
Should Your Spouse Be Your Best Friend? - SREinSF
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/style/should-your-spouse-be-your-best-friend.html
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unit91
> After all, if your spouse is your best friend, then whom do you complain to
> your spouse about?

Absolutely no one. I've been married for 11 years. My wife isn't perfect of
course, but she's still pretty fantastic. She is my best friend, for which I'm
thankful. I don't and won't gossip about her.

As a second- or third- hand observer, I can't count the number of times I've
heard someone gripe about their spouse and felt sorry for them. Marriage, and
relationships generally, are so much richer when you can either get over a
minor injury without even mentioning it, or respectfully discuss a more
serious one. I know it isn't "cool" to quote scripture around here but the
Bible says "Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to
overlook an offense." Amen.

~~~
Sacho
> After all, if your spouse is your best friend, then whom do you complain to
> your spouse about?

I agree with you, with just one small tweak: if your spouse is your best
friend, you should complain to your spouse about her. That's in fact what
separates a "real friend" from an acquaintance for me - the presumption that
my friend really cares about me and is willing to modify their behavior to
improve my happiness, within limits.

~~~
aesclepius
Wise words, thanks for this thread.

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kbutler
My wife was my best friend when we got married over twenty years ago, and that
has only ripened and deepened since then. She is the person I want to share
the joys and rough times with. When I see something beautiful, I want to share
it with her. When I have a rough day, or week, I want to talk it over with
her. We're raising our children together, planning for our retirement
together, and enjoying the days and years as they come.

And I hope the author didn't really mean the "with whom do you complain about
your spouse" line. If people respected and worked with their spouses instead
of complaining about them to other people, there'd be a lot fewer failed
marriages.

~~~
pcunite
That's great to hear. Ever read the books *The Five Love Languages" or even
"His Needs, Her Needs". They were very helpful to me.

~~~
kbutler
Five love languages, yes, I'll have to take a look at his/her.

Men are from mars, women are from Venus was helpful, and what wives wish men
knew about women - learning that sometimes you just need to listen (always
need to listen, sometimes that's all she needs me to do), and recognizing that
it's ok to need space sometimes, etc.

~~~
pcunite
Yeah, I was always trying to "fix" it within a few minutes of hearing her
statements. Allowing her to speak it out, develop images in her mind,
listening, and then after all that, I don't offer the solution! It is a
different way of "communication".

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faitswulff
A mostly uninteresting article in my opinion, but didn't agree with this:

> Dr. Bader said that she wished popular magazines would challenge the notion
> that you shouldn’t get married to change someone.

Most of the relationships I've seen where one partner has a goal of changing
the other person have failed. I would bet that this would bear out in a well-
designed study as well.

~~~
KGIII
Yeah, it's much easier to find someone you can accept than it is to try to
mold someone to your liking. In fact, I would submit that it says quite a bit
about the person for attempting that level of control.

I am not innocent. It's a lesson learned in time.

And, yeah, a strange choice of article for HN. But, here we are.

~~~
482794793792894
Well, you can just as well be best friends, even if you're wanting to mold
each other. Both parties just have to be open-minded about it.

You might even see it as positive to be challenged in your ways, as it helps
you to move yourself forward. For example, if you're a couch potato, you might
actively look for a sporty partner in hope of being motivated to do sports.

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joshmn
> After all, if your spouse is your best friend, then whom do you complain to
> your spouse about?

Never complain or otherwise say anything bad about your spouse to anyone but a
therapist. Never.

Your therapist doesn't have to forgive your spouse. A therapist doesn't have
to like your spouse. While you may forgive them, your friends/family won't be
so quick to do so, if they do so at all.

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codycraven
Of all the life long marriages I know (mine included at 11 years so far), all
consider their spouse their best friend.

I personally think my marriage could have been ruined many times over if I
leaned on someone other than my wife during times of difficulty.

~~~
icelancer
I am at 10, two kids, going strong and probably forever (who can say for sure,
of course?) - and my wife and I have separate best friends.

I really can't see why this has to be the case. There are things my wife
should share with someone close that she can fully trust, and sometimes that
can't be me. Same is true in the other direction.

~~~
zzalpha
Hey, if it works for you, it works for you.

That said, I'm curious to hear what kinds of things you're referring to. Do
you have some fictional examples?

My wife and I each have our own best friends, but in my own marriage (14
years... since we all have to publish our credentials ;), if there's something
I can't tell me wife, it's something I wouldn't tell _anyone_ , best friends
included.

The only obvious exception is if it's something about the marriage itself, but
in that case, I'd speak to a friend first only if I needed to work out my own
thoughts and emotions before I then talked to my wife. So even in that case,
it's more a matter of timing than keeping certain things from her entirely.

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makecheck
I am perhaps irrationally annoyed by people calling spouses their “best
friends”. We get it: you chose to _marry_ the person so _obviously_ you like
this person “best”, therefore someone _else_ should be your “best friend”. A
friend is a different thing. You can behave differently with a best friend.
You shouldn’t feel like you’re somehow undercutting your spouse just because
someone else is your best friend.

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dlwdlw
Here are some good points on this. About how expecting all your needs to be
met by one person will lead to dysfunction and how we create organizations to
fulfill these needs. The groups the make the most impact are those of
sufficient size to fulfill all these needs.

[http://us1.campaign-
archive.com/?u=78cbbb7f2882629a5157fa593...](http://us1.campaign-
archive.com/?u=78cbbb7f2882629a5157fa593&id=8641203570)

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Lazare
The article mostly throws up its metaphorical hands and concludes "maybe,
language is hard", which is fair enough. But:

> if your spouse is your best friend, then whom do you complain to your spouse
> about?

Complaining about your spouse to your friends is a wonderful way to damage
your relationship; the unthinking assumption that you _should_ be venting
about your spouse is harmful and should be challenged.

> Dr. Bader said that she wished popular magazines would challenge the notion
> that you shouldn’t get married to change someone. “I think that’s what
> marriage is about,” she said.

That sounds like horrifying bad advice if taken literally. I hope there was
some context that was omitted from the article. People certainly can and do
change, and obviously spouses should help encourage each other to change for
the better. So sure, marriage is, in part, about change, inasmuch as marriage
is a part of life, and life is about change. But to get married _in order_ to
change someone? As in "wow, I hate how extroverted this person I'm dating is,
_I know we 'll get married so I can make them introverted_"? That's the
opposite of a good idea, and warning people off it is a staple of popular
magazines, unpopular magazines, relationship counselling, and dating advice
because it's a _really dumb notion_.

~~~
zzalpha
_Complaining about your spouse to your friends is a wonderful way to damage
your relationship; the unthinking assumption that you should be venting about
your spouse is harmful and should be challenged._

Just on this point, I couldn't agree more.

The problem with "venting" is that whomever is listening is almost certainly
part of your personal echo chamber. And when dealing with a problem in one's
marriage, the last thing people need are mirrors reflecting themselves.

I can't tell you the number of times I've come out of a fight with my wife
where, some time later, I realized I was a total ass and needed to apologize
for my behaviour.

If I'd "vented" to someone, odds are it would've just hardened my resolve.

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msravi
The article doesn't touch upon it - but IMO, the gender of that "best friend"
matters a lot. Most people would probably be just fine with their spouse
having another best friend of the same gender, but definitely not of the
opposite.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Most people would probably be just fine with their spouse having another
> best friend of the same gender, but definitely not of the opposite.

It seems to me that people to whom this makes a difference are both extremely
insecure in their partner’s loyalty and extremely secure in their partner’s
exclusive heterosexuality.

Take away the former and the concern disappears, take away the latter and the
concern remains without the gender disparity.

~~~
asdfgadsfgasfdg
It's not about the partner's loyalty. Loyalty has very little to do with
emotions and works at a higher level. If someone spends a lot of quality time
with an individual whilst their home life is stressful (kids etc) then they
will almost inevitably develop an attraction to them (or to the idealized
version that one has of someone one doesn't have to live with). Meanwhile at
home feelings of being in-love have faded to loving and the day-to-day
realities are there and obvious. Then it is game over and loyalty is fairly
unlikely to prevent things happening.

Better to spend quality time with your spouse and re-enforce the bond the two
of you have for each other.

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Mz
_Over time, of course, this physical connection wanes. While many bemoan this
loss of titillation, Dr. Levine celebrates it. “It’s smart,” he said. “If
you’re going to be crazy about the other person all the time, how are you
going to raise kids? How are you going to be able to work?”_

This article is all kinds of horrifying. The above paragraph plus the phrase
"maintenance sex" = ick. What does that mean? "We are just going through the
motions cuz we gotta. Kind of like plunging the toilet."?

Maybe you should go read a book like "Lovers in marriage" before you go trying
to write anymore marriage advice.

My ex was my best friend. That in no way suggested it was platonic.

~~~
emodendroket
> What does that mean? "We are just going through the motions cuz we gotta.
> Kind of like plunging the toilet."?

In a sense, perhaps. A lot of people get into a pattern where they're busy
with other things and unable to have the kind of romantic setup they had
before. But, on the other hand, people generally enjoy sex even if they have
to do something unromantic like set a time on a calendar and just stick to it,
and it has the effect of deepening their relationship.

~~~
Mz
Or, you know, you can make time for each other because this is the most
important person in your life. Instead of making excuses.

Firsthand experience suggests to me that such an approach leads to better
experience over time, not going through the motions.

~~~
emodendroket
"Going through the motions" involves making time for each other.

~~~
Mz
I don't think you and I are on the same page here.

I was married for 22 years. Setting a date and keeping an appointment was not
how we handled it. I had a friend who would call me to bitch about how her and
her husband did it once a month, they were just too busy and did not have
time, etc. My husband would walk in and start making snarky remarks while I
was on the phone and I would shush him.

When they were busy, this couple recorded their favorite shows during the week
and watched them together on Saturday night. They did not lack the time. They
just thought X Files was vastly more important than having a love life.

That was not at all how my marriage worked. I quit being sympathetic. I made
polite noises and tried to change the subject.

~~~
emodendroket
Ok. Well what do you propose a couple does if they find they're not having sex
as much as they want? Just hope the problem will fix itself?

~~~
Mz
Make time for each other. Have a date night, even if you are broke and
watching a movie on the TV at home. The point is spending time together, not
spending money.

Never, ever go to bed mad. Settle it. This is usually followed by makeup sex.

Never tell your spouse to sleep on the couch. If you are so mad that you can't
imagine sleeping next to them, grab a blanket and take yourself to the couch.
Argue over who gets to declare "No, I'm sleeping on the couch!" (It gets funny
at this point and hard to keep a straight face.)

Kiss each other good night every single night, even if you just had a fight.
This often initiates makeup sex.

Talk.

Actively look for sexy activities to share, like oil massages.

Shop for naughty lingerie together.

Share your fantasies.

Being a lover in marriage is about trust and intimacy. This requires ongoing
efforts at communication. It also requires that you invest time in the
relationship. It takes at least 15 hours a week to establish and maintain
intimacy. Intimacy is the font of good sex when novelty is no longer your
shtick.

Remember that all is fair in love and war and this is love, not war. Make up
caring exceptions to the rules you were raised with and to hell with what
other people think.

Always fight fair. This is your lover. It undermines the relationship to be
nasty to them when you disagree and the price you pay for that often shows up
in the bedroom.

~~~
emodendroket
These things are all great but if your problem is feeling worn out all the
time turning it into a big task like this is the opposite of what you need.

~~~
Mz
Marriage is inherently a big task. There is no way around that.

When you have trust and good communication it makes it easier to get together
without an appointment at times when you genuinely are busy and exhausted. You
make it clear you need 15 minutes with your wife more than you need that extra
20 minutes of sleep on a night when you have to get up in 5 hours. You
humorously agree to The Sedate Thing when you want sex but are not up for The
Wild Thing.

You also work at resolving the issues keeping you too exhausted to have
quality time. Life happens, but if issues like that never improve, it is often
an excuse for people who aren't really comfortable being close for some
reason.

That may sound lecturing. It isn't intended to be. It is intended to be
empowering. My experience was career military, a very demanding job. We had
two special needs kids. I was chronically short of sleep the first 7 years of
my oldest son's life and I had chronic health issues.

My husband and I didn't have cushy lives. But we set a high bar for certain
things and it paid off.

Best.

------
rayiner
Viewing a spouse in terms of a friendship is not helpful in my opinion.
Marriage is _sui generis._ It is, especially if you have kids, an economic and
financial partnership. I think my wife is funny and I like spending time with
her, but what really lets me sleep deeply at night is that she’s highly
capable and professionally successful. I could die tomorrow and my daughter
would be well provided for. It’s not something I appreciated when I was young
and had fanciful ideas about western love marriage, but is definitely
something I appreciate now that I’m old.

~~~
emodendroket
Most marriages do not involve two equally-successful professionals, and at
least in my case from a purely financial perspective marrying a foreign woman
with no real contacts in the US besides me wasn't very advantageous (I should
probably clarify that I met my wife abroad because it sounds like I'm talking
about a mail-order bride). Nevertheless I think it was worth doing for the
tremendously positive effect it's had on my happiness and well-being.

I guess if I had kids I'd have to think about a life insurance policy (I
occasionally think about doing that just for my wife).

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projektir
This is one of those areas where I would take every statement and even study
with a pound of salt.

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avenoir
I've never been married, but I don't quite know if it's even possible to be
with someone for the long haul and not be close friends. It would be very much
unpleasant otherwise. A business transaction of sorts. Having said that, from
my personal experience, I think seeing your partner as your only best friend
is something comparable to putting all of your eggs in one basket. Nothing
lasts forever and as amazing as things look today they might not be all that
great tomorrow and all of a sudden you're all you've got. Just for that reason
alone I think it's healthy to maintain a close friendship with someone other
than your partner.

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Spooky23
Answer: It depends.

I have friends who really aren’t, but they seem to have a rewarding
relationship anyway. Not my cup of tea, but other people’s marriages aren’t
any of my business!

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didibus
I don't know about best, but a good friend at minimum. Hopefully not your only
one though.

