

16 Arrested as F.B.I. Hits the Hacking Group Anonymous - liuwei6
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/20/technology/16-arrested-as-fbi-hits-the-hacking-group-anonymous.html

======
tlrobinson
_In the San Jose case, all 14 suspects are accused of using a free program
called Low Orbit Ion Cannon_

...

 _When you have a decentralized group,” Ms. Granick said, “the question is,
Are there big fish, and are any of these people big fish?”_

No.

They're basically going to ruin a few kids' lives in order to deter other kids
from "hacking" with things like LOIC.

~~~
ars
> They're basically going to ruin a few kids' lives in order to deter other
> kids from "hacking" with things like LOIC.

They'll get probation is it's their first offense. Judges do have brains you
know, and don't toss people in jail (or fine them) just because the
prosecution wants them to.

But I doubt it'll go to trial. The prosecution will get lots of media out it
(which is all they really want). Then they'll offer a plea bargain deal with
probation, and that'll be all.

~~~
ordinary
But then it would be on their record, wouldn't it?

~~~
ars
Yah. You can sometimes get those purged if you complete the probation without
issues. It depends on the judge I guess.

------
sudonim
Hmmm... it seems like the FBI decided to go after some low hanging fruit.
People using Low Orbit Ion Cannon are probably not the brains of the
operations. And arresting a bunch of people who have no influence probably
gives validation to the message of anonymous and lulzsec.

~~~
jfricker
Criminals is criminals.

~~~
ebaysucks
Slave mentality is slave mentality.

------
jontas
I wonder if this Reddit thread:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/iu93n/fbi_raided_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/iu93n/fbi_raided_my_house_with_a_search_warrant_today/)

Is the unnamed suspect (I would guess due to being a minor).

~~~
Ronkdar
I find it hard to believe they would enter a house with 20 armed agents to
arrest someone who did not commit an act of violence.

~~~
sneak
America is a terribly strange and terrifying place to those that didn't grow
up there.

------
trotsky
_The suspects, in 10 separate states, are accused of conspiring to
“intentionally damage protected computers.”_

This seems to relate to refer to Title 18, Part I, Chapter 47, § 1030, Part a)
5) A):

 _knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or
command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without
authorization, to a protected computer;_

<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html>

There was quite a bit of debate during the December DOS's about what you could
even charge folks with. This seems to be their answer. You can indict for
almost anything, though, as grand juries are notoriously easy especially in
technical cases.

I find it hard to believe a judge would actually buy slowing a computer down
equals damage. If that was the case people who maliciously search too often.
Smells like plea bargain bait at best to me, what US Attorney would want to
try that?

~~~
molecule
> ...a judge would actually buy slowing a computer down equals damage...

 _cough_ flash ads _cough_

~~~
redthrowaway
_Vista_

------
nsomaru
_And mounting an attack is..., with the right skills, relatively simple._

Do people think any more? Yeah, driving a formula one car is, with the right
skills, relatively simple.

Anything is simple from the perspective of the person who has invested time to
learn how to do it.

~~~
redthrowaway
Right, but LOIC actually _is_ ridiculously simple. You either enter the url of
the server that's doing the fire control, or just enter the url of your target
and click "fire lazorz". It's built to be used by masses of /b/tards, so
simplicity is a key design choice.

------
cft
PayPal has very good personal contacts at FBI due to FBI's interest in payment
fraud. So attacking PayPal from the US will more likely lead to FBI action
than attacking any other similarly sized consumer website.

------
dagrz
I think this article summaries the whole big fish, small fish, decentralized
discussion: <http://risky.biz/anonymous>

------
Ronkdar
Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the New York Times just said
"lulz" (as in LulzSec) with a straight face?

------
marcamillion
Hate to say it...but they brought this on themselves.

------
hallowtech
Seven proxies couldn't hold them back.

------
maeon3
The fact that hackers are burned at the stake and made an example of, in
America for crimes similar to 'reckless blocking of a store Entrance' is what
will make our networks weak and feeble against the (100 to 1) army of
professional hackers in India and China.

But I suppose if we get hacked by other nations we'll just get our hackers
together and with their mad elite skills, will stop them. right? right guys?
Oh yeah, PS, America has a massive shortage of security experts, if you are
interested in hacking, call the FBI, they need you.

------
Devilboy
Apparently now a 16 year old was arrested in London. He is supposedly a
prominent member of Lulzsec:
[http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/19/leading-member-
lul...](http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/19/leading-member-lulzsec-
hacker-squad-arrested-in-london/)

Apologies for the source, every other source just points to this one at the
moment.

~~~
danssig
Then how do we know it's even true?

~~~
Devilboy
You wait until better sources are available. Like this one

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8649621/Teen-
accu...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8649621/Teen-accused-of-
Anonymous-and-LulzSec-attacks.html)

------
bbsabelli
Recruitment?

~~~
coderdude
What do they need with child script kiddies who completely lack common sense?

~~~
shareme
get them to hack China?

------
jfricker
Anonymous civil disobedience just gives the powers-that-be the excuse to
arrest anyone they choose.

~~~
Nrsolis
Civil disobedience usually requires that you perform your action openly and
notoriously. Running a program in your home and using an alias hardly
qualifies.

Seriously, you're defending DDoS attacks?

~~~
jfricker
Defending? No. Stating an observation that tyrannical institutions can use
Anonymous as a pretense to arrest anyone with a computer. At least in the USA
there is a shred of evidentiary requirement, but much of the world is not so
lucky.

I suppose it's arguable that Anonymous is acting out of a sense of "Civil
Disobedience". Perhaps it's more along the lines of "vandalism".
Philosophically speaking, that is.

~~~
meatsock
every act of civil disobedience can be construed as a more petty crime, if you
squint. i believe gandi was guilty of loitering but that's not the salient
part of his action, philosophically speaking.

~~~
jfricker
Actually civil disobedience is the act of committing a crime for moral,
ethical, or conflicting legal reason. And it is salient. The motivation is in
part "to commit this crime I seek to prevent or change a worse crime". To say
that Anonymous is acting out of a sense of civil disobedience is to say that
they are motivated by a cause.

Personally, I have no idea what motivates Anonymous or if they feel morally
obligated to act. It's just as likely that they believe they can commit a
crime without penalty. The actions of the FBI are, in part, to deter future
individuals from participating in Anonymous coordinated attacks by reminding
people that they are not _that_ anonymous and there are consequences to one's
actions.

Gandhi, King and other activists all were willing to suffer the consequences
of their actions. They were motivated by a principle higher than blind
obedience after all.

------
Pointsly
I'm interested to see if the Government throws them away in some max security
prison in Colorado or asks them to work along their sides.

