
Secret doorway in UK Parliament leads to historical treasure trove - davnicwil
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51630630
======
noisy_boy
When I was a young boy, I had fantasies of such secret
doorways/passages/treasures being everywhere due to consumption of copious
stories/comics involving such plots. When I did visit old ruins/temples etc,
my searching eyes would be looking for that overlooked odd stone that was
waiting for centuries just to be pushed so that it can reveal its ancient
secrets.

Reading this discovery of the secret doorway sort of gave me a sense of
vicarious validation.

~~~
everyone
Me and my friend once discovered one when we were kids.. Dunno what age we
were, say 8.. We were exploring this abandoned country estate house that was
near his house.. In a library there was one shelf that was still filled with
books, turns they were fake books and the shelf was a door. It led to a stone
staircase going down to a little underground chapel.. It was super creepy at
the time.. Awesome experience tho. I still remember it obvs.

That house has since been done up and is a super posh hotel / golf course now.
Now called 'Faithlegg house hotel'.

~~~
MockObject
I wonder why anyone would take such pains to hide an innocent chapel.

~~~
jpollock
If it was in the UK, there was a period of time when the monarch was Catholic
and burned Protestants at the stake and then the monarch changed and then the
Catholics started getting burned. People of the "wrong" religion would have to
practice in secret.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_hole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_hole)

~~~
whatshisface
And ironically, the people who would be the best off would be the atheists who
were willing to pretend to go along with whatever was in control at the time.

------
lorenzhs
There's a great (long) article on the building of the Palace of Westminster at
[https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/01/a-tale-of-
decay...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/01/a-tale-of-decay-the-
houses-of-parliament-are-falling-down), on how new infrastructure has just
been added over time, never removing the old stuff because there's no time,
and—with plans being lost—how this results in new shafts being found every now
and then in the course of fixing leaks etc.

~~~
Drakar1903
Good to see both software architects and architecture architects run into same
issues with legacy stuff.

~~~
a3n
Blocking a hall is like commenting out code.

~~~
dnadler
Ha, more like putting it in a block like `if (debug == True) ...`

------
auiya
There is also a pathway under the Ministry of Defense building to the
preserved remains of Henry VIII's wine cellar. MoD is built on top of a
section of the former Whitehall palace. It's a cool site to see that's closed
off from the general public. I've been fortunate enough to visit, and it's
perfectly preserved. One day when the MoD is done with that building, perhaps
it will open to the public again. [http://stuffaboutlondon.co.uk/london/henry-
viiis-wine-cellar...](http://stuffaboutlondon.co.uk/london/henry-viiis-wine-
cellar/)

------
toyg
I wonder if the “graffiti artist” Tom Porter and the recorded stonemason
Thomas Parker, are actually the same person. A cockney accent interacting with
an RP ear would make Porter and Parker quite similar. Name misspellings of
labourers were likely very common before mass-education was introduced in late
XIX century.

~~~
foldr
>A cockney accent interacting with an RP ear would make Porter and Parker
quite similar

Not really? The first vowel and third consonant are different in both
dialects. (Note that while the 't' in Porter is subject to t-glottalization,
the 'k' in Parker isn't.)

~~~
toyg
I'm sure that 1) modern inflections were exactly the same 170 years ago, and
2) builders of all ages are extremely precise and well-educated writers that
would never mix up their letters.

I mean, even RP was barely formalized at that point...

~~~
barry-cotter
RP was in the process of being formalized at that point. It was a BBC project
(I exaggerate slightly)[1]. The Queen’s accent used to be distinctly non
Received Pronunciation if you listen to early twentieth century recordings.

Stone Masons would almost universally have been literate because you need to
engrave things. Half assed graffiti could be someone who was less a skilled
tradesman than a member of the guild but guild members would have been
expected to be able to read the Bible at least. Knowing how to spell your own
name is not a big thing if you can read the KJV. And t->k is not a sound shift
observed in historical language changes.

[1] RP probably received its greatest impetus, however, when it was selected
in 1922 by the BBC Advisory Committee on Spoken English as a broadcasting
standard – hence the origins of the term BBC English. The Committee believed
Standard English, spoken with an RP accent, would be the most widely
understood variety of English, both here in the UK and overseas. Members of
the committee were also conscious that choosing a regional accent might run
the risk of alienating some listeners.

[https://www.bl.uk/british-accents-and-
dialects/articles/rece...](https://www.bl.uk/british-accents-and-
dialects/articles/received-pronunciation)

~~~
toyg
_> RP was in the process of being formalized at that point. It was a BBC
project_

The first record of the term is from 1818 and the second decades later,
according to wikipedia, hence why I said "barely formalized". A concept of
upper-class English definitely existed, but it was certainly not as precise as
what we now know as RP, nor did it match modern RP - it was just in the same
ballpark, so to speak.

 _> Knowing how to spell your own name is not a big thing if you can read the
KJV._

Most labourers today can read much more than the KJV (and probably in a one-
off exam, I expect people were not re-tested every other week...) and still
mispellings are routine.

There are also 15 years between inscription and official recording, and
changing name in the UK has always been extremely easy, so there is also the
chance that Tom Porter might have tweaked his name to sound different after 15
years around the upper classes.

------
HendrikR
Most remarkable: "The bulb that still worked after 70 years" \- "A light
switch - probably installed in the 1950s - illuminated a large Osram bulb
marked 'HM Government Property'."

~~~
jsilence
Yes there is a lightbulb conspiracy among producers that deliberately and
jointly shortened the life span of their products in order to ramp up sales.

~~~
dijit
There's some truth to the fact that lightbulbs don't last as long as they used
to; but there's a lot to unpick here.

First: This bulb was not turned on, and a light-bulb in storage does not
degrade, there's no oxidisation happening inside the bulb itself.

Second: heavy filaments consume more power to emit light, and a heavy filament
is the requirement to have a long-lived bulb

Third: Even with a heavy filament, bulbs will dim in their light output with
years of use. The longest running light bulb in the world (101 powered on
years if I'm not mistaken) is less bright than a candle, although originally
it was about as bright as a 40w bulb.

More information on that bulb:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light)

~~~
jacquesm
> and a light-bulb in storage does not degrade

Depends on the quality of the seal and how well it was evacuated. Older bulbs
tend to be higher quality, thicker glass, much more material around the seal
(the spot where the wires cross through from inside the bulb to outside).

------
ocdtrekkie
My honest first question when I read this is: Isn't knowing about every single
passage and doorway absolutely critical to security in a facility where high
risk persons work?

It seems absolutely crazy to me to think that, as a US comparison, they would
let the President go anywhere that might have passages the Secret Service is
unaware of.

~~~
btilly
This is a building where people are literally employed to walk the halls so
that if there is a fire, it will be noticed in time to save the building.

This is also a building where Parliament can be shut down for a day because a
pipe burst and flooded the chambers where they deliberate. (Happened about a
year ago during Brexit deliberations.)

This is also a building where they know that they need to spend billions on
renovations but can't.

On the flip side, this also has one of the most impressive remaining medieval
roofs in existence. Contains the lobby that gave us the word "lobbying". And
contains more history than any building that you can find in the USA.

If ever you go to London, get a tour of it. Seriously.

~~~
Mvandenbergh
>This is also a building where they know that they need to spend billions on
renovations but can't.

Second line of the article: "Historians working on the renovation of the House
of Commons found the lost 360-year-old passageway, hidden in a secret
chamber."

Planning permission has been filed for the first phase of works, not actually
on the Palace of Westminster but on the other side of Portcullis House, to
renovate those buildings so that everyone can move there for the years it will
take to renovate.

~~~
btilly
Yes, work is being prepared. And yet, work was put off for decades and now
work on the building is still going to be delayed for years.

------
nallerooth
I wonder how much history would be lost to us if people didn't write stuff on
walls. :D

~~~
thaumasiotes
I recall reading a hand-wringing article about a canyon with a lot of ancient
Native American graffiti carved on the walls, and how it was in a state of
crisis because modern American teenagers kept carving their own graffiti on
the walls.

I don't really see how we can defend the idea that the ancient graffiti is
historically valuable and it's a good thing it was left there, but the modern
graffiti is a menace that needs to be stamped out.

~~~
roywiggins
You might as well ask why ancient cesspools are historically valuable and best
left alone for archaeologists to work on, while we still clean garbage off the
streets.

It's because they're _old_ and _rare_. A pile of modern garbage? Not
interesting. A pile of Roman garbage? That's an archaeological site.

~~~
nitrogen
Obviously these conversations are from the perspective of future
archaeologists

~~~
squiggleblaz
If we didn't clean up the garbage and prevent the graffiti, the ancient
historical garbage and graffiti wouldn't be rare, so it would be much more
boring to future archæologists!

------
mprev
I wonder if the file format they use to store the digitised plans will still
be readable 300 years from now.

~~~
mcphage
The UK does have some experience with that gang aft agley:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Domesday_Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Domesday_Project)

------
sm4rk0
Can someone please mark that hidden passageway on this plan?

[http://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5763/6e3a/e58e/ce0d/87...](http://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5763/6e3a/e58e/ce0d/8700/0050/newsletter/IMG_016.jpg)

------
walrus01
It's not every day that you see a news article reference dendrochronology

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology)

------
coder1001
I guess these things get lost overtime if there is no system of documenting
what happened and is happening with any building over a long period of time?

A nice startup idea would be to create a system/website/app that documents
what happens to any building over time including all maintenance and future
plans!

City councils have something like this but I imagine it is pretty simple and
does not capture a lot.

~~~
pjc50
In some ways the app is easy. Capturing what happens is not, especially if
there's no immediate incentive to do so. And writing an app in 2020 doesn't
tell you want happened in 1660. Then you have to cope with app longevity; most
apps deployed in 2020 will be dead by 2030 while the Houses of Parliament will
still be there (unless they burn down due to ongoing fire code issues)

~~~
coder1001
Hence having "system/website/app". The system is there to conserve everything
and hopefully it will transcend technologies and be easy to migrate the data
to whatever comes next.

~~~
OJFord
We have legislation on vellum going back centuries; it's transcended
technology and successfully been copied (I wouldn't say actually 'migrated')
to other papers and the gov.uk website.

Which is why GP talks about _incentive_. What technology is your
"system/website/app" going to use? Who's incentivised to update it? Who
migrates to something else when you abandon it? How much does all this cost
compared to non-digital records, which have almost certainly been kept, but
some lost due to a lack of _incentive_ to keep them up to date and safe?

~~~
Swenrekcah
Since 2016, UK laws have not been recorded on vellum anymore [0]

[0]: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/12149181/Thousand-
year...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/12149181/Thousand-year-old-
tradition-of-printing-Britains-laws-on-vellum-has-been-scrapped-to-save-
just-80000.html)

~~~
toyg
From the government that destroyed all Windrush records, comes another
shocking tale of incompetence with malicious undertones.

Laws are written down to make them as permanently-accessible as possible,
which acts as defense against capricious rulers. Anything that makes them less
permanent is a small blow to the rights of everyday people.

~~~
johannes1234321
I would argue that a law that is so seldemly referenced that all copies are
lost ceased to be valid.

But I understand that the British system isn't built that way and instead of
creating a consolidated "constitution" rather enjoy the fun of a Speaker
citing some old precedent, which nobody can know about. True excitement.

~~~
stordoff
To which precedent to you refer? Most are catalogued in Erskine May.

~~~
johannes1234321
It seems many people were quite surprised about Bercow taking precedent from
1604, which seems to be from Erksine May.

This precedent certainly doesn't come from vellum, which GP misses.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-
parliaments-46810616](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-
parliaments-46810616)

~~~
OJFord
You seem to have confused a couple of things - or else posted the wrong link.

The 'precedent from 1604' was that parliament couldn't be asked to vote twice
on the same matter in the same sitting; but that isn't archaic and disused,
it's common practice and Bercow (and other members) quoted numerous occasions
on which speakers had disallowed votes on its basis.

Your link is about Bercows ' _un_ precedented ruling' giving MPs more control
over the business of the HoC, as opposed to the Government.

------
known
British are known for building many escape routes e.g. The road in 1942 as an
evacuation route in preparation for a possible Japanese invasion of South
India. With a maximum elevation of 2,480 meters (8,140 ft) just south of
Vandaravu Peak, it was among the highest roads in India, south of the
Himalayas, prior to its closure in 1990
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodaikanal%E2%80%93Munnar_Road](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodaikanal%E2%80%93Munnar_Road)

------
smacktoward
The American version might be the long-hidden Senate Bathtubs:
[https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/senate-
bathtubs](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/senate-bathtubs)

------
ggm
The tunnel had electric lights? So.. lost in the sense that within the last
seventy years somebody forgot, not lost for 170 years.

------
james_anderson
Reminds me of the castle in Gormenghast

------
sjg007
There’s the plot for National Treasure 3 and 4z

------
jerome-jh
So the treasure is a light bulb? Pretty boring.

~~~
onion2k
Any hoard of gold and jewels would have been pilfered by the politicians years
ago.

------
anonsivalley652
_Orrrrrrrrrder!_ (While I go "inspect" the jewels.)

(Too bad, no more Bercow in the HoC; he'll have to say it in lecture halls
from now on. :')

------
pbhjpbhj
Three things intrigue me about this:

1) why did they release this today? They've had time to clean it (that door is
spotless on the inside), and to wire in electrics [or they were there and this
is a fraud] -- so why today, what's happening that they're keeping out of the
news ... (it happens, witness Boris's "bus collection" story).

2) who in this day and age installs brass light switches, where did they even
buy that switch this week (presumably this week, or how long have they been
sitting on it)?

3) does Parliament really need it's own locksmith, or do they mean they booked
their regular locksmith to come?

Anyway, nice little puff piece.

------
StarDucks
How did they just so happen to have the key to a hidden door that hadn't been
opened in 68 years that they didn't even know existed?

~~~
gnud
The locksmith got the door open. It doesn't say he had the key.

~~~
asynch8
Nope, but the video doesn't mention how they acquired the key either, they
just demonstrate how it opens. I'll be honest and say that I didn't read very
far into the article either and just skimmed it while listening to the video.

------
cosmodisk
I can almost imagine Boris Johnson pushing everybody aside whilst approaching
the tiny door and screaming: "Let me through,let me through! The gold is all
mine,the gold is all mine!" Obviously all this happening while Patel smirking
in the shadows knowing too well that the gold was stolen by Cameron ages ago.

