
Ask HN: Negotiation advice with top tech companies? - tootall
Hi
I was lucky enough to pass the standard software engineer interview with 3 of the top SV tech companies (think Google, Facebook, Apple, Netflix, Amazon). I have about 7 years of experience (some titles held: Software Engineer, Tech Lead, Engineering Manager), and the various recruiters handling my case said the feedback from the various interviewers was generally on the strong&#x2F;very strong side.<p>Problem is: how much can I negotiate?<p>In my current company (medium stage startup) my total cash comp is about $200k and I have unvested equity in the form of stock options that are valued on paper at $~1M (based on the price the investors paid for the last round) and, while the equity is obviously illiquid, the company still has a very considerable growth potential and the business is going well. I already vested a decent amount (not included in my calculation above), so if I leave I would capture to some degree the upside of a liquidity event, should that ever come. I am interested in leaving my current position purely for new technical challenges (I am experiencing a very mild form of burnout due to the lack of new exciting projects), but I am not so desperate to accept a lowball offer. In other words, my BATNA is reasonably high.<p>In terms of offer, what I have gotten so far from one of those companies is:<p>- $180k base salary<p>- $200k RSU package over 4 years<p>- 10% target performance bonus<p>- $25k signing bonus<p>Considering my unvested compensation, this seemed low, so I told the recruiter that and, after a couple days, he came back with more RSUs (total package $300k now). How more can I play this game? It would be nice if the RSU package could get as close as possible to my current potential unvested value, but I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s even possible and if that would have other negative effects (e.g. unreasonably high expected performance level, so that I would be an easy target for termination after 11 months?).<p>Any advice would be great.
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bsvalley
You're honestly at the edge. You might have nailed your interviews because
300k RSU and 180 base is extremely high for 7 years of exp. You can't compare
a startup package with a public company package. I'm surprised they didn't
even tell you the difference between options and RSU's. One is competely
imaginary, the other one is real money. Treat your RSU like a signing bonus
because it's (variable) cash. My guess is that the other offers you might get
will be lower than this one ;)

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tootall
Thanks for your feedback!

The problem is that, while my current startup is "imaginary" money compared to
RSUs, the business is going very strong, we have multi million dollar yearly
revenues so I'm not at a point where I consider the options as a huge gamble.
It's very likely that they will retain a significant value.

Also notice that RSUs are 300k over 4 years, so effectively 75k a year: is 75k
a year "extremely high"? I was under the impression that several employees at
google and similar usually double their yearly compensation with RSUs, every
year, which means RSU grant = 4*base salary (e.g. 350k a year total comp)

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bsvalley
It's tough on the negotiation because your current package is virtual no
matter how good the startup is doing. They're offering you real money, big
difference. All you have to do with your $300K cash is to stay their for 4
years to get the full (variable) amount guaranteed. Also, something you need
to know is that these big companies (I worked there myself) will easily give
you another $50-$100K each year (on another 4 year plan) after your annual
review. Depends if you perform well. From your offer I'm pretty confident
you'll be one of these employees who will get well rewarded every year. So
300K is just the first year. It will pile up pretty quickly my friend. Stay
their for 4 years and you'll see your W2 jumping through the roof ;)

[180k + 75k + 15-20K (bonus)] x 4 = $1 million cash.

Add up your extra RSU's each year + salary raise then you could potentially
reach $1.5 in 4 years. It's money pretty much guaranteed minus the global
stock market.

I'm surprised they've increased their original offer by %50, which is huge.
Put it this way - at a public company there's no risk at all, they've absorbed
all the risks a while back when they were a small startup. This is when they
were offering a big piece of the pie to their early employees. Their stocks
got split multiple times so it doubled or even quadrupled while the startup
was still growing. They needed more shares for upcoming employees.

You can't come at the end as a software engineer and ask for $1 million in
RSU's it just doesn't make sense. You are riding the wave at your current
startup, which is pretty good for you! You can't apply the same principal
everywhere else. They're stock is traded publicly so they have to justify each
and every penny they spend.

The google thingy is a myth. Only a handful of people make a lot of money,
either from acquisitions or some sort of AI guru. Maybe you are? I don't know.

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tootall
Thank you for your thorough reply, I really appreciate it.

I can guarantee you I'm no guru at all, I just have a solid understanding of
distributed systems on top of average coding skills.

Anyway, I talked to the recruiter and have still been on the defensive side,
so he just told me to share with him what's the number I'll need in order to
stop this and just say yes, and he'll work with the financial department to
see what he can do. I'm going to probably try to get a very mild increase
after I hear what the other companies have to say, but it's definitely good to
know I can't overly milk the cow

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JSeymourATL
Ask how you qualify for a potential raise your in 2nd year, understand their
standards.

Also, don't limit this to just a monetary discussion (ask for additional PTO,
Perks, etc...) On this subject Stuart Diamond is brilliant >
[https://youtu.be/liCOqUQzpQs](https://youtu.be/liCOqUQzpQs)

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tmaly
Yeah your pretty much at a near max. Take the offer with the highest base
salary. Options and any other form can have a downside.

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tootall
Thanks for your opinion!

