
The Power of Nudges, for Good and Bad - lujim
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/upshot/the-power-of-nudges-for-good-and-bad.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=1
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bigethan
Once again Capitalism trumps Ethics ;-)

It'd be easy to dismiss this as "nudges are just marketing", but I do think he
has a point. If a nudge is the ui trying to be a knowledgeable assistant, it
shouldn't be dishonest. Similar to dark patterns, but maybe even more overt.

To me the question is, how do we reward ethical behavior (as opposed to
shaming violators)? Capitalism is all about monetary rewards, so can Ethics
beat out dark patterns? I kinda think this goes along with the rise of ad
blockers. No idea what to do about it.

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programmarchy
> how do we reward ethical behavior (as opposed to shaming violators)

Pretty simple. Buy products from ethical companies. Don't buy products from
unethical ones.

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bigethan
Please try harder (or be less sarcastic?). How do I know which is which?

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A_COMPUTER
He holds up the mortgage industry in the early 2000's as an example of how
"nudging" in private industry can backfire worse than in government. It
completely overlooks how the government was using the mortgage industry to do
its own nudging. If anything it confirms the opposite of what he intended.

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jasode
_> , I have no beef with pay walls. But before signing up, I read the fine
print. [...] United went a step further, though. It asked me to select “yes”
or “no” before buying a ticket and highlighted the “yes” option as
“recommended.” Required choice plus a recommendation qualifies as a strong
nudge._

For examples like those, I think the meme "dark pattern"[1] has more
currency[2] and I wish the author chose to use it (or at least mention it)
instead of expanding his "nudge" meme into "bad nudge".

An author will stick to their own terminology because of ego, or because of
ignorance. I don't know which is applicable in R. Thaler's case so we can be
charitable and assume it's ignorance.

[1] [http://darkpatterns.org/](http://darkpatterns.org/)

[2] ~263000 hits for "dark pattern" and ~930 for "bad nudges"

[https://www.google.com/search?q="dark+pattern"](https://www.google.com/search?q="dark+pattern")

[https://www.google.com/search?q="bad+nudges"](https://www.google.com/search?q="bad+nudges")

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baobabaobab
Convincing people to buy things using psychological manipulation is what
marketing is all about.

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lakeeffect
There is a difference between psychological manipulation and cultivating
confusion or blatantly misleading. An ethics still applies to marketing's use
of psychological manipulation that asks the customer to participate.

