
America’s airlines are introducing a class below economy - prostoalex
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2016/02/bottom-class
======
rayiner
> Travellers have signalled that they are willing to suffer all sorts of
> discomforts and inconveniences for the sake of a lower fare. America’s big
> airlines are simply giving them what they wished for.

I feel the same way about people who complain about crappy airlines as I do
about people who complain about crappy video games. If you don't want to be
treated like cattle don't buy the cheapest ticket you can find on Hotwire (and
stop buying from EA). It's not like there aren't dozens of other options to
choose from.

~~~
pklausler
And what do you do about the corporate travel policy that requires you to book
the cheapest available fare?

~~~
madeofpalk
The same thing as when you disagree with any other policy or action your
company might set.

~~~
pmiller2
Which is? Submit, quit, or be fired/disciplined?

~~~
madeofpalk
If I'm not getting paid enough, or I want to change my work hours to account
for new circumstances, or I don't want to be forced into a sub-economy cattle
class flight, I'll just talk to my manager about it.

If they don't agree and the issue is big enough for me, I'll find a new job.

------
s_m_t
How exactly is this a bad thing? When I buy a plane ticket I only buy it for
the privilege of being flown from one area of the country to the other, I
don't care about anything else and I don't want to pay for anything more.

~~~
baby
I don't think it's a bad thing. But the experience of flying has now became
more than awful. Between the 2 hours TSA lines that make people miss their
flights, the "you have to walk bare foot to pass the security" while we shout
at you, the lack of space when you're sitting at your seat, ...

~~~
CardenB
Have you flown recently? I don't think flying is as bad as you describe, at
all.

~~~
dmak
If you have you flown domestically in other countries (such as Japan), you'll
be surprised how easy and fast it is. It was like the 90s in the U.S.

~~~
marak830
Is it that bad over there now? I have never flown domesic in the us, i mean i
had heard it was bad, but i had assumed tey were just the worst of the worst
horror stories.

~~~
rayiner
I just took a flight DCA - ORD the other day. Stood in line maybe 5-6 minutes.
I regularly get sub-10 minute trips through security at BWI.

I think people confuse airport congestion with security holdups. Carry-on
x-rays have been mandated for a very long time (long before 9/11). And people
always had to walk one-at-a-time through the metal detectors. What's happened
over the last 25 years or so is a massive increase in air travel in the U.S.,
without a corresponding increase in airport capacity.

~~~
baby
I went to ORD 7 times this last year, plus went there to pick up people 6
other times. I think maybe once I didn't have to wait for more than 30min.
Also waited 3 hours for someone to cross the border last time I was there
(obviously non-american, after she had spent 13 hours in a plane). This is
just backwards.

> Carry-on x-rays have been mandated for a very long time

You didn't have to wait so much. You didn't have to go barefoot. You didn't
have to go through the "get naked" machine.

------
pklausler
What sucks about this is that many corporate travel policies require you to
take the lowest available fare for a trip. So now that's going to often be an
even more horrible cattle-car steerage nightmare than it is today. I'm not
overly tall and not seriously claustrophobic but I already view airline travel
outside "first class" with dread -- these new sub-economy fares are going to
be torture.

~~~
mbell
Don't work for them, it's pretty simple.

I don't know what field you work in, but give that this is HN I assume you're
a developer, if so you'll probably not see a better job market, don't put up
with shit.

~~~
Pyxl101
It's not pretty simple if travel is an insignificant part of your job that you
only undertake once every year or few years. (You shouldn't casually suggest
that someone quit their job over something that might be and probably is
trivial just because they don't like it. It's disingenuous. Note, I didn't
downvote you, though I thought about it.)

But there are better solutions than that, anyway. Corporate travel policies
might only reimburse the cheapest fair, but you can often book a better fair
and reimburse the cheapest rate while paying the discrepancy yourself if you
wish (which is how you might fly first class).

~~~
mbell
> It's not pretty simple if travel is an insignificant part of your job that
> you only undertake once every year or few years.

If you're concerned over uncomfortable travel 'once every year or few years'
then you have better things to be worried about. I can't imagine a better
example of a 'first world problem'.

------
lquist
This is great! This will open airline travel to a segment of the population
that has historically not had access. This is the story of airline travel. It
has taken decades, but what was only available to the richest of the rich is
now available to socioeconomically disadvantaged groups of society.

------
greggman
Cheap airlines (and maybe cheap seats?) actually have an unintended side
effect for me. Recently I flew from Singapore to Hong Kong. The first 4
options in price according to Google flights were $69, $105, $540, ~$1500. I
found that spread kind of shocking. The 2 bottom prices were for budget
airlines (Tiger and Jetstar) both rated at 1 of 5 and 1.5 of 5 respectively.
The $548 option was Singapore Air, consistently rated very good.

$548 is 7x $69!! That's a HUGE difference.

Anyway, I ended up taking Singapore Air because it flew at a time that fit my
schedule. On the flight I had an issue with the entertainment system. It was
resolved but had it not been resolved I'd have been extremely angry because I
knew I'd paid some portion of $469 for entertainment.

I don't know how and if that will ever play out or if there will be any real
repercussions but just knowing I paid 7x more means I expect extreme
perfection, something I would not have expected if the price difference was
only ~5% or something.

~~~
hboon
For Singapore Airline vs the budget airlines in the region, there is a key
difference that makes it worth paying for business travel — more predictable
arrival time.

------
macinjosh
I've always wondered why the main 'innovation' in the airline industry (when
it comes to lowering fares) is to treat customers more and more like herd
animals. There has to be better ways to make flying affordable while
maintaining both safety and comfort.

Last time I flew the reclining feature in person's seat in front of me was
broken and it was 5 - 7 inches in front of my face for the duration of the
flight. I couldn't even read my book. I got a free soda for my trouble.

In my view flying has become something exclusively for the wealthy who can
afford the half-way decent seats made for real humans who have dignity.

For me, flying is now only something I do where the importance of my presence
supersedes the cost of a decent seat. Otherwise, a video call will do.

~~~
qmr
There is not much to wonder about. It is because it is what the market
responds to.

Everyone bitches. No one pays more for more service.

~~~
macinjosh
And if companies only offered what the market asked for there would never have
been personal computers or smartphones. It takes someone who has vision for
what could be to change the world through innovation. Not a bunch of marketing
monkeys surveying customers to death.

------
AndrewKemendo
If you look at the history of air travel [1] it's clear that airplanes are the
new busses.

Air-travel was essentially once reserved for the wealthy, and mostly white
travelers but as more people moved up into the middle class there was
increased demand for air-travel which drove competition to accommodate them.
When southwest was born it completely changed the game and the race to the
bottom started.

On one hand this has been great, as it has enabled everyone in the US to be
able to fly and increased safety significantly. On the other hand, the
"elegance" of air travel, which I think most people still desire, is basically
gone in the US.

Asian carriers such as Emirates, Singapore etc... all maintain the elegant
aspect, but at significantly higher costs because they are servicing the
higher end still. You'll notice that they have no US domestic equivalent.

Expect that eventually there will be no pretense of elegance and it will look
exactly like ground transportation.

Interestingly enough, Amtrak has taken advantage of this and on the east coast
at least is largely considered a better experience between the DC <> Boston
corridor.

[1] [http://www.fastcodesign.com/3022215/terminal-
velocity/what-i...](http://www.fastcodesign.com/3022215/terminal-
velocity/what-it-was-really-like-to-fly-during-the-golden-age-of-travel)

~~~
pklausler
I don't get the connection to increased safety. Can you elaborate, please?

~~~
mikeash
People used to take other means of transportation more often for long trips,
which was a lot less safe. Cheaper plane tickets means fewer people dying on
the roads.

------
throwaway_exer
For those interested in the future of American air travel ...

Regional airlines, which carry half of pax, have been "last class" for
decades, but they're about to disappear.

The new pilot training rules requiring 1500 hours of experience have destroyed
their ability to operate. The first to declare bankruptcy is Republic, but the
rest will soon join it.

The majors have used the regionals for union-busting purposes, but those days
are over.

~~~
qmr
No, regionals are not disappearing. There are still tons of kids in the
pipeline who will do anything to fly jets. Several regionals are owned by
majors anyway.

------
Zikes
I will happily fly in the equivalent of a capsule hotel if the prices are
reasonable.

~~~
greggman
A capsule hotel to me would nearly be as good as first class for long flights.
Much much better than actual business class because I'd get to sleep.

~~~
viraptor
Same. I just can't sleep sitting up. It doesn't matter how much free space
there is, I'd take horizontal, stacked place over business class seat/pod.

------
evan_
I expected worse, to be honest. It sounds like the worst thing about it is not
being able to choose a seat- but otherwise the same basic in-flight experience
as "regular" economy.

------
brianmcconnell
What really gets me are the people who complain about being able to fly across
an entire continent within five hours in near perfect safety for a few hundred
dollars.

I remember being trapped next to a loud woman on one flight where she
proceeded to complain about every minor insult (slow drink service, so so
food, etc). When we got to the Sierra Nevada, I pointed out the Donner Pass to
her, and suggested she look it up. "It'll give you some perspective on your
trip".

------
H0n3sty
When I read the title I thought about Spirit airlines - funny that they
mentioned this being done in response to Spirit.

------
kawera
Next, no seating at all, just standing, like in a metro train at 6pm!

~~~
dzhiurgis
Asides from safety, wouldn't standing be actually more comfortable?

Sleeping pods make much more sense - you are safe in case of sudden breaking
and somewhat comfortable. The fairest way would be introducing progressive
seat sizes and charge accordingly. Small people pay less for seats that are
actually more comfortable (more fitting their height) and tall people have
option not injuring themselves without paying 3x more.

~~~
r00fus
Standing means it's likely no kids. Traveling for any length of time with kids
is impossible if they can't sit down.

~~~
fapjacks
Traveling in any capacity without being near children is something I would pay
_dearly_ for.

------
orbitingpluto
A whole new branch of law emerges: leg clot liability

------
CyberDildonics
It will be called the 'United' class.

------
dmak
Interesting how the airline industry has become a race to the bottom.

~~~
masterleep
Interesting how people value low prices and companies are reacting to their
wishes.

~~~
two2two
Avg. air fares have only dropped 13.8% since 1995. Nearly 20 years of
innovation later.

~~~
rayiner
In 1995, jet fuel was $0.50 per gallon. Between 2010-14 it was almost $3 per
gallon. It's about $1 now.

------
fixxer
This is why I drive now.

~~~
baby
Good like crossing the ocean.

~~~
fixxer
Well, in that case, don't fly American.

------
gonzo
Worse is Better?

------
perseusprime11
Caste system.

------
zelcon5
And in year 2020...
[http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln5ipwsRxJ1qd94ffo1_1280.p...](http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln5ipwsRxJ1qd94ffo1_1280.png)

