

Microsoft Surface Pro Review - amartya916
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review

======
bitsoda
Who is this device for? It's a poor tablet due to its lackluster touch eco
system, battery life, size, and weight. And it's a mediocre laptop that can't
stay upright on an actual person's lap, and has a relatively small display for
a computer that is meant to be placed on a flat surface. Furthermore, the pre-
loaded software takes up 41 GB of HD space, making the more expensive $999
option the only feasible choice.

I don't get it. Why not spend that $999 buying a budget laptop that can
outperform the Surface Pro, and an inexpensive tablet like a Nexus 7/10 or
iPad mini? Design is about making compromises. Unfortunately for Microsoft,
they chose the wrong ones.

~~~
wisty
People don't use computers anymore. They use tablets. This is a tablet, which
can double as a computer for reading .doc files, and running .exe programs.

Remember when people used to buy laptops, and people like us used to say
"don't be stupid, just buy a powerful white-box for half the price; it's going
to spend 90% of its time on your desk anyway ... and if you really need
portability just buy a cheap laptop as a second computer."? It's all happening
again, and Microsoft has just realised it got left behind.

~~~
mbesto
_People don't use computers anymore._

Well, that's a very bold statement...

~~~
MortenK
Bold indeed, and entirely wrong.

~~~
wisty
Well, it's more like 25% of sales are tablets, and it's a growing segment.
I'll admit it's hyperbolic to say "everyone", though I can see tablets
outselling PCs before Windows 9 comes out.

~~~
laumars
You also have to bare in mind that most people already have a computer. Where
as most people don't (or at least didn't) own a tablet.

------
mixmax
Judging by the screenshots Microsoft still doesn't get design and why it's
important. It's not just about polish, it's about a user experience where the
overall design decisions saturate the whole device. Similar design elements
must have the same look and feel, and behave in similar ways.

The screenshot of the task manager looks like something from windows NT, the
display appearance screenshot looks like win7, and the whole thing is glossed
over by a new fancy design that seemingly is only a thin slice of beauty that
reveals the ugly interior as soon as you start delving into the system. From a
UI standpoint it looks like a complete mess, where the ugly head of legacy
rears its head at every corner.

This is the major differentiator between Apple and Microsoft, and is a large
factor in the continued success of Apple. Microsoft doesn't seem to understand
this at all.

~~~
halviti
_The screenshot of the task manager ..._

I find the task manager in Windows 8 to be a big improvement over previous
versions, so I spent 10 minutes going back and forth through the article
trying to find what you're talking about.

There are no pictures of the task manager at all.

You're attempting to base an opinion on some random photos, rather than
actually trying the product for yourself.

~~~
Shorel
For me, anything is a big improvement over the standard task manager, and I
always use Process Explorer instead.

------
RyanZAG
I can understand this product from the point of view of someone who spends
most of the day on the road, but still needs to use their windows business
software (common windows only sales software, etc). This is the identical
market to the ultrabook/netbook segment. The ultrabooks would generally have
better text input, while this surface pro tablet would have slightly better
battery life and be lighter and easier to carry around (but not by much,
really). Not too bad a product at all for this, and should get a number of
sales from business users within a few years when it has been tried and tested
by daring others in the respective companies.

However, from any other POV, this product seems to fall flat. Unless you have
to, nobody is going to use a win32 app on a tablet if they can use a similar
iPad app designed for touch. Nobody will give up the battery life of a real
tablet for the difficult to use win32 stylus programs, and the win8 apps just
aren't there yet. So this device will fail to compete in the tablet sector for
the identical reasons the RT tablet did not compete. It's just not as good a
tablet for tablet uses as an iPad.

Obviously it won't compete in the desktop/high end laptop segment, it's just
not capable enough.

I don't see this device being any kind of success in the short term, but with
revisions and company deals it may be able to corner the mobile business
market in future - a very large market - if it survives that long with the
politics at Microsoft and is able to reduce the price to compete with current
budget business laptops.

~~~
SirPulse
What do you mean " it won't compete in the desktop/high end laptop segment,
it's just not capable enough" ?

What is it not capable of?

~~~
redthrowaway
Gaming on it would certainly be sub-par with that hardware, and gaming
accounts for a good chunk of the high-end PC market.

~~~
adamnemecek
Because it's obvious that gamers are Surface's prime target.

~~~
redthrowaway
The question was whether or not it could compete in the desktop/high end
market, not whether or not it was targeted at gamers.

~~~
adamnemecek
For the purposes of those who it is marketed to, yes, yes it could.

------
tluyben2
The price, flaky keyboard (everyone keeps writing about missing keystrokes;
isn't that incredibly annoying?) and battery life put me off. Battery life
puts me off most laptops; it's time for 10 hour laptops, not more ~5 ones
(which, after a few months, will drop under 3). And as a tablet that's not
really an option. Version 2 or 3 might be something I would buy, however the
competition has now been kicked into this new reality (full power in a
tablet). Exciting.

So now up to Apple, Samsung, Asus, MS etc to make something with 10+ hours
battery life, 2560x1600 resolution, tablet and laptop in one, with the
performance of an i5/i7 :) Transformer Infinity is almost there besides the
performance of course. For me that's almost never an issue as I value battery
life much more, but in an ideal world I can take my entire environment with me
even when there is no internet available (I compile in the cloud now).

Edit: Wacom + pen would be a huge plus for my ideal machine. I wouldn't really
care about the price for such a thing.

Edit: maybe someone knows; is there some kind of solar panel tech in existence
which can be put 'on' the entire laptop/tablet surface without you seeing it
or being bothered by it? When I go for long walks I take my solar panel on my
back which keeps my Android tablet loaded for hours more than it would
normally do. It seems like a good idea to just put that in if it's possible?

------
pavlov
I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. It's a Windows 8 Pro tablet with the Intel
"Clover Trail" platform (dualcore 1.8 GHz Atom SOC).

For me, it hits the perfect sweet spot. It's iPad-sized; there are no fans or
vents; and I quite like the "Metro" touch apps because I'm already used to
Windows Phone. At the same time the Clover Trail platform is fast enough to
run Win32 desktop apps and the tablet comes with a pressure-sensitive Wacom
pen, so it's a pretty great little machine for sketching and painting. I
rather like the refreshed Office 2013 apps too, they're fine for mixed touch
and pen input.

The Thinkpad Tablet 2 is also much less expensive than the Surface Pro, so I'm
very happy with this choice... On the other hand I realize that my needs are
those of a minority. The market for 10-inch Wacom tablets is presumably not
that great. But if there is demand for "pro" tablets where precision input and
access to the existing Windows x86 ecosystem are requirements, then Clover
Trail + Windows 8 could have some legs.

~~~
nextparadigms
Atom is still way, way too slow for legacy programs, and that's supposed to be
one of the "strengths" of x86 tablets. They may support them, but if they work
slow on it, then it's all for nothing.

~~~
pavlov
The tablet feels about as powerful as a good x86 laptop from six years ago.
Clover Trail is faster than previous Atoms, and it's certainly helped by
having a Flash disk instead of a slow tiny hard drive.

I haven't noticed a problem with Win32 desktop apps. It would certainly be too
slow for something heavy-duty like the latest Visual Studio... But my use is
more oriented towards Office, browsing and art software which it handles fine.

------
b1daly
Speaking personally only, I've had a change in perspective about the
desirability of an all in one device. For along time I thought it would be
cool if you could have a phone as your cpu, and dock it up to the form factor
that appropriate for your context: tablet, notebook, desktop. As a pie in the
sky vision.

The surface pro, an actually here device seemed promising to me as a concept.
In particular, the ability to do some work in a different physical position,
(on the can, at the coffee shop, etc).

The surface pro seems enticing at first glance as I could run my main working
software (pro tools). It's dawning on me now lately though that I need a very
optimized, particular environment to work with any semblance of efficiency.
Powerful desktop, big monitor, custom set of input and pointing tools, the
particular set of utilities installed and running, plus speakers, comfortable
chair. And I need every thing in just the right spot. I need my desktop setup
just so, I rely on Mac os x spaces. I have custom keyboard macros. When all
this is just so, I can rock it, my efficiency goes way up.

It's just not worth it try to do actual work at the coffee shop, because even
if I can the experience is so sub optimal,I'd rather just skim the internet on
my nexus 7, and wait till I'm at my studio to work.

Buying a device that compromises both experiences, the long battery life,
light to hold tablet, and the serious workstation is not an improvement. A
nexus 7 is so cheap and light. I have a hand me down Mac book that does laptop
stuff just fine if I really need to work portably. And my work station stays
put, ready for heavy lifting.

What is the advantage of a hybrid device if any of the use cases are worse
than the stand-alones, if those use cases matter to you.

The surface is a worse experience compared to the dedicated devices in all
three form factors it's trying to compete in: desktop replacement, notebook,
tablet.

How is this a benefit? Most people who buy the surface pro are going to be
serious users of computers. It's worth it to pay for good tools. It's not that
hard to carry a 7inch tablet and a notebook.

I could see for a student, who is very budget comscious maybe this be useful.

------
mariusmg
This is the first machine ever build that works great as a tablet, ultrabook
AND desktop replacement . One machine to rule them all.

~~~
fekberg
I agree. Can't wait to get my hands on one and use it as a replacement in
meetings/demos/presentations just to see if it's better suited for that than
my "portable" EliteBook.

------
KaoruAoiShiho
2x the price but 5x the performance of an ipad4 (half the battery life but
w/e). Sold.

Edit: Wait, AND a wacom? OMG.

------
NZ_Matt
This is a tempting device, but I'll probably wait for version 2.

I feel like this is a step into the future where everyone carries one cloud
connected device that can then be docked when you want to get serious work
done. Is there an official dock that makes it simple to connect it to an extra
monitor, keyboard, speakers, etc ?

~~~
rogerbinns
Other manufacturers are also making similar devices. For example checkout the
Lenovo Helix
[http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/thinkpad-h...](http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/thinkpad-
helix/) and here is CES quick look showing the different modes
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yk3KyW_6Ug>

The keyboard base has USB 3 and displayport (separate from those on the
"tablet" bit). They also have a USB 3 dock that then has video, audio, more
USB etc ports.

~~~
Blara
I don't like the way that lenovo puts their "Fn" key where the (left) "Ctrl"
key should be, other than that it looks nice

~~~
gregstoll
On my Lenovo laptop, there's a BIOS setting to swap them, which I was very
happy to find!

~~~
Blara
I'll see if I can find that setting on my laptop as well :) thanks

~~~
rogerbinns
Lenovo introduced the BIOS setting in late 2009. If you have an older system
there may be an updated BIOS. Here is a video showing how to do it
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR955qVc068>

------
dizzystar
I think the surface is probably a great for what it is, but I think I'll dive
for a Lenovo Yoga. I tried a Yoga at the store last week and I was totally
smitten by it.

~~~
tluyben2
Yes, I like that one too, but it suffers from the same big problem; battery
life. I would buy the Yoga today if it had double the battery life.

~~~
dizzystar
Quick search shows about 5 1/2 hours with video + wifi running. It's not too
shabby but I haven't really ran into a use case where this is a major issue
for me yet. I generally use my tablet to read books or watch videos and I
don't work in a situation where I'd get pulverized for not having a longer
battery life where I wouldn't have access to a charger.

~~~
tluyben2
Me neither; I just find it annoying :) And like I said; when I buy a laptop
which starts out with X hours battery life, it'll take less than a year to get
to half of that. Only exception has been Fujitsu Lifebook laptops which, even
after years (I still have a p1510 with the extended battery) it still has the
same battery life and works like a charm.

------
ishansharma
I believe that Microsoft has too much legacy code in Windows to change it. At
best, Metro is a slapped on interface on Windows.

I have not used Surface but have a laptop with Windows 8. Hardware wise,
Surface is quite good but Windows has two basic problems:

1\. Legacy Code: No matter what, there will be some part of Windows that will
behave oddly and not upto current standards. I use multiple Wi-Fi networks and
my iPhone, iPad and my friend's Windows Phone automatically use proxy settings
for that network. Windows 8 needs a manual change.

2\. Slapped On Metro: Metro feels very unpolished. There are settings and
other apps in Metro but real power still lies with classic Windows UI.

Microsoft is presenting it as a "no compromises" approach but it feels like an
all compromises approach.

------
mads
I love the new Metro interface, when I am in my hot tub with my Lenovo Yoga,
but I hate it, when I am using the Yoga as a laptop.

Recently switched from Linux to Windows on my main laptop (driver proplems
with Linux) and still using Linux on my development laptop, but I think
Microsoft is on to something. Still needs improvement, no question...

I had an iPad and it was kind of "too simple"... Dont know how to describe
it.. With my current laptop (the Yoga, which has touch and doubles as tablet
and laptop), I kind of have everything in one device... I can do tablet in the
tub on in the bed and do development at my desk with one device.

------
rassene
I think surface pro should be compared to the Acer W700 tablet which come with
a i5-3317U processor and 4Gb of RAM. Somehow acer W700 manages to get 9 hours
battery life. The w700 is also cheaper and comes with a dock, Bluetooth
keybord, leather case, and HDMI to VGA adapter.

[http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W700-6691-11-6-Inch-
Tablet...](http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W700-6691-11-6-Inch-
Tablet/dp/B009H1BI0O)

------
chemmail
Got a chance to try out the pro. Was really excited since I've litterly been
waiting for something like this for 10 years starting with a tc1000 and 3 more
tablets since then. I have many iPads but they are really just toys.
unfortunately the pro needs just a bit more to get to the dream ms had since
their first tablets. It needs more buttons, a back button and a page up/down
scroll buttons on the side like a lot of tablets have. what's with the single
front button? This isn't an iPad,even android has 4. The stand needs maybe 3
levels of adjustment. Size and weight of the rt are almost perfect maybe
haswell can get us there. And one more thing, enough with this 16:9 aspect
ratio, we aren't going to be watching tv shows on this thing (not that much
anyways) give us 4:3 or 5:4 back so we can get some work done.

------
riffraff
in one page <http://www.anandtech.com/print/6695>

------
hayksaakian
Why is this superior to having a windows ultrabook (buzzword, i know) +
affordable tablet?

Especially now with touch screen laptops, the only utility I see here is the
lack of dedicated keyboard, but that's as big an advantage as disadvantage.

~~~
pekk
I would love to have one of these to do graphics work on the go: runs all the
industry stuff with some extra processing power, decent res, and Wacom input
(compare to the cost of Cintiq). Hopefully they will be able to improve
battery life in later models.

But for programming, I can't really understand using a tablet at all, while a
normal cheaper laptop will do just fine.

------
cubicle67
Arstechnica review [http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-
wit...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-with-
windows-8-pro-hotter-thicker-faster-louder)

------
jonheller
Microsoft seems to be repeating many of the mistakes here of the pre iPad
tablets, when there was a crazy in the mid 2000's or so of everyone trying to
succeed with one. It's a machine that tries to be both and excels and neither.

------
nextparadigms
I think TheVerge's conclusion [1] says exactly what I thought about Windows 8
and Windows 8 hybrids from day one:

 _"It tries to do everything, but misses doing anything really well"_

Something like the Surface Pro has a lot of compromises, starting from the
schizophrenic UI, to high price, too small screen to be productive on it, low
battery on it, heat, noise, fans, and so on. It's not the "best of both
worlds". It's the _worst_ of both worlds.

[1] [http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/5/3955130/microsoft-
surface-p...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/5/3955130/microsoft-surface-pro-
review)

------
regalasiono
This device is terrible. Get an iPad instead.

------
RexRollman
I don't think I will buy this but I do like the idea of a tablet that can run
Foobar2000.

------
itsbits
People here forgetting the fact that Surface is hafling..half tablet, half
PC..so the design and UX you see has to meet both both requirements..That way
i think Microsoft has done gr8 job..but problem is who needs halflings?

~~~
manojlds
Not _has to_. It is more like _will_ meet both requirements. It is the first
step towards the future.

~~~
itsbits
do u really think there is a use of PC for a normal user in future?? The way i
understand the common requirements for a user is watching videos; reading
news, books, listening audio; playing games which all can be done by current
touch devices..PCs may exist for developers etc..but tablets just take away
the basic use of PC...

------
cooldeal
Sad to see this submission getting flagged just like it happens with any
article that is not extremely negative on Microsoft. So even reviews of a
Microsoft product are not welcome on HN.

Many years ago, I read a comment on Reddit calling HN a bunch of Apple
fanboys. After these years I have realized it mostly consists of Google and
Apple fanboys and irrational. Why else would someone with good karma go out of
their way to flag this _review_ from Anandtech of all people?

I am sure people are waiting for the inevitable deprecating takes of Gruber,
Marco, Siegler etc. on the Surface. Those will shoot straight up the front
page.

~~~
marknutter
How do you know if people are flagging the article?

~~~
tluyben2
I would like to know as well; this article ranked front page and #1 for quite
a long time?

~~~
cooldeal
See my other comment here.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5177366>

Funnily, THAT story got flagged as well and is sitting on third page now.

------
SirPulse
Completely misunderstood the product. Its a mistake to compare the Surface pro
with iPad. The right device to compare with is the MacBook air. both of them
have the same capability and are in the same class.

Expected better from you Anand

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Its a mistake to compare the Surface pro with a MacBook Air. You can't use the
air on your lap like a standard laptop (I've tried with the RT...ouch!).

But really, I'm not sure what to compare this against, or how it fits in
between my iPad and MacBook Air. Which one does it replace?

~~~
nchlswu
That one data point doesn't mean it's a mistake to compare it with the MBA.
It's "complete" functionality and more importantly, price after keyboard means
the MBA comparison should be made. Comparisons to tablets and other hybrids
should also be made.

What I find interesting is the confusion about the product's positioning in
the market. I am also confused and don't think it bodes well for the customer.
At the base, it's most commonly known as a tablet, but the keyboard begins to
confuse things. The moment you get into the Pro territory, the price confuses
things even more. Even outside of the "RT/Pro" discussion, I'm not sure if
it's lack of clear (existing) product category is beneficial for MS

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I have an RT with the touch cover and haven't used it yet, since I never have
a table to put it on. The air doesn't need a table to use its keyboard so is
much more usable for me. I use the iPad in bed since it has a better screen,
I'm having trouble finding a use for the RT yet.

But I think my habits are unique, not representive of th typical consumer.

