
Pentagon Expands Inquiry Into Intelligence on ISIS Surge - randomname2
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/22/us/politics/military-reviews-us-response-to-isis-rise.html?_r=0
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jimrandomh
People tend to think of there being a unified "US government", but the reality
is that there's a large number of mostly separate organizations connected only
loosely by a theme. Sometimes they lie to each other. Sometimes they lie to
the politicians in Washington, who are nominally in charge but who seem to
have less real power with every passing year.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
God I wish more people knew this and understood that it's a feature, not a bug
of our system.

In this case, that message is not quite exact because MAJCOM commanders have
the POTUS as their boss. But between state governors, POTUS, Congrees and the
Judiciary, there is an intentional and functional disconnect.

~~~
Nemcue
To the citizens of nations that are being bullied by those organisations it's
NOT a feature.

~~~
hguant
Right, but the concerns of those citizens quite frankly aren't a primary
concern of the United States.

~~~
nitrogen
Governments that maintain such shortsighted positions will eventually find
themselves superseded on the world stage.

~~~
vinceguidry
I'm curious, do you have any examples to point to?

~~~
nitrogen
It's based on intuition and is only a response to the direct parent comment.
If the US of .3 billion people ignores the needs of 6.7 billion people,
eventually those people will find a way to escape the needs of the US.

I'll note that the HN article title used to be significantly different, so
some of the conversation makes less sense without the "accused of lying to the
president" in the title.

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randomname2
Summary: US Central Command is accused of lying to the President and Congress
about airstrikes and the ground fight against ISIS, obscuring the fact that
America’s strategy to combat ISIS simply was not effective, as "senior
officials" at Centcom were determined to "overstate the progress of American
airstrikes against ISIS."

In September, The Guardian reported that the tendency for Centcom to provide
upbeat assessments of the fight against ISIS may have been influenced by James
Clapper (Director of national intelligence), who was "said to talk nearly
every day with Grove – 'which is highly, highly unusual', according to a
former intelligence official." ([http://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2015/sep/10/james-clapper...](http://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2015/sep/10/james-clapper-pentagon-military-official))

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otakucode
I don't understand why anyone would be surprised by this. This is par for the
course in intelligence. The intelligence agencies exist to provide whatever
fiction those in power wish to hear. In the 80s, the CIA determined that the
USSR was a paper tiger destined for collapse. But Reagan wanted an enemy. So
the higher-ups at the CIA took the report by the head of their USSR division
and threw it away, crafting their own fictional representation of the USSR as
a powerhouse. This is why every major world event comes as a huge surprise to
the CIA and other intelligence agencies. It doesn't surprise any of the
analysts working there, they actually know what is going on most of the time.
But because the truth is not politically convenient, the agency as a whole
cannot be made to seem like a danger to the political machinations of those
who influence their funding. Some of the gymnastics this involves are
sometimes funny. Reading the CIAs reports on Iran's 'nuclear weapons program',
for instance, are an adventure in absurdism. Pile after pile of pages of
extensive descriptions of total knowledge of Iran's operations culminating in
not a single shred of evidence of any weapons program gets topped off with
"but then again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There could
be a super-duper-extra-top-secret weapons program buried 50 miles underground"
which gives the politicos and media the ability to report it as "CIA says Iran
may have secret weapons program in new report!"

Oh, and that head of the CIAs USSR division whose report showing the truth of
the USSRs weakness was Aldritch Aimes. It was at that point that he realized
the intelligence game was a sham and just being used to lend an air of
mystique and 'secret knowledge' to whatever position those in power want to
make seem legitimate and decided if everyone else was just playing a game, he
might as well play to, and cut a deal with the Russians to act as a double
agent.

~~~
randomname2
The article says intelligence/Centcom lied to the President and to Congress,
how exactly is this is par for the course?

~~~
CamperBob2
I think the leadup to the Iraq war taught us everything we need to know about
the CIA. They're appointed by the executive. They report to the executive. Yet
every other branch of government relies on their assessments.

The CIA is merely a tool by which the President leads Congress around by the
nose. It's their _job_ to lie. What's harder to understand is why Congress
continually falls for whatever they're selling.

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rrggrr
It wouldn't suprise me to learn the Obama administration downplayed ISIS
purposefully. Nothing builds a coalition like a common enemy, and apart from
some disagreements over targeting, the key players (Iran, Russia, Europe,
Turkey) are coordinating efforts to destroy ISIS. Economic necesssity requires
the US defense establishment to downsize, and after decades of costly wars in
the middle east, there really is no option but to let others lead this fight.

I suspect the administration is now rebuilding and retooling for high
intensity conflict, and that Syria/ISIS is a distraction the US doesn't need
but a conflict that requires regional actors to form a coalition. To which:
[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-22/russia-
cal...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-22/russia-calls-for-un-
brokered-moves-in-fighting-terror-ifx-says)

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cowardlydragon
Since operations in Iraq are just a government fraud / boondoggle by the
Pentagon and it's incestuous corporate leeches, this bad attempt at coverup
isn't surprising

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oxide
Is this not treasonous?

~~~
koenigdavidmj
What person, owing allegiance to the US, is levying war against them or giving
their enemies aid or comfort?

~~~
oxide
Since we call whistleblowers traitors, maybe we should call yes men traitors
too.

