
Only 20% of people who can use Apple Pay have done so - lnguyen
http://time.com/money/4139330/apple-pay-unused/
======
mikeyouse
That's a weird way to phrase what's going on..

    
    
        Of the 20% who had [used Apple Pay], most (56%)
        only used it about once a week.
    

So something like 11% of iPhone 6/6s owners use Apple Pay every week? There's
something like 30 million phones in that category in the US, so maybe 3
million people use Apple Pay every week. That's "hardly anyone"?

As more and more phones gain capability with the upgrade cycle and as more
vendors install contactless terminals, Apple Pay (and Samsung / Android Pay)
are going to grow like crazy. Is there a company on earth who would be
disappointed with 3 million weekly users, especially when they get a cut of
each transaction?

~~~
Albright
This. It's sort of like the "The Apple Watch is a failure!" articles when the
Apple Watch has outsold every other smartwatch combined.

Sometimes it kind of feels like the dinosaur press is really trying its
damnedest to bring back the "beleaguered" days.

~~~
boxidea
One of my favorite articles like this, from 2 years ago:

> This morning Apple (NASDAQ: AAPL) announced a record-breaking weekend for
> sales of its new iPhone 5S and 5C. In the first 72 hours more than 9 million
> phones were sold in 11 countries around the world.

> To me though, all this over-the-top fanfare and even the record-breaking
> first weekend of sales could actually be cause for concern.

> Let's face it this new iPhone is just an upgrade, a refresh, dare I say a
> sequel.

Yes. that's exactly what it is. And it sells like crazy.

[http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/09/why-record-
ipho...](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/09/why-record-iphone-sales-
might-be-rotten-for-apple-aapl/)

------
scblock
The trouble is retailers. I'd use it everywhere if people would support
contactless payments. It's how I pay at Sprouts every time.

Heck, Kroger has new terminals that should support contactless payments AND
chip based payments, but neither work. Same with my liquor store. Same with
IKEA. At IKEA the terminal has a card slot but also has a note taped to it
saying "please swipe". At the other two the slot simply does nothing.

But it's more fun to blame Apple and "apathy" than how broken payments are in
the US.

~~~
jinushaun
Countless times at Whole Foods and Home Depot where I walk up to the terminal
with my phone and the cashier says, "Sorry, it doesn't work". These are flag
ship Apple Pay retailers.

~~~
zippergz
I think this is often just ignorant employees (not their fault; they probably
haven't been properly trained). I've run into the "that doesn't work" thing at
Whole Foods a couple of times, and both times it worked perfectly when I
insisted on trying it. The employee was amazed, and said they'd never seen it
work before.

I have run into problems at Subway, which is supposedly an official Apple Pay
merchant. I can almost never get it to work there (and often they keep the
terminal behind the register, so you have to ask for it and convince the
employee to give it to you if you even want to try).

------
annon
I think there's still too much social friction. It's really convenient and
fast most of the time, but there are several road blocks that I've run in to
that made me wish I just swiped my card. Most of these will go away with time.

1\. Their hardware doesn't support RFID, or it has a RFID logo but is
disabled.

2\. The store owner doesn't know how it works, or is concerned and thinks it
didn't work because they're unfamiliar with it.

3\. The store owner or people in line think its cool, haven't seen it before,
and want a demo.

4\. The store owner or people in line act like I'm a techno-douche and don't
understand why I didn't just swipe a card like a normal person because I'm
holding everybody up trying to make it work with their busted RFID reader.

When none of those things happen, it's a great experience, especially on the
watch.

~~~
erikcw
RE #4 -- I always just start the Apple Pay transaction while the cashier is
still scanning my items. In fact I do the same when swiping a card. Almost all
payment terminals support collecting your payment information before the clerk
has finished tallying up your transaction. Shaves a couple of seconds off the
total experience regardless of whether I'm using a card or RFID....

------
rm_-rf_slash
I love the convenience of Apple Pay, but most vendors don't have it. Pretty
much the only place that I've used it regularly is Wegmans, but if I'm buying
beer I have to show my ID and at that point I may as well pay with my card.

I like Apple Pay, I really do, but there's hardly enough vendor adoption. Hard
to see where the blame lies, aside from the obvious chicken-and-egg problem.

~~~
jpmattia
> _but most vendors don 't have it._

Is there any financial incentive for them to do the work on installing and
maintaining yet another payment method?

~~~
mikeyouse
The big incentive came in October of this year, the liability for fraudulent
payments at the terminal switched from the card issuer to the merchants
accepting payments. This is in coordination with the roll-out of Chip cards in
the US. So basically, all merchants are going to have to upgrade their
terminals soon and it really makes no difference to their back end whether you
pay via credit card or Apple Pay.

[http://www.emv-connection.com/understanding-the-2015-u-s-
fra...](http://www.emv-connection.com/understanding-the-2015-u-s-fraud-
liability-shifts/)

------
dogma1138
I actually wonder if there will be a different ratio in EU countries which are
far more accustomed to both contactless chip & pin payments and where cash
transactions are much less common e.g. almost everyone pays even for small
things like coffee using a card rather than cash.

Sure when you calculate the amount of money transferred cards are the king
even in the US but in overall number of transactions and especially in low
value (under 50$) the picture changes and the lower you go the more likely you
will pay with Cash. In Europe the picture is quite different as debit, credit,
and local chip & pin wallets remain dominant both in high and low value
transactions.

On the anecdotal side I went through my bank statements online and I withdrew
cash only 6 times this year in the UK for a total sum of 270 GBP which is
nothing. I rarely use cash the only time I use cash is if i go to a festival
or a street market or something similar.

------
mwfunk
The headline is "Hardly Anyone Is Using Apple Pay", but the first sentence of
the actual article is "Only 20% of people who can use Apple Pay have done so."
That sounds...pretty freaking good? I think of Apple Pay as being mildly
successful given how hard it's been for competing systems to get any traction
over the last 5 years or so, but I would have guessed that that number was
more like 10%.

I also consider Android Pay to be mildly successful, but AFAIK it has about
the same level (or less?) of popularity and support. It's just fundamentally
not the kind of service where the criteria for success is defined by adoption
by a plurality of compatible device owners.

All of these different payment systems are just struggling to gain traction-
over the next couple of years, I would consider "success" for any of them to
just be getting enough growth and support to stay alive. Once the market has
decided that one or more of these systems gets to stick around long-term, then
we can start being disappointed that only a few tens of millions of people are
using them.

------
digital43
I've only had luck with Apple Pay in Trader Joe's and Panera so far. Discover
is doing 10% cash back for payments made in Apple Pay until the end of the
year so I've been trying hard to find any stores that accepts it, but couldn't
find that many places. If it were accepted by more retailers (e.g. CVS, Stars
Market), I can see it being more widely used.

By the way, I remember Target, CVS, and some other retailers were working on
their own payment system using QR code. I wonder what happened to it.

~~~
crusso
Upvoted for the headsup on the Discover card alone. Every time I've tried to
add my Discover card to my Apple wallet, I've been told that Discover does not
yet support it.

I would use Apple Pay 100% of the time if it were available. In particular, I
long for the day when you can pay with Apple Pay at restaurants so you don't
have to hand off your credit card to someone who disappears with it and comes
back later.

This Christmas I promised to help set some relatives up with Apple Pay and
show them how to use it.

------
Boxbot
Another issue is the lack of participating banks. All of my credit cards work
with Apple Pay (and I use it multiple times a week) but all of my parents'
cards and a bunch of my friends' cards are simply not supported.

I like Apple Pay, but with EMV rolling out in the US and the CurrentC
consortium trying to kill credit card use in the retail space entirely I don't
know whether it's ever going to be able to reach wide-spread adoption.

~~~
vitd
CurrentC will never take off. It requires a debit card and a bunch of personal
information and puts all of the burden of dealing with fraud on the customer.
Users aren't going to be signing up for it in any sort of numbers like they
will (and have) with ApplePay, I'd bet. If I go into a store and they either
don't take credit or charge extra for credit, I literally stop going there.

~~~
Boxbot
I agree that CurrentC will (hopefully) never take off but it has already had a
chilling effect on Apple Pay adoption. There are many stores that used to
allow NFC tap-to-pay but actually disabled that functionally entirely to
prevent people from using Apple Pay specifically.

e.g. pre Apple Pay I used to be able to use tap-to-pay with an actual credit
card at CVS but they've disabled that functionality on all their payment
terminals to block Apple Pay. Now I can just go to Walgreens but that doesn't
change the fact companies are actively taking steps to retard the growth of
Apple Pay.

------
Bud
I use Apple Pay regularly at Trader Joe's, Peet's Coffee, Whole Foods,
Walgreens, and various other places. Success rate is 100% at most of those
stores. For Walgreens, implementation is still rather spotty; works great at
some stores, others have had broken readers or have said that their new
readers were coming soon, but not there yet.

It's especially handy for occasions when I'd rather not bring my wallet, such
as workouts.

------
Sindrome
I have tried to use Apple Pay on my iWatch about 12 times at retailers that
have stickers which say "Apple Pay Accepted Here". It has worked 2 times. Just
didn't work at all 7 times. 3 times it actually broke the POS system on the
register and they had to move me to another register. I just can't be bothered
to use it anymore. I just look like an idiot trying.

~~~
thegayngler
I've never not had Apple Pay on my Apple Watch work. I use it like everyday on
the way to work.

------
roflchoppa
I like paying with it, from how the protocol was designed i feel like its less
likely to have my credit card info leaked. I find that the biggest issue when
paying is that the POS system is on its own mission (fucking hate that weight
system (plz return your item to the bagging area)). So i might have to try to
complete the payment multiple times before it submits.....

------
Aleman360
I don't see any advantage to it vs. a card with a chip. The card has no
battery, is more durable, and can be replaced for free.

~~~
kingnight
I think the argument is convenience.

Battery/Durability seem like pretty empty arguments when comparing something
that exists in software to something physical since if that was the case most
things done on computer would lose.

Also, it's not like you have to replace your phone when you need to replace
your credit card #.

Chip cards seem quite a bit more inconvenient than non-chipped cards at least
with the chip readers they've started using in the US. Non-chip is a quick
swipe interaction vs the chip card has to stay in the length of the
transaction processing which for some reason even the non wireless readers
take up to a minute to complete.

------
heavymark
More accurately, hardly anyone is offering it consistently.

I would love to use Apple Pay everywhere but it's simply not really available.
For instance everytime I go to get gas I'd love to but no gas stations appear
to support it. I go to Starbucks several times a week and use their app to pay
but no option to use native apple pay (only as a payment source). Subway is
suppose to offer it but the ones near me don't. A few stores that are suppose
to, I've tried but the register person didn't click the right button and ended
up crashing the system and had to use a card. Some stores say they support NFC
but specifically block Apple Pay for competitive reasons.

Whole Foods is pretty much the only place I know I can use it and have it
work. So I think it comes down to waiting for major players to start offering
it like gas stations and starbucks so that people will be able to use it
consistently in their daily lives.

------
marc22
I tend to use it when possible. Aside from cashiers at Whole Foods, I have
gotten a surprised reaction of "I didn't know you could do that!" from most of
the places that I've used it.

Only Game Stop asked for ID to go along with the Apple Pay. I tend to think
that an additional id is not really necessary.

~~~
Bud
Not only is it unnecessary, but you should object. The entire point of Apple
Pay is that it is both very secure and completely anonymous. The retailer
doesn't need to know your identity and track your purchases. No information
about you is passed to the retailer during an Apple Pay transaction: not your
name, not your account number, not the type of card you are using. Nothing.
Which is how it should be.

The retailer is assured that you are the valid account holder by the fact that
Apple Pay can't work without a validated iPhone present, which the user has
unlocked with either a security code or a fingerprint. Stolen iPhones are
accounted for by the fact that such phones can be easily and instantly
disabled or bricked by the user.

------
vitd
Until last week, I had an iPhone 5S and an Apple Watch, which is also a
combination that works for paying with Apple Pay. I tried several places that
claimed to support it, and it didn't appear to work. It took me several months
to realize that I had to have the "Wallet" app open on the watch and had to
double-click the side button to put the watch in the mode where it's ready to
pay. Then you have to get it close to the terminal to work. I bet half the
problem is that users don't know the interface for making a payment. My memory
of the keynote where this was introduced was that you just held the watch up
to the terminal and it paid. That's not the reality of how it works. And
cashiers generally don't know how it works, so they can't help you.

------
maherbeg
I'm having the similar troubles with terminals that only allow chip and
signature or terminals that have a chip slot but only allow swiping.

I've found that if you read carefully it will tell you whether to "insert" or
"swipe" your card...old habits die hard.

This is what happens, I try Apple Pay, a lot of times it doesn't work. Pull my
card out and insert it. Also doesn't work. Finally I swipe the damn thing and
ta-da back to normal.

I almost wish Apple would use geofencing to let us know if the retailer
supports Apple Pay or not so I can quickly abort the mission ahead of time.

------
therealidiot
I saw someone awkwardly trying to use their Apple watch to pay for something
the other day. It was kind of funny.

I wonder what the numbers would be like in the UK, where contactless payment
is already fairly widespread...

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
I'm not in London, but also not in a tiny village. In this large town I've
literally seen exactly one person wearing a Watch in the last year.

My local big supermarket doesn't have contactless, so doesn't support
ApplePay.

In other stores, I've never seen it being used.

I suspect there's been some take-up in London - but Apple really haven't
killed this one, especially considering that iPhones are _everywhere._

~~~
dogma1138
Almost every store I've been too has Apple Pay and contactless support the
only places I haven't seen contactless being supported so far are small mom
and pap's store/kiosks which I would be weary of using a card in in the first
place (seen enough worldpay PED terminals held together with tape for a life
time).

Barclays is still refusing to support Apple Pay since it's trying to kick of
it's own payment service but other than that everyone supports it even Tesco.

I haven't seen anyone paying with the apple watch it would be rather awkward
based on how most card readers are positions but it's very easy and quick to
pay with the phone.

~~~
nsxwolf
I wonder why Apple hasn't ditched Barclays as their customer financing
provider.

------
thegayngler
It's definitely my preferred method of payment. Retailers who don't use NFC
related tech like Apple/Google Pay are the last ones to get my dollars.

A friend of mine and I were just talking about Apple/Google Pay this morning
and she said it was a lifesaver when she forgot her wallet. I think for most
people this is how they will end up using their Apple/Google Pay at first.
Then they will claim it's the most amazing thing ever as my friend told me
this morning when she went shopping and forgot her wallet.

------
egypturnash
In my current bag, my phone is a lot easier to access than my wallet. So I use
Apple Pay wherever I can.

I can't really use it many places. So far it's mostly Trader Joe's and
Walgreens. Local coffee shops, farmer's market, I gotta take out the cards.
But this will change; a few years ago I had to bring cash to the farmer's
market and now everyone there can swipe a card with their smartphone.

It'll be interesting to see what the small-vendor uptake of Square's NFC
reader is when it comes out...

------
RockyMcNuts
interesting, I use it at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods, quicker than card.

When it works, it works. I can't imagine it won't be standard to pay by phone,
with integrated loyalty program.

Meanwhile the chip cards are perceived to be slower than magnetic strip. How
is that even possible?

[http://www.businessinsider.com/us-shoppers-are-so-annoyed-
wi...](http://www.businessinsider.com/us-shoppers-are-so-annoyed-with-the-new-
credit-cards-theyre-avoiding-stores-that-use-them-2015-12)

and never mind the insanity of MCX and CurrentC [http://gizmodo.com/how-
corporate-greed-is-trying-to-kill-app...](http://gizmodo.com/how-corporate-
greed-is-trying-to-kill-apple-pay-1651233601)

It's only been about a year and I have to think Apple is pretty well
positioned to get people using phones, have a feature that works better than
Android, and eventually get a nice vig.

If the merchants and banks and credit card companies don't get their heads out
of their butts, Apple could even end up being a tail that wags the dog and
running the table on payments.

------
davidf18
I've used it at many places in NYC: Walgreens, Duane Reade, Whole Foods,
McDonalds, a local grocer, vending machines, Apple Store, Best Buy.

An important point is that Apple uses a token and not your CC for paying and
thus you protect your CC from hacks. When I tell people this advantage (Do you
remember Target, Lowes hacks?) they are very interested.

You can also conveniently look up your last few transactions on the phone.

------
gherkin0
Honestly, the user experience of paying by credit card is just getting too
complicated. Which of the 3 contact-less payment vendors can you use? Do you
hand your card to the cashier or not? Do you swipe it or insert it (who knows,
the cashier has to tell you)?

I miss the days when you just handed your payment (cash, card, check) to a
trained cashier, and they just handled the rest.

------
xasos
It's a bit surprising since Apple Pay has, by far, one of the better UXs for a
wallet application. Adding cards is really easy and paying with Touch ID is
really simple and intuitive.

I imagined that once Apple finally came out with a mobile payments solution,
Mainstream America would pounce on it, but it hasn't seemed to happen yet (or
maybe ever).

~~~
jon-wood
For wallet apps it may well be best, but the UX doesn't beat my actual wallet,
which contains several contactless cards.

~~~
mcphage
> but the UX doesn't beat my actual wallet

Why not? You don't need to pull out your wallet, find the right card. You just
put your phone (which I'm already holding when I'm waiting in line, but maybe
that's me).

------
massysett
Apple Pay does not solve a problem for me when shopping at a cash register.
Maybe there would be slight benefit if I had a Apple Watch, which I don't.

It would be great if I could use it more online though. I think I used it once
and I didn't have to input my name and address. Pecking this out on an iPhone
is a pain.

~~~
dogma1138
What problem is that? It's quicker than C&P it's more secure than a swipe, you
can have all your cards on a single device and select the one which you want
to use for each transaction (e.g. to get offers / discounts).

The watch actually is quite more awkward than a phone to use, but Apple pay is
definitely convenient, and if you forget your wallet allot it's quite a god
send if it's widespread where you live (like it is atm in London).

I can pay for all of my daily expenses with Apple pay atm, this includes
transfer (TFL), food and coffee, cloths, electronics, groceries everything.

Is it superior to contactless credit cards? The only big clear difference is
that it's not capped in the amount (although some retailers might implement
their own cap on contactless) whilst most credit cards limit the amount to
anywhere between 10(HSBC debit) to 50GBP(Amex).

~~~
massysett
Issuers pay for fraud so I don't care about security. I don't need to have
access to multiple cards. The phone is worth hundreds of dollars and if I have
to futz with it at checkout there's a risk I will drop it. That risk is not
worth it when I can pull a plastic card out of my pocket.

If I had the watch at least I wouldn't have to fish the phone or a card out of
my pocket.

------
guelo
It's a dumb idea. Pulling out a card and swiping is quick and easy. And youre
not fumbling with a $900 computer while people wait behind you, for no
benefit. They'd have to pay 2-3% cash back for people to switch. But that's
the money the banks and phone companies want for themselves.

------
FussyZeus
I sure as hell don't, assuming the retailer accepts at all (most up here
don't), the cashier almost never knows how to make it work and looks at me
like I'm trying to pull a scam when I pull my phone out instead of my wallet.

Joys of living in the backwoods.

------
jedberg
I live in Cupertino and I've barely seen anywhere that even accepts it, and I
can only assume that we have possibly the highest penetration of independent
retailers anywhere on the planet.

In fact, the only place I see it used consistently is the Apple corporate
cafe.

------
nipponese
Here in San Francisco, I only see it my local independent grocery store,
Walgreens, and Whole Foods (where I don't regularly shop). Not Lowes, Safeway,
Bevmo, not any restaurant or liquor store, of course.

------
bovermyer
I don't use Apple Pay for one very simple reason: it's an automatic habit to
reach for a card.

I am not actively choosing NOT to use it. I just have no compelling reason to
use it despite my card habit.

~~~
jonahx
This is the crucial impediment faced by any new process seeking to replace an
entrenched one. Being better is not enough, unless the improvement is massive.
The force of habit is just so strong.

~~~
bovermyer
Interestingly, I got downvoted for my comment. Not sure why, since it's an
observation that I'm sure more than one person has. Per your comment, it would
seem to be a part of human psychology.

------
RyJones
only place I've had a seamless experience is a Coke machine in the Best
Western in Moscow, Idaho. Everywhere else has sucked or not worked.

------
frandroid
There are lots of contactless POS in Canada, and Apple Pay just got here. But
it's still just Amex. Not exactly mainstream...

------
lucian1900
I quite like it.

It may count as separate, but it's also really useful for paying on the phone
itself. It's how I always pay on Just Eat.

------
feld
It's not well advertised, but I use it everywhere that accepts it when I'm not
using cash.

------
swagv
More a solution in search of a problem

