
The Icy Mountains of Pluto - Thorondor
https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/the-icy-mountains-of-pluto
======
cossatot
Interestingly, they don't look like mountains formed by collisional or
extensional tectonic processes to my eye (a geologist who studies mountain
formation). They look sort of like diapirs (i.e. lower density material
pushing up through a higher-density medium; frozen methane and nitrogen are
both less dense than water ice[1]) or vaguely like eroded volcanoes, but
without obvious vents. Very different erosional processes could explain some
of it, but it certainly doesn't look like typical plate-tectonic or ice-sheet
topography. Super cool!

[1]:
[https://extras.springer.com/2006/978-1-4020-4351-2/Jenam/Ses...](https://extras.springer.com/2006/978-1-4020-4351-2/Jenam/Session4/4Csatorre.pdf)

~~~
dev1n
Postulating here: Is it possible the mountains are a result of gravitational
pull of Charon on Pluto's water-ice mantle during pluto's formative years? Or
the gravitational affects of Neptune and Pluto's orbital resonance?

~~~
jheriko
how would gravity do this?

orbital trajectories are in free fall... tidal effects are all that are left
and they are huge, smooth gradients, not tiny highly variable things of the
sort that could create surface features like this.

~~~
gizmo686
Tidal forces do serve as an energy source to drive other geological
mechanisms, however they stated in the press conference that Charon is to
small to do this, so we need to find another mechanism for how Pluto is still
active.

------
chasing
That's amazing.

The photo of Charon might be the most straight-up gorgeous of the lot so far:

[https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/charon-s-surprising-
youth...](https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/charon-s-surprising-youthful-and-
varied-terrain)

At least to my eye. It's just such a classic shot of a world.

Anyway: USA! USA! (I kid!) Go humanity!

~~~
jgrahamc
_USA! USA!_

I've seem comments on here that it's not OK to say that, but if you are a US
citizen then I think you damn well should be proud of this and I'll applaud
anyone who makes space work. It's frikkin' hard.

When I see a Soyuz launch I think "Go, Russia" and I felt similar things when
India, China or Japan launch rockets. Just today Ariane put a satellite in
space. Go, Europe!

Hell, as a Brit I'm proud of Prospero:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospero_(satellite)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospero_\(satellite\))

~~~
arrrg
Nations should die and not exist. Shouting nations names with pride is
shameful and dumb. Nationalism kills. It’s an awful, toxic ideology.

Death to all nations. May no nations exist in the future.

(If you get to spew your ideological bullshit I get to spew my own deeply held
and utterly impractical ideological bullshit believes. No, seriously, I want
nations to not exist eventually. I think the world would be vastly better
without them.)

~~~
noarchy
I'm curious if, as an alternative, you'd rather see decentralization (smaller
population units), some kind of global superstate, or something else entirely?

We've all seen the poisons of nationalism, but I wonder if what one might call
"tribalist" tendencies are so easy to vanquish - assuming one even wants to.

------
napoleoncomplex
The most exciting part is the following:

"The close-up image was taken about 1.5 hours before New Horizons closest
approach to Pluto, when the craft was 47,800 miles (77,000 kilometers) from
the surface of the planet. The image easily resolves structures smaller than a
mile across."

At its closest, the probe was 7,800 miles away, so we're going to get images
way clearer than this in the following days, and even this is amazing to look
at.

~~~
draugadrotten
It will take approx 16 months to transfer all the pictures it took, because it
is transmitting at only 1 kbit/second.

[http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/0130080...](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/01300800-talking-to-pluto-is-
hard.html?referrer=https://www.google.se/)

~~~
brock_r
Your linked article says 2 weeks, not 16 months.

11 photos a day.

~~~
rootbear
I don't know why that article quotes two weeks. I've read the 16 months figure
in several places and it was mentioned in the press briefings yesterday. There
might be a specific subset of data that will take two weeks to get. Perhaps
the low-res JPGs of all of the planet imagery.

~~~
UberMouse
I think it's 16 months to transfer every piece of sensor and imaging data
back. The article says it takes ~40 minutes to transfer back a losslessly
compressed full resolution image from the LORRI scanner

~~~
firebones
Anyone got info on the software/hardware specs and how they approach
prioritizing and storage management? We waited a long time for the Apollo code
to make it to Github--what better way to rope in the interest of one segment
of humanity than getting more eyes on the code?

I imagine that there wasn't time or power to do patches...but if there was,
even the mechanics of that would be fascinating.

Has anyone ran across a good discussion around the computational aspects of
New Horizons?

~~~
Dylan16807
[http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/0624055...](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/06240556-what-to-expect-new-horizons-pluto.html)

[http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/0130080...](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/01300800-talking-to-pluto-is-hard.html)

Some basic info on communication. The wikipedia page has a lot of info.

The most important parts are that it has a redundant pair of 8GB flash drives
and they actually upgraded the code in-flight to use both transmitters at once
and nearly double the data rate.

I'm not sure how priorities are arranged but it's all going to be sent back
relatively quickly in terms of mission lifetime, and I think they managed
storage use mostly by putting in plenty.

~~~
hga
_they actually upgraded the code in-flight to use both transmitters at once
and nearly double the data rate_

It was anticipated this would be possible, depending on how the energy budget
for the whole craft worked out.

------
mholt
Direct link to image gallery:
[http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/newhorizons/images/index.h...](http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/newhorizons/images/index.html)

~~~
sneak
Considering the context (the significance of this event to the entirety of
humanity), is this sort of nationalism gross to anyone other than me?

[http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/newhorizons/images/index.h...](http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/newhorizons/images/index.html?id=366579)

~~~
hackuser
Yes; we could be a little more inclusive and magnanimous; it's an achievement
for humanity (or does the U.S. get Pluto now?). I tend to suspect everything
we see from NASA is choreographed; this might sell funding to part of NASA's
tax base.

~~~
happyscrappy
Europe is larger than the US and should be able to compete but can't for some
reason.

------
ommunist
What is even more interesting, the artist Don Dixon more or less accurately
predicted how Pluto looks like in 1979.

~~~
chasing
Well, his painting shares some superficial features that look similar to that
one photo. Like a similar overall shading from light to dark. Other photos of
Pluto look nothing like Dixon's painting. The "Pluto with a Heart" pic, for
example.

Dixon's painting is cool, but let's not make it something it's not.

~~~
T-hawk
Let's also remember the fallacy of multiple endpoints. Many artists have
rendered visual guesses at what Pluto might look like. And many will be
totally wrong. We're cherry-picking the best example in Dixon, not a typical
one.

~~~
firebones
Great point (love the fallacy of multiple endpoints).

But there also may be some "algorithmic" smarts here in terms of Dixon's
interpolation/extrapolation of what cold planetary bodies look like, even with
what was known in 1979. Think of an image-generator bot that took some
parameters of what was known (distance from Sun, whether it was a gas planet,
atmospheric conditions, position relative to the asteroid belt, how size
affects features) and kicked out plausible planets. This might be close to
what you'd come up with if you made the mistake of forecasting more meteoric
impact than actually occurred.

------
etrautmann
The estimate that this area is very new based on the fact that there are no
meteor craters assumes that we know the distribution of meteors and space
debris in the outer solar system. Does anyone know if we do in fact know this?

It seems plausible that there would be far fewer things at that distance, so
the frequency of collisions would be lower.

~~~
ojbyrne
I believe that NASA expected lots of craters on Pluto due to its close
proximity to the Kuiper Belt, which is full of asteroids and other small
objects.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_belt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_belt)

~~~
3JPLW
Full is quite relative. The Kuiper belt encompasses a ridiculously large
volume of space.

~~~
drewolbrich
Similarly, the asteroid belt is "full of asteroids" that are mostly only a few
meters across, with an average distance between each asteroid of a few million
kilometers.

------
r721
Emily Lakdawalla's commentary:

[http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/0715172...](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/07151720-first-look-at-new-horizons-pluto-charon.html)

------
discardorama
I don't use "mind blown" too often, but I will in this case. Here I am,
sitting on my ass munching on a snack, admiring the mountains of a planet 3
_Billion_ miles away. This is so amazing.

~~~
ryanmcbride
*dwarf planet

~~~
kinghajj

      class Planet {}
      class DwarfPlanet : Planet {}
      // ...
      var pluto = new DwarfPlanet();
      Console.WriteLine(pluto is Planet);

------
lifeisstillgood
[https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/pl...](https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/pluto-
observations-through-the-years.gif)

This is a time-lapse series of images of Pluto over the years - from a couple
of pixels to today's mountain ranges. In about three seconds you get a full,
visual, easy to read justification and explanation for the whole space budget
and science funding - it is awesome.

This is what we want to see - go NASA

------
dfar1
I am always amazed at how far we've come. I wish I could live 100 years more.

~~~
rootbear
I completely agree. I keep saying that nothing interesting happens in less
than 10,000 years. Or a million. Compared to the Universe, human lifetimes are
instantaneous. Such a pity.

------
jessaustin
Next century's hottest snowboarding destination...

~~~
yuchi
I’m very sorry to inform you that at those temperatures you’d be frozen to
death. But even once you came out with some cool (hot?) solution for this
nicety, you still couldn’t ski/snowboard. That’s because the snow on earth is
relatively close to 0°C, and therefore in that particular stage where ice is
lighter (it has more volume) than liquid water. If you apply pressure to it
it’s easier for the ice to go back to the liquid state and therefore giving
you the ability to ski.

At those temperatures it would be as snowboarding on sand. Which is a very
loved sport, but not that easy.

~~~
cgriswald
The sandiness of the snow might not be much an issue in Pluto's low gravity.
It would be a bit like skiing on tiny marbles, but with lots of time to
recover your balance. He won't be setting any landspeed records, though.

The real problem is getting there and back in time for the end of your two
week vacation.

~~~
yuchi
Didn’t thought of it!

Let’s solve that timing issue!

------
DIVx0
I did not really know what to expect but these photos are amazing and they're
not even from the nearest approach!

Who knew the surface would be so crater free?

------
zw123456
I have seen a number of articles about the lack of craters and the assumption
that this means recent geological activity. But that would assume a similar
craterization rate to that of the inner planets like Mars and our Moon. I am
wondering, is it possible that due to it's orbit, distance and smaller size
that the rate is just a lot slower?

whatever, It is just a mind boggling accomplishment, and the photos really are
incredible.

------
andrewstuart2
Also a cool shot of Hydra, for the first time showing its shape.

[https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/hydra-emerges-from-the-
sh...](https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/hydra-emerges-from-the-shadows)

------
erobbins
It's very surprising to me how much (apparent) recent geologic activity there
is on both pluto and charon. I had expected them to be much more mercury like.

Pluto was my favorite planet growing up. I never dreamed I'd get to see it up
close.

------
angst_ridden
I can't help it. I tear up and I get all emotional every time I see NASA
pictures of a new planetary surface.

To think a bunch of apes can look at and appreciate mountains 6 billion
kilometers away... it's awe inspiring!

------
ape4
Nobody has seen those mountains before!

------
jmadsen
I can understand why people like my wife look at these pictures and say, "Meh.
That's nice."

The enormity of the distances and what humanity has done is, quite honestly,
beyond what our minds are actually capable of fully comprehending.

I'll re-post this for your weekend enjoyment:

[http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.h...](http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html)

------
ohitsdom
Amazing. Crater-less mountains, and we have no idea how they were formed (or
are forming!). Lots of exciting science ahead!

------
Schiphol
Having to come up with scientific lessons on the spot ("this may cause us to
rethink..."), for the sake of press releases must be pretty stressful. I'm
also not sure that such more-or-less impromptu analyses foster the right
conception of how science works.

~~~
hga
Well, per Emily Lakdawalla's blog quoting scientist Amy Barr
([http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/0715172...](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2015/07151720-first-look-at-new-horizons-pluto-charon.html)):

 _Every time we have looked at a body that has experienced tidal heating, such
as Io, Europa, Enceladus, we find that the body has been more active, or is
putting out 10 to 100 times the amount of heat predicted by models.

Enceladus taught us that our models of tidal heating for icy bodies were not
right, and I think the Pluto/Charon system could be telling us something
similar._

And it's not like these people weren't already reviewing the current state of
the art in anticipation of how these Pluto images might add to it.

------
mrfusion
How do they measure altitude of the mountains without a sea level?

~~~
cgriswald
It's based on the mean surface level rather than the mean sea level.

------
yati
This made me wonder, how do they measure the heights of the mountains? Using
data from multiple view angles?

------
elorant
Why are most of the pics black and white?

~~~
runj__
The camera is monochrome, another sensor gets "color" information. I think
even the black and white images are not really "true" images since the sun is
really really really far away (not totally sure about that though).

EDIT: LORRIs images are true, Pluto is actually pretty bright (the sun is
amazing) and the camera is great (science is a amazing).

~~~
danielweber
On Pluto, the Sun is 250x more bright than the moon is on Earth. And moonlight
(at a full moon) is pretty sufficient for most things you do with your eyes.

[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/03/15/ba...](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/03/15/bafact-
math-how-bright-is-the-sun-from-pluto/#.VabNGcZVhBc)

~~~
Someone
That's because the human eye works across an amazing range of light
intensities.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_(eye)#Efficiency](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_\(eye\)#Efficiency):

 _" The human eye can function from very dark to very bright levels of light;
its sensing capabilities reach across nine orders of magnitude. This means
that the brightest and the darkest light signal that the eye can sense are a
factor of roughly 1,000,000,000 apart. However, in any given moment of time,
the eye can only sense a contrast ratio of one thousand. What enables the
wider reach is that the eye adapts its definition of what is black."_

Pluto is 30-50 AUs from the sun, so ignoring the effects of any atmosphere,
there's "only" a factor of 900-2500 more sunlight on Earth than on Pluto (sun
vs full moon is 400,000:1 or thereabouts)

------
dang
Url changed from [http://www.bbc.com/news/science-
environment-33543383](http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33543383),
which is a fine article that adds some info, but perhaps not enough to
override the preference for original sources.

~~~
pwenzel
Thanks. The audio piece by John Spencer in this article is well worth
listening to.

