
The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop - jpatel3
http://photofocus.com/2014/05/04/the-nightmare-of-replacing-a-battery-on-a-mac-laptop-why-your-machine-might-be-lying-to-you/
======
rayiner
Out of warranty battery service on a Mac ranges from $130-200:
[https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=Unite...](https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=United_States&product=Macnotebooks).
I think that's a reasonable price considering Lenovo charges $140 for a
75-watt hour 68+ battery for the T450s:
[http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0C52862/460/D91DC49...](http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0C52862/460/D91DC49376D94C4690E7BA925BCE90CA).

And for $130-200, they will replace your top-case (including keyboard and
touchpad). I have had it done more than once and it was a same-day turnaround
each time (couple of hours).

I wonder if there wasn't something more wrong with his laptop caused by
letting a worn-out battery sit in there too long.

~~~
Daishiman
The difference is that the T450s takes literally 5 seconds todo a battery swap
and you can keep using the machine during the time. No downtime, no
bureaucracy, just go to Amazon and wait 2 days for your battery arrive.

~~~
Bud
Yes, and because of that, the entire design of the case is compromised, it
feels like it's flexing all the time in use, it's far less durable, it
contains additional cheap plastic mechanical failure points and extra
connectors for said easily-replaceable battery, and all this for a part which,
in the normal lifetime of most well-built laptops (aka Macs), will never ever
need to be replaced.

~~~
Someone1234
Nothing you said there has described any Thinkpad I've ever owned. Even after
they got worse (post-IBM).

I've never seen the battery compartment be the source of physical issues.
Typically it is the hinges on the LCD that give up or the case cracks in one
of the four corners.

Mostly the case remains solid and the hardware within blows up.

------
dchuk
Isn't this sort of a cake-and-eat-it-too situation? If you want a slim,
lightweight laptop that still performs at a high level, you can't expect the
old pop out batteries with the little switch we grew up with on laptops.

While $400 is expensive to replace a battery, it's obviously not as simple as
just popping a new one in, which is the compromise one has to make if they
want a Macbook Pro. If you want easily swappable batteries, get a different
machine.

Also, $400 to get a brand new battery to essentially revive a computer that
will probably work great for a few more years is a whole lot cheaper than
having to buy a new computer. Just food for thought.

~~~
andrelaszlo
Is this a trade-off that most buyers are aware of? I'm not sure it's as simple
as "shaving off a couple of millimeters", but if that's the case I know I
would personally trade those millimeters for better serviceability, especially
the day I realize I need a new battery.

I was thinking about switching to a Macbook Pro, but for me this is just
another argument to go with something else.

Can't deny that the hardware is great though, but to me this makes it less
great. I had my last laptop for 8 years because I could replace broken parts
myself, and upgrade to an SSD, I think that's a nice feature of the hardware
too.

~~~
rayiner
Apple tends to use the space savings to stuff in class-leading batteries.

I have a T450s at work. The stock battery is only 46 watt-hours, versus 75 on
the similarly-sized 13" rMBP. The 15" rMBP has a 100 watt-hour battery, which
you can get on a T550s only if you buy the extended battery that sticks out
half an inch from the bottom.

~~~
slantyyz
>> Apple tends to use the space savings to stuff in class-leading batteries.

But can you imagine how big the batteries could be in a 15" MBP that was
roughly the same size as those from 2012 and earlier? Those things would last
even longer than a current 15" rMBP would, especially under load.

------
brentvatne
A couple of weeks ago I dropped off my well-used, out of warranty, never on
AppleCare early-2012 macbook pro to get the keyboard replaced. It turned out
that this repair would also, by necessity, replace the battery (it is part of
the "top case"). ~$380USD, I was happy to pay that considering that my battery
was shot and several of my keys no longer worked at all. A few days later I
went to pick it up and they told me that they needed to replace the logic
board as well because of an original manufacturing defect, and that I was
eligible for a "quality program" screen replacement because the laminate was
peeling. Also presumably because of the hassle they decided I was to be
charged $235 USD instead of the original amount. I tested it out and bam,
kernel panic within seconds of booting into the OS. Same thing on reboot. So
they replaced the logic board again, same problem. Formatted the drive and
installed the OS from a clean image, same problem. They decided that the best
course of action was to replace the laptop entirely. So for $235 I got a brand
new 2015 macbook pro.

Apple's in-store repair, in my experience at least, is fantastic. If something
goes wrong they do whatever they can to address the issue. I'd recommend going
through them if you're considering changing some of the internals of a macbook
pro given how easily it can go wrong.

~~~
ac29
>I tested it out and bam, kernel panic within seconds of booting into the OS.
Same thing on reboot. So they replaced the logic board again, same problem.

>Apple's in-store repair, in my experience at least, is fantastic.

This reeks of cognitive dissonance. Their repair is "fantastic" yet their
repair technicians were incapable of turning on the laptop to see if it was
even capable of booting. Then, they did the exact same thing again, eventually
giving up and replacing the product? You lucked out that their repair
department was so incompetent, or their product was so defective that you got
a free upgrade to a newer model. Doesnt sound like a ringing endorsement of
anything except customer service.

~~~
brentvatne
Great point, I suppose I was just judging it entirely on the end result.

------
jhrrsn
Over the course of my professional life with laptops, I've used Apple,
Alienware, Dell and Lenovo machines. I can safely say that the three-day
turnaround in an actual bricks & mortar store offered by Apple is far and away
the best service I've ever received (the worst being a two-week wait that
didn't resolve the issue!).

Regarding the business-level support, I think it's fair enough for the store
to deliver a baseline level of support to consumers for free and a paid-for
service for people who need priority and/or loaner machines to cover the
repair period. I personally don't think that yelling at managers should result
in priority over other people in the queue.

I think the main issue here is that because Apple integrate their batteries
like they do, it's not possible to perform what was once a simple repair
yourself. I'm personally okay with that, because the outstanding battery life
on my MacBook Pro is a boon almost every single day.

~~~
jo909
When my Lenovo Thinkpad has a hardware problem, a technician comes to my home
or office to repair it.

~~~
wodenokoto
For free?

~~~
ac29
Onsite service is generally a paid add on at the time of purchase. I'ts not
uncommon for businesses to pay the extra cost. I've had fantastic <24h onsite
repairs or replacements from various PC manufacturers.

I have no idea if Apple offers this sort of service, but if they do, I'm sure
it isn't cheap. 3 day, in store, in (limited) warranty repairs isn't the same
class of service.

------
blowski
Just as a side-note (IANAL), in the EU, retailers can't refuse to fix
something just because it's past their warranty period. If you can establish
that the product has broke under reasonable use then you can argue that the
product wasn't fit for purpose when you bought it, and therefore it is still
the retailer's responsibility to repair it, replace it or give you a partial
refund.

I did this with Apple when my logic board failed just under two years after
buying a Macbook Pro 2009 model. I argued that the product had only
experienced normal use, Apple's website implied that their laptops should last
5 years (since they talk about upgrading Macbooks for 5 years), and the price
of the laptop was a premium price so I should expect it to last for that
period of time. It took a bit of arguing, but in the end they did the work for
free.

~~~
DavidAdams
That would partially explain why an Apple laptop in Europe routinely costs
$500+ more than in the US.

~~~
catkin
Except that they don't. The base 13 inch MBP costs $1299 in the US and £999 in
the UK, which converts to $1531.52 at the time I wrote this comment, for a
difference of ~$230. The mid-level costs $1499 in the US and £1199 in the UK,
which converts to $1838, a difference of $339.

~~~
riquito
> The base 13 inch MBP costs $1299 in the US and £999 in the UK

Are they both `after taxes`?

~~~
jahewson
The US price is pre-tax (depends on state: 8.5% in California). The UK price,
like most other countries in the world, already includes all taxes (VAT is
20%). In California the $1299 MBP will actually cost you $1414 including sales
tax, a difference of just $117. In the UK the price includes AppleCare (under
EU law), which would cost an extra $249 in the US. So if you were going to buy
AppleCare anyway, then it's actually ~£85 cheaper overall in the UK.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> In the UK the price includes AppleCare (under EU law), which would cost an
> extra $249 in the US.

No, it does not include AppleCare. Apple must provide a limited 2 year
warranty under EU law. But they still sell their 1-year and 3-year AppleCare
plans.

------
adrianmacneil
This article seems a bit unreasonable.

AppleCare not being automatically associated with a device when it isn't
purchased from an Apple store is pretty clearly marked on both the AppleCare
box, and every third party dealer I've bought from has either pointed this out
or offered to register it for me on the spot. Later in the article he mentions
that the Apple tech said they could resolve this issue, so it was really not a
problem and just looking for more things to rant about.

As others have pointed out, the Macbook batteries are rated for 1000 cycles,
and as this was only at 652 it should have been covered by the AppleCare
warranty for free repair. Reading between the lines of this article, it sounds
like Apple did offer to replace the battery for free in the end here, which
negates the whole rant about $400 being too expensive since the repair would
have been free.

This only leaves the fact that it takes 3 days, which in the scheme of things
doesn't seem too unreasonable. In a perfect world, yes, they could service it
while you wait. However, I once had to get an Acer laptop repaired, and it
took at least 3 weeks.

Also, 652 cycles in just 1.5 years of use is insane. That's more than a full
charge and discharge cycle every single day. I've had my Macbook for nearly 3
years and it's only at around 500 cycles.

~~~
metalliqaz
I could be wrong but I don't think "cycles" implies complete charge and
discharge every time. If I alternated between desk work and meetings all day
long, I think the laptop would record several cycles as I went on and off of
wall power.

~~~
adrianmacneil
A cycle is a full charge and discharge. If you use 50% of the battery and
charge it twice, that counts as one full cycle.

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201585)

------
kevin_thibedeau
> Next toss in the problem that Apple thought I didn’t have AppleCare on the
> machine. This is Apple’s extended warranty. This was despite me showing a
> receipt that showed that I bought both at the same time. Turns out that if
> you don’t by the machine from an Apple Store, you have to actually fill out
> some online form to register your warranty. If you buy at an Apple store,
> they automatically attach it. Anywhere else, you have to do it yourself.

It should be criminal for companies to do this to their customers. It's one
thing to require registration for a default warranty, but they shouldn't be
allowed to take money for an extended warranty and then not provide coverage
because of a pointless paperwork detail.

~~~
jws
The registration is because there exist clever amoral people.

If they didn't require you to register the warranty to a particular machine
while that machine is still under its original warranty period you could buy
one AppleCare and wait to see which of a number of machines broke, then
register it for that one. Better yet, buy a bunch of AppleCares each month
then sell them a year later on a secondary market to people with broken
computers.

If Apple accepted a receipt as proof of co-purchase, then people would print
receipts.

Maybe Apple could have a refund program for people that bought AppleCare and
failed to activate it? Their computers must know how many AppleCares go
unactivated. Perhaps it isn't a widespread problem. I suppose they have no way
of contacting the people that bought the AppleCare-in-a-box products and
didn't activate.

~~~
dkonofalski
Apple actually does have exactly this refund program. They will refund you an
AppleCare that hasn't been activated. Unfortunately, they're not going to do
that if you choose to buy it from a third-party. They're not going to refund
you for a purchase that wasn't made from them. If you buy AppleCare from an
Apple Store, they'll offer to register it for you right away.

------
thearn4
I'm curious what other people's perspectives are on the (what appears to me
anyway) dominance of Macbooks among developers these days. Is it the
convenience of a Unix-y machine with decent drivers, or something else?

~~~
mbrock
I got tired of it and looked up the best Linux laptop available, which seemed
to be the Dell XPS 13 developer edition, with a handful of contenders.

The trackpad is laughably horrible. I wonder if anyone at Dell ever tried
using it. Or maybe my fingers are weird or whatever, but I just cannot for the
life of me make the goddamn cursor go where I want. I feel like I'm arthritic.

And I haven't managed to get suspend to work properly. Amazingly, the side
effects of the brokenness is that some random subset of font characters become
garbled or replaced with other characters. I truly have no idea how that
happens but I'm very curious! Maybe there is some obscure kernel patch
somewhere, but whatever, I just shutdown and reboot...

I also haven't found the right Xorg settings to make smooth scrolling look
actually smooth, which is psychically distressing.

The sound quality is kind of crappy, since the whole chassis resonates, like
the equalization isn't set properly and/or again nobody tried using the damn
thing.

I still appreciate the laptop. Aside from these inevitable quirks, I love
having a fast Linux machine with me.

But every time I get out my MacBook, I feel relieved. I don't buy into any
magical notion of Apple, but I'm pretty grateful that the basic components of
their hardware feel like someone tried them for at least a whole day and
incremented until it was usable enough.

There are complex reasons for all of this and so on... but I really just wish
some person with a bunch of capital would just make a simple functioning
laptop that works with a plain Linux kernel. I'd pay a month's paycheck for
that.

~~~
glogla
Which edition of XPS 13 was that? The silver one or the thin bezel one?

I was told that the new one is pretty good, but it doesn't sound like that.
That's sad, because if Apple replaces rMBP with some new MacBook-like
nonsense, there won't be any reasonable laptop at all.

~~~
mbrock
It's black and the bezel is maybe 0.8cm or something... retina display (which
had its own problems, but with some DPI configuration works well, especially
after a recent Chromium update).

For full disclosure I'm not using the stock Ubuntu -- which I as a Linux nerd
found to be really pumped full of bullshit that I don't want ever.

It's possible that their special distro has magic patches that they haven't
managed to get into the mainline Linux kernel, but that doesn't impress me
much since they advertise it as a "Linux developer machine," not as a "Dell
Custom Ubuntu machine."

It also requires a proprietary WiFi driver, although I'm told some
configurations have an Intel chip that works out of the box with Linux.

I strongly believe that a developer machine advertised to work with Linux
should not require any proprietary extensions. Probably Dell doesn't care
about this very much though.

But they should, since I'm now tarnishing the reputation of their flagship dev
product in a forum full of semi-influential hackers...

That all said, I use the thing everyday and, whatever, I'm used to stuff being
broken, and I can get used to most things. That trackpad though... so
infuriating. On the plus side I'm using more keyboard navigation than ever.
(And noticing how terribly the web works if your mouse sucks.)

------
daguava
Normally I'm not one to praise Apple, but I feel a 3 day turnaround on a
process that necessitates opening the entire laptop is amazing: most other
vendors would take several weeks.

~~~
goatforce5
Agreed, and I was going to make the same point.

Apple having service centres (ie, the back of their retail stores) scattered
in convenient locations in large cities all over the world, where many repairs
can be performed while you wait or the same day, really is a treat.

Which other brands are offering a similar level of service?

------
ant6n
On my macbook pro, the battery is a bit worn down and it hard-crashes when the
Battery is at around 5%. You'd think that Apple would be able to write an OS
that detects this new low for the battery and adjust the meter correctly and
hibernate the computer, so you it doesn't cause you to accidentally loose
work. But I guess AAPL can't afford those kind of development costs; or maybe
improving the pixels on some transition animation is more important.

~~~
somewheres
I'd rather see a hard crash and know for sure that the battery is too empty to
perform work.

Stupid battery warning meters are a lie, and a waste of valuable power.

If you have enough power to show me that you don't have power, I know your
battery meter is full of shit. It means the board can still operate, and is
probably performing a small subset of tasks without my awareness, in a low
power mode.

Maybe the accelerometer is still capturing events, maybe lots of things are
happening, below the threshold of activating the monitor and expensive motors.

The greatest sin of all, though. The hands-down _WORST_ crime committed, is
when the hardware IS PLUGGED INTO A POWER SOURCE, BUT REFUSES TO POWER ON
BECAUSE "THE BATTERY NEEDS TO CHARGE FIRST."

WHAT???

~~~
matthewmacleod
_Stupid battery warning meters are a lie, and a waste of valuable power._

No, they're not. Knowing the charge of a battery accurately is essential to
managing the performance of a lithium battery; they're pretty sensitive to
this stuff.

 _If you have enough power to show me that you don 't have power, I know your
battery meter is full of shit. It means the board can still operate, and is
probably performing a small subset of tasks without my awareness, in a low
power mode._

See above. Power management systems never let a battery completely discharge;
this would destroy a lithium battery. There will always be a small amount of
reserve power available for managing battery life.

 _The greatest sin of all, though. The hands-down WORST crime committed, is
when the hardware IS PLUGGED INTO A POWER SOURCE, BUT REFUSES TO POWER ON
BECAUSE "THE BATTERY NEEDS TO CHARGE FIRST."_

Again, this is down to the sensitivity of lithium batteries. If the charge of
the battery falls below the minimum safe level, the device will charge it
before allowing you to take power. There are a couple of reasons – it's
important to make sure the battery doesn't fall into deep discharge, and to
ensure that device power isn't immediately cut off (=hard crash) if the user
subsequently disconnects the power before the device charges to acceptable
levels.

~~~
somewheres

      Again, this is down to the sensitivity of lithium 
      batteries. If the charge of the battery falls below 
      the minimum safe level, the device will charge it 
      before allowing you to take power. There are a couple 
      of reasons – it's important to make sure the battery 
      doesn't fall into deep discharge, and to ensure that 
      device power isn't immediately cut off (=hard crash) 
      if the user subsequently disconnects the power before 
      the device charges to acceptable levels.
    

No. It comes down to mediocre design, and unfortunate misconceptions, and
tunnel vision about what's worth designing for and what isn't.

1\. If the main board is receiving power, it can use some of that power.

2\. The user can pull the plug, and and cut power to the main board, and guess
what, the main board can simply stop working without trying to consume power
from a battery without enough power to operate safely.

3\. The operating system can employ an architecture that tolerates hard
faults, in the middle of code execution, and address them upon the next
successful reboot. Yeah, that's expensive to develop, and yeah, Apple
computers are expensive.

4\. With each of these preceding points in place Deep Discharge of lithium
batteries is irrelevant, because the main board is in control of whether or
not the battery is even called into action at all. With AC power, no power
needs to be sourced from the battery. Anxieties about a bricked device are
circumvented with a durably designed OS. The end.

~~~
matthewmacleod
It's more complex than you claim – I've worked with a few of these systems.

There are a lot of edge cases; consider that in some cases devices being used
a full-blast power can draw more current when operating then a charging device
can supply, meaning they can still discharge batteries even when AC power is
available. (Apple example – smaller power adapter than supplied. Still
technically works to charge, but not supply power. Or any arbitrary 500mA USB
charger.)

Yeah, I don't doubt that you could probably engineer something that works. But
would the complexity be worth it? Probably not. The fact that every modern
device (Apple and otherwise) behave this way should suggest that it's not that
easy – if it were, it wouldn't be implemented that way.

------
roflchoppa
The technician that was servicing your machine made an error that can save the
author some money. If you have proof of purchase for your applecare, and it
was bought within the 1st year, there is an option for to add applecare to
said unit. Dept on the situation, and how far the unit is out of warranty they
would have to call an agreement admin, and have it added to the unit. Of
course this could all be done in one appointment, Order the part, call the
admin, when the part comes in repair the unit.

I blame the technician for not supporting the client, now of course the client
was nuts for thinking that they could offer a turn around time for this
machine in a day with no parts in stock.

There is also the testing phase to consider which adds several hours to the
machines repair time, if not overnight.

------
sugarcube
I don't quite understand the rage. Doesn't the service agreement comment on
the time it might take? I remember from Dell there were different kinds of
packages you could buy. Because I bought some business laptop once, they
actually dispatched a technician to my office and fixed the problem on the
spot. If you need that kind of service level, you simply have to pay for it.

~~~
Daishiman
The rage is that for many lines of work (like mine), 4 days of computer
downtime is absolute unacceptable.

~~~
EvanAnderson
The "rage" seems misplaced. The OP didn't think about their needs when buying
the machine and didn't purchase the appropriate warranty service package.
Having a backup laptop would be another option, too. (I can't imagine the OP
doesn't have backup camera bodies, likely at a greater expense than having a
good-enough-to-get-by backup laptop.)

------
jakejake
There's a trade off to having a laptop that seemingly defies the capabilities
of the day - they have to glue parts and remove coverings. Apple has been
shedding ports & user-serviceable parts in laptops for years to get them
thinner and lighter.

Almost every complaint in the article has a counterpoint. Bought AppleCare but
didn't register it. Complains about the Genius Bar repair time - try finding
somebody to even speak to you in person for free about your PC laptop.

~~~
vetinari
Disclaimer: I currently own both Apple laptop (MBP13) and Lenovo laptop
(T430s).

When my previous Thinkpad T400 needed servicing - a line of bad pixels
developed on the display - the display was replaced by the next business day,
for free (under warranty). The kicker is, that I didn't buy the NBD service
and I didn't need to prove anything about the date of purchase or something -
I forgot to bring my proof of purchase and the service center looked up
everything they needed in their system.

I can't expect anything approaching level of service for the Apple laptop. In
my country, we don't have Apple Store and Genius bar, and in the past it took
the authorised repair center cca 3 weeks to do anything, including simple
swapping faulty power supply. Not because they are lazy (they are great guys
actually), but because they have to wait for spares.

~~~
dkonofalski
That would have been completely possible had he still been under the
manufacturer's warranty, as yours seems to have been. The issue here was the
he was outside the standard warranty but still within the extended warranty
that he hadn't registered. There's no way for Apple (or any company) to know
that you bought an extended warranty from a third-party unless you notify
them/register it with them. That's the crux of the issue here. If you have an
Apple warranty, you can even take it to a third-party authorized Apple center
and they can fix it. Their current systems allow them to have parts on order
within 12 hours and they don't have to hang on to your machine, if it works
(which it would for a battery issue), in order to get something that takes
longer to order.

~~~
vetinari
> That would have been completely possible had he still been under the
> manufacturer's warranty, as yours seems to have been.

Yes, mine has been under warranty. It is important to note however, that this
Thinkpad came with 3 years warranty as a standard. (Looks like they scaled
that down to 2 years since then).

> Their current systems allow them to have parts on order within 12 hours and
> they don't have to hang on to your machine,

I assume this is US-specific thing. As I wrote, I was always waiting for weeks
for the spares to arrive (once for HDD and twice for power supply). There is
only third party service center - only 8 out of 28 EU countries have Apple
Stores - and they are not allowed to stock spares. They also have to send the
swapped parts back to mothership.

------
joesmo
Assuming they resolve his Applecare issue, the cost is zero. At my Apple
store, they offered to ship the laptop back to my house directly as an option.
Yes, it does indeed take at least three days _for any repair_ on any Apple
laptop. If his business depends on your laptop so much, he should have a
backup machine to work on for a couple of days or set one up before taking it
into the shop.

Finally, how can one possibly think these machines are 'pro' quality? They are
obviously aimed at and targeted at consumers. Just because it's called pro,
doesn't mean it's intended for professionals. Apple stopped catering to
professionals a long time ago, and even things like the Macbook Pro are
obviously aimed at the end consumer. That's how they can get away with having
pretty much all custom, unserviceable parts. Don't get me wrong, they're
amazing laptops, but they're just not 'pro'.

------
larrybud
I'm no fanboy, but I've had excellent service at my local Apple store. Earlier
this year, my son's 4 year old Macbook Pro started flaking out (screen
glitches, random hanging, etc). Did not have Applecare. Took it to the Apple
store, was told it was a known problem with the video card. They said they
would repair it for free (!) but needed to ship it to the central repair
center in Texas. We dropped it off on a Saturday, and had it back in our hands
on Tuesday, all at no cost to us.

Then, just this month, the same laptop's power supply cord started fraying and
even sparked a little. Took it in to the Apple store; gave them the serial
number, and in 5 minutes, I walked out with a new power supply. Again, no cost
to me.

I couldn't have asked for better service.

~~~
N0RMAN
Me too. Got my display replaced for free within an hour. A Premium
Reseller/Service changed my logic board at no cost within 12 hours.

------
hackuser
Is the trend toward non-user-replaceable batteries related to LiPo (lithium
polymer) battery technology? My limited understanding is that LiPo batteries
store more energy/volume or energy/mass than older tech but normally have
plastic (i.e., non-rigid) packaging.

~~~
mcantelon
It's probably just cheaper to make them non-replaceable. Replaceable batteries
are becoming a fairly rare feature.

------
gambiting
That is completely not my experience. Not at all. I had to replace the battery
on my 2013 MacBook Air. The battery cost 99 British pounds(~$150) in the Apple
Store, that included the work. I made an appointment using their app in the
morning for an afternoon service, walked in, they took the laptop, I waited 20
minutes, they came back, I paid 99 pounds, got out. Easy, pain free, cheap.

Yes, you read that right - cheap. When I wanted to replace the battery on my
Dell XPS 13(2010 model?) Dell wanted 220 pounds for the battery, which was
absolutely nuts(oh and the delivery would take 3 weeks). Ended up buying a
fake one from China for 1/4 of the price.

------
kristopolous
Out of curiosity, am I alone in not wanting to use apple products because I
find such practices as this to be unethical engineered extortion to extract
more money from the consumer?

I find such things exploitive and the product's success giving a green light
for other manufacturers to re-engineer their products based on less honorable
principles.

For instance, on flip phones, batteries would eject if you dropped it in order
to absorb impact. They were designed to fly out to minimize the damage to the
device and screen. Very clever - solid engineering. However, what if if you
want to sell a phone when the battery dies or make a fall break the phone so
you can ... sell more phones! And now the industry no longer follows what was
a very smart durability focused engineering practice.

Like the laptop in the OPs article. They could have decided to adhere it in a
more clever way to make it removable instead of fusing it with glue. Screws,
latches ... lots of technology was readily available.

I'm not interested in "debating" whether this is "true", clearly I'm the only
one at this time, on this thread, that thinks this. I'm curious as to whether
I'm just some minority of one here.

~~~
DavidAdams
Apple isn't making any attempt to hide the fact that its batteries are non-
user-replaceable. And I think it's clear to any reasonable person that the
engineering of these devices isn't intended to generate revenue for the
service department, but to create an extremely slim but solid laptop. Now, I
think it's very reasonable for a consumer to decide that the'd rather have a
replaceable battery than a slimmer laptop, and therefore they should avoid
Apple laptops. So to answer your question, I think many would agree with you
that it's a bad thing, but not too many would agree that it's unethical.

~~~
kristopolous
Are you honestly saying that latches, screws, and glue each have human-
noticeably different form factor consequences?

I'm claiming that replaceability, durability, composability, these things no
longer made the cut in the design.

------
mbenjaminsmith
I went through something similar with Apple not that long ago. I had a retina
MBP that had a faulty keyboard. Half of the home row stopped working, starting
with a single key in that row. It was some type of physical failure.

I thought the computer was still in warranty but after talking to half a dozen
people at Apple they told me it was 3 years _out_ of warranty. Then they told
me they'd have to replace about half the computer which would, not
surprisingly, cost me 50% of what I paid for it.

I complained politely for about 45 minutes, talking to a few more people and
then they reactivated my warranty and asked me to take it in to a shop. I got
it back in about a week and was happy to see that they had also replaced my
battery, which for about a year had given the same warning as in the article.

While I was happy about that, and it made me like Apple more, the reality is
my computer is a business expense and in the big picture not a really large
one. Also, computers are still developing fast enough that they're not
practically a long term purchase. People talk about wanting to service
computer themselves but that's a very small percentage of the overall market.

------
wl
As of June, Apple will replace laptop batteries under 80% of design capacity
under AppleCare for free.

------
matthewmacleod
That's interesting – Macbook Pro batteries are rated for 1000 cycles. Since
this machine has only hit 652, I would expect them to replace this for no
charge – since it has not met it's published specs. But I guess I might not
have all the information here.

------
n1000
Well AppleCare is terrible IMHO. On the phone most of them have no clue. If
the issue gets escalated you have someone who understands the issue but cannot
do a thing. Then you always end up in the Apple store and they will only
become active if the issue is acknowledged by Apple and their hardware tests
find something. All other issues are basically ignored. I am having kernel
panics since 10.10.3 [1] and there is no way to make myself heard... Had to
leave my MBP with them for 5 days and they didn't replace a thing even though
it has full coverage.

[1]
[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7000724](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7000724)

~~~
Someone1234
In 2014 BootCamp was shipping on new Macbook Pros which broke Windows 8.1's
installer. The version of Bootcamp was actually newer than the newest version
available to download, but supposedly the older version worked, but you
couldn't downgrade.

Anyway I gave AppleCare a call. Told them that bootcamp version XYZ was
messing up Windows 8.1's installer and that the older version worked fine, and
asked if I could downgrade. Essentially they told me to "call Microsoft for
support with Windows." And that's all I could get out of them. Zero bootcamp
supported offered, even if it is Apple's own software.

The answer in an Apple store was (paraphrasing) "we don't recommend Bootcamp,
if you want to run Windows then buy Parallels Desktop."

PS - Took them over seven months to fix Bootcamp.

------
ksec
The story is about Apple telling you to replace your battery when it went
below 80% of its capacity.

And he say you should ignore it and continue to use it until it really die.

I think he has a point there, but i also hope the day when we don't have to
replace battery due to cycle problem.

~~~
Kluny
The day has already come and gone. Macbooks up to 2012 had serviceable
batteries. Technically not user-servicable, because you have to undo a lot of
screws and expose the guts of the machine, but quite easy in practice. 20
minute job, tops. Batteries available for $90 OEM or cheaper if you want to
risk a knockoff. Or you can run it with no battery at all and use mains power
if you want.

Since 2013, batteries are unservicable and as a result I will not be buying
any more new Macbooks. As long as 2012 models are available and continue to be
solid, usable machines, that's what I'm going with, in fact, I bought one last
week. $800 was a lot of money for a 5 year old computer, but well worth it for
me. An unservicable battery, (and, btw, unservicable RAM, it's soldered to the
motherboard), will never be worth one dime to me.

------
bad_user
I have a 13 inch MacBook Pro and while I initially liked the portability
compared to my old 15 inch laptop, I think this will be the last slim laptop
and probably the last MacBook I get. The reason is precisely because the parts
in it, like the battery or the RAM, are unserviceable.

I have had this laptop for a year and a half, I can't upgrade its RAM from 8
to 16 GB, the battery feels worn out, the Retina screen has stains on it and
the command key is discolored from pressing it too much I guess. With my old
ThinkPad these would have been non-issues.

------
franze
new (1 month old) macbook retina, 12 inch, el capitan
[http://replycam.com/i/Pasted_Image_28_10_15_17_10_1BE12B12.p...](http://replycam.com/i/Pasted_Image_28_10_15_17_10_1BE12B12.png)

fully charged battery -> 4h max ... (running mostly chrome and keynote) not
really the "all day battery life" they promised
([http://www.apple.com/macbook/design/](http://www.apple.com/macbook/design/))

~~~
bluedino
Chrome has long been known to kill battery life, hence most Mac users sticking
with Safari

~~~
russell_h
I don't know anybody who uses Safari, and everyone I know is a Mac user.

------
nickgeiger
I found this Apple page that appears to offer battery service for $129:
[https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=Unite...](https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=United_States&product=Macnotebooks)

I have the same "Service Battery" warning and I was hoping to eventually get
this service on my 13" MacBook Air.

~~~
giarc
>Pricing is for service through Apple.

Likely the $129 is for the labour portion and doesn't include the parts cost.

~~~
sosborn
Nope, that is the total price including the battery.

------
dejv
Battery of my mid-2012 Mac Air died (12% capacity) after 550 cycles, they
usually just swap the batteries for free, but I bought my computer while
living abroad, so no luck.

After some thoughts, I just bought replacement battery, two custom
screwdrivers and changed the batter by myself (+ upgraded the hard drive) in
about 15 minutes. Replacement battery cost around 150 USD here in EU and it is
very easy to do.

~~~
kawera
I did the same with my 2010 MBA after it died at around 850 cycles. Easy to do
in a few minutes and working flawlessly since.

------
sxcurry
It's pretty clear when you buy this laptop that the battery isn't user
serviceable. You might be happier buying a Dell or Lenovo.

------
rasz_pl
If you wanted easily serviceable battery you would buy business line DELL or
HP, but you didnt. You wanted a powerful slim status symbol.

What a whining entitled brat :/ If there was no warning about battery
degradation you can be sure he would be making blog posts about losing his
work because laptop didnt last whole photo editing session.

------
protomyth
"Next toss in the problem that Apple thought I didn’t have AppleCare on the
machine"

I had that happen on a machine bought through Apple education. Had to argue we
always buy AppleCare. I was rather annoyed.

------
toyg
Apple moved the MacBookPro line to this hardware design in July 2012 -- I know
because it was the first MBP I've ever bought. It was well-publicized at the
time that things like battery and memory had become basically unserviceable.
There were teardowns all over the internet less than a week from unveiling.

This guy comes up almost two years later (the post is from May 2014) and
starts ranting...? It's like buying a huge SUV then rant that you cannot find
on-street parking spaces in central Paris. Honestly, the only thing this post
reveals is how clueless some "experts" are about the expensive tools they buy.

------
arprocter
Replacing an integral part of an expensive computer was expensive?

I would hate to be this guy's mechanic

~~~
rasz_pl
Check light came on so I continued to drive for 3 months while ignoring it and
complaining loudly. What do you mean fuel pump is in the fuel tank and it
needs to go to the shop? Cant you swap it on a parking lot, like right now?? I
have places to be!11. $400? Thats as much as I charge for half an hour of one
of my photo shoots, and you are just a dirty wrench monkey! Its not like you
repair anything, you said it yourself its just a part exchange.

This is how some apple owners act when they come for "new phone case" with
iphone 6 that has been stepped on.

------
8r4n
Batteries are the reason I stopped buying laptops. Pry my desktop from my cold
dead hands.

------
gherkin0
I like how their battery diagnostic tool has Classic Mac OS Platinum UI
widgets.

------
jessaustin
This seems to explain somewhat the "safari is the new IE" phenomenon. If using
the battery has such drawbacks, one might well wish to avoid doing so, web
standards be damned.

------
KiDD
This is a couple years old...

