
My offer numbers from big companies - non_sequitur
https://us.teamblind.com/article/sharing-my-offer-numbers-from-big-companies-for-your-reference-yNgqUPQR
======
shubhamjain
It seems standard way to get a great compensation is to sit down and exercise
all the run-of-the-mill algorithmic questions because that will matter the
most in the end. Further optimisation could be made by being less fearful
about negotiating the offer. Asking for 10% more would never hurt [1].

I am not a fierce critic of BigCo. interviewing practises but it seems a
little disappointing that coding side-projects, contributing to open source,
and writing mean so little in getting hired.

[1]: [https://medium.com/we-are-yammer/how-i-negotiated-for-an-
add...](https://medium.com/we-are-yammer/how-i-negotiated-for-an-
additional-15-000-at-yammer-2d3c137623ec)

~~~
woolvalley
It's because the vast majority of candidates, including a lot of very good
ones, will do none of those things.

~~~
hawski
Work will have much more in common with said open source efforts than with all
those algorithmic challenges though.

~~~
woolvalley
A good chunk of these people will be good engineers that cannot talk about or
show the stuff they worked on at their previous job. And those places
specifically ban them from making apps or working on open source and they will
be hard workers that work 40-50+ hours a week. Maybe they have kids too.

How do you interview these people?

I agree, algo interviews are annoying and I wish it wasn't there. If it wasn't
it would make switching jobs a lot faster. But thats what it is. The suggested
alternative of portfolio work has it's own problems, the same with homework
problems.

Unfortunately, even places that have you write code with the internet still
have an algo inteview or two.

~~~
toomanybeersies
I had an interviewer ask my for some code samples. Conveniently it was the day
after I accepted another offer, but that was a definite no bueno for me, I
don't contribute to open source, and I was hardly going to send them some code
samples from my previous job.

------
ChicagoDave
I guess I need to move to Silicon Valley. These numbers are insane for two
years and an undergrad degree. I have 32 years experience and I don't get
these kinds of offers. This is either complete BS or the guy is a savant.
Something smells fishy here.

~~~
cjhanks
They seem a bit higher than what I would normally expect for 2 year
experience; sometimes a successful startup and some salary negotiations can
give you a boost.

But recall: $1 USD (SFO) != $1 USD (Almost anywhere else).

And there are some other downsides, you work very long hours in a company of
70%+ men. I think quality of life in South Bay for most isn't as nice as much
less affluent places. It depends on your cup of tea, I guess.

[https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-
calculator/compare...](https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-
calculator/compare/san-francisco-vs-chicago)

~~~
ChicagoDave
According to that site, I'd need to make over $200k to meet my same standard
of living, but I still think someone with two years experience can't come
close to my knowledge of software development. There are inherent limitations.
Of course if the job is to write code without any comment about the big
picture and without complaint about hours, then maybe it is competitive. And
that signing bonus? That just doesn't translate to the Midwest at all.

~~~
scarface74
We just bought a 5 bedroom, 3-1/2 bathroom house with a nice size separate
office in the northern suburbs of Atlanta with about 2800 square feet. Brand
new build for $335,000 with all of the niceties. I've looked on Zillow, the
same square footage, much older home, would be around 2-4 million at least in
San Francisco.

~~~
softawre
Yup, _this_ is the major difference. The COL numbers can be explained away,
but if you want space now and a retirement later then you can get by with much
less work outside SF.

~~~
ChicagoDave
In Chicago, it's fairly common to take a regional 50 to 75 minute train ride
into the city from a distant suburb. Is there anything like that for Silicon
Valley? Can you get an hour away by train and lower housing costs?

~~~
pmiller2
Sure. Live in the Eaat Bay and BART in.

~~~
ChicagoDave
How about that. Clean 1br for around $1500/month and 10 minutes from BART
station. That's pricey, but workable.

~~~
pmiller2
That's actually cheap, depending on the BART station (not all are created
equal), the size of the place, whether it's gated, and whether you mean 10
minutes walking or driving.

------
kevindeasis
403 Error.

TLDR the author had 2 years experience

1) Google - 140k base, 107.5k RSUs, 50k sign on, 15% bonus

2) Facebook - 160k base, 75k RSUs, 70k sign on, 10% bonus

3) Lyft - 170k base, 180k RSUs, 20k sign on

4) Dropbox - 162k base, 114k RSUs, 10k sign on

5) Airbnb - 152k base, 75k RSUs, 13.5k sign on

6) Palantir - 150k base, 51k stock options, 25k sign on, 25k bonus

~~~
hkmurakami
I cringe every time I see Palantir still on options when their 409a valuation
must be very close to their preferred price at this point.

~~~
richardknop
From what I have read about the potential Palantir IPO in 2019, they might be
valued less than current 20 billion valuation if they IPO, potentially much
less. It will depend on how well they do in 2018, that will be key year if
they are going for 2019 IPO.

------
thisisit
> 2\. What's your background?

> Male. Two years of professional experience. Bachelors. Non-ivy league
> school. _Previously from a unicorn startup_. I'm mentioning these because
> people ask, not that I think they matter.

Being an alumni from unicorn startup is my guess on why he got these offers.

People are obsessed with salaries and positions which I think is unhealthy.
But what I find ironic is that I have always heard the rich talk about how
money can't buy happiness or how you should take risks from people who have
some kind of backing - monetary/family or like here how background doesn't
matter, even with evidence like unicorn or referrals.

Edited for some clarity.

~~~
hkmurakami
Money can absolutely buy a lot of contributing factors to Happiness. However
it can't solve your unhappiness.

Also not having money will often cause unhappiness.

~~~
siddharthdeswal
You're as wise as your username.

To add to your points, money used to invest in experiences with loved ones
will certainly add to happiness.

------
40acres
It always strikes me as odd at how much HN complanies about hiring practices
in tech. Spend a few weeks with Leetcode and CTCI and you have a decent shot
at salaries in this range at the BigCo's (depends on location of course).

What other industry has it's interview process so transparent with such high
rewards?

~~~
hocuspocus
If you have a job and any kind of social life, going through 200~300 questions
like OP is going to take you more than a few weeks.

A lot of people complain because this is the very example of cargo culting,
you hire people who went through the same questions and reject those who
haven't, even though it has no bearing on their ability to do the job.

~~~
richardknop
Sure but you are forgetting a key factor. Once you get Google/FB/Amazon (or to
a lesser extent even a unicorn like Netflix/Airbnb/Dropbox etc) on your CV,
that will help you tremendously in your career.

You will get shortlisted for top jobs and bombarded by opportunities by
recruiters forever and you will be able to skip any screenings and phone
interviews and just go for final onsite interview mostly.

Investing several weeks or couple of months once might be worth it as you will
reap benefits for a long time, perhaps until retirement.

You need to consider this before you decide not to spend the time to go
through CTCI etc.

~~~
hocuspocus
I've had interviews with most companies you mention. Getting in touch with a
recruiter and passing the phone screenings hasn't really been a problem.

Maybe I'm not smart enough, but on-site rounds are a different story. I've
practiced CTCI and solved my fair share of questions on Leetcode. Yet I find
pretty hard to get back into it on a short notice. It's not a one-time
investment. I assume I'm not the only one since

\- The on-site to offer conversion ratio is typically between 6:1 and 8:1 at
such companies.

\- Most people do better with practice. It implies that a standardized process
is biased towards people who have the opportunity and time to interview a lot
for fun. (Some companies let teams do their own hiring though, where this is
less of an issue).

Not everyone lives in the valley or in a place with a high concentration of
tech companies. At least the Microsoft-era questions such as "how much would
you charge to clean all the windows in Seattle" were more equally silly and
unfair to everyone, including outsiders.

~~~
richardknop
Well I applied for a job at both Netflix & Twitch and never heard back from
them. I think if I had Google/Apple/Facebook/Amazon on my CV I might have
gotten more recognition. Just my personal opinion, I could be wrong.

Funny thing is, I have been called by Google, Amazon and FB recruiters in
London couple of times. But I never went for onsite interview. I figured they
can't really match contractor pay and they only outsource "shitty" jobs to
London (I told recruiters my contractor rate and asked them if they can
match/beat it and answer was no).

~~~
hocuspocus
FB London has many teams doing interesting stuff. I'm not sure about Google
(Zürich is bigger and pays more anyway) or Amazon.

Netflix got back to me within a couple hours after a one-click application on
their careers page! Unfortunately I had to prioritize other companies at that
time, we put things on hold due to the visa situation in the US and I never
got the chance to have a technical interview.

Before I left Berlin, Twitch seemed to be hiring engineers there.

~~~
richardknop
Yeah, but pay in London is mediocre compared to contracting (for FB and GOOG).

I applied to US. I was never interested in moving to Berlin.

------
nerflad
I'm in the southeast. 24, self-taught, no degree (I was able to make it
through Triplebyte, though I'm not persuaded that actually means anything).
2009-2015 IT/helpdesk/sysadmin, and 2015-2017 more dev/devops, all with a
local medium (~350 employee) retail-ish business that grosses about $30m
annually if I had to guess. I quit this year for a number of reasons
(depression), but I mainly worked on automation. A collection of scripts I
wrote (and documented!) saves about 30 days' worth of the team's time
annually. I made $22.50/hour. The numbers in this post are unfathomable to me.

~~~
sillysaurus3
Switch companies more frequently. Each time you do, you'll make more.

The trick is, you're worth whatever the market is willing to pay. But the only
way to find out is to go out on the market. Most people stick with the same
job for years, meaning they only check their worth a few times. Hence low
salaries.

~~~
stocktech
IMO, the key to this is to also increase your responsibilities and skill level
- which sounds like the OP has, but some people ignore. It's the difference
between a 10% bump and 2x-3x moves early in your career. I also think it's
worthwhile to find a good company - growth and culture - and then negotiate
well as tech and domain knowledge will make you less replaceable.

One thing that gets ignored on the west coast is how to specialize without
hurting your career. In the southeast, we don't have endless tech companies,
if you specialize poorly, you could get stuck with relocation being the only
answer.

------
simonbarker87
I live in the UK, to me these numbers are insane. How are these salaries at
that work experience possible? Is the pay increase from then on slow? Are
these salaries sustainable for the industry long term? I know experienced
professionals who would be considered successful in the UK who finish their
careers nowhere near this level of salary (not programmers but certainly
engineers). I’m astounded.

~~~
King-Aaron
This is what I wonder also. It's like here in Australia, where blue-collar
truck drivers can get paid $200k/year. It doesn't seem sustainable... because
it isn't.

Edit: This has resulted in what people are calling a "two-speed" economy -
[http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1421/HTML/docshell....](http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1421/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=02+The+resources+boom+and+the+two+speed+economy.htm)

~~~
cyberferret
I knew a 19 year old girl who was driving trucks in a mine in Western
Australia. She was on $180K/year. She gave it up after a year though
apparently, and I don't know where she is these days so cannot ask her why she
left a job that was paying that much only a couple of years out of high
school.

~~~
King-Aaron
I can give you some direct insight on that.

First of all, she would have experienced _severe_ gender bias. I don't think
it needs an explanation when you consider a demographic of mostly low-to-
moderately-educated men in the workforce and everyone living in fairly close
quarters.

Secondly, the conditions are harsh. You work around 14-hour days in 35-45
degree C heat. This wears out people very quickly. It can get so hot that
rubbish bins catch on fire themselves, and you can cook an egg on your car's
roof.

And third, people get homesick due to the rosters - usually 2 weeks on, one
week off (or similar). It disrupts relationships and takes a big personal toll
on people.

There are a lot of people that do it for years - but the majority pull a year
or two and then leave.

~~~
cyberferret
I figured it would have been something like this. She was a fairly attractive
young lady. Very capable, but I am thinking she would have copped a fair
amount of harrassment just due to her gender.

I am several male friends in the mining and offshore oil rig game too, and
those jobs appear to suit young people without a family and little social
life. Once relationships and kids come into the equation, that shift regime
just doesn't seem to be compatible.

~~~
bdcravens
I know someone in Brisbane who did the mining thing who went to General
Assembly and accepted the first job he could get his hands on - he knew mining
wasn't sustainable.

------
curiousgal
> _Thankfully I had FB and Google referrals else I doubt I would have gotten a
> reply at all._

~~~
mathgladiator
This is one of the things that really sucks about the industry. It is a new
"boy's club", and if you know people in the club then the barrier to entry is
easier (if you can code at a reasonable capacity).

~~~
wwalser
The entry fee for a referral is striking up a single conversation at a
conference. If someone from a big tech company is speaking at a conference,
the fact that they are speaking isn't the primary reason for being present.
They are there to recruit.

~~~
richardknop
Just having a chat with someone at a conference is often not enough to get a
referral tbh. I'd assume for a referral you need to know a person at least
reasonably well, i.e. you know each other on first name basis and have been
out for a beer or worked together on some open source project or something
like that. I don't believe you can just walk to a person at a conference, talk
to them to 15 minutes and then ask for their referral.

~~~
wwalser
I was a bit brief on tactics. Yes. Don't just ask for a referral.

Tactics:

Understand that they are there to recruit. This should give you confidence.
This isn't some weird game, you're not manipulating or tricking them. They are
here for these conversations. Some soft-skill tactics don't work for everyone.
If some/none of the below materializes or isn't your thing, it's alway okay to
ask. "Are you doing any recruiting while in town? I'm interested in talking to
someone at NeatCo."

If you can speak at the conference, that is preferable. If not, walking up and
saying hi will work but it should involve you asking a well-informed question
about the thing they are speaking about. Spend an hour before the conference
researching their topic and come with something in mind: What lead company X
to create Y? If someone were motivated, could they create ${interesting but
not crazy new feature/thing} using Y?

If you don't have a question, just talk about the content of the talk. Tell
them what you thought.

The person speaking on behalf of NeatCo will often bring another person with
them. The speaker is the domain expert, the other person will often be someone
capable of hiring. If they bring a +1, talk to that person as well.

The goal of your chat is to get any of: dinner invite, next-day coffee,
straight up ad-hoc interview.

------
ken47
True, if big.

Anyone could write up such a Blind post. And when it comes to anonymously
bragging via lies on the internet, there is no shortage of prior art.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if the growth rate of engineering
applications to these bigcos has declined over the past few years. A decline
in the supply of candidates relative to demand, among other factors, could
lead to an increase in compensation per offer.

That being said, I'm still leaning towards this post being BS.

~~~
richardknop
But you get these posts on HN quite often with similar numbers. I'd assume all
of them are not lying or using fake data to brag. If only some of them are
telling the truth then the numbers are real which is why I tend to believe
them.

~~~
adventured
The only thing about the post that seems off, is the experience level that's
generating that income. It could happen though, it's not implausible. The
income figures stand-alone are not abnormal for someone with several more
years of experience.

We're looking at maybe 3.7% type U3 unemployment in 2018. The Fed's GDP
Nowcast figure is projecting nearly 4% growth for the fourth quarter. Throw on
corp tax cuts and possibly infrastructure spending in 2018, and the US economy
might expand at something like 3.5% for all of 2018. There's a massive hiring
rush going on around things like artificial intelligence, that is vacuuming up
immense amounts of engineering talent (depleting the total pool for everything
else). These salaries might get crazier yet.

~~~
richardknop
Which is good for us (software engineers). I have noticed the same thing in
Europe. Even though it's nowhere near Silicon Valley, I have noticed salaries
in London rising faster than they used before. So there's definitely shortage
of talent and market (supply / demand) seems to be reacting to this and
driving salaries up.

~~~
adventured
Definitely. Incomes and growth are starting to pick-up in Europe and Japan
(finally) as well. Much of the globe is in sync on this expansion. I'm not
sure if that means we're getting close to the next recession pull-back, or if
the global economy is finally fully pulling out of the great recession era.
There are some indicators aggressively pointing both ways right now. I'd like
to see it continue for a while yet just so workers can see a meaningful net
wage gain vs 10-15 years ago. At least in the US, corporations can afford to
give up some margin due to a tight labor market, given the profit boom over
the last decade (plus the inbound corp tax cuts).

~~~
richardknop
I hope Japan finally gets a break. They have been in a stagnation for such a
long time and it had to be really tough for young people. There is already a
sizable lost generation, Japan really needs to get some growth going so the
new generation gets some economic boost (and is able to afford to raise a
family) and doesn't become second lost generation in a row. That would be
really bad.

------
sytelus
If you are making $100K in Albany, GA then to have same standard of living in
SFO you need to make $201K: [http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-
living/index.html](http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-
living/index.html)

So SFO/Bay area is _that_ expensive. Most people don't think of that and
assume that SFO requires modest 20% increase in cost of living. Absolutely not
true. So before you get floored with these numbers you need to divide them by
almost a factor of 2 for the corresponding standard of living.

------
hpaavola
10 years ago I was working for VMware in Palo Alto as an intern and my salary
was $5.5k per month. They offered me a permanent position for $75k per year,
but I decided to move back to Finland. I would say that those numbers in the
article sound believable. Housing costs in the bay area are crazy.

~~~
jstanley
Housing costs shouldn't really factor into what the company is willing to pay
staff though. It costs the company the same amount regardless of how much it
costs the employee to live.

~~~
lev99
Housing costs come in to play when trying to recruit and maintain talent. All
cities do not have enough tech talent. Migrant tech workers consider housing
costs when deciding which city to move too.

In addition, if salary does not increase with cost of living workers will
leave.

------
koevet
These numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. I live in Zurich,
Switzerland and I have a similar salary (~200K) but the high cost of living
(which, I assume, is similar if not lower than the Bay Area) make my salary
comparable to an "ok" salary in other European countries. Just to give you an
idea: the overall cost of school + a nanny for 2 kids under 6 is around 70K
year in Zurich.

As other have mentioned, the sign up bonus is quite awesome, but I assume is
not the standard in the US either.

edited: nannies -> nanny

~~~
krolley
Also living in Switzerland. I have to comment that ~200K is not "normal"
salary here either. To be fair, most people also don't have a nanny for their
kids (or more than 1 as you do), and do not pay for private school. Average
salary for a Software Dev with >10 years experience in Zurich is somewhere
around 130k - 150k.

~~~
koevet
There are no public Kinderkrippe in Zurich. If your kids are under 5, the only
option is a private kita - and if live in Zurich you should know how pricey
they are.

In any case, my point wasn't about "me". I was trying to highlight the fact
that in certain places, a high salary is driven by other factors, such as
higher-than-average cost of life, low security (Saudi Arabia), etc.

------
austinpray
[https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=$140k+salary+...](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=$140k+salary+san+francisco+vs+dallas)

For anyone else that was confused

------
cyberferret
There was a question on gender and race in the article comments. I am
wondering how much _does_ this play in the numbers game? Do tech companies ask
this in their application process (in SF, USA anyway)? Are they even allowed
to? Can they find out? Do they have recruitment teams sniffing out applicant's
social media to find out?

Sidenote: One of my favourite replies on the article comments:

> Can you share your gender and race?

>> OP is a female dwarf paladin

~~~
bruxis
I'm somewhat confused by your question, but generally it's not a secret what
gender someone is based on their resume/application. You may also be able to
glean race from this. This information is rarely anonymized.

That said, the "numbers game" doesn't really start until after you pass the
on-site, and any inherent bias likely occurs more frequently there since there
are more opportunities (likely a single phone screener/resume screener, then
4-6 on-site participants).

From what I've seen in management in SV, bias tends to rear it's head more in
the phase of considering on-site feedback in the topic "does this candidate
fit in here?" before anything gets to the offer stage.

At the offer stage, the actual financial details are usually left to a
different set of individuals, depending on the size of the company (hiring
manager, HR, CTO, CEO, etc.). There's a different opportunity for bias here,
but I think generally, it's smaller.

~~~
cyberferret
Well, with Western names, I guess a recruiter can guess at the gender, but
with some Sub-continental or Asian names - that can be hard to do.

Which leads me to another question - Do people use pseudonyms to increase
their chances of getting through initial screening of their applications?

(Anecdote: I had a (female) business mentor many years ago who said that she
had trouble getting businesses to meet with her. Until she stopped using her
full name on letters to company executives. She changed her signature from
'Anna Smith' to just 'A. Smith'. She said she then started getting lots of
replies addressed to 'Dear Mr. Smith'.)

~~~
richardknop
Depends. With Chinese people applying for jobs, for example, Chinese people
have English first name as well as their Chinese first name. And they would
use their English first name when applying for a job at US or other large
international company. So you could definitely guess gender there.

Sub continental names I would agree, if you are European or American it might
be difficult to guess the gender from name. But from the resume you might be
able to guess it based on other information (lots of people put their photo on
their CV which makes this a moot point obviously).

~~~
cyberferret
> Chinese people have English first name as well as their Chinese first name

I've always been intrigued by this. I assume they do this when they decide to
travel to the West for work or study (in order to make it easier to
communicate with locals), as opposed to being given dual names at birth?

~~~
richardknop
I think it might depend on country. Mainland China I'm not sure about but in
Taiwan/HK/SG I think parents choose a second "unofficial" English first name
for their children. This is useful exactly for reasons of traveling, studying
or working abroad or for multinational corps.

------
diiaann
These seem in line with what I've seen from friends and acquaintances. I've
also heard 100K signing bonuses to new grads at FB.
[https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-rationale-behind-
Facebooks-1...](https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-rationale-behind-
Facebooks-100K-signing-bonuses-for-engineers-and-why-havent-other-top-
software-companies-followed-suit)

~~~
akhilcacharya
It can go up to $125k if you negotiate. I’ve heard even higher but I’m
skeptical of those claims.

I’m just sad I can’t get even a fraction of that at my Big4.

Source - multiple friends at FB.

------
aroundtown
Well this makes me feel terrible... Your sign on was probably for more than
I've made in my professional career.

My first job after graduating 10 years ago was for 45k per year.

I have had an awful lot of bad luck since graduating and have yet to be paid
more than that since.

Every job I've had paid progressively less, always took them cause I needed
the job.

My last programming job paid $14 an hour.

Can anyone offer advice on breaking out of the cycle of terribleness?

I'm a US citizen, bachelors in CS, live in Tx.

~~~
electrograv
Regionally: The wealthiest companies pay the highest salaries. In the tech
world, those live on the west coast or the east coast. Texas probably isn’t
going to give you much room to grow in the tech world.

Some of it is regional, and some of it will depend on what you do. The best
salaries will go to the most valuable roles, so you may need to find out how
to develop a specialty to make your work more valuable.

$14/hour is really low. I don’t know what exactly you do, but for most
programming that’s below the market rate. If you can give me more info I’d be
happy to help with advise where I can.

~~~
aroundtown
I understand that Texas isn't going to pay well, I'm anchored to a wife who
has a PhD with extremely limited opportunities that pay decent. So here I am.

The $14 was way below market, some web work, some IT, and some updating a
program that I had built for them a year earlier. I needed the cash and it
beat flipping burgers or working retail. The place was interesting, people did
Bio-Research. I was trying to get my foot in the door and get a better job
with them. About that time my wife took a job that brought us back to Texas,
outside of San Antonio.

------
jstanley
I just get a 403 page instead of an article, probably because I browse via a
DigitalOcean IP address.

If this is enough to get me blocked, that's hilarious given that this
company's product is supposed to be "anonymous work talk" \- if they like
anonymity so much why am I not allowed to browse from whatever IP address I
like?

EDIT: And furthermore, all it takes to find out if a company uses Blind is to
type in the company name and see what it says. That's a pretty blatant privacy
leak right on the company's home page.

~~~
joshuamorton
I get the same thing. It also breaks out of a google cache view.

Here's archive.is: [https://archive.fo/FF094](https://archive.fo/FF094)

~~~
thisisit
This is interesting.

Archive:

> 5\. Did you get rejected anywhere?

> Yes, I got rejected by Asana and Instacart at the onsite stage.

Web Link:

> 5\. Did you get rejected anywhere?

> Yes, I got rejected by some smaller startups at the onsite stage.

~~~
joshuamorton
Guess he edited the post _shrug_.

------
cakkineni
Damn... I guess anyone smart should just stop complaining and find a way into
the big co.s... Living in midwest this is insane... :) ...congrats....

~~~
chrisper
You also need to think about what you'd lose if you were to work for a big
company. I do not know your current company, so maybe there is nothing to
lose.

~~~
cakkineni
I just recently quit a Big 8 co and moved to a smaller co (was working remote
for a few yrs, wanted to do something local); its just different styles of
working; the quality of work isnt much different between each other.

------
NiklasMort
I just left a company that got aquired by a big US security company, I was
offered a 140k bonus (50/50 cash/stock, under the condition of staying min. 2
y) if I stay (because they knew I was probably leaving). The Bonus was several
times more than my annual salary (Eastern Europe). Despite all the day
dreaming about the numbers I declined and left. Why? Because after 2 years
there I was already burned out, had no time, was getting calls at 5am, had to
be available 24/7\. I was miserable and had no life and for what? “The cost of
a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be
exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.” - Thoreau. Now I only work
10h a week and am so happy and relaxed, I earn enough to cover my living costs
and can use the rest of my LIFE to do whatever I want. Just wanted to share
that because I often see people here obsessing about money, but what's the
point of it if you can't live?

~~~
krolley
Couldn't you have negotiated that in your offer e.g. I'll take the 140k bonus
but my phone is off from 6pm to 8am, only covering night shift on certain days
etc. If they say no that's OK, but if they say yes, great.

~~~
NiklasMort
There were other issues which the new company didn't agree on. But I wanted to
leave anyway. In the end I followed this: "You can always earn more money but
you can never make more time"

~~~
thebiglebrewski
I think you made the right decision! Enjoy your life friend :)

------
ramtatatam
Recruiters who was interviewing this guy must have been all believing he is
worth it. Well done.

Have been interviewing people, many with 5+ years of experience and in my
opinion it is not too difficult to spot somebody who is not fit for the job.

So well done again.

------
Nursie
These are insane compared to the UK.

17 years ago I started out on £21k, which was considered pretty reasonable.
Two years later I switched job and got £35k and over the next few years until
I hit the 10 year mark I pushed it up to almost £50k. At that point AFAICT I
was actually doing better than average.

I'm now contracting in the financial world, earning well over twice that
figure, but while I can match the salary the various otions, bonuses etc put a
guy two years out of college in SV well ahead of the game.

I like the bay area, too...

~~~
richardknop
Yes, it's the bonuses and stock options that make the compensation in SV
ridiculous. If we compared just base salaries then SV would be ahead but
comparisons wouldn't be so silly. But all these sweet RSUs and cash bonuses
that are standard in SV make their overall yearly compensation really insane
(plus things like 50k sign up bonus... I got no sign up bonus when I moved to
London from EU). I wonder why software engineers don't get those kind of
bonuses / extra cash on top of base salary in London.

------
hobaak
Given with multiple offers, he didn't drive hard negotiation like this guy.
[http://haseebq.com/farewell-app-academy-hello-airbnb-part-
ii...](http://haseebq.com/farewell-app-academy-hello-airbnb-part-ii/) HN
discussion
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11552780](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11552780)

------
King-Aaron
Jesus christ, $50k as a sign on bonus.

I haven't seen anything like that in Aus for that sort of experience.

~~~
wwalser
If you have the flexibility, most of the companies on this list recruit
regularly in Australia for roles in the US. You may need to fly state-side of
an on-site but the initial round can be done in Melbourne or Sydney.

Tech companies love E3 visas.

~~~
King-Aaron
I may look into this, I'm in need of a change of scenery

~~~
dmnd
I'll be in Melbourne renewing my E3 visa in late Dec/early Jan. And maybe
doing some recruiting for my almost-unicorn company too. Message me if you'd
like to get coffee or something. My email's in my profile.

~~~
King-Aaron
I'm actually Perth-based, but I do end up in the Eastern States from time to
time, I'll see how I go :)

~~~
jacques_chester
My chance to try and swipe a referral bonus, then. I'll be in Perth for
Christmas and my lot were sponsoring E3s before it was cool. My work email is
jchester@pivotal.io

------
throwaway713
Wow. These are high. Anyone know what the numbers are for data scientists
nowadays? Also, how hard would it be for a senior data scientist working at a
large (non-tech) company on the east coast to get an interview at one of these
places?

------
xab9
Top notch devs earn less than the quarter of that money around here (I know
about the cost of living, but still). No wonder the US is outsourcing all its
dreams here, from faceplus to instasnap, from payeasy to dollarpal.

------
kjhsfkjldfhkjsf
How do these numbers carry over to non bay area places like Austin? I've got
an offer for 86k base, 4000 RSU, no sign on here in Austin for an L2 at one of
those companies in the top 5 and it seems like a joke.

------
leyth
Dude is advertising for LeetCode. He’s not too clever, easily figured out.

------
thisisxavier
Getting a 403 when trying to access the link? Anyone else having problems?

~~~
piyush_soni
Same here.

------
bagels
Anyone have a copy/cache of the content? It's down already.

------
TamDenholm
Can someone explain what RSU's are? I'm assuming its something specific to
being American and since i'm not i'm afraid i'm not familiar with the term.

Thanks

~~~
TamDenholm
Thank you to those that replied.

~~~
hiram112
So that $100k RSU you see in the list should not be considered yearly, but
instead something like 25% of it per year?

~~~
Redoubts
The author claims

> figures above are ANNUAL.

But if he is mistaken on the RSU part, then people might find these offers
easier to understand. (-e- but the only thing typically not annual in these
numbers is the RSU, so I don't think that mistake is likely)

------
Rainymood
These numbers seem high in absolute value but one must compare Cost of Living
(insane in the Bay Area I guess) and insurance costs and other living expenses
as well

------
joshfraser
I'm guessing he was working at Uber before. Would explain why Lyft wanted him
so badly and why Uber is missing from the list of companies he talked to.

~~~
richardknop
Could be. Also Uber pays top end salaries so it would make sense with these
very high offers as they probably had to at least match but preferably beat
his current Uber package (and potential counter offer).

------
Sevii
SF must have some insane margins to afford this.

------
Redoubts
For those who are incredulous or doubtful, what experience do you think should
command $150K Salary and $100K liquid stock in SV?

------
polock
Nah, actually it's totally not any meaning to me. Because the numbers are too
impractical to me. Whuu...

------
wwalser
In every single thread where someone publicly discloses rates like this the
comments are flooded with people who use all kinds of FUD to explain why what
they've just read must be untrue.

It's strange.

> Are these numbers real?

Yes. I'm not the author, but they don't appear at all unusual to me. SF's
developer market is nearly as screwed up as it's housing market (except not
really, the housing market is truly something else).

> Is this "normal"?

No. Well… yes and no. These numbers are real and you can get offers like that
too. But this type of pay isn't "normal" in the sense of historical norms.
Tech isn't normal right now. We have a shortage on one side of the market. It
will be relatively short lived. That doesn't mean you should ignore you're
ability to make unreasonably amounts of money for the next 10 years. If you're
qualified to fill the positions that people are over-paying for, you should
totally take that money.

> But this person had "special" access because of ${referral/previous
> company/magic}!

Yes. This person did have "special" access. But being granted that access is
literally as easy as talking to someone who works for the company that you'd
like to work for. Are they attending a conference? Walk up to them. It's
really that easy. I know. I've done it.

> No really, this person got lucky because they worked for a unicorn before
> applying to these companies. They got lucky by picking a place that happened
> to turn into a rocket ship.

Little secret, you don't have to work at a unicorn _before_ applying to a
unicorn. There's a phase after everyone knows it's a rocket ship where the
company is still hiring like a madhouse. You can join during that phase and
still get credit for "picking" a unicorn. You'll likely get a very small piece
of an over-saturated employee pool so the equity won't make you rich, but it
does allow you the pick of the litter amongst other top tier firms,
App/Goo/Ama/book/Soft, which all pay along the lines of what the author
posted.

> I have no desire to live in SF.

Yeah, SF is awful, don't move there. You can get close to these numbers in
some cities that have a much better standard of living. NY, LA, Austin (the
numbers are close but come down in that order).

Feel free to ask any questions about getting a job in a company like this if
you'd like. I find it mystifying that people consider it some kind of secret
so I'm down for sharing w/e people want to know (within some personal
boundaries). I wouldn't say that it's easy to get a job like this, but the
information isn't hidden. In my experience it's right in front of people and
they either ignore it or choose different paths because they prefer the
lifestyle that they have outside of these major US hubs.

~~~
monaghanboy
>We have a shortage on one side of the market. It will be relatively short
lived.

Can you support the latter claim?

~~~
wwalser
Good call. I can't.

I feel unreasonably lucky and make this claim to myself in an effort to
engender urgency and grace — I have what many want and few have and it is
fleeting.

The other two shortage that I was aware of during my primary education seem to
have been filled at this point. I was told regularly that the best paths
toward success was to study law or accounting. At the time law firms were
experiencing a lack of supply similar to the current state of software that
has since been filled. You can still make great money but you're going to need
crazy hours + prestigious education or unreasonable amounts of proof-of-
awesome. Similarly, after SOX there was an immense need for accountants but
that demand was filled rapidly when higher ed was successful in pushing huge
numbers of degrees out the door.

Education in practical skills for software development has been slower to fill
demand. I see three reasons, I'm sure there are many more: Software doesn't
have the same social prestige as law or accounting — the first dot-com crash
scared people — demand has grown more quickly than any other field.

~~~
monaghanboy
Thanks for elaborating, was genuinely curious.

------
skellertor
I'm getting a 403 for this site. Any one else experiencing this?

------
nickh9000
I am curious what would 10 years of experience would translate to.

------
akhilcacharya
These seem pretty standard for 2 years experience?

~~~
taneq
Really? Anywhere else in the world they'd be classified as "insane".

~~~
orjan
Exactly. Even the lowest offer is more than twice my pay, after 10+ years of
experience in Sweden.

------
crorella
I think the numbers are ok considering you have almost not experience.

------
yuz
Link broken

------
dingo_bat
[https://imgur.com/a/VpCJT](https://imgur.com/a/VpCJT)

Is this for real? This is Ministry of Truth levels of double-speak.

~~~
friedButter
They make you validate your work email, which is then linked to every post you
make on the platform :)

This will blow up one day.

~~~
dingo_bat
I really don't get it. How is it "anonymous" in any way?

~~~
ec109685
Other people on blind don’t know who you are when you post.

------
yuanzhen
Here in Australia there is no point even being a software engineer. 2 years
experience will be 90k base, I don't even know what a sign on or bonus is
because we don't even have them, and your wage will rise with inflation.
Inflation seems to be a fairly garbage number so I would say your wage goes
down each year.

There are plenty of other jobs that are much easier that pay the same.
Australia is not an innovative or technology-oriented or entrepreneurial
country. Some multinationals mine our land, that is it. It is a bit of a joke
country compared to China or the USA.

~~~
briga
Silicon Valley is an anomaly when it comes to salary. $90k would be considered
an excellent salary for most of the world's software developers. Even in most
parts of the US a salary like that is considered quite good for 2 years
experience.

~~~
yuanzhen
Yes, although I should say, 2 years experience and top 1%.

The thing about the US though is that in places where you get offered 90k,
house prices are about half what they are here. The amount of tech companies
you have in Tennessee is more than all the tech companies in Australia. So you
don't really get those types of jobs here.

------
holydude
Why are people so surprised ? US and especially US's tech sector is known for
trowing money at people. They are doing it in a hope to get those sweet Rob
Pikes of our time by sheer brute force.

------
senatorobama
Does this motivate anyone else to move to Silicon Valley?

------
everdev
This is nuts unless it's AI/ML.

~~~
flente
No, I work at one of the companies mentioned in the post. These are typical
salaries for devs without exotic specializations.

~~~
Redoubts
Yeah, same impression here. Though it seems slightly aggressive for two years
non-ivy.

~~~
akhilcacharya
Why would the school matter?

I thought this industry keeps crowing about how “school doesn’t matter”?

~~~
adventured
Because Berkeley, Stanford, MIT and Harvard produce radically superior
computer science students vs the average community college.

That doesn't mean _no_ talent comes out of community colleges. It means the
average ability level is far lower and the elite students are far more rare.

The school doesn't matter much if you have the ability and can demonstrate it.
The kind of grads coming out of elite schools that Google & Co are recruiting,
tend to have both the ability and the school. The schools, and the professors
there, help more often than not with filtering.

~~~
akhilcacharya
As someone that didn’t work at Google/FB and goes to a state school, Well,
thanks for the vote of confidence!

