
How gut microbes are joining the fight against cancer - digital55
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05208-8
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koolhead17
I got to know about microbiome sometimes last year.

Spent good amount of time on reading about it, some books I read:

* 10% Human: How Your Body’s Microbes Hold the Key to Health and Happiness ([https://www.amazon.in/10-Human-Microbes-Health-Happiness/dp/...](https://www.amazon.in/10-Human-Microbes-Health-Happiness/dp/0007584059))

* Gut: The Inside Story of Our Body's Most Under-Rated Organ ([https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/938528861X](https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/938528861X))

* Brain Maker: The Power of Gut Microbes to Heal and Protect Your Brainfor Life ([https://www.amazon.in/dp/0316380105](https://www.amazon.in/dp/0316380105))

also watched the course on Coursera about Microbiome
([https://www.coursera.org/learn/microbiome](https://www.coursera.org/learn/microbiome)),
it was an eye opener.

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papapra
From that reading do you have any advice, what can we do to improve our gut
and health ?

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enkephalin
the simplest advice would be less sugar, more fiber (and probably some omega-3
PUFAs). i'll add sources when i get home.

~~~
koolhead17
* Less Sugar

* Less refined/junk food

* Limited use of antibiotics

* More greens

* Add curd/yogurt (in not allergic in your diet)

* More dry fruits, nuts

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Xeoncross
> It was an eye-opener for a lot of people who couldn’t see the clinical
> relevance of gut microbes

I've met a a number of people that think this way. As if the whole of the
body's digestive and immune system serves no purpose simply because it's
complex and we don't understand it well enough.

~~~
arca_vorago
I worked as a sysadmin at DNA sequencing and analysis company for a while, and
one of the things the boss was adamant about was how important in all factors
the microbiome was, and he was repeatedly proven correct. For example, we were
doing some work with a leading Chrons researcher... and doing microbiome
sequencing was leading to some very promising progress. This happened in many
fields, for example wound recovery biofilm.

I am very happy to have gotten the opportunity to work there, and sometimes I
wish I hadn't left. My non-compete is finally up at least!

~~~
Retric
Is there any good research for dealing with biofilms inside the body? I know
Acne and dental plaque are well known as is some links with arterial diseases,
but I have not heard of much outside of that.

~~~
trhway
very anecdotal/personal and speculative. I was a SIBO sufferer for years. GP
didn't really have a clue what it is. I thought candida, tried diet, remedies
- with very moderate temporary success. Got actually diagnosed with SIBO - by
breath test - only few months back. The GE was very pessimistic and skeptical
about my prospects of getting rid of it. First round of antibiotic (Xifaxan) -
very mild improvement (may be 30% based on a major symptom - gas generation).
I pressed the GE for another round of some other antibiotic. With one more
lecture on low chances to cure, he gave me another, a wide spectrum one -
amoxicillin. This time it hardly budged a needle.

So, what to do? I remembered reading some research which connected the cases
of low antibiotic efficiency with bacteria organization into biofilms. Given
that both - Xifaxan, which acts mainly in the internal space of the intestine,
and the amoxicillin, which acts from the blood, ie. from the inside of
intestinal wall, didn't work well, it suggested to me that the bacteria is
probably biofilmed upon and inside the mucous layer. So basically i needed to
scrub clean the surface of my intestines. High skilled yoga practitioners do
self-cleaning by chewing on a length of cloth and passing it that way through
the body - well, now i understood why they would do it :) Not having yoga
skills and thinking engineering way - i needed something like a laxative which
would be sucking the water through and off the intestinal walls (i.e. washing
the biofilms/colonies off the walls and down) and would start doing it right
in the upper small intestine (the breath test shown that i had the bacterial
overgrowth starting in the upper small intestine). The first Google search
brought it right away - salt water flush. Once i saw it, i didn't even have
the patience to go to store for the recommended pink Himalayan salt as it was
pretty obvious that salt(ie. NaCl) itself is the key here as the salt acts
exactly the way i needed. I just rushed to the kitchen (i got so tired of SIBO
for all those years) and used the regular one. 3 hours later the effect on the
SIBO was stronger than that from a round of antibiotic. That week i repeated
it 4 more times (with the recommended pink Hymalayan salt as actually it
tastes better :). For several weeks after - 1-2 times/week. Last week didn't
have to do it at all. SIBO is known to have high return rate, and i'm
absolutely not bothered by it as the procedure can easily be repeated if/when
it becomes needed and not that bacteria can develop resistance to it.

~~~
cat199
Don't have anything near this bad, but anecdotally I've felt alot
better/cleaner less 'clogged' stomach wise after drinking lemon water (like
1oz lemon juice+water, no sugar) regularly and eating pickles - I had a
similar 'cleaning the gut' theory.

~~~
trhway
oh, yes, acidic stuff, like vinegar dressed salads and straight
supplementation with HCl (stomach acid), have helped me to somewhat soothe the
condition during those years. From what i read, my understanding is that in
normally healthy gut the "good" bacteria do maintain slightly acidic
environment which prevents the "bad" bacteria overpopulation and biofilm
formation.

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abollaert
Tangentially : I'm currently reading a book about microbes and microbiomes in
general.

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27213168-i-contain-
multi...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27213168-i-contain-multitudes)

I've found it to be pretty interesting and accessible if the subject interests
you.

~~~
inovica
Thanks That looks good and I am researching this (just as a hobby) at the
moment myself

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batisteo
Is this Kurzgesagt video relevant?
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=YI3tsmFsrOg](https://youtube.com/watch?v=YI3tsmFsrOg)

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aaavl2821
was just reading about one of the companies mentioned, Evelo, this morning.
their IPO prospectus mentions a few other potential benefits of using "bugs as
drugs", rather than traditional biologics or small molecules, including 1) can
alter multiple biological pathways, as opposed to one target per drug w small
or large molecules, 2) cheaper to optimize the product (don't have to do
extensive medicinal chem or antibody optimization, just need to pick the right
naturally occurring bug) and 3) potential for microbes to be safer (ppl have
been eating these for a long time). a nice side effect of a safer treatment is
that you can use them in less sick patients, thus increasing your market size

i can see 1) being true. 2) potentially is true, though i don't have the
expertise to evaluate this. however, some companeis are genetically
engineering microbes to increase effectiveness, which would add to the time
requried to "optimize" the microbe. for 3), ive heard differing opinions. "the
tox is in the dose", so even if ppl have ingested a microbe without harm, if
you increase the amount of microbe who knows what will happen.

nonetheless, their approach is interesting. the idea is that circulating
immune cells (dendritic cells and macrophages) "sample" the gut microbiome by
sticking tendrils through the intestinal wall. they collect antigens from the
gut and then migrate to regional lymph nodes (basins with a bunch of immune
cells) and interact with t cells and other immune cells, changing how they
function. they have a platform where they screen a bunch of different microbe
strains in culture with dendritic cells (and maybe other cells) and then
measure what cytokines and other chemicals the dendritic cells secrete /
express. they select microbes that have the ideal "immunophenotype" to use as
therapies. they then validate these in animal models of disease, and have some
really impressive preliminary results (summary of data in the IPO prospectus)

of course, as the article states, the big question is whether this will work
in people. there's conflicting evidence as to what particular strain is most
implicated in a particular cancer. and we also don't really know if just
hitting one strain is enough to do anything. part of what makes evelo
interesting is that they think theyve found a specific immunological mechanism
for their microbes role in disease, which makes it easier to measure whether
its working in early studies (ie you can measure circulating cytokine and
immune cell populations as a proxy for whether the cancer is getting better).
however, theres no way to know without doing the human studies. this
phenomenon applies to all types of drugs however, and is the reason why drug
r&d is so expensive: you never know if something works until you test in
humans, and thats really expensive

