

Hacking Startups, A Declaration of Institutional Independence - messel
http://www.victusspiritus.com/2009/06/06/hacking-startups-a-declaration-of-institutional-independence/

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pj
There's been a lot of hating on higher education around here lately, so I'll
take the contrarian position. Before I get started, I will say that higher
education costs way too much. Our students should _not_ be $100,000 in debt
when they graduate.

However, I do believe education has a value. I have been a coder for a long
time now and I've seen lots of coders. I survived the dotbomb in '00 and never
got laid off. Meanwhile, I saw biz school grads and history majors and other
nontechnical degree holders lose job after job. They failed certification
exams and wrote really bad code.

These individuals would say things like, "You don't need computer science
training, it's easy to learn on the job -- everyone should get a business
degree." I had to maintain their code, so I know the truth in their words, or
lack there of.

When I got my degree, we learned assembly language on sparcs. We learned
verilog and built virtual CPUs. We built digital circuits out of AND and OR
gates. We had labs and projects and very hard problems to solve. We gained an
intimate understanding of the machine you won't get learning PHP on your own
or Ruby on Rails from blogs on the net.

Most importantly, we were taught how to think. I've seen the kids coming out
of college today. I see their code. I see what they admire in an app. I talk
to their professors and hear their dismay that maybe one kid in their class
"gets code."

In a large part, college is a test of commitment. It is a filter for
dedication. If you don't believe enough in your future to take advantage of an
education... of an _opportunity to learn_ , then what good are you to a
business that has to learn how to navigate these difficult economic waters?

~~~
messel
Thanks for the feedback pj, the experiences you had in school were fundamental
to your learning the basics of computers. I'd argue you could have learned
much if not all of that on your own, or with some friends in less time than it
took you to graduate. In addition things have changed so much in the past 20
years that the nand gates I used to play with in school don't aid me much in
understanding modern digital circuitry, I have to keep reading and learning->
school was only the beginning.

My quick background: physics undergrad (then a MSEE). It shouldn't have taken
6 years of my life to learn what I needed. There were some incredible
serendipitous finds, but the timeline is too long and the focus just wasn't
there. By the end of my first year I was learning with friends in study groups
and from books much more than I got out of class. I learned coding on the job.
It was an engineering position so my school wasn't wasted per se. But any
Basic (on the TI99) or pascal toy coding I did beforehand did little to
prepare me. Real work experience was a powerful teacher.

Actually working with a group of software developers, following some
standards, and working on my own small/easy sections of the code at first is
what eventually cemented the process of coding. But then there was the matter
of design.

The design of structures, data flow, processes came from working problems that
demanded real time (or near real time) efficiency. I learned with C++, and
veered away from java for the speed issue.

Would you agree there is room for alternative learning besides college
educations in preparation for tomorrow's workforce?

~~~
pj
Oh yeah, I absolutely think that there is room for alternative learning. I
think alternative learning is much better than the mainstream stuff most kids
get.

My personal bias, I came from a small rural community where education wasn't
really valued much. I was "rescued" from this environment and given
educational opportunities most never dream of. I am glad I had those
opportunites.

I think much of it is just being around a group of peers who are similarly
motivated to learn. Being around teachers who can help guide you or understand
where you are in your learning. This kind of environment exists in higher
education _for the most part_ , where it doesn't exist as much elsewhere.

This kind of group harmony is difficult to find. In my community it hardly
exists, but institutions of education are focused, target rich environments
for people who want to learn.

You also have to admit that these institutions aren't really designed for
advanced learners. They are designed for the average learner. The average
student. People with a lot of aptitude and potential to rise well above the
average are going to find higher ed as stiffling as they find high school.

In my _opinion_ , I think higher ed is mostly about "getting your papers".
Yes, the motivated individual can go out there and learn way more than the
average A-level graduate, but how does the world know? How do I know where you
fit within social structure? Are you a type A person or a type B person? What
kind of aptitude do you have?

There are lots of problems yes. The valedictorian in the grade above me was
well known to be a prolific cheater. Passing notes in class after the
professor left. Discussing answers. I admired the guy, but I heard multiple
stories from people in his classes who didn't know each other that he was
dishonorable. I didn't know. The professors didn't know. Yet he ranked high in
the list when he graduated. That's an unfortunate anecdote to illustrate the
problems.

But I suppose we have to look at the system as a whole. I'm not sure the
solution is to do away with higher education, but rather to focus on the right
kinds of higher education. Even things like apprenticeships would be a good
alternative to many.

To echo your thoughts, I don't use digital logic circuits to do my job either,
but how can I measure the positive impact that education has on my work now?
Would I write better or worse code had I not learned what I learned in school.
I haven't coded a linked list from scratch in over a decade, but I know the
concept.

Perhaps the greatest value of education is that it forces us to expand our
usable neuronal footprint. It helps our brain recruit neurons to solve
problems. A lot of our neurons just sit there waiting to be used for
something. Higher education exercises those neurons and makes them easier to
put to "productive" use later on.

Another of the motivators for higher ed, I think, are that, "Well... I got a
degree, so because I want to keep them valuable, I have to select from those
who agree with me." We spent a lot of money getting degrees, so we want to
believe they are worth something. The dichotomy though, that higher education
is worth something or it isn't, is a false one. How do you measure the value
of education? ROI? Personal fulfillment? Opened _or closed_ doors?

~~~
messel
Agreed on all counts pj, I'd sign up for your peer motivated/enthusiastic
mentor program instead of a 100k education any day. I can't imagine what I
would have done had I not finished school, but my gut feeling is that there's
room for improvement, certainly in regards to entrepreneurs.

