
Terra Nullius - tosh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius
======
shadowgovt
Sort of a fascinating aspect of purchasing a home was realizing that within
the territory of the United States, there isn't any unowned land. All land is
owned by either a private entity (person or corporate) or the state or federal
governments. Even the small home I was buying had a chain of custody dating
back to the European conquest of America. And as consequence of that, even if
you walk away from a property, the system still considers it owned by you
until some positive action is taken.

It had never really occurred to me before that you can pile most of your
earthly possessions up in a box somewhere with "PLEASE TAKE" stenciled
sloppily on the side, but you can't really do the same with a plot of land.

~~~
jcranmer
> All land is owned by either a private entity (person or corporate) or the
> state or federal governments.

Don't forget tribal governments.

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dredmorbius
See also, Cory Doctorow, "Terra Nullius":

 _In 1660, John Locke published his Two Treatises of Government, where he set
out to resolve the seeming conflict between individual property rights (which
he valorized) and the Bible (ditto), which set out the principle that God had
created the Earth and its bounty for all of humanity. How could a Christian
claim to own something personally when God had intended for everyone to share
in His creation?..._

[https://locusmag.com/2019/03/cory-doctorow-terra-
nullius/](https://locusmag.com/2019/03/cory-doctorow-terra-nullius/)

~~~
galaxyLogic
Good question. How can somebody own land, what gives them the right to it?
Well they bought the land from someone else, and paid a lot of money for it.
But then how did that someone else acquire the rights to that land?

~~~
Robotbeat
Usually there's theft involved somewhere in the chain. Something goes directly
from indisputably unoccupied land through hundreds of years of honest selling
and buying and inheritance to the present day has got to be the most rare
exception. Can anyone point to an example?

~~~
dredmorbius
Antarctica would likely be the closest approximation, though the real estate
market remains small. Otherwise, small islands in which human habitation is
comparatively recent.

There likely remain properties in Europe which can trace ownership through at
the very least centuries, if not 1000+ years.

Possibly some British Crown posessions.

Iceland.

~~~
cafard
You could look up the US Guano Islands Act.

~~~
dredmorbius
I'm familiar with it. What / how specifically?

Note that taking national possession of an entire island need not necessarily
displace all, or even _any_ , prior / traditional land claims or rights.

My interest at this point is more in _suggesting_ possible places to look than
in claiming "this is definitely where that is the case".

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tosh
via patio11

[https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1186458041975066624](https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1186458041975066624)

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pcwalton
There's a pretty good argument that Bir Tawil isn't really terra nullius. The
right answer to "who owns it" is clearly "Egypt" or "Sudan", depending on the
outcome of the Hala'ib Triangle territory dispute, not "neither".

~~~
astine
Supposedly, people have tried to claim it in the past but have been rebuffed
by both Egypt and Sudan.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/03/welcome-to-
the...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/03/welcome-to-the-land-
that-no-country-wants-bir-tawil)

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topkai22
An interesting supplement to this is that common law based jurisdictions (US,
UK, etc.) still have a legal concept of “Adverse Possession” or “Squatter’s
Rights” which effectively lets people claim land or property which is
abandoned by selling it and improving it, even if there is an existing legal
claim to it.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession)
for the complexities.

~~~
baud147258
And equivalent rights also exists in France, allowing squatters to enter
people's home while they are on holidays, changing the locks and showing proof
of living here (like a bill) and they're very difficult to evict.

