
Why Van Halen had brown M&Ms contractually removed - pitdesi
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp
======
CoffeeDregs
NOTE: to those who're reading the comments here instead of RTFA [because
you're like I am...], you should RTFA.

I first heard this story about 3 months ago and was blown away [because
everyone knew that Van Halen were prima donas, right?!]. That Van Halen plays
IROC-Z rock doesn't mean they _aren't_ big time business people. There are
certainly outliers, but big time business people are big time business people
without regard to the business and that's a lesson most of us need.

EDIT: I attended an alternative educational conference where the theme was
"Taking Yourself Seriously". Naturally, I sat thinking "I write computer
programs! I'm a serious man!". Learning about Van Halen's idiotic-but-wait-oh-
my-god-that's-super-insightful contract drives home the point that I might not
be taking myself seriously enough... There's always room to improve.

EDIT: to those who're pointing out that this is a re-hash, this is an
important re-hash. Yes, it was discussed two years ago, but it bears
repeating. Even an atheist, such as myself, appreciates hearing the 10
Commandments reasonably frequently.

------
praeclarum
Reminds me of the Alice Cooper scene from Wayne's World.

I was raised to believe that these hedonistic punks knew only sex, drugs, and
rock and roll. Learning that they were in fact professionals who intimately
knew their craft (and, yeah, also liked to have fun) is a blessing of age.

~~~
pyre
There were plenty that were just hedonistic punks. The lesson is that you
can't just apply a blanket label to people.

~~~
dredmorbius
The other lesson is that once you apply a blanket label to people, it cannot
be removed under penalty of law.

------
shaggyfrog
Repeat from about two years ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=743860>

I suspect it's not the first time. It's a great story.

~~~
oasisbob
The current submission is also just a heavily plagiarized rehashing of that
part of David Lee Roth's autobiography, as (properly) quoted by Snopes.

~~~
robtoo
It's not plagiarism if it's attributed.

(edit: looks like the submission url was edited. I guess it wasn't snopes
earlier.)

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a1k0n
Iggy Pop's concert rider appeared on the Smoking Gun several years ago, and
it's a very amusing read -- they were clearly sick of venues screwing things
up as well by not reading carefully. It's only 18 pages:
<http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/lust-laughs>

~~~
cromulent
That was very good. Thank you. I ended up using this one as the paging on
Smoking Gun was annoying:

<http://josgrain.com/StoogesRiders.pdf>

------
quinndupont
Back in 2009 This American Life covered the issue with aplomb.
[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/386/f...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/386/fine-print)

------
ojilles
Makes me think of the trick we used a large website I used to work for: we'd
have everybody and their mother copy our T&S because that was easier that
writing it themselves. So we added a 2 very uncommon spelling mistakes into it
on purpose. After that just a simple google Alert on those keywords would tell
us immediately when someone copied our T&S.

Adding something weird/uncommon can make something easily measurable (as
showcased in both my example as the article).

~~~
joezydeco
Map makers do it too:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_streets>

~~~
pavel_lishin
As well as dictionaries: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquivalience>

I wonder what other companies that make a living by selling data sets do this
sort of thing?

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cdcarter
Nowadays, something like this can also be seen as somewhat insulting to a
venue. We spend hours pouring over contract riders to make sure we meet the
specifications, and many more hours pricing out the materials and labor
necessary for an event. If the lead singer of the band is putting M&M clauses
into riders, instead of the touring production manager dealing with the venue
TD directly, there's already something wrong with the negotiations.

~~~
blantonl
It might be insulting to your venue, but other venues aren't as detailed as
yours. And this process (or variation of) could still today provide an initial
indicator that the venue is cutting corners and not following the details.

~~~
cdcarter
At the same time, you know that someone (the venue, the promoter, our the tour
manager) is cutting corners when actual insightful communication isn't
happening between all parties. Just as the tour will send a contract to the
venue, the venue sends it's contract and technical specifications to the tour.
The tone and types of communication with a venue or tour before they even get
two cities away is just as good an indicator towards the likelihood of
problems.

Nothing, not even brown M&Ms can make it so all of a sudden we don't need to
communicate through the proper channels and follow procedures.

~~~
jfoutz
I get it, you're a professional. 30 years ago, you know when the IBM PC was
introduced, the variation of quality of venues was likely higher. Big name,
technical shows simply did not go to smaller venues, because they would fuck
up.

It's not intended to be an attack on you. It's not an attack on your
profession. It highlights how a professional organization can raise the
quality of everyone they interact with. Like it or not, wal-mart makes its
suppliers better. Maybe it takes talking, cajoling or even dirty tricks, but
the key idea is you can make your suppliers better. Don't be afraid to be very
sneaky in your thinking to get what you need from your suppliers.

------
mturmon
Down for me, but

[http://web.archive.org/web/20080305234616/http://jimcofer.co...](http://web.archive.org/web/20080305234616/http://jimcofer.com/personal/?p=621)

worked

~~~
bfung
or google cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fF_iKzP...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fF_iKzPOgaQJ:jimcofer.com/personal/%3Fp%3D621+van+halen+site:jimcofer.com/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com)

------
zeteo
The counter-argument is, of course, that someone who knows they can't fulfill
all contractual clauses will try to check off the easy ones only - including
the risible demand that M&Ms be sorted. The argument in the article is simply
invalid, because it can be used to justify everything - the more unreasonable,
the better!

Instead of such a ridiculous demand, they could have just picked a couple of
random, but useful clauses from the contract (like the number of sockets) and
checked those instead. Yes, it would have taken a couple of extra minutes, but
certainly a huge concert is worth that.

~~~
latch
You might be being downvoted because:

Even if you are right (that they might just implement the easy ones), you
don't actually lose anything by adding the clause. At worse case, you're as
bad off as if you didn't have it. Not exactly a "counter-argument" since you
don't actually lose anything.

As for why not just pick something else...It's hard to tell without the full
list...how do you test that something can hold 600lbs? Even if there is
something relatively easy, say, that sockets are X feet apart from each
other...again, what's the harm in 1 additional quick check? (and if you say
their reputation, I'd argue it might have helped their reputation as oppose to
harm it)

~~~
cookiecaper
You waste the time and resources of the venue and cause some lackey to hate
his job.

~~~
JoachimSchipper
Said lackey just got paid to eat a whole bunch of brown M&Ms.

~~~
DavidAdams
Not to mention the fact that once you've acknowledged that you've read the
contract, likely you'd be able to strike the M&M provision.

------
micheljansen
Always assumed they were just a bunch of divas for doing this, but now it
makes sense :)

When I was in charge of leading meetings as chairman of a study association, I
used to do something similar. Every once in a while, the secretary and I would
conspire to put some easter eggs in the list of decisions or action items,
such as "Person X will bring a fresh, home-baked cake to the meeting on Y". If
that person did not object during the meeting the minutes were accepted, it
was a playful reminder to prepare for meetings, with a perk of free cake :D

------
smackfu
So I have a question about these riders: some of them specify a lot of
specific equipment like amps and mixers... does the venue really provide that?
Do they rent it, or is the listing just like a minimum spec and the artist and
venue negotiate to use what is already on site at the venue?

~~~
ams6110
Power requirements back in the early days of mega-tours were a big deal. Some
arenas did not have power capacity much in excess of what was necessary for
the house lights and PA. An acquaintance in the mobile generating business
used to tell stories about when an act like Van Halen came to town they would
need to set up several semi-trailers worth of portable diesel generators at
the back of the venue to be able to power their light show and amplifiers.

~~~
Nick_C
I've often wondered before about this. How do you plug in a big generator set
without disturbing the power company? I imagine they would get pissed if all
of a sudden they are getting weird frequency or voltage perturbations down the
line.

------
prawn
There was a very detailed Metallica rider online that I read some time ago.
Quite entertaining. Might be this one?

<http://www.thesmokinggun.com/backstage/hall-fame/metallica>

~~~
joezydeco
You mean FRANTIC INC.,(METALLICA)? You'd miss that important distinction if
you didn't look closely.

------
rglover
This really made me want to put aside some time to read the David Lee Roth
autobiography. I love learning little bits like this about people who are
generally recognized as idiots in the public eye. Fantastic.

------
pbreit
Seems like re-using the same stipulation wouldn't work longer term.

~~~
rexreed
It's not this specific stipulation that matters, but the arbitrary specificity
of the particular requirement that clues you into whether or not they read the
contract. You can change it from Brown M&Ms to something like 'a blue fur
coat' or 'two pairs of wooden clogs' and it would have the same effect.

------
donnaware
maybe we should have had van halen review the CDS contracts that nearly
brought down the financial system.

