

A Bullet That Could Make 3-D Printed Guns Practical Weapons - Fjolsvith
http://www.wired.com/2014/11/atlas-314-3-d-printed-guns-bullets

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Niksko
This kind of worries me. Not because I'm worried about 3D printed guns killing
me or other people. If somebody wants to kill other people, they're probably
going to do it. This doesn't really make it much easier.

What worries me is that this will be used to regulate 3D printing. As somebody
with a 3D printer, and as somebody who is excited about the potential of 3D
printers, this terrifies me. It's exactly things like this that could be used
to incite mass hysteria and banning of 3D printing, especially since 3D
printing doesn't yet have wide consumer adoption or appeal.

~~~
nether
Did you know that when they erected a suicide barrier at a bridge in
Washington, suicides in the state dropped? People lacking the means didn't
just turn to other methods. They quit altogether. Why do we pretend that the
ease of doing something has no effect on the likelihood of it being carried
out?

~~~
tomschlick
Over the past 20 years gun regulations have been eased and the number of
weapons sold has skyrocketed. However in that time the violent crime has gone
down.

~~~
virtuabhi
Correlation != causation

~~~
tomschlick
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the common thought would be that more
guns = more crime. But according to the latest FBI study thats not the case.
The cause of the dropping crime is due to many factors, but it definitely has
not gone up even though there is greater access to firearms.

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olefoo
I like the lateral thinking on display here. From what I've seen the most
successful adopters of the new wave of fabrication technologies are adept at
solving problems by looking at them in a way that is "upside-down and
backwards" compared to how most people would.

The fact that these bullet casings are milled out of steel rods isn't that big
of a deal, if you have the right CNC mill you could automate that too.

Despite the antics of defense distributed I don't think printed guns are that
big of a deal in and of themselves, but the idea that someone could be
creating untraceable weapons is the worrisome part.

It wouldn't surprise me if the moral panic over custom fabricated guns were
used to build support for DRM requirements on mainstream printers. But the
push for controlling fabrication technologies is going to come from
established economic interests wanting to keep extracting rents from the rest
of us, regardless of the fact that the realities that created their business
models have changed in fundamental ways.

And just wait until molecular fabrication technologies become cheap enough
that average people can generate any molecule they choose just by picking it
from a catalog. That's when the sewage overflow will really intersect with the
turboprop intake.

~~~
Crito
Anybody that is concerned by printed or "untraceable" firearms should go on
YouTube and look up the videos of shotguns that teenagers in the Appalachians
have been making out of plumbing parts from hardware stores for decades.

Give me $50 and access to a Home Depot I can _legally_ make a shotgun in an
afternoon. That includes labor costs, though I keep the gun. Transferring it
would be illegal.

Since I'm bored:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OoBwLVXpFc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OoBwLVXpFc)
Obviously anybody with any sense would just go to Walmart and buy a proper
shotgun. But obviously anybody with any sense wouldn't use a 3d printed
plastic gun either.

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noonespecial
So he machines a "barrel" into the round (presumably with a lathe or mill) and
it takes _an hour_ for each round. So why not just machine a little metal
barrel for your plastic gun? Or just take your same machine tool and make a
metal gun? That would be because people have been doing that for 200 years.
You have to say the magic words "3d printed gun!!!!" to get a magazine article
about yourself.

~~~
Crito
His "thing" is using emerging technology (3d printing) to get people to
realize the current state of things (it being trivial to manufacture your own
firearm).

Many people believe that it is currently difficult to make a gun, and will not
believe you when told otherwise. However when you give them an excuse to be
wrong without being ignorant (emerging technology), _then_ they listen. 3d
printers allow people to acknowledge that it is easy to make a gun, _without_
forcing them to admit that it always been for the past century.

~~~
noonespecial
This I consider to be a Bad Thing. The reason being that by allowing them this
comfortable linus-blanket of ignorance, we give them an opportunity to vilify
and regulate 3d printers despite the 3d printer being no more important to the
construction of the workings of the firearm than hammers, screwdrivers or bits
of wood. The 3d printer is part of this deadly firearm the same way "Lucky
Charms" are part of this nutritious breakfast.

I do NOT want to be anywhere near the "war on 3d printing", "permits" and
inspections for 3d printer owners, county "stickers" for my stepper motors or
anything even remotely along those lines.

~~~
Crito
I just realized that the guy the article is about does not seem to actually be
affiliated with Defense Distributed. What I said applies to Cody
Wilson/Defense Distrubuted, not necessarily the guy the article is actually
about.

Anyway, Cody Wilson is first and foremost a gun guy, not a 3d printing guy. 3d
printing may very well be a casualty of his political activism, but his
priorities are such that this possibility likely seems worth it to him.

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jamesaguilar
Part of me is somewhat worried. Part of me recognizes that a 3D printed
firearm is hardly very practical, consider it's easy enough to get a real
firearm, even for convicted criminals. (I'm speaking of the US here.)

What keeps people in the US from going on shooting rampages is not the
difficulty of getting guns. It's the fact that most people don't want to go on
shooting rampages. And while I'd much prefer it if guns were banned in this
country, in the end, I'm not planning to lose any sleep over it. I'm far more
likely to die in a car accident, even without adjusting for risk factors like
where I live or my lack of involvement in criminal activity. So if I want to
worry about something, I'll focus on driving more carefully.

Anyway, there's precious little you can do to stop 3D printed firearms from
eventually being available. Betting against progress is rarely safe,
especially in this domain where it's pretty obvious how things are going to
go.

~~~
drmilsurp
I just don't understand the appeal. As far as firearms go, the last thing I
want is one that can not be relied upon. I get that solving technical
challenges is fun but in this case, to what end? To make practical home-built
firearms? Boys in Afghanistan are making practical ak-47's with little more
than a file, scrap and tenacity. If you want to build a firearm (semi-auto) at
home in the US it isn't even illegal.

~~~
refurb
_If you want to build a firearm (semi-auto) at home in the US it isn 't even
illegal._

Incorrect. The only limitation is you can't make an NFA weapon (automatic,
etc) or build it out of more than 10 imported parts.

 _" Firearms may be lawfully made by persons who do not hold a manufacturer’s
license under the GCA provided they are not for sale or distribution and the
maker is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. "_[1]

[1][http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-
top...](http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-
top-10-qas.pdf)

~~~
jMyles
So you are disputing that it's not illegal? Or something?

~~~
adrianpike
I think they likely misparsed the parent comment. :)

~~~
refurb
Haha... yup, misread the parent!

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alricb
In a way, with this, each bullet is like a miniature percussion cap musket.

Ammunition robustness isn't only important for plastic guns: witness the
explosion of an 1895 Lee Navy, where the use of relatively thin .30-40 brass
(since original 6 mm ammo is not available) is suspected to be the culprit [1]

[1]: [http://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-
safety/](http://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/)

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Wogef
If you are going for the "shell as a barrel" solution you might as well
maximize the utility and make it either silenced (captive piston) ammo:
[http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1812](http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1812)

Or make it electronically fired multishot using a superposed load like the
Metalstorm:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Storm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Storm)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superposed_load](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superposed_load)

That being said, while metal home use printers won't be feasible anytime soon,
FDM plastics are getting much, much stronger (Ulthem etc) and being released
to prosumer market at an impressive rate. Having a barrel stand up to a dozen
shots or so will not be a problem for long.

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ChuckMcM
Well that is a non-novel solution :-) Basically the cartridge is the barrel. A
much more novel solution would be a barrel that was a rail gun, then just
recharge it to refire. Of course we can't really store enough energy in a
capacitor or battery that we can in gun powder yet. .22 caliber CO2 fired guns
would be more dangerous (they could have longer plastic barrels and be more
accurate.) But all of this simply strokes the survivalist bent that folks have
to somehow come out on top when the world comes crashing to an end.

I am much less worried about a nerd trying to mug me with a plastic gun than I
am with the wrong person getting hold of a UAV with a shotgun [1].

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYz_D89BLUg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYz_D89BLUg)

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jrometty
I see a lot of fear in the comments; the worry is that 3D printing will be
regulated.

I find it terrible that pragmatism will be skimmed over by the very liberals I
associate with who will use "new 3d printed bullets" as political ammunition.

~~~
CamperBob2
It's almost as if modern nanny statism and traditional authoritarian statism
are just two sides of the same coin... or two manifestations of the same
personality disorder.

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thesz
I think it is aligned to Metal Storm tech:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Storm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Storm)

At least I can see how they intersect - in both cases barrel is a round.

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Sophistifunk
A gun with a 2 inch-long barrel is going to be pretty useless at not much more
than a dozen feet. Good for mugging somebody I guess, but not self-defense or
fighting the next revolution. And you can mug somebody with a knife.

~~~
foundersgrid
That's now. The 3D printing landscape will look very different in a few years
time.

~~~
Sophistifunk
The rest of the gun doesn't matter. A two inch barrel leaves almost no space
for the propellant to expand before it escapes containment (and all its
remaining energy is wasted), and no chance for any useful rifling.

~~~
refurb
I agree the lack of rifling doesn't help, but what's wrong with a 2" barrel?
There are snub-nosed revolvers with barrels just as short.

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PhasmaFelis
Gosh, thanks, guys! More paranoid backlash and stupid regulations are just
what the 3D printing industry needed!

