
Men,  commit to  mentor women - r_singh
https://leanin.org/mentor-her
======
midasz
> Senior-level men are now far more hesitant to spend time with junior women
> than junior men across a range of basic work activities.3 They are:

> 12x more likely to hesitate to have 1-on-1 meetings

> 9x more likely to hesitate to travel together for work

> 6x more likely to hesitate to have work dinners.

I think a contributing factor is that harassment can ultimately be a he-
said/she-said kind of deal. You hear horror stories about men being falsely
accused and getting their lives ruined (though I don't know how big that
number is, but it's something to get mad about so it gets a lot of attention).
Exemplified by the 12x more likely to hesitate to have 1-on-1 meetings. Any
fix for this seems to be bad, adding third parties, adding surveillance, etc.
All of that points to 'one of these parties is not to be trusted'.

~~~
reboog711
> You hear horror stories about men being falsely accused and getting their
> lives ruined

While I have heard these stories, they are all anecdotes that I wasn't able to
verify. Can you give any real cases?

~~~
throwaway84538
Throwaway for obvious reasons. I was let go due to "financial reasons" because
a co-worker brought up her ass to me and my confused reply, which I didn't
mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I
mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment. I immediately apologized
either way. She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship, me
being married, her being 10 years younger than me and her talking about it,
but I was sexually harassing her in her eyes. I can say for certain real
sexual harrasment happens and I've even put a stop to it in more than one
occasion in my management role or at family settings, but I've definitely been
falsely accused. I brought up the conversation to my wife the night it
happened and she thought it was hilarious because she knows me. Especially
back then I was very socially awkward. Something I've worked at for years to
get better at. I now work with multiple female coworkers very well, but they
are all adults who don't behave like this to me.

~~~
alphabettsy
She “brought up her ass to you” and your reply “slipped part your filter”.
What does any of that mean?

~~~
pwinnski
It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but
it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to
him.

When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior,
you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your
actions.

~~~
throwaway84538
I take responsibility for my actions, but this kind of proves the point of why
guys don't want to be around women in the workplace. It doesn't matter what
the situation is you're automatically assumed to be a lecherous hump. My
comment which was meant as a "what the hell am I supposed to say to that"
could easily have been construed differently. Bad behavior? I was mentally
exhausted from 12 hours on the phone, locking up for the night, and someone I
barely knew starts saying sexually suggestive comments at me and literally
shaking her ass as she says it. What exactly do I need to come to terms with?
I apologized because whatever I said I hadn't meant to say anything. I'm not
saying what I said because it would immediately identify me as it was a really
awkward thing to say in any conversation but it wasn't in any way sexually
suggestive, i.e. I was not making any references to performing acts on her or
requesting any acts from her, nor was I asking her to take it further, I was
in no way going to impact her career as I didn't even work directly with her,
this was a young woman I had spoken to roughly twice prior in a simple hello
in the break room. I was horribly socially awkward back then and it's taken me
years to get to the point I am today in social situations, I've worked on it
and gotten better and I don't tolerate sexual harassment of women in my
workplace, but that's not good enough. You want to know why men stop
mentoring? Because one misconstrued comment can literally cost you a job.
You're automatically assumed guilty, just like on this comment thread. It kind
of sounds like men need to be defensive.

~~~
alphabettsy
Any implications are based on exactly what you said. You painted a picture of
the scenario about like looking through Jello.

In one sentence you say you made an inappropriate comment and apologized, and
later lament that one misconstrued comment can cost you a job, but that’s not
what happened.

It seems like you still don’t feel any responsibility. Maybe the woman did
tempt you, I don’t know what she said, but you make it seems as if she made
the words come from your mouth. If she made sexually suggestive comments
first, that’s wrong and she should’ve been disciplined as well, but how is
anyone to know that when you can’t be straightforward.

~~~
throwaway84538
I never said I made an inappropriate comment, I said I hadn't meant to say
anything and someone could have construed it as something it wasn't. I
apologized because the situation was awkward. Should women who apologize when
men are harassing them be automatically considered the guilty party? At what
point do I get empathy from you for being put in a situation I clearly did not
put myself in. I didn't know this young woman, I hadn't made advances towards
her, yet she felt it appropriate to make a very overt sexual advance at me.
Yeah I see entirely that I should take responsibility for not immediately
having a perfect response to an awkward situation. You've proven the point of
every man who doesn't want to mentor with your comments in this thread. Guilty
until proven innocent.

------
xupybd
It’s a simple risk reward call. There is far more risk of accidentally
crossing the line with the opposite sex. Yes MeToo has shed light on a lot and
no doubt been a net positive but there will be a time until the dust settles
and people learn how to work together safely. We no longer have a good formal
set of norms for male female interaction. Maybe that could make some sense in
situations like the work place where there is a power difference.

~~~
SiempreViernes
"No longer"? #MeToo was about highlighting how many dysfunctional behaviours
occurred with the current set of norms, so clearly the old norms didn't work
great either.

~~~
goldcd
I suspect that view depends on your gender.

I didn't mean that as a facetious comment. As (hopefully) a non-creepy male I
was blissfully unaware of the prevalence. _I_ didn't do it, see it, hear it -
and therefore it didn't happen. Therefore nothing to worry about.

Now I know it happens far more frequently that I'd thought, I worry about it.
Plus, unlike a lot of other workplace issues, it's.. well currently awkward
(for want of a better word) to handle.

If you didn't believe to be somebody involved before, it's a little hard to
work out how you should adjust your behaviour.

e.g. "Would you care to join me for dinner after the meetings today, I assure
you it is merely to discuss the outcome of the workshops and the day ahead. I
can assure you that it is in no way an attempt for me to force you to spend
some time with me in the presence of alcohol. I would like to stress I would
never try to use my power to seduce you. I tried to ask HR how to ask you out,
but they got worried as well. When I said "asked out" just then I didn't mean
in a "date" sense, but in a..."

 _orders room service_

~~~
goldcd
OK - more facetious than I thought. Sorry.

Maybe more realistic scenario is just when working away asking "Can you come
to my room so we can spend 30 mins updating the deck for tomorrow?"

Think I'd have been fine asking that previously - and now maybe less so. We
can try to lurk in a corner of the lobby, which is annoying loud and doesn't
have a desk.

But that change involves the thought of "maybe I'm considered to be a creepy
male" \- and that's not a nice thought to have (although probably good for
me).

~~~
timavr
Just change the question to? Are you OK with us continuing in my room because
blah blah, otherwise we can just do it in the lobby.

Basically, you give them power to decide where they feel comfortable most.
Especially first time around.

“Can you come to my room in 30m to do blah” is an order basically, so as a
result you already create hostile situation irrelevant of gender.

~~~
slowmovintarget
That's still no good (opinion, not statement of fact).

Just suggest the lobby, or find a coffee shop. It may be annoying, but now
you're not putting any burden on her at all. If she suggests an alternative,
you can use your judgement, but why even put that on her in the first place?

------
WordSkill
> _Not harassing women is not enough._ > >Now more than ever, we need men to
> support women–not overlook or avoid them.

They have got to be joking.

If you care about your career, your family and your reputation, you simply do
not leave yourself open to even the slightest possibility of being falsely
accused of anything, or having someone suddenly “remember” something in ten or
twenty years time if you reach the top levels of your industry.

Like it or not, we are back to Victorian rules. At work, you never allow
yourself to be alone with a female colleague. You do not strike up casual
conversations that could be misconstrued. You do not offer them a lift home.
Most importantly, you do not become their mentor, friend, emotional support,
or anything beyond polite, respectful, professional interactions directly
related to work.

I know, I know, it sounds ridiculous, but our culture has changed. There is an
insatiable appetite for scalps, accusations are considered proof, and there is
no sign of sanity or reason entering the equation anytime soon. With such
potential to rip your life apart, the only sane move is to firewall yourself.

~~~
timavr
But a result, you treat them unfairly vs male colleagues.

Also same logic can be applied to any minority who is not in power.

I can’t be in room with black, trans-gender, gay, immigrants etc.

So as result the only people who you built relationships are white straight
dudes which get promoted.

~~~
luckylion
> Also same logic can be applied to any minority who is not in power.

No, not really. There are basically zero (published) incidents where, for
example, a black guy claims somebody else insulted him when they were alone.
For trans women (not f2m, as far as I know), it gets dicey as well.

And you're certainly right: you'll treat them differently, which may be unfair
to them, but risk you career to treat them fairly? I doubt that a lot of
people will choose fairness to others over their future.

~~~
alphabettsy
What? Even my local news has had stories about black people claiming they were
called racial slurs or subjected to racist jokes at work. Google “GM plant
racism” for a national story, of Tesla, or Chrysler. It’s been an issue at all
in the last few years.

~~~
luckylion
Sorry, I didn't mean to say there isn't any racism, I meant it's not a he-
said-she-said-situation that can end careers without any evidence of
wrongdoing.

The Toledo plant sounds very different from that, with "whites only" signs and
nooses (and management tolerating it). The men who are not mentoring women for
the reasons stated in the article certainly don't openly insult and harass
them, because that would end their careers much, much quicker than mentoring
them and being falsely accused of inappropriate behavior.

~~~
alphabettsy
People care significantly less about racism which is why it doesn’t often end
careers, but instead leads to sensitivity training or an apology. In many,
probably most, cases it’s exactly he-said-she-said because people aren’t
usually stupid/arrogant enough to leave physical proof of their racism.

~~~
luckylion
> People care significantly less about racism which is why it doesn’t often
> end careers

Exactly, that's all I said. The he-said-she-said isn't enough to have severe
consequences, hence few people are uncomfortable to meet 1:1 with a minority.

------
MrLeftHand
Well, this is where social media and social justice brought us. People are so
afraid of each other that they actively try to barricade themselves in real
life.

We thought we are opening doors, but we are actually closing them, one by one.

Instead of following a simple 'live and let live' rule, we are now actively
hunting for the slightest mistakes and missteps. Humans can't be humans
anymore, there is no room for error, or mistake. Even if the court rules in
favour of the accused, the branding they can get on social platforms breaks
their careers and it might drive them to suicide. Where mobs demand the
employer to fire said individual is just insane.

But why are we even surprised, when just telling a tasteless joke counts as an
offence nowadays? Where the micro-aggression craze is consuming everybody and
some forms of speech are labeled as an act of violence. People are more afraid
of saying something offending to someone than having an office shooter
marching through the door and gunning down people.

Walking away was never more an appropriate response as it is right now. The
reward is minuscule compared to the risk one can take in these situations on a
personal level.

~~~
apacheCamel
I think there are a lot of gives and takes here. People being "afraid" of each
other seems a bit dramatic. I think this may be the first time many men in the
workplace had to sit back and evaluate the things they say before they say
them. This movement has shed light on some of the utterly repulsive behavior
people have been getting away with for years, now people just ask you to think
twice before telling a joke. If thinking before saying something to a female
coworker is that difficult for so many, then I am not really sure what we can
do to fix it.

~~~
MrLeftHand
> People being "afraid" of each other seems a bit dramatic.

In universities and colleges people are afraid voicing their political
opinion, or just disagreeing in general with the mainstream. Not just because
they would meet lot of counter arguments, but actual physical violence and
even getting expelled from school.

Nobody is defending sexual predators and abusive behaviour. But there is a
clear bias towards men when it comes to accusations. You don't have to be a
predator to say, or do something in a way where the other person will take it
as abuse. You don't have to be a man either, but it would make much easier.
Everybody can be in this situation. Just fail to identify a transgender person
and use a wrong pronoun and you will find yourself in front of HR so fast that
you won't have time to say sorry.

If a joke can get you in trouble so much that you even lose your job just
because a woman's feelings were hurt, then there is a problem with the system.
Is one person's feeling more important than another's life?

This whole situation is a slippery-slope as there will be always someone being
offended by something.

I think the key is tolerance. Understanding that everybody makes mistakes.
Nobody is perfect. And when they apologise we should stop the witch hunt. Also
we should embrace differences between sexes and not trying blurring the lines.

~~~
apacheCamel
>You don't have to be a predator to say, or do something in a way where the
other person will take it as abuse.

No you don't and this is a problem. Anybody can say something abusive but that
doesn't make it right.

>Just fail to identify a transgender person and use a wrong pronoun and you
will find yourself in front of HR so fast that you won't have time to say
sorry.

Out of all the transgender people I know, they will correct you if you fail to
use the correct pronoun OR they will let you know first, that way you don't
feel awkward. It is up to you then to follow through with it.

I think there are a vocal few who are super easily offended and too many
people are focusing on them. They don't make up the general populace. Just
like how not every guy is out to make crude jokes and be offensive. It always
seems like the "not every guy" defensive always comes up but it is
unfathomable that not everyone is as easily offended as this vocal minority.

~~~
MrLeftHand
>No you don't and this is a problem. Anybody can say something abusive but
that doesn't make it right.

Of course it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it a valid reason to
drag that person through the dirt. Especially if something was said between
the accused and a third person and the accuser was just eavesdropping on the
conversation.

>I think there are a vocal few who are super easily offended and too many
people are focusing on them. They don't make up the general populace. Just
like how not every guy is out to make crude jokes and be offensive. It always
seems like the "not every guy" defensive always comes up but it is
unfathomable that not everyone is as easily offended as this vocal minority.

I agree, we are talking about minorities on both sides. Not every man is an
abusive predator and not every woman is going to be a snowflake, who will cry
abuse over everything a man says.

But as my first comment stated, the problem is that our current society caters
to them. They are the ones who will go great lengths to ruin peoples lives,
even when it turns out the accusations were false. They pressure companies
into firing people. They harass, threaten, deplatform and dox people without
thinking about the damages they cause. And when you work with a person like
this (and you might not know this) you will be the target very fast, even for
the slightest mistake.

And don't forget the bias towards genders. We talk about biases towards women
for countless hours, but when someone brings up the biases towards men, that
person is kicked out of the conversation. A level playing field goes both
ways.

~~~
apacheCamel
People get kicked out of the conversation because men still have power. A good
example of this would be this exact argument. A woman feels uncomfortable
about a man and she is a "whiny snowflake" while a man feels uncomfortable
about a woman and the world needs to change.

~~~
MrLeftHand
Haha, good job trying to take it out of context. Of course I used a woman as
analogy, given the current topic.

Anyone can be a snowflake, but still the main goal is, that people shouldn't
be over sensitive when it comes to words or mistakes. It's one thing being
targeted and one thing hearing something you don't like and throw a tantrum
over it, or destroying another human's life.

> because men still have power.

So you're saying men kick out men for pointing out biases towards men? Yeah,
sure.

------
anonymous5133
This was similar to the reaction of the Americans with Disabilities act. After
the ADA was passed, the amount of disabled people employed actually decreased.
Employers know that hiring an ADA employee would potentially result in an ADA
lawsuit, so they avoided hiring them. It was the old well intention law with
unintended consequences.

~~~
akvadrako
I don't know what makes you think those laws were well intentioned. Politics
pass laws because it'll make themselves look good, not to help people.

------
toxicFork
> As for why this is happening, 36% of men say they’ve avoided mentoring or
> socializing with a woman because they were nervous about how it would look.

I am curious to hear all reasons.

Additionally, what are they proposing as a solution here? For men to say "I am
comfortable to mentor women"? Ok, how do you get them to be at that place?
Just saying "it's not acceptable to be uncomfortable" does nothing.

At my workplace you can submit to be a mentor and you get assigned people who
would like to learn from your skills and experience. Sometimes these are men,
sometimes these are women. You first commit to "be a mentor". Then it is your
responsibility and duty to do your mentorship well no matter who is assigned
to you. Sure you would get a right to vote against who your mentee is but most
of the time the commitment motto is enough to face being uncomfortable.

------
danmaz74
As it often happens, we went from one extreme to the other.

------
alphabettsy
Some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately, that’s been
my lifelong experience. Maybe the response to changing culture also explains
the decline in sex for young men and the number of people here saying “here,
here” in response to this article rather than being constructive.

This is how change works, people have to adapt. A lot of you are arguing that
you should give up rather than deal with changing culture, more for the rest I
guess.

~~~
0815test
Why is "the decline in sex for young men" even relevant here? Most people who
argue that "some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately"
would say that 'behaving appropriately' means that professional interactions
among strangers should _not_ be unduly sexualized. So why even bring up sex at
all, it seems like a red herring here.

~~~
Balgair
I think they are saying that those categories of men overlap closely. The men
that do not know how to interact with women in the workforce are closely
overlapped with the men who cannot 'get past 3rd base'.

I'm unsure how the modern world is affecting both areas simultaneously though.
Perhaps cis-hetero women are just not putting up with things that they used
too put up with.

~~~
luckylion
> The men that do not know how to interact with women in the workforce are
> closely overlapped with the men who cannot 'get past 3rd base'.

Given that the major examples are Harvey Weinstein & Co, I believe that would
be comically wrong.

~~~
croon
By your example, a rapist technically gets past 3rd base too. But that doesn't
in any way reflect on the argument made.

Harvey Weinstein is not and was not by any definition a "ladies man". If for
example depp or mcconaughey or any other seemingly successful ladies man were
the main archetype of the "Weinstein & Co", your point would stand, here it
does not.

This is not in support of how well these two groups overlap or not, just a
critique of your logic.

~~~
luckylion
> Harvey Weinstein is not and was not by any definition a "ladies man".

He wasn't a socially awkward recluse either, that's the point: he's an
aggressive, ultra-successful alpha-male. Looks work, power does too. Weinstein
didn't have the looks, but he had all that power.

It's just a totally different demographic. I'd love to see some hints, because
I really didn't get anything even remotely close in the media.

------
rdl
I'd like to think I would be equally willing to assist people independent of
gender, but there are absolutely some formats of activity where I'd be very
reluctant to participate with a female, particularly a younger/whatever
female. "Meet up for drinks after the conference one on one" is one of those
-- I'd do it with a guy, or with someone I knew well, but wouldn't with a
random woman in a lot of cases, both because I wouldn't want her to feel
potentially uncomfortable, and because I wouldn't want the potential
liability. Also I'd be willing to let a guy friend/colleague/etc. use my hotel
room to store stuff/use the bathroom/whatever during a conference, but unless
it's a peer-level colleague that I know well, would not do this with a woman.

I'd try to compensate by changing the format (adding a third or more person,
or meeting at a different time or location), but I wouldn't be surprised if
there's a marginal case where it would disadvantage the woman. However,
there's no stranger or non-close-friend for whom I'd be willing to accept the
liability here.

------
triplee
Then these 60% of dudes are clearly unqualified for management. Please either
figure your business out or make room for someone who is capable of
management.

And I say this because if a manager is that afraid of accusations, they are
either doing something to earn said accusations, are promoting a work
environment where false accusations are easily believed, or simply just a
crappy manager and probably not good at dealing with many of their male
reports either.

I note the last one because the two main archetypes that feel this way tend to
be older management types that were taught by Mad Men era managers (read
overgrown frat boys) or are Mike Pence style ultra-niche religious. Now,
again, neither of those are flaws in and of themselves, but if you can't come
above those backgrounds and manage a diverse team, then you don't deserve a
team.

~~~
sdinsn
> And I say this because if a manager is that afraid of accusations, they are
> either doing something to earn said accusations, are promoting a work
> environment where false accusations are easily believed, or simply just a
> crappy manager and probably not good at dealing with many of their male
> reports either.

And there is the victim blaming.

------
thrower123
It's quite a lot easier to just work in an all-male department. You don't have
to tiptoe around, you can say what you think, criticism can be offered
honestly. Considerably fewer grudges are held. Stuff just gets done.

My wife works as a PM for another software company with a much different
gender ratio, and every day she comes home with stories about backbiting and
jockeying for position and incredibly petty feuding that makes the sum of what
I've seen in the entire eight years at my employer pale in comparison. Every
single day it's more drama, and they drown in communication, with so much
sound and fury, signifying nothing.

------
WeirdFlexButOky
What the heck.

As a (trans) woman who is non-tech in a tech company I find this stat
concerning.

Just talk to me like a I'm a fellow human, it's not that hard!

PS; not too sure what 'working alone' means in terms of a common work
activity?

~~~
anonymous5133
The problem is people don't know what will offend you so they play the safe
route of avoiding all contact. No discussions means no risk of lawsuit,
accusations etc.

I used to work at a construction company where the owner was paranoid about
sexual harassment lawsuits. For this reason, he specifically hired overweight
older women for all of the administrative staff because he knew this would
minimize the risk of sexual harassment lawsuits. The company never had any
issues with it.

~~~
WeirdFlexButOky
'specifically hired overweight older women for all of the administrative staff
because he knew this would minimize the risk of sexual harassment lawsuits'

I honestly cannot believe this mindset exists, that's insane. Basing hiring
decisions like this is redic. It also assumes overweight older women are not
attractive, and idk whether they've seen porn website stats but that's a
flawed assumption.

------
AdamHede
people calling it a sensible strategy or solid 'risk assessment' really
surprises me.

You are to a large degree in charge of your risk. Proper, fullblown, 100%
fabcricated accussations seems exceedingly rare. I've never seen any stats and
the anecdotes I hear are often 3rd or 4rd degree.

Be a decent human being and you are probably still more likely to get struck
by lightning or die in a car crash.

Meanwhile, the cost of walling yourself off from 50% of your colleagues (or as
a manager, to avoid 50% of the workforce) seems like a very high cost to your
career.

~~~
cannonedhamster
No one expects to be in a situation until they're in it. It's a Faustian
bargain to be sure. There's no good outcome to come of either men sexually
harassing women in any situation, and cutting out female coworkers isn't the
solution either but plainly this was an expected result. If people are
rational their first reaction is to be selfish and protect themselves and
their family. In a few years there will be a new normal and things will start
changing, but social change always does.

------
dondawest
Joe Lonsdale already tried that. Didn’t work out too great for poor Joe!

------
guilhas
I have been in 3 different companies in the UK as a developer, and I feel the
opposite, men are more keen to help female developers, and are nicer and more
patient. Sometimes it even feels kinda pervert.

------
dang
The study was discussed here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19945514](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19945514).

------
spaniel
Predictable results

Men are economically more powerful than women, because that's what women want,
and it's one way men get sex - yup, sex I a commodity that men want, and women
have, and the pay gap squares the trade.

We'll end up with frustrated career women, and sexless men otherwise.

~~~
xiphias2
We already have sexless men. If you look at the stats, sex for men between 20
and 30 is declining rapidly, while for women it didn't change that much (just
probably got more concentrated to fewer men)

------
devoply
Most important thing in modern America is to protect yourself and your
reputation from assault as a simple accusation can destroy your life and
plenty of people lie. Some rhetoric is not going to change that fact.

~~~
pas
No need to lie, it's enough if someone misunderstood the other and it got ugly
(HR etc involved).

------
Frodo478
What a stupid article

------
timavr
Only in America.

Women is very dangerous, be aware.

On serious note, somebody should do a startup which trains men to work with
women.

Apparently opportunity is huge. Should be the first slide. 60% of all men...

~~~
romanovcode
> which trains men to work with women.

Immediately will be labeled as sexist and forced to close business. You can't
win this battle, best way is to not play.

~~~
inflatableDodo
Are you kidding? There's loads of this kind of thing out there already. Just
call it something sickening like 'Workplace Wellness' and you are good. Though
I think they should borrow one of the existing programs from the US military
if they want to get the message through to certain people I have encountered
in management. Having a drill seargent bellow at them about it not being ok to
molest their secretary might actually work wonders.

~~~
timavr
We are getting close.

~~~
inflatableDodo
You bait and switch it as a military backed outdoor team-building exercise and
wait till everyone is half way up a mountain and can't easily get away before
getting a six and a half foot transexual marine to terrify them into
understanding the concept of intersectionality.

~~~
timavr
Lol. I like it.

~~~
inflatableDodo
Do you think I have much of a future in HR consultancy?

~~~
timavr
Yes. On serious note, it is huge opportunity even as non VC scale biz. It is
infinite in nature.

I think the problem lies in gender education in schools and colleges, where
people get lost in transition to adult life.

Like hitting on everyone/anyone in college is fair game because there is no
power differential, but as soon as people enter workforce, they need to be
retrained.

~~~
inflatableDodo
I think the problem could be solved by a rule of no hitting on anyone in the
workplace and much shorter working hours. People get horny. If you lock them
up in the workplace for their entire waking life you are going to have some
fairly predictable issues.

------
isostatic
Ridiculous. Perhaps these people should go back to school and learn how to
talk to others?

------
amrx431
Funny story:

A person I know who works for Adobe, interviewed a girl for an entry position
job. She was asked questions like "What is the size of RAM? etc". She got
hired. They are married now. I dont know but I think this could have gone
sideways for the interviewer.

