
Cars and generational shift - jseliger
http://jseliger.com/2012/03/25/cars-and-generational-shift/
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orangecat
_The source of the unhappiness is not so much the commute itself as what it
deprives you of. When you are commuting by car, you are not hanging out with
the kids, sleeping with your spouse (or anyone else), playing soccer, watching
soccer, coaching soccer, arguing about politics, praying in a church, or
drinking in a bar. In short, you are not spending time with other people._

I don't think that's it exactly. The problem with driving, especially
commuting in traffic, is that it requires your constant attention but offers
little mental stimulation. It's a boring section of life that you can't zone
out and fast-forward through. Walking and biking are also (often) solitary,
but I'd expect that people enjoy them much more than driving.

~~~
polyfractal
Agreed about the "boring" aspect of commuting. If I have to commute, I prefer
to walk or take the subway because I can listen to podcasts or read a book.

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forrestthewoods
Living in Seattle a lot of my friend don't have cars. You don't _need_ one to
get around. The bus system will get you to and from work. They can walk or
ride a bike to the grocery store. In short, it's not preferable but it's
easily doable.

The issue I have with this stance is that not having a car is fully dependent
on friends having one! I feel like I'm subsidizing my friends because they
chose not to have a car, even though money has nothing to do with the
decision. (they make $100k+ working at Microsoft)

Want to play board games? It'll take them 2 hours to bus, so only if I can
give a ride. Want to see a movie? Sure, but the bus doesn't run late so only
if I can give a ride. Want to go hiking? Want to go snowboarding? Go to a
show? Get tickets for a sporting event? Can only do any of those things if I'm
willing to pick up and drop off my friend.

I do it of course because if I don't then I'll never see these friends. Maybe
it makes me an asshole but honestly I find it just a bit selfish if you brag
about having no car but constantly require rides from friends.

~~~
Tichy
That doesn't sound fair. My plan at least for weekend trips is to figure out a
practical way to rent a car. Should still be cheaper than owning one all the
time (being realistic about the number of times I really went on such trips).

Also the public transport system in your city seems to suck.

~~~
bunderbunder
_My plan at least for weekend trips is to figure out a practical way to rent a
car. Should still be cheaper than owning one all the time._

I'm shopping for cars right now. After 4 years of owning one, I've conceded
that that has not turned out to be the case. At least, not entirely - I've
found it isn't apples-to-oranges.

When I last owned a car, I bought it new. It was a fairly nice car, so of
course I was paying for comprehensive insurance. I also thought nothing of
driving it everywhere, making frequent weekend trips, driving out to the state
park to go mountain biking after work, etc. etc. I dumped a lot of money on
it, but much of that money was on what I have now come to view as unnecessary
luxury.

Having not owned a car for 4 years, I had gotten into the habit of walking or
taking the bus/train or riding my bike anywhere. I did have a membership to a
car sharing company, so I could rent a car by the hour whenever I needed one,
but I had gotten into the habit of only using it once every other month or so.
Trips out of the city, Chicago, could generally be made by rail (the commuter
rail system is extensive, and it's an Amtrak hub).

Then I moved to a different city, and a lot changed. The city's transit system
is quite good, but the inter-city transit isn't so good. Renting cars began to
happen much more frequently; we're doing it about once a month now. It also
became more expensive - this state does not require rental companies to
include the mandatory minimum coverage with rentals, and both non-owners'
insurance policies and the daily rate insurance offered by the rental
companies are priced exorbitantly.

So the new calculus is, owning a car can be quite a bit less expensive, under
certain conditions: The 'new' car is actually quite old, and has some dings
and dents, so it didn't cost much in the first place. And since it's not
beautiful anyway, there's not much call for paying for comprehensive
insurance. And we're walking, biking, and taking the bus in all the situations
where we would previously have walked, biked, or taken the bus - this car is
not for commuting, it's not for driving out to the mall, it's not for burning
gas (and money) just because I don't want to get rained on. It's for visiting
folks in other cities, and perhaps also for trips to Costco. Under this new
calculus, the break-even point should be only about 2 years out, assuming no
major repairs.

~~~
Tichy
I have actually never owned a car so I am not sure how much it costs. But I
think where I live insurances are quite high. I have read something like 200
to 300€ per month that a car costs (where initial price and expected duration
of ownership is factored in). I suppose if we were to take a trip every day of
the weekend, it might be a breakeven.

Also I admit that at lest when I was younger, it seems the kids who owned a
car were a bit more spontaneous. They take trips to the sea at a whim or
whatever.

Since I have not yet sorted out the renting thing, I can't say how easy it
would be to just jump into a rented car on a whim. I already ran into problems
trying to organize holidays, for example going most of the way by train and
renting a car at the destination train station. I had imagined there to be a
much better infrastructure than there really is. Hoping that will improve,
though.

I actually consider it a luxury that I don't need a car.

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_delirium
I think youth culture may have something to do with it as well, not just
commuting; especially since the original article based its statistics on the
rates of teenagers getting licenses, and I'd be surprised if those are
primarily based on commuting preferences. In my dad's generation, having a car
at 16 was socially a big boost, while I think it's just not as important
anymore for teenagers. There was a heydey of "teenage car cool" in American
culture with drive-in theaters and the like, and a long plateau where other
car-centric things (like suburban malls) were at the center of teenage social
life, but it's not clear that's (as) true anymore.

~~~
peter_l_downs

        > In my dad's generation, having a car at 16 was socially a big boost, while I think it's just not as important anymore for teenagers.
        > [...] other car-centric things (like suburban malls) were at the center of teenage social life, but it's not clear that's (as) true anymore.
    

I'm a teenager. For what it's worth, being able to drive is still important
for me and the majority of my peers. I think that you're right, teenage
culture has changed since your father's generation, but cars are still a huge
factor in teenage social life. Being able to drive is still important because
of what it allows: a huge amount of personal freedom.

EDIT: formatting

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eddy_chan
I really think the poster has missed one important difference between the baby
boomer generation and their kids. The baby boomers have gone through a period
of life where a car is absolutely necessity because they were raising families
whereas to people under 30 a car is an increasingly 'nice-to-have' that
affords personal freedom and social status both of which are becoming more
questionable. The abovementioned 'period of necessity' changes your view on
cars.

I'm almost 30 with a pregnant partner and I've watched my car usage steadily
increase over the last 12 months as my life is changing. I used to be a bike-
to-work, walk-to-buy-groceries sorta guy who spent a period only using
zipcars, taxis and public transport at necessary times and loved it. I really
wanted this life to continue but...

Throw having kids into the mix and all of a sudden you're visiting your own
elderly parents a lot more, going to the hospital regularly, and I'll bet the
car that as the kids are growing up they'll need ferrying to extra-curricular
activities, friends places and driving holidays become much more economical.
At first I tried to get by on a clunker but issues like your families safety
come to the fore and I caved and bought a brand new car.

It's just impossible to live close to everything. You'll have such a diverse
range of destinations and reasons to go to those places (a lot of times at
short notice which makes zipcar unappealing) that even if you take public
transport to work or walk/bike you'll still _depend_ on a car unless you live
somewhere as dense as Hong Kong, Tokyo or Manhattan

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rheide
Living in central London I do not need a car to get around. I commute to work
using the London Underground, and I have to say, it is the most unhappy time
of my day to be a part of that system. I've lived in Tokyo for five years and
have never been annoyed at public transport there, but after one year of
London I've had enough. I'd gladly move to an open and wide space where I
could get around by car. Unfortunately there is no such place in the UK (or
anywhere in Western Europe) that offers sufficient employment options. Cars,
public transport, it's a mixed blessing really.

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aspec00
We live in the "now" culture where everything is at our fingertips (at least
online). Yet the one place we truly need (or at least should) get offline is
when you are driving. Walking and biking also force you to get offline but you
receive something worthwhile in return - physical stimulation. I think our
generation is about efficiency and multi-tasking and driving (especially on
long, traffic-filled commutes), does not allow us to do what we do at all
other times.

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incongruity
Nowhere in all of this do I see enough real data. Sure, there are statistics
about purchases of _new cars_ in the atlantic story and how that's decreased
since a couple decades ago... Where's the data for used car sales?

Where are the alternative explanations? Demands for disposable income are
greater now, while actual earnings are lower. Student debt is at an all-time
high and must-have devices like laptop computers, smart-phones, etc. didn't
exist or didn't see the adoption rates that they do now. As for license rates
dropping – if you knew you couldn't afford to get a car, wouldn't you be less
motivated to get or renew your license?

Further, America is growing more and more urban in population distribution –
all of these things could conceivably roll in to a marked decrease in new car
purchases without saying that it's an outright u-turn in "car culture".

I may well be wrong, but the assumptions and unexplored alternatives make me
less than convinced.

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jostmey
The problem with owning a car is that it takes so much time just to maintain
it. Too many weekends have been spent taking my car to the mechanic, changing
the oil in the car, preparing it for bad weather, ect.

I own a car but I don't have time to actually use it. I will never be inclined
to spend a lot of money on one.

~~~
leoedin
Pretty much this. I own a car that I essentially inherited. The cost of it to
me in gas, insurance and tax is borderline unacceptable for the use I have for
it. I can't imagine spending significant amounts on a new car because I can't
see how the use it offers me would be worth it.

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jarek
I don't know if that's a generational shift, but I don't have a car, don't
want one, and actively look to live in places where I don't need one.

I like driving. I like power; I like going fast; I like cornering just right;
I like well-designed highways. But I can't imagine $200+ monthly loan payments
or regular maintenance or breakdowns or getting ripped off on insurance
because I am a male for the time being still under 25. If the vehicle I'm on
breaks down, _they bring in another one_. If I want more freedom, a nice bike
is the price of a beater car and a hell of a lot cheaper to run. If I want to
go out of town, bus or rentals or shares will do the job.

I don't know if that's generational. It seems common sense to me.

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bstewartnyc
I live the burbs and commute to the city by train - but out here I love my
car... I never need to drive in traffic.

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stcredzero
Community trumps commuting!

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jpdoctor
s/cars/houses/g

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sukuriant
I stand on the other side of this continuum. I'm 25 years old and I own a car.
I _love_ my car; and, I often enjoy driving. I will often drive just to drive,
even if this means being in relatively heavy traffic. Actually, I find that
point where heavy traffic isn't a deadlock to be an especially fun time to
drive because it hones my driving skills. I like feeling my car and being a
part of my car as it goes down the road. When I'm alone, I like the privacy
being in a car gives me as I can sing at the top of my lungs and no one has to
hear me when I'm driving at free-way speeds.

I'm even looking to the future where I can buy a new car that I'll be able to
use on race tracks and in rally races for my own personal enjoyment.

So, I like cars.

~~~
politician
> I find that point where heavy traffic isn't a deadlock to be an especially
> fun time to drive because it hones my driving skills. I like feeling my car
> and being a part of my car as it goes down the road.

For the well-being of the grumpy, late, and overworked commuters sharing the
same stretch of road, please consider taking an adventure driving class
instead of playing Need4Speed during rush hour.

~~~
sukuriant
You misunderstand me. I don't swerve between traffic at high speed, but I
consider experiencing all of those cars around me and being mindful of even
more things at the same time than normal while driving quite a bit of an
experience :)

Get to learn more about other driver's patterns on the road and all else so I
can react even faster before poor situations come up, etc.

Definitely a good concern, though.

