
What I learned about solitude from my time with hermits - kevbam
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/06/hermits-solitude-wilderness-new-mexico
======
jasode
An observation about hermits...

If one skips sexual companionship, you get the 27-year total isolation like
Christopher Knight.

However, if one allows that one activity of procreation, he can suddenly
become a _hermit hiding in plain sight_ that nobody calls a "hermit".

An example of that would be my friend's dad. Because my home life wasn't
always the most joyful, I spent a lot of time at my friend's house. His dad
was a doctor so they had a big enough house where we could play and make
noises without bothering the parents. Anyway, I noticed that his dad _never_
went out with his buddies for golf or have colleagues over for drinks. He
shared a private practice with 3 other doctors but they never came over. His
only outings were walking to a nearby creek to fish with one of his kids.

As another example, his dad would spend $100 for a pay-per-view boxing match
but the only people watching was the 3 of us: his dad, my friend, and me. Many
other guys that spend $$$ on a pay-per-view would use it as an event to invite
all their friends to get maximum mileage out of it.

Growing up around him, the repeated description was _" he's extremely
reserved"_ \-- as in _" yeah, my dad is extremely reserved and private"_. Now
that I'm a lot older and share many of the same traits of extreme
introversion, I can look back and sum up his disposition as "hermit in plain
sight". Having a family fooled a lot of people. Instead of "hermit", you get
more society-approved labels such as "dedicated family man".

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I think when you say hermit you mean a recluse (and probably in the OP too),
someone who separates themselves from society, if they do it for
religious/philosophical reasons then I'd call them a hermit.

Did your friends dad ever get invited to your own parents' house, did he go?
Perhaps he just had no friends rather than choosing to be a recluse?

I match the description you give of your friends dad quite well, except
without the money. I've one friend who'll send a birthday card, none that will
ring me and suggest we hang out; I try to do things for my children to
encourage them not to fall in to my pattern (perhaps that's what the pay-per-
view was, a treat for his son and you?).

I like people, enjoy shared work to a common goal, get involved when I can
with things like helping out at school clubs and Scout events (was previously
a leader with Cub Scouts) but somehow things just don't really work; I have
social anxieties that inhibit me contacting others but I think I can be
reasonably good company.

"Dedicated family men" seem entirely orthogonal to the matter at hand. To me
it's an epithet - mostly used for dead people - to say they spent time with
their kids and put them before other things like their career.

~~~
dasil003
> _To me it 's an epithet - mostly used for dead people - to say they spent
> time with their kids and put them before other things like their career._

It's an epithet to put your family before your career? Wow, I pity anyone who
views life that way.

 _Edit: Ah, didn 't realize epithet could be non-negative, in that case it
makes sense_

~~~
dasmoth
_" an adjective or phrase expressing a quality or attribute regarded as
characteristic of the person or thing mentioned."_

 _Some_ epithets are negative. But certainly not all.

~~~
wavefunction
At least in the Homeric epics epithets were used as mnemonic devices for oral
story-tellers and their audience to keep track of who was who, like 'swift-
footed Achilles':

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

Apparently the Greeks got this from earlier Indo-European traditions.

------
Renaud
Being an hermit doesn't automatically make you insightful. There are various
reasons for someone to live away from everyone else. Some of these have to do
with mental health.

I have the sentiment that without some philosophical reason underpinning and
supporting that choice, and without good self-control and a balanced mind, you
are more likely to waste away than gain any meaningful insight.

Solitude is great. Loneliness sucks.

~~~
AnimalMuppet

      It's the fear of silence
      That gives us away
      Cause when we're alone
      We have to hear
      What our aching hearts try to say.
      -- Randy Stonehill
    

If you're looking for a chance to see what's going on in your heart, solitude
can be great, and can give some insight. If you're just running from people,
well, when you go to solitude you still bring one person with you - yourself.
That can ruin the peacefulness of the solitude...

------
Mitchhhs
Who assumes that hermits are insightful? Thats definitely not my connotation
and the fact that the author goes in with this supposition is weird.

The general vibe of the assumptions feels like a bunch of privileged
millennials going to become hermits for 6 months and then talk about all they
learned from their solitude on their Harvard Business School essays and how it
shaped them into a better leader.

~~~
msla
> Who assumes that hermits are insightful?

Centuries of ascetic mysticism and veneration of same disagree with your
skepticism.

As for your scorn for privileged people becoming hermits and thinking they
gained something from the experience...

I'd laugh, but that's literally the foundation of one of the great world
religions.

------
dasmoth
This has been posted a few times before, but when I think about living alone,
it's the story of Paul Lutus that comes to mind:

[http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/cottage_computer_programmi...](http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/cottage_computer_programming.php)

------
JoshMnem
I had planned to become a hermit when younger. I studied "hunter gatherer
living skills" for many years, intending to do it all without any modern
technology. ([https://goo.gl/CACwPc](https://goo.gl/CACwPc)) Life took me in
unexpected directions, and I ended up writing computer programs and organizing
online/offline communities instead.

This is a good quote from the article:

 _" It is better to live among the crowd and keep a solitary life in your
spirit than to live alone with your heart in the crowd."_

------
wbracken
This guy knew how to do solitude:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke)

------
cerealbad
some people enjoy good food and drink, the company of others, to sing and
dance and laugh; to love and hate in one breath, and feel the passions of life
like a spark across their skin.

some people enjoy problem solving in a dynamic environment with limited
resources; relying on self-sufficient generative skills, careful planning and
patience in the face of cascading life threatening circumstances.

most people overlap. you can hardly be expected to enjoy yourself all the
time, what's the fun in fun.

------
peterwwillis
You can find solitary people in a big city, too. But if you have a respect for
nature, it would make sense to get out into the outdoors.

The really sad thing is it's difficult to be alone in the wilderness. You have
to cross check maps with flight paths so when you're in the middle of some
remote mountain range you don't have to listen to the drone of planes flying
overhead dozens of times a day, or the passage of cars on a highway
reverberating off canyon walls, or the buzz of electric wires crisscrossing
the countryside.

~~~
afterburner
Wow, never thought of that, especially the flight path one. No reason for
airlines to care about a supposedly empty patch of land. Although if you're
far enough from an airport, they're probably high enough not to bother you.

------
Mikeb85
> In the west, the idea has had a profound cultural impact. Peter France
> explores this in his book Hermits, attributing the creation of monasticism
> to the example set by the earliest Christian hermits, the Desert Fathers of
> Egypt.

I'm curious why, given this little bit of insight, he never sought out any
hermit monks? I personally know of an Orthodox Christian hermitage in Canada
that's the real deal, not to mention there's plenty of Orthodox hermit monks
in places like Greece, Russia, Romania, Egypt, and elsewhere... Not sure if
there's any true Catholic hermit monks, but I'd guess there are. Instead we
get this fluff piece about visiting an angry, drunk man who wanted to escape
society, and obviously just became crazy rather than gaining any sort of
insight.

~~~
antognini
The Carthusian monks are probably the closest to hermits in the Catholic
Church. They spend almost all of their time alone in their cells. Although
they don't take a formal vow of silence, unnecessary talking is discouraged.
The one exception is that they take a communal walk on Mondays where they're
allowed to talk about whatever they want.

(As an aside, for anyone interested in their lives, there's a great
documentary called Into Great Silence. It's long and has no narration, but
there's a great scene at the very end where it shows the monks on one of their
Monday walks going sledding in the Alps.)

------
qxzw
J.D. Salinger, Syd Barrett... I hate it when pop culture romanticizes
isolation. These people need help. Good example is Christopher McCandless
(movie: Into The Wild), whose decomposing body weighed only 30 kilograms when
it was found.

On one hand you have Zarathustra, the sage coming down from mountain after 10
years of meditation to spread the wisdom. On the other hand you have everyone
else, decaying, dying slowly and suffering in silence.

------
autogn0me
Sam Harris said it well, "We spend our entire life seeking out pleasure and
avoiding pain." In my opinion if you are going into solitude for avoiding pain
- the pain will continue. Like others here have posted: your heart (emotions,
thoughts, etc) follow you.

There is a show on Youtube by BBC _Extreme Pilgrim_ that is pretty good first
hand documentation of solitude in 3 different traditions or flavors. Think the
guy spends 3 weeks in each location in solitude.

I believe if I were to start this sort of exercise I would attend some sort of
Vipassana retreat. This way I would have some framework for managing thought.
I could not imagine going out into nature and having mind relentlessly "work
its way through things".

------
pbhjpbhj
Interesting he mentions religious _communities_ along with hermits, they seem
very divergent to me. A monk is normally a part of a tight knit community
working towards common goals. They also talk about hermits being constantly
visited by people for them to take advice, that doesn't sound like my notion
of a hermit at all? Not much solitude if you're continually advising others.

~~~
Mikeb85
A hermitage is a type of monastery that goes back to the origins of
monasticism. Hermit monks generally live in complete solitude on the outskirts
of the monastery to pray/meditate for days, weeks or even months at a time,
then come together for certain liturgical celebrations.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
To me a hermitage is just a hermits home?

What are the recorded origins of monasticism? The Ancient Greeks formed
intentional communities around philosophies/religion I think but I doubt they
were the first?

Hermits forming an intentional community still seems too contradictory to make
sense to me.

~~~
Mikeb85
> Hermits forming an intentional community still seems too contradictory to
> make sense to me.

In Christianity you have liturgical events which are meant to be communal, for
example, communion must be done with multiple people present. Not to mention
certain holidays. That's why hermits, although they live on the outskirts of
society and are solitary, generally keep a minimal amount of contact with
others.

> What are the recorded origins of monasticism? The Ancient Greeks formed
> intentional communities around philosophies/religion I think but I doubt
> they were the first?

Depends on whether or not you consider mythological religious figures, and
some religions which didn't commit things to writing. But some of the earlier
communities would be Greek yes, and also Indian monastics within the sramanic
movements (Buddhism/Jainism). There's also semi-historical figures in Chinese
Daoist mythology who lived as hermits/monastics, druids and shamans in some
religions were reclusive and likely had a practice which resembled
monasticism, etc...

Within Christianity it of course started with the Desert Fathers who were
emulating St. John the Baptist as well as applying some of Jesus' exhortations
literally.

