
Robocalls Flooding Your Cellphone? Here’s How to Stop Them - gk1
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/smarter-living/stop-robocalls.html?sl_rec=mostpopular_sample_dedup&contentCollection=smarter-living&mData=articles%255B%255D%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.nytimes.com%252F2017%252F08%252F14%252Fsmarter-living%252Fsolar-eclipse-watch-time-location.html%253Fsl_rec%253Dmostpopular_sample_dedup%2526sl_l%253D1%26articles%255B%255D%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.nytimes.com%252F2017%252F05%252F11%252Fsmarter-living%252Fstop-robocalls.html
======
kilburn
It amazes me that most of you don't question the fact that you (north
americans?) are paying to _receive_ phone calls. Here (Spain, but I think it
applies to all the euro zone) we just do not pay to receive calls, which seems
much more sensible to me.

How would you feel if some random mailguy knocked at your door and when you
opened it he threw a package at your hands and immediately charged you for
(part of) the delivery? This is exactly how charging to receive phone calls
feels to me!

How do telcos justify this to you? What's the reasoning behind it?

~~~
ctwo
I'm not from the US, but I have worked with the US telecoms industry. The
original reason for this was due to the numbering plan. In most countries a
special 'area' code was chosen for mobiles, however in the US they decided to
just allocate mobile numbers in the existing area codes (NPAs). At least in
the early days of cellular it cost the providers more to connect a call to a
cell phone and so someone has to pay it. In a numbering plan where it is
possible to tell a number is mobile just by looking you can put that cost onto
the caller, but if it looks like a landline then the caller would feel hardly
done by getting charged extra. So that extra cost was put onto the cell phone
user accepting the call. This is hearsay from colleagues so may not be 100%
accurate, but it makes sense to me.

~~~
rasz
You can migrate your landline number to a cellphone plan in Europe. There is
no way to know whats on the other side when you are making a call.

~~~
dalore
Not in every country in Europe. UK for instance you can't (is that considered
Europe now?).

You can't even keep your landline when you move house.

~~~
aloicious235
Yes UK is in Europe and I think will be for the next few million years - oh
you meant the Political body - the European Union. Oh yes we're still in that
and will be for a few years at least.

As to the landline number, you can keep your landline number if you don't move
into an area where the phone numbers 'region' code is not applicable.

Just like I am sure that is the case for every other country in the world (or
thereabouts).

I am curious to know with regard to USA phone numbers where I cannot tell a
mobile from a landline by just looking at the number (e.g, UK Mobile numbers
can be identified because they are 07xxx numbers) but US mobile numbers look
like landlines and have the same area code.

Can you move to a different state and keep your number even if the area code
for that state is completely different?

~~~
dalore
Well with BT which is the national provider in the UK you can't keep your
landline number when you move if you are moving to another exchange (which is
most likely).

------
albeebe1
I work at RoboKiller.com

I've always thought the way to battle this problem is to waste the callers
time. The longer you keep them on the phone, the more expensive and less
profitable their robocall operation becomes. With enough people doing this, it
could slow them down.

At RoboKiller we intercept the call so it doesn't ring your phone or go to
voicemail. Instead what happens is we answer the call on our end and proceed
to waste the callers time by tricking them into thinking they're talking to a
human. Its really funny actually. We send you the recording when we're
finished.

A couple weeks ago we reached a point where the top robocallers caught on to
what we were doing. It was a proud moment for all of us. You can listen for
yourself...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi-
qtTuO9rY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi-qtTuO9rY)

~~~
cultofmetatron
never have I had a stronger "shut up and take my money" moment. I noticed that
you only have a ios app at the moment. Any plans on supporting android?

~~~
albeebe1
Here's an honest answer... we definitely want to support Android, but we don't
have the resources to do it right.

------
darkmagnus
I am at the point where I no longer answer my phone if it isn't one of my
contacts. If it is important, they will leave a message. I just press the hang
up button on my watch immediately, if it shows an unrecognized number, local
or not.

~~~
joezydeco
If you have an iOS phone, you can set it up to do this for you.

Do Not Disturb + allow calls only from contacts = whitelist of callers.

~~~
crsmith
I tried this, but Do Not Disturb silences all texts, including those from
contacts. Deal breaker for me.

~~~
joezydeco
There's an (awkward) way around that with Emergency Bypass:

[https://www.imore.com/how-receive-messages-specific-
contacts...](https://www.imore.com/how-receive-messages-specific-contacts-do-
not-disturb-mode)

------
athenot
The only way I found to fight them requires me to get annoyed enough that I
can devote a half-hour for the following:

\- follow through the automated prompts

\- get to the tier 1 pre-screening agent (usually some outsourced call-center)
and feign interest

\- get transferred to the next level and go fishing for a contact on their end

\- if they require a credit card to continue, provide a test number from
stripe/paypal etc.

\- remain nice and pose as gullible the whole time until you get that real
contact info

\- once you got a direct number of a real account rep (and/or company name),
set up a script and call them ~ 100 times with an auto-generated message
asking them to remove your number. A variant if it's a legit company with a
toll-free number: have your script call them and stay on as long as possible,
to make them pay for the call.

This is fighting fire with fire and it only works one group at a time. But it
does provides momentary satisfaction.

~~~
BonesJustice
Be careful with any sort of auto-dialer, even if you script it up yourself. If
the contact number you're given happens to be a cell phone, you'll run afoul
of the TCPA. Those fines can add up quickly.

~~~
itsdrewmiller
I'm going to go ahead and guess that the FCC would choose not to move forward
with fines in this case. :-P

~~~
BonesJustice
I was wrong to use the term 'fine'. The TCPA expressly allows individuals to
sue for _damages_. The FCC need not get involved.

If someone auto-dials your cell phone, and you can figure out who it is, you
can take them to court with a good chance of recovering money from them. If
you can prove a willful violation, which isn't necessarily a high bar, you can
get treble damages ($500 becomes $1,500). Multiply that by the number of
calls.

The hardest part is determining who actually called you. If you can get past
that hurdle, the court costs aren't terribly expensive, and you can exact a
tidy sum from repeat offenders. There are actually lawyers who specialize in
these kinds of cases, and because they aren't terribly expensive to pursue,
they'll even take them on contingency. I learned about this through a Reddit
AMA with such an attorney. Of course, a determined individual can prevail
without hiring a lawyer, provided they're willing to put in the time (and can
unmask the caller).

~~~
toomuchtodo
Run the number through Twilio's lookup API first:
[https://twilio.com/lookup](https://twilio.com/lookup)

It'll provide carrier and connection type info for the DID.

~~~
BonesJustice
Not sure how that helps when the caller spoofs the caller ID. According to
Twilio, the spam call I received earlier today came a number registered a
T-Mobile customer named Sharon. Pretty sure the actual origin was a call
center overseas. They just picked a random number that had the same first six
digits as my own number.

~~~
toomuchtodo
In that case, it does not help.

------
teirce
Full disclosure: I work for First Orion (the company powering the analytics
behind T-Mobile's "Scam-Likely" technology)

We have a couple of apps out in the wild that aren't mentioned in the article
here (seems like our media relations staff isn't working too hard)!

They're on Google Play and iTunes under the banner "PrivacyStar," and I think
they are worth checking out if the permissions / data accessed by other apps
(e.g. Hiya) has turned you off in the past. For starters, our apps don't lift
your contacts and don't strictly require your personal phone number (the
majority of our apps still use your number, but we are moving away from
including this data in our analytics). We collect analytic data from devices,
but in general it's the minimum amount required to power our nuisance-call
prevention systems. (I'm not aware of it being sold or farmed out in any way.)

Anyway, there's my elevator pitch. Just doing my part to get our name out
there, we're a small tech company in AR and it's hard to get any attention
down here! :)

~~~
thoughtpalette
Can you address any of the negative reviews? Seems like there's quite a few.

------
davidmurdoch
The tips in the article don't work in my case. I do all of them and get about
3-5 robocalls per day.

One of the most prolific robo scammers that calls me just about every weekday
spoofs their number to match the first 6 digits of my own phone number (area
code included).

~~~
analog31
While traveling in Europe, my mom got a SIM card so she could have Internet
access. It came with a phone number, which she didn't tell anybody. A couple
days later she got a call from a number that matched the first 6 digits of her
home number.

Therefore: The SIM card vendor in Europe shared not only her number, but
additional personal data allowing the robo-caller to determine her home number
in the US.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Was it a European phone number?

I think you might be too paranoid, and the explanation is simpler: if you dial
enough numbers, eventually you'll find some idiot willing to hand over control
of their computer, or their credit card number, or social security number.

~~~
analog31
Yes, she received a European number a few days prior, and then received a call
from a number matching the first six digits of her US home number. It was the
only call that she received on this number. I was there.

Granted you could be correct, but it was a weird coincidence, with one in a
million odds. She's quite tech savvy -- taught CS in the early 80s.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Ah, if someone faking a number like hers called her on an otherwise
unconnected european number, that's definitely... shady.

I'd contact her service provider for that sim card. They'd probably like to
know that an employee is selling numbers, or that a retailer is, etc. (Unless
they're doing it themselves.)

------
yoda_sl
As I did mention a month or so ago in a post related to robocall I decided
myself to tackle a solution to help fight those calls. I am still working on
it as a side project, and 90% of the backend system is done, and probably 50%
of the iPhone app done (considering to add Android support later). It will add
a twist on the way to fight such calls do it has at least a feature that
differentiate it from similar apps.

If anyone will want to help beta test when it is ready (require an iPhone with
iOS 10 or 11), ping me! (Email info in profile)

~~~
hueving
Can you give a hint of what it does differently than the current "report
spam"/"suspected spam caller" feature of Android?

~~~
yoda_sl
Not right now, since it is one of the aspect where my app will be different
than other app.

------
jbryson3
Largely unhelpful article.

Summary:

\- yes there are more robocalls

\- Don't pick up

\- Put your number on do not call list

\- Get an app to block them

~~~
mrhigat4
> \- Get an app to block them

I'd soon change my number before resorting to most apps. Unless it's like
uBlockOrigin where I just feed blacklists into it, I'm not really okay with
giving an organization besides my service provider my call history. Read
Nomorobo's TOS sometime, it's a doozy.

~~~
ionosphere
This is how the call blocking API on iOS works. The blocker app can only
provide a static, pre-set list of numbers to block to the OS, and that's it.
It has no access to call history, awareness of calls being received/made, etc.
The OS handles all the blocking, referring to the blacklist the app provided
earlier, and provides no feedback to the app itself about this.

Of course, this means that call blocking apps have less features than on
Android. For example, apps can't dynamically look up a number when a call is
revived and make an on-the-fly decision. This is in keeping with iOS'
philosophy of "privacy/security over features", vs. Android's "everything is
completely open to developers, for better or worse".

~~~
colinbartlett
It also means that the ultimate call blocking mechanism I've always wanted
isn't available on iOS: Only allow calls from known numbers in my address
book. Frustrating, because to achieve such a concept I've had to resort to DND
mode in iOS which then also blocks all push notifications.

------
alister
A great observation by tacostakohashi a year ago was that "peak telephone" was
the mid-1990s and its success is what kills it, following the same pattern as
postal mail, fax, email, usenet, and facebook:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551566](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551566)

~~~
smellf
Now you can often get so much more done talking to online chat for whatever
utility or organization. I guess it's only a matter of time before you're
talking to a robot there too (or is it happening already?) So have we perhaps
reached "peak communication"?

At least until the direct neural implant, when we can express or receive the
information we need by joining minds. But then will there be frustrating
computer minds that we have to interface with?

~~~
posguy
You think emailing or chatting your common utility will get your change order
processed in a reasonable timeframe? I've got bad news for you, knowing a few
people who work at local utilities, those emails you send in get to sit for
months in some cases before being processed, meanwhile an order put in when
you call in gets processed within days.

Many utilities just opened up the floodgates to email and other forms of
customer service, without adding any staff to handle said workload, hence the
severe backlog at many of these utilities. Same deal with meter readers, most
utilities have stopped hiring them because within 2 to 3 years, the utility
will have a new smart meter system implemented across the board, and they'd
rather not fire a whole team outright. Letting the employees churn without
replacing them is much less dramatic.

------
ChuckMcM
One of the sad things that broke when number porting became a thing was there
was no definitive answer of which phones were cell phones and which were land
lines. This was unfortunate because if you were called on your cell phone for
a long time it would cost you money, and if someone called in an unsolicited
way, you had 'damages' that you could sue for on the theory that they knew it
was a cell phone and they called it anyway. Now however they have reasonable
doubt and so they call whenever.

I wrote the FCC once and suggested that a good use of some of those fees I pay
would be to create a service that would instantly back trace and log a
complaint on a number using telemetry from inside the phone system. That
combined with a federal criminal statute which allowed for jail time for
masking the origin of a phone call and I think you could make to fairly costly
for the owners and enablers of this stuff.

~~~
ukmobile
In the UK, all mobile numbers start with "07". Simple solution to this
problem.

~~~
iampims
Until you run out of numbers starting with 07?

France started with 06 and is now using 07… but 08 is already taken for some
other purposes.

~~~
Nexxxeh
Then existing 07x numbers would be made 071x numbers, and repeat.

But the existing 07x range is effectively 9 digits long, (with a few chunks
out of it) so we're probably good for a while.

We've not started 072 and barely touched 076 (and 071 is currently unused but
that's sensible if the existing might ever be bumped to start 071).

Our population count is a good way way away from being 9 digits.

Already (because of number porting) you have numbers from networks now home in
the middle of number ranges of their competitors.

But I think we're more likely to see a separation of number/device before that
071x happens. Devices or SIMs will have an IPv6 address and your number is
separate but accessible. Time will tell.

------
pcunite
Why do mobile phones not provide the option, "if caller is not in contacts,
send immediately to voice mail". Seems like a simple check box.

~~~
czep
Both Android and iOS have "Do Not Disturb" features which almost accomplish
this. On my Android phone, the "Priority only" setting will silence any calls
from outside your contacts list. It would be ideal to be able to send directly
to VM, but this option definitely minimizes the distraction. I have it enabled
24/7, except when I know I'm expecting a call from an unknown number.

~~~
brixon
I use the "Mr. Number" app on Android to accomplish this. I have found that
straight to VM instead of silencing the phone actually reduces the number of
calls I get.

------
gregorymichael
Nomorobo ([http://nomorobo.com](http://nomorobo.com)) is great for this too on
iOS.

Fun fact about Aaron Foss, who started Nomorobo: In 2014 he was invited to
testify to the FCC on his efforts to fight robocalling. To drive home the
magnitude of the issue, he printed the anonymized call logs for the 15M calls
blocked by NomoRobo, and bought the 25 boxes of printouts with him to the
floor.

[https://www.wired.com/2015/01/guy-found-way-block-
robocalls-...](https://www.wired.com/2015/01/guy-found-way-block-robocalls-
phone-companies-wouldnt/)

~~~
mmcconnell1618
Nomorobo is $1.99 per-month per-device! Why should I have to pay for the phone
company not being able to screen out caller ID spoofers. This is a failure of
the phone company and the technology.

~~~
heimatau
I agree, it is a little pricy. Cost comes down over time. I don't know of any
other service that is doing this at the moment. I hope within a year or so, we
find an open source solution to this.

------
100k
I have had the same phone number for 15 years, and I have been getting A LOT
of robocalls lately.

I tried stopping them with NoMoRobo on iOS. It worked OK, but it can't match
"Unknown caller" or blocked numbers, which made it kind of worthless for me.
Sigh.

~~~
russdill
Really wish stock android had an easy way of blocking all calls/notifications
from callers without caller ID information.

~~~
boot13
I was just poking around in the settings for my new Android phone and found
Settings > Applications > Phone > Call blocking > Block list > Block anonymous
calls. Would that be helpful at all? I haven't tested it myself.

~~~
russdill
No such luck. Menu structure is different and dialer does not have that option
(stock 7.1.2)

------
6d6b73
I have slightly different way of dealing with them. I pick up, and either ask
them to hold on because I'm outside/on the other line/doing something etc.. or
if it's a robot I select option they want me to press to connect to the
operator. Next I put them on hold and wait to see how long it takes them to
disconnect. Record holder was 7 min 51 sec. When I have time I will also talk
to them, feed them incorrect information, put them multiple times on hold etc.
This wastes their time and money. Maybe if more people started doing that they
it would no longer be profitable. :)

~~~
Faaak
Exactly.

I did the same in Europe and calls lowered.

------
lucb1e
Aren't unsolicited, electronic commercial messages illegal, or is calling
somehow different from email?

As a Dutchman I've never received a call like that. Only once a text message
(about 7 months ago), and I highly suspect that one was just sent by my ISP on
the advertiser's behalf.

~~~
paulie_a
The USPS straight up sells your phone number when you move just by filling out
the change of address form online. There is no opt out.

~~~
0xfeba
Can you provide some more information on this?

~~~
prg318
The article is from 2013 but I believe this is what he is referring to:

\- [https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/07/08/how-
the-p...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/07/08/how-the-post-
office-sells-your-new-address-with-anyone-who-pays-and-the-little-known-
loophole-to-opt-out/#7cae632039f3)

~~~
Sleeep
That says nothing about phone numbers, just addresses.

Selling an address updating service to parties that already have your address
is not the same as "straight up sell[ing] your phone number when you move."

From the horses mouth:

"The information you supply will be used to provide you with the requested
mail forwarding and related services. Please be aware that this service is
voluntary, and that requested information is required to provide the service.
Collection of information for this service is authorized by 39 U.S.C. §403 and
404. We do not disclose your personal information to anyone, except in
accordance with the Privacy Act. Authorized disclosures include limited
circumstances such as the following ... to mailers, if already in possession
of your name and old mailing address, as an address correction service.
Information will also be provided to licensed service providers of the USPS to
perform mailing list correction service of lists containing your name and old
address. A list of these licensed service providers can be obtained at the
following URL:
[http://ribbs.usps.gov/ncoalink](http://ribbs.usps.gov/ncoalink)
/documents/tech_guides/CERTIFIED_LICENSEES"

They imply they only provide the new address but saying "the information you
supply" leaves it open to for them to provide your phone number along with
your new address.

------
dguaraglia
Google Fi provides this service out of the box. It shows you a red call screen
if they think the call is a spam call and it'll ask you if you want to block
that number. It's lowered my annoyance level a lot.

Somewhat related: if you want to stop receiving a ton of trash on your
mailbox, you can ask all credit agencies to stop sending you "pre-approved"
credit card offers. It's easily cut my trash mail in half:
[https://www.optoutprescreen.com](https://www.optoutprescreen.com)

~~~
Ajedi32
Pretty sure that's a native feature of the default Android dialer app, not
just Fi: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/07/25/googles-phone-app-
no...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/07/25/googles-phone-app-now-shows-a-
warning-about-spam-callers-and-makes-it-easy-to-block-and-report-them-apk-
download/)

~~~
dguaraglia
Ah, maybe. I have been using Android all the way back to 2011, but this is my
first non-Samsung phone. I have used "stockish" Android before (CyanogenMod)
but I guess those don't come with the actual default app as shipped by Google.

------
pavel_lishin
These are great bits of advice - for people with smartphones. What's my mom
supposed to do? She visited here for a week, owns a flip phone, and gets - _at
minimum_ \- a dozen calls a day. We spent a whole day together, I counted.

The majority of them come from a single number, and apparently Verizon refuses
to block it permanently without being paid a fee.

~~~
dabber
The only advice mentioned that is smartphone specific is the app suggestion.
The rest are things like don't answer and register on the donotcall list which
can be done with a rotary phone.

As for Verizon not blocking the number without charging you. Why not just
switch?

~~~
tgb
Yeah if only the do not call list worked...

~~~
bluGill
It doesn't work, but you should register anyway and report all instances. The
people who maintain that list and abuses of it need to know how badly it is
ignored. They need data on how big the problem really is. If they get only a
few reports of it not working, well that is statistical noise and can be
ignored. If everyone on the list constantly reports unwanted calls that is
data that it isn't working and a sign they need to do something about it.

One obvious thing they can do about it is pressure the phone companies to stop
allowing caller id spoofing. It isn't hard, if the number is from North
America, then the phone companies verify it (if it is from a cell phone
overseas they have verified the phone and should have verified the owner of
the phone), otherwise it is fraud.

Caller id spoofing exists so companies with a private switch can have a bunch
of different phones have the same number- but the phone company knows what
numbers the company is allowed to use so the rest can be filtered.

Mind you the above will take a few years to implement. However nobody is
working on it because if even one party that needs to do work doesn't the
whole thing falls apart.

~~~
tgb
So is there an easy way to do it? I've reported repeat callers a number of
times, and they just keep calling so I get weary of filling out forms online
and stop. I want a big ol' button on my phone that I can slap whenever I'm
dumb enough to answer.

------
deckar01
I have had pretty good luck answering the phone and not saying anything. The
call just ends without any recording. My volume has dropped from 2+ a day to 1
a week.

------
ikeboy
>One recent scheme involves getting consumers to say “yes” and later using a
recording of the response to allow unauthorized charges on the person’s credit
card account, the F.C.C. warned in March.

I doubt banks are using voice recognition on the single word "yes" to verify
charges. Does this make any sense?

~~~
adventured
That's a case where it has happened a small number of times, complaints were
filed, the FCC & Co. picked up on the scam, and they view it as their
responsibility to keep the public safe so they generalize. Although I suppose
given the speed at which AI is improving, the roboscammers will be utilizing
more and more advanced methods soon when it comes to voice sample
manipulation.

Most of this criminal activity is coming from outside the US, courtesy of
Twilio & Co. having turned the phone number system into an API such that it's
now easy to rapidly buy and ditch numbers for cheap. The only practical
solution for the end-user point is to insert greater intelligence into the
system at the carrier level or at the phone level.

We're facing a problem where very large numbers of phone numbers will be black
listed given enough time, unless we insert a greater cost into the system to
make the spamming unprofitable (or make it much harder to get a phone number
via services like Twilio). The US could try targeting the criminal
organizations and individuals operating these scams on the other end; of
course that's expensive and slow, and those people will just keep popping up
so long as it's easy to do and profitable. The improving and cheapening AI
will make it more and more profitable, as the scammers learn to snake into
new, more lucrative financial outlets using authentications / identities they
steal.

~~~
icebraining
Why would they need Twillio et all to give them new numbers, if as everyone
(including in this thread) says they can spoof the number, even showing as the
receiver's number itself?

------
Dowwie
Google android phones appear to be crowdsourcing countermeasures against spam
calls. For instance, I have a Google nexus phone. Often, spam calls are
indicated as such in android as I'm receiving a call. For calls that aren't
indicated as spam and manage to receive my answer, I hang up and hold my
finger down on the number until a menu appears where I can mark a number as
spam.

~~~
_asummers
I've been very pleased with this feature. I used to use TrueCall, but giving
my call data to yet another third party felt wrong.

------
boardwalker
Telcos should answer all calls to unregistered numbers with robots of their
own. Simple way to prevent spammers from finding real people.

------
forgotAgain
The only way this stops is for the FCC to direct backbone providers to block
non-US IP addresses that flood people with these calls.

------
lmcnish14
I started using the robokiller app and it's made a huge difference for me. I
get at least a few telemarketer calls every day and I had stopped answering
any phone calls. I've been using the app for a few months and now only get
calls that I want. Definitely worth the money for me.

------
AdmiralAsshat
The article recommends "Hiya" as an app among others. I have it on my phone,
but I've had horrible luck with it. The app will correctly identify fraudulent
or scam calls, but the program has prevented the call from reaching my phone
exactly _0%_ of the time. In practice, what ends up happening is that my phone
rings on the normal Android Dialer app, I decline the call, and then Hiya
shows up about 20 seconds later to tell me that the call was from a suspected
scam caller, which I already figured out when I decided to decline it.

Even after installing the thing, I'm forced to still do what I was doing
before, which is looking at the number and trying to quickly google it on my
PC before the ringing stops to figure out whether to answer or not.

~~~
exhilaration
My Google Nexus 6P phone has something like this built-in, I get a warning
when the number is ringing that it's a suspected spam call. If I answer, it
will ask me to confirm afterwards that it was indeed a Spam call (it always
is) allow me to block it in the future.

I'm assuming this is built into the stock Android dialer.

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
No, it's only available to Google and Nexus phones. In fact, Google explicitly
blocks non-Nexus phones from installing it:

[http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/05/14/google-has-
updated-t...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/05/14/google-has-updated-the-
google-dialer-to-block-sideloading-on-non-nexus-devices/)

I would love to have it, but I'm not going to buy a Pixel strictly for that
purpose.

------
Waterluvian
I have never once had an unsolicited call on my cell phone number. I suspected
it was because I simply never use it as a phone (data and text only) and
therefore somehow stayed off the radar. This seems to validate that thought.

It's been an interesting decade, that's for sure. The whole world kind of
expects you to have a phone number if you want to do business. Some people are
confused, but more often than not it's their software or processes that insist
I give a phone number. I leased a car recently and not giving out a number was
perplexing to the sales Dept. I explained that I simply don't have one. They
ultimately still wanted my business. I wasn't so lucky with getting a credit
card.

~~~
smellf
Your suspicion is correct. Your number gets out there because you give it out,
and then 10 years later the company goes under and liquidates their assets
which includes a load of customer phone numbers; or because you give it out
when you open a credit card or buy a mortgage or car, and you legally can't
limit the sharing of your personal info to third parties, who can share your
personal info as widely as they want... point is, not having a phone number
will be tantamount to not having a social security number in many situations.

~~~
EADGBE
> point is, not having a phone number will be tantamount to not having a
> social security number in many situations.

I think a phone number is shifting to be a replacement for social security
numbers in customer databases.

My grocery store/gas station relationship, Guitar Center, jewelry store, and
oil/lube service station. And that's just the last week-or-so interactions.
They don't know my social, but they're using my phone as a primary key for
their rewards/lookup.

~~~
jclardy
Maybe I'm too young, but why would any retail merchant ask for a social
security number? The only people I give that out to are banks.

~~~
EADGBE
For a while, a membership card number would have sufficed, but since no one
carries that around, the retailers are assigning your phone number to your
identity. Much like social security numbers did for the government back in its
inception.

------
yairhaimo
Lenny - Recordings of an hilarious spam-buster. Great way to pass the time:

[http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOG...](http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOGWrXlhl-
i_3g)

------
basicplus2
Easiest way to deal with this is never say anything when you pick up.. the
line just goes dead after a few seconds if it's a robo call

------
legohead
I noticed the uptick in spam calls as well, even though my phone has been on
the do not call list for years.

I changed my voicemail recording to: "You've reached the law offices of X and
Y, please leave a message..." It seems to have worked so far.

~~~
Johnny555
The only time spammers leave me voicemail, it's an automated recording, I
doubt any human spammer is evening listening to your "law offices of..."
voicemail recording.

------
jmuguy
Just a note of caution about Jolly Roger
([http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/](http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/)), I used
to love forwarding spam calls to them. However, since you have to pick up the
call to loop Jolly Roger in - the automated system might mark you for repeat
calls. For instance I answered a call about student debt repayment or whatever
to forward the call and since then I've been getting at least a few calls a
week from different numbers about it as well as text messages.

~~~
johnwaynedoe
I use Jolly Rodger as well and love it. I think you're correct about picking
up the call getting you added to a list. When that happens I just go on the
offensive. I call them back and forward the call over to Jolly Rodger multiple
times. I have been blacklisted by every call center that I've done this with.

------
phkahler
It should not be possible to spoof caller ID. This hole is what allows all of
this. Nobody would do this if you could reliably report them or call them
back.

------
ThrustVectoring
There's only a few people that I want to have the ability to have real-time
interrupt-driven access to me. My phone is pretty much always set on do-not-
disturb, and those folks are whitelisted through. The only time it's off do-
not-disturb is if I'm expecting a call. Otherwise, leave a message or use some
other asynchronous way to contact me.

------
barron4jesus
484 273 0091 calls multiple times such as 5 within one minute. When answered,
there's no one there. I've blocked, and sent a text message threatening to
report as harassing calls. So, how do I go about making such a report?

------
godelski
Has anyone been getting calls from numbers that are oddly similar to your own?
As in (xxx)xxx-abcd, where x is the same numbers as my own. Both my coworker
and I seem to get these calls. We have different area codes too. Both are on
the FCC DNC list. I frequently report these numbers too.

~~~
mikeleung
I get these all the time, like 3-4 a day. I'm pretty sure they are spoofed. I
suspect, they are meant to look like your number so you might for a second
think 'hey i recognize that number' and pick up

~~~
godelski
I had a feeling that was the intention, but I was surprised at the tactic.
Because that does mean they are likely spoofing real numbers. But it does seem
that that is something the FCC should crack down on.

------
Shivetya
I have been out of the loop for awhile, however in the nineties we had a dial
in system at work we used for guards to report when on site and when leaving a
site from work. We relied on ANI data from the phone company which contained
the actual number the call was placed from.

Surely the phone company has this data and could compare it in flight to what
is being passed along as the caller id information which I was under the
impression is wholly separate data. If anything do so smart phones could see
both entries and flag suspicious calls

------
snowwrestler
I just answer the call and don't say anything. After a few seconds the robot
makes a few beeps and hangs up. Presumably the software waits to hear the
recipient say something before starting the recording.

I hope it marks the number as bad when this happens. I will say that I have
received fewer calls since I started doing this.

If it is a real person calling you, they'll sense the silence and say "hello?
Anyone there?" or something.

~~~
quesera
Reportedly, if you play a reorder tone or special information tri-tone, the
dialer will mark your number invalid.

------
billpg
What could someone evil do with a recording of me saying "Yes"? I have a
YouTube channel and I've probably said that word in a few of them.

~~~
Sleeep
[https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-warns-can-you-hear-me-
phone...](https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-warns-can-you-hear-me-phone-scams)

>The scam begins when a consumer answers a call and the person at the end of
the line asks, “Can you hear me?” The caller then records the consumer's "Yes"
response and thus obtains a voice signature. This signature can later be used
by the scammers to pretend to be the consumer and authorize fraudulent charges
via telephone.

In other words they splice together "do you want to authorize these charges?"
And your "Yes" and present this as "proof" to the credit card company you
authorized the charges you are disputing.

~~~
rrauenza
Status unproven: [http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-
scam/](http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-scam/)

~~~
Sleeep
I should have added a caveat, I actually agree with you and I, too, was
skeptical of the fact this has been happening. However, since the FCC released
an official document about it I figured it was worth mentioning as a
theoretical possibility. I am unaware of many cases where the FCC spread urban
legends without getting actual complaints, so people presumably have actually
been complaining about this happening to them to the FCC, or at least them
believing it's happened to them.

The "can you hear me" call would have to take place AFTER a scammer had
already charged your card for a dubious service. They would (probably?) have
to have a merchant account with a payment processor for that.

------
SippinLean
A piece of advice they don't mention: use an alternate number for registering
websites and/or hide your WHOIS data.

I have a Google Voice # I used only for domain registration. I let the WHOIS
guard expire, and I now get regular spam calls to that number daily.

I'm sure they source the numbers from a lot of places, but from what I've
experienced and read this is a big source of them.

~~~
scierama
I use Google Domains, privacy guarding is free.

------
lsiebert
The responses here are only addressing the symptom. You want to stop
robocalling, make it stop earning the callers money.

~~~
lsiebert
I wonder, incidentally, if stopping it at the banking/money transfer level
would be effective.

~~~
adventured
It's a whack-a-mole problem. You could never move quickly enough in the
banking world to squash how this thing works. The methods are going to get
more and more advanced, as AI tech gets better very rapidly in the next few
years. The carriers, FCC, and banking system are entirely unprepared for
what's coming next.

If you really wanted to smash it, make it harder for the roboscammers to abuse
the relatively new API systems of inexpensively buying phone numbers in the US
market. That either has to occur at Twilio & Co's level or it will have to be
government action.

If Twilio & Co are smart, they'll get on this soon rather than allowing their
business to be destroyed by heavy handed or inept government moves. There are
few things more ripe for bad and unintended outcomes than the US government
moving rapidly into something they don't understand in the name of safe
guarding the people.

~~~
dredmorbius
You'd be surprised at how quickly adaptive fraud detection systems can work.

~~~
lsiebert
I wonder how quickly phone companies would shut down people if they faced a
meaningful financial penalty.

~~~
dredmorbius
Hrm .... interesting suggestion.

I wonder if there are similar cases or ways to create a test.

------
familyit
Oh the joys of government systems. I received this when verifying my number is
on the do not call list.

"Due to system difficulties, your request was not processed. Please try your
request again later or call 1-888-382-1222 to submit your request by phone. We
are sorry that we are unable to process your request at this time."

------
technofiend
What we need is a simple addition which allows whitelisting - if the contact
isn't in your phonebook it's either blocked or you're prompted to accept.

Yes it would create an issue in the case of emergencies but that's what
voicemail is for.

------
an_account
I get at least one call a week now. Always from the same area code, often one
a few digits off from my number.

I wonder how long it will take for the goverment to start enforcing the do not
call registry laws. What’s the threshold of annoyance before it’s worth
spending taxpayer money to enforce?

~~~
ams6110
The laws are basically unenforcable.

The carriers could do something about it. I'd consider switching service to a
carrier that demonstrated they block these kinds of calls. Just like a big
part of gmail's popularity is how effectively they block spam.

~~~
com2kid
> The carriers could do something about it. I'd consider switching service to
> a carrier that demonstrated they block these kinds of calls.

T-Mobile blocks a lot of spam callers, but they do not seem to block these
spoofed caller ID calls.

Thankfully these spoofed calls are so easy to spot that they aren't even a
real annoyance to me.

~~~
DrScump
On my T-Mobile GS7, most such callers are recognized and given a "Scam Likely"
caller-id label.

~~~
posguy
How does the phone model even play into this? Odd of you to mention it.

~~~
DrScump
It doesn't occur on my GS5s.

~~~
smudgymcscmudge
The difference may be the t-mobile account instead of the phone. IIRC, they
are rolling the "Scam Likely" feature out starting with t-mobile one plans.

~~~
masonic
In my case, all 5 phones are on the same plan and account.

------
malka
it baffles me that people answer to unknown phone number. If you want to
contact me, and I do not know you yet, you'll have to contact me through an
asynchronous way. Voicemail, SMS, e-mail, whatever. Synchronous communication
takes way to much time.

~~~
BonesJustice
This. The only time I answer a call from an unknown number is if I'm expecting
a food delivery, and it might be the restaurant or delivery person calling.
Otherwise, I mash the 'decline' button, and it goes to voicemail.

------
codedokode
Why is robocall and telemarketing spam legal? It is surprising that in a
modern world where everything is regulated and monitored such a simple problem
cannot be solved with fines and jail.

------
izzydata
Why are spam calls not against the law in the same way that spam emails are?

~~~
BonesJustice
Calls and text messages to cell phones that use any sort of auto-dialer _are_
illegal without express written consent (and the term 'auto-dialer' is applied
rather broadly). The same goes for calls that deliver a pre-recorded message.
Fines for violations can range from $500 to $1,500 _per violation_ , but
you'll have to figure out who's actually calling you in order to file for
damages. Almost all of these calls spoof their caller ID, so good luck with
that.

If you're in the Do Not Call registry, there are another set of fines on top
of those imposed by the TCPA. They start out around the same range, but for
excessive violators the fines can now reach up to $40,000 per call (as of
August 2016).

~~~
codedokode
Do Not Call registry means that by default spammers are allowed to call anyone
not on the list. I guess they paid a lot to politicians to have it this way.

~~~
BonesJustice
I suppose it had the effect of legitimizing telemarketing at the time, but the
effect diminishes as more and more people abandon landlines. Spammers can't
legally call a cell phone without express written consent unless they dial the
number manually, which of course they never do. That's a protection of the
TCPA. Same goes for text messages.

------
lotsofpulp
If you have AT&T, try the AT&T Call Protect app:

[https://www.att.com/features/security-
apps.html](https://www.att.com/features/security-apps.html)

~~~
albedoa
The insane thing about this app is it still allows some numbers through that
they have identified as "severe threats". So AT&T are allowing known severe
threats to go through.

The app works pretty well most of the time. I just can't wrap my head around
this decision unless maybe there is lag between their identification of a
number as a threat and their ability to block it.

~~~
lotsofpulp
They might be playing it safe letting the calls still ring your phone, instead
of auto blocking. I've had a call show up labeled Telemarketer, but I actually
was expecting that call (from Dish TV billing), so I just let them go to
voicemail and if they do leave me a message then I know it was a legit call.

------
heywire
Revenge on IRS phone scammers:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzedMdx6QG4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzedMdx6QG4)

------
caleblloyd
I had been receiving many spam calls and downloaded the Truecaller app. It
crowdsources spam caller information and does a good job of notifying you if a
call is spam.

------
chrisbennet
Is there a phone equivalent of "ping"? If there is/was, one might be able to
tell if the caller was local just be the round trip time.

------
smarks
TL;DR Don't pick up calls from unfamiliar numbers.

It did help confirm a sneaking suspicion I've had, which is that robocalls
spoof a caller ID number with your area code and prefix, to make it seem more
familiar.

Stories about people who manipulate telemarketers are amusing, and mobile
minutes are mostly no longer scarce, but who has the time? Time and attention
are the scarcest resources.

~~~
russdill
Surely telcos can do something to block calls coming from sources that don't
own the number they are providing as caller id. Internet provides started
doing this years ago with alien packets.

~~~
toast0
There are a lot of legitimate reasons why a call from a number isn't coming
from where you would be directing the call, so it's hard to fix it with a
simple policy. What would be useful though is requiring something analogous to
email received headers, combined with a real time method to report calls as
spam/unwanted.

If spam volume from an interconnecting carrier is too high, cut them off.

Telco routing is a lot of twisty passages, but there are many fewer players
than internet routing, so it should be easier to get bad apples off the
network, as long as there is desire and some users are willing to provide
feedback on calls.

~~~
posguy
Carriers already do this FYI, but it only gets you so far. Robocallers pay
higher rates due to this, but they seem glad to pay.

------
empath75
I think a simple way to fix it would be to charge someone an extra fee the
first time they dial a number, and transfer most of that money as a debit on
the callees bill. It wouldn't take much to make robocalls unprofitable.

------
qrbLPHiKpiux
"Jolly Rodger" LOL!

I still have that text file sompelace!

------
thomastruett
Check out quitcalling.us

~~~
yoda_sl
Just a landing page and no info on who is working on this service... doesn’t
make me confident.

------
dredmorbius
"Attorney general's office, criminal complaints investigations, how may I help
you?"

~~~
TuringNYC
Impersonation of government officials is a crime, at least in the US. Funny in
this case, but not adviseable.

~~~
BenjiWiebe
If the call center is in India you probably wouldn't get in trouble for it.
For that matter, what call center would report you?

~~~
dredmorbius
"Hello, I'm calling to report an impersonation of a government official."

"So, what official was impersonated, exactly?"

"Well, not directly ..."

"And how did this impersonation happen to come about?"

"Well, I was robocalling about a million households all on the Do Not Call
Registry ..."

I'm not too worried about that risk.

