
The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons - gscott
https://www.inlander.com/spokane/nearly-45-years-after-its-creation-a-fantasy-game-played-with-paper-pencil-and-dice-is-having-its-biggest-year-yet-in-the-inland-northwest-a/Content?oid=15615918
======
hellepardo
My friends and I play D&D because we have no real other option. We used to
play Minecraft and other collaborative building games as a group, but then one
in our group went fully blind. There is a complete lack of good multiplayer
computer games for entirely blind players (admittedly that is quite a
challenge), but D&D requires only imagination, which all of us still have.
Highly recommend if you have friends with vision disabilities.

~~~
mcv
No real other option? There are dozens of other excellent RPGs available that
rely more on imagination than sight. D&D is merely the gateway game.

There are of course D&D spin-offs and clones like Pathfinder and 13th Age, old
school (OSR) "retro-clones" like Dungeon Crawl Classics, Lamentations of the
Flame Princess and many, many others. Then there are the classic non-D&D games
like Shadowrun (in its 5th edition now), Traveller, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
(4th edition just released), and GURPS. There's Savage Worlds for fast-paced
pulp-style adventures, FATE for absolutely anything you can possibly imagine
(including publications for Dresden Files and others). There's FFG's excellent
Star Wars games (Edge of the Empire, Age of Rebellion and Force and Destiny),
and dozens if not hundreds of smaller indie games, many of which are
completely free.

We are truly living in a golden age for roleplaying games. D&D is merely the
most visible and best-known one.

~~~
SaulOfTheJungle
What non-D&D game would you suggest to someone who enjoys D&D but would like
to explore other systems?

~~~
mcv
There are way too many options to give a simple answer to that question.

If you want to stick close to D&D, Pathfinder and 13th Age are obvious
choices. If you prefer something a bit more raw, less polished maybe,
deadlier, where survival is a goal in itself and combat may be better avoided,
try one of the OSR systems, like DCC, LotFP, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, etc.
Lamentations of the Flame Princess is weird horror and explicitly 18+. If you
want the feeling of D&D but with a system that focuses more on the story and
the experience than on all the numbers in D&D, then try Dungeon World. A lot
of people lauded Dungeon World for recreating the feeling they had when they
first played D&D.

If you want to get further away from D&D, well, what direction do you want?
Fantasy? SF? Cyberpunk? Historical? Martial arts? Horror? Steam punk?
Espionage? Military? Old West? TV shows?

~~~
SaulOfTheJungle
> If you want to get further away from D&D, well, what direction do you want?

SF or Cyberpunk

~~~
saalweachter
Shadowrun is the canonical cyberpunk RPG.

Starfinder is, I believe, Pathfinder in space.

GURPS is setting-agnostic.

~~~
naravara
>Shadowrun is the canonical cyberpunk RPG.

Aside from the dated and weird essentialization of Native American cultures,
Shadowrun's setting is really good and fun.

Unfortunately it's hard to run a game with a decent narrative flow just
because the combat system is so complicated. My group decided to shame people
out of playing mages or riggers just because we didn't want to have to deal
with simultaneously doing combat in cyberspace and the astral plane at once.
It really puts a damper on having a fun game that flows. I wouldn't recommend
it for someone new to pen&paper RPGs.

On the other hand, the tedium of combat gave us a strong incentive to talk our
way out of problems instead of going the murder-hobo route.

------
trynewideas
Is it unlikely? Board games were already growing fast. Even CCGs were growing
fast, not only through video games but still as physical games too. People
want to sit down and get offline and spend time with each other, _and_ people
who used to do that want to get online and hang out with each other.

All the RPG market needed was one publisher with good production values and
broad distribution to discard a big chunk of its worst, thorniest rules.
Wizards was happy to oblige...

Pathfinder saw it too with their precursor Beginner Box, which also threw out
a big chunk of its worst, thorniest rules and sold like crazy off a Humble
Bundle. They just didn't get the distribution (or the right YouTubers on
board) until it was too late, and never plugged their Beginner Box into other
content as elegantly as Wizards did.

~~~
smaili
Speaking of CCG's, any collectors who happen to be coders? I haven't met too
many at the local shops I stop by so I always figured collecting cards wasn't
very popular amongst engineers.

~~~
JonathanMerklin
I collected the 1996 Netrunner CCG for years; last year I found someone who
was more or less selling off their complete collection (I didn't have any of
the 2.0 cards or the majority of the 2.2 cards, and was also missing a handful
of the 2.1 rares - inheriting a couple boxes of all the miscellaneous spares
was fine by me if it meant a 100% complete binder) so that very expensive
chapter of my life has closed.

I also went out and finished my "first TCG appearence of the original 151"
Pokémon collection with one of my first few paychecks after graduating (had to
shell out the money for Charizard and a couple others that were never in my
collection from childhood). I really wanted to retroactively declare myself
the coolest kid on the playground at recess, otherwise what was all that work
for? :)

Sadly, while card games were an important part of my life growing up, a lot of
mental switches flipped over the last year or so and I honestly regret
spending so much money and time in the card game world over the entire first
part of my life. In 2012 Android: Netrunner introduced me to the LCG model and
made me realize that the CCG model was exploitative and a terrible use of my
money (obvious in retrospect, but when you're in the thick of it, you try and
rationalize it, you know?). Then, working towards my degree for a few years
after that kept me out of the tournament ecosystem for so long that I found
myself not wanting to go back - there were simply more productive uses of my
brain cycles than deck construction and playing games. I know they say "time
enjoyed wasted is not wasted time" but if I would have programmed or learned a
few languages or focused on competition math or read classical literature or
learned to cook or any number of other things in that first 18 years, I'd be
so much better off [1]. It's possible many coders feel the same way, and
that's why you're not seeing them.

[1] In fact, should parenting be in my future, I don't think I'd let my kids
have nearly as much post-pubescent "non-skill-building" fun as I was allowed
to have; competition for income is fierce and it's only going to get worse.

~~~
lmm
> I know they say "time enjoyed wasted is not wasted time" but if I would have
> programmed or learned a few languages or focused on competition math or read
> classical literature or learned to cook or any number of other things in
> that first 18 years, I'd be so much better off [1].

Better off in what sense? If we're talking about skills that apply to the rest
of life, I honestly feel like deck optimisation was much better preparation
for a real-world career (where the problem scope is never fully defined, the
measure of success always involves an element of randomness, and hidden
interactions abound) than competition maths was. And while it exercises a
different kind of imagination and storytelling, I'd argue that games in a
shared-world fiction can give a more intense practice of the things that
classical literature give you.

------
sudosteph
Paradoxically, tech has actually made DnD much more accessible to the masses.

When my friends and I first started playing 3.5 in middle school, we pooled
our money for a single player's handbook (they were pricey back then!) and
would constantly be passing it around any time anyone needed to do anything,
which really slowed down the pace of the game and made it hard to get
intimately familiar with the rules.

Eventually someone found a PDF dump of some books, and suddenly not only did
we have access to useful stuff like the monster manual and DM guide, but we
could search the text super quickly and get familiar with the rules at home,
on our own time.

Now that we're adults who can actually afford the books, we don't need the
PDFs - but we still benefit from using phone apps for dice rolling and
spellbooks, and roll20 for combat.

~~~
ajross
I've timed it in actual play: it's quicker to google for a monster stat block
(one from the SRD, obviously) than it is to look it up in the Monster Manual
sitting right next to the laptop.

~~~
klodolph
Sure, but from experience in play, sticky notes in the Monster Manual are much
faster for switching back and forth than browser tabs are.

~~~
ajross
That's a cache, though, when the use case at hand is random access.

I mean, if I'm willing to do some prep work I can surely do even better than
sticky notes (like, heh, "google for all the monsters ahead of time and line
them all up in browser tabs").

~~~
klodolph
Perhaps that's your use case, it's not mine.

How DMs prepare, if they do, is highly variable. But most DMs choose monsters
ahead of time. This appears in survey data in _The Lazy Dungeon Master._ The
questionnaires are interesting, when asked how they would prepare for a
session if they only had 30 minutes, most DMs explicitly mentioned choosing
monsters.

Over the years, my personal experience is that running things out of the
browser or PDF is great if you need to search for random rules and other
situations that come up during the game, but paper books and notes are
overwhelmingly superior for expected conditions like encounters and monsters.
I've used various laptop systems (wikis, docs, text files), apps, and paper
systems (typed, handwritten, paper or notecard). On the balance of things I
decided that running the game with a laptop was worse than running a game
without one, at least the way I play the game.

That's just a personal choice, but it seems like most DMs do choose monsters
ahead of time.

~~~
colomon
I've been running the old d20 Star Wars game for my kid, and with PDFs of all
the rulebooks, one of my main game prep things is printing out the pages for
the creatures / characters / spaceships I think are likely for a session.

------
tunesmith
We started playing a year ago, it was my first time playing since the
mid-80's, and we're doing it all from my old AD&D (first edition) books and
modules that I had collected from then.

We really like it because as a group of newbies - four of the five players had
never played before - it gives us permission to do things that are really fun
but we never really would have found time to do before. We've incorporated
poetry reading, table-reading of scripts, songs, and silly tasks (I made my
wife pick a real estate lockbox we didn't have the combination for, before her
thief could advance to level 2).

So for us anyway, it wasn't anything about Wizards of the Coast or 5e... this
is strictly Gygax-level stuff we're playing. But I think some of it is a
blowback from many of us just feeling exhausted and discouraged about online
life, there is greater appetite for making these sorts of memories and being
creative together.

~~~
sudosteph
That sounds like a good time! I've actually had some of the most fun role-
playing experiences playing with new players who don't really have a
preconceived on what the typical limits of role-playing should be.

For example, we've got one player who decided to try and buy drugs in-game at
one of the seedier cities we were stopping at. Fast-forward many sessions
later, and she's now a kingpin of sorts with an owl-delivery service and
contacts of varying trustworthiness all over the place. It does help to have a
very creative DM who likes creating random effects (inhaling ground up flail
snail shell turned out to be particularly silly) and teammates who don't get
bent out of shape over "less than optimal" play or whatever.

------
kriro
In Germany there's at least one other big P&P RPG called "Das Schwarze Auge"
(sold in the US as "The dark Eye" iirc and not very successful). I think it's
a good system and the lore is pretty nice (even though compared to my child-
self I now realized a lot of it is heavily influenced by real world
history/cultures).

Which makes me wonder...what are other native language systems that are
popular in the country but might not be known outside? My working hypothesis
would be that those exist in many countries because P&P RPGs are language
driven after all and so native language systems are the most natural tool for
storytelling.

Please do share if you're from a non-US country and have an interesting system
(and share if it is the go to system over DnD or comparable in popularity).

~~~
ajuc
In Poland there were Krzyształy Czasu (Crystals of Time) - a generic high
fantasy system made by people from Magia i Miecz magazine (pioneering magazine
about RPGS in Poland - it was the only such press for decades). There was also
"Wiedźmin - Gra Wyobraźni" \- an RPG based on Witcher franchise and targetting
new players reoughly at the time that Witcher was first adapted as movie and
TV series. It wasn't very good mechanically, but got some people in the hobby.

There was also Dzikie Pola (based on Polish 16-18th century - inspired by
books of Henryk Sienkiewicz - Polish Dumas). If you've seen "Deluge" or "With
Fire and Sword" movies you know the setting. Sabres, flintlocks, Polish
nobility, Ottomans, Muscovites, Cossacs, and wide steppes of modern Ukraine :)

On sci-fi side there is Neuroshima - fallout-like setting with some quirks. It
was popular a few years ago but I don't hear about it much anymore.

But the most popular was (and still is) fantasy Warhammer RPG. The first
Polish edition was the first time an RPG system was marketed in Poland and it
was a big deal, almost everybody to this day started playing RPG with first or
second edition of that.

Apart from that the most popular is Call of Cthulhu I think? Or maybe
Vampire:the Masquerade and related systems, but that's losing popularity
recently I think.

D&D was never very popular, that slowly changes recently.

~~~
kriro
Very cool, I never realized that the boardgame Neuroshima Hex! (very
recommendable, recently also "reskinned" as Monolith Arena) is actually based
on an RPG :D

Poland is a great boardgame nation, Ignacy Trzewiczek is one of my favorite
developers :)

~~~
ajuc
In my previous job we played Neuroshima RPG after work sometimes. It was crazy
- the whole office participated - like 12 people including our boss and the
secretary, and one of the programmers were a DM.

We never really got to the point where plot happens, because it took forever
to fight stray dogs on the way with 12 players, but it was a lot of fun. The
fighting mechanics was inspired by Cyberpunk 2020 - a lot of dice throwing for
each attack :)

------
ergothus
The article undersells the whole story.

The Open Gaming License of 3rd edition D&D was definitely open source inspired
(despite my personal beefs with it) and kicked of a huge burst of new game
developers, and that bubble collapsed right on the tails of the CCG collapse,
which caused a big churn in the industry.

This led to a spike of online offerings, and the crowdsourcing era has meant
that while the last 10 years is anything but safe for authors, for players it
us as golden age.

Well beyond d&d (though there too) there is a wealth of options and better
support and community than ever, between publishers and players, and amongst
players. Tabletop games continue, as do video chat based games and play by
post forums. All while the old school games, MOOs and MUSHes thrive. Different
playstyles are supported, the communities are getting better about tolerance,
and the Satanic Panic is not part of mainstream culture anymore.

~~~
teach
I play D&D in person using a paper character sheet and physical dice, but I
created that sheet using D&D Beyond. And most of the rest of the party uses
D&D Beyond on iPads.

Holy hell is that more convenient for tracking spells and subtle rule
interactions than what I used to have to do as a kid.

In my eyes, it's letting technology do what it does best -- get details right
-- and frees up slightly more casual players to do the fun roleplaying part
without being so bogged down.

~~~
gota
Sorry if this is lazy but I can't really Google game related stuff right now,
but can you link an image with that sheet?

------
skywhopper
I don't think it's surprising at all. As mentioned here, people are looking
for alternatives to spending time online all the time. Then, as the article
mentions, LOTR, GOT, and Harry Potter have primed the culture to be big into
fantasy. And finally, we're a good 30 years past the peak of the D&D bashing
by religious types and the stereotype of it being a game for basement dwelling
stoners and creeps, which means we have a full generation of young adults who
don't have huge preconceived notions about the game.

------
Trisell
If you enjoy D&D then Critcal Role[1] is a must watch. Matt Merser is an
amazing DM. And the other players(all professional voice actors) are really
good as well. It’s great sit on the couch for a while or watch while working
type of fare. Each episode is multiple hours of great voice acting and D&D.

[1] [https://critrole.com](https://critrole.com)

~~~
mcjiggerlog
Also relevant - check out HarmonQuest[1], it's Dan Harmon (of Rick & Morty)
doing a campaign which is then animated over. It's absolutely hilarious and
very well made. Also, given each episode is only 25 minutes it's not quite as
big of a commitment as Critical Role!

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonQuest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonQuest)

------
tomc1985
What a shame that all this attention goes to D&D. There are so many other good
tabletop games with exquisite worldbuilding, languishing for attention...
Vampire: The Masquerade, RIFTS (my personal fav)

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Rifts has a wonderfully gonzo setting saddled with possibly the worst rules
system available in this century.

The Savage Worlds conversion is pretty cool, though.

~~~
Pxtl
I know. I ran a campaign of RIFTs and globetrotting in that setting was
awesome... But the rules were so very boring.

Palladium crashed catastrophically, sadly. There was some kind of theft
problem, and then they had a disastrous Kickstarter.... Such a shame they
couldn't find a way to modernize.

~~~
tomc1985
What was it about the rules you found to be boring? Rifts was my first RPG and
I remember the rules being complicated AF but I think we all sort of accepted
that as the price of entry or something

~~~
Pxtl
No customizing characters beyond rolling stats and picking skills/spells (and
just picking them, not saying how good they are at them) and weapons.

Fighting was mostly attack/parry/dodge. Not much variety in combat actions,
particularly with massive health values on everything.

Your stats hardly mattered unless they were above like 16 and got the skill or
combat bonus.

Most of the rules for non-combat actions were just simple skill-tests.

------
SubiculumCode
The saddest thing about having board games is not having anyone come over to
play them.

In particular for me at the moment, I have Battles of Westeros
[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/67492/battles-
westeros](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/67492/battles-westeros)

that many feel is one of the best tactical board games out there:
[https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979785/battles-westeros-
imm...](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979785/battles-westeros-immensely-
deep-strategy-experienc)

and yet I've played it twice in five years. ;(

~~~
tialaramex
To be fair, deep strategy games aren't exactly the most friendly thing to just
"dip your toe into", especially two player deep strategy.

If you wanted more chances for people to come over and play games few things
could be worse. Maybe 18xx (very crunchy simulationist games about early
railways) or full blown scale wargaming (e.g. Napoleonic). But even lighter
variants of those let people ease into it (e.g. skirmish wargaming, you can
buy a couple of boxes of miniatures and play skirmish variants of 40K or
various WW2 settings, and there are train sim games where you just run trains
and don't have a stock market, a territorial map and so on)

I know I won't have people over often enough to justify big set piece games,
so I carry things like "Love Letter" which you can play in a pub in 10
minutes.

~~~
SubiculumCode
That is very fair assessment that I also share. That is why I have other
games. But I do lament it!

For the most part, I get my gaming in by playing with people using play-by-
post in a Pathfinder roleplaying forum, which I like alot for the creative
writing and rp.

------
ilaksh
I think that D&D is interesting in terms of the contrast with computer
roleplaying games.

In a way it does a good job of showing both the current strengths and
weaknesses of computers. Managing the rules and stats by hand can be fun, but
I have seen many recorded sessions where it is obviously a burden that a
computer would be perfectly suited for.

On the other hand, aspects of D&D like face-to-face interaction and language-
based free creativity are things the computer can't handle well. Although
video chat is a thing. Computers can't understand language at this point so
they can't manage everything for you. Of course DMing is the most fun for many
people so they wouldn't want a computer to DM.

I wonder if there would be a way to translate the freedom that you get as a DM
or player in terms of world creation, scenario management, and freedom of
action, to an interactive video-game type experience. Maybe in VR?

~~~
sudosteph
Neverwinter Nights 2 had some solid tools for campaign building that were the
closest I've seen to creating a world with scenarios like those you see in
DnD. It helps that the game was almost literalally DnD, but still impressive.

I don't think DM'ing is necessarily fun though. Most everyone I know who DMs
sometimes, including me, finds it to be pretty stressful and a lot of work.
The real value to me, is that a really good DM knows when to break the rules
to enhance the game experience, and how to do it without making people angry.
They create scenarios that specifically challenge the characters that are
playing, not just for combat, but for role-playing purposes. Ie, a Lawful
wizard is tempted to steal a scroll that would contain the knowledge he seeks
the most, or a cleric who must decide whether to uphold her team's plan to
ally with an unscrupulous NPC, or to go rogue in the name of their ethical
code and deliver justice to said NPC. Good storytelling and cooperative play
is just something that comes very naturally to some people, and having a human
in the loop to respond to events in the context of an overarching narrative
and party experience is really hard ot beat.

~~~
ilaksh
Thanks for the info on Neverwinter Nights 2. I will check it out.

I agree about having a human in the loop. My idea though was that maybe you
could have the best of both worlds with a computer to help the DM. The trick
would be making the sandbox rich and responsive enough that the DM and
characters would really have freedom in the moment. Maybe the DM could have
tools that easily allow him to rez and customize appropriate objects and NPCs
in the visualization.

~~~
skocznymroczny
As far as I remember, in NWN1 multiplayer sessions you could have a player
play as the DM. He had access to stuff like spawning items, could spawn
monsters on top of the party etc.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3pclUiro-4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3pclUiro-4)

------
tareqak
There is one aspect where I think digital board games are superior: you don't
have to spend time setting up, putting away, or resetting the game. If there
was a way to do that in the analog version as quick as the digital ones, then
I would more willing to participate. Another thing might be "saving" the state
between long sessions: you can use a camera phone for certain parts, but its
more difficult for when there are secrets and you need a neutral 3rd party
(e.g. a card hand).

Edit/Update: My mistake. I've seen a few photographs of people playing D&D
(even the ones in the article), and it seemed like there was more of a board
and initial conditions represented by many pieces like board games. I've
played board games like Settlers and Monopoly where set up requires more time
and effort. Sorry again.

~~~
nouveaux
Digital board games are superior in almost every way except face to face
player interaction. For games with a high level of complexity, the analog
version is always terrible. Forgetting to move a bit when the game state
changes is always a sore point. Unfortunately, these games are generally more
challenging to port to digital as well.

For more casual games, I prefer to play in person with a beer in hand.

(PS My day job is running a game store. If anyone needs a recommendation on a
board game, let me know.)

~~~
usmannk
I'd love a recommendation on a starter game (or a few!) if you find yourself
with a minute! I play with a group who, including myself, are novices when it
comes boardgames. Between 3-6 players most of the time. We found ourselves
getting really into Puerto Rico and recently tried Terraforming Mars but
didn't _love_ it. I think TR would be better on a second playthrough when we
actually know the rules though :). I played Battlestar Galactica once as well
and found it great! Looking at boardgamegeeks is a bit intense with the
selection there so I'm hoping you might have a narrower range to suggest.

~~~
nouveaux
Terraforming Mars is my favorite game. I think its worth giving it another
try. I would remove the Corporate Era cards for now. These are the cards with
the white triangle near the bottom left.

Here are some games I would suggest for a group that likes Puerto Rico:

    
    
      -Lords of Waterdeep
      -Castles of Burgundy
      -7 Wonders (scales well to 6 players)
      -Pandemic Legacy (co-op)
      -Clank
      -Azul
      -Splendor
    

These all have different mechanics and feel, so it is a good starter set. Let
me know if you have more questions. Hope you enjoy these!

~~~
Sean1708
I played Splendor for the first time a couple of weeks ago when I visited my
parents and immediately bought my own set, it's just such a simple premise
that lends itself really well to interesting tactics.

------
Angostura
I can confirm that my 15 year old daughter and her group of friends got into
it because of Stranger things. Now have regular sessions with obligatory
pizza. I'm rather jealous.

------
rb666
Ironically, the best way to actually play D&D is...online, using Fantasy
Grounds software. This saves on an incredible amount of time and
micromanagement, creating time for actual RP and gameplay. Highly recommended,
plus you can actually include your non-local friends.

~~~
meekins
Roll20 is awesome as well

~~~
uberswe
Whenever I hear Roll20 I just think of this post
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_o...](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_on_roll20_i_just_cancelled_and/)

~~~
mcv
I had not heard that yet. I've always had a positive impression of Roll20,
although I'd never used it. This makes sure that I never will.

That thread is a good source of some alternatives.

------
mikejulietbravo
Given the amount of studies/reports coming out talking about how bad screen
time is for people, and how insane the amount of screen time we all log is - I
foresee a big resurgence in anything "analog".

~~~
suprfnk
> the amount of studies/reports coming out talking about how bad screen time
> is for people

I haven't heard of this, do you have any links for me?

------
_emacsomancer_
A really nice D&D 'implementation' is Lamentations of the Flame Princess, at
least in terms of the supplements, particularly Zak Smith's stuff. The last
time I played D&D was during the 2e era (though I stubbornly stuck to 1e), and
the LotFP has some of the flavour of the good I remember from that time (with
its own twists).

------
ryanmercer
I personally know of at least 5 people that started playing D&D because of
Stranger Things of all things.

~~~
freedomben
Likewise, several people. Stranger Things also got some people (like myself)
who never tried before to give it a whirl.

~~~
harryf
Watched stranger things with my teenage kids which led me to show them DND.
They found a nice break from playing fantasy related computer games

------
quadcore
I just realised what was really magical to me with pen&paper rpgs. My uncle
used to have this funny / ridiculous trick of his, with a deck of cards where
he would secretly see the bottom card of the deck while finishing shuffling it
and then ask you: "red or black?". You'd say "red", then if the bottom card
was red, he would say "then we take the red", or if the card was black he
would say "then remains the black". Basically whatever you would say would
lead to the bottom card and you'd supposedly be amazed when he'd show it to
you.

In a rpg, it's like "you're in the forest, what you do?", "well I walk east".
"ok you found a tower". Whatever you do, you'd find that tower haha. It's like
whatever you say have fun consequences but with thousands more options than my
uncle's trick.

------
Rooster61
I love DnD 5e and its approachability/newb-friendlyness. That said, the game I
have become enamored with here recently (one that I feel is underrated) is
Shadowrun.

It gets a bad rep (somewhat deservedly so) because of its overwhelming depth
and detail/learning curve, and the pretty horribly written core handbook. But
once you get past the pointy bits and really learn the utility of the system,
it's a pretty fantastic game that really scratches that itch for cyberpunk
fantasy.

It isn't just DnD plopped into fake leather trenchcoats and hacky-hacky
terminals (it has those things, of course). The gameplay is set up
differently, and has a heist-movie like flow, consisting of "shadowruns" which
are follow a meet client->make plan->prepare->execute flow, and lends itself
well to one-off sessions.

Give it a shot if someone around is interested and has played it before. You
might like it.

------
Mizza
Want to play but don't know how to get started?

Try my guide! [https://github.com/Miserlou/dnd-
tldr](https://github.com/Miserlou/dnd-tldr)

~~~
emasirik
I like this a lot; I'll be trying it on a few victi--er, boardgamers I think
might be able to appreciate tabletop RPGs but are pushed back by both social
stigmas and a belief that the rules are more complex than they are.

It solves the latter problem, at least. :)

------
nouveaux
Not only Dungeons and Dragons, board games are making huge waves around the
world. As a game store owner, I have observed a huge growth in tabletop games,
including board games. So it's probably not a coincidence that the most highly
rated board game (at least according to Board Game Geek) is an RPG based board
game. At the time of its kickstarter, I think it raised the most money as
well.

[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/174430/gloomhaven](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/174430/gloomhaven)

Speaking of kickstarter, I believe some of its most funded ideas were board
games.

~~~
adamredwoods
I've found Gloomhaven, Pathfinder The Card Game, or other "hybrid RPGs" to be
the better experience because it doesn't take up a full day.

~~~
brandoncordell
Maybe my group is doing something wrong because Gloomhaven takes up at the
VERY least 3-5 hours each time we play. That's only with 1-2 dungeons.

------
irrational
I would think a major factor would be the surge of modern board games. Last
year alone 5,000 new board games were published. This is called the golden age
of board games, and D&D would seem to be just one aspect of this trend.

------
beefsack
I've tried and failed to get into some RPG campaigns in a few different
systems (my general anxiety didn't help) but I listen to and absolutely adore
The Adventure Zone podcast[1].

There's scope for some really wonderful collaborative storytelling in these
systems, and the TAZ group are a few brothers and their dad and they gel
together perfectly. Helps that they have lots of podcasting experience too,
very high quality production.

[1]: [https://www.maximumfun.org/shows/adventure-
zone](https://www.maximumfun.org/shows/adventure-zone)

~~~
thebouv
I used to listen to TAZ but once the story started getting more and more away
from traditional fantasy or even high fantasy, I got bored with it.
Specifically the Crystal Kingdom arc drove me away. Just couldn't get into it.

------
packetpirate
I got into D&D by chance around 2009. Unfortunately I started with 4th Edition
(I know...), but I'm very happy that I did, because all throughout High School
I was one of the outcasts, but never had any of these mediums to confide in,
and often made fun of "nerds" even though I technically was one. Just playing
D&D has given me another way to meet new people and do something other than
play video games in my free time. I only wish I had more time in the week. I
have too many hobbies.

------
projectramo
There are two reasons to pick other game systems over D&D:

1\. You don't want the medieval + magic world and want to explore other
timelines. Maybe futuristic, Star Wars etc.

2\. You don't like the mechanics. Maybe the game system complexity slows you
down or else there is some weird arbitrage opportunity that messes up the
incentives. (Let's spend the whole game killing orc babies to build up XP
instead of solving the clues and then just beat up the bad guy at the end).

Do people have good recommendations for substitutes that solves #2?

~~~
docker_up
Isn't #2 solved by a good Dungeon Master? The DM should be able to take
control of the game so that players aren't just going around killing orc
babies. "In the distance, you see a group of 1000 orc parents coming searching
for the killers of their babies..."

~~~
projectramo
I don't like too much explicit intervention by the DM.

Part of it has to feel like the player to feel like there are fair predictable
rules that the game adheres to. Yes, the DM has to step in to make sure the
game feels good, but the extra work to combat game mechanics doesn't feel like
a good use of the DM's time.

Your solution is a good, creative one but I don't like that poor mechanics got
us here.

------
b_tterc_p
5e made great progrsss by stripping down rules and making things more
accessible. I think they should do it even further.

The core game is fun, but combat is quite slow, tedious, and, in my opinion,
not much of a good role play experience. Nix weapon stats, health, spell
slots, etc. Differentiate more heavily on specialties. Ward off fear of death
with a system of injuries and what not. Fighting can still be a huge part of
the game, but it shouldn’t be the underlying goal of most mechanics.

~~~
plopz
It sounds like you might like Dungeon World a lot more than D&D.

------
Balgair
I blame /r/dndgreentext and Critical Roll in part. Those highlights are
addictively fun to read/watch. Sir Bearington level DnD is a life goal for
sure.

------
wenc
I'm just wondering, are there many casual D&D groups for non-geeks? (like the
Adrian family featured in the article)

My only exposure to D&D was the episode of the "Community", and it looked
pretty fun. I wonder if the demographics of that group is normal.

I only ask because most of my friends have this perception that D&D
personalities are a little "awkward" and would not give it a chance, but have
no issues going to board-game nights.

~~~
dljsjr
So I felt the same way about it; I'm a card-carrying nerd but most of my
friends are decidedly non-geeks who still enjoy board game nights. At first,
it started off with me being afraid of introducing them to the less mainstream
boardgames. But one night I pitched Settlers of Catan (not exactly underground
but also not Monopoly by any stretch) and surprisingly they took to it. And as
we started playing more and more esoteric board games (some of them even
having faux tabletop/RPG elements to them) I was continually surprised that
everyone continued to enjoy them.

The most surprising thing to me, though, is that eventually _they_ approached
_me_ about trying out D&D. It was something I'd wanted to do for a while but
had never communicated it to them because I just assumed they wouldn't be
interested.

Point being: You may be surprised. You have nothing to lose by suggesting it
to them other than them saying "no". The 5th edition starter set even has the
option of using pregenerated characters to reduce the friction. Maybe even
start by showing them one of the CelibriDnD videos on YouTube; there's one
with Vin Diesel and one with Terry Crews, not people who the general public
usually think of as geeky.

------
topmonk
Just figured I mention tabletop simulator which is a sandbox and editor that
allows you to recreate and play nearly any boardgame ever created. I'm using
it to play a tabletop RPG with some other people I met online, and it works
very well.

[https://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator...](https://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator/)

~~~
brandoncordell
And you can find almost any game you can imagine in the workshop for free.
Best part is that some of the complicated games are scripted with Lua so you
don't have to worry about setting up the game yourself.

------
iheartpotatoes
I had a 25+ year gap in my D&D gaming. It started again when I moved to the
PNW and met a couple in their 40's who took gaming very seriously, and started
playing with them again. They introduced me to something I had overlooked:
comic book stores that had Walmart-sized gaming arenas! Now I'm hooked again,
but with people who care more about story than treasure. The amount of work my
DM puts into backstory is insane, and he asks the same of us (well, not insane
levels, but a commitment to character).

TL;DR - Playing D&D as an adult, with adults, is vastly different than playing
as a teen.

------
johnchristopher
I don't like the new crop and the new style. Tables I played were overtly
aggressive in a bad nerdy/intellectual way. I could sense the influence of
mmorpgs and competitive tabletop games. I play for the story and the
camaraderie, not to master loopholes in the rules and asserting dominance
through numbers.

~~~
simonh
D&D 5 has a lot less of that than say 3.0 and 3.5 or Pathfinder, they're gone
a long way to streamline the system. The general trend in RPGs over the last
few decades has been towards lighter weight, more story driven games. I'm not
personally a fan of D&D and it's tropes, and even then I'd go for something
lighter like Dungeon World, but for what it is D&D 5 hits the nail on the
head.

If you're interested, Meetup has a lot of local games groups listed you can
try out to see if you can connect with a like-minded bunch of people.

~~~
johnchristopher
Thanks. I checked meetup again but there are no groups where I live (Belgium).

------
joe_the_user
If anyone is curious, I run a Pathfinder (D&D fork) campaign in the Santa
Rosa, CA area.

[https://www.meetup.com/Sonomacountyrpg/events/pvhbpqyzcbrb/](https://www.meetup.com/Sonomacountyrpg/events/pvhbpqyzcbrb/)

------
jimjimjim
My interest was rekindled by the Acquisitions Incorporated Podcasts with Chris
Perkins and Penny Arcade.

~~~
DaniloDias
It is kinda criminal that they are overlooked in this article. Some genuinely
hilarious content in these videos.

[http://www.acq-inc.com/portfolio/category/live-show](http://www.acq-
inc.com/portfolio/category/live-show)

------
seanmcdirmid
I’ve always liked reading the sources and watching people playing RPGs more
than playing them myself. So all the new litrpg’s that are coming out these
days (eg on royalroaddl) have been great for scratching that itch. I wonder if
this is related to the current resurgence?

------
eltoozero
How funny, I just started picking up some GURPS material because I wanted some
RPG action that wasn’t all dungeon crawling hack n’ slash.

Between Cyberpunk, Illuminati, Atomic Horror, and a little Cthulhupunk, should
be some good times; if I can get a campaign together...

------
loydb
I am still running a campaign that started in 1979, with many of the same
players. We can only manage once/month, because getting 8-9 adults together is
a scheduling nightmare (thanks Doodle!), but we still love it just as much.

~~~
lordnacho
Have the lifestyles of the characters changed with the people who play them?

~~~
Timpy
This is a great question. I can see changes reflected in the characters I want
create as I go through different things in life, and I've only been playing
for a few years.

------
nevster
For anyone interested in checking out what their old collection may be worth,
head over here : [https://www.acaeum.com/](https://www.acaeum.com/)

------
nihil75
I was hoping it's catching with kids, but just adults..

~~~
floren
Two of the photos in the article are of kids playing D&D, and there's mention
of it in the text itself. Kids like D&D.

~~~
nihil75
The kids are playing with their parents: "it didn't take too much convincing
to get the whole family to play, including his 73-year-old grandmother."

The surge in Twitch and podcasting is adults: "One of the most popular live-
play Dungeons & Dragons web series is Critical Role, featuring a core group of
eight professional voice actors adventuring through custom campaigns written
and led by dungeon master Matthew Mercer. "

Why you diss me man

~~~
floren
What the hell are you talking about? Look for the ones captioned "Irvin
Reynolds, top left, leads weekly D&D sessions for kids at Uncle's Games." and
"RPG Research Vice President John Welker leads Dungeons & Dragons sessions for
kids twice a month at Spark Central in Kendall Yards."

------
baroffoos
I would love to play it but physical games require you to meet up and everyone
is too spaced out in this city to visit.

~~~
Pxtl
Lots of folks play these games in video chats.

~~~
C1sc0cat
I am starting a starfinder (pathfinder in space) that is doing that as well as
publishing on yahoo.

------
JimRoepcke
I'd really like to see someone write "The unsurprising resurgence of Dungeons
of Dragons".

------
etxm
I keep thinking I want to get back into D&D. Would love to play some RIFTS or
Shadowrun too.

~~~
mcv
I'm in the process of starting a Shadowrun campaign with old friends. We've
played Pathfinder over the past couple of years, but want to try something
else, particularly after our biggest Pathfinder-fan quit.

------
kraag22
I play something similar to D&D for 20 years and won't stop anytime soon :)

------
Graham24
I am currently DMing The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, every Sunday at 8:30pm.

------
cschep
offtopic! but very cool to see a story from the Inlander that includes bits
and bobs from Spokane, WA come across Hacker News :)

------
cordonbleu
IRC is loaded with channels where games are occuring. mostly closed channels
but very rich and real world complex espescially if you have a channel of
players roleplaying NPCs in character vs a channel of characters playing the
adventure. also echo dot understands what to do if i say echo roll 6d6.

------
shadowbound
Anyone knows how to build alexa skills, i think this is a chance! Alexa
activate D&D skill Alexa how many hit dice does a red dragon have? Alexa how
many days walking from harkenwald to fallcrest?

~~~
ZoomZoomZoom
I think there's some precedent using Alexa for DnD, although I'm not a user
myself.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/6f0s97/i_started_using...](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/6f0s97/i_started_using_alexa_with_my_sessions/)

------
luongdukdong
massive data hordes for D&D too.

~~~
3R3130R
Where? i see only an article about it being popular. please tell me where this
data is to be found?

~~~
taormina
open5e.com has some stuff

~~~
Ash_Nazg
thank you :)

