
Why Are Marriage Rates Down? Study Blames Lack of ‘Economically-Attractive’ Men - spking
https://www.studyfinds.org/why-are-marriage-rates-down-study-blames-lack-of-economically-attractive-men/
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bscphil
From the Wiley press release [1], not the blogspam:

> “Most American women hope to marry but current shortages of marriageable
> men—men with a stable job and a good income—make this increasingly
> difficult, especially in the current gig economy of unstable low-paying
> service jobs,” said lead author Daniel T. Lichter, PhD, of Cornell
> University. “Marriage is still based on love, but it also is fundamentally
> an economic transaction. Many young men today have little to bring to the
> marriage bargain, especially as young women’s educational levels on average
> now exceed their male suitors.”

I don't know, that seems like such an incredibly 1950s take to me. Is that
really the way most people view marriage? Sure, people who are seeing success
in one area of their lives (educational, professional) are more likely to see
success in other areas, but I don't think most people (or most women) view
marriage as a "fundamentally economic transaction". That reads kind of like
incel flame-bait to be honest.

[1] [https://newsroom.wiley.com/press-release/journal-marriage-
an...](https://newsroom.wiley.com/press-release/journal-marriage-and-
family/do-unmarried-women-face-shortages-partners-us-marriage-mar)

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Pfhreak
> view marriage as a "fundamentally economic transaction".

You dropped the critical word 'also'. Marriage is 'also a fundamentally
economic transaction'. At some level, you should understand what your future
looks like with this person, how much will you make, will that make both of
you happy, how will you handle a divorce, etc. What happens if one of you gets
sick and the other has to care for you?

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hkmurakami
This echoes what's been going on in Japan since the 90's.

What we hear about men in China needing to own an apartment in order to be a
well qualified potential partner seems to be an amped up version of this.

And most importantly

"These synthetic husbands were also 30% more likely to be employed than real
single men and 19% more likely to have a college degree"

I really enjoyed the nomenclature of "synthetic husbands"

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p0nies
Are marriage rates up in any Western country?

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tenebrisalietum
Poor people have existed in every time and era, yet we don't hear of low
marriage rates in the 1800s, for example. It can't be just about the money.

I personally think it's good that marriage isn't the only choice for women, or
men for that matter. People like their independence and without the social
pressure to marry just for the sake it, it ultimately results in happier
people that don't have to do things just because of some vague, background
expectation of society - which is ultimately composed of more people that
don't care about you than do.

Unless you are poor, but if you are poor you are likely unhappy whether you
are married or not.

Could universal basic income save marriage?

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twblalock
> Poor people have existed in every time and era, yet we don't hear of low
> marriage rates in the 1800s, for example. It can't be just about the money.

It is now socially acceptable, and financially feasible, for women to avoid
marrying. That was certainly not the case in the 1800s. It was barely the case
in the 1950s.

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conductr
I feel like an increasing rate/normalization of hookups and arrangements
(sugar) makes it perfectly possible for men to get the transactional/on demand
aspects they generally seek and ladies get the economic aspect they often
seek.

I (still happily) married right before Tinder came around. I really think if I
had access before being in LTR with my wife I’d go this route and not have
married. Hookups and companionship when I want. None of the stress, pressure,
expectations, and drama of being a husband.

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hellisothers
This misses the actual upsides of marriage, you don’t get married for the easy
casual sex (well I mean some people probably do at first). You get married for
the commitment. You can rely on the other, till death do you part, to support
you, pooling your resources etc. and your families an social network sees the
commitment as a sign of maturity and a signal to invest in your future as
well.

To look at marriage as purely transactional either sexually or financially is
disingenuous.

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conductr
I’m not really imposing this on anyone else just voicing my thoughts on how I
may choose differently given second chance. I’m happily married so know the
pros and cons. Fact of it is I was never gunning for marriage. I dated my wife
for a very long time and she eventually gave me an ultimatum. I didn’t want to
leave her so I married her. That said I think it’s the best decision I’ve ever
made. However, it’s challenging because I’m also selfish and want to focus on
myself and my interests way more than couple stuff. Fact is I don’t need any
of that stuff you listed. I make plenty of money, I don’t give a shit what my
family or friends think, I really sometimes wish I had the resources I have
now without the responsibilities that come with wife, kid, family. It’s
probably the definition of mid life crisis.

I’m thankful to be happily married. I know a lot of people in similar
situations but not happy and refuse to put their kid through a broken home or
they don’t want to lose half or the social/family shame part. It seems
miserable.

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diveanon
I've often joked that getting married is like saying "I love you so much,
let's get the government involved".

I feel like so much of the draw for many people to get married is the
pageantry and narcissism involved.

As a divorced man who is at the age where all his friends seem to be getting
married I can't help but make mental wagers on how many of those marriages
will actually last.

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daenz
The pay gap says that men make more money, but this study would have me
believe that they don't make _enough_ "more money" to settle down with?
Someone please correct my wrongthink.

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mirimir
The "pay gap" is about people who have jobs. With some more or less defensible
assumptions about what jobs are comparable.

But this study is about employment, income and academic characteristics of
available vs desired men. And it too makes some assumptions. One, that women
looking for husbands won't consider other women. And that they exclude men of
other races. Both are obviously false, but arguably not false enough to render
the study meaningless.

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daenz
Unemployment for men is under 4% so I'm not sure how that separates the issue
of the pay gap from the men in this study. Put another way, >96% of men have
income from employment. And according to the study, desired income vs real
income was the biggest difference according to the women. Clearly, >96% of men
are making far less than desired according to the women surveyed.

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mirimir
> Unemployment for men is under 4% ...

Official unemployment data aren't reliable. Mainly because they ignore people
who aren't actively looking for work. Typically because they've given up, or
won't accept what's on offer.

Women do have high standards, according to this study. Somewhat implausibly
high, I admit.

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xtiansimon
I think peeps are forgetting the long term impact to one’s career from bouts
of long term unemployment. How many bounced right back from 2008? Combine with
student debt, rising home prices, and the fact you’re not getting any younger,
then in 10 years you’re not 28, but 38. You have a job, but you’re making less
at 40 then you did at 30. And you’re not supposed to ‘trust’ anyone over 30.
(>_<)

