
The Age of Rudeness - kawera
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/magazine/the-age-of-rudeness.html?pagewanted=all
======
cyberferret
In a strange mirroring of the article itself, I clicked on the link with
preconceived ideas about what it was going to say. Before I read the first
paragraph, I was formulating counter points in my head, as well as examples of
my own experiences of being at the receiving edge of rudeness. I could feel my
blood temperature rising with excitement and affront.

But as I read through this excellent essay, I found myself taking on the
actions of her painter friend in the airport security line. I simply let
myself read, and absorb the words - without judgement, without getting
indignant or self righteous at the injustice of the situations she described.

I read the section on her interaction with the sales assistant in the clothes
shop, with much sadness. I realised that in my everyday dealings, I (and
possibly many others) flit between the persona of the assistant, and the
author.

And in the spirit of her painter friend, I'd simply like to say "Thank You" to
whomever posted this article here for me to find and read.

~~~
clort
I don't really understand why she would be considered rude for her comment to
the sales assistant "No, I say. Actually, I don’t want to come out". Its a bit
of a flat statement. Perhaps saying something that has a subtext ("Actually,
you are pissing me off with your overattentive pushy sales technique") is
being rude?

In that type of case, I always think that it is difficult for both her, and
the sales assistant because the person who set the situation up, the
impersonal marketing manager at head office who insist that their front line
staff act this way are the ones who are being rude and the people on location
are both just acting their parts and if they are not comfortable with it there
is nothing they can do at that time. The easiest thing they can do is to
refuse to interact with that company (either not shopping there, or not
working there) though that is not necessarily the most effective way to fix
the problem, which is communicating with the person who has set the situation
up. For the sales employee it could perhaps be keeping a log of customer
interactions and return it to the management to show that this strategy is
ineffective (it may not be!). For the customer, it could be writing to the
customer service and suggesting that the reason they didn't buy anything was
that the sales assistant was too pushy. In both cases though, I would worry
that the management would simply blame the sales assistant for the lack of the
sale.

~~~
cyberferret
I think what the author was trying to get across with that particular story is
that any message is dependent on how the recipient chooses to interpret it.

I mean, the airport attendant probably thought they were being efficient and
direct by barking orders to the crowd. The sales lady probably thought she was
being attentive and useful. Under totally different circumstances (i.e. if the
author visited the dress shop after getting a promotion etc.), the interaction
could have been very different and they could have played off each other. In
this case, the interaction fell flat because each party had different goals
and objectives, as well as a different history getting up to that point.

There are a million ways to interpret the "No, I don't want to come out"
sentence. (1) She could be simply a rude customer (2) The customer may have
had some body shaming issues that makes it difficult for them to show
themselves half undressed to a stranger or, similarly (3) the customer may
have religious or cultural issues around that, or occam's razor - (4) the
customer simply did not like the sales person or the dress and didn't want to
continue the engagement any further. And everything in between that.

The salesperson chose to interpret it their own way. On a different day, she
may have shrugged it off. On a particular difficult day, she may take it as a
personal slight. Perhaps she felt that she had some sort of rapport with the
customer based on her accepting the offer to try on the dress, and was
personally hurt when it turned out not to be so?

------
jackvalentine
> _Are people rude because they are unhappy?_

I can only answer this for myself and it is painful to do so.

I am, currently, a rude person. I haven't always been but I believe it is
because of a deep disappointment in myself.

I find myself relishing moments in which I am 'right' and can vanquish those
that are 'wrong'.

After these moments pass I am embarrassed.

~~~
vermooten
I went through several years of depression, and I was VERY rude in any
situation where I could get away with it - by which I mean, any situtioon
where I knew I wouldn't get punched. It felt like I was able to be me, and not
have to stick to the script.

~~~
Arizhel
>I was VERY rude in any situation where I could get away with it - by which I
mean, any situtioon where I knew I wouldn't get punched.

There sure isn't any shortage of rudeness on these anonymous/pseudonymous
online forums, and I'm sure much of it is precisely because people aren't
afraid of getting punched, or really having to answer personally for their
rude behavior.

------
michaelvoz
Decent article - but she does try to stress the brexit references, as well as
references to modern politics and the divisions thereof. Would have been a
better piece if she stuck more to her points of analyzing "The Age of
Rudeness"

~~~
beobab
Do you think that because you disagree with her political views?

Genuinely curious. Doing a study on how people interpret texts. Agreement
seems to be a significant factor in how much people like an article.

~~~
scotty79
For me it seems to be a bit tacked on. Rundness is a timeless human thing,
brexit is in this context just a contemporary local buzzword with relevance
limited in scope and time.

~~~
Neliquat
Yup. It seems every article I read in 2017 has some forced refrence to Brexit,
Trump, or Protests. While my views on those things are not strong, seeing them
interrupts my stream of thought when attached to something unrelated. Then I
am forced to wonder what views the author is projecting by the inclusion. What
was I reading again? Annoying af.

------
dmh2000
she lost me when she criticized his shirt, pants and tie as if that made him a
lesser being.

~~~
snerbles
Lamenting the manners of society whilst being rude herself.

------
H4CK3RM4N
This seems to be largely retreading of traditional complaints about the
deterioration of society[1].

Her comments on the airport staff in particular seem to be exaggerating the
issues. In both cases, it seems the author is unable to accept that the staff
might just be following rules.

The comments on political developments in particular seem rather disconnected.
In particular:

> The liberal elite, as far as I am aware, do not make death threats.

This comment in particular really exemplifies the holier than thou attitude
which many liberals appear to be unable to get over[2]. Being unable to engage
with the other side of the political spectrum is (to me) ruder than retail and
airport staff following a script to the point of being overbearing.

Her section on trying on an outfit in particular seems to be her attempting to
'reach out' to the retail worker, in spite of her implied superiority as the
consumer in this situation. This really grates with me in terms of the holier
than thou attitude I mentioned earlier.

> I consider the role that good manners might play in the sphere of rat-eating

This really seems to be her placing herself morally above others through being
tolerant and caring, which ultimately helps nobody. I'm reminded of a quote
from one of Term Pratchett's books, "[i]f civilization were to collapse
totally and the survivors were reduced to eating cockroaches, Madame Dawning
would still use a napkin and look down on people who ate their cockroaches the
wrong way around."

Ultimately this smacks of the sorts of idealised view of civilised behaviour
which pervaded the British Empire, and ultimately did terrible things when
they met another culture. This seems to be an attempt to rationalise retaining
the customs of that era without the social classes that came with it.

[1] [https://xkcd.com/1227/](https://xkcd.com/1227/)

[2]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20170412021638/https://www.reddi...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170412021638/https://www.reddit.com/r/Fuckthealtright/comments/64sqod/i_think_this_picture_speaks_for_itself/)
(go to the fourth comment from the top)

~~~
ghoshbishakh
> seems the author is unable to accept that the staff might just be following
> rules.

One can follow rules while being polite.

~~~
H4CK3RM4N
I fail to see how most of the staff were _really_ being rude. The retail
worker in particular.

~~~
sgt101
I think that the inappropriate attempt to capture social capital and convert
it into financial gain is rude. When you are able to develop a proper exchange
with a retailer - for example to be able to ask about quality or suitability
and get advice based on your relationship with them - this is a useful and
pleasant experience. When you are captured by a script and then pressured into
either being rude to an innocent party or doing what the retailer wants,
that's rude. The staff are not rude, they are victims, pawns, the retailers
are rude - primitive, obvious and unregarding others. Venal.

------
checkmatelib
> The liberal elite, as far as I am aware, do not make death threats

I guess the author is choosing to ignore all the "Bash the fash" "Punch a
Nazi" violent resistance to any ideas that don't support the liberal elite's
sacred cows.

~~~
Jweb_Guru
Does "Nazis are bad" really qualify as a liberal elite position? Oh wait I
just saw your username.

~~~
jshevek
You created a strawman in your misrepresentation of the parent comment.

Edit: "Does "Nazis are bad" really qualify as a liberal elite position? Oh
wait I just saw your username."

------
pixelbreaker
You lost me when you started talking about Jesus.

~~~
ggggtez
I don't know who you think you're talking to... You mean the author lost you?
Have you never heard of Jesus before?

I'd say dismissing someone because they expressed a phrase that offended you
is exactly the crux of the article.

