
Black Girls Code launching in Miami - edw519
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/25/3711112/black-girls-code-launching-in.html
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crazygringo
It's clear that the goals are extremely laudable -- to help a disadvantaged
group gain experience.

But this indeed asks the question, which as far as I can tell is completely
unaddressed on their website: why create a group that excludes others by sex
and race? How do they explain to a black 14-year-old that their group isn't
going to help _him_? Or a Hispanic 14-year-old girl? Or any 14-year-old whose
parents are below the poverty line, who also wants to learn to code?

Why can't we just help disadvantaged youths _in general_?

I mean, limiting to a certain location (Miami) is fine. Limiting the number of
students who can participate is fine. But I really have a hard time wrapping
my head around the idea of telling a black boy that they won't help _him_ ,
because of the gender he was born as.

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seanv
very good point - I imagine though that it's MAINLY to get attention from
groups that would donate to such a cause... The more niche the demographic the
easier it is to raise money from institutes who aim to help those demos. So
short answer, money probably...

We can look at a silver lining and hope they expand into other demos, we will
see i guess.

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jimzvz
and the problem with this is that the groups have a conflict of interest, if
they do solve the problem that they are addressing then no one will continue
to fund them. So the only way that they can stay in business is to make sure
that the problem isn't solved, gets worse or is seen to get worse. Erin Pizzey
discusses how this has happened to feminist organisations in this video[1].

[1] -
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5AOj6EhRuY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5AOj6EhRuY)

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loso
I don't care about the geopolitical implications of a group like this. I don't
care what message it sends to other groups. All I care about is that it help
those girls who attend the event. Why? Because I know movements like this can
work.

As a black kid growing up I had no tech role models to look up to.It starts to
get in your head that you can't possibly have a career in tech because you see
no one that looks like you. It is similar to a popular joke in black
neighborhoods for decades about "ain't no way you will see a black president"
or "they will shoot him the first day he is elected". If you're not exposed to
it, even if it is really out there, then you will tend to doubt if you can do
it. It wasn't until I was older that I learned about minorities in tech. I was
exposed to the internet at 18 and from then on split my time between working
security in the clubs, going to college for business management and learning
how to code at night when the clubs let out.

Exposure to possibility is very important part of development. So as long as
these girls are getting that exposure and it helps them achieve their dream I
will worry about the ramifications later.

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elwell
I wasn't thinking about race; now I am. I believe minority focused groups,
such as this, perpetuate racial discrimination. Can't we all just be one big
group of humans? Disagree with my viewpoint? Please comment before you
downvote. I'm willing to rethink my views.

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MichaelGG
This thread isn't going to resolve anything on this "issue"; just look up
affirmative action. There's the logic you provide, which is solid. The
counterargument is that certain groups currently have a major disadvantage and
specifically targeting them improves things, despite it excluding on race or
other characteristics. In this case, it may be that "black girls" wouldn't
feel comfortable or would be significantly outnumbered in a general "group of
humans" so excluding people provides a net benefit in this case.

Another view is that private groups should be able to do whatever they want,
and discrimination is only a problem when it's a problem. If "black girls"
grew to dominate the industry or significantly change things, then it's become
problematic. Obviously that's a rather subjective measurement hence all the
"debate".

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danellis
If black girls don't feel comfortable learning with people who aren't, how are
they going to cope with a job in the currently white-male dominated industry
anyway? Sheltering people doesn't seem like good preparation for reality.

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jlgreco
I don't think we should necessarily expect children to be able to cope with
the range of social situations that we expect adults to handle.

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tomblomfield
I really value initiatives that teach people to code, and I've taught at a few
myself. But I wonder at the value of this increasing focus on certain
minorities. Should we have classes focussed on teaching gay people to code?

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nostromo
I take your point, but in my experience gay men are over-represented in tech,
not under-represented.

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Bsharp
This is great, thanks for sharing! Hopefully it's able to stick - I live in
Miami and there is little-to-no tech culture around.

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xpop2027
You have to check out one of the Refresh Miami events, tech meetup once a
month!

refreshmiami.com

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Bsharp
Oh awesome, I'll have to check some of these out! Apparently I haven't looked
hard enough.

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alasano
While it may seem on the surface that a racially/gender motivated coding class
is superfluous, I think that the founders are seeking to appeal to the
complete opposite of the coder stereotype (aka white male).

Raising awareness and breaking down stereotypes is a good thing and it seems
to me that it's hard to do without seeming like some type of segregation
whilst doing it.

Empowering people isn't about making them better than others, but simply
raising everyone to the same level.

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DanielStraight
This is an organization started by a black woman who has learned to code for
helping black girls learn to code. Can we just give her the benefit of the
doubt and assume she knows more about reaching people with similar experiences
than we do?

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pekk
The idea is so innocuous. Nobody is being hurt by it. Maybe some people will
be helped. It doesn't prevent anyone else from being helped the same way.
There's no real use stirring up a shitstorm about it.

Some political zealots are ruining nice things for the rest of us because all
they care about is their own ideology.

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bayesianhorse
I'm a bit sceptical of initiatives that carry their ethnic and gender
requirements in their name, but I guess those initiatives can't exactly hurt
"diversity" either.

But even "diversity" isn't the right moniker for this movement. I think
"undiversity" or segregation, especially in tech is the result of "biased
sampling" for all sorts of reasons. Hard to counter, but necessary!

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tomasien
I'm really, really worried about this thread. Holding my breathe.

(Edit: for context, when I posted this, there was 1 comment by Bsharp.)

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consonants
Threads like this provide a moment to gaze into the abyss

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tomasien
Oh my god this turned to shit before I even hit post on my comment. Amazing.

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consonants
If this stayed on the frontpage we would be swimming in gold. Oh well, time to
read them all and lose some faith in humanity

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fidotron
It's very true that if you aren't based in SV but visit it regularly this is
something that jars every damn time. Doing something positive about it is
great.

The other side is the rest of us should see it as an opportunity, given that
the effective monoculture in SV gives them a sort of blindness to certain
product areas.

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fchollet
I never thought of SV as a monoculture, when it comes to nationality and race
(it does suffer from a bad case of groupthink though...)

In SV you will find engineers, designers and managers from all over the world
--Russia, China, Europe, etc., and when it comes to race you will find very
large numbers of highly successful Asians and Indians. Likely more so than in
other US industry.

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saltyknuckles
What you just wrote didn't include black or hispanics. So now you have Black
Girls Code.

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fidotron
Precisely. It's also struck me that the vast majority of the female engineers
seem to work at a tiny handful of companies.

For example, Google is quite diverse, the attendees at I/O were not.

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jlebrech
I believe such group can become a subdivision of the greater coding community
rather than a segregation of it. they can learn among themselves and still be
part of the greater community.

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hjw
This exchange of opinions is not constructive. Helping people is never wrong.
The only objectionable part about this is that it isn't helping everyone, but
only a select group.

Helping a select group could build a sense of community, or it could
potentially segregate groups of individuals. But it is undeniably beneficial
for the individuals that the service is targeting.

If anyone wants to take the initiative to help disadvantaged youth in general
I'm sure no one would object.

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roderick3427
Why is it when we talk about gender, race, and technology together we get so
bent out of shape? It’s a fact that in the US the tech scene is predominantly
made up of white males. Because of that we have some people who want to add
some diversity to our community. And these people have designed and built
special programs to address this. Try and remember what got you interested in
the tech scene may not work for the next kid.

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nicholassmith
This is awesome, targeting minorities early is a fantastic way to get them
into the tech scene. Kudos to them, I really hope it works well.

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sn
One of my friends very young girls are black. My friend is raising them to be
geeks and the girls are unhappy about how few super heroes look like them.
Without programs like this, presumably their distress will extend to other
areas as they grow older. Kudos to Kimberly for starting this.

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tlarkworthy
Hopefully they will make tons of money and make coding cool so that girls in
general might want to code too.

