
Just say no to Ruby on Rails (or at least think about it) - plusbryan
http://blog.pairwise.com/2007/06/27/oh-god-dont-date-ruby-on-rails/
======
gleb
While Ruby and Rails are slow, the issue is overblown. There is at most an
order of magnitude difference between RoR and reasonable alternatives (php,
python, etc.), and realistacally the difference is closer to a factor of 3.
This might sound important, but there is bigger fish to fry when talking about
performance. All of the above are dead slow, 3-4 orders of magnitude slower
than optimal C implementation.

In a typical web app, HTTP optimization and doing O(1) queries rather O(n^2)
per page is where performance lies. You can develop web apps quickly these
days, and the code can be clean, but you end up going from Palo Alto to Menlo
Park through Paris. Sure, a supersonic plane can do that route quicker than a
handicapped turtle, but the trick is not going through Paris altogether. RoR
makes rewring the code to avoid the Paris trip easy, fast and resulting code
remains reasonably readable. And that's the holy grail.

Having said that, that 3x performance boost to RoR would sure be nice, and
would put more areas of our application into "Roundtrip through Paris OK"
category.

~~~
lupin_sansei
"In a typical web app, HTTP optimization and doing O(1) queries rather O(n^2)
per page is where performance lies"

Yes, I have found 99% of my speed increases from good database indexing and
using hashtables to store data you need more than once.

~~~
steve
Indeed, databases are real root of all performance problems. I rewrote a site
to use the database much less frequently (mostly just for the initial loading
and write operations) and I've been incredibly satisfied with the results.

------
Readmore
If you don't like Ruby no Rails don't use it. There doesn't have to be some
religious debate every time someone 'takes it for a spin'. Ruby on Rails makes
you more productive, end of story. (Edited to remove unnecessary flame. Sorry
about that, it's been a long week.)

~~~
aston
No need for personal attacks ("I don't think the authors rip off of hot or not
with pictures of kittens is really a good use case for scaling a popular
site." in case it disappears).

Also, I'll just point out that there is certainly a religion of RoR unlike
that of any other web framework. Thus, whenever someone makes disparaging
comments, some RoR fan takes serious offense. You seem like you were
personally offended, for example.

~~~
Readmore
I just get tired of everyone that writes a website becoming an authority on
all things Internet related. That said, my comment was off the cuff and I'll
retract it. I'm sorry if I hurt any feelings.

~~~
plusbryan
And I get tired of people with 6 months RoR under their belt proselytizing it
as the last word in programming languages. And in regards to the "omg you're
just like hot or not!" comment, um, yeah, sure. Keep thinking that. Good.

~~~
Readmore
Fair enough, but I've been using RoR for 2 years and it is amazingly useful.
It's a far better web programming environment than php or django. If you
didn't like it that's cool, I really don't care, but don't submit your
language bashing blog post to newsy. Also, it doesn't really matter if you're
a rip off of hot or not as a user that's the first thing I thought as I
clicked the back button away from your site.

~~~
jmzachary
Geezus, the guy is entitled to an opinion about a technology that he has used
to deploy a website. You must really care because you bothered to post some
dickish response.

------
aantix
So, the blogger is building a business for which conceivably he would like to
succeed and sell for millions and one of his gripes is that he doesn't want to
pay $26 for the Rails book?

Besides the fact that it is a great book and can answer 95% of your Rails
questions, I have a hard time taking him seriously with this statement. Can't
shell out $26 for a manual to the platform you are basing your business off
of?

What next? Are they hosting their site on Geocities?

~~~
Tichy
I also always gripe with Ruby's lack of documentation. It just doesn't feel
right. In comparison: I have never spent a dime on a Java book, in the 10
years that I have been using the language. On the other hand, I can't count
how often I have downloaded the various available online docs, for example
when I did consulting and used the clients computer. I also travel a lot,
which has hampered my progress in Ruby (that book is heavy, so it stayed home)
- OK, I should have bought the e-book, but still...

26$ is not a lot, but it is a lot if you are not sure if it is worth your
money, or if it will fulfill all your needs. Is that the only Ruby book you'll
ever need, or are more investments coming up (Rails book(s))? It's all about
risks, in a way. Why else use Open Source Software? With Java, I know my needs
are taken care of, and if I ever have a problem, I will find the answer for
free, and fast.

~~~
aantix
There are certainly enough examples out there that will get you up and running
with Rails and will at the very least allow you to make an appropriate
assessment as to whether it will improve your development productivity.

If you're at the point where you're thinking of buying the book my assumption
is that you're already passed the point of assessing Rails and are looking to
understand the more advanced functionality.

If you're at that point, $26 is nothing.

~~~
Tichy
I can afford 26$, but for a student it might be a lot of money. Just a
thought.

------
bootload
_"... And there's no documentation to the point of seeming intentional ..."_

Python documentation is on my continuous reading list & is one of the pluses
for python usage. But lack of it hasn't stopped Rails adoption. Why? Is it
that Rails is that simple to use (for experienced developers)?

~~~
mechanical_fish
There are several great Ruby and Rails books. The only "problem" is that many
of them cost more than $0.

Some programmers think that $50 is a lot of money, but that time is basically
free. Frankly, these people _deserve_ PHP.

------
zurla
my impression was that likebetter's troubles weren't really problems with
rails so much as problems with their hosting co, bandwidth, and maybe the
usual db scaling issues. correct me if I'm wrong, though.

------
cglee
I think titles like this post deserve a harsh response from Rails enthusiasts.
It's meant to provoke, so why complain when the provoked respond passionately?
If you so choose, you'll also find a lot of well thought out Rails posters (B.
Tate, S. Halloway, D. Thomas, etc).

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dallasrpi
ah more FUD about Rails, hardly original anymore. If you couldn't manage more
than one user you clearly don't know what your doing or were too lazy to try
to figure it out.

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chaostheory
to each his own. he has some valid arguments but isn't rewriting the case with
pretty much every language?

