
Apple Pay Now Accounts for Three-Fourths of U.S. Contactless Payments - prostoalex
http://fortune.com/2016/07/26/apple-pay-contactless/
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el_benhameen
When I first got an iPhone with Apple Pay, I felt ridiculous pulling it out to
buy groceries. It felt gimmicky, like I was showing off. That changed when my
grocery store started requiring chipped cards to use the chip. AP easily
shaves 20-30 seconds off the transaction. I can pay while items are still
being scanned, I don't have to remember to remove the card, and the auth
process is just faster. Works well enough for me that it's now my primary
payment method when it's accepted.

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zensavona
Aren't you able to just tap your chip card on the terminal without a pin for
purchases less than ~$100?

I live in Australia and this is literally everywhere.

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Xiol
It's the same here in the UK.

Contactless cards are on the rise here and are incredibly convenient - moreso
than Apple/Android pay, IMO. You don't have to wake a card up to use it and
the batteries never run out!

[http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/contactless_contactl...](http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/contactless_contactless_statistics/)

~~~
dbbk
I'd actually argue contactless cards are ubiquitous now.

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jjcm
I think a better market to look at for contactless payments is Australia. Over
here we use them for _everything_. Apple pay has just started rolling out and
pretty much 95% of places I've shopped/eaten at support it. If you're curious
about adoption rate, it's a good case study as there's an existing contactless
credit card system already in place.

~~~
zensavona
I live in Australia and since we already have contactless payments everywhere
I don't understand the benefit/s Apple Pay provides over tapping my card on
the terminal. Am I missing something?

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mmmBacon
Yep. Apple Pay uses a one time authorization code and not your card numbers,
etc... The merchant does not get your card number or name. They can only use
that authorization code for one transaction. Even if your PIN is stolen, the
thief still cannot access your account.

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lostsock
Contactless cards do exactly that. There is no advantage in using Apple Pay

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pilif
Here in Switzerland, nearly every terminal supports contactless payments and
Apple Pay has launched ~1 month ago.

Yet, next to nobody uses it because it's generally not available even though
it has officially launched: Nearly all of the banks here are boycotting it and
are pushing their own mobile payment startup [1] which also has much worse
usability and was initially launched by the Swiss post, a company that still
thinks that a 4 digit pin on their debit card is good enough.

1) [https://www.twint.ch/en/](https://www.twint.ch/en/)

~~~
tomcorrigan
> Swiss post, a company that still thinks that a 4 digit pin on their debit
> card is good enough

How many examples can you provide of a 4 digit card pin being brute forced? Is
there any other scenario where a 4 digit pin has been compromised but a 6
digit pin would be safe?

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pilif
4 digit codes are even easier to shoulder-surf than the 6 digit ones.

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oggedintocom
It's interesting reading about chip+pin and contactless payments in the US -
in Australia 95%+ of transactions are chip+pin, and 70% of that (almost all
transactions under $100) are contactless.

The system isn't perfect, and anecdotal stories from LEOs indicate fraud has
risen due to the low friction of contactless transactions, but obviously it's
not too big a problem for the banks to wear (as all fraudulent contactless
transactions are the bank's problem, not the card owner's).

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josephpmay
The US Chip + Signature system is 1000x worse than the Chip + Pin systems I've
experienced in any other contry

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dawnerd
I've run into two setups here in Oregon that require you to swipe first
(inserting wont start the process at all), then it tells you to insert, then
waits for ever, then pin, then another long wait, then approved. No idea how
they managed to screw it up that badly. I've used it elsewhere and it was
really fast.

Whats worse is some stores have it where you can insert, but when you do it
says "swipe card". Like it detects you inserted but refuses to run it that
way. I really just don't get it.

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michaelmrose
I work in retail. Failing to start processing upon insertion is a bug, the
screen telling you to insert is a warning that you did the wrong thing not an
expected part of the process. I have seen a weird issue wherein some cards,
always the same cards don't start processing until you try and fail to swipe.
I have no idea what the difference is as it doesn't seem to be a single
issuing bank.

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dawnerd
It seems to be whatever model terminal they're using.

One other example is chase. Their ATMs still make you insert, pull out, then
stick back in. Ive yet to have one take the card first try.

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michaelmrose
The same machine worked properly with 99% of cards I think its fixed and its
no longer required.

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stephenr
I kept my Australian bank issued Visa card for a while when I first moved to
Thailand, and used it while we were getting stuff set up locally.

Even though it's never presented locally, with that card cashiers would often
get the "sign or pin" prompt on the terminal, and then ask me (or gesture if
their English wasn't great), and I'd usually pick pin, which would then
produce a slip with "No signature required" printed, which they would then
insist I sign.

Just in the last few months I've noticed more contactless terminals at larger
stores (particularly the nation-wide chains) but I can't imagine what
confusing unnecessary process they'll end up using for that...

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chmars
Signing actually helps against fraud: Signatures can be compared, PINs cannot
– and you can be made liable … :(

~~~
michaelmrose
Signatures are absolutely worthless as far as preventing fraud. In the first
place the proposed thief has access to the signature in question, signatures
on electronic pads are horrid, and cashiers aren't trained handwriting
experts.

Basically anyone could make a signature enough like the signature visible on
the back of the card on the electronic card to be no worse than the average
signature as far as the average person verifying it is concerned.

This is why zero fucks are given regarding how authentic your signature looks
even if they look at your card. The 2 things that do prevent fraud are
verifying id and cards that have pictures of the user on them.

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_kyran
I haven't used cash in Australia in the past year. Contactless payments on any
purchase under $100 is dead simple and it's a lot easier to tap a bit of
plastic that authenticate and use a phone.

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flashman
I find it's useful to stick to cash as a budgeting measure. It's too simple to
lose track of how much you're spending when the amounts are effectively
invisible. I'll make a cash withdrawal and then try to make it last without
contactless payments.

~~~
stephen_g
That's interesting - I have the totally opposite experience. I've been using a
card for most of my purchases since I was 13 years old, and I'm so used to
budgeting by analysing my internet banking transactions (previously the paper
statements) that when I'm forced to get out cash to buy something, I am
extremely carefree with how I spend the change.

Once the transaction is there on my internet banking, it feels to me like the
money is already spent - so if I have to get $50 out to pay $30 somewhere that
doesn't take cash, I'll just spend the other $20 on whatever without thinking!
Whereas I'm a lot more careful with the card because I know I'll see it in my
transactions later.

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firloop
I think the main reason I started using Apple Pay in my regular shopping is
because paying with chip takes so long to process. Sometimes it can take 20-30
seconds for the chip transaction to complete at the grocery store, while Apple
Pay takes 5 seconds or less.

I really miss the speed of magstripe payments.

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Oletros
Is so slow the chip processsing in the USA? Here in Spain is very fast

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exabrial
Just got back from the UK. Nearly everything is contactless. Blows my mind how
in the USA credit card companies see chip-and-signature as the solution to
fraud. I really need someone to explain this to me!

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dboreham
3/4 of nothing.

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the_mitsuhiko
It's frustrating how the US is the only country I travel to where I cannot use
my non American NFC cards. Half the terminals I encounter really only accept
apple pay or a form thereof.

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rconti
Huh. Contactless cards effectively don't exist in the US, but I'd expect any
Apple Pay-compatible system to accept your card as well. Sounds like its more
foreign bank issues (eg, the banks can't agree on rules) than a technology
issue. NFC is NFC.

~~~
pyrale
European banks have been able to allow cross-border operations for decades.
The "banks can't agree on rules" is mostly an american problem.

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RickS
From the article:

> Apple hasn’t revealed exact volume or usage numbers

> without a baseline usage number, it’s impossible know whether the current
> volume is significant.

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xbmcuser
I really don't get what the whole hoopla about contact less payment is in the
US we have had contact less payment cards for years now. And now they are
working on a system that can use android pay and other nfc payment systems for
mrt and bus services as well. Currently we can use the same nfc debit/credit
card we have but it has a separate top up system.

~~~
rconti
I don't quite follow if you're in the US or not. I've only once in my life
seen a US bank-issued contactless card; It was a debit card I had with Union
Bank of California, which I never used because it was a side savings account I
rarely touched.

I don't know who "we" is, or who is deploying NFC payments for MRT (?) and bus
services. I also don't get why using the same nfc debit/credit cards requires
a separate top-up system.

Anyway, I've had great experience with Apple Pay, just need NFC more widely
adopted in the US. It's amazing how few places have even EMV readers active.
It's great to be able to go out for a run or whatever, take my phone with me,
and be able to buy coffee on my way home without having to worry about a
separate payment device. Yes, credit cards are far smaller than a phone, but
it's still one more thing to remember.

I've used Apple Pay with my US-based bank cards in a number of countries; many
places had never even seen someone pay with a phone before. Memorably, a
petrol station in New Zealand in April 2015, and more surprisingly, somewhere
in Denmark or Sweden a couple of months ago (!).

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ryanmarsh
... and an increasing portion of the fraud. Apparently CHIP+PIN is making POS
fraud harder so theives are moving to Apple Pay. Unfortunately I don't have
details on how they use Apple Pay. It might be all social engineering for all
I know.

~~~
ryanmarsh
I just re-read the community guidelines and I'm not sure why this was
downvoted. Help?

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Daviey
3 fourths?! Who calls 3/4 fraction like this?

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forthwall
This might be one of the few signs that Apple is giving out that it is moving
more into the software field.

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thomasfoster96
> ...that it is moving more into the software field.

Wow, if Apple is only _just_ moving into the software field, they must have
some killer apps on the way.

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chrischen
Last I checked nobody used contactless payments in the first place.

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Kpourdeilami
Really? In Canada, almost everyone uses them and almost everywhere supports
them

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kinkora
It's definitely a US thing. Here in Australia, everyone hardly uses Apple Pay
and all major banks have their own cards/app that does NFC payments.

I find it really strange that it is not widely adopted in the US since it
removes a lot of friction when it comes to paying for stuff ergo encourages
more business. I.e. my usual coffee joint was always packed in the mornings
and since they adopted NFC payments a few years back, I noticed the usual
bottleneck queue of people paying at the cashier is significantly less unless
someone starts jiggling for coins.

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honkhonkpants
Experience here is the complete opposite. When I buy a coffee I hand the guy a
few bucks and leave. If the clown in front of me starts waving their iPhone at
the terminal, I start rolling my eyes and tapping my fingers.

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batiudrami
Tipping probably has something to do with this. On US EFTPOS terminals you're
prompted to add a tip/percentage/cash/okay/okay/okay/pay with card.

In Australia you're given a total, the cashier sees the card in your hand,
asks "Paypass?", and bang, it's done. Entire transaction is over in <10
seconds, and the only customer interaction with the terminal is waving a card
over the top of it.

Additionally, the lack of tipping means that people who pay with cash expect
their exact change back and will wait for it, or will fish around for coins to
find the exact amount, which slows down transaction processes.

~~~
lostsock
10 seconds would be the extreme end of things. Most of the time it takes more
like 3 or maybe 4.

