

Why We’re Traveling - gkoberger
http://phileasandblogg.com/why-were-traveling/

======
JimboOmega
I don't think children alone are the problem - switching countries often means
leaving behind your entire social network. From the guys you go out drinking
with to the person who cuts your hair, you have to build this all over again.

It can be fun, but it can also be isolating. It's tough to meet new friends,
especially in a foreign culture, where your common cultural threads - sports
you grew up watching, foods you grew up eating, languages you speak - don't
overlap.

For some people this is a great opportunity to meet and learn about all sorts
of things, and it can be, until you're tired, sick, or stressed - and just
want the voice of a familiar friend.

Moving every 3 months means this problem is only amplified - you'll never
really feel tied to whatever place you've moved to. Making real friends,
learning the language... why bother, if you're just going to be somewhere new
in a few months?

The other thing I dislike about this article is the "advice from rich people"
tone it strikes. I've seen a lot of these kind of articles - "I made this
successful business and then I realized I can just travel the world doing
nothing". I suppose Tim Ferris started it, but he's not the only one.

The point being you have to have a certain amount of financial resources
before you can do this kind of thing.

Now nothing in the article says they are rich (and they do point out CR is
cheaper). But before you can do something like this, if you have any sense,
you've either got enough money in the bank or enough business already planned
to cover all the changes - relocations and all. You know that it will be an
international flight to meet almost any client, and that's not really a
problem.

I really think that - especially in the youthful zeitgeist, "conspicuous
consumerism" as we once knew it (IE, at its zenith in the 80's) is dead. So
let's stop acting like the only reason people live a frenetic life of work
hard/play hard in the city is all about building up money to be better than
their peers, and if only we had a little more perspective we could realize we
could live relaxing, fulfilling lives on a tropical beach working a few hours
a week.

~~~
gkoberger
Lots of interesting points -- but for what it's worth, I'm the founder and I'm
certainly not a "rich person". I'm a designer/developer living in Silicon
Valley who wanted to experiment with new ways to build a company with the
round we raised.

Tim Ferriss was one of the inspirations for the traveling. Like him or hate
him, his point is "you _don 't_ have to be rich to travel, you just have to do
it".

This isn't for everyone, but the hope is that it's extra-awesome for people
who want to see the world and experience new cultures, all as part of a job.

~~~
JimboOmega
To be clear, I'm not saying that traveling is a _bad_ thing. I love it.

I myself just moved to San Francisco ~3 months ago after a lifetime of living
within about a 100 mile circle of places on the East coast; a lot of these
observations come from this experience. Ultimately, it's been a good
experience for me, but it's not exactly what I expected from a naive point of
view.

Packing up and moving your whole life has some pretty serious consequences
that are easy to gloss over. There's a big difference between a vacation of a
few weeks to a month and actually _living_ somewhere else.

Being in SF, for me, meant living in an urban (vs. suburban) environment,
which meant a variety of changes. Hopping in the car to go _anywhere_ is no
longer a requirement. It's also not an option if I want to get a load of
groceries, unless I want to rent a ZipCar. Am I saying it's too hard to walk 2
blocks to the grocery store? No. But it's a new way of life.

All these changes to your lifestyle can be exciting and fun, but they can also
be stressful; especially so if you are (as I am not) socially isolated by
language and/or cultural differences.

For instance, one thing that was a hassle moving here for me, and would be
worse internationally, is ADHD medication. It's a schedule 2 drug in the
United States, meaning I can only ever get a month's supply, among other
restrictions. So when I got here I had to get a new doctor almost immediately
- and most doctors are reluctant to write a controlled substance prescription
on demand.

Again, I love traveling, and if I was reading this article about a DC company
(where I used to live) and I still lived there, I'd be the first to sign up.

But a lot of the differences are subtle, or unexpected, and you should realize
that it can be - while enlightening, meaningful, and ultimately fun - a very
stressful experience. It's sort of like the difference between telecommuting
and working in the office - with google hangouts, teleconferences, etc, the
communication should be the same, right? It's the same laptop whether at home
or at work, right? And yet, for me, the experience is massively different.

~~~
gbog
You love traveling but it is very stressful? Please tidy up your position.

Obviously travel it not advised for those afraid of massive differences, and
attached to homey comfort.

~~~
JimboOmega
I said _can be_ , not _is_ very stressful.

It's like our collective interest, startups: they can be very stressful, but
also very rewarding.

But there is still the matter of properly appreciating the risk, and really
understanding what you're getting into, and protecting your fundamental
physical security.

There's a difference between committing to long hours of hard work with
possibly no reward, and plunging yourself into debt by financing your business
with credit cards. So it is with travel. It's easy to delude yourself into
thinking that it'll all be fine if you just work hard and have an open mind.

I think people tend to vastly underestimate the stresses of travel (Especially
past college age). Of course, people coming to the US often have one of the
hardest times (thanks, immigration system!), but there are just all sort of
pitfalls that you'd never worry about on a week or two vacation - work visas
being just the beginning.

In other words, if you do it from a naive approach - without having considered
some of the harsher realities of travel - you're going to have a bad time.

~~~
gbog
> It's easy to delude yourself into thinking that it'll all be fine if you
> just work hard and have an open mind.

Work hard? For travel? You mean work hard to learn foreign language etc.? For
me that's not hard.

There is nothing hard to work on when travelling. If getting interested in
other culture and open minded to differences is something one needs to "work
hard on", then it is much better to just not do it. And it is OK. It is OK not
to like travelling around the world. For young people it may be uncool, but
uncoolness is much preferable to self delusion.

It is ok to prefer home's bed, and to be not able to take a shit on a squatty,
it is ok to stay home.

But if you travel, basic curiosity and interest in the others is largely
enough. Then you just go and do not need to consider "harsher realities".
After a while, you may round-trip and find yourself.

[http://chinaheritagenewsletter.anu.edu.au/tien-
hsia.php?sear...](http://chinaheritagenewsletter.anu.edu.au/tien-
hsia.php?searchterm=030_ryckmans.inc&issue=030)

~~~
mercer
I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what point you are making. For some
people traveling is not hard. For some people traveling _is_ hard. But even
for those traveling might be well worth the difficulties. Many good things are
hard.

Now, personally I _would_ argue people who say traveling isn't hard are wrong.
I've traveled a lot, lived in a few quite different countries, and much as
it's incredibly natural to me, it's often proven to be hard, much harder than
staying in one place, in the culture most common to me...

------
grecy
Awesome, you guys will have a blast.

> Currently, for legal and accounting reasons, we're only able to accept
> applications from US Citizens with valid passports. In the future this will
> change.

Please let me know when this changes. I'm a Software Engineer, speak Spanish,
have been all over Costa Rica (and Central America), and would love to do
something fun like this.

~~~
gkoberger
Email me (gregory[at]phileasandfogg.com); I'd love to talk more.

EDIT: We just changed it to "You must be able to work in US"

~~~
jacalata
Why must you be eligible to work in the US? Isn't one of the benefits of being
outside the US not having to deal with the nightmare of US Visa applications,
and expanding your candidate pool to those unwilling/unable to go through it?

~~~
gkoberger
Eventually, yes. We'd also love to find local people, too. But paying people
outside the US gets messy, and this is our first attempt at traveling/working.
So, consider it an MVP.

~~~
zura
Just out of curiosity, why it is messy? And you can as well hire them as
contractors. This should be much easier, shouldn't it?

~~~
scottlilly
One potential problem arises if a US company tries to pay someone with a bank
account outside the US.

Due to FATCA regulations, there may be a 30% withholding on bank wires sent to
foreign financial institutions that aren't Qualified Intermediaries (foreign
banks that agree to submit information on any US account holders who have
accounts with them).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act)

~~~
prawn
Pretend you're buying a product the contractor is providing. They can provide
invoices. Pay via PayPal and make sure they're withdrawing funds so the
account situation isn't painful if it's locked.

(That may or may not have worked for me...)

~~~
scottlilly
Unfortunately, PayPal has limited capabilities in some countries.

In fact, Costa Rica (where the company is moving) appears to be a country
where you cannot withdraw money from your PayPal account into a local bank
account. It also looks like you can't have them transfer money to a Costa
Rican credit or debit card. PayPal doesn't even have my current country
(Paraguay) listed as a place where I can do anything.
[https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-
approved-...](https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-approved-
signup-countries-outside)

I also encountered problems with other money transfer services when I first
moved overseas. They had limits on how much money I could transfer per day,
month, and lifetime of my account. As I started crossing certain thresholds,
they wanted me to send them my tax return for the previous year, if I wanted
to continue using them. Someone else I know frequently had transfers blocked
by the service he uses to pay his foreign contractors. There's some new
regulation, a policy changes, or just general screw-ups.

------
themodelplumber
> _Of course, one downside is that it’s not ideal for people with families.
> Some of the best people I’ve ever worked with have kids, and unfortunately
> wouldn’t be able to do this._

I have a friend who travels the world with his kids. I'm sure it takes a bit
more organization, and they aren't exactly jumping here and there every other
week, but man, how I envy those kids.

~~~
mixmastamyk
I know a four-year-old with tons of FF miles. The family is not rich (in the
common sense of the word) but it happens when you have grandparents in Brazil.
It's basically a $1k per year expense.

------
ramayac
Excelent location / country, and probably you'll fall in love with the people
and the beautiful CR women. If you happen to be arround El Salvador, I'll be
more than happy to show you arround.

Have a blast!

~~~
clhodapp
I'm almost sorry to be making this comment, but I feel compelled to. Your
comment is an example of casual objectification and I really don't think it's
appropriate public discourse. Worse, it perpetuates/fulfills the "boy's club"
stereotype of tech startup culture.

I'm a bit conflicted because this comment is:

1) Off-topic

2) Technically a personal attack

3) Something of a call for self-censorship

However, I feel that it should be made. Feel free to express disagreement or
even downmod me if I'm out of line.

~~~
zerr
Unless the OP edited the comment, there is nothing off-topic, it is even
interesting. And I don't see any personal attack or something to be censored.

~~~
rm999
He's talking about his own comment. Kind of odd that he made such a good case
against his comment but hit "reply" anyway. Anyway, this is all really off-
topic, just wanted to clarify.

------
tamarey
it's 20 years I'm leaving in Tamarindo,Costa Rica sleeping late, fishing a
little, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I
sip beer and play pool with my amigos. I have a full and busy life... and a
little boat...

------
bruceb
So you are leaving to get more time... yet you list all the perks, zip-lining
and all the rest. Seems cool but not sure all the benefits will materialize.

~~~
mixmastamyk
I assume they won't be doing that every day.

------
rdl
I'd love to do something like this, but ideally for a shorter time (with a
team), or more informally (with more people).

Renting a house in Hawaii (ideally one set up for startups; with some extra
cars, high speed Internet, printer, whiteboards, etc. all set up) for a month
might be a good way to do a 2-3 week project kickoff, followed by a week long
vacation for friends/family.

I'd still love to find a group of (security? infrastructure? bitcoin?)
startups which have a reason to be in non-USA which move to a place like
NZ/HK/CH/IS/EE and operate. One of the advantages of SFBA is you can switch
companies very easily. Moving for a single company to a place like Costa Rica
doesn't do that.

3 months is in the range where it is long enough to feel permanent, but too
short to really set things up properly, unless you have a yearly cycle among 4
different locations or something.

------
rfiatt
Cool idea, great spot to live as well.

I'm a Software Engineer and a tico and would love to join you guys as well. I
live at downtown San Jose and it's not the same as working near the beach.
Know a lot of other developers willing to relocate to the Osa Peninsula.

------
the_watcher
Wow, this is awesome. I do online marketing and code in my spare time (I am a
novice, but working hard at learning) who would love to do this. I understand
if it's not what you are looking for now, but let me know if there might be a
fit!

------
Anderkent
“Millions, señor?” replied the Mexican. “Then what?”

The American said, "Then you would spend most of your money to save 400 lives
for each million you made [1], and retire peacefully, knowing that you made
the world a better place."

[1] [http://www.givewell.org/giving101/Your-dollar-goes-
further-o...](http://www.givewell.org/giving101/Your-dollar-goes-further-
overseas)

------
sejje
I'm moving out to Costa Rica this Sunday, and also staying about (rather, at
least) 3 months on the Pacific coast. See you there!

~~~
gkoberger
Send me an email (gregory [at] phileasandfogg.com); we'd love to meet up!

------
andreipop
How did you find the house?

------
serverascode
Interesting article linked in that post about needing new experiences to slow
down the perception of time.

------
jetcom
Great write-up. Have a blast Greg & hope to bump into you there at some point!

------
latortuga
I know you didn't say that they are explicitly forbidden but discriminating
against prospective employees due to having families is walking a fine line of
violating equal opportunity hiring practices in the US.

~~~
gkoberger
My co-founder has a family and kids. Just to be clear, there is no reason at
all we wouldn't hire people with a family.

------
contingencies
Just remember, returning to the US is largely optional.

------
untico
Ha! Hope you have fun around here, good luck!

¡Pura vida!

------
krazydad
This will sound way more interesting when you make it to the next location
after Costa Rica. But then, I always wait for version 1.1..

