
European Parliament Says Snowden Should Be Welcomed in Europe - TomAnthony
https://theintercept.com/2015/10/29/european-parliament-says-snowden-should-be-welcomed-in-europe/
======
bedane
Reminder: the last time European authorities thought Snowden was in Europe,
this happened:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident)

Illegal, Insulting for a friendly country and 100% rumour-based, it
nevertheless happened and we all know what would have followed if Snowden was
actually on that plane.

So, yeah, talk is really cheap.

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jacquesm
Talk is cheap. Looking forward to a EU country that will step up to the plate
and do something rather than just talk.

~~~
Tomte
Are you aware that the European Parliament has nothing to do with individual
member countries' governments?

~~~
listic
Does it have any authority, then?

~~~
gambiting
Both yes and no. It can issue a directive but individual EU countries could
still elect to ignore it. Very few do, and it happens rarely, but they can
ignore EU directives.

It's as if states in the US could ignore federal law. The difference is that
in US the federal government could actually send federal agents to arrest the
governor and bring him for trial for breaking federal law, but in EU nothing
would happen. The EU parliament _might_ try to put sanctions on a country for
not following a directive, but then again, other countries would need to agree
to it. So if the issue is a hot one, not much can be done.

~~~
germanier
The European Parliament can't issue directive on its own (it needs to be
introduced by the European Commission, and also approved for by
repressentatives of the governments).

If an directive has been issued, it can't be ignored by the member states. If
they do, they can be forced to do follow it by a European court as they act
against the European treaties they signed.

The European parliament can't issue sanctions against anybody, because that's
not in their power as defined in the EU treaties.

What the EU parliament can do in this case (and what do actually did here) is
issue a sternly worded letter. They can also try to bring the EU Commission or
the member states to do something.

~~~
lhopki01
This is not quite true. The EU can issue fines. The fines are enforceable in
each member's courts because of the treaties they signed up to as part of the
EU.

But you're right in this case the EU can't do anything about Snowden. It's
really just a motion calling on EU national governments.

~~~
germanier
For the mentioned directives you are right, the way to force them on non-
compliant member states is through fines (but those are enforced in the ECJ).
However, it's well established that they have a direct effect on individuals
even when member states refuse to comply (see for example Francovich v Italy).
Also, in many cases the EU can issue _regulations_. Those are directly valid
in all member states without them needing to do anything.

~~~
stevetrewick
AIUI, either the Council (of ministers, i.e. the various appointed government
representatives) or the Commission ( the technocratic bureaucracy which may
have regulatory power delegated to them in some area of competence by the
Council) can issue a regulation. The parliament, however, cannot.

Power in 'the EU' is wielded largely by the CoM and the Commission, the
parliament is just a side show. The EU is a fundamentally technocratic, not
democratic, institution, This is by design.

 _edit : fat fingers_

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cryoshon
Snowden should be welcomed in the USA, too.

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mcv
It's about time. Unfortunately it's not really up to the Europarliament. It's
a nice signal, but it doesn't mean that Snowden will get asylum; that's still
up to the individual countries.

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forloop
If I've learned anything from the "war" on drugs: don't trust politicians and
governments. They'll lie relentlessly; even in the face of evidence.

~~~
ucaetano
_If I 've learned anything from the "war" on drugs: don't trust politicians
and governments. They'll lie relentlessly; even in the face of evidence._

If I've learned anything from being a human: don't trust humans. They'll lie
relentlessly; even in the face of evidence.

~~~
enraged_camel
Not so. Politicians lie far more often than the average person. It is easy to
see why: a politician's job is to get re-elected, and the best way to do that
is to please their campaign donors while simultaneously lying through their
teeth to tell the voters what they want to hear.

~~~
ucaetano
I'd love to see data on that. Maybe their lies are just more public. They're
all humans, after all.

~~~
forloop
I would love do see any data/evidence from you.

> Maybe their lies are just more public. They're all humans, after all.

...your evidence is _your_ previous, unproven argument.

~~~
ucaetano
I don't have evidence either way, that why there's a "maybe" there.

Politicians lie, humans lie, and politicians are humans. Unless there's some
strong evidence, claiming that politicians lie more than the average human
makes no sense.

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martiuk
For anyone who doesn't know, as a non-binding resolution this means any/all of
the member states can ignore it without consequence.

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rumcajz
Here's the split of votes per country:
[http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-follow-up-to-the-
european-p...](http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-follow-up-to-the-european-
parliament-resolution-of-12-march-2014-on-the-electronic-mass-
surveillance-25.html#/##vote-tabs-list-4)

~~~
tripzilch
Are you sure that's the right link?

When I click on the "View text on the Parliament site" link (
[http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&re...](http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&reference=B8-2015-1092&language=EN)
), I get to a page with a very wordy sort of proposal about a whole lot of
privacy-related matters, but it doesn't mention Snowden anywhere?

This seems to be the right text, though (which does mention Snowden):
[http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...](http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P8-TA-2015-0388+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=EN)

Ugh, that site is such a maze.

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espresso_enigma
I doubt Snowden would be foolish enough to set foot anywhere in Europe, no
matter what they say. I'd be willing to bet the CIA has people all over Europe
that would be smacking their lips, not to mention the US would probably have
extradition leverage that it doesn't have with Russia.

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spacecowboy_lon
This smacks of cheap anti Americanism

~~~
toomuchtodo
As an American, I can say without a doubt that the anti-Americanism we're
generating throughout the world is not cheap to generate.

Be a bully, get treated like a bully.

~~~
spacecowboy_lon
Well not that America does herself any favors - however there is a strain of
european anti americanism. But of course they love Le McDonald's and Le Coke
Cola ;-)

Back when I worked for the .coop registry we found this as some of the
European coop considered the internet a Capatiist/CIA plot.

There is also the older and dieing out British Tory's who blame you for the
loss of empire.

~~~
ionised
> Well not that America does herself any favors - however there is a strain of
> european anti americanism.

There are plenty of reasons for this.

> But of course they love Le McDonald's and Le Coke Cola.

I personally don't buy either product because they both taste gross to me, but
even if I did, how would that be relevant to US foreign policy or treatment of
whistleblowers?

~~~
spacecowboy_lon
I wasn't talking about post 9/11 issues but the post ww2 settlement and the
rise of the USA as a super power.

And I could think of EU country that treat whistle blowers badly or behave
badly in pursuit of foreign policy

