
The first congressman to battle the NSA has died - grovulent
http://pando.com/2014/02/04/the-first-congressman-to-battle-the-nsa-is-dead-no-one-noticed-no-one-cares/
======
spodek
A bunch of people posting here seem to be misreading the point of the article.
The point is not that he died old but that he died in obscurity in the midst
of issues that came to light in part following his work decades ago.

The article suggests he was ahead of his time in finding and exposing problems
with the NSA (and CIA, FBI, etc), which seem egregious then and poignant now.
The article suggests the NSA worked against him, contributing to his
obscurity.

I found the article interesting, informative, and relevant.

~~~
res0nat0r
The headline itself lays out why he was relegated to obscurity: The first
congressman to battle the NSA is dead. __No-one noticed, no-one cares. __

The echo chamber that is HN and Reddit /r/politics does not make the USA as a
whole. No matter how egregious the things you think Snowden reveals over the
next year: _the majority of the USA doesn 't give a damn_.

~~~
powera
... lots of people who were in Congress 30 years ago die, and almost never is
it "important news". Just because it hits some popular current buzzwords
shouldn't really change this.

------
egocodedinsol
Before everyone rushes to the flag button because the author is biased (he
is), consider that this article discusses a historical context I've seen
missing from a lot of the NSA analysis. I find this article, even in its
breathless hyperbole, more informative than the latest "what the NSA is
capable of" version. It shows a historical continuity with the actions
intelligence agencies pursue, and what happened when people tried to stop them
(right or wrong). No, this article is not the rational enquiry I wish it were.
But as someone who is conflicted about NSA activities, I found it shaped my
perspective more than most submissions I've read.

Yes, everyone mentions that telegraphs entering and exiting the country were
tapped, but I was unaware that in the 70s they were already mining for
keywords, not calling it eavesdropping, and refusing to show up for
Congressional inquiries.

When I saw Clapper's now infamous testimony, I assumed it was a new,
emboldened post-9/11 intelligence community that surpassed the Cold War era.
I'm not sure that's the case now.

There's also an argument to be made by those in favor of NSA activities: we've
managed to have an NSA with extraordinary power that defies Congress for a
long time, but we still haven't seen too many secret police.

Ultimately, it focuses the debate to some degree not on NSA goals (which have
historically been to collect as much relevant information as possible, and
resist Congressional oversight with vigor), but on how much easier it now is
to collect that information.

------
joyeuse6701
It is disheartening to know that multiple people fought hard against a system,
lost, and were knowingly, maliciously attacked, rendering their careers over.
This sort of obvious corruption and immorality in character present in a group
that has so much power with very little oversight is repugnant. To
arms...seriously.

------
codex
Dead at 92. The NSA sure got him good. I'm not sure why it took them 40 years
though. Probably to deflect suspicion.

~~~
coldtea
Or you know, they could have just killed his career. Or that of others. A
scandal with some extra marital affair leaked to the press or something, and
there goes the path to the whitehouse for those deemed "unfit".

What I do know is:

a) it's idiotic to demand hard proof of such things, instead of using the best
of what information is available to deduce if it's possible or not

b) As Gore Vidal put it: "Americans have been trained by media to go into
Pavlovian giggles at the mention of 'conspiracy,' because for an American to
believe in a conspiracy he must also believe in flying saucers or, craziest of
all, that more than one person was involved in the JFK murder."

c) After something comes to light, be it Enron, the financial deregulated
party going on pre-2008, the revelations about mass surveillance of American
citizens, etc, idiots -- who previously was all jokes about "that's absurd"
\-- come out saying "of course, we knew all that all along"...

------
droob
"and no one seemed to notice or care."

[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/nyregion/otis-pike-
congres...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/nyregion/otis-pike-congressman-
who-took-on-cia-dies-at-92.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all)

~~~
rhizome
I'm guessing that's Pando's ham-fisted attempt at Upworthy clickbait.

Not that they care what anybody thinks while they're insulting people, the
Pando/TC/Arrington crowd has always cultivated their inner bullies.

~~~
TheCowboy
I wish your comment had something informative to share in support of what you
are asserting. Instead it comes across as something in line with the spirit of
clickbait; devoid of substance with generous dose of bullying.

Edit: I'm not sure if you're suggesting that I'm rude by holding a standard
that dislikes these type of comments on HN that come across as empty hating.

Or if the author of the piece is being rude for some reason, which I am not
seeing myself.

If there is a valid reason behind your comment, then why leave that out or not
respond with additional insight?

~~~
rhizome
I suppose it _is_ generally rude to point out rudeness, but there you go.

~~~
coldtea
No, it's not rude to point out rudeness. Rude is about HOW you do something,
not what you do. Even scratching your balls is not rude -- if you do it in the
privacy of your own bathroom.

~~~
rhizome
Opinions may differ, but I don't really see scratching my balls as a public
service.

------
tn13
I have often wondered why a country like USA still continues to have lots of
freedom compared to many other democracies, couple that with the fact that USA
is probably one of the oldest and largest democracy with extreme diversity.

No doubt that USA seems to become more and more of a police state but this
process is very different from a country like India. In case of a country like
India, there is a huge mistrust between individuals/private parties which
leads to more demands for government intervention and policing despite the
fact that government is known to be corrupt. [1]

In case of US I think it is more of a top down. I still see that fair amount
of trust between private individuals in US which keeps the "small government"
voices loud enough despite all the attempts from government. This is something
that Americans must protect. This trust will get destroyed as the government
adopts more and more "steal from peter and give it to paul" approach.

[1] [http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/politics-
in...](http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/politics-in-its-
place/)

~~~
fit2rule
The USA is _not_ a democracy. Stop thinking it is.

Switzerland is a democracy. India is a democracy. The USA is a representative
Republic. As such, it is liable to a man-in-the-middle attack - as we have
seen, time and again.

------
eruditely
This article was incredible. Deeply against the good guys win narrative.

------
73737382829
There is some serious fucking forum sliding and astro turfing carried out by
feds on this site. Holy fuck.

------
adamnemecek
Disappointing that the articles does not use the word "sheeple" at least once.
/s

~~~
coldtea
Didn't need to, they got their knee-jerk reaction from your comment just fine
/s.

~~~
adamnemecek
lolwut?

~~~
coldtea
Snark at the articles about forgetting to use the word "sheeple" seems ironic
to me.

It's a kind of knee-jerk reaction ("oh, conspirasists!, people who like to use
words like sheeple, tin foil hat wearers, hahahaha") that is indeed sheeplish.

You know, as opposed to reading, understanding and rationally discussing TFA.

~~~
adamnemecek
#2brave4me

------
coldcode
Why is this even voted up here?

~~~
coldtea
Because it was a man who did something to help make a few millions people
lives more free, especially in the areas of privacy that you know, hacker
people care about.

I know, it's not some minor Node.js release.

------
ForHackernews
New leaks point to the NSA's sinister waiting-for-decades-until-they-die-of-
old-age to eliminate its enemies...

