

TSA to download your iTunes? - pquerna
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/18/tsa-to-download-your-itunes/

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jrockway
This is why I travel with a netbook that has full-disk encryption. If the
government wants my laptop, they can have it for as long as they want. $300,
whatever. If they want to compel disclosure of the passphrase, though, that's
not as easy. Then judges and the Constitution get involved.

What I've learned from reading cases (and watching Law & Order, heh) is that
if the police have evidence against you, it's easier for them to get what they
want from the courts. "We already saw the child porn, we just want to check
for more."

If all they have is a disk they can't read, it's going to be hard to get any
judge to compel you to produce the key, especially if they can't prove you
have the key. (And, in the US anyway, there is some precedent that you can't
be compelled to produce the key anyway.)

The government wants more power, but the people have the power to take it
away. It's just a checkbox away in your favorite OS's installer. (Well, in
Debian anyway.)

With talk of 20 year prison sentences for ordering manga from Japan or talking
to people on Myspace, I think it's pretty insane to not encrypt your disks.
Who knows what someone else will think is illegal? I would rather not find
out.

~~~
tptacek
This works up until the point where it's decided that refusal to disclose your
password, while not a criminal offense in any way, is grounds to prevent you
from boarding your flight.

~~~
jrockway
Customs is after you arrive, so whatever.

If I'm ever in this situation, I fully expect to be arrested (and released 23
hours later with no charges filed), though.

(Expect the worst and you won't be surprised.)

~~~
ojbyrne
Customs is not after you arrive in all cases (Canada and the Caribbean have
"pre-inspection" centers at most airports).

------
rit
The TSA has posted an official reply to this:

That's the Customs and Border Control's Job not ours. You can tell the
difference because their uniform is NAVY blue and ours is more of a ROYAL
blue. (I'm paraphrasing here but only barely. THEY ACTUALLY POINT OUT THE
UNIFORM COLOR DIFF).

I wish/hope this was/is a joke:

[http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2010/01/can-tsa-copy-your-laptop-
har...](http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2010/01/can-tsa-copy-your-laptop-hard-drive-
and.html)

~~~
milkshakes
As much as I hate to agree with him ( [http://reason.com/blog/2010/01/19/tsa-
pays-blogger-to-mock-p...](http://reason.com/blog/2010/01/19/tsa-pays-blogger-
to-mock-peopl) ), in this case "Blogger Bob" has a point. It was customs, and
not DHS who actually searched the laptop.

The court case:
[http://fourthamendment.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&title=s...](http://fourthamendment.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&title=s_d_tex_border_search_of_computer_for_ch)

~~~
Sukotto
Speaking as a fairly frequent traveler here...

In my mind, there are two sets of uniformed people at the airport. "Airline
worker" (gate agent, skycap, pilots, etc) who are there to help me.... and
"TSA" (Anyone with a badge, possibly a gun, and the ability to basically do
whatever the hell they want) who are there to make life demeaning.

It doesn't matter to me that the dark blue person is Homeland Security, the
pale blue person is Customs, and the in-between blue one is Immigration. They
are all equally "the man" and equally capable putting me on the "fuck that
guy" list.

Intellectually I understand that many of them perform a valuable service.
Emotionally I fear (and by extension: hate) them and have grown to dread
traveling.

~~~
potatolicious
CBP is a different sort of dickheadedness than TSA.

TSA: Undertrained goons hopped up on terrorism paranoia. Will make your life
absolutely miserable if given the prompt to do so (e.g., a tiny contraband
item in your carry-on). Can't do _too_ much to make your life miserable
outside of missing your flight.

CBP: Will. Fuck. You. Up. As a non-American working in the US, I fear the CBP
like the motherfucking gestapo. Each agent wields an insane amount of power to
alter one's legal status in the USA, and they never hesitate to express this
power to you. Unlike the TSA agents, who get no respect from even their
employer, CBP goons are given a huge amount of unquestionable leeway in their
jobs.

I've seen TSA workers cite regulation after regulation to make a traveler's
life hell - but they've always been professional at least on the surface. I've
seen CBP agents be blatantly racist, insulting, and grossly unprofessional and
conduct themselves in ways unbecoming of a human being, much less a government
representative. And there's not a damn thing that can be done.

~~~
jrockway
I'm a US citizen, and my experience has been the opposite.

Of course, US Immigration/Customs is not nearly as nice as immigration in
other countries, but that's to be expected. (When I visit Norway and Denmark,
the immigration people actually _smile_ at you. When I visited Germany, the
immigration officer actually laughed at something I said. It's like they are
real people or something!)

~~~
ugh
Why is that to be expected?

~~~
dedward
Because when something happens over and over and over again, you tend to
expect it to keep happening.

~~~
jrockway
Because the US takes immigration and police in general too seriously. Everyone
is a criminal. Nobody is to be trusted.

Compare this to Europe (minus the UK and France), where people in positions of
authority treat you nicely until they have a solid reason to do otherwise.

"Cultural difference" or whatever.

------
anigbrowl
From the article: _[4th amendment] protections do not disappear merely because
one happens to be at a real - or imaginary - border._

Ah, but they do. It's called the 'border search exception' and it has been
consistently upheld by courts, based largely on the 5th act of Congress passed
in 1789 which set up the US Customs Service. Not only are searches of laptops
and storage devices considered reasonable in this context, but so is opening
mail and just about anything short of a strip search.

This has been argued over on a variety of grounds quite recently but the
courts have stood firm on it. So like it or not, it's better to avoid carrying
any storage device containing data that might be construed as suspicious.

~~~
jrockway
Indeed. Just send it via the Internet, where packets are not opened and
inspected before entering the country.

Sometimes I think that government policies are implemented only to make people
feel powerful. We can search your laptop!

OK, but I can just send the data to my home computer via the Internet, and
just carry my wiped laptop across the border.

~~~
milkshakes
You're joking right?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#Dat...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#Data_monitoring)

~~~
jrockway
But they haven't broken AES or the key exchange protocols. Nobody sends
important data across the Internet unencrypted.

~~~
milkshakes
DJB had some interesting thoughts on AES and its vulnerability to timing based
attacks, here: <http://cr.yp.to/antiforgery/cachetiming-20050414.pdf>

While network latencies would definitely make this type of attack more
challenging to implement, AES is not invincible.

And that's just the stuff we hear about :)

~~~
tedunangst
If you're sending encrypted files across the internet, the government doesn't
get to see how long it took to encrypt the data. And if you're running an open
"encrypt anything my secret key" oracle, well, you get what you deserve.

~~~
jrockway
Indeed. This sort of attack is good for breaking DRM, but not so good for any
legitimate uses of cryptography.

------
hannibalhorn
It's worth nothing that CBP cannot compel you to give them your password(s),
and can't really refuse entry to a US citizen, so as long as you encrypt
everything your laptop should be secure. They can of course confiscate the
machine to image it - and you may not get it back while it's still worth
anything - but, what can you do.

The iPhone is trickier, mAdvLock is the only thing I know of that would most
likely work even if it was confiscated.

------
piguy314
Nobody disputes, or should dispute, the right of a sovereign nation to perform
invasive searches at international borders. What is most serious and egregious
in the DHS/CBP behavior is the slippery slope of trying to change the
definition of an international border. The 4th amendment in no way protects
you from a border search, but saying that 100 miles inside the country is an
international border is ludicrous.

