
Disneyland with the Death Penalty (1993) - kurren
http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html
======
narrator
I think the most interesting aspect of Singapore's government is they pay
government officials multimillion dollar salaries. This makes them very hard
to bribe. If you think about the size of the budgets government officials have
authority over compared to their salaries, the temptation to be bribed and
thus be dominated by corporate interests is overwhelming. In Singapore the
incentives are reversed. Any allegation of corruption risks a lost job. In
other countries they would get fired and go to work at the companies that
bribed them but in Singapore the private companies will have difficulty
competing with their government salary, not to mention the prestige that comes
with being a government official.

I would be in support of that being tried in the U.S, especially for senior
level positions. It would probably save money in the long run.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Bribery/favor system isn't usually for personal gain, its to pay for re-
election campaigns. That's why we have this incredibly complex and huge
political lobbyist system in the US.

Even someone worth millions can't personally pay out their own election
campaign or just may not want to waste their personal funds.

>I would be in support of that being tried in the U.S, especially for senior
level positions

Roughly 50% of Congress are millionaires with a median of about $3m. In other
words, they're all fairly well off as-is.

~~~
Florin_Andrei
> _pay for re-election campaigns_

In other words, the fact that the foundations of the political process depend
heavily on money is what spoils the whole thing. Nothing will get fixed as
long as that remains true.

Get money out of politics.

~~~
jmccree
So to preserve democracy, we must sacrifice freedom of speech?

~~~
Florin_Andrei
The belief that money is 'speech' is a modern form of collective delusion -
like the children's crusades back in the Dark Ages.

Later generations will look at it and will go "how was that even possible?"

~~~
yummyfajitas
You have freedom of the press. You just can't spend money on ink or paper.

If I didn't hear this so often in real life, I'd think it was a bad line in a
cheesy dystopian movie.

~~~
deciplex
I actually don't have a problem with newspapers printing whatever the hell
they want. However I do have a problem with it, when it's broadcast television
or radio which is explicitly (and necessarily) a government-mandated monopoly,
and to a lesser extent cable television which is in most cases an effective
monopoly due to various stupid policies at the federal, state, and municipal
levels of government. Assuming we eventually shitcan net-neutrality, I will
have the same reservations there, as well.

Basically, as long as there is no physical limit to the number of voices that
can be heard (as with broadcast television), and the barriers to entry are
reasonably low (unlike with cable television, and possibly internet in the
near future), then absolute freedom of speech works very well. Otherwise, all
you're left with is propaganda under cover of freedom of speech, and it
fucking sucks.

------
tait
Update: Disneyland With the Death Penalty, Revisited, 2012
[http://www.wired.com/2012/04/opinion-jeyaretnam-
disneyland-d...](http://www.wired.com/2012/04/opinion-jeyaretnam-disneyland-
death-penalty/all/)

~~~
kirsebaer
"We are mostly law abiding because we are afraid and repressed and we have no
choice, not because we are inherently well behaved or “good.” We’re not
Disneyland by a long shot but it is probably true to say that if George Orwell
and Philip Dick had an illegitimate child of a theme park, then this would be
it.

"Gibson was a visionary in that he saw clear through the hype to the
disturbing underbelly. It turns out our government doesn’t have the secret to
prosperity, and progress and they are clearing failing in technological
innovation and creativity. But others still believe in the hype and if the
PAP’s model for pseudo democracy takes off then new democracies everywhere are
in danger."

------
erickhill
Having grown up in Singapore for 3 years (first through third grade) I for one
was completely in love with the place. This was in the late 70s, however, and
some of the "dirt" still existed at that time. In fact, our flat (a 20-story
apartment building) was right next to a "kampung", which was a shanty tin-roof
village with chickens running this way and that, inhabited by very poor native
people. Their sole means of income, from what I remember, was by pulling
magnets out of TVs and radios and selling the magnets... to whom I have no
idea.

It's my understanding that none of those kampungs exist in Singapore any
longer, and I've often wondered where all of the people were sent.

~~~
VLM
"selling the magnets... to whom I have no idea"

In those pre ceramic supermagnet days those were probably alnico magnets
(aluminum, nickel, cobalt) and although you get $4/lb for scrap nickel you'll
only get $1/lb or so for alnico magnets from a scrap metal dealer, today.

Where you'd get your feedstock from is a complete mystery as the scam of
"recycling" by shipping used electronic to the 3rd world is pretty modern. If
you could get an infinite supply of gear (rejects returned to manufacturer?),
I don't think it would be a challenge to rip apart speakers of that time and
generate a roughly minimum wage income.

Nickel is really quite valuable. Prices always vary but a tenth the cost of
equal weight of silver is semi-stable-ish. Figure maybe a hundred times what
you'll get for scrap steel. Or maybe two or three times what you'll get for
copper. If there's precious metals, and semi-precious metals, I'd say nickel
is just one step below the semi-precious, like wanna-be precious metal.

------
austinz
There are a lot of valid concerns with regards to Singapore's excessive
central planning, governmental and social disapproval of nonconformity, etc.
But this piece really does sound like the perspective of a disappointed
poverty tourist. There is a huge difference between visiting filth and slums
and red-light districts and desperate people struggling to get by, and having
to live there all your life.

Singapore did a lot of things wrong, but part of the reason it is so
(unnervingly) clean and prosperous and ordered is because the government has
made an effort (not completely successful, and again perhaps with not all the
right methods) to provide the denizens of the country with places to live and
ways to make a decent living.

~~~
anon8418
All that is also possible because of stupidly cheap labor from Malaysia,
Indonesia, the Philippines, and India. Nearly every middle class household
here has their own maid. They are not treated that well...

Driving around Singapore you see trucks carrying loads of migrant workers
everywhere you go. When you first arrive its heartbreaking to see, but of
course one gets "used" to it over time.

I suppose Singapore > Qatar.

~~~
judk
This is similar to USA, but the slaves mostly stay in Asia and Latin Americs,
and their work is imported to USA.

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jacquesm
If you liked this, then you will probably like this one too (56 pages, so
it'll take you a while):

[http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass.html](http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass.html)

It's about the laying of an undersea fibre optic cable.

~~~
euroclydon
'96 article by Neal Stephenson. This should be interesting after just reading
Cryptonomicon which has a good bit on under-sea fiber.

~~~
pault
If I recall correctly it was written as part of his research for
Cryptonomicon.

------
neomech
Wow. I remember reading this in print when it was first published. I had just
gotten a dial up internet connection at home. 28.8 kb/s!!!! Now I'm typing
this on my phone. All lot has changed in 22 years.

~~~
icedchai
Hah. I almost wrote this exact same comment!!

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krick
It seems that it won't be news for anybody here, but it was for me as I never
heard of this article and didn't know who this Gibson guy is as well (I don't
like science fiction), but the article appears to be so influential that there
even is wikipedia article about that with quite interesting details:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Penal...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Penalty)

I wonder how relevant all that stuff is today.

~~~
jacquesm
Gah, I'm really jealous! Just to be able to read all those books all over
again with a fresh eye.

Find a copy of Neuromancer if you can & enjoy!

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twosheep
Wow this is from the fourth issue of Wired.

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a_bonobo
The fun thing is how you can "date" this great essay to pre-2000 since it
includes ";-)" instead of the more modern ";)", has anyone ever looked at the
development of the use of emoticons over time?

~~~
jonathantm
I don't use the nose, but I have taken to adding a space between the eyes and
the mouth so that skype or facebook - or whatever other horrible chat service
I'm using - don't transform it from text to their godawful cutesy images.

$0.02

~~~
geon
I hate when I type :P and it comes out as a _smiling_ face with the tongue
out. The vertical line in the P is straight...

~~~
eitland
Skype is the worst offender I know of: It even jiggles the smileys.

Now you can turn this off locally but people receiving them will still think
you are childish : )

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mrbill
Re-reading this article makes me think of a scifi short story that I read a
while back that I can't remember the name of.

I thought it was by Bruce Sterling but apparently not. About a guy who went to
(Dubai?) to reprogram some "ancient" assembly-line robots, and had trouble
because access to the "net" was highly controlled, and he needed to get
documentation. He hacked into a payphone, only to find that there was a lively
"underground" scene on the net, and some of the royalty he had encountered was
active on it.

Surely someone can remember the name/author..

~~~
mrbill
Ah, it WAS Sterling; "Green Days in Brunei" from the "Crystal Express" story
collection.

[http://www.e-reading.link/chapter.php/71789/6/Sterling_-
_Cry...](http://www.e-reading.link/chapter.php/71789/6/Sterling_-
_Crystal_Express.html)

------
radicaledward
This is an excellent read! It is also included in Gibson's collection of non
fiction writing - Distrust That Particular Flavor, which I highly recommend.

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paulsutter
The death penalty is a longstanding tradition at both Disneyland (in
California) and Disney World (Florida), so how is this title so shocking?

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ojosilva
This is so in line with French philosopher Baudrillard and his discourse on
hyperreality. Baudrillard also mentions Disneyland in his work (can't recall
in which one). Many of his ideas are tightly related to the Matrix saga and,
to some extent, Neuromancer.

------
olalonde
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1845918](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1845918)

