
Guilds, Ethics, and Software Engineering as one of The Professions - fergie
https://medium.com/@fergiemcdowall/why-isnt-software-engineering-a-profession-68d1900112fc
======
geebee
We're discussing this a lot on HN these days, and I feel like a bit of a
broken record... so I'll summarize quickly: who decides who gets to be a
software engineer and who doesn't? I personally consider software to be far
from the domain of engineering. It's a different field, as different as
actuarial work. Would a math major be allowed to sit for the exam? A CS rather
than SE major? Someone who self-studied very thoroughly?

I also really hate the idea that software "engineering" would become one of
those fields, like law, that largely coerces people into a three year $150k+
degree paths.

Licensing doesn't bother me in theory - the most important thing, I'd say, is
that it remain largely indifferent to how people acquire the knowledge
necessary to take whatever entrance exams exist (like the actuarial field).
They can be very rigorous (they certain are for actuaries), but they must
allow multiple paths that can't be locked down and and converted into brutally
expensive degrees by a cartel of gatekeepers.

I am not confident this could be avoided, and it would be much worse than
nothing.

I also think that michaelochurch wrote a very insightful essay on "clerks" and
why lawyers were historically motivated to "secede" into a profession, with an
analogy to present day software developers. I'm fully aware of everything
around all this, but I do highly recommend finding a cached copy and reading
it, very interesting essay.

~~~
sakopov
I think as software creeps into every part of our lives the industry will be
heavily regulated. And as that becomes the norm, every developer will be
regulated in accordance with the industry standards. This way every software
developer can be held responsible for the awfully stupid shit they do these
days. Look at the IOT industry right now. Look at the security breaches
because of rookie programming mistakes. They keep happening because nobody is
liable and responsible. If you get "Sorry our shit is hacked and your SSN and
credit card numbers are floating all over black market now" email in your
inbox that's pretty much as good as it gets. Sometimes you're not even that
lucky. In the end you get screwed and the company that you trusted with your
data... Well who knows what they're gonna do. They surely don't feel obligated
to disclose anything with you. This is the sad state of our industry.

I don't know if licensing and certification will fix any of this, but I feel
like sooner or later some kind of regulation will be enforced.

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nickthemagicman
Been beating this drum for years. With a revokable license, with objective
quality standards, with specialties, and some sort of objective certifications
for software knowledge.

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dbonillaf
Software Engineering is a degree, not a profession.

~~~
nickthemagicman
Sotware engineers arent professionals?

~~~
throwaway729
The article makes the case that it is not a profession.

~~~
nickthemagicman
Oh I see. That's rediculous. Not only are we professionals it's one of the
hardest professions.

The amount of knowledge it takes to grok a full stack software system is
equivalent to the amount of knowledge a doctor has to know easily.

~~~
fergie
Oh for goodness sake- read the article!

