

BlackBerry 10 is Going to Have the Best Web Browser of Any Mobile Platform - techvibes
http://www.techvibes.com/blog/blackberry-best-mobile-browser-2012-11-09

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hemancuso
Predictably there are a lot of haters on the thread, but can't we look at this
as a good thing? A great browser won't be anywhere near enough to win, but a
crappy browser is game over. I, for one, would like more competing platforms
rather than fewer.

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runjake
They're hating because RIM __* is claiming they have the best browser.

But it's all hot air, or more precisely, vaporware. It's not even on the
market. And with RIM's track record, I'm not holding out for hope.

 __* By proxy of Techvibes, which appears to be one of those tech "journalism"
outfits that writes articles per what their hiring vendors tell them to.

~~~
icefox
Well BB10 devices might not be for sale, but the browser has been shown off
and it is part of the dev devices that developers got at BBJam in September.
If you want to see a little preview of it in action checkout this preview
video taken at BBJam <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNTDUncA44> If you
follow the link in the article to Matt's post on the RIM developer blog there
are more articles on the browser and what it has:
[http://devblog.blackberry.com/2012/11/blackberry-10-browser-...](http://devblog.blackberry.com/2012/11/blackberry-10-browser-
html5-standards/)

As mentioned in the video one of the neatest aspects of the browser is the
fact that the chrome itself is written in HTML/JS. So the animations,
transitions etc are all done by WebKit. The BlackBerry browser includes
support for remote inspecting which meant not only could we host the chrome on
our desktop while developing, but we could debug it from a WebKit browser on
our desktop, all while it was running on the device. When you make a web
application for BlackBerry10 it will be on top of the WebWorks platform which
sits on top of the same HTML Runtime that the browser is using which aligned
rim's interests to make sure that web applications work well.

For the curious a much more in depth look at the browser and how it was made
was shown at this BlackBerryJam session:
<http://hosting.desire2learncapture.com/RIM/1/watch/50.aspx>

Disclaimer: I am part of the WebKit team at RIM.

~~~
jonhohle
> As mentioned in the video one of the neatest aspects of the browser is the
> fact that the chrome itself is written in HTML/JS.

Why, as an end user, would I ever care about this? All this says to me is that
the part of the browser which should be fast and get out of the way is written
in an abstraction layer with significant overhead (compared to the
alternative, native code), which - to me - means using more RAM and CPU,
increasing the cost or decreasing the performance of the device.

As a tech demo, I think it's a neat idea. But as a "one of the neatest
aspects" of a commercial product, I'm not inclined to be interested in the
rest of the app.

~~~
icefox
I highlighting this feature for this particular crowd because the same bits
that make the html web applications work on BlackBerry10 is what drives the
new Chrome. This means that the guys making the chrome _really_ do care that
html applications work well.

As for overhead the browser team has always concerned itself with keeping its
footprint down both in memory and cpu and by using JS+HTML our total overhead
was actually reduced compared to running another framework along side WebKit
just for the Chrome. Checkout the above second video for more in depth
presentation on this.

Disclaimer: I am part of the WebKit team at RIM these opinions are my own

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benwerd
Great! That means I can write my application for the web and I don't have to
worry about directly addressing the BlackBerry platform.

~~~
azakai
Yes, that's true.

I assume you meant that sarcastically, as in "look how BlackBerry are killing
off developer interest in their own platform"? Regardless of sarcasm or not,
this is the best play RIM has - to use an existing platform and not rely on
people developing specifically for them. That's the only hope for the underdog
platforms (i.e., everyone except for Android and iOS).

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scovetta
This is a great example of how RIM is "doing it wrong". No one really cares
about things like Flash, "Best HTML 5! OMG! like. EVER!", or "Most Secure
E-Mail, Like, EVER!".

People care about the user experience, the ecosystem (read: apps, for now),
integration, trust, and the "wow" factor.

Spitting in the wind, though, I suppose.

~~~
rescripting
I think the strategy is to let the browser be a platform for application
development. The better the foundation, the more robust and varied apps
developers can build, the stronger the ecosystem.

Looking at it from the perspective of "so what if the browser is standards
compliant, users don't care about benchmarks" is a bit short sighted since
it's not just about the browser, it's about the foundation of the phone's
ecosystem.

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nnq
...the only thing that could motivate me nowadays to write a BB version of a
mobile app would be the ability to use HTML5 and javascript and just have the
same app on both Android and BB... so if the browser is better than what 90%
of Android users have, I wouldn't care, because I'd be targeting the Android
webkit browser... Android won, so they should first strive for compatibility
first (and HTML5 apps seems the only way for them) and then show off any
superior features their OS may have on top of this...

...it seems that they are running through the woods without a map (AGAIN!)
right now, and it really doesn't matter how fast they can run or climb trees
if they don't know where they're going

[EDIT: added what's next] my 2 cents for RIM: throw some money at Xamarin
(<http://xamarin.com>) to make BB a target for their app development
platform... putting your eggs in the multiplatform basket would seem like the
only sensible decision now that your basket is hosed / on fire, and enterprise
devs that would be more inclined to target BB will probably prefer C#...

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Mvandenbergh
Their idea of the "Best Web Browser" is passing a standards compliance test
with top marks?

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SwellJoe
That's a big part of my idea of a good web browser, as well.

~~~
aes256
Alas, you are not the average person.

~~~
mtgx
What's a "great" browser for the average person, then? One that can't run good
web apps properly?

~~~
SquareWheel
I would agree on passing standard compliance, but a great browser should allow
fluid swipes, many tabs, syncing between phones or devices, and render things
accurately and quickly. The look of the chrome is just as important as the
look of the page, and the feel of navigation is the most important of all.

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smallsharptools
Wow, if BlackBerry really thinks a better browser will help them retain more
customers they really don't get why people prefer iPhone and Android phones.
And consulting with the HTML5 team at Facebook which just rushed to quickly
rewrite their mobile apps to 100% native apps after failing to leverage an
HTML5/Native hybrid approach they are just digging the hole that much more.

The reason the iPhone is so popular is because 1) people are excited about it
2) great native apps make people excited because they do useful or fun things
quickly 3) the iPhone is part of a rich ecosystem with services for music and
apps. The iPhone ecosystem includes cloud and desktop integration along with
support from the top rated e-commerce site as well as local support with award
winner retail stores. That great customer service matters a lot to mobile
phone customers who often expect a lot from their phones. With BlackBerry you
get a phone from a carrier which has a poorly trained sales staff which cannot
help you and often does not care. If I have an issue with my iPhone I can go
into a nearby Apple Store and have my issues resolved quickly, and if
necessary, they give me replacement hardware. And BlackBerry is putting out a
better web browser? Better than what? Better than the poor browser they had
previously I suppose. Apple has had a great browser from the beginning.
BlackBerry does not get it. And if they want to catch up they need to do more
than tweak their system. There should be an entire ecosystem built around it,
but it is already too late. Android is already eating up all the space which
Apple has not and Windows Phone is scrounging for scraps. Very little will be
left for BlackBerry. They never innovated after they reached their peak.
That's how the mighty fall. I hope Apple keeps innovating. I think they are
due to push it this coming year. More integration between the iPhone with
other aspects of our lives from TV to our cars would be great and we've
already seen rumors that is coming.

~~~
arihant
Have you even tried developing for BB10?

Converting a mobile webapp to BB10 to native app takes merely few hours. BB10
supports Phonegap out of the box (their dev tools have simulator for it). They
have their own version of something very similar to Phonegap but a little
richer. You can port any Phonegap app to BB10 and use their JS API's for
deeper integration.

BB10 is RIM betting on HTML5 for native apps as well. If they can optimize the
experience nearly as good as native Java apps - this could be the next tide.
You gotta look at the future where developing for 5-6 platforms would be a
pain. Microsoft is betting on similar approach for Windows 8.

Win is at the next tide - not the one that Apple rode 5 years ago.

~~~
nodemaker
In five years, native apps will be much better too. So it would require HTML5
apps to not only be better than native apps from now but also native apps from
the future to be considered as cool. I dont think this a very good bet since
in the end the browser itself is a native app!

~~~
ams6110
This argument has been made in every generation of thin-client vs. fat-client
technology for the past few decades. We still have both, and probably always
will: each has its strengths.

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randomfool
I've had a number of my WebKit bugs fixed by folks at RIM recently (hopefully
not because they caused them!). Thrilled that they're contributing.

I really hope their work lasts much longer than RIM.

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leoh
This is ridiculous. Let's look at the iPhone for example. There are several
browsers available, all which are highly compliant. I use Chrome, however, not
because of its compliance, but because at the moment, it's the fastest, allows
for more tabs, and just feels more fun to use. Blackberry will lose this game
because they don't know how to do good UI. And this nonsense about working
with Facebook is just laughable.

~~~
joenathan
There is only one browser available for the iPhone and several different
"skins" for that browser.

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tobiasbischoff
let's compare again. when they shipped.

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se85
I sure hope they didn't use Facebook's HTML5 expertise in building the BB10.

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WrkInProgress
I believe it was Elop who said it is now a war of ecosystems. And he was very
right.

I don't think having the best web browser is going to do much beyond making
life a little easier for early adpoters.

~~~
SwellJoe
If your ecosystem is "the entire Internet", I'd say it's a pretty good
ecosystem to start with for BB10. I'm not particularly excited about
BlackBerry, and never have been their target audience, but a good browser is
absolutely one of the most important factors in my phone decision.

I still believe in the power of the open web over closed ecosystems, despite
the billions Apple makes from their App Store. I'm hopeful that the open web
will win on the phone, just as it has begun to win on the desktop. And in that
world, it won't matter what OS you run, as long as your phone has a competent
browser. Sounds like BB10 will have a very competent browser.

That's not to say I believe RIM can pull out of this nosedive, but at least
they're making moves in the right directions, for the first time in years (I
think; I haven't seen anything else from them that makes me think they
understand the new reality of the mobile landscape).

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rileyt
As much as I would love to stop even pretending to care about dealing with
blackberry's brutal web browser, I still think that this title is way to bold
and extremely unlikely...

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hamidpalo
Passing benchmark suites doesn't matter. User experience does, and that is
still very much an unknown.

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timmclean
Even better than Firefox OS?

