
Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech - bluesmoon
http://blog.swiftkickonline.com/2010/07/valedictorian-speaks-out-against-schooling-in-graduation-speech.html
======
pgbovine
<rant>

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often
overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing
rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit,
discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or
tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people,
the biggest determiner of 'success' or 'happiness' in adult life isn't raw
intelligence or inspiring creativity, but rather the ability to just finish
something! even the most anti-establishment f __*-the-man entrepreneurs here
on HN would never have succeeded in their businesses without GRIT.

how many friends do you know who say "oh i'm so much smarter than all these
tools who got good grades" but then they can never actually finish any one of
their 'divinely-inspired' projects because they quit as soon as some part gets
tedious or boring?

in short, yes, public schooling can be improved in many ways (so can the
registration process at the DMV or other bureaucracies), but i hope people out
there realize the value of developing grit through doing seemingly boring rote
work.

</rant>

~~~
pavelludiq
I can spend 8 hours programming a computer with just 1 or two 20 minute brakes
for eating or a mug refill, but i found it impossible to concentrate for a 40
minutes high-school chemistry class. Could it be that school is just BORING?

I can read a thick book on a hard subject(programming, philosophy, history),
but could never finish a fucking chapter from a high-school text book, without
falling asleep. Could it be that the textbooks are badly written?

I can spend days and weeks writing an essay on something that interests me,
but i fucking hated writing 3 paragraph short essays in school. Could it be
the topics, the format and especially the time constrain made me write badly?

If school taught me anything is that unless im working for myself on what i
want, its better to just half ass everything, and not do your best, because
all it takes is to not be your worst. It probably made me even less
disciplined because my natural rebelliousness made me pride myself as an
undisciplined misfit. I was proud of being lazy, stupid, stubborn, rebellious
and all of that precisely because they wanted me to not be like that. Fuck
school. It messed me up, and caused me great suffering with very little
benefit, when at least in my case, there was a clearly better way of doing
things.

~~~
yason
_If school taught me anything is that unless im working for myself on what i
want, its better to just half ass everything, and not do your best, because
all it takes is to not be your worst_

This is so true. I realized this very thing myself in the second year in high
school. I thought: what the hell am I doing trying to get good grades—from
every subject?

I had been doing precisely that _just because I could_ and with the eerie
awareness of the fact that I would forget 95% of anything deemed uninteresting
right after the course. When it came to subjects tangential to my interests, I
realized that I was certainly not going to learn something in school that I
couldn't learn by myself.

If I ever needed to cross check which European country invaded which other
European country in the 1600's, how to translate "dear girl, I want to marry
you for the rest of my life" to German should the opportunity arrive, or
desperately need to exercise in some molecular calculations, then I was
convinced that I would still have the chance to learn that stuff.

Except for the subjects of my interest, I then dropped all my effort to the
very, very minimal level and as a result my grades dropped slightly. It was
probably the 20% of effort, 80% of results scheme in action. In some subjects
that I had decided to completely ignore, like religion courses (yes, we had
those in Finland...), I let my grades drop to the minimum that was required to
avoid flunking and was actually pretty proud of that result.

I graduated with good grades in everything I cared about. My high school
diploma then exhibited real value for the period of a mere month until it
claimed its purpose and I got accepted to the university. I've never needed it
after that.

And, by the way, except for mathematics, 99% of what I learned in high school
I have never ever needed since. I'm 32 now and I'm glad my teenage realization
turned out to be correct.

~~~
nimms
careful on dismissing which European country invaded which European country
etc. Unless people have a good understanding of history, they're doomed to
repeat it. Something that becomes very clear in times of strife such as the
recent world financial crisis.

One thing that school is good for is exposing you to ideas that are normally
outside your sphere of interest, thus attempting to give you a balanced view
of the world.

Granted, they're not completely successful at this but I think a lot of that
has to do with our immaturity and privileged upbringing as much as it has to
do with boring subjects.

"Why do I have to learn this", "I'll never use this", etc etc. The catch cries
of a generation of students who have never had to fight for an education and
don't have the awareness of how tough life can be to be grateful for the
chance to gain one.

~~~
fleitz
Ironically the people behind the recent financial crisis are the product of
the best our educational system can produce.

~~~
carussell
Zing!

Or are/were they exhibiting the shallow results-driven sentiment reflected in
statements like "99% of what I learned in high school I have never ever needed
since."?

------
TGJ
All my math classes felt like that. I was simply being told to memorize
formulas so that later the teacher could give me numbers and I would plug them
in. Rarely was I ever told why I would want to use those formulas.

My best class was a chemistry course taught by a 60 year old man that used to
test missiles at one point. The grades never really mattered and as long as
you knew the vocabulary he would pass you. But where he made a difference was
giving us examples of why stuff worked along with how. For the final we had to
determine what an unknown substance was. There was no right method to do this,
just simply a number of different tests that we had to do and be able to
understand what the results were. We then had to 'think' as to what it might
mean about the substance we were testing. He set us free and we passed and
failed on our own accord because it was up to the students to read the book to
try and find just one more test that might give a better result.

The one lasting comment that my chemistry teacher told me was that he was not
concerned with how well we memorized things because he knew we would forget.
There would always be time to read up on whatever we were doing on the job. He
wanted us to have the core understanding so that when we did look up the
boiling point or specific gravity of a compound we would know what those facts
would signify as opposed to learning stats on the more common elements. Best
teacher I ever had because he didn't so much as teach me as he made me think
for myself.

~~~
vimalg2
This is what i've come to experience myself. Often a solid grasp of the core
fundamentals of your domain is more valuable that having a half-baked
knowledge of various in-depth areas.

Like the old man said, (or didn't) , You can always google it from your
exobrain.

I even recall Sherlock Holmes' character saying something to that effect; he
says something about the human brain having finite usable storage capacity
(with a low-enough access-time). I really liked reading that quote
(confirmation bias. he he)

~~~
loewenskind
Yes, that was in the first Sherlock Holmes book if I'm not mistaken. Sherlock
let it slip that he still thought the sun revolved around the earth. Watson
was outraged at such an outdated belief but Sherlock pointed out how it had no
bearing on what he did and therefor wasn't worth keeping up with.

I too was partial to this because I've always worked under a similar
assumption (limited space in your head for all the things you need so don't
waste it with useless info like who won the super bowl 3 years ago).

~~~
tome
He also said he would try hard to forget that the earth went round the sun, so
that he could reuse the memory space for other things.

~~~
whimsy
If he'd spent some space on neurology, he'd know that forgetting things
doesn't create space for new memories.

~~~
cynicalkane
It's worth remembering that the first Sherlock Holmes book is of significantly
lower quality than the rest of them, and doesn't fit the canon of the later
stories.

------
edw519
Oh come on now, Valedictorian, you can find plenty of important life skills to
be learned in school if you only look hard enough:

    
    
      kindergarden    - learn how to play nicely together
      first grade     - learn how to read and write
      second grade    - learn how to add, subtract, multiply, & divide
      third grade     - learn how to spell
      fourth grade    - learn how to play a musical instrument
      fifth grade     - learn how to appreciate great literature
      sixth grade     - learn how we got where we are
      seventh grade   - learn a foreign language
      eighth grade    - learn how to type and use a computer
      ninth grade     - learn how the world is put together
      tenth grade     - learn about other people in the world
      eleventh grade  - learn how to balance a job and school
      twelveth grade  - learn how to plan for and dream about the future
      freshman year   - learn how many other kinds of people are out there
      sophomore year  - learn how to chug a beer, fill a bong, and get laid
      junior year     - learn how to stand upon the shoulders of giants
      senior year     - learn how to find your place in the world
      graduate school - learn how to play nicely together, all over again

~~~
barredo
If someone starts learning a foreign language at 7th grade something is wrong
I think.

Question: Is this the general case for US Education?

~~~
adbge
US education in regards to foreign language varies widely. I was not presented
with the opportunity to take a foreign language until 9th grade (~14 years
old), while the district I currently live in offers Spanish education to
children age 7.

Edit: This is in Illinois. According to Wikipedia, we have the 7th largest
Spanish speaking population in comparison with other states. In my experience,
Spanish is the most widely offered secondary language, followed by French.
More uncommonly taught languages include Italian and German, and rarer still
are Eastern languages such as Japanese. Latin may still be offered in select
places, but has been largely phased out.

Source:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_in_the_United_States#Cu...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_in_the_United_States#Current_status)

~~~
enobrev
Just adding that I also wasn't exposed to foreign languages in school until
the 9th grade. This was in a private school in Chicago, Illinois.

------
kloncks
I would have loved to have the experience to not just hear her speech in
person, but to see the reactions from everyone. The faces of her fellow
students as well as teachers/parents.

~~~
moultano
At my highschool the valedictorian speech had to be approved by the principal
in advance. I wonder if he ever would have let something like this by.

~~~
mseebach
[http://dailyfreeman.com/articles/2010/07/27/news/doc4c4e6e19...](http://dailyfreeman.com/articles/2010/07/27/news/doc4c4e6e1988751898874838.txt)

~~~
AndyKelley
Nice find! I admire that girl's courage.

------
ars
There's a lot of selection bias here - the majority (all?) of the readers of
this site are far more intelligent than the majority.

So all (most? many?) of us will probably agree with her (at least as regarding
our own schooling).

I know I do.

But the trouble, the reality, is that most students can't do what she
suggests, using our minds for creativity, and not rote work. There really is a
difference in intelligence, and the sad truth is that for most students school
is exactly right.

The good news is that the really intelligent rise above it and succeed anyway.
The lost ones are those that are just a bit more intelligent than the rest,
but not quite enough to succeed on their own.

~~~
jacoblyles
It's almost like one-size-fits-all is a bad idea.

On that thought, I wonder why we get so much choice in so many services that
we buy but so little in something that matters as much as education?

~~~
Empact
There's an active "school choice" movement, and they're working for policies
which enable choice: e.g. charter schools, voucher programs, and choice open
enrollment for public schools, as they do in Seattle.

Cynically, the reason choice is restricted is it's easier to do a bad job and
get away with it when you have no competitors to be compared against. Because
the public schools get substantial funding from the government, an
entrepreneur generally can't compete on equal footing unless they have similar
funding of some sort as well. Hence vouchers & charter schools as a mechanism
for choice.

------
vimalg2
This speech shook me rudely awake , reminded me of my post-college long-term
life goal(one that makes a contribution to human wealth). My goal is to build
a excellent institution of learning, to train the dreamers and doers of
tomorrow(not mutually exclusive). This place would rival the IITs in depth of
knowledge imparted but would strive to create more well-rounded individuals
who would be masters of their own destiny. I feel sad when the cream of
India's IITs today prefer to chase that money-minting Investment Banking
career or accumulate advanced degrees state-side for a career in academia. I'm
not sure if this indicates a problem with their admissions filter. (IIT =
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology>)

In India, Education is a capital-intensive , profit-maximizing beast of an
industry. The admissions racket is huge. Parents often have to 'donate' (fork
out) insane amounts of cash (by Indian income standards) to 'reserve' a seat
in an Engineering/medical school. (except the IITs and govt-colleges, BTW)

Breaking into the market requires a large windfall and the ability to invest
it wisely in order to build the foundation of such an institution. I'm
thinking tech startup route naturally, since that is the only thing that comes
to mind w.r.t immediate skill scope.

I suffered no end of anguish when trapped in the rote-learning institutions
i'd been shuffled through. At the very least, I dream of hacking it slightly
for the better, for my unborn children's generation's sake.

Does anyone in America have the same thought, or are your institutions of
higher-learning pretty much satisfactory? This article refers to High-school
and onwards, while my focus is slightly narrower : the undergraduate
'professional' education in developing countries; It changes whole families'
economic statuses due to the current nature of the global market. We need more
startups in India just like the US does.

~~~
moultano
>Does anyone in America have the same thought, or are your institutions of
higher-learning pretty much satisfactory?

Frankly, I think our colleges are pretty much great. We have enough supply
that pretty much everyone can go, and the public universities are cheap enough
that most can afford it with financial aid and a night job if necessary.

The education varies, but you don't often hear people say when they leave
college that they were prevented from learning. Even mediocre schools often
have an honors program that gets much better results.

~~~
aik
The fact that a majority of students enter college having absolutely no idea
why they are there beyond the fact that that's what they're supposed to do, is
a fairly clear sign that things are very broken. The other day a father got
tears in his eyes when I asked him about his daughter who just went off to
college. She was clueless. Unrelated to his tears, he was spending 40k/year on
her mindlessly and passively attending random classes. How insane is that? I
don't care if you can get financial aid, I don't understand how one could
claim that's a good investment.

I was in the group feeling 'dumber' (in a way) after college. I wouldn't say I
was prevented from learning [random stuff], but I definitely wouldn't
attribute my schooling for assisting me in becoming a better and more capable
person.

~~~
moultano
>She was clueless. Unrelated to his tears, he was spending 40k/year on her
mindlessly and passively attending random classes. How insane is that?

Very insane and totally unnecessary. She could have gone to her state
university for 8-9k if she wasn't confident what she was going to get out of
it.

~~~
aik
Exactly. And why stop at 8-9k at a state university? She would be equally
clueless and most likely surrounded by even greater confusion.

This is the state of most people entering college in the United States. A
person should not consider college unless they have some focus or
understanding of why they are there. With focus, so much more will be achieved
with what's given to them.

How do you gain focus? First and foremost life experience. Secondly, applied
knowledge in areas that interests you or attracts your attention. This
knowledge can be learned at school, though it's a terribly ineffective way of
doing so.

~~~
moultano
In theory I agree with you, but in practice I don't.

For most of the people I've seen delay college, they only life experience they
gain in the meantime is in waiting tables. (Which they usually already had
from jobs in highschool anyways.) The only positive effect I've seen is that
people realize they don't want to work a shit job for the rest of their lives,
and get some motivation for education. On the margin this is definitely a win
when it happens, but I've never seen the sort of identity discovery you're
describing actually occur.

~~~
aik
I completely agree. This is exactly the area I'm interested in.

There needs to exist something in between high school and college. In other
countries especially, a lot of people take a "gap-year" and travel and work
elsewhere in the world. That's one option.

Some other possibilities are (I'm curious to hear what others think of these):

\- Find a business/company that would hire you as an intern. Low pay is OK -
the experience is what counts. It's OK if you don't know what industry to
start in, doing any decently attractive job to you brings you one step closer
to figuring it out. (We need to encourage adults/businesses to take in young
adults and provide them with experience in different areas, basic mentoring
and training).

\- Attend some sort of career/passion finding school where the entire focus is
on you and your development into a thinking being (this wouldn't be needed if
public schools did a better job). I'm curious if places like this exist and
how effective they are.

\- Take a gap year or two and travel and work remotely in various places.
Learn about the world and what exists in it. This will almost surely develop
character faster than waiting tables in your hometown.

\- Go to a community college or take random classes at any university that
interest you until you develop some interest somewhere.

As you pointed out, a key factor in motivating someone to follow any logical
path is for a person to understand that the paths exist and are as possible as
any other, and perhaps even more lucrative. It should all be part of the
initial education.

~~~
ramchip
Unrelated to your suggestions, Quebec has a school (CEGEP) between high school
and university. I think it's a good idea to give kids some time to think about
their choice, and since they have to choose their general orientation
(science, etc.) it's a good test of their choice. Many people change program
at this point.

------
sykora
I am sincerely sorry to say that she ain't seen nothing yet.

Take a look at countries like India or China where the test is a way of life.
Not only do all educational institutions - schools, universities or otherwise
- produce robots off an assembly line, such robotic behavior is praised and
rewarded by the society.

~~~
__bjoernd
I once gave a seminar at a Chinese university and these guys scared the creep
out of me. They focussed me for hours without ever moving a limb.

Anyway, we should not blame the original valedictorian for her limited views.
Experience comes with time and still she's right about the things she says.

~~~
sykora
Her views aren't limited, per se. She's realized there's a problem. That's
good. It's just that the situation is probably much worse than she can
imagine.

------
DennisP
Someone mentioned Montessori schools, which seem to do pretty well. Another
along similar lines, but more extreme, is Sudbury Valley schools:
<http://www.sudval.org/>

Kids are taught whatever they ask to be taught. They aren't divided into
classes, they can just wander around the campus asking for help from any
teacher they like. If you start kids young in this environment it works really
well; kids are hard-wired to learn as much as possible if you don't make it a
miserable experience.

Something else they do: every kid gets a vote in school decisions. A kid's
vote counts as much as a teacher's. It's like they're teaching kids to be
citizens in a democracy, instead of subjects in a dictatorship.

I once read that (iirc) New Zealand used to have horrible public schools, and
fixed it with this system:

\- Every parent can send their kids to whatever school they wish.

\- Each school is directed entirely by the parents, with no interference from
government bureaucracy.

\- Each school gets $X per enrolled student.

It took about ten years to shake out, then they had great schools.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>\- Every parent can send their kids to whatever school they wish.

This is an impossible system to work if you don't have unlimited funds for
education. Parents want to send their kids to "the good school" getting the
better grades, with better facilities or whatever. Not all parents in an area
can do this, there isn't enough room. As the good school gets fuller, it takes
more of the cream and the other schools suffer. But this school is leaching
the money away from other schools too as the richer parents that help to
contribute time and resources and money move to the "good school". Ultimately
the other schools aren't getting the pupils they need to run properly and
suffer incredibly. The one school gets better the others worse.

>\- Each school is directed entirely by the parents, with no interference from
government bureaucracy.

There are many areas of running a school that can be made more efficient by
using local government departments. Paying employees, insurance, grounds-
keeping, building maintenance, healthcare provisions, utility purchasing,
school meal provision, etc., can all be run more efficiently with a local
grouping of schools rather than individual schools fighting it out for
themselves. Do you know who is good at administrating such groups? Local
government.

Indeed things like creating syllabuses and setting exams can too be
streamlined by cooperation across schools.

>\- Each school gets $X per enrolled student.

I'm assuming here that you're not allowing x to vary from school to school.
What about areas with high levels of non-native language speakers that need
translators and extra helpers. Or that by some quirk have large numbers of
disabled students that require special care and equipment. Or those in rural
areas that pay a lot more for bus travel than inner-city schools. Do these
schools have to restrict the care and opportunity they give to pupils because
of costs that are out of their control?

~~~
DennisP
Except, apparently, it did work. (I wish I still had a citation.) Yes, I
expect bad schools suffered. In fact, I expect the bad schools went out of
business entirely as people abandoned them in droves. This leaves a market
opportunity for private schools to spring up and get that tuition money.

I wasn't really referring to things like building maintenance, just
instruction methods, curricula, stuff like that. Those are the things that I
think should not be streamlined and standardized, for the very reasons
described by our distinguished valedictorian.

You raise good points about varying $X but I would keep it constant anyway,
because although in an ideal world we should vary $X according to the factors
you mention, in the real world it would vary according to the political pull
of the people living in different areas.

------
fendrak
I think this is something many high school seniors realize at some point or
another: had we known how easy it really was to game the system, we might have
started playing the game earlier and earned more points. We aren't rewarded
for interests, or how we approach things, or even for helping our fellow
students; we're rewarded for scoring as many points as we can to the detriment
of all other things.

~~~
kd0amg
Or you recognize that the game is contrary to your learning-related goals,
figure out how many points you need to get what you're after, and then return
your focus to learning. What would I have gained with another half point on my
GPA or by moving my class rank into the top tenth? Probably not much, but it
would have meant a lot more time and attention spent on work I didn't find
interesting.

~~~
cynest
Also, for some strange reason, work you do that is interesting prepares you a
hell of a lot more for your intended major in college.

------
tommynazareth
It is extremely validating to hear this coming from the lips of a
valedictorian. I've always defended my disinterest in school by asserting that
I'm way too smart for school. I struggled for my entire academic career
because I naively believed that the point of school was to learn, when really,
the point of school is to follow directions.

Now, when I tell people that I have no interest in college, they could dismiss
my disinterest as a defense mechanism. I know that most people will never
understand what I'm talking about when I claim that mass education is a tool
for creating workers, but at least some intelligent people will read this
brilliant speech and know what I am talking about.

I don't care anymore about arguing with the world, I just want to care for
myself and my family, but I am glad this woman got a chance expose some truth
to her class. I feel for her confusion and fear about missing out on self-
discovery for many years of her life, but it is pretty clear that she is on
the right path now and I can't wait to see what she goes on to accomplish in
the future.

------
praptak
_To illustrate this idea, doesn't it perturb you to learn about the idea of
"critical thinking." Is there really such a thing as "uncritically thinking?"_

Reading Edward de Bono has got me convinced that there are several modes of
thinking and critical thinking is just one of them. Critical thinking as I
understand it means looking for flaws, downsides, logic errors in ideas. It is
necessary but it cannot be the only thing that you do - you need to come up
with the ideas first.

------
tommynazareth
Erica,

I want to thank you for your beautiful articulation of the sad truth that
makes mass education painful for so many people.

Unfortunately, school very effectively destroys people's ability to act on the
reality you tried show to your classmates and community, but I am appreciative
nonetheless because it is better to give the truth a voice, even if it falls
on deaf ears. You exposed yourself and embraced vulnerability, and that is the
most powerful thing a human being can do.

If you have any pedagogical theories, please share them with the world. I am
all ears.

Thank you.

------
noonespecial
_I have no interests because I saw every subject of study as work, and I
excelled at every subject just for the purpose of excelling, not learning. And
quite frankly, now I'm scared._

A mind that thinks this has nothing to fear.

~~~
aik
Explain? She learned how to work the system, not follow any passion of hers.
Sure that's definitely a skill and a valuable one, though how much better
would it be if it was better focused at something worth something a bit more?

~~~
noonespecial
It shows a level of meta-cognition not normally found in the "valedictorian"
types. The fact that she recognized what had happened and that she should be
afraid is the reason she should not be.

She's realized that there's _more_. The battle is nearly won with that. Just
realizing that "the matrix has you" is the most important step.

~~~
aik
Definitely. Good point. I agree, the fact that she says she's scared (and if
she means it) is proof that she will "cure" herself someday. Good luck to her.

------
tmsh
Ah yes, I find myself wondering: how to explain to younglings that even more
important than the realization that one needn't conform to the status quo (and
indeed one might reject one's entire frame of reference) is that the truth --
rejecting only those things you can honestly, authoritatively reject -- is a
much more sustainable approach, even though it takes longer and appears
harder. But, within one's expanding limits, hard things are efficient. They're
dense. You solve hard things, and then you can easily solve easy things.

If the idea is to maximize innovation and happiness in the world -- it's a
little bit trickier than everyone should start rejecting things too cavalierly
and promoting their own innovative ability to quote H.L. Mencken.

But that's not to knock the speech at all. I think it's a great part of the
conversation about what really _is_ the best way to prepare high school
students? And how do we get there? Identification of a large problem is key. A
key prick of conscience at the beginning of many large solution spaces.

But if I were to say one thing it would be:

    
    
      Be as truthful as you can.
    
    

ETA. I really shouldn't joke about 'younglings'. Although there is an argument
to be made about appreciating the benefits of any situation (even misguided
high schools have enviable qualities and resources, in a certain light). But
it's really bad these days. Getting into college is 2-3x as hard as it was a
decade ago, just on admissions rates (let alone how that factors into other
qualities and explodes exponentially into other headaches). And economic hard
times exacerbate things dramatically. In that sense, this speech is
increasingly pertinent. It's important to jolt people into a much more focused
approach to high school education. But also, in a certain light, I guess what
I'm saying is that challenges are what you make of them. It's easy to make
speeches as you're leaving. Even if the speeches end on the idea of coming
back some day.

But the key thing is to solve actual problems.

~~~
moultano
One thing I'm always struck by whenever this comes up is how much people
underestimate our collective capacity for indolence. As much as I hated
uninspired busywork in highschool, and did as little of it as possible, what
did I do with the rest of my time? I sunk 70 hours into Final Fantasy VII.

Sure, maybe I would have been more productive if I hadn't spent 6 hours every
day waiting my way through the day, but I don't really think so.

Most people do have an equilibrium level joy of learning that they discover
when left to their own devices, but I don't think most schools stifle this. On
the contrary, school just forces you to do more learning than most people
naturally would, and feels like an imposition as a result.

I'd certainly have enjoyed being left to explore at my own pace, but frankly,
I wouldn't know nearly as much.

------
malkia
I had exactly the opposite experience. Graduated from Mathematics/Informatics
specialized High School, second worst in class - way off below the average
grade. Yet I got for free in the University, because was 9th at the national
computer science (informatics) olympiad, and this gave me an automatic "A"
(still the high-school diploma was taken, so it was a bit of a risk).

Anyhow - I hated school :) and too bad never finished university (too much
parties).

~~~
diziet
New York city?

~~~
WingForward
I'm guessing not even the US.

You don't go to a specialized HS (Hunter, Stuy, Bronx Sci) in NYC and graduate
low in your class and get a scholarship.

You're lucky to get into a school. MIT isn't looking for 12 people from the
same HS, even if they're all geniuses...they want diversity.

~~~
malkia
The score system is different in Bulgaria. There was nothing like N% of the
students get A. In fact - the class I've been in, graduated with 5.50 (6 is
the max in Bulgaria), the other class graduated (averaged) with something like
5.75. I graduated with something like 4.40, and the other guy was 4.20, the
next worst after me was 5.20 I think. About 30 people in the class.

I basically skipped a lot from the school, but because I was in the computer
science (informatics) team, I've got A's (6) on certain subjects, because the
teachers decided not to care. Other decided that I should be present more and
I've got 3 or 4 - like C or D here in US.

------
_mattb
It's hard to speak to another's educational experience (I know I've been
really fortunate) but is it really as apocalyptic as some of those paragraphs
suggest?

"Conditioned to blurt out facts" -- "this period of indoctrination" -- "an
educational system that clandestinely sets us up for jobs that could be
automated, for work that need not be done, for enslavement without fervency
for meaningful achievement"

Nuance is important in arguments and creating pathways for dialog even moreso.
But maybe that's not the goal of an 'inspirational' graduation speech..
Despite the last paragraph.

~~~
jff
Surely you, too, were once in high school--are not all of those phrases you
quoted the exact sort of thing you would have said at that point? I was like
that too, occasionally, and oooh did I feel like a clever fellow for thinking
such radical thoughts.

------
stretchwithme
policy makers often look at side effects of success and, not understanding how
success is achieved, seek to make the side effects more likely.

They see successful economies spend lavish sums on housing, so to have a
successful economy, subsidize housing.

Intelligent people do well on tests, so raising test scores will produce
intelligent people. Never mind that the obsession with test taking make it
even a more mind numbing experience.

Are people truly better innovators after going through such a process? We need
to study exactly this question. Actually, I would not be surprised if
alternatives like the Montessori method have already been proven superior.

------
jgg
It seems like we might be heading into an era where questioning the methods of
traditional Western education will become commonplace. This is exciting, as it
cracks open the paradigm for smart people to analyze and modify. If we let
some of the top creative, scientific minds spill their guts about schooling in
a public forum, who knows what could happen?

What I worry about, however, are the fools who will use specific criticism of
our _implementation_ of education to fight education in the general sense.
Every time I read one of these articles, there are inevitably dozens of
comments by idiots who don't have any specific criticism of the system at
hand, but would rather rail against the idea that learning is important. In
fact, conflating the "Platonic ideal" of education with the American school
system is exactly the kind of confusion that prevents anyone from making any
progress in the first place.

------
nprincigalli
This reminds me of The Onion's "High-School Senior Marvels At What A Long,
Strange Trip It's Been" [http://www.theonion.com/articles/highschool-senior-
marvels-a...](http://www.theonion.com/articles/highschool-senior-marvels-at-
what-a-long-strange-t,317/)

~~~
splat
Which, in turn, reminds me of "6-Year-Old Stares Down Bottomless Abyss Of
Formal Schooling" [http://www.theonion.com/articles/6yearold-stares-down-
bottom...](http://www.theonion.com/articles/6yearold-stares-down-bottomless-
abyss-of-formal-sc,2510/)

------
moron4hire
The truly mind expanding experiences I've had in my life have come from
meeting new people, engaging them in conversation, and trying to learn how to
get along. Meeting people who were interesting before they ever went to
college, or were interesting despite never having gone.

"Well, you meet people in college!" You'd get a better experience starting a
rock band, joining a community service group (or hell, joining the military,
it's a similar time commitment and _they pay you_ ), all activities
essentially free compared to college. If anything, the system of
accreditation, the politics of the teacher-student relationship, and the
financial concerns of meeting even the most modest tuition rates are nothing
but impediments to "expanding ones mind".

------
api
But without continuously increasing GDP we will have deflation and will not
meet our national goal of... hey wait a minute... don't our national goals
look a lot like standardized tests?

Maybe we were invaded by aliens a long time ago, and this is our prison.

------
agentultra
I think she has come to the same conclusions many teenagers have come to
before her. Although perhaps she frames them a little more elegantly. Most
teenagers just have the instinctive realization that, "school sucks."

Grading is a system that can be gamed. However, it's not a system that doesn't
encourage you to learn anything. I'd say you are rather clever if you can get
good grades but not very smart if you didn't learn anything along the way. In
one of her criticism she claims _"I excelled at every subject just for the
purpose of excelling, not learning. And quite frankly, now I'm scared."_ She
should be scared. Scared that she made a mistake to not learn anything.

But of course I don't believe that to be true. She did learn something even if
she is spiteful of the methods by which she came across the knowledge. I also
do not believe that the system is perfect either and it is good that she
recognizes this. However I think she, like the vast majority of people charged
with writing a speech for an audience, got hold of a single idea and stretched
it beyond its logical limits.

Is the system perfect? No. By any rote definition of perfection any system
wrought of the mind of a human cannot be perfect. Could it be better?
Certainly. Though I think you will have a tough time educating people by
removing the goal of excellence.

------
_politicalist
People might be interested in Chomsky's overview of the educational system, as
one where even stupidity has a role -- if there's a lot of stupidity in the
system, then the people who'll succeed are obedient people (including him)
willing to follow the orders of someone who "couldn't think his way out of a
paper bag", to get to the next rung. The rest are filtered out.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq6lFOhLJ0c>

------
kenjackson
The problem I have with her speech is that it is speaking in wishful grand
platitudes, as most V/S-torian speeches do. I know several public school
teachers and most have as their primary goal teaching students how to learn
and to love learning. It's not like they want to create drones.

But here is where the problems begin. How do you teach a 9th grader how to
learn to think about math problems? When I first saw my first geometric proof
I thought, "Big deal. Why do I need to learn the proof to something everyone
knows is true?" It seemed pedantic to me. But it probably deal a great deal
for teaching me how to think analytically. But as a 13 year old, given the
choice, I think I'd argue that studying NWA lyrics are far more useful and
enlightening.

Again, 9th grade is when a lot of my friends dropped out. Not so they could go
grap a copy of Apostle, because the current math curriculum wasn't challenging
enough. But because sex, Nintendo, beer, and drugs are a lot more fun than
just about anything you can teach in class.

And here's the other problem I have with her speech. No one has been able to
construct such an environment, even on the smallest of scales. No charter
school, no private school, no home school that I've ever seen.

I think her speech is more wishful thinking than anything else. As a child I
used to wish that medical science was wrong. Eating chocolate, pizza, soda,
and ice cream were actually really good for you. I theorized that they had
overlooked some key facts in body chemistry. But my wishful thinking didn't
change the fact that some things are the way they are... and maybe even for
good reason.

------
chrischen
I never let schooling get in the way of my education, but I'm pretty sure
that's at least partially responsible for me getting rejected from all the
colleges I even remotely wanted to attend. So I can't say the system is really
in place to support people who do their own thing. It's not a realistic option
for most people to start deviating from schooling. I mean you've got to be
really above average to be able to quit or marginalize school and still
succeed in our institutionalized world. You'd basically have to start from
scratch (or at least start much lower than if you subjected yourself to the
education system).

The dilemma here is that some students when left alone can thrive without
having a safety net education regiment, while some may just play games all day
and waste away. And perhaps some may get too specialized and lack other basic
skills a standardized education would guarantee. I think if there is going to
be change, we have to start looking into whether or not those things are true.
Lots of kids are home schooled right? The data should be there.

If kids have to learn how to drive then they should do the driving, and school
should just provide the vehicle. Can't learn to drive while sitting in a bus
(but it's more economical).

~~~
izendejas
I went to a very competitive public school. They looked at more than just my
grades. I'm sorry that you got rejected, but quite frankly, if you didn't get
good grades, it's hard for a school to vouch for you mastering basic skills
you'll need at the next level. If however, those grades are a reflection of
one of many problems of obstacles you may have faced, then that's where your
personal statement comes in. If you decided to do your own thing, then as
someone reading applications, I'd rather give your spot to someone else and
wish you well in that sense.

Whether you decide to go to college or drop out is a decision I hope everyone
can live with either way. At the end of the day, yes, find what you love and
do what you love. Schooling is a great, great way to learn how to do many
things, meet many great people, etc. It's not the only path, but it's an
easier path for most people because you have the threads of people who came
before you and would know how to guide you--assuming you're on the lookout.

------
__bjoernd
I remember Paul Graham writing sth. similar in one of his essays on education
-- that school is basically only for adults to conduct their daily work while
the kids are being watched and that it teaches you values you won't need in
later life.

Furthermore, coming from a German schooling background, I think it's much the
same over here.

------
Ras_
Testing, ranking and inspecting have become all too pervasive?

In Finland national testing, school ranking lists and inspection systems do
not exist. Unfortunately behind this facade it still manages to focus quite
heavily on rote memorization.

<http://www.oph.fi/english/education>

------
vimalg2
In other words, the system is tailored for good 'students', not great
learners.

Autodidacts are viewed as social misfits who do not like working with others.
I can attest that this generalization is not true as far as I am concerned.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidact>

------
potency
original link: <http://www.sott.net/articles/show/212383-V...aduation-Speech>

------
efalcao
Am I the only one detecting a "frowning on education" theme on hacker news
lately?

I don't necessarily disagree, but it seems like there has been an article a
day about "should i go to college", "the diminishing value of a degree", etc.

Is something that the country is focusing on right now or is it hacker news
specific?

~~~
seiji
As Sir Ken says, education is one of the most personal experiences people
have. If you ask someone about their education you suddenly get their full
attention as they travel back in time to recount the good old days.

The anti-education slant largely comes about from people trying to prove
themselves or justify their personal circumstances. Their words: "Well, _I_
didn't go to college and I'm doing fine." Their meaning: "You must be not as
good as me if you didn't do what _I_ did." Their feelings: "All these other
people had opportunities, support, and they just went along with it. Their
lives were handed to them. I know I'm better, or at least just as good, as
them even though I didn't go to a fancy school. I'm going to prove it by
telling everybody how school is worthless."

In short, you are what you did. The anti-schoolers forget school also includes
social grooming, transition periods, and growing up. The schoolers forget not
going to school has different ways of social grooming, helping with
transitions, and growing up.

------
arvinjoar
I think some of you might enjoy the "School Sucks Podcast" about compulsory
schooling and its effects. <http://schoolsucks.podomatic.com/>

------
InfinityX0
Did she really end a high school speech with the term "pedagogic movement"?
Sounds like a "Curse of Knowledge" overdose to me.

<http://37signals.com/svn/posts/213-the-curse-of-knowledge>

------
speleding
One common remark on HN seems to be that high school is not
challenging/interesting. One way to fix that would be to put pupils into
different schools according to their ability. Several European countries do it
that way, usually around age 12.

~~~
rick_2047
I have a huge problem with that. It sickens me to think of categorising
children/pupils (and even human beings for that matter) on any basis. There
are many objections that I have against it, but the most pressing is "This
will lead to no interdisciplinary or inter-school-of-thought discussions."

We need to understand how we categorize students. The fist thing that comes in
anybodies mind is ability. But how do you measure ability? Everyone has a
particular area of work she/he is good at. Then how will you measure their
ability. I may am not be good with spellings, but may be I can write better
prose. He may not be able to master the subjects of Mechanical Engineering but
my god can he modify a car.

If you put children in different schools based on there ability in different
fields, then that would need to field stagnations. Sometimes a short story
would inspire a few innovations in neuroscience. We need to have discussions
between people from different fields.

Also if you make another standardized test to test pupils abilities would that
not have the same result. They would be just as bored, but with better people
around them. Who is to ensure that they would not be bored by what they are
taught.

Also such a process would lead to elitism, similar to what we have in the
current academia. If you are not from your countries best college, then you
would have a bloody hard time to get research grants and such.

------
apinstein
That's a pretty enlightened speech for a high school grad, awesome!

Take home lesson: "What gets measured gets managed - even when it's pointless
to measure and manage it, and even if it harms the purpose of the organisation
to do so."

------
dingy
If I was head of the Coxsackie-Athens High School, I'd be damn proud. You've
taught your students well if they end up concluding you've been doing it wrong
all the time.

------
smiler
To write such an eloquent and thought provoking piece as this, her education
must have taught her something more than just memorisation and facts.

~~~
dschobel
As her brain does not cease to function when she leaves school grounds, there
is no reason to believe she did not gain her perspicacity elsewhere.

------
kadavy
Here it is on video! <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4tdMsg3ts>

------
jdlegg
As Mark Twain said: "Education is the path from cocky ignorance to miserable
uncertainty."

------
holdenc
Parts of this speech imply the valedictorian was somehow misled into working
hard and graduating at the top.

Well, I don't like speeches about the evils of money given by rich people, nor
do I like speeches about the broken education system given by valedictorians.

------
DrillBitterMan
I got goose bumps!

------
itistoday
Wonderful speech, but a bit of a misleading title on the article as she's not
speaking out against schooling, but against a specific kind of schooling
that's common throughout the United States (and elsewhere):

 _H. L. Mencken wrote in The American Mercury for April 1924 that the aim of
public education is not "to fill the young of the species with knowledge and
awaken their intelligence. ... Nothing could be further from the truth. The
aim ... is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe
level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and
originality. That is its aim in the United States."_

 _[.. snip ..]_

 _For those of you that work within the system that I am condemning, I do not
mean to insult; I intend to motivate. You have the power to change the
incompetencies of this system. I know that you did not become a teacher or
administrator to see your students bored. You cannot accept the authority of
the governing bodies that tell you what to teach, how to teach it, and that
you will be punished if you do not comply. Our potential is at stake._

 _For those of you that are now leaving this establishment, I say, do not
forget what went on in these classrooms. Do not abandon those that come after
you. We are the new future and we are not going to let tradition stand. We
will break down the walls of corruption to let a garden of knowledge grow
throughout America. Once educated properly, we will have the power to do
anything, and best of all, we will only use that power for good, for we will
be cultivated and wise. We will not accept anything at face value. We will ask
questions, and we will demand truth._

~~~
nerfhammer
While intriguing to think about, this teleological viewpoint which she repeats
a few times is a little silly. There isn't really a shadowy cabal of
plutocrats secreted away in a subterranean headquarters inside of a volcano,
planning all of this.

It's likely instead a series of unplanned, undirected side-effects from other
things. Standardization could side-effect of trying to mass-produce education,
which is a side effect of the increasing size and complexity of society.
Educational institutions last for generations and stick to what they know
because they don't know what else to do. It's very difficult to get feedback
or to infer causal relationships or have anything resembling an experimental
control over a 20 year education process and literally a lifetime. No one is
directing all of this from a secret mountain lair while cackling malevolently
and stroking a trained leopard.

~~~
sprout
If there's anything that's clear, it's that no one is masterminding the design
of the US Education system.

------
tkahn6
It must have been very painful for her to continue on her path to being
valedictorian after she came to this conclusion.

------
Ardit20
It is ironic that she is condemning an institution which made it possible for
her to write so well and be able to think so originally and creatively.

Perhaps she has forgotten, or is unaware, that without the schooling she
received, without the need to complete those assignments, or prepare for those
tests, she would hardly have been so motivated for the future and full of
passion because whatever she might say, she knows very well that the education
she has received has given her so much and will allow her so many more
opportunities.

She does however forget to mention how her visionary education could be? What
do we do, not teach kids maths? not teach them the thermodynamic laws which
personally I have forgotten but have a vague recollection of them, not teach
students of biology, history, geography? Does she suppose that a seven year
old, ten, 12, 14, 16, year old can so freely be creative without knowing
anything whatever of the facts. Should such student be allowed to imagine what
our history was, or how our biology works so that he can be "creative". Does
she actually know what to be creative is?

Whatever might be wrong with out educational system, unfortunately some things
are basic and simply must be learned. We simply need to teach our kids to
read, to do maths, physics, biology, history, art, music, sport, literature.
Not simply let them imagine how it could be but yes make them memorise the
facts, make them learn the fact. You might forget them the next month, but in
the long run you learn the basics of each of these fields. You learn you have
a heart and other organs and an immune system and the basic of history, lit,
etc.

It is fine to simply shout foul, and for the top in the class that is their
past hobby, impatient with themselves, believing themselves to be leaders when
they so immature still, but we have been teaching for more than two millennia.
You can not simply discredit all this experience with some rhetoric.

As for the creative part, that happens in university. If you did not learn the
basics that are taught in primary school, and then on advance, you hardly
would be able to independently arrive at this stage of creativity in a
meaningful way, that is to gather the facts, learn them, understand them,
understand how they relate, synthesise them together, and come up with
suggestions as to how things can be improved.

But by all means throw stones as long as your house is not made of glass.

~~~
brlewis
"We have been teaching for two millenia" is no way to defend an educational
system that developed during the industrial age. The Montessori method was
published in 1912, and experience has shown its effectiveness. It is our
current public education system, not its critics, that ignores experience.

The nearest public Montessori school to me has a waiting list larger than its
student body. As a result, I'm sending my kids to private school and making
lots of sacrifices to do it.

I don't want to say about my kids, "As for the creative part, that happens in
university."

~~~
jff
It wasn't the Montessori system that put men on the moon. I'm pretty sure it
was bright young men sitting in high school math classes, learning to use
their slide rules and practicing integration until they got it perfect, then
going on to engineering school where they learned even more complex
mathematics and physics. Have you ever looked at a math or physics book from
the 50s? They lack the full-color illustrations, story problems, and "extra
activities" of a modern high school text, yet somehow generations of
mathematicians, physicists, and engineers mastered the techniques.

~~~
brlewis
Speculate about the moon landing all you want, but a lot of successful people,
Google founders included, credit Montessori education as helpful to their
success.

------
Mrcurious
In other news, the sky is blue.

Srsly... Valedictory speeches are suddenly no longer about embracing our
individualistic spirit anymore? Thank you for the link bait.

~~~
invisible
I really hate downvoting, but if you consider this link bait I do not know
what you consider good content. The author/graduate is very articulate about
not supporting the current systems set in place for schools. I wholeheartedly
agree with most of the speech and I think it is something that more students
across the US should hear in some form. We are led to believe school is the
chosen path to achieving everything in life when 90% of what school represents
is memorization and homework.

