
Nintendo Discontinues the NES Classic Edition - richardboegli
http://ign.com/articles/2017/04/13/nintendo-discontinues-the-nes-classic-edition
======
codebeaker
There had been some speculation on Reddit that it was a run of near-obsolete
hardware proposed by one of their partners. Some teardown (I can't find a
source now) found out that it was shipping with already EOL'ed components that
weren't available for back-order from the fabs.

If anyone has more information than my 3rd hand comment, I'd be super
interested. I was very disappointed not to find one for sale for a reasonable
price. I would have loved one.

~~~
ChuckMcM
If true that would be a really creative way of making some nice profits.
Typically distributors are anxious to dump excess EOL parts as demand will
plummet. According to my friend who was an account manager at Wyle they would
sell off their stock to one of the 'old part finders' for 1/2 to 1/4 of the
previous suggested price.

If Nintendo proactively found a bunch of EOL parts they could make a nice
limited edition product out of, the buy the parts at a steep discount, sell
the 'limited edition' at a price premium, and maximize their gross margin.
Frankly I've never met a procurement manager with the guts to do something
like that but I'm sure they are out there.

~~~
favorited
While not an exact example, it matches GameBoy creator Gunpei Yokoi's concept
of "Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology." The idea is that you find
widely understood tech, which is inexpensive due to its widespread use in
other areas, and find a way to use it in making games. Everything from using
calculator LED displays for the Game & Watch to using an accelerometer in a
Wii Remote follows that principle.

Sourcing a bunch of inexpensive parts and throwing together something like the
NES Classic Edition to fill the gap in an otherwise Nintendo-less holiday
season seems to fit that mantra.

Yokoi made some of the first toys (for personal enjoyment, out of spare parts
in a factory) which, when Nintendo's young president Yamauchi saw them,
convinced him to really commit to the consumer toy space.

~~~
tawayway
>an accelerometer in a Wii Remote

I don't think this is the best example, accelerometers were not a cheap common
part at the time. The Wii predates the iPhone, MEMS accelerometers were not
anywhere near as widely deployed as they are now and they cost an order of
magnitude or two more.

I can remember hobbyists buying Wii Remotes after launch just to rip out the
sensors :)

IMO, perfect example is the B&W LCD on the original DMG Gameboy. A generation
behind the competition, but cheap and low-power for the time.

~~~
vanderZwan
The Wii Remote is more an example of Iwata's Blue Ocean strategy.

The rest of the Wii hardware however..

~~~
chrisdbaldwin
A Gamecube with an extra chip...

~~~
vanderZwan
Exactly, nobody said that proven and established hardware couldn't be _your
own hardware_ after all

------
BinaryIdiot
How disappointing. I was hoping Nintendo was taking a lesson from Steam: if
you make it stupid easy to pay and play games then people will pay for them.
NES Classic was a way to, legally, play a whole bunch of old Nintendo games
without resorting to cheap emulators and pirated games that many, many gamers
resort to.

I'm hoping they're going to re-release this in the near future or something
similar that is at a similar price point but let's you play a back catalog of
NES, SNES and N64 games. If they had a legal way for me to do that I would
pick it up in a heart beat.

I guess the alternative is offering all these classic games on the Switch but
is the target audience really the same? A $300 handheld versus a $60 dedicated
classic TV console?

I also wonder if Nintendo could destroy the market of cheap / gimmicky
consoles that you can buy for like $50 that include "150 games!". Release
something that anyone can afford, hook it up to an e-store and let game devs
release cheap games on it. It would be like hooking up the N64 / SNES / NES
consoles with online services.

I think I rambled a little bit but hopefully it made sense.

~~~
theandrewbailey
Nintendo is run by old men who will not do anything different. Trying to get
Nintendo to change is a laborious task, requiring _everyone_ to be on board
with it.[0] Combine it with their copyright, trademark, and Youtube
monetization policies, if it had it's way, Nintendo would love having no one
play with their toys.

Mr. Sterling has preached about Nintendo many times before:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRicuKHmjZA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRicuKHmjZA)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_vGe68T6sM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_vGe68T6sM)

[0] [http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7867965/conservative-
stuffy...](http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7867965/conservative-stuffy-old-
nintendo-and-its-weird-habit-of-wild)

> _" Nintendo is not only a Japanese company, it is a Kyoto-based company," he
> said, replying to a question about the difficulty of effecting change at
> Nintendo. "For people who aren't familiar, Kyoto-based are to Japanese
> companies as Japanese companies are to U.S. companies. They're very
> traditional, and very focused on hierarchy and group decision making.
> Unfortunately, that creates a culture where everyone is an advisor and no
> one is a decision maker, but almost everyone has veto power."_

~~~
bovermyer
While I'm tempted to make a blanket statement that "tradition is the bane of
progress," I think in this case it's a little more nuanced.

Nintendo needs a competitor. Sony and Microsoft are competitors of each other;
Nintendo has not been in that fight for over a decade now.

I'd be hard pressed to define exactly what Nintendo is, though, and what kind
of competitor it needs.

~~~
ckozlowski
I'd argue that Nintendo's biggest competitors are the iPhone and Android game
markets.

------
socalnate1
Nintendo makes the most confusing business decisions.

~~~
duskwuff
The only possible explanation I can think of is that a replacement product is
in the works (e.g, wider game selection, SNES support, downloadable games,
etc). Otherwise... WTF.

~~~
Asooka
That product is called the Switch.

~~~
wernercd
The Switch has a lesser appeal than a $50 box that has a lifetime of
nostalgia.

~~~
tartuffe78
Not for everybody, and not for most people I'd wager.

------
fred256
From the moment this was launched I had wanted to buy one but never could find
one in stock at MSRP. Eventually just built a RetroPie box :/

~~~
mrfusion
How hard was it to build? Any tips?

~~~
CWuestefeld
I started from here: [https://retropie.org.uk/](https://retropie.org.uk/)

It was actually quite simple. Starting from opening the box on the RPi, that
I'd never touched before, being kind of a Linux moron, and tracking down the
necessary hardware (an old TV and USB joystick, and some networking stuff), I
had it running in just a couple of hours.

The only thing that slowed me down at all was figuring out how to copy ROM
files onto it through the network.

------
accountyaccount
Nintendo certainly makes it difficult to consistently play their old titles.

~~~
stale2002
It's actually super easy.

Just go to the pirate bay and download an emulator.

~~~
542458
To _legally_ play their old titles then.

And anyways, that's not Nintendo making it easy, that's the people who build
emulators and rip ROMs making it easy.

~~~
bisby
I don't generally condone piracy. But I also believe that when a company makes
it hard to enjoy their games, or tries to milk money out of games that are 30
years old, that I've probably paid for several times over the years, then I
don't care anymore. If even .1% of Nintendo's revenue comes from NES/SNES
games, then they are doing it VERY wrong. And if it's less, I don't feel bad
because I know I'm not ruining some market segment.

I had an NES as a kid, rebought an NES in college with most of my childhood
games, and bought quite a few games on Wii virtual console. These games arent
easily portable, take up a lot of space, and I'm not even sure how to hook an
NES up to a modern TV offhand. NES won't give me simplicity for the games I've
paid for, so by definition of terrible copyright laws, I resort to "piracy".
And while im there, theres other games i always wanted to try as a kid, that
nintendo will make difficult for me to play (heck, if I went to piracy for
legally owned games, why would games i dont own be any easier). It's a vicious
cycle.

steam has demonstrated that you can easily cut piracy simply by making things
readily available and easy to use. dont give people incentive and then
complain about it.

~~~
cr0sh
> I'm not even sure how to hook an NES up to a modern TV offhand.

The original NES had RCA composite output (plus audio) - so all you'd need is
a composite-to-HDMI adaptor, like this one:

[https://www.amazon.com/Portta-Composite-Converter-Scaler-
sup...](https://www.amazon.com/Portta-Composite-Converter-Scaler-
support/dp/B00CQ3K0PY/)

For something like the Sega Genesis (not that you wondered), it also had
composite output, but needed a "special" mini-DIN cable; the pinout is out
there, and an RCA jack can be soldered in place if you wanted. Also, the same
jack (IIRC) served up S-VIDEO, so you could use that instead (S-VIDEO to
HDMI).

If all you had was RF output (like for an Atari 2600) - you could do a RF-to-
Composite converter, then from that into a Composite-to-HDMI converter.

Where you might run into problems on all of these solutions are those areas
where artifacting was used on-screen to generate false colors; sometimes the
converters will strip that out (their conversion is too good), or the TV will
(same thing, plus LCD vs CRT tech).

~~~
xanderstrike
Those adapters are fine now, but what about in 10 years when it's even harder
to find a working NES? 20? 50? At some point there will be no more working
systems and cartridges, but because of the efforts of pirates these games can
and probably will live forever.

~~~
MrFoof
There are alternatives like the Analogue NT which is fully compatible with the
entire Nintendo library, including Flash carts like the PowerPak and
Everdrive. It has a built-in Four Score. It supports Component and HDMI
output. It has a built in hardware upscaler. It supports wireless controllers
with no input latency, light guns, and basically any 3rd party controller ever
made. It also has a Famicom slot, so it'll play both NES and Famicom
cartridges without adapters. It has the Famicom expansion port as well, so
it'll even play Famicom Disk System games. It is the Nintendo completely
reverse engineered using an Altera Cyclone V FPGA to emulate the hardware _in
hardware_.

Granted, it's $450, but it plays your games perfectly, and on your modern
hardware in ways that an original NES couldn't without RGB modding a top-
loader and getting a separate upscaler.

I'm a retro speedrunner, and I intend on getting one later this year rather
than modding my 30-year old NES (which I self-refurbish) and buying an
upscaler and having a nest of cables.

Hobbyists are making some amazing stuff. Someone is currently making component
cables that work with your SNES, as well as ones for the Sega Genesis and Sega
Saturn. I'm on the waiting list to pounce when the next batch arrives. It's
like classic cars. In the 60s no one cared. In the 80s and 90s people built
businesses to fill the niche and take all the money being left on the table.

~~~
bisby
I know hardcore retro gamers consider "on hardware" and "on emulator" to be
separate categories. I remember getting super mario world to memory jump to
the credits on actual hardware was a big thing.

Where does Analogue NT fit in there? That's not ORIGINAL hardware. It could
technically have different quirks that means minor differences could play out.
That puts it more in the emulator category right?

~~~
MrFoof
It emulates the NES perfectly, since it exactly emulates the NES hardware on
more powerful modern hardware. Every glitch will work exactly as it does on an
actual NES. That was their goal. A few places have reviewed it to _ensure_ the
glitches work as expected -- sure enough, they do.

They had some of the most hardcore folks in the emulation community included
in the development. The guys who designed it wanted it to be reference
quality. It supports all the options of every NES made, including full support
for custom sound chips (like FDS versions of Castlevania 3, which sound
amazing), and stuff like the PowerPak and Everdrive -- because to the game, it
IS the NES.

It's exactly why I'm getting one myself. As a speedrunner, reference quality
(whether on hardware or software) is a requirement for me to have my world
records be considered legit.

~~~
bisby
That works for me. I wasnt trying to discredit the machine, I was asking with
genuine curiosity, since I knew that there was a difference between emulators
and "reference" hardware. Cheers :)

------
misingnoglic
This is absolutely ridiculous, if they just supplied it correctly (something I
was hoping they would learn to do by now) this thing would literally be free
money for Nintendo. Or that's what it seems like to me - I know I would have
at least bought one if it was available for the holiday season. How do they
always underestimate the supply that they need?

------
rapt
I have been hoping for an snes edition, but since the switch is doing so well,
I highly doubt we will see it in the near future.

------
cableshaft
Arrgh! I saw several of these sitting on the counter of a Gamestop just last
week, but instead decided 'No, I was just able to get two Switch consoles.
That's enough for today. I'll grab one of those in a week or two."

Now with this sudden announcement, no doubt those have vanished and I won't
see one again without paying as much as a Switch ($300+) for one. Thanks,
Nintendo. You're really listening to your fans here.

------
bnj
Maybe it was eating into attention for the switch

Or maybe in additional to supply issues it was relatively expensive to
produce?

~~~
handruin
Tough to say for sure regarding taking attention from the Switch but from what
I've seen the Switch is still selling out very quickly from retailers. That
makes me believe there is still high demand.

It could be that their virtual console once-released may be in competition for
sales of classic games.

------
petercooper
Discontinued despite never making it to Amazon or even the Nintendo store in
the UK for retail price after the preorder! I'm guessing Nintendo isn't too
bothered by people using emulators if they're withdrawing paid alternatives
like this.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Nintendo continue to selling classics via their Virtual Console/store.

------
dbg31415
Don't worry! It's very easy to build a RetroPie box!

* RetroPie - Retro-gaming on the Raspberry Pi || [https://retropie.org.uk/](https://retropie.org.uk/)

------
partycoder
While sad, there are good emulators for the NES/Famicom. With a proper display
and a controller you may not notice a substantial difference.

Now, while emulators are legal, ROMs may not. I wish Nintendo and others could
release a desktop version of their legacy games shop.

I understand their business is "software sells hardware", but in the case of
legacy games they could bring more revenue if they were a bit more open.

------
15charlimit
I figured they would actually have to start producing something in order to
"discontinue" it though? /s

Have yet to see stock anywhere except through scalpers. Nintendo continues to
have a huge supply problem with basic availability of hardware, for whatever
reason.

Would buy one in a heartbeat. Not going to reward a scumbag scalper by
spending a penny over MSRP to do so though.

------
faragon
In my opinion, Nintendo should release a FPGA-based NES/SNES, with low latency
joypads, and perfect audio and video (including advanced filters for "clean"
and "perfectly distorted" experience). That, plus a "market" so they can
ensure profits, would be huge, both for them, and for the users.

~~~
chadgeidel
The "Analogue Nt" fits the bill, but it's a pretty pricey option:
[https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/analogue-nt-a-
museum-...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/analogue-nt-a-museum-grade-
nes-for-a-museum-grade-price/)

I don't know how low-latency the RetroN
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RetroN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RetroN))
is but you can use the original games and gamepads with that. I think it's
android-based, so it's a software emulator.

~~~
faragon
Sure. Exactly that. If Nintendo puts that FPGA into an ASIC, in volume it
could cost less than 20 USD per chip.

~~~
kidbeta
Its not nintendo but from everything i can find its a pretty faithful
reproduction of the hardware for a reasonablish price.
[https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12/retrousb-avs-
review/](https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12/retrousb-avs-review/) .I havent
gotten one yet but I have been mighty tempted.

~~~
faragon
RetroUSB AVS is not a full hardware implementation, but a cartridge reader +
software emulation, i.e. you'll have over 30ms delay (16.6ms * 2), because of
framebuffer synchronization.

------
davexunit
I got lucky and was able to get a pre-order of the initial batch. However, I
didn't get a second controller which now seems very foolish. Looking around it
seems that $30 is as cheap as I can expect to find one.

~~~
CodeTheInternet
Is it more feasible to find an original NES controller and swap out the
connector?

~~~
khedoros1
The new controls are basically Wiimote add-ons. The original NES controllers
have a different communication protocol.

~~~
davexunit
What looks more feasible than buying a second NES classic controller is to
instead buy a Wii Classic Pro controller. No need to spend $40.

~~~
khedoros1
Are any of the cheaper knock-offs particularly good? The quality of 3rd party
game controllers has always seemed hit or miss to me.

~~~
davexunit
I'm not sure. I never buy third-party because of those quality issues.

------
sdadasrty
I didn't buy the NES Classic Edition (not interested in living room consoles),
but it would be an instabuy if Nintendo made another run of the Gameboy with
30 good games for ~$50.

------
notadoc
Seems odd, there is still huge demand for this thing. Why discontinue it?

~~~
vermontdevil
I think they want you to buy Switch and put all $ and focus on that.

------
sparky_
The device has evidently been rooted to allow flashing other NES roms. I
wonder if that had something to do with it.

------
mikejmoffitt
I'm sure a lot of people are going to recommend RetroPie and other emulation
packages. I'm going to recommend against general-purpose emulation if you
enjoy the games in question: [https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/2019/an-
input-lag-invest...](https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/2019/an-input-lag-
investigation/2)

~~~
EpicEng
Why that? I've been emulating nes and snes games for nearly twenty years now
with no issues. Not clear why you recommend against it from reading your link.

------
dfar1
1.5 million sold... any chance this will have any value in 50 years?

------
mod50ack
Actually a decently hackable box. Stuck N64 and SNES support on it.

------
ourmandave
I suppose the ones on Ebay prices tripled on this news.

------
pvaldes
It seems that greasemonkey anti-aede works also inside HN. Didn't know. Nice.

------
aanm1988
oh well, at least they haven't fucked me over w.r.t. the switch yet.

------
lr4444lr
I'm just gonna put this out there with no citations or proof: this
controller[0] had the best hand feel of any console controller ever.

[0][https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Nintendo...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Nintendo-
Entertainment-System-NES-Controller-FL.jpg)

