
Ask HN: Should computer games be built on Vim style keybindings? - philonoist
In a hypothetical scenario, since Vim is praised for its multi functionality and speed,
what are the cons except keyboard might get damaged?<p>How would navigation work?<p>What would be the possible mistakes a player can make after getting familiar with keybindings?<p>Why is the role of mouse not eliminated only in gaming? Instead, it got more sophisticated and much more demanded for this use.
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jmts
I think perhaps you are confusing the idea of VIM's input paradigm being
efficient for text editing, with the idea of VIM's input paradigm being
efficient in general. Video games that have adopted the use of a mouse have
not done so for lack of a keyboard - they have done so because the combination
of a mouse _with_ keyboard is more powerful than one or the other. They're
using the right tool for the job.

A mouse's strength comes from its ability to encode movement. A keyboard can
do this also, but it requires many more inputs to achieve the same result.
Consider that for every unit we wish to move a pointer, we need to either
press a key once, or move a mouse 1mm. If I wish to move the pointer 100
units, I need to press a key 100 times. Whether I choose to do this repeatedly
or by using the system's key repeat feature to make it happen, it will take
some time. With a mouse, I just need to move the mouse 10cm. One movement of
the mouse is worth 100 keystrokes. Increasing the efficiency of the keyboard
requires added complexity. In the case of VIM it might translate to something
like "100j". But continually typing "100j45k10l" etc is not beneficial for
fast paced FPSs.

A mouse's disadvantage while editing text, is the requirement for both hands
to be at the keyboard at the same time in order to type anything moderately
complex at a reasonable speed. For a user with a taste for speed and
efficiency, the act of moving a hand to the mouse and back can take what feels
like a lifetime. VIM's power isn't in its ability to point better than a mouse
- it is in describing the actions required to modify text in a manner so
efficiently that the act of using the mouse becomes less efficient.

~~~
philonoist
Thank you!

I was thinking of a simple game, sort of like Vimium where if you pressed 'f'
you'd get all the keybindings mapping the objects in the virtual world. From
what I understand, the disadvantage lies more with keyboard and VIM won't be
of any substantial help.

I didn't consider a sister perspective - -Moving the mouse over a mouse pad
(2D) to make a gun point all the directions in 3D. This illusion can become
much more complicated if a target and the cross needed to adjust according to
distance between me and the target

\- Finding a target and pointing to it with a gun wouldn't be much fun if we'd
make VIM to find it for us( like how it does in Vimium on a web page) where
you'd just press 'f'. Even if that wasn't the case, keying in the (x,y,z in
metre) to fire shot at a particular location every time we make a wrong guess
would be frustrating.

\- Pulling trigger of a gun and pausing to take my time feels much more
controlled and exciting in pressing the left click of a mouse to our needed
pace where in that instant we can decide if we want to save ammo or fire some
more shots.

\- What if the other guy keyed in correctly and you died or nobody standing
against each other is able to throw granades at each other to kill? I'd
imagine someone throw the keyboard off just because they made a silly mistake
of wrong parameters.

\- Combining above three, I'd have to wait until 8 bullets are emptied (if on
VIM I pressed '8j') and can't re-adjust to fit more with the target while I
can simultaneously fire shots like I could do in mouse. This would make me
feel slow instead of VIM's supposed quickness.

I didn't even consider head-shots and all other bonus point actions.

The above points are just with respect to a gun. What about other hand held
objects like snipers, dynamites, bags,UI/UX options etc.? It would feel like
one man making a factory work. The game wouldn't reach its end goal of making
a user enjoy.

A mouse, like you said, augments many more parameters of reality to operate
simultaneously making it more closer to reality. I get this epiphany as I
write - Virtual reality is the way to go instead of mouse/keyboard/VIM centric
as it makes the user, centric.

My question, I realize is as stupid as it gets. Games have already
incorporated enough keybindings like hotkeys,shortcuts and cheat codes(
although discouraged) to make user comfortable with just one hand on keyboard(
and other on mouse). VIM or any other style wouldn't add anything to begin
with?

------
weinzierl
To improve my Vim skills I once patched the Boulder Dash clone that comes with
Debian to use hjkl.

Didn’t work well, because in this game you often need to press two keys
simultaneously. In the normal touch typing position h and j share the index
finger, so you can’t press them at the same time without leaving the normal
position.

You don’t have this problem neither with WASD nor the inverse T-Shaped cursor
keys because you can press all the useful two-key combinations conveniently
with just three fingers (no thumb, no pinky needed). You can’t press up and
down at once, but that doesn’t make sense anyway.

