
Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research - anythingnonidin
https://www.maps.org/news/media/7012-press-release-pineapple-fund-offers-$4-million-matching-grant-to-maps
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Chernobog
If MDMA were to become approved medicine in the US, I see it as an important
milestone when it comes to getting rid of misguided classifications of drugs
as having no medical value even though there are both research and anecdotal
evidence suggesting otherwise. I am certain that a change in the US will have
impacts on other countries as well.

I donated last summer because I sincerely believe this research will have a
huge positive impact on many peoples lives if MDMA were to become medicine.
Seeing this news I have decided to donate again.

~~~
PineappleFund
Thanks for your donation! (that will be matched :)

The Phase 2 trials and FDA's breakthrough therapy designation along shows
strong medical value of MDMA, especially in a clinical context with
psychotherapy sessions and a trained therapist.

I hope this starts a renaissance in the use of psychedelics to treat, long
term (with short term drug applications), many mental conditions.

~~~
09bjb
Agreed! I've set up matching donations for your matching donations among my
friends. Thank you for supporting this cause...I think a lot of mental
conditions go ignored and un-healed as a consequence of not understanding
these substances well (both the benefits and side effects).

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everdev
This is fantastic news. MDMA and psychedelics when taken in the right setting
with the right support people can be incredibly healing. Right now it's
primarily focused on PTSD and other traumas, but it can be a powerful
experience for improving relationships or personal growth as well.

~~~
ClassyJacket
I can anecdotally confirm this. I took MDMA under pretty normal party
circumstances and honestly it was life changing. I've found it easier to be
friendly, talkative, relaxed, and positive, even weeks later. I'm interested
to see how long these effects last. My intrusive thoughts have been lowered
and my overall outlook is more positive.

I don't have PTSD, but I do have depression, anxiety, and unofficially, I
probably lie on the autism spectrum.

Can I prove anything with my sample size of one with plenty of confounding
variables? Of course not. But does it make me personally believe the studies
that have indicated it can be a good treatment for mental disorders are
valuable and true? Absolutely.

I strongly believe that safe, controlled administration of pure, clean MDMA is
something every adult should have the opportunity to legally try, especially
in cases where evidence supports benefit to a psychological condition. And
more research should happen. The mindset of "all drugs are heroin" has got to
go.

I'm not advocating people taking pills they bought on the street, but I do
support legalising of drugs that, when pure and controlled in dose like
pharmaceutical medicine, don't cause a significant number of deaths or
violence - such as MDMA and marijuana.

I strongly support destigmatization of drugs and more research, and the
breakdown of the black and white border of "the government decides which drugs
are good and which drugs are evil and everything else is for violent
crackheads."

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acchow
Have plenty of friends that have overcome social anxiety they've had their
entire lives with just one night of MDMA.

~~~
ClassyJacket
It honestly feels like this is what has happened. I have to talk on the phone
all day at my job and was not suited to it at all, and I won't pretend I
suddenly enjoy it, but now I find it way easier to get thru than I did before.

I'll probably do it again. I just wish there were more studies so I could know
how often is safe and optimal to take it.

~~~
tpm
On the very safe side: Not more often than every 6 weeks. Ideally not more
than 15 doses in lifetime (that's what MAPS guidelines say). Stop once you are
sad beyond the 'blue Tuesday' (not everyone has a blue Tuesday, but after
repeated use it usually starts to happen and gets worse). There is quite some
literature, sadly not nicely structured and concentrated in one place as far
as I know.

~~~
heavenlyblue
I belive what you're saying isn't true and neither can I find a direct link to
a MAPS guideline saying anything about the 15 doses in a lifetime.

In my experience I had blue mondays way worse on my first 3 times, and then
I've got to the point where I am no longer blue on the days after. That would
be my 6 times over a 5 year period.

~~~
tpm
I would have to search for that, but limiting your total cumulative dose makes
sense in light of research showing adverse brain changes in longtime and/or
heavy users.

The 6 weeks number is more a rule of thumb. For some it's longer, for others
shorter. In the beginning, it may not matter, but if you browse drug forums
for a while, you'll see the pattern 'don't do it too often' emerge.

6 times over a 5 year period looks quite safe. I have some friends who have
used MDMA more than that and some of them started to have longer 'sad' or
'depressed' periods, sometimes stretching into months. Again, it would be
great if there was an authoritative manual for all of this, but I don't think
something like that exists.

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noinput
This is fantastic. I recently helped a few of the NGOs selected by Pineapple
get their tech together to accept the funds. It gave me a chance to learn more
(as much is public) about the fund and love hearing about bolder moves like
this to make such an impact. Being close to the NGOs that did receive the
funds, I can say first hand just how much of a difference this macro-funding
is making for real orgs that care so much about change. @Pine thank you for
giving a damn.

~~~
PineappleFund
Thanks Jim! Let me know if there's anything I can do to make things easier for
the NGOs!

Some days, I still wake up and I'm a little bit astonished about the impact
that my bitcoins can have. I certainly would've never predicted this when I
first got into bitcoin.

~~~
justifier
do the funds sent to these recipients remain btc and are leveraged against as
an asset or are they converted to fiat?

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noahdesu
From the press release:

"If this funding challenge is met in gifts, grants, and multi-year pledges,
MAPS will have raised sufficient funds to complete its Phase 3 trials."

That statement is huge. The idea that MAPS has successfully taken a compound
through the entire FDA approval process using only donations is kinda amazing.
They received breakthrough status with the FDA, they are starting phase 3
trials, and the only thing holding them back is an amount of money that would
be a drop in the bucket for a big pharma company.

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veb
Pineapple Fund is seriously awesome, really warms my heart at the great things
that they're funding. :)

~~~
PineappleFund
Thanks :)

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09bjb
This is fantastic news! I did an actual fistpump seeing this in the HN list
this morning. In my anonymous, just-another-person-on-the-internet opinion,
there isn't a lot out there that holds more potential for humanity at the
moment than furthering our understanding (and consequent _responsible_ use of)
psychedelics.

A huge thank you to Pine for supporting healing-driven science and noticing
that MAPS is doing this particularly difficult work with efficiency and
integrity.

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blhack
It's been said a bunch of times, but it should be said a bunch more times:
what pineapplefund is doing is incredible. I can only hope that is how all of
us would react to that sort of windfall.

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kabes
Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in
your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-
called tuesday blues. So how come these people in these treatments aren't
getting more depressed after their few hours of excitement?

~~~
qwerty456127
> Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in
> your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-
> called tuesday blues

Usually MDMA has absolutely no observable backlash (it may still harm your
brain though, even if you don't feel it, I don't know if it will or not) if
you don't take it more often than once in 3 months (or 1 month if you insist,
but absolutely never more often), avoid taking too much of it, take enough
piracetam, magnesium and antioxidants (acetyl-l-carnitine, acetyl-l-cysteine,
vitamins E and C, lipoic acid, CoQ10, green tea extract, grape seed extract
etc) before, during and after the MDMA trip, take L-tryptophan+piracetam after
the trip, smoke some weed (but don't do it in advance - this can cause a panic
attack and nausea), drink enough water, sleep well and take
L-tryptophan+piracetam again when you get up. What will follow is usually
going to be a rather pleasant state called "afterglow". Taking emoxypine,
piracetam, magnesium and St. John's wort during the days after to actually
restore the receptors can also be a good idea. I have also heard eating some
psilocybin shrooms can prevent MDMA hangover too but I doubt combining
psychedelics is a good idea for everybody.

DISCLAIMER: The above is a piece of theoretical knowledge provided for harm-
reduction purposes only and not even proven scientifically (I'd be glad if the
researchers could consider checking it). Use it at your own risk. Don't take
what is not legal in your country. I don't recommend taking MDMA without a
prescription though I do recommend to consider harm-reduction measures if you
decide to take it. Anyway, make sure you are not allergic to any of the
substances you are going to take, are not taking any drugs that may interact
with them and don't have any other contraindications.

~~~
kabes
You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then giving
a list of supplements to reduce the backlash...

It's proven that your brain down-regulates serotonin after taking MDMA, which
can last a couple of days (or even longer). What's not proven is those
supplements you mention. They are the go-to advice you find on websites like
rollsafe etc. but that's all based on shaky science (small control groups, non
peer-reviewed papers, tests on mice that might not reflect on humans etc.).
Basically MDMA has not been researched well enough on humans (so thanks
Pineapple fund for improving this situation). There's also no evidence that
supports 'afterglow' and the supplements you mention are mainly antioxidants
(and magnesium to reduce jaw clenching) that will reduce the oxidation in the
brain, but doesn't affect the serotonin levels. Another good way to reduce
oxidation is to keep your body cooled (but hard to do at parties). Taking
5-HTP the days after might have an effect on serotonin levels, but again,
research is lacking.

~~~
qwerty456127
> You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then
> giving a list of supplements to reduce the backlash...

What I am saying is there will certainly be some backlash if you don't do
anything to prevent it but you can (or you can not - sure I can't say these
advices will help everybody, perhaps some of these may even harm somebody if
they have some specific contraindications) effectively prevent about 99% of
it. Perhaps my grammar is not perfect but I hope the idea is fairly easy to
get.

> What's not proven is those supplements you mention.

Sure, not proven any credible way. Hopefully the researchers will read this
thread, take these in consideration and prove or disprove some parts.

> tests on mice

In fact there have been quite enough "testing" on humans though it's neither
scientifically clean (no double-blind placebo-controlled trials, no large
control groups observed, no measurements etc) nor official enough for obvious
reasons. Everything is based on personal experience people share anonymously,
but believe me - though not formally credible nor systematic this data is very
far from being entirely mythical and useless. It's absolutely worth testing by
researchers we are talking about and, well... by unaccredited enthusiasts who
are going to to engage in the research on their own perhaps.

> There's also no evidence that supports 'afterglow'

Sure, no evidence, just reportedly-systematic experience of anonymous
individuals. Let's just say it may cause this state, not that it necessarily
will.

> and magnesium to reduce jaw clenching

Magnesium is not just to reduce jaw clenching, it's also an NDMA antagonist,
known to prevent amphetamine-type drugs tolerance. And it is also an important
electrolyte that you may loose if you dink, sewat and pee excessively.

> keep your body cooled (but hard to do at parties)

MDMA is, arguably, much more fun and much more safe to take at home together
with just the one you love. I especially discourage taking it at parties and
especially mixing it with alcohol.

> but doesn't affect the serotonin levels... Taking 5-HTP the days after...

That's why I recommend L-tryptophan. Tough less-famous than 5-HTP
(5-Hydroxytryptophan) for a number of reasons, it can be considered a more
natural and more safe alternative to 5-HTP. L-tryptophan is the essential
amino-acid naturally meant to be consumed regularly (it occurs naturally in
many foods and also available in pure form as an over-the-counter supplement)
your body uses to produce the amounts of 5-HTP (and then serotonin) it needs
from it.

Also St. John's wort is known to upregulate serotonin receptors and increase
of serotonin (!!!up to potentially life-threatening levels if combined with
other serotonin-boosting substances so never take it together with MDMA, only
the day after!!!).

Piracetam and emoxypine are not only antioxidants (in fact I don't even know
if piracetam is an antioxidant at all) but nootropics that may improve brain
blood flow, oxygen consumption and synaptic transmission, modulate the
receptor complexes of the brain membranes by increasing their binding ability,
stabilize biomembranes (i.e. membrane structures of blood cells - erythrocytes
and thrombocytes during their haemolysis or mechanical injury accompanied by
the formation of free radicals), have neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory
action, change the monoamine level and increases the dopamine content in the
brain etc.

> but again, research is lacking.

That's why it's so great to read about the ladies and gentlemen at the
Pineapple Fund going to fund the research and that MAPS is undertaking it. And
that's why it's so important to share every potentially valuable idea on the
subject with them so they can use it in the research.

There are 2 reasons I am writing this here:

1\. I hope this can help people (though I am not sure it will help everybody)
to save their health and prevent unpleasant experiences (as far as I've heard
overwhelming majority of people who try MDMA experiences rather severe
backlashes - this suggests they are doing it wrong and cause damage to their
brains).

2\. I hope this can provide the researches with ideas to start with when
looking for safety measures to be proven scientifically. Surely "making sure
that your schedule is clear of obligations the next day" is always a great
idea but I think the stuff I've described above (including the previous
commentary) should better be used too.

~~~
_acme
Piracetam is not approved by the FDA for any medical use and it is not
permitted to be sold as a dietary supplement, so it can neither be prescribed
nor sold OTC. It may be possible to import it, but that's legally
questionable; then again, if you're using MDMA, you're not concerned with
questionable legality.

~~~
qwerty456127
In this case the researchers ought to test it too so it could be approved by
the FDA together with MDMA because piracetam alone makes HUGE difference. If
you are going to take MDMA and can choose only one supplement to use to
protect your brain from adverse effects - that is to be piracetam (of course
something better may exist but I have never heard of anything better so far).
I can't confirm this scientifically but I could bet whoever has tried it (or
at least the majority of them) will tell you this is true.

By the way I live in Europe and have been taking piracetam (it is an approved
medicine available at every drugstore here, over-the-counter in some
countries, on prescription in others) every day (making just occasional pauses
for a month or two) during about 15 years already and man it's just so great I
don't want to live in a country where I can't get it easily. In my opinion
(based on my own long-term systematic experience with it) piracetam is an
essential for brain fitness, good quality of life, physical, creative,
spiritual, educational and professional self-realization. And I have never had
a headache during these years (except slight headakes that I had a couple of
times after having drank a way too much alcohol) although I used to have
headache almost every day when I was a child and wasn't taking piracetam!

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jonwachob91
One big issue not addressed in this post, how is MAPS differentiating between
PTSD and BLAST[1] in this CT? They have identical symptoms, but one is
psychological and one is physical. Being unable to differentiate them could
cause some SERIOUS error in the results. Have you thought about how you are
going to address that?

[1]BLAST is a traumatic brain injury similar to CTE. It is caused by
shockwaves emanating from explosives. Symptoms are near identical to PTSD.

~~~
DenisM
One could select for people who were not subject to an actual explosion?

~~~
jonwachob91
If their target audience is PTSD patients, they are looking at a primarily
veterans as participants. It's pretty hard to determine if a veteran was
exposed to an explosion or not.

~~~
_acme
An enormous number of people suffer from PTSD who are not veterans. People who
have been raped, witnessed crimes, etc. could all suffer PTSD. Trauma can be
almost anything if it causes a negative impact (e.g., depression, anxiety) in
the future, and persons suffering from depression or anxiety as a result of
such trauma would likely be diagnosed with comorbid PTSD.

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dekhn
i for one welcome our new crypto-currency funded drug research clinical
trials. Please try to be as ethical and scrupulous when doing your research as
possible: it's important that we have high quality scientific results,
regardless of whether they support our hypotheses, so that people trust the
outcomes.

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mnx
This seems like evidence towards Gwern's theory that pineapple fund is a
retired dark net drug dealer...

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
It could be, but I think the purpose of a fund like this should be to target
organizations that are 'unpalatable' to other donation sources, and MAPS is a
great example.

~~~
mnx
Oh yeah, I'm all for it. Just noticing.

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ringaroundthetx
Very nice, on reddit people suggested they donate the interest alone like
University endowments do

They could buy a bunch of masternodes because those are dividend producing
assets in the cryptocurrency space

The yields should be pretty good

~~~
acchow
Saving lives, changing lives, moving science forward - all better than 6-10%
returns.

Kind of the whole point of charities is that the work they do is a better
return than the market. Otherwise, every charity would be an endowment and
they would just consume the 6-10% annual returns for their work.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
A lot of charities do like 5% nonprofit stuff and 95% for profit

Despite ideals it makes your rebuttal moot

~~~
lkbm
If _all_ charities do that, his point is moot. Or if the most effective
charities do that, his point is moot.

Which charities do this, and why should we believe they're the most effective?

~~~
ringaroundthetx
> and why should we believe they're the most effective?

Whoever gave you that idea?

That practice has nothing to do with how the world is changed.

I believe most charities practice this, I saw a presentation on it with a
bunch of accredited investors, don't have the source.

You can't will your alternate reality into existence.

~~~
lkbm
> > and why should we believe they're the most effective? > Whoever gave you
> that idea?

1\. This quesiton makes no sense. 2. The question is how high the returns are
--do they exceed the returns of investment. That would depend on the
effectiveness of the charity.

> I believe most charities practice this, I saw a presentation on it with a
> bunch of accredited investors, don't have the source.

Charities report their opex. I've never seen one listed as 95%. Most are <10%.
Some, like Mozilla and ACLU are split between Foundation and Corporation, but
most are not.

> You can't will your alternate reality into existence.

So...you made some claims. I asked for evidence. You refused. I provided
counter-evidence.

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling now. Or arguing in bad faith, at minimum.

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throwaway_de2af
[unpopular opinion, criticism is welcome]

People who build cheap cars/smartphones/clothes/food/anything usually don't
care about poor people at all, even if poor people benefit the most from those
cheap protducts/services.

They care about profits in $$$

$$$ incentives bring the most value to poor people, so the best motivation I
can think of for improving society is money-making businesses .

~~~
ddorian43
wrong thread ?

