

'NSA should come clean about domestic spying': NYC Police Commissioner - discostrings
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/nsa_should_come_clean_ray_kelly_dfAKlqJ4keYDNiJqANhIMO

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dmix
Had to look this up:

> The NYPD secretly spied on Muslim organizations, infiltrated Muslim student
> group and videotaped mosque-goers in New Jersey for years, it was revealed
> in 2012. The NYPD said its actions were lawful and necessary to keep the
> city safe.

[http://gothamist.com/2013/05/20/ap_obtains_texts_from_the_ny...](http://gothamist.com/2013/05/20/ap_obtains_texts_from_the_nypds_mus.php)

[http://gothamist.com/2013/04/30/bloomberg_dont_mess_with_nyp...](http://gothamist.com/2013/04/30/bloomberg_dont_mess_with_nypd_becau.php)

Look's like they should focus on their own problems.

~~~
daniel-cussen
To be fair, in a way they _were_ focussing on their own problems. Like...the
whole Twin Towers thing.

~~~
dmix
The NYPD declined the need an Inspector General or a federal monitor after it
was discovered. They are conducting a secret surveillance based on a groups
religious affiliation without public scrutiny and want to defend the power to
continue doing so.

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tsaoutourpants
Pot, kettle, black.

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Glyptodon
"I think the American public can accept the fact if you tell them that every
time you pick up the phone it’s going to be recorded and it goes to the
government."

I can't believe this guy. At least he thinks it should be public, I suppose.

~~~
rhizome
Because he wants to do it, too. In a just world this guy would be out of a
job.

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rl3
“I think the American public can accept the fact if you tell them that every
time you pick up the phone it’s going to be recorded and it goes to the
government,” Kelly said. “I think the public can understand that. I see no
reason why that program was placed in the secret category.”

The whole media ruckus over Snowden is simply because people don't like
secrets being kept from them. They're actually completely cool with the whole
total surveillance thing, though.

~~~
discostrings
That's actually part of the media ruckus. There's a lot wrong going on with
these programs, and people have different objections. Some object to the
surveillance itself, some object that it was kept secret but approve of the
surveillance, and some object to the way the executive branch is doing this
without meaningful input from the other branches of government. And of course,
some simply object because of the executive who is doing it.

For those who object to the surveillance: it's really important to engage
others about the privacy/surveillance debate right now. As those who only
oppose the secrecy or the process aspects of what's going on become satisfied,
interest will dissipate and it'll become much harder to engage people on the
surveillance issue itself. It's a really interesting opportunity to actually
engage people about privacy and surveillance without many people instantly
deferring to the status quo.

~~~
rhizome
How about we just start at whether it's legal and Constitutional? Everything
else follows from that.

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betterunix
s/come clean about/let us use their system for/

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woah
“He tried to give the impression, it seems to me, that these system
administrators had carte blanche to do what they wanted to do,” he said. “I
think it’s a problem if that’s in fact what’s happening.”

Is it, in fact, possible to administer a system without having full access to
that system?

~~~
bilbo0s
Well...

Yes and no.

For instance, you can give a team full access... and at the same time have
access control only grant that full access when two different people enter
their credentials.

Also, audits should be more than cursory... and should be performed by a
DIFFERENT organization.

They can operate in a more secure fashion than, I suspect, they currently
operate.

But when you consider the full matter..

You begin to see that the message, on a national level, is being managed in
such a manner that "solutions" presuppose the EXISTENCE of these databases. If
it were up to me, I would try to keep the conversation squarely centered
around the deconstruction of this surveillance infrastructure. But we need to
find a Senator who can credibly do that in the absence of Feingold... and this
is a problem.

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forgotAgain
Just goes to show that regardless of all the claims of oversight, it all comes
down to people. You combine that with the fact that power corrupts and it's
obvious what a danger the NSA is to America.

