

X.org lost $5000 from their Paypal account - plaes
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg/42541/focus=42548

======
seldo
Forget PayPal, what about the 5 grand that "vanished into the Brazilian
banking system"? That seems like the kind of line-item that merits
explanation.

~~~
_delirium
Messages later in the thread say that it was money wired to two Brazilians
that they were sponsoring to fly to the conference with the travel
scholarships, that never got to the intended recipients. Unfortunately, money
wires frequently have problems like that. The security is basically entirely
at the receiving point, which is supposed to not hand over the wired cash to
anyone except the person it was wired to, and is supposed to properly check
IDs and such. But if someone else gets it, either because of lax checking,
fake documentation, or unscrupulous employees at the bank, it's basically
gone; unlike with credit cards and such, you can't chargeback a wire transfer
(which is why 419 and Craigslist scammers ask for money to be sent that way).

~~~
kevingadd
After trying to pay a contractor via wire once and losing hundreds of dollars
in fees after his bank botched the transaction (mercifully, I didn't lose the
entire amount), I will never wire money again. I would recommend the same to
anyone else. You don't even have to be dealing with a bad bank; it's just not
a safe way to send money to anyone.

The funniest part is I only tried a wire transfer because I didn't want to use
PayPal. After that disaster, I ended up choosing the devil I knew and sending
all his payments via PayPal after that.

~~~
jordanb
Postal money orders are much more secure if you're sending money within the
US. I understand they can be a bit dodgy too though internationally, depending
on the professionalism of the national postal service.

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KirinDave
Does anyone trust PayPal at all anymore? If you have _ever_ needed technical
support from them you'll learn to hate them immediately. I once spent 2 days
trying to talk to a real human about deductions from my checking account that
had no corresponding line item in paypal. I finally got a human who said he'd
call me back, and never did.

I eventually got it sorted, months later. Eff paypal.

------
dangrossman
I'd like to hear a little more detail than "$5k lost to paypal". When PayPal
"decides you are scammers", they hold your funds for 180 days like any other
payment service provider (as Visa and MasterCard operational regulations say
they should, 180 days is the maximum time most banks allow for chargebacks)...
then they return the money (less any chargebacks) to you. The money isn't
lost, it's temporarily held.

~~~
scw
Paypal's operating rules may have changed, but I've similarly been bitten by
money lost due to Paypal.

Here's how the scam works: someone buys something from you on eBay, pays you
via Paypal. You diligently send off the good, and delivery confirmation shows
it was received. The buyer waits till the last day possible to report the item
as not received, Paypal puts your account in the red and you're stuck with the
bill.

~~~
dangrossman
You provide the tracking number of the shipment and you automatically get the
money back. You don't even have to prove anything. Tracking number showing you
shipped _any_ package to the buyer's listed address is all you need to be
covered by the Seller Protection Policy. If you actually sent them an empty
box, they'll have to sue, because PayPal will let you keep that money.

~~~
smokey_the_bear
I bought a stolen laptop off ebay. Told paypal it was stolen and they gave me
all the money back, just told me to keep the paperwork from sending it back to
the owner incase the seller decided to object. I never heard from the seller.

~~~
lzm
So, did you find the original owner?

~~~
smokey_the_bear
yeah, very easily. I sent the laptop back to him.

------
bobbyi
x.org vs. x.com

~~~
plaes
That sounds like an awesome court case.

------
metamemetics
What is the best alternative to paypal for accepting donations or small
payments for content on a site?

~~~
FooBarWidget
In my opinion, there are none. Paypal sucks but it's also the best. I tried
switching to alternatives for a while, like Paystone, E-Gold, etc. Sales
plummeted as a result, they're too confusing for customers.

------
kiba
Warning: Confirmation Bias Hazard Ahead

Please do not forget to take into account all the other money that flow
through the paypal channel, successfully.

~~~
kiba
Given that it is easy for human beings to fall into, I thought I might warn
people about it.

Of course, it is "blindingly obvious", but that's because it is hindsight. If
I have not post this warning, will a Hacker News reader goes on an rant or
ancedote about the evil of Paypal? Who knows.

P.S, I recently got high off reading Black Swan, which provide a fresh
perspectives on things in addition to what I simply already know.

~~~
george_morgan
Thank you for trying to protect us mere human beings from ourselves.

~~~
kiba
Naw, I am just a mere human being who just happens to be self-aware of his
limitation at this time.

I deceive myself if I think I am not vulnerable to the confirmation bias.

------
lsc
Hm. paypal randomly invalidates payments, but as far as I can tell, if I don't
get the money, the person sending the money gets it. Hm.

~~~
holdenc
They do this, but apparently they randomly freeze funds too.

------
colinplamondon
Haven't they heard of QuickBooks? This really shouldn't be this complicated
for them to know where money went.

~~~
p858snake
Does Quickbooks have a Linux based version these days? Shouldn't that be
GNUCash?

------
xs
how does x.org and x.com have 1 letter domains but b.org and z.org etc are
unavailable domains?

~~~
btn
Because they were registered before IANA reserved all available single-letter
domains in 1993.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-
level_doma...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-level_domain)

------
fmeyer
never trust any Brazilian financial institution, they are lazy, bureaucratic
and profit driven. whenever I need something "odd" from those institutions I
spend about 4 or 5 days on phone calls and in-site meetings.

~~~
rglullis
The Brazilian _banking system_ is actually pretty good. That's not to say that
some _banks_ are bad. State-owned banks are usually like you describe, but
private banks usually work very well. Bear in mind also that in Brazil
financial institutions are the ones who invest the most on IT, by far.

After two years living in the U.S and having banks charging you outrageous
fees for the most idiotic reasons, or having transactions taking almost one
week to be completed, I can confidently say the Brazilian system has is pretty
much first-class.

~~~
LaPingvino
It's just quite annoying that the Brazilian banks are not in the IBAN system,
and only some banks work internationally at all. There are a lot of regional
banks you can't even use to pay in another region of the country...

~~~
hussong
I was mildly surprised to learn that US banks don't participate in IBAN
either.

