
Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers - psim1
https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-to-hire-100-000-warehouse-and-delivery-workers-amid-coronavirus-shutdowns-11584387833
======
tlrobinson
One of the more worrying things to me is how this pandemic (and/or our
response to it) will disproportionately affect small businesses and
individuals. As Amazon hires 100k workers how many jobs are being lost by
small businesses failing?

~~~
taurath
Amazon is now the only store open. This will clearly accelerate the death of
retail, to the point that I'm not even sure it will survive.

We must have a rent holiday if those businesses and their workers are to
survive.

~~~
WalterBright
> We must have a rent holiday if those businesses and their workers are to
> survive.

We'll get a lot of rent forgiveness naturally. If a strip mall has some
tenants who cannot make rent in this crisis, who are they going to get who can
pay? The pragmatic approach is to keep your existing tenants, because their
survival is your strip mall's survival.

~~~
fiblye
We might get a lot, but it likely won’t be enough.

Many land owners would already prefer to leave their buildings empty for years
over even considering negotiating on rent. I doubt anything can change their
minds.

~~~
majormajor
We need taxes on vacancies. Encourage people to let property go to people who
can put it to some use. Prevent blight and crime, etc, too.

~~~
umeshunni
Ah yes, the California solution to everything - tax it.

~~~
maest
Honest question - should taxes be abolished?

~~~
groby_b
Honest answer: No, because that would mean to return to Hobbesian world.

Taxes are a way to pay for communal goods. We don't pay enough of them - our
obsession with cutting them is part and parcel of the disastrous response to
SARS2-CoV.

I very much _like_ having a government that can step in during emergencies and
distribute the load. I _like_ living in a society where we care about other
people to.

Abolishing taxes is strictly "me first, fuck the rest". I suggest people who
like this approach try living in Somalia for a while, that's their desired end
state.

------
WalterBright
I suspected Amazon would do well in this crisis, and this development confirms
it.

My elderly neighbors, for example, are now ordering their groceries online and
having them dumped on their doorstep.

~~~
reaperducer
Lucky them. Amazon in my area hasn't had an available delivery slot in almost
a week.

~~~
servercobra
Same in LA. I got through by checking in at midnight. Took 4 days to get
groceries, but almost everything showed up (like 57/59 items)

------
eanzenberg
We notice delivery on Amazon is out to 3-4 days now (on prime) and were not
sure if it was due to supply or demand. Seems like demand.

~~~
tedmiston
In my area (midwest) Amazon (Prime) delivery is out to about 4 days. But it
does seem to depend on the item. I ordered a tennis racquet "Prime" yesterday
that was in stock and the quoted delivery isn't until Friday / Saturday.

Prime Now is now unavailable entirely. At checkout, it simply says "No
delivery times available" for all stores.

Amazon Fresh also gives no available delivery windows.

~~~
pkaye
According to a news article from yesterday, Amazon Fresh and Whole Foods
delivery have been stopped.

~~~
chx
Do you have a source?

~~~
pkaye
I tried to find the source but it looks like it was more speculation in a
Reddit post. Sorry for the wrong info. Perhaps Amazon is just being
overloaded.

------
QuadrupleA
Hard to find a non-cynical comment on HN these days, so I'll just say: this is
cool. A way for people to get crucial goods in a relatively safe way, and some
new jobs with a pay boost in a time of economic instability.

~~~
markovbot
Amazon is profiting off a global health crisis. How could one not be cynical?

~~~
swiley
This I don’t understand.

They’re providing an important service to everyone and keeping them from going
out and getting sick, I’d hope that’s profitable to do!!!

Next you’ll say hospitals are profiting off the global health crisis?

------
cactus2093
Amazon seems pretty constrained by supply to me right now. Everything I have
looked for to stock up on from them due to the current conditions (alcohol
wipes, nonperishable food, etc) is sold out. But maybe they have scaled up
supply more than I realize and workers are becoming more of a bottleneck than
inventory.

Even if everything was in stock I'd expect my overall online purchases to
decline in the next few months. I'm not really worried about new clothes if
I'm not going outside, and a lot of things like toys and gadgets I usually
waste money on seem a lot less important with a worldwide pandemic growing
exponentially outside. I'm probably an outlier though in terms of how much I
spend/waste on online shopping discretionary spending in normal circumstances
(and a lot of that discretionary spending like clothes is not going to amazon
anyway).

~~~
dcolkitt
> Everything I have looked for to stock up on from them due to the current
> conditions (alcohol wipes, nonperishable food, etc) is sold out.

Do you have any idea what the full industrial capacity of the American economy
is? These type of basic items are all dead-simple to manufacture, and highly
unlikely to run into supply-chain interruptions.

I guarantee you that once Americans get the full on prepping instinct out of
their system, the inventories will all be replenished by next week at the
latest. This isn't the collapse of industrial civilization. The factories are
churning at 100% capacity.

People won't keep stockpiling six months of toilet paper every single week.
There's virtually zero chance that there's any significant supply interruption
beyond a few days.

~~~
nl
The toilet paper thing is bizarre.

We are a few weeks ahead of you here in Australia on the panic buying and
toilet paper is one of the few things we actually produce here.

But it's still impossible to get in most places a few weeks after the panic
buying first happened. People seem to buy it immediately on reflex, and people
who _didn 't_ panic buy are beginning to panic search for it.

One factor is that toilet paper is a bulky item, which makes the logistics of
shipping and storage tricky. But still! I'm very surprised at how fragile this
(fairly simple) supply chain has proven.

------
meerita
No matter how many, some people will complain about this. There is a huge
recesion in the entire world and a company is willing to hire more people and
haters gonna hate.

------
product50
Where is the comment here on billionaire taxes?

Literally Amazon is the only company because of which I feel comfortable right
now sitting in my house vs. panic buying.

~~~
Frost1x
I'll be more than happy to step in for that void.

Amazon and Bezos should certainly be taxed their share. I for one don't want
to support tax avoidance/evasion and theft from labor. They're not running a
charity work or a public service disguised as Amazon marketplace (there is
Amazon Smile to be fair) by any means, at least not to my knowledge.

Amazon doesn't make me feel any bit safer and no business should be
capitalizing on panic buying, be it a local business or Amazon.

They're running Amazon and hiring more workers because there's a massive
opportunity to further stamp out their retailer competition, solidify their
foothold further, and make money... not out of the goodness of their investors
hearts. It's about money/business opportunity, not your security.

~~~
WalterBright
And Amazon makes money by providing people with goods and services that they
need in a manner safer than alternatives.

Nothing wrong with that.

~~~
AQuantized
There's nothing wrong with that in of itself, but if it stomps out any
potential competition and renders them unable to compete after a certain
degree of monopolization, what sort of position will consumers eventually be
placed in?

~~~
mschuster91
> what sort of position will consumers eventually be placed in?

In a pretty shitty one. That is the ultimate goal of modern cut-throat
capitalism: get utter market domination, destroy all competition and once that
is done, raise the prices as far as possible without attracting too much
protest from the few regulatory institutions that remain.

~~~
WalterBright
> That is the ultimate goal of modern cut-throat capitalism

True, but the only way they can achieve that is by using the government to
outlaw competition and/or regulate them out of existence.

Their attempts to do it result in prosperity, high standards of living,
longevity, etc.

(it has nothing to do with being "modern")

------
crazygringo
I mean, here in Brooklyn you literally _cannot_ order AmazonFresh. No delivery
slots no matter how far in the future you scroll. And it's been this way for
at least a couple of days now.

So makes sense.

~~~
tedmiston
Are your options also today, tomorrow, day after; or can you see beyond that?

~~~
spike021
Not parent comment, but I was able to look at next week, but there were no
open slots there either.

~~~
kube-system
We just got a message that said "No delivery windows are available. All
remaining delivery windows for today and tomorrow are currently unavailable.
Check back for updates or try again tomorrow"

------
34679
Don't thousands of people work in each warehouse? Are Amazon workers immune?
At some point, some of these facilities are going to have closures. I wouldn't
predict smooth sailing for Amazon just because they're mail-order instead of
brick and mortar.

~~~
michaelchisari
From what I've seen, keeping regular distance would be easier than most
workplaces, and with proper procedures in place (regular sanitization, taking
temperatures, etc) you could keep the spread to minimal. But you're right, it
would not be immune to labor disruptions.

Right now, if I was an Amazon worker, I'd be hitting up every other employee
about forming a union ASAP. They're going to want that kind of bargaining
power to protect themselves.

------
jfengel
I hope they're finding ways to help keep them safe in the process. It would be
a huge benefit for people to be able to order things online, but not if the
warehouses themselves become cesspools of transmission.

~~~
Analemma_
Probably Amazon is aware that if health officials shut down their warehouses,
their entire retail business goes to hell. It's in their best interest to be
hypervigilant.

~~~
threatofrain
If Amazon even meets a bump on the road in terms of its logistical
performance, and merely due to acts of chance and nothing they could have
anticipated, then the whole nation would be put on edge. How would lockdown
even make sense without Amazon's logistics reassuring the population?

~~~
adventured
You have to do it the old fashioned way, pre Internet. Restricted & spaced
lines at physical stores or supply locations. Take/get a number access to
shopping resupply at stores or supply zones that are cleaned frequently. You
move into a real quarantine program. This sit at home and order stuff from
Amazon approach, isn't anywhere near that.

It would require the US military and national guard to implement and keep
functioning properly. You need someone with huge scale, federal power
(overrule local bullshit), and national reach to ensure safety, supply,
delivery and make hard decisions as they crop up.

------
neonate
[https://archive.md/Eyu8A](https://archive.md/Eyu8A)

------
cwperkins
This virus is a real opportunity for the firms who faced a big reputation hit
in 2008 to step in and show that they care.

------
tinyhouse
Did you see those videos of 1000s of people in line to enter Costco? Same
thing is happening with online shopping.

------
wonderwonder
That's awesome! Good to see a spark of positivity right now.

------
sremani
From what I heard (5th hand info) in China, most of the restaurant workers
went to work for eCommerce and food delivery jobs.

~~~
sho
No need to couch it in such qualifications, although your information is a bit
old. The Chinese delivery companies (Meituan, eleme) indeed went on a temp
hiring spree for idle restaurant workers during the shutdown. That was a month
ago; things are thawing out now.

------
Animats
Safeway is also hiring in a big way.

~~~
notJim
When I went to the store on Saturday, they said they did more business on
Friday than before Thanksgiving last year.

~~~
p1mrx
Friday was the first time I ever used a cart at Safeway.

------
m0zg
I really hope Bezos brings the full power of Amazon's distribution network to
bear on this crisis. Traditional retailers seem strictly worse from the
epidemiological perspective - you have to go to the store and there are
hundreds of people there at least a few of whom will have the virus, if not
now, then 2 weeks from now. They are also largely failing to cope with panic
buying, whereas Amazon's efficiency only gets better if people buy a lot of
stuff.

I also hope Amazon does this responsibly, and creates the conditions in which
the strictest possible social distancing could be maintained for people
working in the warehouses.

It's pretty clear to me that we can't shut down the economy due to this for
any extended period of time. We also can't do these planet-scale
epidemiological drills every year. If that's the case, we should figure out a
way to alleviate our current predicament as much as possible until there is a
vaccine or a cure. Amazon can be a large part of that.

------
ecommerceguy
From what I'm seeing: Grocery Health and Beauty way up; everything else way
down. If I were a RA person I'd be buying buying children's games from Walmart
and hope the input warehouse can handle the influx of shipments. RA is still
alive and well for the hustlers. I'm rooting for them!

------
gandutraveler
To all amazon haters in HN community, where do you guys do online shopping ?
Walmart ?

------
uberduper
Seeing Amazon surge hire 100k people makes me think of Zorg.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO6UY6uTg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO6UY6uTg)

------
rhegart
This makes up for a large number of recently laid off service workers

------
themagician
Amazon is only as good as it’s suppliers. If people can’t get to work to make
things, Amazon doesn’t get new stock and they have nothing to sell you.

------
ArchBang
Why not have the delivery and logistics of goods just exist as a general
public service?

Then put the potential profits made into running a better society.

~~~
blackoil
Because govt normally does poor job in aligning incentive and effort for
efficiency. Amazon will try to be most efficient because they are getting back
all the profit out of it.

Govt should make sure labour, monopoly laws and taxes are aligned with
society's expectations.

------
submeta
Buy Amazon stocks?

~~~
adventured
Not on the basis of retail demand. Their retail margins are horrible, as with
most of the industry.

AWS and advertising are where their margin and profit centers are.

In terms of retail support action - Costco's stock is one of the few large
companies that hasn't cratered. It's not much lower than its average for the
year, whereas most everything else has been hammered.

You could double Amazon's retail sales in the US and it will get you a few
extra billion dollars in profit. The problem is retail makes up a very modest
share of their overall profitability. So it won't move the needle much on a
$840 billion market cap. It works for Costco because essentially all of their
market cap is based on retail sales and the demand surge they're seeing. So
you get a direct IV line between the crazy panic buying and the COST stock.
Although, if there are supply problems coming up next, be careful holding COST
as well.

~~~
qvrjuec
On what basis? I see operating income between AWS and retail being relatively
similar. The margins for AWS are much better, but retail is still driving a
huge amount of profit for Amazon.

------
vkaku
Well, this is actually not a bad idea from Amazon. Hope they pay well and
don't screw these guys over.

------
lqs469
Death Stranding: Real World Edition

------
sys_64738
How do you stay 10 feet from other people? No gathering of more than 10
people, too?

------
allovernow
Do we know yet what the probability of packaging borne transmission is? Has
anyone seen anything? I saw one study describing virus lifetime on various
surfaces but I don't think they tested cardboard.

Also I don't know what they're expecting. They either have mountains of stock
or they'll be laying these people back off soon when factories close. I think
supplies out of China are still disrupted.

~~~
gregschlom
NPR talked about a study testing cardboard actually. Up to 24h under ideal
conditions.

[https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
shots/2020/03/14/8116090...](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
shots/2020/03/14/811609026/the-new-coronavirus-can-live-on-surfaces-
for-2-3-days-heres-how-to-clean-them)

Link to study:
[https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf)

~~~
allovernow
That's actually really good news, thank you. You can just leave packages
outside for a day or two.

~~~
turbostyler
Where do you live that you can leave packages outside for more than an hour?

~~~
Mountain_Skies
My neighborhood has eight houses per acre. We've had no problems with stolen
packages even when left out overnight. This is the exurban fringe of metro
Atlanta.

~~~
learc83
You're on the exurban fringe and you're at .125 acre lots?

~~~
Mountain_Skies
Surprisingly yes. There are also townhouse and apartment complexes. Most homes
are on bigger lots but I was surprised by the diversity of housing choices out
here.

------
hirundo
If this were a Bond movie, Bezos would be cackling in his secret lair about
how his viral plan was coming to fruition. Bond (played by Idris Elba) would
then cough on Bezos, who would whip out his antidote, which Bond would grab,
escape, and release to the world before being killed by Thanos. (Pitch
Meeting, call me)

~~~
reaperducer
If Bezos needs an evil villain lair for his secret headquarters, I know a
fortress in the American desert with three-foot-thick stone walls, solar and
diesel electricity, and its own water facilities, perched on a mountain ridge
for maximum visibility 150 miles from anywhere meaningful.

Last I saw, it was for sale for $750k.

~~~
tdsamardzhiev
Does it have enough bathrooms though?

~~~
antsar
More importantly... do those bathrooms come with toilet paper?

~~~
zxcvbn4038
Bezos uses the three sea shells. Plebeians like you and me use toilet paper.

------
justlexi93
I don't know if I should be happy about it or not. The world is currently
having a tough time battling Covid-19. How safe it is for these people to work
during the outbreak?

------
ezioamf
At some point even Amazon workers will have to stop working to contain the
virus. How Amazon if going to provide safety to workers when even doctors with
all protection still gets the virus?

~~~
y10
People who get the virus and recover will be able to go back to work without
risk of being infected.

~~~
derision
Re-infection has not been thoroughly studied yet

