
A cheap, long-lasting, sustainable battery for grid energy storage - jonbaer
http://www.kurzweilai.net/a-cheap-long-lasting-sustainable-battery-for-grid-energy-storage
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Overtonwindow
Now it will remain to be see when and if it will ever come to market. This is
great news but these articles pop up all the time, only for the tech never to
make it to market. It's hard, I know, but maybe one day we will see success.

~~~
Semiapies
Yup. Between irreproducibility and these hype pieces leaving out any downsides
that might keep the discovery/invention from succeeding practically, the
punchline of the title is "...would be nice."

It's a quixotic idea, but I'd like a project that tracked papers cited as big
advances and looked for whether anything ever came of them five and ten years
later.

~~~
nickff
While I agree that holding people accountable for predictions has value, I
think the problem is that columnists and academics do not understand the
difficulties of mass production. Perhaps asking the columnist or academic to
place a cash bet on their technology (against all comers at odds specified by
the predictor) would be a check.

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nl
I'll keep posting this until I see someone else on HN posting it too[1]: Flow
batteries[2] are here now, cheap, and work well. They don't have the power
density of the Tesla batteries, but for residential and light industrial use
they work well.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12376322](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12376322)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery)

~~~
justinsb
Is it cheaper than a Tesla Powerwall? Pricing here seems to suggest it is more
expensive: [https://faq.zcell.com/content/2/10/en-us/what-will-it-
cost-a...](https://faq.zcell.com/content/2/10/en-us/what-will-it-cost-and-
what-is-included-in-that-cost.html)

~~~
nl
I believe about the same. That price is in Australian dollars.

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deweller
What is interesting here are the trade offs. This battery has tech has a
larger size, making it infeasible for consumer electronics. But it promises
better safety, less cost and more cycles.

It has a long way to go from lab to the marketplace. But if it gets there, it
could be a game-changer for home solar and wind applications.

~~~
Shivetya
I am still not sold on the idea of individual home storage and barely sold on
individual solar. With many new subdivisions having set aside space for run
off and green space its not hard to imagine the panel space and storage.
besides easier maintenance and better costs it makes is simpler to design
homes to fit the needs of those buying them. Plus most homes are not situated
ideally for roof solar.

In many cases you could simply extend the area used for pools, tennis courts,
and such. For the most part I think it is just ideally targeted marketing more
than good energy sense to load up each home with panels.

~~~
maxerickson
There's hundreds of thousands of homes that are already built.

Around here, 90% of homes are built with the largest piece of roof facing
South (city is a grid with lots being longer on the East-West dimension).

In most areas it doesn't make a lot of sense to retrofit at current prices,
but it's getting pretty close.

I also think there will be a huge tipping point if/when the cost of solar gets
low enough that installing it to run air conditioning pays off in a modest
number of years.

~~~
mark-r
In my neighborhood, finished in 2000, houses with identical floorplans were
required to have external differences that would keep them from looking
cookie-cutter. One of those differences was in the rooflines. My own roof is
narrowed at the top, reducing the amount of space available for panels.

A neighbor just installed roof panels a month ago, the first I've seen in this
Minnesota city. Their roof is much more rectangular than mine.

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mark-r
There are already alternate rechargeable battery technologies available,
notably lead-acid and nickle-metal-hydride. I wish the article had also
mentioned what advantages this new tech might have over them, rather than
considering Li-ion the only competition.

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gravypod
If you want long lasting, storage, and lifetime where cost and size doesn't
matter then look at AGM batteries. They're great since if they (probably) wont
freeze and shouldn't mind falling over.

I've seen some of these batteries in person. They are huge, heavy, and
expensive buy I've seen many of these last for years and years and years. Many
hams use them to power their car radios.

One distributor of these AGM batteries is this site I found with a bit of
google magic: [https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/rv-
marine/agm/](https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/rv-marine/agm/)

~~~
theandrewbailey
Aren't AGM batteries essentially lead-acid (car batteries)?

~~~
gravypod
Yes, they are deep cycle car batteries. It's perfect for an outdoor solar
install since they don't leak everywhere if they break while also being good
at constant charge and discharging.

If this is incorrect please correct me.

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coryrc
Lithium iron phosphate already costs less than lithium-ion and has 3x real-
life cycle life than claimed theoretical for this battery. (LiFePO4 typically
has 3000 cycles to 80%)

