
Ask HN: I'm considering trying a 4-day work week. How has it worked out for you? - stevesearer
I&#x27;m considering experimenting with a 4-day work week for a few months. Does anyone have feedback on how this has worked or not worked for them?<p>A little background with some of the reasons why:<p>-Not convinced I currently have 40 hours of work to do. Either I&#x27;m wasting time or not finding enough work to do.<p>-My wife and I have a 3-month old daughter and I want to spend more time with them<p>-Errands that need to be done during business hours (dr. appts, dmv, social security office, etc..)
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ibmthrowaway271
(UK here but...)

33 hours a week over 4 days (the max IBM will allow you to do in 4 days). Two
shorter days from home with an early start and early finish so I can collect
my daughter from school. Longer days on the days my wife isn't working (she
also works part-time). Prior to starting school daughter was at nursery and my
hours were 9-5 for 3 days (so I could do nursery drop-off and collection) and
one longer day.

Occasionally I work more than 33 hours a week but that's by my own choice.
It's not expected of me.

Been part-time for more than 4 years now. I'm happy with my job, I've actively
avoided career progression (as that would jeopardise the part-time
arrangement) and my boss(es) are more than happy with this and with my output.
They (and IBM in general) have been very supportive of it all.

Alternating days between home/office takes a bit of getting used to (and
organisation) but I'm into the routine now.

Wouldn't trade that one day a week off for anything (even getting back the pay
cut I took to get it), especially as it is "daddy day" during the school
holidays (and before she started school). Now it's guilt-free time to do
chores or whatever else I want.

We could both work longer hours, get a nanny, push for promotions and bigger
jobs and pay off the mortgage in 5 years rather than 15 but I wouldn't get to
spend any good quality time with my daughter so there's no point doing that.
They're only young once.

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notacoward
I haven't done a four-day work week, but I've been doing three-day for about a
year. I _love_ it. It's not so much that I work less, though I guess I do.
Mostly it's the flexibility I love. Usually I work Monday through Wednesday.
If I need to do something one of those days, it's trivial to say I'll just
swap out that day for Thursday or Friday instead. I can do errands or spend
time with my family during the day whenever I want, and not feel even a tiny
bit of guilt or worry that I'm falling behind. I can take a _six day_ weekend
without consuming any vacation time, just by shifting my days around in the
weeks before and after. Yes, I took a pay cut to have this, but I can scarcely
imagine going back to full time now.

------
justinlink
I've tried a few things:

For the first year after my first daughter was born I "worked from home" on
Wednesdays so I could stay home with her. Working from home consisted of doing
a lot of extra work Tuesday and Thursday and being available by chat/email on
Wednesdays. It worked okay, but I felt constantly stressed not knowing what
would possibly come up in the office and if I would be able to handle it plus
watch my daughter.

After my second daughter was born I spent a year working 12 - 8 so I could
watch the children in the morning and they could have their mother in the
evening. I didn't see my wife much, but this was a good year with the
children. I enjoyed seeing them every morning and having that time. Plus I was
able to run some of the regular errands you speak of...

Now I'm on to my third daughter and I'm not sure what I'll do when my wife's
maternity leave is over. I am considering going in to the office very early
while my wife is on leave so I can be home earlier in the evening.

I often feel that sometimes I'm wasting my time with the 40-hour work week. I
could probably accomplish the same in less hours each week but I like my job
and we're a small company so we need someone each day.

In a perfect world, I'd work an extra two hours each day early in the morning
and take Friday's off. But that wouldn't work with getting the kids to school
now (first daughter is now 5yo) and again my employer needs me everyday.

I wish there was a solution.

------
Boycy
Amazingly well. When my son (first child) was 4 months old, my wife & I were
struggling to keep on top of everything and stay happy. I'd tried working 9
days of every fortnight and doing longer days to make up for the 10th day's
hours, but that didn't help. (Bedtimes have always been hard with my son, even
still now he's 3).

I asked my then employer if I could drop to 4 days a week, pro-rata, and was
surprised when the answer was yes! I had a few months last year on 5 days
again, and it was still too much.

We're lucky enough to be able to afford the reduction in salary & benefits,
and I won't go back to 5 days if I can avoid it.

For me the benefits are: * more time with family. * better time with family,
because I have more energy. * more time for chores, paperwork etc * more
time,energy & motivation for my own interests * more time to cook good food &
make/mend things reduces costs mitigating the salary reduction.

More interesting is that - counterintuitively - I still get about the same
amount of work done as on 5 days, and I think it's better quality too.

I have nothing but good things to say about 4-day weeks and would love to see
more of it in tech industry (and others too).

~~~
stevesearer
One of the things that made me first consider doing this is the number of
things that need to take place during business hours like DMV, post office, dr
appts, calling the insurance company...

Even though I have the flexibility to just not work for an hour while I call
about why my daughter hasn't been added to our insurance policy, I'm wondering
what people without that flexibility do? If I ever have the opportunity to
have employees I hope these experiences will help me be a better and more
understanding employer.

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qumemx
My wife and I also have a 3 month old daughter. I work half time and live in
luxury. I moved to Mexico a few years ago and work remotely. Earn SF hourly
rate, spend $280/month on rent!

I think I get more done now working half time than I did working full time.
And I'm a lot more pleasant to be around

~~~
me2i81
Do you do it legally?

~~~
qumemx
Yes. It's really straight forward - go for an interview in the US with bank
statements for the last 6 months at a Mexican consulate, then go to Mexico and
3 weeks later (after a few local visits) you have your temporary residency
card.

------
jensnockert
I am doing 3-day work week (plus a day of studying) per week, so roughly
equal, and it has worked great. You're more focused at work, and you get a lot
of time to think about problems before having to sit down and do it.

Right now I'm working Wednesday through Friday, but if I had a choice of four
days I would have Wednesdays off. The extra day in the middle to take some
time off and thing about other things and get back with a new perspective
worked very well for me when I had the opportunity, better than the
concentrated block.

Right now I'm doing three days in a row because my boss thinks it's easier to
communicate that way, and I guess he is right too, it's a trade-off.

~~~
stevesearer
Interesting approach on taking Wednesday off. I'm thinking of working M-TH
with Friday off to allow for 3-day weekends for visiting family out of town.

~~~
Yadi
I actually do T,W,Th or last 3 days of the week.

It helps with my clients to do their other work in the start of the week.

------
Jemaclus
I'm a manager indirectly over about 15 people. We unofficially have a 4-day
work week. I believe one other person and myself are the only ones who work 5
days a week. The rest of the team "works from home" one day a week. I don't
believe anything really gets done on those days, though they tend to be
responsive to email. Personally, I'd rather we just take Mondays or Fridays
off and call it done. My company won't allow that, though..

The big problem from a company perspective is usually customers. Customers
want 24/7 availability, not 8/4 availability, so if you have a product that
requires a lot of hand-holding for your customers, a 4 day work week isn't
really gonna cut it (unless you have enough people to cover the gap, and in
that case, you're probably wasting someone's salary).

If you're a freelancer or run your own startup, you should absolutely do a 4
day work week. Whatever makes you happy, but as long as you get shit done!

~~~
marpstar
I'm in the situation of being both a FTE at a medium sized company, and
generate a fair amount (on track for $60k this year) as a freelance dev. I've
been getting busier and busier on the side, to the point where I'm wondering
if I have to choose one or the other.

While I was familiar with the 4-day work week concept, I hadn't really
considered that an option for myself until I came across this discussion. My
work/life balance has obviously suffered by running a business while working
as an employee, but the opportunity has been too great to say no to.

I know that the rate of work I've been doing the past year isn't sustainable.
I'm intrigued by the idea of working ~32 hours to try and balance that.

~~~
Jemaclus
One of my best friends does this. He's a FTE at a medium-sized company, and
his freelance work is approaching his normal FTE salary (which is already
considerable, imo). He's been so overworked with the freelance stuff that he's
been considering cutting it down. What he wound up doing was hiring a
bookkeeper (online service) to manage invoices, taxes, etc, and a virtual
assistant (zirtual.com I think) to respond to emails and such. He's been doing
both for about a month, and he's cut back his hours immensely while still
making the same amount of money. If you're concerned about having to choose,
you might want to look into hiring virtual assistants to help you out.

Good luck! Personally, I'm jealous. I can't stand dealing with clients and I'm
not disciplined enough to make anywhere close to 60K/year on freelance work.
Keep it up (as long as you're happy)!

------
dikaiosune
My situation is a bit different - I still work 40 hours most weeks but I only
do 4 10 hour days most of the time. Personally, I love it. I don't really mind
staying an extra two hours (and my evenings alone in the office are very
productive - imagine 2-3 hours every day with no email from coworkers), and
having three day weekends is amazing. Not only for errands, but I think it
really makes a difference in my mood coming back to work to have what my
culture treats as a holiday weekend most weekends.

~~~
douche
Completely different industry (diesel mechanic at a power plant) but this is
the kind of schedule my father has worked for years. It works especially
nicely, since his company staggers the coverage so that one works Mon-Thurs,
then Tues-Friday, so that you get a four-day weekend every other week. Of
course, this is an industrial outfit, so they are more used to unconventional
schedules due to the demands of rotating shifts for the operators.

You can actually get something done, with four days off. Two days is just
barely enough to take care of the essentials and recover before its time to go
back to work.

------
ianzabel
I wanted to spend more time in volunteer work with my wife, so I took a job
that allows me to work four 8-hour days. It came with a pay cut, but I was
willing to take that. My schedule is every other Monday and Friday. That means
I have alternating 2-day and 4-day weekends.

It's been awesome! Been doing it for about 9 months now. I love the time I
spend outside of work on my personal pursuits, and the extra time to spend
with my wife, too. It's great for taking roadtrips or taking care of other
things when they come up.

I've recently turned down a job that would have paid me SIGNIFICANTLY more
money (about 50% more) if I went back to 5 days. For now, I'm enjoying my
schedule too much.

It sounds like you have good reasons, especially #2. There's nothing like
spending time with the people you love. Do it!

------
grecy
I have a flex work arrangement right now where I do ~45 minutes extra per day
to bank the time and take every second Friday off.

By the time you throw in Stat holidays, leave days and the odd sick day, a 5
day work week is abnormal, not normal.

The headspace I get from a 3 day weekend seems to be an order of magnitude
more than a 2 day weekend. 4 day weekend is another order of magnitude.

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badloginagain
I worked at 4 10-hour day job a few years back. It was probably the best
experience I've ever had working.

The week is exhausting, but I usually work more than the 8 hours anyways, so
it was actually not much different from my usual work-week.

My big problem is that it takes me a day to "recover" from the work week,
another day to do errands/life-realted tasks, then straight back into the work
week. The extra day provided to me gave me the opportunity to actually have a
life- hobbies, personal projects, etc.

Additionally, having that day outside the weekend means there isn't that many
people around to bug you (although this can be a double edge sword).

------
jetblackio
I've successfully worked a 4-day work week for over a year. I assume you mean
4, 10-hour days, which is what I did. I actually staggered my work week so I'd
work Mon-Thur, then Tues-Fri, giving me a 2-day weekend, then a 4-day weekend.

Other members of my team had the same schedule, and we'd stagger our schedules
as well.

It worked very well for me. I loved the extra time. I don't have kids, so the
4-10s was pretty easy for me. And having 4-day weekends every other week
allowed me to do take mini-vacations and do some travel.

~~~
stevesearer
The plan is to work 4 8-5 days. I like the idea of staggering Mondays and
Fridays, though Monday is one of the more important days for work-wise so that
isn't quite doable in my case.

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Tasboo
It works. If you try to cram 40+ hours in those 4 days, some things that you
might have had time to do such as exercising or things like that may be
impacted. The benefits you list are huge though. I'd say its worth trying. For
some people, it's too long of a day, but for others they're fine with the
trade off. Personally, I prefer 8 hour days to 10 hour days, but I don't have
a kid yet and I have a pretty flexible schedule at work for appointments and
stuff right now.

~~~
xacaxulu
I would assume anyone looking at a 4 day work week probably isn't constrained
by the arbitrary (American) 40-hour work week, or wouldn't care to be.

~~~
stevesearer
Exactly. The hard thing is communicating the change to some people because the
appearance is that I'm somehow taking it easy and not working hard.

------
jameskennedy
I think the more relevant question might be, how do people handle their three
day weekends?

I've tried out all levels of weekly work hours. Too little work can be very
difficult to deal with. After years of trying out 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7 day weeks,
I've settled back to five.

Remember, not all of your friends will be available to hang out on your extra
day. Have you got a specific use for the time?

By all means, give it a whirl. My 2c would just be to find something to fill
that extra time with.

~~~
organsnyder
From the OP:

> My wife and I have a 3-month old daughter and I want to spend more time with
> them

I think that pretty much sums it up.

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schmrz
I assume that you are self-employed. If you are not, then I guess it all
depends on your employer.

I've been thinking of working 4 days a week during summer, but since I mostly
work full-time for one client at a time, it would definitely disrupt their
plans as well. So I'm still kinda thinking about it, but not doing anything
about it :)

I think it works best if you have a business that doesn't depend on you being
there all the time.

~~~
stevesearer
Yeah, self-employed, but not really in an hourly pay scenario where more hours
worked directly correlates to more income. If that were the case, it would
likely be more difficult to take a reduction in pay to make it work.

~~~
stevenkovar
Since you're self-employed, it's very possible to incorporate a 4-day
workweek.

You'll want to:

* Be more greedy with your time. In other words, start delegating more and place more trust in the people you delegate the work to. If you're currently a workaholic, it will definitely feel foreign to so fervently pursue having more "unproductive" time. Focus on the "big wins." People, especially talented ones, have a tendency to work UP to the level of expectation and trust.

* Spend more effort planning out the week on Day 1. Track what is being done, but focus on where you want to be above which specific tasks are getting done. Ensure progress is being made, even if tasks feel like they're piling up (this happens; that's life). Marry yourself to that feeling of incremental improvement, not how much "work" you're putting in.

* Disconnect on your days off—make your decision pay off. You're self-employed, so it will probably be difficult. The main benefit of working less is that your focus deficit will slowly turn into a surplus. It becomes easier to be ON when you are working when you are actually OFF during your downtime. Easier said than done.

A lot about working less is counter-intuitive. You see this culture of 80 hour
weeks and you think that's what it takes to keep up, but you don't hear about
how draining it is and how often people burn out. You are affording yourself
personal sustainability today, which to me is much more valuable than a large
payout "someday."

~~~
stevesearer
That is a lot of great advice. Disconnecting is going to be an important part
of the time off.

One of the things I'm still weighing is the need to balance "me time" with
"family time". Having a day off is great for going on a solo hike or
something, but with a 3-month old, it is kind of a dick move to make my wife
stay at home with our daughter while I'm off gallivanting around regenerating
my batteries.

I rent an office space so separating work and home is easier than it would be
if I had a home office. But I'm really hoping to treat it like a day off and
just not check in.

Maybe after I experiment for a few months I'll write up a blog post about it
and report back.

~~~
stevenkovar
Alternate week-to-week. One week, you can go for your hike. The next, you
spend the day at home and let your do what it is she wants. Maybe even plan
out every third week for you to hire a babysitter and explore the world
together.

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nonce42
I've been doing a 4-day work week (working 80%) and it's great. If you're in a
circumstance that allows you to do this (and I recognize that most people
aren't), I strongly recommend it. It gives me much more time to spend with my
family - I know it's a cliche, but kids will be gone before you know it so
spend time with them while you can. The 4-day work week also gives me much
more time (nonlinearly more) to spend on side projects.

A few disadvantages: First, I only get paid 80% as much. Second, it took a
fair bit of effort at work to set this up; management was supportive, but
they'd rather I worked 100% and it took multiple levels of approval. Third,
this basically puts me off the career fast track. Fourth, from a
social/cultural point of view, people don't really understand working 80% and
I find it's better not telling people about it (thus the throwaway). Finally,
I feel sort of a personal pressure to make the most of the extra day - I no
longer have an excuse for not accomplishing more. E.g. why am I on HN when I
could be writing a book :-)

------
6d0debc071
Worked fairly well for me (24hrs over 4 days.) I'd recommend using the day to
extend the weekend - I've found that vastly more relaxing than using it to
split the week into two chunks, especially on those weeks where I've got to
the end of it a bit knackered, and found it easier to schedule work when my
working time forms relatively contiguous blocks.

------
brudgers
Congratulations on the birth of your daughter. You won't regret the good
fortune of any time you can spend with her before she grows and goes.

My spouse worked four day weeks in all sorts of configurations for many years.
My observation is that the rhythm of the workplace makes a difference over
which days are better to take off. Sometimes Mondays matter a lot, sometimes
Fridays, sometimes Wednesdays, and in some environments weekends. If you're
off on a critical day of the week then you're always running a bit out of
sync.

There were times when the split weekend...particularly Thursday off seemed
really good. The three day weekends were good if we were going to travel but
Mondays and Fridays aren't always the best days for running errands.

Three days off Sunday through Tuesday seemed to work pretty well. Two days for
errands provides a lot of options. Sunday, at least in the US, syncs up better
with everyone else's workweek.

Good luck.

------
hashtree
Another approach you might consider is:

    
    
      - 4 to 6 hours of dedicated/uninterrupted work per day
      - 6 to 7 days per week
      - Wake early, say 05:30, and start work right off the bat
    

I looked at my own GitHub work history to see when I was most productive and
also read a book about how many of the most profound creatives worked in their
own lives. Both suggested such a structure and it allows/addresses many of
your concerns (i.e. I also have a child, need to do chores, don't want to
count hours but productivity, etc). The thought being many work best early in
the day, you only have so many hours in a day you can focus on hard problems
without wasting time, and consistency is a virtue.

------
st0p
Over here in the Netherlands, part time working is pretty normal. I've been
working four days a week for a couple of years now and I can really recommend
it. Perhaps you will be a little bit less productive, but definitely not 20%.

If you can handle it financially, just do it.

------
Yadi
I'm doing 3 days of the week work, and the rest of the week working out of
office if I needed to.

It's working pretty well for me, but it needs a lot of self discipline and
self indulgence to keep things in place hah!

Specially if you are doing some sort of consulting it could work well.

------
oxplot
I've been doing 32 hours over 4 days for the past month and I've found that
I'm working more efficiently and with more attention to the work. I think it's
the product of my subconscious treating the fourth day as a deadline every
week. In effect, I think I'm getting as much done as if I was working 5 days a
week, while at the same time getting paid for 4. If there is any merit to
this, I can't see why every employer shouldn't opt for a 4 working day week.

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wikwocket
I have worked 4 10-hour days for about a year. Three-day weekends are nice,
but 10 hours is a _loonnngg_ day. You get into a stride and don't notice all
the time pass, but then it gets to be dinner time and it's dark out but you
still have to work a bit more, so it gets old.

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kaymelow
I do not have any experience with the matter but I agree and support your
decision it makes no sense for one to be at work while the different offices
that people need to get done are open at the same time. It is almost
impossible to get things done. GOOD LUCK!

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ronyeh
Possibly relevant, in case you live in CA, USA.

[http://paidfamilyleave.org/](http://paidfamilyleave.org/)

[http://paidfamilyleave.org/about-us](http://paidfamilyleave.org/about-us)

