
Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle - helloworld
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chevy-bolt-meet-the-first-practical-mass-market-electric-vehicle-2017-10-22
======
hedora
We just managed to sell another flagship GM vehicle, and the software was so
bad, it was nearly a deal-breaker. (Most years of this model had software bugs
that were so bad, they could literally kill you — for example, the exhaust
system could overheat, and burn the car down). Also, basic electro-mechanical
things, like seat belts and the FM radio started to die after 3-4 years. This
is with light use in CA.

Even when new, the new model handled terribly compared to the old GM (same
model, engine size, etc).

Its compauter regularly locked the rear wheels when turning and going uphill,
and the steering geometry caused it to squeal the tires at low speeds in
parking lots. Neither the old GM, nor the replacement had these problems, and
all three are essentially identical body styles.

Tl;dr: Congrats to GM, but I’m waiting for literally anyone else to ship a
competitive EV.

~~~
hedora
Case in point. I thought I read bolts (volts?) sometimes put themselves into
reverse and accelerate while off+charging. I wanted to paste a link, but found
this article instead. It looks like this safety issue is by design. (Also, CR
says the handling is “choppy” on uneven pavement, which matches my old lemon):

[http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/#/topics/7778?page=1](http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/#/topics/7778?page=1)

“On this rainy morning while turning to park in a stall and so I take my food
off the accelerator and expected the heavy regenerative braking. Instead it
accelerated in to the stall and so I had to brake heavily and it still didn't
seem to take hold. Luckily the cement parking block stopped the car albeit I
still went over it.”

Response from other owner:

“Very possible for Regen to deactivate in slippery conditions. Hitting a large
bump may also disengage Regen, which will feel like the car is actually
speeding up (since you are expecting it to decelerate).”

~~~
abduhl
your case in point is that someone who wanted to park decided not to use his
brakes?

is removing your foot from the accelerator instead of using the brake a
standard learned behavior amongst bolt/volt owners?

~~~
arkades
Yes, because that’s how regenerative braking works. This was discussed at
length in the linked article.

~~~
klipt
That sounds dangerous. By comparison the Prius uses regenerative braking when
you hit the brake, but if that isn't enough it will switch to normal
(friction) braking.

Having something that switches from braking to no brake without warning seems
like ... terrible design.

~~~
slackingoff2017
Uhhh, manual cars have worked like this forever. In first gear especially the
braking when you let off the gas is enough to be jarring if you're not gentle

~~~
alistairSH
Yes, but there is no computer turning mechanical engine braking on and off
based on some set of non-trivial conditions.

~~~
slackingoff2017
Ehhhh that's not quite true either.

Above a certain rpm the engine cuts fuel completely and engine braking is
strong. In cars with electronic throttle control the computer might also open
the throttle to maximize energy consumed compressing air.

As you pass through that cutoff range the engine starts firing again, maybe
700 rpm above idle. Engine braking stops being effective when this happens.

Also, newer cars don't do a full fuel cut when engine braking with a cold
engine or if the catalyst is getting too cold to work. So sometimes engine
braking isn't very strong.

Basically you can't rely on engine braking so when you're doing it your foot
usually hovers on the brake pedal. This isn't any different than the hybrids

~~~
alistairSH
#carbureted4life

Whatever the case, I've found engine braking to be fairly consistent in manual
transmission cars at a given speed/gear. But, I've never thought I could rely
on it to bring me to a stop in a parking lot. It blows my mind that an EV
driver would think that.

------
mach5
we own one, can agree that its great! it's my wife's daily driver, and with my
own trips in it, i can't even imagine getting another ICE when the time comes
to get a new car for myself. the L mode itself is almost a new driving
experience, controlling the car fully through just one pedal and trying to eke
out every last drop of kinetic energy back into the battery, and making it a
challenge to never use the brakes. it's nearly as fun as a manual
transmission. i mentioned this before in another thread, but the most
hilarious part of ownership is the maintenance schedule. it's as follows:

* every 12,500mi: rotate tires

* every 22,500mi: change cabin air filter

* every 5 years: replace brake fluid

* every 150,000mi: replace battery cooling fluid

~~~
samcheng
Be careful, Tesla drivers discovered that _never_ using the brake,
particularly in areas that use salt on the roads, results in expensive
corrosion. Automotive brakes haven't been designed with one-pedal driving in
mind...

[https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/24/8500-new-tesla-
model-s-...](https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/24/8500-new-tesla-model-s-
brakes-canada/)

Recommendation: consciously use the brakes in a firm deceleration once a week.

~~~
mach5
to say i don't use the brakes is a little bit of a misnomer, as i use them at
stoplights in order to activate the rear brake lights for other drivers. two
more bits of trivia: the brake lights activate during regen for more than .2g
of deceleration, and the brake rotor metal is formulated not to rust.

~~~
nixgeek
I'm pretty sure taking your foot entirely off the gas pedal when in "L" mode
actually activates the brake lights.

~~~
ec109685
It does on the Tesla.

~~~
BoorishBears
And anything with regen because of this:

UN Regulation on Stoplight Activation:

[http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/...](http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/R13hr2e.pdf)

Electric regenerative braking systems as defined in paragraph 2.17., which
produce a retarding force upon release of the accelerator control, shall
generate the signal mentioned above according to the following provisions:

<= 0.7 m/s/s The signal shall not be generated

> 0.7 m/s/s and <= 1.3 m/s/s The signal may be generated

> 1.3 m/s/s The signal shall be generated

------
CaliforniaKarl
The question I have to ask: Has anyone here gotten an EV and successfully
gotten a charger setup going in an apartment garage?

For where I live, I'd say we have 100-150 parking spaces, all underground.
There are two spaces that have chargers, which are first-come-first-served, I
don't count them.

So, the idea would be to get my own charger. I already have a safe place to
put it: There is a wide-but-not-deep storage unit at the back of my parking
space, with concrete behind it. I could have a charger properly mounted to the
concrete wall, and I don't use the storage space, so I could keep it open when
charging. The annoyance then is having to get a little electrical conduit run
to the nearest place where a meter can be installed. That's likely going to be
all the way across the length of the garage, and then up a level.

As for work, there are charge points on Stanford's campus, but they are not
free. Assuming I take a charging slot for the entire workday, I'd be paying
around $3,400 per year, for charging fees and a parking permit.

~~~
greglindahl
Yes, I live in Palo Alto (near you) and I convinced my apartment complex to
install an EV charger: 2 chargers, and conduit for 4 more.

I'm mystified why you aren't counting the 2 chargers that your apartment
complex does provide. For all I know we live at the same place. I'm happy,
you're unhappy. Given the large battery in a Bolt, do you really need to
charge every day?!

~~~
ianai
“Happy you’re unhappy”.

2 charging spaces that are first come first serve are probably impossible to
use.

~~~
greglindahl
In my case, the 2 spaces are not impossible to use, I've used them. (The
complex has 280 bedrooms.)

Also, when they become more contended, the capacity can be tripled. (They're
waiting until it becomes needed.)

Sounds like you didn't even try.

Edit: I don't think I've ever gotten 4 downvotes on HN for anything before,
but it's fair to say that this is hardly the most arguable thing I've said!

------
whalesalad
Note that this is the Bolt not the Volt. Even as a petrol head who owns a V8
and a Subaru STI, I really like what GM has done with this vehicle.

Really really great review from Doug DeMuro here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2ogGZXmepY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2ogGZXmepY)

Doug has a great style - really digs deep into all the quirks and oddities of
the cars he reviews.

~~~
Pxtl
Calling their new full-electric the Bolt after they already had the Volt was
the dumbest product naming marketing fowlup since the Wii-U.

~~~
MrRadar
It's even worse in Europe. There the Volt is called the Ampera and the Bolt is
called the Ampera-E... even though it's a completely unrelated design.

~~~
mtgx
Wow...at least they sold Ampera-E to Renault. Hopefully Renault won't make the
same mistake, considering they din't name their ZOE "Clio-E" (which of course
would've been pretty dumb).

~~~
Tade0
I believe Opel was sold to PSA, not Renault-Nissan.

This does not bode well for the Ampera-e, because PSA has a penchant for
crises.

~~~
pi-rat
I ordered my Ampera-E 11 months ago. Last time I heard anything at all was 5
months ago. Sent a email to my seller couple of weeks ago - nada. Norwegian
electric car forums are full of similar stories.

Now they've stopped taking new orders for Ampera-E (as of last week).

I might have to cancel and get the Hyundai Kona instead if this continues..

~~~
Tade0
Heh, and I'm here complaining that Toyota Bank is four days late with my share
of the insurance money on the car I was leasing that had been stolen.

Anyway I'm sorry to hear that. They really should have given you at least a
reply - especially that so much time has passed.

I sure hope they won't try to make the Kona drive "like a normal car". I test
drove the IONIQ hybrid and it seems that some genius thought it would be great
if you _hadn 't_ had instant torque, as opposed to hybrids from Toyota.

------
bluedino
>> $43,905

Wow. For that much money, I'll take a Chevy pickup. Twice the interior room, a
bed for storage, 4WD for the winters... They show the Bolt with a kayak on the
roof, but with a truck I can take 2 kayaks (or pull a boat), still put 3 other
people and a dog, a cooler, everyone's camping gear for the weekend, fishing
poles, everything I'd actually need to go on kayaking trip for the weekend.

Sure, I'll have to buy gasoline, but that's a measly $1,600 a year.

~~~
gilrain
Some people value reduced impact on our ailing environment over immediate
convenience.

~~~
EADGBE
How about both?

I'm waiting for an electric truck. I'll have my cake and eat it, too.

For some folks - a surprising amount in the United States - the practicality,
livelihood, and sometimes necessity of a truck outshines its inefficiencies.

~~~
otterley
I'm not convinced this is entirely true. The majority of people need a truck a
few times a year at most. For them, rental is a practical option. The rest of
the year, an ordinary sedan or hatchback will suit their needs just fine. If
this were not so, people in other first-would countries would also buy trucks
as their primary vehicles, and we know that's not the case. (It helps that
fuel taxes elsewhere are more realistic -- i.e. higher -- in terms of being
able to pay for the infrastructure and other externalities.)

The reason people buy trucks in the U.S. is largely (a) cultural and (b)
because they can afford them, both in terms of payments and fuel taxes.

~~~
luckydude
So I used to feel like you do until I moved to the Santa Cruz mountains. A
half ton pickup is pretty much required. I have a chevy extended cab, 8 foot
bed, gets used all the time for stuff that I couldn't do with a car.

In addition to that I have a chevy 3500 HD dually flatbed that gets used as
well. It's an entirely different beast, I've hauled 10,080 pounds of base rock
in that thing and I still had spring left.

It also gets used for patching potholes:

[http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/17/mountain-vigilantes-
ta...](http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/17/mountain-vigilantes-tackle-
plague-of-potholes/)

The half ton is the blue truck and the 3500 is the white truck. This is set up
as a quick attack wild land fire truck (there is a 425 gallon water thank, 9HP
davey fire pump with 2 hose connections, 300 feet of 1.5" hose, bunch of
nozzles, shovels, etc):

[http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/fire-attack/](http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/fire-attack/)

My trucks get used pretty much daily, living up here without them makes zero
sense to me. They are just tools and very much needed in this environment.
Sort of like guns, I lived in San Francisco and was very anti gun, moved up
here and realized that guns are just tools and sometimes you need them.

That said, I'd _love_ to replace the trucks with electric versions. I'm a huge
fan for a lot of reasons. Tesla, if you are listening, please, please give us
a family of pickups. If you do just one then a half ton is gonna be the
highest volume but I'd love a beefy 1 ton.

~~~
otterley
Yes, Larry, you are special. <3

~~~
luckydude
Actually a more serious reply. I'm not special at all, anyone living in a
rural area ends up with a pickup. I need to stock pile gas at my place for the
chainsaws and the chipper and the log splitter, etc. I usually have 25 gallons
when I'm "full". The gas cans leak a little, do you want that in your nice
car? Nope, that's what a pickup is for.

In rural areas it's normal to get stuck. I pull people out of the ditch all
the time, can your car do that?

I have to carry 4 trash cans a mile and a half up the road every week, that's
where the trash gets picked up, can your car do that?

I have to haul concrete bags up here all the time, like a pallet at a time,
can your car do that?

All of you folks who live on the coast and do tech work seem to have forgotten
that there are a bunch of people who are farmers or whatever, who live in
rural areas, their needs are different than yours. The idea that they could
rent a pickup for the few times a year that they need it just shows that you
have no clue what their daily life is like.

And that's why Trump got elected. Get a clue, figure out how the fly over
people live and maybe have some compassion for their lot. Or not, enjoy Trump
1.0, you'll get Trump 2.0 until you figure it out.

~~~
EADGBE
Everyone forgets how different this country is from Sea to Shining Sea.

A lot of people in the US can live without ever needing a truck.

\--and--

A lot of people in the US couldn't live without a truck.

~~~
luckydude
^ This guy gets it.

------
ukulele
At $35k+ with 240 miles of range, it's starting to get close but realistically
not quite there yet for "mass market" adoption. I hope I'm wrong but this will
likely be a minor seller.

Also re: the $7500 federal tax rebate, most people can't take full advantage
because they don't owe that much and it doesn't carry over past the first
year. Still a good program but not a magic wand solution.

~~~
usaphp
> $7500 federal tax rebate, most people can't take full advantage because they
> don't owe that much

I am pretty sure _most_ of those who can afford to purchase a 35k+ car are
making at least 40k / year and owe that much in federal taxes, unless I am not
calculating something right

~~~
arrrg
What I never really thought is that that‘s still a pretty dumb was to
subsidize any kind of purchase. It massivly advantages the rich(er). Why do it
that way?

~~~
hedora
The US has a highly regressive tax system, at least for middle class earners
and up. We do _everything_ that way.

~~~
rhino369
No it doesn't. The fact that a 7k deduction doesn't help middle class people
proves we don't have a regressive system.

The US middle class is relatively lightly taxed.

------
davexunit
I love my Bolt. I bought it in MA for $3000 off MSRP thanks to Mass Drive
Green, got a $2500 rebate check from the state, and will get a $7500 federal
tax credit. I was really nervous to pull the trigger and go full electric and
buy a new car for the first time (always bought used) but 11,000 miles later I
have no regrets.

~~~
radiorental
Nice, I got my leaf through drive green for $16K after tax & fees. Nissan's 0%
financing and free state-wide charging are nice bonuses if you need them.

I've been putting 1K miles / month on it, which is my historical average.

The charging at work seals the deal. For the few times I need to charge at
home I think I've spent somewhere under $30 to travel 11K miles this year (o;

Short range EVs are not for everyone but if it suits your commute, they're a
no-brainer. And a hell of a lot of fun to drive (o;

------
chairmanwow
As a sidebar, I really wish that Blendle would exit Beta so that I could buy
these extremely interesting articles as a one-off micropayment. I don't intend
to get a subscription with every top news organization (NY Times, New Yorker,
The Atlantic, WSJ, Economist etc), but I would be more than happy to pay
$0.25-0.75 for an article like this.

I want to pay for their content, but getting locked into a subscription when I
don't want to read the majority of the content in any one of these
publications is foolhardy. And unlike streaming platforms like Spotify,
Netflix, HBO etc these news platforms don't provide nearly the same return on
investment. I listen to Spotify 15-20hrs per week, I watch Netflix for at
least 6hrs / week. High quality journalism is _very valuable_ , but certainly
these publications are aware that they aren't in the same weight-class as
Netflix and Spotify in terms of value to customers individually. As an
aggregate, I would easily spend $10 / month consuming "high quality technology
and research news and opinion" pieces.

Please, for the love of god, provide me with a sensical way to pay for your
content.

~~~
akvadrako
Why does Blendle have to exit beta for this to happen?

BTW, I consider $0.50 for an article to be ridiculous; that's probably 100x -
1000x how much they would make from an advertisement. But no problem, you can
often find WSJ articles for free if you just google the title.

------
strin
I own a chevy volt and it never felt as good as it should be. Initially it has
a burning smell on gas mode. I took it to the dealership for maintenance and
they said GM's official solution is to install a "carbon filter" to the
venting. It has an integration with Apple CarPlay that works most of the time
but has some small glitches.

It all felt like... Nokia - you know the times when you buy those smartphones
expecting them to be really intelligent but they turn out to be awefully hard
to use... until iPhone came along.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
I dunno, my Gen 2 Volt is the best vehicle I've ever owned, and I've owned two
Subarus, VW diesel Jetta, and driven a lot of other car in my 26 years of
driving. I have almost no complaints about it, and it is the first domestic
car I've owned.

I sat in a Bolt while a friend drove it. It's a good car, too. I just need
more cargo area. Also they're really hard to get here in Ontario.

------
CalChris
If you buy an EV, you should be happy with its range when you buy it. Like
laptops and cellphones, that will degrade as all batteries do. But also like
laptops and cellphones, when you replace that battery down the road, it is
unlikely you'll get an upgrade. You'll get the same range.

At least that was the case with my 2013 Leaf with its 85 mile range. I had it
in mind that when it came for a new battery I'd get maybe a 10% upgrade. While
the new batteries mechanically fit, they are somehow incompatible. FWIW, my
2013 is pretty good as Leafs go. Down one bar.

But if the range is 150 miles or better, I don't think that matters as much. I
think buying used EVs in the future will be a thing. Just not the 2013 Leaf.

Other than that, I'm sold on EVs. I'd never buy a hybrid or gas car again.

~~~
mikeash
I'm wary of comparing with laptops and cell phones, because a proper EV
drivetrain will suffer much less degradation. Consumer electronics batteries
are poorly cooled and prioritize daily capacity over long-term life, so they
degrade much more quickly. I'm sure you know this, but I see a lot of people
thinking their car battery will only last 2-3 years because that's how their
cell phone is.

For what it's worth, I appear to have an outlier, but my Tesla's battery has
degraded well under 1% after 2.5 years and 40,000 miles.

~~~
redler
I thought I read, perhaps here, that Tesla over-provisions its batteries and
uses software to optimize the battery "working set" to minimize perceptible
range degradation.

~~~
mikeash
I don't believe they hide degradation. They do use less than the full capacity
of the batteries in order to _minimize_ degradation, though. Lithium batteries
hate extremes, so if you map the official "0-100%" range to an actual range
of, say, 10-90%, that will greatly prolong the life of the battery.

~~~
jmiserez
Even without doing that, 0% on lithium ion batteries is not actually 0%.
Because once you deep discharge it you can’t recharge it again safely.

------
Shivetya
GM should be proud of the Bolt and the Volt as well; I own a Volt because it
suits my usage needs much better than a pure EV.

However GM is still in the stone ages when it comes to OnStar. You get a short
trial and then you are faced with 14.95 and higher per MONTH fees to access
their services. Not a problem you say, don't need their navigation in a day of
smart phones and the only real value is calling the authorities when you
crash.

Yet the kicker is, the GM app which lets you lock/unlock, start/stop you car
suddenly loses the ability to tell you your cars tire pressures and range
remaining for both fuel and electric. Yep, GM gated that behind an OnStar
subscription. Did not used to be, but they threw some switch recently which
made the app near useless.

------
brightball
You can get a 1 year old Volt for about 15-17k. Best deal out there IMO.

~~~
taneq
That's a pretty big drop, any idea why it goes down so much?

~~~
cobookman
You need to consider the federal & state rebates + dealer rebates. Once you do
that it's inline with out of pocket costs and normal car deprecation.

------
rdl
I wish they'd sell a Cadillac version (or at least a decent trim level) -- the
seats are horrible. I'd happily pay $5k more for $2k of better seats.
(Aftermarket upgrades are a pain.)

~~~
WorldMaker
The ELR, Cadillac's sort of coupe-sister to the Volt took about two years
after the Gen 1 Volt to show up in the market. Maybe a similar timeline plays
out for a Bolt sister in the Caillac line? Though with GM talking about going
mostly electric by 2023, maybe it will be a shorter wait than that.

------
rdl
I wonder if it makes more sense to lease vs. buy now (since self driving,
electric, etc. technology is progressing quickly) -- it seems like lease
discount/money factor isn't going down as quickly as it should with these
cars. (I've never bought a new car, and never leased as a car, but probably
will get a new EV as my next -- an S, 3, or Bolt.)

Owning is great if you keep the car for 8-12 years like I've done, but I can't
imagine any EV sold today being competitive in 5-10 years, even with software
upgrades.

~~~
tehwebguy
FYI leases on these just went from like $300+ / mo with a substantial down
payment to sub $150 / mo with effective 0 down in California with incentives.

~~~
einarvollset
Link?

~~~
tehwebguy
[https://leasehackr.com/blog/2017/10/16/bolt-ev-never-been-
be...](https://leasehackr.com/blog/2017/10/16/bolt-ev-never-been-
better-138-month-0-down)

This site is rarely updated unless there is a significant deal but the forum
is usually popping.

~~~
lern_too_spel
Nobody here qualifies for the $2500 CVRP rebate.

------
erik_seaberg
Hours per week charging is better than hours per day, but still only practical
for people who can run heavy wiring to a private garage. I keep wishing gas
station battery swaps were happening.

~~~
s0rce
I've seen people charging bolts and plug in hybrids on my street with the wire
run across the sidewalk (ie. from their home to the car parked on the street
out front). Its a low-traffic residential area (East Bay) and I think this
should be legal as it allows many people who have homes but no driveways to
own and charge EVs. Maybe there should be a special rubber wire cover to
protect the cord and so people don't trip. I hope someone doesn't trip and
fall, sue the owner and ruin it for everyone.

~~~
lostboys67
Hmm diy wiring just exposed to the elements and draped across the pavements
that's just asking for some one to get an accidental electric shock

~~~
lostboys67
As a quick google finds that

•Electrical hazards cause more than 300 deaths and 4,000 injuries each year
among the U.S. workforce.

•In the United States, 50,900 fires each year are attributed to electrical
failure or malfunction, resulting in 490 deaths and 1,440 injuries

Widespread introduction of electric car charging points will obviously
increase those numbers

~~~
s0rce
Pollution from internal combustion engines causes more deaths.

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013004548)

------
manoj_venkat92
Currently the cost of this EV is about 37K dollars. That's very high even for
US, right? We want more affordable ones and ones that look like glorified golf
carts. Bolt looks like a good car but how much market it can get in
India/Brazil is still questionable.

People in India are interested in taking up EVs if the cost is reduced thanks
to the unbreathable air in the major cities.

------
bogomipz
I am curious how does one go about disposing of an electronic vehicle like
this when the time comes - whether from an accident or just EOL'd? Is that
included in this price? Or does one need to factor that into the TCO of the
vehicle?

Given the batteries I'm guessing this requires special attention compared to a
combustion engine car.

~~~
hwillis
Well right now most Teslas go to salvage by a third party and some go to Tesla
recycling. I assume some number just go to normal scrapyards.

It's profitable to recycle the batteries so it isn't really a problem, and
isn't likely to be a problem, and there are existing paths to recycle vehicles
at EOL. For instance 90% of lead-acid batteries are recycled[1]. Again though
batteries are most useful simply as salvage, and it'll probably be that way
for a couple decades at least. The battery in a Tesla is so sturdily built
(very thick aluminum sidewalls and bottom plate, then filled with potting
epoxy) that they pretty easily survive crashes that total the car. Even "dead"
batteries still have significant life and storage left, and are still more
efficient, cost-effective and energy-dense than ni-cad or lead acid. Right now
they're mostly just used by hobbyists but I will not be surprised to see
companies popping up in a few years that buy old Teslas for $5,000-$10,000 and
sell stationary storage at close to $125-150/kWh. They scrap out the rest of
the car, install the battery modules into racks and sell them. At those prices
it will take quite a while for this to be a viable business, but once it is
it'll even compete with the used car market.

Worst case Tesla batteries can be safely sent to a landfill (they contain a
small amount of cobalt and nickel, but no other toxic elements), they should
just be drained first. Recycling is done with a hammer mill normally, but car
shredders are built to chew through two foot long cast iron blocks[2]. They
would have zero trouble with a Tesla, and probably wouldn't mind if it _was_
charged.

[1] [https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-
recycl...](https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-
program)

[2]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQNttxaG1qA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQNttxaG1qA)

~~~
jseliger
This is a good answer, and I'll add that some projects are already active:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/business/gm-and-nissan-
re...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/business/gm-and-nissan-reusing-old-
electric-car-batteries.html?_r=0) or [https://thinkprogress.org/why-used-
electric-car-batteries-co...](https://thinkprogress.org/why-used-electric-car-
batteries-could-be-crucial-to-a-clean-energy-future-6ab9a2308cdb) .

~~~
WorldMaker
My favorite anecdote I heard was that Nissan was blaming the slow development
of their PowerWall-esque project for secondary battery usage on how demand for
used EV car batteries currently far outstrips supply (because batteries are
staying on the road longer than some early Nissan projections).

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dmead
it's just not possible to own one of these on much of the east coast. i would
have probably bought this summer but seeing how abysmal the recharging story
is made me shy away.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
I don't get it, if you have charging at home, what's the issue? For those rare
trips where you go over 300km, just rent a cheap ICE vehicle.

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rm999
Full article without paywall: [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chevy-bolt-
meet-the-first-p...](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chevy-bolt-meet-the-
first-practical-mass-market-electric-vehicle-2017-10-22)

~~~
tbodt
You can bypass the WSJ paywall by tweeting a link to the article and clicking
on the link from Twitter. They check the Referer header.

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mtgx
Can we please stop calling hybrid vehicles "electric cars"?

This is also leading to ridiculous marketing tricks by carmakers where they
only make the tiniest amount of changes to "technically" be able to call their
cars an "electric car" while common sense-wise being as far away from an all-
electric car as possible. This means minimal changes to their own cars while
claiming they've "adopted the wave of the future."

So everyone -- especially the media -- please stop calling hybrid cars
electric vehicles. You're not doing the electric car future any favors.

~~~
avar
You appear to be confusing the Chevy Volt (hybrid) with the Chevy Bolt (all-
electric).

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tomohawk
Other than virtue signalling, what's the point of this car? I can get a Honda
Fit for half the price.

The Fit will have twice the range on a 5 minute fillup, instead of needing an
all night charge. This means I can be way more casual. This thing seems more
like a pet that I have to assiduously care for each and every day just to keep
it going.

And what's the range of this EV after 5 years of use? In the middle of the
winter?

It just doesn't seem very practical. With that Fit, I can hop in the car and
drive out to the mountains and do some hiking any time I want. I don't have to
specially charge it, timing my departure at peak charge.

~~~
imglorp
First of all, a use case might include someone who needs a local commuter and
grocery getter. Not everyone has 2 hour commutes. They might also be pondering
what happens if gas price ever reflects its true cost like it does in Europe.

Second, it's more than a virtue signal, for some. It's a commitment to make a
contribution where they can, whether anyone else knows or not.

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dayaz36
If you don't have a network of fast superchargers, then your EV is
automatically useless for road trips. Tesla is the only company that has built
out this network. No other EV should be taken seriously unless they've built
out theirs.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
But I want another solely for driving around town. The city I live in is
barely 15 kilometres (about 10 miles) across. Any of the currently available
EVs would suit my needs.

If I want to go out of town I'll take my turbo diesel camper.

~~~
lostboys67
So you get to feel all virtuous but don't mind blasting out Nox particulates
which is a major health hazard

