
I Dropped Out of Grad School Today - sam
http://octopart.com/html/blog.html
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smock
Its interesting to me that everyone here seems to have advice to offer, some
of it very personally critical, to a man who is merely outlining his own train
of thought, not telling anyone to follow his path. I am nearing the end of my
fourth year in physics grad school and have never been closer to quitting. My
own experience has been very isolating-I work long hours in the basement of a
lab, limiting of my personal growth-I've been in a kind of 'stasis' where I'm
in this college environment but very clearly do not fit the mold of a college
student, and professionally frustrating - not only do I not have the kind of
control over my project which people claim as the holy grail of a Ph.D., there
is no clear end in sight to what I am doing. The only thing keeping me here is
momentum and fear. Here is a man who just took his life off the usual path and
spat in the face of fear. That deserves respect.

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razvanr
I totally agree with not taking decisions lightly, but with a clear head. I've
put all my studies on hold this year(currently 19) because it makes so much
more sense to experiment as best I can at this stage. I've since been employed
as a copywriter(great job), then as a programmer(hated it because things were
moving too slow in that company) and I ultimately started a low-profile firm
and pitched alternative outdoor marketing projects to big distribution firms
here in Bucharest. What I'm trying to say is that in 9 months I've learned
more than in my entire formal studies up until now. And it's not only about
the knowledge but also about life experience and how to deal with things. It
always demands great respect to take your own life into your hands and take
decisions. It's also great to know that you can manage things on your own and
be financially independent at this age.

I don't take formal studies lightly in any way, but I consider that it's great
added value if I continue them in a few years.

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staunch
This has got to make PG nervous. How many people's life is he affecting? :-)
He's definitely had an impact on my priorities in a very big and positive way.
I hope everyone who makes changes based on his inspiration and motivation does
it with a clear head and can take responsiblity for the decision and outcome.

~~~
rms
Paul Graham has backpedaled from one of the initial goals of Y Combinator,
funding companies with no lower-bound for the age of founders. With the
publication of this essay, http://www.paulgraham.com/mit.html, he has
backpedaled from that stance because of his personal moral culpability for
encouraging people to become drop-outs. So if you are seeking Y Combinator
funding and are a current undergraduate, tell Paul Graham that you are
dropping out to start the company regardless of whether or not he funds you.

~~~
pg
We never proposed there was no lower bound; the goal was more to discover
where it was. And we now have, I think. Though in fact the main thing we
discovered was how fuzzy it is.

There really are people who can start a startup when they're 19. Sam Altman,
the founder of Loopt, was 19. But for most people the lower bound is about 22.
One reason is that most people need to experience what a job is like to be
sufficiently motivated to avoid it. Another is that few people are forceful
enough at 19.

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jmzachary
Have you discovered an upper bound? The commonly held belief is that people
over X (where 30 < X 35?) can't start startups because they have kids and a
mortgage, or they just aren't in-tune with what's hip. Curiously, that
excludes people who have "been there and seen that", the best current example
being AJAX. Also, those who have taken a few more trips around the Sun also
may recognize niches that 19-25 years would never see. My impression is that
Y-Combinator is an attractor for the younger entrepreneur.

Full disclosure: I'm in the range above, planning to start a company, and not
trolling for Y-Combinator dollars.

~~~
pg
Harder to say about the upper bound. The factors you mention may play a role,
especially kids. I also think need for money is a factor. Most people who
could make money have by 40, and once you have enough, you're less willing to
endure the pain of starting a startup.

The average age of YC founders is about 25.

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jmzachary
Couldn't you have taken a sabbatical? I mean, did you just totally walk away
from it? I took a sabbatical for a year from a PhD in CS to pursue some
medical science ideas, then went back when they didn't go far enough to make a
living on. Not flaming, just curious.

~~~
psbt
if you take a sabbatical then you haven't really risked anything. you have to
go all the way. what do you guys think about James from Hot or Not giving up
his millions. He probably went out to a nice dinner to celebrate.

~~~
nostrademons
I got the impression from James's post that he wasn't actually "giving up" his
millions, he was locking up all future profits in the business and reinvesting
them. He converted HotOrNot from an S-corporation to a C-corporation. You can
certainly reinvest profits from an S-corporation into the business or pay out
profits from a C-corporation as dividends, but the incentives go different
ways. S-corp earnings are taxed as ordinary income (none of the double-
taxation of corporate profits) and S-corps can't give out different classes of
shares, so there's an incentive to distribute the profits out to the
shareholders. C-corp earnings are taxed once at the corporate level and then
once as dividend earnings, yet they can have multiple classes of shareholders.
The incentive is to build up the business and eventually seek an IPO,
acquisition, or other liquidity event. It almost looks like James is
positioning HotOrNot to get big and get bought.

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jullrich1
At the end of the day this is a public explanation of a private decision. I'm
guessing that the amount of thought that went into this decision is massive
and began on some level long before PG made a comment. Without personally
knowing Andres, I think it's safe to say as a physics expert he possesses the
analytical skills required to go into this with a clear head. I for one give
him credit for acting on his instincts rather than playing it safe. All the
posts below are proving that point. How many people would be claiming that he
made a mistake if he continued to pursue Physics and Octopart failed? No one
because who can criticize the pursuit of a doctorate? Chances are his
dedication to Octopart will lead him in yet another direction, one that most
likely would not have reared itself in the basement of the Physics lab.

As for the women...well that is a whole other conversation. Andres, I know
lots of women now that I'm married, let me know your type.

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ced
I often wonder if there are good opportunities for (non-web) startups in
physics/science. The state of programming in there is abysmal, in my
experience. There must be thousands of Fortran implementations of finite
element codes out there, each with dozens of non-trivial bugs. It's absurd
that physicists do so much low-level programming and optimization on their
own.

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erdos2
David Sternberg writes in his book, "How to Complete and Survive a Doctoral
Dissertation," that the right reason to pursue a doctorate is a deep interest
in your discipline, along with the intention to work professionally in it upon
completion. I recommend this book to anyone having first or second thoughts
about pursuing a Ph.D.

Social isolation helps if your intention is to get work done. In the words of
the poet:

"Startups must be pursued for their own sake

and never to impress potential mates."

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clamgroin
you're bananas if you think a startup is going to help you meet girls or
improve your social life. especially an electronics website startup... yikes.

~~~
psbt
as long as the startup makes money the girls wont care what it's selling.

~~~
clamgroin
if only that were really true. y'all never been to a silicon valley singles
thing, huh? all the ladies are lining up to bang the bartender.

~~~
awt
There are plenty of girls if you're willing to make the drive to Berkelely

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iamelgringo
Hang in there. I've been there. It gets better.

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tyohn
I hate to play devils advocate but is dropping out of school a reflection of
what is to come when the start up work gets tedious? Please dont get me wrong
I believe you should follow your passion and if that takes dropping out of
school or climbing Mt. Everest follow Nike and just do it! Maybe dropping out
of school shows the investor that you are serious but are you dropping out
because you are serious or because youre bored and this offers you a way out?
Am I way off on this line of thought? By the way if I was facing the same
decision I would drop out too.

~~~
jmtame
I think it shows that Andres doesn't have the interest or time in his school
work. I'm in a similar situation, considering dropping out as an
undergraduate, and I just don't have the time to work on my startup and school
at the same time and expect any progress in the next 12 months.

Plus you have to consider what a degree is going to get you. In most cases, at
least for undergraduates, a degree is going to put you in a full-time, entry-
level job. Not everyone wants that, and not everyone is meant to be in
college.

You can argue this two ways. Your view is "you need to finish what you
started, otherwise people know you're a quitter." I'm the type who says "I
tried it, didn't like it, and now I'm chasing my dreams." There's no right or
wrong here, it's all perception.

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omarish
I really respect your decision. Good luck and I hope to hear great things.

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ninwa
It's brave to drop everything you've been working so hard for in sights of
opportunity, but is it really in the electronic part search market? Sorry, I
don't mean to sound negative, but a PhD in physics would have opened such a
large expanse of possibilities. You're going to throw it away for a chance at
more women and on the whim of one man (PG's) advice. Best of luck.

~~~
nostrademons
I did the first 7 semesters of my undergrad in physics, and still have a lot
of friends doing Ph.Ds in physics. A bachelors in physics opens up a large
expanse of possibilities - finance, management consulting, economics
consulting, computer programming, high school math teacher, and of course
physics grad school. A Ph.D in physics qualifies you for exactly one job:
physics professor. There are far more opportunities for a physics drop-out
than a physics Ph.D, particularly for someone who doesn't absolutely,
positively love the subject.

~~~
mexicali
Dude, you're not right at all. There are a lot more opportunities for a PhD
although there are many for a BA too. You don't have to be a physics professor
if you get a PhD.

~~~
psbt
You could be a post-doc for 12 years until some professorship opens up in the
Golan Heights. If you don't want to stay in Physics the only thing a Ph.D. is
useful for is a "change career free card". You're allowed to change your
career to anything but only once.

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timg
We admire your ambition. You'll do well.

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amichail
I suspect that startups are for more creative people. So you need to decide
whether to pursue an analytical phd or a more creative startup. BTW, you might
find this discussion interesting: http://weblog.fortnow.com/2006/07/science-
and-art-of-computation.html

~~~
ashu
Creativity rules everywhere. A good Ph.D. from a good school requires tons of
creativity.

~~~
smagister
I wouldn't say "requires". There is a common saying in physics grad schools:
Put monkey in lab. Wait 10 years. Monkey gets PhD.

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bootload
there are no right or wrong choices. I find this an interesting post as I just
commented on the 'involved' vs 'committed' post ~ http://tinyurl.com/2q9ut8
where a co-founder left to pursue a PhD from a startup. The key test is are
they *both committed*? I also noted the potential motivators, '... no money,
no job, no health insurance, and no idea if we are actually going to succeed
...', '... started counting the number of girls I would interact with on a
daily basis ...'. While their situation may/may not improve on all these
points the fact they are committed is a step in the right direction. Now if
only I could search for AMD64 ~ http://octopart.com/search?q=AMD64

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sly
Irrelevant to the rest of the discussion, but just a suggestion: get the
domain name octapart.com, too. Lots of people spell octopus wrong. Good luck!
Sera

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kallena
I guess technically I dropped out as an undergrad. Although, I like to tell
people I finished early. Good on you for pursuing your passion!

