
Cell carriers to stop sharing real-time cell phone location data - g8oz
https://www.zdnet.com/article/senator-rebukes-carriers-sharing-real-time-location-data/
======
mehrdadn
Title seems misleading, because it doesn't seem like all carriers are stopping
sharing location data... In T-Mobile's case, all they committed to doing was
to "not sell customer location data to shady middlemen."

I don't see how they would classify anybody they do business with as "shady
middlemen", and I also don't see how they can't get around the word "sell" by
finding a different way to share, so the commitment seems vacuous.

~~~
colinbartlett
These announcements and the resulting press coverage have been very
frustrating to me because it seems only that carriers committed to selling
data directly to the end users, eliminating the middle man. One could argue
they can (and will) control the ultimate destination this way. Or one could
argue they will just take a bigger share of the pie without someone marking up
the data in between.

~~~
munchbunny
Yup, coming from the ad industry, that's exactly what most of the ISP's are
trying to do. They're trying to vertically integrate the middle man into
themselves and sell to the advertisers directly. They're competing with the
middle men.

------
zkms
Unless Locationsmart (and the other shady data brokers like "zumigo") goes
under then it's pretty clear that there's some serious caveats in this alleged
stopping of sharing location data.

~~~
qop
These companies sometimes make deals at the app level, in order to get
location data from phones that share it with their app(s).

So not necessarily. But I like how you think.

------
jamesholden
Why was this even Ok in the first place? How did this get through the system?
I thought you had to have warrants and things. While this is better news, it
leads to questions others have pointed out.. such as what is considered real-
time, and how old data could be to be not considered real-time, and sell that
instead.

~~~
c12
It's not ok.

I can see the interest in it from a marketeers point of view being that you
can target localised marketing to people so rather than a company thats 30
miles way you might see adverts for companies within walking distance.

However on the flip side to that I think it's quite useless as realtime
marketing because if someone is out looking for a post office, or somewhere to
eat they are more likely to open their maps app and search or look around
using their eyes and it's reasonable for the maps app to show location based
information because thats what it does.

Then we get to having data of where someone has been (non-realtime) which has
similar benefits to marketeers but also poses the same serious privacy issues.

I don't personally believe location data should be broadcast outside of the
device without the users explicit knowledge of where it's going and why its
being sent, e.g find my phone functionality, mapping apps, share location with
a friend your meeting.

------
walrus
Yeah right. They'll find a way to sell it while claiming they don't share it.

~~~
fma
Today: They won't sell real time data anymore.

Tomorrow : Sell one minute delayed...

------
ForHackernews
I bet there's a whole bunch of caveats attached. How old is not "real-time"
data? Can I buy where your phone was yesterday?

------
sandworm101
What I don't understand is how difficult it is to get at this data for
legitimate reasons. Any advertiser can find out when my phone drifts within
sight of a Starbucks, but when a child, senior, or light aircraft goes missing
suddenly this same data is hidden behind talk of warrants and privacy
concerns. These companies could do much to legitimize themselves if they
operated some sort of 'amber alert' outreach program.

------
philbarr
So are they selling access to the SS7 network? Or just a continually updated
dataset?

------
TACIXAT
This is awesome. I was seriously considering not carrying a cell phone over
this.

~~~
kyboren
You should seriously consider that once more.

These carriers will use the narrowest possible interpretation of their
statements. Historical location data appears to be fair game, and perhaps
they'll just launch their own competing service so they aren't providing
anything to a third party. These carriers all constantly record your location
data and see it as another potential source of revenue. The law (in the US)
does not prevent them from trading it, sharing it, selling it, targeting
advertising using it, etc.

They got caught with their hands in the cookie jar this time and are
pretending to be really sorry about it so that the law stays that way, and
they can go back to stealing cookies once this all dies down a bit. Don't for
a second think that this means your location data will not be used against you
in order for the carrier to make a quick buck.

