
More Consensus on Coffee’s Benefits Than You Might Think - mgav
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/upshot/more-consensus-on-coffees-benefits-than-you-might-think.html
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mironathetin
Without the information who financed these numerous research results, they are
not worth the time to read them or to write about them, imho.

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josefresco
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

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recuter
No, that would be calling out the author by name as a shill. Remarking that
the source the author is relying upon could possibly be biased/tainted is not
an ad hominem in any way.

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kenbellows
It could be considered an ad hominem attack on a study if OP had said "the
source was funded by coffee sellers _and therefore it 's all false and
incorrect_". But that's not what's happening here anyway.

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afarrell
If the strength of an argument depends partly on trusting the integrity of a
source, why is doubting that integrity a fallacy?

In an ideal world you judge experimental results by their reproducibility, but
who on HN has the time to reproduce results?

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kenbellows
If all you are doing is casting reasonable doubt, that's fine. The logical
fallacy arises when you point to the source of a proposition and declare that
mouth that spoke it makes it false by nature. There's a big difference between
"This pro-coffee study was funded by Big Coffee, so I'm skeptical and would
like further studies and independent verification" and "This pro-coffee study
was funded by Big Coffee, therefore the conclusion is false and coffee
actually _isn 't_ good for you." Even if Big Coffee funded this report and
benefited from its conclusions, the conclusions may very well still be valid;
it would be a fallacy to reject this possibility outright.

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MrJagil
Coffee itself might not have anything to do with it; rather, coffee follows a
certain lifestyle which is healthier than that of non-drinkers. I.e. it is
perhaps quite good for you to get up every morning at 9am and go to work.
Active lifestyle, continuous stimuli etc. Coffee just so happens to be very
ingrained in that culture.

It might not be the actual chemicals and nutrients of coffee that helps you,
but the fact that it "forces" you to be active, mentally. It kickstarts your
brain. The biggest killers are staying still and loneliness.

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0359B02149AB
Anecdotally, I would agree with you for some, but for others not so much. I
get a short boost followed by a long crash when drinking coffee. It's also
like an unfocused focus - like as long as what I want to focus on is nearby, I
will do that. But if I have to figure out what I want to focus on, that feels
like frustration and hypertension.

I prefer tea. I get up at 4:50 am 5 days a week, and I rarely sleep past 7-8
on weekends. I just make sure I'm asleep by 10:00 pm before work nights, and
weeknights I stay up til 11:00 max.

I really like thinking that I think slowly, and that I can control my thinking
direction using another level of meta-thinking. It's one of my most favorite
and dramatic life shifts as an adult, that I have made. Pretending that my
mind is a machine that needs to be turned on is a one way ticket to crazy
town, and it's pretty hard to leave crazy town.

But otherwise, I don't understand how loneliness has to do with any of this.
I'm lonely regardless of whether I drink tea or coffee.

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RankingMember
Agreed, coffee for me is basically a burst of energy/focus followed by a
longer period of worse energy/focus than when I began, so really not worth it
for me. I like Yerba Mate for this reason - no real crash, but a strong but
steady warm buzz, much less peaky than coffee.

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YorkianTones
Coffee also creates an energy sine wave for me, the amplitude of which is too
intense. I go for matcha green tea powder in my morning shake - the effects
last longer since your body is digesting a powder (it's extended-release
caffeine), with little drop-off. I tolerate it much better than coffee.

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kohanz
Anyone else surprised that _3 to 5 cups a day_ is considered "moderate"? I
thought it would be 1 to 3 or so.

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3JPLW
In the US, at least, there's a strange convention that a "cup" of coffee is 6
ounces[1]. 2 mugs is typically about 4 of these "cups". I'm not sure what
convention the NY Times is using, but the quantities are quite muddled.

1\. [http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/25041/is-a-cup-
on...](http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/25041/is-a-cup-on-a-coffee-
maker-always-6-oz-is-this-a-standard-in-the-us)

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globuous
I always hated that "cup" measure in the US... Anywho, I don't think the
volume of coffee one drinks in a day is relevant without stating how
concentrated it is. I'm assuming 6 oz of americano coffee doesn't have quite
the same effect as a 6 oz cup of esspresso (oh Lord.)

I know that, technically, a glass of beer should contain the same amount of
alcohol as a shot of vodka or a glass of wine in a bar. Of course in practice
it's probably not exactly the case, but when someone tells me "drinking 2
glasses before driving isn't such a good idea," I'm supposed to be able to
tell how much 2 glasses is regadless of the alcohol consumed.

Isn't it the same in the article ? Shouldn't a cup of esspresso contain the
same amount of coffee as a (medium ?) americano ? If not, how do these 2
coffee dilutions compare ?

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INTPnerd
This article is completely worthless because it is all about looking at
studies about drinking coffee. If you really want to get educated about
health, you need to learn the details of taking care of your entire person,
how all your body parts are interdependent and affect each other, and what
different habits actually do. Instead of looking at whether or not long term
it lowers or raises your risk of certain problems, it would be better task
these questions: What is coffee? What are the immediate affects of drinking it
on different body organs and functions? What is the purpose of those organs
and is that purpose disrupted? How does it affect digestion? It is well known
among those that actually know stuff about health, that taking care of your
digestive process and things that affect your bowel movements is where the
root of most disease and healing begins. So how does coffee affect this?
According to the book "Tissue Cleansing Through Bowel Management", coffee will
kill the good bacteria necessary for this faster than anything else. If that
is true, it makes a strong case toward coffee being bad for you. Of course not
all coffee is created equal. Some coffee is naturally less acidic than others.
A lot of coffee is polluted with high levels of heavy metals. But if coffee is
generally bad for digestion, and digestion is one of the main keys to healthy
living, why do so many studies show long term benefits from drinking it? Here
is where I don't like studies for this kind of thing. Most people come nowhere
near living in harmony with what is now known about healthy living, myself
included. So these studies are mostly about the affects of coffee on people
who otherwise do not live a healthy lifestyle. Also, who funded, setup,
monitored, and published the results? Who gamed the system by deciding who be
included in the study and what type of coffee they would use? Who was paid off
to change the numbers? There is no way to know. And yes, I drink coffee, at
least for now. But I am on a constant journey of always improving my health in
some way. Some day, I may stop drinking coffee altogether.

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Diederich
For some people with GERD, coffee is very bad for them. My wife switched from
coffee to tea for this reason. Tea is pretty fabulous for her, and I gather
there's at least some documented health benefits on that front as well.

Edit: GERD =
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastroesophageal_reflux_disease](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastroesophageal_reflux_disease)

Second Edit: To be clear: I agree with the parent article, I think coffee is
close to harmless for MOST people, and very well might have some positives.

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matwood
Tea is awesome. It has the caffeine, but has another drug which is more
calming. For people who get a bit manic with coffee, tea is often the thing
that works for them.

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YorkianTones
L-Theanine one of those other drugs found in green/black/white tea, and it
produces a calming effect. The Japanese even put it in bubble gum.

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TheLoneWolfling
A thought.

Coffee is a (relatively mild) stimulant. I wonder how much of coffee's
benefits can be attributed directly to that, as opposed to whatever else
caffeine may do?

Given that these studies tend to be done in first-world countries, where
obesity and people being underactive are a problem... Overgeneralizing of
course.

If nothing else, sitting still for long periods of time is known to be bad for
you, and caffeine helps people avoid that.

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Speakeasys
This article brought to you by Starbucks. The great tasting and dependable
coffee you love.

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stephengillie
It's fun to watch the health pendulum swing to and fro, and occasionally given
a gentle shove from a marketing article.

Replace coffee with cigarettes, and it reads as a tobacco ad from the 1920s.

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anu7df
This is all well and good. I drink my locally roasted, manual ground,
aeropress brewed coffee for pleasure and taste. Everything else.. meh..
Actually most/all coffee lovers I know drink coffee because they like it, not
because they expect a lot of health benefits from it. But... good to know..

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gadders
I use it as a caffeine delivery system primarily.

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Loque
Tablet form is probably more effective :`)

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Lancey
Remember when moderate consumption of alcohol also reduced cardiovascular
risk?

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leephillips
Yes. Doesn't it still?

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Lancey
No, it was debunked.

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leephillips
I remember that doubts were raised about some of the studies, but not that it
was definitively debunked. Do you have a reference by any chance? I'm not
doubting you and realize that I can Google, but if you have a good paper I'll
start there.

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mariusz79
It's a drug. It's full of harmful chemicals because of the way it's processed.
It affects mind and body, often negatively. But it's great money maker so we
will be hearing more about its "benefits" in a near future.

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Kurtz79
Also tobacco and alcohol are big moneymakers, but there is a large consensus
about their negative effects, and that's why their use (or abuse) is
discouraged, by doctors and governments alike.

So either:

\- The coffee "lobby" is more effective than the tobacco and alcohol lobbies.

\- Maybe all drugs cannot be dumped in the same bin, and we should treat them
case by case, critically.

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dghughes
Fun fact smokers process/eliminate caffeine from their bodies quicker than
non-smokers.

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ci5er
This is true. Blood serum caffeine is processed twice as quickly by smokers.

LPT: If you quit smoking, cut your caffeine consumption in at least half for
at least the first week. Otherwise you will explode with non-nicotine-related
episodes of anxiety or nervousness.

