
Companies that feed America brace for labor shortages and worry about restocking - hhs
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/13/food-supply-shortage-coronavirus/
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finaliteration
There’s a lot of discussion about flattening the curve to lessen the impact on
healthcare providers and hospitals. Wouldn’t the same sort of thinking apply
for grocery stores and food supplies? It seems like people need to stop
stockpiling and hoarding food so the most vulnerable people from an economic
standpoint (who likely don’t have the means to stock up for weeks or months)
can still have access to it.

~~~
xenospn
Both of these points rely on people acting rational in the face of the
unknown. I think it's safe to assume this is not going to happen.

~~~
mlthoughts2018
I disagree. These are classic game theory problems where what is unilaterally
rational doesn’t optimize group welfare. You need rationing and market
intervention. The problem is relying on capitalism for distribution based on
aggregated price signals.

~~~
xenospn
Did you also factor in the fact that this is America, where people own guns
and believe they have a god given right to use them?

~~~
pmoriarty
What exactly are they going to do with those guns that'll get them more food?

Looting and robbing, even were they to get away with it, will only get them a
limited amount when there's virtually no food to be had.

I don't think guns are going to be the solution here.

~~~
xenospn
Skip to the front of the line? Raid their neighbors' house? Again, people will
not be rational and if things escalate (which I don't think they will) they
will revert back to tribalism very, very quickly.

~~~
SamReidHughes
Private gun ownership does much more to reduce looting than contribute to it.
This has been seen time and time again in America.

But anyhow, food supplies aren't drying up, and there is plenty of workforce
available with other businesses slowing down.

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netcan
Since this is going to play out over time, won't we reach a point where people
are basically stocked up.. and the more avid shoppers have already filled
their pantries?

We're going to keep shopping at this rate for months, are we? After all, we
don't eat more than we usually do.

~~~
i_am_proteus
My concern is local disruptions in supply and food availability. Three days
without food won't kill you, but it certainly will change your outlook on
life.

There are a number of "pinch points" in the supply chain, vulnerable to
employees getting sick, that (coupled with inventory problems from hoarding)
could easily result in reduced local supply for a week or two.

~~~
dillonmckay
There are only a few companies the control the majority of the US food supply,
and seem to rely heavily on hourly workers for logistics.

I don’t know the sick-leave policies of Kroger, Walmart, Publix, or Aldi, but
there does not seem to be a high-availability, fault tolerant system to handle
an entire workforce being unavailable for weeks at a time.

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HarryHirsch
Can we talk about illegal immigrants in the vegetable farming and meat
industry? They constitute a major part of the workforce but have no rights and
no access to healthcare in the time of coronavirus.

~~~
gruez
>no access to healthcare in the time of coronavirus.

aren't emergency rooms required to treat patients regardless of whether
they're able to pay?

~~~
49531
ERs in the US primarily act as triage and stabilization centers for
emergencies. Treatment for chronic illness or preventative care can't reliably
be found in an ER.

An anecdote, the last time I had to go to an ER in the US was when I cut the
flexor tendon in my pinky, I knew it was severed but since it wasn't life
threatening they stopped the bleeding, put some liquid stitches in the cut,
wrapped and braced it and sent me on my way.

I had to wait until the weekend was over to see my primary care doctor which I
have access to because I have insurance / money.

~~~
gruez
> ERs in the US primarily act as triage and stabilization centers for
> emergencies. Treatment for chronic illness or preventative care can't
> reliably be found in an ER.

I get that, but how is that relevant when it comes to the coronavirus? It's
not like it's a chronic condition. If you had it and were experiencing
pneumonia, I doubt you'd be turned away for being undocumented.

~~~
MikeTheGreat
This is my understanding, but I'd love to hear what others have to say:

My understanding is that the coronavirus is viral, not microbial, so we don't
have any medicine to cure it directly (antibiotics don't work on it).

In addition, the risk is from having a respiratory problem, either from this
or from something else (like pneumonia).

So if you get coronavirus then the basic treatment is to put you in a hospital
to help your body live through the respiratory problem until your body can
fight off the virus on it's own.

That's why there's so much emphasis on slowing the growth and flattening the
curve. If (when) all the hospital beds fill up then whoever doesn't get in
will have a much tougher time surviving, and there's no treatment other than
having people lay in a hospital bed for a couple weeks.

tl;dr: It's not a chronic condition, but you'll need several weeks of
intensive care to survive. ERs themselves just diagnose, treat what they can
in the moment, and then send people home or on to the hospital.

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drummer
The coronavirus has exposed the herdmentality of most people worldwide.
Especially the hoarding of toilet paper. Major hysteria for a simple flu
virus. At least we got some good memes out of it.

------
sand_castles
Start paying people 40 USD / hour and watch even people in wheelchair start
walking.

~~~
epicureanideal
Except California has price gouging laws that make it illegal to increase
prices more than 10% in an emergency situation. Good luck doubling or tripling
wages with that 10% margin.

Price gouging laws should have a very high ceiling to ensure legitimate
business needs can be met, to compensate workers for increased risks and or
extra shifts.

~~~
lalaland1125
Please stop spreading misinformation. The price gouging laws allow prices to
increase without limit to pay for increased wages or costs:
[https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/pricegougingduringdisasters#8C](https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/pricegougingduringdisasters#8C)

~~~
graeme
“Can prove”. “May not be liable”. Sounds like a hassle, and uncertain.
Especially given the prevailing mob mentality against raising prices in an
emergency.

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pmoriarty
I do wonder how long the general public, many of whom are now sitting at home
on their ass all day, are going to continue doing so and let themselves, their
families and friends, and the rest of the nation starve, instead of taking a
risk and volunteering to help make and deliver food.

The divisive, isolationist, "only me and my immediate friends and family
matter" attitude that is so prevalent in America starkly shows its corrosive
effects in crisis.

~~~
pengaru
Social distancing or voluntary unnecessary exposure to help others, which is
it gonna be?

~~~
jborichevskiy
Yup.

Also, would love to hear how I, as a quarantined software developer in an
apartment in one of the densest metro areas in the U.S., can "help make and
deliver food" in a way that doesn't kill even more people in the process.

~~~
pmoriarty
Not all food has to be made by hand. There's a lot of machinery that can make
it, and food could be run through pasteurization and other disinfection
processes (such as irradiation) to kill off any pathogens.

This machinery has to be operated by somebody, and people can be trained to do
it. It takes people willing and able to do it, however.

Also, once delivered the food doesn't have to be eaten right away. The virus
only lasts a certain number of hours or days (I've heard estimates of up to
two weeks). After that, it can be eaten safely even if it was contaminated
with the virus when it was made. Of course, that means perishable food that
won't last that long is out of the question, but other food that can last
should be fine.

~~~
jborichevskiy
> After that, it can be eaten safely even if it was contaminated with the
> virus when it was made. Of course, that means perishable food that won't
> last that long is out of the question, but other food that can last should
> be fine.

This makes sense, I don't disagree.

But to my limited understanding most large scale food prep & processing
happens well outside of city limits. Apart from some bakeries and doughnut
shops I imagine most of what I find on the shelves of common grocery stores is
largely shipped in via complex distributions chains originating either a) much
closer to the farms/source ingredients or b) outside the state/country
entirely.

> This machinery has to be operated by somebody, and people can be trained to
> do it. It takes people willing and able to do it, however.

So if things start going _really_ bad (ie, large scale interruptions in
production AND delivery) then yes, your situation starts to apply where I, a
software developer, might have to trek out hundreds of miles somehow and start
learning and operating food production equipment. I'm not saying I would
refuse to do it -- but things would have to get incredibly bad for that to be
a reality. To my knowledge there is nobody seriously predicting collapse on
that level.

