
OS X emulation layer for Linux - frozenport
http://darling.dolezel.info/en/Darling
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saurik
A) This was discussed by a bunch of people already two weeks ago.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4893022>

B) Apparently this is a better-marketed expansion of the long-established
maloader, which already works for many of the use cases that people bring up
when they hear about this project (such as running parts of Xcode).

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bengl3rt
This is of great interest to me because I've always wanted to run this...

<http://cycling74.com/whatismax/>

On one of these:

<http://www.museresearch.com/products/receptor-vip.php>

Designing live performance environments in Max is awesome, but laptops just
are not designed for the rigors of the road. They are delicate creatures that
stand in awkwardly, at best, for musical instruments. Max running on the
Receptor would be incredible, and hopefully not too challenging considering
the environment is largely self-contained with very few external dependencies.

~~~
retroafroman
Isn't PureData (<http://puredata.info/>) the open source equivalent, available
to run native on Linux, and fairly feature compatible?

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orionblastar
Oh BTW DAE remember ARDI's Executor?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executor_%28software%29>

It is not OS X, but the Classic Macintosh System translated on the fly to
native code. Because it didn't get enough funding, and lack of interest, and
very few buyers it sort of went DOA. I am sure if they had enough funding they
could have modified it to OS X translation. Maybe someone should help them do
a Kickstarter project?

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daeken
Having worked on a translation layer for a large API (my project Alky
converted Windows games to run on Linux and OS X), building something like
this solo is just asking for pain. An open source project with solid direction
is much more likely to end well. Also, Executor really couldn't be changed to
support OS X; totally different architecture, no processor emulation, etc.

At the end of the day, it's really just API translation; not a technically
difficult project, just an incredibly intensive one.

~~~
orionblastar
How does ARDI Executor compare to the Mac OS X emulation in this linked
article? Are they on the right path, or does Executor do things differently?

~~~
daeken
They're really not comparable at all. Executor is a 68k emulator + APIs for
OS7; the tough part there is doing the emulation properly, and then just
implementing all the APIs. Darling is just a binary loader + APIs; the loader
is trivial but there are a bajillion APIs. Probably 3-4 orders of magnitude
more complexity in Darling, simply due to how much is in OS X.

I do think they're on the right track, though. Hoping to lend a hand when I
get some free time.

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orionblastar
Well this OS X emulation layer is not ready for prime time yet. Don't expect
it to run 100% of your Mac OS X apps.

I'd really rather see more projects that focus on cross compiling XCode source
code on Linux, so that companies can take their OS X software apps and cross
compile them for Linux with little to no changes in the source code. I'd much
rather trust native Linux code than OS X emulated code.

I'd also like to see some 'byteswap' projects that take the machine language
of OS X apps and convert them to Linux format by converting each API or system
interrupt, etc from OS X to Linux for apps that don't have the source code
anymore.

Also anyone remember the Apple Darwin Project? I guess it stopped releasing
binary install ISOS and instead releases the source code. You got the core of
OS X right there, and it would be a good place to start to see the migration
from Darwin to Linux right there.

~~~
akurilin
It would be certainly amazing to be able to develop iOS apps on Linux, but I
doubt Apple will entertain the idea.

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orionblastar
Develop iOS apps on Linux, run iOS apps on Linux, or both?

I think Apple would restrict development requirements in the App Store to ban
iOS apps created with a Non-Apple compiler on a Non-Apple platform just like
they banned Adobe Flash and iOS apps made with Flash.

Not only that but Apple would sue anyone who made an environment to run iOS
apps on a non-Apple operating system.

I kind of have a Love-Hate relationship with Apple because of that. I feel
that iOS apps should be made on any platform and be allowed to run on any
platform. Android is the complete opposite of iOS/Apple, any platform and any
language can develop Android apps, you can choose more than just one store to
buy apps from, and there is this Bluestack app <http://bluestacks.com/> that
runs Android apps on Windows and there is a beta for Mac OS X IIRC. Not only
that but there is an Android for PC OS: <http://www.android-x86.org/download>

~~~
akurilin
I'm talking specifically about developing. I have to continuously switch
between Ubuntu and Mac (and very rarely Windows) and I would prefer to do all
of my work on my perfectly capable linux box instead of purchasing expensive
Apple equipment just to run XCode. I definitely appreciate Android not forcing
you to develop on any specific platform, but at $2k a MacBook Pro, I don't see
Apple changing their policy anytime soon.

For now people want to develop for the App Store and they pay for the
expensive machinery to get a piece of the action. If the Google Play Store
ever becomes the trendy target market and Apple's position is threatened, I
imagine they might consider opening up.

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japhyr
Can someone with a better understanding of this project Summarize it's goals?
For example, would I be able to run Xcode on a Linux machine using this
project when it is mature?

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0x0
I think it's the same idea that Wine has for win32 applications, but for OS X
applications instead: Provide a binary executable loader and an implementation
of all the standard frameworks and libraries, so you can run unmodified mac
apps on x86/x64-based Linux.

Edit:

For your Xcode example, in short, yes. (Although - that's probably one of the
most difficult apps of them all to bring up, since it integrates and depends
on iTunes, mobiledevice/mobilesupport libraries, debugger tools etc.)

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zkirill
Would be interesting to see if this could be used to integrate XCode Unit
Testing into Arcanist/Phabricator running on a Linux machine.

~~~
sneak
Today you can run hackintosh osx in a vm, ssh to it, and use xcodebuild.

Obviously it's more overhead but it functions today.

~~~
i386
Except that you violate the EULA. I wouldn't recommend this in a commercial
environment.

~~~
sneak
Not if the VM host is on Apple-branded HW.

Also, you'd have to get caught. It's not customer-facing.

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stusmall
"You'd have to get caught" isn't a way to do business. Plus it won't fly for
those of us who work in giant megacorps with license audits.

~~~
sneak
If you're running xcode CI at a giant megacorp, you might want to rethink your
life decisions.

~~~
i386
Thats unfair to say. Release Engineering is super critical to running great
software companies and is a strict technical discipline of its own.

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rednukleus
What is the purpose of this, other than just to see if it can be done? I can't
think of any software that would be worthwhile emulating that doesn't already
have a Linux or Windows version (which is covered by Wine), other than xcode.

~~~
dbecker
Does Linux have something like Alfred?

I run a Linux desktop and a Mac laptop. Alfred is the biggest reason I enjoy
my OS X computer more. Huge thanks to anyone who can suggest a Linux
alternative.

~~~
depa
Yes we do. It's called Synapse and it's actually pretty similar.

<https://launchpad.net/~synapse-core/+archive/ppa>

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pschastain
And synapse-core adds what functionality, exactly? I gave up trying to figure
that out from the ppa site and Googled it instead:
[https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&tbo=d&...](https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&tbo=d&tbs=qdr:y&q=synapse+linux&oq=synapse+linux)

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bobowzki
The only thing I'm really missing on linux is xcode.

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Hello71
"No offense intended", but how is this different from any of the <n> different
other OSX emulators?

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frozenport
Do you know of any?

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orionblastar
PearPC?

<http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/about.html>

Mac OS X PowerPC emulation is spotty at best.

Mac On Linux? <http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/>

Runs the PowerPC Mac OS X on PowerPC Linux systems.

Most that I know of aren't emulators but virtual machines for the
PowerMac/CHRP platform that happen to run the PowerPC Mac OS X on them.

There would be more I am sure, and for Intel Macs, but Apple can just threaten
lawsuits to discourage more of it. If the ability to run Mac OS X apps on
other platforms exists, Apple stands to lose a lot of money on hardware sales.
The Hackintosh market, for example uses cheap PC hardware to run Mac OS X on a
non-Apple branded computer.

~~~
nobleach
I don't think we'll see more simply because once Apple made the transition to
Intel, it became somewhat "easy" to install an Intel supported version of OSX
on vanilla hardware. I don't think it's the lawsuits keeping the emu guys at
bay, I think it's just the "why bother" factor. If it's nostalgia, I
completely understand.

I did install OSX 10.2 Jaguar a couple of weeks ago on PearPC because my son
is obsessed with the different releases that came out before he was born. I
wanted to show him all that pin-stripey goodness.

~~~
orionblastar
I heard to fight the Hackintosh crowd that Apple is considering migrating Mac
OS X to ARM based devices for their next Macintosh evolution. That way they
can control what devices run Mac OS X better, and since iOS is Mac OS X based
and runs on ARM chips it would be easier to port Mac OS X to ARM based
Macintosh systems and possibly have a virtual machine on ARM Mac OS X to run
iOS apps as well.

They of course would have to buy a chip maker that can make 64 bit ARM CPUs
with at least quad core to save on costs. I think Apple wants to get rid of
buying chips from Samsung because of the iOS vs. Android lawsuits.

~~~
UntitledNo4
I guess they can do it at their leisure, according to WSJ their contract is
until 2014. Source: [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/samsung-hits-apple-
with-20-...](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/samsung-hits-apple-
with-20-price-hike-report-2012-11-11)

~~~
delinka
nit: in the manufacturing and business worlds, two years (let's give benefit
of the doubt and presume to assume that "until 2014" is "until 31 Dec 2014")
is not enough time to be leisurely. I do suspect, however, with their PA Semi
purchase, that Apple is in a good position to know who to buy and how to buy
them and it wouldn't be a strenuous search.

All assuming, of course, that Apple is interested in such a purchase.

