

Inside the favela too violent for Rio’s armed police - Thevet
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/03/guns-drugs-teen-gangsters-rio-favela-police

======
theiostream
Brazil is a country where the correctional systems runs with 200.000 people
over capacity and has had a 100-page UN report condemning practices which deny
basic human rights, yet prison riots are treated by media simply as gang plots
with no particular reason; Captain Nascimento, the protagonist of the "Elite
Squad" films (who methodically kills/tortures drug traffickers) is regarded
almost always as a hero instead of an aspect of the police to be criticized.

Particularly in the elections that happened last year, proposals to "end
impunity" (as lowering the age for being treated as an adult in court) have
had largely more electoral effect and have been widely more propagated than
projects for improving rehabilitation capability or respecting human rights in
prisons. In fact, it's common to hear the maxim "Human rights for right people
[and not for criminals]" around here to disqualify proposals of the latter.

Thanks to this public opinion trend, stories like those in the article about
people who are able to "get out" instead of being arrested or killed are
largely ignored. (Seeing them on Hacker News is easier than on the daily
newspaper or even than on left-wing blogs which hardly have journalism
potential to get a story like this.) It's nice to see them.

~~~
flueedo
There's a propagated distortion regarding the meaning of human rights here in
Brazil, it seems to me. There's this idea that human rights is synonym with
being soft on crime, not actually punishing wrongdoings, treating criminals
better than honest working folk. So, understandably, a lot of people start
seeing "human rights" as part of the problem.

Crime can be solved in two ways, one of them is through the kind of policies
you've mentioned. The other -- which may only work with crime committed or
allegedly committed by the poor -- is by widespread oppression and institution
of elements of a police state (the drawbacks are many as you can imagine).
Brazil currently does not have the infrastructure to follow the former so it
seems to be courting the latter; It doesn't seem to be in the best interest of
politicians to work towards the better option. Possibly, who knows, because it
would be the harder and riskier approach regarding whether it could bring them
immediate votes and popularity.

------
Giulalbez
I grew up in a favela of Rio [1] , it is a small one, but, because of its
strategical position, fiercely disputed by the 2 major organizations,
therefore constantly at war. There is so much going on there, that one could
write entire papers about it. More than 90% of the people living there are
good struggling working people, suffering not only the harm from the police
and the gangs, but also from a mix of social and racial discrimination from
the upper classes and from the legal system. There is no fast solution, as the
mitigation of poverty is a slow process, and is the only way out. Reform of
the Police and legalization of cannabis would help though, but only the
elimination of the extreme inequality will bring a definitive change. Brazil
is on the way, things have improved a little in those last years. [1]
[https://www.google.com.br/search?q=morro+da+coroa&tbm=isch&t...](https://www.google.com.br/search?q=morro+da+coroa&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_PWpVN2ZCYSkNpPvgcgG&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1364&bih=591)

------
vincentbarr
The headline is a bit misleading. Less than 6% of favelas are occupied by
police. Specifically, only ~40 of the 750+ favelas in Rio were selected to
receive 'Pacifying Police Units' (UPPs).

The UPP project began in 2008 and - from my conversations with several people
living in favelas - was part of a larger effort to improve living conditions,
which it has to an extent; some favelas now have basic sewage systems, for
example. However, the police presence was seen as ineffective and the project
disingenuous in that it was inspired by the desire to make Rio a stronger
attraction to tourists during the World Cup rather than by the concern for the
welfare of people living in favelas.

Additionally, the relationship between law enforcement and residents was also
quite crooked. The Guardian reports that "80% of Brazilians are afraid of
being tortured by their own police force," but the study was conducted by
Amnesty International.
[http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/brazil-...](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/brazil-
favelas-big-trouble-world-cup-marketing-police-abuse-killings-security)

Last, I can't imagine policing in favelas to be an easy job. When I visited a
pacified favela, the police unit walls were lined (50+) with large bullet
holes.

~~~
Giulalbez
> but the study was conducted by Amnesty International. Why the "but" in that
> sentence? I would say 99% of people in the favela I grew up are afraid of
> the police at some degree, and would prefer to meet an armed gangster in a
> dark alley to meet a group of policeman, for sure! > I can't imagine
> policing in favelas to be an easy job The police is unequipped,
> undertrained, underpaid and badly managed. Most of the military policeman
> are from the lower classes too, therefore lacking a good education since
> childhood. Is hard. Sometimes they bring the Army with heavy weaponry and
> occupy the place for a while, but this is not a long-term solution.

~~~
vincentbarr
I used 'but' to call attention to the group conducting the research as I feel
that's important for context and full disclosure when referencing a study. My
intention was not to discredit the research or Amnesty International.

------
ddorian43
... everyone should watch 2 "Elite Squad" movies done on the police that goes
inside the favela BOPE (they have skulls as emblems).

~~~
civilian
Skulls as emblems... yeah, they occur on uniforms throughout history. There's
some discussion to be had about whether the good guys would have skulls on
their uniforms:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImnpErdDzA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImnpErdDzA)

~~~
Giulalbez
At least in Brazil , it doesn't bring a good feeling, because of "Scuderie
Detetive Le Cocq"[1] , a secret killing organization formed by policeman,
commonly referred as "Death Squads". They kill poor people for fun. Their
emblem was a skull. [1]
[http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderie_Detetive_Le_Cocq](http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderie_Detetive_Le_Cocq)

------
lohengramm
Violence in Brazil is an extensive topic. When you live in the country and
actually follow the rules it becomes hard to pick a side: pacification by
violence or by peace itself? The country has come to such a point where it is
hard to believe that it is even possible to solve the problem.

It is also notable that Rio is just the marketing side of the country. The
violence and misery in the northeast region is even worse, but it is not so
much published.

Even São Paulo, which is the economic engine of the whole country, has such a
contrast between rich and poor, and the "favela culture" is so spread, that it
makes me want to leave this place and never come back.

~~~
IndianAstronaut
This seems to be a common middle income nation problem. A country gets
somewhat wealthy but huge inequalities exist still and crime is harder to
tackle. Mexico is going through it. China and India are on track to becoming
violent and crime ridden.

------
lohengramm
It is almost 3:00 AM here and I woke up with two guys trying to break in my
house. Instantly remembered this thread.

------
blazespin
This is the result of automation and AI. These people are economically
irrelevant. We need to alter our economy to be entirely based on education and
enlightenment.

~~~
diego_moita
This is either empty rhetoric or trolling. Favelas existed long before
electronic computers were invented. Actually, in Brazil, a lot of people came
out of poverty in the last 20 years, in spite of increases in automation and
productivity.

