
Government’s Use of Algorithm Serves Up False Fraud Charges - noizejoy
https://undark.org/2020/06/01/michigan-unemployment-fraud-algorithm/
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jariel
Is there no judicial process?

How can someone not take the gov. to court, show the judge the numbers, and
the judge put a hold on Midas?

And how is such massive fraud only highlighted on some random blog?

This is also quite a good example of illustrating how cable news is so
rigorously narrative-driven: their websites right now may have 10 links
relating to their 'favorite local story they chose to make a national story'
which plays into some kind of politics, instead of having references to more
nuanced things like this. But without some 'politician they don't like to
blame' it's hard to make into clickbait.

I believe these more 'operational' realities of governance are far more
impactful on our civilization than the more ideological things we argue about
all day. A highly functional and efficient bureaucracy makes political
arguments effete.

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Hokusai
> Michigan Integrated Data Automated System, or MiDAS

They should have listened to King Midas cautionary tale.

This kind of system will work better if it worked both ways. A system that
notifies you when you are eligible for unemployment and when you are not
eligible anymore. Instead it seems it only tries to identify fraud from
incomplete data.

I know that automatic taxing and other government automation is not
implemented because there are opposed lobbying efforts. But, the current state
is a waste of money and negatively affect USA citizens mental health.

If the USA wants to continue being competitive in the world economy it needs
to step down from its pedestal and work hard to improve its infrastructure,
digital and physical.

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dabeeeenster
Reminds me a little of this story: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
england-50747143](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50747143)

It's pretty insane.

~~~
goodcanadian
There is actually an update on that today:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52905378](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52905378)

~~~
ChrisMarshallNY
Much as we may decry the “lawyer disease,” when we read stories like these, we
have to conclude that the only recourse for some folks is a lawsuit.

It’s not helped by corporate PR efforts that gin up fervor about “frivolous”
lawsuits.

Like so: [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2016/12/16/13971482/...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2016/12/16/13971482/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit-stella-liebeck)

I’ve known a number of folks that have been involved in lawsuits with
considerable merit, and not one received anything even close to addressing the
damage they suffered; often after _years_ of bruising court battles.

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popotamonga
Ive been on the wrong end of an IRS automated and wrong 10k€ fine. Had to
spend 3k in court to get it back.

Automated justice was once thought to be the next great thing. I'm not so
sure.

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ChrisMarshallNY
I really feel as if software quality is at the heart of a lot of this.

I’m a bit despondent over the casual approach to quality exhibited by a lot of
corporations, and the stakes are getting higher.

I dread what will happen when the software controls even more critical
infrastructure.

The software is getting so complex that I can’t see how it can be effectively
tested. Meanwhile, the entire IT industry is on a wholesale mission to remove
experienced engineers, and replace them with outsourced talent, or people
right out of bootcamps.

In this case, the people affected were probably not the ones that would (or
could) raise a lot of hell. Also, some managers probably got bonuses or
raises, based on this.

It’s funny. I remember, many years ago, a story about errors in supermarket
pricing, and how pricing errors _invariably_ favored the supermarket. It was
determined that was because the supermarkets only considered it a problem if
_they_ had to pay.

I suspect this is similar.

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OldHand2018
> I’m a bit despondent over the casual approach to quality exhibited by a lot
> of corporations, and the stakes are getting higher.

I don't think that there is any evidence that the quality of the software was
low. The problem was the design of the system and the willingness of the
developers to implement it.

~~~
ChrisMarshallNY
Fair 'nuff, but I still have my feelings about it.

> The problem was the design of the system and the willingness of the
> developers to implement it.

I would consider the design of the system as a "quality" metric.

Usability, accessibility, training and support are all what I consider to be
important components of "quality."

We have a big problem (not just in our industry) of "Not mah job, man."

~~~
OldHand2018
Using your definition, I'd definitely agree that there is a big problem.

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ChrisMarshallNY
I have a "holistic" system approach. I believe that every system; whether
software, hardware, design, written materials, whatever, needs to be treated
as a "whole," and that "whole" often includes components that may not be
considered relevant to implementors.

Take, for, example, end-user documentation. That's often considered "not mah
job, man" by engineers; which is appropriate. It is not their job, –and, this
is important– if some knucklehead manager makes it their job, they are gonna
get a real turd sandwich for end-user documentation.

What needs to happen, is that the manager needs to hire a real tech writer
(not a repurposed administrator -unless they get lucky), and then supply that
writer with the tools and authority necessary to do a good job.

Stop me if you've heard this before.

A lot of startups don't have this luxury. Almost every person in the company
is wearing half a dozen hats. The CTO may be the main (sometimes, _only_ )
engineer. For whatever reason, they don't have headcount money for a tech
writer, so the CTO, who is, to be fair, an amazing and energetic engineer,
writes the user docs.

Unfortunately, she is also intimately familiar with the system, and has a very
advanced baseline. She does not approach the documentation with an eye towards
new users, coming in hot and two engines shot to hell. She assumes that they
are engineers of her caliber, and that they "of course" know the basics that
she glosses over.

So we have this marvelous system, that was produced by marvelous people, and
is presented to the user, wrapped in a turd sandwich.

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mjevans
In a quick skim I see the real problem is mentioned several times through the
article.

The system was designed to "save costs" by removing humans. Not by feeding the
humans a curated and highlighted set of cases to review for confirmation.

A proper system would hold for human review as well as have physical mail
confirmation sent to relevant addresses.

