
Show HN: Free and open source page builder for WordPress - andrewworsfold
http://gettailor.com
======
dutchbrit
There's a small bug when your screen isn't fully stretched open - the download
for free falls behind the screenshot (see link below).

[http://i.imgur.com/dtbCvDu.png](http://i.imgur.com/dtbCvDu.png)

Do you have a sample site that was built using this plugin? And how does it
handle css/styles? Does it create .css files or does it inject CSS directly in
the DOM?

Looks really nice! Have you seen
[http://elementor.com/](http://elementor.com/) and how does it compare to
Tailor?

~~~
andrewworsfold
Thanks for pointing that out! Should've spent more time on the landing page ;)
I like the idea of hosting a bunch of sample pages built using the plugin too.
I'll get on that.

The plugin generates CSS based on the options end users select when
configuring their elements. These rules are combined and added to the page in
a separate stylesheet. When "Tailoring" a page, dynamic stylesheets are
managed using JavaScript. It's also possible for developers to utilise media
queries (thought that's probably a little off topic). I've got a little info
about that on the Help Center:
[http://support.gettailor.com](http://support.gettailor.com).

I know page builder plugins are a dime a dozen nowadays (both free and
premium). The idea with this plugin is to simplify the process of creating
layouts for users who want to use their favourite theme. It focusses more on
usability rather than cramming as many "elements" in as possible. I'm also a
big believer in WordPress' philosophy of "decisions not options" and the
separation of concerns between plugins and themes; this plugin aims to try and
strike the right balance between those things.

The result is (hopefully) something that does what it does and does it well
out-of-the-box and can be easily extended by plugin and theme authors. I see
this a key differentiator with Tailor.

To answer your question though: there are some obvious similarities between
this and Elementor. A key difference is the role that content plays in Tailor
(being the core element and something you can move around within the page in
its own right). Elements typically contain and style content, with some (like
carousels and tabs) utilising JavaScript to change the behaviour. You can pull
content from a carousel, for example, into a hero section and have those style
changes immediately take effect.

I hope that answers the question somewhat :)

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webtechgal
Great, congrats!!!

Providentially, I was in the process of landing a WordPress dev + SEO/SMO job
just around the time you were posting this. I am going to work on this over
the weekend and will most certainly give Tailor a try and hopefully, have some
feedback for you early next week.

Edit: Thus far, I've been a big fan of the SiteOrigin Page Builder so it would
be interesting to see how Tailor stacks up.

~~~
andrewworsfold
Thanks! I look forward to hearing your feedback!

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pbowyer
Congratulations on releasing - it looks very nice. Can you compare and
contrast how it differs to others (e.g. Visual Composer) - how does it store
the elements?

~~~
andrewworsfold
Thanks!

Element data (or models) are stored as meta data and the content generated by
Tailor is saved as HTML within the post (with a few exceptions for dynamic
elements that use shortcodes). The benefit to this ofcourse is that when you
disable the plugin you're not left with shortcodes in the place of content.
This is one way in which the plugin differs from something like Visual
Composer.

Conceptually it's very similar to other plugins: drag and drop elements on the
page, configure them to your liking. Differences I'm proud of are the way in
which rows and columns work (drag elements to the left or right of an existing
element), the primacy of content (see my other comment), the way templates are
managed (saving, importing, exporting and adding to the page) and the revision
history panel.

There's a lot more under the hood and a lot of time and effort has gone into
it, so if you're interested I hope you'll check it out - it's free after all
:D

~~~
webtechgal
> ...the content generated by Tailor is saved as HTML within the post (with a
> few exceptions for dynamic elements that use shortcodes)

So, does that means that if I don't use any of those shortcode-dependent
elemensts, the pages/posts I build with Tailor will retain the full original
design even when I disable (or altogether delete) the plug-in?

If so, you ARE my hero!!

(In case anyone is wondering why I would need to disable/delete the plug-in,
the answer is speed/performance gain. With more and more people becoming aware
of the site loading speed as one of the SEO factors and of tools like Google
PageSpeed Insights/GTMetrix/Pingdom etc., I have been observing an increasing
demand for loading speed optimization over the last year or so. IMO, the
excessive importance people are attaching to the scores as reported by these
services is blown a bit out of proportion, but that is possibly a topic for
another thread.)

~~~
andrewworsfold
Content is maintained separate from the plugin, but Tailor does provide it's
own set of minimal styles for elements. The main problem it solves it getting
"locked in" to a plugin (i.e., being left with nothing but shortcodes when the
plugin is disabled), but the element styles would no longer be applied when
the plugin is disabled.

That's an interesting thought though and something I'll explore. If it can be
achieved without hacking WordPress or introducing other issues then I will
introduce it. One of the great things about Tailor at the moment is that it
doesn't mess with WordPress and I haven't had to release a single maintenance
release to support new versions of WordPress.

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michaelmior
This looks really cool. A minor suggestion though. You might want to avoid a
screenshot of the GH page on the site. This quickly becomes outdated. For
example, the repo already has 4x more stars than the image shows :)

~~~
bdcravens
You can put a live widget for showing stars at
[https://buttons.github.io/](https://buttons.github.io/)

~~~
andrewworsfold
Thanks to both of you! I'll update the landing page based on your
recommendations.

------
andrewworsfold
Hi all - given the timezone (I live in AU) my responses will probably slow
down. Please go ahead and post any other questions or comments you have as
it's been great to hear them and I will respond ASAP.

~~~
enzanki_ars
A little confused as to how this integrates with existing sites. Does it
require usage of a new theme, or can you integrate it with your current theme?
If integration is not possible, does it support plugins like WooCommerce?

~~~
andrewworsfold
Tailor works with any theme. Plugins like WooCommerce that do something
specific (like ecommerce) can easily be supported. In fact, I have created a
simple WooCommerce extension for Tailor (also free) for people who want to
manage products.

~~~
enzanki_ars
Thank you for the information. A potential client of mine has an interest in
WooCommerce and am looking at using Tailor, but I can not find any information
on the Tailor-WooCommerce plugin. All I found was [https://github.com/andrew-
worsfold/tailor-woocommerce](https://github.com/andrew-worsfold/tailor-
woocommerce). Am I missing something on Wordpress's plugin directory?

~~~
andrewworsfold
The initial version of the WooCommerce extension is now up in the GitHub
repository. Shhhh!! It's still a secret and won't be in the WordPress plugin
repository for a day or two ;)

~~~
enzanki_ars
Thank you! Looking forward to trying it out and hopefully will get a chance to
contribute back to both projects!

~~~
andrewworsfold
That'd be awesome. Here's a (very) brief writeup of the element that this
initial version of the extension provides if you're interested:
[https://medium.com/@tailorwp/drag-and-drop-your-way-to-an-
on...](https://medium.com/@tailorwp/drag-and-drop-your-way-to-an-online-
store-1f9837eb8167#.b3lnjqk3x)

------
marpstar
Is this simliar to Visual Composer? Seems like it takes it to the next step.
I've been installing VC for customers for the past few months with much
success, but would love to move to something OSS.

~~~
Roritharr
I've once done a bigger project with Visual Composer and hated every part of
it. I bet the WP Community will rejoice if they get a better solution for
this.

~~~
andrewworsfold
I'd love to know what the biggest issues you faced were. Easy of use (for both
users and developers) is a key goal with this plugin. The decision to have
portfolio and ecommerce (i.e., WooCommerce support) as separate free
extensions is for this reason; not everyone needs or wants those things
cluttering up the main plugin.

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Macuyiko
So a competitor for [https://www.layerswp.com/](https://www.layerswp.com/) ?

~~~
andrewworsfold
I guess so. They both set out to achieve the same sort of goal, but obviously
have slightly different approaches.

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allendoerfer
Looks nice, will probably try it out. (How) do you plan to monetize this?
Looks very well rounded for an open source side project.

~~~
andrewworsfold
I might consider releasing a paid extension or two, depending on demand.
Perhaps a theme that really makes the most of Tailor's feature set (though to
be honest I'd probably just end up releasing that for free too :P). It's
important to note though that Tailor itself is and always will be free and
features will never be removed. In fact it will only get better with time.

------
_RPM
I think it is odd that the title has the string "free and open source"
prepended to it. It seems like that isn't the primary feature.

~~~
hellofunk
A lot of Wordpress stuff out there is premium and rather expensive, so to see
quality Wordpress tools that are free is indeed an important feature. Most
free Wordpress stuff is ugly and useless (except for Wordpress itself, of
course).

~~~
bdcravens
In the WordPress world, it seems that "free" carries a lot more weight than
"open source". While there are many who care, there's also a ton of folks
making a living (or just running their own website) by connecting together
plugins. I'd make "open source" a bullet point, not a title-level feature.

~~~
andrewworsfold
I agree. Given this particular forum I thought the free and open source aspect
of it would be more interesting, but you're right: it's definitely not the
drawcard of Tailor. That said, the benefits of it being free are obvious and
being open source people can get involved and help shape it (like WordPress!).

------
mxuribe
I haven't dug into the wordpress world for a couple of years, but this sounds
interesting! Kudos for rolling this out!

~~~
andrewworsfold
Thanks. Much appreciated!

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martin_a
I will give it a try in the next week or so. Always good to give customers a
little help with creating pages...

~~~
andrewworsfold
Great! I'm definitely keen to receive any suggestions or feedback you have
(hi@gettailor.com or the community forum at support.gettailor.com) and the
project's up on GitHub too if you want to get involved
([https://github.com/andrew-worsfold/tailor](https://github.com/andrew-
worsfold/tailor)).

------
maxencecornet
Is Tailor made to build wordpress themes or single page on an already existing
wordpress website ?

~~~
andrewworsfold
It's used to build page layouts using an existing theme (any theme). Certain
effects would depend on the theme used. For example, a full-width slider or
hero section would require a page without a sidebar.

~~~
sandGorgon
actually this is my question as well - what theme engine does this support ?
or is this your own theme engine ?

seems to me you would ordinarily have a "supported theme engines" list.

~~~
andrewworsfold
It should support any theme engine, if my understanding of what a theme engine
is is correct. Did you have an example of one?

~~~
sandGorgon
Genesis
[http://my.studiopress.com/themes/genesis/](http://my.studiopress.com/themes/genesis/)

~~~
andrewworsfold
Yep. I've tested Genesis 2.3.0 using a few child themes are everything works
fine!

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asimuvPR
One of the few projects that prompt me to stop my current task to tinker with
it. Great job! :)

~~~
andrewworsfold
Awesome! If it does look like something you'd like to use then I'd love to get
any feedback and suggestions you have. You can email (hi@tailor.com), jump on
GitHub or leave a note in our forum which can be found at
[http://support.gettailor.com](http://support.gettailor.com).

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artur_makly
+1 for video demo. how is it better than VisualComposer?

~~~
guilamu
First, it's free.

~~~
andrewworsfold
That's definitely an advantage. I'd recommend using it to see how it stacks up
(you've got nothing to lose). Tailor aims to be easier to use, particularly
for users who are already familiar with WordPress. I'm not personally a fan of
builders that make you first select a "column structure"; with Tailor you just
drag elements relative to one another and dragging to the left or right
creates (or adds) a column. Of course you can then resize then using a simple
drag action.

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huxingyi
Looks beautiful, nice job!

~~~
andrewworsfold
Thanks! Glad you like it.

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orixilus
how hard would it be to use this without wordpress?

~~~
bdcravens
Quite, given that it plugs into Wordpress's hooks. In theory you could extract
the code and repurpose, but alot of trouble.

~~~
orixilus
thanks. do you know of anything similar (open source) which doesn't require
WP?

~~~
andrewworsfold
This is a WordPress plugin and is therefore dependent on WordPress as the
earlier poster mentioned. You're certainly welcome to port the code to some
other platform, but there would be a lot of work involved in that. I'm afraid
I'm not aware of similar products that don't use WordPress.

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burnbabyburn
will it support the new shortcode syntax in 4.7?

~~~
andrewworsfold
Yes, that's definitely going to be supported.

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benmarks
Ugh, really wish that weren't a GNU license in there.

~~~
yarrel
Really glad there's a license that protects my freedom to use the software in
there.

~~~
benmarks
Of course, wasn't saying that there shouldn't be a license. This is an
interesting cultural lens for me, having been heads-down in the Magento
(OSL/AFL core) world for so long. Seems GNU is common for Wordpress, plugin
authors can use MIT, but it seems not as common.

