
Leaving Google Fi - daigoba66
https://jasonatwood.io/archives/1881
======
mabbo
This is the difference between Google and Amazon.

People have lots of criticism of Amazon, some I even agree with, but working
here[0] one of my favorite little cultural things is that customers can and do
email Jeff when stupid things happen. And Jeff reads them. Every now and then
he'll forward one of them to a senior VP with a simple "?" added to it.[1]

That question mark indicates two things: that you have 24 hours to explain how
this terrible customer experience happened, and that not long afterwards you'd
better have a plan for how it isn't possible for this kind of problem to
happen again. A lot of incredible changes have been made based on those
question marks.

Google does not have such a customer-obsessed culture. So bad things like this
happen and then nothing seems to change. Next week, it will happen again.
Because (in my view) Google is an ideas-first culture, not a customer-first
culture. Those ideas have rocketed them to success but I wonder if it can
sustain them indefinitely.

[0](All my views are obviously my own and don't reflect speaking on behalf of
the company)

[1][https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/customer-service-jeff-
bez...](https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/customer-service-jeff-bezos-
question-mark-rule.html)

~~~
ikeboy
Having been through several Jeff escalations on the seller side of things, the
reality is very different from the romanticized version in the public mind.

Maybe it worked that way a decade ago when the volume was lower. Now sending a
Jeff message just goes to a specialized team that's only slightly more
competent than whoever would otherwise handle the issue. Have had several
times where no resolution was given at all.

~~~
hueving
The seller is not the customer.

~~~
sbr464
Typically i’d agree, but aren’t they a customer if they are purchasing
fulfillment services from Amazon (and paying platform fees)?

I think the digital/sharing/on demand/fulfillment economy needs new
definitions for these concepts.

~~~
winningcontinue
Look at their budget. Most of their revenue comes from AWS. So their large AWS
clients are their customers. The margins on the retailing e-commerce customers
is slim and wasn't profitable on a cashflow basis until recent years. From a
financial perspective, they're the people who are going to stock the items and
take the risk for products where demand is uncertain. Once more data is
collected about their sales, Amazon will use their scale to undercut their
e-commerce selling partners. So they are important to their company logistics,
just not to the bottom line.

~~~
criley2
I just want to point out how ridiculous it is to think that AWS > Selling
stuff out of a warehouse in terms of revenue.

Amazon does about $30B a year in selling goods, and about $7B a year in AWS.

AWS does deliver higher profit margins and more operating income than the tiny
margins on selling and shipping goods, so perhaps that's what you meant to
say.

~~~
romtx
It's not ridiculous. Amazon retail operates on very thin margins. AWS does
+$7B a _quarter_ , $25.7B for 2018.

Sources: [https://qz.com/1539546/amazon-web-services-brought-in-
more-m...](https://qz.com/1539546/amazon-web-services-brought-in-more-money-
than-mcdonalds-in-2018/) [https://www.zdnet.com/article/in-2018-aws-delivered-
most-of-...](https://www.zdnet.com/article/in-2018-aws-delivered-most-of-
amazons-operating-income/)

~~~
criley2
Did you check your own source?

Because I was using quarterly for both numbers, and their net sales of
merchandise was over $200B (global) in 2018, meaning their net sales were
almost 10X higher on products than AWS. Since it's a 10:1 margin, I continue
to claim that it's ridiculous to think that AWS > selling physical products in
terms of revenue.

In terms of income, however, it's not, they make a lot more on services than
physical goods (as everyone not named Apple does)

------
harry8
This is fraud. As soon as any rep sees the evidence of the fraud and
stonewalls they are engaging in a conspiracy to commit fraud. At that point
the law should take over. "The policy says I must break the law" is not a
defence. "The fraud was opportunistic rather than pre-meditated" is not a
defence. You can't break the law because of a company policy, you're a human
you have responsibilities.

Prosecutions need to happen for this kind of thing. They really do. Start with
the frontline and work your way up the chain, ordering a frontline employee to
commit a crime with a policy document is a crime for all who wrote and
approved the document.

If a google customer engaged in fraud of a similar against google there's no
doubt google have the option of involving the police and getting a
prosecution. A corporation _is_ people who are all responsible for their
actions.

~~~
londons_explore
There is a good chance that Google views the complainant as fraud too... And
that's why they can't talk clearly about what's going on.

Their records show that first phone as delivered. They think their device has
been stolen from them. Then the 'fraudster' tries to get _another_ device sent
to them - which is 'returned' under suspicious circumstances.

All the delays might be a police investigation they aren't allowed to talk
about.

And finally now the 'fraudster' wants a refund of all moneys paid too! Who are
they - they've stolen one phone, tampered with another, and want a full refund
to boot!

~~~
zf00002
But their records wouldn't show the first phone as delivered. And the second
wouldn't show as delivered either if he refused delivery.

~~~
londons_explore
Bet ya they did... Fedex will claim, on investigation, that the package was
delivered and just missed the final scan at the customers door.

~~~
rgbrenner
nope. Packages delivered without a signature can still be lost and the
insurance paid out. How else would they prevent their drivers from stealing
packages?

------
AaronFriel
Google Fi support went down the drain when they expanded. I had a recent
experience with my mother's phone being stolen while she was at a hospital,
here's the summary after it was confirmed missing and police contacted, with a
lot of redundant messages removed.

    
    
        1st chat with agent
    

Me Hi, my mother's phone was stolen, I'm tracking it on find my phone.

Them: Sorry to hear that, we can black list the phone but you must message us
from the member's account

(I am the sole payer on the group plan, paid for the phone, etc.)

Me: Okay, fine, I will contact you from chat on her google account

    
    
        2nd chat with agent:
    

Me: Hi, this is [mom]'s son, I am helping her report her phone stolen to
blacklist it.

Them: Sorry, we cannot blacklist a phone on a group plan if you are not the
primary account holder, please contact us on the primary account.

    
    
       3rd chat with agent:
    

Me: Hi, I'm trying to blacklist a stolen phone, please see [case numbers]

Them: The phone is registered under another Google account

Me: No, see these case numbers, I refuse to end this support until this is
dealt with, I am the primary account holder. Let's blacklist this phone so
that it cannot be used by another carrier.

Them: Our specialist says the phone must be active on Google Fi to blacklist
it.

(The phone's battery has died at this point, 90 miles away from where it was
last)

Me: Does that mean it has already been transferred to a different carrier, or
is it offline?

Them: The specialist says that the phone must be active on Google Fi

Me: What does that mean? Can you ask the specialist if the battery is dead
that means it's not active?

Them: I cannot say.

Me: What is even the point of blacklisting a phone if it doesn't work the
moment someone pops the SIM card out or turns the phone off? Nevermind. I
would like to escalate to a supervisor.

Them: Okay

    
    
        Escalation??
    

Still haven't gotten anywhere since this Thursday, no one has reached out to
me.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
it sounds awful but do you actually have any examples of them being up the
drain before expansion? I ask because I'm one of these cynical about google
support folks.

~~~
AaronFriel
Yes, I've contacted support a few times prior to the expansion and had really
fast, quality experiences each time.

------
busymom0
This isn't just the case at Google Fi. Google's support sucks for their
developers too. The /r/androiddev sub has countless stories of developers
getting account banned and apps removed for vague reasons and then unable to
talk to a real human being on Google's support side. They get canned responses
from their bots.

I can't wait and hope that one day Amazon takes over Google somehow. SO far,
my experiences with Amazon support has been outstanding. If an item doesn't
arrive in the "prime" 1 day shipping window, they immediately ship a new item
right away and gets delivered the next day and simply ask you to return the
item if the first one shows up eventually. They have done this for a knife set
which was over $300 in value and the first item never showed up, so they sent
me another one the next day. Other times when I have contacted Amazon support,
they have been amazing too. If a delivery is late by even a day, they offer me
a month of free prime shipping. And this is simply via chat, not even phone
support.

Google should take a few lessons from Amazon and at least offer decent support
for their paying customers and developers who help flourish their play store
considering they take 30% cut of the developer earnings.

~~~
wetpaws
My app was removed without warning because I forgot to update privacy policy
field when google decided to make it mandatory.

------
mullingitover
"At every turn the <Google customer service> team was presented with a chance
to make things better and every time they blew it."

I mean, this is the history of Google in a nutshell. They deserve to be
systematically dismantled by Amazon for this alone.

~~~
Aeolun
Amazon support has never been anything less than stellar for me.

Edit: Someone downvotes my experience? Wut?

~~~
tomcam
Just contact HN support about the downvote.

I kid.

~~~
barry-cotter
I’ve emailed HN support about comments that were showdead because they were
new accounts or once a comment I made that was flagged, I felt, unfairly[1],
and gotten actual support from real people who can make decisions and fix
problems in under 12 hours.

HN does actually have better customer support than Google.

[1] If you find yourself doing this you are taking arguing on the internet
entirely too seriously.

~~~
tomcam
I have had exactly the same experience with the HN staff up to and including
[1], and you are completely right about the comparison to Google. In Google‘s
defense, I had a decent experience with support for my paid GSuite about 5
years ago.

------
paxys
Sounds like a very standard Google experience. To anyone stuck in a similar
hell in the future - once the company has demonstrated that they aren't
willing to help, there is no point continuing down that road. Escalate it to
your credit card provider (with documentation) and they will clear it up
pretty quick.

~~~
ArlenBales
That's the quickest route to having your Google account permanently suspended.
(YouTube, Gmail, etc. goodbye)

~~~
icxa
I wonder if this is a good thing.

Really random aside incoming:

I once was only able to quit my League of Legends video game addiction because
I gave my account away that I had so much vested in (skins, all characters,
rune pages) by basically messaging a random stranger, changing the account to
their email, going to a random password generator site, changing the pw
copy+pasting the password without me looking, and sending it off -- in effect
"suspending myself".

I was unnerved for a couple of weeks, but eventually, the itch to play died
off. I tried starting up a few times, but it wasn't worth it especially
knowing how much time I sank into it previously.

I wonder if I got myself permanently suspended from Google, (I want to quit
Google given how unethical they have become) would I rid myself from them for
good?

~~~
smnrchrds
He is an Android Developer. Getting banned could have career-disrupting or
even career-ending repercussions for him. It is not exactly comparable to
quitting a video game.

~~~
Aeolun
Start building iPhone apps? It’s not as if there aren’t any alternatives.

~~~
smnrchrds
I'm sure the costs (both direct costs and the opportunity cost) of a career
change is orders of magnitude higher than the $70 he is going to get back
through the chargeback.

------
rfkashani
Sadly, the only worthwhile way to get help for Google Fi nightmares is through
Ziggy.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectFi/comments/72dcgh/reddit_re...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectFi/comments/72dcgh/reddit_request_20_a_better_way_to_escalate_issues/)

I had to pester him a couple of times, file a BBB complaint and finally ask
Google for the registered officer of the company since I was literally going
to sue. That's when they filed a "remorse exception" that actually helped.

Also - ask for a "Specialist" \- they're the only ones who can help. Every
other guy is a "supervisor" at Google Fi support and they can't do anything.
Had to call in more than 30 times and exchanged upwards of 60 emails. It's a
shame.

------
sriram_sun
The author's experience mirrors my experience with Google Fi so much! Started
with Project Fi, upgraded to a Pixel 3 recently. Putting up with poor service
for a year and a half. They pretend to provide service and I pay the $35 every
month. I receive all my calls at home using my computer.

I called up customer service to complain about poor service twice. Nothing
happened. I just don't have the patience or time to follow up. Kudos to Jason
for bringing up this issue. Also, here is a conversation between me and a
friend in Mountain View who works for a large company there :D.

Me: I have Project Fi. Let me call you back using WhatsApp. Him: Oh I have
Project Fi too and was going to tell you the same thing!

The call quality is absolutely terrible when both ends are using Project Fi!

~~~
sriram_sun
Since this comment gathered steam at some point, I'll also leave this here. I
_really_ want to stick with Project Fi. Whoever is in charge, please please
pretty please fix the coverage issues. Work with T-Mo to just send me a
booster or something. I'm ready to pay for it. Your international rates are
great.

------
bane
Fi's "killer app" is their seamless international experience for U.S.
travelers. I travel outside of the U.S. at least twice a year and firing up my
phone on the plane and being greeted with a "welcome X country" like I had
just traveled between U.S. states is amazing.

Down the list is their relatively cheap service for undemanding users (people
who use less than a couple GB of data per month). I'm pretty sure I could just
go get a better unlimited plan for slightly more (with more phone choices)
tomorrow. But I wouldn't really use the extra service and so I'm happy to get
the extra $100/yr or whatever I'm saving.

That being said, I've had extremely mixed support from Fi. The support is
responsive, human and polite. But for issues almost exactly like this one,
Fi's support staff is entirely unable to cope. In our case, Fedex had even
taken a photo of the delivery (which was the wrong house). Fedex needed some
kind of shipping code from google to release the photo so we could prove it's
not the same house (or at least figure out who had our new phone).

Not a single person at Fi could provide the code to Fedex.

We escalated 3 times and it took about a month to resolve, but in the
meanwhile we were charged for a phone we didn't receive, and the clue as to
where it went was readily available.

Fi did eventually send us a new phone and everybody was terribly polite, but
anybody else would have just noticed the phone hadn't been activated, and sent
a new phone immediately (and if the phone were to be activated contact local
PD).

It took dozens of chats, emails, calls and so on, and each time the support
person on the other end would lose the script and try to resolve our issue
with some non-sequitur that wasn't solving the problem.

It's not the worst customer service experience we ever had, but it was down
there. The _only_ reason we didn't pull the plug was we were about to travel
outside of the U.S. and having service that just "works" was a big part of our
planning.

~~~
zawerf
I had good experiences with it while traveling in china. Other people in my
group bought local data sims which were 100 times cheaper than the $10/gb that
google fi charges but everything they wanted to use (google search, google
maps, facebook) were still blocked by the Great Firewall. Google Fi has built
in vpn and didn't have that problem.

~~~
reaperhulk
FWIW, the built-in VPN isn't actually what matters for why the internet is
unblocked in China when on a foreign SIM. Instead, the way cellular data
networks works is such that your traffic is tunneled back to the provider
first.

------
cletus
Two stories spring to mind.

The first is I worked at Google when the whole "real names" saga of Google
Plus was going on. The worst part about that was if some algorithm decided
your name wasn't real, it could block your entire Google account. You'd lose
access to GMail, Drive, everything. I don't know what bright spark PMs,
lawyers and executives signed off on that one but it was insanity. As a result
I would strongly recommend against any family or friends use any G+ features
in case the Real Names bot zapped their accounts. This was ultimately fixed
but it should never have shipped that way. Ever.

The fact that disputing a charge with you credit card provider like this could
result in you losing your GMail, Drive, Android developer account, etc means
you should absolutely under no circumstances use that service, ever, period,
no exceptions.

Don't get me wrong: I like GMail and Drive. I use them all the time. Thing is,
I want to keep using them so they get firewalled from every other service that
I use.

The second is something Eric Schmidt said a lot. He didn't say it first but
he's well known for saying it, and that is that more revenue is the solution
to every problem.

That's both true and not true. It's true in a high margin business (like
search). If you look at Google financials 10+ years ago there was a point
where the profit per employee was nearly $1m. It's less now but it's still
pretty significant. Low margin businesses are not in its DNA.

Let me repeat that and make it clear: Google simply cannot compete in a low
margin business.

Personally I learned this the hard way as I worked on Google Fiber until that
was quietly shelved (by "advancing our amazing bet" no less). Fiber services
are capital intensive. They require strict financial discipline and planning.
There are far more moving parts to this kind of business than many people
realize. Comcast, Verizon and AT&T have gotten very good at this sort of
business. Google didn't (and IMHO never will).

I put Google Fi firmly in this camp. I also put making hardware at scale in
this camp (compared to, say, Apple who is second to none when it comes to
logistics, procurement, financing and supply chain management).

Google's DNA is hard technical problems at scale with no UI like an almost
blank page with a text box and a search button. The infrastructure behind that
is unbelievably good.

But telecommunications? Tied to my Google account? Sorry but that's a hard
pass for me.

~~~
Gibbon1
> Let me repeat that and make it clear: Google simply cannot compete in a low
> margin business.

That reminds me of Intel. The addiction to high margin microprocessors and a
captive customer base had two effects. a) Intel doesn't know how to play with
customers that have a choice. b) Customers with a choice avoid designing in
Intel solutions like the plague. Over the long haul Intel is a much smaller
company than they would be otherwise.

Here is a good one. In the late 80's Intel fucked over Panasonic badly enough
that Panasonic put Intel in their prohibited vendors list. I worked for a
group that managed to get Panasonic in as a customer. And then Intel fucked
them again. And back on the list they went.

Google has the same mindset that Intel does. They can't process the
ramifications of their business practices on future business opportunities.

~~~
cletus
> They can't process the ramifications of their business practices on future
> business opportunities.

Here's where that really hurts them (IMHO). Google, as a whole, has a very
short attention span. A lot of things at Google began as bottom-up
engineering-led projects, the poster child for which is probably GMail. This
seems to work really well for things that are engineering problems. I think it
works incredibly badly for a bunch of other things though.

We, as engineers, tend to get bored. There are all sorts of quotes for this in
software development like after you finish the first 90% you need to finish
the second 90% (I forget who said this).

I see project after project come out of Google that might be promising but it
gets abandoned as the talent moves on to the next hot thing until finally it's
killed. The cost of this, as you say, is paid by future projects.

The classic counterexample to me is Apple Pay (vs Google Checkout/Google
Wallet/Google Pay/Android Pay/Whatever it's called now). Every few weeks Apple
announces some new bank or merchant or country is launched. Over years now
they've slowly been building out this ecosystem. Google just doesn't have the
commitment, focus and attention for this schlep [1], which is why they'll
lose. Apple does.

Apple has their failures too (Ping anyone?) but it's fair to say Apple really
does put more wood behind fewer arrows [2].

[1]
[http://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html)

[2] [https://www.techradar.com/news/internet/page-more-wood-
behin...](https://www.techradar.com/news/internet/page-more-wood-behind-fewer-
arrows-driving-google-success-979307)

~~~
HillaryBriss
> after you finish the first 90% you need to finish the second 90% (I forget
> who said this).

I don't know who said it either, but I heard an alternate phrasing: "The first
50% of the project takes 90% of the time. But the second 50% takes the other
90% of the time."

~~~
Dylan16807
That formulation doesn't work. The early work goes deceptively fast.

~~~
HillaryBriss
Fair point. IDK. I just think it's critical that the last part of the saying
be highly unexpected.

I mean, if it starts with "The first 90% of the work takes 50% of the time
..." how do we maximize the unexpectedness of the punch line?

Cargill's original formulation, as Cletus quotes from Wikipedia, is best, I
guess.

------
warp_factor
Google Fi is a huge joke.

I had the same type of shenanigans with their customer service. Eventually
after calling every day for about two weeks I managed to find a competent
supervisor that managed to follow up on what he said.

Since then I moved my main number back to ATT and I keep a Google Fi account
open for my international travels. I only ever use Fi outside the US and I
pause the account whenever I'm in the US.

GoogleFi is a good deal financially but if there is something I learned after
years dealing with shady companies is that you don't want any of those shady
companies have any leverage by keeping something essential such as your phone
number under control as a leverage.

Sadly I saw exactly the same type of issue with their Google Cloud customer
service. I really think that Google employee still think they work for the
best company in the world and that people cannot wait to do business with
them. They need to get out of their little bubble.

~~~
innocentoldguy
Google doesn't have customer service. They have instead built mechanisms to
help them avoid any kind of meaningful interactions with their customers at
all. If they've indeed built anything at all, it is customer neglect.

------
gecko
I've used Google Fi for years, and I've heard stories like these for years.
Despite comments in this thread, I don't think these experiences are new;
they're just more common now because more people are on Fi.

I think there are two major issues: first, Google doesn't really care all that
much about Google Fi. It's just them keeping their foot in the water for
later, not a major focus right now, so it doesn't get the attention and care
it really needs. Second, Google Fi is honestly great, _right up until the
point it isn 't_: if you ask around the community, there's a strong split
between people like me, who have had nothing but good experiences, and people
like Jason, who have an amazingly awful experience. It's basically that Google
Fi is thoroughly buggy: you're fine as long as you stay in the happy path, but
the moment you get to something untested (stolen phone, FedEx loses shipment,
the discount fiasco a couple weeks ago), everything goes to hell.

I've stuck with Fi so far because the pain I've hit has been negligible _for
me_ [1], but I currently assume that it's just a matter of time before I get
burned in some capacity. It's a trade-off that makes sense, given how I use my
phone, but it's annoying having that in the back of my mind.

[1]: The one thing they did flub was the Pixel 3 discount a couple weeks ago,
wherein they accidentally charged and then refunded the entire value of a
Pixel 3. Because I pay my bill by credit card, and because that card is
nowhere near its credit limit, this was just two lines on a bill for me that I
never really have to think about. But for those who pay their bill by debit,
or who were near a limit, or whose bill rolled over between the charge and the
refund, that was also a horrible experience that angered them about Fi. Those
kinds of stories have been par for the course.

~~~
neogodless
That sounds like automation in a nutshell. On rails, everything is excellent.
Veer off course and there's no recovery!

Usually humans fix those outliers, but if things are just too stuck on rails,
there may be no fixing derailment.

It's like even if a CSR individually has excellent intentions and believes
there will be a follow-up, it's not actually on any scripted recovery plan, so
it just won't happen.

------
petee
Without going into specifics, and for what its worth, I've had some great
experiences with their customer service and Its part of the reason I've stuck
with them for so long. I doubt that'd be the case if I experience what this
guy did though.

While dealing with a fairly technical sms issue, I was pleasantly surprised
how far up the food chain I got when the first agents couldn't help me. The
biggest speed bump is usually getting through the first round of questions
that filter out the kruft and grandma-issues, but I understand the necessity

edit: I realized after I wrote this that most of my experiences were during
the Project Fi phase, before it went full Google, so theres that...

------
KZeillmann
It's weird -- I use Google Fi and loved it, and I got great customer service,
up until the point I ordered a Pixel 3 through them back in November. I had to
contact them so many times to find out why they hadn't shipped yet, and the
regular customer support people had no idea what was going on, and when it got
escalated to shipping, they also seemed to have no idea but were much less
apologetic about it. After a few weeks of not having my phone shipped, I
ordered it through the Google Store (with 0% interest financing instead of
paying it off through my bill, oh well) and I got it within a week. It's
ridiculous. I'd been a loyal customer of Fi for over two years, but that
ordeal almost made me want to quit. If I had to go through what this author
went through, I would have done the same.

------
paultopia
How on earth is google not being sued every day? It seems like once a week
there's a new HN post about some kind of massive screwing they deliver to a
customer.

~~~
viiralvx
As a friend once described to me, they probably have the legal resources of a
small country/nation, so there's that.

~~~
ianai
This is the danger in the free economy. Without proper regulation, powers
concentrate and people have the shirts on their backs sold from them.

~~~
dnautics
The damning thing is that also with "proper regulation", powers concentrate,
and people have the shirts on their backs sold to them.

------
NamTaf
At this point, I straight-up refuse to ever entertain giving Google a cent of
actual money. It's very obvious from the multitude of stories like this that
no one can rely on them to provide a reasonable customer service experience
unless you're a big business with a large spend.

At least with data-funded services, I can choose to stop any time. I'm never
on the hook via some form of contract.

------
dwg
I've had a similar problem with Google Fi customer support when my phone
suddenly stopped charging while traveling abroad. Sparing the details, the
lesson I learned is not to buy a phone from Google. As a customer you are at a
severe disadvantage to Google, because Fi is not their bread & butter and they
don't seem to mind if you cancel. Furthermore, in the event of a dispute,
Google will turn off related services on your account, for example your
associated Gmail account. After learning this lesson the hard way I wanted to
stop my Fi service, but unfortunately I still found the Fi plan to be the best
choice for my present situation: I am outside the U.S. for most of the year. I
hope other carriers will improve their international plans.

------
aerovistae
Here's what I did in a similar situation, for those who may be interested.

Basically I signed up for AT&T home internet, and it DID NOT WORK, period. It
was unusably slow and cut out constantly. I couldn't use it. I told them so
within a week, they sent someone to fix it, they failed to fix it, I told them
I'm canceling. I proceeded to return their router and switch to a different
provider and immediately got fine service.

But AT&T didn't cancel my service. They said I couldn't because I was locked
in for a year or some arbitrary time period. It's been five years now so some
details escape me-- but the key thing is that after some months they claimed I
owned them $600, and I said I wasn't paying when I never got anything from
them, end of story, goodbye.

My bank took their side on the part of the bill that had already been paid for
that first month. I explained what had happened, and the bank "talked to AT&T"
who no doubt showed them a sheet of paper with the words "He signed up for our
internet and we installed it," and my bank said there was nothing to do. So
that first month was a sunk cost.

But I never paid that $600. Simple as that. They forwarded it to a collections
agency, I ignored it. I told them, "don't call me: I will never pay you."

It went on my credit report and my credit dropped about 40 points, making no
appreciable difference to me. I ignored it. Over time the credit report
recovered, and somehow after about four years AT&T withdrew the whole thing
without any further action from me. It's no longer on my credit.

Moral of the story: if you can withstand a small dent in your credit, just
tell MEGACORPXYZ to fuck off.

Sad that this is what you have to do these days, but it's better than no
options at all.

~~~
londons_explore
You're lucky... Some collections agencies are far more rigorous... They'll
come to your house every day at awkward times. They'll ring your grandma and
try to tell all your friends you're in debt, etc.

If they finally get paid, it won't be $600 - it'll be $600 + $1500 of interest
at 55% APR and $1200 of fees for letters, visits, phone calls etc.

~~~
ncallaway
Under the FDCPA you have the right to demand no contact with you, your
workplace, or your family members.

If they willfully violate this non-contact demand, they can be on the hook for
$1,000 in statutory damages. They can also be on the hook for disruption they
caused at a work-place, or emotional of physical distress.

[https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-fdcpa-
violat...](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-fdcpa-
violations.html)

If a debt-collector is getting overly aggressive, send a certified letter to
their headquarters explicitly invoking the FDCPA and demanding that they not
contact you further. Document the letter, and save the certified letter
receipt.

If they contact you further, or harass your family, document it thoroughly and
then speak to a lawyer about filing a lawsuit.

~~~
reaperducer
You can't sue a company that won't give you its name.

When I moved into my current place, a collection agency (agencies?) kept
sending people over looking for the deadbeat who lived here previously. They
would tell me why they were there but never from what agency so there was no
way to preemptively make them stop.

After a few months of telling them that the previous person moved out it died
down. But every four or five months another one shows up. Presumably because
the debt has been sold to a different company.

This has been going on for five years.

It's great that you know the law. They know it, too.

~~~
ncallaway
> It's great that you know the law. They know it, too.

They don't. Or, if they do, they're actively violating the law by refusing to
tell you what agency they were from. It's definitely an effective tactic to
make enforcement of the law hard to impossible, but they are not working
within the bounds of the law.

From: [https://www.creditkarma.com/advice/i/debt-collection-
rights/](https://www.creditkarma.com/advice/i/debt-collection-rights/)

> You have the right to ask for the debt collector’s name.

> As noted above, debt collectors are also required to furnish the name of
> their company or agency.

They cannot (legally) refuse to provide you the name of the collections
agency.

If they do so, I'm not even sure how you would be able to make a payment. If
this were to happen, I might try to imply (without explicitly stating) that I
wanted to make a payment, and then ask who I need to contact to figure out how
to write a check. I'd then use whatever address/contact information they gave
me to start researching them.

------
Causality1
Google does not have the company culture or attention span to be an
infrastructure provider. It never has and it never will. Google Fiber is dying
on the vine as we speak. Google Fi will be dead long before they work out
these problems.

------
ta1234567890
This sounds very familiar to me. About two years ago I wanted to switch to
google fi. Ordered a phone online, which I paid on full for, then waited. The
phone never arrived, when talking to google it was very similar to the
article's situation. The only "solution" they offered was to (after a month!)
refund me (which it would take 2 weeks to go through) when they could confirm
with FedEx the package was not delivered (which I had already done, but it
would take them days to do), and then I could buy a phone again. But they just
wouldn't send me another phone. So I would be forced to wait almost 2 months
to get the product and service they had initially promised to deliver in 3
days.

I ended up having to call my bank to get a refund. It was a very frustrating
experience and I really wanted to like Google fi.

------
smeggysmeg
I'm a long-time Google Fi customer and moderate another community about Google
Fi. Some of the criticism about Google not being as customer focused is valid,
but the two biggest problems with Google Fi are:

* The dependence on rigid processes. Customer support reps are cogs in a machine with no ability to override automated actions or to circumvent when processes go awry.

* Google does absolutely zero of the inventory or shipping. It's contracted out to Ingram Micro. Anyone in the IT world who has dealt with them knows they screw up a lot. Not terribly, but unless you have a direct line to them, you're hosed.

Combine these two factors and then add some typical call center metrics focus
and nobody is empowered or interested in going to bat for you when the process
falls apart.

~~~
pishpash
Not an excuse at all. It is Google that chooses their own logistics partners
and support team. Why do they choose shitty ones?

~~~
falsedan
I remember when Amazon fucked up and signed a contract with the worst local
courier company in the UK; they were locked in and couldn't back out. So the
advised people who'd previously had poor service from those couriers to put
"please deliver with royal mail" in the delivery notes and would ship it out-
of-contract & ate the fees.

------
pointcloud
Recently I switched from Google Fi to AT&T for similar reasons. After I
transferred my number out of Google Fi, there was a questionnaire from Google
asking why I switched, and interestingly, among all the selections (coverage,
price, etc.), there was not an option mentioning customer service.

------
tristor
I’ve been on T-Mobile for years when many friends went with Google Fi. Service
on T-Mobile is spottier in CONUS, but internationally my experience has been
far superior to that of my friends. Good choice.

------
StreamBright
This is exactly the reason why I do not trust Google with anything businesses
critical. At this stage they trolling their most loyal user base.

------
mellow-lake-day
I'm pretty happy with Ting. Been with them for several years. Their data isn't
cheap but their customer support more than makes up for it.

[https://ting.com/](https://ting.com/)

~~~
heartbreak
I live in a Ting fiber city, and having them as my home ISP has been the most
amazing telecom experience ever. They’re the best.

------
honkycat
I've worked with google support before on multiple occasions. For their retail
store, fi, and their cloud offering at the $400/mo cloud support contract.

Their support is bad. I would not recommend using any of their products. I
would not choose to work there because I cannot imagine it is any better
internally.

------
alamortsubite
I live in the U.S. and frequently travel internationally. In this capacity, Fi
is the best service I've used by far. When I'm in the U.S., my monthly bill is
quite inexpensive, too, rarely exceeding $27 (including taxes). No B.S.
hotspot fee (or having to jump through hoops to circumvent one). And I use an
additional SIM card Google provided free-of-charge with an LTE modem to
reverse-tunnel to a low-bandwidth automation server in a remote location. All
great stuff.

Unfortunately, my experience with Fi customer service has been no better than
Atwood's. Basically, if you can't solve a problem on your own, you're out of
luck. To be fair, I've had terrible service with other providers, too (I
haven't tried Apple but for technical reasons the iPhone would not work for
me).

------
emptyparadise
The thing with Google is that things work well 99% of the time for 99% of the
people, but if you hit that 1% of 1%, your life will become an absolute
nightmare filled with support site loops, chatbots, automated email replies,
and months of suffering. If you're lucky, your story will make it to the front
page of HN and somehow get resolved immediately.

------
xs83
I got angry just reading that - Personally I would have started a claim back
process from my card provider - you can guarantee that it would have caused
something on Google's End once they started getting chargeback notices.

~~~
blago
Some people point out that Google's usual response to chargebacks is to
retaliate and ban the account from using their services. However, I think that
if enough people fought, and the chargeback rate reached some critical level,
they would have to answer to Visa and Mastercard and be forced to make a
change.

~~~
dfrage
The OP is an Android developer, eating the $70 dollars was part of the cost of
continuing to do that business.

But it's not going to help their brand or encourage others who are too tied to
Google to sign on to services like Fi, and if not with this guy, in general
it'll encourage people to find other lines of work.

I suspect so many people are sufficiently tied more or less to Google that the
pool able to do chargebacks is small enough it won't prompt Visa/Mastercard on
down to take action.

------
guajiro_natural
I had similar issues too. Awful customer service, more than a month shipping
delay for the Pixel 3, "Google Fi VPN" does not work in China, only the mobile
data, is better to buy a SIM over there, Wifi calling didn't work either. Now
here in the US, the signal is pretty bad too, sometimes while talking to
someone the call just goes silent and the other person can't hear you. My
pixel 3 makes a weird noise ( like an insect trapped inside your phone) from
time to time. and more... I switched to Verizon a month ago.

------
DubiousPusher
Wow! Good times. Almost tops my own worst experience which was with Avis car
rentals. The author indicates that this kind of experience is probably due to
systemic problems within Google's customer support program and I'd guess
that's right.

I've noticed a pattern that many companies have adopted. First they silo the
customer service division usually culminating in remotely locating the
customer service frontline. They then cut ties between any part of the company
and rank and file customer service workers, linking them only to their
supervisors. In the final step the supervisors are prohibited from forwarding
customers anywhere. Then customer service becomes like a separate company
within the company. I've seen this structure over and over and the companies
with the worst service always have this shape.

You call. You get a call center. They can't transfer you anywhere. You ask for
a supervisor. They try to tell why you don't need one. You insist. You get
one. The supervisor takes your call. You discover they can't fix your problem.
You ask who can. They can't say. You ask if there's anyone else you can talk
to. They say no. You ask for their manager. They say you can't talk to them.
You ask for corporate level customer relations. They don't have that number.
On and on and on...

My theory is that structuring customer service into such a separate silo
actually breeds a combative relationship between customer service and company
leadership. Without more contact between the people building and servicing the
products and frontline customer support people, customer service just looks
like a big fat cost center. No useful information makes it out (by design) and
year after year it's just a big red line item for everyone else. Of course
this leads to a perpetual push to decrease costs in customer service which
leads to really regressive behavior. Too many customers are need free
replacements tighten the grip on all comps. Too many high level customer
support people are still giving things away. Get rid of any high level
customer support personnel. Could we save money with less supervisors? Yes but
the one's we've got are already overworked. Well, track the number of times an
employee allows customers to escalate and create disincentives.

In this way customer service actual becomes the opposite of what it's meant to
be. Instead of enabling customers or helping them it becomes a hindrance. It
becomes a wall that protects the rest of the company especially the leadership
from having to have any contact with the unwashed masses.

------
cmurf
How can a remittance period begin if the customer never has possession of the
goods? As far as I'm aware, the FOB is destination in all such consumer
transactions. Only in commercial shipping is there such a thing as FOB
shipping point where the buy takes legal possession of the goods the moment
the goods leave shipper's dock.

I think the remittance expiration is b.s. because the remittance period never
began because the buyer never took possession of the goods.

------
Aeolun
It’s Google. I don’t know what was expected, but as soon as anything is
Google, customer support is not one of them.

------
killjoywashere
So, I'm a Fi customer and have a Pixel 2. I'm planning to upgrade on the next
release but the rumblings from folks since the Project Fi to Google Fi
transition have me concerned. Is there a rate-my-professor for phone plans?

------
exabrial
I had a problem with messages app, not sending messages. 5 calls to support,
and they couldn't fix it. They don't have a way to get a hold the messages
team to fix it. Simply incredible.

~~~
londons_explore
The messages team doesn't want to talk to you. Their app is used by 1.5
Billion people.

If just 0.1% of them had some issue with their app, that would be 1.5 million
phone calls.

There are ~3 people working on the messaging app usually. Thats half a million
calls each. Thats 52 years to answer all those calls!

The TL;DR is that you will never make a bugfree app, and the remaining bugs
will always leave some unhappy customers. At some point the team needs to
decide that they need to move on to making new features rather than bugfixing,
and that point is well before they start talking to random users on the phone
about rare bugs. Sorry - the app isn't for you - go use another app or another
phone.

~~~
falsedan
how did telcos manage to run a message product (SMS) for the 20 years before
Google? The user-base is bigger than 1.5B too

~~~
exabrial
Agree, 100%; silicon valley has 0 clue how to run support, and as a result
their user experience is awful.

And what good are new features of you can't even send a message in the first
place? The solution was disabling RCS completely or, hard resetting the phone
(uninstalling and or wiping messages did not fix anything).

~~~
luckylion
> silicon valley has 0 clue how to run support, and as a result their user
> experience is awful.

It seems kind of systemic: defer support requests until exit/IPO, not your
problem any more.

------
throw7
Google's 'shipping & receiving" seems to have a logistics problem. Fi support
shifted to s & r, but they did nothing. The depts sound to be butting heads.
Would love to know what's going on internally there. The CEO should step in.

------
tacon
I was limping along on a fading Nexus 5X (goes to sleep for a night, then
revives) and refusing to pay the outrageous prices for the Pixels. Huawei has
a phone I was eyeing, and I would have dumped Google Fi. But the Pixel 3a came
out at exactly the right time, so I am still in the Google fold for this
product cycle. But this story cured me of ever buying a phone directly from
Google. Just like one shouldn't buy web hosting and domain registration from
the same entity, the lesson here is never buy a device directly from Google.
The risk is just too great.

------
colde
Even companies that are great at building fantastic products and great
technical solutions tends to struggle customer service organisations. It seems
they always assume that everything fits in to neat little buckets, and require
adherence to them. This is true for both Google and Valve (Steam).

Trusting your customer service teams to have a great degree of autonomy in
solving issues can sometimes be really important.

It's a shame you never know whether a company has sucky customer service
before you buy their services.

------
msh317
Sorry to see your unhappy with Google Fi - I switched from previously having
Verizon, Sprint, and AT&T - and what a difference.

Now that said, the one major observation I see about Google, Apple, Amazon,
Yahoo, etc. is that Google does not have a lead Architect for Google products
and services. The company is certainly leading the charge with technology -
yet there is no one taking the charge of bringing everything together.

This reminds me of the early days of Apple - remember the Newton? Wow a
computer you could hold in your hand - and the tech community were all wowed -
yet the consumer didn't understand what to do with it - they were not coders
and until it did something it was just another piece of tech. Then 3Com came
along and created the Palm Pilot - and the handheld computer took off.

That said - I believe this is why Google like Microsoft and Apple have such a
customer service problem - they have simply become tech company - customers
are just a part of their products and don't receive the attention of an
advocate within the company's product development team.

------
mrpippy
My first thought is that by 4/22, I would have been issuing a chargeback with
my CC company and getting them to handle it

~~~
saagarjha
This sounds like a great way to get your entire Google account suspended.

~~~
ClassyJacket
Also the accounts of any business you work for or ever work for in the future!

~~~
p2t2p
I would consider that to be a good thing. Every business who uses Google
services should stop doing it right away.

~~~
user5994461
Your current company using gmail for business might beg to differ.

~~~
p2t2p
Nah, it is a mixture of Exchange and GSuite, it'll be up and running in no
time =).

------
Keverw
Seen another story on HN a while back where someone also had trouble with
Google Fi... Stories like this make me feel like Google doesn't have the
customer service part down, and I'm not sure if I'd want to rely on them with
anything that deals with money. However I'm sure people at Google read HN, so
probably an issue they are working to improve internally I hope. I know
technical wise they are ahead of their game though, but feel like the human
touch side needs to be worked on especially for paying services or earning
money from Google products as a partner. For example, I'm not sure if Youtube
Partners who have any issues can talk to an actual person.

Also, he mentioned he kept having to re-explain his situation to several
representatives when calling them. I don't get why companies can't transfer
the call and leave a note for the next agent...

Sometimes I feel like at some companies agents in general that just don't
know, press a button to transfer you to a random agent in the queue (with some
priority to skip over everyone else) instead of transferring to someone more
specific or higher level. One reason that gives me this feel for sure is when
they ask your name and details even though you already told someone else
before being transferred.

I think a key thing that would make me happy with support is when transferring
over to someone else they already have a description of your problem, account
information so you don't have to explain over and over.

I had an issue with another provider (not Google) where you could text but
couldn't make calls and got transferred to like 6 different agents then
decided to give up and porting away as I felt like just a number to them. As a
tech geek, I feel like something probably screwed up porting in the first
place but I doubt a support rep on a phone would even have the tools to
investigate a problem with like. I hate talking on the phone unless I have to.
I rather try to figure it out myself or use online chat first.

------
peter_d_sherman
Great article!

Excerpt:

"Document everything. Write down dates, times, conversation points, who will
do what and when. Get peoples’ names. Then if support drags on you can
maintain some sanity and hold people accountable."

That's a gem of advice for anyone who needs to deal with an unresponsive
customer service department in any nameless, faceless, and/or bureaucratic
organization.

But, that being said, I wouldn't hold the lower-level people to be ultimately
accountable... That's because they are usually not empowered to act by
corporate policy, the proper infrastructure for action, internal politics, or
any number of other company-imposed barriers...

Ultimately, what holds these companies to account, over time, is dwindling
sales, the loss of profitability, and the migration of their customer bases to
other companies...

Customers are always voting with their feet...

------
benjaminwootton
I had the same delivery and customer experience farce with Google many years
ago on one of the early Nexus tablets.

The author is right that it damages their entire brand. I’m now involved in
advising large enterprises on their cloud strategy, and I still feel a tinge
of bitterness saying anything nice about GCP!

------
rdl
Google Fi on iPhone is pretty meh (if you travel a lot internationally), but
there is one reasonable advantage of google fi over a lot of other operators:
reasonably secure against malicious number porting. There are better options
to protect a number, but nothing as accessible.

------
dontbenebby
OP should not have attempted to negotiate with the hostage taker. They should
have instead reached out to their CC issuer and explained the situation. If
the goods were not delivered most competent credit card companies will issue a
chargeback.

~~~
bsamuels
have fun getting your google account permabanned when you dispute a google
charge

~~~
dontbenebby
" _We 're banning you for demanding a refund for items not delivered_" seems
like a great way to attract regulatory scrutiny:

> _By law, a seller should ship your order within the time stated in its ads
> or over the phone. If the seller doesn’t promise a time, you can expect it
> to ship your order within 30 days... If the seller is unable to ship within
> the promised time, it must notify you, give a revised shipping date and give
> you the chance to cancel for a full refund or accept the new shipping date._

[https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0221-billed-
merchandis...](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0221-billed-merchandise-
you-never-received)

------
sixty4bit
One of his topics really hit home for me:

 _Customers don’t differentiate branches of a company when thinking about
brand identity._

Google Fi was running a special, buy the phone from Google Fi and you get $800
off of your bill. I bought the phone from Google. Not Google Fi. It took 3
months for them to figure out that I was never going to get that $800. Every
rep that I spoke with except for the last one said, "it looks like you should
get this money, we don't know why you aren't."

The benefits of Fi out weigh the shittiness of their customer support, or lack
thereof. And none of the other carriers are any better. That's the only reason
I am still a subscriber.

------
neilv
The writer has more patience than I would, today. Halfway through, I would've
switched to talking with communications/utility and consumer regulatory
authorities, state attorney general's office, credit card company, etc.

------
jlmorton
I had almost the exact same experience. Google Fi has the worst customer
service of any online company I have ever interacted with. It's a strong
statement, which I've reflected on here for a moment, but I believe it's
accurate.

I ordered a new Pixel 3 as part of the Cyber Monday promotion, which was $600
for the phone with $200 in Fi credits. When ordering the phone, I accidentally
used the pre-filled shipping address on Google's order form. This my mistake,
but I noticed it quickly when I got the order confirmation email. The default
shipping address went to my office address. My company had moved officers the
month prior. The office was empty and unoccupied. I couldn't receive the phone
there.

Before calling Google Fi, I called FedEx. FedEx quickly answered my call and
pulled up my order. Typically, FedEx is able to re-route a package that is
still in shipment. However, Google Fi has placed restrictions on the shipment
which prevent recipients from changing the address. Only Google can update the
address.

I called Google Fi and waited on hold for over two hours. This was around the
holiday season, and Fi is a newish service, so I wasn't particularly annoyed
by this. When I finally got ahold of someone and explained my mistake, they
said they'd open a case with their shipping team, who would be in touch with
me.

Two days later, no one had contacted me, so I used Google Fi's online chat
feature. After waiting in line for an hour and a half, I was connected to
someone. I explained the problem again, asked if there was any ETA. They said
the problem was already escalated, nothing to do but wait.

Another two days later, no contact was made. I contacted Google again. I got
the same answer. The ticket has been escalated to their shipping specialists,
they will be contacting me.

At this point, FedEx attempted delivery of the package, which was rejected,
since no company exists at the address. I contacted Google again. They said
the shipping specialists would be getting in touch with me.

One week after this, FedEx noted a delivery exception, and that the package
would be returned the sender. I contacted Google again. Now that the package
is being returned to Google, could they cross-ship me a replacement phone to
the correct address? No - I would need to contact their shipping specialists,
who would be contacting me.

Several days later, I finally received email contact from the shipping
specialists. This team immediately cancelled my order, without ever talking to
me. They noted that the shipper had been unable to deliver the package, so
they would refund me the cost of the phone.

Unfortunately, at this point, the Cyber Monday promotion had ended. The phone
now cost $200 more, and the Google Fi credits had been reduced to $100. I
asked Google if they would honor their previous pricing, since I had been
trying to change the shipping address for several weeks. My message:

> Thanks for getting back to me. When I purchased the phone on Cyber Monday,
> there was a promotion, with the phone costing $599 and $200 in Google Fi
> Credits. Today, the price of the phone on the Fi shopping site is $799 with
> $100 in Fi Credits.

> The package with the phone waited in XXXXXXXXXX at FedEx's facility for a
> week, and I contacted Fi support several times to try and get the shipping
> address updated. Each time, I was told that the issue had been escalated to
> the Shipping Specialist team, but a week later, the package was returned by
> FedEx. If the address had been updated when I first contacted Fi support,
> then FedEx would have simply delivered the package the next day.

> Will Google Fi still honor the original price I paid for the phone?

Google's Response:

> Thank you for the response. If you happen to process another order, please
> let me know. I can escalate your case to my higher level of Support for
> approval for the promotion. I cannot guarantee that the request will be
> approved, but I will explain the why you did not receive the initial order
> in full detail. Please let me know if you have further questions.

So I did that. Ten days later, and fully one month after I ordered the phone,
I finally heard back from Google:

> My name is Lee and I'm a higher level Specialist here with Google Fi. I'm
> working directly with our Promotions Team to determine your eligibility for
> our "Pixel 3 / 3 XL $400 Back" promotion that was ongoing from November 22nd
> @ 11:00 PM PT - November 27th @ 11:59 PM PT.

> After thoroughly reviewing your account, we have determined you are
> ineligible for an exception to this promotion.

> Per the promotion terms: "Limited time offer available from 11/22/18 11:00
> PM PT through 11/27/18 11:59 PM PT, or while supplies last"

> Since your original order GS.XXXX-XXXX-XXXX was returned to shipper due to
> an incorrect shipping address, we are unable to provide an exception.

> We apologize for any inconvenience. If you have any questions, you can
> always reach us by replying directly to this email.

Every interaction with Google Fi took hours of time. None of them ever
resulted in a positive experience. Google Fi was never able to do anything to
help the situation. They could not update the address. They couldn't cancel
the order and ship a new phone. They couldn't honor the original pricing.
There was literally nothing there were ever able to do to help me recover from
my mistake using an incorrect shipping address defaulted on the order phone.

------
gkanai
I've wanted to pay for Google Fi because their offering is compelling,
especially for people who travel internationally a lot but this is a great
reminder of why I won't pay for a crappy customer service experience.

------
gaia
International roaming at no extra cost is great, but if you leave Google Fi
you can pay for that when you needed it.

The real reason to stick with Google Fi is: it's the only carrier (ok, MNVO)
that requires 2FA for a SIM swap.

------
maxaf
I deal with such experiences by simply reversing the credit card charge. The
issuer of my card has a solid process for handling such situations. They ask a
series of questions: was the charge in exchange for goods or services? Did you
receive what was promised? How was your experience different from what you
expected? After about half an hour on the phone with an actual human, the
charge is reversed, and all goes back to normal. I’m confident that not even
google can fight bog standard chargebacks.

~~~
saagarjha
They can't, but they can sure make your life miserable if you depend on any
Google service.

------
programmarchy
> I then realized that I couldn’t cancel my account because I’d be on the hook
> for the whole $600 for the phone.

Should have just done a credit card charge back at this point.

------
whack
This reminds me of a similar experience with the Nexus tablet. I'm not sure
whether the blame lies with Google or HTC, but it sounds all too familiar with
what the author described.

TLDR: because the credit card billing address did not match the shipping
address, the customer service representative refused to accept payment for a
defective tablet which needed to be repaired. They insisted on mailing the
tablet all the way back, and requiring that the tablet be mailed back again
with a different shipping address.

[https://outlookzen.com/2016/07/24/why-im-never-buying-htc-
ag...](https://outlookzen.com/2016/07/24/why-im-never-buying-htc-again/)

~~~
londons_explore
Sometimes it's less effort to change the billing address of the card...

Some of those 'app based' credit cards let you change the billing address with
just a tap of a button. It's particularly useful when you're away from home
and the company won't ship to anywhere except the billing address.

------
keyle
I admire this man's patience and I would have lost my shi* way earlier. I'd
probably have them reported to VISA for charging my card.

------
tomlu
As a counterpoint I have contacted Google Fi support four times and was very
happy with the level of service. Though it's possible that all the issues I
had was within the scope of the first line of defence, and if you outside of
that you get OP's experience.

Disclosure: I work for Google, but honestly I don't think it has particularly
biased me to say nice things about Google Fi.

------
everydaypanos
I can't understand why would somebody order something from Google and then use
the chat "support" app to ask where their package is. All packages have
tracking numbers and as soon as they are "on their way" you just contact the
Courier or use their site to track it precisely. Why escalate it to the seller
who has no idea where the package actually is?

~~~
ledbettj
Because when the courier is Fedex, contacting them would be even more futile
than Google.

I also use Project Fi; I also ordered a Pixel3 when it went on sale last
month. Fedex attempted delivery when I wasn't home; I had important meetings
the next day and couldn't stay home again, so I used Fedex's "hold for pickup
at Fedex Store" feature to re-route the package. This was a crucial mistake.

Fedex then refused to deliver the package to either my house or the store;
they sat on the package for TWO WEEKS, all while their "Customer Support" lied
to me about what the status was (It will be delivered EOD today; it's already
been delivered; it's going to be held for pickup...etc).

In the end the only way to get them to deliver my package was to contact the
shipper, Google. It was delivered two days later.

------
mkane848
I literally just left Fi last week and got an iPhone XS Max and god do I feel
justified. Been a Fi user for about as long, if not longer, than the author
and I can affirm the fears of having to deal with customer service and the
shakiness of the trade-ins, getting account credits, and poor communication
overall.

What happened to the Google that made things that Just Work™?

------
StreamBright
This story reminds me the time when I bought a Google Chromecast. It lasted 2
weeks and the device went completely dead. Chat with support:

\- which light is on?

\- none, device does not power on

\- do you understand that is dead and wont power on?

\- yeah but which led is blinking?

At this stage i hung up and went over to Amazon, luckily i have ordered the
device through them, and after few clicks the replacement device was on its
way.

------
Sebguer
I've come very close to canceling Fi due to awful customer support
experiences, but each time they've just narrowly, barely salvaged things
before I hit the point and wanted to deal with the headache of transitioning
to another phone provider.

------
willio58
About to leave for Paris on google fi for the first time from the US and
praying that it works well. Supposedly I don’t have to notify them and it
should be the same price for data and just a little more for old-fashioned sms
and phone calls.

~~~
bane
FWIW, I've used Fi overseas in about a dozen different countries across the
Americas, Europe and Asia. Service is usually better than in the U.S.

Phone calls I believe get a per minute charge, SMSs are free and data is
_exactly_ the same rate you pay in the U.S.

It's been flawless. Literally as easy as driving between states.

~~~
brownbat
I've enjoyed it, but none of my SMS messages ever seem to be delivered while
I'm overseas. I just fell back on over the top services and didn't worry about
it, thought it was happening to everyone on those networks.

Now I'm dreading a support call...

------
uptownfunk
What a world it will be where one-by-one the things that make Google Google
are slowly picked off, not by startups, but by other hungrier and ever-
expanding firms.

There are no sacred cows.

I repeat, there are no sacred cows.

I am waiting for the day when we will have Amzn Mail, Amzn Phones (I think
they already tried this), some type of social media shopping clone hybrid
thing that takes on Insta. And for the final nail in the coffin, Amzn Search.

What's shocking is that these companies are the ones with the capital to hire
the best and the brightest (alongside say GS and other IBs as well as MBB
etc., say what you will, but the folks that work there are actually smart even
though they're not engineers). What does this say about future prospects for
growth and share prices?

In any case, it's becoming more and more apparent, that no matter how big and
bad you are, there's someone as big or as threatening that can come and eat
your pie.

------
Friedduck
This nicely illustrates my experience with Google fiber. Even though I happily
use some of their nest products I’d hesitate purchasing anything from Google I
couldn’t just walk away from.

They don’t even attempt to be competent at customer service.

------
kgwxd
Would love to get that script to track which Mobile Network Code I’m connected
to. As soon as the Librem 5 comes out, I'm leaving Fi. I'd like to use which
ever network that script indicates, if it supports the phone.

------
sexyflanders
I feel like this is a case of fool me once same on you, fool me twice shame on
me.

------
shereadsthenews
It’s very likely that the rep you were communicating with was some flunky from
Ingram Micro, who handle fulfillment for Fi. Not that it makes you any happier
but this is just something Google can’t do in-house.

~~~
the_pwner224
If Google can't:

A) do this well in house

B) outsource it to someone who can get the job done

then they have no business selling expensive phones tied to critical services
which people rely on.

------
mjparrott
Potential moral of the story: use an iPhone and major cellular provider or
else you'll pay for the savings by having terrible customer support and
experience

------
kamfc
"... leaving Google Fi [for Tesla's modern, re-imagined Wardenclyffe Tower
global Internet service]."

------
Havoc
Google as best as I can tell just doesn't do customer support. At least not
the human interaction kind

------
cyrix100
Seems like a good solution would be to file against them in small claims for
the $70 plus time investment.

------
kabwj
And that’s why European consumer rights are cool.

~~~
luckylion
And what would those have changed? Do you believe that some EU consumer right
agent would bust down the door at Google and get you your $70 and an apology
for wasting your time?

Sure, you'll have a great time in court (as the OP would in the states, Google
is clearly in the wrong here), but that doesn't help you in the slightest,
because it's a lot of hassle, time and effort, you'll have to pay your lawyer
up front etc pp.

------
davidwparker
Sucks, but almost expected from Google.

Good luck with T-Mobile though- I had the worst experience with them and am
now a happy Fi customer...

------
seandoe
Interesting. I've been a project fi user for a few years now and have had
nothing but great customer service everytime. I loved leaving the Verizon
bullshit and appreciate the straightforward pricing and customer website.

