
General Motors Is Set to Face Criminal Charges Over Ignition Switches - adamnemecek
http://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-is-set-to-face-criminal-charges-over-ignition-switches-1432393035
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fma
I think after the ignition switch fiasco the CEO and company has been
cooperative in the investigation and actually admitted fault...which seems
very rare nowadays. I think it's something to applaud and I hope other
companies follow the footsteps later. I hope the punishment is less for "good
behavior"...otherwise other companies will see this and say wth...why
cooperate if you will get fined and punished just the same. Might as well not
cooperate and hopefully have the lawsuit hit a dead end. This doesn't change
the fact that people died and there was a coverup...but to see people actually
fired..and the CEO apologize...I mean how many bankers were fired for all the
crap they did to the global economy. I know, people didn't die but the reach
of screwing up people's lives was pretty broad.

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kw71
Well some engineer noticed the problem, a change order was issued to
manufacturing, new production continued with no new part number was issued, so
someone seemed to want to conceal this from not only the public but the rest
of the enterprise.

As an aside, wasn't this done in "The Old GM" which had its name changed and
liquidated into the new company known today as General Motors?

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hga
That engineer, and apparently the someone who wanted to conceal this from
everybody, was Ray DeGiorgio, who also approved the out of spec substandard
part in the first place (it _appeared_ to work early on).

All these sorts of human systems have a very hard time with a dishonest
engineer.

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jacquesm
It will be tough for General Motors to adapt to being in jail when convicted.

~~~
willyt
It's OK, they're going after the engineers that designed the switch, GM should
be fine... :-(

~~~
hga
But didn't engineer Ray DeGiorgio completely betray them and everyone else by
approving a switch that he, and only he, knew didn't meet specs? While GM no
doubt bears more fault in this, there's no system of this sort that I know
that doesn't have major trouble when an engineer is dishonest.

~~~
jsprogrammer
GM's process is fundamentally flawed if a single engineer can approve his own
part and get it into production without anyone reviewing it or even noticing.

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kazinator
I had a 6th gen Honda Civic hatchback whose ignition switch started cutting
out. It was the subject of a hidden warranty; got it taken care of at a
dealership free of charge.

It's pretty scary; one time the engine just cut out while I was completing a
left turn in an intersection when the light turned yellow.

~~~
chiph
The 1st gen CR-V had this - turned out it was susceptible to people having a
lot of "stuff" on their keychains. Over time it wore the parts inside the
ignition switch and the car would shut off randomly. So to avoid problems,
have only the minimum on your keyring.

~~~
kw71
Yes! Car keys are so big nowadays, it doesn't make sense to have them on your
"main" keychain. It's also bad in a crash situation, because your knee or
another body part can hit this area, so having a bunch of ornaments or a key
collection like the high school janitor is not a good idea. I keep every
vehicle key on its own keyring, with only a tag and its remote if applicable.
This also means my "I feel naked without it" primary set of keys is smaller
since I am not carrying around giant car keys and remotes when I am just
wanking around the farm.

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gorhill
> defective switch, which can slip out of the run position and cut power to
> safety systems including air bags, power steering and power brakes

Had a similar problem with my Kia Sorento 2011.

The engine would randomly completely stops. When this happened on the highway,
at around 90 km/hr, this would cause a huge kick in the automatic transmission
as it fell into first gear, surprisingly it survived (try reaching 90 km/hr in
first gear..)

Needless to say this could have caused an accident. It was definitely an
ignition switch issue, as during that time I also had problem with the car not
wanting to start when pressing the button, on a random basis.

Eventually they changed a relay they said and this fixed the issue for good. I
realized later that I should have reported the issue to some authority, I feel
bad about not having done so now.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Engine stopping at speed/failing to start could also be a faulty crankshaft
position sensor. I've heard of that a few times on e.g. Chevy bigblocks. The
automatic transmission on the Chevys just slip into neutral though, so you
don't get the kick. I imagine you take half a year out of the stall speed
converter lifetime every time that kick happens.

But the big difference is that your failure was very noticable, so you
wouldn't be surprised you lost power steering and ABS.

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formulaT
Did Ray DeGiorgio skip his ethics classes while earning his certified
engineering degree? Did he further to wear his iron ring on the day he
approved this part?

I'm trying to understand how all these safeguards failed.

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gweinberg
I don't understand how it even makes sense to file criminal charges against a
corporation. It would seem to me criminal charges should have to be files
against actual persons.

~~~
ironsides
I agree entirely. However, it has been ruled that corporations are people.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood)

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Aoyagi
You'd think the was some fine print in the manual/agreements saying "any
damage caused by adding anything to the key ring is your responsibility".

~~~
abandonliberty
For the unaware, the defect was weak resistance on turning the key from ON to
ACC, causing sudden vehicle shutoffs, loss of control, and non-functional
airbags. GM only counts incidents which resulted in head-on collisions in
which the airbags did not deploy, and deaths only for front seat passengers.
[0]

I wonder what force is appropriate. Defective = 9 N * cm, recall = 18 N * cm.
[1]

[0][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_General_Motors_recall#Quan...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_General_Motors_recall#Quantifying_fatalities)

[1][http://www.ibtimes.com/gm-recall-2014-pictures-tiny-
ignition...](http://www.ibtimes.com/gm-recall-2014-pictures-tiny-ignition-
switch-part-could-cost-general-motors-dearly-photos-1561011)

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bliti
It's sad to see a company with such engineering capacity to continue down the
road of making shit vehicles. Their supply chain us also shit and as a result
other manufacturers have to buy from the same shit. It's not all GMS fault,
but they do have an immense power over other brands in terms of supply chains.
This company will never die and will never reform. Don't buy GM.

~~~
kw71
If you can forget the 70s and 80s, GM isn't really shit. At least not as shit
as Chrysler. I held onto this 'They're Shit' opinion I formed because of their
70s/80s production, when Japan was actually beating their ass, and was really
surprised when I started taking apart newer models and found a lot of
technology and engineering thoughtfulness in them.

While this ignition switch mess - the lack of a recall - is clearly the result
of wrongdoing, I'd say it's not characteristic. OTOH, Toyota recklessly
developed software that caused loss of human life, even when well-designed
examples had been on the market for years. As software isn't like hardware
manufacturing, isn't that "worse?"

~~~
bliti
It's definitely not characteristic of gm to build cats that have deadly issus.
It ks, however, characteristic of them to build lower quality cars. That's why
their resale value is so bad. You did miss the decades of the 90's and 00's.
There hasn't really been a decade where in the last 45 years where GM was
shined. It merely gets by. Sure, they make some cars that are good. Their
average is meh.

It may sound like I hate gm and American cars. Not at all. I've owned
(currently own), and have made a living fom them. Cut my racing teeth with
American v8s. I drool at corvettes, camaros, mustangs, challengers, etc.
Modern and classic versions. Love them. But love won't stop me from comparing
and seeing the differences.

~~~
kw71
Yeah, GM and Ford are hit and miss with their models. I really don't like the
Malibu and the Korean products GM sells.

I currently own three euro sedans and a Toyota pickup. Probably should have
gotten a K1500 instead of the yota. It would rust less, withstand more abuse,
and I'd be able to find parts when it did break.

