
Lyft’s Logan Green on Building Uber’s ‘Happier’ U.S. Rival - prostoalex
http://www.wsj.com/articles/boss-talk-lyfts-logan-green-on-building-ubers-happier-u-s-rival-1459873960
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bbulkow
I have found exactly that: Lyft drivers are happier.

I had an Uber driver coerce me into rating him a few weeks ago, while I was in
his car. He had a BS reason for wanting the rating now, it was just a ploy to
get 5 stars. He was also insanely talkative. Uber might be a little more
professional, but one is also playing the odds.

Right now, I check Lyft first, and take that if available. Unless I'm in a
downtown area, then I will check an actual taxi app ( flywheel or yotaxi in SF
). If the lyft cars are sparse, I take uber. Just so I can keep mixing it up
and trying different services.

( Flywheel has a terrible new design where they ask you for a "guarenteed tip"
before the car is called. I tried to bail out of that - I don't like tipping
in general, and I really don't like tipping before I can judge the service ),
and I was charged $6 for cancelling. Whoa. No wonder people don't like Taxis.

~~~
hspak
I find that most drivers (that I've had) in SF drive for both Lyft and Uber so
it feels wrong to say Lyft drivers are "happier", but I'm just a single data
point.

~~~
junker101
Since Lyft actually 'supports' the ability for riders to tip their driver, I
would suspect the same person is always happier when their fair is using
Lyft's app.

~~~
fapjacks
Ding ding ding! Free money usually makes people happier than no free money. I
exclusively use Lyft, and talk to my drivers all the time. They also say Lyft
riders are better than Uber riders. Not sure if free money plays into that,
but I guess so.

~~~
adt2bt
I have the same experience in Seattle

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aje404
Forewarning: I don't have WSJ, so I can only really comment on the title and
get a little context from the comments.

I've only used Lyft and Uber in NYC, but I use both frequently (or have; I was
"scammed" by a Lyft driver and had a kafkaesque experience with Lyft's
management trying to resolve the situation, since which I haven't used their
services).

I almost always engage my drivers and try to get to know them. Frankly, I
haven't noticed any difference whatsoever in their "friendliness". Topics
range anyway to US politics, their home countries' politics, to their job, to
their family, to whatever else. Almost all drivers will engage me (assuming
their English is good). The only difference in engagement I've noticed is from
Taxi drivers, who, of course, expect tips, and thus, I don't think there's
much merit to the preconception that "they're nicer to me because they want my
money!". Most people enjoy talking to others; when they're stuck in a car with
someone for a half hour, they just might want to chat about life. I think it's
that simple.

I've asked nearly every driver, with either Lyft or Uber, how they feel about
either company, and they rarely have any complaints (and no, I don't think
they suspect I'm auditing them or anything along those lines). At least in
NYC, bear in mind that the vast majority of these guys are in some combination
of: 1\. Working for both Lyft and Uber (whenever they feel like it) 2\.
Driving as a part time gig 3\. Coming from a Taxi gig, and thus, the grass is
much greener regardless of whether either Lyft or Uber empirically "treats
them better"

Just as well, I really can't imagine that customer treatment varies wildly
between Lyft and Uber. All of these guys have horror stories about customers,
just as us, as passengers, have horror stories about drivers.

So, I think, despite not reading the article, Lyft, via Logan, is likely just
spewing marketing nonsense, and a lot of commenters leaning towards a
particular company might want to rethink the bases for their conceptions.

~~~
qq66
"no, I don't think they suspect I'm auditing them or anything along those
lines"

How can you be sure of this? When you're dependent on an organization for your
paycheck, it's best not to say bad things about that organization, whether you
actively suspect someone of being an auditor or not.

~~~
aje404
The same as I would when conversing with anyone else; it's generally obvious
when someone you're talking to is putting on their political filter, no? I
don't come out and ask things like "has either Uber or Lyft screwed you over?"
(or any other inquiry of that nature), but plenty of peripherals come up in
conversation.

Granted, neither company is a paradise for a would-be driver. I'm sure they
all have their complaints. It's essentially a customer-service position, and
their have been plenty of threads on here discussing the downsides of either
company.

Regardless, again, many of them are content with their job, and the lifestyle
it incurs. Most drivers I've spoken to are animated when talking about setting
their own hours, "being their own boss", and many even are animated in
discussing company politics or current events regarding them. Don't take my
word for it, though, actually talk and get to know your drivers; an abstracted
analysis or a news article isn't the best way to get an impression of the
situation.

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realdlee
I've taken both Lyft and Uber 100's of times over the last few years (mostly
in San Francisco but in other cities too). Both are great services that are
light years better than taxis.

I like that Lyft gives the option to tip. When drivers go above and beyond
what is required or are especially friendly, then it's nice to have the
ability to tip.

~~~
theseatoms
But what are the social norms around Lyft tipping?

Whenever I ride with Lyft, I feel obligated to tip since I assume that drivers
keep a lower cut of the ride revenue.

Is this actually the case?

~~~
pbreit
Nope, the opposite. Lyft's basic take rate is lower. And active Lyft drivers
can have their fees cut in half or even eliminated.

Tipping on Lyft is not awkward. Defaults to 0.00, tip if you want. Driver
doesn't find out immediately.

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rdtsc
I tried both recently and noticed that some drivers also use both. Depending
on time of day, demands, other factor they will alternate between being Lyft
drivers and Uber drivers.

Also noticed Lyft-only drivers are friendlier or just more content. Is it
because they encourage tipping? Some claimed because company treated them
better (those who started working for Uber). One driver switched recounted he
picked up some scary drunk and disrespectful passengers when working for Uber
and he found little recourse by talking to company. So that was the moment he
jumped ship.

~~~
readams
The no tipping thing is one of the best things about Uber. I wish we could get
rid of tipping everywhere.

~~~
dnautics
Why? Tipping in the US is particularly bad because the culture is enshrined by
the IRS which creates a category of labor which devolves into an exploitative
system. It's also usually a one way street which creates a system of
entitlement in the customer class.

But for Lyft: 1) because tips are in-app, they are tracked and the driver
escapes the category (I had to explain this to service employees who were
passengers insisting to tip in cash... I usually tip service industry in
cash).

2) the entitlement factor is not there because the passenger driver churn is
high and it's hard for drivers to remember who tips. Moreover quality ratings
are a two way street because since drivers rate passengers, you're incentivise
not to be a total entitled dick.

~~~
xur17
I agree with the op - to me one of the benefits of Uber is being able to get
out of the car, and just being done - no worrying about paying, or tipping, or
anything. Just charge me a price, and don't make me think about it.

When I have to tip, I have to figure out what is customary - did I tip too
much? Too little?

~~~
toomuchtodo
Are you okay with the cost of the ride going up to remove the need for
tipping? Or are you only okay with not tipping if the ride cost is
artificially low?

~~~
xur17
I'm okay with the cost going up.

------
jcomis
I find most Uber drivers to be very friendly, but if you venture into the
driver forums that are out there it's really a different story. So many
drivers that seem to absolutely _hate_ everything about Uber, the passengers
in particular, but continue to drive. It's weird.

~~~
vkou
It's almost as if their livelihood depends on it...

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homulilly
I exclusively ride Uber because there's no tipping. More honest pricing is
great.

~~~
dnautics
There is really no expectation of tips on Lyft. When I was a driver, only
about 20% of my rides tipped (and I was a 4.9-4.95 driver, though it could be
a race/gender thing) and it's frankly nearly impossible to track who tipped
you or didn't.

~~~
SilasX
Yeah. While I like what Uber is doing about tipping, even with Lyft, the
system is a lot better because I don't have to decide the tip while also
trying to get out and be on my way, or with someone staring at me.

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pbreit
I would love for "happy" to win in this market and would settle for it staying
in the game.

~~~
sokoloff
I care about safe, convenient, and efficient/economical in personal
transportation. All other things being equal, sure I'd like for "happy" to be
part of it, but not at the expense of the first 3 measures.

~~~
ethanbond
Implying that Lyft doesn't accomplish those?

~~~
sokoloff
Not at all. Just implying that "driver happiness" itself is below the fold for
me.

~~~
anateus
I think it's important to recognize that driver happiness is a major component
in ensuring the 3 things you do care about in the long term.

------
ameyamk
Question remains - if this is winner takes all market. If it is - only one
company will survive. As a consumer most important thing for me is to get cab
as quickly and cheaply as possible maintaining the basic standards of
cleanliness, and politeness from service providers. If quality of service is
more or less the same - then I'd argue that the platform generating more
demand and supply in the market will prevail and take on outsize market share
(80%+). if this is true - then only one will prevail.

~~~
TTPrograms
It seems pretty clear that it's not a winner-take-all market. There's, what,
3+ competitors out now that are competing on price and service, and
furthermore the drivers can switch between them more easily than any other
prior form of employment. This means that they're facing strict price
competition for both drivers and riders. The infrastructure required is all
relatively basic software, so costs are relatively low. As you said, all the
customer cares about is "as quickly and cheaply as possible" \- all you need
is new competitor that drops the cut for riders and drivers (+ advertising)
and people will switch. This is exactly Fasten's strategy.

Without fundamental change to the landscape everyone's just going get their
margins eaten in this environment. Uber knows this, so they're trying to own
self-driving vehicle technology to give them an edge over their competitors.
Then they're in competition with the other self-driving technology providers
who might partner with Lyft etc., so that doesn't even put them fully in the
clear even if they can pull it off.

Self-driving technology and how it plays out determines if these companies
actually reach the high valuations, IMO.

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autotune
I had an Uber/Lyft combo driver rant about how the Uber CEO was planning on
replacing them all and advocating for self-driving cars, so there's that:

[http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-
think/transportation/self...](http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-
think/transportation/self-driving/uber-could-be-first-to-test-completely-
driverless-cars-in-public)

------
ndirish1842
I've only taken Uber (Lyft is not available in the city where I go to
university), but I find most of my Uber drivers as extremely friendly. I've
had some very interesting conversations with Uber drivers during my rides, and
they nearly always seem happy to talk.

I wonder if Uber drivers in cities without Lyft are happier because Uber is
the only option.

~~~
dnautics
They're also smaller towns, so the driver demographic is different and
probably skewed towards happy relative to the driver demographic in big
cities.

