
Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat - nradov
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/21/482322571/silicon-valley-s-bloody-plant-burger-smells-tastes-and-sizzles-like-meat
======
ergothus
I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously
think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a
fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing.

I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that
dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying
in my opinion, which immediately removes over half the vegetarian options out
there, just as an example), so I consider myself a decent bellweather for
people who like the tastes of meat but want to actually eat less of it for
various reasons.

The options that already exist today are quite varied. Boca, Morningstar,
Beyond Meat, and Quorn are all big names that offer meat alternatives that
taste VERY different from each other. Most of my meat eating friends won't
even try any of these, sight unseen. (When they see them, they tend to have
even more reluctance). So, while I think it's absolutely worthwhile to make
alternatives that seem more "real", there is still a stigma to overcome just
by virtue of being fake. And in america, at least, where meat-eating is tied
to masculinity and bacon is worshipped, that's a tough stigma to shake.

Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already - I've had chicken
nuggets that meat eaters had no idea were fake, and I fed my in-laws a "turkey
loaf" dinner for Thanksgiving for years without them realizing - but matching
the taste of "quality" meats hasn't yet happened.

~~~
wavefunction
When I visit India and eat vegetarian food properly prepared by a culture that
has refined vegetarian cuisine beyond "fake meat", I don't miss meat at all.

Much of Western food is only expected to be an accompaniment to a meat dish,
which is why you can't just cut meat out and eat the vegetable dishes you're
used to when you're eating meat as well, imnsho.

~~~
wil421
Not a vegetarian but I do go out with many Indian colleagues who are
vegetarian and have family members or friends who dont eat meat.

I do agree with the assumption that western vegetarians tend to want meat
replacements. The biggest difference for me was seeing how a lot of Indian
cuisine is actually unhealthy. Most everything is fried in oil or has so much
clarified butter its unhealthy. The Indian diet (at least the people in my
office) seems more unhealthy vs the western vegetarian diet and several people
in my office have had heart attacks.

~~~
mycodebreaks
It is true for most of the restaurants serving different cuisines. Home-
prepared Thai food is healthier than the food at Thai restaurants. Replace
Thai with Chinese, Burmese, Vietnamese, Indian, and it would still hold true.

~~~
cthalupa
Having eaten a lot of home-prepared South Indian food, I'm not sure I really
agree. Home cooked food has the ability to be healthier than restaurant
prepared, but I don't know if there's enough data to really claim one way or
the other - homecooked is not healthier just by virtue of being homecooked.

~~~
pkaye
For south Indian food the problem is excess rice and starch.

~~~
redraga
I'd say most vegetarian Indian food has the problem of excess starch and
carbs. One potential reason for the wide prevalence of diabetes in India.

------
pappyo
Meat enthusiast here. There is no one who wants a viable meat alternative for
meat eaters than me. The bleeding heart (pun intended) in me cares about the
sustainability of meat and the sheer cost of ethical farming. Fact of the
matter is though, I won't give up eating meat. I love it, so so much. And I
have a leery eye towards meat substitutes. This product for example:

\- How well does this product replicate the Maillard Reaction [0]? This is key
when we're talking about taste and texture.

\- Why did the author taste the burger with 82 toppings slathered on top by a
professional chef? That's like testing out a new 21 speed, strapped to the top
of an SUV.

\- Why are they (presumably) trying to recreate chuck? Ground chuck is a
terrible thing to replicate. It's like burger meat designed by committee[1].

\- Is the sizzle coming from only extracted water from the plant burger (water
vapor, decreasing heating temp)? Or are their lipids present spiking the
flame, positively contributing to the cooking process?

That said, I'd love to give it a shot. Proper seasoning, a nice medium rare
with a slice of American. But I'm not holding my breath. Meat is very hard.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction)
[1]: [http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/10/the-burger-
lab-b...](http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/10/the-burger-lab-best-
burger-blend-profiles-of-eight-cuts-of-beef.html)

~~~
entee
It's quite hard but not impossible (pun intended). Full disclosure: Patrick
Brown was on my committee in grad school. I've had many long conversations
with him about these things and he's quite aware of all the challenges. The
talk of scientifically breaking down the problem and figuring out exactly what
makes meat meat is not just talk, it's actually the way he and the company
operates. I think the heavy duty science they're putting into this is going to
eventually yield a "burger" that is functionally indistinguishable in many
applications.

I think there's always going to be a place for The Counter or other such
premium burgers, but what about the zillions of patties used by the likes of
Burger King, McDonald's, In-N-Out? Those are cooked heavily, and flavor
engineered six ways to Sunday. The top of the SUV analogy is nice, but
realistically most burgers are not terribly subtle flavor experiences coming
from the brilliance of the meat substrate.

How many millions of gallons of water and tons of greenhouse gases would be
eliminated if 10% of patties at big chains were vegetarian? Even small shifts
in consumption could have incredibly positive impacts on the environment and
perhaps even overall health.

~~~
pappyo
> The top of the SUV analogy is nice, but realistically most burgers are not
> terribly subtle flavor experiences coming from the brilliance of the meat
> substrate.

Are we talking about fast food burgers? Then yes, flavor country lives in the
lab, not the burger. But this article seemed to be strongly hinting at a meat
substitute, not just a burger substitute for fast food chains (which I agree
with you, would be wonderful). If the flavor experience isn't coming from the
meat, than why is it so hard to find a widely excepted meat substitute?

That's why it seems strange the author loaded up their burger with exquisite
toppings to taste the meat.

------
ChuckMcM
I would definitely like to try the products (another reason to make a trip
back to Colorado).

Lots of questions long term though. Is this the "Ethanol of Meat" ? Where the
total cost/impact of producing the good overwhelms the benefits? Ground chuck
roast is $7/lb and currently this stuff is more expensive than that. Can it be
less expensive than that? Way less expensive?

The fundamental question is does this move us toward a more efficient use of
the resources we have to feed us, or is it more the high tech / high energy
lifestyle? I am always wondering is this this increasing the kilowatt / person
ratio or decreasing it.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
Ground chuck roast is heavily subsidized; it would be surprising if any fake
meat product could actually rival the energy and water costs needed to raise
and process beef. So one solution would be to price both more fairly, in which
case lots of consumers might be happier to choose the vegan option.

~~~
jonknee
How exactly is ground chuck roast heavily subsidized? Is it any different than
the subsidies for agriculture that make up meat alternatives?

~~~
blacksmith_tb
They are both subsidized, clearly - but since it takes 8lbs / 3.6kg of grain
to produce 1lb / 0.45kg of beef [1], and the livestock then receive additional
subsidies [2], the effect is magnified.

1:
[https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?artic...](https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=29892)
2:
[https://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=live...](https://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=livestock)

~~~
jonknee
If it takes more agriculture product to produce meat, the plain plant version
should then be cheaper.

~~~
kilotaras

         cost of meat/plant version = real cost of producing - subsidies
    

Since subsidies in meat version are bigger, end result can be cheaper despite
having higher "real" cost.

------
buckbova
> "When I tried a mini burger slathered in vegan mayo, mashed avocado,
> caramelized onions and Dijon prepared by San Francisco chef Traci Des Jardin
> at the company's headquarters in Redwood City, I was floored."

Honestly a good chef can make cardboard taste good. But as a daily meat eater
I'd love a good ground beef alternative.

~~~
kafkaesq
_Honestly a good chef can make cardboard taste good._

Which is exactly the core operating principle upon which the fast food
industry (including much of what is put on the shelves in larger grocery
chains) basically works these days:

low-quality base ingredients + sugar, spices, MSG + gratuitous fats/oils +
marketing == profit

~~~
gtk40
But to be fair, MSG is amazing.

------
sp332
Meat that you buy in a store, including ground beef, doesn't have blood in it.
The red color is almost entirely myoglobin, not so much hemoglobin. Your
burger doesn't _bleed_. What comes out is just water with some protein
including myoglobin.

------
sethbannon
This is a noble effort. Animal agriculture is pretty terrible. It's massively
wasteful in terms of land use and water use. It's incredibly inefficient when
it comes to energy use (beef cattle production requires an energy input to
protein output ratio of 54:1 [1]). And, of course, there are the animal
welfare concerns.

Even given all the problems, I'm convinced that people won't stop eating meat
unless there is a market alternative that's at least equivalent in terms of
price, taste, smell, texture, and nutrition. While the plant-based
alternatives are getting better and better and I'm a big fan, I'm much more
excited about the cultured meat alternatives.

Basically, you can think of a cow as a biological machine inside which certain
processes occur which lead to things humans like to eat (milk, meat). If you
can replicate those process in the lab instead of in the cow, you can get real
meat without the negative side effects mentioned above.

Until very recently, this field had been relegated to academia, but there are
now several companies working on commercializing it, like Memphis Meats, Mosa
Meats, and Modern Meadow. In my mind, this is the only solution: give people
real meat, made without the animals.

[1] [http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-
feed-80...](http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-
feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat) [2] disclaimer: I'm an investor
in Memphis Meats
([http://www.memphismeats.com/](http://www.memphismeats.com/))

~~~
scoot
/disclaimer/disclosure/

------
iagooar
I eat meat, love the taste of it, but would be the first to switch to a plant-
based alternative.

I know it's tough to acknowledge it, but lots of people like me are a bit
hypocrites when it comes to meat: we hate killing animals, but we love the
outcome.

------
wamatt
Nice to see how HN sentiment appears to have shifted towards greater
acceptance or even excitement towards meat alternatives.

For comparison here is the thread from 2012 on the Twitter founders investment
in Beyond Meat

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4330247](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4330247)

------
sosuke
I'm super excited by these startups. It seems to be the most promising meat
alternatives around at least judging by the articles I've read. The faster we
can stop maintaining livestock for meat production the better. It takes the
'middle man' out from plants to people. I love meat and I'm hopeful they can
make a steak someday.

------
andrewfong
I've had the good fortune to try an Impossible Foods burger. It really does
taste like meat. I'm not sure I would say it's indistinguishable from a beef
burger. But I would definitely have a hard time telling it apart from a ground
turkey burger. Or an ostrich burger from Fuddruckers.

~~~
rocky1138
If someone came to your house with it and cooked it on the BBQ, would you have
been able to tell that it was an Impossible Foods burger?

~~~
andrewfong
Well, yes -- but only insofar that it looks like beef but tastes more like
turkey (at least to me).

------
pillowkusis
I've tried the beyond burger[0], which is similar in that they're both trying
to be meatless meat burgers. I don't know if they taste anything alike.

The beyond burger was interesting. It was the closest to a meat patty I've
eaten, of all the beef substitutes. It cooks and looks like a beef burger.
However, the taste and texture is only reminiscent of meat. Against, it's the
closest I've seen anyone get. But it's not a beef burger, and it's worse for
inviting the comparison. I'll stick to bean burgers for now. I hope this
impossible burger is better.

[0]: [http://beyondmeat.com/products/view/beyond-
burger](http://beyondmeat.com/products/view/beyond-burger)

------
timdellinger
Adding heme is a brilliant idea - and I think high amounts of iron would make
it a great product. There are a few things that are important to watch to make
sure you get enough of when you're a vegetarian, and iron is one of them.
(Women who donate blood have their blood tested for iron, and are sometimes
surprised the learn that they're low in iron.)

~~~
nradov
Excess iron consumption is a risk factor for heart disease.

[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140423170903.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140423170903.htm)

~~~
tim333
Glancing at that I'm guessing it's just that people who pig out on steaks and
burgers tend to get more heart attacks and it correlates with iron
consumption.

~~~
nradov
No there's more to it than diet. Similar findings have been found in multiple
studies. There is evidence to indicate that this is why pre-menopausal women
have a lower risk of heart disease than men and post-menopausal women (after
controlling for other differences).

------
rdl
Awesome! If this is close to meat in macronutrient profile (no carb,
protein/fat based), I'd be fine switching >90% of my ground beef consumption
to it as soon as commercially available as long as it is less than $10/pound
(cheaper would be better, though).

Even if a great steak is still better/worth eating, no one will say that fast
food hamburger patties, taco bell mystery meat, etc. are in any way exemplars
of amazing meat. If an animal is going to die for me to eat, it should be
something like steak, not the lowest quality ground beef possible.

They're really smart going after the carnivore market.

------
broahmed
Family member made me watch Cowspiracy on Netflix, a documentary on the
effects/unsustainability of large-scale animal agriculture. I'm sure someone
on HN can prove the movie wrong, but it did scare me into wanting to reduce my
meat consumption. If these faux meats can be produced large-scale sustainably
and with significantly less negative impact than raising the real meats, I'd
say that's a win.

------
DINKDINK
I took part in a taste testing for a "revolutionary new vegetarian burger" in
the past few months in the SF Bay Area. It was marketed for upscale locations.

That said, it was incredibly good to the point I asked one of the researchers
who was making it so I could buy it. Unfortunately they couldn't disclose to
me that information, maybe it was this product.

------
verisimilidude
I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, I love the science and I love watching these engineers get
closer and closer to mimicking meat with each passing year. If they can
succeed in creating a cheaper, tastier alternative to real meat, there could
be untold benefits for both our health and the environment.

On the other hand, the article mentioned that this particular patty uses
coconut oil. Well, I happen to be allergic to coconuts, so that leaves me out.
I'm weary of encountering in daily life yet another highly engineered
foodstuff that requires close scrutiny. I'm especially worried about eating
something like this on accident someday, if they get close enough to the
patina of the real meat, and having an allergic reaction.

There's a part of me that hopes the mimicry is a passing fad, and instead they
use the techniques to create new tastes and experiences. That's more fun in
general, and it's easier for guys like me to distinguish and avoid if needed.

------
logicallee
interesting, but

>chef Traci Des Jardins served the Impossible Burger (pictured uncooked) with
vegan mayo, Dijon mustard, mashed avocado, caramelized onions, chopped
cornichon, tomato and lettuce on a pretzel bun.

I think I'd probably enjoy a single postage stamp served in the above
configuration (in place of the patty). Obviously my review of the postage
stamp would be heavily influenced by these trimmings.

Given the rest of the article, they should have just browned it and served it
on a $0.50 store-bought hamburger bun [http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/hamburger-
buns](http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/hamburger-buns) with some lettuce and
ketchup.

Or is it not _actually_ up to the task? The rest of the article fawns that it
is, but they don't put their hamburger where the reviewer's mouth is. They put
mashed avocado, carmelized onion, and chopped cornichon on a pretzel bun
there.

------
lindseya
As a vegan, I'm very excited by this news because it might convince others to
give it a try. Today someone told me that they recently ate a chicken burger
at Veggie Grill and she didn't know until later that it was not chicken. She
said at the time she thought, that was a really good chicken sandwich!

------
asciimo
The SF Bay Are Vegans in Technology meetup group organized a Future of Food
panel last month featuring some local biotech companies in this space
([http://www.sfvtech.org/oakvegtech](http://www.sfvtech.org/oakvegtech)).
Memphis Meats is one of the SF Indie Bio accelerator companies that is working
on cultured meat ([http://sf.indiebio.co/mentor/memphis-
meats/](http://sf.indiebio.co/mentor/memphis-meats/))

------
dharma1
I was a vegetarian from 14 to 32 or so. I think eating less meat (than most
people currently do) is definitely desirable, both for the planet and your own
health, but you don't need to stop eating meat altogether.

There is so much we don't yet understand about nutrition or metabolism that I
would take a very low tech approach to diet. The more we process things the
more chance there is of things going wrong.

I find it fascinating to look at diets of groups people who live relatively
long and disease free lives. It's almost always minimally processed food

~~~
bcheung
> The more we process things the more chance there is of things going wrong.

Actually the whole point of factories and assembly lines is consistency and
efficiency. There's a huge amount of variability with current meat based on
how it was raised, transportation, age, butchering conditions, etc.

------
qq66
> Last year, Impossible Foods turned down Google's offer to buy the company
> for $200 million to $300 million.

Looks like there isn't any business that Google won't get into.

------
riot504
Do we really believe our body's are going to process 'fake meat' as 'real
meat'? I am highly skeptical of that aspect as well. Moreover, we are removing
a very natural element out of food (killing an animal for meat) out of the
picture by growing meat in a lab, this is a very primal element that
technology has forgotten.

The problem stems from current livestock farming practices. Fixing that
problem is far easier than trying to create lab grown meat, and in the end
will be healthier as it doesn't require a change in our biological system.

Plus food is not complicated. Humans have made it complicated over the last
50-60 years. Food has been a basic necessity of life, yet most struggle with
every aspect related to food, from acquiring it to cooking it.

Don't get me wrong I see this type of innovation as being very important to
long-term space travel or planet colonization but for everyday human
consumption I view this as a waste of time and energy.

------
maerF0x0
IMO they need to not only replicate flavor, but also macro nutrient profiles
and a few other things like omega3s and CLA found in grass fed beef.

I think we're better off cleaning up the meat industry than trying to make
plants into meat. Fixing things like CAFOs and our corn subsidies could go a
long way to a more sustainable meat.

~~~
MOARDONGZPLZ
Out of the set of mean eaters who this market would target, I really think the
subset that thinks about or considers omega 3 and CLA in their meat is
minuscule. I'm a very health conscious omnivore and honestly didn't even know
there were omega 3s in beef. Guess that's another excuse for me to eat
hamburgers...

~~~
maerF0x0
Omega3 - Omega 6 ratio in fats (more omega 3 is better) may be healthier. It
seems that grass fed beef has better ratios
[http://www.mercola.com/beef/health_benefits.htm](http://www.mercola.com/beef/health_benefits.htm)

I'm regularly surprised by how little the average person knows about the
things that make/keep them healthy. If I really wanted a car to last I'd be
sure I knew all about the gasoline and oil I was putting into it.

~~~
PerfectElement
There is always a link to Dr. Mercola's articles when people try to defend the
health benefits of eating meat, but no one mentions that is an anti-vaxxer and
has many other unscientific claims on his website.

~~~
maerF0x0
It was just the first hit in google tbh and I already knew it to be true, just
needed a link to attempt to satisfy haters.

Seeing as you'd rather attack than do some useful work, I'll do it for you.
See below:

"A healthy diet should consist of roughly one to four times more omega-6 fatty
acids than omega-3 fatty acids. The typical American diet tends to contain 11
to 30 times more omega -6 fatty acids than omega -3, a phenomenon that has
been hypothesized as a significant factor in the rising rate of inflammatory
disorders in the United States[40]. Table ​Table22 shows significant
differences in n-6:n-3 ratios between grass-fed and grain-fed beef, with and
overall average of 1.53 and 7.65 for grass-fed and grain-fed, respectively,
for all studies reported in this review."[1]

[1]:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2846864/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2846864/)

------
MarkMc
Everyone is talking about the environmental effects, but what about the huge
economic shifts that would come with the introduction of a viable meat
substitute?

If the substitute is cheaper and tastier, a large chunk of the agricultural
industry will disappear almost overnight. For many poor countries agriculture
supports a large percentage of the workforce.

And if the company that develops the meat substitute can protect their
manufacturing process from being copied through patents or simply keeping it a
secret, then it will become enormously rich and powerful.

So you'll effectively have a transfer of wealth from poor farmers to a large
US corporation on a massive scale.

Is that a good thing?

(And yes, I recognise that poor people will also benefit by having a cheaper
source of 'meat')

------
daveheq
Isn't the point of being a vegetarian to avoid eating meat? Then why would you
want to eat vegetables that look and act like meat?

If you really prefer your food to look like meat, maybe you're not actually a
vegetarian and your body is telling you to get some meat.

~~~
Sylos
Because there's different motivations for being vegetarian. Some do it,
because they simply find meat disgusting, in which case, yes, they probably
don't want their food to look, taste or feel like meat.

But others do it for moral reasons, and to them, meat might be the tastiest
food in the world, they just choose to abstain from it, because well, you
know, animals have to die for it. So, if they can eat something which tastes
like meat, but doesn't require animals to die for it, that's the best of both
worlds to them.

------
icelancer
I feel like I see these posts regularly on HN and reddit from various
companies with "meat killing" veggie meats, but they are never for sale. I
sign up for the newsletters and no one ever has products for sale, just more
hype. When can I try these?

~~~
broahmed
As mentioned in the article, another company Beyond Meat makes some products
which are currently available in some stores. Their website has a locator for
which stores carry them.

------
bcheung
I wish they kept the fat.

I try to eat Paleo / Ketogenic and it is so hard to find quality fat in foods
because of an unjustified fear of fat.

Cholesterol is correlated with health issues in the same way that firemen are
correlated with fires. It's not a causal relationship.

~~~
maerF0x0
You could add fat yourself quite easily. Coconut oil/butter for example.

------
kriro
Looks like a pretty neat "engineering feat". I'll certainly try it if it ever
becomes available here (I'm an avid meat eater and low&slow bbq lover).

Since I'm sure many vegetarians/vegans will read this thread I'm curious why
so many v-products try to imitate the look and feel of meat. This has always
startled me a bit. Why not create awesome new/distinct stuff instead of the
typical "tofu shaped like a piece of meat" I see so often.

(apart from the fun engineering/optimizing aspect of recreating something with
different ingredients which is fun).

------
Imagenuity
The Impossible Burger is made with wheat protein (source: the NPR article). If
this is indeed gluten, then there's a lot of hopeful people that can't eat
this burger, myself included.

Also, why call it wheat protein instead of gluten? That's like food
manufacturers calling sugar 'cane juice'.

------
tracker1
Tastes like meat is something I'm really doubtful of... Resembles the taste of
meat maybe... but the coconut oil, while relatively mild definitely adds a
definitive flavor. And while I appreciate the sentiment, saying something
tastes like something else doesn't make it true. Similarly, I think bison
tastes better than beef, and that alligator tastes better than chicken.

I'm also not sure if this is better than processing mealworms and similar
actual meat that can be fed algae and mass-produced would be, if at all.

------
tobr
There seems to be a lot happening in this area lately.

There's a new soy based meat substitute called Oumph, which I believe is only
available here in Sweden so far. The texture and taste is fantastic. It's the
first time I've tried a meat immitation where I don't just feel like I should
have gone for the real thing. I'm not a vegetarian but I've actually found
myself buying it more often than real meat lately.

It wouldn't work in a burger though - it's more chicken or pork like.

------
billmalarky
From what I've previously read, the challenge isn't creating meat-alternatives
that taste and smell like meat. The challenge is recreating the texture of
meat.

------
mgraczyk
Interesting. As somebody who is not at all familiar with the "alternative
meat" industry, my first question is, why not use real cow blood?

You wouldn't need to kill the animal to use its blood and you could extract
more blood from an animal than meat. Presumably the environmental impact of a
blood only farm would be substantially lower than that of a meat farm. Or is
that not the case?

~~~
Idontagree
I think draining an animal of blood over and over is also pretty cruel.

~~~
aninhumer
It could be done in a way that isn't cruel. Just take a little at a time, like
we do with humans. It might not even be less efficient if the rate of blood
production is fairly constant. (I don't know enough biology to speculate.)

~~~
saynsedit
It's cruel to take a human's blood without their consent, even if done
painlessly.

~~~
aninhumer
I don't think it would be cruel for animals, because once you remove pain as a
factor, the only suffering left for humans exists on a psychological level
that I don't believe animals would experience.

~~~
saynsedit
Okay, I don't believe you would suffer at a psychological level either, does
that give me the right to take your blood without your consent?

------
orbitingpluto
Possible benefit. Less chance of food poisoning over real meat? If a cow has a
soul it has been clearly exorcised in most fast food beef patties by the
lengths they go to to make them safe.

Humorous but relevant:
[https://vimeo.com/18160094#t=665s](https://vimeo.com/18160094#t=665s)

~~~
readams
Judging by the number of salmonella outbreaks from fresh produce recently, I
don't think you'll get much food safely benefit.

~~~
tkyjonathan
You only way to get salmonella or E.coli on vegetables is if it has been
exposed to animals or animal extraments.

~~~
douche
Or human excrement, say from the underpaid, most likely illegal farm-hand that
is picking them.

------
insaneirish
> And because it's plant-based, this "meat" has no cholesterol.

This statement is loaded with judgment. In response, I'd love if the author
could provide some good data that shows a link between dietary cholesterol and
blood serum cholesterol, let alone between dietary cholesterol and mortality.

~~~
not_today_james
Also see:
[https://chemistry.osu.edu/~gopalan.5/file/7B.PDF](https://chemistry.osu.edu/~gopalan.5/file/7B.PDF)

------
peterwwillis
It's disturbing how much they focus on blood and sizzling. I'm not a vampire.
I just want something that tastes really good.

Honestly, if plant-eaters took a fraction of the time they take replicating
meats and just spent it making _tastier vegetables_ I think we'd all have
different diets by now.

------
mucker
No one has a problem with releasing hemoglobin producing yeast? No one? That
sounds terrifying in that many _other_ industries rely on wild yeast.

This goes beyond the general case for GMO (where wild growth is generally
crippled) and involves actively modifying the wider environment. This is a
serious problem.

------
Sami_Lehtinen
Pulled Oats are also aiming for same market.
[http://www.foodandwine.com/blogs/pulled-oats-are-newest-
meat...](http://www.foodandwine.com/blogs/pulled-oats-are-newest-meat-
substitute)

------
madengr
"So, he decided to use yeast instead. By taking the soybean gene that encodes
the heme protein and transferring it to yeast, the company has been able to
produce vast quantities of the bloodlike compound".

So it sold out at Whole Foods, and it's GMO. LMAO.

~~~
tim333
They have a bunch of GMO stuff [http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/faqs-
gmos](http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/faqs-gmos)

------
step1profit
I was excited when I saw the Impossible Foods burger on Hacker News—my wife,
who's Hindu, could finally enjoy a what I've been enjoying for years… I showed
her the video and she said: "gross!" wtf lol

------
holri
Taste is also a matter of habituation. The easier, healthier and better
solution is to learn to love natural vegetarien food. I went this way. I do
not miss meat at all, although I ate a lot of it years ago.

------
ck2
I hope it becomes half the cost of meat.

That's the only motivation I fear will change people.

Maybe it will be like gasoline and it will double in price giving electric a
chance to become more robust and popular/adopted.

------
mmgutz
> By taking the soybean gene that encodes the heme protein and transferring it
> to yeast, the company has been able to produce vast quantities of the
> bloodlike compound.

GMO is OK now?

------
JulianMorrison
It sounds like they also have ended up producing synthetic blood. Someone
should package that up for the vampire groupies.

Oh and incidentally, could it be developed into a medical blood replacement?

------
PerfectElement
I think most people are already 95% vegan, since they are against causing
unnecessary suffering and inefficient resource management. The issue is that
there's a variable level of sacrifice that goes into making a practical
transition to plants.

For some, there's enough motivation to do it; for others, the inconvenience of
changing habits and their emotional attachment to certain foods are greater
than their desire to reduce animal suffering and environmental degradation.

I hope that plant meats become so close to animal meat that the complete
experience can be replicated, except for the slaughtering. I know some people
like the slaughtering part, but that's a small minority.

------
wfunction
For those of us looking for something similar that's actually in the market
_right now_ , what's the closest alternative?

~~~
laurenbee
I haven't tried Gardein's burgers, but their faux chicken products are
excellent so I would expect their burgers to be good too.

------
placeybordeaux
No mention of what the price will be. The best way to get converts is to
undercut the price of meat.

------
joshfraser
I'm a content carnivore but have no problem enjoying vegetarian meals on a
regular basis. I don't understand the market for fake meat. Give me a salad or
give me a proper steak, but you can keep your slimy tofu substitute. Garden
Fresh in Palo Alto, I'm looking at you.

------
fakemeatsubs
Interesting topic. Not a vegetarian here, but when I'm eating outside the home
I'll often act as one (no chicken/red meat. Fish/seafood acceptable but I'm
not adventurous. Egg dairy okay). I went to a local chain restaurant that
opened in a nearby shopping center that serves meat substitute. It's called
lord of the fries (does this exist in other countries?). They dont specify on
their website what substitute they use. My views (tried in burger form):

\- Beef. This was terrible. Texture was best described as processed mush.
Nothing like beef, even the processed type. The taste was worse. it was for
some reason sweet. Didn't feel like I was eating beef at all. You'd fool no
one with this. The appearance was convincing, but thats all the praise I had
for it.

\- Chicken: Actually pretty good. Friend was convinced it was real. It did
taste pretty good, actually a little milder than 'real' chicken and without
the sometimes unpleasant strong chicken-y taste (my opinion, im referring to
the slight offputting taste that old/non-fresh chicken sometimes has). So i
could definitely see the utility in this. It still didn't feel
indinstinguishable, if you were paying attention I think you can tell the
difference. Arbitrarily i'd give it a 90% there.

I havent seen the brands other posters discussed in my supermarket (Australia
here). I wonder if meat substitutes are more of an American thing?

A point I wanted to bring up was safety. The experimental nature of these
substitutes leaves me feeling a bit uneasy. The primary reason I never went
back to the above discussed food outlet despite liking their fake-chicken was
because I am unsure what is really inside it. Yes I know its vegetable based.
My guess is soy protein? But how do I know that it's safe, for example too
much soy milk has been shown to have increased estrogen like hormone and
potentially a risk factor for cancers in females, and altered hormonal profile
in males. Ideally I'd like to eat something that's been tested and through a
strict approval process (treated like a pharmaceutical would get my
confidence) to make sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot later. Yes I'm
aware the verdict currently out on red meat isn't great either. But between
chosing the devil I know vs the devil I don't know, i'd rather know what I'm
getting myself into. Interested to hear what others think about this. I admit
I'm not as knowledgeable with the regulatory processes for these things. I
inherently dont trust companies on face value (they have too much conflict of
interest, see tobacco companies or even meat companies for example). I've kept
myself basically informed via documentaries, but so far it feels like we're
all in an experimental phase.

------
bnolsen
so being allergic to wheat, peas (beans) and parsley (celery, carrots, etc)
all this stuff is pretty much poisonous. if they replace the wheat proteins
perhaps...

------
exabrial
Believe it or not, some of us don't want to be vegans. I quite enjoy the taste
of meat. I harvest my own by ethically hunting when I have the time. No I do
not want a vegan substitute.

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11947747](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11947747)
and marked it off-topic.

------
OOPMan
Ahhhh vegans.

Hate meat.

Keep trying to replicate it.

Seems like a bit of a mental disconnect there.

Me?

I'm an omnivore.

------
alrs
If they can do it close to zero carbohydrates per serving, I'm in.

If they can't, it's just another over-processed frankenfood greasing the
slicks to a diabetic future.

~~~
collyw
Is there any proper (peer reviewed) evidence that carbohydrates are bad?

~~~
ethanbond
Carbohydrates in excessive amounts, yes. Meats and cheeses are basically the
last bastions of non carb-laden foods. Pretty much everything that's not
"diet" or meat/cheese is jam packed with carbs for flavor/cost cutting/fat
reduction.

And there's plenty of evidence that this is a bad thing.

~~~
jrockway
Plenty of low-carb things that aren't meat and cheese. Avocados, nuts, etc.

~~~
X86BSD
Ive been an atkins follower for... 20 years. I eat mostly meat. The few things
I indulge in other than meat are mama lupe low carb tortillas, blue diamond
almonds almost all flavors, and some veg like cauliflower because its LC. And
cheese. I am a cheese addict. :/ Other than that I don't touch anything from a
grocery store. I do make paneer cheese and butter from raw milk I get from a
sweet lady that has a small farm 30 minutes from here. Love paneer! And let me
tell you if you have NEVER had butter made from RAW MILK by hand your missing
out. That garbage in the store called "butter" will seriously make you rethink
what the EFF you are eating if you taste raw milk butter you make yourself.
It's not a subtle "eh I can kind of tell the difference." Its more of a "HOLY
SH!@# What the @#!$ have I been eating?!?!" moment.

------
riot504
Why waste all this money and time designing something that is great the way it
is? Give a cow some land, feed it some grass, wait a few months, kill the cow
and now you have real beef. Nature intended it to be this way.

~~~
exodust
Nature also intended humans to use intelligence when sharing thoughts with
others. If you bother to dig a little deeper than your mindless appetite for
cheeseburgers and attempted internet wit, perhaps you'll discover the answer
to your own question.

~~~
riot504
There wasn't any Internet wit in there. The problem stems from current
livestock farming practices. Fixing that problem is far easier than trying to
create lab grown meat, and in the end will be healthier as it doesn't require
a change in our biological system.

Do you really believe our body's are going to process 'fake meat' as 'real
meat'? I am highly skeptical of that aspect as well. Furthermore, you have
taken the very natural element of food out of the picture by growing meat in a
lab, this is a very primal element that technology has forgotten.

Plus food is not complicated. Humans have made it complicated over the last
50-60 years. Food has been a basic necessity of life, yet most struggle with
every aspect related to food, from acquiring it to cooking it.

Don't get me wrong I see this type of innovation has being very important to
long-term space travel or planet colonization but for everyday human
consumption I view this as a waste of time and energy.

~~~
exodust
What are you talking about? The burgers are made from plants and natural
ingredients, it's not "lab grown meat" did you even read the article?

Further more, if you think "fixing livestock farming practices" is easy, then
you're missing the big picture issue where billions of people demand meat on
their plate every day for little cost. The environmental cost of the meat
industry is not on your average meat eater's mind. Is it on your mind? Doesn't
sound like it if you say things like "hey just fix it hmmkay cos I loves my
meat".

~~~
riot504
I read the article and made from plants and natural ingredients still requires
a lab to get everything in the right state to get laboratory meat. Can you
make this your kitchen with easily purchasable appliances? No. Lab produced
meat. I can put a cow on my land and have meat pretty easily in a few months.

Personally, I buy a half of cow from a local farmer every year. The cow is
raised in open fields that I have visited and feed an all grass diet. It comes
out to $6.99 per pound.

Honestly, I don't do this to better then environment, that doesn't cross my
mind in the least and probably never well, I do this because it provides
better tasting meat and a better quality of life for the cow until the day of
the slaughter house.

Meat is necessary to live a strong healthy life. Meat comes from an animal.
Killing is necessary to eat meat. You can keep this processed food.

