
Apple's inspirational note to new hires - dko
http://instagr.am/p/KTOGobADKa
======
josteink
So like... A company bragging about itself in a way to make employees work
more without asking to get paid for it? Can't say I've seen anything like that
before. How original this makes Apple!

Back to real life: every company claims to be best, unique or something like
that. Some hollow, BS claim to motivate their employees. But just because they
print it on a poster doesn't make it any more real.

Apple is heartless corporation like all others. This can easily be seen in
their profit-margins: They care about money more than anything else.

I don't see why Apple fanboys feels the need to make Apple anything more, you
know, like a _special_ corporation, which _cares_ about them, personally. If
you think that sounds obnoxious or facetious, I've seen people here on HN make
those exact claims.

Anyway: It's a corporation. Making money. Often in ethically shady ways.
Nothing more, nothing less. Like every other corporation.

~~~
SwellJoe
I'd go further, and say that Apple is significantly worse than many other
corporations in our industry, in terms of how they treat their people, how
they treat their customers, and how they view the world and the ecosystem in
which they operate. When Apple has power, they abuse it. When they don't have
power, they fight tooth and nail to obtain it, while playing the underdog
card.

And, there are corporations in our industry that are _not_ "heartless...like
all the others". If there weren't, we wouldn't have a higher standard to
compare Apple to in order to see their many shortcomings; rarely are those
better companies as successful as Apple (which is a great disappointment to
me, as a believer in free markets), but many exist. There are, of course, many
worse companies, as well. But, Apple certainly isn't a good one.

~~~
kamaal
Apple was only about one thing _Fulfill Steve Jobs's vision_. Throughout
history men who made others work for their dreams with a religious zeal and
discipline always did good. Note: they did good, and not always the ones who
worked for them.

That is why dictatorship looks so good from the outside, because you can see
the results. But internally someone somewhere is living in most miserable
conditions to make things happen. You will see this pattern in every
authoritarian and dictatorial set up.

Those stories from his biography on sending the most hardworking and
performing person on his team on vacation just to deny him bonus. Denying
stocks to most early employees who deserved it. Doesn't reflect good on Steve
Jobs's part.

~~~
ralfd
AFAIK the story on the Apple IPO was that he didn't intervene for a good
personal friend which was only working half time and so was not eligible for
stock.

That is an assholish move! But it was also in a sense fair for the other full
time working engineers.

Aside from that, the early Apple stories about Steve are showing that he not
only was a dictator, but a clueless twenty-something kid. How to lead a
company Jobs learned later at Next and Pixar. Not that he wasn't then also
famously difficult, but he did manage to attract very good talents and have
decade long working relationships with them.

------
kamaal
>>There's work and there's your life's work.

Sure there is, that is why we choose to do it for a price that makes our life
rewarding and deserving of such work. Talking of work and no rewards and
compensation is not very impressive these days.

>>The kind of work that has your fingerprints all over it.

Yes that is why commits to source code repos exists. So that users who make
them are traceable. Nearly every Open source repository has a AUTHORS/CREDITS
files these days.

>>The kind of work that you'd never compromise on. That you'd sacrifice a
weekend for.

I would only sacrifice my time for some compensation in return.

>>You can do that kind of work at Apple. People don't come here to play it
safe. They come here to swim in the deep end. They want their work to add upto
something. Something big, something that couldn't happen else where.

They said the same thing to slaves who built the Pyramids, Taj Mahal and
Colosseum of Rome. And they did build things far more majestic and time
lasting than the iPhone, iPad, Mac or the iPod. I don't wish to die as a slave
even if I'm building the Taj Mahal. Nobody cares, and its you who is having
this horrible life sacrificing your time, energy and other things in life for
somebody else.

This is hardly inspirational. This sort of inspiration evaporates in thin air
after you receive your salary two months into your job.

~~~
ticks
Just a side note. I noticed that when you quoted the first line, you
subconsciously added the first two contracted "is" words. When I read the
text, I found the first line difficult to read due to the contractions. I
wonder why they did it that way.

------
outside1234
Let me write my own version based on experience:

"There's work and then there's my life's work.

The kind of work that will make me millions. You'll work weekends while I'm at
my 5000 sqft "green" house in Portola Valley or Tahoe on Friday through
Monday. You will do that work here at Apple.

We don't want people to come here and play it safe. We want people to come
here that want to drink the kool-aid. We want their work to add up to
something for us. If it doesn't, prepare to be screamed at once a day or more.

I want your work to add up to something. Something big. Something that results
in wealth for me.

Welcome to burnout. You'll only last 3 years and then I'll replace you with
new kool-aid.

------
pm90
Somehow, I feel that the following short anecdote is appropriate here:

"There are ancient cathedrals which, apart from their consecrated purpose,
inspire solemnity and awe. Even the curious visitor speaks of serious things,
with hushed voice, and as each whisper reverberates through the vaulted nave,
the returning echo seems to bear a message of mystery. The labor of
generations of architects and artisans has been forgotten, the scaffolding
erected for their toil has long since been removed, their mistakes have been
erased, or have become hidden by the dust of centuries. Seeing only the
perfection of the completed whole, we are impressed as by some superhuman
agency. But sometimes we enter such an edifice that is still partly under
construction; then the sound of hammers, the reek of tobacco, the trivial
jests bandied from workman to workman, enable us to realize that these great
structures are but the result of giving to ordinary human effort a direction
and purpose. Science has its cathedrals, built by the efforts of a few
architects and of many workers." -Gilbet Newton Lewis

------
dvhh
nice, but how many of you are ready to sacrifice your life (weekends) for a
company's profit. \- Curing cancer: yes \- Saving lives : yes \- Building an
outlet for yet spending more money : no

As much a I love my work, I won't love it more than my wife, or my future
children.

~~~
Drbble
> As much a I love my work, I won't love it more than my wife, or my future
> children.

Steve Jobs clearly did, and wanted people with that level of commitment. Can't
fault him for trying to find people willing to give him their lives.

~~~
dvhh
My point is that, that was one of the reason he want a sanctioned biography,
so that his children (we can defined children as being the generation living
with ubiquitous Apple product such as the iPhone of the iPod, but I will stick
to the family definition, adopted like he was or blood related ) know him
([http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046367/Steve-
Jobs-b...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046367/Steve-Jobs-
biography-Apple-boss-authorised-book-children.html)), he sacrificed his family
life for his job.

He did great

------
hdeshev
I'd think all those Foxconn workers need a similar inspiration plaque. They
don't play it safe too, you know.

------
Swizec
Honest question: is it _really_ possible to do that sort of work as a cog
inside a huge corporation?

I'm asking because I'm looking at very likely being gobbled up by such a large
corporation ...

~~~
ralfd
Apple is famously lean. The Safari version which shipped with the original
iPad 2010 was done by only two people. I find that remarkable.

But I too wonder how it is to work there. From other companies like Google or
Microsoft there are more stories available, from the hiring process to rants
from happy or disgruntled employees. Compared to that Apple is even post-Steve
an enigmatic black box. Like, how many hacker news comments are there in which
the user is outing herself as an engineer at Apple? I don't remember ever
reading one.

~~~
CoolGuySteve
If you go back through my comment history you'll see that I've written a few,
but I left for the same reasons as the negative responses here.

The company was making billions and I didn't even have stock options, whereas
the executive team was getting paid several thousand times as much me. They
always said "our pay is competitive with the valley", but it didn't feel
right. It came out later that Apple and other Silicon Valley firms were
involved in an illegal wage fixing agreement.

As an immigrant, I can't start my own business in the US so I went into
finance, where the employees are generally more cognisant of their market
value. I got a 50% base-pay and 125% overall increase right off the bat as
finance is desperate for anyone who is genuinely passionate about technology.

~~~
mahyarm
Do you have a blog post about your transition to finance and the differences
in working and living conditions?

~~~
CoolGuySteve
No, I've never had an employer that allowed blogging. And even then, I'm not
sure I'd be comfortable with the attention given the notoriety of my previous
employers.

All I can say is that if you have a choice between a large investment bank and
a hedge fund, always go with the hedge fund. They are more agile, more casual,
and there's a more direct link between your activities and the organization's
profit. Overall, it is more similar to tech.

------
nhangen
As someone who is currently working in an organization that doesn't offer me
that sort of fulfillment, I'd love to be working for Apple and receiving that
on day 1.

Not everyone is going to be an entrepreneur, fewer of us will be successful
entrepreneurs. If we are going to work for someone else, it's nice to be able
to do something we can be proud of. I imagine that working for Apple makes
that possible.

------
hsshah
Nice way to inspire new hires. Like it.

However, I worry about Apple lawyers tracking down the person who uploaded
this and offer a cease and desist instead of new hire orientation!

------
jaimzob
Thoroughly depressed by the responses here - especially on a site that prides
itself (or used to) on being more nuanced and intelligent than average. If you
don't like the message then fine, it's a little saccharine for my taste, but
it doesn't make Apple a 'soulless' company, it doesn't make Apple customers
empty-headed morons suffering from "stockholm syndrome", and snarking at it
does not elevate you above those people who do believe in the message. Quite
the opposite.

------
blinkingled
Reading the comments, a question just struck me - honestly how many of the
really competent people (the ones who make real difference in the world) think
about what corporation they are willing to work for and on what grounds?

Brad Fitzpatrick (memcached fame) for instance mentions this in the Android
performance related video -
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=c4znvD-7VDA#t=67s)
\- believes in open source, doesn't want Android to fail due to responsiveness
issues - that's his motivation.

What might be the motivations of great people lately working for Apple - they
can make a great product anywhere, why with Apple?

~~~
webwright
"they can make a great product anywhere, why with Apple?"

How many software/hardware companies are making great products? I'm an Apple
user (though I very much dislike the behavior of the company), but I'm hard-
pressed to name any company building better products than Apple. Or even name
many that are in the neighborhood.

~~~
blinkingled
Well, Apple is sum of its parts - it's the people that make Apple into what
they are. So presumably they can build great products under different
corporation? I can think of the money problem - if a great product requires
the kind of money that only Apple can afford - but how many great products
require that kind of money?

~~~
wrs
Oh, if only that were true. Great people can build great products only in a
corporation whose culture allows (or, ideally, encourages) that to happen.
Money is a lot easier to find than culture and commitment.

------
siculars
"... sacrifice a weekend ..."

Is that so? Ya, I don't think so. Show me the money.

~~~
Zr40
It's about the work you would sacrifice a weekend for, not about sacrificing
weekends.

~~~
siculars
I read it differently. To me it reads as though they want you to gladly give
them more of your only finite resource. If it were as you suggest, there are
better ways to say so. Words mater.

------
buster
Wow.. that just sounds like "we expect you work over hours and weekends"..
just sugar coated with nice words.

------
theorique
Apple is a cult? I believe it.

Not that I'm complaining, as I type this on my MacBook Pro, with my iPhone
beside it and my iPad 3 and iPod Nano in the backpack on the floor.

Cult or not, they make high quality products at high prices.

I've drunk the Kool-Aid just like many of you.

~~~
thatjoshguy
> I've drunk the Kool-Aid just like many of you.

There's a difference between drinking the Kool-Aid and knowing why people
drink the Kool-Aid

~~~
theorique
True. I respect what they have created, even as I'm skeptical of some of the
aspects of it (walled gardens, etc).

The fact that I'm able to use a Unix workstation - that also runs common
office apps (MSFT, etc) for interoperability with the non-hacker world -
solidified my (guarded, skeptical) loyalty to the Apple platform.

Their "one way to do it" approach can be exasperating but it's generally a
smart and lucrative business strategy.

------
nollidge
My grandpa used to say: The thanks is in the paycheck.

You want my weekends? Fuck you, pay me.

~~~
jopt
That just means you're not doing the sort of work you'd sacrifice a weekend
for. Why is everyone in this thread boasting about this?

~~~
jarek
What kind of work would you sacrifice a weekend for?

Edit: I mean specifically.

~~~
Karunamon
Something interesting and with potential. The same reason any hacker willingly
takes on any project.

Find what you love to do, and then find a way to get paid doing it.

~~~
jarek
Sorry, I meant specifically, as in a specific field/project jopt would
sacrifice a weekend for.

Working weekends seems like a good way to not get fully paid for doing what
you love to do.

~~~
Karunamon
Then it would be different each person. I've blown more than one weekend on a
couple of interesting Ruby issues which were semi-related to my employment.

What it comes back to though, is if you have the right value of "love to do",
the pay becomes secondary to the problem. This doesn't mean that you let a
company walk all over you of course, but that you are having a good time cash
or no cash.

Generally one should expect to be compensated appropriately for weekend work
:)

------
lionelhutz1
Let me tell you an unfortunate truth: Think of everyone you really respect.
Really look up to. Every one of them are risk takers. At some point, they
jumped in the deep end. Those who play it safe go nowhere. Apple knows that in
order to lead, they need those kind of people. If that isn't you, fine. Go
work for Sun. Or RIM. Or Nokia. Or Yahoo.

------
lionelhutz1
Ah, the smell of do-gooders in the morning.

One day you all will learn that there is no shortage of people who think they
deserve the fruits of your labor, through no work of their own. They will not
give you the option of supporting the needy voluntarily, through charity. They
will seize your money, by force, by a willing government eager to buy their
votes with the sweat of your hard work. Once you eek out a successful living
where you actually pay real taxes, you will begin to grow frustrated with the
lack of control that you will have with your own money. But even if you don't.
Who the hell do you think you are to tell me that my money, which I work for,
belongs to someone else? Its quite ironic and hypocritical to say that wanting
to keep one's own money is greed, but wanting to take someone else's money by
force is justice.

------
m0skit0
Meh, useless blabla from big corps. The real meaning: "devote your a __to the
company, and maybe we'll consider sharing some of our extraordinary benefits".

------
djt
I think a lot of the comments here show that there is a large number of people
that are pissed off because they work for a company and feel devalued.

I can identify with this statement and Apple trying to reiterate their core
values to new staff. Sure you may not hit the mark 100% of the time, but
surely they would have trouble retaining staff if they are lying.

I also think that this whole "Profit Margin" bashing needs to stop. Yes they
make large margins, no they don't profit share with most of their staff. It's
the way almost every business works. If you disagree then I encourage you to
start your own company and give it a shot rather then shouting abuse from the
sidelines.

------
jwingy
Despite everyone's dislike of this, you have to think of this from the
company's perspective. What's the cost of producing this? If they get even one
sucker to buy into it, it'll have already paid for itself many times over.

~~~
dsirijus
...and if someone doesn't buy it, they've lost a smart person who sees through
bs.

------
dsirijus
Come to think of it, all this sounds pretty pyramid scheme-ish.

Recruit others to sacrifice weekends on vague promises of money and self-
fulfillment. Wash them so they tell around how awesome it is to work in such
manner and for such a great employer.

Iterate.

~~~
Tycho
Good thing that brainwashing is so easy these days.

------
kellishaver
In my head, that letter was narrated by Richard Dreyfuss as I read it. It
feels very much like their advertizing. My gut reaction would be to
simultaneously be excited about the possibilities and worried over what I had
gotten myself into, since i was clearly being sold to in such a manner. That's
pretty much what I imagine working at Apple is like, though - potentially
awesome, fun, exciting, and interesting work, stressful, difficult, and
somewhat abusive company culture and demands. So, I guess maybe it's accurate.

------
lionelhutz1
That's the great thing about a free market. You are free to do whatever you
want. If working at Apple is such a piss-poor experience, and you are certain
that your talents are soooo valuable to the world, then don't work at Apple
and take your amazing abilities elsewhere. Certainly their must be hundreds of
companies just dyyyiiing to get their hands on your unmatched grey matter. So
quit bitching and work somewhere else.

~~~
chauzer
No one is this thread is complaining about themselves working at Apple because
they don't believe in the company's treatment of their employees and their
general business practices. They all already work somewhere else because of
this.

------
adamio
Since this message is directed to new hires, probably in a new-hire
orientation, I don't see a problem. New hires know exactly what they're
getting into with Apple, at this point. At least this message has more soul
and honesty than "we're a people company". Also, isn't it saying you're not a
cog here. If that's a flat out lie, then ok, but its a nice thought.

------
baotiao
Work is just part of life, not all.

------
navs
Seems like the kind of message you want to see on your first day or during a
recruitment drive. I'm sure the ecstasy of the moment wears off after a while
as the reality of a business/work environment settles in.

------
hownottowrite
Wait a minute... Is that a tear-stain on the word "anywhere"?

------
sakopov
I don't see anything wrong with Apple doing this. I mean, you have to make new
folks feel welcome and like they've made a good decision. Keep in mind though,
Apple is a corporation and as one the only thing they care about is profits
and the only people they care about is the executive committee. It's just like
any other big corp.

------
podperson
I should note that the person who posted this thought it was inspiring.

------
ThomPete
The day that any other company is even able to remotely make such a down to
earth note and yet so prosaic the negative comments will make sense.

------
Gal3rielol
some people are so mean. It is just a inspirational note. someone behaves like
apple owe him a lot.

------
salimmadjd
And the person got fired on his first day after sharing "company's secret"

------
adamtj
That's some pretty bad typography. Is that really from Apple?

------
maeon3
Man, every post I'm reading is negative, it's just a motivational poster, I
liked it. You only have on life, give it 100%. Whatever you are doing, do it
like you only have one day left to do it with.

I'm disappointed that HN would blow out of proportion the one cloud on the
beautiful day.

~~~
praptak
> it's just a motivational poster

Here's my favourite quote about motivational posters, DeMarco & Lister
"Peopleware":

 _"These motivational accessories, as they are called (including slogan coffee
mugs, plaques, pins, key chains, and awards), are a triumph of form over
substance. They seem to extol the importance of Quality, Leadership,
Creativity, Teamwork, Loyalty, and a host of other organizational virtues. But
they do so in such simplistic terms as to send an entirely different message:
Management here believes that these virtues can be improved with posters
rather than by hard work and managerial talent. Everyone quickly understands
that the presence of the posters is a sure sign of the absence of hard work
and talent."_

More on this:

 _"Motivational accessories are phony enough to make most people's skin crawl.
They do harm in healthy organizations. The only place where they do no harm is
where they are ignored—as in companies where the harm was done long, long ago
and people have ceased to register any further decline."_

~~~
raverbashing
Yes, if you go to eBay and order a couple of motivational posters this will
only lower morale. Everybody will notice the BS

But this is something different. It's what the company truly believes. Or do
you see something not matching Apple's beliefe there?

If you don't believe that, you certainly won't be a good fit.

Now, RedHat can put a poster like "The Power is in the Community" and if you
don't like or understand that you certainly won't be able to blend in. Even if
you're management.

Now, do you think Google could honestly put a poster "Don't be evil" today?

~~~
Karunamon
>Now, do you think Google could honestly put a poster "Don't be evil" today?

Sure. What has Google done that's evil?

Difficulty: Mistakes aren't evil, neither is advertising.

------
twinturbo
Inspire your self. This is bullshit.

------
sodelate
i find it very cool

~~~
mcantelon
right on bro

