
Ask HN: Offer of Employment retracted - joboffer
I was offered a Senior RoR dev position at a 50-ppl funded and revenue-generating bay area company last week. I accepted, signed, and was excited to join this company. Subsequently I gave my two-week notice at my current job (not in the bay area). They have started my exit process here.<p>This afternoon I got a call from the HR that they are retracting my offer as "circumstances have changed and they are eliminating the position". I am literally shocked as I have a perfectly good, well-paying job at a Fortune 500 company where I've worked for 5+ yrs that I resigned from to join this small company.<p>What is my recourse in this situation? I was told by the Engineering Manager in this company that I got two thumbs up from all the interviewers and they were looking forward to me joining. He even sent me tech documents to go over a couple days ago.<p>I don't know what to do. Not only does this affect my employment situation but also my immigration situation. Not having a job impacts my ability to stay in the US.<p>I can't go back to my current team now as it will not only look ridiculous but my commitment will be questioned as well.<p>Please advise. I'm just really distressed and upset right now.
======
patio11
Talk to a lawyer and ask what "detrimental reliance" means. (Short version:
what you just did owing to representation that they had a job for you. Comes
with damages.)

Let your old company tell you you can't have your job back, don't make that
decision for them.

~~~
joboffer
I don't want to make a decision for my current company. They may even let me
have it back. I'm on very good terms with my team too and they were in fact,
disappointed to see me go.

I'd just hate myself to go back with my head hung in shame telling them that
'oh my job didn't work out'...take me back. I had a farewell lunch yesterday.
Everyone in my extended team knows I'm leaving. My exit interview is planned
for early next week and they're processing my final paystubs.

I can't believe this level of unprofessionalism exists.

~~~
frossie
_I had a farewell lunch yesterday._

Make a joke of it. If you get your job back, take all the same people out to
lunch. Play up the funny side. Give a "take me back" speech, "what was I
thinking" etc etc.

Laugh at yourself, and the world with laugh with you. With your immigration
status at stake, this is not the time to stand on some misplaced ego thing.

~~~
speby
Better yet, who cares? Take your chances and apply to YC. This must be your
calling.

~~~
jarek
Did you miss the part about OP's immigration status?

------
rantfoil
Posterous is hiring, and we love Ruby on Rails. Let me know if you'd like to
talk. Perhaps we can make lemonade from these lemons.
<http://posterous.com/jobs>

~~~
joboffer
Sent you an email. Thanks for reaching out.

~~~
rantfoil
Awesome, we will be in touch!

------
jacquesm
That really really sucks. This happens, fortunately not frequently. I take it
you have copies of all the documents and the preceding correspondence as well.

First order of battle is to be candid with your current employer to see if you
can get your old job back, you may have to promise them not to leave within
the next six months or so, conversely you can expect to be let go at any
moment.

Think of it as a stopgap measure.

Next stop after that is the office of a lawyer specializing in HR affairs.

Don't worry too much about looking ridiculous, you would look a lot more
ridiculous losing your dwelling or having no food on the table.

Pride is a virtue but fairly useless at this point in time.

------
yoak
I've been a hiring manager for hundreds of programmers over the years at
several companies. With the exception of maybe one or two people I was
preparing to get rid of anyway, if any one of the people who quit came back
during their notice period with this story I would insist that they stay and
fight fiercely with any other forces in the company that might resist it. It
also wouldn't lower my esteem for the person. I'd be happy that he or she felt
that he or she could come back. I _have_ been happy when they've come back.
It's never been as soon as this, but I've had people leave to try startups or
other jobs and had them not work out. The good ones leave to try things
sometimes. I'm happy to be good enough that when it sometimes doesn't work
out, even though it is a time to consider many options, they elect to come
back.

~~~
ciupicri
I think that it also depends on what terms people are leaving. It's one thing
to say you're leaving because you're starting a company and another thing
because you're sick of writing mundane database/web applications, using
Waterfall instead of Agile etc. or even worse because almost everything is a
mess.

~~~
yoak
It's certainly the case that if they're leaving because they're unhappy that
something is true and it is still going to be true when they consider
returning it would give me pause. :-)

Even then, it might be possible to convince me if they come back with a reason
they were wrong and think the thing is good (e.g. I tried Agile and discovered
it isn't better, and my actual problem was this...) rather than just, "I
decided to put up with it here..."

------
tworats
You should absolutely let it be known who this company is. If you're
uncomfortable do it anonymously. Rescinding an offer after a candidate has
quit an existing job is shameful and anyone doing it should be outed for all
potential candidates to know of.

Don't be embarrassed about asking for your old job back.

And ask the 50 person company to reimburse you - they should pay you for the
trouble they've caused. If they're not complete idiots they should agree to at
least a month's worth of salary, possibly more. Have them do it as a
consulting fee if they're not comfortable phrasing it as damages for their
rescinded offer.

~~~
bconway
_You should absolutely let it be known who this company is. If you're
uncomfortable do it anonymously. Rescinding an offer after a candidate has
quit an existing job is shameful and anyone doing it should be outed for all
potential candidates to know of._

What if a major funding event had fallen through, and the company rescinding
all outstanding offers and cutting expenses allows half of those 50 employees
to retain their jobs for another month? Truth is, you have no idea what's
going on at that company. These decisions _usually_ aren't made lightly. I say
this as someone that's been in the exact same position in the past. Move on,
holding a grudge will only hurt the OP.

~~~
logic
This exact situation happened with me prior to starting my current position.
Let me tell a short story.

I received a formal offer from the new organization, gave my notice at the
previous employer and closed out my projects, and made plans to spend a couple
of weeks having a proper several-years-delayed honeymoon with my wife, and
then a week visiting family and getting my head ready for the new role. As I
was waiting to board the plane to visit my family, I saw on the news that the
organization I was joining (government-funded) got a surprise during a weekend
political negotiating session, and had their budget for the remainder of the
year slashed by a ridiculous amount. This hit them hard enough that they were
already talking about furloughs and layoffs to the media, and had an all-hands
meeting about the issue scheduled.

By the time the plane landed, I had voicemail waiting for me from the fellow
who was going to be my new boss; as soon as _he_ heard what was happening, he
immediately started asking his superiors about outstanding offers, and was
informed in no uncertain terms that already-issued offers were being honored
(but obviously, no new offers would be issued), and he made sure I understood
that he was available for any questions I might have. I, along with everyone
else in the organization, experienced rolling furloughs for the next few
quarters, and a round of voluntary layoffs and additional emergency funding
finally helped them make it through until the next budget cycle.

That is precisely how you handle a situation like this: you honor your
obligations, and preferably do so proactively, and with a keen eye to how you
are impacting people who have placed their trust in you and your organization.

Reneging on your obligations, especially in a situation as nuanced as the
posters' (a suggestion to simply "move on" is much easier said than done when
you're on an H1B), is the definition of unprofessionalism, and is a direct
reflection on them as businesspeople. While I don't recommend he "out" them
because of how it might reflect on him later in his career, I'd be lying if I
said there wasn't a little voice of schadenfreude in the back of my mind
hoping he lets their name slip.

------
noahkagan
This happened to me at Google pre-ipo:( You are out of luck. In California job
positions are at-will... I'd most likely go back to your old company, look for
another one or just start a new company.

I know a few good Bay Area companies that are hiring if you are interested...

~~~
chegra
You mind sharing the details of your story?

------
justin
Might not have the taste any longer to join another startup, but Justin.tv is
hiring engineers and if you want to continue on to move to the Bay Area you
should check us out. /shameless plug

In any case remember tomorrow is another day and surely things will work out.

------
lippe_maia
One thing I would do is figure out whether they got some information about you
that made them not want to bring you on or whether some disruptive event
happened at the company. If there some information or misinformation out there
that would cause someone to rescind a job offer, it's very important that you
know about it.

Beyond that, it seems like you should find a job at another company or try to
get your old job back. A lawsuit seems really complicated and unlikely to get
much for you.

~~~
dotBen
It's a nice idea and worth asking but many employers are loathed to give
critical feedback these days for fear of being sued (and even more so if they
rescinded the offer and so the individual might have a case for damages)

------
qhoxie
Hi joboffer,

I'm an engineer at comparably-sized RoR based company in SF, and we are
looking for more people to join the team. If you'd like, please get in touch:
quin@scribd.com

I'd be interested in hearing about your goals and filling you in on the
engineering culture here.

~~~
joboffer
Emailed you.

------
zackola
+1 more for trying to get your job back. When I left my corporatey job of 5+
years to join a 10 person startup in August 2008 as I walked out the door on
my last day the CEO said something I'll never forget - "If you ever need a
job, just call me." Total class. If you've done good work for someone and they
aren't morons, of course they will want you back whether it's a year in the
future or a week :)

------
mattsoldo
The startup has committed what is known legally as "Promissory estoppel",
basically a broken promise. In general they are liable for any reasonable
expenses that you have incurred with the assumption that they would keep the
promise. If for example you had already moved to the bay area, you could file
a lawsuit to recover the cost of the move and the cost of moving back.

If you do want to get any monetary compensation from the company, I would
suggest bypassing the recruiter and speaking with a founder or executive at
the company directly. Hopefully they will be motivated to do the "right
thing", and they will certainly have an interest in preserving their
reputation.

~~~
abalashov
Good faith is usually an adequate defense to that, otherwise changing
circumstances of any kind, in any situation would turn into legal liabilities
universally, which is clearly untenable.

------
suhail
We're hiring, email us: jobs@mixpanel.com

~~~
jdbeast00
i know working for the man isn't popular around these parts, but if someone is
looking for a programming job in DC let me know. Its a govt job but I love
working here. Lots of freedom to work on projects that you want.

~~~
ciupicri
Government job for aliens?!

~~~
tjarratt
Based on the parent comment's username, I'm going to guess it's the X-Files.

JD-Beast? Government alien jobs? Something spooky is happening in D.C.

------
cloudkj
This exact thing happened to someone I know. He got a call right as he was
leaving his old job on his last day. The guy said something along the same
lines - due to changing circumstances, the original position we were offering
you has been eliminated. The guy was flabbergasted, of course, but just ended
up going back to the old company anyway. I'm pretty sure if you want, you can
get your job back. Unless you were leaving on bad terms or there's something
more to the situation.

To make it a little easier, you can just join another team at the same company
instead. That way it's a little less awkward.

------
tdfx
You really need to out the company that did this. If not for revenge, do it so
that they can't screw anyone else over in a similar situation.

~~~
jacquesm
No, sorry he should not do that. His situation is precarious enough as it is,
he should play his cards _very_ carefully and not do anything rash or out of
revenge.

------
fofofofo
Stick your tail between your legs and ask for your old job back. - Like the
old man always says: "It's best not to burn bridges".

~~~
jamesbkel
Ask for the old job back... but explain the situation, it doesn't sound like
there's any reason you need to 'stick your tail between your legs'.

------
mattmanser
Name and shame the buggers.

~~~
mpk
As much as I share this sentiment, I'd advise against it.

They were very unprofessional and left you in the lurch, but that's not a
reason for you to hit the blogs and start throwing mud.

In a few years this company may not even be around any more, but naming and
shaming with posts and comments on the net will be around long after this is
all a distant memory and that will reflect very badly on you wrt future
employers.

~~~
kls
I see it differently, personally my allegiance lies with other developers, it
is why I was respected even when I was in executive management. Personally, I
would feel that it is my responsibility to not let this happen to other
developers. Further it is not his responsibility to hid the actions of the
wrong. They where in the wrong not him, he should not have to protect their
reputation for fear of reprisal by some future employer. I would hire him if
he named the name of the company because it is not his duty to protect and
cover up their actions.

This is certainly a different case than airing a companies dirty laundry and
creating a whinny bitch fest just because you are unhappy with a company for
log hours, mismanagement or something similar. In this case a company showed a
clear disregard for their actions.

Further outing the company would make this post real in my mind. Color me
skeptical, but we all know that there is a lot of back room crap that goes on
with getting low wage immigrants in to fill positions. They go to great
lengths to do so. It would not at all surprise me if they are AstroTurf'ing
boards to scare existing visa holders into "staying put" (HN would be a good
place with our visa holder community). I would not put it past them and this
is just the kind of post that would do so. So with some real facts the story
becomes more credible until then I will remain at least partially skeptical.

------
mattew
People quit jobs all the time. For you, this is a big deal because you don't
quit jobs all that often. I suggest that you explain to your employer what
happened, and ask for your current job back. Chances are they will be happy to
have you back.

~~~
jacquesm
For him it is a big deal because his residence status depends on his
employment.

------
mdoar
> Stick to your existing employer. This event might be > embarrassing but
> everyone will get over it.

I agree. Once a company has made the offer, it's not illegal to withdraw it,
but it certainly shows a lack of organization and a scummy level of honesty.
Next time you want to jump, have the new company pay for moving costs and
immigration lawyer fees up front. That should stop them being such jerks
again.

------
gerakinis
If you have the job offer back from them, with their signature on it as well
your own, then I would also recommend outing the offending company... That is
probably one bridge you can afford to burn - and current and future employees
of the company all will probably see the information as valuable.

If you never got a signed copy of the job offer, then I would think your
options are fairly limited.

Best of luck, either way.

------
jemfinch
For a start, you could publicize the name of the faithless company and give
them some bad press (and prevent others here at HN from potentially
encountering the same problem).

------
nivertech
I don't know the situation in the US (I'm from Israel) and frankly last time I
was employee of someone others company was 8 years ago. But several times I
was hired before it was like this:

* If you know a person who hiring you - you shake a hand and consider it done (you sign employment, NDA and stock options contracts on the first days of your work).

* Otherwise you don't give a notice at your current place of work, until you sign a contract. Contract specify a mutual notice period, which can be somewhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. Usually it's 1 month. Once both sides signed the contracts, even if they don't hire you at the end - they owe you the notice period salary.

Going to lawyers is never a good solution - better to explain to them your
situation and ask for some compensation.

------
palehose
I have seen something similar happen to a co-worker who was starting at the
same time as me at a new job. When he was hired, he was promised a management
position with a higher salary than other developers, including myself. After
working at the company for a couple of weeks, the company said they did not
need him as a manager and wanted to reduce his salary to be the same as other
developers. The guy ended up going back to his old company and getting his old
job back because he was not willing to drop his salary requirement at the new
job.

------
b0o
If possible, could you post the name of the company that "hired" you, maybe
let others know so they'll think twice before joining that company?

Hopefully your old company will take you back!

------
jazzdev
The first startup I worked at made an offer to a summer intern to start the
following summer (after graduation). Then the economy went south and they had
to do a layoff. So in this case, they had to retract the offer. But they gave
the guy 1 or 2 months severance pay--same as they gave all the employees that
got laid off. I thought they handled that pretty well. And we wound up hiring
him a few years later when we were growing again.

------
sinamdar
There is some great advice already here. But here are a few things to ponder:
1\. I say good riddance. Better not to be working at this place. 2\. More
importantly, things could have been worse for your immigration status if you
would have joined this company and they would have eliminated your position
then. Now you at least have the option of going back to your current employer
without any hassle of visa transfers.

------
alivenbreathing
I can find you a position in less than a week. I work as an independent
contractor doing sourcing for a consultant recruiter. We are currently hiring
for several positions that your background would fit nicely with. Yammer,
Turn, Inc., and Chomp, are all companies looking for top talent like you. Some
of the companies we're hiring for relocate, some of them are down with
telecommuting, all of them have no problem helping immigrant geniuses stay in
the states. We find geeks their dream jobs, as my boss and I are both geeks
ourselves, we just haven't yet learned to manipulate space and time with code
like the people on this site have. You can find my LinkedIn profile
@<http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stephen-adams/2/212/839>, or you can contact me
direct at stephenadams88@gmail.com. No matter what, keep your head up and know
that with your background there's no reason to get discouraged about your job
prospects in this market.

------
joboffer
Thanks everyone for your supportive and helpful comments. I had interest from
another company when I accepted from this company that rescinded the offer. I
am following up with them to see if they're still interested.

I am also getting in touch with some of you who are hiring. The problem is I
have very little time to go back and make amends at my existing job - just
tomorrow.

This will be a long night...

~~~
startupcto
Depending on what sort of VISA you are on, I think it's most likely H1B, You
are fine. Don't worry so much. You have a 30 days window to find employment in
the US. If you found something else in the next few days, you can effectively
start working for the company with on the day you send in your new H1B
transfer documents.

I'm not a lawyer but I know this from past experience.

------
jdavid
Step one find something physical to do to burn off the stress.

After that, come back and read all of the great advice here.

I would go back to your boss, and say, "Hey I guess the offer really was too
good to be true. Do you know of any openings at the company, and smile? Can I
start Monday?"

Let's hope that works. As for SF I am not even a RoR developer and I get an
email/phone call once a week looking for someone. So if you don't get your job
back list SF as your home, and plan a trip out here. You should be able to
line up 5-10 interviews during a 2 week trip.

You probably want to look at companies that are large enough to have HR and to
cover relocation expenses.

I know that <http://www.castlighthealth.com/> is hiring RoR developers, and
pays well. My roommate seems to be pretty happy there.

Good Luck, and remember that the engineering manager at that other company
liked you, and may change companies at any time. Heck if this happens enough
to him, he might be looking for a new job right away. Don't burn bridges.

------
mynegation
At my former employer (small one, ~80 employees) we had a similar situation.
One of engineers left the company (with good-bye lunch and all) and showed up
back 2 weeks later. I don't know what happened (we weren't close enough for me
to ask just like that), and it was a basis for jokes for couple of weeks or
so.

But after a month everybody almost forgot about it.

------
euroclydon
I just wrote the following, but it doesn't really take into account your
immigration status. That's tricky.

I don't agree with the prevailing sentiment. Obviously you left for a reason,
and that reason still exists. It _would_ look ridiculous to go back.

I'm sure you'll get a few interviews out of this thread, and if you're good, a
new job. There's always risk changing jobs.

For an entrepreneurial crowd, it seems everyone here is forgetting that it's
risky to pursue something you want. I left a well paying job were I was liked
and performed well to go to a start up who is still paying me by the hour.
They even changed the start date a couple times after I already gave notice --
it was flaky behavior, and I told some people at my old job about it before I
left. They looked at me like I was crazy, but I wanted the new challenge. I
wanted to develop a product from the ground up, and if the new job hadn't
panned out, I would have found a way to be OK.

------
sortofalawyer
Almost the exact same thing happened to me about a year ago. Follow the advice
of making a joke of it and keeping your current job. Don't waste your money on
a lawyer. Almost every job offer is written with language indicating that it
is by no means a contract and is merely an offer of employment which can be
rescinded at any time.

------
Be-The-Water
Is there another side to this story, why did you quit your job in the first
place? Was the other job that much better?

I agree if it is a time constraint thing you have no choice in approaching
your prior company. But if not I would keep looking for something that fills
your need, like the Posterous post you will learn a lot more than just RoR.

Good Luck!

------
anigbrowl
You should certainly have all your paperwork ready to take to an immigration
lawyer specializing in employment cases. This is probably going to cost you
several thousand dollars - sorry.

If you don't already have one because your current employer took care of that
when you came, then hire one - even if you keep your current job, you should
not assume the matter is resolved. Even if your current employer says they'll
take care of the paperwork (or that no problem exists because you had not left
before this happened), you triggered the situation and it's your visa which
may be affected, so it's ultimately your responsibility to make sure it's
cleared up. Your employer's attorney is paid to think about your employer's
legal position, and may not be current or even conversant with handling such
cases for individual immigrants.

Start looking for an attorney with the American Immigration Lawyer's
Association, and talk to a few before you commit to an appointment - ensure
they have experience in this area, and consider asking for references. You
should also check with your employer about who their attorneys are, if only to
avoid an accidental conflict of interest if they use an outside firm and you
happen to call the same one! <http://www.ailalawyer.com/>

Technically your authorization to stay expires the day after you leave your
current employer, although it may take months to process the paperwork. If
they will take you back, that would of course be the best outcome. Put your
request in the form of a letter and keep a copy for yourself. It should
probably state honest credible reasons why you wanted to develop your career
elsewhere (beyond mere $$$), and obviously it should be respectful and
acknowledge what they've done for you in the past. Again, your attorney may
have valuable input. Even if your boss senses something in your body language
and asks you, then says you'd be welcome back, tell him you'd like to make a
formal written request - much better to generate paperwork now which an
immigration administrator can examine and approve at some future date, than to
have a confusing absence of paperwork about the situation if your employer's
records are inspected in the future.

As the company that let you down was smaller, it is possible they did not have
experience with the immigration paperwork, and backed out for that reason -
the rules are complex and are adjusted frequently. Do find out if they have
already filed anything on your behalf or not. It might actually make your life
simpler if they haven't, because generally the responsibility to straighten
out any administrative oddities is yours, not the government's. Sometimes I
read of people being placed in removal proceedings because of trivial errors
or contradictions in their file that were not noticed or acted on until years
later. There's no certainty of the HR manager or even the company in the Bay
Area still being around in the future, so an abandoned or canceled application
might come back to haunt you long after the firm had forgotten the whole
episode. Whether paperwork was filed or not, get the answer from the Bay Area
company _in writing_ \- indeed, it may be better to let the immigration
attorney do that for you, since s/he will know exactly what information to
request/confirm.

If your existing employer decides not to take you back, you _may_ be able to
file for a temporary extension of your visa called an I-539 because of the
unusual circumstances, which will cost at least $300 in filing fees. Again,
you need to consult an attorney who specializes in this area, who might
suggest a quite different strategy. I mention it only as an obvious
possibility - do _not_ rely on this information!

I'm not an attorney, let alone an immigration attorney, nor am I qualified to
give you any kind of legal advice. I just want to explain why it is so
important for you to get professional help even though it will cost you some
money.

Immigration matters have the potential to cause problems for you or a family
member in unexpected ways because immigration law is complex and the usual
assumptions about rights and obligations do not apply - your legal
relationship with the US govt. as a non-citizen is _entirely_ different from
that of a citizen. A regular employment attorney is not a good choice, and
they would likely refer you to an immigration attorney anyway - at least, they
should.

Also, the internet is a very poor source of information not just on legal
matters in general, but immigration in particular - some people with a dislike
of immigrants hang out on Q&A websites to give out deliberately misleading
advice or abuse people who ask. After spending a good part of this summer in a
law library, I'm horrified at how much misinformation is floating about. Hire
a pro - much cheaper to fix it now than later.

Sort out the immigration end first, and worry about recovering damages later.

------
ajju
[Removed bad advice about portraying this as a change of mind rather than a
rescinded job offer to his current employer]

Talk to the manager at your current company and tell him that you want your
job back or at least a longer notice period. They probably won't mind having
you around to do more knowledge transfer for a few more weeks and look for
another job.

Meanwhile, consider what patio11 said. IANAL and employment offers often have
a clause saying something about how they are non-binding etc, but I am not
sure how enforceable those terms are. You may indeed have a case.

Separately, start applying for jobs elsewhere. RoR is a valuable skill and
fresh from a successful (although unfortunate) interview, you are well placed
to ace more interviews.

Good luck!

~~~
rue
Bad advice, no need to lie about the situation.

~~~
ajju
Upon reconsideration, yes this was bad advice. When I read he is on a "work
visa" and in a bad situation due to job transfer problems, I automatically
assumed he was dealing with the worst kind of employers waiting to exploit
him. Clearly this is not the case most of the time.

So agreed, if he works for a good manager / employer, it is better to be
forthright.

I rescind my advice.

~~~
jacquesm
Classy.

------
gregpilling
From my point of view as a business owner, if they haven't replaced you
already, your old employer would likely welcome you back with open arms. Good
people are hard to find - and ones that know all your systems and
eccentricities are even harder to find. The biggest headache in hiring someone
is getting them up to speed and integrated into your company culture. This is
way more time and energy consuming than you might think. So if I was you old
employer I would bring you back - the only headache would be if I had replaced
you already or promoted one of your old co-workers. At a Fortune 500 company
they should be able to find some parallel position at least for you.

------
shajith
I agree with everyone else: try to get your old job back. Throw away the 'it
will look ridiculous' idea - none of this will matter in a couple of months.

If they were disappointed to see you go, they will welcome your return.

As another person who has had a similar experience before, and whose
immigration status is tied to employment, I can imagine how distressing this
must be[1]. I hope the general outpouring of support on HN eases your mind a
bit! Think it through clearly and move on.

1: In fact, I'm pretty much in the same situation as you were: accepted an
offer with a bay area company and undergoing the visa process, and this post
does give me pause. I'll respect your decision to not name names though.

------
SemanticFog
I'm sorry this happened to you, but you should realize it is a normal part of
startup life. Don't take it personally.

I would guess your potential employers are as unhappy about the situation as
you are. It's no fun to lay people off or rescind a job offer. It sucks almost
as much as being on the receiving end.

If you want to work in a startup again, don't hire a lawyer, and don't make a
huge deal out of it. There's only a miniscule chance you'll recover anything
significant, and you will certainly incur ill will.

If job stability is very important to you, then you should probably stay away
from smaller startups, where positions (and paychecks) can be very unstable.

------
poink
Don't worry so much about the "they will hate me" or "my team won't trust me"
angle unless you know that to be a fact. Most people understand that business
is business, management or not, and if you're a solid employee that your team
could use they're not going to be pissed that you got a better offer and
accepted. They'll just be happy to have you back so they don't have to replace
you.

I like the "make a joke of it" angle, but if you can't pull that off you
really should be fine with just being honest about what happened, assuming you
work with decent human beings. Story seemed reasonable enough to me.

------
dschobel
I'll play devil's advocate and ask-- so if they just fired him on the 2nd day
of work, it would have been kosher and everyone would go home happy? Where do
you draw the line when there's no employment contract?

------
esschul
So sorry to hear this. I don't know how the work situation is in the US, but
here in Norway it's quite common to get positions, even the really good ones,
thrown after you if you have the right resume.

Sit down and think what you want to do. If the position you were offered was
the dream job; locate a similar company and send them your resume. Or even
better, the best people is reading this very post. Put up a link to your
resume right here, and see what'll happen. Couldn't hurt(?).

------
mgentry11
I am a recruiter representing a few Ruby driven companies in SF. They can
handle VISAs for the right people. If you want send me your resume and I can
see if we can move fast. I have recruited 20 years and I have never had a
company I worked for pull the Visa unless they had a serious layoff. Feel free
to reach out to me on linkedin. <http://www.linkedin.com/in/markgentry/>

------
rhythmAddict
See if you can go back to your job, hopefully earlier than later (as in,
e-mail your boss if you have not already and tell him you have an important
matter to discuss). It's probably best of the HR side of the house does not
get too far along. That, or, you can respond to one of the many individuals
that said they were hiring (I'm not sure how much time you have/how much time
you can be without a job, in general).

Good luck and keep us posted.

------
chrisgoodrich
If you're good, I'm sure they'll take you back. The cost of hiring and ramping
a new employee to replace you is much higher than the cost of bringing you
back.

------
Jeema3000
I agree with everyone else: try to get your old job back. If they're
professionals (and you didn't burn any bridges), then they should realize that
it was nothing personal when you looked for other employment.

True, they may question your loyalty in the future, but if they like you, then
they will probably be relieved that you're staying. They might even try to
address whatever it was that made you look elsewhere to begin with...

------
igrekel
How is your relationship with your former boss?

When I switched jobs, my boss left me on leave for two months in case I
changed my mind.

------
chegra
What I would like to know is what is the name of this company that would hire
then rescind immediately.

------
digitalhobbit
Wildfire is hiring Ruby developers as well. Would love to chat with you about
this. Apply here: [http://wildfireapp.jobscore.com/jobs/wildfireapp/ruby-
develo...](http://wildfireapp.jobscore.com/jobs/wildfireapp/ruby-
developer/da0N00BDOr34uTeJe4bk1X)

------
mgentry11
I represent a company in California that needs top ruby people. Send me a
resume and let me see what we can do. We can move fast for the right person. I
also know other companies in SF that need Ruby guys if you are good there are
opportunities out here.

------
loewenskind
>my commitment will be questioned as well

Why? If they laid you off and then said "oh, we found the money and we need
you to stay" would you doubt their commitment more? It should be the same
before as after. We work to make money, you didn't marry this company.

------
djhworld
I doubt your current company will have any issues with you retracting your
resignation, it costs them more to hire a new employee/train them up and so
on, so just go and speak to them I'd imagine they'd be happy for you to stay

------
HowardRoark
1\. Start looking. 2\. Explain to your manager your reasons for leaving and
what actually happened. 3\. Tell the new company that you are politely calling
out their name. And see what they think.

------
zabraxias
Wow, I talked to a recruiter for startups and we're in the process of
something similar. I too am risking my status in the states by switching.

So...anyone need a Django + front-end dev on a project basis?

------
khangtoh
We're hiring a Rails backend developer too, working on dome really fun and
social games on the iPhone. I'm guessing you 're not from the bay area and
we're located in Pittsburgh PA.

------
csomar
I know that you'll look ridiculous when you get back to your old job (if you
did). But trust me, it's a lot better than staying JOBLESS especially in this
economy.

~~~
jacquesm
Especially if it means being kicked out of the country. Being jobless is only
a part of the problem here.

------
jeffrey-change
Use your powers for something good. We're hiring:

<http://www.change.org/jobs_at_change#ruby-hacker>

------
bpo
joboffer: CrowdFlower is hiring senior Ruby on Rails devs. I'd love to talk to
you about your goals if you have time. Drop me a line brian@crowdflower.com

------
fady
I agree with everyone here. Ask for you old job back, they should understand.
If all works out, please blog about the experience in more detail...

------
known

        I can't go back to my current team now as it will not only look ridiculous
    

You need eat a humble pie and stick with the current team.

------
lien
there's no reason why you have to tell your current employer that your offer
was retracted. tell them you've given the new job a second thought and that
you feel that belong where you are.

you can't sue in this situation because i'm sure somewhere inside the offer
letter it says the new job/company has the ability to terminate employment at
will.

------
dstein
Ya it's a pretty dick move, especially given your immigration situation. I'd
out em... politely.

------
tibbon
I know ChallengePost is looking for a Sr Rails developer in NYC if you're up
for relocation.

------
KeepTalking
Its just awesome to see people randomly offer to help. Speaks volumes of the
people here !

Bravo Bravo

------
onan_barbarian
Cultivating a thicker skin would be wise. Would you leave the US because
you're embarrassed to go back to your old job?

Possibly if you're at a large enough company, you might be able to split the
difference and find a job at another team within the same company...

------
charlesju
joboffer

Please email me ASAP, we're in desperate need of more RoR engineers.

~~~
joboffer
Your email isn't in the bio. Could you please reply with it?

------
earl
After talking to a lawyer, burn the company. Post here and on a blog and email
TC. Assholes should be called out, and fucking with someone's life like this
is indefensible, doubly so when he or she has visa requirements. Remember in
the US, truth is a defense to libel. And you're doing this not for yourself,
but for karma, helping all the future employees this company will screw over.

Finally, if you want an sf area rails job, contact scribd -- I literally can't
imagine them treating an employee this way. And some of the other big rails
shops too; I can't give you an exhaustive list, but maybe start with
hashrocket (this isn't a rec, I just know the name), pivotal (in the bay area,
have a cool product we use at work), etc.

gl

~~~
millz
It may be satisfying to, as you suggest, "burn" the company; but it's also
unprofessional. Granted, the startup that rescinded the job offer was behaving
unprofessionally, and may even be civilly liable for it's actions, but that
does does not mean that you should respond in kind.

~~~
cma
Huh? Why would he want to subject anyone else to the same thing he was
subjected to? By not naming them, he just screws over the next guy.

~~~
mulch
+1

A rescinded job offer is a big deal, particularly given the guy's immigration
status. I assume this was discussed and that he'd need to transfer his H1B.
The company by then would've known he had handed in his notice and any HR
person should know this potentially triggers immigration issues.

Name them and shame them I say.

Like you say, this may indicate the company is in trouble financially so any
existing employees and potential applicants should be aware of this.

------
ashitvora
I know it is ridiculous but with your immigration status at stake, don't think
of all these. Just go and talk to your current boss.

Also, once you get your job back, send
[http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:yR0N5a0R8puacM:http://www...](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:yR0N5a0R8puacM:http://www.biffbang.de/_myspace/fuck-
you-guys.jpg&t=1) to the company who retracted the offer.

~~~
jacquesm
> send
> [http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:yR0N5a0R8puacM:http://www...](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:yR0N5a0R8puacM:http://www..).
> to the company who retracted the offer.

That would be extremely unwise. If there is _one_ take home lesson from all of
this, it is that you _NEVER_ burn your bridges, no matter what.

It's a small world, and you just might have to rely on that person you gave
the finger last week tomorrow.

Spectacularly bad advice this.

