
Xiaomi unveils concept phone with near bezel-less display - zhangshine
https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/25/xiaomi-unveils-concept-phone-with-near-bezel-less-display/
======
LeifCarrotson
Things I don't particularly care about in a phone:

\- Bezel size

\- Weight

\- Thickness

\- Manufacturer-specific apps and skins

\- Screen resolution beyond that of my eyes

\- Fastest possible processor

Things I care about in a phone:

\- Ability to make calls

\- Battery life

\- Replaceable battery

\- Fits in my pocket

\- Expandable storage

\- Durable

\- Decent camera

\- Inexpensive

\- Gets security updates

And what do the latest phones feature? Super-thin, super-light phones with
consequently small batteries that are overburdened by enormous screens and
processors that could run a laptop, and screens that would also fit a laptop.
They cost $600 and more, when nearly-equivalent technology can bring the cost
down to less than half that.

At least we're getting better cameras (though this would be easier with
thicker phones) and waterproofing for durability. Wireless charging also seems
to help with the longevity of the ports.

~~~
justinhj
Sounds like you'd be fine with a flip phone from 10 years ago and a small high
quality camera. You don't seem to be the target audience for the latest
smartphones.

~~~
Leynos
About 4 years ago, Sony Ericsson made an Android 2.3 phone called the Xperia
Ray. It had a 3.7" 960x480 screen. I used it for 2 years (and again for
another year after I broke the Huawei P6 I replaced it with). By the end of
that time, it was really past its useable life. Not on account of build
quality, battery life, or screen realestate. In all those respects it was
fantastic, and still perfectly functional as a feature phone.

It started life as a perfectly servicable Android phone. A little on the slow
side, but not drastically so. The main problem was its 384MB of backing store.
By 2015, very few Android apps supported installing to the SD card, and Google
Play Services managed to eat almost all of the available storage.

Ideally, I'd like a modern phone with the same size and build quality of the
Xperia Ray, the phone that fits unnoticably into my pocket and survived
countless falls onto hard floors. I don't think it even needs to be super
fast. Just with enough backing store to function as a modern Android device.

And knowing that such devices are possible is the reason I don't agree with
the "you'd probably be fine with a feature phone" answer.

At the moment, I'm using a Z5 Compact. It's a great phone with solid build
quality, but it's still too big IMO.

~~~
GFischer
Quite a lot of people have asked me about a small but powerful Android phone,
and there are none!

It's incredible, but all companies go in the same direction. In the very few
instances when they do innovate, they go in really odd directions (curve
displays, in-built projectors), but they don't address basic stuff like size
or physical keyboard.

~~~
khedoros1
I'm considering buying an Xperia X Compact. It's about the size I think I'd be
happy with, Sony devices tend to have great development communities, and Sony
itself provides a means to unlock the phone's bootloader, and to compile AOSP
for the device.

Of course, it fails in the "cheap" dimension, and also on "size" and
"replaceable battery" ones. Still, as far as things that would be considered
compact in the current smartphone market, it looks like close to the only
option.

~~~
GFischer
I recommended the Xperia Compact line to a coworker, and she says it's still
too big. She wants it to fit comfortably on a woman's pocket. Something
Motorola Razr-sized (about 20% smaller than the Xperia compact).

~~~
khedoros1
I can see that being a problem. Anyone that has tiny pockets and doesn't want
to carry around a separate bag is mostly up a creek these days, even with
phones that the market considers tiny.

------
idanb
I recently bought a Samsung Edge for Samsung Gear development, and went abroad
for a few weeks so ended up using it with the SIM card for that country while
still keeping my phone alive.

Apart from the benefits of the edge "design" not being too relevant for me,
the biggest issue I had was accidentally hitting notifications when I pulled
the phone out of my pocket. At one point I somehow accidentally deleted an
app, or something that resulted in the app being removed from the phone
entirely. Granted I was travelling, doing a lot of hiking and so perhaps it
was more aggressive handling than normal - but in general I found that not
having an edge on the phone really hindered my ability to use it, and forced
me to be extra careful in handling of the phone in regular use as well as when
I pulled it out of my pocket or back in.

I've been seeing a lot of these "edge less" screens and a lot of other
features that people don't really care about, with a move away from what
customers actually want. Like removing the headphone port in the iPhone 7 or
going in this direction with edge to edge screens and making the phone thinner
and thinner but faster and faster (meaning less battery life, and spottier
performance since the CPU needs to be throttled).

Smart phones have been a commodity for a bit now - and the important things
are the incremental improvements in battery life, performance, screen
resolutions and graphics, networking efficiency and most importantly the
services that power the phone which is effectively a way to access the
internet.

~~~
matt_wulfeck
I had a similar issue with places Android phones typically place a standalone
"back" button, the bottom right of a phone. When reaching across the phone
with my thumb I would constantly bump this back button. The experience was so
frustrating on a Galaxy S3 that I change to an iPhone.

I wondered if they have done enough user experience researching how people use
the phone. I can't believe I'm the only person who ran into this issue. It's
something I've come to admire with Apple products. They're very polished and I
rarely run into experiences like what I had bumping the back button on my old
S3.

~~~
idanb
That drove me crazy too - cap-sense buttons have been largely a customer
experience fail, so not sure why it's gone on this long. I'm a big fan of the
tactile "bump" feedback, and it's way too easy to do something by accident for
even the most careful user.

It's funny how Apple did the "no buttons thing" because they were responding
to a tech ecosystem that had a button for everything at the cost of the user
getting overwhelmed. However, now there's no sanity in the other direction -
with people avoiding buttons and making things so streamlined that they're
harder to use.

In every age there's an innovate response to a cliche, but ultimately this
becomes a cliche in of itself :)

------
neals
Without the bezels, all our phones will look the same. We'll be holding a slab
of pixels with some OS, with some voice-activated assistent, with some apps.
More or less the same. Even more so than now.

~~~
kbody
Personally, I'm more function over form so and I can't imagine having a bezel-
less phone that won't be a nightmare to use (using one hand).

~~~
serg_chernata
I'm not a fan either but Galaxy S Edge is quite popular and I think it has
sides that are far more prone to unintended interactions. Yet, I never hear of
anyone having that issue.

~~~
romanhn
I have the Edge and frankly i hate this gimmick precisely for that reason.
Never used cases on my previous phones, but will be looking for one this time.
Love the extra large battery though, so it's not all bad.

------
mtw
I really like the design (better imho than Google Pixel). Hope they get some
success and Apple/Google/Samsung take note to refresh with newer designs

~~~
dingo_bat
> better imho than Google Pixel

That's not saying much at all.

~~~
cbr
I had thought people we're pretty excited about the new Pixel phone? Like
[http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/18/13304090/google-pixel-
pho...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/18/13304090/google-pixel-phone-review-
pixel-xl) etc.

Or am I just in a bubble as a Google employee, where I hear disproportionately
good responses to our stuff?

~~~
tdkl
Perhaps excited before it came out and the price was announced. Also The Verge
!= people.

It's a great Android phone, but since iPhone costs the same and they've upped
the ante with i7 this year (stereo speakers, waterproofness), there's not much
pro points toward the Pixel. Support stays the same, two years of update, one
extra for security and then you're dead in the water, compared to 4-5 years
with iPhone.

Unless you really love the Google bubble with AI and data collection.

~~~
rifung
> Unless you really love the Google bubble with AI and data collection.

I know this might come as a surprise but some people prefer Android to iOS.
The Pixel seems to fare well compared to other Android phones, especially when
you don't want any skins.

------
Tepix
This gorgeous phone has a 2040x1080 17:9 6.4" 360ppi display. That's a new
form factor I haven't seen anywhere else. As long as the phone is not used for
VR, 360ppi is plenty.

Regarding the front camera placement, that's somewhat inconvenient, on the
other hand I don't use the front camera that much.

If Apple manages to integrate the home button into the display (as rumored)
they could make the usable area even larger than 91.3%.

~~~
tromp
To see how impressive 91.3% is, just look at this table

[https://08-08-08.com/2016/06/12/screen_to_bezel_mid_2016/](https://08-08-08.com/2016/06/12/screen_to_bezel_mid_2016/)

where phones are absolutely struggling to reach a mere 79%...

------
wh0rth
I've been wondering when the bezel would disappear for good. I don't doubt
that it adds the the appeal of the phone, but I also wonder if it has any
downsides from a usability standpoint.

~~~
in_the_sticks
I've got a Sharp Aquos Crystal. If I use it without a case, it will frequently
register touch events on the edges of the screen just from holding it. There's
no way to hold it that will prevent this.

~~~
papa_bear
I have the same issue with my galaxy s7 edge. It's incredibly frustrating to
use without a case.

~~~
StRoy
That's all really a software issue. The iPad Mini allows you to hold it even
with your thumb touching the screen and it works perfectly fine, for example.

[http://www.slashgear.com/ipad-mini-thumb-rejection-
technolog...](http://www.slashgear.com/ipad-mini-thumb-rejection-technology-
revealed-23253576/)

If google integrated that kind of thumb/holding hand rejetection to android
(since most android manufacturers seem too incompetent to do it themselves) we
could absolutely see an era of bezel-less devices that works fine.

~~~
rawTruthHurts
Well, that sounds like "we'll fix it in post"

------
alexc05
I don't know, how "tightly coupled" is the glass of that screen with the rest
of the device?

I have an iPad pro. When the screen grew a crack, I called to inquire about
the cost of a replacement screen and was quoted at roughly 2/3 the price of a
new device.

god bless the woman at Apple support who "pulled a string for me" and issued
an RMA.

the replacement has also grown a hairline fracture despite what I would
consider "careful use" (which I am fully aware makes it look like a PEBCAK
issue, but I'm standing by my claim that I knew how lucky I was and have in no
way tempted fate)

I'd happily trade a bezel-less design for one where the screen could be
swapped for a fiver. (Or one that doesn't crack at all I guess!)

~~~
adventurer
I'm curious to know if any phone is made like this. The Surface is also almost
impossible to replace on your own and about the same cost as you mention.

------
martin_henk
It is probably the same tech as Sharp Crystal phone for Sprint. Foxconn bought
Sharp and starts peddling its tech?

~~~
semi-extrinsic
No, a friend of mine works in the startup Elliptic Labs that is working with
Xiaomi on this. Their tech replaces the usual IR sensor package above the
phone screen with an ultrasound based sensor that can sit behind the display.

~~~
martin_henk
I see... Would like to know how they do the bezel less part construction wise.
Sharp uses the topglass as a kind of lens. That lenseffect 'covers' the actual
bezel beneath...

------
dmix
What a beautiful phone. I've wanted to get a Xiaomi phone to play around with
for a long time. It's a shame they're so hard to get a hold of in North
America. Need more friends in China...

~~~
totalZero
You can get Chinese phones in the States, but American 4G LTE doesn't work on
the radio channels they support.

------
pault
I want a _monitor_ with a bezel-less display. Do they exist?

~~~
redwards510
I've read forums about hardcore gamers who remove the bezels on certain
monitors in order to group them together for seamless FPS displays. You can
probably find it by searching.

~~~
pault
Yeah, this is my use case. I've seen a few of those setups and they're not
bad. I want to max out the resolution on a single geforce 1080 (7680 x 4320)
with 3 4k monitors in portrait mode.

------
slacka
As long as the touch sensor is extents past the display, the bezel can be a
very useful feature for touch-screen based devices. Having swipes that begin
off screen for OS-level commands like pulling down the notification bar or
switching apps is a very intuitive and logical gesture. Without a bezel, you
have to go back to needing off-screen buttons for these actions.

------
hawski
I hope that bezel-less-ness race will result in irrelevance of hardware form.
What I care the most is the software. Hardware now is mostly good enough. Than
maybe they would go die and it would be just like PC-s. I just want to have
something good enough with reasonably supported software.

Is it wishful thinking? Or are we close?

I know that they still can push crapware.

------
nicolewhite
Interesting that they're sticking with the Note brand. You'd think they'd want
to distance themselves from that as people have already associated Note with
phones that catch on fire. But perhaps their target market is focused enough
that misinformation won't be an issue.

~~~
djrogers
Given that this is a company who's product line is largely based on stealing
stuff rather than native innovation, it's not surprising that they are still
using the Note branding they stole from Samsung. Let's just hope hey don't
steal the 'burst in to flames' feature too.

------
ruipgil
Sharp had a similar phone. Samsung had the Edge, which is near bezel-less from
the sides. And those are not concept phones, at least the edge is not.

Sarcastically, the success of these phones are dictated by how reliably they
can be used, not by the size of their bezel.

------
deadfish
I once owned Xiaomi mi2 (their second phone) and the usb socket melted when
charging. After I posted it on Chinese twitter they were quick to offer a
refund.

I hope their quality has improved since then. I guess at least the battery
didn't explode :D

------
Karunamon
I can't possibly be the only one that laments the fact that all smartphones
look basically the same after the iPhone took off. Candybar slates with
massive screens and questionable batteries and life. No sliders, no flips,
nothing new or interesting in hardware. Now, only featureless slabs with
barely a physical button in sight, differentiated more by the images they
display on screen and less their components.

Eventually we'll wind up with a phone that's all screen and no bezel, and then
where do we go?

It feels like we lost something.

~~~
GFischer
You're not the only one. But most diversions from the norm failed :( and large
companies are afraid to innovate. LG's attempts are weird.

My hope is now on Chinese companies like Xiaomi to do something different :)

Also, Google hinders innovation by preventing hardware buttons. I miss the
Photo button from my old Nokias the most, but also to answer the phone and
other functions.

~~~
morsch
How is Google preventing hardware buttons? Sony's most recent phones (Xperia
X) have dedicated photo buttons; and that's a longstanding Xperia feature. I
doubt they're the only ones.

Android defaults to on-screen bottom-row buttons (to reduce bezel size), but
the OS supports off-screen buttons just fine, and phones with dedicated
buttons exist.

~~~
GFischer
I'm obviously mistaken then, sorry. I believe I read that at one time there
were some rules or guidelines for hardware manufacturers that wanted to be
Google certified (and have Play Store and all that). I'm trying to google that
and coming up short, so I must have been confused.

------
xHopen
It's a horrible design

------
tdkl
Video of the phone in action :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXjklyo5Is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXjklyo5Is)

Not exactly bezel-less like on the photos, but still interesting.

~~~
tdkl
Even better look by MKBHD:
[https://youtu.be/m7plA1ALkQw](https://youtu.be/m7plA1ALkQw)

Seems they went all in and sent the phone to some prominent YouTube reviewers
as well.

------
imaginenore
Sharp did it 2 years ago with their Aquos Crystal

Image:
[http://resize.indiatvnews.com/en/centered/oldbucket/750_533/...](http://resize.indiatvnews.com/en/centered/oldbucket/750_533/businessindia/Sharp-
launches-13937.jpg)

~~~
OverThere
Did anyone actually use this phone? If so, what are your thoughts?

~~~
in_the_sticks
It was fine if you kept it in a case. That protects from the errant touch
events I mentioned in another comment here, as well as making it so I don't
have to look at the back cover.

Maybe unrelated, I've had the phone for probably two years (it supposedly came
out two years ago as well - didn't think I bought a brand new phone but I
guess I did). Recently (past month or so), it's started rebooting at random
throughout the day. I'd do a factory reset if I didn't dread the thought of
dealing with all of my 2FA stuff.

~~~
tdkl
> didn't dread the thought of dealing with all of my 2FA stuff

That's where Authy backup is gold.

------
ungzd
No bezel and no security updates.

~~~
jacek
You are probably wrong. Although most Chinese manufacturers do not provide
updates, Xiaomi's record has been stellar in this respect.

------
joshmn
Sigh.

My dream phone:

Palm Pre, an upgraded display (5" would be perfect), the Play Store (but on
WebOS), an extended battery, and no keyboard.

Please, hardware Gods, hear me.

------
curiousgal
The problem with most chinese brands (Xiaomi, Mijue, etc.) is the non-existing
software updates.

~~~
devereaux
You have a very biased view.

The real problem with phones made for China is that they don't support LTE
bands from North America.

That's bad because I would love to have such a nice phone, but not at the
expense of going back to 3G.

~~~
tdkl
This might change in the future, the upcoming Xiaomi phones will have much
more bands supported.

