

Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007) - jonas_b
http://www.esquire.com/features/honesty0707

======
rcs
I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I
repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will
appreciate your honesty.

Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep
with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did
say that I wanted to start my own business.

Our relationship went from great to icy.

Over the next seven months my work life became a living hell. I went from
"valued team contributor" to "does not function as part of the unit." My
dedication was called into question and eventually I was told that the company
had changed and that I was no longer useful.

I wasn't fired, but, I was left alone in my office, no new tasks were
assigned, my medical condition was not accommodated, etc.

I eventually left my position, lost my gf because of it, ruined my credit
after I couldn't find a new job, and have been unable to get loans to return
to school (after leaving to help out my former employer.)

I often wonder what my life would be like if I had just said: "In five years I
see myself working for you with only a slight raise!"

Don't try this at home.

~~~
physcab
To play devil's advocate, I would say that perhaps the benefits of being
radically honest haven't been made apparent to you yet.

I don't know anything about you but let's have a little thought experiment
here:

Sure it has seemingly destroyed your life in the short term, but I would argue
that having a less kitschy life might be good for you.

Let's take your situation claim by claim. By being open and honest with your
boss, you indirectly put an end to your career. But had you lied and remained
there, would you have always been happy? Surely your dreams were to start your
own business.

Now your gf. Again, I don't know anything about your relationship. But if your
gf left due to financial reasons, wasn't it better to learn that lesson sooner
rather than later?

Your credit. With the same disclaimers as above, perhaps having your credit
destroyed was a forceful way of telling you to refocus your priorities in
life. no?

You can always wonder what your life might have been like if you made a
different decision. I do that all the time. But I'd like to think that honesty
opens doors, not closes them. You might disagree with everything I just wrote,
but I would like to see your response a year (or 5) from now how your life has
changed.

~~~
redrobot5050
Over and over people here on HN tell each other the same old advice:
"Execution is everything."

By being radically honest with your boss, you executed a career change poorly.
Nothing else needs to be said. We could speculate that had he executed his
career aspirations better, he would've ended up founding his own businessa, on
his own terms, with his former boss on board as a character reference or angel
investor.

Likewise, the girlfriend might not have left for a financial reason: It might
have been a combination of money and his medical condition going un-addressed.

Having your credit destroyed makes it _harder_ , not easier to start your own
business. "Focusing on your priorities" doesn't mean shit. Realistically $10k
in debt, or poor credit, sets you back 7 years compared to most of your peers.
"Get used to living on less -- like always within your meager means" might be
a better mantra.

Also, he might've also been a dreamer with no intention of working for
himself. In my approximation, that's 80% of the people here on HN. To them,
the grass is greener, but they won't ever dare try climbing the fence.

------
DaniFong
I think in some sense that Blanton is advocating an intellectually lazy kind
of radical honesty. It's not communicating to excrete whatever verbalizations
come to mind because there is no one thing on your mind. You are forced to
censor, or at least edit, what you say, by the limitations of the channel.

The real value, I think, in honesty, is that it brings one's thoughts out in
the open to work with, instead of sapping one's energy and directing it
towards the construction of some facade.

~~~
dkarl
Radical honesty isn't a presently effective means of communication. It's an
attempt to reform the channel and move towards a new protocol. Radical honesty
guarantees being misunderstood in the short run, because if you say something
more honest than expected, you're communicating -- according to the prevailing
protocol -- "I'm desperate" or "Fuck you" or both or something worse. You have
to accept the cost of the miscommunication you cause by speaking your own
niche language to people who only speak the prevailing language (and probably
speak it more fluently than you do, simply because they specialize.)

Frankly, I don't see the point. Most people _are_ pretty honest already, if
you understand the language they speak. White lies are designed to be
transparent; people who expect them to deceive don't get it, and people who
are deceived by white lies deceive themselves. "You're not fat" can mean so
many things depending on how you say it:

1\. You're not fat.

2\. You're worried about being fat? Really?

3\. Why are you asking that when we're all twenty pounds heavier than you?
What kind of bitch are you? Fish for your compliments somewhere else.

4\. You're fat, but I don't want to hear about your problems.

5\. A better question is, are you hot? And the answer is yes.

Et cetera. There's no point in being dissatisfied with the channel and the
protocol because you can actually communicate whatever you want on it. I'd
rather just get better at speaking and understanding the language that
everybody else speaks. The only problem is that sometimes honesty is
unexpected, and the protocol is not optimized for unexpected honesty. If you
want to say something completely honest, you might have to spend some time
setting it up to avoid it being interpereted as "Fuck you."

~~~
david72486
I think that part of the success of "Radical Honesty" is not directly about
honesty, but about taking risks. So many people live a bland life because they
cannot fathom "making waves". This is normal. However, "Radical Honesty"
forces us to break these laws. I think life is meant for excitement, and this
is one way of achieving it. (As Tim Ferriss and others have pointed out)
Happiness and Sadness are two sides of the same coin. Its boredom that makes
life miserable.

~~~
redrobot5050
Yeah. When you've realized the phrase "shit settles on the bottom of the pool"
sticks in your mind, alongside the phrase "my co-workers are settling" then
you're on the path to misery.

------
yan
AJ Jacobs writes really cool 'project' pieces: he dedicates himself to an idea
and writes articles and books about it. I loved "A year of living biblically"
and am hoping to read "Know it all" sometime soon.

------
Nwallins
Print Link -- One page, mostly text: <http://www.esquire.com/print-
this/honesty0707>

------
jonas_b
Funny video about this guy's attempt to run for congress.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx-OVdTkwvA>

~~~
lukifer
I've often wished that our cultural values would reverse when it comes to
gaffes and skeletons in the closet: that we would _only_ trust politicians who
are insultingly blunt and who wear their failings on their sleeves. Any
candidate who looks too squeaky-clean would be laughed out of the room as
obviously trying to deceive and manipulate us.

I can dream, right?

------
petercooper
I hope someone else can remember this, but wasn't there a link around here
recently (possibly elsewhere) about how it was speculated that the ability to
lie was thought to distinguish us from other animals? That is, lying is a
concept associated with intelligence?

Of course, I could be wrong, and am merely trying to make a point without
standing behind it, so that I can avoid the humiliation of being called out on
it.

~~~
randallsquared
Dogs and cats can and do lie, by trying to cover up things they've done
(literally, usually), and by trying to direct your attention away from where
it's covered up.

~~~
paulgb
How do you define lying, though? Does the animal have intent to deceive, or
does he just have a cause/effect memory that makes it behave in ways we
anthropomorphize as lying?

I've seen some dogs do some pretty clever things, and I think they have more
brains than most people give them credit for, but I don't think they
intentionally deceive.

~~~
randallsquared
If you're asking if I think the dog is _consciously_ lying, then no, because
that presupposes consciousness (that is, that the dog is a person). Do I
believe that the dog is engaging in the same behavior that in a person we
would call "lying"? Yup. Intent only matters if there's someone to do the
intending. Deception, however, is an activity that needs no intention -- it
evolved before consciousness.

~~~
paulgb
If it doesn't require intent, would you consider Batesian mimicry
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batesian_mimicry> ) "lying"? Or does it have to
be in the form of behaviour to be a lie?

(I'm not trying to argue a point here, just being curious. I'm not sure how
I'd answer these myself, but I find this interesting to think about. Thanks
for making me think :) )

~~~
randallsquared
I dunno. I'm not sure there's a bright line between Batesian mimicry and
behavioral lying, but I haven't thought about it much.

------
rsheridan6
My hunch is that this is a charismatic (evidence: he's fucked 500 women) guy
telling everybody "be more like me." That reminds me of somebody I used to
work for who would say things to people that would have gotten me fired or
beaten up in the parking lot, but he got away with it because he was charming.

So what happens when somebody with average or sub-average charisma tries it?

~~~
redrobot5050
You get fired. And beaten up in the parking lot.

The real trick is to be more charismatic. Charisma can be learned. Your image
can be polished. Its a question of time, drive, and priorities. Every "I've
fucked 500 women, be more like me" guy on the planet states that their skills
are teachable.

So learn the skills. The smarmy, stuck-up, get-away-with-the-most-
inconsiderate-things part is just something that you learn you can get away
with AFTER you've learned to be charismatic.

------
mannicken
I don't think so. I view people around me as animals, a part of natural
environment (like trees, rocks, water).

I am dedicated to _always_ play a role. Just like I wouldn't go and jump from
a bridge to defy gravity I wouldn't say "God doesn't exist" to my mother, who
is a fundamental Christian. I am not particularly scared of consequences of
saying "fuck you, pig" to a policeman but I'm also not scared of banging my
head against the wall. Yet, I don't see any particular reason why I should
bang my head against the wall.

I like PG's essay "Things you can't say" since it describes me so perfectly.
Inside my mind anything is allowed, even the most perverse and horrible
fantasies -- ANYTHING. Yet, not much of this goes outside :)

------
NonEUCitizen
"when he [your boss] asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I
wanted to start my own business... Our relationship went from great to icy."

hmm... if you're in Silicon Valley, it's assumed that everyone wants to start
his/her own business.

