
Sugar Molecule Links Red Meat Consumption and Elevated Cancer Risk in Mice - spankalee
http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-12-29-sugar-molecule-in-red-meat-linked-to-cancer.aspx
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kumarski
Articles like this drive panic and speculation among those who don't have
enough scientific competency to ascertain the significance of differences
between mice and men.(humans)

[https://www.quora.com/What-are-examples-of-drugs-that-
showed...](https://www.quora.com/What-are-examples-of-drugs-that-showed-
promising-results-in-clinical-lab-animal-trials-and-failed-miserably-in-human-
trials)

The problem with the word 'cancer' and 'consumption' in biology is that it is
a combinatorially complex issue.

There are many different types of cancer and many more types of gut bacteria
for 'consumption.' [https://www.quora.com/How-many-types-of-gut-bacteria-
exist-i...](https://www.quora.com/How-many-types-of-gut-bacteria-exist-in-our-
digestive-system)

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blacksmith_tb
Except these mice were knockouts for Neu5Gc, making them much more like us,
for purposes of this study. Also, humans and mice are both omnivorous mammals,
so not radically different with regards to diet, potentially (squeak).

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kumarski
Correlation, not causation.

With 500-1000 identified/unidentified species of gut bacteria floating around,
mimicking one is a bad data set.

Corollary example, we've not proved that H.Pylori causes Ulcerative Colitis,
yet they coexist frequently.

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jimrandomh
This is not a study, this is a press release based on a study. Always, always,
always go to the actual study.

The actual study is
[http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/12/25/1417508112.abst...](http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/12/25/1417508112.abstract)
and it is paywalled. The main thing that jumps out about it, is that it is not
just a dietary intervention; they also injected the mice with antibodies to
Neu5Gc, supposedly to reproduce the levels found in the human immune system.
Bad things happened only to those mice who were both fed Neu5Gc (at a
concentration an order of magnitude higher than humans would encounter) and
also gave them these antibodies. While this looks potentially promising, the
human immunology would need to be studied, and what the effect size would be
for a more typical diet is completely unknown.

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ryanobjc
There's been a lot of research and people interested in grass-fed beef. I'd
love to learn more about the results of this study compared to the discoveries
about grass-fed beef, omega 3 and the omega 3/6 balance stuff.

On one hand you have people like this study, which did a small 1 time study
indicating that there is an inflammatory effect in mice. On the other hand,
you have people like Dave Asprey who have spent years testing the 'grass fed
beef is less inflammatory' hypothesis in humans. One of these has a stronger
indication to my own health than the others.

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dnautics
"Neu5Gc accumulated in the tumors."

I'm not sure that that makes sense from a biological perspective, for many
reasons. Neu5Gc itself is not terribly likely to be carcinogenic, its mode of
action is to enervate the immune system. If anything, accumulation of Neu5Gc
in tumors should mitigate cancer by triggering antibody-directed cell-mediated
cytotoxicity.

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pm90
I like the fact that the there is an explicit disclosure at the end.

Also this: “Of course, moderate amounts of red meat can be a source of good
nutrition for young people. We hope that our work will eventually lead the way
to practical solutions for this catch-22.”

I think this is important. What amount of red meat is OK to consume? Its
really hard to get people to stop eating what they've developed a taste for.
But limitation would be a much more achievable strategy.

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csdrane
Serious question: is there any reason to think that mice would be a good proxy
for human health results re: meat consumption?

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jonnathanson
Mice are far from perfect proxies for humans, but when it comes to dietary and
nutrition studies, they are surprisingly good matches. Others have pointed out
the cost/quantity/ease advantages of working with mice. Another big advantage
is that some mice (and many rats) are opportunistic omnivores, like humans. As
such, their digestive systems have evolved to be reasonably similar to ours.
(Key word here being "reasonably").

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csdrane
That makes sense. Thanks.

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CamperBob2
Let me know when you guys figure out whether or not salt is bad for me.

