
Ask HN: How do you deal with your frustrations around a project and management? - danielovichdk
On a project, where things are not like you want them to be, and you continously encounter code which is not tested, implemented by a &quot;spec&quot; and whatnot.<p>Where you feel like no one else speaks up around challenges and the same constant issues that doesn&#x27;t seem to get resolved.<p>I can&#x27;t help myself and speak up about these frustrations and people not really wanting to adopt a positive change.<p>Thanks
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DoreenMichele
When I had a corporate job, one of the managers always said "Bring solutions,
not complaints." I have generally found that approach to be a good practice.

Venting about your frustrations amounts to adding burdens to the system. They
are probably also frustrated, and now you are making your feelings their
problem. Better to deal with your frustrations on your own and not bring it up
until you have something constructive to say.

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streptomycin
I have similar problems. Here's my advice:

Do the best you can. At least your code can be done the right way.

If management forces you to not do things the right way, then when it blows
up, it's their fault, not your fault. In that case, you need to
compartmentalize. Your job is not your life. The shitty code you get paid to
work on does not define your talent or your worth as an engineer. If you do
your best to fix it but nobody cares and you just get beaten down... that is
not your fault! Don't stress out about it.

If you struggle to compartmentalize, that's okay. Some people are better at it
than others. But in that case, you might want to start looking for other work.

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kejaed
I try to follow "be the change you want to see" and bit by bit try to nudge
the project in the right way. Start testing more code, speak with people about
the issues that don't get resolved.

There may be reasons that haven't been communicated as to why issues haven't
been resolved that fill in a bit more of the picture. At the end of the day
though, I think it's the owners company and the PM's project. When that
doesn't work any more, it's time to start looking for something new.

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borplk
I'm sure people will have a bunch of feel-good suggestions here.

Want a good dose of reality from my perspective?

I'd say suck it up, then move on somewhere else and hope that it will be
better.

I don't mean be silent either. But don't try too hard to fix things or be the
voice of reason and things like that.

Very very few cases like that see tangible change from the inside.

There are often much deeper rooted systematic problems present. And in many
cases there's no interest in willingness to "fix" any of those problems in the
first place.

They may express interest in the _outcome_ of the fixes (better stability,
etc). But ... well you will find somehow there's never enough time to actually
invest in achieving those outcomes.

Without knowing more about your case I can't be more specific.

But just remind yourself, things don't just snap into existence out of thin
air.

If things have been like that where you are for a while, chances are it's
going to stay that way for a while longer too.

The current state of an environment is somewhat representative of what has
been encouraged, rewarded, discouraged and punished there.

You may be tempted to be the hero that makes things right. You are probably
one just like the many that came before you and are long gone.

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flukus
So many hard truths in one post, the only bit I disagree with is this:

> I'd say suck it up, then move on somewhere else and hope that it will be
> better.

IME the next place is likely to be not much different and you can quickly be
labelled a job hopper, which becomes self reinforcing if all you can pick up
are short term contracts.

> They may express interest in the outcome of the fixes (better stability,
> etc). But ... well you will find somehow there's never enough time to
> actually invest in achieving those outcome

This nails it. Everyone says they care about quality for instance, but few are
willing to invest the time/money that it takes to produce high quality (or
even decent quality) software. Organisations need to be judged on actions not
words, if there is a constant pipeline of features to add but no time allotted
to refactoring then they don't care about quality.

As for personal advice for anyone in this situation, mine is to learn not to
care, detach yourself from your work, it's been a boon to my mental health
over the last few years. The company releases a turd? I no longer give it a
second thought, if they didn't want a turd then they would put the right
structures in place to prevent turds, but if they don't care then why should
I?

Another one is to put some distance between my side projects and work, in the
past they've always been somewhat work related, often experimenting with tech
that is directly applicable to the company I was working for. I find I'm
happier when my side projects are completely different technology stacks.

~~~
borplk
> IME the next place is likely to be not much different and you can quickly be
> labelled a job hopper

I guess the suck it up part means staying long enough to avoid that.

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chrisbennet
I don’t think I’ve ever been in that situation but if I was, I would just go
someplace else. Life is _extremely_ brief and there are lots of other
companies that aren’t messed up. If you are a developer, and you aren’t
looking forward to going to work in the morning, think strongly about changing
your employer.

