
Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year - crunchlibrarian
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-verizon-layoffs/verizon-says-to-shed-10400-jobs-by-mid-next-year-idUSKBN1O91VM
======
2bitencryption
> The New York-based company has been looking at cutting costs as it ramps up
> investment in its next generation 5G network, which is expected to fuel
> growth.

"we're about to grow a ton, better cut 10k jobs to maximize those gains."

that just sounds so... weird to me.

~~~
dfxm12
The company is laying off 10,400 employees. According to the article: _The
company said it had 152,300 employees at the end of the third-quarter ending
Sept. 30._

That's a significant chunk of their workforce! I suspect Verizon will quietly
be hiring thousands of people from places where they can legally pay them less
than these 10+ thousand.

~~~
PedroBatista
That's pretty much the modus operandi of every telco around the World.

The working conditions in call-centers or guys doing installation &
maintenance tend to be absolutely horrendous across the board.

------
roymurdock
Judging by the posts on this layoff board, most of the layoffs are older, more
expensive folk, so it seems like Verizon is going to bring on younger cheaper
labor just ahead of its rollout of 5G...we'll see how that plays out. Also it
sounds like 44k people were offered the voluntary severance package and 10k
accepted...almost 1/3 of the organization was offered a VSP? Insane:

[https://www.thelayoff.com/t/WynLh8d#replies](https://www.thelayoff.com/t/WynLh8d#replies)

------
sct202
I read on the Layoff they had about 11.4k applicants, and 90% of them were
accepted. Looks like the first wave is out starting Dec 28th.

With such a large cut it would be weird to be rejected, I would feel an
awkward mix of jealousy and loss to go back to work afterwards.

~~~
teachrdan
Wouldn't it be a compliment of sorts to be determined too valuable to be let
go?

~~~
jhare
I've been there, it's not really a good feeling since the remaining pressure
can be burdensome depending on how much your company cuts.

"You're too valuable to let go! Best yet is you don't have all those pesky
coworkers!"

Whatever leftover slop the company feeds you from the remains of your
coworkers won't have that satisfying flavor.

------
sonnyblarney
The cuts are voluntary, and people are getting 1 years salary out of it. I
suggest a lot of people are more than happy to take it in a good job market.

That people are making the choice - and many don't seem to mind doing it,
makes this quite a different thing than a regular layoff.

Apparently churn has been high, and people leaving their jobs voluntarily is
in some ways a good sign for the economy. They certainly don't do that when
times are bad.

------
porpoisely
I guess their fios price increases the past few years isn't going to their
workforce. Does this mean they are done increasing the price for a while now?

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yuy910616
wait a sec...i read it's 44,000 like a few days ago.

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/10/05/verizon...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/10/05/verizon-
lays-off-44000-transfers-2500-more-it-jobs-to-indian-outsourcer-
infosys/#31711eba46f5)

------
throwaway5752
That is 10,400 out of 152,300 per the article, or just a bit less than 7% of
their workforce.

~~~
agumonkey
I never realized how large they were

------
taurath
So.. they finished laying the groundwork for their 5g network, and now they
won’t need 7% of their workforce until 6g starts to go in 6-10 years?

~~~
apexalpha
Every ISP in the world is shedding employees. Every generation the network
gets more digitized, more virtualised and you simply need less people to
maintain and update it.

------
bogomipz
So they're offsetting the Capex of their 5G rollout by eliminating employees
that helped make Verizon 3G and 4G rollouts a success and the company a ton of
cash? That seems like a pretty bad precedent if so.

Also why would a brand new network deployment require any less head count? I
assume they will just hire new workers when the uptake in 5G begins in
earnest?

~~~
dfxm12
_I assume they will just hire new workers when the uptake in 5G begins in
earnest?_

Probably at lower wages to boot.

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paul7986
So are they going all 5G for residential Fios broadband ... offering FIOs
nationally over 5G?

For consumers that would be great and I’m sure other carriers would follow. If
they do Comcast will suffer and millions of consumers will have a choice of
residential broadband vs. only one player.

Thus I wonder if these job cuts are happening mostly in their wireline
business that’s unionized?

~~~
tracker1
I'm not entirely sure... Wireless is shared bandwidth and fairly constrained,
even with 5G tech. Interference is another huge issue if they tried. It would
be somewhat nice for more rural areas where broadband feels like it's stuck in
the late 90's (even in areas not so rural).

It's also worth noting that Verizon is also the most expensive wireless
carrier out there by a pretty good margin. I only use them because when I'm on
road trips, they're often the only provider I get signal with. If I were just
in town, I'd probably switch to a lower cost carrier, and rely on wifi more.

------
padseeker
I'm so glad we passed those corporate tax cuts that created all those jobs and
helped provide for all those raises everyone got....

~~~
jayess
Full-time employment is up by 2.7 million since the tax cuts went into effect.

Michigan's unemployment is the lowest it's been since records have been kept:
[https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21325](https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21325)

~~~
toomuchtodo
Correlation does not imply causation. Can you provide evidence tax cuts stoked
existing economic momentum? Or is the economy on fire despite these tax cuts?

Stock buybacks [1] done with these tax cuts, enriching shareholders, does
little to stoke economic demand or benefit the middle class [2]. More likely,
cheap, loose credit is what has allowed the music to carry on.

[1] [https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-
re...](https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-record-tax-
cuts/index.html) (Tax cut triggers $437 billion explosion of stock buybacks)

[2] [https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-
much...](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-much-of-gop-
tax-cuts-will-go-to-the-middle-class) (CHARTS: See How Much Of GOP Tax Cuts
Will Go To The Middle Class)

~~~
jayess
Why aren't you asking this of all the comments in this parent? People seem to
be blaming Verizon cutting 10,000 jobs on the tax cuts. Or claiming that jobs
weren't created. Or that somehow the tax cuts were an economic negative. None
of those things can be attributed to causation.

~~~
padseeker
_People seem to be blaming Verizon cutting 10,000 jobs on the tax cuts_

At no point was that ever insinuated. The simple idea is that the tax cuts
were sold as a way to give companies financial resources to boost salaries and
hire new people. Well they got their tax cuts, why are they doing the opposite
of what the tax cuts were supposed to do?

Maybe it's because the tax cuts were never going to boost salaries and
increase hiring. You have to be pretty deluded to come to the conclusion my
comment was blaming the layoffs on the tax cuts.

~~~
jayess
> At no point was that ever insinuated.

Then when is the meaning of the parent comment?

> why are they doing the opposite of what the tax cuts were supposed to do?

I'm curious what news you're reading or consuming.

Wages are up 3.1% YoY (biggest increase in 10 years) and unemployment lowest
since 1969: [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wages-and-salaries-jump-
by-3...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wages-and-salaries-jump-
by-3point1percent-highest-level-in-a-decade.html)

2.7 Million more full-time jobs since January 1, when the tax cuts went into
effect.

~~~
Eleopteryx
>Wages are up 3.1% YoY

>Real average hourly earnings increased 0.7 percent, seasonally adjusted, from
October 2017 to October 2018.

Eh...
[https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf)

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kanox
Also tumblr?

------
cpr
A bit off-topic, but is 5G really the deadly killer that the conspiracy boards
are bantering about?

------
mlthoughts2018
At least the described severance benefit might be on the correct order of
magnitude to be considered reasonable and not totally and odiously evil,

“As part of the separation program, the employees will get a salary of up to
60 weeks, bonus and benefits, depending on the length of their service,
Verizon said.”

This is why I always advise people to negotiate significance severance
benefits up front, on the order of 6 months for junior employees, a year +
bonuses and continued benefits for experienced employees.

Companies absolutely agree to severance amounts like this, even for new grads,
and sayingno to a company that won’t is just doing yourself a favor.

~~~
hayksaakian
If it's "up to" 60 weeks like they offer "up to X" internet speeds, then
they're selling the best case but probably delivering half that.

~~~
rayiner
I get you're trying to make a joke, but it's a weird criticism of Verizon
specifically. Every FiOS circuit I've had over the last 15 years, except for
some growing pains with gigabit, has tested at 10% over its rated speed.
Verizon also has particularly generous compensation:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/business/verizon-
workers-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/business/verizon-workers-
strike.html) (union members make $130,000 on average in salary and benefits).

~~~
ryandrake
I just got back from Thanksgiving visiting my folks in rural PA where Verizon
DSL is the only so-called high speed option, and it barely worked. I often
could not even load the speed test pages. They were getting far less (10-20%?)
than advertised. I thought the joke was brilliant and apt.

~~~
jandrese
Verizon DSL and Verizon FiOS are entirely different beasts. Your parents are
likely right on the edge of DSL availability, where it starts to get really
flaky.

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TAForObvReasons
They aren't laying off people, it was a voluntary separation:

> Verizon Communications Inc said on Monday that about 10,400 employees will
> be leaving the U.S. wireless carrier by mid next year as part of the
> company’s voluntary separation program.

They offered a package earlier in the year
[https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/25/verizon-offers-separation-
pl...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/25/verizon-offers-separation-plans-to-
thousands-of-management-employees.html)

~~~
reaperducer
_They aren 't laying off people, it was a voluntary separation_

It's just another layer of corporate double-speak.

The same way "fired" became "laid off."

Until the early 90's, "laid off" applied to factory and seasonal workers, who
were expected to be recalled when production ramped up again.

~~~
Spivak
I don't really think it's doublespeak.

Laid off means an employer doesn't want/need your position anymore.

Fired means an employer doesn't want _you_ anymore.

~~~
cgriswald
I don't think it's quite so black-and-white. Often there are multiple such
positions and they are being reduced. So your position still exists and they
don't want _you_ (or rather, they would prefer to have X number of your
coworkers rather than you). I don't think it's synonymous with being fired,
but you can smell it from there.

~~~
mohaine
Every time I'm seen a layoff in tech it is always the lower performing
employees first out the door. Round 1 is normally just letting people go who
should have been fired years before.

Of course this is often when the good employees start doing interviews as
well.

~~~
jandrese
The first round of cuts (of deadweight that avoided egregious screwups) work
so well that managers get addicted and pretty soon they're cutting the actual
workers and they kill the company.

