

In Europe, Speed Cameras Meet Their Technological Match - pinko
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/01/technology/in-europe-speed-cameras-meet-their-technological-match.html

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lloeki
> _the use of radar-detection services like Coyote’s, which also monitors a
> driver’s speed against posted limits and advises of traffic jams, was
> applauded last year by the French government as a useful driver education
> tool, which helped legitimize the service._

I don't know where they saw that. "Radar-detection[1] services like Coyote’s"
are universally _criticized_ by the (past and present) French government: a
bill passed recently rendering their use illegal. Now such devices alert you
of a "danger zone", and the hypocrisy just grows bigger.

I can be controlled for speed up to five times on a 10km, 20min commute, yet
I've been controlled only two times in 20 years for alcohol.

[1] This term is incorrect, radar _detection_ systems (the little thingies
that detect radar EM emissions) are _completely banned_ , whereas radar
_alert_ systems (where a geolocation database is filled by professionals
and/or the community and checked against current position) were until recently
allowed, and banned recently.

~~~
namdnay
Also, the article implies that

a) Coyote is new b) Coyote is a smartphone app

Both of these are false: Coyote is about 7 years old, and the "warner" is an
independent module that uses the GSM network

~~~
lloeki
Actually, b) is true: see [1]

[1] [http://itunes.apple.com/fr/app/icoyote-
europe/id367345773?mt...](http://itunes.apple.com/fr/app/icoyote-
europe/id367345773?mt=8)

~~~
namdnay
You are correct, I wasn't clear enough in my sentence. I meant to say "Coyote
was not launched as an app".The article makes it sound like it's a new
development.

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zxcdw
What do you do when cameras start calculating the average speed over some
distance, rather than doing single-spot measurements? :)

~~~
ljf
They have these on various motorways and cities in the UK - and they work
brilliantly - once you are in (a well signposted) 'average speed check' area,
everyone slows down and does the speed limit.

You could still be warned that you are aproaching the area though.
Interestingly these use front mounted cameras (to capture the driver) so have
no effect on motorbikes - though the general slower speed seems to slow them
on the motorways.

As a cyclist (and driver) I think they are great for city driving, and a much
better solution than speedbumps or other calming measures.

~~~
jrabone
Except they don't - they do whatever their woefully inaccurate speedometer
thinks the limit is. Since I drive something with cruise control and GPS-
indicated speed, I invariably find myself iterating cruise control settings to
match with the traffic. As for changing lanes, forget it - everyone will be
driving 3 feet of the bumper in front, because the traffic concertina'ed up
when it saw the first camera. You'd better be in the correct lane for your
exit before you hit the averaging zone, or you're taking the scenic route.

Depressingly, I can't think of a better solution. Driving makes people into
assholes, myself included, and averaging cameras are about the only thing that
works. Speed bumps and traffic calming simply cause an arms race of bigger and
bigger SUVs that simply roll over anything smaller than a mini with impunity.

I suppose they could try the Edinburgh approach of simply not repairing the
roads, in favour of spending the money on an overgrown toy train set for the
current set of ideologically-challenged councillors.

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dangrossman
I was surprised the first time my cheap-o year-old Garmin GPS started beeping
at me when I drove through an unfamiliar city: apparently it came with a free
database of red-light cameras and was telling me every time I came near one,
along with displaying the current speed limit. I'm not in Europe.

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btbuilder
This system will help you identify the speed averaging plate recognition
systems used on a lot of Britain's roads, but you won't be able to slow down
and speed up again for the camera.

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Zenst
Not all cameras are static in europe, this is were these type of systems fall
down. Having a subscription to some service that lists were they are and warns
you and is updated by you or somebody else who pays a subscription is ok if
you like to speed about on dynamic routes. Though anybody who travels the
sameish journey a few times will soon know were and when to be mindful of
traffic camera's.

I often see policemen with handheld speed kit and mobile camera units, most
councils in even have cars with a periscope camera ontop that drive around
automaticly processing so many driving violations its just to stressful to
drive. But welcome to the UK/Europe and do have a nice stay as we are watching
you.

~~~
masklinn
> Not all cameras are static in europe, this is were these type of systems
> fall down.

Theoretically, these systems can also handle education by pointing out the
current speed limit dynamically (as the speed limit may change around
accidents or depending on the weather). They can also warn about other
"dangers" than radars, and as the article notes the french govt had coyote
change this last year: coyote now reports the user has entered a "danger zone"
without specifying what the danger is (can be a radar, but can also be an
accident or some other kind of issue)

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qznc
The state should endorse this technology. Once everybody has one, they can
remove the cameras and everybody will still obey their devices.

~~~
nodata
That's a very good point: if the cameras are there to prevent accidents, then
these databases really are doing their job in making people slow down for
them.

~~~
zalew
> if the cameras are there to prevent accidents

cameras are to easily collect fines.

~~~
snogglethorpe
So, you can easily show those jerks, simply by respecting the speed limit!

win for you, win for the community!

~~~
zorbo
You can easily show those jerks by driving at high speed and braking like an
idiot right before you hit a speed trap.

The reason the Netherlands employs so many mobile speed traps is because
people quickly learn where the fixed speed traps are and simply ignore the
speed limits in between, or try to "make up for time lost by having to brake
for a speed trap" (yes, I've heard and seen plenty of people do this).

This is why radar detectors are illegal in the Netherlands.

~~~
BlueZeniX
Dutch people and government are obsessed with (limiting) speed, instead of
focussing on keeping distance. A nice effect of distance is less braking,
which means less energy converted into useless heat and less ghost traffic
jams.

It always amuses me to hear local radio news about yet another multi-vehicle
collision.

In Germany, the country known for it's wonderful Autobahn, you can temporarily
loose your license for tailgating.

PS: I'm dutch.

~~~
Gmo
Ha yes, totally agreeing ...

The worst part of that is when overtaking ... a traditional Dutch driver will
only look to see if he has the place to go, not if the car coming at the back
is much faster than him/her.

So you end up with a lot of braking when driving on the left-most lane. The
"funniest" is to see that happening with Dutch drivers outside the Netherlands
... because drivers from other countries are not used to that behavior :)
(disclaimer : I live in NL, but I'm not Dutch and did not learn to drive in
the Netherlands)

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nodata
And on the metro, ticket inspectors are now redundant: not true, they adapted:
now the ticket inspectors board for one station and switch trains. Made every
service useless in one sweep.

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ovi256
Coyote is a nice French startup success story, also an embedded hardware
success, similar to Parrot.

I'm a bit disappointed that it fits the typical parisian pattern of elder,
management consultants founders. No twenty-something founders changing the
world here!

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josephlord
Automated enforcement doesn't catch the most dangerous drivers (erratic
tailgaters etc.) and it increases the incentive to steal or clone number
plates.

It is pretty rare to see a police vehicle on the UK motorways. I probably see
one on my carriageway less than once every thousand miles and that includes
where they are dealing with an accident or traffic stop. Our roads are pretty
safe by global standards so maybe that is ok and money is better spent
engineering out accident black spots.

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pjmlp
The thing with these systems is when you get caught, you don't pay a simple
fine, you just loose your driving license.

The journalists should inform themselves better, as European I doubt anyone is
easily left of the hook if caught during a police control using such device.

~~~
corford
There is a system in France called Coyote which is completely legal and works
extremely well. It comes with an inbuilt database of static speed traps but
the killer feature is a button that each unit has which you press if you pass
a mobile speed trap. The device then sends the co-ords via the GSM network
back to Coyote head quarters who then relay the info to every other Coyote
user in real time. It's really effective.

Site is here: <http://www.moncoyote.com/>

~~~
namdnay
Yes, this is described in the first paragraph of the article...

~~~
corford
Oops :)

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goggles99
Cameras are pretty cheap, can't they just put more in.

~~~
namdnay
A speed camera costs about 75k euros to install, and then needs to be
maintained, calibrated etc

~~~
goggles99
Hmm, only a government would pay so much for a camera... Perhaps therein lies
the problem though.

