
Turning the world into a 'safe space' – but at what cost? - s9w
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/496981-hygienic-fascism-turning-the-world-into-a-safe-space-but-at-what-cost
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recursivedoubts
It is obvious now that if totalitarianism is to be imposed on a modern
country, the easiest route is via scientific authority coupled with
technological tools. In the US, the constitution (such as it is) was voided
and very few people objected. (This is an objective fact, not a value
judgement. I am as confused and concerned as the next person.)

That does not mean that the current situation is an attempt to impose a
totalitarian system, but it does give me pause.

~~~
chrisco255
An indefinite state of emergency is an indefinite state of tyranny. I don't
like any of this one bit. The arbitrariness of the Covid restrictions,
quarantining the healthy, the symptomless, and the young, who show extremely
low levels of susceptibility...is crazy. We've never approached a pandemic in
this way in human history. Even during Spanish flu, which was several orders
of magnitude more deadly than Covid, there was a few weeks of shutdown in a
handful of cities and mask wearing mandated in a handful of cities for a few
weeks at most.

In my particular state, Texas, 3300 have died from Covid. 6 months into the
pandemic. Population 27 million. In 2018 we lost over 10,000 to the common
flu. At this pace Covid will have fewer deaths than the flu in 2018.

I think they've turned the entire planet into a TSA checkpoint. Asinine
process, arbitrary rules, shutting down businesses who have no legal recourse,
forcing compliance and huge fines for not doing so. This is all too much. An
individual has the sovereignty to assess their own risks. Give people
information, but let them make their own choices.

I have yet to hear when these arbitrary draconian policies will be rolled
back. The disease may be with us forever. Somehow our ancestors went through
Spanish flu, tuberculosis, polio, and smallpox without these sweeping
policies. It's quite maddening.

~~~
donclark
How many of people contracted Covid-19 and will have health issues for the
rest of their lives? How does that compare to the flu?

~~~
recursivedoubts
How many of people have lost their jobs, begun using drugs, or suffered
permanent psychological damage and will have health issues for the rest of
their lives? How does that compare to the benefits of the lock down?

It's a very difficult situation to understand.

~~~
donclark
Agreed. It is a difficult situation to understand. And I think we are still in
the early stages of learning about the virus, what it does to various human
bodies, ages, etc - and more importantly - that we should not roll back the
lockdown until we think its safe to do so no?

~~~
recursivedoubts
I don't know.

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BrandoElFollito
This also depends on the country.

We have in France a heightened level of terrorist attacks (plan vigipirate).
This is in place for two years now and gradually everybody starts to ignore it
because the authorities did not lower it.

It started on everyday life, then schools were not that protected anymore,
then the administration buildings.

I actually had to look up whether it is still in place.

So you have countries where a long state of alert can turn into tyranny, then
you have France where everybody ignores it after some time.

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Barrin92
Honestly a horrible article. From comparing the current state of affairs to
Henry Simon's utopian socialism, or asserting that Bill Gates symphatizes with
Chinese authoritarianism, or even the term 'hygienic fascism' and Italian
blackshirts and "climate crusader Jerry Brown".

Are we looking at the same US here? The US can't even get people to wear masks
properly while cases are exploding and riots took place. I'm pretty sure the
US is far away from Brave New World technocracy.

What strikes me as oddly 'fascist' if we are going to use that word is this
acceptance of death and disease in the name of freedom, as if safety does not
matter and mom and pops and the sick and the weak have to be sacrified so the
economy can keep going and the youth can enjoy their beachtime. I mean it
really betrays a childish worldview to think safety and freedom are polar
opposites. _Public health is a requirement, not an enemy of freedom_. You
don't have much freedom if your lungs don't work.

~~~
meritganset
> You don't have much freedom if your lungs don't work.

Freedom and safety may not be polar opposites, but there's certainly tension
between them. Many believe that you should have the freedom to decide what to
do with your own lungs. The idea that you lose freedom because your lungs
don't work seems to be a willful misinterpretation of the idea of freedom from
government.

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Isinlor
Should you have freedom to walk naked? Nudists were advocating this kind of
freedom for a long time. I personally have sympathy for this point of view.

Passing COVID-19 or flu onto another person, especially elderly, may kill that
person. Walking naked with mask if you keep your body clean as far as I can
see will not kill anybody. So, why should we enforce clothes if we do not
enforce masks?

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voisin
Bans on public nudity are almost certainly motivated by moral decency and not
subjecting children to this, not for health reasons.

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Isinlor
I know. So, just to be sure. Are you suggesting that limiting freedom because
of "moral decency" is ok, but limiting freedom because you can kill people is
not? And what is "moral decency" anyway, because in many Asian countries
people will look at you as if you are breaking moral standards when without a
mask.

Also, children are perfectly able to handle asexual nudity. A lot of countries
in Europe allow being top-less in public places like beaches.

There is just no way to justify things like enforcing bras on women, but not
enforcing masks in crowded places during pandemic.

