
White Hat Hackers Would Have Their Devices Destroyed Under the TPP - walterbell
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/white-hat-hackers-would-have-their-devices-destroyed-under-the-tpp?utm_s
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tptacek
I don't understand the argument here.

The TPP is not itself a law. It's a meta-law, which commits its signatories to
enact actual enforceable laws based on the framework established in the
treaty.

No device can be destroyed "under the TPP". The TPP instead demands that its
signatories enact laws so that they have a judicial process whose remedies can
potentially include the destruction of devices. The TPP hasn't even been
ratified yet, let alone enabled by law.

This seems like hair-splitting, but I don't think it is. I think the question
of what impact TPP will have on security research depends entirely on what the
enabling laws for the TPP look like in each country. In the US, our laws
already cordon off security and interoperability research from anti-
circumvention enforcement.

The TPP itself also acknowledges non-infringing use. First, note that the Vice
article selectively quotes the leaked TPP text, which does not demand
destruction of "anti-circumvention devices", but rather of devices engaged in
_prohibited activity_. The TPP does not demand a prohibition on security
research. Further, the TPP earlier (QQ.G.17) binds each party to balance IP
law with fair use for criticism, comment, and research.

I'm not arguing that the TPP IP law is going to be a good thing for security
research. It probably won't be (at least, not outside the US). But it's too
early to know what it's impact is going to be, and certainly to early to say
that it's going to result in the confiscation of security researcher laptops.

~~~
walterbell
_> The TPP hasn't even been ratified yet, let alone enabled by law._

Public debate precedes and informs whether a government will sign the TPP. If
a government signs the TPP, public debate will precede and inform how a
government chooses to implement exclusions which are permitted by the TPP.

The US has entered a 90-day window for public debate, 60 days of which will
include access to the official text.
[http://i.imgur.com/k6Je0Dz.png](http://i.imgur.com/k6Je0Dz.png) . Hundreds of
industry lobbyists have had access and input to the TPP text for years.

Journalists and academics now have a short time window to try and understand
possible interpretations of the TPP text. This will be like reading source
code without Git history or comments.

 _> But it's too early to know what it's impact is going to be._

When would be a good time for public debate?

~~~
tptacek
I didn't argue that it was too early for debate. I argued something else.

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walterbell
Related threads from yesterday:

70 comments, _TPP final negotiated text – IP chapter_ ,
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10359604](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10359604)

150 comments, _The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared_ ,
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10363500](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10363500)

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astaroth360
Ugh, the TPP is going to be bad generally speaking. Trade deals don't tend to
help out the little guy much, only the corporate interests.

~~~
Umn55
FYI

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDiHspTJww&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDiHspTJww&feature=youtu.be)

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Qantourisc
How do we stop the madness? And even worse how do we undo it after it's too
late ?

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pessimizer
This sounds more like "anyone who has ever ripped a cd or jailbroken their
iPhone would have their devices destroyed under the TPP."

edit: the FCC have always had that power over pirate radio - maybe that's the
new metaphor that's going to be pushed.

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jwatte
It may not pass because neither tobacco nor diary farmers got carve outs.

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tracker1
I think we need another black out the web day to protest the TPP... Maybe
November 2nd?

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samstave
uh -- do these idiots not think that a "white hat hacker" could be doing
something from a VPS/VM in a cloud behind six proxies??

Destroy that bitches!

~~~
geggam
Someone's credit card pays for that VPS/VM/Cloud... they can really destroy
that as well.

All they are doing is forcing white to go black.

When everything is illegal everyone is a criminal.

~~~
wyager
> Someone's credit card pays for that VPS

I pay for mine with Bitcoin.

If this treaty and its ilk come to pass, I expect we'll see a massive
flourishing of digital grey markets, with a heavy focus on anonymity.

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PavlovsCat
This is as "hacker news" as it gets, but apparently it got flagged?
Considering the age, upvote count and position relative to other stories, as
well as that it does NOT have a lot of comments which apparently also pushes
things down, it really seems that way, and that's just sad.

~~~
PavlovsCat
Ditto for this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10368404](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10368404)

