
How Adulthood Happens - chejazi
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/opinion/david-brooks-how-adulthood-happens.html
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ChuckMcM
If I read that correctly there is little support for the 'age' component of
adulthood and a lot of support for 'required to act independently without a
safety net'. It might explain why people who were 16 in the 19th century were
considered ready to kick out into the "real" world.

In my own experience I did a couple of internships in my high school summers
which required that I live away from home, plan all my own meals, budget my
expenses, manage my housing situation, and track everything required to
succeed in my internship. I had some really eye opening experiences (like
having my motorcycle be in the shop and catching the bus to work but getting
on the wrong direction and ending at the depot far from work.) That experience
helped me "grow up" in many ways, and it was one of the reasons when I had
kids my wife and I gave them responsibility as soon as we thought they could
take it, so from age 10 on for example they did all of their own laundry. At
12 they were called on to cook a meal for the family from time to time, Etc.
If nothing else that helped them be more functional when they got to college.

~~~
NoMoreNicksLeft
> required to act independently without a safety net'

Then no one is an adult any longer, especially those of a leftist political
bent. They speak of their political programs in those exact terms, "safety
nets".

~~~
gohrt
> any longer

and almost no one ever was. Independence from family is a very modern American
notion. For most of history and the world, family/clan interdependence was/is
a major component of culture. Modern left-leaning societies installed
government-run interdependence to replace the clan (and some rare far-left
governments displaced the family)

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freditup
What's fascinating, to me, is the difference between the environment college
provides and the environment post-college life provides. The contrast in the
societal structure most people experience at these two points of life is
fascinating. From a world of community (college) to a world of isolation
(working world). I think the return of well-off young people to the cities is
driven by a search for a society that feels like it has the community of
college. (That was a motivation for me at the least.)

~~~
qrendel
I found college to be an exceedingly isolating environment myself. During my
entire time there I don't think I made a single lasting friend, and the people
I did meet were mostly brief acquaintances who turned out to be completely
untrustworthy, negative influences (theft, lying, sexual assaults, alcoholism,
etc). The availability of new interactions seemed to make individuals easily
replaceable, as well as the transience of the experience meant there was no
reason to invest in a relationship when you'd both be parting ways soon. All
of which leads to the people around you becoming a disposable commodity.
Perhaps they were just different environments? I was at a large state school -
things might be different at smaller or more selective institutions.

~~~
Dwolb
I think it's a matter of perspective from both parties. Both people can choose
to try to build a long lasting friendship or not. It's a matter of both the
individuals and the environment.

I mean, if you were to meet someone as a freshman in high school, would you
were about the same thing? You have 4 years. So what about college was
different?

~~~
qrendel
I couldn't answer exactly, but one guess would be that there is more turnover
in relationships at very large universities. In high school you largely move
through the same classes with the same people in the same grade, versus
college where you initially take a bunch of gen ed classes with people whom
you may never even run into on campus again, and with more intermixing among a
larger population. Also that you're younger in high school, so the time spent
there is a greater fraction of your life up to that point, making the
experience seem longer overall. A year or two at high school age can seem like
an eternity, where as a year or two in your late teens or earlier twenties is
a smaller drop in the bucket. Hopefully not just my perception - many seem to
acknowledge that time seems to go by faster as you get older. Plus many people
go to college, at least the large state schools, with no real intention of
actually finishing. Fewer people have that attitude towards high school.

Both people can try to build a long lasting friendship, but if only one is
trying while the other is being opportunistic, it's less likely to go anywhere
(speaking generously).

~~~
mercer
The reason why for many people college felt like a strong community is
probably because they found or stumbled upon one of many such communities
_within_ their colleges. Things like:

\- sports/activity/etc. club with regular events \- student organization \-
dorm life \- very specific subculture

The basic formula is time + regular 'unstructured' interaction with a a
relatively small group of people. College usually provides the first, but the
second might take some work.

In high school, you get both by default, so there's a decent change you at
least made some friends, either from the large group you interact with, or
from the tiny group of other outcasts that you're part of.

I think many ills of our society would significantly lessen if we create
environments and lifestyles where 'time + leisure within small tribe' can
exist again. Cities can offer the latter pretty well, but time always seems to
be a bit of a problem.

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qmalxp
I'm pushing 30, have a well-paying job, and a long-term significant other, but
I never plan on "becoming an adult" if it means religious affiliation, griping
about the talking heads like my father, or giving up video games and
hangovers.

~~~
k__
Same here.

For me "being an adult" just means that I have to be responsible, nothing
more.

I keep my self healthy, educated and happy. Also pay my taxes.

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madaxe_again
I honestly think more folks need a much bigger fire up their ass.

Taking until 30 to start doing something productive with your life and to end
the party-party-party phase is, well, slow? Why spend your most productive
years in the wilderness?

I do much of what I do from compulsion - I never had the luxury of being able
to sit around and contemplate my future on someone else's dollar - I left
university heavily in debt, paying my brother's school fees, lumbered with a
mortgage on a great aunt's house, with two parents who had gone into hiding on
opposite corners of the globe, deep in denial over their divorce proceedings.
I left uni with nowhere to go, no money, lots of obligations, and about a week
to find myself income before my world imploded.

I found my first job three days after graduating - I went up to London, and
went and annoyed financial services companies by literally banging on their
doors and going 'interview me'. Eventually someone bit, I spent 18 months
there before jumping ship and starting my own thing. This isn't some dim
mythical past when jobs grew on trees, rather 2005, and most of my cohort
ended up moving home with the folks because they couldn't find jobs - because
they didn't try hard enough, because moving home with the folks _was an
option_.

When you remove your fallbacks, all you can do is climb and hope there's
somewhere you can take a rest further up.

When I look at my brother (seven years younger) and myself, there is one
defining difference between his upbringing and mine - there's always been
someone there to bail him out, to pick up the pieces, to solve his problems
for him. Far too often that someone has been me. He's leading his own path,
finding his own way, but he _is_ going to be 30 by the time he finds it.

Finally, part of finding the path is realising that there is no path but the
one you make, and that it is its own goal.

There's nothing at the end of it, enjoy the walk.

~~~
1stop
An alternate narrative for your story: Your hard work was not the defining
characteristic of your success. But it was in fact luck.

And your rant could amount to: I won the lottery, why the hell doesn't
everyone just do that! Look at my brother... he's never won the lottery, what
a chump.

~~~
kijin
That was my impression as well.

According to GP's narrative, he was "lucky" because his ass was on fire. After
all, he didn't do anything to deserve the situation he found himself in, did
he?

On the other hand, his brother was "unlucky" because his ass was NOT on fire.
(Having a competent older sibling tends to do that to a younger sibling's
ass.) GP wishes that more people were as lucky as he was.

Oh, and GP even had the luxury of being able to annoy financial services
companies. Many people would kill for the luxury of being able to annoy
McDonald's managers in the same way.

~~~
madaxe_again
Yes, the luxury afforded by a single train ticket and paying cash to stay in s
hostel, sweaty nights knowing that I had money for six days and beyond that,
black hole I didn't want to think about. I found a job on day six after maybe
150 companies. QA. Manual testing. Fabulous job for a physics graduate! Oh
wait, no, the pits, but work, and income, and oh my god I can have a roof over
my head and almost make ends meet. Now I just need to freelance and find a bar
job too.

"Luxury!" (Yorkshire accent)

If you think my situation sounds like it was remotely pleasurable, be grateful
you haven't been there. There are far easier and kinder ways to have ones
safety net removed than to have your family completely explode and dump their
obligations on you. Had to pack up and auction off the family home at 19.
Every penny went against lawyers or their debt. Shit ain't easy, I promise
you.

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bambax
> _86 percent agree with the statement, “I am confident that eventually I will
> get what I want out of life.”_

Could it be because they don't actually want much, or anything?

Wanting insn't that easy. You have to be inthe kind of place that let's you
see what's possible without letting you get it. Too far, and you don't know
what's out there. Too close, and you already have so much that no object of
desire is left for you to «want».

------
Pxtl
Adulthood is what happens when you realize that, if you don't do it, it's not
going to get done. Don't know how? Learn. Physically can't? Find a way. Nobody
is going to do it for you.

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chachi
This article smacks of "back in my day". Perhaps college students spend "just
over one hour per day" studying alone because education has realized the
benefit of group learning, interactive education and project-based classes. In
the age of Wikipedia and Google the need to memorize and study in silence, as
in the monastery, has decreased substantially.

David Brooks' longing for the day when students just shut up and listened to
their teachers is patronizing and ignorant.

~~~
girvo
Did you finish the article? It seems not.

~~~
chachi
Sure, I finished it. He went on to bemoan jobless college grads, look down on
"following your dreams", and tell us that letting our hopes die is normal.
We'll just get over it and quit kicking things up by the time we're 30.

~~~
madaxe_again
I think you took most of that meaning from an angry voice inside your head -
not from what he wrote.

Letting your hope die is "normal", but it doesn't mean that you should aim to
be normal.

I still want to be an astronaut and I'm 31 and working in totally the wrong
field, but damnit, I'll hold that hypothetical dream. Never say never.

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serve_yay
Sheesh, at least give me a heads-up before you link me to David Brooks.

------
heurist
The important point here is learning to think for yourself. I've been going
through that process over the past year and from my perspective as a 25 year
old male, the author is spot on.

~~~
peterwwillis
Learning to think for yourself is independent and critical thinking, which
isn't the same thing as adulthood. I know adults who don't do either, and non-
adults who do both. The author is mostly-spot-on that by 30, you become an
Adult, but this is still a meaningless concept. Being an adult just means
you've fucked up enough times to know better and have finally got the knack of
this whole "living" thing.

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ForHackernews
Well, that was a vacuous piece of fluff. I suppose David Brooks has gotten
past his youthful desire to produce meaningful work.

~~~
rhizome
Essential reading: "I am worried about David Brooks"

[http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/i-dont-think-david-
brooks-i...](http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/i-dont-think-david-brooks-is-
okay-you-guys-1702674607)

------
dmritard96
somewhat patronizing article was my reaction. "They are largely unattached to
religious institutions." As if to say, 'one day you will realize what you are
missing'. My bet is that people today, in the age bracket he is referring to
may never attach themselves to science fiction as fact.

'Yet here is the good news. By age 30, the vast majority are through it.' and
'After a youth dazzled by possibilities and the fear of missing out, they
discover that committing to the few things you love is a sort of liberation.'

I abhor the idea that by 30 I should have to commit the rest of (likely the
majority of life) to just a few things.

~~~
girvo
I'm 24, and I really did not read this article as patronising. In fact, I read
it as the author actually understanding my life experience thus far rather
well. You're not the only commenter that has read it that way, I wonder if I'm
too charitable or others are looking for it to be yet another "kids these
days" article, of which there are many.

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EC1
My families tradition is to kick the kids out at the legal age with nothing
but promise of a roof and food if they need it. Grandfather grew up in poverty
and is now quite rich, none of trickled to my Dad. The logic being if you have
a safe place to sleep and eat, you can do whatever you set your mind to. Dad
started his own business, and instead of giving him money, my Grandfather
guided him and introduced him to people. Same with my father now. I left home
at 16.

I haven't gotten a cent from my parents and it has taught me a lot at a very
young age. Meanwhile most of my friends are completely dependant and have
adopted a 'the man/system is out to get you' mentality because they didn't get
their dream jobs fresh out of school.

How do you teach people to hustle? Cut the life line?

~~~
readme
If you have the promise of a roof and food, how can you possibly consider that
being kicked out? By your logic my parents kicked me out when I was 16

~~~
EC1
You know what I meant. Don't be pedantic. They don't literally plant a foot in
me around my door until I'm physically out of the house. It's implied and
understood that when we're old enough, we leave the house.

