
Show HN: Time.Graphics – flexible timeline - Jenkam
https://time.graphics
======
brudgers
[random advice from the internet]

I think the idea is interesting and the execution seems well done. Because, I
don't want to log in with Facebook to save, I can't see the end result and
ultimately have no idea whether or not it is actually any good. So I will
probably never use it, and almost certainly never recommend it (since I have
no idea if at the end of the road Time.graphics is actually any good.

From a business standpoint:

    
    
      What is the business value of a visitor's Facebook login?
      
      What is the business value of providing accurate 
      knowledge of the *final* product to a visitor?
    
      What business problem does obtaining a visitor's Facebook 
      login directly solve right now, here in the context
      of a 'Show HN'?
    

Years ago I tried selling software and my strategy was simple. I made a free
demo version that showed what could be done and provided a lousy high level
functional experience (i.e. it could not be used for actual work) so that
people would buy it. I don't think people tend to buy software that leaves
them with a bad taste in their mouth. I don't think time spent building
tooling that makes the demo lousy is time well spent.

At any size it makes sense to understand potential users. At a certain size it
probably makes sense to use Facebook as a tool to aggregate data. When there
are only a couple of hundred or ten or one, then it is better view them
individually. Ask them, "Am I solving your problem?"

Good luck.

~~~
fiatjaf
There's an email + password login right below the Facebook login.

But yes, a demo seems like a good idea, if it is not too hard.

~~~
brudgers
Providing an email address is not part of _my_ 'timeline problem' I am trying
to solve. Not providing an email address (or Facebook login) _is_ part of
another problem that I have been trying to solve for years.

That's not to say that providing an email address or a Facebook login is
always too high a price. But here there is no significant benefit to providing
it and a reasonable probability of detriment based on my experience. Going
further, there is no _functional_ reason for requiring a login. Because the
login sits in front of _all_ the value on my end and there's not really
anything good that can come from providing that information, I am inclined to
assign a higher probability to their being a bad outcome.

To be clear, I am writing all this in the context of providing "Show HN"
feedback. The login seems like clicking a checkbox on the checklist of
"startup best practices" sitting in Github repository. Collecting emails and
Facebook logins is easier than _listening_ to users. Emails and Facebook
provide ways of telling rather than listening.

~~~
fiatjaf
I think I understand what you're saying, but have you considered that user
accounts exist not only for putting email addresses in a mailing list?

Anyway, what would you suggest?

~~~
brudgers
My suggestion is to ignore login until there is a functional reason. Today,
people landing on the page is pure gold. The important functional information
is how they use the product.

Sure, user accounts can exist for many reasons. Right now, there is no
evidence that

    
    
      for this site
      right now
     

the reasons are for my benefit. That's not to say in the wider world there are
not people who would benefit from persistent identity in regard to a timeline
making site. It is even possible that I might benefit from establishing a
persistent identity, but there's no statement of a value proposition as to why
nor do the possible reasons seem more likely than the idea that persistent
identity is not for my benefit, and hence Occam's razor.

Perhaps the reason is to use Facebook/email is to build Hacker News for
timelines. Great, that's functional..once there is a social space, not now. If
the login is to pitch an investor by showing uniques traction, it's non-
functional.

~~~
Jenkam
You can create a timeline without log it but if you want to save it, so..

~~~
brudgers
What I am most likely to want is just a gif/png/jpeg/svg that I can use
elsewhere. I mean it looks like a great tool for creating timelines, but
creating timelines doesn't seem like an end in itself.

~~~
fiatjaf
Go build your own timeline creator.

~~~
detaro
How about we let people leave (friendly phrased) feedback, even if you
disagree with it? The project creator is free to think about it what they want
and ignore it if it doesn't match their plans, they don't need you telling
people to go away.

------
perilunar
Nice work!

I've been looking for a good timeline script for a project I'm doing. I'm
currently using vis.js [1], but this looks good also.

Is the script available for use via an API, or do you only offer iframe
embeds?

1\.
[http://visjs.org/timeline_examples.html](http://visjs.org/timeline_examples.html)

~~~
Jenkam
What kind of API do you want?

~~~
perilunar
Well, instead of embedding an already built timeline in my site via an iframe,
I want to be able to add a script to my page and build/modify the timeline
dynamically (e.g. creating events from a database).

Different use case. It's cool if it's not what you are interested in building.
Visjs does that already so there may not be a market for it.

~~~
Jenkam
It is not our model. But if you ready pay for this, we will think about it.

------
mtmail
Small issue: On my 27" monitor full-screen the hamburger menu is shown on the
top right, thus hiding the links to the excellent
[https://time.graphics/popular/](https://time.graphics/popular/) for example.
Tested in Firefox and Google Chrome.

~~~
Jenkam
We will check this asap, thank you.

------
fiatjaf
It says it downloads stuff (JSON, CSV etc). If I want it to render a chart
with some data generated in a server, would that be possible? I don't see how.

~~~
Jenkam
Yes. You can display any statistic information from you website or database by
implementing api: You data should look like (per row):

date, value ... ...

------
fiatjaf
I have no words for how amazing this is.

Also, "percentage" is written with a C.

~~~
Jenkam
Thanks. Okay, we gonna fix it this week.

