
If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft... - Indyan
http://www.sellsbrothers.com/Posts/Details/12395
======
davidw
Reminds me of the bit in Cryptonomicon where Lawrence Waterhouse takes an
intelligence test for the navy:

"They gave him an intelligence test. The first question on the math part had
to do with boats on a river: Port Smith is 100 miles upstream of Port Jones.
The river flows at 5 miles per hour. The boat goes through water at 10 miles
per hour. How long does it take to go from Port Smith to Port Jones? How long
to come back?

Lawrence immediately saw that it was a trick question. You would have to be
some kind of idiot to make the facile assumption that the current would add or
subtract 5 miles per hour to or from the speed of the boat. Clearly, 5 miles
per hour was nothing more than the average speed. The current would be faster
in the middle of the river and slower at the banks. More complicated
variations could be expected at bends in the river. Basically it was a
question of hydrodynamics, which could be tackled using certain well-known
systems of differential equations. Lawrence dove into the problem, rapidly (or
so he thought) covering both sides of ten sheets of paper with calculations.
Along the way, he realized that one of his assumptions, in combination with
the simplified Navier-Stokes equations, had led him into an exploration of a
particularly interesting family of partial differential equations. Before he
knew it, he had proved a new theorem. If that didn't prove his intelligence,
what would?

Then the time bell rang and the papers were collected. Lawrence managed to
hang onto his scratch paper. He took it back to his dorm, typed it up, and
mailed it to one of the more approachable math professors at Princeton, who
promptly arranged for it to be published in a Parisian mathematics journal.

Lawrence received two free, freshly printed copies of the journal a few months
later, in San Diego, California, during mail call on board a large ship called
the U.S.S. Nevada. The ship had a band, and the Navy had given Lawrence the
job of playing the glockenspiel in it, because their testing procedures had
proven that he was not intelligent enough to do anything else."

~~~
mikedmiked
Similarly, though not as funny, from "The Legend of John Von Neumann" -
<http://stepanov.lk.net/mnemo/legende.html>

'Then there is the famous fly puzzle. Two bicyclists start twenty miles apart
and head toward each other, each going at a steady rate of 10 m.p.h. At the
same time a fly that travels at a steady 15 m.p.h. starts from the front wheel
of the southbound bicycle and flies to the front wheel of the northbound one,
then turns around and flies to the front wheel of the southbound one again,
and continues in this manner till he is crushed between the two front wheels.
Question: what total distance did the fly cover ? The slow way to find the
answer is to calculate what distance the fly covers on the first, northbound,
leg of the trip, then on the second, southbound, leg, then on the third, etc.,
etc., and, finally, to sum the infinite series so obtained. The quick way is
to observe that the bicycles meet exactly one hour after their start, so that
the fly had just an hour for his travels; the answer must therefore be 15
miles. When the question was put to von Neumann, he solved it in an instant,
and thereby disappointed the questioner: "Oh, you must have heard the trick
before!" "What trick?" asked von Neumann; "all I did was sum the infinite
series." '

~~~
patio11
_all I did was sum the infinite series_

This is meant to sound very difficult (and might be, if you majored in
journalism), but summing infinite geometric series is easy enough to do in
your head if you're facile with fractions: (first_term) / (1 -
step_multiplier).

Observe that, of the combined velocity of the fly and the bike approaching
him, the fly always makes up 60%. That makes math easier since it eliminates
division and time from the problem entirely.

On the first trip, the fly travels 12 miles and the bike approaching him
travels 8 miles. There are now 4 (20 - 2 * 8) miles between the bikes.

On the second trip, the fly travels .6 * 4 = 2.4 miles and the bike
approaching him travels 1.4 * 4 = 1.6 miles. There are now 0.8 miles between
the bikes.

The part where people who are really good with math distinguish themselves
from people who are not is realizing quickly that the problem they are looking
at, with flies and bikes, quickly decomposes into "sum the series that starts
12, 2.4, etc".

12 / (1 - 0.2) = 12 * 5 / 4 = 15 miles total fly travel.

You can do it a little more formally if you want to verify the intuition that
each step takes 1/5th the time (covers 1/5th the distance) of the previous
step. (My intuition says "In the time that it takes the fly to go 5 units, the
two bikes will chew up 4 units of that distance, so he is only left with 1
unit to travel the next time.")

~~~
aleem
I don't think it's about difficulty per se but the number of computations
required. If 25 miles were covered by the fly and a bicycle, the fly covers 15
making it 60% (first calculation). Thus for 20 miles, the fly covers 12,
bicycle 8 (second calculation). 20-16 or 4 miles are remaining of which the
fly covers 2.4 (third computation). 2.4 is one-fifth of 12 (fifth
computation). 12 / 0.8 => 12 * 5/4 = 15 (sixth computation). This route will
always be slower because it requires more computations.

Where intuition really comes in is finding the right hill to climb -
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_climbing>

------
mhartl
For those who think this doesn't sound at least a little bit like Feynman, I
highly recommend this video: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM>

~~~
klochner
reminds me of this one:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05WS0WN7zMQ>

------
27182818284
This comes up every now and then on social websites and every time I
completely disagree that it reads like Feynman or that Feynman would react
that way.

~~~
Retric
He basically said those things in an interview once. So while he might not
react that way when looking for a job it really just depends on how much he
wanted the job.

~~~
cperciva
_it really just depends on how much he wanted the job_

I disagree. Feynman was famous for speaking his mind regardless of the context
(Bohr insisted on Feynman's presence at critical points during the Manhattan
project for exactly this reason, in fact -- everybody else was too inhibited
around Bohr to speak up).

Feynman might have kicked himself afterwards, but wanting a job wouldn't have
prevented him from pointing out an interviewer's errors.

~~~
Retric
There is a huge gap between speaking truth to power and being snippy to make
yourself feel better. As a ridiculously intelligent and anti authoritarian
friend put it. "You don't walk around barefoot on the first day of a new job,
you need to break people in."

PS: And yes, he would eventually walk around the office / data centers without
footwear.

~~~
cperciva
_You don't walk around barefoot on the first day of a new job, you need to
break people in_

I agree. And I'm sure Feynman would have agreed... until he got excited about
something, at which point he would have completely forgotten.

------
jarin
I'm not sure Feynman would respond this way, but he's one of my personal
heroes. If you haven't read "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman" please do
yourself a favor and pick up a copy immediately.

~~~
javery
The follow up "What Do You Care What Other People Think?" is also a great read
and incredibly heartbreaking.

~~~
MikeCapone
And the next logical step is to read the book that has his compiled letters.
Great stuff.

~~~
yoak
And of course Mr. Feynman Goes To Washington . I think the ultimate point is
that all of his books are awesome. I even liked some of the science stuff. ;-)

~~~
eru
The first few chapters of his Lectures on Physics are suprisingly readable as
popular science. Later on it gets more hard-science-y.

------
sriramk
If you rename this 'If Sheldon Cooper applied for a job at Microsoft' this
works beautifully :)

~~~
MikeCapone
Or Paul Dirac. He had a very literal mind.

(I just read Graham Farmelo's bio of Dirac, and I highly recommend it for
those who are fascinated by genius physicists like I am)

~~~
nkassis
I just bought the book after I found out while reading parts at the store that
I lived 2 buildings over from his house in Florida (Tallahassee) while in
college at FSU.

Dirac is a legend there not only does he have a library named after him there,
the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory at FSU is on Paul Dirac drive ;p

------
klochner
Feynman or not, it's entertaining to anyone who has waded through several
hours of contrived interview questions that supposedly relate to programming
ability, and that always have a "right" answer.

~~~
ax0n
I had a four hour long interview for a systems programming/administration
position where plebeian admins were allowed to grill me for about 25% of the
time, asking me to whiteboard viable algorithms for cute little problems they
concocted. All of my solutions would have functioned flawlessly and would have
met all of the stated requirements, but they didn't involve the same thought
processes that the interviewers had used. I "failed" but in the end, I won. I
would not have fit in there anyway.

~~~
rikthevik
As much as they're interviewing you, you're interviewing them as well. If
you're a smart guy, you hopefully have enough prospects that if you don't want
to work with pedantic nitwits, you don't have to.

~~~
ax0n
I was interviewing them as well, but I was 4 months unemployed with a disabled
wife that couldn't work but whose disability claim was in limbo. I might have
actually taken the job had I been offered one, sadly.

Fortunately, all's well that ends well. An old headhunter I'd used in the past
tossed my info along (for FREE!) to my current boss. After talking to me on
the phone, he gave me the old "We don't have a position open, but I'll call
you if something opens up" line. I wrote it off, but he worked to get a
position opened up for me and I'm genuinely doing what I love to do for a
living these days. It involves Information Security, physical
security/surveillance and general-purpose IT work (Sysadmin, programming and
networking). I'm basically in geek heaven. It's also 6 miles from home, giving
me the perfect excuse to ride my bike to work every day, rain or shine.

~~~
retube
Hang on - in the US the candidate pays the headhunter?

~~~
ax0n
No. In my case, I worked for the headhunter as a consultant to a company that
eventually hired me. The agency takes a percentage of the first year's salary
in many of these situations. That said, I had really good luck with this
agency and the recruiter himself personally. Many are scum-bags. If you find a
good one, keep 'em on speed dial. You never know when you or a friend will
want some help finding work.

------
DevX101
Of anyone I've read or seen (in person or from videos), Feynman has the best
fundamental grasp of meta-knowledge. By meta-knowledge, for lack of a better
term, I mean understanding what it means to know something.

mhartl has already posted this excellent video:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM>, where he explains what the word
"why" means in scientific inquiry. When we answer a "why" question, we don't
really explain a concept in its entirety. At best, we're able to remove a
layer of skin off the onion, but no one has ever really reached the center. I
suppose science at it's heart is really just the elucidation of intermediate
cause and effect scenarios.

For the question "why did the ball fall?", "Jimmy dropped it" is a perfectly
valid answer. So is "Jimmy's motor neurons passed an action potential
threshold, causing the muscles in his wrist to contract". So is "the ball
moved along the curvature of space caused by the earth".

How far do we go?

~~~
rmc
"meta-knowledge" is called epistemology.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology>

------
nayanshah
The best part : If we are just considering the round ones, then they are round
by definition. That statement is a tautology.

~~~
Eliezer
Feynman wouldn't have said that particular line, was my own reaction.

------
InclinedPlane
To be fair, MS hasn't used this sort of "puzzle based" interviewing system for
years.

~~~
ajaimk
Uhh. I had one such question asked by the MSFT interviewer 2 weeks or so
ago...

~~~
InclinedPlane
Anyone can still ask you whatever questions they want during an interview, but
as a matter of policy and culture MS moved away from puzzles years ago.
Notwithstanding there may still be hold outs.

------
tzs
That Feynman is not very Feynman-like.

------
cma
I think I've seen this before, except Feynman was going on about how circles
aren't the only constant width shapes:

<http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curriculum/Geometry/CWStar.shtml>

~~~
jasondavies
Someone used this principle to create this strange bicycle:
[http://www.china.org.cn/china/photos/2009-05/07/content_1773...](http://www.china.org.cn/china/photos/2009-05/07/content_17738257.htm)

------
vixen99
To be a touch prosaic, is it simplest to cover a round hole with a round
cover? No, Round holes are drilled. Covers for them can be simply cut squarely
from stock. Why have a geometric match? Either way provision has usually to be
made for covers to he bolted and locked down even if they are resting on a
flange.

------
drcode
I liked the surprise ending.

~~~
geoka9
Me too. But on second thought, he didn't come across as a marketing type. Not
to me, at least. More like a R&D guru.

~~~
MikeCapone
I read it as "Microsoft is too incompetent to put him in the right
department", but maybe that wasn't the intent.

------
stusmith1977
Heard this one before, and it made me think of the barometer problem:

<http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/barometer.asp>

------
a5seo
Holy crap, anyone else notice the number of totally obvious paid links on that
site? What not to do...

------
mcknz
Of course TRWTF is that he's applying for a job at Microsoft.

~~~
27182818284
Well its not real, but also it wouldn't be that crazy I don't think. I mean it
is weird they would interview him, but he was a computer and then later
actually worked on computers (the machines)
[http://www.longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-
mac...](http://www.longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine/)

~~~
sspencer
Wonderful essay. I especially love this:

 _I remember a conversation we had a year or so before his death, walking in
the hills above Pasadena. We were exploring an unfamiliar trail and Richard,
recovering from a major operation for the cancer, was walking more slowly than
usual. He was telling a long and funny story about how he had been reading up
on his disease and surprising his doctors by predicting their diagnosis and
his chances of survival. I was hearing for the first time how far his cancer
had progressed, so the jokes did not seem so funny. He must have noticed my
mood, because he suddenly stopped the story and asked, "Hey, what's the
matter?"

I hesitated. "I'm sad because you're going to die."

"Yeah," he sighed, "that bugs me sometimes too. But not so much as you think."
And after a few more steps, "When you get as old as I am, you start to realize
that you've told most of the good stuff you know to other people anyway."

We walked along in silence for a few minutes. Then we came to a place where
another trail crossed and Richard stopped to look around at the surroundings.
Suddenly a grin lit up his face. "Hey," he said, all trace of sadness
forgotten, "I bet I can show you a better way home."

And so he did._

------
pghimire
Just finished reading "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman" - one of the best
reads ever!

