
Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers - dannyr
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/06/15/arment-wwdc-fu
======
sachinag
The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers.
The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole.
First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better
apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays
to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in
Palm's marketplace. I do think the Apple folks are improving the platform. But
they _act_ like jerks.

Apple can fuck over iPhone devs, and they do. Frankly, it's what you would
expect from them. An abuser doesn't stop beating when you confront him; he
stops beating you when you leave.

~~~
lacker
_The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers._

No. You want a terrible platform, you try writing software for the Nokia
platform. Or heck, try any other phone platform besides the iPhone. It's not a
coincidence more apps are sold for the iPhone than for any other platform.

Apple has provided the best user experience and has the most users who are
willing to buy apps. They are doing you a great service by allowing third
party apps and promoting apps that hit their "best of" lists for free. Just
because the experience isn't perfect doesn't mean Apple is "fucking over
iPhone devs".

~~~
nuclear_eclipse
> _Or heck, try any other phone platform besides the iPhone._

Developing applications for the Android platform is an absolutely wonderful
process; I can build apps in Eclipse on any platform, plug in my phone via
USB, instantly upload the compiled code, and run the app with a _full debugger
suite_ in Eclipse allowing me to debug apps as they're running on the phone,
with breakpoints, full listing of in-scope variables, and a list of all
process threads. And I haven't even had to pay a developer fee! Imagine
that...

And while I haven't personally put an app on the Market, I've heard that the
Market process _is_ really straightforward and simple. And some of the apps
I've downloaded have had multiple new versions available _in a single week_ ,
so it's not slow, lumbering, and full of pitfalls like the App Store process.

The coincidence is just that Apple has spent more on marketing and branding
for the iPhone than other platforms, and they were the "first" to have an all-
in-one smartphone device with a decent UI, but they are by no means the "best"
on the market. They just spend a lot of money and resources to get everyone to
think they are.

~~~
cstejerean
" And some of the apps I've downloaded have had multiple new versions
available in a single week"

Not sure if having to update the same app multiple times in one week is
something I'd like to do as a consumer. I like the release early, release
often strategy for development, but when the app is running on someone else's
device I'd like to see people put a little more attention into the quality of
the software they ship. Why exactly does someone need to update their app
multiple times in one week?

~~~
Andys
Are you joking? I can't tell.

This is the age of web applications and permanently net-connected smart
phones. Who are you to tell me I can't fix a typo or push a bugfix more than
once a week?

~~~
cstejerean
No, not joking. I understand that you can fix a website instantly and as often
as you like, but these are not websites we're talking about, they are
applications that users have to download and install. If any desktop
application I ran had multiple bug fix updates per week every week I would be
pretty worried about the overall quality of the application and of their
development process.

------
zacharypinter
I have no objection to Apple running an official App Store with strict rules
for compliance. I don't even mind that they take a cut of the profits.

However, I find it utterly reprehensible that Apple doesn't allow developers
to distribute their applications on their own. iPhone owners should be able to
install whatever they want on the device they purchased.

~~~
jodrellblank
_iPhone owners should be able to install whatever they want on the device they
purchased._

Why? It's such an entrenched idea, but you don't get to rewrite paragraphs of
books, or scenes in films, or suits in a pack of playing cards or the firmware
in your alarm clock. The iPhone is sold as is, why _should_ we expect to use
it any differently?

~~~
zacharypinter
That's a valid question.

I tend to take it as a given, considering that the iPhone is essentially a
miniature computer and the past decade or so has thrived on customizable,
hackable personal computers.

Apple has always wanted to assert extra control on the products they ship.
With Mac's, they've controlled the hardware. Now they're trying to control the
software. Imagine a version of OS X where every application had to be
approved. Does that not strike you as horribly wrong? I wouldn't want to use
an operating system with those restrictions, though I imagine the best
response to such an OS would be to not purchase it.

~~~
jodrellblank
_Imagine a version of OS X where every application had to be approved. Does
that not strike you as horribly wrong?_

No.

"I don't like it" and "wrong" are not interchangeable.

~~~
sofal
Keep in mind that "wrong" and "should be outlawed" are not interchangeable
either. When someone argues that something is wrong, that doesn't always mean
they want to strip people or companies of their right to do it anyway. Don't
fight the straw men.

------
madair
Isn't making an NDA for a conference talk about publishing to the app store
quite a big fat fuck you too?

Seriously, how much more of this Apple-flagellation are you peeps gonna
accept?!?? (Yes _flagellation_.)

~~~
tlrobinson
I think most (if not all) talks at WWDC are covered by NDA, and have been in
recent memory. It's just Apple's style.

~~~
Zev
Indeed. IIRC, even Stump the Experts was covered by NDA this year — and that
definitely doesn't cover anything new.

~~~
silencio
just assume that everything minus the keynote is under nda no matter what it
is, including the lunchtime sessions. always has been, will likely not change.

~~~
Steve0
Just a question, what does one risk by not honoring this NDA?

~~~
silencio
Honestly, I have no idea. However, since I actually do like mac/iphone dev, I
would like to stay in Apple's good graces by not saying anything about the
content of NDA'd material unless noted otherwise ;)

I have heard from Apple engineers that leaking information as an Apple
engineer may as well equal getting fired though...

------
dca
The iPhone is slick. Its got an amazing UI for a mobile device. The input is
clever. Its very shiny.

But having had one for about 2 years, 1 year of which it was only about 60%
functional due to an "insensitive" touch screen, and having lived with the
less than friendly support staff, I'm pretty confident in saying that's about
as deep as it goes.

Its very shiny. Its designed to look pretty in Walmart and in AT&T stores and
in Apple stores. Its designed to have nifty little IMHO useless widgets that
impress your friends in 2 minute water cooler conversations.

But when it came time for me to finally buy a new phone, there was no way in
hell I was buying an iPhone.

Thus, this article surprises me in no way. I had no interest in developing for
the thing as soon as I read the license agreement, especially after having
used it for a while.

It would seem to me there's a huge opportunity here for someone else to come
in and blow the doors off of them, in terms of developer friendliness,
openness, support, price, etc... but in searching for a new phone I didn't see
anyone clearly better.

~~~
darshan
_It would seem to me there's a huge opportunity here for someone else to come
in and blow the doors off of them, in terms of developer friendliness,
openness, support, price, etc... but in searching for a new phone I didn't see
anyone clearly better._

Have you not heard of Android? Developer friendliness? Check. Openness? Check.
Support? Check. Price? Check.

Google is spectacular in all of these regards. Android is open source, and
Google is throwing serious weight into making things extremely easy for
developers. It's not without its problems, but I give it an 'A' in every area
you brought up.

~~~
dca
You're absolutely right - for the points I explicitly listed Android is
probably fine. My problem with the Android was different - I couldn't seem to
get my hands on one. Plus I wasn't exactly thrilled with the idea of switching
to T-Mobile anyway.

Also, I merged a bunch of ideas together and probably rushed that reply. I'm
horrible at posting to forums like this because I almost never get up the
nerve to do it.

Anyway, if Android was more available (i.e. if the O/S was adopted by a major
cellphone manufacturer like a Nokia or Motorola across many different models
on multiple carriers), and I could have easily got my hands on one, I would
have bought that instead. But as far as I know its only available at T-Mobile,
and only in the form of the G1, and was only _maybe_ available at this one
T-Mobile store that was quite a drive from here. Many other phones are easily
available within a very short drive, so that's what I ended up with.

~~~
darshan
Yeah, lack of options is currently a problem — but not for much longer: there
are around 20 new Android phones expected by the end of the year. <
[http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/28/google-
expects-18-20-an...](http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/28/google-
expects-18-20-android-handsets-this-year/) >

I'm guessing at least half will be available in the U.S. I'd also wager that,
if not by the end of the year, then at least by next summer, all major
carriers in the States will have multiple Android phones to choose from. So
things are moving in the right direction; when you're ready for your next
phone, I think you'll be very pleased with your options.

------
miles
Why not link to the original story, instead of blog spam (albeit from a famous
blogger)?

Trust, hostility, and the human side of Apple <http://www.marco.org/122990476>

~~~
danw
Seconded. It's link-jacking and Grubber isn't adding anything to the
discussion himself.

------
kevbin
"The content of sessions is under NDA, so I can’t tell you what it was about."

Without knowing the content, I'm reluctant to criticize the decision not to
take questions since I remember one WWDC session where one developer (let's
call him "dw") destroyed an AppleScript session with his Q&A ranting.

~~~
joezydeco
I asked a coworker who went to WWDC about this incident, and it went down
nothing like Marco said.

Yes, Apple engineers skipped the Q&A, but were all available at the foot of
the stage after the presentation to take individual (and off-the-record)
questions.

------
ellyagg
That wasn't a middle finger, it was fear.

------
danbmil99
Apple has always been a bunch of douchebags. In their own way, they are every
bit as evil as Msoft was in their heyday.

Power corrupts etc. What I can't understand is why there's this tendency to
rub people's face in how successful and powerful you are (ie the session as
described by OP). It speaks of an underlying insecurity. If you are the alpha
dog and know it, you should not be afraid to face your underlings squarely and
tell them "hey, I'm alpha dog, I don't need to explain every decision I make".
You know, like "I'm the Decider".

But that would be too direct and honest for the mamsy-pamsy, passive-
aggressive Silicon Valley style of "fuck you", which is something like "Oh,
that's nice. What, did you ask me another question? I thought you had left
already."

~~~
davidw
> they are every bit as evil as Msoft was in their heyday.

A significant portion of the reason why Microsoft dominated is because Apple
wanted to control the hardware _and_ the software. Microsoft was more than
willing to settle for 'just' the software, running on top of a more or less
open hardware platform. The Mac was better, earlier than Windows, and
continued to be for a while. But outside of a brief window, you could only buy
one from Apple - there was no vendor competition.

------
pierattt
We've recently submitted an app to the iTunes store and Apple has been nothing
but forthcoming and helpful. The review process took the expected 7 days, at
which point we got a personal call from an Apple representative who let us
know that they weren't going to be able to take the software as-is (the name
was too weird). He then offered to bump the app to the top of the queue once
we'd made the necessary revisions.

Not trying to negate the negative experiences of other developers, but I do
think a lot of this is a case of an understandably pissed-off minority.

~~~
pierattt
Oh, funny, Daring Fireball just linked to my developer's account of his
experience with this:

<http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/06/16/app-store-trend>

------
paulgb
_The App Store team simply knew what the questions were going to be like and
were unwilling to face them._

I haven't been following WWDC very closely, did Apple do something major to
piss off developers? Or is Marco referring to general App Store issues?

~~~
loginx
I'll never understand why you have to own a mac in order to develop iPhone
apps, then shell out another $99 just to use the SDK. This means that after
purchasing their already expensive phone, I need to shell out close to $1,000
just for the privilege of writing apps. I'm in the market for a new phone
right now, and I was really strongly considering an iPhone until I realized
that those were the restrictions for writing apps. I'm currently thinking of
getting an Android phone, but in Canada, the HTC-rebranded android phones have
been heavily modified by HTC... what could possibly go wrong!!

~~~
bonaldi
_I'll never understand why you have to own a mac in order to develop iPhone
apps_

It's not difficult to understand: the iPhone is based on a version of OS X, so
when Apple came to write the developer tools, they extended the OS X developer
tools. These, unsurprisingly, are OS X native.

You may not agree with it, but it's not incomprehensible.

~~~
loginx
Android (linux-based): Linux, Mac & Windows free SDK

Palm WebOS (linux-based): Mojo seems to be Linux, Mac & Windows

Blackberry: MDS is an Eclipse plugin, so Linux, Mac & Windows

Apple and Microsoft are the only ones to lock you onto one platform. Despite
all the marketing dollars invested in showing how different Apple and
Microsoft are, I see them apply the exact same strategies for the same
purposes every single time they get the chance.

------
shimi
If MS would have enforce such a strict policy on Windows, imagine how many
stability and security issues would have been solved in an instance.

But this is just a pipe dream, there is no way MS would be let to get away
with such practices, on the other hand Apple are well with in their right to
do so.

~~~
cubicle67
> ... there is no way MS would be let to get away with such practices ...

You mean like the Zune or XBox?

~~~
shimi
Doesn't matter which product,

------
stse
The consumer has been screwed so long, regarding mobile phones, that we think
it's normal by now. I mean, overlapping networks when wifi is widely
available, roaming charges, paying extreme prices per megabyte when sending a
text message. If intel would start restricting which OS you could run on there
processors, people would go crazy. Microsoft must even provide a IE free
version of windows in Europe.

