
Ploopy: An Open-Source Trackball - zdw
https://www.ploopy.co
======
jnellis
Some of us have been waiting for this trackball. Not just any trackball, this
particular and exacting design of trackball. Twenty years ago Microsoft came
out with a $35 trackball called the Microsoft Trackball Explorer. The single
most awesome input device ever designed. Then for some reason they stopped
selling them. The price for used ones and lost inventory has been increasing
ever since. Just check out the amazon page for it. Read some of the reviews.

[https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-D68-00007-Trackball-
Explore...](https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-D68-00007-Trackball-
Explorer/dp/B00005853Z/)

Over those twenty years I've acquired three of them for parts. Two of the
people I've gotten them from asked to buy them back once they spent time
without them. The design is simply that amazing and to think it came from
Microsoft and was originally $35, often a combo buy with their 'web' keyboard.
So it will be interesting to see how much this reverse engineered version will
feel like the original.

~~~
mkl
These and the Ploopy are right-hand use only, which seems unfortunate. I use
trackballs with my left hand (I am right handed, but on the left is much
closer to the letter keys, and my right hand joints are worse).

I currently use a Kensington Expert Mouse (well, three of them!), which
despite the name is a trackball. It has a great ambidextrous design, and a
scroll ring that's really easy to use (you can use thumb and finger to walk it
around, or go round and round without lifting your finger). That
Microsoft/Ploopy scroll wheel would destroy my thumb in no time.

I previously used several (cheaper) Logitech TrackMan Marbles, which have a
smaller ball, but their main problem is the lack of scrollwheel/ring.

~~~
Terretta
Cheap trick: keyboards without numeric keypad.

Also die hard Kensington Expert Mouse user, it sits immediately right of my
Return key, drastically reducing motion needed to use.

// For those reading along, if you haven’t used this device, it’s amazing for
accurate work on dual 4K screens. The trackball is the size and weight of a
billiards ball, so you can “fling” the cursor with physical momentum, yet due
to its diameter, position with sub pixel accuracy.

~~~
virusduck
This is my current setup (Expert Mouse + numpad(-) keyboard). However, it was
kind of hard to find a good keyboard without the numpad. Lucky for me, I'm one
of those people who kind of likes the Mac wireless keyboards, so that's what
I've got going now. (I also had a similar cheap wired chicklet keyboard, but
the 'a' stopped working reliably).

What keyboard did you settle on?

~~~
Terretta
Kinesis Freestyle Pro:

[https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle-pro/](https://kinesis-
ergo.com/shop/freestyle-pro/)

Goldtouch:

[https://www.goldtouch.com/ergonomic-
keyboards/](https://www.goldtouch.com/ergonomic-keyboards/)

------
mhd
I used trackballs pretty heavily years ago, but as that was a TrackMan Marble
(PS/2, three buttons, no friggin scrollwheel), I got some issues with my thumb
after a few years.

I used a _huge_ old one for a while (with a serial adapter I think), which
probably could've accepted a billard ball as a substitute. After a while, you
got pretty intuitive and just "threw" it in the right direction, then made a
minor adjustment. Loved it.

I also remember when it was all the rage with FPS players…

~~~
xenonite
Actually, I am a huge fan of Logitech's TrackMan Marble Mouse and can
recommend it wholeheartedly. I use it since about 20 years, renewing it every
couple of years. I am sorry for your thumb, I luckily haven't had problems
yet.

Before that, I have used various trackballs (Microsoft Trackball Explorer,
several Kensington, Logitech Cordless Optical TrackMan) but came to stick with
the TrackMan Marble. Especially, I dislike those requiring the pointer finger
for clicking - I prefer the pointer finger to move the pointer. It is much
more precise. Leaves the strong thumb to thumb the button.

And for the question on scrolling: I press one of the small buttons, then
scroll using the ball both horizontally and vertically. This can be configured
in Windows, macOS, and X.

~~~
mhd
Logitech is horrible when it comes to names, apparently every trackball they
make is a "Trackman Marble". I think you're talking about the ambidextrous one
with two big buttons, two small buttons and the ball in the middle.

I had the one where the trackball is operated by the thumb[1], which was quite
great, at least until I "felt" it. Probably not that bad, but I was worried
enough about RSI, and had to use a mouse at work anyway...

I actually bought one of the ones you mentioned recently, let's see how that
works.

As for scrolling, I only rarely use a scroll wheel and do most of my paging
with the keyboard, so I always missed a proper third middle button more. So
the original design was quite close to my heart. (I also once had a Kensington
trackball where you scrolled with a ring set around the ball. Not that great
for scrolling, but I think I managed to connect it to the volume in Linux back
then…)

[1]: [https://i.imgur.com/K8tDHfN.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/K8tDHfN.jpg)

------
xenonite
This leaves room for a trackball that requires the pointer finger to move the
pointer. This way of pointing feels much more precise, and leaves the strong
thumb to thumb the main button.

And for the question on scrolling: let me press an additional button that
enables scrolling with the ball, both horizontally and vertically.

The Logitech TrackMan Marble would, in my opinion, be a wonderful example for
such a trackball. (Here, the described scrolling behavior can be configured
with the Logitech driver on Windows, with Karabiner on macOS, and by mapping a
scroll modifier button in xorg.conf setting in X, see
[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Marble_Mouse#S...](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Marble_Mouse#Scroll_modifier)
)

~~~
sdrothrock
> And for the question on scrolling: let me press an additional button that
> enables scrolling with the ball, both horizontally and vertically.

I mentioned this in another comment, but on macOS, there's a utility called
SteerMouse
([http://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/index.html](http://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/index.html))
that apparently supports chording for scrolling with the ball and is
compatible with a number of different trackballs.

Sadly, I've found that that particular feature isn't working properly on
Catalina with my Huge, but I contacted the dev and he said he's looking into
it. So fingers crossed...

------
iMarv
Doing pretty well with Logitechs MX Ergo which also looks more polished than
this open source alternative. I am fine with paying for closed source products
if they are good and can be used without a hassle.

~~~
rf15
afaik they still use cheap switches for the main buttons in those, which lead
to problems with the previous model of that line. (mostly the left mouse
button failing after 2y). I will still use them, but I am definitely looking
for a good alternative with better parts.

~~~
Krasnol
Mine must have or reach 2y soon. I got one just as it's been released for
work. Doing a lot CAD with it. Doesn't look like it's getting worse.

------
illuminati1911
I'll probably get crucified for this, but does someone actually want to use
trackball mouse? Has anyone even seen these after 1990s?

~~~
mistaken
I never had a trackball, so I'm curious about what benefits a trackball mouse
has. Why or why wouldn't you use it over a regular mouse?

~~~
TheDong
The main draw is that you don't have to move your entire hand / the mouse
along a surface.

That means your wrist sees less strain + motion, and you have no need for a
mouse-pad, to name two possible benefits. Some people find it to be more
precise as well, but I don't know if there's any evidence apart from personal
preference.

Of course, your wrist still moves some as you manipulate the ball with your
fingers, and if you use a trackpad you already don't need a mousepad-like-
surface.

~~~
pmarin
> Some people find it to be more precise as well, but I don't know if there's
> any evidence apart from personal preference.

On CAD applications is very annoying when the mouse unintentionally register a
movement while clicking a button which never happens with a trackball.

------
gorgoiler
What’s up with all the tiny metallic holes in their circuit board? It looks
like they are there waiting for components to be soldered in but the finished
product isn’t using them. Do they serve some other purpose?

~~~
frabert
Those are called "vias", they connect traces on the top copper layer to traces
on the bottom.

~~~
gorgoiler
Thanks! It looks like a lot of them have an associated circuit track and they
are placed where they are needed and not according to any kind of greater
pattern, which makes sense.

However, lots of others are placed regularly around the edges of curved
surfaces. Are they “via fences”, to block electromagnetic interference?

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_fence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_fence)

~~~
frabert
Could be! Sorry, I'm not an expert and I have not looked at the schematics...

EDIT: On further inspection, they look like they are "stitching" two copper
pours together, presumably ground or power, in order to decrease impedance
maybe.

~~~
gorgoiler
It could be this, mentioned in the schematic:

“Spark Gaps - Case: Since the case has gaps in it we expect [electrostatic
discharge] to worm it’s way in via creepage and perhaps other ways. To protect
the board from this eventuality, we place spark gaps along the edges.”

[https://github.com/ploopyco/mouse/blob/master/hardware/Elect...](https://github.com/ploopyco/mouse/blob/master/hardware/Electronics/Schematics/Base-R1_003.pdf)

So technically a via fence, but not quite as sophisticated.

------
anarcat
i would love to see one of those in the shape of the Kensington Expert Mouse,
the square mouse with the ball in the middle, with the scroll wheel as a ring
around the ball.

it's the best mouse I've ever used...

------
sheeshkebab
Microsoft should really do another batch of its Explorer trackball mouse -
paying >$500 for a used one makes me cringe, once mine finally bites the dust,
after almost 20 years of use.

------
orpheline
My personal favorite is an Elecom left-handed model:

ELECOM M-XT4DRBK Wireless Trackball mouse for Left-Handed, EX-G series L size
2.4GHz 6 buttons Black
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016QCPRBM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0j...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016QCPRBM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0jZPDbF7Y3G72)

I've got one at work, one at home: very comfortable and intuitive to use.

------
igetspam
Id probably be in if it were wireless. I miss my old trackman and the
Microsoft design was almost as good (for me). I don't have room for yet
another USB connected device. I already have two hubs feeding various
components and using a standing desk stand thing means I move the position of
the keyboard and mouse quite often. Love the design. Will keep watch. Thank
for sharing.

------
titchard
This is an interesting project - my first thought would be to flip it, as I am
left handed and would benefit from it being oriented that way.

~~~
mkl
I use trackballs left handed - there are several symmetrical ambidextrous
models available. I feel like I'm promoting overly much in this thread, so
please just see my other comments for what I use!

~~~
titchard
I have just found the one you use - will do some research! I do a lot of
Fusion 360 work and I always feel like a trackball would help.

------
dmitrygr
From the code repo
([https://github.com/ploopyco/mouse/blob/master/firmware/produ...](https://github.com/ploopyco/mouse/blob/master/firmware/production.ino)):

    
    
       // Startup delay. This sometimes prevents a USB handshake lockup.
       delay(1000);

~~~
yitchelle
Another gem at
([https://github.com/ploopyco/mouse/blob/master/firmware/SROM_...](https://github.com/ploopyco/mouse/blob/master/firmware/SROM_0x04_Arduino.ino))

    
    
        // This is the firmware that is uploaded to the PMW3360 each time the mouse starts up.
        // Don't mess with this. Just...just trust me. Don't do it.

~~~
SuperPaintMan
The irony of that comment is that me and buddy are porting QMK to it right now
and had to add to it :)

------
kstenerud
You'd have to buy up an awful lot of $25 Logitech trackmans over the years to
match the hefty $200 purchase price of one of these.

~~~
leovander
Don't let the folks over on deskthority, geekhack or r/mechanicalkeyboards
catch a whiff of this reasoning.

~~~
einr
Try finding _any_ kind of mechanical keyboard, no matter how old or for what
obscure platform, for $25 these days.

------
stuffbyspencer
I love open & new hardware stuff like this. Currently using an Ergo Dox
keyboard & I firmly believe it has saved me lots of wrist pain to date (plus I
look hella cool typing without looking now, and my WPM has gone up rather
nicely).

Excited to see who this fairs!

------
crtlaltdel
> Everything is there for you to see. What parts did we use? How did we design
> the case? What kind of swear words did we use in the firmware code? It's all
> there, including build documentation.

I must have missed the swear words...

~~~
throwaway744678
Didn't look at the code yet, but some Reddit usernames in the testimonials
section are spicy!

------
2muchcoffeeman
No minimal kit so I can print the case myself?

~~~
Crono
As a owner of a 3D Printer i was asking myself the exact same question. Also:
The printed parts on the pictures look ok, but not exactly good. I understand
that you have to take print time into consideration while mass production, but
this is a device that directly interacts with a users hand. Sanding is needed
in this case. Or: Printing it by myself in a decend resolution. Would be nice
to have this option and pay a bit less for the kit.

------
hlieberman
Soooold.

