
Apple's Touch Bar Could Be a Flop - walterbell
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/04/06/apples-touch-bar-could-be-a-flop.aspx
======
rayiner
Notice that there is no data presented for the "flop" assertion, merely
anecdote. Last quarter, Apple reversed four quarters of declining Mac sales,
increasing units shipped slightly despite substantially increasing the price
of Macbook Pros: [http://www.computerworld.com/article/3164132/apple-
mac/mac-e...](http://www.computerworld.com/article/3164132/apple-mac/mac-ends-
sales-slump-with-record-revenue-of-7-2b.html).

~~~
kylec
A few days ago John Gruber linked to a Twitter poll where like/dislike for the
Touch Bar was split 50/50:

[http://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-
tou...](http://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-touch-bar)

If half your userbase likes something, you can't really call it a flop. But
I'd argue you can't really call it a success if half your userbase dislikes it
either.

While it's not really an Apple thing to do, the results of this poll suggest
to me that Apple should make the Touch Bar an option, and not something you
are required to get if you want a high-end laptop.

~~~
gozur88
A lot of the customer base is going to be relatively set in its ways - they
won't like _anything_ that changes the way the interact with their mac unless
it's a bona fide home run. I would consider 50% a pretty good number and
expect it to rise over time.

~~~
teaneedz
Disagree. I'm avoiding the Touch Bar for the same reasons that this article
mentions. I'm sure the media and artist group might like it, but touch typists
and devs in general don't. The regular feedback I encounter is very meh to
bleh on the TB.

------
jernfrost
I like the touchbar but it isn't make or break for me. At this point maybe
Apple should focus more on practical issues rather than "innovating". People
often want rather simple improvements like card readers more USB ports, easier
change of batteries, memory, hardisk etc. And for us on a Mac Pro, we really
just want a regular box with some flexibility in what you put in.

Also I wish Apple continued making displays.

In general companies shouldn't be so desperate to innovate just for the sake
of innovating. They should come with new stuff when it is really worth it. In
the meantime better to do the "boring" stuff: make software more stable, add
less glorius but desired features, upgradability, performance improvements.

Top of my list of wishes are: 1) Modern filesystem. 2) Getting the old Spaces
from Snowleopard back. I could not care less about mission control. 3) Replace
Applescript with something with sane syntax. What Applescript can do is super
cool, but despite knowing over a dozen languages, AppleScript just weirds me
out. So despite being a professional programmer I don't get to enjoy the
possibilities it offers. Just give it some Swift looking syntax (probably
without static typing). 4) A radically improved Siri. Something much smarter
which can assist me in more daily stuff. Probably what we want is some sort of
AI assistant platform or infrastructure so people can offer more specialized
services. E.g. I'd like some smart agent which could help with writing code or
editing video.

~~~
ttepasse
For Number 3:

Since two releases there is Javascript as an alternative AppleScript:
[https://developer.apple.com/library/content/releasenotes/Int...](https://developer.apple.com/library/content/releasenotes/InterapplicationCommunication/RN-
JavaScriptForAutomation/Articles/OSX10-10.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40014508-CH109-SW1)

There is one gotcha - filtering of Applescript objects is not done natively
but with a custom fluent interface and some query syntax but in its whole it's
pretty much JS.

------
ArlenBales
I've owned a MacBook Pro 2016 for about 4 months now and here is my touch bar
utilization:

70% Escape key

20% Audio slider

10% Brightness slider

I use Final Cut Pro X a lot too, but its touch bar enhancements are
inefficient compared to just using your mouse or hot keys, so I never use
them.

Yes, touch bar is a flop (to me). Otherwise, I absolutely love my MacBook Pro.

~~~
heavymark
My thoughts precisely. TouchID is neat, but it's a little slow compared to an
iPhone home unlocking, and most days rarely need to use it at all since I'm
wearing an apple watch that automatically unlocks the mac anyway.

~~~
ArlenBales
My utilization didn't factor in TouchID, since it's technically not part of
the touch bar OLED and is separate.

I do like TouchID and use it for log in.

------
carsongross
I regret buying mine with the touch bar.

I think that the touchpad is a more natural place for a dynamic, modal touch
experience. It is about the same size as an iPhone as well.

I also really dislike how the touch id button is also the power button (which,
sadly, I have to use due to frequent UI freakouts) but there is no visual
indication that this is the case. I only discovered it by muscle memory from
my older macs.

~~~
cttet
But you have extra USB ports..

------
lucidlive
Not to mention how they removed MagSafe which is possibly one of the best
Apple inventions.

~~~
kevhsu
OTOH, you can now use a standard charger that is shared with increasingly many
new devices. How many people are actually knocking laptops off tables because
of the power cord?

~~~
jessriedel
> How many people are actually knocking laptops off tables because of the
> power cord?

I would say I did this at least twice a month.

~~~
posguy
Does the USB C cable not disconnect? From the ones that I've played with, it
seems fine. The force required to disconnect USB C cables from a port is less
than Magsafe, and the results are the same.

Also, remember Apple designed USB C, with half the engineering talent that
worked on the standard coming from Cupertino. They've specifically thought all
these use cases and issues through, to build a solid connector for the next
decade.

~~~
crazygringo
If you pull it out straight? Of course it's fine.

If you accidentally yank it up or down? It's like it's glued in there. 45°
angle? Also glued in there.

MagSafe, the whole point was it didn't matter what angle it was pulled, it
would separate easily and with no damage.

------
cicero19
I purchased the new 13" MBP with touchbar when it came out. As my first Apple
laptop, I have to say it has changed my life and the way I use other devices.

I will admit the touchbar is a tad gimmicky. There are a few things I would
change and I am waiting on many apps to upgrade to include some touchbar
functionality (chrome canary currently supports touchbar contextual buttons).
One thing that is kind of annoying about it is the Siri button - I’ve
accidently clicked it more than meaningfully. This being said, I don’t regret
the upgrade over the traditional model and I would recommend it. I think the
argument of having to look down at the keyboard is a bit ridiculous.

The dongle situation is not even really an issue either. I bought two USB 3 ->
C adapters and keep one at home and one in my bag. I can count on one hand how
many times I’ve used them. I do think Apple could have AT LEAST included one
of these with the purchase. The Apple TV airplay integration is so good you
can stream action movies without lag, obviating the need for an HDMI or other
video output. For the smaller and lighter profile, this tradeoff is justified.

Battery life is pretty good. It could be better but I can go a day of heavy
use with two charges (ie. charging mid-day).

The large trackpad and force touch is a joy to use and the keyboard is
remarkably clicky despite its low-profile. All in all, its a great machine and
the additional functionality will come as apps slowly upgrade to support the
touchbar.

------
largehotcoffee
Reposting my comment from 160 days ago!

\--

I honestly hope the Touch Bar doesn't survive longer than one generation of
MacBooks. I believe the whole thing is a gimmick (a well intentioned gimmick)
meant to drive forward one thing, Apple Pay on the MacBook. Most likely it's
internally perceived as a situation where the end justifies the means, if
Apple Pay is widely adopted on the MacBook this will look like a genius
decision down the line and make a ridiculous amount of money in the long-term.
If not, blame the Touch Bar.

Apple should have done a full touch input screen on the MacBook. It might not
have been perfect, but it would have been lauded as revolutionary by the
mainstream media. By not doing it they have now given their competitors the
chance to grab that market.

When Apple does eventually make a full touch input screen MacBook, Apple Pay
will be a part of it. The Touch Bar is just a stepping stone to get to that
point, but it's a step they should have skipped.

~~~
jbob2000
What? Revolutionary? There are a number of other laptops that have touch
screens...

------
shroom
Touch Bar Meh... I would agree its a flop for an Apple innovation. I've had
the new MBP for three months and i could count the times ive used it on my
fingers..

Touch ID is nice but its like a button next to the touchbar so i dont really
count that.

Was a bit worried that id miss the esc key but its works ok on the Touch Bar.
Else i just use it to adjust the sound. But its too damn sensitive its enough
if one cell of your finger touches it to toggle something...

Other than that I feel the overall quality of MBP is way lower then it used to
be.

Never ever had Any issues with my previous 2011 and 2013 mpb but the new one
bugs and acts weird in all kinds of ways (freezing, sounds stops working etc)
and needs Restart every few days. Feels a bit sloppy and rushed for an Apple
product.

Love the design though...:-/

~~~
frikk
Hi shroom -- curious why you capitalize both letters in "it"?

~~~
shroom
I wrote on my iPhone with swedish auto-complete so it likes IT as Information
Technology.

*I edited it now :)

~~~
stuaxo
On my HTC it capitalises Of The ... I have no idea why, I can't see why anyone
would want that.

------
heavymark
Completely agree. Having too look to use it makes it not very pleasant to
touch vs a responsive key. While it's a neat feature for the day doesn't seem
to help with productivity since I can do anything quickly already blindly with
the keyboard. If the next MBP I buy has a version without (but top of the line
in all other respects I'd opt for one without the touchbar. I'm often using
that space to adjust the sound or sometimes manually the brightness and that
always becomes a conscious chore with the touchbar.

I like many are sticking with it hoping someone will find a user for it that
makes it a killer feature even if niche.

------
notadoc
I specifically bought a 2015 refurb pro instead of the touch bar model, I have
negative interest in the touch bar. Who wants more friction in their deeply
ingrained workflow? Why do I want to start looking at keys again? No thanks.

~~~
pier25
Same here. I bought a 2015 model.

[https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-
fad...](https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fadf27ab4b)

------
milesf
It's not the addition of the touch bar I don't like. It's the removal of the
magsafe and forced "dongle-spaghetti" I need to use the USB Type-C.

~~~
randyrand
I keep a keychain usb-c to usb-a adapter on me. I've only used it once in the
past 6 months.

It's not as big of a deal as I thought it would be.

------
fernly
This article seems to conflate the recent Mac Pro teaser announcement, with
the low acceptance of the Mac _BOOK_ Pro. They are two entirely different
products with different histories and different problems. Then there's a quote
that makes an obscure reference to "problems surrounding the LG UltraFine 5K
display", which could be used with either machine.

------
angryasian
I personally hate the touchbar. I always have a keyboard hooked up to my mbp
so I use it rarely to begin with. When I do use it, its primarily to adjust
the volume. The fact that the layout changes and I can no longer really use
muscle memory to do certain things makes it a pain for me to use.

~~~
stcredzero
_The fact that the layout changes and I can no longer really use muscle memory
to do certain things makes it a pain for me to use._

It seems like a complete contradiction to the philosophy driving UX design on
the Macbook prior to the touchbar. The trackpad gestures and the switch to 2
finger scrolling to make it the same as multitouch on tablets -- these are
both muscle-memory friendly decisions. The touchbar goes against this!

------
randyrand
I bought the touchbarless model even though I would of rather had the more
powerful machine.

I like the physical buttons more.

------
antoaravinth
I had recently purchased Pro with touch bar. The only downside to touch bar is
that, you won't get the feel of pressing a key. For example if you want to
save a file in vim, you have to press ESC which at times leave you in doubt
whether you pressed or not.

But touchbar id is great.

------
Pica_soO
They should have gone all the way- and revolutionize the whole laptop-keyboard
away, with an additional touch screen, with synthetic haptic keys on demand
and a background illuminated e-ink display.

Add a GUI designed just for this to the whole Setup, and let it be executed by
Perfectionists like apples- and they would rule the HW-Valley till kingdom
come.

Haptic Display by Bosch:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCqlYKRlAA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCqlYKRlAA)

10C-Gui:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWz1KbknIZk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWz1KbknIZk)

If anyone could get this done - its apple.

~~~
Pica_soO
Makes you wish you could sacrifice points to get a topic discussed- Sigh

------
helthanatos
My only gripe with the touchbar is that it replaced the function key row
instead of going above it; other than that, I very much like the oled
touchbar.

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warrenmiller
Considering it's the fastest selling MacbookPro ever I'm not sure this article
makes sense.

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hartator
The touch bar is a flop. You don't have a tMBp if you are writing this
headline.

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lazzlazzlazz
I'm shocked.

