
Meeting A Troll - Liu
http://www.traynorseye.com/2012/09/meeting-troll.html
======
yelsgib
For those of you who claim that the right thing in this situation would be to
turn the child over to the authorities - what exactly do you think the
authorities are going to do to make this situation better? The child obviously
has some darkness that he needs to work through - to work through darkness he
needs the support of a loving community. I find it very sad and disturbing
that some commenters (who I assume are adults) believe that the right thing to
do is to hand a child like this over to the police or mental institutions.
This idea that the police are some sort of magical wand that you can wave at
problems to make them go away is at the center of our (our here meaning the US
& Britain's) social decay (c.f. the current treatment of drug abusers, ethnic
minorities, and the "mentally ill" in the United States).

Assuming this story is true, what OP did was the right, human, adult thing to
do - to treat the child as a human being capable of change and growth and to
see to it that the community accepted him and moved him towards change.
Concepts like "justice" and "psychosis" are easy to throw around and are very
practical, but their use is typically the root of more harm than good.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Stop. Rewind.

You are calling a 17 year old person a "child". This is wrong, and perfectly
in keeping with the trend of failing to raise children into mature adults.

17 year olds will be able to vote on their next birthday. They can hold jobs,
they can drive cars, they can fly planes, they can even serve in the armed
forces with their parents' permission. 17 year olds fought in the battle of
Iwo Jima.

Calling this person a child diminishes them, and takes away their capacity for
agency and responsibility. A big part of being a healthy, functional adult in
society is responsibility. You can nurture them within a loving community all
you want but if you protect them entirely from the consequences of their
actions they will never become anything more than children.

~~~
anonymous
Just because he's 17 doesn't mean he has grown up. He obviously hasn't and
treating him like a grown-up and expecting him to take responsibility when he
obviously hasn't reached that part of his mental development would be very
detrimental. That's why the article writer made sure to impress upon his
parents that the boy needs counselling - to work through and correct whatever
mental/behavioural issues he has.

That argument of course only holds if your goal is utilitarian with regards to
the well-being of society as a whole and that family in particular. If you
just seek to satisfy your inner craving for "justice", by all means - call the
cops, destroy his life, create another criminal and drug user and watch him
and his parents lose any hope of normal life, while you laugh and twirl your
moustache from atop the moral high tower.

~~~
InclinedPlane
If it would be detrimental to him to "grow up" then will it not be detrimental
to society to put him out in a world where he could do harm to others?
Especially given that he already has a history of doing exactly that?

If the premise here is that this man-child is too immature to take on the
responsibilities of adult society (such as the right to own firearms, the
right to drive automobiles, the right to drink alcohol, etc.), that he is in
some way developmentally disabled, then should he not be kept away from
society and denied the ability to hurt others?

You are setting up a false dichotomy here. You are saying that the choice is
either that this person be sheltered by a nurturing and loving community who
protects him from the consequences of his actions and if not then his life
will be ruined utterly. He needs to face the consequences of his actions. He
needs to learn that it is necessary to abide by just laws in order to live in
society and to fail to do so will result in very serious consequences. If he
cannot accept any responsibility then he has no place in civil society.

What are the possible consequences of someone being sheltered from the
consequences of their vile, hateful, violent acts? That person can become
mentally and emotionally twisted and their hatred and lust for wanton
destruction can grow. And this can occur _even within the sheltering arms of a
loving community_. And then the hurt they cause others and the irreparable
damage they do to themselves becomes even greater until they become a monster.
A rapist, a serial killer, or merely an outcast who cannot mesh with society.

This is not about moral high towers, this is about ensuring that society does
not become burdened with so-called adults who have never faced true
responsibility and are incapable of functioning properly within society.

~~~
engtech
"then should he not be kept away from society and denied the ability to hurt
others?"

How long do you think he should be kept away from society?

His actions don't justify a life sentence or the death penalty, so he's going
to be part of society at some point.

Is taking him out of society going to make him a better person? No.

The best way to rehabilitate someone is for them to have something to lose.

If this 17yo had a wife/child of his own then it is far less likely that he
would have done this harassment.

~~~
bloaf
I think it is highly unlikely that any of his actions would result in any
significant jail time. Community service, a fine, and/or some sort of
probation are all more likely.

I had a childhood friend who got in with a bad crowd in high school. At some
point, when he was about 17, he was caught illegally entering a business at
night. His parents refused to go pick him up from the police station, so he
had to spend the night and most of the next day in a cell. I don't believe his
ultimate punishment involved any jail time.

I respect his parent's decision. That sort of action teaches a troublesome kid
that there are real consequences for breaking laws beyond just upset parents.
While a criminal record might make it harder for him to get a job in the
future, it certainly doesn't make it impossible. I also suspect it is better
than letting a kid think that other people will protect him and he can get
away with whatever he wants.

~~~
InclinedPlane
A criminal record for a misdemeanor as a minor can be expunged fairly easily.

------
nhashem
For what it's worth, if you're the target of especially terrifying harassment
like this, it's important to keep two things in mind: the more targeted the
harassment is, the easier it is to identify the harasser, and the more likely
it is that there's some sort of personal connection.

If you're receiving stuff in the mail (like the lunchbox with ashes) or stuff
literally just dropped on your doorstep (the dead flowers), it's extremely
unlikely that someone on the internet you have absolutely zero connection with
just randomly picked you to ruin your life that badly just for some lulz.

I'm glad the OP was able to take the steps he needed to identify his harasser,
which I'm sure was a lot more empowering than living in fear and checking his
door locks every night.

~~~
jessedhillon
A security professional once recommended Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear"
[1] to me as a source of excellent information to always have in mind.

One of de Becker's insight is exactly what you say here -- that most potential
attackers are motivated by a personal connection, and that animus is also what
makes it possible to identify and uncover them. He also has extensive thoughts
about identifying if/when the harassment will cross over into physical
attacks. I would recommend anyone read it, especially if you have loved ones
who have lived in fear of stalkers.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-
Violenc...](http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-
Violence/dp/0440508835)

~~~
pimentel
That seems interesting. Will the book make me more or less obsessed with
walking-on-the-street safety?

------
ary
It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the
hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is
important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do.

There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP
experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in
adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the OP he should
have taken legal action and had the youth examined by a credible mental health
professional if only as a favor to others.

~~~
wamatt
As much as I loathe being the guy defending trolls, the level of judgement
expressed in this thread is a bit troubling.

Labeling this kid a 'pyschopath' might feel nice, but it's rather inaccurate.
[1]. Specifically when he saw the damage he'd caused, a very human emotional
response of remorse and regret kicked in. We have no reason to believe it's
fake, especially given we weren't the one's there, and the author believed it
to be genuine.

That said, I found this to be a really touching story, and am amazed at the
kindness and wisdom of the victim.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy>

~~~
ary
First, I'm well aware of the definition of psychopathy. Second, psychopathy is
not a binary condition. An individual can be on a spectrum of severity, or (as
has been noted by people researching the condition) psychopaths can and do
mimic the responses to emotion that they see in others but do not feel
themselves. Perhaps he is or perhaps he isn't, but without additional action
of the part of the OP and the kid's parents there is no way he will be
properly diagnosed until something similar, but more severe, might happen.

So, yes, we are making judgements in this thread, but not everyone here is
being "judgmental." Making a considered decision about available evidence is a
reasonable act. The repercussions of this young man's actions should not have
been watered down because of his age, and especially not in light of the toll
it exacted on his victim. Others might be calling for extreme punishment, but
I am calling for appropriate response.

------
unreal37
Interesting. I don't think I would have done the same, and even with time to
think long and hard about it, I still would have gone after him with all my
might. I don't think letting him off with just a warning is in any sense
"justice" nor in the end was the smart choice.

There's something _psychotic_ about harassing someone you know for YEARS,
anonymously, in such a vicious way as he did. It's just cruelty on a level
akin to torturing dogs for fun. "It was kind of a game" is hardly an excuse.
"I will kill you, I will rape your wife, I will do <unspeakable things> to
your wife's dead body..." Sending ashes. Putting dead flowers on the door
step. Causing the man to be paranoid in his own house. Causing him to cry over
the safety of his family. This is beyond harassment, and lasted daily/weekly
over a period of years.

I almost don't believe this is real. How could a psychotic 17-year old be let
off with a handshake and a look in the eye? He's going to kill someone
someday. I'm stunned.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
I can't imagine that, as part of the deal, updates proving that counseling is
happening aren't a part of the story. I agree with you that I wouldn't let it
go without having some knowledge that he _is_ getting the help he obviously
needs.

I wouldn't want to ruin a 17-year-old's life, either, but I wouldn't hesitate
for a moment if I felt my family was in _any_ danger. We don't know the
relationship between the OP and his friend that might mitigate the "any
danger" part.

On the other hand, kids' lives are ruined in the US (and possibly other
countries; I don't have enough experience to know) on a regular basis because
we want to have "justice" at all costs. Justice is important, but so is mercy.
Mercy (NOT rolling over!) is, ultimately, what will progress society.

~~~
zainny
If a person takes such a personal, aggressive, and malicious position towards
you and your family, by reporting them to the proper authorities you haven't
"ruined" their life. You shouldn't feel guilty bringing the perpetrator of a
serious crime to justice.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
If our penal system was able to rehabilitate, I would 100% agree with you.
Unfortunately, given the incredibly high recidivism of convicts, I don't think
that is true. Worse yet, prison appears to be a criminal training ground. As a
result, I, personally, would be hesitant to throw somebody into that
environment if I felt another option that could lead to rehabilitation
existed.

The important piece is "another option". If it were my kid, you can bet he
wouldn't he getting off easy, but I would hope for an opportunity to
rehabilitate. On the other hand, if it were my kid, I would be he first to
call the cops if that's what was necessary.

It's unfortunate that our zeal for "justice" has put us in a situation that we
say "to hell with the people".

------
smoyer
Wow ... I'd like to shake your hand because I think you handled your friend's
son with an amazing amount of grace. It's horrible that you had to be
tormented like that, but at 17 he may have learned how to be human. In my
experience, not many of us understood empathy at that age.

Let me know when you're in the U.S. and perhaps I can buy you a dinner.

~~~
skeletonjelly
Agreed. Always refreshing to see somebody putting in hard work to make this
world a better place rather than taking the easier road (whatever that would
have been).

------
drhayes9
My wife and I just had a baby and it has made me realize that I would burn the
world to cinders in defense of my family. I have no idea how this guy reached
through the fire and shook this kid's hand. Wow.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
It is an amazing experience to learn that there is somebody who is more
important to you than you, isn't it? Whatever combination of biology,
psychology and sociology that brings that about, it is something to
experience!

~~~
prawn
I've got a nine-week old. Loved your comment and I'm passing it on to my wife.
So true.

------
dean
That's not a troll. And that's not harassment. That's a stalker. I'm shocked
Twitter did nothing about this kind of repeated targeted abuse. And I'm very
surprised that the police did nothing for someone who was receiving death
threats at his front door.

~~~
mike-cardwell
The bit about the police not being "able" to do anything struck me as a bit
bizarre as well...

"I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were,
there didn't seem much that could be done."

Err... Death threat... Contact Twitter and get the IP address of the user,
then contact the ISP to get the home address.

Maybe the police couldn't be "bothered" to do anything, but they were
certainly capable of it.

~~~
drats
This should be the top comment. Again and again we see Twitter, Facebook etc.
being blamed for this type of stuff. But in truth these companies have well
established processes to deal with requests from law enforcement authorities,
as do ISPs. This situation is scandalous when you see how much time and effort
is devoted to revenue raising through traffic and parking violations, but
there is apparently no time to follow up death threats.

------
po
I remember reading a story about a man who was knocked unconscious by a group
of kids as he was riding past them on a bicycle not too long ago. That story
followed a similar trajectory including the writer not pressing charges under
the conditions that he would be able to meet with the attacker and ask him
questions about why he did what he did.

One of the things I remember about the article was the reaction from the
police who said that the show of remorse from the attacker was a well-
practiced show and that they had seen it many times in repeat offenders.

Does anyone remember more details about this that would help find it?

------
citricsquid
that is not "trolling", that's (pretty bad) harassment. I get the feeling this
is a story written to prove a point. Nobody would refer to this as "trolling".

~~~
zxcdw
How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my
understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as
trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of
animal abuse and violence lol".

I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've
tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to
go into the subject by mentioning some local websites and memes, kids open up
voluntarily very well), it's exactly the online harassing and _bullying_ which
is considered(perhaps a form of) trolling. These are exactly the imageboard
kids who find it _cool_ to "piss people off". Why? "I dont know. For the
lulz". It's like a hobby for some.

I personally find this stuff disgusting and directly relate it to bullying in
school. Just because it happens online is not _any_ more tolerable. Turns out
many people disagree.

~~~
citricsquid
Trolling is short term, it's fucking with someone for the sake of fucking with
_someone_ , anyone. If you attack one person over multiple years that becomes
more than trolling, it becomes personal. Trolling is not personal. As you say,
it's "for the lulz", it's to get a reaction, any reaction. If someone wants a
reaction they don't care who from.

I've never met anyone that would call years of harassment that extended into
real life "trolling". That's personal and it's a serious problem. I run a
large forum (I'd guess some of the kids you mention use it) and I've had all
manner of insults and threats, all of which are trolling, they're from people
that want to annoy me or upset me but only because they see me as a target _at
that moment_. If someone were to come to my house and leave things in my
postbox, or mail me stuff, or follow me around the internet for years that
would be harassment.

I just asked a bunch of my staff members (people that deal with this sort of
thing every day) and everyone considers what the OP went through harassment,
it's not in anyway considered trolling.

~~~
zxcdw
I am not saying it is _not_ harassment. Though, I don't consider the terms to
be orthogonal(as in, they can co-exist within the same context). I am saying
it is my understanding that many kids(not all) consider the stuff in the blog
post as _very successful_ trolling in fact. The act of trolling, as I see it,
is to delibirately cause harm and grief to the victim regardless of means.
What differs it from just simply bullying the victim is that it happens
online, and that's how many (victims) have put it too.

~~~
jarrett
The term "trolling," as the folks I know use it, doesn't refer to stuff
intended to cause harm or grief. Rather, it usually refers to something that
would cause fleeting annoyance, or perhaps an eye roll. Or something designed
to stir up a tempest in a teapot, e.g. an exaggeratedly controversial forum
comment.

What the OP describes wouldn't be called trolling in my social circle. It
would be called stalking. I think this goes far beyond a source of lulz.

~~~
stcredzero
>* The term "trolling," as the folks I know use it, doesn't refer to stuff
intended to cause harm or grief.*

That's very interesting. I don't think you'd have to look very hard to find
someone who would include harm and/or grief short of murder as "trolling."
Just making someone feel like they have a target painted on them can cause
substantive harm to someone. Do this in the context of gender, and it can be
called sexual harassment. Do this in the context of race, and it could be
called racism or a hate crime.

I remember the time before 9-11 and McVeigh when talking about a bomb in the
US was a joke, because it was inconceivable such a thing would really happen.
Amazing how a change in _experience_ changes that. All of you college students
and suburban kids in your teens and 20's out there, keep in mind that there's
a whole lot of experience out there you don't have.

~~~
dkarl
We shouldn't let sociopaths define the language we use to describe them.
That's how "hacker" came to mean "criminal."

------
baddox
> _He wanted to call the authorities there and then and turn him in. But I
> said no._

That's an impressive show of self control, but I wonder if his next victims
will have preferred that you did contact the authorities. Presumably, at age
17 this guy won't be living with his parents for much longer.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
I really hope the OP didn't just leave it with "get him counseling" and then
walk away. I hope he required follow-up that the counseling was happening and
progress was being made.

In fact, if I was in that situation, I think I would want to be given the
ability to talk to the counselor about the progress (or lack thereof) being
made. Even if I knew he was going to counseling, I don't think I would be
comfortable just washing my hands beyond that, for exactly the reason you
point out.

~~~
ignignokt
Isn't that sort of information confidential between the counsellor and the
patient? Even if it's not legally protected I don't think many counsellors
would be happy telling you that sort of thing

~~~
lallysingh
You can always ask for copies of the bill.

------
magobarca
I have to ask. Why was this young man given the opportunity to escape the law
despite committing a hate crime. He threatened murder and rape. Would he have
been afforded the privilege of a hand shake rather than hand cuffs if he
was... say a member of a outgroup, say for example, an Arab?

~~~
Karunamon
Because the police were never involved directly. "He" was still legally a
child, for one. For two, the author was unbelievably gracious enough to not
take him straight to the cops.

A happy ending all around, really. Hopefully the teen idiot will have
something good come of his counselling and the world will be a slightly better
place.

~~~
derleth
> Hopefully the teen idiot will have something good come of his counselling
> and the world will be a slightly better place.

Sociopaths benefit from counseling in that they become better able to fool
counselors. We can only hope whoever he goes to realizes this.

~~~
datalus
You trolling? It never ceases to amaze me that people who read a blog post
suddenly form hard lined opinions about a real world situation.

To me, it's a bit sociopath-like to be so vindictive about a situation that
you know next to nothing about. What's the relationship between the poster and
the kid? He most likely knows the boy's past, he knows the family, and yet
it's all too easy to forget all that and condemn someone.

If only there were more people in the world like the OP, and less knee
jerkers.

~~~
derleth
I hope I'm wrong and that the troll isn't a sociopath.

~~~
datalus
In all honesty, I didn't mean to jump all over your comment, there's plenty of
worse offenders in the thread for that kind of reply.

However, it still stands that we just don't know enough to make any judgement
call. It's in society's hands as it were now anyway, and all the best we can
do is hope for something good to come out of this.

------
ChuckMcM
That is a pretty compelling story. I'm not sure I could let it go without a
bit more narrative around the 'game thing.' It sounds too much like 'making
your bones' in a street gang.

~~~
blauwbilgorgel

      About how he'd become engrossed in conspiracy sites.
    

Anti-semitism is rife on conspiracy sites. I just assumed 'the game' thing was
started on one such conspiracy site. Paranoia, hatred and naivety can be
breeding grounds for these attacks.

I view it less as a street gang game, and more of a game of 'hunt the
Illuminati'. Doesn't make it any less despicable. If anything these conspiracy
sites (and its posters) carry part of the blame for incitement.

------
DanBC
> I responded: "I'm not criminalizing a 17 year old kid and ruining his
> future.

I really hope restorative justice works. Well done for doing something that
must have been incredibly tough.

------
nkurz
I'd love to have an update in a few years. Do things end up better for having
let him off, or does he cause even more damage?

I think it's unlikely that the author was the only person threatened, and also
unlikely that a "talking to" will prevent others from being victims as well.
While I'd like to think that people can make a full turn around from evil to
good, in this case I'd bet against it. If things are as described, the kid is
not a wayward youth but a psychopath.

Certainly from the child's perspective it's better not to involve the
authorities. But my greater concern is for the rest of society. No, there is
nothing magic the authorities can do that will help this individual, but
unlike a counsellor they might be able to restrict his ability to further harm
others.

------
prawn
Do we have to be careful not to brand this sort of behaviour as trolling?
Trolling to me is often mild and more for a laugh rather than for quite
malicious purposes. It's easier to ignore.

Anything that constitutes targeted harassment, stalking, bullying and the like
should always be framed around those stronger terms. They cannot be things
that kids grow up doing for a laugh with friends. They need to be clearly
framed as the sort of things that have repercussions, put you on the flipside
of society, etc.

------
mwhooker
compelling story, but I'd like to know how he translated an ip address in to a
street address.

~~~
sliverstorm
Well, there's a few possibilities. For example, if the ip address was
associated with a DN, you could do a reverse-lookup and then do a whois.

~~~
loboman
Also he might know the friend's ip if the friend sent him an email.

~~~
DanBC
Knowing the IP is the easy bit.

Taking that IP and finding a street address is the tricky bit.

It can be done with court orders. (In England. I have no idea how Ireland does
it.)

~~~
loboman
If he knows the friend ip, he knows that they both match (friend = troll).

~~~
DanBC
Ah yes, sorry. I missed that.

------
Jd
One potentially but as of yet unmentioned aspect is the "game thing" itself.
The fact that he refers to this as a "game," indicates that by means of some
conspiracy theory site or other, he was more or less interacting with others
in competitive harassment.

Take the following potential scenario:

    
    
      Impressionable youth joins conspiracy site, finds lots of anti-semitic information. 
      The youths of the forum are encourage to pick a Jew and harass them, recording both their creations (i.e. a plastic container filled with ashes), and the responses of the person they are harassing.
      Within the context of a game this harassment can immediately seem quite harmless. I am actually not thinking much about the person who is on the receiving end of my "prank" anymore, I am simply thinking of the optimal reaction I can get from my "innovative" creation in the harassment sector. 
    
      Anyways, easy to see how something like this could get out of hand. Very out of hand in this case.

~~~
reledi
My thoughts as well. It was likely too difficult or embarrassing for him to
reveal his true motivations and intentions in front of his family and his
victim. Leo should have dug deeper.

------
kvnn
There is an alarming amount of laziness in the conclusion of this affair. I'm
hoping that significant actions were left out of the post.

Who has the kid been talking to online? What else has he been up to? Who else
is he harassing? How was he going to escalate the "game"?

It seems that the author wanted a peaceful resolution so badly that he
manufactured one falsely.

------
revnja
I hope that The Troll learned something from this experience. It is truly
interesting to me what kind of mental processes drive this kind of behavior.

~~~
ANTSANTS
Let's hope it wasn't "use a proxy."

~~~
dkarl
Or "cry when you get caught."

~~~
hide
No worries, eventually he’ ll darn goof and the cyber police will be there to
take care of the rest ;)

------
knieveltech
I am truly amazing by this post. What an incredible human being the OP is. If
faced with a similar situation I'm quite certain I lack to moral fiber to
conduct myself with that level of class. Odds are excellent I would have
pasted that kids guts all over the street.

~~~
unreal37
Having someone arrested is not "lack of moral fiber". It may be the opposite -
the courage to bring a criminal to justice, testify against them, potentially
lose his friendship... What the 17-year old did was vicious and clearly
criminal.

~~~
jessedhillon
Courage, as a word, stems from _cor_ \-- one's heart and innermost feelings,
and so courageousness is the resolve to express one's heart.

Therefore, it is _literally_ more courageous to confront an attacker directly
and to express one's feelings honestly, than it is to run to the authorities,
even when one is entitled to do so. It's more courageous to confront someone
face-to-face, tell him how you were hurt by what they did, and communicate
that you still care about him and want to be involved with his correction.

To say that "it may be the opposite..." _i.e._ it may be cowardly to directly
confront someone who hurt and frightened you, is just bizarre and I suspect
reactionary tough-guy talk. In what world would it be cowardly to confront and
attacker and show both your vulnerability and your determination to work with
him, but courageous (in any sense of the word) to send the police over to his
house to pick him up?

------
clintboxe
Here's a funnier take on confronting an internet troll. Comedian Chris Gethard
talks to a commenter who really didn't like his performance in the show "Big
Lake."

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s10F4ulkLY>

------
Millennium
If you've ever seen very young puppies playing, you know that it's not as cute
as it sounds. There's yelping and pain, and often even blood as the puppies
bite one another mercilessly. But as the days and weeks pass, that stops; by
being bitten, the puppies learn that biting hurts. It takes a little while,
and is perhaps not the most pleasant of methods, but it's what their minds can
process.

Some people are the same way. It's a cruel thing to force a bully (or its net-
cousin, the troll) to look in the mirror and see what they've really done;
what they really are. It messes with a person's head in a way that those who
haven't experienced it cannot understand. But many of them legitimately NEED
that kind of cruelty; it's the language they speak, the stimulus they know how
to sense.

It's still cruel, mind you; it shouldn't be shied away from, but it shouldn't
be glorified or looked forward to either. Sometimes it's not even possible,
especially in the age of the Internet. But when it can be done, I'd call it
preferable to bringing in the authorities. It's less wasteful, on account of
not throwing up lifelong obstacles for the troll to overcome, and when
properly applied it hurts worse than the law would allow our authorities to
inflict anyway. Justice and vengeance, all wrapped up in a nice, neat package.

------
BklynJay
It's disturbing how terrifying and malicious this suburban 17-year old kid
could be.

------
voldemort12
Am I the only one who feels like this story is hugely, hugely embellished? It
is just too picture perfect. And absolutely none of the comments herein seem
to question any aspect of it whatsoever. It is straight-up revenge-porn. My
bet is that certain aspects of this actually happened, but things just don't
happen this smoothly in real life.

------
Kelliot
Pains me to see this kinda stuff go on...

Troll doesn't quite cover it in my eye, its pure criminalized harassment.

------
AgathaTheWitch
I would have prosecuted the little shit.

~~~
adrianwaj
Deliberate and targeted anti-semitism, stalking, death threats that moved
offline from a 17 year old who says "thanks for giving me a break dude" and
parents who don't want to go to the police themselves? All Leo wants to do is
write about it.. I would've either prosecuted or put his name and photo (and
all the threats and screenshots he sent) on my blog for 10 years.. that
could've been the choice for the parents.

~~~
Tichy
This story is all about empathy...

~~~
adrianwaj
No it's about pacifism.

------
tylermenezes
I'm honestly astonished at how little Twitter seems to care about abuse and
spam. I actually wrote an article about this last night
([https://tyler.menez.es/articles/twitters-empathy-
problem.htm...](https://tyler.menez.es/articles/twitters-empathy-
problem.html)), when - after going through blog posts - I realized the spam
problem there hadn't gotten any better since I first wrote about it in _2007_!

~~~
forensic
Seems like a hard problem to solve.

------
autophil
I'm very sorry you went through that. I actually couldn't finish reading it -
too unsettling. I hope you and yours are okay and this is behind you.

~~~
dkokelley
If it helps, it has a restorative ending. I would recommend trying to get
trough it knowing how it ends.

------
sneak
That's not a troll, that's just a run-of-the-mill dickhead.

Trolling is a art.

------
FilthyFresh
I do not believe that this is an act by an individual. Even though the author
tracked it down to one attacker, there is something much bigger behind attacks
of this caliber.Right now there is a movement underway, a Troll movement.It
has been around for no longer than a decade, but already it has shown the
signs of a serious problem to come. It's essentially a gang mentality that
ropes these "kids" in to participate in trolling. In the 90's I was lucky
enough to have not grown up in the circumstances that would lead me into
joining a gang. A desire to feel like your a part of something combined with
the desire to feel powerful is a tool for whoever is recruiting these
trolls(mostly older siblings or friends cause them to want to imitate).Just as
these kids,imagine your self put under the wrong(for a successful life)
circumstances at that age,you may have been persuaded into trying new drugs,
or gang banging.

By meddling with the lives of others, one can get a feeling of true power.
This feeling of power when combined with the comradeship of fellow trolls can
be a very dangerous mix. Gangs recruit new members by playing on both those
desires, first they are given a gun (they are now powerful, They hold the
power over human life in their hands), next they are given comradeship (a
feeling of belonging, they are now a part of something). At the age of 17,
these kids, placed under the right(to this way of life) circumstances are
soooooo susceptible to the gang mentality. The gang mentality is present
everywhere you look, its just at different levels of activity. Give a kid a
bat or ball, surround him with teammates, and give him something to do;
Compares with giving a kid a computer, surrounding him with fellow trolls, and
something to do (harassing and cyber attacking);Now lets throw in actual
street gangs for a third level of comparison with the past. Give a kid a gun,
surround him with fellow gang members, and something to do. Although baseball
has stayed offline and in the ballpark to this day; The street gangs have
moved online in the form of a 17 year old kid with a computer.

This is only a preview of whats to come. Imagine second generation trolls.
These kids have had access to a computer, ipad, laptop, cell phone, since they
were truly children(3-12). These trolls can hack,they are tech savvy, they can
find your address, access all your online resources. They now have the power
over a human life. Unlike street gangs of the 90's, the internet has allowed
them to be apart of something big, bigger than any street gang has ever had
the opportunity to reach. Where a gang was always limited by location,
Trolling is only limited by language. A troll hierarchy has formed in several
different hives. Troll soldiers are dispatched in the thousands, maybe even
millions, in strategically placed cyber attacks. Worse these troll soldiers,
at the easily corruptible age of 17, will have the mentality of an
anarchist,ego of a street banger, and posses the technical ability of a
hacker. Where a banger would steal and old ladies purse, they will get into
her bank account. Where a banger would shoot someone for initiation, these
trolls would attack every online outlet you use, ruin your name and image.
Even worse, for the most part they need not be money motivated, their parents
are paying the cable bill.And since this would for the most part be completely
anonymous, they wouldn't have to watch as they shoot you in the face just as a
street banger has to. They wont feel the blood splash their face as your life
crumbles beneath you.

I can only hope measures are taken against the Trolls fast. It is not a hacker
mentality they posses, but that of an anarchist and street banger.Those in
power at the time it becomes apparent, will, as with every other threat to
humanity, not act until it is too late.These kids do this because there is a
lack of communication from the ones who raise them, they need attention,
advice,something to do (baseball?). The authorities cant fix this, further
separating the parents from the kids will only strengthen the bonds of the
trolls. Who do you think they will go to after their parents have further
distanced themselves from their kid by sending him off to juvy? Their friends
who were a part of their bad way of life? The gang?

------
blerrrgh
17 is OLD. This is a high school kid, and maybe he's immature, but he crossed
a very serious line. The line between prank phone calls, and the types of
coercive intimidation tactics he employed shouldn't be glossed over.

One other comment about this anecdote: I've said it before, and I'll say it
again. Revealing your true identity online, on the internet can be very, VERY
risky. Downright dangerous. The fact that Google+ and Facebook encourage this
as a normal, casual practice is irresponsible.

The internet is high-powered super-charged tachnology, which needs to be
respected as such. It's not like putting your name in the phone book. VIPs who
retain attourneys, hire personal assistants, and hire other staff (possibly
even professional security) have adequate countermeasure to cope with online
stalkers. Average individuals do not.

Consider that in ye olden days, predating even dial-up, there were notorious
problems with local TV stations who would hire pretty women as their
meteorologists. These were professional broadcasters that had problems with
public exposure.

Craigslist has a firm understanding of some of the cold realities of the
internet, in particular, prostitution, and they advise their users with very
little whitewash. Twitter, Facebook and Google+ should do the same.

------
freework
Theres something about this story that just doesn't sit right with me. Why
would a 17 year old go through so much trouble to harass someone just for the
heck of it? The guy had to have done something to the kid. Normal people don't
spend hours of their lives to harass a single person for no reason.

I call bullshit.

~~~
LordIllidan
The son had become engrossed with conspiracy sites - the ones that blame
jews/zionists/everyone for all the ills on the planet, and was a shutin,
unable to attach a human face with the victim of his trolling attempts.

I admire the author for his actions, I hope the Troll will take a good lesson
from it all.

