
Atta Elayyan, Developer of MetroTube and LazyWorm Apps, Killed in Christchurch - twistedlogicx
https://www.dailyesports.gg/remembering-atta-elayyan-christchurch-shooting-victim/
======
twistedlogicx
He wasn't just a programmer. He was also a Counter-Strike: Source pro and a
legend of the New Zealand CS scene. He was a goalkeeper for the country's
national futsal team (indoor-soccer) and won two national titles and a player
of the year award. He was a car enthusiast who custom-built a beautiful BMW
and won the "Best V8 Engine" award at a show and shine competition. On top of
all of that, he was a programmer who founded LazyWorm Apps and developed apps
like MetroTube and Tweetro+. According to one of the lead software guys at
Microsoft, MetroTube was once the most popular app on the Windows store.

Most importantly, he was a father of a 2-year-old girl.

His loss is tragic and I had to write about it. I shared this elsewhere and I
was referred to this amazing place and asked to share it here as well, so I
did.

Thank you to anyone who reads his story.

~~~
vtange
It's insane how many really, really, good people we lose to tragedies like
this... 9/11 took away one of the founders of Akamai(the CDN company). Even
the recent 737 crash took away some really accomplished people from humanity.
It's a constant reminder of the fragility of life and how easily one can lose
a loved one or oneself these days.

~~~
eridius
It's insane how many people we lose to tragedies like this.

Every person is valuable. We shouldn't just lament the loss of people with
notable accomplishments. We should mourn every single person, and do what we
can to prevent this from happening again.

~~~
alexandre_m
"Every person is valuable"

That's a truism, no one would deny that.

But stories make a larger impact and are most valuable when you hear these
tragic events. Otherwise all you're left with is number of death counts, which
brings far less consideration for distant people, sadly.

~~~
benj111
I think a good point is raised about _why_ this guy. There were 50 people that
all had lives, but we picked on the tech guy. It ends up feeling mildly
disrespectful. Like we aren't remembering this guy _because_ of his
achievements, we're remembering him because of _how_ he died, and now he's
been reduced to his achievements.

I don't know. You could make a case that people in the community knew him, so
it makes sense to remember him. Maybe its 'good' that he had any positive
achievements worthy of note at all. Most deaths don't warrant even a footnote.

~~~
krapp
>There were 50 people that all had lives, but we picked on the tech guy. It
ends up feeling mildly disrespectful.

Let's be realistic - there being a "tech guy" is the only reason this story is
on topic. Hacker News is not supposed to be a place to discuss mainstream
events, however tragic they may be, or the deaths of people not relevant to
the tech community.

~~~
eridius
My comment wasn't complaining about HN focusing on the tech guy. It was
specifically a response to the sentiment

> _It 's insane how many really, really, good people we lose to tragedies like
> this_

A story about the tech guy is a reason to be on HN. But statements like the
above just serve to trivialize the deaths of those not deemed "really good
people".

------
wwweston
One common phrase I hear among people who are concerned about an equitable and
just world is "representation matters." Most often it seems to refer to
representation in civic office, or desirable employment positions, and the
effect that visibility has on someone's conception of their potential to shoot
for a position as a goal.

I wonder if it also matters more in profiles like this. It's a beautiful
portrait that highlights one dimension of the tragedy of the crime.

If we had more profiles like it that came well before eulogies, I wonder how
far it might go to beating back the tendency to flatten conceptions of Muslims
(or any ethnic/racial identity) to the kind of demonized status that's
required in order to plan a terrorist attack like Christchurch.

~~~
devoply
Exactly around the same time an American strike in Afghanistan killed a number
of children. That's justified violence which is political, this is unjustified
violence which though is aimed at the political is individual. To me both are
tragedies of similar magnitudes. One group lacking representation and
considered the "other" while another group considered a part of "us".

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/world/asia/airstrikes-
nan...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/world/asia/airstrikes-nangarhar-
afghanistan.html)

~~~
wwweston
The hazards of military action including the inevitable civilian casualties
(intended or not) are an important topic for consideration. And there's a good
case that US Citizens have grown way too complacent about them (and even if we
haven't, you check anyway, otherwise that's how you get too complacent).

But this isn't really a contest. Everyone's attention is finite, but my guess
is the overlap is pretty big between people who are stung by the horror and
senselessness of the Christchurch attack and people who are concerned about
the moral problems and fallout of military action.

~~~
devoply
Depends on how you frame the military violence. On the ground level there may
be no intention of causing harm to individual civilians. On the much larger
executive level it's about shock and awe, to beat the population into
capitulation. That's exactly the aim of this sort of violence. Shock and awe.
To this individual, this was shock and awe in service of his political
objectives.

It's violence with political aims. Violence with political aims is ultimately
a policing matter. You use better policing to snuff it out. Military
interfering in the affairs of other nations for political objectives is
inexcusable and should be deplored just as this is.

~~~
nradov
Shock and awe ended after the initial invasion. Current military leaders are
perfectly well aware that it's impossible to beat the population into
capitulation. Collateral damage is usually caused by incompetence, violations
of the rules of engagement, or a brutal calculation that some non-combatant
deaths are an acceptable price to take out a legitimate target.

~~~
mirimir
> acceptable price to take out a legitimate target.

No targets are legitimate for you, when you're the invader. You're the only
legitimate target.

~~~
saiya-jin
It sounds rough, and its something US citizens will probably never swallow or
accept, but in both Iraq and Afghanistan US is a pure force of evil as time
showed. Simple fact - the country and its citizens would be statistically far
better under horrible Taliban/Saddam rule rather than under very unstable and
increasingly marginal US rule. Taliban would not kill the amounts caused by
these invasions in 100 years, and children for example wouldn't be affected.
As for Iraq, Saddam would be a blessing compared to hell this country went
through in last 15 years since Bush jr. decided to please some powerful people
behind Rumsfeld and Cheney.

US lost both wars, beaten by poor guys with AKs, IEDs and suicide bombers.
Iraq is more complicated because its semi-functional but Afghanistan is lost
cause even according to US military.

~~~
mirimir
Indeed. In both Afghanistan and Iraq, the US initially supported agents who
were enemies of its enemies. But then those agents became enemies. And
innocent people suffered and died, all for power games.

In Afghanistan, the US initially supported the Taliban against the Soviets.
Just like in Vietnam. And then the CIA trained Osama and al-Qaeda, with
financial support from the Saudis. But once the Soviets were gone, the
downsides of the Taliban and al-Qaeda became evident. Oppression of women.
International operations. So the US invaded.

In Iraq, the US initially supported Saddam, because he was tough on
Communists, and not overtly Islamic. Like those nice Turks. Except that he was
rather fascist, but hey. And then they supported him against Iran, which had
thrown off US domination (i.e., the Shah) and frightened allies (Israelis and
Saudis). But then he pissed off the Saudis, and started talking too much about
international operations. So the US kicked them out of Kuwait, starved them
and sporadically bombed them for a few years, and finally invaded.

What a mess.

~~~
nradov
There is no evidence that US forces ever directly trained Osama bin Laden.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden#Opposing_view)

~~~
mirimir
That's not surprising. I mean, the CIA admittedly destroyed records about
torture in Iraq.

------
vowelless
إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ‎

Born in Kuwait a few years before the Invasion to a Palestinian family. They
probably escaped to NZ either due to the war or due to Kuwait's wrath against
Palestinians after the war [0]. And met with this end in his new homeland.

So unfortunate.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus_from_Kuwait...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus_from_Kuwait_\(1990%E2%80%9391\))

------
ixtli
What a horrible waste of a wonderful person. We should all do what we can to
make sure society completely rejects the out-moded and dangerous ideology that
caused this.

~~~
0815test
You know, I might easily agree with you, except that _this was not "caused"
solely by ideology_, and to believe this might be not only misleading, but
also quite dangerous. The nihilistic sociopath who has perpetrated this
heinous act would like nothing more than for people to increasingly magnify
his vacuous, meaningless 'ideology', by which he clearly hoped to mislead the
public into following his deranged delusion, that fame and self-aggrandizement
for him might result from mindless murder; from destroying the best that life
has to offer on this Earth. Let's _not_ give him that, let's not fall into
this trap he has cleverly laid out for us. We should simply wholesale-reject
that outrageous, inhumane way of thinking, and not give it even that hint of
dignity that this incredibly misleading term, "ideology", might imply.

~~~
freen
I’d like to introduce you to the idea of stochastic terrorism.

[http://stochasticterrorism.blogspot.com/2011/01/stochastic-t...](http://stochasticterrorism.blogspot.com/2011/01/stochastic-
terrorism-part-1-triggering.html)

~~~
ars
I looked into this once.

 _There is no such thing._

Please stop linking to articles promoting this discredited concept. Just
because someone has an interesting idea _doesn 't make it true_!

~~~
fixermark
It's definitely a thing. It simply goes by less-sexy names of "incitement" or
"agitation."

But by those monikers, it's not only a recognized process, it's a legal issue
with ramifications.

Osama bin Laden never killed anyone. His words were enough to justify his
execution by the military of a foreign nation because he engaged in
incitement.

~~~
erklik
> Osama bin Laden never killed anyone. His words were enough to justify his
> execution by the military of a foreign nation because he engaged in
> incitement.

Although, I understand your point. However, and I would like to say that I do
not know the details of this, OBL was originally charged with the killing of
Silvan Becker, a German intelligence agent and his wife Vera in Libya. That
was against him specifically. Now, I am not sure if he actually pulled the
trigger or was involved in some other way.

~~~
fixermark
Good point; I had forgotten his INTERPOL arrest call. But it's still worth
observing that the US didn't invest in a Seal Team deployment to take down an
INTERPOL fugitive.

------
throwaway5752
If you want to financially show your support, the Tree of Life synagogue in
Pittsburgh has a GoFundMe page [https://www.gofundme.com/tree-of-life-stands-
with-christchur...](https://www.gofundme.com/tree-of-life-stands-with-
christchurch-mosques). It can be verified on their site and other channels.

It's important that victims of white supremacist terrorism stand together, and
that decent people reject it.

~~~
eythian
This one: [https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/christchurch-shooting-
victim...](https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/christchurch-shooting-victims-fund)
is a bit more official.

------
willbw
Good read. It is tragic that he was killed in the name of anti-immigrant
sentiment, when he seems to be a perfect example of an immigrant success
story.

~~~
fabianhjr
> when he seems to be a perfect example of an immigrant success story.

Either they are "unsuccessful" and "leeching of social benefits" or they are
"successful" and "are stealing their jobs". It is a nationalist catch-22 were
there are no successful immigrants, just insecure nationalists that feel
disposable and in the process of "being replaced".

~~~
tomp
A more reasonable fear / complaint would be change / deterioration of local
culture, in case the immigrants refuse to assimilate.

~~~
fabianhjr
That is even more unreasonable, culture is constantly produced and changed,
there isn't a "local culture" to assimilate to and a culture is richer the
more diverse and exploratory it is.

On the other hand if you are using "culture" as a proxy for "they don't behave
like us the colonizers of New Zealand" it is even worse. <
[https://www.wikiwand.com/en/M%C4%81ori_people](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/M%C4%81ori_people)
>

~~~
tomp
I’m using “culture” to mean “respect of democrcy, women and rule of (national,
not religious) law”.

Obviously some cultures are better than others (in my and many other people’s
value system) - do you prefer to live in NZ or Saudi Arabia?

~~~
pavlov
I would rather live in Saudi Arabia today than as a Maori in NZ 50 years ago.

“Ah, but that was then, minorities have it better now.” So the culture (by
your definition) has changed then? Perhaps thanks to immigration and
globalization?

------
tmd83
He seems to be a wonderful man and my prayers are for him and his family. But
I wanted to add something that seems to be better written by the author of the
article already.

> Atta Elayyan was just one of 50. Remember him, but don’t forget to remember
> the other lives that were lost that day, each with their own story, their
> own path, and their own mark on this world.

~~~
Aeolun
I find I just cannot conceptualize 50, just like I cannot conceptualize 10000.
It’s too much.

I can understand the one that was just presented to me.

~~~
Taniwha
Well, from a NZ perspective 50 is, as a percentage population-wise, greater
than the death toll from 911 in the US - we expect our government to take
equivalent level of actions to those the US took against alQuaeda/etc against
white supremacists/alt-right supporters to remove future threats from our
community.

~~~
alexandre_m
How would you suggest doing that exactly?

alQuaeda/ISIS = External threats where you can put the blame on a specific
area of the world, then promote war politics. I'd be curious to hear your
opinion on how effective post 9/11 politics were in that manner. It's not like
evil was eradicated, plus the collateral damage.

Is there a factory that make white supremacists where we should drop bombs?

Beware of the slippery road to define that "factory", also.

~~~
Taniwha
I think that's kind of the point of my rather tongue in cheek follow up below

We will have to keep an eye on this very dangerous part of our population in
the future, we'll start by denying them access to the worst sorts of weapons
so they can't be so dangerous in the future.

~~~
alexandre_m
When you say "denying them access to the worst sorts of weapons", are you
proposing that certain group can keep their rights of access while others
cannot? How can you really apply that in an objective manner?

Or perhaps you mean in a broader sense remove them access to all kind of
platforms to not spread hateful messages?

Those are dangerous discriminatory power to give, as today it might target
your opponents and tomorrow yourself.

The reason I bring this up is not because I care about white supremacists per
se, but because it's a tool to start applying "hate speaches" politics, where
hate is itself very subjective and too often interpreted as "things I don't
like to hear".

~~~
lostlogin
We are changing our gun laws here in NZ and likely doing it this week,
although what that change looks like isn’t clear to me.
[https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/385081/christchurch...](https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/385081/christchurch-
terror-attacks-firearms-law-changes-today-or-tomorrow)

------
tamersalama
I came across the donation page setup for his family "Atta Elayyan's Young
Family" [1]

[1] [https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/help-atta-elayyans-
family](https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/help-atta-elayyans-family)

------
mattparlane
Great read, thanks for posting.

To me, one thing that's not being discussed much is that Europeans only
settled in New Zealand around 200 years ago, pretty short in the history of
humanity. You could ask the Maori people how they feel about Europeans showing
up and taking their land and destroying their culture, yet they are not
gunning us down in cold blood.

~~~
vowelless
I’m torn. On one hand I think we should think about the “motives” of these
monsters and try to explain why they are wrong m, like you just did.

On the other side, I don’t want to legitimize even a semblance of rationality
exhibited by this guy. Even if Europeans had been in NZ for a thousand years,
this is not the right response.

~~~
0815test
As I've written already ITT, the last thing I would want is for the attacker
to receive even a shred of legitimacy - but I nonetheless think parent
commenter raises a very good point! Because see, that individual would sure
_like_ us to think that Europeans are in some way the "rightful" inhabitants
of New Zealand, the place where he carried out his hateful attack. Even a
cursory knowledge of history would quickly evince to us just how nonsensical
this notion is - yet he happily makes that argument anyway! And we are to
believe that this attack was _not_ in fact driven by the most heinous sort of
murderous and destructive intent, with "politics" and "ideology" (even of the
most radical sort one could possibly imagine) being merely the flimsiest of
post-hoc rationalizations?

------
mirimir
That is just so sad :(

I've never quite understood why Islamophobia is so prevalent in Australia.
Even more than in the US, it seems.

So I found this.[0] It seems a great summary.

0) Briskman (2015) The Creeping Blight of Islamophobia in Australia. IJCJ&SD
4(3): 112‐121.
[https://www.crimejusticejournal.com/article/download/772/527](https://www.crimejusticejournal.com/article/download/772/527)

------
trashbin1234
Everyone so deeply moved. And yet American bombs continue to fall. Hour after
hour. Every single day. And no one gives a shit.

~~~
jtmb
There are those who give a lot of a shit, and who are deeply disturbed and
troubled, knowing families and innocents and children being maimed and killed
are on our collective hands, and who do not know how the US can and should
escalate, finish or withdraw from these conflicts without empowering butchers
and terrorists to replace them, as well as killing or leaving even more
friends and allies to die.

~~~
jessaustin
You do realize, that this is 100% bullshit? We have destroyed these societies
by destroying them; we'll hardly do further damage by leaving them alone. Just
compare Libya, a smoking ruin where we did all we felt it was necessary to do,
with Syria, a now-largely-peaceful functioning nation with the good sense to
protect itself from our predations. They have slave markets in Libya now. No
regular person survives without regular protection payments to gangsters.
Reporters don't dare venture there, they keep track of the carnage by counting
the people washing up on Europe's southern shores. The best thing we can do to
any nation is the best thing we could have done, always. Leave them alone. _If
they request_ , send some humanitarian supplies. Recently however we have
screwed up even that simple task, by trying to use humanitarian efforts as a
screen for undermining Venezuela's elected government. (Don't believe me? Just
ask the Red Cross.)

------
eyphka
A really touching piece about an awesome person. You’ll be missed.

------
inawarminister
Innalillahi wa innaillaihi roji'un. May God forgives all his sins, and reward
him in the Hereafter for his virtues. I pray that his martyrdom and
accomplishments have and will lead to a better world here in mortal life.

Also, I used to use MetroTube intensely when I have a Lumia phone back in 2013
or so. Thank you, Mr. Elayyan!

------
kuon
For some reason, this affects me a lot more than I want to admit.

~~~
twistedlogicx
I understand. I cried like four times writing the article. I almost gave up
several times (especially near the start), because the more I read about him,
the more I realized I was utterly unqualified to do him justice with my words.
The only thing that kept me going was how much I wanted to tell people his
story.

The amount of comments I've received since, with people telling me how much of
an impact his story had on them, it's been more touching, more humbling and
more rewarding than anything I ever could have expected.

~~~
exodust
Thanks for sharing his story.

I really liked how he was a passionate skillful gamer and developer and family
guy and sporting guy. Yes, it's possible to fit all those in! I can only hope
to cover half the bases he did.

------
mandeepj
Satya Nadella also mentioned him in his condolences

[https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A6...](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A6512862980844195840/)

------
guelo
ISIS was growing and recruiting online for a while but then they were pretty
effectively "deplatformed" internet-wide.

The growing white supremacist threat is not being treated anywhere near as
seriously with a lot of free speech concerns that only seem to apply to white
identity terrorism.

~~~
781
ISIS also deplatformed itself with it's ultra-violent and gory videos.

The white supremacists got this right, but starting with mellower content,
memes, and not throwing one in directly in the deep end. Look at this guy, he
avoided swastikas because he knows they are a huge turn-off to non-radicalized
people.

~~~
Aeolun
They’re also fairly pointless as a symbol if you’re trying to say anything but
‘look how edgy I am!’

------
freen
What a horrible loss to humanity.

So many lives, so much potential.

------
tomlock
There's no greater indictment of white supremacy than that a proponent who
achieved basically nothing with their life, killed someone who was much much
better than them.

~~~
epicureanideal
You mean other than it being absolutely without any rational foundation or
practical merit, and possibly being used as a justification for genocide?

------
sonnyblarney
Tragic, even more so when there are names to the otherwise unknown faces.

------
eruci
Very sad. Indeed for all of those whose life ended in such circumstances.

If we could only figure out a way to get extremists to only focus on killing
other extremists, we'd all be much better off.

------
kr4
This world is creation of our collective consciousness. We need a collective
conscious effort to bring sanity to the sad state of the world today. Please
join us in global meditation for peace on every Saturday
[http://blacklotusapp.org/](http://blacklotusapp.org/)

~~~
straightrow
ATTA ELAYYAN' It is so good to read some one with common SENSE, IN MY FINAL
YEARS ON THIS PLANET. iN MY 95 year. Having raised in a RC orphanage and thru
all the RC's educations and then Married in a RC building (church) and we
raised 2 girls , one married a RC wonderfull man and the younger girl married
a Jewish wonderfull guy. However, they all gave up their parents cults and are
"free at last", and HAPPY WITH LIFE.

