
The Xinjiang Procedure - revorad
http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/articles/xinjiang-procedure_610145.html
======
blrgeek
Warning - extremely disturbing read - and I've read a ton of crazy shit.

As interesting as it was - I couldn't actually compel myself to complete
reading this. Perhaps later.

~~~
alf
I couldn't finish reading this either. It was too disturbing.

Before anyone jumps to vilify the China or the Chinese for this, remember that
these kinds of evils have historically been perpetuated by all people in the
past or presently. This story is a chilling reminder: people are still
belligerent, tribal animals, no matter how advanced our culture or technology.

------
enimodas
Apparently the article can't be trusted. Read comments on reddit:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/mw542/the_signal...](http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/mw542/the_signals_may_be_faint_but_they_are_consistent/)

~~~
tptacek
Was going to say the same thing. I didn't look at the masthead until I got to
the part about the evil Islamic human rights organization that cared a lot
about the reporter's Jewish name, whereupon I thought "what the" and, ahh,
it's The Weekly Standard. Of course.

Let's all be clearheaded about what's going on here:

This is an article that says that the Chinese are rounding up protesters and
warehousing them in military prisons until party officials show up with organ
troubles, whereupon doctors are sent in to take blood from the prisoners to
find matches so that those prisoners can be carefully executed (by gunshot) so
that their organs can be harvested while the prisoner is still alive.

This extraordinarily claim is backed up by... an anonymous source.

~~~
malandrew
I spent two weeks traveling in Xinjiang in 2006 and everything I saw suggested
that it was an occupied territory. The most obvious sign is that the
population almost everywhere you traveled were ethnic Uighur, but the police
forces were all ethnically Han Chinese. Prior to visiting Xinjiang, I had
lived 1 year in Beijing and Handan, Hebei for 6 months. The other detail that
caught me off guard is that for 1.5 years, I had not seen a police officer
with a gun. Every police officer in the East of the country had a baton, but
no gun. In Xinjiang, not only were the police of obviously different ethnic
origin, it was not uncommon to see them armed with handguns and occasionally
with an assault rifle.

I don't know anything really about the issue discussed in the article other
than hearsay, but there is no doubt in my mind that Xinjiang is undergoing
"ethnic cleansing" by dilution. AFAIK the same is happening in Tibet.

~~~
tptacek
One way of summarizing what you just wrote is:

"I spent two weeks traveling in Xinjiang in 2006 and saw only ethnic Han
policing the majority Uighur population, often unusually well-armed for
Chinese police. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to report that the
government of China is warehousing Uighur protesters in military prisons until
party officials develop organ failure, whereupon prisoners are screened for
blood/tissue matches and then murdered for their organs, which are removed
while the prisoner is still alive."

Put in that light you can see the problem with this discussion: that Uighurs
(like many other populations in China) are subjected to intense human rights
violations _does not_ imply that a monstrous organ harvesting program is being
run out of Chinese prisons.

~~~
mnemonicsloth
Crimes against humanity get their own category precisely because it is so
difficult for us to imagine they could actually happen.

The genocides in Rwanda, Bosnia, Cambodia, and Nazi Germany have these things
in common: before the fact, a respectable consensus that reports of atrocities
were farfetched; afterwards, shock and dismay that more wasn't done to stop
the killing.

Given this history, aren't we better off keeping a low threshold of suspicion?

~~~
tptacek
What happened in Rwanda was all the more monstrous because of _how much
evidence_ the world community ignored. What evidence is there here?

~~~
malandrew
I've seen lots of photos related to this issue. The validity of all of them is
always called into question, but given the sensitivity of this issue, I
imagine that a lot is being done to maintain reasonable doubt without an
investigation.

Some facts are indisputable. Chinese executes more people per year than any
other country. There is no accountability within the country for how these
executions are carried, nor is there accountability to how they are carried
out to international governing bodies. Compare how executions in the West are
carried out versus China. I'd say there is more than enough evidence to
warrant investigations into how these executions are carried out.

I would like to see someone take all Chinese government statistics on issues
like organ donors per capita, transplants performed per capita, etc. and see
if they are out of line with what is seen in other countries. I wouldn't be
surprised is Benford's Law could be applied to the data.

------
spiffistan
Well, that surely ruined my christmas spirit...

~~~
revorad
Sorry, I did wonder whether to post it or not.

------
yread
flagged. What's next? articles from Falun gong?

~~~
tptacek
I flagged it too, realizing (because you wrote that comment) that there is
absolutely no reason this article belongs on HN --- even had it been well-
sourced, what the fuck did this have to do with HN?

Thanks for pointing that out. I've largely given up on flagging during the
SOPApera.

------
verroq
This article isn't about harvesting organs from people that were going to
die/dead/dying. This article accusing China of genocide against the Uighurs,
which is complete bullshit.

~~~
kachnuv_ocasek
Genocide against the Uighurs is bullshit? Oh, you. Now you'll tell us Tibet
peacefully joined China in 1951, right?

~~~
verroq
Because slavery under Dalai Lama's system was much better right? You seem to
think that it was a semi-utopia under Dalai Lama's rule, but it was still a
backward, primitive system enforced and governed by religion.

~~~
kachnuv_ocasek
Wow, I think I'm going to disengage this conversation now. Václav Havel died
last week. I was afraid of slow disappearance of the values he defended, but I
see the Western pleb has very twisted values already.

~~~
verroq
I'm not saying what China is currently doing in XingJiang is right, but to
deny that overthrowing Dalai Lama resulted in a better standard of life for
Tibet's inhabitants is lunacy.

~~~
cperciva
Trying to improve someone's standard of living by force is almost inevitably
doomed to fail.

Canada tried that with its native population in the 20th century -- take
children away from their backwards and uncivilized parents and raise them
instead in residential schools -- and it was an utter disaster.

~~~
drx
If anyone is as curious as I am:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sch...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system)

