
Ask HN: Searching for a new Linux development laptop. Suggestions? - ciprian_craciun
Mandatory requirements:<p><pre><code>  * Linux friendly;
  * Intel CPU, with embedded Intel graphics;
  * Ethernet port;
  * SATA 2.5inch support;
  * USB 3.0 (or better) Type-A port;
</code></pre>
Optional requirements:<p><pre><code>  * budget friendly;  (under 1500 EUR)
  * good cooling;
  * upgradeable RAM;
  * HDMI port;
</code></pre>
Thanks for the suggestions!
======
ciprian_craciun
As a side-note I found another like-minded person that wrote about the same
issues I've raised regarding long-term sustainability of a modern laptop:

* "Expansion Bays: Another Thing We have Abandoned for Thin Laptops" \-- [https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/dell-cpi.html](https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/dell-cpi.html)

* the HN link for the above article -- [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22821222;](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22821222;)

------
pizzicato
Thinkpads are amazing value for money if you don't mind getting them used. I
bought an x250 (i5-5300U with HD5500 integrated graphics) off eBay and fitted
it with an IPS screen and extra RAM - cost me just a little over £200 in
total.

I initially put Fedora on it but switched to Lubuntu. Have been using it as my
daily driver for almost a year now with no issues of note.

My x250 meets all the requirements you mentioned, except that it has a Mini
DisplayPort instead of HDMI. The ports vary somewhat between models and series
so I'm sure there's one that fits all your needs.

~~~
ciprian_craciun
Ah, the ThinkPad X200 series, a long time ago I had my sight on the X220 if I
remember correctly... And you are right, I've considered the "newer" X200
series as a potential candidate, as it does tick a lot of checkboxes.

However, as I am currently writing this from a 12 inch Fujitsu laptop, I find
the keyboard too "crammed" and I would this time go with something between 14
and 15 inch.

(Also I was hopping to find something new, as I would like a more recent CPU.)

~~~
pizzicato
The T4xx and T5xx series might interest you then, although it seems like only
the T49x and T59x laptops are available through Lenovo (in the UK at least).

The X1 Carbon and X1 Extreme seem popular, though more pricey.

Edit: Just saw your comment below regarding SATA availability. You might be
able to get some answers over at the Thinkpad subreddit :)

------
adchari
Thinkpad, or XPS 13/15 have good Linux support. I run Manjaro on my X1 Yoga,
and I’ve heard the T line is really sturdy

------
jayp1418
[https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/](https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/)

~~~
ciprian_craciun
Thanks for the suggestion, however from what I gather they offer only ARM
processors.

Unfortunately for development (especially when using languages that are better
suited for x86, like Rust, Go, Julia, etc.) I think ARM processors aren't yet
the solution.

With ARM I think there are at least the following major issues:

* availability of pre-compiled packages for Linux distributions; (perhaps not that problematic for established distributions;) * availability of pre-compiled packages (or binaries) for applications not part of the "core" Linux distribution; * raw processing power; (especially for Rust, Julia, which are CPU hungry;) * you can't build locally and just `rsync` the binary to the VM in the cloud, which most likely uses x86 processors;

~~~
jayp1418
Okay.. check Fujitsu Lifebook series of laptops.

~~~
ciprian_craciun
Funny enough, I currently use a Fujitsu laptop, although from 2012...

Thanks for the suggestion! I didn't know they were still making laptops.

In fact searching the largest online retailer in Romania, eMAG, they don't
have any Fujitsu laptop on sale... And it seems that neither do other large
retailers.

Perhaps it is popular only in certain countries?

(This "availability" could be a major issue, as if I encounter any hardware
problems, the support will be quite difficult...)

------
rshnotsecure
Dell XPS 13 Developer edition is probably considered the best.

I would also recommend System76 out of Colorado. Quite an interesting,
boutique company.

~~~
ciprian_craciun
Regarding the Dell XPS, I think it has the same issue as recent Thinkpads (and
any other "ultrabooks"): only NVMe disks (no SATA), memory soldered-on.

Regarding System76, I was looking the previous days at both System76 and
Tuxedo. My only concern with System76 is customer support in Europe. (From
what I know they are an US-based company.)

~~~
rotterdamdev
System 76nis overpriced because they pay US wages. If you like their hardware,
check out Clevo resellers in Europe. Same shit, lower price point. Firmware
can be upgraded with the pop_os tools, and in general in any Linux distro.

------
mrwnmonm
Thinkpad T480

~~~
ciprian_craciun
Thanks for the suggestion.

I've been a long time user of a Lenovo X1 first generation, and this time I
would like to see if perhaps I can't break away from Lenovo...

My main issue with Lenovo is their keyboards and pricing. The keyboard on the
X1 (which is the same as in the current generations) is too brittle, and I had
to replace three of those in the course of 5 years... Also I swapped 2
coolers... I know (hope?) that the T-line is more sturdy.

That being said, unfortunately the T480 doesn't have an SATA port, which is a
deal breaker for me, as I value above all else being able to quickly swap my
SSD from one laptop to another.

(When the X1 I had finally gave up it's second cooler, switching to an same
generation Fujitsu was a simple matter of going to the store, buying a
refurbished laptop, and swapping the SSD.)

~~~
detaro
> _unfortunately the T480 doesn 't have an SATA port,_

I'm fairly certain it does.

~~~
ciprian_craciun
OK, digging for the Lenovo ThinkPad T480 data sheet (which is not linked from
their main website, at least in a place easily found), I gathered:

* their main product page -- [https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-ser...](https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-series/ThinkPad-T480/p/22TP2TT4800) \-- does not list anything about SATA;

* (BTW, the support page linked from the main product page, is pointless and doesn't provide any data sheets; and the downloads page, has countless files, none of which contains "data" or "sheet" or "spec" in their name;)

* the user manual -- [https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t480_ug_en.pd...](https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t480_ug_en.pdf) \-- says that SATA is "available on some models", not specifying which;

* the maintenance manual -- [https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t480_hmm_en.p...](https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t480_hmm_en.pdf) \-- doesn't even list the word SATA (or NVMe), however it does seem to present in the "Internal Storage" section something which resembles a HDD tray;

* the "platform specifications" (found via Google) -- [https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T...](https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T480/ThinkPad_T480_Spec.PDF) \-- says <<system has one HDD slot or one M.2 2280 slot exclusively for storage>> and <<installed M.2 SSD is PCIe 3.0 x 4 but run at PCIe 3.0 x 2 due to M.2 SSD adapter limitation>>, which I interpret as: perhaps you can put either an M.2 or a SATA drive, however even with NVMe, you're still running at SATA speeds;

So all in all I'm a little bit disappointed about how "transparent" Lenovo
is...

Can someone please confirm if the SATA port is available regardless of how the
laptop was bought? (I.e. even if initially bought with a NVMe SSD?)

