

Poll: Preferred alternate JVM language - codemonkeyland
http://thecodegeneral.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/jvm-language-popularity/

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nefreat
I think a better way to phrase the poll would be: Which alternative JVM
language do you actively use most?

I've met a lot of people who like and use groovy and have it in production but
almost nobody who actively uses clojure or scala. Maybe I am biased by my
social circle or maybe people are just answering the poll based on what
language they think is coolest and not the one they actually use.

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pivo
Depends on what you want to know of course but I'm more interested in what
people would prefer to use. I'd imagine that many people are still using Java
and I wonder how many would prefer to switch.

For me, I use Scala at work now but I'd prefer to use Clojure. Probably an
even better poll would be what do you use and what would you prefer to use.

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bwarp
I know this is about the alternatives, and I'm probably absolutely mad, but I
still prefer Java over all the new alternatives.

It still feels "solid" and dependable and without much fluff.

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thevegetarian
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2952732/samples-of-
scala-...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2952732/samples-of-scala-and-
java-code-where-scala-code-looks-simpler-has-fewer-lines/)

~~~
bwarp
I only have one comment to reply to that with:

null, Null, None, Nil

At least I know which null I'm referring to in Java!

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thevegetarian
Very important feature that. I usually choose my language based on such
important considerations. Busy deleting my Scala code as I write this and
rewriting it into Java code 5-10 times the size so I don't have to suffer from
being confused between null and None. Something in the back of my head tells
me it has something to do with the infamous null pointer exception...

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bwarp
I'm not confused between null and None. That's obvious and wholly pointless.

You should know that you must initialise all types to a default value. Then
you don't need a language feature for "None". Being lazy or stupid is not a
reason to add a language feature.

Oh and none of my code has thrown an NPE for over 10 years. That was when I
started using pre and post condition checking which ultimately solves a lot
more problems than some language feature.

There is nowt wrong with null, if you truly understand what it is.

~~~
thevegetarian
That's a lot like arguing that since my C++ code hasn't segfaulted or leaked
memory in 10 years that garbage collection in Java is essentially pointless. I
also don't see much need for classes in that new-fangled C++ thing since my
assembler code has a "solid" feel to it and has worked reliably for years.
Being too lazy to initialize registers correctly is not a reason to add more
features.

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mark_l_watson
I didn't like this poll, with only being able to make one choice. Should be a
"favorites" poll. I rely pretty heavily on both Clojure and JRuby for my work,
and for experimental learning projects. I would have liked to vote for both
languages.

Edit: I just took the poll a second time, problem solved :-)

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Bobthegoat
At least the list of languages is looks reasonably exhaustive. No inclusion of
Mirah or Nice though.

~~~
thevegetarian
According to Wikipedia work on Nice slowed around 6 years ago...
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_(programming_language)>

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stewbrew
A rather useless question. The word "prefer" is much too vague.

I'd be rather interested in how much experience people actually have with
these languages and whether they plan to continue using that language in
future projects.

~~~
thevegetarian
The popularity of a language is important. If developers don't like a language
they won't use it. Look at Ruby a few years ago as an example of a popular
language which was hardly used which became on of the most widely used
scripting languages in modern times.

~~~
stewbrew
I'm not sure though whether "prefer" (prefer for or as what?) actually
measures popularity ... but what kind of popularity anyway? Fanboy-fellowship?
People actually using it for work that earns them a living? Hearsay/gossip?

With respect to your ruby example, I have been using ruby for about 10 years
but stopped doing so a few years ago. So please excuse me if I fail to see
your point. :-)

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thevegetarian
Commonly used and popular are not the same thing. I happen to know a number of
developers who hate Java, but code in Java for a living. By popular I mean
number of developers who actually enjoy using the language. There are better
ways to measure usage e.g. job ads on indeed.com.

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thebluesky
This could be a rather interesting poll. Might provide some data around the
popularity of alternate JVM languages rather speculating.

~~~
thebluesky
Voting has only just started, but Scala in the lead for now :)

~~~
thevegetarian
Not so fast... Clojure also getting some votes.

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thevegetarian
Xtend and Ceylon faring extremely badly, Kotlin only slightly better. Looks
like a 2 horse race with Scala and Clojure in front.

~~~
pjmlp
The JVM is already crowded.

Personally I think Xtend, Ceylon and for that matter Kotlin are "me too"
languages, just trying to get some piece of the pie, and most likely won't go
nowhere.

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pjmlp
I did vote on Scala, but actually I would rather that we return to languages
that compile direct to native code.

~~~
dkersten
I agree, I much prefer native compiled languages. I really like clojure and
used it for about a year. I stopped because In doing a lot of embedded
development so I need to use C and Ive been using C++/qt for desktop gui apps.
Since then, though, Ive been kinda put off going back to clojure because its
not native compiled even though I like the language itself.

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pjmlp
There quite a few Lisp environments that compile to native code as well. Have
you explored that route?

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dkersten
Not really. I've toyed with both Common Lisp and Scheme and while I love
Scheme for its simplicity and minimalism (at the core, anyway), in my mind
they're both really quite different from what Clojure provides. Common Lisp
seemed much too clunky and patched together to me, compared to how Clojure is
designed to cleanly sit on top of its sequence abstraction, Clojure's notion
of time and concurrency and even just how Clojure eliminates the need for some
of the parentheses that are required in CL.

I'm sure its a matter of taste (and I actually do quite like Scheme, I guess
just not enough to try and make it work for me right now...).

Having said that and ignoring Clojure, I also appreciate languages with a
little more syntax sometimes, so I guess that's also held me back a bit. I
should give Scheme or Common Lisp another try and see if I can't use it for my
current work, but its hard to set the time aside, I guess.

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serichsen
I'd like to see ABCL in that list (a Common Lisp implementation for the JVM).

