
Tesla Adds Titanium Underbody Shield and Aluminum Deflector Plates to Model S - austenallred
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-adds-titanium-underbody-shield-and-aluminum-deflector-plates-model-s
======
zacharycohn
"We believe these changes will also help prevent a fire resulting from an
extremely high speed impact that tears the wheels off the car, like the other
Model S impact fire, which occurred last year in Mexico. This happened after
the vehicle impacted a roundabout at 110 mph, shearing off 15 feet of concrete
curbwall and tearing off the left front wheel, then smashing through an eight
foot tall buttressed concrete wall on the other side of the road and tearing
off the right front wheel, before crashing into a tree. The driver stepped out
and walked away with no permanent injuries and a fire, again limited to the
front section of the vehicle, started several minutes later. The underbody
shields will help prevent a fire even in such a scenario."

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

~~~
cl8ton
Sounds plausible I Guess but I wonder how Tesla in this crash description
circumvented Sir Isaac Newton’s laws of motion and the bodily damage the
driver should have incurred on negative G's.

~~~
InclinedPlane
The longer something takes to slow down the less acceleration it experiences.

------
rkalla
This is what you get when a company/group/effort/community is lead by a
"benevolent dictator" \- someone with an absolutely pure vision of what they
want their output to look like and the autonomy and strength to make it so no
matter what.

I love this... I actually love that it probably pissed off Musk to no end the
amount of attention the fires got and out of spite he went totally over the
top and added ballistic plating to the bottom of the car as a super-
constructive "fuck you" to everyone that bitched about it.

I am picturing this same thing happening at Chrysler or GM and I think 9 out
of 10 CEOs would just let the whole non-issue blow over and go back to
business - and the 1 CEO that would try and push for a ridiculous over-
engineering solution like this would probably get shot down by the board.

That's why I like this, it's going way above and beyond because he can and
because he believes in the vision he is selling so firmly that there is no
wiggle room: "My cars are the best and goddamnit, I'm going to make them the
best."

<standard disclaimers about personal viewpoints and preferences>

Just want to focus on the pursuit of perfection that I find so energizing - to
put another way, if you had someone this passionate running each of the major
airlines, I wonder what air travel would be like instead of the race-to-the-
bottom experience it is now.

~~~
mpg33
> This is what you get when a company/group/effort/community is lead by a
> "benevolent dictator" \- someone with an absolutely pure vision of what they
> want their output to look like and the autonomy and strength to make it so
> no matter what.

Good explanation of Steve Jobs as well IMO

~~~
hahainternet
Unfortunately not. Apple's success was many times _despite_ Jobs. He was
indeed a visionary, but 'benevolent' is the precise wrong term for him.

~~~
function_seven
Well, not to other people, no. "Benevolent" would be the last word I'd choose
to describe him.

But I believe Jobs was "benevolent" to the product itself.

~~~
visakanv
Yup. Benevolent in this case has nothing to do with the person's personal
treatment of others, and everything to do with the person being willing to
serve the company/state rather than herself. The conventional dictators in
failed states simply extract as much value as they can, at the expense of
everyone else. A benevolent dictator uses her power to advance the cause. The
way she does it might be suspect, even unethical or wrong, but there's no
denying that it's to further the cause rather than selfishly extract-and-dump.

~~~
hahainternet
> Yup. Benevolent in this case has nothing to do with the person's personal
> treatment of others, and everything to do with the person being willing to
> serve the company/state rather than herself

Jobs made billions. Your sentence is subsequently nonsense.

~~~
visakanv
Allow me to clarify. The difference between a failed-state dictator and a
benevolent one isn't how much money they have in their banks at the end of it,
but how much they grew their nation/state/company/organization/brand in the
process. I think it's fine for a CEO to be compensated in the billions if he
does it by making his company billions more. It's a question of the
relationship the CEO has with wealth- does she help to create it, or is she
just siphoning it into her pockets?

It's not always clear, but I think it's an important thing to consider. The
size of a CEO's bank account alone is insufficient information for a
meaningful answer.

~~~
hahainternet
> The difference between a failed-state dictator and a benevolent one isn't
> how much money they have in their banks at the end of it, but how much they
> grew their nation/state/company/organization/brand in the process

Are you joking? Is this your serious view of reality? That dictators are fine
as long as they make the country as a whole richer?

~~~
visakanv
I'm not making any normative statements about what is fine and what is not
fine. I don't claim to have such moral authority.

All I'm saying is that different dictators achieve different things. Some
'dictators' enrich their countries, and some 'dictators' impoverish it.
Similarly, some 'democracies' enrich their countries, and some 'democracies'
impoverish them.

That's all I'm saying.

------
sz4kerto
"However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software
update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model
S at highway speeds"

I know this is not specific to Tesla, but it's still really cool. :)

~~~
madeofpalk
Is someone able to explain this more?

"Default ground clearance" means the distance between the ground and underside
of the car, yeah? How are they able to control that with software?

~~~
DEinspanjer
Other responders answered well enough, but I'll add some additional info.

Tesla just started pushing out OTA updates to firmware 5.9 this week. One of
the big improvements in it is bringing back the option to select a low height
mode. When the problems mentioned in the article happened, they pushed out a
rapid update that disabled the automatic low suspension setting entirely.
Frankly, this upset a few of the vocal owners on the teslamotorsclub.com
forums because they understood the risk and felt it was slight enough they
preferred it versus the reduced handling and performance at a higher ride
height.

The re-introduced low height is enhanced to allow the driver to set the speed
at which it will change height. This is satisfying most if not all of those
owners.

Driving a car that gets better as you own it instead of worse is a game
changing model in my opinion.

------
doe88
Why would Elon choose to post on Medium and not on the blog of Tesla? It would
definitively bring more credence to post it on their official website. Until
reading near the end I wasn't sure it was a Tesla employee/official or a third
party story (and I use the term _story_ here and not _article_ on purpose
because usually on Medium it is more _stories_ than _facts_ ).

~~~
whizzkid
Kimbal Musk is CEO of Medium and his brother. I guess that is enough to
explain why :)

~~~
nbouscal
You're thinking of Me.dium, which turned into OneRiot and was then acquired by
WalmartLabs. No relationship with Ev Williams's Medium. Also, Kimbal is on
Tesla's board, so it's not just a family relationship.

------
utefan001
Almost got the wording perfect! (under shield vs underbody shield)

1 point by utefan001 175 days ago | link

I am sure it is easier said than done, but it seems like the batteries simply
need to be better protected. Something like a carbon fiber or titanium under
shield.

~~~
freehunter
Wouldn't carbon fiber shatter in an impact though? It's light, but it doesn't
seem like a good material for a skid plate.

------
squigs25
It's really difficult to emphasize how excessive this is. As a mechanical
engineer, I knew just by reading the title that this is really excessive,
because the titanium alloy used is definitely a marketing stunt.

Titanium has unbelievable tensile strength for its weight, but there's no good
reason to make an "underbody shield" out of titanium except for publicity. It
would make way more sense to use steel (and maybe you could make a case for
something ultra light weight, like carbon fiber, but probably not).

~~~
johnward
" the shields prevented any damage that could cause a fire or penetrate the
existing quarter inch of ballistic grade aluminum armor plate that already
protects the battery pack"

Ballistic grade aluminum armor plate... If there is one thing Tesla does well
it is publicity. I know there are high strength steels but it seems like they
want something that is strong and light. If it sounds like something
impenetrable to the average customer that's even better for Tesla.

~~~
dingaling
> Ballistic grade aluminum armor plate...

That's from the same marketing phrase-book as 'aircraft-grade aluminium'.

Lightweight armour ( e.g. personal protection ) uses ceramic plates.

Heavy armour ( e.g. tanks ) still uses steel alloys with composite and plastic
layers. There were a few AFVs with aluminium armour, such as the M113 and
Sheridan, but ballistic protection was restricted to small-arms and light
shrapnel. A Sheridan could be ripped apart by a 12.7mm DhSK.

~~~
wooster
A quick Google search indicates that it's used commonly in armored cars and
military vehicles.

eg:
[http://www.alcoa.com/global/en/products/product.asp?prod_id=...](http://www.alcoa.com/global/en/products/product.asp?prod_id=4307)

------
JohnBooty
In a sense, Teslas are the _least_ safe cars on the road, because I'd kill
every single one of you in order to own one.

~~~
johnward
I would really love to drive a Model S. I'm not sure if all of the
Californians on HN realize how special CA is for seeing awesome cars. I saw
cars that I never thought I would see in person (in my lifetime) when I was in
CA. Not only that but you would see them a handful at a time. I know of 4-5
Model S' in the Pittsburgh area but rarely see exotics.

~~~
bjeanes
[http://getaround.com/ModelS](http://getaround.com/ModelS)

I've driven it 3 times now and plan to do so again. $25/hour makes for a
really fun weekend outing.

~~~
johnward
That site basically works for CA and Chicago. This just proves my point about
CA having awesome cars everywhere. You can rent a Model S for $25!

------
jusben1369
"An ode to passive/aggressive and hyper defensive writing"

Did this remind anyone else of when the smartest kid in the room was forced to
apologize for something and you got the classic non apology apology?

Keep building great cars Elon and changing the world. Understand that we
understand that there will be (I almost said bumps in the road) and that no
one expected you to be perfect in every way from the very beginning. Trust
someone close to you to help write these things.

"When you're doing something as new as we are with Tesla you're going to draw
an outsized amount of scrutiny. Even though these fires were both in extreme
circumstances, and that fires are sadly a regular occurrence for all vehicle
makers, as a brand new concept it's not good enough for us to say 'We're as
safe as any other comparable high end vehicle' We have to go a step further.
And so today I'm announcing......" I mean I'm just throwing something together
quickly but I'm trying to put some substance here vs sounding randomly snarky.

~~~
nknighthb
I'd be pretty damn actively aggressive if someone was trying to make me
apologize for manufacturing a car that kept its occupant safe in a 110mph
crash.

~~~
jusben1369
I think that's how he feels. And yet they've decided to add the titanium
plate. Which is why maybe someone else should (help) write these.

~~~
nknighthb
Who? A PR drone who would say much while communicating nothing, and do so in
the most boring, robotic manner possible?

Normal people don't spend their time thinking about how much more they would
like it if an executive's statements conformed to the PR industry's self-
serving standards.

------
Theodores
People want to test this car to extremes, it is as if they are subjecting it
it the coding equivalent of DDOS attack with some sql injection payload of a
Stuxnet virus. Let's see what else the media find wrong with this car, e.g.:

 _' After flying into a cloud of paint and superglue the windscreen wipers
failed to work resulting in a dangerous collision'._

(As if that happens every day and as if any other car would do better.)

If the naysayers keep up their petulant trolling then this car will be good
for a road trip in Afghanistan some time soon.

------
pistle
Elon is revealing too much hubris in his messaging. You can treat people
around you like that, but lining up too many people against you is foolish.

His intent is to PR+burnish the added safety feature. Instead of selling it as
an objective demonstration of the leadership tact that Tesla takes in ensuring
driver security, he gets passive-aggressive.

Instead of laying out a tremendous history of safety as a foundation for a
vision of the future of driving, he lords it as an accomplished achievement...
which means the first time someone gets stuck inside the car and is burned
alive, all these statements will bite him in the ass. It doesn't matter if
that happened 100 times in gas cars the same year. Those manufacturers weren't
overselling it.

In aggressively projecting strength, it expresses weakness.

~~~
andrewtbham
tesla is weak. they are a huge underdog against the other car companies. they
are david versus goliath. they are being cocky. that's what the small dog does
:-)

there is a risk of a bad accident that could be bad pr. that risk exists with
or without the arrogance. elon musk has a high tolerance for calculated risk.
that's why he's a billionaire and you and i are 2nd guessing him on hacker
news.

~~~
larrys
"elon musk has a high tolerance for calculated risk"

And perhaps he will be the survivor that is referred to when stories about
survivorship bias are passed around. Or maybe he will crash and burn with that
calculated risk.

"that's why he's a billionaire and you and i are 2nd guessing him on hacker
news."

There are billionaires (or close to it) on hacker news btw.

Of course if one of those "billionaires" went out and said something like that
that wouldn't go over to well would it?

Would you like a commenter on HN to say something like "well that's why you
are driving a used Yugo and I am driving a brand new Lamborghini that I paid
cash for?" as justification for why they know something or are somehow better
than you are?

------
pocketstar
On the website: "Welcome! We noticed that you are in Canada . Would you like
to view the Canadian version of the site? Visit the Canadian Site" as a small
unobtrusive banner along the bottom of the screen that disappears if I
continue to scroll through the article. This is the BEST implementation of
this geothing I have ever seen. Especially compared to Newegg's massive grey
screen banner that asks me every fucking time and never remembers my answer.

------
rikf
The biggest take away from that article for me is that they are offering the
fix for free to current owners. How many other car companies would do that?
Unless they where required to by law which is clearly not the case here.

------
andrewtbham
The risk of fire from collision was significantly higher that from
conventional ICE. The figures Elon used included fires from electrical and
mechanical failures, and even arson. Raising the car mitigated the risks in
the short term. This is a long term solution. Kudos.

Here is full statistical analysis of why it was a real problem.

[http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24190-Discussi...](http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24190-Discussion-
of-statistical-analysis-of-vehicle-fires-as-it-relates-to-
Model-S?p=503252&viewfull=1#post503252)

------
chromaton
The post doesn't mention the titanium alloy or thickness of the shield, both
of which make a significant difference. Pure titanium (Grade 2) isn't
especially strong compared to aluminum or steel, but it is less expensive.
Heat treated 6Al-4V alloy, AKA Grade 5 on the other hand, is the stuff used in
military aircraft and the like.

------
crusso
"This happened after the vehicle impacted a roundabout at 110 mph"

My pity meter regarding the resulting vehicle fire doesn't seem to be moving.

~~~
pistle
Let me send you an over the air update to your geek control unit. You're
supposed to be cackling with joy along with Elon.

------
eumenides1
Dear Internet, please make a tumblr of Tesla car gifs running over things.
Thanks!

------
userbinator
Very, _very_ good idea.

Personally I think the ground clearance is still a bit on the low side.

It looks like it lost a bolt or something in the first impact image... oops.

~~~
smoyer
I noticed that too but can't tell whether it's a plastic "rivet". If you look
at the plastic fairings on your car, you'll see that many are held to the body
with a snap-fit plastic connector. These are also used as blind fittings on
many interior panels (such as door panels). They break and detach often enough
that my local hardware store carries the more common ones.

~~~
a1k0n
Definitely a plastic rivet. It's too pointy to be a bolt, and you can see the
thin 'head' separated from the flange which releases it.

~~~
DEinspanjer
Yep, I can confirm, there are hundreds of those throughout the car to connect
pieces that are either cosmetic or not tied to the safety or performance of
the car. For instance, the plastic shell inside the frunk is connected to the
car with them.

------
symmetricsaurus
"With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our
vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road
than a Tesla."

I don't doubt that the Tesla Model S is a very safe car as tests have shown.
With that said, how many deaths and serious injuries would have been expected
considering the same number of miles driven with normal cars? Are Teslas
actually substantially safer than other cars or are there just few enough out
there that no serious injuries have happened?

~~~
veidr
Yes, they actually are in the 99th percentile of safety among all cars ever
tested in the USA (per the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). So
it's not just that most ppl 2 po'.

~~~
symmetricsaurus
What I actually want to know is if you had the same number of other average
cars driving the same distance as the Teslas, how many people could you expect
to be killed in these cars.

Here is my crude estimation. If we consider that there are 3.2 * 10^-4 people
killed in traffic per car per year[1] and that there are 20000 Tesla Model S
on the road[2], then we get that there should have been about 6 deaths.

Now most of the Teslas have not been on the road for a whole year probably so
I'm not sure how valid this estimation is.

This seems to be some indication that zero deaths is very low for this number
of cars but to be sure I think one would need to make a more detailed
estimate. Doing some statistical analysis would also be good.

[1]
[https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=traffic+deaths+per+car...](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=traffic+deaths+per+car+in+the+us)
[2][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S)

~~~
revelation
Thats a terrible metric if you consider that some cars cost more to insure not
because of the vehicle or make but simply because of the kind of people that
tend to drive it.

~~~
symmetricsaurus
Of course, that's why I said it was a crude estimate.

On the other hand, since the Tesla S is a quite high performance car, you
could expect it to get into more accidents than the average car.

------
martin_bech
Always impressed in the companys ability to push things further. They will do
to some of the current manufactures what Apple did to Blackberry and Nokia.

~~~
Gustomaximus
I kinda feel Nokia self destructed more than it was destroyed by Apple. It was
a sad journey to watch right up the the sale. But reminds me I should see
what's the latest with Sailfish and Ubuntu Touch.

------
kordless
As soon as I have funds to do so, I'm buying a Tesla Model S. I'm amazed at
the dedication to the process of building a superior product.

------
tschlossmacher
You know what I love about Tesla? They continue to innovate and create change
in the auto industry, most of all as a company they are powered by
transparency.

Similar to other luxury auto companies they facilitate innovation. While
luxury car companies strive to create beautiful, seamless and future-forward
vehicles at a high cost, they can afford (similar to startups) to bring in new
ideas to not only rule out competition but give them a market advantage. For
example - recently McLaren came up with a way to introduce sound waves,
instead of windshield wipers, wipers are a pain! (Not to say that the device
generating the waves wouldn't be) Can you imagine toyota, chrysler, or ford
doing something of the sort? Of Course not - it takes probably 20 hours for
them to build one of theirs, where it might take Rolls Royce 6-7 months.
However there are different profit margins and reputable name sake.

I like to think Elon has engineered his company nicely in between :), he
surely got pissed off by the media and had fun adding that ballistic plate to
the bottom

------
harichinnan
I just had a thought that Elon Musk owning both Tesla and SpaceX, the next
logical step would be an electric powered airplane or a chopper. It could be
an airplane/chopper that would glide down to safety in case of a mechanical
failure, or crash land on rough terrain without fear of catching fire. That
would disrupt aviation industry like never before.

~~~
Already__Taken
Musk has spoken about electric aircraft. It's inevitable and just a question
of batteries.

------
pc86
> _we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase
> the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds_

Let's just think about how awesome that is for a moment.

~~~
marcamillion
I was just about to write this....it's like Gran Turismo in real life!

This is one of those moments when we need to just stop, take a breath, and
realize how truly epic and breakthrough this is.

Especially as someone that lives in a developing country...where the vast
majority of the cars on the road are at least 10-years old....this is just
mind-blowingly-awesome!

------
po
_However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software
update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model
S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody
impact._

This is the most crazy thing about the press release and I feel like it went
largely unnoticed. Not that it is a bad thing at all but it really illustrates
that we're totally living in a different world than what I grew up with. Cars
are now largely defined by software.

------
ghshephard
Are there any other car manufacturers that have similar levels of clearance?
I'd be intrigued to see how they perform in the same test scenarios that the
Teslas were run against.

~~~
vermontdevil
The problem is the expectations for other car manufacturers are much lower in
terms of safety. So these companies do not try to push the safety envelope any
higher.

The exception would be Volvo.

~~~
johnward
Yep. Imagine there are plenty of gasoline cars that have the potential for the
gas tank to be punctured, and well that seems like it could turn out much
worse. The problem is that electric vehicles are scrutinized to the point that
Tesla actually has to defend the one of chance that something punctures the
battery pack. A lot of gas tanks are visible under a car with a thin layer of
steel protecting them. The straps holding the tank in my Ford truck rusted
through. I had the optional off road package that includes a skid plat for the
gas tank. Without that plate it certainly would have dropped and I can only
guess what might happen. However, that recall got nowhere near the media
coverage Tesla gets for anything.

GM left bad ignition switches in the cobalt for something like 8 years. People
died when the switched locked up.

~~~
DEinspanjer
Actually, in the particular case of an object such as the trailer hitch that
can easily pike into the body of the car when struck, it is less likely that
it would damage the fuel tank of an ICE than the battery compartment of the
Model S because the gas tank on an ICE is at the rear, and the object would
likely pike well before getting all the way back there. Since the battery of
the Model S extends all the way to the front axle, there is a greater risk.

All that said, there is still the risk of the object striking some critical
component in the engine of an ICE which is typically in the front. And the
strike could easily damage something like a fuel line which could possibly
start a fire.

------
malandrew

        "However, to improve things further, we provided an over-
        the-air software update a few months ago to increase the 
        default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, 
        substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody 
        impact."
    

How can a software update impact ground clearance at highway speeds? Is this
some special capability of the suspension in a Tesla or are more cars capable
of this type of adjustment?

~~~
msandford
The ground clearance is controlled in software. I'm not sure if it's pneumatic
or something else, but it's definitely under the control of some computer
system somewhere in the car.

------
adamrneary
Cause and effect: A statistically insignificant number of fires in Teslas
caused a disproportionate amount of news coverage (there was much less news
coverage about Tesla's best-ever safety rating). This perception needs to be
overcome, even if it means informed consumers having to pay for titanium
underneath otherwise safe cars. Tesla is doing their part, but it's a shame to
see so many outside factors driving up the cost.

~~~
cpwright
I worry about the effects of this overdoing it on the eventual Gen 3 vehicle.
Clearly, at least in general a luxury vehicle that costs $70-100K is going to
have more wizbang safety features than a $35K mid-range car. However, if Tesla
is advocating this shielding to make electric batteries less likely to catch
on fire, and then the Gen 3 skimps on electric-specific safety features they
could definitely get PR flak for it. On the other hand, if they want to
maintain this super-safe image, it is going to push the price up (and my guess
the timeout out) for the more general appeal vehicle.

I'm hoping that my current vehicle lasts just long enough (both in terms of
mechanically, and my patience with it getting older) for Tesla to come out
with something in my price range.

------
arikrak
Nice move on their part. I think while the Tesla may be less fire-prone than
other cars, Musk exaggerates it:

"The odds of fire in a Model S, at roughly 1 in 8,000 vehicles, are five times
lower than those of an average gasoline car..."

What matters is the miles driven by cars, not the number of cars on the roads.
It seems likely that other cars are driven longer distances, and Tesla cars
are probably used by many owners as a second car.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Exaggeration, perhaps, but the majority of collisions occur on local roads
rather than on highways, and as you say, the Tesla is more likely to be used
locally than on long highway trips, hence more exposed to drunks running stop
signs and so forth.

~~~
SeanLuke
None of which has anything to do with vehicle fires, which is the topic at
hand.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Vehicle fires are a potential result of collisions, no? They don't just occur
spontaneously.

~~~
SeanLuke
Sure they do. Vehicle fires occur spontaneously, due to sabotage (the most
common reason), due to various acts of god, due to road debris, and due to
collisions.

Anyway, two of the three Tesla fires were on freeways, not local roads. The
third was under somewhat mysterious circumstances (Mexico).

------
001sky
Kudos for an engineering led solution. I have no idea what "ballistics grade
aluminum" is (since nobody uses ALU for ballistics armour##), but Ti has more
inherent toughness# and seems a better fit as a skid-plate.

# elongation and tensile strength.

## The ballistic standard for armour (RHA) is a 1/4 steel plate. Ballistic Alu
is roughly 1/2 inch or double the thickness used here, in most applications.

~~~
Retric
Think tanks not people. Aluminum is far cheaper than what you would put in
armor vests but still light and strong. Ceramics are arguably better overall,
but combining the two is a net win. Anyway, ballistic grade aluminum actually
does refer to something and is probably better for cars which don't have to
deal with anti tank rounds.

EX: [http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-
plate.html](http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html)

~~~
001sky
Yeah, I hear you but 1/4 inch is not bulletproof. Its like saying "ballistics
grade sand". Which in sufficient thicknesses, is bulletproof =D.

 _" MIL-DTL-46027 is supplied as a 5083-H131 product. Ballistic reports are
supplied for thicknesses over 0.499" per specification. Our stock range is
0.250" thru 3". Typical stock size is 72" wide x 144" long."_

Similar qualification for

MIL-DTL-46063 REV H OR LATEST

[http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-
plate.html](http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html)

~~~
001sky
For more reference on mil-spec ballistic tests, see

[http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a481408.pdf](http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a481408.pdf)

Section 4, figure 4 (p.7)

------
mkhalil
Tesla will need to continue to fight this PR with the truth and improvements
like this; for the big 3, the oil companies, and dealership organizations will
continue to try to put them down.

They need us to help spread the truth, as much as we need significant
improvements in the automotive/transportation industry.

------
olssy
Did anyone else notice a screw coming detached from the titanium underbody
shield after the impact of the three ball tow hitch, you can also see the
shield bend on the impact of the concrete block and the hole where the screw
was. It would be kind of ironic if this actually made the car less safe.

~~~
jccooper
Plastic rivet, used to hold other plastic pieces to the underside of the car.
Probably in this case it's holding on a plastic splash/aero shield, which is
what bent. No big deal.

Damn things fall off all the time. Go look under yours, I bet you're missing a
few. And you haven't crushed any alternators in the process.

I was actually pretty disappointed to see that--because I hate those things. I
guess it was too much to believe that Tesla wouldn't have any of those damned
plastic clips. I guess once I get my (rather unlikely) Model S I'll still have
a reason to go to AutoZone.

------
sgy
There's another side for the story.. Car Dealers Could be “Napsterized”

[http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2014/03/24/tesla-raises-fears-
that-...](http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2014/03/24/tesla-raises-fears-that-car-
dealers-could-be-napsterized/)

------
srg0
Assuming the underbody plate is only 2mm thick, the Model S is suddenly
accelerating 5% slower. To put it otherwise, every acceleration now takes at
least 4% more energy (> 0.01 kWh for an acceleration from from 0 to 65 mph).
Sounds great for city driving.

~~~
deletes
Can we see your calculation and reasoning or did you make the numbers up?

~~~
srg0
Footprint is 2×5 m. Sheet volume is 2×5×0.002 = 0.02 m³. Titanium density is
4507 kg/m³. That gives 90 kg. Without the aluminium deflector.

Normal Tesla Model S curb weight is 2108 kg according to Wikipedia. Extra 90
kg is 4.2% mass increase => 4.2% more kinetic energy at the same speed => more
energy consumption to accelerate. It also means, that the same force applied
to the heavier Model S will accelerate it slower (a = F/m).

~~~
deletes
I appreciate the response.

I'm still skeptical about the actual energy usage. If the % more kinetic
energy applies equally to battery energy usage.

------
trekky1700
"However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software
update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model
S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody
impact."

That is just so cool.

------
vive
Definitely the amount of effort Tesla is devoting to ensure the safety of
passengers is highly appreciated. I was awaiting for their Cars to be launched
in my country. Definitely I would buy one :) Keep rocking Tesla!

------
curiousDog
An OTA update to increase the ground clearance at highway speeds. Wow. Just
wow. I for one welcome the future and please give this man all the money he
wants.

------
hyp0
love Musk's posts, esp "peace of mind", free retrofit, and that amazing crash
that was walked away from.

but although there's "ballistic" grade alumimium, titanium that's usually
found in "military" applications, and the steel "spear" braced in asphalt
test, will it survive assault rifle fire? or anti-tank weapons? how about a
tactical nuclear strike? i mean, is it _really_ safe?

~~~
lispylol
Yeah I can already see the headlines.

> "Model S catches fire due to direct impact from nuclear missile".

Media goes apeshit and Musk responds by equipping Model S with anti-missile
defense system.

------
nathanvanfleet
"In short, if you ever run over a human head the car is designed to complete
decimate it and break it into several pieces." Wow that's harsh.

------
fidotron
I'm guessing the actual titanium shield is relatively small, but either way I
hope it's welded to the car well, as that stuff is valuable.

~~~
colechristensen
Titanium is more expensive than it is valuable. Most of the high cost of
titanium products comes from the relatively very expensive purification
process and difficulty machining.

~~~
kristofferR
"is more expensive than it is valuable" does not makes sense, since the value
of something is what people are willing to pay for it. If it is expensive then
it has a high value.

~~~
mnw21cam
Not so. Expensive - how much it costs to make it. Valuable - how much someone
else would pay for it.

So, if I was to spent loads on parts to make a relatively useless widget that
fills a particular niche in my daily life, it would be expensive, but I
wouldn't view it as valuable. It's only as valuable as it is expensive if
there are lots of people who want it, which is not the case for custom work.

~~~
njharman
To expand further with example; a titanium under plate may cost $2000 to
install(amort design, testing, manufacturing, etc.). But unless you happen to
own a Telsa with a missing under plate it's value is less than $100 as scrap
recycling.

------
trhway
until somebody drives Model S in Iraq and hits IED ...

------
jlebrech
sounds more like a tank

------
leccine
Long live Tesla and Elon Musk! People like him are the hope of humanity that
we actually going forward (rather slowly but hey)...

------
notastartup
Elon Musk is the heartthrob of our generation, producing electric cars, space
rockets, wish I was as successful.

------
bsdetector
Curious that it doesn't mention battery swaps. Since this is a PR piece I'm
assuming from lack of mention that you can no longer swap batteries after
having the extra battery shield added.

Battery swap was always a gimmick -- you had to return to the same swap
station later to get your same battery back or pay a huge fee. Come on.

It looks like they decided fires are worse PR than this gimmick is good PR.

~~~
pistle
Stop. You're harshing my myopautopia with all your fact checking. Please
reaquire a position within the jerculus circulus.

------
kzahel
"With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our
vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road
than a Tesla."

I recall one Tesla caused death[1], and I'm sure there have been more. Not
that I really think Tesla is any more dangerous than any other car in this
regard though.

[1] [http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2014/02/07/tesla-driver-
blames...](http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2014/02/07/tesla-driver-blames-fatal-
crash-on-new-car-smell/)

~~~
damon_c
Just checking... did you read that article? It says the car's "new car smell"
caused the driver to suddenly fall asleep and kill a cyclist.

Not sure if the car was actually at fault there...

~~~
empoman
It actually says that the driver claimed that it was the reason.

"He told officers that the car had a strong, new-car smell that prompted him
to use a baking soda car freshener in it. Jain told authorities that the smell
caused him to fall asleep and there were no mechanical problems with the
car..."

But you're probably correct that the car was not at fault, the driver was
probably just grasping for straws.

------
eiji
I'm sorry but my first reaction is "What a waste". Titanium is ridiculously
expensive for various reasons. The best these engineers could come up with is
to put a sheet of metal under the car? You got to be kidding me. I see why
they have to use Titanium for it, anything else doesn't work, but it shows how
far away this car is from reality and from true mass production.

~~~
Theodores
My feelings too. However, as much as I like steel, I find it incredible that
most cars use very heavy materials, e.g. steel, instead of aluminium, plastic,
carbon fibre and titanium. Such materials are common on bicycles and planes.

Moving a tonne or two of steel around is a real waste, particularly when it
rusts. At least with this wondercar the bottom is flat and aerodynamically
sound, unlike all of those legacy vehicles out there.

~~~
johnward
Well, it's not like they can just redesign the entire platform at this point.
Slapping some titanium on is probably the best move they can make right now.
It should satisfy any government and customer concerns for a problem that was
pretty rare to begin with.

As for the other materials we've been using them sparingly in vehicles. The
new Ford F150 is using much more aluminum, enough to bring the weight down by
about 900 pounds. Yet people are still criticizing aluminum as a material
choice. It's not hard to see that aluminum, carbon fiber and other light
weight materials are the future of vehicles. Yet some people are still afraid
because they associate heavy steal with strength. That aluminum hood is the
only part on my old truck that is not rusting through. Lighters, stronger, no
rust. Where is the negative?

~~~
swimfar
I think the concerns of the aluminum body panels on the new F-150 is specific
to this segment (trucks). Utility vehicles are expected to take more abuse.
Getting hit with tools/logs/ladders/etc. isn't uncommon and people are afraid
their truck will look like a golf ball after a year.

The main drawback of aluminum body panels is that it's difficult (i.e.
expensive) to make them. I would imaging fatigue (from vibrations, for
example) is also a larger problem in this application with aluminum than it is
with steel.

Citation on difficulties of fabrication (introduction paragraphs):
[http://www.thefabricator.com/article/stamping/warm-
forming-o...](http://www.thefabricator.com/article/stamping/warm-forming-of-
alloys-in-the-auto-industry)

Additional considerations when designing dies for aluminum forming:
[http://www.schulergroup.com/major/us/technologien/produkte/a...](http://www.schulergroup.com/major/us/technologien/produkte/aluminiumverarbeitung_systemanforderung_werkzeug/index.html)

A list of some cars using aluminum body panels:
[http://www.paintgages.com/List-of-Car-Manufacturers-who-
use-...](http://www.paintgages.com/List-of-Car-Manufacturers-who-use-Aluminum-
Body-Panels-s/51.htm)

~~~
lotsofmangos
Land-Rover have been using aluminium body panels since 1948, and they can deal
with untold amounts of abuse and still keep going. You just swap out the
panels when they get too dented.

~~~
johnward
I _think_ that aluminum holds up better against dings like a car door hitting
your door.

