
Razer targets perfect Linux support - danjoc
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1333298720061240&substory_index=0&id=113306788727112
======
mathnode
I am one of many disgruntled Razer Blade Stealth and razer core owners,
currently awaiting a refund. Some customers are on as many as their 4th or 5th
replacement unit. They have no English support in the UK, just a couple of
german phone numbers which nobody seems to answer. The forum is terrible and
they can't translate emails correctly. It's insulting.

The typical issues are usually related to firmware, which myself and other
users would be willing to wait for to be fixed, but Razer's default, almost
auto-response, solution is to just send you another unit, with the same
issues.

In general though, the razer blade stealth is not even in the same league as
an x1, mbp, or xps, and it's not supposed to be. It's just priced the same.

Razer. Apple prices, gateway support.

~~~
maxsilver
I also got bit by this. Razer's simpler wired keyboards and mice might be OK,
but their systems are fundamentally broken.

The Razer Blade Stealth (7500u) has broken Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C support. Most
popular devices simply won't work at all, even though they work with other
Kaby Lake computers, and even though they work with Razer's own previous
Stealth laptop (6500u model).

The Razer Core has broken display software (double vsync lag) which makes it
not work properly if you use an external GPU and monitor (which is ostensibly
the purpose of the device)

Additionally, the Razer Core's USB ports just flat out don't work. There's a
power short of some sort in the internal USB hub, so that if you plug in a
device that draws any more than the lowest amount of power, it cycles through
a connecting/disconnecting state, looping forever.

All of these are fundamental flaws with the product itself, so you can (and
will be asked to) RMA units over and over for eternity, but you'll never get
the problem fixed.

\---

Razer Support has known about all of these issues for months now. There is
zero communication coming from Razer -- they won't discuss their design flaws,
they won't support their devices, they won't even acknowledge these issues as
happening.

When asked directly, the CEO claimed he "wasn't looking at product reliability
because we're actually one of the top few in terms of product quality". -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/5v8zkh/improving_raz...](https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/5v8zkh/improving_razer_customer_service/de088x3/)
Since Razer's leadership doesn't care about quality at all, I can't imagine
the company will ever care either.

At this point, I'm not spending another dime with Razer ever again, and
certainly couldn't recommend any one else do so.

~~~
poink
Even Razer's mice are pretty shit quality. I've had them going back to the
original Boomslang, and I don't think I've ever had one last more than two
years. I just like their ergonomics and features -- and the fact that Razer is
good about replacing them when they break quickly, which they often do --
enough to put up with it.

I'm probably harder on input devices than most people, but I have working
Logitech and Microsoft mice that are older than Razer itself.

~~~
stupidcar
I use a Razer mouse at work, and it's still going strong after five years of
heavy usage. So, like anything, YMMV.

To be honest, even if they only ever lasted a couple of years, I'd still buy
Razer mice. All non-gaming mice nowadays seem to be awful, cheap crap, and
most gaming mice are over-decorated contraptions. Razer mice seem to be the
only one they combine good, simple ergonomics with high precision and a
quality feel.

~~~
patates
Try Roccat. They're amazing.

------
kobeya
Any Razer engineers here? I'm a proud owner that would like to work with you
directly to fix some of the remaining driver support issues.

Also, has anyone gotten the Razer Blade to work with the Razer Core
thunderbolt 3 expansion chassis? On default Ubuntu 16.04 it picks up the
thunderbolt hub, but nothing underneath. This would be an amazing laptop for
machine learning if I could supercharge it with a Titan-X.

Also, consider a 32GB build for us developers...

~~~
feld
I'm not sure that is something that could be "fixed" in 16.04 unless you can
convince the Ubuntu kernel maintainers to backport patches for PCI-E hotplug /
thunderbolt support.

~~~
pedrocr
LTS releases (like 16.04) get hardware enablement stacks where X/kernel/etc
gets upgraded to the versions from the non-LTS releases. So if you make it
work with ubuntu 17.04 for example it will trickle down to the LTS users.
Makes LTS a much more attractive solution on the desktop. I've stopped
bothering with the intermediate ones.

------
rohall
This is great! I picked up a Razer 2016/1060 a couple months ago and have been
running Ubuntu on it since then.

There's been a few issues, but overall it's been a great machine to transition
to after a decade of Mac usage. If you're interested, it will require a bit of
configuration (and even then its not 100% perfect just yet). See here for a
list of issues/solutions:
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jI2jlVi1V0H8SeNm5kspJ1qX...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jI2jlVi1V0H8SeNm5kspJ1qXVtibLOnxNOkDr8ExoSI/edit#heading=h.nkiewtcyw910))

Feel free to ask any questions if you're curious about picking one up!

~~~
danjoc
Ohhh, nice doc :D Looks like you found a few solutions that I haven't. Thanks
for sharing!

~~~
rohall
No problem! Just to be clear, I can't take credit for the content of the doc
or starting it, but I've found it very useful.

If you have a solution / issue that isn't listen - please add it as a comment
on the doc :).

------
iotscale
Well, I think I'll refrain from buying razer because of this:
[https://mobile.twitter.com/internetofshit/status/83665111681...](https://mobile.twitter.com/internetofshit/status/836651116817498118)

~~~
breul99
This is for their razor blade laptop, are you really going to avoid their
entire line up because of that?

~~~
dubcanada
This isn't even the laptop, it's for Razer Synapses which is their cloud
mouse/keyboard settings program. This is literally nothing to do with their
laptop line up.

~~~
jrockway
This seems to be how the world of Windows works. Every peripheral I have seems
to need an account to save your settings in the cloud, a feature I pretty much
never care about. Every vendor wants you to know that yes, you're using their
thing, and that they employ an entire team of engineers and designers that
have never seen a computer before. I wish someone would put a stop to it.

~~~
Slackwise
This is why I had reservations about many high end mechanical keyboards that
had all their macro/lighting/etc support done via software. Found out that
Ducky makes keyboards that are 100% hardware configured, no OS even needed,
just power. (Also IKBC keyboards do configuration via firmware too, I
believe.)

As for my mouse, I had to use some Corsair junk to configure the button
mappings, sensitivity, and turn down their ridiculous LED, but then it saved
the settings to the mouse firmware so I can uninstall it and use it just fine
on Linux. No more touching it again. Still not happy about it. Would rather it
had been some tiny DIP switches underneath.

~~~
jrockway
Yeah, I got on board the mechanical keyboard train before it was cool, and as
a result my keyboard has no software that can configure it. There's a DIP
switch to make caps lock into control. Perfect.

I have a Corsair mouse, and their software is spectacularly awful. (Their
other software is also terrible; like configuring fan speed profiles for the
water cooler.) No account required, but the button configuration is
horrendously complex and in the end completely useless. I never figured out
how to make a mouse button show up to Windows as an extra mouse button.
Switched to a DeathAdder, and while their software is also terrible, at least
the extra mouse buttons show up to the OS as mouse buttons. (Razer's software
is terrible in a different way; the UI is overdesigned and I don't want to
type in a username and secure password to change my fucking mouse settings...
but once you're in there, the software does actually work well, letting you
configure what you want in a relatively straightforward manner.)

All in all, this stuff is all super gimmicky. I want the marketing people to
know I bought their product _in spite_ of the software they spent hundreds of
thousands of dollars developing. I would be happier without it. The company
would be more profitable without it. The mouse is for pointing at enemies and
clicking when their head is under the crosshairs. I don't need a "brand
experience". I don't need fancy colors or "game optimization". Just translate
my hand motion to input events. I'll do the rest. Thanks.

------
pbz
If they're reading this, here's my wishlist:

1) 15.6 inch laptop (14 is too small, especially with those bezels).

2) As thin of a bezel as possible (see XPS)

3) Camera on top! I don't want to show my fingers in conference calls. This
may force the bezels to be larger on top, that's fine. (Pop-out camera?)

4) Offer the highest quality display from a color reproduction point of view,
not the refresh rate. This is NOT a gaming laptop, or at least not a pro one.

5) The resolution should allow me to use the OS without scaling. If you can
squeeze more than 1080p (1440?) the better. We need vertical space for coding!
Some folks like 4K, so that should be an option.

6) Connectivity is important; lots of ports. Also, Intel WiFi cards, not
Killer.

7) The sound should at least be decent. I don't understand how a phone can
have better (ok, lounder) sound than a laptop.

8) Give us an option to optimize for power vs battery life. I want the fastest
CPU (within reason) and a good GPU (1060 or 1050, but ideally 1060) at the
expense of battery life, but others would like more battery.

9) I'm picky about the SSD that goes into the laptop. Either allow me to
replace it or allow me to pick what I want (960 Pro).

10) Good trackpad, ideally with buttons.

11) Good keyboard, super important...

12) Under 6lbs

13) Cooling has to be top notch and the air intake cannot be on the bottom. I
actually use the laptop on my lap.

14) Height should be around 1 inch. Making it super thin like MBPs is not
worth the tradeoffs.

15) That logo needs to go or at a minimum don't make it glow...

~~~
kobeya
It IS a gaming laptop...

And basically all your points sum up to it being a radically different laptop
than what it is. Why not buy something else than ask changes of what Razer
fans love?

~~~
pbz
Currently, yes, but I was giving suggestions in case they want to branch out.
They asked a few times on Twitter what a developer would like in a laptop. The
wish list reflects that. Unfortunately, I couldn't find something that would
check off most of the items above.

~~~
kobeya
If that's what you want... then buy an Apple MBP, or a Dell. For a Developer
that is already eying a Razer, a more reasonable response is probably "32GB,
trackpoint, ability to charge via dock, Linux driver support" not "completely
redo your design and form factor."

~~~
ramy_d
As a Game Dev and Networking Dev, i'm def. keeping an eye on the razor blade
linux support. It is most assuredly a gaming laptop and I like that.

------
acabal
I've been using a Razer Blade 2015 as an Ubuntu-only computer for several
years now, and I've recommended it on HN in the past. It's been a great
machine, and Linux works surprisingly well. (Of course that means that there
are some minor problems, but "surprisingly well" is high praise in the world
of Linux on laptops.)

Lots of people here complaining about build quality issues, but mine has been
completely solid. The only issues I've experienced are some of the keyboard
keys are losing their matte black printing, which is surprising but not fatal.

Additionally, at first I had a hard time getting a Blade that did not have a
screen with a pink-to-white tint to it. However this appears to be an issue
with all IPS panels--my Nexus 6 has the same issue and you can find people on
Apple forums complaining about similar problems on Macbooks. Razer support was
very helpful, and they hand-checked a unit to send me as a replacement, which
is the one I'm using to this day.

In short, I'd continue recommending Blades for development work as Linux
machines, and even moreso if they can iron out the usual Linux driver issues
that plague all laptops.

Edit: I should also add that my limited experience with Razer support has been
good, in that I got personal replies from people who didn't seem to be reading
from a script, and who were happy to accommodate my returns and pickiness
about screen quality.

~~~
philliphaydon
What is battery life like for you? I tried Ubuntu on an Asus laptop 4 years
ago. Windows would get ~7 hours, while Ubuntu barely managed to get 3 hours.

I love using it on desktop, but it sucks (sucked) on laptop when I used it.

~~~
Hydraulix989
Try using tlp and powertop to diagnose the issue (your CPU might not be
entering low power C states -- a common problem with older kernels that don't
support the latest Intel CPU architectures), so also upgrade your kernel.

Linux has consistently gotten 1.5x as much runtime on battery for me as
Windows.

------
hinfaits
For readers confused as I was, the Facebook post only says they're "looking
at" better Linux support. The author buries in a comment a target for flawless
Linux support[1].

But I'd expect if flawless Linux support was actually their goal they'd
announce it more prominently, which they did not.

[1][https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/photos/a.11684295504016...](https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/photos/a.116842955040162.11402.113306788727112/1333298720061240/?type=3&comment_id=1333320063392439&reply_comment_id=1333321023392343&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D)

~~~
danjoc
I wasn't sure about their commitment either, but on the linked page, Min-Liang
Tan (Razer CEO) comments:

"Well - our objective is to get the Blades to be running Linux flawlessly."

That seems like Razer is setting a clear target for Linux support.

~~~
enknamel
Under promise but over deliver!

------
f8kr
Razer's Synapse, or cloud based drivers seem like a huge step backwards.
Needing to make an account so I can change the sensitivity of my mouse is
crazy.

I've heard the argument

* they needed more space on the device so couldn't include the drivers and configuration

* cloud drivers allow portability of configuration

Both of those fall on their face in reality. Lan gaming is mostly dead since
most multiplayer games are online and memory space is cheap.

~~~
pfooti
you can run synapse in offline mode.

~~~
hodgekins
Still worth avoiding. It's a bad precedent to have hardware on the "cloud" for
no reason. I still need to interface with their online service to use my
offline device. Having a keyboard capable of calling home is not something I
want any part of.

------
justicezyx
I think the developer community right now is siganificant enough to offer a
meaningful market for smaller shop like Razer. If they manage to deliver a
relatively well-built (not to the level of apple, something close to xps or
thinkpad), with solid linux integration, slightly expensive (like 10% over the
mass market models with equivalent hardware spec), I will buy for sure.

~~~
MegaButts
I don't own a Razer, although I've been thinking about buying one. My
understanding is they're top notch, maybe even on par with Apple, _if_ you get
one without issues. They have above-average defect rates and way-below-average
customer support. If you check out forums or /r/razer you'll find some people
gushing over their laptops, and many complaining about support.

~~~
danjoc
I'm a gusher myself, and I'm super picky. I looked for backlight bleed, dead
pixels, scratches, unlevel feet.

If you're worried about buying a lemon, they sell them at the Microsoft store.
In stock. You can buy and return all in the same place.

------
geoka9
Please also add trackpoint[0] so that we thinkpad (linux) users can be more
comfortable considering switching to your platform.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick)

~~~
jolux
I know some people love them but compared to the massive glass trackpad with
multitouch that I have on my MacBook I don't understand the appeal. Is it a
portability thing?

~~~
mikejmoffitt
I won't vouch for the productivity savings from moving your hands less, since
I think that's an absurd micro-optimization. Rather, I prefer it because I
find it to be quick and accurate. After a week or so of getting used to it,
when I first got a ThinkPad that only had it, it became the most natural and
comfortable way of navigating. Not having to repeatedly paw at the bottom of
the laptop and confort my hand to make a click (or deal with a single-finger
click0 has been nice.

Mind you, I'm only speaking for the real ThinkPad trackpoints. The one in a
Dell laptop I had for work was nowhere near as comfortable, and felt slippery
and awkward.

~~~
stirner
Exactly, it is about not having to "paw". I own a 2016 MBP and even with the
massive trackpad I end up having to swipe and reposition at least a couple
times for big movements, unless I set the sensitivity to a level that makes
precision movements impossible.

------
enknamel
I really like someone stepping up and making a high quality linux laptop.
After the thread yesterday about System76 (who I thought was doing that) this
makes me really happy. It's also somewhat a threat to Apple. If you aren't
doing any iOS development you will now get a really nice alternative to a
Macbook Pro.

~~~
greenhatman
Aren't Dell doing this well already with their XPS series?

~~~
nas
Really not impressed with my XPS 13. The screen automatically changes
brightness depending what is shown on it (dynamic brightness). The touchpad
works really poorly, detects palm touches as clicks all the time. Nearly
impossible for me to type without clicks. Messing with settings reduced palm
clicks but made the pad unresponsive to clicks from my finger.

Had lockups until I upgraded kernel and flashed now BIOS. Audio had really
loud hissing until I opened alsamixer and set controls to exactly the right
values (got of a wiki page). To be fair, the audio is noisy on Windows 10 too.

My old Lenovo X200 works nearly flawless on Linux. Again, pretty disappointed
with Dell.

------
ryanisnan
To chime in, I recently (this week) purchased a new Razer Blade laptop
(1920x1080) with the intention of dual-booting windows and linux, as a
permanent replacement for my MBP.

I have to say, the build quality _seems_ top shelf. The laptop itself is a
sturdy feeling machine. It booted up out of the box just fine, and within a
bit I was supporting 2 player rocket league on an external 34" monitor with no
problem.

After some fussing about, I finally got Antergos up and running on a smaller
partition, and now it's working flawlessly.

I am not a linux guru, so I had to bash my head a little bit, but here I am...

I cannot speak anything about the quality of the customer service, or how long
this laptop will perform admirably (obviously), but so far I am extremely
happy.

edit: I should say that I received the laptop today (at time of writing) and
getting linux up and running only took a few hours of my uneducated self
faffing about.

------
cdubzzz
For many of Razer's peripherals, there are some very well supported reverse
engineered drivers: [https://github.com/terrycain/razer-
drivers](https://github.com/terrycain/razer-drivers)

------
m12k
Slightly off topic: I was about to ask, in this day and age of responsive web
design, why do Facebook, Wikipedia and others still have m. -prefix websites?
On further reflection I can only assume it's in order to provide a bandwidth
constrained alternative, rather than just a visual change. Still, these look
like crap on a desktop, and it's a frustrating leak of implementation details
when someone posts a link to Wikipedia from their phone, and suddenly I'm
looking at a weird design on desktop. They're so good at detecting when people
are on a small screen and redirecting to .m - couldn't they please do the
reverse too and redirect from .m to the normal version for desktop clients?

And if someone needs a bandwidth constrained version on desktop (developing
countries and people trying to avoid data roaming fees come to mind), then
maybe we could come up with a better way for clients to tell this when
requesting pages, rather than try to infer it from screen size?

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
A counterpoint: I frequently use the mobile version of sites on desktop
because they're lighter, and I like just being able to use m. _

------
tyleo
I have a 14" Razer laptop from 2016. I am currently running Windows on it, and
FWIW I have never been more pleased with a laptop.

I wonder if they will add compatibility for the Razer Core on the Linux side
of things.

~~~
danjoc
Currently, requires modding the BIOS.

[https://insider.razerzone.com/index.php?threads/razer-
core-o...](https://insider.razerzone.com/index.php?threads/razer-core-on-
linux-with-razer-blade-stealth-requires-bios-mod.20677/)

Hopefully, that changes in the future.

------
scurvy
I'll just put it this way: BIOS updates require purchasing a Razer Core or
RMA'ing your entire laptop. Not a lie. Not an exaggeration. It's the truth for
Blade and Blade Stealth owners.

The experience is borderline terribad. I got things (mostly) working with
Linux Mint, but:

1) Runtime is maybe 2 hours. 2) It won't sleep when you close the lid (I have
sleep hotkeyed instead) 3) The USB support is loltastic 4) External HDMI
connector worked for a week then quit 5) Takes 3 hours to fully charge the
battery

I could go on but it's Friday. I had really high hopes for this laptop and was
ultimately let down by Razer. They should stick to making their peripherals
work with Linux, then they can put on their bigboy pants and try to make an
entire system.

------
Animats
They control the hardware. Linux is open source. This is their problem. Why do
they need "feedback, suggestions and ideas on how we can make it the best
notebook in the world that supports Linux."

------
kyledrake
I discussed this with the CEO a while ago on Twitter
[https://twitter.com/minliangtan/status/447658322544439296](https://twitter.com/minliangtan/status/447658322544439296)

I think their best bet would be to have someone at the company work
specifically on Linux issues. Dell did this and made a handsome return on
their investment.

I currently use a Dell Developer XPS, but would definitely consider the Blade
as a candidate for my next laptop if they were good about Linux compatibility
in their next release.

~~~
ndesaulniers
I'd love to work there on improving Linux support.

------
ndesaulniers
Here's my damage report for running Linux of a late 2016 Razer Blade Stealth
laptop:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/5orvy5/late_2016_rbs...](https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/5orvy5/late_2016_rbs_qhd_linux_damage_report/)

------
abvdasker
Calling it now: Razer is going to eat Apple's share of the *nix-based
developer market over the next few years.

------
notheguyouthink
This is a quick way for me to buy them instead of a new MacBook Pro. Awesome
to see someone step up to the plate!

------
ezoe
I brought a used razer blade stealth laptop from my colleague.

He said it wasn't that bad, but it overheats easily and CPU is almost always
forced down clocked because of it. So it didn't achieve the performance he
expected from the spec.

Razer Blade Stealth is almost perfect in spec. Built-in 4K display with NO
NVIDIA GPU. That's great for the linux. Unfortunately, it's too thin. Not only
it's bad for overheating, it doesn't have many useful ports. Especially the
Ethernet.

I can't understand why the computer, advertised as the gaming laptop, doesn't
have Ethernet.

I don't use it long enough to evaluate it, but so far, it's good for a
portable toy computer.

------
ythn
Anyone else own a Razer mechanical keyboard that doesn't work in GRUB/BIOS
menus?

I have a Black Widow Stealth and it works great... except not in BIOS menus or
GRUB menus. In those cases I have to plug in my old keyboard to get a
response.

~~~
AstralStorm
You may need to enable legacy USB support in firmware and hope it works with
your machine or mainboard.

Other than that, some of the advanced devices initialize too slow and firmware
is not waiting on them long enough.

------
dijit
I recently purchased a Dell Precision 5520 because its linux support is
terrific (or, it was on the 5510). If they pull this off then the next laptop
I buy will almost certainly be a razer. No question.

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
Can you clarify?

Given your praise of the Precision 5520, why would you get something else next
time?

~~~
partisan
I was in the market for a new laptop and strongly considered the 5510/5520s.
They look amazing even when seen from the perspective of coming from a MBP.
That said, the video cards on that series are optimized for CAD and not for
gaming. If you are looking at a Razer at all, then you likely have some need
for the gaming support, but if you bought the Dell, you are probably airing on
the side of sensibility. If Razer were to make reliable products then the
Razer Blade would be the perfect thing.

I recently bought a new laptop after considering the two above. My final
choice was one I wouldn't typically wouldn't have made: MSI Ghost GS63VR. I
needed to have the computing and graphics power at a low enough price point
that I could afford to bounce back if the laptop goes bad (the first one I
bought last week failed within 2 days).

------
clord
At first I thought the coloured keyboard on most of their systems was useless,
but I wonder if I could rig it up to switch colour based on vim mode. That
might be fun. Is it controllable from software?

~~~
WaxProlix
There's an SDK for interacting with all Razer Chroma enabled devices, so it's
doable.

[http://developer.razerzone.com/works-with-
chroma/download/](http://developer.razerzone.com/works-with-chroma/download/)

------
ktta
Non-mobile link:

[https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/photos/a.11684295504016...](https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/photos/a.116842955040162.11402.113306788727112/1333298720061240/?type=3&theater)

dang, can we get the link changed to this since most phones will redirect to
the mobile version, but for some reason, people haven't figured a way to
redirect to desktop versions from mobile?

~~~
danjoc
As a counter point, the mobile version works without javascript. That's
important to some of us :)

~~~
ktta
That's interesting. Thanks for letting me know!

------
gwicks56
If you are not doing Rails work, do people find Linux that much more
productive these days than windows?

I generally buy Thinkpads because of the keyboard and cost (upgrade myself),
and used to use Ubuntu probably 85% of the time. Overtime I have found myself
doing more and more in Windows, because of both drivers and battery life.

For sys admin in makes sense, but for general dev work, I tend to find
everything works just fine on windows, plus it makes day to day usage easier.

------
projektir
I got a 2016 Blade recently and installed Arch Linux on it. The only thing I
found problematic so far was Nvidia Optimus, which seems a general issue.

~~~
lj3
A few days late here, but Nvidia Optimus is a general issue on _all_
platforms, including windows. I raved for years about linux graphics support
being crap, to the general amazement of the rest of the linux community. When
I switched to windows, I found I had the same problems I did on linux. Oops.

------
kseifried
Not a gamer, but wanted a better mouse so I bought some razor mice products
over the years, required internet to setup/huge bloated driver/software
package, and then hardware wise the build quality wasn't there. Gave up on
them and went to the Apple mouse, much happier (didn't realize at the time but
gestures are much nicer than buttons if you're not a gamer).

------
chris_wot
This got the attention of Alberto Ruiz at RedHat...

~~~
danjoc
Muhahaha, my plan is working! ;)

------
minimaxir
Interesting that Razer is targeting Linux before macOS. I bought a Logitech
mechanical keyboard (G810) and mouse (G502) primarily because they are the
only manufacturer that offers first-class drivers for their products on macOS.

EDIT: misread HN headline; article mostly about Linux support on their laptops
so comment is somewhat moot.

~~~
eikenberry
I have never seen a mechanical keyboard that required drivers. What abou that
Logitech keyboard requires a driver?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Keyboard drivers provide additional support for controlling LED backlight
color (many of them are RGB per key) and for managing 'macro' keys which send
bulk key sequences.

Both features are popular in the gaming community. But they are also useful in
other ways, I've got a mod which blinks the F11 key when I've got a
meeting/appointment coming up (for example)

~~~
Slackwise
This is why I bought a Ducky keyboard, which does all this via an ARM
controller/firmware right on the board. Zero software for my macro, lighting,
settings, etc.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Interesting keyboard, challenging manual :-). Having ARM Cortex-M chips as
controllers really opened up the abilities of keyboards.

I've been collecting a list of features that I'd like if I had a completely
hackable keyboard (or built one).

~~~
Slackwise
Yea, the only thing I'd like more is a firmware that would let me just
straight up tweak it with C or Rust code, or Lua if performant enough.

I'm wondering if any of the DIY keyboard controllers are hackable. That'd be a
nice future project.

------
DonnyV
These laptops are WAAAAAAAY over priced for what you get. I got a MSI G Series
GS70 STEALTH-037 17.3-Inch Laptop and love it!!! Solid as a rock, always stays
up to date firmware and plays Battlefield 1 smooth as butter. Plus 2 hard
drives and you can connect 3 monitors.

I can't recommend them enough.

~~~
djsumdog
I used an MSI laptop for over a year as a Linux/primary dev laptop:

[http://penguindreams.org/blog/msi-ws60-running-
linux/](http://penguindreams.org/blog/msi-ws60-running-linux/)

I now have a desktop and put Windows back on the lappy to play games, but it
was an excellent Linux dev device, although I did have to get Wi-Fi working
myself as I was an early adopter.

I never did get Bluetooth working, but after putting Windows back on,
Bluetooth still didn't work and I realized it was a faulty adapter. :-/ One
day I'll open it and replace it, but for now I just use a USB adapter.

If you use a laptop for Linux dev, you'll most likely struggle with some
hardware that's not supported yet (although I've been very lucky with ever
Dell being supported by the mainline kernel and latest linux-firmware).

Getting hardware working is the _fun_ part. :)

------
the_common_man
Razer owner for many years now. Love it, best gaming device I have laid my
hands on. Comparisons with Apple don't make sense. They are targetting
different audiences.

------
mmjaa
I mean, this is one of those things where either you're a real company, or
you're not. Half a company is, like, supply chain management. The other half
is, pushing the perspective beyond the horizon. Razer solve all the supply
problems, obviously, or else there wouldn't be a working catalog, but as far
as pushing things beyond the event horizon, signs are that there is much more
to come.

Look at it this way... what Apple did with NextStep in 1999, Razer, et al.,
could be doing right now, finally, and catching up. With Linux.

Only 20 years behind the ball, but .. then again .. these are not yet $Billion
companies. Yet.

------
rpdillon
This is confusing. It looks like they opened up a forum for users to discuss
Linux support on their machines. Have they done anything at all beyond that?

~~~
danjoc
The CEO said, hey, I want my laptops to run Linux flawlessly. Let's work on
making that happen together. Here's a forum. Let's get some feedback on what
we can do to better support Linux in future hardware.

This is a company that makes prototype laptops with three displays :D The dude
will sink time and money into this if that's what he wants.

------
crudbug
Give me Triple Display Notebook - Project Valerie [0], for under 2K, I will
throw my Macbook Pro. This will be my dream Development machine.

Its interesting we have Game/Business centric notebooks. No Development
centric notebooks.

[0] [https://www.razerzone.com/project-
valerie](https://www.razerzone.com/project-valerie)

------
kentosi
If they just made the bezel more like XPS I'd be handing over my credit card
right now.

------
hicolour
Fix this enormous basel and ad support for 32GB memory and there will be no
competition ...

~~~
AstralStorm
It is either bezel or thickness if you want proper cooling in a small laptop -
only 17" ones are likely to get away without either.

Or you can stick with low power cool hardware but that defeats the point of
the gaming laptop.

------
Asooka
But why? Linux desktop and Linux gaming are deader than democracy is in
America.

~~~
orthecreedence
Ok, I'll bite. I'm on Windows 7 right now, and in the market for a new machine
(on a lenovo t410). When I get a new machine, I can go with windows 7, but
it's much easier for me to just go to win 10. But win 10 scares me. An OS that
shoves advertisements and pictures of Trump into my start menu, as well as
includes a keylogger, advertisements in my lock screen, etc screams to me of
"corporate spyware!!" and every part of me that wants to keep some shred of
privacy just can't accept the tradeoffs.

So, stay on an OS that's two versions out of date, or upgrade to a Windows
Spyware Platinum. I hate Macs/OSx so that's out.

OR install linux, run windows apps in a VM, and hope more games come out for
linux. Hell, I can even dual-boot win 10 and play games there. Seems like a
decent option.

------
bluehazed
32GB RAM and a TrackPoint/pointing stick, please.

------
auvi
I would also vouch for FreeBSD on Razer laptops.

~~~
baldfat
Why would BSD Desktop need a powerful laptop? What applications are you
running on a desktop BSD?

~~~
baldfat
It's okay to vote me down but I really am wondering what Desktop BSD are
doing? I have been an old Amiga guy that ended up finding a home with Linux. I
tried BSD several times and have BSD running a server at my home. My
experience with Desktop BSD just didn't see where you would use the available
application that would need a strong computer except for developing for BSD?

------
zem
i keep wondering whether i should check out razer or dell for my next laptop,
but i can't give up my thinkpad keyboards.

