Ask HN: Which is the best laptop for programmers under budget? - hello-coders
======
golergka
What kind of programmer?

Are you a web developer? Server-side that needs to work on highload, or just
client-side JS? Are you developing games and need to test your builds on a
good enough GPU? Or may be you're working with ML? Do you need x86, or would
you be comfortable with arm?

Do you work in your office, or travel to customers a lot? Do you develop iOS
or MacOS apps, do you need to run Windows (or just prefer Visual Studio), or
are you comfortable with one of Linux distributions? Or, may be, you could
live on Android?

What's your 'budget'? Is it $200, $500 or $1500?

There's no such thing as an average "programmer".

~~~
muzani
Personally, I do Android programming and the optimal machine to run Android
Studio is not the optimal machine to develop on web. Like for Android Studio
or even Java, you'd want a fast drive over high RAM and a lot of the
bottlenecks are in CPU speed. But if you're doing web dev, you probably want
bash and don't need a lot of HDD speed. So the cost effectiveness might be
highest with a MacBook Air.

------
sampo
The most recent Lenovo T4x0 or T4x0s (a thinner version) that you can afford.
Add more memory and a larger ssd disk as needed.

There is nothing wrong with used 3-4 years old machines. Processor power
hasn't increased much. Just check the screen resolution, and factor in the
extra cost if you need to add memory and swap the ssd disk.

The 440 series from 3 years ago didn't have physically separate mouse buttons
on the touchpad (you just press down or tap at the corner areas of the
touchpad), which some people found annoying.

~~~
iwintermute
cheap lenovos have horrendous lcd with poor resolution and horrible view
angles

~~~
feminist17
Also:

Insecure: [http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/security-failings-
demonstrate-a...](http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/security-failings-demonstrate-
avoid-lenovo/)

Some fry your lap:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=lenovo+hot](https://www.google.com/search?q=lenovo+hot)

~~~
parimm
>Insecure

None of the listed issues were applicable for the laptops that OP recommended

------
kk_cz
It's hard to answer, unless you define the budget, but I'd say refurbished
ThinkPad T420 (Last model to has decent keyboard). Put some RAM & SSD inside
and you have nicely built and powerful machine.

~~~
vijayr
Those who have experience buying used laptops - where do you buy from (other
than Apple stores)? If not from standard stores, are there any standard tests
you do to make sure of the specs etc?

~~~
jetti
I bought my current laptop from Overstock.com. It worked out because they sent
me a better model than what was listed. It is a Haswell quad-core i7 with AMD
Bonaire, a 17.3" screen and a 750 GB hard drive (not SSD). I paid about $400
for it and just spent $65 more to put in more memory and will have 24GB of
memory in it.

------
grecy
I have a 2012 13" MacBookAir that I have used for tens of thousands of hours.
With 8GB of RAM it handles most things, even 1080p footage in Final Cut Pro.

I did just put a new battery in it. Other than that it has been flawless, and
I bet they are cheap now.

~~~
zoltaan
I agree! I have it for ca. 4.5 years now with i7 processor and 512M SSD and it
still delivers. I carried out CAD related developments on Windows in a VM and
it was pretty satisfactory (except big or computation intensive cases but
average desktop was in pair that time). I had to move on to more powerful
desktops yet I still use it for this and that. Its size is still the perfect
ballance to me in usability and portability and feel no urge to replace it
yet.

------
zapperdapper
Funny I was asked this just the other day by my son!

We did some research and the Lenovo with i7 proc 8GB RAM (to be upgraded later
to 16GB), with SSD (256GB) was under £600 (which was his budget). It comes
with Windows 10.

So, take a look at Lenovo.

\--- Tangential thoughts below ---

About 6 months ago I was given a Lenovo Thinkpad Ultrabook (i7, 20GB RAM) for
a contract I was working on and was blown away by the performance compared to
my MacBook Pro. I have been a Mac Fanboy for more than 10 years, but I find
myself having a harder time to justify the premium on them. My personal
MacBook Pro is very sluggish compared to the Ultrabook.

Couple of nice things about the Ultrabook. I can run a Linux VM (actually
multiple at the same time) for "real work" and dive back into Windows for
things that aren't so reliable on Linux (e.g. WebEx). Also ready for the
"Linux on Windows" thing Microsoft are doing - which I hate to admit actually
looks quite cool.

For my next personal dev laptop (next year) I will probably go for an i7 32GB
Lenovo Thinkpad Ultrabook. I will probably leave Windows 10 on there. It
really surprises me to say I probably won't by another MacBook Pro unless
Apple get their finger out.

------
segmondy
The cheapest laptop the programmer can comfortably afford. Most programmers
are not limited by their machines but their mind. Unless you are doing cutting
edge research, pushing 3D graphics, deep learning, machine learning, serious
analytics, security or things requiring multiple containers/VM. You will be
fine.

My laptop is a chromebook that I bought for a bit more than $100. I upgraded
the memory to 8gb. It still has 16gb SSD. Run linux on it too and use SD card
and google drive for storage.

~~~
sliken
Sadly chromebooks with upgradable ram are becoming quite rare.

------
quakenul
Acer Swift 3 for 550€/500$ on Amazon

I was looking for a really well built budget notebook, with good keyboard,
good screen and good battery life, low noise emission, while willing to
sacrifice performance. The Swift 3 fits the bill beautifully.

I got an i3, 4GB ram, 128GB ssd with 14 inch screen (basically the
SF314-51-30W6). There are different configurations available, if you are
looking for more cpu, gpu, ram, screen estate. I am not sure how they affect
any of the points above though

[https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/models/laptops/swift3](https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/models/laptops/swift3)

~~~
q-base
Really like the Mac inspired/copied design. How is the keyboard and trackpad?

------
franciscop
I got the Asus UX305CA with Ubuntu LTS a couple of years ago and I love it.
But without any more information I cannot recommend it, as it is perfect for
me but it might not be for others.

Pros:

\- Light and thin, perfect for carrying everyday.

\- Decent battery life.

\- 1080p IPS 13.3" screen, nice keyboard+touchpad.

\- No fans, no noise.

Cons (or not, highly dependends on your use case):

\- Keyboard is not backlit.

\- Underpowered.

~~~
beaylott
I got an Asus UX305FA 2 years ago. It was great until some of the keys on the
keyboard started to fail just outside of it's 1 year warranty. Despite having
tried to reset the ribbon connector on the mobo I can't get it to work. The
procedure for replacement isn't fun either.

Will probably get an Thinkpad X240/X250 off work next. They can often be
purchased second-hand on ebay with a few years of on-site warranty left.
Upgradeable, excellent keyboards, Linux friendly, and built like tanks.

~~~
hug
A word of warning: The 'clickpad' on the X240 is the most unpleasant piece of
computing hardware I have ever had the displeasure to use.

The clickpad has a ton of travel, and all of that travel is mushy. It
sometimes doesn't even register clicks, and right-clicking is an exercise in
frustration.

It was so bad I thought there was something defective about the version I had,
so I had it replaced, and it was the same horrible experience.

~~~
beaylott
Any better on X250?

~~~
rtcoms
Yes, lenovo brought back old trackpad after feedback from users. In x240
trackpad buttons are part of trackpad and that was the issue.X250 onward
buttons are separate from trackpad similar to models before x240.

------
dvh
I was considering $100 pinebook
([https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707](https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707))
but I haven't made my decision yet because what If I found out later that it
cannot do certain things (e.g. certain software only works on x86 or something
similar) then I would have to pay for real laptop e.g $200 while paying for
both ($100+$200).

------
comstock
If your backend dev, maybe the laptops I use (IBM x220s) would work for you? I
find they fly with Linux/an SSD. They're also pretty cheap (50 to 100USD). So
I buy a few at a time so I can leave one at the office etc.

~~~
mod
Where do you buy them? I can't find any for sale.

~~~
comstock
eBay, there are a bunch of sale.

A while back one seller was selling packs for 3 or 4 without HDDs/batteries
for around 50USD each.

------
RikNieu
I recently got a second-hand 2012 MacBook Pro for $340.

It's got 8g RAM, an upgraded 1TB SSD and 2.9 GHz Intel Core i7 CPU. That's
more than enough power for most programmers, probably for another 3 years.

Only downside is it doesn't have a retina display, but that doesn't bother me
too much.

------
anc84
Define budget...

Buy a refurbished or exhibition model, those are up to half-price for state of
the art devices with no or minor damage.

Also, it might be helpful to know which local market you are on. In Germany I
could point you to several stores.

~~~
lentil_soup
I'd be interested in German stores if you can provide the info :)

~~~
anc84
[http://lapstore.de/](http://lapstore.de/) (happy customer)

[https://www.nbwn.de/](https://www.nbwn.de/) (happy customer)

[https://www.heinzsoft-shop.de/](https://www.heinzsoft-shop.de/) (happy
customer)

[https://www.luxnote-hannover.de/](https://www.luxnote-hannover.de/)

[http://thinkspot.de/](http://thinkspot.de/)

[https://ok2.de/Gebrauchtgeraete:::42.html](https://ok2.de/Gebrauchtgeraete:::42.html)

------
madaxe_again
It depends.

If you are doing something that doesn't require a fast machine (I.e. server
side web development), then a late 90's/early 2000's laptop will do. I
currently cart around a '95 Toshiba satellite pro 440cdt to use in low
security areas, with the HDD swapped for a 2gb CF card. Linux, vim, nginx,
several backend stacks. I wouldn't care if it broke or was stolen (like anyone
would) - I can get another for £20.

If you need a machine for client side dev, then something from '05-'10 would
probably cut the mustard.

~~~
somecallitblues
What? You lug around a laptop from 95 and you're a web developer? And you
don't care if it gets stolen? You have to do a Reddit IAMA. Please.

~~~
mod
It's not that weird or even interesting. I could work on that machine, as
well.

Put briefly, I work in a terminal all day. Sometimes locally, but oftentimes I
ssh to a machine in the cloud.

Virtually any machine would work well for me. I do like nice machines still,
but I would give up a lot just to have a nice keyboard.

~~~
madaxe_again
Ditto. Without the HDD or optical drive it's fairly light, and the battery
lasts hours. Use a USB wifi dongle as needed. The keyboard and pointer nubbin
work great.

To be clear I also have an MBP, but I usually use the junker. The MBP gets
used for potatoshop and client side testing.

I also drive a '95 golf. Cost next to nothing to buy, parts laughably cheap.
£500 for a convertible that goes like stink? Yes please. I could buy any car I
wanted - but I prefer something cheap that I don't care too much about, that I
can readily service myself.

Also, it's far more environmentally friendly to use old stuff 'til it dies
than to buy new stuff.

Old doesn't mean bad - just old.

~~~
mod
I have a '96 Jeep with an inline 6. Also I didn't mention it, but at my (non-
tech) business, I still have a Toshiba Satellite running. I bought it used for
$50 like 7 years ago and we keep our books on it.

Guess we're soul-mates now.

------
lewisl9029
I was having trouble deciding on a laptop until just yesterday actually, when
I finally settled on getting Dell's new Inspiron 7000 Gaming.

For reference, here are the specs for the one I ordered:

\- i7-7700HQ

\- GTX 1060 (Max-Q version with slightly lower perf)

\- 16GB 2400MHz DDR4 (expandable up to 32GB)

\- 4K display ($150 upgrade from base)

\- 128GB SSD + 1TB HDD

\- Intel 8265 802.11ac WiFi (as opposed to the Killer crap that Dell uses on
their XPS line)

\- Thunderbolt 3 (with x4 PCIE lanes as opposed to x2 on their XPS lines)

For a fairly reasonable price of ~$1275 after tax, plus around $170 in the
form of cashback from Dell's reward program (I plan on getting a monitor from
them), with financing and 12 month deferred interest that's waived if paid in
full by then. I believe the deal is still available for those who might be
interested: [https://slickdeals.net/f/10568756-new-
inspiron-7000-gaming-1...](https://slickdeals.net/f/10568756-new-
inspiron-7000-gaming-15-6-fhd-ips-i7-7700hq-16gb-ddr4-128gb-ssd-1tb-hdd-
gtx-1060-thunderbolt3-win10-1035-student-discount-100-dell-
reward?src=rcm_category)

To be perfectly honest, the flashy gamer design and bulkiness were major
turnoffs for me, especially compared to their much more compact and
professional looking XPS line, but the much better specs/$ in the Inspiron and
several crippling deficiencies in the XPS 15 (namely the Killer Wireless card
and x2 lane Thunderbolt 3) made this win out in the end.

~~~
Raed667
Specs look interesting, however I fell for this a few years ago with a Lenovo
IdeaPad Z510.

Build quality is the keyword, after a few years the plastics starts falling
apart. Keyboard as well.

~~~
lewisl9029
This is definitely a point of concern for me as well, but after doing _a lot_
of searching on Reddit, I couldn't really find any systematic patterns of
failures popping up, and many of the reviews I've read actually commended the
build quality as one of the best among gaming laptops (low bar, I know). And
this is a fairly popular laptop that Dell has been refreshing in a similar
chassis for quite a few years now, so I'm hoping most of the obvious kinks
have been ironed out throughout the generations, and that it won't just
spontaneously fall apart on me.

------
feminist17
No laptop/borrowed only: $5-10 USB drive + per hour rate - just go to any
internet cafe and pay the usage rate or one of many US public libraries that
provide free computers.

Cloud-only, low-end, severely limited dev (if on extreme budget): $179
currently: [https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/samsung-
chromebook...](https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/samsung-chromebook-3)

non-Microsoft dev who doesn't like tinkering: $999+
[https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/](https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/)

Microsoft dev or tinkering Linux dev: $800+ XPS 13 still a good choice
[http://www.dell.com/en-
us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-13-9360-lapto...](http://www.dell.com/en-
us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-13-9360-laptop)

Security-focused dev: $1199+ Librem 13/15 [https://puri.sm/](https://puri.sm/)

Or: buy refurbished, but don't skimp on specs.

------
b3b0p
Every option has been mentioned. One note left out that might be important to
some depending is resale value. If you buy a PC (Dell, Asus, Thinkpad, etc),
the resale value is going to be substantially less after even a year. However,
with something like the Apple MacBook (Pro, Air, Nil), you can probably keep
it around a year, or even few and sell it for substantially more towards a new
one later, of course it will cost more to replace it with the equivalent later
on, so maybe it's not much a factor after all.

That said, I'd get what you need and start there. Do you need macOS? That
narrows your choices by a magnitude or so. I'd get a refurbished MacBook or
MacBook Pro from the Apple Store Online. If you want a PC every suggestion has
been made. It's only a matter of where you end up sourcing it from.

------
codegladiator
I have a lenovo yoga 260 and I love it. Not the commercial one (there are
multiple yoga series). One of the best keyboard I have used ( the one on MSI
was better ofcourse ), plus this has 512 ssd + 8 gig ram. never heats up, very
robust.

I wish there was no black boundary around the screen.

------
twovi
This was my setup for some time:

Chromebook [https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Chromebook-Wi-Fi-11-6-Inch-
Mo...](https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Chromebook-Wi-Fi-11-6-Inch-
Model/dp/B009LL9VDG)

Secure Shell [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/secure-
shell/pnhec...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/secure-
shell/pnhechapfaindjhompbnflcldabbghjo?hl=en)

DigitalOcean $5 droplet
[https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/](https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/)

Free GitHub account (swapped back and forth between bitbucket)

For editing, I just became really good at vim. Then, if I was feeling froggy:

[https://c9.io/](https://c9.io/), the free tier if needed.

So in the end, there was the initial cost $212 for the lappy (it's really
small and lightweight too, great lappy), then a $5 recurring charge for the
droplet that I would tunnel and own projects from there.

If you do think this path will be advantages, just be careful, get a simple
DNS (hover.com) record too, things change you might want to move to a
different provider.

Total Upfront cost: $222 + $5 + $20 doe DNS. Then recurring monthly is $5. The
recurring yearly $20 for DNS. The first Year you are looking at $55, not
including the upfront cost. Then the second year and going forward you are
$60/yr and $20/y

The super nice part of all of this. you can destroy your environment with a
vengeance, then start up a new droplet and things will be back to normal

This lappy did its job and is retirement with the significant other doing
bills and looking at Facebook. Somedays I still wonder if that lappy misses
the days of writing code till late in the morning on the back and only having
to run the charger cable once. I would like to think it does.

My personal note, stay out of the cool guy editors at first. Use a minimal
setup until you know exactly what you will be working on.

------
dagw
Used Thinkpad (T series or X series are probably the best bet) where you can
upgrade the RAM and put in a new SSD. The whole thing should only cost you
$400-500 at most depending on what SSD drive you buy.

------
PebblesHD
Depending on how far your budget will stretch, a refurbished ThinkPad from the
last three or four years is an excellent option under $400. If you were after
something a bit more powerful with some extra features, a 13" or 15" retina
MacBook Pro from 2013-14 can be had for under $1000, I'm currently using a
2013 retina 15" with a 512GB SSD that I got for $1100. I got mine as a display
unit from a major electronics retailer and then spent another $120 replacing
the batteries through Apple.

------
Jedd
Budget needs quantifying _and_ location ... or rather, access to / cost of
decent network. And the constraints of your chosen stack.

Depending on how you're actually developing, it may be reasonable and workable
to have a fairly basic laptop - large screen, pleasant-enough keyboard,
minimal CPU, memory, and battery - and throw your money at a decent headless
server sitting somewhere.

------
mat_jack1
I've found this website being really good for Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon:
[http://www.tier1online.com/refurbished-lenovo-
thinkpad-x1-ca...](http://www.tier1online.com/refurbished-lenovo-
thinkpad-x1-carbon/)

I haven't bought anything myself yet, but quality and price seem very
interesting to me.

------
Raed667
I'm going to use this thread as I'm in the same situation:

\- Budget 1000 euros

\- Work: Mostly front-end but also some Node/PHP/Java and IDEs

\- Location : France

~~~
dirktheman
A refurbished 13" MBP Retina should work just fine! I bought it new in 2012
and it's performing just as perfect as the day I bought it.

~~~
Raed667
Do you run any heavy IDEs on it? WebStorm? Eclipse etc? How does it handle
100x tabs in Chrome ?

~~~
dirktheman
No heavy IDEs here, but I am known as a prolific tabs opener. The internal
fans will spin up and the machine gets too hot to hold comfortably on your
lap. No issues with responsiveness or speed, though.

------
Faaak
I would say a second hand T420(s) T430(s) or equivalent. There are plenty of
them due to companies renewing their stock every once in a while. I got mine
(T430) for 300€ whereas it sold new for 1200+€.

I had a T420s before. It sadly died falling from a window. They are quite
sturdy laptops of professional grade.

EDIT: I'm talking about the Thinkpad brand

------
deafcalculus
MacBook Air - The keyboard is nice, and the trackpad is small enough that
accidental taps are a rarity. Screen is poor though. If you can get a macbook
pro 2015, that would be better. But the Air makes a decent budget laptop.

If you're into game dev, you'll need a Windows laptop. Macs are fine for
web/app dev.

~~~
kexari
+1 on the MacBook Air. I've got a 2014 model and use it daily for Swift iOS
dev. Fantastic size machine. Battery is great. Keyboard to die for. And it has
USB ports not USB C.

------
kexari
MacBook Air. Beautiful keyboard. Fantastic battery life. Screen isn't retina
but meh, good enough. I've got a 2014 model. I do iOS Swift dev. Still running
like a champ. If your doing web or backend work you'll be laughing.

------
jotjotzzz
If you're looking for compact and oh so light, I love my Macbook Air 11' inch
screen. Love it, love how light and powerful it is on the go -- and you can
connect it to a bigger monitor at home for a bigger screen.

------
emergie
I suggest thinkpad 13.

I got mine i5-7200/256G NVMe/16G DDR4/noOS for about 800€ nad i'm quite happy
with it. It's light, uses modern components, has decent keyboard and it's not
very expensive.

------
codeonfire
Cheap Dell, add 1TB ssd, max the ram and install Ubuntu. Toshibas are never
compatible, used lenovos have nasty shiny keys where the previous owner wore
off the plastic. MBP costs a fortune.

------
ngrishanov
I bought used MacBook Pro 13 2012 (~$600) + new SSD some time ago. Happy with
my choice so far, this machine can handle pretty much everything I need.

------
JoelSanchez
I bought an used Thinkpad T460 for 485€. Very happy with it. I was lucky to
find a cheap one that was also in a very good state.

------
crispytx
I use a $478 Xiaomi Mi Notebook Air 12.5 running Ubuntu. It's essentially a
MacBook Air clone for half the price.

------
darkhorn
Thinkpad E470?

~~~
tdvorak
My choice as well. I've just added one more 8GB RAM module and replaced OS
with Xubuntu. Happy java dev since then.

------
supratims
Go for a refurbished macbook pro 2011-12 ish version and you cant go wrong.

~~~
limeblack
There are known graphics card problems I have read.

