
Russia used Facebook ads to exploit divisions over Black Lives Matter, Muslims - rbanffy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/russian-operatives-used-facebook-ads-to-exploit-divisions-over-black-political-activism-and-muslims/2017/09/25/4a011242-a21b-11e7-ade1-76d061d56efa_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.946de0b7f4d4
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VickBear
Main questions and comments that strike me when I see the $100,000 amount is:

With Clinton spending $141.7 million and Trump spending $58.8 million on
advertising, does that miniscule amount even matter?

What was even the CTR with those advertisements?

Is there even anything wrong with any country or person(s) doing that or
trying to do that since we already have Super PACs and lobbyists?

I have more thoughts that aren’t worth writing about (its impact on a person’s
view), but is this Facebook advertising issue blown out of proportion?

~~~
dragonwriter
First, the $100,000 may not be the full spend, it's just the minimum based on
what has been identified as false-flag accounts linked to Russia. There may
well have been orders of magnitude more spending that has not been identified
as false flag accounts (further, it's not even the total expenditure of
resources on the false flag accounts, just the part actually spent buying
placement—when comparing to campaign spending numbers, when all the resources
spent on content development, etc., and not just placement are counted.)

Second, people may discount messages that are official campaign messages
(which have required disclosures to prevent falsifying origin), so there may
be a significant influence multiplier for false-flag “astroturf” spending of
the kind Russia engaged in.

~~~
tynpeddler
The $100,000 may well have been a small fraction of what was actually spent,
but until we have proof the outrage needs to be kept down. We're in real
danger of revisiting yellow journalism and creating an even more polarizing
political situation.

~~~
Harimwakairi
> the outrage needs to be kept down

No. If a foreign power attempted to influence one of my country's elections
for its own gain, I am outraged. The amount of effort or money spent is quite
immaterial to me.

~~~
debacle
You need to step back for a minute. Think about a scenario where Russia
actually did influence our elections. Do you think the response would be this
passive?

All of this Russia talk is a farce. If Russia actually interfered with US
elections, the US response would be awe inspiring.

~~~
mcphage
So what you're saying is: we shouldn't react to this news, because Russia
didn't actually influence our election... and we know Russia didn't actually
influence our election, because we didn't react?

That's... impressively circular.

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nthitz
Seems right out of Foundations of Geopolitics [1].

> Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United
> States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-
> American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into
> internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic,
> social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements –
> extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal
> political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to
> support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics)

~~~
thedevil
Somewhat tangential, but does anyone know why Russia likes the word
"geopolitics" so much? Does it mirror a Russian word with a similar meaning?

In my experience, it's used so much by Russian propaganda sources and so
rarely elsewhere that it serves as a good fingerprint of the Kremlin's
influence. If someone uses it, I know there's a good chance that either
they're Russian (and read Russian news) or that they read/watch RT.

~~~
dgudkov
The interest in geopolitics is deeply imprinted in the Russian mindset from
the Soviet era. Since the dawn of the USSR the Communists always thought in
terms of geopolitics and influence expansion. It constantly translated through
the state propaganda to the masses. Therefore, an average Soviet person would
be more interested in the progress on "helping our friends / fighting our
enemies abroad" rather than in having good schools and roads in his/her local
community. The vast majority of the country were in ruins yet its people were
immensely proud of advances in Korea/Afghanistan/Vietnam/Egypt and whatever
other warzone the USSR was involved at that time. This mindset has
successfully survived the collapse of the USSR and is now widespread in
Putin's Russia. Only this time it's about Georgia/Ukraine/Syria as warzones in
a traditional sense, and US/Europe as cyber-warzones.

~~~
thriftwy
> The vast majority of the country were in ruins

The vast majority of USSR were in ruins? Reality check hello? I see you here
from time to time, every one of them political load >> facts.

That makes you a Soviet person like the one you describe.

~~~
nasredin
> The vast majority of the country were in ruins

He's talking about WWII, probably the single biggest even to shape
Soviet/Russian worldview.

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thriftwy
"yet its people were immensely proud of advances in
Korea/Afghanistan/Vietnam/Egypt and whatever other warzone the USSR was
involved at that time"

Afghanistan was in late 1970-s, I mean come on. Egypt before that but pretty
far from ruins period. One can probably only claim it about Korean War.

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PathToHumble
This started as "Russia hacked the election" and now we are talking about
Russia taking out ads in support of BLM claiming its a psyop? At what point do
people just accept the fact that Trump won a democratic election, racists
voting or not.

The actual campaigns took out billions of $ in ads and campaign ads are never
honest, accurate or logical. Who cares about $100k in Russian ads?

~~~
hackinthebochs
>This started as "Russia hacked the election" and now we are talking about

I guess you missed the news about their attempted and successful intrusions
into state election databases?

~~~
chokolad
> I guess you missed the news about their attempted and successful intrusions
> into state election databases?

I did miss the news where Russians successfully manipulated results in those
databases. Can you provide me some links, please?

~~~
hackinthebochs
No, there hasn't been any hard evidence that records were manipulated (AFAIK).
But I don't see how our response should be substantively different knowing
they altered records vs. just having had access to the databases.

~~~
chokolad
> But I don't see how our response should be substantively different knowing
> they altered records vs. just having had access to the databases.

Well, you claimed that Russians hacked our elections, when there is no hard
evidence they did. I'm not sure why you had to resort to lying.

~~~
hackinthebochs
This is exactly what I said:

>I guess you missed the news about their attempted and successful intrusions
into state election databases?

which is borne out by the evidence.

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patcheudor
This talk (Rage against the weaponized AI propaganda machine) at DEF CON I
attended showed research indicating that it doesn't take much to sway an
election one way or the other - just a couple percentage points and that
tactics which are now being widely reported on do work towards that goal.

[https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2025/DEF%20CON%2025%20pre...](https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2025/DEF%20CON%2025%20presentations/DEFCON-25-Suggy-
Sumner-Rage-Against-The-Weaponized-AI-Propaganda-Machine.pdf)

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Steeeve
Seems like there's a place in the market for a crowd funded campaign that does
the opposite - brings people together.

~~~
pixl97
"Rage porn" is a whole lot easier to sell than happiness. CGP Grey covers it
pretty well in this video

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc)

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thriftwy
My take - the ads were used not to influence opinions but to gauge them.

$100k is too small to seriously influence something, but to measure flamebait
level of various topics via CTR etc, it should be enough.

Also explains why they didn't hide.

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uoaei
This is how they operate, in fact this is the MO of modern propaganda
techniques: divide and conquer.

If we keep the fracas alive by distrusting our neighbors (loudly and
proudly!), this lowers our ability to face threats from outside head-on. We
need trust in our compatriots to do a good job doing whatever it is we want to
do as a collective.

State actors with intent to harm a citizens' coalition only need to sow
distrust and more than a few wrenches will be thrown in the cogs by people who
feel they're doing the right thing protecting their country.

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interfixus
So, one country foisting this unholy mother-monster of all tracking and social
control machines on as much of the world as doesn't actively block it, and
then going all hissy when parts of the world make a bit of competent use.

We are slightly amused.

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mistermann
Sounds like a surprisingly detailed scenario they've been able to reconstruct
based on just $100k of ad spend.

It's funny the Russians didn't funnel the money through US based organizations
to cover their tracks, it's almost like whoever did this _wanted_ to be
discovered. But gosh, why would that be?

~~~
justinzollars
I wonder if the United States under the Obama admin (with Secretary Clinton)
tried to influence Russian elections. Maybe this is some personal score
settling between HRC and Putin.

That said, I support better relations with Russia.

~~~
SEJeff
I'm all for better relations with Russia too, but only if they give Crimea
back. This isn't the 1600s, you can't simply invade a country and make it part
of yours.

~~~
QAPereo
Yeah, now we just wreck up the place and leave... or not.

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mozumder
This just goes to show you how horrible internet advertising is, with it's
complete disregard for standards.

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vixen99
its complete disregard

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amaks
Facebook should be blocked in US as the foreign intelligence agency's actor.

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mythrwy
I find it hard to believe anyone susceptible to having opinions on BLM or
Muslims would be measurably influenced by an ad on facebook.

Maybe that's why they only spent 100K. A similar op by Western intelligence
services would cost what... maybe 10 million? 100K in ads, 9.9 million for
contractors and mid level management bureaucrats.

~~~
Gargoyle
You're downvoted, but this has been exactly my thought all along. The people
who saw these ads weren't going the other way anyway.

~~~
mythrwy
No, no they weren't. Which make the whole drama even more objectively silly.

For the record I have no doubt the Russians do engage in covert activities not
in the best interests of the U.S. But these straw grasping dramas have gotten
tiresome.

~~~
unholythree
I'm not sure. I honestly don't know if the assessment in the article is
correct, but it seems to me the objective of a project like this isn't to
change any minds but harden existing postions and prevent compromise. The
impression I got was that the writer argues the Russian's goal in this
operation was encourage more extreme political views in order to divide the
American people and weaken national unity.

