
How the super-rich are digging down in London - bryanrasmussen
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/may/07/pool-basement-wealth-super-rich-digging-down-london
======
briga
I bet it's insanely hard to get approval to build highrise luxury condos in
London, especially when to do so you have to tear down historical buildings--
and practically every building in Central London is historic. This seems like
a sensible, if extravagant solution. I just hope they're considering how
underground buildings might affect the structural stability of what's built on
top.

~~~
chrisseaton
> I bet it's insanely hard to get approval to build highrise luxury condos in
> London

'Condo' isn't really a term we use in London. What's the difference between a
condo and an apartment that you own?

~~~
markkanof
There isn’t any real difference. It is just a difference in wording. Usually
in the US we say apartment to mean a unit in a larger building that you are
renting and condo means the same unit but you own it.

~~~
chrisseaton
We call both things 'flats'. Apartment maybe in corporate marketing material
or some historical names.

~~~
jessriedel
It's not necessary to change to the local lingo when you're talking about
another place. When describing a trip to the US, Brits talking to Brits are
perfectly able to say they rode an American lift.

~~~
chrisseaton
But when you use a specific term like ‘condo’ rather than something generic
like ‘home’ it looks like that specific term is there for a reason.

If you ask if building condos is hard does that mean you think building
apartments instead is easier, for example.

~~~
jessriedel
In addition to the consideration burke mention, there is just the fact that in
American English we generally don't have a term equivalent to flat (i.e.,
condo or apartment). (In this situation, "home" is not appropriate since that
word is much more general.) This sort of use of a special case as an
abbreviation of a more general case is a very common linguistic phenomenon.

~~~
nitrogen
Synecdoche (which I eventually learned is four syllables) is the name of that
linguistic phenomenon.

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extra88
This video from 2015 about the subject is interesting.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLJ0zZQb9x0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLJ0zZQb9x0)

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dijit
London, vs the rest of the UK has always been one or two steps (depending on
Bath vs Sheffield..) above in absolute terms of "class"/wealth for my entire
life, this is just more of the same from that standpoint..

The entropy can only increase and nobody with any modicum of power has any
incentive to fix it.

And it's a constant feedback loop because more investment goes to London and
therefor it attracts more money and because there's more money it attracts
more investment.

From a personal standpoint: I'm an above average earner but my quality of life
in London is substantially worse than anywhere else I'd live (probably
excluding San Francisco), we're coming towards a time where only the wealthy
can live there, and the proles who actually do the hard work (cooking,
cleaning, assistants, low-mid level employees) will need to be shuttled in
from further afield.

The reason I mention that is because I was nearly paying 1.3k/mo for someones
basement room in 2011, that same room is now on the market for twice that, I
can't imagine how anyone can be comfortable paying that much for such a basic
accommodation.

~~~
mayniac
>From a personal standpoint: I'm an above average earner but my quality of
life in London is substantially worse than anywhere else I'd live (probably
excluding San Francisco), we're coming towards a time where only the wealthy
can live there, and the proles who actually do the hard work (cooking,
cleaning, assistants, low-mid level employees) will need to be shuttled in
from further afield.

I absolutely agree. I've personally noticed lots of people getting pushed out
further and further due to rising costs of living. The situation we're in
seems classist to an ever increasing extent. Directors, managers, people in
finance etc all get paid enough to live comfortably, while even skilled
workers in essential sectors are often not paid enough to live in a 1 bedroom
flat within reasonable commuting distance.

For anyone wondering I did some Googling: average salary for a software
developer in London is £43k (£32.6k after tax), and San Francisco is £77k
(£52k after tax), about 60% higher. Cost of living in San Francisco is about
15% higher. This doesn't include healthcare or property taxes so take it with
a grain of salt.

IMO it's not just rent that needs to go down, salaries need to go up. When I
worked in a company that did client facing work they actively tried to hide
our billable rates from us because it was so laughably higher than our actual
salaries (about 20x, not including tax or huge amounts of unpaid overtime). A
lot of people in skilled work are not comfortable with demanding pay rises and
moving jobs if they don't get them, and a lot of un-skilled workers are not in
the position to make such demands. That needs to change, far too much money
gets funnelled not only to c-levels and directors, but out of the country
entirely.

~~~
apexalpha
>For anyone wondering I did some Googling: average salary for a software
developer in London is £43k (£32.6k after tax), and San Francisco is £77k
(£52k after tax), about 60% higher. Cost of living in San Francisco is about
15% higher. This doesn't include healthcare or property taxes so take it with
a grain of salt.

What. 77k? From what I hear on HN here everyone earning less than $150k as a
software engineer in the US is selling themselves short.

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cup-of-tea
I can't help but think of Trantor from Asimov's stories. We're at the stage
where London is like a mini Trantor. It seems inevitable that if we were to
colonise other worlds there would eventually be a Trantor.

~~~
jpatokal
I recommend visiting Tokyo. The view from the observation dock atop the Tokyo
Metropolitan Government Building is essentially just concrete extending in all
directions as far as the eye can see:

[https://cdn.theculturetrip.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/15...](https://cdn.theculturetrip.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/15938453628_d7e5c46e76_k.jpg)

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vowelless
There is a lot of Khaleeji wealth in London and they are not shy about showing
it off (the "super cars" with Saudi plates, for example). They own a _lot of_
property around the city.

~~~
markkanof
Is it legal to drive with the Saudi plates or is it just that no one wants to
stick their neck out to enforce the laws for rich people?

~~~
dogma1138
It’s legal they fly their cars on special jets the summer period around my
flat is irritating as hell and I’m not even getting the brunt of it they other
side of the park around Knightsbridge is a nightmare.

What’s worse is that many of them have diplomatic immunity which means that
when they get involved in an accident there is fuck all you can do about it
including being unable to claim compensation for the damage they cause.

~~~
tytytytytytytyt
Does your own car insurance reimburse you if you have comprehensive coverage?

~~~
dogma1138
It’s not just the car insurance, a former colleague was hit in what
essentially would be a hit and run because the driver might as well have run
off as the outcome was the same.

They have pretty severe health problems now and pretty much lost the use of
one of their arms.

Not only was the driver not punished but it was also impossible to claim
further compensation form their insurer or from them directly.

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lifeisstillgood
90 Billion a year of dirty laundered money goes through the UK - mostly into
the (London) property market - and stopping that flow is likely to cause a
housing collapse

I really recommend Ed Milibands podcast "reasons to be cheerful" \- the above
fun fact came from the episode on money laundering. It is a hell of a surprise
to find out how easily we could stop the dirty money - and how close we came.
Another thing brexit scupperdd

~~~
beebmam
It's the same in the west coast of the US. An absurd amount of money
laundering is going on and its exacerbating the housing crisis here.

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ars
This is the best part:

[https://www.newstatesman.com/business/2014/06/bizarre-
secret...](https://www.newstatesman.com/business/2014/06/bizarre-secret-
london-s-buried-diggers)

Previous:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7862870](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7862870)

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joshvm
Clive James, in 2009, recorded an amusing piece about this on BBC Point of
View. Basements in London are nothing new, and this was before the boroughs
started cracking down.

[https://soundcloud.com/pointofview-clivejames/london-
undergr...](https://soundcloud.com/pointofview-clivejames/london-underground)

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clintcparker
Also reminds me of this: [http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/01/house-
of-secret...](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/01/house-of-secrets)

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kokey
The photo at the top of the article is bizarre, especially with the caption of
the property having a dance floor and a DJ while in the photo there is also a
pram.

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collyw
An artificial beach sounds like far more money than sense if it underground.

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smithmayowa
How does someone become super rich any way

