
PayPal Doubles Fees, Forgets to Tell Customers - javery
http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/19/paypal-doubles-fee/
======
dpcan
PayPal has always charged this rate for business accounts when selling goods
and services.

So, the problem here appears to be that everyone running their personal
account for business purposes is bitching about how they can't sneak around
the fees anymore.

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andreyf
_Or just ditch PayPal altogether, and sign up for Google Checkout._

Good advice. I used PayPal for the first time in years trying out listia.com
the other day, and was amazed that they _still_ haven't added
autocomplete="off" to their credit card number fields - every piece of
information one needs to make online purchases is cached (unencrypted,
usually) to your hard disk. Idiocy.

~~~
patio11
I use both of them. I prefer Paypal. Google Checkout is just a redheaded
stepchild of a product. It has more sharp edges than a shuriken put through a
blender.

Here's one nuisance, among many: _Google_ Checkout makes it impossible for you
to _search_ by important pieces of data like, oh, customer name.

If I get an email from Jane Smith at an unrecognized email address (because
customers often have several of them), I can't find her transaction through
Google Checkout. I have to open up my dashboard, which was coded by some chump
who writes bingo card software in his spare time but nonetheless _is better at
search than Google_ , look up the transaction, then copy/paste the order
number so I can search by it at Google.

~~~
jsackmann
I'm confused as to the problem you're describing.

I log in to Google Checkout, there's a search box right above the list of
recent orders. (Title: "Search Orders.") I type in "Smith" and get a list of
10 orders. 6 of them are buyers with the last name "Smith." The other four
have "Smith" in the address somewhere.

I agree that search and reporting (among other things) leaves much to be
desired--I ended up hiring someone to do data entry when I wanted a list of
customer zip codes recently--but when I find myself in a similar situation to
what you describe, I have no problems at all.

~~~
patio11
Ahh -- seems they got around to fixing that. I swear, it used to be Order
Number or email address only.

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Grinnmarr
Would someone please clarify exactly what has changed? I cannot make out heads
or tails from the discussion here or on Paypal. How was it before? How is it
now?

~~~
ivey
Official clarification from PayPal:
[https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2009/08/a-clarification-on-
pay...](https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2009/08/a-clarification-on-
paypal’s-recent-send-money-updates/)

~~~
Grinnmarr
I read that prior to asking for clarity! I want specifics. Can anyone confirm
exactly what changed?

~~~
patio11
There are 3 account types on Paypal: Personal, Premier, and Business. A
natural person will usually have Personal or Premier. Personal accounts cannot
receive payments funded by credit cards. This restriction tends to force non-
consumer use of Paypal into a Premier account. In particular, eBay sellers
must use Premier accounts.

Of note: previously, Personal accounts did not charge money for receiving
payments. Almost no one uses Personal accounts to receive payments, because
they cannot take payments by credit cards, cannot be used on eBay, and cannot
be used with APIs (last time I checked). Premier accounts have always charged
money for receiving payments.

What changed: when you send a payment, you have to specify what the payment is
for. There are a few options:

Payment for: Services, Goods, eBay Items Personal payment: Gift, Payment Owed,
Cash Advance, Living Expense, Other

Here's the change: if _the sender_ codes a payment as one of the three
"payment for" options, the recipient gets charged. This is unremarkable for
99.99% of people receiving payments on Paypal, because they've had premier
accounts for years (to receive CC payments), but it inconveniences people who
were using Paypal to receive payments funded from Paypal balances.

Note: You can still receive payments, for free, if they're both funded from a
Paypal balance and coded as Gift, Payment Owed, etc.

~~~
DanielStraight
So the real problem is that their service is just too damn confusing.

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Pistos2
The Fee page on PayPal's site doesn't exactly clarify either:
[https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-
bin/marketingweb?cmd=_display-...](https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-
bin/marketingweb?cmd=_display-fees-outside)

It still says "Free when the money comes from PayPal balance or bank account",
which is what I thought people were complaining is no longer the case.

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csomar
I wonder why services like Moneybookers are not popular. It doesn't charge a
fee, it's available World wide and very simple to use.

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trafficlight
Wait. What?

Paypal always charged to receive money. That's how it works.

What am I missing?

~~~
wyday
The rates have changed. PayPal didn't tell it's users. But you're right, the
blog post didn't make that clear.

~~~
ivey
The rates haven't changed. They stopped charging business accounts a fee for
personal payments, and clarified (made the UI more explicit) that they do
charge a fee for all account types for goods & services.

See [https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2009/08/a-clarification-on-
pay...](https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2009/08/a-clarification-on-
paypal’s-recent-send-money-updates/)

The parent article is just wrong.

~~~
wyday
The rates _have_ changed. I've noticed it in our own sales. It started earlier
this month.

~~~
ivey
What were you being charged before, and what are you being charged now?

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zaidf
"Forgets" is being too nice.

