
Arctic sea ice reaches second lowest minimum in satellite record - jesperlang
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2019/09/arctic-sea-ice-reaches-second-lowest-minimum-in-satellite-record/
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ent101
In a few words how can I convert a climate-change denier to a believer? and
vice versa...

I just want see what the short, compelling arguments of either side are.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
"What evidence would you need to see to be convinced that climate change is
indeed happening and is a threat to humanity?"

~~~
scarygliders
"What proof do you have that humans are _causing_ the climate to change, a
climate which has been changing ever since the formation of the Earth 4.5
billion years ago? And what proof do you have that homo sapiens - who have
only been on this planet for roughly 200 thousand years, of which have only
been embarking in Industry for around 200 of those - can have any effect
whatsoever in somehow stopping the climate from changing? Lastly, what
definitive proof is there that the trace gas CO2, comprising of 0.04% of the
Earth's atmosphere - of which humans are respnsible for a mere 0.01% of that -
is the primary temperature control knob of this planet?"

The CO2/CAGW/Climate Change alarmism Emperor has no clothes!

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Wow. Just to be clear, I'm not putting the burden of proof on you. I accept
that the burden is on the side arguing that anthropogenic climate change is
real.

I'm simply asking you what standard of proof you would require. What _would_
convince you?

EDIT: for anyone else wondering about the "0.04%" factoid thrown out, this
article is a pretty good explanation of how the greenhouse effect works and
how a trace gas can have a noticeable affect on global temperature:
[https://www.sciencealert.com/co2-is-only-a-tiny-part-of-
our-...](https://www.sciencealert.com/co2-is-only-a-tiny-part-of-our-
atmosphere-but-it-has-a-huge-influence-here-s-why)

~~~
scarygliders
Yes, let's hear the real story about CO2 shall we?

[https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/a-story-of-
co2-data-m...](https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/a-story-of-co2-data-
manipulation/)

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Sigh...why is it so hard for you to answer this question?

In a world where you are _convinced by the evidence_ that anthropogenic
climate change is real and poses a grave threat to humanity over the next
century, what does that evidence look like?

I'm not _remotely_ qualified to read your long article and try and either
debunk it or determine that yes, it does indeed have real scientific merit
despite its disagreement with the overwhelming consensus by experts in the
relevant fields. Nor do I particularly feel the need to. I lump anthropogenic
climate change in with evolution: I don't have the expertise to evaluate the
evidence myself but it seems like virtually everyone who does is on one side
of the argument. That's good enough for me.

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jesperlang
What's even more worrying is that almost all "old" ice is gone. Extent only
measures ocean area with at least 15% ice.

[https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4750](https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4750)

Scary times ahead!

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HocusLocus
A platform for Earth defense from asteroids ranks higher on my list. You
couldn't believe what that would do to the environment.

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tectonic
Why was this flagged?

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xwdv
Looks like there’s little to nothing we can do to stop the effects of climate
change these days. Might as well just give up and accept the inevitable, a lot
less stressful that way.

~~~
Lutzb
As much as I want to disagree with you, I too have this bleak feeling of
inevitable doom. As individuals there is nothing we can do, all the personal
changes are dwarfed by the overwhelming magnitude of the problems ahead. In my
younger years I would have thought that while the problems seem
insurmountable, we as global society will find a solution. The older I get I
am convinced that there is almost no political solution that won't be opposed
by either big money or irrational nationalism blocking any kind of global
solution.

 _sigh_

~~~
taborj
I would posit that at least _some_ of your feelings are due to the nature of
information dissemination by today's highly connected, revenue-driven media.
Saying everything is fine, or at least not terrible, has never brought as many
eyeballs to a story as claiming the sky is falling.

Not saying the sky is or isn't falling, just that we have so much ready access
to so many sources of information, each with a vested interest in getting you
to come view their content - and what better way than highlighting the doom
and gloom? - that there is the real situation of bad news overload. That, in
turn, makes things seem worse than they are.

It's no wonder the suicide rates are increasing.

