
Amazon Echo Is Magical. It’s Also Turning My Kid into an Asshole - SQL2219
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazon-echo-magical-its-also-turning-my-kid-asshole-hunter-walk?trk=hp-feed-article-title-like
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FroshKiller
This is ridiculous. All this guy says is that the Echo doesn't require you to
say please, and he's concerned that kids might not be able to comprehend the
difference between asking a machine something and asking a human something. He
doesn't actually provide any examples of his kid's behavior changing for the
worse as a result. Way to call your kid an asshole on LinkedIn for no good
reason, guy.

I think people like this underestimate a kid's ability to understand the
difference between talking to people and talking to non-people.

In my experience, the Echo handles a "please" at the end of a request just
fine, and you can follow its response with "Alexa, thank you" and get a
"You're welcome!" in reply. Parents should be able to set a good example
through their own use of the device if they're that concerned about their
kids' ability to distinguish between polite conversation with people and voice
commands.

~~~
Jaruzel
"There are no bad kids, just bad parents." I'm a parent, and still firmly
believe this. If you are lucky enough to be the parent of a child then you
know that kids start off as blank canvases and it's your job to shape them
into polite, well behaved adults. Blaming your kids bad manners on technology
is simply a sign of poor parenting.

~~~
acqq
Yes. And Louis CK would say:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maqSpXzJo8&t=1m30s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maqSpXzJo8&t=1m30s)

"This whole country, our thing is the children. We have to do it all for the
children. And, meanwhile, nobody gives a shit about how they raise their kids.

People put minimal effort into it. They're like consumers of their kids. They
want to call Customer service..."

~~~
ssmoot
> People put minimal effort into it.

I don't think that's true. Parenting is much harder than coding and you don't
get to check out because you're "burned out".

~~~
acqq
Listen to Louie, the link is there for a reason, the quote is just an
introduction. And don't stop listening after a few sentences, carry on.

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Grue3
Programming languages are magical. But they're turning programmers into
assholes.

Enter INTERCAL [1]. In this programming language you're required to add PLEASE
to at least 1/5 of the program's statements, or the program is rejected for
being insufficiently polite.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL)

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6stringmerc
"When people cease to use manners in everyday social interactions, they are
essentially throwing sand into the workings of a machine that has low
tolerances for friction in the first place." \- Paraphrased, can not recall
who said/wrote it.

~~~
Nullabillity
Alternately, when people overuse words like please they lose all meaning.

~~~
arantius
See a recent episode of The Allusionist (
[http://www.theallusionist.org/allusionist/please](http://www.theallusionist.org/allusionist/please)
) discussing the difference between American and British English, when it
comes to the word "please". Brits use it way more than we do. We both think
the other is weird (rude, condescending, hoity-toity, etc.) as a result of the
difference.

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mrfusion
I think we should develop the custom to use manners when conversing with
machines. I know they don't care (yet?) but I think it stil makes you feel
like a rude person unconsciously and adds negativity to your life.

~~~
douche
I'm still at the stage where most of my interactions with machinery involve
profanity and beating on them with a wrench. God help us if farm tractors ever
achieve sentience

~~~
lakkal
A mid-80s movie called "Maximum Overdrive" (based on a Steven King story)
explores this...

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pieter1976
Sorry, no, it's the parents' responsibility to teach children how to interact
in all sorts of situations.

Amazon Echo is no different. This person needs to deal with their child and
not blame technology.

~~~
caf
I don't think you understand how children are taught.

Simply _telling_ them how they should behave is not very successful. More
successful techniques include modelling good behavior, positively reinforcing
good behavior, and avoiding reinforcing bad behavior.

The writer's observation here is that by responding to impolite orders, the
Echo is reinforcing bad behavior (if a child tries the same thing on a parent,
they will generally _not_ get want they are asking for).

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mavhc
I await the retort: Crappy blog posts are turning my father into an asshole

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jkot
> _Cognitively I’m not sure a kid gets why you can boss Alexa around but not a
> person._

Because as a parent you let them to boss you around. Children know difference
between person and a dog (or computer program in this case).

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b3lvedere
It's a machine! You should not teach kids to say please or thank you to
machines, but to treat machines how they should be treated. RTFM. So teach
them not to destroy the machine.

After warranty expires, teach them how to hack/abuse/overlock/add cool
features to the machine.

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DanielBMarkham
There is a moral theory that slavery is bad, but not because of what it does
to the slaves. Slavery is bad because of what it does to the slaveholders. It
duhumanizes our relationship with the outside world.

I'm just tossing that out there. It's something I need to think much more
about. But this might be an idea that gains a lot more traction over the next
few decades as AI takes off.

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damon_c
Amazon should add a "please required" setting. It would be good training for
all of us.

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nikolay
I have Echo since the beta. My kids use it all the time and they are not
turning into assholes. The only negative side is showing them how immature AI
is as they get frustrated and often laugh when their simple questions or
commands don't get processed.

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bryanlarsen
Is Echo better than its competition? XBox One, Siri and Google don't reliably
understand my kids. They're 4 and 6.

~~~
silverlight
It's way better. My Echo understands my 5 year old even with complicated
phrases like "Alexa play Secret Agent Man on Spotify". His pronunciation isn't
perfect but it still, amazingly, works.

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throw7
"Alexa, Make Me A Sandwich!"

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phatbyte
Ok, so in a nutshell this guy wants a machine to do parenting for him.
Education should come from parents primarily. Not teachers, or friends and
definitely not a machine.

~~~
kbutler
I agree that parents should provide primary influence and values education -
though Neal Stephenson's "Diamond Age: A Young Girl's Illustrated Primer" had
some really interesting ideas on educating:
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/827.The_Diamond_Age](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/827.The_Diamond_Age)

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andrewfromx
we're having a baby girl soon. should I name her Alexa? everyone in our house
is aready used to screaming that name.

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brador
Linguistic bloat and beggery from the Victorian school system of the ex-
British Empire.

The sooner it's lost the better.

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iammew
Wire hangers are turning my kid into an asshole.

