
UK e-petition: Do Not Force ISP Filtering of Pornography and Other Content - jackhoy
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51746?utm_content=buffer2a7c2&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
======
zalzane
The last thing this situation needs is a bit of petition-based slacktivism to
calm people's nerves.

Petitions do absolutely nothing. Off the top of my head, I can't recall a
single petition in recent history that has done anything other than given its
signers a false sense of contribution towards a cause. I'd go as far as to say
that pushing petitions probably damages a cause more than aids it.

If you want to change something, you get some people together and start a
rally, or get people inundate your representative's inbox with mail from angry
voters who don't want to see a measure pass.

~~~
Aqueous
I don't think rallies really change anything either, unless they are large
enough to really disrupt other media coverage and shift public opinion. Which
is rare.

Polls change things. Politicians pretend to care about phone calls to their
office and letters, but they're really paying attention to public opinion, as
represented by public opinion polls. They will never do anything unless the
math adds up, unless doing so keeps them safe (or safer) in their job. They
will never do anything unless you force them to do so by shifting public
opinion.

People get the government they deserve. Cameron is only doing this because he
thinks this is what the majority of British people want, or at least wouldn't
mind. Make the argument to the people, not the politicians.

~~~
tomelders
It would appear polls don't change things either. Cameron and the Tories have
been consistently polling badly. As for getting the government we deserve,
this is a coalition, the public voted and no one won, we didn't ask for this
government. Cameron has no mandate from the electorate, he is doing this
because he is a bad person.

I'll tell you what really works. Riots. In my memory, the only time I can
remember the UK Government bending to the will of the people was after the
poll tax riots.

To help illustrate the futility of trying to engage with the UK government via
peaceful means: At least 750,000 people marched on London to oppose the Iraq
war and the government ignored every single one of them. And the protestors
were right, dead right and not one single politician involved has ever
acknowledged the failure to act on the overwhelming will of the people.

I personally have come to believe that There is no chance for democracy and no
chance for diplomacy in this country. Our laws are drafted by the CEOs and
stakeholders of private organisations who we do not vote for, and yet they
have seemingly unfettered access to our MPs. When that scheming little turd of
a man Lord Mandleson was against the Digital Economy Act, all it took was an
invite to David Geffen's private villa and the man had a complete turn around
on the issue. Come on for Christ sake, they can't even be bothered to hide
their corruption anymore. Mere weeks ago a gaggle of MPs were caught taking
money (or so they thought) to ask questions in the House of Commons. That is
unquestionable illegal behaviour and to my knowledge not a single MP has been
charged or even removed from the house.

I'm pulling my hair out wondering what the hell we're going to do about it. I
write to MPs all the time with questions or to have hem clarify their thinking
on certain issues and I hear nothing back. They do not care. However, when I
wrote to the President of the EU, I had a response within a week. An
unsatisfactory response but certainly not a boiler plate.

I think we've left it so long and done so little to keep our democracy healthy
that we have a high price to pay if we want to fix it. But then there's an
even higher price to pay if we don't, so fuck it, viva la revolucion!

~~~
eru
> As for getting the government we deserve, this is a coalition, the public
> voted and no one won, we didn't ask for this government.

That's an interesting take on coalition government. In continental Europe they
are generally seen in a more favourable light. (Though, in proportional
representation one party governments are much less likely.)

------
motters
Having signed a number of these in the past I can predict what the official
response will be. They will say that they are not forcing anyone and that the
system is entirely voluntary. They'll say it's on by default merely to help
protect children from accessing inappropriate content, and they'll say that
the block lists are under constant review by a panel of independent experts.

~~~
Joeboy
The point isn't to come up with a petition that the government is unable to
think of a response to, the point is to show that censoring the internet is
unpopular.

~~~
nextw33k
You missed the point, the petition asks not to create a bill for a filter.
However the current filter is being put in place without ANY law being
enacted. The PM is threatening the ISP's into doing this.

This is not a democracy because I actually wrote to my MP about last year. He
said he would vote against it. However there has been no vote in the commons.

------
alexlawford
"Bad parenting is the real problem ... not rely on filters of dubious
effectiveness."

I'm not sure how this is an argument against the filter? We agree that
"parents need to supervise and educate their children about internet use", in
the same way that parents need to supervise and educate their children about
crossing the road. That doesn't mean we do away with traffic lights. The
filter will surely help facilitate parents in their efforts to protect their
children. If they don't want it, they can have it removed.

"It also sets a poor precedent that objectionable content can be blocked ...
promote education over flimsy, disruptive, and money-wasting "solutions"."

This is really the same argument, reiterated. Why not promote both good
parenting and "solutions"? Many people don't have the technical expertise to
set up filters of this kind on their own (I would suggest that in many
households, computers are used almost exclusively by the children). They might
have the desire to be responsible parents in this area, but not know how to go
about doing it.

The only other point raised here is the "poor precedent" of blocking content.
Is the argument here that it will lead to blocking of more content in the
future? If so this a slippery slope fallacy. There is no evidence that this is
the case. And if you really need to carry on watching porn, give your ISP a
call. No one is stopping you.

~~~
falk
"Is the argument here that it will lead to blocking of more content in the
future? If so this a slippery slope fallacy."

No it's not because U.K. ISPs have revealed that the filter will censor other
content, as well.

"As well as pornography, users may automatically be opted in to blocks on
"violent material", "extremist related content", "anorexia and eating disorder
websites" and "suicide related websites", "alcohol" and "smoking". But the
list doesn't stop there. It even extends to blocking "web forums" and
"esoteric material", whatever that is. "Web blocking circumvention tools" is
also included, of course." [1]

[1]
[http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/27/pornwall](http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/27/pornwall)

The bottom line is that if you don't want your children to be exposed to
content that may be questionable, don't let them get on the Internet. Set a
password on your computer. Install a filtering program which don't require any
technical expertise to install whatsoever. Hell, Windows has a web filter
build in now a days. Don't force your preposterous views on to me. The
government has no place restricting legal content. I'm tired of these bullshit
"Think of the children!" arguments.

~~~
alexlawford
I wasn't aware of that. Such broadly defined terms are a worry, I would agree.
I live in China so I have an idea of how a government might use such tools for
its own ends while presenting it in a way that sounds like they're helping the
population.

I'm not worried about my children (although I don't have any yet). But I think
in many household this will be for the good. As I said, it's not uncommon for
children to know more about computing than their parents.

I seem to be alone here in thinking pornography is a bad thing. I find it
strange that you would say such a view was "preposterous", though. It
certainly isn't unusual, outside of the tech/geek world. I would be quite
happy if pornography were illegal. That said, I realise the argument for
government intervention in this way is a difficult one to make.

~~~
touristtam
Tolerance is the word you need to look up. If this technical way to censure
the internet is implemented in a society that boast to be free, this is just
another way to control information. Which can very easily degenerate into
intolerant views.

Just imagine that tomorrow the common view in the UK is that China and all its
citizen are the spawn of the devil, and any message coming to contradict this
is to be censored out of the british internet, because it goes against the
official view .... Only the technical savy being able to see what are the
views from of others outside the UK.

Imposing your view onto others is not the way forward.

~~~
alexlawford
All laws are, in effect, a form of imposing the views of some onto others.
Tolerence is a word that is held in such esteem as to be almost untouchable in
our generation. I understand its meaning but reject the idea that is the
answer to everything. A sexual appetite for children, for example, should not
be tolerated (I'd imagine we agree). We simply draw our own lines at different
points.

I agree with the general sentiment that the government regularly over step
their mark in terms of involvement in our lives and attempts to control our
activity and freedom of expression. However, I am happy to see voices speaking
up against pornography which I see as a plague on our society.

------
DanBC
> The government is currently trying to push a bill forcing ISPs to provide
> opt-out pornography filtering, however this is an issue that fails to
> address any real problems.

My writing is lousy. It would have been nice if someone had grammar checked
this before it was set up.

> even though the filters are easily (even trivially) circumvented.

Petitions of this type force a debate in parliament. The above line will be
answered by Cameron (or similar) saying "We are confident that the filters can
not be got around"; he has already said that.

As well as signing this petition _please_ write a short letter to your MP and
ask them to oppose this stupid filter, with short clear examples of why it's
stupid. If you only chose one thing to do write to your MP instead of signing
this petition.

------
ryan14
someone should setup a list of isps that oppose the filter and then get people
to Email the isps that do NOT oppose the filter and tell them that u will
cancel your service with them if they do not change their stance

