
Magic Leap is experimenting with light-bending nanomaterials - sjcsjc
https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/05/magic-leap-is-experimenting-with-light-bending-nanomaterials/
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Taek
If we're seeing articles like this I'm guessing they are preparing to do
another round of funding?

The only time these guys ever make the news is just before they raise a
massive heap of capital, and this news looks just as vacuous as all the other
news they release.

Just based on the HoloLens having a product out already (even if only a dev
version) it seems to me like Magic Leap is way behind.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Magic Leap seems to have mastered the idea of "Look investors, this next
thing, it'll be the best trust me."

Meanwhile you can buy a Vive today or in a couple weeks a Windows Mixed
Reality set (VR might be 'good enough' for most use cases ML would target). On
top of the hololens, which is a closer product. Hololens fov leaves a lot to
desire, but it actually works and anyone with the cash or willingness to go to
the Kennedy Space Center can try it.

Not sure where Magic Leap is going right now, hopefully they'll release a
revolutionary product, but the fact they never release a beta or devkit on the
chip and projection system they've been talking up for half a decade is very
worrisome.

~~~
DonHopkins
Whatever they do, I hope they rehearse their song and dance routine better
this time.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY&t=4m30s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY&t=4m30s)

~~~
mdekkers
_[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY&t=4m30s*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY&t=4m30s*)

What the actual fuck did I just watch?

~~~
DonHopkins
The gist of it was: "We just fooled the fuck out of google, so fuck you, I got
mine and I want you to know it, so now that I have your attention, I'm going
to waste your time, and make you smell my farts, because I have absolutely no
respect for you. Fudge! Fudge! Fudge!"

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yodon
If Magic Leap wins, which I doubt, it will be because of their deep thinking
about what AR means at the OS interactions level. Microsoft and Google
completely failed to marshal any deep thinking about post-mouse AR interaction
paradigms beyond "give the user a Bluetooth clicker" and "maybe voice?".

If Magic Leap fails, which I expect, it will be because they are approaching
this deep thinking as a never-ending Xerox Parc style research project, not
something that needs to be rapidly racing towards a set of standards and
conventions and API's to be used by 3rd party devs in order to deliver the
intended consistent user experience to end users across huge numbers of
applications.

In Apple terms, Magic Leap desperately needs both their Andy Hertzfeld and
their Guy Kawasaki, and shows no signs of having either one.

~~~
bhouston
Deep thinking is beat by a company that ships accessible products. Apple
shipped AR that is inferior to Tango but is now the thing to beat. Tango is
better but expensive and not accessible.

My prediction, Magic Leap eventually fails and is bought for cents on the VC $
by Samsung, Apple, Huawei or similar. Even an acquisition in the $100M means
everyone but a few VCs were wiped out completely.

~~~
DonHopkins
They won't pass due diligence.

I hope Oracle buys them! It would serve them right.

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amrrs
Magic Leap: Started in 2011. 1.39 Billion $ funding. 6 years, No product /
service delivered. With Apple getting serious with ARKit and Android trying to
jump on board, when phones can rule AR, what Magic Leap could/would do? Sell
to Jeff Bezos?

~~~
rtkwe
Magic Leaps stuff is trying to be the next step beyond phone AR and is a big
step up if they can get their immersive AR right. It's similar to the
difference between early VR headsets that could only track orientation vs the
Vive's room scale position tracking. They're both VR but the difference in
utility and enjoyment is massive. I think we'll see the same thing with phone
AR vs headset/goggle AR.

Though personally I'm not pinning many hopes on Magic Leap specifically given
how little we've seen of their actual device and how vague they are about
actual progress.

~~~
_pmf_
> Though personally I'm not pinning many hopes on Magic Leap specifically
> given how little we've seen of their actual device and how vague they are
> about actual progress.

I like it that they are trying something other than the traditional goggle
based VR/AR that nobody wants.

~~~
amrrs
Ironically their recent patent was just a goggle (as supposed to the Mixed
reality/retina lens hype) [https://www.engadget.com/amp/2017/08/30/magic-leap-
rumored-a...](https://www.engadget.com/amp/2017/08/30/magic-leap-rumored-ar-
glasses-revealed-in-patent/)

~~~
DonHopkins
"There's just one problem: Magic Leap didn't actually create all those awesome
UI concepts. It copied them."

"The images speak for themselves. On the left of each of these comparision
shots, you'll see an illustration plucked directly from this Magic Leap patent
application. On the right, you'll find a screengrab from an awesome UI concept
invented by someone else."

[http://gizmodo.com/magic-leap-ripped-off-those-awesome-ui-
co...](http://gizmodo.com/magic-leap-ripped-off-those-awesome-ui-
concepts-1682716916)

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slackingoff2017
As far as I can tell Magic Leap is working on light field technology.
Essentially the big problem with AR right now is that it only fools half of
the human visual system.

Parallax is one way your eyes estimate distance. All the AR headsets have this
down.

The other is focal length. Your eyes need to set focus distance properly for
the object you're trying to look at. This is where existing AR falls flat. And
why it doesn't quite look real.

The way to fool the focal system is through bending light. Much harder than
two offset displays. Not sure exactly how they're doing it but it sounds like
they're doing something with optical fibre to project images on the retina
itself.

The second hard part about faking focal length is that unless you can manage
to bend all the light coming from the scene properly all the time you need to
have really good eye tracking. Not sure how they're solving this either...

Whoever solves the focal distance part of tricking the human brain will
rapidly develop AR/VR that is indistinguishable from reality. I just wish
magic leap would focus on regular headsets to make some money instead of
betting all their billions on light fields.

~~~
fish_fan
> will rapidly develop AR/VR that is indistinguishable from reality

Wow you sound like me from the 90s. You severely overestimate GPUs and
underestimate the human eye.

~~~
slackingoff2017
I'm not talking about real time though. Pre-recorded light field videos would
already be high enough resolution. It might not be perfect but like the CGI
nowadays close enough where there's moments you can't tell

~~~
fish_fan
Perhaps, but realistic scenes are bounded by the number of lights and
triangles more than resolution. There are heuristics and approximations to get
around this, but I think we will only be able to fake a subset of the human
visual experience. Lots of smooth surfaces and simple lighting setups: think
car shows and apartment renders, not nature.

Realism can be extremely complex!

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maxxxxx
Have these guys actually delivered anything yet?

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onion2k
No, but I suspect the reason for that is that they don't need to. There are
two reasons to release a product. The first is because it's perfect and
there's no more work to be done on it, and the second is because you want/need
to start recouping the money you've spent developing it. Magic Leap are not in
either position. They've not built the product they want to build yet, and
they're not especially short on cash. The fact they've not released anything
means very little at this stage.

I'm mildly skeptical about what they're making, but at the same time the
videos _are_ impressive, and if someone told me Apple had spent $1.5bn and 6
years on a top secret project I'd be hugely excited about what it might look
like.

~~~
criddell
> I'm mildly skeptical about what they're making

I gave up hope on them after Wired did a piece on them and reported almost
nothing. I think if they had something to show, they would have shown it.
Today I don't think they have anything except a bunch of receipts for R&D
expenditures.

> if someone told me Apple had spent $1.5bn and 6 years on a top secret
> project I'd be hugely excited about what it might look like

Me too. The difference is Apple has shown that they can build and ship things.

~~~
tigershark
They have a portable prototype since at least February. There are rumours of a
presentation by the end of this year.

~~~
criddell
The rumors around this company are crazy.

My gut tells me there is a very small chance they are going to blow everybody
away and come out with mixed-reality device that is truly revolutionary.

There's a very big chance that they are going to launch something
underwhelming and get ridiculed by the press. Their promo videos (like the
whale jumping out of a gymnasium floor in front of kids) were probably a big
mistake.

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Pica_soO
Why would anybody stick with such a investment? Either sunken cost fallacy- or
they just have the potential to be this good. In that case, some sunken
millions are actually quite peanuts - to have the foot in the door on the next
layer of devices, who is going to wrap around our daily lives, making the
older layers obsolete or dependent upon you for access to the the customers.

This is the long breath it takes, to sail through the enthusiasm and failure
of a near-similar tech (VR!) and reach a goal. It is not portable yet? Who
cares. The first cellphones where bricks. We shrunk them down two a chocolate-
bar.

One leap for mankind.

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criddell
> It is not portable yet? Who cares.

Investors should. Even though the first cell phones were from Motorola,
Motorola ended up being pretty much irrelevant.

Regardless of what Magic Leap eventually releases, I'm excited to see what
developers can do with AR (or MR). Somebody will eventually come up with a
killer app, right?

~~~
Pica_soO
He who controls the patents, controls the revenue-streams of the universe.
There is only one place where the true, durable spice can be harvested, in the
past, researching it- creating tons of original IP, to milk future generations
for all the tech is worth.

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40acres
HN loves to deride ML for not releasing a product but I have been severely
underwhelmed by AR/VR technology over the past few years. I believe only
Snapchat has truly hit the lotto. I don't mind them taking their time to
deliver the product, especially if it seems they have plenty of cash on hand.

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mattbierner
Don't compare actual products with hypothetical products. Who's to say ML
won't also severely underwhelm when/if they release, especially given all they
have promised

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grabcocque
Ah the snake oil merchants want another round of dim investor money I see.

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msie
Moller Flying Car folks?

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mdekkers
Everytime I read something about Magic Leap it is "they may or may not use
this tech for this product they may or may not be working on".

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notyourday
It seems if there's a tech investing bubble it definitely has not started
bursting yet - investors are breathlessly funding vapor-ware.

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kthejoker2
I am reminded of "nuclear fusion is always 30 years away."

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coob
Real artists ship

