
Steve Wozniak on why he is leaving Facebook [video] - randomerr
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/tech/2018/04/09/apple-co-founder-steve-wozniak-says-youre-product-facebook-and-google/33694597/
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AndrewStephens
The problem is that users see Facebook in a different way than Facebook sees
itself. Users see a fun website where they can post pictures of their dog.
Facebook sees ways to get companies to pay for access to those users. That
disconnect is at the heart of all the issues around Facebook.

Looks like it is time for my 2-monthly repost of The Seven Realities of Social
Networking.

[https://sheep.horse/2013/10/the_seven_realities_of_social_ne...](https://sheep.horse/2013/10/the_seven_realities_of_social_networking.html)

~~~
bitofhope
Those are good points, but the post does come across as a little apologetic.
Serving the paying customers should not absolve you from responsibility for
the data collecting.

Reductio ad absurdum: a hitman's job is not to be concerned with the well-
being of their targets, but to serve the paying client. This doesn't make
killing people for money not evil, because the business model is inherently
unethical.

Facebook is not non-evil for collecting user data to target their customers'
ads. I think the entire foundation for their business is unethical.

I agree with the points of the article, save for #7, but I think it's
unfortunate Facebook doesn't have to take more responsibility for the data
collecting they have pioneered and continue to do.

~~~
youpassbutter
> I think the entire foundation for their business is unethical.

Then much of modern business is unethical. What facebook is doing isn't very
different from what newspapers do, what tv networks do and what much of tech
does.

What do you think ABC, NBC, CBS, etc does? What do you think nytimes,
washingtonpost, npr, etc does? What do you think google/youtube does? Even NPR
sells "ads" to their corporate sponsors for "donations".

> for the data collecting they have pioneered and continue to do.

You are giving facebook far too much credit. They didn't pioneer anything.
They are just the best at it. The business model that facebook excels in
certainly predates its existence ( google did it before facebook ) and on a
broader scale, predates facebook by decades.

The point should be that facebook should be forced to simply state what they
are doing and collecting to each new user and the user should decide whether
they want to use facebook's services or not.

~~~
krupan
When I read a newspaper or tune into a radio station they are in no way
harvesting my personal information.

~~~
youpassbutter
What if you visit their websites?

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oflannabhra
I think the big takeaway here is not that Woz is saying this, but that USA
Today is carrying a story about leaving Facebook. I'd almost guarantee that
USA Today's readership has never been presented with the concepts regarding
user data that we, here, are all very familiar with.

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netzone
I thought this was commonly known?

~~~
ecocentrik
He's attempting to speak to a wider audience, remind those that know but
haven't heard it in a while and attempting to trigger new realizations of the
absurdity of promises to protect privacy by organizations who's primary
revenue source is the exploitation of privacy.

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justadudeama
I realize this, but I still have a hard time not using Google services. I know
they are analyzing my data for ads, but it in incredibly convenient for me to
be on the exact same platform, from email with gmail and file storage with
google drive and browser with chrome and android on my phone, they just seem
to get me with one thing at a time in the name of standardization. What steps
can be made to prevent this?

~~~
jstanley
Replace gmail with an email server you control.

Replace file storage with a hard disk you control.

Replace chrome with chromium (or, better, firefox).

Replace android with an android fork that uses f-droid instead of the Play
store.

And you're done, no more Google usage.

I currently use my Google account only for signing in to YouTube, so that it
keeps track of my subscriptions and let me write comments. I use Firefox's
"multi-account containers" so that only the "YouTube" container knows my
Google account. Google Analytics for non-YouTube sites doesn't get to
trivially associate me with my Google account, because I look at all other
sites in different containers.

If someone created an alternative YouTube interface that allowed you to keep
track of subscriptions without telling Google who you are, I'd probably use
that rather than logging in to YouTube. Bonus points if it also gives you a
disposable Google account with which to write comments.

~~~
lauritzsh
Each YouTube channel also has an RSS feed you can subscribe to. That way you
don't tell Google who you are.

    
    
      1. Go to any YouTube channel you wish to subscribe to (such as youtube.com/user/YouTube).
      2. View source.
      3. Search for rssUrl or channel_id.
    

There should be a link to an ordinary RSS feed you can use with any reader.
Hope this is useful for you.

~~~
slouch
Thanks for this! I am pretty fed up with the subscriptions dashboard in
YouTube since they introduced posts.

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bitxbitxbitcoin
Is this the catalyst for change away from those companies, or just another
passing bout of enlightenment that will be forgotten by the masses by the
midterm elections?

~~~
briandear
My dad and probably your “normal” relatives probably don’t care what Woz
thinks. I stopped using Facebook, but nobody else I know actually cares. I’m
in anecdote-land, I know, but honestly, the general public is addicted to
Facebook. This isn’t a MySpace analog — MySpace was a playground of the fickle
young. Once Aunt Edna is on Facebook, it’s going to be hard to dethrone. Aunt
Edna was never on MySpace, so it was much easier for that platform to crash.

It’s also sad and hilarious to me that people have said they’ll stop using
Facebook, instead they’ll use WhatsApp or Instagram. Same horse, different
fleas.

~~~
briandear
As an addendum, I find it strange that people are “deactivating” their
accounts. What does that even mean? Facebook still has your data and you are
still being tracked. Unless millions actually delete their account (and
Facebook actually DOES delete it,) nothing will change.

Unless I can query the Facebook database, how do I know anything is actually
deleted? I find it hard to believe that anyone can actually get a confirmed
deletion from any social service. We are trusting that delete actually means
deleted.

~~~
908087
Under GDPR, Facebook will be facing some serious trouble if they try to
continue the not-really-deletion deletion thing, so at least there's some hope
for those who reside in Europe on this front.

That said, even for those who are in countries like the US, deactivation and
ceasing "engagement" with Facebook is still at least one step better than
continuing to actively feed them data.

~~~
mnsc
This is the reason I haven't deleted my FB yet, I'm going to send so many
letters this June! And then I'm going to be joyously forgotten for real! And
then I'm going to send more letters to see how forgotten I truly am!

GDPR = Get Damn Priers Rekt

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Pigo
I wonder if they'll be a sequel to The Social Network now.

~~~
Zhyl
'The Circle' doesn't do a bad job of filling that niche.

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dumbfounder
So Apple products are the high road here? Products that lock me in and force
me to shell out money every few years to upgrade, force my friends/family to
use the same platform (iphoto), creates gardens with massive walls (doesn't
let Siri talk to apps, has a totalitarian regime of an app store), and more,
or use the completely free Facebook where "I am the product"? Most people
don't care and even I am not convinced being the product is necessarily a bad
thing.

~~~
Waterluvian
Every few years? Don't Apple products have unusually long lifespans and
support durations?

~~~
dumbfounder
How easy is it to change a battery in your phone? Upgrade the memory? What
about them slowing down the phone when the battery degrades, and only just
recently to be called out for that?

~~~
slouch
Oh c'mon. The alternative to them slowing it down is an unexpected reboot. Is
that what you want? Crashes?

~~~
dumbfounder
I want them to be transparent about such issues and then let me buy a new
battery at the apple store when it gets to that point. They don't want to make
this happen, they want me to buy a new phone.

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jonbarker
The most troubling defense from FB I've heard is that product companies that
charge for products and don't have ad supported models are inducing "Stockholm
Syndrome" in those who defend that approach vs the free ad supported model. To
me it seems that that analogy is stronger for those who don't pay for free
products, as they are arguably more locked in than those who can 'vote with
their wallets' and stop buying.

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josefresco
* Proceeds to check in via Foursquare

~~~
vthallam
Swarm _

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itakedrugs
he undeleted it yesterday, about 18 hours ago, for a while

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GreeniFi
Welcome to Restaurant Facebook. If you’re not at the table, you’re on the
menu.

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throwmenow_0140
tl;dr - I explain in detail why you should use Facebook for your advantage
instead of complaining about their lack of decency.

Anybody who denies Facebook doesn't recognize its true value for ones personal
brand. It's not about your data - you shouldn't do anything remotely personal
on this platform, ever. It's all about personal marketing. And for this
purpose, it is the perfect tool. You can decide how people perceive you and
gain social power and influence other people. If you refuse to take this
chance because they sell your data, you're wasting a big opportunity. It's
known for years that they don't care about privacy, and neither should you
when you use those platforms. Use encrypted and decentralized communication
channels if you want to communicate without being spied on.

But Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat can be used to build powerful
social influence. And this can be used to gain further power - I'm not a fan
of Nietzsches "Will to power" bullshit, but I'm interested in power regardless
to build my personal empire (maybe based on deep insecurity and narcissim,
whatever rests under the consciousness).

For all those Facebook haters: Your distaste for this platform stems from the
fact that they don't value privacy and that people in general don't really
care. But don't miss this opportunity just for the matter of doing "the right
thing". If you're an existential nihilist like me, you recognize that all
those opinions don't really matter (including yours) and are often used to
find value in oneself like many vegetarians, no-facebookers, minimalists, etc.
use it (I'm a vegetarian - it can be used to feel good about oneself if you
prefer to give your narcisstic side those impulses. I try to avoid doing it
for those reasons to overcome myself). Sigmund Freud called this the
"Narcissim of small differences", don't get fooled by your unconscious side -
even if you think that it's rational to avoid Facebook. Think in terms of
power and how you gonna get it. I know, this certainly sounds like a
sociopath, but you can do good things with this power. "Humans of New York" is
a Facebook page that shows us how we can use this power for good.

Don't hate the game. It's man-made and without any purpose like our whole
existence. Learn to play it if you want to master life in this society.
Otherwise you just support your ego - exactly like the people who are on
Facebook. You're not smarter than them. Nobody here is including me.

I just hope that people learn to value the opportunity and do a rational risk-
assessment instead of using emotions of rejection because a company is selling
user information. I don't support that Facebook does that, but we can still
use their platform to our advantage while hiding our true personality (and
therefore enforce our privacy).

edit: Maybe most people who are on Facebook see it like this - although I have
the notion that most people don't reflect on this level about their Facebook
and social media usage.

~~~
icebraining
The point of not avoiding FB for petty vanity - essentially, don't cut off the
nose to spite the face(book) - is valid. But the analysis falls short, because
by adding content to FB, you're still strengthening its network effect. How
many people will keep using FB (at least partially) to follow your profile?
Arguably, you're complicit in that.

~~~
croon
To add to that: What's the culmination of all this?

Everyone ends up with a non-personal brand avatar that interacts with other
brand avatars while life outside is entirely separate?

I understand that people "pose" online, as well as sartorially and socially
offline, but this would be an entirely different ball game. What's even the
point of participating after you've removed the last remaining percentage of
real interaction from social media?

~~~
icebraining
_What 's the culmination of all this?_

Oh, that we've know for fifty years. It's the acceleration of the Spectacle:

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life
presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles. Everything that was
directly lived has moved away into a representation."

~~~
croon
That's both well put and awfully prescient.

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commenter1
Good for him, but why should I care what he does?

~~~
Shikadi
Ask yourself that question. If you find the answer is you shouldn't care, then
don't click the link.

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StefanFrost
How has this not been obvious from the start?

I can't be the only one that knew this from the start. Nothing is free.

