
The next generation of wall chargers - rutenspitz
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/1/30/18203879/gan-chargers-anker-powerport-atom-pd-1-ravpower-45w
======
Animats
Not seeing UL or CSA approval numbers on those.

That's important for switching power supplies, especially small ones. A
switching power supply is always a few milliseconds from being a short circuit
across the input. And FETs fail in the ON state. That's why those things are
inherently fire risks and need protection circuitry. Really tiny ones make it
worse; if they fail, there's not much space to dissipate heat before something
blows and opens the circuit.

~~~
mherdeg
Gosh that's odd; Ravpower has a blog post about UL certification's importance
( [https://blog.ravpower.com/2018/04/usb-charger-safety-
certifi...](https://blog.ravpower.com/2018/04/usb-charger-safety-
certifications-recalls/) ) but you're right, their RP-PC104 45W GaN USB-C wall
charger and its manual don't list UL certification information (
[https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/5656/5579/files/RP-
PC...](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/5656/5579/files/RP-
PC104_User_Manual.pdf?23087) , [https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-
pc104-45w-pd-wall-charg...](https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc104-45w-pd-
wall-charger) ).

~~~
tpowell
I’ve had the slim 45W RavPower one since June and it’s great. It’s almost
startling how small it is. I much prefer it in the bag for coffee shop trips,
etc. I use it with my 15” MBP and I haven’t seen any power issues with plenty
of Chrome tabs and InDesign/Photoshop running. I usually have the extension
cord on the 87W one at home—it’s so nice not to have to lug that whole
assembly or look for the smaller attachment.

~~~
djsumdog
I mean, when it works it will work. When it fails ... you'll be depending on
the protection circuitry in your laptop. If it goes catastrophic/worst-case,
your laptop might be exposed to mains power.

~~~
rstuart4133
Yes, that is the worst case. Almost. But object effected can be something more
disconcerting:

[https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/pa5mng/a-16-year-old-
has-...](https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/pa5mng/a-16-year-old-has-died-
after-being-electrocuted-by-his-headphones)

One time it happened in Australia, who investigated the cause thoroughly:

> We know absolutely that the charger itself failed, and that it arced between
> the 240 volt input and the five volt output. So that's definitive," said
> Lynelle Collins of NSW Fair Trading. "We've got photos, we've got proof
> that's been dismantled, so we know that the charger failed.

------
agurk
When I got a new laptop this summer I researched what chargers were out there,
as I was fed up with carrying the normal assortment of cables and chargers. I
settled for another GaN charger - the Innergie Powergear 60c[0] which is a
very decent size for 60w and not having a mains lead built into it (still very
common on non-mac chargers) makes it a lot more compact.

I travel a lot, often with more than one laptop, so now I'm very happy I can
charge all my electronics with this one charger and also with the changeable
country tips it's more compact than a travel adaptor.

The only downside I've had with it is the US power tip got bent the first time
I used it - I contacted Innergie to see if I could get a replacement, but they
never got back to me.

[0]
[http://www.myinnergie.com/sg/product/136](http://www.myinnergie.com/sg/product/136)

~~~
lazyjeff
I've got the same one, very pricey, but amazing to travel with compared to the
giant macbook charger. It's only 60W but charges almost as fast as the 87W one
for 15" macbooks. It's also really nice to be able to charge all my travel
gadgets with one small charger, reducing the number of cables and chargers I
have to carry.

I'm hoping that giant power bricks and those adapters that power via barrel
plugs will disappear soon, as I find them to be unwieldy and dirt magnets.
Computer monitors are most guilty of having some of the biggest power bricks,
and I'd love to see them replaced with regular power cables (the ones that
plug into desktop computers), or the monitor be powered over usb-c so any
regular 100W usb-c adapter can power them.

~~~
wongarsu
> Computer monitors are most guilty of having some of the biggest power
> bricks, and I'd love to see them replaced with regular power cables

Dell Monitors have a single power cable (for example this P2418D [1]). Many
other manufacturers ship giant power bricks because it allows them to make the
screen thinner, and nobody sees the power brick under the table. It comes down
to customer preference.

1: [https://snpi.dell.com/snp/images/products/large/210-AMUH-
mvi...](https://snpi.dell.com/snp/images/products/large/210-AMUH-mvi5.jpg)

~~~
erik_seaberg
I'm fine with a brick for heat dissipation, I just wish OEM bricks came with a
label saying which device they're for.

------
dclaw
I love how no one is talking about how this article is from January of this
year... Anker has a newer version that is even smaller now. It may only be 18W
and rated for phones, but it matches the size of the original 5W Apple
charger.
[https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WRKXQ8W](https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WRKXQ8W)

------
moreati
For Brits and visitors to our shores there's
[https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone](https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone)
and [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/muone/mu-two-next-
gener...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/muone/mu-two-next-
generation-63w-dual-usb-type-c-wall-charger)

~~~
Angostura
The Anker box mentioned is £20 on Amazon.co.uk

~~~
moreati
I mentioned the Mu because it has a folding UK plug. Small chargers lose much
of their smallness when using a standard UK plug.

~~~
dspillett
I've had an older Mu for some time for travelling. There are much cheaper
copies, and alternative designs, these days* but I can't vouch for their
quality as I've never used them. The Mu seems well-built and after many uses
still feels solid.

[*] [https://idaffodil.co.uk/products/slim-foldable-usb-
charger-a...](https://idaffodil.co.uk/products/slim-foldable-usb-charger-
august-umc301-1-port-for-iphone-ipad-and-
android?variant=22651793997888&currency=GBP) to pick one at random from a
quick search, or
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VDJLD1Q/](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VDJLD1Q/)
for C-type though that is only 15W not 45W like the Mu C-type models.

------
lhl
One of my minor goals for 2020 is to switch all the gear I carry around to
being USB-C PD. I've been doing some research on the subject, so just thought
I'd throw my 2 cents in (some of this stuff mentioned in other comments).

There's a pretty good site,
[https://www.chargerlab.com/](https://www.chargerlab.com/) (see also:
[https://twitter.com/chargerlab](https://twitter.com/chargerlab) ) that's
dedicated to reviewing charging peripherals.

I started off the year with an Innergie 60C, which has worked great for
everything I've thrown at it and is tiny (55mL volume, 88g, 60W USB-C PD). It
was on-sale recently, but even at full price has been worth it for me.
(Although the newer RavPower PD Pioneer 61W is a good alternative that's
almost as small and 1/3 the price.)

I'm looking forward to adding the upcoming Sanho HyperJuice 100W charger
(about twice the size, but a bunch more ports)
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-
wo...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-worlds-first-
and-smallest-100w-gan-charger)

Instead of the Anker PD1 18W, for a small charger, I use the Anker PIQ 30W -
it's very slim, which actually makes it much easier to carry around. Also, the
IMO folding plugs (and extra juice) are definitely worth the extra volume.

Recently, for my Mavic Pro 2, I just got a cheap Cablcc USB-C to Plug
Receptacle Charger cable and a RCGEEK car charger that seems to work well as a
nice 2-in-1 (it only saves a tiny bit of volume and weight over the wall
charging but it also provides car charging).

Also, although I'm unsure of how often I'll need it, I got a 100Wh Zendure
Super Tank power bank (which provides USB-C PD 100W charging), since it was
discounted heavily for Black Friday (it was only $100 on sale vs $200+ for
other similar options).

Also, I travel internationally a lot, and the MOGICS Donut has been my go-to
combination power strip and adapter - it's the best/most compact device I've
found (and has 2 USB-A chargers built in to handly legacy devices).
[https://www.mogics.com/3824-2](https://www.mogics.com/3824-2)

~~~
notacoward
I have a bunch of USB-C devices - two laptops, a Switch, a phone, and a pair
of headphones. The only one that I regularly charge from a USB-C PD port is
the larger laptop. The rest do just fine with USB-A to USB-C cables from a
four-port (one PD plus three USB-A) adapter. _Occasionally_ I'll pull out my
Atom and corresponding cable to charge another one of those devices more
quickly, but that's actually pretty rare and I never need more PD ports than
that. Never, and I travel more than most. I wish more people knew that A-to-C
cables are a totally sufficient, cheaper, and more compact alternative for
many devices.

~~~
dspillett
Of course, it depends how much juice your A-ports can provide and how fussy
you are about things charging as fast as they can. If most of your A ports
provide no more than 1-or-2 amps, maybe 3, at 5V then most (all?) devices that
charge via USB-C will charge slower than they could. That won't realistically
matter at all for refreshing a phone overnight, or even a chunky laptop, but
it'll still matters to some.

------
nwienert
And then there’s this thing which is smaller than either and 60W

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBYVF4Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fu...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBYVF4Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fud5Db6TJ9ZD9)

~~~
cjcampbell
I recommend the RavPower 61W GaN over Innergie. The Innergie is smaller, but
it is 3x the cost and, in my experience, less reliable and less ergonomic.

I purchased the Innergie after a previous travel charger failed. Loved it at
first, but started experiencing issues pretty quickly. The first issue I
encountered was that the plug would fold in frequently while I was trying to
plug into outlet. Over the course of a couple months, I started seeing more
issues with the reliability of the charger as well. It never completely
failed, but I would often have to play around with reversing the cable and the
direction of the outlet side usb-c in order to get charging to start. This was
a bit concerning to me given that complaint USB-C cables are completely bi-
directional.

~~~
codetrotter
Anyone have a good recommendation for a wall charger similar to RavPower
mentioned in parent comment but with EU plug?

Additionally, is there a good charger with EU plug that I can use to charge
both my MacBook Air 2018 (USB-C) and my iPhone X with at the same time?

~~~
nicky0
The Mu One 45W charger comes with UK, EU and US interchangeable plugs.
[https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone](https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone)

------
ksec
I asked a year ago When could we expect GaN to be more widely available and it
seems the answer is still true as of today.

GaN mosfet costs 10x more [1] than a silicon one of similar power rating. And
the multiples gets wider at 15x for 1K units.

I doubt we will see Apple include a GaN charger as default for quite some
time.

[1]: IPAW60R380CEXKSA1 (silicon) costs $1.26, IGT60R190D1SATMA1 (GaN) costs
$13.

~~~
huslage
I just got a new 16" MacBook Pro and the power brick is 96W, but the same size
as the 60W from a few years ago. I'd say this is likely a GaN unit, but I
don't have any proof of that.

~~~
dmd
Lots of people have opened them up already; it's not GaN.

------
stefan_
Ironically, the best USB-C charger for something like a phone (laptops come
with chargers, anyway) I've found is simply the Raspberry Pi 4 USB-C charger -
very cheap ($10), small, plenty power (15W), fixed cable and no fucking blue
Anker LED that can illuminate your bedroom.

~~~
tjoff
For your bedroom you'd really want an old 5W charger. Why turbo charge and put
permanent strain on your battery when anything that takes 6+ hours will do.

~~~
driverdan
If it's a good quality charger it shouldn't be feeding the battery enough
power to impact its lifetime.

~~~
adrianmonk
A phone will charge as rapidly as it can without _undue_ risk to the battery's
longevity. But, it's still a trade-off. If you charged slower, you would
decrease risk to longevity.

But when you to bed, your phone doesn't know that rapid charging convenience
doesn't matter. So it will still make the same trade-off. If you use a less-
powerful charger, you can force it to take its time in charging.

~~~
kalleboo
> _But when you to bed, your phone doesn 't know that rapid charging
> convenience doesn't matter_

iPhones now know that you're going to bed and adjusts the charging to match
[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210512](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT210512)

I believe some Android phones have had the same feature for years now, dunno
about the base android OS

------
WillPostForFood
100w GaN coming from Sanho. They've done good products in the past, so very
optimistic about this. Two USB A and two USB C ports.

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-
wo...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-worlds-first-
and-smallest-100w-gan-charger)

------
martingordon
I'm still waiting for a USB-C charger with more than two ports. Until then,
I'm sticking with USB-A cables for everything except my MacBook Pro. For
travel (where outlets are often at a premium), I use a four port USB-A charger
on a nightstand to charge 2 iPhones and an Apple Watch (this one:
[https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Foldable-PowerPort-
Sams...](https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Foldable-PowerPort-
Samsung/dp/B00VH8G1SY)).

~~~
sm4rk0
Something like this?

[https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html](https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html)

------
jedberg
Way back in the 90s aerospace was replacing silicon with gallium arsenide to
make more efficient and faster chips.

I’m glad to see it’s finally reaching a useful commercial application.

~~~
kbaker
Note that this is Gallium Nitride (GaN,) not Gallium Arsenide (GaAs).

~~~
jedberg
Right but I believe it is a similar process built in the same R&D.

------
Tade0
How do does gallium nitride stack up against silicon carbide? I heard the
latter is responsible for the recent increase in efficiency of EVs.

~~~
madengr
Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF
amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is
essentially obsoleted now.

What’s interesting is how the DOD heavily invested in GaN technology in 90s
and 00s, pushing the USA ahead of Japan in compound semiconductor. Weather
that lead will stay; who knows. The Chinese have a GaN fab now. GaN is
critical for RADAR and higher power SATCOM, so big defense support that has
dual use for civilian wireless comms.

~~~
baybal2
> Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF
> amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is
> essentially obsoleted now.

Wait wait wait... GaN and SiC have very, very different use profiles, and
characteristics. SiC is by no means obsolete, and nor are purpose made silicon
switches.

SiC is here to stay because of one very unique trait among all other
semiconductors - a very pronounced negative temperature coefficient, and
without extreme non-linearity.

Second to that is more or less linear threshold voltage temperature
coefficient. GaN has positive threshold voltage temperature coefficient.

Third, SiC can simply operate at higher temperatures, and have known longer
lifespan. GaN's current limits are WAY lower.

Fourth, transfer characteristic... Si, GaN, and SiC are all very different.
This is one of few measures on which plain silicon beats contenders.

~~~
madengr
I was thinking in terms of RF amps. Cree was making SiC FETs several years
ago, but I think it’s all GaN on SiC now. There was a SiC fab in CA making RF
parts, but I think they went belly-up. All the SiC FETs topped out a 2.5 GHz.

How does the negative temp coefficient help; stability for very high temps? I
know the positive temp coefficient was an issue in RF BJT, requiring ballast
resistors for stabilization, but those are not needed in any FETs. The
positive temp coefficient should be useful for GaN as long as you have temp
stabilization in the bias network; all of my amps did.

Good point about the high temp. I know of some oil drill electronics in SiC. I
just though SiC was dead for RF.

~~~
baybal2
> How does the negative temp coefficient help; stability for very high temps?

You can put multiple switches in parallel, and have them self balance without
resorting to active temperature compensation which is completely out of
question for any consumer grade device.

For power electronics, GaN is nowhere near as big of a bang as SiC, with its
current handling being the primary showstopper. SiC can switch 100A loads at
one kilovolt and above with ease, and at very high frequencies. There are
simply no equivalent GaN part for this comparison.

Second to that, GaN needs a tricky gate driver, and is normally an n-channel
depletion mode device. SiC can still be driven driverless at lo

Second to that, SiC JFETs still have niche uses in audio amps exactly because
of their "bad" shallow IV curve.

------
amq
Still waiting for the next generation of USB-C hubs. Currently, almost all
cause Wi-Fi issues, most will have Windows complain about "limited display
connection".

~~~
madengr
That’s just due to cost cutting (poor shielding). GaN will allow a faster slew
rate (higher break down voltage), so emissions will actually become worse.

The FCC needs to enforce emissions regulations. I remember when PCs (even the
C64) had cases to meet emissions requirements. Now you see PCs in glass cases.
It really sucks doing amateur radio in an urban area due to spectrum
pollution.

------
standardUser
I'm still shocked at how poorly most plugs are designed for fitting in various
outlets and power strips.

~~~
moonbug
that's mostly because American domestic outlets are the worst in the world.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Do you have an example you'd hold up as the ideal or best case outlet?

~~~
dpeck
The UK plug design is generally regarded as the best of the standard ones
[https://www.fastcompany.com/3032807/why-england-has-the-
best...](https://www.fastcompany.com/3032807/why-england-has-the-best-wall-
sockets-on-earth)

From my experience with some amount of traveling, I would agree that its very
nice to use in practice and definitely got a lot of things right.

~~~
_Microft
Did I understand correctly that outlets contain a switch and are off by
default and that the grounding pin switches them on when inserting the plug?
That's great.

~~~
epanchin
Not an electrical switch. The outlets contain a physical gate over live and
neutral that is pushed open by the longer earth pin.

~~~
dmurray
Which means you can use a European plug in a UK socket, if you first put
something in the earth slot (a key works well).

European travellers are generally impressed when I show them this trick, and
sometimes rightly concerned that I'm sticking metal objects into a power
outlet. If there's any chance the outlet is wired incorrectly, don't do this
unless you can isolate the outlet or the key.

~~~
rwmj
Yeah I wouldn't rely on things being wired correctly. When I moved into my
current UK house the neutral and earth were physically connected (someone had
driven a nail through a cable and "got lucky"). Took a while to find the nail
and fix that.

------
Camillo
Ok, but they're USB-C, meaning there is an 80% chance they implement the spec
incorrectly (resulting in weird issues with random devices), and a 10% chance
that they are straight up unsafe. Benson is no longer updating his list AFAIK,
but that's not because people have learned to do USB-C correctly; they
haven't, e.g. [0]

[0]: [https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-
usb-...](https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-c-power-
sink-hint-not-the-way-raspberry-pi-4-did-it-f470d7a5910)

------
throwaway9d0291
Since people are throwing out chargers they like, here's my current favourite:
[https://satechi.net/products/75w-dual-type-c-pd-travel-
charg...](https://satechi.net/products/75w-dual-type-c-pd-travel-charger)

It's fantastic for travel. It can charge my laptop (USB-C), Apple Watch +
iPhone (USB-A) and power bank (USB-C) all at the same time. It also has a
detachable AC cable so you can swap it before you leave instead of carrying an
international plug adapter.

------
ur-whale
Would anyone knowledgeable care to explaine why GaN based charges are more
efficient than Silicon based ones ?

~~~
jSully24
This article describes that:
[https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18051974/gallium-
nitride-...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18051974/gallium-nitride-
anker-material-silicon-semiconductor-energy) (link was in the article).

~~~
ur-whale
I did read the linked article.

It doesn't really explain anything.

------
Tagbert
I wonder why they didn’t include the RAVPower 61w GaN charger. It is smaller
than the “Slim” model and has folding prongs.
[https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-
tech-61w-wall...](https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-
tech-61w-wall-charger)

------
baybal2
A man in OEM manufacturing here. Not an electronics engineer professionally,
but more or less involuntary having to deal with it.

First, I will say that GaN is not a make or break deal yet now. There are very
high performance silicon switches that can produce equal gains for use cases
in consumer electronic. In absolute comparison GaN is of course winning over
Si, but use case wise, not so much.

GaN's main appeal is that you can retrofit it into simplest buck topologies,
and get instant gains without any extra hassle.

GaN works best for low current, low voltage applications you normally see in
consumer electronics. Everywhere else besides RF, it's not a clear improvement
over silicon.

For long time GaN existed in a narrow niche of high frequency circuits, where
people were OK with n channel depletion mode device with a lot of tricky
sides. Its use as a power switch is relatively novel.

Enhancement mode devices are now on the market, but there is a catch. Because
p-GaN is nowhere near as good as n-GaN, pure GaN enhancement mode devices are
nowhere near as good as depletion mode devices. For this reason, some
companies are trying a an approach with hybridised GaN-Si device to overcome
that. Again, that is way more tricky and expensive than a single material
device.

Now, back to chargers. It is _easily possible_ to make more compact chargers
without any exotic switches GaNfets included for as long as you put just a
little bit more brains to engineering by going to better topologies.

What a lot of charger makers do these days to go along with the trend for
smaller chargers is to turn up their switching frequencies as much as possible
without melting the charger. They still do miscalculations about that, and you
now have a lot of molten/burnt chargers as a result.

They are being misguided by the switching speed narrative, and completely miss
that point that size of passive components has to do with way more things than
just switching speed.

First, they can throw away the standalone rectification, gaining some
efficiency in the process. Second, they should either go with some advanced
flat transformer setup with appropriate resonant topology. Or they can throw
away transformer altogether and use piezo transformer, or capacitive
isolation. Third, a separate buck for last stage DC-DC can also be thrown away
if you use multitap transformer and some electronic switching.

Transformers are by far biggest contributors to charger volume, and weight,
and are bigger than capacitors in some cases. Throwing them away will provide
way more space savings, along with other extraneous components.

So think twice about going the GaN route before considering things above
first. Switching performance in a typical AC-DC is by far not the biggest of
your problems.

------
Ottolay
Good discussion of SiC vs GaN for EV applications:

[https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-
semicondu...](https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-
semiconductors-for-ev-power-converters/)

------
IndrekR
I think GaN transistors are a major thing in the next decade. Designed a GaN
FET based small vehicle motor controller few years ago and similar
size/speed/efficiency is currently not achievable with any other _mass
produced_ transistor type. There used to be only small players on the field
(GaN Systems and EPC) but now Panasonic and Infineon have started offering
their versions. Expecting the prices to go down and volumes go up.

------
floatboth
Any of these fancy GaN chargers have USB-IF certification?

------
Ottolay
There are PC power supplies with Ga-N transistors these days, but seems they
are so far used only for the very top end.

[https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-
ax1600i-psu...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu-
review-unparalleled-performance)

------
paggle
If I built a new house today I’d wire 12 volts DC in addition to 110VAC. Safe
for kids and fewer unsightly wall warts.

~~~
m0xte
Also impractical due to I^2R losses.

~~~
paggle
Not if you has an in-wall supply in each room.

~~~
m0xte
I’ll stick with the AC thanks. Having a house full of switchers is going to be
hell.

~~~
paggle
I already have a house full of switchers, with all the wall warts! I've got at
least 15 that are always plugged in.

------
jdkee
Are these chargers UL certified? I would be wary of using higher wattage
chargers that have no been properly tested.

------
Havoc
Is this a mains frequency thing?

I saw the GaN stuff on US Amazon but cost and specs seemed worse than the uk
ones.

eg the uk Anker 60W ones cost less look about the same size can do 30W PD and
has another 5 ports too

I just don’t see the value proposition of these GaN ones

------
caseyf7
This is an area we needed Jony Ive to dedicate some time to improving. An
Apple Pro charger for road warriors designed by Jony would be an awesome
parting gift to the world.

------
sgt101
My levono comes with a 65w charger that's not much bigger than the 45 w
charger shown here... What's the big deal?

------
dzhiurgis
> It’s not perfect yet: Anker’s 30W Atom PD 1 struggles to power something as
> large as a 13-inch MacBook Pro

Umm wot, maybe older MacBooks, maybe when gaming or rendering. For writing
code and browsing on a 15incher I'm averaging 20watts. Cheap 12v cigarette
lighter one that does 24w is enough (but barely) to keep things running for
me. If I turn off most of apps I get as low 6watts on a hexacore device. I use
iStat menus to monitor my power use which is quite exciting.

~~~
javagram
Apple’s recommended charger for a 13inch MBP is a 61W adapter, for the 15 inch
is an 87W and for the 16 inch is a 96W.

Although you can use an under-specced adapter it probably won’t be enough to
power and charge the system while fully using the CPU, GPU, and screen.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Basically you just repeated what I just said...

I am actually considering buying 30W one for it's portability.

But then again I am not a YouTube influencer that occasionally games and cuts
videos (you know, the person that Apple designs it's computers nowadays for).

~~~
kalleboo
> _the person that Apple designs it 's computers nowadays for_

I develop software in Apple's programming language using Apple's frameworks
and Apple's own IDE, and power usage is through the roof. 50W while typing
(and auto-complete is doing it's job) and 80W while building.

I think it's odd and quite rude that you dismiss anyone who has higher
computing than just typing some basic text and browsing the web to be "a
YouTube influencer". If all you need is the computing power of an Eee PC then
yeah, I don't think you are Apple's target market.

~~~
dzhiurgis
I use WebStorm and IntelliJ. From what I know Apple's IDE is one of the most
appalling one while IntelliJ is one of the best. Yes they are both using quite
a bit of resources. Nope, neither of them are compiling code using GPU and via
super accurate colour gamut.

------
BurningFrog
Uninformed basic question: Would these charge my phone faster than the
standard ones?

~~~
mastax
Unfortunately, it depends. There are various standards that devices use to
negotiate how much power to send over the USB cable. These chargers tend to
support all the popular standards so they'll charge your phone at the fastest
possible speed (unless you have a OnePlus or OPPO phone). If you have a
midrange or higher Android phone, the included charger likely charges at max
speed. If you have an iPhone with the 5W adapter, any of these adapters will
charge faster than that.

~~~
BurningFrog
Thanks!

My Pixel 4 charges at 18W, and I'm probably good as is.

------
jbverschoor
N mention of the innergie 60c Which is 60w, changeable us/EU/uk

------
mrfusion
Does this breakthrough apply to other things like inverters?

------
paul7986
Are there any wireless charging pads or surfaces that I can buy/use with a
phone case that has a thick backing?

~~~
Scoundreller
A dirt cheap one still works with an otter box for me.

------
SlowRobotAhead
WOW... This is a horribly misleading article and discussion. The silicon of
the switching circuit PALES in comparison to the real magic here.

The wattage capability and size of these chargers is only possible because of
US “power delivery”. These chargers are NOT hitting 30+ watts at 5V
traditional USB voltage. Yes, there is another power and ground wire pair in
the cable, but iirc they got smaller in diameter.

These devices are small and cool there because your device can charge at up to
20V now.

GAN didn’t outright make that happen on the source or sink side. It didn’t
hurt, it’s cool, but the difference is smaller than they are implying by
comparing a 5V device to a 20V device.

An article that goes on about fast charging and never says “20V” once is not
telling you the full story.

~~~
goosehonk
I believe the point was that GaN semiconductors make these chargers more
compact, cooler, and lighter than their silicon competitors.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
But that isn’t really the case. These chargers wouldn’t be pushing 30+W to
device at this size if they weren’t also at 20V. One way before the other!

Lock it down to 5V and the size goes way up. The comparison to Apple’s 5V and
5W from like 2008 is at best misleading.

Are these smaller because of better silicon, yes, are they marginally smaller
and the real difference is USB pd, also yes.

~~~
Terretta
No, the real difference isn’t PD2. They have models with identical specs where
size difference is not the PD but material.

------
Nasrudith
I know that "silicion" isn't just pure silicon given dopings but I can't help
but ponder the environmental and toxicological differences between the two.
Gallium nitride seems loke it might be more toxic and gives me a sneaking
suspicion they will be a "compact floreacent tube" solution that is a flash in
the pan decade standard that gets replaced by something far less toxic anyway
(LEDs). However I know that I don't know the details so I cannot judge only
raise concerns which I hope were already addressed.

I understand the logistics issues involved in standardization of repeatably
used sockets but USB chargers are so very "unhygenic" from a security
perspective. Proper design from the data end shouldn't allow any unexpected
changes but that is error prone in practice. It is sort of like sharing cups -
in theory the immune system should take care of any pathogens but in practice
it is a needless risk.

Getting into engineer dreams, an ideal design would involve readily apparent
subsets between charge and data pins even if they occupy the same socket. So
any charger honeypots to plant or extract data would be obviously
untrustworthy.

~~~
kens
There's no need to ponder the toxicity of gallium nitride and worry about your
"sneaking suspicion" that it's toxic. It's in the "may cause skin irritation"
level of toxicity, so really not worth worrying about.
[https://www.ltschem.com/msds/GaN.pdf](https://www.ltschem.com/msds/GaN.pdf)

~~~
Nasrudith
That is good to hear. I remembered the mercury resemblance and recalled it as
a "mercury lite" toxic. Turns out even pure gallium is pretty mild.

~~~
jacquesm
> Turns out even pure gallium is pretty mild

It's pretty mild unless it contacts something made of aluminum. Then it's
fairly impressively destructive.

