
Cameras that guess age and sex are coming to store shelves - pseudolus
https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/cameras-targeted-advertising-1.5107784
======
est31
The prior generation of surveillance based on programs where you had to sign
up first, got some card or something, and you scanned it during each purchase.
These programs were opt in, and I never did. This new generation is on by
default and doesn't let you opt out. That's a very troubling development.

~~~
iagooar
I'm sure it will not pass GDPR in the EU, so we Europeans got that going for
ourselves, which is nice.

~~~
onion2k
If the article is correct then this is not using any personally identifiable
information (the cameras will apparently report "40 year old man, very grumpy"
instead of "onion2k"), so the GDPR legislation won't help.

If the stores tie the facial data to a credit card or store rewards card then
the GDPR might stop them retaining or sharing the information.

~~~
JohnFen
But they certainly are gathering personally identifiable information, namely
your face. I don't know the details of the GDPR, but doesn't it cover data
collection as well as use?

~~~
icebraining
Yes, it covers all "processing", meaning "any operation or set of operations
which is performed on personal data or on sets of personal data, whether or
not by automated means, such as collection, recording, organisation,
structuring, storage, adaptation or alteration, retrieval, consultation, use,
disclosure by transmission, dissemination or otherwise making available,
alignment or combination, restriction, erasure or destruction".

Applying some ML algorithm to personal data certainly fits.

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peeters
I always wonder if the people that invent these technologies are bragging,
like: "You know all the crazy dystopian technology that has ruined the world
in futuristic sci-fi movies? I make that!"

~~~
NikkiA
They see them as not-dystopic and think the ideas portrayed are cool and that
they're the good guys bringing the masses technology that we want.

~~~
peeters
I get that argument for Twitter. I don't get that argument for taking
something that the masses already hate and making it even more invasive and
annoying.

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DarkWiiPlayer
Can't wait to read how racist and sexist these cameras are.

Too bad this would be illegal in Europe though. I'd love to see what the algo
tries to sell to me. Amazon already thinks I'm a complete weirdo.

EDIT: Amazon is probably right though

~~~
kmlx
i’ve seen such systems all across europe. they’re as illegal as cctv, i.e. not
at all.

~~~
icebraining
CCTV is allowed if used exclusively for security purposes (Art. 6 (1) (f)).
These devices are not equivalent.

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lazyjones
We've had this in some pharmacies (of all places) here in Vienna since 2017.
They claim it's all offline and used for ads only, but nobody really believes
it. Bayer had also installed some in Germany, but stopped using them after
backlash from privacy NGOs.

Incidentally, in the same year, a lot of facial recognition tech was installed
in train stations and other places after the terror attacks in Europe...

~~~
rhn_mk1
> a lot of facial recognition tech was installed in train stations and other
> places after the terror attacks in Europe...

Do you have any more info on that?

~~~
lazyjones
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/02/facial-
recogniti...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/02/facial-recognition-
software-catch-terrorists-tested-berlin-station/)

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ccozan
Actually I am more interested in the tech. Screens instead of the glass doors
sounds quite interesting. Does anyone know who manufactures them? Maybe some
sort of AR would be interesting too, where you can actually see the product,
but interact on the screen with it.

Besides that, cameras at the shelf are a bit shady, but shops have already
surveillance cameras so not sure how this really affects the general
perception ( maybe only because they are hidden? ).

~~~
tdeck
Here you go: [https://www.coolerscreens.com](https://www.coolerscreens.com)

(I too think this is awful)

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atorodius
And what exactly is the benefit for me as a customer? I wished the future was
less flashy and ad-packed. So much mental overhead in ignoring this stuff

~~~
yellow_postit
More relevant ads and targeted offers of course. Now whether you value that as
a consumer and have a realistic way to avoid it is an entirely different
question.

~~~
llukas
More relevant to whom? Shop, vendor?

We cant get relevant ads done properly on the internet and we'd have better
ones based on age/gender?

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BoorishBears
They’ve been in stores. Years ago I was working on retail installations that
had everything needed to do this, we even tested it internally before deciding
it wasn’t worth trying to sell to our clients

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Chazprime
This recalls that scene in _Minority Report_ where Tom Cruise is getting
peppered with virtual ads left & right after walking into a mall.

The thought makes me shudder a little.

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manishsharan
I just can't wait for a drone , triggered by camera that identified my race
,to follow me around and take pictures when I go shopping at Nordstrom or
Saks.

Good times for all minorities are coming !! see china for reference.

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jak92
Thanks. Then I won't shop online or in store..

~~~
mc32
The only refuge will be the stingy mom and pops who don’t have the money to do
something like this. Of course someone will come up with a leasing service for
them and do some revenue sharing, eventually...

~~~
JohnFen
Or maybe we'll see the rise of people who go into the business of shopping for
you...

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plaidfuji
Of all popular sci-fi movies, Minority Report remains the most prescient. Or
should I say precognitive?

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mindslight
It's high time for the lawful to start a fashion of routinely wearing face-
obscuring garments. If the USian philosophy is that companies are free to do
whatever they want with surveillance, then the rational response is to stop
leaking that information in the first place.

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goda90
What kind of accessories could you wear to confuse these cameras without
standing out too much?

~~~
mdorazio
The "without standing out too much" part is the problem. You could use any of
the face paint / jewel techniques that work on face detection algorithms in
general [1], but they're all pretty obvious unless your personal style is
already quite non-mainstream.

[1] [https://cvdazzle.com/](https://cvdazzle.com/)

~~~
mywittyname
I bet this won't be weird in the future. Kids are naturally rebellious and I
could see a situation where it becomes fashionable to hide your face using
these techniques.

~~~
JohnFen
Not just kids. I'm a past-middle-aged man, and it's not terribly hard to see
me doing that sort of thing, if this stuff becomes difficult enough to avoid.

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BuildTheRobots
Tangentially related, but this guy had a poem-taking camera at EMFcamp last
year:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wrsHXaCME](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wrsHXaCME)

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mabbo
Jokes on them: I'm 33 but have acted like a 50-something-year-old since I was
25.

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sneakernets
All I can say is "good luck", because I fool humans all the time.

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tomhoward
Also discussed a few months ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19268290](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19268290)

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howard941
Connect up that credit card reader to a camera at the checkout register and
now those cameras guess your identity.

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kmlx
this is such an old problem: how to passively measure feedback from users in
realtime in offline locations. i’ve seen all kinds of solutions so far, but
nothing stands out. hopefully these new systems will eventually produce
something more actionable.

~~~
JohnFen
> how to passively measure feedback from users in realtime in offline
> locations.

How about: just don't do that?

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pjmorris
"Hello Mr. Yakamoto and welcome back to the GAP!" \- Minority Report

~~~
JohnFen
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who found that just as chilling as the
whole precrime thing...

~~~
pjmorris
You aren't alone.

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stevehawk
Is it different to have software and cameras doing this than the cashiers?

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JohnFen
What cashiers are doing this? I haven't encountered them.

