
Rap Genius Traffic Has Dropped By Over 80% - hornbaker
https://www.quantcast.com/rapgenius.com?country=GLOBAL&1=1
======
jonknee
An interesting side effect of this is the phenomenon of less sophisticated
users who use Google as their address bar. If you run a decently well-known
website you see this in your analytics reports (at least back when you could
see Google search keywords)--repeat visitors coming to your site from Google
after searching for your site by name. This is why "facebook" is the top
Google search.

Since you can't find RapGenius by searching for it there is a decent sized
audience of people who are under the assumption that RapGenius _does not exist
anymore_. It's bizarre to the HN crowd, but very real. Check out their twitter
feed:

[https://twitter.com/RapGenius](https://twitter.com/RapGenius)

~~~
ddw
I consider myself sophisticated and I still use Google for something like Rap
Genius:

"rap genius kendrick lamar swimming pools" would get me there quicker than any
other way.

It's incredible that now that search string sends me to other pages that link
to RG's lyrics but not directly to theirs.

~~~
aliakbarkhan
If you actually knew how to use Google this wouldn't be a problem. The `site:`
filter is your friend.

~~~
redthrowaway
Or just set up a custom search engine in Chrome, eg:

chrome://settings/searchEngines

search engine: rapgenius.com

keyword: rg

url: [http://rapgenius.com/search?q=%s](http://rapgenius.com/search?q=%s)

Then just type rg<tab> in the omnibox and search for whatever you want, and
get taken to rg's serp.

~~~
Zarel
For most sites, Chrome should do this by default and the default keyword is
just the site's URL. So simply:

    
    
        rapgenius.com<tab>search terms
    

autocomplete is supported so you can also just do

    
    
        ra<tab>search terms
    

if rapgenius.com is your first autocomplete result for "ra"

~~~
redthrowaway
This feels like a bit of a regression. I used to be able to just use the
automatic search, but it seems to be breaking for more and more sites
recently. Even sites it used to pick up automatically, like tpb, now need to
be manually specified.

And there's still no damned excuse for them not being able to search
maps.google.com from the omnibox.

------
devanti
If RG thinks they're so great (and all the bandwagoners on HN), then they
should prove it by playing fairly.

My suspicion is that the vast majority of people who search for lyrics don't
care about song meanings or annotations. Azlyrics does just fine, which is why
they've always been at the top. If people wanted song meanings they would
search for song meanings.

My theory is that RG wasn't able to grow as fast as they hoped and have to
resort to these methods. How else can RG justify a $15 million investment?
Their biggest competitor, songmeanings.com, is bootstrapped with only a couple
employees, which shows the true market size of the song meanings / annotations
market.

Remember that most consumers want things that are insanely simple and give
them immediate satisfaction. I'm not surprised that most people on HN think
otherwise as they tend to be deeper thinkers than the average consumer.

~~~
someguyperson
The difference between RG and songmeanings, and really any other lyrics
website in existence, is the quality of the annotations. My habit of listening
to rap has changed quite dramatically since I have discovered RG - I don't
have to speculate about what a line might mean, because now there's a whole
community of people who love rap collate their collective wisdom and tell you
what it means. The verified annotations are also amazing...I mean seriously,
what other site has artists themselves explaining what they meant for their
own songs? I think the $15 million can be justified if you look at their long-
term plans. They've built a model with rap and now they're expanding onto
rock, pop and poetry. I see it this way: the sell for RG is for their whole
slew of websites to become the wikipedia for literary/artistic interpretation,
a position they have already locked down with rap. Whether that is worth $15
million is of course up to you, but it looks like it was worth it to some big
name investors.

~~~
devanti
Ok cool. So RG is way better than songmeanings.

That doesn't change the size of the market.

That is, unless you think the quality or features are so good that it will
increase the size of the market. In that sense, I don't think RG is
groundbreaking enough IMO.

Songmeanings has been around for over a decade. If the market demand was
really there ($15mm investment worth), they would naturally gotten some
funding, or enough revenue, to improve their product and soak the $ potential
out of the market.

~~~
songmeanings
We've been approached a handful of times for funding as well as potential
acquisitions into larger networks/sites throughout the years. However, the
logistics have never made much sense, if I am being honest, so we've always
declined.

Currently we are talking to a group which is very promising. Can't say much
more, but hopefully we can in the near future.

------
jawerty
I'm not sure if it's right or wrong what Google did, but it was certainly a
shit business decision. It's Google's job to be a proper search tool for
anyone to get the best possible results when searching something as simple as
"rapgenius". If I search "rapgenius" and don't get the hugely popular website
[http://rapgenius.com](http://rapgenius.com) as the first result, then that's
bad service on Google's end.

~~~
mschuster91
+1. Even if RapGenius did cheat, they are still the best solution for Google's
customers (i.e. those sheep whose data can be mined and sold).

So I don't get why Google essentially fucks up with their customers.

~~~
jonknee
Why is RapGenius the best result for Google searchers? I just want lyrics, if
Google can get me to them I am happy. RG has a ton of bloat that I don't want
or need.

~~~
sejje
Because when you google for "rapgenius" the best result is unquestionably
rapgenius.

~~~
001sky
No, when you have the website you don't need to "google" it.

~~~
leen
> _No, when you have the website you don 't need to "google" it._

You have the company name, not necessarily the website. It could be .com, .net
and probably reasonably well a few other ones.

------
tzs
Microsoft should jump on this. Run ads promoting Rap Genius as the best lyrics
site on the web, and noting that you can find it easily with Bing, but not
with Google. Kind of like those Visa ads that highlighted some cool place and
then said don't bother of you use American Express, because the cool place
doesn't take AmEx, it takes Visa.

~~~
hayksaakian
I wish I was a Microsoft marketing exec so I could take credit for this idea.

~~~
undoware
I'm sure some exec already has.

~~~
josephcooney
This is from the same team that brought us the 'scroogled' campaign? I doubt
they know what Rap Genius is....

~~~
001sky
This>
[http://www.billboard.com/files/styles/promo_650/public/media...](http://www.billboard.com/files/styles/promo_650/public/media/rap-
genius-techcrunch-conference-650-430.jpg)

------
crazygringo
I find Google's actions to be bizarre.

Getting people to link to you is what SEO is all about. Basically every site
concerned with SEO does it in one form or another -- I thought this was what
most every blog affiliate program was about!

So Google decides to "punish" RapGenius just because its program got a little
bit of public notice, while 99.9% of other sites which do the same, continue
doing the same thing, unpunished?

It just comes across as capricious and petty. For a site as large as Google,
there should be some kind of _due process_ involved with clear published
guidelines, or (preferably) they should just work on improving their
algorithm.

How is what Rap Genius is doing any different than Amazon or iTunes paying you
for affiliate links, or you paying a blog to advertise you, or buying a friend
a beer to include a link to you? Where exactly does the line get drawn?

~~~
sanswork
There are clear guidelines and due process.

Amazon and iTunes aren't paying you for the link they are paying you for the
sale.

In the second and third cases it is no different if you're paying for a
keyword link and if Google found out about it you would be penalized.

~~~
jonahx
Where can you find those guidelines?

~~~
smackfu
Besides the other links, here are the ones for link schemes, which are the
issue in this case:
[https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66356](https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66356)

------
nostromo
This has moved from an interesting case study in SEO to unadulterated
schadenfreude.

~~~
arkitaip
schadenfreude by who? Certainly not by Google or the media.

~~~
tptacek
By people who are not fans of Rap Genius, of which there are many. (I like the
site, for what it's worth).

~~~
001sky
Right, but this is a link to a piece of data. Calling it "emotive" is odd.

~~~
tedks
All data is emotive. All emotions stem from data.

When you look at the Mona Lisa or hear _Sun_ by Koreless (IMO the most
beautiful piece of music from 2013) you're processing data. It's just wave
oscillations or light refraction.

~~~
001sky
No, data is not per-se emotive. You're confusing (amongst other things) the
sub-set data that is _aesthtetic_ , with the complet set of Data, and in
vaguely more technical terms making an inference that is invalid.

------
baldajan
What I find shocking is a single company (Google) has the power to cause such
a dramatic decrease of a website it deemed "unworthy".

Sure, it can justify its actions by saying they broke the rules, but pressing
the a "death button" for a website is not a solution.

I feel as though Google needs to re-examine their core principles and
determine how to better handle an issue like this. Otherwise, I suspect Google
might have anti-trust and anti-competitive issues and the government might set
the rules for them, and we all know how bad that would be.

~~~
V-2
> but pressing the a "death button" for a website is not a solution.

What is a solution then? It seems like a good deterrent. It has to hurt.

In Poland (where I'm from) they similarly punished Ceneo, Skąpiec, Nokaut (all
most popular price comparator services) and even Tesco. See
[http://www.seoportal.pl/ceneo-skapiec-tesco-ukarane-przez-
go...](http://www.seoportal.pl/ceneo-skapiec-tesco-ukarane-przez-google)
(Polish) or
[http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&pre...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seoportal.pl%2Fceneo-
skapiec-tesco-ukarane-przez-google&act=url) (English by Google Translate).

Not one of these websites has died, but a lesson was taught.

~~~
grey-area
Should Google have that sort of power over almost every business in the world?

~~~
V-2
I agree that this is troubling in its own right. I just don't think that this
power was abused in this particular case.

------
beatpanda
Which is really a shame, because RapGenius is a better lyrics site than all
the rest by leaps and bounds. Google is acting like a cartel here and it's
absolutely ridiculous. I hope they can beat this thing.

~~~
benologist
I greatly prefer AZLyrics - they give me the lyrics on a page with just the
lyrics, that's all I want nearly 100% of the time.

It's not even a contest:
[http://i.imgur.com/H1QixcN.png](http://i.imgur.com/H1QixcN.png)

~~~
bichiliad
Don't forget that rap genius didn't / doesn't want to just be a lyrics site,
they also do the whole "what do these lyrics mean" deal. I'd have no idea what
2 Chainz was going on about half the time were it not for RG.

~~~
ugexe
You'd have no idea what 2 chainz was saying, or the meaning of what he is
saying?

Which begs the question: if you don't know what 2 chainz is going on about
half the time why do you listen to him?

~~~
sanswork
If you treat the voice as another instrument it can be enjoyable without
making sense.

------
pastpartisan
It started out as rap genius and now its extending its tentacles to all types
of music and even non-music related subjects Eventually, it would become just
another annoying agitator website that clutters the search results with less
than helpful results, so this was a good move on google's part.

------
dmak
There really needs to be some checks and balances here. Perhaps an opensource
search engine? I think an entity like Google having so much control over which
businesses die or survive is a little ridiculous.

~~~
camus2
The issue is Google has become the only way to discover content on the web.
Before Google, there was much more competition or alternative ways to make
content discoverable. Now people basically only "google" stuffs up, and that's
not going to change. And search capabilities on most websites are provided by
Google too ,that's insane and dangerous. Google has become the WEB and if you
are not on Google , you dont exist. Google is now an institution thus "too big
to fail",and so much for anti-trust laws.

------
wickedOne
ironically google trends shows a massive increase in interest
[http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=rapgenius.com](http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=rapgenius.com)

~~~
dasmithii
This reminds me of the Miley Cirus insanity of past months. She gained more
popularity than ever before by acting erotic and capitalizing on peoples'
disgust. People were promoting her name in insults and jokes around the world.

Here, the term "Rap Genius" is being popularized by controversy.

~~~
wickedOne
"there is no such thing as bad publicity…" would be really interesting to see
their analytics data / wonder that will be down 80% as well

~~~
dasmithii
Unfortunately, that quote applies far to often. I'm hesitant to comment on
threads like this for the same reason; I don't want to encourage such behavior
with my attention

------
michaelrbock
Hmm...

"This site reaches over 24 million monthly people, of which 12 million (48%)
are in the U.S.The typical visitor watches Nickelodeon, visits pbskids.org,
and listens to National Public Radio."

~~~
kunai
All I can glean from that is that the typical visitor to RapGenius can't be
bothered to set up a separate user account for his/her children.

This brings up an important point: hardly anyone knows how to configure or
troubleshoot their computer. This is by far a more important point than some
arbitrary "learn to code" movement that doesn't teach CS, and does NOT teach
programming – it's like giving somebody a hammer and telling them to nail a
nail into a board of wood, without teaching them how to _build_ anything with
that hammer. Instead, we should be teaching people how to maintain the
furniture they already _own_ first. I just have zero respect for Code.org at
this point, it's their own agenda they're trying to fulfill. They don't care
about the future of the U.S., it's just self-aggrandizement as usual.

Sorry for the OT.

~~~
KC8ZKF
I'm confused. Do you think RapGenius visitors are children or adults?

~~~
kunai
RapGenius visitors are probably adults or young adults, but the fact that the
average "visitor" visits NPR _and_ pbskids is indicative that the visitor has
children or siblings, which means that a child and an adult are on the same
browser on the same user.

~~~
the_rosentotter
> is indicative that the visitor has children or siblings

... or parents.

~~~
kunai
Fair point, but I doubt anyone visiting pbskids and Nick is upping their swag
by checking out what verse Jay-Z just busted.

------
WaterSponge
Does this not prove the incentive to win at SEO at all costs?

Has google disclosed other sites penalized for the same behavior?

~~~
JohnTHaller
All kinds of sites regularly get penalized for this type of behavior.

------
bdcravens
So everyone talks about RG being superior due to its annotation. (true) But
doesn't this identify that 80% of it's traffic comes from "m-low dogg gangsta
money freaks and junk lyrics" searches? So at maximum, 20% of users use
annotation features (surely some still use it for purely lyrics simply due to
it being it easy to remember)

~~~
chatmasta
That's ignoring the presumably large contingent of users including myself and
other commenters here who use Google as a direct line to search Rapgenius,
like "Rapgenius Kendrick Lamar swimming pools," as it's faster than going to
Rapgenius itself.

You could get more accurate numbers by looking at at percent of search traffic
to Rapgenius does not include the keyword "Rapgenius" (though you can't do
that anymore since google now scrubs SERP referrers).

------
mikeg8
I wonder if this penalty would have been this severe if their "apology" was an
actual apology. If I was in Google's position and had waited to see the RG
response, I would have been less forgiving after the tone of that letter. But
that is just my opinion...

------
scrrr
Impressive what one company can do to you if they decide you're not playing by
their rules. (Not defending RG, I just think this is a good example of how
much power Google has..)

~~~
bdcravens
That's our world. Everytime we trumpet the fact that they're a power that can
stand up to the Apples and NSAs of the world, remember where that power and
strength comes from. Not a bad thing, merely a double-edged sword.

------
iancarroll
Has Google specified when the penalty will end?

------
Soviet
Why?

~~~
hornbaker
See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6956658](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6956658)

~~~
Soviet
Thanks!

------
hydralist
why is rap genius the best for lyrics? if i want lyrics, i want a simple print
out of the lyrics

~~~
YungLean
They have added value in their annotated lyrics, which comes in handy
especially with cryptic word play/slang in rap lyrics.

~~~
Destitute
You realize any Joe Schmoe can annotate what he personally believes the
meaning of a particular lyric is.

If you read any Kanye West lyrics on that site, they break down every line
like it's some kind of literary divine intervention of pure brilliance by
grasping at every straw possible.

~~~
YungLean
That's because every Kanye West line literally is a literary divine
intervention of pure brilliance, of course. Anyway, there is a verification
system in place and you can also discuss the line through a commenting system.
I usually find their annotations to be precise and correct.

------
fuckpig
"Don't be evil." Well, at least until you become a monopolist. Then go right
ahead.

------
leoplct
it's ridiculous! Google cannot do this!

~~~
msutherl
It's ridiculous because breaking the rules and not getting caught is the only
way to win the game.

