
Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers - EndXA
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03655-5
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mark_l_watson
When I worked in Central Illinois recently, the home my wife and I rented
bordered a field where young cows were raised. The small cows seemed to play
some sort of game, running around each other like run after the leader. We
thought they were playing. Later my wife found stuff on the web about cows
being given beach balls to play with and with each other. Uncomfortable truth
for people who selfishly help environmentally destroy our planet with their
meat addictions? I would say yes.

My small Meyers Parrot similarly plays games, remembers things for months but
does eventually seem to forget things he has learned. His neocortex is
probably only one square inch.

My personal belief is that in life in the universe (with about 400 billion
galaxies _times_ about 100 billion stars per galaxy) is wide spread, if rare.
I think there is also some pressure for life to develop different types of
intelligence based on their biology and environment.

Anyway, I am in strong agreement with the people here saying that it is
difficult to recognize non-human intelligence as intelligence.

~~~
hyperpallium
> some pressure for life to develop different types of intelligence based on
> their biology and environment.

I always wonder what was the pressure for humans to develop recursive
language, and the cultural explosion about 70,000 years ago.

And in the millions of years before that, the pressure to rapidly dwvelop
larger brains. Other animals didn't seem to do that (though, we probanly
haven't tracked the development of other animals brain-sizes over such time
spans as assiduously as our own).

~~~
WalterBright
The pressure may have been having hands. It's amazing all the things we can do
with our hands.

~~~
hyperpallium
Interesting. Could have opened possibilies for intelligence to have utility.
BTW parrots are quite dextrous with their feet and tongue.

~~~
WalterBright
Unfortunately for parrots, they cannot evolve larger brains without giving up
flying. I suspect that birds in general have very optimized brains because of
the weight constraints.

~~~
hyperpallium
Though flightlessness is an option: emu, penguin, dodo, even a parrot (New
Zealand _Kakapo_ ).

~~~
WalterBright
Unsurprisingly, those evolved where they had fewer predators they needed to
fly away from.

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rpmisms
Any farm kid can tell you that animals are smart, especially if they've gotten
into a battle of wits with a goat.

As Mark Twain said (and I am paraphrasing), "the only distinction between man
and the lesser animals is that the lesser animals don't sit around and talk
about what makes them different from us."

~~~
WalterBright
> the lesser animals is that the lesser animals don't sit around and talk
> about what makes them different from us.

Yes, they do. I won't let my cat near the computer, as she'll use it to log
onto catnet and plot the cataclysm with the other cats. I've also caught her
leafing through my electronics parts catalogs. I'm not sure how worried I
should be.

~~~
gerbilly
Just use this:
[https://bitboost.com/pawsense/](https://bitboost.com/pawsense/)

(PawSense is a software utility that helps protect your computer from cats.)

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wanderfowl
Teaching about language in a university setting, we often talk about various
forms of evidence for language-like communication among animals.

As I tell students, I would bet that within our lifetimes, as research
continues and our instrumentation becomes better at detecting non-human
communication means, we'll finally be able to detect and decode 'language' in
a non-human animal which is sophisticated and rich enough as to be impossible
to handwave away.

But what I keep to myself is that this kind of discovery, and the cross-
species conversations it would prompt, has the potential to change the course
of the dialogue on animal rights and what it means to be 'human'. But I
suspect it will wind up being largely buried outside of certain academic and
spiritual communities, mostly because I don't think parts of our society could
handle learning the bovine words for 'slaughterhouse' or 'mourning'.

~~~
friendlybus
Christina Hunger has the ability to ask her dog questions and it goes to press
a button that represents the idea it wants to reply with. That button plays an
English word through a speaker for Christina. She's a speech pathologist on
Instagram and has a website for it. The dog learns word association in the
same way babies do.

Those videos are on Instagram, not buried. I'm fairly sure any breakthroughs
will make it to a Planet Earth documentary and we'll feel sad about it for a
while then go buy beef from the shops anyway.

~~~
clairity
that's neat. i talk to my dog all the time. she (a rescue) came to me already
knowing "do you wanna go out?" but had a really hard time teaching me when she
had anxiety diarrhea and needed to go out. i really needed a button for that
(she's mostly over it now though).

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Nasrudith
There is still some evolutionary chauvinism when it comes to assumptions of
animal intelligence as "distance from humanity" as other counterexamples prove
them wrong already.

Reptilian brain crap which seems based on superficial shape when we really
should know better now given evidence sitting in front of us.

It doesn't really hold. Sheep are infamously too dumb to live unassisted
perhaps owing to overbreeding for docility.

Meanwhile cephalopods are capable of opening jars and get up to mischief like
getting out of their tank and shorting out light fixtures when bored and I
have observed hermit crabs transmitting behavior socially ("punching" instead
of pinching with their larger claw) and figuring out how to rotate an
improperly secured lid on its axis.

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djsumdog
They're still reptiles though. They can't show signs of empathy or affection
like many mammals.

Most reptile training is pretty basic, and this experiment fits into those
expectations:

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NnwIlM6SmiQ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NnwIlM6SmiQ)

~~~
astrodust
They do show signs of affection and empathy, but it's different, a lot more
nuanced and subtle.

If you're comparing them to dogs, which are pack animals where those skills
are critical, it's not fair. They project their feelings.

Introverted animals have a lot in common with reptiles.

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chiefalchemist
Why surprising? If they move so slow they must have some other advantage that
enables them to persist.

Humans really need to get over themselves as the only species that possesses
intelligence.

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lagilogi
I keep getting surprised at the inability (refusal) of humans that we are not
the only intelligent (and emotional) life form on this planet. It is extremely
annoying.

~~~
truckerbill
I think it's a subconscious act of self-preservation. Truly accepting the
sentience of animals would be conferring upon them a much more expansive (and
expensive) set of rights, which in turn would make the our society seem all
the more immoral through how we treat other species. Too much cognitive
dissonance.

~~~
lostmsu
They are sentient, alright. But quite dumb. So we grow and eat them.

~~~
edgyquant
Define: dumb.

~~~
username90
We have been able to teach them to do trivial tricks on demand, but we can't
teach them to be productive members of society. We haven't even been able to
teach a single other species to do factory work, which is the simplest work
imaginable for humans.

~~~
e2le
Does this count?

The Baboon That Controlled a Railway for 9 Years -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpoLkMcQh24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpoLkMcQh24)

Although not factory work this Baboon was a productive member of society being
paid in alcohol and a small wage.

~~~
username90
It wasn't clear but did the Baboon ever do the work without James being there?
I agree it is impressive, but if the monkey couldn't man the position on its
own, like doing the work and only getting the beer and pay once a week and no
other rewards, then I don't think it counts.

~~~
e2le
I'm not sure it matters if whether James was there or not so long as the
Baboon was capable of performing the tasks without instruction from James
which multiple sources appear to imply.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(baboon)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_\(baboon\))

[https://web.archive.org/web/20160125001616/http://www.earthf...](https://web.archive.org/web/20160125001616/http://www.earthfoot.org/lit_zone/signalmn.htm)

~~~
lostmsu
I think this is a pretty generous interpretation given how old and random the
sources are.

