
Our Django Book is Launched - rdegges
http://pydanny.com/our-django-book-is-launched.html
======
rdegges
So, full disclaimer: I was one of the editors of this book.

This is a really great 'best practices' book for Django developers of all
skill levels.

In the Django community, there are a variety of practices that people tend to
use: webapp structure, coding conventions, library preferences, etc. As a
Django developer, finding out 'which way should I do X' is often harder than
it seems: there are tons of articles on Google, but it's difficult to make
sense of which recommendations are right.

This book takes a really great approach to the problem by introducing readers
to a great deal of information: which way you should do X, why, and how it
works. Instead of just getting a solution, you'll understand why things should
be done that way, and how it works.

Furthermore, I can tell you that as an editor of this book, both Danny and
Audrey (the authors) took quite a lot of feedback, and made a lot of
progressive changes to the content. This (in my opinion) is a huge selling
point, as you know all the book's content has been reviewed by numerous
influential Django developers and users.

Anyhow, this is a really great book, and quite cheap for the asking price. I'd
highly recommend you read it, regardless of your skill level.

~~~
mrchess
Having recently started Django for a small gig, I have found searching for
Django documentation, tips, and practices, to be extremely difficult and
confusing, especially coming from the Rails world where blog posts seem a dime
a dozen.

I spent a long time looking for good info only to find outdated or poorly
maintained docs, and a very little sense of "community".

I'll probably grab this book to get me jumpstarted. I'm happy, yet sad that I
have to find my information this way -- says something about the community IMO
(not a bash on you, but just a nag on the Django community as a whole as I
feel it doesn't really like helping beginners).

~~~
jordanmessina
This is really surprising to hear. I think Django has some of the best
documentation out there. I rarely have to go to blogs or Stack Overflow
because that answer usually exists right in the docs.

Could you give an example or two of issues you had that you couldn't find the
answer to in the docs?

------
scorpion032
I just completed reading it.

I haven't been working with django recently and having completely read the
book, I am now up to date.

* The book has a lot of practical advice having developed using django for years. For example, the book recommends, whenever you have a custom manager, always explicitly define `objects` as the default manager, before the custom manager.

* The book makes a recommendation; but also mentions alternatives where applicable. The authors prefer a 3 tier project layout but also suggest that a lot of people prefer the 2 tier layout where the `manage.py` is in the root of the repository. Similarly in the chapter on the Class Based Views. The book suggests an approach and also includes other ones.

* Includes the latest and the new changes in the django 1.5 wrt the User model and how to inherit.

* Recommends and suggests many good third party applications. More books need to do this.

* Provides good review material (if you already know) about Security, Deployment, performance etc.

All of this, just over the top of my head.

Real world advice is often hard to come by. Whether you are a professional or
a novice or just checking out django, you should buy this book.

~~~
deservingend
If this is off the top of your head, why post the exact same thing to reddit?

~~~
scorpion032
I posted it on reddit first off the top of my head directly.

Then I noticed the thread on Hacker News and started writing a comment;
deleted it and copy-pasted from _my own_ reddit comment and went to bed
peacefully.

Which part of this is not right?

------
lifeisstillgood
One of my big concerns is user / session security.

I have tried to follow and reason through discussions on stackoverflow and
much of tpatchek's notes. I would be interested in how "high level" the
security chapter is from anyone who has shelled out already.

For example I assume I will

1\. only use persona or openid (avoids storing passwords in my servers thus
making a lot of things much much easier)

2\. sessions - store absolutley nothing in a session cookie other than a nonce
session id, and lookup everrything I need from cache on servers form that
sessionId

3\. That seems to be it really

I just do not know where to go to have this discussion sensibly - any hints?

~~~
pydanny
Disclaimer: I'm one of the authors.

The book covers 7 pages that gets you started down the road of understanding
security. We provide you the stuff you have to know, and point you towards
better resources.

Keep in mind we aren't professional security experts. If your site needs to be
that secure, the best thing you can do is to hire the services of a carefully
vetted security expert.

~~~
S_A_P
I think a great title for the security chapter should be Django Unchained.

I look forward to reading this- Thanks.

~~~
pydanny
ROFL

------
simonw
Congratulations, it's great to see a new Django book and it looks like you've
nailed a really important topic. Looking forward to reading it!

~~~
pydanny
Coming from you, this really means a lot to the two of us. :-)

------
wifarley
Just finished the first chapter and I'm probably not putting it down again
(after I write this comment). This feels like something Django really needed
(or I needed for Django), despite its extensive documentation. I find
analogies are very helpful for my understanding and the ice cream one is
perfect. The fact that "Each Chapter Stands On It's Own" is the great too!

~~~
pydanny
I'm one of the authors. Can we use "I find analogies are very helpful for my
understanding and the ice cream one is perfect." as a quote on the site?

~~~
wifarley
Of course! I really appreciate the time you all put in this book and I keep
finding huge changes I can make in my code (ch.2 on db and ch.3 on layout -a
very difficult topic to research a few months ago) I'm at webpowerlabs.com for
reference. Thanks again and great job!

------
kefs
Considering purchasing since I was thinking of diving into django for my next
project..

If I buy the PDF now, and you eventually release an EPUB or other format, will
I get access to those files (with updates) as well?

~~~
pydanny
Honestly, I don't know enough about ePub distribution to answer you. I would
love to do that though.

~~~
mladenkovacevic
I will purchase your book as well, but with a hope that there will be an ePub
version released in the future. I have a junky Sony e-Reader that is not so
great at touch controls for things like zooming and panning (necessary with
most PDFs) and an ePub would reflow the text as needed based on font size.

------
th
This is a really great book. The formatting does need a lot of work (I see no
chapter or section headings in the PDF) and an ePub version would be very
useful.

The actual content of this book is excellent though. I feel like I keep up
with new developments in the Django community pretty well, but there's a lot
of advice in this book I hadn't heard before.

~~~
pydanny
Alright then, I'm one of the authors of this book.

There are chapter and section headers in the book, but we've had a couple
people using PDF readers on Linux who don't see them. Can you email me at
pydanny@cartwheelweb.com and let me know which PDF reader you are using so we
can test and hopefully fix the issue?

Thanks!

~~~
pimentel
I'm having trouble on Linux Mint stock pdf reader (Evince). No chapter numbers
appear on the table of contents, and the chapter title doesn't appear on the
chapter pages

By the way, if you update the book, will we get the updates as well?

------
bdesimone
I develop Django professionally, bought the book, and just finished a quick
read through. I am very impressed. Some may rightly say you can get all the
information in the book elsewhere and for free, I wouldn't want to. This book
would have saved me many hours over the last few years. $12 is a bargain. I
think the depth and breadth is just right and would highly suggest it for
(nearly) every level of Django developer.

My one complaint, to not just this book, but pretty much the community at
large is there exists scant documentation dealing with 'enterprise
grade'database migration (..both data and schema, for some reason data is
always left out) with Django and South.

Nice work.

P.S. - I've made a small pull request to your django template as it doesn't
work in it's current form.

~~~
pydanny
I'm one of the authors.

Your observation about enterprise grade migrations is interesting. We'll see
what we can do to add to the book.

------
dvirsky
True story: I asked a guy at work if he's seen Django Unchained, and he
seriously said "No, and I didn't know we had a Django book in our library"

------
hknews
First suggestion: show the 2nd level in your Table of Contents. That's helpful
for customers like me who would buy the book if they knew a bit more details
about what's inside (I don't want to buy something and then find out I know
most of the contents already).

Another suggestion that would get me to buy the book: does the book addressed
particular issues that I know I need to figure out (and will save me from
having to do my own research). In particular, would be useful if the marketing
of the book told me that it would discuss specific tasks/decisions. Some
examples of tasks:

-how to code my django app so it works in both python 2.7 and python 3? What's the best way to do that? Django six? How do I setup virtualenv to support my dual configuration? I think this is what the django core team is doing nowadays so I can also adopt the same strategy, right?

-what's the best way to replace django templates with jinja2?

-for python 3, what is the alternative to PIL?

-as mentioned elsewhere, how do I do database migration when the models change. Especially, what are the different alternatives for doing the migration (django south seems too complicated -- can I just make sure the manage.py db schema and the actual db schema are the same as the docs suggest?)

-should I use store much of my model data in a json field so I don't have to deal with db migration? Any software packages or coding tips about this?

-how do I use SQL Alchemy with django? Issues with doing this (besides not getting a lot of django goodies).

-how do I configure django-social-auth ( <https://github.com/omab/django-social-auth> ) beyond the default setting (ie: the pipeline)

-what is a good web host for django. Answer: webfaction. How do I set up virtualenv on webfaction?

~~~
pydanny
Thanks for the comments! I'm one of the authors!

1\. For Python 2/3 compatibility, we recommend SIX. 2\. We recommend using
Jinja2 where you need it, not as a replacement. 3\. PIL on Python 3 is not yet
solved. This is part of the reason why the Python web world has not
transitioned over completely. It's a huge blocker. 4\. We plan to cover South
in depth. In the BETA or FINAL editions of the 1.5 book. 5\. You implement
SQLAlchemy in DJango via "import sqlalchemy". You do lose lots of goodies
(ModelForms, Admin, a bunch of views, etc) 6\. django-social-auth is something
we hope to cover before FINAL 7\. On web hosts (webfaction, Heroku, et al), we
didn't want to turn the book into a tome about deployment. Each provider does
things differently, and we would have to keep track of all that and update
when host providers change their services. So rather than describe deployments
in depth, we're going to link to their documentation and let them handle it.

------
nava
I purchased this book because Audrey and Danny put on great events in LA area.
I've been to one of them and they were extremly helpful and the event was
great :)

I'm sure the book has a ton of useful information and I will definitely be
reading it.

You should purchase the book if you believe in giving back to the people who
give there time to open source and helping others.

Thanks again, Fernando

------
kroger
Congratulations! If I may suggest a few things:

\- How about adding a sample in the web page?

\- You may to consider using PayPal in addition to Gumroad. Gumroad is
awesome, but some people may only be able to use PayPal (e.g. no International
Credit Card) or prefer it. I use both for my book and I sell way more copies
on PayPal.

~~~
vickytnz
+1 on payment options. As someone with a British credit card, the site won't
verify my card (I suspect I need to be able to put my name as per card and
address on it). So much for being able to buy it :(

~~~
kerridge0
I was able to use my HSBC Visa Debit card - there was no verification though -
payment just went straight through.

~~~
vickytnz
Had to go speak to my bank, turns out that Gumroad came up as fraud and HSBC
froze my entire account! The bank said it should work now but I'm pretty put
off.

~~~
thr0awAY1
I had exactly the same issue with my Royal Bank of Scotland account - Gumroad
was flagged as fraud (the security people at RBS said they had several
complaints about Gumroad) and I had to get my account unlocked.

People using British accounts - be VERY wary about making payments to Gumroad.
I'm waiting till this is available on PayPal or Amazon.

------
hrayr

      # Normally you should not import ANYTHING from Django directly
      # into your settings, but ImproperlyConfigured is an exception.
      from django.core.exceptions import ImproperlyConfigured
    

The humor in this book makes it a joy to read, but the content is what makes
it a must read!

------
fluidrhino
Purchased! This looks awesome, I literally just set up django yesterday and
had a huge amount of unanswered questions while setting it up. Like you have
mentioned, I had a real hard time finding the 'best' practices to set up the
environment. Anxious to get home and start reading.

~~~
sarfrazdjango
how can i get the django book published by hackers

------
travisfischer
Congrats Danny and Audrey on the launch. I'm excited to read this. It sounds
like a valuable resource.

------
zemanel
Nice! Will add it to the portuguese Python compendium i'm working on in my
spare time <https://gist.github.com/32d09bb884b3428c8fa7>

------
teh_klev
Just bought the book, not really spelunked it much yet but looks pretty cool
so far - I'm just getting to grips with django and other python web frameworks
generally.

One tiny annoyance is the lack of pre-generated bookmarks based on the
contents page. See [1] for example of how Uncle Bob's clean code PDF ships
with these (my PDF reader is Foxit). These bookmarks save a hell of a lot of
time navigating back and forth in a large PDF document such as books.

[1] <http://i.imgur.com/kytfm.png>

~~~
pydanny
Just so you know, I'm one of the authors.

I agree with you 100%.

Unfortunately, the tool we used to format the book doesn't do this for us, so
we either have to use a third-party product to do it manually OR write a
Python script to generate the bookmarks.

We intend to start working on the Python script tomorrow, and I really want to
get it into the BETA release.

Thanks for the feedback!

------
FlukeATX
I did purchase this because I will find it very useful, but I do want to say
that providing an ePub format is clutch. Please, please do what you can to
provide this format in the future!

~~~
pydanny
Working on it!

------
superchink
I definitely look forward to reading this over the weekend. Just purchased.
I've already learned quite a bit from pydanny's blog over the years, so
hopefully the book follows suit.

------
ylem
Just bought a copy--hope it's useful for my next intern :-)

------
dbrinnen
I bought it and after a quick view of it seems to be a good catch! I am a
beginner to Django and before this I have read the "The Definitive guide to
Django"

------
cypr
I've done some own small projects based on django. Read the turorial, read
alot of best practises on the tubes and a lot of trial and error. I did just
buy this out of curiosity and for $12 and after reading the book for about a
hour now, I think this is a great summary of best practise with explanations
_why_ something is considered best practise.

Haven't read more than 50 pages yet but I like it. Great job!

------
alvinator
Met pydanny and audrey last pycon PH. I'll be buying this book in support for
their awesome work. By the way, can we buy the ebook via paypal?

------
antidamage
Already? The movie only just came out! Nice work.

------
japhyr
As a new django user, one of the most confusing issues to deal with is
deployment. Many guides say a few hand-wavy things about deployment, and then
move on. Can anybody summarize what this book says about deployment?

By the way, congratulations on releasing this! I've been looking forward to
seeing what the "mad secret project" was.

~~~
cschmidt
Chapter 25 is a short 4 page chapter on deployment. I do look forward to
having a chance to read it all.

------
raphaelb
Is it only for 1.5? Will the best practices carry over for someone looking to
understand more about structuring 1.4 projects?

I'm working on a 1.4 project right now and while 1.5 sounds great, I'm not
sure we're quite ready to upgrade. But we've been looking for a best practices
book more recent than the ones covering 1.0 on amazon.

~~~
raphaelb
I answered my own question. Bought it, looks great. From the book:

"This book should work well with the Django 1.4 series, less so with Django
1.3, and so on."

------
clicks
Does it mostly focus on Django on Python 2, or is there a good portion that
deals with Django on Python 3 as well?

~~~
pydanny
We decided that until there are working implementations of Django running on
heavily trafficked Python 3 site, it would be best to focus on Python 2.7.
Heck, for that matter, Python 3 is experimental in Django 1.5. We wanted to
keep our readers in a safe spot and advocate safety over cutting edge.

That said, we tried to make things as Python 3 friendly as possible. :-)

~~~
hayksaakian
I'm patiently waiting for book version 2 then.

------
knes
Is there anything like this but for Flask?

~~~
pydanny
That's a very good question...

------
antihero
It has ice cream on the cover? Sold. Seriously, I like books that feel warm
and fun, even on serious topics.

------
ahmadss
Glad to see that you're using Gumroad, but here's an alternative place to sell
"previews" of the book -- <http://timebx.com/>.

Might be worth a shot later down the road when you are trying to sell to a
less captive audience (as compared to the HN crowd).

------
c-star
I was going to buy this book but it doesn't seem like django.2scoops.org/ uses
HTTPS. I'm not comfortable giving away my credit card numbers and CSV without
it. Strangely, the website shows "HTTPS Secure" on the top left corner.

Would there be another payment method?

~~~
bitsoda
Once you click through to the actual Gum Road page, you reach a secure site.

<https://gumroad.com/l/uyqN>

------
kalail
The project layout structure is great. All Django developers should follow
this.

------
julien_p
This looks fantastic and the timing couldn't have been better for me. It's
been a while that I started a new Django project and I was looking for exactly
this type of best practices just this afternoon.

------
jkeesh
We develop our site in django and just bought the book. Excited to read it!

------
megaman821
Will it be available on the Kindle or as an ePub or solely PDF and print?

~~~
pydanny
I'm one of the authors.

Because of the formatting issues of Kindle and ePub, the negative reviews
Python books get when formatting breaks in those formats, we're not sure yet
it we'll publish it in mobi/epub.

That said, if you have any advice on getting Python to look good in those
formats, we would love to hear it. :-)

~~~
kroger
Just bought the book, congrats!

I've written about using Sphinx to write technical books, you may find it
useful: <http://pedrokroger.net/2012/10/using-sphinx-to-write-books/>

I see you used Pages to write the book. AFAIK Pages can export to ePub
automatically (but I don't know if the result is any good). Maybe you could
consider to export the ePub and distribute it with the PDF even if the ePub is
a "beta" version. I think it could be useful for a lot of people.

------
greenonion
This is great. As a new Django developer one of my most frequent Google
queries is "best practices about x in django". I am thrilled to finally have
so much of that stuff in one place.

------
scottrb
I've been looking for django books that use 1.4 but didn't find anything, so
great news for me. Purchased it right away and can't wait to give it a read
this weekend. Thanks!

------
mrchess
Is this useful for Django 1.4.3 development? I know this is a 1.5 book so I'm
not sure how much of the API/stack has changed and how relevant the book will
be for me.

~~~
pydanny
I'm one of the authors.

Most of the book will work with Django 1.4.3. There are some exceptions such
as use of the {% url %} template tag, the custom user model, and some other
areas.

------
myko
Will this be available on Google Books? I'd like to keep all my purchases in
one place, plus I prefer the reflow-ability over a PDF.

~~~
pydanny
What format does Google Books require?

~~~
myko
Looks like ePub if you're going to add re-flowing text (I see in the other
thread what a pain that can be, but I think it works fine for Programming
Python which I have through Google Books).

They also support PDF, which I'd still prefer to purchase through Google
directly if only to keep my stuff in one place.

[http://support.google.com/books/partner/bin/answer.py?hl=en&...](http://support.google.com/books/partner/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=106169)

[http://support.google.com/books/partner/bin/answer.py?hl=en&...](http://support.google.com/books/partner/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=40288)

------
ender89
Oh my god, I've been waiting to read this ever since I saw the movie. wait, I
don't remember any "Python"s in the movie....

------
tomg
I didn't see it in the chapter list, so probably not, but is there anything in
your book about writing (good) tests?

~~~
pydanny
That's covered of the Chapter 18, which has a Secret Chapter Title.

~~~
tomg
Thanks!

------
adamc
Is there a way to buy it using PayPal? Am not to keen on sending a credit card
number...

~~~
pydanny
Our publisher, gumroad, uses Stripe to accept payments. If that doesn't work,
we're looking into PayPal, but that might be a few days.

~~~
MWinther
I found the checkout process needlessly confusing. The split between the first
and second page once I clicked was not clear to me, and the name of the button
beside the price box was "Gift". With the arrow above it specifying a price, I
didn't understand if I was entering the price of the book, or an additional
sum. Could I have paid less and still received the book?

Finally, once I have paid for the book, it seems I can't get back to the page
again, so I guess I'm not supposed to be able to buy another copy?

I would look over the usability of the checkout process, I almost didn't buy
it because of the perceived ambiguity. And I would have preferred to use
Paypal.

------
mogop
Thank You for the free alpha copy! :) definitely will buy the final version -
or Donate

------
FilterJoe
Feedback from a 4 month newbie: I've read several chapters. Overall the book
is great but I have some specific suggestions, which I'll wrap in the context
of what my biggest barriers to learning Django and web development have been.

Background: I starting learning web development with Django 4 months ago. I
knew nothing but procedural programming (from late 80s) and a little CSS
(Wordpress) before starting. I did Learn Python the Hard Way for a week then
dove in.

Barriers to learning Django and Web dev:

1) Setting up the development and production environments has taken up at
least 1/3 of my last 4 months of learning. This book would have helped with
that significantly.

Suggestion 1: It would help even more if, in addition to your sample setup on
github, there was a virtual machine or Vagrant file intended for beginners to
get up and running quickly.

I've developed a VMware VM for myself along these lines (based on bitnami's
Django stack on top of Ubuntu 12.04) and will use your book to improve it -
especially changing my project layout template.

Suggestions 2: Answer a specific question the book didn't address: Is a
virtual machine (one per project) a fine alternative to using virtualenv? If
not, why not?

2) Django docs do a great job telling me what each command does, but rarely
which of many alternatives is best to use (and why), and how best to structure
projects. So I end up doing hours of searching each week (Google, Stack
Overflow). This is where Two Scoops really nails it - would have shaved at
least 2 weeks off my 4 months learning time. [can use this as a direct quote
on your site, if you like]

Suggestion 3: Chapter 4 talks about keeping apps small and loosely coupled but
not how to bind multiple reusable apps together, especially ones where tight
coupling seems natural. I know there are techniques for this but I don't know
which is best.

Suggestion 4: Chapter 6 briefly discusses when to drop down to SQL. Would love
to see this expanded to several pages, with perhaps a long list of common
situations where it does make sense to drop down to SQL. Either that, or a
link to an excellent external resource.

3) Django is a tour de force in OOP. If you're weak on OOP, the tutorial and
most other parts of Django is tough going. Practice and learning how to use my
IDE (PyCharm) to navigate code eventually got me over this hurdle. This is not
something addressed by your book, which is fine.

Suggestion 5: In Before You Begin section, perhaps add a single sentence that
urges beginners to learn Python and (importantly) OOP before starting the
Django tutorial.

4) No Django doc clearly explains the basic concept of web pages with no
state, but context passed around to keep track of things. I still don't 100%
understand why there are so many different ways of dealing with context, and
which Django commands are best for given situations. Not currently in your
book and maybe it doesn't fit in. But just want to mention that this was, and
continues to be, a hurdle.

5) Deployment is way too hard for a beginner. I'm using dotcloud so that made
it easier but again - having a virtual machine for distribution to beginners
would be super helpful.

Suggestion 6: Expand chapter on deployment.

6) Would love to see an entire book devoted to building a single, substantial
project that did a lot of typical things, but with all best practices
implemented and explained in context. The project would use 2-3 existing
Django apps and create 2-3 additional ones from scratch, and would show how to
have intermediate apps to tie together 2 apps that need tight coupling. It
would show this apps environments of dev, testing, staging, and deployment on
either dotcloud, heroku, or gondor.io. It would show how to make the app look
reasonably attractive, perhaps using Zurb or Twitter Bootstrap. I think this
would make a terrific companion book to Two Scoops.

Hope some of this is helpful. Thanks for writing this book! I've had it for
less than a day and I've already learned a lot.

~~~
pydanny
I'm one of the authors. Can you send this review to me at
pydanny@cartwheelweb.com?

Thanks!

------
pn
Can somebody comment on how readable the book is on a Kindle?

~~~
squidsoup
PDFs generally are painful to read on any kindle other than the Kindle DX.

------
onlyup
Do you discuss or use the built in admin thing in Django?

~~~
pydanny
Yes we do. Admittedly it's one of the few short chapters in the book. We do
plan to add more content in either the BETA or FINAL releases.

------
buddyholly22
wow congrats. Love the graphics. Can't wait to dive in!

------
bsimpson
Congrats Audrey! =)

------
HelloMcFly
I'll be checking this out soon. Thanks!

------
gits1225
It always puts a bad taste in my mouth when information/knowledge is locked
behind a pay-wall. It frustrates me when I think that someone somewhere is
getting turned down from what they want to learn from because they had no
money to pay for it or doesn't have the means to pay for it. I know the
authors should profit but why can't they do something like
<https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/> or <http://debian-handbook.info/> or
<http://www.aosabook.org/en/index.html> or <http://philip.greenspun.com/seia/>
or <http://learncodethehardway.org/> or <http://10print.org/> etc etc etc...
Aren't the authors of these books making money? Or is it the fear that people
just won't pay for it if its also free to download even if they can?

EDIT: I didn't 'click-through' to the book's original site because there was
no mention that the book is also available to those who can't afford on this
announcing page. My mistake.

Another great resource: <http://gettingstartedwithdjango.com/> and videos
here: <http://gettingstartedwithdjango.com/pages/gigantuan/>

~~~
pydanny
Disclaimer: I'm one of the authors.

First, if you can't afford to buy the book, then do as we asked on
<http://django.2scoops.org>. Email us and we'll send you a copy. Money should
never be in the way of education.

Second, this book took hundreds of hours to write. For weeks we've put in
12-14+ hour days putting it together. We did it instead of working in an
office or doing consulting. If we don't charge then we can't put this sort of
thing together and maintain it.

Unless, of course, you want to sponsor us to do this sort of work. ;-)

~~~
gits1225
You misunderstood me. I wasn't asking for a free copy or that you shouldn't
charge for it.

~~~
kroger
So what did you mean?

~~~
gits1225
Just what pydanny said above, only that I noticed it a little late.

