
The Socially Awkward Founder - mstump
http://www.matthewstump.com/misc/2012/05/01/the-socially-awkward-founder/
======
Mz
My two sons are ASD -- aka extremely socially awkward, especially my oldest.
It is their good fortune that I happen to be unusually socially observant and,
at times, reasonably smooth (when my health issues aren't fostering research
for a future book called "How to win enemies and alienate people"). Some
things that helped:

Addressing underlying health issues.

Shadowing -- i.e. watching me do stuff first, learning by example.

Apprenticing -- an extension of shadowing where they took over pieces of the
process as they became comfortable with them and I filled in any gaps until
they had the whole thing down pat.

I also started an email list at one time tailored to an interest my oldest son
had. With the assurance that mom had his back because I was the moderator, he
bloomed and rapidly became the life of the party. He finally got to share with
other people the sparkle I had long known and adored. Having experienced it
once, he became capable of sometimes turning on the charm for the crowd. Most
people still are not privy to it but it is because most of the time he just
doesn't care.

Best of luck to everyone struggling with this.

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delinka
Nodding gets me into trouble. It's made me a "good listener" to quote many
people from my personal history. I start nodding, people keep talking. It
takes an external interruption to get me out of the situation. And that's
where I feel I'm 'socially awkward.' I get along with people just fine, but I
find getting out of undesirable situations to be a Hard Problem.

Empathy. This is the root of the problem. I'm an American male with empathy.
That's not a complaint, but an important observation of critical self-
analysis.

~~~
farnsworth
I know the feeling, sometimes it's ok to interrupt people. You just need to
practice the 'conclusive' tone of voice and say something appropriate, e.g.
"Well, I guess that's just the way it is" ... pause ... "Good talking to you!"

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navs
Thank you for this. I partly own and run a website dedicated to New Zealand
Modeling and Fashion. We have high hopes of turning it into something more
which is where I come in as a developer. Unfortunately, as part owner, I have
to attend meetings made up of photographers, models and the general hipster
crowd. How utterly painful for me. I haven't found a way around my social
ineptitude and am open to suggestions that especially fit my situation. At
present my technique involves drinking a few beers before attempting to start
any conversation.

~~~
follower
What's the website? I'm a Kiwi and always interested to know what other people
are doing here. :)

In terms of improving meeting with "photographers, models and the general
hipster crowd", does it help any if you think of them as "people"..?

What do you define as "utterly painful" and "social ineptitude" in your case?

What do you say to yourself as you enter these sorts of situations? Is it
"Wow, I suck" or "Wow, I'm awesome and have something that's really of value
to these people, I should find out what they're looking for and demonstrate
how I can help them"?

I know the whole self-talk thing seems bogus but I think it does have an
impact.

~~~
navs
The site is <http://model.net.nz/>

Well I acknowledge they are certainly people :) I've suffered through a few
years of depression which include being medicated. I suppose I'm just terrible
at initiating and continuing a conversation. Entering a conversation, I
typically feel insecure so this is leaning towards more of a "Wow, I suck".

I realize such thoughts are a terrible handicap in networking situations and
I'm working on improving that.

~~~
follower
> I realize such thoughts are a terrible handicap in networking situations and
> I'm working on improving that.

There is no magic bullet so that's actually a pretty good approach to
improving things. :) It just takes time...

It can seem fake to try to take the positive angle but it's important to try.
When you have the choice between choosing to think of yourself as awesome or
not, try to always choose the awesome option--even if you don't really believe
it...

Also, if someone ever tries to compliment you on something, make sure you
don't try to deflect it--just say "Thank you" with a smile.

Yeah, it all sounds a bit wanky but I've found it helpful for me. :)

(Also, check out Bar Camp Auckland <http://twitter.com/#!/barcampauckland> if
you've not been before--there's some good peeps involved.)

Good luck!

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wtvanhest
I'm not sure if I read this somewhere or if someone told me about this, but I
think your system is a good beginning but could be improved by adding a few
steps.

I use this formula when I am tired, but still need to network, and it works
exceptionally well.

1) Start with exactly what you said, asking questions about the person. When
you find something they are interested in, move to step 2.++

2) Tell a brief story. Make sure it has a beginning, middle and an end.+

3) Introduce them to someone else, and tell the new person about the old
person’s interests to get them involved in the conversation.

The toughest part is step 2 and requires practice, you might as well start
now. Every time you are out, practice by telling stories. The shorter the
better and always have a beginning, a middle and an end.

+As an escape, if you tell a crappy story and you can sense it, you can always
joke about how it was a crappy story. It isn’t perfect, but usually that will
buy you some respect/time.

++ If you ask the person too many questions about them without telling a story
you will notice they will start to back off. People who are socially strong
may not mind as they will understand you are nervous and will intentionally
give you a break, but this is not the norm.

[EDIT] It is important that the story you tell relates to what that person is
talking about.

~~~
farnsworth
I've always been terrible at story-telling, my friends have given me shit
about it. Then I have one friend who can take any normal every-day event and
basically turn it into an epic poem which is hilarious or fascinating or both.
Definitely a good skill to have.

~~~
wtvanhest
I read a pretty good book called Telling to Win. It really takes practice and
making sure you have a beginning. A middle and an end. Most people who are bad
story tellers don't have the end right.

------
gavanwoolery
Actually, I would say you should NOT try to develop people skills. If you are
a technical guy, your work will speak for you. By all means, be friendly to
anyone who talks to you, but don't go out of your way to improve your social
skills, because they are not your most valuable asset.

Being an introvert is not a bad thing.

I strongly recommend reading this:

<http://www.carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts>

(Particularly #10)

~~~
follower
[You were down in the grey, so I upvoted you, not because I necessarily agree
with you but because your comment is still contributing to HN--even if it
might be somewhat contrarian. :)]

While I agree that being an introvert is not a bad thing, I don't think it's
unreasonable for a person to _want_ to change some aspect of their approach to
life if they see a benefit in doing so.

I would caution against taking a pure "your work will speak for you" approach.
If I have the most amazing programming language/web framework/cold fusion
reactor sitting in my house but I tell no one then my work is _not_ going to
speak for me. It's just going to sit there generating cheap energy.

In order for your work to speak for you someone needs to be listening.

Social skills are a force multiplier: the more your work is promoted, to the
right people, the bigger impact it will have. Either you do the promotion
yourself or you meet someone who will do the promotion for you...

And this comes from an Introverted New Zealander so I know of what I speak. :)

As a final example:

Do you know one of my forms of passive income? I would say, probably not.

As an introvert I'd leave it at that.

But as an introvert who has learned people have to know something exists
before they can hear what it says...

You should totally listen to what The Bright Bunny has to say:

The Bright Bunny.

A little craft. A little electronics.

A whole lot of awwwwww! <3

(<http://thebrightbunny.com/>)

~~~
gavanwoolery
I agree, kind of - obviously you need to get the word out. This does not mean
you have to be an expert in social interaction though. Case study: in 2006, I
released a demo I had worked on (in isolation for 2 years!). Within the first
week, 600,000 hits, just by me posting a link, no social skills needed :)

------
cpfohl
Good post. Have you read Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence
People." Did wonders for me...

~~~
mstump
I haven't read it. I think as a geek, or maybe just as a male I have a hard
time buying what one would typically think of as a self help book. I don't
know why it just is some sort of block or form of denial. Even after being
upfront about what is or isn't easy for me I still have a hard time being seen
reading that book. I think that behavior is fairly common, It's ok to say "I'm
a nerd", but it's not OK to be seen working on fixing the problem. I guess
that's why more people don't talk about this issue. That being said I'm going
against my instinct and buying the book, thanks for the tip.

~~~
jpdoctor
> _buying what one would typically think of as a self help book._

Screw that. Carnegie's book is just like any other hacking book, except the OS
is humans, the API is social interactions. It's not a manual, and is more in
the vein of The Art of Hacking.

Seriously, worth reading.

~~~
mstump
Agree, I'm just being honest about my knee-jerk reaction. I'm not defending it
as logical.

~~~
farnsworth
I used to feel the same way. Then I read it. This is a self-help book from
before self-help books were a scam. Or maybe they still were, but in any case
it was a genuinely useful book and a really quick read too. I keep it around
and review a chunk now and then.

------
kijin
> _Just walk up, listen to the conversation, occasionally node..._

I was confused for a few seconds there, trying to conjure up an image of a
socially awkward founder desperately behaving like a node that belongs in a
network.

Typo aside, nodding is a godsend if you don't want to (or don't know how to)
participate actively in group talk but you also don't want to look like you're
indifferent. Just nod at appropriate moments. Nod if you agree. Nod even if
you disagree, it shows you're paying attention.

Heck, it's even OK to nod because you're falling asleep. People will want to
know what kind of fantastic thing you built last night that made you lose so
much sleep. (If not, it still gives you a perfect excuse to ditch the boring
group and go grab some coffee.)

------
follower
I have no idea how it appears to other people but my personal approach is to
not say my name or ask for names when I first meet a person.

Unless you have developed the skill to remember names, you're most likely
going to forget it in a second--and then you just have to ask for it again
later!

Instead, I prefer to have a great conversation with someone and _then_ ask
them for their name once I have something to which I can attach it.

I find this reduces the pressure/anxiety at the beginning of a conversation as
I can focus on what the person is saying instead of trying to memorise their
name.

Well, it's been great talking about succeeding in social situations as an
introvert. By the way, I'm Philip, what's your name..?

~~~
Mz
Michele. Pleased to meet you.

~~~
follower
Hi Michele, thanks for helping me out with this demonstration.

Do enjoy the rest of your Hacker Newsing today, I should probably go and do
some work. :)

------
zerostar07
_just keep them talking, they’ll eventually bring the conversation around to
something that is dear to them_

It's painful to pretend to show interest then. I can only talk about thinks i
am thoroughly interested in (and i talk _a lot_ then), or I can analyze a
minor detail or bring up lots of trivia (i know lots of them) to divert the
conversation. I don't exactly pass as a talker that way, but at least people
don't think i lack confidence.

~~~
mstump
I find something about that persons interest that I always wanted to know, and
ask about that. It can be tangentially related.

------
vibrunazo
> Start out easy. [..] Just stick out your hand, smile slightly, and say “Hi

Question: How do I get the courage to get that far?

~~~
mstump
To be honest, you need to just suck it up and try it, consequences be damned.
You're going to suck for a while, embrace it.

I think that's a difficulty for smart people, we're used to being good at
things easily and when we aren't we avoid them. It's OK to not be good at
something if you're just starting out. You will make mistakes, it's your job
to learn from them and get better.

~~~
follower
> "You're going to suck for a while, embrace it."

Yeah, that's a good thing to remember.

> I think that's a difficulty for smart people, we're used to being good at
> things easily and when we aren't we avoid them.

I think "smart people" want to avoid the "I feel dumb" stage of learning.
Actually, I suspect most people do. :) When it's something that's familiar
(like learning a new API or language) we can get through it with familiar
tools (e.g. our brain) so it's not quite as bad.

When it's something unfamiliar (like improving conversation with people) it's
a longer & more obvious stage and our usual tools don't help. (Particularly
when we have our critical brain along for the ride.)

> It's OK to not be good at something if you're just starting out.

I definitely had to remind myself of that when I enrolled in an Improv Theatre
course recently. :D

Good advice.

------
blueLight
See "How to Win Friends and Influence People" for a more complete discussion
on this technique :)

[http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-
People/dp/06...](http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-
People/dp/0671723650)

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alan
Tried to read the page, but it kept jumping back to the top on my android
phone. Could not make it through the first paragraph.

