
Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies - pseudolus
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/27/science/chaser-border-collie-dies.html
======
technothrasher
"Chaser was taught to understand sentences containing a prepositional object,
verb and direct object."

I would have never believed this if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. A
friend has a golden retriever that I was playing with one day, and I asked him
to get me a stick. He did, but it wasn't the stick I was thinking of, so I
just off hand said, "no, not that stick, the one by the rock." and damn if
that dog didn't drop it and go get the one by the rock. So I said, "put that
stick with the other stick." Bam, done. I was stunned. I told my friend and he
said, "oh, yeah, not surprised. He's smart." Now, maybe he didn't fully
understand the sentences, and was simply understanding my body language and
watching my eyes, movements, etc for clues, but even if so... dang.

Now, my dimwitted sweetheart of a pup often gets confused just between "sit"
and "down", but I love her anyway :)

~~~
nradov
I wonder what would happen if we selectively bred dogs for that type of
intelligence rather than for appearance and temperment? What are the upper
limits of canine intelligence?

~~~
csomar
We've been doing that. However, we have been selecting particularly for
obedience which limited their intelligence.

We don't want actually a dog that is super-intelligent but just one that is
funny, protective and smart-enough.

~~~
tluyben2
We adopted some dogs that have been abandoned; those you don't pick for any
traits besides them not being completely crazy/vicious. We had (and have) ones
that no-one wants because they are too smart; they are escape artists and very
good thieves. They know how to trick you. They are absolutely not obedient,
even after training (they seem to train easy, but they are just doing what
gives them the quickest treat; if that ends they immediately stop again). I
like them more than the obedient ones really.

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clukic
I read a book about Chaser shortly before I got my pup. And I followed much a
what I read, naming everything he came in contact with, talking to him using
familiar nouns and verbs, not wasting words. At almost 3, he's not Chaser
smart, but he has developed an ear that can recognize the most subtle
variations in words, and he can figure out novel combinations of nouns/verbs
sometimes with a direct obect. For example right after he learned the word
window, he could generalize it to any glass that you look out through, and
then I could tell him to "take the [object name] to the window" and he would
find the nearest window (or glass door) and bring the given object there.

He was way ahead of a human child in terms of linguistic cognition up until
maybe the age of about 1 and a half, then he maxed out. Having a dog with the
verbal understanding of a toddler comes in handy sometimes...but rarely,
mostly I just wish he could learn to walk on leash.

~~~
kortilla
I have a puppy collie/Shepard mix that is about a year old. Do you have any
tips/suggestions? Do you regret getting such a smart dog in general?

~~~
alluro2
Genuinely curious - is there any reason why person would potentially prefer a
less smart dog? I always thought that, the smarter they are, the better
companions they can be, so your comment got me wondering.

~~~
manigandham
The smarter they are, the more they observe and learn. This means they also
learn bad or annoying things and it can be very difficult to then train them
out of it. A good example is a border collie I know that accidentally broke a
screen door, then suddenly learned that all screens can be opened at will and
no window was safe.

Smart breeds also need to be kept busy and entertained or they get anxious and
angry. They'll start destroying property or fighting with others. If you don't
have the time and energy, it's much better to get a less intelligent and
mellow dog instead.

~~~
cam_l
On the other hand my toy dog ate through a timber door. (And tried on every
door subsequently until we trained him out of it).

The anxiety is enough, it certainly doesn't take (much) brains.

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robbrown451
If you hit the NYT paywall, at the very least watch the YouTube video that is
linked on the page:
[https://youtu.be/J982KYWohT8](https://youtu.be/J982KYWohT8) (it's from 2013)

Yeah, there's some science. But mostly, just an incredibly sweet story. Dr.
Pilly, Chaser's owner, died last year at 89. Chaser also lived a long, happy
life.

~~~
the_duke
The paywall is easily circumvented by opening a private window.

~~~
oplav
NYT started blocking incognito windows:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19275283](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19275283)

~~~
coder4life
Is also easily circumvented by deleting all cookies from the site, then
reloading, if at end of articles.

~~~
rch
I think it's time for HN to replace the now useless 'web' link with one that
lets me hide submissions from inaccessible domains.

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pseudolus
Chaser also has a Wikipedia page [0]. There are also innumerable videos about
her on Youtube. Beautiful and intelligent animal that, as her trainer Dr. John
Pilley has said, certainly should cause us to view dogs as emotional and
intelligent with their own world view.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaser_(dog)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaser_\(dog\))

------
manigandham
Sad to hear. I have a border collie and it’s amazing how much he trained
himself. What’s especially interesting is selective obedience (also common in
trained dogs like service animals). He almost always knows what you’re saying,
but only listens when he wants too.

~~~
dymk
Selective disobedience in service animals is different than what you’re
describing. That’s when a dog chooses to ignore commands it knows are
dangerous - not just when it feels like it.

~~~
manigandham
You're right, I'm talking about the general concept of the dog making the
decision to follow or not. For example, my dog will ignore me completely if he
knows it's going to lead to a bath.

He clearly has determined what the outcome will be and decided not to do it,
which is really interesting to watch, and very surprising the first time it
happened.

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pseudolus
I hope the publicity surrounding Chaser's passing doesn't inspire unprepared
individuals to go out and get a border collie. They are arguably the smartest
dog breed and that intelligence is accompanied with a continual need for
stimulation that being locked up in a house or, worse yet, an apartment can't
provide [0]. A toy lap breed they are not.

[0] [http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/border-
collie#1_izc4ixoo](http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/border-collie#1_izc4ixoo)

~~~
bredren
I hope people consider even deeper that animals with less intelligence have
motivation, fear and a variety of feelings in their consciousness. And that
they deserve respect simply by virtue of their existence.

~~~
x0x0
I don't see anyone arguing otherwise? pseudolus' point is that Border Collies
are mostly not good pets, and terrible first dogs. If you want to do agility
or flyball or something active for an hour a day, they excel, and you'll both
be very happy...

It's having an animal bred for this in your house:
[https://youtu.be/hxMsVbFr1Bc?t=15](https://youtu.be/hxMsVbFr1Bc?t=15)

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mothsonasloth
Had a Scottish Border Collie, was a fantastic dog. I remember the first week
after I got my dog we took him near a field and the instinct immediately
kicked in when he saw the sheep. Straight to the ground, eyes giving the wolf
stare and ears alert.

Taught my dog to count to 4 with visual cues (fingers or chews).

Would love another Collie but sadly most work places in the UK aren't dog
friendly.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
I have both a BC and a dog friendly workplace (Google). But I wouldn't dream
of bringing her to work. Workplaces are for sedate dogs that are fine with
lying around and doing nothing while the owner works.

Our BC spends all her waking hours looking for a job, and her wakefulness and
energy is so much more intense than any other dog I've had. Makes sense for a
breed that had to walk/run for effectively dozens of miles a day while
herding.

~~~
avisser
I have a 15yo Aussie. I think he's finally at the point where I can bring him
into an office. He's mostly blind and going deaf so his eternal vigilance
isn't too disruptive anymore.

------
WalterBright
Dogs have been bred for everything else - I wonder how breeding dogs for
intelligence would work out.

~~~
h2odragon
Others mentioned a couple of breeds that are generally known as smarter than
usual; I'd add Catahoula to that list too. They're not as concerned about
human's opinions of how they're doing their jobs as some others; they're doing
the job, not waiting for the human's approval for having done it.

One of ours can reliably tell time from analog wall clocks. It's her job to
put our daughter to bed on time, and she does, understanding school nights,
weekends, and summer vacation all make circumstances different. We figure
she's reading the clock because she's not confident about the DST change if we
miss resetting those.

~~~
sambroner
Can you explain more about this? What does putting your daughter to bed look
like??

It sounds crazy!

~~~
h2odragon
She was a puppy when our daughter was younger, her bed was beside the little
girls bed, with a ritual of reading a story. Settle in hound, give her
blanket, settle in child, give her blanket, read a bit, goodnight. Wonderful
to see.

Little hound grew and is polite but insistent on the fact that there is still
a bedtime, even though it is later now and daughter no longer needs someone to
sleep beside her all night.

[https://knitowl.blogspot.com/2016/12/our-catahoula-
schedule-...](https://knitowl.blogspot.com/2016/12/our-catahoula-schedule-
keepers-lucy.html)

------
elorant
There's a video of the dog with Neil Degrasse where she's fetching objects he
asks her.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omaHv5sxiFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omaHv5sxiFI)

------
soulofmischief
A stray border collie came home with me one day while I was biking around the
woods. She was easily the smartest dog I've ever owned and I've owned many.

She knew when to be emotionally available, she understood body language and
speech so well. A fantastic riding companion that knew how to pace herself for
miles.

Not a very good mother, though. Her entire brood was eaten by coyotes over a
couple of weeks.

I'm highly considering getting another border collie when the time comes for a
new dog... if so I'll definitely be trying to push her like Chaser.

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WheelsAtLarge
60 minutes did a news piece on Chaser. It's worth the time to view.

[https://www.cbsnews.com/video/chaser-smartest-dog-in-
world-6...](https://www.cbsnews.com/video/chaser-smartest-dog-in-
world-60-minutes-2019-07-27/)

I've had a couple of dogs as pets in my lifetime and I think they are way
smarter than what we give them credit for.

------
andyidsinga
I have two Australian shepherds - One of them was a puppy when I read the book
about Chaser. So I decide to try to sort-of reproduce some of the author's
experiments with my dog - and I'll be damned if it didn't work.

I didn't go to near the extent of the training John Pilley did with Chaser,
but I did do the verbal only approach and put the toys in another room - and I
was able to teach him to retrieve probably 5 or 10 toys by name. I was really
amazed. I didn't do nearly as much training with the second Aussie - but she
picked up on the whole game even quicker than the first dog (because she had a
role model?).

Another thing I learned about this game/training : it really wears the dog
out. After 20 or so minutes of playing "go find the toy" they dogs lay down
for a nap.

(ps. doing "nose-work" games with dogs also wears them out)

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cmrdporcupine
Aw, that's sad, we watched videos of this dog not long after we got our own
border collie puppy some months ago.

Then we tried in vain to get our dog to make word/object associations like
this dog. No luck.

Yes, BCs are smart. But that particular BC was really really smart. I hope its
genetics live on in some lineage somewhere.

~~~
asdf21
YOu can't stereotype by breed as much as people think.

I remember seeing some study about a dog IQ test (something like an oversized
obstacle course in a barn -- but a legitimate study) and iirc Border Collies
were the main subjects, and the IQ curve was basically a standard
distribution, there were lots of dumb and average Border Collies, and only a
handful of "highly intelligent" ones.

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RaceWon
I'll try not come off as snide but I have to wonder what types of ailments
Border Collies are prone to due to the inevitable inbreeding that every AKC
dog has--hey they gotta look pretty in the ring.

* Our German Short Hair Pointer had seizures which in time led to him having to be put down; despite having him treated at the Animal Medical Center in NYC amongst other places.

* Our English Cocker Spaniel (a found dog that was living on the street) had terrible dermatitis which caused him to lose much fur and I'm pretty sure was no fun him.

* Our Yorkshire Terrier had kidney disease, also with seizures, though much less common than the Pointer's until later in his life; he too eventually had to be put down due to kidney disease.

That was it for the pure breeds, I told my partner next dog get a mutt. Indeed
she did, and he seems like a good dog so far--smart and happy.

~~~
seattle_spring
Your attempt to not come across as snide unfortunately didn't land. What on
Earth does your little soapbox rant on purebreds have to do with the article?
The dog was smart as fuck and lived a long life to 15.

~~~
RaceWon
> your little soapbox rant on purebreds

I'm soo sorry if my obvious point was over your fucking head. Here's an
article for the more enlightened members who might actually be interested in
alleviating the suffering of dogs--which are freakin awesome animals.

[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/although-
purebred...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/although-purebred-
dogs-can-be-best-in-show-are-they-worst-in-health/)

~~~
dang
Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how provocative
another comment was. Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines and using HN
as intended? We'd be grateful.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

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neonate
[http://archive.is/en2SL](http://archive.is/en2SL)

------
sys_64738
15 years is the upper threshold for border collies. RIP.

~~~
duskwuff
15 years is on the high side of average, but not an upper limit by any means.
20-year-old Border Collies aren't unheard of, and the world record is nearly
28 years.

~~~
jjtheblunt
world record of 28 years, documented where?

~~~
ComputerGuru
27 years old, actually, according to the Guinness Book of World Records. See
“Bramble” at [0].

[0]:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_dogs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_dogs)

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geonik
Non-paywalled article

[https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/chaser-border-
coll...](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/chaser-border-collie-
trained-to-recognize-1022-nouns-dies-at-15/)

~~~
dmurray
Also paywalled, but useful because a lot of people who have maxed out their
NYT limit won't have hit it here.

