
When's a van a van and when's it a car? - petercooper
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45875405
======
gowld
How is that whenever someone on HN comes up with some gimmick around bitcoin
or cybersecurity or something, they are met with a chorus of "the courts
aren't computer programs, they can use common sense to nail you to the wall",
but then we have all these tariff and tax laws where ridiculous
misinterpretations of the law are upheld by the courts?

~~~
wmf
There's an element of scale; if you can afford lawyers to analyze and defend a
loophole, go for it. If you can't afford lawyers then you're taking on
significant risk.

~~~
Tempest1981
Lawyers, lobbyists, political contributions, friends in high places -- they
all buy power.

------
jac_no_k
I recall similar with the Sony Playstation 2 that made available Linux
available so it can be classified as a computer.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_2)

~~~
saagarjha
> Some incorrectly speculate it was used as an attempt to help classify the
> PS2 as a computer to achieve tax exempt status from certain EU taxes that
> apply to game consoles and not computers (It was the Yabasic included with
> EU units that was intended to do that).

~~~
__initbrian__
>Yabasic (Yet Another BASIC) is a free and open source BASIC interpreter for
Windows and Unix platforms

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yabasic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yabasic)

Because I had to look it up

------
nudgeee
Also, Jaffa cake debate in the UK. Is it a cake or a biscuit?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes#Categorisation_as_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes#Categorisation_as_cake_or_biscuit_for_VAT)

~~~
TheGrumpyBrit
And as long as you're down the rabbit hole, take a look at UK speed limits in
relation to vans. Vans have a lower speed limit than cars, but "Car derived
vans" are still considered cars and vice versa.

That gives you a strange situation where, if your vehicle is available in both
a car and a van form factor, the speed limit applied to your vehicle is based
not on weight, load capacity or number of passengers, but on which came first
- if the car was first, the car speed limit applies to the van. If the van
came first, the van speed limit applies to the car.

------
walrus01
See also, Subaru BRAT

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax)

~~~
blahedo
Yup, that's what I was coming over here to post about too—this is not a "novel
approach" as the article alleges.

[http://www.ginandtacos.com/2014/04/04/npf-beat-on-the-
brat/](http://www.ginandtacos.com/2014/04/04/npf-beat-on-the-brat/)

(has pictures!)

~~~
anoncoward111
Hm, wow, so I cut the back seats out of my 2005 ford focus and I basically
have the same thing you see here, except the back is completely surrounded by
the metal roof and rear window glass and trunk door.

It's big enough for two people to sleep in, 7ft x 5ft. I fit a queen mattress
in it no problem!

------
DINKDINK
Related:Ship of Theseus

In the metaphysics of identity, the ship of Theseus — or Theseus's paradox —
is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether a ship—standing
for an object in general—that has had all of its components replaced remains
fundamentally the same object.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus)

~~~
mjevans
I agree with the results of the majority in the empirical study.

An object that has had all of it's components gradually replaced or changed is
still 'the' object that was started with as far as identity goes.

If the parts which were replaced are restored and re-assembled the same way as
the original is, that too is 'the' object.

Yes, both or even maybe infinite clones/duplicates might exist at the same
time. None of these are the initial object; that is lost to a moment in time.

I would conceptually draw the line at a new 'finished' object needing greater
than 50% of it's conceptual measure to be comprised of an iteration of the
named object to qualify as being of that object at any given time.

Once it classifies as that object by transitive properties the rest, even the
new pieces, become of that object to at least some degree.

As a slightly different twist on the subject, IIRC all Hass avocados are from
splicing a single tree on to others. Given the semantics I would say that
while none of these is still the initial tree, "the" tree would still be the
one who's roots are still original. This is both by having a unique part which
was never lost from the initial instance and by being the chronologically
oldest/initial instance and having an unbroken history of existence.

------
pg_bot
I hope that one day we will live in a world where we remove all barriers to
trade, and governments will stop attempting to prop up industries via
legislation. Until then I can only commend the tariff engineers on their
creativity and wish them the best of luck.

~~~
ChuckMcM
That day will occur about 6 months after we have a single world currency :-).

~~~
jacquesm
So, never.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I don't know, never is a long time :-) Alexander the Great was the last person
who had a shot at instituting a single currency...

------
erikb
One of these super confusing topics. At the same time as this is discussed as
some kind of heroism in Germany at least there is a discussion about cum-ex
trading as the robbery of the century. In some regards both are using the
complexity of the law to make a profit that they wouldn't have made without
nitpicking the law. But only one is considered a crime. Why? How?

~~~
Digit-Al
Here's a thought experiment that might explain it.

Imagine you are at some form of social gathering and someone starts going
round with a jar collecting for a charity. Now, if you witness someone not
putting any money into the jar you're not necessarily going to think bad of
them. There could be lots of reasons why they are not donating in this
instance and it's not mandatory. However, if you saw someone put their hand in
and take out a fistful of money you would be outraged, because this person has
stolen money that other people have donated to the charity - and most normal
people will find such an act distasteful at the very least.

This is the same. It is the difference between someone not paying a tax and
someone stealing tax that other people have paid.

------
moron4hire
Saving $250 million over 16 years doesn't seem like a lot, especially
considering it takes 2.5 hours to perform the conversion.

~~~
stickfigure
Presumably the $250M factors in such costs.

There is probably some journalistic license being taken here; if the Ford
Transit cost 20% more, it might not be competitive in the marketplace and they
might sell considerably fewer.

------
csours
Its funny to me that the BBC continues to call it a Van tax throughout,
whereas in the US we call it a Truck tax.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
They'll often refer to US highways / freeways as "motorways" in news stories
too, which always stands out to me.

In the case of OP the word "truck" means something different in the UK (we
only use it for much larger articulated vehicles).

~~~
Digit-Al
The clue is in the name. It is the British Broadcasting Corporation, not the
American Broadcasting Corporation. The article is written for a British target
audience, quite possibly by British journalists - therefore British terms will
be used.

Just like an American publication will use American terms, even if doing a
British based story.

