
Setting Up .NET Core on RHEL - kungfudoi
http://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/06/03/a-windows-guys-guide-setting-up-net-core-on-rhel/
======
dvcc
Somewhat off topic, but all the excitement and hoorah surrounding .NET Core is
beginning to fade for me.

It seems that the product is beginning to turn into .NET 5 (Core) instead of
the original intentions of leaving behind the legacy chains.

Between the switch back to MSBuild, RC# breaking changes and the promise of
even more breaking changes post-release, I've become a little disheartened.

Change in itself isn't bad, but .NET Core was supposed to be about open
communication, and the later changes were never discussed within the actual
community, instead it was decided by MS alone.

Hell, in this article, it took multiple attempts to get it configured when its
in the release-candidate stage. No idea where this was going it was more of a
rant than anything apologies for anyone who actually read it.

~~~
atonse
I gotta agree that the excitement is waning – I don't know why they're moving
away from the JSON file back to csproj files. These files are more or less
opaque. Sure you can read them, but does anybody actually ever hand-edit them?

~~~
gnaritas
It's an obvious move to make migration easier for devs. I certainly don't want
JSON project files, I just want to be able to take my existing .NET projects
as is and build them on Core. The only place I ever want to see JSON is as a
response to some client side JavaScript call, that is its only valid use imho,
everywhere else it's not as good as the alternatives.

~~~
pjmlp
Same with me. I like XML, the automated tooling it allows for and never got
the point of the XML hate.

It was made for tools, not to be written by hand.

~~~
dragonwriter
> It was made for tools, not to be written by hand.

...but people too often end up needing to read or write it by hand. That's the
problem with XML. (Well, the other problem is that there is lots of data for
which you'd want tooling for which a text-based markup format isn't ideal in
the first place.)

~~~
gnaritas
I don't recall ever having a problem with hand editing XML, how is that the
problem with XML?

------
ozim
I am mostly windows dev and that is the thing for me with linux, you do it
three times to get anything running. Maybe I do not spend enough time with
linux but on the other hand I do not have time to do stuff three times to
learn. In current work I have mac laptop... Suffice to say everything works
out of the box even on windows our office VPN is doing weird things while on
mac it just works.

Maybe I am too old for it, when I was 12 I had time to put linux on my pentium
100 then switch processor to amd and wonder that it worked becuase motherbord
was still designed for "pentium" but now I just need stuff to work.

So I am not going to spend time on RC and convince my boss that this is latest
shiny thing we should do our big project in. Just like the guy from boiling
ocean...

~~~
JupiterMoon
As a linux dev I find the opposite. Everything I use works out of the box on
Linux and everything on Windows needs config and fiddling -- and that config
seems to always end up involving a GUI that I can never remember my way
around.

I guess what I am trying to say is that our experience with different systems
impacts how productive we are with them.

~~~
ozim
I wonder how it goes with the type of things I install. I suppose I am maybe
trying to play with "fancy" stuff on linux that is not easy to install like
.NET core. Because to install HTTP/SSH/FTP servers and configure is also quite
easy for me. Do you try to install some unusual things on windows maybe as
well??

~~~
JupiterMoon
I've never deployed on a windows server I'm thinking of my dev box here.

I just install what I think of as standard dev tools. I guess they are not
standard on Windows. Hence my pain... I pretty much would have to install
cygwin to get something I'd be close to comfortable working with -- at which
point a virtual machine is just easier (and then I can install the same OS as
on the server I'm deploying on anyway).

Whereas I guess for you .NET core is a standard thing and it is (still) not a
standard thing on Linux. Hence your pain.

~~~
ozim
Yes for new windows since 7 you do not have to install anything besides visual
studio. All .NET framework is already in windows.

------
indlebe
If you needed .NET in a production environment I'm perplexed as to why running
it on RHEL would be a good decision. The POC is excellent but I wouldn't be
serving .NET apps to my clients using this.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Cost.

We have six production nodes sitting behind a load balancer at three sites.
That's 18 total nodes, all of which we're paying to run on Windows Server.

If we could run these 18 nodes on Linux, even with the associated support
contract, we could see significant savings. All of this is a drop in the ocean
compared to our database costs (we're using a massive Oracle database) but the
savings could be enough for an extra employee.

You can argue the pros/cons of .Net in general, but we find it allows us
fairly good productivity. We've also moved a lot of front-end logic into
HTML/JS/CSS so if we ever moved platforms we aren't as tied, but right now
MVC/EF is working fine.

~~~
jdcskillet
This a million times over. We have a very similar environment except you can
add in a mainframe and a few MS SQL Servers in addition to the ridiculously
expensive Oracle stuff. However, the cost of moving VERY productive .Net staff
to something else would be even more expensive. So for now, we just wait and
see (while running a .net framework version 2 years out of compliance).

------
_RPM
This is great. I'm not really a windows guy, but I really like C#, and Linux.

~~~
TheRealDunkirk
As a total tangent, why is it everyone hates on Visual Basic, but loves C#?
Both languages get compiled to Common Intermediate Language, so it's not like
there's going to be some sort of magic speed increase by using C#. (Which,
historically, was VB's supposed problem.)

I look at the two, and all I see is lots more brackets in C#. Maybe the syntax
for lambda expressions is better? In fact, this write up
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_C_Sharp_and_Visu...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_C_Sharp_and_Visual_Basic_.NET))
seems to favor VB. Can someone enlighten me?

~~~
beagle3
Visual Basic (the latest version of which is VB6) and Visual Basic .NET are
not the same language.

VB.NET is a C# skin. VB6 was an excellent productive environment, whose
problems were the Basic language and its warts, and the community of which a
significant percentage were clueless.

People who hate VB.NET hate it because it's basically a needlessly verbose
skin of C#. People who hate VB6 hate it because they hated it 10 years ago
when it was still dying (and they don't even remember why). The bottom line is
that today no one actually likes either VB environment.

------
thatsnotreal
I don't know why anyone posts anything MS related to HN.

First post: rant about some perceived slight by MS. Response to first post:
yeah, that's what they do. They killed this thing I loved after I used it for
a while.

Some other post: Embrace Extend Extinguish.

One small post: I think its ok! <\- down vote down vote down vote...no such
thing as group think here!

You guys are so negative.

------
serge2k
> How about Java?

and then the C# devs rightfully laugh at that idea.

~~~
oneweekwonder
I don't know man, the hello world look quite the same. I don't think C# dev
have anything to laugh about. I would rather be concerned how Oracle is using
Java in courts.

But technically Java is one of the more favorable languages we have out there
in the world. Go look at tooling like Scala, Maven, how easy it is to get
something running on a *nix box.

public class HelloWorld { public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Hello, World"); } }

public class HelloWorld { public static void Main() {
System.Console.WriteLine("Hello, World!"); } }

~~~
treehau5
For the world of me, the C# folk keep parroting about how much "better" C# is
than Java, and having worked _extensively_ in both, I can't seem to see it,
especially with Java 8. Maybe if you said C# is "so much better than Java" in
the days of Java 6 I would agree.

I also hear the "faster" argument, but have yet to see any meaningful
benchmarks proving this. In fact I see more showing the opposite, but maybe I
am not looking hard enough?

~~~
richman777
Honestly for me the main difference are the IDEs. I started with Eclipse and
the jump to IntelliJ was huge/great. But using Visual Studio was always a
better experience.

Your point about the difference between the languages is definitely true re:
Java 6. Java stagnated for a few years there while C# was improving with
things I'd actually use. Java 8 is definitely an improvement and ultimately I
think it would boil down to ease of use and familiarity when comparing them.

One thing I don't miss about java is server configuration. At the same time,
I'm definitely relying on IIS doing things behind the scenes I probably don't
know about.

~~~
treehau5
IntelliJ now, at least in my opinion, is unmatched. Intellij feels more like a
lightweight text editor now like a Sublime, but all the power of an IDE,
whereas Visual Studio very much feels like a kitchen sink IDE. Intellij
sometimes gets bogged down when it reindexes your files (which you can
optimize by excluding certain folder), but Visual Studio sometimes brings my
entire system to a screeching halt while I wait for it to do whatever it is it
is doing.

Also, I know this is nitpicky, but having to press CTRL+K, CTRL+C, then
CTRL+K,CTRL+U to comment/uncomment just feels obscene to me. I understand you
can modify the shortcuts, and I am being petty, but CTRL or CMD+/ toggle
comments off/on just feels much better, and that's probably one of the most
used ones for me which is why I am probably nitpicking about it.

