
A bug is found in Ecuador Embassy in London - znowi
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegrafo.com.ec%2Factualidad%2Fitem%2Fmicrofono-oculto-es-hallado-en-embajada-de-ecuador-en-londres.html
======
jandrewrogers
Embassies are routinely bugged by myriad parties so I would not read too much
into this. It is the expected background noise of working in an embassy. It is
the selection bias of people paying attention now because there is a story
that people are interested in. There is a reason they constantly search
embassies for bugs.

Also, most sophisticated buggings are usually difficult to detect even against
a sophisticated adversary. All of which suggests to me that finding this bug
in the Ecuador embassy is likely to be coincidence.

~~~
ghayes
I agree with your statement of selection bias.

For a good recent read on this subject, I'd suggest _Foreign Policy: New
Flash, States Spy on Each Other_
[http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/01/news_flash_st...](http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/01/news_flash_states_spy_on_each_other)

~~~
rtpg
The strangest thing about recent leaks is how people are shocked that the NSA
spies on foreign countries. What are they supposed to be doing?

~~~
coldtea
They are supposed to do it for national security reasons (hence the name, one
would presume). On actual enemies or potential enemies.

Spying on EU politicians, corporations, trade negotiations and such is not
that. It's using spying to get a leverage and exploit/blackmail/bride/take
advantage of other countries.

Except if you redefine "national security" to mean: each and every way a
country can exploit and fuck with other countries.

------
ChrisAntaki
Cell phones can be turned on remotely, and used as listening devices as well.
This is why Edward Snowden told his HK lawyers to place theirs in a
refrigerator.

Source:
[http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html](http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html)

~~~
femto
Given that it is technically feasible, I'd assume it's possible for a mobile
phone base station to geofence something like an embassy, or park bench, and
have all mobile phones entering the geofenced perimeter go into surveillance
mode, and return to normal on exiting the perimeter. Given that phones have a
precise GPS locked timebase, I'd even assume that it is possible to beamform
the signal from multiple phones, allowing conversations to be picked out from
background noise. Continuous monitoring, as long as there is a continuous
stream of mobile phones passing by.

------
mikeyouse
Every time the US, UK, or other 'western' governments announce a foiled terror
attack or suspected plot, a significant portion of the HN community is vocally
skeptical. I hope that skepticism persists even when it goes the other
direction.

I think it's pretty likely that the bug came from the US or one of our allies
but its absolutely possible that it didn't. Everyone has home grown political
enemies and this would be an excellent time for a false flag to capitalize on
a prominent news story.

~~~
lostlogin
What is the other direction to to skeptical in? And how does bugging that
embassy relate to terrorism? A fair portion of terrorism comes from quite
close US allies (Saudi, Pakistan arguably Israel depending on your politics),
so I suppose bugging them may be helpful.

~~~
mikeyouse
I suppose my original post was needlessly ambiguous. I was a bit apprehensive
that the entire comment section would resemble the first few comments, where
people would uncritically blame the US and insist that the government was out
to get Snowden.

    
    
        What is the other direction to to skeptical in?
    

Many on HN are very skeptical of the US/UK governments (generally for good
reason), but seem to lack a similar level of skepticism for stories that make
the governments look bad. That's the 'other direction' which I was implying.

If some percent of stories that make the government look good are misleading /
planted / etc, then logically, some percent of those which make them look bad
are likely wrong too.

    
    
        And how does bugging that embassy relate to terrorism?
    

It doesn't really, the response to articles like "FBI busts terror cell" was
just the first example of government mistrust that came to mind.

~~~
flyinRyan
>If some percent of stories that make the government look good are misleading
/ planted / etc, then logically, some percent of those which make them look
bad are likely wrong too.

That doesn't follow at all. If the government is actively trying to ensure
stories make them look good, they certainly wouldn't want _any_ to make them
look bad. They certainly wouldn't be creating/planting/whatever stories to do
that unless they were provably false and would be used to advantage later
(e.g. "look at this bias reporting!").

------
loupeabody
Forgive my optimism, but perhaps things like this happen all the time and it's
hardly ever newsworthy...?

Yeah, I can't really find a positive outlook to all this international
intrigue and espionage. There isn't one, right?

This particular development, though, seems way more dramatic than the rest. I
wonder what point there is in waiting until tomorrow to release the source of
the bug.

~~~
TillE
There was a huge diplomatic incident in 2006 when the Russians discovered
listening devices planted by the UK. This doesn't happen every day.

[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/19/fake-rock-
plot-s...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/19/fake-rock-plot-spy-
russians)

~~~
Spooky23
Sure it does. The Soviets went as far as to embed some sort of passive
microphones in cinder blocks used to build the US Embassy in Moscow. The US
planted copier repairmen/spies to install cameras in xerox machines at the
Russian embassy.

~~~
brown9-2
Just like when the US built a tunnel under the Soviet embassy in DC:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/04/us/us-thinks-agent-
reveale...](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/04/us/us-thinks-agent-revealed-
tunnel-at-soviet-embassy.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm)

------
beedogs
The US government appears to be absolutely terrified of this 29-year-old
former NSA contractor.

What could he possibly be saving to use against them?

~~~
krapp
_The US government appears to be absolutely terrified of this 29-year-old
former NSA contractor._

No it doesn't, really. I believe this is wishful thinking on your part, but
see no evidence of it. You believe the US somehow planted this bug in the
Ecuadorian embassy just in case Snowden ended up there? America isn't the only
country in the world that bugs embassies and even so, where's the proof this
particular bug is that new?

~~~
ryguytilidie
How you could say "I see no evidence of this" is just so far beyond me I don't
know whether to laugh or cry. You think that insisting the guy is barred from
every ally or that we are grounding foreign president's planes because we are
worried Snowden might be on them and somehow your brain takes all these inputs
and spits out "no evidence". How does that happen? Does one train in some sort
of ignorance academy?

~~~
krapp
_You think that insisting the guy is barred from every ally_

You're assuming that every other government is a puppet state of the US,
incapable of making its own decisions or engaging in its own politics. No one
else has to give Edward Snowden asylum if they don't want to. If you're
talking about his passport being revoked, he was accused of a serious crime
and was fleeing the country -- revoking someone's passport under those
circumstances is not uncommon. None of this is evidence of the US being
'terrified' of anything.

 _we are grounding foreign president 's planes because we are worried Snowden
might be on them_

WE did not ground anything, unless I missed the part where the United States
runs the European Union. I suppose if there's a thunderstorm in Moscow, it's
because the US controls the weather too? If Edward Snowden has a bad egg salad
sandwich, the US must be poisoning everyone's chickens?

Consider this... the assumption that Edward Snowden has access to secrets so
utterly damaging to the US that the government would be willing to do anything
and everything possible to stop him... which brings with it the suggestion
that the US is so evil that it would have such a secret still stowed away
somewhere....

... and yet we let him leave the country at all. And yet, we appear (despite
being 'absolutely terrified') to be working within the system. You think it
would be impossible for the CIA to book a couple of flights to Moscow and
maybe have Edward Snowden eat a bullet if they were _that_ desperate?

------
ars
I would be very surprised if the US _didn 't_ have bugs in every embassy on
earth.

In fact if they didn't I'd call the CIA to task and ask them to explain why
not.

~~~
Centigonal
That's a dangerously lax attitude to have. What threat to national security
could or would the CIA curtail by bugging Ecuador's embassy in London?

I'd understand Chinese or Russian embassies, but expecting _every embassy on
Earth_ is an incredibly permissive stance to take, even as a safety-conscious
citizen of the U.S.

~~~
prostoalex
Because political alliances are impermanent?

It would be pretty hard to bug Ecuador's embassy the day after they were
deemed a threat to national security.

>>> I'd understand Chinese or Russian embassies

"We've always been at war with Eastasia".

~~~
Centigonal
It's not so much a matter of enmity (or lack thereof) as it is a matter of
capability (or lack thereof). China and Russia are capable of causing serious
harm to U.S. citizens and interests. Ecuador, not so much.

Of course, this view does not account for black swans, but I think the
possibility of an entirely unprecedented method for a militarily and
economically inferior nation to meaningfully harm U.S. citizens and/or
interests being developed and put to use (not even accounting for alliances or
motives) is sufficiently low that the risk is not worth surveilling the world
to mitigate.

------
ck2
Apparently the cold war has never ended or the US government never got the
message.

~~~
ihsw
Ending the Cold War was a formality to 'restore' public faith in cohesive
global organizations. Free-trade agreements and other major economic blocs
shatter borders as a matter of policy -- the fact that such tight unity,
solidarity, and uniformity between nations has gone unnoticed is probably more
disturbing than actual acts that verify this unity (ie: Snowden having nowhere
to run to).

Multi-generational voter apathy has culminated to a point where most people
are so disconnected from reality that they thought Snowden could escape the
long arm of the US Government.

~~~
mehmehshoe
I reeealy hate giving you an upvote.

------
machrider
I'm getting an infinite google translate recursion situation here. Pretty
amusing, actually.

------
lostlogin
Has anyone else tried reading that article on an iPhone? How many different
sorts of bad is that experience? Banners, nav bar, non realizable, scrolls
left to right and up and down.

~~~
waitwhat
The "Reader" button in the address bar fixes it.

~~~
lostlogin
I went for the reader prototype: Instapaper.

------
randuser
Perhaps the Russians planted the device and intentionally made it easy to find
in order to incriminate the US.

------
pearjuice
Odd how they find find it this late during runtime. I mean, how long has the
building been standing there?

------
dfc
Does anyone else get an endless recursive loop of google translate when
clicking this link?

------
antitrust
They seem unstable. I'd bug them too!

------
e3pi
Julian, now a year out, restless with cabin fever, wanders around the silent
Ecuador Embassy at night in his `Sparky-the-Dog(tm)' pajamas, takes a chunk
out of a smart phone, covers it with flat-black `Gaffer(tm)' fingernail
polish, disgruntled with Ecuador President waffled then caved under US on
Snowden asylum, glue-sticks his fake `bug' under an antique desk.

~~~
e3pi
Image of fake bug:

[http://cryptome.org/2013/07/ec-bug-decoy.htm](http://cryptome.org/2013/07/ec-
bug-decoy.htm)

