
John McCain’s campaign trail: ‘The Weasel, Twelve Monkeys and the Shrub’ (2000) - di
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/david-foster-wallace-on-john-mccain-the-weasel-twelve-monkeys-and-the-shrub-194272/
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ajkjk
Dang, do I ever love DFW's rambling. It's so _enjoyable_ compared to everyone
else's rambling.

I have always wondered why he uses the word 'which' in a way that nobody else
does, as in:

"...he had to eject, which basically means setting off an explosive charge
that blows your seat out of the plane, which ejection broke both McCain’s arms
and one leg and gave him a concussion and he started falling out of the skies
right over Hanoi."

The second 'which' does not seem grammatically correct to me, but he does it
_all the time_, and he probably knows the rules better than anyone. I assume
it's a archaic form that he was the last holdout for?

~~~
ComputerGuru
It’s very much grammatically correct, but it’s certainly fallen out of favor.
You’ll see it in older scientific papers.

------
jacquesm
So, there goes John McCain (he just died). It's a real pity, he seems to have
been one of very few politicians on the Republican side that actually spoke
his mind and that stood up to the bully.

His voice will be sorely missed, both within the USA as well as outside of it.

I lost a family member to cancer last week (@60), it went from A-ok to gone in
the space of two months, it's a very harsh disease.

~~~
InclinedPlane
The voice that matters most for a politician is their vote, McCain did not use
his vote to stand up to Trump, quite the contrary.

~~~
jacquesm
McCain being part of the Republican party would be expected to vote along the
lines of that party most of the time so I see no surprise there. But given the
ample opportunity that others have had to speak out it is surprising that so
few do and allow all this to assume the mantle of acceptability. That McCain
chose to make himself heard deserves recognition, even if his voting record is
as it is, especially today.

~~~
boomboomsubban
His voting record helped cause the deaths of around 80 Yemeni children in the
past month. I'm sure their families are relieved to know that McCain opposed
outside influence in US elections.

~~~
dogma1138
Ah yes his voting record magically guaranteed a proxy war between Iran and KSA
in Yemen and Syria.

The Middle East was a fucked up place before the impact of US foreign policy
and it will still be fucked even if the Us goes into full isolationism,
dictatorships and theocracies with forced national identities governing non-
heterogenous ethnic groups tend to cause that.

It’s the same reason why European empires broke down and why the Balkans are
in such a mess.

~~~
boomboomsubban
>Ah yes his voting record magically guaranteed a proxy war between Iran and
KSA in Yemen and Syria.

His voting record sold Saudi Arabia the bombs used to kill those children, and
the attacks could only take place with US support.

~~~
dogma1138
Ah so it's the bombs that Saudi Arabia uses which are the problem? Do you
blame Obama for them as well? He approved on just as many sales heck he
lobbied for many of them Or do you blame Obama for his foreign and security
policies which greenlit the power struggle between Iran and KSA which started
this whole mess?

Hindsight is always 20/20...

But since we're talking about pure logistics here do you think KSA would have
problems purchasing those bombs from anyone else? KSA buys as much weapons
from Europe these days as they do from the US, if the EU and the US won't sell
them bombs then Russia, China or India would, heck KSA is even flying Israeli
made drones.

And the whole argument is just utterly shameful, it's nothing more than the
old hyperbolic trope of but think of the children.... if KSA only dropped
bombs on the Iranian backed houthi rebels would that make McCain's voting
history acceptable in your mind?

Because if all it takes is a few tragic oopsies with too much collateral
damage then I don't even want to know what you think about everyone else in US
politics since no one can hold a candle to the US when it comes to oopsie I
didn't mean to hit that....

~~~
boomboomsubban
>Do you blame Obama for them as well? He approved on just as many sales heck
he lobbied for many of them Or do you blame Obama for his foreign and security
policies which greenlit the power struggle between Iran and KSA which started
this whole mess?

Yes. McCain has been a prominent advocate for this war for a long time, but
the neocon ideology behind it infects both parties.

>But since we're talking about pure logistics here do you think KSA would have
problems purchasing those bombs from anyone else? KSA buys as much weapons
from Europe these days as they do from the US, if the EU and the US won't sell
them bombs then Russia, China or India would, heck KSA is even flying Israeli
made drones.

They also need US intelligence support for these attacks to happen. If the US
was opposed to the war, it would be difficult to find a replacement able to
provide both elements that doesn't have good relations with Iran.

>And the whole argument is just utterly shameful, it's nothing more than the
old hyperbolic trope of but think of the children....

It's not "think of the children," it's "think of the innocent civilians being
slaughtered and the pain that must cost their families." This isn't some
overblown moral dilemma, real people are dying because of these decisions.

>if KSA only dropped bombs on the Iranian backed houthi rebels would that make
McCain's voting history acceptable in your mind?

If somehow the only victims of war were willing participants, it seems likely
my views would change.

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cloakandswagger
I'm surprised that these topics about McCain are appearing and sticking
around. From HN's guidelines:

"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're
evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. [...] If they'd cover it on TV
news, it's probably off-topic."

If this is the new standard then it's a worrying incursion of US politics into
HN.

Can someone make a convincing argument as to how McCain's death is of
particular interest to hacker culture? My feeling is these topics are sticking
around because they're honoring a guy that seems beloved by both sides of the
political spectrum (no dispute from me there), but it doesn't change the fact
that this doesn't fit HN guidelines.

Edit: And before someone mentions it, I'm aware that I myself am breaking the
guidelines by questioning the appropriateness of this topic. I think it's a
fair discussion to be had when neither the flagging mechanism or HN's
moderation staff are enforcing what should be the principal rule of the site.

~~~
Herodotus38
I think the majority of the votes are not due to McCain but because the author
is David Foster Wallace, who is fairly popular on HN. The article, albeit
about McCain, is broad and at times focused on the realities people involved
in political journalism, youth engagement in politics, why we try like certain
candidates, etc...

At least that's my opinion

------
Herodotus38
This is sort of tangential, but I was wondering if anyone here who is a fan of
David Foster Wallace has seen the movie on Netflix about him? I wasn't sure if
it's good. Edit: it's called "The End of the Tour".

~~~
cwmoore
I saw the movie. I had hoped it would be good, but I can't say that it was
_meaningful_ to me. The protagonist became a terrible shell of himself to have
met his idol, and the idol himself was not a traditional hero, rather a
matured one. I admit, I have yet to read Infinite Jest. I truly enjoyed
Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon, to whom David Foster Wallace was often
compared, and I am glad you pointed out the author of TFA so I might read this
present piece.

