
How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple - mhartl
http://www.cultofmac.com/192350/how-apples-obsession-with-google-is-hurting-apple/
======
arrrg
First, to get it out of the way: People are very right in mocking Apple. They
deserve every bit of that. What they delivered with their Maps app is
embarrassing. I do not want to defend that.

The problem, however, is that this article assumes something to be
unequivocally true even though we do not know whether it is: That Apple
decided to build their own maps in order to hurt Google.

It takes two to play. Both Apple _and_ Google have to agree that Apple gets to
use Google’s data – and on the conditions. That we know nothing about. We do
know, however, that the old Maps app was perpetually stuck in 2007 while
Android phones gained 3D views and (much more important) vector maps and turn
by turn navigation. If Google refused to give that to Apple it’s perfectly
understandable that Apple goes looking for alternatives.

I’m not saying that’s the case. It could really be that Apple’s intention here
was to hurt Google – but we cannot, as this article does, just assume that to
be true. (To quote: “We all know the reason why Apple is doing these things.
They’re more focused now on hurting Google than thrilling users, just like
they were with Microsoft in the 90s.” – no, we do most certainly _not_ all
know that that’s the case.)

~~~
andreyf
_the old Maps app was perpetually stuck in 2007 while Android phones gained 3D
views and (much more important) vector maps and turn by turn navigation_

I don't need or care about 3D view or vector maps or turn-by-turn navigation
(although I see how the last one could be useful for a lot of users). I, like
most city dwellers, need directions that take public transit into account. I
can't believe Apple released an "upgrade" which downgrades such critical
functionality.

~~~
demallien
A couple of points spring to mind: 1) public transit is not a very big
advantage. It is useful only in the handful of US cities that have decent
public transport. In Paris, one of the great public transport cities in the
world, google still doesn't provide public transport information. In 2012.
Apple's solution, to rely on 3rd party devs for this has every chance if
providing a solution to iPhone users before Google.

2) But even assuming you're one if the lucky few for whom Google provided
public transport information, you can still use Google maps from the browser.
You can even add an icon in Springboard for it, giving you full access to
google itineraries. The only thing that has really been lost is street view.

~~~
kalleboo
In my experience, Google Maps' Transit coverage is far far greater than "a
handful of U.S. cities". It's worked everywhere I've been in Japan, in
Singapore, Hong Kong, Sweden, London, Athens...

The beauty of Google's Transit compared to apps maintained by the transit
companies themselves is that it supports cross-company travel.

~~~
Terretta
Not Paris, not Rome.

~~~
kalleboo
Found the list of cities. It's massive. It's true no Paris or Rome, but many
other cities in France and Italy.
<http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/transit/text.html#eu>

------
redthrowaway
The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This
is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current
anti-Google jihad is Jobs' baby. This is what he wanted. Now, it's entirely
possible that he would never have authorized iOS shipping with a broken maps
application, but to suggest that Apple's current direction is anything other
than his idea and his impetus is naive in the extreme.

~~~
andrewljohnson
Maps-gate, antenna-gate, BS-gate. Every time Apple ships an iDevice, the
internet and tech press spin some yarn about a defect in the device, how it
isn't a big enough improvement, how it's only smaller and thinner, how it's
copying Android.

And what happens... every, single, time? The public buys them in droves, and
adores them to the last man.

Apple Maps is both a strong technical flourish, and it's a bold strategy for
overtaking the leaders by bolstering OpenStreetMap, and I think that end game
is going to work.

~~~
huskyr
Note that Apple Maps isn't using OpenStreetMap. It's using a combination of a
few different sources, mostly TomTom maps.

~~~
adsr
They are using a combination of different sources, but OpenStreetMap is on of
those sources.

------
wklauss
I'm afraid the obsession is not on Apple over Google but on the media and
blogs over Apple and every single thing they do. Of course Apple will watch
its competitor closely, especially since both are now headed in same
direction. And of course they need competing services.

Likewise, I'm sure that Google is watching closely every move Apple makes. But
nobody in their right mind would say Google has an "obsession" with Apple.

This map thing is a fun anecdote, but I'm not sure how big of a deal it really
is. And yes, the maps are worse than the ones Google has develop for the past
7 years -it was to be expected- but Apple didn't have much room for movement
here. If you cannot go forward on the current path, and standing still is not
an option, the only possible move is take a step back and find a new route.
Simple as that. Painful, sure, but it had to be done sooner or later.

~~~
warmwaffles
Google maps sucked when it first came out. It will be fixed and both
applications will improve. I think this is will only turn out two awesome map
applications rather than just relying on google for everything.

~~~
joeblau
Really? I remember when I first used Google Maps coming from being a Map Quest
user, I was blown away that I could scroll without having to refresh the page.

~~~
snowwrestler
Google's interface was revolutionary, but MapQuest had deeper and more
accurate data for years.

------
ef4
The argument that Apple needs their own map for strategic reasons is fine, but
it doesn't explain why they needed to ship it before it was any good. I can
imagine three explanations:

(1) They think they need to start gathering user-generated map content. "Add
your business to Apple Maps if you want iPhone users to find it."

(2) An internal struggle at Apple. If the supporters of the maps project
thought it was at risk of getting dropped, they might have pushed it out the
door to make it harder for the company to back down.

(3) They didn't realize quite how bad it was. Just because customers started
finding hilarious problems on days one doesn't mean they're trivially easy to
find. With enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.

~~~
andreyf
I think "why did they ship the new maps app before it was ready?" is the most
interesting question about this whole debacle.

I don't think they actually gather user-generated map content via iOS maps, so
(1) doesn't make much sense to me.

(2) strikes me as weird reasoning. If there's a good argument that Apple needs
their own maps, enough to justify the acquisitions, it doesn't seem likely
that the project would get dropped.

I don't think (3) makes sense: they cut out critical functionality like public
transit in directions. I don't see a reason to ship something which reduces
useful features unless there was a very compelling reason.

I think the most likely reason was actually pressure of some kind from
Google's side.

~~~
ricardobeat
> I don't think they actually gather user-generated map content via iOS maps

I've noticed my search suggestions changing from one day to another (including
misspellings), so apparently Maps does have some form of crowd-sourcing built
in.

~~~
meepmorp
There's a place to report errors in address information, pin placement, etc.
in the maps app.

------
SoftwareMaven
How do we know this is Apple trying to hurt Google? How do we know this isn't
Google trying to hurt Apple?

The fact that this sucks so bad for Apple's users and seems to be a net
positive for Google would seem to indicate it is likely to be otherwise. The
fact that Apple extolled the virtues of its map is immaterial. _Of course_
they are going to do that.

~~~
josephcooney
How does google force Apple to ship broken software again? I've forgotten....

~~~
meepmorp
By refusing to grant them a license to their map data in iOS 6? or placing
such demands and restrictions on the license that it's preferable to Apple to
just go with what they have?

~~~
josephcooney
Apple had the choice of shipping nothing at all, or licencing map data from
someone else.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
The "license other" has been covered elsewhere, but do you really believe the
current solution is more of a problem for Apple than no maps would have been?

~~~
josephcooney
No, but they still had a choice.

------
pilif
To be fair though: we could just as well be seeing the results of a contract
expiring which to renew Google might have asked for unreasonable terms.

Think of it: the iPhone came out 5 years ago and 5 years is a conceivable
contract term, just as it was 5 years for the YouTube app.

When the maps app was initially put on the phone, Google maps was more or less
free. Nowadays it is very expensive (a bit better now, but still too expensive
for many services out there). Surely not too expensive for Apple, but still.

The best way for apple would probably have been to extend the contract for
another year or two to improve their maps service which they are clearly
working on for two to three years already.

But maybe it is Google that didn't want that. Maybe they outright refused,
wanted to only do it at 10 times the original price for another 5 years or
longer, or they might have wanted a patent agreement to stop the witch hunt
against android. We just don't know, but the reason for crappy maps could just
as well have been Google.

Or as I use to say: why can't they just get along? It would be so much better
for the consumer they both seem to put first in their pitches.

~~~
Tichy
This is already becoming a new stab-in-the-back legend: it's not Apple's
fault, it is Google's fault. That seems very unlikely to me, but I guess it
will just end how it always ends. Apple fans will keep believing it was
Google's fault, Google fans will keep believing it was Apple's fault.
(Disclaimer: I am a Google fan).

Also, I wonder if Google really was the only player who could provide a maps
app? What about Microsoft/Bing, or Nokia? Nobody wanted to play nice with
Apple? And why not?

------
milesskorpen
This article makes a legitimate point about the maps application. But I don't
get the strange tangent on Google+ — why would anyone expect Apple to anoint
the social network of a competitor which isn't even that popular?

~~~
fl3tch
It should be noted that Mike Elgan is a prolific user and advocate of G+ with
a big following.

<https://plus.google.com/+MikeElgan/posts>

~~~
NZ_Matt
The only people advocating G+ are tech journalists that have a strong
following and like to market their websites on it. It just doesn't have a lot
of utility for the average folk who primarily want to engage with their
friends and family.

------
Matsta
Ahh yes, so we are all really going to ditch Facebook and Twitter for Google+
soon? I kinda doubt it

"Although Google+ may have as little as 10% of the active users of Facebook,
it’s growing faster than Facebook ever did. And more importantly, Google+ has
a vastly superior user experience to Facebook and has a much brighter longterm
future, in my opinion."

~~~
Gustomaximus
I would agree with that statement. I look at Chrome for desktop and the almost
linear month on month growth for 2 years to become the most used browser, IMO
largely because they have placement on Youtube/Google/Gmail pages (and of
course a decent product). This growth is incredible when they don't have
significant pre-installation and unsurprisingly shows the power of having web
presence.

Here is Chromes forward march: <http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-
monthly-201001-201208>

But back to G+, over the short term (1 year) I see G+ getting some traction in
the professional environmental, much likes Facebook's college crowd. Longer
term (3 years) Google will use their massive presence across the search home
page, Youtube, Android, Maps, Gmail and probably books/movies/music to sign
people up bit by bit until they reach a critical mass where you may as well
use G+ rather than Facebook from a reach perspective. Then you have the
tipping point where a few features make the choice difference. And I back
Google to innovate killer features and build brand preference over Facebook.

------
Corrado
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the article. My take on it is
that Apple is, again, losing it's way and the article points out some specific
examples. Things like maps and Facebook integration are just the icing on the
cake. I just can't shake the feeling that Apple doesn't care about the
customer anymore.

With every new OS release Apple has moved toward homogenization of their
product line. Soon there will be no difference between what's on your desktop
and in your pocket, and I think this is a bad thing. Apple's main strength has
always been its ability to attract "makers", however with this new direction I
see them turning their back on developers, artists, writers, etc. Maybe that's
a valid market and a good long term vision and if so then good for them.

However, for the first time in years I am looking for other alternatives for
my future computing devices. And that makes me sad. I've really, really
enjoyed (most of) their products over the last 20 years, but I guess like any
other company, Apple has run out of steam.

------
kamaal
Apple is no way positioned to harm Google in any way on the longer run. In
many ways Apple's products are like what video games, music albums and stereos
were in the past. They are products with massive hype, craze and cult
following of some kind.

Google on the other hand is a massive Innovation factory, churning innovations
by the years. No body really is close to them when it comes to search, on line
advertising etc. On top of that they have some of the top most properties on
the internet- Mail, News, G+ etc etc.

What you are seeing now is Google really flooding market with their other
innovative stuff Google TV, Android, wearable computing, self driving cars,
offering peta byte scale data analytic engines etc. Engineering innovation is
awesome too.

Apple cannot compete with that sort of company. Their best bet is to assume
that their cult following will remain and will go gaga every time they come
with a new product.

~~~
josephlord
Apple may not be positioned to harm Google massively but I don't see that is
really their aim.

Google clearly has done and still does some real useful innovation but I think
that you are massively overstating their effectiveness on that front.

What is innovative about Google TV? The first version was a shit concept
implemented badly and advertised by lunatics. I understand the second version
is better but I still don't think the concept is right (I've not used the
second version so it may be quite good now).

Android? I'm not saying that it isn't good or doesn't have some innovations
but it isn't in a different class to iOS or even probably WinPhone. Can you
explain what is really innovative about it.

Wearable computing - toy so far. Do I think that it will be turned into a mass
market product in the next 5 years. My bet is no. Also IF Apple was working on
such a thing they wouldn't tell the world until it was consumer ready so there
isn't necessarily a lead.

On line advertising, peta byte scale data analytics - these are tools used
against me as a customer (or am I the product). They are the reasons that I
don't use Gmail or want an Android phone. Do I trust Google more than FB -
hell yes! But they know too much already from my search patterns, maps use
etc. I don't want to give them any more.

I could go down the rest of your list but it would get tedious.

It also seems to me that cult going gaga these days isn't the Apple one but
the Google one. There is far more vitriol, anger and negative comments about
Apple products than raving praise for them. Your post is not in that category
but it shows what I perceive as an unhealthy level of reverence to Google.

------
joeblau
I agree that the obsession against Google is hurting Apple, but I also feel
that Apple is not the only company with a vendetta against Google. Twitter,
Facebook, Yammer, Mozilla, and Dropbox are a few names that come to mind off
of the top of my head. One thing that all of these companies have in common is
that they had a product, and Google came though (or is coming) with its
machine to copy/paste it as a Google product (Android, Buzz, Google+, Chrome,
Google Drive).

Granted--That's what Google does; They take a product like search, mail, or
maps and make it a lot better. Most of what Google creates up is top notch,
but I think that Google may actually be the company isolating themselves from
the rest of the software development community in the long run.

~~~
s_baby
Isn't Mozilla funded by Google?

~~~
rat87
Yes but Mozilla would drop google if they wanted to, they could probably get a
decent chunk from microsoft for making bing search the default(I think they
use Yandex as the main search provider in russia for a while).

Chrome competes with firefox but mozilla has no beef with google.

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manojlds
I stopped reading when it compared Google+ to Google Maps. Really? By the
author's own measure, Google+ is the result of Google's obsession with
Facebook.

------
Xcelerate
I hardly got to the article because I couldn't quit laughing at the image at
the top! Apparently that was an old painting that an 80 year old woman
"restored":
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_Homo_(El%C3%ADas_Garc%C3%A...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_Homo_\(El%C3%ADas_Garc%C3%ADa_Mart%C3%ADnez\))

It's a very interesting story in and of itself.

~~~
Xcelerate
Seriously? I found the story to be intellectually stimulating. There's a lot
in the news about how the new version can be an interpretation of both secular
and sacred themes. I hardly consider my comment un-hacker-news worthy.

------
yalogin
From the last 10 years its very safe to assume that Apple would never ship
anything like this if they are not forced to. I would bet that its Google that
wanted to do this more than Apple. I do not doubt that Apple wanted to move
away from Google maps but I highly doubt they wanted to do it with iOS6. This
is article is ridiculous to assume that. Really bad.

------
tmh88j
I agreed with everything up until the strange digression into Google+. I
understand why he brought it up, but why go into irrelevant details about it?

While we're on the subject of G+...

>And more importantly, Google+ has a vastly superior user experience to
Facebook

Really? Am I the only one who can't seem to figure out G+ at all? I use it
almost daily for hangouts, but navigation is unbearable. The lack of labels
and use of icons we're supposed to know is irritating. Good luck joining a
hangout that's in progress unless you're invited.

G+ may appear to be more clean and chic on the surface, but when navigation
and functionality are an issue none of that matters.

------
Flenser
_The company has also gotten into bed with both Twitter and Facebook on social
networking, and doesn’t offer any out-of-the-box integration with Google+.

Twitter integration makes sense for Apple. But Facebook integration does not,
as I explained in June._

They are attacking Facebook too. The new social features for photos are a
clear shot at Facebook as photo sharing drives much of Facebook's network
effect. That's probably also why Facebook are getting in the phone business,
as Apple are one of the biggest makers of cameras.

------
ralfd
Linking to cultofmac with this sensationalized headline? For a moment I
thought I was on reddit instead of hn.

<http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/10/21/cult-of-mac>

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0ack
Sort of like how Google's obsession with Facebook is hurting Google?

------
corporalagumbo
I cannot believe I hadn't heard or realised that the Youtube app had been
removed! That's insane! Is this common knowledge or has it gone under the
radar?

~~~
yskchu
There's a Youtube app in the app store now, it's pretty good, check it out.

I like how you can read comments while watching the clip, you couldn't do that
before.

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angelortega
Upvoted, if only for the "infographic" on Google vs Apple Maps. LOL!

