
Vincent Laforet's iMac Pro Review - uptown
http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2017/12/12/apples-new-imacpro-has-an-impressive-200-300-speed-bump/
======
pavlov
_I’ve seldom seen a jump this dramatic before on any new generation of Macs –
20%-30% speed increases are the norm … NOT 200%-300% increases. That’s
SIGNIFICANT._

Isn’t this simply a consequence of Apple not having any competitive pro
desktop hardware since 2013?

I’m not sure they deserve praise for just catching up.

~~~
avprpl
This. If you are upgrading from the 2013 Mac Pro, this is significant, but
what are the benchmarks against other professional workstations in 2017?

~~~
bhauer
Precisely. Any modern $5,000 workstation is going to have 16+ Xeon cores, 128+
GB of memory, NVMe SSDs, and a high-end nVidia GPU or two.

 _Two years ago_ I purchased a dual Xeon E5 workstation for 32 total HT cores,
along with 128 GB, an Intel NVMe SSD, a GeForce 9-series GPU, and _two_
40-inch 4K 60 Hz displays for ~$5,000. Today's typical $5K workstation would
presumably include an nVidia 10-series Titan and possibly an Optane SSD. And
today you'd probably go with those sweet 43-inch LG 4K monitors that have
matte screens (oh how I miss when matte displays were common).

I mean, I get it. This review is about the fastest official MacOS platform
around. It's not concerned with Hackintoshes and certainly not concerned with
Windows or Linux. That's fair. But this review is also unintentionally about
how outdated the previous-generation Mac hardware is. Catching up to the
present is a big deal, and congratulations to Apple on that, but how about not
falling so far behind the present in the first place?

~~~
rbanffy
On your BOM you should not forget a best-in-class 5K 27" monitor. A 4K TV is
nice, but it's not on the same price range as the iMac's display.

As for the computer, the CPU alone is about US$ 1400. Add PCIe flash storage,
RAM, a US$ 800-1000 GPU and you are quickly matching that US$ 5000 range for a
regular PC running Linux, even before you add a 5K HDR monitor.

~~~
bhauer
> _On your BOM you should not forget a best-in-class 5K 27 " monitor. A 4K TV
> is nice, but it's not on the same price range as the iMac's display._

While I don't begrudge someone who enjoys a small monitor, for me, usable
screen real estate is priority #1. Pixel density is nice, but not at the
expense of usable real estate. So I'll take two (or even one!) 40-inch 4K
monitors running at 100% UI zoom over a small 5K monitor running at 250% UI
zoom.

I'm not sure why you mentioned televisions. The displays I bought in 2015 are
Philips BDM4065UC monitors [1], which clocked in at $700 a piece in 2015.

> _As for the computer, the CPU alone is about US$ 1400. Add PCIe flash
> storage, RAM, a US$ 800-1000 GPU and you are quickly matching that US$ 5000
> range for a regular PC running Linux, even before you add a 5K HDR monitor._

In 2015, I was able to build out a 32 HT core dual Xeon E5v3 with 128 GB of
ECC DDR4, an Intel NVMe SSD, a Samsung SATA SSD, and a 9-series nVidia GPU for
~$3,500. The two 4K monitors brought the grand total very close to $5K.

Today, $5K should get you the same along with some mix of more cores, faster
clock rates, a 10-series nVidia GPU, or possibly even an Optane SSD.

I suspect that small 5K monitor Apple is using is a major cost driver. It's a
shame it's permanently affixed to the computer and not optional.

[1] [https://www.philips.com.au/c-p/BDM4065UC_75/brilliance-
led-b...](https://www.philips.com.au/c-p/BDM4065UC_75/brilliance-led-backlit-
lcd-display)

------
andr
One of the new "features" not mentioned here is that the iMac Pro is no longer
user-serviceable. The screws to open the back are gone, and you can't replace
the RAM and, presumably, the SSD. For a $5000 Pro machine, that's
disappointing.

~~~
dunham
That's disappointing, where did you read this? The images on apple.com show
socketed RAM, which suggests to me that it might be possible to open the unit:

    
    
        https://www.apple.com/v/imac-pro/a/images/overview/storage_large.jpg
    

I was kinda hoping that'd be the case, as it would be a welcome change from my
2012 iMAC, which is glued shut and limping along on a HDD.

~~~
trynewideas
MKBHD via MacWorld: [https://www.macworld.com/article/3242187/macs/imac-pro-
shipp...](https://www.macworld.com/article/3242187/macs/imac-pro-shipping-
december-14-ram.html)

> Brownlee got a chance to play with the new 10-core machine for a week, and
> while he praises the speed, he notes that the iMac Pro isn’t user
> upgradeable. Even the RAM door that is on the back of the 5K iMac is gone,
> which will surely upset power users.

9to5 also reported that back in June, claiming confirmation from Apple.

------
_ph_
The new iMac Pro is certainly a lovely machine. An iMac is a nice desktop
machine, keeping all in a very neat package. The iMac Pro now adds some
serious compute power. Of course, you pay for the slim package by not being
able to freely upgrade components like with a tower pc. However, that does not
explain, why there is no way to get into the machine at all. Getting to the
RAM, the SSD and most importantly, being able to clean the fans should be
possible. But even certified repair shops have to re-glue the screen into the
machine after accessing the internals. This is just plain unacceptable.

------
PhantomGremlin
Sigh. The frame of reference has shifted so much that people no longer care
that the display is so firmly tied to the rest of the computer.

I've got a 2004 vintage 24" Dell monitor that works quite well, 13 years
later.

Not so for my 2006 vintage 20" iMac. The screen is still great, but the
computer is flaky, so overall it's a dead product. Same for my 2007 vintage
24" iMac. Still a great screen, but the computer is well past its prime and
can't run the latest macOS.

What really upsets me is the hypocrisy that nobody cares about. Apple is
always telling us how eco-friendly it is, and yet nobody employed there cares
about this?

Of course, it's business leaders' role to be hypocrites. But what about people
on the so-called "independent" Board of Directors? Director Al Gore wrote
"Earth in the Balance: Ecology and the Human Spirit". And yet he's happy to
take Apple's money and stock while helping them greenwash their company image.

I fucking hate the hypocrisy.

~~~
undersuit
Not that it fixes your issue or dismisses your valid arguments against an AIO,
but iMacs since 2009 started supporting being a display for another device:
[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204592](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT204592)

DARN... I noticed the fine text that the 5k resolution models no longer
support this feature.

------
singularity2001
One question: is silent? Thanks to a 10 metre HDMI cable I put the workstation
computer into the cellar and was shocked how much more I enjoyed sitting in
front of the monitor when there is 0.0 sound. Whatever the Nvidia Titan does
down there doesn't bother me.

~~~
graeme
That's an excellent idea, thank you. I may put my macbook pro in a second room
with a long HDMI cable. Noise has become worse as I've added external hard
drives.

As for the mac pro, they say it's silent, but it's the kind of thing I plan to
test in an apple store running some programs like quicktime screen recording
on full blast before buying.

------
ricardobeat
The iMac Pro sounds awesome, but this reads much more like an advertorial than
I expected.

~~~
stevenh
Are the people who receive these prerelease sample devices from Apple required
to write about them in a positive light?

~~~
izacus
I don't think there's a contract... but it did happen that Apple just didn't
send prerelease sample devices to reviewers who were too critical.

------
rixed
If he value his time so much why hasn't he built a faster PC for himself for
all these years? Is he locked in some sort of North Korea where somehow only
Apple hardware can be obtained?

~~~
valuearb
Because the software that makes him most productive doesn't run on non-Apple
hardware?

~~~
mikeokner
I doubt that's true. Adobe CS has been the top choice for pro media for years
and it runs on Windows at least as well as on Mac.

~~~
mrpippy
Final Cut Pro is Mac-only

~~~
mikeokner
FCPX is a neutered shell of what FCP once was. It works fine for prosumer
YouTuber sorts of things, but it's hardly a reason to cling to macOS.

------
samcat116
I like how Apple got a pretty wide range of different “Pro” use cases for
these early previews. There are scientists, photo/video editors, developers,
and a musician I think.

------
protomyth
Other than the cost because there is no upgrade path, I am a bit worried that
they will have done a bad job at estimating the thermal. Given the iPhone 6
and some of the portables, I am worried that a user won't get the full
performance for long periods of time. I guess I will wait for the eventual Mac
Pro to see what to order next.

~~~
givinguflac
That's not really a reasonable comparison though, those devices are strictly
battery powered and don't have fans. I'm interested to see where this machine
lands too, but I would be really surprised if they didn't consider long
duration workflow performance.

~~~
aeorgnoieang
I'd have been really surprised that you could login to lots and lots of Macs
as `root` with any password too if we all hadn't learned that together
recently.

~~~
valuearb
You had to be able to login to the Mac first, to be able to login to root.

------
valuearb
I'm excited to convince my company to get one, and I'm just going to use it
for compiling Swift apps.

~~~
IncRnd
I use a hackintosh using 2x e5-2680 32 cores and 128gb. It took me $1,100 to
put together. The E5s are v1 but still run great. I don't know of another way
to get a cheap desktop with that much ram.

~~~
phinnaeus
Unfortunately violating the OS X EULA isn't really an option for companies.

~~~
IncRnd
Of course it isn't.

------
simonebrunozzi
I would love to have an all-in-one with a 24" to 30" display, a great graphic
card, and good performance. (Windows based, that is)

Is there any other good option rather than the iMac Pro?

~~~
ChristianGeek
You can configure any Mac to boot into native Windows (and/or Linux and/or
MacOS).

------
bovermyer
If I had $5,000 to spend on a computer, I would absolutely build it myself. It
would probably be powerful enough to gain sentience.

~~~
givinguflac
I'm sure you could build a more powerful tower for $5k, but if you account for
a nice display and mouse/keyboard, and I don't think you could match the iMac
pro cost to power ratio.

~~~
bovermyer
Based on current prices on Newegg, I can build a PC with comparable specs with
a 4K monitor, a mechanical keyboard, and a variable-DPI mouse for about $4200.

And I can then replace parts as they go obsolete at my leisure.

~~~
valuearb
To build an actual comparable PC costs $4,600.

[http://www.pcgamer.com/apples-new-imac-pro-costs-5000-but-
is...](http://www.pcgamer.com/apples-new-imac-pro-costs-5000-but-is-it-
overpriced/)

And it isn't a svelte all-in one, won't have Apple's build quality, or
warranty, or run MacOS, and you'll have to spend your own time building and
maintaining it.

~~~
bovermyer
Personal preference, but:

1\. All-in one: a negative

2\. Build quality: Apple's build quality has gone down in the past seven
years.

3\. Warranty: OK, you got me there.

4\. MacOS: Of all the OSes I've used in my life, MacOS is certainly not the
best. It's not a selling point.

5\. Building & maintaining time: This is a positive. I enjoy being able to
know exactly what's in my machines and having the ability to replace any part
I want whenever I want.

There are other upsides to building your own versus buying a Mac.

1\. Complete control over aesthetics.

2\. Broader choice of OS.

3\. Broader hardware options.

If someone gave me a free iMac Pro, I would sell it and use the money to build
something I like.

Again, please note, this is personal preference and not intended to be a
judgment on those whose preferences differ from mine.

~~~
valuearb
Your personal preferences are yours, me I’d rather spend time being productive
than building/nursing a home brew machine.

But either way, if you need a fast xenon 8+ core system driving 5K video, it’s
hard to build one much cheaper than what Apples iMac Pro sells for.

