

Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine - Smotko
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfnudeln&num=1

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sho_hn
Even though Steam invites its own problems (it's ultimately a form of DRM, a
closed platform, and a closed-source application), as a FOSS developer I can't
help but feel excited about this prospect. I know many, many people in the
15-35 age bracket who are open to and curious about Linux, even tried it, but
ultimately didn't stick with it because of the lack of high-end native games
and because rebooting or setting up Wine is too much of a hassle. Valve has
tremendous power to change this and legitimize Linux as a platform in their
eyes.

Plus, there's already a lot of games in the Steam catalogue that have native
Linux versions available:

\- Dozens of independent titles, e.g. everything that was in those Humble
Bundles.

\- Everything using the DOSBox emulator to run even on Windows, e.g. id's
Commander Keen, some Lucasarts Star Wars games, etc.

\- Even a bunch of AAA titles: id Software's games (Doom, Quake) and games
that have licensed their engine (e.g. Human Head's Prey), games that were
ported by Linux Game Publishing (e.g. Egosoft's X series of spaceflight
simulators), several games by Epic (e.g. Unreal Tournament) or using an Epic
engine (e.g. Rune and Deus Ex, ported by Loki), Neverwinter Nights,
Civilization: Call to Power, ...

Add Valve's own games and possibly some of the other games using their Source
engine, and you could easily make 100-150 games available on Linux within a
year of launch just from _what's already there_. But even more exciting is the
notion of Steam's availability making more game makers consider adding Linux
to their list of supported platforms _going forward_ because the distribution
problem is solved for them.

~~~
toyg
The distribution bit is fairly irrelevant -- yes, you have different packages
and filesystem standards, but those are trivial and have mostly been solved.
The real problem for Linux games is platform fragmentation: every distribution
has a specific set of libraries running with a specific set of kernels, they
change very quickly, everyone can compile them with whatever flag they feel
like... Anyone distributing binary blobs is going to hurt in support terms, or
make customers hurt trying to solve library riddles. Just look at how painful
it is to try run an old Loki game on a new distro release.

~~~
sho_hn
No, the distribution bit is key and critical.

"OK, so we're going to do a Linux version. How are we going to get it into the
hands of our customers? What, we need to set up a download infrastructure for
that? No, that's way too much overhead for a Linux version. What, we're
supposed to partner with a small niche digital distribution platform we've
never heard about? No, not worth it, either. Wait, we can just upload the
Linux version to Steam, where we already upload our Windows and Mac versions?
Sure, why not."

As for distributing binary blobs: You're overstating the issue, IMHO. ABIs in
Linux userland are fairly stable these days.

~~~
toyg
All this supposed stability doesn't seem to be reflected in a growing number
of desktop products for Linux, not even ones that don't require a specific
"download infrastructure" like recent games (which is really just a way of
enforcing DRM, something that might not even be possible in the Linux world),
so I'm really not convinced the main obstacle to commercial Linux development
for the desktop is the distribution channel.

I think the bottom line is the opportunity price, and it's still way too high
for Linux overall -- it's harder to support, harder to develop against, brings
a several-orders-of-magnitude-smaller userbase who mostly resents having to
pay for software... easy deployment won't change that figure very much, IMHO,
but I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong.

~~~
sho_hn
> All this supposed stability doesn't seem to be reflected in a growing number
> of desktop products for Linux

You're shifting the goal posts. Nobody was claiming that ABI stability would
lead to an increase in products, I was replying to you claiming ABI
instability as a significant obstacle. As for the number of binary-distributed
desktop products for Linux not having grown lately, I think you're completely
wrong on that: See the Humble Bundle games.

And the userbase being so much smaller is, again, why Steam for Linux is such
a big deal: It's an extension to a platform publishers are already familiar
with, which makes it easier than ever for them to add the platform.

On top of that, Steam is more than just a distribution platform, it's also an
SDK for things like multiplayer lobbies, meta-game systems like achievements
and savegame sync. Dozens of titles are using that SDK now, and getting it
ported to Linux maikes Steam for Linux also an important middleware port.

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drostie
Perversely, I grew to _like_ the fact that Linux doesn't really have many
games for it. I think we could say that I lost many hours of my life to MMOs
and RPGs, though perhaps "lost" should be in scare quotes. It's kind of the
same reason that I don't own consoles or a television -- I lost as large a
chunk of my life to watching Star Trek as I lost to playing Morrowind, after
all.

With hope, I am now mature enough to overcome temptation. So I wish all of my
fellow Lingeeks: happy gaming.

~~~
ch0wn
Very true. Dual-boot has always been a great barrier to overcome for me. Maybe
I can force myself into installing Linux twice for that reason.

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jiggy2011
I wonder if Valve _wants_ Linux to beat Microsoft? After all MS are working
towards building their own app store into the Windows platform which could be
used to muscle Steam out.

Valve actually has a lot of power to play kingmaker here in a way.

Let's suppose that Valve announce HL3 but _also_ announce that it will be a
Linux exclusive title for some period (say 1-3 months), what would happen to
the Linux desktop market share then?

I could see it easily double to treble within a week, of course many of these
would be dual-booters and I wonder what would happen to the increased market
share once the game was subsequently released for Windows?

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Osiris
With the recent rumors around the idea of a Steam-based console, is it
possible that all this work for a Linux client and native Linux steam engine
is setting the framework for an open source (software and hardware) based
console.

EDIT: I see other comments state that Valve is not working on any sort of
console. Still, it leaves me thinking they may have a longer-term plan than
just selling games to Linux users.

~~~
Angostura
It's a shame that Gabe denied the rumours that he was talking with Apple. I
was hoping for a Steam client embedded in Apple's new TV thingy.

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darklajid
Okay, I'd love to see that and the story's great.

Having said that: This is the URL:

[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfnudeln&num=1)

I have the unfortunate issue of inspecting URLs I navigate to. This one
contains an 'item' called 'valve_linux_dampfnudeln'. What? Searching the page
for 'dampf' gives no result. I fear that I won't be able to sleep tonight if
no one can tell me what kind of reference this is.

Why am I deeply confused? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dampfnudel>

~~~
Havoc
"Dampf" is German for steam. I believe its one of the things eaten at the
Octoberfest to which the author alludes to indirectly the article:

>the land of beer and wonderful Bayerischen Frauen and delicious food

The author appears to have picked Germany as a bit of an overall theme (Beer,
Prost, Dampfnudel, Bayern etc). Not sure why.

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Lockyy
So, when are the jokes about this being the year of linux on the desktop going
to start? Not being negative about the possibility, I do think that games are
a large stumbling block to that endgame.

~~~
Smotko
I made this joke as soon as I saw the article:
<https://twitter.com/#!/Smotko/status/195057443674406912> :)

~~~
Lockyy
I knew it would happen!

~~~
Smotko
It was inevitable!

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AndrewDucker
So, the forthcoming Valve console will be running Linux!

~~~
jerf
It seems at least necessary to do the classic "Hey, Microsoft, we have a
credible alternative, give us good pricing" move, if nothing else. Given that
Microsoft is a direct competitor with Games for Windows it's not a great move
for Valve to be dependent on them, lest they get Lotus'ed or something.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Lotused? What's that?

~~~
xsmasher
A reference to Lotus 1-2-3 I presume.

~~~
jerf
Yes. It's an urban legend if you really get down to it, or so the official
debunkings go, but nevertheless the underlying issue is still true. You don't
want to build your Amazon competitor on AWS, you don't want to build your
Google competitor on their cloud, etc. Even if you can completely write off
true sabotage as a threat, there's other real issues, like the needs of the
platform vendor simply diverging from yours over time.

------
nsomaru
He keeps on stating how high their level of commitment is, but never gets into
any details.

Frustrating to read.

~~~
bertzzie
Maybe he is not allowed to talk yet. I can't wait for the official client and
game, because I think when the games start rolling in, the video driver and
other problems in Linux will be fixed faster. Then I could use Linux again.
It's sad that I currently can't run Linux reliably because of my dual-graphic
card (sandy bridge + ati) notebook :(

~~~
nsomaru
What are you running? I'm on OS X atm, but I've always dreamt of running
something like an HP Envy 14 w/ Linux

~~~
bertzzie
It's a HP Pavillion g4
([http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.js...](http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&objectID=c02780990&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN))

I've tried many distro without luck, but the next Ubuntu is giving me some
hope (I came across this recently:
<http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1930450>).

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larrik
This would be VERY good for Humble Indie Bundles, I think.

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beedogs
_"In fact, as soon as I return to my office this weekend I plan to try out
Windows 8 simply to see if it's as bad as Gabe states"_

Oh, dear God, yes, it is.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I'm still using it

...in the Desktop mode, all the time. Never touching start screen if possible.
Going to install Ubuntu.

~~~
naner
Unity has some usability issues, too. I haven't used it regularly since 11.04
but I much prefer Gnome 3's new interface. (Which, on the other hand, many
people also hate...)

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notjustanymike
I would love to read that article. Unfortunately the amount of advertising,
popup junk, and other crap make it near impossible.

