

Revenue / Browser on mibbit - mariorz
http://axod.blogspot.com/2009/06/revenue-browser.html

======
patio11
Are you perhaps seeing the effect of differential distribution of browsers
across nations rather than differential distribution of user behavior across
browsers? (Quick test: filter down to US traffic only, then look at the
numbers again.)

If the US uses Firefox more than everybody else (plausible in my experience,
but check your own numbers) then I'd expect Firefox would have markedly higher
CPMs associated with it. Ditto Safari -- sure, somebody using Safari is
probably "a Mac users ready to spend money, click on ads, etc.", but more
importantly somebody using Safari is not Indian, Chinese, etc. (Picking big
nations with low CPMs, not picking on anybody.)

~~~
axod
Yup I think you're right - I've added an update to the post. It does look like
Opera usage is quite different geographically than the other browsers, which
may explain the difference here.

------
andrewl-hn
Too bad, original blog doesn't accept comments without logging in. Anyway,
here's my thought about Opera.

First of all, the default adblocker is available in default Opera
installation. Right-click anywhere on the page and choose "Block content".

Second, Turbo doesn't cut adds. It blocks the initial loading of
Flash/Silverlight content though. So if you go to Youtube you won't see the
video. Insted you'll have to click on the video area so the browser know that
this content is required. It will download the video dirreckly (not through
Opera servers).

If your website uses Flash for ads you might be in trouble. But this Turbo
feature is very new and only a small fraction of all Opera users run the 10th
version with it.

I just went to mibbit to take a look around and it seems like the only ads you
run are from Google. It's a safe bet in general case but sometimes it doesn't
work well. Here's the thing: Opera is big (I mean huge) in Eastern Europe and
chanses are most Opera-running visitors come from that region.

What is also special about Eastern Europe and former SU is that Google is
nowhere near as popular as it's here not only in search but more importantly
in advertising. About a year ago when I lived in Russia the two major players
were Begun (banner ads) and Yandex (adsense-style text ads). Google made an
attempt to purchase Begun but the deal was blocked by authorities.

What I suggest you is to try to alter between Google Ads and, for example,
yandex ads, depending on where do you users come from. May be that could work
better for you.

~~~
axod
Good thoughts, and good idea at the end. I'll likely run some different
adverts and see which ones produce the best revenue for each
country/browser/OS etc.

eastern-europe: opera=8% usage, compared with US: opera=2% usage

So you may have a point there - Opera users are less likely to be in easy-to-
monetize countries. In terms of absolute numbers, there's more Opera users
outside the US/EU, than inside.

------
pierrefar
Interesting.

A good explanation IMHO is that mibbit is an app with a very techie audience
and these people tend to use non-IE browsers and non-Windows OSes.

I like your explanation of valuing time and I know a lot of techies that use
OSX as "unix without the hassle". A lot of them are web devs, which again fits
with the mibbit having techie audience again.

Did you check for correlation between Safari and Mac? That is, is the fact
that Safari scores tops because people use Macs? What is the revenue of a
Safari/Windows and a Safari/OSX user?

~~~
axod
Amongst Safari users, the split is 8% windows, 92% not windows, so the vast
majority of Safari users are indeed using Macs, I haven't drilled down in more
detail yet though.

The thing that really surprised me was the low revenue from Opera users.
Whether that's because of the type of people who use Opera, or some technology
built into the browser etc, I don't know fully yet.

~~~
fno
Opera has some content blocker built in. Rightclick on a website and select
"Block Content". It supports wildcards. I guess most people who use content
blocking have Adsense blocked. You can disable it per-site too (rightclick ->
site preferences).

I too suspect a high number of Opera users to be very technical experienced.

Also I think Opera users are more prone to be quite cautious about being
tracked online. I know several guys who stopped using Firefox and went to
Opera since Firefox so prominently bundles Google with it.

Last but not least, choosing to use Opera is an active decision.
IE/Safari/Firefox (Ubuntu etc.) are default browsers. Opera is not. So there
is a high chance that the user uses it for a specific reason. Not something
"John Doe" would do for "his internet".

------
Erwin
In Opera: right click anywhere. Select Block Content. Click on any annoying
banner ads which tries to find a block pattern. No default filter like
AdBlock, but pretty easy and a core element of the browser.

I'm an Opera user on Linux because I found it somewhat faster than Firefox
back N years ago but I'm not sure I'm hanging on to Opera out of anything but
loyalty and stubborness. Both Opera and Firefox (which is better at handling
Gmail) bloat up to awful amounts of memory with time (why is Opera using 400
megabyte RSS now after 3 days?))

~~~
fno
Firefox still is awefully slow on Linux. I switched to Opera rather recently
(~6 months?) because of this. Thanks to Opera's amazing session saver and the
quick end/restart cycle I find it much less a pain in the backside than
Firefox if it gets hoggy (not that it ever did that for me, sometimes it slows
down for some reason though).

------
jdfreefly
"as you sort of imagine IE users as being less tech savvy, more 'used to'
clicking on adverts etc."

IE users don't click on adds because they've been conditioned to think long
and hard before clicking on anything in IE.

In fact...evolutionary principles state that IE users who are willing to click
on any add they see have computers that are so horribly infested with nasty
bits, they are unable to do anything useful on the internet.

They've been effectively removed from the internet gene pool...if such a thing
exists.

------
trapper
Just as an aside, does anyone else click on ads for great services like mibbit
just to give some revenue to the site?

~~~
tr3
Isn't that fraud? (unless you buy something)

~~~
trapper
I can't imagine you'd be put in jail for a click?

~~~
axod
If you as a webmaster told your users to click on ads however, you'd at least
get your account suspended.

If any user tells me they clicked some ads to generate some revenue, I tell
them politely to stop doing that, and only click if they're genuinely
interested in the advert.

I think it's a very small minority though.

------
ajuc
Most people using adblock I know disable it on sites they visit frequently, if
that sites has reasonable ads. So do I.

But when anything makes a new window, sound, or pop up without me wanting it,
it means war. And adblock is for such pages.

------
Tichy
"Apple users are good at generating revenue - they buy stuff"

Maybe Apple users are very prone to falling for advertising. That's why they
are Apple user's after all :-)

~~~
axod
I disagree. I didn't buy a macbook because it was advertised. I bought one
because someone who I respect told and showed me how much less hassle it was
than using linux on a laptop.

Maybe there is some truth though... for iPods and the app store anyway.

~~~
maukdaddy
I also disagree. I bought a MacBook Pro for many reasons, none of which was
advertising. I _do_ value my time and will therefore spend $$$ before I spend
hours configuring some freeware, piece-of-crap application. I don't think I'm
alone in the Mac crowd in this regard either.

~~~
Tichy
Of course you wouldn't know it if you bought it because of advertising.
Otherwise it would just be bad advertising.

Anyway, enough of the teasing - as is well known, Apple users don't take
lightly to jokes about Apple users ;-)

------
ralph
So does that equate to roughly $1,114.91 of revenue for those 800,000 visits
that were by the big six browsers you list?

------
tr3
Interesting.

However, I was just about to enable javascript but then I read the message:

    
    
       Look. It's 2009. Each time you visit without javascript,
       another frog dies (It's automatic - wires from webserver
       to frog electricution chair. Took me 3 weeks to wire
       that). YOU are responsible. How does that make you feel?
       hmm? Save frogs. Enable javascript.
    

I won't enable javascript.

Enabling javascript is about TRUST, not technology. And the basic problems
with trust are the same whether it is 2009 or not.

I do _not_ trust you!

~~~
froo
_"And the basic problems with trust are the same whether it is 2009 or not.

I do not trust you!"_

Well, axod who runs mibbit is a respected HN contributor who works very hard
on his client and is also available to chat/help often in #startups on
irc.freenode.net

You however, I have no idea who you are and the fact that it looks like you
created this account just to take a stab at axod makes me wonder who you
really are on HN and why you have a bone to pick with him.

These kinds of actions do not engender trust in someone.

In summary, I'd be more likely to _trust_ axod over you.

EDIT - for those reading this comment later, when I read the above comment,
the comment was written "40 minutes ago" and then I checked his profile, it
stated that the account was created "42 minutes ago", so that is where the
perspective comes from. It appears like he created the account just to say
something nasty.

~~~
tr3
Yes, I agree with you.

But he has earned his trust with HN community. I have not been around that
long haven't earned your trust but that just supports my point about trust vs
technology and his stupid "enable javascript you __*" message. As I am new to
your community, he does not have my trust yet and does not deserve any based
on what I know about him so far.

That might change over time but so far it seems he is making web a bit more
unpleasant for people who do not throw themselves to the sharks by blindly
enabling javascript to whoever asks/orders to.

~~~
Jem
I browse with JavaScript disabled, and agree that enabling it is about trust.

However, I fail to understand how axod is making the web "a bit more
unpleasant"? His message is humorous, and offers more value than no indication
of required technologies at all (which is how the majority of sites deal with
issues such as JS dependence).

Clearly you do not use mibbit on a regular basis, and therefore what use is
your overly critical contribution?

(For the record, I have JS enabled on mibbit.)

