
Are Multiple Personalities Always a Disorder? - aaronbrethorst
http://www.vice.com/read/when-multiple-personalities-are-not-a-disorder-400
======
Mz
This article is intriguing.

From what I have read, multiple personality disorder is most common in very
intelligent women who were both sexually and physically abused from an early
age, over a long period of time. I was abused from an early age, over a number
of years. When I began therapy in my twenties, I would dream of six sisters,
each was an age at which I had been particularly traumatized. Over time, some
of the dream sisters melded together and I dreamed of four sisters. I
eventually dreamed of conceiving a child -- conceiving a new self.

I was in my late thirties when I stopped feeling fragmented, when I finally
felt whole. I never had separate personalities, but I suspect the abuse I
endured stopped short of producing MPD. I wasn't splintered to that degree.

I have two special needs sons. I always told them their traits had good points
and bad points. I did not communicate to them that they were disordered. I
believe it helped them deal constructively with being different and helped
them not feel broken or stigmatized. So I have sympathy for the point of view
that multiples are just different and not disordered, though I feel clearly
that my sense of having various personas was rooted in trauma and I feel clear
that healing my trauma is what made me feel whole and unfragmented. So I find
the idea that there are people who are multiple who do not view it as a
disorder intriguing.

~~~
rustynails77
Thank you for sharing your story. I always really appreciate hearing about
people's insights into behaviour, esp their own.

Earlier today, I read five different sources on MPD/DID. The general consensus
from authoritative sources is that the causes of MPD are unknown. There are
theories (and oppositions to those theories) about developmental trauma. I
didn't find any linkage to gender or intelligence. Gender and particularly
intelligence would surprise me if they were confirmed traits that influenced
DID/MPD. If you have an authoritative source that isn't under question, I'd
appreciate if you can share it. It's always good to have your views
challenged. See the following link for some of the controversy and general
discussion. In this instance, Wikipedia summed up other sources I found quite
well.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder#...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder#Causes)

~~~
Mz
I just turned 50 a few days ago, so it has been more than a decade since I
much cared about the topic, so I do not have any sources at my fingertips.

However, at one time, I was Director of Community Life for The TAG Project
(TAG = talented and gifted), so I can tell you with confidence that mental
issues such as autism, ADHD, and OCD are so common among high IQ individuals
that some folks refer to them as comorbidities. The higher the IQ, the more
likely you are to see some issue of that sort. That is something you should be
able to easily verify with a quick search. If you can't, I can suggest some
sources. (I am on a tablet ATM. Providing links would be a pain.)

Some years ago, I was contacted by a woman who had been brutally raped in her
teens. She had dissociated during the rape. She felt really bad about that
and, over the years, mental health professionals and others had given her
messages and attitudes that just reinforced her negative feeling. I told her
that it only proved that something was done to her that was really terrible
and, unable to physically escape, she did the only thing she could do to
protect her mind. I suggested to her that fragmenting some piece of your mind
puts it on ice so you have hope of retrieving it later. It isn't lost. You
prevent it from being outright destroyed by what you are enduring. So I
suspect it probably helps to have a high IQ so you can create complex internal
structures if you are in a sufficiently hostile setting, and then the result
can be multiple "faces" developing. If it goes on long enough, presumably they
can become more distinct than the sense of personaes I experienced.

------
dsp1234
Greg Bear[0] has a theme in some of his novels about "The Therapied"

 _In the early teens of twenty-one, new techniques of effective psychological
therapy began to transform Earth culture and politics. Therapied individuals,
as a new mental rather than economic class, behaved differently. Beyond the
expected reduction in extreme and destructive behaviors, the therapied proved
more facile and adaptable, effectively more intelligent and therefore more
skeptical. They evaluated political, philosophical, and religious claims
according to their own standards of evidence. They were not “true believers.”
Nevertheless, they worked with others – even the untherapied – easily and
efficiently. The slogan of those who advocated therapy was, “A sane society is
a polite society”._

After having read that, it clicked in my head, how the world could be
different if everyone got some sort of mental therapy (since we all have
issues, big and small), and the effect that might have on things like loans,
job prospects, etc. If we all were more aware of our mental health, and it was
ingrained in our society, it wouldn't be a matter of "it's a disorder or not",
it would just be something everyone did because it's just healthier to do it
than not.

[0] -
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_Mars](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_Mars)

~~~
afarrell
I've often thought this was a good idea when trying to figure out if I have
actual ADHD or not. I don't know what the best model for service delivery
would be given how long it takes to actually see progress from therapy though.

I doubt that separate classes of citizens would emerge in Canada, the UK, or
other socialized-healthcare countries though.

~~~
MichaelCrawford
Read "Driven to Distraction" by Hollowell and Ratey. I burst into tears on the
second page.

~~~
afarrell
That opens with the story of an Irish woman from Worchester, right? I've
listened to that on Audible.

------
wmil
It'd be fascinating if these people would read about bicameralism and give
feedback on Julian Jaynes' ideas.

On the other hand there's the whole issue with the accuracy of people self
reporting on their own psychology.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_%28psychology%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_%28psychology%29)

~~~
x3n0ph3n3
Why would we want feedback from laymen on an untestable, and mostly-dismissed,
theory of mind? It's an interesting idea, but that's it.

~~~
rrss1122
Because it's a theory of the mind that was discussed on HN recently. ;)

------
mhurron
Part of me wants to say yes, but part of me wants to say no.

------
lizard
One of the things I find most fascinating about personality is that you will
never find any set of identical people. Common traits, sure. Matching
upbringing, yeah. Similar behaviors, of course. But you will never find 2
people who are exactly the same all the time. Our personalities are malleable
and always adapting to the fit in with others around us, but never quite
losing what they were before. Our Identity is a complex history of everyone
we've ever come across and everything we've ever done.

And we should expect identity branching from individual to individual; even
identical twins who may be practically the same can not occupy the same space
at the same time, so there must be some divergence. But branching within an
individual...How does that happen?

When it comes to analogies cognitive psychology and computer are no strangers:
Perhaps its similar to dual-booting, virtualization, or just a multi-user
system. If that human brain is capable of running multiple persons it may be
subject to the same limits of resource sharing and allocation or just have
ACLs which would explain branching.

We don't understand DID, MPD, or whatever we want to call it. It's unusual and
there's no reason to believe our brains should develop in such a way. Not to
sound de-humanizing but it needs to be studied, just like "normal"
personalities need to be studied.

If people can live comfortable, healthy lives with multiple identities than I
hope we can come to accept it, and sooner rather than later. But we also have
to consider how it affects other people, for example another VICE article was
posted to HN a while bask describing their perspective while a partner had a
dissociative episode:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9144552](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9144552)

~~~
kijin
The computer analogy is fascinating. Dual-booting seems closest to what is
described in the article, since only one identity seems to have direct control
of the hardware at any given time. But if the other identities are still
running in the background and getting information about the outside world via
the one that is "fronting", we might have a more complicated setup where
several VMs take turns being dom0.

In any case, if consciousness is a result of physical processes that take
place in the brain (as almost everyone with a scientific background assumes),
there's no reason why the same process can't run twice and spawn two instances
of consciousness. Benign duplication is a relatively common phenonemon in
biology; there are people with six fingers, three kidneys, etc. who don't
really feel any discomfort as a result.

------
oseinfoac
I used to attend group therapy, and a few of these folks would come by from
time to time. Without exception, all were young women from middle-upper class
families. While I'd never say it to them directly, they were much more like
people with borderline personality disorder than they were like the folks who
experience psychosis or more severe, debilitating, break-with-reality mental
illnesses. That is to say, creative and more than a little bit attention
seeking (whenever one came to the group, regardless of whatever else was going
on with folks - including family deaths and close suicides - the meeting would
always be about them and their alters). I never really bought it as anything
more than identity politics inflected role playing, though I know they would
hate that characterization.

------
axylone
For an excellent sci-fi exploration of using multiple personalities to one's
advantage, I highly recommend "Blindsight" by Peter Watts.

His recent sequel, "Echopraxia", has an interesting extension of bicameralism
as well.

------
hyperpallium
Some ventures require contradictory value systems, eg writer and editor,
engineer and marketer - anywhere there's conflict between parts of government,
corporation, orchestra, etc. Even though some people can switch between value
system, it's a cognitive burden.

Multiple personalities could make it easier to switch value systems; but
probably wouldn't make it easier to integrate them.

------
Immortalin
This could change the whole concept of mind uploading, someone should do a
MBTI test on each personality. If a mind uploaded onto a computer still retain
these multiple "personalities", could they act as anti-virus "software etc.?

------
Immortalin
Scientists could potentially employ these type of people to study "nurture vs
nature" questions as they are better targets than identical twins since they
all technically occupy one body...

------
thisrod
Who would have thought that the only totally effective treatment for mental
illness, Coming Out Therapy, could cure another whole class of crazy people
overnight? </snark>

------
jberryman
My understanding is that the prevailing hypothesis is DID is in most cases
linked to severe childhood trauma or abuse. It seems disingenuous not to
mention that in this article.

------
striking
First:
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlin...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)

Second: There is only one reality, the one we share. Claiming otherwise is
absurd. Some people believe that obesity can be healthy too, and that's far
from the truth. Just because you say something is so doesn't make it so.
Having multiple personalities is not a normal thing, and if it begins to
affect your life (by way of anxiety, depression, etc.) you _need help._ You
can't mess around with this stuff. Mental disorders are serious.

~~~
mordocai
Considering everyone perceives the universe slightly differently, it is
perfectly reasonable to say that there are actually N realities where N is the
number of things observing the universe.

That being said, it is also very true that to get anything done we have to
agree upon those things that are common between our realities so that we can
work together.

~~~
eivarv
Is that really a reasonable thing to say, though? I think it is more
reasonable to assume that there are N perspectives (via our unique
configurations and variations in sensors and systems) on reality rather than
different realities, as there is no indication of different realities (of this
type, in this context).

While it's true that we have to agree upon certain facets of reality to get
anything done, faulty perception and cognition exists (and can in many cases
be detected).

I tend to agree with striking, in that "There is only one reality, the one we
share" \- but this is not necessarily (nor probably) the one we perceive.

------
BigChiefSmokem
I have Borderline-personality disorder (a horrible, and ill-advised name) and
here are some of the most important points I think those without mental
illness need to understand from the other side.

1) It does feel like “someone else” can take control of my mind and decision
making at any moment. In my case, it is triggered by certain emotions. Someone
who is not the “real” me - like the id wanting to break out. To explain it
briefly, my emotional system is not mature (or is it?). When I feel fear or
regret, I feel it 10x stronger than you do. Whether that is a defect of the
mind, glands, or some kind of evolutionary thing, I don’t think that can be
said for sure. I see no real research ever being done in this regard, unless
mental health professionals, neurologists, and evolutionary scientists really
start talking to each other seriously about all this.

2) In my life, I have been routinely misdiagnosed and have been refused help
my many medical professionals, most likely out of fear of dealing with someone
like me. The dogma, even amongst medical professionals, is to avoid people
like me. The only real help and support I’ve gotten has come from online
strangers and their families who are well read up on these things. Most in my
family don’t even have the education required to begin to understand this
issue, and that is unfortunate.

3) Hollywood portrays people with the characteristics of this disorder as
villains, or good-turned-evil type antagonists. Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader
is a good example. Try empathizing with someone like Dr. Jekyll and you’ll
start to get an idea how taboo this really is in real life. And lest we forget
what happens at the end of that story – Jekyll commits suicide to end Hyde’s
reign of terror – and you start realizing why we choose to hide. This leads to
very little research being done.

4) I have a small family, a nice home, and a great career – doing what I love
(hacking). It was very hard to get here. I never finished school and have few
close relationships, all constantly in flux. It is very hard sometimes to keep
things in order in my mind and manage the severe anxiety it creates. Some of
my "side effect" disorders include a diagnosis of OCD as well as the usual
depressive and manic cycles (at non-bipolar levels).

5) I don’t take any medicine. I love what I do for a living and working on all
twelve cylinders. Medication only allows me to fire on two cylinders. You
don’t have to agree with this, but I need you to understand this choice.

6) I don’t actually feel any less “normal” than the rest of you. You wouldn’t
notice me if we engaged in small talk. People who really know me often say I
have a good heart, but can be very calculating and cruel at times. I can see
what they mean. They tell me to try to “work on it” but I don’t think they
really understand what they’re asking me to do. They’re asking me to get rid
of a part of me. They’re asking me to murder Hyde.

~~~
jacobolus
Years ago, I dated a girl who I suspect would classify as BPD. I’m generally
good natured, patient, and accepting, but at least at that moment in her life,
it would have taken someone with superhuman patience and tolerance for abuse
to properly help and support her, and probably not via a romantic
relationship.

Most of the time she was cheerful, funny, clever, generous, and fun to spend
time with, but under stress her personality would do a 180° turn, and she
would become self-centered, calculating, and paranoid. She would seize on any
thought or scrap of evidence, however flimsy, to blame her distress on other
people (her students, neighbors, strangers on the street, her family, me), and
would maliciously lash out at people entirely out of proportion to their
actions, which were often trivial mistakes or entirely unrelated to her.

I tried for a while to be supportive and understanding, but I was in far over
my head. I felt like anything I said to her in her “nice” phase could be taken
out of context, spun around, and used as a weapon, and to maintain a
relationship with her would require continuous self-censorship, impossible
amounts of empathy, and an iron skin for disregarding emotional attacks.

It was clear she was suffering and wasn’t getting the support she needed from
family/friends/school/work/therapists, her childhood and former relationships
had been traumatic/abusive, and in breaking things off I felt like a complete
failure, under the theory that I might have been able to help if I were
stronger. To be honest though, I’m not sure a person/role exists who could
have given her the support she really needed at that time. I can only hope
that the passage of time has helped her figure out some better coping
mechanisms and less damaging ways of relating to people, but we haven’t spoken
since, so I have no idea how she’s doing.

The experience left me an emotional wreck, and it took me several months to
recover. I didn’t date anyone again for over a year afterward.

All of which is to say, I can well understand why people, even professional
therapists or family members, might be unwilling to engage. It’s extremely
unpleasant and stressful, with high risk, for mostly someone else’s benefit.

------
paulhauggis
"Multiple Personality Disorder—are terms roundly rejected by the community,
and most of them don't feel that they belong in the Diagnostic and Statistical
Manual (DSM) at all"

Many people don't want to admit they have a disorder, so it's no surprise that
the community don't feel they belong in this category.

From the wikipedia article:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder)

Most have "chaotic personal lives". It's classified as a 'disorder' only so we
can help someone with these issues.

~~~
devindotcom
Yeah, having worked with many mentally ill folks, I feel this is a pretty
common thing. It's a lot to do with the stigma attached to the phrases. If you
have depression, that's a disorder too... anywhere on the spectrum? Disorder.
It's a word to indicate that you have a condition that affects your everyday
life - where you take it from there is, of course, largely up to you.

~~~
rustynails77
I am not a professional psychologist or therapist. My son has been diagnosed
as an Aspergers - which is in the DSM. I know it's a term that's no longer
recognised, but Aspergers describes a specific set of behaviours associated
with Higher Functioning Autism (HFA). I have had a number of guesses confirmed
about Aspergers kids by asking their parents and then sharing knowledge.

What's interesting for me is that quite a few people in IT that I have worked
with have symptoms that are very Aspergers like. It can come down to an
individual's interpretation as to whether or not their condition is a mental
disorder. Most of these IT people that are Aspergers like would almost
certainly reject the notion of them being Aspergers, even if you explained the
behaviours.

The consensus is that we are all on the spectrum - it's just the degree that
our symptoms are prevalent. For example, sleep deprivation can trigger similar
symptoms, so can over-stimulation. For example, have someone yell in your ear
for 5 minutes and you will exhibit some of the physical behaviours that
autistic children do.

