
The Relationship Between Intelligence and Anxiety - amelius
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269637/
======
btilly
_We have demonstrated in a previous study that a high degree of worry in
patients with generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) correlates positively with
intelligence and that a low degree of worry in healthy subjects correlates
positively with intelligence._

Much simpler alternate hypothesis: Generalized Anxiety Disorder is more
accurately diagnosed in intelligent people.

(As for the study, the small sample size etc makes it an object lesson into
how to create a study that won't replicate. Why is this on HN?)

~~~
hanniabu
As somebody whom gets anxiety, my assumption was always that more intelligent
people aren't ignorant to the likes of science and such and therefore realize
the gravity of possibly scenarios.

Few examples....I got a decent gash on my leg a few months ago. I was going
out kayaking with some friends so I shaved my leg around the cut and wrapped
it up nice and good with a duct tape bandage and water proof tape over that. I
am not about to chance getting a flesh eating bacteria or something weird like
that. Practically costs nothing to take a precaution. Another example, wearing
a condom, even if you're in a relationship with the same person and you've
both been tested. What if birth control doesn't work? What if she had
unprotected sex with someone else? Not that I don't trust her, I do, but what
if? I also get extreme FOMO when choosing what backend language to learn
(still haven't chosen after a few months). Sometimes when looking at the
documents for new libraries it takes me a few days to actually sit down to
look at them from the anxiety that maybe I'll be too stupid to understand the
docs. This leads to me sitting at the computer staring at the docs but not
actually reading because my mind is just in one huge clusterfuck looping
around these thoughts and thinking what if I follow the instructions wrong?
I'll have to start over and would have wasted time. Finally when I actually
start typing and doing stuff I have no problem. While I know I just have to
learn how to use these things once and I'll know it 'forever' and that just
sitting there is actually wasting more time than I would be if I had to stay
over 50 times, I just can't help it.

~~~
johnchristopher
I have a different outlook as someone whose life was crippled by anxiety.

Many times my opinion on varying matters is asked I am met with some
derogatory comments about how I only see the grim aspects of a given
situation.

When in truth, from my point of view at least, I simply seem to see a large
tree of possibilities of things that can go wrong or right. For instance,
regarding the positive and negative sides of buying a house, if I point out
the price, the distance to school/work and the condition of the roof it seems
like people blame me for pointing it out... like I was personally and
willingly trying to destroy the happiness the best case scenario would bring
if they bought it on the spot. And it rarely fails: my objections are only met
with more positive aspects in the form of "but this is okay because...". It's
like most people don't want to see the whole picture, only the positive
elements of the whole picture.

Now I try to grow up and dodge those situations or let requests for advices
pass by.

But it's not about « intelligence », it's more about seeing the whole picture,
getting asked about it and being blamed for detailing the obvious (I know next
to nothing of carpentry or the real estate market beyond the obvious: "don't
buy a house on fire").

~~~
hanniabu
Lol I've been there, and being pinned as the Debbie downer or being called
paranoid because of it

------
dicroce
"We have demonstrated in a previous study that a high degree of worry in
patients with generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) correlates positively with
intelligence and that a low degree of worry in healthy subjects correlates
positively with intelligence."

Woot! As a happy person who doesn't worrry much I was pleasantly surprised to
find out I'm not necessarily and idiot.

~~~
Nav_Panel
From the first sentence of the conclusion:

> It should be noted, however, that... the mean IQ for the GAD group was
> elevated in comparison to the control group (a mean of ∼119 versus a mean of
> ∼109). Further, the IQ means for both the GAD group and the control group
> were significantly higher than the average IQ of the general population
> (∼100). Results should thus be interpreted with the consideration that the
> study sample is non-representative of the general population.

~~~
benbreen
I've always wondered about this when talking to friends of mine who are
psychology grad students about the studies they work on. Since most of them
rely upon volunteers attracted via mechanisms like flyers put up on a
university campus or the raffle of a free iPad in a college town, aren't these
types of volunteer-based studies going to tell you a lot about college kids
and (potentially) very little about the general population?

~~~
sdoering
Exactly. And lots of studies (just hearsay) where smashed when trying to
replicate them with a sample that mimics the general population.

~~~
danieltillett
Lots of psychology studies have failed to be replicated even in college
students. The problem generally is not the population being studied, but the
small numbers and a lack of control for bias.

------
cellularmitosis
Ugh, they went out of their way to create a mobile interface which breaks
vertical scrolling (you have to hit the "next" button to see the next (non-
scrollable) page.

Guys, seriously, stop breaking the mobile web by "improving" it :(

~~~
rubyfan
I got downvoted for calling that out on one of their last articles. Side
scrolling is absolutely non-intuitive and painfully limits ones ability to
easily read an article on mobile. /ot

The article is interesting though in that it calls out with medical evidence a
correlation I think of as relatively obvious. I've met some seriously smart
people in the world with personality peculiarities that seem to stem from
anxiety.

~~~
wavefunction
Side-scrolling is shit. There, I said it.

------
Mandatum
The data behind this study is shoddy at best. Missing patients, sample size of
30 reduced due to environmental factors. As well as assuming IQ is an accurate
measurement of intelligence.

Would be interesting to look at education data against the same person's
mental health data on a massive scale. Wouldn't happen unless people opted in
to sharing.

~~~
cristianpascu
If one is drunk, driving a car increases your chances of dying. Having a fast
car will increase those chances too. :)

------
mijoharas
N = 44 and the authors are concluding two separate trends? (Positive
correlation in patients with GAD and negative in patients without). Since each
correlation only applies to the subset of people this is at best an N = 26
study. Seems like an interesting topic, but with a sample size so small I
struggle to believe (or disbelieve) any of the conclusions.

------
projektir
I think we need more data than that before we draw any conclusions. That's a
rather small sample size.

This reminds me of an excerpt from The Sports Gene about Met and Val alleles
in the COMT[1] gene, though:

"Cognitive testing and brain imaging studies have found that subjects with two
Met versions - both animals and humans - tend to do better and require less
metabolic effort for cognitive and memory tasks, but that they are also more
prone to anxiety and more sensitive to pain. Conversely, Val/Val carriers seem
to do slightly worse on cognitive tests that require rapid mental flexibility,
but may be more resilient to stress and pain."

[1]:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22530780](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22530780)

------
jamesrom
In summary:

Positive correlation: (Anxiety, Low Choline), Intelligence

Positive correlation: (No Anxiety, Normal Choline), Intelligence

~~~
mr-roboto
Does this mean that if I'm an intelligent worrier and take a choline
supplement then I can possibly get some relief?

~~~
suneilp
I noticed quite a change in mood when I started reintroducing foods with
choline into my diet. Of course, some of those foods have some other nutrients
that are harder to get. Eggs and beef were the main sources I targeted.

Obviously, overall diet, sleep, exercise, etc. etc. matters as well.

------
marincounty
I can honestly say anxiety ruined my life. Yea, I had some fun here, and
there, but anxiety really held me back.

I all stemmed from one huge panic attack on Christmas Eve. I remember coming
home from my father's house. Normal Irish blue collar Christmas. We were all
drinking. Not drunk--Irish don't get drunk--we can handle the booze--with the
exception of our livers. We we just having a good time. I did have a cup of
coffee before I drove home.

I got home, and went to the bathroom--looked into the mirror. I was thinking
about the enevilibility of death. I thought about Christmas card my dad gave
me. "Happy Christmas! Doctor, PhD. Masters, BS, etc." My father didn't approve
of my education. He didn't feel anyone who was in school added to society.
What's ironic is I kinda agreed with him, and validated his views--just to
please the man. I use to tell him--all this school--all this money, and I look
back and maybe I had eight amazing classes in college. (I don't know why my
father didn't want me to go to school, he didn't pay a dime. I sometimes thing
he wanted me to be just as happy, and fulfilled as he was in life, but no
more?

I thought about a student who died of a cerebral hemorrhage. I thought about
the fragility of the human anatomy system. I thought "What makes me different
than the guy who popped a vessel riding his bike, with his cute wife?" (Edipal
issues too?)

I picked at a pimple? I noticed my hair did look poofy. My sister was big on
hair conditioners.

It was around 12:30 p.m.--and click. I thought I heard an artery in my head
explode.

The room started to change dimensions. The room became larger--then smaller.
The wall paper started to move slightly. My body went hay wire. I was a
nervous wreck. An fews hour of hell went by, and I somehow got to sleep.

The next morning I woke up, and at least I was still on this earth. I walked
down the hallway, and the nervous started up.

The nervousness went on for years, and years. I got to a point where I could
leave the house, or deal with humans, without two 187ml splits of wine.

I did a year's worth of therapy. I found a therapist out of the Yellow Pages.
I paid for the therapy with the rest of my student loans, and some nefarious
activities.

The therapy did nothing other than squash the thought, "Maybe I should have
seen an Therapist?" The therapy actually did some damage--I believe, but you
should probally find out for yourselfs? (Oh, yea most doctors won't give you
any drug without you wasting time with a therapist. That is if your not
connected, or come from a wealthy family. It's a hellish system.)

I finally found a Psychiatrist whom would give me more that a weeks worth of
Valium. He was my fifth Psychiatrist. He gave me Klonopin. It really helped,
but I'm still on it 20 years later. I believe it's a good drug though. It has
a long half life, and is not expensive anymore.

While the drug helped--it only helped a bit.

I still needed to drink in order to feel straight.

Over the years I fried all the Hetro/tri-cyclic drugs; like Prozac, and Paxil,
elevil, etc. and at least ten others.

None of them worked in the slightest! They were all a waste of money, and time
for myself. I cried when I read that study on the history of Proxac, and what
Eli-Lilly did to deceive. Literally cried!

I should probally back up a bit. Right before the major panic attack, I was in
a graduate school. I had problems with the school, and some students. I didn't
feel they were being honest with themself's, or the science we were learning.
The school got their money, the students would all have good paying jobs in a
few years. It bothered me that no one was looking for the truth, or efficacy
of what they were learning. I learned then, and it still hold true; When it
comes to fininancial outlay, financial future--students and teachers go into
denial. They stop looking for the Truth. It's nothing new, it's called denial.
I didn't have that denial at the time. I was too focused on fining the truth,
and accepting its consequences. My personal life was not great, but I was
still seeing people. I wasen't happy, but who's happy in their 20's? I did
have few warning signs of potential problems ahead. I felt I might have a
brain tumor. (I had this weird head pain, since I left high school. Looking
back, it was all psychosomatic.) I further felt like I could prevent a serious
disease by being extremely healthy. I once got my total cholesterol down 120.

Back to hell, while the drug helped--it only helped a bit.

I still needed to drink in order to feel straight.

I don't have anything to say about anxiety. I know I have never met one other
person who had my exact symptomology. I've met some who were worse, and some
who just had one panic attack. When they do these studies; I wish they would
find people who really have these afflictions--I know it's hard, and not
financially feasible.

Anxiety, in some people, can ruin lives. I am close to being homeless because
of it. No--I'm not bad enough for disability. That's the rub. In some
situations I'm the best guy in the room. Other days, I can't walk into the
room. Mental illness is still hidden malady. How is some politician suspose to
understand what these malidities feel like when even health professionals
really don't seem to get it?

If you are suffering from anxiety, try to only drink to curb anxiety attacks.
Two/three drinks will usually stop an anxiety attack.

Don't become an alcoholic. Save that liver for rough patches ahead. You won't
be able to drink like your buddies. They don't need to drink to feel sane. The
anxiety symptoms will lessen with age. You life might be a shambles, but the
feelings just lesson. Hang in there. I sometimes feel life is just not worth
living, but something always brings me around. Not necessarily something--just
brain chemistry seems to come into start playing--nice, nice? Who knows--
sometimes I think they are focusing on the wrong organ. Maybe the adrenal
glands? Who knows?

The only benefit I can see of my psychological faults is I truly care about
anyone who's in pain. Before the breakdown, I didn't truely understand why
certain people lived the way they do. I didn't understand why he wasn't
working. Why isn't he making money. Making money is pretty easy for guys like
me? What's wrong with them? Or they lazy? Do that have delusions of grandure?

I now don't judge people like I use too. To be honest I was never that
critical of people. I'm just more understanding now. That whole, "Walk a mile
in a man's shoes." I truly think about that, if I about to cast judgment.

Good luck! Keep an eye out for that friend/family member who's in hell. Try to
be supportive?

Merry Christmas!

~~~
neuro_imager
I struggled with anxiety for several years (only realising in retrospect that
it was anxiety that was the principle source of my ills.)

I benefitted from an excellent, no BS therapist as well as finding the right
medication. It took me several tries to find a medication that made a
noticeable difference (the first three never helped and actually in some ways
made the situation worse. It also took several tries to find a therapist with
an approach that worked for me.

Don't give up. Find the right therapist and get help in finding the right
medication (this could take a whilst and you may go through several dead ends
before finding a solution but keep at it - its worth it.)

Good luck and all the best. Peace to you over Christmas.

~~~
neuro_imager
Also, some other pointers: \- Meds take a long time to work. Don't give up on
a drug until you've tried it for at least several weeks. \- Same for therapy,
don't leave a therapist because you have one bad session or they say something
that irks you.

Some other things that helped me: \- Minimise negative influences in your life
(this includes family members). End toxic relationships. Only be with people
that lift you up. \- Find fulfilling work. Even if it means taking a pay cut.
Doing work you don't enjoy with people you don't like will slowly eat away at
your soul. \- Stop drinking coffee and minimise caffeine intake. \- Get plenty
of sleep. Sleep deprivation only makes things worse. \- Minimise alcohol
intake and avoid recreational drug intake. \- Avoid Benzodiazepines - like
alcohol they may help in the short term but will hit you hard on the rebound
in the long term.

------
rinze
I have only read the text diagonally while looking for some keywords, but my 2
cents: in many cases, when a neuroscience study claims to be able to "predict"
something, they mean "var X and var Y show a strong correlation". Actual
predictive power is not checked unless there is a real test set that is left
out of the training phase and all that (cross-validation, etc).

When this article claims:

> When data from GAD patients and healthy controls were combined, relatively
> low CHO __predicted __both relatively higher IQ and worry scores.

... it is actually saying that CHO is inversely correlated with higher IQ and
worry scores.

(Unless, again, as noted above, they are cross-validating in a way that was
not obvious to me when I checked for it.)

------
treenyc
Ignorance is bliss!

