
How a CEO with Dyslexia and ADHD Runs His Company - sergeant3
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-a-ceo-with-dyslexia-and-adhd-runs-his-company-1494952535
======
liamtk43
As an attorney who has struggled with dyslexia and ADHD my entire life, I can
attest to the frustrations associated with responding to emails. While most
people are able to quickly, if not subconsciously, craft a well thought out
response, I spend countless minutes if not hours, fighting to find a way to
transfer the sentence I have in my mind on to the screen. For those who do not
have dyslexia, the best way I can think of to describe this limitation is the
feeling you have when you are trying to remember a word, name, or sentence
that is "on the tip of your tongue." It is frustrating and often becomes
overwhelming.

~~~
ismarc
I sometimes lose words. Like chair disappears from my mind, I can describe
one, I know what one is, but the label for it is gone and even if you say it I
may or may not recognize it. I don't have dyslexia, but a mental health issue
that causes it. The funny part is names do the same thing, they're labels for
specific people.

~~~
donut2d
I experience this, too!

------
gnicholas
In the LD advocacy community, there seem to be two types of arguments made in
support of entrepreneurs/leaders with LD (typically dyslexia and ADHD).

The first is the notion that people with LD have certain deficits, and because
they are forced to work around these deficits they develop other skills that
are important for leadership. The article makes this argument at various
points.

The second is the notion that people with LD also have direct advantages (as
opposed to the indirect advantages described above). These are often described
as creativity, being able to see the big picture, or having superior
management skills. Interestingly, this article did not make this type of
claim.

As the founder of a startup whose technology improves reading ability and
focus for people with LD, I am a bit conflicted about this dichotomy. After
all, if my software helps dyslexic and ADHD folks to read more like
neurotypical folks, then do they "miss out" on the indirect benefits of LD? If
so, perhaps they would be better off without our assistive technology.

On the other hand, if the benefits of LD are direct, then there would be no
tradeoff. A dyslexic person using our software would retain all the creative
and other benefits of dyslexia, but they would just be able to read much
faster than before.

I'm curious to know what folks here (HN + A11Y) think about these two common
claims about LD. Do you think the benefits are more indirect (like the article
focuses on) or direct (which the article does not claim)?

~~~
Helmet
There is absolutely no benefit to having a LD. Seriously, there is NONE -
people with LDs who attain success do so in spite of their LD, not because of
it. This notion that LDs make you more "creative" or whatever is backed by
absolutely no research and is mostly a bunch of feel-good nonsense.

A great reference for this is Dr. Russell Barkley:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Barkley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Barkley)

His Youtube videos/lectures are extremely insightful as well:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzhbAK1pdPM&list=PLzBixSjmbc...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzhbAK1pdPM&list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-
cvY)

~~~
LifeQuestioner
You realise Russel Barkley had a brother with adhd who died in a car crash?

He's extremely negative about adhd.

There has been evidence to suggest greater skills in other areas - the
research isn't enough yet as it's only a few papers. But Russel barkley always
jumps on any notion of improved skills and smashes it with as much passion as
he can. I can understand why he hates adhd.

~~~
Helmet
What? What does any of that have to do with anything I said? Why would a
trained clinical psychologist be anything but negative about a brain disorder
that, when left untreated, contributes to poor long-term outcomes in (1):

-academic performance

-self-esteem regulation

-addiction and drug abuse

-antisocial behavior

-obesity

-social outcomes

That's like saying an oncologist is really negative about cancer. There is
nothing positive about a deficiency in executive functions. There is nothing
to be gained by having a stunted capacity for working memory, being unable to
plan ahead or stick to a schedule, being impulsive to the point that you are
disrupting other students and or coworkers, being unable to properly regulate
ones emotions, and not to even mention the loneliness, social anxiety,
depression, etc that one develops due to being socially ostracized due to the
aforementioned ADHD symptoms.

ADHD is a serious neurological disorder that ruins people's lives. There is
nothing to be positive about (other than that it's treatable and manageable).
A clinical ADHD diagnosis is a disaster, not something to tout as giving you
some sort of edge up in "creativity" (because it doesn't).

(1)
[https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-...](https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-10-99)

~~~
LifeQuestioner
Just because a person is a "trained clinical psychologist, doesn't mean there
is no bias in their work. ALL SCIENTISTS - are aware they will have natural
bias whether they like it or not.

My point: was that using Barkley to justify something "having no benefit" is
not a good justification.

Looking at the negatives you've given here - these are all consequences of a
lack of help, support and self-acceptance - where a person has fallen through
society because of being different. We obviously get this a lot with adhders
because we are different - society isn't set up for us at the moment - but
people with adhd are NOT BORN WITH:

\- obesity, addiction, antisocial behavior, low academic performances(don't
get me wrong academia is fucking hard as fuck it sucks your soul and takes
your life away...it also takes enormous strength of character to persevere)

I'm not knocking Barkley's work - no need to attack me here - he's done
incredible things to make sure that adhd is regarded as a genuine condition
that needs treatment, help and support - IT DOES.

On Barkley his work focuses specifically on the deficits - even his books
focus on this - it focus on the negatives - again for good reason he wants
people to take it seriously.

I notice btw - you're fixated on there just being "creativity" as a positive
for adhd - and it being some disease (it's not fyi medically a disease) - so
i'm not gonna sit here and start posting the papers which posit the opposite,
that humanity needs these characters in order to thrive, or the recent papers
that show if a person with adhd is put in a good environment for them - they
thrive - because I think you're someone who will probably respond
aggressively. I'm not going to bother posting about the amazing shit i've seen
working with adhd kids either.

Because nothing I say is going to change you're mind. You sound mad as fuck
and upset about adhd.

And I can't be fucked.

I've seen how bad it is - about 10 of my members with adhd have addiction
issues - i'm under no delusion.

My Dad with ADHD died of alcohol, was in and out of prison. However - they
never had help and support or knowledge of adhd until it was too late. :(.

My work: researcher in neuroscience and a software developer, adhd coach, have
adhd and dyslexia, have 18 close family members with adhd(Nan had 10 kids, her
mum had 10 kids, huge family), worked with kids with adhd for 3 years, give
workshops on adhd, volunteer at a charity for adhd, run my own company part-
time creating tools for people with neurodiversity and therapies for stroke
and dementia patients.

I attribute my struggles to being able to better understand others with
cognitive deficits - and it means I run a successful business with it.

If there's anything I can help with - please let me know.

------
dahdum
What's surprising, and admirable, to me is that he worked his way up with
those traits vs founding the company.

As he says in the article, it's a lot to do with picking the right people to
support you. Though the cynic in me suspects by eschewing detail and email, he
had a lot more time for corporate politicking.

~~~
eksemplar
The thing about disabilities like ADHD and dyslexia is that some people
"suffering" from them succeed. To succeed they pick up a lot of personal
strategies that can be used for other things than managing your disability.

ADHD for instance forces you to structure your life. Because you won't be able
to get out of bed in the morning, cook dinner or clean the house if you don't.

Being structured is a huge advantage in almost every aspect of life though.

The down side is that very few people actually manages to succeed.

~~~
optimuspaul
What does it mean to structure your life?

~~~
mason240
For me it means being very conscious of organizing and structuring my life. My
keys hang in the same place by the door every time. I keep my work laptop in
the same place everyday when I come. I keep my bike stuff (helmet, bottles,
gloves) in the same spot. I have the same breakfast shake every day, which I
buy in bulk and is always stocked in the fridge.

It's all kind of obvious stuff that everyone could benefit from, but my wife
can be much more casual about handling details on the fly.

------
settsu
Some subtext in this article seems to be that the company was already a
healthy environment which allowed him to easily adapt and thrive despite his
inherent challenges.

He could just as easily have found himself in a company that wasn't as
accommodating or healthy and foundered.

Unfortunately it's hard to assess how bound to processes a company is until
you're well past the onboarding/honeymoon phase.

Or worse, in my unfortunate experience, finally land at a company light on
procedural, reasonably good at executing, and investing in improvements to the
development stack only to have that crushed by a supermassive org acquisition
with absurdly burdensome procedural overhead and have that overlay existing
practices rather than supplant them while still expected to execute not only
as if nothing had changed, but as if we should have improved thanks to it all
thus setting me back effectively years professionally and rendering my time
investment almost entirely void...

------
nraynaud
That's an interesting take. My shrink is not very keen on that style of
outing, his thinking being that unless you have an actual mental illness that
makes you disconnect from reality, you have to take ownership of your life,
and labels are a way to skirt your responsibilities. That does mean adapting
your life to whom you are, wether you have an identified quirk (ex. ADHD) or
some kind of non-pathological personality trait (ex. "I want to paint canvas
all day long").

Maybe we need more CEOs who never emails, maybe we need also CEOs who do
everything by email, so that workers have a range of choices on the kind of
companies they work for. The counterpoint, of coure, is that culture tends to
uniformise everything.

~~~
pseudalopex
The article is literally all about how Bassoul has adapted his work to who he
is.

Does your shrink have the same objection to the label "arthritis"?

------
tyingq
Paul Orfalea, founder of Kinko's, also has Dyslexia and ADHD.
[https://www.amazon.com/Copy-This-Hyperactive-Dyslexic-
Compan...](https://www.amazon.com/Copy-This-Hyperactive-Dyslexic-
Companies/dp/B001PO64KA)

------
rdiddly
Seems intuitive. You don't need laser focus on details to be a CEO. You need
some of the things ADHD people uniquely have, such as a tendency to try new
things, or rather to try _more_ things, than others might.

~~~
pen2l
> You need some of the things ADHD people uniquely have, such as a tendency to
> try new things, or rather to try more things, than others might.

Hm, people without ADHD can try a lot of things too... can you please explain
why you feel people with ADHD are better at trying new things? If you have
ADHD yourself, do you find this to be true?

Of all the successful CEOs, do you think there is a higher occurrence of folks
with ADHD? I ask because in my mind, these are the people who have been good
at a _lot_ of things: Jobs, Musk, Thiel, Altman, Bezos -- the most salient
examples of multi-disciplinary folks I can think of do not have ADHD (well
unless they are keeping their ADHD private).

~~~
rdiddly
It was explained to me in a talk I went to, which made reference to a study
that was done. Alas, it was years ago and I don't know how to find it again.
But you can easily reason it out for yourself. Let's say Person A approaches
activity X the normal way, does it the "right" way, and succeeds. In the same
amount of time, Person B starts on X but soon transitions to Y, and then again
to Z.

In the same amount of time, A has tried one thing and finished one thing,
while B has tried 3 things and finished none. People who are like A can't stop
harping on B for not finishing X. However A didn't even think about Y or Z.
Sometimes Y & Z turn out to be better than X. (For that matter, sometimes the
reason you're bored of X is not because something's wrong with you, but
because something's wrong with X.)

Being "distracted" is also known as being sensitive to your environment.
Focusing on X comes at the cost of ignoring Y & Z. And vice versa, too, but
that idea already gets plenty of airtime.

In an organization there are people who start things, and people who finish
them. Entrepreneurs and executives usually seem to be more about starting
things. Technicians, managers, organizers, they're the ones who follow
through. So IF there's a place in the firm where ADHD might not be too much of
a problem, and might even help, CEO is it.

------
wootie512
My former CEO had some issues with Dyslexia and focus. He had major issues
reading/spelling, and honestly all the employees noticed it.

Also he would kind of zone out a good amount while someone was talking about
something and get caught repeating something or asking someone to repeat
something.

But he was a very good person and always showed a strong interest in each
employees' well being. We all respected him a lot and trusted him with the
company. He really came across as a genuine person and we all just looked past
the Dyslexia/attention issues.

------
siliconc0w
Another dyslexic checking in. Was diagnosed in school but it's relatively
mild. My spelling is terrible which can be embarrassing in a business context.
Also am fairly useless at coding without a proper IDE - which is another
reason I try to advocate against pure-whiteboard style interviews.

------
rl3
I can't speak to Dyslexia, but running a medium-to-large company sounds like a
dream job for ADHD types.

Rapid context switching in the job description? Sign me up!

~~~
blawson
Agreed, now just need to figure out how to bypass all the other stuff on the
way there!

------
neom
My COO is amazing and I'm super lucky to have her, she basically runs the
business for me so I can focus on the company and the customer. I learned
early my dyslexia lets me think about the business well but someone else
should operate it for me. Teams are important.

------
jansho
> I do very little emailing, no Facebook, no LinkedIn.

I'm jealous about this. I'm a bit neurotypical but there's no way I can just
sit in my bedroom with my awesome project - "Build, and they will come" huh?!

~~~
rhizome
Ah, but you're not alone without FB and LinkedIn! You have us, here, and
Reddit over there, and...

~~~
jansho
Hey social networking for business is no joke! I have precious amount of quota
for socialising ... and spending a lot of it on HN, oh dear things are going
well D:

------
CaHud94
It always encourages me to see other people with Behavior/Learning
disabilities succeeding beyond the expected standard. I will say that as many
have pointed out, some of these traits do not have to mean a long lasting
deficit in ability or capacity. By learning to achieve the same results in the
areas that these issues compromise you develop new neural paths that can also
be used to be more efficient and generally better at many other areas of life
and life management.

------
kumaraman
I don't understand why this is a big deal, people seem to think disabilities
(not limited to ADHD nor dyslexia) are barriers.

People learn to overcome all sorts of disabilities all the time.

In my opinion, this article shouldn't single out that ADHD and dyslexia as a
limitation, in a way you can say the contrary, that it's what made him where
he is. I'm sure Steve Jobs wouldn't have been as successful if he didn't have
dyslexia.

~~~
rtpg
This is a common trope in the ADHD community. Namely ADHD makes us more
creative.

I'm for positive thinking, but I heard about a study that claimed skills like
creativity do _not_ go down once you are being treated for your disabilities.
I do not know the details of the study, though.

Unfortunately this trope has meant that I've met many ADHD people who refuse
to do medical treatment because they don't want to lose their gifts.

My theory has been that people with ADHD tend to end up having lives with
rough social interaction, and you end up living a childhood more prone to
"creative" endeavors like reading books or other activities you can do alone.

But for those of us with this disorder, getting proper treatment can get rid
of a major social barrier almost entirely. I'd recommend at least trying
medical treatment and evaluating the effects you feel.

~~~
mindentropy
I don't understand the medical treatment thing. Why is it so that everything
has to be treated? What do you define as ideal? People have different types of
personalities and it is necessary in the system. In my opinion it is better to
give time to people so that they overcome. We really tend to underestimate the
coping capabilities of humans.

~~~
Klathmon
I struggled with ADHD on my own for years because of this thinking. I lost a
job, I lost relationships, I lost time in my life that I could have been doing
something productive and instead was flailing around jumping from one thing to
another, the whole time feeling more and more depressed as time went on
because I must be the only guy that couldn't "figure this out" without needing
to be "fixed" by medication.

I eventually came around, and it's a night-and-day difference. The medication
is only a part of the system that I now have to manage ADHD, but I wouldn't be
where I am today without it. Not everything needs to be treated, but when that
treatment could very well make almost every single aspect of your life better,
to the point of allowing you to actually live a live, why would you encourage
people to not take it?

This is why we try to classify different types of learning disabilities.
There's a difference between "can't focus" and "can't focus to the point of it
being a significant detriment to their lives". There's a difference between "I
can't sit still" and "I've spent the last 6 hours trying to write a few lines
of code but I just can't get my goddamn brain to stop thinking about other
stuff for 2 goddamn seconds to even get an on-topic thought in, and now I'm
meta-analyzing my own thoughts instead of actually working just making the
problem worse and this entire thing is hopeless because if it takes me this
long to write a few lines what hope do I ever have of actually completing a
program". And that thought process continues for another hour or so
interrupted by a "okay just focus" and a few minutes of trying to get back on
topic before the spiral starts again until I finally start to make headway
only to realize that an hour later I somehow got off-topic again but this time
while writing code fixing a bug in some unrelated project, only to then curse
myself while dropping that bug only to stare at the fucking screen again not
being productive.

It's the former which is a personality and the latter which is a disability.

~~~
mindentropy
Do you have to be medicated all through your life or can it be improved by
slowly weaning off of it? Please do not misunderstand but the reason why I am
asking this is because of a genuine concern for people like you to be able to
control the thinking by yourself and not be dependent on drugs.

Ref: [https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/suffer-the-
children/201...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/suffer-the-
children/201207/are-we-adhd-culture)

Edit: Added reference.

~~~
Klathmon
To get the benefits of the medication, I need to be on the medication. It's
caused by a chemical imbalance in my brain, and just like someone who has to
wear glasses can't be "weaned" out of them, I can't be "weaned" off my
medication without seeing the effects of the disability.

I do only take it on weekdays for the most part (mainly because tolerance
builds and if I take it every day it can start to lose effectiveness), but I
will still take it some weekends if I feel I need it.

And I do control the thinking I do, with or without the medication. It doesn't
alter who I am, it doesn't change my personality, it doesn't make me "smarter"
or "dumber" or anything like that, it just lets me focus. Even my wife can't
tell when I do or don't take it, because externally it's that non-obvious.

It's a medication that fixes a problem. The glasses analogy has always felt
like the best fitting one for me, as neither I nor someone who has to wear
glasses are really truly "dependent" on the medication/device, but without
them we won't be as productive members of society. And we wouldn't be happy.

I understand that you mean no harm, but you come off as someone who doesn't
really know anything about the subject and are telling people who do to stop
helping. I would suggest you go read up on some learning disabilities, go read
up on the studies done and the medications used and the solutions there are
out there and the effects they have on not only the individual but their
friends, their family, their coworkers, their life.

~~~
mindentropy
I have seen first hand cases of dissent being suppressed by giving the reason
that if the person does not adhere to the majority point of view then there is
something wrong psychologically even if the majority is completely in the
wrong. By giving strong medication I see them suppressed of their thoughts
completely to the point that they are always dazed.

This is why I am always concerned about misdiagnoses or being taken advantage
of. For a person suffering from some physical disease it is easy to see and
measure but in case of psychological disease it is tough. Here I am not
talking about some developed country but in third world countries where
medical expertise is limited and hence are regularly cheated.

Hope you understand where I am coming from. I am not against anybody taking
medication if diagnosed properly and sincerely hope things improve in the
medical field that they can be off the medication and lead a normal life.

Just a quick question. How do you fair in labor intensive tasks such as
woodworking or metal fabrication etc? Do you fair better in those tasks than
coding? The same thing with physical sports. Does it help you to focus?

~~~
Klathmon
Almost identically in those cases. It feels like the "mind" equivalent of
trying to put to magnets together on the same pole.

I'll start, then I'll get distracted or get wrapped up in some small
inconsequential detail which feels like it has the pull of a freight train to
my attention. It also leads to mostly unfinished projects that i've attempted
to do before.

It also happens even during "pastime" stuff like trying to watch a movie or
even just hanging out with friends, and if I don't take my medicine for a
while, it has actually kept me awake before (yeah, i can't focus on
sleeping...)

It's like my mind is going 60 miles an hour but in the opposite direction I
want it to go. I can't sit still, I can't just "stop" thinking, and I can't
focus on what I want to do.

I get that you might be fearful of medically induced suppression or something,
but do a little research before giving your opinion on if people should be
taking medication. Giving stimulants to people isn't going to do anything to
help with suppressing them. And just because you are fearful of medical
suppression, doesn't mean that people should stop taking their antibiotics.

~~~
mindentropy
My opinion was wrong and I stand corrected.

------
maxxxxx
Richard Branson is dyslexic too as far as I know.

------
throwaway6546
I am a programmer with ADHD. I was dyslexic as a child, but grew out of it as
far as I can tell.

I have two patents in machine learning, and have been a critical member of
multiple "best of the best" teams at a few large software organizations. I am
considered a 10x developer.

The negative effects of ADHD are mitigated by medication and techniques you
learn with dedication over the course of your professional life. I take
Ritalin daily.

I am more creative than my peers. I also have honed skills in graphic design,
scientific research, and management. My passion is for building systems that
do things that have not been done before. Some projects are user interface
focused, some are strictly back-end processing. All have to do with solving a
previously unsolved problem. I work mainly in R&D. I am highly paid.

I not good at repetitive (busy) work, so I automate all of that. Automating
repetitive work is not repetitive. This is the only remaining negative that I
can't shake. I have an immense respect for manual QA testers, that's a job I
incapable of doing well.

The biggest differences I've found between myself and coworkers are my
capacity for hyper-focus, superior long term memory, and superior spatial
thinking capability.

When I set in on something it becomes an obsession. If I am awake, I am
working. I can't stop designing/architecting/debugging/evolving, even if I
wanted to. I am working while I brush my teeth. I am working while I'm
watching a movie. I dream about work. If I am not challenged, I feel like I
start to die.

I generally remember anything interesting I read instantly. I'll remember it
for years. When I am working through a problem, I have pretty immediate recall
of everything related I've read (which I can apply immediately). I read the
code of programmers I respect in my free time. I like to memorize
documentation as well. My short term memory is garbage.

I can see any working system I've memorized or written in my head, running. I
can try changes or new ideas and see their effects without consulting the
computer. There is a limit to this, and I write my code to limit the size of
any given sub-system to that limit.

My code has a distinct style to it. Some co-workers complain, some love it.
No-one can argue with its performance (or my speed in producing it). I write
using the entire language, not just the "normal" subset that everyone
memorized for technical interviews. I also use a lot of math. A final polish
phase to "normalize" code (minimize fringe concepts) is part of my work-flow
to avoid consternation from the maintenance team. I want everyone to be happy.
Bugs in my code are rare (I am meticulous and bug-paranoid), and I can fix
them very quickly. I do not write test cases, but I do write with the
debugging interface in mind.

I don't believe ADHD is a disability, I do however believe that individuals
with ADHD have to work differently than individuals without. ADHD itself is
just a collection of symptoms, and those symptoms are just differences. I am
not aware of a chemically ADHD test. Things that are easy for others may be
very difficult for those with ADHD. Luckily, things that are very difficult
for those without ADHD are sometimes very easy for those with ADHD.

If you have ADHD, it is important to find those difficult things you do well,
and design the growth of your career around doing them as often as possible
(so others will forgive your growing pain in areas where you are deficient).
Anything you're terrible at you'll have to fastidiously practice, or write
your own way out of it (make sure that your way is an accepted solution). I
keep my ADHD a secret unless specifically asked about it. There are a lot of
stigmas attached.

~~~
throwaway6546
*chemical

Edit feature isn't working for me.

------
MichaelMoser123
there are tools for him if he really can't avoid to write that memo; like this
spell checker [http://www.ghotit.com/](http://www.ghotit.com/) (I am a
contributor to the project)

