

Berlin VC invests in Italian startup. Is this the start of something? - Facens
http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/12/30/shock-horror-berlin-vc-invests-in-italian-startup-is-this-the-start-of-something/

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zerostar07
... and we find out about it thanks to the british correspondent of a
californian blog.

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tucosan
<http://www.gruenderszene.de/news/point-nine-capital-cibando> also
<http://www.deutsche-startups.de>

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zerostar07
See that's a problem, writing in English guarantees a wider audience.

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freyfogle
naja, Quantität ist nicht gleich Qualität

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zerostar07
I don't speak german

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JonnieCache
Surely you can read that though. Look again.

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zerostar07
i know, but i was making a point

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dariobarila
[http://www.magno.me/startup-e-italia-qualcosa-si-inizia-a-
mu...](http://www.magno.me/startup-e-italia-qualcosa-si-inizia-a-muovere) Here
you can find a quite critical point of view from one of the best italian
entrepreneurs and business angel. Is written in italian for the italians who
always criticize the italian venture capitalists, accusing them that they miss
some good startups. But venture capitalists in this country are moving and
growing, although there are still many gaps about seed capital. Also, the new
Italian government has introduced measures to promote venture capital. By the
way, You're hacker enough to translate this post!

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oscardelben
If you're in Italy and want to fund your startup try contacting h-farm
<http://www.h-farmventures.com/>

Disclaimer: I've worked with one of their startup but I know the place is
great and they're more than willing to invest.

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guk
Thanks all! I really hope the Italian scene grows a lot!!

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danmaz74
Besides the deserved congratulations, there's a question I'd like to ask you.
I noticed that the Cibando website is Copyright "Cibando Ltd.", but in the TOS
the service is from "Mobatar S.r.l."

Does this mean that you have both a UK ltd company and an Italian S.r.L.? If
that's so, why? Have you already explored what it means from a fiscal point of
view having both?

I ask because right now I'm very undecided if I should incorporate in the UK
with a ltd company for the paid service I'll launch very soon on
pro.hashtagify.me - not to dodge Italian taxes (I live in Rome too), but
because a S.r.L. costs too much and sounds much worse for an international
audience - and I only found very confusing information on the Internet, so it
would be very interesting to learn about your experience :)

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Facens
I had to face the decision too, for Iubenda, and ended up with an Srl. I went
for the most hassle-free choice, since incorporating abroad can be time
consuming and hide additional costs (loss of focus included). About the Srl, I
wrote this article a while ago which can clarify some of the expenses:
<http://thinkamination.com/migliorare-srl-italiana/> [ITA]

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danmaz74
Where did you get your data about incorporating abroad? From my information,
the incorporation itself, if done in the UK, couldn't be less hassle-free and
cheap: You get it in one day, and for less than 100€. The whole fiscal
management should be doable for ca. 70€/month with a service like
www.crunch.co.uk

What worries me is the Italian side of the thing: I'd like to pay what I have
to pay in taxes (to the State, not to the notary) but it isn't very clear how
you do that; as for pension contributions I have a day job that and am already
covered there.

Simply put, right now I don't want to look for external money (THAT would be a
loss of focus ;) and couldn't pay the costs of a SrL. I want to be sure if the
business model works before committing thousands of euros to this startup.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the suggestions!

PS: do you know about <http://srlfacile.org/> ? I like what they ask and I'm
trying to help, but exactly today I was thinking about writing a more
direct/polemic message referencing the "tasse occulte" our premier talked
about recently. I'm sure that making much (MUCH) easier and less expensive to
incorporate would be one of the few feasible measures that could bring about
real economic growth. I would have incorporated at least a year ago with my
other initiatives, hadn't it been for this...

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Facens
Also consider that we are a tech/legal startup, and the ability to cover in
house some of the legal trickiness was a huge pro on the Srl side. Here some
other thoughts I forgot to link on the previous post:
<http://thinkamination.com/dove-incorporare/> [ITA] Here's a topic on Quora
too: [http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-of-being-
incorpor...](http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-of-being-incorporated-
in-the-USA-for-an-Italian-foreign-startup)

Also consider that incorporating outside means you have to demonstrate that
it's not for a taxation advantage, which would not be legal.

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danmaz74
Well, of course having the legal counselling in house makes a difference, and
the US is actually a more complicated alternative the the UK for us in the EU.
So in your case I'm pretty sure that your choice was the best.

For me, your last point doesn't look very worrying, because from what I read
if the company operations are in Italy then you are required to pay taxes
here, but according to EU law you can rightfully incorporate in any EU
country; so, if I do pay the taxes in Italy, there is nothing unlawful.
Moreover, in my case, the website is (and will be) in English only and my
market is 99% abroad.

More worrying is having to understand HOW I should pay my company's taxes
here, and how to explain to the UK that I should't pay them there too... the
worst scenario I can think of would be having to pay the corporate taxes twice
until everything is clear, but if that becomes a problem it means that I
already got traction, and at that point I could do everything I need to fix
the situation.

What I really don't want is to spend a lot of money just to validate my
product!

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itmag
Interesting that things are actually happening outside of SV.

Speaking of that, is there a startup scene in Scandinavia? Anyone know?

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Ironballs
Yes! There's even a whole site devoted to the startup scene in Nordic (and
Baltic) countries: <http://www.arcticstartup.com/>

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itmag
Cool! (heh)

I want to meet local entrepreneurs who are in tune with the HN ethos, but it's
really hard sometimes in Jante country :)

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dariobarila
HN, keep an eye on italian startup scene, a lot of potential waiting to be
discovered...

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klaut
agreed. I really wish the startup scene blossoms in Italy in the near future
as there is great potential there - One of my favourite italian startups is
<http://stereomood.com/>

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brador
How would you monetize that site?

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vidarh
Buy buttons on every track. Lots of music I've never heard about that I might
like to download to my music player.

EDIT: There _are_ buy buttons on every track, but frankly they're almost too
inobtrusive - I didn't notice them at first.

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advanced
Finally !

