
Ask HN: I just got fired - throwaway78901
I&#x27;m a contributor here but using a throwaway for obvious reasons.<p>I was fired without notice a few days ago. The initial shock and hurt have worn off, I think, but I am still in deep processing mode. I was very unhappy at this job, and I believe it became obvious to management. I was halfway out the door myself, actively interviewing at other companies, but getting rejected like this is still a blow. I wanted to leave on my own terms.<p>As I reflect on my experiences and the direction I want to head in, I was wondering if any of you all have been fired and have advice on how to cope in the coming days, months, years. I&#x27;m relatively young (29) and have a long career (I hope) ahead of me.<p>I&#x27;ve applied for UI, I&#x27;ve told a couple very close people (but not anyone else, I still don&#x27;t know how to confront the shame and tell people in my circles). I&#x27;m going to hit the job search hard. But what else can I do to minimize the damage and maximize future success?
======
chatmasta
Most people are focusing on career advice, but it sounds like you’re also
looking for some psychological reassurance. In that case, the best advice I
can give is to avoid letting this affect your view of yourself. It’s easy to
forget that we are more than our careers or our jobs. How will you feel about
this firing 50 years from now?

This is also why it’s inportant to have a balanced lifestyle. If the only
focus of your life is your career, then getting fired is devastating. But if
you have other things in your life — hobbies, friends, a relationship — you
have those to fall back to when something goes wrong with work.

~~~
throwaway78901
> This is also why it’s inportant to have a balanced lifestyle. If the only
> focus of your life is your career, then getting fired is devastating.

Amen. I made a concerted effort to round out my life outside of work because
I've been so unhappy there--joined a sports league, made friends from lots of
industries (not just tech), new relationship...these were quite hard given my
introverted nature but man am I thankful I have them now. Thanks for your
input.

------
roksprok
A few thoughts:

Unless you were fired for misconduct, its usually better to say you were laid
off. Its worth figuring out what information the company will give out. If you
didn't leave on good terms, have a friend call and ask for employment
verification. If it was a legitimate company based in the US, its likely
they'll give dates of employment and nothing else.

Get some thoughts down in writing, especially what went wrong/what you could
have done better. Its pretty common to be unhappy at a job and wanting to
leave, so its good to figure out how to do that without making it too obvious.

Don't be shy about reaching out to people who still work at the company you
left. It always feels more awkward to you than it really is.

By far the best thing you can do to minimize damage is get another job as soon
as possible. It's really easy to get in a rut after a setback and get
discouraged, procrastinate, then before you know it a few months have gone by
and you have a 'gap' on your resume to explain.

It's tough, but remember that this exact situation happens to way more people
than it seems. Its just someone nobody brings up so it seems rare. You'll get
through it.

~~~
shaftway
> have a friend call and ask for employment verification

One of the magic incantations I've heard of here is "is {X} eligible for
rehire?"

It's worth throwing in to see what their response is.

~~~
itronitron
I'm not sure I understand that, can someone elaborate?

------
JSeymourATL
> getting rejected like this is still a blow. I wanted to leave on my own
> terms.

Do you have any previous Managers/Superiors who can serve as a professional
reference and vouch for your skills & expertise? Was there a previous position
where you delivered superior work?

Do not lie, do not misrepresent your situation.

Be candid-- Tell them you we're fired out of the blue. But your job engagement
level had likely suffered when you realized the role/company wasn't a good
strategic fit.

Confidently add - 'My references will tell you that I'm a trustworthy,
thoroughly professional, known as Top-Notch Developer who thrives on
delivering out-of-the-box solutions for tough problems'.

*You'll be surprised to know some of the most intelligent/productive/impactful talent tend to get fired at least once in their career.

Manage your inner-game, move on!

------
AnimalMuppet
First, go ahead and mourn... for a little while. A day, a week if you need to.
Then be done. Time to move on.

Next thing: Look honestly at whether any of this was your fault. Was your work
inadequate? Did you have conflicts with your co-workers? You need to be honest
with yourself. And if there's something that you need to change going forward,
think through how you're going to change things (for the sake of the long
career that you still have ahead of you).

I've been laid off. It wasn't me. They killed the project, gave everybody two
weeks pay instead of notice, and escorted us out the door. It was kind of a
shock. I stopped somewhere on my way home and cried for a few minutes. Then I
took the rest of the day off, then started working on job hunting.

You feel like this is going to ruin your career. It's not. It may make it
somewhat more difficult to find the next job, but not impossible. After that,
if you do decent work at that next job, nobody will ever care again about you
getting fired from this one.

------
b3b0p
I was part of a layoff once. At first I was kind of in shock. As soon as I
started walking out the building I actually felt happy and excited. I saw it
as a new opportunity and beginning of a new adventure. I have no idea where I
might end up. It's made me open my eyes and mind to moving to other cities,
learning technologies I'm not familiar with, applying for and considering
other positions and the types of companies I'm willing to work for and meet
new people.

Look at it as an opportunity. A new adventure and be open minded. That's what
I have done and am actually feeling much happier. Find something you want to
do and no longer are miserable every day doing.

The only part I do not like is the interview process that many companies have
developed for software engineers. It can be extremely stressful and
frustrating, but I guess you have to play the game.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I remember that feeling! I opened my car windows, turned the radio on - it
happened to be playing "Takin Care of Business" which was perfect! Turned it
up and cruised around town for an hour, happy.

------
grad_ml
Take a deep breath. Everything is alright and you have a bright future ahead.
Getting fired is same as you leaving the job, without having a offer in hand,
discarding any emotional turbulence. Keep applying for jobs and very soon
you'll get a job, you always desired for. I hope you have enough cash to keep
you covered, spend money with prudence. And smile, things are gonna be great
for you, very soon.

------
cookiecaper
Getting fired from a bad gig is a blessing, especially if you've already been
interviewing elsewhere.

If your company senses the vibe of disinterest, and especially if they think
it's so serious that you're interviewing elsewhere, it's not entirely unusual
for management to move toward a dismissal before the employee can quit. Like
you, they want the imminent departure to occur on their own terms, even if
that can mean paying out some severance, etc.

As another poster stated, now you are going to get some severance and other
benefits that can help ease your transition to a better thing, so that's
great. It is nearly always financially better to get laid off/fired than to
quit voluntarily.

Don't worry about explaining it away. If other companies ask why you left
without having something new first, just say that you and management didn't
see eye to eye, and that you want to focus on finding a place that's a good
match, because it's not worth wasting time at a place that isn't a good match.
This is all totally true and valid, and it will serve to flatter the company
if you end up accepting an offer. It also projects an image of financial
security that may help in salary negotiations.

I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't hurt to be beaten to the punch, even
when it's what you really wanted anyway. But hang in there and don't let it
get you down. The emotional sting will pass and you'll be able to appreciate
the brightness of the better future soon. :)

------
mchannon
A couple of thoughts:

• Have you considered that your being unhappy with the job was an intentional
act on the part of others? Getting people to leave on their own is
substantially easier on the long-term financials of a company (no unemployment
payments, less legal liability). I'm amazed, for how many people feel like the
honeymoon is over at their jobs, at how few are aware that this is completely
intentional for money reasons.

• What damage? It's rare that I've seen anybody doing the hiring care about
the detailed circumstances of why you left your last job. Why you want to work
at the new place is far more important to them. It's a seller's market right
now, and you need to stop worrying and start doing.

In three months (provided you do enough legwork in that time) you'll come to
the conclusion that they were doing you a favor. Assuming you weren't a
contractor (and you were actually fired), apply for unemployment benefits
immediately to help you weather the storm.

~~~
switch007
> ... an intentional act on the part of others? Getting people to leave on
> their own is substantially easier on the long-term financials of a company

A great point and it absolutely happens.

------
joezydeco
To maximize future success, learn from this lesson. If you are unhappy with
the job and are looking, you need to try as hard as you can to keep a happy
disposition and _don 't signal a thing_ until you have a new job offer in hand
and are ready to quit.

Why does it matter? Because now you need to find a job, and your future
employer knows this. They will now have an advantage in salary negotiations
compared to the alternative, where you have an existing job and can walk away
if their offer isn't good enough.

A secondary task is to keep your ear to the ground and learn when a major
event, like a layoff or firing, is imminent. It's not as hard to detect as you
think.

------
throwawayhnhn
I was laid off too last week. Here is wha advice I have been given by HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240389](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240389)

------
mattmanser
This reply is to do with dealing with the psychological effects of feeling
rejected and feeling like you failed, rather than legal or job hunting.

I got made redundant at one of my previous companies, in a similar boat as
you, unhappy at the time.

A lot of the other employees were very surprised because I was known as a
high-performer and before I'd moved teams was a lot of people's go-to guy for
getting shit down. I think they weren't really seeing how much of a 'handful'
I'd become for management.

It took a long, long time for me to really be ok with it. Like a decade. I
would very much recommend you deal with it now, and not let it fester like I
did.

As I say, I did it badly, but if it happened again, I'd try and say these
things to myself:

1\. It's not a reflection on your skill, it's a relationship thing. Try and
realise this. You split up, and the reasons can have nothing to do with your
technical skills, your interpersonal skills, your politics skills, whatever.
It can be simply that you didn't fit and eventually that became more of a
problem than all the other benefits you did offer.

2\. Just because you got fired doesn't make all the work you ever did there
bad. You did some great things. Maybe try and reflect and write down all the
great things you did do.

3\. You already wanted to leave. You'd already decided it was over, they just
realised it. You ALREADY wanted to leave. It was already over.

4\. Try not to burn bridges, either through spite or through inaction. Try and
keep in contact with people you valued in the business, as friends and as
future useful networking contacts. _That might even include the people who
fired you_. I sometimes wish I could ask one of my old bosses, who I highly
valued, for advice. Yes, it might take time, maybe a year, maybe two, but
don't feel like you can't say hi, even after a break. I ultimately lost good
friends over it because I felt so awkward about it.

5\. It's business, you should not feel any shame. It's simply business.
Realistically speaking, you simply got out-manoeuvred. Maybe you
subconsciously advertised that you were moving on, and so they reacted in a
fairly predictable manner.

6\. The abruptness of it doesn't mean anything, it is simply easier for them.
As a business they have that control. Don't read anything at all into the
abruptness. They might have spent multiple meetings agonising over what to do
with you, but you'll never hear or see about that.

7\. They're only a bunch of humans, they probably made many mistakes in
managing you, in nurturing you and in keeping you happy.

------
oldsklgdfth
It is definitely stressful when you don't have control over events in your
life and I can understand your shock. However, it sounds like you are in a
faily good place.

I have a friend that worked in an unforgivingly toxic and disfunctional
environment, but was determined to finish the job. He was not interviewing or
even looking for jobs. One day, he got so fed up with things that he quit. A
few weeks later they laid off half the team with severance.

In the grand scheme of things you ended up with a best case scenario. Now go
on and find work that you are happy with

------
jdowner
I have had the same experience. The environment was toxic, I was actively
interviewing, and the company knew I was not happy. I was preparing the give
my resignation the next day, as it turned out, but they pulled the trigger
first. Regardless, like you, I wanted to leave on my own terms.

But keep things in perspective. Put shame to the side because that's not going
to help. If you are a frontend developer, there is no shortage of job
opportunities for you. Keep going with the interviewing process, and move on.

Best of luck!

------
dmach
Relatively young? You're very young. If you're not married or tied up with a
mortgage yet I would travel for a few months to a year while it's still ok to
use hostels. You can always apply for positions from abroad, develop some
proactive skill like using orgmode or meditation and you get the kind of
experiences that would put a permanent smile on your face whatever job you
come back to. It's also a good excuse for being out of a job.

~~~
jeromesalimao
Out of curiosity, at what age do you think it stops being "ok" to stay at
hostels?

~~~
JBlue42
Depends. Some hostels have strict age limits. Most are a bit wary of older
looking travelers but I've definitely run into over 40-ish people in them. OP
is going to be fine. Not to mention, most hostels have a rooms you can rent
and in a lot of places, like Asia, you'll end up with your private room for
cheap anyway in many places (Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, in my experience).

------
makecheck
In some sense, being fired when you were already interviewing may be a net
advantage if it was a layoff with severance package, etc. Companies don’t owe
you anything if you quit, which you would have had to do if one of the other
jobs made a quick offer.

~~~
throwaway78901
Yep, financially I may end up better off in the short term, between the
severance and unemployment. But it wasn't a layoff, it was a termination. So
that is going to be a lot harder to deal with for explaining to future
employers I would think.

~~~
JamesVI
Your severance agreement probably includes a non-disparagement clause (you
can't bad mouth the company after you sign). That clause should be mutual
(they can't criticize you either in public or to a future employer). Even
without that in place, most companies will do nothing more than confirm length
of employment and (maybe) job title to avoid a law suite.

When you apply for future jobs you are under no obligation to go into the
details of your departure from this one. I wouldn't recommend lying, but you
can certainly phrase it differently than "I got fired". Especially since you
were already looking for other jobs, you can legitimately say that you felt
the role was a poor fit and you started looking for something new.

~~~
JBlue42
>non-disparagement clause

I've had to sign one of these to get cashed out after a company-wide lay off
before. I ran it past a lawyer friend and he says they do not hold up in
court.

Saying that, there are plenty of ways to frame the situation without being
overly negative about the former company or yourself.

------
pm24601
I have been fired from a few jobs - some of them because I was experiencing an
undiagnosed medical issue.

Don't over think this.

Don't use coy words to hide this. It just invites interviewers to drill down
into the "why did you leave?" question.

Be boldly honest if asked: "I was having difficulties in believing in the new
direction of the company."

"I was experiencing the stress of a new baby keeping me up at night."

As an interviewer, the things I care about are:

1\. Is the same issue likely to repeat itself if I hire you;

2\. Was the situation a sign of anything that is going to cause a lawsuit (
i.e. sexual harassment )?

3\. Do you have anger management issues?

4\. Do you have the ability to recognize and correct your own bad behavior? Or
do you blame others?

------
Jeremy1026
I've been laid off twice in 2017, still unemployed from the 2nd one. Not going
to lie, its tough. Just have to keep your head down and keep focused on
something. I've taken the time to brush up on new skills.

------
1ba9115454
I've been fired lots of times.

Sometimes I ended up in a better position earning more money.

"I still don't know how to confront the shame"

There's nothing to be ashamed of. Tell people you're moving on to look for new
challenges.

------
andrei_says_
Allow yourself to process the grief, humiliation, rage etc. if you are not in
regular therapy, find a friend you can honestly vent out to and who can listen
to you with an attitude of “these are thoughts and emotions that need to get
out so they don’t fester. They in no way define this person”

If you skip this step, you risk losing energy and cognitive resources to these
unresolved emotions.

------
zpatel
\- Find any weakness in your skills or communications and see if you can
improve those.

-Believe in yourself and do not give up, you will get a decent job eventually, but then in tech space, you will need to deal with all kinds of people, so hard to be satisfied always.

------
JBlue42
Hang in there. There are some great replies here that I hope you take to
heart, especially the psychological side of it. It sounds like you haven't
been through this before (it still sucks regardless of how many times it
happens).

Some practical questions:

1) Were you fired or laid off? There is a difference and it especially makes a
difference when you apply for unemployment. How did HR or your manager frame
it?

2) UI. I see you already applied which is great. The process is different in
every state (assuming you're American here so correct me if I'm wrong). In CA,
it takes about 2-3 weeks after you apply to get your first check.

3) Follow what the others said about confirming what they are going to say
about you if someone calls for references. Most companies now cover their
asses by only giving dates of employment, even if you were were a great
employee.

4) If you made good friends at the company, they're probably wondering what
happened to you as well. Be sure to reach out, go for a drink or two, etc. I
still have drinks and am good friends with people from various jobs throughout
the years, some of which ended like this. When I was laid off from my last
job, my personal phone and email blew up because the only thing the company
said was "X is no longer with us" in an email

5) Give yourself a certain amount of time to look over and reflect on what
went right and what went wrong but then cut it off and don't dwell. There are
probably mistakes made on both sides that you can learn from.

6) Go ahead and get your resume out there, LinkedIn spiffied up, and Indeed
profile updated. Know what you want from your next position too that you
didn't like about this one (see #5). The good part about working a shitty job
and these experiences is that it teaches you what you don't want in life and
work.

Personal stuff:

I thought mattmanser wrote a great reply for this, as well as some others.

1) Have you had time off in a while or did you sacrifice some of that for the
job? If you want to take a short break and clear your head and heart, now is a
great time to do so. I was let go in July and wish in August or September I
had taken at least a week or two elsewhere to decompress.

2) You mentioned shame. There's no shame here. This shit happens to a lot of
people, especially in this more cut-throat day and age. You're friends, if
they truly are friends, are going to empathize with you, let you talk it out,
and hopefully buy you a round of beers or three.

As someone else said, it's business. Sounds like if you were laid off you're
in an at-will state. Think of it this way: Employers expect us to give them at
least two weeks notice but they usually have policies of laying off people
immediately and sending out the door that day. It's an unbalanced power
relationship.

3) If you may not realize it until too late, but it's easy to get really down-
down and time will slip away. Nothing wrong with sleeping in the first day or
two off but if you regularly find yourself just staying in bed all day,
overthinking things, that's starting to trend to minor depression. Be sure to
get outside, exercise, see people, etc. It sounds like you already have that
going for you.

If that shit does take hold, and even in general, I highly recommend this book
called "How to Be Miserable" that uses counter-examples to make you think
about things. I bought it after coming across the CGP-Grey video that
discusses it:

Video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o)

Book: [https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Miserable-Strategies-
Already/d...](https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Miserable-Strategies-
Already/dp/1626254060)

4) You were already unhappy so see this as an opportunity, a possibility, vs a
negative. Work on a project you've always wanted to start but didn't have the
time or energy. Work on your job applications and/or with a recruiter for a
certain amount of time then block out time to be creative. Who knows, you
might create a job for yourself and then only you can fire you!

5) Overall, good luck! It sucks but you will come out stronger for it. There
are always options out there. It can be a struggle to stay positive and
confident. The pain and anger of this will pop out of nowhere at times but
just realize what's happening and let it go.

I've been out of work for six months now, some of it due to being picky about
my next job, some of it with a month or so missing because of aforementioned
depression, and now, my UI has run out and I have about two months to make
something happen here.

But, for once, I'm really fucking positive about my future. I'm spending a
part of the day applying to work and other parts of the day learning new
things that will help out in the short to medium term. If shit doesn't work
out here, my backup plan is to say fuck it and go to Taiwan and teach English
for a year where I can save money as well as continue to pursue my learning.

You always have options it's just hard to know what they are sometimes. Keep
talking to people, going to meetups, participating in life. You're going to be
fine!

