
Classics for the People - Petiver
https://aeon.co/essays/why-working-class-britons-loved-reading-and-debating-the-classics
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idoubtit
The idea is interesting, but I see little more than anecdotes to sustain it.

> aeon.co/essays/why-working-class-britons-loved-reading-and-debating-the-
> classics

How many working class Britons did so and when? By 1800, was it 1%? 10%?

For instance, the article mentions the British Museum in 1782. But there was
an entry fee until the 1830s, so I strongly doubt millions of working class
people went there, even once in their life.

The anecdote about the slater reading a newspaper on a roof may be true, but
it could very well be an urban legend from the 1730s. It's part of the
collection of short and amusing notes from Montesquieu, the first one being:
"London's people eat much meat; it makes them very strong; but when they reach
40 to 45 years, they kick the bucket." in
[https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Notes_sur_l’Angleterre](https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Notes_sur_l’Angleterre)

All of the very remarkable people that self-taught the classics just show that
some people born from the working-class managed to read the classics and
acquire a culture that was the prerogative of others. But without any
estimation on quantity, it shows nothing more.

By the way, today, how much of these classics are left in the popular culture?
How many people have _read all_ of the most representative classics, Odyssey
and Aeneid? Who reads the authors mentioned in this article, like Plutarch,
Herodotes and Xenophon? Even with modern translation easily and freely
available, I suppose it amounts to little, even if you can find counter-
examples.

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DiffEq
It has always been this way; the educated have read these works, studied these
works. There is a difference between going to school and being educated;
although the vast majority of people go to school and even pursue what some
call "higher education", still the truly educated are the minority...and that
is because it is hard and people are lazy.

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billfruit
I would recommend the book "The Trivium: The Liberal Arts of Logic, Grammar,
and Rhetoric", by Sister Miriam Joseph.

It attempts to cover the ground that may have been lost by those who missed
out studying 'The Classics' formally, all in a single book.

~~~
t_mann
This looks like a beautiful book, a perfect Christmas gift, thanks! Just one
question: it seems that there are two such books with almost identical titles,
the one by Sister Miriam Joseph and one by John Michell, Rachel Holley and
others. Do you have any advice on the differences? The latter one seems to
have a nicer graphic design, and it appears that it’s part of a series of
similar books on different disciplines.

~~~
billfruit
I was referring to the Sr. Miriam book, first published 1948. The other seems
to be an anthology book, frankly not sure of the quality of the content in it.

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dr_dshiv
The modern one is fantastic quality. The quadrivium and trivium. Really
incredible.

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grabbalacious
_> Recovering the working-class classicists of the past can also function as a
rallying cry to modern Britain to support the case for the universal
availability in schools of classical civilisation and ancient history_

This is somewhat begging the question of why those heroic people loved reading
and debating the classics. One could argue that working class libraries and
the tiny pockets of diverse private education were destroyed by government
subsidy and the system of state education. This system now picks the tunes and
imposes them universally. To influence a compulsory national curriculum one
then has to compete with all the various propagandists anxious themselves to
grasp the levers.

~~~
Nasrudith
The classics were a part of the Zeitgeist essentially - related to the legacy
of Rome and Latin as a trade, church, and academic language. It was a
universal thing and I believe the works themselves were incidental (although
influental) compared to the intellectual culture itself in valuing study.

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arethuza
My father, who was a joiner, gained an abiding interest in Homer from an
Oxbridge classics student he was stationed alongside in the RAF in WW2.
Explains why my eldest sister is called Helen!

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telesilla
In a similar vein, I wouldn't be where I am today without classical music -
playing in an orchestra and chamber music as a young person opened my world up
beyond what I could otherwise find in my immediate surroundings. Alongside,
growing up reading the English classics now seems part of that, along with
radio access to "high brow" programs.

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Kriticalmess
_Uh_ In my oppinion (I'm no way against classic music) -but.... situation to
consume such classic music is not always given ...

An example, by Klaus Hoffman (german) 'So trollen wir uns' (So we troll):
//youtube/v=dZYXJkWQsa8

~~~
Tomte
'So trollen wir uns' (So we troll)

I doubt that this is an accurate translation. "Trollen" isn't used in the
internet sense here.

