
Ask HN: HN supported initiative to transition ageing developers to legal? - rorykoehler
On the recent front page post on Articles 11 &amp; 13[0] a reply was left to this comment:<p>&gt;It turns out that regulations are made largely by old lawyers, who are more connected and charismatic than smart and practical, and haven&#x27;t operated in the real-world for decades. (user: dokein)<p>Which went like this:<p>&gt;Maybe that&#x27;s the career path for aging programmers. Get a law degree. (user: jonhendry18)<p>Ageism in tech is a huge problem that is widely discussed here as is the disconnect between technology and law makers. It is in fact the perfect intersection which will result in the maximum value add impact for ageing technologists. Given that HN is frequented by many ageing developers and also quite a few lawyers there is an opportunity to create a community supported initiative to make this easier for all involved. I don&#x27;t quite have ideas on what this would look like so I have created this post to start an open forum discussion where we can collect ideas and see if there is an appetite to make this happen.<p>Please share you industry&#x2F;experience specific or general insights, ideas and thoughts.<p>[0]https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=17449457
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drinchev
I have a law degree, but I work as a full-stack developer. The shared logical
thinking between law and programming is astonishing.

Nevertheless I transitioned from law to working in IT, because of the salary /
career options ( being a successful lawyer is magnitude harder ).

As this seems like a crazy idea, I tend to agree that we need more specialised
IT lawyers, understanding what's happening down to the byte. Unfortunately the
idea folks are not always lawyers, but mostly politicians and this is quite
hard to transition to.

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oldmancoyote
Having programmed for 50 years and going strong, why would I want to submerge
myself in pettifoggery? It sounds like something to be left to naive young
software engineers who need to learn more about the real world.

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justboxing
> Having programmed for 50 years and going strong...

Wow. That means you started in 1968. Professionally or as a kid? Hats off to
you sir!

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jazoom
A programmer older than (Unix) time itself.

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twunde
I'm going to focus on the US since that's what I'm most familiar with. The
generalities will translate to other locations such as the EU, but the
specifics will be off.

1) As others have mentioned the transition from engineer to lawyer doesn't
make much sense for most of the population. Right now, the most influential
law schools in the US (think Harvard and Yale Law) cost 60k+/year to attend
for 3 years. Once you're finished, the typical engineer will see a salary
dropoff along with a major increase in work. This is probably not the way
forward in the US.

So let's take another look at the problem we're trying to solve. To restate
the problem, regulation/law is made by those who are typically out of touch
resulting in regulations that are often actively harmful. We in the tech
industry would like to be involved or influential enough in the tech industry
to be able to prevent these "bad" regulations from being created in the first
place.

Ok, so where does regulation come from? Who do we have to influence? There are
two primary sources of regulation, the legislative bodies such as congress and
regulatory agencies such as the EPA, FCC and FDA. Secondary sources of
regulation are executive orders/actions and the courts (common law courts used
by the US and the UK explicitly look at judicial precedent)

There are already several well-known patterns to influence these regulation
creators with the patterns in use by industries of every stripe. 1) Funnel
more people from tech into careers as either politicians or their staff

To influence regulation created by these there are 3 well-known possibilities.
1) become politicians, 2) lobbying, 3) be an advisor or other person of
influence. Option one is definitely a possibility but comes with the downside
that many of those that choose this path will be older and out of touch.
Option 2 is the one I believe has the easiest path forward. Today Facebook,
Google and Microsoft have big lobbying efforts, although they pale in
comparison to the lobbying by telecom and big energy. VCs already have
informal lobbying they do on certain issues such as immigration and taxes on
stock compensation. Grassroots we've seen the ability of tech to organize,
especially around net neutrality and SOPA. The tech industry has seen
successes, but hasn't been able to sustain it. It could benefit from formal
industry-wide lobbying efforts. As for 3, tech could be more active during
rule-making sessions and feedback sessions. We need to establish relations
with politicians, regulators and their staff.

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rorykoehler
Yes I completely agree. I was considering lobbying as an option earlier today.
Adding to your thoughts, very early stage and bootstrapped startups need to
get their voice out. These are the future power houses unlocking unrealised
potential in the economy. Google et al and even VC backed startups operate in
a totally different reality.

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Bajeezus
I think the massive salary drop off will make the late-career transition from
engineering to law hard to stomach. Someone in their 40s or 50s with 20-30
years of engineering experience probably has a family, is thinking about their
retirement plans, and is commanding the salary of a senior engineer (at
least). Very few people are going to be willing to take 3 years off from work
to go back to school only to spend another few years as a junior associate
making far less than they could as a senior engineer. A lawyer going into
policy or any other altruistic area of the law should expect an even larger
salary gap.

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rorykoehler
What about all the 50 year old engineers who have been made redundant and are
finding it hard to find work? A combination of this and wanting a sense of
purpose could make this an attractive proposition. Also I think forcing
someone this experienced to follow the junior associate track is not a good
system. Surely there is a better alternative way to leverage the technologists
knowledge snd experience. It's exactly things like this that I expect to be
discussed here.

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scarface74
Stop looking for a jobs at all of the cool startups and look for boring
corporate jobs. I’m 44 and never have any issues finding jobs and know plenty
of 50 year old developers. The difference is that we are all aggressive about
keeping our skills current.

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purplezooey
But what's the demand like for lawyers who know software development

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rorykoehler
That can be generated. There are obviously powers at play in US and EU which
are lobbying for nefarious goals. This can be counteracted. Perhaps setting up
a framework for this could be part of the initiative.

