

A defense of the 99% - munin
http://teenskepchick.org/2011/10/09/a-defense-of-the-99/

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rick888
"These are people who are homeless or on the verge of losing their homes.
These are people living paycheck to paycheck, despite having what we think of
as stable or decent paying jobs. These are people struggling to put food on
their tables. These are people with illnesses that have destroyed their lives.
I don’t understand how anyone can look at a group of people who are desperate,
whose lives are falling apart, and say that those people are selfish and whiny
when they demand a change."

All of these things were around before wall street and they will be around
after wall street. I'm not sure how protesting is going to give these people
any more money, unless it means taking it from the people that are working.

"This is a SYSTEMATIC FAILURE for those people who are struggling to make ends
meet and to help this country grow and flourish"

Minimum wage already exists and you can get by on it (although it's not easy,
I've done it myself).

"The government has given tax breaks to the highest 1% and has given nothing
to the rest of us"

50% of the population doesn't pay federal income taxes. How is this not a tax
break?

"And everyone in this country has realized that health care is not functioning
the way it should, which means that many of these people who have done
everything they were “supposed” to are struggling because their health got in
the way of their jobs or sapped their money."

This happens, but not to as many people as you would like us to believe. The
last stats I saw showed > 70% had some form of health care.

"I don’t know if I would go so far as to say we’re the 1% seeing as there are
MANY countries that take care of the majority of their citizens better than
America does (see: all countries that do not have a paranoid terror of
anything remotely socialist, e.g. Norway, Sweden, etc.)"

You do realize that it's almost impossible to start a business in those
countries due to regulations and taxes, Right? You also pay 60-70% in taxes
(income+VAT+other).

There is a reason people don't like socialism: It gives the government control
over you. Instead of being able to choose where your money goes, it's taken
right off the top and spent by the government in any way they see fit. It's a
monopoly that you are forced to pay.

The government is an important thing to have, but it needs to have limits.

"Simply because a person has a cell phone does not mean they’re wealthy. It
means they chose to spend their money on one of the most useful inventions of
the last century."

A cell phone costs how much? Usually $60-$70 per-month (sometimes more)
depending on the plan. You don't need a cell phone. You can get a high-
deductible individual health-care plan for that much. If you don't have
insurance through your employer, it won't break your bank account if you get
into an accident.

This article hasn't changed my mind about the protests.

~~~
laaph
I don't understand some of your arguments.

"50% of the population doesn't pay federal income taxes. How is this not a tax
break?"

The last time I paid no income taxes, it was because I made so very little
money. My understanding is that because I make so little it is understood that
it is better for me to keep that money than to shuffle it around in government
assistance.

Now, with a 50%, that would imply that half the population lives on a small
amount of money, and thus be an argument that something is not at all
balanced.

Or, if you think the 50% makes perfectly good amounts of money thus they could
afford taxes, and the people making small amounts are paying too much taxes,
then again, I think you are only bolstering the arguments of those you are
arguing against.

Your other comments don't seem logical to me either (people start businesses
in european countries all the time, cell phones can be cheap on a prepaid
plan, it is arguable that you do need a phone to live in today's society,
etc). Saying 30% of people do not have health care is shocking to anyone who
thinks health care fundamental for life (you take care of your car, but not
your body?).

Of course I have made a lot of assumptions in what I've written, but without
understanding your assumptions and what you are trying to say, I could only
use this as arguments to why I should support the protestors.

~~~
rick888
"The last time I paid no income taxes, it was because I made so very little
money. My understanding is that because I make so little it is understood that
it is better for me to keep that money than to shuffle it around in government
assistance."

I thought everyone needed to pay their fair share? Or is it only for the
people working? If more people were taxed, they might not be fighting so hard
to have money taken out of the pockets of other people. It's easy to support
laws that give you all of the benefits.

"Now, with a 50%, that would imply that half the population lives on a small
amount of money, and thus be an argument that something is not at all
balanced."

no, it just means that the other 50% are paying the taxes for everyone else. I
seriously doubt 50% of the population are making so little money that they
can't pay federal income taxes.

"Saying 30% of people do not have health care is shocking to anyone who thinks
health care fundamental for life (you take care of your car, but not your
body?)"

Right, if you can afford to take care of your car, you should be using that
money towards your body (IE: healthcare) instead.

There is a problem with health care in the US, but government-run care isn't
the answer.

"Your other comments don't seem logical to me either (people start businesses
in european countries all the time, cell phones can be cheap on a prepaid
plan, it is arguable that you do need a phone to live in today's society,
etc)"

You could easily get by without a cell phone. Most libraries have free
Internet access.

"people start businesses in european countries all the time"

As it is, starting a business is tough. I can't imagine how the difficulty of
it with the government taking out 60%+. I would also be interested to see the
percentage of small businesses compared to huge businesses opening up a
European branch.

"I could only use this as arguments to why I should support the protestors."

I feel like everyone supporting the protesters are making it into something
it's not. You're supporting them for all of these reasons that probably have
nothing to do with the actual reason people are protesting.

