
Apple’s ‘Behind the Mac’ ads have a double meaning - mikece
https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/15/17467232/behind-the-mac-behind-the-competition
======
blakesterz
Honest question... how is this happening? Apple has 123 thousand employees
(assuming whatever I just read is correct) and has the largest market cap of
any publicly traded company. They're sitting on way over $200 billion. I would
think they have the people and the money to make everything AMAZING, but so
much of what they are putting out now seems... I dunno, just meh.

What are all those people working on? I don't think it's fair to expect them
to reinvent and innovate the heck out of everything all the time, but after
reading this I can't help but think "what are they doing?".

They have SO SO MUCH. So many people, so much money, so much everything,
but... I dunno, from where I sit I don't see much interesting coming out.

I could be wrong, maybe I'm missing some things they're doing. I don't mean to
say they're not doing anything, but with all they have, it seems like they
could be doing so much more. Or am I wrong?

~~~
doodpants
> I don't think it's fair to expect them to reinvent and innovate the heck out
> of everything all the time

I think the problem is that Apple themselves want to reinvent and innovate the
heck out of everything all the time, so they're making it harder than it needs
to be. New Mac Mini? Easy: spec bump the current form factor. New Mac Pro?
Easy: put the latest and greatest CPU/GPU in the old cheese-grater enclosure.
But no, Apple needs to contantly make everything
smaller/thinner/lighter/quieter, so they redesign the enclosure and reengineer
the internals from scratch. While they're busy doing this, they continue to
sell the old unimproved products for years.

Yes, Apple, we know you can innovate. But you say that for every "yes" there
are a thousand "nos". Have you considered saying "no" to a complete
reinvention of your hardware when your current offerings are so out-of-date?
Your customers would be happy with a spec bump of the current form factors.

~~~
mortenjorck
> _I think the problem is that Apple themselves want to reinvent and innovate
> the heck out of everything all the time, so they 're making it harder than
> it needs to be._

This right here is what I believe to be the central problem with the Mac's
strategy since about 2013. Somehow, “can’t innovate” became this thorn in the
side for Apple management, this black eye that they felt they had to come back
from, to prove everyone wrong. No moment better expresses this than Phil
Schiller's infamous “can’t innovate, my ass” ad-lib on the 2013 Mac Pro
unveiling.

And so what we have now is a pendulum that has swung entirely in the opposite
direction, arguably further than it ever was on the supposed “can’t innovate”
side: Every Mac launch must be “innovative.” Every new Mac must showcase new
design and technologies or break new ground, and products that can’t support
this level of engineering investment (like the Mac Mini) get left behind.

In other words, the entire Mac business unit has transformed into a vanity
project. My dream would be for “vanity project” to become the new “can’t
innovate” - a challenge that spurs Apple to action in correcting course on its
oldest product line.

And perhaps some day, Schiller will take the stage to announce a boring, but
pragmatic new line of workhorse Macs, and mutter “vanity project, my ass.”

------
stilldavid
Kind of a rip off of this blog post[0] from Rogue Amoeba, down to the same
screenshot and everything.

[https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-
state-o...](https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-
macintosh-hardware/)

~~~
frereubu
Extensive HN discussion about the original blog post here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588)

------
elicash
It's fine to criticize the Mac, but using the marketing phrase to do so makes
no sense except to say it's false. If it had a double meaning that would mean
other computers were... behind the Mac. How would a double-meaning on the
phrase make it sound like the Mac was behind other computers?

------
to_bpr
I've been a mac user for a long, long time... but their approach to their
hardware offerings has been abysmal over the past couple of years.

The pivot from being the tool of choice for professionals to being the word
processor and social media browsing terminal for ignorantly enthusiastic
consumerists has been unappealing to say the least.

A home build with Linux and the new OnePlus 6 is starting to look like a very
attractive alternative at this point.

~~~
chrisseaton
Why do you have to put people down who aren't professionals and who consume
media as 'ignorant'?

Not requiring a high-spec machine makes you 'ignorant'?

~~~
tmpz22
$2000 for a machine used only for Netflix streaming, Facebook, and basic web
browsing, is pretty ignorant.

~~~
chrisseaton
It's not ignorant, it's just a choice you personally wouldn't make. Maybe
people value the design of the device rather than the tech specs? Who knows?

------
TheSpiceIsLife
Why is Apple still selling any of this stuff?

Presumably people are either: a) still buying these devices, or b) they aren't

Either case can be used as a reason not to bother updating them.

I'm running a 2012 AMD rig at work with GTX 650 Ti and four displays, and at
home a late 2012 Core i5 MacBook Pro Retina, and I don't feel compelled for
technical reasons to upgrade to anything faster.

It's not like a new Mac or PC will play streaming movies any better. I'm
actually glad to see the end of needing to upgrade every few months.

~~~
snambi
In my company IT upgrades the laptops. Most people hate it, but IT doesn't
care. This is the reason apple is still selling that crap. Apple is running on
Inertia. Pretty soon people will move to other alternatives.

~~~
devonkim
Apple becoming the thing they rallied against in the early 2000s is a sad
state for the company despite its earnings. But investors are aware that they
need to get ahead on something to keep that going at least.

When Microsoft’s Surface series looks really attractive to me after 15 years
of OS X and Mac investment, I’m not sure if Apple really can pull ahead
without a massive game changer. Incremental changes so far are pointing to IOS
application-ification of the entire Mac ecosystem.

------
djsumdog
I got one of these new MacBooks at my new job (I requested a PC so I could run
Linux, but they had already ordered a Mac) and I think I lasted on macOS for
two days before I installed Linux. It was a pain to get working, but I'm
really glad I did:

[https://penguindreams.org/blog/linux-on-a-macbook-
pro-14-3/](https://penguindreams.org/blog/linux-on-a-macbook-pro-14-3/)

I haven't been a fan of osx since Snow Leopard, back before they destroyed
Expose and replaced it with that Mission Control rubbish and completely
mutilated Final Cut Pro.

------
harel
I've always stated that Macs are a User's machine, not a Pro machine. And no
number of "Pros" on stickered macs in conferences will convince me otherwise.
The thing with a User's centric machine is that there are WAY more users than
pros. Pro is a niche market. A sizeable one, but still niche compared to User
space.

------
jacebot
I honestly think everyone is missing some cues Apple has been sending.

They're building their own chip for desktops. Wait... let me hypothesize and
break it down for you one time.

One, the recent privacy concerns and backdoor built in for AMD and Intel
chips. They riding that we care about your data train.

Two, their homegrown Axx chip is in all new mobile devices. Whats to stop them
from making a bigger one or use the same one for desktops? Probably why the
new Mac Pro has been delayed as well as other device refreshes. And letting
the profit of the under spec'd overpriced Imac Pro fund them in the mean time.

Three, their recent poaching of Intel employees and hiring of linux devs too.
I would assume for low level engineering. Maybe even integrated graphics too?

Four, Macs originally used to have their own custom ARM chip, so Apple has a
history of being self contained. One of the adages to tech is build, partner,
buy. You usually do one until you can do one of the others.

I suspect you will see them release a new desktop(s), running their newly made
chip, possibly with integrated graphics like they do now for the mobile
devices. Some abilities to upgrade, so they can get you on the over priced
upgrades and accessories. Like RAM, HDD, and maybe, just maybe CPU. That last
one I am on the fringe with, I know.

Again this is just my observation, and hopefully I can look back on this post
some day and either laugh or be like I told ya'll so.

Thanks for reading this post.

------
mnm1
The real message is exactly the opposite of what the article supposes. The
real message, now directly from Apple, is "fuck you, our old ass shit is good
enough for you cause we say so." This is obvious because they are spending
money on marketing rather than on actual products. Probably, they aren't
planning on releasing anything new this year nor fixing their egregious issues
with both hardware and software. Why would they when most people are perfectly
happy to give them money for inferior, outdated, and recently garbage
products? Apple doesn't care about customers, they care about numbers and the
numbers are telling them there is no market for laptops and desktops anymore.
Too bad there's more to running a business than numbers and I suspect Apple is
about to find that out the hard way over the next decade. From the brink of
bankruptcy to the brink of bankruptcy would not surprise me at this point
given their horrific product offerings these last three years, including ios
and iphones.

------
toyg
I bought the late 2016 mbp on a whim (the price in Japan was just too good to
ignore) but I'm so disappointed. The keyboard is trash, I dread every time I
have to work without an external one. I barely ever use that keyboard, and yet
after 14 months the "b" key is somehow faulty. I had to start putting all
dongles in checked-out baggage because airport security now thinks I'm
carrying bombs -- nobody would have that many short cables in a carry-on! The
enlarged trackpad is almost comical, without actually helping anything; and
the touchbar is just another set of lights I never look at.

I'm now worried I'll never be able to flog this for even 20% of what I paid,
and I'm so tempted to switch to a prebuilt Linux laptop -- there are a few
options with chassis that look a lot like the 2015 MBPr...

The feeling of complete technological triumph that I got from the previous
MBPr model (5 years of service, barely a scratch) has fully evaporated, and no
amount of propaganda will change that.

~~~
jacebot
I am glad I am not alone in feeling like this. I too have a mbp, and somehow,
Apple has lost the magic that once captured me. Even adding apple care, now
has to be when you buy the device. Its no longer, one year, plus at the end of
the year, add some apple care to extend it for a total of 3 years.

I have been leaning towards some of the same ideas and laptops. You may want
to check out System76 if you haven't already.

------
pbnjay
Should be re-titled "Behind ON the Mac" to fit better.

I use my early 2015 MacBook Pro for some heavy work, I would love to upgrade
soon but TBH I'm looking more at Thinkpads than Apple products right now...

~~~
snambi
me too... current dell and thinkpads are very good specwise and lookwise, even
the touch pad is pretty good. if they sell Linux laptops I will get it the
next day.

~~~
davidy123
Thinkpads are Linux certified, I've installed Ubuntu on everything from
ancient models to a just-released X1 Yoga and in my experience all the
important things (excluding, say, fingerprint reader) "just work" out of the
box.

------
moistoreos
It's not hard to do spec upgrades. They do it for their iPhones. They can
certainly do it for their desktop/laptop computers. As a developer, I really
like my late 2016 MBP. However, I think it's absurd that I can walk into the
store a few years later and purchase the exact same computer.

Seriously Apple, no one expects innovation every year on the desktop. But for
christ sake, update the CPU and increase the RAM since you soldered it on a
few years ago.

------
nipponese
It takes a lot of guts to use an early Daniel Johnston song in a national ad
campaign.

~~~
michrassena
It does. And it's one of my favorites. But I really don't know what Apple is
trying to say. It's not a song that fills me with positive feelings.

------
protomyth
I honestly think having a operations guy in charge is worse than having
marketing in charge. At least marketing listens to the customers. Apple needs
another product person who cares about quality of the Apple experience and not
maximizing profit margin in the supply chain by producing older models or
making questionable quality affecting decisions.

------
lakechfoma
I'm pretty over maintaining Linux on my laptop, Windows 10 in general, and
most hardware coming from the "PC" side of the market. I'm also looking to get
into iOS development.

What do I buy? I'm thinking the cheapest Air. I don't want to drop twice that
for something that seems so reviled that they must update it soon. But can I
do iOS dev on an Air? Are refurbed previous gen MBPs good quality for the
price?

Do I wait till September and cross my fingers for an improved next gen that
isn't $200 more expensive?

~~~
martin-adams
2 years ago I got a 2013 model Macbook Air with 512GB SSD / 8GB RAM for app
development. Turns out I now use it as my daily driver and I had preordered
the original Surface Book. Being a Windows user something made me switch
(first Mac with an SSD and an ultrawide monitor).

I basically leave it docked all the time. I really want to upgrade because I
need more RAM and for video editing. But to give you an idea, I'm using it
perfectly fine with XCode running docker containers with Mongo/Neo4j etc.
Email, web and office stuff is no issue at all.

I paid about £940 ($1200) in Jan 2016. After all this time, I can sell it for
£300 (30% of it's original value).

~~~
lakechfoma
Ah that's pretty encouraging. I see an $809 model right now from 2015 with
8GB/128GB which is all I need for my current day-to-day.

I'm not even sure how iOS development works yet, but you think the <2 GHz
processor is fine with the whole toolset? Any complaints at all? Like any CPU
intensive aspects that get bogged down

~~~
martin-adams
The CPU is ok, not brilliant but works. I agree with the sibling comment that
the 128GB will be a squeeze. For me RAM and storage (SSD) are most important.

I've also used VirtualBox a lot on this little thing and played in the iOS
simulator (mainly to reproduce web bugs).

------
kjeetgill
Minor nit: In case anyone was confused as I was, "lose the plot" is a British
idiom [0]. It means, "To lose sight of an important objective or principle; to
act contrarily to one's own interests through concentrating on relatively
unimportant matters."

[0]:
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lose_the_plot](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lose_the_plot)

------
eb00
Seeing a post about the decline of the Apple product line is like a daily
ritual on this site now.

When the gap between products was short the Apple secrecy could be fun and
exciting. That is no longer the case. Now I just feel like they have contempt
for me.

------
ForrestN
This is an embarrassingly empty article. They used the word “behind” in an
ad... so here’s a bulleted list of things people complain about regarding
their products?

------
scroot
They should be using their insane amounts of cash and market power to
completely re-invent personal computing.

------
coldseattle
It's better than the Apple ad about "facilitated communication" \-- a
completely discredited way of getting non-verbal people to "talk" with what is
essentially a Ouija board. _That_ was the most distasteful Apple ad ever.

------
softwarefounder
That voice over on the video was pretty annoying.

