

Download bots are a well-known secret of the iOS eco-system - akkartik
http://www.insidemobileapps.com/2012/02/14/download-bots-were-the-well-known-secret-of-the-app-ecosystem

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bprater
Part of this is Apple's fault. In general, Apple needs to look at some
alternative ways to get apps in front of iOS user's eyes.

AppStore has been mostly untouched over its lifetime. I frequently scan the
"Featured" category and "Top 25", but I rarely go deeper. The curation could
be much broader and touch individual interests, but right now, it doesn't.

I would ask this to iOS developers: what would you like to see AppStore
changed so that you might get additional exposure for your software?

~~~
viscanti
I don't think it's Apple's job to get apps in front of iOS users. The app
developer(s) should have a marketing strategy of some sort. Obviously that
strategy depends on budget, but if you're hoping you're featured, or
fraudulently using bots to increase downloads, you're likely doomed from the
beginning.

I think there's room for a third party solution. A website where you can rank
apps you like, and it recommends other ones you might like could work. There's
lots of potential options for app discovery businesses, I just don't see how
Apple can get into it at the level a good third party solution could.

~~~
rkalla
In the context of general marketing you are right, but in the context of
Apples walled garden (app store) not only is that their job, it is their
reason for existing.

The more content they can get under your nose that you like, the more content
you buy, the more the app devs make, the more Apple makes and the more desired
the iOS store becomes.

This is why Netflix and Amazon spend millions on their reccomendation engines;
same idea here.

I think you probably knew this though. I am only solidying the point that
inside any app stores environment, it is the job of the owner of the store to
markwt the content effectively. Outside the store, anyone can do anything they
want.

~~~
dkarl
The comparison to Netflix and Amazon is apt. Every time I go to those sites,
I'm overwhelmed with stuff that I'd love to read or watch. There's just no
time for it all. The app store is the opposite. A lot of times I'd like to
play a new game, but I can't find anything that seems interesting. It feels
like a desert, just tons of apps and games that other people want, but nothing
for me.

~~~
rkalla
I absolutely agree; whatever algorithm (or lack of) that Apple uses is a far
cry from the detail-oriented work they do on most other things.

Not only do my Genius recommendations rarely change, the hit rate of things I
_actually_ want to play that is recommended to me is something like 4%.

Google seems a bit better at this, but Apple is _awful_ at this... like "Dear
god just acquire some company that is recommending toothbrushes and adapt
their algorithm" bad.

At least from a user perspective.

------
orbitingpluto
The article states that the Android Market is much fairer. But from my
experience bots are very much alive on the Android market.

A competing app was released within one week of mine late last October. I
managed 1000 downloads in a week, he managed 10,000 in far less than that. His
Google +1s also went to 381 almost immediately. His current # of Google +1s
more than two months later: 389.

~~~
alexlin
Bots don't exist on Android, but incent PPI does. It doesn't matter about the
# of installs he gets because Android takes into account uninstall rates as
well as your app ratings.

If he's ranked higher than you, he's most likely hitting the factors better
than you.

~~~
orbitingpluto
Why are you sure that bots do not exist on Android? The article did not deny
their existence.

As for that "more holistic" approach, Bots don't usually uninstall apps that
they've downloaded. They just get re-instantiated (and possibly reused to
further help pad results).

Also if PPI was used, a _lot_ of cash was blown to get 10k downloads and 381
Google +1s sandwiched into a manner of hours. That means the developer either
has an inside track or lots of cash to blow and no thought to ever seeing a
return.

------
mikeash
Is there any evidence for the bots theory besides the fact that some services
provide a large increase in downloads without a corresponding large increase
in app use? The article is pretty long, but that's the only piece of actual
evidence I could find in it, as opposed to a whole bunch of hearsay and
speculation.

Seems to me that bumping downloads but not usage could just as easy happen
with pushy ads targeting users with a healthy "ooh shiny" instinct, especially
for free (or freemium) apps, so this really does not seem convincing to me.

~~~
kimmai
It's not really hearsay. The top CEO quoted runs a company, Fiksu, that does
user acquisition on behalf of Groupon, Gilt, Vh1, etc. Most large developers
know about bots because they've used or tried them.

They will say this off the record to reporters, but never on the record
because they don't want to be banned by Apple.

Also, Apple issued a warning to developers about using these services last
week.

Also: @Alexlin, who everyone is beating on in the comments, ran a user
acquisition, marketing company for apps called G6Pay and runs his own mobile
gaming company, which is part of YC. He actually knows his stuff about how to
get to the top of the charts.

~~~
mikeash
The Fiksu claim still seems to be based entirely on downloads which don't
correspond to use. They _think_ it's bots, but they don't actually know, all
they know is they got a lot of downloads from something that didn't use the
app afterwards.

For Alexlin, well, I'd be interested in knowing how he knows this too.

------
alexlin
I personally don't understand why "bot farms" are that "scummy" or unfair. It
was possibly the best way for the average indie developer to stand out without
a large wallet (to buy banners). This rash of a problem is even more
aggravated ever since incent PPI was banned.

Because of this, the era of rapidly acquiring users at scale on iOS is coming
to an end. In it's place, developers will be forced to revert back to
traditional ad buys in the form of banner ad networks with ridiculously "black
'box" targeting options.

I don't know if this is a bad thing since developers will spend more time
figuring out their LTVs through each respective acquisition channel, but you
sure as hell better be able to throw a few thousand dollars here and there and
expect it to never back out.

All in all, Apple's app store policy should just read, "If you've solved
discoverability on our app store, we're banning your method."

~~~
jws
_I personally don't understand why "bot farms" are that "scummy" or unfair._

They fraudulently make the claim "lots of people like this". User's believe a
"most downloaded" means other people like them have made a decision and picked
this little grain of wheat from the chaff.

Bot farming is fundamentally lying to your potential customers to the
detriment of applications that should be on the list.

~~~
alexlin
And marketing as a concept isn't?

Why aren't people rallying against Tapjoy when they're incentivizing people to
download apps in exchange for virtual currency? As long as you pay $20-30k,
you have enough downloads to breach the top 25.

Or take banner ads. Zynga has the ability to throw $100k IOs at random ad
networks and their new apps are instantly in the Top 25 shortly after launch.
Does this reflect popularity/quality or is it just a competition between who
has the biggest wallet?

If Apple changed it's app store algorithm to function like the Android app
store (that takes uninstall rates/ratings into account), this wouldn't be a
problem.

