
UK unveils new Tempest fighter jet - dmmalam
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44848294
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roryisok
I'm not an aerospace nerd. I think I was once, in my teenage years, but that
was a long time ago and I don't know what I'm talking about. Here is my
completely unqualified opinion.

It seems like manned fighter bomber aircraft are fast becoming an outdated
concept. Drones can be lighter, turn harder and crucially not endanger the
life of the operator. Why is the MOD committing £2bn to building new ones?
Fighter aircraft historically take _decades_ to be developed. The current
typhoon mentioned in the article began life in 1983, before I had my teenage
plane fascination and subscription to takeoff magazine, and as far as I know
the UK is still waiting on delivery of some of the initial orders, 35 years
later. We can assume that this tempest isn't going to be delivered until at
least 2040 at which point drones will be phenomenally more capable than they
are now. A fighter built to be flown by a human but also function as a drone
_as an afterthought_ will have next to no hope against whatever unmanned tech
exists then. Unmanned planes, built from scratch to be pilotless can be much
much lighter because they need no human support systems (air, controls,
ejector seat) They can also iterate a lot faster because they don't need to
meet safety standards. This thing feels like a dinosaur already, by _todays_
tech.

Pouring £2bn into a fighter in 2018 seems like a completely political move, a
Brexit bluff and mere posturing from Theresa May.

But maybe I'm wrong. Somebody explain why I'm wrong?

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rayiner
My experience in the field is about 15 years old at this point, but here is my
take on it. Your supposition is premised on one of two things: (1) drone AI
that can out-think a human; or (2) perfect communications between drones and
an operator on the ground.

These are unsolved, and very difficult problems. The state-of-the-art right
now is that we have trouble getting back the video feeds from our
reconnaissance drones due to limitations in the downlink system. Drones also
create new attack vectors--you might be able to ground hundreds of drones by
taking out a handful of satellites or communications hubs.

It is possible that these obstacles can be overcome. But waiting on technology
to be where you need it to be can be a very iffy thing. (Cue: "we were
supposed to by on Mars by 2025."). I certainly wouldn't gamble the national
defense on it.

~~~
rwmj
It seems like what you need is a manned fighter that stays in the air some
distance behind a fleet of semi-autonomous drones doing the actual
fighting/killing. The pilot acts as an officer, selecting targets and
providing general orders, while his or her plane provides the short-range
encrypted comms which are hard to intercept or interrupt.

~~~
smilekzs
Did you mean: air to air missiles

EDIT: active or semi-active guided

~~~
detaro
Probably more like flying missile-pods?

~~~
smilekzs
When does the recursion stop?

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yborg
Apart from BAE flogging their kit, I don't see what the point of this exercise
is. There is zero chance of this being built by the UK, which can barely
afford the nuke subs it has which are its main military threat.

~~~
sgt101
The big spend in the UK defence budget is Eurofighter/Typhoon @ £23bn. Astute
comes in at £1bn per pop, £7bn total program cost (I believe), future SSBN
will be similar.

Turkey and India are trying to develop fighters as well, the UK has the tech
to build these, there are markets.

~~~
adventured
It's pretty tough when you've got Russia and China out there competing with
you and you're running from behind.

The Tempest looked interesting, until I saw the hoping to fly by 2035 part,
which really means 2040 or later.

It's really a technology make-work project to keep their skills up and retain
defense capability, which isn't a terrible idea so long as the cost is tightly
contained.

~~~
Zarathust
Russia announced the abandonment of the su-57 yesterday.
[https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/russi...](https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/russias-
stealthkiller-fighter-project-has-been-abandoned/news-
story/03e50ea76d6a5dfb5aaac69b9c75fbd6)

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jabl
I've been a fan of the original Tempest since reading Clostermann's book as a
kid.

One of the finest late War piston engined planes, in my non-expert opinion.
Too few (and too late) produced to have any major impact on the course of the
war, though.

~~~
baud147258
That book was awesome! It

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dmmalam
Better info: [https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-unveils-new-next-
generati...](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-unveils-new-next-generation-
fighter-jet-called-tempest/)

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lujim
Man these 5th gen fighters are unattractive. Even the F-22 being the best
looking of the bunch looks blah from several angles.

~~~
sgt101
I saw the F35's in the air over east Anglia this week - they looked pretty
cool in the flesh.

~~~
thebooktocome
Here I thought the F-35 was mostly made of vapour.

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asplake
“The hope is to see it flying by 2035.” Sigh.

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frockington
I'd say this is more possible than the "Ban on fossil fuels by 2040" deadline

~~~
zokier
Realistic or not, the timeline comes pretty straight from the plan of retiring
Typhoon in 2040. So of course the target date for the replacement would be
2035, regardless of what it is.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they end up extending Typhoons
service life by a decade or so.

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king_nothing
Their hangers must be called teapots. Or would it be kettle?

