
Ask HN: Is it too late to do a startup after 35? - gatsbysong
I&#x27;ve been in a corporate for many years after grad school. Climbing endless corporate ladder. I want to feel the excitement of a start-up. Should I quit my job and do my own gig full time? Or is this age already too old to compete with the 20s?
======
USNetizen
You are absolutely not too old. Actually, contrary to the Silicon Valley
stereotype, most startup founders are between their late 30's and early 40's -
where they have the perfect mix of remaining youthful drive and critical
industry experience (it is also, coincidentally, the age range where fluid
intelligence of youth and crystallized intelligence of wisdom intersect and
balance out). The fastest growing startups are actually far more likely to be
led by people over the age of 50 than under the age of 30.

Don't listen to the Silicon Valley echo chamber - the rest of the country
thrives on stable businesses, which are most likely to be led by older
founders. Not only can you compete with those 20-somethings, but you can out-
maneuver them using the experience you've earned in other environments.
Younger founders may have to put in 100 hours a week and make dozens of costly
mistakes that you, because of your corporate background, can potentially
foresee and avoid altogether.

Reference: [http://business.time.com/2013/03/14/ask-the-expert-the-
best-...](http://business.time.com/2013/03/14/ask-the-expert-the-best-age-for-
a-start-up-founder/)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
If you have a family, obligations, the amount of risk you can take on might be
more limited. It's ok taking equity in leui of a decent salary in your 20's
when single, but this is much harder when life goals change after having a
kid.

~~~
USNetizen
Well, that is another stereotype. When you're older and have held more high-
paying jobs, you also tend to have savings, assets, a better credit history
and other funds to cushion the blow. Plus, with a spouse, you have economies
of scale potentially so they can work while you lead a startup with little or
no pay.

I would guarantee if you took a survey, that the average founder actually
falls somewhere around 38-45 years old, with one to two kids, a mortgage and
everything else. Yet, the risk is substantially lower because they can
leverage up to 20 years of earned experience (and contacts) in an industry (or
multiple).

If you don't believe me, just ask the guys that started Intel, who were in
their 40's with families. They even did it in a time when technology startups
were virtually unheard of.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I was referring to working for a startup than founding one. I think you are
right about founding, that many founders will be older necessarily. And in
that case, you at least have controls of the risks and are chasing your
vision, not someone else's. But working for a startup at 40 seems problematic,
since you aren't really taking risks as an entrepreneur.

~~~
USNetizen
I don't believe the original post was about _working_ at a startup, it was
more regarding founding one. Hence my answers to that effect.

I don't see the difference though. Netscape was co-founded by a 20-something
Marc Andreessen, but run day-to-day by a couple 40-and-50-somethings in the
early days, not including the developers, many of which were well into their
30's.

Like I said, the 20-something startup kid - either worker or founder - is a
stereotype and not accurate. I can keep coming up with more examples if you
want. There are dozens of them for every one 20-something wunderkind example.

Heck, looking back now that I'm in my 30's, I marvel at the ignorance I had in
my 20's that could have easily led me to ruining a startup. Experience is
simply irreplaceable and more valuable than youth in business, regardless of
what you've been told.

Now that I'm a little older, I have a successful company which I could simply
not have achieved without millions of dollars in investment at a younger age.
That investment would have all gone to keeping me afloat while I made mistakes
due to the naivete of my 20's. Contrarily, working in industry for a little
while first, I learned from other successful companies and leveraged the good
things while jettisoning the bad things I saw.

------
cthulhuology
No age is too old. I co-founded a startup last year, successfully raised a 8
figure series A, and am the youngest of founders by more than a decade, and
I'm over 35.

The difference between now (startup #4 for me) and when I was in my 20s, is
now I waste a lot less time and energy on things that don't matter.

My advice is start consulting on something you know just slightly better than
the next guy. You can often jumpstart a product development plan by helping a
large company define a product they need. Then make that if more than one
company really needs it :)

------
fiatmoney
"Doing a startup" is a middling to bad idea (particularly if you mean "working
for below-market wages & illiquid impossible-to-value options at a hip VC
funded consumer web foosball emporium", as opposed to actually founding).

"Starting a company" on the other hand is an excellent idea, if you think
you've found a niche where you can make it work.

Your remarks about wanting to "feel the excitement" and "compete with the 20s"
though make me think you might want to contemplate what you're trying to get
out of it. If it's possibly-positive-value consumption (similar to the idea of
starting a clothing boutique or coffeeshop) that's a different decision
calculus than if it's an investment of time & some money that's intended to
pay off with a given return in a given timeframe.

Some people spend money climbing mountains; some people found guide companies
so they can spend more time climbing mountains; some people found sporting
goods stores because they've noticed the margins are pretty high and more
people seem to be climbing mountains lately. There's a key difference between
#2 & #3.

~~~
thisrod
And #2 never works: people who try that soon find that they're too worn out to
climb anything fun, they're stuck in the mountains, and they don't like being
there any more.

------
Mz
From:
[http://v25media.s3.amazonaws.com/edw519_mod.pdf](http://v25media.s3.amazonaws.com/edw519_mod.pdf)

    
    
      127. It’s Never Too Late
      Teen years - flipped burgers & partied
      Age 21 - graduated college, flipped burgers, & partied
      Age 24 - touched my first computer
      Age 25 - wrote my first program
      Age 27 - touched my first PC
      Age 31 - wrote my first low level code
      Age 32 - started my first business
      Age 39 - started my second business
      Age 41 - accessed the internet for the first time
      Age 44 - wrote my first browser-based app
      Age 51 - found Hacker News
      Now - having more fun than ever
    
      It’s never too late, you’re never too old, and it’s not whether the glass is half full or half empty.
    
      It’s about getting up off your butt and filling the glass the rest of the way.
    

If you spend any time around here, you might be passingly familiar with the
author (as he is currently #5 on the leader board):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=edw519](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=edw519)

------
excitom
As someone who has spent almost 40 years in high tech, and who has founded 3
companies after 30 (one after 40), I just don't buy the B.S. that you've over
the hill after your 20's. I think any V.C. that buys that hype is going to
miss out on enormous opportunities.

Part of the thinking is that once you marry and have a family, then 100 hour
work weeks are out. Well, setting aside the discussion of quantity v. quality
of work, now that my kids are out of school and out of the nest I'm free to
work the long hours again, but this time around I have a wealth of experience
and wisdom to bring to the table as well as the hours.

~~~
codingdave
VCs don't buy that hype. They just know that young founders are more likely to
be convinced that VCs are mentors and follow their guidance easier than guys
in their 40s. The VCs will own more of the company, and have more board seats,
and have more influence, all for less output of cash.

------
joeblau

      > In fact, research shows that the median age of U.S.-born tech company founders
      > is 39, and there are twice as many entrepreneurs older than 50 than there are 
      > younger that age 25.
    

[http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/242851](http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/242851)

------
stevenkovar
Don't quit your job. There's no reason to unless your real motivation is to
feel like you're being an entrepreneur. In which case, I urge you to
reconsider.

Create a project and work on it in your spare time. Get people using it early,
and learn as much from them as possible. When an aspect of your project takes
more time than you have spare, find someone to help with that task. Ideally,
charge money; and once you have 10-20 customers, double your price and get
10-20 more. Keep doubling your price until a healthy amount of customers start
citing price as the deciding factor—you've found a value for your product that
serves both you and your customers.

At some point, you'll be making enough to live and save at least
$1,000/mo—that's when you quit and focus on your project full-time; if you
want to go the funding route, you have that freedom still.

------
GnarfGnarf
No. I founded a software company when I was 46, and it's still going strong
twenty years later. The most fun I've ever had.

------
api
No, nor at 45, 55, or 65.

The biggest advantages early-twenty-somethings have over later age groups is a
higher risk tolerance and a lack of obligations getting in the way of putting
in unlimited time at the office.

The latter is a little dubious, since the data shows that productivity tends
to fall after about 40 hours of work a week and to drop off a cliff after 50.
Sometimes you gotta crunch, but if you're crunching all the time something is
wrong. I consider that a sign of poor planning or "work hygiene."

The former does matter, but it can be overcome by compensating with better
planning and by leveraging superior experience. You can compensate for lower
risk tolerance by working to _de-risk_ the venture as early as possible as
much as you can.

------
solve
YC interviewers say yes. Some have directly told me that they use this
equation when judging applications:

impressiveness = achievements / age

Now that YC has tried to tackle the race and gender concerns, I really hope
that ageism is next. They can start by switching the age application question
to just an "over 18?" checkbox.

~~~
vidarh
As someone who is 39, why is "impressiveness = achievements / age" a problem
in your eyes?

Looking back at my own life, pretty much all my worthwhile achievements has
come after 20, and according to that formula I'd come out very favourable
against 20-25 years olds like myself.

That formula is pretty much just saying that they expect people to have more
achievements the older they are, which does not seem unreasonable to me.

~~~
solve
No one has ever said "that's incredible for a 40 year old".

Only the young get benefit from this equation. I would bet that your
achievements would not be considered great by someone who uses this equation,
no matter how great they are.

The somewhat misquoted phrase that's attributed to the Alibaba CEO describes
the spirit of people who use this type of thinking better than my equation
will:

"If you're not rich at 35, you deserve it!"

~~~
vidarh
No one says "that's incredible for a 40 year old" because a 40 year old is
expected to have had time enough that we don't need the qualifier of age.

In part because the world is full of examples of 40 year olds being
successful, but despite the Silicon Valley bias, impressive 20-year olds or
25-year olds (or even 30-year olds) with big achievements are extreme
outliers.

Even in the startup world.

------
Disruptive_Dave
SHIT NO!!! I'm 35, live in NYC, and one year into my first real startup that I
co-founded. A few insights from my experience, as well as some challenges and
advantages: 1) Everyone is younger than me and it's mostly humorous and
enjoyable (I play much younger than typical 35yo's, tho). 2) I spent 10 years
running a partnership marketing agency and I was lucky that I could easily
translate my skills/experience/contacts to the startup world (mostly in biz
dev). 3) There is a strong need for people with real-world business, people
management, and corporate relations experience in startupland. You can
probably run a conference call much better than these damn whippersnapper
programmers. 4) The only real disadvantage associated with being 35yo in
startups is risk mitigation. If you have kids and a mortgage, it's gonna be
much harder to move fast and jump on opportunities. I am mostly unencumbered
and that's crucial right now (actually moving for 3 months soon, as we got
into an accelerator). 5) I'll never forget when a startup colleague (23yo
developer) expressed bewilderment when I called him (on the telephone!) to
talk about some business matter. He promptly explained that his generation
usually does this stuff over gchat. I laughed. He laughed. 6) I've been
thinking about this a lot lately; we only have one short life to live on this
earth and it friggin flies by, so why not reinvent yourself a few times,
professionally and personally? Assuming you're smart enough not to risk
your/your family's future well being, go for it.

~~~
Disruptive_Dave
I should add: 7) Coming from the corporate/agency world, you'll be floored by
the lack of basic business sense and planning found in the average early stage
startup. Perhaps I was naive, but the severity of that mindset ("let's just
make something flashy and get a ton of users and everything else will figure
itself out!") surprised me at first.

------
david_shaw
I'm not a founder, but I don't believe it's (ever) too late, as long as you
have the passion and drive to get it done.

My suggestion would be to stop thinking about "startup founders" as
20-something college-dropouts that we so easily envision, and instead remember
that most of the world's successful companies (not startups) are run by older,
more experienced CEOs. You might not pull as many ridiculous redbull-fueled
all-nighters (or maybe you will), but you've also seen a lot more in the world
-- especially in business.

You ask if you're "too old to compete with the 20s" \-- I have little doubt
that they wonder if they're too young to compete with more experienced
businesspeople.

If you want to build a startup, do it.

------
thalesmello
Nope. The founder of [http://magnetis.com.br](http://magnetis.com.br) spent
most of his life working in a bank and in a fund. Money wasn't a problem, but
he was unhappy. He's got a management background, and never programmed until
his late thirties. He then learned Ruby, found a few partners and created this
app to track the performance of investment funds. During my internship in the
company, he took part as CEO and developer. So, if you have enough dedication,
you can completely change your life regardless of age.

------
mainetti
As some already mentioned, it's never too late. I'll add a little bit from my
experience, of having started a technology company in my 20s and then, later,
starting two others after my 40s, all of them active until now. The two most
important things I felt different were: time and energy. I explain. The time I
had to work for my startup when in my 20s was huge, almost any time I wanted,
and everyday. And that's what I did. I worked everyday, all the time. When you
love the company you founded, that's what you want to do. But now, after my
40s, life changed. Married, children, and a lot of obligations and
responsabilities. I definitely don't have the time I had in my 20s to dedicate
to the startup. And yes, you need to dedicate time! Regarding the energy, I
mean the energy related to health, physical capacity, intellectual
concentration and ability to handle stress. These are all different 20 years
down the road. And I amazed now, to see and feel the amount of energy one
needs to dedicate to the startup. I had forgotten this. I'm not commenting all
other aspects related to loving what you want to do, entrepreneurship capacity
and persistence because I'm taking these as given. So, in short, if you have
the _time_ and the _energy_, go ahead do your startup. Otherwise, go do
something else.

------
JamesDLevine
Over at 500 Startups we see a substantial number of founders and founding
members who are in their 30s and 40s, and even some in their 50s and beyond.

This topic resurfaces every so often. Google will produce various articles and
studies on the topic. Here's a study from HBR using Crunchbase API, LinkedIn,
WSJ-

[https://hbr.org/2014/04/how-old-are-silicon-valleys-top-
foun...](https://hbr.org/2014/04/how-old-are-silicon-valleys-top-founders-
heres-the-data/)

~~~
gatsbysong
interesting statistics.

------
kabdib
About 15 years ago I met a 65 year old (a founder of Adobe) who was
considering "taking another run at the fence."

The term "taking another run at the fence" refers to flocks of turkeys, who
are often crushed against short fences when the flock panics. They are stupid
birds and don't know that they are able to fly above the fence.

For me, the considerations are:

\- Time away from family

\- Likelihood that the compensation will ultimately be crap

I can compensate for the long hours by taking care of myself, and by working
smart.

------
gmays
Certainly not. In fact during the Female Founders Conference today Jessica
mentioned that there's someone in the current batch who's in their late 60's.

Assuming you don't squander your early years starting older has some
advantages. When you're older you've likely built some domain expertise, have
a better idea of what you want from life, and can support yourself better.

For example, I started in my late 20's. By that time I'd saved a lot of money,
built steady passive income, was married (wife's career keeps her busy), and
didn't have any kids. Since most other areas of my life were taken care
(especially financial) of I could pour myself into my startup without worrying
about raising money or runway.

That said, remember that wanting to feel "the excitement of a start-up" is the
wrong reason to join or start one. Before quitting your job I'd highly
recommend just starting a side project and do it for at least 6 months before
making any major decisions. It's very unglamorous and odds are you won't even
launch a product, which is fine. Better to learn that now than after you quit
your job because 35 isn't too old to start a startup but it is too old to be
unemployed.

------
BatFastard
If you have the vision and the guts to make it happen you can do it at any
age. BUT, think about your life situation, how adverse to risk are you? Can
you put in long hours if needed with out FAMILY suffering? Mid life is a often
a lot about family. I am getting close to sending my last child off to
college. When I get there I am open for anything. But I know many of my kids
friends better then their mother or father does. They talk to me about their
problems, don't miss out on your children(s) life... No amount of money can
make up for it.

------
peggyli
Definitely check out the answers to the Quora question "What do people in
Silicon Valley plan to do once they are over 35?"

[https://www.quora.com/What-do-people-in-Silicon-Valley-
plan-...](https://www.quora.com/What-do-people-in-Silicon-Valley-plan-to-do-
once-they-are-over-35)

Lots of great examples of entrepreneurs who founded successful companies after
turning 35, and includes answers from Craig Newmark (Craigslist), Reed
Hastings (Netflix), Jimmy Wales (Wikipedia, Wikia), and more.

------
wooyi
The biggest challenge I find with ex-corporate mid 30s folks is their
inability to reduce their personal burn and lifestyle in order to survive the
startup process to succeed. The question you're asking is the wrong one. It's
not how old you are. The question is, can you do without your pay, sustain
your family (if you have one) and the mental stress around that, for 18-24
months before your startup becomes profitable (or you raise money).

Usually from mid 30s people, the answer is hell, no.

~~~
USNetizen
Actually, the answer is most commonly yes, and more so than someone in their
20's that is burdened with student debt and no experience or industry
contacts. Mid-30's people have savings, assets, credit history and other
funds. Plus, they potentially have a spouse to cover expenses while the
startup grows. That is the best kind of investment in terms of supporting a
new business.

The stats don't lie - the average founder is late 30's to early 40's. The
20-something wunderkind is a Silicon Valley thing, not reality for the rest of
the country's businesses.

~~~
wooyi
My answer was based on anecdotal evidence. Yes, having a supportive a spouse
is key and a win for a mid 30s professional. I started my first business in my
mid 30s so my peers are in this group.

From that perspective, the average founder is definitely not late 30s to early
40s. Maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd... :-)

------
brandonlipman
No way. If anything you may be at an a significant advantage. Theirs an
awesome book by Noam Wasserman "Founders Dilemmas" which puts data behind all
factors of founderhood. Your experience could give you a great base of
knowledge to work from.

I have been told by some that corporate experience allows you to develop good
working relationships that can be used when finding co-founders as well as
getting customers.

------
chuhnk
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Koum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Koum)

Jan Koum started WhatsApp when he was 33. Now I'm not saying you are the next
Jan Koum but I do believe it's never too late to work on something you're
passionate about.

Sometimes joining an early stage startup can let you be part of that
exhilarating experience so that's one idea.

~~~
gatsbysong
Thanks!

------
lscore720
Of course you're not too old! I highly recommend taking a vacation or simply
stepping outside of your bubble first - this'll be a big part of determining
product/market fit if you're trying to make something viable for the masses.
At your age, it's important to have the wisdom & experience to separate fact
from fiction in start-up success stories.

------
eli
I don't even get the question. Why would a 20 year old be inherently better at
running a business than a 40 year old?

------
fsk
If you already have a stable job, find something you can do on the side for
5-10 hours a week. Wait until it seems like it's doing well to quit your
regular job.

Also, it's better to bootstrap with savings than raise VC at the beginning.

------
noso
you should read following:

The Ray Kroc Story

“If I had a brick for every time I’ve repeated the phrase Quality, Service,
Cleanliness and Value, I think I’d probably be able to bridge the Atlantic
Ocean with them.” —Ray Kroc

How do you create a restaurant business and become an overnight success at the
age of 52? As Ray Kroc said, “I was an overnight success alright, but 30 years
is a long, long night.”

[http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/our_story/our_history/the_ray...](http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/our_story/our_history/the_ray_kroc_story.html)

You are never too old to dream! Jut work hard and you will get to where you
want to be.

------
marcusestes
I bet you already know if you _feel_ able to compete with people in their 20s.
If the question is, will other people, for instance, investors, think that
you're too old?

Two words: fuck 'em.

Signed, a 35-year old CEO.

~~~
USNetizen
Age of founder(s) may exclude some startups from funding in California, but
elsewhere the older a founder the more competent they are usually rated. Even
then, more traditional funding sources, like banks, are more likely to lend or
invest in older founders because of their experience and potential assets.

------
vowelless
I'm 25 and I'm aiming to start my first startup when I'm 35!

In the mean time, I want to have some financial security, sort out immigration
to the US, etc.

------
rabbyte
Don't be distracted by the noise of the world. Focus on what matters to you
and be fearless.

------
benologist
In what way would you be competing with these 20 year olds?

------
MrBassam
It is better than 36

------
drawkbox
Not at all, developers usually don't really have the scope to put out great
products before then < 10 years in. Some do but it is because of support
networks and coding since a really early age. As an example Zuckerberg had
funding and support his entire life so he was decades ahead at 20.

It takes a good 10 years of coding before you can make products from design to
development to maintenance and live mode, and some good working time to
understand problems that need solving.

You are actually in the prime age for entrepreneurship. Go get it.

Paul Graham and Robert Morris started Viaweb when they were 31/30 years old
and sold it after a couple of years.

VCs do want younger because it is better terms/leverage
([http://business.time.com/2013/03/14/ask-the-expert-the-
best-...](http://business.time.com/2013/03/14/ask-the-expert-the-best-age-for-
a-start-up-founder/)) but if you have a good company/product that is
investable you will get investment, or if you make a product people want,
people will want it if you get it in front of them. I think the bias toward
funding only young is also probably harming products differentiation.

However you can understand why VCs go younger, mainly because success of those
kids is like an emerging underground band that might sell out stadiums one
day. They want in earlier than other VCs or before anything of value has been
created so it is under their umbrella. VCs are hipsters in that they are
trying to find value before others see it.

VCs main goal is to pan for Zuckerbergs like gold upstream from the blue ocean
well before the red ocean, because in 5-10 years time they might be their 1 in
10 successes needed. It is a risk they are willing to take to get potential
big companies very early.

But you can build a company that makes you a success where you can create your
own freedom at any age, you might do it so well you don't need investment, or
it may make your company more robust and market tested because you have to
bootstrap instead of seeking investment.

Great people with great products find a way.

Some links on ages of entrepreneurs:

[http://www.quora.com/What-successful-Internet-
entrepreneurs-...](http://www.quora.com/What-successful-Internet-
entrepreneurs-are-late-bloomers-succeeded-in-their-mid-30s-or-later)

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/krisztinaholly/2014/01/15/why-
gr...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/krisztinaholly/2014/01/15/why-great-
entrepreneurs-are-older-than-you-think/)

[http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/28/peak-age-
entrepreneurship/](http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/28/peak-age-
entrepreneurship/)

[https://hbr.org/2014/04/how-old-are-silicon-valleys-top-
foun...](https://hbr.org/2014/04/how-old-are-silicon-valleys-top-founders-
heres-the-data/)

[http://venturebeat.com/2014/10/31/why-middle-aged-
entreprene...](http://venturebeat.com/2014/10/31/why-middle-aged-
entrepreneurs-will-be-critical-to-the-next-trillion-dollar-business/)

[https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/older-
entrepreneurs-...](https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/older-entrepreneurs
--the-startup-mentality-is-not-bound-by-age-000959494.html)

------
sebringj
only if you believe it is.

