
‘Enforcement’ Coming at Ocean Beach Park Where Weekly Drum Circle Crowds Gather - mrfusion
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/enforcement-coming-at-ocean-beach-park-where-weekly-drum-circle-crowds-gather/2383251/
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credit_guy
So, after 6 months of Covid19 worldwide, where's our understanding of the
probability of outdoors transmission?

My toy understanding is that the probability of catching the disease is
somewhat proportional with the product of the level and duration of the
exposure. You can get it after just minutes of exposure in an ICU room where
someone very sick has put a lot of germs in the air, or after a few hours in a
poorly ventilated restaurant where a mildly symptomatic person has been
talking and occasionally sneezing two tables away from you. Getting the virus
on a beach seems astronomically improbable, except maybe if a sick person
kisses you.

Where are all the peer-reviewed scientific articles that summarize the
conclusions of all the tracing that was done in the world?

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elisbce
Based on observations, your assumption that people on the beach are: 1)
practicing proper and effective social distancing, 2) properly wearing medical
masks with at least a water-resistant layer with high enough (e.g. 95%)
filtering capability (not just some fashionable piece of cloth like bandana)
3) doing the above strictly for every single minute on the beach 4) proper
wind condition to bring the viral load down to non-infectious level just does
not happen in practice. People do not follow strict practices and bump into
each other all the time. So your conclusion that getting the virus on a beach
is astronomically small is likely invalidated.

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credit_guy
I'm not making these assumptions. I think it's virtually impossible to
contract Covid on the beach, regardless of masks or social distancing or wind
conditions. Why? Whatever germ load someone sick expels via
breathing/talking/sneezing/coughing is instantaneously diluted to
infinitesimal levels because the ventilation on the beach is very good. If
someone farts on the beach, nobody can feel the stink. If someone farts in an
elevator, people can still feel that fifteen minutes after.

But, you and I are simply guessing. My question is: where is the science? Why
is it silent on this? Why all we know at this point is still the pulled-out-
of-a-hat 6 feet of social distancing and "wash your hands"? Why is the media
not publicizing more widely studies like [1] that you are 18.7 times more
likely to contract Covid indoors than outdoors?

[1]
[https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.28.20029272v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.28.20029272v2)

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ops
I live in OB, and the idea of any type of enforcement is laughable. I can go
down to the area in the article any time, day or night, and buy pot, meth,
cocaine, LSD, DMT, mushrooms, heroin, ketamine, etc in less than 10 minutes.
If they can't enforce the drug laws, how are they going to do with the mask
laws?

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linksnapzz
Yeah, I used to live down the street from there; and despite being the most
square-looking person ever, people would try to buy pot, meth, etc. off of me.
City was pretty naive to put that fence up and think it would last more than a
few hours. I suppose they could put cyclone fence up, but that would just mean
drum circles in front of the police substation trailer at the base of the
pier. (On the steps of said trailer, pot is also sold.)

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exabrial
Let people worship as they choose. Adults have the right to choose their own
risk.

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everybodyknows
After they leave the drum circle, they transfer the health risk to all the
store clerks and medical personnel they approach. If they end up in the
hospital, they transfer the financial burden to the insurance, hospital, and
public aid systems, at a rate of however many thousands of dollars per day.

They have no right to do this to the rest of us.

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ta17711771
I agree with you.

As a human rights advocate, though, curious: where is the line, in everyone's
mind? Can we use the law on people who don't wash their hands after they use
the restroom? Etc

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goldenManatee
Your response is to do nothing because of an extreme edge case?

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SpicyLemonZest
A law that everyone has to wash their hands after using the restroom seems
_less_ severe, to me, than a law that nobody's allowed to gather in public.

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comex
I agree in principle. That said, a law about washing hands would be impossible
to actually enforce without some kind of highly intrusive surveillance, which
itself would be a severe downside. But a law that wasn’t actively enforced and
only existed so posters could say “wash your hands - it’s the law!” would be…
fine, IMO… though I doubt it would produce much if any actual increase in
handwashing.

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vondur
Everyone knows to get rid of hippies, break out the Slayer!

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mindfulhack
Then in addition to committing murder you would have prevented the creation of
Apple Computer. Read Steve Jobs' biography by Walter Isaacson to see just how
'hippie' he was while changing the world.

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vondur
Sorry, it’s a Southpark episode reference, not dissing Apple

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SamReidHughes
The curve is flattened. It’s better for the virus to burn through young people
in the summer, unless you want to pretend we won’t hit herd immunity.

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triceratops
As a young person, I don't want the virus to "burn through" me and my friends.

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SamReidHughes
Well guess what, it's not going to magically disappear.

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triceratops
Definitely won't disappear with an attitude like "It’s better for the virus to
burn through young people".

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SamReidHughes
Yes it will, because that’s how immunity works.

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triceratops
That's not magic. And it costs hundreds of thousands of lives.

