
Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device - sampo
http://www.talouselama.fi/nakoislehti/jolla%20ceo%20you%20will%20soon%20be%20able%20turn%20your%20android%20device%20into%20a%20sailfish%20device/a2218386
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jkldotio
Good, Google is beginning to really frustrate me. Why can't I cut and paste
from the description box on a Youtube video? Serving up a totally broken
Google images page to Firefox for Android may be Firefox's fault but they
should test with other browsers. It has a totally broken permissions model,
notably for location access which after struggling with its nagging for a year
I just gave up and now Facebook et al are all dialing in my location
constantly. It has totally broken control over background apps waking up as
well.

You are just a consumer on Android. The founders call Google 'the third half
of your brain', and when you use Android you realise you don't control that
third half, it's controlled for advertising purposes (with access granted or
taken for various government agencies). Ubuntu, Jolla or Firefox need to
succeed on mobile because Android is actually worse than Windows 95, XP etc
for user customisation and freedom. That's stock on a Nexus too, the custom
versions from handset manufacturers are a whole different train wreck.

~~~
hablahaha
Oh man the Samsung version is the epitome of a train wreck. At some point,
without my knowledge, NFL Mobile got installed on my phone and now every time
I try to open a link, it completely ignores my preferences and asks me what
program to open it with, one of which is NFL Mobile. It's just so nonsensical
it's laughable. Nonstock Android is worse than Windows vendor bloatware.

~~~
sbt
This. I regret buying a Samsung S4 because it is loaded with so much crap.
First, Google preloads their crap onto it, then Samsung preloads their crap
ontop of that. THEN, AT&T decides that it should also provide you with
messaging apps etc, so it preloads it crap ontop of that too.

I am re-asked every god damn day if I want to connect the Samsung whatever the
fuck (tm) to Facebook, and I refuse, EVERY DAY. I have no words.

The marketers/business guys won, and the result is an utter trainwreck.

The sad thing is that even though the S4 is super powerful, basic tasks like
opening up the contacts list or recent messages, still load sluggish!

Not sure if I like Jolla, but I just need to dump this Android bloatware fast.

~~~
Paul_O_Meany_Jr
Installing a custom rom like Cyanogenmod or AOKP would likely solve a lot of
your problems. Both are available for your device and require little more work
than establishing root, installing safe strap (or another recovery depending
on whether your bootloader is locked or not), and then installing the rom.
You'll still need to download and install the Google Apps package if you want
access to the app store, but it cuts down on a lot of the bloat and adds a lot
of useful features.

~~~
freehunter
Here's a problem: I'm looking for a phone that can do T-Mobile wifi calling,
which means I need a T-Mobile phone and a T-Mobile ROM, and I'm struggling to
find a T-Mobile phone that has the least amount of crapware on it. If you use
T-Mobile wifi calling, you can't flash a new ROM.

~~~
Paul_O_Meany_Jr
Is there any particular reason it has to be T-Mobile Wi-Fi calling? There are
lots of free apps that let you do Wi-Fi calling through Google Voice (so you
can still use your current number).

~~~
freehunter
I want it to be seamless. I don't want people to have to call one number if
I'm on wifi and another if I'm on 4G. I want to be able to make an outbound
call and not worry about if it's 4G or wifi. I want to be able to send and
receive text messages just like normal.

I want wifi to be just like a cell tower. Are there other apps that can do
that (and that aren't a nightmare to set up?)

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seabrookmx
Everyone keeps looking to Sailfish as a FOSS alternative to Android. I'm sorry
to burst your bubble, but the "swipe UI" in Sailfish is proprietary. As for
the rest of the OS, it's just Mer (ie. a fork of MeeGo). As AOSP is a fully
functional OS even without Google's proprietary bits, I'd say Android is still
the better bet. If you are that dedicated, you can use pure AOSP and load all
your apps onto the SD card and simply install with the package manager. It's
as easy as installing .debs on a Debian based distro or installing from .dmg
on a Mac.

I think the big takeaway from this is that _Mer_ will be compatible with a
bunch more Android devices. This means you can then install Plasma Active on
top of it, and have a pure FOSS mobile OS that actually performs well (Plasma
Active seems to run quite slick on the first gen Nexus 7 anyways).

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da_n
I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to
avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as
convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince
me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear,
now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS
app, Google Now baked into the launcher, everything is G+ now, gallery app is
on deathwatch. I feel like a peasant to Google, while they battle with the
OEMs, Samsung, carriers, social networks etc they simply force feed their
services down users throats, there is little point having an Android phone if
you do not want to live 100% Google. Google are acting as feudal lords, they
command us the peasants to do their bidding. Well I am moving out, I left iOS
for a reason, I want my freedom.

~~~
eropple
I'm curious how Android's choice of default applications implies less
"freedom". Don't like SMS being folded into Hangouts? Use Handcent--it's
better anyway. Will the Gallery app disappear? Use QuickPic--it's better
anyway. Don't like the new launcher? There's Nova and Apex and Smart and a
dozen other really good choices. (They're better anyway, too!)

And if that's not enough for you, sure, go try something else, but the
dramatics don't really help make your case.

~~~
berdario
You have a different idea of "freedom" than we do

The problem is not bundling in closed-source applications... the problem is
removing (and thus stopping development) of the previously-default open source
applications

Are Nova, Apex and Smart OSS? I looked at their web pages, but I don't see any
link to the sources

basically: you still have freedom 0 (and possibly freedom 2, if you're willing
to go against the EULA)... but, concerning freedom 1 and freedom 3, Android
(as in AOSP) is stuck to something like version "4.*"

~~~
eropple
Yes, I do have a very different definition than you do, which is what makes
your almost-begging-the-question rhetorical adoption of the implicit
redefinition of freedom as Those Enumerated By Richard Stallman...well, kind
of funny. On the other hand, I will enjoy my freedom to use software without
concerns of ideological purity because I have alternatives if I don't like
them.

Nothing stops you from writing your own to-your-specifications launcher or SMS
client or email client atop the openly-licensed Android stack (and leverage
having an actually useful, widely-supported phone). People might even use your
GNU-gold-starred alternative if it's more than barely functional, though the
track record of said gold-starred software with regards to UX doesn't fill me
with optimism. But I do wish you luck.

~~~
berdario
Actually, I'm nowhere "ideologically pure" as you think I am.

I'm still using my google-sanctioned stock android, and I routinely use some
sort of closed source software...

My point was more like: I'm using google-android now, out of convenience, but
I stopped strictly seeing Android releases[1] as improvements (and thus I
_might_ refrain to use KitKat... if I'll move to a google-less cyanogenmod or
to Ubuntu or Jolla I still don't know)

Also, My intention was not to be rhetoric: I just found Stallman definitions
of freedom useful in this context to understand what some people are
complaining about

[1] as in "Android used on Nexus", compared to AOSP

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Brakenshire
Very interesting section on China:

> ”There is no such culture in these parts of the world [Finland], but there
> are people that are installing new operating systems on their devices. In
> China it is mainstream. About half of the smartphone buyers are upgrading
> their older or cheaper devices with a better version of Android.”

> “For us it is a possibility to distribute our operating system especially in
> China. There are websites that already distribute [OS] software and the
> Chinese customers are doing it ­so we don’t have to teach them. We just have
> to get Sailfish to those websites – and to make sure that Sailfish will run
> on different kind of Android devices.”

Half of all smartphone buyers are flashing their devices with new operating
systems? That seems astonishing.

~~~
jckt
I know quite a few of these people and most of them say that when they do that
it feels like they're using a totally new phone, without much cost.

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pinaceae
Android is so widespread due its nature as the QNX of the mobile world. A
manufacturer gets it for free and then can add shit on to it.

The vast majority of users chose a cheap smartphone, not Android explicitly.
Samsung and others do not even mention Android anymore, that for specsheets
like the processor being used. China has this large number of Android devices
which are non-Google, no Play Store, no Google Now, nothing.

Now Jolla comes in and acts as an alternative to Android. For whom? End users?
99% don't give a shit. Like asking which fuel injection systems your car uses.

So what does Jolla offer to manufacturers to choose it over Android? Even less
restrictions than the open Android? Less cost? If so, it can't be price - will
they adapt the OS for specific hardware for free as well?

Android compatibility. You want a KILLER feature? iOS compatibility. Enable
devs to simply copy over their code and run their shit on Jolla.

~~~
Zigurd
iOS compatibility is not impossible, but it is much harder, and would require
a budget, shooting from the hip, 5X more and 2X the time to arrive at
something end-users would find usable. You would have to do something like
OpenStep, except with iOS APIs.

With Android you can use the AOSP bits.

~~~
puller
Not to mention that iOS compatibility would make a HUGE legal target for Apple

~~~
Zigurd
That risk is similar to what Xamarin faced, and evidently they were fund-able.

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humpty44
This is the best news I've read all month! I really hope they make the process
easy. As an ex-Nokia user I've never been the biggest fan of Google's android
monoculture and big brother approach to my privacy. I'd be interested to see
how sailfish compares to android in terms of resource utilisation.

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buster
I'd love that. I have some older devices sitting around and totally would
install Sailfish on it and try it out!

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Zigurd
I think Jolla has the best chance among the new entrants in mobile OSs, but I
think this is a fairly minor issue. You can run Ubuntu touch on many Android
devices, too. It's more important for Ubuntu because they don't have their own
handset or an OEM launch partner.

I would rather have a Jolla handset.

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rwmj
He doesn't address the obvious question: Why? Why for the end user? Why for
Jolla?

~~~
gmuslera
People reflashing devices is not "all users", and that leaves open a few
possibilities.

For users, a far better user interface (still prefer the user interface of the
N9 over android one), a new app ecosystem (work most android apps, plus jolla
native/meego/mer ones, maybe will be a compatibility layer to run ubuntu
touch/tizen ones, and as it is based on qt/qml, probably will be easy to port
BB10 ones too. And of course, ports of linux apps in general (the N900 had a
lot of them)

For Jolla is, of course, improving installed base, enabling people to try, or
even improve the OS, and generate a critical mass of developers and fans that
will make the rest of potential users to see with good eyes the phones with
jolla built in.

Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install
cyanogenmod in their old windows phones. If this is more efficient than
android giving new life to old android phones could give enough visibility to
the new OS.

~~~
laureny
> Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install
> cyanogenmod in their old windows phones.

Not really, no. Only a tiny fraction of Android users even know what cyanogen
mod is, let alone install it on their phone.

That's not at all what made Android successful.

~~~
TsiCClawOfLight
He's referring to the beginning, were geeks were still important for android.

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frozenport
The only thing that will save Jolla is a time machine.

Its important to note that most of us don't like Google for moral rather then
practical reasons. The best strategy might be to upstream Android to the Linux
kernel and and develop a userland clone.

~~~
htns
Jolla is a pretty small company so selling relatively overpriced phones just
with the appeal of a different OS to a very small market might be profitable.
At least it's a saner strategy than them trying to go against Google ":D"

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contingencies
Firefox OS aims to be open, targeting the whole world including developing
countries. (Where there's still growth)

Jolla is Nordic people trying desperately to maintain a mobile industry.
(Targeting existing consumers, who are well catered for)

I know which I'm developing for.

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AlexanderDhoore
Yes! Good. I'd be worried if they didn't.

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peterdelahaye
Maemo, Moblin, LiMo, Bada, MeeGo, mer, Tizen, Tizen NG, Nemo Mobile, Sailfish
OS...

This is tragic.

All this effort gone into endless, pointless rebranding and new website
designs instead of new code.

~~~
rzr
What's tizen-ng ? note android did not design it's own kernel they just
rebranded it :)

~~~
panzi
Android (Google) did not rebrand the kernel, they just don't mention it.

