
Lithuanian capital to be turned into vast open-air cafe - edward
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/28/lithuanian-capital-to-be-turned-into-vast-open-air-cafe-vilnius
======
PeterStuer
From the opposite side of the spectrum, meet Antwerp Belgium.

First thing they did under the guise of "Corona measures' was lift the low
emission zone so the most heavily polluting vehicles could once again roam
free in the city, and make all on street parking free.

Their pretends that this was 'to give maximal access to care workers' fell
flat immediately as all caseworkers that needed city access already had
complying vehicles, and they now have trouble finding spaces to park as all
streets are just permanently filled with long-term parked cars. Yet, they
still persist with the idiocy.

~~~
acqq
> they still persist with the idiocy

Also, according to
[https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries)

is Belgium at this moment, except for San Marino of only 30,000 inhabitants,
the country with _the highest death rate in the world from coronavirus
epidemics_ , per million of population:

San Marino: 1,208

Belgium: 655

Spain: 519

Italy: 458

UK: 384

France: 369

Netherlands: 275

Sweden: 244

USA: 186

Germany: 77

Greece: 13

I believe, if the rest of the world is not much aware of that fact, that also
says _something_ about Belgian politics. I'd love to read more about the
perspective of Belgians here.

Edit: see also [https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-
maps](https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps) which I explain in the later
post -- that independent, different statistics is, approximately, not
disproving the ratios for the European countries, _except for the UK_ , where
it seems there was some kind of underreporting of Covid-19 related deaths.

~~~
toasted_flakes
Belgium counts all deaths from care homes as COVID-19 deaths. Hardly a fair
comparison, even if I have my gripes with the politics.

~~~
acqq
[https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52466471/page/3](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52466471/page/3)

"29 Apr: The death toll from the virus in the UK rises to more than 26,000
after _care home deaths are included for first time_ "

Apart from that, luckily, we have also "all deaths" (for any reason
whatsoever) statistics for participating EU countries (and, still, UK), so we
can compare these too:

[https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps](https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-
maps)

Even there Belgium has had quite high z-score ("computed on the de-trended and
de-seasonalized series"), although there are two obviously worse at the peak:
UK (much worse and without any indication of improving at the moment,
according to the available statistics) and Spain, which already improved.

At the moment it seems to me that it was mostly the UK that just didn't report
correctly, not that the others overreported.

~~~
Johnjonjoan
I'm not sure on the Belgium situation but there is quite the lag between death
and reporting of these care home numbers. For a care home death to be counted
towards the coronavirus total a death certificate is required which takes
time.

There has also been a large deal of controversy over the counting of care home
deaths in the UK with the government consistently being called out by care
home operators for unbelievable care home death numbers.

~~~
acqq
> There has also been a large deal of controversy over the counting of care
> home deaths in the UK with the government consistently being called out by
> care home operators for unbelievable care home death numbers.

Do you have something about "unbelievable"? Per BBC:

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52284281](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52284281)

"There is a two-week time lag in the data collected for official statistics.
The most recent figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) are for
the week ending 17 April. At that point, there had been 3,096 Covid-19-related
deaths in care homes in England and Wales."

"the Care Quality Commission (CQC)" "already has to be notified when there is
a death in a care home. It is also now asking care providers to give daily
updates on deaths and the number of confirmed and suspected coronavirus cases.

Between 10 and 25 April, their findings show that 4,343 individuals died in
care homes from coronavirus."

Looking at euromomo, it appears to me that the UK did not report some deaths
related to Covid-19, the question is only where exactly.

Edit: to pjc50:

> San Marino lost 1,208 people (so far) out of 30k?

No. See again: [https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/san-
marino...](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/san-marino/)
Total deaths: 41 == 0.12 percent == 1,208 per million

------
jd115
I found this even more brilliant: "Vilnius authorities have also given the
city’s public health workers €400,000-worth (£350,000) of restaurant vouchers
intended both as gesture of thanks for their work and a much-needed stimulus
to the city’s cafes."

London should do more of this. Every city should do more of this.

~~~
smcl
Do those lunch/meal vouchers exist at all in the UK? Many workers here in
Czech Republic get them as a work benefit, and I suspect this is what they're
referring to. It varies per employer but we get roughly one ticket per working
day, worth 110kč ($4.40, or €4) and they're valid in pretty much every
restaurant in the city so basically everyone goes out for lunch.

When I was in the UK they didn't have anything like this.

~~~
baud147258
We have them in France too, but half is payed by the employee (taken from the
salary). But we can also use them when buying groceries (not all supermarkets
accept them, but a lot of them do)

~~~
smcl
Yep same deal as us, a mix of employer/employee contributions pay for them,
they can be used for some items in supermarket (not for things like alcohol)
and I think the employer contribution is tax exempt too

~~~
neltnerb
I have never heard of this before. It is fascinating to me that health care
gets decoupled from employment but eating is considered an employment benefit.

I don't really object or anything, it just seems out of character.

Wouldn't it be better if the government did this directly by the same logic
you'd apply to health care? Making employee meals tax deductible instead of
just giving everyone a government funded food benefit sounds much more like
what I'd expect in the US.

~~~
smcl
It's an interesting comparison, but I don't really think it's in the same
ballpark as healthcare being provided by your employer. It's cheap (less than
$90/month for mine) and it's optional - nobody's dying or going bankrupt
because they don't have _stravenky_. It's better to think of it like the free
coffee, fruit, breakfast and snacks you might have in your office. I'm sure
_someone_ 's made an argument that they'd rather get a few extra bucks each
month than have free coffee in the office, but not many :-)

"Making employee meals tax deductible" sounds like I have to keep receipts of
what I ate and file them with my taxes to receive the benefit. But it's just
that some amount of the value of these vouchers is subtracted from the
subtotal used to calculate my income tax.

It's a small thing, but honestly it's a really nice benefit

~~~
neltnerb
Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you'd deduct it from personal
taxes. In the US, health insurance paid by your employer is automatically
deducted from your taxes so it is analogous.

The small amount almost makes it stranger, why not just give the benefit to
everyone? Food seems like it would be a basic necessity comparable to
healthcare, especially when you're talking about such a small amount, and it
boosts the local economy just as much if it's coming from an employed person
as an unemployed person.

Edit: But yes, I see your point about it being intended to be analogous to
"snacks in the office" or whatever. It just seems very strange that it would
be in widespread use but tied to your employer. It does sound nice. I just
don't understand why it's employer run if it's a cultural expectation.

~~~
smcl
You make a good point though, in an ideal world[0] the next step might be the
government stepping up to provide something like this to everyone. Remember
that what the government is "paying" here (or rather waiving) is the _tax_ on
that, not the entire amount (so I dunno, $9 instead of $90). The government
here isn't spectacularly wealthy though so I don't know if they'd be able to
fund the full amount without raising taxes, which would be a tough sell.

[0] = my idea of an ideal world is very subjective so might not match up with
everyone else's!

~~~
neltnerb
Yeah, I assume trying to convince people to change will run into roadblocks.

Of course the solution seems like the same as getting publicly funded
healthcare in the US -- raise taxes by an amount that offsets the benefit,
people with higher pay take a small loss while people who are unemployed or
low income get stable help buying food.

Definitely not recommending fighting over that given the stakes, I assume
unemployed people get reasonably generous government funded assistance with
paying for food? As long as that's the case it just seems... odd... but not
that strange, my partner works for GrubHub and gets a weekly benefit to
subsidize personal meals. But the US has a totally different attitude about
how employers should support employees so it doesn't really stand out here at
all.

------
ashtonkem
Hopefully some of it remains after. Car centered cities are awful for human
beings, we should reclaim some of this space for us.

~~~
lampe3
Hello from Vilnius, the City already has parking zones. As a normal person its
very hard to park in the City center. Here is some information:
[https://www.govilnius.lt/plan-your-trip/getting-
around/parki...](https://www.govilnius.lt/plan-your-trip/getting-
around/parking-in-vilnius)

Also, some streets are already car-free and only delivery vehicals can enter
them.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Traffic in Vokieciu, Traku, etc streets is a shit show. I've been advocating
for ages the old town needs to be shut completely. It has such an amazing
potential if not for stupid cars there.

That said, Vilnius needs to improve traffic hotspots a lot. Rush hours exist
everywhere, but Vilnius is noticeably bad. Bus lanes needs better isolation
too (some form of Rapid Bus implementation).

~~~
lampe3
True that we have a lot of traffic there but also it's not that bad as in
other cities I have lived in.

What I think Vilnius needs is a metro. Since you can not just create new road
lanes in the old town.

------
v3nom
Adding more bike paths to reach city center from suburbs and locking down city
center for cars should follow next. There are plenty of research which shows
that slow traffic brings more business to shops

~~~
mantas
Oldtown is mostly for tourists/partying nowadays (as in before the whole
Corona mess). Offices and everyday shops/services are moving out for the past
2 decades. Living downtown is getting less and less desirable too because
students are priced out while older folks don't want 24/7 party all around. No
bike paths will change that.

On the bright side, no sane person drives into oldtown for a looong time.
Especially after recent raise of parking fees. Quite a few streets are already
car-free. Transit traffic is going to be banned any time now (said for the
past 5 or 10 years, but eventually it will happen).

As for bike paths, few neighbourhoods were well connected for decade+. More
and more connections are being built. Terrain and city density is not exactly
friendly though. Downtown is, well, down in a valley. While banks ain't truly
steep, living in a flat country it is quite a mental stop. On top of that,
lots of people live in soviet-era blocks 5km+ from downtown. Add that bike
paths ain't bee-line straight and it ends up a 30min+ ride one way for a beer.

------
dangerbird2
Kills two birds with one stone: gives restaurants an ability to conduct
business safely, and takes advantage of the current drop in vehicle traffic to
make Vilnius more pedestrian-friendly. I'd love to see cities in the U.S. do
this.

------
totetsu
My skim reading eyes say this as "Lithuanian capital to be turned into vast
open-aircraft carrier" for a second. Next thing Vilnius will be making port
calls to Taipei, and throwing forklifts overboard in international waters.

~~~
vgaldikas
We should definitely suggest this to our mayor :D

~~~
rimliu
If that were Zuokas, definitely.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Aaaah the only Ig Nobel Prize winner in Lithuania!

~~~
sitkack
For those following along from the side,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art%C5%ABras_Zuokas#Awards_and...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art%C5%ABras_Zuokas#Awards_and_honors)

------
jamespullar
Portland, OR is planning on closing 100 miles of streets to help provide space
for social distancing. I hope that from all this we get more initiatives
around the world like this.

[https://beta.portland.gov/eudaly/news/2020/4/28/transportati...](https://beta.portland.gov/eudaly/news/2020/4/28/transportation-
commissioner-chloe-eudaly-announces-new-slow-streetssafe)

------
ConsiderCrying
I'm still not sure how I'm feeling about ending the lockdown this early, but
the initiative is great and I'm glad to see the government helping its people
and businesses. Not to mention that last paragraph. How feasible is it for
other countries and cities to do it?

~~~
C19is20
I agree. Several elements of lockdown are being lifted in italy on monday.
Watching the people in my street thinking it's all over now...well, it soon
may be. No proper distancing, kids from different families playing together -
in the streets, but also in communal hallways so you have to ask them to move
before you can pass. People thinking that being on one side of a fence
protects you. Trying to tell people the threat is still there, it's just that
the hospitals are slightly better prepared, doesn't mean we're anywhere near
the end.

------
topbanana
If you haven't been, it's a beautiful city.

------
acd
Way to go Lithuania and great idea!

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dotpot
this is awesome!

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OJFord
How does one dine at an open-air café or retaurant while wearing a mask?

~~~
icebraining
One doesn't, which is why the tables will be spaced.

~~~
OJFord
My point was that TFA also says masks must be worn in public spaces.

~~~
karolist
There's an exception when seated at an open cafe

------
EGreg
I think you meant to write “capitol”

~~~
taejo
The article refers to

capital, 3. (countable) A city designated as a legislative seat by the
government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is
located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision
of it.

not

capitol, 2. (US) Any building or complex of buildings in which a legislature
meets.

[Definitions from English Wiktionary]

Being a UK newspaper, the Guardian would probably use "Lithuanian parliament
buildings" or similar if that's what they meant.

