
NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet - justinzollars
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nba-events-in-china-disrupted-over-hong-kong-tweet-11570613597?mod=rsswn
======
ivankolev
A tidbit from the article: > In an indication of how the basketball dispute
may be galvanizing some sectors of Chinese society, police in the northeastern
province of Jilin said they had arrested on Sunday a 25-year-old man accused
of making online “remarks that insult the national flag.”

The man was identified by police only by his family name Wang and his online
screen name on the messaging service Weibo. That account showed a photo of a
man wearing a Houston Rockets jersey with a cover over his eye—imagery adopted
by demonstrators in Hong Kong—and holding a lighter below an upside down
Chinese flag.

“I live and die with the basketball team,” the posting said.

~~~
magashna
Any American basketball fan is fair-weather compared to this guy. Although I
wonder if it's the best hill to, possibly literally, die on.

~~~
russdpale
fun fact, Michael Jordan is the only human to have a statue in china taller
than Mao.

~~~
joelx
We should boycott the NBA and find ways to help bring freedom to China.

------
pitt1980
The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me.

The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their
own population by taking it off the air?

Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work
in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. It seems
like the reaction would cause a Streisand effect there.

Isn't a backlash among the US population over this plainly foreseeable? That
doesn't seem like its in their interests.

Working off the assumption that the Chinese government is rational, why is its
reaction here so strong?

What other things are about to happen, that make this reaction make sense?

~~~
sgoraya
> Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even
> work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China.

NBA fan, who will NOT be renewing league pass, checking in. Morey is
considered one of the top NBA GM's of one of the top teams (Rockets) that have
a strong Sino-centric fan base because of former Rocket great, Yao Ming. Yao
was the first Chinese superstar in the NBA. The Rockets are the 'adopted' team
of China.

> Isn't a backlash among the US population over this plainly foreseeable?

I agree - I'm not paying for league pass this year. I did not like the
response from the NBA.

~~~
baumy
Another longtime NBA fan here, just backing up what you're saying about Morey.
Especially in regards to the NBA in China, he's a fairly significant figure,
more so than the original comment implies.

On a different note - I was in the same boat as you and actually wrote an
email to the league pass support address (did not get a reply yet) telling
them that I had been a customer for years and would not be renewing this year
because of the NBA's spineless capitulation to an authoritarian regime. I'm
still disappointed they didn't respond correctly more quickly, Adam Silver
really needed to make a strong statement over the weekend, but the statements
he made earlier this week were much, much better. Unfortunate that it likely
only happened because they underestimated the $$$ hit from American customers
being pissed, and I'm under no illusion that anything but the bottom line is
the primary concern, but I'm curious what you didn't like about Silver's most
recent press conference. He pretty unequivocally said that the NBA will not
infringe the free speech of its employees and gave the classic "sorry you were
offended" non-apology-apology.

Part of me would have liked to see a stronger statement, but I'm also not sure
it's the NBA's job to escalate an international relations issue, particularly
when many of its players (including LeBron James, who has to be the most
valuable asset the NBA currently has) were/are actually in China as this plays
out.

I'm holding out a small bit of hope that there will be a stronger statement
once no more NBA employees are in China. I have a couple of friends working in
NBA front offices and a few rumors have reached their ears that the NBA is
afraid to react too much for fear of retaliation in the form of players
getting detained and stopped from leaving China (just to be clear, I have zero
proof of this, but it seems logical).

~~~
pitt1980
On Morey, sure, basketball fans know who he is, and he’s a respected guy, but
relative to say LeBron or Harden, in a list of Q scores, he’s certainly behind
at least hundreds of other NBA personalities,

And this was a 2 line tweet,

Which again is blocked in China.

I maintain that had the Chinese government just ignored this, or stuck it
behind the Great Firewall,

This would be a complete non-story.

Now millions of Chinese citizens are wondering why exactly they can watch the
NBA games they enjoy (even if they don’t agree with Morey at all).

~~~
the_resistence
It couldn't be ignored because the kids of the elites there all have VPNs and
access the real/free internet. Someone posted to social media there and it
blew up. But no one asks how the tweet was seen in the first place and why
access is only for the rich.

------
jackschultz
Posted and talked about yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21194008](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21194008)

Don't know how people feel about these things being multi-posted, but I kind
of like seeing a different thread where more people can comment considering
top comments in a thread can be random, and also people's opinions can change
as quickly as a day.

~~~
drenvuk
Eh, maybe I"m reading too much but having 4 or 5 articles on the front page be
dedicated to China news is too much for me.

~~~
dkonofalski
It's clearly a major topic of conversation and discussion, though.

~~~
egeozcan
Yes and it should be too. On the other hand if you seek content that you can
only see in HN and the small amount of similar sites, and when these also get
overrun with news that you can already follow on mainstream, it feels like
there are no options left. Well maybe except lobste.rs.

~~~
trevyn
I find the HN “hide” option to work well for uninteresting stories.

------
clairity
the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is
interesting.

here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free
speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league
rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for
not going far enough, because greed.

with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an
expression of governmental power). the league bans the respectfully protesting
player (because greed) and fans cheer the oppression in the name of
patriotism.

the subtext is not so flattering for us americans.

~~~
vnchr
Interesting interpretation of events.

Most accounts of the NBA controversy that I've heard suggest the apology to
China made by the Houston Rockets's James Harden[1] in response is what has
drawn criticism. And the GM has been pressured into making an apology [2].
That was after the Houston Rockets immediately distanced themselves from the
statement [3]. The criticism I've heard has been of the subservient apologies,
because freedom. Our _National_ Basketball Association has demonstrated a
split loyalty.

Also, Kaepernick was not banned, although perhaps that's an interpretation of
his not being rehired after his contract ended. Statistically, he was the
worst or second worst QB in the NFL. Add to that the PR risk, and the return
on investment is negative.

In China, if I posted that same critical comment to social media, I'd fear for
my life and the lives of my family as a direct action from the government. In
the USA, Colin Kaepernick has a lucrative Nike endorsement and, while a
controversial figure, lives freely and is often celebrated freely.

I'll side with us Americans on this one.

[1] [https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27787634/james-harden-
ap...](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27787634/james-harden-apologizes-
controversy-grows-love-china)

[2] [https://www.npr.org/2019/10/07/767805936/houston-rockets-
gm-...](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/07/767805936/houston-rockets-gm-
apologizes-for-tweet-supporting-hong-kong-protesters)

[3]
[https://twitter.com/TilmanJFertitta/status/11803302879574958...](https://twitter.com/TilmanJFertitta/status/1180330287957495809)

[4] "Kaepernick had a defense-adjusted yards above replacement — Football
Outsiders’ ultimate value quotient — of minus-182, 35th in the NFL. By all
metrics, he was one of the worst quarterbacks in the league."
[https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-
kaepernick-49ers-s...](https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-
kaepernick-49ers-start-chip-kelly-nfl-buffalo-stats-career-highlights-
fantasy-101116)

~~~
taobility
Kaepernick is safe because he is a celebrity, did you read the news about some
other nobody Americans?

~~~
vnchr
I’m a nobody American. I can demonstrate my freedom, if you’d like.

I, being of sound mind, declare that my President is shit. And he’s wrong
about things. And his hair is ridiculous.

No consequences. That’s allowed. My real identity is adequately tied to this
account, and I fear no repercussions for criticizing my government leaders.

~~~
taobility
In US, it's more scare to say you support Trump, and also it's declare to
death that you say you don't like black people. And also, you are freely to
say that in China, and you may get applause for that. Does that approve
anything? Did you get my point?

~~~
vnchr
I do appreciate your point that there are social consequences for certain
kinds of personal expression. If I publicly support an unpopular political or
religious or social view, it could damage my professional reputation and limit
my job prospects.

But those aren’t government enforced laws. People can choose their own rules
for speech.

If I insult my employer, I may be fired. There are social consequences for
taking controversial stances—that’s true of all societies. But those aren’t
legal consequences in the USA. Our government can’t intervene except for
specific cases where you are inciting violence or physical danger when it
comes to personal expression.

When it comes to speech, should the government have the power or should the
people have the power? I don’t want my government to have that power over me,
and I certainly don’t want China to have that power over citizens of the USA.

~~~
taobility
1\. we are talking about freedom of speech. Whether the damage from the peers
or from the administration, for the normal people, I don't think there is big
difference. 2\. I am not fully understand what's your meaning of China's power
over USA citizens. I don't think Chinese government has enforced any US
citizen do anything they don't want to do. 3\. Boycotting is really normal in
modern days, and it's a polite way to express your disagreement. NBA can stand
with their point, but Chinese and Chinese government can boycott as well. Just
like what Kaepernick did and NFL audience did.

------
hos234
All this is reminding me of the fall of the Iron Curtain for some reason. That
too started in unexpected ways and was over quicker then anyone imagined.

"They have 200000 soviet soldiers watching...silos full of nuclear missiles
and he wants to topple them with leaflets" \-
[https://youtu.be/F_kVbLubBxM](https://youtu.be/F_kVbLubBxM)

------
ivankolev
This keeps getting escalated it seems, fans were ejected in Philly, for waving
signs in support of HK: [https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/philadelphia-76ers-
sixers-f...](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/philadelphia-76ers-sixers-fans-
hong-kong-signs-ejected-preseason-china)

------
lancesells
Crazy how all this started from a service (Twitter) that is banned in China.
Not only censoring apps that do business there but outrage over a comment on
an app the Chinese people aren't even supposed to see.

~~~
taobility
There are millions of Chinese living at USA right now

~~~
hkmaxpro
Most aren't Chinese nationals any more.

They either grew up learning US values, or were natralized with the oath “I
absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any
foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have
heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the
Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies,
foreign and domestic”. [0]

In any case, they enjoy the freedom to access different opinions in the US,
and should respect those opinions.

[0] [https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-
test/nat...](https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-
test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america)

------
seph-reed
If anyone knows the full list of who to boycott, I've opened an issue on the
Hong Kong support github:

[https://github.com/hongkonggong/beyond-lennon-
walls/issues/2...](https://github.com/hongkonggong/beyond-lennon-
walls/issues/24)

------
sunshine2000
In the USA, racism is biggest issue. In China, sovereignty is the biggest
issue. Any companies who are doing business with China, they must have this in
their minds.

------
tomohawk
NBA needs to decide whether they are an organ of the CCP (Chinese Communist
Party) or whether they have some self respect. They're in an important
position to protect the sport, but if they go chasing after money from the CCP
what will they be then?

And what do they think will happen to the protesters in Hong Kong? Probably
the same thing that has happened to others.

[https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgement-
report/](https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgement-report/)

Why identify with the CCP by doing what they say?

------
NTDF9
I think this is all posturing. They are using Trump's own tactic against him.

Keep increasing stakes with more losses to be had before the next trade
meeting

------
bigpumpkin
Two funny things about this:

1\. Both Americans and China are furious at the NBA, both are threatening to
boycott it.

2\. Tencent just signed a $1.5 Billion streaming deal with the NBA. If the
Chinese ban the NBA, then the first casualty (besides the NBA) is their own
company.

~~~
dirtyid
On 2, banning US media/sports which Chinese can stream for free might just be
contextualized further trade retaliation. Though I think banning the NBA has
actual potential for domestic backlash compared to HK.

