
Uber CEO advised employees on rules for a company celebration in 2013 memo - oli5679
https://www.recode.net/2017/6/8/15765514/2013-miami-letter-uber-ceo-kalanick-employees-sex-rules-company-celebration
======
uberratti
Employee of almost three years here. Uber is not my first rodeo. I previously
was one of the very first employees at another fast growing startup where I
worked for about three years.

Uber was already past the days where it had the environment in that email, but
I experienced an environment like the one in that email at my last startup
because I was there at the beginning and lived that early growth. I'm glad
Uber was past that by the time I joined because as much as I enjoyed that
environment at the time, I was looking for something more mature after riding
that bull once. I was also looking to engineer systems at scale instead of
MVPs.

I read the comments here and I can only shake my head and think they were
written by armchair quarterbacks who don't know what a hypergrowth company
looks like. Comraderie and informality in the early days is par for the
course. You need that informality to help make the type-A high stress
environment not only tolerable but fun and motivating. People burn out without
it.

This isn't an immature CEO. This is a CEO whose attitude and demeanor has
changed with the company to match the kind of leader the company needed at the
time. Zuckerberg was the same way. Leading a company from the early days where
it's a few people in a house to 14000 employees across the globe requires a
superhuman person that evolves to match what the company needs to succeed in
the moment and then go to the next level. Uber turned 7 years old very
recently. It is easily the fastest growing company in the world. It still is
the fastest growing company in the world (as much as some people, often with
conflicts of interest, media included, wish it were not).

I honestly see very little difference between Travis and Zuck and Uber 2017
and Facebook 2009. Both had similar early cultures. Both had cultures that
changed as the companies matured. Both had some missteps along the way for
which they were rightly criticized. Both were remarkably effective at learning
from their mistake and correcting and moving forward.

If you think that Uber 2017 is the Uber of 2014, you're very wrong just like
it's absurd to think Facebook of 2009 was like Facebook of 2006. Uber of 2018
is going to be a very different place just like Facebook 2010 was. Not only
the organization will be different but the leaders in those years were
different. Zuck evolved with the company and so has Travis. Both were the
right kind of leader at the right time and they change as leaders as
necessary.

In the meantime, I will wait for the peanut gallery to point at an example,
any example, of a company that can grow and succeed like a Facebook or Uber in
the same time frame without evolving first from the type of culture we're
criticizing now, and without the kind of leader we are criticizing right now.
1 to 14000 over 7 years is superhuman leadership. And while the leader might
not be perfect at 7 years, they have more than proven themselves capable of
evolving over and over again if they can lead orgs with that growth. Honestly,
I kind of disgusted by the ageist comments that think that because he's ~40
that he will never change and must still be the person in that email.

I don't recognize the Travis in that email myself as that was a Travis that
existed before I joined. That said, I do recognize an email written by the
kind of leader that was the right leader at the right time for the type of
company Uber was a year before I joined (and less than a quarter of the size
of when I joined).

~~~
xref
It was a decade ago so perhaps hard for people to remember the criticisms
leveled at Facebook about this type of culture. Here is a 2012 article with
some highlights based on the book Katherine Losse wrote about her time as
Facebook employee #51 in 2005:

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165566/Mark-
Zuckerb...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165566/Mark-Zuckerberg-
The-sex-sleaze-secrets-Facebooks-little-emperor.html)

------
bluetidepro
This reads like an Onion article. How is this a billion dollar company? This
just absolutely blows my mind that any of this was actually said.

It's also interesting to think that if this sort of stuff had came out when it
actually happened, I guarantee that Lyft would have a lot more of an upper
hand in that race. Sadly, since it's about 4 years late, I wonder sometimes if
they just have too much of a market share to really get a hit from even
terrible press like this. Does anyone have any numbers on how this bad press
this year has been hitting them?

~~~
endorphone
_How is this a billion dollar company?_

One could argue that this is one of the reasons they become a billion dollar
company: They disregarded laws and norms and just did whatever, getting away
with it because of a tech halo.

If the company had started with a conservative legal foundation, it would have
been one of dozens of small taxi hailing apps. They said to hell with it and a
lot of people got rich.

~~~
chasing
Hard to prove a counterfactual, so it could also very well be the case that
they are successful _in spite_ of these failings, not _because of_ these
failings.

~~~
endorphone
The very foundation of the company that we are discussing is something that
was illegal in virtually every jurisdiction that they entered. There is a very
legitimate argument to be made that it was a very large scale criminal
enterprise. We know that this reality impacted much of their operations,
including high level active evasion of authorities.

It isn't terribly surprising that traditional corporate norms weren't strictly
followed in their operations or behaviors. This is true whether we believe
their actions were ultimately for the public good or to bring regulations
forward.

~~~
zzalpha
_The very foundation of the company that we are discussing is something that
was illegal in virtually every jurisdiction that they entered._

I think this is rewriting history just a bit.

My recollection is that, when Uber first entered the marketplace in various
locations, it was largely a gray area as to whether their business was legal.

Since then regulations have changed, been clarified, or been litigated in
courts to clarify their legal meaning... and Uber then proceeded to ignore
those laws and do whatever the hell they wanted to.

But my view is that that culture, of simply ignoring laws it saw as
inconvenient, came a bit later, after they started to become successful and
viewed themselves as essentially above the law.

~~~
endorphone
>I think this is rewriting history just a bit.

[https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/25/uber-airbnb-jail-
time/](https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/25/uber-airbnb-jail-time/)

Uber was an illegal taxi service in every jurisdiction they entered that I am
aware of. This wasn't really gray. It was remarkable the restraint
jurisdictions showed, I suspect because there was a sense that if they clamped
down they didn't "get it".

~~~
zzalpha
By that point Uber had already been operating for 2 years.

I'm questioning whether they launched knowing full well they were shirking the
law, or if they launched, realized they were in legal trouble, and then
proceeded to not give a sh*t. :)

~~~
bjl
It should have been obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that operating
an unlicensed taxi service was illegal.

~~~
zzalpha
Judging by the emailed cited in the article, I no longer assume what is and
isn't obvious to the founders of Uber, and I _certainly_ don't assume they
have even a modicum of sense... ;)

------
nailer
> The leaked memo paints an ugly picture of American frat-house culture
> peppered with sexism and laddish behaviour that permeates from the top down.

How are these things sexist and laddish? If a heterosexual couple decide to
have sex at a work event, then both people are equally culpable. Women are
people and capable of making their own decisions.

In cases where authority figures or no-explicit consent are involved, the
letter makes clear that won't be tolerated.

~~~
chasing
Here's the whole line item in Uber's e-mail:

> 4) Do not have sex with another employee UNLESS a) you have asked that
> person for that privilege and they have responded with an emphatic "YES! I
> will have sex with you" AND b) the two (or more) of you do not work in the
> same chain of command. Yes, that means that Travis will be celibate on this
> trip. #CEOLife #FML

First: This is completely inappropriate to bring up in this way in a work
environment.

Second: When it comes to sexual harassment issues in the workplace, women are
the main victims, which is probably why the Guardian reporter wrote that
sentence as they did. Not only does this text give a green light to very
questionable behavior (which will mostly or entirely be perpetrated against
women by men), but it also implies that CEO Kalanick -- someone employees
might take as a role model -- has and will continue to have sex with
underlings, but just not on this trip.

Yeah, it's probably a joke. If so, it's a dumb and inappropriate joke. And
Kalanick was 37 when he wrote this. Not 22. Not some newb CEO. 37.

~~~
nailer
> > 4) Do not have sex with another employee UNLESS a) you have asked that
> person for that privilege and they have responded with an emphatic "YES! I
> will have sex with you" AND b) the two (or more) of you do not work in the
> same chain of command. Yes, that means that Travis will be celibate on this
> trip. #CEOLife #FML

> This is completely inappropriate to bring up in this way in a work
> environment.

Active consent is a good thing and always good to bring up at social events.
Pretending that some staff don't have sex with other - particularly staff who
spend long hours in the same environment - is naive and dangerous, since it
stops issues like this from being addressed. Pointing out that not having sex
with someone who reports you applies to EVERYONE is also important.

> Not only does this text give a green light to very questionable behavior

What questionable behavior does it give a green light to?

~~~
chasing
For me, it's the tone and the implication that the CEO does it. Which casts a
jokey light on, y'know, telling employees to please not rape one another.

~~~
nailer
They're not telling staff to not rape each other. They're asking staff for
enthusiastic consent, and not to have sex in the chain of command, both of
which are more than what the law requires.

The joke that the CEO is making is that they are limiting their own sexual
activity too - since they're at the top and therefore anyone in the company
would be in their chain of command.

------
indogooner
More dirt being dug up. I so wanted to work for Uber purely because of
technical opportunities but reading all this and talking to some mates there
now I am not so sure. People do point it out to me that this is a team thing
but if the CEO is indirectly encouraging this boorish behaviour I am not sure
how many teams would be impervious to this.

------
Bartweiss
There's a lot of stuff here, but I'm surprised no one emphasized this gem:

> _We ... have organized a local grassroots movement to help bring Uber to
> Miami. #MiamiNeedsUber_

It's not often you see a company directly admit to "organizing a grassroots
movement" designed to boost their product. It's such a bizarrely sincere line
that you'd almost think Kalanick _believed_ a corporate-organized movement
counts as 'grassroots'.

------
dwringer
Well, might as well just bill me the $200 dollar puke charge right now then,
since I read that.

------
orliesaurus
Yes, unethical and all that. Who cares? We all claim to use Lyft on the
internet anyway!

------
chrischen
Clear author bias, and straining to make something out of nothing.

> "giving information about everything from vomiting (a $200 “puke charge”) to
> drug use"

The supposed information on drug use was a clear statement of zero tolerance
on drug use, something no doubt intentially left out of that sentence to paint
a picture.

------
charia
> The so-called “Miami letter”, obtained by technology site Recode, is
> infamous within Uber and set the tone for company culture with a series of
> dos and don’ts, backed by threats such as “URGENT, URGENT – READ THIS NOW OR
> ELSE!!!!!” and “You better read this or I’ll kick your ass”.

> Fourth on the list of don’ts was: “Do not have sex with another employee
> UNLESS a) you have asked that person for that privilege and they have
> responded with an emphatic “YES! I will have sex with you” AND b) the two
> (or more) of you do not work in the same chain of command.

> “Yes, that means that Travis will be celibate on this trip. #CEOLife #FML
> [Fuck My Life].”

> Kalanick also advised that there would be a “$200 puke charge” and that Uber
> did “not have a budget to bail anyone out of jail”. Uber employees were also
> advised not to “throw large kegs off of tall buildings”.

> However, employees were told to “have a great fucking time” and that it was
> a celebration for launching in Uber’s 50th city and for reaching a $1bn run
> rate.

> The leaked memo paints an ugly picture of American frat-house culture
> peppered with sexism and laddish behaviour that permeates from the top down.
> At the time Uber had 400 employees, a similar letter was sent out by
> Kalanick to employees when the company had 1,800 employees. By the time it
> had hit 4,000 employees Rachel Whetstone, the now departed head of
> communications, had taken over with a more subtle and respectful tone.

I'm a bit confused here, at least with the excerpt that's being
discussed/referenced. What Kalanick wrote is informal and with a tone that is
arguable less mature than what would be expected from a company the size of
uber when the letter was written. At the same time, from what I can see it
seems to just something HR would send out to employees. "Yes means yes,
nothing means no and don't sleep with your boss/direct suboordinate." I'm a
bit confused at how this memo paints, "paints an ugly picture of American
frat-house culture peppered with sexism..."

Yes, uber's culture seems to encourage sexism to run rampant. Yes, Travis
Kalanick is not a ceo with great pr skills. That said, I think it's a bit far
to call this informal hr letter written by a startup ceo as, "painting a
culture of sexism."

I can see how the, "frat boy" culture that this letter came from could be
something that encourages sexism and discriminatory behavior. This article
isn't about that though. It's arguing that this letter and it's "guidelines"
paint a picture of sexism. The subtitle:

>Guidelines about having sex with employees paints picture of sexism at under-
fire company that comes directly from CEO Travis Kalanick

This article seems to just want to reiterate what's been said in a dozen
previous articles, but since they didn't have any new information they decided
to go for low hanging fruit in the uber trainwreck.Bashing uber just for the
sake of bashing uber.

~~~
vanilla_nut
Agreed. I wonder who's benefiting from all of this anti-Uber propaganda
lately? There's been too much of it to ignore, at least one or two nasty
pieces per week.

While this memo is hardly professional in tone, it's also an internal
communication about a celebration weekend. It reads a lot like party
announcement emails I'd get from college organizations, and I don't think it's
sexist-- it's just lighthearted. It sounds like employees were a bit confused
about how to behave at this Miami event, and Travis sent this out to clarify
expectations- don't talk about confidential stuff to press, a quick/informal
(and, imo, very reasonable) mention of intimate dos/don'ts within the company,
and even an internal joke about dropping kegs off of roofs.

Would I want to work at this company as a 50-year-old? Probably not. But as a
20-something female, the Uber of 2013 sounds like a pretty fun place to work.
It may be informal, but at least it's not layers and layers of unbearable PR-
speak.

~~~
zentiggr
[https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-
on...](https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-
strange-year-at-uber)

~~~
vanilla_nut
She joined in January 2015. Also, I'm not saying I've ever worked at Uber (I
haven't) -- I simply said that this memo makes 2013 Uber sound like a fun
place to work because it feels honest and isn't just PR-speak.

I don't mean to belittle Susan's experience at all: from her description, it
sounds like there are a lot of bad eggs at Uber. But this memo is not
indicative of that at all, and I don't like the fact that news articles are
trying to spin it as "frat" level language.

------
dilemma
If you read the entire email, it's actually not that bad.

------
artursapek
Some children never grow up ;)

------
ploggingdev
Original source : [https://www.recode.net/2017/6/8/15765514/2013-miami-
letter-u...](https://www.recode.net/2017/6/8/15765514/2013-miami-letter-uber-
ceo-kalanick-employees-sex-rules-company-celebration)

Can a moderator change the url?

~~~
Bartweiss
I appreciate the change, but it definitely broke some discussion. The quotes
here and accusations of a hit piece are mostly being made against the
Guardian's editorializing, not Recode's simpler publication.

------
TimeToFly
Uber keep rising a bar for the shitty company every week. It's as degenerated
as political elites of the west world. When you think they can't screw up
anymore, they actually do. And people just get used to it while the company is
pumping its revenues into marketing rather than growth and innovation.

