
3D printer community revolting against Makerbot's new closed-source printer - iamwil
http://marcuswolschon.blogspot.de/2012/09/occupy-thingiverse.html
======
noonespecial
I always found it slightly rotten when businesses use an "open" model to, in
essence, get their fans and customers to build their product and market it for
them, and then close it off for maximum profit once it reaches a certain level
of maturity.

It feels like bait and switch.

~~~
nettdata
I showed my dad the Replicator 2 yesterday, and he's really close to ordering
one.

I also showed him the RepRap, and he was immediately turned off of the idea...
he just wants something easy, polished, and more consumer grade, not "hacker"
grade.

I am a huge fan of Open Source, and have no problems with using Open Source in
a commercial manner (I actually have a commercial software product that uses
some Open Source components), as long as the licenses are being adhered to.

Bri Pettis strikes me as being a solid guy, and I believe his intentions are
honorable, and he will do as he says, and ensure that everything will follow
all the license requirements.

It's understandable that he has to be a bit protective of some aspects of his
products, as I think the big players (Epson, HP, etc) could become a real
threat as soon as they twig to the fact that there's a reasonable market
there.

I can't blame him for trying not give the proprietary aspects of what he's
doing to his competitors, especially when they're 800 lbs gorillas.

I think that balancing the need for protecting your investment and meeting the
requirements of various Open Source licenses is a bit tougher than some
realize. It's not just a case of "release everything to the masses", it can be
quite complicated.

For now, I'm willing to give him (and MakerBot) the benefit of the doubt, and
trust that they'll Do No Evil.

~~~
noonespecial
The "proprietary aspects" of a tiny stepper driven extruder are less than
trivial to the company that created the first mass market laser printer. You
can't fight gorillas with gorilla-ness when you're lemur sized.

The primary asset Makerbot has is the community. Its fine to polish the
product to make it more useful to those less skilled, but lock the community
out of the product by closing up the software and its over. _That_ is exactly
the advantage someone like HP needs. Theirs is going to be just as good or
better eventually with or without Makerbot's suuuper secrets. In the end, the
only differentiator will be community.

~~~
nettdata
True, but I tend to believe that the makeup of the community is a dynamic
thing; it's going to change over time.

To start with, it might be a few of the hard-core early adopter, hacker types
that will help develop the product, but it will eventually move away from that
and become more a straight consumer community. (That's my guess, any way).

For instance, my dad will probably buy one and use it a fair bit for various
projects, but he's not at all someone who'd give anything back to the
"community", other than his cash.

And while it is the initial "hacker" community that will give it some momentum
and critical mass, it's the "cash paying user" community that will really
drive development forward.

$0.02

~~~
kisielk
The fact that some users don't want to contribute to community doesn't mean
it's not worth having it be open. You can still cater to consumers without
closing your product to hackers.

------
thesystemis
here's some links for more info

[http://blog.makezine.com/2012/09/19/is-one-of-our-open-
sourc...](http://blog.makezine.com/2012/09/19/is-one-of-our-open-source-
heroes-going-closed-source/)

[http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/09/20/fixing-
misinformatio...](http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/09/20/fixing-
misinformation-with-information/)

[http://www.hoektronics.com/2012/09/21/makerbot-and-open-
sour...](http://www.hoektronics.com/2012/09/21/makerbot-and-open-source-a-
founder-perspective/)

tom igoe has some sensible words on this:

<http://www.tigoe.net/blog/category/open-innovation/408/>

this is an interesting discussion in advance of this (unfortunately sold out)
conference next week about open source hardware:

<http://summit.oshwa.org/schedule/>

(hopefully they will ustream it)

many of the videos from the last summit are up, btw:

<http://goo.gl/KK8QN>

~~~
nrp
The OSHW Summit is going to be particularly interesting because Josef Prusa,
the designer of the most popular RepRap variant and an opponent of closed
source 3D printing will be giving a talk. A couple of hours later, Bre Pettis,
co-founder of MakerBot is also scheduled to give a talk, entitled Challenges
of Open Source Consumer Products.

------
truebecomefalse
I supported Makerbot because of their commitment to the open source software
and hardware community. If that changes then they will lose me as a customer.
I actually paid a premium for their Replicator printer because I believed in
their philosophy. Now that they are funded by a VC it seems they have strayed
from that path. Let's hope they can bring it back. If not I'll go with the
cheaper and more capable alternatives to the Makerbot printers.

------
kanzure
thingiverse scrapers and alternatives are a hot commodity these days, it
seems! Have some toys:

<https://github.com/grevaillot/thingscrap>

<https://github.com/punkmanufacturing/thingiverse-backup>

<http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/thingiverse/bl3dr/>

[https://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/master/clients/thingive...](https://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/master/clients/thingiverse.py)

[http://garyhodgson.com/reprap/2012/09/githubiverse-a-
github-...](http://garyhodgson.com/reprap/2012/09/githubiverse-a-github-pages-
template-for-3d-printing-projects/)

<https://github.com/garyhodgson/githubiverse-template>

[https://plus.google.com/u/0/113539880459449261884/posts/bQmi...](https://plus.google.com/u/0/113539880459449261884/posts/bQmiSNSNfpc)

~~~
iamwil
I've also been working an alternative:

<http://cubehero.com>

It is based on git, and lets you version your models. It also shows a visual
diff in the history of your models.

~~~
jorts
Your product looks awesome. Side note - Your SSL certificate is expired.

~~~
iamwil
Thanks! As for the SSL certs, I saw that yesterday, and I thought I fixed it.
But I'll dig into it further. Thanks for the notice!

Edit: I fixed it. Somehow the intermediate certificate wasn't installed.
Thanks for the notification!

------
mcantelon
Wow. That's really sleazy selling a product, as a traditionally open hardware
company, and not being upfront about it possibly being closed source.

------
aidenn0
IANAL, but my understanding is that in Europe, waivers of moral rights are
non-enforcable.

~~~
TheGateKeeper
since when is keeping something open source a 'moral' so-called "right"?

~~~
regularfry
"Moral right" is a specific legal term.

------
ricardobeat
In many countries (most signatories of the Berne Convention) moral rights are
inalienable. You _can't_ renounce them, regardless of will. That would make
that clause in the TOS unvalid for anyone in these countries.

------
kickKICK
Is MakerBot getting dictated by house of Pettis?

"We are in Brooklyn with client MakerBot. Disclosure: CEO of MakerBot is my
son, Bre Pettis. Join us for a streaming press conference at 3:00 pm EDT at
www.makerbot.com" - from facebook status of BrandSolutions

[http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=49754425358...](http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=497544253589000&id=293536233989804)

Bre admitted that they are one of angel investors and "his folks" on this blog
post last year. [http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2011/08/23/all-star-lineup-
inve...](http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2011/08/23/all-star-lineup-invests-in-
makerbot/)

Something smokes...

~~~
davidandgoliath
That's a rather silly notion -- and kudos to his parents for investing in the
company when given the opportunity along with that massive list of other
entities who ventured onboard.

------
anonymous1974
I was really looking forward to see what makerbot was going to add to the open
source community. It is totally bait and switch. Thank GOD|FSM for individuals
(RepRap, Open Source Ecology, Open PCR, Arduino) that continue to keep their
efforts open and free.

------
gavanwoolery
I think you kind of have to look at it from Makerbot's perspective - they
themselves have invested a lot into the hardware/software (aside from the
community), and other people are already beginning to rip them off (like the
guy who took the exact design and manufactured it in China for his Kickstarter
campaign). I admit, I might be misunderstanding the current situation, but
this is my take on it given what I have learned thus far. I will happily buy
closed-source hardware/software, so long as it is good.

~~~
pbharrin
It's funny, Makerbot actually took the MK7 extruder design from a Chinese 3D
printer (UP!). I'm not saying that what the guy did with the kickstarter
campaign was right, just don't be fooled into thinking Makerbot invented
everything.

~~~
gavanwoolery
Good to know! :)

------
kiba
In the past, I gripped about how their 3D printers becoming unaffordable.
Never mind the fact that it cost 2K dollars. Now it's no longer open source.

I can't point to makerbot industry and say "business don't have to be closed
source in order to make money". I want to be able to say "they make a shitload
of money, while defying the Chinese!"

------
mechagodzilla
I think this is more like Josef Prusa and a couple of angry reprap guys trying
to 'take their ball and go home' than a revolution of some sort.

------
veritas213
this is so silly..so a company now doesnt have the right to try to make money?
are they now "selling out"? silly revolt

~~~
slowpoke
Something being open != you cannot make money with it. This notion is stupid,
false and dishonest.

Besides, I don't think companies have a "right to make money", anyways. That
would lead to government enforced business models and the utter insanity to
which this leads can currently be observed in the copyright industries and
their ongoing fight against free speech.

~~~
kanzure
> Something being open != you cannot make money with it. This notion is
> stupid, false and dishonest.

In fact, open source is the money-making arm of free software.

~~~
slowpoke
That's mostly because those who want to make money don't like to call it "Free
Software". Blame the English language for having only a single widespread word
for "costless" and "libre".

