I
think would be interested in their products. I've worked in an Apple reseller,
I've seen how much disposable income most people have, and Nest are massively
over-targeting their products. These are for the guy who used to buy 2 iPods,
in case one broke.

~~~
akgoel
My city requires a smoke alarm both outside and inside each bedroom. For my 5
bedroom house, that's over $1000. But the fact that I've had to wake up 3
times in 3 years in the middle of the night to disconnect all 5 "exterior"
alarms to clear the "carbon monoxide" (low battery) noise makes it kind of
worth it...

~~~
aestra
I don't get it. Your carbon dioxide alarm and low battery alarm are the same?
Your smoke detectors eat one battery a year?

Sounds like you have awful smoke detectors.

They sell cheaper ones that have 10 year batteries.

------
jcoleh
I think (just like the thermostat). This is a trojan horse. Nest trying to get
a sensors into your home. Specifically presence sensor in every single room of
the house. This will be their foundation for a vastly improved home control
UI. They will take the lessons they learned with the learning thermostat
temperature control and use that for the rest of your home, with the input
being location, number of people, etc...

At least that is what I would do if I were Nest :-)

------
ubercore
I like my Nest thermostat, but I'm more inclined to add smoke detectors from
Simplisafe to my security system. They're cheaper, and offer more of an
insurance discount because they report to a central monitoring station.

I would've liked to see Nest go more towards home automation, or work with
window AC manufacturers to integrate Nest controls on their boxes. I'm not too
keen on Nest branded smoke detectors.

------
sneak
Why is this not a dual-band wifi repeater (and maybe even bluetooth audio
device, as well)?

I was really hoping that all the stuff on the ceiling would take advantage of
the prime physical position there once it all became smarter. As it stands, I
love what Nest is doing but I'm pretty underwhelmed by this. The motion sensor
integration with the thermostat is a good start.

~~~
ashergm
The wifi repeater feature would be cool but I think it'd probably be a battery
drain on the non-wired versions.

~~~
r00fus
So they should only offer it on the wired ones. Would be quite a good sell,
actually (probably best left as an unsupported "hack" so Nest doesn't have to
provide support for failed wifi topologies).

~~~
ashergm
I agree it probably should be left as an unsupported hack since it would be a
support nightmare.

After thinking about it a bit I think that it'll never actually happen. It's a
weird feature combination that would confuse non-geek consumers.

Who knows maybe Nest would want to reserve that kind of thing for another
shiny new product to hang on your wall and could price at 150+

------
stigt
Wow, after my experience with Nest thermostat, there's no way I'd risk having
a Nest Smoke Detector. I had Nest Thermostat for 3 months. Initially I loved
it, but then it kept "think" I was gone when sleeping on the 3rd floor wake to
a freezing house. Ok, minor annoyance, disable that feature. Then after a long
business trip I came home late to again find a freezing cool house, but this
time the Nest had bricked itself. Rest didn't help, support didn't help. So
since there is no manual override, I had to uninstall it and reinstall the 20
year old "programmable" thermostat that actually worked. Since I had to
uninstall it I told Nest they could have their brick back and refund me. Now
they want me to take that risk with a smoke alarm bricking itself??? Crazy.

------
lnanek2
Pretty cute, waving at the alarm to shut it up, which is what people often do
anyway to try to get smoke from cookie away from it. Would have been more fun
to just be able to yell shut up at it, though. :) Although I guess you have a
user training requirement for that.

------
nathan_long
Note for the paranoid: this is a multi-sensor, including motion, which has
wifi and can control your heater.

Now the spooks can watch you in your house! :)

~~~
MartinCron
That's amateur hour paranoia. They can crank up the thermostat to _roast you
alive_ and then turn off the heater if a fire breaks out.

------
yitchelle
This smoke alarm looks very complex, and the amount of risk increases with the
level complexity. For such a complex product, I would want to know some
insights to the following.

What safety standards have been applied to the software development and
product development?

Does it need wifi to work correctly?

Can you connect it to the mains power?

How secure is the wifi connection? ie Can it be hacked for malicious purposes?

etc.....

For something so critical to a life and death situation, I want something to
function as simple as possible.

~~~
codereflection
Security of the wifi device and it's connection to the internet.. not enough
people are talking about this.

So many "internet enabled" devices out there are poor on security. I would
love to hear from the people behind Nest on how they plan to take on internet
attacks.

~~~
macleanjr
Some of Google's security team has helped to stiffen the safeguards[1]

[1] [http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/nest-smoke-
detector/al...](http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/nest-smoke-
detector/all/)

~~~
blibble
the fact that's even possible worries me.

1 billion transistors and 40 million lines of code in my smoke detector.

hurrah, the smoke detector crashed again!

------
DigitalSea
I don't care what anyone else says, this is a genius idea. I cannot believe
that nobody has ever thought of creating a smart smoke alarm like this before.
I think many of us have been guilty of taking out our smoke alarm batteries
when it goes off because you like your steaks well-done or burnt your toast
because you had to pee. And I know a few people guilty of removing the
batteries from smoke detectors because they're chirping that the battery needs
to be replaced and can't be bothered to replace it, which is plain stupid and
dangerous.

The one issue with smoke detectors that Nest solves is not the annoyance of it
going off during dinner, it's the annoyance of when you have multiple smoke
detectors in close proximity and you can hear one of them chirping randomly
that its battery needs replacing, but you don't know which one it is. You
stand around like an idiot waiting for it to chirp again, but it's so random
you get frustrated waiting and give up. The colour coding aspect of this
product alone is something even generic cheap smoke detectors should integrate
to better show when batteries need replacing. I think it would save lives.

------
jack-r-abbit
I bought 2 Nest thermostats and have been happy with them. The $500 price for
the pair was a bit steep but it was not insane. This looks nice too and at
$130 for one it does not sound that bad... at first. But then as I count off
all the units I need to replace in my house... I get to 12. I have 12 freakin'
smoke alarms in my house. I don't think I'll be dropping $1600 to upgrade my
house with Nest Protect. :/

------
nfoz
I loved the idea of caring about design and making expensive, excellent
versions of simple household products.

But I think they really jumped the shark with this. I reeeeally don't like my
smoke detector having a million apps in it, and needing an app to connect to
it. If it is at all connected to the Internet (and not just a closed-loop
system), that's pretty scary to me unless the security model is absolutely
sound.

~~~
dykesa
Are you married? If so I'm surprised if you've never gotten the "OMG I THINK I
LEFT MY HAIR STRAIGHTENER ON AND I'M SURE THE HOUSE IS BURNING DOWN. Can you
go check?" phone call. (Which, incidentally, has resulted in several hours of
lost time at work but no still no sighting of the wild forgotten-plugged-in-
hair-straightener)

~~~
jaynos
Nest needs to get into the curling/straightening iron business.

------
brandon272
I love my Nest thermostat but don't feel the need to buy this product.
Speaking for myself, my smoke detector and I already have a great
relationship. It stays out of the way and blares its siren when it thinks my
house is in danger. Those of us in newer homes often have hardwired detectors
that rarely require battery replacement. And I don't want or need yet another
app that simply tells me that my house isn't on fire.

I think the disappointing part about this product is that I feel like on a
priority list of classic household items that Nest would be wise to reinvent,
the home smoke detector isn't high on my list. One thing I'd love for them to
create and sell to me is a build-your-own home alarm system that uses my home
internet connection as a means to connect to a monitoring center and provides
a good mobile app experience. I've been shopping for an alarm for a while and
all of the current products out there are terrible and archaic compared to
what a company like Nest could provide.

------
OhHeyItsE
What problem does this solve? For the 5 times a year the smoke alarm goes off
because I'm burning something in the kitchen, I have to get a chair to push
the 'hush' button?

"Wave to disable"??? Are you kidding me??? Sorry - anything could accidentally
disable a life-saving device is pretty darn stupid. Someone, somewhere, will
die because of this.

~~~
jck
Notice how the light is a different color for different intensities of heat?
I'm sure wave to disable won't work when there is a lot of smoke.

~~~
ajanuary
Correct [http://support.nest.com/article/What-types-of-alarms-can-
I-s...](http://support.nest.com/article/What-types-of-alarms-can-I-silence)

------
voqk
I've developed something called the smoke detector condom. It is essentially a
zip-lock bag with a string tied to it. All you have to do is place the zip-
lock over the detector and it prevents bacon in the morning from setting off
the alarm. Then the emergency release string can be pulled on unannounced
landlord visits.

------
imissmyjuno
> No more frantically swinging towels at the smoke alarm to quiet it down. If
> there’s a nuisance alarm, just stand under Nest Protect and wave your arm to
> hush the alert. As you wave, your hand should be 2-8 feet away from the
> alarm.

What happens if one of my cats is sitting under it and scratching the floor or
playing with a toy..

~~~
svachalek
It says children and pets are too low to disable it.

------
mempko
Right, because people who don't have smoke alarms in their house don't have
them because they are annoying. I suspect most of these people can't afford
them, or are low on their "buy" list for money reasons. Not sure how an
expensive smoke alarm will solve that problem....

~~~
fnimick
Actually we have 0 smoke alarms in our house exactly because they are so
annoying. On the day we moved in, they went off 6 times while we were making
dinner. They were all off the ceiling later that evening.

------
chiph
I don't have any iOS or Android devices - does it have a built-in web server
so I can configure it?

~~~
eyepulp
I'm guessing that like the Nest thermostat they have an external web site
(nest.com) you can register the device with, and then perform config via that
site.

I wonder if anyone's sniffed their Nest's traffic to see if it's encrypted?

------
rsync
Here's a blurb from the blog-post announcement:

"It senses carbon monoxide and connects to your Nest Thermostat through your
Nest Account. So it can automatically shut down the furnace, a possible source
of CO poisoning, when the carbon monoxide alarm goes off."

so ... what if your Internet connection is down ?

Further, even if it isn't, why[1] would you ever want your thermostats and/or
fire alarms talking to some third-party, for-profit company _and_ existing on
public IP space ?

Do I misunderstand how this works ? I hate typical smoke alarms with a
passion, but I'm not replacing them with something that can be DoS'd or
requires Internet to function properly...

[1] Other than blind, stupid pursuit of new and shiny

~~~
ZoFreX
It doesn't require internet to function properly - it still works as a smoke
and CO alarm without internet. It can't shut down your boiler for you without
internet - like most other CO detectors.

~~~
rsync
There is no reason that (insert device X here) cannot shut down your (insert
other device Y here) while disconnected from the Internet.

They lost me at "... with your nest login ..."

------
ymmv53
The thing that draws me to Nest is not the product value but the design. They
are beautiful, well thought out products. I probably won't buy a Nest Protect,
as my pain point isn't that high, but it's sexy as hell.

------
mwsherman
The motion detector is a trojan horse for introducing other functionality. It
could probably serve as a general alarm system as well, with a software
update.

What are some other apps that can come from an always-on wifi-enabled set of
sensors?

------
cookingrobot
I love this. My one question is why they chose white and black as the colors.

This is obviously a premium product, and if you look in interior design
magazines it's clear that people prefer metal fixtures for their lights /
switches / fans. Stainless steel, bronze and brass seem by far the most
popular choice for high end lighting, and it seems like this should match that
theme.

White could "disappear" better into the ceiling, but with their product design
of having a light flash whenever the room lights are turned off, it seems like
they want to be a noticed/appreciated part of the room design.

------
dylandrop
When I hear arguments like "I'd pay one hundred extra dollars just to not hear
that chirp at 6AM", I think we all know who the target audience for this
product is. The average joe doesn't have $120 per smoke detector to casually
shell out. It would be nice if the Internet of Things movement started moving
toward things that everyone can enjoy, rather than just making toys for rich
startup guys. (Grand Street, I'm looking at you.)

------
jqueryin
While this is very cool, I'd like to hear more in regards to how multiple Nest
thermostats can work together. Ideally there would be one expensive unit and
several other attachable units, much like how you can extend Wifi range. The
carbon monoxide detector would make for a great addon unit, a "plugin" of the
master smoke detector unit.

------
dhughes
There are fire alarms and smoke alarms also there are photoelectric and
ionization types. Both are used for different purposes.

------
snicklepuff
Jesus, $150!? For a smoke detector!? How hard is it to hit the little "mute"
button on the cheap one you already have?

------
mrbill
Love my Nest, have had it since they were first available.

Took a smoke detector off the wall with a crowbar a few months ago because it
was 3am, I couldn't sleep because of the damned beeping, and I didn't have any
spare batteries nor the desire to find a chair or ladder to stand on. Replaced
it the next day, but at least I got back to sleep.

------
sgustard
"CO detectors can be placed near the ceiling or near the floor because CO is
very close to the same density as air" per
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_detector](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_detector)

------
evan_
They should license that scene from "Friends" where Phoebe's fire alarm goes
off and she can't get it to stop:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tkY08MhfoU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tkY08MhfoU)

------
scrrr
I don't want to connect to my appliances using a phone. I also don't need a
high-tech smoke detector. I have them in all rooms, they work, no false
alarms. If I need light, I turn on the light.

A device for gadget nerds. Unnecessary for the rest of the world.

------
kondro
Anyone complaining about the price of a $120 smoke detector aren't the target
market. I would buy these in a heartbeat if I could (I'm in AU). The pricing
is irrelevant for even the small amount of extra life quality this product
affords.

------
davebobak
I live alone. I stress out about something happening when I am not at home.
Yes, I will be safe if there is a fire when I am gone, but I would love to
know if my house is about to burn down. This will help alleviate some of that
stress.

------
marincounty
Good invention, but too pricey. His thermostat is great, but I need three for
my house. No I don't have a huge house, but I designed the hydronic system
well. Each part of the house can have it's own temperature.

------
bernatfp
Another impressive product. And a clear demonstration that they want to be
something more than a thermostat manufacturer. They are indeed becoming the
Apple of household devices.

------
lazyant
I'd take a simpler version (no wifi/light/remote furnace control/voice, just
no false positives like from shower's steam) for half the price

------
robmcm
Looks great, although I did pick up a basic one for about £2 the other day.

However I would love to get one, along with the thermostat, should they ever
come to the UK.

~~~
boristhespider
Looks like it is coming to the UK: [http://nest.com/uk/](http://nest.com/uk/)
(although not the thermostat yet)

~~~
robmcm
Yeah not sure what's holding them up a thermostat in the UK is much simpler as
normally it's just heating you turn on or off.

~~~
twoodfin
I imagine they need time to build up the necessary experience to support the
product well. Nest's support, the one time I had to call them, was
outrageously good. Within about 10 minutes the engineer had figured out
exactly what was wrong with my wiring setup, and, more or less blind, walked
me through the discovery and installation of a common wire.

------
tomasien
Looking over at my smoke detector that I took down 3 weeks ago and disabled
because it was beeping, let's just say I agree with this video.

------
SilasX
Show of hands: who else (this being HN and all) thought this was going to be a
software package related to deployment smoke tests?

------
nodata
Love my smoke alarm?

Always know? From everywhere?

See what's invisible?

I'm beginning to have enough of this sickly sweet language, it turns me off
looking at the product.

------
schappim
It seems pretty similar to the Bop smoke alarm I made for a hackathon. See:
[http://bop.io](http://bop.io)

Cheers,

Marcus

------
dykesa
I think it just needs one more feature: Stream and play music. Then it would
be totally worth it.

------
EvanL
Damn physical product startups are getting REALLY good at landing pages these
days.

------
swinglock
Who has that much trouble with the smoke detector?

~~~
svachalek
I confess that in my last house they were always going off, not just because I
burnt the toast but just because I _made_ some toast. Or because I took a
shower. Or lit a candle. I moved them several times but could never find a
spot that was simultaneously far enough away from the toaster, stove, shower,
microwave, dinner table, grill, and fireplace. Silencing them required getting
a ladder and only lasted a few minutes, never enough to prevent a second
activation.

Because they were going off all the time the batteries went out in months, and
they would start chirping loudly at random intervals around 3 a.m. It would
wake you up then you couldn't figure out which one it was and once you decided
it was a fluke and went back to sleep it would do it again.

I did bad things to those smoke alarms.

In retrospect maybe they were just a bad batch and needed to be replaced but
historically I hadn't experienced much better. I've moved since then and
haven't had trouble with the new ones yet, knock on wood.

------
jaynate
This web site is crashing safari on iOS.

------
jdalgetty
pre-ordered :)

------
jacal
That wasn't the price point you were supposed to hit.

