
Can we ever go back? - jaredwiener
https://blog.nillium.com/can-we-ever-go-back/
======
paxys
Every tech person I know in the Bay Area was already working 1-2 days a week
from home, and they are all desperate to go back to the same arrangement.
Turns out not everyone has home offices, expensive equipment, good internet,
privacy, sound-proof rooms or other home situations that are conducive to
productive, professional work. The article itself makes the ridiculous
assertion that newscasters broadcasting on Zoom from their living rooms is (or
should be) the new normal. WFH isn't some genie suddenly out of the bottle.
Most people out there are making the best of a shitty situation, not enjoying
it, and would all go back in a heartbeat.

Yes there is always room for companies to be more flexible and accommodating,
and I hope that some of them do change for the better as a result of this
crisis, but "office culture" is going to go back to exactly what it was a few
months from now.

~~~
fourstar
> expensive equipment

What equipment aside from a computer (which you can take home) are you
referencing, here?

> sound-proof rooms

So open office layout is the opposite of this?

~~~
paxys
> What equipment aside from a computer (which you can take home) are you
> referencing, here?

Large screen monitors, sit/stand desk, adjustable chair, foot rest, anti-
fatigue mat, ergonomic keyboard & mouse, computer dock, good quality
microphone and webcam, various dongles. All the equipment I use at work on a
daily basis put together will likely be in the thousands of dollars.

> So open office layout is the opposite of this?

Every open office has meeting rooms or phone booths in case you need quiet
space.

~~~
Apocryphon
> Every open office has meeting rooms or phone booths in case you need quiet
> space.

They usually frown upon people using them for the entire work day. More's the
pity.

~~~
erik_seaberg
We don't have enough meeting rooms to let half the office spend half the day
thinking. We don't even have enough meeting rooms for _our meetings_.

~~~
Apocryphon
Shame. One wonders what allowed for the space for the cubicle culture of the
'90s. Cubicles were at least semi-individual offices. Maybe because tech
companies were based in the South Bay, where land was more abundant?

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nerdbaggy
I miss working in the office. I miss the comradery, the social aspect,
cracking jokes, special lunches, walk stretch breaks, etc. I think work for a
lot of people is a fun social time, even though they are working. I feel like
working at home I have less fun and actually work more.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
I miss that, too. I don't miss the meetings and the noise, though.

I don't live alone. If I did, I would miss those things much more desperately.

~~~
nerdbaggy
Yeah some of my coworkers I feel terrible for. Stuck inside, single, and
furloughed. I wonder what health negative health effects we are going to see
in the future from so many people being stuck inside.

~~~
IfIEverCatchYou
My wife works at a drug rehab and they are starting to see an uptick in new
patients.

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dilippkumar
I think there’s an interesting matrix of situations here:

    
    
                 | Not Willing | Willing |
        —————————————————————————————————-
         Not Able|             |         |
        —————————————————————————————————-
         Able    |             |         |
        —————————————————————————————————-
    
    

The interesting outcome here applies only to the set of people who are willing
to work from home and are able to work from home.

I wonder how large this group is. Obviously, discussions of how the world will
change only applies to this group, so it’s probably important to estimate this
number.

The questions I have are:

1\. What economic incentives exist for employers to encourage working from
home?

2\. How will hiring practices change for various industries?

3\. How will migration to places like the SF Bay Area change?

4\. What new businesses and opportunities will this create?

5\. What disadvantages will impact a hypothetical competitive business if it’s
competitors adopt a work-from-home first approach but this company does not?

------
austinl
I honestly prefer working from home, but that seems to be a rarer opinion. I
feel like it gives me the flexibility to fill the gaps with other productive
or relaxing things. Even though I feel like my work environment is great, I
feel pressured _only_ do work-related things from 9-5 when I'm physically in
the office.

At home, I can take a break to do laundry, study languages, go for a walk. Or
if I'm just not in the mood to do work, I can do something else for a while
and come back to it later. I love the flexibility. Perhaps I'll miss it after
another month.

~~~
arkanciscan
I'm loving all the personal space. Eye contact and shaking hands squicks me
out. I'm even loving wearing a mask so I don't have to smile at random
strangers. I've been cooking my own food, and not feeling guilty for sitting
at home on a Saturday night. I'm gonna miss this.

------
baddox
I have a feeling that tech companies in the most expensive parts of the Bay
Area are going to have trouble getting some people to come back to the office
rather than move somewhere a bit cheaper and continue to work remotely.

~~~
sundaeofshock
I think some of those people are going to have a hard time getting a Bay Area
salary when they are living outside the Bay Area.

~~~
baddox
We’ll see what happens when the companies say “okay, time to come back to the
office” and a lot of their employees say “you know what, how about let’s not?”
Maybe some companies will fire all those people or attempt to cut their pay.
Maybe some companies will decide to save hundreds of thousands of dollars a
year on their downtown SF office.

------
Waterluvian
I've been WFH for years and it works super well for me. But I work with people
that it very clearly doesn't work well for.

So while I personally believe in WFH (especially as a parent of young kids), I
need facts and data before I think we can declare any genie having departed a
bottle.

I certainly know of anecdotes where this event has reinforced to some managers
that indeed WFH is a bad idea.

------
meritt
Unless we want to take a permanent hit to overall productivity and
profitability, yes, most people will return to the office real quick. Trying
to be efficient while hunched over a 13" mbp at your kitchen table while your
children and spouse expect you to be available even though you're "at work" is
near impossible for most people.

I've worked from home for 9 years and it took a long time to get to the point
I felt just as proficient as I used to at the office. That didn't really
happen until I had a dedicated office in my home, a good desk, a great
monitor, and an amazing chair.

~~~
brightball
Dedicated office with a door being key.

~~~
analog31
When the boss told us to work from home, I packed up my laptop, ordered a
great big monitor from Best Buy, and picked it up on the way home. Now I do
hardware, so I also went back in the evening and shoveled half of the lab into
my car.

But I live where land is cheap.

------
imoverclocked
I've worked from home quite a bit over the last 14 years. It's nice to have
the ability to be productive on some days while having a little more social
interaction on others.

I think some people will probably stop fantasizing about what working from
home is after this and hopefully some businesses will realize that people are
actually a little more productive when not constantly under their supervision.
(Did you get the memo?)

------
cgrealy
I consider myself incredibly fortunate to be able to work from home. I imagine
most people on HN are in a similar position.

There are plenty of people that successfully wfh every day, but it's not for
me. I like being able to go tap someone on the shoulder and have a quick
conversation without turning it into a massive vc call.

------
ProfessorLayton
I for one cannot wait to commute back to the office, as WFH has completely
ruined my workout routine of walking to the gym after work. I don't live
within walking distance of one at home, so this would be an issue for me even
if all the gyms were open to begin with.

90% of the effort _for me_ is stepping into the gym and making a routine out
of it, so this is pretty devastating. I was pretty happy with my gains and now
I can see them melting away week by week. I do try and workout at home, but it
is not at the same level or consistency of my gym membership.

~~~
Apocryphon
Your gym is closed because of the quarantine. It's not in of itself the fault
of WFH, especially if there are alternative gyms near where you live.

------
01100011
At my current job I try to WFH 2 days a week, and in the past I've been full
time WFH. This time is different. I normally have a fair amount of social
anxiety and absolutely hate the open office at work... but after over a month
of barely interacting with anyone but my wife I can't wait to get back to the
office. I even miss the shitty commute, but as wasteful and time consuming as
it is, it is mentally stimulating.

Maybe it's my cramped valley apartment... I don't know. I used to WFH from my
old house and felt a lot more comfortable there.

~~~
dilippkumar
> Maybe it's my cramped valley apartment... I don't know. I used to WFH from
> my old house and felt a lot more comfortable there.

This is probably a big deal. I love having a ton of sunlight and I pay a
premium to have an apartment with an amazing view from a set of giant windows
on a 6th floor apartment.

At work, a ton of my colleagues are very uncomfortable with sunlight glare on
their monitors, so our building always has blinds down and is lit by
artificial lighting throughout the year.

I much prefer my apartment with the natural light, peaceful silence and an
amazing view. I am sure that loving my home is a big part of me being happy
with the current arrangements.

------
twelvechairs
Depends on the business. It has asked the question 'why not?'. For some
businesses and employees there's clear reasons to work in an office (need to
talk or interact, need to be manage or be managed) - for others its just a
hangover from a previous era and this will help open up flexibility.

I think there will be a lot more '3-4 days in the office and the other day(s)
from home' as it also accords with many businesses goals to save money on
office space through hotdesking.

------
khazhoux
Yes. This WFH is all kinds of uncomfortable.

------
foogazi
I enjoy working from home, I also enjoy working from the office

I can definitely see myself going back to the office for 1-2 days a week, on
so called meeting days and wfh on busy days

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minikomi
There's a huge gap between working from home, and working from home in an
isolated way where normal day-to-day contact with other fellow humans is
severely reduced. The former I generally enjoy; the latter has been terribly
lonely.

------
maxerickson
Most people won't even have a choice. They either aren't working from home now
or will stop working from home when things reach some sort of resolution.

------
Apocryphon
To all of the disparate opinions in this thread: what about a compromise of
2-3 days of WFH a week?

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ydnaclementine
I dislike this slight defeatist, leading question type title. Of course we'll
go back. How long til? Who knows.

London survived the blitz, the world survived world war 2, we'll survive this.
Yes it sucks, but just do your part and stay inside. We have it easy by not
listening to doom and destruction dropping during the night.

~~~
krallja
The full title is "Can we ever go back [to the office, instead of working from
home]?"

------
troughway
We have had doctors in the West asking people if they had traveled to Wuhan
even in the December time frame. Who knows for how long they've been in the
know about the whole thing and nobody said a word until it was too late.

Western reporters (if such a thing exists anymore) in China have absolutely
failed to do their jobs on this one.

