
The Startup Side Project Bubble - dh
http://davidhauser.com/post/47457211343/the-startup-side-project-bubble
======
api
A major reason that people do only what's required to get by in their "day
job" and tool away on startups is that the promotion is dead. You don't
advance in the workplace by any means except changing jobs or doing your own
thing. Companies don't promote on merit anymore. So if you pour your heart
into your job, you get nothing for it. You're better off pouring your heart
into side projects-- even if they don't turn into actual businesses, they act
as portfolio projects that might help you to make that next hop between jobs
with an accompanying raise.

The MBAs have made this bed via all this "money doesn't really motivate
people, here's how to hack motivation..." BS, and now they have to lie in it.
If they want employees' full attention, they have to compensate it. People
have to have a stake-- either stock or the _real_ possibility of a
_meaningful_ promotion. You get what you pay for.

~~~
mindcrime
_A major reason that people do only what's required to get by in their "day
job" and tool away on startups is that the promotion is dead. You don't
advance in the workplace by any means except changing jobs or doing your own
thing. Companies don't promote on merit anymore. So if you pour your heart
into your job, you get nothing for it. You're better off pouring your heart
into side projects_

Bingo! What's the point in going "above and beyond the call of duty" for a
dayjob employer, when they aren't going to recognize you for it, compensate
you for it, or acknowledge it in any way? Of course, this isn't true of _all_
employers. Sometimes people do get recognized and compensated for merit... see
the recent post about the guy at Google who got $100MM. But most people know
if they work for a company where merit is rewarded or not. And if you don't
work in one of those, and you have some ambition, the rational choice is to
work on a startup.

~~~
GFischer
I agree with both api and mindcrime - and I did an MBA in Tech.

Although I'm sure there are several companies that do incentivize correctly -
there's a growing awareness of creating an "intrapreneur" spirit and
opportunities, though in most companies it's just that - empty talk.

------
mindcrime
I'm sorry, but this whole article is based on a completely unfounded premise -
that being the premise that you're not "committed" to your startup unless
you've quit your dayjob and are working on the startup fulltime. But there's
no basis for asserting that, and it is - quite simply - not true.

It's not "shooting yourself in the foot" to work on a startup while working a
dayjob, it's called "funding your startup with your dayjob salary". And if you
don't have a pile of capital just lying around waiting to be spent, or aren't
(interested in|willing to|able to) raise outside capital, it's essentially
your only choice.

And why exactly should I care about "stringing along my present employer"? I
show up, do the work I'm asked to do, and they pay me some amount in return.
What I do on my time is my business.. If my performance drops, they are
welcome to fire me. If anything, this should be seen as a call for employers
to recognize their entrepreneurial minded employees and find a way to leverage
their talent to do something entrepreneurial _within_ that firm. Better yet,
invest in the employees startup and tell them to get out and work on it
fulltime. Now that's a win-win for everybody.

But don't think you get to call who is or isn't a "real entrepreneur" based on
who has or hasn't quit their dayjob. If anything, the folks doing it "the hard
way" deserve more respect and recognition than the people running around
acting like raising a round was an end unto itself, and who seem to think that
the point of a startup is to raise money (as opposed to making money).

~~~
dh
You are missing the point, I am not saying you should raise money. I
bootstrapped my company and am very proud of it.

It is hard to argue that spending 40+ hours in a week on something other than
you startup shows you are committed to your startup. You are committed to
making money and then working on your startup.

I have personally invested in many employee's startups but that does not
change the fact that trying to do both is a distraction that does not serve
you or your job.

~~~
mindcrime
I don't think "commitment" means what you think it does. I could not possibly
be more committed to the startup I'm working on now... it's basically my life.
If I were married, I'd be less committed to my wife than to this startup
(which may be a reason I'm _not_ married, now that I think about it).

But, realistically, I don't have the capital reserves to just quit, and work
on it full-time, so that simply is not an option. No amount of philosophizing,
or Monday morning quarterbacking or commentary from the peanut gallery can
change that. But if anybody thinks I'm not committed to this, I have two words
for them...

 _I am not saying you should raise money. I bootstrapped my company and am
very proud of it._

And if you aren't sitting on a big pile of capital already, you have two
choices: Go out and raise a round, or fund via your salary. And going out and
raising money has a lot of disadvantages, not the least of which is that every
minute you spend chasing investors is a minute you're _not_ working on the
product, talking to customers, doing market research, writing marketing
content, looking for partners and affiliates, or any of a zillion other things
you could be doing to advance your cause.

 _It is hard to argue that spending 40+ hours in a week on something other
than you startup shows you are committed to your startup. You are committed to
making money and then working on your startup._

First of all, I don't _need_ to "show" anybody that I'm committed to my
startup. All this back and forth banter is amusing, but in the end, the only
opinions that matter are those of myself and my cofounder, and the people we
are selling to.

And who are you to tell somebody else what they are committed to? Fuck that...
I'm committed to paying my rent, and putting food on the table, just because
those are prerequisites to everything else. Beyond that, my dayjob salary is
just seed funding for the startup.

------
yumraj
Of all the things that can be called to be in a bubble, I think this one is
the most ridiculous one. What does it even mean to call it a side project
bubble? Is it going to burst at some point, I _really_ hope not.

Even if we agree that a lot more people are working on side projects, instead
of calling it a bubble, which has negative connotation, what we should be
looking at the positive side that more and more people are taking the first
step and recognizing that they don't necessarily have to just keep working for
an employer and are at least trying to create something of their own. The
tools and technology have become more accessible, be it cloud or even 3D
printing, and will become more accessible in future which will motivate even
more people. The whole Maker scene is another such. People used to have
different hobbies, now a lot of that energy is channeled into side projects.

We should be celebrating this, rather than call it a bubble.

------
billN
I disagree with most of the points.

1\. People usually start a side project because they are unhappy at work. If
they are unhappy, they are unlikely already giving their best

2\. On another note, a side project often gives your a great deal of
satisfaction, accomplishment, control and responsibilities that you wouldn't
get in your daily job. This balances your morale and will make you perform
better both at your daily job and at your side project

3\. I worked on a number of side projects in the past. Some successful, some
not. But in ALL of them the learning was priceless. I didn't start side
projects because I wanted to start a business and go all-in. I did start them
because I wanted to learn things that spaced beyond my daily tasks at work.
And it worked brilliantly.

Also, if you've a mortgage to pay and a family to maintain, you have some
responsibilities that make the "go all in" move quite a big risk. And I do
believe it is possible to start a business starting as a side project first -
it just takes much more time and energy and, most of all, patience.

~~~
dh
I find it hard to believe that everyone starting a side project is unhappy at
work, I don't think the 2 are related. If you are unhappy at work you should
leave.

I am all for doing stuff on the side so as not to get bored, to learn and 50
other things but then let's not call it a startup and a business. An
entrepreneur takes calibrated risks and makes things happen when others can't
or won't.

~~~
ry0ohki
I find the converse hard to believe, why would someone who is happy at work
create a side project (unless they are just a tinkerer or are scratching a
personal itch)?

~~~
jdbernard
You just listed two reasons that arguably apply to most hackers. 90% of my
career I have been happy at work, but I have always had multiple side projects
going on as well.

~~~
ry0ohki
Agree, but the author's point was you shouldn't work on a side project unless
it's a "real business".

------
jtbigwoo
I can't agree with any of this article.

>> It’s a problem because side projects create a talent bubble of people who
aren’t fully engaged and are just doing enough at their "real" or full-time
job to get by until their startup is up and running. This means their
productivity suffers at their full-time job, an expense the employer ends up
paying. The side project owners justify it by assuming it will only be for a
short period of time.

Here's a surprising fact: almost no one is "fully engaged" at work. They're
thinking about camping or football or shopping. We don't owe our employers
anything but our time and productivity. At least if my coworker is working on
a side project I know she's learning things that will make her better at her
job.

>> And actually, we need to be honest. Not everyone is an entrepreneur. Part
of being one is accepting the risk of starting your own company and taking the
leap to be committed full time. It’s not good for startups or for companies to
have employees that are partially engaged in both and committed to neither.

Because side projects never succeed and full time startups never fail. (Dell,
Craigslist, Bingo Card Creator, Twitter, and Facebook.)

>> Here’s a quick tip: there are plenty of those already. If you do want to
start a company, work on building a real business, not a side idea that’s
hoping to be the next Twitter/Facebook/Instagram combination or a better
version of Basecamp.

Says the guy whose companies include another Survey Monkey and yet another
credit card payment app. (Note: Chargify is a good product, but it's in a
crowded market.) Plus, Basecamp is nice, but it's not ideal for all kinds of
projects. I'd be very happy if somebody made a new Basecamp that did a better
job with software projects.

~~~
dh
Take a look at when Chargify was started and if the market was crowded then

~~~
jtbigwoo
Paypal was already a mature product back then. Literally every major bank
already offered custom-branded payment pages and an API to process credit card
payments. Why would you bother to build Chargify to offer custom-branded
payment pages and an API to process credit card payments?

Well, because Chargify is miles better than Paypal and banks. Maybe that guy
next to me has a face-tweet-o-base idea that's miles better, too.

------
jperras
> "It’s a problem because side projects create a talent bubble of people who
> aren’t fully engaged and are just doing enough at their “real” or full-time
> job"

I'm sorry, but where was the part in my employment contract where I was
required to live and breathe work every minute of my life?

If you're an employee with no stocks or shares, then doing "just enough" of
your job is exactly what you're being paid to do. Do more if you like, but
going the extra mile isn't a requirement.

Also, some people enjoy working on side projects because they're _fun_ , and
not because they dream of being an entrepreneur.

(Edit: formatting)

------
mnicole
I don't understand this article in the least. The idea that people shouldn't
be doing things they want to do on their own time, that you'd rather say "be
honest, not everyone is an entrepreneur," than let people explore their
potential themselves.. the whole thing is offensive and depressing.

For a lot of my friends, side projects are the only thing keeping their
passion for programming alive. You say below "If you're not happy with your
job, just quit," as if it's easy for people to up and leave the position
they're in. Not everyone lives in a tech hotspot and not everyone actually
wants to or can just up and leave their roles. A lot of these side projects
are explicitly being worked on so that they can get more up-to-speed with
certain technologies with the intent to apply for something more satisfying to
begin with. And if there wasn't value in side projects, companies wouldn't
have any reason to "own" what you work on outside of your 9-5.

If you're not getting value from your employee because they're distracted or
they don't have the faith or enthusiasm they used to, that's on you to sit
them down and talk to them about it and maybe figure out a way to compromise;
telling someone they can't spend time on their hobbies anymore is a petty
response that doesn't look at the real issue at hand. Perhaps the problem
really lies in your camp, not theirs. If you're so concerned your developers
are going to up and leave to work on their own dream, you need to incentivize
them more. Or, you know, get over it and realize that's business and people
have other ambitions outside of your own and there's no reason that they
should have to stick around to fulfill them, especially if this is the
attitude you have towards the types of things that keep them motivated. If
you're really concerned about not being able to create your product because
your devs are going to bail to do what they ultimately want to do in their
life, perhaps you should become one yourself instead of telling them how they
can and cannot live their lives outside of your payroll.

------
rocky1138
"This means their productivity suffers at their full-time job, an expense the
employer ends up paying."

Incorrect. My side projects have made me a better developer in every way,
which actually saves my employers money over the long-term. I learn new
techniques, skills, and tools off-the-clock. The kind of training that used to
be the responsibility of the employer is now on the employee.

~~~
mead5432
Agreed. I had a side project that ended up driving adoption of several
applications that had components from the project that saved the company over
$100k per year in employee costs by automating things that were previously
very manual.

------
dasil003
This article is awfully preachy for just being a flimsy tower of assumptions.
It sort of seems like a way to draw an arbitrary line that frames the author
as a real entrepreneur frustrated by floating in a sea of posers.

~~~
mindcrime
_It sort of seems like a way to draw an arbitrary line that frames the author
as a real entrepreneur frustrated by floating in a sea of posers._

Not just that, but the tone is downright condescending and demeaning towards
"side project" people. I mean,

" _But don’t shoot yourself in the foot by stringing your employer along and
delaying the leap to becoming a full-time entrepreneur. The choice is yours,
but too many people are making the wrong one. I hope you have what it takes to
commit and become a real entrepreneur._ "

Really? C'mon man... Who died and appointed you supreme judge and arbiter of
all things entrepreneurial? We need your approval to call ourselves
entrepreneurs? Right... good luck with that.

------
mindcrime
This really ruffles my feathers as well:

 _Unless there are real consequences for failure—until you’ve personally
guaranteed a line of credit and tried to sell your product to an actual human
being,’ says Ruhe, you won’t have the motivation needed to build a business
that matters_ \-- Thom Ruhe, VP of Entrepreneurship at the Kauffman Foundation

Now, I don't know who Thom Ruhe is, and I don't really care. But what I know
is that this armchair quarterback with his fancy title, working for some
foundation somewhere, knows bloody fucking bugger-all about my motivation, or
lack thereof. You want to talk to me about motivation, dude? Quit your job at
the Kauffman Foundation and come work with us. We offer no pay, no benefits
(not even free coffee), long hours, sleepless nights, stress beyond belief,
non-stop fear of failure, and an equity stake that could make you really
wealthy if we succeed. Would you be motivated to take that swap, in order to
gain the satisfaction of doing your own thing, the freedom of not having a
"boss" and the sense of accomplishment that goes into building something? No?
Well, guess what... we are. So unless you want to take me up on my offer,
don't fucking talk to me about motivation.

------
gregors
In my experience the people who have side start ups are the ones who are twice
as productive at work. Most people don't give a shit about their jobs.

~~~
jonathanjaeger
I was going to write this. You beat me to it, thanks.

------
studiofellow
I'm disappointed that instead of trying to educate new entrepreneurs, the OP
is discouraging them. The tone is incredibly condescending.

It's like he just heard of bootstrappers, and instead of saying, "Hey that's
awesome, let me tell you what I've learned," he says "You'll never be one of
us real entrepreneurs. Want a job?"

------
drewtemp
Side projects are a great way to improve your knowledge of a language or learn
a new language. Creating a number of side projects, most of them fit under
this category. Each project has furthered my knowledge of a language,
framework, or best practices.

From my experience, developing a project (regardless of scale) is a better
form of learning than reading about it. You get instant gratification when you
see your project render/compile without error. You're learning in real time,
seeing your project work, and learning from trial and error.

Having a side project doesn't imply you're trying to create a startup. What
happened to just creating for fun/enjoyment? Reconstruct your sandbox and
play.

------
veritas20
There are several companies that started off as side projects across an array
of industries: apple, spanx, and buffer for example.

The diluted talent pool is not because of part-time entreprenuers. Based on
your logic, they wouldn't leave their job anyway. It's because of over funded
full-time entreprenuers.

And since you mentioned basecamp, here's what employee #1 of 37 Signals thinks
of the topic: [http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1764-the-natural-evolution-
fr...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1764-the-natural-evolution-from-side-
project-to-full-time-business)

~~~
mindcrime
_And since you mentioned basecamp, here's what employee #1 of 37 Signals
thinks of the topic:[http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1764-the-natural-
evolution-fr...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1764-the-natural-evolution-
from-side-project-to-full-time-business*)

I could not agree more fully with this. This bit here really sums it all up in
my opinion:

_But the idea that you need to quit your job to do it right is misguided. If
you quit your job, you shift everything. You don’t gain time, you lose it. You
put a shot clock on your business. You box yourself into a position where you
have to profit immediately or the whole thing goes under. You’ve got to make
it work now or give up forever.*

 _Hanging on to your day job gives you a longer period of time to build your
idea. It lets you give a sustained effort over time. There’s no get rich quick
option. You build it slowly, one day at a time._

 _Yes, you need to find time to do both your side business and your normal
gig. But there’s always enough time if you spend it right. Instead of watching
TV or playing Grand Theft Auto, work on your idea. Instead of going to bed at
10, go to bed at 11._

That's exactly it... at Fogbeam Labs we're not trying to get rich quickly, but
as long as the founders have dayjobs and we keep our burn rate low, we have -
essentially - an indefinitely long runway. This gives us more time to
experiment, learn, and iterate, without having to panic in fear of having to
shut the whole thing down, if the first few experiments don't go the way we
expected.

I keep thinking about what pg said in the "How not to die" essay:

<http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html>

 _If you can just avoid dying, you get rich. That sounds like a joke, but it's
actually a pretty good description of what happens in a typical startup. It
certainly describes what happened in Viaweb. We avoided dying till we got
rich._

and

 _When startups die, the official cause of death is always either running out
of money or a critical founder bailing. Often the two occur simultaneously.
But I think the underlying cause is usually that they've become demoralized.
You rarely hear of a startup that's working around the clock doing deals and
pumping out new features, and dies because they can't pay their bills and
their ISP unplugs their server._

That's our mindset... as long as we can keep going, we will eventually "break
through" and make it.

------
scott_meade
The article didn't make it clear how a side-project is any different than
other of life's projects and distractions: family, sports, that home
remodeling project.

If an employee's productivity at their day job is not acceptable, then
hopefully the employee no longer has a job there.

------
tpetrina
This article is a little bit one sided. So what if most side projects never
succeed? You can always learn a lot by attempting to do a large scale project
yourself. Most real-life projects are large scale legacy projects that you are
simply thrown into. Most likely you don't even care about them nor you can
make any sort of decisions.

By doing side projects you are being creative. You learn new stuff. You
actually care about your project. You also have to do everything yourself,
including planning. Where else would you get such experience?

And the net result is that you learn new stuff in your side projects,
something your employer gets for free. Your passion will pay off, eventually.
It is nearsighted to assume that just because you "waste" time on side
projects you are hurting you employer.

You hurt them more by simply not caring enough about the technology nor the
project.

------
roskilli
I agree with the article to some extent, however I do feel like a lot of
people find if they don't have something to tinker with on the side get
incredibly bored. I know I like many others need variety in the types of
stimuli I find in my work/development/entrepreneurial pursuits and I think
this is perfectly healthy.

Once you start stringing along your employer, just pushing buttons and not
giving them some of your best work hours - then yes I agree it is frustrating,
but I don't believe this is the case with the majority of engineers/others who
work on side projects. Surely people doing this are the minority and can
receive stern talks and/or let go if they are really not worth their salary?

~~~
mindcrime
_Once you start stringing along your employer, just pushing buttons and not
giving them some of your best work hours - then yes I agree it is frustrating,
but I don't believe this is the case with the majority of engineers/others who
work on side projects._

Oh, that definitely happens. I've been there. What I question is whether or
not it's a big deal, like the author of TFA seems to think. He seems to have
some pretty weird ideas about things. Like, the idea that you're not committed
to your startup if you aren't working on it full-time? WTF? How does that even
start to make sense? Are you not committed to your wife if you don't spend 24
hours a day, 7 day a week with her? Are you not committed to your kids if you
leave them for a few hours a day to go to work? Sheesh... commitment and time
allocation are not the same thing!

And as for the effect on the present dayjob employer... who cares? As you say
"(they) can receive stern talks and/or let go if they are really not worth
their salary?" Yes, exactly. I've been there before. And you know what? It was
a shittily run company, pumping out a shitty product, none of the other
engineers were even slightly engaged or interested in what we were doing, and
every single one of us was just punching the clock and collecting our
paychecks. That I was working on a startup on the side is what kept me sane
through all that. I don't feel even a pinch guilty that I reserved most of my
mental and creative energy for the startup during that time. I did what they
paid me to do, and if they had wanted more, they had the option to attempt to
find a way to tap into the energy and drive I'm able to channel into something
that actually matters. But they never took any initiative to try and connect
with or understand their employees, so "tough shit" as far as I'm concerned.

------
Proleps
With all this talk about bubbles I'm starting to think there is a bubble
bubble :P

------
acturbo
Your blog post is really lousy overall. I can't believe you thought it would
be a good idea to not only vent your thoughts on your personal blog, but then
share that post on this forum, which is filled with the very people you
critique. Your arguments are flat out wrong for claiming that side projects
are a "problem". Besides the lousy points offered, the article came off as
whiny. I suspect that the people you work with would be embarrassed to read
it. I would be.

Other people have already made great comments here. I just wanted to point out
that side projects are how people learn new things and new technologies. Most
side projects are never finished, nor do they make it to market. However, the
process of working on the project was in itself beneficial as a learning tool.
New technologies and new techniques get explored and tested, all during off
hours. And guess who benefits from that?

Employers could consider these options ... \- hire people that find the day
time work to be interesting enough (i.e. don't hire superstars thinking they
will bring sparkle to boring work) \- provide good incentives to keep people
focused on their day job \- openly support side projects, people will respect
that and give back to you (don't make people stress about working on a side
project) \- get involved with side projects and offer whatever you can to help
\- partner with people in their ventures, their idea may be better than yours
\- directly sponsor internal side projects that people can work on and vent
their need to create/explore etc.

------
logn
When this bubble bursts, namecheap.com is going to lose out on all sorts of
$10.99 renewals in 2 years. It's gonna get ugly.

------
donniefitz2
One of my favorite interview questions for developer candidates is, "tell me
about your side projects" because I know that the people who really love
software development are doing something on the side. Side projects, whether
intended to be "the next big thing" or not, are extremely valuable for
developers and employers.

------
bdcravens
_The worst part is that a lot of the side projects end up being another
attempt at the next social network or a new project management app. Here’s a
quick tip: there are plenty of those already. If you do want to start a
company, work on building a real business, not a side idea that’s hoping to be
the next Twitter/Facebook/Instagram combination or a better version of
Basecamp._

This is true of full-fledged, VC-backed, "startups". (The author seems to
delineate between "startups" and side-projects as if the latter weren't real -
by this logic, PlanScope and Bingo Card Creator aren't real projects)

------
clavalle
It is perfectly valid and beneficial to have side projects.

First, it lets you experiment with new technologies and frameworks outside of
your regular duties. (This can pay dividends to the employer)

Second, it can keep you from code burn out by giving you a creative release.
(Also a benefit to the employer)

Third, it gives you freedom to experiment with smaller projects that might not
be enough to support a person but create value for someone none-the-less.

Finally, one of those side projects might get traction and create a
sustainable business.

Not everyone has the freedom to throw caution into the wind. And oftentimes,
even if they do, it is not the best move.

------
systematical
If there is a start up bubble wouldn't that insinuate it's going to burst at
some time? What would the burst consist of? The mass realization that I
shouldn't do side projects anymore? I agree with the premise of the article, a
side project can distract from 9-5 work, but there is no "bubble"

------
infinitone
Jeez... the word 'bubble' seems to be thrown around every other day now.

------
ChristopherM
Reading through these comments, I think most people either a) missed the point
or b) are angry because he touched a nerve.

Here's my take on it, if you are "working on a side project" + "calling it a
hobby" there's no problem with that. If however, you are "working on a side
project" + "calling it your start up" there's a good chance you are deluding
yourself. Sure... some of you will succeed but less than 1% of you will.

If you want to succeed you need to be fully engaged, you need to be focused
and it even helps if there's a strong incentive to succeed like running out of
money and being homeless. If you have the comfort and safety of job income,
there's a good chance you will slack off because you have "time", you are
exhausted from a stressful day at work, your job is running you down so much
that you need to relax, you need to buy something to cheer yourself up etc.
Also you run the risk that your side project has gotten boring and you want to
chase the new "hotness". Of course some of you will feel hip and cool claiming
that you are pivoting.

How do I know this? I tried working on side (business) projects as an employee
for over 10 years, it just doesn't work. I'm 6 months into developing my
product full time, I'm about halfway done. If I had attempted to do this as an
employee it would have taken 6 years. That's if I could even stay focused and
motivated that long making such slow progress. I know for me that I would have
just given up.

As for a bubble, it is a bubble because people are talking about their hobby
side projects as if they are legitimate businesses that will take off "some
day". A couple will, most will not. The froth is from all the people who will
never be anything but an employee getting lots of mileage and good vibes from
talking about their supposed business. So much so that they will work even
less on the "business" because they have already gotten the positive boost
they were looking for and can continue scraping along in their job. This is
bad because these people will never push themselves in a way that will
actually let them be successful and leave the job that they hate; they are too
afraid of quitting because they can't stand the thought of not having a
comfortable income.

Want to make it happen, then do what I did. Quit your job, you will find ways
to make money. I picked up a side consulting gig where I made 3 times the
money I would have ever made in a "job". This opportunity never, ever would
have occurred if I was an employee. My desire not to work allowed me to state
a very high rate that they accepted, as an employee I would have been so
grateful to get side work I would have worked for much less. I saved enough
money to live on for 2 years and quit the consulting gig.

Next pay off everything, student loan, credit cards, car loan. Sell most of
what you have and rent a room in a house, cut your expenses down to the bone.
Get rid of your TV and other distractions. Live, eat and breathe your start-
up, when you need a break go for walks, bike rides and go see your friends.

Any of you stuck with a house? I am too, however I moved out and have been
renting it out for the past 6 years. It actually makes money, it's an
expensive house so I haven't had any problems with renters they always pay.

If you really believe in your start-up you will go all in, you will not play
it safe. Otherwise you are just like everyone else, a dreamer that is not
really going to accomplish much outside what you do for your employer.

