
Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932) - kamaal
http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html
======
enduser
There are a number of beautiful places in the United States where it is
possible for a person to subsist quite luxuriously on $1200/mo and preserve
the ability to throw parties for friends, buy books and tools, etc. As of
January a person with such income will have free Medicare in Oregon.

"Fuck You" money is an illusion that keeps you working. The mind loves to
believe that having enough of some external thing will give us control,
safety, or whatever we most fear the lack of. It isn't true. A man with with
excess money is absorbed in concerns of what to do with it and is hardly free.
He might be able to say "fuck you" to people, but he can't say "fuck you" to
money.

Freedom is measured by the scarcity of our concerns. And happiness, perhaps,
by closeness with people to whom we need never say "fuck you" because we love
them and accept them fully.

~~~
pyrrhotech
yea, but you still need $360k or so to be able to withdraw $1200/month forever
without worry. That's still a decent chunk of change. I guess you can save it
in 5 years, but if you don't like working those 5 years will be hellaciously
long

~~~
eli_gottlieb
How are you investing $360k to make $1200/month forever without worry?

~~~
christiangenco
[http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-
need...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need-for-
retirement/)

See also:

* [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/18/how-to-make-money-...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/18/how-to-make-money-in-the-stock-market/)

* [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/26/why-hardcore-savin...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/26/why-hardcore-saving-is-much-more-powerful-than-masterful-investing/)

* [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/06/dude-wheres-my-7-i...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/06/dude-wheres-my-7-investment-return/)

------
padobson
_The method of a leisure class without duties was, however, extraordinarily
wasteful. None of the members of the class had to be taught to be industrious,
and the class as a whole was not exceptionally intelligent. The class might
produce one Darwin, but against him had to be set tens of thousands of country
gentlemen who never thought of anything more intelligent than fox-hunting and
punishing poachers._

I'm down. We should be massively ramping up the amount of leisure time in our
society so that we, as a society, never miss out on a potential Darwin or
Lincoln or Jesus or whomever. How many world-changing, mental giants have we
missed out on because they couldn't free their minds from working 40+ hours a
week?

~~~
Draiken
The problem is the decision to do this is never in the hands of the wage-
earners...

Only the powerful and rich can really change this reality, and it's clearly
not aligned with their interests.

~~~
padobson
I don't know. If the venture finance industry has taught us anything, it's
that one big win can pay for a whole mess of failures, and then some.

If you tell a bunch of rich people they've got a good chance of financing the
next Leonardo DaVinci or Thomas Edison by providing the living essentials to
5,000 people, you could probably get a few to take you up on it. Just make
sure you're cutting them in on the profits.

~~~
Draiken
Unfortunately from someone looking from the outside, it looks like the venture
industry you talk about is very small and restricted to a few areas.

Maybe one day... but even with companies that come from that culture, normally
after reaching a certain point of greatness, many stop helping the solution
and give in to the system in pursuit of more and more profits.

I'm very skeptical when it comes to changes in society. I really don't think
it'll change anytime soon. At least not for better.

------
leejoramo
As wikipedia notes on Bertrand Russell:

> His work has had a considerable influence on logic, mathematics, set theory,
> linguistics, artificial intelligence, computer science (see type theory and
> type system), and philosophy, especially philosophy of language,
> epistemology, and metaphysics.

Plus he won the Nobel Prize in _Literature_!

For a very approachable overview of Russell's complex life, I highly recommend
the graphic novel "Logicomix"

[http://www.logicomix.com/](http://www.logicomix.com/)

Then you will certainly find yourself wanting to learn more about this amazing
person.

~~~
samograd
For a very approachable view of Russel's thoughts and work, you can try
reading his own writing:

[http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/355](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/355)

My personal favourite so far has been 'Mysticism and Logic and Other Essays'
with 'Analysis of Mind' currently at the top of my reading queue. Not
everything he did was like reading 'Principia Mathematica' and his writing is
very open, readable and eloquent.

~~~
mercer
I liked a bunch of the essays I read by him, and loved "A History of Western
Philosophy". I'm well aware (and felt his writing made it obvious enough) that
it is not necessarily a 'accurate' history of philosophy, but it was a great
book with a great approach.

~~~
tommorris
What it lacks in accuracy it makes up for in entertainment.

------
parasight
It is rather strange. More and more things of everyday life are automated and
computerized. Nevertheless, I have the impression to have less and less time
to do all the things I want/need to do.

~~~
d23
Something happened to me yesterday that I haven't quite had the time to figure
out.

I'm normally the introverted "stay at home and relax" type, at least during
the week. I frequently want to get home from work as early as possible to play
video games, play music, or read. The only problem I've had lately is I've had
little motivation to do the creative parts (e.g. creating music or programming
something).

But last night I went to the gym after work, making me get home an hour later
than usual. Then I went out to an open mic with some music friends and had
food and beers. Then I came back home and played video games for an hour or
so. Then I managed to actually write music for another hour and a half.

It was weird, because normally I'd feel like I had a huge block of time in
front of me (in theory, "relaxing"), so I could do whatever I wanted. But the
catch was that I actually _wouldn 't_ do them! I'd procrastinate, and feel
like I wasn't using the time "best" way. Last night was so different, and I
felt really energized this morning.

What's the takeaway? I don't know yet. Maybe I'll try to _do_ more. It was
fun.

~~~
salemh
I think momentum plays a big part. That goes both ways in creative pursuits of
getting things "done" or at least moving forward on projects, as well as
stagnating.

The more time you "I'll do it later" on something, the easier it becomes, etc.

The book "Art of War" while some "hippie'esque"'ness breaks down "resistance"
to getting to creative pursuits.

~~~
mercer
I think it is especially this. There's a reason for the thought that the best
person to ask for help or a favor is a busy person, as they are more likely to
reliably do it if they say yes (and often they do, just as much as less busy
people).

I've experienced this quite often myself. I remember a period when I was
particularly productive and creative, but also very busy two bachelors and
three side-jobs.

------
pjdorrell
"If he merely puts his savings in a stocking, like the proverbial French
peasant, it is obvious that they do not give employment."

What is "obvious" to Bertrand Russell is bad economics.

When the peasant puts his money in a stocking, he causes a slight deflation,
so prices decrease, which increases the value of everyone else's money. So
everyone else effectively has more to spend, if they want to.

However, everyone else would be prudent to assume that the peasant will
eventually spend his money, which will correspondingly cause prices to rise
again.

It might seem that an earlier gain is offset by a later loss.

But, those who benefit from the slight deflation can choose to invest the
increased value of their monetary holdings into industry. At a later time,
when the peasant decides to spend his money, the products of that industry
will be ready for purchase.

Thus, with nothing more than surplus cash and a stocking, the peasant has
driven investment in industry, productive employment, and long-term growth in
the wealth of society, the benefits of which he has foregone since he chose
not to seek a return of interest on his savings.

~~~
wintersFright
Keep in mind this was 1932 when there was the gold standard. Inflation was
more volatile then and was -10% (minus!) according to
[http://www.rateinflation.com/inflation-rate/usa-
historical-i...](http://www.rateinflation.com/inflation-rate/usa-historical-
inflation-rate?start-year=1915&end-year=1932)

------
padobson
I have to say there's a good chance that society is already moving toward
Russell's ideal.

If you just look at accelerators like YCombinator, you'll see that two
successful startups (Dropbox and AirBnb) are by-and-large paying for the
investment of the other several hundred startups several times over.

So when will we see it going to the next level? Gather a bunch of people
together, using whatever criteria you see fit, and tell them to do whatever
they want. Pay for their room and board, and see what is produced from their
complete leisure time. If the produce of that investment was one of the
individuals simply having an idea on the scale of something like "Democracy"
or "Altruism", wouldn't it be completely worth it if the other individuals
never did anything more than eat, sleep, and play video games?

~~~
VLM
We called those "housing projects" and they were not exactly a paradise to
live in. Superficially need some minimal level of education/civilization.
Which merely excludes those bored by formal education, most of whom are idiots
and a small fraction of them are geniuses. For lack of a better idea you could
use some weighted GPA/IQ/GRE/SAT/ACT score system. Assuming the smartest
people are those who come up with the best ideas. It does seem that to spread
an idea you need a smart dude but a think tank should hire marketing people
for that? Perhaps a lotto would work just as well for selection. A lotto
instead of elections would likely give us a superior government, perhaps it
would give us superior ideas on average.

Another interesting example is the Institute for Advanced Studies nearby
Princeton, I think. You might want to examine whats been produced there.

------
imarg
Of a similar thinking is, I suppose, "The Right to Be Lazy" by Paul Lafargue.

I read it some time ago and if I remember correctly he believed that there
isn't/wasn't any need to work more than 3 hours a day because of the
technological advances of the time (and to think this was in 1883!)

After a quick search I found it is available online at:
[http://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/](http://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/)

~~~
ludwigvan
Trivia: Lafargue was Marx's daughter's husband.

~~~
kungfooguru
Trivia: And one of the people Marx was referring to when he said that if they
are Marxists then "what is certain is that I myself am not a Marxist."

------
gbog
There is this thing about ancient China: each son, when his father died, had
to mourn for three years. Yes, three years. And it meant stopping your
official occupation, e.g. official employment. (This didn't apply to the
peasant).

Result: most of the great products of Chinese culture are a direct consequence
of this forced idleness.

~~~
jonahss
Could you provide a source for this conclusion? I'm interested in the idea,
but can't find anything on it.

~~~
gbog
It has been mentioned in Essays on China by Simon Leys (I read it in French).

------
RyanMcGreal
> If so, I shall not have lived in vain.

Notwithstanding that small matter of formally defining the logical foundations
of all mathematics.

~~~
keithpeter
Well, having a good bash at that particular problem. Not sure if Russell and
Whitehead actually _succeeded_.

" _Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the
earth 's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people
to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant
and highly paid._"

I've always liked that quote.

~~~
TeMPOraL
How does programming fit into this? It feels a bit in-between. On the one
hand, you tell the computer what to do, in a way that feels similar to Type 2;
on the other hand, you actually _have_ to do the work of programming, which
feels much like Type 1, except you're not moving physical matter around, but
stuff in 'concept space'.

~~~
benched
In all seriousness, I've long thought of what I do as moving electrons around,
getting pits onto CDs in the right place, things like that. Whatever I do in,
say, C++-land, is a means to those ends. An intermediate step. I arrived at
that way of thinking after trying to define 'work', and deciding that it
always consists of moving matter around (transporting it, putting it into a
desired configuration).

~~~
TeMPOraL
Interesting conclusion. However, notice that most of the energy (in
thermodynamical sense) in this "work" is not spent on moving electrons in the
computer around, nor even in the C++-land, but in concept-space. We do our
work by building castles in the air out of abstract mental structures, and
only then we formalize it in code that moves electrons around.

When I look at the end results of work, I come to the same conclusion that
indeed it ultimately consists of reconfiguring matter. That's what we need to
do to reach whatever goals we have. Maybe the conceptspace work maps to the
levels of intricacy of the end-result matter configuration, i.e. the more
complex, precise thing you want to get, the more energy you need to expend on
thinking rather than arranging atoms. It's easier to move a ton of bricks from
one place to another than to design a microprocessor.

So I guess that ultimately I agree with your comment.

(disclaimer: writing this after two beers)

------
CaptainSwing
There is a great deal of anarchist and libertarian communist literature
critiquing the modern concept of work, notably Russian anarchist Kropotkin's
book 'the conquest of bread' originally written in around 1906.
[http://libcom.org/library/the-conquest-of-bread-peter-
kropot...](http://libcom.org/library/the-conquest-of-bread-peter-kropotkin)

------
hownottowrite
Anyone looking for more praise of idleness should look into the works of Tom
Hodgkinson. How to Be Idle is particularly brilliant.

~~~
richtr
Here's the 5 minute summary:
[http://www.wikisummaries.org/How_To_Be_Idle](http://www.wikisummaries.org/How_To_Be_Idle)

~~~
smacktoward
The irony of only having time to read a Cliff's Notes version of a book called
"How To Be Idle" is truly sublime.

------
gbog
I was half through and I suddenly had a click in my head, thought this was
written by pg.

Same clean and efficient style, same nakedness without any philosophical
scaffolding, while being bullet tracing a straight line through many
philosophical stand points.

Two very clairvoyant minds. Let's go back reading.

------
yankoff
I wonder how much Mr. Russel was idle himself having written on average 2
books per year throughout his life and significantly contributing on so many
levels.

------
myth_drannon
On the same note I would like to add another related and a great article: The
Quality of life [http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/07/31/the-quality-of-
life/](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/07/31/the-quality-of-life/)

------
_nullandnull_
I recently stumbled upon a great graphic comic (mostly factual) about Betrand
Russell and his life. I'd highly recommend it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logicomix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logicomix)

------
volume
I wonder what Bertrand Russell would say about Undercover Cop. If only he were
alive today and given the chance to produce his on reality tv show. I wonder
what that would be like?

------
00rion
I notice that nobody has related this to the Swiss proposal to provide a basic
income for all adults. If it works there, I wonder if other countries will
move in that direction.

------
computerJanitor
"...there is no reason to go on being foolish forever."

~~~
Draiken
Except there are...

Reasons that are not ours, but for those who control us.

------
kyberias
I'm way too lazy while idling to read this. tl;dr?

~~~
kamaal
As automation increases and we have machines do most of our work. We don't
seem to put that saved time into leisure. We rather seem to use that saved
time to do more work.

Humans aren't too happy with every one getting the same, even if that is
sufficient for every one's sustenance. We inevitable use our time to buy
things that distinguish us from other fellow humans.

The theme was also propagated in the novel 1984,concept of equality among
humans was/is going to be a big disaster.

~~~
arethuza
From what I recall of the Party in 1984 (at least the Inner Party) they had no
illusions about them holding power to benefit anyone else:

 _" The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in
the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure
power means you will understand presently. We are different from the
oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others,
even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German
Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but
they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended,
perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a
limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human
beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know what no one ever
seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it
is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a
revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.
The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture.
The object of power is power."_

[NB I find the natural antidote to this to be the speech from the end of The
Great Dictator
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IvPIWzQcUY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IvPIWzQcUY)]

~~~
kamaal
The problem with 'holding power' is you also need submission from the masses
or at least need to keep them in order.

There is never ever going to be a period of time in the human history, there
was none in the past, nor will there be in the future where we shall attain
peaceful uniform equality among humans. The very concept is against our very
internal wiring. Equality means, every one gets the same _regardless_ of their
efforts in getting it. This is a very strange concept, and the human
understanding of motivation rejects it. Those who contribute more, always
assume they need to get proportional to their effort(which is justice), those
who contribute less or nothing at all feel they are entitled to get the same
as everyone because they think equality is justice.

Net result? The hard working no longer feel motivated to contribute, or worse
move else where where they feel they will better rewarded. The situation in
the system worsens with no one building anything of real value, while
expecting to get the same. That's how socialists and communists systems across
the world have collapsed over time.

Secondly, war will be perpetual state in which humans will live for many ages
to come. In fact this too was discussed in pretty detail in 1984. War is
basically an activity that destroys human effort, so that there is room to
create more and more of it. That will ultimately be the only way in which more
goods can be created and consumed.

Unless of course in the far future we colonize universe to an extent there is
far too much space for us to interfere. Just like the very very early humans
on earth.

~~~
circlefavshape
"There is never ever going to be a period of time in the human history, there
was none in the past, nor will there be in the future where we shall attain
peaceful uniform equality among humans"

This is simply not true. Hunter-gatherer societies are typically egalitarian,
and our species has subsisted by hunting and gathering for the vast majority
of its existence.

~~~
haihaibye
In the tribe there was inequality of status (eg best hunters) and mate choice.

Between tribes there was inequality of where to live, or living at all due to
border clashes, raids etc

~~~
aestra
This really isn't true on a wide scale. There are exceptions but most hunter-
gathers tend to be very egalitarian. There were no permanent leaders, and
everyone worked together as a team.

The best part about hunter-gather lifestyle was there was tons of free time.

------
benhirashima
there's a great book in the same vein, How to be Idle.
[http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Idle-Manifesto-
ebook/dp/B00DB3F...](http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Idle-Manifesto-
ebook/dp/B00DB3FUS0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381245066&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+be+idle)

------
sandeepspatil
"borrowing made it appear as if the future was nourishing the present"

------
ashutoshm
and now for something completely different
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k799LiPqu2g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k799LiPqu2g)
[Bertie in Bollywood]

------
pvdm
He also wrote "Conquest of Happiness".

------
kevgnulldev
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent
are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell

