
It's practically impossible for regular people to buy Bitcoin - pieterhg
http://levels.io/regular-people-bitcoin/
======
PaulJoslin
This is why I was unable to buy bitcoins when I first read about them on HN in
2010 and similar in 2011 when the price had gone over $1 and actually showed
promise. (I have some emails to colleagues / friends showing my frustration at
the time of wanting to get some)

I always wanted just 1 (still do), but back in 2010 I was just going to spend
£100 and see what happens. It seems in the US the people who did similar to
what I wanted to do in varying forms made good profits (and had an interesting
ride).

This is different from 'speculating' (e.g. 'oh I wish I had actually bought
some') - I had full intent and wanted to buy them, but just the barrier to
entry due to UK regulations were very high. I even tried to arrange peer to
peer transactions through reddit or in person but they also seemed difficult.
Most people I ever met in person who had any didn't want to sell due to the
belief of the ever increasing price.

~~~
leoedin
I had luck buying bitcoins a few times about a year ago through MtGox. Their
method of getting money in (UK bank transfer) was shut down about October last
year, and since then I've not figured out how to buy more. I have to wonder
where the money stoking these recent price rises is coming from.

Of course I managed to be highly ineffective at making the most of the
bitcoins I had. I think I probably had about 10 bitcoins in my posession at
one point, and I probably realised about £150 of real gain out of them.
Hindsight is wonderful!

Edit: I should add that I opened my MtGox account a few years ago, before
there was any requirement for ID or verification. I think the whole process
has become a lot harder since.

~~~
PaulJoslin
It's coming from China[1]. A LOT OF MONEY from China. Like $millions. That's
how all these early adopters in the USA are being able to cash out millions
and the price is not crashing.

They seem to like the fact it separates them from the US dollar, as well as
allowing Chinese residents more control over their money and a potential store
of wealth comparable to gold (although far more volatile).

Of course I still believe this is unsustainable, but in a strange form this is
a wealth rebalancing act on a global scale... the rich Chinese giving money to
the US citizens.

As long as the rest of the world doesn't go bitcoin mad and let the Chinese
cash out again, then if it ever pops there will be a lot of wealth lost in
China.

[1][http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-27/bitcoin-surges-
to-1...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-27/bitcoin-surges-to-1-000-as-
virtual-money-gains-wider-acceptance.html)

~~~
Aqueous
I'm more worried what the effect of the Chinese government potentially
outlawing BitCoin would have.

Both China and the US government have given BitCoin a tacit (and not-so-tacit)
endorsement, China with a pro-BitCoin documentary on state television, and the
US with Senate hearings that appeared to suggest the US is not going to move
to outlaw it but rather regulate it. I do not see the US government giving its
citizens the impression that using BitCoin would be legitimate and then going
back on that suggestion - there would be too many vested interests, with a lot
to lose, and they would not be cool with that.

The Chinese government is more powerful than the US government, however. There
is a chance that they could see their citizens pour their savings into BitCoin
and still move for a regulatory crackdown. I'm still concerned that they will
believe BitCoin is getting out of control and their ability to control the
funds exiting and entering the country through BitCoin is diminished.

The bottom line: the more countries that start using BitCoin, that more stable
it will become, the less a single country's regulatory action will impact the
price.

------
celticninja
It is not practically impossible to buy bitcoins. It may take a little effort
that is all and even then it is minimal effort if you spend any time at a
computer.

Localbitcoins.com – You can buy bitcoins from other individuals either in
person or using bank transfer. There is an escrow system in place for
protection of buyer and seller. Using bank transfer you dont even need to
leave your house, you can do it via online banking.

BTC-e.com – This exchange does not require verification to deposit money or
trade but you may need to provide verification before you withdraw. I sent
pictures of my photo driving licence and a photo of a utility bill and was
verified within 48 hours.

Bitstamp – you need to be be verified before you can deposit money. Follow the
rules they lay down re: high quality scan and photo and you will be fine.

MtGox – Same as above, follow the rules and it is fine. Verification did at
one time (April bubble) take a few weeks, it is much more reasonable now.

These are 3 of the exchanges but there are others such as Kraken, Coinbase
etc.

~~~
pieterhg
So I tried Bitstamp 3 times and was denied all the times. I'm not a noob in
this respect, I know what a good scan is and I've used this passport scan
(front+back) for many other services. They're just not good at verifying docs
there.

~~~
coldtea
Not to mention that the requirement sending hi quality scans of your passport
and other personal details to small, obscure websites, like Bitstamp and
MtGox, is BS in the first place.

~~~
gaadd33
I think that's the result of anti-money laundering laws and know your customer
regulations.

~~~
coldtea
The "send your password scan" perhaps, the "to some obscure web services"
though is not.

~~~
celticninja
they are not obscure if you know anything regarding bitcoin, they are the main
exchanges.

To people with no knowldge of the internet amazon may be an obscure site but
you send them yur credit card details

------
mrb
Here are options the author, and people in general, fail to consider:

1\. Sell a good/service on craigslist and require payment in bitcoins. You
_will_ find a buyer in a big city. If necessary, even buy an item typically in
high demand by bitcoin owners (eg. computer gear) specifically for the purpose
of reselling it!

2\. Or buy coins directly from people, see
[https://localbitcoins.com](https://localbitcoins.com)

~~~
jethro_tell
This is kinda true but at lease on your first point still not for regular
people. My brother wants to buy some and If I told him, "yeah just go get a
pile of asics and sell them on craigslist" I'm sure that would be just as
difficult for him. Then he needs to keep a wallet, regular backups and a
marginal level of network security.

~~~
mrb
By computer gear I mean a mouse, monitor, hard drive, etc. Not ASICs.

------
koevet
I don't agree. The first time I acquired bitcoins it was through this website:
[https://localbitcoins.com](https://localbitcoins.com) I signed up, posted a
request for a meeting and two hours later I met a guy at a main station of a
European capital where I got my bitcoins. Few days later I signed up for
MtGox. Again, the verification process took around 24 hours and from that
point I was able to buy and sell bitcoins using my regular bank account.

~~~
mpg33
Same here...localbitcoins was very easy.

~~~
Guest2931
Is this really practical for mainstream use though? If I want to buy a single
bitcoin, I need to meet a stranger and bring $1,000 in cash? If this is the
recommended method of acquiring bitcoins, it deserves to fail.

~~~
nathan_f77
You don't need to buy a whole bitcoin. These aren't shares in a company. You
can bring $50 and buy a fraction of a bitcoin.

------
sixQuarks
Serious question: What's to prevent me, as a US citizen, to buy bitcoins on
Coinbase, then setup an online store where I sell bitcoins at a 10-20% markup,
payable by credit card?

1\. I realize I'd be taking a risk with chargbacks. Any way to minimize this?
Perhaps hold onto the bitcoin for a period of time?

Seems like the demand from ordinary people is so high, they wouldn't mind
paying $100 - $200 per bitcoin if they can pay with a credit card.

~~~
modeless
Even if you weren't bankrupted by chargebacks, which you definitely would be,
the credit card companies would shut down your account. They don't want people
buying bitcoins; it's a threat to them.

~~~
cdcarter
It's simpler and less conspiratorial than that. It's the same reason you can't
buy a money order or cashier's check with a credit card. You're not selling a
product, you're creating a situation where your customer can get a cash
advance on a line of credit that you did not approve.

------
habosa
I have been trying to buy Bitcoins for a few years, it's way too hard. When I
was in high school learning programming I wanted to buy them because I heard
you could trade with Python scripts. They were $0.30 at the time and I tried
to put in ~$50 (if only!). Today I still want to put in $50 - $100 but I can't
because as a college student I don't have proof of residence. I have a
passport and bank account but I still can't get on Mt. Gox. Sure I can get on
Coinbase and buy, but why would I buy something I can't register to sell?

~~~
dariopy
What are you talking about? You can buy AND sell in coinbase.

~~~
XorNot
If you're in the US and if you don't get denied as a high risk transaction and
then maybe a few weeks later you might see some money.

The story of Bitcoin is practically no-one seems able to cash out at the
reported rates - you're lucky to get about 1/3rd of that.

~~~
antocv
Its the "exchanges" and "trade platforms" of BTC that are the driving force of
the scam.

------
josephagoss
Try CoinJar in Australia, very good company for buying and selling Bitcoin.

Remember do not use their wallet service for holding large amounts of Bitcoin,
even the owner of the business recommends keeping most of your coin in a cold
wallet.

~~~
Springtime
Hmm, from some posts on the bitcointalk forums it seems to be run by a
previous scammer. Some people have had luck using it though, so ymmv I guess.

Edit: yup, see all the links here:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1gb0d4/coinjar_fill...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1gb0d4/coinjar_filler_the_cheapest_way_to_buy_bitcoins/camlhmz)

~~~
josephagoss
I use it for transfer only and never store Bitcoins on their server.

------
foobarqux
When the primary way of trading bitcoin is through unregulated exchanges based
in Slovenia and Bulgaria the bigger concern should be your ability to get your
money out in the future.

------
ep3p6
For those in Vancouver, we (Coinwaves) just opened a physical Bitcoin exchange
in Gastown to address this problem. It seems online exchanges are still
dealing with how to balance fraud-protection and customer convenience. We
thought that, for now, an in-person approach made a lot of sense.

We're focusing not only about helping people purchase Bitcoins easily, but
also educating them on the technology and methods of safely storing and using
Bitcoin. We're also keen to impart the notion that Bitcoin is more than a mere
speculative instrument, but a potentially world-changing technology.

Any Bitcoin enthusiasts in town, whether or not you're looking to buy, give us
a shout!

Link: [http://www.coinwaves.com/](http://www.coinwaves.com/)

------
krelian
It was too much of hassle to buy back when I first heard about it. They were
$3 at the time. I didn't really believe it would take off but if it were easy
to buy I would have definitely bought $50 worth "just in case".

------
Ellipsis753
Hello. I'm happy to sell bitcoins to anyone who is within the UK. If you're
near Brighton we can trade face-to-face for cash. Otherwise just email we and
we can do a bank transfer. My email is Shanee753@gmail.com . I have a large
number of reviews which I can provide. Personally I normally buy my own from
an IRC channel on Freenode called bitcoin-otc-uk. Feel free to ask me any
questions. It's not too tricky to trade but can be a bit difficult to get
into.

~~~
antihero
I too am in Brighton,! Don't have any cash at the moment, but I'm definitely
interested in Bitcoin as a thing once I have some surplus money.

------
berkes
This is mostly because people confuse a trading-floor with an exchange. When
you travel to, say, Thailand for a holiday, you don't walk into Wallstreet to
trade some Dollars for Baht. Instead, you exchange some at an airport of
office around the corner. MtGox (and the likes) are like that wall-street.
Whereas there are a lot of smaller places to actually buy some BTC, alike that
office at the airport.

Yes. When you exchange Dollars for Baht, you will pay a lot more then the
average rate that goes on Wallstreet at that moment. And yes, you cannot trade
millions of Dollars for Bazillion of Baht. In .nl, for example, there are
places where you can buy with a Dutch bank account. Works fine if you want to
trade a few tens of Euros.

Stop pointing people to full-blown trading-platforms when all they want is a
few BTC. Instead, point them to alternatives, including your personal wallet
on your android :).

I, usually, explain people that they can have a few millibit, but not for
Euro: the'yll have to sell me something: a bottle of wine, crate of beer,
stuff that I would buy anyway. So that I can say that I bought beer with
Bitcoin, and to show others that there is actually stuff you can buy for it,
rather then purely some get-rich-quick-stockmarket.

------
thinkcomp
Keep in mind that there are no legally compliant Bitcoin exchanges that
support deposits or withdrawals in the United States. This means that their
(and your) assets could be frozen by regulators at any point in time with no
prior notice.

------
wellboy
Not really, just use [http://virwox.com/](http://virwox.com/) and you can
Bitcoins through credit card or paypal instantly.

There is a daily account limit though of $110 for new accounts, after 10 days
of $150 etc.

~~~
rsiqueira
I've just tried VirWox and unfortunately I was not able to buy bitcoins there
since there is a minimum of bitcoins that I need to buy (this was not informed
in their FAQ). So I'm requesting that they refund my paypal payment. Let's see
what will happen..

~~~
rsiqueira
EDIT: Fortunately VirWox was nice to refund the Paypal payment that I made
since the amount that I deposited there was not enough to buy Bitcoins with
it.

~~~
wellboy
Why didn't you wait another day, deposit the same amount and then buy the
minimum amount, I think it's 0.1 BTC, is it?

------
josu
Although I agree with many things that the author says, I wouldn't say
practically impossible.

I, myself, have bought bitcoins and set up wallets for two friends and a
family member, regular people as the author would say. After seriously warning
them, and letting them know that chances are that they will lose all their
investment, they transferred me the money and I gave them the instructions for
the wallet.

However, I believe that the more the bitcoin economy grows the easier will be
for people to acquire them. I also hope that people will start spending them,
instead of just keeping them as an investment.

------
lucb1e
I never had any of these problems, nor does anyone I know have them. My and
everyone's applications at Mt.Gox and Bitstamp and elsewhere have always been
accepted, as far as I know. And there are of course alternatives like
Localbitcoins or in the Netherlands you can pay using iDeal (e.g. at
bitonic.nl) which is _extremely_ easy. A 5 minute deal the first time around.
I also never encountered any trouble buying Bitcoin simply for being European.
So far I actually thought the people in the US would be having a harder time
with the MtGox trouble.

------
warrenmiller
Just got to [https://localbitcoins.com/](https://localbitcoins.com/) and buy
some online by bank transfer, it takes about 15 minutes. It's not rocket
science.

~~~
imrehg
Good luck with that if there are no-one in your "local" selling coins, just
buying. That's my case.

------
aw3c2
Same experience here. I wanted to grab some Litecoin last week as people
started speculating with them as well but I won't totally give up my privacy
to shady websites for some gambling.

~~~
aestra
The only practical way to buy litecoins right now is buying bitcoins first,
then buying litecoins with bitcoins.

~~~
elliottcarlson
You can also buy LTC on BTCe by using something like MoneyGram - walk in to a
CVS/Duane Reade with cash and you will have LTC right away.

------
bit4coin
For exactly this reason we have founded
[https://bit4coin.net](https://bit4coin.net) in Amsterdam - an easy-to-use
bitcoin gift voucher service. Customers can buy vouchers online (later also in
retail shops), and we ship them to their doors. They can then redeem them for
bitcoins.

We felt we had to make bitcoin more tangible for new users and put it in a
form they are already familiar with and attribute value to: gift cards.

Would love to get some feedback from you guys!

------
iSnow
Considering how the price is doing even though it is really hard to buy the
things, I shudder to think what would happen if you could buy them at your
local bank branch.

~~~
wcummings
I've paid for BTC with a bank deposit before. Unsure if any exchanges still
offer this

~~~
aestra
Plenty of private sellers still do.

------
sixQuarks
Could I setup a small kiosk at a heavily populated area and sell bitcoins for
cash and/or money orders? Any regulations in SF against something like this?

~~~
nathan_f77
I think you could, and you should.

------
RossM
At some point, Barclays Pingit (a UK mobile payment service) provided a
service to buy Bitcoin by sending cash to services that supported it (you can
send cash to a telephone number if it maps up to a bank account). However it
was always down when I looked. The only alternative seemed to be wire
transfers and escrow which I wasn't interested in dealing with.

------
jotaass
How about a Bitcoin ATM machine? [https://lamassu.is/](https://lamassu.is/)

------
drcross
The very first sentence shows that the author does not know what he's talking
about. Tulips manic is not an accurate comparison because the number of
Bitcoins can't be increased except through mining which is a predetermined
rate. Tulips can easily be increased by planting more.

~~~
gwern
> Tulips can easily be increased by planting more.

Please see
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6763421](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6763421)

------
wereHamster
I didn't have any trouble at all. Signed up on bitstamp.com, took two days to
verify my account. Money which I sent to them (via bank transfer) was credited
to my account the next day. All in all a pretty painless experience.

Edit: I live in Switzerland, Bitstamp based in UK or Slovenia.

------
tzakrajs
Coinbase makes it really simple. In a week, without ID verification I received
my BTC.

~~~
pieterhg
Coinbase is US-only though?

------
aosmith
I'm yet to hear of anyone denying verification. I've had accounts at BTC-E,
CampBX, Bitstamp, and Coinbase to name a few. Haven't had a single issue
getting verified anywhere and most took less than a week.

------
bernatfp
This is actually a good analogy to doing a startup.

Many people _want_ to buy bitcoins, but only the ones that are really commited
to doing so succeed.

It's very easy to say you wanted to buy Bitcoin, but did you really try that
hard?

------
mamcx
I was to buy my first bitcoin. Then the bank tell me is absolute forbidden to
make bank transfer to any thing that look alike a forex stuff. Or get money
for them. Criminal, you are...

Here, in Colombia, all banks do the same.

------
nocoin
Coinbase?

[https://coinbase.com/?r=508ae579ead0660200000066&utm_campaig...](https://coinbase.com/?r=508ae579ead0660200000066&utm_campaign=user-
referral&src=referral-link)

------
thom
Easiest way I've found in the UK is buying Magic: the Gathering Online tickets
via PayPal and trading them for Bitcoin. I dunno if this is the way the future
was supposed to be, but it works for me.

------
dfraser992
this guy is not doing something right, or the fact he lives in 10 different
places around the world is a factor. I had no trouble at all, beyond waiting a
few days for MtGox to verify me (when they were swamped at the time), and
Bitstamp was a day's wait after I fixed the PNG they wanted (not enough dpi
for their automated document scanner). That was just a week or two ago.

so to me, all his reasons are specious ones. Maybe I'm just old enough to know
how to deal with all the paperwork the Man / the Matrix wants.

~~~
pieterhg
I'm a Dutch citizen with a Dutch bank account (with online banking) who can do
European transfers with ease. It doesn't matter where I live, as far as this
concerned I'm the same as any Dutch/European citizen.

------
Havoc
Its even worse outside the US. Most places require a (US) bank transfer. That
just isn't feasible for me...I need at least a SWIFT code and would still get
hit with heavy fees.

------
spiralpolitik
Should be retitled "It's practically impossible for people in my country to
buy Bitcoin" as the generalization defeats the point of the article as at
least for 300 million people (some of whom are "regular"), the process of
buying bitcoin is no more difficult than the process of signing up for a
PayPal account.

If you are not one of these countries then contacting your
representative/member of parliament and asking them to campaign the
legislation changed is generally a much better way of getting the situation
resolved than writing whiny articles on the internet.

------
vldr
[http://bitmymoney.com](http://bitmymoney.com) is an easy way to get bitcoins
in the Netherlands (and possibly Europe)

------
dariopy
That's what coinbase is for. Pretty easy to register and get verified... if
you happen to be in the US of A (or own a bank account there, anyway).

------
peteretep
?!

In the US, Coinbase is easy In the UK, Bittylicious is easy

I'm sorry it's so hard in Germany, but your title should be "It's hard to buy
Bitcoins in Germany"

~~~
pieterhg
I'm not from Germany, but Netherlands. But your point stands if you're talking
about everywhere outside UK/US.

~~~
guard-of-terra
From Russia (and Ukraine perhaps) it's like very straightforward too. You just
set up a btc-e.com account and send in cash via Qiwi.

There are a lot of local services mentioned in the comments, so it seems. If
there aren't in Netherlands why don't you create one?

------
teringnering
People in the EU should really try bitcoin.de. This is a reputation based
marketplace. First level of verification is not hard, taking 2 days.

------
je2f101
Why are prices for bitcoins so drastically different on the different
exchanges? Shouldn't arbitrage fix this nearly right away.

------
xeroxmalf
For Canadians, there is Cavirtex. I had no problem becoming verified with
them, and it was as simple as becoming say PayPal verified.

------
wcummings
"But verification can take weeks or months and the odds of getting accepted
are actually low"

This is simply not the case, at least in the US

------
zik
This is only really true in America. I've bought bitcoins two different ways
in Australia. It wasn't that hard.

------
vsviridov
OP seems to fail to grasp the fact that bitcoin is not issued by some bank,
but rather individuals in the network.

So to avoid the pitfall of "going to the bank to buy foreign currency" would
be buying bitcoin from the individuals. There's #OTC and LocalBitcoins.com and
the like that put individuals together to figure out best means of transfer.
It carries risks, or course, but what doesn't?

~~~
smackfu
There are certainly degrees of risk. Like buying something from craigslist for
cash is riskier than buying the same thing from a retailer.

------
drawkbox
If there was ever a time for Coinbase to go global, this is their moment to
take over.

------
foobarqux
Anyway have information about withdrawal delays on the different exchanges?

------
Fuxy
Does coinbase work in the UK? I thought it was US only.

------
awidegreen
what about [https://safello.com/](https://safello.com/) ? worked perfect for
me - at least here in sweden.

------
huangbong
localbitcoins.com

------
antocv
Even these comments here are full of obstacles. Its like techies are so into
btc they cant comprehend an article stating a real problem witb bitcoin. Its
supposed to be easy but it isnt, all these btc exchanges/markers/sites are
worse than normal banking/trade sites.

No I havent handed my photo to my bank and I wont do so for all the shady btc
sites mentioned here. I dont hand my ID or "get verified" to amazon when
buying stuff or other currencies either.

Bitcoin is the worlds biggest scam.

EDIT: Aside from the verification many of the exchanges actually dont deliver
BTC to your own wallet but provide the kind "service" of keeping "your" wallet
at their servers.

~~~
user24
I was with you until the final sentence, which makes you sound emotionally
involved rather than putting forward a logical argument.

That aside, let me retort;

> Its supposed to be easy but it isnt

I agree, and I'll be hugely surprised if some enterprising individual doesn't
solve the friction soon.

> No I havent handed my photo to my bank and I wont do so for all the shady
> btc sites mentioned here. I dont hand my ID or "get verified" to amazon when
> buying stuff or other currencies either.

I agree. I used bitbargain which was essentially as easy - and documentation
free - as using my internet banking to transfer some funds to some bloke's
bank account, who then released coin to me. It made me nervous doing it (what
other system asks you to log in to your internet banking and xfer funds to
some guy's account, simply trusting that they will deliver?) but it's about as
easy as it gets currently.

It's a new frontier, it's bound to be rough around the edges. And make no
mistake, buying BTC is the edge. Once you've passed that hurdle, the
simplicity is beautiful.

~~~
jethro_tell
So is the easy way to do it an escrow service that can protect you from
getting jacked using the same method?

~~~
user24
I'm not sure escrow services exist (yet). I don't know how exchanges work,
having only bought on bitbargain, and never sold.

------
notdrunkatall
A few months ago, I decided to buy some bitcoin. I did a little research,
ended up on coinbase, and linked my bank account and my phone number, and a
few days later, I owned a few bitcoin. It was a pretty straightforward
process, and as far as I know, they're the _only_ straightforward way to buy
bitcoin.

I predict that in a few years, Coinbase will be a billion dollar concern as
long as they keep doing a good job and their system isn't compromised. Keep it
up!

------
snitko
I would like to point everyone's attention to the fact that the difficulty of
buying bitcoins has to do with the current banking system and regulations, not
with Bitcoin itself. If you could buy bitcoins by swiping your card, its price
would currently be more like $100k, not $1k. Accepting Bitcoin and trading in
Bitcoin are the easiest things in the world.

~~~
SyneRyder
Accepting Bitcoin isn't quite that easy, if your customers are expecting
instant real-time online fulfillment. Bitcoin 'merchant accounts' are showing
up to make things easier than they were years ago, but there's still some code
integration required on a website's backend to make it all happen.

