
Firefox Reality Now Available - TD-Linux
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2018/09/18/firefox-reality-now-available/
======
protomikron
Hm, I don't get it.

There is maybe a use case for VR to add immersion for games (like space sims
or racing games), but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at
a 2D canvas?

I mean it's a nice tech demo, but it seems like the 2000ish hype around these
3D-cube window managers that ... looked cool, but otherwise don't add anything
to your workflow. Do people really want to _work_ (e.g. develop) with a VR in
a 3D environment?

~~~
larsberg
One of the biggest things we've found that people like to do in VR is private
viewing. They'll collect links of videos all day and then come home to watch
them on a "big screen" but don't have a laptop or TV that supports miracast,
so use a VR headset. Or they like to watch twitch streamers or their favorite
movie providers or just bounce around searching content.

As the hardware becomes more mature, we'll support more use cases, but we
wanted to enable some compelling early use cases (especially voice search) and
learn from users as soon as we could.

~~~
martinald
A $15 chromecast can easily enable this? I'm surprised this is an actual use
case.

~~~
johntash
A $15 chromecast + a TV or monitor that someone may not have/want for whatever
reason. A chromecast wouldn't be private either if you have other people in
your household.

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joshumax
Another thing to check out in this area is JanusVR. The thing about Janus is
that it makes the internet navicable from an immersive perspective. Granted
this requires adding FireBoxRoom code to your site in order to make everything
3D, but it does seem to fit the VR "paradigms" a bit better than what I'm
seeing here from Firefox.

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nobody271
The main problem with web browsing in VR is it's way too low resolution to
read text and you can't see your hands so you have to type everything in with
that remote character by bloody freaking character.

But I guess, if you want to browse the web in VR you might as well do it in
Firefox.

~~~
wpietri
Sorry to be dense, but why would one want do to web browsing in VR at all?
It's all built on a metaphor of flat sheets of paper, so it's paradigmatically
2D.

~~~
skrebbel
I want to be _working_ in VR. Once the resolution gets decent enough I can
just get 20 screens wherever I look. Plus I can sit, stand, whatever. Sounds
fantastic. Coffee might get a bit cumbersome though.

A straw, maybe?

~~~
protomikron
> Once the resolution gets decent enough I can just get 20 screens wherever I
> look.

Isn't that stressful on your neck? In the current environment you can also
have 20 screens and switch via key-combinations or using the mouse.

~~~
fabatka
I think this problem is solved already, see this video about TrackIR from 1:00
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AO0F5sLdVM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AO0F5sLdVM)
(it is called motion scaling). Of course people may still get injuries from
this if they do it for 40 hours a week...

~~~
jhomedall
In VR that would likely make you violently ill

------
jedieaston
Are they not bringing it to SteamVR? Most Vive owners don't use viveport
(outside of China), due to the spooky services it puts on your machine.

~~~
ngokevin
We have a VR-only browser on launched on SteamVR (Vive) / Oculus Store (Rift).
Relevant to HN, we went through a recent YC batch. Still early but focused on
6DOF headsets, and ignoring 2D for now.

[http://store.steampowered.com/app/803010/Supermedium/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/803010/Supermedium/)

------
tokyodude
FYI, a similar feature has been available for months in Chrome on Android
under a flag. I don't remember which ones. Maybe

chrome://flags/#vr-browsing-native-android-ui

and

chrome://flags/#vr-browsing-tab-view

basically once enabled Chrome will show up as an app in the Daydream app
launcher in VR

I've only used it on Daydream but it's nice to be able to search in VR, use a
virtual keyboard, and also run WebVR pages all without leaving VR.

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cygx
That's nice and all, but now that the hardware has caught up, where are the
collaborative multi-user 3d hyperspaces à la Croquet Project/Open Cobalt?

~~~
sciurus
Check out this project, also from Mozilla's emerging technology team:
[https://hubs.mozilla.com/](https://hubs.mozilla.com/)

(Disclosure: I work for Mozilla)

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bluejekyll
Out of curiosity, is this the project the Servo team got folded into?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that they were being put onto a VR
project.

~~~
lastontheboat
Yes, but this release doesn't include any of that work that is not already in
upstream Firefox.

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sebringj
This reminds me of animating paperback book pages as a transition to directly
linking web pages. The paradigm is leaking over to the new one where the new
one doesn't have a good way to do it yet. Instead, I would have a hall with
portals you could zoom up to as you wave your hand out in front of you, kind
of like the iWatch but not sure the puke factor.

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fijal
Would be really cool if you could just, you know, download the program and run
it, not have to go through Viveport at all.

~~~
larsberg
While we are on Viveport Mobile and all other relevant stores, a developer can
always either build from sources or sideload the browser -
[https://github.com/MozillaReality/FirefoxReality/wiki/Sidelo...](https://github.com/MozillaReality/FirefoxReality/wiki/Sideload)

------
daniel_iversen
Doesn’t look that great in the screenshots to be honest - would be nice if
it’s not just a gimmick because “we can” but some new paradigm of more
effectively and immersive Ly consume the web... I mean - the kind of
distraction free “reader mode” that you do in Safari, imagine if you had that
in VR and then a 3D way to navigate between web docs/pages based on the links
on the current page and smart topics - a bit like Ted Nelson’s Xanadu[1]
project from the 60s or whenever - the real vision behind hypertext!

EDIT: [1]: Bit is history on Xanadu
[https://www.wired.com/1995/06/xanadu/](https://www.wired.com/1995/06/xanadu/)
\- and there’s a video of it somewhere and you can/could even download a real
demo of it on floppy disk I seem to recall

~~~
dgzl
> would be nice if it's not just a gimmick

I mean, this is the future, right?

~~~
usrusr
Don't you mean _was_ the future?

I have no idea what the current future is, all I know is that is doesn't
include 3D TV sets and tablet computers replacing PCs (apparently, the PC can
decline all on its own)

~~~
dgzl
If I were to guess, I imagine room-sized VR is the next step.

------
orcs
Is this just another Firefox OS? It strikes me as another side project they'll
abandon later.

I can understand Firefox OS, I wish they'd persevered, but I don't really get
this.

On its own I don't think this makes sense. Maybe in the context of an in game
browser.

But then who am I to comment.

~~~
moosingin3space
I'll admit to not being particularly well-acquainted with VR, but a few
observations:

1) This is being used as a target for Servo. Even if it ends up being useless
(I won't pretend to be able to predict the future), the investigation into
getting consistent 90+ FPS performance out of web rendering engines,
regardless of content, is going to be excellent for the web. VR is a
challenging environment for the Servo team to prove its technological prowess,
and for many engineers, a challenging environment is exactly the kind of
motivation necessary to push at boundaries.

2) Mozilla missed the "social" hype train and their mobile OS project was
widely considered too little, too late (not to mention the terrible
performance of mobile web engines at the time). Both of these areas are
dominated by large, (effectively) proprietary vendors. Facebook's purchase of
Oculus signaled to many that "social" was going to move to yet another
platform. Mozilla's goal here is to get out in front of a potential VR hype
train, keeping the open web as a major player in order to keep their mission
relevant.

3) Mozilla believes the web is the ultimate platform for connecting people. It
is one of the few markets with a political landmap that encourages
collaboration between the multiple players. Therefore, for Mozilla, the
capabilities of the web must always be expanded to prevent balkanization of
the Internet into product-specific networks, such as Apple's iMessage. I am
actually encouraged by their willingness to jump in front of VR, despite my
own belief that VR won't be as relevant as many prognosticators think.

This is my analysis, take it with multiple grains of salt.

------
a_imho
_At a time when people are questioning the impact of technology on their lives
and looking for leadership from independent organizations like Mozilla_

~~~
Traubenfuchs
Someone was paid to write that.

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gtramont
VRML, anyone? :-)

~~~
rpvnwnkl
I spent a good year of my free time in high school creating navigable 3D
worlds with VRML. Now it seems like noone has heard of it, and they’re next to
impossible to render.

What’s the latest scoop on VRML? I’m curious.

~~~
perilunar
VRML became X3D, which is still around though not very popular. X3D is pretty
much an XML translation of VRML.

There's project called X3DOM that uses JS and WebGL to view X3D models in the
browser without a plugin. [[https://www.x3dom.org](https://www.x3dom.org)]

I don't think it can view VRML files directly, but there are tools around to
convert VRML to X3D.

------
r41nbowdash
Low content post, but i can't shake off the feeling we've been there already

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqZpvOPI_aI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqZpvOPI_aI)

------
binarynate
Vuplex VR Browser (f.k.a. Viewport) for iOS and Android is also worth checking
out: [https://vuplex.com](https://vuplex.com)

It lets you create multiple windows and position / resize them.

~~~
hndude
FYI it looks like in the iOS store its still called Viewport. Can't speak for
the Android side though.

------
RobLach
I think it would be fascinating to study how old the people are who are into
this.

~~~
andybak
I'm 47

------
inawarminister
Hmm, if only PSVR on PC is properly supported...

Still, this is a nice project!

But I remember some kind of virtual reality webpage a year back or so, or was
it just custom made by some 4chan users back then?

------
amelius
I wonder what an obnoxious advertisement looks like in VR ...

------
_hardwaregeek
We're not that far off from a Gibson-esque cyberspace. Just a matter of
someone taking the time and effort.

------
eclectric
Browsing this on Nightly on Windows says: 'Warning: Potential Security Risk
Ahead'.

------
zwerdlds
Does anyone know if there's integration with WebGL?

~~~
TD-Linux
Yeah there is, if you go to some of the sites on the home page there's an
"enter VR" button, where the site does the equivalent of fullscreen for VR (it
enters VR mode and it's much like a VR app).

------
nkkollaw
Cool, another good-looking experiment that Mozilla will phase out a few months
after I start depending on it.

If I had a Euro for every time I started using a Mozilla project that got
cancelled...

~~~
cyborgx7
Hear hear.

That might be a big drawback of the very experimental release and fail method
of development. You eventually start loosing trust in an organization that
keeps giving you things, you make the effort to get used to them and then it
takes them away. I'm sure the learning they get from it is very valuable, but
you just spend a bunch time and energy and got nothing in the end.

~~~
nkkollaw
I completely lost trust, yes.

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adamrezich
Not seeing it in the Viveport store myself...

~~~
larsberg
Sorry - Firefox Reality is only currently available Viveport Mobile for all in
one / standalone devices.

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PedroBatista
Is this another Firefox OS moment?

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choicenotchance
Also will this be usable on Meta AR?

------
TekMol
Maybe get 2D right before dabbling with VR?

Firefox still does not support hardware encoding of videos on Linux. So when I
watch Youtube videos my CPU usage goes through the roof and I cannot watch HD.

xkcd even made a comic about it:
[https://xkcd.com/619/](https://xkcd.com/619/)

~~~
izym
I don't think the same teams are working on video decoding and VR browsing.

~~~
shady-lady
No but they're pulling funds from the same pot.

------
flukus
Just in time for the death of VR.

In any case, why does the browser need to be VR aware? This is a job that
should be left to the host OS or WM, not every client application.

~~~
dmarcos
VR is a new kind of media you will be able to embed in a web page. Like video
or sound. Browsers have to be able to render it.

~~~
dspig
LOL, sitting here with a VRML .wrl file I made in the late 90s. Maybe I can
finally open it again, without a browser plug-in this time :)

~~~
perilunar
You can. see my comment above:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18024485](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18024485)

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51lver
Awesome! I have all the parts in the bins, and now I have a reason to build a
VR rig!

But uh... I don't see linux on the compatibility lists, and I'm not using my
work mac for this, and my gaming windows computers are too old (XP), and with
lineageos on my phone without gapps... I'm not buying a bunch of proprietary
hardware to play with a new open technology so geez I guess I can't play with
it at all. Bummer.

~~~
dmarcos
Browser vendors don’t control drivers or hardware support on the different
OSs. VR is pretty much a Windows game today with limited and experimental Vive
support on OSX and Linux. I’m sure that Mozilla in particular is eager to
support linux.

~~~
jhasse
> I’m sure that Mozilla in particular is eager to support linux.

Why would you think that? Firefox treats its Linux version as a second-class
citizen (e.g. no hardware acceleration).

