
Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria - wglb
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2018/04/19/methodology-tracked-illegal-shipment-sarin-precursor-belgium-syria/
======
scottie_m
I want to be clear that I don’t know if chemical weapons are being used in
Syria, although the evidence for the use of Chlorine in barrel bombs is
strong. I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t seen good evidence of
organophosphate poisonings, but I’m just some guy so who knows.

What I do know for sure however, is that this blog is utter bunk.

 _The Belgian customs found that without having requested the appropriate
export licenses three Flemish companies have exported 96 tonnes of isopropanol
in a concentration of 95% or higher to Syria since sanctions came into force
in September 2013._

That’s rubbing alcohol! That’s not evidence of sarin manufacture, it’s not a
“precursor” it’s rubbing alcohol in typical concentrations for goddamned
Purell. Can you use it as part of a process to make sarin? Sure, but it’s not
a critical ingredient, it’s not what any honest person would consider a
precursor, it’s just a solvent. It also antimocrobial and antiseptic, and you
know... rubbing alcohol.

~~~
anoncoward111
I agree with you in principle (that it's likely this is for use as rubbing
alcohol, not as an industrial precursor), but in theory, there is still
something going on here.

Number one, they are able to track the volume and destinations of the trade.
It would be weird to see a large fluctuation in exports-- why would Syrian
consumers suddenly begin demanding or abandoning their use of rubbing alcohol?
Demand is most likely constant.

Number two, the Belgians have already arrested and are criminally prosecuting
the company executives who did not obtain the proper export license. Is this
"bureaucratic heavy-handedness" (certainly possible), or do they have evidence
that the chemical in question was delivered in such a large quantity that it
is "fishy"?

~~~
cfadvan
_According to the United Nations, Syria imported 1,916,504 kilograms of
"Propyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol" in 2010, 1,705,420 kilograms in 2009,
926,139 kilograms in 2008, and so on..._

...To quote another here.

Isopropyl alcohol is _not_ an organophosphate precursor.

[https://cyber.sci-
hub.hk/MTAuMTAwMi9zbGN0LjIwMTcwMjc2Mw==/qu...](https://cyber.sci-
hub.hk/MTAuMTAwMi9zbGN0LjIwMTcwMjc2Mw==/quagliano2018.pdf)

 _Precursors of CW agents are chemicals which have relatively small molecules,
that may be used for the synthesis of other toxic products such as
organophosphorous pesticides.[1,2] Direct precursors of nerve agents are those
chemicals that can be converted to nerve agents in one or two synthetic steps,
and are those under strict surveillance by OPCW. Industrial com- pounds such
as organophosphates (pesticides mainly), phos- gene, chlorine, and cyanide are
precursors that are not difficult to obtain.[3] On the other side, synthesis
of methylphosphono- fluoridates (G-agents) and V-agents is not direct because
of the absence of a large-scale commercial source of the key organo-
phosphorous precursors: methylphosphonyl dichloride (Me- POCl2) and
methylphosphonyl difluoride (MePOF2). However, impure nerve agent could be
easily synthesized, as it was in the case of terrorist attacks in Tokyo subway
in Japan in 1995._

Precursors for sarin, tabun, and G-series agents are sources of fluorine,
usually bifluorides. Ammonium or Sodium bifluoride for example, is absolutely
a precursor (although it has some non-essential, legitimate industrial uses)
For sarin, you must have a source of fluorine atoms, so it can be sensible to
control export of bifluoride compounds. While alcohol is used, it’s like
trying to control the production of beer by interdicting water instead of
malted barley. While malted barley has many uses, it’s not essential and its
major use is fermentation. Water meanwhile, is essential and ubiquitous.

The key precursors for organophosphates involve the donated fluorine; no
fluorination, no organophosphate weapons. As a bonus the fluorine compounds
used are dangerous, and imported/exported in _much_ smaller quantities than
alcohol. Without bifluorides, you can still have industry, medicine, etc.
Without isopropyl you can’t even have hand sanitizer.

Blackbagboys: Oh for sure, it’s hard to imagine why there would be high demand
for the most common disinfectant in a war zone. That’s incredibly suspicious,
and clearly points to the production of sarin. (/s)

Come on, this blog isn’t talking about anything reasonable, it’s calling
rubbing alcohol a CW precursor.

~~~
jmblpati
Your claim about fluorine being essential for organophosphate nerve agents is
incorrect. The original nerve agent, tabun, contains no fluorine at all for
example. Neither do VX, parathion, or paraoxon.

The mechanism behind organophosphate poisoning lies entirely in the phosphate
part of the molecule. Among the enzymes present in the human body are a large
class known as serine hydrolases. These enzymes hydrolyze chemical bonds in a
wide variety of compounds (such as sugars, proteins, and lipids), and their
function critically depends on a nucleophillic serine amino acid in the
enzyme's structure. This serine attacks the bond to be hydrolyzed, freeing one
half of the victim molecule and leaving the other half attached to the enzyme.
Then water comes in and breaks the bond between the serine and the second half
to restore the enzyme and in sum hydrolyze the original bond.

Organophosphate nerve agents act by entering the active site of a serine
hydrolase. They are attacked by the active site serine to release a counterion
(which depends on the specific nerve agent) and a phosphate ester of the
enzyme. However, this enzyme ester can only be hydrolyzed extremely slowly--
the enzyme cannot be restored to its original form, and the entire enzyme is
nonfunctional.

Now, the released counterion could be many things (it just needs to be
something that will leave if pushed out by the hydrolase serine). On the other
hand, it should not be too eager to leave like something like chlorine would
be: if it was the potential nerve agent would be attacked by things like water
before getting to the hydrolase, wasting the agent. Thus, a balance needs to
be struck between something easy to displace but not too easy to displace.
This gives the classic functional groups present in most nerve agents and
organophosphate pesticides: fluoride, cyanide, thiols, and phenolates.

By the way, fluorides and fluoride minerals are virtually impossible to
regulate trade in: they have a large variety of legitimate uses from
toothpaste to aluminum production, and fluorspar is a fairly common mineral in
the world. What is usually regulated instead are the phosphorus precursors
such as phosphorus trichloride and red phosphorus as well as some chlorinating
agents like thionyl chloride.

~~~
pcrh
Just for your information, the mechanism of organophosphate nerve agent
toxicity does not involve serine hydrolyases. It involves
acetylcholinesterase.

[https://chemm.nlm.nih.gov/nerveagents.htm](https://chemm.nlm.nih.gov/nerveagents.htm)

~~~
jmblpati
...which is a serine hydrolase.

~~~
pcrh
I stand corrected... I was thinking of serine hydrolyases more generally, most
of which are not significantly affected by organophosphate neurotoxins.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serine_hydrolase](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serine_hydrolase)

~~~
jmblpati
No, pretty much all serine hydrolases are affected by organophosphates
(assuming they can reach the active site). For example, the compounds IDFP[0]
and MAFP[1] can both be used to inhibit serine hydrolase activity in vitro.
Diisopropyl fluorophosphate can also be used, although that one actually is
pretty much a nerve agent (it's volatile).

The only reason the wholesale disruption of hydrolases is not the thing that
kills you with nerve agents is that acetylcholinesterase is particularly
susceptible to organophosphates (wide open active site) and essential to nerve
signal conduction. Thus although sarin (for example) will wreck most
hydrolases in your body, this won't really matter when you'll be dead in a few
minutes from your nervous system being unable to tell your lungs to breathe.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDFP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDFP)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoxy_arachidonyl_fluorophos...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoxy_arachidonyl_fluorophosphonate)

~~~
pcrh
"The dose makes the poison". It would be too broad to claim that all serine
hydrolyases are susceptible to all organophosphate compounds.

For example many pesticides are organophosphates, yet have little effect on
humans.

------
hhfcvh
Putting isopropanol in the export control list is BS.

That’s a precursor to everything - you might as well say: “we don’t like you
so you’re not allowed to have industry”

~~~
varenc
I found this list of all the different sorts of isopropanol uses interesting:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol#Uses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol#Uses)

~~~
guilhas
Special note to: "Automotive: Isopropyl alcohol is a major ingredient in "gas
dryer" fuel additives." Syria gets freezing temperatures in winter.

Also 'sarin use' was added 19 April. And the guy added it to the introduction,
but it was removed later with the comment "... dangerous molecules are often
in part made from everyday chemicals as components."

------
pps43
NaCl is chlorine precursor. Will Bellingcat track shipments of table salt or
movements of sea water next?

~~~
tajen
To be consistent, let’s prevent their access to the sea.

------
Theodores
Although this story is absurd it does show how the sanctions have been set out
to cripple civilian life in Syria.

Maybe they could ban shoe laces as they are used by the Assad regime, or maybe
they could ban H2O since that could be used for making everything from sarin
to nuclear weapons, hat would teach them.

It is also interesting how this internet is connecting people with lies rather
than people.

~~~
reitanqild
dhmo.org still exists and I still use it as a teaching resource.

(If it isn't obvious, yes, I know. I use it to teach people to be critical to
what they read.)

~~~
dghughes
What about the scourge of hydroxic acid? I mean come on it's acid!

------
drewmol
High concentration isopropanol is also used in what's likely the most
efficient method (at least where back yard chemistry is the only option) to
produce hashish from large quantities of marijuana. It allows for quick
processing into a much more condense, potent, less-perishable and comparibly
easy to transport/smuggle product. Just a thought on what other Syrian
industries[1] might demand such large amounts of isopropanol. Considering the
large quantities, maybe some Syrians have been enlightened by a more efficient
way to concentrate their vast supply of low-grade marijuana.

[1][https://m.gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/amid-war-in-syria-
has...](https://m.gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/amid-war-in-syria-hashish-
business-booms-1.1868090)

------
tzahola
"sarin precursor" = isopropanol

I use this very dangerous sarin precursor everyday as a hand sanitizer.

~~~
loceng
And if you all of a sudden ordered "96 tons" of it out of the blue? I think
the issue being brought to light is contrast to normal export/import of it to
this region?

~~~
tzahola
96 tons is nothing.

[http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?q=isopropyl&d=ComTrade&f=_l1Cod...](http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?q=isopropyl&d=ComTrade&f=_l1Code%3a30%3bcmdCode%3a290512)

According to the United Nations, Syria imported 1,916,504 kilograms of "Propyl
alcohol and isopropyl alcohol" in 2010, 1,705,420 kilograms in 2009, 926,139
kilograms in 2008, and so on...

~~~
loceng
Cool, well, so long as someone is keeping track and following up. Thank you
for digging up the information.

------
guilhas
HN quality. News of a illegal bombing in Syria was to political for main page.
Anti-russia theories blog Bellingcat? No problem. What's next ZeroHedge?

------
rmrfrmrf
This comment section is full of misinformation.

~~~
guilhas
The underlying assumption of the article also

