
Why is there so much free porn on the internet? (2016) - turrini
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-so-much-free-porn-on-the-internet?share=1
======
philipkglass
The top linked answer blames lack of effective copyright enforcement, but I
think that the availability of rivalrous homegrown porn is at least as
significant. High quality video cameras are now built into millions of phones.
The performers don't require scripts, crew, or payment to appear in videos.
The product doesn't need localization for global consumption -- French movies
are fine for US audiences even without dubbing or subtitles.

This is in contrast to theatrical movies, where Joe Rando's video clips of him
and his girlfriend are very rarely an effective substitute for a scripted
production with paid actors. Even with hypothetical perfect copyright
enforcement on all pornography containing professional actors, the deluge of
free amateur content would have dramatically eroded movie pricing by now.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Additionally, there are people who prefer "real sex" clips to scripted porn
featuring professional porn stars.

~~~
ralfn
Would that be because maybe sexual attraction to a person is based on the
personality we project onto the looks and energy? And maybe within an industry
you simply don't have every type of personality and that is actually really
hard to fake?

Which is why some people like the amateur stuff much more.

Of course this suggests there are deep layers of emotional needs behind our
sexual preferences. Which is obviously not true. It is all about the flesh.
That is why porn sites only need three videos ;)

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shams93
Also the condom law further fragmented the industry just when tube sites were
hitting. DVD sales plunged from 150k average per release to 15k in sales no
industry call handle a 90% plunge in income. The tube sites are run from
Germany so you can't necessarily get content taken down even if you sue. Porn
Valley is no more besides a handful of custom content businesses and the huge
companies like Vivid porn as a small startup business is absolutely dead. Like
music you have the old 70s dinosaurs still working but the path from startup
to porn star business is blocked. The new content is amateur driven all the
controls to prevent underage actors and HIV testing are gone so it's an utter
mess and basically a dead industry.

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icebraining
Interesting that there's no mention of camming. Seems to me to have exploded
in the past few years, possibly as a reaction to what's being described (you
can't simply copy direct interaction, plus the production costs are much
lower).

It's doubly curious, since his site (Abbywinters) has added camming to their
offerings (calling them "Playdates").

~~~
jpatokal
All the more reason not to call attention to it and instead tell potential
competitors the industry is dying.

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teddyh
Isn’t the answer obvious? The answer is the same as the answer to the question
“Why is there so much free _everything_ on the internet?”

The answer is that copying is cheap – in fact almost free – and products in
markets with lots of competition tend to converge to its marginal cost, which
in this case is zero.

~~~
earenndil
Ok but consider, e.g., movies. Yes, there are free websites, but they're not
exactly legal or mainstream in the way that free porn sites are.

~~~
TheCoreh
Yes, but movies have a much higher barrier of entry than pornography. People
actually care about the production value, plot, special effects, music, etc.
For porn, on the other hand, that's not the case at all.

You should be comparing porn with short form, low production value content
(e.g. youtube channels) and indeed, there's a lot of free content on that
category available.

~~~
blattimwind
> For porn, on the other hand, that's not the case at all.

Oh, not really, you just never saw a more niche production. Well obviously
priorities are still different, but its far from all porn being roughly the
same, even within their categories.

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hacknat
Interesting take. I think Louis CK had a joke in his last special about how
“We can stop making new porn now”. Sounds like that might be what’s happening.
The idea that an industry might contract and die because it’s historic catalog
and free competing content are eating its market share isn’t totally new, but
the interesting moral ramifications for this particular industry are
noteworthy.

~~~
krisroadruck
Nah, VR porn is just getting started and that catalog is tiny. The Adult
industry isn't going anywhere.

~~~
Arbalest
Now that we're coming back up the other side of the uncanny valley, we might
still see a diminishing of human actors. Given that VR/AR is supposed to be
about immersion, it is going to be hard for human actors to provide this.

~~~
Someone
We will see different human actors: movies where you can put your (or, heaven
forbid, that of your ex; people won’t even need to have any explicit imagery
for revenge porn.) face, birth marks, tattoos, etc. on an actor of your
choice.

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jbob2000
The business model has changed, it's much more like the mobile games market
now; a handful of "whales" support the whole thing. You don't pay for the
video anymore. Copying content is cheap and easy and there's no burden on
delivery. Instead, people who are really into it are getting closer to the
models and paying them directly.

There's a whole range of ways you can support your favourite model now, from
$5/month snapchat "access" all the way to $4000/hr "meetups" in Nevada. The
purpose of the free video is just to draw you in - maybe it will turn you into
a subscriber, maybe you'll send them a gift, or maybe you're just window
shopping.

The only people hurting are the skeezy producers, middlemen, and digital
pimps. The porn industry is dying and is being replaced with this new model of
"para-prostitution".

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pgeezy
Jon Ronson recently did an excellent podcast series about this:
[http://www.jonronson.com/butterfly.html](http://www.jonronson.com/butterfly.html)

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Overtonwindow
I think the future or porn (i.e. The money) is in personalization. Porn for
you, by your favorite performers, customized to your liking. The cam sites are
the best positioned to capitalize on this but only if they start bringing
order to the Wild West of cams.

~~~
forapurpose
> personalization

Apparently it's already a widespread business and The Guardian published this
article about it. It's an amazing, at times heart-breaking story about what
people need, and in a way it's only tangentially about porn:

[https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/jul/29/jon-
ronson-b...](https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/jul/29/jon-ronson-
bespoke-porn-nothing-is-too-weird-all-requests)

(It's not at all a catalog of fetishes, in case that's what you
expect/want/fear.)

~~~
dgut
The story about the mother leaving her two children is too sad. Sometimes I
wonder if the quickest way to end humankind's pain is to just stop existing as
a whole... No matter how well-off you are, there are N humans in great pain
somewhere else, and you can never be sure your descendants wouldn't have to
experience great pain in the future.

~~~
twic
That reasoning is a pretty substantial part of why i don't want children. Then
there's this lot:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Mov...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement)

~~~
MichaelGG
Except people with worse mindsets are not following your footsteps. People
conscious of this problem should have many kids, raise them well to improve
civilization, if you want to minimise suffering.

Of course if a physical solution to ending existence without introducing a lot
of suffering can be found, even better.

~~~
dgut
That's quite naive. You are just a pawn in this world, chaos is the dominant
factor, and you'll be drawn to wherever the tide takes you. Just be happy you
were born in this particular time and place because history shows peace is the
exception, not the rule.

What you are saying is one of the two only noble options we really should
consider though.

------
nkurz
Presumably the link is really to the first answer ([https://www.quora.com/Why-
is-there-so-much-free-porn-on-the-...](https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-so-
much-free-porn-on-the-internet/answer/Garion-Hall)), which points out that the
porn Tube sites got their site by distributing stolen content, and then
leveraging their high traffic into closer-to-legal business strategy:

 _Then, the pay sites whose content had been stolen and was now being given
away for free, took notice (slower than they should have), and pressured the
Tube sites to remove content they did not have the right to use._

 _Because the industry has always been fragmented (that is, lots of small
players, owner-operators), it was impossible for there to be a consensus -
should we get together and sue the tube sites? Should we start our own tube
sites? Everyone was in it for themselves, and could not agree on how to work
with Tube sites._

 _Tube sites said, "Gosh, sorry, we did not realize this was stolen!" (ie,
bullshit), "how about we let you place an ad above it for free for your site,
and you let us keep the video?". Some pay site operators were okay with this,
got 5,000 clicks and a few joins each day. Other pay site operators arranged
for the Tube sites to become affiliates: Tube sites get 50% of each sale made
from clicking on the ad, so long as there were prominent ads around the video
for the pay site. Other pay site operators requested all their content be
removed, and the tube sites complied... slowly._

 _Now, in 2016, most pay sites feel they have to put some of their content on
Tube sites to get customers (the theory being, a prospective customer will see
their free video on a tube site, like the model / production style, and pay to
join the pay site). It works to a small degree, but tube sites have so much
traffic seeking porn, that there's virtually no other way to find customers._

It's interesting the degree to which this parallels the (mostly) non-porn
Youtube foundation story. For those who've forgotten (or weren't around for
it) a large proportion of the high-traffic content on Youtube was copyright
infringing. Youtube would take down individual videos upon complaint, but it
didn't really matter since another user would quickly repost the same content.

Youtube was then acquired by Google
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_YouTube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_YouTube)),
who used a similar strategy to convince the major copyright holders that it
was better to go with the flow rather than making a fuss. So far as I can
tell, this strategy has been wildly successful, and I see very few articles
warning about Youtube being sued out of existence.

~~~
consto
From my rather limited understanding, it's basically how crunchyroll also got
started.

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posterboy
The first fix is always free.

------
ajharrison
Because ads make people money.

