
Japan team maps trove of rare earth elements - ph0rque
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/11/national/japan-team-maps-semi-infinite-trove-rare-earth-elements
======
mchannon
Not all rare earths are created equal, and the more common ones are so
commonplace and cheap that it'd be ludicrous to mine them undersea (even
undersea gold mining has yet to have an impact on the world market for gold).

Further, it's an open secret in the mining industry that assays and estimates
of deposits are frequently false, often by design. If you thought there was a
lot of stupid money in ICO's and California startups, take a look at early
stage mining concerns.

China's dominant position in rare earth mining is probably better described as
a "race to the bottom" rather than a monopoly position. Mountain Pass (now
Chinese-owned, by the way) isn't going anywhere, and it, or a comparably rich
deposit on land somewhere else, will get started up as soon as it makes
economic sense.

Speaking of somewhere else, if you've got money to sink into "heavy" REE
mining concerns (with proven and verifiable reserves in the US) drop me a
line.

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noetic_techy
They aren't rare, they are just really expensive to mine and process in the
western world. The chemicals involved are nasty and radioactive waste is one
of the byproducts. China has lax enough environmental laws and is willing to
absorb the blow. Wonder if enough R&D could solve the processing problems.

~~~
SquirrelOnFire
My understanding is that the main radioactive waste from rare earth mining is
Thorium - a pretty easy to handle material (the US just buries it in
landfills, which is enough to contain it) with the potential to be a valuable
resource in itself once LFTRs get off the ground again, which China and India
are working pretty hard on.

~~~
mchannon
The main radioactive waste from rare earth mining is indeed Thorium. It is not
a pretty easy to handle material. Check out
[https://projects.newyorker.com/story/radioactive-
nyc/](https://projects.newyorker.com/story/radioactive-nyc/) to learn how
Thorium from rare earth refining a century ago made NYC into a radioactive
waste site.

Thorium is not responsibly managed in landfills.

LFTR's have never "gotten off the ground". Even if they achieved some
extraordinary combination of breakthroughs over the next 10 years, we wouldn't
come close to using all the available Thorium that exists near the REE we
have. As a fertile (but not fissile) element, Thorium demand will be
inextricably linked to Uranium supply, even for LFTR.

------
lainga
Does this mean a bijection between the natural numbers and the rare-earth
elements? :)

But really, is this one of the reasons the Senkaku/Diaoyu fight is so heated?
Forget national pride or fishing rights, China doesn't want to see its rare-
earth monopoly undermined by deposits in Japanese waters (hypothetically).

EDIT: Never mind, Minamitori is near Wake Island in the mid-Pacific.

~~~
lisper
Why "never mind"? Wake Island is disputed territory (per Wikipedia "The island
is an unorganized, unincorporated territory of the United States that is also
claimed by the Republic of the Marshall Islands"). This could get interesting
if China suddenly makes friends with the RMI.

~~~
lainga
That is an interesting point, but I think the PLAN can bring force to the East
China Sea disputes much easier than something between Guam and Wake. I don't
think the US would allow them to even build up forces in the Marshalls without
hostilities.

~~~
lisper
They wouldn't do it by building up forces, they would do it by building an
airport.

[https://nextcity.org/features/view/the-worlds-emptiest-
airpo...](https://nextcity.org/features/view/the-worlds-emptiest-airport-is-a-
red-flag)

~~~
lainga
I can see where you are going, but there is a big difference between building
dual-use infrastructure and actually moving forces there. If the Liaoning and
its screens decide to weigh anchor and steam halfway toward Hawaii, the entire
world and the USN will probably wake up and say "oh shit, what are you doing?"

~~~
SaintGhurka
I think what the parent was pointing out was the infrastructure China built in
Sri Lanka eventually led to SL deeding over some territory to China to cover
the debt.

I guess the implication is that they'll get Marshall Islands indebted to them,
force them to sign over their claim to Wake Island to settle the debt and then
China would somehow militarily press that claim.

~~~
lisper
Or something like that. The Chinese are currently playing a much longer game
than any other nation on earth.

------
JoeAltmaier
Sounds like political noise. Mining is always, _always_ about how efficiently
(read: cheaply) the desired thing can be separated from the chaff. That
determines entirely whether its a doable thing. And they make only handwavy
claims about that.

------
comfrey
My new favorite word combo

“Semi-infinite”

~~~
ph0rque
ℵ_-0.5 :)

------
mnemotronic
Flashback to fabled seafloor manganese nodules
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_nodule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_nodule)]
and the Hughes Glomar Explorer
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian)]

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TheMagicHorsey
There are semi-infinite reserves in a LOT of other, easier to reach places
too. Mining toxic chemicals from the ocean is lame when there are better
alternatives. Its better for humanity if we pollute some isolated corner of
the Outback or Manitoba rather than the open ocean.

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tempodox
So, ∞/2 is a thing?

~~~
twic
Close:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-
infinite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-infinite)

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fapjacks
"Semi-infinite" doesn't sound any less silly than "nearly impossible".
Something which surely everyone in this thread has used before.

------
greptomania
...so, finite then?

~~~
bakhy
Yes and no.

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ryanx435
How do I invest in the companies that are doing this, as an American?

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berg01
Now have the same team map other parts of the world! I bet these elements are
not as rare as they are thought to be.

I grew up like ten minutes from where nine natural elements where first
identified:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ytterby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ytterby)

Pretty sure that place isn't globally unique, but the people identifying the
elements were.

