
Bringing AMP to Gmail - artsandsci
https://www.blog.google/products/g-suite/bringing-power-amp-gmail/
======
pmlnr
I genuinely fear the future of email. Email is still the only piece of
communication you can own, from top to bottom, from running the service to
owning the domain[^1] it runs on. You were able to send anyone email,
regardless of rank, location, social status.

Google (and recently, Outlook) is taking all of it away. It's putting mail
from people not on your contact list in spam[^3]; it's by default blaclisting
IPs within certain range[^2]; now it's bringing it's own format as well.

Is this embrace, extend, extinguish, Google style?

[^1]: let's not get into the problem of DNS never really being owned, only
rented, for now

[^2]:
[https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Microsoft_Blacklist/en](https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Microsoft_Blacklist/en)

[^3]: only experienced it, friends did as well, but I don't have proof.

~~~
randomString1
Email is already fucked. In my experience Gmail often failed to receive emails
from services like Yandex and Zoho. Plenty of people here that setup their own
servers, and know what they are doing, getting randomly blacklisted.

Maybe it's fine if email is not central to your life or business but if
there's even a, let's say, 10% chance of my emails not getting delivered to Mr
Google I have no other option than to bend the knee.

~~~
kuschku
On the other hand, I’ve had only good experiences with self-hosting my email.

I’ve never had issues with being blacklisted or anything.

But I’ve been sending with SPF + DKIM + DMARC + ADSP all configured and
enabled since day one, and with TLS transport for all sent emails.

That usually gives a major boost in trustworthiness.

~~~
megous
Unless your IP address is deemed being in a bad block. Then all of the above
is not even checked (on outlook.com, that is).

------
nugi
Can you just mine my data unobtrousively instead of screwing with every
service I stupidly provide my lifes details? Already migrating, not because of
the obvious privacy issues, but useability. How can a company that profits by
knowing what people think and talk about, see so little of the house
collapsing around them? Even free isn't cheap enough, it has to work.

I think I speak for a fair number of HN readers when I say, Literally
everything google offered 10-15 years ago was better. Talk, gmail, voice,
search (with booleans!). Its all a wasteland now, begotten and forgotten for
sweet advertising and big data deals.

~~~
halflings
> I think I speak for a fair number of HN readers when I say, Literally
> everything google offered 10-15 years ago was better. Talk, gmail, voice,
> search (with booleans!). Its all a wasteland now, begotten and forgotten for
> sweet advertising and big data deals.

Eh... I think you should speak for yourself and convince with arguments
instead.

How are these products worse? Search gives much more relevant users, pretty
much killed SEO as a thing, now using page size and performance as metrics to
push mobile-friendly websites higher when you're on your mobile.

Gmail is just significantly better in every way.. including privacy: They
stopped using emails for ads. [0]

Of course, RIP Google Talk, but Voice is much better now, with a VoIP option
coming soon.[1]

[0] [https://www.bloomberg.com/.../google-will-stop-reading-
your-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/.../google-will-stop-reading-your-emails-
for-gmail-ads) [1] [https://9to5google.com/2017/01/26/google-voice-voip-
integrat...](https://9to5google.com/2017/01/26/google-voice-voip-integration-
update/)

------
dannyw
With AMP for Email, Google is keeping users within Gmail when when they’re
interacting with your website or service.

The strategy of Google / AMP is clear: using its monopoly to convert the open
web into properties of Google.

AMP is as “open” as Adobe Flash (Flex, etc) is open. Sure, it may he open
source, but it is encumbered by license keys (see: AMP Cache), special
privileges (again see: Google search cache), and development totally in
control by Google.

~~~
djsumdog
It's like we're back in the days of AOL keywords

~~~
ramses0
Wouldn't that be a bitter end for google?

------
rinze
> This new spec will be a powerful way for developers to create more engaging,
> interactive, and actionable email experiences.

Thanks, mutt, for sparing me all this pain.

------
newscracker
For those who are frustrated by this, if you can, please show others that
there are other options (just like you have done with DuckDuckGo) and switch
to any of these (listing only those that are cheap enough to have multiple
mailboxes without spending several hundred dollars a year):

1\. Posteo.de

2\. Mailbox.org

3\. Tutanota.com

4\. Protonmail.ch

I know some people can run their own setup. The above are for people who
cannot or do not want to do it.

~~~
avtar
Fastmail is a great alternative as well.

~~~
newscracker
I've heard many people say good things about Fastmail, and I'm sure its worth
the praise it gets. But I personally don't recommend it because it gets very
expensive if you need more than a couple of mailboxes. The services I listed,
at least Posteo and Mailbox, are significantly cheaper for those who need
separate mailboxes (not aliases on a single account). I moved from Gmail/Yahoo
more than a year ago for just two of my primary mailboxes (one personal and
one shared) and it costs me a fraction of what a single mailbox on Fastmail
would.

------
asah
Why the negativity? If google doesn't innovate in open web technologies, then
closed systems will win, in this case Slack. Sure, bummer that they used the
much-maligned "AMP" name and double-bummer that they didn't build a coalition
among email client-writers first, incl Outlook.

My assumption us that AMP4email will get replaced by a truly-open standard
(aka multi-vendor support), following the same path as Google's early R&D
efforts in browser local storage and improved networking.

Google: what I'd really like to see is a way to authenticate between email
sender-receiver (perhaps a one-time, OAuth-like dance with a website?). In
addition to nuking certain forms of phishing attacks, users could [reasonably
safely] conduct e-commerce inside the email client (much faster, more
consistent etc)... kinda like wechat, etc.

~~~
ken
> If google doesn't innovate in open web technologies, then closed systems
> will win

Besides the question of relevance (why do we care about web technologies in
email, when studies have shown that most people prefer plain text, anyway?),
this sounds like a straight up Appeal to Consequences.

------
amiga-workbench
Jesus christ, can we pack it in with the hyperactive-web I just want to read a
bit of text without the page screaming and dancing.

------
jwilk
I read the post and I have still no idea what is this about.

They say that the spec is available. But where? They link to
[https://github.com/ampproject](https://github.com/ampproject) , which is just
a list of projects, none of which seem relevant.

~~~
adewale
The spec is here:
[https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/13457](https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/13457)

~~~
jwilk
Thanks! I see the link in the blog post is now fixed.

------
Aaargh20318
How about offering an opt-out for AMP before piling on more crap ?

~~~
jonmarkgo
I noticed that AMP has recently started adding 'apps' to my launcher in
Android. I visited Vimeo.com in mobile Chrome and then suddenly a Vimeo app
icon with a little AMP symbol showed up in my launcher without any opt-in.

~~~
ReverseCold
I think that's Android instant apps, not amp. It's a new Android feature that
let's you use supported websites in their native app without having to
download the app.

I'm not sure why it showed up on your home screen; it's not supposed to do
that. What phone/launcher/Android version are you using?

------
jacquesm
> engaging, interactive, and actionable

I don't want my emails to be 'engaging, interactive, and actionable', I just
want them delivered with a minimum of fuss and preferably in plain text.

All this marketing bullshit is getting old.

------
oldpond
Google brings their advertising machine to email. Goodbye gmail. Can't say I'm
surprised.

------
bluedino
No, no, no.

Google is trying to turn Gmail into a platform.

~~~
guitarbill
Seems like they didn't get the message with Google+.

------
siavash
What really are the long term motivations for Google to promote and push AMP
so much?

~~~
oldpond
Get 'em hooked on something 'free', then monetize it. Rinse and repeat. Just
like they are building a browser that only blocks the 'annoying ads', now they
are designing their email to let advertising through. So much for 'don't be
evil'.

~~~
siavash
Things can be both monetized and 'free' and I don't think it necessarily has
to be evil simply therefore. What I'm curious about is how they intend/could
monetize it?

AMP is afaik an open web format, what's the "get 'em hooked" part here? Is it
just a defensive play against Facebook's Instant Articles?

------
tandav
The UI of site is total crap full of dickbars.

~~~
mediumdeviation
It's amazing how the world's largest internet company cannot build a good
blog. I don't know why Google is so insecure it thinks it needs to resort to
the same tactics used by third-rate blogspam sites to keep users reading their
blog posts.

This is what the site looks like with both sticky bars open on my 900px high
screen. This is atrocious.
[https://i.imgur.com/o5hcENG.png](https://i.imgur.com/o5hcENG.png)

------
russell_h
This looks like an an evolution of the action buttons Gmail has supported for
years: [https://gmail.googleblog.com/2013/05/take-action-right-
from-...](https://gmail.googleblog.com/2013/05/take-action-right-from-
inbox.html)

------
odammit
Ok I fold. I’m switching back to regular old postal mail.

~~~
carlivar
You can also fax memos. For intra office, pneumatic tubes.

~~~
odammit
Some start up somewhere has pneumatic tubes and some little beautiful nerd is
hacking them into something cool and/or funny.

I’m a little jealous.

------
odammit
I’m curious, what you all think the future of email is?

I am finding that I use it less and less each year. How much are you using it
compared to previous years?

\- My friend communication is done almost strictly through messaging services

\- work communication is done through Slack and Jira (yuck)

I feel like email for me has become this awkward auth-proxy.

It’s how I magic link in, “confirm” who I am, reset my password, or get
spammed by marketers.

~~~
OberstKrueger
I use e-mail just as much today as I did 10-15 years ago. Some communication
takes place in real-time messaging services, but e-mail is still useful for
long-form communication, and less timely messages. IMing can't replace e-mail
for me for all purposes.

~~~
crustyapple
My experience has been similar. IM is nice for quick questions when the other
user is at their desk, but for anything important it has to be done over
email/paper.

------
strict9
And this blog post is a brilliant metaphor for why I stopped clicking amp
links a long time ago.

A much larger than necessary header that bounces up and down as you scroll,
with a insanely massive related articles sticky footer.

AMP is a scourge on the web and now they want to extend the plague to email?
Please Google, just leave email alone.

------
77pt77
The potential for malicious abuse of this is almost endless.

I feel very sorry for the state of email.

An interesting concept with very antiquated technology that is getting more
and more centralized.

Having a personal/corporate server and interacting with the big boys (Google,
Microsoft, even yahoo) is getting more and more difficult.

------
andy_ppp
I am very down on AMP. I did indeed think they would try to embrace and extend
the web to be inside their own walled garden. If I was a publisher who didn't
control my content or even Pinterest I would be genuinely terrified.

------
dbolgheroni
> AMP for Email will also make it possible for information to easily kept up-
> to-date, so emails never get stale and the content is accurate when a user
> looks at it.

So it seems like a regular webpage but within Gmail.

------
jnordwick
So this is just blantantly breaking email for non Gmail clients is sounds
like. I was actually already thinking or trying anther email provider out of
curiosity anyways. The problem is gmail is already so locked into my phone and
everything. I can't even completely remove gmail from there either.

Meta: My top two stories on HN right now are Google press releases. Just
rename HN to Google News are be done with it.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
FWIW, Google stories are almost always newsworthy, and hence, belong highly
positioned on HN. Though from the comments, at least on this one: Most of the
comments are negative/critical.

Bad news is also news.

------
therealmarv
So with AMP for email can I run timer based or mouse movement based modifying
email contents??? When yes: spam mails will love it.

~~~
strictnein
And based on Google's prioritization of AMP results in search, I wonder if
they'll offer some sort of benefit to emails supporting AMP? If so, spammers
will be the first ones on board.

Want to see some examples of the most fully configured SPF, DKIM, etc records?
Look at spam. The big boys take advantage of it all.

------
CodeSheikh
Would I be able to unsubscribe directly from whatever marketing email I
received instead of marking it as spam and have Gmail AI suggesting me to
unsubscribe or me having to go to the unsubscribe web-page of the marketing
campaign?

------
antirez
I wonder if there is some part of the tech stack Google is not willing to mess
with, imposing solutions because of the user base and not necessarily by
technical merits and sane complexity/gain balance.

------
mtgx
"We heard you like our browser, so we put _another browser_ inside our
browser."

And you thought email phishing was bad _now_. Wait until this thing goes live.

------
activatedgeek
Does somebody know what is happening with Inbox by Gmail? Every new feature
seems to be done with Gmail and Inbox seems like out of development or
dormant.

------
crtasm
Will adblockers be able to prevent the AMP version being displayed, at least?
Or does it look like gmail web interface will only serve that version?

------
fancyfacebook
AOL 2.0

------
yread
Does anyone else see glitches in the GIF of booking.com (specifically the Arc
de Triomphe)

------
aerique
I gave up reading that page with all the animations going on.

------
l9k
Looks like a way to show more dynamic ads

------
whyagaindavid
For all the criticism of Google/Gmail/AMP at least the spec is open. AMP
allows me to browse with minimal data.

~~~
hollerith
The spec for at least one MS-Word format is open, too, but that does not mean
I would like for every email sent to me through gmail to be in that format.

I interpret this announcement from Google as a sign that the default format
for emails sent from gmail, which is now basically plain text (and HTML via
MIME's multipart/alternative) will some day, when Google is ready, change to
some complicated thing that requires the user to consent to Javascript's
running on his machine before he can view his message, same as it is now for
web pages.

It would be prohibitively tedious for me to persuade everyone who send me
email through gmail to go into gmail's settings and switch the format back to
plain text. And even if I succeed, Google has at its disposal various dark
patterns, e.g., resetting the setting back to AMP every now and then (which
please note would not be noticeable by the sender unless I tell him).

~~~
whyagaindavid
But sadly that doc format cannot be opened reliably.

------
hungerstrike
And just yesterday I was searching for a way to get further away from AMP.

For now, the only way is to always ask for the Desktop Site when I search.
Unfortunately, iOS Safari doesn't allow me to set this per site and I have to
do it manually every single time I search.

~~~
kuschku
Use Firefox Mobile, Google hasn’t deployed AMP for that yet.

~~~
hungerstrike
You can't really use a third party browser on iOS because Apple forces all
links from their irreplaceable apps to open in Safari.

