
State of Linux Gaming - lmedinas
http://richg42.blogspot.com/2014/11/state-of-linux-gaming.html
======
zamalek
This touches on a concern of mine:

> driver situation

Completely anecdotal:

I remember a few years back, when I was _much_ younger trying to get drivers
working for XOrg and compiz. I couldn't even manage a smooth GLGears. I
botched my installation multiple times with no indication of how to fix it.

Fast forward a few years and we have open source drivers that actually work.
Install Ubuntu, compiz works. Lovely, now maybe I see what the game situation
is like. I dig through the app store and find that game with the Tux luge.
2FPS. So I dig around in settings and find the option to install the "non-
free" drivers. Install them and I get my buttery-smooth 60FPS, I will continue
to get harassed about that fact that I'm scum who installs closed-source
software for the foreseeable future, by the OS. I can live with that.

So how would a 14 year old wanting to play games on Linux see this? Firstly,
he'd install a game such as Borderlands and try it out. He hits a wall with
dreadful framerate. One of two things, he goes back to a pirated copy of
Windows (most likely) or somehow finds out he needs the vendor kernel module:

He pulls down the compiler tools, which could take up to an hour in 3rd world
countries (first-hand experience). He then goes through the process of
changing the init level to 2, compiling the driver shim and installing it. He
then reboots his PC and XOrg crashes. Back to Windows or...

He discovers the Ubuntu automatic installer. Excellent! Just a few clicks
and... "non-free?" Does this mean I have to pay for it? Will I need my
parents' credit card? Why is there a warning sign? Am I doing something wrong?
Could this damage my hardware?

Let's say he figures it all out and wants to play some MP3s while he games...

It's friction the whole way. This is a very severe case of getting your
message mixed up with extremism. The situation of people using Linux is always
better than the situation of them using something like Windows, even if they
do have to use some non-free components to do so.

You can't change the world overnight, baby steps.

/rant

~~~
Nursie
>. He discovers the Ubuntu automatic installer. Excellent! Just a few clicks
and... "non-free?" Does this mean I have to pay for it? Will I need my
parents' credit card? Why is there a warning sign? Am I doing something wrong?
Could this damage my hardware?

This is how we learn. It's how I learned anyway. A bit of friction is good,
IMHO.

Obviously if you just want to install and play, it's less than ideal.

~~~
seanp2k2
This is, IMHO, the best part about getting your kids into PC gaming vs giving
them a console. I got very interested in scripting from seeing what scripts
could do in Quake 3. Console gaming doesn't offer the same opportunities for
learning / tinkering. This is not to say that games themselves can't offer a
level of exploration / tinkering, but you're still confined to a locked-down,
DRM'd, anti-cheat, closed-source appliance designed to just play the games,
not create / modify them.

------
fit2rule
This is the only really interesting thing going on in Linux gaming these days:

[http://openpandora.org/](http://openpandora.org/)

Why other vendors don't seem to get that you can get your entire OS for free,
all you need is great hardware and some love for developers, and you _can_
enter the hardware market and build a new platform, just for you and your
customers. It doesn't _have_ to be "only the majors can play" here - all it
takes is a smart core of people, executives who really truly _do_ "get it",
and a compelling reason to get yourself a community going, with real customers
whom you can communicate with.

Android, iOS? Yeah, okay. Kids, you don't have to play the Framework-user
dance. You can go find your own little plot of land, and have all the right
ingredients, to start your own garden. Just.. have the balls to do the hard
work. Its what kept the OpenPandora alive so far, in spite of it all, and the
game is _not_ over yet .. Pyra is on the horizon.

~~~
cwyers
Your case here would be stronger if the OpenPandora website didn't open up
with a video showing how their device enables you to play all the best video
games off the major consoles from 20 years ago. That's not building your own
garden, that's shoplifting from the grocery store.

~~~
ekianjo
> that's shoplifting from the grocery store.

so you don't know how to rip physical CDs from your PS1 for example ? That's
not that hard... All my ISOs come from there, and you can pretty much rip rom
contents from every console out there, with the right tool and hardware.

~~~
cwyers
No, I mean... emulation isn't building a garden. Emulation isn't building
anything. Emulation is... the kindest way of putting it is that it's
preservation. You're preserving what someone else already built. Maybe you're
restoring it, cleaning it up, adding value to it, but you're still relying on
the thing you're building upon.

My point is, it's really hard for the OpenPandora to be an alternative to the
proprietary consoles so long as its sales pitch is that it can run software
written for all the older proprietary consoles. You can't be an alternative to
something you're wholly dependent on.

~~~
fit2rule
There is a hell of a lot more to the OpenPandora than emulation. It may be
correct that they're not marketing it properly, but then again its also true
that the users know whats up:

[http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=all&cat=Game&s=top](http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=all&cat=Game&s=top)

~~~
cwyers
Resort that by most downloaded:

[http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=all&cat=Game&s=dl&ipp=10](http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=all&cat=Game&s=dl&ipp=10)

* Nintendo DS emulator * PSP emulator * Playstation emulator * Nintendo 64 emulator * Amiga 500/1200 emulator * Super Nintendo emulator * Sega Genesis emulator * MS DOS emulator * Arcade emulator * Game Boy Advanced emulator

Yeah, I'd say the users know what's up. I also suspect that it's being
marketed appropriately.

~~~
fit2rule
Emulators are fantastic! I don't know why you have a problem with them .. I
have a mass collection of cartridges for these systems from my youth, which I
have a right to access freely and legally, and I'm certainly not going to
disallow my kids from the opportunity of learning what those old machines were
like, since they've got the Pandora for precisely this purpose.

I would say what you are trying to say is that the Pandora is not a
'consumption' device, or 'consumer'-ish enough, and I would argue that your
definition of consumer and mine are widely invariate. Consumers of the Pandora
Emulator ecosystem are as valid as any other - or would you rather all these
carts and systems end up in the land-fill? Here's another lesson, then:
computers don't get old. Their users do.

For this purpose, be forever prepared to emulate/virtualize all the things!

------
vkjv
Personal anecdote. Out of the blue, my wife suggested that we play some Age of
Empires III. I don't have a Windows computer anymore so I decided to give it a
go in Linux Mint.

I used Crossover Linux (already had a license for MS Office) and it "just
worked". Everything from sound to full screen high quality graphics was
perfect. No input lag or anything else.

I understand that this is a game that's nearly a decade old but I am deeply
impressed by the quality here considering it wasn't even built for that
platform. It makes me wonder, how easily could developers support Linux if
they just decided to? It seems like it might not be the burden or overhead
that it once was.

~~~
tormeh
Especially now that C++ gets more platform-hiding features. System calls is
the enemy of portability. DirectX is still a pain in the ass, though the
attractivity of making OS X ports makes OpenGL more familiar to developers.

~~~
zanny
DirectX, at least version 9 for most old games from 2010 and earlier, is
almost a solved problem on Gallium drivers.

[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxNzU](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxNzU)

If there is a working DirectX state tracker, combined with a reimplementation
of the Windows API like Wine, you have fully native Windows binary games. All
the slowness in Wine today comes from reinterpreting DirectX into OpenGL.

~~~
elektronjunge
Great I can use 5 year old games in their fallback renderer.

------
forrestthewoods
"My take is the devs doing these ports just aren't doing their best to
optimize these releases for Linux and/or OpenGL."

Pretty much. Platforms with 1% of a user base don't get priority over one with
90%. Especially when a significant number of those 1% users also have access
to the 90% platform.

Linux is only remotely worth it if you're a small indie and want to get into
humble bundle. Aside from that there is no financial incentive to support
Linux. Lots of devs jumped on the linux train due to the promise of SteamOS
but those efforts appear to have been largely wasted.

~~~
ekianjo
> Lots of devs jumped on the linux train due to the promise of SteamOS but
> those efforts appear to have been largely wasted.

wasted? It's funny how efforts can be wasted when the actual OS you refer to
is not even released yet (still in beta). Ler's see once it comes out.

~~~
forrestthewoods
Oh they're totally wasted. And the longer it takes the OS to come out,
assuming it ever does and I'm doubtful it will, the more effort is wasted.
There are games coming out today that had Linux support added just because of
the hope of SteamOS. That effort is totally wasted. And it's wasted even if
SteamOS comes out and is wildly successful in a couple of years.

~~~
matthewmacleod
That… makes no sense whatsoever?

The first public release of SteamOS was less than a year ago. It was announced
only shortly before that.

It seems highly unlikely that there have been many games which have had Linux
support added due to SteamOS in that timeframe.

~~~
forrestthewoods
SteamOS was officially announced Sept 2013. But it was well known in the dev
community that Valve was working on Linux things for at least a year longer. I
know games that placed Linux bets back in 2012. Those bets were lost.

~~~
shawn-furyan
Well, when you make bets based on conjecture, you lose bets. It's a practice
more commonly known as speculating. I don't see how that particular scenario
is the fault of anyone besides the people who bet on being able to capitalize
on an unannounced platform.

~~~
forrestthewoods
Sure. Of course. Devs knew a risk, rolled the dice, and lost. No one is saying
that's unfair. No one is even complaining. That doesn't change the fact that
spending time on Linux has thus far proven to be wasted effort and, in most if
not all cases, a net loss.

------
zanny
So I am like the school yard reject here. I own most of the games on the port
report list, I run a 7870 on radeonSI, and I have a pretty good experience
overall. Framerates are of course not there, but I buy the hardware hoping
that AMD will get there eventually. Only way to do so if someone generating
market pressure for it to happen.

The thing is, Valve is fucking up SteamOS royally. If they hadn't messed up,
they would have had strict requirements on games entering the system, and
spent real money paying developers to port in advance of the OS launch, and
they would have actually been ready to launch it when they said they would.
You know, around now.

All those small form factor PCs now shipping Windows that were meant to be
Steamboxes are a testament to Valve screwing the pooch. And it is entirely
their fault for not being ready, like they could just say "hey, were making a
controller and porting our games to SDL2, everyone else you're on your own"
and then drop the ball on the controller and still not have Portal 2 out of
beta on Linux. Great leading by example there. That, and SteamOS proper is
just a cobbled together mutant of Debian, rather than a proper OS - seriously,
why the _fuck_ is Gnome on it? That is pre alpha software for a console OS
release, where all that should be on the image is a kernel, some drivers, a
display server (preferrably Wayland), the Steam runtime, Steam itself, and
fuck all else because its for _consoles_ and console users are only going to
run Steam on it, especially when it has a browser and all the other dodads
like voice chat and music playing they have integrated.

So yeah, the article is mostly right - Valve used it as a ruse to get
Microsoft to cooperate on promises about future releases easing off the
Windows store. They probably got what they wanted, and SteamOS will become
Episode 3 or HL 3 vaporware for years.

------
alkonaut
Should we really be hoping for Linux gaming? If anything, we should hope for
non-windows gaming, if that is what we are after (saving on licenses etc). It
feels like a lot of what's holding Linux gaming back is inherent to Linux
(fragmentation for example), as well as layered security.

I'm no expert, and maybe it's been tried, but wouldn't it be easier to compete
with windows using a platform with less security (faster driver model)? That
is, a boot-to-gaming console OS for x86? It would run som form of modified
Linux kernel or other free OS, but it wouldn't be "desktop Linux" with X11,
kde/gnome etc. I still don't believe in seeing AAA titles all launch for
Linux, at least not while hardware vendors struggle to keep drivers working on
windows (and barely succeed).

~~~
aaron-lebo
How different is what you are talking about from the Steambox?

~~~
vlunkr
SteamOS is essentially just a layer on top of Debian. It has Steam installed
and some drivers, but underneath it's just Linux. OP is talking about about
something that is more dedicated to games. It could be a modified Linux or
something from scratch, but it wouldn't just be a layer on top of something
else.

------
adwf
Anecdotally: I have a 7-8 year old CPU (Q6600) with a 4 year old GPU (GTX 460
SE). I'm running Tropico 5, Civ 5, CS:GO, XCom, TF2 - all great. The only game
I've had even slight problems with is Borderlands 2 and I'd probably have
needed to turn down the settings in Windows anyway.

The problem here isn't SteamOS, it's AMD and their crappy drivers. If you're
on Nvidia, everything is good. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon either,
I've bought only Nvidia for the last 8 years specifically because this is a
known issue on Linux.

------
jason46
I think witcher2 is a good example of how good gaming can be on linux, I had
very good frame rates and the game looks amazing. I was playing this with an
nvidia card using nvidia drivers. But as the article points out, we are at the
mercy of the developers supporting OpenGl which there is apparently not a
large motivation to do so.

~~~
lmedinas
Exactly, when the port is good quality then people get a good experience.

I can tell the same about Blizzard games on OSX or Civilization V on Linux. I
also still remember about America's Army a decade ago was also a great port
which afaik as done by Ryan "icculus" Gordon. Usually these people have a lot
of experience porting Windows games to Linux/OSX.

------
anon4
> _But the masses will probably never get to hold that controller._

That's really sad.

~~~
shmerl
I'm not sure where that commenter (Qzukk) got the info. It sounds simply
false. So I wouldn't really get his word for it.

~~~
nailer
I read the Alienware 'console' box was supposed to be a Steam machine before
SteamOS stopped going anywhere.

Edit: actually there's four Windows-launching former SteamOS machines:

\- ZOTAC Zbox EN760

\- iBuyPower SBX

\- Alienware Alpha PC console

\- ASUS GR8

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/10/16/with-a...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/10/16/with-
asus-rog-gr8-another-steam-machine-launches-without-steam-os/)

~~~
ekianjo
> before SteamOS stopped going anywhere.

who said it's not going anywhere? They released a new beta update a couple of
days ago.

~~~
nailer
My understanding is that all four of those of those systems were timed for the
first public stable release of SteamOS.

~~~
ekianjo
Yeah, but that was until they announced SteamOS would be delayed to 2015.

------
BuildTheRobots
Anecdotal flipside: Saw Max Payne on Steam and thought I'd relive some of my
childhood. Bought it, downloaded it and found it was ni-on impossible to
install on windows 7.

Linux + wine and it worked flawlessly and first time.

------
nickstinemates
Avid Linux user.

The thing I hate most? Multi-monitor. At home I have 8 (4x2), making it all
one big desktop is not (as far as I can tell) possible using _any_ driver.

Gaming has been great over the past year.

------
shmerl
The major breakthrough should be coming with OpenGL-next. Until that time the
situation will be quirky. I wonder how long it will take to draft it though.

~~~
EpicEng
I think most will maintain a healthy cynicism of this until it is shown to be
true. Remember 3.0?

~~~
shmerl
They must have learned from the previous experience by this time. Plus there
are more players this time who actively want to make it right. It's surprising
that it didn't happen before, but I guess there simply wasn't enough
initiative.

~~~
pjmlp
Apple rescued them from the previous experience.

If iPhone hadn't happened with its OpenGL ES 1.0 hardware implementation
driving game studios to reconsider it, OpenGL would have been dead by now.

