
China’s Mobike plans move into services and international expansion - janober
https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/mobike-cto-joe-xia-techcrunch-china-shenzhen
======
IIAOPSW
I'm in China and use Mobike a lot. I've said it before and I'll say it again.
MoBike totally nails it. In terms of bike sharing they blow everything out of
the water. The bikes work, the unlocking via app is quick, the prices are
reasonable, and you can park anywhere. To anyone who says China can't
innovate, this will take the wind out of your sails. I think they will be the
first Chinese startup to become a consumer juggernaut on par with Airbnb or
Uber.

~~~
jk2323
I would bet against it.

Germany had the best tank in WW2. The "royal tiger". But the Russian T34 was
much cheaper. They outproduced Germany.

MoBikes are expensive and heavy. They look over-engineered for the problem
they are trying to solve. Compare this with the yellow bkes ofo. They seem to
be much cheaper to produce and are much lighter (no GPS positioning system,
location is saved by last cyclist during checkout).

~~~
crdb
Ofos get stolen. There are almost none left in Singapore. All you need to do
is remember the PIN, and scratch out the serial.

The "overengineered" Mobikes and oBikes (a competitor with very similar bikes
- solar panels for the electronics, GPS lock, etc.) are all that is left in
our streets.

~~~
dis-sys
Not sure which mobike model you guys have in Singapore, the ones in
Shanghai/Beijing have pretty poor user experience, it just feel so heavy
thanks to its chain-less design.

~~~
ttflee
Try its 4th gen bicycles with chains.

~~~
dis-sys
solid tyres? then still the same heavy feeling.

------
dis-sys
the entire bicycle manufacturing industry is being wiped out thanks to Mobike
and its competitor ofo (each has about 50% of market share). one of them
ordered 5 million bikes a couple months back, according to the files submitted
to the Chinese regulator, the manufacturer building those bikes are making
less than 1.5 USD per bike - you don't need to be smart to imagine the
conditions faced by those workers actually building the bikes.

bike shops around the country are being shutdown as people no longer
buy/upgrade/repair their own bikes, they rent one for 6 USD cent each ride.
you see less fun/cool/stupid/crappy bikes on street, they all look the same
now.

do they reduce emission? well, rather than walking to the metro stations to
catch metro people now ride a mobike/ofo to catch the metro, I don't see any
reduced cars on street. There is no stats to back the reduced emission story
at all - otherwise you'd be seeing them pointing to those figures jumping up
and down on daily basis.

do they make cities better? well, see photos below, remember - they don't
clean up their mess, they just deploy their tens of millions cheap bikes onto
your streets.

[http://img.mp.itc.cn/upload/20170327/3e5e188412ef46ca892d20f...](http://img.mp.itc.cn/upload/20170327/3e5e188412ef46ca892d20f57d6a7ab3_th.jpeg)

[http://s2.imbiker.cn/201705/22/b25b38ba8cda6df9c686657044f48...](http://s2.imbiker.cn/201705/22/b25b38ba8cda6df9c686657044f4813d.jpeg)

~~~
rahimnathwani
"the entire bicycle manufacturing industry is being wiped out thanks to Mobike
and its competitor ofo"

If fewer bicycles are being produced due to higher usage per bike, that's good
for the environment, right? Even if reduces the size of the bicycle
manufacturing market.

"manufacturer building those bikes are making less than 1.5 USD per bike - you
don't need to be smart to imagine the conditions faced by those workers
actually building the bikes."

I don't see how the profit made my bicycle manufacturers affects worker
conditions. These are determined by the overall labour market, as these
workers aren't bicycle specialists.

"I don't see any reduced cars on street."

The effect would have to be huge in order for you to be able to notice it.
(I'm assuming you didn't actually collect data.)

"do they make cities better?"

Yes. The subway journey from my place to work is unacceptably long, due to the
long walk at one end. Mobike has solved that problem. Three-wheeler electric
tuktuks riding the wrong way down the service lane are less prevalent now,
too, which is a bonus.

~~~
dis-sys
"If fewer bicycles are being produced due to higher usage per bike, that's
good for the environment, right?"

The manufacturers are being hit hard because their profit margin is squeezed
to the absolute limit. 8 RMB or less than 1.5 USD is the profit you get for
building and shipping a bike. With this in mind, do you seriously believe that
they are going to maintain the same level of control to limit pollution when
making those bikes? Well, your room for environmental protection is now at
less than 1.5 USD each bike, that is assuming the manufacturer is willing to
give up _ALL_ profit to battle pollution caused during production.

"Yes. The subway journey from my place to work is unacceptably long, due to
the long walk at one end. Mobike has solved that problem. Three-wheeler
electric tuktuks riding the wrong way down the service lane are less prevalent
now, too, which is a bonus."

Great, would you like to share a few photos on how the metro station look like
during peak hours? let's focus on those mobike/ofo pollution outside the
station. I have a few for you:

[http://www.52qixiang.com/uploads/allimg/170421/1-1F4211AU9.j...](http://www.52qixiang.com/uploads/allimg/170421/1-1F4211AU9.jpg)
[http://p3.pstatp.com/origin/1b7a00067dfae9a90762](http://p3.pstatp.com/origin/1b7a00067dfae9a90762)

~~~
rahimnathwani
"do you seriously believe that they are going to maintain the same level of
control to limit pollution when making those bikes?"

I believe that the level of profit they make has no impact on the level of
control to limit pollution. Their actions in regard to pollution will be
driven by whatever (dis)incentives are put in place by government regulations.

"that is assuming the manufacturer is willing to give up _ALL_ profit to
battle pollution caused during production"

That is assuming that the profit figure doesn't already reflect any costs for
'battling pollution'.

"let's focus on those mobike/ofo pollution outside the station"

You're using the word 'pollution' in a different sense than I was, and in a
wider sense than the common usage. I was talking about air quality, and I
guess you knew that. You're talking about space taken up on the pavement, a
very different problem.

------
beefsack
People are talking about Mobike being innovators, and their business sounds
like it's doing really well, but bike sharing is a concept that's been around
for a while. Melbourne Bike Share[1] was founded in 2010, though apparently
the bike sharing concept was around in Europe since the 60s[2].

People suggest Melbourne Bike Share was largely unsuccessful due to mandatory
helmet laws in Australia making them a bit inconvenient. I'm sure there will
be idiosyncrasies in certain places which make the concept less appealing.

In saying that though, I really wish there was a service like this when I
lived in Guangzhou. I think it's a great fit for very dense cities.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Bike_Share](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Bike_Share)

[2]: "Runde Sache". Readers Digest Deutschland (in German). 06/11: 74–75. June
2011.

~~~
rorykoehler
The sharing schemes in Europe and MoBike are completely different. The
dockless nature of MoBike, Ofo, Obike etc is an order of magnitude game
changer. I pick up a bike from below my block, ride it anywhere and just leave
it there. I use it many times a day. When I lived in Europe I never once used
the docked bike sharing services.

------
captainmuon
I would love to introduce this to my country, Germany. I think in large cities
it might work well, especially for the last meters after public transport, but
also in university towns. We already have rentable bikes, but Ofo and Mobike
proved that you don't have to have overengineered docking stations and
complicated locks. If you let people just leave the bikes where they want, it
works surprisingly well.

Problems are:

\- I have no capital, and you'd need a high investment upfront. Even the
simplest bike is not going to cost less than 200-300 €, and those are not the
most durable. Also, in Germany you require light. However, I think Ofo has
proven that you do not need GPS or electronic locks (initially), and you don't
need docking stations.

\- Germans sometimes hate new things. It is my gut feeling that I'd get a lot
of resistance. Especially after the first accident, or the first bike gets
thrown into a river. One problem is that in Beijing, apparently there is an
Ofo graveyard. I haven't seen it myself, but broken Ofo bikes are piling
meters high. You just need one bad competitor who creates a mess, and the
whole idea is in danger.

But:

\- As a renter, you are not obliged to get insurance for the riders AFAIK.

\- Bike infrastructure is good already.

\- It should be possible to make a sustainable business, but you'd have to
reach a certain scale.

~~~
sveme
Don't you have Callabike in your city? It's exactly the same concept, the lock
isn't complicated and it all works like a charm. Use the app to find one, ride
to wherever you want to, leave it there and log out. Then there's Nextbike,
which I haven't used yet but works similarly and stuff from local public
transportation companies like MVG Rad in Munich which has stations but allows
you to leave the bike also in a certain area. How does Mobike provide more
than these offerings?

~~~
captainmuon
Yes, but in my town you can only pick them up at the train station and have to
bring them back there. In larger cities there are more stations, or in some
places you can leave them anywhere, but I've never been to a place where they
were abundant. From what I've heard, Munich is a particularly good place.

The difference to the chinese bikes is:

\- The chinese bikes are dirt simple. They sometimes have reliability-oriented
features like special tires, otherwise they are just commodity bikes with a
lock, painted colorful. Call a bike in contrast is really overengineered, with
custom frame and everything. (OK, this is more of an advantage for the company
than for the user.)

\- There are no stations. This is the big difference. Where ever I can walk, I
can ride faster. I never look for a bike, I just grab one when I find it.

\- The bicyles are absolutely abundant. Even at a small subway station in
beijing, there are at least 50 of each brand. Contrast it with Hamburg, where
in the city center, 2 stops away from the central station, you find a sad
docking station with eight empty places. Maybe this is only possible due to
"chinese scale", I don't know.

------
ttflee
Mobike and other sharing bicycle competitors has been in a fierce fight for
three months.

From sometime this April to two to three weeks ago, it is not only free riding
a Mobike, but there is also a chance of random amount of cash gift, known as
Hong Bao. I have personally earned about $40 of cash by riding Mobike, the
amount of which almost reaches the deposit for renting the bike.

~~~
dis-sys
because they are both backed by major investors with access to unlimited cash.
they don't invest in those bikes, your deposit covers that, they don't manage
those bikes, what else to spend their cash on?

well, they picked the easiest way - they pay their users to use their
services.

~~~
ttflee
Even if my deposit had covered the gift cash, what I have got would be too
much in the sense of annualized returns. They just burned incredible amount of
investor's money in this campaign. It would be crucial which of them drains
its revenue first/last. I guess the investors would be in favor of a merger,
then.

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wellinever
Governments should be forcing these operators to place the bike deposits in a
trust account, rather than using the money for capital to fund expansion. I
paid $50 USD as a "deposit" for oBike, however in the future when one of these
companies fails, they will take millions in deposits with them. Especially if
the bikes are getting stolen or wrecked.

------
owens99
Mobike is innovative, however, the competition is becoming so fierce with at
least 10 major copy cats here in Shanghai. The unit economics of this model is
being destroyed by the follower mindset in China's tech scene.

