
McDonald’s High-Tech Makeover Is Stressing Workers Out - JumpCrisscross
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-13/worker-exodus-builds-at-mcdonald-s-as-mobile-app-sows-confusion
======
gamblor956
For the many commenters who clearly did not read the linked article, the issue
is not automation eliminating workers' jobs but rather that workers are
leaving due to the stress created by new technology such as mobile ordering
vastly increasing their workloads without a corresponding increase in salary.

This is a problem because unemployment is currently very low, and the lack of
staff leads to longer serving times which leads to fewer customers as they
shift to competing chains which are properly staffed to handle crushes.

~~~
malvosenior
As I say in my comment, McDonalds states that there is no additional turnover
tied to new initiatives. The article fails to make the case it’s trying to
make instead opting for a single anecdote by a worker. No data is provided
that would tie new tech to increased turnover.

~~~
gamblor956
The article states that McD's turnover has increased at the same time as the
new tech initiatives were introduced, and far outpaces all of their
competitors. It's a clear correlation, especially in the _absence of industry-
wide causes or other changes to McD 's workplace conditions_.

~~~
masonic

      The article states that McD's turnover has increased
    

It says nothing of the kind. The word "turnover" does not even appear.
_Turnover_ means that workers are leaving and are _directly replaced_ ; in
fact, the article refers only to _jobs_ leaving... for good.

~~~
maxerickson
The Bloomberg article this HN discussion links sure does discuss turnover.

------
malvosenior
There’s not really any information in the article to back up the premise. They
interview one worker who complains about getting in trouble when he messes up
with new processes. In fact McDonalds directly contradicts the headline:

 _”McDonald’s and its franchisees haven’t seen an increase in crew turnover
over the last year, nor is there a correlation between the new initiatives and
turnover, spokeswoman Terri Hickey said in an emailed statement.”_

I’m not sure what this article is meant to convey other than a vague swipe at
progress.

------
tiredwired
I went to a McDonald's yesterday. The cashier stepped away from the register
as I was walking up. I turned around and walked a few feet to the touchscreen
order system and entered my order. At the payment screen it said to take a
number card to my table. No number cards were left and 4 people were now in
line at the register. I turned around and left. Jack In The Box was down the
street.

~~~
jonny_eh
You can cancel and start again to do a pickup. It's crazy that they don't have
a button that says "There are no more number coasters, do pickup instead"

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Pickup is the only option for the kiosks at a McDonalds in China. I'm sort of
surprised McDonalds in the USA has that option.

------
danans
For a historical perspective on McDonalds and its defining role over the last
60+ years at the intersection of food, technology, labor, business, and
culture, there's hardly a better book than Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation.
Old fashioned muckraking journalism at it's best.

------
gt_
> _Already, drive-through times at McDonald’s slowed to 239 seconds last year
> -- more than 30 seconds slower than in 2016, according to QSR magazine. It’s
> also pokier than Burger King, Wendy’s and Taco Bell._

Can someone describe what “pokier” means in this sentence?

~~~
Aloha
Slow.

Look up the work poky - this is a derivative of that.

~~~
SyneRyder
That seems to be a definition specific to North America (so it would apply
here). The definition I get for poky is:

"(of a room or building) uncomfortably small and cramped"

~~~
DrScump
As an _adjective_ , it means slow.

As a _noun_ , it generally refers to a detention room, or jail. (For example,
on "NYPD Blue", the "poky room" was where they detained suspects for
interviews, and within it was a lockable cage.)

------
tracker1
My favorite fast food place lately is "Salad And Go", not sure how many there
are, they're here in Phoenix. Usually from order completion to transaction
complete is under 60 seconds. Rarely is there a car between the order box and
the window. The hard thing is they have gotten very popular at lunch and the
drive-through line is out to the street.

McD's usually gets my orders wrong, not that they're even particularly hard.
It's been really hit and miss... I wonder what the satisfaction/turnover at
places with smaller menus is... In-n-out, 5-guys, etc.

------
kin
Wow what a coincidence, I actually just had a terrible experience at
McDonald's yesterday. I tried ordering through the mobile app and they got my
order wrong. When I went to get this fixed, the employees were busy fixing 3
other orders they had wrong. There's a ton of room for human error when
electronic ordering allows for more customization.

I can also see the reason for slowdown. Before, they had a cashier queue to
control the flow of orders. Now with mobile and kiosk orders, they've pretty
much tripled their traffic of orders while keeping fulfillment the same.

------
ericmcer
"Last year, McDonald’s said it employed 235,000 people, including corporate
and restaurant workers. Each of those people generated $97,000 in revenue,
compared to about $65,000 the year before."

I don't understand the problem, McDonalds is not in the business of helping
its employees, it is not in the business of creating quality, healthy food.
Its business is squeezing as much work and money as it possibly can out of its
workers and customers. This is a huge success by that metric, and I am sure it
is the only metric the upper management really cares about.

~~~
DrScump

      McDonald’s said it employed 235,000 people, including corporate and restaurant workers
    

That count represents only the corporation and corporate-owned stores and
excludes the employees of _franchisees_. 1.5 _million_ work for
franchisees[0].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s)

------
aphextron
Fast food is the absolute worst job a person can possibly have in the United
States. It destroys your body, kills your spirit, and pays _less_ than nothing
when you consider the lack of health benefits and high possibility of injury.
I did it for years before learning to code, and it's work that no human being
should have to do. I don't know what will come next for low skilled people,
but I know the world will be a better place when we've reached a point
technologically that humans are free from this kind of labor.

~~~
tyingq
I worked at Wendy's during the 1980's (high school) and it wasn't bad. Minimum
wage and all, but any problems you encountered started and ended on the same
day, so stress wasn't really an issue.

What seems different these days is that most of the workers aren't high school
kids. That was the case in the 80's. Something about the job market where
people are trying to use entry level fast food jobs to support an adult life.

~~~
aphextron
>I worked at Wendy's during the 1980's (high school) and it wasn't bad.
Minimum wage and all, but any problems you encountered started and ended on
the same day, so stress wasn't really an issue.

That's the whole point of this article though. The workers in a busy McDonalds
restaurant today are being expected to make 10x the output you did as a
teenager in the 80's for wages that are _less_ than what you made, inflation
adjusted. A line cook in 1985 made about $4.50/hr, which is $10.50 in 2018
dollars [0]. In 2018, federal minimum wage is $7.25, and the are plenty of
McDonalds employees making that much across the country.

[https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1986/09/rpt1full.pdf](https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1986/09/rpt1full.pdf)
[0]

~~~
tyingq
I made $3.35 and worked my ass off in 1985. I was genuinely tired, though not
stressed at shift end. That 10x thing is pure bullshit. The extra stress is
solely because their paycheck is needed to survive, versus for some extra
money. I didn't have much idle time. Wendy's had a salad bar then and other
things (manual cash registers, less automation, no credit cards, less prefab
food, etc) that were arguably more work than today's world. Other stuff, like
degreasing the floor at shift end can't be any better or worse now. Didn't
need health insurance or other benefits though, and my paycheck went to
clothes, booze, and computer/electronic crap. Stuff my Mom wouldn't buy. I
wasn't stressing about how much my paycheck was.

------
SlowBro
If this trend continues e.g. more turnover plus longer waits, it seems to me
the wage necessary to attract and keep employees will necessarily rise,
putting pressure on owners to automate more. Or owners will want to automate
more to keep customers coming back, and shortcut more of the employee
headaches. No matter how I look at this, more automation is coming.

------
omegaworks
> Each of those people generated $97,000 in revenue

McDonalds crew members make $8.50 an hour. That's $17,680 at 40 hours a week.

[https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-
Salaries-E432.ht...](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-
Salaries-E432.htm)

~~~
ams6110
Revenue != Profit. You really have to control all your costs to just break
even in fast food. Of course in the case of McDonald's a good bit of that
revenue is also going to McDonald's Corp as franchise fees.

~~~
omegaworks
I am well aware of the difference. I am simply stating facts about the
business model of one of the most successful multinational corporations in the
world.

It's food for thought. We should not blind ourselves to the way institutions
allocate resources in our society.

------
skybrian
The chart in the article shows that productivity is up, so presumably they can
and should be paid more. Turnover may continue until that happens. Market
working as intended?

~~~
GarrisonPrime
Not sure they see the high turnover as a problem. Apparently there is no lack
of new people willing to put on the uniform.

~~~
wolco
With the lower unemployment there is a lack of quality workers willing to put
on the uniform. Someone will be there to give you your burger but it may not
be made right or on time or in a clean location.

------
adomanico
When I was in high school I worked at McDonalds and it was amazing how old
their systems were. Ancient DOS interfaces for everything.

------
mudil
Many economists been warning this for years: increase minimum wages and it
will hit the poorest the most.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Perhaps as the pace accelerates, those affected will vote for politicians who
want to tax automation revenue and fund safety nets.

Yes. Revenue, not profits. Why? See: Amazon

EDIT: dragonwriter's verbiage is preferred. Better we address it now before
pitchforks get handed out.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Perhaps as the pace accelerates, those affected will vote for politicians
> who want to tax automation revenue and fund safety nets.

Or, more simply, stop using high taxation on wage labor income to subsidize
preferential taxation of capital income.

------
originalsimba
Yes. It happened in the manufacture of all other consumer goods so why
wouldn't it happen in the manufacture of food?

If you look far enough into the future all manual labor will be performed by
machines. Don't be afraid of it, be aware of it. Adapt or die.

~~~
tracker1
I'm pretty sure plumbing... or for that matter maintaining any systems subject
to random wear, water or grease/debris will likely not be outsourced to
machines for a _very_ long time.

~~~
originalsimba
I bet it'll be sooner than you think, probably part of the robot revolution
that's being constructed in Italy and Japan and so on.

------
focusgroup0
An alternative headline:

Rising Minimum Wages Encourage Automation [0]

[0]
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregoryferenstein/2017/08/27/ne...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregoryferenstein/2017/08/27/new-
study-suggests-minimum-wage-leads-to-automation-of-low-skill-
workers/#4c2a90dd6ffa)

~~~
Fomite
Only if you failed to read the article.

