
Microsoft to stop producing Windows versions - ahelwer
http://m.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340
======
Redoubts
This was news around January, I thought. Why are all the tech sites playing
this up now?

I feel like i could reply to half the top level posts with this link:

[http://blogs.windows.com/business/2015/01/30/windows-10-for-...](http://blogs.windows.com/business/2015/01/30/windows-10-for-
enterprise-more-secure-and-up-to-date/)

>January 30, 2015

> this is much more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded
> to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current via Windows Update for
> the supported lifetime __of the device – at no cost.

>We think of this as Windows as a Service

>we are introducing a new approach for business customers, which we are
referring to as the Current branch for Business. By putting devices on the
Current branch for Business, enterprises will be able to receive feature
updates after their quality and application compatibility has been assessed in
the consumer market, while continuing to receive security updates on a regular
basis. This gives IT departments’ time to start validating updates in their
environments the day changes are shipped broadly to consumers, or in some
cases earlier, if they have users enrolled in the Windows Insider Program.

>Based on what we are hearing from customers, we expect most will take a mixed
approach in how they keep their Windows 10 systems up to date. They will
likely target a different pace of updates for different users and systems,
depending on the specific business needs of each group.

etc.

~~~
castell
There are alternatives to "Windows 10 as a service" \- WINE on Mac/Linux and
ReactOS.

ReactOS is an attempt to build an open source version of Windows XP/7\. It
uses source code from WINE and it aims for better compatibility with legacy
apps and drivers by developing a WinNT-like OS-Kernel:
[http://www.reactos.org/screenshots](http://www.reactos.org/screenshots)

~~~
gambiting
It's not an alternative. At least not for a lot of companies. I work at a
games studio and we exclusively use Windows - PS4, Xbox One, Wii U sdks and
tools only work on Windows and only with Visual Studio(well, PS4 and Xbox
One), and it's extremely unlikely that you would get them to work under Wine.
So now our company will have to pay a fee to Microsoft to continue using
windows, instead of a single flat payment when we bought our hardware.

Also - yes I know they are saying they will support Windows 10 for the
lifetime of the device it was bought with,but I doubt it will work like this
for enterprise users.

~~~
castell
ReactOS re-implements the WinNT series (XP+) OS kernel (you can compare it
with UNIX vs. Linux) and WINE provides the user mode layer.

Visual Studio 2010 and the dotNet Framework work fine in WINE:
[https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=applicatio...](https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=892)
. VS run as early as 2003 in ReactOS:
[http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/wordpress/wp-
con...](http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/wordpress/wp-
content/uploads/2013/11/Screen-Shot-2013-11-29-at-7.27.55-AM.png)

As ReactOS also supports the Windows graphic card driver from NVidia, AMD and
Intel - it's for sure an upcoming alternative to Windows.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS) .
Beside that more and more Indie-game-developers support Mac & Linux (PR via
Humble Bundle), and beside Indie: GOG and Steam
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(hardware_platfor...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_\(hardware_platform\))
) are going strong too.

~~~
toddan
Visual studio 2010 and dotNet surely works fine under wine. But there are lots
of small cornerstones in the tools and software companies use that does not
work so great.

If there was an real free alternative to windows where all the specialized
software worked i am dead sure companies would start to use it. But at this
moment there is no such alternative.

~~~
frik
Ask yourself, what's better to have: a showstopper bug in a closed software or
in a free open source software?

Bugs are often easy to locate and fix, if one can reproduce it. A small
donation usually helps open projects.

~~~
gambiting
If I am working with a latest, super secret revision of PS4 sdk that I can't
even legally talk about, how would I ask developers of Wine for help if that
SDK doesn't work with their software? I can't.

But Microsoft and Sony will be both legally bound to help, in certain cases
they could even pay for delays if their software is at fault. I would much
prefer to have a showstopper bug in closed software, thank you.

~~~
bad_user
I'm pretty sure that Sony wouldn't like Microsoft to find out about their
super secret PS4 sdk, as after all, they are direct competitors. So you can't
seek Microsoft's help for something that happens with Sony's super secret PS4
sdk.

Or am I missing something?

~~~
toddan
Why would you ask microsoft for help if it where sonys software that was
failing??

------
Sir_Substance
I'm not happy with this. I waited on XP until they got over vista, and I'm
still on 7 while I watch in bemusement at the windows 8.1 nonsense.

Now, with windows 10, my security updates will come bundled with my unwanted
OS changes. I doubt microsoft will let people opt out of unwanted cloud-based
security risks or crazy interface experiments.

~~~
mark_l_watson
What do you like better in Windows 7 than 8.1? Seriously, I have been a long
time OS X and Linux user, and 8.1 has won me back to the Microsoft fold. I
still use Linux and OSX, but WIndows 8.1 is now something I frequently use. I
was not impressed by Windows 7.

So, serious question, what do you like better about Windows 7.

~~~
bad_user
I'm an Ubuntu Linux and OS X user and have been trying to like Windows 8.1 in
the last weeks. The problems I have in no particular order ...

\- network management in Windows 7 was usable, whereas in 8.1 it is totally
fucked

\- Microsoft accounts are on their way to become mandatory, as creating a
regular account is not user friendly and there's a big and scary warning when
you go that route; they are basically trying to resurrect Windows Live ID

\- Microsoft has started to force people on using their products - I could not
figure out a way to turn OneDrive off completely, or to use anything other
than Bing as the search engine in their "Search Everywhere" (this also happens
on Windows Phone)

\- I haven't seen a "modern Windows" app that I like, they are all pieces of
crap, including stuff from Microsoft; modern Skype for example is lacking
crucial functionality; their app store is filled with trademark-violating
malware and I've never seen such a low quality app store

\- from a usability perspective Windows 8 is a failure - there's something
inherently different about a PC with 21 inch monitors, keyboard and mouse,
versus a tablet, yet Windows tries to unify both worlds, becoming hostile in
the process - see this funny video on the subject -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-
qf1jo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo)

\- of course, you can totally ignore the "modern Windows" side of the coin for
now, except that's where Windows is headed

\- I bought the standard edition, then I discovered that I needed the Pro
version to get disk encryption or to connect to it through Remote Desktop;
plus you need the Enterprise edition to make it boot from an USB stick -
apparently Microsoft considers disk encryption and Remote Desktop to be meant
for businesses and not for personal usage

\- for software developers Cygwin is the only thing that makes Windows
tolerable and Cygwin is awful

The only thing that Windows is good for is for playing games. I'm only keeping
it around for playing Heroes of M&M 3 (the classic one) and Path of Exile.

And every time I try Windows, I end up appreciating just how awesome Linux is.

~~~
mark_l_watson
Thank you! That was a good answer. Just one thing: OneDrive works well, if I
may, I suggest giving it a try. Re: software development: I just live
inIntelliJ for Clojure, Ruby, Java, JavaScript, Typescript, Clojurescript, and
Python. IntelliJ runs about the same on every platform. I write my books now
with markdown and leanpub, so for writing also operating system choice does
not matter.

True confession: I tend to cycle slowly through OSX, Linux, and Windows 8.1
because I like a little change. Similar to programming languages. My strange
way to have fun :-)

~~~
kijin
Does OneDrive work well with half a million files taking up half a TB of space
across multiple devices?

Last time I tried it, I could never be sure when my files had synched.
OneDrive would just spin in the background, not even using much CPU or network
bandwidth, and with no indication of what the hell it was doing, while the
file I just edited remained unsynched for hours.

For a product that wanted people to give it the entire content of their hard
drives, OneDrive was woefully inadequate at handling large amounts of data. I
ended up copying files manually to the device where I needed them to be,
relegating OneDrive to the role of an eventually consistent backup.

When my (paid) subscription was up, I canceled it and never used it again. Now
I'm much happier with a 1TB plan at SpiderOak.

~~~
seanp2k2
I've tried BTSync, Syncthing, Dropbox, and rsync -avuz. The only thing which
works consistently and doesn't take up 100% CPU for hours when working with
many small files is rsync. Hopefully Syncthing will get there, but I wasn't
impressed initially.

------
beloch
The obvious question is, how are we going to pay for this?

With no periodic releases of new versions, it seems that Windows 10 will
either be a subscription based service or, in all likelihood, a collection of
subscription based services and extra features with a free, but spartan, core.

It's an interesting move, but I suspect MS is severely underestimating the
backlash that will exist against monthly OS subscription payments.

~~~
bunderbunder
I don't think Microsoft makes much money off of shrinkwrap copies of Windows.
Almost everyone I know just sticks with the version of Windows that came with
the computer, and when they switch to a newer version it's because they bought
a new computer that comes with it preinstalled.

The probable advantage to Microsoft is that they have a less disjointed
platform to support. For example apps released for the app store don't run on
Windows 7 and earlier, and apps that work on Windows 7 and earlier can't be
put on the app store. That sort of thing has been an enormous success killer
for some of Microsoft's newer business initiatives, and that in turn means
it's a threat to the long-term success of the company.

It might also save on development costs. 3-year release cycles mean you're at
great risk of sinking tons and tons of resources into gold plating ideas that
ultimately bomb on the market. This new approach means they can fail fast,
which means they should be able to produce value more efficiently.

~~~
zanny
They were still making $20 - $30 per license sold from major vendors like HP
and Dell. They move millions of units per year. That is a lot of revenue to
throw away.

~~~
sukilot
They aren't throwing away OEM revenue. Only OS upgrade revenue.

------
patrickmclaren
Off-topic rant: I used to live in a remote area, with very little
connectivity. Upgrading tech used to involve traveling to a retailer, and
buying the latest version off the shelf.

More recently, it involes traveling to a solid internet connection,
downloading incremental updates and distributing them on location.

In Australia, satellite internet was subsidized in the 2000s (and easily
eligible). Now, although still subsidized to some extent, you're on your own
if you're on a supported line but your telco doesn't have the capacity.

It's a damn nightmare when large software is distributed in this manner for
people with insufficient network access.

Note, this experience is from a small family business point of view, without
dedicated tech support.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Well, this is part of why Microsoft has Service Packs. These consolidate
existing updates as well as adding new features.

~~~
patrickmclaren
Indeed! The frequency of Service Packs post-Windows 10 will be key for remote
users. I haven't looked into this recently, I wonder how easy it is for end-
users to roll their own.

------
someear
Entirely an enterprise play - gone are those firms that essentially say "we'll
stick with XP". They'll either be forced into a subscription model or will
switch off to another platform.

This is also a huge win for not having the need to support super old OSes,
which is a huge tax in not just support cost, but also testing and designing
for backward compatibility.

~~~
aleem
I think this goes far and beyond Enterprise play or anything of that nature.
There is a lot at stake here.

This is a response to a bigger paradigm shift that is the web and software as
a service and Mobiles.

If you are on Windows XP and windows 7 rolls out, you have the option of
upgrading, not upgrading or switching to a Mac (or similar).

Gmail versus outlook is another good example. With Outlook you would need to
shell out big bucks and wait for the next major release. A three year release
cycle has really got to suck for the team. If your team's major feature X
didn't make it in the current release, you could very well end up waiting
another three years. Gmail's releases by contrast are liberating.

The Chrome browser versus IE is another glaringly obvious misstep. One doesn't
even care about version numbers anymore and releases indiscriminately while
the other feels like an antiquated behemoth that rears it's ugly head every
few years and then goes back into hibernation for years. It's a shame, really.

The mobile landscape has shifted to something similar. My upgrades on iOS come
seamlessly and effortlessly. Apple can push whatever it wants down upgrade
pipeline without costs.

For years desktop companies have relied on pushing the hardware limits to
force users to upgrade their hardware, followed by the operating system and
consequently all the software running atop that OS. It has been a tremendous
boon for every Windows-based software company, almost guaranteeing fresh
inflows every three years. So this is going to have an impact on the entire
ecosystem.

From a developer's perspective:

Software rewrites cause regression. Microsoft has been regressing all over the
place, for years now, most prominently with their Windows releases. For anyone
who doesn't write software for a living, regression happens typically when you
rewrite a piece of code and in doing so reintroduce old edge conditions or
have to re-tweak all the features around it. Only after that does the new
rewrite start paying dividends.

Continuous release cycles sidestep the regression issue to some extent by
making the iterations smaller and the features less jarring for the users
(Windows 7).

As a consumer:

I like the AppStore model because it doesn't charge me for versions (I know
that might note bode well for developers because lifetime revenue per app
becomes fairly static. A good friend of mine is just completing a rewrite of
his app and his entire existing user base will probably end up getting it for
free. However, this is still the option of IAP, product SKUs or subscription
models).

~~~
mchaver
I think the biggest problem I have with the App Store model is that it seems
to go hand in hand with planned obsolescence. Older versions of programs are
no longer available for download (maybe not true for all app stores?) and
older hardware gets quickly forgotten.

I still use an iPhone4 and my biggest mistake was upgrading to iOS7 (I suppose
I could jail break it and downgrade it but doesn't that make it more of a pain
for development?). It would be nice if there was an option to downgrade via
Apple, but all old versions seem to get thrown out. That would not have been
be a problem with the previous models of updating because I would have a
physical copy of the software.

I understand that they just want to support the latest hardware because it
makes things a lot easier for them and keeps costs down a lot, but it just
seems so wasteful to purposefully break hardware with an upgrade.

If there was a choice between paid upgrades (with access to previous versions)
and free forced upgrades, I would pick the former, but it seems like things
are moving toward the latter.

Edit: "That would be a problem..." corrected to "That would not have been a
problem..."

~~~
rimantas
I am sure that a) now actual hardware was actually broken by upgrade to iOS7
and b) nobody forced you to install it. OTOH I also had iPhone 4 with iOS 7,
no problem.

------
bkurtz13
So are we going to be seeing just Windows 10 minor versions from now on? Maybe
they could just shorten the name to WinOS 10, and in a year they can release
WinOS 10.1.

Maybe the minor versions could all be named after something interesting, like
different species of large cats, or Washington area landmarks?

WinOS 10.10 Rainier?

------
vruiz
I see 2 possible scenarios.

1) as others are suggesting, they'll adopt Apple's versioning model putting
everything under the windows 10 umbrella.

2) they are setting the table for a rebranding/replacement of Windows in the
same fashion as they are doing with IE.

~~~
nathanaldensr
I agree with #2. I think Microsoft is likely producing a new operating system
as we speak--one that hopefully is focused on security first. Perhaps a
realization of the Singularity OS is coming. OS APIs running managed code,
perhaps? The future will certainly be interesting for the Windows ecosystem.

~~~
Mahn
Windows as a brand is still way too big, and unlike IE its reputation is okay
and its market share huge, Microsoft has more to lose than to win rebranding
Windows. I don't see it happening, but IMO there's no reason why Windows can't
be the new Windows eventually.

~~~
smitherfield
Vista and 8 did do a great deal of damage to Windows' reputation. (I'd say
somewhat undeserved in the former case, and there are plenty of people who
will defend the latter. I'm sure it's great on the Surface).

That said, I'd agree that it'd be a bad move to rebrand Windows just yet. Then
again, DOS was a well-known and well-liked brand too.

------
kossmoboleat
Funny, isn't that exactly the same thing Apple does?

~~~
olympus
The rolling/incremental release is something that Apple does, but it's not
like Apple is the only company doing it. Several Linux distros follow the same
release model, and other software (not just OSes) does it too - MATLAB
switched to this style model years ago, and it is nice at work to have
something that is never more than 6 months out of date.

The only downside is that you have to really plan out deprecating features.
It's easy to drop features when going from major release to major release, but
in a rolling update, you need to give developers a heads up that things are
about to change and give them time to fix things in their code.

~~~
kaybe
We dropped MATLAB because the communal version refuses to work without
internet connection (standard in the field) and we cannot afford a licence for
all field laptops, where they will be used very little (but still to do things
that need to be done).

~~~
aylons
So, what did you put in place? GNU Octave?

~~~
kaybe
Python, mainly. Some people still use older R scripts. It's kind of hard to
make people stick to the same language when there is no real common code base
(we're scientists).

------
mholt
So this refers just to the branding of Windows, right? Unless they've figured
out a way to replace versioning, surely there will still be "versions" to hint
at compatibility and mark certain upgrades for the sake of developers.

~~~
neolefty
For sure -- Microsoft needs to keep Windows advancing, but businesses will
remain cautious and delay rollouts of major upgrades.

So there will still be major versions, each with their own security patches
etc. -- I don't think there's any way around that.

At least this lets Microsoft keep more people up to date and minimize version
skew -- "You want to upgrade, we want you to upgrade ... by all means go ahead
and upgrade!"

------
Karunamon
Another unanswered question is how the "supported lifetime of the device" is
going to work for people who build their own systems. Is the freebie license
that people are going to get for upgrading only going to be good on that one
machine?

If that's truly the case, I'm not at all looking forward to having to re-buy a
license for a different machine when the one I'm on finally lets out the magic
smoke, moreso given Microsoft's previous arbitrary activation rules on what
constitutes a "different machine".

------
ThinkBeat
I can see this in the consumer space perhaps. They would need a lot of
marketing to get people to pay up for a monthly / yearly subscription though.
I figure that is how they will make money.

I can see consumers being annoyed have to pay every month to use the computer
now. With the current versioned releases the consumer has a choice whether to
pay for the upgrade or not.

In the enterprise space I dont see how this will work. There are plenty of
reasons that some companies are still clinging to Windows XP. For a large
company to give up control over exactly what is on each computer and be able
to plan long term is a non starter. Would we then see yearly "cumulative
packs" being offered that can be tested prior to release?

Would there be a central tool provided by Microsoft for the enterprise
customers that will allow them to control the exact feature versions, fixes
etc for every computer centrally and that way to cumulative upgrades?

I would love for Microsoft to come out with a new Next Generation Operating
system that breaks compatibility even more than Windows NT did back in the
day. I think its long overdue but unfortunately i don't see it happening
anytime soon.

They are investing a lot now in trying to use as much of the codebase as
possible across all of their targeted devices. I

~~~
davidgerard
> I can see consumers being annoyed have to pay every month to use the
> computer now. With the current versioned releases the consumer has a choice
> whether to pay for the upgrade or not.

Yeah, I'm wondering if Canonical's marketing department is readying the
champagne.

~~~
PebblesHD

      >2016
      >Year of the linux desktop?

~~~
davidgerard
Seriously, the year of the Linux desktop was 2007. That's when netbooks came
along and Microsoft actually had to compete on price for Windows.

------
hackuser
With the entire stack from the OS to browser changing on a frequent basis
(with the exception of some Internet protocols), with the changes being
uncoordinated between stack components (e.g., Windows may change its video
codec on Monday and the game's video subsystem might be updated on Tuesday,
with no coordination between them), what will developers target? How will
Microsoft deliver reliability to customers?

~~~
simoncion
Oh, I dunno. Folks who write Linux software seem to cope well enough with
rolling-release distros. Moreover, MSFT's SxS assembly stuff means that they
can keep old versions of software around for back-compat.

Anyway, devs will know what was components were released on a particular date,
and target _those_ components. It's not rocket science. :)

------
Udo
Good. I'm not a Windows person, but I think discrete major versioning is an
anachronism left over from pre-internet times, especially if a company's
internal processes are bound to those major releases there will be a lot of
friction from that factor alone. Continuous development and deployment is
probably the more rational choice for a lot of software, including operating
systems.

~~~
silverbax88
Actually it was a great marketing tactic to get people to think their existing
Windows was 'old' and they needed to get the newest one. That's why they went
to using years (Windows 95) because every consumer knows if they have the
current year or not. But Microsoft started missing those 'year' deadlines and
then went back to numbers, and THEN more people starting getting hip to the
fact that some Windows versions were worse than than the version they already
had, and here we are - Microsoft still splashing around trying to figure out
how to make their mobile OS work on desktops and how to charge people for it.
They've been trying since the 90s and haven't figured it out yet.

------
bitJericho
I will say right now I will never pay a subscription to windows. I'll switch
back to Linux even though I feel like as a whole Linux has stagnated for at
least the last decade in the desktop arena.

~~~
antod
The Linux Desktop has many problems, but I'm not sure stagnation is one of
them.

If anything things are churning a little too much, and this is before the
Wayland/Mir transitions have started to kick off yet.

~~~
bitJericho
Yeah all Linux offers us is more libraries and more APIs. Where are the
applications? Why are there so many cli tools with no GUI interface. Desktop
Linux is so far behind. I used Linux for about a year primarily and when I
finally got frustrated enough I switched to windows 8 and realized that the
Linux desktop experience is garbage in comparison.

As a server os I have no complaints though.

~~~
castell
KDE 1-3 and Gnome 2 were great. But then something went horrible wrong in
their UX- and UI-designer-mindset. Similar to Windows 95-Vista/7 had a really
nice UX and UI, but the Metro/Modern-UI (WinPhone7+ and Win8+) is just
tasteless, awful and with crazy color choices.

------
orionblastar
Microsoft is getting into the software subscription model.

Remember Office 365? You don't own a copy of Office, you only rent it per year
and when updates come out you get the updates as long as you keep paying.

Windows 10 is going to be a software subscription model. They'll most likely
have a free upgrade version but it is limited in features. If you want more
features you will have to buy a subscription.

They already announced a Windows 10.1 codenamed Redstone. So each Windows
update will have a 10 in front of it for now on. Will Microsoft charge for
upgrading to 10.1? Who knows? Instead of service packs, they just do what
Apple does and add a new number after the 10 and call in a minor version or
whatever.

I got a feeling pirated Windows users will get a free update that is basically
a Starter Edition with limits on it, and they have to buy a subscription to
get out of the limited version.

~~~
diminoten
It's _much_ more likely they'll follow the OS X model of free updates forever,
once you buy the OS.

~~~
orionblastar
Apple bundles the OS with the hardware. Once you buy a Mac, you get free OSX
updates until they no longer support your model for the new OSX versions. The
cost of OSX is bundled in the price of the Mac, which is why Macs cost more
than PCs.

Microsoft cannot do that because OEMs sell PCs and bundle Windows with it. A
totally different business model than Apple has. Steve Ballmer tried to copy
the Apple Business Model with Surface Tablets and the Microsoft Store, and he
failed.

~~~
wvenable
I don't see it as totally different. The _vast_ majority of Windows users get
their license with their PC purchase. That's where Microsoft makes the bulk of
their money. I suspect most users never upgrade from that version unless they
buy a new PC. So giving free upgrades is not a big loss for Microsoft; it was
never a big income generator.

~~~
orionblastar
New Upgrades usually cost between $40 and $100 for the upgrade DVD.

I bought Windows 8 Pro upgrade for $40 when it came out.

Microsoft might give Windows 10 out for free to make money on the Windows
Store that sells apps, movies, music, and other things.

~~~
wvenable
I've paid money for Windows updates as well but I know I'm in the minority.
The vast majority of consumers don't do it. The vast majority of businesses
have their own licensing agreements.

~~~
orionblastar
Which is why the Enterprise editions are not eligible for free upgrades to
Windows 10. They want businesses to do their licensing directly with
Microsoft.

------
cm2187
The only thing that worries me with this approach is what if the great minds
behind the Windows 8 UI strike again? Right now I could try windows 8 and 10
in a VM and make a decision on whether I want to switch from Windows 7. With
that approach everyone will be Microsoft's Guinea pig.

~~~
na85
That's what they want. A unified user base paying monthly fees.

------
jeena
I use Arch which does the rolling release thingy and I love it.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
The big reason why rolling release works so well on Arch is the assumption
that the user is smart, so there are several difficult tasks which are pushed
over onto the user (like handling non-trivial conflicts of software that the
user may not have directly installed, e.g. libgl, handling exceptional
circumstances, being able to recover after a failed update, ensuring the
system is updated regularly, knowing when a reboot is needed etc.) A more
mainstream OS has to automate these things.

~~~
velodrome
Agreed. Arch requires a lot of maintenance. Ubuntu, just click update and you
don't have to worry about it (until the next LTS).

Personally, I like the rolling model. Chromebook is probably best example for
regular users.

~~~
1_player
I moved to Arch because just clicking update on Ubuntu more often than not
botched the upgrade somewhere. And I'm a power user.

If I had a penny every time I had to help a friend with a failed Ubuntu
upgrade...

~~~
72deluxe
You "CLICKED" on upgrade? And you call yourself a power user!

Why did you not type it into the CLI? If not a runlevel 3 perhaps with a
tiling window manager.

I jest :-)

~~~
velodrome
I am on Arch. FTW.

 _sudo pacman -Syu;_

------
derefr
I would be intrigued by an Adobe Creative Cloud equivalent for Microsoft
products. Especially if it meant that a subscription was _per-person_ ,
instead of per-machine.

This would work especially well coupled with the global "floating identities"
introduced through signing in with your Microsoft Account. The image I would
have is of Windows being automatically updated either way, but preventing
sign-in to Microsoft Accounts whose subscriptions have lapsed (save for some
limited kiosk functionality related to renewing the subscription, and local
administrator access for fixing Internet connectivity et al.)

~~~
7952
Such a model would create an amazing marketing opportunity for a Linux based
OS. Instead of paying an annoying monthly subscription you get a free office
system built in. Not including such basic functionality with the OS is like
selling a phone without batteries. Suddenly Linux becomes a premium product
with lots of high quality software included compared to the annoying app store
you get with Windows.

~~~
derefr
In other words, it would force all the people currently _pirating_ Windows and
Office to actually decide between the products on offer based on their
previously-merely-nominal market positions. (Which is, indeed, what Creative
Cloud has done for Adobe.)

------
higherpurpose
How does that work exactly? Will they require a subscription? I have a hard
time believing most Windows users who right now _think_ they are getting
"Windows for free" with their laptop and never have to worry about it again,
would agree to pay Microsoft even $1 a month for it.

If there is no subscription then how will they charge users - per "major
update"? Like some sort of Windows 10.1? What would happened to the Windows 10
users who don't want to pay for that update then? Do they still get security
fixes?

~~~
giaour
Microsoft has already softened their pricing strategy by offering Windows for
free on small tablets and by not charging for the upgrades from Windows 8 to
8.1 or to 10.

Perhaps they don't see Windows as the cash cow that it once was and will make
all upgrades free.

~~~
dordoka
Actually, they even include Windows 7, not only 8 or 8.1 [0]. I guess that
"for the first year" will probably be extended as well...

Edit: if this [1] reuters article is true (I couldn't find a reference on
Microsoft's site), they are also including _pirated_ versions...

[0] [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-
us/windows-10/about](http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about)

[1] [http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/18/us-microsoft-
china...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/18/us-microsoft-china-
idUSKBN0ME06A20150318)

~~~
bad_user
This is because 8 and 8.1 are a downgrade compared to 7 and weren't received
well. Consider that Windows XP has a bigger market share than 8 and 8.1
combined.

------
quotemstr
What will GetVersionEx start returning? dwMinorVersion is 32 bits wide, so
Windows 10 can live for quite a while. I look forward to Windows 10.34124.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
GetVersionEx is broken from Windows 8.1 onwards, they want developers to query
the OS for functionality rather than check a version number. See
[https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/ms7...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/ms724451%28v=vs.85%29.aspx)

~~~
xg15
Like this? [https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/ms7...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/ms724832%28v=vs.85%29.aspx) Are they seriously
deprecating a vital API and replacing it with a few vague suggestions on what
patterns might somewhat reliably indicate whether a feature exists or not?

This anti-pattern in API design is annoying enough in HTML5. Awesome to see
it's now leaking into the OS world.

------
comex
Apple's move a few years ago towards yearly OS releases has drawn a lot of
flak on HN for allegedly decreasing software quality. I don't know to what
extent this is an inevitable result of the cadence versus simply Apple not
having a good process at present (and to what extent the effect is mere
confirmation bias...), but I wonder if people will start saying the same about
Microsoft.

~~~
cmelbye
This isn't what OS X is doing, though. Some OS X updates are shipped too
early, in order to hit a WWDC deadline. Apple is getting better at that
though, by shipping major new features in OS updates throughout the year.

Previous Windows updates were shipped too slowly, due to having to amass
enough updates to justify a three digit price tag. Now, updates to Windows
will be shipped to consumers when they're ready. No predetermined release
schedule. I would compare this strategy more to evergreen browsers like
Chrome.

------
mavidser
How will they deal with increasing requirements? At some time, the system
requirements will increase, will the user be notified or what? Or will he have
to figure out that the PC's getting slow, or things aren't working; it's time
to upgrade.

------
coherentpony
The title is a little misleading. They're not going to produce _numbered_
versions. It's very possible they may name their versions with words, or just
roll out updates as they become available a little bit like Arch Linux does.

------
fiatjaf
They will abandon Windows and work on a new operating system based on Linux.

~~~
Luyt
I don't think they will do that, since the Linux kernel is GPLed.

~~~
ascagnel_
The kernel is GPLv2 -- they can rewrite big portions of it to fit their needs
and push as little code back out to the community as possible.

That said, this "new" MS is focusing more on cloud than anything else, so a
MSLinux is probably more a question of "when" than "if".

------
venomsnake
The big windows deployments admins will be thrilled, thrilled I tell you. I
can't get the "piss off your real powerbase to get traction in device market"
strategy ... oh well.

------
mattmanser
So I wonder if they are they going to move to more aggressively limiting you
moving a license from one machine to another.

Or are they just going to rely on people just paying for the convenience of
having Windows pre-installed and working out of the box?

In all honesty, they'll probably do fine relying on the latter.

~~~
ceejayoz
I suspect eventually Windows will be a free OS, like OSX now is, used to drive
sales for other more profitable products.

~~~
ghaff
Well, the difference is that Apple sells hardware. It actually used to be the
case that computer manufacturers routinely bundled operating systems for
"free" with their hard ware. This has been a kegal issue in some cases, e.g.
[https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/473/908/](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/473/908/)

~~~
balakk
I believe Microsoft is going to sell hardware, big time. Their play is devices
& services now.

------
snissn
...until the next version where they had to do a clean break to add in
whatever new feature it will be

maybe a better take away is that microsoft will be maintaining their code and
regularly pushing patches, as opposed to the very discrete service pack
updates

------
EGreg
So a bit like Chromebook's constantly updating Chrome.

If people can opt out of automatic updates, the only difference I see here is
the update mechanism and its default setting. Apple has to change 1 thing on
its iOS updates to do the same.

------
pjbrunet
It's official, Windows 95 is the version limit of Windows.

[http://pjbrunet.com/95-new-windows-limit/](http://pjbrunet.com/95-new-
windows-limit/)

------
EvilBanshee
Looking forward to the government-mandated Windows update cache servers
implemented by every ISP. I'm sure surveillance agencies are thrilled at this
decision.

------
singold
Any ideas on how this is going to work for new machines some years from now?
Would you install the current win 10 and then a bulk of service packs?

~~~
wongarsu
If you bought Windows XP in recent years, the DVD already installed Windows XP
together with the latest available Service Pack. If you buy Windows 8 right
now it automatically installs Windows 8.1 from the disk. It will work
similarly for Windows 10, regardless of the nomenclature they are going to
decide on.

------
Grue3
Checking app compatibility is going to be _fun_

------
gdonelli
This sounds like a subscription based service to me

------
jcoffland
That's great Microsoft. Debian has been doing this for over a decade now. I
have Debian 'testing' installs which I've been using regularly now for over
ten years and they are still up to date. Don't even reboot sometimes for a
year. Nice to see the comercial guys catching up.

------
insulanian
Does this mean I should stop expecting ground-breaking inovations in OS space
from MS? How they dare to consider it done? I want Windows Next Generation! I
want you to blow my mind!

Edit: I hope HP Machine OS will bring something interesting and new to
stagnating OS research field.

------
s_q_b
Well done. It is very impressive to see the shift.

------
TwoBit
"The developers would be locked away and out would pop a product based on what
the world wanted three years ago."

The world did not want Windows 8.

------
peter303
You should rename software before it reaches a double digit version. Otherwise
it's too stale.

~~~
seanp2k2
Or start prefixing the versions with something and start the numbering back at
1, like Adobe did with Photoshop CS :) (I know, Creative Suite contains a lot
more than Photoshop, but still).

------
garrylemmkr
I hope they stop making Windows entirely. What a sad company.

~~~
72deluxe
Do you really? What about all the checkouts in shops you go to? What will they
run on? What about all the ATMs you get your money from? What will they run
on? What about all the offices in the corporations you rely on? What will they
run? What about your schools, hospitals and police forces? Will they all
revert to paper?

EDIT: I didn't mean this maliciously, but I was genuinely asking because a
comment like "I wish it would go away" is clearly not rooted in reality given
the widespread use of Windows and the millions of users, happy or not.

------
reuven
I see the marketing people fell asleep at the switch here. With just a bit of
effort, Windows could have been "the operating system that goes to 11."

~~~
tgbrter
Why don't you instead just make 10 better?

~~~
fizixer
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to_eleven](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to_eleven)

~~~
idlewords
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke)

~~~
dalke
[https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1738](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1738)

~~~
talles
For one second I thought there was a RFC for jokes.

~~~
dalke
Sadly, no. Given the up-and-down nature of the points to my response, my own
joke was that someone who needed a pointer for what "joke" meant, given simply
as a URL, might also need a pointer for what a URL means. With of course the
contradiction that I gave it as a URL.

------
Giorgi
Stupid decision. Will take years before they realize Internet is not so fast
everywhere and not every company would like to have only online version of OS.

~~~
MichaelApproved
Service packs have always been available on physical disc, in addition to
downloading. I don't see why major updates couldn't be available on disc as
well.

------
everyone
I tried windows 8.1 for a while on my gaming desktop pc. Aside from the awful
metro garbage thrown on top of the OS (which can be removed / turned off) It
was quite unstable, all my games would randomly crash, even _the mouse_
exhibited weird behaviour and bugs. I went back to 7, everything is fine now.
I get the impression windows 10 will be more of the same, this is just pushing
me more and more towards using linux all the time, now that linux gaming is
becoming more and more viable also. Also MS are starting to act like apple,
intentionally crippling their software. For example to develop windows store
apps, you _need_ windows 8 or higher, you cant just download the sdk for
windows 7 even though it has the same kernel as 8 and is essentially the same
OS. Also the development process for windows store is horrible and
unnecessarily complicated (compared to say android development which is very
developer friendly). Also in order to force people to move to windows 8 MS
have made some optimisations to directx that they have _not_ released for 7
even though once again there is absolutely nothing preventing it except for
their attempt to manipulate their users.

~~~
orionblastar
The trick to Windows 8.1 is getting the correct drivers from your OEM and not
using the built in drivers.

For me I had to go to my motherboard maker's website and download the 8/8.1 64
bit drivers, update the BIOS, and then get the Nividia drivers for my GPU and
make sure they always update.

GPU drives can break Windows 8.1 when it comes to video games. There are
always updated drivers that fix issues with video games. This is because video
game makers do mistakes with DirectX and other APIs and the updated drivers
fix the issues with workarounds to avoid crashes.

Windows 8.1 changes the way DirectX 9 works, for classic video games like
Civilization II Gold Edition I had to apply the 64 bit patch and then extract
the 2010 version of DirectX 9 drivers into the Civ2 directory to get
DirectPlay support to play the game.

It takes a lot of JiggeryPokery like that to get some of the classic games to
work, and sometimes you have to choose the compatibility mode of a previous
version of Windows to force it to work. The average person can't always figure
that out.

~~~
everyone
That sucks! The OS's job is to allow you do use the computer to do what you
want and not get in the way. Having to implement various workarounds and fixes
for many different applications (which I'm sure will conflict with one another
at some stage) means windows 8.1 is a failure as an OS.

~~~
orionblastar
Microsoft broke their API model with Vista and 7. The last version of Windows
that didn't have this problem was Windows XP. That is why so many businesses
stick with XP because it runs their business apps without compatibility
issues.

Vista and above has compatibility issues and it needs workarounds like I
explained to get things to work.

Windows 7 added a better compatibility mode and fixed some of the flaws with
Vista. It even added a Windows XP mode in the Enterprise and Pro and up
editions to download an XP virtual machine. To get some software to work.

But Microsoft abandoned XP support, and is forcing companies and people to
upgrade.

I know a lot of people and businesses still on XP/Vista because it came with
their PC, and their software works with it so they stick with it.

The whole reason why Apple sells a lot of Macs is that Windows has become so
awful to support legacy apps that people don't mind paying more for an
alternative that works better and apps just install without issues on a Mac.

Some are going to Linux, and Linux as a web server does a better job than
Windows Server 2012. Microsoft sells Azure services for people who can't
figure out how to set up a Windows Server or a Windows machine.

Microsoft lost $1.89B on Surface Tablets and Windows 8.X sales. It is the real
reason why Steve Ballmer was forced into early retirement. They used the
Metro/Modern UI which is confusing and they broke compatibility that needs
tricks to get around it. They got rid of the Start Menu, etc. The changes made
it worse to the average user experience.

I really don't see Windows 10 addressing the compatibility issues, an the
Start Menu they use is quite a bit different from the XP/Vista/7 Start Menu.

I donated some money to the ReactOS project:
[https://www.reactos.org/](https://www.reactos.org/)

It is an attempt that building an open source version of Windows based on XP
etc. It uses source code from WINE, and it aims for better compatibility with
legacy apps.

