

Why I Will Never Return to the USA - w1ntermute
http://dasmag.nl/why-i-will-never-return-to-the-usa/

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tribeofone
I was on a bus over from Montreal, we were all in a big room after they had
emptied the bus. One guy was born in Cuba and was Canadian now. The border
guard asked him how he got to Canada? The guy says 'What do you mean?', and
the border guard replies, 'How did you get to Canada, did you swim over?'
Another guy had gotten a DUI in '79 in Canada, and the Guard was asking him
about it in front of everyone. No joke, these guys may be doing their job, but
they are a bunch of assholes, even to US citizens, and they are outside the
law - you can be detained indefinitely at a border crossing without any
probable cause, US citizen or not.

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millzlane
This makes me never want to leave the US. I fear that I will be scrutinized at
the border and not be allowed back. Is so ridiculous I drive down the street
when a police officer gets behind me I get really anxious and will sometimes
go off route just so they're not behind me.

I was born in Germany to two American parents that were in the military. So
I'm afraid they may send me back to "where I came from".

~~~
melling
I'm a little confused. Are you a US citizen? If you're ever refused at the
border, there are other channels. One guy at one point of entry doesn't
ultimately decide your fate.

~~~
tadfisher
You can't actually be refused at the border if you are a citizen.

~~~
w1ntermute
You can be detained indefinitely for no reason, even if you're a citizen.
Habeas corpus and probable cause don't apply.

~~~
tadfisher
Are you referring to the 2012 NDAA? Because that specific provision (that
denies habeas corpus under the AUMF) has yet to be tested in court, and is
unlikely to pass Supreme Court review.

~~~
w1ntermute
From
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception)

> The United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP), ICE-HSI Special
> Agents, and Coast Guard officers (E4 grade and above) who are all customs
> officers (those tasked with enforcing Title 19 of the United States Code)
> with the United States Department of Homeland Security, are permitted to
> search travelers and their belongings at the American border without
> probable cause or a warrant.

And the "border" isn't just what you might think of as the border
([https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-
co...](https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-constitution-
free-zone)):

> According to the government, it is a 100-mile wide strip that wraps around
> the “external boundary” of the United States.

Thus, we have a "constitution-free zone" in the US, where 197 million
Americans reside ([https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-
zone...](https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-zone-map)).
Within this region, the Fourth Amendment is invalid.

If you Google the term "constitution-free zone", you can find numerous
articles detailing the experiences various US citizens have had while
traveling within the US (with no intention of crossing any national borders)
of being stopped by federal agents from one of the groups listed above (CBP,
ICE-HSI, Coast Guard) and being subjected to a search in violation of the
Fourth Amendment.

Also: [http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-
border-...](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-
seizures/)

~~~
tadfisher
I understand, but none of what you cite refers to indefinite detention.

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pan69
Most customs personal I have encountered are assholes. This isn't much because
of policy, it's simply because you're mostly low educated morons who can't
deal with the responsibility of authority and will therefore abuse this
position at every chance possible.

A lot of these stories crop up in regards to the US but the same thing happens
here in Australia and in New Zealand as well.

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jmadsen
A good read if you are actually concerned:

[https://www.aclu.org/files/kyr/kyr_english_5.pdf](https://www.aclu.org/files/kyr/kyr_english_5.pdf)

~~~
triplesec
This is a Know Your Rights pdf from the ACLU, for those who would like to know
before clicking.

------
ilianh
Hey if you need anything in mtl let me know.

