
Free the Public Universities - benbreen
http://chronicle.com/article/Free-the-Public-Universities/236372
======
bko
I've begun to regard statements of "decrease funding" by media reports with
skepticism. Usually "cuts in spending" means "reductions in the projected
growth rate of spending". I believe that absolute state funding of public
universities is on the decline though in the last few years, but its important
to note the levels in a historic context. If you increase spending
substantially, and then proceed to decrease it in the following years, that's
not the same as a steady erosion of funding over decades.

It appears as though there was a huge spike in funding around the time of the
financial crisis, and now it has been dropping over the last few years back to
levels closer to that of the 1990s [0]. Not sure why most articles point to
the high water mark of the last 5-10 years as the benchmark for cuts.

[0] [http://www.randalolson.com/2014/05/20/skyrocketing-
student-e...](http://www.randalolson.com/2014/05/20/skyrocketing-student-
enrollment-is-partly-to-blame-for-rising-college-costs/)

~~~
ianlevesque
You don't even have to leave the first paragraph to see that there has been a
real and significant decline over decades: "The University of California at
Berkeley, one of the leading public research universities in the nation, now
receives only about 13 percent of its budget from state appropriations,
compared with about 50 percent a few decades ago."

~~~
x1798DE
How does that indicate that the actual amount of spending went down? That just
says that the growth in the allocation from the government has not kept up
with the growth from other sources.

------
KKKKkkkk1
Universities that are funded by federal research grants and tuition payed for
by Department of Education-guaranteed loans cannot be called privatized by any
stretch of imagination. The mess that exists in the US higher-ed system
mirrors the mess in the US health-care system. Providing tax breaks and public
funding, and then letting the beneficiaries of that funding do whatever they
see fit with it is arguably what created the mess in the first place.

------
davidf18
Affordable Care Act co-creater Ezekiel Emanuel, MD PhD, health economist
Victor Fuchs, and Peter Orszag, former OMB director all have stated that the
increased state Medicaid costs caused by the ACA have lead to less funding for
state funded public higher education. Thus, the ACA leads to even less funding
for higher education.

Most developed countries that have universal care (eg, Canada, UK, France,
...) have high tobacco taxes to help pay for health care. The taxes help to
pay for the increased health care costs of smokers while also helping smokers
to quit.

Our Federal tax is $1.01.

~~~
rebootthesystem
Using taxation for behavior modification is wrong. The public is helpless and
powerless in going up against the sheer horsepower government can deploy to
force you to pay taxes or adopt the behavior they want you to start, quit or
modify.

This idea of taxing anything we can pull out of our asses is perverted in so
many ways. Tax pencils so people use less paper? Sure. Tax bank ATM
transactions so people do more online? Why not. Tax anything we can imagine at
any time.

I have a very fundamental problem with this idea of taxing whatever the fuck
politicians can imagine because it leads to more waste, misuse and more
control of the people by government.

Case in point: One of my favorites is the County of Los Angeles Business
Property Tax.

What do you think this is? You think "property tax", it must be tax on a
building you own.

Wrong.

This is a tax on EVERYTHING you have inside the building. Any property the
business owns, is taxed. Property? Yes, your desk, stapler, photocopier,
chairs, coffee machine, tables, printers, computers, projectors, etc. Even
tenant improvement costs are considered "business property" and fall under
this tax.

And you get taxed on this crap FOREVER!

So, you bought a desk, paid state sales tax when you did and now you get to
pay the County of Los Angeles a small annual tax on that desk in perpetuity
based on the value of the desk every year.

Do you have a factory full of CNC machines and sophisticated manufacturing
equipment? Pay up!

Do you have a small tech company with a couple of dozen cubicles and nice
computers? Pay up!

It's sick. Truly sick. We are being taxed to death from every angle. Very soon
they are going to install a fart meter in every chair and find a way to tax
your farts.

Where does the money go? Who knows. As I said, truly sick.

~~~
robotresearcher
> Where does the money go? Who knows.

Here you go:

[https://www.lacounty.gov/residents](https://www.lacounty.gov/residents)

This is such outrages as Parks and Rec, libraries, the Sheriff's Office,
County Jail, providing basic services to 1m unincorporated LA residents, etc.

~~~
rebootthesystem
You misunderstood (and I didn't do a good job of stating my position).

I am NOT saying that taxation is wrong or that we should not pay taxes. We
have to pay for the cost of running everything you listed and more.

What I am saying is that waking up every day to a new tax on something else
someone pulled out of their ass is wrong. And that using taxation to influence
behavior is also wrong.

One tax. That's it. Clean. Clear. Transparent. Full accountability.

Things have devolve to the point where nobody can truly understand how much
money we are handing our government in the way of taxes. So many taxes, from
so many angles. It ultimately means less money in your pocket and more
government waste. They are not accountable for anything at all. And pecking at
your money from a million little angles make that easier.

Look at the roads in California. Now they are saying we don't have enough
money and have to raise taxes. Really? Where did all of that money we pay at
the pump (probably the highest taxed gasoline in the nation) go? I'll be if we
look it went into ridiculous pension plans and benefits. So, they've had a
party on our dime and now that the roads are falling apart they are going to
make us pay for it AGAIN while they all retire on the fat pensions they got
with our tax money.

Government has devolved into something sick and disgusting. While we are all
busy earning a living they take sweet rides on our backs. Next they are going
to tax our farts just so they can throw nicer holiday parties.

------
stevesearer
The local community college here in Santa Barbara just announced a new program
to make tuition and books free for students from within the local area.

[http://m.keyt.com/news/santa-barbara-city-college-offers-
fre...](http://m.keyt.com/news/santa-barbara-city-college-offers-free-tuition-
for-south-coast-students/39419710)

~~~
newjersey
> The program will cost 5 million for the first three years. After that the
> foundation will have to create an endowment of 30 million to make sure the
> program continues indefinitely.

I think this is great news. However, I have some questions. How much will the
program cost per student (what are the fixed and variable costs)? What is the
program doing to keep costs low?

------
dudifordMann
Tuition has been on the rise, from what I can tell, due to excessive,
frivolous and/or unchecked expenditures[1][2] with the guise of benefiting the
universities and their students.

One example is the ridiculous salaries payed to the athletic staffs of these
universities. Even the research universities like UC Berkley pay upwards of
5.4 million contracted salary[3]. The counter argument to this is that these
sports programs pay for the research( though some believe that is more often
not the case[4]) So even if I grant that this may be true, and I understand
supply and demand principals of "talented" coaches, come the ____on, these are
just sports. And many athletic department, not all , are doing a great
disservice to many of the athletes who are not encourage to reap the academic
benefits the schools have to offer[5], when a scant percentage even move on to
Olympic or professional sports careers[6]

I think step 0 of this article's intended plan should be to look at spending,
and have accountability, remove internal bureaucracy and reduce some of the
ridiculous salaries (coaches, presidents, etc) and determine what a fair
tuition looks like.

[1][http://www.texaspolicy.com/blog/detail/more-outrageous-
spend...](http://www.texaspolicy.com/blog/detail/more-outrageous-spending-at-
a-texas-public-university)

[2][http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-uc-
spending-201...](http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-uc-
spending-20151011-story.html)

[3]
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6sm-b1X...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6sm-b1X_xO0J:humanraceandothersports.com/columns/649/philosophy-
and-football+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

[4][http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2014/dec/22/ji...](http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2014/dec/22/jim-
moran/moran-says-only-20-colleges-make-profit-sports/)

[5][http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2014/06/01/Do-
col...](http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2014/06/01/Do-colleges-
drop-the-ball-with-student-athletes/stories/201406010120)

[6][http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-
proba...](http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-
competing-professional-athletics)

~~~
maxerickson
Coach pay at major conference schools is not a cost that students see. For
instance, the Pac 12 has a 12 year, $3 billion TV deal. $250 million per year
over 12 schools is $20 million per school. And they also have things like
ticket revenue (tens of millions for football alone).

[http://www.bruinsnation.com/2011/5/4/2153940/breaking-
down-t...](http://www.bruinsnation.com/2011/5/4/2153940/breaking-down-the-
pac-12s-new-tv-deal-with-espn-fox-pac-12-network)

I think it's a bad joke that they are called amateur student athletes, but it
isn't costing other students money.

~~~
dudifordMann
Right... so... if the coach is payed say less, than... could the students see
a decrease in their tuition bill as the funds for the coach have freed up?
Now, I am terrible at evaluating worth, especially for things as potentially
complex as leading a sports team (was success due to the athletes? strategies?
leadership? etc. Similarly for failure), but if Nick Saban is making 7.09 per
year at Alabama, with a student population of 36k, the full salary divided by
the population would be about $196 per year, which I am sure a student would
love to see. (obviously my math is assuming full salary liquidation which is
not realistic).

~~~
LanceH
Finances for Div 1:
[http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/](http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/)

Most athletic depts are subsized and this is just division 1. There are
obviously a few winners here, but mostly losers and definitely a net loss.

Having been around that environment, it's just amazing how much money is being
thrown around. The whole athletic budget is a giant slush fund, but they're
just taking the lead from the university as a whole.

------
DarkContinent
Two questions only: Who pays? That is, whose money funds these programs?

~~~
grendelt
Only people that read headlines and don't read the article have to pay.

------
yummyfajitas
tl;dr; "We want less oversight. But keep those checks coming!"

~~~
rsfern
I don't think that's a fair reading. I think it's reasonable to suggest that
state governments ease up on the beauracracy in light of the decline in
funding.

~~~
yummyfajitas
State governments have reduced funding by about 10% per student, and increased
them in general (the number of students went up significantly).

[https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/higher-
education/rep...](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/higher-
education/report/2014/01/28/83049/public-college-quality-compact-for-students-
and-taxpayers/)

The fact that costs are out of control (notice the 200% increase in tuition)
suggests more oversight is needed, not less.

~~~
rsfern
That report makes some interesting points about the increasing role of student
loan debt covering the rise in tuition. They don't really suggest what
universities should do though, it's more state-level reform: standardize
admissions and credit transfer, bring primary and secondary education up to
par... How do you propose getting costs under control?

Interestingly, the OP (the chronicle) states that the cut in state funding per
student is 25% since 2000 vs 10% over 2003--2012 (citing dept of Ed). I wonder
where the writer for the chronicle got their data? I still think the OP makes
some valid points.

~~~
yummyfajitas
Increasing the # of students per class, increasing reliance on cheap adjuncts,
reducing amenities, lowering pay/benefits, firing unneeded administrators.
(Last one is a biggie.)

More generally, I could favor a plan which gives the universities "freedom".
Specifically, we cap tuition + fees, eliminate most regulations on university
behavior, and reduce funding. We should also make a policy that if there is
significant student lobbying for more funding, the college president is fired.
(That reduces the motivation to run a Washington Monument strategy [1].)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument_Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument_Syndrome)

