
Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013) - bemmu
http://www.tofugu.com/2013/07/22/why-japanese-toilets-are-failing-in-america/
======
idlewords
I brought one of these home from Japan and have been trying it out on
unsuspecting houseguests. People usually yelp the first time (surprise heated
seat!) and after the second time they're hooked.

The water jet is unsettling the first time you use it, but you get used to it
quickly. The feeling of having a genuinely clean butt gives you the confidence
you need to go crush it in the boardroom.

~~~
Avshalom
> The feeling of having a genuinely clean butt gives you the confidence you
> need to go crush it in the boardroom.

Can't speak to bidets, but a while back on a whim I bought some flushable
moist wipes and started using just like one at the end.

Yeah knowing you have a clean butt is totally a confidence booster.

Side note: on the general toilet subject

Niagra Conserveration's 1.25 gallon flaperless toilet is excellent that thing
can flush a giraffe[1].

[1]Specifically it will flush >= 1kg of soybean paste [http://www.map-
testing.com/map-search.html](http://www.map-testing.com/map-search.html)

~~~
ams6110
Was looking at the Niagra Conservation website, they seem to sell only through
distributors and plumbing professionals. Are these sold for DIY installation?

~~~
Avshalom
You can buy them from Amazon I know, I just checked home depots website, they
only have the .8 gpf toilet which is can't vouch for.

... Which is to say yes you can buy them for diy.

------
bane
Here's my answer:

* no plugs near the toilet in American homes

* too f'ing expensive

Combined, these two turn getting a Japanese style toilet into a multi-thousand
dollar investment. To compare, even reasonably nice toilets cost <$200 at your
local hardware store.

There _are_ U.S. homes with Bidets in them. My sister had one in the master
bath of her 1940s era home. But they're again another $200-400 prices plus
plumbing costs.

If somebody made a Japanese style toilet, and it and install were <$500 Toto
brand toilets would be everywhere.

~~~
dmckeon
I saw the bidet seat attachments being hawked in the aisle of a CostCo
recently, so that may be a sign that people in the US are willing to consider
the purchase.

[http://www.costco.com/toilets-washlets.html](http://www.costco.com/toilets-
washlets.html)

Re the "flushable" wipes - many US municipal waste plants would reportedly
like that word removed from the labeling - while they will flush, they do not
decompose readily.

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/flus...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/flushable-
personal-wipes-clogging-sewer-systems-utilities-
say/2013/09/06/9efac4e6-157a-11e3-a2ec-b47e45e6f8ef_story.html)

~~~
bane
Yeah, I saw those too. $250-$600?!

Why is the one without the $10 of plastic seat cover just $40, while the ones
with are 10x as much?

There's a two-pack consisting of two entire toilets, _with_ seats, that within
the ballpark of just one of those bidet seats. I cannot fathom what kind of
gold plated electronics are stashed away inside of these bidet seats. The $600
model has a cutaway view showing _maybe_ $150 of stuff packed away inside.

This is kind of what I'm talking about. The price for Japanese-style toilet
stuff is kind of bonkers.

------
lordnacho
So I was shopping for bathroom fixtures with my wife and I decided to use the
bathroom (the ones that were plumbed!).

I sit down, do my thing, and I notice there's a remote control unit. I press
the button and a jet of water shoots up my ass, and I get so freaked out I
stood up and got the rest of me wet, too. Having not read the manual, I press
a few more buttons because I hear these things dry you as well. It did, after
a few more squirting incidents.

It would have been cool to have one of these things, but they do cost a fair
bit more than a normal toilet. Also your guests may never return to your
house.

Oh and someday these things will be so advanced they will be considered
intelligent. Terrible thought, an intelligent being whose whole life is
looking where the sun don't shine.

~~~
maxerickson
Proctologist?

------
someone324
This is a big deal, but no one wants to think or talk about it. You can start
to experience this by just taking a shower immediately after anything that
would normally require a bidet (read: toilet paper... or kleenex). It's
quickly realised that this means a LOT of time wasted taking showers and
clothes-changing to stay clean in only two areas. And I'm sure everyone shaves
often enough so that nothing sticks, right? It then become annoying, as this
is entirely a solved problem from the engineering side (very much "not
invented here"). I don't even use toilet paper any more. However, I live in an
apartment and can't afford one of these washlets anyway, yet I very clearly
see the advantages.

~~~
pmontra
As an Italian living in Italy (bidets in every bathroom here) I can't think of
any more convenient way to clean myself after I used the WC. I experienced the
Japanese one in Japan and it's not as effective, but it's better than nothing.

------
raldi
Note that deep into the piece, the author reveals he's never actually tried
one before. So take his advice and analysis with a grain of salt.

------
crimsonalucard
Before smartphones became the rage, American consumer technology always lagged
behind japan in terms of adoption. I think this is still the case for a lot of
things, including toilets.

~~~
ZanyProgrammer
Even in more rural parts of Japan, how quickly is technology adopted? Or do we
make the assumption that Tokyo and a few other cities == Japan?

~~~
dheera
In 2009 I went cycling around the Japanese countryside. I was enjoying the
scenery of farmland when all of a sudden this drone came out of nowhere and
started spraying all the crops.

------
tomcam
We love these things. We have bought at least 8 of the Totos over the last 10
years. None has ever needed repair (we have several houses). They helped me a
lot after an abdominal operation, and are good for our severely learning
delayed son.

------
tegeek
If anyone wants to give it a try, here it is a cheaper alternate [1].

This doesn't require the electricity since it is manual but more or less play
the same role like Japanese toilets (without drying facility but you can use
TP after using it).

1\.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower)

~~~
yodsanklai
And they are useful to clean the toilets as well.

------
simonblack
"Also, interestingly enough, most people who grew up with bidets believe the
toilet paper only method to be unsanitary whereas those brought up on TP only
believe bidets to be inferior."

If bidets are inferior to TP, then why should we wash our hands after using
the toilet? Surely a wipe over of our hands with a piece of TP would be
better.

~~~
stonemetal
How about you can't compare a bidet to washing your hands. When you wash your
hands you use soap and purposefully rinse a way from your body. A bidet just
sprays some water with no anti microbial properties, and it makes no attempt
to wash germs away from your body. Tp might not be great at going
antimicrobial but at least it is intelligently applied to keep germs contained
instead of washing them all over your backside.

~~~
bidetsprayerman
Intelligently applied to keep germs contained? The intelligence left the
building with that statement. Water is 10X more hygienic than toilet paper.
Next time you want to wash your hands try wiping them with dry toilet paper.

------
tsukikage
American homes are generally insulated, not drafty, and centrally heated.
There is therefore no need to heat your butt to stop it freezing to your
toilet seat, and so no overwhelming drive to connect everyone's loos to the
mains, and all the other features aren't enough to make it a mainstream
purchase.

~~~
bemmu
The heat is nice, but the bidet function is the main reason I'd want one if I
ever move from Japan.

~~~
bidetsprayerman
Check out the Hand Bidet Sprayer at www.bathroomsprayers.com.

------
kw71
I didn't really like living and working in Japan, but the toilet in my flat is
one of the few things that I dearly miss. I don't know why anyone would want
to stick their hand in "the mess" with a flimsy layer of cheap paper as the
only insulator between skin and "the mess" when such a great alternative is
available.

The machine I had in Japan had a hot water connection instead of an electric
heater. However, being electrically inclined, the models sold in the USA would
be a better proposition for me, rather than having to plumb a hot water line
to the toilet. I'm going to get a Toto as soon as I expect to remain in one
place for longer than five years.

On the other hand, I've had experience with German toilets too, and wow the
fact that this exists makes me sad.

------
jasonwen
I experienced the japanese toilet the first time in 2006. I was curious to try
but afraid it would get messy. It takes a bit getting used to. When i came
back to the netherlands, i wanted to buy one too but, like the US, no power in
the toilet.

After i got my new apartment i had a power outlet built in the toilet. Now im
so used to it, sometimes i even look for the remote in other peoples toilets,
lol.

They say using TP only cleans 20-30% of bacteria and with a bidet around 95%.
Most important is that you feel just fresher down there.

My friends coming over dont use it, but my girlfriend does and loves it.

~~~
raarts
Just an FYI: The Dutch word 'toilet' means restroom or bathroom. So if a Dutch
person would say: "I washed my hands in the toilet", that doesn't mean what
you think it means..

~~~
stuaxo
Well, British (International) English too... it always seems weird the US
thing of calling the toilet the bathroom.

------
ahoge
There are, however, many Americans who started to use wet wipes because they
want to feel cleaner.

Bidet attachments and bidet seats ("washlets") are much cheaper in the long
run and they also aren't a problem for the sewage system.

By the way, electricity isn't an unsolvable problem. There are water resistant
extension cord covers. You can safely extend it.

Maybe it would be a good idea to produce models with replaceable power cords
(with generic IEC 60320 plugs) for the American and European market.

------
blake8086
After using them in various Google bathrooms, I spent the money and added a
Toto washlet to my toilet. It has easily been worth it.

------
wtbob
How do folks use bidets (or those spray-hoses they use in India) without
getting water and feces everywhere? How do they dry off without using tons of
toilet paper?

The whole bidet thing just seems messy and unsanitary. I'm sure that there's a
way to use it which _isn 't_ messy and unsanitary, but I'm not about to make a
mess trying to learn!

~~~
newaccountfool
The only place feces are going to go is inside the bidets, much like a toilet.
It's not going to be flying around the room and the jet of water isn't that
powerfull.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xnm1syPnwE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xnm1syPnwE)

~~~
DanBC
Here's one study that found potential risk from aerosolised particles from
flush toilets.

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16033465](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16033465)

> Many individuals may be unaware of the risk of air-borne dissemination of
> microbes when flushing the toilet and the consequent surface contamination
> that may spread infection within the household, via direct surface-to-hand-
> to mouth contact. Some enteric viruses could persist in the air after toilet
> flushing and infection may be acquired after inhalation and swallowing.

------
mixmastamyk
I've already read several good reasons here. Another major problem is that the
issues solved by these expensive toilets can be solved by much cheaper means.

Temperature: cold seats are not a problem in the Southern third of the
country, and where they are, a padded vinyl seat is quite effective in
mitigating the problem.

Cleanliness: Wet wipes work quite well. Our favorite after trying many brands
with a new baby is the Target generic unscented wipes. They are about $2.50 a
pack, or $20 for a metric-xxxxload.

Therefore I cite the KISS rule, "keep it simple stupid." Cost and maintenance
issues heavily favor the simple toilet and why I've never been very interested
in fancy ones despite the disbelief of others.

~~~
ahoge
> _Wet wipes work quite well._

Wet wipes are terrible for the sewage system:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/nyregion/the-wet-wipes-
box...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/nyregion/the-wet-wipes-box-says-
flush-but-the-new-york-city-sewer-system-says-dont.html)

> _[Wet wipes] are about $2.50 a pack, or $20 for a metric-xxxxload._

You can buy a cheap mechanical bidet attachment for around $30.

~~~
digisign
They can be folded over and thrown out.

------
steven2012
Stupid question, but doesn't the stream of water potentially spray fecal
matter all over the nozzle itself, causing contamination?

~~~
bhayden
I would recommend not drinking from your bidet, after which this is a moot
point. Most things in bathrooms have small amounts of fecal matter on them.

To actually answer your question, this has never been a visible issue for me
in the many years I've used one.

