

Craigslist begins to roll out PadMapper-like map view for apartment listings - nthitz
http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/04/craigslist-map-view/

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forgotusername
Moral of the story, yet again, ad infinitum: don't waste your time watering
somebody's else's garden. Yes it's the Internet and technically data is
practically almost free to reproduce, but this doesn't imply a trouble-free
right to steal your neighbour's database and proclaim your 100 line Javascript
hack a startup. Borrowing content like that only works when you have lawyers,
cash, and an excess of testosterone or stupidity (see also: YouTube)

~~~
qq66
More specifically, if you're infringing something, it should be to gain
momentum or some other asset that you can use once your ability to infringe
goes away, which it will if/when you become successful.

~~~
andrewljohnson
Isn't that sort of a horrible, morally bankrupt thing to say?

If there is no better reason to infringe than you want to make some profit,
then you're just a scumbag. I'd hope there was some other moral stance you are
taking before you infringe.

YouTubers will surely say the ends justify the means, that the TV monopoly
needed disruption, and it was good for consumers to break down traditional
ideas about copyrights. Maybe that's just a thin veneer on greed, but it's a
start at least.

~~~
qq66
If you can make something of value that persists after you stop infringing,
then I would say it's worth it to the world. For example, YouTube is a great
asset to the world that would not exist without early infringement. But that's
a moral calculus you have to do for yourself.

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yummies
I was kind of hoping craigslist was cooking up something awesome, and waiting
for the product to be fully polished and "magical, revolutionary" before
launching it. unfortunately, this just feels like they rushed out of the door
with the first thing they could mash up. specifically, two shortcomings: 1\.
as far as i can tell, it doesn't show you what listings you've already clicked
on, unlike every map based apartment search out there 2\. it doesn't appear to
be loading the data as you scroll around the map - it loads it all at once up
front. of course it's nice that you don't have to wait for it to load as you
scroll, but that means there's an upper bound to the number of listings you
can search through, and just goes to show how incomplete their implementation
is. i'm guessing that's why it isn't offered in NY yet - too many listings to
serve all at once

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MartinCron
You just used "fully polished", "magical" and "revolutionary" in the same
sentence as craigslist. There's no precedent for any of those adjectives.

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beatpanda
So, should PadMapper countersue Craigslist for anti-competitive behavior?

I think so, but I have a vindictive streak.

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dchuk
Protecting what is yours is not anti-competitive

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beatpanda
But what Craigslist claims is theirs is actually other people's data. Although
this protection isn't currently enshrined in U.S. law, I'd like to think my
data belongs to _me_.

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paulrademacher
Nicely done. I never had any problems with Craigslist on HousingMaps. In fact,
they were always quite helpful, e.g. unblocking my IP from their scraper list
every year or so.

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dm8
CL have eyeballs, content and audience. So I'm not surprised that they are
doing this. They'll also come victorious. Content is king. As always!

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wave
I was almost certain[1] that Craigslist was working on PadMapper like
interface and it was the reason they sued. They should have done the right
thing and hire/buy one person company PadMapper.

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4149263>

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flatline3
I don't see why the "right" thing would be to reward someone for breaking your
ToS and stealing your database as a means of creating a potential competitor
to your business.

On top of that, even if PadMapper had not been slimy, I don't see why it's
"right" to pay a sum for something you're perfectly capable of building
yourself for less time, money, effort, and headache than what an acquisition
would cost.

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derefr
No, of course, it's not like Craigslist has done some damage to PadMapper and
now needs to buy them as recompense or anything. But buying them would be
the... _gallant_ thing to do?

That is, it isn't so much what Craigslist "needs" to do to be in the right,
here, but it's what they _could_ do to be in the _very right_. To be better
than any other random classifieds company, to generate viral PR, to be
something you'd be _happy_ to say you use, etc.

~~~
flatline3
I think it would be wrong to reward the PadMapper author's ethically
questionable behavior.

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mikegirouard
I'm speculating here, but perhaps this was the root of CL suing PadMapper in
the first place.

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dumb-dumb
You think they had this functionality in the works before PadMapper?

It certinaly doesn't look good for CL, IMO, if they only started working on it
after PadMapper started gaining momentum.

It's an interesting question.

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bmm6o
Only if by "look[ing] good", you mean it changes your opinion of them. From
most perspectives it doesn't really matter when they decided to move in this
direction since it's their data. It's the same thing we've seen over and over,
where a small guys builds on someone else's platform, and the platform
provider uses their inherent advantages to take over.

~~~
dumb-dumb
IMO = in my opinion

How did you get your numbers for your conclusion about "most perspectives"?
That is not just an opinion, correct? Otherwise you might have used words like
"I think" or "in my opinion".

Another related conclusion I'm curious about is "their data" (i.e. the data
users uploaded is now CL's data). That is not just an opinion, correct? When I
search for a clear answer on that issue, I can't find one. I'd love to see
some clear guidance on this question.

Platform providers do sometimes use their advantages unfairly. But platforms
cannot succeed without some level of symbiosis between those who provide them
and those who use them. This is only my opinion. However I have seen others
say much the same thing.

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bmm6o
Sorry, misinterpreted the "IMO".

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kylelibra
Love this headline. For those unaware, Craigslist is suing PadMapper for using
their data.

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blhack
I would feel bad for the PadMapper maintainer, except for the fact that he
seemed so self-entitled here in the threads.

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graue
Really? He seemed very humble to me and consistently expressed a sincere wish
to come to an agreement with Craigslist. The impression I got was that CL
couldn't possibly have sued a nicer guy.

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philfreo
Except it sucks compared to PadMapper.

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alooPotato
Actually its pretty good - solves 90% of the use cases for me. And it feels
much faster than padmapper.

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Hilyin
Hope padmapper comes up victorious, CL is being a huge bully it seems.

~~~
redthrowaway
How are they being a bully? It's _their_ service. If they want to kick someone
off it and develop a competitor, that's their prerogative.

This is just another example of why you shouldn't base your startup on someone
else's product. If you're successful, they'll develop a competitor and use
their position to push you out.

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Karunamon
>How are they being a bully? It's their service. If they want to kick someone
off it and develop a competitor, that's their prerogative.

So? They're still being a bully. Just because you're acting within the
confines of the law and your rights doesn't necessarily mean you aren't being
a dick about it.

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fourmii
So CL are bullies for dictating what people can do with their data?

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jaggederest
The idea that Craigslist owns their posts is ridiculous. It may be true from a
legal point of view, but from a moral point of view they're just the custodian
of that data for the people posting it, and they should act as such.

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flatline3
If Craigslist doesn't own the posts, then that means the users own their own
posts, and you don't have their permission to re-use their posts.

This just puts you back where you started.

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jaggederest
Not really - the users own the posts and put them up in order to get
publicity. It's like claiming 'I republished your classified ad for you in 6
papers' is a problem - virtually every classified ad would be pleased that
they had more coverage.

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flatline3
I don't want my classified ads republished because I've chosen to publish the
advertisement in places that target specific types of people.

It's incredibly naive to assume you know best.

We have our job ads republished by job sites with user bases that are far
outside what we're interested in, and it results in a massive waste of our
time in filtering those candidates.

