
Echo Frames – Eyeglasses with Alexa - Zaheer
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G62GWS4/ref=ods_gw_fnn_xpl_dt_atf_shov_zr_en_0925?pf_rd_p=d1850fba-bf7a-4b5c-8952-f505fad79e33&pf_rd_r=CE25W7EX405HCV5BKXA5
======
Someone1234
What's the value proposition relative to the alternatives?

It is adding weight, complexity, and limiting choice to your eye-wear while
effectively doing a similar thing to half a dozen wireless earbuds already on
the market. It isn't really comparable to Google Glass, because Google Glass
used projection onto the glasses themselves (creating a unique value).

Plus Amazon are trying to integrate with the US's predominant eye wear
monopoly (via insurance/out-of-network frames) instead of just bypassing it
and producing the lenses themselves. So you're paying $179.99 for empty frames
and then untold amounts for the actual lenses, and trying to ingrate with an
insurance system that's designed to benefit only Luxottica (via their
stranglehold of both insurance companies AND lens producers).

~~~
echelon
> US's predominant eye wear monopoly (via insurance/out-of-network frames)

> an insurance system that's designed to benefit only Luxottica (via their
> stranglehold of both insurance companies AND lens producers).

How is this a thing? Couldn't a startup come in and trounce them by offering
$10 frames and lenses? The optics aren't that complicated, and frames are...
plastic?

~~~
monkeypizza
Zenni, eyebuydirect, goggle4u are all in this space and provide cheaper
glasses. It seems like new ones keep starting, then slowly raise prices,
leaving a gap for a new minimum cost provider.

Eyeglasses are an interesting example of a market failure - customers have
been paying 10x the actual price for an important item, for 20+ years, and the
market hasn't fixed it.

In Beijing I used to just head down to Panjiayuan Zhaojia Glasses City and get
pairs for ~15 bucks. Rest your head on a machine that reads your prescription,
pick out frames, bargain, 30 minutes later you have your glasses.

In the US glasses are medicalized, which hides the reality that glasses are
really cheap and simple to make; for people without money this causes real
harm.

~~~
streetcat1
I think that the same is true for hearing aids.

~~~
adrianN
Hearing aids are actually quite complicated little machines compared to a pair
of lenses.

------
losteric
> Now you can hear notifications and alerts, turn on compatible smart lights,
> or call a friend, all without pulling out your phone. They’re designed to
> keep you in the moment—so you never miss one.

wow, I just had to laugh at this marketing-speak... "designed to keep you in
the moment with even more distractions"

~~~
allenu
My regular glasses already keep me in the moment by forcing me to toggle a
light switch with my finger. This marketing is such nonsense. They're really
reaching to find some utility in something that provides very little.

~~~
trenning
Amazon has invested billions into the Alexa platform. It's staggering how many
people work in the Alexa org.

Now they have to try and make some money from all this investment because
nobody is replacing their echo every year. They've basically become a parody
of themselves trying to dig themselves out of an 'AI' platform that never
materialized into much more than hands free timer and audio player.

Their way to turn a profit is to shove it into every consumer device they can
before consumers realize they don't need 15 different devices to turn on the
lights.

~~~
Analemma_
It must drive Amazon and Apple crazy that each has what the other needs.
Amazon has a voice assistant that works perfectly, but doesn't have a device
ecosystem so it can't have access to any of the data it needs to be truly
useful (your calendar, email, etc.). Apple has the device ecosystem, but Siri
is hot garbage. It's an interesting dilemma.

------
pdkl95
>> Gargoyles represent the embarrassing side of the Central Intelligence
Corporation. Instead of using laptops, they wear their computers on their
bodies, broken up into separate modules that hang on the waist, on the back,
on the headset. They serve as human surveillance devices, recording everything
that happens around them. Nothing looks stupider, these getups are the modern-
day equivalent of the slide-rule scabbard or the calculator pouch on the belt,
marking the user as belonging to a class that is at once above and far below
human society. [...] The payoff for this self-imposed ostracism is that you
can be in the Metaverse all the time, and gather intelligence all the time.

~sigh~

 _Snow Crash_ \- like _1984_ \- was a warning, not a manual for building the
future.

> Echo Frames are designed to protect your privacy.

That page is careful to always say "protect _your_ privacy". The privacy of
everyone else in range of the microphone apparently isn't even worth
mentioning. That responsibility is implicitly (and silently) pushed onto the
user.

~~~
XorNot
I mean that's true of the phone in your pocket today, what's your point?

~~~
pdkl95
The only phone I own[1] doesn't fit in my pocket. Yes, modern "smart" phones
have similar problems, but this thread is about Amazon's new eyeglass-style
microphone+speaker.

[1] [https://www.cdw.com/product/att-trimline-210-corded-
phone/30...](https://www.cdw.com/product/att-trimline-210-corded-
phone/3043715)

------
ProfessorLayton
Regardless of the value proposition of this product, can we take a moment to
appreciate that these glasses have way more going on in them while also
costing about the same as luxottica frames?

What a racket

~~~
j88439h84
They are a loss leader. Luxottica isn't taking your data or embedding you into
an ecosystem of products.

~~~
onion2k
I doubt Amazon make much profit on the hardware, but they probably don't make
a loss. Luxottica just make a _ludicrous_ profit on glasses.

------
dEnigma
I don't understand why it has to be glasses, when the important bit is just a
microphone and speaker, and there is no display capability. Would something
like AirPods work just as well? According to the website the glasses are
light-weight, so they can't hide huge amounts of battery-storage in them
either (unless they're not being entirely truthful).

edit: Okay, I just saw that they have Echo Buds too. So I guess this is only
for people who already wear glasses, or prefer them for some reason.

~~~
derision
They just announced Echo Buds as well, which is exactly that
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F6VM1S3/ref=ods_gw_fnn_xpl_dt_a...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F6VM1S3/ref=ods_gw_fnn_xpl_dt_atf_shov_pt_en_0925?pf_rd_p=d1850fba-
bf7a-4b5c-8952-f505fad79e33&pf_rd_r=CE25W7EX405HCV5BKXA5)

~~~
markdown
OT but I love the way they showed the noise cancellation feature on that page:
[https://m.media-
amazon.com/images/G/01/kindle/merch/2019/ONT...](https://m.media-
amazon.com/images/G/01/kindle/merch/2019/ONTHEGO/19951312/03_dt_eb_1500x540_1x.mp4)

------
puranjay
I was gifted an Alexa and disconnected it after the first day. Whatever minor
convenience it offers aren't worth the massive privacy risks.

That's what bothers me so much about all these gadgets and apps. They don't
even offer anything revolutionary. Just a handful of gimmicks and evolutionary
improvements to things you could already do.

Yet people are happy giving up their privacy for it.

It's not that hard to add tasks to your to-do list manually. Or to switch on
your table lamp by hand.

~~~
friendlybus
Same with my family members getting google home products. Never switched on. I
think people tolerate phones and computers because they are isolatable objects
that are meant for work. The further this stuff steps into family life and
real life relationships (not just narcissistic projections on facebook/ig
pages), the more people don't want it.

------
screaminghawk
I'm really conscious of sharing half my conversation with something. I don't
even like talking on the phone in public. Not a fan of all these devices that
are only powered by voice.

I really wish Google Glass had been a success.

~~~
big_chungus
Because google is so much more trust-worthy about privacy?

------
pacomerh
I have never seen anyone say "Hey Google, Hey Siri, etc" in public, don't
think this product will do well

~~~
codazoda
I work at a tech firm. We use these tools fairly regularly. Often, someone
will ask a question the other person doesn't know the answer and will turn
around and ask their phone. Works pretty good much of the time.

I'm still not sure how useful the frames will be, but I can see a few uses for
them, especially on my daily commute.

~~~
ec109685
I guess I am old. I would just use browser.

------
darepublic
Eventually this will evolve into a system where you can just think of what u
want and an AI assistant will go and do it for you, optionally presenting
results within your field of vision, or if you're not an oldtimer, directly to
your brain

~~~
diffeomorphism
That would be the good part. The bad part is facebook/amazon/google/apple
recording every thought in your brain 24/7.

I wish that instead of being financed by surveillance, you could buy an
alexa/google assistant/siri subscription.

------
yalogin
Amazon is now throwing Alexa at the wall to see what sticks. I don’t see how
this made past the initial pitch.

~~~
paul7986
Yeah i agree after trying Bose's smart glasses I felt like why wouldn't i use
this/they are better then just regular eye or sunglasses. Regular glasses you
can not listen to music through, take phone calls, hear pertinent information
about your surroundings, etc.

I feel smart glasses will be bigger then Apple Watch/smart watches and almost
as big as smart phones. Most people wear eye or sunglasses already.

~~~
yalogin
You read my post wrong. I don’t like them. I wouldn’t have funded them at all.
In fact I wouldn’t even have entertained a prolonged discussion on them, they
just don’t make sense the way they are released.

~~~
paul7986
Cool but they are going to be as big or bigger then the Apple Watch.

Go try a pair on ..why wouldn't you wear these glasses vs. just regular seeing
or sunglasses?

------
orliesaurus
Looks just like Bose frames. I haven't used Echo Frames but I own and have
used the Bose frames and constantly pair them up with Google Assistant on my
phone.

Here's a few opinions on my experience:

\- The glasses look bulky but don't feel it

\- The sound system is pretty decent, I can listen to music and take phone
calls and the audio will be crystal clear

\- I don't like the fact that if I raise the volume everyone can hear what I
am listening to, this is particularly bad for phone calls but even when
listening to Google Assistant giving me the weather forecast rundown can
become a problem for others around (not me obviously - but people who think I
just have really loud invisible headphones in my ears)

\- Battery life can be better, it's not terrible but it's still a bluetooth
device that needs to be in touch with your phone to work so it's not too bad
ultimately! Depends how much music you will listen to..

\- Lack of camera sucks hard: I could think of 200 use-cases for having a
camera, instead I have to raise my phone and use Google magic glass to scan QR
codes or to translate text. Shame :(

\- Did I mention they just look bulky?

Overall they're nice and rather useful in some very specific situations, I
love biking with them (they're protecting my eyes from UV properly according
to Bose) and I love going for walks around the park wearing them - but only
when I am alone and not too many people around so I don't look like I've got
bees in my ears. Yes the buzzing can be annoying for people who walk beside
you. (Or maybe that's a good thing, if you don't wanna hear your friend
complain about how the price of their favorite beer went up another half a
dollar here in Austin. /sarcasm)

------
kodachi
To all the people who don't like/freak out about their data being harvested:
would you use such a device, if it is completely open (both hardware and
software) and the data is under your control?

~~~
cheald
I'd be much more inclined to, yes. The "Tony Stark" fantasy is a neat one -
it's just heavily tempered by the reality of how much data and control we're
letting out of our control.

~~~
crooked-v
Same answer here.

The only company I'd even think about maybe-sorta-kinda trusting with this
kind of device would be Apple, and that's only because they've put a clear
priority on making more and more stuff happen on-device and on not selling
info on what happens off-device.

------
narak
Direct competition for
[https://www.bynorth.com/focals](https://www.bynorth.com/focals). Not sure how
North (fka Thalmic Labs) competes?

~~~
bearcobra
Now that you don't have to go to a showroom to get them, I'm super tempted to
try these out. Anyone have any experience with them?

~~~
TallonRain
I have a pair. They’re pretty neat and my general take on them is that they
show some great promise for the principle of the technology and North’s
implementation works as advertised. I particularly appreciate the
notifications and ability to make some quick text messages with it. I look at
my phone a bit less now because of it, which is nice.

I’m mildly skeptical of the ring controller and I have had a couple of them
break on me. However, their customer support has been great and they replaced
them immediately with no problems whatsoever. Overall though it’s pretty solid
and I sometimes catch myself missing the ring if I’m not wearing it, but that
might just be my fidgeting habit.

North definitely sold me on the concept and I’m looking forward to more
advanced implementations of the technology going forward. I’m not completely
sure if I would recommend any of these glasses products coming out (like from
Amazon or North or Facebook) to my friends at this time, but if you’re curious
about them or if you like having the cutting edge, then they’re absolutely
worth a look at least. If anything, the display will be a cool thing to
experience if you haven’t seen it before.

------
outworlder
"Eye"glasses which do nothing related to your eyes. At least Google Glass had
a display.

Can I just have a display? Pretty please? Doesn't have to be high resolution,
it doesn't have to have much intelligence other than connecting to my phone.

We just need magic-mirror-like glasses that don't look like you have been
captured by a Borg cube.

~~~
mackrevinack
a display seems like the only way to go with something like this. having a
camera is too invasive but having only audio seems like it would be very
limiting.

at least with a display you can have a conversation with someone while you
glance at it but having to listen to 2 things at the same time isn't something
most people can do

intel's glasses seemed like the best compromise but it's been years since they
announced them so I'm guessing it was only some sort of concept

------
WaxProlix
"Google Glass, but only the creepy bits."

~~~
rtkwe
I remember the camera being the bit that got everyone the most skeeved out
over Google Glass. Also it standing out so much made it too odd and obvious.
These scan a lot more like plain old glasses.

~~~
WaxProlix
Yeah, this has fewer sensors, but is 100% still a monitor-the-world-and-phone-
home device. Glass delivered a lot of additional functionality via the camera
and AR capabilities.

It was glib, but still- much of the utility is gone, leaving more or less just
a monitoring device.

~~~
rtkwe
Yeah it removes a lot of the utility, though I'd say Glass wasn't an AR device
really at least not in a real useful sense. To me AR requires placing the
visuals tracked in the environment not just in a little display like Glass
did.

------
rwmurrayVT
Uhh.. I would love to have been involved in the product design meetings for
this one.

The problem with Google glass was just the camera! We can do it better!

~~~
BaconJuice
ok so let's hear it then? How would you do this better? very curious to know.

~~~
ceejayoz
> How would you do this better?

A set of Apple's AirPods do everything this can do, far less obtrusively, and
cheaper even.

~~~
qroshan
1) I already wear glasses, and I hate earbuds. This product suits me
perfectly.

2) Amazon also released earbuds.

~~~
BaconJuice
Exactly. My question for OP was not an attempt at being passive aggressive.
I'm actually curious to know what he could do better in that product meeting
as he stated. I'm just trying to think what would a better way for Amazon to
bring Alexa to people in a more convenient way and can't think of anything
else from what they are doing. Just curious to know what OP has to say.

------
colechristensen
I’m not willing to carry around a corporation controlled microphone on my
face.

The only voice recognition I am comfortable with would run on open source
software on hardware I owned and physically possessed. I have looked and this
doesn’t seem to really exist.

~~~
mackrevinack
apart from snips? [https://snips.ai](https://snips.ai)

------
hourislate
If anyone visits Japan, I highly recommend visiting

[http://www.fournines.co.jp/collections/2020/](http://www.fournines.co.jp/collections/2020/)

The Frames are absolutely the best I have ever seen in my life. They can get
expensive but absolutely worth it. Got a pair of these that are made of
titanium. They are so light you forget you even have glasses on.

[http://www.fournines.co.jp/products/detail233.html](http://www.fournines.co.jp/products/detail233.html)

They may have a shop in California.

~~~
Analemma_
You don't necessarily need to go to Japan, there are a couple of different
Japanese brands of titanium frames and most high-end glasses stores will have
at least one. I've got a pair of Waza frames, and as you say: expensive, but
highly recommended. They're basically weightless.

------
markstos
I'd rather they worked on making regular prescription eyeglasses and frames
less expensive. That would help a lot more people and could still be
profitable considering the huge markups on frames now.

~~~
kodachi
I'd rather see easy to use 3d printers and good designs that you can buy
yourself and tweak if you want to.

~~~
sannee
Prusa did this way back:
[https://twitter.com/josefprusa/status/425772744777940992](https://twitter.com/josefprusa/status/425772744777940992)

Unfortunately the source code disappeared from thingiverse...

------
pkaye
It would be nice to have hearing aids based on this concept. That way you can
hide a nice microphone, larger batteries and a better DSP chip.

------
jedberg
> And with no camera or display, you stay in the moment.

In other words, no one will ban you from their bar like they did when you wore
your Google Glass.

~~~
codq
That was Molotov’s, my neighborhood punk rock bar in SF. I was so proud after
that happened.

------
Causality1
I might be interested in these if they offered bone conduction speakers like
some sunglasses, since "bone conduction glasses with prescription lenses"
isn't a product anyone has yet successfully launched.

>Amazon open-ear technology directs sound to your ears and minimizes what
others can hear.

That just sounds like bullshit-speak for "earbuds hanging outside of your
ears".

------
retrocryptid
Sadly, I don't think we could allow these at my workplace. We sometimes
discuss _secret_ things.

------
benawad
It would be cool to be able to attach it to different frames. The default one
looks low quality.

------
a0zU
I really don't understand why anyone would want any of these new Alexa
products, your phone has all the same capabilities and it only takes an extra
4 seconds to pull your phone out and talk to Siri or Whichever other voice
assistant you prefer.

~~~
crooked-v
Also, if you have the new Airpods they can already do 'Hey Siri' even with
your phone in your pocket.

I suspect the draw here is intended to be for people who already wear glasses
all the time, but I personally would trust Amazon exactly not at all with that
kind of omnipresence.

------
angry_octet
No one seems to be addressing the fact that these frames are just damn ugly.

Luxottica, while a profiteering monopoly, at least has a zillion different
styles. And would you spoil the look of your $500 glasses with some clip on
doodad?

------
ttul
Literally my first thought was, "is this a repost from April 1st?"

------
geggam
So if google glass people were glassholes what do we call alexa people ?

~~~
itcrowd
Good: Echompanion (this list is more difficult)

Bad: E. Choli, Echocentric, Echoterrorist, Echromancer, Echoroomer,
Echommercial, Echo-kroach, Echonvict

------
ben174
I'm assuming this uses some sort of bone conduction to allow you to hear alexa
without having to have earbuds, but still keeping it quiet to others. I wonder
how well it's implemented.

~~~
css
Like the Bose that came first, these are not bone conduction, just speakers
aimed into your ears.

------
bdcravens
One thing that seems to be lost here: this is an early-adopter product. It's
entirely possible this is little more than an R+D product subsidized by those
who want to participate.

------
egypturnash
Awesome! Now Amazon can listen in on my conversations even when I’m away from
home! And as a bonus they can hear everything anyone I’m near says, too!

~~~
tantalor
Do you carry a phone?

~~~
johnisgood
Perhaps he just does not want to use one more spy device. :)

~~~
egypturnash
She. :)

~~~
johnisgood
She! :D

By the way, is there a gender-neutral third-person pronoun besides the
singular "they"? It can get confusing to some people. "It" can probably get
confusing too, and I think it is also considered rude to refer to people by
"it". I have never used "it" to refer to people. Many languages have gender-
neutral third-person personal pronouns. I wish English had something that is
less ambiguous than "they" or "their" (I know, context!). Maybe I should just
start using "s/he".

~~~
egypturnash
I hang out with a lot of queer/non-binary/agender/etc folks and "they" is
generally the preferred choice for both people whose gender you don't know and
for a lot of enbys. There is a very small set of agender people who would like
to be called "it" but for the most part that's considered a dehumanizing
insult, yeah - don't call anyone "it" unless that person has specifically said
that's their preferred pronouns.

People have proposed [a bunch of gender-neutral
pronouns]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-
person_pronoun#Alternati...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-
person_pronoun#Alternatives_to_generic_he)) (scroll down a bit and you'll find
a chart) but none of them have achieved sufficient usage to stop sounding kind
of weird and funny to most English-speaking ears.

s/he will probably work for written text... until you end up in circles with
enough people who prefer "they" for it to start being a problem. Maybe you
never will, I dunno. If you're in a large software company on the West Coast
you probably will.

------
undefined3840
I’d question why someone would get this over Alexa-powered earbuds. The
obvious benefit is this is “always on” your face and earbuds that are only on
X% of your waking day, but at least when you are alone it seems like most
people would wear their buds/headphones enough of the day where no one would
really feel like they would need it in their glasses over headphones.
Headphones are also an easier sell to a wider population of users since
they’re relevant to all vs a subset of people who need or want to wear
glasses.

~~~
reaperducer
Maybe for people who already wear glasses, but are unable to wear earbuds?

Whenever AirPods come up in discussion, there are plenty of people on HN who
say they don't fit right, or are worried they'll fall out while exercising.
Maybe that's the audience?

Or maybe people who can't wear buds at work?

Yeah, I'm not really sure what huge market there is for this product.

------
bawana
too much. alexa should stay on the phone. putting alexa on watches,
eyeglasses, bicycles, cars, etc..is like trying to make other good things TOO
ubiquitous. Imagine toilet paper packets for your purse, your wallet, your
car, your office..

Promoting certain activities steals time and space away from other more
appropriate activities.

------
fooblitzky
You'd think in 2019 that they could think of another use besides managing a
shopping list for the woman.

------
unityByFreedom
Is there a way to use bone conducting headphones with Alexa, such as the
Trekz?

------
dudew
I wonder if Amazon reached out to Bose on this to collaborate.

------
zkid18
Liked the way Amazon shipped this product. It’s definitely a prototype of
mature version of smart glasses which can provide some useful insights about
customer behavior.

------
nocoder
Reminds me of Tilly from Paper Menagerie!!

------
mcemilg
Why not just headphones but glasses?

------
Kiro
Another thread full of unsubstantial negativity and jokes. If I wanted to read
comments like this I would go to reddit.

------
j-walker
People with small bluetooth speakers strapped to their head blasting music for
everyone to hear... great.

------
GenerocUsername
These seem terrible

------
elektor
Are there any legitimate glasses with a camera instead of a microphone?

------
okmokmz
Wonderful, now my data can be harvested wherever I go instead of just in the
privacy of my own home

~~~
bdcravens
You don't have a smartphone?

~~~
squeaky-clean
> You don't have a smartphone?

Not one developed by Amazon. It's not fair at all to say a microphone in an
iPhone is equivalent to a microphone in an Amazon device.

~~~
OrgNet
Apple keeps recordings for 2 years, how long does Amazon keep theirs?

~~~
squeaky-clean
I agree with you on the point you're getting at. Really anything that can be
potentially logged due to a bug or accessed by a human may as well be
considered the same as perpetual, in my opinion.

The difference is I trust Apple enough to turn off Siri on my phone and feel
safe nothing is being broadcast online or stored locally for another app to
access.

Is this guaranteed? Hell no. I also don't read the source code of every open
source program I use (and even if I do I'm aware people exist much smarter
than me who can obfuscate their malicious code).

Apple's business strategy, their history of actions, and their security system
make me feel confident enough in _assuming_ my voice never reaches their
servers and cannot be turned in by an app without explicit permissions. That
last bit is also important. Like the Android Facebook background audio "bug",
even if it is really a bug, to me it's no different.

Lastly even if Amazon were trustworthy about not listening when they say and
not accessing voice data they shouldn't, I don't trust the platform very much.
Quick idea, can you create a multi-turn alexa skill that after the first turn
pretends Alexa is finished but it is actually actively recording and waiting
to fake a response to "Alexa! <do other skill>"? Personally I don't know,
don't have the source to check, and I wouldn't really believe any amazon
engineer coming in here and saying "It's impossible to exploit". (Even if my 5
minute idea is impossible multiply that times thousands of malicious people
spending much longer trying to exploit it)

edit: Don't mean to imply an Apple is impossible to hack or exploit. Just that
they take a more active stance and have the history to back it up.

~~~
OrgNet
> edit: Don't mean to imply an Apple is impossible to hack or exploit. Just
> that they take a more active stance and have the history to back it up.

the NSA don't need to hack them... they can just ask (they did).

what we need is true e2e encryption ...

------
MadWombat
Glassholes, but without the glass. Coming to you soon!

~~~
fortran77
So just "holes"

------
kissgyorgy
I immediately thought one use case where this might be extremely handy: for
stock brokers.

