
The Loophole in the Hedonic Treadmill - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/blog/the-loophole-in-the-hedonic-treadmill
======
lqdc13
Lots of contradictory stadies on this subject:

Money buys happiness until you have $75,000 (the one they are citing):

[https://www.princeton.edu/~deaton/downloads/deaton_kahneman_...](https://www.princeton.edu/~deaton/downloads/deaton_kahneman_high_income_improves_evaluation_August2010.pdf)

Money always buys happiness - no limit:

[http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2013/...](http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2013/04/subjective%20well%20being%20income/subjective%20well%20being%20income.pdf)

However, it seems to not matter that much as money only explains 1.8% of the
variance in subjective well being:

[http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1010079728426](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1010079728426)

~~~
J-dawg
The one I always find a little unsettling is the idea that relative wealth has
a greater impact on happiness than absolute wealth. The inference that
happiness is a zero-sum game doesn't sit well with me.

In South American countries for example, it certainly seems to be true that
middle class professionals have a pretty nice lifestyle partially _as a result
of_ inequality in society. (For example, it's pretty normal to have a live-in
housekeeper to clean and cook for you)

~~~
Retric
Many things _are_ zero sum. Land does not increase just because world GDP
grows. Further, increasing wealth does not mean every resource becomes more
abundant.

Gold supply for example is fairly fixed because we have already mined the
stuff for thousands of years and most of that old gold is still around.
Granted, there is a lot of gold out there something like 2 pounds per person,
but that it. Want more than that, take it from someone else.

Housekeeping is an edge case where everyone wants it, but nobody wants to do
it. So, it only shows up due to wealth disparity.

PS: The abundance of food _is_ also great wealth, but you only need so many
calories a day.

~~~
kwhitefoot
> Housekeeping is an edge case where everyone wants it, but nobody wants to do
> it.

It's not that no one wants to do it. The problem is that it is regarded as a
low status job and is also, almost invariably, low paid and poorly regulated.

------
scotch_drinker
Another loophole is to always treasure what you have. I bought a 2009 Hyundai
Santa Fe in 2009 because I really enjoyed the car I test drove. I still drive
that car today with 135K miles on it. At least once a week, when I get in, I
try to think "I really like this car." Even though it's now 7 years old,
starting to get creaky and long ago lost the new car smell, I try to remember
what it was like to really enjoy the car. By doing this regularly, I have been
able to prevent some of the effects of hedonic accustomization. Reading Stoic
philosophy helps too. A Guide to the Good Life is a good place to start.

~~~
jpsierens
Yeah, I agree with you that you can get joy out of old material possessions
such as your car, I do so myself. But I wonder if you're applying the Stoic
philosophy in the correct way?

I also read a part of the book so when you say you try to think "I really like
this car", shouldn't the thought be "Boy imagine I'd lose this car today, or
maybe it gets robbed, I better enjoy it before that happens" instead? At least
that's what I got out of the book, to excercise "negative visualization
regularly.

~~~
cooperpellaton
I think you're most certainly right that the negative visualization is a
central part of Stoic philosophy as it's applicable today but I don't think
you're example is correct in this scenario. Instead, in this case, I think
it's appropriate to not drive the car and/or to remember that no matter how
old the car is, it is still far-far better than the worst possible reality
such as that where the OP doesn't own a car, or has one in significantly worse
shape.

I like to practice this own philosophy in my life to remind myself that no
matter how frustrated I am with my possessions or with my work that I could be
in a much worse place than I am currently. It also helps, a lot, to be a
minimalist because it makes you all that much more appreciative of the few
things you have (especially when you own good ones!).

------
ljw1001
The idea that you can buy happiness is the great fairy tale of capitalism. Of
course, other things equal, you are better off with more money. The problem is
that if you choose to maximize income, other things aren't equal anymore.

Sure, more and better experiences can make you happier, but do you have to pay
a lot for them for that to be true?

Searching for loopholes is not going to be as fruitful in the long run as
choosing to play a different game.

~~~
Artistry121
Capitalism is not the idea that you buy happiness. It's the idea that you
freely trade with others to get items you need.

It creates abundance - even overabundance for some - and then one can choose
what level of consumption they want. Less buying = higher savings = more
capital or leisure time so capitalism can actually encourage savings.

~~~
llamataboot
Capitalism as a philosophical idea of free trade is far different than how
corporate capitalism has actually looked in practice though. Not only in terms
of power and information disparities and massive externalities making a
mockery of the idea of "pure capitalism" (much as crushing and brutal
authoritarianism made a mockery of "pure Communism") but also because
advertising is a mind control weapon. I know its popular for smart people to
think that advertising doesn't affect them but I can assure you that it is
VERY hard to choose what level of consumption you want to live it while you
are swimming in a sea of advertisements designed to make you feel
unconsciously dissatisfied with what you have. The only experiment I could
think of to counter this would be to live mostly off the grid or deep in an
"undeveloped" country for a year or two and watch how your consciousness
shifts. Otherwise it is like the fish that is looking for the water.

------
empressplay
Side projects also improve happiness once you have enough money to buy a cart-
full of groceries without thinking about it. Writing, coding, performance --
it's all good!

~~~
return0
I would like to emphasize that. Building something that some people find
useful is satisfying and motivational.

~~~
frankus
I would expand that to helping people in general. There's definitely a
diminishing marginal utility effect to income once you get to a certain point,
but you can sidestep that by using your resources to help someone who's on a
much steeper part of that curve.

------
Swizec
Bollocks. Nothing brings me as much happiness and bliss than looking at my
bank account balance and seeing that I have 6 months worth of fuck you money.
That no matter what happens, I can bankroll my life for 6 months before I have
to fix the cashflow situation.

Anyone who says money doesn't bring happiness has either never gone without,
given up, or has so much that they can't conceivably spend it.

Experiences are great. So is plastic surgery. If you can afford them.

~~~
pdpi
Can't recall the source, but there was an article here a long while ago that
basically said that basically unhappiness is not just negative happiness, it's
a separate metric altogether, and that your overall mood is the combination of
your happiness and unhappiness. Under that model, money is rarely good at
buying happiness, but it's great at getting rid of unhappiness.

Not sure how you'd describe it, but the "fuck you money" fund to me is more
about peace of mind and not feeling pressured into stuff I don't want to do
than it is something that makes me actively happy.

~~~
agumonkey
I wanted to say something similar. Money can relieve from one kind of pain,
the substrate (shelter, heat, food) not the existential pain (passion, love,
independence, etc etc). Now the question, is it better to have one without the
other.

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s3arch
I feel people who work on to fill the void of their inner core, will always
tend to stay happy.

Here subjects who carried a void of low self esteem, by changing their looks
coupled with how they viewed themselves and the world later on, had a powerful
effect.

The same could be achieved if you had a good bank balance, and spent it on the
matters, which yields good experiences, and in turn changes the way you view
yourself and the world. Most of the time, it requires you to stay humble. But
usually people don't prefer this. :)

------
hashkb
I think the most remarkable bit here is that the way we feel about how we look
our is the strongest predictor of happiness and self esteem. I think money vs
happiness is less interesting (and we've covered it on HN weekly) than pretty
vs happiness.

My 2c: duh. If you draw confidence and security just from looking at yourself,
you have an advantage.

------
barrkel
Buy a motorcycle. It's a thing, but it gives you experiences.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
Buy a bicycle. It's a thing, but it costs a lot less, is a lot cleaner and
safer, and still gives you experiences.

~~~
maehwasu
I've done both a lot, and there's no way you can compare riding a bike to
going 250mpg on a motorcycle.

Of course, like many awesomely fun things, it's quite dangerous, which is why
I won't start riding again until I'm 55 or so.

~~~
brianwawok
Ever go 50 MPH down a hill on a bicycle in TT position? If all you want is
scary, I think this would meet your needs ;)

~~~
frgewut
He was talking about mpg (miles per gallon). He seems to be a hypermiler.

------
petra
We also know that media experiences(movies/games/music) are less susceptible
to the hedonic treadmill than objects. But i'm curious, how close does virtual
reality(VR) experiences get to real-life experiences on that aspect?

~~~
chadgeidel
As a data point, I enjoy driving cars on the racetrack. I'm not a professional
- just an enthusiast. Simulations are getting better and better but IMHO still
not as good as "the real thing".

The highest-level sims (with motion controls) are pretty good. I think this is
the best comparison today (~$50K simrig vs $25k car):
[https://youtu.be/hzAIVzAMNg0](https://youtu.be/hzAIVzAMNg0)

There's the added benefit of not worrying about crashing a $500K race car. :-D

[Edit] The simulation upgrade cycle is its own hedonic treadmill though -
gamepad > wheel > full wheel/pedal/seat setup > 3 monitors > VR > motion rig >
???

~~~
petra
That's a great example. But what's missing ? just the feeling you're at real
risk(you say it's a benefit, but it might be an appeal of real driving) ? or
something more ?

And with regards to remembering the experience, reliving it in your
imagination later , do you feel any difference between real/sim ?

~~~
sokoloff
Can't answer for racing sims, but can for airplane/airline sims. I've done
some simulator training (many things are too dangerous to practice in actual
airplanes) and I believe I can recall the circumstances of every single crash
during sim rides. Every single one, even ones from 15 years ago.

I can't recall the details of every single successful sim ride, but neither
can I recall the details from every single "real" flight either. Fortunately,
my fourth box (crashes of real airplanes) is empty.

------
mark_l_watson
I enjoyed the article right up to the end, when it started to sound like an
infomercial for plastic surgery.

I believe that the foundations of happiness are simple: truly love many
people, feel gratitude for life, and enjoy experiences like travel.

~~~
josinalvo
Believe what you will.

This is SCIENCE!

:P

\----

Just joking, but I find the result somewhat intuitive. I've seen first hand
how many people (esp. woman - this my anecdote, don't read too much into it)
see their value through beauty. So I think the research reflects a statistical
reality - even if it does not apply to you.

------
JacobAldridge
Reminds me also of the aphorism "The only things you will regret are the
things you _didn 't_ do" (my emphasis).

Those who decided to have plastic surgery are 'happier' than those who thought
about it but decided not to go ahead. Would be interesting to see if a similar
effect shows up in other large decisions - eg, people who decided not to buy a
house v those who took on the debt; people who decided not to move overseas v
those who took the plunge.

In other words, this may have nothing to do with plastic surgery and may
reflect a deeper underlying source of (un)happiness.

Me personally, I have just one regret in life: that I didn't rob a bank when I
had the chance.

[EDIT TO ADD]

When I was fifteen, I headed in to my local bank to withdraw some cash.
Troublingly, my 'local' branch was close to where I was at boarding school,
some 100 miles from the branch where my account was established - and it
transpired that the signature on my account was still my mother. We'd not
updated it since the account was opened nearly ten years earlier.

Maybe they felt sorry for the poor boarding school kid with no money. I
suspect I hammed that up a little. Because rather than referring me back to
the original branch, the customer service representative headed out the back
to see what she could do. For a LONG time.

About fifteen minutes in to the wait, I leant over her desk and noticed, in
among the paperclips, a 20 cent piece (this is Australia). I looked around -
cameras, probably, but nobody watching.

And so my brain starts ticking - surely I could casually reach out, grab that
coin, and pocket it without being noticed. Surely she wouldn't notice on her
return - if she even knew the 20c was there. It was a risk ... but for the
rest of my life, I'd be able to tell people I robbed a bank!

I probably spent another fifteen minutes pondering the decision. Which was too
long - she returned, and the opportunity was lost.

For what it's worth, I was able to withdraw funds legally. She'd had a great
conversation with a teller at the originating branch, who it turned out knew
my father (everybody does). Based on descriptions of my father, and
comparisons to me, my rep felt confident I was indeed who I said I was and
changed the signature on the account from my mother to myself.

Now THAT'S a great customer service story as well. Or a tale of social
engineering being the weakest link in any security plans.

But for me, nearly twenty years later, it's just the story about the day I
could've robbed a bank ... and didn't.

~~~
J-dawg
I recently had some counselling, and one thing the therapist spent a long time
talking about was _self-agency_. It was something of a revelation for me. I
realised I had essentially been drifting along in life for a long time,
allowing decisions to be made for me and avoiding conflict wherever possible.
He described self-agency as like a muscle that needs to be exercised, even in
small day-to-day ways.

A sense of self-agency seems to be fundamental to good mental health.

>> Me personally, I have just one regret in life: that I didn't rob a bank
when I had the chance.

Oh come on, you can't just leave that hanging there. Hope you can share the
story without incriminating yourself!

EDIT: Great story, and for what it's worth I think you probably made the right
decision. It could easily have ended up being the story of how a bright kid
had his prospects ruined over the theft of 20 cents, because of the bank's "we
always prosecute" policy and an over-zealous legal system.

~~~
JacobAldridge
Cheers. Re: the Self-Agency stuff, I agree completely. I've personally
selected the psychological viewing platform that "I create the whole of my own
reality". [1]

The key word is "whole" \- with this perspective, I am 100% responsible for
everything that happens in my world. I get cut off in traffic - I created
that; a song comes on the radio - I created that song.

Now, intellectually, it's complete BS. My brain will never accept that extreme
level of self-agency. And I don't pretend I do an amazing job of living it all
day every day.

But from a happiness perspective? (Hence referring to it as a 'viewing
platform' \- one perspective on the world.) It's incredible. Fundamentally
liberating because I don't live in a world of blame, excuses, regret, other
people letting me down. Something incredible happens - I take full
responsibility. Something terrible happens - I take full responsibility.

Perhaps a little too 'out there' for most, but I'm happier than I was before
and I believe that self-agency filter I choose for everything is the reason.

[1] See [http://www.openup.com.au](http://www.openup.com.au) And yep - I found
them through my father. Man that guy knows everyone!

~~~
J-dawg
I'm intrigued by your viewing platform. My brain instantly wants to reject it
too. Also, it seems like it could lead to a lot of self-recrimination and
beating yourself up. Why should I feel responsible for someone else cutting me
up in traffic?

I feel like I'm probably misunderstanding something fundamental. Seeing as we
seem to be on the same wavelength I'd like to try harder to understand it.

I have lived in a (self-created) world of blame, excuses and regret.
Especially regret! Anything that helps to move away from that can only be a
good thing.

~~~
overdrivetg
The way I've found to reframe that conversation:

For some reason I chose for that person to cut me off in traffic. What message
am I trying to send to myself? Or maybe by being cut off now, I prevented
myself from being in a fatal accident a few minutes down the road...

The other thing I find liberating about this platform is that you give
yourself permission to _always_ take responsibility for things. Someone is
angry at you for something? No problem, sorry, my fault, I'll try and do
better.

If all they needed was to be heard/acknowledged/an apology, you're all good. I
can't tell you how many situations are smoothed over with this one. And if
they need more, _you 're_ in charge of deciding whether or not to offer it or
to do something else.

Very glad to see this come up on here!

------
lisper
TL;DR: Use your money to buy experiences, not things.

~~~
J-dawg
I've increasingly tried to adopt the Mr. Money Mustache approach to this idea
[0]:

>> Slightly higher on the consumer thrills ladder is the new slogan of, “Don’t
buy things, buy experiences! Travel! Take Cruises! Go to all the happy hours!”

>> It’s a nice idea, and it does work to a certain degree: experiences are
more memorable than things. After all, your favorite trip still glows warmly
in your memory, even while that iPad2 you purchased just a few years ago is
hopelessly outdated now and sitting in a storage bin under the shipping boxes
from your iPad3 and iPad4.

>> In the mainstream media, the analysis ends there. Spending on experiences
is better than spending on stuff, so just spend all your money on experiences
and you’re set.

>> But there’s an even more satisfying thing you can do with money, which is
rarely mentioned: not spending it.

I don't make a lot of money, and I'm a long way from retiring early like MMM.
However I've started to realise that the idea of being completely financially
independent (if not 'retired', then at least able to live without working for
long periods) is even more satisfying than the thought of exotic holidays.

Of course, there's no right answer to this. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, I'm
sure I'll be lying in the road wishing I'd taken that trip to California.

[0] [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/14/how-to-make-
money-...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/14/how-to-make-money-buy-
happiness/)

~~~
jib
I don't think I would enjoy not working. Sure there is 20% crap or so, but 80%
of the time I am doing moderately enjoyable things, or at least neutral
things.

I think that it is certainly true for some people that they would be happier
retired early, and doing volunteer work or so, or working with random things
(I think MMM does carpenting or something? On top of running a blog). I also
think there are plenty of people for whom that is not true.

I like knowing that I COULD quit. Actually quitting work wouldn't make me
happier though, I think. Someone is actually giving me pretty good money for
doing things that I enjoy. That seems better than not getting money for doing
things that I enjoy, or getting low amounts of money from it. Sure, it does
come with those crappy days when I truly dont enjoy what I do, but they are
certainly less common than the days when things are nice.

~~~
cpfohl
You've nailed MMM's actual position. He always talks about his he enjoys doing
stuff that looks like work to outside observers.

~~~
J-dawg
Exactly. He's even written about the angry emails he receives because people
think he's "lying" about being retired and therefore his whole philosophy must
be a sham!

------
nxzero
Generally speaking, use of this model is useful, but it has limits within the
bonds of a given person's reality; both real and constructed. The real loop
whole is the realization that life is uncertain and happiness is a construct
that's self defined, which is to say, if you're happy, you're happy.

------
amelius
Speaking about physical changes to the self, there are probably lots of
loopholes still to be discovered by the neurosciences, perhaps even on a
molecular/chemical level.

------
noobie
I am debating whether I should subscribe for Nautilus or not, do Prime
subscribers get access to contnet regular users do not?

~~~
josinalvo
Nope (as far as I can tell)

[http://nautil.us/primeuser](http://nautil.us/primeuser)

But you get absolution from ad-blocking, and it is only 1-2 bucks a month

(also, curious about people downvoting you... Why are you guys downvoting
parent?)

