
After 6 years of lawsuits, we've won the war on magnets is over - vezycash
https://old.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/8sioxt/after_6_years_of_lawsuits_weve_won_the_war_on/
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yammajr
So, I'm not a lawyer, but the 10th Circuit ruling doesn't read like this is
over to me, it reads like this may be a temporary reprieve for Zen magnets.

> As a result, the FDO is vacated, the Initial Decision is reinstated, and the
> matter is remanded to the Commission with directions to provide an impartial
> tribunal for Complaint Counsel’s appeal from the Initial Decision. In
> particular, the Commission is instructed to conduct the appellate review
> without the participation of Commissioner Adler.

The court found no issue with the decisions of the CPSC, but with one of the
commissioners having made a decision prior to the decision making process. So
yes, Zen can sell their magnets, but the CPSC should reconduct its review -
and I don't see anywhere that suggests that given the same data they have
today, they can't or won't make the same decision.

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powerslacker
How's about instead of regulating magnets we regulate parents?

If your kid is seriously injured or dies from eating too many magnets you have
to pick up trash off the freeway for five years. I'm not saying human life is
only worth five years of weekends - I just think it would be an effective
policy.

~~~
londons_explore
If your kid dies from doing something that you should reasonably have
protected them against, that's manslaughter

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foobarbazetc
First kid that swallows one of these = bankruptcy.

~~~
frogpelt
Why though?

~~~
todd8
These magnets are so strong that they represent a hazard to the digestive
system. A couple of these can pinch a fold of intestines and stay lodged while
interfering with circulation in the pinched tissue. At least that’s the claim
I’ve heard; I’ve seen no case reports that this has happened.

~~~
jiveturkey
[https://www.livescience.com/49058-tiny-magnets-damages-
boy-i...](https://www.livescience.com/49058-tiny-magnets-damages-boy-
intestines.html)

there are other reports, very easy to find.

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marshray
I see a lot of folks who speak like libertarian-minded young men jumping up
and down about how the CPSC action is, like, the stupidest thing ever. I don't
recall seeing anyone who identified as working in an emergency room or
doctor's office saying so.

On the other hand, I do recall seeing Youtube videos of young males literally
putting these magnets in their mouth to emulate tongue piercings, etc.

~~~
romwell
You can same the same thing about Tide pods, and yet we don't have a
nationwide bad of similar products.

The question is not about whether these magnets can be dangerous if ingested.
The ridiculousness of CPSC here is that they wouldn't allow the sale of
magnets _under any conditions whatsoever_ , putting them into a category more
dangerous than guns, explosives, and military weapons.

As for the dangers, there are statistics out there showing that a response
beyond sticking a warning label is disproportionate, considering the history
of regulating consumer products, many of which are highly lethal (e.g. Tide
pods and other household chemicals).

~~~
marshray
Tide pods are not actively marketed as toys, they are indeed marketed as
household chemicals.

I agree CPSC should not be able to ban the sale of magnets in general, but it
seems reasonable to me that they be able regulate how products are marketed.
Bare rare-earth magnetic material is probably inherently unsafe for use as a
kids toy and should not be marketed as such.

[https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=neodymium+toy](https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=neodymium+toy)
[https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=neodymium+ki...](https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=neodymium+kids+toy)

~~~
romwell
>rare-earth magnetic material is probably inherently unsafe for use as a kids
toy and should not be marketed as such.

Indeed, and you will find that Zen Magnets, who is fighting this in courts,
has not been marketing their products as _toys_ [1].

What you say makes sense, and Zen Magnets has made extensive efforts to
educate about the potential dangers - and has made multiple offers to CPSC to
come forth with requirements on how they could market the product safely.

CPSC has rejected such offers.

What you see on Amazon is the result of this rejection: CPSC has lost big, and
now unlicensed 3rd parties are selling off-brand magnets as "toys", and aren't
even breaking the law.

Has CPSC stopped at simply requiring what you asked, these products would have
been clearly illegal. Because CPSC abused their power, this is not the case.

You can read more on the legalities here[2].

Quote:

>Zen has made clear from the get-go that it does not oppose reasonable safety
regulations of its product. Indeed, it has petitioned the CPSC to issue a
regulation with rigorous requirements for packaging and labeling. Instead, the
agency has petulantly insisted that it will accept nothing less than the
complete capitulation of the company to the agency’s demands that it cease
sale of its only product.

>From a safety standpoint, the CPSC’s ineffectual regulatory and litigation
strategy has resulted in opening the marketplace to companies who, unlike Zen,
have no interest in promoting safe use of SREMs. Because the agency’s position
on both the regulation and the recall of the Zen product have been overruled,
the market is now wide open, with no requirements for safety precautions
applicable to the product in place. This result is on the agency.

End quote.

[1][https://zenmagnets.com/](https://zenmagnets.com/)

[2][https://nancynord.net/2018/06/12/shihan-and-the-order-of-
the...](https://nancynord.net/2018/06/12/shihan-and-the-order-of-the-phoenix)

