
Ask HN: Need advice.My story:Once an $90k jQuery developer,now a “useless lamer” - baybal2
I worked as a web dev for 9 years and wrote my first website for money when I was 16. Yesterday, I came for a job interview and was called &quot;a useless lamer&quot; by unshaved, hoodie wearing CTO after a long argument about whether jQuery is obsolete.<p>I finished last contract in April, and didn&#x27;t manage to get a new one since then. Before, I thought that skill obsolescence is just an excuse to fire old, unproductive people, now it became my own issue. There were years when I was getting multiple calls from recruiters in single day,but I got only 3 calls in the whole 2015.<p>I understand now that my past success was only thanks one trendy buzzword on my resume, and that the hoodie CTO who was interviewing me was 90% right.<p>My weak sides:
&gt;I never learnt any real OOPL. I didn&#x27;t even study JS as a programming language
&gt;Bad credentials: BCIT marketing and no-name college in Russia where I studied 1C
&gt;Never made connections in the &quot;hip tech,&quot; with ones who wear hoodies, use Macs and buy coffee in Starbuckses.I always preferred to work with &quot;Serious People,&quot; who were in their majority completely computer-illiterate
&gt;My English is good, but I have a terrible Russian accent despite the fact that I lived 1&#x2F;3 of my life in English speaking countries
&gt;I spent most of my career in Canada, but I never bothered to get a PR as I thought that employers will always be eager to get me a work permit, and it is better to not to become a Canadian taxpayer for life.<p>I spent 95% of my savings on buying my first apartment last year. What I have now will sustain me until the end of the year.<p>What should I do now? Learn React and lie about my past experience? Go to places with less competition, like London or Singapore?<p>More importantly,what should I do as a person? Continue trying to make a living in Canada, or return to a soon to be North Korea redux Russia? All of my classmates are on the path of settling down,and I believe I am the only one without plans for life
======
partisan
First of all, calling someone a useless lamer is about as unprofessional as it
gets. Next, don't get into an argument during an interview. State your points
and if they don't agree, move on. Take some of what they say with you as food
for thought. Take the interview as a learning experience and learn from it.

Next, you probably need to go back to the basics. Pick up an introductory
programming textbook, in PDF form if you are cutting your expenses. Learn
basic OOP, basic algorithms and data structures, runtime complexity,
functional programming, understanding when you would choose what tool. There
is nothing worse than a senior programmer who can only think in the paradigm
of the programming language they have accidentally built their career upon. If
you don't demonstrate a basic understanding of these things, and aren't able
to speak to the above within the context of jQuery, then you are at a
disadvantage.

Learning another framework is not the solution. It's a bandaid at best. You
will just find yourself in the same position again in a few years when your
tool of choice falls out of favor. Break the cycle by becoming a software
engineer.

In terms of your living situation, congratulations on buying a place. If you
run out of time or money then rent out your apartment and move abroad where
you can live on a lower cost of living, but I think you can and should make
your stand now against becoming a useless lamer.

------
nostrademons
Well, you've taken the first and hardest step by admitting that the hoodie CTO
was 90% right.

The next step is to figure out what _is_ hot and learn it. React is a good
candidate. So is native app development, although native app developers are
finding that the indie market is basically tapped out and most of the
opportunities are in contracting. Rust may bring a resurgence of system
programming & low-level development. Hardware is hot but I don't know if it'll
last. VR could be big but who knows whether it'll actually take off.

You don't even have to lie about past experience. Just build a portfolio
project that shows you're competent in the new tech, put it up on GitHub, and
explain that you were a JQuery dev but have recently updated & modernized your
skillset. Companies love employees who are willing to stay current on their
own time.

Remember that you can't ever settle down in today's economy. Your classmates
who are doing so will have their own rude awakenings in a decade or so. That
doesn't mean life has to be miserable though; it just means learning and
uncertainty needs to be built into your life. You're far from the only one
without plans for life; indeed, oftentimes the ones with the firmest plans are
the ones most adrift when those plans inevitably don't pan out.

Good luck.

~~~
undercoderjobs
Good advice!

------
bbcbasic
There is a lot of colorful talk in your post and replies about hipster
behavior and hip languages. A successful IT career has nothing to do with
where you drink coffee, which brand of personal computer you use, and whether
your clothing has facilities for keeping the wind off your face. What really
matters is you can deliver value to a business. Yes some companies (or hiring
mangers there) don't value that and it is all about ridiculous signalling i.e.
what frameworks are cool vs uncool and other such nonsense. In my experience
(my Australian-European experience anyway) most companies just want developers
who can solve problems reasonably quickly, fit in with a team, and appreciate
quality.

Yes some jobs may require specific experience, like they want extensive React
experience for example. If this they are this fussy they should pay more. Most
companies will happily see evidence that you know JS well. My advice is to
disregard anything a person who calls you a 'useless lamer' has to say as this
person is probably not an authority and needs to grow up.

Instead keep learning on the intersection of what interests you and what will
help you get hired. Go to more interviews and take note of the questions they
ask you. As an example I was often asked about SOLID principles in interviews,
so I took time to learn it. Actually it was pretty useful and I use SOLID in
code review discussions now. (This is just an example and I am no sure it will
apply to Javascript)

Learning OO is a good idea. C# and Java are probably to most popular and are
quite easy to transition to from JS. In a nutshell fuck this douchbag who
called you a lamer. I'd listen to a donkey's opinion before I take this guy
seriously. Go to more interviews, find out where your knowledge is missing and
fill it in.

Finally don't lie on your CV, you won't need to.

------
a-saleh
If I were in your position, I would probably do these steps:

1\. Make sure I know where do I stand with my personal safety net. Will I have
problem with visa? What is my 'runway', i.e: when will I start having problems
with paying rent/morgage? You say you have money until the end of the year.

2\. Then I would plan for some sort of worst-case scenario, probably something
along the lines "If I don't get decent contract in 3 months I am moving
somewhere cheaper", and plan accordingly, probably selling the apartment,
making sure all my paperwork is in order, e.t.c. Probably would start
searching for positions abroad in 2 months time?

3\. I would try to polish up my resume. Maybe find a way to pivot from "I an
awesome jquery guy" to "My UX design is awesome and I can talk to the
'serious-people'" (Basically the main idea of patio11
[http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-
pro...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/))

4\. I would probably try to get at least some visible experience in something
else than jquery. On one hand this would be to prove myself that if if I would
want to pivot myself to "I am a UX guy and don't care about underlying
technology that much" to try out if that is actually true. Second, to have a
$NON_JQUERY project on my resume. I would probably try to call some of my
friends (maybe at my local church) if they needed some landing page or
something, and hopefully in a month I would have something like a "React
landing page for $local-church-url" on my resume. Ok, might not be react,
might be angular 2.0, or whatever. (Disclaimer, if somebody asked how did I
get Xamarin experience on my resume, I wouldn't be that far from this made-up
example :)l

------
zhte415
The amount of 'advice' here about "Yeah, learn React." Or "You still have 1000
hours of productivity" are ridiculous and frankly curdling.

You had a bad interview that drove you to be sufficiently uncomfortable to
reach out for advice. It happens, it sucks. I'd hate to be anywhere near the
person that interviewed you, based on your description. An interviewer is a
flagship/ambassador for a company.

Technically, I have no advice. Go your own way. Understanding a need and
delivering a solution is far more important than choosing a particular stack
to do so with. Because you've delivered a solution. Iterate, absolutely. Don't
get all waterfall about what framework is best.

jQuery is far from dead. Indeed, it is 'cutting edge' in consumer finance.
Stay with serious people, they're genuine. They may also wear hoodies, or
sandals, or whatever they like, but probably don't carry 3 days of stubble
because it's fashionable. Because doing a good job, and delivering a good
product, is important, regardless of technology. Even PHP still rules the web!

------
steve_taylor
Learn React. You are already highly experienced in web development and there's
no need to throw that all away if you can simply replace jQuery with React and
bring a few other things up to date (e.g. Node.js, build tools, etc.). React
is easy and quick to learn, very powerful, and in demand in the employment
market.

~~~
afarrell
How to learn? Take a look at [http://survivejs.com/](http://survivejs.com/)
and then [http://teropa.info/blog/2015/09/10/full-stack-redux-
tutorial...](http://teropa.info/blog/2015/09/10/full-stack-redux-
tutorial.html)

------
liquidcool
Here's my advice as a developer/manager/recruiter:

\- get a great book on JavaScript and learn it well, including idioms

\- for interviews (and to be a better programmer) take a data
structures/algorithms course, there are many free online. I've got a big list
of resources here:

[http://www.madeupname.com/programming-interview-
preparation-...](http://www.madeupname.com/programming-interview-preparation-
resources/)

\- React is getting more popular, but I do extensive research on the job
market and in California at least, AngularJS has about twice as many jobs as
React. I'll add that Node.js is an absolute juggernaut. But if you've only
done front end, stick with it for now. Plenty of work for an AngularJS expert.

\- if you can't get paying work, contribute to an open source project any way
you can. That always impresses hiring managers.

------
Jemaclus
Gonna echo what everyone else has said. My addition as a hiring manager is
this: I'm far more interested in what you've learned recently than what you're
an expert on. If your expertise directly contributes to my company's projects,
that's a huge bonus, but I'd really rather hire a go-getter who is willing to
take risks and learn new technology. In that light, my recommendation to you
is to learn a new technology (React is a good one). Build an app to learn,
then build a second one to apply the lessons you learned from the first one.
If you're any good at Javascript, it shouldn't take more than a few weeks to
get the basics of React, etc, under control.

My second piece of advice is to never let yourself get in this situation
again. Continually research new tech as they come out. You don't have to jump
on every new bandwagon, but when something piques your interest, set aside
some time to learn it. Once you master React, you might think that learning a
server side language would be useful, so you could dig into Go or PHP or
Python. But no matter what, don't stop trying new things. Read documentation
religiously. Pretty soon it'll be relatively easy to jump from one platform to
another, since a lot of the concepts (MVC, OOP, etc) are transferable across
languages and frameworks.

Finally, don't argue in interviews. You can have a healthy debate, but if you
sense any pushback whatsoever, drop it and move on. If I'm interviewing
someone and they argue (read: pushing back with the intent of "I'm right and
you're wrong") with me about something, that's a big red flag that we won't
get along and I won't hire them. Instead, perhaps another skill to work on
would be to determine how to debate calmly and rationally and somehow learn
the art of persuasiveness (I've never mastered this, myself). As one of my
mentors told me recently, try to divorce yourself from the notion of "i'm
right". It might be true, but it's not useful when making friends or
impressing people in interviews.

Don't let it get you down. Good luck.

------
mbrodersen
Just a quick note: The CTO you mentioned is an unprofessional amateur. Don't
believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Also: REALLY learn Javascript!

------
Zelmor
You have until the end of the year? That is over 1000 hours to put into
learning a new skill, building 2-3 projects, and apply for jobs as you build
up confidence.

Start today.

------
undercoderjobs
Hey! You need a good Tech Agent. Contact us, free consult. Let's see if we can
help.

------
saluki
Ok, so you just bought an apartment so decide if you want to stay where you
are. Second decide if you want to keep your apartment, if you own it that
could give you a really low 'run rate'.

If you like where you are, own your apartment I don't think moving is the
answer. Moving is expensive. I think most developers can work remote.

So you have 6 months of run way right now till the end of the year. Cut back
on spending and expenses to stretch that out and preserve as much of your
savings as possible.

Network, network, network. Do you have any past clients who have a remote
project you could work on? Or even a remote full time position. Even at a
reduced rate that would extend your runway. Maybe improving or a re-write of
an old project or app over to angular or react?

Should you expand your skills beyond front end? Learn Rails or Laravel with
React, Angular or Vue on the front end to become a full stack developer or
maybe focus on front end with backend skills.

You always need to be evolving/learning. jQuery is awesome but declining in
use. So think about what you want to do next.

As far as your resume polish it up to show more specifics, UI/UX, front end
engineer, then just a section on technologies you use rather than a showcase
of jQuery this and that.

jQuery will always have a place in projects but It is waning. Also no arguing
technology in interviews. If you're joining their team you're drinking their
kool-aid and doing what they do as a team player.

I would spend the next six months getting some remote work and learning a new
skill. If you could find a previous client/project looking for a re-write that
might be a good fit as you can learn and make money (even at a reduced rate
would work).

Do not worry about what your classmates are doing. Remember you are a
successful developer, $90k/yr, just bought an apartment, moved to a new
country. Maybe stay off Fbook the next 6 months till you have things sorted
out.

Sounds like you have the skills, focus on getting work and learning expanding
your skills.

oh, one more thing you mentioned mac. If you're not a mac user you should
consider switching. It seems like a small issue but moving to mac definitely
improved my development experience and helped me leveling up my skills. When
you're learning Rails, Laravel even React/Angular/Vue most tutorials are OSX.
Doing them on windows you always seem to run in to unexpected errors and
issues when running through the tutorials. Then you'll spend hours tracking it
down on your windows machine. Do the same tutorial on a macbook and you'll
sail right through. So I think there is a huge value moving to OSX. A 13"
macbook air is enough for a developer. I would consider making that purchase,
they definitely pay for themselves in time savings.

And since you'll have a mac consider a hoodie too, it might help you with your
networking. = )

Good luck sorting it out.

------
pvsukale23
learn Golang . Its the language of future .Also it doesn't follow obsolete OOP
concepts. Its easy to grasp. Once you grab a good grasp of this language you
can develop web apps .But the main advantage learning Golang is it can also be
used to program highly concurrent systems. This language is not just a "trend"
its here for long game. People are already using to develop system programs
such as os containers (Docker) , Databases , Network Systems etc. have a look
[https://tour.golang.org](https://tour.golang.org)

~~~
Zelmor
Obvious troll is obvious.

