
Bash and Windows Subsystem for Linux Demo [video] - nailer
https://channel9.msdn.com/events/Windows/Windows-Developer-Day-Creators-Update/Developer-tools-and-updates#time=17m30s
======
nailer
This is coming to Windows stable in April:

\- vt sequences fixed (so stuff like colored output, midnight commander, etc
work and the terminal doesn't screw up)

\- Elixir and Go work

\- Also Postgres and MySQL

\- You can launch Windows apps from bash.

\- inotify works

\- Visual Studio can compile with GNU/Linux C/C++ tools, gdb, linker etc

There's some recent fast ring info on:
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/01/09/bash...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/01/09/bash-
in-windows-insider-build-15002-many-fixes-but-a-couple-of-bugs/)

From reading that blog, and also:
[https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/111#issuec...](https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/111#issuecomment-238302654)
it sounds as if the Windows console (separate from bash, openssh, powershell
etc) is being entirely refactored for creators update. So those fixes should
also help powershell, ConEmu and a bunch of other common windows command line
stuff.

~~~
akulbe
So VS can do C/C++ compilation now. I wonder if they will extend VS to work
with other higher-level languages like Ruby and Python (et. al.) ?

It would be nice to work from Windows but build for Linux that way, for other
languages too.

~~~
ykl
Uh.... VS has always been able to do C/C++ compilation. Like... for decades
now? Just not with the standard Linux toolchain, but you've always been able
to build C/C++ projects on Windows.

~~~
netule
Not only that, but Visual Studio is based off Visual C++ in the first place.

------
yummyfajitas
I've been running windows (using WSL for most of my development) for a few
months and overall I'm very happy with it. Every non-GUI linux program I want
to run works just fine on WSL, with the sole exception of (beta software)
Urbit.

I do miss Xmonad-like window management, but windows does have shortcut keys
that do a good enough job. Emacs works perfectly well. And Anaconda
([https://www.continuum.io/downloads](https://www.continuum.io/downloads) ) is
actually a good native windows distribution of Python and Julia.

Cortana + voice recognition is actually pretty cool, I'm looking forward to
hacking on it when MS releases the dev kit.

So far, windows seems to be an acceptable Linux. I will probably stick with it
for a while, assuming I don't run into any crazy new blockers.

(I've been on Linux exclusively since 2001 except for a brief attempt to use
OS X around 2009. That experiment was less than successful:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1786930#1787411](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1786930#1787411)
)

~~~
bitwize
Emacs has one flaw for me under WSL: the janky Windows console doesn't pass
C-SPC. Meaning I have to bind set-mark-command to something else (like M-SPC),
or download and use wsltty (fork of mintty).

But other than that Emacs is fine, and a lot of Linux stuff (Node, mongo,
etc.) works great.

Who cares if Urbit doesn't work? :)

~~~
yummyfajitas
To be clear, I use one of the GUI versions of emacs for windows. C-spc works
fine there.

I'd like to play with Urbit - Yarvin and his goals are interesting enough that
I'm willing to spend a few hours playing around.

~~~
blaenk
Would you mind elaborating on what emacs in particular you're using? I use and
love emacs but unfortunately the times I've tried to use it on windows it's
been extremely unresponsive.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The "official" one:

[https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html#windows](https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html#windows)

~~~
blaenk
Woah I tried it again and it seems like it's working perfectly! It seems like
the initial release for windows wasn't compiled with optimizations, so perhaps
that's the issue I was observing.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/598iot/on_windows_em...](https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/598iot/on_windows_emacs_251_is_noticeably_slower_than/d9udxzf/)

------
OhSoHumble
The biggest problem I have with the WSL is that it is intrinsically tied to
stable Windows releases; there is no way to get incremental updates for Bash
on Windows unless you subscribe to the Windows Insider program, which is a way
of running prerelease versions of Windows.

So in order to get Linux features like inotify working you have to sacrifice
the stability of your operating system.

This looks like it'll be true till the end of time. Does your dev work depend
on bug fixes or certain syscall implementations? Well, either run an OS that
may or may not work at any given time _or_ wait several months for the next
release.

A couple weeks back I tried to give WSL a try but everything was broken.
Inotify prevents hot reloading, which really makes my life just dandy, so I
tried to transition to the insider program in order to get my fix. To my
chagrin, this caused Node to up and break on me. Like, full stop doesn't work
anymore.

I ended up going back to Linux. I really hope that developing on Windows
becomes something other than 'awful' \- for me at least - but I don't think
it's quite there yet.

~~~
tornadoboy55
Output from `bash --version` on macOS:

`GNU bash, version 3.2.57(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin16) Copyright (C)
2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.`

that's a 10yr old bash and there's barely any shell magic that you can do on
Linux that won't work on macOS. And since by far most devs use macOS, most
binaries support at least the macOS version of bash. All in all, no need to
worry :p

~~~
kupiakos
> by far most devs use macOS

I'm not sure about this - that seems too extreme of a statement. If there is
any winner, it's going to be Windows. IMO, Linux and macOS will be within 5
percentage points of each other. From what I've seen at university, it's
something like 60% Windows, ~20% macOS, ~20% Linux (usually Ubuntu). Much more
Linux/Mac in the "hackier" courses, usually with a slight majority to Macs.

Where can reliable statistics be found on this? HN isn't exactly indicative of
developers in general.

~~~
tornadoboy55
[http://eclecticist.co.uk/notes/appledesign/images/image12.jp...](http://eclecticist.co.uk/notes/appledesign/images/image12.jpg)

That's all I need to say about that.

As for the reasons.. Devs want a POSIX (macOS, Linux or BSD) system because
many of the utilities used are written for that, and much of the
infrastructure you will be working with in the future will also be POSIX. Of
all the POSIXes, macOS is by far the most capable and stable laptop OS.
Macbooks are still unrivaled, with only the Dell XPS range coming somewhat
close.

They are also the only company with both a solid phone and computer product,
meaning you get lots of ecosystem goodies (verify iCloud logins with a push
notification on your iPhone, Wi-Fi passwords entered on your MacBook instantly
work on your phone, 'instant hotspot', AirPods intelligent multi-pairing, etc)

And that may seem like I'm drinking the Apple kool-aid, but I'm not. The audio
quality on the AirPods is terrible. In fact, Apple has never produced anything
but mediocre audio gear. The $200 price bump on the MBP 2016 is unjustified.
Removing the headphone jack on the iPhone is utterly insane, even if they did
use USB-C (maybe in 10 years when all audio-out ports on everything everywhere
also uses USB-C it would have made sense). macOS stripping out all GPL tools
because they don't want to use GPLv3 stuff, etc. etc. etc.

~~~
osd
[http://macdailynews.com/2007/10/02/lecture_hall_photo_shows_...](http://macdailynews.com/2007/10/02/lecture_hall_photo_shows_widespread_mac_use/)

That's apparently the school of journalism...

~~~
pshposh
Wow that site really doesn't like adblockers

------
wyldfire
Not since Windows 2000 have I been so interested in an upgrade to a new
Windows release. Only at work do I have to suffer through Windows, but this
would make things much nicer there.

I hope/pray that readline and/or editline work correctly on bash et al?

Do Windows CI services like Appveyor support WSL? If so I would hope that
deploying to windows for lots of high level software is relatively painless.

Head scratcher from the video:

> What if I want to open this file in notepad?

> ... <demonstrates opening notepad from bash>

> _audience applauds_

Ugh, the only thing worth applause here would be if instead he had said "and
we finally taught notepad how to work with different line-endings" or "and we
finally deleted notepad". The demo clearly shows the shebang line mashed in
with the rest of the file contents. "This was a very popular ask" \-- from
whom‽ To present things as a dichotomy between vim and notepad is not honest.

EDIT: comments below have clarified: the feature refers to launching Windows
processes from linux ones, not notepad specifically.

~~~
oblio
The Notepad line ending thing is kind of shameful but Notepad is ok for what
it's supposed to do.

It truly is a _Note_ pad. It launches quickly and has a non-nonsense
interface.

It's not meant to be a programmer's editor. It never was, it never will be.

~~~
bitcrazed
Agree 1000%! Was waiting for a comment like yours to help drive the case for
some updates to Notepad to support _NIX file endings, etc. ;)

Anyone running Win10 who wants to see Notepad support _NIX file endings,
PLEASE submit feedback via the feedback app - that way Notepad's owners get to
see your pleas ;)

~~~
kpatrick
what feedback app?

~~~
voltagex_
I think it's available since the most recent stable Windows update - there's
an app literally called "Feedback" you can use to report and upvote issues.

------
dec0dedab0de
I Still wish they did the opposite. I want to seamlessly run an occasional
windows app in linux, and I would pay for it. There is literally zero chance
of me switching back to windows for day to day usage.

Edit:

idobai, I can't reply because your account is banned, but last I tried Wine
and Crossover do not work for the apps I am trying to use.

Edit 2: cyloneyes, you're banned too. But "They" would be Microsoft. They are
the only ones who could really do it.

~~~
Mister_Snuggles
> I want to seamlessly run an occasional windows app in linux, and I would pay
> for it.

Please define "seamless" in this context.

If you mean that you want to have the running Windows apps appear as window in
your Linux environment, VirtualBox has a Seamless mode that will do that. I
haven't tried it, but what I find with Google seems to say it works as
expected. VMware Fusion (on the Mac) has a similar mode called Unity. The
VMware one seems to work well enough, but I haven't tried it extensively.

If you want to be able to open files in Windows applications from your Linux
environment, I'm not sure if this is possible. VMware Fusion (on the Mac) has
this - I can right-click on files in the Mac and see various Windows programs
on the "Open With" list. I don't know if this feature exists on VMware for
Linux, but it would be worth investigating. I'm not aware of an equivalent
with VirtualBox.

Combined, these two features would probably give you the closest thing to a
seamless environment that you can get.

If you just want to run Windows on Linux and are willing to put up with the
friction of using a VM, VirtualBox does a decent job and makes it fairly
painless.

~~~
dec0dedab0de
I've used virtualbox, but it doesn't work with everything, especially when it
comes to hardware. By "Seamless" I meant Binary compatibility, with all the
libraries, fonts, etc necessary to have %100 compatibility. I know it's a pipe
dream, I'm just saying it would be nice.

------
netshade
Just a note to anyone looking to go down this road: IO performance is still
pretty awful last I checked. If your workflow is IO intensive (non trivial
Rails app, let's say), proceed w/ caution.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/bashonubuntuonwindows/comments/5ece...](https://www.reddit.com/r/bashonubuntuonwindows/comments/5ecesm/performance_seems_awful/)
\- My last check.

~~~
netshade
(Addendum) I did a Fast Ring update on a separate machine and did not see
substantial performance improvements, but the comparison is not valid between
the machine linked and the machine I tested on, so I'd be hesitant to say that
the performance hasn't improved at all, just that IO performance is definitely
a weak point to WSL.

~~~
bitcrazed
Yes - IO perf is not yet where we want it to be.

We have some improvements coming in Creator's Update and more substantial
improvements planned in future releases, once we've completed some work with
the NT kernel filesystem team.

------
Philipp__
With Visual Studio Code, Microsoft is making Windows 10 really appealing to
developers. I personally won't jump any time soon, I am really satisfied with
my work environment on macOS (and Linux inside VM) (unless I got locked down
into Microsoft stack for work, in that case I will gladly switch, but it's not
like I will have any other option). But anyway, I recognize and appreciate the
change at Microsoft's direction of thinking, it's awesome! I wouldn't believe
if somebody told me this 10 years ago...

~~~
0xFFC
VCpkg (and ofcourse CMake support, without it I don't use VS honestly) made me
to make that switch ! it is awesome, it is one thing as C++ dev I always
dreamed of

~~~
hashhar
VCpkg is so much better in my opinion than installing library devel packages
on linux. Makes it a pain to keep track of them. Also the code completion and
refactoring capabilities are itself worth it.

You can now also compile using the gcc toolchain if you have WSL installed.

~~~
0xFFC
I agree, it is much better option than traditional /usr/lib

------
vmarsy
those are some cool changes. For those who can't/don'w want to watch the
video:

\- 24 bit color support added.

\- lots of work to support more programs

\- launch windows programs from bash (notepad.exe for instance)

\- file change notification support (to allow for automatically rebuilding a
website on file change for instance)

\- can build a C++ project in Visual Studio and deploy it to your local WSL
env, so you can run it directly from the local bash. (Visual Studio generates
real linux binaries : ELF 64 bit lsb executable)

\- Remote GDB Debugger: Can use visual studio debug engine to debug linux
executables (It looks like this was possible before for remote machines [1],
but now it can be done locally on a program running in WSL.)

[1]
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2015/11/18/announcin...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2015/11/18/announcing-
the-vs-gdb-debugger-extension/)

------
notheguyouthink
I'm still afraid to fully depend on this, and i'm sure i will be for years to
come, but this is by far the most i've been interested in windows.

Who knows, in 3 years i might be able to ditch OSX for Windows, because some
of the Surface devices actually look decent _(no idea how true it is tho)_.

~~~
jaxn
I ditched OSX for a Surface Book and am really happy with it. I use WSL
everyday and primarily develop in Ruby.

------
gwu78
Dumb question: Why did they name this "Subsystem for Linux"? (Old name was
Interix, subsystem for UNIX-based _applications_ , or "SUA".) Does
marketing/users believe there is a distinction between Linux as a kernel and
GNU as a source for a userland? Irrelevant? Curious what others think.

~~~
WorldMaker
The big difference is that it isn't just POSIX compatible, it is a full out
"bug-for-bug" emulation of the Linux kernel specifically with an eye towards
binary compatibility. Out of the box, the userland here isn't just GNU, it is
entirely the same binaries as shipped by Canonical in Ubuntu.

Old Interix required retargeting and recompiling binaries, similar to how you
would need to recompile to target the differences between Linux and BSD. WSL
runs Linux binaries without the need to retarget or recompile specifically for
Windows.

This also means that the long tail ecosystem of Ubuntu PPAs and custom binary
download sites all mostly work, too.

~~~
Rayearth
>the userland here isn't just GNU

Ah okay. Shame that calling this "GNU/NT 10.0" would not be proper then.

~~~
bgrainger
It’s “GNU\NT 10.0”.

~~~
mycall
GNU\Linux\NT 10.0

------
inestyne
How is the file system performance going with this? The latest release version
runs Rails worse than shared folders on VMWare which is slow in bad way.
Running MySQL on top of it might "work" but is it fast?

~~~
bitcrazed
IO perf isn't where we want it to be yet, but we've some improvements coming
in Creators Update and more planned for future releases.

~~~
ZenoArrow
Is it possible to access network drives yet? If not, is this something that's
being worked on? Thanks!

~~~
bitcrazed
Access network drives?

Via SSH? Sure.

Via Samba? Yep:
[https://www.samba.org/~garming/](https://www.samba.org/~garming/)

If you mean MOUNT network drives, then, not yet, alas. But yes we're keen to
build that support when we can.

~~~
mkl
I think they mean network drives mounted or accessed in Windows. For example,
from WSL I can't access files on my network share (in windows it's \\\pc-
name\\\shared, where pc-name is running Samba under Linux). Mapping a drive
letter to it doesn't work either - the only thing that shows up in /mnt is c.
This is quite a pain.

~~~
bitcrazed
Yep - that was the mount thing I mentioned in my prev' reply: We've not yet
got around to mount support, but it is on our backlog and we're keen to get to
it when priorities allow ;)

------
kazinator
With something called Cygnal, you can make native Windows applications, while
taking avantage of all the POSIX interfaces in Cygwin. No special subsystem
required, just some DLL's.

[http://www.kylheku.com/cygnal/](http://www.kylheku.com/cygnal/)

~~~
ygra
With all the drawbacks that Cygwin entails. Plus the requirement to rebuild
the code instead of just using the Linux-native ELF binary.

Those are two things with _very_ different goals.

~~~
kazinator
Which drawbacks are those? (One is performance, unfortunately).

Rebuilding the code is the norm in the GNU/Linux landscape.

Is Ubuntu x86_64 built from Fedora x86_64 packages? Etc.

The requirement "I want to run Linux stuff on Windows without rebuilding" is
basically stupid, because you normally don't even run stuff from Linux distro
A on Linux distro B without rebuilding.

It sort of works for programs that have minimal, reasonably old dependencies.

~~~
wtetzner
People like to use package managers to install thing in a Linux distro.
Supporting binary compatibility means that they can just use apt instead of
building something new, and rely on Canonical for creating packages.

~~~
kazinator
If you're using Ubuntu and relying on Ubuntu packages, that's not "binary
compatibility". That's using Ubuntu binaries on Ubuntu. Ok, it's the trivial
base case of binary compatibility: A is compatible with A.

Ubuntu users do not pull down Fedora packages, right?

~~~
wtetzner
I'm talking about Windows supporting binary compatibility with Ubuntu, so the
Ubuntu userland can be run on Windows.

------
dualogy
Newb question, does this "Winbash" run Linux/posix/unixy binaries that
wouldn't otherwise run or does it assume _the actual Windows dists /builds_
for (Elixir / Go / PostgreSQL / MySQL / GHC / etcpp)?

~~~
sdrinf
* Yes, these are native, ELF binaries. Yes, you can compile it on your linux server, cp it across to windows, and run it.

* No, it is not an emulation. The win10 kernel + compatibility layer just happens to be able to also run ELF binaries. Yes, these show up as standard processes, and can be interacted with using normal windows tools (eg taskmgr).

~~~
bitwize
Windows also needs to simulate the Linux kernel ABI -- not just "run ELF
binaries". It's like "kernel personalities" in BSD.

~~~
bitcrazed
Erm ... that's exactly what WSL does. Not quite sure how we'd be able to run
ELF64 Linux binaries without building a comprehensive Linux ABI compatible
layer.

You might be interested in some of these videos and posts:
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/learn-about-
bas...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/learn-about-bash-on-
windows-subsystem-for-linux/)

------
partycoder
I think "bash on Windows" is not a valid way of describing what it is.

Cygwin, which allows you to run bash among many things, has been available for
_TWENTY TWO YEARS_ now. However it required such software to be ported and
recompiled specifically for its use with Cygwin.

The difference this time is being able to run unmodified Linux software on
Windows, through an application binary interface called Windows Subsystem for
Linux or WSL.

"Bash on Windows" is the least tech-savvy way to describe what is going on.

~~~
1wd
> Bash on Windows or Bash/WSL got the most votes in early polling while we
> were choosing a descriptive name for this unusual feature, especially
> compared to WSRPGLB (Windows Subsystem for Running POSIX, GNU, Linux
> Binaries) which felt a little cumbersome

[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2017/02/08/targeting...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2017/02/08/targeting-
windows-subsystem-for-linux-from-visual-studio/#div-comment-261155)

~~~
partycoder
That should not have been a poll option in the first place because it
oversimplifies what it is.

------
pritambarhate
Can anyone please tell if Windows SubSystem for Linux coexists well with
Cygwin64 and/or msys? I have Cygwin64 installed. I don't use it a lot but it
helps to run some deployment bash scripts which otherwise won't run on
Windows. So it will be good to know if Windows SubSystem for Linux messes up
with it or not.

~~~
chrisper
Both run fine next to each other. The only conflict I can think of is if you
don't call "bash" via a complete path, but rather rely on PATH environment
variable.

Btw. any reason you are not running those bash scripts in WSL now?

~~~
pritambarhate
Thanks for the info. Didn't try the WSL yet. Was afraid to break the workflows
which are already working.

Planning to give WSL a shot soon.

------
chrisper
I just ran my local go project in WSL. And I can confirm it works just like it
does in Linux. This is huge for everyone!

~~~
kaio
I seem to miss the point why this is huge. Why can't the project compiled for
Windows in first place? Are there System specific calls?

~~~
chrisper
I like to do my Go development in a Linux environment. So if I wanted to use
Windows as my main OS, I'd have to either dual boot or use a VM. Now I can
just develop directly in WSL.

A lot of people like to also develop in an environment they are going to
deploy in. In my case I have some linux specific path in my code.

I am also running now Gogland Linux version through WSL.

------
filoleg
Any news about 256-color support? I understand the desire for the extreme
backwards compatibility, but it requires some manual magic done to display
things properly in fish (which, thankfully, works really well with Bash on
Windows after the aforementioned magic), and even then it will only support 16
colors.

~~~
zadjii
Yes, we support every color sequence there is now, for full 256color/24bit
color support.

At this point, I believe the terminal emulation is pretty close to complete,
so if you notice any other shortcomings, make sure to take a look at or GH
page for issue reporting:

[https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues](https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues)

~~~
filoleg
Awesome, thank you guys!

------
CRUDmeariver
When I was playing around with WSL a few months ago, I came across this
emphatic caution from the devs to not modify any files in the Linux subsystem
using Windows applications (aka anything with a GUI)[1]. Apparently it
destroys file metadata and breaks things.

I know it's not that hard to keep your stuff in /mnt/c or wherever, but I
wonder if there is any plan (or if it's even possible) to eliminate this last
bit of incompatibility.

Is it possible to run a GUI version of the Linux version of VSCode on WSL?

1\.
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-n...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-
not-change-linux-files-using-windows-apps-and-tools/)

------
tambourine_man
If Apple gives up on the Mac Pro and Mac mini for good, the Bash Windows
Subsystem may be my new home.

------
cmrdporcupine
I've been sing the Linux subsystem in my new Windows install for the last
couple weeks, after buying my first new PC and first Windows machine in ten
years. It's actually very impressive, and I like it.

My PC has a super loud fan system that requires software support to control to
get it quiet. Under my Linux install this was turning into a configuration
nightmare, trying to find the right incantations -- under Windows it is
working nicely. As are the video drivers.

So I am doing my development in the Windows version of CLion, but doing the
actual compiles and git usage etc. in the Linux subsystem. It's working really
nicely. And for the few GUI I need, apps I run Xming and set my DISPLAY and it
works perfectly.

~~~
chrisper
Same here. I could not get VS code running. However, I could get Gogland and
Pycharm running. So I will just use that I guess.

------
saboot
A basic thing, but glad they updated console to support more colors and basic
vt sequences. Currently I just have X11 server on startup and through some
scripting have a shortcut to launch an xfce4-terminal instead of the native
console.

~~~
nailer
I use ConEmu (and Windows openssh) and have to deal with sporadic console
breakage. Apparently this should be fixed with the console rewrite.

------
risyasin
I couldn't spend more time with that. But my overall experience with WSL is
positive at least I don't need to install cygwin just to get basic tools.
Windows fs is mounted on /mnt/c which is easy to type. I assume most of
important syscalls are already implemented to translate. Even though sometimes
bash.exe stops responding and maybe more enter key works. But bash is working
like a jailed process, WSL does not report Windows processes that run to it.
Which is a deal breaker. Frustrating maybe even more than running without
dbus.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
That's because bash.exe _isn 't_ /usr/bin/bash. It's a confusingly-named
frontend for WSL, and can essentially launch and proxy any Linux app.

------
innocentoldguy
It is good to hear that both Ruby and Elixir work now. I had issues with both
when I first tried Bash on Windows.

The Windows Subsystem for Linux felt _incomplete_ to me the last time I tried
it. I guess that is one of the advantages that macOS has in running Bash.
macOS IS Unix, so Bash just fits, rather than being a bolted on service, the
way it is in Windows. Hopefully things are much smoother now. It is certainly
nice to see Windows finally get a good, cross-platform shell.

EDIT: Oops! It looks like Erlang 19 still isn't quite there...

------
kirkdouglas
Looks great!

I won't switch from Mac anytime soon, but competition is always good. Can't
wait to see how Apple will respond to latest Microsoft actions (WSL, Surface
Book and Surface Studio).

~~~
baq
if it responds. apple looks more and more like a luxury goods company and the
things you mention aren't that. (not saying it won't, but i'm pretty sure
'how' isn't a certainty.)

------
archon810
What I really want is for the symlinks created on Linux to work on Windows.
Right now, Windows can't read them at all.

------
mythz
It's impressive how fast the WSL team is iterating. Being able to create and
debug Linux exe's through Visual Studio is pretty damn slick.

------
vondur
I'm pretty happy that Windows Subsystem for linux mostly works. I was able to
get Don Melton's video scripts for video conversion to work on my Windows
machine quite nicely. I do wish they'd update the base version of Ubuntu used
to the 16.04 release. I had to update a bunch of the software needed as the
releases for 14.04 were out of date. (ruby being the main one)

~~~
markdog12
Looks like Creator's Update will have 16.04:
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/10/19/wsl-...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/10/19/wsl-
adds-ubuntu-16-04-xenial-support/)

~~~
Viper007Bond
Yep, I'm running 16.04 on my machine. Works great.

------
pawadu
Now all we need is a first-party X server...

~~~
gecko
Any particular issues you've got with the existing third-party ones? I don't
honestly use them often (I just work on the Windows side for 99%+ of the GUI
stuff I need to do), but I've not had any issues with Xming, even on a HiDPI
display.

~~~
Eridrus
It's been a few months since I tried, but I couldn't get OpenGL stuff to work
with an X server. I needed it to run OpenAI's gym platform.

------
tekromancr
Can it run apps inside Wine? Windows emulating Linux syscalls so that Wine can
emulate Windows syscalls.

~~~
mschuster91
WINE does not (iirc!) emulate syscalls, it rather provides its own user32.dll
and a host of other libraries which then call Linux userland (e.g.
DirectX->OpenGL) or syscalls (files, I guess).

------
lottin
This should be really useful for people who are forced to use Windows (e.g. at
work). Other than that, I don't think many Linux/Unix enthusiasts are looking
forward to running a spyware-ridden closed-source non-Unix operating system.

~~~
corndoge
Reposting a dead comment on this parent, because it's entirely reasonable.

 _No, I believe they 're not really after the enthusiasts. I think they're
after the fence sitters. Implementing these tools on Windows removes
motivation for casual dissenters from building intertia and leaving their
platform. This is of course not the first time Microsoft has done something
like this. Historically, step two is where they extend the functionality for
Windows only. Let's keep them honest and make sure they don't do that again!_

Why is this dead? It even has a name.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish)

~~~
detaro
In the future, please vouch for comments you think should be visible to revive
it. (link where the "flag" link would be on a non-dead comment)

~~~
corndoge
Vouching privileges shadow revoked :^)

------
ryenus
when could UTF-8 be the default encoding regardless the session language?

------
benchaney
Does this work with OpenGL transparently? If I write an a program that uses
OpenGL on Linux will I be able to run it on windows without any modification?

------
kpatrick
Will console get multiple tabs support eventually?

------
chrisper
I am using WSL to synchronize my stuff to my sever and back via rsync. So
rsync runs in Linux with a C# GUI in Windows!

------
wentoodeep
Python dev here, need Ubuntu Xenial update ASAP for Python 3.5. No, I don't
wanna be in the fast ring. Tq

------
Sir_Cmpwn
Oi, `file` is a BSD tool, not a GNU tool.

~~~
_ZeD_
[https://www.gnu.org/software/fileutils/fileutils.html](https://www.gnu.org/software/fileutils/fileutils.html)

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
That's not the `file` command, it's tools for working with files: chgrp,
chmod, mv, rm, etc. These have all been folded into coreutils these days,
which also does not contain the `file` utility. Ubuntu and practically all
other Linux distros ship BSD's file utility.

~~~
bitcrazed
My apologies, I mis-spoke. I've flogged myself mercilessly and shall not make
that same mistake again ;)

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
No worries :) Nice talk, good work to the team at MS!

------
pandakar
Awesome! Just compiled latest emacs with-lucid + xming and I have emacs
running pretty nicely. Well Done!

------
ape4
Its supposed to be for developers but the next step is running everything. eg
`firefox &`

------
rilut
Please make Bazel run/compatible on BashOnWindows, right now it hangs

------
drdaeman
Any news about namespaces support (so maybe Docker server can work on WSL)?

------
baldfat
If ranger and cmus run I will sadly be living in Windows alot more.

------
oblio
I wonder when it will be RTM (release to manufacturing => stable)

~~~
teh_klev
I think it's coming in the Windows 10 Creators Update in April:

[http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/2/14146182/microsoft-
windows-...](http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/2/14146182/microsoft-
windows-10-creators-update-april-release-date)

~~~
bitcrazed
No - we won't be out of Beta in Creator's Update ... but we'll be close.

There are a few last remaining things we need to enhance & modify before we
feel comfortable before taking off the beta label.

~~~
teh_klev
Thanks for the update, appreciated.

------
midnitewarrior
Wow. This is a game changer.

------
thecourier
This is the end for mac

------
notaplumber
Great!

Now does it support SECCOMP yet?

~~~
bitcrazed
We do implement (at least some of) prctl(), but not seccomp() yet. If this is
important to you, please file a bug and the team will triage & respond.

[https://github.com/microsoft/bashonwindows](https://github.com/microsoft/bashonwindows)

~~~
notaplumber
I don't use github, sorry! :-(

I was just saying maybe WSL shouldn't be advertised as ready for prime time
without SECCOMP-BPF support implemented, e.g: for OpenSSH pre-auth sandbox. At
least not in roles where security is paramount.

~~~
bitcrazed
Where is it advertised as "ready for prime time"? All I said was that WSL is
likely now stable and compatible enough as a daily driver.

Also, remember that our primary goal for WSL right now is to provide a local
development environment in which you can build, run, and test *NIX code.

------
denfromufa
nuget does not work

------
teh_klev
That's one low quality video, and to add insult to injury they're posted on
Facebook.

Here's a better quality video on Channel9:

[https://channel9.msdn.com/events/Windows/Windows-
Developer-D...](https://channel9.msdn.com/events/Windows/Windows-Developer-
Day-Creators-Update/Developer-tools-and-updates)

Same start time of ~17:00 mins in.

~~~
nailer
Thanks. Sorry about the bad quality link, I got it from their Twitter account.
I'd rather just see it on their own site or YT/Vimeo too.

~~~
teh_klev
I guess you're past the edit window now to be able to update?

~~~
nailer
Edit: summoned d-a-n-g. Link now fixed.

~~~
teh_klev
Yay!

------
WayneBro
Do you think they'll ever enable background Linux daemons, so that I don't
have to keep a terminal open to keep Postgres running?

~~~
bitcrazed
We're looking into it. No guarantees yet as there are several challenges and
security / management obstacles to overcome, but we are keen to make daemons
work if possible.

------
vmp
(off-topic) 27:08 - 27:09 - glad to see even official (?) Windows People have
that random task-bar flicker glitch.

------
igtztorrero
Running git-bash since 4 years ago. I hate cmd. Microsoft sucks. Windows13
will be based 100% based on Great Linux

~~~
thebspatrol
>Windows13 will be based 100% based on Great Linux

I want to believe. I'd go fucking apeshit if Windows dropped the NT kernel for
Linux or BSD.

~~~
trentnelson
That would be a huge regression. NT is far more advanced than Linux and BSD
combined.

~~~
beefield
Source?

Personally, I wonder how long it takes before redmond realizes that they are
wasting shareholder money by maintaining/developing a proprietary kernel. It's
not like they could not sell windows/linux as a perfectly good OS with
copyrighted components on top of the kernel.

Or then I have missed something significant.

~~~
flamedoge
how can they sell GPL OS? I mean they can try, but people will just download
for free if they can.

~~~
smcdow
So, then how do you explain Red Hat's $11.5B valuation?

~~~
flamedoge
Well they don't sell OS, they sell service contracts.

