
U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants - aaronbrethorst
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-29/us-to-seek-social-media-details-from-all-visa-applicants
======
Someone1234
People I've spoken to seem more comfortable acting like this is part of the
current administration's agenda, rather than an encroaching trend which has
been gradually getting worse year upon year. For example this specific policy
was added as an "optional" (not really) question on an entry form before the
2016 presidential elections (I know, I wrote a letter protesting it during
public comment period).

My point is: Both Democrats and Republics have been complicit in allowing
these kind of activities to continue. And the American public would sooner
blame the other "side" in this political dog and pony show, than take
responsibility for this being what America's fear based society has brought.

As an aside: These questions are almost impossible for some of us to answer
completely. I own entire domains of email addresses and make them up on the
fly, I've also thrown away dozens of "social media" accounts in the last five
years for trivial reasons.

But the incomplete answers will be very useful when they want to arbitrarily
withdraw someone's visa, in the same way that medical insurance used to have
intentionally complex registration forms which they could comb through to look
for ways to kick people off after they got sick. So people that hold a visa
better not protest, write to their representatives, or otherwise stick out or
they'll just yank the visa and say bye bye.

I'll write in again during this public comment period. But frankly public
comment periods just seem like a way to placate the masses, both you and they
know this is coming, nothing a public comment could say will change that.

~~~
bambax
Yes, it's not Trump, it's the US. I will probably never visit that country
again, and I don't much care; but, I'm kind of sad for my kids.

That said, the world is a big place. Let's hope not every other country does
the same.

~~~
briandear
To get a visa for France, I had to provide my full financial details -- bank
statements, information on investments, etc. I also had to provide an FBI
background check. To get a visa for China, you can be denied for content of
social media posts. In Thailand, you can be arrested upon arrival if you've
ever written a blog post critical of the king. The UK can bar entry based on
the prior speech of applicants: rapper Tyler, the Creator was banned from
entry. Right wing journalists have been denied entry to the UK, even a very
popular talk radio host from the US has been denied entry into the UK for
nothing more than his opinions -- despite no criminal record or any other
"threat." Julien Blanc, an American "dating coach" has been denied entry by
Britain, Australia and Brazil because he's a YouTube star "pickup artist."

Let's not pretend the US is unique in actually screening visa applicants and
choosing to decide who can enter and who can not. I'm getting tired of the
self-righteous condemnation of the United States when pretty much every
country in the world discriminates in visa issuance. But the immigration
policies of India, Mexico, Japan, Korea or Australia are far less interesting
in this click-bait media world in which we live.

~~~
thatfrenchguy
"bank statements, information on investments, etc"

There is nothing personal in bank statements compared to social media
profiles.

~~~
paganel
I think that letting a foreign entity know about your financial status is
pretty "personal", at least for a guy like me it is. Back to the article on
point, I remember criticizing the US's need to ask for fingertips from
potential visa applicants 12 years ago, in a discussion with my former co-
workers. Since then things have gotten worse and worse in terms of privacy
(this being just the latest example).

------
alephu5
The USA is a joke when it comes to security. They've got all this stupid and
expensive beauracracy for coming in and out of the country that does nothing
but irritate people.

I recently flew through the US on a connection flight from the UK and needed
to give details of my employment history and my birth place amongst other
things. In Tampa I got interrogated for looking nervous, which I was because
we had landed late and I had very little time to catch my connection. My phone
was searched, my WhatsApp messages were read, and they asked me all sorts of
personal questions such as my girlfriend's birthday and the names of her cats.

After all this nonsense and their military-checkpoint style TSA procedures, I
was able to continue on my journey (after the almost 20 hour delay).

So if they ask for social media profiles and phone numbers it's just a minor
addition to the existing useless questions. If I wanted to hide something I
could easily lie and they'd have absolutely no way of checking. Quite honestly
I hope I never have to go anywhere near the US border ever again, I would
rather pay an extra £200 for an alternative flight.

------
cerebellum
Your wife forgets to list that yahoo mail account to which she no longer has
access and everything is deleted: family gets deported.*

You forget to list that LiveJournal, Advogato or Quora accounts: family gets
deported.*

Your daughter forgets to list that Pinterest account: family gets deported.*

Your son forgets to list that last.fm or SoundCloud account: family gets
deported.*

Your mom forgets her Academia.edu account and Mittens forgets her
vampirefreaks account: family gets deported.*

[*] or separated...

~~~
_acme
Under what conditions would any of these events actually occur? The government
isn't going to waste resources to deport someone solely for forgetting an
account; they would only go to such effort if there's another reason that they
actually care about to deport that person.

~~~
larkeith
The point isn't to go after everyone who fails to completely or accurately
answer, but rather to provide a pretext for the deportation of people the
government disfavor but lack a criminal case against; for example, an
immigrant opposition leader, protestor, or whistleblower.

~~~
opportune
Yes exactly. Laws which de jure make everyone a criminal simply give the
government an excuse to de facto imprison or expel whomever they want, and
should be avoided at all costs

~~~
PurpleBoxDragon
This is basically how all laws currently work. The prosecutor gets to pick who
to charge (or sometimes gets to pick which case to put in front of a grand
jury, though generally the process is so one sided that the prosecutor
effectively has full control over what evidence the grand jury sees and is
thus able to sway their decision either way). We would need to change the
system to remove the choice of enforcing criminal charges from all, but this
will be a very bad thing to do given current laws (just look at issues with
teens sending photos to each other, what would happen if we really cracked
down on all cases of illegal photos being shared).

The system appears designed so that once you are targeted, they can easily
crush you by bringing forth laws generally ignored for the average person not
targeted by the legal system. It needs to be fixed, but there is almost no
political will to fix it and any fixes will be a drastic deviation from what
we currently know.

~~~
philipodonnell
Kind of, but the legal system is tilted to prevent people from being unjustly
imprisoned, not to ensure that every guilty person is locked up. Prosecutorial
discretion and the grand jury process is part of that, but there is always a
regular jury as a check to determine if the charges should be dismissed and
the "default" if no one does anything is always no charges.

Now, its fair that in practice this can be abused to protect people in power
by not charging them, or to get people deported by charging with things no
jury would convict on, or scare them into a plea deal. But that is where the
political system is supposed to step in (most DAs are elected) and remove
prosecutors who are making decisions the voting population doesn't like.

But people don't vote (or don't research or don't care) enough to be an
effective check on the legal system like that, which is a whole different set
of problems... but my point is that these systems are designed to balance each
other, not so that each system is perfect by itself.

~~~
PurpleBoxDragon
>but the legal system is tilted to prevent people from being unjustly
imprisoned, not to ensure that every guilty person is locked up.

Not anymore. Now what happens is that once you are targeted all these laws
that aren't enforced normally are pulled out, and you end up with an insane
maximum potential time spent in prison. At which point a relatively light plea
deal is offered. Even if you are innocent, unless you are rich enough to have
money to afford a good lawyer, it isn't worth fighting. And even if you are
rich, the prosecutor can just fine tune the plea deal until it is better than
fighting the charge. This has strongly tilted the system now that most people
(something around 90% if memory serves) do not get their day in front of a
jury.

~~~
philipodonnell
Not disagreeing. You are pointing out problems with the legal system and
suggesting it be changed.

I am pointing out that the legal system is designed this way on purpose, the
problem is that the other systems that are supposed to balance it are not
doing so, and the focus should be on why the checks and balances are not
working, not designing some perfect legal system to exist in isolation.

------
ajeet_dhaliwal
When the United States does something like this others start doing it too,
sometimes seemingly just to reciprocate or spite. The US contributes so much
to the world with respect to tech, business, culture and science but it’s also
an exporter of increasing bureaucracy.

~~~
bambax
> _bureaucracy_

I wouldn't call it bureaucracy, but I don't know of a proper, better name.
Hysteria maybe. Not sure.

~~~
stjohnswarts
Bureaucracy is often the result of hysteria. The USA is hysterical over
terrorism when it should be hysterical over cancer, college cost increases,
and health care. It's all a product of the government realizing that it's easy
to fool the bleating masses with terrorist straw men.

~~~
opportune
It's not only the government, the media is very much a contributing factor
too. One small terrorist attack yields multiple days of coverage and exposure.
Terrorism is given an extremely outsized portion of coverage on the news and
as a result people think it's a much bigger problem than it actually is. But
it's an extremely convenient cover for taking away people's rights and
spending even more money on the military.

I've posted this before in another thread, but after 2001, less Americans have
been killed by terrorists per year than have been killed by _lightning_. And
yet think of all the money and attention that have been devoted to something
more dangerous than slipping in the bathtub, and the rights "we" willingly
gave up for that. It makes 0 sense

------
dboreham
One thing to know is that apparently the reason for having seemingly idiotic
questions on immigration forms ("are you a terrorist?", "are you a nazi war
criminal?") is not that the government is stupid but rather that they're there
in order to be able to deport someone for answering the question incorrectly
in the event that the government wants to deport them but lacks sufficient
evidence to pursue a criminal case. There's a blanket "you answer wrong, we
deport you" law somewhere on the books.

~~~
paxy
This is such a stupid explanation. Do people really think the government is
going to go "You're a terrorist, but we can't deport you for that. But look
here, you checked this form wrong.."

~~~
prepend
It’s much easier to develop evidence for checking a box wrong than convicting
a crime.

It’s also easier to arrest someone on suspicion of falsifying customs forms
and hold indefinitely than to do so on “terrorism” charges.

So this does indeed give law enforcement a lot of leeway than not having it
is.

So, to answer your question, yes.

~~~
paxy
That still doesn't make sense. To prove they checked the form wrong, you have
to prove the actual charge itself (e.g. they are a terrorist, by whatever
definition). That itself is enough evidence for deportation.

~~~
adamsea
You may have misunderstood - I think the parent is saying its the same
principle as, say, convicting Al Capone of tax fraud. Create a large number of
small, easy-to-accidentally-violate laws (think police stops and traffic laws
here), and then selectively enforce them - so if its difficult to prove
someone is a terrorist, kick them out of the country for incorrectly filling
out their Form WhateverWhatever1300B instead.

~~~
astura
They got Al Capone on tax evasion (not fraud) because he evaded taxes, not
because of some grand scheme. The IRS is interested in collecting taxes, not
policing.

~~~
kijin
On a related note, the IRS also requires that you report and pay taxes on all
the money you made by robbing banks, selling drugs, and embezzling your
employer's coffers.

Nobody who hasn't already been convicted will fill out those forms, of course,
but that's another criminal charge if the DA wants to put you away for even
longer.

~~~
astura
The IRS and the DA are different people.

The purpose of the IRS is to collect tax on income, not to punish people for
obtaining that income illegally.

~~~
kijin
Sure. But if the IRS comes across evidence of tax evasion, they'll be happy to
pass it along to the DA.

------
ineedtosleep
Pretty absurd that they're asking for all of this and:

> [...] In addition to their social media histories, visa applicants will be
> asked for five years of previously used telephone numbers, email addresses,
> international travel and deportation status, as well as whether any family
> members have been involved in terrorist activities.

I know a number of people going through, or have been through, the US visa
process and surely if this is required, applicants are going to drop.

Furthermore, if you submit that you don't have a social media account are they
going to assume you're a liar? Are applicants just going to create new "real"
accounts just to avoid looking suspicious?

~~~
chx
> five years of previously used telephone numbers,

I couldn't tell even if I wanted to, I go somewhere, pick up a SIM card, trash
it when I leave. These days many countries sell them from machines or
newsstands at the airport, this is not unusual any more.

Japan and the UK, both from 2015: [https://cdn.techinasia.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/04/Screen...](https://cdn.techinasia.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/04/Screen-Shot-2015-04-03-at-13.48.01.png)
[http://travelpal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-
content/uploa...](http://travelpal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/10/08095335/Simcard_Vending_Machine.jpg) and actually
even the USA, this is JFK:
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX0y79EWQAAGlfZ.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX0y79EWQAAGlfZ.jpg)

~~~
freehunter
I have the same problem with my employer's background checks... I'm often
required to list 7 years of home addresses, and while I'm not quite a digital
nomad and have never been homeless, I have moved quite a few times in the past
7 years. Sometimes to places without a permanent address, sometimes spending a
few months with friends. Sometimes in states I didn't technically work in,
which makes questions about discrepancies really fun. Hell if I can remember
all of them. Sometimes I've been known to put down addresses I never
officially lived at because I couldn't remember if I ever put in a change of
address form or not.

~~~
nraynaud
To enter the US I had to disclose my primary school address and all the
following ones. I don't know what I would do if the school had disappeared
before the internet was big.

------
jordigh
I'm not sure I'm planning to visit the US ever again, but if I did, what would
count as social media? Does HN count? Does my blog? IRC nickname? Github and
Bitbucket accounts? I've never had a Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram,
Pinterest or LinkedIn account.

The only thing I guess unequivocally counts as social media is my Mastodon
accounts.

~~~
aurelian15
GitHub is explicitly listed as "social media" on the optional question that is
on the ESTA [1] form since 2016. If I remember correctly, the wording is
relatively broad, so I would guess that HN and Reddit count as well.

[1]
[https://www.evisaonline.com/en/usa/esta.html](https://www.evisaonline.com/en/usa/esta.html)

~~~
freehunter
Since when did GitHub stop being a code repository and start becoming a social
network? Am I using GitHub wrong?

~~~
piqalq
What do you think commits are?

git commit -m -S “just having my 4th Oreo milkshake haha”

------
gph
What if you don't have any social media accounts? Are they just going to
assume anyone who says they don't is lying or trying to hide something?

Seems like a dumb policy to require details on a purely voluntary activity.

~~~
r00fus
I really hope it's not perceived or implemented as mandatory "at least one"
required.

~~~
fwn
Asking such questions on a voluntary basis is usually just a phase to reduce
opposition once it's finally mandatory.

------
fipple
So "Nobody forced you to give Facebook all that data" will no longer be true.
If you don't have your data on Facebook, and it doesn't match your government
records, you'll be marked as Suspicious by the secret police.

~~~
sneak
Pretty sure we have that in place already now, based on the leaked XKeyscore
rules we saw.

~~~
paganel
> based on the leaked XKeyscore rules we saw.

Link for the lazy: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-
secret...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-
program-online-data).

------
makecheck
Ugh. First, fake profiles are not only _possible_ , they are _trivial_. So if
you correctly state you don’t have a profile on X, and they find one
anyway...do you think they’ll bother to tell you why you were denied? No,
you’ll just be silently blacklisted for what “you” do online.

Social networks are also run by _companies_ , not the government. They need to
just stop expecting us to interact with a tiny number of specific companies
(it’s “big 3” credit reporting all over again, only somehow worse).

And finally, can we stop treating potential immigrants so poorly!?!? There are
enough rules, forms, fees and delays already; how many more things do they
really need?

~~~
sleavey
The US is not the centre of the world. I'm a researcher and even though the
immigration process is smoother for academics, others and I have long since
decided not to pursue work in the US. There are many reasons, but amongst them
are the populist government, draconian "America first, rest of the world
second" policies (that have existed since the Bush era, not just Trump),
dropping or stagnant science funding and (obviously only in some aspects) the
expert-hostile society.

------
colinbartlett
I'm curious of what the lobbying arms of major social media companies like
Facebook and Twitter think of this. Are they using their considerable
resources to try and push back against this? They can't possibly benefit from
this deeper reach of the government's spying eyes.

~~~
TAForObvReasons
That's where the next billion Twitter and Facebook users will come from:
forced participation tied to government services and benefits. You can easily
imagine a dystopia where a FB account is required to collect Social Security
or Medicare benefits.

~~~
wanderer2323
My pet dystopian vision was always basic income associated with a government-
tied-in Alternative Reality game, with mandatory in-game outside-world
activities to collect points that can be traded in for bonus BI or discounts
for everything purchased with your BI card or BI card cashback limits, etc.

With China developing Social Credit and US government interest in social media
data, the "in-game outside-world activities" might as well be bypassed. Have a
'good' Facebook history, or else.

------
bojo
Ugh. I'm at the tail end of doing immigration visas for my wife and daughter,
and it's taken a year to get here. The process is already somewhat stressful
as it is. Adding bullshit like social media to the already long list of things
you have to report makes my blood boil. Glad we'll be done before this ever
gets approved.

------
noarchy
To anyone who has been calling for regulation of social media, here you go.
This is what the actual result will gradually look like for everyone: you can
ask the government to "protect" you from social media, but it is in the
interest of government to work with social media platforms to do anything
_but_ protect your privacy. Don't think that _your_ country is immune from the
trend. The islands of potential protection from this grow smaller by the day,
as pressure mounts, both internally and externally.

Remember that major governments have been, and undoubtedly continue to spy on
all of us, either openly or covertly. You can #deletefacebook all you want -
you won't be able to opt out of your own government's spying efforts.

------
nacho2sweet
The social media companies are US companies. Why are they hurting their own
companies. Why would I want to have a social media account if every country
wants to look at what I consider my personal life. Having accounts won't be
worth it. Fuck that.

I already work at a large university that can't use anything hosted on US
servers because of their shitty homeland security server laws. So many cloud
services out of huge campus wide contracts.

I delete all my apps and texts when I go through borders as well.

~~~
TillE
> every country

Mostly the US and the UK, it seems. For example the EU Blue Card system is
generally quite reasonable: if you have high qualifications and can find a
job, you get a work visa, which eventually turns into permanent residency.

US and UK immigration tends to be overcomplicated, draconian, and paranoid.

~~~
techsin101
Usually when you screw enough people you have to remain paranoid. There is a
reason countries like USA, France, and Uk are always targeted whereas
countries like Denmark, Canada, Norway, and so on are never in the news
despite being easier to get in, same philosophy, and more wealthy.

~~~
_acme
Is it really easier to get 'in' Denmark or Norway than the US or UK? Perhaps
for vacation travel, but to settle permanently in small, wealthy, homogeneous
countries is usually far more difficult than to settle in the US.

~~~
klipt
Any EU/EEA citizen has the right to settle in Denmark or Norway, so if getting
in directly is hard, just get citizenship in another EU/EEA country first.

------
onthe_otherhand
I will offer the outsider's perspective. I didn't know which form it was going
to take, but I expected this for quite a while. What is really happening here
is a brilliant kind of targeting of the most tech savvy folks (most likely to
be prolific on social media) - you know, that pesky immigrant group who not
only easily make more than the median income of the natives, but the ones who
are most likely to be law abiding (and against whom the usual slander such as
"rapists" will not stick). This is the group which most infuriates the native
underclass in all societies when the society starts facing economic turmoil.

To all immigrants who went to the US on such a visa (e.g. H1) - take this as a
distant warning and make a plan B to leave the US. This story does not have a
good ending and it has happened too often in history. There may be a lot of
native folks wringing their hands and even offering their support (which is
welcome of course) but the underclass is generally too economically ignorant
to ever listen to them.

------
stuffedBelly
How to retaliate against someone you dislike while they are applying to
travel/study in the US? Launch a smear campaign against him/her on social
media. Super effective.

------
xvf22
While Canada is excluded (so far) I'm just not comfortable going down to the
US anymore and supporting this nonsense in any way. I wonder if it'll ever get
bad enough where this information must be provided before an overflight.

~~~
jacquesm
Do you realize that alternate airports for many Canadian airports are US
airports and that you could be forced to go through immigration if your plane
ends up at an alternate?

~~~
bpye
What would happen if you refused to provide any details to US immigration at
that point..?

~~~
jacquesm
Detention.

------
hacknat
I’ve gone through the naturalization process myself, and it’s already
offensively invasive, this doesn’t seem out of step with what they already do.

~~~
dragonwriter
_Visa_ applications are a far broader class than people going through the
naturalization process, and, while there may be an argument that the
naturalization process is excessively invasive, an application for
_citizenship_ does justify more depth of scrutiny than a visa application.

~~~
hacknat
Really? I think the opposite. The first gate should be the hardest to he
through, especially if you get a visa that is a guaranteed path to citizenship
like an H1B (H1B to Green Card to Citizen).

~~~
dragonwriter
There are no visas that are a _guaranteed_ path to citizenship (hence, the
naturalization process, which can and will knock people out even if they have
an immigrant visa), least of all non-immigrant visas (including dual-intent
visas like the H-1B.)

------
Havoc
US isn't high on my list of holiday destinations anyway. This just adds to
that.

~~~
curiousgal
It isn't on my list of anything to be honest now that I have lived here for a
while. I now realize that it's all made of nothing. With large salaries comes
a shitty life quality; crappy food, awful health care system, undependable
transit, toxic political/cultural environment.

Meanwhile, in Europe or even Canada, skilled workers are welcomed and even
though salaries are less, one gets an impeccable quality of life which is the
point of working to begin with.

~~~
Havoc
Crappy food? Surely one can get good food in pretty much any 1st world
country?

------
jgh
the effort to make the US even more unappealing to immigrants marches on...

~~~
avtar
Immigration aside, I would be curious to see if this type of stance has any
impact on tourism stats. I assumed once travel bans started being introduced
that conference organizers would adopt stronger preferences for other
countries as potential locations but I'm not sure if that's actually happened.

~~~
anigbrowl
The data you want are in table C
[https://travel.trade.gov/view/m-2017-I-001/index.asp](https://travel.trade.gov/view/m-2017-I-001/index.asp)

------
confounded
It feels good to complain on HN, but we all will be contacting our
representatives, and following the EFF’s campaigning, won’t we? Please?

~~~
whoisjuan
Yeah. That would be good, except you will get a canned response which more or
less implies that they don't give a fuck about your opinions... That's the
current state of affairs.

~~~
UenoHDTV80
You have always gotten the canned response. That's not the point. If enough of
us complain, the representatives sometimes get scared and change their
positions. But we all gotta do it. We all gotta vote too. It's a collective
action problem. Don't be a free rider

------
tmaier
This kind of behaviour is a case of why one should avoid hosting internation
conferences in the US.

Sad for the US, but important to keep in mond when organizing.

~~~
AjJi
FWIW, the Dota2 International[1] for 2018 will be held in Vancouver this year,
all previous editions were in the US.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_(Dota_2)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_\(Dota_2\))

------
cryoshon
>The department estimates it would affect 710,000 immigrant visa applicants
and 14 million non-immigrant visa applicants, including those who want to come
to the U.S. for business or education, according to the documents.

this will hurt business. this will hurt american companies. this will hurt the
country.

this will not catch any terrorists. this will not catch any serious drug
traffickers. this will not be socially useful.

i can't make it any more clear.

the more this country outwardly projects "we're a police state, and people
from other countries are unwelcome" the more isolated we will become and the
more backward our peers will find us to be, and rightly so.

~~~
scottybowl
I couldn't disagree more - this focuses on giving Americans a chance to get
employment before anyone else. What's wrong with that?

I'm a Brit and would love the same policy here.

~~~
dmode
Seriously? How does a visitor coming to see Grand Canyon take away a job from
American ?

~~~
scottybowl
My bad, I thought this was for work visas.

------
cm2187
Like if this week had not given us enough reasons to not use social medias...

------
trizic
Deleting your social media account would probably be interpreted as you are
hiding something rather than protesting privacy issues.

------
Idontagree
Doesn't some other countries already do this? I was asked about my LinkedIn
for a work visa in Canada.

~~~
aero142
Canada is very aggressive about searching for "hate speech" at the border.
This includes mandating that you turn over your phone and searching through
your texts, emails and any linked accounts for keywords. This is personal
experience.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
I saw this on their border security reality TV show, but neither I, nor anyone
I know, has ever had their phone searched visiting Canada. I've been curious
how often they do it. What were your circumstances?

If that show is to be believed, they aren't looking for hate speech. They are
looking for the person who says they are just visiting, and then has all kinds
of text messages about when they start their new job, or how they are looking
forward to moving there.

~~~
aero142
This was driving across the border for an extended vacation. I'm not going to
post every detail, but I had a vague itinerary and I completely understand why
we got extra questions. However, I hadn't done anything suspicious at all. It
is a question of rights, and as a non Canadian citizen, you have no rights
other than to decide not to go to Canada anymore. They were looking for
evidence of drug smuggling, proof that I could financially afford to take care
of myself if something went wrong, and "hate speech". That is what the officer
said. You may find this reasonable, but how thoroughly they search your phone
is entirely up to the officer at the border, and they have every ability to
just image your phone.

------
Slansitartop
I dread that this will become standard when applying for visas elsewhere. It's
already difficult enough.

Also, could this be another route for backdoor revocation of permanent
residency and/or citizenship? For instance, you piss off the wrong person in
government, they learn you failed to disclose your MySpace profile, revoke
your visa for lying, then deport you? It's my understanding that some of the
visa questions (e.g. have you committed war crimes) are there to enable
precisely this kind of thing.

(Posted previously to a dupe:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16710551](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16710551))

------
dmode
Trump administration has been increasingly hostile to legal immigrants, so
this doesn’t surprise me one bit. Everyday there is a new policy change in
USCIS designed to screw immigrants, whose only crime is working on high paid
jobs. I am on the verge of losing my work permit after having lived here for
12 years and working in high tech jobs in leading companies.

~~~
throwaway82729
Can I ask what your situation is? I've been here for 16 years and no green
card in sight.

For those claiming cheap labor, my employer pays me $500k/yr and none of it
was negotiated.

~~~
dmode
I have 14 yrs work experience in Software Dev and Product Management. USCIS is
claiming that I don’t have work experience for a PM job, even though I have an
MBA from a top school in the US. I made 300K last year

------
peter303
Hopefully the hotels of of the person instituting this policy will go bankrupt
from the large decrease in international visitors. Karma. That person should
think ahead a bit and realize the full consequences.

------
qwerty456127
It's time to delete everything and close our social media accounts. We ought
to quit this game.

By the way, do they understand people change? Immature minds are prone to
idealize all kinds of bullshit (incl. marxism and eugenics), daemonize whoever
and whatever does not fit in their view (usually extremely narrow to the
moment) and shout about this aloud but they grow older, expand their
understanding and change their views. How many people don't feel embarrassed
reading the comments they have posted years ago?

------
Silhouette
I literally do not know every email address I have used in the past five
years. I typically make up a new one for every business that asks for one.
Likewise for the occasional throwaway account on discussion forums if I'm
discussing anything controversial or where my own identity might compromise
someone else's position that they don't want to be publicly associated with.

------
BadassFractal
In that case, do you become even more suspicious if you don't have social
media accounts because you deleted them?

------
Nomentatus
The ancient Greeks were paid to show up and vote. If you don't do this,
irrational actors or those with very poor math skills will be highly over-
represented and this will show in the result.

But thanks to gerrymandering, your vote will very likely be moot. So that has
to be fixed first.

(This was a reply that appears to have become stranded.)

------
sebastianavina
what happens if you dont have a facebook account? or instagram? its a no?
because they can believe you are lying

------
chinathrow
If you apply for ESTA, there is already a field for your social media handles,
marked "OPTIONAL".

------
chx
Oh good, last year we had the interview of David Thornton, the arrest of
Marcus Hutchins, the enhanced pat down procedure from the TSA, we really
needed more reasons to avoid the USA, really.

------
nova22033
This is meaningless. Does anyone think TSA has the resources or systems to go
through the social media profiles of the applicants and catch the "bad guys"?

------
ilkan
All social media?

"Yes, I 'liked' a video starring 'Isis' on Pornhub 10 years ago but I swear
it's not what you think!"

Imagine filling in those usernames, hilarious

------
ojbyrne
Tourists and business visitors? I think the travel industry is about to ramp
up lobbying efforts. Or get killed financially.

------
therealmarv
So will this be the case for ESTA visas too?

~~~
tagawa
I can't confirm but according to the ESTA site[1], "an approved travel
authorization is not a visa. It does not meet the legal or regulatory
requirements to serve in lieu of a United States visa when a visa is required
under United States law".

Therefore if the social media details become a requirement for visa
applications only, then ESTA would theoretically be exempt. Having said that,
social media is currently an optional field on the ESTA form so the foundation
has been laid.

[1] [https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/](https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/)

------
kevinthew
Social media and privacy have always butted heads and I hope courts start to
side with pro privacy advocates

------
api_or_ipa
Could this policy possibly violate the ToS' you sign when you register for
these accounts?

~~~
saagarjha
Which part would it violate?

------
ksk
What if one gave somebody else's info by mistake? Very easy to do esp with
phone numbers.

------
floatingatoll
Hacker News is a social media site that should be declared voluntarily under
these rules.

~~~
tzahola
_Hacker_ News??? [ENTRY DENIED]

~~~
stale2002
Legit there was a tech bootcamp called hacker school that had to change their
name because the FBI kept bothering them.

~~~
iampims
I believe it’s known as recurse center now.

------
therealmarv
On another site I've read it includes passwords too. This is surely a joke,
right?

------
legopelle
I left the field blank on my ESTA application. Should I be worried?

------
zerostar07
time to make a facebook profile. because sure as hell i will sound suspicious
if i tell them i dont have one.

------
sirmoveon
Already happening

------
benevol
It's mind-blowing to what degree the country has been on a downward spiral for
the last decade or so.

I'm really not convinced people already understand just how hard it will be to
reinstall sane dynamics and politics.

------
elcapitan
"Sir, we have reviewed your git commit history of the last 5 years and come to
the conclusion that you would be gravely endangering the code quality of this
country."

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
I'm OK with making spaces (instead of tabs) a visa requirement.

~~~
rovr138
Got a new project today. Wasted so much time until I figured there’s tabs and
spaces mixed in there.

------
ttul
#deletefacebook

~~~
scarlac
This has nothing to do with Facebook. It affects all social media sites, even
non-US ones. It won't help you a bit to delete Facebook unless you wait 5
years. You'd still be required to give up the account info before then. And if
you ever decide to hop on an alternative to Facebook (like HackerNews, GitHub,
Twitter, Reddit, etc), you'll be required to enter them as well.

------
feedmeseymour
I'm OK with any country seeking private details from outsiders attempting to
gain entry.

I am not OK with any country seeking private details from its own citizens or
those who have already legally gained access.

------
kakarot
This won't catch sophisticated criminals.

But of course that isn't the goal; a global-scale chilling effect is what this
policy creates.

