

Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S. - kunle
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/17/google-files-new-patent-lawsuit-against-apple-seeks-to-block-iphone-ipad-mac-imports-to-u-s/

======
crazygringo
Seriously, I hope everyone manages to block everybody's imports.

Then lawmakers will be forced to actually overhaul the patent system.

Because judging from progress so far, it seems like only a meltdown would do
it.

~~~
bishnu
This would force a settlement. Which would be bad because no actual patent
reform would actually be achieved and a few large tech companies would be able
to lock-out new entrants into the field.

------
joelrunyon
Does anybody else feel all the tech giants standing around with their patents
in hand is like all the characters standing around with guns like at the end
of Reservoir Dogs?

"Nobody innovate or we'll shoot!"

It's intriguing at first, but you can only keep it up so long before the plot
line gets annoying because no one is doing anything (or innovating), or
someone gets shot.

~~~
larsberg
IIRC, big companies used to claim they were gathering these patents to
_prevent_ this situation from happening, using a similar logic to that of
hoarding nuclear weapons to mutually assured destruction.

But it appears that something in the balance has changed, and I'm not really
sure what. Are the lawyers just doing a bad job of agreeing on the licensing
fees (i.e. penalty for having less cross-targeted bombs for a given opponent)?
It's hard to know what to make of it all, putting myself in the shoes of an
exec at one of these large companies. At least when I was at MSFT, we used to
worry about this thing called "bad press" around lawsuits of this kind...

~~~
Lewisham
What changed was that Nokia was on the rocks, so they launched their missiles.
And, as is the way with mutually assured destruction scenarios, Apple
responded, and everyone else got dragged in one way or another.

~~~
tsotha
Yep, MAD only works until the first guy pulls the trigger.

~~~
niels_olson
Ref: World War One

------
mdwrigh2
Just to be clear, this Motorola suing Apple, and it's not the first time
they've done so. I think The Verge has a much less linkbait-y headline for
this: "Motorola files new patent case against Apple with ITC, wants import ban
on iPhone and iPad" [1]

[1]: [http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/17/3250656/motorola-files-
new...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/17/3250656/motorola-files-new-patent-
case-against-apple-with-itc)

~~~
azakai
It's Motorola, a subsidiary of Google, suing Apple. Yes, Motorola sued Apple
before. But this is after Google acquired Motorola, so Google is now in
charge, and it's relevant to put Google in the title - this is now all part of
the battle between Google and Apple.

~~~
mdwrigh2
I agree, see my comment to the above poster.

------
comatose_kid
There are a lot of 'Apple deserves this' type of comments in this thread that
I'd like to address.

The patent system is probably flawed (IANAL), but companies do need to have a
way to defend their innovations. Apple did re-invent the smart phone in 07,
and has been the design leader since then.

Android has followed in their footsteps - witness the design shift from their
pre-iphone roadmap which consisted of blackberry-look-alike designs.

Further, there have been no bold re-imaginings of the smartphone in Android-
land (sorry, a better notification system doesn't really qualify). They are
taking Apple's innovations and applying a different business model to achieve
success.

Google and Apple are both amazing companies, but I have a hard time finding
fault with Apple's decision to sue Google's partners. If the tables were
turned, and Google came out with an Android phone first, I would support
Google suing Apple for the same reasons.

~~~
cheald
Apple iterated, but they didn't re-invent the smartphone. See the LG Prada,
announced in December 2006. It was the first full-screen capacitive touch
phone. Its form factor was strikingly similar to the iPhone, and LG even
accused Apple of ripping off the design (though they never followed through in
court).

What Apple did do was market this newer form factor very successfully,
effectively tying the iPhone form factor to their brand in view of public
opinion, but it's revisionist to claim that they reinvented the smartphone
into the design that we know and love today.

~~~
forgottenpaswrd
"What Apple did do was market this newer form factor very successfully"

No, what Apple did was to bring its 20 years of experience making OSs to a
mobile phone. Most of the iOS libraries are the same that in macOS.

Those are incredible low level-very efficient and smart work tested by
millions of people on the real world for years, and very good designed.(Apple
have really great designers not only on the outside)

The quality of this thing was(and is, Windows internals are sh*t, I had
disassembled both, it always was about shipping fast and rough, fix later
attitude) much bigger than anything else in the market at this time.

Google did the same porting Linux to mobile.

~~~
sigkill
Say what you may about operating systems then and now, but with experience I
can tell you this, these devices were phones first and computers second. They
are computers first and phones second now.

[Warning - Personal anecdote. #include<grain of salt>] Even in Nokia land,
SonyEricsson land, what ever crap may have happened on the system you were
ALWAYS able to attend phone calls. Even if the whole damn os came crashing
down because of a rogue game, an incoming call was never missed or cut off.
Once phone functionality became 'just an app', there are a lot more cases
(personally) of the incoming phone calls flat out not responding because of
some random rogue app. Both iOS and Android (early revisions) are equally
guilty of this. Note, I'm not talking about dropped call or poor reception
which may be a network issue. I'm specifically addressing the "code" part of
the phone where functionality just did a 180.

/end-rant

~~~
drone
You bring up an excellent point, which accurately describes my first
experience with a windows smart phone. I didn't get back onto smart phones for
a while (buying my next only three years ago), once the crop of non-smart
phones finally hit rock bottom for my personal tastes.

I do despise how often my phone fails to act as an actual phone. I also
despise the lack of hardware buttons to answer calls. The most frustrating
aspect of a smart phone, is trying to answer a call while an app is going
nuts, the screen won't swipe, or the damned buttons that aren't really buttons
don't work.

~~~
sigkill
I'm generally the bastion for cutting edge tech whenever I buy any gadget. I
don't mind spending ridiculous amounts of money for that _one_ specific
feature or niche that I want, because I'm not going to spend money again for a
very very long time.

Believe it or not, my first Android smartphone was only bought last year, and
that too, because there weren't premium dumbphones. Most of them were cheap
plasticky crap. Even Nokia seemed to have lost focus so I thought, "Hey why
not?" and jumped in. It was hard to transition from blind messaging and blind
dialing to actually giving a damn to what's going on, on the screen. I mean,
it's just a slab of glass. They could've atleast had hardware Send and End
keys like the HTC HD2... Otoh Google wants to go completely buttonless.

------
neya
As far as I can see, this is too bad for consumers AND start-ups.

Consumers lose - For example, I lost a very important feature on my phone due
to a ridiculous patent threat by Apple (Universal Search).

Start-ups lose - I know atleast a couple of friends who were working on an
innovative Adreno-Android based project that they left off only because of the
fear of being sued (also,they were bootstrapping and they didn't have the
money to afford a counter-suit, in case of a legal threat).

Now this is exactly the kind of behavior these patent wars are driving us to.
Everyone is to blame here, but I personally have a heavy bias against Steve
Jobs because he was a man who invented nothing useful except these patent
wars. And boy, people keep praising him instead for his
innovation...Seriously, we need more articles on how much innovation this man
has ruined more he has contributed ever.

------
S_A_P
I believe that this may end up being Steve Jobs legacy. He became so focused
on destroying android that it consumes everyone. Sure android was an iPhone
rip off, google may acted in bad faith by ripping it off. So what? Anyone who
makes something enviable should expect the copies to follow them. I am at my
saturation point with IP lawsuits. I lack much empathy for any party at this
point, consumers are the ones that lose.

~~~
throwa
What makes Android an Iphone rip off. Google bought android in 2005, was the
iphone out in 2005? [http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2005-08-16/google-
buys-a...](http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2005-08-16/google-buys-android-
for-its-mobile-arsenal)

Can we try not to revise history.

~~~
veeti
"Android" in 2005 was a Symbian/BlackBerry-style OS that was being prototyped
on a QWERTY device with no touch screen.

~~~
rustynails
Reference please. My understanding is that Android was always intended to be
hardware independent, including supporting touchscreen "before iPhone" came
out. The claims of a sudden change in direction are revisionist history to
suit some people's agendas,
[http://www.osnews.com/story/25264/Did_Android_Really_Look_Li...](http://www.osnews.com/story/25264/Did_Android_Really_Look_Like_BlackBerry_Before_the_iPhone_/)

I am grateful for the competition between both groups (Android and IOS). This
competition forces organizations to compete on merit, or the market votes with
its feet.

~~~
veeti
You just gave me my reference. The video in that article was released almost a
year after the iPhone. It's pretty obvious that the touch UI in it is also a
very early version of the Android we have today. Just one glaring example is
how the application menus are navigated by using the hardware keys on the
device and not by touch. The touch targets are tiny. The UI is embarrassingly
laggy. It probably isn't a coincidence that these BlackBerry-style Android
devices never actually got released, either.

I have no "agenda". I'm an Android developer and I've owned one Apple device
in my lifetime (and have no plans to buy new ones ever because of their
business practices). I own multiple Android devices. I just realize that the
iPhone truly did change touch devices forever because the UI was something
new.

~~~
rustynails
I own five Apple devices, and no Android devices :)

From the article, QUOTE The interesting thing here is that the release of the
SDK with support for touch and large screens, as well as the release of this
video and hardware reference design took place one month before the infamous
photograph of the BlackBerry-esque device. This means that Google wasn't
working with just one prototype, but several, which really shouldn't be a
surprise at all, if you think about what Google wanted Android to be.

Android was never intended to run on just one form factor. Android runs on
everything from candybar touch screen phones to qwerty-phones, and everything
in between. Heck, there was a race to get Android running on laptops, and even
before Android was well and ready for it, it was dumped on tablets. UNQUOTE
Emphasis on blackberry and touchscreen appearing at the same time, and that
Android was always intended to be form factor independent.

How does this equate to "in 2005, Android was blackberry"? Reference please.

~~~
veeti
Well, I certainly can't say that as a fact since only the Android team would
know the truth. However, from the video in question it's pretty obvious that
if a touch-screen version of Android was in development at the same time in
2005, the UI was not anything like the touch UI we have on Android or iPhone
today. It was the same unintuitive, clunky and slow trash we had on resistive
screens for ages.

That is where the "iPhone ripoff" claim comes in. Ripoff is too strong of a
word, but it certainly had a huge influence on the direction of Android.

------
SquareWheel
I stopped buying Apple products because of this patent nonsense, so I guess
that means I can't buy that Nexus 7 I was eyeing either. Why is it that giant
companies consistently act so evil?

~~~
azylman
While I would obviously prefer to see no patent lawsuits, Motorola's lawsuit
here is very different from Apple's against Samsung.

Apple refuses to license their patents - Samsung et. al. went to Apple and
said "won't you please allow us to pay you to use your technology?" to which
Apple emphatically answered "NO!". Here, Apple is using Motorola's technology
and Motorola said "Apple, will you please pay us if you're going to use our
technology?" and Apple's reply was the same: "NO!"

Apple is essentially doing the same thing that they're accusing Samsung of,
except that Samsung really wanted to pay Apple, whereas Apple emphatically
does not want to pay Motorola.

~~~
jsz0
That's what people said about Apple/Samsung until the trial reviled Apple did
offer licensing terms which Samsung rejected. We have no way of knowing if
Apple offered similar licensing terms to Motorola.

~~~
azylman
Actually, prior documents released from Motorola and Apple show that Motorola
wanted 2.25% of Apple's revenue for its patents[1] - on a $500 device, that's
$1.50. Apple rejected those terms. Compare that to Apple's demand of
$40/device from Samsung - it's not favorable.

[1] [http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/02/04/what-motorola-
wants-2...](http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/02/04/what-motorola-
wants-2-25-of-apples-iphone-sales-revenue/)

~~~
bgeorgescu
2.25% of $500 is $11.25

~~~
ozataman
.. and that makes up a pretty hefty hit on the bottom line. A 2.25% drop in
revenue could very well cause a >10% drop in profits, even with Apple's large
margins.

------
viraptor
In a perfect world Apple, Google, Samsung, HTC, Motorola and Blackberry
achieve what they wanted - none of them can produce or sell mobile devices
anymore in any country. Meanwhile Nokia restarts production of quality
hardware and puts WebOS on them with compatibility layer allowing to use
legacy iOS and Android applications, taking over the leader position...

(In a Bizarro World, it's Siemens bringing back Symbian)

~~~
ktsmith
Nokia was at the forefront of this mess.

------
ajays
So are we going to hate on Google now, like we hated on Yahoo suing Facebook?

~~~
jemfinch
Was Facebook suing Yahoo when Yahoo decided to sue Facebook?

~~~
_djo_
In the Motorola-Apple lawsuit saga, Motorola sued first. This is their second
lawsuit, after Apple's retaliation.

------
arkitaip
Did Google acquire Motorola just to prepare its patent arsenal?

~~~
Mythbusters
If there was any doubt about it in the past, it should be put to rest now.

~~~
jongraehl
"just"

------
naner
Google (through Motorola) is using Apple's tactics against them.
Google/Motorola tried to do the same thing with Microsoft only to have
Microsoft cry foul over FRAND (which isn't applicable in the case with Apple).

It is a dirty tactic but this is the system Microsoft and Apple and many other
large tech companies lobbied for.

~~~
sciwiz
Looks like Motorola is trying with what seem to be non-FRAND related patents.
(non 3G/4G related)

"Motorola Mobility unit said it filed a new patent-infringement case against
Apple Inc. (AAPL) claiming that features on some Apple devices, including the
Siri voice-recognition program, infringe its patents. The complaint at the
U.S. International Trade Commission claims infringement of seven Motorola
Mobility patents on features including location reminders, e-mail notification
and phone/video players"

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-17/google-s-
motorola-f...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-17/google-s-motorola-
files-new-patent-case-against-apple-at-itc.html)

~~~
naner
Yes, I know. I was referring to the earlier case against Microsoft concerning
h264 patents. I didn't mean to imply the same thing would happen here. I
edited the post in an attempt to make it clear.

------
noamsml
On the one hand, lawsuits are bad and innovation is good. On the other hand,
I'm happy to see Google defend its ecosystem against Apple's square-with-
rounded-corner lawsuits.

------
vng
It's about time.

~~~
zschallz
Why is it okay for Google to do it but not say, Oracle? It's ridiculous no
matter who does it.

~~~
mingramjr
Because Apple attacked first

~~~
tedunangst
Wait, Apple sued Google?

~~~
azylman
Apple has sued Google-owned Motorola and Android handset manufacturers, so
yes. Now Google-owned Motorola is suing back.

~~~
sbuk
Motorola filled suit first.

~~~
vetinari
After being threaten by Apple.

~~~
joesb
Still means Motorola sued first.

------
grandalf
Even though I'm generally in favor of moderately strong patent laws, this is
starting to get ridiculous. The statute of limitations on these sorts of
things should be 1-2 years max.

~~~
rorrr
And patents should be

A) Sufficiently complex. No more slide-to-unlock trivial bullshit.

B) Strict checks on prior art. Slide-to-unlock, again.

~~~
colmvp
I completely agree but how does one determine 'sufficiently complex'?

------
nell
Forget about Apple and Google's vendor lock-in strategy. The American Bar
Association has something better up its sleeves to get paid regularly.

------
coryl
Anyone know what the eventual end game of all these lawsuits will be? Will
everyone just end up carrying on and suing for the next few decades?

~~~
barista
Rich patent lawyers?

------
eranation
And I'm still waiting to get my dumb search smart again on Galaxy S3, they
fight, we lose.

------
LetBinding
Lawyers creating jobs for lawyers. Google's lawyers and Apple's lawyers have a
vested interest in keeping each other in business. Extend to all lawyers for
tech firms.

------
gagan2020
I think Google is smarter than what looks at the surface. They are indirectly
targeting timing of iPhone 5 and Apple's revenue. Good timing Google.

~~~
podperson
Except that, according to Florian Mueller:

"Even if Motorola won an import ban next week, it would not affect the iPhone
4S and the new iPad 4G, nor the widely-anticipated iPhone 5, which is also
expected to incorporate a Qualcomm baseband chipset."

[http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/08/google-opts-for-
escalatio...](http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/08/google-opts-for-escalation-
motorola.html)

~~~
vidarh
Mueller is not exactly a reliable source of anything but what the preferred
viewpoint of his current corporate clients. Sometimes it coincides with
reality, but often it does not (see his coverage of Oracle's case against
Google, for instance, and how it kept shifting as he was proven wrong time
after time, and consider that Oracle is one of his known clients)

------
DigitalSea
Seems like everyone is suing everyone these days. Apple sues Samsung, Samsung
counter-sues, Google sue Apple and no doubt Apple will counter-sue and then
someone else will counter-sue them all. The patent system is a joke, maybe
this will be the final blow that will make someone take notice that the patent
system needs some reform.

------
akurilin
It's good to be a patent attorney these days.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Maybe it's a patent litigation bubble :-)

~~~
fpgeek
It isn't a bubble. Until Congress and/or the courts change the rules, the
fundamentals are very, very strong.

~~~
rustynails
The fundamentals of patents may be very strong, but IIRC, the same does not
apply to software patents,
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_United_S...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_United_States_patent_law)

IIRC, this discussion still needs to take place. I really, really hope that
software patents are knocked on the head, unless there is true science, such
as a complex algorithm, which should have a limited life of a few years AT
MOST, otherwise my litmus test of "harm to society" is met.

------
cyberswat
Someone needs a patent on patents to stop this insanity.

~~~
malkarouri
The lawsuits about prior art should be enough to lock down the judicial system
on its own.

------
kondro
Maybe there is actually a conspiracy between the big hardware/software
manufacturers to force lawmakers to review patent law.

------
ktizo
I think it is part of a plan to destroy western society by locking up all the
courts and government with unanswerable questions such as "Who first thought
of the rectangle?".

Soon, there will be nothing left but a wasteland and some lawyers arguing over
who gets to own half a dead cat while they warm their hands on oil drums full
of burning currency.

~~~
caf
Or maybe it's a cunning plan to _save_ western society by locking up all the
courts and government?

~~~
viraptor
Good idea. Although the highest European courts are already pretty busy
sorting out other burning issues. Like VAT exemptions for golf-club non-
members ([http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2012/august/ecj-to-
rule-o...](http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2012/august/ecj-to-rule-on-
whether-green-fees-charged-to-non-members-of-golf-clubs-should-be-exempt-from-
vat/))

~~~
ktizo
So, presumably a lobbyist working at the EU now has a new golf membership.

------
indiecore
We all knew that the second someone started wielding their "defensive" patents
the whole system was going to fall apart.

Well...here we go I guess.

~~~
simcop2387
Yep, someone decided that MAD was worth it or that they could win. It
certainly looks like it's going to be a fun time for the lawyers and people
with popcorn.

So far we've got Apple suing Motorola, Motorola suing back. Apple suing
Samsung, and now Google suing Apple. Any others I've missed?

~~~
vasco
I guess in the end IBM would come into the room and shut everyone up.

~~~
sigkill
Honest question, why? Don't most of the phones run on ARM? Or did you imply
something on the lines of PC (or the POWER architecture)?

/clueless

~~~
option_greek
Go to any tech retail outlet, close your eyes and randomly touch any of the
products they sell. I'm sure IBM has at least one patent covering it. The fact
that they were here for a very long time and do a lot of pure science research
means they are ahead of patent game than most.

Here's one story about Sun shakedown in 80's
[http://www.osnews.com/story/24987/Microsoft_s_Android_Shaked...](http://www.osnews.com/story/24987/Microsoft_s_Android_Shakedown_IBM_Did_It_First)

------
ezesolares
WTF with people still quoting FOSS Patents Florian Mueller... that guy can be
bought easily. He has no integrity

~~~
neya
hahahah! I used to have enormous respect for him in the early days, later he
and his blog turned into sh*t, so I stopped considering any of his opinions.
He's like MG Seigler, but into Law and stuff.

------
barista
It's the articles like these and the discussion thereof that has dragged down
the quality of HN these days.. sad.

