
Show HN: Maildown – Markdown email campaigns - chris140957
Hi,<p>The beta program of my new startup, Maildown, is now complete and is now accepting paying customers:
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.maildown.app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.maildown.app</a><p>As well as a lot of stability enhancements, we&#x27;ve added a new help system, a new CLI (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;chris104957&#x2F;mailer-cli" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;chris104957&#x2F;mailer-cli</a>) and a REST API.<p>Maildown lets you create transactional and marketing email campaigns using Markdown syntax, so you can generate and send your email content far more quickly than with traditional WYSIWYG editors.<p>Thanks for looking,
Chris
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dplgk
So the value prop is markdown. Besides that, you have to compete equally with
Mailchimp, etc which is impossible. Why not offer your markdown parsing as a
service layer on top of existing providers' APIs?

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jen729w
Some of us actively dislike what Mailchimp has become and welcome the
alternatives.

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dplgk
Same here.

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si1entstill
It looks like your email validation doesn't allow "+" signs. I was able to
circumvent (the validation is client side only), but it would be nice if it
were allowed.

Edit: I am currently unable to verify an email address with a "+" in it, as
well.

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chris140957
Thanks, somebody else already pointed this out, and its down to frontend
regex-based verification. Will get it fixed

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la_fayette
It really looks like a nice backend! I have substantial experience in creating
email campains for clients.i must admit that an important features for
mailings is a possibility to create responsive layouts, which are supported on
different email clients... unfortunately i don't see the real value in using
markdown for writing the email text.

Maybe you can simplify one of these approaches for normal users:
[https://foundation.zurb.com/emails.html](https://foundation.zurb.com/emails.html)
[https://mjml.io/](https://mjml.io/)

~~~
chris140957
Thanks. Its theoretically possible to insert HTML into mails in Maildown,
opening all sorts of possibilities in terms of layouts, but this is not
something I've actively explored or documented yet. Something for me to look
into a bit further

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shortformblog
I like that this exists, as someone who writes everything in Markdown.

(I should note that there is a platform that offers something similar to this
already: [https://buttondown.email/](https://buttondown.email/))

But while Markdown on its own is great to see more of in the email space, I
think there's room to extend the idea. A few years ago, an employee of
CakeMail created this great demo of a concept that mixed shortcodes and
Markdown, but never followed through with the idea:
[http://cakedown.alexandredeschamps.ca/](http://cakedown.alexandredeschamps.ca/)

Part of the problem with that design was that it was built around specific
components in Foundation for Emails, which kinda backed that design in a
corner, but there's room to allow end users to custom-build components for
easy access, along the lines of what MJML can do. To me, I think that idea has
a ton of blue water around it. Nobody is combining shortcodes and Markdown in
this way for email clients, and it could potentially be very valuable as an
alternative to the overly complex WYSIWYG editors the rest of the email market
uses.

I run a newsletter with 10k+ subscribers
([https://tedium.co/](https://tedium.co/)) and I run it on Craft CMS in a way
that replicates the CakeMail approach to a degree, with my own flourishes
(which was convenient as I already use shortcodes for my text). It allows me
to throw in ads on the fly and simply add design features to content without a
lot of extra work. I'd love to see the general idea get picked up by some new
email provider.

I think we need more thinking in this direction, because a lot of email tools
are built for marketing, which means that editorial concerns get short shrift.
I could see stuff like this making a lot of sense for the growing editorial
newsletter market if it's handled the right way.

~~~
chris140957
Thanks, this is really interesting. One thing that is theoretically possible
with Maildown already (although I haven't tested it yet) is inserting raw HTML
into your emails, and this is possibly something I could look to expand.

Ultimately emails are rendered using Django HTML templates, and it supports
most of the Django template syntax. I'm thinking there is probably way more
that Maildown could exploit here to give it the ability to create richer
content within emails

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MrQuincle
[https://docs.maildown.app](https://docs.maildown.app) describes your model, 7
pound for 1000 emails. However, it's hard to find.

I also miss a lot of information. How do you prevent ending up in spam boxes?
Which templates to choose from? What can be configured, what not? Etc.

Also interesting insights / developer journeys like how easy Chargebee is for
you as developer, etc. would give me some incentive to try it out. Just my two
cents!

PS: 3 days ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19562539](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19562539)
it was a MVP and probably buggy. Maybe tell that to your customers as well.
;-)

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mbanerjeepalmer
Signup doesn't allow '+' in the email address, which is sometimes used in
Gmail email addresses.

Edit: Plus `## Creating contact lists` in the docs doesn't seem to have
rendered properly.

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marcrosoft
Allowing + is bad. It allows users to churn trials easily.

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stonogo
Accept the address and key the user based on the part preceding +.

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Mailtemi
Hi, the service looks neat. As others found the verification is a bit clunky
and delete email address doesn't work. I'm working on an email app, which
converts HTML/plain text to markdown. Not yet released :) As far as see the
plain/text is written markdown. I would suggest you modify content type to be
"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown" In
this case, an email client will know it is markdown and can use it without
conversion. "Mail Mate" mac app support it, hopefully, my app for iOS soon.

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ccleve
Looks like you're using undraw svgs with the default color. You can change the
color by clicking the color button in the upper right corner of the undraw
site.

I'd add some examples of emails that look good that are done in Markdown.
Starter templates would be really helpful.

I'd change the limit from X emails/day to X/month. Who sends mass email every
day?

I can't tell what the pricing would be for a much larger number of emails
without signing up. Do it the way Mailchimp does -- put your pricing slider
outside the signup.

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chris140957
Thanks, have been meaning to add a pricing page, as well as a tutorial video,
to the landing page.

Your feedback on monthly vs daily is also interesting. Will consider that -
ultimately it you exceed your daily limit There is no hard fail, it just gets
retried later

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josep2
Seems eerily similar to
Buttondown([https://buttondown.email](https://buttondown.email))

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tln
Interesting concept, not sure it'd meet our needs but I'd like to try a send.

I couldn't verify my email, or find any contact info though...

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chris140957
So when you first sign up, you should get an email (via AWS) with a link to
verify your email. If you don't receive this, you can trigger the email again
from the Email addresses section (in the apps navbar).

There's a quick start guide in the docs
([https://docs.maildown.app](https://docs.maildown.app)) which guides you
through the process of creating and sending your first email - probably worth
a look.

Eventually I'd like to add an in-app tutorial which shows the buttons to click
to get you started. As I've mentioned in another reply, I know the learning
process is still not yet obvious

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tln
I got the link. It just took me to the marketing site. The "Check status"
thing worked, just clunky.

Including some of the docs inline in the editor would be very useful...
wouldn't have seen the templates (including recipient name etc) otherwise.

I lost my edits because I assumed they'd be saved (save button was below the
fold..)

I like the style of the dashboard.

GL

~~~
chris140957
Glad it came through. Yeah I need to have it save the emails periodically

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bemmu
I had the same issue. I clicked the verification link, but it redirected me to
the main site and I still have "You cannot create any emails yet because you
have not verified any email addresses".

Later I noticed I have to go to "email addresses" and "check verification
status". You'll probably lose some people at this step, since I hadn't
expected to need to do that.

Also in "my campaigns" it says "Click on the campaign name to expand" but
actually you have to click on the arrow at the end of the row.

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tnolet
I would use this. I'm so fed up with rendering HTML (even with MJML) or
dealing with WYSIWYG editors in web UI's.

However, the concerns would be:

1\. Deliverability and everything to do with spam ranking etc.

2\. Price. Email is a total commodity. It needs to be sharp.

3\. Stability. Is this a 1 year "startup idea" or a company that's in it for
the long run?

~~~
chris140957
Thanks for the feedback, I didn't think I'd be the only one that hates
WYSIWYG. Deliverability is something that we're keeping an eye on. We're using
AWS SES, which provides a lot of options in that area. Anybody who receives an
email from Maildown can unsubscribe at any time using the link appended to
every email. Once they done that, Maildown will refuse to send that user any
mail from that Maildown user's account. Similarly, we track bounces via SES,
SNS and Lambda and handle them in the same way. This minimizes our bounce
count, and therefore enhances our sender reputation

Price is in line with similar competitors and starts at £3.50 a month

The stability thing applies to any new startup, but we've had a lot of
interest in this so far so it seems like it will make sense to continue

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quickthrower2
Can you steal my idea and run with it?

I’d like to set up mail campaigns as markdown sure, but ideally as a folder
structure in a git repo. Then gut push to publish. I don’t want to use a web
UI at all because they are slow and sucky. And I want my campaign properly
backed up.

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dguido
My first question for e-mail service providers is always, do you support SPF,
DKIM, and DMARC for mail delivery?

~~~
chris140957
Sorry for the slow response. Yes we support all of those. We can send you the
appropriate records to set this up on request

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exolymph
For anyone who's interested in this but wants to check out various services:
[https://buttondown.email/](https://buttondown.email/) uses Markdown. I've had
a great experience with it so far.

~~~
chris140957
A few people have mentioned this one. I wasn't aware of it, but looks good

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veryworried
Thank you for making your CLI a first class citizen. I have been growing tired
of typical web app interfaces and am glad to see something that just gets
straight to the point instead of trying to “Wow” me with graphical UX.

~~~
chris140957
Thanks, I think the CLI/API is pretty key too - Ultimately I think Maildown is
primarily targeted at developers so its important that it integrates easily
with what its customers are trying to build

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bhouston
I will be honest. I want an tool for this that I can then send via Amazon sms
directly. The same prop is just the composer/markdown aspect and I do not want
to pay on a per email basis for it.

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PopeDotNinja
Neat! I like Markdown.

Out of curiosity, have you tackled email deliverability yet? If so, may I ask
if you have any recommended reading sources. I recently found myself
interested in the topic.

~~~
chris140957
Thanks. Deliverability is something I'm still learning about, I don't really
claim to be an expert on it yet.

As Maildown uses SES, I did find this article to be quite helpful:
[https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/delive...](https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/deliverability-
and-ses.html)

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ficiek
The website doesn't work with third-party JS disabled.

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threatofrain
But how does one automate or do programmatic markdown? With some kind of
markdown templating language?

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codingdave
I'm genuinely curious how many people you find to like markdown, once you are
outside the tech community. My work has always focused on detailed content
management, which isn't Markdown's strength (nested lists, embedded tables,
detailed options on layout and numbering, etc.), and markdown is therefore a
non-starter when we talk about putting authoring capabilities into our
customer's hands. I can see where email is simpler, so the tech limitations
won't stop you.... but would love to hear what audience/demographic is paying
for a service where markdown is the main feature?

