
Why the Arabic world turned away from science (2011) - neon_evangelion
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science
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blacksmith_tb
Hmm, always suspect when you see a thesis about a large and varied group of
societies doing anything en masse. For example, today Iran is about 20% the
size of the USA, but produces nearly as many engineers[1], in spite of being
an Islamic republic.

1: [https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/06/09/the-
co...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/06/09/the-countries-
with-the-most-engineering-graduates-infographic/#c997570667d6)

~~~
Wildgoose
Excellent point - but to what extent is this because Iran (or Persia as was)
has been an ancient developed civilisation reaching back into antiquity,
unlike much more recent (Arab) nations such as Saudi Arabia?

Or in other words, to what extent is this a cultural issue rather than a
religious one?

~~~
charlysl
Iran has a glorious past, but, by the end of the 19th century it was
unbelievably backwards, specially when compared to an encroaching Europe. For
instance, there were no roads at all. All transport was by camels and mules,
still a land of caravansarais. There was no police, in fact, there was no
state as we understand it; all the shah did was stay all day in the haram. The
only institution that cared at all for the people was the clergy. The old
dynasty collapsed in early 20th century, and the new shah, Reza, tried to
emulate his model Ataturk and modernize the country in the western fashion.
Basically, what they attempted was what the Illustration monarchs did in
Europe in the 18th century. He and his son went a long way in doing this, but
also clashed badly with the mullahs. The clash with the West and modernity was
brutal, and it's consequences can be seen all the way to our days.

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tomlock
> In trying to explain the Islamic world’s intellectual laggardness, it is
> tempting to point to the obvious factors: authoritarianism, bad education,
> and underfunding (Muslim states spend significantly less than developed
> states on research and development as a percentage of GDP). But these
> reasons are all broad and somewhat crude, and raise more questions than
> answers. At a deeper level, Islam lags because it failed to offer a way to
> institutionalize free inquiry.

This is a pretty blunt and unconvincing dismissal of some pretty huge factors.

\---

The article makes some pretty strong claims that Islam currently has some
fundamental beef with science due to a philosophical beef with causality as a
"natural" force that does not exist in the West. I must disagree, not with the
idea that Islam has this beef, but that this beef does not exist in the West.
It is simultaneously true that Christians have been scientists, and that
Muslims have been, and that both institutions have, at various times both
endorsed and indicted the scientific method - and more specifically the idea
that natural phenomena are causal without the influence of god.

Perhaps the author has heard of Leibniz's seminal work, Monadology? In this
work Leibniz essentially argues that all action and causality in the universe
is the result of God's great plan unfolding, that every action and reaction is
predetermined, stored in every fragment of matter and that causality
effectively does not exist. Now, according to the article, this kind of denial
of causality is antithetical to scientific thinking and progress. Leibniz,
along with Newton, is widely credited with the discovery of Calculus.

~~~
porpoisely
Interesting point. Descartes, who influenced science, math and philosophy,
also placed god at the center of everything. Even his own existence ( cogito
ergo sum ) depended on god existing and being fundamentally good. Newton also
credited god for the natural motion of the planets and gravity in principia.
And of course some of the giants in biology like Linnaeus and Mendel were
clergymen.

They were men of their times and their belief that god directed the natural
world ( or that the natural world worked according to god ) didn't stop their
scientific pursuits.

I doubt religion is solely responsible for the arab world's lack of scientific
research. It's probably a mix of political instability, levels of poverty,
lack of leadership by the elites and dependence on oil, gas and natural
resources for wealth.

~~~
MichaelMoser123
> I doubt religion is solely responsible for the arab world's lack of
> scientific research. It's probably a mix of political instability, levels of
> poverty, lack of leadership by the elites and dependence on oil, gas and
> natural resources for wealth.

The article sites some hard reason here but then argues them away: the Mongols
sacking of Baghdad and the Spanish reconquista. I wonder how Europe would look
like today if somebody had sacked Italy during the renaissance. In my book
Europe was just lucky that it was shielded from significant disruptions
(relative to the rest of the world) during the high and late middle ages due
to geography and partition into competing centers.

~~~
porpoisely
The destruction of baghdad and the spanish reconquista are convenient excuses
with very little merit. The islamic empire was already very old and in decline
by the time of the mongol and spanish conquests. Also, much of eastern europe
was conquered by the mongols. It hasn't stopped them from embracing science.
China was conquered by the mongols, they have embraced science.

Europe ( italy mostly ) was lucky because the pope decided to "submit" to the
mongols and they were rewarded handsomely with trade privileges. The italian
renaissance was a direct result of immense wealth generated by trade with the
mongol empire.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_non_solum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_non_solum)

Without the mongol empire, there is no trade, no transfer of knowledge and
technology from the east to the west and no italian wealth and hence no
italian renaissance.

Interestingly enough, without the mongol empire ( or the collapse of it ),
there is no columbus, no discovery of americas, no european exploration and
therefore no enlightenment.

In 1480, the russians finally ended the reign of the Golden Horde and ended
europe's trade link to the east. 12 years later, an italian sailor set out to
find another trade link to the east.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_stand_on_the_Ugra_river](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_stand_on_the_Ugra_river)

We aren't taught this in school but central theme of the past 500 years has
been europe trying to establish trade links with the east ( primarily china
and india ) that the mongol empire had provided them from the 1200s to the
1400s.

~~~
MichaelMoser123
> Without the mongol empire, there is no trade, no transfer of knowledge and
> technology from the east to the west and no italian wealth and hence no
> italian renaissance.

> In 1480, the russians finally ended the reign of the Golden Horde and ended
> europe's trade link to the east. 12 years later, an italian sailor set out
> to find another trade link to the east.

Interesting, where does the silk road pass through Russia? I thought the end
of trade between China with Europe had had more to do with the Ming dynasty
closing in on itself (after the and of the Yuan dynasty). Go figure.

~~~
chewz
> I thought the end of trade between China with Europe had had more to do with
> the Ming dynasty closing in on itself (after the and of the Yuan dynasty).
> Go figure.

Or decline of great trading cities of Central Asia after Timur armies
destroyed their water canals during comquest...

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auslander
Because religion. Even today we have it en masse. Half, 50%, of US population
don't believe in evolution theory, compared to 8-15% population of european
countries.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism)

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chewz
I am no expert but I find the topics of Lost Enlightenment Central Asia's
Golden Age from the Arab Conquest to Tamerlane very convincing.

[https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10064.html](https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10064.html)

"Because nearly all of these figures wrote in Arabic, they were long assumed
to have been Arabs. In fact, they were from Central Asia--drawn from the
Persianate and Turkic peoples of a region that today extends from Kazakhstan
southward through Afghanistan, and from the easternmost province of Iran
through Xinjiang, China."

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c3534l
That was a thoughtful read. I would encourage anyone to actually read it; the
author seems to know what he's talking about and to have carefully considered
what he's saying.

