
ThinkPad X1 Carbon - fiji-flo
http://www3.lenovo.com/ca/en/new-products/ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-5th-Generation/p/22TP2TXX15G
======
Waterluvian
I want to be excited by a _good_ non-Apple laptop. But they're all just so
terribly designed. They're always some sort of plastic, feel flimsy and bendy,
have grills and screw holes and uneven surfaces and stickers everywhere.

I had a T530 for a few years at my first job and just hated it. It had
fantastic specs but it felt awful and unreliable and like I had to babysit it.
I got a 2015 MBP to replace it after IT damaged it (broke off a bunch of
plastic bits from two grills) and while it was a migraine getting Windows and
Ubuntu to dual boot, I don't think twice when closing the lid and slipping it
into my backpack to go home. Tossing my backpack into my trunk, or in the
overhead carry-on.

I would pay a fortune to have a solid chassis (not case) metal non-Apple
laptop available.

~~~
josteink
> They're always some sort of plastic, feel flimsy and bendy

The Carbon X1 is made from carbon fiber. It super-robust and light-weight at
the same time.

It feels _light years_ ahead of the super-heavy aluminium-nonsense Apple is
trying to peddle. Count me happy my laptop doesn't double as a bench-press.

~~~
old-gregg
When we got accepted into YCombinator back in 2011 (Mailgun), I remember PG
looking at our Thinkpads running Linux and asking something along the lines of
_" what's wrong with you?"_, with almost [1] all YC teams using Macbooks.

I wonder if it's the Valley culture? There is no way a Macbook can compete
with a proper Thinkpad [2] for programmer productivity: the keyboard, the
UltraNav, the swappable batteries (you can fly around the world with a x260 +
spare battery), a nice docking station, upgradeable storage/memory and a
trouble-free Linux distro. Plus, they don't burn you with ice-cold aluminum
every morning.

The gap is huge! If a Thinkpad is a 100, the prev. gen Macbook Pro would be 60
and everything else lingering in misery under 10.

Full disclosure: I am 100% Macbook right now because Photoshop/Sketch, the
struggle is real, I miss everything about Thinkpad, hence this passionate
comment.

    
    
      [1] Another 100% Linux, 100% Thinkpad company was http://www.acunote.com 
      [2] Properly configured, i.e. IPS, Intel graphics, etc.

~~~
amiga-workbench
I don't understand it either, the thing that always gets me is most developers
setting up vagrant on their Mac just to get a working environment.

Cut the bullshit and just run Linux on the bare metal, your program will run
faster, and your laptop battery life won't be halved.

You will have to claw my x201 out of my cold dead hands, I've not found a
single notebook (even the newer ThinkPads) that are as comfortable to use.
I've got no crummy trackpad wasting space and a 16:10 display that's designed
for work, and not watching cat videos.

Spare parts are dirt cheap, and since the magnesium alloy rollcage is on the
inside I don't have to worry about ugly dents, I just swap plastic panels out
on the cheap when I think they are getting a bit too worn.

~~~
tvon
> _(...) most developers setting up vagrant on their Mac just to get a working
> environment._

What kind of working environment requires setting up Vagrant on OSX? It's a
Unix-based OS, if you're doing any web development you can do it on the host
system.

~~~
amiga-workbench
You generally develop on the platform that your software will end up running
on, and nobody in their right mind uses OSX on a server.

~~~
Const-me
If you have a SaaS product that needs 3D rendering on the server, Windows and
Linux servers that have a GPU are targeted towards GPGPU and are expensive to
rent.

MacPros have two descent AMD FirePro GPUs but much cheaper to rent.

------
rcarmo
I was assigned one of these (the 2015 model) as my office laptop, and I hate
the thing for five reasons (two dealbreakers on top):

\- It is huge and unwieldy, like a cafeteria tray (and comes with a sizable
power brick)

\- The touchscreen doesn't have an oleophobic coating, so it becomes a smudgy
mess within hours (unlike my iPad, which looks pristine for weeks despite
being even more heavily used)

\- The screen seems dim or washed out no matter what I try (then again, I have
a retina MacBook at home...)

\- Battery life is poor(ish) on the i7 model. I can only partially blame all
the corporate junk we have installed.

\- Wi-Fi seemed flakey at times (and you need a proprietary dongle for
Ethernet)

I've seen the 2016 models (which don't improve on the above) and they share
the good bits:

\- Very decent (if somewhat mushy) keyboard, with lots of travel (perhaps a
bit too much)

\- Relatively lightweight (considering the size)

\- Pretty decent touchpad (not on a par with a MacBook, but good enough for
three-finger gestures, although maddeningly imprecise at times)

\- Despite the color/brightness issues, the HIDPI screen is sharp and readable
under Windows 10

\- The fingerprint sensor actually works (but doesn't hold a candle to
TouchID)

\- DisplayPort or HDMI output (depending on model, mine has both, and I use my
Apple dongle for DP->VGA)

I disabled TrackPoint within a month due to RSI (I used original IBM laptops
for years and it was a recurring issue for me).

TrackPoint is much more precise than the trackpad for accurate positioning,
but I'd rather carry a Bluetooth mouse and retain the use of my fingers
(whereas I'm perfectly fine with the Mac trackpad for drawing diagrams and
pixel-level positioning).

Edit: Oh, and I run Linux on it through Hyper-V and Docker, since I need to
run Windows 10. Had no trouble booting a couple of Ubuntu/Elementary Live USB
drives for playing around, most of the hardware seemed to work.

~~~
zzleeper
Sorry, being an owner of the 2015 version, I don't know what the fuck are you
talking about:

\- The brick is tiny. Sure, not as tiny as the 50 gram mac one, but is very
small compared to most laptop bricks.

\- It's huge? Some peope want more screen real estate, and 14in is good for
that.

\- Battery life is 6+ hours; less if I spend them watching youtube of course

\- Never had a problem with WiFi

The only thing I agree is with the ethernet dongle (which I have only actually
used once, when setting up the wifi at a new place).

~~~
Orangeair
I own this laptop too, and I agree with you. I would add a few complaints of
my own, though:

\- The computer sometimes seems to turn on after it's closed and asleep in my
bag

\- The CPU gets pegged constantly, even on the i7 version (admittedly, this
may be due to some background processes that were installed by my employer,
but sometimes in task manager it just seems like a generic Windows process it
taking up all of the CPU, so it's hard to tell).

\- The fn key placement is awful. Seriously, I think Apple started this trend,
and I wish other manufacturers would stop following it. Years of muscle memory
have trained me to put my pinky in the bottom, left-hand corner of the
keyboard for ctrl. At least you can change this in the BIOS on this computer,
unlike a Mac, but that's still less than ideal.

~~~
berberous
On the CPU being pegged, I have bothered my IT department to death over the
same thing on my X1 Carbon. If you download Process Explorer, I would bet it's
CSCService that's causing the issue. If so, the culprit is likely the Windows
"Offline Files" feature which lets your IT department sync your laptop files
with the corporate network every so often. My IT department has failed to fix
the issue, though, so yours may be unable to find a fix. For a while, I just
messed with the power setting on my laptop in order to never allow the CPU to
be fully utilized so that the fan noises were not insufferable.

------
itaysk
I have recently upgraded form 4 year old X1 Carbon to new X1 Yoga. Bottom line
is I'd recommend the X1 Yoga over the Carbon.

Here is my original X1 Carbon review:
[http://blog.itaysk.com/2013/05/04/lenovo-x1-carbon-touch-
rev...](http://blog.itaysk.com/2013/05/04/lenovo-x1-carbon-touch-review) And
here are my thoughts on the X1 Yoga: [http://blog.itaysk.com/2016/12/30/from-
lenovo-x1-carbon-to-l...](http://blog.itaysk.com/2016/12/30/from-
lenovo-x1-carbon-to-lenovo-x1-yoga)

~~~
aiur3la

        High DPI is still half baked in Windows. 
    
    

I found this comment hilarious given who your employer is...

~~~
itaysk
Just to be clear - I do work for Microsoft, but have nothing to do with
Windows, so I don't have any influence on it.

I don't find any problem criticising what's wrong and commending what's right.
I do that openly with "my employer" products, and the competition as well.

------
joecool1029
A large chunk of the Thinkpad user community is pretty fed up with the
ultrabook spec that Lenovo is shipping on its flagship models, namely the
inability to effectively customize and modify to use. I keep an X201 alongside
my late 2013 rMBP simply because I can use expresscard and a dock and ethernet
without carrying around a stupid dongle. I understand they are trying to chase
Apple's market, but expect them to fall flat with products like this. I can
stand to have a few extra mm of thickness to actually have a usable product.

51nb (chinese forum) has been addressing the need for upgraded specs in the
old chassis with things like their Thinkpad X62
[https://imgur.com/a/As6On#uHTzOer](https://imgur.com/a/As6On#uHTzOer) (you
can find the boards on ebay)

There's no products that fit the old ultraportable form factor. The T5xx
series is great but can't be lugged around easily.

~~~
floatboth
X240/X250: dock, Ethernet, VGA, SD, optionally smartcard and mobile modem. No
dongles required. In X260 they replaced VGA with HDMI, but everything else is
still there.

The X62 looks nice though :D

------
sigil
My Thinkpad X1 Carbon 2nd gen is still going strong 3 years later, but this
5th gen is pretty tempting.

 _Main questions:_

\- Are these "up to 15.5 hours of battery life" numbers purely theoretical?
Even brand new, my 2nd gen only got about 6 hours of normal usage. I run
Ubuntu so maybe these power saving tweaks are the result of closer hardware
integration with Windows?

\- The mobile broadband option (Qualcomm Snapdragon X7) is intriguing, it
would save me carrying around a separate hotspot. Has this worked for any
Linux users? What carrier do you recommend?

\- Any reports of the Wigig Dock working on Linux?

 _Pros that I can see:_

\- Real function keys! The adaptive touchpad on my 2nd gen is awkward and
silly -- can't believe Apple followed their lead on this. Good riddance.

\- That the 5th gen is even smaller and lighter boggles the mind. My 2nd gen
is already ridiculously thin. After 5 years of hauling 5-8lb T4x models around
NYC my back was killing me, and I was probably on the verge of permanent
physical injury. The X1 was a godsend.

\- Same old Trackpoint I know and love. Not for everyone, but a mouse on the
home row + vim is ergonomic heaven for me. Never change, Thinkpads!

 _Cons that I can see:_

\- Looks like almost the same display as my 2nd gen, a 2560x1440 WQHD IPS. A
small bump up in nits but that's it. Viewing angles are better than on older
laptops, but I still can't read my screen in bright environments, and it gets
gummed up with debris and smudges way too easily. Apple continues to dominate
in this dimension.

\- Matter of taste, but the Silver design feels like Lenovo is trying way too
hard to look Apple-y.

~~~
vbernat
I can't say anything about this specific Qualcomm, but I have used Qualcomm
Gobi 2000 and Sierra EM7345 in previous generations of Thinkpad. They both
work fine with Linux but their firmwares were buggy as hell. You have to
upgrade them as soon as possible. All the problems I ever had were finally
solved by upgrading those firmwares. This usually mean you need to keep
Windows for that.

~~~
sigil
Good to know, thanks!

------
dgl
They really should write that it has USB-C charging in bigger letters (see
[http://www3.lenovo.com/medias/ww-lenovo-laptop-
thinkpad-x1-c...](http://www3.lenovo.com/medias/ww-lenovo-laptop-
thinkpad-x1-carbon5-gallery-5.png?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8MTc5Njd8aW1hZ2UvcG5nfGhlZS9oZDIvOTM1NzAyNzM3NzE4Mi5wbmd8ZTAyMDM1NTY4OGVmOGI1MjhiNGZjMTZjOTlkMTJkOWViZDVmODkwNWM0M2VjMjBhNzljNDRjODIwOWNhZWU2Zg)
for the evidence).

~~~
imglorp
Is that USB-C fully compatible with the new MBP one?

~~~
BHSPitMonkey
It'll be grossly non-compliant with the USB spec if not, but the thing you
have to take into consideration is the wattage. Apple likes to provide
basically the weakest charger it can get away with based on how much power a
particular Macbook model will draw while in use. I believe it's a 29W for the
Air, 61W for the 13" MBP, and 87W for the 15" MBP. So while you can
technically use any charger with any machine, if your machine draws more than
the charger then it won't be able to keep up while you're working (plus,
running the device at a charging deficit like this will wreak havoc on the
battery).

------
piker
Has anyone installed Linux on this machine? If so, how has your experience
been with respect to driver support, etc.? Thanks in advance.

~~~
sparrish
I've got a 2016 model and things work pretty well with Ubuntu 16.10. Only
gripe I have is bluetooth audio isn't working out-of-the-box.

~~~
DrScump
What about inexpensive USB plug-in Bluetooth adapters?

~~~
jmiserez
There are some that just show up as an audio USB device, which is pretty nice.
I have this one, been using it with Ubuntu 14.04 on my W520 Thinkpad:

[https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-BTD-500-Bluetooth-
Dongle/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-BTD-500-Bluetooth-
Dongle/dp/B007C4D6A8)

It does voice too, but looking at the reviews it seems that some other people
have headphone compatibility issues. Definitely try before you buy.

------
daxorid
354 comments for a constantly-refreshing 404 page( "Product 22TP2TXX15G does
not exist" )? Is anyone actually following the link or just commenting on the
title?

~~~
wklock
try:
[http://www3.lenovo.com/ca/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/Thi...](http://www3.lenovo.com/ca/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-4th-
Gen/p/22TP2TXX14G)

~~~
slowmovintarget
That points to the 4th gen X1 Carbon, whereas the link for the story seems to
be about a 5th gen X1 Carbon (which now returns a 404). Lenovo may have
inadvertently leaked that page onto their site without intending for it to be
reachable yet.

------
tbrock
This looks like a very nice computer.

I really applaud dell for trying to make the XPS 13 somewhat Linux friendly
but they really do feel cheap.

Lenovo thinkpads, while not having the quality they had during the IBM era,
are still head and shoulders above Dell in this regard.

This is the Linux laptop to get in 2017.

~~~
tannhaeuser
When I bought my notebook back in february, I went to a shop (cyberport) that
had both the (then current) X1 carbon and the XPS 13 on display, which I
figured were the only ones acceptable for developers.

The X1's keyboard was larger, had more key travel and all, but was
subjectively somewhat less comfortable to type on (matter of get using to, I
suppose, but still).

The X1 had a much worse display, and was overall bulkier and clunkier, yet
more expensive. Went with the Dell and didn't regret it.

Edit: running Ubuntu on it

~~~
s_kilk
Any issues with Ubuntu? or did it all just work out of the box?

I'm really interested in the XPS 13/15, but don't want to end up with a brick.

~~~
seanp2k2
XPS 15 9550 here. Got mine on eBay for ~$1k with no SSD. Mine has the
i7-6700HQ, 4K IGZO touchscreen, bigger battery (which takes up the 2.5" SSD
space, so M.2 SSD only which is fine by me), and GTX 960. Follow
[http://seb.mamessier.com/dell-
xps-15-9550-ubuntu-16-04/](http://seb.mamessier.com/dell-
xps-15-9550-ubuntu-16-04/) \+
[http://malachisoord.com/2016/09/10/xps-15-9550-ubuntu-
setup/](http://malachisoord.com/2016/09/10/xps-15-9550-ubuntu-setup/) and it's
OK. Graphics switching doesn't work flawlessly. Powertop requires some messing
about to get the fans to totally stop. Battery life is worse than under
Windows. Palm detection on the touchpad is wonky and requires blacklisting a
kernel mod to get working properly (the touchpad shows up as two devices). My
keyboard had a cable under the spacebar not properly glued down, so I had to
get a replacement KBD (~$15 on ebay, parts are readily available). Plextor
M8Pe works fine but I had to mess with the BIOS a bit to get the UEFI boot
stuff working correctly. Wifi works fine. Bluetooth works as well as it does
on Windows, which is to say not that well, but I don't think it's the fault of
the hardware or Ubuntu. Configuring X to play nice with the proprietary
drivers + power settings + stupid Synaptic touchpad daemon + graphics
switching + Arc theme took a few days to get more or less working.

The screen is also terrific and very noticeably better than my work mid-2014
15" rMBP. I wouldn't have optioned the touchscreen if I had a choice, but the
4K IGZO is only available as a touchscreen. I actually use it sometimes, and
the hinge is good enough that it doesn't flop around and it feels solid when
tapping on it. I only really use that for casual browsing.

My past few personal laptops have been Dell Latitudes since they're typically
made from metal and have nicer parts (keyboard, hinges, touchpad, etc) than
stuff like the Inspiron series. Parts are cheap and easy to find (e.g. an
extra power adapter is $35 shipped in bulk packaging) and they're generally
easy to repair, with repair guides, service manuals, and Dell's great service
code look-up readily available. If it blows a motherboard or drains a battery
tomorrow, I know that I can keep it running for relatively little money. Dell
also has great business warranties if you can find a used one with a year or
so of warranty left.

TL;DR it's still a huge PITA to get even the latest Ubuntu working right with
a top-of-the-line Windows laptop, and even then it's less nice and doesn't
"just work" as well as a Mac, but I paid about 1/3rd of what a comparable MBP
would cost, and since it's just a personal laptop for my side projects and
electronics hobby stuff (microcontrollers, audio measurement, open source,
etc) it's totally fine.

~~~
s_kilk
Interesting, thanks!

It seems like a lot of effort. I think I may just snap up a 2014 MBP and
install Ubuntu on that.

------
reustle
As someone who is constantly on the road, having a built in sim card for
connectivity is something I'm super excited about. This could be the 2016 MBP
we wanted, but switching to windows still sounds difficult.

~~~
stuckagain
Why do you find that better than tethering to a phone? The last thing I want
is a separate mobile account for my laptop.

~~~
xur17
I have a 4th generation x1 carbon, and having a built in sim card is way
nicer. With 2 clicks I can connect to 4g vs getting my phone out, turning
tethering on, and then connecting to my hotspot. (Not to mention the extra
battery drain from tethering).

Project Fi allows you to add extra data sims for free, so the cost is the same
as tethering.

~~~
stuckagain
Here is why I don't like mobile data peripherals on laptops: it causes the
software to firm incorrect beliefs about the link state. With a mobile modem
the OS will decide the link has gone down, and sever all connections. With
wifi tethering the laptop has no idea what the link state on the phone might
be, so it rides out brief loss of signal events.

Small but important difference in my opinion.

~~~
seanp2k2
Not saying you're wrong, but I was pleasantly surprised that I only had to
plug my iPhone 6S+ in via USB and it just showed up as an additional network
connection and "just worked" in Ubuntu 16.10. I've never had an easier
tethering experience. FWIW it also did not work at all over Bluetooth
(couldn't even see my phone).

------
arcaster
I absolutely adore my ThinkPad X201, if there was any way to purchase a
pristine new-in-box X201 I would. However, I recently picked up a 3rd gen x1
carbon and absolutely love it compared to my rMBP '15\. Sure, it's not quite
as fast and the screen isn't quite as good, but I can run a true tiling window
manager (not the garbage that is KWM on OSX) and have a unfettered dev
platform.

I run Fedora, I like it more than Ubuntu or Debian and like the fact that I
don't have to worry about random underlying features breaking all the time
when I update (which wasted a ton of my time when I was using Arch Linux).

~~~
Ar-Curunir
I'm sure you can run a decent Linux on MBP; I've been running Arch on my MBP
for 2.5 yrs now, and it's been great, bar a couple of hiccups. In fact
currently it works better than MacOS; MacOS refuses to wake up after shutting
the lid.

------
KaoruAoiShiho
Why is the webdesign so amateurish. I really don't understand these companies
that can't put proper priority on having webpages that look really good and
luxurious. Spend millions on great industrial design but can't spend the
thousands for a decent sales page.

~~~
jmiserez
That was my first thought as well. The page just looks awful, even more so on
mobile.

------
faragon
It is almost perfect. I would love real 4 core i7 with 8MB L3 cache CPU for
laptops, instead of the 2 core (4 threads) with 4MB.

Edit: 6th generation of mobile Intel CPUs have models with 4 cores and 8MB of
L3 cache (i7-6970HQ), using 45W [1]. However, in 7th generation there are only
2-core models [2].

[1] [http://ark.intel.com/products/family/88392/6th-Generation-
In...](http://ark.intel.com/products/family/88392/6th-Generation-Intel-
Core-i7-Processors#@Mobile)

[2] [http://ark.intel.com/products/family/95544/7th-Generation-
In...](http://ark.intel.com/products/family/95544/7th-Generation-Intel-
Core-i7-Processors#@Mobile)

~~~
ylk
They'll have the 4C model in the T470p

[http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Classic-ThinkPad-
models-...](http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Classic-ThinkPad-models-with-
Kaby-Lake-announced-T470-T570-T470s-T470p-L470-L570.189047.0.html)

~~~
faragon
Thank you! :-D

------
jaymoorthi
All it shows me when I try to view models or customize is a message saying no
models are available at this time.

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/nymnxfm8xmdcl0s/Screenshot%202016-...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/nymnxfm8xmdcl0s/Screenshot%202016-12-30%2011.18.45.png?dl=0)

I don't see a 5th-generation listing under Lenovo's products pages. Does
anyone know what the release date will be?

Edit: closest hit I can find is a rumored launch at CES in a few weeks --
[http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/leaked-new-lenovo-
thinkpa...](http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/leaked-new-lenovo-
thinkpad-x1-carbon-2017-coming-january)

~~~
gbrown_
> Does anyone know what the release date will be?

CES is next week, we'll likely get more details then, shipping products are
still likely a few months out.

------
schmichael
Ubuntu on a ThinkPad X1 Carbon is my workstation. As a Go developer I only
need Chrome, a terminal, and Go itself (which I install from the official
tarball binaries).

Now that I have Google Fi I'm kicking myself for not getting the cell radio
builtin as Google will send you a data only SIM for free! I would never have
to deal with another terrible airport or hotel captive portal again!

My coworkers are all Macbook Pro users and ask why I don't get one too. I just
don't see the point. I think MBP's build quality is nicer but otherwise I get
twice the machine for the same price and get to develop on the same OS as my
project primarily targets (Linux).

~~~
mjolk
> Now that I have Google Fi I'm kicking myself for not getting the cell radio
> builtin as Google will send you a data only SIM for free!

Oh, I forgot Fi would send us this, thanks!

> I think MBP's build quality is nicer but otherwise I get twice the machine
> for the same price and get to develop on the same OS as my project primarily
> targets (Linux).

I just looked at the X1 carbon specs and my 3 year old MacBook Air is faster
than the base model carbon and I spent about the same amount of money.

The build quality is huge for me as I spend 50+ hours a week directly-on or
with peripherals cabled to my laptop. If I wanted, I could install a Linux on
it, but really, OS X just works without having to fuss with it (e.g. trying to
get the touchpad feel anywhere near as nice).

As for writing Go, isn't cross-compilation pretty good? I spend most of my
time writing in VHLLs (js, python, etc) and OS X is (still, even after some
iOS-direction changes) quite good as a dev environment -- spinning up a VM for
when I need to compile something lower-level and test on a target OS is
trivial.

~~~
schmichael
> As for writing Go, isn't cross-compilation pretty good?

Go's cross-compilation is near perfection _unless_ you use cgo which needs to
use a C compiler to link against native libraries. Then you need all of the
normal tools and libraries for cross-compiling C; Go just puts a decent on it.

~~~
mjolk
Ah, cool. My workflow is essentially "write Python until it's too slow, then
profile and write C," so maybe it's time I move to a Go/C approach.

------
karpodiem
It's not the sexiest laptop in the world, but my work Dell Latitude 7470 with
an I7 6600U, 16GB DDR4 RAM, NVMe drive with a 1920x1080 screen is the best PC
laptop I've used. Works great with the Dell dock, where I have two Ultrasharp
21.5 inch monitors in 1080p, with the laptop screen flipped open; three usable
screens.

I still (slightly) prefer my Mid-2014 13 inch Macbook Pro though, but it's
very close.

------
nfoz
They didn't fully learn the lesson of the Superfish fiasco:

"X1 Carbon is available with Microsoft Windows 10 Pro Signature Edition. No
more trialware or unwanted apps. No more distractions—and easy provisioning
for IT pros."

So do that with every version, and stop feeding people "unwanted apps"
altogether. You just admitted that nobody wants them, and this irresponsible
attitude is exactly why you got bopped for pre-installing the Superfish MITM
malware.

~~~
mynameisvlad
"Signature Edition" is a Microsoft concept, not a Lenovo one. [0]

And there will always be trialware and unwanted apps as long as the company
gets money from including these. Because who doesn't want free money?

[0]:
[https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signatu...](https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-
Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600)

~~~
masklinn
You're missing the point. Yes Signature Edition is an unadulterated Windows
install, nfoz is asking why they're selling anything else given "nobody wants
them, and this irresponsible attitude is exactly why you got bopped for pre-
installing the Superfish MITM malware"

~~~
mynameisvlad
Yes, to which I replied "Because who doesn't want free money?"

Companies don't give a shit as to who wants them or who doesn't, because they
get free money for each install that includes the bloatware, and that's all
that they _really_ care about; maximizing the profits.

Microsoft's profits are probably negatively impacted by the bloatware in the
form of a bad experience, and probably pays the OEM some amount to offset the
removal (I don't work in sales, I have no idea how those deals are made or
what they contain) so that users have a better experience with Windows.

OEMs can choose to go that route, or not, and the reason why most computers
are not is that they probably get more money from having the bloatware in
there; otherwise, we'd see Signature Edition as the default.

------
vxxzy
I have the 2016 model running Arch Linux. The machine is a great piece of
engineering. Light as a feather, and feels durable. The carbon fiber body
feels great in hand. Performance wise, I have the i7 model 16G RAM and 512GB
NVMe SSD. The only slight negative would be battery life. I expected more, but
it does last me a full 8hr day of work with screen dimmed. I'm looking forward
to purchasing new in another year or so.

------
desireco42
I think it is super important to have honest discussion between developers,
with as little flame possible about machines we are using.

I am using 5 yr old Macbook Air for development, it works well. I always
imagined that I will use ThinkPad /w some Linux distribution in future. It is
not trivial to use Linux on your laptop. While a lot of things will be faster,
browser most likely will be slower and there will not be as many tools. What I
would mostly miss is photography tools, Lightroom is essential for processing
photos. I can't not do it.

Let me add one more thing to this fairly random post :). I think X1 is better
then Macbooks and Airs at the moment, docking station makes a lot of
difference.

~~~
aiur3la
Writing this from a Lenovo X1 running Linux...

The keyboard is great so if you do a lot of writing (e.g. you are a developer)
this is a very good machine. But if you are doing other stuff then maybe this
is not the machine for you.

With that said, checkout darktable
([http://www.darktable.org/](http://www.darktable.org/) ) which was discussed
a few days ago on HN.

~~~
desireco42
Thank you. It is good but can't replace Lightroom. However, there are ways to
go around it and I am thinking it through. I can leave one Mac or do dual boot
for Win for Lightroom and few games I can't have on Linux.

Again, thank you for reference.

------
lobster_johnson
As someone who is considering moving from a MacBook Pro 2015 to a Linux
laptop, the keyboard and, in particular, the trackpad on PC models are the
biggest disappointments. Apple has spent so much effort on the tactility of
their laptops, while PC manufacturers still seem to be stuck in an earlier
decade. I was a little bit shocked to discover that Thinkpads still have that
terrible little mouse nipple, which I hadn't seen in about 10 years.

The laptop with the most promising keyboard/trackpad combo, that I have found,
is the Dell XPS (it has physical trackpad buttons, but at least they're
located at the bottom), which is probably not accidental; it looks a lot like
a MacBook, too.

~~~
joshyeager
Counterpoint: I still use only Thinkpads _because_ they have TrackPoint. For
those of us who prefer it, it is vastly superior to trackpads.

~~~
rodgerd
Toshiba have it as an option on their keyboards.

~~~
aiur3la
is it as good as the ones on the thinkpads?

------
dchuk
I desperately want exactly this in a Macbook Pro: "The X1 Carbon delivers up
to 15.5 hours of battery life. And if you’re running low, the rapid charging
feature provides 80% capacity in just an hour."

Specifically the rapid charging. Hell I'd be fine with current battery life
(6-10 hrs depending on usage) if it could recharge fast.

Same goes for the phones.

~~~
SomeHacker44
I just desperately want a full 88 key keyboard in a top spec MacBook Pro.

------
walrus01
Love the Thinkpad hardware. Hate Windows 10.

If something like the current generation Thinkpad hardware (T or X series)
could run OSX, it would be what the Macbook Pro used to be... Remember the
first generation Intel macbook pro in 2006 which had a full complement of
ports? Everything relevant and needed except RS232.

------
stuaxo
Now need to wait until Linux is installable on it.

~~~
joatmon-snoo
Thinkpads are designed to support both Windows and Linux. Dunno what you're
saying.

~~~
berdario
Thinkpads are not better than other laptops when it comes to Linux support.

Just look at the broadcom wifi chipsets: if you mistakenly buy a thinkpad with
one directly from their website (and they _obviously_ don't advertise it as
such when configuring the hardware), and then ask their support to get it
fixed/changed (even on your own dime) they'll just stonewall you. Once they
got money out of your pocket, you mean nothing for them.

The only solution is to buy a supported (intel chipset, for the wifi) FRU
aftermarket (and good luck finding it, since Lenovo's support won't tell you
that information).

At least, with a Dell or a Chromebook I have a recurse if the hardware they
sold me has incompatibilities with the Linux version they shipped it with

Moreover: I won't support a company with such an horrible and embarrassing
security track record as lenovo

~~~
joatmon-snoo
Ah. I guess personally this is less of an issue because I stick to after
market laptops, not new ones, and I know where to look to replace stuff like
the WiFi module (had no idea Broadcom chipsets didn't have Linux drivers).
Can't justify the price.

On the security point, SuperFish was on a different product line - Ideapads,
Lenovo's consumer line (with quality that parallels Dell's consumer stuff) -
and I would have no trouble believing that some idiot SVP in the chain of
command who had nothing to do with Thinkpads made that decision.

For me it's honestly the TrackPoint and the modularity of the laptops. There's
just nothing else out there that comes close to what Lenovo figured out 10
years ago, unfortunately.

~~~
berdario
> had no idea Broadcom chipsets didn't have Linux drivers

Actually, it was a Realtek chipset (I'm not currently using that laptop, so I
remembered incorrectly). The driver was available, but it was severely
unstable, dropping connections and packets, and even triggering kernel panics
a few times (once it even happened during a coding interview!)

> On the security point, SuperFish was on a different product line

Unfortunately, SuperFish was not the only fiasco that Lenovo plagued its
devices with:

[http://thehackernews.com/2015/09/lenovo-laptop-
virus.html](http://thehackernews.com/2015/09/lenovo-laptop-virus.html)

[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenov...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenovo-
busted-stealthily-installing-crapware-via-bios-fresh-windows-installs.shtml)

------
hughes
Still running my 2012 x1 carbon... One thing that has kept it going is that
it's very serviceable. I hope the new model is as friendly towards component
replacement, as I've had to swap out the DC power harness and cooling assembly
so far.

------
bluedino
I owned a first generation X1 for a while. Eventually sold it because it only
had 4GB of RAM, and there is not much of a source of the proprietary SSD. The
battery was down to 3 hours, and I wasn't going to replace it if I couldn't
put at least 8GB/512GB into it.

I really liked the Lenovo X1. From 2012 to now I've went from the MacBook Pro
to MacBook Air and now the MacBook Pro Retina. With the Lenovo, the touchpad
wasn't quite as good, the power adapter wasn't quite as compact, the battery
life wasn't quite as good (but all were good enough).

The screen and keyboard were very good. The trackpoint is a nice addition. The
Mini DisplayPort worked with my 27" Apple Cinema Display without issues in
both Windows and Linux (Ubuntu worked perfectly BTW). Build quality on the
machine was great. Didn't run hot or anything, had all the ports that my Mac
did.

Later on they sabotaged the function key row and ruined the touchpad. After a
year of customer complaints they put it back, but the things were so expensive
I just stuck with a Mac. If I needed a Windows/Linux machine however, they
would be my first choice.

~~~
aiur3la
The first gen X1 came with 8GB of RAM and standard SATA interface (is was
quite bulky for that very reason).

Maybe you are thinking of some other device?

~~~
bluedino
I was speaking of the X1 Carbon - which the article is talking about

------
LinuxFreedom
Please support the idea of building a better planet for our children and do
not buy laptops where you can not replace the battery - managers in companies
that build these kind of products have to learn that they are acting against
human interests and need to change their way of thinking.

Of course this applies to all Laptops where you can not change battery.

Thanks and have a better 2017!

~~~
sprash
It is fairly easy to replace the battery. All you need is a screwdriver.

~~~
LinuxFreedom
Ok, that makes it much better - I had the impression that the battery is
soldered or fixed in a more anti-hackable way, but just a few srews are ok!
Hopefully they keep that design!

------
c2h5oh
I wish HQ CPUs were an option (quad not dual core) - I work primarily with
compiled languages.

I wish they ditched SATA option for m.2 only and used the extra space for more
battery (or cooling for HQ cpu)

------
harry8
Asus ZenBook working well for me with linux for the last 3 years. I've always
had good linux support from thinkpads too. The Asus replaced an apple macbook
pro, the model where apple shipped broken GPUs and didn't recall, so that one
is a very expensive web-browser that constantly panics and reboots, giving me
the opportunity to write a sentence to apple about how I feel about their
miserable company that I'm sure nobody will ever read. "The Donald Trump of
Computing Companies." Apple really are amazing though. Top comment is an apple
fan boy desperate to continue to believe in apple and affronted by the
existence of other laptops while other kool-aid drinkers up vote even though
it's got stuff all to do with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon. Probably hasn't even got
an apple logo shaved into his head!

~~~
aiur3la
I love everything about the ASUS laptops expect one thing: the mushi keyboard.
Press the keys in the middle of the laptop and the keyboard flex with as much
as 4-5mm.

------
garrettheaver
As someone looking to replace my 2013 13" MBP this is almost exactly what I
want.

Enough has already been written about the new MBPs and why many of us will no
longer consider them. I've already tried the Kaby Lake Razor Blade Stealth but
returned it due to shocking quality and support issues. I considered the Asus
Zenbook but it has too few ports to be a serious contender and the HP
offerings all have screens with a lower resolution than I want.

I've always avoided Lenovo, party because Apple were building machines I
wanted and partly because my experience of Lenovo to date has been low end
cheaper models which suck. I'm willing to give them a chance at the upper end
with this though. The sooner to market with this the better

------
therealdrag0
I've had the X1 Carbon 3rd gen (Refurbished) for a few years now as my
personal laptop. I don't do much heavy lifting with it, mostly League of
Legends, Counter-strike, and some side programming. But it's my favorite
laptop I've used. The 14" size is perfect for me and I like the feel of the
rest of it. Performs well and didn't break the bank.

(I've always owned windows PCs, though I've used MBP at work for 2 years now,
and have had a MacBook Air that I resold because it was too small and didn't
have a niche to fill after my ultrabook and my ipad.)

------
module0000
I use a thinkpad every day, my current model I'm typing this on is a T460.
It's entirely user-serviceable(all batteries, ram, hdd, etc) by anyone with a
screw driver and the ability to read a manual.

The frame is carbon fiber(according to lenovo), and the outside is matte
plastic. It doesn't bend, creak, or otherwise make me think it's cheap. It
doesn't feel as "solid" as the 15" MBP on my shelf, or the 15" MBP(with touch
bar) on the shelf next to it. And before you ask - work buys all this kit, not
me.

So, in summary...I use one every day(the t460) and it doens't feel cheap.
Compared to the 1st gen X1 carbon(also on my shelf, but not 2nd or 3rd gens),
it feels significantly heavier, but not any more or less sturdy.

------
themihai
The real issue with non-Apple hw is the OS. Linux is great for development but
sucks on pro media/audio support.

------
Friedduck
I don't think I'm alone in saying I'm disappointed by the new MBPs, and also
haven't found a reasonable alternative. I buy for a small office (<100 people)
and it's a constant challenge to find decent quality and performance.

In a city of 5mm I also can't find a brick & mortar store where I could even
evaluate what's on offer. Any place selling laptops these days are all
targeting home users, and sifting through online offerings isn't much better.

Maybe my expectations are unrealistic, but I'm convinced we've taken a step
backward in the last year or so.

------
ElijahLynn
What happened to the Carbon touch? This would be my next computer except it
doesn't have touch. As a developer I use Chrome dev tools emulator with my
Thinkpad W510 to perform touch testing. Plus it is fantastic for annotating
presentations (Ubuntu, Compiz Annotate plugin).

~~~
ElijahLynn
Okay, here we go, 5th generation Thinkpad X1 Carbon just announced at CES
2017. This is a dream machine.

[http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-yo...](http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-yoga)

16GB ram, 14" WQHD OLED Touchscreen (300 nit), 1TB SSD, Intel® Core™ i7 vPro,
Trackpoint (touchstick), retractable keyboard in convertible mode,
rechargeable & dockable pen, WWAN (Project Fi free data only sim), touch
fingerprint (not the swipey kind), Thunderbolt 3, USB-C (docking is amazing
now), WiGig docking.

All starting at 3 lbs. (my W510 is 6 lbs w/extended battery).

Mmmmmmmmm, now that is a sexy machine!!! Only thing better is if it would come
with Ubuntu pre-installed and everything working out of the box.

I am gonna get one of these and install Ubuntu or Apricity on it!

------
imafish
_> Plus we managed to keep the 14" display in a 13" chassis. Now that’s
innovation._

Dell XPS put a 13" display in 12" a chassis and a 15" display in 14" a
chassis.. But a 14" display in a 13" chassis. Now that’s innovation.

------
matt2000
Does Lenovo's history with malware give anyone pause when considering this
laptop?

I'm just interested in general - I'm a Mac owner now, but used to be a happy
thinkpad owner back in the day.

~~~
aiur3la
X1 is business series, I think their "malware" was some analytics they
installed on the cheap consumer laptops.

(not that it makes it any better)

------
fiji-flo
Page is down :/

Here's an image of the page:
[http://imgur.com/szPrPuN](http://imgur.com/szPrPuN)

------
kylebenzle
I spent a year waiting for the Yoga x260 thinking I had found the perfect
machine, after 11 months I am getting ready to send it in for the 3rd time for
a "freezing" trackpad, remedied only by plugging in an external mouse. Also,
lack of Linux support is insane for a company selling a working man's machine
like this, going back to Dell after this :(

------
rzhikharevich
Am I correct that "Signature Edition" means no Linux?

Source:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/53ri0m/warning_micro...](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/53ri0m/warning_microsoft_signature_pc_program_now/)

~~~
colemickens
Read the top comment...

~~~
Aissen
Please do not reference "top comments" as comment order is usually in flux for
a while.

~~~
colemickens
It's a three month old thread.

------
ge96
These look nice, I'm only able to afford like the first generation but I look
forward to buying that.

If only they were fanless.

------
rootme
I have a gen 4 X1 carbon. top 16gb ram 1tb hard drive all in. Is the best
machine from last year.

------
vacri
I have an X1 gen 3, and it has a dongle for the ethernet port. Given the
thickness of it, I don't see how this new gen machine can hold a 'native
rj45'. Perhaps it's one of those hinged ones that opens out?

~~~
vbernat
It's native because it is not over USB. The "dongle" is only a cable to go
from the "mini" RJ45 to the regular one.

~~~
vacri
Ah, thank you. Yes, it's mildly annoying having to carry a dongle around if I
want ethernet, but I've survived so far :)

------
smoyer
I have a second generation X1 Carbon and I absolutely love this computer!

------
n0us
Anyone know if this will have precision touchpad?

------
noobermin
What do these usually go for? Does anyone know?

~~~
joatmon-snoo
[http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...](http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/?menu-
id=thinkpad_x1_carbon_gen_4)

------
rch
> we managed to keep the 14″ display ... in a 13″ chassis. Now that’s
> innovation.

Indeed. I'm not sure what they mean here.

~~~
aaronmdjones
Probably 'a chassis comparable in size to other 13" laptops'.

As in, a smaller screen bezel.

------
gaspoweredcat
id upgrade to one of these in a heartbeat if i could afford to but right now
thats not an option, thankfully my current gen2 x1 carbon is still an
excellent machine that can handle most everything i throw at it

------
coin
The trackpad is off center (to the left), what's up with that?

~~~
rifung
It's centered relative to the keyboard (the middle of the trackpad is below
the 'g' and 'h' keys)

------
mrkoolaid
... But if you drop it won't it still rattle loose?

------
hbcondo714
> WQHD IPS (2560 x 1440) 300 nits

Is this their OLED screen?

~~~
dstaley
No, IPS is a variant of LCD displays.

------
wineisfine
Looks solid. I like the Snapdragon included.

------
ck__
will it bend?

~~~
sparrish
If it's anything like the 2016 model I have, no. It's solid and can take abuse
well.

~~~
ck__
thx. i'm worried a little because this laptop is really thin. especially
compared to lenovo book which is also thin but not as wide as carbon.

------
Roritharr
Only 16GB, no Quad-Core option (i'd take an underclocked one at this point :(
)... i need more threads and ram on the go, why is that not an option outside
of the alienware 13 monstrosity?

~~~
tbrock
You must be trolling. Look at the size of it. The thermals for the quad core
chip don't make sense and they can very likely only fit 16gb of ram.

The T series is what you are looking for.

Try find any laptop of that size with 32gb ram and quad core option. It
doesn't exist.

~~~
Roritharr
Thats my point, it doesn't exist, but for arbitrary reasons. The RAM chips in
an Alienware 13 aren't more or larger than in the X1 Carbon, its just that
they opt-to not offering this. The Intel i7-7500U is capable of driving 32gb,
so there's no limit there, even if I would have to compromise on the quadcore.

But the Thermal Restrictions of the quadcore are imo manageable aswell, as
they only have to dissipate about 20W of heat more at peak. The Alienware 13
mostly needs the additional cooling performance for its beefy graphics
processor, which is not necessary for most dev use-cases.

The smallest T-Series that would fit the bill is the 14 inch ThinkPad T470.
For some reason i cannot fathom the T470s only supports up to 24gb of ram, as
per their press release.

The T470 is needlessly heavy, has more ports than I need and is larger than I
want.

13 inch is my personal maximum, i'd rather have something between 10-12 inch.
I'm lovin the dimensions of my Surface Pro 2, i just need something with a
quad-core and more ram. I can compromise at the quadcore, but it boggles the
mind that theres nothing below 14inch with 32gb. The Alienware 13 is the only
machine that currently fits the bill, but that graphics chip and ridiculous
chassis makes it unnecessary heavy.

~~~
Havoc
>they only have to dissipate about 20W of heat more at peak

That's a hell of a lot of extra heat in a thin laptop. Especially if a big
chunk of the market values silence. An office full of laptops all sounding
like airplanes isn't ideal.

