
Paypal Bans Usenet Providers Over Piracy Concerns - cleverjake
http://torrentfreak.com/paypal-bans-usenet-providers-over-piracy-concerns-12112
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ChuckMcM
Chrome popped this up from the torrentfreak page:

Google Chrome has blocked access to this page on torrentfreak.com. Content
from ox-d.traffiqexchange.com, a known malware distributor, has been inserted
into this web page. Visiting this page now is very likely to infect your
computer with malware. Malware is malicious software that causes things like
identity theft, financial loss, and permanent file deletion. Learn more

~~~
ernesto99
I think this is coming from the (big name) ad network we're using.

Disabled the ads for now and will probably switch to Paypal donations... Oh
wait...

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farhanpatel
Usenet is under attack.

A lot of TV/Movie companies are starting to send DMCA requests to usenet
providers.

The other day SabMini a iOS client for sabnzbd had to remove support for
sickbeard(a PVR for usenet)

I think we are seeing the systematic destruction of Usenet.

Usenet won't go away but just become harder. Releases won't be named correctly
to avoid getting DMCA notices.

Looks like someone broke the first rule of Usenet...

~~~
Axsuul
I have seen no evidence of this destruction.

~~~
nekojima
In the last two or three months I've found it increasingly difficult to find
new postings under their titles on my Usenet provider. I wasn't sure initially
if it was their search function that was broken/corrupted, but asking Helpdesk
doesn't help when they cut you off if you ask for assistance on copyrighted
material. Finding another term that doesn't give replies but that should be
there, as an alternative, is rather tough.

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noonespecial
Copyright bullies make me mad, but this does have the effect of sussing out
the weaknesses in the system when all that is at stake is last weeks "Honey
Boo Boo". Its like a trial run for the real deal.

By the time real hardcore censorship tries to become a world-wide phenomenon,
the internet will already be well optimized to circumvent it.

If all that comes of this is a strengthening and legitimizing of bitcoin, its
still a net win.

~~~
freshhawk
If the internet was clearly winning this fight I would agree. I still partly
do since if you had to pick something to do a trial run, this is a decent fit.

The legislators and pro-censorship international treaty writers are also
getting a lot of practice. And they seem to be innovating faster and winning
more battles than the internet.

~~~
noonespecial
I think they're just teaching a lesson that the internet has until recently
been slow to learn. Centralization is bad. Single-pass bottle-necks like
Paypal are worse.

Bitcoin is crazy until it isn't. Its a lot of effort and risk to buy access to
a forum that has a few silly TV shows. Not so much when its a patented drug
you need to survive that's only available in rich countries to the "right"
people.

~~~
freshhawk
Hmm, I think I'm just more pessimistic than you are. I agree except for the
part where you implied that the internet has recently been learning anything.
Centralization is the big new thing. People talk about the solutions but none
of them are really succeeding.

Bitcoin has a serious fight ahead of it. The US does _not_ treat alternative
currencies well historically once they cause any kind of trouble. It would
likely have already happened if there was any single group or person that
could be arrested to shut it down.

~~~
noonespecial
>It would likely have already happened if there was any single group or person
that could be arrested to shut it down.

Exactly.

~~~
freshhawk
That's it's best defense sure, but there are other approaches that will be
tried. It could quickly be illegal to accept bitcoins or exchange them or
perhaps to convert them to dollars or vice versa. They hit liberty dollars
with counterfeiting, wire fraud, mail fraud and all sorts of barely-applicable
charges.

Bitcoin will always survive internationally but it can pretty easily be
blocked from being a useful factor in this issue in the US. Historical
precedent tells me that's extraordinarily likely. Hopefully I'm just too
cynical.

------
cschneid
When my paypal was broken into - it was immediately used to order from a EU
based usenet provider.

Paypal reversed it for me, but I wonder how much of this is fraud related?

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robk
This is really bothersome that they're trying to monitor activity on these
sites. Paypal has absolutely no place doing that.

------
bkor
Interesting in light of the questions asked by the EU about the control of
payment providers. Those questions were specifically about WikiLeaks, but the
same applies to usenet providers as well as private torrent sites.

------
csense
If you're upset at Paypal's behavior and you're building a startup that
involves payments, please look into at least offering the option of
alternative payment providers.

~~~
infectoid
Honest question. What are some alternatives that aren't likely to pull a
paypal?

~~~
csense
There's been buzz on HN about Stripe, Dwolla, and Bitcoin.

Of course, you shouldn't take my word for it; check them out yourself.

------
tomjen3
Well more business for Stripe (not that they needed it).

~~~
jamoes
No centralized payment provider is immune from US law. Eventually Stripe will
suffer the same fate.

~~~
DannyBee
Can you please point out the portion of US law you believe requires paypal to
do this?

~~~
weego
I expect he would think that it was the unwritten part called "strong-arming"
by various interested parties.

------
jebblue
Chrome warned me there is a malware connected site on that page.

~~~
Groxx
Hit esc before the page finishes loading - kills the connection that loads
whatever it is that connects to the flagged site.

~~~
Havoc
If chrome detects malware it'll block it on its own.

~~~
Groxx
I'm running chrome - this works on my machine™. The malware isn't the _page_
so you're not prevented from navigating to it, it's in some ad dynamically
loaded, which <esc> stops from happening. Unless your internet connection is
quite a lot faster than mine, there's plenty of time in between page display
and ad load => blocked page warning.

~~~
cynwoody
Thanks. Your suggestion worked for me.

Of course, it could also be that the site rotates ads and only loads the
malware some of the time.

------
dmix
+1 for bitcoin.

------
rhizome
I have to wonder if this is a big fuck-you to the world after the EU's moves
against Visa over Wikileaks yesterday. "Sure you might be able to clamp down
on _them_ for policing content, but watch what _we_ can do."

------
nekojima
While my credit card company and bank allow me to purchase online without the
intrusion and privacy violations that PayPal regularly insists on, I continue
to see no reason to use PayPal.

------
freshhawk
I'm so glad we've moved past that boring old money. Remember the kind that
could be used anywhere and for anything?

Now my money tells _me_ what I can and can't spend it on!

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driverdan
There is an upside. The more BS like this that PayPal pulls the more people
will stop using their service.

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lectrick
Usenet providers switching to Bitcoin in 3... 2... 1...

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drivebyacct2
Well, maybe this will motivate BitCoin payment methods on these sites. I need
to change providers anyway, I'm not happy with mine. Last time I looked, I had
only found one provider that accepted BitCoin and they were considerably more
expensive (more than the BitCoin markup I was ready to pay even).

