

Mongrel2 Cannot Defeat Ninjas - spahl
http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1286736953.html

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shykes
Zed, I think the narrative in your docs is partly to blame.

It starts with an awesome sqlite config engine, and continues, almost as an
afterthought, to a possible application: a python-like configuration file
(section 3.3).

It seems to me users want to know about that configuration file first. Sure,
some of them will evolve into power users, eager to hear about the internal
sqlite3 engine and its endless possibilities. But that's later, and frankly is
not as important. What proportion of mongrel2 users will programmatically
drive its configuration? I'm guessing not that many.

I for one am an automation freak and am very excited about this design. But
you can't blame everybody for misunderstanding it. After all, the very first
command in the tutorial has "config.sqlite" in it. That's _before_ you talk
about the actual config file format!

------
thyrsus
Almost as funny as "You write a distributed map-reduce function in Erlang!".

I think people are reacting out of bad experiences with other binary file
configuration systems. Examples: windows registry; Solaris as LDAP client (ok,
so the stored files might be text today, but the documentation disavows their
format and declares the command line is the One True Interface); Solaris smf
(again, text files underneath, but the documentation deprecates their format);
Gnome configuration (I'd be grateful if someone could point to useful
documentation there, or some kind of road map).

~~~
bad_user
Funny you mention GConf, since its storage engine is based on text
configuration files that you can edit by yourself (not binary and in fact
those text files are even human readable).

I mean, I'm a power user and I like Apache's configuration format, but there
was a steep learning curve involved, and for a production server that's super-
duper fine, but for normal users it is super painful to deal with different
syntaxes / conventions / locations for every god damn application you're
using.

GConf sucks, but the alternatives are worse.

Also, the technical problems of Windows Registry have more to do with it being
a half-arsed implementation of a filesystem, not to mention inappropriate use
of it (many apps using it as a database).

~~~
nailer
What sucks about gconf? I like it for precisely the reasons you describe: I
can use vi, the command line, or a GUI app just as effectively.

------
shalmanese
Zed is confusing for malice what can adequately be explained with
incompetence.

~~~
nailer
Per the parent poster, 99% of apps with a config file and an initscript
mention the config file in their 'getting started' docs. M2's doc doesn't do
this (but has time for inline rants). Zed's not great at writing docs, which
is fine, but he doesn't really seem to want any feedback about said docs
either - his normal response if anyone doesn't get anything from reading his
docs, or suggests anything, is to get angry at them.

Edit: actually I see, 2 months post abuse, the Getting Started guide now has
less rants, and a config file. Cheers Zed. That wan't so hard was it?

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Poiesis
Zed, I totally get what you're saying. I do think ninjas exist in larger
teams, but maybe that's not a mongrel2 priority, which would make sense.

The bit that gets me that I think some take issue with is that there's a human
readable representation of the configuration _that does not actually represent
the configuration_ . Except when it does, sometimes. Even usually. But there's
no guarantee. Not saying your decision is wrong (any more than "language x os
wrong", but it's a reason why some people may not like it.

I almost wonder sometimes if the configuration should be solely accessible
through an http API, just to shut people up. ;)

------
scott_s
I find the p.s. completely incongruent with the rest of the post.

~~~
mikeryan
This post is in response to a post Chris wrote earlier. Its linked to at the
beginning.

~~~
scott_s
That's my point. It appears to be in response to him, but then at the end he
says it is not.

~~~
candeira
It is in response to his post, just not about him.

