
Gamers deemed too fast for real-life race - ColinWright
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/gamers-deemed-too-fast-real-life-race-143459150.html
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naner
Put simply: they are too fast for the beginner series and too inexperienced
for the pro series.

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efnx
Which means ultimately that they are dangerous, right? They drive too fast to
be safe with the other slower beginners and they don't have the experience
needed to be trusted to make good decisions with the people who drive in the
faster circuit. It doesn't seem wrong, it just seems like a natural
consequence of learning in a simulator.

~~~
brownbat
> Which means ultimately that they are dangerous, right?

I think that's the implication. The worry is that the claim isn't reliable. A
driver who can control a vehicle at higher speeds than you will always appear
"dangerous."

And similar claims were used to exclude women from the Indy 500 until years of
women in F1 and NASCAR illustrated the prejudice was absurd.

It's admittedly a tough call though. On the one hand, the claim's being made
by insiders with vested interests and skepticism towards outsiders. On the
other hand, the cost of letting in dangerous drivers is far higher than the
cost of prejudice, so there's a reason to err on the side of caution.

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Shorel
They are actually dangerous.

I am one of the people who learned in a simulator, and then bought a real car.

Simulators teach some bad stuff, the wheel is amazing and it's just like the
real one, but the pedals are not and the use of mirrors is totally different
from the real thing.

Also, in simulators any mistake is simply a reset away, there is no survival
instinct. This is a very important point, and I think, the most crucial
difference.

They are dangerous because those cars, real or virtual are driven to the limit
and the most minimal difference in perception will be amplified in those
conditions.

Having said that, in a real car, I can brake better, with more control and
faster than people who have only driven real cars. I have never missed a
shift, and I change gears in less than half a second (I drive a stick). And I
have never crashed. But I have never tested a real car to the limit.

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ColinWright
To those who complain about the title, don't blame me. Many times in the past
I've created a more informative title and used it, only to have to "reverted"
by the mods.

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batgaijin
Well for a subject with such gravitas I can sympathize with the mods.

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ynniv
I don't know what the submitted title was, but the corrected "Gamers deemed
too fast for real-life race" is dishonest link-bait at it's finest.
<sarcasm>Well done</sarcasm>, mods.

"Gamers perform too well in real-life to be considered amateurs" would have
been nice.

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prsutherland
I realize it is for better sensitivity and control, but the lack of shoes in
the picture is amusing.

On a more serious note, maybe taking that talent and having them move up
through the ranks on lower series to get the experience to go pro is a viable
option. If the talent is as good as they say, then they'll do well on smaller
carts and get the experience to race professionally quicker. Nissan should
just make it the "senior-class" part of their program.

~~~
stcredzero
Eventually, market pressures will result in new accepted standards for
training with greater utilization of simulators. Hopefully, there won't be any
deaths resulting from using too much simulator training.

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gilrain
The type of games these players play, how seriously they take them, and the
advanced setups they use mean a more honest headline might be: "The best
amateur racers with countless hours of simulator time are sometimes better
than professional racers."

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stcredzero
I wonder how much of that could be due to being less sensitive to danger than
they should be. If most of the conditioning was in a context where there were
never any severe consequences for failure, you'd expect trainees that were
considerably more aggressive than those conditioned in contexts where
consequences could include death.

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mkilling
That doesn't translate. I spent considerable time playing racing simulations,
and still my first time on a real track was an intimidating experience.

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stcredzero
One personal anecdote may well be true and valuable, but it still isn't usable
data.

~~~
jamesaguilar
Normally this rejoinder is used by people who have provided data and received
an anecdote in response. However, you haven't even provided an anecdote . . .

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stcredzero
Well, no, of course not! If you look above, _I asked a question._ In case you
are wondering, it wasn't a rhetorical question.

My estimated likelihood that you pose questions in order to make subliminal
rhetorical points and so tend to readily project that behavior onto others
would have increased, but one anecdote isn't usable data.

EDIT: Also, I see I forgot the question mark, which may have caused confusion.

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sliverstorm
This is a terrible title. What actually happened was "Gamers deemed too fast
for real-life Professional/Gentleman class"

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obviouslygreen
It's a weak title for at least one more reason than that. Clicking through
obviously isn't a Herculean effort, but without doing so I (and I suspect many
others) would have had absolutely no idea what sort of competition was being
described.

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dylangs1030
This is cool, but shouldn't be all that surprising. The article doesn't go
into any metrics used to test beginner racing candidates.

It's essentially like pairing astronauts who have done extensive virtual
testing with people who have limited field experience. You expect the former
group to outdo the latter, but obviously they will underperform against those
who have done extensive field work _in space._

And so on. Many programs use virtual testing as a precursor to field work. So
I'm not surprised that expert gamers who have probably clocked in near 10,000
hours of virtual racing can beat comparatively greenhorn racers who know how
to drive a car but don't have much actual racing experience.

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ceautery
Am I the only one that was reminded of The Last Starfighter?

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mrkmcknz
As opposed to discussing an article it seems that normality amongst HN is to
now debate the choice of title.

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bradleyjg
Or sometimes the aesthetics and usability of the webpage the article is on.

Not that our meta-comments are much better.

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ryanaghdam
Apparently iRacing
<[http://www.iracing.com/testimonials/>](http://www.iracing.com/testimonials/>);
has some value in helping drivers train for different tracks.

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shousper
Perhaps when we can race real cars via remote control (with ultra low latency
obviously) the gamers will rise :)

One might suspect the same could become of other genres _cough_ FPS _cough_ ;)

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teamonkey
> One might suspect the same could become of other genres cough FPS cough ;)

Like America's Army?

I remember reading an anecdote about the development. Apparently the intent
was a game that could be used to train real soldiers and it received millions
of tax dollars of funding. However, as it was also intended to be sold to the
public, the developers 'gamified' it because in playtests gamers saw it as
'boring' and even 'unrealistic' (because the basis for realism is usually
Hollywood). This in turn made it too unrealistic for use as a detailed
training program within the army.

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brownbat
I'm surprised they don't just keep the program alive underground and teach the
drivers to shoot for second place among the amateurs.

It's not like they're incapable of driving slower.

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ckluis
And Surgeons who play video games are better surgeons… isn't the fact that
intense game playing teaches skills clearly evident at this point?

