

Building the USS Enterprise over the next 20 years - asto
http://www.buildtheenterprise.org/100-year-roadmap

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delinka
Some random guy designs a cool looking ship. Then he gets his buddy to modify
science (or create new science) to make it seem feasible. Then, Random Guy
creates stories based on this entire thing...

Why would anyone think basing reality on this fictional ship is a good idea?

There's an awful lot of science that needs to be discovered before we can do
much of this. And the problem is that, in a capitalist-driven world
(especially one that must have its profits tomorrow), it's not profitable at
all to do this. Now, I'm a pure research proponent, but picking a goal 150
years in the future for a technology we don't even know could exist (say warp
drive) is just a dumb way to try to Do Science.

Let's keep spending money on alternative fuel research, nuclear research,
medical research ... and at some point, one of my great-grandchildren (or
yours) will see the ground we've covered and have that epiphanic moment where
she discovers proper wormhole travel. Or whatever.

~~~
facorreia
Fiction plays a fundamental role in shaping the direction of our efforts.

For instance, Jules Verne's "From the Earth to the Moon" planted the seed for
the Apollo Program. As Asimov's work on the laws of robotics planted a seed to
inspire future AI development.

Edit: To better make my point, "Robert Manning used to make cardboard
rockets... Now he makes real ones."[1]

[1]
[http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/04/caines_arcade_vis...](http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/04/caines_arcade_visits_nasa_scientist_cardboard_rockets.php)

~~~
delinka
Agreed. But notice that "shaping the direction" is not the same as "let's
build Star Trek."

Fiction inspires us to consider new possibilities, it doesn't give us a
roadmap and blueprints. This desire to build Enterprise is assuming that Star
Trek is indeed a roadmap and blueprints. Did we build the Apollo vehicles
based on descriptions of technologies, materials or even shapes by Verne? No.

~~~
pdonis
> This desire to build Enterprise is assuming that Star Trek is indeed a
> roadmap and blueprints.

If you actually look at his roadmap and blueprints, Gen1 through Gen3 have
nothing to do with the fictional Enterprise. It's just a catchy name. Only the
Gen4 spec gets into "fictional science" territory (warp drives).

~~~
facorreia
True, it seems like the Star Trek theme is just being used for the "hearts and
minds" effect. Which might not be too bad an idea.

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TeMPOraL
<http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28821.0>

The topic ended by:

"Sci fi fans taking on NASA engineers is too funny, but also a waste of time.
We deal with real hardware here.

Locked."

~~~
asto
That was an interesting discussion. It's a pity the forum rules are strict
there. I'm no spaceflight/physics pro but he did have reasonable arguments.

~~~
leoedin
There was no reasonable arguments made. Simply put, _if_ we wanted to build a
space craft of the size or capacity of the enterprise, designing it from the
outside in would be a terrible way to do it. The enterprise is a fictional
concept produced over a very small amount of time by an artist. That alone
means that it is simply unsuitable for the task.

~~~
asto
Rather than think of it as somebody trying to bring a sci-fi object to life,
why not think of it as someone wanting to make space-flight a reality and
realising that a sci-fi object would be a good start?

I posted this article to HN mostly because I wanted to see technical arguments
as to why this would not work. This guy's thinking on a scale that is MUCH
bigger than the current space technologists. Space flight is difficult and
full of challenges but since we have to solve significant problems anyway, why
not solve the ones that apply to spacecraft of this scale? (because this sort
of ship inherently solves some big issues with humans in space like very
little space in the ship, damage to human bodies from low gravity etc)

~~~
pdonis
> I posted this article to HN mostly because I wanted to see technical
> arguments as to why this would not work.

As I posted above, for Gen1 and Gen3, and possibly even Gen3, I don't think
there are any.

The most important good thing these specs do is add in acceleration, even if
it's small (0.002g is pretty small). Robert Heinlein said decades ago that the
way we do space flight now, with ships "coasting" except for brief rocket
burns to change course, is the equivalent of floating down the Mississippi on
a raft. What we need are the equivalent of sailing ships--ships that always
have some "push", even if it's small. The difference in travel times for any
significant distance is amazing (note that current plans by NASA for a trip to
Mars have it taking two _years_ one way!).

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alinajaf
While I think this is very cool and would like it to happen, I don't think
this is a good thing to be focusing on just yet. It seems like trying to build
the HMS Victory before you've quite figured out how to build coastal clippers.

A better short term goal might be to get space stations up at Earth-moons
L4/L5 that we can use as shipyards, resupply and refuelling stations. I think
only once we start building spacecraft _in space_ will transport around the
solar system become more commonplace.

Some relevant links:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point_colonization>

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Networ...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network)

~~~
facorreia
That sounds more rational. But "lets build a station at L4" doesn't have the
same appeal as "lets build freaking Enterprise", now does it? :)

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yaix
You are looking for the "100 Years Space Ship", financed by DARPA (the same
that made the Internet) and others.

<http://100yss.org/>

From the Mission Statement: "100 Year Starship will pursue national and global
initiatives, and galvanize public and private leadership and grassroots
support, to assure that human travel beyond our solar system and to another
star can be a reality within the next century."

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facorreia
Awesome idea. The site desperately needs some HN help though. No call to
action, not even a form to be notified through a mailing list; Twitter link is
hidden.

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drsim
Kickstarter.

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gcb
It just misses the core factor mentioned in the fiction. The Nietzschesque
need for a 3rd war were we would come out as a unified earth. Under one
government.

Also the immediate need to focus on that after contact with the vulcans.

