
How Social Isolation Is Killing Us - e15ctr0n
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/upshot/how-social-isolation-is-killing-us.html
======
conistonwater
I like the article, but I gotta ask: why the focus on "new research"? Is "old
research" not good enough? I suppose it might not be, but some of it should
really be at least brought up.

Here's a book from 1974 [1] by Robert Weiss, whose first (sample) chapter [2]
reads very similar to the NYTimes piece, and covers many of the same issues,
even before the internet was around. In particular, it draws the line (much
more clearly than the NYTimes piece) between what it calls loneliness of
emotional isolation and loneliness of social isolation, and, to me, its
examples like the condition of married couples who moved far away are much
more salient (and convincing) than reliance on surveys and dry statements like
"loneliness can accelerate cognitive decline" and "increases risk of heart
disease by 29%".

Am I missing something?

P.S. One cool thing I learned about from reading about Cacioppo's research is
that when designing a survey about loneliness you can't ask questions like "do
you feel lonely?" because it's much too ambiguous and people end up giving
incoherent useless answers. I never thought something so basic could be so
confusing to people.

[1]
[https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/loneliness](https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/loneliness)

[2]
[https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/...](https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/9780262730419_sch_0001.pdf)

~~~
muninn_
Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way
American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods
where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we
have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their
neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again.

The national highway system was great for a nation on the brink of all-out
war. We needed to move troops, tanks, people, supplies quickly and
efficiently. This system ended up being used to separate black people from
working class whites. Naturally we have drug and violence problems in those
communities that were segregated from the more educated and affluent white
population.

Terrible. I wish I could be governor or something and make sure that we stop
this. It makes me sad.

~~~
closeparen
This is an extremely poor argument. Try starting a conversation on a Manhattan
subway. The lack of boxes between you and your fellow commuters does not make
it remotely acceptable to interact with them, nor should it.

It is much harder to meet friends who are separated by 5 miles of bus ride
than 5 miles of freeway. It is much harder to actually hear each other at a
crowded bar than someone's home, but only the very rich (or the suburban) can
afford homes large enough to host gatherings. Economic circumstances may
coerce interaction with roommates, but living with someone is more likely to
destroy your friendship than strengthen it.

I think this is a cultural/attitude thing, not really a manifestation of urban
planning.

~~~
ak217
Your argument is poor, too. I see people starting conversations in subways all
the time, and occasionally start them myself. I've never regretted it. Driving
back from work in a bunch of cars, it's of course impossible, and it's amazing
how easy it is to get angry with other drivers.

It's easier to meet people in a city, where the 5 miles of a bus ride can
cover a neighborhood of a hundred thousand people and hundreds of venues to
meet them, while the freeway ride in a suburb will cover less than ten
thousand. And what does living with someone have to do with it? We're talking
about interacting with people outside your house. I think US urban planning
has certainly sucked, and the sprawl will hurt us socially as well as
economically.

~~~
closeparen
>I see people starting conversations in subways all the time

Where? In New York, Chicago, and San Francisco, the only people who do that
are begging, preaching, or rambling incoherently. The sense of community I'll
observe on a public transit vehicle is when something has gone wrong, or when
everyone shares a look of relief after someone who was trying to start
unwanted interactions has left. Granted there are some magical moments like
the sax battle [0] that could never happen on a freeway, but did any of those
people exchange contact information or form any lasting connection?

There are people who will sit down next to you and start talking. Groups of
friends traveling together will "rescue" each other from these interactions.
People traveling solo will just get off and move to another car, or wait for
the next train. The mood afterword is "can you believe that creep?" not "wow
aren't we so connected!"

> It's easier to meet people in a city,

From a pure numbers perspective, there are more people to meet per unit area.
But are there more people to meet per travel minute by fastest viable means? I
doubt it. If we accept 50 minutes (time for a walk to bus to train journey
from mid south side to near north side Chicago by CTA), well, that is 50 miles
at 60mph.

If my friend lives in a distant suburb it is not a problem, I can drive to his
home in 10 minutes. If my friend lives in a distant urban neighborhood, I'm
looking at a 50-minute 3-segment public transit journey.

You also have less free time living in a public-transit-oriented city. A New
Yorker whose primary mode is the subway spends 90 minutes per day commuting
[1]. A national average car commuter spends just 51 [2]. What would you do
with an extra 3 hours per week? I'd see friends more often.

> And what does living with someone have to do with it?

Parent claims it is a problem that people live in separate boxes. Density does
prevent this, in that real estate contention means relatively few people can
afford their own box, but I claim that roommates of economic necessity don't
actually strengthen social ties that well, and may weaken them.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_9IMZcbKHQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_9IMZcbKHQ)

[1] [http://origin-states.politico.com.s3-website-us-
east-1.amazo...](http://origin-states.politico.com.s3-website-us-
east-1.amazonaws.com/files/Embargoed%20Hardest%20Working%20Cities%20Study.pdf)

[2] [https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-
us/embed.html#5.00/42...](https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-
us/embed.html#5.00/42.000/-89.500)

~~~
btmorex
If you're the type of person who thinks it's creepy for a random stranger to
start a conversation with you, a random stranger (who's not a creep) will
never start a conversation with you.

------
navait
From my perspective, I think most people want to be socially isolated, or at
the very least, never change their social bubble. After completing school, I
didn't want to be lonely when living in the working world. So I bought a few
books on socializing, picked up swing dance, went to meetups, took adult
education classes and volunteered in the US election.

After 16 months of continuous practice, I have made 0 friends. Conversations
with strangers, yes. I got contact information, was religious about following
up, but people who agreed to do something with me in the future suddenly
didn't respond to my messages. Attempted to have a few gatherings at my
apartment and despite the people I invited saying they would come, nobody
showed up.

Why even bother if people won't meet you a tenth of the way?

~~~
tdfx
Just like anything else, people want social interactions that are stimulating
and rewarding. Being around other people for the sake of being around other
warm bodies is typically not very interesting for most people.

Who has no shortage of friends? People with obvious value propositions. Rich
or influential people. Well connected people. Good looking people. People who
already have a lot of friends. It's strange to think about it in economic
terms, but I've found it's a very useful abstraction.

~~~
navait
I am rich, and don't have many friends.

~~~
tdfx
Well, money itself really doesn't put you ahead. You can be a rich guy who
owns a bunch of real estate and nobody would notice. Buy the Miss USA pageant
and all of a sudden lots of beautiful girls really want to get to know you. If
you're not that rich, settle for being the money guy of a popular nightclub.

------
mmanfrin
We are pack animals, it is why dogs evolved in to our family. Isolation is a
severance from our natural social state and is hurtful. I think one of the
great benefits of the internet is that it is possible to meet and befriend
people outside of the normal social routes. It is not a cure for isolation,
but friends you game with or chat with or share stupid stories with is a help.

The problem is that reddit and digg killed the conventional forum, so no one
really cares who you are any more (unlike when people would start to 'know'
regular posters on forums). Now it's a crapshoot of random people and a
smattering of comment replies if people vote on your comment. No personality,
no real interaction.

~~~
paulpauper
traditional forums still exist

the problem with reddit is that there is too much news, outrage, and hype
there.

~~~
mmanfrin
They still exist, but they have been dying. There are a few niche forums that
still hold on to users, but the proliferation of subreddits leaks people away.

I visit no forums today, whereas when I grew up it was a majority of my
online-life.

~~~
no_wizard
I agree with this wholly. I used to play chess on a service called FICS and it
had a decent social scene in some ways for someone who was growing up geek in
a town that wasn't really giving avenues for it (I grew up in the rural
Midwest...it's no rural south but it's not great either) I went back recently
and it's usershio is wwaaaay down

~~~
sirclueless
Well, I think like every other loosely federated communication system from the
90s (except email), the scene has moved on to a couple proprietary platforms
providing a better user experience. lichess.org and chess.com have pretty good
scenes now, and you can still make friends there.

~~~
no_wizard
Thanks for those recs I'm checking theM out now!

------
Baeocystin
It's articles like this that genuinely make me wonder if I'm a weirdo because
I actually prefer to be alone when at all possible.

And I like people! I have no trouble engaging in small talk while getting to
know new folks. But man, they wear me out. Even ones I love. At the end of the
day, I need aloneness if I'm going to recharge for tomorrow's challenges.

~~~
enraged_camel
That's the very definition of introversion, and it's perfectly OK.

But even introverts need _some_ social interaction.

~~~
soroso
They do, but not the same type or intensity of extroverts. That's another
facet of what I call "extrovert's dictatorship". Extroverts just assume that
their way of doing social interaction is the healthy and correct one.

------
noobermin
Often times, admitting loneliness makes one look "needy" or "desperate" and
even less desirable for a friendly relationship. It's almost a catch-22.

------
aschearer
If you find this interesting you may enjoy The Village Effect[1] by Susan
Pinker. It's a more in-depth look at this phenomenon.

If social isolation is as deadly as smoking or not exercising, should we
approach the problem with a similar level of seriousness? Maybe we need
"social exercise" three times a week, and if we aren't getting it naturally
should contrive a way to get it much like going to the gym.

[1]: [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18167005-the-village-
eff...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18167005-the-village-effect)

------
bvinc
I think it's valuable to think about this problem from an evolutionary
perspective. Almost every problem we have can be viewed this way.

We should be asking ourselves how we were living 100,000 years ago. This is
what our bodies and our brains are expecting. The whole concept of the nuclear
family and a house and a fence is a completely foreign concept to our bodies
because we haven't been doing it for very many generations.

From what I know, we should be living in tribes, right?

From that perspective, I would immediately look at communal housing solutions.
Maybe we should often be living in very small apartments with communal living
areas and communal eating and cooking areas. That's closer to what our bodies
and minds expect, right?

~~~
ams6110
If that's the way we "should" be living, why then as a society did we mostly
chose to live separately in family units? It must have a survival advantage or
we would have stopped doing it.

~~~
chillacy
That's the wrong way to think of it. Rather, it must not be a crippling
survival disadvantage or we would have stopped doing it. And happiness doesn't
necessarily correlate with survival either.

I don't remember the name, but in an anthro class we discussed a culture where
children were married as infants and raised together. This ends up being
suboptimal because the kids identify each other as siblings and biology
basically interferes with them developing a romantic relationship. As a result
they end up taking romantic partners outside the arranged marriage. But hey,
it still produces kids so the culture continued on, even with this suboptimal
practice.

Likewise for tribes who practiced eating the brains of the deceased. It gives
you a neurodegenerative disease, but the incubation period is sufficiently
long so that you can still keep your population up.

------
gexla
One of the biggest differences of the Philippines that I noticed on arrival
was how many people are out and walking around in neighborhoods and around the
city in general. One of the first comments my friend made when moving from the
Philippines to the US was that she never saw people because everyone was
either in their cars or their houses.

Personally, I love being alone. I don't get lonely though. It's from my social
life where all my bad and unhealthy habits come from. So, I would say it's a
wash for me.

------
okreallywtf
One observation I've had: I feel/have felt more isolated when I don't have
close connections with people around me but I am around a lot of people. I
grew up in a really rural area and spent a lot of time outside alone and never
felt isolated in nature. However once you get out in the city, get an internet
connection etc, all the sudden you do feel isolated.

Also, does anyone else like it when the power goes out? Its so surreal to be
in the city without power (I'm used to it in the country however) and all the
sudden everyone is on their porch or out in the street chatting. Then it comes
on and everyone goes back into their little isolation chambers.

~~~
goblin89
> I feel/have felt more isolated when I don't have close connections with
> people around me but I am around a lot of people.

I really like Venkat’s write-up about masks[0]. Large cities, dense yet
impersonal, strain our voice masks. Smaller communities, what you likely
experienced in the rural area when you were not outside alone, can be
psychologically healing but on the other hand strain our exit masks. Everyone
has their own tipping point—you seem less susceptible to exit mask stress than
me, for example.

[0] [http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/05/20/pretending-to-care-
pret...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/05/20/pretending-to-care-pretending-
to-agree/)

------
peter303
Last year the New York Times ran an article on New Yorks Potters cemetery
called Hart Island. Die without someone to make arrangements and the city
efficiently buries you in this indigent cemetery. Sometimes people are not
discovered dead for weeks until the rotting smell in their multiple housing
becomes too strong for neighbors. The Times tracked down acquaintances and
relatives of these people. They never knew these people had died. The city
doent try too hard to find such relatives.

------
otakucode
If we were to do something kooky and nutty like abandon centralized large
corporate offices as our primary places of work, and instead the majority of
us worked from home, that would result in many people spending several hour a
day in their local neighborhood rather than sitting in their car. I expect
local communities would be revitalized simply by default because people would
finally be PRESENT instead of commuting and spending the majority of their
waking hours far away from their local community. Just another way that the
death of our antiquated 'way of work' that was optimal for manufacturing and
assembly lines but downright ludicrous now will benefit everyone. Well, except
for middle managers. They'll mostly be automated out of a job. Have to get
their heart attacks the old fashioned way I guess.

~~~
Ensorceled
This is interesting in that many people get their only social interaction from
their co-workers. Work from home would just isolate them even more.

~~~
otakucode
That would only be true if human beings were not fundamentally social
creatures by nature. Working from home, it should be remembered, was the
default state of mankind from the beginning of time up until the rise of
factories a little over a century ago. It is tempting, but I think a mistake,
to assume that people currently isolate themselves out of desire rather than
out of consequence of long commutes, the psychological fatigue of the modern
workplace, etc.

Just look at different age groups. Children are isolated forcibly by their
parents, so they're not informative. Adolescents, though, take great pains to
avoid isolation even though their parents and society generally goes to great
lengths to try to impose it upon them. Retired people do not generally isolate
themselves (there are, of course, exceptions). It's only the working stiffs
that tend to isolate themselves. And even that is mostly a modern phenomenon.
It might be down to people being satisfied with social media as their means of
socializing, but I doubt it.

------
hasbot
Odd that we see so many articles like this on HN.

Do the studies factor in introverts vs. extroverts? Do the studies factor in
intelligence? Do the studies factor in people that have been alone for nearly
all their life? And what about pets? Are they useful in alleviating
loneliness?

------
gabomagno03
For anyone reading, really feeling lonely and having the means yo affort it.
Come and visit a country like Colombia, we love having people over and making
friends (really honest and helpful ones) is what we do best. I met an Austrian
girl last week who told me she never felt as much in home as the next day she
landed here. She now quit his tech job in Europe and moved here.

------
jokoon
When I was starting to use facebook in 2007, I thought it was the greatest
thing ever to meet people and do things.

I still think that the internet can make people who live near each other meet
and socialize. I don't understand why no site like this is being created, and
why facebook has become so alienating instead of becoming a site that
encourage exclusivity between friends. People are really adopting the jetset
attitude of social circles, always excluding the more people they can because
they think it will improve their social life.

I have thought so long and hard about my isolation, I also had the idea of: *
building new types of apartments where people live together, instead of
individual apartment that make you feel you are in a prison cell, unable to
see your neighbor. People eat together, but they still have their bedrooms and
private space. Basically you make life collective instead of individual. You
reduce costs, so it's another incentive for people with low income. * Renting
large apartments with many bedrooms and organizing life with people inside of
it. * organizing regular meals for 10 people at a time, to improve food
quality and make people eat together.

I'm really tempted to create this kind of real life, "open" social website
where you can do things with people based on proximity and maps. There are a
million things people can do in the context of a sharing economy. It would be
targeted towards isolated people so that they can find each others.

~~~
karmelapple
meetup.com is a great website focused on helping people who live near each
other meet and socialize. Highly recommend it.

~~~
jokoon
Only around specific and punctual activities, and it's mostly city centric,
not location or neighbor centric.

~~~
karmelapple
Specific and punctual activities? Getting together to chat with like-minded
individuals does require showing up at the right time, yes. But like, how else
will you meet people? You have to agree to show up at a time.

The topics I discuss at meetups I attend - software development, business
development, and just geeky folks who like to discuss what they're hacking on
- don't particularly have punctuality needs.

You have to organize it by some location metric. It would be cool to have more
options - let the Meetup folks know what you'd like!

------
peter303
I wonder how much this is due to living in a big city like New York where
there is pretty good availability of basic living services whether government
or private. Services like housing, health, food. Then you not really need to
build social netwrks to live. Great for loner types then.

------
jsemrau
Only few things made me feel more isolated than using Facebook. Living newly
in Tokyo, having a hard time making new friends, everyone seemed to live these
wild an exciting lives. Left the service, the disconnect from my old friends
made it easier, made new ones. A new life commenced.

------
topherb
Ultimately, you can't treat social as a science, think of it as faith, as an
never ending improv performance.

There are four ways to create a social life:

Fake it till its fact - be someone else until it feels like you

Be artistic - find an expressive outlet you enjoy and find other people who
express the same way

Be vulnerable and live in moments - take every loss and win with a grain of
salt, acknowledge something happened then move on. No moment has more emphasis
than others, they are just lily pads for you to jump on and off.

Think outward, not in - react to what people say or do without introspection,
trust what you already intrinsically know/feel

------
carsongross
_A great paradox of our hyper-connected digital age is that we seem to be
drifting apart. Increasingly, however, research confirms our deepest
intuition: Human connection lies at the heart of human well-being. It’s up to
all of us — doctors, patients, neighborhoods and communities — to maintain
bonds where they’re fading, and create ones where they haven’t existed._

Robert Putnam has written extensively on this issue and the underlying causes:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam)

------
Nomentatus
Don't underestimate the social value of consistency - being in the same place
at the same time very reliably. Then those who decide you're interesting can
come back and visit again. You may have to put in a lot of hours before
anything happens, but at least it can happen. Even if it's just buying a
coffee and drinking it at the same place and time every day.

------
acd
There is the blue zones were people are living the longest in the world.
Besides eating healthy a lot of those places has a strong local community
where you can connect.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone)

People are staring down in the cell phone screens instead of talking to
strangers in social environments. Plus if one is looking at the phone one is
not that approachable. Apps can connect people but also disconnect humans.
Time for a debate on how to use new tech in a positive manner.

Even people that know each other sometime disconnect through tech for example
friends going to a cafe together instead of talking using their cell phones.

We are using GPS instead of asking others for directions.

Robots are replacing cashiers and simple jobs at service desks.

------
Ericson2314
I'm glad so much of the discussion here is about suburbanization. As a staunch
urbanist I want to beleive this is a huge cause, but I must admit the "alone
in New York" counter-narrative is also compelling. I think I have to
speculations on reconciling the two.

First, I think we can agree that frequent interactions with another is a
necessary (if not sufficient) condition for friendship. If so, it should be
obvious that density is good but size is bad.

Second, I believe our major metros—especislly since the great
invertion—attract a certain sort of person less likely to foster community.
Your steriotypical new gentrifier is career-focused with strong sense of
individuality, moving for work, and, perhaps most importantly, fresh out of
school where making friends presents very different challenges.

------
paulpauper
imho the problem is more to do with boredom and unfulfillment than isolation

------
ssaddi
This is a well written article. I agree that this problem is growing, due to
less social interaction and more reliance on social media tools and apps. This
is not good for society

------
theideasmith
It is very important this research was shared. However, the very difficult and
likely impossible part is to actually change the emotional and interpersonal
ethos of society. Given the very intangible nature of the problem, no one in
power will care enough to initiate a national program to motivate such social
change. Therefore, it must come from us, the people. We ought to stand to the
call and do something of value to nudge society towards a more interactive
state.

------
0xcde4c3db
How clear is it that the isolation actually precedes the disease rather than
potentially being a symptom? A disease process doesn't pop into existence when
the condition is diagnosed, and diagnosis often doesn't occur before the
condition leads to some kind of crisis. Many conditions' symptoms include
depressed mood and fatigue, which tend to reduce social activity.

------
known
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility)
!=
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility)

------
quickpost
That Linkages site appears to be limited to only California and Oregon. If
you're outside that area, I found another site that looks similar with a
broader network of opportunities to help Senior Citizens:

[http://www.elderhelpers.org/](http://www.elderhelpers.org/)

------
faragon
It is easier being egotistical when someone is able to live alone with enough
comfort. I guess that it could be somehow "solved" with tax discounts by
having kids, by sharing home with elder people, or even by sharing home in
general, in general.

------
neves
Maybe American culture of families living far away is a bad one. In other
countries, like Italy and Brazil, there are social unities that stay together
all their life. Families that just meet at Thanksgiving is weird.

------
johndoez
Anecdotally, and with the risk of the greatest generalisation, in my
experience Protestant countries tend to be far more atomised than Catholic
ones.

------
nathan_f77
I'm an introvert. I'm also a remote worker, and I no longer attend church. I
was very involved in the church when I was growing up, so I'm well aware that
my life is now lacking something, in terms of connection and a sense of
community.

I've recently been searching for some alternatives. There's Unitarian
Universalists [1], who welcomes people from any faith, including atheists and
agnostics. You can discuss any religion openly, and they have regular services
on Sunday where you can socialize, enjoy some music, and listen to a speaker.

There's also the Rotary Club [2], where people regularly meet for meals, and
work to help their community. Then there's the Freemasons, but I don't think
that's for me.

I might like to organize a secular humanist "church" or club with regular
meetings and meals. I think it would be nice to have discussions about
philosophy and science, maybe watch some documentaries and talks together, and
have a book club.

Another random thought on the topic of isolation: St. John's runs a "caring
caller" [3] service in New Zealand, where people can volunteer to call elderly
people on the phone, and just have conversations with them. If I'm ever back
in New Zealand, I think I would like to get involved with that.

Also in New Zealand: The High Street Cohousing project [4] in Dunedin. I think
it's a fantastic idea. I love the idea of a shared community space, and the
sustainability. I'm seriously thinking about getting involved, or maybe I can
buy one of the houses in the future.

I enjoy living in Chiang Mai, and it's not too hard to meet people here. There
are plenty of meetups and groups to join. I meet a lot of digital nomads who
come and go, but my wife and I have a small group of friends that are living
here long term. There's also a Rotary Club here that we have been thinking
about joining.

My wife and I have also been rewatching Gilmore Girls. We agree that it would
be really nice to live somewhere like their fictional town of Stars Hollow, in
Connecticut. The main reason is to be part of a close-knit community, but also
because that area has distinct seasons (especially fall and winter), beautiful
architecture, history, and close proximity to New York. I ended up reading
quite a lot of articles and blog posts from people who want the same thing,
and have visited similar towns in Connecticut. One blog post was a bit
depressing [5]. They are saying that this town could never exist, because of
big-box stores like Walmart who are killing many small businesses.

YC has a plan to build a new city, so I hope they are thinking about these
things. I think the issues of community and isolation might be more important
than anything else.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism)

[2] [https://www.rotary.org/en](https://www.rotary.org/en)

[3] [http://www.stjohn.org.nz/What-we-do/Community-
programmes/Car...](http://www.stjohn.org.nz/What-we-do/Community-
programmes/Caring-Caller/)

[4] [http://highstreetcohousing.nz/](http://highstreetcohousing.nz/)

[5] [https://thecompletistblog.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/stars-
hol...](https://thecompletistblog.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/stars-hollow/)

------
throwaway27182
I wonder if intelligence and propensity-to-learn gaps are major causes of
social isolation among us here. I feel that they are two of the most important
factors affecting my social life, from childhood up to now. The times I felt
less socially isolated had always been when I studied or worked among some of
the more intelligent and eager-to-learn people. And it gets more pronounced as
I grow more mature and have spent more time learning and thinking.

I found this out a few years ago and thought it might be pertinent to my
situation: _“Observation shows that there is a direct ratio between the
intelligence of the leader and that of the led. To be a leader of his
contemporaries a child must be more intelligent but not too much more
intelligent than those to be led… But generally speaking, a leadership pattern
will not form—or it will break up—when a discrepancy of more than about 30
points of IQ comes to exist between leader and led_ [1]

I grew up in a developing country with inadequate educational system, to put
it mildly. I have always done well academically, ranking top 10 nation-wide in
two middle school exams. I got impatient and skipped two years of high school
to attend a local college, which is considered a 'good' one. (I picked it for
personal reasons, while having the 'national entrance exam' score high enough
to pick the top university in the country.) I became increasingly aware of how
much most people think differently in those years, as I could ace most
analytical tests without putting much efforts and my friends struggled. We
remained good friends but we shared few interests and not much in common
intellectually. (I can perform most other activities, like sports or dance,
fairly well given the little amount of time I spend on them, but I find most
of them boring.)

Then I got a scholarship to study in a top 10 CS graduate departments in the
US. I found out that there are many more people who share my interests and we
can interact on equal terms intellectually. I moved back to the country after
graduation and started to suffer social isolation again.

I dated someone who is a bit above average in intelligence but did not have
the patience to explain everything so we parted away soon after. I had since
have trouble finding people who I can be myself with in most respects
intellectually and can explain my thought process concisely and get them to
give interesting responses back in turn. For friends, it's not as big a
problem since we usually don't have to see each other that often; but for
dates, I think it might be a problem after a while. (Please let me know if and
why you disagree. It would be helpful.)

Earlier this year, I went back to live for a few months in a very intellectual
city with a top university in the US and felt like I could connect with people
around me again. Unfortunately, it will take quite a bit of efforts to move
there permanently.

If anyone has a differing perspective and interpretation that I have, please
comment here. I'd love to connect better with the 'intellectually average'
people as well.

[1]
[http://www.functionalmovement.com/articles/Philosophy/2013-0...](http://www.functionalmovement.com/articles/Philosophy/2013-03-08_the_standard_deviation_of_communication)

------
potatoman2
Getting married helps.

------
TheOneTrueKyle
I have been "lonely" most of my life. I have lived in a terrible town growing
up where everyone lived on the other side of town.

I went to college where nothing was happening and nothing is really
interesting and I didn't connect with anyone really.

Now, I am reaching 30, and have spent the most of my 20s trying to find a way
to move to a place that will make me happy. I'm hoping this will eventually
happen, but I have lost a lot of hope.

I don't feel connected to humans whatsoever. However, the greatest joy for me
is sitting in front of my computer interacting with you folk.

I don't get social interaction...

~~~
edpichler
Man, could I give an advice to you? Don't expect too much from other people,
and try you to create "events" and invite some people, with similar interests,
to join with you. Don't worry about the "no"s you will receive, pay attention
to the "yes". The change start on you. This works for me.

~~~
TheOneTrueKyle
I mean I still try and I give more than I receive for sure, but nothing seems
to be working.

For the first half of my 20s I didn't leave the house under the assumption
that, "if I work hard, I can live where I want to and find a job in a cool
place. No reason to make friends now."

I have since replaced that assumption, but it's hard to find meaningful
relationships in a place you despise.

~~~
soneca
Do you despise all people living in the place you live now?

Take this lightly, but I bet you can find at least one more person that
"despises" your place and you can discuss that with them. :)

~~~
TheOneTrueKyle
I will say that my limited connections comes from mutual hate and not mutual
interests.

Not sure if that is good or bad.

~~~
soneca
My (not so limited) connections come from continuously contact, not common
interests or hates.

Very different, oposing views and values can break a relationship. Very
similar views cannot make them - only if this similarity leads to continuous
contact.

My friends come from: childhood neighboors, two student organizations I was
part of and college soccer team. Each of these environments allowed for years
long contact with the same people. And from that came friendships. Not from
similar anything.

Friendships are born from tedious hours of boring conversation with random
people that only happened because no one there had nothing else better to do.

That comfortable feeling of having a meaningful relationship only comes years
after that.

~~~
yomly
Agree with this, circumstance can accelerate this process: sharing some mutual
experience like going on a tour or living in a foreign country can leave you
making friends with people you would probably never have associated with back
home

~~~
karmelapple
As mentioned elsewhere: meetup.com

If you live in a community too small to have a meetup, make one yourself and
see if anyone attends. I did it, fully expecting not a single person to show
up. I met so many people through that, starting in a community of under 70,000
people.

------
brilliantcode
Social isolation is a huge problem. There's stigma around declaring it.

I'm doing my part to address this problem right now:

    
    
        Any HN'ers in downtown Vancouver reading this post, let's
        grab coffee near Robson Square. My email is in my profile
        and synced to my phone so I will reply promptly.
    

I've been just reading principles.com (from the other HN thread) and
_inspired_ to take action.

~~~
finid
To some extent, Meetups help. It's not just an opportunity to hear about the
latest in a filed that you have an interest in, but also an avenue to meet-
and-greet.

~~~
brilliantcode
I always found Meetups impersonal and difficult to socialize in large crowds
due to my debilating social anxiety.

Btw, nobody showed up yesterday but I haven't given up. I'm here from 9am ~
5pm near Robson Square. Coffee (or tea) is on me.

If you are not in Vancouver then shoot me an email, you can talk about
anything.

~~~
matt101589
I found Meetup to be the same way for me. So I'm starting something that
allows you to limit how many people can join and have the option to create
plans without needing a Meetup Group. Check it out TheCoopApp.com and let me
know what you think.

~~~
brilliantcode
interesting idea. is this native or pwa?

~~~
matt101589
pwa

------
FrancoDiaz
To know your dying, and to have no one in your life is a very scary place to
be in.

~~~
shorttime
Why's that? Nobody will be sad when you do so there's that silver lining.

