
Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator - kevinpacheco
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/charles-carreon-drops-bogus-lawsuit-against-oatmeal-creator
======
acabal
How is Carreon going to be punished?

It's great that Inman won, but he won not in small part because he's a famous
personality that helped gather internet rage--and then the EFF--to his side.
But what if he was a nobody? EFF would have very likely told him they were too
busy, Carreon would have pressed on, and lots and lots of hard-earned money
would have gone down the drain. It makes me so mad that the legal system is so
one-sided. Surely Carreon at least must be paying Inman's attorneys' fees!

~~~
masklinn
> How is Carreon going to be punished?

Not, unless Inman decides to sue.

> It's great that Inman won

Inman did not really "win", he did get intimidated in _not_ withdrawing the
money (he took a picture of his own money instead) and Carreon filed a "Notice
of Voluntary Dismissal" without prejudice (as the court ended up not being
involved) so he could always pick it up again later.

And:

> Ars called Carreon to comment and found him declaring the lawsuit a success.
> "Mission Accomplished," Carreon announced on the phone with Ars.

------
Xylakant
While this end is certainly favorable for Inman, I'd have preferred if this
was decided in court. This way Carreon can pretend that he had to abandon his
just campaign under pressure of the savage hordes of the Internet and try
again with a softer target than Inman. If he had been thrown out of court with
a clear statement, things would look different.

~~~
scott_w
A similar situation occurred in the UK, with a legal firm sending out
extortion letters threatening to take people to court for copyright
infringement.

A number replied demanding their day in court and, in the same way, the
complainant withdrew the case.

However, the judge in the case refused the application and demanded they come
to court, so he could enforce judgement, and punish the complainant for filing
a frivolous lawsuit.

If i remember correctly, the complainant went bankrupt, dispanding his
company, in an attempt to avoid going to trial.

~~~
grabeh
ACS:Law was the firm in question which as you say subsequently disbanded
although not before getting a verbal hiding from the judge
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACS:Law>).

~~~
scott_w
Thanks for the link. I remember the details were about accusing customers of
downloading copyrighted pornography, which I was reluctant to search for from
my work machine.

------
ww520
What is the legal punishment for filing frivolous lawsuit? For every case
backed down like Carreon, there must be a lot more people caved to legal
backmails.

~~~
dkulchenko
If you do it enough, you can get disbarred:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation>

~~~
mkr-hn
Like this guy: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(activist)>

~~~
SwellJoe
It took _years_ for anyone to take responsibility for allowing him to continue
to practice and abuse the system, and he was _famous_ for trolling the legal
system. That tells me the bar needs some serious reform.

~~~
adaml_623
The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice.
If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them
to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere
there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With
transparent feedback on how the members of each perform.

It's one of those funny things that people never seem to notice. We believe in
competition and a marketplace but look past the obvious monopolies!

~~~
usea
Exactly where would the pressure for a bar-competitor to clean up come from?
Assuming their income comes from applicants and membership fees, wouldn't they
want to let in as many people as the inevitable regulations allow?

~~~
adaml_623
Slow reply so you may never see this. But you raise a very good point. As do
the other people who replied.

* If a company misbehaves then people can boycott it and/or protest against it. It can be punished in a way that affects it's competitiveness. Public pressure can't be applied in the same way to an organisation without competition.

* If we had multiple bar associations then hypothetically certain bars would preferentially attract good lawyers and others would attract bad. Good lawyers would transfer from a bad bar to a good bar (Please excuse simplistic use of good/bad). So there would indeed need to be an overreaching feedback mechanism that would punish a 'bad' bar association full of bad but cheap lawyers.

I suppose a simplistic solution could be:

* Enforcing multiple bar associations that are not allowed more than (say) 15% of the total number of lawyers

* A mechanism for banning any of these associations if they don't keep there members in check.

A thought just jumped into my head that the Bar Association and the AMA are
essentially organisations that are, 'Too Big to Fail'. If you (The public
through your elected reps) can't punish something then you can't control it or
force it to enforce standards.

~~~
usea
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think your reasons make a lot of sense.
Potentially, some associations get known as "the good ones" and then they're
more competitive than the others.

Ultimately though, it comes down to the laws/regulations. If they leave room
for an association that doesn't care about its reputation, the lawyers who
would be kicked out of the reputable associations will simply transfer to it
and nothing is solved.

------
kposehn
I'm quite glad this brouhaha is over - it not only threatened a legitimate
fundraiser, but also (should it have gone through) potentially threatened
freedom of speech and expression across the web.

Enough is enough, and Carreon saw fit to realize this.

~~~
CaptainZapp
Unfortunately I wouldn't bet on the fact that this is really over. Mr. Carreon
sounds, charitably put, like a rather unhinged person with a streak for
vendetta.

From the Popehat's excellent coverage of this sordid issue:

"2. Dismissal is, without court intervention, without prejudice, meaning that
Mr. Carreon could re-file if he wanted. Will he? Who knows."

The whole post here : [http://www.popehat.com/2012/07/03/oatmeal-v-funnyjunk-
chapte...](http://www.popehat.com/2012/07/03/oatmeal-v-funnyjunk-chapter-ix-
charles-carreon-dismisses-his-lawsuit/)

~~~
kposehn
Ahh, interesting. Thanks for posting that link.

------
keithnoizu
I'll go with the whole thing was a well orchestrated multi party facade to
pump money into cancer research.

~~~
alttab
Scandal, controversy, entertainment, and fundraising? All the elements of a
juicy story with positive outcomes all around!

------
ambler0
But as far as we know, he has _not_ (yet) rescinded his threat to sue the
person who started the Satirical Charles website, right?

~~~
simcop2387
The fun part for him is that even if he does, the Doe in that case has already
filed suit against him. It will be difficult/impossible for him to get out of
that one without settling.

------
pooriaazimi
I wish they would go to court. I'd love nothing more than than the judge
saying when he was issuing his ruling: _"By the way, I must add I'm ashamed
that I'm working in the same legal system as you, Mr. Carreon. I wish I could
disqualify you from doing legal stuff from now on"_. That would make my day.

------
vijayr
This is sad. It would have been much better if it had gone to court, with
carreon losing the case, and _made to pay_ the legal fees to Inman, and
probably a fine for wasting court's time.

At least, the charities will get the money - for all the drama and time
wasted, something good came out of it

------
caffeineninja
Charles Carreon and his wife are almost as bad as Westboro Baptist's Fred
Phelps and his cronies. Just doing it because they're too stubborn, ignorant
or righteous to see the fallacy of their ways.

People like these only fuel my misanthropy.

~~~
CamperBob2
A better comparison might be made with Jack Thompson, the lawyer who first
appeared on the scene as an upstanding moral crusader against the evils of
video game violence, and eventually ended up disbarred for abusive and erratic
behavior.

This isn't the last we'll hear of Mr. Carreon, rest assured. He hasn't hit
bottom yet.

------
senthilnayagam
At last sanity prevailed, it will be one of those real comic legends "once
upon a time a lawyer tried bullying an artist and the artist fought back with
satire"

------
ecubed
I'm kind of disappointed this is over, it was actually starting to become
entertaining.

~~~
ambler0
I also felt disappointed because I wanted to see Carreon punished for his
abuse of the legal system. But it's probably for the best, since it will free
up all of these wonderful people who were providing pro bono counsel to keep
fighting the good fights.

~~~
Iscariott
That would've been great to see cuz he sure deserves the shxtstorm he was
dragging himself into. I just can't imagine being so full of myself as to
pursue such a worthless suit.

------
TheCowboy
I think items like this are probably not useful or worthwhile as targets for
upmodding on HN. We're basically just clicking up-arrow because we like the
outcome and see the post here.

We will all hear about this, unless we live under a rock. And for those of us
under a rock, it's probably for a good reason.

News items like this and a lack of community discipline to disregard them are
how I remember reddit beginning its slide in quality.

The comments this story will attract on HN will not likely add anything to the
discussion that's been going on across the Interwebs.

~~~
guynamedloren
> _The comments this story will attract on HN will not likely add anything to
> the discussion that's been going on across the Interwebs._

Please share where these magical communities can be found and I'll leave
Hacker News. As far as I'm concerned, the HN community as a whole is extremely
diverse, intellectual, and inquisitive - something I have yet to find
elsewhere. That's why I'm still here. The quality discussions are exactly why
I stick around.

------
beedogs
I'm guessing he's about to be disbarred again.

~~~
unreal37
Doubtful. This is not really "abuse of the legal system". There are people who
have filed thousands of frivolous lawsuits over a period of years, and that is
abuse of the legal system. One lawsuit that was dropped a few days later is
not abuse.

He will, however, have trouble being taken seriously as a lawyer.

------
adjwilli
This free publicity was the best thing to ever happen to the Oatmeal.

