
Hard Truths and Happiness - andyjohnson0
http://blogs.exeter.ac.uk/stoicismtoday/2016/12/03/hard-truths-and-happiness-by-john-sellars/
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tshadley
> By thinking about death – even the seemingly unbearable death of one’s own
> child – within the much wider context of a series of natural and inevitable
> processes of birth and decay that permeate all aspects of the cosmos, from
> microbes to galaxies, we might be able to gain some consolation that this is
> simply part of a much larger natural order of things.

This strikes me as a little bit similar to the comforting fiction that the
article criticizes. Certainly disease/suffering/death are patterns, but
patterns point to underlying mechanisms that can be understood and potentially
controlled, not just accepted fatalistically as "the natural order of things".

~~~
jdietrich
The odds are exceedingly high that you will die. _Maybe_ we'll figure out some
form of immortality, but it's overwhelmingly likely that we'll do no more than
delay the inevitable. It is absolutely certain that you will experience
disease and suffering.

The transhumanistic attitude of "let's look for solutions to death rather than
accepting it" is a form of avoidant coping, little different to religious
beliefs about the afterlife. _Maybe_ you'll live forever in the singularity,
but you'll almost certainly suffer and die and rot. It's better to contemplate
that probability now, rather than on your death bed.

~~~
taneq
If I can avoid suffering, dying and rotting until I'm on my deathbed sometime
in the far future, then that sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

Better yet if I can delay it until a time of my own choosing rather than being
yanked out of existence "when my time comes".

------
mcguire
" _In order to develop this further we might consider a popular critical image
of Stoicism: a Stoic is someone who is powerless in the real world and so
pretends that his or her happiness is something completely internal and within
their own control. Got no money? Easy, just say that money is unnecessary for
a good life and the problem is solved. According to a long line of modern
critics of Stoicism from Hegel onwards, the Stoic is someone who lies
themselves out of reality in order to feel happy in otherwise unpleasant
circumstances. It is an example of what Nietzsche called a ‘slave morality’,
ultimately grounded in powerlessness and an inability to face up to some hard
truths about life._ "

1\. Well, Stoicism and its nigh identical twin Epicureanism _are_ a response
to the fading of classical Greece post Alexander and in the face of the rise
of Rome. The idea that they are powerless and "slave" philosophies is kinda
true.

2\. The rest of the article does not dispute the first sentence; we all really
are powerless in the face of death, etc., etc. The issue the article has is
with the word "pretends".

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tonyedgecombe
"Indeed, the ancient Stoics aimed at eudaimonia which is usually translated as
‘happiness’."

I'm not sure that is an accurate translation, Aristotle said it is about
"living well and faring well", it's more about a good life than a happy life.

~~~
ASpring
> [...] it's more about a good life than a happy life.

I would argue that you cannot disaggregate the two. Only the person living a
life can truly make a value judgement on it and if they value it as "good"
they are quite literally saying they are happy.

Maybe we're getting caught up by different meanings of happiness. I'm working
from happiness being a deep seated contentment (very much "living and faring
well") rather than an active effervescent joy.

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NumberCruncher
If you are interested in stoicism I highly recommend to read A Guide To The
Good Life: The Ancient Art Of Stoic Joy by William B. Irvine. It is a really
good starting point and gives a good overview.

------
jschwartzi
Confronting hard truths about the world we live in doesn't mean we have to
cease to love or to be. Understanding that a child's death is possible doesn't
make the child die. It's possible to know that and then to live more fully in
the moment because of it.

~~~
preordained
I don't know what living more fully in the moment means, or maybe I'm just not
good at it. Does it just mean to be unfettered by thoughts of what has
been/could be? And the idea is that the thoughts themselves are a detriment to
happiness? I can get that, I suppose, but I've never understood "time is
short, so live in the moment" sort of thing. I and probably all people have
experienced being engaged in something to the point where "intruding" thoughts
can't enter...but I'm hesitant to think that more and more of that experience
is the ultimate goal. But like I said, I could be thinking apples and oranges.

~~~
spangry
No one's really good at it. There's nothing wrong with thinking (or being
thoughtful), but there's a difference between _choosing_ to think about
something versus _reflexively_ judging, labelling, ruminating etc. Not being
the master of your own thoughts, instead just being along for the ride.

To me, 'living in the moment' sounds awfully similar to the goal of Vipassana
Buddhism: accurately perceiving reality (i.e. enlightenment). In that sense,
'living in the moment' is a passive rather than active act: experiencing your
life without reflexively (often unconsciously) judging or labelling your
experiences. Neither ruminating over the past nor obsessing over the future.
Observing without judgement and thinking only when you choose to. A 'skillful'
state of mind.

I doubt many, if any, of us are able to perceive things this way, without
deliberate cultivation of a non-judgemental mind. I guess that's why the
phrase is 'practice meditation'; it is literally 'practising' a specific way
of perceiving the world (one that doesn't come naturally to us), just as you
have to practice any other skill.

If this all sounds a bit strange, maybe even untrue, give this a try: go
somewhere peaceful (a park, your backyard etc.) and just sit down somewhere
and 'watch the world go by' for 5 minutes. Try to observe impartially, without
labelling, judging or letting your thoughts drift to work, your social circle,
what you're having for dinner etc. I suspect most of us (myself included)
wouldn't make it past 20 seconds before some thought intruded. If you're a
real masochist, try actually meditating for 5 minutes. It's _torture_.

If you try the above, I think you'll realise how little control you have over
your own mind. I don't know much about stoicism, but maybe the stoics had a
similar notion to the Buddhists. The word 'stoic' has modern connotations of
_outward_ calm and impassivity, despite the boiling emotion within. That
sounds exhausting, maybe even impossible. But perhaps the original idea was
similar to Buddhist philosophy: to master your own thoughts, and outward
composure (maybe even 'happiness') would simply be a side-effect.

~~~
xhedley
You don't have to be so hard on yourself when "practising meditation" though.
There's another piece on the front page of HN right now about using positive
reinforcement to influence the behaviour of children. The secular Mindfulness
Based Stress Reduction (Jon Kabat Zinn) and Mindfulness Self Compassion
(Kristen Neff) approaches both take a curious approach to mind wandering. In
meditation, every time you notice the mind wandering is a learning experience.
Then you go back to focus on the breath or whatever you are doing, and repeat
again and again without self criticism. If meditation feels like torture my
view is that you're doing it wrong.

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jack9
Am I a stoic?

As someone who doesn't experience much emotion (usually none) except for my
own hubris or pride, I find I'm happier than most people. I also find I have
bouts of negative emotions at times, but very few identifiable positive
emotional experiences. The number of times I could identify my own "happiness"
is about 12...and that's where my life experiences and lifestyle was in a
condition I would aspire to for the commensurate time period.

> According to a long line of modern critics of Stoicism from Hegel onwards,
> the Stoic is someone who lies themselves out of reality in order to feel
> happy in otherwise unpleasant circumstances.

I am considered "different" in many respects, by everyone I spend time around.
It doesn't seem to make me much less popular, but I am avoided or included in
exchanges, based on this personality. I don't ignore emotion to avoid
unpleasant circumstances (although it may be related to childhood
experience/trauma at some point), I just don't have it. As per American
Psycho, I'm just not there. When diagnosed with a life-threatening condition,
I respond (because they want a reaction) - "Everyone dies". So it might seem
like it's a coping mechanism when I'm really just trying to accommodate
others. When my father gets cancer. I reassess if I want to spend time with
him. Nope. Didn't before, don't now.

One day I'll be gone and the whole question becomes moot for me, so I never
thought it had a name.

~~~
phkahler
You sound like you may be a schizoid.

~~~
jack9
Yeah, that's more like me. tx

------
reddytowns
I believe all emotions are instinct. Rallying against your emotions, trying to
elicit one over another by simply attempting to force yourself to believe
something is bound to fail, because instincts aren't logical.

You have accept you're an animal and your emotions, aka your instincts, guide
you to propagate the human race in a way that worked ten thousands of years
ago, but no longer works now.

One of the most powerful principles is that your instincts attempt to follow
is to keep the same pattern of things that worked before.

Why are you attracted to someone who shares traits of your parents, even self-
destructive ones? For that matter, why do you share these same psychological
traits? Genes? Bah! It's because what happened, what you were exposed to,
regardless of how painful it was, resulted in you being born. So
instinctively, it's a good choice.

And to expand on that, this instinctive trait to emulate your parents were
within your parents, so your parents did much to emulate their parents, and on
and on. So the mere presence of this instinct in your lineage is very strong
evidence that it helps keep your lineage alive.

You can see this pattern of behaviour by watching animals. In absence of other
problems, they'll follow the same pattern day after day, they'll search the
same areas for food, sleep in the same places they did before, etc. It's the
safest thing to do, and it's very popular. If you catch a mouse and release it
a mile from your home, it will find its way back to your very same property,
regardless of better habitats that may exist along the way.

Any attempt to internally debate your desire to follow your instincts, is
bound to fail. As soon as the argument seems settled in your favour, and you
no longer think about it, you will find yourself creeping back to your own
patterns.

So how do you combat this? The answer is continual exposure to alternative
thinking patterns. You have to expose yourself over and over again to
different thoughts and ideas from what you've been absorbing from your
childhood, and never let up.

I'd recommend subliminal audio, which you can listen to while working or doing
other things. It also is something you can continue to do for years without
spending much effort. You can find a lot of it on youtube, search for "george
hutton".

~~~
chillacy
I'm with you on the role of emotions, and setting up alternative thinking
patterns too. I'm using CBT to do that right now.

But I'm not sure about this subliminal messaging thing. Especially when George
Hutton can claim... this product:
[https://gumroad.com/l/iDowu](https://gumroad.com/l/iDowu)

I am however open to guided hypnosis, I'd like to try that one day.

~~~
reddytowns
I'm not trying to endorse the guy. I agree, a lot of the stuff is kind of
wacky or downright weird. He has one on becoming a vampire, and another for
becoming a god, for a couple of examples.

He has a lot of normal stuff, too, though, like
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8L6SBQ9Mqo&list=PLwNH29STmg...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8L6SBQ9Mqo&list=PLwNH29STmgkd3MSDm8KOZNyb3zlla8223&index=43)
(for motivation) and
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPzSDt8YbQ&list=PLwNH29STmg...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPzSDt8YbQ&list=PLwNH29STmgkd3MSDm8KOZNyb3zlla8223&index=177)
(for confidence). I downloaded a bunch of the audio from videos like these,
using youtube-dl, and play them on shuffle. I found his audio to work for me,
better than other subliminal stuff I tried.

He uses a combination of binaural beats + subliminals which may have something
to do with it. Based on my results at least, I think this combination should
be explored further.

