
AudioQuest Diamond RJ/E Ethernet Cable: £6899 - jasoncartwright
http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/8041/audioquest-diamond-rj-e-ethernet-cable-12m
======
bsaul
I onced interviewed for a job at a software company developping virtual
instruments plug-ins. At some point in the interview, the guy told me this
great story :

"We made some test once, and we changed the skin of the software, to a new
color. Every people said the software sounded better with that new skin. Yet
we changed absolutely nothing except the color."

I'm still wondering if some graphical configuration ( such as a bright color)
wouldn't stimulate the brain more, making it more receptive in general, and to
sound in particular, letting people "hear" better.

~~~
z-e-r-o
While I totally agree with the moral of this story, I'd like to point some
reasons why the visuals of a software might interfere with audio:

1\. just check this website:
[http://thume.ca/screentunes/](http://thume.ca/screentunes/) there is a large
chance that your computer videocard and/or LCD will make a noise on that page

2\. when the videocard makes such a noise, it can interfere with the PSU and
thus affect the soundcard as well.

3\. Thus, it's actually possible that changing a "high-frequency stripy"
interface to a solid color will lower the noise-floor on the sound-card a bit.

~~~
jkot
I can confirm that. On most computers I could tell what is happening on screen
just by listening. Scrolling, video playback, task switching all makes
different noises. I have decent headphones and amplifier.

~~~
gcommer
Any external DAC will eliminate this for you.

~~~
TylerE
Nope. I'm running into an external DAC and then a Rega integrated amp. Makes
noise her as the bars get smaller. The noise is independent of amplifier
volume, including with the amplifier volume all the way down, and even occurs
with the amplier and DAC switched OFF. The noise is actually coming from the
LCD.

------
raldi
There might not actually be anyone who buys these cables. The point might be
to use their existence (or claimed existence) to make the $200 Ethernet cable
seem like a good "middle" choice.

~~~
reubenmorais
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring)

------
fdb
The "Wat Hifi?" Tumblr features more of these products:
[http://wathifi.tumblr.com/](http://wathifi.tumblr.com/)

~~~
themartorana
That some of the quotes on that blog seem to indicate that different cables
can actually change rhythm and timing is really eye-opening to just how
outlandish some claims can get.

~~~
rdale
It doesn't mean that the cables or other equipment differences, can change the
'beats per minute' of a music track.

If the bass is reproduced poorly and sounds 'woolly' it will subjectively mess
up the timing of the bass playing with respect to the rest of the music, as
though the bass player is less skilful. Whereas listening to the same track
with equipment that has tight, clear and dynamic bass can make the music sound
more lively and subjectively 'faster', and it is more likely to make your foot
tap.

~~~
fennecfoxen
> If the bass is reproduced poorly ...

Yeah, sure. But most of these comments are about cables carrying digital
signals, a class of devices which only have two real operating modes: "working
perfectly" and "catastrophic failure". Instead of respecting the principles of
the physics and information encoding associated with this layout, though, we
see outlandish claims of frequencies traveling at different speeds and
damaging your multi-octave audio.

~~~
rdale
With digital audio going to a DAC even with cheap cables, the '1's and '0's
should be arriving OK and will be in "working perfectly" mode. You have to
hope that is the case with USB audio as there is no error checking.

But when bits arrive is very important in audio, and whether or not the
devices and cables in the chain before the DAC have introduced noise on the
ground plane is also considered very important by some.

I can't see how an ethernet cable can affect timing, as the packets with the
digital signal might even arrive out of order. The earthing of the ethernet
cable might influence how much noise is introduced the ground plane though. It
might explain why the Audioquest cables are directional, if their earthing
arrangement is directional perhaps.

~~~
kabdib
USB has error checking (there are checksums on every USB packet).

Isochronous USB has no error recovery (so if that packet arrives with a
mangled checksum, you have a data dropout).

However, cables are the least of your worries; it's the driver stack (USB,
ethernet, whatever) and the audio software feeding it that are the main
sources of error. Unfortunately for Monster (et al) it is far harder for them
to sell a $5,000 piece of software that does nothing than it is for them to
sell a $5K piece of snake-oil-class hardware; the software is objectively
analyzable without expensive tools, for instance.

------
goodmachine
IANAL, so maybe someone who is can comment: surely this is flat-out illegal?

The vendor claims that

1.'All audio cables are 'directional'

2.'When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently,
a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio.'

That's two verifiably untrue or misleading statements with reference to a data
cable, putting all subjective sound-quality fluff aside.

Puts me in mind of the claims of homeopaths, etc.

[https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/regulations-
tha...](https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/regulations-that-affect-
advertising)

[http://www.cap.org.uk/Advertising-Codes/Non-
Broadcast/CodeIt...](http://www.cap.org.uk/Advertising-Codes/Non-
Broadcast/CodeItem.aspx?cscid=%7B61a03caa-6750-498d-8732-68d55c0752fd%7D#.VNeI23746K0)

~~~
JshWright
> 1.'All audio cables are 'directional'

I have actually used this claim for less evil purposes in the past...

I spent my summers in high school working phone support for a university. This
was back in the day when people brought desktop computers with them to school
and plugged them into the wall with an ethernet cable... Many of the issues
folks had getting connected could be solved by reseating the ethernet cable
(either it was poorly seated in the first place, or the process of unplugging
it and plugging it back in caused the NIC to reset some stuck bit of the
driver). Unfortunately, it was quite common for folks to ignore your
instructions to unplug the cable and plug it back in (as they are _sure_ that
couldn't be the problem). I quickly picked up a habit of suggesting they may
have accidentally gotten a 'unidirectional ethernet cable' and they should try
swapping it end for end.

~~~
goodmachine
Fortunately, all the cables from this machine to HN are plugged in facing the
right way so I can upvote you.

------
Retr0spectrum
"All audio cables are directional. The correct direction is determined by
listening to every batch of metal conductors used in every AudioQuest audio
cable. Arrows are clearly marked on the connectors to ensure superior sound
quality. For best results have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow
of music. For example, NAS to Router, Router to Network Player."

~~~
lawl
This will be perfect with the new HiFi Harddisks I'm developing at my startup.
They'll offer HiFi data storage to make sure your crappy youtube to mp3 rips
don't lose quality when stored over a longer time period.

(I just made this joke in IRC too and somebody sent me this link
[http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic/vol5_no3/listening_t...](http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic/vol5_no3/listening_to_storage.htm)
)

Maybe there is actually money to make off this!

~~~
Sami_Lehtinen
I remember laughing at Kodak Digital Film. But I knew a few photographers whom
preferred to use it. [http://www.cnet.com/products/kodak-digital-film-flash-
memory...](http://www.cnet.com/products/kodak-digital-film-flash-memory-
card-32-mb-compactflash/)

~~~
Dylan16807
As opposed to what? There's a lot of variation in flash quality, affecting
reliability and speed.

------
surreal
Without commenting on whether the product is worth the price (I don't know
enough about HiFi quality):

There is a bell curve of purchasing mentality - from a minority who buy solely
based on what's cheapest, through varying degrees of cost/benefit tradeoff,
through to a minority who will tend toward whatever is most expensive. It
often pays to offer something to that latter group.

~~~
tormeh
This. Fashion and luxury is crazy. Sales may increase as you increase the
price.

This video explains the Swedish concept of "vasking", essentially throwing
expensive liquids down the drain to demonstrate how little their price tags
matter to you:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uhEpMJ3n_wU](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uhEpMJ3n_wU)
(it's also hilarious)

Making stuff that people use exclusively to show off is such a great business
that the only reason everyone's not trying to do it must be some misguided
faith in humanity.

~~~
gruntled
Luxury isn't necessarily crazy, it can be rational economic signaling:
[http://www.joshuakennon.com/mental-model-veblen-
goods/](http://www.joshuakennon.com/mental-model-veblen-goods/)

~~~
alexbecker
My favorite example of this is drug dealer's cars. In _Gang Leader for a Day_
, the author recounts how lieutenants in a Chicago drug gang who made only
30-40k/year had to spend almost all of it on their cars, and often had to live
with their mothers as a result.

~~~
omegaham
This applies to a lot of jobs. Lawyers at certain firms are expected to wear
expensive clothes and drive nice cars; the guy who drives a Geo Metro to work
and wears a "meh" suit is frowned at. Even more ridiculous is the fact that
like the drug dealers, the fashion is driven by the richest people, and the
less secure and wealthy folks follow.

There's a great book called _The Millionaire Next Door_ , where they look at
the spending habits of millionaires. One of the things that stuck out was the
fact that a lot of these people have "boring" jobs that don't have "face" to
keep. No one really cares about what the owner of a janitorial company or a
welding supplier looks like, so there's no pressure for him or her to have the
Right House or the Right Car or the Right country club memberships. In
contrast, the book notes a couple of doctors and lawyers who are really active
in their professions' social scenes and are living paycheck-to-paycheck
despite earning far more.

Personally, I like my Shittic (beat-up Civic that is missing half the paint).
Every month that it keeps running is another month that I don't have to make a
car payment. My girlfriend winces every time she sees it, though...

------
buro9
Great, I've been looking for an ethernet cable, I recently purchased a
subwoofer cable for only £9,049 (
[http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/8401/audioquest-w...](http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/8401/audioquest-
wild-dog-subwoofer-cable-20m/) ) and I was worried that I wasn't getting the
best out of the sound as the cables earlier in the system weren't at this
quality.

Edit: just found a £2,199 mp3 player:
[http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/8288/astell-
amp-k...](http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/8288/astell-amp-kern-
ak240-master-quality-sound-portable-music-player/)

~~~
kalleboo
With all those high-quality components, make sure you have an $8,000 power
cable to match [http://www.coconut-
audio.com/propower32mm.html](http://www.coconut-audio.com/propower32mm.html)

~~~
nunull
Or the "MEGA SATA". [http://www.coconut-
audio.com/megasata.html](http://www.coconut-audio.com/megasata.html)

------
tilt_error
This is hilarious. You are sold the idea of a "pipe", through which something
flows -- of course, having a "smoother" directional pipe would be better! But
then again, we are talking about electrons -- alternating currents -- flowing
one way _and_ the other for a short while. Having knowledge about how currents
move in leads, typically on the surface of the lead, explains why quality
cables consists of a multitude of small leads.

On these leads, electrons are flowing a little bit in one direction and then
as the polarity of the source shifts, a little bit in the other. The whole
idea of having a "direction" in a cable is just...

At one time we really had analog equipment "all the way down", so it kind of
made sense to minimise distortion and loss in every individual link. Nowadays,
we use digital systems where the music information is conveyed as "symbols".
In this realm, a lot of the concepts from analog systems (or even the "pipe"
system mentioned above) just makes no sense.

It is true that the digital information is still run over analog cables, in
this case I assume we are talking about an Ethernet layer, but it has very
little resemblance with the idea of a loudspeaker cable as information is
packaged and translated in various ways before actually appearing on the
cable.

Do you remember that funny marker pen that you could use to paint the edge of
CDs to minimise effects of laser light running back and forth in the CD. That
was a try att connecting a common understanding of the turntable with the new
CD medium -- the idea of having a pickup that could be disturbed. I wonder
onto what common understanding the idea of these cables are trying to connect,
the water pipe idea is visual and easily taken but jumps a generation or two
of reality.

I choose to see this as a taxation of... less gifted but wondrously more
wealthy people. Actually a tax that kind of makes sense.

------
ksec
I have always wanted to ask this but never found the right place to do so.

Why, in the world of Digital Audio with ones and zeros, would any cable, be it
silver or gold or what ever super conducting cores make any difference to
sound quality?

Yes it would properly make 0.0001% ( Wild Guess Only ) speed difference due to
better conductivity and less Error correction. But if everything gets decoded
at the Chip level, then the cable should in theory makes absolutely NO
difference in sound quality what so ever.

Please correct me if i am wrong.

~~~
cmicali
Poor quality or really long connections can cause jitter, especially since in
most consumer stuff the clock is sent with the signal. That jitter can cause
differences in the signal out from the d/a. That said, the difference is less
than minuscule, and time and time again people post double blind tests that
prove even people who consider themselves trained audiophiles can't tell the
difference. Same goes for analog - in practice the cable doesn't make an
audible difference, no matter what you use (see below)

Short answer: cables don't matter

The famous audioholics coat hanger test:
[http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/speakers-
when-i...](http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/speakers-when-is-good-
enough-enough.2512/page-2#post-15412)

Also a great watch:
[http://xiph.org/video/vid1.shtml](http://xiph.org/video/vid1.shtml)

~~~
anentropic
the whole jitter thing is nonsense in the context of something like an
Ethernet cable since only the data is being sent, the packets only have to
arrive 'fast enough', the timing doesn't matter.

~~~
cmicali
Yeah sorry - should have said that above applies to digital audio streamed
over a wire and decoded directly (spdif, aes, etc)

You can always use a $6k rubidium clock
[http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/10m-atomic-
clock](http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/10m-atomic-clock) if you
really want to make sure your bits are synchronized. It's good enough for wu-
tang!

For buffered data being sent and decoded, like via ethernet, the bits are the
same on both ends, so I'm not sure what effect you would even make up to say
it could change the output.

------
yk
"Silver plated plugs" Can someone remind me of the electric properties of
Silveroxide? ( Or do I need to hire someone who polishes the plugs before each
track?)

~~~
joshvm
That stuck out like a sore thumb for me - it's a £6000 cable and the
connectors aren't gold plated? Perhaps that's reserved for a model up..

~~~
njloof
The silver oxide tells you when the cable is worn out and you need to buy a
new one.

------
huhtenberg
Earlier on - the classics of A/B testing in "Monster cables vs Coat hangers"

[http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/speakers-
when-i...](http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/speakers-when-is-good-
enough-enough.2512/page-2#post-15412)

Scroll to the 2nd from the bottom paragraph staring with "We gathered up ...".

~~~
q_no
I'm not a native english speaker, what are "coat hangers"?

~~~
b3tta
The thing where you "hang" your "coat" on:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=coat+hanger&tbm=isch](https://www.google.com/search?q=coat+hanger&tbm=isch)

~~~
q_no
LOL, and I was wondering what kind of cable it was supposed to be, of course I
know coat hangers but didn't get it in the context. Thank you! :)

------
ryanlol
These cables are truly wonderful for deconstructing the Mozartian spacial
qualities of the sound and to perpetuate the plateau-spreading fluidity of the
music.

------
cbg0
That's actually quite cheap compared to this:
[http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/12/250000-eur-
schnerzinger...](http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/12/250000-eur-schnerzinger-
audio-cable.html)

------
mavhc
A 100Gbps metal twisted pair ethernet cable? that explains the price, it came
from the future where such standards may have been defined.

I asked them a question on their website to see if that's true.

~~~
mavhc
No reply, and the page has been deleted. The time travel conspiracy must be
maintained.

------
Aardwolf
It says the length is 12m. At this price, surely that must mean 12 miles? or
12 megaparsecs?

------
shin_lao
Some Hifi equipments are in the range of hundreds of thousands, it is easy for
the reseller to slip in a couple of cables in the range of thousands. It's 1%
of the final price.

Of course there will be absolutely no difference with a 5 € Ethernet cable.

Most interesting is that expensive analogical cables are as much as useless.
During a blind tests listeners are unable to tell which cable is the
"expensive" one.

------
pan69
Well, luckily it comes with a 5 year warranty.

~~~
barking
And in today's fast moving world it's hard to put a price on peace of mind

------
sanoli
You know the price is wrong when there's a "Fiance Available" on the sale page
of an ethernet cable :-)

~~~
mathieuh
I think buying one of these things would surely reduce the availability of
fiancé(e)s.

~~~
ArekDymalski
It will reduce the availability of certain type of fiancé(e)s, but attract the
other type.

~~~
Thimothy
Or maybe they are too in the bussiness of russian fiancees. I'm pretty sure
there is some affinity with selling 7000$ ethernet cable.

------
monkeymagic
One of my hobbies is arguing with reviewers about these sort of things on
amazon. Its amazing the crap they come up with.

------
jkot
There are shoes or bags sold for this price. This thing at least has some
silver inside, so its not complete waste.

------
lucaspiller
There's also an £8k HDMI cable:

[http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/7119/wireworld-
pl...](http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/7119/wireworld-platinum-
starlight-7-hdmi-cable-w-ethernet-20m/)

It only supports HDMI 1.4 though, so you are limited to 30fps at 4k :(

------
jakobegger
To be fair, that price is for the 12 meter (40 ft) cable. The 75cm (2 ft)
cable is much more affordable at just £600.

The best part about that cable is that someone took the time to determine
which direction it sounds best, and the cable is marked to make it
straightforward to attach it in the best direction!

~~~
noir_lord
> The best part about that cable is that someone took the time to determine
> which direction it sounds best

Nope, they just marked an arrow on it and _said they took the time to
determine which direction is best_.

~~~
lmm
I doubt it. That seems like the sort of thing that could be illegal. Getting
an intern to listen to the cable in both directions and mark an arrow on would
cost what, $.50/cable?

------
fivedogit
I wonder if this is an automated pricing battle, similar to the $23.7 million
dollar book about bugs on Amazon.

[http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/04/25/amazon.price.algorith...](http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/04/25/amazon.price.algorithm/)

------
matthewcanty
Shame it makes no difference:
[https://numeralnine.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/a-brief-
guide-t...](https://numeralnine.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/a-brief-guide-to-
audio-for-the-skeptical-consumer/)

------
viggity
"financing available". wow. some people have no shame.

------
kristaps
I sometimes wonder if these outrageous "audiophile" products are just trolls
and no real person has actually bought any of the crap.

------
geijoenr
this can only be some money laundering scheme

------
iptel
Daylight robbery

~~~
happyscrappy
A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place.

------
ai_ja_nai
Audiophiles are truly a sustain for economy

------
silverwind
100000% the price for 5% more conductivity compared to copper? Thanks, but
I'll wait for graphene cables.

------
pron
_For best results have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of
music._

------
Matthias247
Directional Ethernet - nice :-)

------
q_no
I bet not even NASA would deploy such expensive cables on a spaceshuttle.

~~~
dfox
Essentially same type of four pair cable that is used for SpaceWire and
Ethernet on-board of ISS is readily available and generally costs less than
10EUR/meter.

------
alexchamberlain
What a waste of silver!

------
bencollier49
Decimal place error?

------
cpplinuxdude
Why?

~~~
EliRivers
Because it gives you a "large sound picture". If there's anything I've ever
wanted in my pictures, it's for them to be large sound.

What's more, these ethernet cables work better passing data in one direction
than the other. Here's me using ordinary, non-directional cables, like a
sucker :(

