
Don’t go to art school (2013) - Tomte
https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/dont-go-to-art-school-138c5efd45e9#.87guodhbv
======
justinator
I graduated from art school.

I didn't go to art school to pursue a career in art. The art school I went to
basically said, "don't" \- it's a lottery anyways. The people who can make a
living as an artist are a few dozen worldwide.

I went to art school to think laterally and critically. I went to have my own
ideas of what creativity is exhaustively challenged.

You can also go to art school to make those social connections to the larger
art world - the art world is nothing but a huge web of social ties. I found
that part of it pretty dark and disgusting, really. I just wasn't willing to
stab so many people in the back to get ahead.

My curriculum was not centered around skills and technique - you were to learn
that yourself. It was centered around your ideas - get your ideas out of your
head and onto a stage basically. The school and my program were influenced by
the Black Mountain school in N. Carolina where individuals like B. Fuller,
Merce Cunningham, and John Cage taught. Interdisciplinary. It was all a living
experiment, and all my higher level courses had, "Experimental" in their name.

I don't regret one second of art school. You get out what you get in. I still
would never, ever pursue a career as an artist. I've done lots of creatively
amazing projects, but it wasn't for the money - this country I live in (USA)
at least really doesn't find monetary value in the arts.

~~~
WhitneyLand
I think your advice sounds great for people living in a Star Trek utopia where
people only work to better themselves.

However in our present time, how many people can seriously consider going to
college without careful thought to how it will relate to their career?

I'd love to go to art school but not be an artist. While I'm at it, I'd also
like to earn graduate degrees in history, literature, and philosophy (might
help my lateral thinking).

~~~
matt4077
If I understand it correctly, the US is actually the perfect system to go to
an art school and still make a career in a traditional field: You can still go
to law school or HBS.

Many people suffer from "premature optimization", trying to do business-
related stuff because they see McKinsey in their future. I've met quite a few
people from those global consultancies, and they actively encourage people to
study theology or modern french literature.

And don't get me started on parents asking for their children's middle schools
to "focus on accounting, not these useless languages"...

~~~
gtaylor
If you go that route, you'd better not fail. The debt would be crushing.

~~~
orbifold
Easy solution: Your parents are well off. Then a lot of those choices are less
dramatic.

~~~
zachrose
Easier solution for most: go to a not-insanely-priced in-state public
university.

------
Jade_Jet
I went to art school and dropped out. In high school I had immense pressure
from my guidance counselors to go to art school, specifically a private one.
What I was told was that if I didn't go to college and get a degree I would be
working fast food the rest of my life. Being a dumb 17 year old who had no
concept of debt, I listened, I gave into their scare tactics and went.

After my first year, I felt like I was wasting my time. Gen eds were at the
level of what I learned in 8th grade and art class grading was completely
opinionated and based on what type of art the teacher liked. I hated it and
wanted to drop out. But fear of failure and a realization of what debt really
was kept me locked into going to college.

I scraped by my second year while becoming more and more jaded. I felt lied to
and swindled out of my money and future. I ended up finally dropping out when
the realization that I really was wasting my time took over.

I spent a lot of time with computers on my own and taught myself how systems
work for a few years while I worked multiple dead end jobs to scrape by and
attempt to pay off my debt. Eventually I managed to land myself a jr sysadmin
at a company which saved me from drowning. Now I work as a full fledged
infrastructure engineer making a very satisfying amount of money and working
on an extremely interesting set of problems. I'm actually happy now.

Art school hurt me horribly. I had to dig myself out of a massive hole with
sheer willpower and determination alone.

Screw art school.

------
sean_patel
My father went to Art School in India, and despite being an incredibly gifted
documentary photographer -- he even won a Magnum Photos Prize in India for his
works on the Indo-Pak War in 72--, he bared scraped by. Eventually he ended up
working at night to take the GRE, TOEFL Exams and came to America to get his
Bachelors in Engineering.

Right from childhood (I was born in America), he groomed me to be an Engineer
also, despite seeing a talent in me also for art (fine arts) and sports
(basketball). I was angry (at him) as a child, but now, I am very grateful.

What lot of these articles also fail to mention, is that a "Career in Art" is
mostly scrapping by for 90%+ of the graduates. We only see the top 10% or so
and think it's great money, fame etc etc. They also fail to mention that
during economic downturns (think recession every 8 to 10 years) the 1st thing
that consumers will cut back on, is in the art, luxury area. So even very
successful painters, artists will see drastically reduced income during these
times.

------
Matachines
We're gonna need a culture shift away from "higher education" being the only
option for middle class kids. Go to any middle/upper middle class suburb and
tell parents their kid doesn't need to go to college and you'll get laughed
at.

~~~
M_Grey
That won't happen unless "higher education" stops being a highly profitable
enterprise for those selling it.

~~~
dexterdog
But how can it be profitable? They are non-profit institutions.

~~~
zanny
A business need not be corporate-profitable to pay its management lavishly.
The university may not have shareholders or a dividend but that just means all
the money it makes has to go somewhere, and that is often inflated salaries
for the highest echelons of the school.

~~~
M_Grey
Don't forget power and influence.

Besides, there is also multi-billion dollar world of for-profit education.

------
noahbradley
Guy-who-wrote-this (and often lurker) here. Lemme know if y'all have any
questions or anything—this is still a subject I'm rather passionate about.

~~~
rem7
Another thing to add to your $10k education list, look at all the art classes
in community colleges around the big expensive private art schools.

I got my BFA from a pricy private art school in LA. We were paying about $1250
a credit. The same teachers were also teaching at Santa Monica college for
about $21 a credit. I was furious when I found out. I wish I would have known
about that. So I suggest going to that prestigious school you want to go. Look
up the classes and teachers, they might be teaching somewhere else for
cheaper.

~~~
jcl
Likewise, if you're just interested in learning the material, check out
alternatives at the big expensive art schools themselves. For example, RISD
offers 2-year certificate programs for about $10k. They're composed of
community education classes, but they're taught by RISD instructors in RISD
classrooms, and as far as I can tell are equivalent to the corresponding
courses taught during the day. The catch, of course, is that you don't have
access to the full range of courses, and that you don't get to say "BFA" or
"MFA" on your resume at the end -- although you can still say "RISD". :)

[http://ce.risd.edu/pages/certificate-programs-for-
adults](http://ce.risd.edu/pages/certificate-programs-for-adults)

------
M_Grey
The entire world of profiting from education, and from predatory loans for
education is locked into a desperate feedback loop that's killing us. Of
course, the alternatives involve the kinds of "big government" that have been
so ideologically loathsome to many from the 80's on.

~~~
shams93
Ironically back in the 80s it cost around $75/year for UC. I went to UC in
1990, say tuition go from $375/year to $20,000/year by 1995. The changes Bush
and Clinton made in the 90s enabled this situation where schools on the one
hand lost state subsidies and on the other hand you saw the radical
financialization where it became the norm to suddenly be 22 years old and in 6
figures of debt.

~~~
ZanyProgrammer
Ah Bill Clinton, that famous governor of California in the 80s and 90s!

~~~
hueving
The problem impacted all of the schools in the US in the 90s. As a national
issue, the governor of California had nothing to do with that.

~~~
ZanyProgrammer
The sharp rise in tuition in UC schools was a result of a national issue?

~~~
hueving
Yes, this tuition spike happened everywhere in the US due to the availability
of student loans for everyone who had a pulse at effectively any asking price.
All of the universities had absolutely no incentive to cap tuition increases
because everyone could always pay.

~~~
ZanyProgrammer
That conveniently ignores state subsidies to the UC system, and dare I say it
is pretty ideological.

------
smonff
In France, art school are free. Wait... The costs are paid by the state! The
costs for education that you mention are sick. It would cost Americans less to
relocate to Europe and they could eat good cheese.

~~~
nemo44x
There's lots of great cheese made in the USA. In fact one of them just won the
"World Championship" in cheese:

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wisconsin-cheese-
world-c...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wisconsin-cheese-world-
championship_us_56e2d4a5e4b065e2e3d59576)

Food in America has gone through a revolution in the last 20 or so years.
American beer used to be considered awful and now is considered the best, most
innovative and most complex by many people around the world. Our wines used to
be considered awful until the 1980's and now many of them are respected and
globally accepted as great.

New American Cuisine and it's offsprings have eclipsed French cooking in many
respects. Although it owes so much to French cooking to be fair.

Yes, university is disgustingly expensive here, however.

~~~
vacri
My experience is dating a bit, but in 2009 I spent 3 months crossing the US as
a tourist. My experience with the food was that you could get crap for next to
nothing, or really good food at a premium. There seemed to be no middle
ground; 'normal' food at a 'normal' price.

My first interaction with American food was on landing in LA - on arriving at
the place I was staying, I started making a sandwich with some "healthy (check
mark) wholemeal bread". I put a slice in my mouth while I was making the
sandwich (I was that hungry and couldn't wait), and it was like biting into a
slice of cake, flavour-wise. There was so much sugar in this 'healthy
wholemeal' slice...

~~~
nemo44x
After WW2 the USA figured out how to industrialize and process food. We took
the model used to feed soldiers and converted it into something for everyday
people in the home. The advertising to support this painted the kitchen as a
bleak, difficult place where failure was imminent. Instead of being a place of
joy and culture it was a disaster waiting to happen. The new alternative was
to buy these processed foods as they were guaranteed to work and were
convenient. In the 1950's it did in fact probably seem really innovative and
novel.

This model was highly successful as it brought down prices, increased profits
and liberated women from the kitchen. As more and more people didn't have the
time to shop for good food and cook it this processed food industry got larger
and larger until it became the dominant food culture in the country. Think of
an America food store today and the entire middle of it is all processed foods
in boxes, cans, refrigerated and any other form.

In the 1970's it became even simpler with the promise of "we'll cook it for
you" and the fast food restaurant was born. These restaurants use the same
processing techniques but also have the ability to have some industrial
kitchen equipment to make the food taste less "TV Dinner" like.

The problem with all of this is these foods are not only filled with tons of
chemicals and other agents but they're packed with salt and sugar. The foods
also aren't prepared right.

To you point of bread: Bread was industrialized and processed. If you look at
a loaf of bread and read the ingredients you'll see 25 or more things in it!
They even were able to breed yeast which could make the bread rise faster
which actually is bad as the gluten doesn't develop correctly this way. This
isn't bread - it's like you described and it is awful. Using a sour dough
culture and making real bread was replaced with this.

It's no wonder we have so many people who claim to have a gluten allergy
today. This never happened before and it's because of the way the food made
and what is in it. It's no wonder we have kids with type 2 diabetes. It's no
wonder people have digestive and heart issues at a rate much higher than ever
before.

So yeah to get away from that there's a "slow food" movement and "organic" and
all the other labels. What's funny is this is what the rest of the world
called "cooking" for thousands of years. We are only now discovering this at
large levels here. But lets face it, it isn't like industrialized food is
going away. In fact it's growing. We've outsourced cooking and this is the
result. And the cost of ingredients has risen where as fast food has gotten
cheaper over the last 30 years, adjusted for inflation. And there's the gap
you're talking about.

But this is creeping across the world. Europe has had a big taste of this and
it's growing quickly. Places like India now are changing this way too. What's
in those boxes will just be adapted to local pallets.

It's really a destruction of cultures I believe.

------
mirekrusin
Interesting, for for ~$250k (or ~400k if you do it via loan and include
repayment cost) you can buy a nice house to your kid instead of burning that
on 4y pseudo education.

Knowledge (from best universities as well) is free nowadays. I'm sure for 4y
in solitude of your own house and internet knowledge you can advance your
skills a lot.

~~~
sabujp
Depends on what you really want to do. If you want to be a life sciences
researcher then you need all the expensive equipment that only institutions
can afford.

~~~
mysterypie
But you can't play with all that expensive equipment until you get to _at
least_ the graduate level. Take chemistry for example. For your entire
undergraduate degree you're doing strictly cookbook procedures in the lab.
Other than a bit of technique, everything you learn in undergraduate labwork
you could have learned from a book.

Try going to the lab instructor and asking him or her if you can come back
later at night to run some of your own experiments. You'll get a hearty laugh.

The expensive equipment becomes an argument in favor of a traditional
education only after you get to the post-grad level when you have real access
to that equipment.

~~~
Fomite
"But you can't play with all that expensive equipment until you get to at
least the graduate level."

This will come as a surprise to the expensive equipment I used as an
undergrad.

~~~
mysterypie
Did you design and run your own _independent_ experiments as an undergrad? Or
did you do assigned and supervised lab work following exact procedures from an
exercise book in a group setting with a lab instructor watching over you, and
you had to be done and out within 2-3 hours?

~~~
Fomite
I ran my own independent experiments, usually designed to help a graduate
student with one of his projects, and was then left to my own devices. If it
was done in 2-3 hours, it was because the cultures needed to incubate
overnight anyway.

I did group lab work with an instructor as well, but my university had a
pretty vibrant undergraduate research program.

------
atemerev
Law schools and medical schools are expensive, because lawyers and doctors (at
least in the US) can expect to have good money afterwards.

On the other hand, art schools or, say, a degree in English poetry are
expensive because those are luxury goods. Those are favored by rich people who
never have to work a single day in their lives, but they want to be art
connoisseurs.

Pursuing an art degree if you have to work for a living later is dubious, to
say the least. Taking a huge debt forward it is pure, undiluted madness.

------
aczerepinski
In music it may even be worse, because the top conservatories award a good
number of full scholarships. A high percentage of the students who go on to
have successful careers are already great when they arrive, full scholarship
in hand.

In many cases, the demographic that actually pays the sky high tuition isn't
getting the best version of the school. They aren't in the elite ensembles or
the advanced courses with famous teachers. Launching a successful career from
that starting point is even more difficult, debt aside.

------
cleandreams
I have been a working writer as well as a software engineer. I have been a
broke poet and fiction writer (for years) and a senior level engineer (for
years). I get to be a homeowner because of the software skills and I sent my
kid to a good college. Overall I have moved back and forth. I've had 4 books
published and I've had some really exciting tech jobs. So I have a 'both
sides' perspective.

I have a computer science degree, not a writing degree. If I had gotten an
MFA, I might have been able to get a teaching job in creative writing, but the
the lit world is more status conscious so I would have had to go to a great
school, say Brown, or the like. My CSC degree is from a state university and
it has gotten me into top companies and start ups. I did not have to go into
debt for my incredibly useful degree.

I think the tech world is actually more decent, fair, and respectful than the
creative arts world. The rank exploitation of low paid writers (including the
adjunct jobs most get) is truly awful. The level of personal sabotage and
jealousy in the creative arts world, where there is not enough to go around,
is disheartening to experience. My artsy friends are high horse about the tech
bros but they need to be more mindful of the practices in their own back yard
- which are worse, in my informed opinion.

If you want an art career you have to plan strategically. You have to go to a
great school for an MFA, one that has buzz (e.g. Yale), and you have to
network like crazy (there are ways of describing that that will get my post
blocked), and you have to be a bit cunning, and you have to have family
resources. Oh, you also have to get that MFA right away out of college,
because the art world grooves on youth. Possibly for years and years you'll
have to work hard without any idea if it will get you anywhere, although the
more years go by, the more your chances dwindle. You also need to always be
doing self-promotion. It's endless and I can't stand it. I am in that respect
a typical engineer and thinking in these ways is unpleasant.

One of the weird things about the art world is that it requires so much money
to get a career that rich kids are very over-represented. Young people from
all over the world make it - there's lots of cultural diversity, but the other
kind, the economic kind, not so much. It's creepy. I think of that every time
I see another movie star kid who is making a movie. It's not cool people. It's
disgusting.

But my overall message for all you tech geeks is that if you want to be an
artist too, you can be. Go for it, be the best you can be, take it seriously,
etc. Just realize it is not only hard but somewhat horrible. I have actually
had some success and truly it made me love computer science even more.

------
tgarma1234
Well I can't see that suggestion resulting in a gallery show for anyone who
follows that advice. If you are an outsider, how would you ever get into
legitimate galleries to show your work? Never happens because your school
background is extremely important there, much like how it is true that anyone
on earth can write a Novel but it is extremely unlikely you will find a
publisher without being in a top writing school.

~~~
oct29_goat
If you're not in a top writing school - you submit your novel to a publisher
and it sits in the slush pile for a few months. You write another novel while
you're waiting. When you get the rejection slip, you submit your second novel,
and you submit the rejected novel to a different publisher. While waiting for
the next round of rejections, you write your third novel. Eventually you get
something published. Until then you keep writing and mooching off your spouse.

If you ARE in a top writing school... well... you do EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
Not necessarily. If you know people, they would be willing to agent your work
to represent it to larger publishing companies that only take agented work.
Then you have a much higher chance of being accepted before you write another
novel and then it's simply a matter of giving your latest manuscript to your
editor and seeing what they say.

------
mephistoschmalz
This is sorta unrelated, but related to engineering.

On my first day in college, the Dean of my Aerospace Engineering program and
two other people came into my first huge classroom and said, "there are too
many people in this program. Aerospace companies will not hire you. They will
hire Electrical Engineers and Mechanical Engineers before they will hire you.
If you have a chance, transfer to another program."

They were probably right. I transferred after a semester. Most of the people I
know who graduated in Aerospace Engineering ended up writing software (without
much training.)

I know people (very closely) who still have crushing debt from art school. And
engineering school who can't pass the Professional Engineer test. And law
school who can't pass the bar after multiple tries. I studied Electrical
Engineering but now I just write software, which was probably my first love.

I can't recommend anything to you, but this article resonated with my
experience. If you're really good, go for that thing. Don't pay someone a lot
to tell you what you're already good at.

------
legodt
The tragedy of unaffordable art school cuts even deeper than the scope of this
article. It's really sad, more and more art school is a playground of the
wealthy leisure class, leading to a smaller pool of outsider perspectives and
new ideas. Hopefully things will change within these institutions, but until
then, as the author states, the internet is quite good for basic instruction.
You still can't replace the value of group critique, building relationships
with your instructions, and networking- but that isn't exactly worth a quarter
of a million dollars either.

------
kosma
The title of this article should be "Don't go to art school in USA". The rest
of the world has it different.

~~~
hueving
I.e. "don't pay for art school yourself"

------
tommynicholas
Two pieces of advice:

1\. Value optionality. $300k in debt takes too many options off the table,
$50k not so much.

2\. College, even (and in some cases especially) art school, is extremely
valuable and increases optionality. consider Virginia Commonwealth University.
It's a cheap, public school with one of the best and most functional programs
in the country. Especially if you're in Virginia, take a look.

------
devrieda
I graduated from art school and am now a software engineer. I went because
when you're really good at drawing in high school--everyone tells you that you
should be an artist, regardless of what else you may be good at.

I believe my degree was worth it. If you want to learn technical skills, this
article is spot on and has some great advice. There are some great resources
he gives for learning this stuff fairly cheap.

What I learned in art school was critical thinking, problem solving,
perception, and observation. The most important things you get out of art
school that are applicable to software:

1\. How to critique work and talk about your work with others. Most studio
classes are basically just a long critique of everyone's work. I use these
skills everyday in software in code reviews and in my role as a manager
mentoring others.

2\. Problem solving. We regularly had assignments like "Draw a sequence of
images defining density" or "Create a sculpture that defines the space between
an architectural space and your body" or "Create an invention and build it
with only brown paper lunch bags." It takes some novel thinking to come up
with creative solutions to that shit.

3\. How to deliver. You need to get stuff done and produce a volume of work to
get good.

Of the good friends I had in art school:

\- One is a paper sculptor and has made work for Facebook, Apple, Google, the
Queen of Jordan, and has been a guest on Sesame Street. He also works with
research scientists on solar cell development. \- One has been the visual
effects supervisor for the Harry Potter films, the Dark Knight, and Star Trek
Beyond. \- One is the director of a glass blowing school. \- One is a
executive creative director at a large design agency.

I would guess that every one of them would attribute part of their success to
the art school they attended.

------
exodust
Or just come to Australia where a three year fine arts degree can be found for
about AU 12 grand per year. Fees will vary depending on the Uni.

Australian students pay less because the government contributes some of the
cost. We might pay 10 grand per year instead of 12 in above example.

I regret studying a BA at age 18. The internet wasnt quite around yet and I
just didnt care about anything. I went to Art School after the BA and have no
regrets. Art School is an awesome thing to do in your early twenties. Its
where I figured out a few very important things.

Online resources are amazing now but its important to have that human
interaction life experience when formulating your creative foundations.
Mingling with other students and lecturers is to mingle with ideas and
opportunities.

------
alvern
We as a society need a different post-secondary experience.

I went to art school at a state university. Ended up with a BFA in studio art.
When I get my background check pulled it just says BFA from STATE UNIVERSITY
2011. It doesn't say it was in art. After that I went to a tech school for a
semester and started working in manufacturing. Having my BFA was critical in
jumping through the HR loop to get to my current position of analyst.

My department hires with a bias towards fresh graduates with engineering
degrees. These workers are great for 6-18 months but they always leave for
greener pastures. I keep getting raises to stay were I am. Out of the degrees
that the long term coworkers hold, most are in physics, mathematics, or
criminology.

------
Kenji
Of course, the state incentivises this scam by giving massive loans to young
people who cannot even comprehend what they're doing until it's too late.

~~~
mwfunk
I don't completely disagree, but who is at fault there? Most people are >= 18
when they go to college. They're adults, and parents are usually also involved
in planning how to finance their children's college education. If they're not
going into it with total knowledge at that point, then what should the
threshold be for when people are qualified to make their own life decisions?
When they're 30 and already self-sufficient? If anything, the government
should be more restrained about giving out student loans to protect itself and
to protect taxpayers, not to protect adults with poor judgement from
themselves. I think much more can be done WRT making sure students understand
what they're getting into, but it's not a black and white issue.

~~~
MaulingMonkey
> I don't completely disagree, but who is at fault there? Most people are >=
> 18 when they go to college. They're adults,

In many jurisdictions 18 is still considered too young to drink, buy
cigarettes, etc. - likely too young to have lived on their own or practiced
much self-sufficiency. Being an adult isn't that binary - it's more a set of
skills and responsibilities that build up.

As currently stands, large amounts of non-dischargeable student debt seems to
be one of those things where the latter is suddenly cranked up to 11? Seems a
bit harsh. Although perhaps less harsh than it initially sounds with income
based repayment options...

Ahh - perhaps less interesting than the question of fault, is "who can
reasonably and effectively do something about it".

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. IMO 18 is _much_ too young to
understand the consequences of huge student debt, especially when there's so
much cultural pressure to be a student.

There are similar scams in writing, where MFAs have become increasingly
expensive and less and less likely to be a good investment.

There's no benign motivation here. It's simple greed by the loan shark
companies and university administrators.

More civilised countries understand that a pool of self-supporting graduates
is a relatively cheap investment with huge social and economic benefits.

US culture still seems to be spinning around "Why should my taxes pay for your
education?" \- which is a naive question that many countries worked out the
answer to more than half a century ago.

~~~
projektir
It's more that age doesn't actually impart you any kind of wisdom on its own.
A lot of people grow up in misinformation and no amount of years can make up
for it. The concepts of adulthood and maturity are not real beyond the
biological definitions.

------
jknoepfler
I'm increasingly confused by college education discussions. ~$200k+ is a
serious, life-changing investment for most people. Bankrolling more than a
fraction of that with loans with no plan to make a return on investment (a
salary, generally) doesn't even start to make sense. Normally I don't struggle
to replace words like "stupid" with something more descriptive, but here I
find myself struggling (indicating that I must have a blind spot here). If
you're wealthy, who cares, its discretionary income and you should make use of
your privilege. If you're not three standard-deviations from the mean in terms
of personal or family wealth though, why does this conversation even need to
happen? Like at all? Borrowing money without a repayment plan to buy something
that isn't worth very much seems self-destructive to the point that if we
think buying/selling heroin should be illegal (I don't, but w/e), we should
definitely think buying/selling massive crippling debt should be illegal.

For contrast, here's a sane decision: I recently went back to school at 28 to
get a B.S. in Computer Science. I bankrolled the degree with a combination of
savings, a loan from my mother, and a federal loan. Going back and getting a
second degree was a calculated (and in hindsight very good) investment. I put
myself around $30k underwater all told, out of the $60k odd required to earn
the degree and live for three years in Minneapolis. Before sinking money and
opportunity cost into a degree, I worked the math out, computed an expected
salary range upon graduation, and said "this is a good investment." I worked
my ass off (I worked throughout to keep costs down and to get experience as a
junior engineer) and made it work.

The outcome doesn't really matter, but as it happens I was fortunate and
landed well above what I thought my expected salary range would be, then got
promoted 18 months in to a compensation level I personally think is obscene (I
figured I'd be in the 55-80k range, out of college I landed in the 120k range
with a move to another state, now I'm in the 180k range total comp). The loans
were paid off from remaining savings and the signing bonus for the job.

What I did is an option for most people. It requires nothing more than common
sense and some calculated risk-taking.

And p.s., as someone who spent their 20's dealing with some pretty crippling
mental health issues and generally avoiding reality for the better part of a
decade, you don't need to get a fucking college degree when you're 22
(although if you know what you're doing, go for it!). Stay smart, read books,
keep up with basic problem solving, take a community college math course or
two (take calc 3 or physics 2 or whatever), learn to program, and keep
yourself employed. Invest in knowledge and experience, shed your ego, and
learn to be a person who makes things and improves the world around them.
Don't dilly-dally around with this clueless fake-school b.s.

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firefoxd
I recommend everyone to go to art school. Unless you have to take a loan to do
it.

I have many artsy friends that make few hundreds of dollars per gig, and are
tens of thousands of dollars in debts.

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CamperBob2
He left out, "Watch all the Bob Ross videos on YouTube."

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pencil_in_hand
The Watts Atelier that Noah mentions also has a great online program with
instructor feedback. I've been doing it for about a year now and all I can say
is that for $200 a month it's a steal.

It's a shame that art schools are in the state they're in. Where I'm from
(South Africa) the tuition fees aren't too bad, however, the training you
receive doesn't cultivate any skill (it's mostly contemporary/conceptually
driven). Thank goodness for the web!

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seanmcdirmid
Art schools these days also include design programs, and designers are
actually in demand so you can make a career out of that, if you wish. RSID,
for example, has a strong visual, graphical, and interaction design programs.
Ya, design isn't art, not even close, but if its your thing, you shouldn't
avoid art schools just because they also teach art.

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oli5679
These is a clear and balanced assessment of the pros and cons of pursuing a
career in the arts:

[https://80000hours.org/career-reviews/pursuing-fame-in-
art-a...](https://80000hours.org/career-reviews/pursuing-fame-in-art-and-
entertainment/)

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dirtbox
I graduated from art school and went on to do commercial illustration, design,
3D work for TV commercials, then movies and ultimately the games industry.

I'm not saying the qualification helped, but the guidance and time to shape
and hone me as an artist was invaluable.

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partycoder
It is sad to hear this. As arts are a form of expression, and their
appreciation makes us more open minded and connected.

Having said this... You can also study abroad. There are other countries, with
universities in term, you don't have to pay that much you know.

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eternalban
tldr: Don't go to, like, RISD unless you are a trust fund baby.

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godmodus
$245,816 for a degree is damn cruel. tuition costs are probably one of the top
causes of stagnation - i'm sure most people do learn something worth while...
but damn!

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jkereako
My wife went to what she calls a semi-atelier school. It was tiny. She
graduated with 24 students. One her classmates and long-time friends went on
to his MFA at Yale.

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keyle
I thought what the author really meant to say is, don't go to art school, in
the US.

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castroliu
Wonderful! I wonder if there was the same plan schedule for computer science
like this.

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zappo2938
If only Hitler had read this.

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feborges
don't you wonder why kids so close to you across the canadian border don't
have these problems/dilemas at all?

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JoeAltmaier
tl;dr: some schools are very expensive

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Pulce
This is all you need for being a creative human being:
[http://www.venditacasette.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/07/Cas...](http://www.venditacasette.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/07/Casette_in_legno13369868964fb0cd102a5f8.jpg)

