
Ask HN: Has anyone experienced workplace training that made a difference? - smilesnd
My friend in infosec was asked to review a app that is suppose to train people to identifying and eliminating bias in the workplace. It made me wonder if things like sexual harassment training, sensitivity training, inclusion training, and diversity training actually makes a difference in the workplace.
======
ohthehugemanate
I work for Microsoft, and I've been consistently impressed with the trainings
we get.

My first experience was the required business ethics training. It was a
Netflix style (and netflix production quality) mini-series. I had originally
planned to just let it run in the background while I did real work on a
different desktop, but it honestly pulled me in. There was the occasional
awkward line, but they had good actors who sold it. You actually care about
the characters and their conflicts. The company just announced a second
season, and there are honest to goodness water cooler rumors about it. Is John
gonna get fired? What about the obvious chemistry between the two sales team
members? Really, it was shockingly engaging.

Then I did the diversity in hiring training video. I rolled my eyes in advance
of the inevitable American hyper-sensitivity (I'm in Europe, we do a lot of
eye rolling at you guys lately)... And then actually learned a ton about
unconscious bias in research, hiring practices to try and avoid it, and some
of the things that would have tripped ME up. It definitely had an impact on
how I interview candidates.

After that I had my first onsite training. An afternoon of diversity and
inclusion, involving a group of improv artists trying out different
scenarios/approaches, and leading frank discussion with the audience. I
discovered that I've internalized a fair bit of racism in my home environment
(as the victim), and it really made me think about how to create a more
visibly safe environment for potential LGBTQ people on my team.

Training at MS has been fantastic; I'm honestly looking for some follow-up
courses in our leadership series, and some others. So it IS possible to
produce good, engaging, and meaningful corporate training courses.

All you need is the resources of Microsoft to do it. :)

~~~
hiccuphippo
Where did MS get the videos from? Can I buy/rent them?

~~~
PretzelPirate
MS makes their training videos, and they were amazing this and last year. I'm
actually looking forward to training next year to see what happens in the
story.

------
squirrelicus
I had diversity training once that didn't suck. The HR presenter opened by
showing three slides with pictures and asking the question "is this a diverse
group of people?" for each slide

Slide 1: a group of ~20 white males in suits together in times square

Slide 2: three Kenyan olympic medalists standing together in uniform

Slide 3: a stock photo with a dozen men and women of various races and dress
talking in an office conference room

The HR person then said "The answer to all of these questions is 'Yes.' here
at _company_ we value the diverse backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives
of each and every one of our employees. We encourage all of you to offer your
suggestions and feedback, and bring your unique perspective to bear in your
work here."

I was blown away. Never once has HR made me feel more valued and empowered.

~~~
nilkn
I imagine this perspective is quite rare. Apple's VP of Inclusion and
Diversity had to deliver a formal apology after the following similar remark:

"And I’ve often told people a story– there can be 12 white blue-eyed blonde
men in a room and they are going to be diverse too because they’re going to
bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation."

([https://beta.techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/apple-diversity-
head-...](https://beta.techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/apple-diversity-head-denise-
young-smith-apologizes-for-controversial-choice-of-words-at-
summit/?_ga=2.109298823.308996160.1532557996-436194683.1532032484))

She departed Apple soon after, though I don't have the evidence to make the
stronger statement that she departed because of the remark.

~~~
sigfubar
The current generation of Americans tends to assign imaginary meanings to
random dictionary words. Some clinicians might classify this as a sign of
mental illness, but this is an unpopular enough opinion that few would venture
to voice publicly.

~~~
jpitz
It seems odd to me that you single out Americans here. Do you have no
experience with any other group? I have observed Europeans do this as well.

~~~
sigfubar
I'm not American and have little contact with Americans outside of the people
I work with. In my experience Americans have set the tone for the sort of
behavior I've described in my previous comment, although it's by no means
limited to just Americans. For example, there are definitely some Russians who
broadcast loudly about "diversity" and "inclusiveness", but these people
themselves cite American sources in their rhetoric, and they aren't seen as
generally in agreement with the larger Russian culture.

------
ThrustVectoring
It doesn't matter if it actually makes a difference. These sorts of training
seminars are marketed and sold to _executives_ so that they can claim that
they've done something about a problem. Whether or not they work is
_completely immaterial_ to whether or not companies buy them - all that
matters is how it looks in various lawsuits.

"We've had racial sensitivity training and fired the offending manager" can be
the difference between settling a discrimination lawsuit relatively cheaply
and getting taken to the cleaners in a civil case with legs.

~~~
smilesnd
True, but miracles do happen. We might find a unicorn in all this.

~~~
Sophistifunk
I don't see how, as there's no selection criteria. The product being purchased
is the the sale itself and the proof you made your employees go, not the
content of any training.

------
martythemaniak
Sure. At my first tech job where I was an intern, we had a general intro,
which included harassment etc. One of their points "Perception is reality" has
stuck with me for many years.

This is just one example. A lot of this material is useful not just for not
getting fired, but also for getting along and getting stuff done better.

------
decasia
Once I went to a sexual/workplace harassment training at a little college
while I was doing my postdoc. The guy doing it was very experienced and down
to earth (which helps). And one thing he said really stuck with me:

"This training is not about telling you not to harass in the workplace. You
already know that. It's about learning how to handle harassment cases
sensitively if they come to your attention."

Needless to say, workplace harassment does happen, so it's good to at least
understand your institutional options, should they become relevant.

------
blakesterz
My last job was in a power plant and we had weekly safety meetings that
covered everything from IT to First Aid and everything in between. I'm scared
to death of being on ladders ever since they covered people falling and
wrecking themselves on ladders. The first aid stuff more or less helped too,
though I've not had to use it.

I think everything that stuck (actually made a difference) only stuck because
of repetition. We had meetings once a week and eventually came back around to
the same topics.

------
DIVx0
I've gone through some "company culture training." At first I thought it was a
good way to waste two days and was resentful because it was required training.
However, even with that poor mindset I gained several key insights from it and
I'm glad I was forced to go.

With that experience in mind now I approach all company training in a more
positive attitude. Sure most of it is useless but every so often there is
something to gain so might as well make the most of it.

------
rm_-rf_slash
I’m neither German nor a forklift operator, but this video answered every
question I’ve ever had about why warehouse safety is such a big deal.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-oB6DN5dYWo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-oB6DN5dYWo)

(Warning: bloody. Campy, funny, but bloody)

~~~
lstamour
That is memorable. The shock value is part of the training, makes it stick
with you more than if it was just a dry list of instructions.

------
88e282102ae2e5b
I did see a video that explained how to correctly handle high pressure gas
cylinders, which did teach me some critical things on not getting myself or
others killed.

~~~
danieltillett
What leaving them unchained against a wall is not a good idea?

------
EnderMB
It's not strictly workplace training, but I once worked on a small website for
an occupational physiotherapist, and as payment he came to my employers office
and helped out with a load of health and safety stuff.

We went over the standard stuff, like foot rests under desks, but he also
checked our posture, helped us find more comfortable ways to sit, and
recommended different chairs to people that had back issues.

It sounds silly, but I only spent ten minutes with him at max. From that ten
minutes:

* I learned how to sit so that my posture is correct. I'm yet to have any back issues after a decade of programming, so it's worked well so far!

* My bosses were told that employees should move around for at least 5 minutes every hour. This in itself was fantastic, as it forced people to get out of their chairs and interact with each other.

* Those that needed foot rests were given them, along with arm rests, suitable mice/keyboards, etc. Since I did some freelance stuff at home at the time, he suggested using a trackball either at work or at home to switch things up. I still have that trackball mouse, and it helps with the stress that constant mouse-use puts on your hands.

* He recommended those with bad backs to a specialist shop that deals with special office equipment. My boss, who had suffered with a bad back for years, switched his chair to what was essentially a spring on wheels, and his back got better every week. A few months later, he was playing football for the first time in years.

It's not strictly training, for a minimal amount of time he offered a service
that helped more people than a lot of standard office/workplace training. A
few years later, at my old workplace we brought a similar person in at my
recommendation, and the benefits were visible all over again. If you're a
manager, and you're thinking of getting some new equipment in, or are thinking
about health and safety, I definitely recommend this.

------
KineticLensman
Workplace training in general can obviously make a difference. My technical
skills have improved as a result of such training. Non-technical training has
also helped me not to kill people or end up in prison (e.g.relating to safety
cases for aerospace systems and legislative compliance). With respect to the
softer subjects you mention, the (albeit limited) training I've received
hasn't changed my own behaviours fundamentally, but has certainly made me
understand what to do when issues arise in the workplace (e.g. how to deal
with a colleague who is displaying inappropriate behaviours. I've had to deal
with this once).

Whether an app is the best way to provide such training is a different
question.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
_Whether an app is the best way to provide such training is a different
question_

This. I have received excellent workplace training, but never through an app.
Actual human instructors can do things that apps can't like discuss the
experiences of individuals in the class, or respond to questions about subtle
nuances in behavior.

Doing training via an app is IMO, a way for the company to check off that
you've been trained, whether or not it was useful. Online training is good for
those things that don't require much thought like fire safety or office
ergonomics. It's all but useless for things like harassment training.

------
mchannon
Unfortunately this type of training is like advertising- a good chunk of the
money spent on it is wasted, but they can never figure out where or how large
the percentage is (or needs to be). But we still have, and even live by,
advertising.

You can't say it never worked even once for a trainee. It probably works with
some of them. But for some it also kills productivity and incentivizes job
flight when your trainees could be working productively and enjoying their
jobs.

It's a bit like the death penalty- say for the sake of argument that having a
death penalty on the books, in locale X, deters 10% of all murders there. Is
10% enough to call it a deterrent or not?

In terms of my personal experience, I learned some things in the compulsory
sessions I've had to attend in various workplaces, but I don't suspect I'd
ever have been a problem to my employers without them. A few people I've sat
next to in this training still "offended" even after attending (or signing in
then leaving) the courses.

In the end, I suspect it's mostly a cost-saving CYA measure, which mitigates
damages when the company is inevitably taken to court ("You mean to say, Ms.
HR director, that you never created a mandatory training program, not even a
handbook?" "This is why, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client deserves
3x $50M instead of $50M, for the horrors he/she had to endure working at
company X")

~~~
yardie
> I don't suspect I'd ever have been a problem to my employers without them.

I mean you can honestly believe this and at the same time someone has a
completely different perception of you.

> for some it also kills productivity and incentivizes job flight

I've never heard of anyone leaving a job due to job training. I've heard and
seen plenty leave due to a lack of it.

~~~
mchannon
It's more than perception- if I had been called into unscheduled one-on-ones
with management about incidents that happened, even where I feel like I did
nothing wrong, that's a data point that matters. No one-on-ones after 25 years
in industry, at least related to what you'd get training for, is a data set
that you can rely on.

Imagine job training which is mandatory for staff but skipped by the upper-
level executives, when it was one of _their_ incidents that kicked off the
whole reaction. Also imagine it is conducted in a very haphazard, incompetent,
and counterproductive manner. One day a week for months, on all kinds of
topics. Your deliverables schedule is not reduced but rather accelerated to
make it even less enjoyable.

Anecdata is great, but those leaving (or avoiding) jobs that have that kind of
managerial incompetence don't answer the surveys as "too much job training"
even if that's what it was. There's no upside to making that your lead reason.

------
ronald_raygun
Yes - when I was at BigTechCo, we had training to basically not write legally
sensitive things in emails, and to schedule in person meetings with the right
people. This habit has stuck with me.

~~~
drc0
can you expand on what you mean for legally sensitive and what is the context
here?

~~~
toomuchtodo
Don’t create an unnecessary paper trail that will be found during discovery
and used against the company by opposition’s legal team.

~~~
hiccuphippo
Those chat services that delete(?) the messages after you hit a limit sound
more appealing now.

------
itronitron
I think that sexual harassment training makes a difference in most
organizations. All the training really needs to do is define terms (i.e.
harassment, assault) give examples of how they manifest, and tell the employee
what is tolerated and what they should do. That is the baseline and it
establishes the threshold for what is tolerated at the organization.

My only gripe with sexual harrassment training is that it focuses too much on
the subtle/annoying harassment stuff and doesn't prepare people for dealing
with an actual sexual assault.

------
arandr0x
I've had a generic harassment training, not specifically sexual, but one thing
I hate about all those trainings is how infantilizing they are. They all had
some "gamified" aspect to their horrendously simple multiple choice questions
(the answer is always "talk to HR"), they presented simplified situations with
no real shades of grey, and they assumed the employee had the intellectual
level of a five year old. I've heard about workplaces with real harassment,
I'm not sure why we can't use those examples instead of a scripted version
that wouldn't be out of place on a Saturday morning cartoon.

On a different tack, I am part of an allegedly marginalized group. I would
love if they replaced the infantilizing trainings with videos and podcasts
featuring people from my group talking about technology, talking about their
careers in technology, and dressed in a wide variety of professional attires
and not just what is stereotypical for my group. But then they'd have to do
that for every allegedly marginalized group and I'd spend half my week in
diversity training. So I'd prefer if they let me code. If my coworkers need to
be babied in order to not commit crimes on work premises, maybe they shouldn't
have been hired in the first place.

------
DEADBEEFC0FFEE
Absolutely, yes. I have received many different training courses and I
remember some and a few have changed my behavior.

Quality - be mindful and consistent about how dates, numbers are written and
records are kept.

Bullying - behavior may make other people feel uncomfotable in way I cannot
see.

Privacy - what PII data is and isn't.

Mental Health - don't joke about it, generally 10% of people are suffering.
Look for signs, come from care.

Information security - don't share creds, don't leave machines unlocked, be
mindful about what I click.

------
brentjanderson
I've been to sexual harassment training, sensitivity training, and some
management training retreats. I agree that some organizations may use them for
HR compliance or to defray lawsuits, but they can help. I found these
trainings helped me understand the impact of effective leadership. Although
not always the most interesting trainings, they can and do make a difference.

------
walshemj
Well I recently went to a conference on the subject of disabled work place
issues.

And the move to the social model of disability instead of the medical one was
an issue that I had not really considered and I found interesting - I am
disabled BTW (of the invisible kind)

------
PhasmaFelis
It might work for people who mean well but generally don't realize that their
behavior is not acceptable. I knew an Eastern European gentleman who
constantly complimented women on their appearances, whether or not they were
conventionally attractive ("No, no, you are not fat! You are _strong!_ "),
which makes me think he meant well, but it still came off as creepy and weird.

Of course that guy kept losing jobs for it. :-/ I don't know if he ever really
learned. So I dunno.

~~~
smilesnd
I had a similar situation on a bigger scale. I was once put on a project at a
bank where they had to hire more then 100 people in 2 months span. The
workforce ended up being made of 80% Chinese people. The best way to describe
there English would to say it was rough if they even actually spoke English.
They slowly started to pick up certain keywords like strong or efficient or
repeat the same sentence to answer questions that sound similar which would
sometime come out offensive. My recruiting agency solution to this problem was
to have them sign a contract every 2 weeks or so stating which words or
sentences they couldn't use any more, or have certain people train them new
sentences or words to use so they wouldn't repeatedly show up in reports. It
is one of the few training exercise I skip on the regular.

------
pkteison
I was once sent to a training where they suggested we consider that people
interact in four specific different ways and tailor interactions based on the
recipient. It has seemed useful in future interactions to have a few more
examples to draw from than generic "tailor your pitch" advice, but it's also
somewhat concerning when I think about it because it's company training which
is basically encouraging you to assume, bucket and stereotype.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
I've had multiple versions of training like that and I found it really useful.
It definitely helps me as a technical manager. A good instructor will tell you
that you only _start_ with stereotypes when you have no better information.
e.g., "engineers usually like it when you talk to them this way." But if you
know that Sally hates it, then you don't do that, you do this instead...

I think that training like this is especially good for engineers because we
tend to have a fixed way of interacting with people and often don't notice
when it doesn't work. Being taught specific ways to recognize that and tailor
your approach is very useful.

This actually is exactly one of those things that can't be taught by an app.
Only a real person will say "your tone is off-putting, try saying it this
way..."

------
gaius
One company I worked for was getting a lot of bomb threats so they sent a few
of us on a week long course on IEDs. That was probably the most interesting
workplace training I’ve done. A different company had Global Leadership Skills
training which was probably more in line with what you meant, that really
focused on different colloquialisms and how to avoid misunderstandings. They
had some examples of expensive mistakes that had been made.

------
FearNotDaniel
Yeah... once when I had a retail job as a student, they showed us this anti-
theft security video. I learned some very effective techniques on how to
recognize store detectives, how to get away with shoplifting, undetectable
ways to steal cash while working as a cashier etc etc... always made me wonder
if they actually had in increase in staff crime, after revealing to us young
innocents all the 'tricks of the trade'.

------
eldavido
I've been to several technical trainings, including one at my last company on
iOS, and some Goldman Sachs training on slang, their proprietary in-house
language. I got almost nothing out of either.

I don't think you can really learn how to code without just doing it. Someone
may say it's a "learning style" issue, but I've come to believe learning style
differences are overblown when teaching "method", e.g. cooking, dancing,
programming, drawing, how to play an instrument. You can read all day about
how to play a violin and still be garbage until you pick it up and play it.

------
ectospheno
Training generally falls into one of three bins:

1\. Legally required training. 2\. Training to prevent problems that have
actually occurred at this business. 3\. Training as a means of firing with
cause.

People learning something new is just a bonus.

------
vibrato
As far as I know the science on those kinds of trainings suggests they are
ineffective or actually produce the opposite of intended effect. I haven’t
dived deeply into the science but here’s a good start.
[https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/media/_m...](https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/media/_media/pdf/key_issues/organizations_policy.pdf)

~~~
cimmanom
I thought the latest was that done wrong they’re not just useless but
counterproductive; but that there are ways to do them right and have a
positive effect?

------
m0llusk
Working at a big company I got a manager who was not good with people so he
got management training and it helped a lot.

------
finaliteration
Not technical, but I was with a smaller company and we had two day offsite
trainings for some managers (one of which was me) that I found very rewarding
and impactful. Of course we were a more open and honest company than most so I
think that played a huge part in why it helped.

~~~
smilesnd
Was this management training or "how to be the best you" sort of training?

~~~
finaliteration
It was a combination. We had someone come in who tailored the training
specifically for our company. But it involved a lot of discussion between the
different managers about issues and challenges at the company. Some actual
problems were solved, which is something I think rarely comes out of these
types of things.

------
Bucephalus355
I’m in cybersecurity and recently had to go through employee-wide security
awareness training. It was great and well done. However there was nothing
forcing you to pay attention and you could skip through slides, so who knows
how effective.

~~~
olyjohn
Our security training vendor requires whitelisting multiple domains and the
installation of Adobe Flash. How do I trust a vendor whose implementation
requires poking more security holes in my systems?

~~~
Bucephalus355
A lot of security companies are like for-profit colleges. They aren’t at all
what they say, they’re incompetent, and they make the world a worst place.
Hopefully their time will end soon enough.

Just look at what Symantec did to Google for proof of that (sorry don’t have a
link, but, haha, just Google it).

------
dtx1
recently had a security basic seminar. "basic" in the sense that we learned
how to do all kinds of code injections and how to prevent them. Very useful

------
chad_strategic
Sergeant course, USMC. 2002

Neosho, Mo

Better than Boot Camp.

------
jacob9706
Short answer: No. Shitty people will be shitty people.

Longer answer: No 30 minute exercise is going to instill in someone that the
behavior they have had normalized throughout their entire life by those around
them is flawed. I mean have you ever tried to tell a C developer there are
alternatives?

~~~
KaoruAoiShiho
There probably are a lot of people who aren't aggressively shitty but just
inconsiderate of the feelings and disadvantages that other people have. I
imagine it would work for that group.

