
Superfast rock-paper-scissors robot wins every time - j1vms
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24803751
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hugecannon
They'd go into a nice super-fast loop if you put two facing each other

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PhasmaFelis
I want to see that now.

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timdellinger
If you're going to "unveil a robot", then a better looking Scissors would be
called for here.

The algorithm is also likely foolable by throwing what appears to be one
symbol (e.g. rock), but then morphs into another symbol (two fingers go out
late in the symbol formation, in order to present scissors upon completion of
the movement).

A comparison of the reaction time of this robot vs. say... Google's automonous
driving car, or vs. an automatic stock trading machine, might present the
robot as interesting.

Multiple cameras and a wide variety of acceptable symbol geometries on the
part of the human player (rock rotated 90 degrees, the use of two hands, etc)
would add realistic complexity... and would require more complex recognition
algorithms, likely slowing down the reaction time of the robot.

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PhasmaFelis
Beambot's link below is informative. Turns out this is actually an
astoundingly versatile multifunction hand; the three fingers can each oppose
each other and are fast enough to dribble a ping-pong ball 10 times a second,
precise enough to use tweezers to pick up a singe grain of rice, and agile
enough to throw a cell phone in the air and catch it with fingertips.

Rock Paper Scissors is only one trick of many, but of course it's the only one
the media is interested in. Oh well.

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beambot
And like most robot systems, you can "trick" the robot by just occluding its
sensors. By the way... this robot hand can do other amazing feats of
dexterity: [http://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/08/03/high-speed-robot-
hand-...](http://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/08/03/high-speed-robot-hand-
demonstrates-dexterity-and-skillful-manipulation)

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pavel_lishin
> And like most robot systems, you can "trick" the robot by just occluding its
> sensors.

I'd probably lose rock-paper-scissors if you blind-folded me, too.

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tillinghast
Ok, I'll bite. Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't _chance_ the entire
point of rock-paper-scissors? In that case, how would observing your opponent
have any affect on the result?

Though I guess I'm backwards enough to have grown up calling it "Paper Rock
Scissors", so I might be oblivious to something here.

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Jtsummers
Back in grade school, against certain opponents, I could "intuit" their plays.
In retrospect, I was probably doing something akin to what the robot here does
(recognized what their hand was forming before I make my play) + discerning a
pattern in their plays.

Also, at this point I have no idea why we played rock-paper-scissors so much
in 3rd grade, but we did.

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ronaldx
I could beat my younger sister at RPS every throw. I couldn't have told you
exactly how I knew, but I knew what she had decided to play whenever she
started to move her arm. So I would reveal before her and still win... that
freaked her out.

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yummybear
Yes, if you consider it a win when you cheat.

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raybeorn
I don't understand how using all your abilities to win is cheating? I think
that is saying smart kids cheat on test because they are smart.

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jasonlotito
Cheating in rock-paper-scissors is changing your throw when you see what the
other person is throwing. I can win every time if I see what you are throwing
and can change my throw to beat it.

However, if we are okay with using all your abilities to win and not count
that as cheating, I can guarantee I win every time against that robot. I'd
just remove the power source.

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raybeorn
Winning is winning, no matter how you do it?
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru#James_T._Kirk.27...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru#James_T._Kirk.27s_test)

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sp332
At that point, you're not even playing the same game, so how can you claim
you've won?

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ISL
Because you become Captain of the Starship Enterprise?

Or, because you've achieved the mission goals?

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sp332
Kirk only got a commendation for that. He had to work for a long time after
the Kobayashi Maru incident to get the Enterprise.

You're begging the question. Achieving the same goals with different rules is
a different game. Using stilts and a machine gun to get a ball in a hoop is
not basketball.

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ISL
Yes, it's not a valid solution to the game of basketball, but it is a valid
solution to the "get a ball in a hoop" game.

I don't think the Kobayashi Maru test rules said anything about "don't try to
break the game". Success can result from relaxing an irrelevant requirement.

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sp332
It's not irrelevant if it's the difference between winning and losing. Since
you're already rewriting the scenario, why not just declare yourself the
winner from the start? It would save a lot of effort.

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ISL
Because the people aboard the Kobayashi Maru might live?

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tluyben2
Now if they would only take this great invention into outer space like in one
of my fav games:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tq7QngiiLI#t=163](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tq7QngiiLI#t=163)
.

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njharman
Wow! Physically superior things are superior.

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baddox
I bet robots can win arm wrestling as well!

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shasta
This explains how I kept losing to the hobo with the robotic hand set up on a
table outside that nightclub in Tokyo.

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IvyMike
Watching the video it still seems like I can still see that the bot is
responding to the human. (I mean, I know that _is_ what it's doing, but I
thought I wasn't supposed to be able to detect it.)

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CompelTechnic
I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords. Once they control rock paper
scissors, they control the world.

On a less jaded note, this is a pretty neat computer vision application.

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NAFV_P
Holy shit, can you imagine getting into a duel with Yul Brynner out of
Westworld with that kind of reaction speed?

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njharman
> Yul Brynner out of Westworld

Dude, I saw that as little kid and it freaked me the hell out. Relentless bald
man chased my nightmares for years.

Also, dude! I thought that movie too old / HN too young to remember that sci-
fi golden age classic. Thanks for making my day. Although, I worry about bald
bad ass chasing me tonight.

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NAFV_P
According to BBC's QI, a guy who used to teach actors how to shoot said that
there were only two people who wouldn't blink when they fired a gun...

Clint Eastwood && Yul Brynner.

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S_A_P
It's like playing Rock Paper Scissors with my son or step daughter! They never
lose. However they don't have a 1ms reaction time...

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j2kun
Wonder how it would fare with a rotating hand.

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perlpimp
sort of like HFT vs Regular traders?

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Gepser
rock paper scissors lizard spock

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kaeluka
diplomacy will never be the same

