
Screw your standing desk. How about squatting? - freshfey
http://bitehype.com/screw-your-standing-desk-how-about-squatting/
======
quarterto
After wading through the article's obnoxious style, we see it provides no
tangible arguments against standing, nor _for_ squatting. In fact, the only
argument against standing is that it's uncomfortable, and then the rest of the
article is spent explaining how to make squatting less uncomfortable.
Squatting for more than 5 minutes would probably make my knees explode.

~~~
swombat
Mostly because you don't squat properly and/or aren't used to squatting...

In China, until recently, all toilets were basically squatting toilets, yet
octogenarians had no issue squatting to use them... how old are you that you
can't do for 5 minutes what an 80 year old can do several times a day?

~~~
devcpp
Same goes for sitting toilets though.

And we still don't have any arguments supporting either position. I do squat
for a few minutes every day to facilitate my squat lifting workout but don't
see an inherent benefit. I suppose one can argue that it has been a natural
movement for so long that our bodies may be genetically designed for it.

~~~
vidarh
Look at young children, and see how effortlessly they can sit for _ages_ in
squat positions while playing. After I started fixing my squat for lifting,
I've noticed I now often naturally squat down instead of awkwardly contorting
myself when playing with my son for example.

My mobility is still poor compared to what it was when I was a child, but at
38 I'm now finally more flexible again than I was at 25, maybe more so than at
20, and it's great to not feel constrained by weird movement patterns.

~~~
iopq
they have very short limbs making this very easy

~~~
vidarh
Their limbs are proportionally the same, and their muscles equivalently
smaller and weaker. It's no harder for an adult with proper mobility.

~~~
iopq
it completely depends on the proportions

long-limbed people have more difficulty with this, while shorter-limbed people
don't have difficulty with this after a little stretching

------
rwhitman
If you have a bad back or are interested in posture, there is a wonderful book
(ignore the generic title) called "8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back", written by a
woman who observed that people in non-Westernized cultures have very little
back problems and that they exhibit natural choices in posture that we lost in
the West due to various trends and furniture designs. Its a really fascinating
read and explores a lot of these types of differences in posture and the
positive effects on health.

Edit: I did just take another spin through it and she doesn't mention
squatting at all, kind of surprising that wasn't covered considering how
universal it is

~~~
eterm
Do they have less back problems or just less reporting of back problems?

Culture is a complex thing, so is health. The intersection of them I wouldn't
trust in the hands of laymen or self-proclaimed experts.

~~~
rwhitman
Apparently its almost unheard of in some cultures to have any sort of back
problems, even after decades of physical labor etc. The premise of the book is
that the reason for this is that these people are using their spines and
posture in a more natural fashion, which leverages the structure of the spine
better, but we don't do it in the West as the result of a kind of cultural
revolt against victorian era posture norms that took place in the 1920's

~~~
JshWright
> Apparently

It's not readily apparent to those of us asking for proof...

~~~
evacuationdrill
It's so obnoxious how people like you expect members contributing to the
discussion to have perfect proof on hand or go digging. If that were the true
standard, these discussions would be much thinner.

It's fine to ask, just don't be an asshole when a person doesn't have it; look
it up yourself.

~~~
JshWright
I have no problem with people expressing their opinions without backing them
up with facts. I do it all the time.

I was objecting to the use of the word 'apparently' as it is, in fact, not
apparent to many people.

------
notacoward
Dumbest idea ever. The hyper-fit guy sitting in the gym isn't looking too bad,
though having the knees rotated that far out for any length of time isn't
going to work out well. (Yes, knees-out squatting and knees-in squatting are
very different things.) The woman in the second picture has the same problem,
plus hyper-extending her arms and bending her wrists too far back. The third
woman . . . oh, I don't even know where to start with that one. None of them
are doing their vision any favors being that far from the screen, either.
There's a reason they only picture twenty-somethings.

I love squatting. I have ever since I was a child, and people have often
commented on my tendency to squat when others would stand or sit. I also use a
standing desk. Nonetheless, there's just _no way whatsoever_ that squatting
while using a computer seems like a good idea.

~~~
cincinnatus
How about while reading? Or thinking? It's not like "using a computer" is a
monolithic activity. Electric desk frames allow you to change position
throughout the day. The latest one I got (3 segment legs from geek desk) can
go so low I can sit lotus in front of it.

~~~
notacoward
Yes, _changing_ positions is really the key. That's why I have an Ergotron
sit/stand mount for my monitor, and I use it in both modes. I also tend to
pace a lot when I don't need to be looking at the monitor. (One of the nice
things about working at home is that nobody complains about that.) I'm sure
squatting is fine and even good exercise once in a while, but this article is
presenting it as a primary position for extended periods and that's just
crazy.

------
chromaton
For me, the key is not keeping in one position for the whole day. That's why I
chose to go with an arrangement that allows me to either sit or stand. I find
myself using the standing option for about 4 hours a day. I'll use it less
(sometimes not at all) if I happen to be more active during working hours. You
can see details of my build here:

[http://planiverse.wordpress.com/2014/01/10/building-a-sit-
st...](http://planiverse.wordpress.com/2014/01/10/building-a-sit-stand-desk-
for-less-than-200/)

I think adding squatting to my set of postures should just be a matter of
getting a rigid chair and squatting on that.

Finally, if you do sit, I recommend getting a seat pad designed for
wheelchairs. People who can't walk must do a LOT of sitting, so wheelchair
seats must be comfortable.

------
dagw
Arguing standing vs sitting (vs squatting) is missing the point. It's not an
either or proposition. Holding any one position for a long time is bad. A good
desk should be quick and easy to move from sitting height to standing height,
and you switch between them regularly.

~~~
taeric
I was thinking this. Ironically, this fits with the original vision for
cubicles, as I heard it. You could arrange multiple "desks" if you will, so
that you could switch between them easily. I don't believe I have seen this
done, though.

Nor do I have any references. Apologies.

------
nostromo
Don't most of our fellow primates spend most of their time squatting? Maybe
they're on to something?

[http://i.imgur.com/leDTqgl.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/leDTqgl.jpg)

[http://i.imgur.com/3f8c0PK.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/3f8c0PK.jpg)

[http://i.imgur.com/DBXxFvo.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/DBXxFvo.jpg)

~~~
Tomis02
If I stay in a squat position within a couple of minutes my legs become really
tensed up and it feels as if my I'm cutting my blood flow; squatting for even
5 minutes is not feasible for me, let alone 8 hours, and I don't believe it to
be a matter of training. I think we are a long way from our fellow primates.

~~~
vidarh
You may not believe it is a matter of training, but your experience is fairly
normal for someone who lacks the required flexibility from years of not
squatting much.. As long as your form is good, squatting more will quickly
rectify that.

------
bmj
Interesting. I've been a desk squatter for years--I've never wanted a
dedicated stand desk, but I've been able to configure my set-up to allow good
posture while squatting. It certainly provides a nice break from sitting.

~~~
Glide
I'm curious on how your desk would be arranged for squatting. This is the
first I've even heard of desk squatting so I am struggling with how it would
be set up.

~~~
bmj
Well, the setup is pretty normal. I'm in a "normal" cubicle, using a standard
keyboard, and a couple of 21" monitors that have been raised a few inches.
When I squat, my arms are raised higher than there are when I am seated, but
they are still at an angle that is reasonable to maintain for 15-20 minutes at
a time. The monitor height is actually better when I'm squatting.

I will note that in 15 years in the industry, I've not had any major ergonomic
issues (some of that I attribute to rock climbing), so I'm certainly not
suggesting this particular setup for everyone.

~~~
Glide
Ok that makes a lot of sense. I'm going to assume you're squatting in a chair
as well. That or you have a ridiculously long torso. 15-20 minutes seems kind
of a short amount of time compared to standing though.

I think you should stress that latter part more actually. Being healthy isn't
just what a person can do in one area but in all areas.

------
nawitus
>what’s with the racism, yo?

That's not racism, it's a valid observation.

~~~
placeybordeaux
Thats not a serious, it's a joke.

------
jackgavigan
I'd love to be able to do this but I can't keep my centre of gravity over my
feet if I put my feet flat on the floor (no matter how widely I spread my
knees), so I just end up toppling over backwards. If I do it with my back
against a wall, my knees start to hurt after about 30 seconds. I just don't
think my body is designed to squat like that. Or do the lotus position, for
that matter.

~~~
freshfey
Try to do the challenge (mentioned in the article) and go down as far as you
comfortably can. You're probably lacking range in the hips or the ankles and
this will fix itself with time. Basically because you weren't in this position
for a long time, your body doesn't "allow" you this position, because it
thinks you might hurt yourself while doing it. But once you get used to the
position, you'll ease into it with time.

------
lazyjones
Let's think about why we gave up this position for going to the toilet, even
though it allowed for better hygiene and simpler toilet designs. Is it because
we "lost" this position at some point, or perhaps it wasn't that comfortable
after all (for the bowels, for example)?

~~~
cincinnatus
I think it was an accident of history in Europe. Something to do with the
architecture of castles and ships perhaps.

It is a shame that much of Asia is losing the squat toilet over time. I've
found it to be very helpful on occasion. It dramatically reduces apparent
constipation.

~~~
kaybe
Quite a few people seem to squat on the western style toilets though.. at
least that's what the signs forbidding it and the occasional footprints on the
seat suggest.

------
xutopia
Except some of us are morphologically incapable of squatting the restful way:
[http://themovementfix.com/the-best-kept-secret-why-people-
ha...](http://themovementfix.com/the-best-kept-secret-why-people-have-to-
squat-differently/)

~~~
Glide
I had thought most of the squatting talk on this was about more weightlifting
type squatting and not just being able to rest in a squatting position.

Unless a deep squat = squatting restfully. Which is hard to argue that it's
not due to lack of flexibility.

------
Alterlife
Arguably not a polite way to sit in an Indian office considering this:

[http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Indian-Bathroom](http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-
Indian-Bathroom)

~~~
kissickas
Is that a fact? Arabs often have the same kind of toilet but I've never heard
someone say that squatting in general is rude.

------
dota168
Third-world squats

[http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1856085](http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1856085)

------
cLeEOGPw
Eastern Europeans have been always doing it already
[http://slavsquat.com/](http://slavsquat.com/)

~~~
zalew
as a Pole it's so obvious for me I didn't realize it was a thing, and reading
the article the 1st thing I thought is why they don't do it so.

------
ris
I personally do naturally sit like this, but I don't think it's good for
circulation in the legs. I do worry about DVTs.

------
MichaelTieso
Squatting itself is common in China. After a year in China, I got use to squat
toilets although I still preferred toilets. But I found it odd when they would
squat in the middle of the sidewalk or street and be so close to the ground.
The Chinese swear by it though that it's healthy for your knees and back if
you squat.

------
Tomis02
Google Cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KJ58rS6...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KJ58rS6WC-
EJ:bitehype.com/screw-your-standing-desk-how-about-
squatting/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk)

------
falcolas
Interesting idea, but like all positions, staying in it too long can be a
painful affair. A work station that supports moving to a good squatting height
(along with standing and sitting) would seem like the ideal compromise.

------
sdegutis
I can't seem to balance as I squat with feet flat on the ground. This is hard.
My kids (esp. baby) can do it just fine though. And I won't be outdone by a
bunch of tiny humans!

~~~
khafra
It could be tendons that need stretching; but it could also be inherent
anatomical differences. I have curved shins, which pushes everything from the
knee up a few inches backward when I try to squat. It's physically impossible
for me to do a heels-down squat without bending my back to lean forward
between my knees.

~~~
kyllo
If that's true, you probably need to spread your knees apart more, and bend at
the hip joint more to achieve full squat depth. Rounding your back == bad.

------
_nullandnull_
I learned this technique when I was backpacking through Vietnam. I noticed
that many of the people were squatting rather then sitting. Then while touring
the Cu Chi tunnels outside of Ho Chi Minh City our guide explained why the
tunnels/holes were so small. It's because the soldiers would sit in this squat
position for hours. Once you start doing it often you can do it longer and
longer. I usually sit like this while I am in between sets at the gym.

------
PagingCraig
Trying to take an unconditioned person and telling them to hold a deep squat
like that for hours = injuries all over. They'll lack ankle flexibility and
whatnot.

~~~
vidarh
A person unused to squatting will often have problems holding a squat for 30
seconds, if able to get down into a squat in the first place. I very much
doubt that injuries would be a problem simply because the position is nearly
impossible to hold for prolonged periods until you've developed the
flexibility needed.

------
chadwickthebold
Going out on a limb here - I think this is satire.

~~~
pgrote
The facebook page has a bunch of people in on the satire.

------
hectip
What about using a harness to support yourself upright, but without the stress
on your legs. Or, one of Honda's Exoskeleton devices
[http://www.gizmag.com/honda-leasing-walking-assist-device-
ex...](http://www.gizmag.com/honda-leasing-walking-assist-device-
exoskeleton/27681/).

------
emiljbs
It's not about standing vs squatting, it's sitting down vs squatting
(especially on the toilet) that's the big point.

------
anrope
It's true, standing desks are so last year. But why take baby steps with the
squat desk?

Keep your eyes open for my kickstarter yoga desk.

------
iopq
my proportions don't let me do this, I have very long legs, I'm 6'4" and have
a medium length torso and my extra height is in legs

with such extreme proportions it's not possible to do it comfortably since I
need to squat inside my knees so I need to turn the knees outside to squat
between them

this is probably not very healthy

~~~
kyllo
Sure it is.

In powerlifting, when performing a barbell squat, you are supposed to spread
your knees apart and squat down in between your legs. This is proper technique
and reduces the stress on the knee joint, transferring the load to the glutes
and hamstrings.

I don't see why it would be unhealthy for you to do it _without_ weight on
your back.

~~~
iopq
I can't squat below parallel without getting pain in my hip joint and/or knees
after a while. I am not built for low squatting, and especially not for going
ass to grass. A lot of longer-limbed people can't hit full depth in a proper
position.

~~~
kyllo
I have long femurs as well and can't squat comfortably for very long periods
of time either, it feels like it cuts off the blood flow in my knees, but I
would argue that that is most likely due to years of adaptation to a life of
sitting on chairs and sofas, rather than due to some hereditary physiological
quality. The more I squat and the more I get used to squatting, the more
comfortable it becomes. When I started powerlifting, I struggled to hit depth,
but now I do go almost ATG on every rep without any discomfort in my joints.

I really don't think there's any bone preventing you from squatting to depth.
I believe it's almost always an issue of the condition of your muscular and
connective tissue.

~~~
iopq
here's an explanation:

[http://imgur.com/3ZjRtsk](http://imgur.com/3ZjRtsk)

------
cko
Baseball catchers spend a lot of time in a squatting position. I was always
told that it really messes up their knees.

~~~
kyllo
Because they squat with their weight on their toes and their heels off the
ground.

------
josh-wrale
Sciatic nerve tension, anyone? Maybe it's for the best. :-)

------
dabernathy89
This sounds like it would cause my kneecaps to explode.

------
udkl
How about real exercise instead of an excuse for one ?

------
ChikkaChiChi
If people begin squatting at their desks, I'm patenting under-knee deodorant.

------
CompleteMoron
I think it's satire-esque. I think sitting like that is for people who dont
really "work" \- or maybe I am mad because I invested in a 2k stand up desk
only to be sent thousands of miles away on a job.

Plus I feel like sitting like that would fill the office with farts and stuff.

~~~
brianwawok
Squatting doesn't make you fart unless you have other serious problems.

------
pessimizer
Hipsters, please make this a trend. The only place I sit properly is at work,
and I hate it. I have no interest in a standing desk. I would love to sit on
my calves and heels all day at the office, just like I sit at home when
working on something.

I don't care what kind of dubious health claims have to be made. Get it done!

