
Ask HN: How to promote side project being a developer with no marketing skills? - rafapaez
I&#x27;ve made a few side projects during the last years. Most of them are not longer online. I built this one during the last Xmas: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coderlevel.com&#x2F; and I&#x27;m currently making this one: http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.transparentstartups.com&#x2F;<p>Unfortunately I&#x27;m terrible at promoting those projects or websites, so after a few months of work I usually end up giving up about them.<p>I find Software Development reasonably easy in general. I can convert my ideas into MVPs in a few weeks. However I struggle a lot with the Marketing side of it.<p>Have you been in the same situation in the past? How did you overcome it?
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joshontheweb
I found this helpful. [http://devmarketing.xyz/](http://devmarketing.xyz/)

It was just an ebook when I bought it but now its has videos as well. It is a
quick no-nonsense read that gives you a good foundation to work from.

~~~
mijustin
Hey, I'm the guy behind that site ↑. I just checked out
transparentstartups.com, and have a few tips that might help you:

1\. Identify _why_ you're building the project. Do you want to earn $100,000
in revenue? Build a public profile? Grow an email list for future projects?

2\. Determine _who_ exactly your project is for. Is it for investors? Aspiring
startup founders? People spying on their competition?

3\. Clearly articulate _what_ that audience's major struggle is. Why would
they visit transparentstartups.com? How does your site make them better? How
does it improve their lives?

4\. Cater all your landing page copy to _your audience_ , _their primary
struggle_ , and how your site makes them _better_.

5\. Figure out _where_ those people hang out. In your case it's here on HN,
Product Hunt, certain Reddit sub-reddits, Slack groups, etc... Find those
communities, join, and share your story (you're actually doing a good job in
this thread already). Look for ways you can answer questions on the topic of
startup revenue, and point people to your site when appropriate.

These 5 initial steps form the foundation for everything that comes after.

If you understand: _your motivation_ , _the people you 're looking to help_,
_how you 're helping them_, and _where_ they hang out, you'll have everything
you need to start promoting your project.

~~~
rafapaez
Hey Justin! Thank you very much for your time on writing this great comment.
You made a good point here so I'm going to follow your advice around those
tips.

At the moment, the only thing I know for sure is _WHY_ I'm building it.
Curiously, I did read some time ago your excellent post about the "The freedom
ladder"
([https://justinjackson.ca/freedom/](https://justinjackson.ca/freedom/)). I
realised I needed to startup from the bottom. I'd say I'm in the 2nd or 3rd
step of the freedom ladder, so I aim to: Make a small project, Release for
free, Help people and Build my audience. Obviously, it would be nice to get
some revenue later, so I can dedicate my full time to help others with my
project, but that's not a priority for me at the moment.

I'll continue working not defining those points. I'll also definitely check
your book and related new interactive course.

Great thanks!

Rafa

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huwshimi
I have been in exactly the same position a number of times over the years. One
day I realised that the reason I gave up promoting them is that I never really
knew how my marketing efforts were doing so it always felt a bit futile.

This actually inspired my current project, which is all about measuring the
results of your marketing
([http://flockmetrics.com](http://flockmetrics.com)).

I think several things are helpful here. Understanding the key benefits of
your product and figuring out who will most benefit from those features.

Once you know that you need to figure out how to explain your product in a way
that those people can understand how it helps them and then you need to find
those people.

I personally have found once I've been through that process and can see that I
have a product that will make peoples lives easier it motives me to want to
get the product to those people.

~~~
jazoom
It's sad their pricing model punishes you getting more users so harshly. It's
quite expensive for only 1000 new users.

~~~
huwshimi
The pricing is based on the number of signups per month, so that's 1000 new
users per month. Do you feel like that pricing wouldn't work for your
situation?

~~~
jazoom
Maybe it would be worth it for startups with a pricing model similar to yours
where each signup provides large revenue, but for a startup that has a very
low value per user and needs to have large growth it is not worth it.

~~~
huwshimi
Yeah, that's interesting. As you say, the pricing was based on looking at the
numbers of signups per month for SaaS startups.

How to make that work for non SaaS startups, I'm not yet sure.

~~~
jazoom
You would need a totally different pricing strategy, but whether that's a
smart business move is up to you to decide.

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fuqted
Everyone knows SPI likely has BS numbers made from very creative accounting. I
wouldn't doubt that, that's the case with many of them. I'd be interested to
know how much they actually make. I think that this type of thing - going
beyond superficial aggregation or testing - would keep your traffic there.

Anyway Nathan Barry, the founder of an email marketing company Convert Kit - a
company on your list, says it pretty well: the best way to drive traffic to
your products is to first drive traffic to yourself.

[https://vimeo.com/95680313](https://vimeo.com/95680313) \- A talk by Nathan
Barry (Check out that Vimeo account for more talks from founders)

Driving traffic to yourself is typically done with content marketing. Here's a
podcast from Empire Flippers - a company on your list - interviewing the
founder of another company on the list, WP Curve.
[https://empireflippers.com/wpcurve/](https://empireflippers.com/wpcurve/)
(Note that podcasting and blogging is Empire Flippers' form of content
marketing, and a big reason why they're as big as they are)

And here's an in depth guide by Neil Patel [https://www.quicksprout.com/the-
advanced-guide-to-content-ma...](https://www.quicksprout.com/the-advanced-
guide-to-content-marketing/) (Quicksprout, which seems to be an umbrella
company for niche sites, also looks like it has transparent revenue btw)

In closing, I'll reiterate that it's probably most important that, like Y
Combinator itself says, you build something that people want.

You can shoot me an email if you want. I'm a willing wall to bounce ideas off
of. ryanacalvo /at/ gmail

~~~
rafapaez
Hey, thanks for the great info. This is my main focus right, build something
that people love. So far the response from the audience about the idea is
being great but I really need to grow this audience and spread the word,
otherwise my free/social model is not going to work.

Btw, I realised this kind of content marketing is very popular nowadays, for
example today I was reading this post ([https://beanninjas.com/blog/how-dan-
norris-built-a-7-figure-...](https://beanninjas.com/blog/how-dan-norris-
built-a-7-figure-wordpress-productized-service-business-in-18-months-with-
zero-advertising/)) which is from a Transparent Startup talking about another
one, yeah, interestingly both are featured on TransparentStartups.com

~~~
fuqted
An interview with Dan is in the second link I gave.

Dan Norris, the Bean Ninjas team and the Empire Flippers guys are all part of
a mastermind called the Dynamite Circle - which was created by these guys:
[http://www.tropicalmba.com/profitable-niche-selection-rip-
pi...](http://www.tropicalmba.com/profitable-niche-selection-rip-pivot-jam-
redux/) (Link as an episode on niche selection. They have over 300 podcast
episodes).

What is your target market with TSps? Where is the monetization? Why can't you
login with google? What are you sending them weekly?

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oldmancoyote
Devise a way to find someone to do it for you, someone who knows what he is
doing. Don't try to do marketing yourself. Yes, you could probably do it if
you worked hard enough and long enough, but the same could be said of open
heart surgery. It's not an efficient way to do things.

~~~
rafapaez
It makes sense. I'm learning a lot doing it myself and I'm actually getting
some contacts / networking. However sometimes I feel like I not advancing with
my project development as quick as I should because I spend most of my time
hooked on reaching people (on Twitter, HN, PH, Reddit, etc.).

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tedmiston
Transparent Startups looks awesome.

One way is to build projects for an audience that you either know or can
reach. That might be something local in your city, HN, etc.

Another thing to consider is what your goal is — do you want regular users,
paid users, newsletter signups, just feedback, etc?

There's also a regularly recommended book called Traction [1] that you might
find useful. One of the authors is the founder of DuckDuckGo.

[1]: [http://tractionbook.com/](http://tractionbook.com/)

~~~
rafapaez
Thanks for your comment. I'd love to have regular engaged users - that will
keep me motivated to continue with project. Revenue might come later. I've
added this book into my reading queue.

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stevekemp
Notice how in the replies many people said "I built a site .."? One of the
ways that you promote your site is by talking about it everywhere, especially
on posts like this.

Of course I'm not advocating spamming forums, or message-boards, but if you
find any topic or group which is relevant to your (potential) users you do
need to mention it.

As a concrete example if you're ever needing easy to update DNS hosting you
might enjoy _my_ site too [https://dns-api.com/](https://dns-api.com/) ;)

------
kamillarott
Nice post. I would add that for engineers to become true marketers, if they
want to, it does require some non-trivial mindset shifts
[http://myessayshelp.org/](http://myessayshelp.org/)

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recmend
My side project Nucleus Digest
[https://digest.meetnucleus.com](https://digest.meetnucleus.com) index of
great startup articles.

I promoted on Product Hunt, HN, Relevant Subreddits.

Ongoing: publish content on twitter, point resources to HN, Reddit, GH
community questions etc.

~~~
rafapaez
I recently managed to get a "successful" (> 500 votes) launch on ProductHunt
as well. Got a few feedback and seems people loved the idea.

However I feel I need constantly keep posting and commenting everywhere about
the site to keep the momentum and some visits.

BTW, I like your Nucleus Digest project. Nice work!

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NetStrikeForce
I've found a person that's good at teaching and we're doing weekly classes. It
might not make me a marketing guru, but surely will increase my ability to
hire good marketing freelancers.

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Gustomaximus
I feel the comments that you need to hire or partner make sense. If the latter
you might feel you are giving a chunk of the business away but if you are
walking away anyway you're already loosing 100%.

Most importantly you should find a good marketer. Like anyhting there is a
buch of snake oil being sold in marketing expertise and ability. I wrote up
these points previously for what I've found as a marketer finding/actuating
good people;

1) Look for someone that has experience working big and small companies. Big
brands will train comms, project management, procedure and how to think at
scale. Small brands give the 'getting it done' skills, generalist experience
and show they can get technical/dirty hands. Larger brand experience typically
looks more impressive but often work has been project management for agencies
and doesnt suit hands on efforts or creativity. Likewise if you're business is
big enough to run agencies if someone has always been hands on they often
struggle as project managers and understanding how to communicate needs in a
way that translates well downstream.

2) Dig into exact contributions for past roles. Ask for logic that lead to
decisions. Often marketers talk about great campaigns results but really they
were a body in a room with little input. Dig for detail and motivations to
decisions and you will find out who is who.

3) Look for initiative with intelligence. Many solid looking marketeers repeat
what is always done, optimising here and there. That suits some roles and
businesses. There's an unrecognised value in the solid citizen employee. But
for smaller business looking for exceptional results you need someone who will
see the world independently of the current enviroment. This is someone that
will deliver results vs turn wheels for the sake of it. Ensure they have this
ability to spot entirely new oppurtunity and deliver on it.

4) Experience counts. It's easy to be attracted to enthusuasm but
confidence/enthusiasm and ability are often confused. Look for someone that
has done things. When looking at people with higher level expereince ensure
they can get thier hands dirty. Make sure they have the ability to learn and
adapt vs puely strategise.

5) Don't go cheap. I often see startups advertising low paid roles a couple
years experience, while they pay for experienced developers. Half the price
sounds great but they will bring a fraction of the value.

6) Find someone that can analyse data vs report it. There's a big difference
in the 2 and the former is surprisingly rare.

7) Avoid anyone that shows narcissistic tendency or is generally 'me' focused.
This personality tends to be bad comms people (especially with social) as they
see the world from their POV, not the customers. Also your risking a tough
working enviroment. Look for things like how they delivered on a job they felt
was wrong or lacked value as well as the usual egocentric viewpoints when they
discuss marketing examples.

8) Look for someone that lives marketing beyond thier job. A person that can
talk about companies beyond their own and has interest in the wider industry
and technologies vs focusing only on thier job.

9) Dont stress about direct inductry experience. Unless there is incredibly
niche market knowedge or contacts needed a good marketer will be good
regardless of product.

10) Sales and marketing are not the same thing. Know what you need. They dont
often come all-in-one.

11) While not an absolute I usually check linkedin contacts to skill
endorsements ratio. Typically this ratio is higher for the people I know are
good marketers. I wouldn't make my decision by this but is seems one of those
soft indicators.

12) When you interview give a 10min exercise before to discuss and cover up
real-time actual skills. E.g. show them some relevant to role campaign
materials (e.g. landing pages/EDM's) and ask them how they would improve. Ask
them what they would do with $50k. Typically I add in some spelling/grammar
mistakes to also look for attention to detail as it tends to be a 'you have it
or you dont' skill (like initiative) and not something you can train up.

Once onboard;

13) Give marketers product input. They should have their finger on the
customer pulse and valuable views on what sell/motivates users. Dont let tech
side shut out marketing.

14) Make sure they have a budget. This goes well with the above point.
Generally I'd say a 10-20x marketing salary would be a good rule of spend if
bringing a permanent marketing role in.

...hope that's useful...

~~~
rafapaez
Hey. Many thanks for writing this great comment. I'm in that point where I'm
still validating the idea while keep building the basis of the product. Once I
feel I have a good product that I can monetise, I'd go for your advice of
hiring or partner with someone experienced in marketing. Will definitely
follow those tips!

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edpichler
It depends on each case. On my case, I send email messages for possible
customers, one by one. The conversion is really high.

