

Unbelievable: The IDF Has Gamified Its War Blog - rottencupcakes
http://readwrite.com/2012/11/15/unbelievable-the-idf-has-gamified-its-war-blog

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fafner
How is this a gamification of war? Reading a blog is not war. Social media is
not war. Getting a virtual badge for reading a blog has nothing to do with the
morals of war. Does the author realise that people get real badges in war for
... you know ... killing other people! Not for retweeting some 140 character
long message.

Propaganda is nothing new and propaganda was always quick to adopt to new
media. Get over yourself...

~~~
fleitz
It is not badges that honor men, it is men that honor badges.

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revelation
This is only gamification if you believe this is a war being fought on social
media. Of course, if you believe that, you should quickly rush out of your
filter bubble.

War always included propaganda for the home front. Back then it was ridiculous
posters, nowadays it of course happens in social media.

~~~
genwin
In between posters and social media it was "Support the Troops" yellow ribbon
bumper stickers.

~~~
twoodfin
If you're going to call those "propaganda", could you please suggest another
term we can use so people know we're talking about things like _Triumph of the
Will_ and not anodyne bumper stickers?

~~~
jellicle
If you don't understand that Triumph of the Will and the yellow bumper ribbons
are the exact same thing, you're not understanding propaganda.

It's always more difficult to examine something you're inside (yellow ribbons)
than something you're outside (Nazi war movies). But they're identical. And in
fact the modern PR industry was founded to sell World War I to the American
public.

~~~
twoodfin
_If you don't understand that Triumph of the Will and the yellow bumper
ribbons are the exact same thing, you're not understanding propaganda._

Uh huh. Glorifying Hitler and the Nazis in a government comissioned film is
"the exact same thing" as privately expressing support for our volunteer
military in a hard situation. They're "identical", even!

Do you ever stop and think about the claims you're making? Are pink ribbons
propaganda? How about the Jesus fish? The Darwin fish? A "make love not war"
bumper sticker? How is private viewpoint A propaganda, while private viewpoint
!A isn't? If you want to call every politically clever expression of a
viewpoint "propaganda", you've robbed the term of its important, useful
meaning.

~~~
genwin
Pink ribbons are advertising to gain money for a private organization (whether
or not they do anything to help cancer victims). The Jesus fish is also
advertising, promoted by private orgs looking to gain money & power. The
Darwin fish is a private viewpoint. "Support the Troops" is propaganda,
"Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or
publicize a particular political cause or point of view." It's promoted by
neocons or hawks or whatever you call them, who are seeking money and power
via war.

From Wikipedia: Political analyst Noam Chomsky has criticized the slogan,
saying, "[...] the point of public relations slogans like "Support Our Troops"
is that they don't mean anything [...] that's the whole point of good
propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is going to be against and
I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because
it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your
attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy?
And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about."

~~~
twoodfin
_But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that
does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not
allowed to talk about._

And this is why Chomsky is the idol of nodding undergraduates everywhere.

Not to put too fine a point on it, it's _bonkers_ to say you're "not allowed"
to debate war policy. That claim is a _lie_. It's readily disproven by reading
any of a number of _New York Times_ editorials or walking down any street in
Berkeley, CA, or Cambridge, MA and reading the bumper stickers.

Yes, "I support the troops" is not a particularly daring or radical point of
view. But it's clear from a Google search for "I don't support the troops"
that there's a vocal minority who disagree with it. There was a time not so
many decades ago when a much larger, much more vocal minority disagreed with
it, and thus it's not quite the nullity that Chomsky describes it as.

In a free society, one opinion people are "allowed" to have is that their
volunteer troops by and large deserve moral and material support even if their
missions have politically controversial justification. That is an opinion a
large majority of Americans currently hold. Some Americans hold an opposing
view. In a democracy, this kind of disagreement happens often, and trying to
convince me that one side of the disagreement has been influenced _in the
"exact" manner as the Nazis influenced the Germans_ requires a better argument
than Chomsky's goofy proclamation that somehow we're "not allowed to talk
about" war policy. Germans in 1942 were _actually_ not allowed to disparage
the war effort, lest they end up in prison or worse. Their primary sources of
information on the conflict were all directly controlled by their government,
who deliberately, actively misled them about its aims and progress. That is so
many _light years_ from a "yellow ribbon" campaign that I still can't begin to
imagine how you think they're comparable.

~~~
genwin
Good points. I don't say they're the exact same thing, like jellicle does, but
I do think they're both propaganda, and for the same result: to make a few
people richer and more powerful, via war.

You're right that Americans could disparage the recent war efforts, but if you
were doing that to someone with that yellow sticker, you were (in my
experience) talking to someone who supported the troops by supporting the war.
I'm confident that was the intent of the yellow ribbon.

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tangue
While artillery rounds are falling, while rockets are raining, while drones
are killing daily around the globe, a blogger finds out what's wrong with war
: gamification. I hope to hear him talk about it on a tech-conference soon.

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radagaisus
The game has been up on the IDF website since July.

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rootedbox
_shrug_ The U.S. has gamified it's wars.. [http://www.globatron.org/wp-
content/uploads/2011/04/UAV_cock...](http://www.globatron.org/wp-
content/uploads/2011/04/UAV_cockpit1.jpg)

That being said.. So is every other modern military.

~~~
mey
The US military has a longer history with video games then that.
www.americasarmy.com

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matthewowen
I find it hard to be surprised by anything that the IDF does.

~~~
yozmsn
But you'll play call of duty and Battlefield 1942, or better yet mow down
civilians in GTA?

~~~
matthewowen
No. I don't. But even if I did, your 'point' would be irrelevant.

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olliesaunders
Is this really the author's biggest objection to war? Really? I'm not
surprised by this development. War is about winning. Props to gamification--
really pointsification--for having gained enough traction to be used in this
context. War still blows though.

~~~
rdtsc
Supply a web feed to remotely control sniper robots and you can eat you
popcorn and snipe Palestinian kids and get badges for it. Go all the way,
right, was is about winning after all...

~~~
yozmsn
I'd play that game. /s

But seriously this is pretty cool, who new that a government agency had good
programmers? I was very impressed with the polish of the tool while I was on
the site, it felt very Hipster, could've been made by zynga or VLAMBEER or
HalfBot. IMPRESSED!

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gwillen
War has always been gamified.

[http://www.warhistoryfans.com/victory-tallies-enemy-flags-
or...](http://www.warhistoryfans.com/victory-tallies-enemy-flags-or-symbols-
on-planes-and-ships-167222.html)

~~~
anigbrowl
Not really the same thing. I think this is atrocious, but given that it's a
current event and involves countries that tend to arouse people's atavistic
passions, an in-depth discussion is probably not on the cards.

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nekojima
This could be a helpful way for the IDF to track Hamas and other Palestinian
users and to see what they are most interested in reading about. Either as a
way to target them electronically, or by other means (covertly for
exploitation or recruitment, not by missiles).

Also might be humourous to know how many Hamas operatives or supporters have
reached IDF "Research Officer" rank too.

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olgeni
This stuff looks a bit like the "Megaphone desktop tool" of some years ago.

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jpxxx
For those just joining us, this is what's called an "obscenity" or "moral
atrocity". Please keep this in mind when reading comments praising this
inculcation technique.

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ramgorur
now this is sick.

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tkahn6
The points thing has been up for months, why outrage now?

Oh right. Probably the same reason there is outrage now and not in the past
few months when 600 rockets have been fired at Israeli civilians.

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Evbn
Obviously if you are against the IDF actions, you are moatly against
promotional tools, and if you are for the IDF actions, you are mostly for the
promotional tools.

Mock outrage over the promotion doesn't make any sense. They are simply an
extension of the underlying actions. Be outraged by those, if you will.

