
Darpa wants to make a better, more secure, version of WhatsApp - hhs
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/darpa-wants-make-better-secure-version-whatsapp-3696558
======
YeahSureWhyNot
Aside from the typical encryption worries here are some features I would love
to see being offered on a alternative messenger app

-ability to give out your alias or username to people to reach you on whatsapp instead of a phone number, something you can change later after banning the contact.

-transcribe voice messages to enable search among them.

-ability to hide the fact that i have listened to their voice message.

-ability to hide the fact that i am on whatsapp network and receive 'add to contact' requests from people where i can accept or reject without them knowing i actually rejected.

-hide the 'online' in conversation window when im reading the message.

-save my chat history in the cloud so that i dont lose everything when i move from iOS to Android or vise versa.

-ability to save incoming and outgoing media attachments to the cloud for access later

-full desktop support for video and voice calls

-ability to record the calls, and have their transcribed texts easily searchable.

-ability to ignore certain kind of messages from certain people such as 'allow text messages only, no calls, no pictures, no videos.' etc.

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nsuser3
> -full desktop support for video and voice calls

 _Any_ desktop support would be nice. WhatsApp web is not a real solution.

~~~
tehlike
It kind of is, at least it is 80% there. What is your problem eith it? Having
to handshake almost everytime?

~~~
jolmg
For me, the problem is that it requires internet access. When I found that
WhatsApp was deleting important messages and that the backups and exports that
I was counting on were useless, as I mentioned in another comment[1], I found
that the easiest way to save those messages was to scrape them from the web
client. However, connecting the phone to the internet meant that it would
receive more messages and hence delete more messages. I took screenshots
manually of several days of the oldest available messages to avoid losing
them, but it wouldn't have been necessary if the desktop client didn't require
internet access.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19669740](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19669740)

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Zhenya
Isn't that called Signal? Maybe just put the funding into extending that?

~~~
YeahSureWhyNot
I tried signal, much more inferior to WhatsApp in terms of functionality and
usability

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neonhat
How is Signal inferior to WhatsApp "in terms of functionality and usability"?

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77ko
Just a few things:

\- Signal is a lot less "polished" \- FB has spent tons more resources on
making a slick streamlined easy to use interface. Even though signal looks
similar its missing all the little things.

\- there is no easy to use backup. Whatsapp can backup to google drive or
icloud and restore it on another phone. Signal you have to figure out how to
deal with and transfer your backup file[1]. This isn't easy for regular folks,
Signal needs to be able to connect to cloud storage (preferably of your
choice).

\- Whatsapp deals with and displays media better/faster

\- calling works better. last time I checked whatsapp has easy group video and
audio calls, Signal had neither.

There is actually lots more. I prefer the idea of using Signal over whatsapp,
but I found it not close enough yet. Especially for non-techy ppl.

[1]: [https://support.signal.org/hc/en-
us/articles/360007059752-Ba...](https://support.signal.org/hc/en-
us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages)

~~~
jammygit
Personally, I don't want backups. I don't want to worry whether some joke I
made 10 years ago would look bad in a future data dump. If messages could self
destruct after three years that would be lovely

~~~
afiori
I personally will never user a personal messaging app without long term
backups. In twenty years there I will have many fond memories of my past
conversations. I see it (almost) no different from keeping old letters.

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abalone
This makes it sound like DARPA wants to take some commercially developed tech
and adapt it to the military, but just for the record that _grossly_ misstates
the relationship and the general history of Silicon Valley.

Ever wonder how Siri got her name? From SRI International, a research org
largely funded by the DoD.[1] DARPA is the _origin_ of much of the tech,
including secure Internet tech. Just one recent example: Tor[2]. It's
developed at taxpayer expense and either given away to private industry or
"transferred" for a pittance.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRI_International#Employees_an...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRI_International#Employees_and_financials)

[2] [https://www.onion-router.net/Sponsors.html](https://www.onion-
router.net/Sponsors.html)

~~~
toast0
I don't think there's an official origin for Siri's name. Someone said it was
named after a child. I suspect (without evidence) it was named after the
female robot in the pilot episode of the Logan's Run who ran Mountain City, a
paradise city.

~~~
iDon
From :
[https://www.sri.com/engage/ventures/siri](https://www.sri.com/engage/ventures/siri)

[https://www.sri.com/work/timeline-
innovation/timeline.php?ti...](https://www.sri.com/work/timeline-
innovation/timeline.php?timeline=computing-digital#!&innovation=siri)

"Siri, the first virtual personal assistant, arose from decades of SRI
research in artificial intelligence (AI). The technology was developed through
the SRI-led Cognitive Assistant that Learns and Organizes (CALO) project
within DARPA's Personalized Assistant that Learns (PAL) program, the largest-
known AI project in U.S. History, and joint work with EPFL, the Swiss
institute of technology.

SRI spun off Siri, Inc. in 2007 to bring the technology to consumers, raising
$24 million in two rounds of financing.

In April 2010, Apple acquired Siri, and in October 2011, Siri was unveiled as
an integrated feature of the Apple iPhone 4S."

I'm not verifying that - I just found it via google search "sri Siri"

I like the link to Logan's Run :-), it could be also true.

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qmarchi
It's mildly entertaining that we have calls for a more secure and trust-able
version of an encrypted chat service, but other agencies in the executive
branch are calling for loopholes and vulnerabilities for the same encrypted
channels.

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pvorb
Do we really need yet another chat app? I think there are far too many of
them. Can't we go back to XMPP again and make everything compatible like it
was ten years ago?

~~~
jplayer01
From the description, it seems like it's less about the chat app itself and
more about developing and designing a new secure protocol and infrastructure
that will influence future products by commercial or other entities. They want
people to take the tech they develop and make their own stuff more secure,
which sounds awesome.

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rrggrr
Seems like Keybase's key model would work well here:
[https://keybase.io/blog/keybase-new-key-
model](https://keybase.io/blog/keybase-new-key-model)

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staticvar
> Exist completely within a network

I bet this requirements implies working seemlessly between online and offline
networks. In which case this project is not just building another
XMPP/WhatApps/Signal/etc. They are building another Cabal ([https://cabal-
club.github.io/](https://cabal-club.github.io/)) :-)

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wnevets
The title makes it sound like they want to use whatsapp, not that they want
encrypted chat.

~~~
quadrature
Agreed, i think the title is a bit misleading.

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alphagrep12345
What's wrong with the current encryption? I'm told that Signal's encryption
technique if very superior and probably the best in the industry.

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lonesword
Just wait till Telegram open sources their code?

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SiempreViernes
Original solicitation is from June 2018, not clear that this story is anything
but a reheating of that announcement, found here:
[https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=c244cde...](https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=c244cde44f811d49db4df4a90a8b5573&tab=core&_cview=1)

(As an aside, it is always a bit unsettling when a federal function is
represented by something that looks like a link farm. I mean, I know you
elected Trump and all, but "FedBizOpps" probably predates him by a decade)

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jayalpha
Besides signal, there is also

1\. Threema. Swiss based but not Open Source AFAI

2\. Frozen Chat. Android client based on Jabber XMMP/OTR

~~~
mfkp
Frozen Chat seems to be removed from the Play Store, and I can't find many
references to it online. Never heard of it before.

~~~
jayalpha
Oh, wow. It is on my phone but not in the play store anymore. Strange.

[https://github.com/Frozenbox/frozenchat](https://github.com/Frozenbox/frozenchat)

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ape4
Don't they have one already!

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ralph84
Trust us, this totally isn't another Dual_EC_DRBG

~~~
LeoPanthera
Darpa had absolutely nothing to do with Dual_EC_DRBG.

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anthony_doan
They should invest in the BEAM virtual machine. IIRC, Whatapps is built on
Erlang and its VM.

There are many benefits in helping an existing project with active developers.
If dealing with the politics of managing existing project is annoying, just
fork it and make their own branch. The original owner can deal with the
merging if they want the contribution.

