
There's no speed limit (2009) - tnorthcutt
http://sivers.org/kimo
======
sivers
Surprised to see a post of mine here on Hacker News. (First time in a long
time. Thanks!)

Feel free to ask me absolutely anything here.

~~~
andmcgregor
Great post Derek! What would be your best advice for someone with no technical
skills (except html/css) who is going to start to learn how to code?

Since our interview in Singapore I've decided to devote myself 100% to
learning to code (Rails to start with) during the second half of the year (I
applied the 80/20 principal to my documentary re-interviews and travel).

When someone asks: "I really want to learn how to code, what should I do?" the
answer is always the same: It's possible + you've just got to devote the time
toward learning. If you are passionate about it you will stick with it. The
answer has always been pretty clear for me: you just sit down and start
learning how to code.

Basically, learning technical skills for me are kind of an inevitability
rather than something I'm thinking about. I'm just looking for advice in
regards to learning and efficiency. I really like your ideas + philosophy
about self-learning, and remember you talking about learning methods in a
Mixergy interview, e.g. spaced repetition software for language learning. Any
similar advice about coding?

Basically, is there a way to increase the speed limit when learning to code?

Would you also recommend working on a web application while learning to code
(since you started CD Baby in a similar way)?

Thanks in advance for the reply :)

~~~
sivers
The best approaches I've found are:

<http://www.codeschool.com/>

and

<http://eloquentjavascript.net/>

But I do think it's crucial to have some little project that's actually live
and launched, that people are using, that you can add things to and constantly
improve.

It helps you get immediate feedback, and remember why you're doing what you're
doing: to make other people's lives better!

You don't want to just be learning in a vaccuum for months or years, not being
of benefit to anyone except some maybe-future-self years from now.

Even if you start with some plain HTML site, and add nothing but a dumb "The
time is now " + Time.now() -- then at least you've started, and you can
improve from there.

As you go through Code School, or Eloquent JavaScript, or whatever other ways
you learn, try to find a way to apply what you've learned to your site.

And lastly: learning by NECESSITY is the most effective way. If you HAVE to
figure out how to make your site do some kind of function because you have
people complaining to you that it's not, then you'll go figure out how to do
it, and remember it with an intensity that you just don't get from, "OK, now
it's time for Chapter 7."

~~~
detst
> If you HAVE to figure out how to make your site do some kind of function
> because you have people complaining to you that it's not, then you'll go
> figure out how to do it [...]

That's very similar to advice from Patio11 that I just read over on Askolo¹:

> Rate of learning increases by an absolutely stupid amount by launching a
> product and having users [...]

1\. <http://askolo.com/patio11>

------
reason
This is a great article. My problem is, however, that I take it to the
extreme: I set unrealistic goals for myself seeing as there are about 50
different things I want to learn outside of school. I almost always never meet
my goals, and I become really discouraged.

It also seems like most successful people can point to an event, person, etc,
in their past that served as a great turning point in putting them on the path
to success. I just can't seem to put myself in a position for that to happen.

Derek, any tips?

~~~
sivers
First: Don't be a donkey. <http://sivers.org/donkey>

Also, ask yourself of those 50 different goals, which is something you HATE
NOT doing? <http://sivers.org/hatenot>

Focus on that goal, and let go of the rest.

See my other reply here about the conditions of "flow". One is that you need
to be getting immediate positive feedback on your actions. Maybe your 50
different goals aren't giving you any progress feedback, because they never
get enough of your time to make progress?

Imagine kind of like some people take a 10-day meditation retreat, or a 7-day
fast, maybe what you need is like a 10-day "ONLY ONE GOAL" retreat.

Pick the one thing that matters most, and only work towards that one thing.
It's almost physically painful to ignore the other 49 at first, but soon the
rewards from that one will be worth it. Then it feeds on itself, and perhaps
could be your turning point.

~~~
Aushin
Is it possible to be a semi-donkey? I have, if I were to try to count, 4 major
'things' going on in my life right now. One is keeping fit, one is keeping up
with free online learning resources like Udacity, one is my job, and one is
learning to play guitar.

Are you suggesting that if I don't drop three of those, I won't succeed in any
of them? That worries me a bit, because the job part takes up LOTS and LOTS of
time, far more than the other three combined.

~~~
sivers
We all have multiple goals. (Be healthy. Be a great programmer. Be a great
dad. Etc.)

You'll know if you have so many that it's holding you back, and paralyzing
you.

If it's not a problem, if you're able to progress on all of them, then
congrats! No need to change anything because of a silly blog post. ☺

~~~
Aushin
Thanks for the quick response. I'm a bit more at ease now. And the post was
anything but silly. It makes a really powerful point!

------
silverbax88
My favorite nugget:

" I run across kids all the time who say they want to be a great musician. I
tell them I can help, and tell them to show up at my studio at 9am if they're
serious. Almost nobody ever does."

I've learned this after so many years. Everyone talks about wanting to be
successful. No one ever means it. Having someone just show up is a miracle.

~~~
unimpressive
As goes the famous Woody Allen quote that a large portion of life is just
showing up. If a hacker gave me an offer like that I'd feel incredibly foolish
_not_ showing up. But then I guess you can discount that as talk until such a
situation were to actually present itself.

But yeah, the disconnect between peoples words and their actions is laughably
ridiculous.

~~~
matwood
_Actions speak louder than words._

A lot of people say a lot things, but few act. Showing up and doing something
puts a person ahead of many.

------
j45
Awesome thread.

I had two massively influential mentors like this in middle and high school.

Both were teachers who cleared the path for me. Instead of the curriculum
other students did I was given one that challenged me. 95% if I got the new
computer lab setup over the weekend. I was pushed to help integrate technology
into all the schools clubs, which in turn required me to join a whack of clubs
I never would have, nor made diversely interested friends.

While I was in school, much of this did happen outside the classroom. By
saving my school 50 to 80,000/year in network administration costs. By
creating (or saving) this much value I was supported with my own office, phone
number, expense account to buy books or things for learning, attend
conferences, and generally have my run of the school, including a pre-signed
pad of late slips to use when I ran late from my commitments.

There was so much that got built as a byproduct of my time because I was going
so fast. The difference 10 or 15 years later? I had far fewer responsibilities
to other areas of my life (and others) back then.

Age inevitably eats up more time and it's a reality, if you want a balanced
life with more than just work in it. This might be a kiss of death to some
startup types, but it presented a new challenge to me and I ended up pursuing
a consulting business to forever float me while chasing startup ideas.

------
felideon
Hi Derek, thanks for an awesome thread and your many enlightening blog posts.
(I'm surprised you're surprised to see a post of yours here :P)

What advice do you have for a generalist? I feel I can learn things quickly,
but I don't get great at anything -- maybe due to a lack of motivation and a
surplus of procrastination.

I'm a back-end programmer who likes front-end development, only because I'm
not a great UI designer (but would love to be). I also love playing the piano
and singing, but I haven't had a lesson in 12 years. (People tell me I have a
nice voice.) I'm bilingual and fluent in a third language, and I could easily
learn more if I had more time.

The path I'm currently on is to keep working and practicing front-end
development, and possibly learn how to design. As I hone those skills I plan
to start building software to one day quit corporate America. On the other
hand, I love the music as a hobby thing, but feel that I'm not great. (I'm
surrounded by very talented musicians from my wife's side of the family.)

I'm not even sure what my question is, but any advice would be s/kind of
cool/greatly appreciated/.

Edit: I think my problem is not knowing what to focus on, and whether or not I
should specialize in something or keep learning new things. (And if so, how to
choose that something.)

~~~
sivers
Felipe: Sorry I didn't see your question until hours later.

See <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3761474>

It's not your exact question, but similar, and led to some other comments in
that thread.

I hope that helps.

~~~
felideon
No worries, I figured you had taken off. Thanks for responding and bringing
your other comment to my attention — I glossed over it too quickly to make the
connection.

Cheers, best of luck on your new projects.

------
dmd149
It's definitely helpful to understand that there is no real speed limit.

Conversely, I think it's also useful to think that there's no rush.

I sometimes get in my head that "if I don't have X millions by the time I'm
30, I'll be a failure."

I realized it's too stressful to think that way.

It's probably more important to think there are no speed requirements at all.
Move as slow or as fast as you need/want.

Great post!

~~~
bkmartin
I would say that maybe you should refine your metrics? What significance is x
millions? Is that how success is defined? Or do you define success by doing
something great? Typically when you do something great, in the world of
products and business, the money follows. If you can turn out a great product
in x months that gains hundreds of thousands or millions of users, would that
be a better metric? I'm not saying your metric is wrong, I'm just challenging
you to consider what the proper metric of success is for you.

The author didn't use $ as his measuring stick, he used a skill or status. So
do you want to make $, or do you want to make awesome stuff, or do awesome
things? Figure it out, then use it to define your metrics and drive your
success. I can't see how, "there's no rush", can be remotely true. You only
get x days, if day x is = tomorrow then you only have 1 more day. You never
know when day x = tomorrow, so I would say there is always a rush.

~~~
dmd149
It's more the mindset I'm concerned with. An extrinsic outcome oriented
mindset leads to a lot of stress. Whenever I've set demanding performance
goals for myself within a short time frame like write 10 blog posts a month or
something similar, I don't enjoy the process and I usually don't end up
writing all 10.

On the other hand, if I say my goal is to get in the habit of writing one
sentence everyday, the end result is much better and I'm less stressed about
it.

I think process oriented goals can actually end up being more productive than
outcome oriented goals.

------
raheemm
Derek, ended up reading the followup article about advice you gave to an
incoming Berklee class where you mention:

 _Focus. Disconnect. Do not be distracted. This is your #1 most important
challenge. If you master focus, you will be in control of your world. If you
don't, it will control you._

Seems like focusing nowadays is almost impossible. There are so many time
sucks, so close at hand.

~~~
sivers
Yes! I agree! This is one of our biggest current challenges!

Actually, Paul Graham has written two of the best essays about it:

<http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html>

and

<http://www.paulgraham.com/distraction.html>

“Focus” by Leo Babauta is quite good, too: <http://sivers.org/book/Focus>

------
krmmalik
I think there are a whole load of kids out there that could benefit from a "no
speed limit" policy. I think the larger problem is that there aren't enough
teachers that can set the pace. I remember, as a kid, reading an article in
the paper about how two 10 year old kids had completed a computing A level
course (i'm from the UK). I was 11 myself at the time and so much wanted to do
that course. My parents looked in many places and couldnt find a way for me to
be able to take that course any sooner than what the national curriculum had
prescribed. After a few years, i got distracted and lost my enthusiasm and
determination.

I'm having the same problem learning Node. js right now. I had been trying to
teach myself, but my progress was going rather slowly. Then along came a
mentor that help me achieve in just a few hours what i wasn't able to achieve
in over a month. And then he disappeared, and im stuck at snails pace again.

Maybe that's just the story of my life, or maybe that the story, period.

~~~
karterk
Have you tried hanging out in the node.js IRC channel? Help is just a step
away! The node mailing lists are also pretty helpful.

You can also feel free to email me (email in profile) - I have been working on
node for more than a year now on a decent sized project.

~~~
krmmalik
I tried the IRC channel about a year ago, but at that time i was so new to
Node that i felt a little out of place. It seems you had to be at least
intermediate level with node to really start chatting to people. You have to
remember that i'm new to programming itself as well as Node. That said, i
should repay the place a visit.

I was always worried about IRC etiquette. What i mean to say is - is it
considered poor etiquette to just dive in and start asking for help?

Anyway - i think the larger problem for me hasnt been just getting stuck with
Node - it's been more about knowing what is the next step to take in terms of
the project since im new to development too. That's where having a mentor was
very useful.

What are your thoughts?

~~~
karterk
Yes, people just drop into the IRC channel and ask questions. The worst thing
that can possibly happen is you hear no answer (mostly because no one might be
around).

The node mailing list is a good place for asking questions too. Often, the
more focussed your question is, the better it is. So, instead of asking
something vague - ask about specific areas you are facing problems with. Also,
when asking a question, explaining what you tried to do to solve the problem
yourselves helps people better understand your problem and offer constructive
help.

~~~
krmmalik
great advice - Thank you.

------
kickstart
Derek, this thread really resonates with me. I've been at a crossroads between
2 distinct paths for several years. Path A is a road I've been on for almost
14 yrs, and I've grown weary of it. W/o going into explanation, things have
slowed on that road, and won't move forward w/o considerable effort. But I
know exactly what needs to be done, there's little risk, it's very practical,
and I will have company in the process, which I've come to realize is very
important to me. On the other hand, I've always wondered about this Path B,
w/o ever having taken any significant steps towards it. So I'd be starting
from scratch, and yet it seems much less complex than Path A. I wouldn't have
any company for probably a few years on Path B, so it's sure to be a lonely
road at first. In the end it would be quite rewarding I'm sure, but I'd be
letting down a lot of people by abondoning Path A. And I'm fairly certain that
there's not enough time to pursue both Paths and do either one of them
justice. Your thoughts on this??? Many thanks...

~~~
sivers
ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT, choose Path B.

Life is f'ing short! When you're old and looking back on your life, you'll
mostly remember the changes, the big events. These big changes are the hooks
you hang your memories on.

You'll always remember that 2012 is the year you chose Plan B. You'll remember
this big change in your life, and all the other new experiences it's going to
create.

This is part of living a full life! This is crucial!

14 years is plenty of time on Path A. You got the benefits out of it. You
learned your lessons. You've been there, done that. Time to go!

I can't emphasize this enough. I think it's SO important.

Every time I've made a major change in my life, it's always turned out for the
better. Sometimes I even thought they were failures, in the moment - (divorce,
selling my company, etc) - but they always turned out wonderful.

~~~
kickstart
I was afraid you'd say that.

Opting for Path B would actually make life a lot easier than you realize. An
endless list of very time-consuming tasks disappear if I finally get off Path
A, and a huge weight would be lifted from my shoulders.

Of course Path B seems the obvious choice. But previous attempts on that path
have several times ground to a halt, admittedly because I get in my own way. I
can't help but wonder: why am I not pysched? Shouldn't my desire be enough to
push me forward? If I knew I wanted it badly enough, would I even need to have
this conversation with you?

Btw, you and I are acquainted - we went to Berklee together. It'll be
something if this exchange ends up being the turning point. Thanks again for
taking the time!

~~~
sivers
> "Why am I not psyched?"

Because it's f'ing terrifying!

See <http://sivers.org/book/WarOfArt>

He calls it "resistance". We'll make any excuse not to do the thing that we
know is our highest calling.

~~~
kickstart
Wow, now THAT resonates with me. Big Time.

You're right, and I know it, scary though it may be. It shall be Path B.

Thanks, Derek!

------
jseliger
I teach English Honors composition, and on the last day of each semester I
send this as part of my "Last E-mail:"

 _Now for the small message that's really big. This is the post that could but
probably won't change your life: "There’s no speed limit. (The lessons that
changed my life)":<http://sivers.org/kimo> . I say "could," because most of
you probably won't click the link; of those of you who do, most of you won't
read the whole thing; of those of you who do, most of you won't get it; of
those of you who do, most of you won't implement it. On the off chance that
one out of 50 of you let this change your life, however, I'm sending it. The
writer of "There's no speed limit" also wrote a book called Anything You Want,
and reading it is probably one of the best ways you can spend an hour._

(This is after I tell them about the not clicking the link, not reading it,
etc.) in class.

~~~
sivers
Wow! Thanks Jake! I really appreciate it.

~~~
jseliger
Thanks for writing _Anything You Want_. I've written about it on my blog
(<http://jseliger.com>) and elsewhere; I'm actually working on an essay about
how to think about science and becoming a scientist that mentions a section
from "There Is No Speed Limit."

Good writing is good writing.

------
norswap
Honestly, I don't believe it. I know nothing about music, but at least in my
field of study (computer science) I doubt this can apply.

There is a limit and it is very plain: time. You can only soak in so much
knowledge at a time, and knowing in theory is very different from knowing in
practice (but you definitely need both). Practice takes time, especially if
you practice to understand theory. You have to make mistakes, they are the
single most important thing to understand something in my experience. You need
the "haha" moment when you understand why something doesn't work and how it
has driven theory/research in the field.

You can go maybe go faster than the computer science program at X. Maybe twice
or thrice as fast, if you're gifted. But you cannot go as fast as you want,
that is just wishful thinking.

------
el_zorro
I have found that this is very true. Right now, I'm studying physics at the
undergraduate level. It's hard, but at the same time it doesn't feel
challenging. I don't feel like I get very much out of my lessons. However, I
did manage to get myself a job in one of the space science labs here on
campus. I have learned so much from that work, simply because it is expected
that I be as capable as the graduate students I work with. I have learned
much, much more advanced physics and internalized it than I could ever do in
my basic physics class. It's the challenge that educates you.

------
apa-sl
Wow, great story! I have understood similar thing just recently a year ago but
I am already "old" (28 years). Nevertheless I totally agree - there is no
speed limit! Funny thing that lately I have made a second approach to the
piano from the scratch and... it worked! After just 4 weeks I am far better
that during the first attempt few years ago and few months of learning. This
time I simply have found the right teacher which is constantly challenging me.

Hope that finally I will also manage to make it happen business wise with
Y-Combinator! ;-)

------
kenrikm
I skipped the second part of my degree (I have an Associates) instead I went
and got a job, I moved from the junior designer to the manager within less
than a year (Managing people who had been there for 15+ years) and Art
Director within two years where I ended up hiring an employee who had spent
those two years in "The same program" that I would have been had I not ignored
the "speed limit" to this day that employee is still just "a designer".

Remember, you make your own rules in life. Walls only exist in your head.

------
stacymcardle
I work so hard and am always just getting by. Never ahead of the game. This
effects my happiness because I feel a lack of freedom when money is always
such an issue. I'm looking for a way to accept what is and find happiness in
other ways, than say, my dream of going to Europe. Meditation seems to calm me
but I feel a sense of disgust in myself because I am not making a good living,
even though I should be proud of myself for working so hard and being good at
what I do. Thanks for any thoughts.

------
ivancdg
It seems to me that one of the reasons CDBaby was/is so successful is because
its primary customers are _musicians_ , rather than consumers of music.

Strictly speaking CDBaby sells to both categories (it sells a service to
musicians, and CDs to customers).

But to me, as a professional musician, it seems that people buy less music in
product form now. Therefore the real customers for music-based products
are...the musicians themselves.

There are more musicians than ever before. All are competing against one
another. As a result, they are willing to spend their disposable income on
promotions, marketing.

Providing a service like CDBaby's was a brilliant way of tapping into that
emerging market.

What made it disruptive was: the price-point, the musician-friendly ethos, the
dependability and speed of the customer service.

As a musician/entrepreneur, it seems to me that very few startups realize that
they may be more successful asking musicians to pay for something than finding
'customers' for their 'products' in the old fashioned (read: recording
industry) mold.

Of course spinning the story to sound musician friendly is delicate...and
essential.

Do you see other opportunities for charging the growing contingent of
musicians for a service that is worthwhile?

------
wkriski
Where are you? What are you doing now? What is your next big project?

Love Awaken the Giant Within. I've been trying to sell online guitar courses
for many years, but now I've settled on doing well-paying remote IT contracts
and taking months off in between to practice jazz guitar improvisation. I love
sharing what I've learned but I guess it doesn't have to be a money maker,
just something we all instinctively love to do.

~~~
sivers
Living in Singapore : <http://sivers.org/singapore>

Learning Rails, JavaScript, jQuery, Backbone.js

Programming these things: <http://50pop.com/code>

That's all. :-)

------
krosaen
I wonder if the most important advice from this is to believe you can succeed
rather than the idea of keeping a break-neck schedule. In my experience,
success in learning something new starts with a sustainable daily practice; if
you _actually_ spend a half hour a day at something, you will see results in a
couple of months. For instance, you could have made your way through the ml-
class.org lectures and absorbed all of the material, or made your way through
all the beginner lessons from justinguitar.com.

That's not to say someone couldn't spend 5 hours a day blazing through the ml-
class.org lectures, but if spending 30 minutes a day means you can actually
stick with it, that's a whole lot better than spending 5 hours a day for a
week and then burning out. Same goes for fitness - 30 minutes a day of walking
for _the rest of your life_ is sooo much better than doing 2 weeks of p90x and
burning out. If you can do p90x ever day for the rest of your life, kudos to
you, but I've witness at least 2 friends buy and then burn out on p90x before
getting any meaningful results.

------
S_A_P
Derek,

One thing I have noticed about many of your blogs/talks is that you have an
innate sense of optimism. Is this a learned trait of yours or was this
something you picked up as you made your way through life and found success?
While I dont feel that I am a pessimist, I do wish I could improve my sense of
optimism/anything is possible with work/focus. Any tips?

Thanks and I always enjoy your posts.

~~~
sivers
My optimism is a little bit innate, but mostly learned.

It was something I got from Tony Robbins : that you can choose how you want to
feel about anything. (We usually act like we can't help the way we feel. But
we can consciously choose and change how we feel.)

No matter what happens, you can choose to ask, "What's great about this?" Even
if you're not in the mood. Even if cranky or pissed-off, you can still force
yourself to ask that, out of habit. Then the pessimism slowly dissolves, and
you start to get optimistic again.

Then it feeds off itself. Somehow when you're optimistic, things go your way
more often. Then that encourages you further, etc.

Actually these days I'm SO optimistic that it can work against me! I
optimistically over-estimate my ability to do things. I optimistically think
I'll just get fit and healthy through good intentions. Etc.

Sometimes a dose of painful pessimism can achieve more. (Though I guess if you
realize that's the attitude that would be more helpful for you, you can choose
to be pessimistic, too. As long as you know it's an intentional choice.)

~~~
SatvikBeri
The book _Succeed_ covers the topic of what kinds of optimism and pessimism
help you achieve your goals pretty thoroughly ([http://www.amazon.com/Succeed-
How-Can-Reach-Goals/dp/0452297...](http://www.amazon.com/Succeed-How-Can-
Reach-Goals/dp/0452297710/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1332871610&sr=8-3)). Two big
takeaways:

1\. Be optimistic when setting high level, year-long goals. But be pessimistic
when drawing out all the implementation details of what you'll actually have
to do to achieve those goals.

2\. Be pessimistic about the difficulty of anything you want to achieve, but
optimistic about your ability to conquer those difficulties.

------
aangjie
Darn it.. Sometimes i wish i had found a teacher like this. i.e: someone who
could teach at my pace and not the class' average pace.

~~~
sivers
I think you have to go outside the school to find those kind of teachers.
They've got an intrinsic motivation to prove they can teach better than the
school's standard pace.

~~~
jseliger
In schools as they're currently structured, there's virtually no incentive to
do this kind of thing, and quite strong disincentives to: taking special
interest in a particular student is often viewed with sexually-tinged
suspicion.

Most students, including the smarter ones, don't really understand this, which
is also part of the problem; I wrote "How to get your professors' attention,
along with coaching and mentoring" ([http://jseliger.com/2010/10/02/how-to-
get-your-professors%E2...](http://jseliger.com/2010/10/02/how-to-get-your-
professors%E2%80%99-attention-or-how-to-get-the-coaching-and-mentorship-you-
need/)) in part to remedy this knowledge deficit.

------
jonmb
Sivers, just wanted to thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience. I
know it has had an effect on me. Everyone, I highly recommend you check out
Derek's "Uncommon Sense" videos, available free here:
<http://www.appsumo.com/sivers/>

~~~
sivers
Thanks Jon! I really appreciate it. That's really nice to hear.

------
acchow
Uhhhh...ok, so you learned music theory quickly. Take a shot at any algebra
(ring theory, algebraic topology) and you'll quickly discover there is a very
concrete speed limit. (This also holds true for all fields of pure
mathematics, its just more pronounced in algebra).

------
mmaunder
Great blog entry and often quoted on HN:
[https://www.google.fr/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8...](https://www.google.fr/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+http%3A%2F%2Fsivers.org%2Fkimo)

------
hef19898
I'm almost jealous that you had a teacher as great as you did! We need more
Kinos!!!

~~~
sivers
I'm jealous of my past self, too.

I wish I had a new Kimo in my life, that could help me deeply grok programming
as intensely as he did.

~~~
hef19898
I guess I'm even more pissed with myself then jealous, because the only time I
actually had Kimo in my life I myself weren't ready for that. Now I think I
would be, but the opportunity is gone...

So, let's hope you meet more than one Kimo in your life time!

------
lukifer
Hear, hear. When I tested into an advanced math class in 7th grade, I was able
to learn the prerequisite semester of pre-algebra in less than an hour by
sitting down with a great teacher and plowing through the material. But in my
scholastic life, this experience was the exception, not the rule.

I understand the desire to teach to the slowest students; no one should ever
be left behind, and faster does not inherently equal better. But we are doing
both young people and society a disservice when we don't find ways for the
quick learners to hit escape velocity so they can get to things that genuinely
challenge them.

------
daspanters
Hi Derek, Loved your book, two quick questions, (1) Up to today, how far did
you get in using RoR for your new projects and (2) what is your "Kimo's
advise" on speed learning it ? (coming from the Microsoft world).

~~~
sivers
(1) I'm torn on Rails. It's so so so SO much ecosystem to learn just to make a
basic web app. I find that I'm much more attracted to Sinatra. Also I prefer
Sequel to ActiveRecord. Also, I really want to try playing with the
architecture of a JSON REST API back-end and a JavaScript front-end (like
Backbone.js). So for that, it seems Sinatra + Sequel suits me better. I'm
trying this way for now, and if it doesn't work out, I'll commit a few hundred
hours to learning Rails whole ecosystem. (Then I guess keeping up with it
constantly.)

(2) Oooh. Good question. It wasn't advice that made the difference. It was a
style of teaching. Standing above me, pushing me further than I knew, but
somehow still on the edge of my abilities. Making me figure things out for
myself instead of giving me the answer.

The closest I've seen someone come to systemizing it is Code School :
<http://www.codeschool.com/>

I love that style of "here's a little info, now figure out this problem."

~~~
daspanters
You have no idea how valuable your responses are to me, I consider it a
priviledge that you took the time to answer my questions, thank you very much!
I like the idea also of going Sinatra, use Rails functionality if needed but
otherwise keeping it simpler, there is always the chance to go with the full-
blown version (Rails). Thanks again for sharing and taking the time!

------
GFischer
I remembered having seen it here before (it's a classic and worth revisiting)

Previous discussion:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=970945>

------
kpennell
I really appreciate your writing, TED talks, ideas, and the humble and
positive way in which you present your work.

I think one of the problems I struggled with the most with this type of
thinking is feeling like I'm being conceited or thinking that "I'm special"
when I try to remove speed limits. I've always learned a lot of things fairly
fast but I think I limited myself by subconsciously not wanting to feel better
than other people.

~~~
sivers
Yes! Absolutely! It takes a strong ego to say, "Hell I'm better than all these
other mofos. Get out of my way, slow-pokes!"

It's got a competitive edge to it. You'd need that same attitude if competing
in sports.

And, like sports, it doesn't mean you're a jerk for wanting to achieve as much
as you can, or more than everyone else. It's just a relative-comparison thing
that gives you an extra boost.

You need to feel you're special, that the rules don't apply to you, Neo. ☺

------
edw519
Wow, what a great thread!

Just another thing that makes Hacker News so good: read something written by
an expert and then engage in a discussion with that expert.

Derek, please go to www.askolo.com and register today. This is a brand new
Hacker News inspired site built specifically for this purpose. These guys are
trying to build and reach critical mass and your presence there would be
greatly appreciated by me and many others, I'm sure.

~~~
villagefool
This is the second time today that I hear about Askolo, seems more then a
quincidence (heavy PR going on?). How are they different from Quora?

~~~
jedc
I can only imagine they're a YC startup, based on the people I see active
there after I registered. (PG, JL, other YC partners) With Demo Day today,
things are picking up PR-wise. :)

~~~
WA
On a side note regarding askolo:

I'm not so sure if the name is perfectly chosen. You know that olo is ASCII
art for a penis and balls?

<http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=olo>

This reminds me of the story when VW advertised their Golf GTI with "Turbo
Cojones". Somehow, the marketing department (in Germany?) obviously didn't
realize the meaning of "cojones".

edit: typo

------
grn
Visit Kimo's website (<http://www.kimowilliams.com>) and listen to the music.
It's really nice.

------
ricardobeat
In most universities there _is_ a speed limit: you can't "test out" of classes
unless you've had them somewhere else, and pre-requisites, minimum optional
credits and required internships prevent you from speeding through.

I really wish most courses would be 2 years long. Plenty of time to get the
university experience and learn all you need, everyone's head is already far
out after the 8th semester.

------
acak
An interesting place to compare comments at.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=970945>

------
f4stjack
Great article, loved it. I also liked the booklist (<http://sivers.org/book>).

------
merraksh
Previous discussion:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=970945>

------
richardk
I don't buy this, I spent the first two years of my degree working as this guy
suggests and completely burnt myself out. Now I take things easy, I'm still
getting good grades and I'm a lot more relaxed. The other things I want to
learn (not covered in my degree) can wait.

But... maybe I'm just a chump...

------
steerb
Is this a way of saying one should always live on the edge of incompetence?
Edit: I ask this, because I have difficulties applying your ideas on fields
where I don't have any good teachers around (e.g., lets say I want to become a
better cook).

~~~
sivers
Sorry your question got a little lost & downvoted.

See another reply, above, about the difficulty in finding a great teacher.

------
cfinger
Absolutely love this. When you're really interested, find a teacher that will
teach at your own rate. Too often the answer is "Don't worry about that,
you'll learn it next semester". A phrase that you should never hear from a
teacher!

------
killa_bee
People who think "going to college is for chumps" (and there are a lot of you
on HN) should do this instead. It's not that hard to graduate college in 2-3
years.

------
dtbx
It's called the Pygmalion effect

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect>

------
raheemm
Derek, wow you were a driven kid! What lead you to be in such a hurry to get
through school?

~~~
sivers
I was in a hurry to get famous!

I wanted to be a rock star. Ain't no fun waiting 'round to be a millionaire!
Gotta hurry.

------
Bjartr
I am very jealous you found someone to guide and challenge you like that.

------
jhuni
The speed of light (c) is the cosmic speed limit.

------
1_wave
Derek, What is the relationship of cell behavior to, 1. tribalism & 2\. music
(answer may be rendered in form of improvisation dance/one man silent opera)

~~~
sivers
I just did an interpretive dance to explain my answer.

Man, you shoulda seen it. I'm exhausted now, but it was awesome.

~~~
1_wave
I sensed something.. and channeled it into the omelet of another, a someone,
somewhere..

------
petegrif
Just a GREAT post. Thanks.

