
Technologies in HN “Who is Hiring?” threads - fijal
https://blog.whoishiring.io/hacker-news-who-is-hiring-thread-part-3/
======
rfrey
I appreciate how much work stuff like this is, thanks.

There's something weird to me about how the data is broken out though. The
article claims Django and Rails dominate - "the gap between them and the next
thing is really big". This leaves the impression that those are the big
backend stacks.

Yet there's no mention of node. Go? Java stacks? Clojure backends? I know that
node and go and Clojure aren't frameworks (and meteor _is_ mentioned)... but
that's the point, I think. The bins are chosen in a way that they seem to
exclude a huge chunk (maybe the majority!) of tech stacks.

~~~
xando
I agree with the case of Go, the std lib does good enough job to be full-
toolbox. Go is getting really big. If want you can check the numbers from the
first part [1] where I mention that. You can find number other languages as
well there. But still, if you think about I wouldn't be too fair to compare Go
with Ruby on Rails.

I'm the author of this blog post.

~~~
weaksauce
Nice series of posts... Though, I don't like the graphics for the language
popularity in the first one. The inconsistent scales make ruby look similar in
popularity to php and perl where it's an order of magnitude more popular than
perl and almost that much higher than php. The other thing is that you didn't
label the vertical axis.

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StriverGuy
I am immediately skeptical of this analysis. No .NET Framework at all? I know
that isn't true since I have browsed Who's Hiring plenty.

~~~
xando
I wrote the blog, apologises. I didn't include .NET frameworks for only one
reason numbers were marginal (it's Hacker News after all). I didn't want to
add 20 different lines on the charts. I didn't include many things for the
same reason

Said that If you think I should add something to this blog post (a tag) let me
know, I will do that. Also, I'm building stats, page, where everything will be
comparable and selectable, from all sources not only Hacker News.

~~~
andrewstuart2
It would be interesting at least to see an "other" line to get a feel for how
many jobs are being advertised overall. And perhaps a table of the data as an
appendix to show the actual numbers in more detail.

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netcraft
Links to Part 1: [https://blog.whoishiring.io/hacker-news-who-is-hiring-
thread...](https://blog.whoishiring.io/hacker-news-who-is-hiring-thread-
part-1/) and Part 2: [https://blog.whoishiring.io/hacker-news-who-is-hiring-
thread...](https://blog.whoishiring.io/hacker-news-who-is-hiring-thread-
part-2-remote-and-locations/) (although it seems the charts are broken in this
one)

I would really love to see this kind of analysis on a broader set of data -
like for fortune 500-1000 companies. I would expect a lot of things to be
similar, just smaller percentages on the uptake (like for some of the front
end tech), but very different on other things (like the data-storage tech).

~~~
xando
Thanks for the links. I'm the author, also I've fixed the Part 2.

As for the other suggestion. I'm not too sure how to get the data, although I
myself would be really interested to see numbers as well.

Also, right now I'm trying to put a stats page, a better stats page. Where
tags to compare would be more flexible. Some people here will complain that
some technology that they like was omitted. Also, this page should measure
data from many sources not only Hacker News "Who is Hiring" thread.

------
BenderV
Just as a side note, thanks for the website. It's a really good tool to find
startup jobs! I would simply note that you should try to work on your
marketing/SEO, because, even though I used the service a month ago, I had a
really hard time to find it again (yesterday).

~~~
xando
Hah, Thanks. This is great feedback :)

The website is not really likable by google crawlers but I will try to think
on it.

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wyldfire
> I couldn't find anything comparable to Docker too. It looks like some
> alternate solutions slowly are emerging.

I'm not sure I totally understand the ecosystem, but it seems like linux
containers (lxc) and/or appc/rkt now do much of what Docker offers. Docker
seems to be more portable to other host OSs, though?

But from my recollection of recent "Who's Hiring?" threads I don't think I've
seen much mention of lxc or appc or rkt.

~~~
xando
I'm aware if its existence, although if I run search on the job posts for tags
like lxc / lxd. The chart line was flat. I'm not too sure if this is something
comparable.

I wrote this blog post.

~~~
ameen
Mind sharing the models and the Datamining visualization stuff used for these
datasets? I'd love to know more about how you arrived at these results.

------
dsiegel2275
That was a strange trick to pull - making Angular the blue line and React the
red line.

------
felideon
Great series of articles, thanks a ton.

I'm trying to understand the relation between the following observations:

> Maybe, unsurprisingly, the top 5 choice is relatively constant with Python
> and JavaScript leading the pack and can be a safe choice to learn these
> days. [...] Surprisingly the drop for Ruby is also noticeable. (part 1)

> Ruby on Rails and Django both look as a solid choice for the next startup's
> stack. On average both lost some audience, but the gap between them and the
> next thing is really big.

From the graphs it also seems that Ruby/Rails has a stronger correlation than
Python/Django does. Makes sense, since as far as I can tell there are more
non-webdev Python jobs than there are non-webdev Ruby jobs.

But it seems that Ruby/Rails is more popular than Python/Django, so although
learning Python is better in one sense, learning Ruby/Rails is better in
another sense.

In other words, if you are looking for a web dev job, you have better chances
of finding a job if you learn or have Ruby/Rails experience. But if you are
not interested in web dev, Python is the safer choice. (All other things being
equal, of course.)

------
polysaturate
Wow, really surprised to see Ember so low on the FE framework graph.

~~~
cloverich
After using it for over a year (and switching out) I"m not. Its got a _ton_ of
good features. But most days I'd find myself pouring over the documentation
trying to figure out how to do something I already knew how to do in
Javascript. My colleague and I used to have a joke that went something like
"Yeah I can do it in Javascript, but how do you do it in Ember-script?"
There's a lot from Ember that I miss and a ton I think they got right. I do
sometimes wonder if they'd adopted React for their view layer early on and
sold themselves as the "everything else" framework if they'd done better. Idk
how feasible that is, but my unqualified bias makes me think they'd be much
more well known and popular.

~~~
forgotpwtomain
> After using it for over a year (and switching out) I"m not. Its got a ton of
> good features. But most days I'd find myself pouring over the documentation
> trying to figure out how to do something I already knew how to do in
> Javascript

You probably don't have enough experience with Ember (if you are still pouring
over docs) or aren't working on something of large enough scale to really
benefit from Ember. (I'd say the analogy would be Rails vs. Sinatra, Ember
really does a lot of stuff, but takes longer to get comfortable with).

> I do sometimes wonder if they'd adopted React for their view layer early on
> and sold themselves as the "everything else" framework if they'd done
> better.

Really? I think the React model of inlining HTML in your Javascript is
atrocious compared to HTMLbars. An Ember code-base is just so much nicer to
read.

Ember is sometimes painful in ways that jQuery wouldn't be (e.g. what I don't
have access to the children components of my component!) On the other-hand if
you have a large code-base with complicated computed logic, Ember really,
really _works_ by forcing you to do this the Ember way - where everything else
would have dissolved into a complete mess. That said the upgrade path to 2.0
has been very painful. Never the less I would 100% choose Ember over React for
a new project today.

~~~
cloverich
> You probably don't have enough experience with Ember (if you are still
> pouring over docs) or aren't working on something of large enough scale to
> really benefit from Ember.

For context, the app was well over 10k loc, and was a socket connected video
chat (+ contacts) application. I had enough experience with Ember to upgrade
the app from 1.3 to 2.x stopping regularly along the way. I do expect knowing
Ember more thoroughly would have helped but that was always my problem: I felt
like I had to be intimate with every aspect of the docs to get the simplest
things done. Towards then end I was spending a great deal of time which felt
antithetical to the entire point of using Ember.

> Really? I think the React model of inlining HTML in your Javascript is
> atrocious

I suspect there will always be a segment that would prefer not to use JSX /
inline templating, and that's totally ok.

> Ember is sometimes painful in ways that jQuery wouldn't be (e.g. what I
> don't have access to the children components of my component!)

This is exactly the type of thing using React for the view layer would
address. I always found myself making extra components and 4-6 files then
contriving ways to communicate between them. I'm quite sure there's a
reasonable way to handle this in Ember, but when I do similar things in React,
I don't have to look anything up. I just write javascript and things behave
the way I think they should.

~~~
forgotpwtomain
> This is exactly the type of thing using React for the view layer would
> address. I always found myself making extra components and 4-6 files then
> contriving ways to communicate between them. I'm quite sure there's a
> reasonable way to handle this in Ember, but when I do similar things in
> React, I don't have to look anything up. I just write javascript and things
> behave the way I think they should.

Ember is really not-friendly if you fight the 'ember way of doing things'
(e.g. shared-state computes down, events bubble-up). There are a few edge-
cases I've had where a parent really needed access to it's child and I am
personally not a huge fan that Ember is _so_ opinionated about not doing it,
but I would say this is akin to the GoLang's kind of opinionated, it might
hurt a few times but it generally standardizes the code-base which is very
important when multiple people might be touching related code.

------
lasermike026
And now the new shinny...

I'm surprised about Ruby on Rails still being up there. I code ruby, awesome.
I thought the server side shinny would have been node.

Also, docker is a platform. You could compare it to other platforms. It feels
like you could compare it to VMs, lxc, lxd, and jails. Packer or Vagrant?

~~~
cloverich
Node is shiny, but my impression is while most of the pieces are there for
good services, a solid obvious solution for your standard crud app doesn't
feel like its present. I've used Django and Play and assume Ruby on Rails is
similar -- does Node.js sport something as (relatively) polished as those?

~~~
Bahamut
There aren't really a lot of Node frameworks out there I believe (unless one
counts libraries such as express or hapi I guess)...probably the same reason
why we don't see Go or Rust in those charts is my guess.

~~~
lsiebert
Speaking off the cuff, Rust doesn't have the market share. Node feels like
it's still evolving at such a rapid pace that any framework is going to feel
tired within a couple of years, if that. Revel is the closest thing to Rails
in Go, I think it can be frustrating to work with, but there aren't a lot of
strong options in contention for Golang. It seems possible that this which
will lead to splintering in libraries/frameworks because it's all statically
typed. Node has the most potential here, I'd say, but it's possible that
someone has or will create a very strong service framework for golang with
enough abstraction that it can have a web framework embedded. But I'm not
sure.

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e28eta
In part 2, all of the data tables have the data duplicated. I see 40 rows:
1-20, 1-20 for most popular locations. The other tables show 20 entries, and
have the top ten followed by the top ten again.

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karmajunkie
This is awesomely interesting... I hope you guys keep running these numbers in
the future to track emerging trends (though I can see how much work it must be
to put them together.)

~~~
xando
Thanks.

There is a plan to set up a fairly dynamic page where people could compare
different technologies, and look at trends.

~~~
karmajunkie
that's great man, looking forward to seeing that!

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Bahamut
Any idea what triggers the erratic data points for CoffeeScript?

~~~
vonzeppelin
Coffee breaks.

------
sleepychu
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dwaltrip
What about mobile technologies?

~~~
xando
I'm not too sure what do you mean. Could you name them?

~~~
dwaltrip
I guess, for starters, I was just thinking about the breakdown of startups
hiring for pure web roles, vs Android or iOS. Perhaps this demarcation would
only be clear on the front-end side of web, as an API could service both an
app and a website.

The blog post was very interesting btw, thanks for creating it.

