
Bootstrap 4 Beta 2 - anorborg
https://blog.getbootstrap.com/2017/10/19/bootstrap-4-beta-2/
======
andygcook
I've been using the Bootstrap 4 beta for a couple weeks building a side
project ([https://nanagram.co](https://nanagram.co)) and I must say, it's been
great to use. The built in utilities for responsive views and spacing are
especially useful. Made optimizing the homepage for multiple screen sizes
super fast and not painful at all. The Beta 1 had pretty good documentation
and seemed pretty mature as well. Looking forward to upgrading to the Beta 2.

~~~
mattsidesinger
I signed up for your service. Do you have any competitors in this space? I
thought the experience overall was very simple. Are you thinking about adding
options for the prints? For example, glossy v. matte or 4x6 v 5x7?

Edit: I see you replied to someone else and I cannot tell if the service is
actually live (as in my card is going to be charged and photos are going to
ship).

~~~
andygcook
It’s live, and thanks for signing up! The photos you text in will ship in a
month from now.

We’re definitly going to add other options in time. Right now we’re trying to
get the MVP right with 4x6 glossy prints.

There’s a few other services that let you send postcards (expensive) or use
apps to let you grab pictures from your phone. The apps tend to have more
friction than just sending an MMS and to my knowledge, we’re the only ones
that let you add the captions for context for your grandparent.

Would love feedback as you use it more. We’re pretth fast at building stuff
and love hearing ideas from our customers.

~~~
mattsidesinger
Another option that would be good would be to allow to crop. I know I sent
some photos in that are not 4:3 so I'm curious to know how they will print.
I'm assuming they will be centered by whichever print to ship service, but
others that may not understand what's happening here might have some heads
chopped off in a printed picture.

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myf01d
I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build
you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning
your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

~~~
pcwalton
For the projects Bootstrap was designed for, the choice isn't between
Bootstrap and a professionally designed custom theme; the choice is between
Bootstrap and a white background with all text in Times New Roman 16 pt.

~~~
PunchTornado
I wonder why people don't get this. It's not like you're doing a Fortune 500
company's website with Bootstrap.

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brianwawok
I bet we can find 50 uses of bootstrap in the f500.

~~~
Mtinie
At least. I’ve seen lots and lots of internal tools, product admin dashboards,
and the occasional single-page product marketing sites, like the one the
overworked intern, Todd, threw together in the 24 hours between the time the
virtually-without-requirements demand was dropped on his tiny, cramped, mid-
bullpen loaner desk and when he launched it into production to zero thanks.

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czep
Is modular css changing bootstrap adoption? I'm a backend guy so I don't have
much experience to develop a sense of large-scale front-end trends. I've used
bootstrap since early v3 in various places and usually found it time-saving,
easy to build responsively, and fairly easy to customize.

However, just as frameworks like angular and libraries like react are
"componentizing" the front end and replacing general purpose utilities like
jQuery, will we see a similar trend with modular css where component styles
will replace the need for large css frameworks like bootstrap? Or is modular
css merely a complement to whatever sitewide css framework you've chosen?

~~~
chuckdries
Taking advantage of what bootstrap has to offer requires writing your page
structure with it in mind. It's both a method of structuring HTML and a CSS
framework. I suppose you could pull out and compartmentalize certain specific
features, but in my mind the core of bootstrap is the grid and component
system, and those are pretty heavily tied together.

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neovive
It's an interesting time for web development in general. As the industry moves
towards standardized web components, CSS frameworks--like Bootstrap,
Foundation, Bulma, etc.--will fit differently into the puzzle. The demand for
CSS frameworks will persist, but more of the implementation details will be
abstracted away within components.

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mmcnl
Happy to see Bootstrap 4 moving to a final release. Beta 1 is already very
mature though. I love it.

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yourkin
Bootstrap 4 is great and a pleasure to work with. Documentation structure on
the other hand... Main nav section on the left with subsections on the right
is totally counter-intuitive.

~~~
petepete
Plus occasionally (at least in the earlier days of beta 1) you'd Google
something and end up in the Alpha 3 docs without necessarily realising.

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desireco42
I honestly believed this to be released already. Completely surprised by this
:).

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lewisl9029
Congrats on shipping the 2nd Beta!

My favorite part of Bootstrap 4 is actually its newly included CSS reset
Reboot [0]. It's built on Normalize, but also provides a set of very
compelling improvements like making use of the native font stack, a bunch of
very sensible spacing and layout adjustments, and built-in optimizations for
touch responsiveness (removing the 300ms delay). I'm definitely going to be
trying it out on my next project regardless of whether or not it uses
Bootstrap itself.

With that said, I don't mean to rain on the parade, but I've been gradually
deviating away from using CSS frameworks for my projects, not because I don't
_want_ to use them, but rather because most CSS frameworks don't seem to mix
naturally with component-oriented CSS-in-JS libraries like glamorous [1],
which is my preferred way to work with styling these days.

If I do include a CSS framework, I end up having to use a mix of custom
component-scoped styles and global CSS classes from these frameworks, and
those CSS classes may have margins and cascading effects that reach into
children. This breaks component-level style isolation, and makes the styling
of children much harder to reason about, which defeats much of the purpose of
using component-oriented CSS to begin with.

What I really want to do is to import styles from a well designed CSS
framework _as a JS module_ (but I'm willing to accept anything that's properly
namespaced and isolated, like CSS Modules), and compose them with my own
styles without worrying about a polluted global namespace or styles from
parents reaching into children/vice versa or fighting with specificity issues.

So far, I haven't found any CSS frameworks that fit the bill, but Tachyons [2]
seems like it could be close enough (by emphasizing modular, low specificity,
shallowly cascading styles) that I could maybe just run it through a CSS to JS
compiler like native-css [3] and import its classes and compose them as I
would with any other JS style object. This is something I'm going to
experiment with soon enough, but I'd love to hear if others have any
thoughts/experiences they'd like to share on using CSS frameworks with
component-oriented CSS.

[0]
[https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.0/content/reboot/](https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.0/content/reboot/)

[1] [https://glamorous.rocks/](https://glamorous.rocks/)

[2] [http://tachyons.io/](http://tachyons.io/)

[3] [https://github.com/raphamorim/native-
css](https://github.com/raphamorim/native-css)

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Scarbutt
What they didn't default to Grids and provide a fallback? the grid system
examples in their docs are scary.

~~~
kevindqc
What is scary about it?

~~~
Scarbutt
The div hell.

~~~
joshmanders

        <div class="row">
          <div class="col">left sidebar</div>
          <div class="col">content area</div>
          <div class="col">right sidebar</div>
        </div>
    

This is div hell to you? O_o

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manigandham
[http://tachyons.io/](http://tachyons.io/) \+ Bootstrap make a great combo.
Especially if using a build system like webpack.

Bootstrap has a nice grid system (although the actual CSS standard is amazing
now) and handles basic elements like buttons well. For everything else,
Tachyon's component helpers make layouts really easy and fast.

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azr79
Nobody cares anymore, everybody moved on to bulma and other things, bootstrap
is yesterday's song

~~~
SippinLean
Bulma is very far behind.

* Lacks all the JS components

* Lifts from Bootstrap for most of the CSS components, sometimes down to the class name

* Makes the mistakes of early Bootstrap, namely heavily nested classes like .card .media:not(:last-child) that are difficult to overwrite and cause great pain when customizing

* Uses antiquated non-extensible syntax/naming conventions for breakpoints, such as "is-desktop" instead of "small, medium, large" etc

* grid system is not flexible, breakpoints are hardcoded and there's no easy way to generate your own grid

* no mixins I can use in Sass instead of using classes in HTML. There are a few helpers but no way to setup columns without HTML classes (like you can in Bootstrap)

* overall lack of easy customization, no theming tool and very limited variables. in BS almost everything can be customized using Sass variables

It simply isn't as mature or battle-tested as Bootstrap. There's a reason it's
not 1.0 yet. BS can do everything Bulma can, the reverse is not true.

~~~
Can_Not
Coming from BS3+jQuery, BS3/4 was confusing or obtuse to use the jQuery
dependent parts with VueJS (modal being a good example). Most BS+VueJS
libraries were incomplete or broken somewhere in the VueJS 1 => 2 shuffle.
Bulma was not confusing, it's JS agnosticism being the main reason.

~~~
manigandham
Bootstrap can be used with just the CSS and none of the JS components,
although Vue also makes it easy to encapsulate jquery into components. [1]

Tachyons [2] is another CSS framework that basically takes the component
approach to the extreme and makes all styles separate, like bootstrap being
made of only utilities.

1\.
[https://vuejs.org/v2/examples/select2.html](https://vuejs.org/v2/examples/select2.html)

2\. [http://tachyons.io/](http://tachyons.io/)

