
Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple - asaph
https://www.asaph.org/2018/09/jguitar-apple-ios-shortcut.html
======
dcow
> I'm genuinely thrilled that someone at Apple deemed my chord calculator
> technology worthy of inclusion in the iOS shortcuts gallery. If anyone from
> Apple is reading this, please reach out using JGuitar.com's contact form. We
> can work together to make this experience even better. I can provide high
> quality SVG images of all chord diagrams, support alternate tunings,
> instruments and more.

Is everyone missing the fact that the author seems quite happy about the
exposure and reaches out to Apple at the bottom of the post offering
collaboration? I'm sure they can handle themselves. It feels borderline
patronizing to read all the comments about involving lawyers because Apple is
being _so_ abusive. When you publish something on the internet, people can
link to it. That's how the internet works.

~~~
slivym
The reason everyone is reacting the way they are is because this news really
isn't about this particular website. It's about the fact that the largest
corporation on earth has decided it can freeboot everyone else's content. It's
part of a trend too. Google a topic and on the right hand side of the page
you'll see the first paragraph from Wikipedia. How exactly do you expect
wikipedia to survive if no one ever has to actually go there to get the
information it publishes? Not only is it an unethical way of presenting
content - providing information without referencing the source, but it's
actively damaging the source of the information by intercepting users who
would otherwise use the service.

The fact that "Oh well, it was fine this time" isn't a valid justification for
why they decided to do it in the first place.

~~~
cyborgx7
The web was literally built do be usable this way. I know people have started
to believe that the only allowable way to view "content" is in the way the
website builders decided, but your browser is allowed to display the content
it downloaded in any way it wants to you.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
You're right and I'm totally on board with that. But that doesn't seem to be
how Apple works, if they freely share everything they put on line then, for
sure, have at it.

If they expect people to pay to access their IPR then they should, without
prompting, pay others when they want access to their's.

~~~
cyborgx7
You're right, the big companies are the biggest offenders against this
intended use of the web. And that's bad.

And they aren't accessing others intellectual property with this. They are
building custom tools to display other's intellectual property. Very
different.

~~~
threeseed
So Google, Microsoft and Apple who fund and build the web browser you are
currently using are against the intended use of the web.

I wish more companies would "offend" then.

~~~
gcb0
browser have very explicit rules against this very action by apple.

in your browser, apple.com cannot access the content from jguitar.com

~~~
boodrizz
That is not true in several ways. Iframes and cdns work. There are security
measures that prevent https connections from embedding http and other content
restrictions, but those are for security reasons. People hotlink images, it's
a wild web out there

~~~
gcb0
For everything you described there is a tag or http header i can set on my own
content to prevent a browser on another domain from 'hotlinking'. If you are
the 'browser' as this IOS feature is, there is none. I hope it at least
respect the robots.txt rules.

------
asaph
Author here. Thanks everyone for your thoughtful feedback. I intentionally
wanted to strike a cooperative tone in putting this story out there. When the
largest company in the world features your side hustle in their brand new
product, it's an opportunity, not a reason to "lawyer up". You can catch more
flies with honey than with vinegar. Would I have preferred attribution and a
heads up? Sure. But I'm frankly more interested in how I can help improve the
user experience and further incorporate my software into Apple products. If
anyone from Apple is reading this, let's talk. You can reach me here:

[https://jguitar.com/contactus.jsp?subject=Guitar+Chord+Finde...](https://jguitar.com/contactus.jsp?subject=Guitar+Chord+Finder+Shortcut)

And those concerned about JGuitar.com's scaling or bandwidth costs need not
worry. JGuitar.com serves several million pageviews/year, and is well
optimized to handle the traffic coming from these shortcuts.

~~~
folkhack
I sincerely urge you to follow-up with this story. I would love to see what
Apple does in good faith on this one - it would have a real impact on how I
perceive them as a company.

------
nathancahill
There's a lot of misunderstanding here. As someone that has been in a similar
situation:

1\. It's not Apple, it was Workflows that wrote the tool.

2\. It's not an integration, it's an example of how to use Shortcuts.

3\. The biggest pain point won't be bandwidth (OP seems to know what they're
doing with caching) but fielding user requests/complaints/spam without the
upside of the web traffic. iOS 12 has only been up for a few days and he's
already getting a ukulele request. Tip of the iceberg.

> We can work together to make this experience even better.

This isn't "working together". This is someone at Workflows finding a neat,
unauthenticated API endpoint and using it in a demo. I doubt Apple knows about
it.

~~~
alfredmuffin
wrong

~~~
softawre
Well argued.

(which point is wrong?)

------
planb
Apple did not create this. It originates in the "Workflow Gallery", which
Apple rebranded when taking over the service.

I think the question is: Are these downloadable workflows an integral part of
the Apple software or are they just merely "Sample Code"? In this case the
gallery is curated only by Apple (I think), but if we go down this path, what
prevents DCMA takedown requests for GitHub repos that contain sample code
which accesses services like this?

~~~
justtopost
If apple cannot make the products they aquire conform to their own ecosystem,
how can they expect users to?

------
fredley
It's cool that Apple's using your stuff, it's not cool they're not giving you
attribution.

I'd add a JGuitar url and copyright notice to all your images, so that this is
displayed in Apple's results, and also call a lawyer.

~~~
geoah
I really don't get why people suggest lawyers and c&d letters as step 1.

Yes apple could have done this better and they should -- but why not just have
a chat with apple before you go nuclear?

~~~
aequitas
I think a lot of people feel that if it was the other way around (people using
Apple copyrighted material) they would get a lawyer on their ass in no time.

However it is debatable since Apple is 'only' providing a template/example
which the user must actively turn into a 'shortcut' to have this
functionality. Or at least that's how I understand this feature works.

Then again, I think Apple surely could do a better job in attribution toward
the sources. Maybe a standard for website owners to provide meta info with a
fallback to the website URL.

~~~
robertlagrant
> However it is debatable since Apple is 'only' providing a template/example
> which the user must actively turn into a 'shortcut' to have this
> functionality. Or at least that's how I understand this feature works.

According to the linked site, this is a premade shortcut that Apple supplied,
not something the user needs to create. Just click install and it works, was
how I read it.

------
sudhirj
Given that this is a gallery of possible shortcut ideas, what’s the big fuss
about? How is different from suddenly making the front page of HN/Reddit or
Google?

The suggestion to hotlink directly to an image is slightly problematic, but a
copyright watermark makes sense whether it was Apple doing this or not.

The shortcuts app lets you connect to any site on the internet - if a rock
star made this Shortcut and chose to tweet it the result would be exactly the
same - why would it matter who made the sample and whether it was bundled or
not? Apple isn’t claiming ownership, nor have they asked the owner not to add
a notice.

------
0x0
Maybe he could detect the "Shortcuts/" User-Agent HTTP header, and add a
watermark to the generated images ("powered by JGuitar.com"?

------
tlrobinson
Apple is lucky they didn’t do this to Jamie Zawinski

(Every link to [https://www.jwz.org/blog/](https://www.jwz.org/blog/) from HN
shows a NSFWish image, based on referer header)

------
badprose
> Firstly, I would have used an https url instead of http and secondly, I
> would have made it look for images with a width & height greater than 200px
> rather than equal to 200px.

I didn't know Shortcuts were powerful enough to pull images of specific sizes
from webpages. That's really useful.

Creating a Shortcut to scrape these guitar tabs doesn't seem that different
from writing a Bash script that does the same thing.

The main issue is that most users would grab the Shortcut from the gallery,
find the guitar tabs they need, and never know where it came from.

Maybe Apple could automatically provide attribution in their Gallery? Like
"This shortcut is powered by Google.com and JGuitar.com".

------
aaaaaaaaaab
The Shortcuts devs seems to have taken the "act now, apologize later"
approach.

Another funny solution is how they implemented the "Add to Home screen"
functionality: when you select "Add to Home screen" in the Shortcuts app, it
opens a data:// URL in Safari, and you have to add it from there :D

~~~
saagarjha
> Another funny solution is how they implemented the "Add to Home screen"
> functionality: when you select "Add to Home screen" in the Shortcuts app, it
> opens a data:// URL in Safari, and you have to add it from there :D

Because, presumably, they do not have access to the private API to bypass this
step yet–for third party apps the only way to add things to the homescreen is
through Safari.

~~~
aaaaaaaaaab
But Shortcuts is a first-party app. The developer is listed as "Apple" in the
AppStore.

It _used to be_ a third-party app called Workflow, but Apple acquired them
early 2017. They had plenty of time to replace the Safari workaround with the
proper private API.

------
DoctorPenguin
Just a few years ago this would have sparked an outcry about apple / google /
microsoft using his website / assets / whatever without asking for consent.

But today it's cool when some billion dollar company uses someone elses
creations without paying because you should be happy they didn't shut your
service down with some vague patent bullshit.

------
skc
Only Apple can have someone effusively thanking them for what effectively
amounts to abuse.

Unbelievable.

~~~
EugeneOZ
For the real artist, most important thing is to know that people use your work
and they like it or it's useful for them.

~~~
Sgt_Apone
That's an absurd statement. There are plenty of "real artists" that want to
make a living with their work. You can't pay your bills with exposure.

~~~
inerte
Not OP, but I saw the sarcasm miles away.

~~~
EugeneOZ
No sarcasm intended.

~~~
inerte
Then I apologize. Also missed the nuance as Sgt_Apone

------
clon
I would just sniff the UserAgent and replace the images with a miniature
version of the graphic and a big "Visit JGuitar.com for the proper
experience".

------
heinrichhartman
This is the first time I understand the point of the new EU copyright
legislation or the "Leistungsschutzrecht" in Germany.

\- It's NOT OK to integrate s/o else's content into a website. \- It's OK to
link to it.

As a content creator, how are you going to profit from such an integration?

EITHER license the content for integration OR only link to the original
sources.

Not saying that the laws were good or that I understand them well, but AFAIK
they are aiming in this direction.

------
hyperman1
Isn't this exactly the kind of situation that the European Copyright article
11 'Link tax' tries to remedy? A big company takes content from a small one
without attribution, remuneration or anything?

------
heinrichhartman
Imagine if s/o "integrated" Apple Maps into their site and showed maps
rendered by Apple on their app without any form attribution.

I highly doubt that Apple would be thrilled.

------
amelius
Isn't this what Google has been doing all along, creating "mini" integrations
with all of our websites? I don't see the big difference.

~~~
bergie
They at least provide attribution.

------
ricardobeat
This is what the web was built for. Good job everyone!

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Yes, so "good job" to Apple because they're freely sharing all their IPR
online too?

~~~
ricardobeat
In the same way every company today wouldn't be able to run without MIT-
licensed software, with absolutely zero guarantee of giving anything back, the
spirit is that you don't care what others do or not do, all you care about is
that content is open by default.

And speaking of that, you can definitely use the same workflow automation to
extract anything from Apple's own websites.

------
lawnchair_larry
I don’t think this is an Apple app. The app info says the publisher is
DeskConnect, Inc. The subheading says Apple, but when clicked to see all apps
by “Apple”, it only shows this one. Looks shady.

~~~
belltyler
It is a legit Apple app, released alongside iOS 12. Apple bought the app
called Workflow which they've made their own, rebranding it to Shortcuts.

------
omneity
(slightly OT)

It is not clear if the author is earning something out of the situation (more
traffic I suppose?).

However, it seems to me if Shortcuts really takes off among the average iOS
user, there could be a massive business building cloud services exposed via
these low-code programming environments.

Killer App for FaaS?

At the same time Microsoft's TouchDevelop tried in the past to bootstrap the
lack of apps on Windows Phone, but didn't succeed and had virtually no impact.

I am curious if (and hopeful) Apple will be different here.

------
ctvo
What's stopping the website owner from returning any image he wants in this
case. Advertising, political messages, pornography?

Doing things like this without the consent of the website owner feels very
dangerous. It looks bad on Apple they haven't thought this through and are a
disgruntle owner away from a major incident.

------
z3t4
Somewhat relevant: Whatever Happened to the Semantic Web?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18023408](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18023408)

------
Ws32ok
This sets a bad precedent. I’m not convinced this is good for anyone
regardless of how innocuous it seems.

Apple wouldn’t tolerate this if it was done to them. It would be like Disney
complaining about copyright infringement while infringing someone else’s
copyright...

------
batteryhorse
If I were you I'd send them a cease and desist letter

~~~
geoah
Why? Just out of pure hate or dislike for apple? A request to show a link to
the website under the image would be better imo.

He could always play dirty and just print the website on the bottom of the
image but I don't see how this or the c&d will help his site.

~~~
clintonc
This is as though Apple were hotlinking his images -- they are being
consistently used in a setting besides that which was originally intended,
without permission (or even attribution).

------
piyush_soni
Now only if Google had done it, the feel of the article might have been a
little different ...

------
jacobush
I am baffled that Apple would dare do such a thing, not only from an
attribution stand point only, but also for offering a service to their
customers, they can't rely on being there, or its quality, or anything really.

It's really, really weird.

~~~
aaaaaaaaaab
As others have pointed out
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18038182](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18038182))
the Shortcuts app is a slightly rebranded version of the Workflow app that was
acquihired by Apple early 2017. Looks like they launched Shortcuts without
vetting their content.

~~~
pelario
In which sense does this fact make it better ? Not only weird, but to me this
feels a careless attitude...

~~~
bryanrasmussen
It turns out that corporations are not people, but are instead made up of
people, and some of those people - especially when working together with lots
of other people on projects - are prone to making stupid mistakes that make
the corporation itself look stupid even though knowledge of what was being
done might not have been purposefully present anywhere among the people
responsible for the error.

I mean I've worked on projects where somebody got in some content and I said -
hey you should probably vet that content and they said oh, oh I think it's
okay because of X, and I said well are you sure because, well ok I'll check I
asked and they said they think X is fine. Ok well whatever, I'm sure not going
to fight over this thing for the next two weeks just to end up looking like a
jerk at the end.

------
briandear
So just a few days ago a good number of HNers were lamenting copyrights. One
commenter even going so far as to say that he never respects copyright. Other
suggesting that copyright owners should lose copyright when they’ve made
enough money. Just ridiculous nonsense.

And today, because the “bad guy” was Apple, suddenly everyone cares about
copyright.

A forum where people have no problem discussing torrents which are used
frequently to violate copyrights — and now they are outraged about Apple using
chord finder in a gallery example for Shortcuts? And the owner of the content
is actually happy about it!

Hypocrites.

~~~
0xcde4c3db
Most actual complaints I see here are about moral rights. These are adjacent
to copyright, but represent a distinct set of concerns related to the author's
reputation rather than exploitation of the work _per se_.

------
GrumpyNl
I dont get it, he should be extremely happy by what they did. Free
advertising, free traffic, its like getting a nr 1 result Google. All i read
here is, get a lawyer. He should be celebrating.

~~~
rrobukef
The only reference to his site is hidden behind 3 screens in a URL. All ads
are stripped, his brand is stripped. I don't think he must celebrate (though
he seems happy).

~~~
dwighttk
>All ads are stripped...

What ads?

~~~
dwighttk
(looks like ads have been added... never mind)

~~~
asaph
They've been there for years. You just turned off your ad blocker :)

~~~
dwighttk
weird... when I reloaded without content blockers on my phone there weren't
any ads, but checking on my big computer I saw them.

I guess that's what I get for assuming.

~~~
asaph
The mobile site has fewer ads than the desktop site. Ads only appear in the
footer on mobile.

