
'Environmental Nightmare' After Thousands of Atlantic Salmon Escape Fish Farm - merraksh
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/08/24/545619525/environmental-nightmare-after-thousands-of-atlantic-salmon-escape-fish-farm
======
bamboozled
"The Atlantic salmon bring with them pollution, virus and parasite
amplification, and all that harms Pacific salmon and our waters of
Washington," Beardslee said."

I honestly think that the Joe Blog's of the world have no idea how detrimental
fish farming like this is to the environment, people in my family see it as a
nice alternative to eating mammals. It's sad things like this have to happen
to bring it to public attention.

I hope in the future they teach children to find out where there food comes
from and what impact it has on their environment before purchasing it. This
stuff isn't cool.

~~~
Pica_soO
The answer is 1/7\. 1/7 of the calories needed to grow the amount of protein,
that a cow needs. They dont need to heat themselves up. They dont need to
build large bones to fight gravity. Sorry, i know its not cool to be for
something nowadays, fish farming of all the farming, has the best ratio.

~~~
schiffern
_Aquaculture_ has the best ratio, but fish farming isn't the only way to do
it.

The GreenWave folks seems to have a decent alternative. They base their
aquaculture on filter feeders (oysters, mussels, scallops, clams) and
autotrophs (ocean kelp, a salad green which btw is the source of omega-3 in
fish), with the result that their farms _clean up_ fertilizer runoff from
terrestrial farms and reduce eutrophication. Their protein requirements are
even lower than fish farms, requiring 0/7ths of what a cow needs (ie no
inputs).

Here's an overview from the founder Bren Smith, who incidentally is pretty
funny:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjFPdTnclUA&t=4m20s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjFPdTnclUA&t=4m20s)
(skip ahead to 8m for just the farm description)

~~~
pvaldes
To be fair, chinese do exactly the same since 1950, when they invented and
polished the modern polyculture systems based in seashells, ocean kelp, and
crabs or fishes (and a similar freshwater version since thousands of years
ago). Culture of marine filter feeders is not exactly breaking news for
spaniards, french, dutch or japanese. If you can't resist the urge to invest
on them, remember that GreenWave is just another company doing the same as
thousands of current asian and european companies. Would be not much different
than claiming that a californian company invented wine in 2017.

~~~
schiffern
That's fantasic. Thanks for the correction.

Attribution aside, I'd like to see the technique more widely known and
practiced. The commenter was defending fish farming by favorably comparing it
to cows, but ignored shellfish polycultures probably because they simply
didn't know about them.

It appears to be mainly China that practices it widely. To the extent the
Chinese aren't scaling it globally as a climate-friendly alternative to fish
farming, they leave an opportunity for other players.

Some links:

[http://www.circleofblue.org/2012/china/chinas-marine-
aquacul...](http://www.circleofblue.org/2012/china/chinas-marine-aquaculture-
shellfish-industry-really-big-and-apparently-safe/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaculture_in_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaculture_in_China)

[https://theconversation.com/how-farming-giant-seaweed-can-
fe...](https://theconversation.com/how-farming-giant-seaweed-can-feed-fish-
and-fix-the-climate-81761) (discusses both GreenWave and China)

------
mikeash
"Department officials blamed the structure failure on high tides caused by the
eclipse...."

That's certainly creative.

~~~
colechristensen
Isn't that true though? The sun-moon-earth in a straight line when the moon is
near perigee _would_ cause unusually high tides.

~~~
mikeash
It would, but the tidal effect of a perfectly aligned sun/moon would not be
much different from the tidal effect of a mostly-aligned sun/moon. It's really
just another spring tide, which happens about twice a month.

Plus, the failure didn't even happen during the eclipse. It happened two days
earlier, when the moon would have been 20-30 degrees away from the sun's
position. That combination happens quite frequently.

The article notes that tides weren't abnormally high, and had reached greater
heights at some point in every month of 2017 so far.

~~~
SamReidHughes
Well, it being a total (non-annular) eclipse does mean the moon is relatively
close.

~~~
mikeash
Right, but lunar perigee will approximately line up with the sun about twice a
year, so that's not unusual either.

------
bbrian
Related: Public urged to remain vigilant after Pacific salmon found in Irish
rivers (August 14 2017)

[http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/public-
ur...](http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/public-urged-to-
remain-vigilant-after-pacific-salmon-found-in-irish-rivers-36030119.html)

------
kwelstr
Question is, why are they farming atlantic salmon on the pacific coast?

~~~
kat
Atlantic salmon are larger than native species on the coast, so more business
value. They also grow faster than than native salmon.

~~~
geezerjay
> Atlantic salmon are larger than native species on the coast, so more
> business value. They also grow faster than than native salmon.

You've missed the point. Of course they do it because it makes business sense.
That's the whole point of a business.

What remains a mystery is why on earth would they be farming an invasive
specie right in the ecosystem they are a threat.

~~~
Majestic121
You're answering your own question : they do it because it makes business
sense and they probably won't be the one to pay for the damages (not
personally at least)

~~~
geezerjay
> they do it because it makes business sense

That's far from being the point, and it doesn't answer anything at all.

I mean, I assume this "environmental nightmare" happened on a fish farming
business located in Washington. After a brief googling, it appears that
Aquaculture companies in Washington are required to apply for a commercial
license.

[http://wdfw.wa.gov/licensing/commercial/misc_additional_perm...](http://wdfw.wa.gov/licensing/commercial/misc_additional_permits.html)

Why on earth would a commercial license be granted to a business that involves
introducing invasive species on a protected ecosystem?

~~~
vacri
Primary industries have a lot more political clout than environmental
protection. Primary industries generate tax dollars for the government;
conservation consumes it.

------
pfarnsworth
The worst thing about this is that this company will get nothing more than a
slap on the wrist. And their larger fish farm that they want will of course
get approved, even though they can't handle a smaller one. It's incredibly
offensive how little government officials actually care about the environment.

~~~
aeorgnoieang
I'm not being flippant; I'm genuinely curious.

What's your ideal punishment? Death? Life imprisonment? Complete liquidation
of the company? Fines or wage/income garnishment for executives and mangers
and board members?

Shouldn't at least some government officials also be punished? I'm _miffed_
that they're not routinely punished for similar (or worse) lapses.

And what exactly is it for which you wish they'd be punished? Potentially
introducing an invasive species into the habitat of a protected species? Or
failing to do more to prevent the actual introduction?

~~~
pfarnsworth
Companies that engage in environmentally-risky practices should be fined so
heavily that they shouldn't attempt environmentally risky things unless they
know they can do it properly. This creates a great advantage for well-run
companies because it's basically a moat. Other companies that try it will fail
dramatically because they'll get fined into oblivion.

This, to me, includes chemical factories. Whenever they have a gas leak, or an
chemical spill, the fines should be utterly draconian. Personally I think a
CEO of a chemical company should live no more than 1 mile away from one of her
factories, but that's the environmental fascist in me.

Ineffective government officials should be fired with prejudice.

------
gallerdude
Wow, it's like a vastly lamer and far less exciting Jurassic Park.

~~~
francisofascii
life, finds a way

------
lucb1e
Somewhere in the middle is the interesting bit (to me at least: "why is
releasing fish an issue?"):

> Warren said his main concern is that Atlantic salmon could out-compete
> native Chinook salmon and steelhead for food and spawning grounds.

~~~
dwyerm
We need good science media to explain these things to the rest of us.

For instance, where I'm from, a failed float switch allowed millions of
gallons of treated drinking water overflow into the local streams. The EPA
pitched a fit about a hazardous chemical release. It is really difficult to
support and believe in the EPA's mission without an explanation why the same
water you drink and spray on your lawn suddenly becomes a hazardous chemical.

~~~
dzdt
Reference please? My Bayesian estimate is that it is much more likely that you
misunderstood badly or believed fake news than that the EPA was upset about a
drinking water spill.

~~~
dwyerm
I can't find a reference, unfortunately. This was in the Arkansas River
watershed, likely back in the 1990s, and so has likely not made it over the
digital divide, yet. Consequently, we might only have my memory of the event
to depend on. I will concede that it may have been local (Colorado)
authorities, and not the US EPA.

But my point still stands: Drinking water is surprisingly and
counterintuitively an environmental hazard. It is easy to conclude that the
local environmental agency is being irrational without good science media
explaining.

It is well-understood that chlorinated water causes fish kills:

    
    
      https://www.fws.gov/nc-es/edout/albefitfish1.html
      http://www.vita-d-chlor.com/specs/awwarfdechlorguides.htm
      http://www.fosc.org/AL-Chlorine.htm
      http://ntv.ca/chlorinated-water-killed-hundreds-of-fish-in-waterford-river/

------
mmphosis
[https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/24/protect_salmon/](https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/24/protect_salmon/)

------
jlebrech
we should release fish small enough to fit through nets, so that they outbreed
fishes we catch and the fishing industry goes bankrupt.

------
dsfyu404ed
As bad as this is I hope some late night comedy show take it and runs with it.
Lots of good xenophobia, immigration and west coast jokes could be made from
this.

------
nikofeyn
i wonder how this will affect the already struggling pacific northwest
resident orca population.

------
X86BSD
This is appalling. As an avid fly fisherman, these farms are disgusting. You
can see how sick these fish are at the local costco. They put the farm raised
salmon fillets right next to the wild salmon fillets. They are pale pink
compared to the vibrant rich red of the wild.

These farmed salmon exist in this huge pen of netting, where they swim in
their own filth and spread disease amongst each other and any wild salmon
swimming through the filth that washes out from the netted pens. It hurts and
damages the wild population as they spawn and swim through this sickness and
get sick.

I wish they were banned personally, but if humans are not smart enough to not
buy this sick farm raised salmon then we deserve to have salmon wiped from the
earth.

It's such a shame.

~~~
mikeash
According to the internet (always reliable), the natural pink color of wild
salmon comes from their diets. The most natural diet for farmed salmon would
make them gray, and that wouldn't have anything to do with their health, just
the fact that they'd be eating different things. But people won't buy gray
salmon, so farms include a pigmenting agent to give them color.

~~~
1001101
Yes, it's from the crustaceans in the natural diet.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaxanthin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaxanthin)
for background on natural and synthetic forms of the pigmentation.

I don't eat meat, but watching a documentary on sea lice in farmed salmon made
me lose my appetite for everything. Getting a little queasy just thinking
about it.

~~~
35bge57dtjku
How do they remove parasites from sushi and poke fish?

~~~
erikcw
Sushi grade fish is frozen at a specific temperature for a specific time
period to kill parasites.

~~~
kobeya
In the USA. Sashimi (sushi is the rice) is never frozen in any decent
restaurant in Japan, so the question remains unanswered...

~~~
pvaldes
If you find this is because it was farmed fish and farmer fish can't have this
type of inner parasites that cause trouble. Although is true than can have
more load of external parasites in skin or gills they are super-clean inside
normally. Much cleaner than wild fishes.

I bet that most, if not all, decent restaurants in Japan ultra-freeze _wild_
fishes on the other hand, even if they may not admit it.

~~~
kobeya
> I bet that most, if not all, decent restaurants in Japan ultra-freeze wild
> fishes on the other hand, even if they may not admit it.

They (can, in some restaurants or if you ask) serve the head next to the
sashimi and it is still twitching so you know it is fresh. So no, they don't.

~~~
35bge57dtjku
So the parasites don't exist in Japan or they don't affect people who eat
them?

~~~
stordoff
> The Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry has issued an official warning on the
> rapidly growing number of Anisakis infections linked to eating raw or
> undercooked fish. [...] The ministry urges consumers to keep the fish frozen
> below minus 20 degrees for at least a day, or heat it for at least for a
> minute in temperatures exceeding 60 degrees, which should kill the larvae.

[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/12/national/scienc...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/12/national/science-
health/anisakis-infections-raw-fish-rise-health-ministry-warns/)

