
EFF Finds Evidence Of Over 40,000 Intelligence Violations By The FBI - DanielRibeiro
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110202/03320812922.shtml
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jdp23
Just a reminder: the House is voting on Patriot Act renewal Monday at 6:30
p.m. Eastern. Please call your representative! There are plenty of other ways
you can help too.

Get FISA Right's action alert: <http://bit.ly/feb13aa>

EFF:
[https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=Us...](https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=461)

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coderdude
The source: [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-
de...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-detailing-
fbi-intelligence)

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GHFigs
The "40,000" figure isn't any less made up than it was two weeks ago:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2159444>

~~~
Bud
I think I'd much sooner take EFF's word than the FBI's word, about the number.
The FBI, most especially under GWB, lies for a living. EFF tells the truth for
a living.

I think we can all agree there was rampant, epidemic lawbreaking in the Bush
Administration, though, and that it appears to be continuing under Obama.
Massaging the exact number smacks of an effort to distract.

~~~
danenania
I wonder if Obama is ever going to grow a pair and stand up for what's right.

I've never liked him much politically, but I've always had the feeling that
deep down he wants to do the right thing. He's just too damn caught up in
being a politician.

Perhaps if he gets re-elected?

~~~
nika
I believe he's doing exactly what he wanted to do. He had both houses and
could have reversed the TSA, cancelled the PATRIOT act, closed guantanimo,
ended warrantless wiretapping and spying on americans, etc. But he has done
the opposite.

I am curious why you think that he would do better if he got re-elected?

~~~
danenania
I don't really think he would, it's just a vague hope that maybe he'll
remember he has a soul or something and actually try to be what he portrays
himself as instead of a politically motivated con man. Maybe it's possible
he'll come around. I feel like Egypt has changed him in some way. He actually
took a minor stand against the establishment. It was timid, but first steps
often are.

~~~
anamax
> I don't really think he would, it's just a vague hope that maybe he'll
> remember he has a soul or something and actually try to be what he portrays
> himself as instead of a politically motivated con man.

[http://www.lyricsfreak.com/w/who/wont+get+fooled+again_20146...](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/w/who/wont+get+fooled+again_20146855.html)

> I feel like Egypt has changed him in some way.

Which stand was that? The official white house statements were all over the
map and didn't become close to coherent until after Mubarek left.

> He actually took a minor stand against the establishment.

He is the establishment....

We'll see how it ends out.

Meanwhile, there's Tunesia and Algeria.

And then there's what Obama did wrt Iran.

~~~
danenania
Look, you're preaching to the choir. He is part of the establishment, but
there are a lot of parts to the establishment, and a lot of others with enough
power to challenge his. Not that I find this anywhere near a valid excuse for
his frankly criminal abuses and negligence, but he doesn't have a free hand.
He got where he is by pleasing the powerful. It's probably difficult in our
time and perhaps any other to find a ruler of a powerful country who hasn't
committed criminal abuses and negligence. That's the sort of person who
achieves those positions. Now he himself is one of the powerful, but still
risks a lot by going against the line, even as president. Is it unlikely that
he will change? Yes. But it would still be nice if he did. I believe it's
possible, to some extent, though not very probable. Stranger things have
happened.

~~~
anamax
> but [Obama] doesn't have a free hand.

And yet Bush did....

> Now he himself is one of the powerful, but still risks a lot by going
> against the line, even as president.

Oh really? What? Be very specific.

You've "confused" Obama with your wishes and are now inventing excuses because
the alternative is acknowledging that he isn't what you wanted him to be.

Or, as Glenn Reynolds puts it "They told me if I voted for McCain {insert bad
thing} would happen." when he points out what Obama has actually done.

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aantthony
What a surprise.

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drivebyacct2
The number was 40,000 4-5 years ago when I was debating this case in policy
debate in highschool. I fought against it then, and no one gave a shit.
Doesn't surprise me that it has continued to occur.

~~~
GHFigs
_The number was 40,000 4-5 years ago_

Source?

~~~
drivebyacct2
Well, I'm assuming they're talking about NSLs, which was my case specifically.
Wish I still had a copy of the case in front of me. I'll see what I can dig
up.

From the FBI themselves (published March 2007):

"In the period covered by the report, the number of NSL requests has ranged
from approximately 40,000 to 60,000 per year and we have requested information
on less than 20,000 persons per year."

[http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-fbis-use-of-
national-s...](http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-fbis-use-of-national-
security-letters-3)

Note that NSLs require NO court oversight, though sometimes are required to
"justified" after the fact. They can be issued on the spot by field agents,
and generally, a single NSL is served on a group of people, they're not
limited to individuals. Furthermore, the NSL includes a gag order that
prohibits you from disclosing that your privacy is being violated by the use
of one.

~~~
uxp
The article on Friday[1] about the ISP director who challenged his NSL
mentions in both the Reddit AMA and his 27c3 talk that between about 2004 and
2008, the FBI served about 200,000 NSLs.

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208093>

