

Apple and Valve: Could frenemies really team up? - rmah
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57414912-37/apple-and-valve-could-frenemies-really-team-up/

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pinaceae
I think iOS is (again) the game changer here.

The iPad is making serious inroads as a gaming platform, and not just for
casual games. The recent release of Max Payne for iPad shows how fast this
platform is evolving.

Valve is not present on iOS, and under current app store rules cannot expand
their portfolio easily there. Now, talks between Apple and Valve might just
solve this conundrum.

Where does a potential Apple console come into play? Why do you need one at
all?

Take Apple TV and Airplay. Extend the iPad game to the TV. Already possible.
Only thing that sucks is controllers - if you could use a classic controller
(via Bluetooth) with that iPad/aTV setup you suddenly have a pretty powerful
console, and a portable one too.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
Airplay as-is isn't really suitable for gaming. It's impressive, but even
under best network conditions you still have to deal with a mild amount of
lag. The ideal solution would be to run games on the Apple TV itself
(relatively simple, given that the aTV is effectively a headless iPad 2);
using the iPad as a glorified controller.

~~~
mitchty
Yep completely agree, I've never been able to get airplay working well over
wifi. The round trip time means you've about ~0.8 seconds of latency between
what you see and what is on the native display.

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tzaman
I hope not, Valve is doing just fine without Apple.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
Now yes, but Apple's put them in a tricky position for the future. Thanks to
the influence of iOS, Steam will be in a rather tight spot once Windows 8
rolls out (as the WinStore will be the primary source for games by default;
exclusive on ARM); the presence of the App Store on OSX isn't doing them any
favors either.

On the flip side, if Apple wants to take the consoles head-on (a fairly safe
assumption), they're going to need strong console-level games. Partnering with
Valve puts them on mostly equal footing with Microsoft and Sony in terms of
publisher relationships, as well as a few headliner exclusives.

~~~
tzaman
you are right, the position is tricky, but I think partnering with Apple is
the easy way out for Valve (and they'll probably loose their identity in the
long run - probably not a bad thing, but still).

They have a nice user base and if they'll adapt to WinStore coming out with
proper counter-measures and marketing approaches (and maybe some new ideas), I
think there's nothing they should be afraid of.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
How doe you expect Steam to "adapt" to being near-totally shut out of their
primary market? Steamworks is a moot point when Win8/MountainLion comes with
Xbox Live/Game Center integration as a selling point. Like it or not, Steam's
days as-is are numbered and Valve needs a new platform. Could be Apple, could
be their own but they have to do something if they want a chance of surviving.

~~~
tzaman
Let me answer that with a question:

How was Dropbox able to "survive" when Apple has their cloud (and I'm sure
Windows will feature something similar as well)? If I remember correctly,
Apple wanted to buy them and they said no.

The bottom line, it can be done. Others have proven it.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
iCloud (and SkyDrive, Microsoft's equivalent) is capable of co-existing on
your system with Dropbox. Dropbox even has features that iCloud lacks (files
aren't limited to a single app, proper cross-platform support, photo archival,
etc.)

Windows Store, by design, removes the ability for Steam to function. It's
technically possible to run Steam on Win8-x86, but constrained to the "legacy"
desktop and denied integration of any kind with Metro. They'll be shut out
completely with ARM. Their momentum will carry them for a while, but provided
Metro isn't a massive failure Steam's current business model will be unviable
within 5 years of Win8's launch. If they are to survive, Valve /must/ get off
the PC.

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stiletto
> Until the growth and success of games on the iOS platform, Apple and gaming
> were just two words that did not go together

This glosses over a major turning point in gaming history. Bungie debuted Halo
at MACWORLD in January 2000:
[http://www.macobserver.com/news/00/january/000104/bungiemov....](http://www.macobserver.com/news/00/january/000104/bungiemov.shtml)

Six months later, Bungie was purchased by Microsoft. The most relevant
consequence of that deal was that Halo, a major turning point in gaming
evolution, was on Microsoft's new console: Xbox.

Edit: forgot to make the obvious point. Mac was on the verge of becoming very
relevant to gaming over a decade ago, and Microsoft stole that thunder for
their entrance to the console races.

~~~
talmand
My memory of that is that Apple had their shot and passed. Apple chose the
wrong direction in that turning point.

The amount of Halo's importance to gaming history is a debate for another
time.

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rmah
Perhaps there is going to be an Apple gaming console with Valve or perhaps
they are expanding Apple TV to include it?

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nirvana
I think Apple should buy Valve. Valve may not be for sale. But Valve's
creativity is off the charts- they make great games. Apple, on the other hand,
knows how to deliver quality software, something valve has not mastered.

Steam is "great" in the sense that it was the first and its so far the most
reasonable game store, but it is terrible in terms of bugs and performance[1].
Valves games are often unstable[2]. Game developers just seem to have a much
higher tolerance for bugs (or an environment where the publisher makes them
ship and then the teams disband so there's nobody there to fix the bugs.)

At this point, I'd much rather buy a game thru the Mac App Store than thru
steam.

I don't think that Valve is for sale, but they'd make a great independant
division within Apple.

You want a wearable computer? Well, here's the best hardware company in the
world.

[1] Just so people know what I'm talking about. Often when launching Team
Fortress Steam will throw up a dialog "Preparing to launch Team Fortress 2",
that stays there from 60seconds to 7 minutes. This occurs without regard to
the quality of the internet connection (have seen it both on 5megabits with
high latency and 40 megabits with low latency) During this period the TF2
executable has not yet been launched, and steam is apparently doing nothing at
all. Then of course TF2 takes quiet awhile to get to the point where its ready
to play.

[2] Not so much with games like Portal 2 which are done and not constantly
revisited, but TF2 crashes regularly, sometimes there are releases that are
completely unplayable on macs, and you just have to wait til the next patch.
Steam itself crashes, is interminably slow (When really its mostly web pages,
couldn't they have at least used webkit?) regularly wedges itself, and can't
seem to download and install games to reliably. (usually it works but the rate
of failure is way too high.)

~~~
jiggy2011
I think Apple buying Valve would make me cry into my beer.

Both are great creative companies sure but I think they work best
independently. Apple makes hardware/software , Valve makes games.

Having HL3 as a Mac Only title and being primarily sold in order to make
people buy new Mac hardware? No Thanks. Also Valve have a history of
supporting modding etc and providing tools, not so sure if Apple would
continue this. Some of the best things about Valve games have been 3rd party
mods (think Counterstrike).

I do agree however that in many areas the Steam software leaves a lot to be
desired.

~~~
Synaesthesia
I think the odds of it are close to 0, so don't worry.

