
China hacked Norway's Visma to steal client secrets - torh
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-cyber-norway-visma/china-hacked-norways-visma-to-steal-client-secrets-investigators-idUSKCN1PV141
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josteink
In Norwegian scale Visma is pretty big.

Pretty much every non-huge company uses them for accounting and other
business-crucial stuff.

Hack Visma properly and you probably have more accounting-data on the whole
nation than the IRS does.

~~~
mongol
I didn't know Visma was Norwegian. It is probably among the top 3 companies in
Sweden used for bookkeeping/accounting software, especially small to medium
sized companies.

~~~
sciolistse
Visma SPCS is Swedish, founded in the 80s. Visma bought them in the early
2000s.

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orn688
Not to detract from the gravity of the situation, but the main picture (and
caption) are amazing.

"A man holds a laptop computer as cyber code is projected on him in this
illustration picture taken on May 13, 2017."

~~~
52-6F-62
AFAIU Reuters is one of the leaders in terms of news/wire agencies for
generating things like that via machine learning and other algos.

It might be an automated choice, where the author or editor merely had to
check a few boxes before publishing to get a remotely relevant clipart and
caption, essentially. Saves a lot of time and money in an age where it's sort
of a weird abstract form that needs to be fulfilled.

-> Hed

-> Byline - Date

-> (Dek)

-> Graphic -> Caption

-> Body Copy

That is, it's not to say the system is elegant, yet....

[https://innovation.thomsonreuters.com/en/labs.html](https://innovation.thomsonreuters.com/en/labs.html)

edit: LOL. Just a few more clicks brought me to this article. I laughed.

[https://blogs.thomsonreuters.com/answerson/art-artificial-
in...](https://blogs.thomsonreuters.com/answerson/art-artificial-
intelligence/)

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operatorius
This breach happened in September 2018. More info
[https://www.recordedfuture.com/apt10-cyberespionage-
campaign...](https://www.recordedfuture.com/apt10-cyberespionage-campaign/)

official visma statement: [https://www.visma.com/press-releases/intelligence-
report-vis...](https://www.visma.com/press-releases/intelligence-report-
visma/?fbclid=IwAR1_pUJvJ9vPVkJjQu8StgKrsMiXMTgoGrA7MdW-FcFKw_5nJleUOHLXfJM)

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NightlyDev
These titles are so damn stupid. I'm so sick of "they did that", and "they did
this", when they don't know.

I've always wondered how someone comes to the conclusion that is was China,
Russia or USA who did something.

Anonymity isn't exactly hard on the internet, so how do this all play out? Are
data left behind saying something along the lines of "Hey, gotcha! Best
regards, China. Contact <person> for confirmation."? No.

"Advanced Persistent Threat 10" "Suspected attribution: China"

But, let's face it, it's not known that is was China, it might just as well be
anyone else.

Maybe people should stop being so damn stupid and use accurate headlines.

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sonnyblarney
Why doesn't the EU impose trade tariffs, sanctions or embargos on China?

China will continue to do this and laugh at the naiveté their victims.

There's no reason for them to stop until there is one.

~~~
Sabinus
Afraid of losing a large market. It's the same with Australia. OECD countries
need to band together to respond to countries abusing global trade.

~~~
Gustomaximus
EU is large enough they could do this alone. Or team up with US and really
have some firepower.

Things like this is the point of the EU, not creating swaths of regulations
about how much or little banannas can be bent.

A place like Australia (alone) could never stand up to China. They would be
too willing to make an example of a small country that crosses them. China
trade comes with huge amounts of political pride and convenience. Even if
Australia joined forces with a larger block we risk being g made an example of
like that general saying he would sink an Australian ship to send a message to
the US.

~~~
rbg246
Australia is part of ANZUS, which means if China attacked Australia, the US
would be obligated to intervene

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS)

~~~
Gustomaximus
Obliged by ANZUS, but would they really?

I feel in the past countries would stick to their commitment for the bigger
picture. Now, not so sure. I wonder if they would weigh pros and cons and
decide to withdraw or not.

~~~
rbg246
If it aligned with their national interests, yes and generally US and
Australian interests do align

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oh_sigh
What naughty thing did Norway do 250 years ago that people can use to justify
this hacking? (See references to Samuel Slater when China/Chinese nationals
hacking American firms for trade secrets is discussed).

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outworlder
These news pop up almost weekly now.

I wonder what it will take for nations to start imposing a firewall on them –
just like the one they impose on the rest of the world.

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stevev
All speculation; no proof in article.

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age_of_stone
read through the article but can't find any hard evidence pointing to China.
It makes me think that blaming China is just an easy way out when western
companies got hacked due to their own failures to secure their businesses.

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ancorevard
In China, there is no difference between international espionage and corporate
espionage. Their Ministry of State Security has proved this again and again.

Stealing intellectual property from companies advances their military goals.

~~~
markdown
Thankfully, the biggest threat to the individual is a sprinkling of privacy
invasion and the odd blackmail. They're miles behind the US on that front.

They won't come and bomb your country to dust to benefit corporate goals like
getting access to oil for profit, or massive defence contracts.

~~~
vertline3
"Thankfully, the biggest threat to the individual is a sprinkling of privacy
invasion and the odd blackmail."

They have prison camps for political dissidents.

~~~
markdown
That's a red herring.

This thread is about the use of Chinese state resources to advance the
interests of Chinese companies.

~~~
EliRivers
You're the one who opened the door. If you can't take it, don't hand it out.

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aszantu
was more work for hackers to hack every single device xD now they're just
hacking one big server farm

