
Trolls Are Swarming Young Climate Activists Online - iron0013
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zahrahirji/greta-thunberg-climate-teen-activist-harassment
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throwaway5752
It would be nice if there was some kind of scoring about the probability that
something like this was organic or a coordinated campaign with sockpuppets.

It's also a glaring example of weak points in current law and Twitter
specifically. First, Twitter really needs expand its privacy options. Someone
should be able to publicly share an opinion without allowing anyone to reply
to their timeline or DM them. On the legal point, sending graphic pictures to
underaged girls is a sex crime, and underfunded law enforcement is not keeping
up given physical crimes and multijurisdictional nature. Interpol or a related
entity has to start chasing down criminals that send sexual material to young
people. It is plainly child abuse regardless of politics.

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
>mom of 8-year-old climate activist Havana Chapman-Edwards

Is it just me, or is there something disturbing about an 8 year old activist
for anything? I cannot see anything good coming from turning young children
into activists. Kids that age need love and stability, not the fear that the
world is going to end unless they do something.

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yogthos
So they should just sit there and wait to die is what you're saying?

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daenz
Imagine telling that to your young child every day and then wondering why your
child has anxiety disorders and social problems. Part of being a responsible
parent is _shielding_ your children from the horrors of the world, so that
they can develop in a stable and sane environment.

~~~
authoritarian
It can go the other way as well. My parents were helicopter parents that
thought they were doing their best by shielding me "from the horrors of the
world" and I suffer from related anxiety orders and social problems. I
would've rather been exposed to more and had the ability to form my own
opinions

~~~
daenz
I'm sure we can agree there is middle ground. I don't think instilling in them
that they are just "waiting to die" unless they skip school and march in the
streets counts as that middle ground.

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authoritarian
Yes I agree, going to the extreme in either direction is not healthy

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gatherhunterer
Of course the trolls are wrong for trolling, but trolling is a fact of life on
the web.

When I was a kid I was told to never link any online account with my real
identity and to always regard every person encountered on the web as a
potential bad actor. The article begins with the story of an 11-year-old whose
identity is linked to a public Twitter account.

There is a distinct lack of recognition for the failures in parenting taking
place here. Personal safety and privacy are necessities for a healthy
childhood, a public soapbox is not.

~~~
notus
We should be asking how we can make these better environments for children,
because saying children can't use a public twitter account is not going to
fly. Also attributing it to bad parenting is also a cop-out in my opinion. Not
all of these concerns are immediately visible to parents. If they don't use
twitter themselves they might not be aware of how it can be used.

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sifar
Children shouldn't use twitter.

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notus
but they already do and no amount of saying they shouldn't is going to change
that

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AlexB138
Using children as political tools is disgusting. It's blatantly manipulative.
Throwing them into the cess-pool of public politics and then acting as if
you're shocked they're in a cess-pool, and using that shock to try to score
political points, is one of the more reprehensible tactics in the modern play
book.

~~~
jakobegger
Yeah, kids have no place in politics. They should stay quiet, play minecraft,
impress their parents with fun science projects, but under no circumstances
should they speak out, and anybody amplifying their voice is disgusting and
reprehensible.

~~~
repolfx
It's amazing to me this is actually a debate. The US Constitution forbids
people under 25 from being in Congress because children are not expected to
have reasonable political opinions. They're children! They've never paid tax,
worked or truly made their own decisions or experienced the consequences.

In this case, do you think these children are being presented with any
alternate views at all? Are any of them being presented with the arguments of
climate change skeptics in a neutral forum? Of course not. Most adults are
never presented with these arguments, let alone children. No, they're being
told that for inexplicable reasons the world is filled with evil people who
want everyone to die and they ... _children_ ... must fight them or _the world
will end_! That'd have been like telling 8 year olds in the 1950s they had to
fight communism. There's no way bringing children of that age into things can
ever be a good idea.

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freeplay
Have you considered the possibility that these kids are actually just
passionate about it? And what are these "alternate views" regarding climate
change you mention? There is the truth and there is misinformation perpetuated
by the oil/natural gas/plastic/etc companies and those getting paid by them.

Think about it. When you're a kid, you're not yet jaded by the harsh realities
of the world. That corporations drive everything and we are basically just
along for the ride.

The kids are looking at our dying planet and wondering "why is nobody doing
anything?!?" I often feel the same way. The difference is, I have to go to
work and focus on providing for my family. I also know that no amount of
protesting or public speaking will change the path we are on in any
significant way. Children still believe they can make a difference and I
admire that passion. They are not worried about how old they are because they
are watching the "adults" sit around and argue over even the smallest of
corrective measures (carbon tax).

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repolfx
_Have you considered the possibility that these kids are actually just
passionate about it?_

Yes, but so what? 8 year olds are passionate about eating endless amounts of
ice cream. Doesn't mean that passion should be acted on.

 _There is the truth and there is misinformation perpetuated by the oil
/natural gas/plastic/etc companies_

Plastic companies? That's a new one! I don't think I've heard Big Plastic be
described as staffed by liars before.

You sound like you've never really listened to climate change skeptics. Some
of them make valid points, worrying points about media exaggeration of genuine
science, actual scientific malpractice and the frequency of failed predictions
in the past. You should try it. It may prove mind expanding.

But do you really want to immerse yourself in ambiguity? Or do you want to see
the world as a titanic struggle between good and evil? Children very much want
the latter. Disney movies always depict a purely good hero/purely evil villain
dichotomy because these are stories designed for children who can't/won't
handle anything complex, and additionally in order to teach them a moral code.

When I see the rhetoric around climate science, it often reminds me of Disney
movies. There's Good People like the speaker and then a dark, shadowy
conspiracy of Evil People whose inexplicably malign and self-destructive
motives are never explained ... and who certainly aren't allowed to explain
themselves!

After all, are you the devil you decry?

 _The difference is, I have to go to work and focus on providing for my
family._

Indeed. Or put a bit more harshly, "why is nobody doing anything" has a simple
answer: because people like you have chosen to enjoy the benefits the world
has to offer in its current form, benefits like having a family and a job
that's based further than walking distance.

Children have never had to provide for anyone. How can they understand this
decision, the tradeoffs that go into it? Why should any adults care what they
think about the big issues of the day when they've spent their entire lives in
carefully controlled environments, one in which to disagree with the opinions
of "experts" (teachers) yields swift and immediate punishment? They can't even
start to think for themselves until they're outside that environment, which
for a few could take a couple more decades.

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dyeje
Has anyone tried to do an analysis on these trolls? Who are they and why are
they trolling? I'm concerned that these aren't normal people and instead
people interested in maintaining the status quo are coordinating these
activities.

~~~
Porthos9K
My default assumption is that trolls attacking any sort of "leftist" activist
are either alt-reich channers or corporate astroturfers. I don't assume good
faith on the part of trolls, but instead always suspect an ulterior motive.

~~~
faissaloo
I don't believe they're channers, they're far to numerous and their commenting
style tends towards boomerisms.

~~~
Porthos9K
At this point I no longer care. If we're not mutuals, and you attempt to reach
me on Twitter, you're just wasting your time because I send unsolicited
interaction attempts by non-mutuals to /dev/null.

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nostromo
The media and activists are largely to blame here.

If a child wants to opine on climate change or abortion or whatever, that's
fine. But activists and the media shouldn't push to elevate that child to the
national stage to score political points.

Once you've set yourself up as a political activist, people will respond to
your beliefs, and they won't always be kind.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Excellent. Blame the victim for having an opinion.

People are _not_ responding to their beliefs though - this is straight up
abuse, racism, and crass insults. Presumably as they are _unable_ to engage
with those beliefs at a rational level.

~~~
nostromo
I did not blame the victim. I specifically blamed the many adults and
organizations using her to try and score political points.

~~~
jakelazaroff
I'm not sure why you wouldn't blame the trolls? There are clear antagonists
here.

~~~
cmorgan31
I have no idea either... this train of thought is rampant in this thread and
other forums. Condemn the use of props in politics without a single thought
towards the disgusting behavior of everyone involved who attack children and
their parents. Did everyone forget how every politician takes photo ops with
babies? The token appearances at disasters? Props are not new to politics but
direct harassment of individuals under the age of 18 is thanks to the double-
edged sword of global connectedness.

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jakobegger
And the trolls managed to flag the story off the front page as well :(

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52-6F-62
It's not right, either. The thread had barely started and there seemed to be
some interesting, civil comments among the blatant bait. I hope the mods can
catch it. You can 'vouch' for flagged comments, but not posts, which usually
helps poorly-flagged items.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Aye, it's becoming habitual on some topics.

Hopefully the mods will second-chance it, as despite the oh-so-predictable
trash comments there's an important issue.

~~~
52-6F-62
Agreed. And it seems as relevant as anything to this forum, though on more
philosophical/ethical grounds than technical.

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NeedMoreTea
So many claiming it's adults pulling strings and getting their kids into
politics or activism.

Just one point to make to that: For any kid protesting, or caring about
climate, it's been an issue that's been constantly in the background _their
whole damn life._ Longer than they've been able to read.

Things we've had longer than 18 years: Recycling bins; climate and associated
environmental stories such as species loss on news, documentaries, in schools;
politicians talking about, dismissing and greenwashing climate; climate
related taxes; alternative lightbulbs, insulation and low-energy promotions
from utility companies. [other countries may vary on details, and age of
majority]

How can they possibly _not be_ forming strong opinions, and wanting to do
something?

Remember CND and the peace movements? That was part of the kid's and youth
culture of the sixties - for that generation _that_ was impossible to miss
with the constant Cold War backdrop. This generation gets added trolling and
conspiracy claims of it being adults pulling strings.

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crazynick4
Sad to see. Although, honestly, the parents shouldn't have allowed their kids
to put themselves in these 'activist' positions to begin with. What did they
expect? And also, a 16 year old girl speaking at the UN? Is that a joke?

I fully support protecting the environment but this is child exploitation for
political purposes. These movements should be led by scientists, not children.
Is it any wonder people are still skeptical?

~~~
scarmig
The movement has been led by scientists for decades. They have been ignored.

If it's shameful that a 16 year old is being forced to lead a movement, the
shame is on society and the older generations for not doing anything about
climate change despite manifest urgency.

~~~
buboard
What makes you think that this child abuse is good for the cause? I see a lot
of negative reactions

~~~
faissaloo
Climate change is a much more important issue than what can barely if at all
be termed child abuse.

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buboard
I cant help but think that those girls were selected specifically because they
re underage. That they would attract trolls is an inevitability.

~~~
neogodless
Is the solution to suppress their voices, rather than protect them from trolls
and suppress the voices of the trolls?

~~~
buboard
No just dont amplify them so incredibly much. They are children in the end,
they deserve protection

Trolling is a fundamental right , not being trolled is not

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bjowen
> Trolling is a fundamental right , not being trolled is not

This is hilariously wrong in most jurisdictions, probably including the one
you’re thinking of.

You may be parseing down ‘trolling’ to ‘behaving argumentatively on the
internets’ but this is not the substance of what attacks are being brought
against these young women, who are also minors.

Feel free to double down on “death threats aren’t trolling” and so on, if
you’ve missed the point. UDHR article 12 for further reading.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
It's always illegal to make death threats.

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Porthos9K
Why are children under 13 even being allowed to create social media accounts?

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Facebook and Twitter never, ever restricted them from doing so. You don't need
age verification or ID to sign up.

~~~
CompanionCuuube
Then they should have a reporting option that goes something like "User is
under 13" which requires a verification of parental consent to continue use of
the account, otherwise it's just a blatant violation of COPPA.

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dvtrn
Cults of personality are always strange to behold, no matter who the central
figure is, or what their message is (for good or ill), at least IMO & there's
a lot about the coverage of young Greta that feels very cult of personality-
ish

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thinkingemote
The fact is that these young activists make great stories. The News Media
loves it. It's very good for journalism and publicity. Everyone loves a story.

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petraeus
Kids are simply used these days to deflect any criticism, HOW DARE YOU
CRITICIZE A 16 YR OLD KID

The truth is most of these children are just that, children, they are being
used by capitalistic parents as a walking billboard for whatever agenda or
service is being promoted.

Awareness is great and all but not many people are looking to be more aware,
we are looking for practical solutions, none of which are being offered with
all the attention goes to idolizing a child.

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olliej
Better title:

Adults are bullying children

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thrower123
It would be slightly less hypocritical if some of the same people that are
wringing their hands about people being mean to Greta Thunberg weren't egging
on awfulness against the Covington kids.

I'm not sympathetic to those who are moralizing about trolling this child they
like, when they just put down the torches and pitchforks they had out for a
different child they don't like.

~~~
52-6F-62
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't equate a young person standing up for protecting our
environment and actually making real changes to a young person who decided to
take his trolling public and stare down an elder aboriginal man...

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aldoushuxley001
Sad state of discourse these days. Whatever happened to having civilized
discussions?

~~~
buboard
Are you from the past?

~~~
m4r35n357
We all are.

