

The badge of ignorance - emilepetrone
https://medium.com/@emilepetrone/the-badge-of-ignorance-185c85ac9a30

======
kyro
The people who react that way towards not just ignorance, but inquisitiveness,
are plainly assholes. If you do this, you are an asshole, too.

I experienced this sort of condescension all through medical school, and my
experience is not unique. There is nothing more embarrassing, deflating, and
discouraging than being made to feel like an idiot in front of your peers
because you could not recall a piece of information, or because a question of
yours was deemed too basic and simple for an expert to waste their time
answering. That is how you stunt curiosity and instill destructive self-doubt.
My most beloved teachers are those who exercised patience and did not treat
any question as beneath them. I didn't take advantage of it. In fact, I was
more motivated to learn and to return to discuss new ideas and concepts.

This reflects on a wider social view in which coming across as ignorant or not
knowing the answer to a question is perceived as a sign of weakness. If you
don't know something, you don't admit it and instead bullshit your way to
perceived expertise.

My point is, people who do this are a net negative to your growth and society
at large. It's taken me a while to grow comfortable with not knowing _a lot_ ,
and to accept that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. When I encounter
people like this, I view them as nothing more than assholes who are not worth
interacting with, and move on to finding the answer I need. What saddens me is
that there are many who are stopped dead on their path to learning.

/rant

~~~
Energy1
>The people who react that way towards not just ignorance, but
inquisitiveness, are plainly assholes.

Anecdotally speaking, such people know more than a beginner, but are very,
very far from being an expert themselves.

On a board dedicated to learning English you can see people who can barely
speak English scoff at "noobs" who can't tell the difference between "some"
and "any". Math forums are full of people who never progressed beyond
undergrad math laughing at those who have hard time distinguishing between
contrapositive and contradiction.

It's a symptom of mediocrity and the vast majority of us, humans, are
mediocre.

~~~
grayclhn
> Anecdotally speaking, such people know more than a beginner, but are very,
> very far from being an expert themselves.

I've met some assholes who are experts. It's just that real experts are rare,
asshole or not.

------
chton
I'm saddened every time I see supposed experts or 'knowers' react with disdain
to simple questions. Even if you've completely forgotten that you were once
the ignorant one, shouldn't you at least be happy and helpful when somebody
else wants to learn your craft? What is that makes some people so inclined to
act as if they're the superior one?

~~~
thirdtruck
It's the "Curse of knowledge" that haunts all experts, and which they have to
consciously struggle against.

Our brains optimize very aggressively when it comes to mastery. Our old "the
beginner's mind" neural connections are some of the first to go. The ability
to empathize (via modeling said mind) is "optimized away" with them.

People say that "Those who cannot do, teach," but the corollary -- "Those who
do, cannot teach" \-- often applies, as well.

~~~
chton
I'm not sure this explanation holds water. Plenty of experts have managed to
keep their beginner's mind, and they are often the very best in their field.
In lots of fields, keeping an open, learning mind is an important part of
being considered a leader, so it should never be 'optimized away'.

I'm also not saying anything about empathizing, even just an intellectual
appreciation for somebody learning your matter should be enough to not lash
out and be a dick. And it surprised me that there are so many that fail to
bring up even that little appreciation.

~~~
thirdtruck
I agree: plenty of experts have done just that, and I would further posit that
keeping that beginner's mind is one reason _why_ they're so good. It
distinguishes them from the majority who go the easier, more natural route of
letting their minds forget.

Ideally, intellectual appreciation would be enough. We're very complicated
creatures, though, and the thing we called "empathy" is a complicated,
multifaceted phenomenon.

------
tux3
Here's my oh-so important and unpopular opinion, because I feel like wasting
10 minutes.

>If you’ve ever tried to learn a new skill, you’ve experienced that range of
reaction.

I actually haven't, because in the case of let's say, programming, I learned
most everything myself. I read and google'd instead of bothering other people
for every little problem.

 _I 'm really not trying to be a jerk - honest - but hearing the same very
simple questions asked again and again is tiring. Try to put yourself in the
shoes of the "jack asses"_. Maybe they act like this for a reason, they are
humans just like you after all.

I know that I don't mind helping but it sometime feels "like people never
learn", imho that's often why others won't help you or will groan at your
cluelessness. Most of the time you could google your questions and get an
answer immediately, that's what I did and that's still what I do. This is
especially true for Python, what you're learning. You can often just copy
paste a working piece of code from the very first result, no thinking
involved.

>The difference between the knowledgeable and the ignorant is that the
knowledgeable took it on the chin, and kept going.

That's where I disagree. If you really need help, and if you at least tried to
find a solution, mention it and people will help you. _I will personally go
out of my way to help you if it looks like you actually want and try to
learn._

Questions like “What’s the difference between a list and a set?” and “A server
does what?” show that you haven't done your homework ! _It 's a bit rude to
expect people to spoonfeed you all the way and then call them assholes when
they get bored of it._

>When people scoff at your questions, just move on until you find the answer.
Know that up front, and when you see it, ignore it.

Or perhaps, try to understand why they scoff at your question in the first
place. Calling them "ass holes" and ignoring the issue seems a bit short
sighted.

>Just know when people balk at your badge, it’s means you are on the right
path. Keep pushing.

Maybe "Try smarter not harder" ?

I'll finally just point you to this thing
([http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-
questions.html](http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html)) which is a
tad extreme in my opinion, but makes its point extremely clear if you can
manage to read through it without calling the author a pretentious asshole and
just closing the tab.

~~~
bgun
> I actually haven't, because in the case of let's say, programming, I learned
> most everything myself. I read and google'd instead of bothering other
> people for every little problem.

There are many ways to learn, and not everyone is capable of teaching
themselves complex skills (even with access to Google). For many, social
learning - _being taught_ \- is crucial.

> It's a bit rude to expect people to spoonfeed you all the way and then call
> them assholes when they get bored of it.

Your opinions aren't unpopular because they're wrong, and I sympathize with
some of what you're saying, but statements like this (the word "spoonfeed" to
describe the answer to an uneducated question in particular makes me
uncomfortable) do make you sound like an asshole and someone not to be
approached by a social learner.

~~~
tux3
>There are many ways to learn, and not everyone is capable of teaching
themselves complex skills (even with access to Google). For many, social
learning - being taught - is crucial.

And that's perfectly fine, it's not my place to tell people how they should be
learning. What I'm trying to say, is that the simple skills, the basics, the
101 is something you should be able to find on your own. Because often it
really is the first result on Google, without exaggerating. I don't mind at
all teaching and talking to people, that's much more enjoyable and does work
better for some poeple.

>but statements like this (the word "spoonfeed" to describe the answer to an
uneducated question in particular makes me uncomfortable) do make you sound
like an asshole and someone not to be approached by a social learner.

I'm sorry about that. I'm being particularly blunt to get my point across,
maybe I shouldn't.

What bothered me is that it seemed to me, and perhaps I'm wrong, that the
author was being unfairly aggressive and judgmental without trying to
understand the position of the very people he's insulting.

------
freditup
I find that I sometimes act like the 'assholes' in this essay. However, the
attitude of the person asking the question seems to affect me a lot: I tend to
be a lot more of a jerk to people who have a very high opinion of their skills
and ask beginner questions than to people who readily admit that they're just
learning.

Why? Because I like the implicit acknowledgement of my superiority? Because
people who think they're great when they aren't are annoying? Who knows. Note
that I'm not condoning my own behavior here, just observing it.

------
A_COMPUTER
I guess I see both sides of this. A Python programming group isn't necessarily
an intro to programming group and may expect people to come in already knowing
general programming concepts. On the other hand there are a hundred good ways
of dealing with a beginner that you can use rather than making them feel like
human garbage. I recognize this as a very real problem so I sympathize with
the author.

------
dmritard96
as a founder at an early stage hwstartup, we have already helped other
founders figure out the pieces that we are a few weeks ahead on. In a world
full of open software and hardware, its nice to see a call for open
mindedness.

