
Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices - devy
https://thewalrus.ca/why-its-so-hard-to-actually-work-in-shared-offices/
======
LandR
I work in a shared office / coworking space.

We have 3 desks in a large open plan office with a kitchen area. It's about 10
feet from my desk. Most of the time it's just me from our company as the other
devs work from home or work out the main office.

My experience of working in this shared space:

* It's noisy. I mean really noisy, noise cancelling headphones are a must. Like I said the kitchen area is near my desk, and people would routinely bang the cupboard doors. I sort of fixed this by putting felt and rubber on the doors to stop the loud banging, but I shouldn't have had to do this.

* People are noisy, people whistle, walk around talking loudly on their phones. Some people I'm sure talk loudly on purpose just to try and look like they are important in front of strangers. One guy makes random trumpet noises with his mouth...

* No one talks to anyone from other companies, to the point of awkwardness. I often see two people in the kitchen area from different companies and it can be a bit like a comedy sketch as they try to get their kitchening done without acknowledging the other person exists. Absurd, why don't people talk to each other. Especially people you see every day!

* When you are remotely working and the only person from your company you have no one to talk to and this is quite isolating and depressing. Especially worse if you end up in a room with 10 others and they are all from the same company. Then they start looking at you like you are in their space.

* The kitchen area, despite being an office staffed with supposed professionals, is always a mess. How does this happen?

Our office space is also open to a throughfare to conference rooms and such,
so you randomly get random people walking through the office, again noisily.

But working here I at least don't have all the distractions of working from
home.

~~~
btbuildem
> The kitchen area, despite being an office staffed with supposed
> professionals, is always a mess. How does this happen?

It's a common space, so it's nobody's. Especially in an environment like that,
a collection of separated individuals

~~~
gregmac
All it takes is one person to really mess it up. It's kind of like breaking
the ice -- the barrier to actually making the area go from "clean" to "not
clean" is much higher than just making it go from "messy" to "slightly
messier".

In an office with a dozen or more people there's a pretty high chance there's
at least one person who is lazy, "too important" and/or "too busy" to clean up
after themselves.

~~~
Artemis2
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory)
might be an interesting read.

~~~
ShorsHammer
Also
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons)

> a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently
> according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of
> all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective
> action.

~~~
rosege
I'm going to throw another link out there and suggest its worth charging a
little more and having cleaning staff
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour)

------
nathanaldensr
_They want an office that matches their personality. And apparently, that
means beer on tap and lots of it.

The office looked like the lobby of a hipster hotel.

Over the next few weeks, we showed up each day and tapped away on MacBook Airs
to the sounds of Portuguese house music and old-school hip hop piped in
through speakers. (“Rap is urban, and so is WeWork,” the company explains
online. “But more profoundly, the common themes of rap are in tune with the
company’s mission.”) While we created, cleaning crews in WeWork T-shirts
quietly restocked the citrus water and wiped up our spilled drinks._

If this is the future of tech work, then I guess I'd better find another
career--perhaps gardening or wood-working?

~~~
reificator
> _If this is the future of tech work, then I guess I 'd better find another
> career--perhaps gardening or wood-working?_

Exactly. I can't imagine working in an environment like that.

You don't want to hear me playing Smooth by Neil Cicierega[1], and I don't
want to hear you playing rap.

A work environment is not the place to be playing music for everyone around
you. Constant generic music is the worst part of retail, and that's saying
something.

If your goal is to foster creativity and productivity, but all I hear is
thump-thump-thump drilling into my head, I'm not going to be either. Even when
it's music I love (or music I love working to) I'll still pause it when I'm
trying to really understand what's going on in a complex system.

[1]: [https://youtu.be/8D-WVlRohQk](https://youtu.be/8D-WVlRohQk)

~~~
ryandrake
Also alcohol flowing at work? I’m no teetotaler but isn’t that a recipe for
trouble? Assuming we’re not just talking about sharing a few beers after
hours. I’ve worked with people who drank on the job to the point where they
were working totally shitfaced, and it’s not pretty. If they’re meeting with
other teams or customers, they’re going to be an embarrassment, and if they’re
checking in code... let’s not even go there. Not to mention how Silicon Valley
is now all wrapped around the axle in “harassment this” and “inclusion that”
and sexual bad behavior and so on. I doubt alcohol would help with any of
that. Just seems like an overall bad idea.

~~~
ramphastidae
Drinking at work is one of the absolutely worst traits of tech. Not only is it
totally unprofessional, but things like ‘Friday beers’ are actually presented
by companies as a benefit, and you face major social and professional
consequences for not participating. It’s obscene.

~~~
silverbax88
You show me any company with beer on tap, and I'll show you a company that I
will run over if we are competing against each other.

~~~
ExactoKnight
Ah, said like a classic startup bro who really doesn't realize how badly he's
getting screwed on equity yet.

Such brash optimism and such little appreciation for the pleasures of life
beyond winning.

~~~
skellera
Some people have different views of what work should be. Don’t need to start
name calling.

------
kerkeslager
There's a bias toward the negative in writing, which I think comes from the
fact that people write as an attempt to solve problems. So you're always going
to see more negative reporting on shared offices than positive.

But I'm old enough to remember when private offices were still common, and
there was a lot of negative writing about those too. As someone about to enter
the software industry, I was very concerned that I'd be lonely and depressed
from working alone in front of a screen all day.

I think the truth behind all this is that the people writing this negative
writing are all mismatched with the offices they're in. If you put a bunch of
introverts in a shared office, they're going to be distracted and stressed.
And if you stick a bunch of extroverts in private offices, they're going to be
lonely and depressed.

The answer for employers is to create mixed workspaces that are conducive to
both forms of work, and make explicit the fact that nobody should be pressured
to work in one space or another.

The answer for individuals is to know yourself and where you work best, and
work at jobs that will allow you to work in a work environment that works for
you.

Complaining about shared workspaces or private workspaces is counterproductive
--it's just trying to force the kind of workspace that works for you onto a
diverse industry that doesn't necessarily work the same as you.

Personally, I get a lot done in shared offices. I can relate to a lot of what
the author complains about, but a lot of the problems he brings up are
problems with startup culture, not with shared workspaces. We extroverts
aren't idiots, we know that stuff like "the common themes of rap are in tune
with the company’s mission" is ridiculous.

~~~
generallee5686
I agree with you on employers needing to create workspaces conducive to
introverts and extraverts.

I've seen one attempt at this and I think it was basically an extraverts
attempt at making introverts happy. It was basically "we made these 3
'private' office things that you can use when you need to". This doesn't help
me at all. Can I use these 90% of the time I'm at work? If not, what's the
point?

I think the unfortunate thing that makes this virtually impossible in this day
and age are two things:

1\. It seems to be vastly more expensive for introvert-friendly spaces where
square footage is expensive. Stacking people on top of each other is more
economical. 2\. Introvert-friendly workspaces are generally seen as "uncool"
and unable to attract young and cheap talent.

Sucks being an introvert in tech right now. I'm either working in a noisy
space, forced to wear headphones and listen to music all day long or working
from home where there are other distractions. I just want to see a workspace
that has SOME kind of attempt at catering to introverts. Have yet to see one
though...

~~~
kerkeslager
> I've seen one attempt at this and I think it was basically an extraverts
> attempt at making introverts happy. It was basically "we made these 3
> 'private' office things that you can use when you need to". This doesn't
> help me at all. Can I use these 90% of the time I'm at work? If not, what's
> the point?

Did you give this feedback to anyone who could do anything about it?

> 1\. It seems to be vastly more expensive for introvert-friendly spaces where
> square footage is expensive. Stacking people on top of each other is more
> economical.

That's true, but the benefits of having a workspace that's effective for your
workers' needs would seem to outweigh the cost, I would think.

> 2\. Introvert-friendly workspaces are generally seen as "uncool" and unable
> to attract young and cheap talent.

Sure, but places that are more concerned about being cool to attract young and
cheap talent are generally crappy in lots of ways. If a place is staffed
entirely with folks fresh out of college, that's a better reason not to work
there than any office layout.

~~~
generallee5686
Yea. I actually talked to the guy building the space. Gave me a vague answer
but it seemed like he was basically saying square footage was expensive.

I may have a skewed view on things because I work in a techy college town.

I've actually had some friends who got offices but their job was miserable
(defense contractor). I may have just had bad luck but from my experience,
finding a good place to work without a completely open office environment is
tough.

------
dwc
That's not a shared office, it's a coworking space or something.

I've shared an office with a teammate before, and it was very productive. It
was a great mix of heads-down work and the ability to discuss issues/design as
needed.

OTOH, someone I know started a coworking space a few miles away from my home.
I popped in there a couple of times to check it out and decided it was very
much not for me. Too much "collaboration" and background noise for me
personally, though some thrive on that. The clincher for me was one time there
was supposed to be a presentation that sounded interesting, and well after it
was supposed to start someone announced that it had been canceled last minute.
"Well, I'll do a little work then," I thought. Then they announced that since
the presentation wasn't happening they'd be playing talks from YouTube. Great,
no work after all, big screen video and blaring audio of something I can watch
myself at any time, because why? I dunno. Just not for me.

~~~
cle
It's more like a narcissistic frat than a co-working space. Or maybe more of a
"co-space", since actually getting work done in a WeWork can be a challenge.

(Note: I've actually spent a good deal of time in a WeWork.)

~~~
matte_black
WeWorks are hell, ironically I would only work there if I wanted to do some
“casual work” – writing a few lines of code, play some ping pong, drink a
beer, living the startup life, chat with some people. When I actually needed
to do some serious business I got the hell out and went to my _real_ office.

------
nimbius
Because Hollywood and overzealous architectural design firms dont understand
acoustics...many of them have only recently come to realize the hubris of
their ideas.

I once worked for a $web_company in a cubeless open office with hard flooring
and lots of glass. It was so bad you could hear a fart in the bathroom from
the kitchen. Developers routinely recommended brands of noise cancelling
headphones. In the sysadmin pool we were virtually un-addressable unless you
talked to us on IRC. The office was just too damned loud.

and thats not all, things dropped on the floor never survived. they didnt just
break, they went off like a bomb. I remember a tech-support coworker dropped
her novelty coffee mug and someone thought it was gunfire.

We hired a sound control company to fix most of the problems when an executive
was overheard in his office addressing our devops lead by a homophobic slur.

~~~
majewsky
I would've hired a new executive instead.

~~~
metalliqaz
Executive decided it was best that he keep his job.

------
jefurii
Maybe that's just WeWork, maybe it's a culture that develops in certain
places. I've worked at CrossCampus in Pasadena for awhile and there are a
bunch of programmers, writers, and other types who need to be able to
concentrate who have made the shared-table space work for us. Together we've
made it more of a "study hall" atmosphere. We asked management to turn the
music down to an acceptable volume in our part of the floor, and we apply
social pressure on people who talk too loud or are otherwise too distracting.

In my experience shared-table or open-plan offices didn't work when I was at a
company, but they work pretty well in a coworking space. One aspect of this is
the lack of a power dynamic: you're not sharing an open-plan office with your
manager. You can also leave (or threaten to leave) a coworking space if it
doesn't work for you. Members have more power over their environment if they
can organize. WeWork is a huge chain now, so maybe this works better at
smaller coworking spaces that have less corporate inertia.

~~~
specialist
I covet a law library style heads down quiet work zone.

I’m not crazy about shared office, cafe tables. They have to be library style
heavy, solid to dampen heavy typing, pencl tapping, regular jostling.

~~~
kerkeslager
Have you tried working in an actual library? Most public libraries have WiFi
these days.

~~~
jefurii
I love libraries and my city has some truly beautiful ones. The problem with
working there is that unless you work in a group you have to basically pack up
your whole setup if you want to go to the bathroom or get a cup of coffee. The
coworking space I'm at has physical access controls and the
members/residents/inmates all know each other.

------
woodandsteel
Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be
left undisturbed.

Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason
the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to
accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do
it.

However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of
code will impact on dozens of different things in the program, and generally
in bad ways. So you have to figure out a line of code that will accomplish the
specific thing you are trying to do, but without having any bad consequences
for the rest of the program.

This is a complicated puzzle, and to solve it you have to have the whole
program, or at least a lot of it, in your mind all at once.

But few if any programmers are smart enough to keep it all in their mind all
the time, so for each new line of code they have to sit and think about the
program, look up lots of specifics about it, and then get it all organized in
their minds. That takes a whole lot of focused attention. Any interruption
causes all this to disappear from the programer's mind, and they have to start
all over again.

Now I am not a programmer myself, so I may not have this all right. Maybe
someone could improve it. Also, it would be helpful to have an analogy for
something similar the manager does.

~~~
majormajor
> That's because any line of code will impact on dozens of different things in
> the program

I'd say that's something to avoid whenever possible.

But that's just pushing the metaphor back a level: in order to know how to
design your codebase so that it's well-organized and extensible, you have to
have a pretty good understanding of what it does, what it needs to do, and how
it does it.

For me... once I get into the zone on that, all the noise in the world can't
distract me. But conversations by my desk, other people's music, drive-bys by
the boss, all those things _make it harder to get into the zone_. (Though, for
me, this means it's way easier to work around strangers in a truly shared
space than around co-workers who I'm more likely to talk to.)

On the other hand: Foosball, ping pong, video games -- all those are obviously
distractions. They're there to make it easier to take a break without checking
out and going home for the day, but I've seen many people (shared office or
no) fall into the trap of letting the job be the distraction from the play.

~~~
meowface
>But that's just pushing the metaphor back a level: in order to know how to
design your codebase so that it's well-organized and extensible, you have to
have a pretty good understanding of what it does, what it needs to do, and how
it does it.

There's also the risk of design paralysis. Where you focus so much on perfect
program design that adding a new feature or making a change is offset by
excessive, obsessive time spent making sure it fits the design absolutely
perfectly. Some programmers think more about the aesthetics and organization
of their code than the actual function. They may make large refactors with
every minor change or spend hours thinking about the design when just
implementing their first intuition would be way more efficient for both their
present and future selves.

So, in some cases it may actually take more time to make a change to a well-
designed codebase vs. someone who's just plugging things in as they go and
refactoring later when they need to. But I would agree the opposite problem of
poor design is far more common and that it's usually much faster to make
changes to a well-designed application.

------
ortusdux
99% Invisible did a great piece on the invention of air conditioning and its
role in modern architecture. The part of the story discussing the battle for
the ideal office temperature reminded me of the open vs. closed office debate.
Some memorable excerpts:

"And some architects, like Lisa Heschong, see this as problematic — “you will
never achieve a static environment where 100 percent of the people are happy,”
she says. “There is a huge amount of individual variation in what people
experience and what they prefer,” based on factors like age, sex and the kind
of climate we are used to. All of this runs against the idea of targeting a
single static indoor temperature."

And

"Brager says we could save enormous amounts of energy by letting the
temperatures in buildings fluctuate over a wider range, and giving people more
tools to heat and cool themselves. To accomplish this, Brager advocates a take
a combination of high and low tech approaches. A window that you can open
right by your desk is a great personal cooling device. A sweater is a pretty
good personal heating device. But Brager and her team are also developing low
energy desk fans, foot-warmers, and chairs that can heat or cool."

I for one am very happy to have my own office with windows that open and an
individual thermostat. That's not to say that I would say no to a self heating
and cooling office chair...

[https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-
delight/](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/)

------
tribune
"People don't buy products, they buy better versions of themselves."

$500/month is a lot of money for a chair at a noisy table. On the other hand,
$500/month is easier to stomach if it comes with the feeling of being
successful.

~~~
Cyberdog
As someone who has worked at co-working spaces in places not urbane enough to
have a WeWork, $500 a month strikes me as ridiculous. I'm paying $150 a month
at my current place for a dedicated desk (so not just shared table space). I
do this because I'm able to be more productive than I would be working from
home, so the $150 a month easily pays for itself, but I highly doubt I'd be
over four times more productive paying $700 a month for the same thing at a
WeWork.

Granted, this place doesn't have beer on tap, but it has free-flowing coffee,
and that's all I really need.

You be you, so pay WeWork's prices if the value fits you, but if you're
considering joining shared workplaces for the first time, note that you can
probably find a much better deal.

~~~
woolvalley
Usually its around ~$350/month, even in the expensive bay area.

------
logfromblammo
Is this some kind of coastal culture thing, to add all kinds of stupid, non-
productive crap to your work environment?

Here in flyover country, you can rent an entire suite of multiple private
offices in a strip of class B office-park units, including utilities, for less
than what WeWork is apparently asking for just one private office. And that's
without the insane brand-connected features like having beer kegs at work.

Out here, a foosball table in the office is a red flag. People working on
laptops on couches is a red flag. An untidy kitchenette is a red flag.
Conducting an interview at a noisy restaurant is a double-red flag. (TSB. I
was eating there with my family.) An open office plan is a red flag, unless it
is clear that situation is aspirationally temporary, as the company is trying
for ramen-profitability. People drinking beer at work is a triple-red flag.

I have been in plenty of small-business service company or business incubator
offices (for me, plenty = 2), and they looked just like regular large company
offices, except the employees all worked for different companies and had the
actual keys to their own lockable office. In one of them, instead of a data
center in the secure area in the back of the building, there was a bio-chem
lab. Neither were hard to work in, even in the rent-by-the-desk bullpen,
because it was quiet. The tenants were mainly working from home and using the
rented office only for customer contact, interviews, and the mailing address.

~~~
unreal37
I don't consider Toronto "coastal". If it is, what coast is that exactly?

~~~
dragonwriter
The "Lake Ontario coast"?

------
bayonetz
>A member of the cleaning staff— a young Spanish-speaking woman with a tight
ponytail— was one of the few people actually working. She moved quietly,
picking up the dirty mugs that people had left lying about and stacking them
into the dishwasher. Her shirt was emblazoned with the company slogan: Do What
You Love.

How about that little gem of a closer?

~~~
movedx
I thought that too. What a great closer -- speaks volumes in twelve or so
words.

------
CodeCube
This is definitely the most common response I hear to shared/open offices ...
but dang it, I love them (part time)!

I go into a co-working space once or twice a week, and wfh the rest of the
time. When I'm there, I enjoy being around people who can relate to what I'm
doing (even if it's just as simple as a knowing nod when I comment on a tough
bug I'm troubleshooting). And if I need to focus, headphones easily place me
in my own acoustic palace.

I totally get that everyone is different, and thrives in different
environments ... but don't crap on this type of shared experience as if it's
universally hated by everyone, because it's not.

~~~
marcosdumay
> (part time)

That is a too important distinction to be left on a small parenthesis without
relevance.

Yes, part time shared/open offices are good. I would still argue that real
offices let you create a better interactive environment than those, but they
are perfectly ok for the amount of time you must go out and talk to somebody.

Just don't expect anybody to create anything when forced to work on one of
those full time.

~~~
CodeCube
I parenthesized it on purpose ... because _for me_, it's a small detail;
personally, I really enjoy being in open office environments, even if it was
full time ... and I feel fully productive there. The part time thing is more a
mix of laziness and enjoying going to lunch with my wife ;)

But back to the point I was trying to make, this works _for me_; and I
acknowledge that it doesn't work for others. I was only trying to balance the
discussion such that it's not assumed that _everyone_ despises open office
plans, because it's not universal.

------
ashelmire
My work has a number of private offices, cubicle space, and open space.

There's a funny thing that happens: the private offices are always occupied
and apparently work is getting done in them. The cubicles are a step down,
with those workers stepping out occasionally for some fresh air away from the
office. The open areas are only ever occupied by new employees or not at all.
Nobody wants to work in them. And it's true that my workplace is full of
introverts (basically exclusively). But it's telling, to me, that the offices
are the most productive places.

------
gnclmorais
> WeWork offers freelancers a chic workspace and beer on tap—but are people
> productive?

Not really. That was my experience at a WeWork space in London. It was not
quiet (glass walls), it was hard to focus, social events starting at 4pm (who
finishes work at that time?), and if you end up being close to the common
spaces, near the kitchen… well, I suggest you get a good pair of sound
cancelling headphones.

~~~
LandR
I finish at 4...

But everything else you say is correct. Headphones are a must in a shared
office.

~~~
dorian-graph
From my experience, finishing at 4pm in London is not common.

~~~
isostatic
8-4 for parents, to beat the rush home

10-6 for youngsters, then to the bar to beat the rush home.

~~~
gnclmorais
I wish it were like that on WeWork offices…

------
mv4
Having worked in traditional offices, open offices, at home, at Starbucks, and
at various coworking spaces - I still don't know how to feel about shared
offices. I am using one right now on trial basis, and I can tell once or twice
a week is about right for me. It's great for putting together a marketing
presentation, not so great for coding.

I also ran a tech coworking space for a couple of years. I shut it down. I
will be happy to share what I learned if anyone is interested.

~~~
benjaminasmith
I'd be interested to hear about those experiences running the tech co-working
space.

~~~
mv4
We had a relatively small footprint: 4 offices (2..3 desks each), a conference
room + projector, 10 dedicated desks, plus some shared space for up to 10 more
people. I wanted to focus on tech startups, so we also had a small datacenter
on premises, VPN, and everything was wired with subnets etc. I also made
accelerator deals with Google, Microsoft, and Amazon so we could award cloud
credits to those who needed it. Additionally, we got some lawyers to provide
legal advice to members for free. We wanted to provide a good environment for
building and launching an MVP (and beyond) [1].

What actually happened:

* we did attract a few startups, and we helped them launch

* many people were so early in the process, they had no use for cloud credits (or on-site infrastructure)

* we did a series of free events (with pizza and beer), and those attracted a lot of people - but did not convert to memberships

* we were hoping to get some interest and support from the state (CT) at least in terms of visibility and potential grants for members - but that didn't happen, as the State only wanted to invest in their official incubator in Stamford (which they sank a lot of money into, and ended up evicting the people who ran it [2])

* most trials didn't convert

* several more coworking spaces opened in the area, so people began hopping around

* attracted a few dreamers, who were constantly in pitching mode - and had no desire to actually sit down and build something (also usually the ones with money problems)

Overall, this was a great learning experience.

[1] a writeup someone did in on us back in 2013:
[https://www.smallbizdaily.com/so-youre-thinking-of-
starting-...](https://www.smallbizdaily.com/so-youre-thinking-of-starting-a-
small-business-incubato/)

[2] the State-funded "competitor":
[https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Old-Town-
Hall...](https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Old-Town-Hall-agency-
to-evict-Stamford-Innovation-9963706.php)

------
acd
A better example would to have private offices with a shared space in the
middle for working together.

I think the truth is that office space is very expensive in Sillicon valley
startups. Thus to lower the operating costs shared space is used but it is not
fully productive and has lots of distractions for workers.

Google is probably a company that has actual productivity data about working
in private work spaces vs shared work spaces.

~~~
collyw
I am pretty sure plenty of people would be happy to work from home.

------
finaliteration
I tried working from home five days a week for about a year and I hated it. I
like being in the office and having spur of the moment conversations that lead
to productive brainstorming (rather than the mostly dry Slack or Teams
conversations that occur). That being said, I don’t think I’d an enjoy a
WeWork setup where there is constant buzz and activity. I think balance is key
and finding work that’s flexible where you can possibly even change work
contexts whenever you want (which is something I realize I’m very, very
fortunate to have).

------
philippeback
I hate open offices for being productive. They are cool for chatting and
socializing. My pair of Bose QC20 are a must if I want to get anything done.
Actually I ended up having my own 3 storey building where I can actually
site/lounge/work my way and invite people to come to work with me on an as
needed basis. Productivity is at least 3x vs open office. I go to client
offices to catch up base and be around the people but productive work of mine
occurs elsewhere.

------
turc1656
Am I the only one who has grown to absolutely despise the term "creative" when
used as a type of worker/employee? As in, for example (from the article)
"members of the creative class" and "young creative types". Makes my skin
crawl for some reason. I envision a bunch of people who stand around smelling
each other's farts like they are at a wine tasting.

I realize this comment isn't really productive and doesn't really contribute
to the conversation but am I curious if anyone else hates that term.

~~~
chimpburger
It is quite pretentious.

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avoutthere
I am by far most productive when working alone from home. It isn't even close.

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az123zaz
This narrative seems to be common these days about WeWork:

\- it has a high valuation \- nobody there really works \- everyone there is a
stupid startup that won't pan out \- WeWork is a scam

In the past, I've worked at fortune 50 companies in private office, at
startups in open office, rented space personally at various coworking spaces,
and currently rent a hot desk in a WeWork in Brooklyn.

Where I work, on any given weekday the shared workspace of about 45 desks is
60% full with people working silently or talking very quietly. It is a great
environment for technical work. The music doesn't play in the shared work
space but it does in the common eating area / kitchen where people frequently
do work and talk to one another.

I think this "trash the new unicorn" mentality is fun to write about but in my
experience, WeWork really is better.

One example of something they do extraordinarily well is that their phone
booths actually work and give real privacy. The internet is always perfect.
Things like that matter when you want to be productive. There is paper
shredding service. The mugs are always clean. The snack bar is cheap and
always stocked.

There are also network effects. I frequently have meetings in Manhattan spread
throughout the day. No matter what part of town I'm in, I almost always can
rent a desk at a location nearby for free (or for $25 if I've done it a lot
that month).

This is just my experience but IMO WeWork is definitely worth it. I pay
$350/mo. Maybe it's not for everyone but I am happy giving them my money for
what I get in return.

~~~
fragmede
There's a (currently) $20 billion valuation on the line, expect to see quite a
lot more press (positive and negative) in 2018 as they press towards an IPO.

It's not about "trashing the unicorn" (eg, Dropbox has managed to keep
negative press to a minimum). It's that there's yet to be anything substantive
that examines what people are doing that isn't "a stupid start up that won't
pan out" that justify paying $350/mo for a desk, when a coffee shop will do.

The prejudice is not that that _your_ "stupid start up that won't pan out"
won't, err, pan out, but that eventually the entire industry will collapse and
we'll all have to go back to doing serious work at serious jobs. No more
getting paid to make a dating app for people with dogs with a floppy left ear.

Despite evidence to the contrary, WeWorks isn't selling office space, they're
selling convenience and a lifestyle (two things people are willing to pay a
premium for). If you've got an niche business with revenue that lets you
afford $350/mo, and you're getting value out of WeWorks, good for you! Keep
that niche your secret though.

------
_greim_
This article exploits anti-urban-hipster sentiment in order to replicate
itself across social media. It has no actual data for or against various
office space designs.

------
awl130
My startup leases a big private office and we did it because it made really
good economic sense. no deposit, major curb appeal that impresses potential
clients for zero capex on our part, and flexible in a way in which traditional
leases could never compete. There are now so many weworks in our city that
whenever our team expands we just move to another office across the hall or to
another wework building. Wework is happy to accommodate and roll over our
lease. it's an easy move -- no furniture, just desktops computers and personal
effects - 24 hours tops.

Meanwhile, potential clients walk into the common area, hear the indie rock
and think we're this super high-end, hip, "urban" company filled with creative
young people. The reality is that we only step out into the kitchen and ping
pong tables when we get bored. We have the option to retreat to our sanctuary
any time. It's incredible. Tell me a better solution! There is none!

But as this backlash indicates, the hot desks are the big scam -- essentially
younger, non-salaried individuals who are essentially paying for the privilege
of providing atmosphere and brand for us, the private suite tenants.

Wework gets the valuation, i'm guessing, because in addition to the typical
rental income from the private offices (albeit, these aren't long term leases,
but with scale, they don't have to worry about that), they are collecting
$500/mo from the hot desks in the lobby area, an area that would normally sit
empty. Wow! what a business model. Bravo Wework.

------
lowbloodsugar
>“This is more like a bar or a club than a workspace,” said the local member
of provincial parliament, taking in the scene.

Sounds like a scene from Brave New World. Is everyone on soma?

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creator_lol
Try sharing a completely open office concept with 250 people on one floor,
it's a joke. Now that I have worked in both a office with walls and this open
office concept I can see that people get much more work done in a cubical with
walls or an actual office where you can close a door and focus.

------
juddlyon
I've worked in numerous coworking places across the US, from the local mom-
and-pops to the larger global companies.

All of them have private offices for rent, which curtails the noise issue. All
have meeting rooms to book. Most have phone cubby-holes.

My experience has also been that you can socialize as little or as much as
you'd like, it's up to you. You can attend events, or not. You can drink, or
not.

That said, there are large cultural differences between the younger, startup-
scenester spots and the more diverse small-business ones. The latter usually
skew older and include non-tech businesses like attorneys and realtors. I
prefer these and have enjoyed the "cross-pollination" of ideas and focus on
turning a profit.

------
jlemos
YMMV, but my current workplace sits in a co-working space (although we are big
enough to have our own exclusive office within it) and the noise levels on the
common areas from what I have seen are ok most of the time. No music being
pumped anywhere. The place described in the article sounds like a dystopian
nightmare, but I doubt its the norm...

Also, if you are a freelancer or a tech founder that wants to work on his own
thing, what is the alternative? Working on a coffee shop brings pretty much
the same noise problems + no guarantee of power supply/fast Wifi. Working from
home all the time can get lonely. Renting an office? Too expensive...so co-
working spaces fill a nice niche.

~~~
kerkeslager
Public libraries are a good alternative, too.

------
evanmoran
I've worked at several different co-working spaces and it seems that the
culture either becomes really loud (phone calls and open conversations) or
library silent. Nothing in between seems to last long. I'd love to see this
improve. It's like being in an elevator; it has a social weirdness that's hard
to overcome — if that's even what people want. Finding a way to encourage
conversation in some areas and silence in others would go a long way to making
these places more enjoyable. How to do that? No idea. That's an open question
and my guess is the alcohol centered parties are one attempt at trying to
solve this.

------
rhaps0dy
I work in a shared office and it's OK. But that's just because we all know
that focusing with other people speaking is basically impossible, so we all
try hard to not make noise. If we have to talk we go to a conference room.

------
Gatsky
I once worked in an open plan office with a guy that had Tourette's syndrome.
As you can imagine, for him the open plan office was a particular kind of
torture that should only be reserved for the worst members of humanity.

~~~
loco5niner
I'm curious what it was specifically about his Tourette's that caused him
problems in the open office. I ask because I suspect I have mild Tourette's,
and absolutely hate the open office my work moved us into.

For me it is the incessent people-noise. Loud-laughers, sounds of chewing,
constant self-talk, etc. If it was just light-industrial noise, it wouldn't be
so bad.

------
metalliqaz
Is it me or did the article not provide the answer promised in the title?

------
sokoloff
> _a company offering “non-traditional lifestyle swag” was looking to barter
> its featured deals for business expertise_

That struck me as hilarious. Hat tip to the author.

------
twunde
I always find that WeWork has a very weird vibe. It has all of these companies
but nobody talks to each other. It feels oddly sterile. When I worked out of
General Assembly, the big benefit was that these companies would talk to each
other, make deals or just help each other out with business/tech problems.
Investors would come in to meet one company and would end up talking to a few
more.

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redm
My experience working in a co-working space vs. working independent/remote.

1) I have more meaningful conversations with my team, more organic thought and
creativity occurs, and we grow closer as a team.

2) I get less work done because the distractions are much greater.

------
randomerr
Sounds like a common room in college. How much studying did you get there?

~~~
Piskvorrr
Not a whole lot, library was much better.

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collyw
This sounds a bit like 42 floors. Whatever happened to them? Did they implode
into a black hole with the weight of their own hype?

~~~
meritt
I thought 42floors was just a slightly prettier Craigslist for office space to
rent.

~~~
collyw
They certainly had a shitload of self generated hype on here a few years back.
Then they laid off some people and went remarkably quiet. (I definitely see
some similarities with the Solyent hype wagon, I just didn't hear of them
laying off people yet).

------
orthoganol
Will be buried, but fantastic "fear and loathing in WeWork" kind of article.
Loved it.

WeWork basically parodies itself.

------
zaidf
I admire anyone who can do serious deep work from a WeWork location.

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cup-of-tea
I "work" in an open office type space. My ears are filled with people on the
phone or just talking about work they could do. In my peripheral vision is a
colleague and various other movements. I'm here to do only very simple work
because I can't think very deeply. Any serious work is done at home where I am
many times more productive. For some work this type of setup might be fine,
but for anything resembling engineering it's impossible.

~~~
kerkeslager
I've worked as a software engineer for over a decade and most of that time was
spent in open office spaces. I am most productive in that environment.

I don't doubt that you are more productive in a different environment, but
it's a pretty big leap to assume that every engineer is going to be productive
in the same environment. Different people work different ways, and the answer
is to find a workspace that suits you, not try to apply the work environment
that works for you to the entire industry.

~~~
opo
There is pretty much overwhelming research that people are more productive and
healthy at work when they have some privacy and don't have distractions. One
example - a study published in the Journal of Environmental Psychology of more
than 40,000 workers in 300 US office buildings:

"...Enclosed private offices clearly outperformed open-plan layouts in most
aspects of IEQ (Indoor Environmental Quality), particularly in acoustics,
privacy and the proxemics issues. Benefits of enhanced 'ease of interaction'
were smaller than the penalties of increased noise level and decreased privacy
resulting from open-plan office configuration."

[https://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/science-just-proved-
that-...](https://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/science-just-proved-that-open-
plan-offices-destroy-productivity.html)

This article talks about some of the other research on the health effects and
other effects on productivity:

[https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-open-
office-...](https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-open-office-trap)

>...and the answer is to find a workspace that suits you, not try to apply the
work environment that works for you to the entire industry.

Unfortunately, the trend seems to be to apply the open office design to all
environments which is hurting people. The best environments I have seen are
when there are individual offices with plenty of open areas and conference
rooms for people to meet.

~~~
kerkeslager
> There is pretty much overwhelming research that...

Okay, but general studies that lump everyone together as if everyone works the
same doesn't really address the point that people have different work styles.

> The best environments I have seen are when there are individual offices with
> plenty of open areas and conference rooms for people to meet.

A mixed shared/private workspace is exactly what I've proposed elsewhere in
the thread.

------
megaman22
I think I'd rather commit seppuku or eat Tide pods than work in an open office
as described. Hopefully there is an eighth circle of hell in the afterlife
reserved for management that inflicts such things on their workforce, full of
gibbering, odoriferous, chronically sneezing demons that will pelt them with
whiteboard markers and constantly ask for TPS reports.

~~~
specialist
People clipping their nails in public is my kryptonite.

Tuneless whistling is also irritating.

------
kayall
What do y'all think of the effect of 'beer on tap' on this atmosphere at
Wework?

Do any of you like to drink while working?

