
PyCharm 2.5 python IDE released.  - salimmadjd
http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/whatsnew/index.html?PC25US
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heyitsnick
Big PyCharm fan. I have used all the major IDEs, both python specific and
general, and I always found they got in the way more than the time-saving
features they purported to offer. I always switched back to a basic text
editor (Sublime Text).

But then I found PyCharm and actually spent a weekend learning how to use it.
It's a real pleasure to use. Intellisense stuff works very well, some of the
refactoring features are excellent, and all the handy things like ctrl-enter
to import things, ctrl-n/ctrl-shift-n to jump to different code in projects,
really speeds up development.

I still use Sublime Text for short scripts, but for any major projects i use
PyCharm for everything. The django support (with debugging, including template
debugging) is killer.

Also my one interaction with the development has been excellent. I reported a
bug (i did have to sign up to their bug track which was a bit of a nuisance),
and the bug was fixed in a day and a new update with the fix pushed out to me
within a week. Impressive iteration cycle given the size of the software.

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jsvaughan
FWIW if you are an intellij user you can install the jetbrains python plugin,
which offers much of the same functionality:

[http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/PYH/PyCharm+vs.+Inte...](http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/PYH/PyCharm+vs.+IntelliJ+IDEA+Python+plugin+FAQ)

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pmdan
Favorite IDE for Python, and strong features for client-side development as
well. It would be great to see them offer increased Tornado support.

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architgupta
Non flame-bait question. I am mostly a VIM user. Are there people who do plug-
ins on top of vim to get "similar" experience to PyCharm?

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jomohke
You need to write a full Python parser to get similar intelligence in vim -
and it would be difficult to do smoothly given that vim plugins can't
communicate with a long-running process as the code-assist emacs plugins do
(which is my biggest complaint about modern vim).

Alternatively, PyCharm has a vi plugin which isn't too bad (depending on which
features of vim you expect).

~~~
architgupta
Interesting. So emacs would be able to do this well I imagine.

I'll look into the vi bindings support in PyCharm.

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rplnt
Price of personal license is +25% for EU countries as opposed to US. I thought
it's only game distributors who do this kind of thing.

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toyg
Personally I've found their price for Personal licenses to be very low -- in
the Python world, ActiveState Komodo is $295, Wing IDE is $245, BlackAdder is
the only one under $100 and it looks quite "underpowered" when compared to
PyCharm.

Regardless, they have promotions running for long periods, so it's easy to
start with a trial and then pick up a real license when the price is lower --
the last one ended on 16 April and was 30% off, I got mine last September and
it was 50% off.

In general, for software like for everything else, prices reflect what the
market will bear. We are willing to pay more, clearly. It's slightly
embittering that in this case they cannot bring the usual "import taxes"
justification, since they're based in Czech Republic.

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cjg_
Based in the EU means they have to collect VAT for all EU customers. And the
VAT amount depends on the volume of sales. If they sell more than a certain
amount (€100k) to a specific country they can collect the VAT rate for the
buyer country otherwise it is the seller country VAT. And the VAT seems to be
20% in Czech Republic. (see
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#Distance_sales))

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rplnt
It specifically states that the price is without tax (tax excluded). I didn't
proceed any further to see if it will be included in the later steps.

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cjg_
Checked my last receipt from them, 19% VAT was included in the total amount
billed (this was 2011 and it was for Resharper). But the seem to sell it
through a German company so I guess it is German VAT.

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revelation
Using 2.5 as the version number for your Python IDE is somewhat irritating.

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gulbrandr
I don't understand your comment. Do you mind to elaborate?

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sdfjkl
I think he means the (obscure) risk of confusing it with the somewhat elderly
Python 2.5.

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gulbrandr
I see. Thanks.

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toyg
One major gotcha they're still working on is PyQt support -- their
introspection techniques tend to break very often when dealing with it, which
results in a lot of unnecessary warnings and word-completion being spotty. I
understand their main target market is web-developers (Django and GAE support
looks good, now virtualenv is also dealt with in the proper way), but that's a
niche that has been crying out loud for good tools for ages (ERIC is weak,
sorry).

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topka
Seems there's a number of issues reported for PyQT in PyCharm tracker:
<http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues/PY?q=PyQT> You're welcome to add yours
and vote for existing. Votes matter.

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rkwz
OT - I'm seeing more OSX based screenshots of cross-platform tools. Is it just
for aesthetic purposes or is there a trend where more and more devs are
starting to use Macs?

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topka
We found that screenshots on Mac _do_ look better most of the time. And yes,
you can see the trend of more and more devs using Macs. Prooflink:
<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/228843/RailConf_Mac_vs_PC.jpg> That was shot at
RailsConf, where historically more Macs are used, but this is quite general
nowadays.

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nknight
I dug up this shot of PyCon JP 2011:
<http://www.ianlewis.org/media/img/662/audience.jpg>

I count at least 8 Macs, two more that may or may not be Macs. I don't see any
blatantly non-Mac laptops.

To be fair, I can't be sure it's not a session on, say, PyObjC, but I also
found this:
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/shimizukawa/6142969129/in/set-7...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/shimizukawa/6142969129/in/set-72157627536036671/)

Five Macs, possibly a sixth hiding behind one guy's head. Two non-Macs (one
looks like a thinkpad and I think the one in the lower right is a vaio).

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toyg
The trend is undeniable, but there's some selection bias in your post: people
with Macs do tend to flaunt them around, especially at geek gatherings where
you find a lot of contractors/independent/superstar/fashion-victim developers
who have a say in the hardware they use. You don't see the thousands of
corporate developers with work-issued laptops nor the academic working on "big
rigs"; they're not all uber-hackers but they're not all shit either. Apple
adoption is also lower in Europe due to higher prices compared to NA and
Japan.

Last few times I've been to (Euro) Python conventions, I was actually
surprised to see a lot of really skilled guys doing real computation (3d,
molecular modelling etc) while happily running Windows on their laptops.

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andybak
Anyone else on OSX seeing high CPU usage? I get ~7% when it's just sitting
there with 1 project open.

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andybak
Here's a bug you can vote for:
[http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-84652?projectKey=ID...](http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-84652?projectKey=IDEA)

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GvS
>Sun JDK 1.6. (OpenJDK is not supported)

On Ubuntu Sun JDK is not supported.

I'll stick to free Aptana plugin for Eclipse.

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topka
You can install Sun JDK on Ubuntu. It's not a big deal. There are still some
problems with using OpenJDK, which are being solved now. So, it will be
supported someday too.

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nknight
Really? Because this issue is marked wontfix:
<http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-4763>

I've noticed that to the extent JetBrains communicates at all, it has a highly
irritating habit of marking issues wontfix and making content-free statements
(sometimes passive aggressive at that) until they get publicly called on it,
and suddenly it's a completely different attitude.

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topka
It was 6 months ago. And it was a 100% wontfix then. But things change quite
rapidly nowadays. Here's one problem solved:
<https://twitter.com/#!/eniton/statuses/186861528677494784>. Maybe others can
be solved too.

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nknight
Six months ago, OpenJDK had already been declared the official reference
implementation for Java SE 7 (for several months, in fact), and the OS
Distributor License had already been withdrawn -- almost two months before
that issue was closed.

"Things change quite rapidly" indeed. Is JetBrains not able to keep up?

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topka
Unfortunately, declaring something does not always really change things.
Something else is often required.

JetBrains team has its opinions but is also flexible enough to change its
mind. And it has been keeping up quite good during the last 10+ years.

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denzil_correa
Unfortunately they don't have an academic license.

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autodafe
They do: <http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic>

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denzil_correa
Thanks!

