
Babun: a Windows shell - znpy
http://babun.github.io/
======
saboot
Like every discussion about a windows shell, most of the comments are people
saying "Actually I suggest you use
cmder/clink/cygwin/msys/gow/powershell/etc".

An extensive write up on the features, advantages, disadvantages, and the use
cases for each, is sorely needed.

~~~
giancarlostoro
I tried a few of those, so I will share my experience with powershell and with
cygwin as well as Babun which I enjoyed:

* Powershell - Easy to use, typically comes with Windows, or not too complicated to install. Does plenty of unixy commands (ls, mkdir, all come to mind, not sure how many others). Definitely an improvement over plain old cmd, but sometimes it doesn't sync with system variables (could be a PEBKAC issue though) but it is definitely usable.

* Cygwin - Works great, I would say somewhere about the same as Babun (I think it's based off of it if I'm not mistaken, but with it's own tooling, packages are from Cygwin if I'm not mistaken), my only "complaint" was to do with how it installs and what not, I think you're asked to pick a mirror and packages, someone feel free to point out if my assumption is wrong or if this has changed, I think it's an alright thing, but I rather be able to not even think about what I want to install until after I've installed it.

* Babun - I honestly had a great experience using it, and definitely used it frequently enough, you would run a bat file and it would copy itself into your userdata folder when I used it sometime back, and came with plenty of the tools I wanted and it's own toys.

In the end I say try them all for yourself (if you can) and use whatever is
best for you. I would recommend starting out by trying PowerShell before the
rest of these because it already comes with Windows sometimes saving you time,
but that's just a solution for lazy people.

In the end I ended up just going all in for Linux since my experimentation
with these shells. If and when I go back to Windows (it's been half a year now
or more) I'll likely use Babun or just plain PowerShell.

~~~
fphhotchips
The trick with Cygwin is that to install packages you just go back and run the
installer again. So you can "think about what to install after you've
installed it" if you like, but you can also get the ones you know you'll need
(SSH for example) straight off the bat. It's not the most elegant system, but
it's ok.

~~~
ryenus
I have a little batch program which automatically checks for the latest cygwin
setup then run it to check for package updates in a least intrusive way:

[https://gist.github.com/ryenus/4a67039eccda13ee7e1f](https://gist.github.com/ryenus/4a67039eccda13ee7e1f)

------
SriniK
Another alternative I suggest to folks on windows:
[https://github.com/cmderdev/cmder](https://github.com/cmderdev/cmder)

~~~
djKianoosh
cmder using git bash is what I use and it's almost perfect. the only thing
missing is multi-pane inputs. for that I use MobaXTerm.

~~~
djKianoosh
and dont forget git bash inside intellij

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megaman821
Using a UNIX shell on Windows has very few advantages, mainly just familiarity
from those coming from a UNIX shell background. Although it is more verbose,
PowerShell is quite good.

As for the terminal, the Windows default is pretty awful. It is nowhere close
to iTerm in polish or functionality.

~~~
hartez
The default terminal got a bit better in Windows 10. I've been trying to run
stock for the last few weeks (rather than installing ConEmu
([https://conemu.github.io/](https://conemu.github.io/)), which is what I used
on Windows 7) and it's been mostly okay. They've still got a long way to go,
but at least Copy and Paste finally works.

~~~
Apofis
The weird thing is, I came from Windows, migrated to Linux in the past 2 years
or so... been using Windows since 1996 prior... and I can't get used to
Powershell. I just hate it. It's so fucking cumbersome. It definitely feels
like something that was tacked onto a GUI as an after-thought.

------
bingaling
Looks like it fixes the suck (lack of package management) of cygwin, very
nice!

Cmder/conemu [http://cmder.net/](http://cmder.net/) is another nice console
emulator for windows

~~~
cfontes
Been using cmder for 2 years and I can't live without anymore, it's just a
bunch of stuff together but it's great.

------
brillenfux
So Windows users are calling everything a "shell"? The 'terminal-emulator',
the execution environment, the userland, the programming language?

What's next? The graphical user interface? ... Wait ...

Oh Lord ;-)

------
srean
I find Babun slightly laggy on my system, so my go to tool is Msys2
[https://msys2.github.io/](https://msys2.github.io/)

Msys2 is a fork of Cygwin, it does not do away with POSIX emulation, but I
find its package management better than Cygwin's. Quite a few packages are
supported

[https://github.com/Alexpux/MSYS2-packages](https://github.com/Alexpux/MSYS2-packages)

[https://github.com/msys2/MINGW-packages](https://github.com/msys2/MINGW-
packages)

~~~
adamc
Its package management is much better, since it uses pacman, although
sometimes finding the right package is difficult.

------
nilkn
Babun and Vagrant together more or less completely solved the Development
Problem for me on Windows.

I actually don't use Babun very heavily. I think of it as more of a basic,
very pretty Unix-like glue. For the most part I just work inside a Vagrant VM
launched from Babun. My workflow basically consists of using tmux and vim as
an "IDE", so I actually find myself missing very little.

------
Laaw
I've been waiting for a very long time for pact, looking forward to trying it
when I get home.

All I really need is a terminal that, once I ssh to a *nix box, won't get in
the way.

------
temo4ka
Previous discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7740336](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7740336)

------
J_Darnley
Why would I prefer this to cygwin? The detail provided here just makes it look
like cygwin + a preconfigured zsh. The only advantage appears to be the
installer and package manager.

[EDIT] How does this update cygwin when you have programs running that use it?
Do you explain to newbies what BLODA is? The one thing I would want
preconfigured is sshd which this doesn't appear to provide.

~~~
tjohns
Having just experimented with Babun over the weekend... the package manager is
a pretty big deal. It used to be that you had to re-run the Cygwin installer
whenever you wanted to add a package. That's just silly.

Outside of that, the biggest difference is it avoids Cygwin's complicated
setup process. You run the installer script, it creates a ~/.babun directory,
and then it just works. No need to commit to a list of packages at install
time. It gives you a very reasonable set of defaults, and if you need more,
you just "pact install" it.

Supposedly it has a self-update mechanism that will take care of Cygwin
updates. I haven't had it installed long enough to see it in action.

And no, they don't explain what BLOADA is. :) It's also a little tricky to run
rebaseall, since the rebaseall tool doesn't like zsh running. (The workaround,
btw: "cygstart dash", then proceed with rebaseall.)

------
tracker1
Honestly, I just use conemu with bash (installed with gitextensions/msysgit)
in windows... except for the /c/... drive starting the path, it's really
decent... the paths are a little different bit it pretty much works the same
everywhere I need it. I prefix ~/bin/ to my path and setup whatever I need in
there.

------
Giako
I personally use ConEmu + babun for my everyday work activity on Windows
system. I grow accustomed to it and it's a wonderful replacement when I have
to do some lightweight Unixy thing without powering up a VM and when my Ubuntu
laptop is out of reach.

------
ake1
i'm forced to use windows as a host to my dev environment at work and i have
yet to find a fast enough console/shell. even when you remove plugins and
whatever else babun provides to the standard zsh setup it's still not fast
enough to do simple things such as cd with some tab-completion a couple of
times a second as i'd normally do at home. the closest thing to somewhat
useful i've found is "git for windows" but it too sometimes get stuck
sometimes just changing directories and tab-completing. i'm using a reasonably
new i5 thinkpad and i don't think close to instant feedback in a text-only
environment is too much to ask.

~~~
solotronics
Have you considered running a linux VM on virtualbox? I do that in situations
I am forced to run windows.

------
outdooricon
Does this one work well on the Surface Pro 3? It's been frustrating with other
because either they don't handle the high-density well or they aren't touch
compatible...

------
wnevets
I'm quite happy using mintty that comes with git for windows. Everytime I try
one of these shells for windows I just go back.

------
redwards510
Chrome will not let me download the zip. It is blocked. Possibly because it is
uncommon?

~~~
radnor
[https://github.com/babun/babun/issues/464](https://github.com/babun/babun/issues/464)

The zip contains a handful of scripts and executables so I think Chrome is
being overly cautious.

------
lolptdr
babun does everything i need to do, but does anyone have altnerative with
tabbed windows? is babun even capable of that?

~~~
zufallsheld
You can use babun together with cmder[0] (which is based on conemu and can do
tabs). Just today I installed both and I'm pretty happy so far. To use babun
in cmder, follow this[1] short explanation.

[0] [http://cmder.net/](http://cmder.net/) [1]
[https://babun.github.io/faq.html#_how_do_i_integrate_babun_w...](https://babun.github.io/faq.html#_how_do_i_integrate_babun_with_conemu)

------
beastman82
great name

------
s73v3r
I've used it before, when stuck on Windows for work, and it's definitely a
nice project. However, there still seems to be some kind of impedance mismatch
when trying to use a UNIX type shell with a Windows OS. Things just don't feel
right.

Still, it's about as close as I've gotten to having something like iTerm and
zsh on Windows, and it keeps my sanity, as it means I don't have to use the
atrocious Windows command line.

------
nkhodyunya
Why should I prefer this to Powershell?

------
symlinkk
just learn powershell instead of trying to hack UNIX into windows, or just
install Linux

~~~
tjohns
Powershell is great, if what you're doing is scripting or trying to work with
a .NET API. However, it's not so great when you want to work with a non-
Windows host or work on cross-platform software. Every modern OS _except_
Windows has a Bash-like shell and environment.

It's also missing the huge ecosystem of *nix command line apps. I couldn't see
myself living on a machine with Powershell and nothing else, even though this
is something Linux users can easily do.

Cygwin (and Babun) help with both of these.

