
The world’s poorest pay more than a day’s wages for a single plate of food - SQL2219
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/oct/16/the-true-cost-of-a-plate-of-food-new-york-south-sudan-global-hunger-crisis
======
bko
> “Unless we stop the conflicts, unless we stop the migration of people from
> their homelands into neighbouring states, unless people have the means to
> either grow their own food or be able to afford to buy it, people will
> continue going hungry.”

That quote struck me as odd. What does the migration have to do with the price
of food? If a meal really costs $320 in Sudan, I would imagine migration would
be a much simpler solution to ending suffering. The migrant can just move to
another country with better institutions and infrastructure where food is
affordable. Migration may have other issues, but alleviating human suffering
is one of the benefits.

Also, I'm not convinced there is a link between the percentage of food
imported into a country and the price of food. If anything, food imports and
trade would help decrease the price through specialization and trade.

~~~
swift
I’m probably making a mistake here by commenting before reading the article,
but I’ve seen many cases where issues with food prices and food supply have
been diagnosed as long term effects of food aid or cheap imported food. What
can happen is that local farmers go out of business or stop growing staple
crops because prices collapse. When conditions change and the food aid stops
or the price of imported food rises, there aren’t enough local farmers left to
feed everyone. That will obviously cause food prices to go through the roof.
It’s always something that has to be considered when planning aid to a
country.

~~~
Ramrade
By all media accounts, most of the migrants are from some of the most
productive demographics (by age). So migration might be slashing poor
countries productive workforces.

~~~
nanomoose
Western countries talking about the benefits of immigration and
multiculturalism - but when those immigrants are educated or skilled the west
is robbing the poor countries of their only hope. This is why visas are better
than residency/citizenship - the poor country person spends a few years in the
advanced country then returns to the poor country with improved skills and
knowledge.

~~~
Sandman
What if a person doesn't want to live in their country of origin? Should we
condemn them to live there anyway?

~~~
nanomoose
"Should we condemn them" \- manipulatively dramatic language imho. Sometimes
we have to step up and take on a burden we might prefer not to - it's done to
improve a situation. You want the country's strong to abandon the country and
its weak? Or do you want the whole population of every poor country to
migrate, should they want?

~~~
Sandman
I'm just considering a not unlikely scenario where a smart, capable person
wants to get away from a country ruled by a corrupt or oppressive government.
What if the majority of the people continually vote for such a government and
this smart (strong, as you put it) person sees no chance of that changing in
the foreseeable future, should that person be forced to live there even if
they don't want to?

~~~
beingmyself2
"forced to live there" is exactly the same manipulative language being used
shamelessly here. You should really consider avoiding such use as it detracts
from your argument.

On the other foot, should we be "forced" to accept people from corrupt
nations? What is the test of character we give these incoming people to
prevent the same "corruption-tolerant" people from ruining our own system of
government?

~~~
Sandman
_" forced to live there" is exactly the same manipulative language being used
shamelessly here. You should really consider avoiding such use as it detracts
from your argument._

Fair enough. What would be another way to say that a person is denied living
in any country other than the one of their origin?

~~~
beingmyself2
The natural result of having borders? If you think people should be able to
live wherever they want then where do you draw the line? Can I come live in
your house and sleep in your bed whenever I want?

~~~
tnzn
Did you just compare countries with houses ? Do people still use this tired
argument ? The line is pretty obvious, it's called property of usage, you
can't be denied what you actually need to live a decent life as defined by
your society, but arbitrary borders based on the arbitrary, random fact that
someone was born at a random place in earth is one of the worst criteria we
can use

------
lovich
Are people dieing en masse there or is more than half the food being provided
as aid? I don't see how the title is possible without one of those as humans
usually eat 3 times a day so they are earning <1/3rd of whats needed on
average to just eat. You could eat less and still survive but that much of
difference doesn't seem like someone could live through for very long

~~~
tmnvix
> humans usually eat 3 times a day

I have no contrary statistical evidence, but I suspect this assumption may be
wrong - especially with regard to poverty-stricken countries.

I count myself as a relatively privileged individual and for more than half of
my lifetime (since being responsible for my own meals) I have mostly chosen to
eat two meals per day. I know a lot of similar people.

Three meals per day is more than is needed for sufficient nourishment.

~~~
lovich
right, like I said you could eat less. 3 meals isn't a hard and fast limit,
its just common. Even if you got down to one meal a day though, the title is
saying that it costs more than the income you make working that day. That is
unsustainable

~~~
tmnvix
It could be sustainable if you are also growing food. That is, you _would_
spend more than your entire day's earnings on food if not for the fact that
you or your family produce most of the food you need. At least that is my take
on how such a seemingly paradoxical situation can come about.

------
MaggieL
"average daily budget derived from national GDP per capita figures"
sounds...erm...almost meaningless.

------
csense
So what's the root cause? When we drive a truck full of food for the poor over
the border, is it stopped and relieved of its contents by men with guns who
sell the food and the truck to non-poor people so they can buy more guns?

Or is it because nobody wants to drive that truck full of food in the first
place because the poor don't have anything worth trading for it?

------
sintaxi
Yet fertility rate in South Sudan is a staggering 4.9 vs 1.8 in USA.

~~~
chewz
I doubt anyone is raising children in NYC on beans and casava or rice.

~~~
beambot
What GP is trying to say: It's financially taxing to have 4+ children compared
to 2 -- regardless of what type of food you have at your disposal.

~~~
tnzn
Except in that context you don't just feed children they also work with you at
a young age so... There's also an economic advantage to having children

