
A Meth Addict Gets Sober in Orange County Community Court - curtis
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/using-against-my-will/486203/?single_page=true
======
Animats
_" In jail, there’s everything you need: heroin, alcohol, pills, meth, weed."_

This is because the California Correctional Officers Association strongly
opposes searches of guards.[1]

[1] [http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/04/local/la-me-
prison-g...](http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/04/local/la-me-prison-
guards-20110204)

~~~
Herodotus38
Sort of a minor point but I wonder though if the quote meant prison rather
than jail. Anecdotally I've heard that it is hard to get drugs in jail, but
very easy in prison. This makes sense because people in jail are there for
short stints and thus don't have time to make the connections required for a
clandestine black market. A lot of people use the terms jail and prison
interchangably, though they are technically different in the USA.

~~~
jboles
That is interesting. What is the distinction? Jail is usually a holding area
while prison is for serving a sentence?

~~~
nsp
Jail is pre-conviction, prison post. (As a general rule, there are always
exceptions)

~~~
lsaferite
Frequently, convictions under 1 year stay in jail for the duration.

------
Daneel_
Interesting insight into what addiction is really like. That mentality of 'I
could relapse tomorrow' even after four years is very telling. Good on the guy
for four years clean. He obviously wants it, and he's got the willpower to
keep it together now that he's hit rock bottom. Glad his life is back on
track.

~~~
thr303808
He could also take drugs tomorrow and stop the next day. Us addicts seemingly
think of relapsing as something that happens to you, like if you're walking
down the street and fall into a manhole. But you're not powerless, it's just a
self-fulfilling prophecy. It'll take at least weeks of continued use to get
addicted again (that's for opioids, amphetamines are not addictive in that
way.) Then again, it's never enough to just do it once as you want to be on
the drug forever. This is why it's easy to continue using again, but it's also
possible to stop.

EDIT To clarify: I'm not condoning relapsing, I only want people to know that
all hope is not lost if you made the decision to use again. I'm also not
saying that it will be easy to stop again, just that it's going to be easier
than you think.

~~~
daveguy
Downvoted. Addiction is powerful and the false belief that you can "just
dabble" is what causes a lot of relapse. It is a common excuse/justification
for people during a relpse.

If you are speaking this way from a personal perspective you should take the
resumption of addictive behavior seriously and consider getting help.

Flippant attitude toward relapse is not a good attitude for someone who wants
to stay clean.

~~~
thr303808
Good friends of mine died from walking into a relapse, I don't take it lightly
at all. Relapses are so common it's dangerous to tell people all is lost if
they use just one more time.

Personally I've been clean for years, but what saved me was getting back into
work so that I had something to occupy my time. It's easier to drop the tin
foil when you have work and responsibilities in the morning.

------
hackney
In all honesty, the fact that he had been an upright taxpaying citizen to
begin with... good job, house, car, friends etc., was an excellent incentive
to break the habit. My stepbrother is in his late 30's, has 5 illegitimate
kids, no job, no car, and has never held a driver's license. Oh and he's a
heroin addict and all his friends are meth heads. Why doesn't he quit? He's
lived in the same house virtually his entire life, in and out of jail and
prison, and his dad essentially allows him to live there as a daily fuckup.
DeLancey Street is an excellent court appointed 2yr alternative to the courts
themselves. You can also just walk or drive in right off the street if you
have the balls. Problem is you have to willingly enter it (the hard part),
have no outstanding tickets/court appointments, and show up sober. Even so,
I've seen guys with 4 years under their belt, walk out the door and OD within
a week. It really boils down to the individul themselves and the choices they
make. Guys with 30+ years of addiction do not normally survive it. It just
eats them alive, if not slowly.

------
kilroy123
My sister has a very bad drug problem. At this point we want her to go to
jail, as it might help her want to get better. Sadly, as this guy said, it is
very easy to get high in jail.

~~~
thr303808
Jail/prison is the absolute worst place you can send a drug addict to. If
anything it usually makes things much, much worse.

Sadly I don't have any solutions to your problems, only the advice to keep
fighting for her and to treat her with compassion. If she's addicted to
opioids you could consider buprenorphine.

~~~
kilroy123
No offense, but you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. We'd
rather see her go to jail, than be dead. Which is a likely path for her.

~~~
mcbits
Sending her to jail, depending on how it plays out, may disqualify her from
student financial aid, government jobs, pretty much any job with an element of
trust involved, housing, foreign travel. To keep her alive, you burn many
bridges that could have led to a life worth living. More likely than death,
jail is what will eventually happen on its own if you _fail_ to help her, and
then she will carry that stigma forever (on top of being an addict).

~~~
rprospero
I have no love of the American penal system or the drug war. That said:

A) You're right about the Draconian consequences of a jail sentence, and you
also forgot to include the loss of her right to vote. However, I'd also like
to point out that death will similarly disqualify his sister from student
financial aid, government jobs, pretty much any job with an element of trust
involved, housing, foreign travel. It might also disqualify her from voting,
though there's always some reports each election cycle to the contrary.

B) My brother in law did go to prison for a useless drug offence that was a
complete waste of everyone's time, thought it did make the police departments
numbers look a bit better in their annual report. All of those bridges that
you spoke of _have_ been burned for him. As I understood your argument, you
believe that his life is no longer worth living? Should I go ahead and
euthanise him while I'm in town next Thanksgiving?

I hate the prison system. I hate the drug war. They are both broken on every
level and future generations will judge us for how vilely we've handled this
situation. However, I also have the perspective to know that there are people
for whom there are worse fates than a life with a felony conviction on her
record. They aren't common, and my brother in law wasn't one of them, but I
accept the possibility that kilroy's sister might be one. It's certainly
unlikely, but it's possible, and kilroy know the facts in the case better than
I do.

Edit1: Fixed some language

~~~
mcbits
Hmm, it sounds like you're disagreeing, but I basically agree with everything
you said.

> As I understood your argument, you believe that his life is no longer worth
> living? Should I go ahead and euthanise him while I'm in town next
> Thanksgiving?

That's not up to you or me. You'll have to ask him. Or just observe whether he
seems to have found his spark among the options that are still available. I'm
definitely not saying a criminal record makes it impossible to find and pursue
a passion in life - only that when someone is in a self-destructive pattern,
"helping" by dishing out punishment and cutting off avenues of growth is not
sensible at all. Now occasionally someone is literally on the verge of
suicide, and confinement might get them through it, but it's only borrowed
time if they'll be in a worse place after release.

------
CodeWriter23
To me it sounds pretty much like the court sent him to Narcotics Anonymous and
he got clean there. The sober living house had him pee in a cup to verify he
was staying clean and that's about it.

~~~
pcl
The article has a link to another article that's more focused on the notion of
a "drug court" [1] itself. I hadn't heard of the term either, but from the
sound of it, the drug court runs / oversees a highly-structured program that's
focused on addicts and that takes place outside of a prison. So it sounds like
it's more than just "go to a sober living house, and let them enforce rules"
and more of a probation-like situation.

[1]
[http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/helping-...](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/helping-
not-punishing-addicts/487706/)

