

Ask HN: How do you tone down your idea to something fesible? - diminium

How do you guys tone down your ideas to make something feasible but still relevant?
======
revorad
Sorry, I don't have time to make this short.

There are 2 ways:

1\. Talk to individuals who you expect to be your users.

Ask them how they currently do what your idea makes easier to do. Try to find
out if they have any problems with it, but don't push too hard. Just listen.
If they seem at all receptive, tell them about your idea. Then pay attention
to everything they talk about (good or bad). If they don't seem interested at
all, move on. Find the next person to talk to. Your aim at this stage is to
find people who do think your idea has some value. The uninterested ones
provide data to act on in case you don't find anyone interested in your idea
at all.

If you can find even 1 or 2 people who love your idea and really get excited
about some feature, then build that as quickly as you can and get them to use
it.

2\. Just build whatever little thing is useful to you immediately. It's ok if
it's ugly and incomplete. It should just give you more of at least one of the
following: time, money, fun, happiness.

Then show it to other people who you think might like it. Most reactions on
design you can safely ignore. People have a natural tendency to talk about how
things look because it's what they see first and feel obliged to say
something. It happens on HN all the time.

What you want to look for is things people really love or hate about what the
thing does. Also look at the data on what people are actually doing with your
product. They often say one thing, and do something completely different. So
pay attention to actual behaviour.

Out of all of this, you might notice one or two things really stand out. When
they do, zoom in and focus on them to an extent that will seem ridiculous. It
should make people say things like "This is just a feature, not a product".
Then you know you're really onto something.

The more interesting and novel your idea, you are better off going with route
2. The new conventional wisdom (of Lean) suggests you should mostly always go
with 1. But if you look at the landscape, the best ideas come from 2. The
chance of failing may also be higher with 2, but that's where the artist in
you comes out and pushes the boundaries.

Talking to people about your idea too early may kill the spark of magic that
brought it to life. Make it real asap.

These gentlemen say it better than I can -
<http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/replay/?p=363>

[http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/sir-
jona...](http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/sir-jonathan-ive-
the-iman-cometh-7562170.html)

~~~
diwank
You nailed it. Either way, I think the most important thing is to _go out and
talk to people_. Our mental models are pretty limited in that we see and feel
what we wish to see and feel. Talking to people helps open up whole new ways
of looking at things. There's always another perspective you failed to see.

I recently came across the Stanford design Bootcamp Bootleg [1]. It outlines
the whole process for getting from an itch to a working product. And they
obsess over empathy. It's all over the Bootleg. Interview potential users,
learn how they currently solve the problem you're trying to solve and show
them how your idea could help them.

The Bootleg is highly recommended. Even if you don't follow the practices it
describes, it pays to have those mental models.

We were brainstorming recently. And we did this entire exercise. We went to
meet students, shop owners, teachers and even some folks at the local
administration. It was extremely tedious but our efforts paid off. We gathered
insights that range from pretty obvious to mind-numbing and some even rather
stupid.

We then made a small web presentation [2] of the most interesting ideas and
asked people to vote and give their suggestions. It has been a very rewarding
experience.

[1]: [http://dschool.stanford.edu/wp-
content/uploads/2011/03/Bootc...](http://dschool.stanford.edu/wp-
content/uploads/2011/03/BootcampBootleg2010v2SLIM.pdf)

[2]: <http://idea.diwank.name>

~~~
revorad
Boy, [1] is a long document. I scanned through it quickly and noticed some
good ideas, but I don't have the patience to do any of it in the way
described. There's too much process.

Have you shipped any of the ideas in [2]?

~~~
diwank
> _Boy, [1] is a long document. I scanned through it quickly and noticed some
> good ideas_

I understand. It's a whole bunch of neat design processes. But it's huge! You
can take a look here for the separate ideas. <http://dschool.stanford.edu/use-
our-methods/>

> _Have you shipped any of the ideas in [2]?_

Yup. We're currently building IHeartCode (turned out to be the most popular).
A rough prototype lives at <http://iheartpy.com>

~~~
diwank
It's only a few weeks since we began working on it. And we've been working on
the backend all this while. The design has received a wide spectrum of
opinion: some seem to love it, others find it confusing. I think we'll
redesign it once we get the backend finished.

We're filling in the meat right now! There's a lot of work to do and we hope
to get things in shape so we can call it a beautiful pig and go from there.

Thanks for the feedback though. Would love to bug you some more if you don't
mind. :)

~~~
revorad
There are only two things that you could do that would help me learn Python:
create and curate good learning material. When it comes to education, I think
the highest value even today is created by making good new content, not more
tools.

~~~
diwank
> _create good new learning material and curate good existing material_

Great advice there and I totally agree with you. In fact, we are looking into
incorporating great Python tutorials in the public domain to supplement our
content.

Actually, we took the interactive approach because to people with little
background in programming, the biggest deterrence is fear of breaking things
on their PC. On iheartpy.com they can easily try out basic commands without
that fear.

~~~
diwank
@revorad: Thanks for the links. I liked the Ladder of Abstraction.

On a different note, this discussion is slightly off-topic. Can I shoot you an
email some time? (If you don't mind.) Also, I'm really sleepy now (yawn!)

~~~
revorad
Yeah of course, email's in profile.

------
michael_fine
I think this is one of the major points covered in the Lean startup. In
essence, you start with your idea, and sometimes after you get customer
feedback you learn that maybe one of your features should be your product. For
example, @Flickr actually started that way. Flickr was at first a social
gaming site, but when they implementing photosharing the demand for that
feature was so overwhelming they made it their whole product. If you'd like to
talk about your idea with me, feel free to email me, which is in my profile.

------
kappaknight
I usually start a project with a hard launch date. We decide what we want to
build, and then decide which 80% we can strip out to meet this launch date.
You may not have to start with a hard date, but if your runway is limited, it
may help.

Either way, this will help you visualize the minimal viable product and you
can go from there.

~~~
chris_dcosta
I agree with this. A hard launch date helps to give you focus, and decide what
can realistically be achieved by that date.

It doesn't mean that your other features are discarded, it just means that you
can get to where you need to be at the right time.

One other thing it does too is give you an opportunity to stand back after the
deadline has passed and look at the project with fresh eyes.

For example, at the outset you aim at getting the ting up and running. Then
once you are there, switch hats and become a user. Is the thing doing what you
need? Are there bit's you don't actually like? Why don't you like them? Would
one of your missing features solve the problem? Or, do you just drop that
irritating feature?

I think this can only happen if you set the date, execute, and then step back.

------
paulsutter
Discuss the ideas with other smart guys. I've always found that when I think
about an idea by myself, I can overcomplicate it and tend to underestimate how
much work it will be. Sharing the ideas with other smart guys can counteract
this.

Your question is super good. This may be the hardest part of coming up with a
new business.

~~~
diminium
What do you do when the other smart guys want to make it even more
complicated? - or worse, add even more features!!!

~~~
quadlock
keep asking yourself "self, what is the minimum form of this idea that will
provide value?"

------
andrewhillman
Keep it dead simple and do not add any extra features until users start to ask
for them. Let the user base guide future product development. Put up a
feedback link on every page and be responsive, but do not build every
requested feature. Just the ones that make sense. It's a challenge that takes
discipline.

------
debacle
Talk to someone about it, who will act as a good lens/mirror for distilling it
into its core use.

