
Coming Out as a Porn Addict - jseliger
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/06/coming-out-as-a-porn-addict/277106/
======
Zikes
I think it's telling that the author draws a parallel with the so-called rape
culture. It feels like the concept of porn addiction (which is far too loosely
defined in this article to be seriously considered) is being used as a tool to
retain control over the male libido. Whereas previously women held the
proverbial keys to the kingdom, men now have a safe and easily accessible
outlet.

But society shames that outlet, attaching emotions such as guilt and
repression, and drawing a tenuous connection to an eventual loss of self-
control. It does not directly address what should be considered a healthy
libido, only that by refraining from any sexual activities at all the brain
will somehow eventually reset to a "natural" state, which seems to be defined
only by a lowered interest in sex.

The part where the author describes his experience sharing his porn with his
partner I found especially disturbing. His partner expressed outright disgust,
and then described what followed as mere "fucking". This does not properly
address the facet of the libido that demands fulfillment without the pressure
of a performance. Men are under tremendous pressure to perform with almost
every sexual act, even with long-time partners, and sometimes it's easier,
simpler, and more appropriate to fill those needs alone with non-judgmental
and even wholly private materials.

~~~
reader5000
Please give an example of "society" shaming porn.

~~~
ambiate
There is a bench on our main road that says 'Watching porn will lose you your
JOB FAMILY FRIENDS AND KIDS. PORN WILL DESTROY YOUR LIFE.'

Caps are not my emphasis. Glorious Waco, TX. Two miles away was a billboard of
a mother discarding a baby into a garbage can for some anti-abortion campaign.

~~~
pepr
Once I read the first line I immediatelly remembered that sign on Valley Mills
and thought: "could this be a fellow sufferer from Waco?" :-D This reminds me
how much I look forward to moving out of Waco this summer.

~~~
ambiate
The one on Valley Mills is much easier on the pornographic indulging soul.

The one I mentioned was near 18th and I35 on the way towards the Planned
Parenthood clinic. Haha.

~~~
pepr
Ah, I didn't notice that one :)

------
scythe
The Last Psychiatrist, ever controversial, suggests that in some men, viewing
pornography (and relevant compulsion) is a way of maintaining a state of
denial regarding their own poor sexual performance. It's an interesting
hypothesis.

[http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/02/hes_just_not_that_int...](http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/02/hes_just_not_that_into_anyone.html)

I don't have a useful personal contribution, I guess. I'm used to closing my
eyes and imagining things. My stuff's better than porn, anyway.

The one part that grinds my gears: we're all well acquainted with the stench
of amateur pseudoeconomics, amateur pseudopsychology, and amateur
pseudosociology that infest every Internet discussion like a splotchy,
shouting Bill O'Reilly discussing the movement of tides. Move aside, fellas,
here comes amateur pseudoneuroscience:

>I posted this on Your Brain Rebalanced, and someone pointed out the obvious
to me: neurons the fire together, wire together, and if I was still indulging
those fantasies, I was still keeping those reward pathways strong.

Yeah, if you don't activate the 5-ht4nonsense receptor for a little while,
stupidtonin production returns to normal levels. Check, please.

By all means, share your experiences, what works and doesn't, but don't get
attached to your claims as though they're related to some fundamental law of
neural processing. The brain is a mighty complex thing, and two-bit highdeas
about the effect of a fantasy aren't helpful and may distract from real self-
improvement. Just pay attention to what is _actually_ happening when you do
things.

Though I think the article's barometer is off: the question is not "do you
have weird fantasies at all anymore". You have memories, memories don't go
away unless you do something stupid. The question is "are you fulfilled by
having sex with your partner". In that vein, remember this:

 _" Ambition is the death of thought"_ ~ Ludwig Wittgenstein

Oh, most importantly: stop thinking of sex as a performance. It's not. A
partner, male or female, who expects otherwise is a bad person.

~~~
maratd
> viewing pornography (and relevant compulsion) is a way of maintaining a
> state of denial regarding their own poor sexual performance.

I think that's a bit off and the answer is far simpler. I have sex regularly
with my wife and still consume porn, as do many others. I have a child. I
don't think you could describe my sexual performance, which I assume is meant
in the evolutionary sense, as poor.

I don't mean to be crass, and this conversation is already pretty much there,
but ejaculating is fairly similar to urinating. It fulfills a necessary bodily
function of discarding old sperm. All primates do it and if you restrain
yourself, your body will do it involuntarily (ie you'll have a wet dream).

Personally, I prefer not to have to change my underwear in the middle of the
night, regardless of how pleasant the experience may be.

~~~
Avshalom
why would you assume the evolutionary sense?

------
another_addict
As a recovering alcoholic, current caffeine addict, occasional nicotine user,
and porn user, here are my thoughts.

I had a complete physical, mental, and spiritual addiction to alcohol. Parts
of my life were falling apart around me and I was completely powerless to put
down the bottle. Everywhere I went I had to have a plan as to how I would
drink, and the possibility of being away from alcohol for a day threw me in
fits of panic. When I did quit (years ago), I suffered from acute alcohol
withdrawal, including delirium tremens, and had to taper off with benzos to
prevent seizures. For me to successfully quit, I had to go to rehab and attend
AA meetings everyday for months.

Nowadays I'm a big coffee drinker. If I forget to drink some sort of caffeine
on any given day, I will get a headache sometime in the afternoon. I suffer
physical withdrawal which is somewhat uncomfortable, but the fact that I could
forget to have caffeine in the first place indicates a different sort of
addiction than my alcoholism. If I wanted to quit, I would just have to go
through a couple unpleasant days and be done with it.

As for nicotine, I've gone weeks, even months without any and haven't suffered
withdrawal symptoms, but I enjoy it, so I use it on a semi regular basis, and
have been for the last 6 years.

"Addiction" is a term which can describe a wide variety of conditions. As an
alcoholic, I have a tendency to downplay addictions that aren't to dangerous
substances. However, the author obviously has some mental obsession with
pornography, he saw a problem with his porn use, and he felt like he needed
some sort of external support to cope with and curtail his use. I don't think
the term addiction is wholly inappropriate in his case.

What I don't like as much is applying the label of addiction to other porn
users. I think it's up to the individual to be honest with themselves and
decide whether they need to take drastic measures to curtail their porn use,
whether it's a bad habit, or whether it's just another outlet and presents no
threat to their emotional well-being.

~~~
sergiosgc
My coffee intake regularly creeps to the level of having a headache on
withdrawal. Personally, my approach is this:

a) Never drink coffee on Saturdays. The routine change makes it easy to skip
coffee one day.

b) If a coffee free Saturday induces a headache, skip coffee for a couple of
days.

This is, for me, enough to lower the volume of coffee I drink, thus
maintaining an acceptable level (by acceptable I don't mean healthy, I
probably still consume way too much caffeine; I mean controllable)

------
dlss
To quote the cryptonomicon, "Clarity of mind (Cm) is affected by any number of
factors, but by far the most important is horniness"
[http://www.euskalnet.net/larraorma/crypto/slide63.html](http://www.euskalnet.net/larraorma/crypto/slide63.html)

Until an article like this one considers the impact of its recommendations on
productivity, the entire debate is on the wrong topic IMO.

I mean, I'm sure by some metric I'd live a better life if I never ate alone...
but I'd also be hungrier, more focused on food, and almost surely less
productive.

For whatever reason most people seem to think that orgasam sits separate from
the other natural functions of the body. I don't. If I'm hungry I eat. If
there's someone I can eat with, all the better. I don't see why that algorithm
needs to change when it comes to sex.

------
md224
Reading this article, I get the feeling that the real problem isn't porn at
all, but rather societal attitudes toward porn and the web of shame that the
author finds himself ensnared in. He seems to admit as much towards the end of
the article.

Personally I find it kind of anthropologically fascinating that society has a
natural impulse to record the reproductive act and view such recordings as a
leisure activity.

~~~
chevas
Porn is destructive in itself and should not be dismissed as neutral, even if
you've never seen it in your own experiences or in those around you.

Porn is about control. A person tells themselves a false story about their
sexuality (even if they can't articulate it or form it into words) that goes
something like "I am not satisfied with my current sexual experiences, but if
I find the right type of images/videos/fetishes and watch them, I will be
satisfied" \-- The person fulfills their sexual desires through porn use, but
then it doesn't satisfy and they are back for more the next time.

You can't control a real person as easily as porn and so the user continually
goes back to porn. Over time the user prefers porn to the other person in the
relationship (usually a woman). Women especially, will try to compensate for
the gap by comparing themselves to the women in the porn videos, but to no
avail and the woman feels more and more dejected.

Heavy porn use also leads to erectile dysfunction and other issues (even if
not in a relationship). Some helpful info is here:
[http://yourbrainonporn.com/](http://yourbrainonporn.com/)

~~~
s_baby
>Porn is destructive in itself and should not be dismissed as neutral, even if
you've never seen it in your own experiences or in those around you.

Then so is food, tv, computer use, and anything else that can create
compulsive behavior. You're telling a very particular story about porn but it
isn't the whole story.

>Porn is about control.

Which is why women find it so threatening. Sex is about control too. If your
partner is giving out sex like they're dog treats for "good behavior" how is
your position in life any healthier? In that context maybe porn isn't so bad
after all depending on your relationship to it.

~~~
larrys
"Which is why women find it so threatening."

I would add that women also don't understand it because they don't operate
visually as men do (with respect to sexual images).

Now, I'm not sure that's the best way to put it but the fact is that there is
only a fraction of porn for women vs. porn for men. No market apparently?

If there was an innate need in women for porn and sexual images there would be
a market created for it and there would be much more porn targeted to the
female market.

Back in the day there was pretty much only 1 printed magazine with images of
naked men "Play Girl". And some would argue that that was actually read quite
a bit by gay men as opposed to women. But there were dozens of magazines which
a man could buy. On a newstand at least.

If women were stimulated the same way as men someone would have exploited
that, right? But they didn't.

Same with the internet. (Wouldn't want to guess at the ratio if anyone knows
please post.)

~~~
grogs
Women often consume different erotica, which is less video/hardcore based.
Romance/erotic romance novels seems to be a growing market.

I do think more women avoid porn/erotica due to this 'disgust' towards porn in
society.

Any remaining gap, I would assume is genuinely due to women having a lower
libido.

~~~
druiid
Indeed. My wife and friends in the same industry make quite a good living off
of romance novel writing. Women have their erotica, but it's more 'in your
head' kind of stuff, than the visual market of porn for men.

------
sebcat
Porn addict, food addict.

I don't think negative habitual behavior equals addiction.

Not to marginalize people who has problem with porn or food habits, but poor
self-control and bad habits does not equal addiction in my book. I'm probably
wrong definition wise, but I think this stance trivializes real addiction.

I mean, yes, dopamine and all that. Reward of negative behavior. But you make
your own decisions in life. You're not an insect, you're a conscious human
being.

~~~
jerf
Arguing definitions isn't very profitable. Addiction is a continuum, and where
lines get drawn vary depending on purpose. There's no One True Definition of
addiction because there's no One True Purpose for using the term.

~~~
leephillips
"There's no One True Definition of addiction"

I was under the impression that the definition used traditionally in medicine
is that denial of the addictive substance results in physiological withdrawal
symptoms; hence caffeine and heroin are addictive, but cocaine is not. [Edit:
wrong about cocaine.]

~~~
DanBC
That's one definition, but there are others used by medical community.

Increasing tolerance is a feature of some definitions. "Drug seeky" and "drug
keepy" are other features - people who hide bottles of alcohol around the
house, or people who need to find more of the drug when their supplies are
running low.

Saying that cocaine isn't addictive would be a strange definition of
addiction.

~~~
leephillips
"Saying that cocaine isn't addictive would be a strange definition of
addiction."

Yes, I was wrong about that, as apparently there are withdrawal symptoms with
cocaine.

------
angersock
Interesting bit from the article:

 _" The height of my porn watching was my adolescence -- high school -- when
each relationship felt like a splintering slat on a long rickety bridge. Porn
didn't just serve as an outlet for my sexual frustration; it was a steadying
beam to fall back on."_

I wonder for how many men this is true.

It's interesting also to see this juxtaposed with the "All men are rapists"
meme--one wonders if the absence of open affection, sexuality, and broken
standards is promoting this sort of behavior and in turn perhaps causing the
very thing that many authors claim to be afraid of.

~~~
hedonist
It's also not necessarily such a bad thing -- i.e. using porn (or alcohol,
pot, or anti-depressants; or over-eating, or compulsive shopping) to get
through the rough spots in one's dating cycle.

Mind you, I'm not saying it's a _good_ thing, or that it's without its
downsides.

I just mean we should look at these things in perspective: if our dating
culture (with all the head games) is so broken that some people have to go
through _years and years_ of phases where they just can't find a relationship
that's both gratifying and sustainable over any length of time -- and btw this
includes many people I know, even some very attractive people with plenty of
sexual options on the table -- then maybe we should start talking about _that_
, and how people can learn to do better for themselves (and their potential
mates).

And not so much about the rather crude (if temporarily effective) medicines
some people feel forced to use to get them through the darker stretches of
depression and anxiety that they can't seem to help falling into, again and
again. As a reward, it would would seem, of just wanting to find someone they
can love, and be loved by in return.

PS, re: anti-depressants -- having worked in the pharma industry for a while,
I'd recommend healthy, sex-positive, consensual amateur porn over these
insidious, soul-numbing and possibly long-term toxic concoctions they market
as "cures" to well, more or less the basic human condition, any day.

------
Tichy
Find it hard to trust that piece, too many possible agendas come to mind that
could motivate publishing it.

For what it's worth, I've been watching porn now an then and it didn't spiral
into more and more kinky and what not stuff for me. I still prefer "playboy
style" most of the time.

The thesis that porn worsens your sexual taste is probably the foundation for
a lot of ideological campaigns...

~~~
hedonist
Yeah. Also disappointing is the tendency to be completely oblivious (it would
seem) to the difference between correlation and causality. For example:

 _At the 2003 American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers meeting, two-thirds of
lawyers reported that compulsive Internet use played a significant role in
divorces over that year, and 56 percent of those divorce cases included a
partner who had an obsessive interest in pornographic websites._

i.e. one of the partners was using porn as a band-aid to ease the pain of a
much deeper problem -- which typically takes one of 3 forms: (1) both partners
love each other and are doing "everything right" but one has discovered,
before the other it would seem, that they just aren't really compatible
sexually; (2) they're still hot for each other, but other distractions
(fighting, money, kids) are getting in the way; or (3) one of the other parts
has "discovered" that they have a different chromosomal preference.

Nasty and potentially intractable issues, indeed. But porn watching by itself
-- even excessively so? In comparison, not so much.

~~~
cookiecaper
I _hate_ mention of marriages failing due to "compatibility issues". It's a
total mockery of the intent of the institution. When you marry, you covenant
_to society_ that you will _make yourself compatible_ with your spouse, even
when it's difficult to do so, as long as these terms do not breach a handful
of fundamental contractual obligations implied by the marital covenant.

If one is "sexually incompatible" with his/her spouse, they should talk about
it, recognize the issues, make compromises, and move forward. They should also
recognize that while sex is meaningful and important, it can't be a deal-
breaker for a marriage -- what happens when a partner contracts a medical
condition that precludes their participation in intercourse? This should be
recognized as a possibility going in, and people should realize that they
can't allow sexuality to overwhelm and consume larger, more important pieces
of their relationship. Pornography can cloud this crucial perspective.

~~~
hedonist
_When you marry, you covenant to society that you will make yourself
compatible with your spouse, even when it 's difficult to do so, [...]_

That's fine for you. Other people have different priorities in their lives.
And elevating the sanctity these abstract entities known as "institutions" to
the point where they feel miserable, trapped, and unfulfilled do not count
particularly high among them.

 _If one is "sexually incompatible" with his/her spouse, they should talk
about it, recognize the issues, make compromises, and move forward._

That's fine for you, if those are your priorities. But what's fine for you
isn't necessarily fine for other people.

 _They should also recognize that while sex is meaningful and important, it
can 't be a deal-breaker for a marriage ..._

Again, maybe not a deal-breaker _for you._ But for other people... I think you
see what I'm getting at here.

~~~
sergiosgc
People do not have to marry to be together. Marriage should be regarded as an
important step, where you promise to your peers that you will be with your
spouse until the end of life. This is valid even without religion.

Have a different view? Can't commit to such a long time? That's OK. Marriage
is not mandatory in a relationship (and for some people it's in fact
detrimental). Just don't marry and live happy.

~~~
gohrt
That's a proposition. Is there an argument to back it? Why should marriage be
life-long, vs time-limited?

~~~
sergiosgc
It's not a proposition. It is a definition. On Western culture, a marriage is
a life long pairing. It is also monogamous, in the same vein, by definition.

Is it lifelong and monogamous in every culture? No. It is in ours, though.

Is the definition being coopted for non lifelong pairings? I don't think most
people marry with divorce in the horizon, so even if marriage allows for
divorce, I think the public promise is still one of lifelong commitment.

------
farinasa
Men are sexually stimulated almost wholly by visuals. Some women enjoy porn,
but any attack on porn is a direct attack on men. Also, many men will
spontaneously ejaculate if not stimulated. Honestly, it is not much different
than needing to urinate or defecate. It is a bodily function that must be
taken care of or your body will take care of it for you. Watching porn is not
a bad thing. Some porn is bad, but watching it certainly is not.

------
tokenadult
Comments here decry pop neuroscience. I will recommend here a new book,
_Brainwashed: The Seductive Appeal of Mindless Neuroscience_ by Sally Satel
and Scott O. Lilienfeld, who are both thoughtful and appropriately skeptical
researchers on neuroscience topics.

[http://www.amazon.com/Brainwashed-Seductive-Appeal-
Mindless-...](http://www.amazon.com/Brainwashed-Seductive-Appeal-Mindless-
Neuroscience/dp/0465018777)

------
namuol
Are all fetishes addictions?

I think the individual is the one who decides whether they're addicted or not.

As I understand it, true porn addiction is when it interferes with your sex
life to the point that you can't enjoy sex without it, when you want to enjoy
it without it. Anything else is just a fetish.

I'm tired of watching society try to neatly categorize things as amorphous as
sexual behavior. As soon as the "experts" have something to say, people find a
reason to stop thinking about it.

~~~
lotharbot
... or when it interferes with other parts of your life. If you're constantly
late to work because you can't shut off the porn when it's time to go, that's
a definite sign of addiction.

~~~
namuol
Right -- life interfering stuff, in general, but I just think the most
prevalent issue is the interference with one's sex life once one becomes
"dependent."

~~~
lotharbot
There are people for whom "interferes with sex life" is irrelevant (they don't
have one) or isn't a symptom they have (sex continues at a normal frequency)
-- but who definitely have symptoms in other parts of their life, such as
work, other family interactions, or other hobbies.

------
rnernento
I think people are missing a big point here, in the age internet pornography a
lot of us can be exposed to some pretty weird shit potentially at some really
young ages. We don't get a chance to talk about those things rationally and
reasonably because of societal pressures and psychologically that's not a
great thing.

~~~
MartinCron
As a parent, this is the thing that scares me most. The most risqué thing I
found as a kid is very, very tame compared to mainstream Internet porn and I
wonder what that kind of stuff might do if (when) my kids stumble upon it.

------
tux1968
Porn is used in medicine. Reproductive clinics use porn to help their patients
reach climax in order to provide seminal fluid samples. This to me suggests,
that like most things, porn can be a good thing, or a bad thing. It's much
more about moderation or addiction in general than porn in particular.

~~~
baddox
I don't think the medical argument is sufficient. They also break your ribs to
do heart surgery.

~~~
tux1968
That's exactly the point. Sometimes breaking a persons ribs is a good thing.
The medical argument I made was just meant as an example of a positive use of
porn. There are surely others, such as in sexual dysfunction therapies, and
perhaps in spicing up intimate relations within long term relationships. It's
just not a black and white situation where porn should clearly be cast as a
societal evil.

My goal was to illustrate at least one uncontroversial use of porn that was
positive. Someone willing to concede this point must then think more carefully
about which uses of porn are positive and which are negative rather than
dismissing them all as inherently negative.

~~~
baddox
But I used the ribs example to show that something can be used medically that
is (correct me if I'm missing something) universally bad outside of that
specific medical use. It's not a matter of moderation.

------
hedonist
Another interesting tidbit:

 _At Brigham Young University in 2007, 21 percent of male college students
reported watching porn "every day or almost every day."_

~~~
xtc
In their eyes it beats a carbonated beverage addiction.

------
yason
It's not about porn, it's about addiction.

If your psyche needs an addiction you will find one. It could be tobacco,
porn, alcohol, or shopping, but nevertheless you will find your outlet for
your addictive behaviour. Different addictions come with different
consequences. Porn is a relatively safe addiction (well, I suppose it's
possible to physically wear out your genitalia so that it begins to hurt?) so
I don't get the title, really.

------
Raphmedia
This article is bullshit. Addiction is an illness. Pornography is not.

Pornography by itself, as strange as the video may be, is not a problem by
itself.

I don't know what country / generation / family the author is from, but I sure
as hell wouldn't want to come from there.

I talk openly with my friends and some coworkers about sex and pornography and
I sure don't feel ashamed to do so!

~~~
lotharbot
Food is not a problem by itself, but there are people addicted to eating
(sometimes specific types of foods.)

Same with alcohol. Having a drink is perfectly healthy, but there are people
who are addicted to the bottle.

"Addiction is an illness" \-- and one can be addicted to things that are
otherwise perfectly acceptable. This does not provide a basis for excluding
pornography from the category of "things someone can be addicted to".

~~~
Raphmedia
I am not saying that it is exempt from being an addiction for some people. The
issue for me with this article is the approach the author takes. The article
reeks with guilt toward pornography.

------
mrcactu5
the internet is made for porn ♫♫♫
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bQo05WkHyc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bQo05WkHyc)

------
mkramlich
Replace 'porn' with 'sex' in any discussion about porn 'addiction' and it will
have an enlightening effect, I think.

