
Ask HN: I just dropped out of college, should I do a coding bootcamp? - cantremember
I recently dropped out of college (I was a CS major). Without getting into too much detail, I know that leaving college is the right decision for me personally and I&#x27;m ready to move on to new things.<p>I want to work for a startup and eventually start my own (or start my own as soon as possible), because the corporate life doesn&#x27;t appeal to me. The problem is that my CS program was woefully inadequate--the standard Java&#x2F;C++ stuff with little exposure to many of the real world tools and practices (we never even learned how to use version control!).<p>I&#x27;ve been teaching myself Python and Django for the last few weeks, but I&#x27;m seriously considering one of the coding bootcamps like Hack Reactor&#x2F;Dev Bootcamp&#x2F;App Academy. I think they could really give me a good jump in the direction I want to go. The only downside is that attending one would basically eat up all the money I&#x27;ve saved up. Does anyone have any advice? Are these bootcamps worth it? I feel like at this point I&#x27;m not at the stage where I&#x27;m hirable to a startup or have the technical skills to start my own, and I&#x27;m hoping the bootcamps can get me to that baseline.
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avenger123
In terms of paying for these bootcamps, I don't think you are the target
market. You have CS exposure and you are already getting fluent with Python
and Django. The target market for these bootcamps is people with little
development experience. You are better off going through the many online
resources. Your best bet is to target companies that do Python and/or Django
development. I would focus on getting even better with these technologies.

I would also recommend that you finish your program. When we don't have a
concrete plan for something else, the path we are on currently is usually
still the best. In your case, it doesn't look like you have a startup that you
are building and has investors, traction, etc. So, you didn't leave because
there was much greater return on value on your time doing something else.

Now, I'm sure the material in the program is lower on the scale of reasons you
are leaving and you have other reasons that are valid for you. But, it would
be worth re-evaluating. It's hard sometimes to finish these things but it
shows that you have determination and persistence. You can continue to do your
side learning and improving your skills while still in school. Having a degree
is still relevant. I know that here it sometimes seems like everybody gets
work regardless of their education but that's not the norm.

------
bprager
Tools and language change quickly. Engineering basics and methodologies
remain. You might not like my advice, but reconsider your decision and show
that you have the discipline and endurance to finish things, even or
especially if they don't appeal to you all the way.

~~~
cantremember
I hear what you're saying, but I feel the issue is that I'm not really
learning the engineering basics or methodologies in my CS program. Basically,
the program is geared to churn out mediocre Java developers, and it does a
pretty good job of that.

It's incredibly frustrating to work on abstract coding projects only to have
them reviewed by the TA and then thrown away. I'd much prefer to be working on
real world stuff with impact, where I could learn by doing. And when I
consider the amount of time in classes, it just seems incredibly inefficient
compared to what I could be doing on my own or with the help of a bootcamp.

~~~
sillysaurus2
You misunderstand the world. The world largely doesn't care about skill or
talent. It cares about credentials.

You've also thrown away your chance at meeting cofounders, because now your
social circles are going to consist of workers who are largely not willing to
give up their salaried jobs to take a chance, or they're in so much debt that
they won't be able to even if they want to.

If you wanted to apply to YC with a cofounder, then they'll understand "we met
in college." They won't understand "we worked together for 3 months at a
random job." Relationships forged in college are much stronger than
relationships found at work, so it's inherently risky to bet that you and your
coworker won't get into a founder squabble and tank the company unless you've
known eachother for years.

Good luck to you.

~~~
Cardeck1
Well yes, YC likes the "we met in college" and I see your point but it doesn't
mean it's flawless. Stronger relationships? Yes, the only way? No. There is
always a risk when it comes to startups. Just accepting that scenario only is
stupid and misses a lot of potential out there.

If you believe that only a certain pattern can truly change the world you are
mistaken. In fact, that is the crucial mistake every incubator is doing. True
innovation almost always comes from unexpected places.

------
heliodor
The only time I think people should drop out of college is if they're building
a company that's becoming crazy successful and making a boatload of money to
the point that running that business makes more sense then college.

~~~
Cardeck1
And you believe the billionaires who dropped out of college were 100% they
would become rich in the future?

When it comes to startups there are no guarantees. Risk is high almost always,
with some exceptions.

~~~
brianchu
One data point: Mark Zuckerberg did not drop out of Harvard when he left to do
Facebook. He took a leave of absence and _he did not permanently drop out
until November 2005, by which time Facebook was well on its way to success_ ,
with a 100MM valuation and a position as the 10th most trafficked website.

So at least for him, he was probably pretty sure of his success (a cushy
acquisition as the very least).

[http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2005/11/1/zuckerberg-to-
le...](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2005/11/1/zuckerberg-to-leave-
harvard-indefinitely-mark/)

------
rpedela
"my CS program was woefully inadequate--the standard Java/C++ stuff"

That is the foundation for everything else. You will write much better Python
if you are competent with C/C++. The truth is that the major languages are
very similar. Yes one manages memory, one does not. One supports the ++
operator, one does not. And so on, but at a fundamental level they are
essentially the same. The reason why C/C++ and Java are taught is because
these languages are good for teaching the fundamentals: how memory works, data
structures, functional vs object-oriented, etc.

Like others have recommended, an internship is a great way to get real-world
experience. This is exactly what I did, and it helped me immensely. In
particular, I worked for Delphi-Delco Electronics who make electronic
automotive parts. My job was to automate testing of the automobile's main
computer. Due to safety and regulations, testing was very rigorous so I had to
learn how to be rigorous. That skill has helped me immensely throughout my
career.

BUT that internship was no replacement for my degree. Without the degree I
would be good at testing, but it would be quite hard for me to build an
efficient web server because I wouldn't really understand how the CPU, RAM,
etc work. While it is possible to learn all the fundamentals on your own, it
requires immense discipline which most of us (myself included) do not possess.

That is my two cents. I wish you the best whatever you decide!

------
manglav
Why don't you try getting an internship? Don't mention to companies that
you've dropped out, just say you're taking a break to focus on personal
development or something. After the internship, you should be able to get a
job. I don't recommend doing a bootcamp if it will significantly deplete your
cash. If you have around 6 months of expenses saved up + the fees for the
course, then go for it! App Academy does not have an up-front charge as well,
so it sounds perfect for your situation.

~~~
cantremember
That's a really good idea. I'll look into that, thanks.

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weddpros
Starting a startup is not just a matter of technical skills and getting hired
as a coder might be difficult if you dropped out of college.

A few ideas, straight out of my mind (please don't flame): \- You should start
a blog to document your journey anyway. Maybe you'll write a book about the
whole experience later. \- Build a website for college dropouts meetups? Maybe
you can build something that's bigger than you. \- Learn something, and become
an expert at it. Learn Git/GitHub then write about it. Start a "become a Git
hero in 6 weeks" blog? \- teach yourself a niche technology, rather than Ruby
on Rails: socket.io mastery on node.js maybe? or mongodb admin? or nginx
admin?

Don't spread yourself too thin: you can't teach yourself everything at once.
Get a Wordpress.com blog instead of hosting one... except if you want to learn
it and then teach how to host your own Wordpress :)

Teach yourself something thoroughly, a skill that's rare enough (if you're THE
guy who wrote a book on sails.js, who cares you dropped out of college?).
D3.js could be another option.

HN is definitely the right place to target the perfect technological niche.
I've only suggested a few that I've looked into myself.

Remember, you don't have much to lose yet. But DO something, learn something.
You can be bold, but you must ship.

~~~
toadi
Write a blog howto setup a wordpress website. That's something new.

Where I'm from a college degree doesn't mean you are good in something. But
show you are someone who can follow through on something instead of being a
quitter.

Off course if there is something else you could show that you can reach a
significant goal that needed some persistence please pursue it.

~~~
weddpros
"blog howto setup a wordpress website. That's something new"

Irony I guess :) Hosting a wordpress site (on a VPS for instance) would be
more interesting, somewhat less common. I suggested hosting, not setup :) It
requires comparing VPS offers, choosing a distro, securing the server
(iptables/ssh), setup for MySql & Apache, installation of Wordpress, setup of
a cache (with memcached?), backup strategy... It could be much more than just
a blog post, and I know many professionals who are stuck with shared web
hosting and who would love some help with a VPS for their hosting needs.

------
tagabek
I recommend freelancing.

I am currently taking a year off from college and am on the path to leaving
entirely because I started freelancing a few months before making the decision
to take a hiatus.

In school, I was not learning enough in a way and speed that matched my needs
or mindset. I like to dive into topics and immerse myself in them quickly,
while building cool things - I also like to make a living while doing so. A
few months before I made the decision to take time off, I tried freelancing
and gave myself a goal - if I could consistently make $X/month, then I would
take a year off and work full time on freelancing to explore my options.
Although this sentence could be an entire book, the short story is that I hit
that goal and even started writing a book & building an audience^1.

Anyway, I decided to take the 1-year-long leave and start freelancing/writing
full time. I quickly learned two things: The first is that I love to learn.
The second is that learning from quality sources can be free or extremely
cheap. Since college, the only direct payment I make for my education is
$9/month to TeamTreehouse. Through things like TeamTreehouse, building
clients' and personal projects, I've taken my skill level of creating iOS apps
from beginner to advanced, which helped me increase freelancing income and
gave me the knowledge to write a book.

In short, freelancing will allow you to learn more about a technology you're
interested in, learn about building a business, make some kind of income, and
hopefully connect you with some cool people and opportunities.

^1: I wrote a whole post about how I got into freelancing and writing a book
on my website, but the main point is that you should start by building a small
portfolio of projects and target businesses (especially local) that have money
to spend. Freelancing/consulting is a science, and you can start making a
decent amount of money relatively quickly if done right.

------
tehwebguy
If you only have enough money for one of these programs I suggest you save it
and use free or cheap resources to learn the same skills. Build things that
stretch your current abilities, bit by bit.

You need experience, keep launching things so that you get a feel for real
world development and the problems that come up outside of programming
tutorials.

Look at some available programming jobs and read up on the specifics that they
are looking for (I've seen API integrations mentioned a lot, etc), then learn
that stuff.

If you are going to program for web then I suggest learning to love JavaScript
and the DOM as soon as possible.

[I dropped out of UCF (Comp Sci) in 2007 because the company I co-owned was
succeeding so much that I could no longer pass classes _and_ keep up with the
business]

------
ajcarpy2005
To add to others' advice, I'm going to recommend a subscription to Safari
Books Online. (no affiliation) I consider it to be a great platform for
reading technical books at an affordable price. (access to latest editions,
etc.)

The 'Head First' book series includes books for Python and Django as well as
many other programming languages. You may also find that a good design
patterns book will be valuable to your CS career.

I'm gonna assume you are aware of such online learning platforms as
Codecademy, Khan Academy, Udacity, etc. These can be good starting points
depending on your level of proficiency with basic syntax.

Beyond these recommendations, I'd say study open source code and code
libraries.

------
j45
In lieu of a finished degree you'll need a track record of completed and
shipped projects. Make that the focus of your Github, community and other
involvements, whether you code, or not.

------
brianchu
1\. Java and C++ are quite foundational, I think. I don't think it is a
problem at all that you don't learn version control in school. Version control
is quite simple conceptually and is a simple matter of memorizing the
API/commands.

2\. I'm familiar with the programs that you mentioned and the general hiring
climate in SV/SF. Email me (listed in my profile) for a deeper discussion on
your options.

------
anishkothari
I think you are dissatisfied with the program you were in, which is
understandable. My sincere advice would be to transfer to another college that
has a CS program you're interested in, on the west coast if you're so
inclined. do your research and find a few colleges that match your criteria.
Good luck!

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rjbond3rd
I would say yes, but choose the bootcamp carefully.

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SamReidHughes
What were your grades in the CS classes you took?

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troygoode
Where are you located?

~~~
cantremember
Northeast, but I'd like to move to the west coast when possible.

