
Tesla’s head of production is going to EV startup Lucid Motors - gibolt
https://electrek.co/2019/07/01/tesla-head-of-production-ev-startup-lucid-motors/
======
camjohnson26
> Lucid Motors has kind of spun out of Tesla. It was started by a former Tesla
> board member and executive and it is led by Peter Rawlinson, the former
> chief engineer of the Tesla Model S.

> Several other Tesla engineers and executives have also joined the startup
> and they are now also adding Hochholdinger to the team

~~~
ricardobeat
What’s with this recent trend of simply posting quotes from the article in HN?
Haven’t we all just finished reading those exact words, what value is this
adding to the discussion?

~~~
Shorn
I rarely read the article, this comment surfaced an interesting aspect.

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jdietrich
Hot take: Tesla isn't actually a car company, it's a battery company. The
Model S and Model 3 are functionally equivalent to Google Nexus devices -
their purpose isn't particularly to sell a lot of units, but to provide a
proof-of-concept for other companies to emulate. Tesla Motors fails if it
dies, but it succeeds if it's killed by other EV companies. Selling cars to
consumers is fundamentally less scalable than selling batteries to car
manufacturers; you don't need dealerships, you don't need marketing, you don't
need a complex supply chain for thousands of complex parts, you just need a
couple of huge factories and some proprietary chemistry.

~~~
woodgrainz
Doesn't Panasonic make the batteries for Tesla?

~~~
jdietrich
Tesla own the Gigafactory but lease the manufacturing equipment from Panasonic
on a per-cell-manufactured basis. Tesla have just bought Maxwell, a lithium
cell and supercapacitor IP company.

Panasonic effectively make the _cells_ (through quite a convoluted financial
arrangement with Tesla), but Tesla make the _batteries_ , which is a crucial
distinction. An EV battery pack is inordinately more complex than a bundle of
li-ion cells.

[https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-completes-maxwell-
acqui...](https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-completes-maxwell-acquisition-
battery-technology/)

~~~
Phlarp
Do you have any links on how the batteries are more than complex than a bundle
of li-ion cells? Is the complexity in the systems to monitor voltage, temp,
resistance and such of each cell and distribute load or outright fuse off
weakened cells?

I don't doubt you, but I would love to learn more.

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atonse
Is this sort of how they're trying to make a Tesla without Musk? By just
leaving one by one and recreating the company without Musk, instead of just
firing him?

Really curious as to what the motivations might be here for all these people
to leave (apart from the monetary benefits of joining another "Tesla" even
earlier).

~~~
gibolt
Most Tesla employees want to work on EVs, and it is a natural inclination for
employees to move towards newer, shinier projects and want to switch company
at some point.

Lucid probably makes that choice super easy, since you'll be working with
familiar faces.

The early employees are likely the best to create a new electric car company,
since they were the foundation of the current industry leader.

~~~
atonse
I agree – I'm just wondering what the draw is. Maybe Tesla has gone into
maintenance mode with refinements to their cars, and these folks are
fundamentally builders and want to build something radically different.

But when you look at it, they're building another Model S.

~~~
karthikb
Probably more like a natural time to leave - Model 3 is past the initial hell
and shipping more regularly, etc. And in this process have learned how to take
a vehicle from end to end. So instead of working on a brand new car inside of
Tesla, why not do the same thing on their own with a greater ownership stake?

Not always the best decision, but usually the kind of thought process one goes
though.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Could also be that despite being past Model 3 production hell, they are still
not profitable ($700M loss in Q1 '19), and they are betting the farm on
autonomous somehow turning that into a profit? Color me skeptical, but if I
was an engineer at Tesla I'd be looking for an exit as well.

~~~
jsight
OTOH, FCF has turned positive for at least the trailing 12 months, and they
are guiding for it to remain positive for the remainder of the year.

For sure, there are many struggles that continue for Tesla, but I'm not sure
that a new startup building cars from scratch is a way out of that. It looks
like jumping out of the pot and into an inferno to me.

But the sorts of people doing this seem to be the ones that might enjoy the
challenge involved.

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tills13
The thing I like the most about Tesla is the cars look futuristic without
going _too far_. I feel like every other luxury EV company just goes off the
deep end. The 3 and the modern S are the perfect design imo.

~~~
asteli
I think they went overboard with the "everything must happen via the center
console" interface strategy. From an aesthetic perspective, it is Very Pretty,
but it's kind of hard to accept that the way to open a glove compartment is a
button, on a screen, two feet and some menus away from the compartment itself.

~~~
erikpukinskis
It’s not primarily an aesthetic choice it is about part count more than
anything. The LCD is 10 parts and a lot of wiring. The same stuff in a trad
vehicle is a thousand parts and all the same wiring and probably a display or
two. It’s just more expensive to make.

~~~
asteli
That doesn't hold up, at least with my example. The glovebox latch on most
vehicles is a couple of bits of stamped metal and a spring. By making it
electrically actuated, Telsa necessitated adding a branch to the wiring
harness, along with extra crimps and connectors to keep track of, and an
actuator. This is all in addition to the latch mechanicals that would have
been present already.

~~~
erikpukinskis
Now factor in assembly time. Now factor in some fixed cost from the more
complex supply chain. Now factor in floor space in Fremont, which will
determine whether a new line can be built without a capital expenditure for
property.

“Part count” is a reasonable proxy for that.

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londons_explore
Interesting the lucid motors website is available in English and Chinese.

I wonder if they're hoping for China to be their main market, or to attract
investment from there?

~~~
Meandering
There has been Chinese money backing lucid motors since their early stages.
I've seen several articles over the past few years. Seemingly, they are
working with a Chinese bus company as well...

[https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/21/18235019/lucid-motors-
ele...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/21/18235019/lucid-motors-electric-suv-
ev-saudi-arabia) [https://electrek.co/guides/lucid-
motors/](https://electrek.co/guides/lucid-motors/)

------
londons_explore
Lucid Motors looks like an almost exact clone of Tesla... The strategy, the
design, etc.

I wonder how they expect to be better?

~~~
Ididntdothis
There often is an advantage to being a second mover. I am sure Tesla made a
lot of expensive mistakes that a newcomer can avoid and save a lot of money.

The same would apply for SpaceX. They could study a lot of the successful and
unsuccessful things other rocket makers had made and then do better.

~~~
ancorevard
Being the last mover is preferable.

To illustrate the point: Google search, the last search engine. Facebook, the
last social network.

~~~
sah2ed
This is only true in certain industries.

The examples you cite are Internet companies. Internet companies are peculiar
because they exploit the economies of scale of the Internet to primarily offer
services, not goods (read physical products).

If being last mover offered an advantage to players selling goods, then
Windows Phone ought to have trounced Apple iPhone and Google Android since
they were a late entrant in the smartphone movement when the paradigm shifted
from physical keyboards to touchscreens.

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zyang
This is reminiscent of Shockley and the traitorous eight.

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bdcravens
Interesting name: "Lucid"

This implies clarity. I personally think Tesla vehicles may fit the needs of a
small percentage of the population (kind of like the new Mac Pro), but are
overkill for everyone else, and the excitement in EV's is changing the world
for future generations. This requires a car you can sell to everyone, not just
those who would drop $80k on a car (or even $40k). I believe the core of what
Tesla could be, a great EV, is obfuscated by things like AutoPilot.
Interestingly enough, that's where most of the issues and headlines are as
well.

~~~
myrandomcomment
Except Lucid's first car is an over top luxury car that even has an option for
exec stye seats in the back for those that have a driver. Their car is a Mac
Pro and Tesla is just the 5K iMac.

[https://lucidmotors.com](https://lucidmotors.com)

~~~
reneherse
Having taken a first look at images of the car on their site, I'll say one
thing: Lucid has managed a much higher level of aesthetic refinement in their
design than Tesla.

I'm a huge fan of Tesla overall, and especially their engineering.
Unfortunately, despite the pedigree of their design team, I find the
aesthetics wanting. In comparison, the Lucid "Air" (as their model is known),
seems to rival the best German manufacturers for aesthetics. It has the
crispness and ease of a design from a mature luxury car company. So hats off
to that achievement, whatever their market or price point.

Tesla's sheet metal and interiors are somewhat clumsy in comparison. (It's
never a good sign when your car looks best in the curve-hiding color black.)

~~~
ricardobeat
As usual, a matter of taste. I find the design over-the-top especially with
the massive shiny rims (and good luck with ride comfort). Tesla intentionally
aims to be futuristic-but-not-too-much to appeal to a wider audience.

~~~
reneherse
Great point about the wider appeal of the Tesla design language. Also, I'll
amend my statement in regards to the Lucid's nose, which looks awkward in some
angles. Cars are best viewed in person, of course. :)

