
Those odd-looking security barriers - edward
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/11/06/those-odd-looking-security-barriers/
======
brenden2
I would love to see more bollards deployed in Manhattan to protect
pedestrians. Every day I see drivers making dangerous moves, running red
lights, and intimidating people in crosswalks etc. There's one particular spot
right in front of my apartment where I see people run the red light
constantly, but the NYPD does nothing. Across the US, pedestrian and cyclist
deaths are on the rise[1][2].

I've always thought it might be worth using retractable bollards in busy
intersections to protect people from dangerous drivers, or to stop those who
simply do not respect pedestrians. Traffic enforcement in NYC seems weak at
best, and the NYPD appears to favour drivers over pedestrians and cyclists.
Their enforcement activities involve ticketing delivery drivers (who have
literally killed nobody ever) instead of keeping dangerous drivers off the
roads.

[1]: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/07/traffic-
deat...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/07/traffic-deaths-new-
york-city-surge-2019)

[2]: [https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/pedestrian-deaths-at-
hi...](https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/pedestrian-deaths-at-highest-
level-since-1990-nhtsa/565756/)

~~~
Someone1234
It is an interesting idea, but retractable barriers aren't super reliable, get
hit semi-frequently, and you'd need to design additional tools to assist
emergency vehicles.

Red light cameras could likely solve the situation with no physical or
mechanical considerations.

~~~
Miraste
Red light cameras don't increase safety [1]. They may shift some of the
injuries from pedestrians to drivers, but overall there's no benefit.

[1]
[https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3078079](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3078079)

~~~
tstrimple
I didn't see it mentioned, but I wonder if the study also accounts for the
practice of reducing yellow light duration to increase revenue from red light
cameras as a means of generating more revenue.

[https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-
sho...](https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-
yellow-light-times-for-profit/)

~~~
mumblemumble
That was my first thought. Chicago's red light program is rather infamous,
and, as a pedestrian, I do feel less safe at the intersections that had them
installed. The lights change so fast that a motorists who presumably don't
realize how ridiculously short the timing on Chicago traffic lights can be
often sail through the intersection a good 1-2 seconds after the lights have
signaled for crossing traffic - both vehicles and pedestrians - to proceed.

IMO, the best system is the one they have in Montréal. The traffic lights work
a bit differently from the rest of North America in several ways, but one is
special "vertical green bar" lights indicating that you're only allowed to go
straight. No turns allowed until the regular green lamp illuminates. This does
a pretty effective job of encouraging motorists to wait for pedestrians.
Québec drivers are somewhat famously aggressive, but I still felt safer as a
pedestrian in Montréal than in any other North American city I've visited.

~~~
Izkata
I've seen green up arrows (to mean the same thing) plenty in the west suburbs
of Chicago.

------
mywittyname
> The system recently passed impact tests, where it prevented a 7,200kg lorry
> travelling at 32kph from penetrating less than five metres.

How about a 4,500lb (2,000kg) SUV traveling at 65mph (105kph)?

20mph (32kph) is a crawl. Even a slow passenger vehicle can hit that speed
within 60ft (18m) or so. I think tests should involve vehicles going at least
40mph (65kph) if they are attempting to present realistic results.

~~~
Someone1234
There's different "levels" of vehicle security barriers (see ISO standard
IWA14). This one is only rated to 2,500 kg @ 48 kph (90 degree impact) or
7,200 kg @ 32 kph (90 degree impact). Making it a lightweight/temporary.

That's exactly how the manufacturer sells it too, listing it under "Temporary
Security." Boasting that it is lightweight, small to store, quick to deploy,
with only four men and no machines required. Great for events or as a short
term solution.

If you look at how it is deployed in London, they have it in locations where
you'd never be able to get up to high speed due to the layout of the
streets/congestion. With hopefully(?) more long term barriers being in the
works.

So I don't think it is a significant criticism to say it is a weak VSB. That's
exactly the niche it is trying to fulfil, and exactly how it is advertised.

------
brontide
> Those crumpled weak looking plastic barriers are just a cladding, and what’s
> underneath is enough to give people second thoughts about ramming a vehicle
> at them — massive spikes.

Its sad how much of an after-thought these covers are. Each cover is crumpled
in from the inevitable teenager standing on top of one… besides looking bad,
it seems like a huge liability for whomever implements these barriers.

------
JackFr
In NYC for extra special occasions (a United Nations dinner at the
Metropolitan Museum of Art for instance) the police will close the street
around the venue. They prevent all motor vehicle traffic with an extremely
practical, temporary and unglamorous security measure -- parking two garbage
trucks across all the adjoining intersections.

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reaperducer
_The big plant pots outside offices aren’t filled with concrete, but a fine
honeycomb of aluminum that’s designed to crumple and absorb the impact
energy._

In Chicago, more often than not, they're filled with bunnies. They're actually
massive pots filled with dirt and rabbits from nearby parks build their
warrens in them. Good for the building and good for the critters.

~~~
NullPrefix
>and good for the critters

Until they are actually used for their purpose - absorbing the impact energy ?

~~~
reaperducer
Depends on when an impact happens. They only go in the planters at night, when
an impact seems significantly less likely. Although they do stay in the bigger
ones all winter.

------
sigmaprimus
These are a great idea, I not sure how the plastic will look after a few years
of service. Maybe they are designed to have the plastic replaced after they
get scuffed, burned and cracked by people walking by them?

Just a thought but I wonder if liquid filled , haywire wrapped bollards might
be a better idea, the liquid can be drained to allow easy relocation and the
haywire would tangle the wheels similar to how chainsaw saftey chaps work.

~~~
ken
Probably the same as any other hard plastic device that sees frequent public
deployment. No cable ramp looks half as nice as it does in the manufacturer
photos, either.

Adding large quantities of liquid to a safety device comes with its own set of
challenges.

------
notelonmusk
In my days they called these Cheval de frise

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheval_de_frise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheval_de_frise)

------
njharman
> The system recently passed impact tests, where it prevented a 7,200kg lorry
> travelling at 32kph from penetrating less than five metres.

That does not sound great. 32kph is slow and 5 meters! easily crosses entire
sidewalk/roadway/whatever who wanted to keep vehicle out of.

~~~
nrki
Designed for congested/small UK streets where a lorry can't get up to
significant speed.

Also they are primarily deployed at the entrances to long walkways/bridges,
where a lorry at speed would do significant damage to pedestrians. As these
prevent a lorry from entering a walkway, 5m of rapidly-slowing "penetration"
is acceptable.

------
Jamwinner
There is an air of paranoia unique to the UK with these things. Not sure I
have ever seen an anti-ramming device outside a few poles out fron of pawn and
liquor shops in especially bad areas. Is the situation that bad to warrant
what seem like military barriers? I am at a loss.

~~~
goda90
I feel like bollards have an amazing effectiveness to intrusiveness ratio.
They stop people from using vehicles to attack lots of people, but they don't
really interfere with day to day living, or violate any privacy.

~~~
aphextim
>They stop people from using vehicles to attack lots of people.

This seems like a relatively new phenomenon in the past 10 years or so. That
or maybe I just never would hear about the vehicle attacks prior and it is
just more spoken about now.

Regardless whether this is a new phenomenon at least they are taking steps to
mitigate the impact of these types of attacks.

~~~
reaperducer
They've been around for a long time. I fractured my knee on one in Brussels in
the 99's that looked like they'd been there for decades, if not centuries.

I think they're more popular now because building owners are trying to keep
their insurance rates down and there is an industry to take advantage of that.

~~~
aphextim
I can see that, much like in the USA there were a ton of companies trying to
profit off of the school shootings offering things like clear backpacks for
every student, metal detectors at every entrance, video surveillance etc.

I'm not saying that some of these companies don't want to help prevent another
tragedy or mitigate them, however there are a ton of companies trying to make
a quick buck off of people emotional and suffering from a tragedy.

Some form of detection/protection is nice, but I feel that we shouldn't have
to button down every school and treat it like Ft. Knox either. Schools can
hardly afford after school programs, much less hi-tech security
systems/operators.

------
NullPrefix
What happens to a passenger car if it drives straight to it? My guess would be
that the metal shaft would impale the car and the occupants.

~~~
LeonM
It might impale the engine, which is designed to slide underneath the cabin in
case of a frontal collision.

I'd say the risk for the occupants should be similar to hitting a boulder or a
tree. It all depends on the speed at impact, but given that these barriers are
mainly used in urban areas I don't think they would form much of a risk.

------
freeflight
_The system recently passed impact tests, where it prevented a 7,200kg lorry
travelling at 32kph from penetrating less than five metres._

[https://vimeo.com/230126272](https://vimeo.com/230126272)

As a German, I'm kinda confused how that "truck" is called a "lorry". I think
in Germany it would be classified as a PKW (Personal vehicle) [0], as opposed
to an LKW (Cargo vehicle) [1].

I wonder how such a barrier would fare against an LKW with heavy cargo?

[0]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personenkraftwagen](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personenkraftwagen)

[1]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lastkraftwagen](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lastkraftwagen)

~~~
mfontani
> where it prevented a 7,200kg lorry travelling at 32kph from penetrating less
> than five metres.

Doesn't "preventing from penetrating less" mean it allowed it to penetrate
more?

~~~
wongarsu
I would read it as equivalent to "forced it to penetrate at least five meters,
if it penetrates at all".

If I prevent you from entering a password shorter than 8 characters that means
you can either not enter a password or one with at least 8 characters. This is
exactly analogous.

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nimbius
The thing nobodies mentioned in the article is that these types of barriers
are for ingress and egress, and aren't largely practical for pedestrian spaces
like San Francisco's embarcadero or a large park. In my opinion bollards still
largely win. Ease of construction, omnidirectional impact, and no compromise
in devastating stopping power. They're also capable of being aesthetic.

------
roddux
I miss the days I could walk through a crowded area without seeing these awful
things.

The problem is, as these barriers become more widespread, the...
perpetrators... of such attacks will simply move to other means of violence.
Today we have regulations for buying cleaning products, minimum age
requirements for buying cutlery, huge concrete barriers protecting us from
cars... Some clever bugger is going to realise that pointy sticks are
dangerous, soon. What then?

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tenebrisalietum
For some reason this reminded me of Czech hedgehogs.

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hiroshi3110
it reminds me Archer’s stakes.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer%27s_stake](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer%27s_stake)

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collegespam
They have to place such things in public now? How terribly saddening. I doubt
many people will enjoy taking a stroll through what feels like a high-security
area.

I'm wondering how much longer until we get what part of China have, where you
must go through a metal detector or other security to enter, say, a grocery
store. But it's all for our security, so I'm sure it's okay.

~~~
wackro
Your post reads like the lowest kind of tabloid sensationalism.

Plenty of things are out there protecting the public's safety already, some of
which are far more notable than crumpled alumiunium plant pots.

------
dwoozle
Unintended, but not unforeseeable, consequences of the Schengen Zone.

~~~
loriverkutya
The UK is not in the Schengen Zone.

