
Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades - tejado
https://m.dw.com/en/germany-conducts-first-nationwide-emergency-warning-day-in-decades/a-54877137
======
taejo
Correction to the article: the annual test day will be the second Thursday in
September, not always the tenth.

I don't understand why Cell Broadcast is not used. Surely many people don't
have the app installed? I'd never heard of it and I've lived in this country
the whole time it's been available.

~~~
mschuster91
> I don't understand why Cell Broadcast is not used

Because of utterly dumb people in charge:
[https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/warntag-zum-
ziv...](https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/warntag-zum-zivil-und-
katastrophenschutz-wir-haben-eine-sehr-unvorbereitete-
bevoelkerung-a-1def33a4-a1aa-467e-ac24-7aa56715530d)

> Unger: Ja, die Niederlande zum Beispiel setzen auf dieses Cell-Broadcast-
> System. Wir haben davon Abstand genommen, weil die Mobilfunknetze - wie man
> etwa an Silvester sieht - im Fall der Fälle nicht ausreichen. Hinzu kommt
> ein datenschutzrechtliches Problem. Wenn man direkt die Handys ansteuert,
> werden auch Bewegungsdaten erfasst. Wir setzen daher auf die App...

To roughly translate: cell broadcast has a data protection problem, because
directly notifying cellphones leads to movement data being recorded. Also
cellphone networks don't have the capacity, as can be seen every new year's
eve.

Just... what the fuck! What an utterly incompetent idiot.

~~~
_Microft
Feedback: this comment might have fared better if it hadn't contained
completely unnecessary insults.

~~~
Grumbledour
As a fellow German, I can understand the anger, though.

Basically, we don't have a warning system anymore, because the pieces that are
left are mostly being dismantled (sirens, tv and radio) and all they seem to
want to replace it with is an app that doesn't reliably work when the network
is fine.

Lets be honest, if catastrophy should strike here, we would be last to know.

~~~
mschuster91
This x100. It's an utter catastrophe. We had a fully working siren network (at
least across Western Germany), and after the end of the Cold War it all got
left to rot to pieces - estimates for rebuilding it are well into the hundreds
of millions of euro range.

And then the whole radio clusterfuck. AM radio got totally torn down years ago
to "cut costs", there's always discussions to dismantle plain old FM radio too
and only serve DAB+ instead, which doesn't have nearly the buildout level
compared to plain old FM radio.

I'm sick of this shit. Three decades and all what we had went down the drain.
It's the same for coronavirus response - back in cold war times we had massive
rolling stockpiles of everything, especially of PPE... but again, it all got
eliminated to "cut costs".

~~~
mattmanser
I really am struggling to understand why it's a big deal? Honestly asking,
what's the thought process behind the worth of maintaing one? TV channels and
radio stations will just broadcast a breaking news thing. Websites will have
notices. I'm entirely unclear why you'd need an emergency broadcast system? Or
place so much emphasis on its importance?

What would you use it for? And why would having one that worked over AM or
even FM be worth anything? People don't buy those radios any more. What
difference does it make?

What you're describing sounds like a massive white elephant that was probably
worthless even in the cold war. A proverbial safety blanket.

~~~
dividedbyzero
In case of, say, fire at a chemical plant, it may be important that people
downwind get notified right away, there might not be very much time to get
inside, close windows etc. Same for collapsed dams, radiological accidents,
that sort of thing. Sirens can do that very well. Other channels are much less
reliable (people might not have a news website open on their computer, might
not be looking at their phone to catch that notification, etc.)

Radio is important because it's so widespread and low-tech. Pretty much every
car has a receiver that can run for ages, there are inexpensive emergency ones
that can be powered by crank and solar, so even in prolonged power outages, as
long as the stations remain powered, and someone in your neighbourhood has a
working receiver, it's still useful and pretty low-cost, since the
infrastructure is already there.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
I'd think in case of radiological accidents it would be policy to NOT use
them, to avoid panic. I fully expect road barriers /
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordon_sanitaire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordon_sanitaire)
to be implemented, if one happens here and word of that gets out.

------
moepstar
Today, somewhere in Bavaria:

I'm at work, phone goes off - significant other on the line.

"Our smoke alarms just went off and i'm running around, trying to turn them
off"

I'm like "Ooook, have you been cooking?" \- "No, nothing, been working and it
just went off, also no smoke anywhere to be seen".

Scratching my head, looking at my watch, 10:39 (alarms where supposed to go
off at around 11:00).

So, we currently have 6 connected fire alarms around the house (Hekatron
Genius Plus X + Base Funk (radio) module, so they're connected).

They're not connected to anything besides themselves, so i _really_ wondered
how and why they'd go off for this test alert.

Thing is, the smoke alarms _do_ have a notion of what time it is as they turn
off the flashing light from 9PM to 7AM, so i wasn't quick to dismiss them
catching the publicly broadcasted signal and go off too...

Scratching my head even further, i figured i'd give Hekatron a call - the guy
on the hotline tried really hard to keep his calm but chuckled and said it
basically was just a coincidence and if the one that triggered the alarm would
go off again i could basically RMA it.

Lesson learned, coincidences do happen, also people do win the lottery after
all :)

------
_Microft
Tests like this have been conducted on smaller scale in the past, either on
Landkreis (county) level or state level. Some towns even test their fire
sirens once per month. What makes this newsworthy is that it is conducted
"nationwide". Beside that, it's not such a special thing.

~~~
sdoering
Additionally it also includes other channels, like national television, radio
and warning apps on smart phones.

This is something, that localized test runs normally do not include.

~~~
_Microft
That's correct.

------
mauz0r
People in The Netherlands are used to this sound, hearing it every first
Monday of the month at noon for the last 17 years now.

I wonder how effective this will work in case of real trouble.

[https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/terrorismebestrijdi...](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/terrorismebestrijding/vraag-
en-antwoord/wanneer-wordt-de-sirene-getest)

~~~
jiehong
Bavaria here, and every first Saturday the siren goes off for testing purposes
as well. This was supposed to be bigger scale though.

Haven’t heard anything today.

~~~
amadeuspagel
I'm also in bavaria and did hear it. Probably a problem in your city, not in
all of bavaria.

------
lqet
Meh, the sirens are tested here twice a year. This is the case in many areas.
Where my parents live, they are tested every 3 months.

More interestingly, the federal government is realizing that it may have been
a mistake to dismantle the sirens in many areas after the Cold War ended,
mainly because things likes TV, radio or app messages cannot warn people at
night, when their devices are off. I have heard of 3 possible fixes that are
discussed:

a) build more sirens again

b) use the mandatory smoke detectors in every home for a warning system

c) use car alarms or car horns

It would be interesting to see how b) and c) are implemented without any
concerns regarding security or potential for misuse.

~~~
tejado
Your are right, that a lot of cities are doing it regulary. The interessting
point here is, that there are cities that have no sirens anymore due to the
removal after the cold war. So such a nationwide test will help to check the
efficiency and to modernize/rebuild the system where needed.

//edit: same info was added to head comment.

------
tyteen4a03
Am in Berlin, heard absolutely nothing, not even a push from the NINA
(emergencies) app. Is this thing on? _tap tap_

~~~
detaro
Berlin doesn't use sirens, so that part was to be expected. The latter...
maybe also to be expected (government app...), but that was supposed to alert.
Guess that's why we need to run tests...

~~~
tyteen4a03
This is strange because I always get notifications on heavy rain (where in
Hong Kong we call a drizzle)

------
docdeek
> Air raid sirens sounded for one straight minute starting at 11 a.m., testing
> their tones full blast before varying the pitch of the tone.

The sirens are tested in Lyon, France on the first Wednesday of every month.
It’s nothing too out of the ordinary but interesting that Germany hasn’t done
it in so long.

~~~
silvester23
As others in this thread have noted, sirens are tested (at least) once a year
locally. What makes this special is that it is a centralized test for the
whole country with other channels being tested as well (TV, Radio, mobile
app).

Where I live, it was rather underwhelming. I probably would not have noticed
if I hadn't known about it before which may be a bad sign, to be honest.

------
raxxorrax
That would have been 15 minutes ago and it seems that nothing happened.

~~~
tejado
Not all cities have a sirene. Do you have and apps like NINA or KATWARN?

~~~
danieldk
You need an app? In The Netherlands they use whatever emergency warning system
is built-in in iOS and Android.

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202743](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT202743)

~~~
Filligree
It can't be done with an app. Those are always subject to power saving, do not
disturb, etc.

Any country that doesn't use cell broadcasts is doing it wrong.

~~~
kuschku
It has to be both - many people don't have a mobile phone, and a landline
can't easily do the same, but may have a wifi-only device.

------
mseidl
I'm German and literally just heard the siren and was like, wtf? Then I check
hn and here we go! ha.

------
s_severus
This is routine next door in Austria:
[https://www.bmi.gv.at/204_english/skkm/warning.aspx](https://www.bmi.gv.at/204_english/skkm/warning.aspx)

Though I must admit I was very surprised the first time I experienced it (I
hadn't been forewarned).

------
pascalmahe
Not on the same scale but, in France, fire alarms are tested every first
Wednesday of the month at midday sharp. Though you don't hear them from
everywhere so it can still be quite a shock after a few years of not hearing
it.

------
kryptiskt
Sweden tests the emergency sirens the first Monday every month at 3PM. It's
kind of weird when we have dismantled most every other kind of preparedness.

------
Neil44
I remember when I was growing up in the UK in the 80’s we had siren tests from
time to time. It seems strange now living in the real Cold War.

------
s9w
And the official national warning app (NINA) failed

~~~
majewsky
Well, I mean, that's what you do tests for.

~~~
s9w
There's been an official response now: The system was overwhelmed because
instead of just one nation-wide alarm, several local institutions used the
system for local alarms. Which is scary: The number of local alarms was three
I read (very uncertain about that number). And the nationwide alarm came 31
minutes late. That seems unreasonable, but yeah I guess the test was
productive at least.

~~~
jansan
The whole system is flawed. They should take a look at how Japan has
implemented the J-Alert system.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-Alert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-Alert)

Cell broadcast is much more suitable than a stupid app if you want to warn
people in a certain area.

~~~
s9w
Yes, obviously using the phone network is the better idea. But realistically
the goal of these projects is not to create a working system. The goal is to
create something "new" to leech money off the federal and EU projects, which
they succesfully did.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
Why is that the better idea? What if it is hacked/DDOSed, or something?

~~~
taejo
Even better, then you can pay your pals in the consulting companies even more
to fix it.

------
ephimetheus
It just finished. Felt a bit weird actually.

~~~
ktpsns
Oh wow. Living in a medium-sized city in Germany (300k inhabitants), I did not
recieve a single message over any channel.

What a great emergency warning system!

------
solarkraft
Nobody I talked to today noticed.

