

Non-lethal microwave-blasting missile knocks out electronics - WestCoastJustin
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-10/24/microwave-missile-fries-electronics

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malandrew
What I found odd/amazing is that just after 38 seconds in the embedded video
the pulse is strong enough to cause the computer in the middle back to eject
the CD/DVD rom so hard as to throw out the disc.

Also, would it be possible to shield against such a pulse, the same way that
data centers can be shielded against EMP using things like grounded copper
"wallpaper" and adding shielded energy filters on the incoming power supplies?

~~~
WestCoastJustin
Where I work we use Faraday cages [1] to stop radio emissions from leaking out
and interacting with scientific experiments. The thing is about the size of an
industrial freezer with a large door. I guess you could use the same idea but
in reverse for very sensitive things.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage>

~~~
Zenst
If you have a small computer or electronics that need sheilding you can just
place them inside a microwave (obviously not one turned on) as by design they
are faraday cages designed to sheild against microwaves leaking out. They also
work to sheild microwaves getting in. Cheap, simple solution.

There again most milatary equipment and the like are generaly made to counter
EMP type exposures so I do wonder what this new toy's feild of play will
actualy be.

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dchichkov
I remember reading a review on EMP weapons in Nature magazine some time back.
The conclusion was, that it is nearly impossible to reliably knock out
equipment without precise knowledge of the setup, weather conditions, etc...

Here's the original article: [http://www.nature.com/news/microwave-weapons-
wasted-energy-1...](http://www.nature.com/news/microwave-weapons-wasted-
energy-1.11396)

And a quote from it: _"... a prototype non-lethal crowd-control weapon that
emits a beam of microwaves at 95 gigahertz. Radiation at that frequency
penetrates less than half a millimetre into the skin, so the beam was supposed
to deliver an intense burning sensation to anyone in its path, forcing them to
move away, but without, in theory, causing permanent damage. However, the day
of the test was cold and rainy. The water droplets in the air did what
moisture always does: they absorbed the microwaves. And when some of the
reporters volunteered to expose themselves to the attenuated beam, they found
that on such a raw day, the warmth was very pleasant."_

~~~
dchichkov
And that's what I'd really love to see - EMP that detonates roadside bombs,
rather than knocking out equipment. I understand that IEDs usually have some
electronics, right?

It looks like there've been some efforts to develop these _"The Air Force
Research Laboratory developed an HPM system called MAXPOWER to detonate
roadside bombs remotely, but it was the size of an articulated lorry — too
unwieldy to be deployed in Afghanistan. The Joint Improvised Explosive Device
Defeat Organization, the defence department's bomb-fighting agency, declined
to discuss the system, citing classification issues. But it did say that, as
of 2011, it was not funding MAXPOWER."_ , but again, largely unsuccessful.

I imagine that it is too wasteful to EMP roadside bombs with explosive
magnetic pulse sources. And non-explosive sources are too bulky...

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oakwhiz
So it's non-lethal to people with pacemakers and dialysis machines?

~~~
tsotha
You can make the same argument against tasers. But if the choice is getting
shot by a 9mm or a taser, I'll take the latter. By the same token, if the
choice is getting microwaved a bit or attacked by a 500 lb smart bomb, I'll
take the former.

~~~
andreasvc
That's what's known as a false choice. In practice, equipping police with
tasers lowers the bar to using force (it's supposed to be non-lethal so
there's not so much pressure against being trigger happy). Note that in for
example the UK regular police don't even carry a gun, so there really doesn't
have to be any choice between getting shot or tased.

By the same token I don't think the same situations will call for an EMP or a
smart bomb. Setting off a bomb will get everyone's attention immediately,
whereas this device would silently disable electronics and could even become
standard operating procedure for things like SWAT teams.

~~~
tsotha
>That's what's known as a false choice.

No it isn't. The fact that some officers abuse their equipment doesn't mean
the choice doesn't come up. It comes up all the time.

>Note that in for example the UK regular police don't even carry a gun, so
there really doesn't have to be any choice between getting shot or tased.

Oh yes, it was probably just harsh language going through Jean Charles de
Menezes's brain pan. You say the wrong thing and _splat_. Brains everywhere.

>By the same token I don't think the same situations will call for an EMP or a
smart bomb.

In the first gulf war the US dropped bombs that contained graphite filaments
in an effort to take power plants offline without destroying them. Didn't work
too well, so a few days later conventional bombs were used.

In another instance the Iraqis put a command and control installation in a
bunker full of civilians. We took that bunker out with a smart bomb. An EMP
device sure would have come in handy.

~~~
andreasvc
It's a false choice because the two options you mentioned are not the only
ones, as I argued.

~~~
tsotha
They're not _always_ the only options, true. But sometimes they are.

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elsewhen
One problem with this technology is that it is more harmful for advanced
militaries than it is against guerilla forces. If the tech ever gets into
their hands, modern militaries have much more to lose since they currently
rely heavily on electronic devices.

~~~
jandrewrogers
Military hardware has been systematically hardened against this since at least
the 1980s in the US. I'm sure most other modern militaries have taken similar
precautions.

Guerilla forces would be _more_ exposed because they would likely be using
repurposed consumer or obsolete military equipment, neither of which is likely
to be hardened against this type of attack.

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hartror
Anyone else notice a CD drive open during the test and the CD come flying out?

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O-BukbpkOd8#t=37s)

~~~
CKKim
I only noticed that once people here pointed it out, and I'm somewhat baffled.
Can someone explain? My thought would be that something in the attack happened
to trigger the "open CD tray" operation in the computer, but then why would
the CD jump out? Is it possible that the microwave sent the motor into
overdrive? I'd love to hear possible technical explanations for this.

~~~
jeremysalwen
My interpretation was that the CD was spun up, so when it was pushed out by
the tray, it had a lot of extra energy.

~~~
CKKim
Ah! Of course! Thanks!

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jberryman
So I guess the video they showed wasn't the test where they "took out the
cameras"? It would have been cool if they needed to pick up some mechanical
film camera to record the test.

~~~
arthulia
I believe the camera went out when the narrator said "Fade to black."

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ari_elle
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4695275>

but let's see - maybe this time people will be interested :)

I think it's very interesting, since it's not only theoretical, it already
works.

This could be one of the key technologies used by the US military in the next
war they'll fight in.

~~~
ynniv
Or against the US... [http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/07/22/Report-China-
deve...](http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/07/22/Report-China-developing-
EMP-weapons/UPI-10561311362279/)

Plus, I hear we don't practice the same kind of map-in-hand training that
would be useful after an effective EMP.

~~~
ari_elle
Thanks for the link - interesting. Though i don't think US' next war enemy
will be China ;)

What kind of _"map-in-hand training"_ \- needed to use such a weapon
effectively - are you referring to?

~~~
carbocation
Navigation without electronics. With a compass, a map, and your wits. And
maybe the Antikythera mechanism.

~~~
ari_elle
They are not knocking out a city, but buildings.

Some military buildings knocked out, everything not underground or specially
shielded shuts down, has to reboot - this combined with a military strike...

You don't need soldiers equipped with compasses to do this.

It's not like electric devices in a big area don't work for a long amount of
time.

~~~
ynniv
_shuts down, has to reboot_

I don't think you understand how an EMP works. The article is about a
microwave gun which is more selective but less effective than a nuclear EMP.
The pulse causes extremely high voltage. Durable electronics (an old car)
might restart, but modern electronics are often destroyed.

 _It's not like electric devices in a big area don't work for a long amount of
time._

Unless they are EMP hardened, they will not work forever, which to me is a
pretty long time.

~~~
ari_elle
Then US military with EMP hardened equipment.

It's not the technical aspects i have a problem with, it's the statement that
US Military lacks skills to strike after EMP attack.

 _"we don't practice the same kind of map-in-hand training that would be
useful after an effective EMP"_

Like i've also stated: Maybe it wasn't meant to be that serious, maybe it even
was meant to be funny.

Thanks anyway for clarifying this. I am intrigued. Guess i will read into this
topic in more detail :)

~~~
SoftwareMaven
If you want a good read on the effect of a massive EMP attack, read "One
Second After"[1]. William R. Forstchen wrote it after presenting to the US
Congress on the dangers of EMP, and having the presentation be largely
ignored.

1\. [http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-
Forstchen/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-
Forstchen/dp/0765356864/)

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greatabel
The country whose army is most relied on advanced electronic system is most
fragile to such weapons

~~~
Zenst
Milatary grade electronics are EMP sheilded in general and that is down to the
cold war and the fear that a nuke would as a side effect kill all the
electronics. This fear with army's in general has been a area already planned
for and with that this type of offencive whilst has niche uses. It is still
nice and against less ofganised unofficial army's of the World then this is
something that can be used. It certainly is a nice reusable design.

Sadly though medical equipment and hospitals from my knowledge tend to not be
as well protected against sich devices. I would also wonder that the effects
upon pacemakers would not bode well either.

Still it will be less life impacting than alternatives in the situations which
it lends itself towards. So good on boing for finaly making the EMP miltary
grade market justified after all these years.

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ck2
Is cancer causing considered "non-lethal" ?

Because the police are certainly going to be using this someday at protests.

Not their problem I guess if people get cancer from it several years later.

~~~
jlgreco
Unless I am mistaken, microwaves are not ionizing radiation. If intense
enough, they can cause burns but won't cause DNA damage.

Studies about _chronic_ high exposure to microwaves show no clear signal of
cancer incidence. A quick burst is pretty much considered safe aside from
heating related injuries, as far as anything reputable I can find on the
matter is concerned.

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beedogs
Great tech! Can't wait for them to use this on us!

~~~
Zenst
Yes I too do wonder what this is aimed at as for years and years milatary
equipment as been made to counter against EMP. Digital rights managment may
get interesting one day with this :).

