
Has Iceland Eliminated Down Syndrome Through Abortion? - nocoder
http://www.snopes.com/iceland-eliminated-syndrome-abortion/
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lettergram
I know when my wife and I found out we were having a baby. The first
appointment we had with a doctor (in the U.S.) was a screening for literally
anything we were at risk for.

We ended up telling some people we we're doing that and they freaked out (my
parents included). We really don't understand why everyone doesn't get these
tests. We're both Libertarians, but even agree the government should probably
offer these tests free to reduce the burden on society (as the test we did
cost around $250 - checking for downs).

More importantly though, we didn't understand why people freak out. The
sociatial pressures not to get test(s) like this done are insane. Even one (of
our several) doctors / nurses were trying to convince us from doing it... Sure
I understand some people think abortion can be bad, but isn't bringing a
troubled human being in the world just as bad (rhetorical question)?

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throwaway148
> but isn't bringing a troubled human being in the world just as bad

I am a person with a congenital disorder, Spina Bifida, and it's usually
recommended to do an abortion if such anomaly was discovered at the early
stages of pregnancy. But I can tell you that I'm glad my parents chose the
other way and I'm glad that I'm alive. Sure, life can be tough at times, but
can anyone really say that life is easy?

So I agree that there's no easy answer to that question.

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DiabloD3
So basically the apparently at least partially nonsense CBS report says, of
things that can actually be confirmed, "Iceland has less Down Syndrome babies
born", and then tries to tie it to abortion, and THEN tries to insinuate
abortion is morally wrong and then the Icelandic are bad people.

Wtf.

~~~
bennettfeely
This reply is nonsense. The reason nearly no babies are born with down
syndrome in Iceland is because their lives are ended before their born, the
abortion rate is nearly 100%. That's directly related to abortion.

The fact that many find eugenics to be morally wrong isn't nonsense either.

~~~
DiabloD3
It doesn't actually make the link between low Down Syndrome occurrences and
"oh, they aborted them all." It does say that they do abort many of them.

What I'm trying to say is, it does not discount a more natural link of better
healthcare and nutrition which may lead to less down syndrome pregnancies in
the first place, and zero discussion is given to this.

~~~
celticninja
Thats a very good point, although I believe downs syndrome is a genetic issue
rather than healthcare and nutrition issue. However the point remains that if
the incidence of downs is very low in the country, combined with an abortion
rate that is e.g on average for a European country then a case could be made
that abortion is not the driving factor for the low incidence of DS in the
general population.

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ramblerman
Do a lot of down syndrome children end up having children of their own?

Otherwise if down syndrome was spread by a single gene, it would have died out
pretty naturally on its own, right?

(disclaimer) I admittedly don't know much about genetics.

~~~
supercoder
It's not a genetic disease

~~~
nherment
Down syndrome IS a genetic disorder.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome)
[http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/down-
syndrome/...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/down-
syndrome/symptoms-causes/dxc-20337347)

~~~
docdeek
I think he/she was shooting for ‘inherited’ instead of genetic.

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geff82
When I was a child, I remember to regularly see other children with
disabilities. Recently, I figured that I see almost no children with real
mental/physical disabilities any more. Then it dawned upon me that they are
probably all "killed" before birth when the doctors detect their problem.
Can't tell exactly what I feel from a moral standpoint.

~~~
celticninja
Or perhaps you are no longer in an environment where you see them. Children
with disabilities still exist but do you frequent places where children in
general go? I see them often at theme/play parks, swimming pools and at my
childrens school. I don't see disabled children at the club's, bars I frequent
or in my workplace but I don't see non disabled children either.

Further we are better at catering for people with these disabilities and their
families. Some of the soft play areas I took my children to when they were
very young were often designed with autistic and disabled children primarily
in mind and we saw many families who would use the facilities with both
disabled and non disabled children, the only real difference was the age of
the children, disabled children tended to use the facilities for longer than
non disabled children e.g. by 4 or 5 years old my children were less
interested in sensory rooms whereas disabled (especially the most severely
disabled) children would use these rooms at 10 or 11 years of age (possibly
longer).

The test mentioned in the article is also available in the UK and the option
to terminate a pregnancy when is child has a significant health issue or
disability is also there.

~~~
geff82
I am a father myself in Frankfurt, Germany, where we have one of the highest
relative number of children compared to the rest of the (rather childless)
country.

~~~
celticninja
As someone else mentioned, we are also getting better at treating disabilities
in children through better healthcare and parental nutrition. Cerebral Palsy,
for example, can be congenital where something happens to the child in the
womb or acquired through brain injury as a child, both of these can be
prevented (or likelihood reduced significantly) with better medical care,
there is also genetic predisposition which cannot be prevented (currently) by
modern medicine. So it doesnt mean all children with cerebral palsy (and this
is a very apparent/visual disability) are being aborted, it may mean we are
better at preventing it occurring in the first place.

Spina bifada is prevented by ensuring that the mother has enough folic acid. I
have an uncle with Spina Bifada (he is in his late 60's now) but it is so
easily preventable in first world nations (folic acid is readily available as
a supplement) that it is likely due to better healthcare and not abortion.

There are so many other changes in healthcare attitudes such as knowing that
drinking alcohol/smoking while pregnant is not healthy and can impact on the
unborn child that we take for granted, but 50 years ago they prescribed
guinness to expectant mothers because of its supposed high iron content.

TO assume it is all down to aborting unhealthy children is to deny the
advances that we have made with modern healthcare.

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bennettfeely
No doubt in my mind, future generations will look back at this time of modern
day eugenics in horror.

~~~
celticninja
Aborting a child is a decision for the parents, some abortions occur because
the child has health issues sometimes because the parents are not in a
position to raise the child. It is not about eugenics but about the choice of
the parent/parents who will be responsible for the child. So no future
generations will not look back in horror because we allowed people to decide
whether they were ready to raise a child, future generations are likely to
look back and think "thankfully they allowed this to be an option" because we
are currently over-populating a planet with finite resources.

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mi100hael
If I wanted to read Snopes, I'd hang out on /r/politics.

