

Priceline.com get $1000+ CPM for deceptive links in the checkout process - petewarden
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/11/18/ben-steins-sleazy-paymasters-cont/

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dkokelley
The problem is that consumers have given control of their debit cards over to
the merchants. When they do this, they (possibly inadvertently) give them a
blank checkbook. A credit/debit card should be more like a virtual wallet than
a blank checkbook. I would love merchants to have to ask my - _not my banks_
\- permission each time they wanted to charge me.

The system right now relies on the honesty of the merchants. If all charges
had to go through the consumer's approval first, then I don't think we'd see
much of the free credit report scams anymore. Instead of having to call up a
recurring (and unsolicited) biller, just decline all payments to the merchant
and let the merchant figure out that they're not getting paid.

If I had the means, I think I would start a Bank 2.0. It would have a killer
web interface, charge authentication through cell phones or control panel, and
instead of dealing with loans and interest, I would probably make make money
through Visa charges.

~~~
clawrencewenham
I had the same idea. I figured that VoIP made it cheap enough for a computer
to call me whenever someone tried to charge my card, and I would have to enter
a PIN on the phone before it authorized it.

If the timeout on POS card terminals is long enough (about 30-60 seconds),
it's enough time for a computer to call my cell, read me the amount to be
charged, then wait for me to enter a PIN (not necessarily the same PIN you use
on an ATM).

A bank could offer a web interface for me to authorize a list of "always
allow" merchants and their charge limits so I don't have to re-authorize
supermarkets and recurring subscriptions.

And finally, an interface to list "always deny" merchants.

I like the idea of cancelling an unwanted service by shutting off the flow of
money, and then calling their customer support to notify them.

In fact, I think that should be a basic human right. I shouldn't have to argue
with a Customer Retention Department (something that pisses me off just in the
concept alone), I should just inform them (or let my bank inform them), that
I'm no longer their customer.

Me: "Hi, I've cancelled my account."

Them: "I'm sorry, I'll have to transfer you to a customer retention
representative."

Me: "No, you don't understand. I've already shut off payments, I'm just giving
you a courtesy call. Bye."

~~~
sh1mmer
I've done that last thing in the UK, however I had to do it via the fraud
dept. I had to report unwanted chargers from an e-tailer I'd "cancelled" my
account online with as fraud.

However Barclays did make it a reasonably painless and speedy task
(comparatively).

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breck
One of the real problems is that often the card companies make it hard to
dispute things.

I used to get billed $1 per month on my PayPal account for something called
"YOURSAVINGSCLUB". This went on for like 6 or 7 months. I called their number
to "cancel" whatever it was they were charging me for, and they said they
required my credit card number to cancel my account. Given I already knew they
were dishonest, I wasn't going to give them my number again, just in case they
didn't actually have it and relied on a third party for the billing.

Anyway, I tried to resolve it instead through PayPal but to do so involved a
Fax machine, and everytime I started the process I gave up because it wasn't
worth the time for the one dollar.

Luckily I think PayPal finally figured it out and cut them off, as I haven't
been charged in 6 months or so.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Paypal may make it hard to deal with, but I've never had issues disputing
charges on an actual credit card.

~~~
noodle
the paypal EULA involves waiving rights to dispute paypal charges. i've known
people to try, who got punished/billed/fined for trying to do so.

i try and avoid using paypal whenever possible, especially for recurring
billing.

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condor
The actual staff report linked in that article is well worth the read.

These companies are basically running shady private tax schemes. No value-
added.

I'm glad the senate report provides a list of the 'partner' commerce companies
that have made over $1MM using these schemes. I'll be thinking twice about
giving any of them my business.
[PDF][http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/111609EXHIBITSTOSTA...](http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/111609EXHIBITSTOSTAFFREPORT.pdf)

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hristov
It is amazing to me how credit card companies allow these scams to exist. If
somebody does charges people without their consent, they are bound to get a
lot of chargebacks and this is just a headache for the cc companies. Also, it
is not in the credit card companies interest to allow the credit cards to be
conduits for scams.

My parents used to have a business and even though it was a completely
legitimate business they were constantly scared of chargebacks. They knew that
even a small percentage of chargebacks can cause them trouble with the CC
companies and offerred their customers money back whenever possible to avoid
chargebacks. And again this was an honest business selling real tangible
things to people that knew they were buying those things, not some online
scam.

But now you see some companies use credit card billing for nothing but scams
and somehow they are allowed to keep their merchant accounts.

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Alex3917
The background of the Priceline guy is in using game theory and psychological
tricks to maximize the addictiveness of slot machines. That's the whole point
of Priceline, to apply these tricks to online shopping to maximize the
revenue. This is pretty obvious going in, and maybe the site is deceptive
above and beyond that, but is this really a surprise? It seems like they've
crossed the line here and this should be fixed, but you really shouldn't be
shopping there in the first place.

~~~
chime
> but you really shouldn't be shopping there in the first place.

What makes you say that? I wanted to rent a small car for a week and not one
site quoted under $300. Priceline quote came in at $120 from the exact same
car companies. It worked out great for me. Of course, I was very cautious
about not signing up for 10 other things.

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psranga
Does Adblock Plus hide these offers? I don't remember ever seeing anything
like this.

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ivenkys
As always, the clarion call on the internet remains - Caveat Emptor - Buyer
beware.

~~~
petewarden
The problem is that it's extremely hard to know you are a buyer at all. They
put a lot of effort into concealing you'll get charged, and since they
silently get your credit card details from the hosting site, you don't get the
usual 'enter numbers and agree' page to signal you're entering into a
transaction.

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mbreese
Is there any legitimate reason for a company to pass your payment information
onto another "partner" (aside from a payment processor like PayPal, etc)? I
can't think of one.

If there isn't, the simple thing would be to just ban this practice.

~~~
petewarden
I agree - the FTC has effecticley banned this 'data pass' practice for tele-
marketers since 2003, they should extend it to websites too.

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fnid
Well, I don't trust priceline anymore. I used to recommend them to everyone,
but not anymore. I booked hotels and rental cars frequently when I traveled
and I need another one soon, but I think I might not use them this time.

