
Npm Layoffs - gortok
https://twitter.com/neverett/status/1110626264841359360
======
danpalmer
Do these employees have a right to apologies from NPM and help finding a new
job? No.

Should these employees expect to be treated better by a company that claims
that "Compassion is our strategy"? Yes, absolutely.

Focusing on specifics of what they are asking for is the wrong approach here,
it's a simple question: was this handled with "compassion"? I think between
lack of acknowledgement from management, lack of understanding that vesting
options can be an important part of compensation now being denied to
employees, lack of help finding a job in the extensive social networks of the
founding team, and laying off so soon after hiring some, all contributes to
this.

------
igotsideas
It always sucks to get laid off, not disregarding it. I empathize with the
employees who weren’t expecting it.

I can only speak for myself but the minute I get a job, I know that I can be
terminated at any moment for whatever reason. There should never be any shock.
Even if you move across the world for a position, it could happen on your
first day. You have to always be prepared if you’re gonna be working under
someone else’s roof.

~~~
zerkten
> I know that I can be terminated at any moment for whatever reason.

This is true for the US, but it's not necessarily true for the EU, or some
other countries. As a result, expectations can be mismatched - even though
reasonable research should turn up this possibility.

My experience suggests that a lot of folks in their early career are overly
optimistic, or just don't want to believe the possible downsides, especially
if it involves cool work. I also see different decisions taken by folks I know
in other industry who are not under the spell of tech.

With remote working, especially with smaller companies that have limited
admin/HR support, I wonder will the number of these incidents increase? This
is possibly another way to look at this situation beyond the "startups and
stock a minefield" issue which results in lots of tears.

~~~
tinus_hn
In the EU there’s a trial period as well and during that period you can be
fired for any reason without compensation.

~~~
sebazzz
Yes, but this differs per country.

In the Netherlands this can be one or two months depending on the employment
[1]. It is meant so either party can back out. After this regular rules apply.
Which are _not_ as forgiving.

[1]:
[https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/arbeidsovereenkomst...](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/arbeidsovereenkomst-
en-cao/vraag-en-antwoord/hoelang-duurt-een-proeftijd)

------
the_narrator
Layoffs happen; these kind of whiny twitter rants aren't really helpful for
anyone.

~~~
malvosenior
Exactly. If you’re recently laid off and looking for work, why jump on Twitter
and be as obnoxious as possible? I know I wouldn’t hire this person and can’t
help but think if they do this regularly that it makes sense that they were
let go.

~~~
cldellow
The person in the linked tweet isn't one of the people affected.

I'm drawing some inferences here, but she's contrasting the perceived lack of
support from the company for those affected by the npm layoffs with npm's
public brand on the Internet. If layoffs happened and npm did the minimum
legally required, that's a fair criticism to make, IMO. npm's hiring page
says:

> We are responsible adults with diverse backgrounds and interests, who take
> our careers and our lives seriously. We believe that the best way to iterate
> towards success is by taking care of ourselves, our families, our users, and
> one another.

> We aim for a sustainable approach to work and life, because that is the best
> way to maximize long-term speed, while retaining clarity of vision.
> Compassion is our strategy.

@seldo (npm co-founder) frequently tweets about people in the community who he
perceives are not performing to his moral standard.

I don't have any details, so I'm taking all of this with a grain of salt, but
if it's true, it's something of a betrayal of their brand.

~~~
malvosenior
_> We are responsible adults_

There’s nothing responsible or adult about that tweet. If she wasn’t affected
by the lay offs, then she’s doing a huge disservice to the people who were
laid off by associating them with a Twitter train wreck.

The adult thing to do would be to realize that “compassion is our strategy” is
an empty platitude and that all companies exist to make money.

------
ricardobeat
Does anyone have more info? It looks like this person doesn’t work for NPM.

EDIT: see this tweet 9h ago
[https://twitter.com/maybekatz/status/1110766133660041216?s=2...](https://twitter.com/maybekatz/status/1110766133660041216?s=21)

And here’s the story as told by another employee
[https://twitter.com/neverett/status/1110626264841359360?s=21](https://twitter.com/neverett/status/1110626264841359360?s=21)

------
mises
It is mentioned that employees have not been helped to find new jobs. But
there may be reason for that.

It is sometimes the case that for a particularly high-performing, excellent
employee, a manager or senior exec might call around to a few friends and see
if they have openings. And of course, provide a reference for others. But that
is not true of laying off a whole division. No team is comprised of 100%, or
even 25%, top performers (usually). A manager shouldn't be expected to put his
professional reputation on the line for every person in his division, even if
they aren't the best (but good enough to keep on), just because of a lay-off.

~~~
pwinnski
It is very common for a company of any reasonable size to provide third-party
outplacement services to laid-off employees. Companies like RiseSmart (no
association) exist for this. I don't know what the cost is, but it seems like
the least a company should do if they want to be considered humane.

~~~
mises
RiseSmart costs $1,900 for three months for a single employee (their most
popular "Ignite" plan). [https://www.risesmart.com/talent-mobility-
solutions/smb](https://www.risesmart.com/talent-mobility-solutions/smb)

The question may become whether how the company is seen behaving toward its
workers vs. how it actually behaves is more important. If layoffs are
occurring due to financial struggles, it is very possible that purchasing such
a service could force them to lay off more employees due to the unforeseen
cost. $1,900 x 50 employees = $95,000, which is the salary of between one and
three employees, depending on the industry and level. Should they lose their
jobs to fund such a program?

If they're __actually __just doing it for restructuring (not just as a
euphemism for financial struggles), you 're right that it could be worth
doing.

------
bfrydl
Is it normal for an ex-employer to help laid-off employees find new jobs? I
would never expect that.

~~~
dagw
At least in Europe it is not uncommon. For example when the small animation
studio I used to work for many years ago had to lay off 80% of its employees
due to lack of work, the managers there called around to friends they had in
the industry and helped set up at least informal meetings.

~~~
pbalau
One has to wonder if in this case, there was something else than a layoff...

/edit: more info here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19501227](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19501227)

/edit-2-since-i-already-got-downvoted: Facebook used to have a 1 year cliff
before the first vest, they removed it about 1 year before I left.

~~~
johnchristopher
In Belgium, the 2008 crisis struck 3d animators and cgi artists really hard.
Most people I knew in the field could never get back into it.

~~~
pbalau
My bad, I was not clear enough, I'm talking about the npm layoffs.

------
thresh
Why would someone who wants you out help you find another job?

What kind of mess is in the head of a person that thinks everyone owes them a
helping hand?

~~~
jkrems
Because you will be talking to other people, including the ones you have
worked with and built a relationship with inside of the company. And the
company has an interest in being seen as a viable place to work for others. So
making sure that ex-employees are being taken care of (to a certain degree) is
in the company's best interest.

~~~
algaeontoast
This is a ridiculously backwards and privileged / entitled position... Your
employment / what you need money for is your problem, not your superior's...

~~~
rocketpastsix
To a degree sure. But at some point, if NPM continues to do this, they will
get known as a less than great place to work. And if you get that type of
name, it will be harder and harder to get quality talent to work there.

If NPM/managers can help out, it gives them some goodwill.

~~~
algaeontoast
I sympathize with your point, however, in any case complaining about your
manager / prior employer not doing this will label you as a whiner. Nobody
likes whiners / being one is without a doubt a compromising position for
future employment (i.e. knowing it's likely that if they hire you, you'll just
complain about anything you don't like abt the company on twitter etc)

------
jatsign
Anyone have details on this? Didn't see headcount & rationale in a quick scan
of the twitter thread.

------
dredmorbius
Archived Tweet:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20190327150503/https:/twitter.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190327150503/https:/twitter.com/kf/status/1110703814909165568)

------
dang
We changed the URL from
[https://twitter.com/kf/status/1110703814909165568](https://twitter.com/kf/status/1110703814909165568),
which is now deleted, to
[https://twitter.com/neverett/status/1110626264841359360](https://twitter.com/neverett/status/1110626264841359360),
a contemporaneous thread on the same topic, which I believe was linked to from
the original one.

------
autotune
> It's not your employers job to find you a position

I find myself agreeing with this more than the initial tweets even as I sit
here having recently quit my last job without something lined up quite yet.

------
nevir
This HN thread appears to have been buried/removed from the main page

~~~
petercooper
Enough flags will do that while not affecting the upvote count.

------
CydeWeys
I need a lot more context here.

What's Npm? All that means to me is "NodeJS Package Manager", but surely there
isn't an entire company associated with that, right?

Secondly, what did the severance package look like? Re-employment assistance
is just one component to a severance package; if it includes several months'
pay then it's still a comparatively good one even lacking this assistance.

EDIT: So apparently NodeJS Package Manager is a company?! News to me.

~~~
tannhaeuser
Someone has to host the 1000000+ packages for nodejs and maintain npm. I
always wondered why npmjs, nexus, artifactory etc. don't consider a model
where they act as middlemen for licensing F/OSS or post-AWS open source-
licensed packages, taking their cut and give the rest to the developers,
because I think something like that is seriously needed.

~~~
onemoresoop
I wonder how they make any profits. Consulting to corporations since this is
open source?

~~~
nevir
Private package hosting

------
apetresc
Honestly until today I didn't even realize NPM was a company. I thought it was
managed in the same vein as PyPI or rubygems.org

... why isn't it?

~~~
dagw
Cynically, because npm came about during an era where you could easily raise
millions of dollars for a simple web service, while pypi didn't.

