
Ask HN: You're the smartest people I know. I am struggling and need advice. - Miserlou57
TL;DR:  I have serious motivation issues.<p>I'm reaching out here because I really need some advice.<p>I am 24 years old, and I seriously struggle with motivation to do... just about anything.  I have a midterm tomorrow in Dynamics (a mech engr course), and I have pretty much neglected the class entirely, and I am most certainly going to fail it, and I'll have to withdraw.  This isn't surprising, because I've been in this situation many, many times before.  But the issue goes much deeper.<p>For my entire life, I have struggled to do many basic things other people have no trouble with, like keeping my room clean or being on time.  (I am chronically late).  For high school I had bad grades, and for college I've had abysmal ones.  I took Calc 2 three times, and Calc 3 four times.  Business 1 three times, and I've repeated probably 3 or 4 engineering and other easy classes just a single time as well.<p>After my third year at university (a complete disaster), I investigated getting tested for ADD, and lo- and behold I "had" it, along with mild depression.  Now I live on my own, and aside from not having enough friends as I'd like / once had, I don't really have any real reasons to be depressed.  I started Adderrall a few years ago, and it showed me how backward I am.  I'll get to this later.<p>A recent talk with my half-sister really opened my eyes by showing me she is very much like me when it comes to getting things done.  For just about everything, I get no mental stimulation out of "doing it now," so I put it off.  And off.  And off.  I have some kind of huge mental resistance, anxiety, or pain associated with doing it (for all you neuroscientists out there).<p>I've reached the character limit, but I'm almost done, so finish it here: http://www.survivingsteam.com/hnthread
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chris_dcosta
OK. I think we all struggle with procrastination. I seriously doubt you are
alone in your level of procrastination. If you ever get a chance to flick
through "The Procrastination Equation" you'll get why we, as humans, are
programmed to procrastinate. So don't worry it is perfectly normal behaviour.

There are no magic pills to get over this, and I speak from experience, but
the first step for me was to stop being too ambitious. The next step was to
set very very small tasks, one at a time. Resist making a list of all the
tasks to complete the goal, just list the first and smallest task that comes
to mind. Then do it and iterate.

Lastly, you don't seem to be happy with the subjects you are taking, is there
any other areas that gets you properly interested - don't just do the science
stuff because you think it's what to do.

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Miserlou57
Thanks for the input. I've wondered about whether the engineering route is for
me. Sometimes I view it as something I dislike less than everything else.

Generally I really like building and designing things, but unfortunately many
of the classes in school don't revolve around that, and instead revolve around
copious amounts of math and equations, which is understandable, but not
something too many engineers do on a daily basis these days. I like math in
general, but calculating projectile motion of a spring-launched object and the
like doesn't really keep me interested.

I will try the small task lists. Thanks for that.

~~~
chris_dcosta
Is there anything like an art based product design class? It's what I did and
found it great because it totally avoided all maths - the idea was that you
came up with the ideas, you built the prototypes, solving engineering problems
by doing and learning intuitively what works and what breaks rather than by
maths. In fact the engineers often work for designers, so it's a question of
where you'd like to be in the food chain.

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mixmastamyk
I had this problem when I was younger. Finally I realized I was happier when I
didn't have a bunch of things to do weighing on me. I guess my advice boils
down to:

1\. Simplify: Cut the fat out of your life... unnecessary complications,
bills, negative people, automate everything, etc. Less is more.

2\. Focus: Go skydiving (or equiv near-death experience) occasionally, it will
put all your problems into perspective immediately (as tiny).

3\. Perspective: Travel, for the same reasons.

4\. Strategy: * Do one thing-you-don't-want-to a day. * Doesn't sound like
much, does it? Well, that's 7 boring things done per week and they add up
quickly. If that still isn't enough, see #1.

5\. Get pro. help if you are still depressed, but you may not need to after
the above.

Extra cred: Dale Carnegie's book about enjoying your life is a fun read.

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terrykohla
Dear Miserlou57,

You sound like you're struggling to live somebody else's life. There is
nothing wrong with ADD or having a messy bedroom. This only means that you
live more inside your head than in the present here and now. This means you're
a highly intuitive individual, which could give you a serious edge. This could
also be the cause of your depression. Depression can be caused by over
thinking worst possible scenarios (that do not exist in reality) which leads
to catastrophic thinking. Come back to reality, reality is not that bad, face
it! Get to know yourself better and make sure you become a specialist at
knowing yourself, this will avoid setting yourself up for failure. There is a
tremendous force inside you that you must learn to master by knowing yourself
or else it'll play against you. Only life experience will make you better at
this. You've taken the first step by identifying it and seeking for help. Here
a little inspirational video for you, good luck!
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpe-LKn-4gM>

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tomalterman
Ypu're not alone and yes everyone has this to a lesser or greater extent The
key is that there is no medecine that makes this better, just ways of
adjusting your outlook, setting clear goals and overcoming procrastination.

I would second offdrey referral to
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5378462>

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cloudout
Try some strengths tests like:

<https://www.gallupstrengthscenter.com/Purchase/>

sounds cheesy but these are sometimes very insightful. It likely will not tell
you anything new, usually just makes the obvious clear.

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offdrey
The current top thread on HN (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5378462>)
is about procrastination. I think you may find it helpful.

~~~
Miserlou57
I definitely saw it... it is very interesting! thanks!

~~~
Cardeck1
a mail on your profile would be good if you want some help...

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C0d3r
I think that I've got a place for you <http://www.reddit.com/r/INTP>

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santu11
Hi there,

I was in the same place as yours 4 years back. I am out of college now with a
full-time job and almost out of debt. Here's what had worked for me. It might
not work for you.

You have real world skills like building a web app and have a part time job. I
had none.

I was down with 6 courses with F grades and no idea what to do with my life. I
was about to quit college. I knew I was going somewhere wrong with the notion
of world I had.

I took a Vipassana course. The courses are of 10 days duration, independent of
religious stuff and free of charge to all those who wish to do so. Here the
link : <http://www.dhamma.org/>. It is like a gym for the mind. The more you
do it, the more you increase your focus, willpower and awareness. It becomes
easier to deal with problems in life with a strong mind. It also forces you to
look at life directly rather than deluding yourself with self pity or
fantasies.

It was hard for me to realize that : 1) I am dissatisfied only when I am not
getting something that I want. 2) There is a price to pay for everything I
want.

For me at that moment, the most important thing was to pass out of college
since I had taken a loan to study there. I was really interested to know, what
I was doing different than the guys who were the toppers with all 'A's.

One of the toppers told me, he really did 3 things : 1) Attended every class
and took notes of almost everything. 2) Tried to understand everything told by
the Professor during the lecture or the same day itself, paraphrashing the
notes if required. 3) Teach other students the stuff before the exams. (Most
important since we retain 90% of the stuff we teach or apply straight away in
case of programming)

I almost remember the day he told me this stuff. But did I implement it
straight away? No I just could not. I could not come out of my old habits
straight away. That semester I flunked in almost all of the courses.

But the next semester I decided to implement all the three from Day One. The
first two were quite easy. I was really concerned about the last part.

I had reservations who would try to understand stuff from me. But I think I
was repeating "Theory of Computation", just before the exams some student
asked me to help with something. I asked him to come sometime in the night. I
explained concepts to an audience of nine students who were taking the course.
I passed that course easily.

The last two semesters were very easy after forming those habits and I easily
passed all the previously flunked courses as well. I even had time to be a
part of a band and teach Java programming to a group of fellow students.

I would not say the whole journey was easy. Forming new habits are difficult
and it needs a lot of motivation. Regular Vipassana meditation helped. My mom
helped me with all kinds of support - financial as well as emotional.
Sometimes when I was really down, I reminded myself that she believed in me
and no matter what happened I was going to be brave enough to survive college.

Again this is my story but it is you who has to try new stuff and habits to
yourself to go from "where you are" to "where you want to be". It is your
habits who make you are. You can change those habits. Other people have done
so. So can you.

All the best from my side. Would really like to see you stuff making HN
frontpage.

Shoot me an email about anything.

\-- Fellow HNer

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CleanedStar
"I'm 24, and my life is in shambles, compared to what it could be."

That you think this is one positive step toward your idea of "life...what it
could be". A lot of 24 year olds do not have such aspirations. So just
aspiring to something is helpful.

"I seriously struggle with motivation to do just about anything. I have a
midterm tomorrow in Dynamics (a mech engr course), and I have pretty much
neglected the class entirely, and I am most certainly going to fail it, and
I'll have to withdraw. This isn't surprising, because I've been in this
situation many, many times before."

You were discussing how you think people on HN are smart. I think people on HN
are limited. Not only do I think that, I am right, people on HN are limited.
Including myself. Gnothi seauton. Know your limitations. Why do even the best
coders say people shouldn't put more than, say, seven objects or variables in
a function? The truth is, many functions would be better with a couple of
dozen variables in them. Why do the best coders not do this? Because they are
limited. They can only keep seven or eight objects in their head at once, they
can't keep track of two hundred objects in their head at once. So they write
code that their limited brains can understand. Bad coders write long functions
with hundreds of variables, to where they can't keep the whole function in
their head any more, and their code fails. Good coders write functions that
their tiny 1.5kg, 1 cubic decimeter brains can handle.

You said you know you're going to fail the course you mention. Did you know
before you started you would? I don't know the answer, but it seems like you
did, or you should have. So why take the course? Why set yourself up to fail?
You talk about motivation - nothing is more DE-motivating than setting
yourself up to fail like that. Or trying to get that great Apple job you're
not yet qualified for.

Just like big code has to be "broken up" into small functions, you have to
"break up" your big goals. Set small, realistic, achievable goals and go from
step to step. If you can't achieve these new goals, then obviously they're not
small, realistic and/or achievable enough, so make them smaller, more
realistic and more achievale.

Nothing is more demotivating than this cycle of "going for the gold" and
failing every time. Things go incremently. There are setbacks, maybe small,
achievable, realistic goal #4 will have some setback. So just deal with it and
go on. If you can only concentrate for five minutes, your goal should be to
concentrate for five minutes and thirty seconds. And go from there. Iterative
and incremental are popular philosophies here.

