
In High-Tech Japan, the Fax Machines Roll On (2013) - gwern
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fax-machine-is-anything-but-a-relic.html?pagewanted=all
======
Zikes
> Experts say government offices prefer faxes because they generate paperwork
> onto which bureaucrats can affix their stamps of approval, called hanko.

This is likely a much more key point to the article than it lets on. In much
of Japan's society, the physical personalized stamp is used in the same way
the West uses signatures, and not just within the bureaucracy.

More information:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqeuM3vo3GU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqeuM3vo3GU)

~~~
allendoerfer
Same in Germany. Letters sent by fax legally count as "written" correspondence
while email does not. I am 23 and I can remember times, when I (theoretically)
had to cryptographically sign a PDF to send even an invoice by email.

In private homes fax machines are the exception but in businesses of every
size, they are still pretty common.

Our chancellor famously said in 2013 "The internet is new land for all of us."
[0]

We keep inventing technologies like De-Mail [1] or the chip on our ID card [2]
to authenticates you online - if you could only find a services that
implements the protocol and you would have the required card reader. I guess
most of this audience would not even understand the need for an offline ID
card …

Focus on security is a good thing - especially when I read stories about how
criminals claim refunds from other people's IRS accounts in the US, but email
is in no way easier hackable for the average person than postal letters are.
And postal addresses will not give you unique identification either.

I also love when I ask the German version of the IRS a quick question by email
and get the answer back by postal letter with my email printed and attached to
it. Gives me the warm feeling, that you can count on some things to stay the
same. :D

[0]:
[http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/neuland](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/neuland)

[1]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Mail](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-
Mail)

[2]:
[http://www.personalausweisportal.de/EN/Citizens/Electronic-I...](http://www.personalausweisportal.de/EN/Citizens/Electronic-
Identification/Electronic-Identification_node.html)

~~~
akoeplinger
I'm a bit surprised that you don't seem to have an equivalent of the
Handysignatur [0] (eID based on mobile phone) we have in Austria. It's getting
more and more popular here, I guess because all you need is a mobile phone
(who has a card reader after all?).

I find it incredibly convenient as it gives you immediate access to a growing
list of e-government services [1], as well as signing PDFs and even things
like a service for cancelling subscriptions online [2].

[0]: [https://www.handy-
signatur.at/hs2/home.aspx?language=en](https://www.handy-
signatur.at/hs2/home.aspx?language=en)

[1]: [https://www.handy-
signatur.at/hs2/?site=infos/applications](https://www.handy-
signatur.at/hs2/?site=infos/applications)

[2]: [http://www.online-kuendigen.at/](http://www.online-kuendigen.at/)

~~~
allendoerfer
Correct me if I am wrong, but these services seem to be designed by the
private sector for people to use, while the government implements it, where it
makes sense. Meanwhile in Germany these services are designed by the
government and implemented by the private sector and are therefore hopelessly
outdated and bureaucratic.

Handy-signatur.at seems very convenient. You know, something must be wrong,
when even Austria is moving faster than you ;-) I guess our most realistic bet
to get something like this to work here is to count on the European
Integration and wait for other systems to take over.

------
k_sze
My feeling is that high tech Japan is a myth of the past, that never truly
realized itself. Part of the myth probably originated from the futuristic
anime that it produced in the 80s and 90s.

If you look at Japan today, there is quite a bit of pretense of high-tech that
I suspect to be nothing but pseudo-science and marketing crap to drive
consumerism (Phiten for its "health" accessories, and a bunch of well-known
brands like Panasonic jumping on the alkaline water bandwagon).

~~~
mikesickler
I don't think it was a myth based on anime or otherwise. Japan did seem
genuinely high-tech when I first arrived here 20 years ago. Talking elevators
and high-tech toilets. Consumer electronics that were at least two years ahead
of what was available in the US. Car navigation and mobile phones were way
more advanced than in other countries at the time.

~~~
free2rhyme214
The great question is: why did this stop?

~~~
mikesickler
Two trends come to mind: 1) Japan has been mired in an economic malaise for
nealy 20 years, and 2) much of tech innovation has migrated from hardware to
software, and Japan is more of a hardware innovator.

~~~
z92

        much of tech innovation has migrated from hardware
        to software, and Japan is more of a hardware innovator.
    

This one. East Asia badly lacks in software.

------
jpatokal
Representative anecdote of the day: Shibuya ward in Tokyo became the first
city in Japan to approve registered civil (same-sex) partnerships last week.
They received over 1,000 complaints from all around the country... most of
them by fax.

[http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20150331-00000535-san-
soci](http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20150331-00000535-san-soci) (sorry,
Japanese only)

------
ramgorur
I think every society has their own style of 'fixation', like in US, you can
pay with a 'signed check' at a coffee shop, even if it's a 3.5$ bill.

Then the shop owner collects those checks and go to the bank on the next day,
I am not sure what happens if a check gets dishonoured though.

~~~
jordanb
Nobody pays at a cafe with checks anymore, and I expect most cafes won't
actually accept them.

We use paper checks to pay things like rent and the gas bill, or for person-
to-person payments, because the banks refuse to provide a better system for
that kind of payment. ACH exists but it's very difficult to use: it involves
filling out forms and signing wavers.

~~~
pedrosorio
[https://www.clearxchange.com/payments/](https://www.clearxchange.com/payments/)

[https://www.bankofamerica.com/onlinebanking/education/how-
to...](https://www.bankofamerica.com/onlinebanking/education/how-to-send-
money-online.go)

[https://www.wellsfargo.com/online-
banking/transfers/surepay/](https://www.wellsfargo.com/online-
banking/transfers/surepay/)

[https://www.chase.com/online-banking/quickpay](https://www.chase.com/online-
banking/quickpay)

~~~
chronomex
Most of these gracefully (?) degrade to sending a paper cheque in the mail, if
the recipient isn't a party to their payment system.

------
bigwill
“There is still something in Japanese culture that demands the warm, personal
feelings that you get with a handwritten fax,” said Mr. Sugahara, 43. A quote
from the article. Never in my life have I imagined nostalgia power of the fax
machine.

------
veidr
Previously:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5232823](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5232823)

------
pdq
(2013)

~~~
dang
Thanks, added.

