
Artificial blood developed for patients of any blood type, researchers say - ausjke
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201909290001.html
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braunshizzle
From what I understand (also heard about this in a podcast recently), they
take existing blood of any type and are able to modify the RH and type. So
blood still needs to be donated but it can be any Typs and RH as that is what
can be modified to any type and RH now.

~~~
maxerickson
I wonder if you heard about [https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/06/type-
blood-converted...](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/06/type-blood-
converted-universal-donor-blood-help-bacterial-enzymes) which is a different
line of research?

~~~
braunshizzle
Yeah that was it. Reviewing the initial article posted here, it's a different
line of research then I was thinking. However it looks like the success rate
is still only 60% (when testing on rabbits). The Wiley article on the grant
([https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427))
leaves clues that it's still derived from blood at some point and not entirely
artificial.

Still very interesting to see that we are making progress towards creating
fully artificial, non-type specific blood that anyone can use in a time of
need.

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ropiwqefjnpoa
On page#2 under "Preparation of HbVs and H12-(ADP)-liposomes" am I reading it
correctly that this "artificial" blood is still derived from blood?

~~~
m12k
Yeah, it sounds to me like it's 'artificial' in the same way that orange juice
made from concentrate is artificial.

~~~
m-p-3
There is a substantial benefit though:

 _The artificial blood can be stored at normal temperatures for more than a
year._

~~~
ohashi
That seems like a huge improvement, especially in countries or areas without
as much infrastructure or disaster scenarios.

~~~
CapricornNoble
Also combat medics, CASEVAC aircraft, and field hospitals. Not requiring
refrigeration is a HUGE benefit during the "Golden Hour" of casualty care.

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Mizza
Extremely freaking cool.

Any idea how this stuff is manufactured? Can it be produced cheaply enough to
potentially replace the entire blood donation system?

~~~
lancepioch
It seems like they are able to take existing blood and modify the type so that
even people that aren't universal blood donors can still have it used on
anybody that needs it.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
And, arguably more importantly, it has a shelf life of over a year at room
temp, as opposed to weeks/days even when refrigerated.

~~~
m-p-3
That is quite an achievement!

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gewa
Please read the paper carefully. They compared plasma without platelets (PPP,
platelet poor plasma) combined with their crafted liposomes to platelet rich
plasma (PRP). Therefore some donored plasma was needed, to have only a
difference in the platelet concentraton. Their artificialy synthesized
liposomes could then replace the platelets in the study.

~~~
gewa
Fig 3. A shows the major difference in bleeding time after administration of
the different therapies.

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njsubedi
>Platelets can be stored for four days if shaken to prevent solidification,
while red blood cells can be kept for 20 days at low temperatures.

I didn't know that the shelf life of blood is that short. Does this mean it is
possible that some portion of blood collected from "blood donation programs"
goes waste? Because, in our country (Nepal), dozens of such programs are
conducted by the Red Cross all around the country.

~~~
fermuch
A doctor in charge of a blood extraction campaign explained to me that this is
exactly the reason why there is a constant high demand of blood donors.
Between hospitals there are exchanges daily of blood (you might have a certain
blood type that another hospital needs right now), but a lot of blood does get
wasted, because of the short times it has.

They also separate blood in different kinds (platelets I think it was the
term) since it can be storaged for longer, but is not as useful as a full
blood transfer.

~~~
Invictus0
Do you know if there is any kind of inventory management system that helps
blood banks balance their supplies?

~~~
joquarky
I don't know the answer to this, but if they do, they should share this
information with the public so the public can be aware and more readily
volunteer when needed.

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toomuchtodo
Paper: [https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1111/trf.15427](https://sci-
hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1111/trf.15427)

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chrisco255
Does anyone know if this has the same "rejuvenating effects" that young blood
has on older patients?

~~~
SolaceQuantum
Could you link to something to provide context to your language? I've never
heard of young blood -> older patient rejuvination, or how such clinical
trials could be done safely. A pint of blood from a child is so much...

~~~
cevn
There was also a bit in Silicon Valley about how rich old entrepreneurs are
hiring young 20 yr old 'blood boys' to transfuse them blood at will. I wonder
how true it is.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
It was supposedly based on real events.

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platz
Historically, there have been many efforts in the past to make artificial
blood and IIRC they didn't turn out well for the patients.

It's a bit like the the body with vitamins. At first they thought vitamins
were all you needed - then they started discovering micro-nutrients.

Blood is pretty complex - does this include just the highest-order bits of
blood, or does it include _everything_ that blood has?

~~~
wbl
If I'm bleeding out and the blood bank is dry I'm not going to be so picky. A
few weeks later I'll have made my own to replace it.

~~~
LeonM
Obviously, any blood is better then no blood. But will you survive that long
on artificial blood if it doesn't contain all the right properties for your
body?

~~~
M2Ys4U
I would have thought that getting blood into trauma patients in the field
would be the main application for this?

Once back in a hospital setting they could switch to using real blood.

~~~
Blakestr
Paramedic here - two main areas of concern regarding blood in the
prehospital/emergency setting -

1 - Volume - You need enough fluid in a closed system to maintain pressure to
push that fluid.

2\. Oxygen carrying capacity - Oxygen binds with red blood cells which then
deliver it to every cell in your body.

Right now the prehospital setting can more or less manage #1, we have been for
a century with Normal Saline.

There is some stuff circulating (pun intended) regarding fluids that can
transport oxygen but it will be years before we can use it

~~~
Mountain_Skies
Does #1 mean that a person with high blood pressure is more able to survive
blood loss than a person with standard blood pressure?

~~~
ldoughty
Not a medic/doctor, but I would assume higher pressure would result in pushing
blood out of your system faster. This probably offsets gains

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toomuchtodo
Can a domain expert comment if this does away with the whole blood
donation/testing/storage/logistics system we currently have?

~~~
givinguflac
Once in full production, potentially. But currently it's only been tested on
rabbits. This could change the face of medicine if successful.

~~~
solidasparagus
> This could change the face of medicine if successful.

Why? Is blood shortage a serious problem in medicine?

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derefr
An “unlimited blood budget” might obviate hemodialysis in favour of just doing
a “blood change”, which—depending on how you do it—may protect the liver and
kidneys from things we can’t manage to pull out in a single hemodialysis pass.

It might also change the face of surgery. You know the phrase “he’s bleeding
out!” Well, who cares? We have blood pressure to spare, now. We could go
through a couple gallons during the surgery and it’d be fine. Just hook them
up to the tank. Take your time clamping/microsuturing/cauterizing instead of
rushing and making mistakes.

~~~
rscho
Uuuh no. Real blood unfortunately does more than transport oxygen. So "hook
them up to the tank" isn't a solution, and isn't a problem only in a surgeon's
mind.

~~~
TallGuyShort
What other functions of real blood do you have in mind, that this doesn't at
least have the potential to do well for a short period of time in emergencies?

~~~
rscho
Well, what about immune function? It's pretty interesting to have one when and
after you're bleeding out...

And before you tell me the potential is there, please realize that we
currently have only a very partial understanding of how that works, and it
would certainly require at least two decades of science to get right.

~~~
TallGuyShort
I was asking, not arguing.

~~~
rscho
Ok, sorry

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Geee
How long until we don't need lungs/heart/digestion/etc. any more? With
artificial blood it becomes much easier. I think we'll see the 'brain in a
vat' in 20 years. This is a huge step towards immortality.

~~~
9wzYQbTYsAIc
In the Year 2525.

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hanniabu
If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like this is to be used only in emergency
situations almost as if it's some type of "filler" that can help keep your
blood pressure up of you've lost an extreme amount of blood. It sounds like it
may provide more benefits than that, but I say "filler" because it doesn't
sound like you can replace all the blood in your body with this artificial
blood.

~~~
bryanculver
So although there might be “waste”, emergency preparedness shouldn’t be
forgotten about. It’s safer and better to have blood available when it’s
needed than to be begging for it.

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newsreview1
Read the team's actual findings here:
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427)

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selimthegrim
See also:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21110960](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21110960)

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johnkpaul
You think this was made for human patients with any blood type?

Fools.

This is True Blood™️.

~~~
francislavoie
I miss that show. So much fun.

~~~
johnkpaul
Me too! I was so disappointed that the spin off never happened.

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DesiLurker
awesome, thats a first step towards putting brain in a jar & super long
lifespans. if we can make it with all the nutrients to sustain it then we can
shed most of our meat-space parts and interface with neural AI fabric
directly.

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anonytrary
As an O-, this is good news.

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sajithdilshan
True Blood?

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vithalreddy
one more step towards a greater future.

~~~
taneq
One where vampires come out of hiding? :P

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danschumann
Aka "beyond meat for vampires"

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transitivebs
AMAZING news for vampires

~~~
entropicdrifter
Literally the premise of TrueBlood

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BillinghamJ
This is really interesting.

I wonder whether it truly is compatible with every single person, e.g. even
RH-null etc?

I also wonder whether religious groups who don't accept blood would
potentially accept this.

~~~
elboru
> I also wonder whether religious groups who don't accept blood would
> potentially accept this.

I understand they don’t accept blood from other people because they believe
the blood is tightly related to the soul. So if the blood is 100% artificial I
don’t think they would have a reason to not accept it, unless they find
another reason, and I’m sure some obscure group will find a reason to not
accept artificial blood either.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I had experience with one such group (Jehovah's Witnesses), so I can speak
only about them, but yes, I believe they would happily accept artificial
blood. The transfusion ban for JWs is related to their interpretation of
Bible's verses about blood as a symbol, and verses banning consumption of
blood. They already accept some blood-derived medication; generally, the
smaller subcomponent of blood something is, the more acceptable they find it.

~~~
JoelMcCracken
I understand this is a personal matter but I will not accept anything that I
know of having been derived from blood.

~~~
Blakestr
I'm curious about the range of derivation from blood. For example, if I took a
sample of your blood and made a product that was essentially cloning your
blood, would that be the same?

Some people's spiritual rejections lie more in the "we're playing God we
shouldn't do x" whereas what you are describing is something in regard to the
sanctity of the blood.

Actually to further my understand, would you be permitted to receive blood
that you yourself had donated and had been stored for your personal use in the
advent of a medical emergency? Again, I'm not trying to pry or question the
validity of your beliefs, just seeking to understand.

~~~
JoelMcCracken
Sure, no worries. I am happy to answer questions.

This is a complex question. Some things are clear, some are less so. Basically
in the Christian Greek scriptures I believe this is only mentioned once:
[https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-
bible/books/a...](https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-
bible/books/acts/15/#v44015020)

Here is more info: [https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-
about-...](https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-about-blood-
transfusion)

Our feelings are that blood is sacred, and once it leaves the body it should
return to the ground. Basically, blood is life, and life belongs to Jehovah.

Cloning blood would be wrong because its misusing something that has specific
guidelines around its use. If you could clone the blood without like actually
drawing blood from someone for the procedure, I guess that would be OK. This
is weird and I am not totally sure.

We would not be OK with storing our own blood for future use, as this would be
a kind of usage, and is contrary to the instructions to pour it out. And this
would also be considered consumption/not abstaining.

As I think about this, though, it makes me think about using blood in the
contexts of blood testing. Hmm.

Anyway I mean the scriptures give some instructions and we are doing our best
to extrapolate to other situations. Things aren't always cut and dry. We just
do our best to understand.

~~~
Blakestr
Thank you for taking the time to explain that - it seems the "abstain from
things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,from what is strangled, and
from blood" is obviously a literal interpretation. "From what is strangled and
from blood" I always took as profiting from war or suffering but I understand
that the challenges of scripture is determine what is literal and what is
metaphorical - there's also the concept of what is an "idol" and how is it
polluting.

I appreciate you clarifying this. I think I understand a bit more, that there
are some aspects of medical science construed as idolatrous, as perhaps
glorifying an institution of man and not God.

Have you ever heard of any talk of a ceremony that would somehow reconcile
these elements? Again I'm ignorant of JW doctrine and priests don't seem as
prevalent, but I'm wondering if there could ever be room for some type of
transfusion ceremony that allowed for this, in the precense of correct
scripture and religious authority, that was "in the service to Jehovah." Sort
of a "Deo volente" thing.

~~~
JoelMcCracken
For us, I don't think idolatry factors into the decision re: blood. It is more
like those are three things to abstain from.

To your other question, no, we do not have any sort of ceremony like that. But
tbh avoiding blood transfusions is nbd nowadays. There are alternatives.

