
Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea - YeGoblynQueenne
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/jacques-cousteaus-grandson-wants-to-build-international-space-station-of-the-sea-180975635/
======
krick
Not sure how much of a news story it is. I also want to build the ISS of the
sea, I always did. Now, I don't have a famous granddad with whom I share my
last name, but even if I did it's not like it's enough to build ISS of the
sea.

The article is written in a very dreamy tone and contains very little
substantial information. It firmly assures that "Proteus will be" such and
such, as if they are making the finishing touches already, yet "Proteus is
still in the concept phase". "Fabien is raising $135 million" (which, TBH,
seems quite a conservative estimate for this project on the one hand, and on
the other is a pretty huge investment for something that doesn't have any ROI
projections attached), but there's no discussion about what else except for
his surname this Fabien guy actually has to have any chances to succeed.

So, yeah, I would prefer if journalist learned to provide something more
factual and informative in their stories, instead of telling me how cool deep-
sea exploration is. I know it's cool, alright? I don't know if a project like
that can actually happen in the observable future.

~~~
sradman
> I would prefer if journalist learned to provide something more factual and
> informative in their stories

It is deeper than that (no pun intended); many journalists seem to be lacking
the critical thinking skills required to judge whether a story passes a basic
sniff test when it comes to science and technology.

The Proteus project is not the ISS of the Sea, it is a vanity project.
Clickbait from cnet is par for the course but I guess I expect more from a
publication with "Smithsonian" on the masthead.

The previous HN thread _Proteus: Underwater research lab worthy of a Bond
villain_ [1] points out that this is not just a questionable idea but a really
bad one.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23985772](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23985772)

~~~
hinkley
I wonder if journalists are no longer getting the same on-the-job training
they got with print magazines? Maybe the cycles are too quick, it's too easy
to convince yourself that you can fix a mistake post-publication, and you
don't interact with as many experienced coworkers throughout the process.

Are we the baddies?

~~~
reaperducer
_I wonder if journalists are no longer getting the same on-the-job training
they got with print magazines?_

They don't, but the roots run deeper than that.

College journalism departments used to stand on their own, or be part of a
Communications department. Now, a lot of them are part of marketing
departments because that's where the donor money is.

For example, one of the "Big J" journalism schools used to be Medill at
Northwestern University. A decade or so ago it changed to become the "Medill
School of Journalism, Media, Integrated Marketing Communications."

I used to mentor interns from that school. The first few years after the
switch we started getting students who didn't know the first thing about
journalism. They were being taught how to edit videos for YouTube, not how to
find out how a congressman voted on a particular topic. We had students about
to graduate who didn't know important recent historical figures. Couldn't tell
you what party any president belonged to earlier the current one, and his
predecessor.

It goes along with a long-running theme on HN: That universities are no longer
about education. They're only in it for the big money now.

------
lisper
Just in case anyone here is considering donating to this project, do your due
diligence. There is quite a bit of behind-the-scenes drama in the Cousteau
family, which is why both Jacques's son, Jean-Michelle, and his grandson,
Fabien, each have their own 501(c)(3) separate from the Cousteau society. JM
has [http://www.oceanfutures.org/](http://www.oceanfutures.org/) and Fabien
has [https://www.fabiencousteauolc.org/](https://www.fabiencousteauolc.org/).
According to JM, he broke away because the Cousteau society had been taken
over and corrupted by one of Jacques's ex-wives. I never verified this, but it
is consistent with Charity Navigator's one-star rating [1]. We used to be
major supporters of Ocean Futures, but they too seem to have become
dysfunctional. Neither JM's nor Fabien's organization even merits a rating on
CN. It's kinda sad actually.

[1]
[https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summar...](https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3583)

------
noetic_techy
Can I ask the obvious question? What good is a stationary lab in one spot in
the ocean? Didn't we do plenty of that in the 70's?

If you really want something interesting, build a sub that can park itself in
stationary locations or some sort of crawler lab with legs that do minimal
impact on the floor and have the ability to reach the deepest parts such as
the Mariana Trench. The ocean is huge and parking in one spot seems
ridiculous.

~~~
cbsks
Some science experiments require visiting the same patch of ocean repeatedly.
Having access from an underwater lab means that scientists can spend more time
doing science and less time traveling to/from the site and decompressing.

My uncle is a marine biologist and spent time living in an underwater lab in
Florida. Aside from all the diving he was able to do, he said it smelled like
a high school locker room and everything was damp inside.

~~~
JshWright
On the plus side, you don't have to worry about your soda fizzing over...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJiUWBiM8HE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJiUWBiM8HE)

~~~
ceejayoz
A YouTube video that jumps right in to the main point and doesn't have any
"don't forget to subscribe!" stuff in it is kinda jarring in 2020.

~~~
falseprofit
way to paraphrase the top comment on the video

~~~
ceejayoz
I have YouTube comments disabled. Everyone should.

------
9nGQluzmnq3M
I suspect somebody was inspired by the Octonauts' Octopod, down to the "liquid
door" hatch inside:

[https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/octopod/images/f/fd/Octo...](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/octopod/images/f/fd/Octopod.jpg)

~~~
iso1210
I never really liked Octonauts. I was gutted when the kids were old enough
that they didn't want to watch the latest Fireman Sam movie on the other hand
- especially after I'd spent 2 years waiting for it :(

They grow up so fast.

~~~
booleangate
Fireman Sam is trash. Long live Sarah and Duck! ;)

~~~
notduncansmith
Never thought I’d be giving shouts out to Sarah and Duck on HN but here we
are. That show has a rare combination of real chill and real personality. As
my son is aging out of Sarah and Duck, I’m hoping to find similar content to
offer him that will be stimulating but not spastic like so many shows. I would
also love to find more stuff like Beat Bugs and Motown Magic, which are a bit
more typical but still wholesome.

------
Tepix
There sure is a lot to discover below the surface of our oceans.

I recently watched "Diving Deep"
[https://de.oceanfilmtour.com/en/movies/volume-7/diving-
deep/](https://de.oceanfilmtour.com/en/movies/volume-7/diving-deep/) a
documentary (part of the Ocean Film Tour 2020) about Mike deGruy, an ocean
cinematographer.

deGruy showed what the chemicals that were used to disperse the oil during the
Deepwater Horizon spill did to the life on the ocean floor. The chemicals
removed the oil from the surface of the ocean (where it was visible), but made
a mess below the surface. A wakeup call for sure.

He also appears to have been a really nice, fun guy.

~~~
techwarrior
Completely support this. Grew up loving his father's programs and I think we
should invest more in saving our planet than going to Mars.

~~~
solarengineer
Those who understand rocket engineering can’t just be asked to switch to
something else, though. In any case, there has been a lot of evidence that
humans’ foray into space has led to a lot of innovation of technologies that
we’ve used here on Earth.

We also should have a plan B as a species.

I’m of the camp that believes we should go to space and also focused on saving
the Earth.

------
victornomad
When I was a kid I used to watch a TV series called SeaQuest. Pretty much the
same idea, isnt it? :)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQNXOscKEhY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQNXOscKEhY)

~~~
dghughes
Same here and it was fairly complex in its geopolitical views. It wasn't just
fish and bikinis.

------
The_rationalist
I _strongly_ recommend the YouTube channel deep sea oddities:

[https://youtu.be/pDW4IYVlbbw](https://youtu.be/pDW4IYVlbbw)

It made me realize that alien like life is more fascinating on earth than it
will ever be on my lifetime lurking at the space.

------
tomphoolery
Please call it Sealab 2021.

~~~
robotnikman
Or Rapture

------
Cantbekhan
Discussed 26 days ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23985772](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23985772)

------
littlecranky67
Anyone else immediately thinking about Subnautica while looking at the
article's teaser image? :)

~~~
Reason077
I thought "Sealab 2021"!

~~~
dllthomas
Pod 6 is jerks!

------
sandworm101
So they want to create a multi-story structure anchored at "60 feet"? Is that
60 to the bottom? 60 feet to the top of the structure? 60 feet to the
moonpool? That thing looks 80 feet tall.

Fyi, moonpools are cool. They create all sorts of interesting practical
physics problems. Take the one in the artist rendering. Say it is at 60 feet.
What is the pressure depth of the rooms on the second floor, say 15 feet above
the moon pool? What about the rooms below? If I poke a hole in a room _below_
the moonpool room, does water come in or air leak out?

By having a moonpool, the entire structure has to be kept at the
pressure/depth of the water at the moonpool. So rooms above are at higher
pressure than the water immediately outside, while rooms below are at lower
pressure. The simple act of having that open pool creates very interesting
structural design issues.

~~~
keithwhor
Aren't all of these problems solved by just having the moonpool room
airlocked?

~~~
sandworm101
Airlocks are actually rather dangerous. Things can go wrong very quickly. An
accidental rapid/unplanned decompression, even only across a few feet of
pressure, can do real damage. Then there are the issues building the doors,
which hold enough force that should they pop open they could kill. The biggest
advantage of the moonpool approach is having the entire complex at the same
pressure, with the pool acting as a passive safety valve against wild pressure
fluctuations.

~~~
waste_monk
Yeah, pressure differentials are no joke. Look at the Byford Dolhin incident
[1]:

> Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process
> of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the crescent-shaped
> opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior
> trunk door. With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his
> thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in expulsion of all of the internal
> organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small
> intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance,
> one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior
> pressure door.

> The blood of the three divers left intact inside the chambers likely boiled
> instantly, stopping their circulation

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin)

------
vaidhy
There are a lot of reasons for having a stationary lab under sea - I have seen
a lot of experiments for acceleration of coral growth, bringing corals back to
life etc that need long term study and sustained help. However, I am a bit
confused as to why this project needs an expensive building as opposed to
something like a submarine shell with living quarters (and a moon pool, of
course).

~~~
dheera
Better quality of life? I've seen those submarine tours on Youtube and they
look cool initially but I could imagine it could get old pretty quickly eating
freeze-dried rations and living in such a small space with no homey human
elements to its design. Even the Antarctic bases have mini-libraries, and ping
pong tables and whatnot that look like they would be much nicer to spend an
extended period of time.

Humans weren't meant to be cooped up in a vessel. In space we don't really
have the tech to build something bigger but I imagine in the ocean we could do
it if we wanted to.

------
executive
We already have an ISS of the Sea. Many believe this 'International Swimming
Station' is the real ISS.

>
> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_Buoyancy_Laboratory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_Buoyancy_Laboratory)

~~~
jimbob21
That seems to be just a pool to mimic zero gravity, which I would not equate
to the ISS in ocean form at all

------
tommilukkarinen
If I build underwater real-estate, there are no laws governing it? There
probably aren't laws anywhere in the world about it? Probably I can still be
harassed if it's in national waters. But if it's in international waters?
Nuclear reactor test site?

~~~
RugnirViking
There are plenty of laws (in this case, more like 'treaties') regarding
international waters and use thereof. You can't do whatever you like, you
certainly can't avoid all laws there. Usually you will have to flag your
structure as being part of a nation and then follow their laws while onboard.

------
ourcat
Curious lack of any mention of Jacques Cousteau's first son (and father of
Fabien) Jean-Michel, who I met about a decade ago while doing some work for
his Ocean Futures Society.

------
xwdv
If they do it I I hope they use low-iron glass to mitigate that greenish tint
you get from looking through normal shitty glass.

------
anotheryou
\- why just 60 feet / 20m below the surface?

\- what will be possible that now is not?

~~~
imglorp
For extended stays, physiology demands of breathing compressed gasses get
complicated. At that depth, the effects are minimized.

------
okareaman
I was underwater for 2 months on a nuclear submarine. Does that count?

------
papito
Somewhat played a bit too much of Subnautica.

------
spiritplumber
So, some kind of sea lab, in 2021?

(Pod six are jerks)

------
fiftyacorn
It will be like the octonauts

------
shmerl
Reminds me of Aquanox :)

------
nirav72
I'm really surprised something like this hasn't been done yet.

------
juststeve
We’re in a pandemic, seriously, why not?

~~~
tiku
At least it's already isolated..

------
fortran77
Does he have a name?

(I was raked over the coals a few months ago for describing a person as "Jeff
Bezo's ex-wife. I want to make sure we hold all these cases to the same rule.)

------
bambax
Jacques Cousteau was a horrible person, both personally (bigot, anti-Semite,
pathological liar) and professionally. It's inexplicable that he passes for a
defender of nature when in reality he "explored" things by blowing them up
with explosives and destroyed unique sites, etc.

The grandson is a different person of course; but he invokes his grandfather's
name as a reference and proof of competence. Don't fall for it.

~~~
gregoriol
Do you have sources for such accusations?

~~~
bambax
Plenty of sources (in French). For example:

Anti-Semitism: [https://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1999/06/18/la-
plonge...](https://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1999/06/18/la-plongee-
antisemite-du-commandant-jacques-yves-cousteau_3551090_1819218.html)

Cousteau's first wife Simone was independently wealthy and financed his boat
(Calypso) and expeditions. She lived on board most of the time (yet never
appears on camera). But he had another secret family (with kids) on the shore
with a former flight attendant, since the late 70s. Simone only learned about
it in 1990. Letters were published where she asks a friend in disbelief if
this can be true. She then died within a few months. Can't find the letters
right now but I did read them then.

Critique of "Le Monde du silence": [https://www.rtl.fr/culture/medias-
people/video-pourquoi-le-m...](https://www.rtl.fr/culture/medias-people/video-
pourquoi-le-monde-du-silence-de-cousteau-est-il-naivement-
degueulasse-7779029379)

In that movie from 1956 which won the Cannes Film Festival Palme d'Or, the
team blows a whole coral reef with dynamite in order to "count fish living in
it". They also catch live sharks on board and kill them with shovels "because
seamen don't like sharks".

You can watch the documentary and see for yourself.

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Regarding bigotry and antisemitism, there are, of course, caveats in the
article you link:

 _Interrogé par Le Monde, Erik Orsenna confie : « C 'est évidemment une lettre
ignoble. Mais j'ai peur que si l'on ouvre toute la correspondance des Français
de l'époque, et si l'on écoute l'enregistrement de leurs conversations, on
découvrirait beaucoup d'autre antisémitisme de cette sorte. Autrement, Pétain
n'aurait pu rencontrer en France un tel accord, et des horreurs comme les
rafles de juillet 42, organisées par la police française, n'auraient pas pu se
produire. A la différence de son frère, Pierre-Antoine, dirigeant de Je suis
partout, ce que je dis dans mon discours, et à ma connaissance, Cousteau n'a
jamais émis ce genre d'ignominie en public ni ne s'est engagé dans aucune
action antisémite. »_

Which is not to excuse anything, but it seems to me the majority of French
society (indeed, European society) at the time held such views. Why single out
Cousteau? And why do it in an article about a project undertaken by his
_grandson_ , who is not himself, I believe, accused of holding any of those
biggotted views? Kin punishment is no less a barbaric practice than
antisemitism (and islamophobia, as per the article above).

As henearkr says below, the rest of your comment is about Cousteau's personal
life, which is neither here nor there. This is not the Daily Mail.

~~~
bambax
Cousteau falsely claimed to have been a member of the Résistance when he was
in fact protected by the occupying German army. His first film received a
positive critique in his brother's newspaper Je suis partout in 1943, which
launched his entire career. He later said the film only came out in 1946.

The part about his personal life is to further substantiate the "liar" part.
It's not just that he had a "mistress"; he had another family and hid it from
his wife, whom he didn't divorce because he needed her money. She died of
sorrow when she eventually found out. I think it tells something about his
character.

I'm getting downvoted heavily for all these comments, but I persist in
thinking we should be more careful about the "heroes" we choose. This man is
no hero. He's horrible.

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
What "heroes"? Why do we care about Jacques-Yves Cousteau's character? We are
commenting on an article about a project by Cousteau's grandson. Why does
Jacques-Yves Cousteau's lying or antisemitism have anything to do with Fabien
Cousteau's project?

In any case, why do we need to judge anyone's character in a HN thread? What
is this, inquisition by internet forum? That is just the worse, lowest form of
internet activity and I'm really sorry to see it on HN. This is at the level
of the darkest recesses of 4chan.

~~~
bambax
> _We are commenting on an article about a project by Cousteau 's grandson._

Exactly. And we wouldn't be talking about it were it not for the affiliation.

> _This is at the level of the darkest recesses of 4chan._

Right. Does this count as Godwin's law?

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
>> Exactly. And we wouldn't be talking about it were it not for the
affiliation.

I posted the article and I didn't post it because Fabien is Jaqcues-Yve's
grandson, but because I find the idea of underwater habitats interesting.
You're the one who is focused on the "affiliation". And for no good reason
other than to throw some dirt around, from what I can tell.

------
rshnotsecure
Jacques Cousteau, and really many prominent oceanographers / explorers
(Ballard, who discovered the Titanic, comes to mind) have a background in
espionage. Getting a large international joint effort off the ground coming
from that field...can be difficult.

Recently Alexandra Cousteau, the grand-daughter of Jacques, had her name
surface in regards to Epstein and whatever operation he was running.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
I know these sound like conspiracy theories, but Ballard _was_ actually on a
secret US Navy mission to find some subs when he accidentally stumbled on the
Titanic:

[https://www.wearethemighty.com/titanic-discovered-top-
secret...](https://www.wearethemighty.com/titanic-discovered-top-secret-
mission?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1)

And the Glomar Explorer was an actual CIA operation:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer)

...but dragging Epstein into this? Really?

