
A DIY Cruise Missile (2004) - bgun
http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/
======
ChuckMcM
Fun stuff. There is an apocryphal story of an event at the annual Blackrock
Amateur Rocketry fly off where the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
either confiscated (one version) or denied use of (another variation) a rocket
that had been steerable fins and was designed to use orientation with the Sun
as a means to keep it going straight up. The story goes that once a rocket can
track a heat source and fly based on that track it becomes a "munition" and is
no longer just a rocket.

That said, the information that you can make sophisticated weapons with off
the shelf parts is not new nor necessarily rare. Everything from guns to
armored machine gun platforms, drone bombers, to drone like cruise missiles
seem to have not only been built but fielded in recent battles. It's hard to
imagine that anyone can keep this sort of information "secret" by hitting
individual web sites with cease and desist orders.

~~~
Ritsuko_akagi
a gun is a sophisticated weapon? I though you could make one with a metal
pipe, nail and springs; provided you have access to cartridges. could be wrong
though.

~~~
bronco21016
Not only is a simple gun, as you describe, able to be readily and easily made
but, one can also make a sophisticated gun (AR style) through 3D printing or
even using a relatively inexpensive CNC.

~~~
AWildC182
Guns are weird because to be effective they typically need to be rifled. You
can obviously make a shotgun with some home depot pipe but the pressure
bearing components of a gun can't be 3D printed. Even with 3D metal printing,
you still need to machine the parts to final tolerances and your average
garage setup is not remotely capable of rifling a barrel. Hence, when you hear
about people 3D printing an AR, they're making the lower receiver which is
both a trivially simple part, largely non load bearing, and also due to US
law, the legal "gun" part of the gun. In most other countries the pressure
bearing parts are the controlled items as those are the hardest to
manufacture. In the US you can just buy an upper with the bolt, barrel, and
chamber without a background check and manufacture the controlled lower
however you want to obtain a complete rifle.

I guess this is all a long winded way of saying the 3D printing panic is both
right and wrong but neither side is looking at it in a factual way.

~~~
dilyevsky
Dunno if it qualifies as “sophisticated“ but original AK is designed to be
made from like a piece of sheet metal and others pointed out you can rifle a
barrel in your garage.

~~~
AWildC182
Sheet metal is actually harder to use than milled parts, it's just cheaper for
mass production. The original AK was a milled receiver which they switched to
stamped for subsequent iterations. Stamping metal with high accuracy is very
hard and requires very special tooling.

~~~
dilyevsky
Sorry, no. It is cheaper in every way possible. The lower receiver is
literally metal box with holes in it. You can hammer it out by hand and cut to
size with a dremel. The most challenging parts will be smaller pieces (hammer,
bolt etc) and all the tubing for the gas trap system (that one will actually
require some welding). That’s if you want to build it entirely from Home Depot
materials and tools for some reason (in the US only receiver is legally a
“weapon”).

------
Hasz
Turns out off the shelf GPS modules are good to 50,000m and 500m/s.

[https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/MAX-8_DataSheet_%...](https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/MAX-8_DataSheet_%28UBX-16000093%29.pdf)

Only downside is you're limited to 4g, but that's not the end of the world.

Low update rate, but workaround-able with a IMU. A simple micro,
accelerometer, gyro, and you're in business. Pulse jets can get stupid cheap
-- there's not much more to them than sheet metal.

Frame is easy enough to fabricate -- Fusion360 will even simulate your
aerodynamics for you.

This thing could be built for waaaay less than $5k; Probably buildable for <
$1500, depending on what kind of explosives you load into it -- I have no idea
how much those are. It's also well within the range of a hobbyist. Any sort of
organized group should have no problem, assuming they can round up an
electrical engineer and a machinist.

~~~
bsder
> Any sort of organized group should have no problem, assuming they can round
> up an electrical engineer and a machinist.

Thankfully most competent machinists and electrical engineers can find more
profitable things to build.

I've said repeatedly, our best defense against terrorism is the fact that
terrorists are dumb.

It's why good, old fashioned, people intensive police work is far more
effective than high tech solutions.

~~~
danielvf
I agree that most terrorists are dumb - in fact, I wrote a draft post on how I
think it came to be that way:

[http://braino.org/essays/the_rise_of_the_stupid_terrorist/](http://braino.org/essays/the_rise_of_the_stupid_terrorist/)

~~~
Animats
That's funny. Clean it up and submit it to _Parameters_.

------
blaze33
Coming soon: Cruise Missile As A Service.

Our on-demand global network of 3d printers quickly and reliably fulfills all
your strike requests.

Comprehensive plans with a predictable kiloton/strike billing. Bitcoin
accepted. Our activities are carbon-compensated to preserve the environment.

/s (I hope)

~~~
DarkWiiPlayer
Remember those "twitch plays X" streams? How about "Twitch fires cruise-
missiles" next? Just hook up the twitch chat to your missile API and get that
sweet internet fame.

/s (I really REALLY hope)

~~~
TeMPOraL
This would make for a great Rick&Morty episode, though :).

------
kwhitefoot
Does viewing this link make one a criminal under the UK's new legislation on
viewing material likely to be of help to a terrorist?

Anyway the page has disappeared but can be seen on the Wayback Machine. The
page itself seems not to contain any information that would fall under that
legislation but perhaps some of the links it contains might.

As it is in the Wayback Machine and that is mirrored I wonder if the mere
existence of the mirror would be enough to expose the hosting entity to a risk
under the UK legislation.

~~~
DanBC
> Does viewing this link make one a criminal under the UK's new legislation on
> viewing material likely to be of help to a terrorist?

1) No

2) It's not new law. The law is from 2000. You can diff these two for the new
bits

original:
[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/58/enac...](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/58/enacted)

new:
[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/58](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/58)

3) Stop reading the shitty fucking register, because it's misleading you.

~~~
benj111
"makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person
committing or preparing an act of terrorism"

Instructions on how to build a cruise missile would seem to fall under that.
So do you have a slightly more helpful answer. Whether it is from 2000 or
2019, seems irrelevant.

~~~
RIMR
Find me the instructions. This mostly seems like a website about a project -
not how to recreate it.

~~~
blotter_paper
That seems to be by design:

>Obviously the goal of this website is not to provide terrorists or other
nefarious types with the plans for a working cruise missile but to prove the
point that nations need to be prepared for this type of sophisticated attack
from within their own borders.

>A detailed level of documentation will be provided to those who qualify and
are willing to pay a small subscription for full access to the project diary.

~~~
martin_a
> pay a small subscription for full access to the project diary

Recurring payments do not work well with suicide bombers and alike. You've got
to be careful with this.

~~~
blotter_paper
On the other hand, suicide bombers aren't really the target market for cruise
missiles ;)

~~~
martin_a
If you got a _really_ good sales funnel, you might get them nevertheless...

------
djsumdog
Side note, I always found it funny that one of the symbols for the Royal New
Zealand Air Force is the British symbol (composed of concentric circles) with
a Kiwi in the middle. The symbol for their air force literally has a
flightless bird on it!

~~~
peteretep
That’s beautiful irony, although the concentric circles is far from a British-
only symbol

~~~
samatman
The symbol (and indeed, the air force itself) is directly descended from the
RAF.

I’m not sure what your point was, but GP’s was quite clear.

~~~
peteretep
> The symbol ... is directly descended from the RAF

Aircraft roundels originated with the French Tricolore cockade. Concentric
circles are used in many many country's roundels, and are far from anything
particularly British.

~~~
samatman
I think perhaps your mistake was thinking that the description given was meant
to be exhaustive?

It's as if I said "The American flag (composed of stripes and a blue corner)"
and you were to say "wait, that's not exclusively American"

Yes but, so what?

------
Tepix
Bruce Simpson is awesome. He still has his website. Check out his work on the
pulse jet engine at
[http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/](http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/)

~~~
fest
He is also running a successful YouTube channel:
[https://youtube.com/rcmodelreviews](https://youtube.com/rcmodelreviews)

------
triplesec
This is probably the best book on how the professionals had fun building
rockets back in the day. It's a gread read, and full of useful practical
chemical engineering advice and cautionary tales. You might find PDFs, but you
can also buy it here: [https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-Informal-Propellants-
Univers...](https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-Informal-Propellants-University-
Classics/dp/0813595835)

~~~
richardhod
Some quotes here give insight into the fun and dangers involved.
[https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/663284-ignition-an-
inf...](https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/663284-ignition-an-informal-
history-of-liquid-rocket-propellants)

'“It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that’s the least of the problem. It
is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no
ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things
as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water-
with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary
structural metals-steel, copper, aluminium, etc.-because of the formation of a
thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal,
just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminium keeps it from burning up in
the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no
chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a
metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always
recommended a good pair of running shoes.” '

I think I learned about the book from this blog, or a HN post of it,and it is
both fun and expertly informed.
[http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/thi...](http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride)

------
akimball
Given Pu, a gun type nuke is basically banging two rocks together. Given DU,
Pu is just hitting it with fast neutrons and chemically separating. Given
marginally free hydropower, fast neutrons are a homebrew fusor and a light
switch away. DU and hydro turbines are cheap. A hobbyist with patience can
build a lowtech fission bomb.

Carfentanil can be manufactured by the billions of lethal doses - or scaled to
trillions, with a HELOC.

Virosynthesis isn't a hobbyist endeavor yet but soon will be.

The only reason we aren't all dead is lack of incentive. Of course a
sufficiently bad government can change the incentive structure overnight.

------
bArray
This project is awesome regardless of it being a weapon. Trying to prevent
information from getting out there is ridiculous - if somebody wants to kill
lots of people they will find a way irrespective of actions taken to prevent
it.

The safe guard here is: (1) there is a reasonable level of engineering
competence required, (2) a resource barrier (time and money), (3) building
something like this is quite obvious and (4) most people don't want to hurt
people.

------
atemerev
I quite understand the motivation behind the project — this is absolutely
great. However, open publication of all details can create all sort of
problems, including those he described.

If you want to be a weapons designer (and why not?), your best bet is probably
working for the government. The second best option is to limit information
distribution to other hobbyists / professionals.

------
solidsnack9000
Seems like the project was ultimately not completed:
[http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/diary.shtml](http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/diary.shtml)

------
fmajid
I don't know about cruise missiles but ISIS has modified commercial off-the-
shelf drones to deliver bombs. 3 French Special Forces soldiers were killed in
one such attack during the battle of Mosul.

------
segfaultbuserr
I always wonder, is it really possible for a free civilization with
sufficiently advanced technology to survive and sustain? Due to development of
the contemporary industry, many types of technology, previously only available
to major corporations and governments, can now be purchased off-the-shelf for
personal use.

The very development of personal computing and the Internet is a manifestation
of this. In the early 1960s, computers used to be seen as giant, enormous,
oppressive machines used by faceless corporations and governments to produce
national statistics, design nuclear weapons, or perform top-secret
cryptographic communications. On the other hand, our pioneers of personal
computing have identified, that once the power of computers is available to
everyone, to "we the people", it may become a powerful anti-authoritarian
tool, something we've never seen in the human history. This is the original
meaning behind the famous 1984 advertisement by Apple.

And we've been following the same path of liberties and decentralization down
the road in the next 30 years. Although today, especially since after
2013/2016, computers and the Internet has somewhat restored its "oppressive"
public image, Apple and Google becomes the new IBM, etc, but it's clear that
the essence of the technology is still largely neutral, and we have many
development in the decentralized, pro-freedom world.

The advent of free and open source software has mostly guaranteed that
individuals could has the freedom to use the computer for any purpose. The
discovery the public-key cryptography can protect personal communication
against the most powerful nation-state on Earth, and in principle, allowing
the construction of an anonymous communication system, which is believed by
many as a mean to eliminate the state, partially or fully.

Recently, the proliferation of dirt-cheap electronics potentially allows a
hardware hacker to manufacture semiconductors, electronic equipment, CRISPR-
Cas9 gene editing toolkit, handguns, or missiles in his/her backyard. Most
hackers see this aspect of technology as a force of liberation. If some
people, somehow, eventually managed to create a stateless world in virtual
reality, it would be impressive but not surprising.

The question is, what about malicious actors? Many things a hacker would do
can be classified as illegal activities, but his/her intend is not malicious,
just a different ideology.

But there are truly malicious actors in all civilizations.

The damage that can be done by a malicious actor in a free world, is
proportional to the level of (decentralized) technological development. And
they can be something more harmful than individuals - rogue nation-state,
organized terrorism, etc. WMDs can be created in days, not years.

And you absolutely cannot ban the technology, for example, cryptography,
because it's needed for a free society.

So, the eventual outcome is either,

(A) The civilization is destroyed by a few malicious actors.

(B) The civilization becomes a dictatorship, possibly driven by mass
surveillance, where most individual liberties are abandoned, we either have
1984, The Matrix, or Black Mirror.

(C) Neo-Luddism, where technology is abolished.

Or a combination of (B) and (C), found in many Science Fictions. Is that the
eventually doomsday of a free technological civilization? Do we the
technologists still have hopes? For example...

(D) Due to space colonization, any malicious use of technology can only have
localized effects, allows many free civilizations to survive?

(E) Due to mind-uploading, nobody bothers to mess with the physical world?

Did I miss something?

~~~
greedo
Check out The White Plague by Frank Herbert. And Jerry Pournelle wrote a lot
of novels about the CoDominium, an alliance between the US & USSR to suppress
scientific research due to the instability it could cause.

~~~
segfaultbuserr
On second thought, I suddenly understand why "the evil government" is so
common in science fiction. It's not only about the well-known libertarian-
leaning political stance of those authors, but also an extremely useful
literary device to check and balance the effect of hi-tech to create a dynamic
balance of force in-universe to ensure stability.

In particular, in some stories, the government plays a relatively ambiguous
role - still being the oppressor, but also has an important duty of fighting
terrorism, so that the world won't just collapse so easily because of a few
mad men, and the hackers can keep having their parties.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Your second thought reminds me of Asimov's story, "The Dead Past".

The money quote, rot13-ed for spoilers:

"Abobql xarj nalguvat," fnvq Nenzna ovggreyl, "ohg lbh nyy whfg gbbx vg sbe
tenagrq gung gur tbireazrag jnf fghcvqyl ohernhpengvp, ivpvbhf, glenaavpny,
tvira gb fhccerffvat erfrnepu sbe gur uryy bs vg. Vg arire bppheerq gb nal bs
lbh gung jr jrer gelvat gb cebgrpg znaxvaq nf orfg jr pbhyq."

