
MoviePass is shutting down permanently and liquidating in bankruptcy - rmason
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/29/media/moviepass-bankruptcy/index.html
======
degenerate
I signed up for 2 months in late 2018 and later tried to cancel, which was
only handled by emailing their support team ( _no phone number, no cancel
button on the website, no way to remove my billing details_ ). I emailed them
as instructed, but never got anything more than autoreplies from their
ticketing system, and kept re-contacting them over the next 2 weeks, even from
a separate email incase it was a problem on my end. They finally replied
(once) after 2 weeks, and cancelled my account, but had already re-charged me
in the meantime.

Thus, I contacted them again to remove the second charge, and never heard from
them again. I had to resort to initiating a chargeback.

I knew they were a dead duck after that experience.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Sirius/XM has disgusting tactics, maybe not THAT bad, but I think it's part of
their business model and it's been working for them for years. Although I
question their longevity at some point.

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nikk1
I was always an avid movie-goer but the fact that movie tickets were $12-$14
was absurd. Any time I saw more than 1 movie per month I felt guilty for
blowing so much cash at the theater. When MoviePass came along I saw around 30
movies in the course of a year. It was incredible. It gave me the oportunity
to watch some new releases that I otherwise would not have considered watching
at all. Some of those movies unexpectedly blew me away.

I appreciate what MoviePass did. They elevated the expactations of the average
movie-goer when it came to ticket prices. They also created more opportunity
for low-budget, foreign, and independent films to reach a wider audience. Of
course $10/month for unlimited movies in the theater is not a sustainable
business model. But now other theaters have similar subscription services
(AMC's plan is ~$25/month plus concession discounts) which is still reasonable
for a frequent movie-goer. MoviePass had a positive impact on the industry and
hopefully the movie going experience will continue to improve as they continue
to compete with streaming services.

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h2odragon
Was it a business, or a stock swindle, from the start? I recall seeing
commentary that said "swindle" early on and i never saw anything to make me
doubt it. I wonder who won, and how big?

~~~
listenallyall
The business model was flawed, in that they were over-optimistic about getting
theater partners to buy in and sell discounted tickets to MoviePass. $10 for
unlimited films anytime? Not going to work. But $15-18/month for unlimited
matinees, or Mon-Thu, or any film 3+ weeks old? Those models are absolutely
viable, and would provide revenue and attendance boosts for theater chains who
partnered with MP.

Worth noting that AMC, the theater chain which was most vocal and aggressive
in dismissing MoviePass, has seen its stock fall by 80% since early 2017 to an
all-time low. CINE, an international conglomerate which owns Regal, is at a
5-year low.

~~~
Ancalagon
Anecdote: I paid $18 for a single movie ticket (no peripherals) at an AMC not
even two months ago. To be fair, the theater was packed so they must have been
doing something right, but I couldn't believe the price increase even over the
last year in movie ticket prices. I guess AMC's downfall strategy is similar
to that of AT&T's.

~~~
Rebelgecko
AMC's version of moviepass seems a lot more sustainable than Moviepass

~~~
listenallyall
Disagree - for one, see AMC's profit and revenue trends, easily summed up in
the stark decline in the stock price. AMC's program is flawed in that it
allows (encourages?) its members to use the theater's most valuable inventory,
i.e. seeing Star Wars in 3-D or Dolby or IMAX on opening night. The people who
joined likely made that decision based on the fact the the membership cost
less than their typical ticket spend, thus it costs AMC in lost revenue. Plus
the costs of advertising it, administering it, etc.

~~~
scarface74
Movie theaters have never made much money from ticket sales. They make most of
their money from concession sales and to a lesser extent advertising before
the movie starts.

Also, for rev share purposes , they count each ticket sold via the
subscription no matter what at $8.99

~~~
listenallyall
Ticket revenue is the majority of total revenue, while concessions have a much
higher margin. For the last quarter with published results, AMC's gross profit
on exhibition exceeded that of F&B. ==>
[http://investor.amctheatres.com/Cache/1001258324.PDF?O=PDF&T...](http://investor.amctheatres.com/Cache/1001258324.PDF?O=PDF&T=&Y=&D=&FID=1001258324&iid=4171292)

MoviePass sent additional people to the theater --> additional concession
sales + additional ticket sales

AMC A-List customers occupy prime seats that would have likely been sold
anyway --> no effect on concessions, reduced ticket revenue

~~~
scarface74
They also said

 _Based on an average monthly frequency of 2.40x for our A-List members in the
third quarter, their associated full-price bring-along guest attendance, their
food and beverage spend and the price increases in the first quarter, we
believe the A-List program was profitable in the third quarter and nine-months
ended September 30, 2019 compared to our estimated results if the program had
not existed. A-List membership levels continue to exceed our expectations
despite our price increase and competitive offerings._

~~~
listenallyall
Lol, you've tried to defend AMC before on other threads. Read between the
lines. "We believe" is about the lowest level of confidence one could
attribute to a statement like this. No data, no methodology, no measurements.
It's equivalent to "we hope" or "we guess" or "we really need this to be
true."

The company's stock has fallen by 80+%. Management is under extraordinary
pressure to defend their major decisions, including the rollout of A-List and
the rejection of partnering with MoviePass. OF COURSE management is going to
_claim_ their decisions were correct, but they are offering ZERO hard data or
evidence to that end.

~~~
scarface74
As opposed to the data that you offered? Are you claiming that AMC is lying to
investors - if so, you should report them to the FTC.

But it’s amazing that you believe some numbers from AMC but not others _from
your same citations_

Well, obviously Movie Pass didn’t have a great business model...

~~~
listenallyall
"We believe" is AMC's hedge against actually lying. Maybe they do actually
believe it. Irrelevant. Any 3rd party shouldn't believe it, certainly without
any evidence.

2.4 visits isn't evidence. I believe the number, but it is meaningless on its
own. How many of those tickets are for sold out shows? What pct are utilizing
free upgrades (IMAX, Dolby, etc)? How much did these individuals spend prior
to membership? What's the average concession spend vs non-members? What are
the admin and advertising costs?

~~~
scarface74
At 2.5 movies a month at $24/month, the ticket price is $9.60. A quick Google
search shows that the average price of an IMAX ticket is $19.60

During the first two or three weeks, the distributor gets 70% of the ticket
price. Worse case, if they see 2.5 IMAX movies on average, AMC would have lost
$7.50 in gross profit from a stubs + user.

Since kids can’t get a subscription and a lot of the blockbusters are geared
toward families, the kids would not only pay full price, they are also more
likely to want concessions.

As far as the concession spend, its simple well known marketing psychology
that when you get something for “free” you’re more likely to spend more when
you get there. It’s an affect that has been seen with gift cards, Groupon
deals, etc.

But when it comes to admin cost, ticket purchasing online and redemption via
the handheld devices at the movie was pre-existing infrastructure they had
before the Stubs+. How much harder do you think it really is to add logic to
account for a stubs+ member is allowed three movies a week?

Most of the advertising is done in the theatre.

------
dang
Related from a few months ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20966027](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20966027)

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BillMcClare
Sad story!

