
The Power of Positive People - Tomte
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/well/the-power-of-positive-people.html
======
wizardforhire
There’s an easy litmus test to see whether or not someone is worth further
engaging with and it is this. Does the person make your life better or makes
you happy? If people are constantly putting you down or not wanting to listen
to you or are hard to get ahold of, these are all signs that you may have
misplaced atachmments to the relationship and it’s time to get out. Going
through this you may ask yourself what does this other person have going on in
their life? What are you contributing to the relationship that may be of
burden to others and cause them to act this way towards you. Upon addressing
these questions you may then assess what you may need to change in how you
interact with other people if anything or wether or not the other person is in
a position at this stage of their life to to be able to participate in yours.
Having been on both sides of this I’ve found approaching all relationships
with humility and compassion goes a long way towards alleviating any tensions.

~~~
vecinu
> are hard to get ahold of

I have a friend that is like this, he's very difficult to get a hold of
through messaging/e-mail or text. When we're hanging out together, we have a
great time (at least it seems like it from my point of view) but he rarely
makes the effort to seek out things we could do together.

Is that an unhealthy relationship in the sense that I crave his attention/time
more than he does mine? Are some people just more introverted and don't
socialize as much?

~~~
ravenstine
I am probably that guy to a lot of people.

For me, it has nothing to do with social anxiety, disrespect, etc. It's all
about how I value my time differently from others. In my world, there's no
such thing as recreation or relaxation, beyond the occasional Halo game. I do
everything with objectives in mind. I constantly have several thoughts and
ideas floating around in my head that I have to coalesce into coherence,
because one of those ideas might be worth further investigation.

When someone texts me, messages me, emails me, etc., that's a relatively small
interruption but can easily throw everything off in my head when I'm in the
middle of a thread of thought. It's even worse if I am trying to focus on a
specific task at hand. Yeah, I'm a serious person, but I enjoy the way my mind
works and have been much happier by embracing it instead of treating it as a
sickness (like the public school system).

So when I get those handful of messages coming at me every day, I ignore most
of them and reply later, if ever.

I know this hurts people sometimes, and I try to help them understand. Buy
I've given up explaining this over and over again. My ideas and questions
around writing a line encoder are more important than your cat photos or going
out for lunch, or favors for things one can easily take care of on their own.

It's not that I don't love my friends and family, but I can't have their
drivel constantly loop around in my head.

~~~
zasz
Dude, if you love your friends and family, why are you referring to their
attempts to stay in touch as 'drivel'? That's a really negative, condescending
word.

~~~
sneak
Take him at his word; he can love them and their interruptions can still be
drivel. Most normal peoples’ routine text messages are.

~~~
asdffdsa321
Yes and the word drivel is a patronizing word betraying a self-importance that
can lead to neediness/abasement in people that admire you, and a disgust in
people that don't. Putting yourself on a pedastel is a bad practice in my
opinion.

His last line '...I can't have their drivel constantly loop around in my head'
is repulsive.

~~~
idontpost
I'm guessing based on his reference to the public school system treating his
way of thinking like a disease that he's probably somewhere mild on the autism
spectrum, so thinking about social nuances isn't his strong suit.

Assuming that's correct, I don't think its fair to characterize his thinking
as repulsive when its really just a coping mechanism for dealing with his
personal limitations. Its rude, yes, but its not meant to be malicious or
cruel.

~~~
ravenstine
While I'm sure your intentions are good, I'd be careful to make unprofessional
psychological diagnoses over the internet. People should find that more
offensive than my relatively benign choice of words. I'm not offended by what
you have to say, but it's not exactly correct.

To provide some background, I was referring to my being diagnosed with ADD
back in school. I'm unsure whether I even have it since I was a fat loner kid
back in school who was disinterested in being somewhere he was frequently
being harassed. I don't think most grown adults would bother accomplishing
much in an office where some dweeb was regularly sabotaging them. Grown ups
found it easier to drug me than to discipline multiple bullies. I do think
it's possible that I have ADD, but I don't think that's the underlying reason
as to why I was being drugged rather than being put in an environment where I
could thrive. The latter is much harder for an inefficient, dysfunctional
system.

You're wrong in that I do actually think about social nuances a lot. My
lightbulb is a little dim in that area, my second nature being more of a third
nature with those things, but that doesn't mean I'm unaware of them at all. I
acknowledge and understand why some people find me rude, and that's not
evidence of autism.

As you say, I'm not a cruel person. I go out of my way to help friends when
they are in need, to encourage others, to make amends when I know I've done
wrong, etc. I think about other's feelings a lot because I have a lot of
intense feelings myself. Sure, I'm rude, but not usually, and not to be cruel.
I've never used words like "drivel" to someone's face, and usually do my best
to honor people's communications or at least humor them when I'm not exactly
thrilled with what they have to say. But I'm not ashamed to say that when
someone texts me some viral video or whatnot, that it's an interruption not
worthy of a timely response.

Some people ought to grow up, though. The fact that someone is disgusted
because of a person's diction, or that the latter person thinks people say a
lot of irrelevant things, shows a lack of empowerment. A person confident in
themself shouldn't feel such distaste for the relatively minor shortcomings of
others. I'm sure that most people find my interests to be _drivel_ , and I'm
not bothered by that in the slightest.

I do love people, for sure, but I don't require them to love me back, as would
be suggested by me putting on a face and doing things to try keep their love.
I think I require very little from people, and if a person can't handle me or
my choice of words on Hacker News, they're free to move on.

~~~
sethjgore
I understand and I agree. People, especially on internet, as you can see in
the comments above, are so quick to put their conditioning of words and
feelings onto others, in a way where the words you say is not really coming to
them in regard of your own true meaning but rather by their own meaning, their
own codification of language and thinking. They become angry and come to
criticism rather than listening and understanding who you are, as you are.

They react, and think you are an asshole. That tells me they themselves are
not willing to recognize their own cruelty and anger and pain. They are
vulnerable. Rather than merely listening and saying that they are happy to
know you know yourself they say things that make you seem so unknowable to
yourself, since they themselves might, too, not aware of truly who they are.

------
Haul4ss
"You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with" \-- Jim
Rohn.

It's not literally true, but it's a great way of thinking about who you
surround yourself with and the subtle ways they influence you.

I know I tend to pick up aspects of the people I spend a lot of time with.
When we used to visit our family in Queens I'd come back talking like someone
from Queens. When I had a boss who would badmouth the company a lot, I found
myself also having a negative opinion of the company. Cynical friends made me
cynical.

My boss now is a ray of sunshine. Just a delightful and decent human being,
and I am a better person for being around him. I can only hope some of my
positive characteristics rub off on others.

I'm a widower, and one of the ways that loss has changed me is that I am much
more cognizant of, and grateful for, the other familial and platonic
relationships in my life. I wouldn't be getting out of bed every day if not
for my kids, family, friends, colleagues, and neighbors. I am surrounded by
love and support.

I certainly have bad days, but I would not be where I am without the
relationships in my life, and I absolutely believe in the power of those
positive people to have a positive impact on me.

~~~
tpaschalis
> I certainly have bad days, but I would not be where I am without the
> relationships in my life, and I absolutely believe in the power of those
> positive people to have a positive impact on me.

Your first quote is something that stuck with me. And yes, looking back it's
probably true!

Also, you sound like the kind of person that would spread the positivity to
others around them, so keep it up, you're awesome!

~~~
Haul4ss
> Also, you sound like the kind of person that would spread the positivity to
> others around them

Well, I wasn't always, but I'm trying to be now! :)

------
wilsonnb2
> The goal of the quiz is not to dump your less healthy friends, but to
> identify the people in your life who score the highest and to spend more
> time with them.

I really don't like the idea of trying to rank my friends like this. Not
everything in the world needs to be quantified.

~~~
whyGaard
Not everything needs to be quantified, but at the very least this sparks the
intention to be mindful of how you interact with others, and how you allow
them to interact with you.

------
analyst74
The article started with about author's experience hanging out with some
really positive people, and somehow made a conclusion about needing to hang
out more with happy people (happy != positive). Then goes on to describe
various benefits of having close friendships or social circles that you can
depend on, and basically used dependable friend and happy friend
interchangeably.

Although, despite being such a poorly written article, I do agree that having
a group of close friends who you can depend on for good and bad times is huge
for our mental health and happiness.

~~~
jbattle
Yeah - maybe it's just the lingo of "positive" people, or maybe I haven't met
enough "negative" people (lucky!?), but the (happy != positive) angle should
have been explored a little bit.

The best friends in my life are not the same friends that have always been
easy / happy / positive. But it is the people that I've known through tough
times that I rely on now. It's all too easy to step away from people when one
or the other is in a tough spot and this article runs the risk of encouraging
that behavior. By my reading anyhow

~~~
ljm
It's way too easy these days to identify some undesirable behaviour in a
relationship and instantly jump to the conclusion that they must be abusive or
toxic, despite the fact that many people have their ups and downs. Throwing an
abandonment issue or two their way by ditching them at the first tough moment
is hardly going to uplift them, and if you care enough about them maybe what's
needed is some stronger boundaries while that stuff is going on.

You'll never nourish such a deep, loving friendship if you're expecting your
friends to be basically perfect: happy, easy-going, not giving you any
trouble. Going through some tough shit together can really strengthen that
bond and open you up to a kind of positivity and happiness you'll never get
from those who simply wear it as a mask.

------
tabtab
I gravitate toward people who like gallows humor: make fun of the organization
and management. It's "positive" to us, we have a good 'ol time. Human nature
is really F'd up in a Dilbert-esque way in the work world in such a way it
begs to be lampooned. "Positive" is relative.

~~~
barking
One of the most entertaining forums I read is for a perennially under-
performing football club. It's real no holds barred stuff, as much about
themselves as anything else, for wasting their money season after season and
never learning. By contrast forums where the vibe is to 'support the team' are
dull and even oppressive.

~~~
tabtab
Could inspire a book: "The Joy of Sucking"

------
Senderman
fwiw, and this is going to sound incredibly cliché,

One thing I've found is that - people you're in relationships or freindships,
of whatever kind, with - they put out a mix of positivity, negativity,
whatever -

The only way to master the problem of people 'lifting you up' or 'bringing you
down' is to own your own moods, and not ride the whimsy of positivity or
negativity that other people are putting out towards you - then you can see
other people's negativity for what it is - it might be their problems
projected, their interactions with the world gone wrong, who knows - and you
can help them - or choose not to.

There is negativity in the world, not negative people - you can avoid it, even
successfully, but to be comfortable with it and navigate it well - that's a
whole other world.

If you're not in a stable place emotionally, the advice in this article might
apply, and I hope things get better for you.

All I know is I love my friends, including the one's who are hopelsss at being
in any way encouraging. I see it as my problem and my job to be OK with them.
And I think a lot of people share that attitude.

Pardon the rant. The topic got me worked up a bit.

~~~
kome
Very well put, thank you!

There is an underlying utilitarian vision of life in the main article, that
really twist me in the wrong way. Not everything is a market interaction and
real friendship are a bit more complicated than that.

------
laurex
There is plenty of evidence supporting the idea that social connection leads
to better health outcomes, and not just for older people. Modern living,
especially in countries like the US, where many people move, live far away
from each other, depend on social media to satisfy social impulses, and tend
towards individualism and non-communal living, makes it harder to find
meaningful social connection for many people, even urban dwellers, and can't
be ruled out as a contributor to sub-par physical health and mental well-
being.

------
beenBoutIT
The worst thing about so many of these "positive people" is that their
comments are meaningless and their opinions carry no weight. If everyone and
everything everyone's doing is "great", "great" has become synonymous with
"average","typical" and "unremarkable".

~~~
gromy
Yikes! Here are some books I’d recommend for you:

[https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Advantage-Positive-Brain-
Su...](https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Advantage-Positive-Brain-
Success/dp/0307591557/)

[https://www.amazon.com/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-
Tra...](https://www.amazon.com/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-
Transforms/dp/1592408419/)

[https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Be-Disliked-Phenomenon-
Happin...](https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Be-Disliked-Phenomenon-
Happiness/dp/1501197274/)

[https://www.amazon.com/One-Thing-Surprisingly-
Extraordinary-...](https://www.amazon.com/One-Thing-Surprisingly-
Extraordinary-Results/dp/1848549253/)

~~~
beenBoutIT
I don't view myself as a "negative person", although I've been repeatedly
diagnosed as such by "positive people" for pointing out truths that they would
have preferred to ignore indefinitely. At the end-of-the-day, these "positive
people" make up the bulk of humanity and the universe is constantly ridding
itself of them through the natural consequences of their actions.

~~~
crack-the-code
I think you are going about this all the wrong way. You seem to think that
most people who use positive words are just putting up a facade and using
these words for the sake of using them.

Consider the co-worker who acknowledges hard work you do, and appreciates you
for your effort. This acknowledgement gives this you a sense of
accomplishment, which in turn makes you feel happier and better.

Consider the neighbor who offers help when he notices you have a problem with
your car, or gives you advice that helps you solve your problem easier.

Consider the person who recognizes that you have a disability or health
defect, and chooses to help you and provide you with positive reinforcement to
help you focus on progress and feel better about your situation.

I think the article, and the notion of "positive people," is more than just
throwing a word around. It's about people who add weight and meaning to their
words through thoughtful consideration and genuine compassion.

~~~
GoToRO
There will be no progress if the crap you just made is considered "awesome"...

~~~
crack-the-code
Who said that it had to be considered "awesome"? And why dont you educate us
on what qualifies as a mechanism for progress?

~~~
GoToRO
you said it: "most people who use positive words"

I don't educate people that are not ready to be educated!

------
dtran
I enjoyed learning about moais, but the Blue Zone quiz at the end of the
article was a complete non-sequitir for me.

I like the simple litmus test that wizardforhire mentioned
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544755](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544755)).
Another one I like is WaitButWhy's "Traffic Test":

"The Traffic Test is passed when I’m finishing up a hangout with someone and
one of us is driving the other back home or back to their car, and I find
myself rooting for traffic. That’s how much I’m enjoying the time with them."

(from [https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner-
part-2.html](https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner-part-2.html))

------
ta1234567890
Kind of unrelated directly to the article, but in reference to many comments -
can't recommend these two books enough: The Charisma Myth and How to make
friends and influence people (I know, maybe not the best title).

Those two books completely changed my life. They helped me become more
confident, less socially anxious and be able to connect with people in a much
deeper way than I was capable of before.

The first time I tried reading the How to make friends book, I couldn't really
fully make sense of it or enjoy it (in fact I was offended that someone gave
to me as a gift). It took reading the Charisma book and a lot of practice
(yes, just reading these books won't help you, you'll need to put in a lot of
work) to get to the point where the other book was helpful.

~~~
verywoke
Hey as I don't have too much free time would you mind to recommend which book
I should read first?

~~~
ta1234567890
Definitely the Charisma book first. Helps with basic stuff, like dealing with
anxiety and learning to be able to just be present in social situations. After
you've gotten better at those things the How to make friends book becomes a
lot more useful.

------
agumonkey
Slightly related, it's amazing how shared space influences well being. With
people out of sync, it's hard to do anything deeply. In place where everybody
is focused, it gets a lot easier (a library for instance).

~~~
thrav
This works at the more macro level too. Someone was talking about moving to SF
from the Midwest and being amazed by all the fit, beautiful young
professionals walking around. Yes, it’s true that driven, disciplined people
are more likely to be somewhere like SF or NYC, but the subconscious adherence
to your new home’s social norms is a huge factor.

We want to fit in. In a library, that means heads down. In a fit city, that
means being fit. In Texas (my home), that often means lots of beer drinking
and dining out, which leads to not fit.

The power of positive people is the same. If you roll in a cynical circle,
your cynicism will be applauded, and your optimism ridiculed, and you’ll find
yourself altogether more cynical.

Around 22 years old, I realized that location / social circle are two of my
greatest levers for influencing my behavior, and I’ve been extremely careful
about where I’m willing to position myself ever since.

~~~
agumonkey
About the library effect, it was more a distraction-remover and motivational
reminder than a desire to fit. Everyone is concentrated, I'm going back to
concentration. If some were slacking off, I'd be tempted to relax. Also it
favors everything that help your goal. Like the low noise for instance.

------
hashkb
This is an opinion article basing its conclusion on a collection of anecdotes.
I'm not sure it meets the usual standard of "true" or "researched at all". I
wish fewer op-eds got posted to HN.

~~~
_rpd
> I wish fewer op-eds got posted to HN

It's important to know what beliefs are circulating. They can have an impact
regardless of truth value.

~~~
hashkb
There are other communities for that, and, I can read the newspaper itself.
This is Hacker News.

------
shawn
There's a simple hack toward being more positive: When you make a joke, ensure
that you're the victim, not someone else.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngwOuLzQiHE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngwOuLzQiHE)

It's a simple change, but very hard to do consistently.

~~~
Reedx
You don't have to go that far. Consider this insight from Chris Rock, who
said: Joke about what people do, not what they are.

That came up in this discussion where he, Jerry Seinfeld, Ricky Gervais and
Louis CK talk about comedy and their techniques, etc. It's really interesting.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKY6BGcx37k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKY6BGcx37k)

~~~
zackmorris
A slightly off-topic insight I came upon recently was from the civil rights
movement: don't call people racist, because it backs them into a corner they
can't get out of.

It's better to debate them on their choices so they can find their own way
towards a more enlightened and equitable worldview.

I've also come to realize that this may partially explain why conservatives I
know have been reluctant to engage in political discussion in these times.
They're being backed into having to defend fundamentally indefensible
positions.

Rather than forcing them to opt out, maybe it would be more productive to
provide them an avenue out by engaging them in a more positive way. I'm still
trying to figure out what that is, however.

~~~
insickness
I was with you up until this:

> I've also come to realize that this may partially explain why conservatives
> I know have been reluctant to engage in political discussion in these times.
> They're being backed into having to defend fundamentally indefensible
> positions.

Maybe conservatives aren't getting into political discussions with you because
you consider their positions indefensible. Have you ever considered that maybe
conservatives are right about some things or do you monolithically support
everything labeled 'liberal'?

~~~
zackmorris
I'm going to reserve my right to answer here, at least in specifics. There are
so many indefensible things happening to people and the planet (among a great
many other things) right now, that I'm concerned we're slipping past
conservatism into nationalism, authoritarianism and dystopia.

I have liberal leanings but am from the so-called red state of Idaho. I try to
hear out my friends, family and neighbors because their context doesn't always
match mine.

------
User23
This reminds me of the parenting advice that the best thing you can do for a
child is cause them to have a positive peer group. Pretty much everyone knows
this intuitively, which is why "good school districts" and private schools
command such hefty premiums.

------
RickJWagner
True _especially_ of social media.

------
AltVanilla
Jordan Peterson has some good advice on this (not sure if he is liked around
here). "Be Friends With Those Who Want Best For You" and "Be careful who you
share good news with".

Some friends don't want you to try to succeed, because they are not trying.
They would rather see you fail and say "see, that's what happens. That's why i
don't try, as it just fails anyway". Its hard to tell such friends, good news.
It makes them feel bad about themselves.

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
Some interesting talk about Peterson here.
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16188789](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16188789))

I think in general he has some fans here. And those that aren't fans have
pretty rational critiques of his appeal, without just devolving into pure
partisan bias.

Personally I liked his talks on Youtube from Harvard, but didn't enjoy his
book. It was like he was trying to cash in with a "Chicken Soup for The Soul"
knockoff. It's not terrible, but not worthy of a _philosopher_ and too geared
to the mass market.

