
New iPhone SE - CoachRufus87
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/04/iphone-se-a-powerful-new-smartphone-in-a-popular-design/
======
andrepd
I was itching for this announcement, not because I want to buy an iPhone, but
because this will finally mean other manufacturers will start to make compact
phones.

It drives me up the wall that I simply cannot find a reasonably competent
phone (i.e. mid/upper range from the past 4 years) which is not absolutely
fucking huge. It's insane that the "phablet" standard from ~5 years ago is now
not even the new standard, but the only standard.

~~~
spurgu
> It's insane that the "phablet" standard from ~5 years ago is now not even
> the new standard, but the only standard.

Utterly insane.

I replaced my SE with a Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact yesterday. It has a 5" screen
and decent specs (2018 flagship). About as small as you can get a mobile
nowadays, sadly.

And wow how I've missed Android, the UX is soooo much better in most aspects.
I can't believe I was stuck with iOS (as an experiment) for almost 1.5 years.
Reason being that I hadn't been able to find anything below 5" in the Android
world.

~~~
Razengan
> _And wow how I 've missed Android, the UX is soooo much better in most
> aspects._

iOS has its problems, but every time I have to handle somebody's Android (i.e.
to help them do something faster than telling them), I want to give it back as
quickly as possible.

~~~
camelNotation
I feel the same way when someone hands me an iPhone. In 2020, the operating
systems are equally capable and refined, it's just a question of what you're
used to. If you had a great Android phone for a few months, you'd probably be
just as comfortable with it as you are an iPhone.

When someone asks me what phone to buy, my answer is always "what phone do you
have now?" because frankly, there is no reason to switch from one to the
other. It's just a waste of time and energy to go through that.

~~~
kortilla
Unless you care about privacy, in which case the answer seems to be iPhone. I
haven’t found a good Android experience that doesn’t involve funneling
everything to Google.

~~~
searchableguy
You can atleast remove the googleware to a great degree, you can't do the same
for iPhones easily.

Huge difference. You have fdroid, apk slicer and alternative stores without
google gate-keeping. You can reflash your phone with ungoogled android or open
source alternative gapps package. Use microG to sandbox google stuff.

There are ton of ways to contain googleware.

~~~
xtian
Which of those do you think are accessible to the average user?

~~~
sudosysgen
All of them if someone else does the initial set up, from first hand
experience.

~~~
xtian
What about updates or when something goes wrong?

~~~
searchableguy
Does google provide you support when something otherwise go wrong? No. Unless
of course it's a pixel.

And I have a custom rom which gets update every month. Ungoogled. :)

~~~
square_usual
The comparison you should be making isn't with Google, but Apple.

My experience with custom ROMs was unfortunately a lot worse than yours. I had
the original Galaxy Note, and picking a custom ROM for that was a "Updated,
has features, doesn't kill your battery - pick 2" kind of deal.

------
ksec
1163 Comment right now, ~800 Are about Size of Devices. I thought there was
another important point.

The current entry level iPhone; iPhone SE 2020 with A13 is now faster in
Single Threaded performance than _ALL_ current shipping Android, including
Flagship Android. And judging by the Qualcomm roadmap, this will likely remain
the same in 2021 as well.

This is important if you are doing or using Web Apps like Discourse which
requires JS processing. The Cost of javascript is still huge. [1] [2]. And
While Mobile Apps are well optimised to take advantage of multiple cores, it
will still be bounded by Amdahl's law[3].

And a point on devices size.

Japan, the nation which prefer single handed usage and small size Smartphone,
and has a hand size smaller than average, median or general US / EU
population, has overwhelmingly voted with their pocket on the 4.7" Devices,
and _not_ the previous 4" iPhone SE. Even During the iPhone 7, iPhone 8 era.

So I do suggest before people writing off 4.7" as being large, please try and
give it a go first.

Another Point worth pointing out, once the tech for FaceID Shrinks to small
enough or could be done under display, a 4.7" Edge to Edge Face ID Design
would be _exactly_ the same size as the previous iPhone SE. I believe this
could be the long term goal for Apple.

[1] [https://medium.com/@addyosmani/the-cost-of-javascript-
in-201...](https://medium.com/@addyosmani/the-cost-of-javascript-
in-2018-7d8950fbb5d4)

[2] [https://v8.dev/blog/cost-of-javascript-2019](https://v8.dev/blog/cost-of-
javascript-2019)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law)

~~~
bruxis
I'm not sure why you cite Japan as an outlier regarding size preferences and
smaller-than-average hand sizes, which I generally do not believe to be true
and could not find any hard data to cite (source: I live there).

Regardless, the iPhone SE did not sell _as_ well in Japan due to a variety of
factors, not the least of which being that the iPhone 7 introduced built-in
Suica support.

Suica is a mobile cash card technology used at stations for transit,
convenience stores and restaurants for purchasing, and vending machines --
among others. Given the lack of support by many credit cards for Apply Pay in
Japan (for example, you cannot add a Visa card to your iPhone due to JP-
specific Visa restrictions), it's no surprise that this was a major selling
point of newer models.

In my opinion, manufacturers have not provided a high-end, small form factor
device to sufficiently test the markets. Without doing so, it's too easy for
people to make the claim that people have already voted with their wallets for
larger phones. I sincerely hope the rumors of a 5.4" iPhone 12 are true (as it
should be somewhere between iPhone 5 and 6 form factors, from what I gather).

~~~
psychomugs
In my time abroad in Japan, I found that bringing a small bag was almost an
imperative compared to the US where it still seems taboo. This relaxes the
pocketability constraint so bringing a larger phone isn't as big of a deal.

~~~
mnky9800n
What? Why is it taboo to have a bag for your stuff?

~~~
vbezhenar
It's not cool and many people prefer to be like everyone rather than using
what's convenient for them.

For example using short dress for men probably is more convenient as it allows
better cooling for their genitalia which is important for reproductive
function and generally for health. Yet outside of Scotland dresses are not
considered an appropriate for men and nobody even dares to use them.

~~~
72deluxe
Nobody in Scotland wears them either TBH! It's cold up there.

~~~
rs23296008n1
Some would say drafty. Especially without underwear.

~~~
72deluxe
A good kilt is heavy and warm and if you wear one to a social gathering, it's
a hot thing to wear. But wearing it outside is a brave thing to do,
particularly in the damp cold air of autumn/winter.

Probably why they have long socks/hose to stop your legs freezing.

~~~
rs23296008n1
What sort of low temperature is a kilt still comfortable outside without long
socks etc?

~~~
72deluxe
I am not brave enough to try it. I am not sure where you are but the UK has a
lot of moisture in the air so low temperatures feel a lot colder than
equivalent temperatures elsewhere in the world. eg. a 5°C day will feel a lot
colder here than Iceland.

------
coldpie
Yes. I'm an Android user who is absolutely sick of phablets. I have a Pixel 3A
(5.6") and it is way, way too big. I've been quite excited about this iPhone
SE announcement. However, the lack of a headphone jack is a huge negative, and
4.7" is the absolute largest I think is reasonable. A little smaller would've
been ideal. I'm undecided on whether to switch to the SE, but I genuinely hope
it sells like crazy. Then maybe the Android copycat manufacturers like Google
will copy the small form factor, but add in a headphone jack. One can dream...

~~~
hajile
My current phone has no headphone jack and it's been an absolute pain the
whole time. Adapters are hit-or-miss and generally suck. Even high-end devices
(mine was over $800) often have hissing due to the analog signal running
fractions of a millimeter from a bunch of digital signals.

Adding insult to injury, music objectively sucks with bluetooth. A good DAC
takes space and power. Multiple drivers take space and power. Bluetooth modems
require space and power and generate interference simply because they are
modems. When you try to shove all of that inside a tiny earphone, there are
going to be massive tradeoffs.

~~~
throwaway287391
Comments like this always make me really glad that I've never tried "good"
audio equipment. I think music sounds great with my Sony XM3s and even my
AirPods, and I don't have to travel with a DAC to experience it. _shrug_

~~~
williamdclt
On one hand you avoid frustration, on the other hand you miss out on greater
enjoyment.

~~~
throwaway287391
I think I'd mentally adjust to the improved quality as the "new normal" pretty
quickly and not get much out of it thereafter, leaving only the frustration
when I couldn't have my audiophile quality. Seems like there's very little
upside in it for me personally. I don't doubt that some people can genuinely
sustain additional enjoyment out of it though.

~~~
snazz
I've noticed this trait with myself in a number of other aspects (operating
system--no way I'm going back to Windows after having used Linux for years!),
but luckily I haven't been spoiled by other people's good audio equipment yet.

If you haven't gotten into high-end audio already, I'm guessing you're not the
type who "listens to equipment" as opposed to listening to music. So long as
you're paying more attention to the music than the minute differences between
exponentially more expensive pairs of headphones (or DACs and amps), you're
probably not going to have the problem you're afraid of. I can rarely hear the
difference between my midrange Sony wireless headphones and my friend's super
fancy open-back headphones when there's an equalizer profile applied to each
to make them sound similar.

------
threepio
"Popular design"? On the contrary. As an iPhone SE owner, this is exactly the
form factor that fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) rejected as being too
large.

~~~
threepio
The most perplexing part has always been the positioning of the SE as the low-
price iPhone.

As an SE fan, I would happily, HAPPILY pay $1000 every two years to keep
getting upgraded internals in the current form factor.

Yes Apple, I'm sure it's harder to fit those parts in a smaller case. That's
why you should charge me more!

It's not a matter of Ludditry. That form factor is ergonomically ideal for a
certain kind of phone use. That's precisely why it was so successful for so
long.

~~~
save_ferris
I have a conspiracy theory that Apple redesigns the form factor every few
years so that the "gotta have it" people are forced to upgrade to the latest
and greatest device, and those with last gen's model feel that they need to
keep up with the Joneses.

edit: I think this is a very real, but subconscious aspect of Apple culture
and it exists across all of the product lines. Phones just happen to be one of
their biggest products.

~~~
pubstik
Cars were like this when they were the conspicious consumption item of choice.
Every year, new designs. Not always better, but forever permutation so old
parts don't fit and so that the 2 year old models already looked 'dated'. Now
we have phones as our way to show our buying power.

~~~
mthoms
This is also the entire model of the fashion industry.

------
ivraatiems
As a current iPhone SE user, here's my assessment:

Pros:

* Feature set in terms of processor, camera, etc., is exactly what I want

* Continued presence of Touch ID is a huge plus, I don't like Face ID

* Price point is, admittedly, fantastic

Cons:

* Lack of headphone jack is still unacceptable

* Form factor is, candidly, still too big for my tiny hands

* Color schemes aren't as nice as the SE's (can I contribute to COVID-19 research without getting a bright red phone?)

I will be considering this phone, but skeptically. Would be ideal for me to be
able to physically hold one before buying, but not sure that'll be possible
(maybe I can borrow somebody's iPhone 8).

~~~
wiremine
> Lack of headphone jack is still unacceptable

I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack in
my iPhone 11. I have the Echo earbuds, and those have been good to great for
my use cases.

This continues to feel a bit like the 3.5 floppy and CD-ROM removals from the
Mac: a lot of people hated it, until it was a nonissue.

~~~
outworlder
> I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack
> in my iPhone 11

You don't miss it until you do. When you are trying to join a meeting and your
bluetooth headset absolutely refuses to work (and yes, even the fancy Airpods
Pro do that occasionally), you wish you had the ability to just plug in an
old-fashioned, analog headset. Which you can pull easily, with no fuss, from
many devices, including computers and gaming consoles. Quick, no pairing
required. No battery issues.

Analog headphones are also very cheap(good if you are not in a rich country),
and will always be cheaper than bluetooth headphones, as there is minimal
hardware required. You can quickly pick one up even from a shady street seller
and you know it will work(longevity might suffer, but again, cheap).

The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard.
It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone.

~~~
blattimwind
> The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard.
> It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone.

The 2020 iPhone SE is much bigger than the 2016 iPhone SE and almost 50 %
heavier. This argument seems invalid to me.

~~~
saagarjha
It is thinner, though, with more hardware inside of it.

~~~
ianai
The thicker 16 SE actually felt more comfortable than these thinner phones.
And this is from someone who went SE to 11 pro.

------
bluedevil2k
An upgraded iPhone 8 with a starting storage of 64 Gb at only $399. Seems like
a great deal. Makes me seriously consider this model for my next phone instead
of spending $1200 on an iPhone 11 Max.

~~~
jseliger
A while ago I quit buying new models and switched to refurbished ones. The 7 I
had did more or less what its predecessor did (car services, chat, remote
camera control) and the one I have now (X or Xs?) does more or less what the 7
did.

I can afford the newer ones, but I don't see the value relative to the four-
figure cost.

~~~
_bxg1
When I got my XS ($1000) it was because I planned to keep it for a long time.
It's been a year and a half and I have zero complaints of degradation in
speed, battery life, etc. Still feels like new. I plan on keeping it for four
years at least. Compare that to the $500 phones of the past that would limp
across the two-year mark and it's really not unreasonable.

~~~
333c
I don't think this is the comparison that you're drawing, but I'd like to
point out that my current iPhone SE has been doing well for three years (other
than a battery replacement), and I think it has at least one more year left in
it. So it's not just the top-end phones that have staying power.

~~~
_bxg1
That's fair, though I'd think refurbished phones won't do quite as well, but
who knows

~~~
throwanem
That depends a lot on what's meant by "refurb". I've had some that had had a
screen and battery replacement, and they work and last like new, as they
should. I've also had some that were sold as "refurbished" despite having had,
at most, a wipe down with Windex to get the fingerprints off. Those don't do
so well, but if you're handy, you can do your own refurbs with $80 in parts
and an hour or so of work, and get the same like-new result modulo whatever
damage exists to the case.

------
youeseh
If the new one would have kept the design of the old one but added a full
screen and updated cameras - that would have been perfect.

I get the feeling that I'm part of a large niche with whom the old iPhoneSE
saw success by accident.

~~~
parsimo2010
The new iPhone 12 Pro is supposed to have a smaller screen than the 11 Pro and
have squared sides, which basically means it will be shaped like the original
SE, have a full screen, and the best cameras. Except for the price, the exact
phone you want will probably be out later this year.

~~~
skrebbel
> shaped like the original SE

But bigger, right?

~~~
parsimo2010
Yes, but it will be smaller than the 6/7/8 line. The overall dimensions
haven’t been leaked, but a 5.4” screen is 93% the size of the 5.8” on the 11
Pro. If we scale the outer dimensions by the same amount, the 12 Pro should be
133.8x66.4 mm, which is in between the original SE and the 6/7/8 lineup.

Edit: after re-reading the leaks, it seems like the vanilla 12 is getting the
smaller screen and not the Pro. So maybe we won’t have a smaller phone with
square sides.

------
rgovostes
Like many here I prefer the (original) iPhone SE due to the small size. Rumors
of the iPhone 12 say that there will be a smaller model with a 5.4" edge-to-
edge screen. I wanted to see how the size of that device would compare to the
SE.

If we assume that the iPhone 12 would have the same aspect ratio as the iPhone
11, and that the "margins" between the edge of the device and the edge of the
screen will be the same as well, we get:

    
    
       iPhone 12 (5.4") is 2.69x5.30"
       Body size is 26.67% larger than the iPhone SE
       Screen size is 62.27% larger than the iPhone SE
    

That is only 1.3% smaller than the iPhone SE 2 released today. This device
size is here to stay.

~~~
Nition
They could fit a 5" screen on the SE form factor if it was edge-to-edge like
the iPhone X, or keep the old SE 4" screen, make _that_ edge-to-edge, and make
the phone itself even smaller.

Shown to scale: [https://imgur.com/OKZiWrN](https://imgur.com/OKZiWrN)

I'm a bit disappointed but not surprised they took neither of those options
for the new SE.

~~~
saagarjha
Of course, there’s no way they’re going to call it the iPhone SEX.

------
Nition
> The first iPhone SE was a hit with many customers who loved its unique
> combination of small size, high-end performance and affordable price; the
> new second-generation iPhone SE builds on that great idea and improves on it
> in every way.

Customers loved how it was both small and powerful, so we've improved it by
making it much larger...[1]

OK, I realise they mean "small compared to the ridiculous size of other
phones" here, but I still feel like they've missed the point. They could have
had the _only_ truly small and powerful phone on the market in 2020, on any
OS! No competitors. They could have even kept the exact same old SE size and
had an even bigger screen (5") if they went edge-to-edge.

[1]
[https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen&device3=iphoneX)

~~~
foundry27
They just don’t get it. This isn’t a replacement for the SE, because it
doesn’t actually improve on the things SE owners cared about improving. Things
like an edge-to-edge screen and a kick-ass camera in the same form factor, not
an iPhone 7 reboot with wireless charging and a faster CPU. What’s more, I
know I’m not alone in saying I’d be willing to pay MORE for an ultra-premium
small device like that than for any of the iPhone models being pushed as “top
of the line” right now, because there are no good alternatives. Unfortunate
letdown by the individuals at Apple who put this together, reminds me of the
‘97 Malibu.

~~~
ehsankia
Maybe us consumers underestimate how much space those internals take? The
larger screen to body ratio would not only take more space in an already tiny
phone, but the battery needed to power that would also need to be larger. The
old SE had a 1600mAH battery... which is half of the 3000mAh+ even smaller
phones have these days, and none of those lasts more than one full day.

So we somehow expect them to take the exact same form factor and somehow
magically get a 10% larger screen and 50% larger battery in there? My guess is
that it's just not physically possible to achieve that. Big chin and forehead
is the best we can get with the current battery technology for a phone that
size.

~~~
Nition
They could always make it X% thicker. We used to fit 15mm thick phones in our
pockets with no trouble in the old days. Not to say you're not making a fair
point. Although if it came down to it, I'd still much rather have the old size
even if it still had a 4" non-edge-to-edge screen.

------
aphextron
RIP to Apple's single greatest design, the iPhone 5 form factor.

~~~
Lammy
Maybe you should give an Xperia a shot?
[https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3189309/apple-sony-
iphone...](https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3189309/apple-sony-iphone-
design-inspiration-iphone-4-looked-old)

I'm only halfway joking since looking at their newest handset is still fairly
reminiscent with the flat edges:
[https://www.sony.com/electronics/smartphones/xperia-1m2?cpin...](https://www.sony.com/electronics/smartphones/xperia-1m2?cpint=XPERIA-1M2)

~~~
ashtonkem
The cost of switching ecosystems is too high for most of us. Loss of iMessage
alone is a non starter for me personally.

~~~
ryantgtg
Me too. iMessage is the one and only reason why I switched to an iPhone. My
family demanded it, because the picture/video quality in our group chats was
degraded for everyone because one group chat member (me) had an Android.

I got an SE. And now I'm seriously glancing at this new SE. Size is fine for
me.

------
sn_master
I use Pixel 4, and I absolutely hate not having a fingerprint sensor.

Cons:

* At night it doesn't work, because I am laying on the bed and half my face is covered.

* It doesn't work when I am not wearing my glasses. Annoying when I have just woken up or going to bed and want to check a quick notification.

* Sometimes it unlocks by itself even if I don't want it to.

For the headphone jack, I got a cheap USB-C ones and couldn't be happier.
Bluetooth just doesn't work all the time. It sometimes refuses to pair for
random reasons, specially if you paired it with something else, you can never
be sure its charged enough, easy to forget it turned on and have the batteries
depleted etc etc.

~~~
zionic
FaceID is so terrible. It's hard to imagine a company based out of sunny
California invented an authentication system that requires you to remove your
sunglasses. It also sucks in any bright environment like say... the beach.
Which they don't have much of in California of course. When the ambient IR is
too high the sensor can't see it's own tracking dots on your face so it can't
build the 3D mesh to authenticate you. To make matters worse, FaceID also
fails if you have a face mask on which is particularly relevant today.

~~~
briandear
How should Face ID work with a mask that covers half or more of your face?
Doesn’t that defeat the purpose?

~~~
sn_master
Exactly. That's why having an under glass fingerprint sensor is such a good
idea.

------
werber
I haven't felt like Apple has been making products for me recently until the
Macbook Air release and now this. Sane price points, and the exact features I
need. Not sure what changed over there, but I'm really impressed.

~~~
totalZero
It's almost as if a major world event convinced Apple management to optimize
their product line for consumers who have less money to spend on devices.

Not sure what could have caused that, though.

~~~
Leherenn
It seems unlikely this was the cause though, you don't design and manufacture
a phone in 2 months.

Also there had been leaks for months now. See this leak from back in January.
[https://m.gsmarena.com/updated_iphone_8_might_arrive_with_fa...](https://m.gsmarena.com/updated_iphone_8_might_arrive_with_face_id_bigger_screen-
news-41022.php)

~~~
totalZero
You certainly choose pricing within those two months.

~~~
1123581321
This is the pricing people have been expecting for awhile.

~~~
totalZero
That's a kind of vague assertion as I don't know to whom specifically you're
referring as "people," but the same phone at 449 would be another 12% to
margin so "in the same ballpark as what some people were hoping" is not the
same as "pricing that the market anticipated."

Let's assume there was a speculated range. In a world with COVID-19 demand
pressure and the speculated range is reasonably accurate, Apple is more likely
to target the low end of that range than it would in a "normal" world.

I think people don't like the sarcastic nature of my earlier comment but that
doesn't mean the underlying notion is wrong.

I find it hard to believe that Apple ignored reality and just priced the phone
however it felt like doing prior to a major shift in their consumer base's
economic habits.

~~~
1123581321
I am not sure what you are saying, to be honest, since any price point above
$400 would increase margin. If you’re saying Apple seeks the highest margin
possible, I don’t agree - they aim for 39% and increase revenue by increasing
component quality thus cost. Unlike, say, the HomePod, they aren’t
compromising this phone with an older chip to save money.

Apple analysts, tech reporters, and consumers who pay attention to phone
prices were expecting the new SE to be the same price as the old SE. Although
there was also a case to make for the SE directly replacing the 8 at $449,
there’s little evidence they were planning on that number.

If you are asking where the long-term price pressure on Apple would come from:
it largely comes from India, where they need as cheap a phone as possible to
break in without damaging their brand or resorting to a cheaper bill of
materials.

But again, I am not sure if I understand your point. I would like to.

------
dougmwne
I have to wonder if it's a marketing mistake to call this phone an SE. Most of
the people I know who were sticking with the SE did so because they loved the
small size and form factor. It seems that offering an upgraded iPhone 8 to
those people is going to fall flat.

That said, this looks like a fantastic bargain. One of the best cameras and
fastest chips on the market on a $400 phone with years and years of OS
support.

And in my own opinion, a 4" screen is obsolete these days because app and
mobile web design has moved on to larger devices. 5" is even starting to feel
cramped on some apps like Google Maps.

------
donohoe
Why couldn't they have kept the flat sides of the 'current' SE... ? That form
factor is still the best.

~~~
tumaru
No doubt cheaper to reuse the existing iPhone 8 chassis. Probably a fair bit
cheaper to manufacture at this point too.

------
bryanlarsen
This is not a small phone. It's almost the same size as the Google Pixel 4
which has a 5.7" display.

SE: 5.45" x 2.65" Pixel: 5.79" x 2.71"

~~~
_xander
It's not too bad. I'm a huge proponent of the one-handed phone after using a
Nexus 5 for 6.5 years. I think there are two main contributors to one-handed
usability: (1) volume of the chasis, with a particular focus on width and (2)
screen size, with a particular focus on screen height.

In terms of (1), the SE is in line with the Nexus 5 (and actually less wide),
whilst the Pixel 4 is slightly bigger in all dimensions:

    
    
      N5: 137.9 x 69.2 x 8.6 mm (5.43 x 2.72 x 0.34 in)
      SE: 138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm (5.45 x 2.65 x 0.29 in)
    

In terms of (2), a 4.7" screen with a 16:9 ratio is far easier to reach the
top corners of than on a 5.7" that's 19:9. Yes, there is a bit less bezel on
the Pixel 4 but it'll still be very difficult to reach the top one-handed with
the taller screen.

Specs source:

[N5]
[https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_nexus_5-5705.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_nexus_5-5705.php)

[SE]
[https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_(2020)-10170.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_\(2020\)-10170.php)

------
tazjin
The old iPhone SE had two things that appealed to me (and anecdotally, that
appealed to some of my friends):

1\. it was small-ish 2\. it had a headphone jack

Without those I don't see this as a viable followup product.

~~~
developerdylan
It's still viable for most people. Most people will be okay with the included
pair of wired headphones.

~~~
motge
I use my EarPods with headphone plug on a number of devices. The one with the
Lightning connector is only useable with Apple devices, so this is again a
vendor lockin. This has to stop.

~~~
KMnO4
I just bought a few lighting-to-3.5mm adapters and leave them permanently
affixed to my various headphones. Seems like a simple fix, versus perpetually
being upset that I can't use my headphones on my iPhone.

------
m_eiman
Old iPhone SE:

123.8 mm (4.87 in) H

58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

7.6 mm (0.30 in) D

Mass 113 g (4.0 oz)

New iPhone SE:

Height: 5.45 inches (138.4 mm)

Width: 2.65 inches (67.3 mm)

Depth: 0.29 inch (7.3 mm)

Weight: 5.22 ounces (148 grams)

(Copy-pasted from various places on iPad, sorry about inconsistencies)

~~~
davidkuhta
Thanks for sharing. Did a quick reformat:

    
    
      |------------------------------------------------------|
      |  Dimension |        Old         |        New         |
      |------------------------------------------------------|
      |  Height    | 4.87 in (123.8 mm) | 5.45 in (138.4 mm) |
      |  Width     | 2.31 in ( 58.6 mm) | 2.65 in ( 67.3 mm) |
      |  Thickness | 0.30 in (  7.6 mm) | 0.29 in (  7.3 mm) |
      |  Weight    | 4.00 oz (113.0 g)  | 5.22 oz (148.0 g)  |
      |------------------------------------------------------|

~~~
corey_moncure
Look it's 300 micrometers thinner!

------
egypturnash
_eyes the specs_

 _eyes her 6s and the very nice earbuds that can still plug into it_

 _ponders other things she could do with $400_

I miss the Actually Small form factor but I've gotten used to the slightly
larger 6s and I sure don't miss it four hundred bucks plus the cost of some
bluetooth earbuds and having to hassle with keeping the bluetooth Square
reader powered up the next time I sell stuff at a comics con.

I think this is a fine day to buy a new case to replace the one that I got
along with the phone. It's been slowly falling apart and I'm worried it might
not save the phone the next time I drop it. Twenty bucks for a black Speck and
ten bucks for a gold accent Popsocket. Sounds good.

~~~
rubatuga
You also get tap payments with the Bluetooth square reader which is much more
seamless of an experience for the customer.

~~~
egypturnash
You are forgetting the seam where it goes to sleep after a while when it’s not
being used every few minutes, and needs to be reconnected while the customer
is waiting. In a crowded convention hall full of thousands of other vendors
doing the same thing.

Oh, and the seam where if you _do_ get it to connect to your phone, you then
have both your phone _and_ the customer’s phone fighting to get a connection
to a tower saturated by people sharing their con photos/videos, streaming, and
trying to process credit card transactions. It’s bad enough with _one_ phone
trying to authorize the transaction.

Also the seam where it’s one more damn thing to run out of power when you are
at a table with nowhere to plug in because you are not gonna be moving enough
stuff to be worth paying a couple hundred extra for the power fees unless you
are a small press with the work of a dozen or so creators on your table.

~~~
elsonrodriguez
Please stop you're going to give me nightmares about waiting for the freight
elevator parking to free up.

~~~
egypturnash
Ah, I see I am not the only person on this site who is familiar with these
_pleasures_.

------
sequoia
According to this:
[https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen&device2=iphone8&device3=iphone6s)

This looks like basically the same phone as the 8 & the 6s. I own a 6s, I'm
wondering what the advantage is to buying this phone rather than replacing the
battery on my current phone.

Hilariously, some of the changes between models seem to be mostly renaming
features.

    
    
        6s: HDR for photos
         8: Auto HDR for photos
        SE: Next-generation Smart HDR for photos
    

Looks like this one "goes to 11"

Also funny is battery life:

    
    
        SE: Lasts about the same as iPhone 8
         8: Lasts about the same as iPhone 7
         7: Lasts up to 2 hours longer than iPhone 6s
        6s: —
    

So the new SE lasts about the same as two hours longer than "—" Got it!

~~~
OberstKrueger
The A13 chip will be a huge upgrade and guarantee OS support for quite a
while, even if a lot of the other specs are the same. If the 6S manages to
survive getting OS updates this year, it probably won't next year.

And Apple usually goes for a target battery life that stays fairly consistent
across generations. It creeps up slowly over time, but very slowly.

------
mavidser
I am apparently in the minority here who prefers faceID, mostly because how
transparent it is UX-wise. I don't have to do an additional 'Authenticate'
press when opening protected apps, instead I pass through the security while
the app loading animation completes.

Though, it has been hell now with using face masks for the past few weeks,
where I have to spend 5 seconds on every auth-screen, where it tries faceID
twice and then gives the option of PIN authentication.

~~~
rzimmerman
A lot of people complain that Face ID doesn't work when they wear skiing gear
or a mask. I'd argue that most humans can't identify me when I wear a mask, so
it's a bit hard to expect my phone to do better.

I do prefer Face ID for almost everything except payments. Apple pay with
Touch ID was a much better experience. The awkward double tap + stare at my
phone for 2 seconds isn't great. Having an Apple Watch makes this much better
but I do miss placing my phone near the reader and putting my finger on the
sensor.

------
kayoone
I don't really get the hate for the lack of a headphone jack tbh. Have people
complaining about this ever really given good bluetooth headphones a chance?
My Beats Solo 3 have fantastic battery life, i can switch between devices with
a click of a button (in the case of the Bose QC35 even be connected to two
devices at the same time, listening to music on the laptop while being able to
receive phone calls on the phone) and the sound quality is absolutely fine.
Sure, an audiophile DAC with high end headphones will have better sound
quality, but do you really need that on a phone?

~~~
Nition
I don't know about everyone else but I sometimes use a 3.5mm to RCA cable to
play music from the phone through a stereo.

~~~
javagram
Same, except my stereo has a 3.5mm in.

I have several pairs of Bluetooth headphones but still use the 3.5mm jack on
my SE all the time, and I use a 3.5mm lightning adapter with my iPad Pro.

------
Tade0
One of the biggest advantages of the first gen SE (aside from size) was its
sub 120g weight - my SO has one and even with the protective case it's very
easy on the hands - especially when lying down and holding it in the air.

The current gen weights almost as much as my Galaxy S8, which is objectively a
rather heavy object to be held for extended periods of time.

All in all I was meaning to get her one once it's released, but given the
weight of the device that won't happen.

------
graeme
Quick comment about sizes and popularity. This is the size of the iPhone
6/6S/7/8 form factor. There are a LOT of iPhone models of this type.

They're bigger than the old SE, but effectively a fair bit smaller than the
X/XS/11 Pro format, which has a much larger screen to manage.

So, this phone gives those of us who liked the 8 body size an upgrade path.

David Smith compiled iPhone usage stats for his app. The iPhone 6/6S/7/8 had
47% share. The iPhone 5s/old SE had 11% share. The X/XS/11 Pro size had 12%
share. So, this new SE is an _extremely_ common and and popular design.

[https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of-
th...](https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of-
the-4-dot-7-inch-iphone/)

~~~
hrktb
I guess you are really comparing screen sizes ?

The physical size of the 8 and this new SE is pretty much the same as the X/11
Pro (it's only smaller 5~6mm in height, 4mm in width, 0.4~8 mm in depth). If
you were holding up on your 8 because of that, I'd say you can fork the 1000+
bucks for the X or 11 Pro, it will be an upgrade in every dimension except
Touch ID disappearing.

~~~
graeme
Yup, screen sizes. The 11 pro form factor has a lot more screen dimensions to
cover when using one handed.

It’s also a lot heavier.

------
cdubzzz
Quick size comparison of the two generations --
[https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen)

------
rawrmaan
As a son, I am sad that my mom will not get to have her preferred screen size
(4") in her next phone.

As a developer, I'm ecstatic that I'll never have to think about supporting a
tiny 4" screen again.

~~~
lucascantor
I’d assume this new SE, like the 6, 6S, 7, and 8 before it, will continue to
prompt users during the initial out-of-box setup process if they want to run
their display in “zoomed-in” mode, making the resolution effectively identical
to the 4” screen of the older smaller phones.

This is effectively an accessibility feature, but Apple proactively prompts
users to enable it.

------
xenonite
How come that the "white" variant is not "white" on the front side? Like it
has always been the case until iPhone 8?

This is a huge disappointment for me. The big reason to have white screen
borders is to reduce contrast to light screen backgrounds, which is so much
easier on the eyes when reading. And also, white front side is a design
classic. Its removal is even a reason for me not to buy the new SE2.

~~~
plainOldText
I was wondering the same thing. I’m glad I’m not the only one.

Plus, the white front would have made it look much more elegant IMO.

~~~
xenonite
I am also glad to hear that. Yes, I totally agree that white is much more
elegant.

Maybe this outcome is an effect of Johnathan Ive's departure?

~~~
plainOldText
It could be. I don't know who designs the iPhones these days, although Jony
Ive is claimed to still count Apple as a client of his new company. I don't
know if his heart is.

One thing is certain to me, the black front makes the white version
incomplete, and noticeably so, as if someone was inching towards "perfection",
but then gave up.

I'm still sporting the white iPhone 7, btw.

~~~
xenonite
Yes, I think you depict it well. Stopping just before the mountain peak.
Sadly, the black front seems to be the new thing since the iPhone X.

Maybe someone will manage to switch out the new SE's black front with a white
iPhone 8 front :-)

(still enjoying the classic SE in white here, along with several white iPads)

------
AdmiralAsshat
Now why can't we convince Android OEMs that decent specs in a small design is
a worthwhile endeavor? The Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact is the last one that comes
to mind.

~~~
aphextron
There's plenty of decent small Android phones. The problem is that they run
Android.

~~~
coldpie
No, there really aren't. Trust me, I spent days researching this and ended up
with the Pixel 3A phablet that I hate. There are exactly zero decent Android
phones <= 4.7".

~~~
adequateness
And in the past year, there were precisely 2 Android phones with <= 4.7"
screens. Lava Z40 and BLU Advance L5. There were zero that were as narrow as
the original SE.

------
eps
I am a die-hard SE owner, so I guess _this_ is something, but...

Camera is sticking out.

Edges are over-bevelled.

But at least they kept Touch ID.

------
forgingahead
Original SE user here (and I have a spare sitting unwrapped on my bookshelf as
a backup):

I'm disappointed by the lack of a headphone jack and the size, while better
than the phablet nonsense, is still bigger than I would like.

I'm actually not sure what I will do after these phones go kaput, I only use
my phone for calls, music, Whatsapp, and maybe maps (though with travel
completely halted for the medium term, I don't even need that). If there was a
feature phone version of Whatsapp, I'd probably go back to one of those.

~~~
snazz
WhatsApp runs on KaiOS feature phones, which are marketed to developing
countries. Google Maps and YouTube also have official support:
[https://www.kaiostech.com/explore/apps/](https://www.kaiostech.com/explore/apps/)

------
jakear
Glad to see a non faceID option. I'm on an 11 Pro currently, will probably
sidegrade to this.

FaceID is incredibly unreliable in my opinion, and it almost always takes more
time that touchID did. Furthermore, "Reachability" (the feature where you
slide the UI down for easy access with one hand) is _much_ more difficult to
access and dismiss with no home button. It's rare I don't accidentally invoke
some UI action when trying to dismiss reachability mode (mistakes include:
dialing additional numbers, super-linking on tinder, clicking on links in
websites, etc.)

Apple seems to know this, the store workers I spoke with when I was purchasing
the phone admitted it was difficult to use.

Is it rose colored glasses, or would old Apple never release products that the
Apple Store workers have to tell you are "difficult to use"?

~~~
DangerousPie
Repeating myself here but for me FaceID actually does feel like an
improvement, despite my many doubts about it in the beginning.

Yes there are some occasions where it doesn't work well (when you're trying to
unlock the phone without looking at it properly) but there are also many
occasions where it works much better. Most of the time my phone now unlocks so
smoothly that I don't even realise it was locked. I just take it out of my
pocket, swipe up and I'm on my home screen.

Agreed on reachability though, that has never worked well for me either. I
just avoid using it now.

~~~
jakear
If there were a quick way to switch over to pin input, and furthermore the pin
input would constantly be looking for your face rather than needing to switch
out of pin mode to try for faceid, it might be okay.

Two situations make faceid unusable:

1\. I’m in bed and bedding materials occlude my face.

2\. I’m using my hair to purposefully occlude my face in areas with public
surveillance

In both of these situations touching the home button would be much easier.

~~~
ryan93
Do you actually cover your face when around public cameras.

~~~
jakear
When I’m feeling particularly pessimistic yes. More as a statement than real
protection though. Gait analysis has all screwed anyways, but there is value
in requiring more expensive systems to be tracked. Delay the inevitable.

See [https://cvdazzle.com/](https://cvdazzle.com/)

------
bythckr
As an iPhone 5, 5s & SE user; pass, its too big.

Apple still doesn't understand why users like me still stick with iphone SE -
the size.

------
Traster
80% of the way to a iPhone 11 Pro for 40% of the price.

~~~
jaywalk
That 80% is arguable. But probably 90%+ of the people buying the SE wouldn't
have bought the 11 Pro anyway.

------
Eliezer
I care about absolutely none of this except weight, which they're not
announcing. What a mockery of a successor to the SE name. I guess I'll hold on
to my current SE until that's absolutely untenable and then abandon the iOS
platform - really hope there's some more secure Android option by then.

~~~
xenonite
weight: 148g

------
srg0
A $300 (EUR500) phone in 2020, and its screen resolution is 750 x 1334
(according to GSMArena, because Apple doesn't mention it). Sadly, that's not
enough to watch FullHD videos. An attractive form-factor aside, weird
resolution of the lower-tier iPhones (XR, 11, SE 2020) is a non-starter for
me.

~~~
globular-toast
It's a small screen and that's a normal resolution. You need to look at pixel
size, not number of pixels. You wouldn't be able to see "full HD" detail on a
4.7" screen.

~~~
srg0
I use a 5.1" screen, and I can see the difference very well. I also watch a
lot of FullHD screencasts, and while the phone screen is too small to do read
everything, most of the text is still readable. The trick is to watch the
original 1080p video.

The problem of the in-between resolutions is blurriness introduced by scaling.
1080p content is very common, text rendered to such images is already
rasterized to take advantage of that resolution. iPhone has to downscale 1080
lines and to 750 lines, the scaling factor is 0.6944. There is no way that the
text will remain sharp and readable. So the text in most videos will not only
be a bit smaller (that's physical screen size, 4.7 vs 5.whatever), but it will
be blurrier. Low cost 720p screens have the same problem, but at least the
scaling coefficient (2/3) allows for sharper result.

The problem is particularly evident with text, but it applies to all minor
details

------
ruffrey
I've been repairing an old iPhone SE for quite a while now, holding out for
Apple to listen to customers like me saying "I want a decent phone that fits
in my pocket." This makes me so happy, just like when I held onto a 2015
macbook pro until they went back to a "regular" keyboard.

~~~
wool_gather
> customers like me saying "I want a decent phone that fits in my pocket."

This new one is exactly the same size as the 6, 7, and 8 that have been
available for years...what about it has changed the situation for you?

~~~
ruffrey
I guess I missed that. Seeing the 4.7 inch screen spec made me think it was
smaller than Apple's other current phones, closer to the original SE.

Original SE:

123.8 mm (4.87 in) H

58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

7.6 mm (0.30 in) D

New 2020 SE:

138.4 mm (5.45 in) H

67.3 mm (2.65 in) W

7.3 mm (0.29 in) D

------
dceddia
I guess the size escalation is just like with cars. It seems "nobody" wants
smaller phones or cars, so every time there's a new model they get bigger.

As a person who does actually prefer smaller phones and cars, it's a
disappointing trend. "Buy used" or "deal with it", I suppose.

------
fjni
The 5/5s/SE form factor is beautiful. Why mess with it? Give me upgraded
internals on that and I’ll buy it immediately. It feels a bit like they have
to justify to themselves that they’re doing work by proverbially and literally
smoothing out the edges until all phones just look alike.

------
betaby
Too large. Does anybody know a modern Android phone with the size of the
IPhone 5?

~~~
cko
The smallest one I've found that's usable is Sony Xperia XZ1 compact. It's a
late 2017 phone. But it's around the same size.

------
Apocryphon
As an iPhone SE user, I am sympathetic to those who miss its screen size.
However, as someone who also remembers how desperate the market was for an
iPhone with larger real estate around the 5/5S/5C era, and how evolutionary
the iPhone 6 was when it came out, I am fine with it being a compromise size.

I also understand that last year’s X-cessively large phones have conditioned
users to be resigned towards huge pricy devices, thus making this new SE more
dramatic-seeming.

------
boourns311
If you're an Android user looking for a small phone, I feel your pain.

I've had one of these for about 6 months and I absolutely love it.

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KP8J8YN](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KP8J8YN)

Disclaimer: I have NO affiliation with this company at all. I'm just a happy
user.

Pros:

\- built-in rugged case. I've thrown it around the office with no issues

\- incredibly small. It fits in the watch pocket (fifth pocket) of your jeans
comfortably

\- waterproof. Because it fits in my jeans pockets so well, I accidentally
washed it with my jeans after a spill. The only piece of clothing in that wash
cycle was my jeans, and the phone fell out at some point. It must have banged
around in there for 15 minutes; but after the wash was done, I grabbed the
phone and unlocked it with my fingerprint. No worries.

\- some of the best BT and GPS I've experienced in an Android phone. (And I've
owned Nokia, Motorola, and Sony Xperia phones).

\- reasonable battery life for a phone of this size

\- everyone tells me speakerphone sounds great

Cons:

\- the camera is literally a potato. Don't buy this to take photos with.

\- good luck typing on this incredibly tiny screen. But instead I use
Android's voice-to-text which works great.

I took a chance and it is an absolute marvel.

~~~
barbs
How often do you have to charge it?

------
tentboy
I'm on a three year old iPhone SE that I recently had the battery replaced in
(An incredible use of $50 if anyone is fining their phone dying all the time)

I am really tempted to get this. I love the small form factor of my SE but I
have large hands and the bigger screen might be a bit nice, and I really wish
the camera was bit nicer on my current SE

~~~
emerongi
The SE is great but my battery is quite bad now and as soon as it gets below
room temperature, the battery drops from 50% to 10% and then starts turning
off.

Probably will be changing the battery and keeping my current SE, the new one
is not the same form factor. Agreed on the camera.

~~~
tentboy
Yep thats what happened with mine. i sent it back to Apple and had the battery
replaced. I tried to make an appointment at the apple store but it said it
wasn't available, maybe they don't have the parts for them in store.

Truly a night and day difference. When I leave for the day I don't have to
think about bringing my charger (although I still do sometimes in case of an
emergency)

------
alkonaut
I really wanted a phone with a current top level camera, and a reasonably
quick cpu as in a modern iPhone or Android. I consider the iphone7/8 to be
almost too big for one handed use, but it's it's worth it as a tradeoff for
the improved readability. The problems with the iphone7/8 size is mostly poor
legacy UX (Nothing should have to be clicked in basic, navigation above the
middle of the screen!).

I basically _had_ to upgrade from iPhone7 to iPhone11 to get a good camera in
an iPhone. The 11 is a phone that is both much larger and much more expensive
than I would like. So if the camera on this is as good as the main iPhone 11
camera, I would definnitely have gone for this one instead, had it been
available 6 months ago.

This is apple cannibalizing their own iPhone11 sales, a _lot_ I think

------
osel
This is just an iPhone 8 mk II (it even fits 8 cases!), and that means those
of us who want an actual SE replacement are now out of luck. Rather
disappointing.

------
buzzy_hacker
Devastated they increased the size, but saw it coming. It’s the same as an
iPhone 8, which is too big.

~~~
therealdrag0
I loved the SE, but now am on an 8 after it broke. TBH I adjusted pretty
quickly. It is a bit unstable to hold at times, but I rarely notice it. And
just as often I wish I had more screen real-estate such as to fit a PDF on
screen. :shrug: trade-offs.

------
newsrss
They rereleased the iPhone 6. What's there to be excited about?

This has nothing on the original SE.

~~~
ollien
It has upgraded internals, no? So it's the iPhone 6 with some beefier insides,
just like the original SE.

But yes, it has nothing on the original SE, since it has the same size as the
iPhone 8...

------
demarq
This is pretty much a flagship at below mid range price. It's like One Plus
and Apple just switched sides on this one.

------
kohtatsu
For anyone on the fence about trusting Apple's sell on privacy, I urge you to
check out these pages;

[https://apple.com/privacy](https://apple.com/privacy) this isn't the Privacy
Policy, just a very high level overview of investments/innovations (ETA 20-60
seconds)

[https://apple.com/privacy/features](https://apple.com/privacy/features)
deeper dive, no cute graphics, links to papers (3+ minutes)

They really, really messed up by not being upfront with Siri's contractors,
and they are not taking a hard stance on E2E iCloud Photos/Backups.

You can back up yourself using the native encrypted backup format using the
CLI on Linux/Windows/macOS using
[https://libimobiledevive.org](https://libimobiledevive.org) idevicebackup2

Using ifuse from them too you can read the SQLite database the Photos app
uses, see things like the on-device processed metadata (including recognized
faces, tho obviously not the face data from FaceID).

Using this I made a script to only transfer only favourited photos for my
girlfriend;
[https://gist.github.com/aurorabbit/592bbc76df317f86c1a6ef64c...](https://gist.github.com/aurorabbit/592bbc76df317f86c1a6ef64cc21244d)
(will work on linux too, surely Windows but idk powershell)

/info dump

------
green-bottle
Due to the planned obsolescence (via stoppage of security updates) of Android
phones within 2 years I had been seriously been considering buying an iPhone
SE2.

But I can't really justify myself buying it at the hefty price tag of $555 in
India. (The extra $155 being added due to the high custom duties on imports in
India.)

Salaries (at least for software developers) here being 1/4th of that of US
developer salaries or lesser makes even the $400 price in US not quite easy to
digest.

It seems I will be stuck with buying an Android One phone instead.

~~~
AnonC
Whenever the COVID-19 travel bans are eased in different countries, you could
ask someone to get it for you from the US (if you know someone, which may be
an impediment). This phone is also sold in the US in an unlocked variant that
can be used with any carrier.

------
nicwolff
Just a reminder that the terrific old 4" iPhone SE is still available
refurbished on Amazon for about $100. Runs the current OS and all apps. Camera
sucks by modern standards.

------
rchaud
The most interesting aspect of the phone for me is that it looks to have the
16:9 ratio that's been abandoned industry-wide for 19:9, which I find to be
extremely narrow.

I'm still holding on to my 4-year old Galaxy S7 because it's 5-inch, 16:9
display is just the right size. I have a newer 19:9 phone and even with fairly
large man-hands, I struggle to reach the corners of the screen with my thumb,
which is where most menu items are located.

------
petilon
You can get iPhone 6s for $100 from cellular carriers such as AT&T:
[https://www.att.com/buy/prepaid-
phones/browse/apple/](https://www.att.com/buy/prepaid-phones/browse/apple/)

I am sure the new iPhone SE has more advanced everything but if you're just
using it for text messages, occasional photo and Whatsapp you'll hardly notice
any difference.

~~~
Invictus0
What about 3 years from now? It doesn't make sense to stick with the 6s for
much longer, and I'm speaking as a current 6s user.

~~~
petilon
I am currently using the original iPhone SE and for my purposes it works just
fine. I use it for texting, Google Maps, checking stock prices, occasional
photo/movie, email, WhatsApp, bank apps, NYTimes app, Apple Pay. I had the
battery replaced last year and plan to use it for the next 3 years or until
Apple adds a compelling new feature to the iPhone (which they haven't for
several years). I dislike the newer iPhones because they are too big to be
comfortable in my jeans pocket.

------
jclardy
A lot of people are looking at this as a "replacement" for the iPhone SE
(original) - but I don't think that is what this is. It is the "upgrade" that
iPhone 6/6s/7 users have been waiting for. People that don't want the
relatively huge iPhone XR/11 (3/4" taller and 1/2" wider) and don't want to
spend $1k on the more reasonably sized iPhone 11 Pro.

------
kdtsh
People will get it or they won’t, the HN crowd is probably a fairly small
demographic compared to who Apple is trying to gear this towards: people who
want an affordable, new iPhone.

For my part (SE user of 2 years, and before that a 5s user), this fits my
needs pretty well, and it’s got the latest hardware. The lack of a headphone
jack was always going to happen, that’s just the way of the world and nothing
will change it - and realistically, carrying around a dongle really isn’t a
big deal if you’re going to be carrying around your phone and earphones
anyway, it’s just another small piece to keep attached to your earphones on a
semi-permanent basis. The 5s form factor would have been cool too, but that
was also never going to happen, because the SE is released in no small part
because there is a surplus of X device (previously 5s, now 8) and they need to
move old stock.

I’ll hang onto my SE until iOS 14 comes out, then I’ll get a refurbished SE 2.
I might be able to get away with getting an almost-new iPhone released this
year for around AU$600, that would be cool.

~~~
SECProto
> The lack of a headphone jack was always going to happen, that’s just the way
> of the world and nothing will change it

I just got a Galaxy s10e which has both a headphone jack and an SD card slot.
I choose to purchase phones that have the things I need in a phone.

(If I were committed to the apple ecosystem, I'd get one of these new SEs
because of the smaller form factor and lower price.)

~~~
kdtsh
What I mean is that new phones which have a headphone jack are the exception
rather than the norm, and their number seems to be diminishing. Maybe if
people voted with their wallets it would stop the development in this
direction, but it seems like too few people are concerned with this issue (I’m
one of them - it’s just not going to turn me off a potential phone).

------
jventura
No headphone jack and form factor > 4" it's a no-go for me..

I'm still on the 5S, my next one will be a SE 1 when my 5S blows up..

------
mleonhard
Apple's side-by-side comparison shows that their new phone is essentially an
iPhone 8 with a newer CPU.

[https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen&device3=iphoneSE)

~~~
adtac
iPhone 8: Lasts about the same as iPhone 7

iPhone SE (2nd gen): Lasts about the same as iPhone 8

Hahaha

------
julian_digital
Fingerprint Sensor = works with covid masks!

~~~
philsnow
But not covid gloves ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
hrktb
My 6S works surprisingly well with thin transparent gloves. They're white
color, but it seems they're thin enough to expose the ridges.

------
l31g
Better camera than the iPhone 8, supposedly same as the XR [0]

[0] [https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222104/iphone-
se-2-came...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222104/iphone-se-2-camera-
specs-apple-software-processor-smart-hdr)

------
vansteen
That's not really the SE I have in mind. My old SE has a 4" screen and the
weight is around 100g ...

------
Niccizero
Being a long-time Android user (not a fan, though) This is the first iPhone
I'd actually buy. I'm tired of huge phones with no bezels, they're not usable.
They are a pain in the ass, they are a literally a pain in your hand to use. I
halso ahte the notch with passsion.

------
jimbob45
No headphone jack?

~~~
judge2020
Nope: [https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/specs/](https://www.apple.com/iphone-
se/specs/)

------
cletus
So at my previous employer I kept separate work and personal phones. At my
current employer I decided I wasn't going to do that. Who wants to carry two
phones? Or pay for a personal service you barely use?

I'm fortunate enough that my work phone is (now) an iPhone 11 Pro. I routinely
go to Australia for extended periods and need a phone there. For years (>5) I
used the last personal phone I bought myself, the iPhone 6S, which was still
doing quite well since ~2 years ago it had a free battery replacement.

But I finally decided to upgrade this. I like the 11 Pro (particularly the
cameras) but I find the narrower screen a little annoying (compared to the
previous work phone, the iPhone 7 Plus).

But damn phones are expensive now. I couldn't justify the almost $2000 for an
iPhone 11 Pro Max and decided to spend "only" half that on an iPhone 11
instead. It lacks one of the cameras but it has a bigger screen than the 11. I
really see no reason to spend the huge extra on the 11 Pro or Pro Max.

But by God do I hate Face ID (even more so on my iPad). It's horrible. Apple
says the false positive rate on Touch ID was too high. I say the false
negative rate on Face ID is too high and this is incredibly frustrating.
Worse, Apple tries to make it more secure by forcing policies on you like 5
failed attempts means it asks for a passcode. Failed attempts include passive
fails where you just haven't positioned the phone right.

I think Apple just got rid of Touch ID to have more screen area, honestly.
That's not such a bad thing but what I'd give for an iPhone that had a
fingerprint sensor on the back (like the Samsung Galaxy S9 did, which I also
briefly used).

So the presence of Touch ID makes me almost want to buy one of these but I
can't go back screen size wise. As an aside, I am tempted to get rid of my
iPad Pro and replace it with the newer (non-Pro) iPad because those still do
have Touch ID.

This really is an updated iPhone 8 with a modern CPU. It seems like a pretty
good deal to me.

But please, Apple, give me a Touch ID option.

------
woah
Does anyone know if it includes ARKit?
[https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/tracking_and...](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/tracking_and_visualizing_faces)

~~~
dcoupl
Looks like it does support ARKit, source:
[https://www.apple.com/ios/augmented-
reality/](https://www.apple.com/ios/augmented-reality/) (bottom of the page)

------
microcolonel
Anyone else miss the 3:2 aspect ratio phones? If they made a device that
handles like an iPhone 4S but with smaller bezels, chin, and forehead (and
maybe slightly thinner, if they must), I figure that'd be a killer. Maybe it's
less of an issue now that most of their apps seem to support navigation from
the canvas rather than the top left corner of the screen (I don't know since I
have only ever used iPhones for testing, and not recently), but it would be
nice if an ordinary person could reach every part of the screen with a thumb
without adjusting their grip.

Also this phone isn't even compact, whether they slap the SE label on it.

------
Lio
Not really a big fan of the Lightning connector.

IMHO it’s a poor design.

The socket on this iPhone 6S+ is wearing out because the springs are in the
device and not the cable. It’s hit and miss if the phone charges now.

(I keep it still because I want an iPhone with a 3.5mm headphone socket).

~~~
crazygringo
Well it's got wireless charging now so many people will essentially never use
the Lightning connector ever.

~~~
Lio
It's slow though and somewhat inefficient compared to fast wired charging.

I really wish they would just upgrade the Lightning connector to the industry
standard USB-C port that Apple thankfully use on everything else.

~~~
crazygringo
It's tricky though. I _don 't_ wish that, simply because I don't want to have
to upgrade my Lightning-connector dock, speakers, pencil, HDMI dongle,
charging cables, and I'm probably forgetting a couple more things. When
customers have invested in an entire ecosystem around a connector type, we
really don't want to change more often than every 20 years or so.

And I personally don't care if it takes 1 hour or 7 hours to charge
wirelessly, I'm asleep. The times when I need to emergency-charge during the
day I can still use the port though.

~~~
Lio
I feel your pain with regard to loosing the lightning connector. For me I
guess I’d have to buy a new proprietary cable for my car.

The cost of replacing all your stuff is one of the consequences of buying
things with proprietary connectors.

I have an Apple USB Superdrive. It looks great but was purposely designed only
to work with a MacBook. No reason for that except to keep me in the
“ecosystem”.

Apple could release a Lightning to USB-C dongle for you. That would allow you
to reuse your Lightning pencil ...if they wanted to.

------
jp0d
I'm still using an iPhone 8. It's been great and I wasn't looking for a
replacement yet. However, it's nice to know that I can get one in the same
size. I don't want a big phone. I was reading through some of the threads and
found some arguments about Android. I'm a poweruser myself. I was on Android
for a long time. I've used both mid range and high end Androids. All of them
have died after 2 years max after slowing down terribly. Finally switched to
the iPhone 8, two years ago and couldn't have been happier. I still have an
old iPhone 5s that works like a charm.

------
gnicholas
Bummer that this has the slippery rounded edges that started with the 6. My
guess is that they're doing this because the iPhone 12 is rumored to return to
more rectangular edges, and they want it to be visually distinct.

------
chaorace
$399 iPhone? Weird! I always thought Apple stayed out of that pricerange to
keep the iPhone line a "prestige" purchase (especially given how little time
the "c" lasted for). I suppose that's why this model has such an iPod-esque
visual design, so that outside observers don't misconstrue the people using
these with their "luxury" users.

It's good to see more downward pressure coming from flagship phones lately,
imo. It's a great analog to the Pixel "a" models and an overall smartphone
trend that I'm very positive about!

~~~
slimginz
The iPhone 5C, my guess, was Apple's experiment with having a cheaper end
phone and seeing how the market would react to that. With the original SE,
they probably had a ton of left over iPhone 5 shells so they chose that
because it just made sense to use them. My guess is this is the same reason
why the new SE has the shell from the 7/8\. This also helps Apple cut down on
price since they don't have to create new molds or re-engineer the interior
much, which is probably how Apple is convincing themselves that they can still
make their expected margins with a $399 price tag.

------
logicslave
This is how you know the economy is bad, apple is releasing cheap phones

~~~
mywittyname
That, and and I bet the price of flagships being so high that people aren't
trading in phones as often, which is undermining the used market.

~~~
totalZero
Not to mention that common upgrade motivators like battery degradation and
cracked display glass become less important when you are at home all day and
you can plug in to a charger, watch TV, and browse the internet on your laptop
or desktop.

------
qnxub
As current user of a Moto E5 Play, this is the first iPhone that I've been
tempted to purchase. It delivers a lot of value at a reasonable price. As
penny-pinching consumer, I've started thinking about device longevity. This
phone will certainly be supported longer than any Android. However, my current
phone still _works_ , even if the camera is bad and it can be quite slow at
times. I can't justify purchasing a new device, especially one that was
probably constructed with unethical labor.

~~~
aarpmcgee
Yup. I had to get off the hedonic treadmill of phone upgrades. The dopamine
isn't worth it.

------
jyriand
I own iPhone SE and let's be honest, this phone is designed for people living
in warm climate, not someone living in nordic countries. If it's around zero
degrees celius or less, then you better not take your phone out of your
pocket. The battery will uncharge and phone will shut off(sometimes in matter
of minutes). I thought there was something wrong with my iPhone, but it turns
out the battery can't stand the cold.

\-- edit Otherwise I love iPhone SE. It's almost perfect.

------
grwthckrmstr
Is it weird that we're in 2020 and I still keep assuming that phones have a
headphone jack by default... Until I check the spec sheet and realise there's
no headphone jack :(

------
bitL
Hooray, no notch! The only recent iPhone that is not ugly right now.

~~~
davidcollantes
It doesn't have a notch, but the screen doesn't go edge to edge. I will take
the notch any day, if that eliminates the top and bottom blocks.

~~~
whywhywhywhy
> It doesn't have a notch, but the screen doesn't go edge to edge

Neither does the iPhone 11/Pro they have a very chunky bezel. I was shocked
how clunky it actually looks when mine arrived.

------
biztos
I use an iPhone SE and an iPhone 8 -- I got the 8 only because the SE's
microphone crapped out. I was thinking of buying an 11 Pro, but now I think
I'll buy the 2020 SE instead because it's smaller and has the A13.

(I was hoping against hope they'd use the old SE form factor, but I can
understand why they don't.)

I wonder how much the new SE will cannibalize sales of the 11's, for customers
who aren't price-sensitive but are size-sensitive?

------
umanwizard
Is it known how much RAM this has?

~~~
sturza
4gb

~~~
umanwizard
Is there a source for that? Can't find it anywhere.

~~~
sturza
I made the wrong assumption. It's 3GB:
[https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_(2020)-10170.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_\(2020\)-10170.php)

------
epaulson
Is there any word on the screen material? I have a Pixel 3a that for the most
part I really like, but one of the ways I think they got the price down was by
using a glass that was much less scratch-resistant. My original Pixel never
scratched, the 3a is scuff up badly after just 6 months. My iPhone 7 is a
couple of years old and also has no scratches, so I'm hoping for a similarly
scratch-resistant screen.

------
jotm
I actually like the "borders" on top and bottom, makes it easier to hold and
use the phone.

That said, Apple is really taking the piss with these displays. Just like the
iPhone 11, not only is the resolution laughable (Apple used to be a leader
here, what happened?) but it's also IPS LCD, which uses more power and has
worse viewing angles and colors.

OLEDs are excellent and competitors at this price point have them, so why not
Apple?

------
tambourine_man
4" size is truly dead then. What a shame.

I think we'll look at these comically large phones in the future like we look
Gordon Gekko's phone today.

------
lifeisstillgood
Honestly as a parent of three children barrelling towards teen-dom cheaper
iphones available and supported for the next few years sounds great.

------
starpilot
Wow, currently a single thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22878765](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22878765)

occupies the entire first page of these comments, with 367 replies. Is this
optimal?

Edit: looks like this has fixed/modified, some of the replies have been broken
out into top-level threads. Might be time for auto-collapsing of replies like
Reddit.

------
trboyden
I got my iPhone SE (iPhone 7) on Amazon for $150 a couple months ago... It
sadly replaced my (real) iPhone SE that took a dip in a pool.

------
adreamingsoul
I love the size of my iPhone SE. Every time my partner uses my phone, they
always mention how nice and compact the size is.

------
novok
They could of done so much more than slap an A13 into an iPhone 8. I guess it
was about that the last time although, throwing a newer processor into an
iPhone 5.

At the very least they could of done touch ID on the back and make it a hole
punch display with a smaller form factor, but that would probably have battery
issues from the smaller footprint.

------
technotarek
I didn’t buy the SE because it was cheaper. I bought it because it had the
best balance between performance and form factor.

------
fossuser
I love the iPhone 5 design - I wish they could have put a full screen Face ID
display into that frame.

Maybe it wasn't possible with the space constraints, or maybe it would have
been too expensive - but a premium small phone like that would have been
really cool.

The iPhone 8 is probably my least favorite of all iPhone designs except for
the 3G.

------
colinprince
I see this supports Quicktake video[0] when in Photo mode. Kinda useful, but
how do you take bursts now?

0\. [https://support.apple.com/en-
ca/guide/iphone/iph61f49e4bb/io...](https://support.apple.com/en-
ca/guide/iphone/iph61f49e4bb/ios)

------
DeathArrow
I newer owned an iPhone and I'm not interested in iOS much, but $400 for a
phone with Apple A13 CPU is very tempting.

I don't understand why other ARM CPU makers don't come up with comparable
CPUs.

Paying 1000 euros on a phone and having a twice as weak CPU as an similar
priced iPhone is not a nice sentiment for an Android user.

~~~
AgloeDreams
> I don't understand why other ARM CPU makers don't come up with comparable
> CPUs.

This is like asking why other rocket companies don't just build rockets this
year that are reusable like SpaceX's.

Apple's CPUs are so fast because they have the best internal engineering team
on earth paired with the best Fab (TSMC 7nm) money can buy. They buy out the
entire production run from that Fab. These CPUs are the most advanced and best
designed in the world because they worked so hard to get here years ago.

It's like asking why other runners don't just run as a fast as Usain Bolt.

------
throw_m239339
What is that app displayed here?

[https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/iphone/standar...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/iphone/standard/Apple_new-
iphone-se-ar-screen_04152020_carousel.jpg.large.jpg)

~~~
_venkatasg
Probably Reality Composer

[https://apps.apple.com/app/reality-
composer/id1462358802](https://apps.apple.com/app/reality-
composer/id1462358802)

------
ibdf
I have the latest iphone, but only because I switched carriers and got a good
deal. FaceID is fine, but touch ID was way way better... but why don't they
put it on the back of the phone like Android phones do? It's so much easier to
use it and then you don't have those huge bezels.

------
doanerock
Why does it have the same name as a previously released phone? That is so
confusing. Why not iPhone SE2

~~~
AgloeDreams
Ask the iPad Pro. Or 13 inch MacBook Pro. or Airpods.

You'll see it referred to by 'iPhone SE (2020)'

~~~
saagarjha
It’s actually “iPhone SE (2nd generation)”.

------
gigatexal
That’s a whole lot of hardware for 399. Android handset makers are likely
going to be upset with Apple moving downmarket with a chip that will run
circles around what they have to offer.

Honestly I should have gotten one of these instead of my 11 pro. My 11 pro is
just too much phone.

------
DylanBohlender
Is there any confirmation that this phone will/won't support 5G? It seems to
be omitted in the marketing materials.

While multiple years of OS support would be nice in this form factor, not
being able to use 5G data would be a big negative in terms of this being
"futureproofed".

~~~
coder543
The new iPhone SE definitely doesn’t have any 5G.

5G is extremely overrated. LTE is easily capable of 200Mbps. I’ve personally
seen it... but very few people have. Have you? (relevant link that
demonstrates over 500Mbps on LTE:
[https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/iphone-11-pro-max-lte-
spe...](https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/iphone-11-pro-max-lte-speed-test-
telus/))

Until our towers have enough network backhaul to consistently max out LTE to a
phone when that phone needs it, 5G has exactly one benefit: less signal
congestion at major sporting / concert events with high densities of people.
The carriers would say “marketing” is another benefit, probably.

Just having 5G won’t make the internet any faster in most situations, since
the towers are backhaul limited... they aren’t limited by LTE.

Even 200Mbps is more than enough for 99% of people's phones for the next 5
years, especially since that's like double the average home internet speed in
the US. The 537Mbps seen in the article I linked to is just excessive by
today's standards... and that just requires current LTE.

“5G” also refers to two completely different technologies, which most people
probably don’t realize. One of them doesn’t even seem very different from LTE,
and the other requires towers for almost every single city block.

------
LoSboccacc
I really want to jump back into iPhones and prepared to sustain another
painful migration back into ios, but not with no guarantees I'll have a
product refresh in the coming years; I've been forced out of the ecosystem
once and I'm not going to get burned twice.

------
fataliss
Looks clean. Wonder if that means the array of sensors needed for AR/Face id
is still that expensive to make that they can't add it to their $400 phone.
You'd think that by now after having multiple gens of flagship phones using it
cost would be low...

------
villgax
What's with the design, should have gone flat edges & slimmer bezels & in
display fingerprint. From experience of 5 year old 5S, TouchID just doesn't
work with little sweat or dust. In display readers on other phones just work
so amazingly

------
markphip
I am still holding out hope for a 4.7" phone that is all screen and supports
Face ID. Maybe the next iPhone SE in 4 more years will be that phone.

I imagine they could not produce that phone at this price point .. which is
quite good for what you are getting.

------
ct520
I feel in good company. Here I thought I was the only one who longed-for the
smaller iphone.

------
erickhill
I realized recently that Face ID is useless when I'm out and about because of
face masks.

------
BigBalli
Another current SE user here. I've been waiting for this since rumors started
6+ months ago.

I was hoping they were going to keep the same screen size but think I'll
upgrade anyways. Figure I will need to eventually and this has a solid tech
bump-up.

------
ComputerGuru
Tangential: the scroll performance on hardware-accelerated Chrome for the
landing page is absolutely atrocious on a Xeon v6 running past full frequency
(3.6GHz, so not in energy-saving mode). I would have expected better of Apple.
\ _shrug\_

~~~
winrid
Site feels great on my 2017 One Plus.

What graphics card do you have? Are you sure the correct drivers are
installed...?

------
commenterhn
[https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen&device2=iphone8)

------
testerhn
[https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen)

------
ryanmjacobs
Awesome! I love my SE. A smartphone that doesn't try to be a full-fledged
tablet computer (size-wise and spec-wise). $400 is what I paid for my original
SE, so this isn't bad. Gonna miss the 3.5mm plug in though.

------
tartrate
"Best Single-Camera System in an iPhone"

Is there another iPhone with a single-camera system? Otherwise it just sounds
like they had 0 other good things to say about it.

Soon we're down to "the newest iPhone ever released so far".

~~~
333c
There are certainly all the previous iPhones that had just one (back-facing)
camera. I suppose they're saying that it's better than all of those. Every
year they say that the new phone is the "best iPhone ever," which I suppose is
true but isn't a very strong statement.

Edit: Actually, the iPhone XR has just one camera:
[https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-
xr](https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-xr)

------
shoes_for_thee
Why tho?

I have an old iPhone SE. It is small enough that I don't even notice it in my
pocket. It does everything I want it to do very well and is actually very
responsive.

Also it is about $60 bucks on ebay. I have no compelling reason to switch.

~~~
crazygringo
I assume no more iOS updates are coming for the SE. Pretty soon your apps
won't upgrade, and won't talk to the app servers, and you can't install new
apps.

So you don't have a compelling reason to switch now... but in a year or so you
unfortunately will. It's what happened to me with my iPhone 5. :(

~~~
saagarjha
It might get iOS 14.

------
basejumping
Is the frame made of aluminium or glass? I can't find it mentioned anywhere.

~~~
wffurr
Glass front and back, aluminum edges.

------
dzonga
I have the 1st gen SE and a pixel 3a. pixel 3a screen currently shuttered. But
will gladly switch back to 2nd gen SE if they let me run Firefox on that
thing. I will compromise on a headphone jack n get an mp3 player

~~~
tradesmanhelix
Firefox for iOS has been out for quite a while:
[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-private-safe-
browser/i...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-private-safe-
browser/id989804926). Unless I'm missing something?

~~~
dzonga
firefox, using the firefox engine. not being a simple wrapper around webkit.

~~~
tradesmanhelix
Ahh gotcha. Yeah, that’d be the day they probably also release Seamonkey
Mobile for iOS/Android /s

------
imharvey
Lets use all the spare parts of iPhone 8 and call it iPhone SE gen 2. I get
the concept but it would have been nice with a iPhone XR design but in the
size of the original iPhone SE. $399 is still reasonable.

------
RileyJames
Have been considering a replacement for my 6S, this looks like the ticket.

Is there an adaptor / dongle that can enable charging while using a headset?

I’ve seen the lighting to audio dongles. Is there a lightning to
lighting+audio?

~~~
1123581321
Yes, there are lightning to 3.5mm audio adapters. It will also come with
lightning port EarPods you could use.

------
samename
The Dual SIM with eSIM is a nice touch - is this the first iPhone to get it?

~~~
bdcravens
No, it was introduced in the iPhone XS/XS Max.

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT209044)

------
thereyougo
As much as I love apple products (I'm using mac and iPhone for years) I do
think that the spark in their innovation is slowly fading. I can't remember
the last time they 'Wow'ed me.

~~~
AgloeDreams
This is a budget device which is code for 'old iphone, new internals'

Probably just not the release you need to be wowed, they did this before.

------
Aissen
Yesterday in their keynote, Oneplus dared to call the new Oneplus 8 "compact"
with its 6.55" screen. Although to be fair it has a much better screen-to-body
ratio than the SE.

~~~
adequateness
It ~12% more compact than the OnePlus 8 Pro.

~~~
Aissen
That's one way to look at it I guess :-) (note: I personally think content
should be the focus of a smartphone, so the screen should be as big as
physically possible; 6.7" is my current limit though).

------
sangd
The reasons I bought my SE were:

1\. being small 2\. powerful as the iPhone 6s.

I'm quite disappointed with this. I wish they could have kept the same size
and increases the dpi with a big larger screen.

------
findthewords
The features on offer here for the price sre surprisingly good from Apple.

The big phone/small phone argument will be silly in a couple of years when we
all have folding phones.

------
Kye
I'm definitely getting one in (PRODUCT)RED.

Jokes about editing goofs aside, this will probably replace my iPhone 6S Plus
in a couple of years once it's even cheaper.

------
cmarschner
This could be the perfect phone. If it had a headphone jack.

------
alliao
COVID-19 edition! can't tell you how many times I'm annoyed by having to tap
in passwords like it's goddamn 2012! (coz i'm wearing a mask)

------
amatecha
Huh this is interesting. It looks totally indiscernible from the iPhone 8 I'm
using now. I guess it's got a better processor though, at least :)

------
incanus77
I'm a longtime Mac & iOS developer (15+ years) and I still have an iPhone SE.
The only thing I care about is the size. Won't be upgrading.

------
benbristow
No 5G support seems a bummer (can't see any mention it on the page). DOA for
me for that fact alone. Hoping the new iPhones in September have it.

~~~
coder543
See my comment here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22879752](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22879752)

There are plenty of reasons to dislike the new iPhone SE, but I don't think
lack of 5G should be one.

~~~
benbristow
4G around the UK is pretty grim. I struggle to get any signal in the centre of
Glasgow, especially around the Central train station. Even on 3G. Anything
that helps is welcome.

~~~
coder543
I don’t see how 5G would help with that... that sounds like a carrier problem,
not an LTE problem.

In my personal (and possibly wrong) opinion, even a very popular train station
shouldn’t have enough people to oversubscribe the LTE airwaves and cause
signal congestion.

The Atlanta airport has 3x to 4x as many passengers per year as Glasgow
central station, and I’ve never had trouble getting good, solid cellular
connection when I’m there... so I don’t think the number of people in close
proximity is causing oversubscription of the airwaves.

The carrier you use probably hasn’t put up enough towers, or the towers just
don’t have enough backhaul bandwidth to do anything useful.

~~~
benbristow
Definitely is a carrier problem, but due to the decreased range of 5G it would
make it more essential for the carriers to install more antennas around the
area rather than getting away with having less for 4G/3G.

------
Markoff
come on, that's just lazy, what would happen if they would make at least the
top bezel smaller and expand the display together with higher resolution? so
much wasted space

it's nice someone produce 4.7" phone, but it could be either smaller with such
outdated low res display or display could be bigger in same body

this just seem like they have big stock of old displays and phone bodies they
still need to dump

------
generalpass
Looks like the camera sticks out from the back a little, which is one of the
features not present on 5S and previous SE, and I liked it that way.

------
alkonaut
Wow this is pretty aggressively priced. It’s very unlike Apple to self-compete
like this. It looks like this will eat into the iPhone 11 sales.

------
ryanSrich
Touch ID alone is enough for me to consider downgrading from my iPhone 11.
FaceID is one of the worst features Apple has ever released imo.

------
judge2020
Looks like it doesn't come with the ultra wideband/UWB U1 chip, so this might
impact future "AirTags" compatibility.

------
maxpert
So OnePlus released an expensive phone and Apple released a good cheaper
phone. This COVID-19 surely has flipped the world upside down.

------
gnicholas
Apparently cases made for the iPhone 8 will fit the new SE. That's great for
case manufacturers, and also good for consumers.

------
classics2
So disappointing. No headphone jack is a no go.

------
symlinkk
I don’t think I could go back to not having FaceID and having a physical home
button. The size and the price is perfect though.

------
vondur
Well, I was hoping for a large phone with the fingerprint reader back. I don't
care for FaceID. This is a great phone.

------
fouc
iPhone SE is the form factor of iPhone 5s, the last phone in the previous
generation before iPhone 6/7/etc.

iPhone SE 2 is the form factor of iPhone 8, the last phone in the previous
generation before iPhone X/11/etc.

iPhone SE2 is only a tiny bit smaller than the iPhone X or iPhone 11 Pro. Less
than a half a centimeter in height and width.

------
bruwozniak
Last 2 days: an iPhone with flagship CPU is at the 400$ price point, meanwhile
OnePlus releases a 900$ device. How ironic.

------
scop
I wonder how much of the form factor was determined by:

(a) space required by newer components (b) leftover (i.e. unsold) iPhone 8
materials

------
projektfu
I'll wait until I hear reports of thumb-usability before buying, but if it
checks out, I'll probably upgrade.

------
soapdog
in all this talk about form-factor and sizes, the two most comfortable phones
I ever used, in terms of their physical feel in my hand, were the palm pre2
and pre3. They felt like a little river pebble that was warm to the touch. I
wish companies would go back to small phones that feel good in your hand.

------
coding123
This is the price point that will change the apple Android dynamic forever.
Good timing with the gov checks too.

------
musicale
Let's not talk about the new iPhone and instead argue the merits of iOS vs.
Android vs. Windows Phone. ;-)

------
polygot
Does anyone else get severe graphical corruption on Windows 10 using google
chrome while scrolling that page?

------
electriclove
Fantastic specs for a fantastic price! I wonder what effect this will have on
the other mobile manufacturers.

------
howzen
Do any of you feel that the struggle of current times places our obsession
with technology into perspective?

------
KozmoNau7
Still no proper Firefox with proper browser extensions/add-ons, still no
interest in iOS devices.

------
dakiol
I don't get it. It's over 520 USD in Germany (479 EUR). Is this supposed to be
an SE edition?

------
Nextgrid
Too bad the gold color option is gone.

~~~
rosstex
Rose gold for me! But I might have to settle.

------
kabacha
I never understood hype behind this phone. On paper it seems like april fools
joke. Single camera, absurd screen-to-body ratio and all of the things from
2010 in 2020.

None of you bought s10e which is a brilliant phone yet you whine that no small
phones are available - maybe you should vote with your wallet or just admit
that you're in it for the nostalgia and drop the facade.

~~~
raydev
> Single camera

Most people only use one camera. The SE is also $399.

> absurd screen-to-body ratio

Some people really dislike the edge-to-edge screen of the newer iPhone models

> all of the things from 2010 in 2020

This is literally one of the fastest phones on the market and it's only $399.
Did you live in an alternate reality 2010?

~~~
kabacha
Samsung s10e is like 300$ these days - has wide-angle camera and almost full
body screen for the same phone size and has been released a year ago.

> literally one of the fastest phones

where are you getting that? What an absurd statement to make.

------
yoelo
I was looking forward to this phone but will not buy as it doesn't not have a
3.5mm jack

------
l31g
Compared to iPhone 8: \+ New processor \+ WiFi 6 \+ Dual SIM \+ possibly
upgraded RAM

------
otikik
> black, white and (PRODUCT)RED

This non-uniform nomenclature is hurting my programmer brain.

------
mpweiher
This is the anti-SE.

The SE was small and premium. This is big and low-end (well, Apple low-end).

------
ubertoop
I'll be upgrading my iPhone 5s to this!

Yes, I held out THIS long for a small form factor.

------
shepardrtc
This looks almost exactly like an iPhone 6... The measurements are the same.

------
ngcc_hk
The size of the original iPhone has been insisted by Steve Jobs. Based on his
insistence on the table high and low for apple store, there is a reason for
that size.

I still bought a iPod lately for the size and 2nd phone SE for the size (and
the weight).

------
whalesalad
Apple stock is going to go bananas. Wall Street is going to love this.

~~~
minimaxir
I dunno; Wall Street loves ARPU, and this might bring it down a bit.

------
fajarsiddiqfs
I love it! i still have the old iphone 5se I want to buy this one!

------
r0fl
No one is stating the obvious here!

Apple is making more and more money from the app store and is trying to get
into the streaming content game.

Streaming tv shows and movies on a tiny screen is not as enjoyable,therefore
the old SE screen size is simply never going to happen.

------
alexashka
Nice, now if they can start making phones with easily replaceable batteries,
screens and charging ports that don't break on every one of my iPhones, we'll
have a product that should've been made from the very start.

------
trashcan
Anyone know if this will work with Google Fi out of the box?

~~~
stetrain
I use my iPhone XS on Fi.

You don't get carrier switching (T-Mobile only) and visual voicemail is done
through the Fi app instead of the native phone app. Also no WiFi calling/SMS.

Other than that it works fairly well and costs a lot less than a standard plan
at the other carriers.

------
qblv
Would I buy it? It depends on the manufacturing country!

------
nojvek
Ooooo they kept Touch ID. This is deffo my next phone.

------
eddielement
This phone compares so favorably to the Pixel 4a!

------
jm1234567890
Can someone confirm or deny if it has night mode?

------
livealife
What does SE mean?

------
kart23
type C and a headphone jack would have made this phone god-tier. Good on apple
for releasing something affordable though.

------
infinite_beam
I am still using my iphone 6 (from 2014) without any issue besides airpods not
working well with Ip6. I have been hankering for an upgrade. This might be it.

------
lunias
Pretty soon we'll bring our small "phone" with us in our backpacks while our
big "phone" stays at home attached to the wall.

------
ukj
This is not an SE. This is a 6S.

I have a 6S. I want an SE.

------
teknopurge
Masterstroke of timing from Apple. This is what good executive leadership does
wrt business: keep pocket aces when things look bleak.

------
loeg
Ah shoot, I wish I had known they were bringing touch ID (and the home screen
button) back. Not a fan of Face ID.

------
baq
this is what i'll get when my 8 breaks, hopefully not in the next 2 years

------
eganist
> A13

Well, found my new iOS test phone.

------
Brosper
the worst thing for me is the design

i mean this phone is soo slippery

without case it's unusable

------
tomger
Death of the small phone

------
richardwhiuk
iPhone 11, with an iPhone 7/8 body. Sounds ideal to me.

------
luxuryballs
Guess it’s almost time to list my classic style iPhone SE 128GB on eBay...

------
andosteinmetz
Hi Apple. Throw in a 3.5mm stereo jack and you've got my attention.

------
Ritsuko_akagi
Wait, no nightmode?

~~~
AgloeDreams
Thats an iPhone 11 Pro feature only. Not even the 11 gets it.

EDIT: My mistake, was thinking of Deep Fusion.

~~~
mavidser
11 has night mode.

------
JohnTHaller
~720p class screen

~~~
AgloeDreams
Give it a little more credit than that, it's a pretty tight LCD that has
better effective (observed) DPI than it might appear to have. (As OLED
displays take a hit due to the Pentile arrangement) 326PPI in an IPS LCD with
HDR isn't nearly as blurry 720P might sell it to be. The iPhone 11 is well
reviewed despite similar agreement. Plus chopping the pixel count comes with
battery gains. No surpises here.

------
DrNuke
Carrying on with the 2019 iPad Mini wifi + a $25 Nokia dumbphone.

------
smcleod
ouch A$749 is pretty damn expensive...

------
dmtroyer
no one has mentioned that it is $399.

------
winrid
A light joke - this is the iPhone SE SE.

------
dipshitlol
This is basically a rebranded iPhone 8.

~~~
AgloeDreams
With the CPU out of the iPhone 11 Pro. At $400 it is going to be faster (at
processing tasks) than the S20 Ultra.

------
monadic2
No headphone port? Are they deaf?

------
richardwhiuk
No 5G radio support...

------
tonymet
pixel is ded

------
FriendlyNormie
Why do the edges need to be round? Can this idiotic trend die already? It
makes it easier for the phone to slide off of flat surfaces. It also makes it
much harder to hold the phone with one hand since all the weight that
concentrates on your pinky rests painfully on 2-3 millimeters of your skin
rather than being spread across the full thickness of the phone. It also makes
it easier for the phone to slip out of your hand if your pinky isn’t at just
the right location and angle, the smooth curve means it just slides right off
your pinky knuckle and onto the floor.

No one ever asked for this.

------
MKais
I'm astonished that this gets 1K+ upvotes on HN in this crisis.

------
netsharc
Why is the color called PRODUCT(RED)? What next, "White Pro" as a color?

~~~
ebg13
PRODUCT(RED) is a charity campaign originally to help fight HIV/AIDS.
[https://www.red.org](https://www.red.org)

------
rock_artist
One real con imho, no Night Mode. They could've at least some of this logic
(with the A13 included).

~~~
scrumper
Wait, no "night shift" or something else? The 8 had that...

------
papermachete
>(PRODUCT)RED

What about ";blue?

------
phreack
I know it's a pretty much lost cause but I am 100% willing to die on the hill
of never buying a phone without a headphone jack, no compromises, so a sad
hard pass on this one.

~~~
ksquarekumar
Same boat as you, switched to android last year, atleast i will always have
options in this side of the market.

------
polote
I don't really understand why this is at HN front page, and also why people
are keeping upvoting it, are you afraid some people will miss the news if this
is not at the top ?

Also the guidelines state : 'If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-
topic. '

~~~
fastball
I feel like HN forgot about that particular guideline a long time ago.

------
cbovis
So $400 equals roughly £320 and yet the retail price on the UK store is £419 🧐

[https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-
se/4.7-inch-...](https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se/4.7-inch-
display-64gb-white)

~~~
cletus
As always, US pries are ex-tax (meaning state sales taxes are added on and can
be as much as 10% depending on city and state). Most other places (UK
included) as inc-tax. If you take out the 20% VAT you get to 349 GBP, which is
~437 USD at current exchange rates. That's not that far off.

------
laurentdc
Physical button and massive bezels, pass. Feels like buying a device from a
tech era ago

~~~
jefft255
That's the point of the SE. Lots of people loved this design. Not everyone
cares that much about bezels (I like mine thin personally however).

------
amrrs
On a different note, Isn't it weird to see companies launching new phones when
the whole world is fighting a pandemic?

It's not like an essential that we can't live without. OnePlus just did a few
days back. Do these companies expect people to buy new phones when they're are
being laid off or is it just an annual ritual or a desparate move to be the
first to capture the market when things become normal?

Any insights please!

~~~
addison-lee
Plenty of people still working, and this is a budget iPhone; this is the
perfect time to launch a cheap phone.

~~~
OrangeMango
It's likely to cannibalize sales from their higher-priced phones, but better
to sell a cheaper phone than to lose the customer entirely.

I noticed that if you scroll down to the bottom of the press release, they are
also accepting orders for the magic iPad keyboard as of today...

~~~
addison-lee
As Apple moves to be more of a service-based company, they are likely
factoring in the increase in service value for newly acquired/retained
customers.

