

HTC Sues Apple for Patent Infringement - mikeknoop
http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=129616&lang=1033

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marketer
I'm glad HTC is doing this. Since the iPhone came out, Apple has developed
this smug godlike aura and it's time that someone stood up against them.

~~~
roc
You realize it's just the patent system doing what it normally does, right?

A sues B, generally to achieve some tangentially-related goal. Then B counter-
sues A, to try to shore up their position in the inevitable settlement and
cross-licensing deal. All of this, regardless of the relative merits or
correct-ness of either side.

About the only time these things diverge from the normal path, is when one
side is suing to essentially put another out of business. And that's hardly
the case here.

From our position it's as irrational to say HTC is "standing up" to Apple
bullying as to say Apple is standing up to Google/HTC "ripping off" their
technology.

~~~
TheBurningOr
> About the only time these things diverge from the normal path, is when one
> side is suing to essentially put another out of business. And that's hardly
> the case here.

I'm not so sure about this. By going after the biggest Android manufacturer,
youngest and smallest major smartphone manufacturer and a foreign company, It
sort of seems that Apple does want to put HTC out of business, at least in
this field.

~~~
cjlesh
Is HTC the biggest Android manufacturer? In the US I think Motorola has sold
more phones with Android than anyone else.

I'm guessing Apple didn't sue Motorola because Motorola probably has a patent
portfolio in the mobile phone space that is quite scary.

~~~
ericz
Definitely Motorola has a more formidable patent portfolio but HTC has been
selling Android phones way before Motorola.

HTC is behind the G1, MyTouch, Sprint Hero, Droid Eris, Nexus One. Moto has
Droid and Cliq, and now backflip but only Droid has much traction.

Regardless symbolically HTC is also more symbolically representative of
Android, they both produced the first Android phone and Google's own Nexus
One. To me it seems like Apple is taking a jab at Android more so than HTC.

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mikeknoop
Gizmodo (<http://gizmodo.com/5537316>) is claiming they've seen the 5 patents
which HTC is allegedly suing with.

"Two are related to power management, two are over personalized phone dialers,
and one's over a telephone dialer with easy access memory—pretty menial stuff,
compared to everything Apple is slamming HTC with."

~~~
apgwoz
Does it matter how menial the patent claims are? If Apple is indeed
infringing, then HTC has the choice to offer a license at whatever cost they
want, do they not?

HTC is in the same boat. If HTC is found to have violated any of Apple's
patents, Apply too can slam HTC for licensing fees or whatever else.

~~~
rubyrescue
i've been involved in a few of these... it matters because ultimately it could
come down to a jury trial and then a judge's decision regarding damages. how
'big' the claims are matters to the real people making the decisions in the
courtroom. they're not going to award billions of dollars of damages for a
minor claim, for instance, and claims can sometimes be worked around, so often
the damage done to the infringed party is what's at stake, plus penalties.
(admittedly, this is an oversimplification)

i've sat in a room full of people discussing these issues ad nauseam and i can
tell you with 100% confidence that this is like a poker game, the size of the
chip stack affects the confidence, timing, positioning, etc, of the players
throughout the whole game. if one side has a great set of claims and the other
doesn't, it definitely matters.

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kylec
I must admit, I have a morbid curiosity to see what would happen to Apple's
stock price if they were ordered to cease selling the iPhone, iPad, and iPod
Touch.

~~~
jobeirne
Why the curiosity? You're unsure of what would happen?

~~~
kylec
What, yes, but I'm curious about the degree to which it happens and the
aftermath of that.

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MikeCapone
My question: How is any of this (from either side) benefiting the users?

~~~
not_an_alien
It's not, but it's something all companies resort to due to the failure that
is the current patent system.

~~~
TallGuyShort
I think he's asking because HTC said they were doing this to (among other
things) protect their customers

~~~
not_an_alien
All companies will say this, I guess.

In HTC case's, I guess it's because they have to defend themselves. Giving in
and wasting money or removing features could be understood as a disservice to
their customers.

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teilo
Is it too much to hope for that there will be a back-room mediating deal
where, essentially, both companies drop their existing patent lawsuits and
grant one another license to the patents in question? I think that would be
better for everybody.

Then they can compete on the merits of their respective products. What a novel
idea.

~~~
protomyth
If the patents are what HTC says they are then it will probably come down to a
cross-licensing situation. I would expect Nokia / Apple to happen the same
way. People are adding a little too much drama into this stuff.

~~~
mechanical_fish
Yes, what do you mean "too much to hope for"? It would be downright weird if
anything _other_ than a cross-licensing deal came out of this. All these suits
and countersuits are just the lawyerly version of a threat display:

[http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=...](http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=threat+display&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=HP7qS7WjJMP48AaNoY3PDg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDsQsAQwAw&start=0&uss=1)

~~~
jacquesm
I just had this vision of lawyers in courtrooms that do patent litigation
sporting mandatory extra-large Baboon style mandibles.

You are absolutely right, that is exactly what it is.

Never even thought of it that way, brilliant insight.

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mikeknoop
As Jason Kincaid of TechCrunch points out: "HTC recently forged an agreement
with Microsoft that would 'provides broad coverage under Microsoft’s patent
portfolio for HTC’s mobile phones running the Android mobile platform'."

I wonder what role that agreement plays into this suit.

~~~
naner
I wonder how much money Microsoft is making by providing patent coverage for
Linux. They got Amazon to pay up, too. God knows how many companies have been
coerced into paying these absurd licensing fees to MS just because they use
Linux somewhere. I guess TomTom is an example of what could happen when you
don't play ball.

~~~
mikeknoop
From a strategic point of view for Microsoft (and assuming the assertion in
the OP is true), why would Microsoft be willing to help HTC (and consequently,
Android) considering that Microsoft has a competing platform due for arrival
later this year?

~~~
wvenable
Who do you think will making those Windows 7 phones?

[http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?lang=1033&id=124244](http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?lang=1033&id=124244)

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MWinther
Not that they necessarily say that much, but it would still be interesting to
see the names of the patents in question.

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DeusExMachina
_HTC believes the industry should be driven by healthy competition and
innovation that offer consumers the best, most accessible mobile experiences
possible,” [...] We are taking this action against Apple to protect our
intellectual property, our industry partners, and most importantly our
customers that use HTC phones.”_

Please, stop this bullshit! What you really meant was "we are suing Apple
because they sued us", just like Apple sued Nokia because Nokia sued them.

Please forgive my rant, but I just can stand companies telling they believe in
healthy competition while they are suing competitors trying to shut off the
competition.

~~~
ergo98
>Please, stop this bullshit! What you really meant was "we are suing Apple
because they sued us"

Which is pretty much exactly what they said.

Your rant is kind of misdirected. HTC's countersuit is basically saying "Frig
off Apple and fight us in the market, not in the courts", so yeah they are
saying they believe in competition.

~~~
devinj
"We are taking this action against Apple to protect [...] our customers"

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jrockway
Well, yeah. Their customers Google, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon want to be
able to offer smartphones. With HTC out of the equation, that becomes more
difficult. With less options, the price is driven up, making smartphones less
accessible to those that might benefit from them.

Without someone to keep Apple in check, the 1984 dystopia would already be
upon us.

~~~
devinj
My response was directed at a comment that claimed they said, "we are suing
Apple because they sued us". In fact, they said "we're suing Apple to help our
customers (etc.)!" which is much different.

Your argument is less direct, and it doesn't interest me so much. Yes, by
fighting for their self-preservation (if it is at stake) they help consumers
by maintaining competition and/or variety.

