
Ask YC: What is your take on web2py? - aitoehigie
i am new to web2py and i must confess that i have fallen in love with it. if you have used the framework before, what is your take on it?
======
fredcy
I've been experimenting with web2py over the last week and I like it. Simple
web apps are easy to create with very little work. I'm not keen on through-
the-web code development but that's not essential to web2py -- everything can
be edited directly as simple files. The code of the 'gluon' library seems fine
to me. It's a very compact style of coding that (IMO) could use a few more
comments, but it's at least as good as what I've seen in Zope and Plone. (Of
course, web2py has not been around long enough to accumulate the kind of cruft
that happens in more aged software). The documentation is pretty good,
particularly in its examples and tutorials. The new "manual" is good. The one
thing is miss is an API manual such as can be found for the PHP and Python
libraries.

------
ivank
Have you looked at the source code? web2py is a bad joke with a lot of
marketing. Then again, the author isn't really into the Python style - just
its userbase. Look at Django if you want a full stack or Werkzeug if you want
to roll your own; the latter can easily emulate the style of web.py or Pylons
(in fact the trunk comes with these examples).

~~~
mdipierro
Are you still upset with web2py because I did not include your package.
Com'on. Grow up. web2py is a project grown in a university, it is all but
marketing. Unless free good documentation is called marketing. Here is the
latest draft manual:
<http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_manual.pdf> Here is a
preliminary comparison with other frameworks:
[http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.p...](http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf)
(please correct me if I am wrong)

~~~
webology
I'm not sure about the other frameworks listed but I did notice the following
related to Django:

\- Django's caching supports ram, disk, database, and memcache as well. \-
Migrations are supported in Django via the 3rd party django_evolution to name
one of a few. \- Django trunk also has simplejson included. \- For
documentation there are the online docs, the djangobook.com website, three
published books as of today, and at least a few other books coming out in the
next few months. My point just being that there is more then just one book.

~~~
mdipierro
I just made many corrections. I could find only 2 published books. please send
me a personal email if you have other corrections and they will be
incorporated.

~~~
webology
It also might be worth pointing out the community size based on the
frameworks. By looking at their respective IRC channels and/or Google Group
sizes you can get a rough estimate how big each of their communities are.
Overall, I've found any / all python web framework communities to be extremely
helpful and friendly. I say that not to take away from the non-python
frameworks because I don't have experience with them.

I couldn't easily find your email so here is a list instead. These books are
out right now:

The Definitive Guide to Django: Web Development Done Right:
[http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Django-Development-
Ri...](http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Django-Development-
Right/dp/1590597257/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209412044&sr=8-1)

Sams Teach Yourself Django in 24 Hours: [http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-
Yourself-Django-Hours/dp/06...](http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-
Django-
Hours/dp/067232959X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209412044&sr=8-5)

Professional Python Frameworks: Web 2.0 Programming with Django and
Turbogears: [http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Python-Frameworks-
Program...](http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Python-Frameworks-Programming-
Turbogears/dp/0470138092/ref=pd_bbs_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209412044&sr=8-12)

Here are two coming out later in the year:

Practical Django Projects (June or July 2008):
[http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Django-Projects-
Pratical/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Django-Projects-
Pratical/dp/1590599969/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209412044&sr=8-4)

Python Web Development with Django (Sep 2008): [http://www.amazon.com/Python-
Development-Django-Developers-L...](http://www.amazon.com/Python-Development-
Django-Developers-
Library/dp/0132356139/ref=pd_bbs_sr_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209412044&sr=8-8)

~~~
mdipierro
I updated the document and listed 3. When the other two come out I will update
it again. Thanks.

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BackSeat
I've tried Django and web.py in the past, and given up with both. web2py
works, is nicely implemented and the documentation is starting to take shape.
Good support on the mailing list too.

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g-man
web2py 'gets it' about developing web apps!

Massimo has boiled down the essence of what a web app needs to do (MVC, REST),
and has delivered it in a clean, simple package, which is just what I would
expect from a Computer Science professor.

The new Google appengine Bigtable datastore makes any SQL-based ORMs moot now
anyway, so all we really need to worry about are the business logic and
presentation, both of which web2py excels at.

Yes, you can still use Textmate if you want, but the cool thing about web2py
is you never need to leave the browser IDE. Also, the framework itself is so
compact you can carry everything around in a few megs of a USB thumb drive, so
now you have a truly portable cross-platform package you can use to develop
wherever you are!

So just get involved, and let's lead the way into the cloud... I see a huge
need for that kind of leadership over at the appengine; this is a chance to
make a real difference and shape the future, folks.

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inklesspen
Web2py is a joke. The guy wrote his own ORM, rather than working with the
best-of-breed Python ORM SQLAlchemy, and he touts this as a feature. He was
also quick to point out that Web2py won a rumble, but fails to mention that
this was because none of the other Python frameworks had even heard of it.

If you want a good Python framework that doesn't unduly dictate your app
structure, go to Pylons.

~~~
mdipierro
The Flourish conference was sponsored by Google. The creators of Django,
CackePHP and Rails were on the mailing list and some even replied to it. I
agree that if nobody else participated it is not a victory. I would not say
web2py won, I would say web2py was not afraid to participate and delivered a
working project in 24 hours that met the specs. The organizers said web2py
won. Ask the organizers. Ian Biking was on the jury.

~~~
inklesspen
You did in fact say web2py won:

"web2py is the only framework that participated to the www.flourishconf.com
rumble (develop a web app in 24 hours) and won because all the other
frameworks chickened out."

[http://spyced.blogspot.com/2008/04/m-half-baked-thoughts-
on-...](http://spyced.blogspot.com/2008/04/m-half-baked-thoughts-on-python-
web.html?showComment=1207575720000#c7863386267780636294)

~~~
mdipierro
Three other people came to pick up the rules and some more were on the mailing
list, were supposed to and didn't. I spent 24 hours coding and felt like a
fool when nobody else delivered. You are taking a quote I made to my users'
group out of context. Why do you turn a discussion about some work of mine
into a personal thing?

~~~
inklesspen
No, I'm taking a quote you posted on someone else's blog in an attempt to
promote web2py. I'm not turning this into a personal thing; you are.

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nuggien
got a 503 when trying to access <http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/>

