
Forty percent of the Bay Area wants to leave, says new poll - tlogan
http://sf.curbed.com/2017/3/31/15140036/bay-area-leaving-poll-san-francisco
======
EdJiang
I saw this the other day -- seems like it's not just the Bay Area, though :)

Nearly half of Illinois residents want to leave the state, survey finds:

[http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/10/11/nearly-
ha...](http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/10/11/nearly-half-of-
illinois-residents-want-to-leave.html)

Here’s Why 41% of Millennials want to leave the U.S:

[https://transferwise.com/us/blog/why-41-percent-
millenials-w...](https://transferwise.com/us/blog/why-41-percent-millenials-
want-to-leave-the-us)

~~~
latigidigital
In short, 40-50% of people want to leave their current situation, but can't
really.

There was a similar trend in the first half of the 20th century, IIRC, because
of the similar economic situation.

------
salesguy222
And while I have nothing in particular against the Bay Area, I would encourage
people to think very deeply about the very awesome and simple alternatives to
living in the Bay:

Why would you want to live in a crowded, VERY expensive, a bit smoggy, overly
regulated city with a long daily commute-

when you could live in a cheaper, less crowded, friendlier city (or country)
with no commute (work online if possible), less smog, etc?

It may seem like a pipedream, but it really is possible with some planning, a
bit of luck, and persistent motivation.

I made the move from Boston to Singapore with no job or long term visa. It
worked out just fine. I get sun every day, there's no crime, and since I don't
live downtown, my expenses are pennies!

~~~
whack
I like Singapore too, but it's also one of the densest cities in the world,
with the highest cost of living. In fact, I don't think even Singaporeans
would describe their city as being _" cheaper, less crowded and friendlier."_

[https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2017/03/29/singapore-
retain...](https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2017/03/29/singapore-retains-
title-as-worlds-most-expensive-city-for-fourth-consecutive-year/)

~~~
salesguy222
No worries, thanks for the article!

I would say that if you are trying to recreate an American lifestyle with a
car, house, designer shopping, dining out, etc. Yes, Singapore is the most
expensive city in the world.

But there is extremely little crime here (to the point where Singaporeans are
a bit lacking in caution like a galapagos iguana in my opinion).

HDBs are absurdly cheap for how nice they are. I pay $500 a month to live
here.

And while the downtown core and Tampines are very crowded, traffic is decently
efficient during a variety of commuting methods.

And my bike rides through Lim Chu Kang are practically deserted :)

~~~
vram22
I too had heard from a friend working there that Singapore was somewhat
expensive. Are the pay levels commensurate with costs, for software people?

Also: How long have you been living there, and have you experienced that
yearly smoke from burning of forests in Malaysia and Indonesia? My friend said
that is an issue, and I've read about that in other places too, also that it
happens in Chiang Mai, Thailand and nearby areas too.

How do you handle it, if it is an issue?

~~~
salesguy222
The pay is actually shockingly all over the place, in my opinion. The reason
for this is that income tax is virtually non existent, so thats 30% less that
they need to pay you compared to the US.

Then when you factor in the CPF, which is a mandatory contribution to a
retirement fund that employers make for their employees, that's another 10%
pay cut or so off the typical market rate.

Then there is a local talent pool for ~enterprise technology~ (c++ and java,
mysql) that are quite underpaid.

Mobile dev jobs pay well but there isn't much equity to go around.

The only people making real money here are the bankers, lawyers, and doctors.
Tech is still a side show in my opinion. Think New York in the 80s.

Still you will be just fine if you live like "us locals", avoiding the obvious
scams that are reproducing Western life here, like Marina Bay Sands, Sentosa,
LV, buying a Mercedes :)

The smog is a pretty big problem 1 month out of the year! It's wise to wear a
mask and stay indoors, in my opinion.

I've researched the problem- it's a political one that probably won't be
solved. Indonesians have the right land and climate for growing palm, which is
used in palm oil soap from Dove, which Westerners buy mindlessly.

The farmers burn their land in a type of old school crop rotation, and a bunch
of Singaporean and Indonesian companies pay them for their crop. So there is
pretty strong demand and multiple levels.

I think it's a nuissance but not the end of the world. It's probably not even
as serious as say, nuclear problems in Japan, smog in LA, seasonal depression
in Boston and Seattle. It's just that it's quirky and in the news.

When I moved here, I realized how many things were relentlessly
sensationalized in the American news by Americans so that they would feel
better about living in America with all of its interestingly American problems
:)

~~~
eru
More dangerous than any nuclear problems in Japan probably. But yes, probably
on par with the others you mentioned. Varies a bit from year to year.

------
hprotagonist
Reminds me of this Onion article from years back:
[http://www.theonion.com/article/84-million-new-yorkers-
sudde...](http://www.theonion.com/article/84-million-new-yorkers-suddenly-
realize-new-york-c-18003)

>With audible murmurs of "This is no way to live," "What the hell am I doing
here—I hate it here," and "Fuck this place. Fuck this horrible place," all 8.4
million citizens in each of the five boroughs packed up their belongings and
told reporters they would rather blow their brains out with a shotgun than
spend another waking moment in this festering cesspool of filth and scum and
sadness.

------
npratini
Nicely summed up by a coworker: "I just turned 30 and I still live in a dining
room."

------
tlogan
I posted this because we decided to move.

The reason is very simple: our kid got into bad middle school on the other
side of the town, we do not have money for private, so we are moving out....

~~~
Greenisus
I'm concerned about this too. Do you mind sharing which town you were in?

------
mabbo
I used to tell people to move to Toronto instead. I don't anymore. There's a
housing bubble, cost of living is rising, and tech salaries are up, but not
enough.

If my condo hits a valuation high enough (ie- the bubble doesn't pop for
another two years) my wife and I plan to sell and get the hell out of here.

~~~
markeroon
Yeah the housing market really needs to cool off, it's getting pretty
concerning.

~~~
markeroon
(Which is why I rent.)

------
dragonwriter
"considering leaving in the next few years" as stated in the poll is not the
"want to leave" used for the headline (and even further from the "likely to
leave" needed to justify the claim of a likely exodus.)

------
gremlinsinc
They should move to Silicon Slopes (Utah) -- One of the largest and fastest
growing tech sectors, minutes from Ski Resorts galore, tons of land to expand.
We have tons of 1Gig fiber providers... AND WE can definitely use a lot more
progressive-leaning people in this state, to shake up the political landscape
a bit.

~~~
sdflkd
I'm always slightly worried as an atheist minority (brown) of considering
Utah. I come from Canada and never really see racial tensions like there are
in the US. Would you say it's not as big of a deal as the media makes it out
to be?

1GB fiber providers is hella enticing.

~~~
gremlinsinc
I think it's possible utah could move in next 40-50 years from mormon
stronghold to atheist/agnostic one actually. -- There's a lot of people
leaving the church... because of the CES Letter, and recent church political
movements. -- 80% of ex-mormons end up agnostic or atheistic--because they've
believed in mormonism as being the 'one true church' or a restored version of
christianity and that ALL other sects are wrong, so if your restored
christianity is wrong, so too must christianity as a whole be wrong..

------
sbardle
Out of interest, for those who have been in the Bay Area for a while, when was
the best time to live there?

~~~
timcederman
2006-2010. 2008/2009 was great - everything was super cheap, and no traffic.

------
alexhutcheson
Had to double-check that this wasn't dated April 1.

------
hrez
In other news, 60% wants other 40% to leave :)

------
donretag
I should send the article for every Bay Area tech recruiter that asks me if I
am willing to relocate to the Bay Area.

How many people need to leave the area before the companies themselves follow
due to lack of workers?

~~~
Neliquat
They will never lack workers, but maybe a certain type of worker.

