

Ask HN: Do we need caffeine? - fr22

Whenever I sleep for less than 8 or so hours, I feel really tired the next day and have trouble getting out of bed. This is true even if I sleep for slightly less, like 6 hours. In fact, even if I sleep for 8 hours, I still get really tired before many of my friends at night.<p>Many people I know past college sleep 6 or less hours a night and appear to be doing fine. But of these people, 100% are habitual caffeine consumers.<p>I have read some articles and journals in the past (sorry, no sources off hand) that claim that caffeine comes with a list of side effects, some of which effect your ability to think at the highest levels, and this has always prevented me from becoming a caffeine consumer.<p>But I have been wondering lately if it is physically possible to be someone who runs off 5-6 hours of sleep a night and never consume caffeine. As hackers who like to work on their own projects before work or late at night, this seems of particular interest to people around here.<p>Has anyone had any personal success (no myths please) extending the amount of productive, awake hours you get each day? Or do you believe that we need caffeine to live this lifestyle?
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grandalf
I do drink coffee every day, but I haven't found Caffeine to increase my
overall amount of wakefulness. It just gives me a bit more control over it. I
actually analogize caffeine to a high interest loan.

I think a lot of hackers consume it the way I do. Start out with moderate
amounts, then increase the intake week by week for a while, then cut way back
(sometimes with some withdrawal symptoms) then repeat. When used this way, I
think it's fairly appealing because you're essentially spending future
alertness as you go, making for longer stretches or better focus, but then
after a while you have to catch up, sleep extra, and re-calibrate to low/no
caffeine or else you may end up with stomach irritation, jitters, insomnia,
etc.

I'm not sure whether it impairs high level cognitive functioning. It does help
me focus better, and I have found that my most focused state is not always my
most creative, but I always assumed that's unique to me.

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mipnix
When you're in your twenties, you could eat styrofoam and still function
appropriately. I like to believe I can still do what I used to do in my
twenties...just can't do it as often.

A twenty minute nap in the middle of the day is hugely beneficial. Just enough
to not get into deep REM. I read somewhere, maybe it was apocryphal, DaVinci
or Michelangelo would doze off with a spoon in their hand, over a metal
platter. When they were just about to fall into deep sleep, the spoon would
fall out and hit the platter and wake them up.

We don't NEED caffeine but in moderation it is no more detrimental than
working at your desk.
[http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/showArticle.jht...](http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197006785)

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Riesling
Most studies I read on caffeine are either inconclusive or they contradict
other studies done on the subject.

So there is basically only one good way to find if caffeine works for you. Try
it. But do it scientifically an be strict about it. Try different drinking
patterns and amounts during different weeks. Write down your experiences. This
is important.

From my personal experience it helps me to stabilize my wake and sleep cycle.
I am more awake during the day and get more tired at night, which is a good
thing. I might add that I only dring 2 cups daily and I never drink coffee
after 3:00 pm.

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awa
I have monitored my caffeine intake for quite a while and keep it down to 1-2
cups a day.

For the past week or so, I find it extremely beneficial at around 3-4 pm when
it gives me the boost required for me to shift from low energy items to high
concentration items.

I guess it might be possible to work without caffeine, but you would have to
get a trigger to switch yourself from low energy to high energy zone, good
substitutes could be a walk, workout, a game of foosball etc.

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_delirium
I know people who drink 5-6 cups a day and are able to be quite productive
with strangely little sleep, but it's never worked for me, so either I'm
missing something or it doesn't work the same way on me. For me, a single cup
of coffee, or occasionally two, can help me feel a bit more awake and
energetic. But once it gets to 3+, I get jittery and can't concentrate--- have
to get up and go for a walk outside or something.

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MK5
I have 4-5 a day and I have no trouble in sleeping (sleep well from 1am to
6-7am). Actually, I work better when I wake up early and work during the day
then working at night and sleeping in the afternoon. When I was younger, I use
to work late, at night, but I was wasting my time procrastinating and doing
side-stuffs than just focusing on my task.

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rtra
This seems to be the general opinion of the specialists: The amount of sleep a
person needs is not universal. If you don't sleep what _you_ need you'll be
harming yourself, and abusing coffee will only worsen things.

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noodle
how refreshed you are when you wake up is more a function of when you wake up
relative to your sleep cycles. you can do two things -- set yourself a
consistent, permanent sleep schedule (always go to bed and wake up at the same
time), or research your own sleep patterns to try and determine about when you
hit phase 2 non-REM sleep, and set your alarm clock accordingly.

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rms
<http://lesswrong.com/lw/1w1/effects_of_caffeine/>

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konad
Caffeine is a complex substance, its interaction with your body is going to
have a personal element.

Some of its properties: it is a diuretic, a vitamin C inhibitor, it increases
your blood pressure.

Anadin Extra is merely Anadin with added caffeine.

So you should treat it with appropriate measures. Just saying it affects sleep
from its stimulation effects is not the whole story.

Your body has a daily cycle. I would contend that staying up after midnight
creates more imbalance than not. "Early to bed, early to rise makes a man
healthy, wealthy and wise" is not as glib a suggestion as it sounds.

I know from direct experience as my doctor told me "go to bed before midnight
and throw away your alarm clock" and I've thanked him for it ever since.

Back to the coffee : I've experiemented with it on myself. My results are "no
more than 1 litre fresh ground a day (about 30g of beans I think), all before
14:00hrs".

And if you want to lose weight, drink it right after meals.

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rtra
>I know from direct experience as my doctor told me "go to bed before midnight
and throw away your alarm clock" and I've thanked him for it ever since.

I wish I could be a morning person. I've been trying for years. I started
running first thing in the morning, and I loved it. I would give up sex for
it.

What ends up happening is, I start sleeping 4-6h each night and become sleep
deprived. After 3-5 months I'm burned off.

Now, my neurologyst, who does sleep research, says it will be probably
impossible to make me a morning person. She put me on melatonin and english
breakfasts, and on a 10-to-2-AM cycle, and I found out about a new state of
being, well rested and fresh.

So, that may not be possibility for everyone...

