
Philips LED bulb Tear-down - powertower
http://www.edn.com/blog/PowerSource/40512-Remote_Phosphors_Philips_LED_bulb_Tear_down_Part_II.php
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jim_h
The LED technology used in that bulb seems a little dated. I believe it's
using Phillips' Luxeon Rebel LEDs.

Looking at the pictures, there's 3 sections and each section has 6 Rebel LEDs.
Total of 18 LEDs. All for output of 800 lumens.

A recent LED flashlight can produce 800 lumens with just 1 (CREE XM-L) LED.
For example, <http://www.fenixlight.com/viewproduct.asp?id=141> If you want a
warmer white tint, it's a little less lumens, but you can always use 2 LEDs..

LEDs have come a long way in the last couple of years. It's just unfortunate
that light bulb manufacturers do not make and sell new models as quickly as
flashlight companies. There seems to be a new model every week with the latest
LED for crazy light output.

Another example, <http://www.fenixlight.com/viewproduct.asp?id=149> It does
over 2,000 lumens with 3 LEDs!! This is just one company. There are many more
that also have crazy flashlights.

If you want to learn more about LEDs or flashlights, head over to
<http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forum.php>

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weeny
Philips updates the technology in the Rebel LEDs several times a year. In
fact, they have on several occasions demonstrated record-breaking output in
this form factor up until earlier this year.

The reason that flashlights are updated so much more frequently than light
bulbs is that flashlights don't require any consumer safety ratings. Where a
company can release a battery-powered flashlight with no safety testing, a
light bulb running on line voltage has to be brought through a rigorous UL,
CSA and FCC standards compliance testing.

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jim_h
Yes, you are correct. I overlooked that important fact. It'd still be nice if
they moved faster.

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maukdaddy
Does the use of connectors imply that users could replace failed LED boards
instead of trashing the entire bulb? Or even upgrading to more efficient LED
boards?

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ChuckMcM
It means its possible, it doesn't mean that the owner could do it. It would be
good PR on phillip's part to include a postage paid mailing label that would
let you recycle dead bulbs. They could recover most of it and save both
e-waste and the energy cost of casting a new heatsink.

~~~
ars
The energy cost of individually mailing a heavy bulb is greater than the
energy cost of casting a heatsink.

Centralized recycling might work, but not a postage paid mailer. Plus who is
going to successfully store a mailer for 10 years while waiting for the bulb
to burn out.

And in 10 years they won't want this bulb back, there won't be anything
reusable in it. Just recycle it for the metal.

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gregable
Storing the mailer isn't a big problem. When I buy a new bulb, I'll get a new
mailer. I toss the first round. I don't disagree with you on the energy cost
though.

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Cushman
I wonder what the actual color temperature of the "blue" LEDs is— I've been
hoping for a while that the rise of LED lamps would finally mean shifting to
more natural colors.

It's kind of absurd to me that in this day and age we're still trying to make
our artificial light look like another kind of artificial light rather than
sunlight.

(For reference, daytime sunlight is around 5500k— these bulbs are marketed as
2700k, which is about the color of sunset, sunrise, or a large fire.)

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phaker
> For reference, daytime sunlight is around 5500k— these bulbs are marketed as
> 2700k, which is about the color of sunset, sunrise, or a large fire.

Cold light will mess up your sleep patterns:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Light_and_the_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Light_and_the_biological_clock)

(unfortunately I can't find a better source)

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dpark
There's a big difference between cold light a neutral light. Personally I hate
"warm" bulbs. I use the "natural" bulbs which to me appear not cool but
neutral. I've read that asian nations also tend to use much cooler bulbs and
dislike the warm ones, but I can't find the reference now.

Also, according to your Wikipedia article "Lighting levels that affect the
circadian rhythm in humans are higher than the levels usually used in
artificial lighting in homes".

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deweller
I would love to see something like this on the new Switch bulb coming out
(supposedly) this fall. More info on the Switch bulb:
<http://www.slate.com/id/2298444/pagenum/all>

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euroclydon
Anyone know what this comment means:

 _Incandescent technology is still superior to any other lighting tech,
especially solid state. When one factors in laser sintering of incandescent
filaments that increases their efficacy to 3-5 times even LED's, incandescents
absolutely rule when considering their performance and cost of
production/recycling/logistics/..ect... I love bandgap technology, but it will
be hard pressed to beat Edison's brilliance (it hasn't been done yet, despite
articles such as this one)._

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nate_meurer
It means nothing. LED lighting is still an infant technology. Any shortcomings
are a moving target given how fast the technology is progressing.

The reference to filament sintering is incorrect. First, it's not sintering,
it's a process applied to a filament after is has been drawn. Second, the
efficiency gain is around double, which still can't even come close to LEDs.
Look here for a bit more:

<http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3385>

The reference to "production/recycling/logistics" is also wrong if it refers
to the EROI of LED lighting, which has already bettered that of incandescent
lighting:

<http://www.osram-os.com/life-cycle-assessment>

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ck2
As previously seen on HN <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2845306>

Note this is a $40 bulb. And it doesn't come with a 20 year warranty, the
circuit could fail in a few years and then you've got one expensive lump.

~~~
angusgr
This. In particular, I'm concerned by the little switchmode power supply on a
non-user-servicable board potted into the depths of the bulb.

If that 5c capacitor dies, a $40 bulb gets scrapped even if everything else is
still good. Hopefully Phillips have designed around that, but 20 years is a
long time and they have little incentive to do so.

I suppose a proper, universal, standard for low-voltage DC in houses (ala 12v
Halogen downlighting only universal, something like PoE) is probably too much
to hope for.

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dhughes
Another thing to consider is other than LED being so much more complex
compared to a glass bulb with a tungsten wire in a vacuum is why a bulb?

We have been limited to bulbs why not lighting in sheet form or around the
edges of rooms rather than a point source in the middle of the ceiling?

I know manufactures have to be backwards compatible but in the future it would
be nice to have the option of a different method to light an area.

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ErikRogneby
Hell of a lot of components for a light bulb. The joys of achieving feature
parity with the (150+ year old) incumbent product/technology.

~~~
owenmarshall
I'd be interested in seeing what lightbulbs looked like if we designed them
from scratch today -- without, as you note, 150+ years of expectations and
needs.

What could they do that the traditional old incandescent can't? What would
they look like?

On a more general note, does this "design in a vacuum" have any valid
applications? Can this lead to ideas that we can use today, or is it just pie
in the sky thinking?

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bryanlarsen
Perhaps even more interesting would be "what would they look like if
unconstrained by technology"? A lot of science fiction proposes the uniformly
glowing ceiling. This would provide a very consistent & uniform light without
the eye strain caused when you look directly at a point source.

Another common idiom in science fiction is to replace your windows with giant
transparent television sets, functioning simultaneously as window, television,
telephone, artwork and light bulb.

~~~
Joeri
Transparent OLED has the potential to produce glowing wall panels, and
transparent screens.

<http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/10/19> [http://www.geeky-
gadgets.com/samsung-transparent-oled-displa...](http://www.geeky-
gadgets.com/samsung-transparent-oled-display-notebook-07-01-2010/)

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probablyrobots
ianaee, but the board from the led bulb looks just as hand soldered as the
board from the cfl. I don't think the following argument holds up very well.

"I was quite impressed by the use of connectors in this bulb rather than
relying on low-cost-labor for hand-soldering which has been used in the
manufacturing of CFLs."

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bryanlarsen
Daniel_Newby provides an alternative explanation: that it's wave soldered.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2860140>

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juiceandjuice
Does anyone know where you can get the phosphor plastic they use in these?

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weeny
It is a plastic resin that has been blended to a precise dosage with YAG
phosphor. You can buy YAG phosphor easily from wholesalers, for example,
phosphortech, a Georgia company, sells a variety of colors of phosphor.
However, the trick is to precisely and uniformly blend it in with the plastic
resin - the reason that it takes so much time and development money to make a
light bulb like this.

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juiceandjuice
Nice, who do you work for?

