
Pando, the Most Massive Organism on Earth, Is Shrinking - digital55
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/science/pando-aspens-utah.html
======
jessaustin
_Foraging cattle, allowed into the forest in the summer, are another factor in
Pando’s shrinkage._

Foraging cattle in Western USA are one of the two primary threats to the
ecosystem, the other being the "wild" horses that we're too stupid to cull.
It's criminal that Western ranchers are allowed to destroy land that belongs
to everyone in order to barely eke out a meager existence with the tiny herds
that land can support, while only occasionally paying pitifully low "grazing
fees". Meanwhile the vast majority of American beef is raised in the Central
Timezone, by people who own or rent the land they use for pasture. [0]

Any fiscally responsible person would see Cliven Bundy and family in prison.
They're already paying a pittance to destroy the environment of the West, and
then they cry about even that?

[0] A guy I met from New Mexico a month ago was bragging that they could run
12 head per square mile. We can easily run ten times that density, and more if
conditions are right.

~~~
poulsbohemian
> the other being the "wild" horses that we're too stupid to cull.

I'd like to hear more about your take on this. This past August I had an
opportunity to take a ride with a lady who had adopted and trained several of
these wild horses through an adoption/auction program run by the State of
Oregon. To my ears it sounded very effective - the state rounds up the horses
to keep them off public grazing lands and cares for them until they can be
sold off. Felt like a win-win for nature, the horses, the state, and horse
owners.

~~~
jessaustin
It's wonderful that some are rounded up and sold to people who want them, and
it was even better back when there was more demand for cheap horses so that
more were sold. The misguided meddlers who ended horse slaughter in USA
(against the recommendation of every single association of veterinarians)
destroyed the market for cheap horses, so it's no surprise that those numbers
are lower. There's no guarantee that any particular mustang will make a good
riding horse, so fewer people are willing to deal with that risk. The
slaughter ban was bad for lots of domesticated horses about 8-10 years ago
(one could drive around and see fields full of starving and neglected horses),
but that level of owner is largely without horses at this point. If it's too
big a risk to keep a few domesticated horses around, it's certainly too big a
risk to buy mustangs.

That's only part of this particular issue, however. Even if five times the
current numbers were sold to willing owners, feral horses would still be
destroying the environment. They aren't native and they are uniquely suited to
disrupting the life cycle of native plants. The American hunter is probably
not ready to control this population in the way that e.g. deer and elk
populations are controlled. The best solution is probably sterilization, but
even that would be very difficult at this scale. That is especially the case
given the level of interference that could be expected from the Humane
Society, ASPCA, etc.

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blacksmith_tb
Sad news, but while Pando is definitely one of the largest organisms on Earth,
far larger is a single fungal colony in eastern Oregon that covers 964
hectares[1]

1: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-
true-...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-
organism-is-fungus/)

~~~
briankelly
In this case, the title is exact in a subtle way: Pando is the largest known
organism by mass, but there are only estimates on the mass of the fungal
colony.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
Sure, though it isn't like we've weighed Pando either - I would say we just
have better estimates of its mass (and of course "largest" is ambiguous as to
whether it means area or mass here).

~~~
briankelly
Right, but both the title and the body of the article use the unambiguous
"most massive" not "largest."

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zhynn
"Quivering"? Who calls them "Quivering Aspen"? I have only ever heard Quaking
Aspen. Is that not right? Is this a Berenstein Bears situation?

~~~
24gttghh
>Populus tremuloides - American aspen, American poplar, aspen, aspen poplar,
golden aspen, golden trembling aspen, leaf aspen, mountain aspen, poplar,
popple, quaking asp, quaking aspen, quiver-leaf, trembling aspen, trembling
poplar, Vancouver aspen, white poplar

[https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/pdf...](https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/pdf_files/popaspeneng.pdf)

------
honkycat
Of course it's fucking cattle. OF COURSE.

We need to get a leash on these ranchers who are making millions plundering
our natural heritage and belching massive amounts of CO2 into the air.

Too much of OUR land and too many of OUR resources are handed to these people
for them to chop it up and sell it back to us. It needs to end.

Drop the subsidies for the meat industry. Tax the real cost. Tax the carbon.
Driving up the cost of meat will incentivize people to eat less of it.

~~~
jessaustin
Most USA beef is raised by people who own or rent the land they use. Only in
the West do unsavory types like Cliven Bundy get such a sweet deal from the
federal government. Even then they barely make ends meet, because the land is
so unsuited to grazing. We should end the whole shoddy pretense of grazing
fees enabling environmental destruction, but it would take a political miracle
to get that through the Senate.

~~~
ticviking
Note: many of these families would HAPPILY buy and maintain the land
themselves but the government has decided that holding the land in "trust" and
allowing a tragedy of the commons to destroy the landscape is a better idea.

~~~
mtnGoat
i doubt they have the finances to buy these vast amounts of land... even at
$500/acre you'd need millions in cash available to win an auction or sale.

while on the subject, i doubt "many" want to buy, it's much easier to rent,
scam and complain.

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aeternus
Who says we should save it?

Perhaps having 47,000 clones with zero genetic diversity has resulted in a
population that is unable to adapt, especially vs. species with more genetic
diversity.

Why does this population deserve saving rather than allowing new populations
to grow & flourish?

~~~
kevinh
Couldn't you make this argument about all endangered species?

~~~
gameswithgo
yes and I'm sure he does.

~~~
aeternus
I'm just thankful those old cyanobacteria weren't environmentally conscious.
None of these modern Eukaryotic species would be around if they hadn't happily
'polluted' the entire planet with oxygen.

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beauzero
It's good to hear mule deer are doing better though. Montana mulies were
getting very rare as a kid because of escaped red deer and hunting pressure
(live above treeline mostly vs black tails which live lower on average).

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mtnGoat
do all of you commenters pay for nytimes? or is there an easy way to get
around the paywall when i click links from HN?

~~~
parliament32
Use archive.fo

[https://archive.fo/3pftd](https://archive.fo/3pftd)

