
N26 raises $160M from Tencent and Allianz - Artemis2
https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/20/n26-raises-160-million-from-tencent-and-allianz/
======
scrollaway
I'm a huge fan of N26. Been using them as my primary bank for 2 years.

My main wishlist for them:

\- Allow access to more "raw" data (eg. log of failed payment attempts and why
they failed, etc)

\- Move support back into the mobile app. It used to be there, now it's a pain
to find a phone/email to contact. (The web UI still has live chat)

\- Don't expire fingerprint auth after 30 days if I'm actively using it.

\- Clarify the differences between the business and personal accounts. It's in
a weird state right now.

\- More default categories, better tagging, etc. The aspect of tagging your
transactions is super cool, it's just a bit hard to use right now.

I'm a huge fan though and 100% recommend it to anyone living in Europe. If
someone wants an affiliate invite, shoot me an email (profile).

~~~
a254613e
I've had them as my primary bank for about a year or so.

I would not recommend them to anyone, especially not as the main bank. Some
issues I personally experienced:

\- Double transaction entries (making monthly reports, subtotals, etc wrong).

\- Failing to execute standing orders (not acceptable).

\- Atrocious 9-5 support.

\- Broken fingerprint login on certain android devices.

\- Abysmal security [0]

\- Couldn't log in few times (outside support hours), app/website unusable.

\- A lot of other less severe bugs (categories being wrong in web and reports
for example).

I've closed my account with then in October 2017, here's what happened since:

\- I still get monthly reports about my closed accounts.

\- I get various summaries e.g. the "Your 2017 with N26"

\- They reported to SCHUFA (German credit rating agency) a month AFTER my
account was closed that I opened an account with them (again).

\- After I contact their legal department about a week ago and I demanded my
data in accordance with German data protection laws, they started to
apparently do something with my account, since now I get emails like that my
phone has been unpaired and so on.

\- For all the issues I've outlined above after closing my account I've tried
contacting support. They ignore me after I clarify that my account should've
been deleted.

This is just what I remember from the top of my head. I also paid for their
premium N26 Black subscription.

[0]:
[https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money](https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money)

~~~
lloeki
> Abysmal security [0]

At 24:57 in the talk, there is a specific section about "disclosure and
conclusion", where the talker points out that N26 acted very professionally
and that all issues have been solved. You can hardly say so about regular
banks, which usually just ignore you or send you canned responses (I know, I
tried to report some issues to two banks of mine, still unsolved after 3
years).

~~~
h4m24
"Abysmal security" N26 had 0 public security incident, what was reported
wasn't actually an incident but a potential one. the researcher worked with
N26 to fix the issues and it was fixed before the talk was scheduled.

------
hawski
I live in Germany for almost 3 years now and for the first half I just used
EUR account of my Polish bank. I only needed an account here, because I moved
to a new apartment. And to sign up for Internet connection available provider
needed German bank account number. It's prevalent to pay for all recurring
costs with Lastschriftmandat. That's totally alien to me. I prefer just to
manually pay it myself with bank transfer. Generally it's a form to fill out,
sign and send - then they go to your bank and get paid.

Anyways I tried with two other banks first. One did not answer at all. A
second one after 4 weeks or so just answered that they will not open an
account for me, with no reason why. With N26 it was really fast and pleasant.

From my Polish bank I have Visa card and at least in Berlin it's not widely
accepted. N26 gives Maestro card that is accepted a bit wider. However German
EC card is a standard one that will be accepted everywhere where cards are
accepted, while it's not the same with Maestro. However there are many many
places that require cash. N26 gives 3 free withdrawals. My Polish bank gives
me free withdrawals everywhere. That's why I still use it. Even more, in
Poland cards are very widely accepted. Lately I could get by with just a phone
in my pocket - Android pay is supported.

N26 has quite nice application, but it does not even begin to compare to my
Polish bank. In Polish bank when I want to setup a transfer it gives ability
to fill out everything based on history. In N26 I have to copy the amount and
the message, it's tiresome.

Now I think about account in more traditional bank to get EC card and set up
join account with my wife, that's also not possible in N26.

~~~
jazzyk
Would you be willing to name the Polish bank? Are there any other banks
providing similar services/support?

~~~
hawski
mBank. Funny thing is that mBank started as purely as an internet bank.
Nowadays it has also stationary branches. I think that most banks in Poland
had to up their game, because of mBank.

And you can have cheap transfers in EU between EUR accounts, even when the
country does not use euro as the currency. It's around 1.something EUR.

~~~
jazzyk
Thank you!

They don;t offer EUR accounts, though? So, there is always currency exchange
risk, when you travel in Europe?

EDIT: Nevermind, they do offer EUR, USD, CHF and GBP accounts.

------
sajithdilshan
I think a lot of expats in Germany uses N26 because it used to be easy to open
an account without a registered address. But unfortunately, the e-postident
doesn't work amymore for most of the South Asian passports
([https://www.facebook.com/deutschepost/posts/1805883209423283](https://www.facebook.com/deutschepost/posts/1805883209423283)).
Hope N26 will introduce more ways of identification.

~~~
avh02
Yeah I didn't have the smoothest onboarding experience with the identity
checking (I'm not from a first world country) - however it eventually worked
(Feb 2018).

I originally couldn't even request postident (verification by Deutsche Post at
a local post office for those not familiar) - after an app update the option
magically appeared to request postident.

What disappointed me was that I was on the phone with their customer support
and apparently even if you have a residence ID (I'm assuming this should be
considered a legal document proving your identity to the host nation since
it's issued by them) that it would not allow me open an account. I really do
hope they accept this legal form of identification for those with less luck.

I wouldn't say it's a racist thing, but it's certainly feels extremely
personal when you can't open an account with an organization because of your
nationality (or your national documents to be precise).

~~~
germanier
The electronic residence permit is legally not an ID card (even though it
looks like one) and they are not allowed to use that as identification as
required by banking laws.

~~~
avh02
I suspected something like this, I'm new here so wasn't definite on that one -
in other countries residence cards are (for day to day except at the border)
more or less ID proper.

------
StavrosK
I use N26 as my main bank, but there have been some annoyances/stupid bugs.
For example, when I tried to make a transfer and used Greek in the
description, the app got in a very weird crashy loop. The website's login
screen looked weird on Firefox, the UX is odd (it requires you to confirm a
transfer four times), and it takes them forever to fix these things.

Other than that, I really like them, and they're very innovative for a bank,
but that's a very low bar. Hopefully they'll step up their game with this
funding. Revolut, by comparison, is much more usable, although there are
things I don't like there as well.

------
shaqbert
The key issue with N26 is their poor unit economics. Right now, they are
losing money on most of the checking accounts, as they foot the ATM wholesale
fee (though they limit it to 3 "free" ATM withdrawals per months).

The issue is that they don't have enough premium services to compensate for
the "loss leader" like regular banks do. The hope from Tencent and Allianz is
that they will add these now, and then move to great unit economics, but for
now they are bleeding red ink.

~~~
215163831328308
Their website[1] front page seems to state up to 5 'free' ATM withdrawals per
month.

[1]: [https://next.n26.com/en-eu/](https://next.n26.com/en-eu/)

~~~
coinerone
Only 5 free withdrawals if you use your N26 Account as your Main Banking
Account (more than 500€ per Month in incoming transfers or so i think).

~~~
h4m24
"(more than 500€ per Month in incoming transfers or so i think)" it amazes me
how ppl make stuff up all the time

~~~
tgsovlerkhgsel
[https://support.n26.com/read/000001324?locale=en](https://support.n26.com/read/000001324?locale=en)

Salary etc. or 1000 EUR per month, with some other exceptions. Possibly
country-specific.

------
cosmic_ape
Can someone list the advantages of using this instead of a regular bank+credit
card?

1) Monitoring spending in real time or on a weekly basis is useful, and this
seems to make it easier. But just a tool for downloading, viewing and
analyzing the data from a regular credit card site would suffice, and can be
self made.

2) It creates competition for the regular banks, so they potentially would
stop being hogs about some of the fees.

But what else?

~~~
purerandomness
3) It's much quicker to get an account. There is absolutely no paperwork
involved.

4) Concentrating only on one thing, they tend to get UI and UX much better
than old-fashioned banks, who have to still serve clients who are skeptical
about online banking and fill in paper-form money transfers and bring them to
the bank in person.

------
domenukk
A paper about N26 Security
[https://www1.cs.fau.de/filepool/projects/n26/n26-roots.pdf](https://www1.cs.fau.de/filepool/projects/n26/n26-roots.pdf)

------
nraynaud
I mainly use my N26 card here in the US, because I believe the conversion rate
is cheaper (I never actually checked).

If you are in the US, the instant notification of credit card swiping is
mostly useless in restaurants, since it doesn't show the tip until the
transaction is actually processed a long time later. A few restaurants ask you
to go in the back with them to type your pin, because they have a chip reader,
but they don't yet have the wireless "gameboy" (it just occurred to me that
pin+tip might be a tall order, the pin protects the amount too).

~~~
atomwaffel
> (it just occurred to me that pin+tip might be a tall order, the pin protects
> the amount too)

Where I live, the card machines show you the total and ask you to type in the
final amount (including tip) before you enter your pin.

------
twooclock
Using N26 for last 6+ months. Love no fee on transfers, realtime
notifications, their masterkey works worldwide (had no problems in eu, us and
canada), easy to block/enable internet or abroad payments and daily limits. I
don't do atm withdrawals though. Overall great deal for me sofar. Would
recommend.

------
mnembrini
There was an interesting CCC talk about N26 security in 2016

[https://disruptive.asia/researcher-n26-security-
gaps/](https://disruptive.asia/researcher-n26-security-gaps/)

Their security seemed a bit lax back then

~~~
lloeki
The talk has been mentioned in a nearby thread, and includes a specific
section about N26 response to the incident, which was deemed quite
professional.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16627730](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16627730)

------
brunosutic
I'm Croatia based I've been using revolut for a year now. My only complaint
with all these "new banks" is: none of them supports Apple Pay.

Maybe now that N26 is going to become a real bank supporting Apple Pay will
become a possibility?

~~~
spatzle
Apple Pay is already supported by N26, in countries where Apple Pay is
available.

~~~
lloeki
Confirmed: using it all the time because banks in France (except Banque
Populaire) are hell-bent on not supporting Apple Pay, pushing their weight
around for the local clusterfuck that is PayLib.

~~~
Rjevski
Reminds me of CurrentC, an equivalent and equally stupid attempt by US
supermarket chains.

------
stadeschuldt
I looked into N26 but their lack of HBCI support was a deal breaker for me.

------
wslh
It would be great to create a new bank from scratch solving basic issues
current banks have. The difficult part is the regulatory aspect if they want
to operate in different states beyound EU.

~~~
CalRobert
I think they aim to expand to the US. I'm an N26 customer and US citizen and
they asked me to chat with them (paid) about whether I'd use them in the US,
etc. (I quite like them, tbf)

~~~
snovv_crash
As a US citizen using N26 in the EU, my main complaint is that I can't have
any savings accounts (FATCA blah blah blah), so my entire balance is in the
checking account that is flashed on the screen when I log in, and linked to my
cards.

I don't want something with a high interest rate, or stock picker, just a way
of putting a firewall between the cards and my cash.

~~~
CalRobert
Huh, FATCA means you can't have a savings account? I'm also a US citizen using
N26 in the EU and hadn't realized that - thought it was because I wasn't in
Germany. I haven't pursued savings mostly because the rates are pathetic.

~~~
WordSkill
Technically, you _can_ have a savings account, but the paperwork burden for
the foreign bank is so high that it breaks that product's financial model, so,
they don't make it available to Americans.

Living and working in Asia for many years, I always sympathized with the
difficulties my American expat friends had in trying to open any sort of local
bank account at all, even a current account. Most banks say no the minute they
hear you're a US citizen.

Not being able to open a bank account in the country in which you live has
serious knock-on effects in terms of getting paid, or renting a home. I am
eternally amazed that American citizens, who supposedly value personal
freedom, put up with having one of the world's most aggressive tax regimes.

~~~
CalRobert
It's not fun, but it only affects a small percentage of voters so likely
nothing will happen. The fee to renounce is ridiculous too.

------
homakov
A year ago I had $100 balance and my $50 payment to some cafe turned it into
$150. They added money instead of deducting it. That was fixed soon but that's
how I still feel about N26.

------
dawhizkid
Maybe banks outside the US are terrible, but honestly in the US I find most
"big banks" to be completely fine. JPM Chase, Amex, and Cap 1 started heavily
investing in their digital units years ago and IMO it shows. Would not say the
experience is perfect but I don't need perfect UX...I need reliability and
stability.

One reason I would never move my primary banking to a startup is customer
service. There's absolutely no way that a startup is going to have 24/7
online/phone support like the big banks do.

~~~
kuschku
One major advantage of N26 is that they’re the only bank in Germany offering a
free credit or debit card _without conditions_.

All other banks require either > 30€/year fee for the card, or > X€/month
income, or > X€/month spending.

Even the Amazon credit card has a 60€/year fee.

EDIT: Regarding the comments suggesting dozens of banks – they all have some
conditions. You can’t open an account that only holds a balance for a few days
per year, and is only ever used to pay e.g. Namecheap or the Google Play
developer fee. Most people don’t want or need a CC in daily life, only to
interact with shitty startups or US companies that assume everyone has a CC.

~~~
germanier
Neither ING-DiBa nor Consorbank charge a fee for their current account with
debit Visa nor does DKB for their current account with credit Visa. They also
don't require income or spending. There are other free credit cards as well
such as those offered by Barclaycard, Santander, or Advanzia.

~~~
kuschku
As discussed in the other subthread, I suggest you open an account with them,
do not ever hold any balance on the account, and only transfer a few euros per
year in and back out per CC.

I bet they’ll either close your account, or, if you tell them ahead of time,
never even allow you to open it in the first place.

~~~
germanier
My DKB account stayed unused for 4 years and they have made no attempt to
close it (instead send a new credit card after mine was invalid).

And why the heck would you tell them ahead of time? Of course they will
consider that then.

------
mlamat
I have had N26 for more than a year. I use it for shopping, as a secondary
account. I don't use cash anymore.

I've had no problems. But why do they have the "Statistics" button on their
website if I couldn't use it since I registered???

