
YouTube engineer in critical condition after rampage during bad LSD trip - lanrh1836
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/youtube-engineer-lsd-rampage-arrested
======
jMyles
If the details of this story are true - and sadly, in cases in the USA where
police shoot someone, it's very reasonable to doubt any claims made by
"authorities" unless there is ironclad evidence - then I think that there is
zero chance that this drug was in fact LSD.

LSD can certainly cause confusion and terror, but it does not generally cause
the kind of delirium and rage described by police here.

Also, the reporting in this particular article is pathetic:

> The National Institute on Drug Abuse describes LSD as "one of the most
> powerful mind-altering chemicals." Some people who use the drug can
> experience psychosis or paranoia.

NIDA is basically completely discredited at this point on the effects of this
class of drugs, having spent the past four decades denying their medical
benefits.

Furthermore, the unsourced assertion "Some people who use the drug can
experience psychosis or paranoia", obviously relying on the Osmond-era
"psychotomimetic" designation, appears to have been a side-effect of LSD being
administered in the sterile conditions of a mental institution in the 1950s
and early 1960s and not typical of the effects outside that setting.

It is much more likely that this person unwittingly ingested a different
compound - and again, that's assuming that these details are even accurate in
the first place and not a CYA story by a person trying to justify discharging
a firearm at another person.

~~~
almost_usual
So a YouTube engineer with a degree from Stanford couldn’t accurately identify
LSD or dose it correctly. That gives me hope for everyone else...

~~~
jMyles
I'm not sure that this person's background, education, or employer is
indicative of the degree of reasonable hope. LSD (along with all other drugs)
needs to be made legal and regular so that it becomes easy to obtain a
quality-controlled dose.

~~~
almost_usual
>I'm not sure that this person's background, education, or employer is
indicative of the degree of reasonable hope

How is it not indicative? Someone with a graduate degree from Stanford who
works at YouTube as an engineer should have above average intelligence? If we
believe the prestige of Stanford and Google then world class intelligence. Yet
this person couldn’t responsibly take LSD or correctly test it. He lost his
mind and went on a violent rampage that hurt a lot of innocent people.

>LSD (along with all other drugs) needs to be made legal and regular so that
it becomes easy to obtain a quality-controlled dose.

That’s fine, as long as people pay the price of doing something irresponsibly
and innocent people aren’t harmed by it. Do it in a controlled environment
with a guide.

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profmonocle
His employment at YouTube doesn't seem relevant to the story. Feels very
clickbaity to put that in the headline (unless they're implying working at
YouTube is somehow connected to the attack, which I don't get from the
article.)

~~~
hellofunk
It’s not even in the headline, it was just added for the hacker news link!

~~~
ThrowawayR2
The bio blurb from the article states " _On his LinkedIn page, Koffi states
that he is a Stanford-educated software engineer at YouTube and previously
worked at Microsoft._ " There are a lot of developers who read HN; perhaps
somebody who will happen across this article knows him?

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hombre_fatal
We'll never know if the drug was actually LSD.

Reminds me of all the "LSD" and "MDMA" in Austin TX was likely just shit like
25I and MDPV when I lived there and had a bunch of tripsafe test kits. There
was a time where I would go to a rave and wonder if there was a single person
actually rolling.

~~~
lake_vincent
Agreed. Pure LSD is extremely rare nowadays, so the odds of it being something
more nefarious are relatively high.

~~~
grawprog
A lot of what's sold as lsd is actually stuff like 2cb, 2ce or other research
chemicals. The effects can be similar, especially if you don't know any
better, but you can physically overdose on many of those. Pure lsd should be
tasteless and odourless, and shouldn't make you sick, though even that's not a
reliable indicator that you've actually got lsd.

~~~
chidg
With regard to 2CB and 2CE - This might be somewhat true in some local
markets, but it seems very unlikely to be widespread, at least with
experienced drug users, because the dose of LSD vs the 2Cs (except for the
brominated ampetamine 2C derivatives) are very different. The dose of LSD is
usually around 100 micrograms while a dose of 2CB is somewhere around 10-30
milligrams - so around 100 times as much. The amount of LSD in a dose is so
small that it can fit on a blotter paper. This is not the case with most other
drugs. There are some 2C derivatives which have very low doses and can be put
on to blotter, but they tend to have much longer durations of action than LSD
so would also be discernable by an experienced user (or even a new user who
had done some reading before hand).

There are other increasingly common substances like NBOMe which are
substitutable for LSD in potency and are also very dangerous. These have been
reported sold as LSD on blotting paper and also show up in 'ecstacy' pills.

Going back to the original topic, it does seem unlikely the drug in question
was LSD. It is more common for people to experience violent psychosis on drugs
like PCP or potentially some ampthetamines. I hope the guy recovers.

------
throwaway66666
I hope everyone in the story recovers. I have tried LSD a few times, and the
thing that surprises me the most, is how bad his friends in the story are.

First of all, the rule is, when you get a new batch. 1 person tries a small
dose to judge the potency and effects. You never give your friends drugs you
have not sampled them first. You can poison yourself, but you may not poison
others. Now, assuming this was not LSD they would have caught it early. But
assuming that it is...

With inexperienced people you need a trip sitter. Someone who is sober (or is
much more experienced) and lays out a plan for the trip. Things that you will
watch, music to listen to, when it is time to snack. etc. A good trip sitter
can change a bad trip to a good trip very easily. And the preparation for this
starts even before taking the drug, by telling you some of the bad things you
might experience (thought loops, very strong deja-vu, thinking you are trapped
in that moment for eternity) and how to deal with the illusion of each one.

Also since LSD lasts to max 12 hours, it is good to amp the dosage slowly and
not all at once. Secondly you need to feel comfortable. If you are in an
unfamiliar house, and there is let's say a basement that creeps you out while
sober. Oh boy... you 're going to have such a bad time thinking about that
basement and all the spooky stuff in it when tripping! You must be comfortable
and relaxed. Noone told him that? Noone was there to see he was acting
strange? They were cool with him downing 4 doses?

Bad trips can turn good very easily. And feel-good moments quickly take a
short dark turn when something unexpected happens (like a random ring of the
doorbell - no one was expecting). Yes something that small can cause terror.
You need somebody to guide you and take your mind of the bad stuff. I think
the best explanation I can give is... remember when you were a kid and you
were eating your favorite candy. Do you remember how much better it tasted
back then than it does today? Also, imagine that as a kid you watched
something that really scared you, but today you 'd laugh at non-scary it
actually is. That's pretty much how your perception changes + color
hallucinations.

------
bdcravens
He won't be a YouTube engineer in 48 hours, I'm sure.

If he survives, he's going to end up with at least 20 years in the California
prison system.

Every hour he spent studying at Stanford, every tough coding interview he
endured at Microsoft and YouTube, and every other sacrifice he made, are now
likely irreparably flushed down the toilet.

Yet "we" (ie the HN and related crowd who engage in hero worship) love to wax
poetic about Steve Jobs's LSD quote.

~~~
kodz4
32 year old on top of it. With the Andy Rubin news yday, it feels like the US
is just flushing itself down the toilet everyday that goes by.

~~~
leoh
Agreed that there's a lot of messed up stuff in the world, but this is
overgeneralization/availability bias.

------
swampthinker
According to the article, it seems like he doubled down on a bad trip -
probably the worst thing you could do while on LSD.

~~~
friendly_chap
Not necessarily. Andrew Feldmar, a prominent psychologist I held in high
regard advises to do exactly that: if you feel bad already, might as well take
more.

~~~
grawprog
I try to keep my comments civil on here, but that's horrible fucking advice.
The best thing you can do is try and relax and calm down, taking more of a
drug you're having a bad experience with is the opposite of what anyone should
do ever.

~~~
angel_j
There is wisdom in it. Some drugs have a kind of scuzzy zone somewhere between
a mild dose and next level dose. If you're taking a drug that perforce
requires you to "let go", it may help take enough that you lose agency to
resist.

~~~
friendly_chap
Yeah, unfortunately the people in this thread do not have experience with this
stuff and just reply based on their gut feeling.

That middle zone you describe where you are stuck between the two worlds are
probably the worst.

~~~
grawprog
Actually I have experience with lsd, mushrooms and some other hallucinogens.
I've gotten really high on them. I've talked about it in my comments here
before. I still believe it's bad advice especially for inexperienced users.

~~~
friendly_chap
Fair enough, I do agree it's a dangerous game, I just don't agree that it's a
completely stupid point.

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bigmattystyles
Is it weird that youtube is expected to comment per the article's author?

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sn_master
Why are all the articles saying he's a YouTube engineer ? How is that relevant
?

~~~
futureastronaut
He's the subject of the story, and occupation/employer are a major part of our
identities. This is not "YouTube user goes on drug-fueld rampage," which would
be superfluous.

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BeatLeJuce
I don't see how the fact that he's a youtube engineer is relevant at all to
this lsd-trip-gone-(very)-bad story

------
almost_usual
The psychedelic subject on HN is so biased. Submit a post about how a small
LSD dose can help treat schizophrenia and it gets hundreds of points.

Submit a post about how someone goes on a violent rampage after dosing LSD
irresponsibly and it gets flagged then downvoted.

Considering his employer and education (a lot of people are arguing it’s
relevance) he could have easily been a HN community member. It’s like readers
only focus on the positives of psychedelics and never want to discuss both
sides.

------
earthstabber
Besides actual issues with mental health history, is there any way to know if
someone will react this way to LSD? Set and setting may not be enough in these
cases, it seems?

~~~
staticautomatic
Always carry benzos in case of bad trip.

~~~
hi5eyes
benzos and a trip sitter would've avoided some of this at least could've
calmed him down

~~~
staticautomatic
Idk what the sitter situation was but it sounds like this got out of hand
pretty fast. If they couldn't calm him I imagine the best they could do is pin
him down and tie him up.

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ltr_
It could be anything (nMBome - 2C-x - mixed with amphetamines), it is very
rare to find pure LSD on the streets.

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buboard
I wonder if Youtube will now ban LSD-related videos

~~~
DanieI
If YouTube is willing to please their advertisers or decrease liability by
banning content on hacking which could help people within the computer
industry identify and prevent cyber attacks, then I wouldn't be surprised if
YouTube banned everything related to drug harm reduction and educational
content about how they work inside the human body for similar reasons.

------
hi5eyes
this is why (people with mental issues should deffo not touch drugs in
general, much less strong psychedelics) #1 test ur shhit #2 trip sitter (if
shit goes down they can reel it in) #3 low doses

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sadness2
Tabloid-style headline. Was this in private? It should stay that way (it's
nobody's business except those directly affected). Was it public? Media
shouldn't be broadcasting his place of work. Will not read.

