
Why I’m Bullish on the New York Startup Ecosystem - crunchynuts1
https://medium.com/parsa-vc/why-im-bullish-on-the-rapidly-growing-new-york-startup-ecosystem-510a11e6a265
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code4tee
The NYC scene seems much more grounded than Silicon Valley. As others have
said all the big tech companies are already here but, unlike Silicon Valley,
anyone who is anyone in tons of other industries is also in NYC. That keeps
the focus more on doing meaningful things with tech vs the tech for tech’s
sake pattern that Silicon Valley seems stuck in.

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gammateam
I'm glad to see it is growing. I was in NYC for the first half of the decade
and the "grounded" nature of NYC was its pitfall.

Its not the lack of 'tech for tech's sake', its the lack of willing backers,
the lack of meaningful VCs, the lack of 'pay it forward' mentality, the lack
of historical counterculture having any meaningful impact amongst the old
world elitists.

If that's changing then NYC will offer an unparalleled opportunity that
Silicon Valley could have difficulty keeping up with. I still suspect that
there are like 3 VC portfolios all named Union Square Ventures that any
project has to conform to, and if it doesn't, FUHGET ABOUT IT

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electricslpnsld
> the lack of historical counterculture having any meaningful impact amongst
> the old world elitists

Hm? In want sense? New York City has spawned numerous countercultural
movements. The beats, punk rock, hip hop, all originated in NYC.

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pesmhey
I mean, it's almost like arguing with someone whether or not the sky is blue.
The idea the NYC has no meaningful counterculture is not only wrong, but
ridiculously wrong at that. The Stonewall riots happened there for Christ's
sake. It'd be sort of petulant to dismiss the cultural movements that have
come out of NYC. Actually, you'd have to be really,I mean, unimaginably out-
of-touch with reality to dismiss NYC counterculture.

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gammateam
It simply didn't contribute to its broader/VC/tech industries like how Silicon
Valley was shaped, rendering this entire semantically debate moot.

Every place that wants to be the next silicon valley, or Silicon "lesser
geographical/architectural structure", simply can't do it without the
generational culture to support it.

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dawhizkid
I think what it boils down to is that startup ecosystems outside of SF now
have the upper edge when it comes to hiring relative to Bay Area startups
because you aren't competing against large tech giants who can outpay what you
can afford to pay by 2-3x. Sure, you are competing against satellite offices
of FB/Google/etc but it's on a much smaller scale. The opportunity cost for an
engineer to take a gamble on a small startup is therefore smaller, so
companies can attract relatively better talent in these markets.

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mynegation
You are also competing against all the banks and hedge funds

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dawhizkid
Sure, though the supply of developer jobs at an elite HF/algo trading firm are
much smaller so not really a meaningful factor IMO. I don't think the same
people who would want to work at a GOOG/FB or startup are the same people who
would be happy on the IT team at a bank. I know places like Cap 1 and Amex
have growing digital teams though AFAIK their comp is not comparable to what
you'd make at a large tech co, meaning the opportunity cost is not as high as
Bay Area.

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user5994461
It's not any smaller. There are as many developers working in top banks as
there are working in the big 4.

In London and NYC, there is a rather aggressive competition between web and
finance and startups. Startups can't compete on anything and they get peanuts
when it comes to employees.

It's actually the same people working everywhere. A typical office building
has 10 000 seats, there is a role for you where you will be happy.

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doctorpangloss
> The most famous recent “mafia” in the Bay Area is from PayPal, which
> included Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Roelof Botha, Reid Hoffman, and Keith
> Rabois, among others shown below.

> New York’s most notable “mafia” is from Gilt Groupe...

I'm not sure if Gilt Groupe is really comparable to PayPal. I'm skeptical that
it ever will be.

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georgewsinger
SV's main advantage: talent/investor network effects & shared knowledge of how
to scale businesses. Two big problems with SV: (i) high rent; (ii) groupthink.

The problem with NYC is that you still have the same problems as SV (in
particular: high rent + groupthink), but with lower network effects & shared
knowledge of how to scale businesses. On top of that NYC seems to also face
the following additional problems: (i) lack of imagination for deep tech; (ii)
a shorter-term orientation.

The advantages that NYC has: (i) industry-specific network effects (finance,
fashion, etc); (ii) a superior skyline/aesthetic.

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closeparen
Living in a premium/central part of NYC costs about the same as living in a
premium/central part of SF, but New York has drastically better transit
connectivity to more affordable outlying areas. The high rents are more
escapable.

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xaranke
I don't know if you can have a successful startup ecosystem without anchor
BigCo companies that bring people to the area and eventually when these people
leave they become VCs/founders/CTOs etc.

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robraven
Pretty much every big name tech company has a presence in NYC, from FB to
Google to Uber and smaller companies like Dropbox and Square.

~~~
xaranke
Right, but without an HQ there is no anchor.

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exogeny
Hard for me to take it seriously when The Players Tribune is included as an
"awesome company", but I digress.

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devereaux
Why I'm Bearish on the New York Startup Ecosystem : because I moved there when
I was also Bullish!!

To be more precise:

1\. Something feels off if you contact the local startups

I approached a few to see if they needed help. I do full stack, I love
learning new technologies, and I love challenges. From R to networking, there
are not many things I haven't played with. I know a few different ways to get
things done, each with they pros and cons.

Because interviews go both ways, I tried to discuss with them the problem they
are facing and their choice of technology, mostly to see what I might be
getting in. I noticed a lot of cargo-cult and a lack of deep understanding. It
is hard to explain briefly. My spider sense just told me something was off.

Also, my lack of diploma was apparently a black mark - even if I have tens of
years of experience. Maybe it is elitism? I don't know. It feels weird.

And god forbid you say something that they later realize was right. They seem
to really resent that. A month ago, when quizzed on the crypto market, I
explained that person I was seriously bullish on Dogecoin for technical
reasons, because I just had had the same discussion on HN. It was not a heated
conversion - just a regular technical arguments. Since then, DOGE doubled. We
were supposed to grab a coffee this week. I haven't heard from them. I suppose
I won't. That feels even weirder.

2\. When you try to deliver services, you notice the local ecosystem is too
grounded

Most startups there seem to have little ambition, and are not willing to move
fast or break things - or to even take that risk. Instead, they take the
buzzword technology of the day, apply it to a simple problem, see if that can
somehow be profitable.

I run my own consulting business. I have delivered crazy things to my clients
crazy requests- and to their satisfaction. In NYC, I see huge opportunities to
do things differently. I would even be willing to take the fully risk, and to
be paid on the percentage of improvement - or zero if I can't improve things.
But they always seem to err on the ultra safe side, and they seem to be very
stuck in their ways.

3\. Because I know consider NYC mostly as a base to offshore my services

Maybe the NYC ecosystem will get its act together at some point in the future.
Maybe I will find some company that values getting things done?

I have clients in Europe and the East coast. NYC is perfectly as a home: there
are many good restaurants, EWR has good direct flights to many places, and the
subway system mostly does it job.

Maybe I am bad cultural fit for the North East? But I'm no longer bullish on
the NYC scene.

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invalidusernam3
A bit off topic, but could anyone recommend a good site for job hunting
(development jobs) in NY?

