
California Governor Vetoes Statewide 5G Antenna Standards - ashitlerferad
https://www.wirelessweek.com/news/2017/10/california-governor-vetoes-statewide-5g-antenna-standards
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CommentCard
"Some critics also reportedly expressed concerns about radiation emitted by
thousands of small antennas." When is this going to stop? It feels like we're
going backwards in terms of people understanding science.

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timthelion
What lack of understanding is there though? We already know that doctors are
unable to preform reproducible science, so we cannot trust them to prove that
cell-phones are safe. Physics tells us that cell-phone radiation enters the
body and interacts with cells. Of course, the panic that often accompanies
such uncertainty is irrational and unscientific, but the steadfast belief that
the radiation can do no harm is equally so.

[http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2012/ph250/lu1/](http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2012/ph250/lu1/)

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WillPostForFood
There is some science we aren't still worried about reproducing.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-
square_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law)

The focus on micro towers is misguided because the possible health threat is
from the handset, and more micro towers means phones can operate at lower
power, which would be a good thing for the worriers.

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timthelion
Doen't the inverse square law show that more towers closer to the ground, even
transmitting at a lower wattage, could be worse than a few towers high up and
far away?

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WillPostForFood
Just think about your handset, not the towers. The handset has to broadcast to
those towers, at a power they can receive. As you hold that handset, to you
want it to be broadcasting at low power to a nearby tower, or higher power to
a tower further away? And who says that old tower is further away? It is going
to be close to someone, even if it isn't you.

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spankalee
Sounds like Brown just didn't like this version of the bill:

> “​There is something of real value in having a process that results in
> extending this ​innovative technology rapidly and efficiently," Brown wrote
> in his veto message. "Nevertheless, I believe the interest which localities
> have in managing rights of way requires a more balanced solution than the
> one achieved in this bill.”

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baybal2
I am puzzled again by standards of American law making.

Why telecoms have rights to mount 4g equipment on public property, but not 5g
(which is not even a standard yet?)

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dhruvrrp
Senate Bill 649, which passed the California Legislature last month, would
have restricted local governments' abilities to block antenna placement and
would cap the rates that they could charge telecom companies for installations
on public property, such as street lamps or traffic lights.

It feels like it’s more about telecom companies trying to restrict the rent
local governments can charge that is a bigger deal here.

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mcny
I am not a fan of telecoms but I can't oppose then on this one. Removing
restrictions allows telecoms options which lets rent to go lower, no?

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timthelion
But this isn't removing restrictions, this is adding a new restriction, a
positive type of restriction which FORCES local governments to rent. No one
should be FORCED to rent their property.

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csdreamer7
Government owned property, public property has a duty to serve the public.
Capping rates and allowing antennas in certain areas provides competition in
the broadband market which serves the public interest.

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mcguire
" _Capping rates and allowing antennas in certain areas provides competition
in the broadband market..._ "

I don't believe I've seen an argument that market interference, "capping
rates", is good for the free market recently.

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int_19h
It depends on how you define "free market", exactly. The definition that is
popular nowadays originated with libertarians, and equates it with lack of
government regulation, regardless of anything else. But the traditional
definition also includes monopolies and other factors that stifle competition,
and from that perspective, it's entirely possible for a market to be more free
_because_ of government intervention (e.g. monopoly busting).

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csdreamer7
Indeed, setting certain rules can unify a market and reduce transaction costs.
Calling a city, negotiating for rights to use public property, etc.

Setting caps can also reduce a municipality desire to give a 'monopoly', an
absolute monopoly where you can't get comparable service elsewhere, to one
provider in exchange for generous royalty rates.

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suyash
This is what I love about living in California. Gov is way ahead in terms of
public safety and environment safety standards. Great job Gov. Brown.

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sanguy
5G has proven to cause a increase in tumor rates in male rats during testing.
So I understand some desire to block this technology until better understood.

Cancer is increasing at an alarming rate - could be from many many factors but
worth understanding more before just allowing wide scale deployment.

I'd rather live with 4G versus 5G and cancer...

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viraptor
> 5G has proven to cause a increase in tumor rates in male rats during
> testing.

Claims like that would really benefit from a link to the specific study you're
talking about.

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pragmar
I think this is the study on rats sanguy is referring to:

[https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/](https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/)

The American Cancer Society called it a "paradigm shift" in our understanding
of the effects of non-ionizing radiation, FWIW.

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torgoguys
The results are rushed partial results, yes with peer review, but probably
spurious, as noted by at least one of the reviewers. The reviewers didn't have
benefit of well organized data either, muddying their process.

In fact, if you look at the various studied rat groups, and take the reported
results at face value, you would note that the male rats exposed to the most
cell phone radiation had the longest lifespan, greater than the controls
(which had curiously low survival rates compared to the norm in lab rats too,
btw, further muddying the findings).

Not a junky study exactly, but the analysis of the data is problematic.

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oculusthrift
then can we at least wait until further research is done?

