
Dam Project Threatens to Submerge Thousands of Years of Turkish History - kafkaesq
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/world/europe/turkey-hasankeyf-ilisu-dam.html
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Frogolocalypse
These people can't win. They try to remove the reliance upon oil and coal, and
add surer supplies of water for their populace, and still people find reasons
to criticize. As opposed to pumping more carbon into the atmosphere, thanks,
I'll take the dam. Infrastructure to serve the living is far more useful than
infrastructure to observe the dead.

~~~
enraged_camel
Environmentally, dams are hardly harmless. Just the opposite: they tend to
have devastating consequences for the ecosystems they withhold water from
downriver. Sure, they don't pump out carbon dioxide, but they cause lots of
local damage.

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fernly
I spent a few hours in Hasankeyf in 1999, on a tour to view a total solar
eclipse. The buses parked on the Tigris shore and we all climbed up through
some of the cave passages and houses. Here are some pics[1]. Certainly the
town is a hugely impressive historic site. However the population is small and
poor, so probably has little political clout.

[1] [https://cortesi.smugmug.com/Solar-Eclipses/1999-Turkey-
Hasan...](https://cortesi.smugmug.com/Solar-Eclipses/1999-Turkey-Hasankeyf)

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ctulek
The story is very important and thanks to NY Times for covering it. However,
calling it "Turkish" history is a few thousand years short.

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aib
Yes; about 11 of them, according to the article itself. Though I assume they
meant "Turkish" as in belonging to the land, Turkey, not the nation.

12,000 years... Older than our planet, according to Young Earth creationism.

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themartorana
Are dam projects ever a good idea? I'm not being flip or sarcastic.

When I think of dams, I think of catastrophic failure which almost always ends
in thousands of deaths. I think of how quickly untended dams will fail. I
think of what kind of target a dam makes. I think of flooding and burying
wilderness and wildlife and even towns like this.

I also think of hydro-electric power and water availability... but aren't
there other ways to tackle those problems?

Are dams ever a good idea?

~~~
tmptmp
I can see a point to what you are saying. Dams can result in 1000s of deaths,
but they already help millions to survive.

>>Are dams ever a good idea?

Yes, I guess, without dams the developed nations would not have been so
developed either in terms of technology and even sociology. Without dams there
won't be cities, without big cities there won't be mixing of different
strata/groups of society.

So, when I think of dams I think of the immense value they provide to humans
and their progress. It's difficult to get rid of dams. What we need is a lot
better technology to ensure their reliability and robustness.

Another reason why we need dams more is: the sheer population increase is
putting a hell lot of pressure on natural resources (including water, of
course) these days as compared to 19th century. So we must address this issue
also.

Also, the increasing consumerism should be restricted/reduced. The mindless
consumerism is also adding to this pressure.

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virmundi
To take issue with your later points: a lot of resource pressure is due to
humans being to stupid to not throw away their resources. Take California for
instance. They have two really big environmental issues: drought and fires. LA
purposely diverted rain water to the sea [1]. This meant they didn't resupply
their ground water. Billions of gallons of water effectively lost over the
years. The fires are due, in great part, to poor land management at a state
and federal level [2]. Historically rational loggers cleaned out the forests.
This prevented the type of fires we have now. It also prevented the landslides
because the forest survived fires and kept the soil in place.

All this is not to say that we aren't putting pressure on the environment. It
just goes to show that the pressure we're applying is a result of decades of
arrogance and stupidity.

1 - [https://www.marketplace.org/2016/01/08/world/down-
drain](https://www.marketplace.org/2016/01/08/world/down-drain) 2 -
[http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/16396-bu...](http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/16396-burning-
up-the-west-feds-greens-cause-catastrophic-fires)

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mr_pink
Hate to be that guy, but saying "thousands of years of Turkish history" is
exactly as ignorant as saying "thousands of years of American history"

~~~
pbhjpbhj
America is a group of continents that's been around for many thousands of
years, Turkey is a country that hasn't.

Perhaps you meant USA. Calling people out as ignorant is always dicey IME.

Personally I don't mind the titling of historical situations using modern
geographical designation as long as the head of the section tells me the
historic context.

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desireco42
The thing is that history is not "Turkish" as such. But otherwise important
issue.

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jedilance
I am sorry to see that resistance doesn't stop the dam project. It's a
beautiful heritage but will be gone :(

