
Leaving Apple - ingve
http://belkadan.com/blog/2019/11/Leaving-Apple/
======
coldcode
Other than working for my own two startups a long time ago, my current job is
4 years. I think one should go elsewhere on a regular basis just to see
something different. No matter how fun the work might be, it can still become
too routine or similar.

~~~
arcticbull
It's a weird thing to say but the longer you've been at a company the more
you're "part of the furniture" and your shortcomings stop mattering as much to
your co-workers because you're, well, part of the furniture. If you want to
grow and push yourself you're going to need some new coworkers. It may be
uncomfortable but it's worth it in the long run. That's not to say it's a
guaranteed win. As all things, it's a risk.

~~~
CoolGuySteve
The compilers group might be better, but when I was working in the IMG
division at Apple 10 years ago, the yearly raises were barely enough to keep
up with inflation.

People who had been there 10 years were only making a little more than I did
fresh out of school. I also think a lot of people at Apple are part of the
devoted, they used Macs their whole life and were living the dream by working
at Apple, and HR took advantage of them.

Of course HR said "we pay the industry standard" but later on Apple was
convicted of industry wide wage fixing.

So if anything, you should leave Apple just for the pay raise. When I moved to
NYC, having Apple on my resume opened a lot of doors and the finance industry
more than doubled my pay.

~~~
mandeepj
> People who had been there 10 years were only making a little more than I did
> fresh out of school.

Please, please do not spread news like this. It can't be true at all. Do you
think they had zero vested stock? I know a software engineer at Apple - he has
made about 1 million dollars just from stocks - some were awarded and some
were bought from his savings

~~~
ctime
What he is saying is true for many, many people at Apple that worked from the
mid 2000's onward.

If you read his post, said he was there 10 years ago in 2009. If you recall,
this was during peak recession and at that time Apple was seemingly driven by
a culture of ruthlessness that was probably a result of events earlier in the
decade (before Steve Jobs came back, when the company was nearly insolvent).
Apple was _cheap_ (and still is, in probably terribly shortsighted ways) and
would take advantage of anyone and anything they could to save money.
Depending on your department, this could mean low wages, no stock, no
investment in tooling and equipment, whatever they could get away with.

I started working there in 2012 and worked with a good number of folks that
had to put up with absolute hell before iPhone launch (which totally changed
the company, for the better). I was really there to do was clean up tech debt
bought on by poor planning and shoestring budgets. It seemed like most of the
"old timers" were barely making livable silicon valley money and many had
tails of Apple managers doing totally shady things like making promises of
equity, only to have it denied later (and nothing was on paper). They still
stuck around for god knows what reason. I stayed around until my initial
equity grant ran out and moved on to greener pastures.

~~~
arcticbull
> If you read his post, said he was there 10 years ago in 2009. If you recall,
> this was during peak recession and at that time Apple was seemingly driven
> by a culture of ruthlessness that was probably a result of events earlier in
> the decade (before Steve Jobs came back, when the company was nearly
> insolvent).

I think we should be fair and point out that unlike basically every other
major tech company in the Bay Area, Apple didn't lay any one off in the
2008-2009 recession.

They were conservative, yes, and flush with cash they used to make a number of
big strategy acquisitions in the period IIRC.

~~~
chirau
If you don't mind me asking... Apple was flush with cash from where and what
in 08/09? Ipods?

~~~
lonelappde
iPods and OS Macs

------
pacaro
This is somewhat random, and I have no idea what OPs motivations are for the
timing of this, but as a general rule, in the US at least, you should always
try and arrange for your last day to be the first of the month. That way you
get a months healthcare on your existing insurance before having to start
COBRA payments or have some alternate arrangement.

In my experience, this isn't well known

~~~
Tempest1981
And if you have much saved up vacation, and plan to have a gap between jobs
(or a lower-paying job), wait until Jan 1. Then the lump vacation payout is
taxed less.

------
yalogin
Looks like I am the only one who doesn’t know this individual. Can someone
fill me in?

~~~
jayyhu
The author was/is a core contributor to the Swift language, (formerly) working
for Apple.

------
akmarinov
Cool, enjoy some well deserved time off!

------
camdenlock
“I’d like to branch out more and try learning something new. (I’ll explicitly
acknowledge that my freedom to do so is a form of privilege.)”

Why must you explicitly acknowledge that? Religion is usually a private matter
which people largely keep to themselves.

It’s astounding how widespread this one has become, that a person can’t feel
comfortable saying “I’d like to try new things” without having to decorate it
with a statement of religious commitment.

~~~
ysleepy
I read that as an acknowledgement of the privilege to be able to easily find
another job since he has sought after skills. Many people could not dream
about quitting their job to "branch out".

But maybe I overlooked something.

~~~
jackcodes
I don’t think you did overlook anything, as that’s how I understand it. But I
also get the point of the parent. I don’t understand why it has become so
common to half-apologise or disclaimer the things that may be easier for you
than others. I don’t see these same disclaimers when people talk about eating
at a nice restaurant, taking a flight, being warm in bed, drinking clean
drinking water, or not starving.

For me, it’s redundant. Some people have more access to greater abilities than
everyone else, and some people will be able pay their way to a more
comfortable life than others, but it doesn’t mean we should have to provide
recognition of that on behalf of everyone that can’t.

~~~
drusepth
It is redundant, but for some vocal subset of the online population it doesn't
go without saying. These kinds of decorations preempt comments dismissing a
commenter's opinion as being privileged; for whatever reason, acknowledging
one's privilege seems to avoid those kinds of comments.

It's redundant and unnecessary (and redundant), but costs very little and
avoids (some) pointless internet arguments. That's why I think these
disclaimers are a trend right now.

~~~
jackcodes
My feeling is that it costs a lot, in the long run.

------
100-xyz
At Facebook now. In general, people who have been here the longest are the
dullest. The good, creative ones leave by approx 2 years.

~~~
curyous
If you leave within 2 years you never have to experience the long term effects
of your decisions so there are a lot of valuable things you never learn.

~~~
ip26
Maybe that's how you stay 'creative', because you never have to face the
consequences of your creativity :)

------
helpPeople
I want to ask, when you work/interview for a company like Apple, do you face
ethical dilemmas due to their outward practices?

~~~
nomel
Could you give some examples of the outward practices? As it is, your comment
require the reader to have the same mindset as you, which will not give the
variety of perspectives you’re probably looking for.

~~~
robbyt
Building products that are designed to be disposable, rather than repairable,
then pretending that recycling is a reasonable solution.

~~~
function_seven
Out of all the computing devices I've ever owned, the Apple devices are by far
the longest-lived (and longest-supported) ones. I still use my 2007 MacBook,
my 2012 MBP, and my iPhone 6S. The 2nd gen iPad still does its job fine.

These things are not disposable. Each item in the list above has had battery
replacements. The 2007 MBP, I bought a 3rd party pack. The 2012 MBP was
replaced free-of-charge at an Apple store. The 6S got a new battery for $29.

When I do decide to get a newer phone, I'll hand in my old one at that time.
I'm sure they don't just chuck it into the wastebasket.

~~~
coolspot
While I agree on longevity of iOS devices, I also have 2007 MacBooks (both Pro
and not). They can't get latest OSX, without latest OSX you can't get iTunes
that supports iPhone X.

Bootcamped Windows 7 on the same machine gets latest iTunes capable of
interacting with iPhone X.

~~~
cstejerean
iTunes? What do you still use iTunes for? I don’t think I’ve used iTunes with
my iPhone for probably 5 years.

~~~
0x0
Taking local iOS backups, for one.

