
Macbook Pro Touch Bar runs watchOS - walterbell
https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/791872723681239040
======
veli_joza
Technology details aside, I don't understand why Touch Bar is such a big deal.
Sure it's shiny and responds to touch, but I don't want to be looking at
keyboard and hunt for commands that are sometimes there. I don't want another
monitor with additional information, I only have one set of eyes.

~~~
M4v3R
Contrary to the HN demography, most people are not touch-typists, and most
don't use keyboard shortcuts. Having an interactive, contextual bar of action
buttons makes actions that normally require several clicks more discoverable
to them.

~~~
hash-set
Wouldn't it make sense to become a touch typist, then? I've watched so many
developers be less effective than they could be simply because they can't
type!

~~~
eludwig
This is actually easier said than done. I'm 58 and been a hunt and peck typist
(at this point a fairly effective and fast one) all my life. I've been a
developer for 30 years. I've tried several times to learn to touch-type. I can
do all of the exercises, play all of the games, but I have never been able to
make the leap from looking to not looking at the keyboard.

It's the gap where you still have a full-time job to do along with those
expectations that I fall down. :( Maybe it's to late for me?

That aside, I have never had any problem with productivity as a developer. As
a "typist", yes, but not as an author of software. It just never comes up. Do
I feel less "cool" when I am in a room with people looking at me type? Hell
yes. But am I actually getting things done slower? Probably some things.
Typing commands, yes. I could be faster there. Typing code? Maybe.

Just adding the perspective of a long time 6 fingered typist (occasionally 7).

~~~
tstrimple
You can be a touch typist without using the strict home row and finger
placement. I would actually argue that the home row concept isn't ideal for
developers especially. My fingers actually rest between the keys, and I know I
press keys with the "wrong" fingers (easy to notice on ergonomic keyboards),
but I do not have to look at my keys and I type around 70 words per minute
without feeling like I'm rushing.

~~~
iamatworknow
I touch type around 90 WPM and never took a class on it. After years of video
gaming my "home row" is resting my left hand on WASD and my right hand takes
care of everything right of RFV. And like you said, ergonomic keyboards are
basically unusable to me.

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spdustin
Very clever. Basically seems to allow the continuity, notification sharing,
proximity and Apple Pay features of an Apple Watch or iPhone by slapping what
is effectively an Apple Watch right into the chassis. Very little _new_
functionality would have to be written into the OS, because it doesn't have to
know about the extra control surface features, it can just pass messages a'la
handoff/continuity.

I would imagine this means writing TouchBar (autocorrect on my iPhone hasn't
learned that one yet) support into MacOS apps means developing a watchOS
extension to bundle with the app, which seems really simple and elegant.

Really makes me wonder if writing similar extensions to macOS that use a
secondary control/presentation surface could be that easy. Why not let me
write an extension that opens on my iPad when my macOS app is opened to show
additional shortcuts/controls for that app? There are a few remote tools that
can do some of this (BTT Remote and Alfred Remote come to mind as possible
configurable remote control surfaces) but if I was able able to write a
purpose-built control surface with bundles for TouchBar, iPhone, iPad and/or
Apple Watch, all detected by proximity and using handoff to advertise
readiness... that would be _amazing_.

~~~
JonathonW
> I would imagine this means writing TouchBar (autocorrect on my iPhone hasn't
> learned that one yet) support into MacOS apps means developing a watchOS
> extension to bundle with the app, which seems really simple and elegant.

Nope. Apps customize the Touch Bar using AppKit inside their app's code;
there's no third-party code running on the Touch Bar's processor at any point.
The Touch Bar has a little bit of intelligence (it's responsible for the Touch
ID and Apple Pay UIs, and supposedly can display traditional function keys
independent of the OS for use in dual-boot situations), but it appears to be
mostly just receiving and displaying a framebuffer that's rendered and
provided to it by the host machine, then forwarding touch events back to the
host machine for interaction with the UI.

------
3pt14159
So I'm an unfortunate fellow that runs Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro. If I'm lucky,
this means I should be able to get the touch bar working in Ubuntu, right?
Since it's just framed data over USB, it shouldn't be that hard to reverse
engineer, right?

~~~
randlet
My first reaction when I saw the touch bar was "Ugh this is going to cause a
world of headaches when runnning Ubuntu". I was relieved to see you can still
get a MBP with physical function keys[1]. (semi-off topic: any Linux users
want to chime in and recommend a 14" or 15" laptop with build quality similar
to a MBP?)

[1] [http://www.apple.com/ca/shop/buy-mac/macbook-
pro?product=MJL...](http://www.apple.com/ca/shop/buy-mac/macbook-
pro?product=MJLQ2LL/A&step=config#)

edit: thanks to everyone for the recommendations!

edit 2: there's some more recommendations here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12815183](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12815183)

~~~
lykron
Many people, myself included, love the Dell XPS 13.

~~~
rootbear
The XPS 13 Ubuntu version seems to not be available. Does anyone know what's
up? I tried to do a comparison yesterday with the new Macbooks and wasn't able
to. The Windows version is still available.

[http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd](http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd)

~~~
smhg
You can find it on this page:

[http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd](http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd)

The most straightforward way is to select "Ubuntu" as the "Operating System"
filter at the top of the models list.

Outside the US you should follow the links in this article:

[https://bartongeorge.io/2016/10/04/the-new-
xps-13-developer-...](https://bartongeorge.io/2016/10/04/the-new-
xps-13-developer-edition-lands-in-europe-and-united-states/)

~~~
memsom
UK Site - I can't see any way to configure with anything except Windows 10
Home.

~~~
smhg
In the Configurations section (where you see the first 4 models), you have to
push Next until you are at the end of the list. The last 3 models mention
Ubuntu (last 4 in the US).

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mpg33
Touch Bar is cool but it seems like a solution in search of a problem..

~~~
edwinjm
You think remembering all function keys for every program is not a problem?
Some remarks really amaze me.

~~~
brianobush
You use function keys for repetitive tasks, if you don't repeat it enough to
worry about, then it is a non-issue.

~~~
askafriend
Discoverability for the common consumer is the problem this is solving, plain
and simple.

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s_q_b
Apple is unifying their operating systems.

Apple has always wanted to be a closed system. In the beginning, Jobs made the
Macintosh, the first computer he was truly charged with designing, a closed
system. Literally. The case needed a special precision screw bit to open.
Next, the original iPhone was so closed that it didn't even have an app store.

Now Apple starts moving more and more code execution to Ring-0, on the newly
rebranded macOS. macOS, iOS, watchOS... And now the inclusion of watchOS
within the Macbook Pro. They're all trending toward the same goal: to create a
unified platform across all their devices.

But what type of operating system will it be?

Recently Apple has enjoyed substantially greater ROI on devices that run
restricted operating systems. I suppose they'll have a "developer" mode for
creating applications, but macOS going to become a walled garden for the
average consumer.

~~~
IMcD23
Since iOS's inception, it has run the exact same kernel as the Mac. They
developed separate UI layers for separate devices, but the underlying system
has always been the same.

They do seem to be bringing the higher level components together where they
can, which seems smart from a maintainability perspective.

macOS becoming a walled garden? Maybe, but it has nothing to do with them
sticking a Touch Bar running a variant of watchOS on their laptop.

------
lanestp
That actually makes a lot of sense. Since WatchOS spends most of its time
syncing to other devices its a pretty natural choice. I suspect the main
reason they did that was to avoid exposing the secure enclave directly to
macOS.

For all the people calling this out as a hack I would counter that it is
actually an example of elegant code reuse.

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6stringmerc
Didn't some high-class Razer gaming laptop do something with little blinky /
changeable icons in some keys a while ago? Just looked it up, yeah, the Blade.

That was 3 years ago.

~~~
dep_b
Which isn't the same as a multitouch surface.

~~~
6stringmerc
Right, I figure it's probably even better because the stress factor of pushing
on little icons doesn't strike me as a wise longevity decision. Of course I'm
talking about an Apple product here so I should acknowledge 'Intentional
Obsolescence' as part of the business model. Basically I'm pointing out that
not only did Apple not innovate something, they managed to make it
(potentially) inferior for the sake of cuteness in the process.

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pmlnr
Can you play Quake on it?

~~~
ericcholis
*Crysis

~~~
ronjouch
OP question was actually plausible, as Quake and other open-sourced ID
Software games have a long history of being ported / rendered to all kinds of
exotic devices by the modding community: terminals [1], oscilloscopes [2], and
many others.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRPoS2WDJA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRPoS2WDJA)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMli33ornEU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMli33ornEU)

------
tmaly
Yeah it is a form of code reuse, but did they really need to add another level
of software to maintain on the MacBook Pro?

It just spreads they resources thinner in my opinion with more software and
compatibility to maintain. If they fail to keep their software quality high,
they will lose customers and damage their brand.

------
sliken
Keep in mind for the touch pro haters out there. You can skip the touch bar,
save $200, and get a 5kwh larger battery. They didn't cripple it, you can
still get more ram, larger ssd, etc.

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mgiannopoulos
Maybe you can run Windows XP on it, if it is a separate chip :D

~~~
IMcD23
It's an ARM chip, but theoretically it's jailbreakable!

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usaphp
I wonder if they are going to release an external keyboard with a touch bar,
since many mbp users connect their laptop to a monitor and use external
keyboard

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bengoodger
This seems kind of crazy to me. Why not just treat the touch strip as a second
display? That would seem to afford a smoother integration.

~~~
walterbell
The Twitter thread claims that touch input/display, touch ID, secure enclave
and camera are isolated on a separate ARM SoC. Since touch ID will be used for
Apple Pay, and Apple Pay will be integrated into Safari, this architecture may
be harder to attack from a malicious website that is trying to obtain Apple
Pay credentials. Even if macOS on x86 is compromised, there is a separate
input/output system on the ARM SoC for payment credentials.

~~~
petra
Does the touch bar shows any info when using Apple Pay ?

~~~
walterbell
In the Apple demo, the touch bar showed the recipient and dollar amount of
payment, requiring a fingerprint to confirm.

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agumonkey
Too bad it's not detachable. And flexible.

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wineisfine
Also, lets not forget Apple is under some largely false pressure. We have been
reading time and time again, basically since Cook in charge that real
innovation stopped.

I personally think that this could be one of the factors why there is such an
emphasis on what is basically just a cool feature. But nothing more.

Also, more normal would have been to be able to choose when ordering wether
you want the touch bar or not.

~~~
IMcD23
For it to be useful, they need 3rd party developer adoption. With it available
on just one device, it's already hard enough for them. Why restrict their cool
new tech to an optional status? Seems to me that Apple sees this as the future
of interacting with your Mac. They are going to push it as hard as they can to
drive adoption.

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ksec
I actually want a flexible Touch Bar on my wrist instead of a watch.

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hathym
the whole feature was not necessary, they could have done the same with a
simple app on iPhone

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hash-set
Gimmick. Next question.

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ommunist
Ah, that explains the price tag change, its a bundle deal!

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dfar1
Next version touch bar takes half of the bottom, and then eventually we will
just have 2 ipads. It's the beginning of the end.

