
Quake Live goes native and drops OS X, Linux - kayoone
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?34313
======
klrr
This is great for Xonotic[1] and Warsow[2]! I hope the majority will look for
a new FPS on Linux and Macintosh and find either Xonotic or Warsow, both great
games. Warsow even got through the Steam greenlight program and will be on
Steam soon.

1\. Xonotic is a fusion of Quake and Unreal Tournoment. It features secondary
fire mode, loads of modes and original maps and foremost a really awesome
community. I highly recommend to try out this title if you are interested in
this genre. 1.0 is not released yet, but it's already very mature and fun,
it's also completely free software.
[http://www.xonotic.org/](http://www.xonotic.org/)

1\. Warsow is a Quake with a unique twist regarding movement and graphics. It
got that Borderland cartoonish look and it fits really well in this fast paced
genre. It also features a "dash", that is that you can turn without loosing
velocity and do walljumps etc. Loads of great original maps, and a active
community. Highly recommended as well. Warsow has reached it 1.0 release and
is has a free software engine, but the game assets are proprietary.
[http://www.warsow.net/](http://www.warsow.net/)

~~~
prg318
I'd highly recommend both of these games. I'm really hoping that the lack of
Mac/Linux support in Quake Live will bring more players to the Xonotic and
Warsow community. If you are into quake-like FPS, do yourself a favor and
check out Xonotic or Warsow.

~~~
nutate
I got really addicted to Warsow for a hot minute. Great action in that game
and I like the cel-shaded graphics option.

~~~
kbar13
the community is great, and the game is fun. It's too bad that almost nobody
plays it anymore :(

------
nailer
So:

\- Every browser now supports WebGL

\- This would allow their customers to play Quake without plugins OR downloads
(eg, this demo
[http://media.tojicode.com/q3bsp/](http://media.tojicode.com/q3bsp/))

and instead they ditch platforms and require an installer?

~~~
pjmlp
> \- Every browser now supports WebGL

With 2006's 3D performance and access to all source code.

~~~
nailer
2006's 3D performance is an xbox 360.

Code access is to a minified client-only source * for an Open Source engine,
gamers could possibly write their own backend matchmaking service and host and
maintain it themselves, but I suspect this isn't worth most people's time.

(that said, anti-aimbot type stuff might be a real problem)

* As someone else pointed out, ASM.JS is more than just minified, it's unreadable. Eg, Epic have UE3 ASM.JS hosted online.

~~~
bilbo0s
"...I suspect this isn't worth most people's time...."

Doesn't have to be.

Only needs to be worth one person's time to render the effort commercially
dubious.

~~~
nailer
Sure, it only takes one guy to write an OSS backend clone. Does he host it, or
does the user host it? If the user hosts it, does it work on Windows, is it a
simple install, can an average person figure out how to run their own
dedicated server using the software? Does the maintainer respond to bugs? Does
the maintainer have time to maintain the app? Does the maintainer work for
free?

------
Arjuna
I think the reason is two-part:

1\. (From the original link):

 _" Over the past few years, browser support for plugins such as QUAKE LIVE
have dropped off significantly, causing problems for plugins to operate in a
consistent and working manner. With the recent announcement of Google Chrome's
roadmap [1] to turning off plugin support and the upcoming changes in Firefox
[2], it seems that now is the time to make the transition."_

2\. (From John Carmack's comments at QuakeCon 2012 [3]):

 _" Linux is an issue that's taken a lot more currency with Valve announcing
Steam for Linux, and that does change, factor, you know, changes things a bit,
but we've made two forays into the Linux commercial market, most recently with
Quake Live client, and, you know, that platform just hasn't carried its weight
compared to the Mac on there. It's great that people are enthusiastic about
it, but there's just not nearly as many people that are interested in paying
for a game on the platform, and that just seems to be the reality."_

[1] [http://blog.chromium.org/2013/09/saying-goodbye-to-our-
old-f...](http://blog.chromium.org/2013/09/saying-goodbye-to-our-old-friend-
npapi.html)

[2] [http://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2013/09/24/plugin-
act...](http://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2013/09/24/plugin-activation-
in-firefox/)

[3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-
iVFxgFWk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-iVFxgFWk)

\--

Based on John's comments regarding Linux, they just are not seeing the return
to make it a priority. He mentions that Mac does better than Linux, but
perhaps not enough, again, to be a priority.

~~~
zanny
I went looking for a record of the statistics, but I know that the Humble
Indie Bundle 9 had a larger gross revenue share from Linux than Mac, plus
significantly higher per-user average payments from those who claimed Linux.

But yeah, Steamboxes will make Linux a viable sales platform for games.
Without it, you are basically looking at an OS that users have to manually
install unless you buy from one of the three Linux pc boutiques online or the
specific Dell / HP laptops with Ubuntu, and then you still only have Ubuntu as
a distro option.

If Linux ends up in stores, especially on the cheaper end playing all the
Indie games, running SteamOS at least, the market will explode.

I want to say I'm disappointed id is becoming effectively dropping the
platform, especially when it has higher adoption numbers now than it ever did
when they released any other game for it. Their games probably represent 90%
of pre-Humble Bundle / Steam hours played on Linux, considering all the mods
and such.

~~~
ewzimm
I think the takeaway is there are less people interested in playing a
traditional deathmatch first person shooter on Linux than other platforms.
Personally, I find them to be boring and overdone. There are much more
exciting types of games being made by the indie community than a modified
version of a game from 1996.

~~~
zanny
Quake Live is based off Quake 3 which was released at the end of '99, but I
get the point.

Ironically though most of their Linux based competition (Xonotic, Open Arena,
etc) all use the quake 1 - 3 engines.

------
wbobeirne
What a strange turn of events for gaming on Linux. AAA developers are porting
their games over, while iD is pulling support. I don't think anyone would have
guessed this.

~~~
asdf1234
Other than Valve what AAA developers are porting their games to Linux? I
suspect opinions differ wildly on what constitutes a AAA developer. None of
the developers that regularly top the console sales charts are working on
Linux ports.

~~~
vinkelhake
4A Games just released Metro: Last Light for Linux. I would say it's a AAA
title, but I'd rather not get into a "no true Scotsman" kind of thing.

------
sdfjkl
Whilst abandoning the browser plugin stuff makes every sense (it never worked
well, on any platform), dropping Linux/OS X at a time where those platforms
are on the rise (especially with Valve's move to Linux and Windows 8 being
universally disliked) is probably not the right direction.

------
prg318
As a decade long Quake Live player and subscriber, I am really disappointed by
this move. The team was forced to make this move because of the lack of native
browser plugin support in future Chrome versions. It seems that the QL team
only has one developer at the moment and he is not familiar with Linux.

Seems like a wrong move to move away from Linux/OSX when the rest of the
gaming industry is moving towards Linux/OSX...

------
Slackwise
Quake Live is just Quake 3, which was native and cross-platform by design. Why
the hell are they removing OSX/Linux support? Are there any technical reasons
for this?

If they were smart, they'd put it on Steam, integrate some Steamworks stuff,
and enjoy a larger fanbase along with relying less on their own backends.
Steamworks could even help them monetize things like skins.

~~~
Fingel
That's exactly what I was thinking. Quake Live was cool because it was Quake
III running in the browser. Take it out of the browser and it becomes... Quake
III again. Which is cross platform. What the hell?

~~~
epsylon
There's been a lot of code that's been written / rewritten for QL.

------
arca_vorago
Slightly related story, first time I ever played Quake Live was against
F4taL1tY, with instagib railguns. I lost by one point and challenged him to a
CS match. (played cal back in the pre-source days) He declined... but I got a
signed t-shirt.

~~~
hajderr
those days with Doomer, Lakerman, czm...ahh

~~~
kayoone
i know all these names, they were my heroes! XSReality, Eurocup, Razer
CPL..those were the days :D

------
Herald_MJ
Isn't "Native Quake Live" just Quake 3 with adverts?

~~~
Strom
Quake Live has better matchmaking support etc.

------
viraptor
This is really bizarre. I couldn't find any reasons for the move mentioned.
Does anyone know why they did this?

For me that means just dropping QL unfortunately.

~~~
prg318
From the linked forum post:

\-- Over the past few years, browser support for plugins such as QUAKE LIVE
have dropped off significantly, causing problems for plugins to operate in a
consistent and working manner. With the recent announcement of Google Chrome's
roadmap to turning off plugin support and the upcoming changes in Firefox, it
seems that now is the time to make the transition. \--

------
hackinthebochs
This isn't a "bad move" for them by any stretch. It's a cost/benefit ratio
that doesn't lean in favor of linux. The iD that would burn cash just to serve
the community is long gone. There just isn't much return on investment from
their perspective to maintain a linux port.

------
zacinbusiness
Breaking News: Soon you will GET to play Quake as a program that you download
and install, rather than HAVING to play it in the browser
because...seriously...who wants to do that?

------
LandoCalrissian
Didn't Quake 3 originally work on Linux?

~~~
FedRegister
The source code for the Quake 3 engine was also released under the GPL and is
available from the ioquake3[1] project. It's currently ported to work under at
least Windows, Mac (Universal Binaries), Linux (x86, x86_64, and PPC), and
Solaris (both SPARC and x86).

[1] [http://ioquake3.org/](http://ioquake3.org/)

------
bWare_iWare
Quake Live is already native and fully supports Linux. They are only changing
the installer from a browser plug-in to a stand alone. Given that they
acknowledge they have customers on Mac and Linux and yet they couldn't be
bothered to choose an installer that supported them I think we all know where
this is heading.

~~~
gambiting
They only thing I will say about that is that there is only a single developer
working on this project at the moment,so maybe his resources are better used
on something else than developing a mac/linux installer.

------
kayoone
I dont get really get why they dont use asm.js/nativeclient to make it work
without plugins on all platforms. Probably too much hassle but a game like
QuakeLive feels like the perfect candidate for asm.js (Quake3 codebase is
already opne source, relatively small, not resource heavy, OpenGL based)

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swinglock
Quake Live was always native. This is just what it says in the post;
standalone from the browser.

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staunch
I've been using Linux as long as I've been playing Quake, since 1996. I'm a
Pro subscriber to QL. This doesn't bother me. What bothers me is no Rocket
Arena mode!

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macspoofing
Feels like a step back.

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thrillgore
Has Quake Live ever made any money for id/Bethesda? It seemed like a loss
leader every time I played. No real ads, just lots of begging for "gold."

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Globz
What a strange decision...and why dropping support for Linux? I feel this will
be a bad move.

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Cowboy_X
Wouldn't Google Chrome'a "native client" be a perfect fit for this?

