
Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks - randomname2
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-security-stockpiling-idUSKCN10W0MJ
======
detaro
How to make a headline from boring stuff...:

"oblige" and "required" are pretty strong words for what can't be more than a
recommendation. ("Die Bevölkerung _wird angehalten_ , einen individuellen
Vorrat [...]" is the German quote, which I'd maybe translate as "the public
_is asked to_ ")

Also, as far as I can tell from the news reports, the report and it's
recommendations are about general disaster preparedness, not terrorism or
other attacks specifically. The stockpile recommendations also are nothing
new, and I suspect they'll be ignored in the future just as much as they are
now. People in areas with bad-ish infrastructure or regular emergencies
(floodings, ...) will be prepared, others less so. I suspect civil defense
authorities in most countries have similar recommendations.

The headline as it stands is highly misleading.

~~~
jomamaxx
Those are indeed strong words. Governments in Europe have considerably more
power than in the new world. They can do these things - they view statehood as
literally the community. Sometimes that has advantages, sometimes not.

Even scarier, is the fact that this is even being done.

Since there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster
(Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to a terrorist
threat.

Over 1.5 million people flooded into Germany. 1 million official. Of those,
only 1/4 were 'refugees' \- i.e. displaced people from Syria and Iraq. The
remainder were young men from Algeria, Morocco, Pakistan, Tunisia, Egypt
seeking a better life.

Of course, I don't blame anyone for seeking a better life, but arbitrary
infusion of 100's of thousands of people into farily ethnically homogenous
state that already has problems with integration re: Turks, who stand out
strongly among other immigrants in terms of their non-integration - is crazy.

'Bleeding hearts' need to be met with 'responsible, pragmatic minds'.

Yes - we need to help refugees. Of course. But we have to be responsible about
it.

Angela Merkels unilateral and now unpopular policy of just opening the doors
is absurd. She later said she was 'surprised' that so many 'non refugees'
would decide to come - which illustrates how astonishingly politicos are out
of touch with human nature.

The moment she opened the gates, I assumed the outcome - millions would try to
come, by hook or by crook.

Canada and USA are shielded by oceans - but they and the UK have the right
approach - they take a specific number from UN camps - such refugees are well
vetted, they are credibly refugees and not terrorists, families instead of
just young men, and it happens at a controlled pace.

~~~
lispm
> there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster
> (Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to a terrorist
> threat.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Germany has floods, snow storms, etc. The government has to think about
disaster protection and what it means in a modern society, which depends on
concepts like 'always on'. Plans are twenty years old and need to be updated.

A few years ago there were some parts of Germany without electricity for a few
days and some were not reachable, because of a winter storm, which damaged
large power lines.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrill_(storm)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrill_\(storm\))

Example for a flood:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_European_floods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_European_floods)

~~~
jomamaxx
Yes, every country has such issues, but they are very minor in Germany in
comparison to other places, which is what I meant to say. Furthermore - those
'threats' have existed for two thousand year, the motivation for the current
mandate has nothing to do with environmental threats and 100% to do with
terrorists threats.

There are terrorists attacks monthly in Europe (you don't get the headlines
here in the US, and often, the 'attacks' are individuals with knives on
trains, or who attack a single family so they don't get attention) - and
European governments are really in a difficult situation - they don't know
what to do. So this mandate kind of a 'knee jerk reaction' to some extent,
possibly even 'political cover' so that they seem as though they are doing
something, if you want a cynical take.

~~~
lispm
That's all complete bullshit.

The North Sea coast, where I live here in Germany 100km away, has always seen
floods and violent storms. Additionally there are floods from heavy rains in
the Elbe region. I live in such a region, where such a flood is possible.

Germany has disaster protection plans. It has organizations to provide help,
like the THW. Etc. etc. The plan mentioned here has been in preparation for
several years now.

The plans have nothing to do with knife attacks in trains. You are clearly
clueless about this government paper.

------
jcfrei
I really despise this new news cycle, where random conspiracy blogs stumble
upon a rudimentary and minor policy change, take it out of context, put their
alarmist, sensationalist spin on it, spread it through their blog networks and
facebook groups and make it appear like legitimate news. Always under the
pretense that they want to educate citizens when all they really care about is
advertising money. And 24 hours later the whole ruckus is forgotten and a new
piece of information is taken out of context. Most people develop good filters
with regard to such news while others don't and then feel like the world might
come to an end any second.

------
johnloeber
How is this in any way noteworthy? Lots of governments recommend a small
personal stockpile. The Swiss government recommends that every resident
stockpiles at least six weeks'[0] worth of food.

Making an issue of such a policy in light of recent attacks is nothing but
fear-mongering.

[0] It may have been six months' worth. I forget, and don't have the source on
me right now.

------
allendoerfer
There are elections in two states and federal elections coming up in 2017.
Security and refugees are the main topics. The governing parties are trying to
sound hard to stop the rise of the populist AFD by adjusting to the right.
Especially the CSU, which since the beginning of time governs Bavaria (where
the attacks happended) and traditionally was the rightmost not yet extremist
party, tries to compete with populism. Claims to forbid burkas and stuff like
that have been made.

When the Munich shooting happened the whole city was locked down, the minister
of defence unilaterally set military troops on call who for obvious historic
reasons are only allowed to act inside Germany if the alternative would
literally be "no Germany left", so she got bashed for that, police forces from
neighbouring German states were called to Munich, the federal special unit
GSG9 came, and even Austrian Cobra forces came to help.

As bad as this sounds: This was only a mass shooting from a crazy person and
while there was misinformation and panic spreading, after the initial
catastrophe the situation was immediately under control. The shooter is dead,
the guy who sold him the weapon got caught.

There is really no reason to panic here, to bully muslims or let alone allow
the military to act inside the borders. Not having soldiers on the streets (or
police who act like soldiers for that matter) is a privilege we should not
give up so easily.

And I don't think it is reasonable to expect any terrorist group to be able to
keep me locked inside my home for 5 days, when authorities here are already
calling foreign forces and keep the military on call, as soon as a teenager
with a Glock goes crazy.

~~~
randomname2
Just to underscore that, the leader of the Alternative for Germany party
(Frauke Petry) only yesterday spoke out in favor of people arming themselves
with guns and self-defense devices after all the violent attacks last month:

"German right-wing leader backs citizens' right to arm themselves" \-
[http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN10V0A5](http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN10V0A5)

~~~
allendoerfer
I think with a population of 80 million, you cannot entirely avoid shootings.
9 people died in Munich and this is horrible. And while each one on there is
terrible, the Wikipedia category for German shootings [0] is small. The
obvious comparison with the US shows that arming the population would be
_very_ counterproductive. So when I read stuff like that, I am asking myself
whether she actually is that stupid or whether she knows exactly what she says
and just tries to manipulate the people and what would be worse.

The only positive thing to note about the latest rise of the far-right parties
in Europe is that it nicely debunked the morale high ground of women in
politics. They can be just as evil/corrupt/populist/human, the liberal ones
were just the first who showed up.

[0]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Amoklauf_in_Deutschl...](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Amoklauf_in_Deutschland)

------
insulanian
There's a joke in my country (from which many people emigrated to Germany):

    
    
        - What would you do if tomorrow is the Judgement day?
        - I'd pack my family and go straight to Germany.
    

I guess not anymore...

------
DasIch
The German government has recommended this for decades already. What's new is
that someone important with nothing else to do probably stumbled over this
topic and decided it should be taken more seriously.

~~~
mxfh
This is pretty much the equivalent to the random reading of TOS or the DoS
Travel Security Advice [1]: It's always there in that pretty same wording, yet
is only read or of general interest when it's changed.

[1]
[https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/german...](https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/germany.html)

------
toomanybeersies
I'd imagine that most people would have enough food to last for 10 days in
their pantry, fridge, and freezer.

Obviously, the water part is a bit different, most people won't have 15-odd
litres of water just sitting around.

I'm fairly sure that most countries advise residents to keep 3 days supply of
food and water stockpiled, or maybe it's just the countries that are disaster-
prone.

More interesting than the food stockpile though:

> and pressed for plans for the military to train more closely with police in
> preparing for potential large-scale militant attacks.

Isn't the military constitutionally barred from operating domestically in
Germany?

~~~
mschuster91
> Isn't the military constitutionally barred from operating domestically in
> Germany?

It is, except for disaster relief (e.g. major floods). During the Munich nazi
amok run, the Feldjäger (military police) were alerted, though, and
politicians are widely talking about increased cooperation and joint exercises
between police and military.

------
mschuster91
German speaking here. It's important to know that there are regional (Landtag)
elections coming up, and the right-wing AfD tries to paint current politicians
as a bunch of incompetent people incapable of providing security for the
German people - and the established politicians react with populist stuff like
this and the idea of forbidding double citizenship and Niqabs.

Everything that sounds like populist bullsh*t coming from Germany should be
regarded with the elections in mind.

~~~
jomamaxx
By 'populism' you mean 'people speaking their minds'? And that they should be
ignored?

By 'populism' do you mean the vast majority of Europeans and clear majority of
Germans who are not supportive of the 'open doors' immigration policy?

Especially those made by diktat - without popular consultation, without legal
consideration, without a vote in parliament - which affects the entirety of
Europe?

Maybe Germans can have their 'leaders' stop forcing policy on the rest of
Europe?

And by the way - your argument does not work in your favour: it is not the AfD
telling people to prepare - it's the actual government wherein there is no AfD
people to make such claims.

The very fact that the government - weary of people acting out against Muslims
- is willing to make this statement says a lot about the actual threat
environment.

~~~
mschuster91
> By 'populism' you mean 'people speaking their minds'? And that they should
> be ignored?

AfD is openly cooperating with organized neo-nazis (e.g. PEGIDA).

> By 'populism' do you mean the vast majority of Europeans and clear majority
> of Germans who are not supportive of the 'open doors' immigration policy?

"clear majority of Germans"? Oh no. AfD and friends are a tiny, but vocal and
hateful group. Just like Trump.

> And by the way - your argument does not work in your favour: it is not the
> AfD telling people to prepare - it's the actual government wherein there is
> no AfD people to make such claims.

The ones responsible for the fear-mongering are the conservative parties in
the government (CDU, CSU). They desperately want to prevent more success for
the AfD by copying the fear-mongering strategy of the AfD. Needless to say
that the "appeasement" policy both fuels the AfD and moves the direction of
the government more and more to the right end.

> The very fact that the government - weary of people acting out against
> Muslims - is willing to make this statement says a lot about the actual
> threat environment.

The threat is not Islamist terrorism. The threat is a massive explosion of
right-extremist violence - in 2015 alone, over a thousand attacks on refugee
camps/homes occurred, 92 of those arsons, the rest open violence, Hakenkreuz
graffitis etc; just recently neo-Nazis stabbed a young member of Die LINKE
party, a pro-Refugee mayor (Henriette Reker of Cologne) got stabbed, neo-Nazis
rioted in Heidenau exactly one year ago.

~~~
back_beyond
How are you able to consider Trump hateful?

------
kordless
There's an insane amount of shipping going on right now and I seriously can't
imagine terrorists can disrupt those supply chains. We'll just reroute around
them - there is plenty of duplicate shipping channels in the world. If
terrorists can get us to slide to the _assumption_ of attacks instead of
realizing shit happens and we're trying to fix it...well, they've already won.

~~~
smacktoward
_> there is plenty of duplicate shipping channels in the world_

But there are choke points, too. For example, the Strait of Malacca
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Malacca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Malacca)),
the relatively narrow passage that connects the Indian Ocean to the Pacific.
Something like 25% of the entire world's shipped goods pass through the
Strait; and it's especially important for China, as nearly all of the imported
oil that keeps her industrial machine running is shipped to them from the
Middle East via that route.

A terrorist attack on the Strait isn't inconceivable, either. Al Qaeda
experimented with attacks on ships in the years before 9/11, culminating in
the attacks on the USS _Cole_ in 2000
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing))
and the oil tanker MV _Limburg_ in 2002
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Jewel#Bombing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Jewel#Bombing)).
This line of effort petered out following the capture of the "terrorist
entrepreneur" who had driven it, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahim_al-
Nashiri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahim_al-Nashiri)), but that
doesn't mean some other ambitious fellow won't pick it up again in the future.

None of which is to say that the sky is falling and people (in Germany or
elsewhere) need to start stockpiling water and digging their Apocalypse
Bunkers, of course. It's just worth noting that the space through which goods
can be shipped is narrower than most people may realize.

------
eknkc
I never thought about it before but now I wonder if I should have a small
stock just in case. Nothing serious, maybe 2 weeks worth of stuff to live on.
That I can have and forget, not maintain indefinately. Anyone have something
like that? Any tips?

~~~
toomanybeersies
Everyone should have at least 3 days of food and water stockpiled. Especially
if you live in an area where you might experience a natural or man-made
disaster (doesn't Turkey get lots of earthquakes?).

You want food that can be eaten unheated, all the better if it's not in cans
so you don't need a can opener. Get some biscuits or crackers, some canned
meat (corned beef or tuna), and canned or dehydrated vegetables (soaking them
works well enough). Dehydrated potatoes are also light and compact, and
provide good energy. Chocolate is also a great compact source of energy, and
lasts for a long time. Grab some muesli/granola bars as well for eating on the
go.

A standard tin of corned beef will last a couple of days. A mixture of corned
beef, dehydrated potatoes, and dehydrated peas will keep you going for a long
time. I've eaten a pot of it all mixed together and gone until the evening
eating hardly anything while climbing mountains.

As for water, you'll want at least 2 litres per day, and you'll want to rotate
your stock every 6-12 months as water does go stale.

If you want to set yourself up for longer term, I'd suggest getting a gas
cooker or something to cook on, and then you can also boil water to get clean
water. The alternative for long term water is iodine or other purification
tablets, but they taste nasty.

Apart from food, you'll also want to keep some medical supplies: bandages,
sling, tape, gloves (these are important!). Toilet paper is also essential.

You'll want to keep all this stuff in a box or bag that you can easily grab
and get the fuck out. I live in an earthquake prone area, so it pays to be
prepared here.

~~~
maxerickson
For people that are healthy, 3 days of food is pretty much only a matter of
comfort.

Peanut butter is about 2x as calorie dense as canned meat (and it tastes good
and is going to be more nutritious than cheap canned meat).

~~~
toomanybeersies
Forgot about peanut butter. It's one of my essentials when going hunting or
hiking. Goes surprisingly well with corned beef and bread, like a half-arsed
satay.

Canned meat (especially tuna) is a good source of protein, which peanut butter
doesn't really provide. There's also a moral effect of eating meat. You could
just stockpile a few boxes of muesli bars, which are calorie dense, but you'd
get pretty upset with eating them after a day or two.

Even the Army realises this, and attempts to give variation in their MREs and
in their First Strike ration packs. You could feed a soldier on a
fat/sugar/vitamin/fibre mix, but you'd kill their morale pretty damn quick.

~~~
maxerickson
I'd find spam a lot more demoralizing than peanut butter.

I looked in the cupboard. Tuna, which is almost just protein and water, has 17
grams of protein in a 74 gram serving. Chunky peanut butter has 7 grams of
protein in a 32 gram serving ([http://www.jif.com/products/extra-crunchy-
peanut-butter](http://www.jif.com/products/extra-crunchy-peanut-butter)).

The tuna is 70 calories. The peanut butter is 190 calories (it has quite a lot
of fat in it).

Searching online, canned ham appears to be ~100 calories for 50-some grams,
with 10 grams of protein. Spam compares to the peanut butter, with 180
calories per serving and 7 grams of protein
([http://www.spam.com/varieties/spam-
classic](http://www.spam.com/varieties/spam-classic)).

So by mass, the peanut butter does a pretty great job of supplying protein,
and it comes with a bunch of calories too. Oil packed tuna would do better
with the calories, but I find it off-putting.

edit: Here's a link for tuna:

[http://starkist.com/products/chunk-light-tuna-in-water-
can](http://starkist.com/products/chunk-light-tuna-in-water-can)

It's a different product than I looked at, but close enough.

