
Coinpunk's Response to Apple for Removal of Blockchain App - kyledrake
http://blog.coinpunk.com/?id=blockchain#appleblockchainresponse
======
nwh
> _Blockchain being pulled from the app store proves what we 've been saying
> all along: Apple isn't banning Bitcoin apps because of "legal grounds"
> (nobody is talking about making Bitcoin illegal), they're banning Bitcoin
> apps to anti-competitively prop up their own payments service._

What payment service? Apple runs no payment service, nor has announced that
they intend to in the future. There can't be "anti-competitor" action if they
don't even have a competing product to begin with.

~~~
Spooky23
iTunes is a type of payment network, and Apple's demand for a 30% share of
revenue generated via apps is key to protecting that competitive advantage.

Bitcoin apps are a challenge to this. Say if Amazon made a wallet app that
happened to let you buy EBooks?

~~~
nknighthb
I guess that's why the PayPal app doesn't exist?

[https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/paypal/id283646709?mt=8](https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/paypal/id283646709?mt=8)

~~~
Spooky23
Can you embed code that allows you to buy books, music or movies via PayPal in
the App Store? No.

The difference between bit coin and the paypal app is that bit coin is cash.
If I embed bit coin code in say, the Kindle App, I can make purchases that
Apple wants a 30% cut of.

~~~
nknighthb
You're not making any sense. I don't think you understand how Bitcoin, IAP, or
iOS works. One app can't just "embed" code in another, Bitcoin is not cash as
we know it, and Apple's app review process would target the app attempting to
use a forbidden IAP mechanism, not another app for moving money around.

------
jxf
I don't understand how the challenge to Apple is supposed to work.

Isn't this equivalent to, say, Wal-Mart deciding not to stock your widgets
anymore because they're going to manufacture a competing widget? It sucks,
sure, but it also seems like it's within their rights to do so.

Is Apple in the clear or are they running afoul of the law somewhere?

~~~
oscargrouch
Its ok for you that they decide, what apps you can or cant have in a device
you bought with your own money?

First they use morality.. and kick out some tech, just because they dont like
them.. than they use all sorts of games to tell who are in and who are out..
but hey! the phone is in your pocket.. you should decide, not them

Its a company or its your priest? They are deciding your life for you... wake
up.

Really, i dont want to have anything to do with apple, im a free spirit and i
know better whats good for me, they just need to get out of our way.. but the
state are also corrupted by the big companies.. they do nothing to stop
that..because you know, politics and power is a expensive game to play.. and
here comes the Big Brother.. and people just love them..

~~~
jxf
I didn't say I was okay with any of it -- in fact, I said the opposite
("[this] sucks"). However, it's also perfectly legal, as far as I can tell.

I guess I don't really get what consumer pressure is going to do,
realistically speaking. The number of Bitcoin users (the users most likely to
participate in this) is very small relative to the number of Apple users.

If you're interested, I'd be willing to make a $100 bet to the charity of the
winner's choice that Apple will not reinstate Coinpunk anytime in the next
three months.

~~~
Shinkei
You've made the point that they are making--Apple doesn't care about their
customer's demands. They won't reinstate it, not because of some possible
wishy-washy legal issue, but because they just don't care enough that some of
their users want it.

~~~
zimpenfish
When you get to Apple scale, worrying about sets of customers with cardinality
less than about 5M is a pointless waste of time.

~~~
Shinkei
Fair enough, but this issue comes up consistently in many different areas and
it has resulted in the the current app store stereotype of fickle, unfair and
even schizophrenic.

~~~
zimpenfish
Yeah, I agree with that but I think that's an opinion that only really holds
amongst technical types. I suspect the vast majority of Apple's hundreds of
millions of customers don't even know this kind of thing is happening. Or
really care.

------
SyneRyder
Other wallet apps have been much more measured in their response to being
removed from the store. Take the Coinjar folks response to Apple removing
their app:

"Before you start DDOSing and trolling, Apple have done nothing wrong in this
situation, they are just managing their own legal liability. We have had
amicable discussions with them and hope they will support us in the future,
when they have a more clear view of Bitcoin's place in their regulatory
landscape." [https://blog.coinjar.com/2014/01/09/coinjar-wallet-to-be-
rem...](https://blog.coinjar.com/2014/01/09/coinjar-wallet-to-be-removed-from-
app-store/)

A petition will be ineffective, especially against Apple. The best way to show
Apple it's a problem is by no longer being a customer & switching to another
device. (I'm a long time Apple fan/user, but I now use a Nexus 5 partly to
have more control over the apps I can install / use.)

~~~
kyledrake
Apple is the -first operating system in the world- that can control what you
can and cannot install on the physical hardware device you own. You literally
have no choice but to jailbreak your own phone, which in itself has
questionable legal grounds. People doing the jailbreaking are being hunted
down like criminals. Being measured is how we got here, now it's time to speak
out.

"The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are
the ones who do." -Apple
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rwsuXHA7RA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rwsuXHA7RA)

~~~
gibybo
Apple isn't an OS, so I assume you're talking about iOS. iOS is pretty far
from the first OS to control what you can install on it. In fact it was one of
the first phone OS's that let you install anything at all.

~~~
megaman821
...unless you count a decade of Palm and Windows Mobile letting you install
apps.

~~~
gibybo
I know, which is why I said one of the first rather than the first. Prior to
iOS though, the vast majority of phones did not allow you to install apps.
Palm and Windows Mobile had a very thin slice of the market.

------
eridius
> they're banning Bitcoin apps to anti-competitively prop up their own
> payments service

I found it very hard to continue reading after this, because Apple _doesn 't
have a payments service_. Not that they really had anything other to say
beyond this laughable claim.

~~~
higherpurpose
Not yet:

[http://business.time.com/2014/01/30/apples-next-big-thing-
co...](http://business.time.com/2014/01/30/apples-next-big-thing-could-be-
allowing-you-to-easily-pay-for-stuff/)

~~~
eridius
_If_ , and I stress that quite heavily, _if_ Apple introduces a payment
service, then we can revisit this topic. But Apple has never been known to
pull apps from their store that compete with a potential future app of theirs.
If Apple wants to take over a market, they'll do it _when they enter that
market_. It runs counter to everything Apple to broadcast moves like this
ahead of time.

------
sangfroid
Wouldn't a better way to make a point be to simply stop buying Apple products?

~~~
IBM
They know that no one really cares about Bitcoin enough to materially affect
them via a boycott, so it's easier to write a blog post about it.

------
msie
I'm a big Apple fan and I am disappointed in them. That they would be afraid
of the legal consequences of Bitcoin apps is hogwash since they've fought
tougher legal battles in the past (They even once pledged to protect
developers against a patent troll too.). They are stifling a segment of
innovation in the app marketplace. For shame Apple.

------
miw-on-mobile
It was my understanding that the App Store version of blochchain.app was
missing all wallet functionality and was just a read only transaction tracker.
I've run the blockchain.info wallet app from Cydia for over a year and still
using it today. Jailbreak while you still can.

------
etchalon
Until they post their actual emails from Apple, I'm taking this with a massive
grain of salt.

