
Stealing the Enemy's Urban Advantage: The Battle of Sadr City - jspencer508
https://mwi.usma.edu/stealing-enemys-urban-advantage-battle-sadr-city/
======
allen37
I had the "pleasure" of participating in these events as an 18 year old
infantryman. Living in an outpost with a generator and no running water,
tightly nestled away between AQI and JAM. Mortars in the morning, IED or two
in the day, and skirmishes at night while the engineers brought in the
T-walls. Character building, to say the least.

~~~
throwaway713824
My ETS date was June 2002, I was a 19k (tank crewman). My first day as a
civilian I swore into the Air Force reserve. Word was they were stop holding
tankers and calling them back in. No effing way I was going to war with the
low lifes and criminals I served with in tank platoons in the late 90s. I
understand recruiting did a lot better after 9/11, more motivated people. All
I knew was if the Air Force has me the Army couldn’t get me. Peace brother.

~~~
SamReidHughes
Wow, that would be a great answer for the YC application's "Please tell us
about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your
advantage?" question.

------
ucaetano
> Tanks began to fire 120-millimeter canister rounds (in essence, shotgun-type
> rounds that, once fired, open into hundreds of tiny pieces) down streets
> from their main guns. The canister rounds blew the trash off the streets
> and, in many cases, exploded IEDs lying in wait for the patrol.

The interesting part that most people don't think about (and is extremely
relevant in a MOUT setting) is the pressure shock coming out of a main gun,
which can be deadly for up to 200m:

 _The overpressure from the tank 120-mm cannon can kill a marine found within
a 90-degree arc extending from the muzzle of the gun tube out to 200 meters._
(Marines MOUT Manual)

When firing it down a narrow, building-lined corridor, the effect can be far
longer, and even without the canister shot it would likely be enough to clear
a large section of the street.

~~~
howard941
> Tanks began to fire 120-millimeter canister rounds (in essence, shotgun-type
> rounds that, once fired, open into hundreds of tiny pieces) down streets
> from their main guns.

Are the resulting pieces effectively flechettes but lawful?

~~~
ThrowawayR2
No, they're not flechettes. According to the manufacturer, the projectiles are
tungsten spheres.

[https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/large-caliber-
ammunition/12...](https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/large-caliber-
ammunition/120mm-m1028/)

(There's even a sales brochure.)

~~~
mooman219
Honestly I'm surprised that a military ordinance page is so clean and straight
forward. It also feels a little strange to see marketing material for military
weapons.

~~~
samstave
In ~1992/93 I lived in Reno Nevada. Around the corner from my house was a gun
store, owned by this Chinese guy. I liked guns and military stuff (my brother
is Colonel in USAF) and so I would go in there quite frequently. And I was on
friendly terms with the owner...

He had a huge cannon that you could pay him $500 to drive out into the desert
and shoot [0]

I was 17, it was early 90s and Nevada. He had just imported two shipping
containers of new (mfr date 1968) Chinese made SKS rifles and was having a
special on them, $99.

I bought one - and was talking to the guy and he pulled out a three ring
binder and said "want to see what that can do?"

And he opened it up and he had effectively a catalog of pictures of the fatal
wounds various weapon rounds would cause. (pictures of dead people)

I was deeply disturbed. I never went back in there...

(He also offered to sell me claymore mines which he had up on the top shelf
all around the store... [THIS SIDE TOWARD ENEMY])

[0]
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/61-K_Aut...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/61-K_Automatic_Anti-
Air_Cannon.JPG)

~~~
gcb0
what's your expectations from guns exactly then?

~~~
samstave
I didnt mean it like that - I enjoy guns, and knowing how to use them, be safe
with them etc...

But pre-internet, actual printed out physical pictures which were developed in
a 3-ring binder to a 17-year-old in 1992 was a disturbing dose of reality.

------
edraferi
> [JAM] Snipers would also shoot at the crane cable or the lone soldier that
> was forced to climb a ladder to unhook each concrete wall. Special
> operations forces snipers were extremely useful in a counter-sniper role.
> Nevertheless, there were situations where confirmed snipers and fighters
> that could not be engaged by US snipers had to be targeted with air-
> delivered, precision-guided bombs or Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System
> (GMLRS) rounds that could penetrate the buildings’ layers of concrete. One
> instance that required a concrete-penetrating option was when a JAM sniper
> occupied and fortified one of the few five-story buildings north of the Gold
> Wall was being constructed and at a key intersection where he was able to
> engage the wall-building team. Direct fire placed on the building did not
> affect the sniper’s fortified position. 1-68 CAB’s solution was to drop the
> building using the GMLRS. But for the duration of the Battle of Sadr City,
> coalition forces used fewer than three mortar or artillery fire missions
> because of the risk of collateral damage, the prospect of injuring
> civilians, and the potential political ramifications both locally for the
> government of Iraq and internationally for political support to the
> coalition forces.

Don't bring a sniper rifle to a combined-arms fight, I suppose. It's
interesting & typical of modern war that the politics of the fight constrain
the weapons choice much more than the tactical situation.

~~~
skrebbel
> _had to be targeted with air-delivered, precision-guided bombs or Guided
> Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rounds that could penetrate the
> buildings’ layers of concrete._

Wow, I'm very not used to reading military text. They write "a concrete-
penetrating option" but they mean "we blew up the building and everybody
inside it".

I truly wonder how many innocent lives could be saved if military people would
start writing honestly.

~~~
Kalium
I suspect you might be very unpleasantly surprised by how little things would
change. Additionally, they were quite honest about what they did:

> 1-68 CAB’s solution was to drop the building using the GMLRS.

It is, of course, quite possible that "drop the building" is insufficiently
honest for you. I'm sure the author could have written "explosively
annihilated the five-story building under construction, most likely killing
any person inside or atop it". Though I confess I'm not sure what this
phrasing would add that "drop the building" does not. Perhaps you can
enlighten me?

In this case, the intended audience appears to be mainly subject matter
experts. So they use the jargon of concrete-penetrating because that appears
to be the relevant technical detail that guided the munitions choice.

~~~
yesenadam
>It is, of course, quite possible that "drop the building" is insufficiently
honest for you. I'm sure the author could have written "explosively
annihilated the five-story building under construction, most likely killing
any person inside or atop it". Though I confess I'm not sure what this
phrasing would add that "drop the building" does not. Perhaps you can
enlighten me?

That's just ridiculous. Silly and snarky. But you know that. The GP wanted
_honest_ , not _more verbose_ ; plain language that _describes_ the reality,
not pseudo-objective jargon that _conceals_ it. What makes it horrific is that
you're joking about killing lots of people.

"Drop the building" is also a euphemism, like "light up" to mean _to kill_.
Making murder sound bland and neutral. But I suppose it must be, to the
"subject matter experts".

~~~
briffle
I would argue that being able to destroy a single building with an air strike
is a HUGE reduction in 'killing lots of people' compared to wars past, where
large bombers dropped thousands of bombs over entire areas of a city hoping to
weaken/destroy infrastructure the enemy was using.

~~~
baud147258
> dropped thousands of bombs over entire areas of a city hoping to
> weaken/destroy infrastructure

I'm pretty sure that in a lot of cases, hitting urban area was the goal, with
theories that killing civilians will help win the war.

------
ham_sandwich
Urban combat tactics are fascinating. I’m reminded of this post that explains
how the IDF in the early 2000s would try to “walk through walls” in urban
combat. It also discusses how the film ‘Die Hard’ is a study of architecture.
[0] The underlying essay referenced in the post is brief and interesting as
well, discussing how those urban tactics were influenced by postwar French
thought, in particular the ideas of Deleuze & Guattari.

[0] [http://www.bldgblog.com/2010/01/nakatomi-
space/](http://www.bldgblog.com/2010/01/nakatomi-space/)

~~~
secfirstmd
Mouse-holing, which is essentially what you describe, is a pretty old tactic.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse-
holing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse-holing)

The IDF also extensively used "neighbour pressure"[1][2] and "human
shields"[3] against civilians as operational Urban Warfare techniques in the
2000s. Basically grabbing an innocent civilian and sending them into a
dangerous location nearby to clear the trail in front of you in the knowledge
an enemy is less inclined to kill a neighbour.* Of course, how is that
innocent civilian supposed to know where a landmine or tripwire is placed?
Something not as readily available to US forces in Iraq.

[1] "IDF to appeal human shield ban"

[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm)

[2] [https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/wp-
content/uploads/201...](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/wp-
content/uploads/2011/02/Operation_Cast_Lead_Gaza_2009_Eng.pdf)

[3]
[https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields](https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields)

*Yes this is a war crime and a violation of Geneva Convention. Even the Israeli Supreme Court said it shouldn't be allowed.

~~~
paganel
I’ve seen the same tactic used in the Syrian Civil War, especially during the
battle of Aleppo. I’m on my phone and can’t easily searched for image
references but the first image link that I could find [1] is pretty self-
explaining. Too bad YT took down almost all of the videos related to the war,
even the non-gory ones, it was a good resource for amateurs like myself
interested in modern-day warfare and tactics.

[1] [https://www.al-
monitor.com/pulse/en/security/2013/10/syria-d...](https://www.al-
monitor.com/pulse/en/security/2013/10/syria-damascus-clashes-aleppo-russian-
kidnapped.amp.html)

~~~
monocasa
These guys did some really great work archiving as much as they could.

[https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7909-syrian_archive](https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7909-syrian_archive)

------
gilbetron
In the day of fluff blog/medium posts, it's great to see something like this
with it's incredible detail and exhaustiveness. I'll always be amazed that one
of the main weapons in modern times is concrete. I worked for years as a
contractor (geeky contractor, not merc-like contractor) for the DoD and it is
fascinating to read this in-depth coverage of battle zones.

~~~
ranie93
This article linked in OP's submission has more information on the role of
concrete in modern battlefields

[https://mwi.usma.edu/effective-weapon-modern-battlefield-
con...](https://mwi.usma.edu/effective-weapon-modern-battlefield-concrete/)

~~~
yread
Discussed quite a bit here
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12962776](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12962776)

------
ducktypegoose
Good god just thinking about the resources and costs behind what this report
describes is staggering. If the collaborative insight, intelligence,
engineering, planning, and... just... human effort poured into this microcosm
was directed towards building something, what would we have? Probably
something a lot more useful than a ruined city and a bunch of graves.

~~~
bmer
Some ideas:

* multi-storey farms, with "JIT" food production: lots of our food production is wasted, what if we streamlined it, by locating food production centers closer to population centers? Homeless people/other "undesirables" could be given some work maintaining a food production source they can be proud of (availability high tech solutions for various problems, lunch and learns with power point presentations and fancy marketing speak, rapid solution iteration by close interaction between (think, same office) engineers and green-collar food workers)

* traditional farms will keep their roles as is, but will have attached to them food preservation facilities, so that they can build stockpiles for when JIT fails us (natural disasters, etc.), and also be able to sell preserved stockpiles in general as special foods in supermarkets (bunch of "culinary engineering" will have to be done to take traditional preservation methods which have tasty output, and mass-produce it, or better yet, come up with new methods (with tastier output))

* public washrooms with automated cleaning facilities (janitors who maintain the washrooms are inducted into a 24 month MOS on mechanical design and robot construction---they don't need to be become experts on the physics, just aware of the possibilities so that they can combine their experience with this knowledge to come up with designs for engineers to construct, and are then responsible for testing in the field, and iterating on design)

* people who are willing to take risks exploring (maybe again, many "homeless" people/undesirables) could be recruited into fancy programs with the goal of most expansive deep sea exploration to date: mountains of geological, biological, meteorological data for scientists to explore; plus, an excellent training ground for deep space exploration (hostile outdoor environment, massive pressure differentials making structural design complicated)

* programs which involve the "mentally disabled" (think Down's syndrome, or other "obviously mentally deficient" illnesses) not in order to study them as "specimens" to be kept in the confines of their home, or a nursing home, but by involving psycholgists/neuroscientists to work with them in order to figure out the answer to: "sure, they suck at XYZ, is there anything they truly excel at? are there jobs/work/problems that other humans dislike doing which the "disabled" enjoy doing extremely, and are particularly well suited for? are there surprises regarding their capabilities (i.e. could it be that certain illnesses make you extremely good at certain types of mental tasks, which we don't know of because we simply don't interact with such people enough)?

* similar to last point, except for elderly, rather than treating them as old junk---figuring out ways to take advantage of their experience, for their benefit, and that of humanity

* fusion reactors

* deep space asteroid-mining

* energy storage research

* UI research

~~~
thinkcontext
There's a lot of bizarre stuff in your comment but using the homeless for deep
sea exploration!? WTF

How old are you? I would guess in your teens.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
What is interesting is how certain techniques in warfare are conserved.
Reading about how a concrete wall was constructed to hem in the opposing
forces and force their capitulation in 2008, brought to my mind the Battle of
Alesia in 52 BC by Julius Caesar
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia)).

In that battle, as in the battle for Sadr City, the Romans were constrained
from a direct assault on the city. The Romans built a wall surrounding the
city, cutting off the enemy from supplies. Eventually, the Celtic warriors
inside the city were forced to try to attack the Roman wall and were defeated
(as was a relieving force trying to attack the Romans from the other side).
The Celtic leader Vercingetorix surrendered (he was taken to Rome as a
prisoner and eventually strangled), and this cemented Julius Caesar's
reputation as a brilliant commander.

That these two battles separated by over 2000 years and with completely
different weaponry, still share the same basic plot, is to my mind amazing.

~~~
NovaS1X
>That these two battles separated by over 2000 years and with completely
different weaponry, still share the same basic plot, is to my mind amazing.

I agree. I also found it fascinating when they mentioned how when placing the
wall pieces, the soldier unhooking the segment was at risk from enemy sniper
fire, and how a mantlet could be used to protect the soldier. Mantlets has
been around as long as sieges and were there to shield trench diggers from
castle archer fire. It's incredible how many historical parallels can be drawn
here.

I think it really underscores the importance of studying history not just in
war, but in all things.

~~~
WalterBright
I recall reading once that one of the reasons the Spanish were able to conquer
S. America is that, with writing, the commanders had available to them a
thousand years of military knowledge.

------
AceJohnny2
> _Their only warning was when their garbage wasn’t picked by a contracted
> trash collector at the same time it typically was each week. When they
> called him, he was adamant that he was not coming._

"Some of you guys are cool. Don't go to <blank> tomorrow"

I wonder what other kinds of "canary" one can setup in such a situation.

~~~
psychedelic
I was an infantryman in a outpost on the east side of Sadr city. There was
only a few platoons at this place at a time. I was on guard that morning and
all of the sudden there was a mass migration of all males leaving the area. It
was so surreal. Most of them were just clearing out because they knew shit was
about to go down and they didn't want to be around for it when it did. But
seeing thousands of people just walk from their neighborhoods was crazy.

------
AcerbicZero
I've always loved history, especially military history, however this is the
first time I've read an article in this format regarding events I was actively
involved with. I spent my formative years of 2006-2008 involved in OIF, and
again in 2009-2010, and reading this has been both humbling and surreal.

This article reads like a classic WWII historical analysis of some specific
battle, and its kind of amazing that can even be done for this, because the
way I remember most of my time during OIF, the whole thing was a jumbled mess
of Army politics, confusion, and misinterpretation.

~~~
hart_russell
Thanks for your service.

~~~
AcerbicZero
I never know what to say to that, but thank you for saying it :)

------
politician
> The role and effectiveness of concrete in reducing violence across Baghdad
> cannot be understated. Concrete barriers had been used throughout Iraq for
> years to reduce the threat of improvised explosive devices (IEDs) emplaced
> along major roads. But during the surge, concrete barriers were widely used
> to limit the enemy’s ability to maneuver freely across Baghdad. The first
> surge unit in Thawra District, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne
> Division, led by Col. Billy Don Farris, emplaced over thirty miles of
> concrete barriers. One of the first uses of concrete was to protect the
> Adhamiya neighborhood by building a three-mile wall around it—which would
> earn a nickname: the “Great Wall of Adhamiya.”

> The barriers used to form the walls were named after American states to
> denote their progressive size. The smallest, Jersey barriers (three feet
> tall; two tons), were used to block roads and slow traffic approaching
> checkpoints. Medium to large barriers—Colorado (six feet tall; 3.5 tons),
> Texas (six feet, eight inches tall; six tons), and Alaska (twelve feet tall;
> seven tons)—were used to construct checkpoints and protective walls around
> markets, mosques, and other areas where crowds were being targeted by bombs
> and shootings. The Texas barrier, due to its width and ease of transport,
> among other reasons, was predominately used to create the safe
> neighborhoods. But it was the massive T-walls that were used to create
> coalition and ISF bases and to maximize protection and prevent infiltration.
> Similar in size to Alaska barriers, the massive twelve-foot-tall, six-ton
> T-wall, with its interconnecting edges, created an effective barrier.

Curious how folks interpret these statements as reinforcing or undermining
their positions on the US Border Wall debacle. Is it a possibility that POTUS,
upon hearing reports similar to this from Iraq, might be likely to want to
reuse the approach?

Conversely, why is this effective in Iraq? Can opposition forces not build
tunnels or lay ladders over these walls?

~~~
torstenvl
It's effective in Iraq just like it would be effective here: great for
reducing blast radius, building serpentines leading up to vehicle checkpoints,
and -- more pertinent to this discussion -- increasing the time it takes to
breach a barrier.

Just like any security system, from asymmetric encryption to a steel military
weapons vault, you can't make something perfectly secure. You can only make it
difficult and time-consuming to breach the target.
[https://www.internationalvault.com/images/standards/class-a-...](https://www.internationalvault.com/images/standards/class-
a-vault-table-10-l.jpg)

The concrete barriers in Iraq can be and have been breached.
[https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2016/0430/Pro-
Sa...](https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2016/0430/Pro-Sadr-
protestors-breach-Baghdad-s-fortified-Green-Zone)

And that's the crux of the issue: a militarized Green Zone has forces ready
and able to respond when a breach attempt is detected, whereas remote New
Mexico desert does not. The timescale of an unlawful entry event is a total
mismatch for the amount of delay this particular security measure will
introduce in an immigration context -- it's like using single-pass DES for
strategic intel against an adversary with a botnet.

------
jimkri
Really interesting read.

Lately I have been researching GIS Data and CRE Data. The military has to have
a tool to do this, but what if you could have a live video feed that would
watch for muzzle flashes or tracer rounds. When they are spotted you can try
to pinpoint the location and add a layer of Building information to track the
locations and all the risks associated with going into those areas.

I wonder what researchers are doing for the military and if they are applying
graph theory to these types of problems (or other things that I don't know
about yet) and what tech they are using to help the people on the ground.

~~~
donavanm
WRT detection triangulation based off sound is both effective and wide spread.
Search for “shot spotter” in use in many cities in a civillian context. For
military threat modeling you may be interested in the human intelligence
exploitation (HET) teams in afghanistan and itaq. Theyre compound teams
pulling in disparate specialists (like sociologists) to study, model, and
report on an area. And yes, thats aggregated up through battalion intelligence
for tactical use.

~~~
jimkri
Oh wow HET is really interesting, I never knew or thought about that type of
work, thanks for the information!

Do you know if most jobs in HET/HUMINT are for Military personnel only?

~~~
donavanm
No. They pulled in both other intelligence agency officers and more
traditional civilian subject matter experts. Results were mixed with strong
opinions on both sides. Check out the Human Terrain projects
[http://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pdffiles/pub1308.pdf](http://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pdffiles/pub1308.pdf)

------
AndrewKemendo
As late as 2010, when I was involved in the OIF transition to "New Dawn," Sadr
City was still basically a no mans land, and was the bulk of where the "bad
shit" would happen when it came to IED makers, smugglers, planners and other
AQI activity.

Some absolute horrors in what is effectively a tiny square Suburb.

------
ranie93
The comments on the NYT article linked in this submission are interesting to
say the least.

[https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/20/baghdads-
great-...](https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/20/baghdads-great-wall-
of-adhamiya/)

------
omio
A lot of this was used in Ramadi the year before.

~~~
greedo
And the 2nd Battle of Fallujah.

------
tlear
Would be fascinating to have analysis like this of the tactics employed by
Russians in Aleppo and rest of Syria.

------
secabeen
Sadr City feels like a current, slightly-less-dense version of Kowloon Walled
City.

------
WalterBright
Seems like they reinvented siege warfare. Caesar did something similar in the
Battle of Alesia.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia)

~~~
starpilot
That's mentioned in the article along with another historical precedents.

~~~
WalterBright
Huh, I missed that when I skimmed over the summary at the end.

------
starpilot
War is fascinating.

------
sgt101
A great and important essay. A classic.

------
oskkejdjdkjd
this website is supposed to benefit American military academics and by
extension the interests of the United States. But posting these lessons and
insights publicly advances all nations equally, including our enemies.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to keep all this stuff within the US military?

~~~
nexuist
Some armchair philosophy (I have absolutely no valid credentials to justify
the following points, but might be interesting to consider):

Similar could be said about allowing the free press to report on the
government's deficiencies (Presidential scandals, bureaucratic mistakes,
internal strife, Snowden, etc.)

One of the founding principles of a liberal democracy is that freedom to
access information enables far more people to make far more attempts to
innovate and invent new strategies/tactics/products that can help defeat the
status quo. Even though your enemies may be able to access that information,
the information is useless without brilliant minds capable of interpreting it
and acting upon it. Hence the important role of public education / immigration
within a democracy, ensuring that your citizens are the ones who e.g. come up
with nuclear weapons before anyone else does.

The mistake you are making here is the same that North Korea makes when it
allocates a majority of its budget to military operations. Sure, you can
acquire shitty second hand tanks and submarines and guns, but the real winners
- the quick thinkers, commanders, tacticians, improvisionists (all of whom are
just as needed on the field as in the war rooms) - can only end up at your
service if you build a society that provides prosperous education
opportunities and also takes care of all basic needs to enable citizens to
focus on their education. It is with this system that you can end up with
great soldiers, great generals, and great supplying organizations (Lockheed
Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, etc.) all under one flag.

------
ranchpredictor
Cadr city

