
Just When I Was Ready to Give AirBnB a Try - callmeed
http://callmeed.posterous.com/just-when-i-was-ready-to-give-airbnb-a-try
======
robobenjie
That was a very unfortunate experience, but in some ways I'd count it as a win
for Airbnb. You were going to stay at this person's house, but because of
their messaging interface you were able to screen them and realize that they
were, in fact, a crazy person.

I think it is very important to look at the reviews of people you stay with.
If someone has more that 7-8 reviews, and everyone has positive things to say
then the risk is very low.

I have used Airbnb to stay in some incredibly romantic places (Paris with a
view of the Eiffel Tower, Boat in the SF Bay) and by picking people that have
20 or more reviews I have found a very high level of service and...
competence.

I feel like I have a lot less control as a host, because almost no-one has
reviews (it seems like there must be a lot more guests than hosts), but I
think there is a lot less variability with a guest because I am controlling
the situation. At worst I have a crazy and irritating person in my house for a
few days, where as when I'm staying with someone I am depending on them for
shelter.

That said I have hosted 34 people and had no crazys yet (knock on wood). In
general people are fun to host.

~~~
tptacek
Yeah, ok, so, help a newcomer to AirBnB out: how far in advance should I book
a room, and what string of slightly annoying nudges should I sent to my host
so that I can verify by their handling of my annoyances that they are not
going to pull the rug out from me the day I arrive in their city?

~~~
robobenjie
For us, book as soon as you know you want it. We've had people book several
months in advance and we make sure to honor them (the "worst" that happened is
that somebody got the whole house to themselves for the last few days of their
stay while we were in France).

I would just ask what the check in procedure is. If they are on top if it then
they will have one. Also, again, look at the reviews. If someone has had a
dozen guests who liked it enough to review then you know that they are serious
about it, and canceling on a guest would completely ruin the reputation of
someone like that.

We would only cancel on a guest if we physically could not host them (room was
on fire, etc).

------
clukezic
Hey Erik,

I'm very sorry that you had this experience on Airbnb. However, I'm very glad
that it has come to our attention.

Airbnb operates as a trusted community marketplace that thrives on community
engagement, not anonymity. Building trust is not an easy mission, but it is a
mission to which we very are committed. We have very stringent quality and
conduct control standards that we require both hosts and guests to abide by.
We rely heavily on direct feedback from our users through our community
support team and transaction based reviews in order to remain a trusted place
for people from around the world to book, list and discover unique spaces. We
find the behavior of this host to be unacceptable and have since followed up
with them directly. We invite anyone who has similar experiences to reach out
to us directly in these instances, which we take very seriously.

As mentioned by someone else, taking payments offline is not something we
allow our hosts to do. Hosts, if they so require it, have the ability to
charge cleaning fees and security deposits through our service, allowing the
guest a seamless, safe and secure booking experience. Our payment process was
designed to prevent fraud and scams which are rampant on other sites, where
payments are often sent through the mail between strangers, with no recourse.

Instances like this remind us that we have a long way to go to making Airbnb
the best place in the world for people to find the space they need. While we
are disappointed that you had a bad experience, we truly appreciate your
honest feedback, which challenges us to keep building to achieve our mission.

Christopher Lukezic, Airbnb employee

------
DevX101
Prediction: Someone will eventually get assaulted or worse at a host's place.
The media will then take that incident and run headlines like "The AirBNB
rapist", "AirBNB, Is it SAFE??". Local mayors urged by hotel campaign donors
will launch an aggressive campaign against the company based on this one
incident in tens of thousands.

~~~
netcan
_"However, it’s (the internet) very new to us. Newsreaders still feel it is
worth a special and rather worrying mention if, for instance, a crime was
planned by people ‘over the Internet.’ They don’t bother to mention when
criminals use the telephone or the M4, or discuss their dastardly plans ‘over
a cup of tea,’ though each of these was new and controversial in their day"_

Douglas Adams, 1999 <http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html>

~~~
nostrademons
Nowadays, people are plotting revolutions and toppling governments "over the
Internet". So if anything, it's just gotten worse.

~~~
netcan
Usually they are plotting revolutions "on social networks" and "using twitter"
to coordinate strikes.

------
tptacek
We were/are planning on using AirBnB to book a place for us and the kids in
NYC. This is _exactly_ the kind of thing that will keep us from doing it. Note
that you don't even have to be a psychopath to create a nuclear problem for
our trip; all you have to do is, at the last minute, decide "your profile is
too hidden!" and cancel our room, so that we show up and have no place to
stay.

I reallllly want this service to work. But the concept is already so
intrinsically out of my comfort zone that it doesn't take much of a nudge to
send me back to super-pricey VRBO.

~~~
ximeng
You might want to try on a trip where it's just you and in a place where you
know you can get a hotel if things don't work out. It becomes higher risk when
you're bring kids / partner too and have to keep everyone happy.

AirBnB / couch surfing style sites are likely to work better for people with
somewhat flexible schedules that can accommodate potentially being stranded
and having to find a hotel at the last minute. In exchange for a small risk
you meet local people in an informal way that you just can't get if you stay
in a hotel.

~~~
tptacek
AirBnB isn't a couch surfing site. It competes directly with sites like VRBO.

I'm not even remotely interested in meeting the typical person who wants to
let out a room, but I'm happy to pay a decent premium over a midrange hotel to
get an apartment instead of a hotel room, and have been happy every time I've
done that.

~~~
briandon
Why are you willing to pay more to stay in someone's apartment than to stay in
a hotel?

~~~
rdouble
For instance, to be in the neighborhood you are actually visiting. Midrange
hotels are often in lame neighborhoods.

------
rdouble
Sadly, AirBnB has failed for me more than 90% of the time. In NYC there were
overtly shady people, such as a dude who had at least 3 accounts, 2 of which
he would pose as women. However, the biggest problems are flakes and people
who list their apartment as being available when it really isn't. To AirBnB's
credit, housing in NYC is shady to begin with, and the one time it worked, it
was great.

~~~
jasonjei
It's sad to say this is true. In many cases, it's just as cheap, if not
cheaper, to use Starwood SPG.com or Priceline, plus you get free points or
have points to use from a credit card. You also know that while it won't be as
personalized an experience as AirBnB, you know that bedsheets will be clean,
there is maid service, decent amenities (like a pool or workout room), and
room service often at the same price for AirBnB. And you also earn points for
your stay.

~~~
rdouble
Traveling in Australia I found the prices for nicer AirBnB listings were the
same as many hotels or weekly apartments. It was easier to just check out
weekly rentals posted in the window of of a realty office. Plus, in Australia
the listed price is the price, whereas AirBnB drags in the obnoxious American
custom of tacking on extra fees right at the very end of the transaction.

However, I will say that the one time AirBnB worked for me, the person was
renting out their apartment like a hotel. She had a maid clean it up and even
left me mini soaps. It was way better than a hotel.

~~~
happyfeet
To me this message of yours is a learning to make note of: "Plus, in Australia
the listed price is the price, whereas AirBnB drags in the obnoxious American
custom of tacking on extra fees right at the very end of the transaction."

When we take any service to a different country / continent, we need to take
into account the local practices of the place (especially pricing) and build
it into the system, wherever possible.

~~~
vannevar
As an American, I can tell you that we find the practice of tacking on fees
just as obnoxious as everyone else does. If you're a business extending the
'courtesy' of posting actual prices to other countries, we'd appreciate it if
you'd also do it for us.

------
callmeed
UPDATE: Less than 2 hours after submitting a ticket to AirBnB, one of their
staff members called me on the phone. That alone is quite impressive and shows
that they care about these issues.

She gave me some good tips (which most of you have already mentioned): (1) use
people with good review, (2) use people with high response rates, etc.

~~~
mattmanser
As an update that gives me even less confidence in the system.

Imagine you started using paypal when it first came out, got ripped off and
then paypal messaged you saying 'hey, next time try using someone with a
higher rating'.

All it shows is that they've got no handle on vetting and by the sound of it
absolutely no clue how they're going to start dealing with it either.

The other messages here saying contact 5-10 people first to weed the wackos,
jeezus, AirBnB is actually starting to sound dangerous.

~~~
potatolicious
It's similar to eBay - they give you the necessary information to make an
informed decision... but don't tell novice users how to _use_ this
information.

For eBay, how important is a seller's rating? What should I weigh more
heavily, raw points or percentage? Does the Power Seller badge really mean
anything? What if the guy sells $5 trinkets normally but is trying to rip me
off with a $5000 item? The list goes on, there's no education, only trial by
fire.

It seems like AirBnb is falling into the same trap. AirBnb needs to come up
with its own measurement of reliability/sketchiness and show this to the user,
either explicitly or in search ordering. Users/postings that drop below a
certain bar (or just plain unproven users) need to be marked for novice users
so that they know to tread more carefully.

~~~
Jd
It's not a trap -- there is no way EBay can provide all of the necessary
information that would stop people from getting scammed since someone would
simply try a new trick that wasn't listed in the documentation. It isn't
simply "trial by fire," but suspicious until proven otherwise, a general tact
that works well on the internet and among strangers that want your money.

Anyways, most of this is common sense. Examine the number of positive reviews
in the past six months. Examine the ratio of positive to negative. Examine the
nature of negative reviews. If buying something expensive, verify some other
items sold were also expensive. Buy via paypal or something else that includes
buyer protection.

People will have to learn the same sort of way to navigate airbnb.

------
limedaring
Why is this Airbnb's fault? I just finished traveling Europe while using
Airbnb and never had a problem. Why? I message at least 5-10 people, and I
talked all first through the message function, making sure they're not insane
(the fact they're charging you extra was a good warning sign there). If the
person acted shady/mean/impatient/etc, I simply removed that place from my
choices.

The one time I had an issue (one cancelled on me less than a week before
arriving), Airbnb gave me a $50 certificate as apology and helped me rebook a
new place pronto.

Yeah, there are weird people on there, but it's easy to weed them out.

I would definitely report the person to Airbnb, since they're charging extra
(which is against the rules).

~~~
callmeed
I'm not saying it's AirBnB's _fault_ , but it's definitely an issue they'll
need to constantly address as they grow.

I did report them but the you bring up a good point about charging extra
deposit fees. As a new user, I have no idea that such practices are against
the rules ... so it didn't really raise a flag for me.

------
kchap
I am a 24 year old female and in the last three years I have couchsurfered in
Europe (alone, with another female, and with a male), found a ride on
craigslist from a male (in the US), hitchhiked across France (with a male),
and volunteered and lived on farms in Europe (alone and with a male). I had no
problems and loved the experiences I had with all of them. The only issue I
know of was someone who was a bit rude to one of her hosts because she was
prejudiced against staying with someone older than 20. I think that is
indicative of the inherent issues with AirBnB-you must have the right mindset
to welcome new experiences, be a bit flexible, and make good decisions when
choosing a place. It won't be for everyone, or at least the shared spaces may
not be for everyone. I have been a huge fan of AirBnB since I learned of them
because I think they provide a great (superior to couchsurfing) platform for
finding and evaluating hosts and they take away the many of the weird rules
that many couchsurfing hosts developed to allow someone to stay with them.
They made it financially beneficial to hosts who are providing a great service
and seem to have a great support system in place in addition to their
information on using the site successfully. I'm excited to try AirBnB in SF
when I visit in May, even if my friends stay separately in a hotel, and I hope
to hear back from my application to work with them.

------
kariatx
While this AirBnB exchange definitely wigs me out a little, I've had enough
friends in the corporate hotel business to know that there are weirdos and
creeps everywhere. That's not to say that hotels are as unsafe as AirBnB, but
I do think there is a false sense of security that comes with them. People are
people.

I have never used AirBnB, but my husband and I booked a place in San Francisco
for May. We were picky about who we selected, and the person renting the
guesthouse is a local restauranteur who seems like a real person on Google. I
am stoked about the neighborhood and price. For me, it's worth the risk. I
really don't like staying in hotels (noise, lack of cleanliness, annoying
patrons), and I'm willing to take a gamble on anything that could be a
sustainable alternative.

------
makmanalp
What is the real problem here? Am I missing something? It looks like the host
was rude. He said he'd report the author to the police, which seems pretty
dubious. Report him for what?

Annoying / rude / dumb / shady people exist all over the internet, but we
learn to notice and deal with them, and we don't let this ruin the internet
for us. So why not do the same on AirBNB? Common sense practices prevail here,
similar to ebay: Check other users' previous feedback on the host, tell
another person where you're going before you go there etc.

------
p09p09p09
The worst enemy an online community has are trolls. The worst enemy an online
community like AirBnB has are psychos and serial killers.

I really don't get this startup. Might as well post "I need somewhere to
crash" on Craigslist.

~~~
limedaring
You can see reviews of the hosts, pictures of the rooms, and compare with
other places. That certainly weeds out the psychos and serial killers way more
than a random posting Craigslist.

~~~
tptacek
How well have pictures and reviews worked for eBay? And how do the standards
for eBay compare to those for AirBnB?

~~~
makmanalp
I don't know about the pictures thing, but the reputation system works pretty
damn well. I buy stuff off of ebay regularly and find that especially high
profile sellers do everything they can to keep their reputation up, because
otherwise they lose potential clients.

You just really do need to ingrain into the community that a good reputation
is essential, damnit, and don't buy from someone that doesn't have one. Then
the sellers conform to that.

~~~
tptacek
I was under the impression that reputation on eBay was gameable, so much so
that I actively avoid eBay.

~~~
Duff
EBay's reputation system is a joke People routinely create fake accounts, farm
for reputation by making lots of low-value purchases, then wait a few weeks
until you cannot browse the details of their purchase history.

Once that happens, they move from buying or selling recipes for $0.99 to
trading laptops, scam a few people, then vanish.

------
Lucadg
Something similar happened to chouchsurfing. At the beginning it was a small
community with a high level of trust and people knew what it was about, and
behaved accordingly. Then it grew too much and you find all kind of users,
many who just think that's a way to sleep for free and who avoid interaction
with their hosts. I guess airbnb will have to adapt (I'm pretty sure they are
aware of the problem) and find ways to filter out the bad guys. There's gonna
be many more of them as soon as they find out the opportunity.

------
yankeeracer73
I've used AirBnB a couple times in DC and it worked out really well. Go with
the people who have been heavily reviewed/starred the first time you use the
service and you shouldn't go wrong. Also maybe try going with places where
you're getting the entire apartment and not just a room or couch. A bit more
expensive, but again for your first time it may give you a little more peace
of mind.

------
chrstphrwrght
It seems like the host thought you were stringing them along and has
overreacted. I'd try to imagine how they were feeling before we call them
crazy though, whether you book or not might affect them in all sorts of ways.
Do they need to change their plans for the weekend to accommodate you being
there? Did they decline a booking from someone else while waiting for you to
commit? Are they hard up for cash and really need the extra dollars your
booking could bring? They might be pressured by all sorts of things and just
waiting for that confirmation email. For a weekend booking, still no
commitment by Thursday would have made me a bit nervous as a host too.

Of course they could just be imbalanced, and that's a risk you take. Part of
Airbnb's appeal is that it creates experiences for you that you wouldn't get
staying at a hotel. If you are travelling with children, this might be less of
a draw for you as safety becomes a bigger concern; you can minimise the risk
by only booking somewhere that has a lot of positive reviews and a good feel
to it.

------
nhangen
Problem is you can't rate a host unless you've stayed there, so in this case,
the OP couldn't rate the host as bad because he didn't end up staying there.

This is an issue that needs to be addressed, but overall, I love Air BnB.

------
stanmancan
I've never used AirBnB myself but I've always thought about this as well.
Clearly both parties should be aware they're taking a risk staying at a
strangers place, and while it'd be great to be able to trust everybody in this
world, sadly we can't.

------
dotBen
I've no idea why but the AirBnB model really doesn't appeal to me, for
concerns that follow this issue. I fear ending up at some crazy person's home
who will treat me like this home owner did - but in person when I'm kind of
trapped at their house.

Having grown up in an expensive city to visit (London) I can see the
attraction for AirBnB in cities like London, NYC and SF but I would still take
a carefully researched price negotiated/discounted hotel room over staying on
someone's couch who I didn't know.

------
rdl
Ugh, cut and paste error on this (the stupid story about google from
techcrunch). I hate it when Hacker News server restarts and thus I can't
submit a comment on a window/tab I've had open for a while, sigh.

I intended to post:

I've had great luck with AirBnB in some markets (Japan, USA) and bad luck in
others (Thailand). It's great if you're flexible, but for business travel, or
if you're arriving late at night after a flight is delayed, it's really
convenient having a 24h hotel desk and simple checkin.

The biggest friction with AirBnB for me is the key exchange and "onboarding"
process at a new property. I hope there is a technological solution to this.

------
nickpinkston
I use AirBnB for tons of cheap startup travel - AmA ;-)

Great: an AirBnB host got me a slot to speak at Ignite SXSW Good: $30 a night
in a private room in Boston in a great building near MIT - always go there
Still Good: I've booked the night before and never had people flake.

Bad: I once had to stay in a disgusting house the smell like rodents - my
honest review prompted mega-psycho bitch response - I had to edit my previous
post to warn people that she did that too - which sort of means the system
works I guess...

------
nedwin
I think peoples use of AirBNB is all about their capacity for risk/adventure.

A good friend has had hookers and druggies stay at his place through AirBNB,
but people who were otherwise quite nice people. Just because they had a
different life style didn't make them dangerous and he's still renting his
room out.

We've had three people stay at our place so far and they've all been awesome.
Next month half our rent for our three bedroom house will be covered by one
AirBNB tenant and we'll make a new friend.

------
kin
I've attempted to stay at an AirBnB several times. It definitely feels like a
niche market. I use it because I think it's cheaper. But, people on AirBnB(the
ones that seem safe) seem to charge regular hotel rates that I end up choosing
a hostel instead.

Occasionally you find some hidden treasures and friends of mine have reported
having an entire apartment to themselves in NYC for a fraction of the cost of
a hotel.

------
wildmXranat
Whoa, with no ill thought towards the AirBnB guys, I need to say that their
service must not be very popular with women. While backpacking with a small
group in Europe, the biggest obstacle to staying in some hostels was the
discomfort amongst the women. First and foremost thing on their mind, was
security and safety. How does a service like AirBnB attempt, if at all try, to
fix this issue ?

~~~
Duff
I agree. I'd be very nervous if my wife were a regular user of AirBNB.

IMO, this service will slowly transform into a platform for independent hotels
and real BNB's. Especially since the prices are so high -- why would I want to
deal with people when I can stay in a nice hotel in a central business
district for approximately the same price?

------
kmfrk
As someone who hasn't used it before, does Airbnb have a "seller rating" of
sorts?

Seems necessary.

~~~
Estragon
Yes, he probably could have avoided this by checking the reviews of his
prospective host.

------
neworbit
Yeah - this has convinced me to not use AirBNB until/unless this sort of thing
gets straightened out

------
ancornwell
AirBnB is for hippies - a shrinking demographic.

