
Ask HN: Start a charity-driven staffing firm? - throwaway322
TL;DR a recent health scare has me reevaluating what I want out of life.  I reason my wife and I can run a boutique staffing agency placing primarily software developers in the NYC area drawing salaries of up to 75k each, pay our overhead and together aim to donate 100k-200k+ as a business yearly.<p>I’m a veteran of the NYC IT staffing market but recent years have me disillusioned with the business and just doing some consulting work and taking some down time.  A recent health scare really makes me want to make some big life changes that include focusing on work that matters.  I think we can reduce our family spending to the point where we could take a family pay cut but do work we find fulfilling that ultimately makes a difference in the world.  In my mind the goal would be to somehow have a formula that gives 50% of every placement to charity and the rest to cover payroll and overhead until we reach our 150k total salaries at which time everything short of overhead would go to charity.  If our message resonated with companies and candidates to a point where our daily focus could be service rather than sales the amount we could give away (as two normal working people) could be incredible.<p>Question to the HN crowd:  Am I crazy, could this work?
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randycupertino
Have you seen the movie Dave from the 1990s about a guy who looks like the
President and ends up being the stand-in for the President when he has a
stroke? He runs a staffing agency who helps people down on their luck get
jobs. Anyways, your thread title made me think of that.

I would say instead of just giving away the $$ to charity, why don't you put
it towards helping low-income people have career advancement, or training
homeless vets, or ex-cons?

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barry-cotter
You are crazy and this could work. However, if you’re going to run a staffing
agency there are multiple ways you can do good with it. There’s only so much
money to go round and your customers are not going to pay you more money
because you donate a lot of money to charity though it may help with marketing
and sales. Ultimately the money is either going to come from you or your
employees. You’ve decided it’s going to come from you, which is greasy. You do
what you want with your money. Staff are not going to work at below market
rates for a company just because the owners donate a lot of money.

There is absolutely no way you will be able to skimp on sales and focus on
service. Real businesses pay people large sums because they think they’re
worth the price, not out of the kindness of their hearts. If you want to
donate a lot of money you’re going to be doing the same kind of work as now
and donating more money. Services don’t sell themselves.

If running a staffing agency and donating money doesn’t sound super rewarding
all by itself consider taking on people who need a break, training them and
sending them out into the working world until they move on.

Look at what Lambda School and Jessica Livingston are doing.
[http://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/women-learn-to-
program-t...](http://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/women-learn-to-program-this-
summer)

Could you sponsor one person a quarter to do this, to come to your office
while doing it and get paid, and then work for you for nine months after?

Or you could work for a company or organisation you actually thought was
making a positive difference in the world. I think Lambda School is awesome
because they’re trying to make a Lin education that leads to a good job
available everywhere. I’m sure you can think of _some_ company you admire.

Or look at the 80,000 hours job board, the product of some smart people
looking for jobs that they think will make a big positive impact.

[https://80000hours.org/job-board](https://80000hours.org/job-board)

~~~
frlnc_throwaway
I also used to be interested in effective altruism.

They're mostly smart people, and I respect them for sticking to their
principles.

However, I don't think working at something you feel neutral, or negative,
towards, and then donating the bulk of your income, is a path to personal
happiness.

You need to do more thinking and reflection on your personal values,
priorities, and the work you personally find fulfilling, meaningful,
worthwhile. It can take years of thinking to figure out your purpose, but it
can be done.

Try this as a place to start:

[https://www.romangelperin.com/shop/self-actualizing-
people-i...](https://www.romangelperin.com/shop/self-actualizing-people-in-
history-preorder)

Or maybe this: [http://aristotleadventure.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-
centr...](http://aristotleadventure.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-central-
purpose-in-life.html)

~~~
barry-cotter
I suggest you take a look at the 80,000 hours website. Earning to give has
become less emphasised as 80,000 Hours has done more research and the broader
effective altruist community has grown, in experience, numbers and expertise.

[https://80000hours.org/articles/comparative-
advantage/#shoul...](https://80000hours.org/articles/comparative-
advantage/#should-i-earn-to-give-or-do-direct-work)

> Should I earn to give or do direct work?

> We often advise people who say: “I have high earning potential, so I have
> good personal fit with earning to give, so I should earn to give”.

> But this doesn’t follow. We’re in a situation where we need the right ratio
> of funders to direct workers, so what matters is comparative advantage. This
> means you need to compare your earning potential to other people in the
> community who might do direct work or earn to give.

> If they have even higher earning potential, then you might have a
> comparative advantage in direct work, even though you have high earning
> potential compared to people in general.

> Cases like this might be common. There are people doing direct work in the
> community who could donate over $500,000 per year earning to give. So, even
> if you have earning potential this high, you might still have a comparative
> advantage in direct work.

> Of course, some people’s comparative advantage will be earning to give. If
> it looks like you might be less good than existing people doing direct work,
> or you have struggled to find work in direct work, we think that earning to
> give is a great alternative.

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danhilltech
Yea can totally work - it gets at a lot in the zeitgeist in tech recently. I
left Airbnb and started [https://alma.app](https://alma.app) for similar
reasons. We help companies with strong social missions (and their employees
and their customers) connect with charities that share the same broad goals.

Many people I worked with would I think not only want to work with an agency
that supports charities, but you could go a step further and also help those
employees use their skills at the charities to volunteer, the companies
support them too.

Always happy to talk, just ping me a note!

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PopeDotNinja
To me, business is business. When a business gives to charity, I usually see
that as a gimmick dreamed up by their marketing department. I would rather
make more or pay less, and then donate my own money to charity. No I guess I'm
not a fan of your idea, but don't let me stop you from trying!

~~~
viraptor
I think it's a gimmick if you decide to do it later for marketing reasons. If
it's there from the beginning as a representation of company's values, it's
something different. (Better?)

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Tempest1981
Seems like you need to be well-known, and/or have a deep network of contacts.
Some way to get your name out there.

And I suspect that candidates have little loyalty to staffing agencies -- vs
more of a broadcast. So you need to keep hustling.

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ogoldberg
I work at [http://givelively.org](http://givelively.org) for the same reasons.
I want my work to be about more than making someone profit, so I work at a
place that doesn't make profit. For what it's worth, the fact that the mission
of your organization would be aligned with ours would certainly be very
attractive to me as a hiring manager. I would furthermore be encouraged by the
idea that your pool of candidates may also be of a similar mindset. Of course
I am an exception. Most hiring managers may not see things the way I do. But
nonetheless, I want to share my words of encouragement and I hope you'll reach
out to me if you end up moving forward.

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throwaway322
Thanks to all who replied to a stranger on the internet thinking a crazy idea
out loud. I appreciate the links that were shared and will definitely take a
deep dive into them. There seem to be a few agencies out there in the temp
space helping out those looking to get back into the job market (ex-cons,
homeless, etc.) which is great. Temp placement, even at the lower end of the
pay scale, takes a rather large amount of capital to cover payroll and what
I’m guessing would be very high insurance costs (manual labor, ex-felon, etc.)
Also, probably more than 1 or 2 people could handle from an hours in the day
standpoint without administrative/recruiting help. I feel like the big firms
probably give such marginal amounts that while helpful feels more to me like
marketing spin which a few of you felt this post could be construed as. The
industry as a whole has such a negative reputation and unfortunately it’s
probably well deserved. Maybe some of you are right and I'm barking up the
wrong tree but I appreciate your thoughts nonetheless and plan on taking up
the offers to chat/correspond by a few of you. If you didn’t have a profile in
your email and wanted to touch base I set up charitystaffing@yahoo.com where
we can correspond and I can send you my personal email address/details.

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zhte415
Some comments have suggested that the money needs to come from somewhere /
business/staffing is still business, and/or that donating could be done in
several ways.

Could you turn these two threads into two birds to kill with one stone? I'm
thinking perhaps instead of donating to a 3rd party charity, are you able to
perhaps do something like a training and internship program for disadvantaged
candidates, be them career switchers, vets, non-college graduates, basically
people that slip through HR-nets, with your clients where to get the clients
on-board your people into post-training junior experience-building roles for a
few months (no or minimal fee for client, you pay a retainer salary to your
people) then after 3 or 6 or 9 months if the client wants to retain them you
get a lump-fee (and perhaps they stay on your books as an agency too).

Sorry, just thinking aloud. But something like the above seems not only to be
a one-off killing two birds with one stone, but might be a sustainable model
depending on how you get client buy-in.

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DoreenMichele
_I’m a veteran of the NYC IT staffing market but recent years have me
disillusioned with the business_

Why are you disillusioned with the business?

Why do you feel that simply giving half the money to charity somehow makes it
okay to continue working in an industry that you currently see in a negative
light?

Do you think you could make a staffing firm that would solve the issues within
the industry such that you would stop feeling negatively about it?

I'm all for some charitable giving. I think that helps make the world work
better. The world needs some means to help those folks for whom life simply
isn't working for some reason.

But I generally feel that when people see regular paid work so negatively and
their answer is to do the same work, but give away most of the profit, then
this suggests the system is broken. Something is fundamentally wrong. A new
model is needed so people can feel that their paid job actually matters and is
a positive thing.

Best of luck.

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thedufer
Can you really hire NYC area devs for so little pay? Even with the mission to
help win candidates over, that seems incredibly low. I would normally be more
worried about finding contracts (unless you have contacts you haven't
mentioned), but I don't think that's going to be the primary problem in your
plan.

~~~
jey
I think he means paying himself and his wife $75k each. The placements would
presumably be at market rates.

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patrickthebold
I think you should also consider paying the employees more than you strictly
need to. I think lots of private companies squeeze their employees on wedges.
And sure squeezing them for charity is better than for shareholders.

If it were me I'd do an employee owned nonprofit, than a 'profits go to
charity'.

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dupouy
I like your question very much. IMHO, every entreprise is a social entreprise.
No matter what it does, it affects society, does it not?

So, giving away a % of the revenues shouldn't be necessary, as long as the
business does something _meaningful_ for society.

Looks like you would help people make a living, while helping companies find
talent. That seems more-than-enough meaningful.

And if you'd like to be even more meaningful, you may experiment with how you
select your clients -- so they, too, do meaningful things.

I'd keep all the revenues, not out of greed, but simply so that you don't
suffer, allowing you to keep helping society in the long run.

~~~
zwaps
Others have downvoted you, so I want to add some ideas why you may not be
right here.

From an economist's view, it is clear that such "market behavior" may be
efficient in allocation of ressources, but not morally or ethically efficient.
There are many "pareto efficient" equilibria, for example, but the subset of
those which are socially desireable is small. Since we are not aware of a good
regulatory mechanism that ensures both allocative and distributive efficiency,
it is certainly commendable for individuals with wealth to throw their weight
into making society better for more people. Another sense of how this may be
desirable is that the more we look toward the long term, the more important
social incentives should become - while we as humans often think very
myopically. This is a view of efficiency.

From a sociologist's perspective, one may say that social norms - for example
how much we can and should help other people - are driven by both the behavior
around us, and what we observed in the past. So, being able to help people and
improve society is something that can move us, collectively, to a better path.
And not doing so, may cement a system that is not really desirable, yet
binding for individuals.

So indeed, doing things like this may not only feel meaningful, but they are
meaningful. And meaning in our actions is important for personal happiness.

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Digory
I hope you have a long and healthy future. But if the staffing work is
draining to you, how will this free you for "work that matters?"

It seems like the changes you're proposing are (1) cutting your own spending,
and (2) publicizing your charity goals. But neither (1) nor (2) alters your
work or gives money to your clients. Are you hoping (2) will bring you clients
you admire, because they like your charitable goals?

It could work, in the sense that NYC IT staffing had better spin off >$75k/per
employee in profit. But it doesn't seem to optimize for gains to charities or
your personal pleasure.

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throwawaymlc
All of the big firms in NYC already have their own heavily branded / promoted
charity day / events / philanthropy programs - your own charitable
contributions aren't going to be a selling point for them.

If you want do this for your own reasons, great, I am sure it could deliver a
lot of meaning and satisfaction in a field where that is perhaps hard to come
by.

(Shameless plug - I do happen to be on the job market in NYC now, if you
wanted to connect or offer any advice I'd be receptive, email in my profile).

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fxfan
Crazy in a good way. I don't think you need to talk about your earnings
distribution with either party.

Please remember to keep your hiring process human too and inculcate a culture
among seekers where job attributes thus relevant are paid attention to.

As someone who worked in the wall-street in a quant role it can be a mad rush
to nowhere and easy to get lost. So if you succeed, you'd be helping a whole
lot of people.

Remember though- businesses take time to setup. The more you deviate from the
normal the longer it may take you to get established.

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causehealth101
To me, it comes across as a disingenuous marketing gimmick.

If you're still going to be a staffing agency making income from placements,
what changes will you implement to transform it into a "service"?

And what's the difference between your idea and simply being an individual who
donates a portion of their income to charity?

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tathougies
I mean, if you don't want to operate your business for profit, then don't.
However, personally, I find it odd when business makes donations to charity. I
would just take it as salary and donate it yourself. That shouldn't have any
tax implications if you set the business up as a pass through entity.

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cl42
This is a great idea. I know a recruiter (and motivational speaker) who places
people _in_ charities and knows the ins-outs of "social good" and recruiting.
Let me know if you want to chat with him or have me send this idea over to
him. :)

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Endy
So where should I send my resume to work for you? I used to work for a
boutique staffing firm; I'd love to help.

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vadym909
Great idea. you could also consider making it a Co-op staffing agency or a
non-profit.

