
Sorry–organic farming is worse for climate change - joaomsa
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614605/sorryorganic-farming-is-actually-worse-for-climate-change/
======
Flozzin
I don't support organic because of climate change. Organic is hopefully better
than the normal farming practices that dump chemicals on nature just to get
better yield. Regular farming practices(using pesticides and herbicides) has
been linked to declines in wildlife populations. It's my hope that organic is
less harmful to wildlife and human life.

This article isn't that helpful in my view. It calls for the status quo
because current practices produce more on less. But the status quo is bad as
well. So the take away is both things are bad.

Well great, let's stay on this path while all our insects and birds die, but
at least global warming is still on the rise.../s

~~~
Nicksil
> ...normal farming practices that dump chemicals on nature just to get better
> yield. Regular farming practices(using pesticides and herbicides) ...

Organic farming absolutely uses pesticides and herbicides. In fact they often
must use more of it and at greater frequency than conventional farming methods
because the organic variants are inferior. This also requires more frequent
use of heavy farming machinery for the application process.

> Well great, let's stay on this path while all our insects and birds die, but
> at least global warming is still on the rise.../s

Well, no, there are MANY people working toward improving the "status quo" but
are often derided or dismissed when they begin talking about advances in
pesticides, herbicides, and GMOs. Those are all dirty words in the minds of a
few, loud special interests. Those special interests then hock their pseudo-
science missives to conscience-minded, consuming society and, before you know
it, you have a sizable group of people convinced that the right way to go for
a more healthy, sustainable planet is "organic" agriculture.

That's the damn tragedy of it all. Decent, well-meaning people, genuinely
concerned for their -- and others' \-- health, aggressively pursuing the path
that leads them further from their ideal.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
> Organic farming absolutely uses pesticides and herbicides. In fact they
> often must use more of it and at greater frequency than conventional farming
> methods because the organic variants are inferior.

Got a citation for that? I've always been under the impression that organic
farming _by definition_ doesn't use pesticides and herbicides, and that's why
they're more expensive. The yields are lower because of some crops being eaten
by insects, and quality is lower due to having to battle weeds devouring
nutrients from the soil. Is this not accurate?

~~~
Nicksil
Information on herbicide/pesticide use in organic farming is abundant. A quick
search
([https://duckduckgo.com/?q=organic+farming](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=organic+farming))
will yield plenty to begin research. Due diligence is necessary given the mass
of mis/dis-information, turning fact-finding into a much more difficult
process for the laymen (like me) than it should be, but seek many sources,
develop a consensus.

HN user "widowlark" posted
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21337495](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21337495))
a link to a "Scientific American" article which you may find useful:
[https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-
sushi/httpblogs...](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-
sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-
sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/)

The Wikipedia article on "Organic farming"
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming))
has a section-or-two discussing the practice; it'll provide a decent jumping-
off point for further research.

~~~
franzmafka
This is obviously a bit facetious but would you consider a duck a pesticide?
Small scale artisan farmers are always looking for better solutions and often
find them. A distinction needs to be made between a true organic small
producer and a conventional farmer chasing an organic label and those extra
dollars per pound.

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octokatt
From the article, it sounds like less-intensive farming techniques are needed
to help carbon storage, of which organic farming can help.

It follows that the other step needed to shore this up is to have less food
waste, more local food, and most likely eat less meat per-capita.

I'm not sure why the end interpretation of the study was "this is entirely
useless" instead of "this is one step". It's a little like saying Kubernetes
is useless, total overkill to make my blog.

~~~
mark_l_watson
I wonder where the authors get their funding from. My Dad sent me an article
written by a friend of his that said that global warming is a non issue, etc.
I did some research on my Dad’s friend and it turned out that the organization
he helped start gets their funding from the oil industry, information that was
not easy to find.

Authors of papers and articles that purport to talk about scientific results
should have to disclose funding, finances, etc.

~~~
octokatt
This loops back into the ongoing "why academic publishing is terrible"
conversation. And why we're probably heading towards scientists needing to run
for office again, like what happened after the Great Depression.

------
nabla9
Farming methods and use of chemical used should be evaluated individually.
Organic is always better is not good strategy.

Some organic products taste better, but most of them don't. Some organic
products are better for the environment but many are not. Most staple foods
should not be organically farmed. For everyday foods it's important to to
maintain good quality, avoid wastage and reduce the use of farmland if you
want to be ecological.

Reducing the use of pesticides with better farming methods, breeding and
genetic engineering should be part of ecological farming.

------
WhyKill
Sorry, this article is propaganda for BigAg and BigChem.

They looked at one meta study and one study that was ESTIMATING the
effectiveness of organic based on land usage.

Organic farming is needed to increase top soil depth which results in
increased carbon sequestration and water absorption.

Organic farming isn't specific enough. It's permanent agriculture which is
needed, usually in the form of organic agriculture.

