
Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan - awb
https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/gates-paying-off-nigeria-debt/
======
banku_brougham
A. Nigeria GDP is ~$500B US, sovereign debt is $67B, for debt/GDP ratio of
13%. Nigeria can afford to repay this loan.

B. If we fail to eradicate polio, it will be back again someday. The rich
world should pay for this with all urgency. Kudos to the Gates.

[https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/nga/](https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/nga/)

[https://dmo.gov.ng/](https://dmo.gov.ng/)

~~~
Broken_Hippo
That doesn't actually tell anyone if they can afford it. What sorts of things
does the money go to? Salaries? Food for folks? Other obligations and
contracts? Infrastructure? Health care? How much do they have leftover
afterwards - can they meet their obligations? How much of that GDP is the
government able to capture as a tax? How efficient is tax collection and what
is the rate?

The second, though. Fair point.

~~~
fjsolwmv
Yeah the missing number there is population (for GDP per capita) 1% of
American GDP hurts a lot less per capita than Nigerian GDP

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somberi
A book by Jeffrey Sachs, The End of Poverty, argues in favor of this approach
where, wealthy individuals or nations help write off debt of poorer countries.
The cost of servicing this debt is often crushing enough that no meaningful
uplifit is possible from their current poverty.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty)

~~~
ramblerman
Given these regimes often are unstable politically and/or corrupt, what
prevents new debt being made and filling the pockets of the leaders?

In the Jeffrey Sachs model.

~~~
nikanj
Lining the pockets of leaders and their friends is a cost-of-doing business in
democracies. Yes, an economy would do better without that, but it very much
does happen in all well-developed economies.

~~~
gaius
_Lining the pockets of leaders_

If you consider the most hated politician in the UK, Tony Bliar, he netted a
personal fortune of estimated £20m. That’s a tiny fraction of what a dictator
could amass in a far poorer country.

~~~
baud147258
Tony Blair?

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pselbert
On the face of it $76m seems like a staggering amount of money. Then we learn
that the foundation dedicates $3b a year, and this seems like a drop in the
bucket.

Amazing what massively focused resources can accomplish.

------
roadbeats
In return to handing Nigeria's agriculture industry to Monsanto;

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-
matte...](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-
matters/2010/sep/29/gates-foundation-gm-monsanto)

[2] [https://www.ecowatch.com/5-million-nigerians-oppose-
monsanto...](https://www.ecowatch.com/5-million-nigerians-oppose-monsantos-
plans-to-introduce-gmo-cotton-and-1882200020.html)

~~~
a_imho
Has any consumer ever asked for GM crops?

~~~
namlem
Of course. They're cheaper. Consumers love cheaper goods. Personally, I'm very
much in favor of GMOs and think it's a shame that so many countries
overregulate them so much. There's no evidence of that the crops themselves
have caused any harm whatsoever to human health or the environment. Now, may
not be the case for the chemical pesticides and herbicides often used with
them, but that just means we should regulate those chemicals.

~~~
a_imho
Given a choice of organic vs GM I never heard anyone preferring GM so far. To
me it seems all these benefits are somehow always for _others_ to capture.

------
rabidonrails
This is awesome and it's inspiring to see the Gates' making huge moves in
philanthropy. It makes me wonder what the philanthropy would look like if
other business leaders like Warren Buffet were also to run major charitable
institutions.

~~~
mhb
Regarding Buffett, specifically, it would look an awful lot like the Bill &
Melinda Gates Foundation: [https://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-
Informati...](https://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-
Information/Leadership/Executive-Leadership-Team/Warren-Buffett)

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dmichulke
Can't they just help more directly to eradicate polio instead of paying a
corrupt government to do it?

Payments like these can be interpreted as buying a state's benevolence (aka
corruption), something that Soros is regularly accused of.

I'm sure there are quite a few NGOs that are more efficient in fighting polio
than the Nigerian government.

Likewise, should we pay Kim Jong Un to feed hungry North Koreans if it were
possible to send them food directly?

~~~
confounded
Judging from the statistics quoted in the article, the government has almost
eradicated polio in Nigeria. Pretty effective, no?

(P.S. Cheque’s in the post, right, George?)

~~~
dmichulke
That's why I wrote 'efficient' while you answered 'effective' :)

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skc
The current richest person in Africa (with a net worth of just under 13
billion US dollars) comes from Nigeria. I hope he's taking notes.

~~~
shaftoe
He died recently and I'm helping his lawyer transfer his money out of the
country. I'll email the lawyer and see if he might be willing to donate some
of the royal estate to a humanitarian cause like this.

~~~
anc84
If you need some help getting inherited money out of Nigeria, I have lots of
experience in e-mail-based initiation of intermediate.

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ftoo
Nigeria loses tens of billions of dollars a year to corruption, especially in
their oil industry, especially among politicians. If I was Nigerian, I would
find this sort of charity to be very embarrassing.

~~~
Brotkrumen
Hey there! I'm a citizen in a country where the current minister of finance
was caught with a briefcase of 100.000 DM illegal "donations" from an arms
manufacturer to the ruling party. The then-chancellor of 16 years took the
fall to protect black party accounts, but nobody spent time in jail. That same
party produces nepotism scandals in their home state but nobody cares because
nepotism is an open secret through all state institutions. Every citizen knows
this dt a continuing functioning press.

What is a German like me to do?

~~~
nicolas_t
100,000 DM is quite small change no? All countries will have corruption, the
difference is the scale of it and in third world countries, the amounts are
much much higher (look at Wen Jiabao's family in China or Mahatir in Malaysia)

~~~
Brotkrumen
Isn't that worse? People in the highest echelon of power in Germany are
corruptible by a mere 50.000€? I could understand millions, but our Democracy
being threatened by chump change is ridiculous.

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remir
I'm I the only one who thinks that Japan kinda looks bad here?

I mean, Bill's foundation is already dedicating $3B a year on development
assistance, couldn't Japan just say to Nigeria: "You don't have to pay us
back. Consider it a donation". How could they reasonably expect Nigeria to pay
them back $76M?

~~~
whack
The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics strikes again.

 _" when you observe or interact with a problem in any way, you can be blamed
for it. At the very least, you are to blame for not doing more. Even if you
don’t make the problem worse, even if you make it slightly better, the ethical
burden of the problem falls on you as soon as you observe it. In particular,
if you interact with a problem and benefit from it, you are a complete
monster."_

[https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-
eth...](https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/)

~~~
JauntyHatAngle
I think I am missing the relevance here, or not getting your point, could you
clarify please? Possible I'm missing the obvious reference.

As a side note, I find that articles arguments troubling for several reasons
that appear to be glossed over, but in interest of not derailing onto a
different comment, I'll wait for what aspect you are specifically referring to
in this case.

~~~
SolarNet
Japan did something to stop polio when no one else would. And now because a
billionaire did more as charity Japan looks like a monster for doing what no
one else would at the time.

Would it have been better if Japan had done nothing and Bill gates committed
the charity now? No, people would have died. So unless you are japanese my
question to you would be what has your government done for polio irradication
in Nigeria? Because I bet it's less than the Japanese government.

~~~
JauntyHatAngle
From that perspective, I can see what he meant. Fair enough.

The ethics of profiting off the act might need to be truncated off it though,
that is a genuine moral discussion that has so many shades of grey I feel.

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RickJWag
Awesome.

I used to think very badly of Bill Gates. (New corporate PCs often came
bundled with Word. The newest PCs wouldn't be compatible with older ones, so
everyone had to constantly upgrade. It was a huge scam.) But it's nice he's
giving his money away. I look forward to hearing about more acts of charity in
the years ahead.

~~~
BenjiWiebe
I agree. I get the feeling maybe he's trying to make up for having brought
Microsoft/Windows into the world. :)

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gigatexal
I am so glad the Gates foundation is doing so much good in the world. Kudos to
them.

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clark-kent
The problem here is that the Nigerian Government don't see this as a priority.
I was just in Nigeria a month ago, the government just allocated $1 billion to
fight Boko Haram, the terrorist group that has already been defeated in
Nigeria and chased out to other neighboring countries. The gist is that
corrupt politicians in the Senate want to quietly siphon that $1 Billion into
their foreign bank accounts.

The embarrassing thing is not that the government can't pay back the loan, its
that they won't make something like this a priority. Politicians are too busy
looting the government funds and enriching their family & friends.

------
jxramos
> "No new cases of the wild poliovirus were reported in 2017 and there were
> only four cases reported in 2016, according to the Global Polio Eradication
> Initiative."

Other than verified infections, is any health organization able to sample this
virus out in the wild as a discrete virus? Even in the US is polio just
circulating impotently about us unable to hook-on from all the vaccinated
individuals?

------
quotemstr
Moral hazard?

~~~
jzwinck
Probably not. First this is a highly unusual event, not something other
debtors could reasonably expect for themselves.

Second, the money was used to fight polio, a terrible disease. Moral hazard
would be Nigerians driving Ferraris purchased by Melinda and Bill. This is not
that.

If the Gates want to eliminate such diseases, they must be elated to see
effective programs spending their money to do it.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
> Moral hazard would be Nigerians driving Ferraris purchased by Melinda and
> Bill.

The Nigerian kleptocrats have effectively externalized their healthcare costs
so that they _can_ buy their Ferraris or more likely a fleet of pimped out
G-wagens.

------
perseusprime11
It is amazing to see how Bill Gates immersed himself in his nonprofit work. I
hope he stays rich so he can do more of these.

~~~
labster
Having read Slashdot 15 years ago, a part of me is shocked to hear anyone wish
that Bill Gates stays rich. But don't worry, Bill will be just fine.

~~~
hiram112
Gates is worshipped by most millennials, including the techies.

For those of us who've been around for a while - as your reference to Slashdot
points out - this can be surprising considering just how hated he was a decade
or two ago when Microsoft was in a much different position than they are now.

I still have a negative opinion of him, and feel his business practices were
extremely negative to the world.

But I will give credit to his ability to white-wash his image via numerous PR
campaigns (Reddit AMAs, lots of other blatant social manipulation in the
media). He and his marketing team have played the long game, and have been
brilliant.

~~~
rgossiaux
The thing is, it seems pretty clear-cut to me that the good that Gates has
done with his foundation has _far_ exceeded any bad that was done through MS
business practices. It's hard for me to take seriously the idea that things
like aggressively stifling competing software is the same or larger magnitude
as helping millions of people in the developing world with basic things like
nutrition, sanitation, and disease prevention. Gates is worshipped because
he's currently making a very serious, very earnest, very large positive impact
on the developing world, and I have no shame in supporting him.

~~~
eeZah7Ux
> the good that Gates has done with his foundation has far exceeded any bad
> that was done through MS business practices

Do you realize that the money $billionaire using were taken away from $company
customers? Those money were not created out of thin air by $company. They
would have been used in many other ways by the customers - including making
the world a better place.

The only value $company really creates is in the products and the company
behavior - everything else is just transferring money.

Now, transferring money from large masses to socially beneficial organizations
it's done by taxation through a democratic process or by voluntary
contribution.

Individuals having the power to grab your money and decide how to spend it,
like kings in a feudal society, can easily do more harm than good.

------
unabridged
The problem is a charity paying off your debt does not make your credit
better. While its slightly better than a writeoff/forgiveness because the
creditor isn't as angry, it still shows they can't pay back loans. Is a future
creditor going to count on a charity showing up to pay them off?

~~~
mhandley
The article isn't clear, but I'd guess from the small outbreak in 2016 after
being Polio-free in 2014/15 that the concern is that polio still isn't
completely eliminated in Nigeria. Presumably it will need ongoing monitoring
for several more years to ensure it is completely gone. Having to pay back the
debt could jeopardise that ongong effort. In which case, this seems a good
investment.

~~~
rincebrain
A 3y interval without cases in any member countries is what's required for the
WHO to call a region "polio-free". [1]

[1] -
[http://www.searo.who.int/immunization/topics/polio/eradicati...](http://www.searo.who.int/immunization/topics/polio/eradication/sea-
polio-free/en/)

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knowThySelfx
Well, nothing is free.

------
simplemath__
To all the commenters too busy being aghast at giving money to a government to
read the article:

> _Nigeria’s debt to Japan is the result of Overseas Development Assistance
> (ODA) provided by the Japanese government in 2014 for increased polio
> eradication._ efforts.

> _The country has made great strides in its efforts to eliminate the disease
> thanks to this funding._

> _Nigeria did not record a wild case of polio from July 2014 to August 2016,
> when two cases were reported._

Presumably, the Gates Foundation wants to encourage state partnerships from
nations like Japan in the service of eradicating solved diseases, regardless
of a recipient nation's ability or willingness to settle incurred debts.

Money well spent.

~~~
diego_moita
This is the correct perspective. It seems that, Reddit style, many people here
comment just the titles, don't read the articles.

Polio is on the way to complete eradication all over the world. AFAIK the only
place where it remains endemic is Baluchistan in Pakistan where the warlords
are suspicious of vaccination agents.

Victory on polio is a fantastic story that doesn't get the attention it
deserves.

~~~
oculusthrift
well last time they claimed to be giving vaccines in pakistan it was to
collect genetic information against a us target.

~~~
adventured
It wasn't the last time. Pakistan is an extremely large nation with 40+ years
of substantial vaccination efforts by the US and West in general. It'd be fair
to say that at least 99.9% of that effort was entirely innocent.

The CIA doing what it did should have never happened obviously. That
simultaneously doesn't excuse non-vaccination, which is extraordinarily
inexpensive and could be performed by Pakistani government persons as a
compromise.

~~~
mschuster91
> and could be performed by Pakistani government persons as a compromise.

Political opponents still can frame anyone associated with "being an US
puppet"... and for the chemtrail-lovers with an addition of "they're not
vaccinating you, they're putting tiny microchips into you". Do note I didn't
make up that last one, it literally flew somewhere over my Facebook feed
today.

~~~
throwaway2048
Do you really wanna try to frame the DNA analysis thing as an insane
conspiracy theory?

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-
vacci...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-
osama-bin-ladens-dna)

The leaders being suspicious of vaccination efforts is a direct link to this
activity, please stop making a cheap "THOSE CRAZY KOOKS BELEIVE ANYTHING"
style dismissal.

~~~
mschuster91
> Do you really wanna try to frame the DNA analysis thing as an insane
> conspiracy theory?

No. Of course this is real. What I meant was that even using Pakistani staff
would not help to restore trust. The CIA really did the world a service...

------
danjoc
Why does the 6th largest oil exporter in the world need a $76M loan paid?

Edit: Downvotes? Legitimate question guys. Can someone explain how that works?

~~~
danbruc
Wikipedia gives 2.231 million barrels exported per day for Nigeria in 2013. At
$50 per barrel this amounts 40 billion Dollar per year. I have no idea what
the profit margins are but at 10 % this yields only 4 billion Dollar in
profits per year which seems rather little to me, especially given that it is
the 6th largest oil exporter. So 76 million Dollar would be 1.9 % of the
annual profits from oil exports, not much but also not negligible. But I think
I must have committed an error somewhere, those 4 billion Dollar just look too
tiny to me.

~~~
danjoc
According to this,

[http://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2016/06/18/wsj-
nigerias...](http://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2016/06/18/wsj-nigerias-
cost-of-oil-production-now-worlds-3rd-most-expensive/)

Nigeria charges $4.11 per barrel in taxes. So I guess they get that $4B in tax
revenue. 1.9% of oil tax revenue is not negligible, but I would think Nigeria
would have more national pride than accept. Like Bolivia with Bill Gate's
chickens.

Anyway, by GDP, Nigeria is 27,

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_\(nominal\))

------
cpg
It's like their are their Nigerian Prince.

Thank you.

------
sbjustin
I hope they'll bail us out when it comes back to the US due to the lack of
vaccinations.

-In no way meant to belittle what they did. I think what they do is awesome. Just being sarcastic about vaccinations in the US.

~~~
swebs
The US has a 93% polio vaccination rate. What are you talking about?

[https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6334a1.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6334a1.htm)

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microtherion
Their couch is going to be considerably more comfy with $76M worth of spare
change dug out from under the pillows.

------
momofarm
So will Nigeria use Microsoft's solution after being "bought" by Bill and
Melinda Gates Foundation? (lol)

