
GM's new electric car battery tops Tesla's - prostoalex
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/04/business/gm-electric-car-battery-400-miles-of-range/index.html
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pmorici
This is an incredibly misleading article They conveniently left out the fact
that GM's proposed battery for their 400 mile car is double the size of the
battery Tesla currently uses to get 390 miles. GM said that they will offer a
200 KWh battery that will give their vehicle 400 miles of range at some point
in the next year or two. You can buy a Tesla today with a 100 KWh battery that
get 390 Miles of range. This isn't a positive thing for GM it means their cars
are going to be more expensive for the same range.

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new_realist
Maybe, but GM is also planning to use that battery for their electric Hummer,
which is a significantly bigger car than any Tesla. Teslas have weird, non-
mainstream shapes to boost efficiency.

I’d also note that Tesla EPA range is extremely aggressive (they set their own
dyno multipliers) while other EV manufacturers are more conservative. That
means roughly 75% range for Teslas in the real world.

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tway009
To second this, on a closed loop track at constant 75mph, Car and Driver found
that the Taycan Turbo S (EPA 192mi) and Model S Performance (EPA 326-346 mi)
had similar range in real-world testing. You can probably argue with the
methodology but achieving Tesla's 70% EPA range advantage would not have been
realistic in that test.

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pmorici
The Taycan is double the cost of the Model S so even if they are the same
range under this one use case which is probably not typical driving for many
mean the Taycan is over priced for it's capabilities at best.

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GusRuss89
So good to see competition and progress on this front - regardless of where it
comes from. I wonder how the scale of GM vs Tesla's R&D spend compares. Also
didn't Tesla open source their battery tech?

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maxerickson
The press release is more informative than the current link:

[https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content...](https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/mar/0304-ev.html)

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pentae
Nothing really mentioned about longevity of this new pouch design. The
impressive thing about the Tesla batteries is not only are they efficient when
it comes to range but they are also built to last 100s of thousands of miles.

~~~
threeseed
You mean like the thousands of Model S/X owners who had a software update
significantly reduce range due to battery issues:

[https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/10/18/20919396/tesla-
batte...](https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/10/18/20919396/tesla-batteries-
software-update-electric-car-fires-range-lawsuit-consumers-guillermo-perez-
chicago)

If you look at companies like Audi, Porsche etc you actually find that they
reserve more of the battery capacity for future degradation than Tesla.

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toomuchtodo
> If you look at companies like Audi, Porsche etc you actually find that they
> reserve more of the battery capacity for future degradation than Tesla.

But their range is pathetic. Audi e-tron is 204 miles, the Porsche Taycan
Turbo is 201. My 100D Model S is 319 miles at 100% SOC (down from 330 miles
after ~36k miles), and I get pretty damn close to that if I don't cruise at
80-90 mph (versus the more efficient 70mph). This is with a non-Raven
drivetrain; a Raven drivetrain with front permanent synchronous reluctance
motor from a Model 3 gets even more range (assume 390 miles is highly
optimistic from the EPA test cycle, you're still going to get around 350 miles
from it at high speeds or stomping on it). _And I get a Supercharger network,
which I don 't get with non-Tesla vehicles_.

I don't much care about long term degradation though; data shows Tesla packs
have longevity for hundreds of thousands of miles, and at the rate of battery
cost decline [1], I'll be able to swap out the pack for a cheaper, better one
in 8-10 years. Why can't legacy automakers do this? Because they don't build
the batteries, they're stuck with contracts to folks like LG Chem.

I agree with your link about those older 85kw battery pack owners; Tesla
should make them whole instead of nerfing the packs for safety reasons through
voltage limits. I assume it'll be resolved with compensation resulting from a
class action, which it should be. Looking at public data from a larger cohort
of the Model S and X fleet, degradation is typically not substantial.

[1] [https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-as-
mark...](https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-as-market-ramps-
up-with-market-average-at-156-kwh-in-2019/)

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kaonwarb
Glad to see more competition - but let's see these in production before saying
they "top" anything else.

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vikramkr
I think GM gets some leeway here for having the bolt, being an established car
manufacturer, etc. Yeah, there's always a chance it ends up not materializing,
but that chance is far lower than the chance that one of those random new car
companies that show up as CES every year don't materialize. I think that from
the perspective of a customer looking to buy a new vehicle in the next 2-5
years, this is serious enough to consider maybe holding off on getting a model
3 after getting a raise or something and keeping that beater for a year or two
longer in case GM comes out with something compelling, or the threat of it
gets tesla to up their game even more.

~~~
phkahler
GM also did the material science for the magnets everyone uses today. They
also worked with semiconductor companies to advance the state of the art in
IGBTs back in the EV1 days. Yes, they are an old global behemoth in the rust
belt, but that doesnt mean they can't innovate.

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jillesvangurp
Smart move to invest in production capacity for batteries developed in house.
There are now several car manufacturers securing large amounts of battery
capacity and several that clearly have issues with this. VW announced they
have secured enough volume for 1m cars until 2023. That sounds like a lot
until you realize that Tesla volumes are probably hitting that a lot sooner.
Hence their other announcements that they are merely trying to keep up with
Tesla as opposed to beating them (which is not a realistic goal for them short
term).

Basically there are several companies who at the same time are trying to
secure battery supplies while still peddling hybrids and hydrogen as well
because they know they don't have enough batteries. E.g. Hyundai and Honda
have a few popular EV models that are pretty hard to order (long delivery
times/waiting lists) because production volume is limited. The reason is not
because the manufacturer doesn't want to sell more but because they are unable
to produce more; mainly because of a lack of access to batteries.

GM making this move means they mean business. They announced lots of different
EV models a few days ago and to ship them in volume, they'll need batteries.
Obviously they seem confident about their technical ability. We'll see. But
getting production volumes up is going to be key for them. The demand is
currently being served by their competitors (Tesla mainly).

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RickJWagner
Awesome! Competition improves everybody's game.

On to the next step!

