
Who Deserves This? (2018) - adgasf
https://freeross.org/who-deserves-this/
======
jawns
Just in case any of you are wondering who Ross is ...

He created the Silk Road, a popular online exchange for illegal drugs, and
prosecutors alleged that he paid $730K to try to kill six people. (He was not,
however, charged with attempted murder. Instead, he was charged and convicted
of money laundering and drug offenses.)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht)

EDIT: I just want to make completely clear that I didn't post this info in an
effort to discredit his essay's argument, which is that the U.S. prison system
is in need of drastic reform. I agree wholeheartedly with that. I just wanted
to give some context, because I didn't know who he was, and the "Who is Ross?"
section of the freeross.org site makes it seem like he's an angelic Boy Scout
philanthropist sweetheart.

~~~
cicada-3301
These 7-year-old allegations relied solely on anonymous chats NEVER proven to
have been authored by Ulbricht.

It's well known now there were multiple people behind the DPR accounts AND 2
corrupt agents (now in prison) had admin access too.

Never proven, never prosecuted and dismissed "with prejudice" by the govt,
meaning they can never be used against him again.

Ross was NOT accused of selling drugs or laundering money, or hacking
computers. Charges based on what others listed on SR (i.e, laundering money
conspiracy charge = because some users were cashing out their btc for other
currencies. Hacking conspiracy = because some users listed hacking tutorials
or software.)

Wikiepedia shouldn't be used as a reliable source when it comes to legal
cases.

~~~
wmf
Nick Bilton did extensive research for his book American Kingpin and it all
supports the theory that Ulbricht was the only DPR.

~~~
jason_slack
And it’s a good read if anyone hasn’t read it.

------
bluedevil2k
I’ve thought the punishment of Ross was extremely too harsh: life in prison
without the possibility of parole. I know the government paints this picture
of him as a major drug smuggler, but I think we in the tech world are smarter
than that and realize creating a platform is different than selling. After
all, are EBay and Amazon liable for all the counterfeit things on their page?
Should Bezos go to jail?

I also think the Silk Road story would be a fascinating 2-season, 20 episode
series on Netflix. Read the story linked below for a great 2 hour read.

\- [https://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-
road-1/](https://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-1/)

~~~
WAHa_06x36
If Bezos tried to have six people killed, then yeah, he should be in jail.

~~~
cicada-3301
Except Ross never did. False allegations used to smear him.

~~~
Edman274
A document on his computer saying that he paid a supposed hitman and they ran
with the cash, and chatlogs of him talking to the hitman, and an "immutable
public ledger" with a record of the payment whose time and amount matches up
with the note on the laptop are all ridiculous government smears. And there's
nothing at all sociopathic about lying to your parents all the way until their
bankruptcy in asserting your innocence.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
> Imagine the worst torture you can think of that doesn’t leave the victim
> disabled, something you can’t deny is cruel: burning, flogging — take your
> pick. If the victims themselves would prefer this torture to imprisonment,
> the inescapable conclusion is that prison is worse, even more cruel. I, and
> every prisoner I have asked, would prefer any amount of pain and cruelty,
> for a limited duration, to the years and decades we’re forced to spend
> here—spirits crushed, hope abandoned, relegated to irrelevance.

People will say they choose all sorts of theoretical punishments that have no
chance of happening. In reality, I doubt very many people would actually go
through with it if actually given the chance.

~~~
knodi123
Philosophically, it's an interesting idea for discussion.

Sentence criminals to a certain amount of pain, and let them choose whether to
experience it via decades of low-grade boredom, or hours/minutes/seconds of
intense agony.

Personally, in an ideal world that is not this one, I think that prison serves
the dual purpose of rehabilitation and removal-from-society, and that the
"voluntary torture" approach serves neither end. But in our actual world,
prison is only sometimes barely-rehabilitative, and I'm not sure how valuable
removal from society is on its own. So... interesting discussion, at least.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
Philosophically interesting, but I'm not sure it really serves all the
purposes prison has. There are four widely recognized ones: retribution,
discouragement of crime, protection of society (via isolation of harmful
members), and rehabilitation. A short period of intense suffering, even
supposing you could inflict an equivalent amount of "pain units", only
addresses retribution and discouragement of crime.

~~~
RcouF1uZ4gsC
As for protection of society, I don't think Ross Ulbricht would be a threat to
society if he were released now. He is in prison mainly to serve as an example
to others. There are probably a lot of other people like him in prison.

As for rehabilitation, I would think that in most cases it could be better
accomplished via a community based program. For example, drug rehab works
better in drug treatment facilities than in prison.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
Sure, I'm not speaking specifically of Ross' case, but the general case of
prisoners preferring a quick, extreme punishment to a drawn out, mild
punishment.

I agree that Ross is not someone who is a serious reoffender risk. OTOH,
justice professionals might feel differently based on his lack of contrition
(this typically counts against convicts at sentencing, partly because there's
a view that it says something about recidivism risk).
[https://fortune.com/2015/06/01/why-a-judge-threw-the-book-
at...](https://fortune.com/2015/06/01/why-a-judge-threw-the-book-at-silk-
roads-founder/)

------
etchalon
The ever-interesting thing about Ulbricht – every thread devolves into a
discussion on whether he "paid someone to murder someone else".

Every stitch of evidence says he did. Defenders will make two claims: 1. he
was never charged – despite the fact the schemes were absolutely a part of the
conspiracy charges he was convicted of or 2. the evidence was planted!

The first fact being provably untrue and the second being impossible to
disprove.

Prison is a dark, and horrendous existence. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I
would spend a lifetime avoiding it. I believe in rehabilitation and remorse. I
don't believe in "throwing away" people who make mistakes.

But once you've decided that the death of one person is worth less than the
"value" of your business, a business specifically designed to thwart obvious
laws for your own profit, I have a hard time finding sympathy for you, beyond
the basic sympathy I'd extend anyone who is being forced to live with the
consequences of their actions.

------
Razele
I agree the punishment is to harsh for drug smuggling, but if he did attempt
to murder six people, then it's not. He should have his day in court for
attempted murder.

~~~
irscott
He had his day and the charge was dismissed and can never be brought back. In
the US at least this is a done deal as far as the justice system is concerned.

------
SamReidHughes
My "favorite" thing about the case was how the feds found him buying a fake id
in a "random" customs check. I'll bet you there was some parallel construction
going on.

FWIW I have a hard time having sympathy for a drug kingpin hacker doing hard
time. Mess with the best, die like the rest.

------
Tomte
> I don’t claim that we don’t need to keep some people separated from free
> society.

Like people who contract the murders of other other people, in order to keep
their criminal empire, with zero remorse or appreciation what they have done?
Exactly.

~~~
Matticus_Rex
He wasn't convicted of that, so...

~~~
bmelton
Nor even charged

------
amriksohata
Reading this, it sounds like he is not pleading not guilty, but rather saying
whatever has been done but blah blah I don't deserve this. Reading into his
thought process feels very dark, I may be reading too much here but there
almost seems to be some subtle undertones of vengeance and encouraging (maybe
his past friends) to help seek revenge to what happened to him.

