
Ask HN: What is your height, your keyboard/mouse surface height? And any pain? - talktime
Any back&#x2F;shoulder&#x2F;wrist&#x2F;rsi pain?<p>Height: 178cm (5&#x27;10)<p>Keyboard&#x2F;Mouse Surface Height: 75cm (29.5 inches)<p>Pains: My shoulders are rolled forward when I sit. Generally finding a lot of muscle tension in my shoulders and neck.<p>I&#x27;m thinking about sawing off 3.5 inches (7.5cm) off my desk legs. Wanted to gather some anecdata. I&#x27;m also looking at using a vertical mouse, trackpad, split keyboard, standing desk and lazy-boy with suspended monitor.
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brudgers
Caveat: I'm old and fat.

A few years ago, I had knee surgery and could not sit with my leg under the
desk so I moved my keyboard (Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000) to my lap. No
less convenient to switch between keyboard and mouse, it's hands off either
way.

A couple of years ago, I went to a laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad) as my primary
machine. I also use my laptops in my lap. With the pointing stick, the where
to put the mouse question simply went away.

Since I went to keyboards in my lap, I experience significantly less hand
fatigue, neck strain, etc. These days the laptop allows me to sit in any
comfortable chair with my feet up (my Office chair is an Ikea Poang and
ottoman).

A price is multiple monitors...partially a matter of me just not bothering to
set something up. I mitigate some of that with Xmonad as my window manager and
a relatively 'big' laptop.

I did the standing desk for about a year a few years ago. Configuring
everything was kinda' a pain in the ass. The best single change I ever made
was a $40 Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard. Microsoft has had a lot
of employees spending a lot of time at the keyboard. Under similar
circumstances IBM designed some great Thinkpad keyboards that lived on through
to the 3rd generation of Intel Core powered Lenovo versions. (I don't know
about the new chicklet style keyboards in the current generation).

Anyway, good luck.

~~~
talktime
I'm sitting here with my keyboard in my lap. I've recently noticed it is a lot
more comfortable too. I'm alternating with keyboard on lap to mouse on lap
depending on what I'm doing.

This hands at lap level seems crucial, I don't know how I've missed it for so
long. However a laptop doesn't strike me as ideal unless coupled with a
monitor at eye level as I'd be looking down constantly.

~~~
brudgers
I tend to lounge when I work (it's why I mentioned the chair) and the top of
the screen is about at eye level.

I guess I'm advocating lounging too...hmm, maybe I'm not the best person to
give advice.

Anyway, the trackpoint [1] on the keyboard makes a mouse unneccessary.
Trackpads are ok, but still require fingers to move off the home row.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick)

------
NumberCruncher
I highly recommend using a standing desk. Considering the long time negative
effects of sitting all the day at the desk has investing in a standing desk a
high ROI.

~~~
bryan11
Since I started using a standing desk, my neck and shoulders are significantly
less stressed.

------
cauterized
One size fits all desks are so non-ergonomic it's not funny. The trouble with
your question is that user height is a poor proxy for what desk height should
be because how much of your height is in your legs vs torso also affects it.

Anyway, here's another data point:

I'm 5'4". I keep my desk at 24" when sitting, 41" when standing. I use an
external keyboard plus a riser for my laptop to avoid having to look downwards
at it. The riser is adjustable but currently set at ~14", IIRC.

The next ergonomic adjustment I want to make is to swap out my crappy desk
chair for one with adjustable arms so I can sit closer to the desk and type
with my elbows at a right angle instead of arms outstretched.

I get shoulder tension these days, but am pretty sure that's just good old
fashioned stress. No keyboard/mouse related RSI since I switched to mousing
lefty 10 years ago. Though my back and neck are less happy after a full day of
meetings, which mean sitting with the laptop at a much taller conference table
with no riser.

I do get wrist and neck pain these days related to looking down at my phone
and contorting my fingers to hold it securely while attempting to use it one-
handed, because despite being the smallest on the market it's too large for my
small-person hands.

What I said about mousing lefty? I switched because of RSI that I'm pretty
sure was related to a much too tall desk. At almost 36", my options were to
sit with toes dangling above the ground, type with fingers at chin height, or
perch on the very edge of my chair all day with no lumbar support. All sorts
of bad things were happening to my body. Switching the mouse saved my wrists
for a few months. Leaving the job, getting a desk at a more sane height, a
keyboard tray (one without a 6 inch deep wrist rest), and a keyboard with
lighter resistance saved my career.

Ergonomics matter. Even a desk job can cause permanent physical injury. And
our phones aren't helping either.

Adjust your chair height before you adjust your desk height. When your feet
rest comfortably on the floor with your knees at a right angle while sitting
back and upright in your chair, hold your elbows at your side at a right
angle. Your desk height should be about an inch below the bottom surface of
your lower arm. Or if you use a keyboard tray, the surface of the tray should
be at that height.

Then raise your monitor until you're looking at it straight ahead, not up or
down. This applies whether you're sitting or standing. Most people these days
are bending their necks forward to see their laptops. Those trendy silver Mac
laptop risers are about a foot too short for most people. You probably need
12-24" of height added. Any external monitors may need raising too. And of
course, plan to use an external keyboard and mouse.

~~~
talktime
Thanks for the detailed reply.

If, at 5'10, I am experiencing problems related to desk height, I can only
imagine problems are worse for those shorter. I wonder if there is a
correlation between height and these kind of problems. Standard desk height
seems to be designed for someone who is 6'2.

I was considering adding a keyboard tray, but I'm thinking that I mostly use
my desk for a keyboard and mouse, I might as well optimize the desk for that
use rather than having an add-on for that purpose.

~~~
cauterized
Yeah. Keyboard trays also tend to feel cramped once you add a mouse.

I wonder whether the desk height issue has to do with changes in work? It may
be that when desk work mostly involved reading and writing papers (I sort of
picture someone leaning over their desk to be closer to the paper), a higher
surface was more ergonomic. And then nobody thought to change the default
because the transition to computer dominated work was so gradual and unrelated
to office furniture replacement cycles?

~~~
talktime
Probably something to do with the market supplying what the customer wants,
and the customer being uneducated. Like me . . . If I had seen a 26 inch high
desk when I was purchasing the thing, I probably would have passed on it . .
would have thought it too low at the time.

------
TurboHaskal
No amount of gadgets will fix your problem.

You need to start stretching and lifting, placing an emphasis in pulling
exercises.

~~~
nekopa
But he is not talking about gadgets.

If you are a lifter, you should know that proper position and stance are
crucial to making sure you don't injure yourself while lifting.

