

House Fails to Extend Patriot Act Spy Powers  - tshtf
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/02/patriot-act-notextended/

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Encosia
There's not much to celebrate here, unfortunately. The bill was brought to
vote using an accelerated procedure that requires a 2/3 vote. When it goes
through the regular process that only requires a simple majority, it will pass
easily if the vote is remotely similar (277-148).

~~~
jdp23
This is just the first skirmish in a battle that will go on for at least 10
days and may go on for months. That said, there's a lot to celebrate -- it
changes the dynamics of the debate in the Senate, and increases the chance
that Leahy's bill (S.193) introducing new safeguards as part of the
reauthorization may make it to the floor.

So, stay tuned!

Disclaimer: I'm one of the organizers with Get FISA Right, a grassroots civil
liberties organization working to reform or repeal the PATRIOT Act.

~~~
sigzero
Kudos to you sir! FISA needs to be tweaked.

~~~
jdp23
Thanks! And yes it does. We're working on it ... we'll have an update later
today or tomorrow about the next step at <http://getfisaright.wordpress.com/>

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3pt14159
Though encouraging, this is most likely bad news. I remember when the auto
bailout was rejected. I was happy! And then two weeks later they passed one
with ten times the pork.

I bet it gets worse, not better. They'll update it to reflect the current
state of the internet and its widespread adoption while still keeping all the
authoritarian provisions, if not in name.

~~~
jdp23
Indeed, S.289 (Feinstein's bill) is even worse than HR 514. Here's a summary:
<https://www.popvox.com/orgs/getfisaright>

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fakelvis
Content aside, the words chosen to construct the article's title is
intruiging.

The same piece of news is currently on the HN front page twice [1][2], framed
in two very different ways:

Wired: House Fails to Extend Patriot Act Spy Powers

BBC: House rejects extension of 'Patriot Act' powers

[1] Here [2] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2196126>

~~~
pgroves
Seriously, the headline should be "House Succeeds at Discontinuing Patriot Act
Spy Powers"

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JacobIrwin
Government needs the flexibility to exercise the pending three acts in order
to protect citizens. However, it would be nice to know they are being held
accountable.

In other words... which ever division gets this almighty power to tap phones,
businesses, etc. needs to be transparent to a "non-affiliated" (a loose term
to describe two government agencies, I know) almighty power. Something like
the relationship between the fed reserve and the treasury.

Also, the authors should re-word the act and say these powers only apply to
suspected terrorist groups... just to give us a little piece of mind.

~~~
iwwr
Whenever 'flexibility' and 'government' are put together, the result is power
and corruption. Due process and habeas corpus are not just inconveniences
against the ability to fight so-called 'enemies', but fundamental rights
belonging to all. Removing individual liberties is not protecting, but
endangering citizens.

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stevenrace
Perhaps I misread the article, but it seems the Patriot Act is still firmly in
place - with only three sections expiring: Section 215, 206 and 6001.

'Section 215' seems questionably undoable - in the days of deep packet
inspection and tower specific RSSI/locational based queries. It's sorta
impossible to not infringe upon privacy concerns...

Section 215: 'which permits the government to secure wiretapping orders
without disclosing the identities of its targets'

~~~
jbri
The point is whether the government can use that information for broad-base
surveillance. Whether the technology is there to gather the data is orthogonal
to question of whether it should be legal to do so.

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tocomment
So this means no more patriot act? Isn't that a good thing? The tone of the
article makes it sound like a bad thing?

~~~
TomOfTTB
It doesn't really mean the end of anything it just means congress will look at
alternative proposals. With both the Republican leadership and the Obama
administration supporting it the passage of something similar is practically a
lock.

Hopefully it will just be a little less odious.

~~~
iujhygfthujik
Or more likely the same powers will just go to the agencies without any actual
act to oversee them.

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jackolas
It was shocking to see republicans switching votes in the final minutes, I was
surprised no one could mention on CSPAN if the remaining 10 congresspeople
were gone...

~~~
TomOfTTB
This has never really been a partisan issue. This is a bill proposed by the
Republican leadership at the behest of the Obama administration (who wanted to
see an extension through the next election).

But so-called Republicans like Rand and Ron Paul hold beliefs that are even
further from the Patriot Act than liberal ideals are (in that libertarians
believe is as little government as possible while liberals believe in a larger
government).

~~~
nkassis
"(in that libertarians believe is as little government as possible while
liberals believe in a larger government)."

Oh please, liberals don't want larger government in everything, just fiscal
issues. They are as socially liberal as the libertarians in congress like Ron
Paul.

~~~
ataggart
>They are as socially liberal as the libertarians in congress like Ron Paul.

I think you have been misinformed.

[http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/11/sorry_four_loko_chuck_s...](http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/11/sorry_four_loko_chuck_schumer.html)

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tocomment
Come to think of it, why was an expiration put into the original bill to begin
with? It's not anyone would have been able to stop them if they passed a
permanent law to begin with.

~~~
mberning
To make it slightly more palatable (at them time) to those on the fence. If
anybody did raise an objection it was quickly brought up how this was 'just' a
temporary measure. It is going to be a long time before the patriot act goes
away for good.

~~~
tocomment
Was anyone on the fence? I thought I remember hearing that no one even read
it.

~~~
Helianthus16
then you're listening to simplistic explanations of politics.

the climate was such that the desire for Congress to do _something_
necessitated compromise for speed of decision. "No one actually read it"
reflects the reality that the bill was _going_ to pass. the accommodations
made for people who _would_ have been on the fence were made to speed the
process.

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jdabney
I don't think this is really a failure.

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rdl
Somehow I suspect they'll try again.

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nika
It really is a shame that we cannot count on an automatic veto from Obama.
This is an area where I really would hope for some change.

~~~
jdp23
Obama supporting Feinstein's S.289, which is even worse than the House bill
that just went down. On this issue, his policies haven't changed at all from
the Bush Administration. As you say, disappointing. Back in 2006 he was on our
side on this issue. Sigh.

~~~
eli
I think I might be ok with vastly expanded police powers if I was the one who
decides how and when to use them.

~~~
wmeredith
Then you're missing the point. That's the same view our leaders have.

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shareme
This might be good news..

Remember their promise that US Patriot Act would be reviewed and debated
before being renewed..the accelerated procedure did not allow for that but the
regular process does in fact allow debate and review and reading the full act.

