

Four African girls create a urine-powered generator - jfc
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/11/07/forget-apps-and-other-useless-startups-these-four-african-girls-have-created-a-pee-powered-generator/?utm_source=Twitter&awesm=tnw.to_chiG&utm_medium=Twitter%20Publisher&utm_content=Forget%20apps%20and%20other%20useless%20startups:%20These%20four%20African%20girls%20have%20created%20a%20pee-powered%20generator

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ColinWright
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752986>

[http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=title%3Auri...](http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=title%3Aurine)

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kordless
Do you remember these, or do you do a search on each link? Just a-wondering!

~~~
ColinWright
I remember when I've seen something, and I've written tools to perform quick
searches and create the text. I then confirm by hand, and copy-paste that
text. It takes seconds if the search shows what I think I remember, and about
a minute if I need to work harder.

More, when I do the searches I often stumble across other items by accident,
and I've made several happy discoveries in that manner, so I don't think of
the time as wasted. In this particular case the search for "Urine" in the
title turned up some other interesting articles in addition to the earlier one
for this story, one which already had discussion, which people may have missed
without the cross-reference.

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DanBlake
Unfortunately this looks to be mostly puff-press since we are dealing with a
trifecta of minority-in-startupland (black, female, third-world country)

This weird contraption obviously uses more power to make hydrogen than it
takes to run it. (Unless we are breaking some laws of physics?)

I also see no mention of why using urine is better/worse than just using
regular water. I am guessing because "Putting electricity in water generates
hydrogen" is a less exciting title.

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whatshisface
Urea is easier to break down than water. (0.37V as opposed to 1.2V) I'm no
chemist, but I think that making an unstable chemical into a stable(er) one
gives off energy.

Also, if it wasn't a viable way to get energy than it wouldn't run at all. I
don't see any wire going into a wall socket or anything, so I assume if they
had it run for six hours like the article implies there has to be /something/
there.

My main issue with it is having what looks like a gasoline generator run on
hydrogen. Doing the necessary tweaks raises the technical complexity of this
by an order of magnitude.

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DanBlake
Article mentions a charged electrolytic cell. Charged from outside power?

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whatshisface
I did a ctrl-f for charged in the article and didn't see it. Where did it say
that?

If that is what it is, though, the entire thing is pretty much fake because a
charged electrolytic cell is the same thing as a charged capacitor.

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overgun77
I honestly don't understand all the money and hype around "world changing"
startups that creates a product or service that offer some kind of
amusement/entertainment or solving a "real world problem" such as the need to
know what restaurants are near one person or how much one spends in potatoes.

I wish projects like this had more support, from offering sponsorship or
scholarship to the people involved in the project to do more research or
prototypes, to big companies offering to help on the research of that project,
something like that, and hopefully leave aside the cookie-cutter world
changing android app we see every week and start focusing on things that
matter. I have the feel we have become a stagnant society as far as innovation
and discoveries go, we focus all our energy, money and interest in
entertainment rather than in discovery and humanity development.

~~~
ars
It's a nice sentiment, but this project isn't real. They are basically using
those girls for publicity.

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mistercow
>1 Liter of urine gives you 6 hours of electricity.

"Hour" is not a unit of energy.

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jt2190
Here's a link to google's cache of the original blog post on Maker Faire
Africa's site:

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7Tim1l5...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7Tim1l5Ay4UJ:makerfaireafrica.com/2012/11/06/a-urine-
powered-generator/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

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thorick
while I applaud the initiative, someone might want to explain to them what
'Rube Goldberg Machine' means... As others have commented there's no gain
here, it would be just as well to store the solar or wind power that charged
the 'electrolytic cell' and keep the energy there rather than then using that
captured energy to separate out the hydrogen.

edit: as some have pointed out, yes one could just run the wind generator
'directly' into this device and use the intermittently produced hydrogen as
the storage mechanism..

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outworlder
Except that hydrogen (in gas form) is not that easy to store to begin with and
likes to leak from containers.

The most efficient hydrogen storage we know is... fossil fuels.

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nsxwolf
Sounds like this system puts out less energy than it consumes.

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DanBC
Do any (eg gasoline) generators put out more energy than they consume?

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miahi
There is no pure energy generator. All the generators are transforming one
form of energy to another. The chemical energy from gasoline is transformed to
heat (thermal energy) + mechanical energy + other forms of chemical energy
(CO, CO2 and others). The mechanical energy is then transformed into more heat
and electric energy (if we're talking about an electrical generator).

What makes gasoline a good energy "producer" is the simple way the chemical
energy can be released and the percentage of usable energy (the efficiency of
the generator). What makes other substances bad energy producers is the
efficiency and complexity of changing the energy to usable energy (like
mechanical or electrical energy).

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scjr
> 1\. Urine is put into an electrolytic cell, which separates out the
> hydrogen.

How does this part work

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negativity
If you stick a pair of charged contacts in a container of water, you'll see
bubbles produced at each contact. The cathode produces hydrogen.

Go get a 9 volt battery and try it right now. Just drop it in a cup of water.
Presto! Hydrogen!

Use solar power as a source of electricity, and who cares about efficiency?

~~~
ars
So what does that have to do with urine?

Use the energy from the solar panel directly, why convert it to hydrogen and
back to electricity?

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Luyt
The idea is that their electrolysis unit is fed by the generator, which is in
turn fed by the hydrogen from the electrolysis unit. To make the contraption
somewhat more scientific-looking (and less suspect), they've put two water
filters in the loop, presumably to 'purify' the hydrogen.

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stcredzero
Does the article say that the generator runs the electrolysis? I don't see
where it does.

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jfc
These girls banded together and built something. Whether it's a rousing
success or ends up being a bad idea, there is something positive to be said
for their efforts. If you consider the cultural context in which they are
operating, they deserve praise for this.

Heck, we praise people who build failed webapps here in the US, in part
because it's an exercise in execution. When people build new things, it's
great even if it doesn't work out, because who knows what it could lead to?

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gammprog
Did anyone read "<http://www.suttonfruit.com/pics/urea_electrolysis.pdf>
linked within the article. That's a paper that illustrates direct hydrogen
production from urine without electricity (a chemical process)! Making the
whole idea a little more plausible.

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jtchang
I am awestruck that there may be a day we all have urinals in our bathrooms
because it helps lower our electricity bill.

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bitteralmond
Anything that uses electricity to take hydrogen out of water will use more
electricity than it produces.

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gammprog
<http://www.suttonfruit.com/pics/urea_electrolysis.pdf>

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HarryHirsch
When you read this paper closely you will recognize that the authors have
discovered a way to remove bound nitrogen from effluent. It's possibly an
advance over the well-established biological reduction of nitrate, considering
that instead of putting energy in in the shape of methanol you can recover a
part by burning the hydrogen the process generates - possibly in the sewage
gas plant that you already have on site.

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csmatt
My friend works for a small startup in SF called Fenix International. Their
device for providing power in places like Africa is much more promising
www.fenixintl.com/

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jackpirate
You could at least explain the basics behind how the device works rather than
making us type in a url. As it is, I have no interest in looking into your
friend's product.

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csmatt
Sorry, I posted from my phone just before a meeting.

The device is called ReadySet and is a high-quality personal power generation
unit with battery for storage. It can be powered by putting it beneath the
rear wheel of a standard bicycle or the included 15-watt solar panel.
<http://www.fenixintl.com> <http://kck.st/LP5NjI>

