
Start a side project, says GitHub founder (2008) - dhotson
https://gist.github.com/defunkt/6443
======
rsyring
Just remember, you only have 24 hours in a day. If you start a side project,
who or what will you take that time from? It may or may not be worth it for
you and/or your family.

I also do hiring, not a lot of volume, but a rather rigorous process. I hardly
ever look at someone's GitHub projects or OSS contributions because a) I don't
know how much time they put into that work and productivity is a key metric
for us and b) having our own process means I get just the information I need
without needing to sift through a lot of code that will take me time to become
familiar with. Not arguing this method is best, just that it's a reality that
you can't be sure how many prospective employers will care about side
projects. It worked for the article's author but it may not work for you. So
again, just emphasizing that you should weigh the cost/benefits.

~~~
austincheney
Businesses always claim to value developer productivity, but this is rarely
accurate. Usually it’s the stellar opposite of productive despite what they
claimed during hiring.

Honestly, if they really let me take the gloves off I could easily replace 4-8
other developers. I am not saying that due to arrogance or some delusion. I
just value other qualities than most other developers. Usually it’s not that I
am fast or anything impressive but that the company is a drowning self-licking
ice cream cone. Things get much faster when you get rid of all the framework
bullshit, unnecessary process, and focus purely on business requirements and
smallest possible delivery. Most of the bullshit (the stuff really slowing you
down) that’s in place isn’t there because the business wants it, but because
the developers want it.

These are things you realize when managing a side project because your time is
important to you and the person you answer to is yourself.

What’s super frustrating is how awesome that always sounds in an interview and
how much the hiring team really appreciates those concerns and that level of
honesty. Then once you get the job it’s just the same old slow safety mitten
insanity as everywhere else.

~~~
news_to_me
> Most of the bullshit (the stuff really slowing you down) that’s in place
> isn’t there because the business wants it, but because the developers want
> it.

Do you have examples of this? It sounds contrary to my experience.

~~~
austincheney
Here are some examples:

* spaces versus tabs and then rejecting a code commit because of white space or other draconian rules not related to any business justification.

* Whether or not a code update performs actions in certain ways, such as specified methods over other methods, without a valid business justification. Normally this appears to be some manner of code style rule.

* Rejecting code that uses functions or makes use of lexical scope instead of OOP.

* Rejecting code that doesn't make use of the framework even when that particular existing code file doesn't make use of the framework.

* Rejecting code that bypasses the framework even though it is a new effort in new files, thus no regression, and has supporting tests.

* Rejecting code because the diff is intimidating.

* really long build cycles so that a developer can use their favorite framework or tool

* A minor tiny module that requires a million dependencies sets off a warning or conflict in your code at build time and requires you to dive under the hood even though the problem is exposed from some horrid dependency.

\---

If I thought about this more I am sure I could come up with a bunch more. The
business never comes to you and mandates you use a popular new JavaScript
framework or that the test environment tests for code style and white space.
The business doesn't care about this unnecessary stupidity especially if it
makes other business requirements, such as security or accessibility, more
challenging. The business cares about reducing expenses, retaining users, not
getting sued, and generating revenue.

You can justify the stupidity with all manner of technical reasons, but in the
end does it allow you to perform simple updates in minutes or days? As a
developer you are an expense to the business and not a driver of revenue. If
you have to justify your limited productivity with a bunch of technical
nonsense you are a financial liability.

------
antoineMoPa
I'd add: Workout and do other stuff while working on your side project. Don't
just sit 8 more hours per day. Do some push ups, code a bit. Do some sit ups,
code a bit, go running outside a bit, code some lines. Do the laundry, code
while waiting. I've found that this works well for me and I am more satisfied
with my day after.

~~~
iKlsR
This. Exercising has made all the difference. I'm more alert which leads to
productivity. Used to be a night owl and barely got anything done in the day.
Also, I now stop coding after say 10pm even on personal stuff, I make notes
and pick it up the next day. That buggy block of code you churned out at 2am
will be detrimental in the long run and your health isn't worth it.

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ravenstine
The likelihood that a side project is going to pay off is very slim. If you
are doing a side project for the sake of doing a side project, you are doing
it wrong. Doing other things like fitness and raising a family are worthy
_projects_ , in which case your coding job is now your side project.

~~~
diminoten
What's "worthy" about being fit or raising kids?

It's hard to decide for others what is important for them and what isn't. All
we can say here is that side projects aren't free and you're going to need to
take that time from other activities you participate in.

What it's not fair to say here is whether or not you're "right" to spend time
on the things you do.

In other words, this conversation lives entirely on the "is" side of
"is/ought", and doesn't need to stray into "ought" at all to still be helpful.

~~~
ravenstine
People normally don't take the kind of statement I made and interpret it as
the sort of proclamation you are making it out to be. _Relax._

~~~
diminoten
I am relaxed, I wanted to be clear that you were crossing a philosophical line
is all. No anger here, sorry if you felt attacked or anything!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem)

------
bogle
> Now we have three people working on the site full time, thousands of paying
> users, and tens of thousands of repositories.

Three! Love it. That was a massive hire of course, a 50% increase above the
two founders.

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xilni
No can do, not sure if enforceable but employment agreement says all code I
write even if unrelated to job is theirs.

~~~
burnt_toast
Joel Spolsky wrote an excellent article about these kinds of clauses in
programmer employment agreements.

[https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-
pr...](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/)

~~~
caconym_
> This ambiguity is meant to create enough of a chilling effect on the
> employee working in their spare time that for all intents and purposes it
> achieves the effect that the employer wants: the employee doesn’t bother
> doing any side projects that might turn into a business some day, and the
> employer gets a nice, refreshed employee coming to work in the morning after
> spending the previous evening watching TV.

Nailed it.

------
dberg
Lord is this impossible to read on mobile. I get using a gist and eating your
own dog food to share content. But these guys have incredible eng talent and
can’t make a gist readable on mobile ?

~~~
kzzzznot
I thought the same. Turned my phone to the side and still had to scroll
left/right a bit

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vectorEQ
starting a side project is great if you are not yet established developer. if
you are, i'd say your resume should perform the same function...

~~~
daftshady
not all people start a side project to make their resume look better.

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aloukissas
Yes, but it took GitHub 10 years to make small private (i.e. side project-
friendly) repos free.

~~~
black-tea
I've used github for my side projects for that entire time and I still don't
have a single private repo.

~~~
reificator
That's great. I love open sourcing things, so in a perfect world I'd never
have a private repo. (for a side project that is)

Unfortunately, I have third party assets that I cannot release under an open
source license, that I would like to use for my side projects, and I would
like them to be versioned alongside the code. That's not an uncommon situation
for people who enjoy writing games on the side, for example.

~~~
black-tea
Github was always very reasonably priced. It was only a free service to
support free software. It's a shame it's not still like that imo.

------
mancerayder
That's a great idea -- if you don't have a wide range of hobbies and a
curiosity about life. So work 40-50 hours a week, and then in your leisure
time continue to work on the same type of item?

Maybe many developers who relate to this don't have creative pursuits (eg.
writing, photography, painting, etc.), don't exercise, don't have much of a
social life, and thus it is a no-brainer. Or, perhaps people are replacing
wasted time (i.e. TV) with side dev time.

Either way, more power to you. I'm a believer in cross-training - creative
thinking and a healthy body also improve the 'actual work' part of your work
life.

------
Yuval_Halevi
If everything will work out, at one point this side project will become your
main project

And than after some time, You will need a side project again

And this cycle can last forever.

That's the life of the entrepreneur

Always chasing about something new

------
sachin18590
As an ex-founder who was mad about side projects, I can tell you in hindsight,
if you start a side-project, definitely make sure you enjoy what you are
doing. The joy is in the process and not the destination. Otherwise, you will
just burn your way through and destabilize your relationships unnecessarily as
well.

------
proletarian
Come to the free Minnebar unconference if you're in Minneapolis April 27. Side
Projects for Fun and Profit - 2019 Edition
[https://sessions.minnestar.org/sessions/689](https://sessions.minnestar.org/sessions/689)

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person_of_color
I would like to work on a side project, but I'm in my late 20s, single, and
need to date a lot.

I need advice from people who went through this phase. Should I focus on my
career or finding a partner?

------
feep
Video of talk:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVs90EsAi3o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVs90EsAi3o)

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lanoixdecoco
This is a great read but damn does he use “guys” a lot.

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indigo945
"Start a toy collection, says LEGO founder."

------
kentf
And Clearbanc will fund it :)

