
We View Nikola’s Response as a Tacit Admission of Securities Fraud - samizdis
https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola-response/
======
altdatathrow
> "The entire infotainment system is a HTML 5 super computer," Milton said.
> "That's the standard language for computer programmers around the world, so
> using it let's us build our own chips. And HTML 5 is very secure. Every
> component is linked on the data network, all speaking the same language.
> It's not a bunch of separate systems that somehow still manage to
> communicate."

[1] [https://www.truckinginfo.com/330475/whats-behind-the-
grille-...](https://www.truckinginfo.com/330475/whats-behind-the-grille-of-
the-new-nikola-hydrogen-electric-truck)

~~~
rayuela
Ok is this actually real? Is truckinginfo.com a reputable site? That quote
sounds so outlandishly crazy I'm hesitant to believe someone actually said
that.

~~~
throwaway5752
The author is just not an expert in this field. This is - for the most part -
what Hacker News sounds like when there are discussions outside of computer
science.

~~~
adventured
> The author is just not an expert in this field. This is - for the most part
> - what Hacker News sounds like when there are discussions outside of
> computer science.

If only it were just that. He appears to be a con-artist. It's always
interesting how things can sound similar and have entirely different intent
and reasoning behind them.

This guy knew he was spouting lies while talking about the HTML supercomputer
(assuming it's a correct quote from the trucking site in question). He has now
been caught doing it repeatedly and to a rather dramatic scale. His interviews
are full of half truths and dodges. It appears to be the Theranos playbook:
try to get to a certain line where some product finally becomes real, before
the clock runs out on the con.

Intentions matter a lot. There's obviously a vast difference between someone
quite innocently discussing / opining outside of their knowledge lanes on a
hacker news forum, and someone intentionally spinning an epic scale multi-
billion-dollar fraud in the name of the profit motive.

The point being, if someone is talking outside of their lane on HN, I have
essentially zero inclination to think they're knowingly attempting to commit
fraud (intellectual or financial) in the process, as on HN it's almost
exclusively a common, innocent form of ignorance at play. As contrasted with
the intentional deception of a con-artist.

~~~
throwaway5752
I get your point, and agree. But I was saying the _author_ (Park) allowed the
quote from Milton (speaker of the "HTML5/supercomputer" quote) to run because
he wasn't a domain expert in computers and software, rather that pushing him
on it or not publishing that part.

------
samizdis
That is a patient, clinical, point-by-point dismemberment of Nikola's supposed
rebuttal of Hindenburg's original document. Superbly done, and surely
devastating.

This story just keeps on giving.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
The fact that NKLA remains as high as it does really is proof of a "post-fact"
world, as a sibling commenter put it.

Take a look at Twitter, and it's pretty sad IMO to see some of the "I still
believe in you Trevor!!" type responses, completely devoid of any logic
looking at the actual facts. It's like these kind of cults are everywhere now.

And my take on the stock price remaining as high as it is is that there are a
relatively small number of cultish-believers (maybe 5-20%, I really don't know
beyond that it's a small minority), and then everyone else pretty much _knows_
this stock is a fraud and is eventually going to 0, but is just trying to time
it so that someone else is holding the bag. Very similar to how Hertz spiked
after they filed for bankruptcy: pretty much everyone knew they were going to
0, it was just a bet on who could time it best.

~~~
DobryMorozov
Trevor Milton bought $1.3 million dollars of shares yesterday. He's trying to
keep the share price up to support the narrative that nothing is wrong

------
TheArcane
After Theranos and Wirecard, I'm surprised how much benefit of the doubt
Nikola is being given

~~~
vmchale
Literally got investors because their name sounds like Tesla lol

~~~
carlosdp
That literally should have been a red flag from the get go. What ultimately
successful company names themselves based on a leading competitor?

~~~
liability
If you look at the HN discussion about Nikola four years ago, it's filled with
people pointing to the copycat name as a redflag. So even without hindsight,
this was obvious.

> _They could have tried a little harder with the name. It makes me take them
> less seriously with a copycat name like they 're not confident enough in
> their product and need to glom onto Tesla's success. What an awful decision.
> The truck looks neat, though._

Response to the above:

> _I don 't think that truck is ever seeing the light of day; the name and the
> rest of it all seems incredibly unlikely to materialize except as some money
> in someone's pockets."_

------
InTheArena
The following two things can both be true: 1) The short sellers exist to build
bad press to drive down valuations so they profit by short-selling and engage
is very shady practices to do so. 2) Fraud has occurred at Nikola.

Unlike Tesla and the never-ending $TSLAQ "Tesla is nothing but fraud", it
appears that they really have something here with Nikola, even though my knee-
jerk reaction to the short-sellers is one of mostly disgust.

~~~
ForHackernews
Why do you dislike short-sellers? I think it's wonderful when they're pointing
out the emperor has no clothes!

In order to have a functioning market, we need to base valuations on more than
just "stonks go up".

~~~
bob33212
Creating a successful business is hard enough. The last thing you need is
someone trying to make the case that you are going to fail at every turn. It
is one thing to point out fraud like Theranos and NKLA, it is another thing to
kick someone when they are down especially if your attack pushed the company
into bankruptcy.

~~~
mikeg8
That comes with the territory of entering public markets though. If you don;t
want to handle that kind of scrutiny, stay private and raise private equity or
aim for a slower growth rate you can fund. Short sellers are good for the
nature of the market they participate in.

------
textech
Looks like next Theranos to me. You have to give credit to the guy though
since he is showing how easy it is to fool the so-called "smart money".

~~~
mercer
After reading his wikipedia page it's mind-boggling to me that this guy was
trusted at all. He's literally a (failed) car salesman!

------
switch11
yeah, Nikola pretty much admitted they lied

It's interesting that everything they have done is not PROVABLY fraud, and yet
is on the very line between slightly unethical and actually illegal

pretty crazy

~~~
dahart
The article here seems to make a decent case that the fraud is provable, no?

~~~
csours
When something is in a gray area, perception of facts depends on your point of
view.

As someone not personally involved, I find things like this and Theranos
fascinating. I'd love it if Theranos was real; Holmes obviously played on that
very well. Green tech is also prone to this effect.

Add to that the "fake it till you make it", and "only cheerleaders allowed"
attitudes at startups; the "reality disruption zone" of founders, etc, etc.

Are you stopping another Theranos, or are you killing another Tucker?

Disclaimer: I work for GM, but not on anything related to Nikola. I have no
personal knowledge about Nikola from work.

Personal Opinion: Nikola is in the darker side of the gray area; I think there
could still be good outcomes, but it looks pretty marginal.

------
tibbydudeza
Well the truck works if you roll it down a hill , who needs hydrogen or
electricity when you can just use good old free gravity.

Next up ... perpetual motion.

------
jiveturkey
> Nikola’s Response Had Holes Big Enough to Roll a Truck Through.

Love it.

------
new_realist
It’s amazing how many people believe Tesla and Nikola are different beasts,
when they execute in an almost identical manner, and have the same set of
short sellers.

~~~
InTheArena
Except, you know, building and selling the car that brought the EV market back
from the dead, building a high end brand with the Model S, then building the
most popular EV in the world, which is more then holding it's own against the
rest of the established automotive world.

~~~
new_realist
Tesla is 17 years old, Nikola is much younger.

~~~
mthoms
So... they _are_ different beasts? Which is it?

~~~
InTheArena
Or, even if you want to accept that time frame, Tesla built their own cars.
This is the detail of the contract Nikola signed with GM.

It's pretty obvious that there isn't anything here at this point.

------
new_realist
Nikola is following the classic Tesla playbook (remember the Cybertruck’s
shattered windows, the infamous FSD video, or Elon’s settlement with the SEC?)
but doesn’t have enough True Believers infesting the Internet.

[http://ElonMusk.today](http://ElonMusk.today)

~~~
klmadfejno
A fairly substantial portion of your comment history, and 2/3 submissions
appear to be finding some way to shit on Tesla, SpaceX, or Musk.

You also stated at one point, "This is based on my own data, owning multiple
Teslas over four years."

So... why? Why do you do this?

~~~
revscat
I wonder the same thing. I first noticed this back when the iPhone came out.
At the time, there were frequent posts from guys like this one complaining
about Apple/Jobs fanboys, and the language they used was very similar to what
you see here. "It's all fraud, Jobs is a fraud, fanboys are zealots," etc.,
etc.

I don't get these people. I'm not sure if they are paid shills, or true
believers. I suspect there's a bit of both to be found. But I will say this:
in my estimation the haters outnumber the fanboys by _at least_ a factor of
100.

~~~
MacsHeadroom
I still think apple fanboys are zealots. I was more vocal about it then, as
were many heavily invested in FoSS. It's the same vocal dissent that lead to
Microsoft investing in Linux on Windows and open source in general.

I don't think paid troll farms were really a thing in 2006. They are now, and
you see less apple dissent. So I'm not inclined to think these things are
related.

