
‘Invisible barcodes’ could improve sorting of recycling [video] - sohkamyung
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-50335737/could-invisible-barcodes-revolutionise-recycling
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shaftway
I've always wished that you could get a separate IR channel in phone cameras.
Combine this with IR ink or IR channels on video feeds and you've got
invisible QR codes. I suspect there's huge potential for being able to point
your phone at content and have it magically link to data about the product /
show / ad / event / whatever.

~~~
IIAOPSW
Phone cameras _can_ see in IR. A classic trick to test if your TV remote is
working is to look at the LED through a digital camera while pressing a
button. Try it right now if you don't believe me.

What's missing is screens which can display meta information in the IR
channel. I say we call the image format IRGB.

~~~
RandallBrown
iPhones have IR filters over them so that doesn't work anymore unfortunately.

~~~
stephen_g
On my iPhone 7 at least, the rear camera seems to have an IR filter but the
front one does not (or perhaps it has a filter but is less effective). So I
can still test remotes in 'selfie' mode.

~~~
mattkrause
Doesn’t FaceID use structured IR light? If so, at least one of the cameras
won’t have a filter.

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ars
Isn't this a solved problem? I thought different plastics can be accurately
differentiated by multispectral imaging?

i.e. that the problem with recycling isn't in identifying the plastic, it's in
separating and cleaning it?

Plus recycling plastic is pointless - it's environmentally better to burn
plastic for energy.

~~~
birdyrooster
> Plus recycling plastic is pointless - it's environmentally better to burn
> plastic for energy.

Source please? This seems very counter intuitive.

~~~
coldtea
[https://www.citytosea.org.uk/plastic-recycling-doesnt-
work/](https://www.citytosea.org.uk/plastic-recycling-doesnt-work/)

"For some products, recycling is an effective solution. Aluminium cans and
glass, for example, are infinitely recyclable and can be reprocessed in the
UK. But for plastics, it’s a different story.

For one thing, there are so many types of plastic it makes it hard to sort
correctly. Consumers inadvertently mix recyclable and non-recyclable plastics
in the same box, which contaminates the load and requires there to be further
sorting and segregating, which not all collectors do, and effects the value
and re-usability of the plastic when it’s resold. "

[https://www.insider.com/mit-research-andrew-mcafee-says-
recy...](https://www.insider.com/mit-research-andrew-mcafee-says-recycling-is-
useless-2019-10)

"Recycling plastic uses up a lot of resources, and after all the hauling
around, sorting, and processing of bottles and containers, it often ends up
getting thrown away or burned"

One 2017 report published in Science Advances suggested only 9% of the plastic
that we ever use is recycled, while consulting firm McKinsey estimates just
16% of plastics are "reprocessed" and turned into new plastic goods.

People don't have much use for the small portion of plastic that does get
recycled anyway. In the European Union, only 6% of plastic demand is for
recycled plastics.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
That didn't seem to actually try to support the statement.

Here's another UK based meta-study that suggest recycling is always better
than incineration for plastic in the UK:

[http://www.wrap.org.uk/sites/files/wrap/Environmental_benefi...](http://www.wrap.org.uk/sites/files/wrap/Environmental_benefits_of_recycling_2010_update.3b174d59.8816.pdf)

Those are 2010 numbers so I'd guess the lower carbon grid makes the case for
recycling better.

In general incineration across multiple materials seems to do better than
landfill but worse than recycling.

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ZeroGravitas
The fundamental challenge here is creating a market.

If governments pay for recycling then they have the incentive to change it,
but no easy levers to pull to make those changes.

If they instead just bill the producers of the packaging for the cost of
recycling or landfill then there's an instant incentive for the people making
the packaging to reduce, reuse and recycle more.

Then multiple ingenious ideas like this can fight it out in the market.

Very similar to my take on carbon taxes. We have the tech, but not the market
to enable it to be deployed and developed further.

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dpflan
The project is called "Holy Grail", and the plastic embossing with the
'invisible barcodes' seems to be the cleverest part. Does anyone have
experience with this sort of technology (using or developing)?

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coolspot
This is the company providing watermarking technology:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digimarc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digimarc)

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baybal2
What I came with: take 8 fluorescent dies with machine distinguishable
fluorescence wavelengths, then you use them to code plastics. 2^8=256 enough
for all common materials

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thrower123
There's no point in recycling most things curbside. Even in the places where
the garbagemen don't grab the recycling bins and toss them in with the
landfill trash, the things that curbside recycling takes are easier, cheaper,
and better to just make new.

It's not like it's steel, or lead-acid batteries.

