
List of oldest companies: Before 1300 - aleyan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies#Before_1300
======
billmalarky
I've had the amazing opportunity to stay at Hoshi Inn (4th oldest on the
list)! I keep the card on my desk
([https://i.imgur.com/AyWUGhg.png](https://i.imgur.com/AyWUGhg.png) :-)

The courtyard garden the inn is built around is absolutely stunning, and the
hot springs were the best out of all the ryokans we stayed at in Japan. The
best part though is the hotel is actively managed and operated by the family -
these wonderful people will meet you at the door.

There is concern about the future of the hotel, as the son who was assumed to
take on ownership of the inn passed away suddenly, leaving the responsibility
to the adult daughter. She's seems exceptionally capable (not to mention is
incredibly pleasant), but she is unmarried/childless and seems unsure of her
desire to marry or assume ownership of the inn. Clearly it would not be the
same if the business continued on operated by someone outside the family.

I highly recommend watching this short film about the situation:
[https://vimeo.com/114879061](https://vimeo.com/114879061)

edit: replaced "bloodline" with "family" as I've been told Japanese culture
resolves bloodline continuity issues via adult adoption.

~~~
justincormack
It is traditional in Japan to adopt people into family firms.

eg see [http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/japanese-adoption-
ra...](http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/japanese-adoption-rates-
majority-adult-men-a7524301.html)

~~~
billmalarky
Well that's an interesting solution! Japanese culture is not without its
faults, but it is just so damn fascinating. Sigh... I need to go back.

~~~
laurentoget
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_in_ancient_Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_in_ancient_Rome)

interesting similarity between Japan and ancient Rome, there.

~~~
int_19h
It's a rather common arrangement in many cultures where things are organized
around families (which is most of them, at some development stage).

------
navidfarhadi
The oldest name on this list that stood out to me is Weihenstephan brewery,
founded in 1040 in Bavaria, Germany. They have some of the finest lagers I
have ever tried. If you enjoy crisp, refreshing lager beers, I highly
recommend their beers. My favorite one is probably the Weihenstephaner
Hefeweissbier, followed by the Hefeweissbier Dunkel.

Note: I am not affiliated in any way with the company, I just highly enjoy
their beers.

~~~
dmayle
Beer nazi here... Hefeweizen/weissbier is not a lager. Lagers are cold bottom-
fermented beers. Hefeweizen is warm top-fermented beer.

~~~
minikites
>Beer nazi

You may want to reconsider this phrasing.

~~~
reitanqild
When I write this minikites is downvoted for no good reason.

As much as I support freedom of speech I also think it's unwise to normalize
nazism.

Reminding people not to normalize nazism isn't something one should be
downvoted for in my book.

~~~
icebraining
Just as an alternative point of view, they're debasing and ridiculing the
term, whereas you're helping to inflate its importance by trying to keep it a
taboo.

As an aside, here's an interview with the Jewish actor who played the Soup
Nazi: [http://uproxx.com/tv/soup-nazi-interview-seinfeld-
apartment/](http://uproxx.com/tv/soup-nazi-interview-seinfeld-apartment/)

~~~
reitanqild
Well, I give you an upvote for that.

Good answer but I don't agree.

~~~
perl4ever
Taking offense at "beer Nazi" could lead someone to infer that you believe the
term Nazi must only be used in a dignified context. Who is normalizing what is
in the eye of the beholder, as people have been belittling Nazis since the
1930s.

~~~
reitanqild
Ok. Let me argue a bit further:

Whatever we've done lately obviously hasn't worked. Seinfeld has been sent
again and again and yet we see nazis marching proudly in Charlotteville and
elsewhere.

The world should not forget what nazism caused, what communism caused, what
nationalism caused, what racism caused etc.

I'd be tempted to say: learn kids to hate those things but I'm not a fan of
big words.

But I certainly think more focus on history lessons would be a good thing.

Or maybe we need something similar to this, only for thoughts:
[https://www.damninteresting.com/this-place-is-not-a-place-
of...](https://www.damninteresting.com/this-place-is-not-a-place-of-honor/)

~~~
geofft
A bit of an orthogonal argument: the problem isn't Nazis _per se_ , it's what
Nazis believed. Treating the idea of Nazis as too serious to make fun of and
treating the idea of making fun of Nazis as a noble goal both have the fallacy
that the thing we're saying "Never again" to is people with swastikas and
straight-arm salutes. Now, yes, there were a few of those people at
Charlottesville. But there are a lot more people who have the same ideology as
Nazis - that ethnic minorities are the cause of the ethnic majority's economic
anxiety, that a special police force to put ethnic minorities in concentration
camps is totally fine as long as there are valid laws supporting that, that
local opposition to this police force is illegitimate and treasonous, that the
sexually "deviant" are ruining the integrity of our culture, that we have more
of a duty to the well-being of our own race than to the survival of other
races, etc. - without having any of the visible trappings of Nazis. The more
that we say that the thing we object to (either by avoidance or
reappropriation) is "Nazis," the more we make room for people with the same
beliefs to prosper under different names.

(Side argument: putting the focus on "Nazis" also seems to invent distance
between the man on the street in 1930s Germany, who just wanted a good life
for his family, a prosperous economy for his country, and success for his
nation's troops, and us in our own countries today, because that man lived in
Nazi Germany and voted for the Nazi Party. It explains away the fact that an
entire country like any other Western country suddenly went along with the
Nazi agenda because that country was, somehow, full of Nazis, who are,
somehow, different from us.)

I have seen lots of people make the argument that "Nazi" is a bad descriptor
for anti-Muslim beliefs/policies that closely resemble historic Nazi anti-
Jewish policies, because they're anti-Muslim and not anti-Jewish. (Usually
this comes with some sort of argument about "Judeo-Christian values," or about
how Islam is _different_ , or something - and when I point out that the same
sorts of attitudes were prevalent at the time against Jews and Judaism, they
seem to think it's an answer that those people were wrong and they're right.)
I think that's a sign that we've failed badly to teach "Never again" in a
meaningful way, in a way that realizes that the problem is not to make sure
it's never 1930s Germany again - of course it never will be. It will be
somewhere else, someplace else, and some other people.

------
rplnt
I think it's hard to argue it's the same company in some cases. The breweries
in particular used to be _a_ brewery in said city (the city had right to have
a brewery). Different owners, different locations, later different legal
companies, periods of inactivity, etc.. The continuity is lost beyond "there
was a brewery in this town 600 year ago".

~~~
gist
The list is interesting entertainment but I am skeptical about how they
determine oldest other than what a wikipedia page says in some cases.

It's not like we are talking about dates which have been certified by experts
at auction houses for personal property.

~~~
zerokernel
I'll just throw in here that faking contracts and certificates has been a huge
business in the last ~1200 years or so in Europe. Many cities who claimed to
have been founded a thousand years ago (or whatever) had to cede those claims
since the historical papers were faked (usually hundreds of years ago).

------
geofft
Wow, this web page looks like it hasn't been updated since 1439:
[http://www.luebeckaltstadthotel.de/](http://www.luebeckaltstadthotel.de/)

~~~
tobinfricke
* Loads instantly

* Provides all relevant information at a glance

Needs more Javascript?

~~~
mrweasel
And doesn't work as they intended, the links behind the picture isn't actually
click-able.

~~~
djsumdog
Yea, same here on Vivaldi. It probably looks correct in Netscape Navigator.

Sites like this are pretty cool to stumble upon though. They are a snapshot in
time. It's not even /that/ old. It takes you back to a simpler era where pages
loaded on dialup.

------
strictnein
Equally interesting would a list of companies that lasted for 500, 750, or a
1000 years but then failed.

Imagine being the last person to run a 1000 year old company.

~~~
INTPenis
Well the oldest company on that list was bought and now only exists as a
subsidiary. Imagine being the person behind that decision. To end a 1500 year
old dynasty with the stroke of a pen.

------
GotAnyMegadeth
I felt quite sad to read the fate of the top of that list

> Kongō Gumi Co., Ltd. (株式会社金剛組 Kabushiki Gaisha Kongō Gumi) is a Japanese
> construction company which was the world's oldest continuously ongoing
> independent company, operating for over 1,400 years until it was absorbed as
> a subsidiary of Takamatsu in 2006.

~~~
billmalarky
The future of Hoshi Inn (#4 on list) is uncertain as well, see my other
comment for details
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16187837](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16187837)

------
jweir
One take away from this list is that no software firms have survived. I would
recommend hotels or booze if you want a business to last.

~~~
ergest
Serve an eternal need and you'll have an eternal business

------
MatthewWilkes
I had a fun run-in with this q couple of years ago. We had a field in company
profile fkr the year of founding whose validator was '4 digits'.

~~~
gboudrias
I laughed, but this reminds me of an article that was posted here a while ago:
[http://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-
programm...](http://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programmers-
believe-about-time)

It's very easy to get dates wrong.

------
iagooar
The oldest restaurant in Europe is in Wroclaw:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piwnica_Świdnicka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piwnica_Świdnicka)

I once went there without knowing the fact, and it amazed me. It feels so
different to sit between those old walls, trying to imagine how the place used
to be before or during WWII, or in the 13th century...

~~~
kaeluka
Stiftskeller St. Peter is much older, according to this list: before 803.

~~~
lukasm
Maybe the difference is that Stiftskeller offered rooms so it's not
technically a restaurant?

------
mrarjen
Weihenstephan is still one of my fav breweries. Would be nice to see articles
regarding how some of these companies managed to keep going for this long.

~~~
trevyn
“Be in a timeless industry” seems to have heavy weighting :-)

Most are hospitality or alcohol production, it looks like.

~~~
jjuhl
"Be in a timeless industry” - then there should be at least one brothel in the
list..

~~~
fileeditview
I have a hunch that brothels are rarely a family business.. so that might be a
reason why there is none. :)

------
twobyfour
The older tiers of this list seem to be heavily dominated by Japan, Germany,
and Switzerland. Is that reflective of something other than the demographics
of non-"New World" contributors to Wikipedia?

~~~
linopolus
The US were founded in 1787, Columbus reached America in 1492, so how do you
expect to find companies there older than that?

~~~
twobyfour
Right, _obviously_ they're not going to be in the New World. The question is
why _those_ countries, of all the ones in the Old World? There's very little
in France, the UK, Norway, Albania, India, Syria, and a heck of a lot of other
places with thousands of years of history.

~~~
philipwhiuk
> France

Two total wars (WW1 and WW2, plus numerous other invasions and revolutions).

> the UK,

has 10 of the list, not sure how many you're expecting

> Norway,

Population only 5 million. Considerable famine in 1690s.

> Albania

Italian occupation in WW2.

> India

British occupation

> Syria

French then British occupation, then Ba'ath, with coups.

> and a heck of a lot of other places with thousands of years of history.

Mostly lots of invasions. Britain hasn't been invaded since 1066. Japan has
had plenty of wars but no serious land occupation since the Mongols.

~~~
twobyfour
But by that logic, Germany makes zero sense.

------
turc1656
It's really incredible to see something like this. I was disheartened to see
that Kongō Gumi was acquired in 2006 after 1,400+ years in business. It's just
hard to wrap your mind around. But to see hotels and wineries that have
existed for over a millennia is really quite amazing.

------
jpatokal
I hate to rain on the parade, but many of the ancient Japanese inn entries are
a bit dubious. They're mostly based on traveler's reports that there was an
inn at X/a new hot spring was found at X in year Y being conflated with the
fact that there's an inn at X now: they may well be the same, but it's hardly
ironclad proof of continuous operation.

~~~
throwwwwaway9
_> >but it's hardly ironclad proof of continuous operation._

Beats the rest of the evidence, no? Also, we're not betting our lives in
this...

------
Zenst
There sure is alot of pub and accommodation entries, but then that is one area
that technology and indeed, industrialization and the other progressive phases
in society have not impacted as much as other industries.

On a positive and encourage note - not one single manufacturer of weapons
listed at all.

~~~
linopolus
Sorry to disappoint you:

1526 Beretta Italy Firearms

1578 Klett Germany Firearms

1674 Sabatti Italy Firearms

~~~
Zenst
Ah, darn, I missed those somehow, oh well. Appreciate the correction - learn
more from being wrong.

------
alangibson
Hirter beer still sucks, even if it has been around since 1270.

~~~
krsdcbl
Funny, i actually really like Hirter - specially their more traditional red
beers

------
mongol
StoraEnso is marked as Finland, but that is due to a recent merger and the
location of the HQ of the current company. The company Stora Kopparberg
operated a mine in Falun, Sweden from which company shares exist from 1288.

------
dmead
Missing this?

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avedis_Zildjian_Company](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avedis_Zildjian_Company)

~~~
RandallBrown
Zildjian is on the list, it's just not from before 1300.

------
bewatson
Interestingly, the list lower on the page that has companies from 1300 to 1399
is twice as long. Does anyone know if something significant happened in the
world that leaves so many more companies from that century around?

------
crappybird
Should not the church be on top of this list?

~~~
interfixus
I was thinking there would be a very good case for the Vatican to occupy the
number one spot.

Whether seen solely as the papal organisation , or as a kind of continuation
of the (Western) Roman Empire, these guys have been in day to day business for
at least close to two thousand years. And have the archives to prove it. Wanna
check up on some royal correspondance from the year 500? They may well have
the actual letters stashed away somewhere.

Also: I don't _really_ think the for-profit filter disqualifies them here.

~~~
maze-le
Another interesting tidbit to add here: one of the official titles of the
pope, pontifex maximux (high priest), has its origins in the kingdom of Rome,
well before the Republic was established (509 BC). Though written records
don't exist of that time period, its inception is traditionally accounted to
the second king of Rome, Numa (rulership ~715 – ~673 BC). This makes it one of
the oldest titles, if not the oldest official title still in use.

~~~
mark212
2700 Years is nothing. At my synagogue in Southern California we have a couple
dozen Kohens, a title in continuous use (with varying and evolving
responsibilities to be sure) for at least 4000 years.

------
atomic77
Something I can't help but notice: all of the countries on the list are
currently wealthy, advanced economies.

Cause or effect?

~~~
jedberg
Both? Most likely it's because those countries have strong traditions of
record keeping and have been fairly stable culturally.

~~~
atomic77
Maybe it's a reflection of a sort of long term, virtuous loop. Stability
brings wealth, wealth reinforces the need for stability. Shocks can occur
(e.g. Japan and Germany most recently) but note how quickly they're right back
where they were, at least on multi-generational timescale.

------
keymone
it's incredible to realize that there still exists (technically) a company
that was a _thousand_ years old in _1500s_.

------
gf263
Fascinating. Is it Japanese culture to maintain the family business?

~~~
mywittyname
I believe that it is tradition for the founding family to adopt the next
generation head of the business.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption#Econom...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption#Economic_impact)

~~~
liberte82
That seems like cheating.

~~~
travmatt
Roman political families regularly adopted heirs as well. Rome’s first emperor
Augustus was the adopted heir of Julius Casaer.

~~~
oelmekki
And to further the argument, the fact that one decided to put his blood son as
emperor (Marcus Aurelius) is often seen has one of the early cause of roman
decline.
[https://www.realclearhistory.com/2017/03/16/commodus_and_the...](https://www.realclearhistory.com/2017/03/16/commodus_and_the_decline_of_roman_empire_1814.html)

------
geoffreyhale
"...excluding associations and educational, government, or religious
organizations."

And yet it lists "government owned institution" Monnaie de Paris, "government-
owned" Royal Mint, et cetera...

Ignoring those rule-breakers, 7 of Europe's top 10 are alcohol-related, while
Japan holds the top 5 with primarily Hotel and Construction companies.

------
perseusprime11
Don't recognize most of them but the other day I learned Nokia was
incorporated in 1871 and it is still around.

~~~
turc1656
I just noticed that Stella Artois is 650 years old!

~~~
perseusprime11
and still doing good...Here's their superbowl ad:
[http://adage.com/article/special-report-super-bowl/stella-
ar...](http://adage.com/article/special-report-super-bowl/stella-artois-super-
bowl-ad-starring-matt-damon/311945/)

------
SSLy
If you squint your eyes just right you could consider the Latin Catholic
Church to be one of these.

~~~
dragonwriter
Well, religious institutions are expressly excluded, so, no, neither the Roman
Catholic Church nor the (dominant) subset thereof known as the Latin Rite
(either of which might be want is intended by “Latin Catholic Church”) would
qualify.

------
hawktheslayer
I was very surprised to see a pub (Sean's) owned by Boy George on this list!

~~~
1337biz
Bought it probably for its history. He always seemed a genuine good person
behind the flashy persona.

~~~
billmalarky
It's probably worth mentioning that his drug use has led to some pretty
abhorrent behavior. That said I'm a believer that people should be judged on
the sum of all their actions not reduced to their worst moments.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_George#Conviction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_George#Conviction)

------
known
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianyifang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianyifang)
in 1416 is the first Chinese Restaurant

~~~
pbhjpbhj
The history says that restaurant was established in 1850s when the owners
hired a chef from the original Bianyifang, and that the name was common
amongst several restaurants. Sounds like a separate business to me.

------
nkg
Surprise! The oldest company in Ireland is a pub.

~~~
jotm
Well, what did you expect, a potato farm? :D

------
jjuhl
Given that prostitution often claims to be the oldest game in town, it's
surprising that there are no brothels in this list.

~~~
turc1656
I suspect that's because pretty much every country/civilization in the past
2,000 years at some point or another has banned prostitution as a matter of
law/force.

~~~
pjmlp
Things changed a bit since Babylon days, about 3,000 years ago.

------
cholter
As a history buff I would love to see a similar list of these companies
filtered down to the ones that are still using the original building. It is so
rare that you see centuries-old organizations/businesses/anything that still
use the same buildings that they were created with

------
rurban
This list looks very suspicious when the largest company ever, the VOC founded
1602
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company)
founded is not listed there. Apparently only small family companies are
listed, not the big ones.

The 2nd biggest company of those times, the Fugger copper mining company
founded 1494, dissolved 1657
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger)
is also not listed, neither the 3rd largest, the Welser banking and merchant
companies. Welsersche Handelsgesellschaft 1490 and ...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welser)

~~~
ViktorV
I suppose that the company has to be functioning in the present too.

~~~
rurban
Yes, that's the purpose. Oldest still existing companies. But I didn't like
that the biggest ones, bigger than today's Amazon or Google are not in it.

~~~
arduanika
I suppose that the company has to be old too

------
dsfyu404ed
The theme here appears to be food and shelter.

I'd also wager that some students in Japan were given an assignment to
research an old company or business and then place it on the list.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
So you see that in the edit history - like 30 users from Japan all adding new
entries on the same day?

------
microcolonel
There are world religions younger than Kongō Gumi.

------
lobo_tuerto
Wow Japan totally dominates the lists! I wonder how they do that.

------
btomar
Why is there no East India Company in this list?

~~~
lucozade
It's not currently in operation and hasn't been since the 19C. Also it wasn't
set up till the 17C so is a whippersnapper in comparison to this list.

------
artur_makly
Great list of potential startup names too!

------
JoeAltmaier
Universities aren't included?

~~~
freehunter
If you listed universities, it seems like you'd have to list churches as well,
and then they would dominate the list. They're not really "companies", more
like organizations.

The page even says "excluding associations and educational, government, or
religious organizations."

------
thiscatis
So many breweries!

