

Review My App: Zen - nkohari

We just launched Zen, a lightweight, web-based project management tool geared towards startups and small teams that are interested in adopting a lean mindset. We've been in private beta for awhile now, but just opened to the public this morning.<p>Check it out and let us know what you think! I'm interested in any and all feedback.<p>http://agilezen.com/?r=hn
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lanaer
Signed up for a free account: the hint display blocks the bottom part of the
add-story sidebar, which makes things more difficult to work with.

A way to get hints back after hiding them would be useful, too. Or some sort
of way to summon contextual help. After hiding the hint to get it out of my
way, I found I didn’t know what “Size” meant, and wasn’t immediately sure of
where to look.

By the way, I’m currently using pivotal tracker (which has the nice advantage
of being free, for some reason), so that’s my baseline for comparison.

Minor annoyance: the names next to the « or » should be clickable also, the «»
are too small as click targets, so dismissing a sidebar requires more care
than it should.

Pivotal gives you an ability to assign FPs to estimate stories, while Zen
strongly encourages that you try to make your stories equally sized. I think I
like your approach better, since I know I tend to avoid large stories — I need
to break it down first before I can work on it without being frightened of it.

There seems to be a bug with trying to edit a story owner while the backlog is
open (maybe applies to other sidebars as well, didn’t check). When I click the
name, it disappears, then if I close the sidebar, the form shows up. If I
click on multiple stories while the bar is open, I only get the form on one of
them, and have to refresh the page to see the owners again. This is in Safari
4, didn’t check other browsers.

It would be nice if stories could be left unassigned in the backlog (perhaps
this is meant to be possible, but is buggy? I can’t tell due to bug in above
paragraph). Actually, I’d be happiest if stories added to the backlog
defaulted to unassigned.

It took me too long to figure out how to reach the focus view, since you have
to hover over the # (which I didn’t realize was clickable), and it is small.
Feels like there should be an easier way, though I don’t have a suggestion at
the moment.

Focus view of a story seems less-nice than the rest of the app. Too cluttered.
Oh wait, if I hide the hint, it looks much nicer. I want to be able to widen
the sidebar in focus view to have the values line up with the headings, making
it shorter to get rid of the scrollbar I have there at my current window
height (just a _little_ bit too short).

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Above was comments while I was playing with the app, hopefully it’s organized
enough, because I’m too lazy to go back and review.

I think I like your approach more than Pivotal Tracker. Cleaner, and more
pleasant, although you need to work _really_ hard to address each and every
interface quirk (a couple of which I mentioned above), since the primary
appeal of your app is that it has a clean and fluid interface.

Customizable process (without a cluttered interface to manage it!) is a win.
The way it is setup should help discourage people from having too many steps
in the process, as well, since then the board would become unusable.

My 2 main sticking points:

1\. Pivotal is free (again, I have no idea why. They should be taking my money
right now)

2\. I am unsure about the lack of time estimation (Pivotal provides, I think,
the best method I’ve seen of time estimates, if you’re going to have them).
Maybe it’s better to not have? I’m not sure.

Anyway, I have a project I’m just starting, with 1 other person. Will have to
see if Zen tempts me enough to pay the $9 I’d need ;)

Some closing random thoughts:

1\. Put a mini version of your logo to the left of Features (without moving
Features to the right) in the nav bar, on every page except the home page. Or
something along those lines. We really do look in the top-left to get back to
the home page.

2\. … just the 1 thought I guess. I had another, but I lost it.

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scott_s
Using the phrase "crush the competition" seems to go against the rest of your
site - calling the product "Zen," the bonsai tree, and the logo. At the least,
it's a jarring contrast that distracts me from your product.

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midnightmonster
Pretty sure the contrast is on purpose, for humorous effect. It's just not
very funny.

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tdoggette
I actually thought it was great copy. It communicates the benefits of the
product, then makes it more likable and _memorable_.

I also thought it was funny.

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davidcann
Some full size screenshots would be good to have on the Tour page rather than
the current lengthy text descriptions. After skimming through the whole tour,
I still don't have a sense of whether or not your app is better than Basecamp.

~~~
mlapeter
I completely agree with this, that's the first thing I thought. I immediately
search for a sample site or demo account that's a lot quicker for me than
reading all that text. Or if not a demo at least a concise screencast.

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vermontdevil
Small recommendation - add a home link at the top navigation bar when you are
at sub pages. Helps people go back to the home page if necessary.

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mattyb
Well you can click the logo on the right to get back home. But I agree; I
reflexively looked at the top left for their logo.

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wheels
On the landing page the headers don't actually say much – the real lines are
underneath, which I didn't read while skimming. Instead of:

"Enhances visibility and communication" -> "Make it easy to understand the
status of your project at a glance"

"Simple and flexible" doesn't really have any meat in it. See Kawasaki's
opposite rule – your competition doesn't describe their product as
"Complicated and rigid."

"Easy to get started" -> "Get started in seconds"

Specific claims add a lot more punch and right now they're ousted from
prominent positioning by phrases that don't say much.

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mhartl
_See Kawasaki's opposite rule_

Do you have a reference for this? As of this writing, the first Google hit for
"Kawasaki's opposite rule" is the parent comment. :-)

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wheels
Sorry, "opposite test" was the google-able phrase.

" _Apply the opposite test._ How many times have you read a product
description like this? “Our software is scalable, secure, easy-to-use, and
fast?” Companies use these adjectives as if no other company claims its
product is scalable, secure, easy-to-use, and fast. See if your competition
uses the antonyms of the adjectives that you use to describe your product. If
it doesn't, your description is useless. For example, I've never seen a
company say that its product was limited, full of leaks, hard-to-use, and
slow."

<http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006/01/the_art_of_bran.html>

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mhartl
Thanks!

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richesh
Clickable link: <http://agilezen.com/>

~~~
mattyb
Link that nkohari would probably rather you click:

<http://agilezen.com/?r=hn>

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Encosia
You should combine your JavaScript.

Also, the querystring timestamps break caching in some proxies. It's a bit of
a pain, but it's best to integrate the timestamp into the filename.

~~~
nkohari
Yeah, there are definitely opportunities for performance tweaks. I left it as-
is until I can integrate it into our build process.

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aneesh
The UI is really clean, and the workflow seems pretty straighforward. Great
job!

The "Add Story" sidebar doesn't render properly for me when hints are enabled
(FF 3.5, Windows 7). The submit button is hidden behind the hint bar -- maybe
the sidebar could be shorter so it's not covered by the hint.

~~~
nkohari
Thanks... and yeah, several others have said that as well. The hint panel was
meant to be an overlay, but it does tend to get in the way. I'll have to tweak
it. :)

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stuff4ben
What is Kanban? Was that the original name? I ask because it's on all of your
page titles.

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nkohari
Kanban just means "visual card" or "sign", but it's a name for a technique
used in lean software practices. (Specifically, the board display in Zen is
called a "kanban board".) It comes from the JIT inventory system of the Toyota
Production System.

More info: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_software_development>

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darkxanthos
Found and reported a bug on the work tab. Also, what is the purpose of the
sizing field? Can I do anything with that or is it just a generic label for my
own uses?

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nkohari
Yeah, several people have mentioned the bug. I'm working to fix it now,
although I probably won't push again until after EOB today. The size field is
free-form... most people use it either with "t-shirt sizing" (small, medium,
large) or just put a numeric value in. Eventually it will be used in
performance metrics, so you can see your cycle time for "large" stories, for
example.

~~~
darkxanthos
Awesome thanks! Also, if I mark a task as blocked and then throw it in the
backlog the task is no longer red.

Am I just doing it wrong or is this a bug?

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nkohari
That's actually as-designed. If you block a story, it means you can't move
it... so if you move it, the app figures you fixed what was wrong. :)

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darkxanthos
Also, if you type in the blocked description and then click in that same
description field it erases your text. :( I lost stuff. It's best for me if it
just highlighted all text. I'm using Chrome.

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edw519
Your "Company" page sends mixed signals. On one hand, you've obviously poured
your hearts and souls into this, a big plus. OTOH, a husband and wife
appearing as "President & Chief Technical Officer" and "Director of
Operations" just seems a little weird to me.

This page could work for a team of 4 or 5 people with impressive backgrounds
and interchangable skills, but it just shows your underwear. What if something
happens to him? What if something happens to her? What if something happens to
"them"?

In a strange way, the Company page is a lot like a butcher shop. We all know
that, on the internet, a small company can look like a big company, but we
really don't want to _see_ what goes on behind the scenes.

Is there some way you can display your strengths on this page without
revealing your weaknesses?

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Husafan
I would love the ability to designate parent/child relationships between
stories.

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mvbma
how is this different from basecamp?

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richesh
can't get to it

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zackattack
Where's your feature list? I want to know if there's to-do, task assignment,
email notification, time tracking, and a Wiki. :)

I would cut down with the japanese/zen "motif." This isn't a Las vegas casino,
it's a web app. I don't want the joy of slowly unraveling your Internet
Mystery, I want an obvious and functional and minimalist (zen!) application
that Gets Things Done.

I like your color scheme

