
Ask HN: Most hacker friendly laptop on the market? - shekhar101
Hi fellow Hackers!
I am a grad student&#x2F;wannabe-enterprenuer&#x2F;hacker and I am really looking for advice in choosing a good work machine that would suit all three roles. Your advice is most welcome. I&#x27;ve been using company laptops and an old Dell Studio that worked well for last 7 years. Now I need one and the market is flooded with configurations and models. Maybe this discussion can help me and others in choosing something that is our livelihood :)
======
theonewolf
I'm using the new Dell XPS 13 Developer's Edition, without the touch screen.
I've found build quality to be a step up for Dell, but still a bit flimsy
especially around the cover of the monitor.

I like that it's pre-vetted hardware for running Ubuntu/Linux, has very long
battery life, and the screen is really a joy to look at.

It's a 13-inch screen crammed into an 11-inch laptop body, so you get a lot of
screen real-estated without the full bulkiness.

I also love the lightweight (close to MacBook light here), and the versatility
in connectors (a detractor for the MacBook line for me).

In addition, out of the box things like 5GHz ac wifi just works under Linux.

~~~
fbr
I would definitively recommend this one as well, the quality is very good.

Some downside with the Ubuntu version:

* the trackpad not deactivated when typing, that's a real pain, have you found a solution?

* the wake up after a suspension will sometimes generate some problems (no wifi etc..)

~~~
gitaarik
I got the trackpad being disabled when typing, see this discussion for
reference:

[https://github.com/advancingu/XPS13Linux/issues/3#issuecomme...](https://github.com/advancingu/XPS13Linux/issues/3#issuecomment-115431965)

I haven't had any real problems with waking up from suspension, it only takes
a little time sometimes. Disabling and re-enabling the WiFi should work
anyway, if you lost your WiFi connection.

------
bluehazed
Thinkpads. If you don't mind used and want something inexpensive and still
decent, the T420s/X220s are pretty cheap ($250-400USD depending on
configuration) and still very good machines.

Won't break (dropped mine on cement before and came back with just a few
scratches and a small dent in the metal) and they're reasonably fast.

~~~
Retr0spectrum
I am very happy with my X220. Decent battery life, great keyboard, and
performance that rivals even the very latest models in the same form-factor.
The only negative point for me is the screen resolution of only 1366x768.

Some people don't like the trackpoint, but I love it so much that I've
disabled the trackpad completely.

I honestly think that it's the best value laptop currently available.

~~~
basch
x01-x230 were all great. x201 with an ssd runs like a modern laptop. hated
that the x240 lacked trackpoint buttons. x250 doesnt have the texture of the
x230, x230 is probably my favorite, but x250 has a modern processor with
battery life.

------
anonyfox
Macbook pro retina, 13"/15" dependend on your pockets. You won't get the same
quality cheaper and the battery can easily last through the entire work day.
It's a productive environment, though, so if you really want to tinker with
the hardware pieces, this may not be the right choice for you.

~~~
_delirium
There are tradeoffs, but the 11" and 13" Macbook Airs are also worth
considering imo. I personally greatly prefer them, mainly for the lighter
weight and better battery life (also, they're cheaper). I especially like the
11". Downsides are slower CPU and lower-res screen.

~~~
cgriswald
The MBAs are nice for the battery life and especially the weight, but I find
the 11" is too small for me. I can't be productive with so little screen real
estate. Some of my peers really regretted getting the 11".

The 13" MBA I had was nice, but I ended up replacing it with a 15" MBP for the
power and higher resolution.

I originally replaced an insanely heavy 17" MBP with the 13" MBA, so the
weight of the 15" MBP doesn't really bother me even though I carry it around
everywhere.

~~~
_delirium
I thought screen-size might be an issue, but I've settled into a workflow of
mostly working inside a full-screened iTerm2, which I'm really enjoying. For
that it's plenty big; with the font size I use, you can fit two 95-char editor
windows side by side (or an editor window and a prompt, etc.). Obviously that
particular work style won't suit everyone though.

The weight difference between my old 13" MBP (4.5 lbs) and the 11" MBA (2.4
lbs) is big enough to make a difference for me since I constantly have it
slung over my shoulder. It looks like they've since lightened the 13" MBP to
3.5 lbs, though, so it's not as big a difference now.

------
rayiner
Life is too short not to buy a Mac. I have an rMBP 15" and its awesome. After
years of using Macs, I got a ThinkPad T450s because of the keyboard. It's now
sitting on a shelf while I set it up for my dad.

It's _okay_. The screen is okay, pretty bad backlight bleed.[1] It's got a
weird memory configuration--you can run dual channel only up to 8GB. The
keyboard is fantastic, but the touchpad is awful. [2] Apple's touchpad is
unmatched, and induces less cramping than the trackpoint.

Windows is getting better. I think Windows 10 is pretty good. But its not
better than OS X, and Visual Studio is the only Windows app I miss. Even
Office 2016 is just as good on the Mac (unless you have particular Excel-
related needs). Retina support is still far better in OS X, and its 2015 and a
non-retina screen isn't acceptable any more.

[1] I got the AUO screen, I hear the LG is better, but that's one thing you
risk on the PC side--everyone has less tight sourcing tolerances than Apple.

[2] The touchpad on my work-issued T430 is better. That's another fact of PC-
life: Its pretty much a crapshot whether the next iteration of any given model
will have major regressions in trackpad quality or battery life or screen
quality. PC manufacturers just don't care--they'll source whatever part is
cheapest.

~~~
sz4kerto
> Life is too short not to buy a Mac.

Yeah, except when scrolling a website on a EUR2500 rMBP stutters. (That was
one reason mine is sitting on the shelf.) And the charging cable breaks. The
Macbook charging cable of the 27" Cinema Display also breaks, and it is built
into the display so you can't just buy another one for $5. And it's nice and
thin but now when it's 30 degrees in my room (I hate aircons and there's
almost 40 outside) GPU and GPU both run over 90 Celsius even only 1 from the 4
CPU core is in use and fans are running at maximum. When an external display
is connected the case above the top keyboard row is so hot that it burns my
fingers.

I fully see the advantages of a Mac for development (for me that was mostly
the *nix part of the system, i.e. the console), but it's not just roses. :)

------
sz4kerto
Some stuff to remember:

\- thinness does not matter that much. If you want your stuff to look cool,
then it does, but for portability it doesn't. \- thinness affects cooling. You
don't want your battery get ruined, your CPU throttled and your lap burned. \-
expandability matters on the long run

I just replaced my 2013 rMBP. I needed the following: \- expandable storage --
I can put 3 SSDs in this

\- expandable memory - 4 DIMM slots, up to 64G RAM

\- dockable

\- trackpoint

\- can drive UHD screens @ 60 Hz

\- as Linux friendly as possible

\- good keyboard

\- good cooling

\- IPS screen, min. fHD

I ended up buying the HP Zbook 15 G2. The only issue with that is UDH external
screens and Linux-friendliness don't go together, because those displays
require discrete GPU (Broadwells can drive UHD screens through MST, but most
displays don't support that). The other alternative was the Thinkpad W550s,
but I could get the G2 at half the price (and it's much more powerful).

I didn't buy:

\- smaller devices because I'm working on this 10 hours a day sometimes, and
portability itself wasn't enough to compensate for less power, less memory,
worse cooling \- Thinkpad .40 series because of their clickpads

\- Dell Precisions because they're extremely bulky and HPs have better
keyboard

\- Macbooks because OSX was not an option for me after using it for 2.5 years,
also they don't have a trackpoint and their cooling is really abysmal

\- anything from smaller vendors like System76, etc. because they all use OEM
chassis and they're a far cry from top-end HP, Dell, Lenovo and Apple chassis

I personally don't understand how could anyone recommend a 11" MBA to someone
who wants to do serious work on it. A 11" screen is extremely uncomfortable
for all-day coding; if you keep it docked all day then might make sense
though.

~~~
kaolinite
I'm surprised you say that thinness doesn't matter for portability. I couldn't
imagine going back to my previous ThinkPad (currently using a 13" Macbook Air)
- it would take up so much space in my bag. Remember that by thinning a
laptop, you also make it lighter too.

~~~
dottrap
I personally think weight matters, but not thinness. I used to use a 12"
Powerbook. I now use a 11" Macbook Air. I still use the same bag to carry it
around. Being thinner didn't win me anything. However, being lighter is a
definite win.

Hypothetically, if I could get the same laptop that is thicker, but cheaper,
but is the same weight and has full sized ports for things like ethernet (or
ports that were removed like SD cards, firewire, etc) instead of requiring
dongles and attachments, I would get the thicker one.

(A coworker bought a 15" Powerbook the same time I got my 12". We went to a
conference and were lugging our laptops all day for a week. The weight
difference took its toll on my coworker by the end of the week.)

------
Daneel_
The number of people recommending MacBooks makes me cringe a little. Sure the
build quality is good, but I can't live with the keyboard's crippling lack of
keys and the need to constantly use the mouse in OSX. Lenovo isn't fairing
much better these days - I have a T440p, and the lack of the 'menu' key
(between right-alt and right-ctrl) drives me nuts. The lack of
Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Delete on the Mac also drives me crazy.

For those of us who live on the keyboard and hate to touch the mouse (too slow
and inefficient), these days are dark times..

Also: why aren't we seeing >16 GB of ram in laptops yet? I realise workstation
laptops are at 32, and possibly 64 GB now, but why are some brands going
backwards from 16GB down to 12 and even 8?

As for my recommendation? There isn't a single laptop on the market that I
like, I'm sad to say. Lenovo dropped the ball, and dell's build quality isn't
up to par. I'd look at an HP workstation, or maybe one of the Lenovo W541's,
although the keyboard isn't much better than on a MacBook.

The Chromebook Pixel 2 (the top spec one) is such a tantalising glimpse of
what could be - just shoehorn in more hard drive space, add a mini-DP port and
an RJ-45, and most people would be good to go...if they fixed the keyboard.

Sorry for the rant! Just overly frustrated with the state of the market..
Won't someone just release a standard workstation laptop without following all
the keyboard/mouse trends?!?

~~~
cjoelrun
Have you tried to make OS X keyboard friendly? Window Management - Spectacle:
[http://spectacleapp.com](http://spectacleapp.com), App Launcher -
Quicksilver: [http://qsapp.com](http://qsapp.com), also just learning each
app's keybindings as I incorporate them into work.

OS X also has some of the best text manipulation in apps:
[https://coderwall.com/p/usc8qg/use-emacs-readline-key-
bindin...](https://coderwall.com/p/usc8qg/use-emacs-readline-key-bindings-in-
os-x). As a Emacs/Bash user, I haven't found anything as consistent, even in
Linux.

For your missing keys Home = Cmd + Up, End = Cmd + Down, PgUp = Shift + Space,
PgDn = Space, Delete = control + d

~~~
Daneel_
Thanks for the good advice. Yes, I've tried most of these (spectacle is new to
me though), but I've found that shortcuts aren't very consistent between apps,
plus there's no shortcuts for manipulating windows; eg, [alt+space, x] for
maximize. Maximising windows is a whole other problem (rightzoom mostly fixes
this.. mostly). It's little workflow issues like that which put me off OSX. I
used it for work for three months before I couldn't take it any more, despite
learning a lot of shortcuts and 'fixer' apps in the mean time.

These days, I like windows as my main OS, with a linux VM for real work.

~~~
rsmith05
There's nothing wrong with your setup. I personally just got a Macbook Pro 13
inch because I wanted to become familiar with the Apple ecosystem, coming from
mainly Windows and Linux worlds.

I can honestly say given a couple of weeks, I could be productive on any of
the platforms. But it just comes down to preference here.

The issues you mention for manipulating windows - that is "fixed" by
installing a Window Manager such as one of the following (some free, some
paid);

Free:

Spectacle [http://spectacleapp.com/](http://spectacleapp.com/)

Paid:

Divvy [http://mizage.com/divvy/](http://mizage.com/divvy/)

BetterSnapTool
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bettersnaptool/id417375580?m...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bettersnaptool/id417375580?mt=12)

=====

It sounds like you gave it a fair shot though, which is fine. Use whatever you
are most productive in :)

------
001spartan
I'm an infosec guy, and I use a 13" retina MacBook Pro. Unfortunately my work
laptop is different, but for outside of work (security is my hobby as well as
my work), the MacBook does exactly what I need. Long battery life, great build
quality, and the screen is amazing for reading a lot.

I'm not a fan of Apple, but when I was looking through my options while
shopping for a new laptop recently, there was nothing else that seemed like it
wasn't a compromise for the same price.

------
walterbell
Purism is building crowdfunded laptops (13", 15") based on user feedback on
features (e.g. VT-d and TPM to support Qubes) and privacy (hardware switches
for camera, wireless and microphone). Where feasible, components are used
which support libre drivers and firmware.

[https://puri.sm/](https://puri.sm/)

~~~
veddox
Note the current HN discussion on Purism:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912034](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912034)

(It's not all favourable...)

------
dottrap
I also recommend a Macbook (Air or Pro depending on how much dev).

Most students these days seem to be using Apple products, laptops or iPads.
This makes it easy to deal with your University's IT department if/when they
make you do special things to get access to their networks. (I remember the
days when only Windows was supported and getting Mac/Linux to work with campus
networks and services was a huge ordeal.)

As an entrepreneur, a lot of tech companies are mobile focused which means iOS
is in the mix. To do any native development requires a Mac. And to do
pitching/presentations, Macs are very nice for creating and presenting that
type of stuff. (Guy Kawasaki has warned Windows users to expect to lose 20
minutes setting up your PowerPoint display for a pitch.) Additionally, VCs
tend to use iPhones and iPads now...your Mac data will usually interoperate
better.

For hacking, again, if mobile is a concern, Mac is the only platform that lets
you do both iOS and Android. The Unix heritage on Mac makes dealing with the
harder areas of Android development easier than on Windows (Linux is okay).

If you are doing heavy development, then a Macbook Pro is probably better. If
you are doing light development, Air is fine. With Xcode, RAM is more
important than CPU. So max out the RAM on any Air. (I don't know if the 12"
Macbook will have enough RAM where you will be happy with Xcode.)

------
nextos
If you don't mind waiting a bit, the ThinkPad "Retro" is quite promising. We
might get a good ThinkPad with modern hardware:
[http://www.zdnet.com/article/a-retro-thinkpad-classic-
could-...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/a-retro-thinkpad-classic-could-be-a-
killer-laptop-not-crippled-by-insane-thinness/)

The company is even asking customers and thinking about backtracking to old
designs. It's wise decision. I thought I would never see this, especially
after introducing island-style keyboards and the Superfish fiasco:
[http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/87869/Survey2/nc/](http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/87869/Survey2/nc/)

If you are in a hurry, I would recommend getting a x220 and then waiting to
see what we get. The x220 was really good, except for a horrible trackpad and
a slightly noisy fan.

------
userbinator
If you mean "hacker friendly" as in completely free/libre software, one of
these would probably be ideal:

[http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/product/libreboot-x200/](http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/product/libreboot-x200/)

The older X60 is slower but also similar, and Thinkpads (before Lenovo bought
them) are very robust hardware-wise.

~~~
pconner
No one can definitively tell what OP means with "hacker friendly." I think
it's time to retire that word

------
sureshn
I initially used a think pad (T61p) with ubuntu installed on it, subsequently
moved to the chromebook but finally settled for a macbook pro late 2014 , its
the best undoubtedly . look at craigslist in your area for a re-sale one in
case your budget is a bit constrained.

------
davesmylie
If you just want to get shit done, I recommend a macbook air 13" (or pro if
you can afford it).

Shit will just work (mostly), updates won't (generally) break things and you
can just do work.

When I was younger with more free time, I would have recommended a Lenovo or a
Thinkpad running some variant of debian and happily messed around making
things work how I want. Now I'm contracting and every hour I spend trying to
make my computer work is an hour I can't bill - I find my tolerance for down-
time is pretty much zero

------
megaman22
My hands are too big to type on anything smaller than a 15" laptop. 17" would
be better, so you actually have some screen real-estate to work with, if your
intent is to do actual work on it. Ideally something with an aluminum case,
since the screen hinges on plastic case models wear out so quickly. Something
that has accessible panels for upgrading/replacing RAM and hard-disks, without
having to completely disassemble the case. Something with a standard keyboard
layout, with real F1-F12 function keys, and a full numpad on the right.

Get a cheap wireless/bluetooth mouse that takes AA batteries and turn off the
trackpad.

If carrying around a 5 lb laptop is an issue, you might want to go to the gym
a little more often ;-)

Unless you have to do iOS work and need to have XCode, I wouldn't pay the 300%
Apple tax. There should be something offered by Acer or Asus for $500-600 that
would fit your needs. Get the cheapest one that has a decent processor/GPU
(don't worry about the HD or memory, as long as the motherboard supports at
least 8GB DDR3). Throw an SSD and some decent memory sticks in it, and install
a clean version of Windows, without all the bloatware, or your favorite flavor
of Linux.

~~~
johnny22
weight matters if you're trying to travel light, not just for carrying around.

------
Smushman
I hate to redirect a question by someone else, but I also am looking.

Would really like to see Ubuntu AND Kali Linux laptop that supports these
requests:

A decently high resolution screen (minimum of 1280x1024) wifi hacking capable
(hardware that will work natively with Kali) Faster than ARM - for processing
reasonable password hashing (not 3d GPU level) and running VM's of Windows

Thanks all including original poster.

~~~
pconner
The word "hacker" is completely meaningless now. Based on OP's intro
("wannabe-entrepreneur") , I don't think it means "penetration tester" in this
context.

------
Damogran6
I'll vote for (yet) another Mac. I bought a retina 15 with my accrued leave
when I left my last job and my current job bought me another. Neither, with
varying workloads and duty cycles has ever left me wanting. My hackerness
leans more toward cloud instances and microcontroller/raspberry Pi hardware,
which the Mac works with just niftily. I _did_ have an issue with finding a
usb/serial/terminal solution to talk to the console on a Palo Alto Firewall,
but a second machine was easy enough to borrow while performing the initial
config.

(Yeah, I'm a console gamer...while 'games' is the historical achilles heel of
the mac, I've not had any problems with the types of games I play
(Bioshock/Portal))

------
segmondy
Whatever laptop a hacker can get his hands on, is a hacker's laptop. and a
friendly one is one that is easily upgradeable, like x86. Get a reasonable x86
laptop. In my opinion, something with an 8gb, 500gbs i5 equivalent should be
more than sufficient.

------
mrdrozdov
Mac laptops are definitely the go to in the startup world. If you're using it
for work and you plan on doing programming, this will make that transition
much easier. Biggest perk? They have a unix operating system.

For things that are linux specific, you can always use a VM through Vagrant
(there's few practical reasons you'd need a Linux GUI).

If you truly want a "Hacker" laptop, then what you actually want is the
Novena. :D [https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-
kosagi/novena](https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena)

------
kephra
> a good work machine that would suit all three roles

You need a server that is hosted in the internet, a desktop system with a good
mouse and keyboard, and two or more screens, and a laptop that is portable and
cheap.

I really can not see, how to combine those 3 different roles, into one
machine, as those roles have different locations: Server room, desktop and
shoulder bag.

For laptop the only requirements are: max 2lbs as one has to carry it, maximum
$300 as a laptop can be damaged or stolen easy, and it must run 100% free
software without binary blobs, when it comes to wifi and graphics.

------
feedjoelpie
MacBook 13 or 15 retina. A great 13" for software development can be had for
~$1200.

Why Mac:

* It's Unix-like.

* Homebrew is fantastic for OSS package management.

* It's ubiquitous. (Yeah you could use Arch Linux instead of a Mac with Homebrew, but Homebrew will always get updates first.)

* Great battery life. (Linux often sucks at this.)

Why Retina:

* Text is extremely clear. It may seem like nothing before you've used it for a while, but you'll never go back.

* More real estate for side-by-side viewing of whatever you need.

* The Retina MBPs are actually quite light, enough so that I don't have MacBook Air envy ever.

------
replete
The Macbook Air 11/13" is a solid solid workhorse. You don't necessarily need
the extra power that MBPs offer.

My 2012 MBA is still perfect today.

Two things to note: 1) Max out the RAM and CPU 2) The 2015 13" MacbookAir has
much faster PCIE storage for some reason

In addition to this, I sometimes remote desktop into a £500 Windows Laptop
(80% as fast as TOP-end unreleased Broadwell) from pcspecialist.co.uk with an
i7-4810mq processor). Also has nvidia 860M graphics!

15" MacbookPro with old graphics for £2500 is outrageous.

------
Gustomaximus
I just bought a ASUS 303LN. Was tossing this up vs the Dell XPS 13 and Mac
Book Air. Seems a fairly good machine for a reasonable price point. If getting
make sure you get the 5th gen processor as some places still sell with the
4th.

[http://www.ultrabookreview.com/4274-asus-zenbook-ux303ln-
rev...](http://www.ultrabookreview.com/4274-asus-zenbook-ux303ln-review/)

------
billconan
I think macbook is the best if you don't want to use linux. I had some issues
with it using linux. I also purchased lenovo x1 carbon, but I don't like it I
tell you. the build quality is kinda low. I also heard some good things about
dell xps 13. but I also saw compatibility complains.

------
Justen
I've been using a Thinkpad X1 Carbon (3rd gen) with ubuntu on dual boot no
problem. It's pretty thin like that other brand, and has good battery life in
both OS, like 6-9hrs depending on use. Visual studio and netflix? 6hrs. Coding
in a text editor: 8-10.

------
SunShiranui
I use an Asus N550JK. It's got good performance and handles Linux well, except
for Optimus support which is still not great.

I used to own a MacBook Pro, but had bad experiences with hardware failures
and Apple sweeping such defects under the rug for as long as possible.

------
SeeThruHead
I've got a macbook pro 15 retina and the new Macbook. Would recommend either.
Though you might want to offload heavy workloads to a droplet/linode if you go
for the new Macbook.

------
shiggerino
If freedom is an issue, ThinkPad X60 would be the only viable option. If not,
a high end MacBook or ThinkPad depending on what you like.

------
allard
The market is flooded — just buy any brand with a reputable repair rate at a
price that fits.

------
radusw
dell xps 9333 with ubuntu

------
WorldWideWayne
I love my Surface Pro 3. It's better than anything. Sure, you can buy a Mac -
but then you have to use OS X :(

