
Mediachain enivisions a blockchain-based tool for identifying artists’ work - jrbedard
http://techcrunch.com/2016/06/01/mediachain-enivisions-a-blockchain-based-tool-for-identifying-artists-work-across-the-internet/
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CPLX
> Imagine being able to connect with the artist of a viral GIF you see in your
> feed, learn the history or origin of any image, or automatically reward a
> musician whenever you press play.

OK, I've gone and imagined it. I'm not entirely convinced that any appreciable
number of people actually want to do these things though.

Is this a clever application of a trendy technology creating a solution that's
searching for a problem? What are the real life _business model_ use cases for
such a tool?

~~~
denisnazarov
Our goal is to make the monetization of media follow the content, instead of
flowing from the platform like it does today.

Today, Mediachain can automatically link an image to who made it. That same
channel can be used to transfer value directly through content in the future.
We believe that this will create a huge opportunity for developers to build
new media applications that reward creators directly through their content, no
matter where it is.

~~~
Kalium
And what's the utility to end-users, who just want to share a cute picture of
a cat, that they should care? And thus that a media host should care to
implement this?

~~~
thatcat
Perhaps the media host would receive less DRM take downs and a more accurate
'relevant content' prediction model since the true origin of content is
confirmed.

~~~
Kalium
Given that DRM takedowns are already not meaningfully linked to accuracy or
relevance, it seems unlikely that Mediachain will change that.

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denisnazarov
Hey HN, I'm Denis, one of the creators of Mediachain. Happy to answer any
questions!

This Co.Design article does a great job of explaining how Mediachain helps
creators: [http://www.fastcodesign.com/3060426/could-blockchains-
solve-...](http://www.fastcodesign.com/3060426/could-blockchains-solve-the-
webs-image-attribution-problem)

Here is our official fundraising announcement with more details:
[https://blog.mediachain.io/mediachain-labs-funded-by-
union-s...](https://blog.mediachain.io/mediachain-labs-funded-by-union-square-
ventures-andreessen-horowitz-to-build-a-universal-open-337ee690f61b)

~~~
paavokoya
Hey Denis, What differentiates your company from the hundreds of other
"blockchain-based" identity companies that do almost the same thing?

I've seen _a lot_ of companies throwing around these exact buzzwords and fancy
landing pages for 5 years now and most just seem to be raking in VC funding
while fading into obscurity a year later.

There's a list if you scroll down on this link:
[http://www.blockchaintechnologies.com/blockchain-
companies](http://www.blockchaintechnologies.com/blockchain-companies)

~~~
denisnazarov
We're creating a completely open, decentralized media library and our goal is
to help creators reach their audience directly through their content.

We believe that value should follow the content, instead of flowing from a
platform.

Today, Mediachain helps preserve attribution for creative works wherever they
go, so you can know the creator of that anonymous viral image you see in your
feed.

In the future the same infrastructure will enable financial exchange directly
between a creator and their audience through their works.

We've written some more about the implications of Mediachain here:
[https://blog.mediachain.io/the-gif-that-fell-to-earth-
eae706...](https://blog.mediachain.io/the-gif-that-fell-to-earth-eae706c72f1f)
[https://blog.mediachain.io/what-a-blockchain-for-music-
reall...](https://blog.mediachain.io/what-a-blockchain-for-music-really-
means-e2f8dc66d57d#.y4xge49cc)

~~~
paavokoya
So it's on "IPFS" so I'd need to buy into the "filecoin" scam which is going
on? Why not just use bitcoin?

~~~
kefka
Right now, filecoin is only a whitepaper. There's no implementation yet.
Possibly never.

Now, Filecoin seems to, from the whitepaper, gotten it right. We all know of
the tragedy of the commons. Their solution was an elegant way around that, by
granting filecoin to whom share their bandwidth and local storage. And then,
others will take your coin for duplicating files you want copied.

But right now, it doesnt exist. And IPFS still works flawlessly.

~~~
paavokoya
> by granting filecoin to whom share their bandwidth and local storage

This is what every blockchain does.. (lottery mining)

>But right now, it doesnt exist. And IPFS still works flawlessly

Reading the IPFS website, I was under the impression IPFS nodes were utilizing
filecoin. My bad.

~~~
parkan
Filecoin is one of several proposed approaches for encouraging seeding
("pinning") in the IPFS network. In our network (Mediachain), we will probably
start out by using tit-for-tat pinning between peers for this purpose.

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duncancarroll
It's a great idea with a lot of utility, but my question is: How does dispute
resolution work? I.e. How do you prevent bad actors from beating the original
artist to the punch, and registering someone else's artwork as theirs on the
blockchain?

~~~
denisnazarov
The short answer is reputation. Consumers of the data should be able to filter
by cryptographic signature to prioritize users that have more reputation over
ones that don't. A timestamp is just one piece of metadata.

For example, on a platform like Soundcloud there are many Rhiannas but it is
obvious which account the "real" Rihanna is because she has the most
followers, likes, etc. Popularity can be another data point.

Projects like Blockstack already offer solutions that take a similar approach,
allowing you to link your social media accounts so your identity is more
trustable.

We also envision developers and trusted organizations like Creative Commons or
DPLA creating indexes on top of Mediachain to help users filter the data.

~~~
dublinben
Reputation is not as easy to measure as simple popularity. There are very many
"content creators" like LadBible who are orders of magnitude more popular than
the actual content creators they steal from.

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luk3thomas
What happens if someone crops and scrubs the metadata of the original image
and then shares it? Can mediachain identify the original source of the new
image?

~~~
denisnazarov
Any metadata that is stored in EXIF or part of the file can be easily stripped
out. This is why Mediachain uses perceptual recognition technology similar to
Shazam or Google Image search to identify media based on how it looks or
sounds, automatically resolving to metadata stored in Mediachain. Near
duplicate image detection is quite far along and works very well even for
images that are cropped, distorted, etc.

More on our approach in this post: [https://blog.mediachain.io/perceptual-
resolution-9c00ad5ca55...](https://blog.mediachain.io/perceptual-
resolution-9c00ad5ca555?source=latest)

Details on the implementation in this RFC:
[https://github.com/mediachain/mediachain/blob/master/rfc/med...](https://github.com/mediachain/mediachain/blob/master/rfc/mediachain-
rfc-3.md)

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bmcusick
How does your perceptual recognition technology distinguish piracy from Fair
Use? Given the impossibility of knowing with certainty which jurisdiction the
end user is in, which Copyright scheme are you assuming? Can works be
registered as Public Domain or as subject to a permissive license such as
Creative Commons?

This sounds like you're making an Internet-scale DRM scheme. What precautions
are taking to protect people from creators trying to take more than copyright
provides?

~~~
denisnazarov
The goal of Mediachain isn't to enforce scarcity of media online, but to help
creators benefit from the scale of sharing. Today, an image can easily go
viral without viewers knowing who the author was. Mediachain makes sure that
the creator can be present wherever the content goes, automatically.

Our view is that bits are easily reproduced and there is no way to stop that,
and until now there's been no easy way for creators to benefit from that.
Mediachain allows creators to connect directly to their audiences through the
content itself. This way, gratitude can be exchanged through attribution, and
in the future, even a payment directly through the content.

------
sandworm101
Ok. How about
this:[http://i.imgur.com/heXkHzU.png](http://i.imgur.com/heXkHzU.png)

It's a partial screenshot of the article in my browser. I intend to use it in
a lecture as an example of the complications behind fair use. (irl I really do
teach such a lecture). Who is it attributable to? The artist of the drawing,
me, techcrunch or mediachain?

In short: I am suspicious of any service, and there have been a few, that
claims to be able to identify the owner or creator of a work. It's a layering
problem, with nearly every digital image being at some level the property of a
great many people.

(fyi: if this was a law exam, the best answer is "me" in that I created the
composition and am well-covered by fair use in my use of it here.)

~~~
parkan
Declaring ownership and provenance with complete certainty is very hard, which
is why we don't profess to do it. Our approach is to nondestructively
aggregate potentially conflicting claims and allow for more nuanced resolution
at read time, as appropriate for a given situation. In your particular
example, we would have a chain of derivative works.

Obviously, in certain cases (payment routing) a definitive answer is required,
but this is already something that PROs and similar organizations deal with on
a daily basis, and we can support their arbitration.

~~~
sandworm101
If you plan on linking money to content, you better have a really definitive
answer. That movement of money is essentially the purchase of a license. If a
business or individual relies on your answer as to who that license should be
purchased from, they do not want to be hit with a copyright complaint should
the real owner appear. And if people end up abusing your system to monetize
content that they should not, expect all sorts of legal docs in the mail.

~~~
parkan
Absolutely! Spotify's 30M settlement with NMPA is a great example of this kind
of failure in existing systems

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untilHellbanned
NYC-based Monegraph anyone?

