
Bitcoin drug deals could haunt people for years - HHend
https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-drug-deals-silk-road-blockchain/
======
ssharp
> You might already regret that decision, for any number of reasons. After
> all, the four bitcoins you spent on that bag of hallucinogenic mushrooms
> would now be worth about as much as an Alfa Romeo.

It's not like they just happened to have some bitcoins and realized they could
buy drugs with them. They only bought the bitcoins so they could buy drugs.

~~~
icebraining
Plus, the dollars the author had in their wallet could also have been used for
buying Bitcoins which would now be worth an Alfa Romeo, so everyone can regret
their purchasing decisions, not just people who already held Bitcoins.

~~~
WillReplyfFood
Why not circular causality - the losses made with buying drugs with bitcoins,
drove them to take drugs in the first place..

------
amelius
> ... the evidence of that drug deal may still be hanging around in plain view
> of law enforcement, even years after the Silk Road was torn off the dark
> web.

How about your delivery address being in the merchant's raided servers?

~~~
nukeop
You don't seriously think people order drugs to their own addresses, right?

~~~
jstanley
Where else? If I order drugs to somebody else's address, they'll get the drugs
and not me.

~~~
ddorian43
Send it to a friend of yours that doesn't do drugs but will give it to you.

Edit: reason I wrote that, is that I remember one time, some dude found weed
on the street, and since he didn't smoke he gave it to hit friend. So the same
here. (But it's a joke cause mail+drugs+address+police no bueno)

~~~
andruby
That's not a way to treat a friend. You would let the Fed's bust their house?

------
LyndsySimon
This isn't a "drug" problem, this is a "government" problem.

What happens if the US federal government goes authoritarian right-wing, and
you get raided because you donated some bitcoin to WikiLeaks in 2012?

What happens is they go authoritarian left-wing, and you get raided because
you donated to WikiLeaks in 2016?

Having permanently-visible transactions is a huge liability; we don't know
what the future holds.

------
philfrasty
I read in a different article that the creator of another darknet market ran
their entire operation on a WooCommerce store with a nice MySQL database...of
course carefully „preserving“ that precious customer data.

~~~
dmix
You're missing a big part of how these Bitcoin markets work. People would use
PGP encryption when sending their addresses through the web app to the
dealer/vendor, the vendors PGP public key.

So even if law enforcement got access to the database they wouldn't
necessarily have any customer addresses, except for the minority of people who
got lazy.

------
Invictus0
Did I misread the article or does they're entire hack consist solely of
scraping the internet for places you may have posted your public address? This
is the oldest trick in the book.

~~~
gmueckl
I think you need to read the story differently: even when using only such a
low bar, you can find lots of evidence. As the article mentions, there are
other known ways to find suspicious Bitcoin wallets and their owners on top of
that.

~~~
ineedasername
That's how I interpreted it: even using the simplest and easiest methods, they
were able to tie transactions to individuals.

------
empath75
I doubt prosecutors in the us at least are gonna care that you ordered shrooms
from the Silk Road ten years ago. Might come up if they want to get a security
clearance or run for office, though.

~~~
acdha
You never know how their orders may change, however. We’re seeing people
deported for minor crimes committed decades ago, before they were legal
adults, and most people would have said that wouldn’t happen until the last
year or two.

Another, in some ways more important, point is the reminder that all of the
people who spent years spamming forums about how bitcoin is secure & anonymous
are not good sources of advice or analysis and whatever they’re promoting now
should be treated very skeptically. You can _still_ find people recommending
that people in countries with oppressive governments should make blackmarket
transactions in a public ledger!

~~~
pc86
> _We 're seeing people deported for minor crimes committed decades ago,
> before they were legal adults_
    
    
        [citation needed]
    

Not that I don't believe you but I honestly haven't heard of this.

~~~
ceejayoz
The DACA "Dreamers" are all potentially in this category.

There's also this case: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2018/01/2...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2018/01/22/ice-detains-a-polish-doctor-and-green-card-holder-who-has-
lived-in-the-u-s-for-nearly-40-years/)

> According to his “notice to appear” from the Department of Homeland
> Security, Niec’s detention stems from two misdemeanor convictions from 26
> years ago. In January 1992, Niec was convicted of malicious destruction of
> property under $100. In April of that year, he was convicted of receiving
> and concealing stolen property over $100 and a financial transaction
> device... Both of the offenses took place when he was a teenager.

~~~
acdha
That was the most recent example I had in mind. Also things like
[https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/us/undocumented-husband-
depor...](https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/us/undocumented-husband-
deported/index.html) which are both heartless and pointless.

------
maxerickson
Skimming the paper it seems that many of the people they identified were not
exactly operational masterminds — they tweeted the addresses linked to their
illicit transactions.

------
irpapakons
related podcast episode: [https://gimletmedia.com/episode/115-bitcoin-
hunter/](https://gimletmedia.com/episode/115-bitcoin-hunter/)

------
Daviddd
There was an similar post on bitcoincommerce.nl its written in Dutch though.

------
nukeop
Ok, so just move to Monero. Or use a mixer. Mindblowing, I know.

~~~
Casseres
Mixers are a bad idea. First, you have to trust that there's no collusion with
any entities. Secondly, you have to hope that you don't get tainted coins in
return.

A more thorough explanation:

[https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-
bitcoin...](https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-
bitcoinmixers.php#bitcoin)

~~~
nukeop
I'm sorry but you've been misinformed. This article is also factually
incorrect in many regards. There are no "tainted" coins. For example this
excerpt from your article is completely false:

"Not all Bitcoins are equal and have the same value. Some Bitcoins have been
blacklisted and blocked by several entities, making those coins less valuable
than the rest. If you receive Bitcoins that were used in the past for illegal
purposes, then your Bitcoins could be blacklisted even though you had nothing
to do with the illegal activity."

Bitcoins are interchangeable and indistinguishable; exactly alike. They are
not physical objects and carry no identifying marks. Their only property is
their amount.

~~~
Casseres
> They are not physical objects and carry no identifying marks. Their only
> property is their amount.

True. It's not the "bitcoin" itself that's being tracked and tainted, it's the
transactions between addresses that are being linked.

An amount of Bitcoin is just the balance of an address. However a property of
Bitcoin is that transactions contain the plaintext address where an amount of
Bitcoin was deducted and the plaintext address where the corresponding amount
of Bitcoin was credited.

Thus you can track an amount of Bitcoin as it was held by different addresses.

While it's intangible, it is quantifiable and traceable.

