
Why I killed my standing desk - cormullion
https://ooomf.com/blog/why-i-killed-my-standing-desk/
======
jrockway
One problem that a lot of people have is starting some new athletic-type-thing
too quickly. Standing is similar. Do an hour a day for a month. Then do two
hours a day. Your body adjusts very slowly, but does adjust.

(I have this problem whenever I start running after a long break. My cardio
system is in relatively good shape from cycling. But the muscles used by
running aren't. So I end up with shin splits after the first run. You have to
start at an insanely low intensity: walk 20 minutes, run 30 seconds. For a
month. Add 10% a week after that.)

For standing, HN recommended an anti-fatigue mat. I got one yesterday, and so
far, I am noticing less fatigue while standing. Who would have guessed.

~~~
goofygrin
Zero drop shoes (altra for my front feet specifically) and Vibram five fingers
cured my shin splints. As soon as I switched I went from one mile = deadly
pain to 3 miles feeling like an easy walk. Obviously I have some mechanical
issue but if a funny looking pair of shoes works... Well great =)

~~~
bendecoste
If you go this route (which I also recommend), make sure you adjust your
striking appropriately, you'll want to land mostly on the balls of your feet
or your toes. Landing heel first in zero drop shoes will give you shin splints
like you wouldn't believe.

~~~
ambrop7
I got some zero drop shoes some time ago. I've been running with a forefoot
strike ever since, but with those shoes the muscles on the back of my legs
start to hurt consistently about 25 minutes into the run. If I continue, the
damage could take up to 2 weeks to repair before I can run again.

I still run with the zero drop shoes small distances from time to time, but it
doesn't look like I'll ever be able to get the the point where I can run as
fast and/or as long as with regular running shoes. Granted, I'm a relatively
fast runner (usually 9km in 45min) and it may work better for lighter running.

------
keithpeter
_" After two weeks, I was able to stand for about four hours a day, but I
still needed to take multiple breaks."_

I work as a teacher. I don't sit down much in a typical working day, so I
found that sentence strange to say the least. Then I realised that _I don 't
stand still_ ever in the classroom. I'm effectively walking around my patch of
savannah all day like our ancestors did, occasionally sitting or squatting
down to talk to students on their work.

Perhaps it is the lack of movement that is the problem?

~~~
TillE
Walking for an hour straight is so much more comfortable than standing still
for even 10 minutes. Presumably because you're constantly engaging different
muscles, giving the others a chance to briefly rest. Now I just have to figure
out how to build some kind of treadmill desk.

------
stevenwei
I switched to a treadmill desk setup in my home office about a year ago and
have been pretty happy with it.

[http://imgur.com/a/zbm35](http://imgur.com/a/zbm35)

The desk itself is electric height-adjustable which makes it easy to switch
between walking/standing and sitting with the push of a button, and the
monitors are mounted on arms so I can move them to the correct height when I
switch positions.

It took some getting used to before I could walk for extended periods of time,
but now I don't really think about it anymore, I just start walking and before
I know it, an hour has gone by. That said, I have found that it's hard to
really concentrate while walking. If I find myself in the middle of a
particularly difficult programming problem, I'll often need to sit down before
I can really think about it.

But there's a lot of time throughout the day where I'm not doing anything
that's super mentally challenging, like reading HN :) or catching up on email
or finishing light programming tasks, and I try to walk as much as possible
during those times.

At this point I typically walk between 1-3 hours total per day, and end up
alternating between walking/standing/sitting every hour or so. Sometimes after
sitting for a while I find myself starting to feel sleepy, switching to
walking at this point usually wakes me right back up and keeps me going. Not
sure, why, probably a circulation thing.

The setup wasn't particularly cheap to put together (though you could
certainly do it for a lot cheaper than I did), but after a year I've concluded
the cost was totally worth it considering how many hours of my life I spend
(and will continue to spend) in front of a computer.

------
dan_bk
What you need is a standing desk that adopts to YOU, not the other way round.
Here's the one I have been using for approx. 2 years now and I can tell you I
will NEVER go back to a sitting-only desk:
[http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/l...](http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/language/en-
US/Default.aspx)

There are variations of this model available, but the main points are:

1\. Screen (even if laptop) and keyboard/mouse are separated so everything is
exactly at the correct height (= ergonomic, won't become a pain!)

2\. You can pull up (and push down) the whole thing very easily, with just 1
hand/no force: This means you can change whenever you feel the slightest
issue. Changing every 10 minutes easily becomes a healthy no-brainer routine.

------
fallinghawks
This is what happens when people follow recipes blindly for something that
isn't cooking: doomed to fail.

First, I'm guessing the author's standing desk was simply not the right height
for him. The "$22 Ikea" is a fixed height and I suspect he never adjusted it
to something comfortable, customized for his height.

Second, as someone said earlier, he approached it like it was some kind of
marathon - he planned to stand at the thing all day, right away. You actually
have to work up to using a standing desk -- alternate sitting and standing and
slowly increase the amount of standing time.

------
raldi
I'd like to preempt the inevitable posting of the link to the Cornell article
about standing desks. It's a complete, 180-degree misrepresentation of the
study it claims to be based on.

Details here: [http://redd.it/kfjet](http://redd.it/kfjet)

~~~
tzs
There are problems with the page you cite.

1\. It seems to be referring to a very old version of the Cornell page. For
instance, it says the Cornell page only cites one source. The current page
cites seven sources in the references section, and one in the body of the
article.

2\. The one source cited in the old version of the page was concentrating on
musculoskeletal disorders. It found benefits to using an electric height-
adjustable work surface. The EHAW resulted in a minor increase in
musculoskeletal discomfort, and a substantial decrease in the severity of
upper body musculoskeletal symptoms. The Cornell article does not contradict
this. It says that they have found that standing desks increase the risk of
some musculoskeletal problems such as carpal tunnel syndrome. Together, these
are just saying that standing can help with some kinds of musculoskeletal
problems, and harm with others. The Cornell article is also considering a
wider range of potential problems than the EHAW study considered, and has the
benefit of being written 8 years after the EHAW study and so can take into
account subsequent research.

The bottom line is that sitting too much is bad for you, and standing too much
is bad for you. That's the conclusion of the Cornell article, and nothing in
the EHAW study (which was done by the same people that did the Cornell
article) contradicts that.

------
rodh257
2 weeks doesn't seem like that long to persist with a major change like
swapping from sitting all day to standing. Would be interesting to hear from
someone who persisted with it for longer to see if they were able to adjust
fully. I have a desk that is adjustable from sitting to standing and enjoy it
as it lets me work longer without my back annoying me.

In regards to the 135 degree suggestion, I've found this doesn't work well for
me, my lower back hurts, and also it encourages me to stick my chin forward
which puts pressure on your neck. Could be a result of body shape or specifics
of my setup though.

~~~
drh
One more data point: Made the switch about two years ago here. At the time I
was already fairly athletic, with normal BMI and in my mid twenties.

The first two weeks were incredibly difficult. After that you could feel the
adaption kicking in, and by about a month I was able to stand for six hours at
a time - punctuated by the usual trips to the kitchen and toilet several times
per day of course.

Forget getting into the zone in this time. Compared with my peers, I would say
I'm fast to adapt physically to new 'stresses' (from weight training and
running in my experience), so I would judge this to be towards the 'best case'
end of the scale.

Definitely agree that the author of this post threw in the towel too early.
Standing for a full day is no mean feat. You wouldn't expect to run a marathon
after two weeks of training having never run before.

------
Derbasti
People have different bodies. For this guy, a standing desk did not work out.
For others, it does.

Personally, I am more focused when standing. I feel more active and less
likely to get bored. Also, I frequently walk a few steps when I need to think
about something.

I used to have my brightest ideas when I stood up from my chair to go to the
toilet, or while showering in the morning. Now I just walk a few steps from my
desk and look out the window, or get a glass of water. This keeps my body busy
while my mind is churning on something. It works for me.

~~~
tallTrees
I used a standing desk for about ten years, starting because of back problems
where I couldn't sit down for more than 15 minutes. I also had a drafting
stool (with a back) so that I could sit or stand. Some days I mostly stood,
some days mostly sat, some very mixed. Now I have a different job and sit at a
desk all day. I can't say I miss my standing desk except for its size (4' X
8') -- it was unmatched for working with two or three people.

------
ekianjo
> One community in Okinawa, Japan has one fifth the risk of colon and breast
> cancer and lives seven years longer than the average American.

I like it when sources are not cited, and when you compare a community to a
country (sample size significance problem??) and when you forget completely
about the recent scandal in Japan of having people dead for long (like people
at 130-140 years old...) still registered as living (these points in the data
make the average move very sensitively).

Japan's data for life expectancy is a joke, seriously.

------
vittore
I had similar experience but with much easier solution to my troubles. I've
bought bar-stool, in fact i have 2 of them - one actual bar stool and another
one more like adjustable bar chair with nice leather finish. So I have 3
options to switch between - staying in front of my standing table, sit on hard
stool or better to say lean on it a little bit, sitting on the edge, or
sitting on comfy leather chair. This way if I am in a flow I can work however
long I need, switchig chairs.

------
gojomo
The "$22 of ikea parts" approach looks like a torture device to me.

The tiniest tweak to standing desk height can make a big difference in
resulting posture and comfort. (My exact height preference even changes from
day to day, perhaps due to varying shoes or recent levels of other activity.)

~~~
peterhajas
What sort of activities do you change desk height for?

~~~
gojomo
It's not strictly modal, "when doing X use height Y" – I just find my posture
preference changing slightly over time.

I suppose long writing/coding is a bit more active/upright (higher), while
long reading/browsing tends to involve a forward or alternating side-lean
(lower). Shoes, time of day, and other recent exertion seem to be factors as
well. And I alternate to seated, for hours or sometimes days at a time, for
variety.

I suspect I'm more likely to start a new project or do many small independent
tasks while standing, and more likely to work-through a lengthier, involved
task while seated... but I haven't kept careful notes.

------
nmkn
I haven't experimented with a standing desk, but it seems like you can develop
a tolerance overtime, so that eventually, you'll stop thinking about the
discomfort when you're trying to concentrate. I can see where the author is
coming from though. I tried to read a book when I was cycling in the gym, but
it didn't go so well because I ended up spliting my concentration with the
book and exercise. No gains in either activity unless I sacrificed the other.
However, standing is a low-intensity physical activity, more similar to
walking, so I think that overtime you'd just get used to it. It becomes a
healthy active habit like taking the stairs everyday.

------
etfb
I built myself a standing desk and used it for a couple of months. It was my
feet, not my back, that convinced me to go back to sitting down. I suppose if
I'd invested in some kind of special flooring or even more comfortable shoes,
I might still be using the standing desk, but I don't know.

What I'd really like is some way to sit on an exercise bike (I believe they're
called "stationary bikes" in some places) and still be able to use a keyboard
and mouse. Not sure how that would work, but if I could figure it out I'd be
rich and skinny before you know it!

~~~
subpixel
I think this would be entirely ineffective, but it exists:
[http://www.kickstandfurniture.com/](http://www.kickstandfurniture.com/)

------
mark_l_watson
There was a walking desk near my desk at Google. I found the walking desk,
with a large monitor for my laptop to be ideal when I had to catch up on email
and reading. Typing while walking was not as good.

Since I normally work from a home office my wife has been trying to talk me
into buying one. I probably would not use it enough because I have four
different working locations at home.

One more thing: a "get up and walk timer" is a good idea. On days when I don't
use a timer, I don't feel as physically comfortable at the end of a long work
day.

------
reedlaw
Substitute "walking" for "standing" and all these troubles go away. I have
walked many 8 hour shifts with only a lunch break in between. A walking desk
is not much more difficult to make. Get a treadmill from Craigslist and then
find a bookshelf to put the monitor on. Or stack some boxes on a desk and put
the monitor on top at eye level. Or you could even attach the monitor to the
wall with an inexpensive wall mount.

------
kevingadd
I used to be able to stand for 6-8 hours a day back when I worked at a coffee
shop, but I can't do it anymore. Maybe it's just because I got out of the
habit, or because I got older, but standing in place in the same position for
more than a couple hours is exhausting.

On the other hand, walking around for hours isn't bad at all, so maybe there's
something specific about standing still that creates more exertion?

~~~
moron4hire
In college, when I worked as a cook at Waffle House, I'd frequently do double-
shifts, 16-hour days standing. But it's a lot of movement, you're constantly
moving from the food stock to the griddle.

My father is on his feet all day. He delivers bread to grocery stores. He is
constantly speed-walking. He usually has about a 10 minute drive between
stores, where he of course sits in his truck, and spends about 45 minutes in
each store.

Now that I work from home, sometimes I take a shower to think. That's only
tangentially related.

------
upofadown
I thought the hotness was the treadmill desk. Why would someone want to stand
around all day?

The fix for this (and most things that office people think they have
discovered) is well known in the working world. You just need a tall stool to
slouch on from time to time. There is a place between sitting and standing.

~~~
moron4hire
Came here to make the stool comment.

I had a standing desk for a while, and I also had to have a stool. Actually, I
built the stool, because I didn't have any money at the time, but I did have
plenty of scrap wood. I then had to move to a new city, so I no longer have
access to the shop where I used to keep my desk.

I sort of miss that stool. It was terrifying to sit on, which I think of as a
feature. Nobody else in the shop ever wanted to sit on it, so they could never
steal it from me.

~~~
subpixel
I use this at an adjustable desk:
[http://store.focaluprightfurniture.com/mogo.html](http://store.focaluprightfurniture.com/mogo.html)

It rules. It encourages a lot of lateral movement, and I find myself using it
about 50% of the time my desk is high.

I generally stand in the am, and then lower my desk to sit in the afternoon (I
use a second-hand Aeron).

------
conradfr
135 degrees would never work with me, I battle all day to not stay in that
position because it makes me sleepy.

When I see his photo I think I can watch a movie in that position but working
I doubt it, I need to feel more "engaged" with the keyboard, the mouse, the
screen, if that makes sense.

------
X4
The OMNI solves the issue with monotonic muscle use, that arises with
classical Treadmills:

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-
na...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-
your-favorite-game)

------
DontBeADick
The author never thought to get a drafting chair so he could continue working
while sitting?

Mind boggling...

------
fexl
I've been doing the 135-degree thing for many years, much like the picture
there, but without the foot rest. I make sure to squirm around on occasion,
and I get up and stretch and walk with the dog regularly. So far so good.

------
jedanbik
Are those Markus chairs from IKEA really comparable to the ilk of Herman
Miller et al.? I'm wondering if the road trip to try one out is worthwhile.
Please share your experiences if you own one.

~~~
Expez
The herman miller chairs offer far better adjustability than the IKEA Markus
chair. The Markus is a good chair for its price, but they're not comparable.

~~~
marknutter
Although Herman miller chairs are more adjustable I find that the lack of a
head rest causes people to fall into really bad habits. At work we have very
nice Herman Miller chairs without headrests and you see most people slumped
back in their chairs with their necks craned forward. I have the Markus at
home and because it had a head rest it allows me to stay comfortably in a
position where my head is properly balanced over my spine.

------
ronyeh
For an alternative to standing, check out the FitDesk:
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CM9CBZY](http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CM9CBZY)

I use it every day.

~~~
Kiro
I would love that but with support for dual screens and not just a laptop.

------
Void_
It worked for me very well until spring came, and I started doing sports. It's
really hard to stand if you've just spent two hours working out.

------
kjjw
Step 1: Move to a house or flat about 1.5 miles from the office you work in.
Step 2: Walk to work.

What's that? The accommodation near your workplace is much more expensive and
so you wouldn't be able to afford your massive suburban American home?

Then sell all your cheap crap and then move, you fat American.

~~~
kjjw
My apologies if this seems like a troll, it is not.

It is blazingly obvious to everyone outside of North American that their
health woes are down to a reliance on cars, cities built to accommodate cars
and an overconsumption of sugar.

It is incredible that they haven't managed to figure this out yet.

~~~
adestefan
Since you're so all knowing maybe you can also chastise Europeans for their
dramatic increase in obesity rates, too.

~~~
smacktoward
And Chinese, and Mexicans, and South Africans, and...
[http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2014/jan/03/ob...](http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2014/jan/03/obesity-soars-alarming-levels-developing-countries)

