
Secrets of Looking Good on the Dance Floor - mhb
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,673238,00.html
======
wallflower
I've spent thousands on dance instruction from hip-hop to salsa to ballroom.

In my opinion, if you have confidence on the dance floor -that will make you
look pretty good because confidence is attractive. It takes courage to dance
in public, especially freestyle.

When you have possess skill in tandem with confidence to put yourself out
there, that is what makes awesome dancers. For hip-hop, that means hitting the
_off_ beats. Skill + Confidence.

Many of the best dancers I know have that combination. Dancing. It's not about
looks. It's not solely moves. It's about being with the moment. It's about
owning the floor.

    
    
        When you take dancing lessons, you learn steps and
        you learn steps and you learn steps. It can go on 
        for a long time. And then one day, you just learn 
        to dance, and it is so different.                 
    
        - Bill Austin

~~~
andreyf
Right, but how do you measure "confidence" or "owning the floor"?

~~~
wallflower
Subjective peer ratings. Plus if you were to go to any given club, you can
usually tell who has it, on the dance floor.

Not everything can be measured. There is a reason why there are no accurate
algorithms to detect the beat (most rely on tapping a keyboard or pad) - it's
complex and simple at the same time.

~~~
jmtulloss
I think that the article implies that subjective confidence levels may be tied
to objective testosterone levels, which seems completely reasonable to me.

------
gradschool
I've danced recreationally for about 18 years, also occasionally teaching,
performing, or competing, but I found nothing familiar in this article. I
imagine it might also be discouraging for many people to be informed by
someone portrayed as a scientific authority that dancing ability is determined
at birth.

To keep it topical for HN, there is one thing I would say qualifies as a dance
hack, although it sounds like a cliche, which is good posture. It should
maintained not just while dancing but from the moment one enters the room.
Although it's emphasized mainly in ballroom dance, it applies to any form. It
works because we read it subliminally as a high status behavior, and faking it
won't occur to the people who could most benefit by it.

~~~
wallflower
Eighteen years. Wow. You are basically a professional dancer. Professional
dancers should be able to 1) be able to perform or compete at a high level 2)
teach and 3) dance socially.

One thing I left out in my earlier comments is the people who have been
dancing for a long time can inadvertently intimidate newbies - particularly
for ballroom - because at the dance club they see these really experienced
dancers glide across the floor - and they think - how can I dance with these
people who are so good and/or dance on the same floor. The nicer dancers will
ask newbies to dance because they remember when they were starting out, in
simultaneous awe and intimidation.

Another dance hack, especially for Latin dancing, is understanding the
structure of the music so that you can predict changes in the music with good
probability.

For example, in Salsa music, listen for a change in the music, count 8
measures and anticipate a break, and if there is no break, count another 8 (16
total) and anticipate the break. Sometimes it gets to 24 before there is a
break and followers love it when you can predict these breaks (dance to the
music).

It is actually a lot, lot harder to do this when you are social dancing and
trying to protect your follower (crowded dance floor) - but it is doable.

The other part is tempo changes - vary the speed of your moves to the tempo
and feel of the music. Slow things down, speed things up.

------
goodside
It's important to note (the article does, but it's worth emphasizing) that the
correlation for coordinated dance moves is not with present testosterone
levels, it's with pre-natal testosterone exposure. The first is measured with
blood tests, the second with finger lengths. Present testosterone levels
correlate strongly with height, muscle definition, and beard thickness.
Prenatal testosterone levels correlate with "male-typical" personality traits
(increased visuospatial abilities, impaired empathy and language skills),
taste bud insensitivity, autism incidence, homosexuality incidence, and
decreased autoacoustic emissions.

In short, the best dancers aren't necessarily jocks, they're geeks and
homosexuals.

Honestly, I'd like to see this same study performed with self-identifying
homosexuals screened out from the sample pool, as they tend to have much
higher 4d:2d finger-length ratios and could drastically affect the results.
I'd bet money that the correlation still persists, but the social dynamics are
so obviously different between straight and gay men at a dance club that it's
worth controlling for.

~~~
SwellJoe
_Honestly, I'd like to see this same study performed with self-identifying
homosexuals screened out from the sample pool, as they tend to have much
higher 4d:2d finger-length ratios and could drastically affect the results._

Not to mention, gay guys, in general, are dramatically better dancers than
straight guys. (Stereotypes aren't always accurate, but, honestly, anybody
want to argue about this one?)

~~~
wallflower
The few times I've been out to a gay dance club I've noticed that the vibe is
really fun - most of the guys there are dancing without inhibition, even if
they aren't great dancers (compare to the hetero club dance floor).

------
ambition
The article doesn't cite a paper, so I can't check these criticisms out in
detail, but:

\- If the people rating the dancers were watching silhouettes, then they were
evaluating the attractiveness of the dancers' body-shapes, too.

\- If Lovatt is "entering uncharted territory", that might mean nobody is
checking his work.

\- I can't find any publications on Google Scholar authored by this guy for
"Peter Lovatt", "Peter Lovatt Dance", or "Lovatt Dance". Bad sign.

Take this article with a grain of salt, it has several markers of
pseudoscience.

~~~
tome
You can still see people's body shapes in a silhouette.

~~~
ambition
Exactly. I'm suggesting that there's a rather-important-yet-unaddressed
confounding variable in the analysis.

~~~
tome
Oh I see, I misunderstood the whole situation! I agree, your issue is
pertinent.

------
rjett
They should have filmed their subjects over the span of sobriety to high
levels of intoxication. The results would be interesting since confidence
should go up, but coordination should, at some point, drop off.

------
wallflower
The secret of learning how to partner dance:

[http://www.unlikelysalsero.com/2007/08/magic-of-time-last-
on...](http://www.unlikelysalsero.com/2007/08/magic-of-time-last-one-
standing.html)

------
nearestneighbor
_Those men who made big moves but who were less coordinated came across as
dominant alpha males -- and were unlikely to win women's hearts._

...

 _He wasn't even able to read until he was 23_

This should be in the WTF subreddit.

------
dschobel
This reminded me of the last time I saw this guy in the popular press when he
said he found that dancing like Travolta from Saturday Night Fever was really
attractive to women.

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Lifestyle/Dance_like_Trav...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Lifestyle/Dance_like_Travolta_to_win_her_heart/articleshow/3587171.cms)

------
Tichy
In general evolution theory inspires me, but I have to admit it ruined dancing
for me. After all, it seems like the perfect way to demonstrate physical and
mental fitness (mental fitness with the coordination skills). Realizing that
completely took the joy out of it for me.

~~~
donaldc
Why did that ruin it for you? Things need not be pointless in order to be
fun...

~~~
Tichy
I can't do it just for the sake of dancing anymore. I know what I would really
be doing, and I resent playing the game.

------
kilian
_If one is to believe psychologist Peter Lovatt, three factors influence how
confidently an individual moves on the dance floor -- and how attractive the
other gender finds the performance. Those factors are age, gender and genes._

Age, Gender and Genes? That really narrows it down, now doesn't it. Reading
on, testosterone is what influences how big your dancing movements are, which
makes sense.

~~~
kscaldef
_Prenatal exposure to testosterone_, which is not exactly an obvious
correlation.

------
tophat02
Do NOT bite your lower lip!

~~~
tome
Why not?

------
johnl
I think it is more like programming. The more you program, the better you find
what works and what doesn't, the better your programming becomes.

------
andreyf
Except causation != correlation?

