
Warning signs in a non-technical cofounder (can you spot them?) - nathanh
http://blog.hirelite.com/warning-signs-in-a-non-technical-cofounder-ca
======
patio11
Assume you achieve total world domination and they make a movie about you.
Visualize the narrative arc. Would you think "This guy deserves to be the hero
or co-hero of this movie?" If not, you don't want them to be a cofounder.

There are fairly few movies where someone bestows money, a name or an idea on
the interesting characters and ends up being really important to the plot.

You want Aragorn, not Elrond, as your cofounder. (Naturally I think of geeks
as hobbits.)

P.S. Your co-founder should say the same about you. If you're a tool rather
than a partner, fleeeeeeeee.

~~~
lucasjake
I'm undecided about "visualizing the movie they make about you." I think every
startuper who has seen "The Social Network" or "Pirates of the Silicon Valley"
has done this.

However, I'm leaning on considering it an anti pattern because it borders on a
pathological amount of ego.

A better rubric in my mind is, "Can I picture this person in my daily life,
for the next decade?" as a slightly more sane variant of this test.

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joshklein
> Multiple startups in the works? No experience in your startup's
> domain/market? Poor interactions with other [non-technical] people? "Build
> it and they will come" mentality?

These happen to be wonderful warning signs for a technical co-founder, too.

------
SurfScore
I think that this article was supposed to illustrate a multitude of problems
that you could encounter, obviously if ALL of these happened with one person
you'd run like the plague.

I think the biggest indicator, that isn't necessarily on the list, is if they
have learned to code AT ALL. They don't need to be a master coder, even if the
know some basic JavaScript and C, and they learned it for the startup, at
least it shows they're willing to put in the effort, and are attempting to
meet you on some level. I don't see how someone can start a company and be
completely in the dark about how it's built.

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shazow
Another warning sign I've found: They start doing other things, like checking
their phone, while you're answering their question.

Even if you disregard that it's a disrespectful and rude thing to do during a
conversation, this person is trying to sign you up for a major role in their
future and already he can't focus on the task at hand.

The best founders I've had the pleasure of meeting are usually the most
respectful and attentive people. Not only do they completely focus on what
you're saying but they make you feel like there's no one more important right
now than you.

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arethuza
I once had dealings with a chap who wanted me as a co-founder but I had worked
out that he only had two modes of operating with people: "best friend" or
"ongoing litigation".

Fortunately I said no.

~~~
its_so_on
wrong move. you should have become his best friend, you'd be rich now.

------
nathanh
One thing I've been wondering a lot about is anti-warning signs - things that
turn technical cofounders off that aren't necessarily bad things.

The first thing that comes to mind is arrogance. It certainly puts me off, but
it seems like you need a good dose of arrogance to think you can solve a
daunting problem.

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dfield
Wow, I literally had this exact same conversation last week. (Minus the domain
name / equity portion.)

Warning sign 0: they're asking you to be a technical co-founder _before_ you
know anything about the product.

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j45
I generally run from non-software people wanting to be in the software
business but not even want to learn or try to understand how software is
built.

You might not do construction yourself but the more you know the better it
will turn out being the non-technical general contractor.

I like the one rule a-lot: Ignore them if they have no expertise in the area
they're wanting to startup in. Its fine if they don't program.

If you do get involved with a non-tech cofounder, don't take equity or
deferred income. Startups are a little like dating in the beginning, there's
no need to get married before you ever work together. Someone should pay for
your time instead of expecting it for free.

If being paid for your time is working well it's easy to figure out ownership
after. If the non-tech cofounder is not willing to put his money where his
mouth is, it might be full of something else.

Even as a developer, when I've gotten help on an idea from a friend or
colleague I always pay them and say do as much as you can for me, this is my
money out of my own pocket. Since us developers are a egalitarian helpful
bunch often they want to just help as friends but I make sure to pay because
it's just respecting their time and saying hey, if this goes somewhere, we can
always figure that out. I've never lost a friendship/colleage relationship
this way.

------
marketer
Another one is not being good at marketing.

Marketing can be a huge grind. Being able to build buzz about your product, or
get mentioned in the press, or find customers is very time-consuming and
requires a lot of creativity.

~~~
nickpinkston
You know you've got a shitty co-founder if they can't build a product or sell
one. Real hustlers make it happen - "idea guys" need not apply.

~~~
bane
I agree, there's nothing that can drain the life out of a company with limited
resources than the infinite time suck of an idea fairy on the loose.

------
ezl
_(having just wireframes eliminates ~0 risk)_

Wireframes might not eliminate risk, but "has wireframes" is a great metric to
add to the list for selecting a bizdev guy. The leap from "idea" to
"screens/wireframes that outline how the fantasy product should function" is
surprisingly difficult for a lot of non tech cofounders.

The willingness and ability to even create the wireframes with sensible
description of how the product works separates the top 10%.

If someone comes to you with just an idea tell them to build the wireframes,
you'll be surprised how few people come back.

------
paulnelligan
Are there any signs for non-technical co-founders that we should take as
'positives' - like this guy knows what he's talking about ??

I guess the one that springs to mind for me is someone who has previously
launched some startups and had some success ...

~~~
larrik
I look for "guy in some field thinks app/site is desperately needed by that
field." This implies domain knowledge and existing relationships for target
customers.

That's actually pretty rare, in my experience. But, it's how I've seen several
non-tech companies start, basically.

The non-technical co-founder should BE that guy. Not _know_ that guy. I get
THAT one a lot.

~~~
paulnelligan
I actually WAS that guy, but I couldn't find my technical co-founder - so I
just became a technical founder ... took me a few years, but I'm there now ;)

~~~
tchock23
Same here... I had domain expertise but wasn't technical so I just sucked it
up and learned. It's taken me a few years, but it's well worth it.

Looking back, I think that's the only way to go. That, or at least learn
enough to have a decent conversation with technical people so when you ask
them to do something, you know how big of a pain in the ass you are being.

------
Macsenour
I'm a game Producer and I get stopped twice a week by people who have the next
Angry Birds, and just want me to program it. I call these people "glad
handers". They're glad to shake my hand and take 40% for an idea.

------
ja27
They want you to go full-time on it but they won't.

~~~
j45
If they pay you full time could it be a bit different?

------
yangtheman
I can't agree more about prior experiences of working at a tech startup. He
was not a co-founder, but I happened to work for a single non-technical
founder at his startup. He spoke all the right language - about building
engineer-focused, hacker culture, but he really didn't understand and couldn't
lead awesome engineers effectively.

------
thejana
As a nontechnical cofounder myself, I agree on all points. I've seen these
kids at every tech meetup. Unfortunately, early on I've seen a few of these
"qualities" in technical cofounders too.

This post reiterates a few keys points we all know. Don't hire or work with
assholes (an entire book on it), and focus.

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philwelch
I'm curious. Doing a startup is kind of an intense all-in undertaking. Why on
earth would you even consider doing this with some non-technical stranger you
met at a meetup? Isn't that like going to a swing dancing class and proposing
to the first woman that catches your eye?

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dsrikanth
"Just need someone to build it now" mentality "... and build it for me now"

Boy, how well I can relate to this!! Web development is not a magic bullet.
Why is it hard to understand that fact..

------
tko
always be aware that each of you have complimenting skill sets...its pointless
having two cofounders who can do the same thing..

Also, be aware of your target market and understand the necessary government
rules and regulations so that they don't derail your startup.

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pitdesi
Is it actually true that there are founders of companies who haven't bought a
domain name? I find that piece of this to be quite silly.

GoDaddy buys superbowl ads - buying a domain is very mainstream.

I have seen the "multiple startups in the works" thing though- that is
definitely not a good sign.

~~~
Tangurena
I've come across this exact thing before (where the techie has to do it all -
including spending $10 at godaddy). Always with folks who convince my family
to get hold of me.

The cure has been to get the relative involved in the fiasco, where I'll do
the work, but they have to be involved. By the time all the poop hits the fan,
they finally got a hefty dose of what we have to go through.

In the most recent one-of-these, the serial entrepreneur brainwashed my sister
into believing that his new idea does _everything_ and will make us all
millionaires. His previous adventures resulted in crashes (or paranoid
delusions that the oil companies killed off his customers), and he whined
about the folks who "left him stranded". He didn't own the domains of the
previous adventures. He didn't own this domain (I made my sister set this one
up, so it is hers). As this project got closer to something sellable, he got
crazier and crazier and then decided to dilute my sister and my shares (1/3
each) to 1/20th each as he wanted to bring on "friends" he had shafted during
previous misadventures. The sad thing is that my sister used to be a developer
before getting trapped in a cult, so she should have known better. But now she
does.

~~~
dasil003
Trying to put 2 and 2 together here... this "serial entrepreneur" was a cult
leader? Or was that unrelated?

~~~
Tangurena
Sorry. No. He is not the cult leader. Most of her friends for the past few
years have been folks who've also left the same cult, so there might be a
common background, but no. This isn't the cult trying to take her for a few
hundred more thousand dollars.

------
mikeryan
This HN meme is getting a little tired.

