
Android beats iOS in smartphone loyalty, study finds - middle1
https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/08/android-beats-ios-in-smartphone-loyalty-study-finds/
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askafriend
If you have the money to buy a new iPhone and are considering a new
smartphone, your range of options is effectively any smartphone device in the
market.

If you're buying an Android device, you're statistically likely trying to save
money and therefore a new iPhone isn't a realistic option. Thus, the range of
options you consider tends to be Android-only unless your smartphone budget
has changed significantly since the previous time you bought a phone.

These points are worth considering when looking at the chart presented in the
link.

~~~
markcerqueira
> If you're buying an Android device, you're statistically likely trying to
> save money and therefore a new iPhone isn't a realistic option.

Disagree strongly. Yes, plenty of Android phones come in at lower price-points
so they will be more appealing to people looking to save money when purchasing
a smartphone. But calling this is "statistically likely" is a gross
exaggeration of the situation.

~~~
askafriend
Like someone pointed out, there is significant data around this.

I am not exaggerating in the slightest.

~~~
criley2
You're hiding behind bad statistics to basically ignore all high end android
phones, Galaxy devices etc. You're pretending the entire high end android
market is "negligible" by using such shoddy statistics to essentially claim
"Android = Budget". We all know what you're doing when you make cheap, short
comments which obscure context to push narrative.

This is a very similar situation to people who use averages because medians
don't tell the narrative they want.

You have a narrative, and you have damned statistics, so reality doesn't
really get in your way.

~~~
askafriend
I'm not making a value judgement about the devices or them being "budget".
You're imposing that on my comment because for some reason you feel attacked
by my statements.

I am simply pointing out the realities of the market and what the data says.
Emerging markets are incredibly important in these numbers and emerging
markets overwhelmingly choose Android for obvious reasons. Android simply has
more market penetration in price-sensitive areas.

Look at Samsung's device ASP, it's around $300. Apple's is closer to $700. If
you cross reference these ASP numbers with market penetration, the narrative
will become clear. If Samsung's Galaxy line had significant impact, you'd see
it reflected in the ASP numbers.

If you want to have an actual measured conversation, feel free to introduce
new facts or data that might help us both gain a better understanding of the
mobile landscape. Until then, I don't think this conversation is entirely
productive if you choose to throw away all the data I pointed out and attack
me personally.

~~~
criley2
Sure. Let's add to the discussion using your data, hope you won't feel
offended or attacked since we're only discussing data

"iPhone owners are willing to spend more than double what Android owners are
for what is essentially same thing"

"iPhone owners demonstrably have less concept of frugality/value -- is it
advertising, branding or something else which overwhelms their judgement?"

I wonder why this is. Is it the marketing which makes iPhone owners spend
double? Is it the branding, the social status of buying a $1000 status object?
Or do iPhone users really believe that their phone calls and web browsers are
actually worth 3X the price?

~~~
askafriend
I'll look past your unwarranted snark - even with everything you said, my
point is simple and nothing you say contradicts it: if you can only afford a
phone for $300 or you only want to spend $300 on a phone, you are going to
pick Android because iOS isn't even an option for you.

Whether you think people who buy Apple products have a poor concept of value
or not is frankly irrelevant to the discussion.

~~~
criley2
I don't think it's irrelevant to a conversation where I explicitly said "what
else can we learn from your data", but I understand why my looking for other
conclusions from your data made you uncomfortable and made you use a weird
"irrelevance" attack to discard the observations instead of actually
responding.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi2tjMLVpdQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi2tjMLVpdQ)

I find it interesting that many of the folks who own everything choose Android
(unless they need iMessage).

>if you can only afford a phone for $300 or you only want to spend $300 on a
phone, you are going to pick Android because iOS isn't even an option for you.

Absolutely, you can get near flagship level Android devices for $250 (I just
picked up a Moto X4 for $250 myself) while such an Apple device would be more
than twice as much (and be unpopular enough that Apple's average sale is much
closer to full price).

I think this data makes a very strong case for iPhone users having a very poor
sense of value, regardless of whether or not you think this conclusion from
your data is "relevant" to discussion of your data or not.

~~~
askafriend
The only point I made is about optionality at a price point and how that can
be one factor that's important to keep in mind when looking at the data
presented in the article. That's literally all I pointed out.

You can either agree with me, or disagree with me and offer evidence to
disprove the value of what I said. I don't understand what you're trying to
accomplish by bringing taste or sense of value into this. If iPhone users have
a poor sense of value then so be it, it still neither helps strengthen nor
helps disprove my original point...

I'm sorry but I don't get your angle. I get the sense that you just want some
friends to argue with but I'm sorry - I can't be that person for you. You'll
have to find someone else. I think it's best for both of us to move on from
this conversation. It's been a pleasure, cheers.

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anbende
We likely have a baserate problem here. Most phones are android, so if someone
just picked at random, they’d usually pick android. This doesn’t always mean
‘android loyalty’. It could as easily mean ‘price loyalty’ or ‘carrier
promotion loyalty’. If someone picks iOS, with its smaller market share and
number of phones, it is more likely brand loyalty to Apple/iOS.

So the two loyalty numbers are not exactly comparable

~~~
LukaAl
Question: have you read the article? Loyalty rate is defined as the number of
users who switched from one platform to the other in the last year over the
number of user on the departing platform. They even say that the absolute
number looks different because of the bigger market share of Android.

Now, your argument is that someone who chose to stay with a device with
smaller CB is more loyal, but what the article is saying is that out of 100
Android user, around 90 bought a new Android when replacing the phone, while
only 86 Apple user bought a new iPhone.

I don't see how you dispute this fact as an evidence that Android users are
more loyal. Even an argument on network advantage doesn't work because Android
phones are very compatible with Apple ones (not the other way around) and the
Apple ecosystem is still pretty big...

~~~
anbende
Let me put it this way. You walk into a Verizon store and see 15 cell phones.
2-3 of them are iOS. The other 12-13 are android. Buying an iOS device is
likely to mean that your an Apple fan. Buying an android _might_ mean that you
like android. Or it might mean you like the particular phone, or you might be
price conscious. All things that are not “android loyalty”.

One problem is that iOS is essentially the same thing as iPhone in terms of
purchasing decisions. This is not true for android. Ergo, it’s not safe to
equate the phone and OS in the android world but it mostly is in the iOS
world.

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ebbv
Does anybody other than people who actually work in the marketing department
of a phone manufacturer care? Is anybody still basing their identity around
the brand of smartphone they use in 2018? If so, that's sad. The iPhone vs.
Android battles were stupid in 2010 they're beyond pathetic in 2018. Pick the
phone you like and move on with your life.

~~~
incompatible
Choosing IOS would be incompatible with my identity as an free software / open
source supporter. Android is bad enough already.

~~~
davidgould
I used Android phones for years due to this, I've been using GNU/Linux
exclusively since 1994 and the idea that Android was open was compelling to
me. I also believe Richard Stallman is an actual saint. However, Google's
appalling data collection practices and coercive dark patterns[0] and the fact
that the important parts of an Android phone are not at all open disillusioned
me on the virtue of Android. That and bad experiences[1] with my latest MotoG
persuaded me to switch. The final straw was that it started dieing
spontaneously under load. Too bad they did not think to slow it down when the
battery aged.

IOS may be against my free software religion, but bacon is delicious! I really
like my iPhone and I hated the last Android phone although the one previous
was not as bad.

Of course once you abandon your principles you are on the slippery path with
no anchor to prevent you from getting an iPad, Airpods, the watch, and
probably Homepod too. However, I'm still on GNU/Linux for desktop/laptop and
don't see that changing.

[0] Example: I used to use the Android phone as a pedometer with my treadmill
desk. After an update it refused to do this anymore without location services
enabled so that it could help me record my routes. I'm pretty sure a) I know
where my desk has been, b) I don't want Google knowing everywhere I go.

[1] Example, on the freeway going 75 surrounded by feral Trumpers in giant
pickup trucks, ask phone "Navigate to Fremont Costco". Do I get voice
navigation? or a map?. No, it puts up a dialog box about "the destination
location will be closing in 35 minutes, do you still want to do this?". I can
almost picture the product meeting where they dreamed up this feature. But
consider - the phone knows: It's only 10 minutes away, I'm headed toward it,
I'm obviously driving. Why would it think a little box full of tiny text is
remotely helpful or appropriate? IOS has some flaws but is never this obtuse.

~~~
incompatible
I can understand your points. It's easier for me because I'm not into phones
at all; I just use a $50 phone from a bargain bin. I'd prefer something I
could install an open source OS on, even if it was incompatible with
everything.

Edit: although since I'm not into phones, the preference doesn't extend to
spending money on it.

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pepe56
Android tends to be more flexible with a few things. At least I see a lot of
users using custom fonts and crazy widgets, that would never work out with the
iOS sandbox concept. iOS users that i know often have an iPhone because it
just works pretty well. They would use iMessage and iCloud and everything is
fully integrated.

I am currently on iOS, but I have deep concerns how Apple is controlling the
Apps on the App Store and in general is pushing its agenda to everyone’s phone
just like that. When my 6s breaks I will very likely switch back to Android
just for the reason of being able to root my device, sideload applications and
control traffic via hosts file. Also, Wireshark and other fun stuff.

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
I would like to see the data for the top end phones. Comparing the iPhone to
the Galaxy, Note, and Pixel, who has the brand loyalty?

Many people pick Android because that is what their cell phone provider has
for cheap.

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Multicomp
Between the ecosystems and physical handset variety (Freetel Mushashi vs.
Galaxy Note 8), I'm not surprised that the data would show that Android now
has higher loyalty than iOS.

Why? I would hazard that it would be the Google ecosystem; Gmail, Google Maps,
Google Drive, YouTube, etc are just about irreplaceable without compromises
that most non-HN users are not generally willing to make.

Edit: Well, guess who forgot something as elementary as Google ecosystem being
on Apple devices too? Me.

It's a strange feeling being embarrassed based on some text on the internet.

~~~
crazygringo
But the entire Google ecosystem is on iOS too.

One reason I keep everything on Google is because it lets me effortlessly
switch between Android and iOS.

(And it used to be that iOS apps were way behind/inferior to Android ones, but
that isn't usually the case anymore.)

~~~
zeveb
And one reason why I use Android phones is I know that the platform owner will
let me use whatever apps I wish, unlike iOS.

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oflannabhra
The headline makes this seem like a recent development, but according to the
CIRP data, this has been the case since 2013.

The article even makes note of this, further down.

For Apple, iOS is a differentiator. For everyone else making handsets, the
software is not a differentiator.

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matt_wulfeck
The numbers that don’t lie are in smart phone profits. If you have a
reasonable amount of loyalty, you will also be able to charge a premium. Yet
only Apple and maybe Google’s pixel are in that arena.

Money talks!

