

Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs - imack
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/starting-out/canada-designs-new-visa-for-immigrant-entrepreneurs/article4537339

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refurb
"...and intends to initiate a visa that would be issued to people identified
by venture capital funds as candidates to create startup firms in Canada."

Anyone else find this to be an odd way to go about it?

VC firms have distinctly different goals when funding companies than the
people actually running the company.

I guess it raises some questions for me:

(1) Is there a floor to how much funding is required? For lack of a better
term, does the start-up have to have X numbers of years of runway to qualify?
(2) What happens to the entrepreneur if the VC firms decides to turf them? Do
they get to stay or are they required to leave the country? (3) Does the
entire start-up team get visas? The article mentions how the old e-ship visa
has been put on hold. So if a founder gets VC funding, starts the company, but
wants to bring in more foreign workers, can they?

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great idea and it is exactly what the US
should be doing as well. There are just a lot of unanswered questions for me
and I wonder how well it will work in practice.

~~~
doublerebel
Last I looked a few months ago, the minimum investment was $750K CAD. Now it
is $800K, with a $1.6MM CAD net worth. Citzenship and Immigration Canada "will
return your C$800,000 investment, without interest, about five years and two
months after payment." [1] I think it is important to note that their foreign-
invested business programs have become backlogged in processing, and have been
holding onto the life savings of many Chinese citizens since 2007. [2]

The article hints that small teams will be accepted, but also says _"Canada
seeks ... immigrants who will contribute to Canada’s job growth"_ , so the
number of Canadian employees will be the deciding factor along with the amount
generated for the economy.

From my experience with US friends who have Canadian work visas, Canada is
strict and will not allow foreigners to remain long without an employee
sponsor. It's also difficult to acquire citizenship without several years of
residence. I would guess that hiring foreigners will be accepted as long as
the investment amount is high, but the likelihood that they will become
permanent residents is very low.

[1]
[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/investors/in...](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp)

[2] [http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/12/chinese-citizens-
dem...](http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/12/chinese-citizens-demand-
refunds-from-p-e-i-immigration-program-after-ottawa-rejects-visa-
applications/)

~~~
sedachv
> It's also difficult to acquire citizenship without several years of
> residence.

You need a spend a certain amount of time living in Canada as a permanent
resident (3 years, non-contiguous, although this figure may be out of date) to
be eligible for citizenship, but if you have permanent residency you have
almost the same rights as a citizen. It's getting the permanent resident
status that's hard. There is no requirement to live in Canada under another
visa to obtain permanent residency - you can apply for and obtain permanent
residency status from your home country before arriving in Canada. That's how
the majority of non-family sponsored people immigrate to Canada.

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brightsize
From what I can tell, this wouldn't help me one bit. I'm an American who would
love the opportunity to found a startup in Canada. That means being there from
conception to MVP. But it sounds like this plan will only allow a pretty
advanced company, one that has gained the interest of VCs, to move there. If a
company was founded elsewhere and was that far along, why would the team move
it to Canada? Furthermore, what of startups that don't require VC money, is it
really in Canada's best interest to put out the "Not Welcome" mat for them? I
think the country needs to devise a program that lets the next non-resident
Jobs/Woz or Gates/Allen to set up shop in their Canadian garage and get to
work without any of this VC-related nonsense here.

~~~
grannyg00se
"If a company was founded elsewhere and was that far along, why would the team
move it to Canada? "

Good question. But I'd also ask why, as an American, would you love to found a
startup in Canada? What advantage over starting it in the US?

~~~
freshhawk
I assume it would be the obvious one: getting to live in Canada :)

~~~
brightsize
Correct. I think it's a wonderful country in a great many ways and it would be
a pleasure to live there. I was recently in Toronto and was surprised to find
that it has a solid startup scene. I'd never heard that about the city, I'd
just assumed it was full of back-office banking jobs for techies like me. I
met some potential partners there and if/when something clicks, I'll still
enjoy zero rights to be colocated with a Toronto-based team. There's the
possibility of getting TN status I suppose but that's intended for employees,
not founders.

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DaniFong
As a Canadian now living in Silicon Valley I think this is a perilous idea.

The main problem is that Canada doesn't have near enough active VC investors.

Hardly anywhere does, even Silicon Valley.

Having them be the sole gatekeepers will fall far short of what's possible.

~~~
otoburb
The government is grasping for straws. It seems they were pretty desperate to
close the previous e-visa loophole that was being clearly exploited and come
up with a new idea.

Given it's only 2750 visas/yr, I like to think this is the Canadian
government's version of an MVP that VCs and Canadian startup communities have
lobbied hard for.

Maybe they'll find ways to expand or relax the qualifying restrictions in the
future.

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verelo
As an immigrant and entrepreneur in Canada, I'm less than impressed by this
new visa class.

This visa means you can work for your own company, in Canada, provided it has
funding from a VC. Lets reword that a bit and it sounds like "You can work for
a specific company, in Canada, provided you have an offer letter"

Honestly if Canada wants to do something truly innovative, they should look at
the track record of applicants rather than simply saying "get a VC to sponsor
you". Things like: have they received funding previously, do they have
relevant experience, have they got any revenue or "traction" on their current
idea, how have they validated their current idea and whats the chance of it
getting funding...are all great places to start.

The bottom line: there are plenty of people without VC funding who Canada
should welcome, and this visa offers no assistance to. Sadly if Canada doesnt
let them in, someone else will, and with VCs in the US getting more
comfortable with non North American investments, maybe this doesnt change
anything?

~~~
untog
_Honestly if Canada wants to do something truly innovative, they should look
at the track record of applicants rather than simply saying "get a VC to
sponsor you". Things like: have they received funding previously, do they have
relevant experience, have they got any revenue or "traction" on their current
idea, how have they validated their current idea and whats the chance of it
getting funding...are all great places to start._

But... isn't that exactly what a VC would do? While I absolutely do understand
the frustration with VCs being the gatekeepers for this, it's much more
preferable to the government holding the keys. They would be useless at
assessing "idea traction" for example, and I'm glad they know enough to not
try.

As someone in the US on an H1B visa who left Canada because of visa
restrictions, this does look very interesting- even if it's just a starting
point. I just got back from a weekend in Vancouver- I'd forgotten how much I
love that city.

~~~
verelo
Yeah i see your point. I just mean, if Canada wants to attract the best
people, the best way for this to happen would be for them to create a visa
thats open and slightly more "risky" (its the nature of the game)

I have a B1/B2 visa as well, and in general ive never had any real visa issues
but I just feel that with all the options available to people today, you need
to do more than say "if the VC says yes, so do we"

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supersaiyan
As a recent Waterloo grad, 95% of my friends have moved to US (California,
Seattle, NY); the problem isn't trying to attract more talent, rather building
infrastructure to retain it. Honestly, I love living in Canada, but there are
fewer high paying jobs and its much more difficult to get funding for
startups.

~~~
jayfuerstenberg
True, most successful Canadian startups get bought out by American investors
anyway and moved to the States.

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qdpb
A better summary of the article would be "Canada planning to make it harder
for entrepreneurs to immigrate".

Otherwise one could think that progress is being made. Whereas it looks like
Canada doesn't even want entrepreneurs; instead it wants "hot" companies to
move to Canada (see VC requirement and just 2750 visas/year).

~~~
4clicknet
I had an hour-long chat with a guy from Canada's Federal Economic Development
Agency who I met at a startup event and still keep in touch with. I suggested
to him that they should copy the Startup Chile program to get entrepreneurs
into Canada and create some buzz. He politely insisted that Canada's current
programs are innovative and adequate. I know this is just one anecdotal data
point, but it fits the cliche of the don't-rock-the-boat/cover-your-ass
government employee and I wasn't too surprised. I wonder how Chile was able to
overcome government inertia and get their program off the ground?

~~~
qdpb
By "current programs" did he mean existing entrepreneur program that was put
on hold, or proposed entrepreneur program that is yet to be implemented?

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evoxed
Boy, would I _love it_ if Japan would do something like this!

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patdryburgh
My boss was involved in preparing the draft proposal that this bill is based
on. He has over a decade of experience on both sides of the VC/start up fence.
His experience bringing the team that created Summify to Canada from Romania
was a catalyst for this bill. Like all things, it is not perfect, but it is a
step in the right direction.

~~~
untog
Agreed. As someone who was pushed out of Canada because of visa restrictions
back in 2008 (and has been living in NYC since), I'm glad to finally see some
steps being made here. By coincidence I just got back from a weekend back in
Vancouver and had forgotten how much I miss the place- but as someone more
tech-oriented, I'm still working out how this could play to my advantage.

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raverbashing
Reality Check

Canada's backlog of (immigration) Visas is huge, and they are apparently not
keeping up with it

Check the website and see the average delays in processing.

Apparently Canada has almost everything that is needed to have great startups,
except the culture (and maybe the drive).

