
Valve Says "Yes" To Steam Linux This Year - trotsky
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTExMzA
======
InclinedPlane
There are 3 important inflection points here.

One is Steam on linux period. Even if it were its own little universe, having
the support of Valve and the steam platform opens up a lot of opportunities
for gaming on linux.

Another is Valve's core games on linux, which would definitely give a big
kickstart to linux as a gaming platform.

Perhaps the most important could be when the top tier multi-platform game
engines begin including linux as a targeted platform as a matter of routine.

~~~
ekianjo
I am still wondering, however, whether we will really see Steam on "Linux" or
Steam on "A Single Distro", which would probably happen to be Ubuntu. If that
does happen, that would further consolidate the domination of Ubuntu in the
Linux World (at least in numbers) as an unintended consequence.

I do not see Valve releasing clients for every distro out there.

For Linux/Ubuntu to be really strong in gaming, Steam is a big plus, however
we also need strong driver support from nVidia and ATI. As far as I know, the
best drivers on Linux are still not on par with their equivalent on Windows in
terms of performance. If playing the same game on Linux means losing 10 fps on
your favorite game, this may not be a very enticing alternative if you have
both systems installed.

~~~
moonchrome
> As far as I know, the best drivers on Linux are still not on par with their
> equivalent on Windows in terms of performance.

Forget performance, ATI drivers are so unstable it's barely usable (eg. Gnome
3 restarting regularly, like once per hour), and that's just plain desktop
apps (Vim/browser), trying to run some version of VLC from default repo
instantly crashed the PC (needed to restart), when I tried to play games
random graphics bugs were everywhere (texture artifacts, framebuffer not
clearing properly, etc.) All distros I've tried so far have problems with
closed source drivers, and the OSS ones don't have HW 3D I think because it's
slow as hell. Also - you can't alt-tab from full screen games. I looked it up,
found a post that started with "you need to modify your xconfig" closed the
tab. I think linux needs a lot more polish to be viable for everyday use as
multimedia/gaming desktop OS, I would love to ditch the windows partition and
rebooting but I don't think it's going to happen soon.

~~~
Inufu
Interesting - I haven't had problems with any closed source drivers for years,
gaming works fine. I am using a ATI card right now, and it works completely
fine. Maybe there's some other problem?

~~~
ekianjo
What are you playing with exactly ? Any 3d games?

~~~
Monotoko
I can vouch for this too... I play World Of Warcraft (aging.. but still 3D)
using the ATI drivers and it actually runs better than it does on Windows. The
only thing I have issues with when using the closed source drivers is standby
(it never comes back ._.)

------
oscilloscope
For anyone looking to get some excellent games on their Linux box, don't miss
out on the current Humble Indie Bundle. Amnesia, Psychonauts, LIMBO, Sword &
Sworcery, and Bastion. Pay more than $1: get codes to unlock on Steam.

<http://www.humblebundle.com/>

Credit to Humble Bundle for showing that DRM-free can be profitable, and Linux
can make up a substantial slice of the revenue pie.

~~~
Kronopath
To be clear you have to pay over the average (which at the moment is $7.86) to
get Bastion. Still, this is probably the best Humble Bundle since the first
one. Every game here is great.

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muhfuhkuh
So, no more install.sh scripts that you have to chmod +x, no more "undefined
symbol" errors from games expecting old library files, no dependency hell
(though, admittedly, I don't encounter those as much anymore).

That I can _definitely_ get behind!

~~~
shmerl
But you get all the DRM junk. Better to deal with chmod +x than with DRM
restrictions.

~~~
nikomen
Contrary to popular belief, game companies have salaries to pay and are
interested in protecting their IP so they can continue to pay those salaries.

~~~
shmerl
Contrary to popular belief, not using DRM really shows respect by game
creators for their users. I simply won't buy any DRMed game. Luckily some
publishers like GOG emerged, who promote DRM free games, and have such major
contributors like CD Projekt Red who aren't scared to show respect for their
users by selling DRM free games. They (CD Projekt Red) managed not only to pay
salaries and improve their products, but also attracted a lot of potential
customers for their future titles. GOG is behind in providing Linux versions
yet, but I'd rather get DRM free game to run under Wine, than DRMed native
one.

~~~
Locke1689
Hold the phone everybody -- shmerl won't pay for DRM'd games. Better pack it
up folks, we're done here.

In all seriousness though (and this is a question that everyone should ask
themselves semi-regularly in a product-consumer situation): why do you matter?
If you don't have a compelling answer to this question, it may be that you
don't.

~~~
shmerl
Your choice matters. In this case I'd call it "vote with your wallet".
Preferring non DRMed games shows support for their developers, as simple as
that.

~~~
Locke1689
No. For Valve _many peoples'_ choice matters. My individual choice to purchase
or not purchase TF2 is of negligible concern. Now, if my individual choice is
indicative of a wider trend of people purchasing TF2, then maybe my choice
would matter.

The problem with people arguing about DRM is that fundamentally _most people
don't seem to care_. Video games are a billion dollar industry, but non-DRM'd
games are not.

You can vote with your wallet, but the data seems to indicate that your wallet
is too small to matter.

~~~
shmerl
The argument "since most don't care - you shouldn't either" is flawed. If you
are sure something is right - it doesn't matter how many care to do what's
right.

> Video games are a billion dollar industry, but non-DRM'd games are not.

It only should increase the incentive to avoid buying DRMed games, and
specifically support those who aren't scared to release theirs DRM free.

For example look at the latest Humble Indie Bundle. Linux users pay highest
average for the set. It shows that they encourage developers to produce Linux
games more than users of other OSes (obviously since Linux games scene is
lacking). You can argue, that Linux games market is miniscule, and if so, why
even bother to send your message in such form? But you still see people
showing appreciation, and developers can take note of this.

~~~
ekianjo
Usually for every Humble Bundle, the Linux share of the total is not so
minuscule, something like 15-20% if I remember correctly.

If we assume every bundle gets a total of a million dollars, shared between 5
games or so, that makes 200 000 per game, minus the donations to charity and
the fees to the Humble Bundle organization. Let's say 150 000 dollars per game
in the end. 15%-20% is 23 000 to 30 000 dollars, just for the Linux Port. If
you are an small team of indie developpers, I'd say that is not negligible at
the end of the day.

------
ysangkok
Remember how Phoronix insinuated it was just around the corner two years ago:
[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_steam_announcement&num=1)

I doubt Valve need two years to port it to Linux. With Gabe's track record of
taking his time developing software, I don't think we should get our hopes up
too soon.

~~~
chalst
That was an unsourced claim which Valve denied ("There's no Linux version that
we're working on right now. ", Aug 2010).

[http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-08-12-valve-on-
st...](http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-08-12-valve-on-steam-part-
two-interview?page=2)

~~~
joestringer
Has Valve actually confirmed the rumour this time around?

~~~
bionsuba
Gabe's email doesn't count?

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jiggy2011
Another thing to think about here:

It very interesting to me to think about Valve's motivations for doing this.
One theory is that they want to develop a console (which I have heard
denounced as a far fetches rumour on here).

So if we assume that this is not the case, and that you have a smart and well
established company like Valve porting their flagship products to the Linux
platform; what does that say about how they see the future for Linux in the
consumer space?

In other threads we have people worried that the coming UEFIgate will leave
the majority of devices locked out of running a Linux OS. If this is the case
then why would Valve _now_ be deciding to take on the task of porting
everything over to a platform that was as good as dead to the consumer?

~~~
dkersten
Maybe they're preparing in case Windows 8 doesn't do so well?

~~~
jiggy2011
In which case are they predicting a mass exodus of PC users from Windows to
desktop Linux? Or are they more interested in creating a Linux port as a step
towards porting it to future Linux based platforms (ChromeBook/Box?)?

If the future is ARM based devices and UEFI then people won't be able to
install Linux even Windows 8 sucks to an obscene degree.

~~~
EthanHeilman
Think about what happens to PC hardware vendors if windows8 tanks. Windows8
could destroy the PC and PC gaming by forcing everyone to consoles, mobiles or
Macs.

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StavrosK
This is fantastic news! All the games I want to play are available on Linux,
but, due the lack of the convenience that Steam offers has been off-putting. I
can finally enjoy most of my favorite games right in my favorite
environment...

------
shadowmint
Well, since android is basically a posix compliant linux system with a ui
layer on top, this seems like an obvious step in the direction of having a
full android steam client, which will be a massive win for them, especially
since I imagine much of osx code base ports across relatively easily.

(Yes, I know there are differences, but the point is that the _same base code_
can be ported easy if they do it right)

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10098
Can't wait to do a

steam install halflife2episode2

that is, if they provide a command line interface :-)

~~~
loboman
not sure about episode2, but Half Life 2 works perfectly with Steam, through
Wine (if you are using ubuntu, install wine, then download Steam and run it...
it should work just out of the box)

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vibrunazo
Desktop and console gaming are shrinking. [1] Mobile and browser games are
growing absurdly fast. The industry is shifting to mobile. [2] Steam is about
1 decade too late.

[1] <http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2011.pdf>

[2] [http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/video-game-
industry-...](http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/video-game-industry-
shifting-focus-to-mobile-devices-nasdaq-atvi-1641243.htm)

~~~
koeselitz
Well, this seems wrong on a couple of counts. For one thing, Steam has iOS and
Android clients as of January of this year. For another, Steam was released a
decade ago in 2002 - and if that's "1 decade too late," I'd like to see a
prototype for a game distribution client that would work on the 1992 internet
with 1992 hardware. (Seriously, that would be kind of neat. Very different, I
suspect, but interesting nonetheless.)

~~~
Aqua_Geek
> For one thing, Steam has iOS and Android clients[…]

Are you referring to the Steam Mobile app?
(<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/steam-mobile/id495369748?mt=8>)

That's a pretty far cry from being a real client. Granted, I'm sure it's been
hell trying to figure out how to play in Apple's garden - not to mention
porting their engine to iOS/Android. But still, they've got a ways to go
before I think we can call them a real player in the mobile gaming market.

EDIT:

> For another, Steam was released a decade ago in 2002 - and if that's "1
> decade too late," […]

Good point. Steam was a huge game changer and still continues to impress me.
But I think the parent was referring to being a decade too late in the sense
that the industry is shifting to mobile (though I'm not sure I completely
agree - not for the AAA titles on Steam, anyway).

~~~
koeselitz
These are fair points. To address the parent I was commenting on a bit better,
I agree with your last point about the industry not necessarily shifting to
mobile. There's not actually a lot of data here; the stuff I've seen (and the
stuff parent cites) suggests that the shift started in 2008, at the beginning
of a recession we're just now seeing the end of. Will the end of the recession
mean that people start buying consoles and console games again? It might. I'm
interested to see the 2012 numbers. My general sense, though, is that the
'hardcore gamer' industry is a different beast; it may be that the recession
trimmed off a lot of casual gamers who bought a Wii a few years ago because it
was the thing to do or something like that, but I have a very hard time
imagining my own gamer friends wholly abandoning dedicated gaming hardware and
immersive games that last forty and fifty hours at the least for even the most
advanced iOS games - which as an iPhone and iPad owner I can say are better
than I could have imagined, yet still not really the equal of console and
computer games.

------
jiggy2011
I wonder if this will stop at games?

If Valve manage to deliver a platform with an easy-install that works cross
distro it would seem a very good place for developers who want to port to
Linux but are scared of distro fragmentation issues.

I hope that I will be able to run games under Linux that I have already bought
for windows without having to re-buy them.

~~~
sliverstorm
It would be cool, but one thing about games that makes this much less painful-
they usually don't depend on twenty system libraries.

In other words, I doubt Valve is going to create a hyper-robust platform that
can intelligently install any package; that's completely unnecessary for their
purposes.

~~~
jiggy2011
I wouldn't be surprised if Steam for Linux just created it's own chrooted
environment and user account and then simply installed it's own set of
libraries which would then be shared amongst steam programs but not with the
system in general. X11 might be complicated of course (because Steam would
have to run in the same X11 session as other software), but perhaps Valve are
planning this around Wayland?

What this would provide is a "distro within a distro" where only things like
the kernel version would vary. This would potentially allow anything within
steam to sidestep a load of the distro compatibility issues. Instead of
creating a .deb and a .rpm you just package for Steam.

------
TheGateKeeper
I hope they have a CLI only version available for simpler server management on
both local and remote systems. Having it as a desktop UI for gaming would be
absolutely fantastic.

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phazmatis
Hopefully they don't bite off more than they can chew and try to run on more
than one flavor of linux. Ubuntu AMD64 LTS ought to be enough for anyone.

------
jebblue
Ok Valve is starting to rock. If it works they will start receiving my money
again. Time to upgrade my hardware - when it happens!

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shangrila
Linux has finally grown up. It's getting DRM!

~~~
sliverstorm
When has it not had DRM? There is boatloads of corporate software that runs on
Linux that interfaces with a license manager, for example.

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plq
I guess this means I should start looking at BSD as my primary desktop OS :)

------
ThePherocity
It'll finally a be a three horse race on the desktop.

~~~
ajross
Six. You forgot about the other three horses ("Sony", "Microsoft" and
"Nintendo") because they're so far ahead. And there are two little horses
coming up fast from behind.

Honestly, gaming "on the desktop" is a shrinking market. I'm sure I'll enjoy a
few Steam games on my Linux box (which I use basically 100% of the time), but
this is hardly a paradigm shift. Consoles and mobile (maybe "web" will persist
as a separate sub-market, but I'm not sure about that) are the future of
gaming platforms.

~~~
masklinn
> Honestly, gaming "on the desktop" is a shrinking market.

Let's throw bullshit in the air, it's not like anybody has numbers or give a
flying shit about them anyway.

> Consoles [...] are the future of gaming platforms.

Consoles have been the future of gaming platforms for 25 years now. And oddly,
computers are still there as gaming platforms with developers and distributors
making significant amounts of money from them. Hell, computer-based gaming has
never been better as far as I'm concerned, the big shitty franchise-based
publishers are getting the fuck away from it and indies are coming back to the
front of the scene.

Consoles are not the future of anything, they're a gaming media amongst
others. And mobile is nice, I play a lot on my phone, but let's not kid
ourselves: it's the future of killing handled consoles and that's about it.

~~~
astrodust
PC gaming is still growing, but the rate it's growing at is marginal compared
to the growth of gaming in general.

Console growth is considerable. Hand-held, including phones and phone-like
devices, is growing even faster.

What's prevented consoles from fully conquering the desktop is a few key
applications for which the PC is still a superior platform. One is ultra-high-
performance graphics, especially when directed at enthusiasts, and the other
is anything that requires a keyboard to be reasonably useful, e.g. strategy
games and MMORPGs.

If the next generation consoles include a mouse and a wireless keyboard, the
PC gaming market would implode in a matter of years.

Kids that have grown up with an XBox of PS3 aren't going to want to fiddle
with drivers or find out how to patch their game using the "Downloader App" or
endlessly wrestle with DRM. They won't bother to switch unless there's a very
good reason, and every day there's fewer reasons.

~~~
clinth
> Kids that have grown up with an XBox of PS3 aren't going to want to fiddle
> with drivers or find out how to patch their game using the "Downloader App"
> or endlessly wrestle with DRM.

Have you used Steam? It patches games automatically and you don't have to
fiddle with DRM. My Steam client keeps dozens of games perfectly current
without asking me. This is part of why everyone loves it: specifically because
it makes it as close to painless as you're going to get.

Also, I'm guessing that a good number of current PC devs/gamers grew up
playing a Nintendo console, and they still migrated over, somehow.

~~~
astrodust
Steam is a great delivery platform which handles _most_ but not all DRM
issues. I've bought several Steam distributed titles that were very strict
about re-installs, something only apparent after I'd bought them. Thanks
Ubisoft!

Even as painless as Steam is, there's still the driver wrestling, yak-shaving
that is maintaining a properly working Gaming PC. Some people enjoy the
challenge. This is not going to fly with those used to the "put in disc, play
game" crowd.

In time the "PC" will slowly fade away to be replaced by other things just as
the precursor to the PC, like the "Minicomputer" and the "Mainframe", will
become an anachronism. I'm not saying this will happen tomorrow, but you'll
see a shift over the next ten years.

There comes a point where the performance advantage offered by the PC, which
is considerable, is negated by the fact that developers can't make use of it.
What good would a graphics card with 3,000,000 shaders be today? Why should
you need a 256-core CPU to play games? If your equivalent console had only
1,000,000 shaders and 64-cores, which would surely attract scorn and derision,
would you really be missing out on much in the scheme of things?

~~~
EthanHeilman
The advantage of the PC is the ease of writing and publishing a game for the
PC. With the exception of screen resolution graphics haven't really mattered
for the last five years. It's creativity, good writing, and good gameplay.
It's cheaper to take risks and innovate on the PC since it requires so little
capital to make a game vs consoles. Only mobile is competitive on this front.

