
Show HN: Fine Wordclocks: more than a time piece, they are a piece of art - matt_the_bass
http://www.finewordclocks.com
======
matt_the_bass
Hi Everyone. I have a Show HN that is a little different than what’s typical.
My side project is building word clocks. I’ve developed the entire physical
item including the mechanical design, the manufacturing design, the electrical
design, and the firmware. Moderator Dan saw this listed in my profile and
suggested I share it.

I was inspired to make my first word clock after stumbling upon a DIY design
on hack-a-day[0]. I really liked the idea of a wordclock but felt that the
designs I found online were too DIY or too modern metal and sterile. I wanted
a design that was both elegantly styled and with a professional finish.

My first word clock was given as a present to my parents and it still hangs in
their home today. I made more clocks similar to that first design which I also
gave out as gifts to friends and family. Later, I developed a simplified
design that I donated to AS220, my local Providence artist group, where I
periodically teach a word clock making workshop[1].

After a few years of producing word clocks for gifts and fun, I developed my
first word clock which is for sale. It utilizes a combination of fine
craftsmanship and clever electronics to produce a one of a kind piece of
practical art. I’m proud of the fit and finish of my word clocks and want to
share them with people who want more than just a utilitarian tool.

I do all the fabrication myself in my basement. Now that I have the
manufacturing process down, I’m ready to start marketing them. I’m promoting
them as limited edition art pieces, not a mass market product. This first
design is limited to 100 units.

So far I’ve sold one unit on etsy[2] without any promotion whatsoever. So I’m
hopeful that with a little promotion I’ll be able to sell 2-3 per month. I’m
not really interested in turning this into a large scale business. I already
do that for my day job. My intent with this is to continue to expand my
creative output. It’s also a great excuse to acquire cool tools (aka toys)
that I can teach my kids to use.

Please let me know what you think and feel free to ask questions!

[0] [https://hackaday.com/tag/word-clock/](https://hackaday.com/tag/word-
clock/)

[1] [http://industries.as220.org/the-
wordclock](http://industries.as220.org/the-wordclock)

[2]
[https://www.etsy.com/shop/FineWordclocks](https://www.etsy.com/shop/FineWordclocks)

~~~
sdrothrock
It looks really cool, but just one suggestion -- your homepage has four
example pictures showing "It's eight o'clock" and all of the others are for
"round" numbers of minutes. I'd really be interested in seeing how it handles
something like "11:13" or "11:59," non-round numbers. That would be a lot of
the appeal in something like this for me, I think...

~~~
ithkuil
I noticed that some pictures show the suffixe "ish" right at the bottom right
corner (I think it's a clever trick; wonder if it's boring to basically always
see that word lit up since it's less likely that a time is round)

~~~
matt_the_bass
Thanks for your feedback. That's a valid comment about ish persistence.
However, I haven't noticed that during my own use.

------
jvdh
If you don't want to spend $1400 on a clock, but still want to read time in
words, there's another option. You can build it yourself for about a 20th of
the cost:

[https://bitbucket.org/vdham/wordclock](https://bitbucket.org/vdham/wordclock)

That one's in Dutch, but it's pretty easy to get a stencil in English and
adjust the code.

~~~
Lurkars
Just build my own from scratch as Christmas presents. Saw the orig. Qlocktwo
10 years ago and always thought: the logic is so simple, I build this on my
own. The main problem is a professional looking front plate, but after
discovering online services for cheap lasering a SVG file, I re-thought my
idea. Pro tip: separate every LED, not just the words, because you can use the
LEDs as two letter 8x5 segment display to show temperature or a running text.
Just finished the clocks a few days ago, so project not documented yet, but
will also publish my code, because with the segment letters I added some more
functions than on the usual wordclock tutorials. Project hardware basics: *
Arduino Nano (also tested Wemos D1 mini for implementing a control app via
WLAN sometimes) * DS3231 RTC * LED strip WS2812b

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here. Nice work! My first few clocks were holiday presents as well. I
always like hearing about other people's creative stories. I'm sure the
recipient will love it.

/snark

if they don't, then they don't deserve it!

/end snark

------
jozydapozy
This idea seems to be done before and seems copywrited as well:
[https://qlocktwo.com/en/](https://qlocktwo.com/en/)

~~~
general8bitso
Yeah, how is this not infringement?

Otherwise, we would see $79 mass-produced word clocks at Target.

~~~
lvh
A word clock is a concept that requires patent protection, not a copyrightable
expression.

~~~
matt_the_bass
Lots of people that have seen my work have said "you should patent that!"

I don't see anything that is obviously patentable to my wordclock design or
others that I've seen. IANAL but I do hold 4 patents (and other pending) in
other domains so I have a little bit of experience.

~~~
lvh
Oh, sure: I was just clarifying that copyright doesn't help here. Honestly I
think it'd be a silly patent? But USPTO grants lots of silly patents.

~~~
matt_the_bass
ahh, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

~~~
general8bitso
It may be worth your time to consult with a real intellectual property
attorney, not us HN IP fanboys.

You have alot of time and money involved in this endeavor.

------
phailhaus
I feel like if someone is going to spend $1,400 on a clock, it needs to last
an extremely long time. But the "ish" sounds a bit childish, and I think the
clock would feel a lot more solid and timeless without it. There's a kind of
appeal to a clock that just gives you the general time, a good fit for places
where you want to relax.

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here, thanks for your comment! I may consider trying to develop a new
design that uses a larger lexicon like some of my earlier pieces. I discuss
some of the lexicon here
[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=18953116](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=18953116)

------
mlangenberg
Isn't there an equivalent to DCF77 in the states? It would allow people to
skip the cumbersome WiFi setup.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77)

~~~
tridentlead
See WWVB

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB)

------
thanatos_dem
These look awesome, but I cannot imagine spending $1,400 on a clock...

~~~
bhhaskin
I agree. They look great, but I can't see the bill of materials being above
$200-300. Quite the markup.

~~~
seanp2k2
I get it; I'm guessing that this is a "I value my time at $60 per hour and
each one takes 20 hours to make" type of situation, which unfortunately gets
misunderstood ALL THE TIME in the art world. People will look at a one-of-one
canvas painting and balk at a few thousand dollar price point, when in fact
often times that price works out to under $10/hour for the artist. As a
comparison, home construction rates are typically $90+/hr, and the
craftsmanship that most laborers deliver for that (they're not usually the
ones getting paid that much) is abysmal compared to something like this or
almost all fine art.

Basically, is it worth it TO YOU? I understand the logic behind trying to put
together a BoM in your head, but also consider R&D time, tools (and the wear
on them), time spent sourcing, finishing, final assembly, shipping, building
an eCommerce site to sell these, advertising...there's a ton of cost outside
of just the BoM, as many Kickstarter projects which never ship can attest to.
Makers who have done any kind of mass production tend to understand this sort
of thing, as do those who were able to hand-assemble a dozen of a thing, then
had to scale it to a few thousand (read about electronic conference badges,
for example). [https://medium.com/@Haje/how-a-half-million-dollar-
kickstart...](https://medium.com/@Haje/how-a-half-million-dollar-kickstarter-
project-can-crash-and-burn-5482d7d33ee1) is another account of this.

Finally, it's art. Many luxury products have huge mark-ups of hundreds or
thousands of percent (look up Luxottica for example...they make most of the
plastic sunglasses that sell for >$100). Could YOU make a single one that is
similar for less money? Probably, but that's not what you're paying for here.
Most artists are not crazy greedy capitalists, but the ones who think through
it enough to turn it into a longer-term successful venture tend to price
things according to how much they need to make it worth their time to bother
to produce them.

/rant on behalf of all my artist friends who wish they could do art full-time
but can't because it would never come close to paying the bills

~~~
vntok
> I get it; I'm guessing that this is a "I value my time at $60 per hour and
> each one takes 20 hours to make" type of situation, which unfortunately gets
> misunderstood ALL THE TIME in the art world.

That's a sign that the artist's valuation of their time might be overpriced,
plain and simple. Maybe people disagree with paying a $60/making-hour time
value for a clock that they could build themselves or buy at a fraction of the
listed price.

It is then up to the seller to make their case for why they think the product
warrants a $60/making-hour price.

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here. I would be very pleased if everyone that wanted one of my clocks but
didn't agree with my pricing developed and built their own. I like enabling
people to unleash their creative side and have been involved at AS220.org for
over 20 years (including teaching a workshop on _how to build a wordclock_ ).

I started at AS220 as an "engineer" teaching "artists" how to use tools to
make their art. Overtime, I realized I was also an "artist" making art. Much
of this realization came when people that I considered real artists in my
community started calling my work art. It was a GREAT feeling. I'd love to
have others experience that too!

And yes, I do value my time. I have 2 young kids, a spouse and a dog. Plus
other family and hobbies. So if I'm going to produce art for sale (and most of
my art isn't for sale), it needs to be worth my time. I've even considered if
my pricing is too LOW given the value of things I could spend my time on. I'll
aways be making art for myself and as gifts. Selling it to other is something
I'm trying out for now.

------
jvoorhis
I showed up to learn more about audio engineering.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_clock](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_clock)

~~~
johnr2
You beat me to it. Having used word clocks in audio engineering for many
years, this is a new use of the term for me.

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here. Yup! Me too. I've been playing and recording music for decades before
making these types of word clocks. It bugs me to about the naming overlap.

------
jozydapozy
I once made this on a rainy day:
[https://www.propra.nl/clock/](https://www.propra.nl/clock/) (dutch version:
[https://www.propra.nl/clock/?lang=nl](https://www.propra.nl/clock/?lang=nl))

Nice to run fullscreen or cast to your tv.

------
kaffeemitsahne
To everyone commenting on the price: people regularly pay thousands of dollars
for a wristwatch.

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here. Thank you for your support! I've actually been wondering if my
pricing is too _low_.

------
masonic
Why is "WiFi required"?

~~~
thanatos_dem
Probably to keep the clock sync'd?

~~~
masonic
I'd just hate to see my word clock hacked over the Internet, like so many IoT
devices, and start spelling out obscenities at me... or simply giving me the
wrong time at a critical point.

~~~
AmericanChopper
>or simply giving me the wrong time at a critical point

The use of “ish” tells me this isn’t designed to be a high precision
instrument.

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here. Correct!

One of my earlier designs included the time "It's now" pseudorandomly every
few days. I gave one of those to my father. One night he woke up unable to
sleep, went downstairs, saw the clock and it said "It's now". He laughed as it
was the one time he was actually curious what time it was. :)

~~~
masonic
Wouldn't a GPS or radio chip (like cheap home "atomic" clocks use) be easier?
Some of us choose to not have always-on home WiFi.

~~~
matt_the_bass
I haven’t seen those packaged on board with an MCU. So actually for low
quantity it’s harder and more expensive.

That was where I first looked though.

------
wieghant
It's a cool project and I admire the attempt, however

1) It's been done before, it's not original

2) The cost is outrageous (I see you use more expensive materials, but it's
not $1400 more expensive material)

3) Likely copyright infringement

------
notus
The price on those are insane for the small size, but they are beautiful

~~~
stephen_g
Would you ideally have art priced by weight or by volume?

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here. I loved your comment. Maybe I should think about how to make my
clocks heavier!

------
netsharc
How is this not an ad?

~~~
matt_the_bass
OP here. It's an ad with a story and a Q and A. Just like all the other Show
HNs. Isn't that why Show HNs have a separate section on the site?

