
Where’s The Beef? - firebones
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wheres-the-beef/
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zedpm
I'm amazed that branding is being mentioned as some sort of old-time technique
that's making a comeback; where I live it's always been done. I've helped
brand calves before and got the impression that everyone does it. I wonder if
it's just very large, corporate-type ranches that are skipping the brands.

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alwaysdoit
I don't understand why they didn't/wouldn't brand the cattle.

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s_henry_paulson
In my country it's more common to use electronic tags that can be scanned to
identify the owner.

It would technically be possible to switch the tags.

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rayiner
> the Texas Legislature passed a bill in 2009 to make the theft of even a
> single cow punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

> More recently, in 2011, serial rustler Carl Wade Curry was sentenced to 99
> years in prison for stealing more than 400 head.

It'd be way cheaper for the state to just reimburse the farmers for the stolen
cattle than to imprison people.

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DanAndersen
What would you recommend the penalty be for the actual person who committed
the crime, rather than the state?

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rayiner
What does punishing them accomplish?

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pen2l
This is strange to hear from you (only strange and unexpected, not.. bad).

You've said in the past that only violent criminals should be imprisoned. What
does punishing _them_ accomplish? Are the two really so vastly different? If
we continue down this line, when does punishment _ever_ accomplish anything?
And what does it accomplish? I would be very interested in hearing your
thoughts, or whatever you were going for in the question you just pose now.

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rayiner
I don't think either deterrance nor rehabilitation, the traditional
justifications for criminal punishment, really work. I think the value of
criminal punishment is that it reinforces social norms among all those who
observe or know about the punishment (that and retribution for the victims).
With regards to violent crimes, imprisonment reinforces the social norm that
the state has a monopoly on the use of violence.

I don't think that justification is as important when we're talking about
what's essentially a commercial crime. It doesn't even implicate personal
safety in the same way as say burglary. These cattle are just assets on a
balance sheet.

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pen2l
> I don't think either deterrance nor rehabilitation, the traditional
> justifications for criminal punishment, really work.

I agree that _punishment_ most probably does not end up in rehabilitation. And
I think that should be obvious to everyone, locking up people in unsafe areas,
where others too are ill in mind, where most are folks who've had poor lives
and poor fortunes, it only reinforces the wrong ideals and norms. The
Scandinavian model of rehabilitation probably works better: putting people in
safe homes with counselors who show love instead of hate, and a general
treatment of dignity (one that they were not shown before -- indeed almost all
violent criminals come from broken homes, almost all criminals never had a
positive and loving authority figure to show them the way). Why not break the
cycle and treat them with respect?

> I don't think that justification is as important when we're talking about
> what's essentially a commercial crime. It doesn't even implicate personal
> safety in the same way as say burglary.

I don't like that distinction of violent crimes and non-violent crimes, it's
too easy, it makes it seem like the non-violent crimes are not bad enough. You
know how michaelochurch used to equate managers who gave references to
attempted murder or something to that effect? That was of course silly, but I
can actually kind of appreciate the logic in that... in today's society these
actions essentially make or break a person's life. Not in terms of life and
death, but it makes the difference of a life of dignity and work to possible
homelessness and a complete inability to provide for your family. And further
down in this continuum, there's financial crimes, there's the SV crimes
(inculcating bullshit ideas by way of crafty advertising, . These actions
don't cause immediate physical harm, but overtime they rot lives of so many in
an insidiously disgusting way.

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Vivtek
The article never actually explained where the beef is. The mystery of the
missing cattle is apparently still unsolved - and that's a lot of cow!

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paulpauper
Buying cattle futures seems like a good idea

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maxerickson
What potential change in the cattle market do you believe is not being priced
into the futures?

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DiabloD3
I don't know how much one head of cattle costs, but it sounds like >1000
missing cattle is worth millions. The article doesn't seem to say, unless I
missed it.

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kjasdh1
>With cattle prices at near-record heights, early estimates of the heist
pegged the value of the stolen animals at $1.4 million. Less than a decade
ago, the same thousand-plus cattle would have netted only about $500,000.

