

Ask HN: How much are full stack developers worth? - x0ry

15+ years writing software, web, and database code.  Am I doing OK with 80k&#x2F;year + basic benefits living in TN?  The Robert Half report reads 140k but my employer is denying it.  I made it to the last round of Triplebyte but didnt&#x27; make the 1st cut.  I&#x27;m currently replacing an application a well known company has vested millions in.  Should I be asking for more?  I&#x27;m just not sure how many solutions need to be built before I draw a line in the sand.  My skill sets include C#, Javascript, PowerShell, AngularJS, ASP.NET, HTML, CSS, MS-SQL 2008, IIS, Linux, Apache, mySQL, PHP, etc.<p>EDIT:  Loving the feedback, thank you all!  For clarification, the market is Cool Springs&#x2F;Brentwood area about 10-20 minutes outside of Nashville.
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hkarthik
Absolute numbers really mean nothing in determining if you are being paid what
you are worth. Just like in real estate, location is everything.

The best metric is to determine the high water mark for being considered "well
paid" given the cost of living where you live, and then adjusting your
expectations around that.

Software developers in most US metros are usually paid well above the median
income in their area. If you aren't making that much, you have two options:

1) Move to a different area where average developers salaries exceed median
income levels.

2) Work remotely for a company in such areas, where even a discounted salary
for their market puts you above the median where you currently live.

My take on the salary that you've stated is that it feels low if it's in
Nashville or Chattanooga, but it might be high if you're living in Johnson
City. This is totally subjective based on TN developers that I've worked with
in the past.

~~~
x0ry
I hadn't thought to pull that, thank you. The median income is around $79,894.

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fsk
Question #1:

Do you like your current job? If it's a nice environment, you might regret
finding another job where you get paid 30% more but it's a lot more
unpleasant.

Even if you interview and get a good vibe, bad things can happen. Your boss
can quit or be fired 3 months after you start (happened to me). Your actual
boss might not be who you thought it was when you were interviewing (also
happened to me). But the same bad things could also happen in your current
job.

Assuming the answer to #1 is "meh" or "sort of" or "I want to leave":

Question #2: Are you able to interview and get an offer for more somewhere
else?

If you can't get more somewhere else, then you aren't underpaid.

If you can get more somewhere else, and you think it's time to move on, then
go.

Also, don't compare TN salaries to California or NY or Boston salaries. As
other people said, you need to adjust for cost of living.

Also, if you do get an offer you want to take, go, don't take a counter-offer.
If your employer wants to pay you more, then they should do it now.

~~~
x0ry
#1 - Yes. My major complaint: I have a non technical manager who sets
unreasonable timelines.

#2 - I think so, wish me luck... :)

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goo
You could make more -- how much you make depends on what the market will bear,
and the more sales savvy you have, the higher price you'll get for your
product (you!).

The only way to know how much more you could make is to find out -- salary
markets vary substantially between regions, so a developer making 140k in the
bay area may struggle to find a job paying more than 80k in TN.

Salaries are a result of a negotiation with the organization at hand, and one
of the key elements to a successful negotiation is to be both providing more
value than you cost to that organization, and to have the ability to walk away
from the table. Your best alternative, which gives you that power, is the most
important element of a negotiation. Read up on BATNA:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiate...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement)

Also keep _their_ BATNA in mind -- if they don't have anyone who can replace
you, and it's making a bunch of money, then they have a poor position to
negotiate from, and you can get more from them.

~~~
x0ry
This points out one of the hardest challenges for me. I'm not a great sales
person / negotiator. I'm a geek. When I clock out, I go home and do this same
stuff for fun. Managers can see right through this and use it as leverage. Add
to the fact I don't have a college degree, and the rest is history. There's a
tricky balance between confidence and arrogance and I think its an area I need
to improve.

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walterclifford
> 15+ years writing software, web, and database code. Am I doing OK with
> 80k/year

That's about what I was making with less than two years experience at an
extremely small non-profit with a very limited budget as their full stack
developer - so yeah I think it's safe to say you should/could be getting more.

[N.B. this is in Boston which probably has a higher cost of living / average
wage...but still nuts someone with your background/experience is making what I
was at the non-profit]

~~~
hkarthik
To someone living on one of the coasts, it seems absurdly low. But it's all
relative to the cost of living.

Here's what a house in Chattanooga, TN costs:

[http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6063-Heritage-Ridge-Dr-
Hix...](http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6063-Heritage-Ridge-Dr-Hixson-
TN-37343/80502183_zpid/)

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alain94040
Take a look at AngelList's job listings, they have the benefit of showing a
range that is representative of the first tier of tech jobs.

For Nashville, I only one job (Android dev) with range 50-90k. But for
Chattanooga, I see several jobs that range 60-100k.

With 15 years of experience, you should be able to qualify for the high-end of
those ranges. Based on this data, it appears that 80k is not hugely underpaid.
You could make a bit more.

~~~
x0ry
Nice resource. I found a creative technologist position available for 110k +
4.25% equity at one of the local start ups. Thank you!

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vogt
While all of the points being made here about cost of living in TN versus the
Bay Area etc are accurate, 80 is still a low salary for the area for your
experience and skillset. Taking your post at face value, anyway.

In Texas, which is pretty comparable to Tennessee COL wise, you would likely
fetch around 110-120, if not more.

~~~
x0ry
Everything's bigger in Texas right? :) I'll keep them in mind for remote work.

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nphyte
On a completely different note. Could you share your TripleByte experience
here? Thanks

~~~
x0ry
I took the multiple choice coding test and passed! They then scheduled me a
phone interview with Ammon Bartram. Here I got to share some of the projects
I've worked on and he tested my proficiency with some general open ended
questions. After we chat, I felt pretty good about the 3rd and final screen
sharing interview. I was wrong. My environment was setup, and we jumped right
into the challenges over Google Hangouts. There were 3 of them, the one I
chose to complete in C# was printing a spiral shape of N length to stdout.
This seemed pretty easy at first, but proved to be a bit more difficult.
(Involves recursion over a 2-dimensional array.) I finished the task, just not
within our 45 minute window. Ammon also stumped me on some very fundamental
aspects of C# which I believe ultimately led to their decision. Lesson
learned: You might know how to piece together a perfectly good application
using resources on stack overflow but that doesn't make you elite. The more
proficient you are in speaking to memory management within your applications,
the better. Definitely an awesome experience and something I will be trying
again in the future.

