
Square Register - robbiet480
https://squareup.com/register
======
tricolon
One piece is missing: a much more robust card reader that doesn't swivel or
threaten to snap in two after a day of swiping.

~~~
modeless
I noticed a local business (Blue Moon Burgers) using iPads as registers, using
similarly flimsy (though not Square) card readers. They gave up after a few
months and switched to a traditional POS setup. I don't know whether it was
the card readers that were to blame, but I'm guessing they were part of it.

~~~
rplnt
External card reader would be much more expensive because it has to (IIRC
banks enforce it (probably thanks to insurance companies)) encrypt all
communication with the "register" (in this case iPad). So it can't be just
some dummy device.

~~~
driverdan
AFAIK only PIN pad units require encryption but my knowledge could be out of
date.

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rythie
I can't actually remember the last time I swiped my card and signed for
anything, because we in the U.K., like most of Europe, use Chip and Pin (EMV
is the official name). I wonder if Square will still function when this gets
pushed into the U.S. market.

Surely this is due soon in the U.S.? [http://corporate.visa.com/media-
center/press-releases/press1...](http://corporate.visa.com/media-center/press-
releases/press1142.jsp)

~~~
yalogin
Square will be in trouble if NFC takes off. That is why its coming up with
what I think is its main product line, the register. The credit card reader
thingy is not where it makes money. Once prople get hooked on the analytics it
can hope to add the NFC functionality in and still keep going.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
Square seems to be attempting to counter NFC with Card Case[1]. Still requires
the merchant to be using Square, but has the upshot of working /now/, with the
cards/phones you already have, instead of maybe in a year or two when ISIS
gets it's act together.

[1] <https://squareup.com/cardcase>

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staunch
First time a URL like:

    
    
      https://squareup.com/register
    

Hasn't been about signing up for the web site.

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kefs
I don't like how, as the customer, I have no way of seeing what exactly is
being charged to my card. For all I know, anything could be running on that
ipad (foreground or background) and i could be charged any amount without
knowing. Sure, I can ask for a receipt, but even the legacy till they replace
in the video has a customer facing display, not a shiny piece of aluminum with
some fruit. It's interesting that video never switches to the customer view
either.

~~~
_wo6a
I used to work at a retail outfit that used the really old-fashioned credit
card system involving carbon paper slips and handwritten amounts, which would
be entered into a credit card processing system at another location at a later
time. We could have essentially charged whatever amount we wanted, and this
was fairly apparent to anyone who paid via credit card. And yet, out of every
thousand people who go to pay with a credit card, I could probably count on
one hand the people who express any serious concern about this fact.

Businesses have an incentive in maintaining their reputation and not getting
into trouble with payment processors, and I generally think people assume any
business approved by a payment processor is probably sufficiently low-risk to
give a credit card.

~~~
notatoad
any business approved by a payment processor is essentially zero-risk. if you
ever get an unauthorized charge on your credit card, it is trivially easy to
have the charges reversed.

------
fufulabs
No other startup has ever been so primed for an Apple acquisition. Everything
from execution, design sensibility, culture and even CEO is heavily Apple
inspired but in a different but still complementary industry.

~~~
yalogin
Square is a POS, cash register company. Why would Apple be interested in it?

~~~
driverdan
It's an area ripe for disruption. Apple is already a payment processor
(iTunes) and has easy to use touchscreen devices (iPad). Seems like a good fit
to me.

------
sriramk
Slightly tangential note - Square has the most gorgeous product videos I've
seen from a startup. Their jobs section even lists an open position for doing
these so I guess they do them in house. Very impressive.

~~~
zbrock
Thank you! Our in house video team is pretty awesome.

------
craigmccaskill
The Application looks amazing. Well done.

What I do wonder though, is why they're shipping this with such a terrible
stand/card reader attachment? I can't see those lasting 6 months in a busy
shop environment. I'd like to see a swivel stand that's locked to the counter
which you can slide the ipad into, then bolt secure and lock with a key. While
you're at it, build a robust card reader into the side of the case. Basically
something similar in form factor to this:
[http://www.directindustry.com/prod/elo-touchsystems/touch-
sc...](http://www.directindustry.com/prod/elo-touchsystems/touch-screen-
monitors-with-card-reader-9044-121138.html)

I could probably put something like that together in a weekend with a trip to
fry's/home depot, but why should I have to?

Also, a question I'd have before using this - what happens in the event of a
software crash? Where is my data, how quickly does stuff get backed up online?

~~~
maxmcd
Most likely because a lot of their business relies on easily being able to
provide a ton of people with free card readers. I'm sure they've explored a
more robust option, but it's probably nowhere near as cheap as the current
model.

Maybe a paid upgrade card reader is the next step, but if their goal is broad,
cheap and easy distribution they'll probably be shipping with this model for a
long time.

~~~
craigmccaskill
I'm not suggesting this is free, by any means. However, given the cost of
buying existing POS hardware solutions, I'm confident I could handcraft
bespoke ipad cases with card readers, sell them an ipad and _still_ make a
profit, all while undercutting a more traditional setup.

------
savrajsingh
This looks awesome! It's important they get this kind of product right on the
first release -- because small business owners can't tolerate 'beta' for
something so critical as their cash register.

Case in point: One of my favorite restaurants in Seattle was using iPads for
registers (not using Square's product). I came back a few months later and
they had switched to a 'normal' POS system. "What happened to the iPads?" I
asked. "There were too many issues and they crashed way too often." It was a
case of a restaurant that wanted to be on the cutting edge -- but in the end
it didn't work out, so they went with a standard solution that worked well.

I don't doubt that square can execute -- they have already shipped some great
products. I just want to point out that it's not as simple as some people
might imagine.

------
JoshTriplett
Scanning through the page, I noticed one oddity in the screenshots: the "Add
an Optional Tip" page showed various fixed-size tips, but no way to enter an
arbitrary amount. In previous versions of the interface, I thought the UI had
an option to enter an arbitrary tip amount.

------
etfb
Must be an American thing, I guess. Is EFTPOS (ie debit card) less common in
the US than in Australia? Seems odd to provide a credit card service by
itself. People don't pay for coffee and things on credit, do they?

~~~
pbreit
Why not? Why pay now when you can pay later for free?

~~~
dodedo
With 1% cash back, no less. I try to funnel all my expenses through a card --
and pay in full each billing cycle naturally.

~~~
underwater
The cash isn't free. You're paying the X% credit card tax on purchases via
higher prices.

~~~
pbreit
Not really. All the people not using a credit card are subsidizing your
purchases so the impact on prices is negligible or non-existent.

------
geuis
I would love to see a slight modification to the design of their reader
hardware. Keep the audio interface, obviously. But design a small plastic
frame that the reader can fit into that fits flush against the edge of the top
of the iPad/iPhone. Make it a bit longer with slightly sloped internal edges
so that its easier to guide a credit card to the scanner. This will also have
the benefit keeping the reader from swiveling around while in use. Actually
sounds like a Kickstarter project if Square doesn't come out with it
themselves soon.

~~~
sans-serif
Mount the reader separately, and connect it to the iPad with an audio cable.

------
disappearance
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but desensitising the general public to
devices that their card is being scanned through (and occasions where that
might be appropriate) will surely lead to to an increase in card fraud.

What's to stop someone jailbreaking an ipad, writing a custom fake ui,
clipping in a square scanner, and writing off a days worth of cheap
merchandise down at the park for a haul of card details?

If this becomes common, will credit card companies still offer the same
guarantees on transactions?

~~~
dangrossman
> What's to stop someone ... writing off a days worth of cheap merchandise
> down at the park for a haul of card details?

The fact that stolen credit card numbers, even with a full billing address and
CVV2 code are still only worth a couple dollars on the black market. Your
setup wouldn't even capture that, so your merchandise is probably worth more
than the numbers. And you're putting yourself at pretty serious risk of
getting caught by running this scam in person, when it's much easier to do
some kind of phishing scam online anonymously, with more valuable results.

Stolen credit card numbers just aren't very valuable. If you're not living in
a nation with an ineffective or corrupt legal system, what are you going to do
with the numbers without a high risk of getting caught? Making your own
plastic cards and magnetic tracks is expensive and you end up on security
camera video using them. Ordering anything tangible online means linking your
fraud to your physical location one way or another. You can order a bunch of
porn or other intangibles, but that's a pretty low reward for all the risk.

In the end, it's a moot point anyway. Normal credit card terminals can be
bought on eBay for less than an iPad and can be used for card theft just the
same.

~~~
disappearance
Thanks.

In europe we use chip and pin, so a fake app could collect the pin directly.
If someone was to harvest 30 cards with pin, could they then visit an atm
directly? Perhaps I'm underestimating the difficulty of cloning cards. If that
is possible, CVV2 would be unnecessary.

I hear your point about normal credit card terminals being available. As a
european I wouldn't expect to see one on a stall by the side of a road though,
and would normally be suspicious of anyone suggesting that they accept credit
cards under these conditions.

~~~
urbanjunkie
And that's why you need a separate terminal to enter your PIN (at least here
in the UK, although I'm fairly sure that also applied in Europe), and the PIN
number is never transmitted to the actual POS application, just a token
indicating success or failure.

~~~
disappearance
Right, but in this instance the 'terminal' to confirm your pin and POS
application are one and the same, and ultimately just replaceable software on
an iOS device.

------
bostonvaulter2
The text is all garbled in my stock Android browser. Please ut this seems like
quite a nice idea.

~~~
tnorthcutt
Same here (your first sentence).

------
Valid
I wonder if they plan to open a web store interface, so users can purchase
things without an iPad... I've been looking for a sexy place to set up shop,
but my business doesn't have walk-in customers. I know that's not really
square's game though

------
theneb
There's lots of talk about the survival of the Square reader under heavy
demand, certainly another more durable reader needs to be produced.

However is the market for square at this price point really for anything above
one or maybe two point of sales?

Using this setup in some bar environments would require some hardware to
protect the iPad, I've worked looking after hardware in busy student union
bars where the staff just destroy the tills with spillages.

My impression of the earlier square products for POS were that it's intended
for giving the small business something, not for running your local branch of
Starbucks.

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kwamenum86
This could be a game changer. Restuarant management software is a space that
needs innovation as well - I'd be surprised if they don't roll something out
that incorporates both payments and reservations.

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andyfleming
Awesome to see Square continuing to progress forward on a regular basis! The
register app looks great!

Does anyone know if it works well (or at all) with multiple iPads? Can you
view/manage the inventory online?

~~~
zbrock
We sync your items, settings and payment history between multiple devices.
That was...not easy.

~~~
allenc
Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. =)

------
Thomaschaaf
I don't understand where the actual cash came from in the video. Would this
mean I still have to have a register to store the cash in? Wouldn't this make
the whole process borked again?

~~~
dmix
If you scroll down on the sales page, theres a wireless/ethernet controlled
cash box that can be purchased.

------
hansy
Did anybody go through the verification process when ordering the device?
After I input some basic info (like my birthday and last 4 digits of my SSN),
I was asked to answer questions I have no idea how they even came up with.

One example is, "What hospital did you live near when you were on RandomName
St.?"

How did they immediately know what street I lived on some years back, and also
that it was near a major hospital?

The authentication was all pretty impressive, but kind of creepy too.

~~~
JoshTriplett
That doesn't seem like a useful security question at all. Anyone can trivially
find out the answer via online maps, and meanwhile the actual person who lived
at that location might not necessarily know the answer themselves without
looking it up. At most, if you use it as a trick question ("Hah, caught you,
the person you wanted to authenticate as never lived on RandomName St!"), you
get one bit of information, which you could get much more straightforwardly by
asking "Have you ever lived on RandomName St?".

~~~
lebski88
Street names are quite common though, knowing the street name is unlikely to
give you enough information to answer the question. The real person however,
would know the location of the street and be able to use this to look up the
right answer if they didn't already know.

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taitems
I love Square's work to date. The way they've changed the retail and
hospitality industry for the better, and looking damn good while doing so.
That being said, I can't say I'm a huge fan of the Register icon. Even the
Card Case icon is strobing a bit on this monitor.

~~~
andyfleming
Agreed. It doesn't really communicate anything about the application. It has
the square logo, but those colored squares could be anything. Items or
inventory aren't what come to mind. The app looks cool though.

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dguido
FWIW my local coffee shop uses ShopKeep and Perka and they work great!

<http://www.shopkeep.com/ipad-pos>

<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/perka/id428620381?mt=8>

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BCounsell
I'm drawing up a design to make them a better stand. What they have just looks
like it's waiting to get pushed off a counter. They are only a few blocks
away, I could just drop it off.

~~~
dmix
Is it not just the iPad software and the card reader they are selling?

I thought the stand was for demonstration.

The video shows a different stand than the homepage pic.

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xianshou
I just stopped in at a coffee shop in the middle of Philly the other day using
Register. Guess they got access to the beta testing.

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callumjones
It's great to see a company taking an existing product (iPad) and building on
top of it's powerful software and hardware.

Instead of stores having to buy some expensive & clunky cash register or crazy
expensive PoS solution; they can pop down to their local Apple or electronics
store & buy a future PoS device.

It's very powerful when anyone can start accepting payments by just popping
down to their local electronics store.

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felixchan
That's a horrible logo. I had no idea that was "Square" at all when just
looking at the logo.

~~~
kmfrk
As opposed to an Apple? I get that the logo is modelled on the dongle (which
may or may not get phased out), but it's extremely generic and will probably
not work very well for branding purposes in the future.

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mycodebreaks
We need such innovation (at any level - design, engineering, technology) Keep
it up guys!

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kirillzubovsky
I wonder what Jack Dorsey is thinking, while reading of all these. I seriously
doubt he worries about "...one retailer and they weren't using the device
because the square was too wonky ..." It just sounds like a problem too easy
to fix, and I am sure they've got bigger fish to fry.

~~~
dakrisht
Dorsey is definitely reading, or I certainly hope he is!

Good information here. Lot's of valid points, complaints, arguments. There are
many ways to improve Square, the UI, the hardware, the usability, training,
etc. They have a solid product.

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learc83
I really wish they would work on pushing a final version of their API.

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ssn
Any update on when this will be available in european countries?

~~~
theneb
I'm hoping from the November press release they're moving international this
year. They took on Branson as an investor too.

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albahk
The app is downloaded via the App Store - according to the terms of the app
store, aren't Apple entitled to claim 30% of transactions through the app?

edit: Or, at the very least, entitled to 30% of the fees charged by Square to
the merchant?

~~~
urbanjunkie
Although the immediate parent is being downvoted, it's actually interesting to
understand why Apple have allowed this without collecting a % of the
transaction fees that Square receives.

Or perhaps they are collecting a (lower?) percentage.

~~~
thatjoshguy
From what I understand In-app purchases (where Apple gets a 30% cut) are only
required when the item is only for use from within the app (virtual currency,
level packs, digital subscription etc). Purchasing a physical items does not
require transaction to use Apple's IAP API. In fact, it is expressly
forbidden.

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unicron
This is a gimmick or a hack. Not much better than what you will see on
hackaday.com

I did a LOT of POS work a few years ago for small businesses. An iPad/iPhone
would be dead and broken in less than a month for most retailers. You need
pretty hard wearing industrial grade kit if you don't want to throw it away 3
times a year. That flimsy card reader is almost comedic - you'll break it and
your device.

If it's your revenue collection equipment, it makes sense to buy something
that will last i.e. was designed for the job rather than sit there not being
able to take cards.

~~~
Game_Ender
Apple uses iPod touches with a more beefy card reader setup in their retail
stores. You could do the same with a slightly modified iPad case, and a
reinforced reader.

~~~
unicron
It would still be no good. If you drop one, it's dead. If you drop a Barclays
PDQ, you pick it up and continue the transaction.

