
The Immigration Ban Is a Headfake, and We’re Falling for It - elnado
https://medium.com/@jakefuentes/the-immigration-ban-is-a-headfake-and-were-falling-for-it-b8910e78f0c5#.p363diuhm
======
legostormtroopr
By "immigration ban", did you mean "90 immigration halt based on countries
flagged as dangerous by the previous administration, that has been able to
encourage Saudi Arabia to sign up for a Mid-East safe zone for refugees to
help keep them closer to their homes and families[0] as well as encourage
Pakistan to arrest a known terrorist who killed 100 Indians and has been free
for 8 years[1]"?

What Trump did was disruptive and unpopular, but its important to recognise
that international politics isn't about whether one lady dies in hospital
(which was fake [2]), its about whether hundreds of people die and if
countries can work together. Trump has shown that he is not unwilling to play
hardball with the international community if it won't start doing its part
about cleaning up the mid-East.

[0] - [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/saudis-uae-
pred...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/saudis-uae-predictably-
ba_b_14486264.html) [1] -
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/pakistan-f...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/pakistan-
fearing-us-visa-ban-cracks-down-on-militant-
group/2017/01/31/31412514-e7bb-11e6-903d-9b11ed7d8d2a_story.html) [2] -
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-
nation/wp/2017/02/0...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-
nation/wp/2017/02/01/tale-of-an-iraqi-woman-dying-because-of-trump-travel-ban-
unravels/?utm_term=.7a34251ad6f2)

~~~
mikeash
Banning existing visa holders isn't "playing hardball," it's just downright
evil.

A case might be made for shutting down new refugees from those countries, or
even new non-refugee visas. But there's no sane case to be made for keeping
out people with green cards.

~~~
pdx
How about this? 'U.S. Visa Process Missed San Bernardino Wife’s Online
Zealotry' [1]

She had a visa, but perhaps she should have been further vetted, yes?

[1] [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-
attacks...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-attacks-us-
visa-process-tashfeen-maliks-remarks-on-social-media-about-jihad-were-
missed.html)

~~~
mikeash
Too bad she wouldn't have been affected by this ban in the first place.

Edit: that dodges the main point. A better response would be, the other
attacker was a US citizen, does that then make a good argument for banning US
citizens from entry?

~~~
pdx
Agreed. Obviously it needs to be expanded. As is often mentioned, Saudi Arabia
should be included because of 9/11.

This woman was from Pakistan which suffers terrible internal terrorism
problems. While the government of Pakistan is great, there is obviously a
terrorism problem in that country. It seems like perhaps that would be grounds
to make Pakistan another possible 'country of concern'.

~~~
mikeash
The government is great? Are you talking about the same Pakistan that
sheltered Osama bin Laden for a decade and regularly sends terrorists into
India?

~~~
legostormtroopr
Yes, the same Pakistan that after harboring another terrorist for 8 years,
quickly arrested him to prevent getting put on that same "countries of
concern" list.

The migration halt inconvenienced 100 or so people, but it has had a much
bigger (almost positive) impact in ways people are ignoring so they can call
Trump Hitler.

He isn't exterminating people, he just said "look this area of the world is in
crisis, we don't want that here so stop coming" and this is making everyone
else pull up and start doing stuff.

That seems like its doing some good, and isn't just "outright evil" as you
called it.

~~~
mikeash
Tens of thousands of people had their visas revoked. The only thing that
mitigated it was the courts putting a stop to it quickly. Saying it only
inconvenienced a hundred people is not only wrong, it wouldn't even be a
defense of the order if it was right.

------
wwwdonohue
Except all of the actual journalism being done on the Trump administration
suggests incompetence, not malice, to be at the heart of its struggles.

~~~
pdx

        > Except all of the actual journalism being done on 
        > the Trump administration suggests incompetence, not malice
    

I don't believe the journalists are incompetent. I believe there is actual
malice there. No amount of incompetance can explain how they always say
"muslim ban" and "7 muslim countries" instead of ever referring to the 'Visa
Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015' [1],
where all of those countries were originally classified as 'countries of
concern'.

The 'journalism' shows large amounts of malice. It's not just incompetence.

[1] [https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-
tr...](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-
restrictions-visa-waiver-program)

~~~
mikeash
I think using the President's own words to describe his order is entirely
reasonable.

~~~
pdx
He said that in his signing statement, or in some other speech referring to
the executive order? Where's your link?

~~~
mikeash
It was not a public statement, but was used behind the scenes.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-
fix/wp/2017/01/29/tr...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-
fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-
commission-to-do-it-legally/)

~~~
pdx
Hearsay evidence from Giuliani, as told to us by The Washington Post.

Are you aware that Jeff Bezos controls the Washington Post, and is rapidly
anti-Trump? It is clear to many that the Washington Post has a leaning in all
of it's political journalism that borders on MSNBC levels of bias.

Got anything else?

~~~
narrowrail
There is a video of Giuliani saying these things, so if you would like to see
it, just do a search. In fact, it is a (possibly _the_ ) critical argument
being made in the legal case this evening.

------
molecule
Previous discussions:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=headfake&sort=byDate&prefix=fa...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=headfake&sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)

------
DelaneyM
I find the idea that this is all some Machiavellian scheme somewhat
reassuring. It would imply a level of competence we haven't seen in
conservative leadership (this group in particular) in decades.

I mean, it's not like their eventual goal is eating babies or something - they
want to grab power & wealth, which they'll do for four years then disappear.
I'd pay 1% of the US' GDP to buy them out of that investment gladly.

Sadly, Occam's razor shreds this theory. All signs indicate a plain old
regressive cadre of incompetence, with everyone who understands how this
"government" thing works having run for the hills / private enterprise. :(

------
michalski26
I've thought the same thing for a while. It reminds me of the line from
Charlie Wilson's War...

Gust Avrakotos: As long as the press sees sex and drugs behind the left hand,
you can park a battle carrier behind the right hand and no one's gonna fucking
notice.

------
elmerfud
DHS is a department created with the intention of being evil and removing
freedoms. Before jumping to this massive power grab coup conclusion by potus,
people really need to understand how bad DHS is. All the information is out
there documenting their abuses of the freedoms of the citizens and noncitizens
of the USA. It is not something new with the Trump administration. They
routinely ignore courts, even the supreme court, and neither Bush nor Obama
could keep them under control. Trump will also not be able to control them.
While the Trump order gave them some latitude to run amok with their abuse,
historically they have always abused their power and treated all people with
distain.

DHS needs to be disbanded.

~~~
r00fus
> and neither Bush nor Obama could keep them under control

The Bush administration created the DHS.

~~~
elmerfud
Yes, which is why I listed him. It should underscore the problem with them
being out of control when even the president who pushed for their creation
couldn't curtail their abuses.

------
packetized
I feel as though Hanlon's Razor applies here, but I'm not quite 100%
confident.

