
Canadians Adopted Refugee Families for a Year, Then Came ‘Month 13’ - irfansharif
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/25/world/canada/syrian-refugees.html
======
mkaziz
Wow. I am beyond impressed. I am from a Muslim country and I have heard more
than one person say that we may have Islam on our faces, but Westerners have
Islam in their hearts. I can't even imagine the effort the Canadian sponsors
put into resettling these families.

There is a very direct analogy to this in the early history of Islam:
[http://www.questionsonislam.com/article/brotherhood-
establis...](http://www.questionsonislam.com/article/brotherhood-established-
between-migrants-and-ansar) where the Muslims who fled persecution in Mecca
were set up with sponsor families in Medina who helped them adapt and stand on
their feet. To see that same behaviour in our purportedly selfish day and age
warms me to a whole another level.

~~~
Waterluvian
I think it may help that Canada is so young. Nobody can pretend to have a
claim to this land above anyone else (except for the aboriginals, who we
continue to fail.) I'm as Canadian by way of British colonization as it comes
and I grew up hearing stories about how my ancestors immigrated here due to
tough times at home through the 1800s. We are all immigrants.

~~~
adventured
I have to be more than a little bit skeptical with that premise.

There are 600+ million hispanics in North and South America, Canada has
managed to allow a whopping ~400,000 of them in, representing a minuscule 1.2%
of the country. The US is over 20% hispanic and about 16% black; Canada is
2.9% black. It sure looks like someone has a claim to the land.

Canada's merit based immigration system was designed to intentionally keep
poor immigrants out (ie the majority of the population of Latin America).

~~~
mythrwy
Not disagreeing with your overall claim but it's worth pointing out that not
all Hispanics in the US are descendants of immigrants (into the US).

New Mexico for instance still has families with large tracts of land granted
by the Spanish Crown before the US even existed.

~~~
adventured
That's definitely understood. It's a small percentage of the number however.
The US was about 81% white in 1980 and 6.4% hispanic. It's now ~63% white,
with the hispanic percentage having more than tripled (~14 million to ~70
million in raw numbers (not implying all is first gen immigration obviously);
an increase equal to 160% the entire population of Canada). The extreme bulk
of that demographic shift is derived from relatively recent immigration (last
40 years), overwhelmingly from Latin America (the remainder _mostly_ from
Asia), and overwhelmingly relatively poor immigrants that would be mostly
barred from Canada under their merit system (which is why they have so few
hispanics, why they didn't participate in the hispanic population boom the US
has seen, and also why that's not going to change any time soon). I'm pro
immigration, and it's kind of obnoxious to watch Canadians try to stand on a
soapbox while ignoring the facts.

~~~
castle-bravo
Canada does allow a limited number of refugees to enter, but for the most part
our immigration system isn't altruistic. We don't allow people to enter and
stay on the basis of their need to live here, but on our need for their
skills. We have to have an expectation that immigrants will earn a reasonable
income, or they will become a burden on our already strained social services.
If they are unskilled (i.e. poor) or their skills are not in demand in Canada,
then we can't afford to allow them to stay here in poverty.

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xupybd
One thing really stands out here:

"with enough support, poor Muslims from rural Syria could adapt, belong and
eventually prosper and contribute in Canada"

I'm fearful of allowing huge numbers of refuges into another country as the
number of social problems could overwhelm the host country. But absolutely
with enough support this could work. Not talking financial support, but as
this article mentions people taking time to help these people adjust to the
new country. I'm surprised in this modern age it happened. Community seems to
be uncommon in the age of individualism. It's heart warming to see a counter
example.

~~~
zzalpha
_Community seems to be uncommon in the age of individualism._

You've just identified one of the many things that I believe Canadians see as
a value that distinguishes us from our friends to the south.

Whether that's fair or not is something else entirely. But I think it's true
that, generally speaking, Americans see individualism as one of their defining
values, which directly informs a whole host of other derived values (belief in
the power of capitalism, distrust of government, etc).

My experience (for what it's worth) is that Canadians, on average, may value
those things, but I don't believe they are seen as a defining element of the
Canadian identity.

~~~
specialist
Maybe think of the USA as schizophrenic.

I was raised Presbyterian. We've always sponsored refugees, fed the hungry,
did missionary work, etc. Young me just thought that's what Christians do. We
certainly didn't talk or brag about it; that was very gauche.

It wasn't until I was much older that I figured out my congregation was
considered liberal.

There are more liberal Christians than not. But we're not vocal or organized.
So the fruitcakes have way more influence.

\--

[http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/yazoo/unmarked.html](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/yazoo/unmarked.html)

    
    
      "He who shouts the loudest
      Is the one who's in control
      We who never listen
      Are the ones who pay the toll"

~~~
Brendinooo
[http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2016/january/chur...](http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2016/january/church-
leaders-speak-on-refugees.html)

This represents much of the church in the USA that is out of the mainline. I
don't know who exactly you are calling "fruitcakes" or what you mean by that,
but while I've seen some in the rank-and-file be prejudiced, I've also seen
leadership speak very strongly in support of caring for refugees.

~~~
specialist
Christians following the teachings of Jesus are probably not fruitcakes.

------
fudged71
A few families and church groups in my Canadian network have adopted syrian
families. It has been a truly positive experience to hear all the ways people
are offering to help (food, shelter, jobs, transportation, socializing,
childcare). And of course the handouts of delicious syrian food in return. On
a trip to Halifax I bought some chocolates from a syrian business, and they
later ended up on the news for their success.

This is the Canada that I love. And that positivity and love absolutely
trickles down through your network of peers. It's about people helping people.

Does anyone else here have stories?

I hope one day that America starts a similar program to make amends for the
awful effects of Trump's executive orders on immigrants, americans, and
travellers stuck in limbo.

It occurs to me that many Americans are crowdsourcing for healthcare of their
citizens, while Canadians are crowdsourcing to welcome new people to their
communities. I don't mean to offend, but it seems like moving up maslow's
hierarchy to me.

~~~
mpatobin
During the last federal election the refugee crisis was a campaign issue. I
gave up social media for a while because the amount of hatred I was seeing
towards the refugees was making me feel sick.

When I got back on facebook I saw that my small town was planning to start a
sponsorship group. I went to see how I could help and we formed a committee to
bring seven refugee families to our town. I was able to help out by setting up
the website, social media and helping with online donations (the group was
mostly an older crowd).

To date we've raised over $100k, resettled 5 families and positively changed
the lives of everyone involved. All the men are working and half their wives
have jobs too. Some of the children are going to school for the first time in
their lives and they're learning English quickly. Its incredible to see them
playing and laughing after everything they've been through.

I recently moved to another city but I feel so lucky to have been a part of
something that had such an impact. And I miss the coffee one of the women used
to make :-/

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frgtpsswrdlame
Great article. I wonder if something like this could be used in the US to help
bridge the partisan divide on immigration. A deal where we reduce immigration
but ask people to sponsor as some sort of civic duty. I think it might reduce
anti-immigrant sentiment if Americans were in close contact with the struggles
immigrants face. I also think a lot of the Trump voterbase feels that their
culture is being wiped out by immigrants, a sponsor program may give them some
feeling of control back.

~~~
zxcvvcxz
> A deal where we reduce immigration but ask people to sponsor as some sort of
> civic duty.

How about you can have all the immigration you want if you sponsor it?

> I think it might reduce anti-immigrant sentiment if Americans were in close
> contact with the struggles immigrants face.

I think it might reduce the pro-immigrant sentiment if (certain) Americans
were in close contact with the struggles immigrants bring.

~~~
aanm1988
> struggles immigrants bring

I can't even begin to tell you all the struggles me and my immigrant friend
have brought to all you americans. We sure are an awful bunch.

Oh wait sorry. We are white Canadians who just came here for better tech jobs.
Are we still awful or are we some of the "good ones"?

~~~
khedoros1
Depends, doesn't it? Your race and nationality aren't the important pieces of
information. The cultural similarity is convenient, but not crucial.
Similarly, shared language.

Everything else being equal, the country can probably absorb more educated
people with some money than it can uneducated people who are poor.

------
jamesgaston
I'm on the board of a Canadian refugee resettlement group. On Vancouver
Island. We just received notification that our sponsored family, who fled
Mosul, will be arriving this summer. We're well aware of the 13th month issue
but we are working to ensure that they will be on their feet by that time.
It's a risky endeavor, we have been well trained to prepare for as many
eventualities as we can, and I think we are going into it with open eyes. It
just seems the right thing to do and i am pleased Canada allows private
sponsors. Of yeah, my mom was a refugee from communist Chinaand her parents
were refugees from Russia. I figure i gotta pay it forward.

------
breitling
My family has "adopted" a Syrian family and I'm working with them to help them
integrate in Canada (Toronto to be exact). The biggest challenge they face is
the language barrier (although they are well educated). They barely speak any
English. We don't know how long it will take them to be fluent in English, but
they surely will not be employable within 1 year.

I met another newly arrived Syrian through them and that gentleman speaks
perfect English and is an IT guy. He came here with several certifications
(VMWare, PMP, MCSE, MCSD, etc). Settling down will be a relative walk in the
park for him.

If anyone from Toronto is able to guide an IT guy with those certifications,
please let me know.

~~~
mikekchar
As an immigrant to a foreign country where I didn't know the language well
(Japan), I can verify that it will almost certainly take more than a year. It
took me about 3 years to learn how to learn a language and to build up some
fluency. I got married in Japan to a woman who didn't speak English well and
we subsequently went to England for 2 years. Despite being immersed in English
for the entire 2 years (I spoke to her only in English during that period),
and despite studying English very hard every day, she was not able to speak
well enough to hold a job. We've come back to Japan now and 2 years later, the
language has sunk deeply enough that my wife could certainly hold an English
language job (even though she barely spoke English for the 2 years since we
got back).

Language takes time to absorb. My advice (from experience and also from
teaching English as a foreign language for 5 years) is to keep surrounding
them with English language culture. One of the biggest things is to simply
include them in activities with other Canadians. Things like barbeques,
picnics, beach, skiing, sports activities, bar, restaurant, movies, whatever.
Organise events with lots of people and keep introducing them. For the entire
year they will probably find it uncomfortable and tiring. They may not say
much. They may not understand very much of what is going on, but it is a
lifeline.

Also, a few tricks as an immigrant: you need to be super friendly and
outgoing. People's natural reaction to seeing strangers is to be suspicious
and cautious. I go for walks regularly (like every hour or so -- mainly
because I work from home remotely and I need to work out some technical
problem in my head). I make a point of smiling and saying hello to _everyone_
I meet. Now I'm pretty fluent in Japanese, but when I first arrived I had
virtually no ability to have a conversation. So I practiced simple exchanges
about the weather, etc. I would go down the street, find the nearest lonely
retired person (lots of them in rural Japan!) and just say, "It's hot today,
isn't it". Then I'd let them rattle on and I'd smile. Some people didn't care
to talk to me, but quite a few enjoyed the 2-3 minute chat every day. Now it's
part of my life and I know virtually all of my neighbours. I am part of the
community.

So to sum up: Help them find opportunities to meet other people. They will
find themselves completely inadequate to the task, but encourage them.
Encourage them to explore and meet people in the community. Have them use
whatever little language they have with people on the street. Help them become
a part of the community. Language will come over time as long as they keep
studying. The study is important, but it seems to also take time just to sink
in, so make sure they don't get discouraged if they don't see any progress.

~~~
breitling
Thanks for this insight.

Luckily, they have no choice but be surrounded by English speaking people here
in Toronto. The government and the local community is also doing a lot for
them in terms of teaching them English, getting them involved in the
events/activities.

It's a long-term investment, but I've seen other refugees thrive in Toronto
(the locals here would know about the success of the Sri Lankan community).

------
filleokus
Compared to the Swedish model where the government handles the whole process,
I find the Canadian one really interesting. Many of the success stories I've
read in Swedish media is from more rural places, small villages with ≈ 100
inhabitants, where the community have stepped in and tried to help in the ways
they can. And on the other hand, the worst stories are from places where
essentially no "native" swedes live and the circle of unemployment and low
language skills etc is just perpetuated.

The swedish response have mostly been plans to place immigrants in more
affluent neighbourhoods, which of course have caused NIMBY-outcries. I would
be _really_ surprised to see the model mentioned in the article implemented in
Sweden, but it would be interesting.

~~~
komali2
Reminds me of how well the German pows in WWII integrated in rural farming​
communities in the USA, to the extent that they were allowed to.

------
g123g
Keeping all our prejudices aside, it would make logical sense to settle these
refugees in Arabic speaking countries. They won't have to struggle with
language, customs and other infinite issues that come with being transplanted
to a totally alien culture. Being closer to their home countries will also
allow them to visit their relatives still in Syria and also for those
relatives to visit them.

~~~
azernik
The vast majority _are_ ; something like a third of Lebanon's population is
now Syrian refugees, and Turkey (non-Arab, but more similar culture) and
Jordan have also absorbed incredible numbers. What the West is getting is just
the overflow.

~~~
smnrchrds
You are not exaggerating. Lebonon had a population of about 5 millions and has
already absorbed 2.5 million Syrian and Palestinian refugees. It's incredible
and it should put the rest of the world to shame.

------
mjevans
An enlightening read. I would like to offer my own definition for success.

Failure is easy to define, deviation from expected outcomes, suffering, etc.

Success is not the absence of failure. In this case success is a bright future
with many options for the children. Success is integrating the children in to
the culture of the new host country; this does not require forsaking their
heritage, but it may mean becoming more or slightly different than it.

------
mjevans
This method of immigration sounds a lot like what I imagine a 'halfway house'
experience might be like. Only the only thing 'done wrong' was being born in
to a bad situation.

A program that graduates through a series of steps and isn't chronologically
based might be a better guide.

Though there are two sets of complications which also need to be examined.
Counseling / emotional support, and providing empowerment to the adults.

The question of how to humanely handle the divide of family between a country
that has a very low typical standard of living and one which is has both a
higher typical standard of living and a higher /cost of survival/ is a
difficult one; more difficult than I feel can be tackled even in a long
comment. I'm not sure there is an easy answer for it.

An easier answer for empowerment is a good social safety net. Language classes
for foreigners (general education), as well as skill assessment and training
for possible jobs. These should be part of the standard social safety net of
all societies, and lead directly in to targeted job placement (as a
replacement for 'welfare' when a worker is not disabled or otherwise unfit).

------
ColanR
It's great that this worked out. The article reminds me of something else that
was on HN a while ago, and the discussion pointed out that the problem lies,
at least in part, with refugees that _aren 't_ willing to integrate with the
host culture. In this case, it appears they were willing.

------
jameslk
This makes a lot of sense and it should really be more common procedure,
regardless of whether immigrants are refugees or those just trying to start a
new life in a different country.

Every country has its own set of cultural norms and these can be thought of as
a protocol. When individuals don't perform on the same protocol, you get a
tragedy of the commons effect. This is why I think multicultural societies
often breed mistrust[0]. That's not to say that multiculturalism is at fault,
only that individuals joining a new society may not be aware of the protocol
(i.e. individuals can have more than one protocol).

An open society should embrace helping newcomers speak this new protocol, as
it would benefit their society as a whole for all citizens and soon-to-be-
citizens to understand what cultural norms unite that society and move it
forward. Instead of isolating immigrants in ghettos and enclaves, it seems it
would be beneficial to everyone if these new immigrants are sponsored by
others citizens to help them assimilate faster rather than left alienated and
neglected.

I understand this may not be a natural thing for us, since it seems we have a
very tribal instinct. I think teaching integration and embracing/helping
immigrants should be something taught at a very early age so its an accepted
part of society.

0\.
[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007....](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x/abstract;jsessionid=3D8FE906BBB77A4AADC4C5190D705FD6.f04t01)

------
Waterluvian
Maybe we could borrow the Statue of Liberty for a while. Park it it the St
Lawrence.

