
Canary - Smart home security device for everyone - superchink
http://canary.is/
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kt9
I think this looks really cool and interesting (esp. given that I'm looking
for a home security system right now).

However, please can you make your website simpler and just have a regular
scroll? The javascript scroll effect makes it really difficult for me to
explore how this works and the benefits / features. I'm on ubuntu linux &
chrome and using my scroll wheel is super slow and painful. The js scroll
effect is taking away from letting me figure out how this works.

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rhizome
It's very easy to scroll through and see the highlights merely by browsing
without javascript. Whitelist AWS and you get basically all the images and
words on one page. That said, just go straight to the indiegogo page rather
than mucking about on the product site.

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dfc
How do you whitelist AWS?

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rhizome
Oh, just via NoScript/RequestPolicy and allowing it through. :) It doesn't
need to be WL'ed if already let through.

~~~
dfc
I use NS+RP too but I did not see anything listed for AWS.

~~~
rhizome
The images interspersed were hosted on AWS, but weren't required to understand
what was going on.

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apendleton
It seems like they don't take the physical security of the device into
consideration at all. For example, I don't see anything about battery backup,
so if I have above-ground power lines and my would-be intruder cuts mine
before breaking in, am I screwed? Supposing I thought ahead and got a UPS,
what about the phone or cable line? If I try and connect to it from the
outside and can't, can I distinguish between a failure because Comcast is
having an outage, and a failure because someone smashed my Canary with a
sledgehammer, or stole it?

Security companies sell an overpriced product, but they've been at this for a
while. Most security systems don't have to be in plain view because they're
not also the sensor, so someone would have to find one to disable it, and
would probably have to cross through the paths of more than one sensor before
doing so. Battery backups in case of power failure are also a standard
feature, and GSM backup modules are readily available for dealing with
communications failures. And this is without even considering many of the
other advantages of standard systems: UL-licensed call centers, modular sensor
systems so that you can easily add, e.g., flood sensors, if you're prone to
basement flooding, etc.

I get that they're going for an easy-to-use product with nice industrial
design, but comparing it side-to-side with a real system because it looks like
an Apple product and has an app is disingenuous.

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derekdahmer
If robbers are cutting your power lines before entering your house like a
scene out of Panic Room, you have bigger problems.

For people who don't have any security system at all because they are too
complicated, unfriendly and expensive, this is a great way for them to add a
basic level of security and awareness into their home that they didn't have
before.

~~~
apendleton
You're right; that was a little movie-plot-threat-esque. Something that might
be more realistic: what's to stop someone from waiting until the power goes
out to rob me?

And yes, I recognize that something is better than nothing. I was motivated to
post by two things: firstly, _my_ security system comes with a battery backup,
and my sense is that this is a standard feature. I assume if that didn't
provide useful additional security, it wouldn't be a standard feature.
Secondly, if you're going to have a side-by-side table that lists a bunch of
ways your security product is better than the industry-standard product with
which it's meant to compete, as they do on their indiegogo (going so far as to
call current technology "broken"), you should be honest if it does so by being
less secure. They imply an equivalence that isn't justified.

~~~
ynniv
No it's not. If you live in a detached house your phone line, power, water,
cable, etc, is readily accessible from outdoors. I've never robbed a house,
but it seems pretty prudent to cut those things with an axe before you enter.
Maybe thieves aren't doing that _because_ security systems are commonly
battery backed? They would have to be cellular as well. I'm not sure, but your
original concern does not seem far fetched.

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benkillin
This looks interesting but unless I could set up my own infrastructure so I
would have total control of where the video stream goes I would never use one,
especially in light of recent events.

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staunch
Two things that would make this work for me, as opposed to my home grown old
Linux laptop + webcam setup.

1\. Make these devices cost < $100, so getting 2-5 of them makes sense. 720p
HD webcams are ~$17 retail. Raspberry Pis are ~$35 retail.

2\. Encrypt everything on the device, upload to your hosting solution (but let
me use my own location if I want), and then make the client do decryption
using my key. No one but the user should be able to decrypt/view anything.

But what I _really_ want is for someone to create a "base station" that
handles all the fancy stuff with little wireless(/encrypted) webcams that are
(optionally) battery powered and tiny so you can stick them everywhere. To
save power they could have a motion detection sensor and only start
transmitting video wirelessly when there's motion.

$120 for the base station + $40/wireless "agent" cams would sell like
hotcakes.

~~~
maratd
> Make these devices cost < $100

You're paying for the software.

Yes, you can get the hardware cheap. I can build a similar device that detects
all of the things theirs does for about 75 bucks. The problem is the software
will be a complete mess and a complete horror to use.

~~~
staunch
I think the problem is that they're trying to make significant profits from
the hardware or they just designed it to be expensive. If the product was
sufficiently high volume and they got most users to sign up for remote hosting
they could make far more money.

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tlrobinson
My first thought: I wonder if the FBI/NSA/etc could compel Canary to give them
access to live audio/video feeds of your home.

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test-it
Lets not talk about that. Ycombinator is about rich people funding startups.
Rich people of course like the status quo. Criticizing it, won't get you
funding, but a hell ban ;-)

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forgotAgain
The risk / reward for early adopters seems insufficient to me. For a 20%
discount (249/199) you're accepting the risk that the device is delivered and
works as advertised. I wish them luck, the device does fills a need, but as a
consumer the pricing doesn't work for me.

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jmomo
I've set up my own home security monitoring in the past using a camera,
Zoneminder, and other tools.

Zoneminder is not that great, and I would love to have a packaged commercial
solution which isn't too locked down from it's owner. I think there are nice
opportunities for business in this area.

That all said, I hate gimicky javash*t websites like this. If I have to
noscript-enable sites like jquery.com, your site probably is too sleazy for me
to look at. Stop hiding your product behind cheesy effects.

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EvanAnderson
I've used Zoneminder and, you're right, it's not all that great.

If you can stomach running Windows you might have a look at the Geovision NVR
software
([http://www.geovision.com.tw/english/Prod_GVNVRV85.asp](http://www.geovision.com.tw/english/Prod_GVNVRV85.asp)).
I find it to be a lot more polished than Zoneminder. The user interface is a
bit ugly but the functionality has been satisfactory. I have a client using it
in a 100 camera installation, and another using it with just a single camera
and it works well in both cases. A license to use the software is included
with any of Geovision's cameras, which are also quite nice (and Linux-based,
though they don't allow you to get root on the cameras).

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vsviridov
If I can't run the backend on my own server - I don't want it...

~~~
lutorm
I was going to say the same thing. I'm not going to get burned by another nice
gadget that becomes a useless paperweight when the company that made it shuts
down.

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ynniv
Well, they picked an industry that has _always_ had that problem. People
mostly don't think about it now because everyone but ADT went out of business.

~~~
lutorm
That's true if a security company is involved. But you could perfectly well
have a device like this without involving a third party if all it's going to
do is alert me.

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marcamillion
This looks awesome - won't lie. But the paranoid skeptic in me has me
concerned about the device being hacked. Imagine this siren being triggered in
the middle of the night.

Also imagine people spying on you, in your home - if I am at home, how do I
know if the camera is on? I assume that there isn't a big red light on the
front, because if an intruder is there then that will give away the fact that
they are being recorded. But if someone else, nefariously, accesses the device
and starts recording me I would love to know that immediately.

Also, a potentially 'always-on' video & audio recorded in wake of Prism is
actually more scary than people breaking in.

I love the idea though, and I feel like those issues can be addressed by the
company.

~~~
GoNB
> _I assume that there isn 't a big red light on the front, because if an
> intruder is there then that will give away the fact that they are being
> recorded. _

Most surveillance cameras DO have a light when they're on. An intruder may
recognize a security camera, realize it's recording, and leave. Would you
rather have a burglar steal possessions from your home or be deterred from the
presence of a camera? (a possible problem with the Canary is it doesn't look
like a camera so regardless of light an intruder may ignore it)

That said, burglars are probably wearing some sort of mask obscuring their
face, so neither scenario may make a difference. What really matters is
monitoring in real-time and receiving alerts of suspicious activity and acting
upon it.

~~~
marcamillion
> _What really matters is monitoring in real-time and receiving alerts of
> suspicious activity and acting upon it._

That's true....perhaps I am over thinking it.

After hearing all the cases of people's laptops being hacked and their webcams
being turned on - I can see a crazy incentive for people to start hacking
these devices. That's a bit scary to me.

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tehwebguy
The video on their indiegogo page is way more useful IMO:

[http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/canary-the-first-smart-
hom...](http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/canary-the-first-smart-home-
security-device-for-everyone)

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bargl
I think this looks really cool, but I have a smartthing. I'd be interested to
see this encompassed by their system, because one device does not a secure
home make. But by itself I'd have to buy one for every room and angle to make
me feel actually secure.

For those who want more info on smartthings here ya go.
[http://www.smartthings.com/](http://www.smartthings.com/)

~~~
nsxwolf
Currently not taking orders.

~~~
schappim
Yeah, perhaps [http://ninjablocks.com](http://ninjablocks.com) instead...

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krapht
Not sure I'm a huge fan of the all-in-one approach. I'd prefer a distributed
network of sensors. Also, looking at their ad copy --- sensing fire using a
temperature sensor is a fool's game. By the time the temperature changes
appreciably, you're in deep trouble, depending of course on the sensor
location.

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dhughes
I've been trying to find an outside security camera for years my only two
requirements are 1. resolution greater than 640x480 2. able to be used outside
in temperatures lower than 0°C (preferably -20°C).

There's nothing out there and anything close is thousands of dollars and
commercial/industrial only.

~~~
EvanAnderson
I don't want to seem like I'm shilling for Geovision in this thread. I have
two clients who have Geovision cameras and they have had great luck with them.

Have a look at:
[http://pd.geovision.tw/datasheet/BX-E/Datasheet_IPCamBX120DE...](http://pd.geovision.tw/datasheet/BX-E/Datasheet_IPCamBX120DE.pdf)

That camera is housed in an outdoor enclosure rated at -40°C and has a
1280x1024 resolution (there are higher available in that product line). That's
about a $700 camera. I haven't worked with that model, personally.

One of my clients has a number of this model installed:
[http://pd.geovision.tw/datasheet/Bullet/Datasheet_IPCamBL121...](http://pd.geovision.tw/datasheet/Bullet/Datasheet_IPCamBL1210.pdf)

This camera is only rated to -10°C, but is more like a $500 camera.

~~~
dhughes
Thanks but that's what I would class as industrial. I'm looking for something
I can set up at my parents, aunts, uncles places connected either wireless
(preferred) or cable to a standard PC (Win/Mac).

No offense but that camera shown in that link would make the place look like a
crack house or Hells Angels clubhouse.

D-Link makes a nice 360 degree fairly low profile camera the DCS-6010L but
it's not very durable it can't operate under OC.

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mwc
I wonder how the insurance market will respond to this? One of the incentives
for installing an alarm (although this is a cheaper proposition) is a
reduction in contents insurance.

In my experience, the question is not "do you have an authorised / specified
alarm service" (although there is usually a distinction between monitored and
unmonitored alarms), but simply "do you have an alarm system?".

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SpikeDad
Not smart. How could 1 device in 1 location be optimized to detect motion,
video and environmental conditions.

I went with the iSmartAlarm (which was an Indiegogo project from last year
which uses wireless, battery powered sensors which report back to the central
device plugged into my router.

Makes a lot more sense to put the sensors where they're best positioned to
detect the specific activity for which they're designed.

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dfc
I would like to know what the "air quality sensor" does. A lot of the places I
would want an air sensor are locations in the house where many of the other
features would be useless and/or unwelcome. The placement/howmany guide
suggests that the use case is largely entrances. Entrances are the last place
I would want to put a air sensor, thermometer and/or hygrometer.

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bochoh
Put this in my server room - give it a few Ethernet ports to let me know if my
switches have link, throw in the option to log video locally, and make it so I
can bolt it down so that the thief doesn't run off with it.

~~~
iAinsley
This is the main problem. Thieves watch TV and have facebook accounts. They
will see the Canary and be on alert. Thieves aren't that clueless, contrary to
other types of criminals. The premeditated nature of robbing someone's house
allows the provisions for obstacles like pets, alarms, cameras (e.g. masks),
time for police to arrive (i.e. 3 minutes), canaries (unplug, toss into
trash), etc. At best, the Canary will tell you, a masked intruder unplugged me
and tossed me in a closet; or in a bag with the rest of the stolen goods ;)
lol.

Just kidding.

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dclowd9901
Interesting idea, but if you have a pet, is there any value at all to such a
device?

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staunch
Pointing the camera above their height works pretty well for me (I have small
dogs). Creating motion detection "zones" in areas they can't go also works.

