
Can't sign in to Google calendar on my Samsung refrigerator - lelf
https://productforums.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/calendar/UhfpcwO0X0c/paA4iQNen9IJ
======
codemac
The problem here is not the refrigerator, or the software on it.

I repeat.

The problem here is not the refrigerator!

We're building a shitty internet, not an internet of shitty things. If
integrating with an online calendar means having to have a software team at
the ready at all times for the whim's of some service's API updates.. we have
failed society in a deep way.

The API that Google should be releasing for Google calendar is CalDAV, because
it's a standard that people can depend on. Google - by choosing to not use
that standard _AND_ to not get a different one standardized with their peers,
shows they don't want to be part of an Internet.

~~~
codemac
Even when they try to support it, they changed the endpoint location (?! I
guess even Google is bad at URLs), and their CalDAV implementation only
supports the calls of a popular enough client they don't have control over.

"We have not yet provided a full implementation of all of the relevant
specifications, however for many clients such as Apple iCal™ the CalDAV
protocol should interoperate correctly."[0]

[0]: [https://developers.google.com/google-
apps/calendar/caldav/v2...](https://developers.google.com/google-
apps/calendar/caldav/v2/guide)

~~~
jakejake
We have an integration with google calendar and they seem to make endless
tweaks, like date+time zone requirements. About every six months I have to go
in and undo what was done the last time. Debugging is also a nightmare when it
comes to validating calendar feeds.

Every time I see "google calendar" in our issue tracker, I die a little
inside.

------
VMG
Ubik, 1969

> “From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with
> it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt's money-
> gulping door.

> "I'll sue you," the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said,
> "I've never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.”

~~~
ethbro
Step 0) Disconnect any phone or network cables and ensure RF jammers covering
WiFi and cell frequencies are active before commencing home appliance repair.

~~~
redthrowaway
As IoT becomes more ubiquitous, the people who plaster their houses in tin
foil will become less ridiculous.

~~~
mindslight
Nah. Pop open the cover and install an aftermarket control board that runs
Free software. Eventually, this will be more user-friendly (better interface
one doesn't have to relearn every monthly update), convenient (better software
features), and economical (how many appliances are thrown out due to software
malfunctions).

~~~
pavel_lishin
I've had Ubuntu running on my old desktop for a few years now. It's literally
a 50% chance as to whether I'll be able to get the GUI login screen to come
up, and be able to log in successfully on my first try, without having to ssh
in from another machine and fiddle around with things.

This isn't an exaggeration. 50%.

~~~
simoncion
Are you running the nouveau driver? If you are, know that it's notoriously
unstable and crashy, especially older versions of it.

I've installed and run Linux on many computers over the past $WAY_TOO_LONG.
Anecdotes aren't data, but your experience is an outlier these days.

Regardless. I gather that you're trying to slyly imply that your bad
experience with Ubuntu means that Free Software is synonymous with low quality
or something.

That's a silly thing to do.

~~~
pavel_lishin
You're right, FS is not an indicator of quality one way or the other, no more
than paid software is.

------
makecheck
I remember seeing a commercial for those things where they drafted the Top
Chef brothers, and even _in the commercial_ it looked extremely awkward to
use. "Oh, let's just look up something...(walk over...bend down...glance at
screen...slowly punch things in...)."

Even if it were the best thing ever, I know technology and I know that fridges
last years longer than any gadget ever has. Any choice of touchscreen, OS or
even network connection technology would probably be a "bad idea" in 5-10
years.

~~~
jaynos
Same reason why GPS feature in a car is useless. I'm using google maps on my
phone anyway due to the better interface and constant updates.

~~~
jonknee
I do appreciate my car GPS for when I'm outside of cell range though (which is
frequently--mountains and radios don't work well together).

~~~
ethanbond
A mistake I'll make only once: driving to Montreal only to realize my phone
was useless once I got to the city limits and needed to figure out how to get
to my hotel.

~~~
cguess
If you start the navigation ahead of time it'll keep going even if you're
offline. It caches the route and gps waypoints. Worked great on my trip from
NYC to Quebec City.

~~~
ethanbond
Ah, that's good to know. I didn't do that since I know how to get to Montreal
itself easily. From my front door: left, left, right, straight * 3 hours.

A one time mistake, for sure, though!

------
begriffs
I guess we know our place socially don't we?

"The upper-class kitchen, designed to be entered only by servants, is
identifiable at once: it's beat-up, inconvenient, and out-of-date, with lots
of wood, no Formica whatever, and a minimum of accessories and labor-saving
appliances like dishwashers and garbage disposals. Why tolerate these noisy
things when you can have a silent servant do precisely what they do? The
upper-class kitchen does have a refrigerator, but so antique that it has
rounded corners and a big white coil on top. Neatness and modernity enter as
we move down toward the middle class, and the more your kitchen resembles a
lab, the worse for you socially." \-- Class, a Guide to the American Status
System

~~~
ufmace
Seems to be this book: [http://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-
System/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-
System/dp/0671792253)

~~~
hmahncke
This book is an American treasure.

------
atestu
If you like this, you should check out
[http://twitter.com/internetofshit](http://twitter.com/internetofshit) (I am
not the author)

~~~
dasboth
Thanks, I just successfully wasted 15 minutes on it. 10/10, would
procrastinate again.

------
ohitsdom
"Samsung support only advised to restart the refrigerator and check
timezone..."

What a time to be alive.

~~~
qb45
I'm not an old fart _by far_ , but even I have never imagined rebooting a
refrigerator. I'm floored. It sounds like some obscure IT insider joke except
that this time it's for real. I don't know what to expect next.

~~~
myth_buster
"The trial period for your Freezer™©® has expired."

~~~
function_seven
"Your ice maker comes free with licenses for up to 1,000 cubes a year! For
only $8.99 a month, you can enjoy up to 5,000 cubes. Add crushed ice for an
additional $2.95. Cancel anytime."

~~~
beat
Don't give them any ideas.

~~~
rvense
I think there's an episode in a Ray Bradbury short story where a character
argues with his door because it won't let him in because he hasn't paid the
subscription for his door lock.

The take away is that IoT under capitalism is going to suck.

------
h00k
"I bought the fridge so my wife could keep up with my calendar. I hope this
gets fixed soon. That is a lot of wasted money if no one can use this
anymore."

If only there were other ways of checking or sharing an electronic calendar!
The future is now.

~~~
exelius
Yeah, you WOULD kind of be better off (both financially and feature-wise) just
gluing an iPad Mini to the front of the fridge...

~~~
Someone1234
No need to even glue. They sell things like "FridgePad - Magnetic Refrigerator
Mount for iPad" that is what it says. Magnets that hold an iPad (Mini or full)
to a standard fridge. You can also get 3M mounted ones which allow you to slip
in an iPad.

Typically it is cheaper to buy a regular fridge and add an iPad than a smart
fridge.

Also it is cheaper to buy four(!) iPads and back-seat tablet holder for a
minivan than an integrated DVD player. Easier to replace when it dies too.
Those DVD players can easily run $1500+.

~~~
exelius
Most high-end fridges these days are stainless steel, which is non-magnetic.
So you'd need to glue it on (or find some other way).

~~~
sib
It turns out that the high-end stainless steel fridges actually have ferrous
metal components that enable the use of magnets. It's only the mid-tier
stainless steel ones that are non-magnetic. (Source: research for a product
launched last year which includes a fridge-mountable magnetic remote)

~~~
cglace
With what I paid for my fridge I would hate to see what a high end fridge
costs. . .

------
vvpan
I have a feeling that internet of things is going to be a disaster...

~~~
noonespecial
The first gen IoT stuff is going to be a walled garden, compuserve/aol mess.
Some lessons seem to need to be learned the hard way every damn time.

~~~
oldmanjay
I'm a bit under the weather and so my mind isn't really serving up any good
examples of what I'm guessing would be the opposite, a standard prepared ahead
of testing the market for suitability via the "hard way." Do you know of any?
Most of what comes to mind are stillborn messes like XHTML.

~~~
pjc50
Broadcast TV? No hardware lock-in, accessible from range of equipment, only
update was from B&W to colour.

~~~
steve-howard
Also the digital transition, which was a significant effort:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television_transition_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television_transition_in_the_United_States)

------
vkou
Welcome to the internet of things that don't work.

My apartment's fridge looks to be at least a decade old - somehow, it's not
clear to me that spotty integration with AltaVista Calendars, or whatever it
is we used back in the dark days of 2005 would be any kind of value add.

~~~
sofaofthedamned
My old colleague who used to break bootloaders and such stuff for a living,
called it the 'Internet of broken crap'. Never have truer words been spoken.

------
gjkood
I believe we need to measure ourselves on how close we are to the imaginings
of the The Jetsons[1].

Do we need to create a universal standard to measure how close/far we are
to/from The Jetsons?

[1].
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jetsons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jetsons)

~~~
dasboth
The fact that you have to explain a reference to The Jetsons with a Wikipedia
link makes me feel old.

~~~
ethbro
The Jetsons is that old show where they're yellow and live in Springfield,
right? /insult-to-injury

~~~
fein
I always thought Futurama was the next logical step after the Jetsons.

------
pjc50
Coincidentally I just saw this on twitter:
[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151214/07452133070/light...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151214/07452133070/lightbulb-
drm-philips-locks-purchasers-out-third-party-bulbs-with-firmware-update.shtml)

"The lights are going out all over Europe; we shall not see them go on again
in our lifetime. Or until we jailbreak the firmware."

------
Eric_WVGG
I was impressed and a little amazed by how deadpan and serious the messages in
the discussion are… nobody stops to reflect on the sheer insanity that we’re
all giggling at over here.

I assume, anyway, eventually my attention wandered and I skipped to the end,
where a charming young lad does indeed go unhinged over “samsucks” and heroin-
addicted mothers.

~~~
watty
I'm more amazed by how everyone on HN is so shocked by a computer on a fridge.
We live in an age where powerful computers with touchscreens can be had for
tens of dollars... what's so shocking about an underpowered computer on a
fridge? What's so shocking about wanting it to function as advertised?

~~~
fixermark
Mostly the expectation that it would function as advertised, I assume. I
imagine that flies in the face of the experience of a lot of people on HN. ;)

It's also a little funny that the report ends up on the Google product forums,
given that Google doesn't make refrigerators. Such is life in the Internet of
Things world though; when the network breaks, everyone and no-one is to blame.

------
exelius
I have a Samsung refrigerator that is supposed to be Internet-connectible. I
wasted about 5 minutes on it before giving up. The shoddy quality of the
software combined with the low marginal utility of having my refrigerator
connected to the Internet just didn't make it worth more than 5 minutes of my
time.

~~~
dasboth
The marginal utility of having a refrigerator connected to the Internet is not
something I ever thought someone would have to estimate.

~~~
Splines
I have a "smart" washer and dryer. I booted the companion app up, briefly
considered what I was actually trying to do, and abandoned the whole thing. At
least the things work just fine in an unconnected state.

Not to be all "get off my lawn", but some things don't need to be smart.

~~~
nkrisc
This is why I go out of my way to be appliances that have no "smart"
capability whatsoever. They're useless and I'll probably never use it. I got
my 55" TV for hundreds of dollars cheaper than the comparable "smart"
varieties, simply because it only did the one thing it was any good at anyway:
displaying video output.

~~~
r00fus
The problem is, you'll likely get "smart" features thrown in "for free" (read
priced into model) if you want a decent screen in the future.

~~~
nkrisc
In the future, yeah, that seems it will become unavoidable. Luckily for now I
was totally able to avoid it, even though I did have to actively seek a new,
dumb TV.

------
ihsw
Refurbished/used home appliances -- yet another way to leak credentials.

I look forward to a day when the internal components of home appliances are
salvaged on the off-chance that a user's credentials could be found in them.

You can bet that off-brand devices will ask for a username/password and store
it locally in plaintext.

~~~
duderific
This is already happening with used/refurbished copiers (not a home appliance
usually, but still.)

With many copiers, all scans are kept in memory. So copies of things with
SSN's or other confidential information are just sitting there in the copier's
memory, waiting to be retrieved by the next owner.

~~~
busterarm
And sadly, you often don't even need to buy the copier to do this.

These things are sitting out in public with little attention and it's
frequently trivial to pull this stuff down via network...

------
cbsmith
We really are living the dream of first world problems.

That said, integration with calendaring software in particular is way harder
than it should be.

------
djhworld
This is why I hate proprietary systems like this, too many options for
failure, you're at the whim of the manufacturer.

------
ed_blackburn
I am surprised Samsung don't point them at their own service. Said service can
then redirect to google and act as an anti-corruption layer. No doubt they
could also find out how many devices are online and wether people are
updating.

------
nkrisc
What's sort of funny is that the only people who could raise a real stink in
the right place, the technologically literate, would probably never buy such a
fridge. Meanwhile, purchasing this looks like a good idea to the
technologically illiterate, and when it doesn't work they complain to Google
instead of Samsung. Winning strategy for Samsung!

------
AdmiralAsshat
This highlights my biggest concern about the Internet of Things: security. If
you can't update it, you can't patch it in the event of security holes. Most
of these companies can't even be bothered to patch their routers. How am I
possibly going to trust a company to patch their refrigerator?

------
tdkl
"bickerdyke Top Contributor250 Best Answers

Sounds like your fridge needs a software update to use the new API version."

> Samsung

> software update

Seems someone needs a new fridge.

------
wklauss
This is actually a very good example to have around every time we go into the
IoT discussions. We need new interaction models and new platforms that solve
the issue with updating several things in the house. I have 6 or 7 devices
that I now update frequently (computer, tablet, phone, set top box, watch,..)
and it's starting to be a really annoying and time consuming process. Soon
I'll have to add my car and who knows what else.

------
ArekDymalski
"Very anxious to get this fixed as this is how my young daughter knows her
daily schedule."

This comment terrifies me. It sounds like that I kind of future I've read
about in dystopian literature.

~~~
salgernon
There could be a very good reason for this: children on the autistic spectrum
often rely on (A) their next few steps being clearly and explicitly defined,
and (B) things not changing. (However, this is a good reason to use a low
technology solution that won't break, eg, paper.)

~~~
ArekDymalski
Thank you for this comment.

------
CptMouse
I'm shocked -shocked, I tell you- to hear that Samsung is absolute trash. Yet
people fall for their bullshit over and over again, despite them openly not
giving a fuck about customers, laws, competition, or common sense and basic
decency. Yet try to argue with the average user who will keep praising their
new Crapsung phone, while in the same sentence telling you how it was being
repaired for 3 weeks because of a random hardware failure* . It's hard to
contain my frustration towards people who buy Samsung (and thus "encouraging"
them) when they should know better. I draw some consolation from their
eventual inevitable fall into irrelevance (despite their ties to the corrupt
SK government) - the shared fate of most inane, incompetent, and evil
behemoths.

TL;DR fuck Samsung; stop keeping those assholes in business

* admittedly a bad example, but whatever you choose it will fail to convey their true awfulness anyway

------
yk
And this is, why there sits a Linux PC next to my "smart tv" in my living
room. The thing about "smart tvs" and I imagine freezers is, that the friendly
easy to use interface creates problems that were solved in the early 80ies for
computers, and it interfaces with a ridiculously underpowered processor.

~~~
jnevill
This is it too. We use Netflix on the SmartTv, but everything else runs
through Kodi on a little HTPC I built. It's updated automatically, has plugins
to access internet content, and works nicely with my HDHomeRun for Comcrap
cable. I want my TV to just be a dumb monitor, I want my car's stereo system
to just be an amp with speakers, and I want my fridge to keep food cold. I'll
supply the hardware and software for internet/content/whatever so I can update
and control it myself.

------
sophiedeziel
IoT problems... I fear that some hacker groups from communist states DDoS
smart thermostats. We’ll call it Cold War 2.0

------
rconti
I bought a Samsung fridge last year. The documentation referenced internet
features that my fridge did not have.

As I posted on Facebook at the time: "I'm not sure if I'm more appalled that
there are fridges with WiFi, or upset that mine doesn't have it."

------
SixSigma
Welcome to the Internet of Things

20 November 2014 - problem reported on fridges costing in excess of $2,000

...

23 Feb 2015 - problem on some models resolved

...

4 June 2014 - original poster from 20 Nov has working fridge

...

Dec 2015 - still not fixed for all fridges

------
daigoba66
It's cheaper, and probably a better UX, to duct tape a tablet to the fridge
door.

~~~
cstross
It's _much_ cheaper, and _definitely_ a better UX, to buy a whiteboard and
hang it on or beside the fridge.

(BTDT. Why waste $50-250 on a tablet? If I _really_ want to tote the
whiteboard with me when I go to the shops I just snap a photo of it to view on
my phone, then delete the shopping list when I get home.)

~~~
ascagnel_
At least use a paper calendar -- the whiteboard can get erased if
someone/something rubs against it.

~~~
squeaky-clean
This is why we need a smart whiteboard, so we can see the history of what was
written on it, and undo accidental erasing/drawing. Maybe even connect it to
my butt with a companion app so you can see your whiteboard notes on the go,
or share them to facebook/twitter/instagram.

(...Hopefully the sarcasm is obvious).

------
rasz_pl
Samsung employs tens of thousands of software engineers, all working in small
isolated groups. One hand has no clue what the other is doing. Hardcoded,
outdated, proprietary and broken are just a few selling points!

TV that lets your neighbour remotely enable buildin webcam in the middle of
the night? Wifi enabled digital camera running ancient linux emailing pictures
in the clear? Thats Samsung.

------
gvb
Oh my, "Rawson" is really Eliza!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA)

Rawson: I see that you are facing issues with the calendar app.

...

Rawson: I understand that must make you feel upset.

Rawson: If there was any other option, I would have definetely provided you
with that. I hope you understand.

------
sliverstorm
Well, at least a calendar is fitting for a refrigerator, as opposed to a
twitter client or whatever.

~~~
jacquesm
Why? (not that I would endorse a twitter client, I just don't see the use case
for having your fridge be 'calendar enabled')

~~~
tgb
Calendars are a classic thing to stick to a fridge by magnets.

~~~
beat
Magnets affect computing devices and are thus a violation of your terms of
service and void your warranty...

------
thesimon
Desktop version:
[https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/calendar/Uhfpcw...](https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/calendar/UhfpcwO0X0c/paA4iQNen9IJ)

------
daveguy
What's scary is there are hundreds of messages from people seriously trying to
resolve this. I expect to see a bunch of snarky "first world problems"
comments, but its mostly "me too! my many $,$$$ fridge isn't working!"

~~~
jdminhbg
You find people trying to help each other instead of snark at each other
scary?

~~~
daveguy
No. I find it scary that hundreds of people distraught that their refrigerator
isn't connecting to their calendar.

------
ksk
More and more software development is becoming a constant update treadmill
(especially on web/mobile), with companies having no sense of software
reliability or stability. "Move fast and break things".. way to go! /s

------
Keverw
Wow surprised it took them about 3 months to update it... On another note, I
was looking at their smart fridge page and if you click the video thumbnail,
it opens a video and they used music from Audiojungle with the audio watermark
still in it... Guess they didn't bother licensing that track for their ad.
[http://www.samsung.com/us/appliances/refrigerators/RF28HMELB...](http://www.samsung.com/us/appliances/refrigerators/RF28HMELBSR/AA#)

------
wooptoo
This underlines that the level of newly launched and already abandoned
hardware is alarming.

I'm looking at companies like Motorola who almost stopped (if it weren't for a
very vocal user base) updating Moto E about half a year after launching.

And many other phone OEMs who just don't care about updating their software.

Companies came to expect fidelity from customers while providing the minimum
of commitment in return.

OEMs should stop wasting money on crappy addonware and invest in quality (and
timely) software updates, and better customer relationship.

------
tlrobinson
Relevant:
[https://twitter.com/internetofshit](https://twitter.com/internetofshit)

------
jkrp
"Samsung support advised...to restart the refrigerator and check timezone"

------
drvc33
Thanks for this thread. Totally made my day.

Waiting for future slew of news stories regarding "rogue fridges"... some goof
drives by a house, jacks the wifi, compromises the fridge.

------
mikerg87
I think this tells me that web api's and their versions are going to need to
live much, much longer. Far longer than anyone realizes or is currently
planning for.

------
izzydata
Smart refrigerators exist? I don't know why I'm surprised. Even more so that
people rely on said refrigerators for their daily workflow.

------
AndrewKemendo
_Sounds like your fridge needs a software update_

What a time to be alive

------
smegel
If ever there was a headline made for Daring Fireball...

------
vicfcs
did you reboot your refrigerator ? maybe you need a firmware upgrade.

------
andrewvijay
First world problems

~~~
VLM
Usually when people say "first world problem" what they mean is the solution
is cheaply affordable by the first world. They aren't talking about the
problem at all, they're talking about the solution. The point is non-1st world
can't afford the solutions, and they're going to be stuck with this garbage as
used appliances and used cars when the 1st world tosses them out in an
upgrade. That's the real problem.

~~~
jackvalentine
No, when people say 'first world problem' they're referring to a problem that
simply doesn't exist in the third world and only by the virtue of our wealth
we get to experience it.

------
unixhero
Hillarious

------
smoreilly
#firstworldproblems

~~~
erbo
More like #21stcenturyproblems...

------
carterh062
This is the kind of stuff that should be number on HN everyday.

