
U.S. (finally) Says Treasury Bonds Seized in Italy Are Fakes  - falsestprophet
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=adc1HD7mWY4A
======
ciscoriordan
I hope some enterprising reporter is able to figure out the whole backstory.

~~~
biohacker42
Super high quality fakes of US currency (as in $100 bills) have come out of
rouge states for a while. It is not surprising to me, that the same people, or
other people too, would attempt to fake this form currency as well.

------
ctkrohn
One of the more conspiratorial explanations being passed around earlier today
was that these bonds were secretly sold Japan in the 80s, to finance the
growing deficit without letting anyone know. At that time, Japan was the
largest holder of US debt, so it makes sense that Japanese people were found
carrying the bonds. And if the debt was issued in secret, it should be no
surprise that there's no official record of these denominations or
coupon/maturity combinations.

I'm pretty sure it's just a criminal scam and we shouldn't read much into it.
Still, it's always fun to come up with conspiracy theories.

------
marvin
The interesting part here is that bonds are issued electronically. The
electronic part of the international banking system is really fascinating.
I've been wondering how hard it would be to "create money out of thin air" by
hacking this system. I'm certain that someone has already done this. The best
part is that it could be unpunishable, if the money is "created" in a country
you know that you will never visit again. Morally, it is equivalent to forging
money..except perhaps with no damage to the third party that receives the fake
money. Practically victimless if you do it on a small scale.

Does anyone know any good books or other source of information about
international banking and money transfer?

I'm thinking that there is a lot of security by obscurity here.

------
patrickg-zill
Somewhat related but not exactly the same is this scan of a paper document
described as a "Safe Keeping Receipt" from the Federal Reserve:

<http://etleboro.com/documents/copy-title.pdf>

Note Page 2 phrase: "This ... is an operative instrument, and it is confirmed,
irrevocable, unconditional, divisible, transferable and assignable without
presentation to us."

So at least until 2006, the Fed did issue paper instruments.

~~~
wallflower
This article says that scanned document is illegitimate:

<http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2009/06/italian-job.html>

------
barrybe
Whew, it's a good thing that everyone remained calm and no one overreacted
about that issue.

[http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a...](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a62_boqkurbI)

~~~
robotrout
Yeah, because if they were real, with all that such a thing would imply about
the health of the dollar, the treasury talking head that pronounced them fake
would certainly have admitted they were real.

"Yep, they're real. Japan was trying to secretly unload $135Billion, but that
doesn't mean you should sell your dollars Mexico, China, Brazil, Russia, or
England. Nope, just ignore Japan, they're a little crazy over there"

OR..

"Nope, they were fake!"

------
TrevorJ
I don't believe the Treasuries' statement for a second, because it is
precisely the only statement the could make regardless of the truth of the
matter.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
You don't believe it? You've got to be kidding.You think it's Black Helicopter
Tin Foil Hat time? First of all, if they were not fake, it would quickly be
found out they are legitimate from other sources and the government would look
ridiculous.

Nevertheless, you really find it more believable that they actually seized
$135 Billion in bonds from the 1950s from two dumb dumbs crossing the border
in Italy? Cool. I have a bridge you might be interested in and for only a fee
$50,000 I can give you access to vault filled with $1Million US in Lagos,
Nigeria if you are interested.

~~~
TrevorJ
"the government would look ridiculous."

You criticize me and then make my point for me. No matter what the truth of
the matter is the only thing the treasury would say publicly is that they are
fakes, that's my point. Even if a portion of the bonds where real you would
never hear about it. Period. Find out from whom? Other bondholders? Why would
they want to destabilize the value of the bonds they hold?

No, I'm not saying they must be fakes. But come on, do you REALLY think the
treasury is completely open about all of it's dealings? There is a reason we
went off the the silver standard. There's all sorts of slight of hand you can
perform with fiat money that you can't get away with if it needs to be backed
up 1:1 with silver.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
No, revealing a cover-up of such a thing is much more embarrasing than the
original problem.

------
sdurkin
Damn. I was hoping to be able to write off a cool hundred-bill from the
national debt. :)

------
bitdiddle
maybe these are bonds they put into the locked box when SS was running
surpluses :)

------
miracle
That was quiet an easy way for the U.S. to reduce their debts!

------
vaksel
why are treasury bonds printed on paper anyways? Shouldn't this stuff be in
the form of a credit card or something?

~~~
eli
As I understand, they're all registered and the registry is what matters. The
paper is effectively a receipt.

~~~
calambrac
These were bearer bonds, with no central registration. Obviously, there are
problems with this, so the US no longer issues them.

