
San Francisco or Palo Alto for a new startup? - waleedka

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gibsonf1
Go for San Francisco:

1\. _Space_ The rents are actually in many cases less here than in other parts
of the valley. (My office is $1 per s.f. per month!) A huge building boom is
finishing up in the SOMA area of the City with hundreds (maybe 1000+) new
apartments entering the market. This is good news for downward pressure on
rental prices.

2\. _Convenience_ : Within walking distance of both my office and my apartment
are countless restaurants, markets, office supplies, banks, etc etc. You can
simply walk to what you need saving _so_ much time over driving around on
errands in rush hour traffic in the South Bay. There are countless take-out
food restaurants open until late at night to keep you coding with a reasonable
diet, with many delivering to your door. (Chinese takeout costs about $7 for a
main item - roughly $10 for a meal)

3\. _Coolness_ : There are a lot of web companies in the city because it is
such a great place to live. Attracting hackers to work for you may be easier
here. Even the Large Corporate Web companies are setting up major operations
in the City:

<http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2007/01/15/story22.html>
<http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2005/08/yahoo_leasing_san_francisco_of.html>

4\. _Life Style_ : For those moments when you're not all-nightering on a
problem, you have many options here: a. Sailing in the Bay b. Biking - across
the Golden Gate and you are into nature in no time. c. Beach - Many beaches in
the area d. Skiing - As close as 2.5 - 3 hours away for some great slopes. d.
Symphony/Opera/Theater/Movies galore, etc etc etc e. Night Life - Live music,
etc etc etc. f. Wine Country - Only an hour drive to Napa County/Sonoma County
- countless vineyards - great wine.

5\. _Variety_ : San Francisco has many different neighborhoods that have
entirely different cultures. A few blocks in different directions will let you
experience the unexpected. (Usually good, ocassionally bad)

6\. Ok, you're right, I'm biased. I love living in the City.

7\. Downside: The VC's and many angels are in the South Bay, but thats only a
30-40 min. drive away - or Caltrain ride.

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menloparkbum
The Yscraper is in a lame part of San Francisco, if you are a young person.
The building is lame, too... unless you like living in an apartment that is
like a college dorm or old folks home.

Regarding SF vs Palo Alto. SF is way more fun. But keep in mind historical
patterns. How many successful startups have been started in SF? How many have
been started up in the valley?

Valley based startups are more successful, simply because there is nothing
else to do down there.

~~~
RyanGWU82
What do you find lame about North Beach? I kinda like that part of town
myself.

~~~
menloparkbum
In Manhattan terms, it is a "bridge and tunnel" part of town. That is, nothing
happens until the weekends - when all the tourists and people coming in from
Pinole or Fremont show up to party. The locals are pretty sketchy - lots of
tweaker cab driver or bartender types. The tourist party animal types are kind
of gross also - many 2nd tier businessmen coming into town to get wasted and
go to all the strip clubs.

I much prefer the mission for nightlife and neighborhoods like Cole Valley for
living.

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felipe
I think it depends on the focus of your startup. My perception is that SF is
more media-centric, with lots of designers and media professionals, while
South Bay is more "nerdy" and enterprise-centric, with lots of hardcore
hackers.

Regarding "where to live": I currently live in Mountain View, but I would move
to SF if I could afford (although MV is not that cheap either!). SF is an
awesome city.

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abstractbill
I live in Mountain View and go to SF for fun, of which there is plenty to be
had.

Rent is a factor of course. I'm currently in a nice 2-bed town-house close to
downtown mv, for $1700/month.

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acgourley
Has anyone ever been slightly anxious with regards to the city, and then
gotten over it? I grew up in a small town and whenever I go into sf, I just
don't like it all that much. (I suspect this has something to do with the area
of town around the Warfield, Fillmore, GAMS, etc). Is there anywhere that its
easy to keep (and work on) a car while still being fairly connected to the
rest of the city?

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SwellJoe
I find Mountain View a good fit. Close enough to investors. Far enough away
from anything resembling real night-life (because I'm here to work...really,
really, work). I'll move to the city when I don't want to work anymore. I'm
sure the city works for some startups, but I don't think it would work for me.

~~~
felipe
No night-life in MV? C'mon, how about Molly McGee?? :)

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yaacovtp
How soon do you want to go broke? The Bay Area is a big place and all you need
to get started is a laptop.

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waleedka
I'm moving to Silicon Valley to work on my startup and be closer to the
entrepreneurial community. Should I rent in San Francisco or somewhere around
Stanford? How about the YScraper?

~~~
rms
Consensus seems to be "Live in San Francisco, commute to the Valley."

San Franciso is a much cooler place to be than Palo Alto/Menlo Park/Mountain
View. YScraper's probably a good bet, I imagine it's getting pretty popular
though.

~~~
waleedka
Anyone owns a car in San Francisco? Or should I sell my car?

~~~
gibsonf1
I own a car, but use it only for driving to meetings (where a bike jersey is
not the appropriate attire), shopping, or leaving town. The transit system
here is very good, and the bike lane system is getting better all the time
(the bike lobby has growing political clout in the city). Also, parking is a
__& ^ _^ as the city uses tickets as a big revenue stream, so if you are
illegal for only a few minutes, you'll get a ticket. You will also save time
by not having to park.

The downside is that the Muni rail system is not entirely reliable. Normally
it takes me 30 minutes from door to door via Muni (N line - when it's raining
which isn't that often), but it can take up to 50 if there is a problem which
is about 20% of the time. (Biking takes me 20 minutes or less). Of course if
you work out of your apartment, commuting is a non issue.

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veritas
Where is the "YScraper"? I'm looking to move out to the area and wouldn't mind
joining the entrepreneurial crowd in YScraper.

~~~
zach
It's no secret if you watch justin.tv a little:

<http://www.google.com/search?q=crystal+tower%2C+san+francisco>

~~~
yaacovtp
add in "justin" to that search and it gets a whole lot more fun.

