
Use a Fake Location for Cheap Airfare - ZeljkoS
http://www.businessinsider.com/use-a-fake-location-for-cheap-airfare-2014-6
======
alister
Brazil's major airline, TAM, has a nice little trick of their own to fend off
the OP's advice.

Even if you use TAM's Brazilian portal where you have to navigate in
Portuguese, and even if you use it from within Brazil, you won't get the
Brazilian price. As a foreigner, you'll have to pay up to 50% more.

What's their little trick? They demand that you enter your CPF number, a
Brazilian national identity number, to buy from the Brazilian portal for
exactly the same ticket. And you can't make one up, or use the CPF number of a
Brazilian friend, because they query a government database to verify that the
CPF number matches the purchaser's name.

It's discussed in more detail here:

[http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_fl...](http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_flight_within_Brazil)

The CPF number, by the way, is absolutely _not_ a government requirement.
Anyone can buy a ticket at a travel agency in Brazil or at the airport without
a CPF number. This is either the height of incompetent website design by TAM,
or more likely, their price discrimination technique to charge more from
foreigners.

~~~
malandrew
Back in 2002, in Argentina, I had a similar problem (I was living in Brazil at
the time). I purchased flight online in Spanish while in Buenos Aires and got
a great price relative to the price quoted on the English version. However,
when I went to pick up the ticket, I was told that I was given the wrong price
and that the price I paid was only for Argentine nationals. They basically
wouldn't let me get my ticket unless I paid the original price.

I don't remember the exact figures but it was something like $60 for
Argentinians and $200 for foreigners.

~~~
tripzilch
Well, at least they were being upfront about it...

~~~
malandrew
After I bought my ticket. There was nothing on the site that said "This price
is for Argentine nationals only". I was absolutely livid when I was in the
office where I had to pick up the ticket. IIRC I told them that they deserved
the banking crisis meltdown for commerce shenanigans like the one they were
pulling (this was about one year after those events).

------
tzs
> For reasons I never quite understood, every time I tried to book a domestic
> flight in another country, the prices were always exorbitant.

...

> But, say, once I was in Bangkok, that same flight that was once $300 would
> fall to $30 almost inexplicably. This phenomenon is because a ticket’s
> point-of-sale—the place where a retail transaction is completed—can affect
> the price of any flight with an international component.

The reasons are pretty easy to understand. When you try to book an in-country
flight in Thailand from the United States or Europe, they infer that you are
someone who will soon be traveling on an expensive international flight to
Thailand. They infer that you will accept $300 for an in-country flight rather
than say "screw this, I'll take the train or bus", because (1) you can afford
international travel so $300 probably isn't a big deal to you, and (2) there's
a good chance you are on a business trip and need that domestic flight to keep
things on schedule.

When you try to book an in-country flight from within Thailand, those
inferences do not work.

At some point, they'll get clever and look at your IP address when you make an
online booking, and even if you are booking in-country they will give you the
$300 rate if you are connected through a hotel that is popular with
international travelers.

~~~
Moru
This does not only go for airline tickets, it's very common in all
transactions. Just need to go to the console market and compare the game
prices between market. They extract whatever they think the customer is able
to pay.

There are people buying diapers and filling trucks with them going from one
country to another because of the large price difference between the
countries.

~~~
crazypyro
People do this in America with tobacco cigarettes. In Missouri, the taxes are
low so the price per pack spread can be pretty high when compared to NY state,
so people illegally sell Missouri cigs to NY stores to avoid the high taxes.

[http://nypost.com/2014/07/14/state-confiscating-thousands-
of...](http://nypost.com/2014/07/14/state-confiscating-thousands-of-illegal-
cigarettes/)

tl;dr - Missouri $ .17 tax per pack, NY $4.35 (+$1.50 NYC) per pack.

~~~
SheepSlapper
I do the same thing, but with booze. The Idaho border is 15 minutes away, and
the amount you save (at least, if you drink as much as I do) is well worth the
time spent getting there and back.

Or if you're in my area and need cigarettes, you drive to the nearest
reservation and buy them tax free (which like you point out, makes a huge
difference). This one is a little bit more of a legal gray area, but that
never stopped anyone.

~~~
imjk
This is also very common of people in Massachusetts who live near the NH
border. The state run NH liquor stores are significantly cheaper than in MA.
They also conveniently place their stores all along the border on major
highways. It's less that an hour drive from Boston.

------
Doctor_Fegg
This is a repost by Business Insider: it would be kinder to point to the
original article at [http://maphappy.org/2014/06/use-point-of-sale-to-get-
cheaper...](http://maphappy.org/2014/06/use-point-of-sale-to-get-cheaper-
international-tickets/)

~~~
ericamho
So meta of me to find this on Hacker News! I run Map Happy, and yeah, we have
a syndication relationship with BI. Thanks for being so kind to link back to
the original piece... though it would have been nice to see our site headlined
instead of the BI piece. :)

Obviously, there are a lot of strategic PR rationales behind it.

------
josai
You'd want to be careful that you're viewing the same price package when doing
this. For example, when displaying a ticket price in Australia, it must be an
all-inclusive price - including all airport fees, surcharges, and everything
else. Viewing the same ticket from, say, Japan, it might appear cheaper but it
doesn't have those same inclusions, and when you add them all back in it comes
out pretty similar.

That said, I always buy my air asia flights in malaysian ringgits - it's
always cheaper than AUD.

~~~
jzwinck
One reason why Air Asia is cheaper in MYR is because it's a Malaysian company,
so they don't take foreign exchange risk nor pay bank fees when selling to you
in ringgit.

For even more fun, try buying KTM (Malaysian rail) tickets in MYR vs. e.g.
SGD. They will charge you the same numeric price, ignoring the exchange rate
of about 2.5:1. This works much the same as the airlines pricing by sales
region.

------
steventhedev
There are two basic causes of this, and they apply to a lot more than just
airfare:

1\. Price discrimination based on market segmentation. As others have
described, the consumer behavior of an international traveler is that they are
willing to pay more, so why not charge them?

2\. Badly set foreign exchange rates. Companies that sell internationally will
use an exchange rate internally when setting prices in a foreign currency that
are typically _very_ beneficial to themselves. Sometimes this represents the
inherent risk in doing business in a foreign currency. Other times, it is used
as a dumping tactic so they can claim they set their prices by simple
conversion (Strauss Israel, for example, uses an internal rate of 4.8, which
the shekel has never reached in all of history).

The former is the reason why flights in Brazil, Thailand are expensive when
purchasing abroad. The latter is the reason why Malaysian or Colombian flights
are expensive. Better advice is to simply know that most credit cards (both US
and european) automatically convert charges, and you'll get a much better rate
(typically 1-2% commission on the forex rate of the bill date) by finding a
way to make the purchase in the foreign currency, rather than USD or EUR.

EDIT: because I can't spell properly.

~~~
ericamho
I find that most of the credit card issuers don't automatically convert to USD
-- this usually happens more on the merchant end. The problem is that you
don't know if the online merchant is doing this or not... it's a lot easier,
say, if you're sitting down at a restaurant and find it happening.

------
lotsofmangos
I am amused by the level of intelligence the author expects of their
readership.

Personally, I would have thought that people who browse Business Insider to
have at least a basic grasp of currency conversion, rather than being
introduced to a price in Colombian pesos as a mysterious concept that
apparently is _" a lot of mumbo jumbo to most people"_.

~~~
bobbles
Yeah if you could have told me the USD conversion of 116,280 COP I would be
surprised...

~~~
lotsofmangos
Really? If a high school student couldn't, they'd fail basic mathematics. Of
course you'd have to look up the current exchange rate, but that goes for all
currency conversion. Having to look up an exchange rate is part of the process
of currency conversion.

~~~
zaroth
I think GP meant off the top of your head knowing the current-day conversion
rate, which would be impressive; not simply doing the calculation which is
certainly trivial, by what grade level, 3rd?

~~~
lotsofmangos
Well, yes, but given they change, if you are doing currency conversion you
have to look it up anyway. Always knowing the currency rate for all currencies
without looking it up would be impressive, if only because nobody can do that.

~~~
ericamho
Just wanted to point out -- since I actually wrote that original article -- is
that I wrote it for a general audience. We have existing relationships with a
lot of media partners like BI so sometimes I write for their audience in mind
to cull traffic back to the site, which has a way more niche audience (but I
still like to make it as accessible as possible to the general public).
Depending on where I'm trying to garner press from, I'll write with different
audiences in mind. (...if anyone's interested in the business/media/pr aspect
of it all.)

Apologies if I insulted anyone's intelligence but that wasn't the point. COP,
by far, is not a standard or major currency. How do you think my mother is
going to react when I talk to her about Guatemalan quetzales? She, does,
however understand Euros but for the purposes of this example, which is a
Colombian flight, it made no sense to use a different currency.

~~~
lotsofmangos
I was probably being an over-judgemental arsehole, is just that it seemed
really weird to have a price in a foreign currency referred to in a piece as
_" a lot of mumbo jumbo to most people"_, especially in a business paper,
though I would have found it out of place in the normal press as well.

I do not have any idea how your mother would react, however I am sure that
prices in Guatemalan quetzales can be presented in an article for general
readership outside Guatemala without worrying too much about how the audience
might react and without describing the written price as mumbo-jumbo, or
otherwise confusing.

You just tell them that the prices are in Guatemalan quetzales and how much it
is in something more well known. There is absolutely no need to prepare people
for the shock of the existence of obscure currencies.

The US journalist H. L. Mencken was quoted as saying:

 _" No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records
for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by
underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."_

For my money, writers taking this advice to heart has been one of the most
damaging forces in journalism and the knock-on negative effects into the
culture are incalculable in their horrendous variety.

------
lnanek2
Also worth clearing your cookies and logging out. I've seen Delta offer me
better prices after clearing cookies. I've seen Marriott offer me better
prices after logging out (amusingly I'm a platinum rewards member, but get
better pricing by logging out).

~~~
mandeepj
If you are using chrome then just go for incognito mode

------
westiseast
Airline pricing is such a racket - I can't imagine any other consumer facing
business with such dirty pricing practices. It woulsnt surprise me if the only
reason paying in USD or EUR is more expensive is simply because typically
people paying in those currencies are just more likely to pay a silly high
price.

------
Gravityloss
Is there a no-bullshit airline with a no-bullshit web shop with no-bullshit
pricing?

Like Google did with search.

~~~
smackfu
If you try to run a straightforward business, you have to charge more money
than competitors that do shady things. And the people who say they want no
bullshit buy from your cheaper competitors.

~~~
acheron
Yes. Airlines have decades of evidence showing that people will compare
comfort, reliability, "shady" practices, etc., and then 99% of the time throw
it all out and buy the cheapest ticket. If you wonder why flying sucks so much
now (aside from the TSA), it's because airlines literally have no option but
to compete on price. Airlines that try to compete another way will inevitably
fail.

~~~
qeorge
_Airlines literally have no option but to compete on price. Airlines that try
to compete another way will inevitably fail._

How do you explain JetBlue? They're not usually the cheapest, but I always
choose them over e.g., USAirways or Delta because its a nicer experience.

------
kondro
Except that American Airlines doesn't allow you to use a non-US credit card on
their US site and fails with a completely obtuse, out-of-context error that
you only discover the reason for after calling their callcentre.

~~~
gambiting
So what happens if you are a foreigner visiting the US and want to book a
ticket from within the US with your foreign card?

~~~
hueving
Don't fly on American Airlines. It's in the name. ;)

------
ericamho
Would there be anyway to link to the original article instead of Business
Insider which republished it? (says author of original article)

------
Gustomaximus
Another similar one I've founds is to find a good price and then run the same
request in several different country domains. The differences can be quite
large e.g.

travelcompany.com

travelcompany.co.uk

travelcompany.com.au

Also I've learnt never to book an extra night at the hotel reception when
plans change. It's invariably cheaper to go online and book through an
aggregator.

~~~
jzwinck
> It's invariably cheaper to go online and book through an aggregator.

Depends on the country. In less-developed places, proprietors of smaller
hotels pay relatively large fees (think 25%) to online booking services. If
you are already staying there, they will probably give you more days at
whatever rate you're already paying, or even less (because it's less work for
them to manage longer-term stays, and/or they may not be fully booked).

This happens when you deal with people who charge you based on their margins
rather than your consumer surplus.

~~~
alister
There's also the risk that aggregators will screw up something. On two
separate occasions I saw someone arguing with hotel reception about a booking
they made with an aggregator that the hotel never received. Customer says, _"
But I have the printout right here that says I paid in full!"_ Hotel says, _"
Sorry sir, you'll have to take that up with the company you paid. You didn't
pay us."_

------
hippich
I remember reading about this hack awhile ago and I was trying to do it, but
it was always +- same price + hassle to find company who will accept whatever
local currency is.

~~~
gst
Same here. Tried it a few times but was never able to get a significant price
difference.

------
jonalmeida
FWIW, this is what I do when I'm looking up air flights: \- Create a $5
DigitalOcean droplet. \- Setup a PPTP VPN [1] \- Login and verify you're now
in x location (where x is the region you created the droplet). \- Search, find
appropriate flight. \- Repeat with another region if needed. \- (optional)
Login without a VPN and book your ticket.

This is particularly helpful for Expedia.

[1]: [https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-
setu...](https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-setup-your-
own-vpn-with-pptp)

------
brianbreslin
I've heard prices are higher if you are logged in with your username on
airline sites. Also I wonder if there is a cheap way to run a Vpn that lets
you choose your "location" on the fly.

~~~
userbinator
I remember reading about companies offering different prices based on your
browser's user-agent - the argument was something like "Mac users are more
willing to spend more". Maybe you'd get discounts if you make them think
you're using an extremely old machine... like IE6 on Win98SE or thereabouts.

 _on the fly_

I see what you did there.

~~~
Gustomaximus
Some insurance companies do this too, using UA as a variable in determining
risk.

------
tamersalama
Anyone knows what are the options for booking those Google ITA Flights. Most
of the time the travel agents can't get the exact codes/prices.

~~~
jpatokal
Like it says, the key is the "Sales city". You have to find an agent
physically located in the city/country in question to be able to book with
that fare.

Once you've found one, give them the fare construction from the bottom of a
Matrix details page and you should be set:

[http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/21671/how-can-i-
bo...](http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/21671/how-can-i-book-a-
flight-plan-found-on-matrix-airfare-search)

------
hannibalhorn
Pretty poor examples. I reside in Colombia - you can choose spanish and
Colombia on the airline websites, but it all comes down to the country where
your credit card was issued. LAN simply won't let you pay the domestic price
with a foreign card, you'll have to physically go to a bank and hand over
cash. Avianca has one of my American cards whitelisted after actually going
down to the office to pay in person, but will generally decline the
transaction for foreign cards. Until you've actually submitted a transaction
and had it approved .. what you see on the site doesn't matter.

------
sauere
Semi-related: The Art of Hidden-City Ticketing
[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/magazine/mag-08subversion-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/magazine/mag-08subversion-t.html?_r=0)

tl;dr: if you are traveling to a airport that is dominated by a single
carrier, try to find a flight that includes that destination as a layover.
Then just get off there (only works if you are not traveling with check-in
luggage)

------
belorn
Its called price discrimination[1] and is fairly common practice. It can only
really be maintained for a longer time if resale is impossible, and
restrictions are added to ensure that market segments buy in the booking class
range that has been established for them.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination)

------
charlie_vill
Hi HN, not very savvy here but would be great to learn how to fake your
location? I am in London at the moment and would like to travel through Europe
for a bit for cheap.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
See up-thread on legality of setting airfares within Europe,
[http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-
rights...](http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-
rights/air/index_en.htm).

------
junto
I use a similar trick for hire cars.

------
blrgeek
Have seen mystifly.com work around this from a travel agent perspective.
Growing pretty fast..

------
pornel
Could this be related to a difference in local taxes, e.g. VAT?

~~~
coldcode
Generally flight taxes are based on (1) departure airport (2) arrival airport
(3) overflight countries. I remember looking at a flight from the US to France
that had about a dozen government entities adding taxes and fees that exceeded
the airline's actual price.

------
maaku
Just saved me $400. Awesome, thank you.

------
kruk
While the information useful in itself, the article has a misleading title and
assumes that reader has information he doesn't.

1) What is "that same flight"? Is that a domestic US flight that gets cheaper
when you're abroad? Or is it a domestic Thailand flight that gets cheaper when
you're in Bangkok?

2) Currency has little to do with Point of Sale. What the article is saying is
that using local currency may yield cheaper prices and that the airline's
website might not allow you to change the currency directly but might change
it automatically when you change the location.

