
Declaring War on Adderall - geoffwoo
https://medium.com/@nootrobox/declaring-war-on-adderall-39c5fe20d1e7
======
scrumper
> Imagine a world where our policy-makers, cancer-researchers, and
> entrepreneurs are all realizing gains from cognitive enhancement.

Seems like that would dramatically exacerbate the have/have not gap that the
article talks about earlier. And, corollary: imagine a world where our rogue
traders, mafia bosses, used car salesmen, cult leaders, and con artists are
all realizing gains from cognitive enhancement.

For fun, try a limit analysis: imagine a world where all your rivals in
business are dosed up on your nootropics. You're now in the position of having
to consume mind altering pharmaceuticals in order to retain your job, with
some completely uncertain future cost to your health. Or you could conclude
that the risk isn't worth it, and instead try to make a career in a lower
paying field suitable for 'unenhanced' people, probably something dangerous
and physical that robots can't quite manage yet.

It's frightening that the author thinks this is a good idea. I am clinging to
the hope that this was put together by some disgruntled college kids who want
the benefits but can't quite stomach the risk of buying black market Adderall.

EDIT - good: it got flagkilled. Horrible article.

~~~
bdm
[Co-author of the post here.]

Imagine a world where the boogey man has access to smart phones, encryption,
and chemical weapons. Yes it's scary. Technology provides a multiplying effect
on society, both the good and the bad segments. Typically the good outweighs
the bad, and one has to believe that technological advancement is generally a
positive thing for society.

The point about feeling pressured to use nootropics because of competitors or
peers is interesting. This type of soft coercion already exists with Adderall,
and you could say we are "coerced" into learning to read or getting a college
degree or owning a cell phone (BTW - for all we know, cell phones give you
cancer if you carry it in your pocket everyday for 30 years - no one knows the
exact risk). It only feels like coercion when there are significant worries
and risks, otherwise it's just a positive behavior shift. No one has a crystal
ball, but I would bet that society will decide that the benefits of nootropics
outweigh the risks & harms, especially if there's a nootropic that's milder,
safer & more equally distributed than Adderall.

Bioethicist Allen Buchanan goes into the coercion point in more detail:
[http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/02/why-
co...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/02/why-cognitive-
enhancement-is-in-your-future-and-your-past/252566/)

------
blt
> _Adderall, an amphetamine initially developed to treat people diagnosed with
> ADHD or narcolepsy, is in a heydey. One estimate states that at some
> colleges and in workplaces across the nation, despite (or maybe due to) the
> fact that it’s a habit-forming prescription drug._

It's pretty funny that an article seeking Kickstarter funding for a cognitive
enhancement drug would have a misspelling in its first sentence, and a missing
clause in its nonsensical second sentence.

~~~
bdm
Thanks! Good eye. The second sentence is fixed.

"Heydey" is not a typo - maybe I'm missing something else wrong in the first
sentence?

------
notacoward
Lots of energy, little coherency. Pretty much the kind of writing typical of
Adderall users. Also spam.

~~~
sosuke
I agree the article is high energy, almost exhausting to read, and bounces
around considerably.

Declaring war on Adderall is stupid, but saying you want to create a less
impactful alternative is commendable. However I don't like the promotion of
one product by saying another is evil, we've got enough of that going around.
Adderall isn't evil, drug abuse is a problem, these can both be true.

After all the work it took making mental conditions legitimate I'm always on
the skeptical side. Just 2 generations ago it was a very ugly thing to have
depression, ADD/ADHD or anything requiring medication to the point where I
still see adults from that age look down on their now adult children. Even
themselves sometimes, taking medication, saying it works, then feeling guilty
to the point of discontinuing even though they know the outcome.

Disclaimer: I take medicine, it just makes me feel normal and for that I am
happy. Don't screw with my only recently (decades) socially acceptable
treatment.

------
Zigurd
It is strange they should compare the safety of their non-prescription
nootropic to Tylenol, which is a particularly hazardous over-the-counter drug.

Secondly, you can get L-Theanine readily and inexpensively in the US. This
crowdfunding campaign seems to be a marketing exercise for something already
sold by multiple supplement makers. L-Theanine also appears to be less
hazardous than Tylenol.

~~~
bdm
Tylenol may be "hazardous" when abused, but doesn't it say something that it
remains over-the-counter? It suggests to me that the benefits outweigh the
risks, and the same could be true of a nootropic.

*

To call it a "marketing exercise" glosses over all of the important subtlety.
Identifying a brand, messaging, form factor, and specific combination of
ingredients to appeal to mass market is non-trivial. Isn't Red Bull just a
marketing exercise? What about Chobani and Muscle Milk? The original Apple
computers were just a "marketing exercise" around the Homebrew Computing Club,
packaging up things that were already available, but doing so elegantly and
building a trustworthy brand. There's considerable value in that.

~~~
Zigurd
You could say the same about potato salad.

~~~
bdm
Then start a potato salad company :)

I think time will tell if the gamble here is correct. Currently nootropics are
quite niche - a small minority of people even know what they are or take them.
This is odd, given how beneficial they can be. By serving nootropics to the
public on a silver platter, we hope to evangelize the benefits, assuage
people's concerns, and become defacto leaders in the biohacking space.

------
LyndsySimon
> The premise of Adderall is exciting: pop a pill and plug in, and to that
> end, it’s been shown to be quite effective. The problem is that casual, non-
> prescription users are faced with a false choice: 0 or 100. There is no in
> between, no widely available supplement that works, that’s available over
> the counter, that’s not illegal and harmful.

As a user of both Vyvanse (a successor to Adderall) and non-prescription
nootropics, I've found that to simply not be true.

I do in fact have ADHD. Vyvanse is a godsend 80% of the time, allowing me to
function when without it I would be unable to keep cognitive focus long enough
to figure out how long it's going to take me to get to work, much less sit
down and write code. I take it most of the time before work, and it's very
effective.

On days when I need to work late to meet a deadline, I could take a second
Vyvanse. That would be against my doctor's orders, but it would work. I'd also
not be able to sleep for an addition 6-8 hours, and over time could develop a
number of health issues from both lack of sleep and elevated metabolism.

So.. I take racetams. I started with piracetam several years ago, and found
that it allowed me to better absorb the structure of code that was difficult
to understand. Piracetam only lasts about 2 hours though, and I have to take
four capsules to get that much. It's bothersome, and I don't particularly want
to be the guy that's always popping pills at his desk.

Aniracetam seems about as effective for me, and lasts 4-6 hours. It doesn't
increase my heartrate or blood pressure like an amphetamine would, so it's
perfect for when I need a few extra hours of productivity that day.

Racetams have been fairly extensively studied, and are available over the
counter and as prescriptions elsewhere in the world. They're classified as
supplements in the US, and are pretty much unregulated.

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jasonlotito
So, this isn't a "war on Adderall", but really about creating an alternative
for those that are drug abusers. As someone who has ADHD, has a prescription
for an alternative to Adderall that is not addicting, I see "war on Adderall"
and read it as "war on Wheelchairs."

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danmaz74
TL;DR: Adderall is bad, we need better legal nootropics.

Very confusing and repetitive article BTW. Maybe the author didn't find the
drug for himself.

------
trhway
nootropics seems to be like steroids - useful medicine to treat real issues,
and to produce exceptional results in useless "pure for show" activities like
very quickly carrying that ball across those lines or picking out those 2 the
same words in a quickly flickering sea of words. No practical improvement in
any practical activities.

Note: 20+ years ago at University i first hand observed some acquaintances
using nootropics to facilitate exams cramming. It worked for that purpose.
While no practical improvement in their grades or knowledge beyond the day of
the exam. People with comparable capabilities did the same cramming without
chemicals too. With nootropics it was just easy, and sparing your mind such
hard work isn't a good thing in mathematics (or anywhere else) actually.

------
solve
Just curious, what are these permanent side effects that the article is
talking about?

~~~
acadien
For one thing Adderall slightly increases your blood pressure and heart rate.
That can have serious cardiovascular side effects in the long run.

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690554/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690554/)

------
geoffwoo
If you'd like to join us on our war against adderall, please support us at our
Indiegogo campaign here: igg.me/at/sprint

We're around to answer any questions / concerns as well!

~~~
pavel_lishin
What sort of testing has been done on the L-theanine + caffeine combo? I see
that the FDA has approved both of them as safe, but what about the
effectiveness?

~~~
geoffwoo
We care about safety first and effectiveness second. Here are some
informational reads about the L-theanine + caffeine combo.

[https://nootrobox.com/theanine](https://nootrobox.com/theanine)

[http://www.maneyonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/147683010X1261146...](http://www.maneyonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/147683010X12611460764840)

[https://nootrobox.com/assets/2008-owen-b0b4e2568156b1c5a8574...](https://nootrobox.com/assets/2008-owen-b0b4e2568156b1c5a8574717b3176216.pdf)

