
Ask HN: Who's making $300k to $1m as a cloud engineer? - sgustard
This article touts a pay range of $300k and up for &quot;cloud computing engineers.&quot; Are you making this much consistently (not just from one-time stock pops), and doing what?<p>http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;03&#x2F;07&#x2F;technology&#x2F;tech-companies-new-and-old-clamor-to-entice-cloud-computing-experts.html<p>&quot;Many of them are the kind of jobs that now pay $300,000 to $1 million a year.&quot;<p>&quot;With five years of experience, $300,000 along with a range of stock or job opportunities...&quot;<p>&quot;LinkedIn or Facebook can offer an engineer with a few years’ experience a package close to $1 million&quot;
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eranation
I have a friend who is a cloud architect at a big-4, he is making a little
more than $300k in total comp in NY (base is lower, a lot of RSUs etc), but he
is more than just an engineer.

He has a friend at another big-4 in NY, also a cloud architect, he is making
$400k

I think that the $1 million package is incorrectly calculated. This is perhaps
the total package for 2-3 years, including signing bonus (vested over a couple
of years) and RSUs (vested over a couple of years)

Annual total compensation for any big-4 Sr software engineer with a lot of
experience in SF I assume is around $300k and can get up to $500k if you are
really good.

I don't know of anyone who is making $1 million a year, even senior directors
at big-4s. Perhaps if you are a Phd who worked at Google cloud / AWS / Azure
for 5 years, wrote their software, talk at cloud conferences, wrote "Cloud
computing for experts" type of books and published a seminal paper on
distributed computing, then perhaps you will get a total compensation nearing
that.

If you are just a cloud architect at a big-4 I think the lower part makes
sense in total comp, the upper bound sounds completely ridiculous. I have
friends who got offers from Amazon and Google for very, very senior cloud
positions, way more than "just a cloud engineer", and the total comp is around
$300-$400. If the stock goes up though, then the RSUs might be worth much
more.

If LinkedIn / Facebook are offering engineers an annual $1 million I'll be
very surprised.

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krschultz
Quick question, who are the "Big-4"? I count Google, Facebook, Apple, Amazon,
and Microsoft at a minimum.

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jordanb
I see "Big 4" on r/cscareerquestions a lot. It seems to have been invented by
that sub as some kind of mythical club of golden programmer employers.

It came from accounting/consulting where there are four really big consulting
giants: (KPMG, Earnst & Young, Pricewaterhouse Coopers, and Deloitte).
Interestingly enough, the above aren't known for being particularly nice
employers.

On the sub the inclusion in the "big four" varies a bit, Google is the only
one who's always in it. Others sometimes included are Microsoft, Facebook,
Twitter, Amazon, and Adobe.

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eecks
I honestly never hear anything about Adobe. MS seems strikingly average and
Twitter seems like a place I wouldn't want to work.

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tsycho
People seem to be getting confused between salary and total comp.

Making 300k+ in total comp is pretty easy at the big Tech companies. Most
level 5 Software Engineers make around that and there are >10 thousand of L5
SWEs at just Google; and I don't think Facebook, Microsoft etc pay any less.
This might change if there is a downturn and these companies stop giving out
significant annual stock refreshers since the base salary part of the 300k is
only about 140-170k. But as of now, the numbers are"normal". To reach the
close to 1 million level, you need to be at least a level 7, and there are
very few of such.

Now salary is a different matter. A 300k+ salary is very rare, and you
probably need to be a director at least to command that. As you rise up the
ranks, salary goes up at a much smaller rate than the annual stock
grants/bonuses.

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thrway127627
The article seems to be using "cloud engineering" to mean what I would call
"data engineering" or "distributed systems engineering". If so then the
numbers they're throwing around seem high but attainable. I would call myself
a "data engineer" (I build ad servers, recommendation engines, etc for
clients) and have been getting offers in the low 300s for full time work with
about five years of experience.

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mavelikara
Does the low 300s number include the value of offered equity, benefits etc? Or
it is just the base salary?

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patio11
I don't know what a particular recruiter told a particular reporter, but in
general, benefits (including benefits with fairly calculable cash value) are
generally not included in numbers in the US but base salary, anticipated
bonus, and present value of restricted stock grants in public companies are
generally fair things to quote at people.

Does $300k sound reasonably achievable for an infrastructure engineer with a
few years experience? Well... yeah, yeah, it does. Literally tens of thousands
of engineers at AppAmaGooFaceSoft have that package.

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ejcx
This might help support the argument I've seen you make tons of time. You can
use h1b data to show real people who don't need to raise their hand on hacker
news and declare their income publicly.

Here's H1b data for Google and Facebook. Lots of people are above the 200k
mark. Lots above 300k with options and RSUs etc, I'll wager a bet.

[http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=google&job=&city=&year=All](http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=google&job=&city=&year=All)

[http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Facebook&job=&city=&year=Al...](http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Facebook&job=&city=&year=All)

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simonebrunozzi
It's a joke.

I can disclose that, in a recent past job as VP in a tech company, I had a
very generous package which was a bit above $0.5M, all included (base,
bonuses, options and RSUs) - then the stock went down (options became worth
nothing, stock lost more than half its value), and the actual annual comp went
down by about $70k-80k.

I am sharing this here to benefit the discussion, please do not make a big
thing out of it.

I know it's a ton of money, but I'm pretty sure that most purely technical
jobs don't surpass 300k-350k. 1M is simply foolish.

Furthermore, if you consider income taxes, and the cost of living in SF, the
number is still high but not as nice as it seems at first.

Netflix, however, consistently pays way more than any other company in the
valley - and yet, it is still an exception.

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smrtinsert
which tech company matters.

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cjbprime
See Dan Luu's post about working for big corps:

[http://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/](http://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/)

He describes a boundary around $250k at "senior", and to get above it you'd
need to become some kind of principal/lead.

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montbonnot
Include about 100K worth of stock in that 300K package, which will vest over 4
years. So your annual salary goes down to 200K + 25K (assuming the value of
the stock doesn't move at all). 225K per year is slightly above what a 5y
standard SWE makes here in the Bay Area working for a big guy. Really nothing
exceptional here... By the way, 225K/y after income tax would be about
140-150K net income per year. Where are these $300K? :)

Also, any key hire like a scientist/data analyst/PhD working in a big company
would easily get $1 million offers from other big companies.

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abofh
It's definitely possible, but typically that sort of package will be long-term
employees at IPO/buy-out with an incentive-to-stay package (You just got 4MM$
from your options, but we'd like you to stick around for a couple of years, so
we'll give you another 4MM package that vests over 5 years).

You won't get that sort of offer at an illiquid startup (except as un-valuable
options) - but it's certainly within the ballpark of reason for people hiring
experienced engineers at highly profitable companies.

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JustSomeNobody
What the heck is a "cloud computing engineer"? Is that some made-up BS like
"customer service engineer"?

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throwaway501101
Total package includes base, stock, bonus. Lower end of that range is
attainable for most. Upper-end is also attainable, either joining prior to the
IPO and holding on to the stock afterwards, or by delivering outsize impact.

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gesman
$300k+ in _total comp_ is quite common but usual picture is a much smaller
base salary + RSU + bonus + [semi-optional] whatever + [sometimes later maybe]
something-else

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erikcw
Could the reporter be extrapolating from a couple of aquihires?

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fosco
can someone find a job posting with this type of pay scale? I am curious what
skills I should develop.

at this point I do not believe this unless you are the lead architect.

for exaple this job posting I cannot see payin more than $165,000 in dc/ny/bay
areas... but maybe my previous exposure to the big four has been limited...
was anyone able to find a job posting that pays this much?

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pliftkl
That payscale isn't for "posted" jobs. That payscale is for "poached" jobs (no
negativity implied by "poached", I just don't have a better phrase). When
companies need someone who is going to cost them $500k a year, they already
know who that person is.

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fosco
does this mean there is an old boys club of cloud engineers that are being
passed around between big companies?

how else could you get an a position to be poached?

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goldenkey
This is a fucking joke guys. Programming is not the career job that will get
you those kind of figures, if it does it sure as fuck will be more of a
management position. Look guys, salaried work will never make you 'rich.'
Believing it will is the same belief that a startup will succeed. You need to
get out of the salary game and work for yourself or do consultantcy if you
want big bucks

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SecConsult
People might not like your comment and have different opinions, but as person
who did exactly what you said and now making around 420k/yr for cyber security
consulting, I have to say, you are 100% right.

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goldenkey
I am already getting downvoted for putting the truth out there. These fools
like the idea that their web development job can turn into a 300k a year
salaried job but its a pipedream. I am not saying those jobs don't exist. But
they usually are anomalies or due to other things like a PhD.

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SecConsult
I would say even with a PhD you can't make 300k/yr for web or any other
development. Top notch developer's salary won't exceed 220k/yr

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solutionyogi
I am really happy that you make 420k but I guarantee you that there are plenty
of developers who make more than 220k. (I make more than that and in my know
plenty of folks personally who make that amount) One easy to way more money
than this is to work in finance space in NYC.

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ptradethrowaway
Indeed, I am 24 year old programmer, 2 years out of a top CS program and I am
making $280k (100% cash) slinging C++ for a small quant hedge fund.

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3pt14159
I know some people at Google and Netflix that make that range. Really solid
technical skills, strong communication skills, consistent productivity, and
strong negotiation and you can get to $400k / year. I haven't heard of more
than that outside of a couple cases (I know a couple high profile women that
earn millions a year, but this is more because there aren't that many publicly
visible women in the tech world) unless they're working for a hedgefund or as
a sales engineer.

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allard
300k is 300000, 300K is 307200, 1m is 0.001, 1M is 1000000

to throw around some figures too.

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stormqloud
A few people that get interviewed by a reporter do not make a trend.

I've heard of _SALES ENGINEERS_ making that kind of money, but not
technicians.

The moment a programmer is working at home remote making $300K per year, the
employer will find some offshore person to do it at 10% of that price.

Reference Disney and the H1B debacle etc.

The only way somebody as a technician is making that much money is the company
they work for hasn;t found a way to get rid of them yet and replace them with
cheaper options.

They can find themselves out of a job very fast at that price range.

Once you do the initial setup and things are stable(documented), they will
kick you to the curb and replace with $50K worker.

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ropiku
It's entirely possible at FB/Google/Apple/etc. They definitely have H1B
employees earning that much and I'm sure they are not looking to outsource
those jobs. They are looking for quality not the cheapest possible price.

~~~
stormqloud
Right up until the time the companies are asked to pay taxes.

Anyone can give out $300K per year jobs when they are global monopolies that
pay no income taxes in any jurisdiction.

These are short term anomalies not structural jobs indicate any kind of long
term trend.

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ropiku
Companies pay profit tax, not income. Since employee compensation is an
expense, the tax rate has nothing to do with it. The employees do pay income
tax, quite a lot of it.

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stormqloud
You are funny.

Clearly you never owned a company before and had to do taxes and accounting.

You better vote for minimum wage increases too!

