
Scientists Inject Human Brain Cells Into Mice, Make Them Smarter - olalonde
http://singularityhub.com/2013/03/28/scientists-inject-human-brain-cells-into-mice-make-them-smarter/
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tokenadult
Typical of Singularity Hub, this is a link-baity treatment of a story that has
already been widely reported. The underlying research study

[http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-
cell/abstract/S1934-5909(13)00...](http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-
cell/abstract/S1934-5909\(13\)00007-6)

is interesting, and worth replicating with varied experimental conditions, and
indeed it may be important for clearing up what glia cells do in the human
brain. But in terms of treatments on human beings, this looks a lot more
radical and a lot more likely to be expensive and subject to regulation than
simply engaging in deliberate practice and finding a good coach.

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dualogy
Do we really want smarter rodents?

(Then again, think if we could secretly outsource loads of PHP SQL-CRUD
projects to them..)

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Nyubis
This is a good question. HGTG-scenarios aside, what if they become sentient?
Do they deserve the same moral weight humans have now?

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ajitk
Aren't they sentient? They are able to perceive and feel things.

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erifneerg
People often mix the words sentience and sapience to mean the same thing. Mice
clearly can perceive and feel things but they do not show the intelligence
_we_ call sapience.

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cpursley
What are we doing tonight, Brain?

The same thing we do every night, Pinky...

...Try and take over the world!

~~~
eadlam
"Try to ..."

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fabriceleal
Reminded me of this: <http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2881>

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ptbello
oh and by the way, one of the mice is called Algernon

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon#Short_stor...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon#Short_story)

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dsowers
Just finished that book last night. It was a good read, but deeply unsettling
for some strange reason. His intelligence decline at the end makes the reader
feel like retardation is a very near threat to all of us. It's one of those
threats that seems worse than death, too.

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exodust
Perhaps the injected mice had less appetite from side effects of the human
brain cells, therefore not crazy about the idea of getting hurt for food. Mice
are already smart. They can steal and transport cat food in their mouths and
stash it for later out of sight. That's not the actions of a stupid mouse.

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quasque
None of the tests they used were food-related.

If you're curious, pages 13 to 17 of the supplementary data (from "Auditory
fear conditioning" onwards) describe the methods they used to test learning
and memory: [http://download.cell.com/cell-stem-
cell/mmcs/journals/1934-5...](http://download.cell.com/cell-stem-
cell/mmcs/journals/1934-5909/PIIS1934590913000076.mmc1.pdf)

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exodust
Thanks, and good to know it's more than dangling carrots and lost appetite.
Although I wonder if injected brains is an effective treatment for mouse
depression?

"...all mice were housed in individual cages for 2 months in a single room
prior to testing."

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shardling
Six hours and no reference to the Rats of NIMH?! :)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Frisby_and_the_Rats_of_NIM...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Frisby_and_the_Rats_of_NIMH)

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bcx
Beat me by 34 minutes :-)

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currysausage
Just a few more years of research and Brecht's wonderful allegory might
finally become reality: <http://pamolson.org/ArtSharksMen.htm>

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felix
I know how this movie ends...

with the whole colony trying to get to the lee of the stone.

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nsns
This title could be nicely used as a mirror for personal prejudice. If you
manage to see through the lazy dust of anthropocentrism, you'll read it as
full of horror and pain.

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quasque
Every species favours its own - humans are not special in that regard.

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gruseom
Only humans perform experiments on other species that we would regard as
torture if they were done to us. We argue that it's for the greater good, of
course, but the ease and speed with which we rush to accept that is
suspicious; in other areas of life we would regard such arguments as obvious
self-serving spin. It's not hard to imagine that future generations will look
back on many of these experiments with the same moral horror that we have
toward some of the past.

I had this feeling when watching the Capuchin monkey fairness experiment in
Frans de Waal's TED talk. From an ordinary point of view, it's cute and
charming. You laugh along with the audience; the monkeys are funny. You go
away with a heartwarming feeling that you've learned something about primate
(and thus human) nature. But if the veil drops and you look at it more
immediately, the video can also seem horrific. At least it struck me that way.
That and other things have got me wondering whether there's something wrong
with a science that excludes empathy as a component of knowledge.

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mjmahone17
I seem to recall, bottlenose dolphins have been known to attack and kill
spinner dolphins for "fun" (i.e. they don't eat the dolphin afterwards). Cats
play with mice before finally killing them. That's, in my mind, as close to an
"experiment" as you get in nature. Don't assume humans are the worst animals
out there: while we have our horrible streaks, if we gave our mental capacity
over to other animals (say, chimpanzees), the world would be no prettier. At
least we've mostly eliminated the murder of our rivals' children so that we
can impregnate the mother, unlike our closest genetic relative.

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2510c39011c5
Could they inject human brain cells into dogs, instead of mice? I just feel a
dog who knows English would be more lovely than a mouse who knows the same
language...

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barbs
"...and human’s are the smartest of all thinkers"

:|

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heydenberk
Christine O'Donnell, 2010 Tea Party candidate for the senate in Delaware,
totally saw this coming.

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systematical
Sign me up for a shot of Einstein astrocytes.

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antsam
I for one welcome our new mouse overlords.

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alexvr
I bet they named the mouse Algernon.

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knodi
Playing with fire.

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shadowrunner
These experiments are cruel. Who has the right to experiment on these animals?
Who gave these "scientists" permission to inflict suffering on these mice?
Accountability and compassion are lacking here.

When will we as a race start challenging the morality of animal
experimentation and vivisection? There needs to be protections afforded to
animals. This cruelty needs to stop.

~~~
benesch
Turn the question on its head. Why is it right to prolong human and animal
suffering to minimize the suffering of a few lab animals?

These experiments are _incredibly_ important for science and healthcare.

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shadowrunner
Am I to believe you? Even if these experiments do have importance, are they
more important than being humane and ethical?

We're so damn advanced as a race, yet we can't come up with more humane
alternatives?

We have record unemployment and pharmaceutical companies that are making
billions in profits, why can't we experiment on humans who give consent and
are fairly compensated? It's more humane to animals and people.

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unimpressive
Because these experiments kill stuff.

The humans are more valuable, and I'm sorry that you'd rather see them die
than a few rodents.

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shadowrunner
And I'm sorry you lack insight and empathy towards both animals and people who
could use the income to have a better life.

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GHFigs
The problem is you (as a scientist) don't know that an experimental subject
will have a better life, or a life at all, and you don't have enough data
about the risks to fairly compensate a person for taking those risks on.
You're just making the cost of collecting data much more expensive while
shifting the risk (of suffering, disability, death) from animals bred for the
purpose to poor people.

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anoncow
While the topic was about animal suffering, you are talking about suffering in
human subjects. As far as I know(and that is not much), human studies are done
after animal studies. This means the drug is most likely not toxic to animals
and by extension humans.

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GHFigs
You didn't read the thread. He's suggesting doing human studies _instead of_
animal studies.

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anoncow
Without animal studies, you are exposing human subjects to potentialy toxic
drugs.

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unimpressive
That's what _we_ said.

