

6 Year Old Faces Reform School for Bringing Cub Scout Fork/Spoon/Knife to School - mhb
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html?_r=1&hp

======
jcromartie
A zero-tolerance policy on weapons will _never_ prevent a single school
shooting or other instance of serious violence. _Never._ Not even once. A
shooter doesn't think "oh, I shouldn't shoot up my school because I will get
expelled for it." A kid doesn't think "oh no, I'm had better not stab that
rival gang member because someone might find my knife."

They completely fail to protect anybody. So why do these policies exist? There
must be some ulterior motive to them.

~~~
mquander
Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Not all crimes with weapons are
premeditated a day in advance. If someone brings a knife to school every day,
they'll almost definitely have that knife available when a fight arises,
whereas if they don't habitually bring a knife, they may not.

Also, I suspect that such zero-tolerance policies are popular among the
majority of parents, to whom the other kid is generally the frightening one,
and whose own wouldn't hurt a fly.

------
zimbu668
I accidentally brought a pocket knife to school one day, I saw it in my bag
and remembered a teacher once telling us if something like this happened just
give the knife to a teacher, explain the situation and everything would be
fine. I thought about doing that, thought some more, zipped my bag up and
didn't say a word. One of the Best Decisions of My Life. Later a younger
student, 2nd grade I believe, was expelled for voluntarily handing over a
butter knife to a teacher. Certainly a powerful lesson to anyone paying
attention. Maybe not the lesson the school board thinks it's sending though.

------
roqetman
It's sad when zero-tolerance equates to zero-common-sense.

------
maudineormsby
What a shame - the 6 year old seems to have an understanding of the difference
between a right action and a right law, which is amazing in a child of his age
- "it seems the law is what is wrong, not me." This is such a contrast to the
idiot policymakers that can't make the same distinction.

And of course, this child, whose enthusiasm for learning and life experiences
got him into this situation, is being punished for them. Zero tolerance and
zero common sense, as said by others.

------
xiaoma
Here in Taiwan, _all_ public school students his age have utility knives at
school and many regularly carry them in their pencil cases.

Serious violence here is extremely rare by western standards.

~~~
mquander
To be fair, serious violence in most American schools is rare, too. There's a
study linked from the article commissioned by the US Department of Justice:
<http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/iscs08.htm>

One telling statistic that it provides is that during the '05-'06 school year,
there was an average of one "serious violent crime" experienced per 1000
public school students (defined as "rape or attempted rape, sexual battery
other than rape, physical attack or fight with a weapon, threat of physical
attack with a weapon, and robbery with or without a weapon." -- and you can
bet that "threat of physical attack" and "physical attack or fight" is fairly
loosely defined.)

1 in 1000 per year is satisfactory, if you ask me. I don't think you can do
much better than that among the population as a whole without sacrificing a
ton more privacy and freedom.

~~~
xiaoma
Regardless of how loosely you feel the other statistics are defined, homicide
rates don't leave much wiggle room. And homicide rates are many times higher
in the west, particularly in the US.

> _1 in 1000 per year is satisfactory, if you ask me. I don't think you can do
> much better than that among the population as a whole without sacrificing a
> ton more privacy and freedom._

What leads you to that conclusion? From the sound of this article, things are
quite a bit _more_ restrictive there. Kicking children out of their normal
schools for nothing more than an honest mistake which hurt nobody isn't
exactly the most forgiving system.

------
wmeredith
The nanny state in action. What a waste of time and resources.

~~~
viraptor
It's even more crazy when something like that is a local policy... Try buying
a large bread knife when you look <20 in UK -- maybe that's why noodles are so
popular for students. Afaik noone forces that rule on the shops around here.

I remember good old times when we were required to bring large scissors and
could use a wallpaper knife on some practical lessons in the primary school.
Unfortunately that's almost terrorism lesson by today's standards. At least I
know I'll have to teach my kids to use those tools at home, so they can
create/fix basic stuff without asking for a specialist...

------
pmichaud
My son once brought a butter knife to school to spread peanut butter on some
bread for lunch. They made a prtty big deal out of it, but no one was
arrested.

------
bliving
This isn't suprising when teachers are required to ignore "teaching moments".

