
For Thanksgiving, give your parents a treat: upgrade their browser - evo_9
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/11/for-thanksgiving-give-your-parents-a-treat-upgrade-their-browser.ars
======
charleso
"Well, everything worked fine until you installed that [Chrome | Firefox |
Opera] thing on my computer."

Doing free tech support for non-technical people is a wonderful thought, but
it can also provide a harsh lesson in the dangers of unlimited liability for
open-ended, no-fee, no-contract work.

~~~
code_duck
I don't have a problem with unlimited liability to do work for my parents...

Anyway, I installed Linux on my mother's system over Win XP years back and it
couldn't have gone better. She has been doing great with Ubuntu for 2 years
now. The spyware, failed updates and odd networking failures I was summoned to
her house to fix frequently went away entirely, so thankfully it was the
opposite of your warning. I guess the lesson there is to only provide the best
technology, that you trust. Linux is pretty rock solid for home users today,
especially people like my mother who primarily use a browser.

~~~
jamesbkel
Similar situation here. My Dad uses his laptop for browsing and email, maybe
to scan a document every few months. After getting fed up with all the calls
about spyware and other generally weird issues I installed Ubuntu.

Since then, I've had two support calls from him: 1) "Is it safe to enter my
password when it's installing updates?" 2) "I'm at my friend's house... how do
I add a new wireless network?"

~~~
jiggy2011
Whilst it seems like a good idea to install Ubuntu on other peoples computers
there are 4 things that would stop me from doing it.

1) Flash player, this crashes allot under Linux and seems to have some weird
issues with sound where you will be listening to a video and all of a sudden
the sound will start playing from the beginning of the video in addition to
the current sound.

2) Wifi , this generally works, but Network Manager doesn't seem to be the
best piece of software and I've often had problems with it just not showing up
wireless networks which should be there. No idea why.

3) Distro updates, you have to live in fear of the time when they will
accidentally or intentionally click the "update to latest ubuntu" button when
it asks and half the drivers stop working and/or it replaces their whole user
interface with something else.

4) Other software , even if your sure they only need a browser because all
they want to do is read the news and browse cookery sites there's going to be
some point they decide to buy an ipod and ring you up asking how to install
iTunes, sure you could go and spend some time coaching them how to do this
under banshee or something but they might be concerned about why they have to
do this differently. Of course they are also likely to buy the 1 scanner /
webcam / printer etc that is known not to play well with Linux.

~~~
code_duck
I've never had a problem with Flash Player on Linux. After using it as my
primary machine for 10+ years, I started using Mac and Windows more - I can't
discern any difference in Flash performance or stability.

Network Manager is simply awful in my experience. I usually can't get it to
work for _myself_. I configure the wifi directly and set an RC script for my
mother's set-up. I think NM has gotten better recently, though.

You can set update manager to not check for a new version of Ubuntu.

Every once in a while there's hardware that doesn't work. I guess that's why I
don't go around installing Linux on random people's computers. For my parents
and girlfriend, though, it's worked very well - they all have become entirely
used to Linux, and prefer it, and I see the opposite situation that we all
know would happen if people were used to linux - they try Windows and complain
about it because it's different and they don't know where everything is.

~~~
jiggy2011
You've never had a problem with Linux Flash Player? I'm utterly astonished, I
have nothing but problems with it. Although I have a feeling this may be
partly down to the binary only nvidia drivers not playing nicely with it (I
don't get this problem with any other software).

Yes, network manager is pretty bad especially if you want to configure
multiple static IP addresses. I happily just uninstall it and configure by
hand for a server or static desktop. The problem is when you are using a
laptop and want to hop between a number of different networks, setting up a
wireless network from the command line is a major PIA and not something I'd
want to do just to use my laptop in a coffee shop.

You can set update manager not to get new versions of Ubuntu but in that case
you had better install an LTS release otherwise you'll possibly stop getting
security updates after a year or so plus you will want to keep their browser
reasonably upto date (although a 3rd party PPA may solve that).

------
jgroome
I hope nobody minds but I'd like to share what happened to me recently:

My father called me a few months ago to ask if I could go on our bank's online
banking site and tell him if I noticed anything unusual. At the time, HSBC's
online banking had the following flow: Enter your user ID as the first step,
enter your DOB as the second, and finally enter three specified digits from
your 6-figure security PIN.

It all seemed OK to me, nothing out of the ordinary, but he was telling me
that when he was prompted to enter his security PIN, the site asked for the
full number. This was a big no-no.

"So I thought I'd better call you before I do that, because it doesn't sound
right and you know about this stuff."

I went to their house the next weekend to check it out. He fired up the ol'
IE7, went to the HSBC page, completed the first step of logging in, and there
it was, clear as day. A mysterious third box prompting the user to enter their
full PIN.

I don't know exactly what put that input box there, and successive Googling
has yielded nothing specific. I assumed the damn thing had picked up some
nasty spyware, or some other malicious code with the potential to cost a lot
of people an awful lot of money. I installed Chrome, deleted the "Internet"
icon from the desktop, imported old bookmarks and the like, and let him have a
go on his new browser.

I really think we, as the more technically-minded people in our families, have
an obligation to do this for the people we care about, in a way that extends
far beyond those clever CSS animations or native video support. I'm lucky
enough that my folks know to keep their eyes open to anything fishy online,
but I had no idea he was still using IE7. The idea of him (or indeed anyone)
inadvertently giving their complete bank details to some cyber-criminals out
of completely innocent ignorance terrifies me.

~~~
nodata
> I installed Chrome, deleted the "Internet" icon from the desktop, imported
> old bookmarks and the like, and let him have a go on his new browser.

Is this a joke? Your dad's computer is rooted, so you remove an icon from the
desktop and install a different browser?

Jesus Christ.

~~~
billpatrianakos
Whoah, there. It's obviously not a joke. Dude, you made a good point but you
completely lacked any tact. You could have just simply warned the guy that
uninstalling the browser may be enough. And I believe he knows that deleting
the shortcut icon is not the same as uninstalling. It's easy to tell it was
just an important part of the story because to people who aren't tech savvy,
deleting an icon _is_ uninstalling as far as they're concerned and the
deletion of the icon was probably very significant to his father.

So chill out, man. We may be a community of techies but we can't possibly know
it all. What may seem a obvious to you may not be to another one of us. It
doesn't mean we're stupid. For example, its like the back end web programmers
who know little to nothing of front end stuff. It may seem like someone who
knows that complicated back end stuff can easily figure out HTML and CSS in an
hour but sometimes not. Just chill.

------
w1ntermute
My parents are running Linux now, but when they were on Windows, I just
changed the Firefox shortcut's icon to be the IE icon. I didn't change
anything else (not even the text below the icon from "Mozilla Firefox" to
"Internet Explorer"), but my parents of course didn't notice.

~~~
bitops
Very clever. When I first started using Linux, I always wondered why in the
world anyone would use the "Redmond" skin for the desktop.

Of course, it's for subterfuge. :)

~~~
jiggy2011
perhaps somebody should release a modern browser that is visually _identical_
to IE6.

~~~
billpatrianakos
That's such a good idea with both the icon and a browser that _looks_ like ie6
but isn't. Old UI over a new back end. Wonderful! I believe I remember a time
when you could skin Internet explorer however you like. Is that still
possible? If so, would it be realistic to believe someone can create an IE6
skin for IE9 or 10?

I haven't touched Windows in years and years so forgive me if that sounded
naive. In fact, I have a dual boot loop with Win7 and Linux and I only booted
into Windows once to download the Linux distro, haha.

------
pacomerh
I tried doing that a couple of times and they end up looking for the blue "e".
Somehow that's their symbol for "the internet". So what I did next was not
uninstall but hide the icon and leave the chrome & FF visible. Now my dad uses
Firefox and he calls it "the mozilla" hehe. And my mom somehow figured out a
way to find IE, I guess she couldn't live without it.

That was my case at least.

~~~
matt4711
I just changed the icon of chrome to the blue "e". Problem solved.

~~~
iamandrus
Same, except for FF. I wrote a theme to make it look somewhat like IE so my
dad wouldn't notice a difference.

Thank god my mom uses a Mac.

------
algoshift
Every visit:

1- Bring the system drive you cloned last year after doing a clean install

2- Swap system drives

3- Data is on separate drive, no issues there

4- Install updates/upgrades as needed

5- Create new system drive image

6- Clone to the old drive

7- Swap system drives again so you always keep the drive with the least run
time as backup

8- Create and save new data drive image if desired

10- Ensure that user account has no administrative privileges

11- Let them know that some of the cheese moved, for the better.

Do this on an yearly basis.

It's easy.

Everyone will get used to it.

You'll sleep well at night.

------
code_duck
Browser? Why stop there! I just installed Ubuntu 11.10 on my mother's netbook.
It runs about 5 times as fast as Windows 7 was going on that machine and
provides 100% of the software she wants to use and 0% of what she doesn't
(stable OS, choice of the latest Opera/FF/Chrome, photo management... and no
malware).

------
vaksel
with all the virus makers out there and pure hate for IE, you'd think by now,
someone would devise one that would automatically upgrade all browsers on the
infected machine.

------
crudx
Also, delete all those toolbars.

~~~
damncabbage
After, you know, asking.

~~~
Tichy
You mean there could be people who actually want the toolbars?

~~~
bzbarsky
Lots of people apparently liked the Google Toolbar for Firefox (even though it
was installed along with other software, hijacked your bookmarks, and
generally behaved pretty much like every other malware toolbar out there).
More to the point, since it hijacked your bookmarks, if you uninstalled the
toolbar all your bookmarks disappeared.

~~~
kijin
I always back up the bookmarks before doing any maintenance on someone else's
browser.

~~~
bzbarsky
Last I checked, it hijacked the normal browser bookmark stuff, so backing up
the browser's bookmarks wouldn't back up what the user saw.

------
fasouto
Pro tip: dont insist, 99% of them will never change the browser, instead
install Chrome Frame

~~~
thechangelog
That's actually been the opposite of my experience. A year in, my inlaws still
thank me for installing Chrome.

------
dhughes
Forget my parents want my workplace to get rid of IE6!

------
davedx
How about 'give your corporation's internal IT devs a treat' and upgrade from
IE6? Individual users aren't the problem... :)

------
gebloom39
Least my son could do, after all those years of editing the ROM BIOS serial
port interrupts so he could play Warcraft against his friends; editing
config.sys files so he could play Final Fantasy VII or FPS Football Pro '95.
He's now got a CS degree and is a web app developer -- and he's usually an OS
version or two behind me.

~~~
corroded
It would be difficult to hide porn from a parent like you. LOL

------
corroded
I remember the day I bought my mom and dad a PC. I only taught my mom how to
check her email and a few weeks later, she's already installed a dozen Yahoo!
and Popcap games in it.

A few more weeks later and as expected, the PC succumbed to a bunch of viruses
and I had to "fix" them. To cut the story short, I installed FIrefox, hid the
IE icon and told them to use it as it's "just the same, they only look
different". I then left and never had to fix any virus problem whatsoever.

Now, they're doing great with Firefox(I think my dad even uses Chrome now).

Lesson learned: 1\. Let them suffer from virus infections caused by old
browsers _cough IE6_ 2\. "Cure" said virus and introduce antibody - new
browsers 3\. ??? 4\. PROFIT!

------
algoshift
If you install Chrome on your parent's computer and make it the default
browser you are making a serious mistake:

All of their logins and passwords are now available in plain text with a few
button clicks. If they ever ask someone else for help or take the computer to
a store their entire lives can be up-ended in an instant.

I use Chrome almost exclusively. I can deal with this issue. My guess is that
99% of the public has no clue.

I don't understand why Google refuses to fix this.

------
x0ner
Funny seeing this just after I got done spending 2 hours waiting for Windows
to apply all the updates.

Windows, check. Adobe, check. Java, check. All browsers (with Chrome default),
check.

Success.

~~~
16s
Give it a week or so, they'll need patching again.

------
Tichy
It's also a great lesson in humility. Every developer should support some
noobs from time to time. It's surprising how difficult some computer tasks
really are.

------
pgbovine
good idea, but must be done tactfully, or else you run the risk of being
labeled as that geeky kid who always insists on disrupting the status quo.
remember, for a lot of people, web browsers are interchangeable, so if they're
happy with X and you switch them to Y, then they'll be strictly more mad.
however, if they're fed up with how X is too slow or buggy and you show them
Y, then they're more likely to be appreciative.

------
squidsoup
Or better yet, buy them an iPad.

------
billboebel
I did one better 3 yrs ago and replaced my mom's virus ridden Windows w/
Ubuntu. Best move ever, because it drastically reduced the amount of tech
support I do for her. Shit just works. Today I upgraded her to Oneiric Ocelot
(Ubuntu 11.10), doubled her RAM and moved her 10,000+ photos to an ext4
partition. Now she'll be good for another 3 years as a Linux mom.

------
arkitaip
This should be a non-issue but on Windows XP [1] silent application upgrades
often fail because they require admin privileges.

[1] Win XP still has a third of the OS market share
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_system...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems)

~~~
icebraining
Also, IE9 doesn't run on XP and no version of IE for XP supports SNI [1],
which is reason enough to switch it to other browser.

[1]: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication>

~~~
jiggy2011
I think this can also be an issue with firefox, or at least it used to be.

------
davidcuddeback
How'd they know I was going to be reading this from my mom's laptop? Actually,
I was pleasantly surprised today to find out that my mom is already using
Chrome. No browser upgrade needed.

------
mcarrano
I upgraded my parents browser but only after I upgraded them to Windows 7. Bye
bye XP and all of your issues you have given us over the years.

------
citricsquid
The idea is cute, but seems unlikely to happen. If someone's parents are the
sort to let their children upgrade their browser, they're also the sort that
probably had their computer set up by their children which means it's probably
already updated. If they're the sort that are in control of their own computer
usage they probably aren't comfortable with their children changing the way
their computer works.

~~~
andrewflnr
Most likely, they had their computer set up by the OEM. And even if their kid
set it up at one point, there's no reason to assume it stayed updated.

------
samuel1604
at least that's one advantage being an orphan, not having to do tech support!

------
SonicSoul
everything has been just toasty since i got them off IE.. 6 years ago..

~~~
zobzu
yeah, precisely newer IEs are ok. Chrome is ok. Firefox is ok. Opera is ok.

this is an issue that most have solved very long ago, and the rest? well they
don't read hacker news or ars anyway.

~~~
icebraining
_newer IEs are ok_

Not on XP, they're not.

~~~
jiggy2011
Well get them a copy of Windows 7 for thanksgiving then you cheapskate :)

------
suivix
I've had my parents running Google Chrome inside of Sandboxie for over half a
year. No issues so far.

