
Man Posing as Delivery Person Hides Resumes in a Box of Donuts - cft
http://abc7ny.com/careers/man-hides-resume-in-box-of-donuts/1545729/
======
scottbcovert
I actually met Lukas a few days ago, very nice guy. I was in San Francisco for
Salesforce's Dreamforce conference and was staying at a shared AirBnB where he
was my roommate for the week.

One night there was a party hosted by Salesforce that I thought Lukas was
planning on attending so when I noticed it seemed like he was turning in soon
I asked him what changed his mind; he told me he had an interview in the
morning with ABC. Not knowing his situation I assumed it was for his startup
so I told him congratulations and asked what kind of work his company did. He
saw I was confused by his answer that he was actually looking for a job so he
just showed me a clip from Good Morning America that talked about the story
and said it was probably easier to understand if I just watched the video.

I have a feeling I'll be seeing him again next year--leading a session on
marketing at the conference.

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ryandrake
File this under "more evidence that hiring is broken". It's just so silly that
companies set up elaborate HR departments and job postings and internal
recruiters that collect resumes, and then when you look at how they actually
hire it's through popularity/celebrity, friends of friends, and stunts like
this.

~~~
csallen
I don't disagree with your statement that "hiring is broken", but the evidence
you use to come to that conclusion is not particularly convincing. It's
essentially, "There are multiple hiring channels."

~~~
dredmorbius
What are the mechanisms of those channels?

What the resume-in-pizza-boxes channel offers over, say, the resumes-in-email
channel, is _a lot fewer resumes_. You've got some intention signalling in the
RIPB version (it's expensive in terms of time and other committments), but low
informational signalling _otherwise_ as to overt qualifications, outside some
general concepts (hustle, motivation, time availability / opportunity costs,
charisma, confidence, or simply having heard of the trick somewhere).

There are a bunch of selection hueristics whose primary benefit is _they
eliminate a large component of the choice process_. You'd do fairly well in
simply randomly sampling from amongst the submissions, or applying some very
rudimentary filters to eliminate the most obviously bad choices.

This is why mechanisms such as racial, gender, age, and cultural bias are so
common. They're easy to apply, aren't _entirely_ wrong (relatively homogeneous
groups tend to operate better than nonhomogeneous ones, though there are many
arguments about resilience and creativity/diversity), _and hugely reduce the
decisionmaking costs of the selector._

Unfortunately, knowledge / infotech / creative work hinges hugely on
intangibles which are quite difficult to effectively communicate, _especially_
to someone (say, an HR flunky) not intimately familiar with the field.

Toss in a ton of employer biases and control incentives (e.g., anti-poaching,
anti-union, and similar concerns) and the situation starts getting messy
quickly. Sure, there might be some alterative opportunities created as a
result, but these tend to have far less commercial/financial potential and
viability.

~~~
ryandrake
> There are a bunch of selection hueristics whose primary benefit is they
> eliminate a large component of the choice process. You'd do fairly well in
> simply randomly sampling from amongst the submissions, or applying some very
> rudimentary filters to eliminate the most obviously bad choices.

I'm reminded of the hiring manager that randomly tosses into the shredder 90%
of incoming resumes. "I don't want to hire someone who's unlucky!"

~~~
dredmorbius
If that 90% is selected randomly, it's at least not a _biasing selection_.

I'd suggest a below-bar elimination check (e.g., spelling, gross formatting),
and an high-level check in case, say, Ted Ts'o happens to be applying. Take
the bulk of largely undifferentiated but not obviously bad resumes, shuffle
them, and select randomly from them. Pick your sample, apply your assessments,
and proceed.

The low-cost primary selection, and the unbiased secondary selection, leave
the expensive selection process (resume screen, phone screen, interviews,
background / portfolio assessment, etc.) with a tractable number of candidates
to deal with.

Aeon's "How to Choose" is an excellent article on the use of randomness:
[https://aeon.co/essays/if-you-can-t-choose-wisely-choose-
ran...](https://aeon.co/essays/if-you-can-t-choose-wisely-choose-randomly)

------
holografix
This is a brilliant insight into how little I understand the world.

If I was applying to the same company I'd be VERY upset this guy gets an
interview.

If I was the person he got delivered the donuts I'd curse him out of the
office and tell him to apply like everybody else.

What makes him special or give him the right to basically break the rules and
disrespect everyone who tries their best to get through the recruiting door?
What would happen if everyone acted the same and started stalking execs and
managers trying to "serve" them whimsical resumés?

Clearly I'm the one who's strange since everyone else thinks it's great...
maybe it's a cultural thing?

~~~
davemel37
First, he was applying for a marketing position. A position that demands
creativity and the ability to stand out and be noticed...so, essentially he
proved himself with this gimmick. In other words, this wasnt just a gimmick
but rather a demonstration of his skills.

It just like an engineer getting interviewed after finding a bug in your code.

On a more critical note, applying for a job is a zero sum game. Only one
person gets hired. If you are more concerned with rules and respecting other
applications by not standing out, you are just playing the game poorly. Your
job as an applicant is to a)get noticed and b)beat out everyone else for the
job.

All this is to say that if followong the rules are so important in your
organization, this guy is a bad fit. If it requires scrappiness, creativity,
and "hacker" mentality, it is a perfect fit.

In this case, as a marketer, it was brilliant!

~~~
holografix
Thanks for your comment you make a good point in that he is applying for a
marketing job and his attitude can be perceived as a great example of
guerrilla marketing.

However I think you're treading a thin line by focusing solely on the desired
outcome of one individual. If everyone thought like that'd it'd be a race
towards some pretty unethical and/or immoral behaviours.

This "what matters is that we got ours" mentality can lead to a lot of
resentment.

But again thank you for your response.

~~~
davemel37
>If everyone thought like that'd it'd be a race towards some pretty unethical
and/or immoral behaviours.

Strategies like this have been around for decades, yet somehow most people are
NOT willing to put in the extra work to execute on it.

Donny Deutsch did something similar, "Donny pitched a TV account, Tri-State
Pontiac dealers. (Just to get into the pitch, Donny sent car parts to the home
of the Pontiac rep. He sent a fender with a note that read, “We’ll cover your
rear end.”
[http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/n_8669/](http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/n_8669/)

There was that fellow who ran linkedin ads to get investors attention to get
into Angelpad [http://thehustle.co/the-linkedin-hack-that-made-
me-120000](http://thehustle.co/the-linkedin-hack-that-made-me-120000)

8 Years ago I was trying to get an interview at Neo@Ogilvy as a search
marketer. I sent my resume several times with no results. I spent the extra
time to really think about what would make me stand out and I designed my
resume to look like a search results page and got a call from them within 10
hours of applying. This was because the key to advertising design is imagery
that supports the message. It demonstrated my appreciation of the nuances of
effective advertising.

Direct mail marketers have been promoting Lumpy Mail or 3D Mail as a way to
make sure your mailer gets noticed, opened, and read. (i.e. putting bulky
thinks in the mail so It can't be put on the bottom of a junk mail pile.)

These are not really even hacks, it is one of the rules of the game. If you go
the extra mile demonstrating you care enough to stand out, you earned the
attention you get.

I don't think these tactics are a slippery slope at all. It's no different
than Sam Altman flying across the country to meet a company (that didnt want
to meet with him) that was about to sign with a competitor, or PokerShare.com
training a Chimp to play poker and bring it on tour.

There is a world of difference between being clever and being unethical.

Edit: Grammar

~~~
holografix
Thanks for your response, between your comments and someone's previous answer
it's clear how I disregarded how a Marketing professional would view this.

I find your résumé example acceptable and easy to understand, by what you did,
I as a recruiter looking for someone with graph design skills would get a
better understanding of your skills.

The direct mail and poker playing monkey examples I find poor - for me they
get classified as the "who screams louder" type tactics they don't add
anything of value, they just benefit the individual who wants an outcome of
their target.

Someone else here said something about how "Analytical types" find comfort in
rules and I have definitely been described as an analytical even though I'm
very comfortable breaking certain rules (bureaucracy mostly) I'm uncomfortable
feeling like a "cheater", in other words: I want to deserve.

Also coming from a 3rd world country where a lot of benefits, specially in
government, are achieved through bribery and nepotism I'm probably overly
sensitive about it.

Jesus! Enough about me though!

~~~
cestith
I think this particular candidate was comfortable breaking the usual hiring
process as he felt that was bureaucratic.

I don't think the cost of a box of donuts amounts to bribery in Silicon
Valley, and he's not a friend or family member so it's not nepotism.

What he did was get noticed, even though it's a bit of a gimmick. Do you
remember the Million Dollar Homepage? That worked because it was a novel idea.
Nobody made it big on a copycat site. Similarly, this fellow stood out and
that got him interviews. However if lots of people start trying this same
method it'll fail quickly as a means to get interviews.

I do think sending a portfolio of work is much better than just a resume. This
guy made himself part of his portfolio, which for a marketing position is a
great thing but which won't scale to every candidate showing up with donuts
for every position. Thankfully programmers can send code and graphic designers
can send images.

------
rmason
Guy's probably here on a tourist visa and won't be able to convert even if he
receives an offer.

He needs to be starting a company. Philippe Kahn started Borland while he was
illegal alien. He got to a $500 million run rate without venture capital! It
was only when Borland was going public that he was able to obtain a green
card!

[http://articles.latimes.com/print/1992-02-23/business/fi-511...](http://articles.latimes.com/print/1992-02-23/business/fi-5118_1_borland-
international-chairman-philippe-kahn)

~~~
nchelluri
Won't he get sponsored for a visa if he gets an offer?

I mean, it's not a must that a company would offer sponsorship, but if they
didn't I think there'd be no use in an offer.

Good story about the Borland guy though.

~~~
withdavidli
If it's an H1B they would have to apply, submit on Apr 1st next year, see if
he gets the VISA through our lottery system, and start around October if he
gets it. It might be faster if the company has an international office and he
can work from there.

~~~
mitoyarzun
After all the press he got, I'm sure that an O-1 visa is possible.

------
lloyddobbler
My start in marketing was as a professional actor - where you spend 98% of
your time doing marketing. If you do that well, you get to go to an audition.
If you do that well, you get to go do your real job and get paid. (Eventually
I moved into the tech world.)

Funny thing - this technique is as old as Hollywood. I've heard of tons of
similar stories over the years. Heck, Stephen Furst (Flounder from Animal
House) got his role when the producer saw his headshot in a pizza box.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Furst#As_actor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Furst#As_actor)

~~~
Alex3917
Using publicity stunts and showing up at people's offices with food are both
classic job seeking tactics. But sneaking into people's offices dressed as a
delivery person is a terrible idea. Some people might be receptive to it, but
a lot of other people are going to feel unsafe and like their physical space
has been violated.

------
mherdeg
This sounds like pretty high-quality penetration testing; maybe he should
pivot his career and work in security.

~~~
eridius
I don't think so. People let delivery guys in so they can deliver something.
They don't let delivery guys in and then leave them wholly unsupervised to do
whatever the hell they want.

~~~
dredmorbius
Having personally witnessed a delivery guy walking out with a half-dozen or so
engineering laptops (I realised this seconds too late, after walking into the
office area), tucked into his messenger bag, it's been known to happen. Lax
security was a confounding issue.

Also: that guy had brass balls.

~~~
eridius
It may be known to happen, but what I'm saying is the act of letting a
delivery person into a building does not equate to a lapse in security.

~~~
dredmorbius
It is an attack surface. An awareness of that fact is helpful.

------
lucaspiller
Just in case anyone is wondering about the startup in Lithuania, it's a car
sharing scheme called CityBee:

[http://www.citybee.lt/en/](http://www.citybee.lt/en/)

I've used various schemes around the world, but this has the best selection of
cars and is the fastest growing. They now have over 500 cars, which given the
size of Lithuania is crazy. Their emails have a real personal feel which is no
doubt down to Lukas work!

------
tracker1
This is fairly brilliant for a marketing guy. What it comes down to, is he got
the attention of the people he was trying to reach. In the end, it's like the
guys that do _very_ targeted advertising on LinkedIn and Facebook for similar
goals. If you can reach the selective audience you are trying to for the job,
in creative ways, odds are you can reach that company's audience as well.

------
losteverything
I'd hire this person just to improve his life for a while. Hiring him will
probably help him more than someone else.

If you can hire or promote or help someone, then do so.

Recently had to choose to promote either a single mom (stable home) 11 yrs in
the job or a part-time just graduated woman renting a house for free in
exchange for child care. Both were equally qualified. Which would be helped
more? The part time student. Once promoted into FT position she gets benefits.
Easy choice. Plus, the company stresses helping employees as #1 priority.

Even if this guy does not work out and he is termed after 90 days, he is
better off trying and I improved his lot.

------
nchelluri
I would never be brave enough to try something like this.

~~~
vecter
Why not? The only thing preventing you from doing this is your self-formed
limited beliefs in what you can or cannot do. You could literally decide to
just do this and start doing this tomorrow.

Don't sell yourself short, everyone else is already doing that for you.

~~~
zhemao
And ... uh ... legality? If either Postmates or the companies he infiltrated
took this the wrong way, he could end up in a bit of trouble.

~~~
vecter
You're missing the forest for the trees. You can replace "brave enough to do
this" with "brave enough to play at that open mic night" or "brave enough to
talk to that cute girl in class".

In all cases, the reason that the OP doesn't believe he can do this has to do
solely with his false limiting self beliefs about his abilities.

~~~
smallnamespace
> You can replace "brave enough to do this" with "brave enough to play at that
> open mic night" or "brave enough to talk to that cute girl in class".

Seems like the potential downside to doing this is a lot higher than the
examples you gave.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Not really. At worst you get arrested for trespassing and Postmates sues you.
But the unlikelyness of both seems sky high to me. It's not like impersonating
a police officer.

~~~
smallnamespace
I agree that the odds of any one place giving him trouble are low, but he hit
up 40 different places.

If just _one_ of them decided to call the cops, he'd be arrested, and that
might end up with him being banned from re-entering the US. If each place only
has a 1% chance of calling it in, we're talking about cumulative odds around 1
in 3.

That seems like a pretty bad worst case.

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dev_by_force
This been done on advertising field by interns since ages... come on.

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erdevs
Gimmicks make for very poor hiring filters, though they make for great article
clicks.

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dammitcoetzee
Huh. If this works I should be way more aggressive about finding a ME/EE
oriented product design engineer job in SF.

------
Waterluvian
That "Hi" after the headline just sucked all of the momentum out of it for me.

------
tdburn
Can't tell of this is an onion article or real life

~~~
jedmeyers
It's a clever marketing from Postmates. He's been working for them all along.

~~~
bemmu
After reading "Trust Me, I'm Lying", I can't help but view stuff I read online
even vaguely relating to a company in this light.

~~~
franciscop
Searched for it thinking it was a blog post; turns out it's a book I can buy.
Hope you are not related nor getting a royalty from each sale (;

~~~
jedmeyers
Doubt it. However I wouldn't trust any of his posts on how to get some tasty
candy from Japan, cause he is the leading supplier of those.

