

Kendo UI Core - stonys
https://github.com/telerik/kendo-ui-core

======
avenger123
The previous GPLv3 was the complete package.

This change actually removes features that the GPLv3 had. In particular, the
main one and the reason most companies would want to buy a commercial license
now is the Grid component. I understand their complete package will have
ASP.NET MVC bindings but those aren't necessary.

So, in a way, this is really bad news for open source projects as it
effectively takes away a component that is at the heart of why Kendo UI may be
used instead of jQuery UI.

They have in effect basically screwed over completely open source projects.
For them the only change is that they lose functionality.

But, Telerik is a for-proit company and they've always struggled with the
licensing for this as they didn't know how it would fit with their commercial
goals. I don't think they've got it right now.

Personally, I see no reason to use this even now. jQuery UI is not maintained
by a commercial company and is just as good. I can be confident that the
license for jQuery UI isn't going to be messed around with based on new
corporate goals. The Kendo UI versus jQuery UI site does a good job of doing
the comparison but without the grid component, its a hard sell.

EDIT: I do want to add that overall this is great news. I'm pointing out the
nuances of this decision. For people already using this and don't need the
other components or can find substitutes, it makes sense to continue to use it
and not have to buy licenses. Also, I hope Telerik somehow addresses this and
not ignore it.

~~~
Walkman
I prefer a library with Apache2 over GPLv3 even with less features, because I
can use it everywhere. More use --> more contributions.

Commercial interest in a library makes it more appealing for me, because it
means there is money for long term development/maintenance, and I think it's
much more likely that it will be not abandoned compared to an alternative open
source project without commercial interest in it. Ok, jquery UI is huge and it
will not go away, but if I want to go with a library similar to Kendo, I would
choose Kendo over that!

~~~
beefsack
I can't even wrap my head around why someone would care about fully permissive
licenses over GPL for front end JavaScript libraries, everyone gets access to
your source when you serve it to them anyway.

~~~
btown
Not necessarily. There are many rich client applications (say, for instance,
an in-browser multimedia editor or webmail client) whose JS code might be
nontrivial and distributed only in minified/obfuscated form, for the company
to maintain a competitive advantage over imitators. In that case, those
companies would not want to use GPL'ed JS libraries, since they would then be
required to provide the JS source code of the entire rest of their client in
unminified form.

Also, there are statements like these, from the primary developer of Ext.js
which went GPL for a while a few years ago:

> Suppose you have an index.php that includes Ext JS. According to the FSF, in
> that case index.php would be also under GPL since it is using ext. Since it
> must be GPL, it's source must be distributed. Since it is GPL, the "viral"
> effect of GPL is now in effect and any thing that uses index.php (if
> anything) on the serverside would also fall under the GPL. (Note: Note this
> is a pretty gray area)

However, this is the exact opposite of what the FSF's FAQ on the GPL
_actually_ says.

> A company is running a modified version of a GPL'ed program on a web site.
> Does the GPL say they must release their modified sources? (#UnreleasedMods)

> The GPL permits anyone to make a modified version and use it without ever
> distributing it to others. What this company is doing is a special case of
> that. Therefore, the company does not have to release the modified sources.
> It is essential for people to have the freedom to make modifications and use
> them privately, without ever publishing those modifications. However,
> putting the program on a server machine for the public to talk to is hardly
> “private” use, so it would be legitimate to require release of the source
> code in that special case. Developers who wish to address this might want to
> use the GNU Affero GPL for programs designed for network server use.

Now, if I took these two passages to my corporate lawyer and asked him whether
we should use Ext.js with closed-source _server-side_ software even if it
might open us up to a lawsuit from Ext.js due to their interpretation of the
contract, he would take one look at me and smack me on the head for suggesting
that we open ourselves up to something like that.

EDIT: Sources.

[https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-
faq.html#UnreleasedMods](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-
faq.html#UnreleasedMods)

[http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?33096-License-
Cha...](http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?33096-License-
Change/page3&p=156236#post156236)

~~~
j_s
I think I will shoot the EFF an email asking for an update on that now that
GPL3 is trying to accomplish the same thing as the Affero license (anti-
Tivoization). That '#UnreleasedMods' section appears to have been written for
GPL2.

~~~
btown
Please let HN know if you learn anything! There's so much FUD in this space,
it's very difficult to know what one can use safely.

------
stonys
Although not all features are included in Kendo UI Core. Official Telerik
press release can be found here: [http://www.telerik.com/company/press-
releases/2014/04/16/tel...](http://www.telerik.com/company/press-
releases/2014/04/16/telerik-open-sources-world-s-largest-library-of-ui-tools-
and-javascript-framework-features-with-telerik-kendo-ui-core)

~~~
tsenkov
Disclaimer: - ex-teleriker here.

Awesome news. I think I read 40+ widgets somewhere this morning and in this
press-release it's 38+. Anyways, it's still great.

I hope they will transfer in the OSS packet the grid and the treeview, soon.
(nice tripwire :P)

------
d1plo1d
First Kendo impression: Unnecessarily verbose docs, completely bloated @ 1.4MB
of js minified, super-monolithic, probably a royal pain to use with angular or
ember.

No way in hell I'm using this.

------
angryasian
I'm sort of confused on pricing.

[http://www.telerik.com/purchase.aspx](http://www.telerik.com/purchase.aspx)

Is the pro widgets like the editor and tree view available at the $699 price
point ?

~~~
avenger123
Yes, that's right.

The UI for XXXX which start at $999 are for the ASP.NET MVC, PHP, JSP, etc.
bindings.

I would suspect most of the money that Telerik makes are from the binding
licences (Microsoft likely the biggest).

------
pingec
I love their Kendo UI Web widgets, especially the Grid, quite powerful:
[http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-
ui/web/grid/index.html](http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/web/grid/index.html)

~~~
kelmop
[https://datatables.net/](https://datatables.net/) I am not sure if this is
the original base for Kendo UI's Grid. But this is great.

~~~
monkey_slap
This has always been my go-to for data grids

