Ask HN: Why is it cheaper to buy a new laser printer than replace the cartridge? - 3stripe
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tedyoung
For laser printers (and ink jets as well), the cartridge you get with the new
printer often has a much lower print capacity than a new (separately
purchased) cartridge. For example, the printer will come with a cartridge that
can print 500 pages, whereas a new one would print 2,000.

But otherwise, yes, the printer itself is a loss-leader, just like the razor
industry.

~~~
AceStar
If new printers included a full capacity cartridge, it would create a loop-
hole where anybody could make money by buying new printers, discarding the
printer and reselling just the cartridge from it.

So they sell the new printers with half-full / reduced capacity cartridges to
prevent this situation.

Bottom line: don't buy a new printer when you run out of toner thinking you've
"beaten the system". You probably haven't.

~~~
stephenr
> If new printers included a full capacity cartridge, it would create a loop-
> hole where anybody could make money by buying new printers, discarding the
> printer and reselling just the cartridge from it.

If the printer included a full capacity cartridge, the price would certainly
be higher.

~~~
eb0la
I bet half-capacity cartridges are much more expensive to the business than
full capacity ones.

You need to produce a separate batch with different logistics and less volume
than ordinary cartridges. In some cases it will need even a different testing
line.

At least, you save packaging because you don't need to put then in a fancy
blister...

~~~
stephenr
Different quantities aren't limited to those sold with the printer.

My Canon can take regular or XL cartridges - the only difference is the volume
of ink inside.

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spoonie
Maybe because the printer is sold as a loss-leader, assuming you will buy a
certain number of ink cartridges. Furthermore they can make the printers very
cheaply because:

1) the fancy printing logic is mostly in the printing driver you install on
your computer

2) the fancy ink transfer hardware is all in the cartridge

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red0point
Is there any printer that represents the opposite of that statement? I
recently tried to find a cheap way to print stuff, but all I found were cheap
printers with expensive ink, even the ones designed for businesses, those even
more so.

Why is there no 'opensource' / 'ecofriendly' / ... printer that's expensive to
buy, but the ink is cheap & easy to replace?

~~~
maxerickson
Cheap laser printers work fine for black and white.

There are several ink jets with ink reservoirs instead of expensive cartridges
(Epson EcoTank is one I know off the top of my head).

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k__
I don't know why everyone has problems with their priting costs.

Got a Brother HL 2030 since 2006. Payed about 150€ back then. Printed
everything with it, including all stuff I needed to get my degree (projects,
script, thesis, etc) and all the private stuff I did. Only this year I
replaced the cartridge and drum for about 30€. Now it prints like on the first
day.

Best purchase ever.

~~~
maxerickson
The spiritual successor is the 2300 line. I'd pay the extra $20 to get
duplex+wireless and get the HL-L2340DW.

~~~
k__
If it had a scanner I would consider a switch, haha.

~~~
maxerickson
I have a HL-2170W and miss the duplex the 3 times a year I use it. I was
mostly letting people know that they more or less still make the same printer
(at least, as far as I know the new ones have not become crap).

The HL-L2340DW comes with a starter toner cartridge that is good for 700
pages, so it is not a terrible way to have convenient printing for a decade.

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j45
The cost of many cheap printers are back-loaded, meaning you will pay for the
printer many times over from incredibly overpriced ink. Printers often come
with starter ink cartridges to tip you quicker into starting your ongoing
payment to the printer company.

Buying a more expensive printer can often lower the cost per page before
looking at after market ink.

I read an article that said inkjet ink is one of the most expensive liquids in
the world.

How to get around it? Find a good color laser, or higher end inkjet that can
get aftermarket high capacity cartridges or toner to make the cost a fraction
of what it normally is. My current color laser gets me a set of 4 high yield
toners for $80 instead of over $400. I don't print much, but when I do, a
little bit of homework can go a long way.

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helen842000
The printer is the gateway into a recurring purchase so they are going to make
them as cheap as possible. Same as SIM cards are free to get you onto a phone
network.

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LarryMade2
A) Depends on how cheap you can get a new or re-manufactured cartridge...

B) How easy is it to install drivers for the new printer on your existing
hardware? (which can be a big factor if some of your hardware is multiple OS
generations old)

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raooll
This should help

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebie_marketing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebie_marketing)

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jotux
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader)

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3stripe
And shouldn't it be illegal to price products like this?

~~~
tedyoung
Why? It's not misleading advertising, so what would be the basis for it being
illegal?

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nopassrecover
Sustainability concerns?

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mattnumbe
It's too bad sustainability has nothing to do with legality.

~~~
nopassrecover
The original comment suggested that this should be illegal, and the reply, as
I interpreted it, asked on what grounds. I can see on reflection we're
discussing different issues (i.e. I've taken the comment trail as a normative
discussion, rather than a technical one).

Sustainability concerns seem like a valid ethical reason to create laws and
attempt to minimise things like this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12742974](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12742974)

~~~
mattnumbe
My comment can be read two ways: It's too bad sustainability has nothing to do
with legality, in the sense that it should be illegal to make products that
are extremely wasteful.

~~~
3stripe
And you hit the nail on the head in terms of what I was angling at :)

On a related note: [http://qz.com/811525/sweden-gives-its-fixer-citizens-tax-
bre...](http://qz.com/811525/sweden-gives-its-fixer-citizens-tax-breaks-for-
repairing-not-replacing-whats-broken/) -> "Sweden offering tax breaks to
citizens who repair, not replace, broken things"

