
“TPP Is the Most Brazen Corporate Power Grab in American History” - lisper
http://www.alternet.org/economy/chris-hedges-tpp-most-brazen-corporate-power-grab-american-history
======
oldmanjay
It's a power grab by specific industries _and_ several governments, not 'the
corporations' as an amorphous concept. Mischaracterizing the shittiness of TPP
to score rhetorical points for favored politics is a sorry trick, and it lends
an air of intellectual dishonesty to a very important topic.

~~~
kobayashi
I don't know about you, but I don't expect anything more from alternet.

~~~
api
I wish people understood that hyperbole weakens their position.

It's an example of the seen vs. the unseen. What they see when they do this is
lots and lots of clicks and lots of attention on social media, and that's
interpreted as a win. What they don't see is all the more mature and informed
people being swayed _in the other direction_ since they understand that
hyperbole signifies a lack of deeper comprehension.

~~~
JoshTriplett
> I wish people understood that hyperbole weakens their position.

Depends on the audience. Hyperbole won't convince anyone who fundamentally
disagrees with you; you need a reasoned argument for that. But hyperbole can
work wonders on people already slightly inclined towards your position but not
yet acting on it.

~~~
api
I'm inclined to be suspicious of things like the TPP, but the hyperbole I see
actually makes me wonder if it's a lot more benign.

Of course there's a deeper underlying reason in my case: I am very deeply
cynical about "activists" regardless of their political bent. Left, right, up,
down, doesn't matter-- I've long observed that activists are True Believers
for whom the victory of a pet ideology is more important than truth or
reality. It really is equal opportunity: I am about as skeptical of
Greenpeace's latest claim as I am of the religious right's recent "abortion
doctors are selling chopped up fetus parts" outrage.

I will take you seriously if you have a genuine grievance. Otherwise I see
third party activism (moral outrage tourism?) today as largely a form of
entertainment. It's something people do to feel morally superior and self-
righteous or to be part of a "scene."

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biot
Even if all this is true, the fact that it contains no references to sections
of the TPP that one can independently verify makes the entire article useless.

------
pdkl95
At what point can we call these attempts to undermine government power an
_attack_? Modern war uses economic weapons, which can sometimes be more
effective (and less expensive) than the more traditional invasion or blockade.

Consider the "tea"/wingnut faction in the GOP (I think they're gone full
doublespeak and now call themselves the "freedom caucus"?) We have people
cheering over government shutdowns and explicit claims that dysfunction of
government _is the goal_ ("It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”[1], "I
don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where
I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."[2]). AT what
point does that become "making war"?

I'm totally fine with people that want to argue even absurd points _within the
system_. Attempting to replace that system with something else - such as the
ISDS - is another matter entirely. Consider any sizable power of your choice
(corporate, foreign government, or anything else). If they hired people to try
and subvert the legitimate functioning of our government, would you recognize
it? Or would you consider it the usual corruption we call "lobbying". No
empire lasts forever, and the American empire is is more precarious than we
like to admit.

[1] [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/on-cusp-of-
shutdown-...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/on-cusp-of-shutdown-
house-conservatives-excited-say-they-are-doing-the-right-
thing/2013/09/28/2a5ab618-285e-11e3-97e6-2e07cad1b77e_story.html)

[2]
[https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist)

~~~
jgome
Do these look like "economic weapons" to you?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_interventions_of_the_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_interventions_of_the_United_States)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_r...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations)

[http://qz.com/374138/these-are-all-the-countries-where-
the-u...](http://qz.com/374138/these-are-all-the-countries-where-the-us-has-a-
military-presence/)

------
kevin_nisbet
I share the sentiment of many of the responses, that this article doesn't
really say anything.

However, I've heard bits or pieces about this ISDS mechanism during previous
articles about the TPP. Does anyone have reference to a good (balanced)
analysis of the TPP in references to the international disputes, and what it
actually might imply?

Does it actually make it easier for corporations to challenge laws that might
be put in place by countries?

~~~
walterbell
Public Citizen has published a detailed history and analysis of investor-state
disputes. They are opposed to the TPP, but at least the issues are summarized
by trade lawyers and not only journalists. Their summary page includes
statements by members of the U.S. Congress.

[http://www.citizen.org/investorcases](http://www.citizen.org/investorcases)

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mlamat
It's the Trade federation all over again!

~~~
BerislavLopac
I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war!

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contingencies
I can't help but reflect that if democracy functioned properly, TPP would
never have got this far. When and _how_ do we bring out the pitchforks?

One means of resistance may be cryptographically secured supply chains,
wherein consumers may vote with their wallets to embargo bad actors either at
the corporate or national level. OK, so that's hard to achieve with physical
goods without a significant cost blowout (or even with one), but it could be a
strategy. Any others?

