
A German Couple Winds Up on U.S. No-Fly List - dredmorbius
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/a-german-couple-winds-up-on-the-u-s-no-fly-list-a-1227620.html
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YeGoblynQueenne
>> In September 2014, the list of people not allowed to fly into the U.S. or
through U.S. airspace contained 64,000 names. Before 9/11, only 16 people had
been on it.

Oh. So there are ways to quantify the rise of paranoia in US security agencies
following 9/11, after all.

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gumby
The whole idea of a "no fly list" is absurd. People have their rights
restricted without being accused, much less convicted, of any crime. It's
astonishing it's passed constitutional muster (for US citizens anyway).

~~~
lawnchair_larry
But wouldn’t it be more absurd to wait until _after_ someone hijacked a plane
before putting them on the no fly list?

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ex3xu
No, it wouldn't, under the United States Constitution and the American justice
system with its roots in common law.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation)

But it does seem the modern American ethos seems to be one that is losing its
courage and backbone, with more and more people preferring security theater to
freedom on principle.

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theaeolist
The little story at the very end of the article is ominous. If an airline
wants to refuse boarding they can say "you are on the US no-fly list" because
you can't easily check that you aren't -- unless you are willing to risk
buying another ticket just to make sure.

~~~
close04
The other option is to openly record the conversation when you are guven such
a ridiculous reason. Might not hold up in a court of law but it will sure hold
up in the court of social media.

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tuco86
How about a EU no-fly list for personal of the US Intelligence Community. I
mean, don't even cross our airspace. 0o

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guitarbill
Going to be hard and would be ineffective. For one, America still has several
military bases in Germany alone e.g. Ramstein, which was used by the CIA in
the Milan kidnapping [0][1].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case)

[1] Black Hat talk:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwGsr3SzCZc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwGsr3SzCZc)

~~~
tuco86
If it was easy and effective, I would not really want that either. Just some
counter pressure against these practices.

I just feel that there should be mutual respect of our countries citizens. We
don't stop Americans from visiting our country or our neighbors countries. We
don't ask for their passwords on entry either.

I'd like the same rights to visit your country as you have visiting mine.

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masonic

      We don't stop Americans from visiting our country 
    

You're sure of this? Have you actually checked?

Heck, for one example, the UK has banned an American radio talkhosr just for
his commentary, with no criminal charges on either side of the pond. A nation
is entitled to choose its guests (aside from diplomats).

~~~
jai_
Are you talking about Alex Jones?

He doesn't seem to be on this list, but please add him if you can find a
reliable source:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_banned_from_ent...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_Kingdom)

~~~
dagw
Michael Savage. While I agree he's said some pretty terrible things, I do find
it kind of weird that he's on that list when so many other similar people
aren't. They should really either remove his name or add like 50 other names.

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newnewpdro
It has become rather embarrassing to be a tax-paying US citizen.

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captain_perl
You have to read the story to understand what really happened.

They have German passports, but are of Kurdish, Tunisian and Turkish origins
and have had previous travel issues.

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rurban
Yes, their previous travel issue was being interviewed at the Turkish border,
a friend of his admitted that he was not a fan of Erdogan. Come on. The US
based on that complaint put them on their nofly list. That's a banana republic
violating their own constitution.

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masonic
This doesn't make sense to me. Eurowings flies non-stop Munich to Havana, and
there is no _need_ to cross US airspace on that route, nor would that be
relevant with no stops in US airports.

