
Why I’m taking full responsibility for my education - Jarred
http://jarredsumner.com/blog/post/20300793172/why-im-taking-full-responsibility-for-my-education
======
victork2
Hi,

I respect you point of view but... it won't hold for high level education. Let
me explain why:

* I just wish people could forget the idea that Math is fun. It is not. It's interesting, but it's not fun and can be totally counter intuitive, thus there is no "fun" way to demonstrate it. You are mentioning about Geometry but the geometry you are talking about is a very very very tiny subset of what geometry is at a higher level. It's not an topic from Geometry but for example how do you demonstrate that the ensemble of invertible matrix is dense in the set of R(n,n) matrix in a visual manner? These concepts are so abstract that they become too hard to demonstrate. Achilles tendon of most american students I have known and I have worked with is that they are extremely dependent of a representation of what they are dealing with and they struggle with very abstract concept while in the Russian/ French/ Chinese education teachers teach very early to student to manipulate abstract objects (4-D vectors, advanced algebra etc... are often seen in high school).

* The "get less point if you hand back the report late" is actually a good thing for your students. Read one of the Dan Ariely book that showed that this pace helps students study and in the end they end up having better marks. That's the sad human psychology.

* For the theorem you need to learn to be a programmer I agree, you don't need them to be a decent coder. However... there's a say among lawyers: "A good lawyer knows the law, an excellent lawyer knows the judge". If you want to be a great programmer sometimes tools at your disposal fall short and... it's your turn to create. This is the moment where theorems become really important and a great programmer will know how to leverage them whereas a decent programmer will fall short. "A good programmer knows the tools, an excellent programmer knows the theorems" !

~~~
kylebrown
> _I just wish people could forget the idea that Math is fun. It is not. It's
> interesting, but it's not fun and can be totally counter intuitive, thus
> there is no "fun" way to demonstrate it._

I couldn't disagree more. As an example, linear algebra is something that has
been bothering me for years, long after my college math courses. One of its
central topics is eigenvectors and eigenvalues. Every textbook I can remember
would demonstrate these with pictures of a sheared rectangle (or a sheared box
in 3d). That's fine, but it isn't fun and its not motivating, so no surprise
that the concept never clicked.

Then very recently, while browsing wikipedia I came across an excellent
demonstration of the concept: "eigenfaces" used in facial recognition
software. Its fun, useful, and it clicked.

> _how do you demonstrate that the ensemble of invertible matrix is dense in
> the set of R(n,n) matrix in a visual manner?_

You could draw a picture of a circle, emphasizing the line of the circle as
the boundary of the set. The invertible matrices are the interior of the
circle, and they complement the singular (non-invertible) matrices which are
represented by the boundary of the circle.

But more importantly, the teacher should first explain why this might be
useful to know in the most concrete way possible, whether its theory behind an
applied technique in engineering or a lemma used for an important abstract
theorem (no handwaving - tell what's important or significant about the
abstract theorem).

It is the teacher's job to motivate the students, good ones do so and bad ones
don't. Lazy teachers who don't think its their job to motivate students will
get exactly what they complain about: unmotivated students.

Students (American or otherwise) who are willing to just put their heads down
and drill rote symbol manipulation are doing themselves a disservice - it
generally does not lead to much insight or understanding of what they are
doing (though it may in the exceptional cases of very smart students),
especially as the math gets more advanced. Moreover, being adept at
calculating is not useful in the age of computers. You only need to do a
calculation once (as an algorithm in a computer program).

More important is to gain insight and understanding into the nature and
limitations of the subject matter. Then the student is more likely to
recognize the cases where it can be applied after they're done with the plug-
and-chug problem sets at the end of the chapter (which plague even advanced
math textbooks in the form of boilerplate theorem proofs). Of course, simply
showing how to plug-and-chug is easier for teachers so they praise obedient
students who are easily motivates and ask easy questions.

~~~
east2west
>I couldn't disagree more. As an example, linear algebra is something >that
has been bothering me for years, long after my college math >courses. One of
its central topics is eigenvectors and eigenvalues. >Every textbook I can
remember would demonstrate these with >pictures of a sheared rectangle (or a
sheared box in 3d). That's fine, >but it isn't fun and its not motivating, so
no surprise that the concept >never clicked.

>Then very recently, while browsing wikipedia I came across an >excellent
demonstration of the concept: "eigenfaces" used in facial >recognition
software. Its fun, useful, and it clicked.

I couldn't disagree more with your disagreement. Eigenvectors and eigenvalues
are abstraction of things observed in many places and studied in one place so
you can apply it to everywhere. Eigenface is simply an instance of linear
space dimension reduction, whose implementation, by the way, is based on
eigenvectors' connection to SVD and covariance matrix. Eigenface won't help
with Taylor series definition of matrix exponential, nor solution of linear
ODEs, nor Jordan canonical forms. Can anyone say those are not important
topics of eigenvalues and eigenvectors?

If you truly want to understand something, there is no shortcut. You have to
dig deep, look at and learn related topics, think hard about how and why
scientists developed the subject this way. It takes time and concentration, a
lot of them. Then you will gain something, and you need to keep at it to
master it. No one said knowledge is easy, especially deep knowledge.

>You could draw a picture of a circle, emphasizing the line of the circle >as
the boundary of the set. The invertible matrices are the interior of >the
circle, and they complement the singular (non-invertible) matrices >which are
represented by the boundary of the circle.

This demonstrates the pitfall of facile visualization, because the suggestion
is wrong. There are dense sets with no boundary. The simplest example I can
think of is rational numbers on the real line. It is dense on the real line,
yet between every two rational numbers there is an irrational number, and
between every two irrational numbers there is a rational number.

>But more importantly, the teacher should first explain why this might >be
useful to know in the most concrete way possible, whether its >theory behind
an applied technique in engineering or a lemma used >for an important abstract
theorem (no handwaving - tell what's >important or significant about the
abstract theorem).

This is easier said than done. At best, it is impractical; at worst, fantasy.
Who is going to spend a week of lectures to explain one application in a
possibly obscure engineering field. What about the fact no everyone is from an
engineering department.

Sometimes theorems are useful for proving other theorems and then for proving
other theorems. Gershgorin circle theorem is mainly useful for proving bounds
about eigenvalues. That is it. I couldn't motivate more than that. It has
application in numerical linear algebra, but it amounts to another proof and
you need to go pretty deep in matrix analysis to appreciate it.

>Students (American or otherwise) who are willing to just put their >heads
down and drill rote symbol manipulation are doing themselves a >disservice -
it generally does not lead to much insight or >understanding of what they are
doing (though it may in the >exceptional cases of very smart students),
especially as the math gets >more advanced. Moreover, being adept at
calculating is not useful in >the age of computers. You only need to do a
calculation once (as an >algorithm in a computer program).

This I strenuously disagree. Math, like every human endeavor, requires
practice and lots of it. If you cannot recall a pertinent theorem at will,
then you will not be able to use it to prove it. You don't have to remember
every theorem for all time, but when you need it you better. And practice does
develop insights and understandings, which I can personally attest to.
Advanced math especially requires a familiarity with basics, for no computer
will prove for you a countra-positive.

I am opposed to rote learning. Who isn't? Specifically, I am opposed to
Chinese teachers' mind-numbing deluge-of-exercises approach. All the proofs
are nothing more than bags of tricks and they seem to take special delight to
confuse students by not explaining things fully. I so detest that mindset. The
U.S teachers are much better. There are good teachers and bad teachers, of
course, and I suspect college professors can be a lot better if they actually
put the necessary time in. American textbooks are leagues ahead. But one thing
I have learned since is that in the end you have to remember the theorems and
tricks because: THEY ARE MATH.

>More important is to gain insight and understanding into the nature >and
limitations of the subject matter. Then the student is more likely >to
recognize the cases where it can be applied after they're done with >the plug-
and-chug problem sets at the end of the chapter (which >plague even advanced
math textbooks in the form of boilerplate >theorem proofs). Of course, simply
showing how to plug-and-chug is >easier for teachers so they praise obedient
students who are easily >motivates and ask easy questions.

This I agree in general. It is after you gain insights and understanding can
you innovate and advance. It is remarkable how many Ph.D.'s never master their
fields. But it is hard and time consuming. My ideal of math textbook is
Richard Courant's "Introduction to calculus and analysis." It is a perfect
blend of mathematical rigor and insightful intuition. It is sad that I didn't
have it as my introductory calculus textbook. It used to be the standard intro
textbook in the West.

I suspect, and I could be wrong, the reason you blame teachers so much is that
they didn't teach deep enough and you are smart enough to realize there is
more. They had to be "easy" because it is already hard enough for some
students. And this may be the ultimate problem with public education: it needs
to teach the everybody but it can only do so by dumbing down the curriculum.
That and it is expensive to teach but we want to do it on the cheap.

------
blindhippo
The author doesn't know enough to know what they don't know.

A high school student doesn't have enough knowledge nor experience to be
writing essays on educational theories. This entire post reads as a "I didn't
get taught the way I thought I should, so I'm mad about it" rant.

Get your diploma, get a degree and come back in 5 years when you've got some
solid education and life experience. You might be able to figure out why the
education system is setup the way it is after that (hint: it isn't setup to
promote effective education).

------
quanticle
_For example, why do students lose points for late homework? In what way is
homework less valuable the day after it was due, besides a rule that just says
so?_

The point isn't to demonstrate the value of the homework. As you just stated,
the homework itself often has very little intrinsic value. The value is to get
you used to dealing with deadlines. Do you really think that your boss is
going to let you miss deadline after deadline without a credible reason? Even
if you don't have "boss" in the traditional sense (e.g. if you're doing a
startup) do you think your investors are going to let you miss multiple ship
dates without consequence?

You might not like it, but that's the way the world works. People need to plan
ahead, and they need your products, assignments, code, or whatever by a
certain date, otherwise it affects their plans. In the case of your teacher,
he or she isn't assigning the deadline to be arbitrary or capricious. He or
she is making the assignment due by a particular date so that he or she can
get it graded and back to you in a timely manner. Submitting assignments
whenever might be okay if you're the only one in the class. But if you take
your attitude and multiply it out by the twenty, thirty (or sometimes even
forty) other students he or she has to teach, it's a recipe for chaos.

~~~
mseebach
It's about respecting other people. That's why it feels crappy to have put in
effort to meet a deadline, only to learn that your work is sitting untouched
in an inbox for days: The respect wasn't repaid.

------
peter_l_downs
> By officially going to a public high school, students cede a

> large portion of their responsibility for their education to the school.

> In other words, if you aren’t learning much, it’s the school’s fault.

I'm a senior at a public high school, and I absolutely disagree. The onus to
learn _always_ falls on the individual. I refuse to believe that there is a
student anywhere that really wants to learn but cannot. Libraries and the
internet are always available, as are other people — all of these resources
can be learned from.

The author seems unhappy with their high school experience. Public schooling
may have its flaws, but to blame one's lack of an education on one's school
would be misguided.

> For example, a good way of teaching Geometry is to have students write a
> graphics renderer.

No it wouldn't. Not everyone is interested in programming or computer games.

~~~
timwiseman
I partially agree. The onus is always on the indivdual. An organized class can
provide comraderie, a place to ask questions, guidance, and many other
benefits. But in the end, it is always up to the individual to get something
out of it. A determined person with some basic resources can learn without a
class, and a person who puts no effort in will not learn in even the best
class.

But as for _I refuse to believe that there is a student anywhere that really
wants to learn but cannot._ That is true, but only to a degree. There remain
plenty of places, even in America, where internet access is limited and a
young student in particular may not have the resources to get consistent and
frequent internet access. Similarly, there are places where the libraries are
not accessible in a practical way.

A truly determined person, such as Srīnivāsa Rāmānujan can rise above, but
they are the exceptions and even Ramanujan got help from people to reach his
peak.

~~~
peter_l_downs

        > There remain plenty of places, even in America, where internet access is
        > limited and a young student in particular may not have the resources to
        > get consistent and frequent internet access. Similarly, there are places
        > where the libraries are not accessible in a practical way.
    

Ok, I'll concede that there may be cases where it is impossible for a
determined individual to learn as much as they want. But in the majority
cases, I think the old adage "if there's a will, there's a way" remains
applicable.

------
DanBC
> _He suggested to use what teachers ask as a starting point_

You need to do this whatever you're doing. Learning at school? Learn more than
you need for the test. Learning at university / college? Learn more than you
get in lectures. Reading a newspaper? Learn more than they tell you. Reading
reports of research? Learn more about the research used.

> _but ithe project actively shows students, “Here’s a concrete application of
> what I’m teaching that you can benefit from.”_

BAH! Knowledge for knowledge's sake is a good thing. Clever exploration of
unknowns is an important driver for science. The most well known example of
this is Feynman. If you haven't read his books I thoroughly recommend them. He
sees something, and wonders why it happens, and then goes off to try to
understand it. He was a genius, and so his observations and explorations were
usually of interesting things that involved high level science, often unknown
at that time. But it's a useful principle.

> _Following directions has no intrinsic value: it’s a means to an end. For
> example, why do students lose points for late homework? In what way is
> homework less valuable the day after it was due, besides a rule that just
> says so?_

Unfortunately a lot of your school colleagues are going to end up in the kind
of jobs where "following directions" is all that's required. Here is an
important lesson: Sometimes you will have an idiot for a boss. That boss will
tell you to do something. S/he will tell you to do it in a certain way. You
will know, and have facts and evidence to support you that you're being asked
to do something stupid, or in a stupid way. You might even be able to put a
monetary figure on it - "doing this will cost us $X every month!". It is very
frustrating, but sometimes NO ONE CARES. All they care about is the fact that
you did what you were asked.

Also, getting work done early is usually a good thing. Learning to plan and
prioritise work is an important life lesson, so learning to hand it in on time
(with gentle penalties for lateness) is important. Often late doesn't mean
"minus one point" it means "tough shit you blew it".

Good luck though, you sound motivated and committed.

------
typicalrunt
It's all a journey. Some good, some bad. I believe everyone needs to start
that journey but not everyone needs to see it to completion.

Naively, I like to think that nobody should look back on high school,
university, or anything until many years AFTER it has completed. Only then
have you progressed far enough away from the experience to make an objective
view of it.

------
draggnar
Today's Calvin and Hobbes is relevant:
<http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2012/04/02>

~~~
tkahn6
In my experience the institution itself (the state-mandated curriculum, the
teachers, other students) is the limiting reagent, not the individual student
who wants a meaningful education.

There's only so much you can do when everyone around you wants to know if
"this is going to be on the test?" rather than "is there a deeper meaning to
what this character said?".

~~~
sopooneo
Keep in mind that there are _lot's_ of ways for a school to be bad. I'm always
frustrated when people say "the problem with education in this country..." and
then list the particulars of _their_ experience. There is a vast diversity of
dysfunction ranging from crumbling physical plant to horrible teachers and
sometimes lousy parents and lazy students. There are also some phenomenal
public schools in the United States.

------
tomjen3
That is a good start, but you should also take responsibility for the rest of
your life.

In fact, everybody should do this.

It is called being an adult.

------
joejohnson
I think the author makes some good points, but for the wrong reasons. A lot of
the issues he complains about (lateness policies, taking the "fun" out of
learning, ...) stem from other skills that HS is attempting to teach. He is
correct in assuming that these skills are important for a student entering
college.

However, I think he was on the right track when he wrote "High school isn’t
educational because it incentivizes a credential only meaningful to
universities instead of educating students." This isn't entirely true; high
school students will learn things that will be useful even if they don't
attend college. But much of the material of a high school education (and the
way it is taught) supports the college-preparatory model.

Many students would do well to enter a trade school at an earlier age. Perhaps
the US high school education system could be streamlined if students decide
which track they were on earlier. Students who were set on college would
continue with the traditional HS model, while trade school students could
begin vocational training at age 16 or 17.

The real root of this issue is that there _is_ a demand for workers (in the US
economy) with skills above that of a HS diploma, but below that of a bachelors
degree. These certifications are specialized trade skills. These jobs are
relatively well-paying and continue an American economic tradition of entry-
level jobs which enable workers to work their way into the middle class.

However, trade schools are looked down upon. Many people go to college and end
up working in jobs which they are (supposedly) over qualified for. We need to
refocus our entire education system on what matters, and the perception of
these non-college degrees will change.

------
evincarofautumn
I, for one, agree with the author in large part. I’m in my fourth year of
college, about to graduate, and I can say that the majority of my school
experience has been an utter waste.

I love learning, and that’s why I’ve never been a great student. In middle
school and high school, I spent my free time learning about things that
interested me—especially programming. In that time I learned about
_everything_ I could because school wasn’t enough. Dynamics and kinematics,
geometry, optics, digital signal processing, splines, vector and matrix math,
programming language design, lambda calculus, type systems—things no student
my age was expected to know or care about.

I got high grades whenever I bothered to put in the busywork, but I had little
reason to. Points and grades aren’t _worth_ anything.

Pretending that grades have intrinsic value is toxic to learning and
innovative thinking. You get what the teacher explains straight away, and want
to move on? Not allowed: you have to go at everyone else’s pace. You want to
know more about a related topic? Too bad: you have to follow the curriculum.
You want to do projects with real-world value? As if! You have to do homework
and memorise information—sadly, the kind of information that might have deep
meaning to you if it were framed in another way.

I do think losing points for late assignments is fair, though. It
inconveniences the person doing the grading, and in the real world, lateness
isn’t tolerable. Besides, if you don’t follow the (meaningless) directions,
you should expect (meaningless) punishment.

But here’s the thing: would I have bothered to learn on my own if I hadn’t had
the insufficient school system to piss me off? Somehow, I think not.

~~~
jarrettcoggin
You don't have to go at the same pace as everyone else.If you want to sit
through the class, sure you can do that, or you can ask the
teacher/advisor/dean what it takes to test out of the class. Go buy the book
and go through all the examples and you should be able to test out of the
class most of the time. I did this with one of my classes, and if I were to go
back to school, I'd try to do this with every class that I could except
research classes.

~~~
evincarofautumn
I was never allowed to test out of classes. I always asked when I felt it was
reasonable, and always met with the same response. Though I did have a couple
of great professors who would stay with me after class occasionally to talk
about whatever I was working on at the time.

~~~
jarrettcoggin
I had one class that I wasn't allowed to test out of during my second to last
semester. The professor told us that all of the assignments were up on the
portal for the class. I asked him if I could turn in all of the assignments
the first week of class. He said yes but wasn't sure that I'd know the
material. I arranged a deal that I would turn in all of the assignments the
first week and as long as I got an A on every assignment, he would give me the
final the at the beginning of the third week and I wouldn't have to show up to
class again if I got an A. It's not always easy, and sometimes you've got to
get dean/provost approval, but if you really want to do something, you can
most likely do it.

------
Jarred
From reading the comments here, people seem to think I'm dropping out and
don't plan on going to university. Let me clear that up.

I'm going to get a Certificate of Profiency (I'm currently waiting for the
results). In California, it's legally required to be seen as the equivalent of
a high school diploma. It's essentially a GED for people under 18.

I plan on going to a high-end university in 1-2 years.

~~~
Steko
What's going to change at the university? I mean sure they have more variety
but aren't they incentivizing a credential? Are the teachers there magically
more fun or interested in teaching you?

~~~
blindhippo
The author will find out that not much is different in University. They might
even find out that University professors are even LESS incentivized to teach
specific students things then grade school teachers are.

Strong will and individual drive to learn define great university students -
hopefully this kid adheres to that path and capitalizes on the opportunities
University will open up for him. But he's currently dropping out of High
School and trying an alternate route because it doesn't meet his rather ill
informed expectations - if this occurs again at a higher educational
institute, he will be making a mistake.

One thing I've noticed about recent high school grads: they all seem to think
the world should meet their expectations and if not, there is something wrong
with everyone else. University is a great place to have that attitude beaten
out of you. If you don't come out of University humbled, you didn't go to a
good one.

Message to the author: university is going to kick your ass - start preparing
for it. If you do so, it sounds like you have the attitude and drive to do
very well for yourself. But make sure you learn what you don't know before you
start to solidify your opinions on things.

------
andrewfelix
_"Good teachers actively demonstrate why what they’re teaching is
interesting/useful/insightful."_

A lot of what you learn has benefits beyond being obviously useful and
insightful. It teaches you how to think.

I hated maths and couldn't understand the practical purposes of it. However it
helped me develop a way to think about problem solving much later in life. I
hated ancient history, What possible benefit does understanding the battle of
Troy have to do with me getting a job? It helped teach me critical thinking,
which is incredibly important.

While I agree there are problems with modern western education, you've just
taken a few of personal anecdotes and written off thousands of useful
programs.

------
davidwparker
While I agree with the concept, I also agree with blindhippo saying that the
author doesn't know enough to know what they don't know.

"A self-taught man usually has a poor teacher and a worse student." - Henny
Youngman

------
lukejduncan
This reminds me of a quote I enjoyed enough to write down:

"The difference between the university graduate and the autodidact lies not so
much in the extent of knowledge as in the extent of vitality and self-
confidence." - Milan Kundera (The Unbearable lightness of being)

------
mortuus
The author looks to be planning a future post on how he plans to take on this
responsibility. Can anyone (who feels that they have 'taken full
responsibility') share what path they have forged?

~~~
davegauer
Over the last fifteen years, I have taken full responsibility for my own
education.

Reading has played the most fundamental role in my education. I have always
loved learning from well-written books. At times, it might have been a
disadvantage to not have a mentor to guide my progress or to answer questions.
I'm certainly not a "gifted" learner and I have often spent long hours trying
to understand a page of a book. But it is always incredibly satisfying when I
finally do.

I think the most rewarding thing about taking responsibility for your own
learning is gaining both humility and confidence. I am humbled by the amount
of things I still have yet to learn in the enormous field of computer science.
But I have also gained an enormous confidence in my _ability_ to learn. I
know, from fifteen years of experience, that I can learn anything I want to as
long as I apply myself.

Another benefit is that books are far cheaper than classrooms, they're
portable, they go at your pace (you can turn the pages as quickly or slowly as
you want), and you can keep them on a shelf to refer to for the rest of your
life. And e-books are even better!

