
German parliament passes bill allowing banks to sell and store cryptocurrencies - HipGeeks
https://decrypt.co/12603/new-law-makes-germany-crypto-heaven
======
m-i-l
This article is attempting to put an extremely positive spin ("new law makes
Germany 'crypto[currency] heaven'", "leads to institutional investors", "major
breakthrough", "massive for adoption") on a government crackdown. To be
expected given that decrypt.co is funded by ConsenSys, which was in turn
founded by someone who had (in Feb 2018) an estimated "net worth in
cryptocurrency to be between one and five billion [US] dollars"[0], so they
have a vested interest in promoting cryptocurrencies. But why does this sort
of advertising keep on cropping up on HN?

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lubin_(entrepreneur)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lubin_\(entrepreneur\))

~~~
seibelj
Bloomberg is founded by a billionaire with a vested interest in... whatever he
has an interest in? Washington Post by Bezos as well. Should we ban all of
this so-called “independent” media from HN?

~~~
johnpowell
Well, Bloomberg probably has some actual cash. The crypto guy has a bunch of
tokens he needs to turn into usable money. So he has a interest in keeping the
price up while he slowly exits without crashing the price.

~~~
seibelj
Honest question - does it bother you every day that any cryptocurrency is
valued above $0? Does this violate you intellectually?

~~~
boznz
This doesnt sound like a "honest question" to me.

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lucideer
I read this and assumed crypto meant cryptography. I guess at this stage we
should come up with a new short term for cryptography, since crypto has been
subsumed.

Could this maybe be editorialised to cryptocurrency for clarity?

~~~
DyslexicAtheist
_> we should come up with a new short term for cryptography_

 _" they"_ should come up with a new short term for cryptocurrency

~~~
q3k
Unfortunately the free market cares about crypto->cryptocurrency more than
about crypto->cryptography.

We are all, unfortunately, under control of an entity that values financial
growth at all costs over any sort of scientific merit.

~~~
BLKNSLVR
Can we use that to garner public support for cryptography under the banner of
digital currency / cryptocoins?

Something like this:

The five eyes are trying to ban crypto! The government wants to be able to
access your life savings when it inevitably all goes digital!

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logicchains
Seems they're making all crypto exchanges not registered in Germany illegal
for their citizens. I wonder what the punishment will be for a German who buys
crypto from an unregistered exchange?

~~~
wongarsu
I'm not so sure about that. I haven't looked up the legal text, but to me it
only sounds like operating some services like crypto exchanges requires a
licence.

As a citizen I can interact with a Canadian bank that has no German licence,
as long as I don't launder money. The Canadian bank just can't do business
activities in Germany (advertisement, opening an office, etc).

Overall this seems like a bigpositive since it gives crypto currencies a more
solid place in the German legal framework, taking it out of the niche

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xenonite
I wonder what this means regarding the transparency of transactions and the
anonymity of user ids. Is anyone aware of the new law's implications?

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aazaa
It appears to be a two-pronged law that permits banks to act as custodians,
while at the same time requiring other custodians currently operating in
Germany to obtain a special license and comply with other regulations.

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sprash
The initial purpose of Bitcoin according to its creator was to abolish central
banks. The fact that the state uses force to collect taxes in fiat currency
means that you have no chance to escape fiat, this new regulation makes sure
of that. It means nothing more than Bitcoin has utterly failed in its mission.

~~~
green1
Did the creator himself seriously think Bitcoin would be the end of banks?

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yohannparis
Be careful, because banks and central banks are not the same things.

~~~
green1
I'm just wondering if people who claimed to believe Bitcoin would end the
banking system came up with that amongst themselves or were basing it on
something "Satoshi" had said.

I had the impression Satoshi was relatively matter of fact about Bitcoin, but
I haven't read much of his/her/their own words.

~~~
tekproxy
Read the white paper.

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upstandingdude
I don't know, smells fishy

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pizzaparty2
If they build up the infrastructure with that famous German engineering I'd
just as soon stay away.

~~~
hef19898
Ah, come on. By 2022 all state administrative tasks will be 100% digital for
German residents. That will be defined by law. There is nothing to worry!

~~~
TomMarius
What I don't understand is your banking. As a Czech person, I strongly felt
like German banking is 20 years in the past. Why the heck would you have ATMs
with opening hours, and not accepting all cards? Why does it cost so much (or
anything?) to withdraw? Why are your businesses not accepting cards, or only
accepting some cards with weird details like "CCs only German, other cards
only EU"?

~~~
rndgermandude
>As a Czech person, I strongly felt like German banking is 20 years in the
past. Why the heck would you have ATMs with opening hours, and not accepting
all cards?

Never seen an ATM with opening hours, other than ones located inside shopping
malls where the entire mall completely closes during the nights.

I never had an ATM refuse my card, tho. The worst was some steep fees (see
below).

>Why does it cost so much (or anything?) to withdraw?

Because banks are in the business of making money ;) Seriously tho, most
Germans do not pay for withdrawals, you "just" have to remember to go to an
ATM of your bank or one of their partners, which admittedly you have to know
about and then it's a bit of a hassle.

>Why are your businesses not accepting cards, or only accepting some cards
with weird details like "CCs only German, other cards only EU"?

Now that's actually more of an issue, indeed. I think it's a combination of

\- Germans still really loving their cash, so everybody usually has at least a
few bucks in cash with them,

\- Germans always being a bit conservative about new tech (that can lose them
money or get their persoanl and/or banking data into the wrong hands),

\- Germans really despising when somebody in front of them wants to pay for
small purchases slowly with a card (insert into reader, type PIN and/or sign)
instead of quickly with some cash

\- and small shops not wanting to go through the hassle of setting up this
stuff. Both legal and also the tech aspects are a burden; there is a lot of
red tape to get accepted by upstream processors and CC companies; and the
system isn't exactly unified either. Especially small independent shops that
usually sell stuff at a few bucks per customer do not really seem to see the
point in offering card payments. And from what I heard, purely anecdotal and
second hand, it's far more of a hassle to get set up to accept credit cards,
especially issued by foreign banks, than German bank cards, so that may
explain why some shops will accept some card but not others.

Then again, everything that's part of a chain or franchise usually accepts
cards, and most actual restaurants do too (but some still don't, which can
lead to a lot of awkwardness once you try to pay), as do virtually all gas
stations, and so on.

As a German, that's just something you're used to and expect: The people in
the doner shop or asian food truck or Kiosk (newsagent/corner shop) will stare
blankly at you if you want to pay your less than 10 bucks with a card, even
when they accept cards.

Anyway, banks been rolling out contactless payment systems recently, which
might change things for small item purchases finally (or rather eventually).
Which, of course, is an area where Germany lacked behind.

~~~
TomMarius
> Never seen an ATM with opening hours, other than ones located inside
> shopping malls where the entire mall completely closes during the nights.

Yeah. In Czechia we can use the card to open the enclosed area and use the
ATM.

> I never had an ATM refuse my card, tho. The worst was some steep fees (see
> below).

I have never seen a Czech ATM that can't handle literally any card from planet
Earth, meanwhile the first German ATM I saw has been MasterCard only. And then
the second and the third one as well, I was not amused.

~~~
rndgermandude
I have never seen an ATM in Germany that couldn't handle at least Visa and
Mastercard, on top of Maestro and normal giro withdrawals.

