
"Principles of Adult Behavior" by JP Barlow - sinak
https://gist.github.com/hernamesbarbara/c647b18411157205edffcb94db0bcea8
======
mygo
I was expecting a list of explanations. Something that will explain to me the
fundamental principles that lead adults to behave the way they do in the real
world. Like why they have to look so serious when you make eye contact in a
coffee shop... etc.

Instead I was delivered a list of idealistic commandments prescribing behavior
that does not really occur that often out in the field. Which is ironically
something an adult would do.

~~~
hi-im-mi-ih
Well, I could argue that people are waiting to tell you the principles of
their behavior, but you've yet to ask. If people look serious in a coffee
shop, it's acceptable to ask them why they look serious. Perhaps the
commandments could guide you through the process of extracting and
understanding a person's motivations in their own words.

The commandments are meant to help you improve your own behavior. As you
improve your own behavior, people will confide more information about
themselves in you, and your understanding of what makes people tick will grow.
You'll have more intuition about how someone will react to a given scenario.
Use the principles to improve your own attitude and behavior so that others
pass information to you more easily.

The implementation of this comes down to your clear communication (through
both word and body language) that you embody the 25 commandments to everyone
you meet. They will receive such a person with great pleasure. As you
communicate with them, they'll freely dispense their motivations and dreams to
you for study.

~~~
quesera
> If people look serious in a coffee shop, it's acceptable to ask them why
> they look serious.

It is never acceptable to ask a stranger in a coffee shop why they look
serious.

~~~
Thimothy
>>"they'll freely dispense their motivations and dreams to you for study"

This must be satire or sarcasm, but the parent got me at the beginning.

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r3n
I try to find out why he made this list, and here is what I found on the
google.

[https://www.mail-
archive.com/silklist@lists.hserus.net/msg08...](https://www.mail-
archive.com/silklist@lists.hserus.net/msg08034.html)

> ... In any event, it occurred to me that, past 30, I could no longer defend
> my peccadillos on basis of youth. I would have to acquire some minimal sense
> of responsibility. While I didn't want to be a grown-up, I wanted at least
> to act like one in the less toxic and stultifying sense of the term.

> So, I sat down around 2 am on October 3, 1977 and I drew up this list of
> behavioral goals that I hoped might assist in this process. ...

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askvictor
Quite a few seem to be based on Stoicism.

Incidentally, I was watching last night Tim Minchin (an Australian comedian)'s
address[1] when receiving his honorary doctorate, and there is a fair bit of
overlap

1: [http://www.timminchin.com/2013/09/25/occasional-
address/](http://www.timminchin.com/2013/09/25/occasional-address/)

------
classics2
Some of these things are pretty good things to be mindful about in adult life,
most of them in fact.

However, applying them all would make you the worlds biggest doormat.

~~~
aje403
Agree too much. I'm not sure where the author is from. This all sounds great
on paper, but life is a lot messier.

~~~
Blackthorn
The author has a great experience with a messy life -- he's John Perry Barlow.

In case you're wondering how these came about though, from his AMA:

> In fact, the night before I turned 30, I found myself so surprised to have
> reached an age of indisputable adult that I wrote up a set of "adult
> principles" that I've been trying to live up to for 35 years.

~~~
aje403
I get where the guy is coming from. It's the pipe dream we'd like to live in.

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rdmsr
What does the phrase "blood sport" mean here? Giving up literal blood sports
seems so obvious as to not be worth mentioning, but metaphorical ones so vague
that there's probably a better way to phrase it.

~~~
peterlk
In my mimd, this roughly translates to: don't orchestrate the misfortune of
others for your own entertainment or gain.

In the business world, I think this comes down to scamming or defrauding
people

~~~
tootie
Can I still watch football?

~~~
bb88
That's actually prescient with the NFL concussion crisis.

I'm not sure anymore.

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drallison
JPB has died. See [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/02/john-perry-barlow-
inte...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/02/john-perry-barlow-internet-
pioneer-1947-2018) and comments/discussion there. JPB's Principles of Adult
Behavior are worthy goals for life.

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Waterluvian
I appreciate these and I'm not trying to rain on a parade. But aren't these
all completely obvious? The challenge I'm spending my life on is figuring out
_how_ to achieve these consistently.

~~~
peterlk
They are obvious when you read them. That's why they're good principles. Make
a calendar event for 1 month from now, and look back on the previous month to
see if you adhered to them. Personally, I will not have adhered to all of
them. That makes them non-obvious to me

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pretty_dumm_guy
This is a pretty good list of principles that one could use as a foundation
for system of beliefs. However, I believe that one should learn about the
situations in which these principles apply and don't. IMO, that is what adults
are good at. That is what one should thrive to learn.

An example to consider: when thinking about rule 1, it doesn't make any sense
to wait patiently in a line when others are cutting in. One has to stand up
for himself/herself and say something.

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kimdcmason
All of these seem sensible except "Avoid the pursuit of happiness. Seek to
define your mission and pursue that."

"Your mission" is simply a placeholder for what you believe will make you
happy. It's very subject to change. I'd argue that a healthy respect for what
makes you happy can help you avoid a mission that you'll later regret.

~~~
yesenadam
It seems sensible to me. (It's a huge subject but:) I think he's referring to
the well-known paradox where aiming directly for happiness doesn't work;
instead going for meaningful goals that will give satisfaction does. Asking
"Am I happy?" constantly stops you being so. etc.

>"Your mission" is simply a placeholder for what you believe will make you
happy.

 _Simply_?! Well no. Even without that, it doesn't seem right. I think I know
what you meant, (like I think you know what he meant) but the two aren't
always equivalent. Some people have important and unattainable goals that they
know won't make them happy. Or doing your duty, like taking care of sick
family etc. More to do with meaning than happiness. It sounds like you would
argue no-one can do anything but what they believe will make them happy.

And Socrates and Kierkegaard etc realized that often in life we would regret
either of two choices. The grass is always greener, and feeling regret doesn't
mean the other choice would have been better. (e.g. To marry or not)

~~~
placebo
Yes. Another way to look at it is the bottom line of various non-dual/mystical
teachings which is basically that the best way to achieve lasting happiness is
to eliminate the seeker of it (of course, not in a physical sense) - or put
more accurately, to realize that the very illusion of the personal self is the
root cause of the unhappiness.

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btilly
OK, I see why people like this list. But I would definitely argue with several
of the principles presented.

Here are some examples.

 _Be patient. No matter what._ There are times when presenting impatience is
the right way to get results. They are usually overused, but deadlines do have
a proper place in your motivational toolbox.

 _Never assume the motives of others are, to them, less noble than yours are
to you._ Never? And what if the other is lying, cheating and stealing? I fully
agree with "do not lightly assume", but "never" is the wrong standard.

 _Never lie to anyone for any reason. (Lies of omission are sometimes
exempt.)_ If a person is using force to attempt to steal from me, or harm
those I care about, it is fine for me to lie to them in self-defense. Again,
"never" is the wrong standard.

 _Reduce your use of the first personal pronoun._ I find that people are much
more likely to accept and act on criticism if I tell a story about myself
which parallels the problem that I see. (Sadly "much more" does not mean
"very".) This is a concrete example of how my increasing my use of "the first
personal pronoun" was a good thing, not a bad one.

 _Remember that love forgives everything._ Only if you define forgiveness in
the right way. If someone steals from me, and I have a loving understanding of
them, then I can forgive them their past action. But I still probably
shouldn't put myself in a position where they can steal from me in the future.

 _Endure._ I did that with my ex for a quarter century. I learned that some
things SHOULD NOT be endured. My life is much better now.

~~~
hi-im-mi-ih
The point of the list is to reduce the best human behavior into a small cheat
sheet. It's like boilerplate that includes all the important functions.

The complexity of the environment created by and occupied by human experiences
is infinite. There are infinite scenarios that humans find themselves in, and
there are infinite positive responses to those scenarios. You can take any
positive human response to a given scenario and "disprove" the response's
positive outcome by changing something about the scenario. But once you do
that, you introduce other positive responses that could taken instead.

The principles boil down it into 25 patterns of human behavior that tend to
result in success for the individual and his/her greater community. The list
is an optimum solution: lowest number of characters for the highest amount of
good outcome if followed. When confronting the complexity of existence, a set
of guidelines is useful to refer to.

However, anyone that consults a list of principles when their family is in
danger is likely not smart enough to comprehend the list anyways, so it does
not apply to them.

~~~
btilly
More correctly, it is someone's opinion about what an optimum solution might
be.

I disagree with that opinion, for reasons that I explained above.

~~~
hi-im-mi-ih
You're also not interested in debating your opinions, which is your right but
also frustrating.

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dagurp
> Live memorably

why?

~~~
threatofrain
That one's a bit iffy, but I would argue that living memorably and living
consequentially probably go hand in hand, but still iffy because some great
contributors aren't popular, and some popular people are morally unwell.

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spicymaki
Thanks for posting this!

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jdtang13
Lame and not very elegant at all. Better authors have said this in more
concise and interesting ways.

