

Heathrow fire on Boeing Dreamliner 'started in battery component' - timw6n
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/18/heathrow-fire-boeing-dreamliner-battery

======
timw6n
The AAIB (the UK equivalent of the NTSB) special bulletin referred to in the
article is here[1] with a few more technical details.

Looks like it's just unlucky that this happened with a 787, given that the ELT
is a standalone component apparently fitted to around 6000 planes of various
types.

[1]
[http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/S5-2013%20ET-...](http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/S5-2013%20ET-
AOP.pdf)

------
jlgreco
_" the component, an emergency locator transmitter powered by lithium-
manganese dioxide batteries"_

So not the same batteries as the last time apparently. I wonder if they made
the same "fireproof box enclosure" change to these batteries as they did the
others. If these batteries were similarly isolated and still caused a fire
that bad, that doesn't say very good things about the continued state of
battery safety on those planes.

~~~
ubernostrum
This transmitter whose battery is implicated is a stock, off-the-shelf
component used in multiple models of aircraft. It is not unique to the 787,
was not developed for the 787, and it seems to be an unfortunate coincidence
that the failure of one of those units occurred in a 787, when allegedly
something like 6000 of these transmitter units have been in service for nearly
a decade. Honeywell (which makes the transmitter) may be in for trouble, but
apparently Boeing's stock price has rebounded a bit since people in the market
actually, you know, read the available information and realized this isn't a
"Boeing 787 battery problem".

Of course, I'm sure that any moment Elon Musk (PBUH) will be along to explain
why the entire aviation industry was wrong to use these transmitters.

~~~
CamperBob2
_Of course, I 'm sure that any moment Elon Musk (PBUH) will be along to
explain why the entire aviation industry was wrong to use these transmitters._

Was he wrong in his assessment of the original 787 battery overheating issue?

You realize that they still have _no earthly idea_ what happened to the
batteries involved in the earlier incidents, correct? The "fix," such as it
is, simply involves the implementation of more robust containment measures.

~~~
ubernostrum
_Was he wrong in his assessment of the original 787 battery overheating
issue?_

Everything Elon (PBUH) declares is truth beyond question. Allow me to state
that up-front so as to appease his followers.

 _You realize that they still have no earthly idea what happened to the
batteries involved in the earlier incidents, correct?_

And you realize you're replying to a comment which wasn't about the earlier
incidents except insofar as it pointed out that this incident seems to be
unrelated and really appears to just be an off-the-shelf component failing in
a way that it could have failed on any of the other aircraft types it's
deployed in?

My reference to Elon Musk (PBUH) was mostly because I'm already seeing in this
thread the same sort of frankly religious worship of Elon (PBUH) we saw during
the incidents which were unique to the 787, and I make a point of hammering on
that whenever possible, since although Elon (PBUH) is a smart guy who does
cool stuff, he's not quite at the divine-omniscience level seemingly
attributed to him any time the 787 gets mentioned on HN.

~~~
MortenK
What's PBUH?

~~~
taejo
"Peace Be Upon Him" \-- usually used for the Prophet Mohammed.

------
RockyMcNuts
A separate 787 out of Boston has been turned around, possible fuel pump issue
-

[http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/07/18/ja...](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/07/18/japan-
airlines-dreamliner-returning-boston/YfoA2lZgM1q78MNLhNRs3N/story.html)

When it rains it pours.

~~~
jordanb
That kind of diversion is very common for a new type entering service. The
crew doesn't have a lot of time in the type, they know MX doesn't have a ton
of time working on the type, and so their default when anything seems amiss is
to get the plane on the ground and have it looked at.

The diversion rate right now for the 787 is enormous, but nearly all the
diversions are "abundance of caution" calls by the crew.

~~~
RockyMcNuts
gonna cost a lot of money and inconvenience a lot of passengers. if a non-
emergency, wouldn't they loop in dispatch and maybe a Boeing engineer before
turning it around? makes you think, better to wait til they work out kinks
before taking one.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Can't work out all the bugs without running the thing you built.

~~~
RockyMcNuts
yeah, I hear you. it's just, I don't know that they turn the plane around just
because the 'check engine' light came on... and whether it's an abundance of
caution or not, for myself, sounds like a situation I'd rather avoid as a
passenger.

------
jrockway
Years late and regularly bursts into flames. It sounds like Boeing ran the 787
program like it was a software project.

~~~
_djo_
To be fair to Boeing, this Honeywell ELT has nothing to do with them and is on
thousands of planes. It seems it may just have been an unlucky coincidence
that the first fire was on a 787.

~~~
ams6110
On top of that, there are probably several hundred consumer devices with
Lithium ion batteries on board the average flight, none of which are avionics
grade, and more than a few probably stowed out of sight in the overhead
lockers. It's surprising there haven't been more fires; or it's evidence that
these spontaneous battery fires really are quite rare.

------
revelation
My only fear with this recurring disaster is that their sheer incompetence
will ruin the public perception of new battery technology. That could spell
doom for companies like Tesla, wh o have been designing for safety first,
instead of outsourcing critical components to the lowest bidder.

~~~
LandoCalrissian
I think Musk got out ahead of this one actually.

He called them out after the first incident happend:
[http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-
intelligence/2013/02/26/elon-...](http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-
intelligence/2013/02/26/elon-musks-solution-to-boeings-battery-problem/)

Boeing probably should have licensed Tesla tech after the first incident.

~~~
notahacker
_As PR moves go_ "calling them out" was a good one.

But even if Boeing had achieved the extremely unlikelihood of being able to
get Tesla car batteries modified, fitted to their aircraft and approved by the
relevant licensing bodies, it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to
the totally unrelated Honeywell bit of kit suspected of catching fire in the
Ethiopian 787

~~~
tankenmate
I don't think Elon was suggesting Tesla batteries so much as the batteries
similar to the ones used on the Falcon 9.

