
Doodling can help you pay attention - ohjeez
https://www.cnet.com/news/doodling-can-help-you-pay-attention/
======
mattkevan
Finally proof! Doodling has always helped me focus. It channels distractions
onto paper, leaving me free to concentrate.

If I can’t doodle in meetings it’s hard not to either fidget or fall asleep.

People have called me out on it, thinking that as I’ve been drawing I wasn’t
paying attention - only to be surprised when I recite the last 5 minutes of
conversation.

Here are some examples, all done in meetings, and in some cases the most
productive result:
[https://www.instagram.com/mattkevan.art/](https://www.instagram.com/mattkevan.art/)

~~~
sweetheart
I've never been able to focus while doodling; I always get too sucked into the
drawing and truly only focus on that, though I usually doodled faces and
bodies, which maybe requires more bandwidth to do? Not sure. Either way, while
I'm not surprised that doodling can aid in focus, I can totally see why people
would take it to mean you aren't paying attention. Not saying you don't
understand either, but its unfortunate that something beneficial to the exact
goal of the meeting (transmitting knowledge) is read as exactly the opposite.

~~~
mattkevan
Yeah, I know. It's especially annoying as when becoming more senior, being
present is no longer enough – body language, and behaviour becomes just as
important.

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melvinroest
Edit: I said it seemed to make sense, but I did a quick Google Scholar search
and 1 study was negative, 1 study positive and 1 study inconclusive [1]. I
couldn't find any meta studies [2]. So yea... hmm...

eh ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

Pretty related, I recently launched a show HN about a free doodle web app that
I made [3]. It is meant for doodling with an ipad, wacom or any other
pressure-sensitive stylus.

[1]

[https://atrium.lib.uoguelph.ca/xmlui/handle/10214/16260](https://atrium.lib.uoguelph.ca/xmlui/handle/10214/16260)

[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41465-019-00124-9](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41465-019-00124-9)

[https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/edpsych_fac_articles/164...](https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/edpsych_fac_articles/164/)

[2]
[https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?q=doodling+meta+study&hl=n...](https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?q=doodling+meta+study&hl=nl&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart)

[3]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21399910](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21399910)

------
MagnumPIG
Sorry for all the people suddenly feeling vindicated but the sample size is
kinda small to make such a broad statement. The "sorta double blind" study
only has 40 participants, 20 of whom were doodling. Plus, it wasn't random
doodling, it was filling in shapes. The other cited study that I can find in
TFA is (presented) a case study, aka n=1. Can't actually read it but if this
is the case, it's still pretty flimsy.

So it's looking good but with the track record in academia, I wouldn't
consider this "proven" until a meta-analysis happens.

~~~
mettamage
IMO this is quite easy to figure out for oneself though:

doodle in class a couple of times and then use a control condition that you
see fit. If you notice a clear difference while you weren't hyper vigilant
about all of this, then doodling has an impact on you.

I've done exactly this but then regarding cycling to work vs. metro to work.
Cycling is much better as I was able to clearly notice that I was more awake.

------
baxtr
I used to do this a lot and people got very iterated by it. I got the feedback
that it seems like I am not paying attention. I always felt the opposite was
true. Seems like I should start doing it again!

~~~
cryptozeus
Well I think may be don’t do it when other people are trying to communicate
with you.

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tstrimple
And here I was thinking it was just a method I used to compensate for dealing
with meetings with ADHD. It does make it look like I'm paying less attention,
but it makes a huge difference in the amount of info from the meeting I'm able
to retain.

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PeterStuer
Instead of traditional doodling I do 'write only' note taking and diagramming.
This is just to be able to focus. The notes are not meant to be ever consulted
as they are (a) deliberately unstructured so as not to put constraints on the
process and (b) a lifetime of keyboard usage has rendered my handwriting
undecipherable unless I concentrate 100% on the writing which would defy the
purpose.

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LeonB
Life long doodler here. Have had many teachers and lecturers express their
consternation at me, but I persist. I often find it necessary to prevent my
mind sort of "zoning out" which is unpleasant.

I always remember a particular incident, when I was 15, a history teacher got
very annoyed and went through my entire exercise book where the left-hand page
was filled with some (IMO) excellent robot/human hybrids, and he used a pen to
deface every last one of them. I didn't enjoy that class, apart from the
drawing, but I did go on to top the grade in that semester. I strongly believe
it was because of the drawings, not in spite of it.

------
pacaro
I used to fold origami in meetings, people got used to it, over time meeting
rooms accumulated cats[1] and rats[2]

[1] Jose Anibal Voyer's cat [https://www.scribd.com/document/357841157/Anibal-
Voyer-cat-p...](https://www.scribd.com/document/357841157/Anibal-Voyer-cat-
pdf)

[2] Eric Josiel's rat (mouse?)
[http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/JoiselRat.pdf](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/JoiselRat.pdf)

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jdauriemma
As a remote worker, doodling is my number-one hack for keeping my hands off
the keyboard and trackpad during a teleconference.

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tyingq
Interesting...I have this habit, and try to hide it so that people don't think
I'm being rude. I do it a lot, especially in 1:1 situations like job
interviews. The doodles are typically topical...visuals of what's being said
in the room, versus innatention.

~~~
folkhack
> The doodles are typically topical...visuals of what's being said in the room

Same - I'm an INSANELY visual person and I draw tons of flowcharts, tables,
charts, etc. to represent notes vs. how other people go about it. I usually
end up with 25-35% of my notes being visual.

It's the same as someone bouncing their leg or needing to move while learning,
our brains work in different ways and I've learned to "go along for the ride"
and utilize it vs. fighting it.

I have found however that in highly corporate environments it is very
unwelcome. I've also had a problem with very detailed note taking (ie: writing
down/typing what someone said verbatim). People can get unhappy if you can
recite the entirety of a meeting back to them from 3-4 pages of your Moleskine
notebook complete with diagrams of the whiteboards. For me it's about
collecting a solid/defensible spec as an engineer, for them it's unwelcome
managerial accountability.

~~~
LeonB
(reading your comment when I got to the bit about "bouncing their leg"
ooops... guilty...)

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cr4ig_
My former boss used to get really exercised by my doodling in meetings. He
tried to bust me on not paying attention until I recounted in detail the
meeting discussion along with several questions about subtle points that came
up from various comments during the meeting.

Subsequent to that, guess who got canned, and who has since been promoted
TWICE to a very senior level and still doodles (during remote online
meetings).

The last is an exercise left to the reader :)

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scandox
I do this a lot. I draw lines and squares and in my mind (as I do it) they are
directly meaningful with respect to what we're talking about.

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femto
What about "audio" doodling as an interesting parallel?

A doodler is typically listening to their subject, whilst their visual
attention is elsewhere. An audio doodler has their visual attention on the
subject, but is listening elsewhere. A piano player I know will quite happy
subconsciously play music on the piano, whilst reading a book placed where the
sheet music would normally be.

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mekane8
I absolutely pay better attention when I can give my hand and the rest of my
brain something mindless to do. Doodling helps me listen and retain a lot more
than if I'm forced to just stare at the subject - in that case I get fidgety
and distracted.

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jammygit
Almost 30% better retention, but on participants names? That’s a weird thing
to remember. Is that just the thing they cherry picked that the participants
happened to remember better?

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mcharezinski
Ted talk about the topic.
[https://www.ted.com/talks/sunni_brown/transcript](https://www.ted.com/talks/sunni_brown/transcript)

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nxpnsv
I did this as an experiment on myself in high school during listening
comprehension tests and found I’m remember details much better while doodling.
I still do it, intermixed with other kinds of notes.

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wrp
If you think this is a new idea, see Gary Cooper's courtroom speech at the end
of _Mr. Deeds Goes to Town_ (1936), where he defends doodling and other
nervous habits.

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justanotherjoe
My personal experiences says the opposite. But maybe that's because I have an
ugly subconscious. My doodles can be very dark/intense.

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Wump
I did this during jury duty, it’s the only way I was able to take in all the
information.

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werber
I do contour drawings in meetings to keep from falling asleep

