
Boeing 737 Passenger Jet Damaged in Possible Midair Drone Hit - Animats
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-13/aeromexico-737-jetliner-damaged-in-possible-midair-drone-strike
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ken
Unless they found pieces of bird or drone, I don't understand why there's
speculation yet either way.

At jet speeds, you don't need a man-made object to explain a huge hole. Here's
an example of a bird strike in a 737: [https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-
troubles/97238940/mass...](https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-
troubles/97238940/massive-damage-to-boeing-737-after-bird-strikes)

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amelius
I wonder what is behind that damaged section of the plane. Passenger seats?

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46Bit
That damaged section is called the nosecone; there's a weather radar behind
it.

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dsl
The Academy of Model Aeronautics has done some amazing research on pilot
interactions with drones using FAA data [1].

One of the things they found was that only 3% of drone reports from pilots are
actual "close calls", the rest are observations of drones operating legally
below 400 ft or cases where done is used as a catch all term (weather baloons,
etc).

Another interesting thing I read from them (my bookmark is 404ing now, will
try to find the link), is that of the actual incidents they investigated of
drones acting recklessly in controlled airspace, all of the offending drones
were operated by the military or DHS.

1\.
[https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/UASSightin...](https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/UASSightingsAnalysisbyAMA5-10-17.pdf)

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simon_acca
The pilots did not specifically witness a drone, just a lack of birds:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fts9u5ND24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fts9u5ND24)

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gesman
Front shot of the dent shows no signs of small/sharp sub-dents or deep
scratches within the main dent that would've been caused by hard object such
as drone. Which kind of steers thinking toward heavy and soft object that
planed collided with.

"Is goose going to be okay?"

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delinka
"... can’t be tracked on radar ..."

Can I voluntarily strap a transponder to my own drone if I buy one? How small
can transponders be?

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shittyadmin
Looks like tiny ADS-B transponders are readily available:
[https://uavionix.com/](https://uavionix.com/)

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westbywest
Measures 3x9x11cm, so likely too bulky for many drones.

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shittyadmin
Check these ones out, they're the ones designed for drones:

[https://uavionix.com/products/ping2020/](https://uavionix.com/products/ping2020/)

20g, 25mm x 39mm x 12mm

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dcroley
Which has more mass, a goose or a drone? My bet is on the goose.

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dotancohen
Which has more mass, a pigeon or a 5.56? Which would you rather have bump into
you at it's typical flight velocity?

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dcroley
are you trying to suggest a drone is flies significantly faster than a goose?

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ddecola
This was at the Tijuana airport which is right next to the US border. While
drones have been know to be used to smuggle contraband across the border,
looking at this flight path for landing [1], the plane actually circles around
over the US and then back into Mexico. It's possibly that the the strike
occurred in US airspace. _yikes_

Note: I'm not certain that this is the flight in question. The other approach
is solely in Mexico airspace. I'm also not trying to rope in drones/contraband
to an already unclear situation.

[1]
[https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AMX770/history/20181213/...](https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AMX770/history/20181213/1240Z/MMGL/MMTJ)

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garysahota93
Could someone correct me if I'm wrong: but I assume this is why we have
altitude restrictions on consumer drones, right? Other than the technological
challenges of going that high up, but it's also so we don't become burdensome
on the air traffic.

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btilly
Do not overestimate the technological challenges of going high up. An
autonomous drone that can work at all in Denver, must also be able to operate
at a mile high in Los Angeles.

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ryanmercer
I just want to throw out there that you're not wrong but keep in mind that
there's a pretty big difference between operating 100ft off the ground in
Denver and operating 1 mile above Los Angeles.

Know why?

You need enough battery/fuel to climb 0.99 miles minus 435ft in L.A. (and
presumably safely descend) through progressively thinner atmosphere, in Denver
you need need enough battery/fuel to climb 100 ft in thinner atmosphere.

The amount of planes flying 100ft above the terrain is considerably less than
those that are operating between 100ft and 0.99 miles above the terrain.

~~~
btilly
There are good reasons that I said "autonomous" and "operate" as qualifiers.
Both direct control from the ground and getting a mile high are potential
additional challenges in Los Angeles.

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amelius
Perhaps we should install the equivalent of dashcams into airplanes ...

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ddalex
Something a bit more complicated than a dashcam, something that record all the
sensors data and all the inputs as they are applied... maybe also the cockpit
conversations....

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ryanmercer
And we could make it really bright orange and boxy!

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dotancohen
And call it "black"!

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TheSpiceIsLife
If this were an drone should we expect burns? It seems feasible for a small
lithium ion battery to be damaged by an such an impact. If a damaged lithium
ion battery got stuck in the nose cone things could get dramatically worse
dramatically quickly.

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Animats
Look at the picture. Something punched a sizable hole in the nose. That plane
hit something much harder than a bird.

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chrisseaton
> That plane hit something much harder than a bird.

Something like a drone? That's what the article says. It's even what the
headline says.

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jandrese
Must have been a big ass drone. That's a huge hole.

That said, the headline is speculation. All we know is that the pilots heard a
loud bang and there is a hole in the nose. It might be a drone or it might be
something else.

~~~
craftyguy
> Must have been a big ass drone. That's a huge hole.

Small things at (relative) high velocity make big holes. It's physics.

~~~
jandrese
This is theoretically the entry hole though, it typically does not get larger
with velocity.

When you see bullet impacts on a target the entry hole is typically bullet
size while the exit hole can be much larger.

I'm not saying I'd expect the perfect outline of a drone like on a cartoon,
but the hole should be roughly the size of whatever hit it unless something
subsequently exploded inside or collapsed the support structure and allowed
the airflow to further damage the skin.

~~~
craftyguy
It does, but to a point (as you pointed out), but no commercial plane is going
to hit a bird as fast as a bullet impacting a target. Aircraft skin is
relatively thin and easy to tear, and may fragment leaving a much larger hole
than the object that hit it.[0][1][2]

0\. [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/Bird-strike-rips-
blo...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/Bird-strike-rips-bloody-hole-
in-plane/)

1\. [https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/bird-bash-
leaves-g...](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/bird-bash-leaves-
gaping-hole-united-737-landing-denver-article-1.1126446)

2\.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-34900...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3490044/Shocking-
photos-plane-left-huge-hole-nose-cone-bird-strike-landing-Heathrow-
Airport.html)

