
GE's smart light bulb reset process is a masterpiece of modern techno-insanity - gitgud
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/20/ge_lightblulb_reset/
======
yaakov34
I have a story on point. My brother is a manager at a company which installs
electrical and HVAC systems, working mostly with very high-end private homes.
They had this couple as clients, both very fancy architects, who designed
their new home to be completely computer-controlled, from window shutters to
air conditioners to lights, without any physical switches (I guess there was a
remote and sensors or something). The architects had this theory that physical
switches completely ruin the aesthetics of a room, and wouldn't abide having
those horrible things in their dwelling. My brother says that he practically
begged them to let him install backup physical switches - his proposal was
that they would have a large panel in a closet somewhere with switches for
everything in the house, which would still leave the switches hidden, but
would at least make the house usable, if not very convenient, if the computer
failed. But the clients insisted on no switches at all and the vendor of the
computer system was willing to work with that, so that's what got built.

Anyway, about a month after the project got handed over, my brother gets a
call: the computer had somehow worked itself into the state of "beyond
fucked", the new computer brought by the vendor was refusing to talk to the
controllers, parts were backordered, long story short, the house had been
unlivable for a week with no end in sight, and could my brother come over and
save it somehow. I think he was able to turn on a few of the most critical
things on in manual mode, but obviously he couldn't wire up the hundreds of
electrical devices in the house. Not sure what happened later.

~~~
zrobotics
Wait, so the preferred solution was a (presumably RF) remote and voice
activation? So you've finished watching a movie, and now have to search the
couch cushions just to turn the light on? Or you are going to the bathroom
late at night and have to say "OK Google" loudly enough for the mic to hear
you, possibly waking people up? Carrying around a portable lantern sounds more
convenient.

Congratulations, somehow this house's lighting system is less ergonomic than
my great-grandfather's house that was lit by kerosene lantern.

~~~
yaakov34
I wasn't there, but from what I understand, the whole place looked like a
concept drawing from a magazine, and there was nothing as convenient or
comfortable as a couch with actual cushions. So that's one problem solved. As
for the bathroom, maybe an infrared volume sensor of some sort?

Yeah, the whole thing _was_ pretty dumb.

------
dominicr
"For some reason, GE decided not to install a physical reset button" Well,
there might be some good reasons not to have a reset button. Without knowing
GE's reasons let's brainstorm:

\- My first thought is that many light bulbs are not easily accessible. They
could be high up, or in a casing that requires a tool to open. So being able
to reset them remotely is a practical benefit.

\- If you google "accidents whilst changing light bulb" it seems that it's not
impossible to injure or even kill yourself whilst changing a light bulb. So
minimising the amount of times you need to physically access a light bulb has
safety benefits.

\- It is possible that the bulb is turned off but the power to it is still on.
In that scenario getting a consumer to reach into a powered on light socket to
press a button on the bulb, near the electrical connections, is not considered
safe.

That's my 5 minutes worth of reasons. Any more?

~~~
tompccs
The fact that there is a logical chain of engineering considerations that got
us to this point I take as granted (yes, the article thinks it could have been
done better but, as you point out, there are safety problems).

But our world is becoming more and more like a Doglas Adams novel - I seem to
remember in one of the H2G2 books that they considered their civilisation so
advanced that they did away with TV remotes, and the TV could detect that you
wanted to change channel when you make a gesture. The upshot being that if you
didn't want the channel to change or the volume to suddenly shoot up, you had
to sit completely rigidly still for the duration of your programme.

~~~
heavenlyblue
I kind of do that to Spotify - I have to listen to tracks I don't necessarily
like so that their suggestion mechanism would stop pushing me the same stuff I
had already listened to.

PS: That being said, I would still listen to stuff I don't like to discover
something, but that's beyond the point - wasn't automation supposed to make
our lives better in some way? :)

~~~
owenmarshall
So your goal is discovery of music?

We used to have a great solution for this: disk jockeys. Some stations still
do employ them as actual curators of music, not just a pleasing voice over the
Clear Channel Top 40 feed.

The problems of today are strange.

~~~
imglorp
The loss of DJs to syndicated formats was tragic.

These folks are pros, with vast experience, and they can put together a show
by theme, or to tell a story, or to set a mood, or to challenge you with some
new things. Most of them now press the button on whatever they're told and
read the title out.

But, every once in a while they sneak in a late night show now, maybe when
mgmt isn't looking.

I wonder if this would be a good format for streaming, like the old days but
global, with a live DJ and fans interacting live.

~~~
owenmarshall
> I wonder if this would be a good format for streaming, like the old days but
> global, with a live DJ and fans interacting live.

I have a great site for you: check out [https://wfmu.org](https://wfmu.org)

~~~
imglorp
Nice, and also [https://radioparadise.com](https://radioparadise.com)

------
undecisive
> For some reason, GE decided not to install a physical reset button – you
> know, one of those tiny holes that you have to stick a pin or paperclip
> into.

Hmmm... Nope, I can't see a problem with getting people to stick a paperclip
into holes around mains electricity! Sounds perfectly safe.

Seriously though, this is bonkers. Power cycling patterns are by far the best
method for initiating a reset - and no, sending a reset command via apps is
not feasible (what if you've lost the account password and you've accidentally
paired it to your neighbours wifi?)

But all bulbs have a "first-use" setup procedure. So a _simple_ power cycling
routine (e.g. on-off 5 times with no more than 5 seconds in either state) -
indicate with a flashing light when it's in the first-use state. Save the
previous settings so that if the kids have done it (because they like the
flashing lights) a simple power cycle will restore the previous settings.

~~~
gus_massa
> _e.g. on-off 5 times with no more than 5 seconds in either state_

Until you get a small kid that has just learned how light switches work,
probably around 2 or 3 years.

~~~
basch
that is exactly why the GE reset process is how it is, so you cant
accidentally reset all the bulbs in your house, by flicking a switch 3 times.
Ive even had bulbs reset being unscrewed while the power is on, because they
flickered.

I have a lot of different brands of smart bulb, and I appreciate the GE
procedure. The people complaining about it dont see why its the less bad
alternative that 3-5 constantly timed power cycles.

------
Nokinside
I had a chat with Japanese lifestyle management consultant for the rich
recently. In the 90's Bill Gates had networked house and automatically
adjusting lights and it was the peak of luxury. Today networking and
automating the house is so affordable that it's not signalling luxury
lifestyle.

Apparently doing simple mundane tasks gracefully and carefully without feeling
irritated is quickly becoming a way to signal to other rich people. Self
regulation, education and taste has always been part of the upper class
lifestyle. It's something that money can't buy. Tastefully understated
lifestyle and restricting gadget usage is how the rich signal to their peers.

~~~
pdkl95
> In the 90's Bill Gates had networked house and automatically adjusting
> lights and it was the peak of luxury.

Nonsense. X10 devices cost a bit more than regular outlets/switches/fixtures,
but not much more. I know many people that added dimmers/timers/remote-control
to their lights for a few hundred dollars in the late-80s/90s.

Home automation has been a solved problem with cheap and easy solutions for
decades.

~~~
cptskippy
Except X10 devices are unsecure and can have issues with interference from
neighboring homes. That's part of the reason why Insteon developed a new
protocol, it mostly solves those two issues.

~~~
pdkl95
I'm only using X10 as an example with which I have personal experience. While
it did have problems, it was a decent protocol considering it was developed in
the 70s. I'm sure much better alternatives exist now (or could easily be
developed).

The point is that lighting automation (and similar home automation features)
is not a difficult problem, that doesn't need anything as powerful as a
microcontroller or a dependency on the internet. A simple local-only control
protocol is much more appropriate.

~~~
cptskippy
I would disagree about the microcontroller necessity. Proper security would
necessitate a microcontroller.

------
perfunctory
At the current level of economic and technological development we could all be
working fifteen hours a week and still have a great life [0]. Instead we keep
ourselves busy designing "smart light bulb reset process", producing
instructional videos about that process, watching instructional videos, and
being frustrated when it eventually doesn't work.

[0]
[http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf](http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf)

~~~
acupofnope
Where do you live that your can afford a 15-hour week without worrying about
rent, food,..etc?

~~~
soufron
Well, in Europe, you can.

~~~
hmd_imputer
no, you cannot. Not everyone can. At least, not in Germany. People pay 60% of
their net income to rent while working 40 hours a week. How do you expect the
rent to be paid with just 15 hours of work per week in Germany?

~~~
serpix
The big con is working 40 hours a week to afford to rent/own/buy a place to
live so you can continue working said 40 hours a week.

Cut it to 15, move to cheaper residence and cut out gadgets, buying useless
shit and owning lots of things. This frees up huge chunks of time and
creativity and freedom. The freedom you thought you were working towards
toiling 40 hours of your life per week.

~~~
hmd_imputer
yeah, see what happens to the economy if half of the people take this way. Let
me call bs on that.

~~~
alanbernstein
You mean the economy which produces all of the useless things that the parent
just said we should stop consuming mindlessly? Slowing economic development is
a benefit.

------
Phillipharryt
I remember this being brought up on reddit. Yes it's ridiculously lengthy, but
having a procedure instead of a reset button is actually a smart idea. So
they've taken a kernel of a good idea and went overboard on trying to protect
users from accidentally resetting.

Having a procedure allows you to reset bulbs in hard-to-reach places or a
whole set of lights in one room can be reset using the one lightswitch.

~~~
worldsayshi
> having a procedure instead of a reset button is actually a smart idea

I can't think of any user friendliness benefit for this. Are you thinking
about component cost?

~~~
Hinrik
> allows you to reset bulbs in hard-to-reach places

~~~
m-ee
They didn't have to remove the switch to do that

~~~
Phillipharryt
This way the bulb only has one form of input, current. It is far more basic
and probably cheaper that way.

------
acd
If you have kids they play with turning the light switch on and off. So I can
see the need not to reset by accident.

A simpler solution is to have ordinary plain light bulbs. Probably friendlier
to the environment due to less electronics. It’s hard to hack ordinary light
bulbs so they are secure.

Reset button makes sense though. Reset button are costlier for bill of
materials so manufacturers save on that.

~~~
janekm
Reset button is actually a safety issue, as the bulb would have to be plugged
into the mains to register the reset. A metal paperclip inserted into the body
of the light bulb would be very problematic from an electrical isolation point
of view.

The big failure arguably is not testing the firmware sufficiently (or building
in recovery algorithms) to necessitate a reset procedure in the first place.

~~~
Retric
Lightbulbs don’t get handled in operation. So you can have a huge reset button
and no need for a paperclip.

As to firmware, cosmic rays for example randomly flip bits. Which means for
any large scale deployments you want a reset option.

~~~
Taniwha
Let me think - the reset button can only work when the light is powered up
(and maybe too hot to touch) - you can't mount it on the metal base because
that's live when it's on, and so the light fitting is designed so you can't
touch the base. you could mount it in the glass but it would cast a shadow ...

any solution has to cost less than a penny ...

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Let me think - the reset button can only work when the light is powered up
> (and maybe too hot to touch)_

A capacitor that is kept charged during normal operation, and that powers the
reset circuit which you close with your metal pin once you unscrew the bulb.
The circuit flips some bits in persistent memory of the bulb.

~~~
vinaypai
So it resets every time you leave the bulb off long enough for the capacitor
to discharge?

~~~
TeMPOraL
No. "Reset" is done by a circuit, and the only way to power it is by
connecting that capacitor to it by pushing something into the reset pinhole.
If you don't do that, capacitor eventually discharges but since the circuit
never gets powered, no reset happens. So after a while you need to connect the
bulb to mains power in order to be able to perform reset.

------
esseeayen
Sometimes the physical reset button would be the worst way to reset. I have
lifx gen 1 bulbs (post Kickstarter) throughout my house and they are in high
places/not easy to access without renting a large ladder/scaffold. Even the
worst on/off procedure to reset would be easier than climbing to get to a
physical switch.

------
fluxem
Resetting a lightbulb. What a time to be alive.

~~~
klez
Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. I mean, I'm as geeky as it gets,
but I'm still "amused" by the fact that we have lightbulbs with a firmware and
a reset procedure, books that need to be charged and fridges that tweet.

~~~
huseyinkeles
The first time I had to upgrade the firmware on my smart lightbulbs, it was so
weird. But you get used to it! And I think they were one of the best purchases
I did to be honest.

Some features I love; # When I come to my home during the evening, lights are
automatically turned on. # When I leave my place, they automatically turn off.
# You can set up alarms, like 30 minutes before my alarm goes off in the
morning, lights are starting turn on slowly. By the time the alarm goes off,
the room is completely lit.

~~~
nradov
Perhaps I'm missing something but why would I want any of that? It all seems
annoying and useless.

~~~
sumedh
You never been in bed and then remembered to turn off the light in some other
room?

~~~
DJHenk
No?

Well, maybe I have done that somewhere in the past ten years. If that's the
case then I probably got out of bed, turned it off and went back to bed again.
And immediately forgot that it happened, because it is only a very minor
inconvenience. Really a lot less hassle than dealing with this IoT tech.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
Right? When you add up all the hassle of configuring everything and
troubleshooting it... christ, give me a damn switch any day.

------
Talyen42
This is why I don't buy the "IoT smart home" future. There's no such thing as
a "smart" device that doesn't typically break within 4-5 years. Dozens of such
devices in a house means you'd be dealing with a broken device every few
months, which is my nightmare.

I want the LEAST amount of complexity possible to control all my critical
living functions, from fridges to windows to lights to cars.

~~~
roland35
I am all for dumb appliances over the current crop of "smart" appliances, but
one feature I would LOVE would be some kind of sensor log of my refrigerator!
This would help to know if the power went off while I was gone - did the
temperature rise too much? That is all I need...

The same would apply to other appliances and HVAC, just simple data to know
everything is working correctly.

~~~
bryantraywick
The fridge is trickier, but for your freezer fill a small plastic cup with
water and let it freeze. Then place a penny on top of it. If it gets warm
enough for the water to melt the penny will drop.

~~~
Afton
Put a bottle water in the freezer until it's frozen. Turn it on it's side. If
you notice the ice-air line isn't vertical, you had a warming event.

~~~
ndjskska
There are heat-sensitive stickers that change color if above some threshold.

It's on packaged meat in Norway I believe.

~~~
roland35
that would be a good single use solution, we generally only a long power
outage once every few years so that could work.

------
dangrossman
The process is the same for my Cree Connected bulbs and my GE Link bulbs,
except a bit shorter (2 seconds on, 2 seconds off, repeat 4-5x). I was able to
reset a dozen bulbs in just a few minutes, to pair them with a new hub, by
just flicking the light switches (that control banks of bulbs each) without
removing the bulbs. Having to remove each bulb and individually reset it with
a paperclip would be less convenient.

~~~
Causality1
There is no reason you couldn't have both options.

~~~
dmix
..or a less lengthy procedure

------
tossAfterUsing
> For some reason, GE decided not to install a physical reset button – you
> know, one of those tiny holes that you have to stick a pin or paperclip
> into. Instead, it programmed the devices to factory reset after being
> turning on and off in a specific pattern.

Physical reset switch would be great, unless you've got 20 lights all
installed in a chandelier 30 feet up.

~~~
knolan
If you’ve got such a light fixture you’re probably not changing your own light
bulbs.

~~~
perl4ever
Cathedral ceilings are pretty common, surely a couple orders of magnitude more
than servants.

------
davidgerard
30-minute remix:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFtAUjtoF4&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFtAUjtoF4&feature=youtu.be)

Tangential useful information: Which smart bulbs should you buy (from a
security perspective)
[https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/51910.html](https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/51910.html)

------
Jonnax
Philips Hue is older I think and doesn't have this insanity.

The bulbs have a serial number on them, you just input that serial into the
app synced with a new bridge.

~~~
james_a_craig
There's a proper reset procedure much like the GE bulbs too, though - On-Off
at 3-to-5 second intervals 5 times.

~~~
tbyehl
With Hue bulbs there's no Off-On cycle reset. Serial Number or TouchLink.

------
_nalply
Here the reset procedure for Awox color light bulbs:

1\. If possible, put your bulb in white (hot or cold no matter ...). The reset
procedure works better when the bulb is white rather than color.

2\. In the steps below, the power is turned off. It is not ON / OFF done using
the remote control or the application, but electrical ON / OFF.

3\. Your light bulb is off. This is the beginning of the procedure.

4\. Turn it on briefly (one second) and turn it off

5\. Allow 6 seconds

6\. Turn it on a second time briefly (one second) and turn off

7\. Allow 6 seconds

8\. Turn it on a third time briefly (one second) and turn off

9\. Allow 6 seconds

10\. Turn it on for a fourth time (12 seconds) and turn off

11\. Allow 6 seconds

12\. Turn on the fifth time (12 seconds) and turn off

13\. Allow 6 seconds

14\. Turn it on. The bulb will then reset and flash green. Then it will return
to its initial red state.

I never managed to get the bulb to flash green, however somehow I managed to
reset the bulb anyway.

~~~
Freak_NL
> The reset procedure works better when the bulb is white rather than color.

So it doesn't just work or not, it works _better_.

~~~
TeMPOraL
What. One would think that a reset procedure is binary, it either works or it
doesn't...

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
Some people aren't satisfied with the bog standard factory reset. They need
the _better_ reset.

------
mytailorisrich
Could people remind me why they need these "smart" bulbs in the first place?

~~~
qball
Because smart bulbs are the cheapest and best option for making the following
possible:

* Wake timers. I can wake up with light shining in my face even with the curtains drawn, which makes it easier for my body to sense that it's time to wake up and harder for it to fall back to sleep. Bonus points if it's green or blue on a grey day, which the more expensive bulbs allow you to choose.

* Security and timing. Lights can be programmed to turn on and off at semi-random times to simulate the appearance of someone being home, and normal wall timers only control lamps, not ceiling fixtures. Those timers are also a terrible programming experience compared to a good smartphone app, and they flat out disable the light when off (smart lights on a timer can be overridden by cycling the fixture's power, which cheap wall timers don't detect).

* On-the-fly color shifting. Certain colors of light help me focus when I'm up late at night wrangling code; others help sleep. A dim red light at night means you can easily find your way to the bathroom around possible obstacles without fully waking yourself up.

* Dimmers. In apartments and other living arrangements where you can't do electrical work, and that don't already have dimmers, this is the only way to have lights with variable brightness.

The only thing that smart lights don't do is come in 100W-equivalent models-
at least, not Hue bulbs, which make the colors and maximum light output dimmer
than might be desired.

That said, the GE thing is clearly a "feature" that some engineer was either
forced to implement (or worse, thought it was a good idea) because they didn't
want to shell out the 5 cents per unit for the reset button. Which is a valid
point, but the fact you have to do that in the first place betrays larger and
more fundamental problems with their product.

~~~
pdkl95
> the cheapest and best option

My father and I implemented all of those features trivially and cheaply in the
late 1980s with X10 switches/outlets/fixture.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_%28industry_standard%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_%28industry_standard%29)

X10 devices also featured:

* No internet (or other network) access. It worked as long as the mains power was on.

* Putting the control in the outlet or fixture allowed any type of light or device to be controlled. (My father used this to remotely control a CCTV camera)

* Plugging a X10-enabled dimmer lamp into a standard outlet (like any other lamp) allowed remote dimming without the need for any modifications to the existing electric outlets/etc.

(full-range color LED lights didn't exist yet, but controlling color could
have easily used a similar protocol).

This type of feature doesn't need and shouldn't be implemented with a "smart"
controller. If the design includes a "reset" procedure, it's overengineered
and overcomplicated for basic automation of simple devices like lights. If the
design requires internet access, it's a broken design that unnecessarily
introduces an external dependency and risk of remote attack.

~~~
vinaypai
Yes I wonder why they didn't use an industry-standard wireless protocol.
Possibly one named after a Norse king and built into basically every phone
made in the last decade or so.

~~~
perl4ever
That protocol has been around so long, I wonder why connecting to things is so
chancy and slow and frustrating.

------
mpettitt
Ikea bulbs use a 6 on-off cycle to reset, which is pretty simple (no timing),
although toddler can do it. Hue bulbs require either a bridge (if it's linked
to them, is one click in the interface, if not, you need to get the secret
code which is printed on the actual bulb and enter it), or using a remote
(press and hold I and O buttons for about 10 seconds, while holding remote
next to bulb). The remote also resets other types of bulb, but has a pretty
short range, so unless you have a multi-bulb fitting with several bulbs within
about 10cm of the remote, it doesn't cause problems. Still a pain to do
compared to the Ikea ones!

Ikea smart outlets have a pin hole reset though, and absolutely no buttons
other than that, which I've found makes them pretty toddler proof (the fish
tank lighting kept getting set to random by our toddler when using a
traditional timer outlet...)

------
kstenerud
This is mind bogglingly silly.

Just do this:

On-off a bunch of times puts the bulb into a receptive state for 30 seconds,
where it will stop everything else (other than the light being on) and listen
for admin commands from a controller, one of which is "reset".

Kids messing with the lights? If no admin command gets sent, it returns to
normal operation after 30 seconds.

Problem solved.

~~~
tiborsaas
It's not about about technical problem that's idiotic, any HN reader could
solve this way better. Imagine the bureaucracy and processes at GE that let
this product to production. How many eyes looked at it and thought it's a good
idea? It even went through a firmware refresh :) This will be an iconic
product of the IoT era, not it a good way of course.

~~~
kstenerud
I've seen this kind of thing everywhere, from startups to bigcorp. I've seen
entire teams of otherwise smart people come up with the most idiotic systems,
and swear up and down that there's nothing wrong. It's not a bureaucratic
problem; it's a people problem. And it's not that they're stupid... it's
something else.

------
robertelder
Here is the instructional video referenced on how to reset the bulb:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BB6wj6RyKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BB6wj6RyKo)

It reminds me of the 'cinco' product line:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwqnR327fk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwqnR327fk)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG8ZKwaC1jY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG8ZKwaC1jY)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5BZkaWZAAA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5BZkaWZAAA)

------
neilv
When I first saw the video, I assumed it was a viral marketing attempt.

------
sverige
I've come to the conclusion that the point of the whole 'smart home' and 5G in
every neighborhood is really just to improve surveillance of a greater
percentage of the population for a bigger portion of the day by whomever. I
don't see any other real practical advantage for consumers to networking any
appliances. It's a lot more complexity for little to no gain.

------
davio
Reminds me of the key programming method for my 2003 car: Sit in the driver
seat of your G35. Close all of the car doors. Insert the key into the ignition
then remove it. Repeat this process six times within 10 seconds. Watch for the
emergency lights to flash on the car to indicate that programming mode is
active.

~~~
cptskippy
In the 2007 Honda Accord you had to push the Emergency Brake button a number
of times while doing something. I don't recall the exact procedure but I found
it highly amusing at the time.

~~~
perl4ever
Something I had never thought of before recently - what if you are in your car
with pushbutton stop-start, like most newer cars have, and there's an
emergency where you need to turn the engine off, but the computer isn't
responding, either because you're not in park, there's an electrical
malfunction, or whatever?

I read that typically pressing the button several times or holding it down
should shut the engine off. Which I'm sure seems to an engineer like a clever
solution because isn't that what a person who's panicking would naturally do?

Except that people don't necessarily do that; they hit the button once or
twice and then decide it isn't working. Or they don't think of it at all
because they're more focused on their car being on fire. As documented on a
video I saw.

~~~
cptskippy
The key and keyless systems still fundamentally work the same way.

In purely mechanical ignitions systems in cars prior to the 90s, the ignition
switch is just a momentary switch that requires the key to actuate it. Once
on, the key however can't be removed without triggering the momentary switch
again that tells the car to shut off. That why when you see someone hot wiring
a car in a movie they aren't tying wires together, they just touch them
momentarily.

Since the 90s, most cars rely on transponder systems embedded in the keys.
There are various systems from microprocessors with exposed contacts to NFC
wireless chips but they work mostly the same. There's still a momentary switch
whether it be key based or not but the car won't start unless the transponder
successfully authenticates.

Since the transponder system is required to start the car, having the key on
the ignition switch became redundant and was replaced with just a push button.

------
pvg
Previously:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20314265](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20314265)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230553](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230553)

------
StavrosK
Okay so there are two considerations here:

1) You want this to be easy to reset.

2) You don't want this to be so easy to reset that children playing with it
will do it by accident.

I feel that a good compromise between the two would be a rule of "flick the
switch on and off three times in two minutes, with the on state being longer
than 3 sec".

This makes it easy to reset, just flick it on and off three times slowly, but
hard to reset accidentally, since children don't tend to flick light bulbs on
and off that slowly. For added safety, you can make the "on" time 5 seconds
instead of 3.

I don't think "flick it on and off slowly three times, with each flick lasting
at least five seconds" is hard to follow.

------
lightedman
I'd want to like GE products but the false advertising on their blacklight LED
bulb and their subsequent reaction to my notifying them of such pretty much
turns me off of their products entirely.

Long story short, 7W UV LED advertised blacklight bulb. Only one LED is UV and
the other four are white LEDs, behind a fake woods glass filter. Yanked out
the UV LED, dropped it into my Fermata light (pad/form factor compatible) and
turned it into the mineral specimen lamp I was hoping to get from the original
bulb.

------
foxyv
I want a "Read Only" smart house. One that tells me when the refrigerator
temperature is getting too high or if some appliance has a high resistance
short that's making it use extra electricity. When it comes to everything
else, I want switches and wires. I wish I could buy a TV without the stupid
"Smart" features that turns on in seconds, but it seems like they all have
something installed that makes me have to "Boot" my TV.

------
alkonaut
Smart bulbs are near useless tech behind dumb switches anyway. You have a
light connected to an app but 50/50 chance that the last person left the
switch in the right position for the bulb to get power at all.

It might be possible to install return springs in the switches I’m not sure?

~~~
15155
Smart switches are far, far better. Another bonus: constantly-powered wireless
repeaters all throughout a property.

------
asdfman123
The video reminds me of this classic video, "The missile knows where it is"

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZe5J8SVCYQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZe5J8SVCYQ)

------
johnchristopher
It may have been less annoying if the sequence was decreasing the amount of
focus time between switching (4 seconds then 3, etc.) with a fast blinking
sequence to confirm the user is still on tracks.

------
Balgair
If you are particularly bored, here's the 10 hour remix:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYQwembcRo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYQwembcRo)

------
perl4ever
I bought some light bulbs the other day that had, as a selling point
specifically printed on the box, the statement that they are NOT connected to
the Internet.

They do turn on and off automatically though.

------
croon
This is the same concept but slightly less annoying (shorter time) on IKEA
Trådfri bulbs, if you want to connect them to other zigbee gateways.

On/off 5 (or 6?) times: 1 second off, ½ second on, repeat.

------
itronitron
ugh, why did they have to change the speed of the circle for the two second
period? it would have been better to just show the two second part as 1/4th of
the 8 second period.

------
DoctorOetker
if the device is raddio (bluetooth) controlled, wouldnt it be more sane to
reset through the bluetooth device? perhaps a unique serial number on the bulb
(verifies access to the bulb), and/or a bulb generated string of random bits
(on/off), so the user enters for say 10 cycles if the bulb is on or off
(prevents replay attacks)? ok, you should close the window blinds.

or even simpler: just unscrew and rescrew the lightbulb to reset!

~~~
StavrosK
> wouldnt it be more sane to reset through the bluetooth device

No, because you might be resetting _because_ you can't connect with the
bluetooth device.

> or even simpler: just unscrew and rescrew the lightbulb to reset!

How does the light bulb know it's unscrewed? How is that different from
turning the switch off?

~~~
DoctorOetker
How does the light bulb know it's unscrewed? How is that different from
turning the switch off?

it could easily measure this by either:

\- a limit switch, or

\- a split center electrode: if there is a conducting path between left and
right halves between center electrode, then the bulb is screwed in, or

\- measuring the capacitance between outer and center electrode: in open air
there is the known capacitance, when screwed in both the electrodes of the
housing, and the long parallel conductors going to the switches will alter the
capacitance

\- myriad other ways: electrically there is a huge difference between an
unscrewed bulb, and a screwd-in bulb in an open circuit

~~~
StavrosK
How does it do all this with no power?

~~~
DoctorOetker
a capacitor to power the microcontroller for a few milliseconds?

actually, if the goal is to detect a reset operation by unscrewing: while
unscrewing and shortly after the circuit is open, the previously contacting
electrodes are still close by, such that it can be powered capacitively while
it realizes it is being reset... this is probably noticable by measuring the
change in complex impedance

~~~
StavrosK
Your solution is to make laypeople unscrew the bulb with the socket still
live, while increasing the cost of each bulb by a lot?

------
AlexDragusin
Kafka is alive and well and he is making smart bulbs.

------
sizzzzlerz
The first thing I thought of was why anyone would possibly be interested in
buying these things.

Afterwards, I rationalized that there are those who want the latest hi-tech
gadgets and see these as being state-of-the-art without really understanding
their impacts.

Finally, after reading the inane steps needed to reset your light bulb, I
could only think that I would hope that purchasers keep the owner's manual
(for a light bulb?) is a well-known place because after a couple of months,
nobody is going to remember the steps.

------
d--b
If Apple had done this light bulb you’d have to buy a $70 “resetter” device,
that would do the on/off cycling for you.

If Facebook had made the light bulb, you’d have to unfriend the lightbulb for
it to reset.

If Google had made the lightbulb, well the reset function would be
discontinued.

If Microsoft had made the lightbulb, you’d need to call your active directory
admin to perform the reset.

~~~
krapp
>If Facebook had made the light bulb, you’d have to unfriend the lightbulb for
it to reset.

The funny thing is, I can see IoT enabled devices using social media accounts
as an interface. You would be required to follow your appliances on Facebook
or Twitter or whatever and your refrigerator would PM you when you were low on
juice or something.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
> You would be required to follow your appliances on Facebook or Twitter or
> whatever and your refrigerator would PM you when you were low on juice or
> something.

I remember a time when we were promised smart fridges that would be able to
give the user a live inventory and even automatically reorder food when items
were running low. Instead we got "smart" light bulbs that give you an
epileptic fit when they inevitably stop working and need to be factory reset.

What a time to be alive!

------
qrbLPHiKpiux
Either that, or the engineers are trolling everyone and admin is too dumb to
know it.

------
homero
This article is more annoying than the reset procedure which makes sense

------
pfdietz
The Internet of Things I Won't Buy

------
blunderkid
If this thing is "smart", wouldn't a software reset like via a voice command
be easier?

~~~
Freak_NL
A voice command probably (1) requires it to be connected to its hub, (2) which
needs internet and be able to reach the voice processing servers of the
vendor, (3) which needs to be still in business and running said servers.

The reason for needing to reset are likely to be the first and second
requirement, so that wouldn't work. The third requirement just means you need
to buy a new light bulb (at least that is the way the market seems to work for
this gear).

------
tomohawk
Separation. Of. Concerns.

------
stestagg
Does this procedure produce the morse-code for "Help I'm stuck in a GE
factory"?

------
taylodl
Now all they need is a smartphone app to guide you through the reset process!
Bwahahahahaha!!

------
yndoendo
C-Life wasted away by GE.

------
rapind
up up down down left right left right B A

------
codegladiator
Why do I need to reset a light bulb ?

------
emilfihlman
Sigh. Are people really so stupid to think that this is somehow bad?

