

Ask HN: Everyone loves my startup concept, why is no one using it? - m4nu
https://nota.io

======
ColinWright
OK, I've gone to your page and had a look ...

    
    
        Nota features an innovative toolbar
        to help you get the job done
    

What job?

    
    
        Area Selection Tool: Lets you highlight any part of
            a web page. And best of all it takes a screen
            capture of the selection!
    

For what?

    
    
        Text Highlighter Tool: Shows copy changes and catches
            typos in text heavy pages. (Yeah, we're looking at
            you "Terms of Use" pages.)
    

What?

    
    
        Take the guesswork out of web development, with Nota.
        Nota records every click, scroll, and keystroke, giving
        you the clues you need to efﬁciently understand and
        repair user issues.
    

WHY?

the thing you're missing in all of this is the question of what problem you're
solving. I assume you're solving a problem, but:

* How do I know I have your problem?

* How do I even know it's a problem to start with?

* What _is_ the problem?

* What is the context?

* Who is your audience?

In short, based on my visit to your landing page, I have no idea what problem
this product is solving.

So I left.

Does that help?

~~~
m4nu
Thanks for that. This landing page can sure be optimised quite a bit. Though
as today the main problem is not so much converting users from landing page to
sign-up but rather getting current beta users (that do not complain in any
sort about the app) to actually try it in they day to day workflow. I am
striving for feedback, and if no one use the app I can't get any.

~~~
arethuza
"if no one use the app I can't get any"

I did sign up and was left puzzled by what to do next - I wanted to try the
functionality but the only example I could see was to send feedback to you,
and I couldn't see the tools mentioned on the home page.

I suspect nobody can work out how to get started with your product!

~~~
m4nu
That is strange. There should a sample project called "tutorial project" right
on the page you land on after your first registration. Did you try to give the
page a refresh ?

------
patio11
I would have left you this feedback live on your site, but no widget there,
which I feel is a missed opportunity.

Anyhow.

Talk about how _web designers_ in specifically should be using this rather
than getting their feedback over email with non-descriptive explanations like
"I feel the paragraph was overshadowed by the icon." "What icon?" "The green
one." "On what page?" "The home page." "Oh yay after 3 emails I finally
understand what you meant!"

Get Beta Access doesn't read as a button.

The hero shot is a lovely photo and I don't want to crush your soul about it,
but it sells a lifestyle of working on Macbooks in hipster cafes, not your
software. It is impossible to tell, at that point in the sales process, that
the fake website which gets 100% of the screen-within-a-screen real estate is
not actually the point of the shot, but rather, the UI that gets 10% of the
screen-within-a-screen real estate is the point. That UI is unreadable to me,
both literally and figuratively. Your animated explanation later on the page
is superior in explaining what your software actually does.

You should probably sell this face-to-face to designers at meetups/etc. Give
away two dozen beta accounts to actual people in real life, with that crazy
founder gleam in your eyes. If they don't use it, pester them about why.
Answer the objections in onboarding -- e.g. don't have a website that I need
feedback on right now, didn't get the snippet installed, etc.

~~~
loceng
Indeed, if you're not even using your product yourself - showcasing it front
and centre, then why would I want to use it? Including it would be the perfect
demo opportunity.

------
beat
Don't market to "everyone". Market to a very narrow, carefully defined market.
And it doesn't matter if they "love" it. What matters is that they _need_ it,
and need it enough to pay.

Who are you seeking for beta customers? How are you reaching and inviting
them? What kind of feedback are you getting from them?

~~~
m4nu
My target market is small (2~10 employees) web agencies. I worked for such
companies and build that app to address the pains they have with the feedback
loop. So far I have mostly been doing cold mailing to very targeted market and
made some promotion through listing site (betalist, reddit). I had about 300
users out of this. The type of feedback I got so far sounds like: "Great app
will save me lot of time!!" yet after 1 month since the launch I have 2
"active" users.

~~~
sdernley
Have you spoke to those users that stopped using the site. Seems like they're
you're biggest chance to find what's wrong. You can get as many users as you
want, but if you can't keep hold of them then you'll still have problems.

Find out why they started, then find out why they stopped. Maybe it wasn't
right for them in the first place, in which case you can focus on the people
it is right for. Maybe there's something they thought it had which it doesn't,
it might be worth adding that in if it's consistent for everyone. Good luck!

~~~
twunde
I've seen several strategies like this to improve startups/sideprojects Keep
statistics on people who have: signed up but not set up your product <\-
Contact these to see if they need help setting up signed up and set up your
product but stopped using it <-Contact these to find out what's wrong with
your product

The best way to do this is to send a personal email to the users. You should
be able to get some real feedback and if you're responsive to their
suggestions get some customers for life

~~~
m4nu
Thanks, as mentioned above I am trying this but not getting so much success
with it so far. I probably need to crunch bigger numbers to get significant
results.

------
johnyzee
The problem is, nobody wants to be the evil guy that rips another guy's dream
to shreds. That's why, when asked directly, people will always say that your
thing is a cool idea, looks great, etc.

It is said that entrepreneurs need to develop hard skin. I propose that this
hard skin should extend to ignoring this kind of vapid feedback. Because with
our typical starry-eyed optimism (/ denial), we often see these as validation,
when they're really not.

One thing I've learned is also to always listen to the 'assholes', you know
the guys who tell you that your thing sucks, looks like shit and so on. They
are often valuable resources because at least they are being honest - if you
engage them and try to get them to flesh out their criticism. Some of the best
feedback I have ever gotten was this way.

~~~
m4nu
Well I thought about that. Tho I am getting spontaneous feedback from people
telling they love the app. Actually the few I've asked feedback to, more often
than not don't answer..

I am Ok with dismissing the idea or pivoting if I have too, but I can't do
that without understanding what went wrong.

------
arethuza
Some random comments:

"Feedback right on the site"

This made me wonder what site you were referring to - maybe "Feedback right on
your site".

"The Right Tool for the Job"

By this point I still wasn't sure what "the Job" was...

Also, having a product that collects feedback on web pages that doesn't
immediately allow me to play with the tools is a bit frustrating - I won't
sign up just to play with a text selection/highlighting tool even if it is
pretty cool.

~~~
diminish
>> This made me wonder what site you were referring to - maybe "Feedback right
on your site".

Or maybe more dummy-proof; "Do you run a web site? Get feedback right on your
site"

>> Also, having a product that collects feedback on web pages that doesn't
immediately allow me to play with the tools is a bit frustrating

And why doesn't this site itself use this tool to get feedback? That could be
also a nice demonstration.

Finally, I scrolled thrice, and didn't really get what the tool is about.
Maybe the site has a communication problem, which prevents conversions...

------
easytiger
Scrolled through it, no idea what it does.

~~~
csmattryder
+1 for this. Here's my thoughts while browsing it:

I scrolled down, and to be honest if you hadn't mentioned feedback at the top,
I would've thought "web design collab tool", with the area/text highlighting.

Oh hey, you follow with that impression too.

> Take the guesswork out of web development

So I'm to be developing a website, I guess with other people, so it is a
collab tool (thats the feedback)? Ok.

It hooks into Github? How? Why? Eh, lived 22 years without it, probably don't
need it.

------
mushishi
I wanted to give you feedback that there is no feedback mechanism on the right
side of the page but ironically you don't give the user opportunity to apply
your product to your own site.

~~~
m4nu
Yes, unfortunately a "public" version of the widget would mean a serious
refactor (which is btw on the list of potential pivots).

------
untog
You appear to have a feedback tool that allows users to select part of the
page. That isn't clear, but...

You've made a website feedback tool that allows users to tell the site owner
what they think is bad about the site. _Why aren 't you using it for this
thread?_

------
illumen
What is this? What pain does it stop?

I can't tell from the domain name, or from the website 'above the fold'. Even
scrolling down, I'm still not sure what it does.

Also, you have no signup at the moment?

------
NicoJuicy
Just my 2 cents:

When you go live, identify your client group (at first sight, it's agencies
and freelancers)

\- Create a seperate button for agencies and freelanciers Agencies, signup
here, freelancers: signup here.

\- Create different pricing to match the client group

\- Create a "use-it now" script, eg. a editable-text that they can copy and
copy paste it in a website. Give it a trial account (or beta).

\- Sell to your target groups, i think you can do something with this, but you
really need specific group targeting.

\- Change the button: Get early feedback into the register texts and buttons:
Register for free here (input: Name & Email) -> Button: Register

\- Change some text: Collect feedback on your site... Try targetting web
designers (who hate the overuse of mail for adjusting to the clients
preference -> put this as a section on the front page). Example for a section:
Optimize your website feedback (collect early client feedback)

It's not immediatly clear what it does, it summorizes the tools, not the goal
itselve (eliminating email by a better workflow for receiving client feedback
for example).

And last but not least, marketing marketing marketing :)

~~~
m4nu
Gotcha. Thanks for that. Apparently my landing page is due for a re-design
asap..

------
kybernetyk
What does your site/product do? The first thing I read is something about a
toolbar ... a toolbar for what? :)

~~~
m4nu
I guess the smallest version of it is: sticky notes on a live website to ease
the web developer / client feedback exchange process.

~~~
patio11
That is _radically better copy_ than anything you have on your website right
now. It is instantly clear who the intended user is, what pain it purports to
solve, and what the core workflow will be like. (It is often the case, by the
way, that founders describe their stuff better when speaking informally than
they do on their home pages.)

------
bennesvig
Update the headline - "FEEDBACK RIGHT ON THE SITE"

Leave feedback? Receive feedback? So I can do what?

On the subhead - What does taking the guesswork out of the feedback loop
actually mean? What will I be able to do once I take the guesswork out of the
feedback loop? Make better design decisions?

A lot of the copy is too vague to be helpful.

"THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB"

What job? What are the pain points your tool helps alleviate? From the site,
I'm guessing it's to find out the specific elements that are stopping visitors
from converting or further engaging with the site? Poor design is expensive. A
lot of people know what people do on a website, not lot of people understand
why they do it. Sell up your solution as solving for the "why."

------
kriro
From browsing the comments it seems like you mostly rely on online feedback
from the betatesters. I think you need to move one step back. You have
identified a pain point (from your own experience) and a way to solve it but
are you really sure you're targeting the right people and the pain is big
enough?

I think you should find some people that you think have the identified
problem, see if/how they solve it and meet them in person to demonstrate your
cure. It's costly (time/travel) but I think it'll clear up a lot of things.
You can learn A TON from this. Seriously find ~20 people and meet them in real
life.

------
donkeyd
I've seen a stratup take beta user metrics and offer their most active users
the first year free. If you give out 10 free years of service to your most
active users and promoters this might actually give them the motivation to
start using the product.

Also, once they've used the product for a year they probably won't stop when
they have to start paying and by then they've given you the feedback you need.
They might also give you some quotes to put on the front page to show how
happy your existing customers are.

~~~
m4nu
Well I'd give life long use to the right beta users willing to give me serious
feedback. It's the very least I could do. I am currently trying that approach
with cold mailing but not getting a whole lot of attention with that (actually
none at all)

~~~
donkeyd
Try changing the message or try a cold-call, give you the chance to get
instant feedback on why people don't use the product.

------
neilellis
Looks like a great feedback widget like
[http://bugherd.com/](http://bugherd.com/) to me

Be patient and

KEEP AT IT: listen, learn, fix - repeat

I found this helpful - [http://www.appsumo.com/copywriting-checklist-
special/](http://www.appsumo.com/copywriting-checklist-special/) \- simple,
concise and well explained guide to website copy.

Good luck, work, listen, learn and be patient :-)

Oh and take HN with a pinch of salt :-)

~~~
m4nu
It addresses the same issue but with a completely different approach.

Thanks for the perspective. I will keep at it. Cheers

------
sdernley
It's been mentioned several times but I think the main thing is telling what
problem you're solving, as early as possible.

Also, your sign in looks like a modal, but it isn't. Confused me a little bit
when i wanted to go back and almost made me stop completely. Probably just me,
but might be worth a look.

Try asking the people that love the concept what they think of your sales
site. Maybe you explained something to them which caught their attention that
you're not saying on the site.

------
zeratul
You might be onto something. Could this be easily converted into an annotation
tool for machine learning purposes? It looks like you could use it to annotate
images and text. You need an interface to create annotation schema. Then, you
need to have two or more annotators per text/image. And finally, you calculate
inter-annotator agreement and export the data.

I know that there are couple startups that got seed money for "annotating the
web". For example "Rap Genius".

------
n0body
these things piss me off, i click on it, and it doesn't say what it is or why
i want it.

it should be right there at the top "nota - it's bacon for your computer" or
whatever. instead i'm supposed to scroll and look at pictures and i still
don't get it. looks to me like more effort was put into making a fancy design
rather than an actual product, because if it was a product it'd be obvious
what it was.

that would be problem 1 i suppose.

~~~
m4nu
Got it, shitty landing page. Fair enough.

------
wiseleo
I understood your site because I use screenshot browser extensions frequently.

Most people have no idea such tools exist. You are asking them to envision a
concept that they never imagined is possible today.

Your animated graphic is clear to me, but it's not explicit enough.

You also appear to include features of tools like Clicktale, which is
interesting and not prominent enough.

I agree that this tool must be live on your own site. :)

------
vbrendel
Take any notion of "beta" off your site. You want people to sign up thinking
it's production ready and start test and improving your funnel based on a
trickle feed of new visitors. Use A/B testing and talk to people that leave
their details on why they did or did not use it and improve accordingly.

Watch this video for background:
[http://vimeo.com/54118238](http://vimeo.com/54118238)

~~~
m4nu
Thanks, good point. That is the next step.

------
alttab
Unlike others, I understood the problem.

Your true problem is unless this web agency is cranking out landing pages for
a living - your customer will probably spend more time getting your tool
integrated than working with it. And they cease to become a customer when the
project is over.

There is value in this, but besides maybe some server hosting, what are you
doing that can't be accomplished with an open source JS package?

~~~
m4nu
Well there is a whole bunch of value that goes with this. Event tracking,
rendering of pretty damn accurate "screen grabs", reproducing of the
environment.

I think you made a good point about the typical project live spam and I might
be reason why people can not get to use the tool righ away. I personally see
that tool being very useful for "intra team" communication as well.

~~~
alttab
The next use you described came from yourself. The rest of the thread is
emerging with a consistent theme, "what are your customers saying?"

~~~
m4nu
Yep I got that much out of it. So far I was not really lucky communicating
with them. Will push further down that path. Thanks for the input.

------
jbranchaud
Does this only work on static pages or is there a way to annotate dynamic
pages as well?

While I don't disagree with a lot of the feedback about better communicating
certain things on the page, I thought I would say that I understood
immediately what your does. That's to say, I think others are being a bit
hyperbolic when they say they have no idea even after scrolling.

~~~
m4nu
Thanks. I know the landing page could be a lot better tho, but I do think that
people with the pain the address do get how Nota could help out form the
landing page.

Yep it'll work on static sites just as well.

------
regoldste
To echo the feedback others have provided: your website makes it a challenge
to understand what your product does.

Being obtuse about the point of your product is not an effective strategy
unless you are in stealth mode and you have a simple landing page just to drum
up intrigue.

I would clarify the problem and why your product's features supply the best
answer.

------
shankysingh
I would love to such frank feedback on my startup. I am going same phase,
everyone loves the idea but nobody seems to use it. Probably because either
they are not actually convinced and are faking it or I am not solving any
urgent "pain point" they have.

Thanks @m4nu, for this post, signed-up for Nota.io and checking it out

~~~
m4nu
Thanks Shankysingh. Looking forward to see you there. Don't hesitate to get in
touch if you need assistance. Good luck with the startup.

------
rjbwork
Maybe people you've explained it to love the concept, but I have no idea what
your product does after scrolling through your your bootstrap page. I THINK
you capture events to help analyze visitor patterns better, while helping to
solve some common mistakes like mistyped words and such, but I really have no
idea.

------
DavidPP
I'm using bugherd and would like to have the feedback part only as I don't
need the bug tracking part (already using another tool for that).

So I'm definitively in your potential client list, but no demo on your website
mean that I would probably have skipped it completely without creating an
account.

~~~
m4nu
Oh well I would love to hear feedback from you. As mentioned somewhere else in
that bunch of comment I am more than willing to give away long term free use
for any one willing to give this a serious try and share the experience with
me.

The registration process is very small (basically one more field than a sign-
in) and you can delete your account anytime if you are not satisfied. Once
logged in you will see a tutorial that highlights the main features of Nota in
under a minutes.

Will work on a screen cast of the app first very soon.

Thanks for sharing

------
iliasfl
Isn't JIRA Capture by Atlassian pretty much the same? Probably with better
integration with JIRA, which you recommend in your page for issue tracking...
[https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/capture](https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/capture)

------
baliex
Hey, had no idea what it did.. signed up anyway and it's something I can see
myself using. Kudos to you. One slight niggle so far.. there's a typo in your
confirm email. "glad to have you abroad" should be "glad to have you aboard".

~~~
m4nu
Thanks that. 300+ welcome email and you are the first who got that one !

------
penguat
1) What does it do?

2) It's not on your site. Where can I see it in action on all sides? what does
the widget look like?

3) will it even work in my local development environment?

4) what does it cost? Can I persuade my manager to buy it?

~~~
m4nu
1- Let everyone involved in the site creation (Clients, PM, devs ) communicate
right on the live site by using "sticky note" 2- It can't be use on a public
site without major refactor 3- Yes it will. I have a "Mirror" feature plan so
that you can even mirror issue from "stage" site to you dev 4- Still unknown
yet. Probably will have a free plan with some restriction, but the "small
agency" tier would be around 29/mo

~~~
penguat
With 3, it complained that it didn't find the widget on my development site -
which left me really confused.

A production-capable version would be extremely useful to our team, even with
minimal feedback - we're in a public beta of a new version of our site, and
we're using A/B tools which would allow us to get that sort of feedback from a
number of our users without being overwhelmed.

We might only want to use it for 4 months, while a beta runs. A one-off
payment of up to £100 (GBP) would be reasonably easy, if we chose to use it.

What's keeping it from production?

~~~
m4nu
Could you send me a ticket via UserVoice (bottom right corner) so that I can
have you user ID and have a look at what might be wrong?

Nothing is really keeping it to be pushed to production. I was just hopping to
get more feedback before proceeding to that step.

Thanks for the input.

------
glimmung
The tutorial project that you get to once you sign up - or maybe a video of it
- needs to be front and centre _before_ the sign-up.

I wasn't clear before I got to that, but now I've seen that I'm motivated to
dig deeper...

~~~
m4nu
Cool, thanks. That is helpful.

------
obvious_throw
Probably because your site gives absolutely no indication of what it is you
actually do.

------
bitJericho
No price listed. I usually don't sign up to anything unless the price is
listed.

~~~
m4nu
Faire enough. I didn't list prices because I was not sure but now I understand
some prices (even if inaccurate) are better than non at all. I am thinking: 1
Active Project + 1 Archived Project, Unlimited users 9USD/mo 3 Active Project
+ 2 Archived Project, Unlimited users 19USD/mo 5 Active Project + 3 Archived
Project, Unlimited users 29USD/mo

~~~
bitJericho
Well it depends on your use cases. As a general rule of thumb, if you don't
publish prices it means it's too expensive for the common man (eg, it's aimed
at businesses).

I can't really see any small time indie (I could be very wrong I've looked at
your project a total of 5 minutes tops) using this. 20/30 dollars seems really
low if you're only going to get a small amount of customers.

I'd read up on this thread posted here on HN just a few days ago, there's an
incredible amount of info here:

[http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-
tarsnap/](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/)

------
mbrzuzy
Is there a way to allow clients to create annotations on a project without
creating an account? Maybe through a private URL?

From poking around I didn't see a way to do that. Without that I wouldn't
really use it.

------
jdennaho
You told me what features it has not why I would want it. Give me a value
proposition. Also put the pricing on the front page and offer more than one
option, 3 would be good.

------
bengillies
It seems like you've thought about the experience for end users, but I can't
see a way to actually try it out (from an end user perspective) from your
homepage.

------
penetrarthur
I still have no idea what your product does. Make at least a video(2-3
minutes) that defines the problem and shows how it is solved using your
software.

------
spountzy
Had a look at your site - Nice design, but quite bad "communication". Not
getting what nota really is about and why I should use it.

~~~
m4nu
Thank you. Will work on improving that.

------
daemonk
No idea what problem you are trying to solve.

------
RamunasM
How is this different from TrackDuck?

~~~
m4nu
Never heard of it. Googled it, their certificate is broken and it seems to be
fetching stuff from fishy domains name. I stopped there. If you used trackDuck
tho I'd love to hear your feedback about how/if it differs.

~~~
shauchenka
Hi! I am a CDO at TrackDuck. Very strange problem, what browser/os you use?
From what domain you got ssl alert?

------
virgilkf
You use Ask HN to post a link, smart.

~~~
m4nu
No trickery intended here, just seemed to be the best way to go about it.

