
Computer Programming using GNU Smalltalk - fogus
http://canol.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/computer-programming-using-gnu-smalltalk-is-out/
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GeneralMaximus
Is GNU Smalltalk a fully-compliant Smalltalk-80 implementation? I have tried
messing with Squeak Smalltalk in the past, but the UI always puts me off.

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draegtun
If u don't like the Squeak UI then take a look at Pharo: <http://www.pharo-
project.org/home>

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randallsquared
Using "you" is only two extra characters, and not using them devalues anything
you say, for some people.

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rick2047
Why use two extra characters when you can get away with one?I know this logic
does not appeal to many, but must you not judge the post by its content and
not by its language?I mean you know when he is saying "u" he means "you" and
language is just a tool to make you understand his ideas, and when that is
accomplished why bother about the extra two characters.

PS:- Funny thing is according to my above logic I wasted a whole post just to
make you understand the not so great value of two extra characters

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gloob
Because, first and foremost, it's aesthetically displeasing. Secondly, cutting
out characters provides no gain to anyone, tangible or otherwise, unless you
are just that concerned about the tenth of a second it will save you typing.
Thirdly, language matters: for instance, inserting the word "fuckery" three or
four times into most posts would leave them entirely understandable; that does
not mean that people are obligated to support it. Similarly for 1337, which
has the benefit of not being actually offensive, but rather making the speaker
sound like they're six.

Content is important, of course, but atmosphere matters too (at least to some
people).

Edit: For what it's worth, I didn't downvote the comment being discussed.

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rick2047
Well I dont think its the authors job to make it always aesthetically pleasing
to everybody, he just wanted to convey his ideas and he did. I am not
concerned about the tenth of a second I save by not typing y and o but the one
second I do spend making "u" "you" again. The kind of short hand (or SMS)
language is just the part of the authors habit. Has it became just so
"aesthetically displeasing" to read "u" as the word and not alphabet?

As to the fuckery analogy I wanna say that it would not leave the post
entirely understandable because you will have to still think if the word was
actually part of the sentence or not?But I think (dont bother to deny it) that
everybody who owns a mobile or had used internet would know simple things like
"u" stands for "you","ur" stands for "your" and "bt" for "but". And if they
dont its entirely possible to get that from context. But your fuckery example
is just opposite.Nobody will "know" and will at least have contemplate as to
whats the use of that word in the context.

For the 1337 point I wanna say two things. First if the author sounds like six
but has a good or at least competent thing to say then whats the matter?You
should just except the authors view and choice, also be scared by the fact
that he is competent with you by the age of 6 and he would be surely
outsmarting you when he reaches your age. Secondly I too dont like such 1337
language, but only when the spellings are so obscure that the reader may never
even begin to understand what the word is. But again when someone rights "u"
you can easily understand that he means "you" which is not the case when
someone writes 1337 $|o3/-\|< |=/-\57 3|\|0U9|-| u </-\|\| 937 /-\ |0T 0F
\/\//-\7 |7 5/-\5, 7|-|3|\| U c/-\|\| F|9uR3 0u7 \/\//-\7 u |\/||553o|.

I know to some people atmosphere is very important (like my college
professors), but what dont understand is why these people dont understand that
for some people it is not. To some people its just the content that matters
the most (if you can understand it fully of course). If you expect people to
respect your choice, why not first start to respect theres? Or like mahatma
Gandhi once put it "You should be the change you want to see in the world".
And here by change i mean respect for other people's choice.

PS:- I dont really care if you are down voting me or not, I am already having
a rough day at the forum and I am actually eager to see if karma can go into
negative or not.Nor do I expect a standing ovation to this post but this is
exactly I feel in 500 words.

Edit: Now I officially Know that karma can go into negative, but I would like
that people who down vote may just give me a reason as to why they did it

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alexgartrell
Because you're being a jerk. Just abide by the stylistic rules of the
community and you'll be fine. When you're called out, fix it. Don't start a
pissing war over something trivial. Especially because you'll never win here
with that attitude.

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rick2047
who said anything about a war or winning anything?Is stating your opinion
about something been called being a jerk these days?Have we been so caught up
in being a "Stylist community" that we care so much about style that anyone
against it is now "starting a pissing war", "being a jerk" or "trying to win
here"?

If thats so then I am fine with my negative karma and "attitude". I really
hoped this community to be above such trivial matters or at least try to look
at it from a different view point. But NO, even you are too busy with your
"style",you dont care to look about anyone who does not think like you. Then I
am again compelled to comprehend that this is another mob, which has no right
to say they are different from others. But I am going to stay here, just
because I care about the content this mob develops not the "atmosphere". I am
gonna be happy with a negative karma point here. Because I believe in whatever
I say and whatever I feel is right. And there is not a thing you can do to
shut me up to stop me saying that.

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gloob
Being downvoted a couple of times is different than people oppressing you. You
are not some martyr for freedom of speech.

For what it's worth, I suspect people would appreciate it if we would permit
this pointless meta-meta-discussion to die.

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rick2047
If you look at it closely my responses are replys to specific posts. I am not
against being downvoted. To me it just proves that people are not buying my
view, and that I am totally different. Which is good, in a way.

Also to you this may be a pointless meta-meta-discussion but I take it upon
myself to reply to people who have something to say about my views.

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jrockway
Being different and being good are orthogonal.

Anyway, here's the thing about "relaying ideas". Nobody will be able to
receive them if your message is garbled by incorrect spelling or style. Your
idea might be good, but if nobody can understand it, nobody will ever know
about it.

Stick to standard English and you should be fine. If you want to do something
like not use words with "e" in them, that is also fine. But spelling "you" as
"u" just makes you look illiterate, and ideas from illiterates are usually not
well-received.

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rick2047
Not to be negative but why the perception that someone spelling "you" as "u"
is illiterate?

Also if you look at my all posts I personally use the full form and correct
spellings (thanks spell checks) of words. My movement was not just limited to
the use of incorrect spellings but also HN not excepting any idea other than
their own. It makes it look like fashion where the real review are done by
only people in Milan or New York, for the rest these reviews are just copied
and translated.

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jrockway
_It makes it look like fashion where the real review are done by only people
in Milan or New York, for the rest these reviews are just copied and
translated._

OK, whatever.

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pfedor
Last I checked (a few years ago admittedly) GNU Smalltalk didn't include line
numbers in error messages, which made it hardly usable for anything > 300
lines. Does anyone know whether it changed?

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spooneybarger
paolo has greatly advanced the state of gnu smalltalk. you might want to give
it another look.

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icey
Does that include providing line numbers in error messages?

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spooneybarger
<http://smalltalk.gnu.org/project/issue/233>

