
Microsoft is embracing Android as the mobile version of Windows - kanishkdudeja
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/3/17933644/microsoft-android-apps-windows-10-app-mirroring-report
======
GeekyBear
Microsoft could extend Android with an open sourced replacement for the
various Google Play Services.

Paying for Microsoft to host a replacement services layer for your app on
Azure would be cheaper than paying Google a 30% cut once you got past a
certain use threshold.

As a bonus you can mitigate Google's decision to walk back Android being open
and simultaneously give people who have decided to un-Google their lives an
alternative to moving to iOS which would risk them moving to a Mac at the same
time.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
This really isn't possible as long as Google has exclusive agreements with
most of the manufacturers. I mean, maybe they could talk Dell and HP into
making Android variants, but there's no way Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc. could
join that party while Google's iron grip remains. And as the other commenter
pointed out, Google will heavily disrupt access to things like Gmail, YouTube,
etc. for people not using "proper" Android phones.

That being said, the option may be available soon, since the EU and Russia
have both fined and prohibited Google's agreements with manufacturers, and the
Department of Justice is rumored to be considering opening an investigation
here in the US.

~~~
bubblethink
Yes, the antitrust ruling could make things very interesting. Samsung would
definitely be interested in replacing various google play bits. They've tried
and failed with tizen. This would give them another shot. Admittedly,
samsung's crap is going to be far worse than google's play services, but in
the long run, it may lead to more cross-compatibility and openness because
devs aren't going to support every reimagination of play services.

~~~
ethbro
As terrible as Java shared development has been, it's at least a plausible
model.

"We give up the ability to monopolize this technology in exchange for creating
an alternative that the marketplace accepts."

------
bubblethink
If MS ends up launching phones based on AOSP like amazon, it could be
interesting. Anything that reduces the near universal dependence on google
play services really. My wishful thinking is that if AOSP ends up getting
forked by 2-3 major players who become somewhat successful, we'll either get
to some open standard for stuff that google play services provide, or webapps
will become good enough that we won't need them.

~~~
techntoke
Except Amazon's replacement sucks pretty hard. They are consistently multiple
versions behind, and you can't even use applications like native YouTube.

~~~
zanny
Of course you can't use Youtube? Its a Google product. Its built ground up to
depend on Play Services.

That being said Youtubes mobile site isn't abysmal and I'm not a fan of how
the last decade saw the open web replaced by proprietary apps. A lot of sites
work fine in a browser on a phone but still push users to use an application
to interact with them.

~~~
techntoke
FireOS on my Kindle Fire is still at Android version 5. Fortunately, I was
able to install Google Play Services so that I didn't have to use the Amazon
AppStore, however multiple profiles doesn't work well on the Kindle Fire.
F-Droid is pretty awesome and the ADB toolset is pretty powerful too. I'd love
to find a wrapper that just uses the core Android tools for management.

------
wvenable
Microsoft should re-start the Android emulation project (the project that
eventually became the Subsystem for Linux in Win10) and make Windows 10 the
ultimate OS that can run anything.

~~~
sureaboutthis
If you want to run Android or Linux, why don't you just run Android and Linux?

~~~
wvenable
Instead of one machine running everything, you want me to run 3 different
machines? It's technically possible to do better than that. One OS that run
anything we want would be amazing.

~~~
m_mueller
This looked to be MacOS for a while, but then came the iPhone...

~~~
_ph_
That is true, though I still think that macOS still is the closest to that and
that is one of the reasons I keep using the Mac. Mac+VMWare is a pretty
flexible setup. I wonder, if anyone has a project going to implement a wayland
server for Metal2? On the other side, the WSL looks very promising, so Windows
is becoming more and more interesting, if one is a Unix guy.

~~~
m_mueller
I‘ve switched from Mac to WSL. You‘re using a lot of integration with GUI
layer and a _lot_ of polish, especially keybinding, tabbing and nice fonts.
But it‘s useable and being able to use Linux package managers instead of
homebrew is a big plus. Also, Thinkpads are so much nicer than current MBP -
best of breed keyboard, all the I/O you need, nice case, 1TB SSD, 24GB Ram,
2300 USD pricepoint, everything else good enough.

~~~
_ph_
I think WSL would quickly become a killer if MS added a Wayland server
integrated in the native Windows UI.

~~~
m_mueller
this is obviously the next step I think.

~~~
int_19h
In the meantime, there are already solutions to running X in WSL that are
almost single-click:

[https://token2shell.com/x410/](https://token2shell.com/x410/)

[https://whitewaterfoundry.com/WLinux/](https://whitewaterfoundry.com/WLinux/)

------
jrs95
Microsoft doesn't need to be pushing their own Android distribution to be
successful here. They're building a very compelling set of software that runs
atop Android on any device, and this can be done while complying with Google's
requirements for having Play services. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft's
existing relationship with Samsung evolves into something where you can buy a
Samsung device through Microsoft that comes preloaded with Microsoft Launcher,
SwiftKey, Cortana, Edge, Office, etc while still including Google Play. They
could also pursue this with other manufacturers or even with their own devices
if they absolutely had to. Microsoft wants to get Android devices integrated
with their services, but they don't need to be the app store in order to do
that. That strategy is doomed to fail as Amazon already proved with Fire
Phone.

~~~
qwerty456127
> Edge

Why would anybody but legacy-encumbered enterprises actually use a web browser
by Microsoft nowadays?

> but they don't need to be the app store

But wouldn't it be good if there were more than one fairly-big and well-
advertised app store? In fact the situation when there is just one seems
worrying, e.g. Apple is already misusing their monopoly on iOS devices
actively.

~~~
Marsymars
> Why would anybody but legacy-encumbered enterprises actually use a web
> browser by Microsoft nowadays?

I expect people have various reasons. Personally, my installs of
FF/Chrome/Vivaldi are locked down in various ways to not accepts
cookies/scripts, so I use Edge for sites that break in my other browsers that
I don't need to access often enough to bother whitelisting. Same way I use
Safari on macOS.

~~~
qwerty456127
You don't have to disable cookies, there is Vanilla Cookie Manager to delete
cookies set by any but whitelisted sites as you close them. You can also use
incognito mode (which starts with no extensions enabled by default) - I use it
when I have to view a site that gets broken by my ad-blocking and privacy-
enforcing extensions set-up. And there actually are so many Chrome-based sites
you can always install one more if the number you already have is not enough
and you don't like Chrome's built-in user switching. MS browsers have a long
history of being not just outdated from the compatibility point of view but
also vulnerable to malware so I personally wouldn't trust them. I would
actually love to learn there is a real (using a different engine) alternative
browser but I feel skeptic about Microsoft building one.

------
bni
Its ironic, since Java and Linux used to be the absolute kryptonite for
Microsoft in the 00's

~~~
sureshv
The change from Windows server licenses to the cloud (Azure) forced this upon
Microsoft.

~~~
techntoke
And a majority of Azure runs on Linux, and the major selling points for
Windows now is it runs Linux and works with Kubernetes/Docker. Containers
still run poorly compared to Linux though and mounting volumes is mostly
broken from anything but PowerShell.

~~~
wallstop
Do you have a source for the majority of of azure running on Linux? Would be
very interested to see this.

~~~
crb
[https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/linux-now-
dominates...](https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/linux-now-dominates-
azure/)

"Today, Scott Guthrie, Microsoft's executive vice president of the cloud and
enterprise group, said in an interview, "it's about half now, but it varies on
the day because a lot of these workloads are elastic, but sometimes slightly
over half of Azure VMs are Linux." Microsoft later clarified, "about half
Azure VMs are Linux.""

~~~
philliphaydon
So Linux running on Azure, not Azure running on Linux?

------
paulcarroty
Cool, don't forged about forced updates, telemetry and the "new version of OS
- new device principle"; and M$ will repeat their Windows Phone success!

------
Tiki
scrcpy :
[https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy](https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy)

This application provides display and control of Android devices connected on
USB (or over TCP/IP). It does not require any root access. It works on
GNU/Linux, Windows and MacOS.

Did Microsoft have a choice?

[https://www.statista.com/statistics/266136/global-market-
sha...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/266136/global-market-share-held-
by-smartphone-operating-systems/)

~~~
jraph
This app is amazing. I find myself replying to texts with this quite often. It
works well on wifi too :-)

------
kuwze
First of all, Microsoft gets a cut of every Android phone sold[0].

Secondly, does anyone know why Microsoft quit competing when it came to
mobile? It seems something so odd that future history books are going to point
it out. I mean I really don't get it. Unless if they are planning to ramp up
and go whole hog on Continuum and they don't want to worry about supporting
older phones, which this lull allows them to do.

[0]: [https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-is-making-2bn-a-
year...](https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-is-making-2bn-a-year-on-
android-licensing-five-times-more-than-windows-phone/)

~~~
why_only_15
The article doesn't explain why the OEMs give Microsoft a cut- do you know
why?

~~~
deergomoo
FAT32 royalties. I would assume this does not apply to Android phones without
an SD slot though.

~~~
int_19h
Not FAT32, exFAT.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT)

------
p0nce
Here is some hope they extend it.

~~~
tylerjwilk00
And we know what happens after that. [1]

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extingu...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish)

~~~
Analemma_
This is not Slashdot circa 2004, posting “OMG, EEE!” is not a substantive
reply and for years hasn’t reflected how contemporary Microsoft does business.
It’s just a cheap grab for upvotes with no thinking behind it. Please explain
how Microsoft is going to EEE Android, which is run by an equally large and
influential company and runs on way more devices than Windows does, or
consider removing this comment if you can’t.

~~~
jf-
Google are an incredibly sinister privately run surveillance system, and are
pushing AMP to EEE the web, but you know, MS are still the bad guys, because
we’re stuck in 2003.

~~~
c487bd62
> because we’re stuck in 2003

It's called learning a lesson (repeatedly). Don't trust Google. And don't
trust Microsoft, now or in 2003. Don't trust companies, period. Always have an
exit plan and try not to get locked inside their boxes if possible. These
companies exist to make money, so power and control is what they want. That
doesn't mean we can't appreciate good products or initiatives, just keep in
mind that the boot and the giving hand belong to the same entity.

------
ognarb
Similar to the integration of a linux desktop with kde connect.

------
everyone
Does this mean they'll finally stop trying to foist the 'metro' blight onto
desktop?

I have a feeling they will double down and it will now be an Android blight

~~~
wildrhythms
'Metro' is the only design concept Microsoft has come up with in the last
decade.

~~~
everyone
Y'know Windows 10 has loads of great little improvements say on Windows 2000..
You only really notice them when u try to use an old machine running 2000 or
XP or whatever and theyre not there..

Examples..

can cut/copy and paste files mutiples times and it will queue them up..

When copying files it shows progress + graphs the speed.

Right click on windows button to get list of loads of common management tools
(that b4 u had to dig down to in various weird places)

Alt-tab shows little thumbnail of each program running.

thumbnails of image files and whatnot in explorer

loads of option in the explorer GUI for searching and displaying files

powershell

drag window to side to have it take up half the screen

etc. etc.

These are all great useful and non intrusive design ideas. Thats good design.
And I reckon they came about from more grassroots action, eg. customer
feedback or boots on the ground engineers.

'Design concepts' like Metro are the kind of shit that marketing or upper
management come up with as part of some dubious business or marketing scheme,
and then are awkwardly and irritatingly foisted upon the engineers and users
alike. That kind of BS is utterly regressive.

~~~
wildrhythms
Oh yes, I think Microsoft made incredible strides in the UI/desktop design
front from 98 to XP and even on Windows 7 (2009). Windows Phone and Windows 8
introduced Metro to the world, and Microsoft seems to have plateaued there.

~~~
everyone
There are still nice little features like that in 10 from 8.1.. Thankfully the
Metro stuff u can all be eliminated with some registry scripts, without
affecting anything else, and u now have a nice OS. Just doing it every time I
install Windows is a big annoyance.

------
ourmandave
MS already makes billions every year on hundreds of existing Android patents.

I hope they can give themselves a price break.

~~~
dcgudeman
Billions? I a source for that would be nice.

~~~
ourmandave
This is from 2014 and says they make about $2B per year.

[https://www.zdnet.com/article/310-microsoft-patents-used-
in-...](https://www.zdnet.com/article/310-microsoft-patents-used-in-android-
licensing-agreements-revealed-by-chinese-gov/)

But later reports suggest they're making a lot less now.

------
godelmachine
At a time when Google is going to disown Android.

------
epx
Linux should have embraced Android as its GUI, as well.

~~~
jrs95
Android doesn't really have much similarity to Linux beyond the kernel so this
doesn't make much sense. They are 2 quite different userland operating
systems.

------
macbroadcast
...and Google plans to replace Android with
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Fuchsia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Fuchsia)
OS in the future, does that makes any sense for Micro$oft, whats their plan?

~~~
monocasa
Does google actually plan to do replace android with that, or is it a "you've
burnt out on what we hired you for, but letting you leave would give our
competitors a leg up so do whatever you want" project? It really feels like
the latter.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
It's a platform for IoT devices. Whether it ends up in consumer handhelds
remains to be seen.

~~~
jasonvorhe
No, it's not. It's already booting into a desktop like UI on the Pixelbook and
they've even ported parts of Chrome to it.

It's more like some universal OS for Google products that'll probably be ready
for launch in 2-3 years or so. Sure, IoT may be one of the goals of Fuchsia,
but I'm sure it's meant for future phones as a step by step replacement for
Android and future Chromebooks, probably starting with Pixel devices or
whatever they'll rebrand to next year.

~~~
ethbro
Everyone knew Android made technical compromises for market share (eg security
model).

It remains to be seen whether business (legacy Android) or technical (new
system arch) will win out at Google.

------
droopybuns
Friday nonsense. I can’t conceive that MS would yet again hitch themselves to
a failing os.

If you want to make money in mobile, you have to prioritize iOS.

~~~
oblio
Android’s global market share is 80% and climbing. Android phones are moving
up in the market, with many luxury models. Few people switch ecosystems after
1 year or so and guess what will happen when the poor Indian or Chinese dude
who used to use Android Cheapo will get a decent job that will allow him to
buy a $500+ phone? Only a small percentage of those will get iPhones, most
will get Samsungs or high end Huaweis.

