
Dear Venmo: Update Your Privacy Settings - Ours90
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2018/08/27/dear-venmo-update-your-privacy-settings/
======
ilikehurdles
I have never posted publicly to Venmo and I don’t understand why this would be
a feature anyone, anywhere actually wants. Who I give how much money to for
what reason isn’t anyone’s business but mine and the IRS’s. Maybe I’m not in
tune with the kids these days but the public stream seems to exist only for
people to mistakenly post to without realizing everyone can see their
transactions.

~~~
bepotts
I use Venmo weekly and my group of friends love that feature. It's a sort of
"social network" feature.

It might not be for everyone, but there's plenty of people that are aware of
the feature and aren't bothered by it.

~~~
moate
Earnest question: Why do you love it? What about seeing people transact money
do you love?

Like I get that this is another place to use cheeky emojis (Steve bought some
weed and gave his dealer a tree emoji! Classic Steve!) but just...why?

~~~
bepotts
_I_ don't love the feature, although I do sometimes look through my friends'
transactions. I guess it's similar to sharing a photo on Facebook, or doing a
"check in" when you're at a location: it's simply about broadcasting who you
were with and what you guys were either doing or bought.

Most transactions between parties are simply "drinks", pizza emojis, or "rent"
to a roommate. It's about showing who you are, what you do, and who you're
with.

~~~
moate
_shrug_ IDK, it seems like I have tons of ways to do that already if I'm so
inclined and have never wanted it as part of my financial transactions. I've
never understood the appeal personally, but I also don't understand the appeal
of high-heeled shoes or cliff diving.

------
csours
Idea Man: Hey boss, I have an idea for a new personal payment app.

Boss: So what, those are a dime a dozen.

Idea Man: Yea boss, but this one has THE SOCIAL!

Boss: OOOH, we need THE SOCIAL!

\---

How I imagine the pitch for Venmo went.

~~~
nerdponx
It's funny because the real draw to Venmo is that it's the easiest payment app
to use, transfers to your banker quick and painless, and you only need a phone
number to sign up. It's just that people didn't even realize this was a
problem they need to solve in an age of PayPal and credit cards.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Zelle is easier/more secure to use. You can use your regular bank app, it's
much faster than Venmo, and doesn't involve giving a third party access to
your bank account. And your money isn't held by the third party until you
withdraw it.

Edit: I can't even figure out how to do 2FA with venmo.

Edit again: Apparently it's enabled for all accounts via SMS to the phone
number, so that's better than nothing, but TOTP would be better.

~~~
the_watcher
Zelle requires you to know the right email address for the person you're
sending money to. Venmo allows search by phone number, name, handle. It's far
easier for quick transactions with people you only know a bit. I love Zelle,
but Venmo solves a problem better than it.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Zelle also allows search by number in all major bank participant integrations.

------
johlind2
People want to, and choose to, broadcast what they are doing and who they are
doing it with. This shouldn't be news to people. Why do people have public
Instagram and Twitter accounts? Some will see no appeal and are turned off by
the thought of this, but for others it's their way of life. So instead of
criticizing the app, maybe what you really want to do is criticize the people
using the app? Lastly, clicking "private" on a post is dead simple; the
company shouldn't be forced to change the default setting that differentiates
them because somebody can't figure that out. Come on.

~~~
debaserab2
People make Instagram and Twitter accounts for the very purpose of sharing
things socially. I don't know of anyone who uses Venmo specifically because
they want to post their monetary transactions publicly. The fraction of my
friends that still have their post visibility set to public either are
unaware, or have a laissez-faire attitude about it. None of them "want to
broadcast" their monetary transactions. We all use venmo because it has
ubiquity in our friend groups/social networks.

------
etherworks
Public By Default is an amazing investigation into one year of Venmo data
available on the public API
[http://publicbydefault.fyi/](http://publicbydefault.fyi/)

------
magikbum
Relevant parody video - Venmo CEO: We’re Fun!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFLztKBrLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFLztKBrLY)

~~~
bogomipz
"What if you could comment on a work colleague's electricity bill?"

This was laugh out funny. Thank you for posting this. Cheers.

------
gowld
see also: [http://www.vicemo.com/](http://www.vicemo.com/)

------
PKop
This kind of useless feature set is why Cash App is starting to eclipse Venmo
in usage. [0]

It's why I originally started using CA... simple interface, no useless social
feature. Just send money, boom.

Now they've added Bitcoin purchases (the easiest and quickest way to buy and
send to hardware wallet) and Boosts which (inexplicably) give you huge
discounts like $1 off _every_ coffee you purchase at a coffee shop. [1]

No brainer to use CA over alternatives.

[0] [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/16/nomura-instinet-square-
cash-...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/16/nomura-instinet-square-cash-app-is-
growing-faster-than-venmo.html)

[1] [https://www.cultofmac.com/532069/square-cash-coffee-
reward-p...](https://www.cultofmac.com/532069/square-cash-coffee-reward-
program/)

------
kerng
I have not used Venmo. Can someone explain the user experience around this?
Does it happen just by doing a transaction or is it like posting something on
social media with an audience dropdown box or something?

~~~
eshyong
There's an activity feed, just like Facebook. Whenever you pay someone on
Venmo the app will make a public post on your behalf, and any of your friends
can see all of your purchases on the feed ("Bottomless mimosas", "Sushi with
Jessica", etc).

Also important to note that your transactions are "public" by default, which
means everyone can see them, not just friends that you've added.

~~~
wruza
Do users really fill comment field? Why? Does it have embedded accounting
module or people knowingly collect and share their payments? If it is
accounting, then why free text and not categories?

I use local similar app and all transactions go with no comment, from
everyone, since there is no point to make such comments (and they’re private).

------
maaaats
Publicly show the data on the CTO's, CFO's, board members' etc use of Venmo.
That should prompt some haste.

~~~
beaconstudios
cue the addition of opt-out settings, and Venmo representatives immediately
opting out of the public feed.

~~~
nerdponx
You can opt out, the first thing I did when I installed the app was notice
that people's transactions were public and hunt down the setting that made
mine private.

------
eahman16
Mozilla should make all of their Firefox telemetry, Pocket ads and sponsored
content, sponsored Mr. Robot addons that automatically install, Cliqz spyware,
etc. opt-in before they talk about the defaults of other companies. Mozilla
have no shame.

~~~
jwfxpr
You're succumbing to the allure of what-aboutism here. Yes, granted, Mozilla
aren't perfect and have made some significant missteps (not all of which
they've suitably amended), and deserve criticism for them. But just because
they're vulnerable to criticism doesn't invalidate what they're saying here,
and doesn't make another entity who regularly handles more sensitive data in
less private ways less vulnerable to criticism.

Should this message be coming from another source? Yes, but 'as well as', not
'instead of'. Is it good for user advocacy that a highly recognised source is
promoting this message, even if the source is flawed? Yes, it is.

~~~
eahman16
You missed my point. To me, Mozilla is not a highly recognised source. They
are politically aligned, they don't respect the privacy of their users, and
what's even worse: they say they do and herald themselves as the saviours of
the free web and privacy and blah blah, while they stab their users in the
back. Mozilla is not only a "flawed source": they either don't know what
privacy is, or they are simply malicious. They have no authority to tell me
how to defend my privacy or to tell other corporations how to act.

~~~
eerwrq
No, they didn't miss your point. You missed their point. You're not
criticizing the message, you're criticizing the messenger. Maybe Mozilla
shouldn't be the one saying this. But are they wrong about Venmo?

~~~
eahman16
Yes, I'm criticising the messenger. I didn't imply I was criticising the
message in any of my posts. I personally don't care because I don't use Venmo.
I just thought it was hilarious, if not infuriating, for Mozilla to say
anything about user privacy.

~~~
sgift
By quoting a few high-profile stories and ignoring everything else Mozilla
does for privacy. That really is infuriating.

~~~
eahman16
What exactly has Mozilla done for my privacy? The effects of Mozilla on my
privacy have only been detrimental, given that I use Firefox and they have
screwed me over a few times already.

------
wruza
A couple of decades ago I could not even imagine that in around 2020 people
will create a petition for a _default setting_. Still looking for a better
name for this phenomena, since what I have in mind seems too offensive.

~~~
lukas099
Libertarian paternalism

------
bogomipz
What is the business case for their making transactions public? Venmo can
still mine and sell user data without it being public. I believe they can also
use the FB social graph api without transactions being public as well. Am I
missing something obvious?

~~~
awakeasleep
Yes

The only public thing in venmo is the note you attach. You choose whether to
publish it. It can contain anything you want. It doesnt have a dollar amount
attached.

A significant chunk of the population finds this fun.

~~~
bogomipz
I see so it provides "engagement value."

But if I send you money we could both read that attached message without the
entire internet having access to it. Or do I have this wrong and the the fun
is really in reading strangers transaction messages? If the majority of people
are unaware that these messages are public wouldn't this mean that the
"significant chunk" are a minority of Venmo's total users?

------
cddotdotslash
Next to every transaction is a drop down menu. That menu allows you to select
"Private." This doesn't seem like something Mozilla needs to involve
themselves in, especially with all the privacy snafus of their own.

