
IBM Plex – A new typeface - uptown
https://www.ibm.com/plex/
======
chao-
This is one of the most frustrating page navigation experiences I have had in
long a while. I tend to scroll with pgup/pgdn or arrow keys (or more
occasionally, space/shift+space) and when I got to the big "IBM" logo the page
just kind of stopped. I thought that was all.

It wasn't until I came to this thread I realized there was more, and I should
look again, but even then it took me forever to:

1\. Realize I needed to put my hand on my mouse, hover the tiny, thin red line
to get it to expand, and then use that to navigate.

2\. Flip between pgup/pgdn and arrow keys. Sometimes one set worked, sometimes
another did, and it would flip at random points in the experience.

 _Why on earth_ would you selectively enable and disable the browser's
interaction with common navigation keys repeatedly in the span of a single
page? I can understand blocking/swallowing one set if you intend to use it
somewhere for something else (i.e. the text input sections), but flipping them
on and off with no other use for those keys while they are blocked? It boggles
the mind.

~~~
BoorishBears
Before clicking the link:

 _grumble grumble_ typical HN, top comment is whining about the webpage
instead of focusing on the content. _sigh_

After clicking the link on my smartphone:

 _Sweet mother of Jesus, what have they done._

~~~
meggar
I thought they turned my iPhone into a Zune for a second.

------
seibelj
From my experience dealing with IBM, I can only imagine this was the result of
5 different consulting teams, assisted by 3 different outsourced development
groups, which was delayed numerous times, then Watson was added, and then a
re-org caused by layoffs, which finally resulted in a website that couldn't
scroll and caused the CPU of my high-end laptop to scream...

~~~
krona
You missed the most important part; it was initiated by a team of lawyers who
were tipped off by another team who noticed the Watson design team were using
a typeface on public websites which they didn't have the copyright to, and
certainly didn't have the license to redistribute.

Almost 2 years later, Plex was born.

(This is a true story, by the way.)

~~~
Maxious
"we are in the process of acquiring the rights and licensing for Helvetica
Neue for IBM" [2015]

[https://github.com/IBM-Watson/design-
guide/issues/120](https://github.com/IBM-Watson/design-guide/issues/120)

~~~
noobermin
I actually don't hate the typeface (plex) but this backstory is just bonkers

------
bluenose69
I've tried Plex but keep going back to Monaco. Somehow, my eyes grow weary
faster with Plex. This may just be a function of my age, so your mileage may
vary, but here's a listing of things that I think make Plex tiresome for
coding:

1\. The lower-case ell ("l") and number one ("1") look so similar that I need
almost to squint to see the difference, if I'm tired.

2\. Plex seems to distinguish between letters by small "inside" features, as
opposed to "edge" features. What I mean can be seen by contrasting "a" and "g"
in Plex and Monaco.

I think it's this second thing that tires my eyes. While I admit that the
letters are clearer in Plex than in Monaco (e.g. there's no mistaking "a" for
"o" in Plex), I find that tired eyes can get enough information from the
outside shape to distinguish the features, and there is a higher comfort level
in viewing the characters, without the extra high-wavenumber twists and turns
of the "pen".

Again, I think a lot of this may just be that I have old and never-especially-
great eyes. But I thought I'd mention these things, in case younger folks find
their eyes growing tired and are wondering why.

~~~
hnarn
Have you tried Iosevka? It's been my favorite code font for a while, mainly
because it's so configurable (your #1 can be changed to your preference, and
has a sane default), it's free and it's slightly narrowed which makes more
code fit in the same space without sacrificing legibility.

------
OliverJones
A new typeface family of this scope doesn't come along very often. Sure,
plenty of new fonts come out, but they contain mostly one to four styles
(Roman/Oblique Normal/Bold) and have a special purpose. Two great examples are
Matthew Carter's Bell Centennial (for phone book printing) and his Carter Sans
(which I use for short chunks of copy).

Kris Holmes's and Chuck Bigelow's Lucida is one of the most recent
comprehensive new type families, and that's from a generation ago. Other
computer companies (Digital for example) helped support their effort.

So this is a big deal. It's a huge effort, and they made it open source and
free. That's great. Thanks IBM, for supporting type designers. No doubt some
of them are early in their careers. IBM's support has definitely given them a
leg up. IBM will help us see another generation of new type.

It has decent ligatures ("fi" for example, look at the Slack desktop app's
type to see what a ligature looks like). It only has one style of digits
(figures, typeheads call them) rather than the choice of proportional and
lining. But this is the 21st century and proportional figures are known as
"old style".

It's no surprise the team wanted to make an artists' statement about their
purposes and choices, and personally I found it (their web site) worth
reading. It was a big nuisance to navigate, though.

I hope IBM can emerge from the cloud wars intact. It's gonna take focus.
Unfortunately, a new typeface doesn't look like focus.

~~~
chrstphrknwtn
Typefaces of this quality and scope come along all the time. I don't really
understand how it's a big deal. Take Source {Sans, Serif, Code) Pro, by Paul
D. Hunt for Adobe (also open source); it's arguably a better typeface for user
interfaces, and is a much better interpretation of Franklin Gothic and related
Morris Fuller Benton gothics (as Plex claims in some areas.)

Also Apple's San Francisco, admittedly missing a serif variant, is a similarly
broadly scoped project... of much higher quality.

Both of the above typefaces have fonts with character sets / glyph counts
exceeding Plex: Plex Sans Regular - 663, Source Sans Pro Regular - 832, SF Pro
Text Regular - 2439.

IBM Plex as an open source font is cool, however I think is of limited use to
the broader design community... the formal qualities carried over from Paul
Rand's IBM logo make it too idiosyncratic to use outside IBM products.

For IBM, I think it's awesome, especially considering it's replacing
Helvetica.

Also, your terminology for figure styles is inaccurate. Proportional means of
variable horizontal width (not monospaced), where the alternative is tabular
figures (monospaced for tables). Old style figures can be either of the above,
however their form is more like lowercase characters (an 'old style') that
tend to work better in continuous text.

------
uptown
Here's the download page if you want to avoid the horrific-to-navigate site:

[https://github.com/IBM/plex/releases/tag/v1.0.1](https://github.com/IBM/plex/releases/tag/v1.0.1)

~~~
SloopJon
Any idea why they recommend TrueType over TrueType? Is that a general
recommendation, or something specific to this typeface?

Edit: From BoldMonday's comment in issue 103: "TrueTypes can be - and in the
case of IBM Plex are - specifically hinted for screen. OpenTypes with
PostScript outlines are not able to do that."

~~~
CharlesW
FWIW: "Increasing resolutions and new approaches to screen rendering have
reduced the requirement of extensive TrueType hinting. Apple's rendering
approach on macOS ignores almost all the hints in a TrueType font, while
Microsoft's ClearType ignores many hints, and according to Microsoft, works
best with 'lightly hinted' fonts."[1]

Also, OTF is required for advanced typography features. Given that TrueType
hinting is mostly ignored, OTF is generally a better choice.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#Macintosh_and_Microso...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#Macintosh_and_Microsoft_Windows)

------
marcelluspye
This website is so ugly and hard-to-use I honestly thought it was a parody (I
still kind of do). Font looks okay, though.

------
zachrose
This is excellent work, and all of the source files and fonts permissively
licensed and available on GitHub.

[https://github.com/IBM/plex](https://github.com/IBM/plex)

~~~
dgreensp
Oh wow, I was not expecting that!

------
ghaff
Too bad the website is so poorly designed. It's actually a nice read through
the design decisions. My first glance at the IBM serif made me think it was
more of a slab serif like Stymie Bold but the discussion of its use in smaller
sizes foes a nice job of explaining the differences.

~~~
throwaway4719
How were you able to read anything?

~~~
musage

        IBM has always served as a medium between mankind and machine.
        Between the natural and the engineered.
        The emotional and rational.
        The classic and the cutting-edge.
        Our most important job is to help humanity and technology move forward together.
        IBM Plex™ brings these relationships to life through letterforms.
    

I was able to read this stuff by first pounding my knee with my fist, then
biting so hard on my left hand I nearly lost some fingertips. But I made it
through it. The challenging scrolling actually provided some additional and
welcome distraction from the sheer horror of the words.

~~~
fao_
I vouched for this because it's a worthwhile criticism of a post. For the
record, you're shadowbanned, by the way.

------
jf
It is a very "IBM" typeface indeed. It reminds me of the typeface that is
inspired by the IBM 1403 printer:
[https://1403.slantedhall.com/](https://1403.slantedhall.com/)

------
outside2344
I'm glad they are wasting their time on this versus being relevant.

~~~
benbenolson
Being relevant? Their architectures and systems are quickly rising in
popularity, their compiler is making great strides, and overall they're
actively breaking into the HPC market, which they haven't been dominating in a
very long time. I'd say they're extremely relevant, just perhaps not to your
specific skillset.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Based on this site, they're actively breaking out of the web design market.

As for the rest:

[https://www.statista.com/statistics/269396/global-market-
sha...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/269396/global-market-share-held-
by-server-system-vendors-since-1st-quarter-2009/)

It's too early to tell if that last quarter is an amazing turn-around trend,
or an anomaly.

------
dssu
This is a great example of how not to implement a scrolling website

------
boznz
Wow, What a shit web site, I'd hate to see what a payroll system looks like
:-)

~~~
thrillgore
Or an iOS app to randomly select between two columns...

------
warent
Am I the only one that finds this page clunky and awkward to navigate?

~~~
draw_down
No, in fact literally the only other top level comment says the same exact
thing.

~~~
warent
Our posts were seconds apart, I didn't even see it until after I made mine

------
nsxwolf
Apple, Samsung, Netflix, now IBM... why does everyone need their own typeface?
Is it to save on licensing fees? As a user, I don't really find these fonts
very distinctive, so I don't associate them with their brands.

~~~
oddevan
In the case of Netflix, it is specifically to save on licensing fees. Gotham
is expensive, yo.

Apple's always had their own typeface, though I don't remember them using one
as heavily as San Francisco. But it feels very in-character for them.

Samsung did it, I suspect, because Apple did.

~~~
grzm
Apple's always been focussed on design, in both marketing and UI. In
marketing, for a long time everything was Apple Garamond, then Myriad. In the
UI, Chicago and Geneva were heavy hitters. Now we have San Francisco. A key
difference with this last one is that it's used in both the UI and in
marketing.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typography_of_Apple_Inc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typography_of_Apple_Inc).

~~~
zokier
> Apple Garamond, then Myriad

The key difference being that Garamond is a classic on its own, and Myriad is
even the default font in Adobe products (at least InDesign).

~~~
grzm
Yeah, the various Garamond variants are classics (tracing their history all
the way back to the 15th century!). Apple _did_ commission a dedicated variant
for themselves. Similarly, Apple used a Myriad variant, Myriad Apple. That
said, my point wasn't that Apple only used Apple designed fonts (which isn't
true), but that Apple has always focussed on design in general and typography
in particular.

------
exabrial
Were the overseas IBM contractors paid in units of "full page scrolls"?

------
TrisMcC
I've been using Plex Mono for my Emacs font on MacOS for about a week and it's
very nice. It has replaced Hack for the time being.

The font has just the right amount of whimsy/flair for me, and the style of
the italics is pretty neat.

~~~
MartinCron
Something I never thought I would write, but here it is:

"Those curly braces are _gorgeous_ "

------
2fifty3
Great looking font, I think my scroll wheel might be exhausted from that
webpage though.

------
Semiapies
The most offensively poorly-engineered page I've been to in years, all to
promote Arial...Sorry, _our totally original grotesque font inspired by
Helvetica, don 't steal!_.

What is IBM even doing that's worthwhile?

~~~
rspeer
The page is definitely poorly engineered, but the font looks nothing like
Arial or Helvetica.

~~~
Semiapies
It's poorly engineered enough to keep you from getting to the part where they
talk about Plex as a Helvetica alternative. :)

The Arial connection is that Arial has the same origin as a Helvetica
alternative. It even shares similar differences to Helvetica, such as the
construction of "C".

------
jefe_
User Experience Goal: Amphetamine-Fueled Delusions of Grandeur

------
FullyFunctional
That web slide show was overdone IMO, but I'm a sucker for a code coding font
and gave it a spin. Fired up three identical terminals with the same text,
colors, and sizes, with respectively SF Mono, Source Code Pro, and now IBM
Plex Mono [1].

My conclusion:

OMG, what has the world come to. It's 2018 and I have more great fonts at my
disposal than I know to choose from. I could honestly live with any of them,
but I'll stay Plex for a bit, if just for the beautiful 7.

[1] I do have other fine choices, like Inconsolata, Droid Mono, etc, but not
enough time to try everything.

------
mhd
I first heard about this from the iA Writer blog[1], where they used Plex Mono
for their own Duospace font. I've been using the font intermittently since
then (I'm still somewhat of a Monaco fanboy on OS X), and I like it quite a
lot.

[1]: [https://ia.net/topics/in-search-of-the-perfect-writing-
font/](https://ia.net/topics/in-search-of-the-perfect-writing-font/)

------
paulie_a
Project manager for that site: "Hey need the most unusable website ever
created, but with a modern feel. Bonuses of $1K for every anti pattern you can
manage to incorporate"

~~~
delecti
Even the term "anti-pattern" too graciously implies there's some sort of rhyme
or reason (some "pattern") to the madness.

------
brailsafe
That IBM System/360 is beautiful. I never thought I'd say that about anything
IBM.

------
smilekzs
"1 vs l" distinction isn't very clear in the mono version --- wouldn't that be
a deal-breaker for a code font?

------
xab9
In 2018 frontend development reached the point where multiple pages with a
working scrollbar seems to be beyond our reach.

In the meantime the "glorious" IBM releases a free font, and this is
newsworthy.

I think the Internet, while started out as something really promising, it's
done for. Let it die, before it's too late, please. Someone, pull the plug,
let's start over. Maybe the next one will be better, who knows.

------
jrs95
At this point I'd wish HN would take a month off of new typefaces similar to
the break from politics ;)

Really though, this is sort of a silly trend. Why does every tech company need
to create their own typeface? Do they actually think anyone is going to care,
or even notice?

------
sunseb
The website is a pain, the font is very nice though.

------
DanBC
There's a lot of people saying they hate the website, and I just want you all
to remember this is _exactly_ how many people feel when you chose to use thin
light grey font on a bright white background.

------
dexterdog
I switched my editor default from Liberation Mono to this and it is almost the
identical font. The only thing I don't like is the mono is not sans-serif so
I'll stick with Liberation.

------
memco
I Really like the style. I think the Google Font[0] page makes it much easier
to see it in action. I hope someone makes a variant with coding ligatures. It
appears that it does not support the polytonic Greek characters on OSX, though
it shows Greek characters are in the set--not sure if that's a Mac thing or
the font.

[0]
[https://fonts.google.com/featured/Plex](https://fonts.google.com/featured/Plex)

------
Corrado
Looking at the character grid near the bottom of the page[0] you can see that
they have created not one, not two, but three different ways to represent
zero; empty middle, dot middle, slash middle. Is there any reason for this at
all? How do you even select a particular glyph? Are they on a different
codepage or something?

[0] [https://www.ibm.com/plex/specs/](https://www.ibm.com/plex/specs/)

~~~
a_e_k
"OpenType features" can let you define variations within a font. There's a
standard one for slashed vs. non-slashed zeroes (not sure about dotted):

[https://docs.microsoft.com/en-
us/typography/opentype/spec/fe...](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-
us/typography/opentype/spec/features_uz#a-namezero-idzeroatag-zero)

------
noonespecial
The f, l, and r hurt my eyes in a way I didn't know I could be hurt until now!
There's something diabolical about that right angle and unnatural narrowing.

~~~
O_H_E
the "t" gets one angle with a rounded curve, and one is 90 degree sharp

------
moreentropy
At first I liked it but then I saw the strange ß (german Eszett, ss can be
used instead).

From
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F) I
understand that that's the Antiqua form while nowadays the Sulzbacher form is
used. But I don't know anything serious about typography.

------
ivan_ah
Looks pretty nice overall, but the glyph for the digit 5 is weird, especially
in bold. The notch on the left goes really deep...

------
taeric
I just recently actually read my copy of Computer Modern. Between that and the
METAFONT books, it is amusing how little of this is new. And those books
didn't claim to be groundbreaking.

Regardless, neat article. It is interesting to get into the weeds of
typography. For anyone this introduced to the topic, dive in, it is a
wonderful subject!

------
benbenolson
I'm actually using this font globally on my system (the sans-serif, monospace,
and serif version), in Firefox, i3, terminal emulator, etc. They're great
fonts, my favorite my far. They're just interesting enough to be a cool font,
but not so interesting that things are difficult to read or look odd.

------
htor
introducing scroll-o-death page

------
jrs95
For what it's worth, the scrolling experience is _way_ better on mobile. But I
don't know how anyone could ever approve the desktop experience, it could
easily be used as an example of what not to do with scrolling. It's the worst
thing I have seen like this, personally.

------
fareesh
Lots of jank on an old Nexus 6P. Granted it's not buttery smooth anymore, but
that was pretty crazy.

Does it load jank free on anyone's mobile device? Curious to know if there are
devices out there with no jank on this site.

~~~
Karunamon
My 6S was having a really hard time here, and this phone isn’t exactly a
slouch!

------
jldugger
I'm confused -- why does 't' have a single rounded corner at the cross stroke?
'f' doesn't have this feature and it doesn't seem very consistent with the
rest of the font.

~~~
grzm
Fundamentally it comes down to style. Two practical reasons are:

\- to more easily distinguish 't' from similar characters, such as 'f'.
Particularly with monospace fonts, rigid adherence to rules can result in
character confusion.

\- to balance the foot of the 't' which extends to the right.

------
bitwize
Nice.

Is it available as a Selectric typeball?

~~~
throwaway4719
Is the website available on any known platform, including any selectric-based
platforms?

~~~
kps
The Selectric has nice scroll wheels.

------
mey
They have a type tester on the page. May I suggest plugging in the following
characters. Wasn't a fan of how they are represented.

lwQ{}vxz

Edit: Correction, it's just Mono Italic Bold. Looks better in other formats.

------
voicemynah
I nearly expected the website would be a disaster even before clicking. I was
not disappointed. Lot of old school companies try to use some effect on their
website just for the sake of it.

------
antoineMoPa
I love the font and the site, it worked well in chrome (android), except some
glitch in the begining. Otherwise, the font is very interestingly and
interactively presented.

------
subbz
Very IBMish. Brutalist designers will love it. I kinda like it.

------
nik736
On my 4k screen this landing page is a complete disaster.

~~~
broodbucket
It's a disaster on everyone's screen.

------
misterbowfinger
I love the general design. But as others noted, the scrolling behavior is WAY
terrible.

Do "normal people" enjoy this type of scrolling behavior?

------
paulddraper
I was disappointed "IBM" didn't look better...the "I" comes off as too narrow
standing next to the other two.

------
NegativeLatency
Looks a lot like DejaVu Sans Mono to me.

Also it is not easy to tell l (lowercase L) and 1 (the number 1) apart in
their monospaced font.

------
rado
Love the font.

------
Ice_cream_suit
I need to claw my eyes out, after visiting that web page.

------
wnevets
I hate to be that guy but that fucking site is a pain

------
amelius
If it's "distinctly IBM" then why is it interesting for the rest of us?

It also makes me wonder: is IBM trying to push subliminal advertisements for
its brand through this typeface?

------
JustSomeNobody
I really thought this was going to be video streaming related. Then I opened
the site and thought, "Ok, that makes much more sense."

------
parliament32
Those 5s make me uncomfortable.

------
baconomatic
Anyone else find these sort of sites annoying to navigate? How am I supposed
to know how much I need to scroll down? Is the site broken or do I just need
to scroll more?

Overall, I'm surprised it's taken IBM this long to put out a font.

~~~
CabSauce
This might be the worst version of this type of page I've ever seen.

~~~
ggregoire
I usually think comments on HN about UX are overreacted, but wow, this website
is definitely awful.

------
tzakrajs
Stop using the word Plex. Stop.

------
Numberwang
Hmm, this is old right? I remember seeing this months ago.

~~~
zokier
The news of Plex started coming out late last year, but I think it started
appearing on e.g. IBM documentation even earlier than that.

------
cup-of-tea
Ah, just what a I needed, a typeface that is "global".

------
tzahola
Their website works horribly in Safari.

------
throwaway4719
This is comically bad.

