

How to intern in Silicon Valley with a J1 visa - jorde
http://blog.sendtoinc.com/2013/12/11/silicon-valley-internship-j1-visa/

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amirnathoo
An amusing aside - from the Exchange Visitor Host Site Handbook which is sent
to supervisors of J1 program participants:

Signs of Cultural Adjustment Issues

“This country is really stupid…” - A common statement from trainees who are
seeing a cultural trait of the United States through the experience of their
own culture, not that of the U.S. A response might be, “Why do you suppose
we’ve done that for the last 200 years?”

“English doesn’t have enough words…” - A common statement from trainees who
cannot ﬁnd a way to express emotions that are described in their native
language, but not shared by the Anglo cultures.

“All I want to do is sleep…” – A common statement of depression brought on by
the overload of change.

“I’m gaining a lot of weight…” – The change in food often results in weight
gain. It is often diﬃcult for trainees to understand how to use local and
diﬀerent foods for a healthy diet.

“Americans ask ‘How are you doing, but don’t really want to know…”– An
accurate and common observation that may indicate the trainee is understanding
what is said literally, but not hearing the underlying or cultural meaning.

“Why should I celebrate your holiday; I’m not American…” – A common attitude
that could indicate the trainee is suﬀering a bit of cultural identity crisis.

~~~
visakanv
“Americans ask ‘How are you doing, but don’t really want to know…”

That's always kind of sad.

~~~
jotm
Just think of it as "Hi". Nothing more, nothing less. That's it, simple and
easy.

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patman_h
Having recently returned back to school after an 8mo internship in SF on a J1,
your write-up sounds pretty much spot on! I'll make sure this gets added to
our school's collection of documentation that gets sent out to co-ops going to
SF/NY/etc. each term.

A couple of things worth mentioning, though:

\- Rent at $1k/mo for rent is (now) hard to find unless you're living in a
living room or a slum. Prices for my friends ranged from $1300(decent place w/
2+ roomates) - $2000+(nice studio)

\- We all had pretty decent experience staying in a student hotel/hostel upon
immediately arriving in SF rather than relying on an airbnb or related. Places
like the Herbert Hotel
([http://theherberthotel.com/](http://theherberthotel.com/)) are ~$1100/mo
(can't confirm weekly/nightly rate) and are a great place to settle at first,
but you shouldn't bank on staying there for long. Bonus: you've got a "hotel"
booked once you arrive in SF (customs loves to hear this).

\- As soon as you get to SF, join the ~"bay area interns group" on Facebook,
invite the entire (2K+) group out for dinner wit hone post, and instantly meet
15+ new friends at once. It's definitely the best collection of smart,
talented, cool kids I've ever come across and everyone is working on something
cool (usually outside of work, too).

\- Here's another great write up (targeted at UWaterloo co-ops, but still
applicable): [http://stephenholiday.com/Unofficial-Waterloo-USA-Intern-
Gui...](http://stephenholiday.com/Unofficial-Waterloo-USA-Intern-Guide/)

Most importantly: someone PLEASE build a better product for visa sponsor
companies (Intrax for me, CIEE/local rep for you) to streamline the J1 (and
other visas, I'm sure) application process. I have never had a more
frustrating experience going back and forth via email with so many different
people at my sponsor company, having to upload identification and documents,
print/fill out/scan/send forms, and bug them for the status of my visa
application. The application fee was something my host company paid for
without hesitation and would have paid more for to streamline. I've looked
into this problem and would have built it myself if it weren't for the
bureaucratic requirements req'd by the US gov't (which are fair, just hard to
MVP) - ping me if you are interested in solving this problem :)

~~~
jorde
Thanks, I'll add some of these notes later. I was also pinged about
UWaterloo's unofficial guide earlier today and it's listed in links, overall
good stuff about living and practicalities.

I know that J1 process is relatively simple compared to other visa types but
it still takes a lot of time. I originally wrote this guide as I couldn't find
a good resource and I was the first student from my school to get the J1 for a
startup internship.

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jlees
I didn't see this point in the article, but I might have missed it:

On a J-1 visa you may have to return to your home country for 2 years after it
expires -- you can only visit on tourist/student visas in those two years, not
work in the US. I was subject to this, as a UK citizen interning in Redmond
between undergraduate years (in 2002), but I have not met many other J-1
holders and don't know how common it was.

[http://internationalaffairs.uchicago.edu/page/j-1-status-
two...](http://internationalaffairs.uchicago.edu/page/j-1-status-two-year-
home-residency-requirement-two-year-repeat-bar)

~~~
jorde
This is what is commonly known as Two Year Rule or 212(e) which is applicable
to few different situations, e.g. if you get a grant from your government for
your training or your profession is on your home country's skill list. It's
also pretty random and I for example was stamped with the rule but many
countries issues "no objection" letters which allow you to waive the
requirement. Two year rule does only affect some visa types, such as H1b but
not O1 or J1 visas.

Here's more information:
[http://www.isso.cornell.edu/academicstaff/jwaiver.php](http://www.isso.cornell.edu/academicstaff/jwaiver.php)

~~~
jlees
The visa types it affects are generally those which allow immigrant intent.
Non-immigrant intent visas are OK. The principle is that you're here for
specialised training, and have to take the knowledge home before immigrating.
But yeah, just check the small print (as with any immigration situation!).

------
stared
I had a similar story. And de facto I've heard such advice, but from a group
of people - it's nice to see it grouped. I would add one point: you DON'T need
a _local_ representative of CIEE. I did it with a US-based one,
[http://culturalvistas.org/](http://culturalvistas.org/) (I guess there are
more).

~~~
jorde
Added a note about this. I think there's quite a lot of these but not sure how
startup friendly most of them are.

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neil_s
What I find interesting though, is that OP went from interning at a YC
company, to founding one. Would love to learn more about that process, and the
visa situation throughout, since I don't think you can be founding companies
and getting investment on a J1 visa.

I interned with a big company this summer that had an established J1 process
(Microsoft), so didn't have to deal with a lot of these hassles - they
organised the J1 visa and sent me SEVIS papers that I simply took to the
embassy in London, and got my visa approved after a 2 minute interview. They
organise housing and give you a rental car or bike based on your preference.
The biggest worry for me was that they may incorrectly apply the 'home country
physical presence' requirement, since India lists every single possible skill
as wanted. Still, it's interesting to learn that the process is still doable
for small startups without the same resources, in case I need it in the
future.

~~~
jorde
I founded my own company after leaving my internship position and after my J1
ended. I'm on another visa now.

To my knowledge there's no limit to how many J1 visas one can have so you
could do another one in the future. The process isn't complicated but a small
startup probably doesn't have experience of it so you need to do the heavy
lifting there.

~~~
tomashertus
If I may ask you, what kind of visa do you have now? B or E? Or even something
else?

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ChronosKey
At my university (Waterloo), this is a pretty good everything-you-need-to-
know, but of course it's mainly for UWaterloo students (Canada)
[http://stephenholiday.com/Unofficial-Waterloo-USA-Intern-
Gui...](http://stephenholiday.com/Unofficial-Waterloo-USA-Intern-Guide/#)

------
tomashertus
lol:) I have almost the same story:) You've done it well.. Good article, but
there is also option to go for J1 Trainee program and its duration is up-to 18
months.

~~~
jorde
I'm aware of the Trainee program but little short on details as nobody I know
has done it. Do you know if the requirements differ much or if there's any
restrictions? Happy to update the article, I'm also adding a mention about Two
Year Rule (212e) as it can affect future visas.

~~~
zmitri
I did the J-1 trainee program for 18 months and went into an H1B from that. It
was ideal for me because I came right out of school without work experience
and it made the process very easy.

One downside was that I had to stay in the US between filing for H1B status
and receiving it (you file in the spring, but get the status on October 1st)
because the H1B is a dual intent visa (meaning you can state that you want to
stay in the US permanently and it is not just a temporary visa) in case they
questioned me at the border about the conflicting status of my J-1 and H1B
petition.

~~~
johnking
The J1 trainee program sounds really interesting (as I'm currently out of
education for > 12 months and therefore ineligible for the J1 intern program).

According to the j1visa.state.gov site one of the requirements for the J1
trainee program is:

"Has five years of work experience outside the United States in the
occupational field in which they are seeking training"

Did you meet this criteria or manage to circumvent it?

~~~
zmitri
I owned my own company throughout university so I just got letters of
reference from customers (aka my friends) that vouched for the work I did.

Remember, rules are made to be.. um fitted to your needs.

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Bahamut
$4k/month for living expenses...is it that bad in SF? That's pretty good $ for
much of the country, even some of the more expensive cities in the US.

------
coherentpony
Do _not_ wait 'a few weeks' before trying to get a social security number. You
_do_ have to be in the country for 10 days before you can apply, but apply
immediately after that.

You can't be paid without a social security number.

~~~
dublinben
Sure you can. You can get a TIN instead. Non-citizens shouldn't be able to get
a SS number.

~~~
jorde
J1 visa holders are instructed to get SSN, it's not limited to citizens at
all.

~~~
dublinben
Thanks, I had no idea. I guess legal immigration isn't talked about nearly as
much as illegal immigration.

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Xdes
>get at least $4k/mo to manage without savings

I'd love a $24/hr development position. Interns these days are getting paid
too well. I interned for half as much and I'm not making much more.

~~~
TulliusCicero
SF is really, really expensive.

~~~
tomsun
I interned in SF and other than the rent, everything else is cheaper comparing
to Canada. Aside from healthcare and education of course.

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glifchits
This is incredibly awesome! I will be reading and re-reading this article
hopefully many times in 2014 as I embark upon the startup internship journey
this year. Thanks so much!

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concise_unicorn
Having just secured my own J1 visa, I can attest to how relatively easy it
was.

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wz3chen
Anyone have experience with getting consecutive J1-visas (different
companies)?

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PaulHoule
Nice to see some talk on this subject other than about the notorious H-1B

~~~
zmitri
The reason is that J-1s are very easy to obtain if you have a willing sponsor.
There are companies that are setup to grant J-1s as a business.

You can easily do everything without a lawyer too. I paid for my initial 4
month work-travel visa for ~$400 USD.

H1B is a whole other story...

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pacofvf
I wonder how hard it is to get a TN visa (NAFTA)...

~~~
zmitri
Fairly easy if your job description fits into one of the 13 designated jobs
and you are from North America. Computer Systems Analyst and Graphic Designer
are two that can work for startups - but whatever you do, do not include
"programming" or "programmer" in your job description or tell the border agent
you are a programmer. "Programming" or "programmer" is a huge red flag for the
TN-1.

In fact, Microsoft brings on a lot of Canadian developers via TN Computer
Systems Analyst and outright tells them to lie at the border and say they
don't do any programming.

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Technologix
Great resource, thanks a lot!

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sgallant
Guybrush Threepwood FTW

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cyberaleck
What kind of visa do you hold right now jorde? I would really like to hear
more about the path from J1 visa intern to startup founder.

