
Elon Musk personally cancels blogger's Tesla order after 'rude' post - mattmanser
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/03/elon-musk-blogger-tesla-motors-model-x
======
dsp1234
Reading the twitter comments at
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/694802955170553861](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/694802955170553861)
is super depressing. The mob cheering for blood.

It's a bad review of an event that was poorly executed. Turning around and
cancelling a preorder is just childish.

I honestly hadn't realized that he had such thin skin.

~~~
gvb
The skin has always been thin. This is the same company that had a three-year
(losing) libel battle with Top Gear for a bad review.

[http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/05/top-gear-
tesla-...](http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/05/top-gear-tesla-jeremy-
clarkson)

~~~
beeboop
"Bad review" is misleading. They sued because they outright lied in the review
(saying the battery died when it did not). Not really any different from NBC
rigging the Chevrolet truck explosion back in the 90s, in which NBC lost tons
of credibility and was sued by GM for libel (and settled for $1mm). Both were
journalistic bullshit, but everyone loves Jeremy too much to call him on it.

~~~
gvb
a) They _implied_ it ran out of battery, they did not actually say it was out
of battery: _Tesla complained about a passage of Clarkson 's commentary in
which he said: "Although Tesla say it will do 200 miles, we worked out that on
our track it would run out after just 55 miles and if it does run out, it is
not a quick job to charge it up again." Clarkson and others are then shown
pushing the Roadster into the Top Gear hangar and recharging it._ Note that he
says "worked it out", indicating calculations. They then reinforced the
viewer's natural misconception by pushing the car (unnecessarily) to the
charger.

b) Appeal court judge Lord Justice Moore-Bick ruled that the programme did not
libel Tesla.

c) Everybody except Tesla knows Top Gear is an entertainment show that uses
cars as props, just like Mork and Mindy was an entertainment show poking fun
of human foibles, not a show about aliens.

~~~
beeboop
a) The point was made very plainly regardless of how implied it was. I don't
think the pedantic details of it really matter.

b) I care less about the legality of it and more about the ethics of it

c) Literally the first sentence of each Top Gear presenter on Wikipedia labels
them as a journalist. Make whatever label you want for the TV show, the
content is largely journalistic. The segment about the Roadster was largely
journalistic. The can hide behind the "it's just entertainment" veil as much
as they want, but it's a huge grey area at best. Regardless of this, you can
still libel and be damagingly deceitful even without being a journalistic
program - as far as morals go, it is only slightly less shitty.

~~~
mattmanser
I'm not sure appealing to Wikipedia mentioning the word journalist is going to
win you any points.

If you watched Top Gear even occasionally you'd know how rediculous it is
claiming that Top Gear is serious news rather than an opinion-based
entertainment show.

I actually remember a banter they did about the Ford GT that Jeremy owned
having to stop at every gas station just to have enough gas to get to the
studio. It's not like they're picking on Tesla, exaggeration is a form of
comedy and they regularly exaggerated everything in the show.

~~~
beeboop
I don't see why it shouldn't. Claiming Top Gear is completely devoid of any
journalistic content is absurd, and the fact that it is presented by three
__journalists __drives this home. Being on is Wikipedia is irrelevant, the
point is they are all journalists and widely accepted and labeled as such.

~~~
mattmanser
On the show they are presenters in a comedy driven magazine-style opinion
show.

That they are journalists elsewhere is utterly irrelevant, also they would
more properly be called columnists these days rather than journalists as their
work in print now is usually opinion based and presented as such.

Even wikipedia splits up James May's journalistic career and his Top Gear
presenting:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_May#Journalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_May#Journalism)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_May#Radio_and_television](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_May#Radio_and_television)

There's virtually no mention of journalism on Richard Hammond's page (and no
evidence that he actually is one).

Jeremy Clarkson was a journalist for actual papers before he started
presenting Top Gear.

------
ballooney
Elon Musk could start an energy company which renders down baby seals and
burns the blubber and HN would say its usual thing like 'Actually this is a
really smart move by Elon' (everyone here seems to be on first-name terms with
him). This place would be greatly improved by some perspective.

He's built a very cool rocket company, but on HN people take the CTO title at
face value and assume he's a genius rocket scientist. He's built a cool car
company, and is right to focus on battery technology and solar being better
than biofuels etc etc. I admire him a lot, but i think a lot of people project
their ideals onto him as a sort of symbol of the primacy of the Valley Way,
which they're staking their twenties and thirties on. Whilst taxonomy doesn't
really achieve much, I sort of think of him as more Henry Ford than some sort
of Tony Stark/Einstein hybrid that is often seen here.

Like I said, there's a lot to admire, but he's just a guy still. Petty,
tantrums, lots of SpaceXers i know (current and former) talk about how really
you have to go to Gwynne Shotwell for some sober leadership and patience when
he jumps the shark a bit, and she can speak truth unto power and figure out a
way forward. She never gets mentioned from from what one hears in this
industry (I'm in it to) she deserves a lot of credit.

~~~
dsp1234
_' Actually this is a really smart move by Elon' (everyone here seems to be on
first-name terms with him)_

Except the majority of the comments so far imply that's it's actually not a
good move. Also, no one in the thread has yet mentioned him by first name
(there are only 3 occurrences of 'Elon' in this thread with 2 being by full
name, and then your hypothetical HN commenter being the only that uses it
alone)

~~~
lumisota
let's not let the facts get in the way of a good rant

------
argonaut
This was a Silicon Valley venture capitalist publicly complaining about Tesla,
not a random blogger. So there is almost certainly a different social dynamic
at play that we are missing.

Silicon Valley is a relatively small world; venture capital is even smaller
and more incestuous. While most people here have not heard of Stewart Alsop,
Elon Musk almost certainly knew of him, even if they've never met. Elon Musk
may have been insulted because venture capitalists in SV are generally not
expected to so openly criticize other SV companies (especially those funded by
rivals?), and when they do criticize companies, they certainly don't insult
founders. You can't deny that "you should be ashamed of yourself" is insulting
to Elon.

~~~
onli
Course you can deny that. It is nowhere near an insult to call someone out on
the behavior described in the article, and to tell someone he ought to feel
ashamed is also not an insult.

~~~
argonaut
You are missing the human aspect. An insult can be true but still insulting.
If a random person calls me on the phone and tells me that I was incredibly
lazy this weekend and I'm just a lazy, lazy person on the weekends, that would
be true, but it would also be insulting.

~~~
onli
And that's exactly not what was happening here. It was not a random person, it
was not about off-time, and it was not a generalization of specific behaviour,
but targeted critic of a specific occurrence happening to the author (or in
your example, the caller).

But by the way: If someone tells you you are lazy on the weekends and you
actually know you are lazy on the weekends, that is also not an insult. It is
just a true observation. If you feel ashamed then it is because you don't want
to be lazy on the weekend, for whatever reason.

It is possible you mean that as feeling insulted by being judged. But that is
another story and not the definition of insult. Insult would be if the caller
would call you a lazy piece of shit for being incredibly lazy on the weekend –
the explicit defamatory judgment. This honor insulting part is missing from
the original scenario.

~~~
argonaut
Is English your first language? I'm just wondering, because that may be why
you are missing the emotional reason why those words _would_ be an insult.

~~~
onli
Hey, I did not see your comment before, sorry. No, it is not :)

Though it might be more a culture than a language thing.

------
anjc
Musk's seemingly consistently-bad attitude will only be 'cool' for so long.
I've seen many complaints from disillusioned employees, several reports of
tantrums, and several reports from customers who've been fucked over.

If I was an investor, I'd very much like to know what his suppliers think of
him and how much seller's power they have in that supply chain. As the company
grows he may start to become a liability.

------
rubberstamp
I thought Mr.Musk had more integrity. Am not his fan anymore.

Mr.Alsop was just complaining about the way the launch event was organised.
Even if just one customer showed up for the event its just bad on Tesla's part
to keep them waiting that long without even owing an apology for that long.
Half hour delay is within normal limits for a big event. On top of that
cancelling a pre order was very very childish. Look who's treating their
customers badly.

Now people will think again before paying him for a trip to mars. Better not
annoy him or ...

~~~
brianwawok
What does integrity have to being a customer is already right yes man?
Sometimes the customer is wrong. And sometimes you need to fire a customer. He
did it in a fine way. Its not like Musk posted to twitter. He just quietly
cancelled the order. I would have done the same.

~~~
rubberstamp
This is someone who pre ordered paying $5000, i guess 2 years back, so that he
could get a car ASAP. Canceling a pre order because a customer complained he
was kept waiting at a poorly organized launch event? If he was so offended by
it he should have organized better launch event. Inviting someone to an event
and then giving a poor experience was bad. Blogging about poor experience
resulting in his pre order is only tainting reputation of Mr.Musk. No response
to the blog would've been a much better response.

~~~
brianwawok
The preorder was quite clear it had no guaranteed delievery time. It wasn't
like an iPhone that was 3 years late.

I agree to disagree on it being fine to fire a customer. If someone acts like
this before they have your product, why give them your product? Nothing good
could come of it. If a customer Is rude in their first email to you - don't
respond or don't sell them a product. The relationship isn't going to
magically get better down the road. Some people are just rude.

~~~
tamana
It sends a message that the company is more interested in culrivating fanbois
than winning customer satisfaction. That's cool as long as there are more
fanbois than cars, but at some point the company needs to sell to the larger
public, and I for one am spooked a bit. I'll fore Musk as a vendor before he
fires me as a customer. When Nissan screws up they apologize and fix my Leaf
free, they don't cut me off for hurting their brand image.

------
kozukumi
A rather over the top response IMHO. Not sure why Musk got so worked up about
it. Negative reviews happen, just deal with it.

------
logicallee
All I got from the reference blog post is "I'm rich and important. I'm not
paying for safety here, I'm paying to be rich and important![1] Also, you gave
us food, but not billionaire food. I want your attention and a reference to
me."

[1] the referenced blog post ACTUALLY says that! direct quote : "you shuffle
out on stage and start with a slide show — an amateur slide show at that — all
about how safe the Model X is.\p Yup, you lead with safety, like that’s why
we’re all spending $130,000 or more on this car"

------
kamaal
From the tweet..

>>Must be a slow news day if denying service to a super rude customer gets
this much attention

Just saying. Rude customers are nothing new. As somebody who worked as a tech
support guy for a call center, for a major US computer company, if anything a
rude customer was treated as a opportunity. I would receive any where between
10-12 extremely rude and inconsiderate calls. Many would be very intimidating.
And a lot of times, I have managed to get them to understand our side of the
story, followed up on their issues, taught them how to use the internet,
worked with their ISP's to fix their issues(sometimes people think, no
internet is the computer's problem, not ISP's) and some times even given
tuitions to customers on how to use their computers. None of that needed to be
done, but doing it built very strong relationships.

I can't even remember how many times our customer interaction coach would talk
to us telling delighting a rude/irate/inconsiderate customer many a times
mattered more than the very quality of the product. Because strong
relationships bring people back, they help in word-of-mouth of marketing and
helps build brand value.

 _You do not look at your customers as your enemy_. No matter who you are.
Especially CEO's need to realize this more.

Would you like to business with a company whose CEO/Employee(s) fights with
its customers? It doesn't take much common sense to understand this. If this
is the experience pre-sales, how do you expect to be treated after you've
purchased the product.

~~~
tamana
Aslop isn't a rude customer. He is a billionaire dbag playing social signaling
games with Musk. This isn't really a vendor-customer dispute.

------
pfortuny
If Musk gets irritated by that, then he does have a problem... I mean. A
problem.

------
edem
I'm not sure how should I interpret this. I guess that we are missing some
context to put this in perspective. Maybe something else happened which is not
in the tweet/article what made Musk cancel the order. If there is no missing
context then I'm somewhat disappointed by Musk's response. I've read the
actual criticism written by the other guy and I wouldn't be offended in Musk's
place. There was nothing inherently evil/discrediting/etc in that post.

------
pwdis_password
Rich guy complains about richer guy. Where's the news?

------
bossx
TSLA is down 14% today, coincidence?

~~~
martinko
Yes.

------
tn13
Elon Musk is number one reason why I have never purchase Tesla shares. I think
he is too childish and tries to sell snake oils to other people. This sort of
incident confirms it.

He probably spends millions of dollars to keep himself in news with "Musk does
this cool thing" type stories where in reality his Tesla or Space-X hasn't
made any serious progress disproportionate to the money people have put into
it.

This move is petty, brings bad PR to Musk and his company and gives more
exposure to this one customer who did not like the company. This shows that
Musk's PR team (and he) is incompetent to the extent that they have let
emotions and ego take precedence over smart business decision.

------
brudgers
On the scale of possible obnoxious behavior, at least Tesla didn't ship the
car and then shut it down over the air later. But along those same lines, this
is precedent setting. Complaints in an enthusiast forum or a poor review in
_Road and Driver Weekly_ could result in similar bans.

It also probably supports the case in favor of the state level auto dealership
laws Tesla finds so troublesome. That's one reason why negative comments about
BMW don't prevent someone from buying one.

------
tehwebguy
Sounds like a PayPal customer experience

------
smpetrey
Personally thought he had more integrity than that.

But then again, no one ever said that great men are good men.

------
tn13
Is this a warning to other honest reviewers and media houses that Elon Musk
will go after their throat and hurt them in all possible ways if they don't
strip and do a cheerleader dance for him?

------
kunai
Alsop is an asshat. But Musk decided to stoop to his level and prove him
right. This doesn't really bode well for his reputation, and might call into
question his bold assertions (especially for SpaceX) and how much water they
might hold if he can't even handle someone being petty towards his launch
event.

The man's obviously brilliant. But there are a lot of other brilliant men and
women who don't get the credo and also don't get their flaws overlooked
because of celebrity. Hopefully this is a sobering reminder that it's good not
to take anyone's personality at face value until you get to know them well.

------
tempodox
In case anybody needed a practical demonstration that power corrupts, here you
are.

~~~
setra
It a modern fallacy to say that power corrupts. Asymmetrical power, and
responsibility corrupts.

~~~
gjm11
The saying goes back to 1887, so (whether or not it's a fallacy) it's not all
that modern.

[EDITED to add:] It occurs to me that the original saying runs as follows:
"All power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" \-- which
is amusing, at least if you're as easily amused as I am, because your
objection is precisely that it's only _relative_ power that corrupts :-).

------
calibraxis
For all the boring blather about Musk I keep bumping into, this is the first
that says something good about the guy! Perfectly fine response to that
disgustingly entitled venture capitalist.

~~~
Shivetya
Sorry, not impressed with the idea the boss can just cancel your order because
you are critical of his work. However since he has loads of fanboy cash and
karma to burn he gets a pass.

Tesla was woefully late in delivery, they made no attempt to apologize as
stated, and honestly I don't think they really care. Not a shining example of
why the manufacturer direct model is better, if anything it shows people
exactly why the dealership model will survive.

~~~
bradleyankrom
Wouldn't the delivery issues have been exacerbated with a dealership middleman
involved?

~~~
dsp1234
Let's say I go to a dealership and preorder a new car, and they let me down
(for whatever reason), and I go online and write a bad review of my
experience. I'm entitled to do that, and as a private business the dealership
is entitled to cancel my preorder (though it's a childish move).

At that point, I can just go to another dealer and preorder there, and
hopefully get better service.

That's just not possible with Tesla. There is no dealership competition with
Tesla. If Elon Musk doesn't want to sell you a car, well then you are screwed.
Less competition, less customer service, punishment for bad reviews, etc.

Now, please understand that I'm a fan of the 'no dealership' model, which is
why I'm highly disappointed in his reaction to the bad review. I was hopeful
that Tesla would be a good citizen, and show everyone that the 'no dealership'
model is a fair one, with no downsides. Unfortunately, this reaction isn't it.

~~~
pil4rin
But tesla would still be the manufacturer? How would a dealership benefit in
any way? If there were others that didn't use the silly dealership model, you
could go to them and buy an electric car on the internet. But tesla is first
to market with an electric car at this scale, sure it can be seen as bad press
to decline a pre-order, but introducing additional hands in the mix in no way
would fix this situation. The problem lies with a lack of competition on this
one- If tesla had any real competition, and supply constrains, do you honestly
think a pre-order would be canceled?

~~~
dsp1234
_But tesla would still be the manufacturer? How would a dealership benefit in
any way?_

Tesla wouldn't be able to not sell you a car. The dealerships buy (not really)
the car, then they sell it to you. If a dealership is unhappy with your
review, and won't sell you something (again, something within their rights),
some other dealership would. If the manufacturer is pissed, and doesn't want
you to own one of their cars, then they have to convince the dealership not to
sell to you. And there is likely to be at least one dealership who would be
willing to (or more likely the manufacturer would never make that request
because of the power relationship between manufacturers and dealers).

For all the crap that dealerships do, they provide a layer of abstraction
between the buyer and the manufacturer. Normally that's a crap deal for the
buyer because it's inefficient, but it cuts the other way when the
manufacturer is going to be childish about a bad review.

I just have a really hard time imagining BMW coming around and saying 'we got
a bad review for a preview event, the CEO called the writer up, and we're
banning every dealer in the world from selling a vehicle to that person'.

It's honestly the kind of 'parade of horribles' that the dealer's themselves
are spouting in trying to prevent the 'no dealership' model from happening.
Except it happened, and that sucks for everyone.

------
aaron695
Musk is cool and doing some amazing shit for the world, so I'm happy for an
occasional pass.

> Dear @ElonMusk: Thank you for reaching out to me. I heard from our phone
> conversation that you feel that my post...

Did he personally ring and say fuck off to a potential customer/medium
blogger? Cause that's a CEO I'd support.

Willing to get dirty with customers... I'll give that a shitload more cred
than most CEO's who just hand it over to hitmen or cowardly marketing.

------
ddingus
This guy was looking for drama, and found it.

Musk, is running balls out to actualize his vision for the future. He has also
shown himself to be rational, able to handle failure with candor and trust,
and emotional about what he's doing.

That last bit is important. How else does one find the motivation to work that
hard?

Had that guy actually not tried to invoke drama, I suspect Musk would have
responded differently.

But he did.

Frankly, I believe Musk will find that sort of thing as offensive as it is
irrelevant. Rewarding the guy means validating drama, not enabling a
meaningful conversation, which Musk has demonstrated he will have eagerly.

If the potential for drama goes away, Musk will sell him a Tesla too.

Rude isn't the right word here. Musk understands rude, and sometimes is rude
as are the alphas on his teams. (Mostly all alphas anyway)

No, rude isn't the issue. It's drama and how inconsiderate that use of
precious time is. Musk is very keenly aware of time, and values it highly
enough to be very seriously annoyed at such an egregious attempt to waste it.

Secondly, all that waste does is raise the profile of someone not yet ready
for it.

Musk will take on a lot, and he's hard core too. Just don't attempt to burn
his time to ride on his coattails, and it's likely all good.

And I am not saying the intent here was nefarious or anything. What we are
seeing is a clash in values and priorities. Sometimes, we feel like we know
people, when we really don't.

That is what happened here.

